# A trip to mysterious North Korea



## badguy2000 (Mar 1, 2007)

*A trip to mysterious North Korea*
1,here is the rail station of Dandong city,China. we start the trip here.

















2,we got on the train to North korea on 8 PM.








3,some flowers will be gifted to King,th leader of N.Korea by the Chinese travel agency,because his birthday is coming!








4,we are on the bridge over the Sino-korea boundary river,Yalu River.








5,Now, we entered N.Korea.the first thing we saw in N.Korea is a small pleasure ground.but there is no kids there.








6,it is the first train station we saw in North Korea,New Yizhou station.








7,we got on another Switzerland-made train provided by N.korea . 








8,the rual area in N.Korea. we photoed them behind the N.korean trip guide,because photo is not allowed here.
















village








9,Here is Longchuang,where a great explosion broke out when King,the leader of N.Korea passed here.76 died and 1300+ injured.
Now it has be rebuilt with the help of China . It is reported that China provided 10 Million RMB for the rebuilding.


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## badguy2000 (Mar 1, 2007)

10,the N korean guide gave me a bottle of table-water. He told me that it was made in N.Korea. 
But after looking into the sign,I found it was made in China.








11,the dinner provided by N.Korea travel agency.it was better than we had expected. 
Have you notice the rice? It looks not as white and ****-looking as the rice in Chinese market.
But it tastes good. N.Korean guide told me that it was pure green rice without any fertilizers.
BTW.N.korea is reported to lack of fertilizer.








12,still photoes behind the local guide.








13,In a station called "Yanzhou", the traid stoped and stayed here for 2+ hours. Nobody tole me why train stoped and when the train would restart. 
It is the best highways we saw during the trip. In china, it even can not be called " highway",but " countryside road".
Autos were rarely found in the "highway".But when one auto was running on the "highway",a dust storm always rose behind it.
Dust storm also rose behind our train. 
the dust storm here is yellow,but in China it is black. Damn the pollution brought by industrialization in China!









14,It should be a capital-town 
those students seemed to be getting ready for the celebration of the 60th birthday of Korean communist party.
In N.krea, education,medical care and house are all free. all kids must accept 11 years of free compulsory education. If kids can pass the examination of universities,higher education is also completely free.
Chinese economy is much better than N.korea. But in China, education,medical care and house now are the "three biggest headaches" for ordinary Chinese........Chinese government really should study something from N.Korea.....especially when its foreign reservaton hit 1.2 trillion USD....








15,Now, we arrived at Pingyang, the capital of the country.








16,Pingyang train station. three local guides came to host us.
Those guides told us that all hotel in Pingyang had been occupied. so we had to go to Miaoxiangshan Hotel 180 KM away from Pingyang.
But there is a expressway between Pingyang and Miaoxianshang hotel,so it took us only 2 hours to arrive there.

When we went through Pingyang city, we found that the city lacked of electricity seriously.it looked very dark.
BTW,the expressway between Pingyang and Miaoxianshan looks decent.








17,well, We arrive at our hotel, Miaoxiangsan hotel.......the hall looks very splendid ,doesn't it?
it is one of top 3 hotels in N.korea. 
the other two are Korea great hotel and Yangjiao Island Hotel.
















18,But the indoor facilities is just so so.........
















19,our breakfast
























20,the bread tasted a bit too "hard"..so one lady asked for cabbage.
Have you see the dish of cabbage? five pieces of cabbage worth 5 RMB(0.8 USD). 
a bit too expensive,isn't it?









21,the waitress and the guide of Chinese travell agency








22, Miaoxiangshan Hotel in fog








23,Miaoxiangshan moutain. Miaoxiangshan Hotel is built on the moutain.
It looks very green and bueatiful,doesn't it?








24,the taller is the bus for our trip.....it is a second-hand Japanese bus.








25, we visited the museum of King RIchen, the founder of N.korea and the father of current leader of N.korea.
King Richen died in 1994. His museum is near the Miaoxiangshan Hotel.
























26,the three guides of N.Korea








27,the monument of King Richen,the father of current nation head of N.korea








28,the gate of victory.it is the copy of that in Paris...








29,TV station








30,the monument of " Qianli horse"








31, the monument of "Chinese volunteer army in Korean war",the only thing N.Korean express their gratitude to Chinese .
well,In korea war, more then 140,000 Chinese soldiers died to save the King's regime.But N.korean seemed to deliberately ignore the fact.









32,film cinema in Pingyang








more continued
33,we went back to Pingyang,to watch Alilang, the " world biggest living theatre" so called,because 10000+ actors/actress took part in the living theatre.
In Korea,"Alilang" is a popular romantic tale just as Romeo&Juliet in western world. N.korean turns such a beautiful romantic tale into the "world biggest living theatre".
























34,very neat!but the lighting effect is too simple !
if the lighting effects had been as good as Chinese counterpart ,it would had been much more impressive!
























35,people-wave tactic ,isn't it?
















36,the map of Korean peninsular








37,the soldiers also took part in the show. some of our travelling companion were veteran of PLA. 
they were very excited to see their Korean confrere..
















