# the three most visited cities in Europe...



## Tiaren (Jan 29, 2006)

...are Paris, London and Berlin.
Why are so much tourists interested in these three citys. Why would you chose this cities for your visit in Europe above others? What's so special...? 

Do these cities symbolize Europe these days the most?

Edit:
for the non-believers, Berlin is truely ranking on third position.

"Berlin, of course, is already becoming a European leader in tourism. With a record 15 million overnight stays in 2005, Berlin has become the third most visited city in Europe after London and Paris. Tourists now spend almost €3 billion a year in the German capital."

from:
Spiegel.de

For more sources scroll down, please. ;-D


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## Forza Raalte (Sep 18, 2004)

Well, I actually don't think Berlin is in this list. Paris and London are the top two withouth any doubt but I think cities like Amsterdam, Barcelona, Moscow and maybe even Milan are more visited than Berlin. Maybe even Frankfurt is more visited.


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## Dr. Dubai (Mar 22, 2004)

Forza Raalte said:


> Well, I actually don't think Berlin is in this list. Paris and London are the top two withouth any doubt but I think cities like Amsterdam, Barcelona, Moscow and maybe even Milan are more visited than Berlin. *Maybe even Frankfurt is more visited.*


No no no no no... No no no, no no, no no! Absolutely not!

Frankfurt does only attract some economics and of course skyscraper fans, which aren't a lot.

I would like to add Vienna, Praha, Istanbul, Rome and Istanbul to the list. 

But honestly I think Barcelona deserves the third place. The fourth place would be for Amsterdam of course


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

The numbers for Berlin in 2005:
6,46 million guests (nearly 2 million foreign guests)
14,62 million overnight stays (ca. 5 million by foreign guests)

source by the statistics office of Berlin

The top 5 german cities (in 2004)
1. Berlin
2. Munich
3. Hamburg
4. Frankfurt
5. Cologne
source 

But afaik meanwhile Hamburg has surpassed Munich in tourist numbers.


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## schmidt (Dec 5, 2002)

Tiaren said:


> ...are Paris, London and Berlin.
> Why are so much tourists interested in these three citys. Why would you chose this cities for your visit in Europe above others? What's so special...?
> 
> Do these cities symbolize Europe these days the most?


I thought 1st was Paris and Barcelona 2nd.


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## Forza Raalte (Sep 18, 2004)

Dr. Dubai said:


> No no no no no... No no no, no no, no no! Absolutely not!
> 
> Frankfurt does only attract some economics and of course skyscraper fans, which aren't a lot.
> 
> ...


I don't say the city of Frankfurt attracts that many tourists. The city is a hub for a lot of destinations in Frankfurt. I actually agree with you. A lot of people on this forum say/think that Frankfurt is such a great city, it really isn't. The skyline is wonderful but the city doesn't offer the metropolis feeling which you might expect from a city with such a great skyline. Frankfurts great skyscrapers are 95% commercial ones. Most of them are owned by big banking companies.


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## Forza Raalte (Sep 18, 2004)

schmidt said:


> I thought 1st was Paris and Barcelona 2nd.


Definatley not!! London attracts a lot of tourists all over the world. It is the #1 destination in Europe.


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

Forza Raalte said:


> I don't say the city of Frankfurt attracts that many tourists.


Infact I've never met a person (who has been to Frankfurt) who considers Frankfurt being a beautyful city.


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## Tiaren (Jan 29, 2006)

Berlin is *definitely* the third most visited city in Europe since 2004! You can surely trust me or this sources:

"Tourism boom in Berlin

Berlin, of course, is already becoming a European leader in tourism. With a record 15 million overnight stays in 2005, Berlin has become the third most visited city in Europe after London and Paris. Tourists now spend almost €3 billion a year in the German capital."

from:
Spiegel.de

"During the past few years, Berlin has changed more than any other city in the world. In 2004, around 5.92 million visitors spent 13.26 million nights by the Spree. This makes Berlin Europe's third most popular city after London and Paris. We warmly invite you to discover Europe's most exciting city with its unique atmosphere, attractions and history - and there is plenty to discover."

from:
berlin-tourist-information.de

"Berlin is Germany’s most-visited city and in 2004 surpassed Rome to become the third most popular destination in Europe."

from:
berlin-airport.de

And beautiful Rome follows on place 4.

