# Club of 1000-year-old cities started



## rossie1977 (Jul 17, 2007)

dublin, ireland

celebrated its millenium year in 1988, they even had special mugs made 










source:flickr.com


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## Adrian12345Lugo (May 12, 2008)

klamedia said:


> Many cities in Africa that have been renamed or were just considered villages. Cairo and Addis Abbaba which may be up to 100,000 years old(take that) come to mind with Ethiopia being the longest running contiguous civilization in the world. And many many cities in what we call the Americas like the previously mentioned Mexico City formerly *Tenochtitlan which was a major city with straight streets when Europe was still groping around in caves*.





klamedia said:


> And you're refuting the facts with what? Hopefully not any European racist based history are you? Oh I get it. If it doesn't jive with European discriminatory lies that promote nothing more than white supremacy like "Western Europe wasn't anywhere near being a civilized people during the glory days of the Mayan" then you're considered "over zealous" and "hysterical". *When the Olmecs were trading with Africa* the Western Europeans thought that if you sailed too far you'd fall off of the Earth.
> 
> .





Captain Obvious said:


> No it wasn't. As previously mentioned, Tenochtitlan was founded in the 1300s. While some mesoamerican cities were older, few of them have been continually occupied.
> 
> *While the Mayan and Olmec civilizations are quite old, they were not older or more advanced than such contemporaneous European civilizations as the Etruscans or the Mycenaean Greeks*. Furthermore, by the time the Mayans reached their zenith, Europe was already well into the Roman period.
> 
> So it is completely false to suggest that Mesoamerica had developed cities while Europe was still "in caves." That's either ignorance or willful racism on the part of overzealous Chicano scholars.



WTF are you people talking about???


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## dollaztx (May 2, 2009)

Adrian12345Lugo said:


> WTF are you people talking about???


Whether or not Tenochtitlan is old enough to be included in the 1,000 yr old club.


By the way I wouldnt say Europe was living in the caves but Tenochtitlan did have many innovations that European cities lacked. For example a good drainage system and impecable streets. At least that's how the Spanish described it. The major thing that Mexico fell behind at (or rather it's citizens) was a lack of defenses against disease.


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## max_cool (Jun 15, 2007)

The classical Maya period (It's zenith) was around the late 850's ad to the early 900's ad. It's very safe to say that Rome, had been and still was as civilized if not more so. Of course technologically speaking Western Europe was more advanced in many, if not most ways than were the Aztec or the Inca when the civilizations, to put it politely, clashed in the 16th century. 

My personal opinion is that the American civilizations never stood a chance because they never had a legitimate beast of burden, they didn't have horses and/or oxen for travel, farm work, and transportation of goods. How is one supposed to transport large amounts of goods when there is nothing but Llamas and people to carry them? How is one supposed to conduct business 20 miles from home if they must walk the whole way? How is one supposed to produce gross excess quantities of crops when there is nothing with which to till the fields? It was a hindrance to commerce and thus a hindrance to generation of wealth. Wealth generally begets wealth and with more wealth comes more leisure time to educate oneself which in turn spurs on further advancement and generation of wealth. All of this snowball effect cannot happen if one cannot sell his or her product (get it to market) and until the 20th century, product almost always meant material good.

Anyway, to suggest that the Classical Maya or the Aztec and Inca civilizations were more advanced than Western Europe is disingenuous, particularly when discussing the Aztec and Inca. It would be like me saying that Arizona State University is one of the best Universities in the nation because it has really good engineering, journalism, and business schools.


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## Adrian12345Lugo (May 12, 2008)

dollaztx said:


> Whether or not Tenochtitlan is old enough to be included in the 1,000 yr old club.
> 
> 
> By the way I wouldnt say Europe was living in the caves but Tenochtitlan did have many innovations that European cities lacked. For example a good drainage system and impecable streets. At least that's how the Spanish described it. The major thing that Mexico fell behind at (or rather it's citizens) was a lack of defenses against disease.


ofcourse the people of europe werent living in caves during the times of tenochtitlan...the thing that mesoamericans lacked the most was outside contact with other civilizations
which of course wasnt their fault....i was just disagreeing with parts of yours and klamedia's statements


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## blogen_ (May 8, 2009)

RawLee said:


> Does it have to be continous by name and population? If not,then Aquincum(Budapest), Arrabona(Győr), Brigetio(Komárom), Savaria(Szombathely). All were roman cities,abandoned during the fall of the empire,but resettled later.


Géza founded Esztergom in the 960 years. The second oldest Hungarian city Székesfehérvár, the grand prince founded it in 970.


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## Adrian12345Lugo (May 12, 2008)

max_cool said:


> The classical Maya period (It's zenith) was around the late 850's ad to the early 900's ad. It's very safe to say that Rome, had been and still was as civilized if not more so. Of course technologically speaking Western Europe was more advanced in many, if not most ways than were the Aztec or the Inca when the civilizations, to put it politely, clashed in the 16th century.
> 
> My personal opinion is that the American civilizations never stood a chance because they never had a legitimate beast of burden, they didn't have horses and/or oxen for travel, farm work, and transportation of goods. How is one supposed to transport large amounts of goods when there is nothing but Llamas and people to carry them? How is one supposed to conduct business 20 miles from home if they must walk the whole way? How is one supposed to produce gross excess quantities of crops when there is nothing with which to till the fields? It was a hindrance to commerce and thus a hindrance to generation of wealth. Wealth generally begets wealth and with more wealth comes more leisure time to educate oneself which in turn spurs on further advancement and generation of wealth. All of this snowball effect cannot happen if one cannot sell his or her product (get it to market) and until the 20th century, product almost always meant material good.
> 
> Anyway, to suggest that the Classical Maya or the Aztec and Inca civilizations were more advanced than Western Europe is disingenuous, particularly when discussing the Aztec and Inca. It would be like me saying that Arizona State University is one of the best Universities in the nation because it has really good engineering, journalism, and business schools.