38,more pictures of "Alilang". the performance lasted one and half hours.








































39, on the last night in N .Korea, We lived in Korea great Hotel. It is also one of Top 3 hotels in N.korea,as well as Miaoxianghsan Hotel.
personally speaking,Its serivice is as good as 4 stars hotels in China.








40,But its indoor facilities is much better than the counterpart in Mianxiangshang Hotel .
To our surprise,here We can see Chinese CCTV 4 and Phenix Channel as well as 1 Japanese,1 russian and 2 local channels.
In Miaoxiangshang hotel, We can see only 1 local plodding channel on TV there.








41,the hall of the hotel.








42,the night scene of Pingyang,photoed from the Korean Great Hotel.
have you notice the two light-lines? it is a cars is passing on one road.








43,more night scence of Pingyang








44,the morning of Pingyang.
The unfiinished pyramidal highrise in a distance is called "Liujing Plaza". it has 105 floors .Unfortunately, due to the lack of fund, the construction of the highrise had ceased for long time.

In China, We called such suspended construction projects " Tail-decayed Buildings" . So,"Liujing Plaza" should be the tallest " Tail-decayed building" in the world. 
















45,we walked along the road in Pingyang on the morning.








46,the words on the gate of the building is " long live General King Il!"








48,the famous traffic woman cop.those traffic cops are all unmarried young pretty girls. traffic cop is a very admirable career in Pingyang.

But I suspect that their job must be very easy,because there are hardly autos on the streets in Pingyang.








49, We had a lunch in the restaurant .the beef here is very tasty. the lunch cost us 60 RMB(8 USD). It is not expensive,is it?
The restaurant is on the street next to the "Korean great hotel". It should be a special street for foreign tourists,Because in Pingyang only its street lamp is light in the evening.








50,the ladies were looking for Icecream...eventually,and they found a gloriette like that. 
could we buy icecream there?








51,it seemed very popular,isn't it?








52,when we came close enough,we found there was no icecream here. But ice-lollys are availabel because there was a small refrigerater.








53,But ladies complained:" they reject Chinese RMB. only Euro is available here!"








54,we went back to "Korean great hotel " to enjoy our last dinner in N.korea
























55,then we got on the train back home in the train station in Pingyang.








56,here is New Yizhou ,the last train station in N.korea before we went back to China.









57,, now, we are runnin on the bridge over the boundary river. to the north of bridge is Dandong city,China..
when we crossed the boundary,I had a feeling of coming back home...








58 ,welcome to the earth!
after returning from N.Korea ,I spent one night in Dandong city.
Dandong is a medium-size city in China. but by per GDP,it is almost one of poorest cities in Liangning province. Before the trip, I had a very poor impression on Dangdong...but after returning from N. Korea,I found that Dangdong is indeed not as poor as I thought before ...........


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## staff (Oct 23, 2004)

Holy shit! Great tour!


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## PresidentBjork (Apr 29, 2007)

What a bloody brilliant tour, I feel like I was there too!
Fascinating insight on North Korea from a Chinese onlooker, which is surprisingly rare.


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## oliver999 (Aug 4, 2006)

how can they allow you take a camera? maybe you took these shots sceretly. nice pics, i am planning a trip to north korea in near future.


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## Mussoda (Mar 10, 2007)

good., informing pics...

is it a trip of your own?

(PS : some pics r just "X-box")


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## WinoSoul (Sep 14, 2005)

Very interesting!


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## SmellyHongKongAir (Jun 29, 2007)

thats a very challenging feat!
no one dares to risks thier lifes to experience the will of the notorious kim


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## duskdawn (May 13, 2006)

I see many NK trips popped up on Chinese Internet in recently several years. Is that a lot easier for Chinese to travel to NK than other foreigners?
As for NK, I'm pretty sure they might possibly start to open up and deeper reform after Kim II's death since the family's power is vanishing. It will become another Vietnam, and then another China, and eventually no different from their southern brothers/sisters.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

Even here in Hong Kong, there are tours available to visit North Korea for about HKD$6000 for 4-5 nights. The price is about double the cost of visiting South Korea for the same length of time. However, instead of taking the train in and out, it's a flight into Pyongyang from Beijing on Air Koryo.


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## Posener (Jun 24, 2006)

Great pics, I really would like to visit North Korea but it's very expensive


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## hoogbouw010 (Sep 10, 2002)

Thanks for this special tour!


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## globill (Dec 4, 2005)

Anyone who travels to North Korea.....like this...

is scum. Treating your fellow human beings like animals in a zoo.

The people in your pics have NO FREEDOM. How does that make you feel?


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## opium (Apr 10, 2006)

For some reason i'd like to go there , but i need to renew my russian passport first . I dont think my american passport will be welcome there .


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## Ore (Jun 6, 2006)

Very interesting tour, thanks for sharing


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## PresidentBjork (Apr 29, 2007)

globill said:


> Anyone who travels to North Korea.....like this...
> 
> is scum. Treating your fellow human beings like animals in a zoo.
> 
> The people in your pics have NO FREEDOM. How does that make you feel?


_Jesus Christ!_ how did you get that impression? One of the reasons I found this thread interesting was because it didn't contain the jingoism and propaganda you usually find with North Korean commentaries.


