# Driving in Paris



## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

Last two weeks, I was on vacation in Germany. I decided to spend 3 days to see Paris, so I started my voyage from Mannheim straight to Paris. Not just Paris, but the very Avenue Pierre 1er de Serbie which is in Paris, 75 somewhere between Arc de Triomphe and Tour Eiffel (we stayed at Hotel de Sers)  I came to Paris from A4, so the pictures are in order of my arrival.

It was my personal greatest achievement in terms of driving because I have never driven in such a busy and famous location.

*Approaching Paris on A4. It is Saturday afternoon.



























We are heading straight for the city centre









I think it is somewhere right before Boulevard Périphérique


















Still aiming for the centre









Hooray, we are inside Périphérique. The traffic is still OK.


















The Seine is on the left









The picture does not show it good, but the traffic became very dense, ad all the scooter drivers took their chances millimetres from the cars. I had a rental car from Germany, so I was a bit worried to get scratched. Fortunately, I managed not to put a single scratch during the whole rental period.









We are lost due to poor navigation abilities of our GPS* :lol:










*It is Sunday morning. Going back to A4. Starting from the centre. The Seine is on the right.









The traffic was very light. I think this is Voie Georges Pompidou.









Quai François Mitterrand









As we drive away from the centre, the buildings become more contemporary.









We keep straight, and the road will become A4.*









Comments are welcome :cheers:


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## hofburg (Jun 27, 2009)

great! :cheers: nice photos. I was driving the same route in Paris once (beside Seine) only, I didn't come from outside. although I might soon do that to. 
Where were you staying in Germany? I guess you entered Paris at Bercy and then went straight ahead. although I don't understand how did you turn back for autoroute de l'est in Paris.


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## Minato ku (Aug 9, 2005)

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Hooray, we are inside Périphérique. The traffic is still OK.
> http://almikul.home.comcast.net/images/paris/paris_to8.jpg
> 
> http://almikul.home.comcast.net/images/paris/paris_to9.jpg
> :


This is not the Peripherique, we don't see the Peripherique in any of your picture. 
This road along the Seine is Quai de Bercy. 

Look at closer this picture


> http://almikul.home.comcast.net/images/paris/paris_to4


You took the direction Paris center, the direction to the peripherique is on the left.


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## hofburg (Jun 27, 2009)

I think he ment just that he is inside the ring, it s a bit confusing though.


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## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

Minato ku said:


> This road along the Seine is Quai de Bercy.


You are right. Actually, I have not paid attention what road I was on while driving because I was a bit overwhelmed by driving style of Parisians. What I did was going to google maps today to see the street names before posting this thread  And of course, the street along Seine would have to change its name numerous time just to render me wrong here :lol:


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## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

hofburg said:


> I think he ment just that he is inside the ring, it s a bit confusing though.


Thank you, that was exactly what I meant. I just did not know how you Parisians call the city within the Peripherique ring.



hofburg said:


> Where were you staying in Germany? I guess you entered Paris at Bercy and then went straight ahead.


I started driving to Paris from Mannheim, so I took autobahn 6 and then autoroute 4 all the way to Paris centre.


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## siamu maharaj (Jun 19, 2006)

Not a lot of traffic congestion in Paris, I see.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Thank you, that was exactly what I meant. I just did not know how you Parisians call the city within the Peripherique ring.


Paris  Only the urban area inside the Périphérique is actually the Paris city proper. The rest are slum suburbs and wealthy suburbs.




> I started driving to Paris from Mannheim, so I took autobahn 6 and then autoroute 4 all the way to Paris centre.


+A320 

Did you see anything from the U/C bypass at Reims?


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## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

ChrisZwolle said:


> +A320


To be technically correct - yes. However, A320 was quite short and served as a connection link between A6 and A4, so I omitted it.



> Did you see anything from the U/C bypass at Reims?


I did not really pay much attention because I was looking for speed cameras that were plenty in Reims  I just remember the road work zone when passing Reims.


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## GENIUS LOCI (Nov 18, 2004)

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> I think it is somewhere right before Boulevard Périphérique


Yep, it is this amazing interchange


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## juanico (Sep 30, 2005)

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> We are lost due to poor navigation abilities of our GPS :lol:


If your GPS navigator took you there it badly sucks! This is Rue des Ecoles corner heading towards Paris' Latin district while the correct route was simply to follow the quays.



Alex Von Königsberg said:


> The traffic was very light. I think this is Voie Georges Pompidou.


Actually this is Quai Henri IV, the Voie Georges Pompidou is the expressway underneath the esplanade on the right of your picture, but this part is closed to traffic on Sundays.




siamu maharaj said:


> Not a lot of traffic congestion in Paris, I see.


He was there on a Saturday afternoon which is OK traffic-wise, and a Sunday morning which is the quietest moment of the whole week. That is the reason, although apart from particular schedules (weekdays rush hours) we don't have to complain much compared with other metropolis.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

I noticed the GPS sometimes confuses roads that are very close to eachother. If I drive on a motorway with a local/express setup, it sometimes doesn't know if I'm on the local or express lanes.