the maya classical age was from 250-900 AD even before that the largest city ever built by the maya flourished from around 500 BC - 100 AD which of course clearly contradicts the maya classical dates of 250-900AD

agriculture and trade did not pose a problem in Mesoamerica..though it would have been a hell of a lot better if they had beast of burden...

mesoamericans were more advanced than old world civilizations in many ways(number systems that utilized the number zero ,far more accurate calendars vulcanization and processing of rubber)...then again old world civilizations also had many advances that mesoamericans could only dream of....comparing the two is pointless....people tend to forget that Mesoamerica had absolutely no out side influence from other cultures no one to trade/exchange knowledge with(the same goes for Andean civilizations of south america)


anyways there are several cities in mexico that are over 1,000 years old...Cholula for example..founded around 500 BC..and ticul founded around 700BC...though i dont think we have cities that are over 3,000 years old that are still inhabited


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## blogen_ (May 8, 2009)

dollaztx said:


> By the way I wouldnt say Europe was living in the caves but Tenochtitlan did have many innovations that European cities lacked. For example a good drainage system and impecable streets. At least that's how the Spanish described it. The major thing that Mexico fell behind at (or rather it's citizens) was a lack of defenses against disease.


The most advanced Americans lived in the early metal age. The European conquerors lived in the Iron Age more than two thousand years. On the swampy countries than Niederlande the Europeans built drainage. The Aztecs lived in a marsh, not miracle, how their city was supplied with drainage. We had water pipes and pumps in medieval Buda. It was necessary to bring water into the mountain city. Example.

Tenochtitlan resembles the early Eurasian cities than Mohenjo Daro and not onto the Iron Age european settlements. The Aztec society was backward compared to it. The European technology was much better, and the European society more complex. Mostly in economic and cultural things.


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## purenyork123 (May 22, 2009)

Europe doesnt even have a meaning...honestly, some American scholar even said if Iran was a christian nation along with middle east it would be classified as EUROPE.
The Greeks, I always though of them as near easterners like the Tuks.

And I learned in my history class that mesoamerica was far advanced than what we think of. Usually in History, we'll learn of southern european/middle eastern/ the Indus valley/Nile/yellow river, china cities.


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## dark_shadow1 (May 24, 2009)

Jerusalem has been a city for around 4,800 years.
And there are many cities which are more than 1,000 years old. I can count at least 20 in Israel alone.


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## Metropolitan (Sep 21, 2004)

purenyork123 said:


> Europe doesnt even have a meaning...honestly, some American scholar even said if Iran was a christian nation along with middle east it would be classified as EUROPE.


The concept of Europe has been invented by the greeks as a name for the Northern shore of the Mediterranean sea. Asia was the Eastern shore of the Med sea and Africa was its southern shore.

Nowadays, Europe is geographically speaking a peninsula, so i disagree about your religious-based classification. Europe does have a geographical meaning. You only need to check a map and you'll find out.



> The Greeks, I always though of them as near easterners like the Turks.


It's quite obvious that Greece is on the European peninsula whereas Turkey isn't. However, both countries of course share many similar traits resulting of a common History of 2,000 years (Byzantines, then Ottomans).

We could find a very similar example with Andalucia and Morocco, which both also clearly have common cultural traits. However, if we start looking cultural similarities from a country to another, then that would encompass the whole world in the end.

Considering Greece as Near-Eastern sounds wrong to me, for the obvious reason that Greeks themselves invented the concept of Orient as a denomination of their Anatolian settlements, which were located East of the Egean Sea.

This being said, Turkey and Greece do share a region in common, but that would actually be the Mediterranean area.


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## klamedia (Nov 21, 2005)

dollaztx said:


> The major thing that Mexico fell behind at (or rather it's citizens) was a lack of defenses against disease.


That's like shooting me in the back and complaining about me not being able to get up. 

Also the native people didn't even have a concept of land ownernship so running around talking about the concept of wealth and passage of wealth from one generation to another is all built around the concept of land ownership, owning the Earth...imagine that? 

Once again, if you're relying on European/white supremist history solely as your well of knowledge, good luck.


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## purenyork123 (May 22, 2009)

Yes, Europe originally did have a meaning in terms of its location (the western peninsula of Asia) but today Europe extends far from her boundaries, for example Azerbaijan, former soviet states, and many other countries are now included as European.


Also after emergence of Islam and her constant ever growing empire on european land by the Turks and the Moors, the term Europe became a lot more prominent among Europeans of all ethnic background to counter "these disbelievers and islamic mutts (even today any white ethnic european muslim is considered that)" who were trying to take over "christian, pure white Europe." Read some ancient texts of the pope or for any christian leader.

Now I am not crying out "racism" because everyone is racist, subtle or more openly, but I am saying Christianity, threat of Islam, and the middle easterners gave a great meaning to Europe.

PS This is what I learned in my classes...but if someone has a better argument then go for it. I want to learn.


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## cjav (Jun 24, 2006)

Guess my city is a latecomer, she was granted city rights in 1299, but was it was revoked shortly after and was granted the current rights in 1340.
But in ancient history my country wasn't to densely populated, being a big swamp and all. There were roman cities but they disappeared permanently, same with some other settlements in the early middle ages, such as Dorestad.