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## duskdawn (May 13, 2006)

^^ Yes, it is kind of pathetic for some people, especially in America, to have this kind of narrow minds. It seems their brains, even living in a "free" world, were shaped to accept only what he was taught. Never go 1 inch beyond that. They can even be very famous, like that Lou Dobbs. Every time he's crying about "Communist China bla bla bla", I know he's starting to stereotype, and to mass-produce more people like globill.


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## huaxia-zhonghua (Apr 15, 2006)

did you ever visit the monument for China volunteer army in north korea?


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## ZimasterX (Aug 19, 2005)

Nice tour. I myself would love to visit North Korea, just to their version of communism, even if the tour itself is a fascade of what the government wants you to see. Still would be extreemly fascinating.


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## forrestcat (Apr 21, 2006)

Very good thread  .


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## BOSS (Apr 13, 2007)

globill said:


> Anyone who travels to North Korea.....like this...
> 
> is scum. Treating your fellow human beings like animals in a zoo.
> 
> The people in your pics have NO FREEDOM. How does that make you feel?


why does it be how someone feels? Just observe. I thought What is this all for, all for nothing basically. Amazing to see people are still going through this. 



Krasnaya Zima said:


> Nice tour. I myself would love to visit North Korea, just to their version of communism, even if the tour itself is a fascade of what the government wants you to see. Still would be extreemly fascinating.


I agree.

great thread


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## Marek.kvackaj (Jun 24, 2006)

HUH Great trip ...what you are diplomat?:nuts: :lol: 


btw this flowers are sooo ugly..I will NOT give them even my friend Grand mother to her birthday (73 years old next week  )


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## Daryae_Abi (Jul 7, 2007)

Good thread
Brother Badguy, did you go wherever you wanted and your guides would followed you, or did they tell you where to go?


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## globill (Dec 4, 2005)

duskdawn said:


> ^^ Yes, it is kind of pathetic for some people, especially in America, to have this kind of narrow minds. It seems their brains, even living in a "free" world, were shaped to accept only what he was taught. Never go 1 inch beyond that. They can even be very famous, like that Lou Dobbs. Every time he's crying about "Communist China bla bla bla", I know he's starting to stereotype, and to mass-produce more people like globill.


Whatever dude. I live in Seoul, in the free part of South Korea. China is a lot more free than North Korea. The North Korean government doesn;t even allow its citizens to communicate with their families in the South.

It's evil and people who travel there are helping to perpetuate the evil.


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## Daryae_Abi (Jul 7, 2007)

globill said:


> Whatever dude. I live in Seoul, in the free part of South Korea. China is a lot more free than North Korea. The North Korean government doesn;t even allow its citizens to communicate with their families in the South.
> 
> It's evil and people who travel there are helping to perpetuate the evil.


How does it perpetuate evil? It is for education, this is the only way to learn!
Amazing that a KOREAN hates so much that someone has travelled to his homeland.


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## badguy2000 (Mar 1, 2007)

Marek.kvackaj said:


> HUH Great trip ...what you are diplomat?:nuts: :lol:
> 
> 
> btw this flowers are sooo ugly..I will NOT give them even my friend Grand mother to her birthday (73 years old next week  )


ugly flowers for the ugly guy.


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## phillybud (Jul 22, 2007)

*Thank you for the photos!*

 What an excellant set of pictures to a country I've never been: North Korea! It was very educational ... here are some comments:
- The hotels you stayed at looked quite modern and comfortable, it's too bad you had to stay 180 kms away from the capital city because no rooms were available (can you imagine a tourist to, say, London, Paris, Rome, Bangkok, Hong Kong, or New York having to be put on a train to a hotel 180 kms away???!!!!!)
- I loved the carpet on the floor of the monument you visited - very colorful!
- The big Arch did NOT look like the one in Paris (the Arc De Triomphe) in my opinion, but it was very nice in it's own way!
- The city looked very clean and tidy.
- Did the trains run on time?
- I don't think the flowers were ugly/ How can fresh flowers be ugly? Marek, did you mean to say they were arranged in a very old-fashioned way? Old fashioned formal floral arrangements like this are good for putting on someone's grave or tomb ... maybe N. Korean florists should go to Japan to study, where flower arranging is elevated to a fine art!
- the big show with hundreds and thousands of people was very grand and spectacular ... big spectacles like these were popular in Germany in the 1930's, in fact there is something about this country that is reminiscent of Germany in the 1930's.:colgate:


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## Dennis (Sep 11, 2002)

awesome pics!


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## globill (Dec 4, 2005)

Daryae_Abi said:


> How does it perpetuate evil? It is for education, this is the only way to learn!
> Amazing that a KOREAN hates so much that someone has travelled to his homeland.


Do you have any idea about the regime in Pyongyang? North Koreans are not allowed to leave the country. They are not allowed to make or recieve international calls. They cannot send or recieve mail. They have no economic or political freedom (at least in Iran, you have economic and some political freedom).

I refuse to travel to a country where the citizens are not allowed to travel. I think it is immoral to support such a system.

And why do you suppose no North koreans are posting on this site????

Because they are not allowed to use the internet.


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## nando02 (Sep 8, 2006)

wow!!
I love it!


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## go_leafs_go02 (Jan 16, 2007)

absolutely fascinating. always been interested in the city and the country as a whole, however, pictures and sights seem quite a hard find on the internet.

thanks for sharing!