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## juanico (Sep 30, 2005)

^^ Exactly, especially in this case where like I said, the expressway runs underneath the border of the street.


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## snowman159 (May 16, 2008)

juanico said:


> If your GPS navigator took you there it badly sucks! This is Rue des Ecoles corner heading towards Paris' Latin district while the correct route was simply to follow the quays.


That's very odd indeed. What address/street did you set as destination, Alex?
Is it possible the GPS chose an alternate route to avoid congestion? Otherwise, it really sucks.


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## crcorp (Feb 26, 2010)

Driving in Paris with not being used to the driving style of the Parisians can be quite a surprise . Living in Paris, but not being Parisian from origin, I also had to "learn" the Parisian way of driving. It's a quite agressive style, but you get used to it. It's almost necessary, for otherwise you're getting nowhere. 

Scooters and motorbikes are a real p**n in the *ss. I drive to my work every day using the Voie Georges Pompidou (really nice by the way, if anyone wants to see some pics, I'd be happy to take a series and post it).

Concerning scooters and motorbikes: I generally ignore them, for they're usually not obeying traffic rules (like driving between the lanes). They'll have to watch out themselves.

By the way, if you consider the amount of traffic "heavy", then I'd like to know how you call it during the morning rush hours .

Concerning picture #8 (where you see the Ministery of Finances of Bercy): I hope you paid attention to your speed, for you just passed a fixed radar there . But well, I don't know how this works with a rental car...

Anyway, I hope you enjoyed driving in Paris


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## hofburg (Jun 27, 2009)

^^ I would like to see photos of voie g. pompidou. 

anybody knows about that? http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_autoroutier_pour_Paris
The plan for highways inside Paris from 60s, but only the voie G.Pompidou was realized.
At the end you can read that political left of Paris would like to delete this expressway to.


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## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

snowman159 said:


> That's very odd indeed. What address/street did you set as destination, Alex?
> Is it possible the GPS chose an alternate route to avoid congestion? Otherwise, it really sucks.


I drove to Hotel de Sers which is at 41 Avenue Pierre 1er de Serbie. There were several left turns so close to each other that I took the wrong ones, and the GPS then tried to get me back on track. 

As for Paris not being congested on Saturday afternoons, for me it was even more congested than San Francisco during rush hours :lol: After driving in America for years, I was not used to such an aggressive driving style, but on the other hand it was a good experience. If I had to drive in Paris everyday, I guess I would eventually drive just like other Parisians.


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## CptSchmidt (Jan 7, 2010)

Great photos. Why are the lines in the first few photos yellow? Aren't they supposed to be white?


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

That's temporary marking. As you can see, the arrows and distances are in yellow as well. It looks to me the lanes are particular narrow as well.


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## juanico (Sep 30, 2005)

^^ there have been some works on this stretch of A4 since last summer (repavement, heightening of noise-walls), hence the temporary yellow lines.


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

crcorp said:


> Pont Mirabeau (still 16th district)


"Sous le pont Mirabeau coule la Seine
Et nos amours
Faut-il qu'il m'en souvienne
La joie venait toujours après la peine

Vienne la nuit sonne l'heure
Les jours s'en vont je demeure

Les mains dans les mains restons face à face
Tandis que sous
Le pont de nos bras passe
Des éternels regards l'onde si lasse

Vienne la nuit sonne l'heure
Les jours s'en vont je demeure

L'amour s'en va comme cette eau courante
L'amour s'en va
Comme la vie est lente
Et comme l'Espérance est violente

Vienne la nuit sonne l'heure
Les jours s'en vont je demeure

Passent les jours et passent les semaines
Ni temps passé
Ni les amours reviennent
Sous le pont Mirabeau coule la Seine

Vienne la nuit sonne l'heure
Les jours s'en vont je demeure"

*Guillaume Apollinaire* (1880 - 1918)


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

crcorp said:


> The flame in memory of Princess Diana who died tragically inside this underpass of the Place de l'Alma


:nono:

That flame is not in memory of Princess Diana. It already existed BEFORE the death of Princess Diana. It is the Flame of Liberty, a full-size replica of the flame at the upper end of the torch carried by the Statue of Liberty in NYC. It was offered to the city of Paris in 1989 by the International Herald Tribune, the culmination of that newspaper's 1987 celebration of its hundredth anniversary of publishing an English-language daily newspaper in Paris. That flame is a symbol of Franco-American friendship, and has nothing to do with Princess Diana.


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## hofburg (Jun 27, 2009)

thanks for that great historical explanation. kay:


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## crcorp (Feb 26, 2010)

Hofburg said:


> I didn't quite understand why the closed A6b is affecting Bercy, where exactly are the traffic jams? it's nothing nicer then sunday mornings in Paris.


The A6B is closed in the direction of Paris -> Province, thus people coming from the north-east who want to access the A6 highway are left with 2 out of the usual 3 alternatives:
- Use the Périphérique in order to join the A6A near the Porte d'Orléans, causing a traffic jam from the Porte de Bagnolet until the Porte d'Orléans
- Use the A86 ringway in order to join the A6 near Fresnes, causing a traffic jam from Thiais until Fresnes.