Can we now come back to the topic?


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## SE9 (Apr 26, 2005)

Tiaren said:


> Why are so much tourists interested in these three citys.


There are because the cities have:

Beautiful Architecture - Eiffel Tower, Le Louvre, Big Ben, St. Pauls, the Reichstag etc.
Culture - West End, Theatres of Paris etc.
Shopping - Paris and London are fashion capitals. Berlin is also good for shopping I hear.
History - Brandenburg Gate, Palace of Versailles, Tower of London etc.
as well as nightlife etc.



Tiaren said:


> Do these cities symbolize Europe these days the most?


Its hard to find a city that overall symbolises Europe. For history you could say Rome or Athens, for finance London and Frankfurt, for the arts Paris etc.


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## BenL (Apr 24, 2006)

But that's the thing. You're pushed to find examples for Berlin, whereas they come easily for Paris and London. I've visited Berlin and I love it but it's anything but beautiful. The Bauhaus, second Reich, third Reich, Stalinist and modern architecture come together wonderfully but the effect is mismatched and rather ugly. That's its charm.

I don't think Paris has more going for it in "the arts" than London. London has the best theatre in the world, probably the best popular music scene in the world and some world class galleries. On the basis of just galleries, I'm sure Amsterdam comes pretty close to Paris. However, this is in danger of becoming city versus city...


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

Berlin is interesting especially for people interested in 20th century history.
And also interesting for people interested in alternative "bohemian" lifestyles and "underground" arts.


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

schmidt said:


> I thought 1st was Paris and Barcelona 2nd.


Me too and I was quite sure about it. But maybe you have also to differ, if the people come to visit a city for A - Business Reasons, B - Holidays, C - Day Trips, D - Transit. Frankfurt, Milano, Zurich, Moscow, Geneva, Köln, Berlin... have probably more attraction for A and D trippers


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

I think that all the cities you listed are pretty attractive for tourists. Some (Berlin, Milan, Moscow) more than others (Köln, Frankfurt), of course.

But... what to think of someone who has really seen the world and has not been to Vienna?


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

Grrrrrrrrr! I know I know - but at least I have seen Salzburg, Innsbruck, Bregenz and Villach :cheers: 

Vienna IS definitly on my list...

Berlin, Milan and Moscow are for sure also touristic places, but I think the number of people visiting the city for business reasons is higher. Maybe I am wrong.


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

Forza Raalte said:


> Definatley not!! London attracts a lot of tourists all over the world. It is the #1 destination in Europe.



Those statistics are based on hotel rooms rent by foreigners, greater London (7million) has more tourists than the city of Paris (2million), but Ile de France has more as a whole


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## DonQui (Jan 10, 2005)

Great, another London-Paris pissing contest! :banana:


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## Giorgio (Oct 9, 2004)

Forza Raalte said:


> Definatley not!! London attracts a lot of tourists all over the world. It is the #1 destination in Europe.


Well if we go by nations statistics, Paris would be well in the lead. After all, how many people visit france and UK without going to London/Paris.


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## Petronius (Mar 4, 2004)

Lisbon has 14 million overnight stays and 5 million tourists a year. I think you need to revise your data.


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## Tiaren (Jan 29, 2006)

Petronius said:


> Lisbon has 14 million overnight stays and 5 million tourists a year. I think you need to revise your data.


I am really getting tired of this...:-(

Imho are 15 million more than 14 million, right? So...what's the problem?
Berlins tourism is rising every year...and this year, the year of the Worldcup, there will be an new record.

Sorry, Berlin may not be as beautiful as other european capitals, but now its starting to outnumber those in tourism for other reasons   
Of course it wont catch up Paris or London, because theres a huuuuuge gap between those symbols of tourism and Berlin and the other capitals of Europe.