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## globill (Dec 4, 2005)

go_leafs_go02 said:


> absolutely fascinating. always been interested in the city and the country as a whole, however, pictures and sights seem quite a hard find on the internet.


That's because North Koreans have NO FREEDOM AT ALL!

NONE.


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## globill (Dec 4, 2005)

Apparently this site has a lot of moral midgets....

If you were to see pics of humans in cages....would you enjoy them?

Because North Korea is a Giant Cage.


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## duskdawn (May 13, 2006)

I know North Korea is not a free country. But what is it has to do with traveling there and acquire some educational impression.
Plus, as a Chinese myself, I know the damage to people in country like NK is from both inside and outside the country. If the whole world is isolating the country it will just go to more evil because they have no choice. Their situation is worsened because of the global embargo. You do know even a rich country like South Korea needs import something outside to sustain the growth right?
This is totally political crap. If you really care about those people, give them food, not bury them in loneliness.


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## globill (Dec 4, 2005)

Do you have any idea what the Chinese government in Beijing does to North Korean refugees?


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## globill (Dec 4, 2005)

duskdawn said:


> I know North Korea is not a free country. But what is it has to do with traveling there and acquire some educational impression.



If you have to ask such a question, you are totally clueless.

Imagine a slave society that offers tour groups.....

Would you take the tour?


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## duskdawn (May 13, 2006)

globill said:


> Do you have any idea what the Chinese government in Beijing does to North Korean refugees?


This is a political issue that I cannot agree on. But I do know China provides most food and reform assistance.


globill said:


> If you have to ask such a question, you are totally clueless.
> 
> Imagine a slave society that offers tour groups.....
> 
> Would you take the tour?


I don't get it. If I am curious to go and they offer it, why not?


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## PresidentBjork (Apr 29, 2007)

So what, we ignore North Korea's existence? Pretend it doesn't exist until someday for some reason, it stops being a communist hermit state. Why dogmatically refuse to look at any images or read any descriptions simply because we know there isn't a favorable state of affairs over there? Does that mean violence in Iraq shouldn't be reported on because it is bad? These pictures simply allow us to see inside North Korea, of course the authorities are going to restrain tourist activities but it still gives us glimpse.


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## globill (Dec 4, 2005)

Enjoy the pictures of your fellow ENSLAVED humans. I am not able to do so.


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## badguy2000 (Mar 1, 2007)

well, N.Korea is not a "typical undevloped country" like Africa.
In 1970s-1980s, its per GDP hit 2000 USD.the life quality of its people could rival that of East European countries. Before 1980s, the life quality of N.Korea was even better than its cousins in S.Korea.
Its economy went bankrupty mainly because the communism world collapsed and it lost market and resource of raw resource.......but its people still have much better education than most developing countries.

BTW,there are much more the highrises in Pingyang than you expected,aren't you? those highrises were all built in 1970s-1980s,when Beijing ,even Shanghai were still full of crappy wigwams.

IMHO, N.korea is a *outdated medium-income country*. but its "outdated" is caused by both wrong economic policy and embargo.

Once N.korean could reform as China, It could grow much faster than most other developing country.

May N.Korean people have a wiser leader like Deng Xiaoping and have a better future.


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## badguy2000 (Mar 1, 2007)

phillybud said:


> What an excellant set of pictures to a country I've never been: North Korea! It was very educational ... here are some comments:
> - The hotels you stayed at looked quite modern and comfortable, it's too bad you had to stay 180 kms away from the capital city because no rooms were available (can you imagine a tourist to, say, London, Paris, Rome, Bangkok, Hong Kong, or New York having to be put on a train to a hotel 180 kms away???!!!!!)
> - I loved the carpet on the floor of the monument you visited - very colorful!
> - The big Arch did NOT look like the one in Paris (the Arc De Triomphe) in my opinion, but it was very nice in it's own way!
> ...


the train in N.Korea is always not on time.


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## badguy2000 (Mar 1, 2007)

Daryae_Abi said:


> Good thread
> Brother Badguy, did you go wherever you wanted and your guides would followed you, or did they tell you where to go?


many pictures were photoed behinds the local guides,because photos are forbidden in many occasions.

the agenda of the trip is strictly arranged by local guides.
But generally speaking,Chinese can travell much more free than other foreigners in N.korea.


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## Tony Sebo (Jun 28, 2004)

Daryae_Abi said:


> How does it perpetuate evil? It is for education, this is the only way to learn!
> Amazing that a KOREAN hates so much that someone has travelled to his homeland.


maybe because he has family on the other side of the border that they have not been able to see for decades, maybe because they have had family kidnapped.. maybe because N Korea has the US over a barrel, not by threatening to attack NYC, but because they threaten to obliterate South Korean cities in the first wave?

You seem to have a willingly rose tinted notion of the N Korean regime?

Silly boy!


having said all that.... good thread.. extremely enjoyable!


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## zergling (Jul 5, 2004)

OH. MY. GOD. globill you are just being ridiculous. Just because NK has a horrible regime and people there have no freedom , the rest of the world should turn a blind eye on this land and pretend nothing is happening? No, that's not true my friend, this is a terrible place whether u choose to ignore it or not, so deal with it. There have been far worse political regimes in history than north korean, and pretending that it doesnt exist is not the way it works.