Brisavoine said:


> That flame is not in memory of Princess Diana. It already existed BEFORE the death of Princess Diana. It is the Flame of Liberty, a full-size replica of the flame at the upper end of the torch carried by the Statue of Liberty in NYC. It was offered to the city of Paris in 1989 by the International Herald Tribune, the culmination of that newspaper's 1987 celebration of its hundredth anniversary of publishing an English-language daily newspaper in Paris. That flame is a symbol of Franco-American friendship, and has nothing to do with Princess Diana.


You're right that the monument was not put there for Princess Diana as you pointed out. However, the monument is nowadays largely used as such. Even though it is a form of historical distortion, you cannot deny anymore that the one and only meaning of this monument is a symbol of Franco-American friendship.

Anyhow, "bravo" for the nice historical explanations on the progressive growth of Paris .


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

crcorp said:


> Anyhow, "bravo" for the nice historical explanations on the progressive growth of Paris .


And we haven't even touched on the borders of the Medieval city. None of von Königsberg's pics were taken inside the Medieval city (or perhaps on the way out, but it's hard to tell), so I couldn't show you were the Medieval wall was located (in fact there were three successive Medieval walls).


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

Here on this picture by Crcorp I have indicated where the Medieval wall of Paris stood (it's the 2nd city wall in that picture, i.e. the 12th century wall).










Just on the quai above the Voie Express George Pompidou stood the Tour Barbeau (Barbeau Tower), the first tower of the 12th century Medieval wall on the Right Bank. This sign below tells us that in the 16th century a tennis court called la Croix-Noire (the Black Cross) was built here at the base of the wall (possibly where the Avenue Express Georges Pompidou runs now). Tennis courts back in these days were covered with a roof and had terraces for spectators (jeu de paume, the ancestor of our modern tennis, was practiced by aristocrats and rich people). The famous French playwright Molière set up his theatre inside this tennis court in 1644 according to the sign.










In this map from 1550, you can still see the Tour Barbeau (the 12th century wall has already disappeared, absorbed within the buildings of Paris):









In this map from 1615 by Matthäus Merian, the tower had already disappeared:









Here a reconstructed view of the area in the 15th century:









Very near where Crcorp took his picture, a section of the 12th century wall is still visible (it had been absorbed within some buildings, so they destroyed part of the buildings after WW2 to make it visible again):


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## hofburg (Jun 27, 2009)

crcorp said:


> The A6B is closed in the direction of Paris -> Province, thus people coming from the north-east who want to access the A6 highway are left with 2 out of the usual 3 alternatives:
> - Use the Périphérique in order to join the A6A near the Porte d'Orléans, causing a traffic jam from the Porte de Bagnolet until the Porte d'Orléans
> - Use the A86 ringway in order to join the A6 near Fresnes, causing a traffic jam from Thiais until Fresnes.


aha. why they added A6b instead of widening original A6?


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## crcorp (Feb 26, 2010)

Thank you very much for that fine historical analysis brisavoine . It's a good thing that they open up old remnants of city walls. Although it is completely understandable that at the time people wanted to get rid of these things, but it is simply part of history and nowadays it would really look very nice to still have intact city walls .


hofburg said:


> aha. why they added A6b instead of widening original A6?


Because the A6a could not be widened as a result of surrounding buildings. The A6a and A6b run through a very densely populated area and they are completely surrounded by buildings. The A6b was originally intended to connect Paris to Rungis (where a huge market is located). However, nowadays it has merely a role of doubling the A6a for those coming from/going to the east, whereas the traffic on the A6a focuses most on those coming from/going to the west.

Some interesting information (in French) and historic pictures are available at the information web site for the renovation works : http://www.couverturea6b.fr


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## hofburg (Jun 27, 2009)

crcorp said:


> (in French)


that's even better as it was in english. 
nice video.


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## Sacré Coeur (Jan 6, 2008)

crcorp said:


> Nice
> Fortunately for you, you didn't see the effects of the A6B being closed for 8 months now (this is why you see the yellow tags placed over the signs). Usually there is now a big traffic jam in the middle two lanes to get onto the Périphérique Intérieur. Of course there are always ******* who try to push themselves into the line at the last moment, also blocking all lanes to the left (Paris) and right (Périph Extérieur).
> 
> By the way, if you took a TGV at Paris-Lyon, it "only" runs at 300 km/h. The 320 km/h is only on the LGV-Est-Européenne (trains departing from Paris-Est). Anyway, if you start driving just after a trip by TGV, everything seems to be going slooooooow


The average speed between Paris Gare de Lyon to Le Creusot TGV (LGV Sud Est) is a bit less than 300km/h (389km in between 1h18 and 1h21). It is not unrealistic that the maximum speed is around 320/330 km/h.


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## hofburg (Jun 27, 2009)

yeap, I passed by le creusot


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