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## LANative (Aug 28, 2005)

Im suprised no one mentioned Cairo, Egypt. The city was founded in 969 A.D. making it 1040 years old. And Cairo has the worlds oldest standing structures the Giza Pyramids.


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## DocentX (Apr 16, 2003)

Most of the major cities in *Poland* has over 1000 years old, just to mention *Krakow, Poznan, Gdansk, Wroclaw.*

BTW Warsaw is a bit younger.


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## Hasse78 (Dec 5, 2006)

Only 243 years until Stockholm enters this club. Atleast since the name Stockholm is supposed to be 757 years old.


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## autobahnracer (Aug 3, 2007)

*Sofia, Bulgaria*



tq said:


> I think the club will take only cities that enjoy capital status under consideration.


Then i would like to say something about the city i live in  

Sofia is the capital ot Bulgaria since 1879 (before that the capital was Veliko Tarnovo).
It's history can be traced back some 7000 years.
Sofia has had several names in the different periods of its existence: Serdika, Sredets and finally Sofia. 
The well preserved town walls and ruins of the fortress from antiquity date back before the 7th century BC, so this is a clue that by this time it has been a city ( no villages have town walls and fortress ))) )

During the Roman Empire age, Constantine the Great called Serdica (Sofia) "My Rome" and the city had the status of an important administrative centre in the eastern part of the roman empire.


For more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofia


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## TugaMtl (May 2, 2009)

Lisbon was founded in 1200 bc by the Phoenicians and became Portugal's capital in 1255.


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## dollaztx (May 2, 2009)

klamedia said:


> That's like shooting me in the back and complaining about me not being able to get up.
> 
> Also the native people didn't even have a concept of land ownernship so running around talking about the concept of wealth and passage of wealth from one generation to another is all built around the concept of land ownership, owning the Earth...imagine that?
> 
> Once again, if you're relying on European/white supremist history solely as your well of knowledge, good luck.


What's so "white supremist" about what I posted. All I said was that the lack of defenses to some diseases was a major contributor to Mexico's conquest. Nearly everyone knows that today as opposed to the past when they thought that it was a weaker race and gods will why the people were dying in mass numbers.


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## oduguy1999 (Jul 27, 2004)

Cadiz, Spain is the oldest city in southwestern europe, It was called Gadir("walled stronghold") by the Phoenicians when it was founded and was later called Gadeira by the Greeks and Qadis by the Moors and Arabs.


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## klamedia (Nov 21, 2005)

LANative said:


> Im suprised no one mentioned Cairo, Egypt. The city was founded in 969 A.D. making it 1040 years old. And Cairo has the worlds oldest standing structures the Giza Pyramids.


"Cairo" and that settled area is much much older than that. As an extension of Nubia which is the oldest part of human society, Cairo may have been "founded" in 969 AD from a Judeo-Christian perspective but of course the area existed long before Abraham even started his whole thing about Yaweh. So much of our history is from if not a European/Christian perspective it's from a Jewish perspective therefore it is severly skewed.


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## xerxesjc28 (Mar 3, 2008)

> My personal opinion is that the American civilizations never stood a chance because they never had a legitimate beast of burden, they didn't have horses and/or oxen for travel, farm work, and transportation of goods. How is one supposed to transport large amounts of goods when there is nothing but Llamas and people to carry them? How is one supposed to conduct business 20 miles from home if they must walk the whole way? How is one supposed to produce gross excess quantities of crops when there is nothing with which to till the fields? It was a hindrance to commerce and thus a hindrance to generation of wealth. Wealth generally begets wealth and with more wealth comes more leisure time to educate oneself which in turn spurs on further advancement and generation of wealth. All of this snowball effect cannot happen if one cannot sell his or her product (get it to market) and until the 20th century, product almost always meant material good.





> The major thing that Mexico fell behind at (or rather it's citizens) was a lack of defenses against disease.


These two are actually connected. The reason being that the defense against diseases (like measles) were acquired by Europeans because they had lived so closely to farm animals and over time acquired immunity to them. Also in Africa although they had immunity to many diseases they had no good beast of burden unlike Eurasia which had horses. You just simply can't ride a Zebra because they will bite you and never let go!!!

Another reason has to do with food, the feasibility of transporting the growing of food from area to area. This is much easier in Eurasia since the continent mostly goes from East to West which means there is less change in climate than in the Americas or Africa which are more north to south. 

Another is warfare. In Europe and in Asia there was fierce competition and never ending warfare which helped to advance technology. This also sometimes ended like in China where at some point they became technology backwards due to the fact that China had been unified and had less competition. Another great example is Japan, where they all decided at some point not to use firearms which made them also technologically backwards. Where as if any European country had decided not to use firearms and instead only swords they would have quickly been conquered. 





There are I believe a few more reasons but if you want it summarized as to why one civilization came to dominate another it basically has to to with the land they were given and the advantages it gives.

If you want to read up more on this look up "Guns, Germs And Steel" by Jared Diamond. It really is an eye opener and a great way to defeat any sort of stereo types about certain peoples.


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## AcesHigh (Feb 20, 2003)

klamedia said:


> Cairo and Addis Abbaba which may be up to 100,000 years old


thats pure bullshit


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## AcesHigh (Feb 20, 2003)

Adrian12345Lugo said:


> the thing that mesoamericans lacked the most was outside contact with other civilizations


and the wheel... and bronze or steel... and cranes... and gunpowder... and world maps... and ships... etc, etc, etc.