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## Daryae_Abi (Jul 7, 2007)

Tony Sebo said:


> maybe because he has family on the other side of the border that they have not been able to see for decades, maybe because they have had family kidnapped.. maybe because N Korea has the US over a barrel, not by threatening to attack NYC, but because they threaten to obliterate South Korean cities in the first wave?
> 
> *You seem to have a willingly rose tinted notion of the N Korean regime?*
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, did I even comment on the North Korean rejim?
I did not make any political statement. I am only saying that travelling to a country for education is never a bad thing!

And how can I know if what I hear and read about N Korean rejim is true or not if I have never been there? They may be true, but I am not going to believe it just because their enemies say it. For example, I read in BBC Persian that after petrol rationing it was martial law in Tehran after midnight. And for that entire week I was out until 1-2 in the morning and I saw that it was complete false! How can I know they are not doing the same for N Korea unless I travel to their country?


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## Marek.kvackaj (Jun 24, 2006)

phillybud said:


> Marek, did you mean to say they were arranged in a very old-fashioned way? Old fashioned formal floral arrangements like this are good for putting on someone's grave or tomb ... maybe N. Korean florists should go to Japan to study, where flower arranging is elevated to a fine art!


\Yess thats what I mean :cheers:


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## Facial (Jun 21, 2004)

Great pics.


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## italki (Mar 4, 2007)

globill said:


> Apparently this site has a lot of moral midgets....
> 
> If you were to see pics of humans in cages....would you enjoy them?
> 
> Because North Korea is a Giant Cage.


Your beloved USA puts human in cages, just look at those people they have kept in guantanamo bay for years without any trial


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## globill (Dec 4, 2005)

Oh my....the idiocy knows no end. Now we are comparing North Korea and the United States?????

Unbelievable.


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## Istanbullu (May 20, 2004)

Great tour... 

N. Korea looks much better than I expected...


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## wolf18 (Dec 4, 2005)

great


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## cmoonflyer (Aug 17, 2005)

I just completed my Liaodong peninsula trip a few days ago , and in Dandong city's Yalu river , on the evening I boarded the tourist ship to make a water journey along the river across the double bridges (one complete bridge and one broken bridge), it was indeed a pleasant and memorable tour.... it was said the Korean side - Sinuiju Development Zone's construction is to be under way , I don't know if it will be built like that of the China side with high rise buildings on by one along the bank , and also hope to see a modern and prosperous special economic development zone in N.korea side with many skyscrapers alike in the near future !

*DPR.Korea side view along Yalu river* 




























*China side view along Yalu river *


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

Great Thread - it's always interesting to see pics from NK...!


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## TohrAlkimista (Dec 18, 2006)

indeed, this is a really mysterious place!


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## asif iqbal (Sep 3, 2006)

I think what you see here is the 21st human tradgey for all mankind, how can a man extremist goverment a$$hole leader be allowed to treat its citizens in such a way, he should be publicaly executed 

its respondsibilty of everyone to get ride of such mad regimes they have no place in the world today i mean look at south Korea its a asian powerhouse economy and because of ONE madman all poor north koreans are being kept away from making progress


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## asif iqbal (Sep 3, 2006)

badguy2000 said:


> well, N.Korea is not a "typical undevloped country" like Africa.
> In 1970s-1980s, its per GDP hit 2000 USD.the life quality of its people could rival that of East European countries. Before 1980s, the life quality of N.Korea was even better than its cousins in S.Korea.
> Its economy went bankrupty mainly because the communism world collapsed and it lost market and resource of raw resource.......but its people still have much better education than most developing countries.
> 
> ...


I am sorry but how can you even think of saying anything good about a country who dont allow its people basic human right!!1 freedom and education

about North Korea i seen a programme and in north koreans dont even know who is micheal jackson and current US president they dont even know where is UK in the world map!!!!!!!

they are completly closed to outside world contact its worst crime of all time and a sick one


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## badguy2000 (Mar 1, 2007)

asif iqbal said:


> I am sorry but how can you even think of saying anything good about a country who dont allow its people basic human right!!1 freedom and education
> 
> about North Korea i seen a programme and in north koreans dont even know who is micheal jackson and current US president they dont even know where is UK in the world map!!!!!!!
> 
> they are completly closed to outside world contact its worst crime of all time and a sick one


1, Frankly speaking, I dislike the leaders of N.korea and its current political system .
but I do think there are some positive factors in N.Korea,such as free education,free housing and free medical care.
I never expect that such free education,free housing and free medical care can be provided in the most savage capitalism societies such as China.
But at least,can't Chinese government stop the price of houses,education and medical care rocketing on?

2,they are bright people and have very high literacy .what they are short of is a good system.