Maybe I should change this Topic in: just Paris an London... hno:


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## Aquarius (Aug 3, 2003)

Dublín is the third city with more overnight...
the top 10 in the 2003: London , Paris, dublin, roma, Madrid, Berlin, Barcelona,Praga, Vienna, and Amsterdam


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## nano (Jun 2, 2004)

In my opinion, Madrid is the first city in Spain, no Barcelona. I don´t know wich is the second o third in Europe, but before Barcelona, is Madrid.


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## Forza Raalte (Sep 18, 2004)

Aquarius said:


> Dublín is the third city with more overnight...
> the top 10 in the 2003: London , Paris, dublin, roma, Madrid, Berlin, Barcelona,Praga, Vienna, and Amsterdam


Dublin?! Why is that?


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## Dr. Dubai (Mar 22, 2004)

Kuesel said:


> Grrrrrrrrr! I know I know - but at least I have seen Salzburg, Innsbruck, Bregenz and Villach :cheers:


Haven't you been to Klagenfurt?

Also a beautiful city.


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## NothingBetterToDo (Sep 11, 2002)

Forza Raalte said:


> Dublin?! Why is that?


Dublin is a favourite attraction for Stag and Hen nights, and just general weekend getaways to go and get drunk. Lots of people from the Uk head over there on cheap flights from Ryanair.


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## Tiaren (Jan 29, 2006)

Yes of course...now its Dublin... hno: 
Is there ANY prove for this?

Wait, you wrote 2003! We do live in 2006!

I think I am going to open a Thread:

*BERLIN*, third most visited city in Europe! :tongue3:


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## Audiomuse (Dec 20, 2005)

From other countries
1London
2Paris
3Roma
4Barcelona
5Venice
6Berlin
7Praha
8Istanbul
9Wien
10Athena
11Amsterdam
12Bruxelles
13Munch
14Milano
15Moscow
Naples, Florence, Nice, Madrid, Warszawa, Lisbon, Edinburgh, Dublin, Budapest, and Copenhagen might come after in no particular order.


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## Audiomuse (Dec 20, 2005)

NothingBetterToDo said:


> Dublin is a favourite attraction for Stag and Hen nights, and just general weekend getaways to go and get drunk. Lots of people from the Uk head over there on cheap flights from Ryanair.


Ireland was a big disappointment for me, unfortunately.


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## nano (Jun 2, 2004)

sorry, is not exactly: the last spanish dossier about cities (no province, no region... only cities) in 2005-06 said that Madrid is the first spanish city, no Barcelona.


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## Aquarius (Aug 3, 2003)

Tiaren said:


> Yes of course...now its Dublin... hno:
> Is there ANY prove for this?
> 
> Wait, you wrote 2003! We do live in 2006!
> ...



I found the statistics of the year 2002 and 2003, If you don`t know the statistics of the year 2005, you can `t affirm that Berlin is the third city in europe..

1990 and 2002











2002 and 2003










do you know the overnights in dublin the last year?


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## Tiaren (Jan 29, 2006)

Aquarius said:


> I found the statistics of the year 2002 and 2003, If you don`t know the statistics of the year 2005, you can `t affirm that Berlin is the third city in europe..
> 
> 1990 and 2002
> 
> ...


You are just posting old lists...as you could read in 3 sources (first page,please scroll down) Berlin ranks on third place since 2004!

And here, again, another source I found...

"Berlin is Germany's most-visited city and in 2004 surpassed Rome to become the third most popular destination in Europe. In the summer of 2005, 90 airlines are flying to 149 destinations in 51 countries. The Berlin Airports are demonstrating record growth and, for the first time, have moved into third place in passenger count compared to other German airports. The market share for the three Berlin airports is 10 percent and at 18 percent, the location is growing almost three times as fast as the average German passenger airport. Beyond that, Berlin is the largest low-cost airport on continental Europe. The overall employment effect of the Berlin airports is already 33,600 jobs."

from:
www.thebirdgroup.com

please seach yourself on Google or elsewere. BERLIN RANKS THIRD PLACE!
Man, I really get tired of this...