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## Ukraine (Apr 2, 2009)

AcesHigh said:


> thats pure bullshit


why not?? i think it might be possible..


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## AcesHigh (Feb 20, 2003)

Ukraine said:


> why not?? i think it might be possible..


I dont think it might be possible. The AREA of egypt might have been inhabited, but NOT permanent settlements... agriculture still didnt exist at that time!


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## Adrian12345Lugo (May 12, 2008)

AcesHigh said:


> *and the wheel... *and bronze or steel... and cranes... and gunpowder... and world maps... and ships... etc, etc, etc.






























as you can see the wheel was *independently* invented in mesoamerica…..something only a few places in the world can claim today

you obviously dont understand the significance and how great a luxury it was to have other civilizations to trade knowledge with or to simply be influenced by…..…just because a civilization has and uses a certain technology or concept does not mean they invented it

take gun powder as an example……it was used by people of the middle and far east, europe north africa…yet the only people who are credited with the creation and invention of gunpowder are the chinese…im sure the same could be said about steel, cranes, maps, etc etc

if mesoamericans lacked a certain technology/concept it was because of their isolation…..so please let me know of a civilization or a region in this world that independently invented/developed all of their technologies/concepts plus all of the technologies/concepts developed in mesoamerica that no other people in the world had


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## klamedia (Nov 21, 2005)

AcesHigh said:


> thats pure bullshit


Refute it then.


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## klamedia (Nov 21, 2005)

AcesHigh said:


> I dont think it might be possible. The AREA of egypt might have been inhabited, but NOT permanent settlements... agriculture still didnt exist at that time!


What white supremist told you that? West Africa where many people who were transported into the Americas were from agrigarian societies, farmers. Many incoming slaves were already farmers that's one of the reasons why they were so coveted. What? You think the Spanish or Dutch taught them how to plant okra? Africa invented agriculture!:lol:


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## klamedia (Nov 21, 2005)

Adrian12345Lugo said:


> as you can see the wheel was *independently* invented in mesoamerica…..something only a few places in the world can claim today


:lol::lol::lol:^^
That shut them right up! The continued lies of the Judeo-Christian world and the fools who are stupid enough to believe them. The MesoAmericans didn't have a wheel but they invented a zero!:lol::lol:

Sad how white supremist thought is still so pervasive today. Guess if you actually told the truth about the Europeans and what they did to the original Americans without making the "indians" sound as though they were backwards and waiting on the shore for Cortez to come and rescue them from their ineptitude, well....................


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## Marathaman (Jul 24, 2007)

Adrian12345Lugo said:


> as you can see the wheel was *independently* invented in mesoamerica…..something only a few places in the world can claim today
> 
> you obviously dont understand the significance and how great a luxury it was to have other civilizations to trade knowledge with or to simply be influenced by…..…just because a civilization has and uses a certain technology or concept does not mean they invented it
> 
> ...


:cheers: Thank you very much. I fully support you!


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## klamedia (Nov 21, 2005)

*They Came Before Columbus*








Ivan Van Sertima

One of many studies done on the MesoAmericans contact with other peoples across the oceans, pre-Colombian history.


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## TugaMtl (May 2, 2009)

klamedia said:


> What white supremist told you that? West Africa where many people who were transported into the Americas were from agrigarian societies, farmers. Many incoming slaves were already farmers that's one of the reasons why they were so coveted. What? You think the Spanish or Dutch taught them how to plant okra? Africa invented agriculture!:lol:


There were no human civilization in 100,000 bc. At that time human were nomads and hunter-gatherers. Agriculture began in like 10,000 bc.


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## AcesHigh (Feb 20, 2003)

Adrian12345Lugo said:


> as you can see the wheel was *independently* invented in mesoamerica…..something only a few places in the world can claim today
> 
> you obviously dont understand the significance and how great a luxury it was to have other civilizations to trade knowledge with or to simply be influenced by…..…just because a civilization has and uses a certain technology or concept does not mean they invented it
> 
> ...


the point is that they lacked those things. Besides, the americas were occupied by many civilizations. If you want to say the americas developed something on their own, you can say "the old world" developed something on their own too.


as for the Olmed toys above, children toys wheels are not considered "wheel proper", and its just stupid that they never realized all the other uses for a wheel besides children´s toys!


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## AcesHigh (Feb 20, 2003)

klamedia said:


> What white supremist told you that? West Africa where many people who were transported into the Americas were from agrigarian societies, farmers. Many incoming slaves were already farmers that's one of the reasons why they were so coveted. What? You think the Spanish or Dutch taught them how to plant okra? Africa invented agriculture!:lol:


are you playing idiot or what??? We are talking about 100 THOUSAND before Christ. NO HUMAN had invented agriculture yet... there were not even **** SAPIENS SAPIENS back then!!!! Later than that, around 75,000 BC **** sapiens was almost extinct, and you say bullshit like Egyptians having cities and agriculture back in 100,000 BC???hno:

Take your head out of you ass before calling me an white supremacist. At least I know some history. Btw, "white" people didnt even existed back in 100 thousand BC...I dont think **** sapiens had even LEFT Africa before, and other continents were inhabited only by other **** species, like Neandertals and **** Habilis!


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## AcesHigh (Feb 20, 2003)

klamedia said:


> Refute it then.


you want me to prove a negative?? How about you prove the non-existance of the Loch-Ness monster??

The burden of the proof that Cairo existed 100 thousand years ago, before even agriculture!!! Even evidence for regular use of fire only dates to no more than 100 thousand years ago!