N.korea people could create economic miracle as China does ,provided with proper lead and good system.
what


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## Daryae_Abi (Jul 7, 2007)

asif iqbal said:


> I am sorry but how can you even think of saying anything good about a country who dont allow its people basic human right!!1 freedom and education
> 
> about North Korea i seen a programme and in north koreans dont even know who is micheal jackson and current US president they dont even know where is UK in the world map!!!!!!!
> 
> they are completly closed to outside world contact its worst crime of all time and a sick one


baba ye zare kenar biya dige
har keshvari khoobi o badi dare, hatta keshvari mesle koreye shomali


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## asif iqbal (Sep 3, 2006)

badguy2000 said:


> 1, Frankly speaking, I dislike the leaders of N.korea and its current political system .
> but I do think there are some positive factors in N.Korea,such as free education,free housing and free medical care.
> I never expect that such free education,free housing and free medical care can be provided in the most savage capitalism societies such as China.
> But at least,can't Chinese government stop the price of houses,education and medical care rocketing on?
> ...


we have free education, meidcal care (NHS) and free housing and goverment support in scotland i dont see the big deal here China is still rising they have a long way to go before they reach western GDP

and all this free stuff is the centre line of the godless communism Soviet idealogy imposed on the very galent people of North Korea 

had it not been for the Soviets North Korea would be one of the tiger economys of Asia,

what point in free house when 3 million people was died due to famine in 1990s

what point in education when all you learn is rubbish storys about a a$$hole leader who supress his own people 

what point in medical health care when you have gulags

theres nothing you can say which justifys the action of a regime like North Korea its shame on mankind to allow such a place to exist today and if i could id do something about it

your pictures was very nice by the way


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## gappa (Mar 13, 2007)

Thank you for an insight into the hermit kingdom, the more people who travel there, the more the more positive influence they'll have.


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## snow is red (May 7, 2007)

omg.. I love North Korea, I really want to travel to this place and get to know the place, really like the place. Simple people with simple lives


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## Kheldane (Jul 6, 2006)

globill said:


> Oh my....the idiocy knows no end. Now we are comparing North Korea and the United States?????
> 
> Unbelievable.


Well, if the US would quit acting like North Korea in so many policies to imprison and spy on its citizens, then you wouldn't have to deal with such pesky (yet appropriate) comparisons, would you?


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## oliver999 (Aug 4, 2006)

badguy2000 said:


> 1, Frankly speaking, I dislike the leaders of N.korea and its current political system .
> but I do think there are some positive factors in N.Korea,such as free education,free housing and free medical care.
> I never expect that such free education,free housing and free medical care can be provided in the most savage capitalism societies such as China.
> But at least,can't Chinese government stop the price of houses,education and medical care rocketing on?
> ...


free education, free house , free medical? those are fake. north korea people live extremelly poor life . the mommunist party in korea should be smashed into pieces.


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## badguy2000 (Mar 1, 2007)

oliver999 said:


> free education, free house , free medical? those are fake. north korea people live extremelly poor life . the mommunist party in korea should be smashed into pieces.


hi,buddy,I am sure that I have enough reason to complain about.

the price of condoes in Shenzhen,where I live,has rocket to about 20000 RMB(2800 USD)/ per square meter.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

Interesting pictures...I have NEVER seen pictures of North Korea like this.

It's a very mysterious place. :shocked:


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## cmc (Oct 4, 2005)

Interesting thread....good pix


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

Very interesting photos, thanks for sharing. It's rare to see photos of North Korea outside Pyongyang.

Please tell me is it possible for a Chinese person to talk to regular North Koreans (not tour guides etc)? I know it is impossible for westerners visiting the country.


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## Rigo (May 4, 2007)

Amazing! Impressive!

What a trip, congratulations!!

Thanks for posting!


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## globill (Dec 4, 2005)

Kheldane said:


> Well, if the US would quit acting like North Korea in so many policies to imprison and spy on its citizens, then you wouldn't have to deal with such pesky (yet appropriate) comparisons, would you?



A monument to the idiocy of the age. North Koreans are not ALLOWED to TRAVEL, SPEAK, ACT, COMPLAIN, PHONE, EMAIL, PROTEST, or MOVE freely.........


Yet so many little kiddies gush praise on someone who travels to the jail that is North Korea.


Amazing......


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## asif iqbal (Sep 3, 2006)

globill said:


> A monument to the idiocy of the age. North Koreans are not ALLOWED to TRAVEL, SPEAK, ACT, COMPLAIN, PHONE, EMAIL, PROTEST, or MOVE freely.........
> 
> 
> Yet so many little kiddies gush praise on someone who travels to the jail that is North Korea.
> ...


so true, but did u know last year 37,000 mobiles was smuggled into nortb korea from china, and text messages can be used to organise protest like in Nepal last year however the evil eye of the north koreans is never far away its a human zoo


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

globill said:


> A monument to the idiocy of the age. North Koreans are not ALLOWED to TRAVEL, SPEAK, ACT, COMPLAIN, PHONE, EMAIL, PROTEST, or MOVE freely.........
> 
> 
> Yet so many little kiddies gush praise on someone who travels to the jail that is North Korea.
> ...


So how would the situation be improved if the isolation of the North Korean people was even worse as you suggest we should block all contacts with them?


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## FREKI (Sep 27, 2005)

Nice pics and VERY interesting!

However a lot of the pictures doesn't show ( red X's )


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## Audiomuse (Dec 20, 2005)

Amazing Thread


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## asif iqbal (Sep 3, 2006)

btw how much did u pay for the 4 star hotel? and is it possible for UK citizens to vist North Korea?