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## Aquarius (Aug 3, 2003)

I show facts you show words. Dublin has more overninghts than Berlin, with one big difference. I don't think that in two years, the overnights have dropped from 19 million to 14.5 million like in Berlin the last year. This is reality the rest :blahblah:


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## Tiaren (Jan 29, 2006)

Even in your dreams Dublin can't compete with Berlin! :bash: 


:tongue3: :tongue3: :tongue3:


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

Aquarius said:


> I show facts...I don't think that in two years, the overnights have dropped from 19 million to 14.5 million


So your opinion = fact? Prove it with official numbers (with source) from the same year as Berlin's numbers to make your claim a fact.

Edit: I've found a trustworthy site with stats of 2004 for Dublin: from the official Dublin tourist site 
It states that in 2004 Dublin had 4,848 million tourists. Regarding overnight stays I don't find a table that clearly states this indicator. Instead approved room capacities and average lenght of stay.


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## Aquarius (Aug 3, 2003)

I found the 2004 stats...


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## PanaManiac (Mar 26, 2005)

*Paris, London and Rome (not necessarily in that order).*


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

Thanks Aquarius.
Now we can clearly see the rankings for 2004.
In terms of visitors (arrivals) it is as follows:
1. London
2. Paris
3. Berlin
4. Barcelona
5. Dublin
6. Amsterdam
7. Vienna
8. Prague
9. Munich
10. Hamburg
11. Milan
etc.

In terms of overnight stays:
1. London
2. Paris
3. Dublin
4. Rome
5. Berlin
6. Madrid
7. Barcelona
8. Prague
etc.


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

Where does this Dublin Nr. come from?! Do they count overnight stands if you are falling asleep in a pub under the table after too much Guiness??? :rofl:


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## Liwwadden (Nov 12, 2005)

Conclusion, 
1. London
2. Paris
3. Dublin (what I don't really understand, I mean nice city and all, but not thát good ..) / Berlin (what in my opinion is not strange or something, it's belongs in top 5 atleast)


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## Metropolitan (Sep 21, 2004)

double post.


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## Metropolitan (Sep 21, 2004)

Alright, according to official statistics in France, in 2004, there were 30.3 million _registered tourists_ in Paris, half of them (about 15 million) being international tourists (Source).

According to the UK Official statistics, in 2005, there were 26.3 million _tourists_ in London, 14.3 million of them being international tourists (Source).

Both claim to be the most visited city in the world according to those sources. :sleepy:


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

I can't believe that this discussion is really going on, and I find it even more surprising that anyone actually thinks they are accurate enough to debate on.

Tourism statistics are one of the most indecisive and fluctuating statistics out there. It's not like murder statistics. Someone is murdered, it's pretty damn clear cut and numbers can be devised. Tourists on the other hand are a complex thing and every single country deals with this differently.

For a start, what exactly defines a tourist? How far out from the city do they have to come from to decide if they are a tourist, or a visitor from the metro, or neighbouring region?

How long do they have to stay before they are considered a tourist? Or are they just visiting friends, going shopping or actually commuting or on business?

Do they have to stay at hotels, are day trips including, are visiting the surrounding metro areas included, what about those visiting for business, or to stay with family and friends. Is a person from Orleans who pops into Paris for a bit of sightseeing or shopping a tourist? Is a person from Portsmouth who does the same for London a tourist? To be a tourist, do you have to visit a tourist site?

Do you have to visit the city center, or just somewhere in the metro? Is someone who visits Windsor castle but never central London a tourist to London? Is someone who visits Disneyland but not Paris, a tourist to Paris?

How are tourists counted? Each country does this differently, people can enter France, visit Paris and never be registered or counted? The same for Britain. In the last 30 times I visited London, at least 20 of them my passport was never checked, and none of them that I can remember was my name marked down anywhere. When I stayed in Hotels in London, no details were ever kept about my address unless I paid by credit card - then was I a business traveller or tourist?