"Transition to civilization
Main articles: Neolithic revolution and Cradle of Civilization

For more details on this topic, see History of the world.

The rise of agriculture, and domestication of animals, led to stable human settlements.

Until c. 10,000 years ago, most humans lived as hunter-gatherers. They generally lived in small nomadic groups known as band societies. The advent of agriculture prompted the Neolithic Revolution, when access to food surplus led to the formation of permanent human settlements, the domestication of animals and the use of metal tools. Agriculture encouraged trade and cooperation, and led to complex society. Because of the significance of this date for human society, it is the epoch of the Holocene calendar or Human Era.

About 6,000 years ago, the first proto-states developed in Mesopotamia, and in the Sahara/Nile and the Indus Valleys. Military forces were formed for protection, and government bureaucracies for administration. States cooperated and competed for resources, in some cases waging wars. Around 2,000–3,000 years ago, some states, such as Persia, India, China, Rome, and Greece, developed through conquest into the first expansive empires. Influential religions, such as Judaism, originating in the Middle East, and Hinduism, a religious tradition that originated in South Asia, also rose to prominence at this time."


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## klamedia (Nov 21, 2005)

White supremists have become so touchy since WWII. Actually I never called you a white supremist, I only referred to white supremist thought that is the standard teaching in most countries in the "developed" world. But until you calm down and stop with the insults we can't really have a discussion. Just to play nice I'll chalk up your uncontrolled aggression that you people are so famous for and blame it on that little romp you had with the Neanderthal after leaving Africa, perhaps the world's greatest untold love affair.


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## AcesHigh (Feb 20, 2003)

gee, you are the one sounding racist here, Klamedia. Bohooo... white people!!! Funny that you dont even know if I am white or not... :|

of course, you need to change subjects (and avoid admiting you were wrong) since you were taught a lesson about world history after you came up with the 100 thousand year old Cairo theory of yours, and when I disputed that you started an idiotic rant about me being influenced by white supramacists (i guess you consider scientists to be white supremacists uh) and to counterbalance what I said about cities not existing 100 thousand years ago you started talking about events 1 thousand years ago...


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

What about Rome, the eternal city?
It was the first mega city in human history, passed 1,000,000 inh. at the end of 1st century. London passed 1,000,000 inh. 1700 years later!


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## PD (Jun 11, 2007)

Some of you anti-white's harping on about 'white-supremacist' do yourselves no favours by displaying to all your own obvious racism.

btw I am half-Pakistani, half-armenian so calm down before you try and shoot me down as a 'white supremacist' for my comment.


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## capslock (Oct 9, 2002)

GEwinnen said:


> What about Rome, the eternal city?
> It was the first mega city in human history, passed 1,000,000 inh. at the end of 1st century. London passed 1,000,000 inh. 1700 years later!


No! That is simply a myth perpetuated by black-hating white supremacists. There was actually a city of 2 million in Africa 500,000 years ago trading with the world via early forms of jet aircraft. I don't have to prove it, because you'd know it yourself if only you weren't blinded by the hate-filled propaganda of blatently racist scientists and so-called 'historians'.

You think it's a coincidence that all those buildings are white?!


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## AcesHigh (Feb 20, 2003)

capslock said:


> No! That is simply a myth perpetuated by black-hating white supremacists. There was actually a city of 2 million in Africa 500,000 years ago trading with the world via early forms of jet aircraft. I don't have to prove it, because you'd know it yourself if only you weren't blinded by the hate-filled propaganda of blatently racist scientists and so-called 'historians'.
> 
> You think it's a coincidence that all those buildings are white?!


LMAO

but... you are wrong... and you are a white supremacist, otherwise you would admit there were huge megalopolises in Africa 17 billion years ago, about 4 billion years before the Big Bang.


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## GENIUS LOCI (Nov 18, 2004)

I think in Europe alone there are many thousands of cities which could clame an over 1000 years 'age'

For istance in Italy pratically every city and town is about 2k years old 
One of the 'youngest' cities is one of the most famous: Venice. Founded only in V century 

Anyway apparently Rome had more than 2 mio inhabitants during I century
I've no clue about African cities of the Pleistocene


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## AAL (Sep 13, 2007)

capslock said:


> There was actually a city of 2 million in Africa 500,000 years ago trading with the world via early forms of jet aircraft. I don't have to prove it, because you'd know it yourself if only you weren't blinded by the hate-filled propaganda of blatently racist scientists and so-called 'historians'.
> 
> You think it's a coincidence that all those buildings are white?!


Stop taking those drugs NOW man! :badnews:

And I am not racist! I would give the exact same answer if you claimed that for Athens or Rome or another ancient European city...


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## AAL (Sep 13, 2007)

klamedia said:


> And please don't bring up the Greeks. It may be "Europe" today but it wasn't Europe in the historical sense it was more Eurasian if anything. An outgrowth of the grand civilizations of lower Asia or what we call today the Middle East.


No. This could be correct if you talked about Minoan Cretans, whose language was different (elements of which have, jowever, been incorporated in Greek) and they were probably pro-Indoeuropean. They were not "an outgrowth" but they were clearly influenced by the Egyptians through trade. But, since around 1200 BC, ie since the Mycenean age, Greeks have been speaking Greek, and language is one of the basic constituents of a people's culture. Yes, it is clearly changed a lot since then, but still it has changed with a much slower rate than most languages. I mean Homeric greek (circa 800 BC) is VERY difficult for the non-specialist (one recognizes many words but has difficulty understanding whole sentences), but greek from, say, 2000 years ago is EASY. The Gospels are written in greek and the original texts can be easily understood by the average Greek today.