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

asif iqbal said:


> btw how much did u pay for the 4 star hotel? and is it possible for UK citizens to vist North Korea?


It is possible, you can try to get visas at the North Korean embassy in Beijing.


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## asif iqbal (Sep 3, 2006)

Jonesy55 said:


> It is possible, you can try to get visas at the North Korean embassy in Beijing.


yeah i would sure like to vist some day


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## PresidentBjork (Apr 29, 2007)

02tonyl said:


> omg.. I love North Korea, I really want to travel to this place and get to know the place, really like the place. Simple people with simple lives


Now, I'm interested in these pictures but lets be reasonable, thanks to the utmost perversion of power, the rulers of North Korea have infiltrated every aspect of their people's lives. They live lives thrust upon them, even intellectually the authorities that have contrived to control their thoughts and beliefs. Even if we are subject to certain rules and conventions depending on our country of birth, only those countries truly totalitarian try to enshrine these controlling factors into law.


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## asif iqbal (Sep 3, 2006)

how did north korea come in to being, i mean US and thier allies drove past the 38th parallel and took over whole of Korea, it would have been good if they kept it but am i right in saying it was the Chinese who then entered the war which resulted in US withdrawal and emergance of a North Korea? If China never entered the war today Korea would have been a unified country


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## PresidentBjork (Apr 29, 2007)

Korea was under Japanese occupation since 1910. After 1945 the north was liberated by Russian forces (since a North Korea shares a tiny bit of its border with Russia) and the south by the Americans. Both sides set up favorable regimes. In 1950 the Korean war started when the communist north invaded the south. With allied help the south managed to recover to what seemed total defeat and turned the tables on the communists. Ideologically aligned, and in fear of western expansion, Maoist China entered the war on the side of the communists. They in turn, drove UN forces south again. The war grinding to a stalemate near to the original demarcation line in 1953, armistice was declared, but true peace has still eluded the peninsular since.
Its true if China hadn't entered the war, North Korea may not exist today. But you have to consider that in their eyes at the time the Chinese thought they were defending the self determination of the peninsular, as the west now does. One could point out that if the UN hadn't entered the war the peninsular would be unified.


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## duskdawn (May 13, 2006)

asif iqbal said:


> how did north korea come in to being, i mean US and thier allies drove past the 38th parallel and took over whole of Korea, it would have been good if they kept it but am i right in saying it was the Chinese who then entered the war which resulted in US withdrawal and emergance of a North Korea? If China never entered the war today Korea would have been a unified country


Don't blame China. Chinese people, who couldn't even feed ourselves, sacrificed 1 million (only 0.14 million for US) lives for the ally, our communist brother. Who knows how it will come out 60 years later. We only knew we were restoring the North Korea's territory. We had no intention to assist the north invading the south.


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## asif iqbal (Sep 3, 2006)

PresidentBjork said:


> Mao could be pretty quixotic over economic policy as we know, embarking on huge poorly thought out schemes. But I don't think even he genuinely expected a war with the west to be the kick start of Chinese industry. To many Chinese communists it was a very risky decision. In fact one of the reasons why they sought an end to it was that it was becoming an intolerable economic drain.It still is obvious that coming into the war was for Mao, a way to prove his new regime was strong enough to remain in power and also protect communist interests in Asia.
> 
> In addition there were numerous hawkish voices in America (e.g Robert Taft) who did espouse crossing the Yalu River and taking the war to the Chinese. In fact, President Truman was heavily criticized (which did in part lead to his loss of the 1950 election) for too easily appeasing Chinese communism. Even towards the wars end President Eisenhower was being advised by many, even his vice president, to use whatever means necessary to defeat the Chinese which included heavier strikes, perhaps even nuclear, on Chinese targets.


well i would have thought it would be sensible for the americans to give the chinese assurances that they wouldnt cross the Yalu river and violate chinese territory however i think US-China never had diplomatic ties at that time and mis-trust was high on the agenda due to Taiwan situation, had the US and UN told China of thier intensions the outcome would have been rather different and would have saved many lives 

a nuclear war would have been just a disaster because i dont think chinese would be beaten in china as we seen in WWII and failed Japanese campagin it would have resulted in a catastrophe for US and China and rest of the world if US had opened a second front against China we are talking start of WWIII but i think sense prevailed and the people in charge made the right choices


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## PresidentBjork (Apr 29, 2007)

asif iqbal said:


> well i would have thought it would be sensible for the americans to give the chinese assurances that they wouldnt cross the Yalu river and violate chinese territory however i think US-China never had diplomatic ties at that time and mis-trust was high on the agenda due to Taiwan situation, had the US and UN told China of thier intensions the outcome would have been rather different and would have saved many lives
> 
> a nuclear war would have been just a disaster because i dont think chinese would be beaten in china as we seen in WWII and failed Japanese campagin it would have resulted in a catastrophe for US and China and rest of the world if US had opened a second front against China we are talking start of WWIII but i think sense prevailed and the people in charge made the right choices


^ Oh, of course, if those reactionary men had got their way there would have been a WWIII, thank God they didn't. But sadly, at the time, 50% of Americans did actually think world war three was about to start. 

Unfortunately, the PRC was not on the UN security council at this time. In fact the USSR was abstaining from the council in protest of this, otherwise they would have vetoed the UN decision to aid South Korea. Perhaps if the Chinese already had a place at the security council a more diplomatic solution could have been found.