This discrepancy on how tourists are counted in different cities and countries can be seen where many American cities claim over 40million tourists a year (one place near the Mexican border claimed 75million), obviously they are using a very different definition than either London or Paris.

I also remember reading an official document from Birmingham (UK) council which claimed the city had over 51million tourists in one year (although a later document described them as "visitors") This is clear that it is using a different definition. Which is right, which is wrong.

This is why I think this whole thread is silly. It's one thing to list each cities official tourist numbers, but it's totally another to imagine it has any relevance comparing to a different city in another country, it's clear that they will have a different definition.

Which city has more tourists? London or Paris? We will simply never know. Even if both cities used exactly the same formula and covered the same area around each city it still wouldn't be accurate as you would never know who was actually a tourist, a visitor, a commuter or travelling on business, and a great deal of people would never be registered.


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## Tiaren (Jan 29, 2006)

Justme said:


> I can't believe that this discussion is really going on, and I find it even more surprising that anyone actually thinks they are accurate enough to debate on.
> 
> Tourism statistics are one of the most indecisive and fluctuating statistics out there. It's not like murder statistics. Someone is murdered, it's pretty damn clear cut and numbers can be devised. Tourists on the other hand are a complex thing and every single country deals with this differently.
> 
> ...


I think you are right!


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## Janis_LV (Aug 3, 2004)

No wonder - these three cities are capitals of three biggest economies in Europe plus fantastic places. Berlin is just taking the role that it deserves. It has so much to offer not only to stags, cheap-flying tourists that want to drink beer under palm trees, but really to everybody. Politicians, bussinese, clubbers, art and music lovers, indies and philistanes. The beauty of citie or palm trees as with Prague and Barcelona automatically does not guarentee the top. It must offer for everybody somethings and Berlin does it more than otehr cities and at world class. Beauty lovers dont go to the same city again again and again, unlike clubbers, art or concert lovers. That is the problem with Rome or Prague. Berlins advantage is that Berlin fans go to that city regularly again and again. Plus it is cheaper and exrtremelly well connected with cheap airlines and that makes it even easier.

So I am not surprised about ther results.


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## Muyangguniang (Sep 6, 2004)

why so many to London?
London is ugly compare to Paris


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

Muyangguniang said:


> why so many to London?
> London is ugly compare to Paris


Paris is certainly one of the most beautiful cities in the world. But Beauty isn't everything. There are many things that London has which attracts tourists. People don't only travel for beauty.

London is still very attractive though as a city.


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## Ludi (Mar 21, 2007)

1. London
2. Paris
3. Berlin
4. Barcelona
5. Dublin
6. Amsterdam
7. Vienna
8. Prague
9. Munich
10. Hamburg
11. Milan

Thats corect. i work in the Turismus and I know that this list is right.


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## TohrAlkimista (Dec 18, 2006)

you work in the tourism...and you say to me that ROME is not in the top 10!!!!!!!!! O.O


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## PedroGabriel (Feb 5, 2007)

TohrAlkimista said:


> you work in the tourism...and you say to me that ROME is not in the top 10!!!!!!!!! O.O


it is not correct, this thread sucks.uke:
Berlin is even under Lisbon. What about Paris and London, the metro or the city? are those really tourists or people working in there? :crazy:


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## Ludi (Mar 21, 2007)

PeterGabriel said:


> it is not correct, this thread sucks.uke:
> Berlin is even under Lisbon. What about Paris and London, the metro or the city? are those really tourists or people working in there? :crazy:


1. London
2.Paris
3.Berlin 

100% sure

the rest may be is wrong, but the top3 are right, to 100%


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## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

There is no way Berlin is third spot .
Paris is up there due to it's beauty .
London would be up there as a financial center .
Third woul possibly be Rome due to it's climate and Roman legacy or Madrid due to it's variety of architecture and a large foreign population going to witness its unbeatable nightlife .


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## Tubeman (Sep 12, 2002)

Boooring!


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