Greeks invented the concept of the Orient as something to their east. Also, their art and philosophy clearly makes them an integral part of Europe. It makes no sense to say "It may be "Europe" today but it wasn't Europe in the historical sense ".


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## crlos83 (Feb 14, 2007)

*Cadiz, Spain*

CADIZ
This city is the oldest city in Western Europe founded in 1100 BC... the greeks said that the city was founded by Hercules... getting closer to the 3000 year-old mark! 

Toledo prior to 1st century BC 

Barcelona 3rd century BC

Valencia 138 BC 

Zaragoza officially founded in the year 25 BC

Madrid was officially founded my the Arabs on the 9th century (800 aD)

etc... There are a lot of European cities 1000 plus... this is just a top of my head compilation of the spanish ones...


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## MIBO (Aug 20, 2008)

In Japan I would say there are a bunch as well, well known ones: *Kyoto and Nara.*

About the white-supremacist thing, I think it points more towards a black-supremacy with all that pseudo-history. Reminds me a lot to the Nazis and their invented glorious history of a lost arian civilization.

And about Cairo and Nubia....Nubia has been for the most most part of Ancient Egypt's History a backwater which produced gold and brought exotic animals to the country. For an ancient Egyptian, Egypt proper ended in Aswan. 

But well if people are happy believing that Egyptian were black. So where Hebrews, Moses or even Jesus, my pleasure.


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## Eddard Stark (Mar 31, 2008)

As Genius said, basically every town of Italy has more than 1000 years. There are a few exceptions among the 100 province capitals, let's name them

*L'Aquila*: founded in the XIII century by Frederick the II, now unfortunately famous for the earthquake that hit it.

*Alessandria*: founded in the XII century and named after the Pope (not the other Alexander  )

*Latina*: founded by Mussolini in a previously swamp area

If I am not wrong all the other 100 province capitals have more than 1000 thousand years, together with hundreds, thousands other smaller cities

Moreover, almost all of them have actually more than 2000 years since they have been around from the roman times, most of the italian cities (unlike other european ones) were never abandoned after the fall of the empire.

A few cities if the south pass even the 3000 years mark. For example Chieti was founded in 1247 BC (earlier than Cadiz  )


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

MIBO said:


> And about Cairo and Nubia....Nubia has been for the most most part of Ancient Egypt's History a backwater which produced gold and brought exotic animals to the country. For an ancient Egyptian, Egypt proper ended in Aswan.


That "backwater" controlled Egypt proper for over a century and was heavily influential upon it until both of them fell into obscurity.


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## chicagogeorge (Nov 30, 2004)

List of cities by time of continuous habitation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_time_of_continuous_habitation


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## MIBO (Aug 20, 2008)

Xusein said:


> That "backwater" controlled Egypt proper for over a century and was heavily influential upon it until both of them fell into obscurity.


Yes, I know about the "black Pharaoh" but, one century is nothing for over 3000 years of Egyptin story, plus Nubians were extremely Egyptianized...look at the constructions in Meroe...and Cairo/Memphis was a well established city before the nubian (kingdom of Kush) rule during the 25th Dinasty. To say anything else is a bold lie....but whatever...

and yes....it was a backwater....as a generalization, with a puntual time of splendour and power....but still, a backwater. Again, compare me Luxor or Gizeh with Meroe...


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## klamedia (Nov 21, 2005)

Still on here spouting out what you've been taught by rote in your high school history classes? A "black pharaoh"?! How sad that you have been brainwashed to the point that you have to bring yourself to use a modifier for "pharaoh". I guess all of the other ones were non-black, right? Goodness, is that the kind of crap that's been forced upon you? 

Anyway, carry along with your brainwashed and predictable spouting out of _his-stories_. Mr. Dietz would be very proud of you!

And to the Pakmenian, I would never call you a white supremist when sellout just sounds so much better.

Still nothing on Ivan Van Sertima?

http://www.startribune.com/world/15860017.html

Anyway carry on until the next time, it may be a while. This thread is only of passing interest to me.


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## MIBO (Aug 20, 2008)

^^ in high school we do not learn so deeply about Ancient Egypt. And I don't see the problem in saying "black Pharaoh", ok, "Nubian Pharaoh" if it makes you happier....

And yes, we are all brainwashed by a hidden racist white-supremacist force.....give me a break! I am sorry if you dont like the way history is, if you have the need to reinvent history in order to make it more african-centric, be my guest, however that only speaks of your complexes. And funny, many Black Africans claiming "whites" are nazis, yet when you people are racist (with the "the whites here....." "the whites did this....." "the white people are..." and believe me I know enough black Africans to have a fairly good arrange of opinions etc etc) you are NOT being racists. Ooooof course.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

MIBO said:


> Yes, I know about the "black Pharaoh" but, one century is nothing for over 3000 years of Egyptin story, plus Nubians were extremely Egyptianized...look at the constructions in Meroe...and Cairo/Memphis was a well established city before the nubian (kingdom of Kush) rule during the 25th Dinasty. To say anything else is a bold lie....but whatever...
> 
> and yes....it was a backwater....as a generalization, with a puntual time of splendour and power....but still, a backwater. Again, compare me Luxor or Gizeh with Meroe...


Backwater? In that era, compared to many other areas, Nubia was relatively advanced, by the time that the Nubians conquer Egypt (before being chased back south by the Assyrians), the differences between the two were indistinguishable. Although not as advanced as Egypt was overall, I think that you are just brushing it off a bit too harshly. 