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## wigo (Jan 23, 2006)

asif iqbal said:


> China fights for another country who only appreciate the help they received by a cheap monument in pongyang, china losses 1 million men and in the end are asked to leave North Korea only so the North Koreans can turn to the Soviets who let both China and North Korea down? so this is a victory ?? and now when China is superpower North Korean turn to China for money and help you dont see this!!!
> If US was invading chinese land and u say this then off course u are right but here u are wrong


Chinese casuality is 300,000 to 500,000, and about 150,000 of which is death.

As for who is the winner, you have to know the grand strategy. If China backed down in Korea, US would have easily entered into North in the Vietnam war and defeated Vietkong, and Nixon would not have come to China to beg for helping of US retreat....... Regarding to the "NK vis-a-vis China", that is really too minor when we are talking about grand strategy. But ....., oh just never mind.


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## asif iqbal (Sep 3, 2006)

PresidentBjork what year and how did China join the UN?




wigo said:


> Chinese casuality is 300,000 to 500,000, and about 150,000 of which is death.
> 
> As for who is the winner, you have to know the grand strategy. If China backed down in Korea, US would have easily entered into North in the Vietnam war and defeated Vietkong, and Nixon would not have come to China to beg for helping of US retreat....... Regarding to the "NK vis-a-vis China", that is really too minor when we are talking about grand strategy. But ....., oh just never mind.


sorry but i dont belive you i have seen many sources and the figure is very high dont try and play the numbers game :nono: 

well i would hardly call Nixon vists a begging one it was good for both sides to acknowledge each other as both are world powers and couldnt have ignored each other for much longer they had to start somewhere


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## wigo (Jan 23, 2006)

asif iqbal said:


> sorry but i dont belive you i have seen many sources and the figure is very high dont try and play the numbers game :nono:


I have seen many sources as well, why do I have to trust western source.

US just tries to save its face by exaggerating Chinese death toll, but remember, the maximum Chinese troop ever deployed in Korea barely exceeded 1 million


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## asif iqbal (Sep 3, 2006)

wigo said:


> I have seen many sources as well, why do I have to trust western source.


not everything the West says is a lie you know stop being paranoid


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## wigo (Jan 23, 2006)

PresidentBjork said:


> I didn't deny any of this, the US and did interfere with China at that time. But it is fair to say, that from their point of view China was equally guilty of meddling in other countries affairs.


What you are saying is: US can put China in imminent danger but China should not respond, otherwise China is guilty. :nuts: 

Did China bomb US cities? Did China send fleet to Mexico bay?

China would not do anything if US did not infringe China's sovereignty in the first hand.


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## wigo (Jan 23, 2006)

asif iqbal said:


> not everything the West says is a lie you know stop being paranoid


:banana:, this is a good one. Just calm down when you hear something that you don't want to hear.


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## PresidentBjork (Apr 29, 2007)

wigo said:


> What you are saying is: US can put China in imminent danger but China should not respond, otherwise China is guilty. :nuts:
> 
> Did China bomb US cities? Did China send fleet to Mexico bay?
> 
> China would not do anything if US did not infringe China's sovereignty in the first hand.


Now you are just putting words in to my mouth. I was just explaining the thoughts of the time, good or bad. Of course both powers were interfering in other places, that's what the whole cold war was about.

The People's Republic of China joined the UN late in 1971 and became one of the members of the full time security council the same year. This only happened when America granted that the nationalist party of China (based in Taiwan) should no longer be seen as the representative of China as a whole. Prior to this the seat at the UN was in the name of the nationalist Republic of China, which by then no longer existed.


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## wigo (Jan 23, 2006)

PresidentBjork said:


> The People's Republic of China joined the UN late in 1971 and became one of the members of the full time security council the same year. This only happened when America granted that the nationalist party of China (based in Taiwan) should no longer be seen as the representative of China as a whole. Prior to this the seat at the UN was in the name of the nationalist Republic of China, which by then no longer existed.


Not true, that happened in UN assembly (not security council) which US has no veto. And in fact, US voted against it. PR China got most of her support from communist bloc and African countries.


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## PresidentBjork (Apr 29, 2007)

wigo said:


> Not true, that happened in UN assembly (not security council) which US has no veto. And in fact, US voted against it. PR China got most of her support from communist bloc and African countries.


I recognize that the seat on the assembly was gained through other country's support, but then how did China gain its seat on the security council? Was that an assembly decision too?


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## wigo (Jan 23, 2006)

PresidentBjork said:


> I recognize that the seat on the assembly was gained through other country's support, but then how did China gain its seat on the security council? Was that an assembly decision too?


Yes, as PRC gov't replaced ROC in UN, PRC automatically inherited all rights of "China", including the perment member of security council hold by ROC previously.


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## PresidentBjork (Apr 29, 2007)

ah, I see, thanks for the clarification.


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## Latino177 (Aug 2, 2007)

Fascinating insight on North Korea IS EXAMPLE CITY I LIKE A City Clean Lol


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## ssfan (Sep 4, 2005)

badguy2000 said:


> .......but its people still have much better education than most developing countries.


seriously doubt


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