Oh, and this whole "Black Pharoah" and racial stuff that you are talking about, never implied anything of it.


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## Dancing Banana (Jul 8, 2009)

lol @ klamedia


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## Kapow32 (Jan 26, 2009)

klamedia, care to produce any evidence that shows agriculture existed 100,000 years ago?


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## kato2k8 (May 4, 2008)

Official founding or first mention of German state capitals, only those older than 1000 years:

13 BC - Mainz (as Roman castle _Mogontiacum_)
15 AD - Wiesbaden (as Roman castle _Aquae Matticorum_)
85 AD - Stuttgart (as Roman castle) [history murky for 260 AD to 700 AD, but presumed continuous]
742 AD - Erfurt
787 AD - Bremen
832 AD - Hamburg
805 AD - Magdeburg
993 AD - Potsdam
999 AD - Saarbrücken

The other 7 state capitals were founded in the middle ages.

As for the other older cities...
Trier (Augusta Treverorum, roman settlement 16 BC) by saga was founded "1300 years before Rome", i.e. around 2050-2000 BC. Of course the founder was also supposed to be a Assyrian prince ...
In Worms (Borbetomagus), graves from at least 1800 BC have been found, possibly up to 2400 BC, and the area was most likely definitely settled after 500 BC (Romans took part of the name from the previous Celtic Latene settlement).
Speyer (Spira) had at least five separate finds of a settlement in its city area dating back to around 1500 BC. Definitely settled since 200 BC, with the Romans reorganizing everything starting around 10 BC.

Most cities outside the area occupied by the Romans, while they might have had Celtic or earlier settlements, did not have any sort of semi-provable continuity up to today. A lot of places where Roman castles founded "modern cities" had previous Celtic settlements dating back to up to 500 BC.


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## MIBO (Aug 20, 2008)

Xusein said:


> Backwater? In that era, compared to many other areas, Nubia was relatively advanced, by the time that the Nubians conquer Egypt (before being chased back south by the Assyrians), the differences between the two were indistinguishable. Although not as advanced as Egypt was overall, I think that you are just brushing it off a bit too harshly.
> 
> Oh, and this whole "Black Pharoah" and racial stuff that you are talking about, never implied anything of it.


Of course it pretty much advancved, but I'm just pointing out at who ruled who, that's it. And Nubia was a backwater if compared to what is north of Aswan. There was no city like Memphis or Thebes/Uaset in Nubia. That's all, and neither the monuments.


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## GENIUS LOCI (Nov 18, 2004)

chicagogeorge said:


> List of cities by time of continuous habitation
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_time_of_continuous_habitation


I love wikipedia: this list miss thousands cities. Even Rome among 'em... astonishing


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

Happy birthday, Trier (2025 years):



> Trier (Latin: Augusta Treverorum) is a city in Germany on the banks of the Moselle River. It is the oldest city in Germany, founded in or before 16 BC. Trier is not the only city claiming to be Germany's oldest, but it is the only one that bases this assertion on having the longest history as a city, as opposed to a mere settlement or army camp.












Porta *****:


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## seattle92 (Dec 25, 2008)

Nolke said:


> Obviously Hercules thing is just mythology, Cadiz was also founded by Phoenicians in a undetermined time by that date you're saying Lisbon was. They're both not only really old but also may probably have been founded in the very same period. What is more probable, however, is that the old city of Cadiz, Gadir, was the main Phoenician settlement in the Iberian peninsula (and that's not easy to say for me, my hometown, Seville, was also a Phoenician colony).


And obviously Ulisses is also mythology. But the greeks called Lisbon Olissipo because of that myth


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## Sylver (Sep 6, 2009)

Some 1000 year old Polish cities

Gniezno - established in 8th century
Poznań - established in 8th century
Gdańsk - established in 10th century
Wrocław - established in 10th century

There are plenty more that have been inhabited in the 4th and 5th centuries BC.


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## erka (Apr 26, 2003)

Amsterdam had more inhabitants than Dordrecht in the 16th century but still Dordrecht was the most important city back then. It was in Dordrecht were the Stadtholders declared independence from Spain in 1572 and adopted William of Orange as the new leader. In 1619 it was also in Dordrecht where the so called Synod of Dordrecht was held. That Synod was a very important religious gathering of protestantism in Europe (Calvin...) and it also lead to the first Dutch translation of the bible (Staten Bible), and the start of Dutch as a modern language.
Politically and also economically Dordrecht was far more important than Amsterdam during those days.


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## Ben Button (Mar 1, 2009)

How old is the USA?


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Sint-Truiden, Belgium, founded: 655









Read the history here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sint-Truiden


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Oldest town in Belgium:
Tongeren, founded: 1st century BC, so that makes it about 2600 years old.


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## GENIUS LOCI (Nov 18, 2004)

erm... 1st Century BC means 2100 years old


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

GENIUS LOCI said:


> erm... 1st Century BC means 2100 years old


Yeah srr my bad...


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## serhat (Oct 18, 2009)

İstanbul is capital of four empires.(330 - 395 Roman Empire,395-1204-1261-1453 Eastern Roman Empire, 1204-1261 Latin Empire,1453-1922 Ottoman Empire)


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## Piltup Man (May 21, 2010)

> 1453-1992 Ottoman Empire)


Don't you mean 1453-1918?


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## serhat (Oct 18, 2009)

Sorry 1922.


Piltup Man said:


> Don't you mean 1453-1918?


1453-1922 Capital of Ottoman Empire.


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## dlp (Jun 29, 2010)

To you, all funny americans.

Don't say anything about European ego overgrowth. Stop flaming on us. It's not our fault that country called USA has a couple hundreads of years. It's not our fault neither that you can't name any 1,000 years old town because it simply does not exist =(((
Secondly do not say anything about the name of Europe that it does not have any origin. It does. From Greek mithology i suppose. I wonder if you, well educated americans, know why America is called America. Do you?
What next. Don't give examples from your history lessons, because we all know on what level education in america is. All your great college and high school films ("movies", so you could understand) just prove that.
I'm not surprised that you all believe that Greece is more similar to arab countries and should not be in Europe. Your geography knowledge ends up within borders of your state of Ohio or Kentucky. You go to Paris in Europe, but asked 'Where is France?' you unfortunately don't know. Maybe some island on Pacific Ocean? I suppose many of you would say so. You have only 100 years of history to talk about in school, so why can't you teach some history of Europe? Then you would know about common past of Greeks and Turks.
And, eventually, all my american friends here, ask your parents or grandparents or great grandparents what are your family's origins. If it's not Europe (the best option in my opinion), then it is Asia (ok) or Africa ( uuu =( ). Of course you can also be from Latin America but it is similar situation like with America. But anyway, many psychos, heretics and loosers who couldn't earn on their life in Europe were looking for happiness in the 'great' New World.

To tell the truth, I came on this site accidentaly but when I saw all those comments of americans in this thread I decided to write something in here. It is you, americans, that have overgrown ego and are feeding with theories that your country is the best in the world and nothing can go without you. Just face the facts please.

Greetings from Europe.


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## serhat (Oct 18, 2009)

Istanbul Asia and Europe.


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## potiz81 (Aug 9, 2005)

Iskandar said:


> Surprised nobody has mentioned Athens


Let's create a club of 3000-year-old-cities for Athens.:cheers: It wil be a very private club with only a few members:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

dlp: thanks for your insightful comments on Americans (North, South and Central) and our diverse backgrounds. 

I am not defending any comments here, American or otherwise, but you should talk to the Turks. Their view is that current Greek culture (as opposed to Classic Greek culture) is mostly derived from the Turks, who occupied the area for centuries. Foods, customs, manners. You might also want to ask them what the condition of Athens and Greece generally was when they first conquered it. 

I'm not saying what's true, but you might want to ask your Turkish friends and not make it an American issue.

Otherwise, I love this thread and would like to hear more about older cities.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

I notice on the Wikipedia link at post 71 that Armenia is listed in "Europe" and Turkey is in "Mideast". What's with this? I remember this arrangement for soccer purposes so that Israel didn't have to play Muslim teams, but is this used for other purposes?


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## Hebrewtext (Aug 18, 2004)

Tel Aviv -Jaffa

inhabited since 7,500 BCE.


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## yashchauhan (Jun 19, 2009)

DELHI-CAPITAL OF BHARAT VARSHA FROM 300 BC and continuosly inhabited from 2700 BC


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## yashchauhan (Jun 19, 2009)

VARANASI-1100 BC-the city's character has not changed a bit from those pre jesus times


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

yashchauhan: thanks! Superb pictures or Varanasi

But I think the power lines and speakers may be post Jesus.


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## Norkey (Apr 12, 2006)

Prague is also quite old, going back to B.C. I guess we'll not find when exactly it was established, as it was outside borders of Roman Empire.. It is known that there was celtic trade settlement (probably not with status of oppidum; named Braga?) around 100 BC (Oppidum Zavist known from 200 BC lies few km south still within current borders of Prague), later it was probably capital of the Marcomanii (named Faraga, Fraga?), when slavs of various origin settled in two or three waves around it it become Praga, Praha in modern czech.


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## Valentinian I (May 24, 2009)

Vinkovci, oldest neolithic remains from ~6000 BC, continuously settled since then and home ground for two cultures. Romanized town in 3. century.

So how about making an 8000 years old club?


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## blogen_ (May 8, 2009)

^^ Continuously? The Roman settlement was destroyed in the migrations age. Its church was built in the early Middle Ages (~1100) only.


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## Valentinian I (May 24, 2009)

blogen_ said:


> ^^ Continuously? The Roman settlement was destroyed in the migrations age. Its church was built in the early Middle Ages (~1100) only.


Yes, but the grave sites tell us this story:

Roman layer (4. century) is continued by Gepid layer (5. and 6. century) and Avar-Slav layer (7. century) which is then continued by Bijelo Brdo culture (9. century.) 

Naturally cultures and languages changed, but they all lived and died here in some kind of community, even if it was barely a village (like in Ottoman times, fell to miserable 17 occupied houses in 1570).


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## orlando01 (May 3, 2010)

Porto


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## RubaDub (May 1, 2010)

rossie1977 said:


> dublin, ireland
> 
> celebrated its millenium year in 1988, they even had special mugs made


Dublin's older than that. The 1988 thing was made up to keep people distracted from the grimness of the eighties! 988 was the year the Viking king of Dublin recognised the Irish kings and Irish law, making it an Irish city instead of a Danish one.

The Vikings settled in Dublin around 840 taking over were two existing Irish settlements were. Duibh Linn was a monastry on the Poddle near were the Vikings set up shop and there are references to Bishops of Duibhlinn in the 5th or 6th century. Áth Cliath was a secular settlement at a crossing point on the Liffey. The modern city takes its name from both of these early settlements: Dublin in English and Baile Átha Cliath in Irish.

The exact age of Dublin appears to be unknown as there are no definitive records around with details of its early history. It is certainly a good bit older than 1000 years.


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