# the most expensive city in price



## snife2005 (May 16, 2005)

Oslo is by far the most expensive place to go on holiday, food and drink cost a fortune and an hours public bus ride cost 20 pounds. Beer was also extortionate. About 5 pounds for one, double the average London price. When i went to Tokyo 4 years ago i didn't find it too expensive, probably similar to London.


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## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

The price per square foot for residential property is the most expensive in NY. It averages about $1,200 per square foot and for some developments, it is $5,000 per square foot.


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## Bitxofo (Feb 3, 2005)

Tokyo.
:yes:


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## wjfox (Nov 1, 2002)

LLoydGeorge said:


> The price per square foot for residential property is the most expensive in NY. It averages about $1,200 per square foot and for some developments, it is $5,000 per square foot.


The *average* price might make it the most expensive. However, I know for a 100% fact London has certain houses and neighbourhoods which are far more expensive than anything in New York. Kensington Palace Gardens, for example, is the most expensive neighbourhood in the world and there are houses there worth over $160m.


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## Emirati_Girl (Apr 26, 2006)

Of course without any doubt TOKYO


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## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

wjfox2002 said:


> The *average* price might make it the most expensive. However, I know for a 100% fact London has certain houses and neighbourhoods which are far more expensive than anything in New York. Kensington Palace Gardens, for example, is the most expensive neighbourhood in the world and there are houses there worth over $160m.


That's not even an area per se such as South Kensington, Mayfair, Belgravia, etc. Moreover, if you post the 20 most expensive properties currently for sale there (if there are even 20 in that "area"), I guarantee that, on average, they're less expensive than the 20 most expensive properties currently for sale on the Upper East Side.


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## wjfox (Nov 1, 2002)

To be honest, I find that difficult to believe. London's house prices at the top end of the market are absolutely, well-and-truly astronomical.


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## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

Post the 20 most expensive properties currrently for sale in Kensington Palace Gardens, and then I'll do the same for the UES.

In fact, here are the 20 most expensive properties currently for sale on one agent's website (www.brownharrisstevens.com): 

[1] FIFTH AVENUE COOPERATIVE 

Listing ID: 364979
Price: $70,000,000
Bedrooms: 5
Baths: 7.0

Elizabeth Lee Sample
212 906-9299 
Brenda Powers
212 906-9237 

[2] PARK AVENUE CONDOMINIUM 

Listing ID: 491235
Price: $49,000,000
Bedrooms: 9
Baths: 9.0

Kathleen M. Sloane
212 906-9258 

[3] PARK AVENUE CONDOMINIUM 
Listing ID: 407463
Price: $35,000,000
Bedrooms: 5
Baths: 5.5

Kathleen M. Sloane
212 906-9258 

[4] EAST 67TH STREET TOWNHOUSE 

Listing ID: 265338
Price: $34,000,000

Sami Hassoumi
212 906-9267 

[5] EAST 67TH STREET TOWNHOUSE 
Listing ID: 415871
Price: $32,000,000

C. Graham Uffelman
212 317-7726 


[6] PARK AVENUE CONDOMINIUM 
Listing ID: 431659
Price: $31,500,000
Bedrooms: 5
Baths: 5.5

Kathleen M. Sloane
212 906-9258 


[7] EAST 62ND STREET TOWNHOUSE 
Listing ID: 101782
Price: $31,000,000

Paula Del Nunzio
212 906-9207 

[8] RIVERSIDE DRIVE TOWNHOUSE 
Listing ID: 467206
Price: $31,000,000

Diane Abrams
212 588-5605 
Felise Gross
212 588-5681 

[9] PARK AVENUE TOWNHOUSE 
Listing ID: 443097
Price: $30,000,000

Brian J. Manning
212 906-9251 

[10] CPW CONDOMINIUM 
Listing ID: 425501
Price: $29,900,000
Bedrooms: 6
Baths: 6.0

Elizabeth Lee Sample
212 906-9299 
Brenda Powers
212 906-9237 


[11] CPW CONDOMINIUM 
Listing ID: 228094
Price: $29,750,000
Bedrooms: 6
Baths: 8.0

Paula Del Nunzio
212 906-9207 

[12] EAST 82ND STREET TOWNHOUSE 
Listing ID: 439239
Price: $27,900,000

Sami Hassoumi
212 906-9267 

[13] PARK AVENUE COOPERATIVE 
Listing ID: 449679
Price: $27,500,000
Bedrooms: 2
Baths: 3.5

Carel Corcoran
212 906-9239 
John Burger
212 906-9274 

[14] CPW COOPERATIVE 
Listing ID: 470368
Price: $25,000,000
Bedrooms: 5
Baths: 6.5

John A. Sheets
212 906-9359 

[15] EAST 69TH STREET TOWNHOUSE 
Listing ID: 439493
Price: $25,000,000

Paula Del Nunzio
212 906-9207 
C. Graham Uffelman
212 317-7726 

[16] EAST 70TH STREET TOWNHOUSE 
Listing ID: 272151
Price: $25,000,000

Paula Del Nunzio
212 906-9207 

[17] EAST 75TH STREET TOWNHOUSE 
Listing ID: 421454
Price: $24,750,000

Sami Hassoumi
212 906-9267 

[18] COLUMBUS CIRCLE CONDOMINIUM 
Listing ID: 396879
Price: $20,950,000
Bedrooms: 4
Baths: 7.0

Elizabeth Lee Sample
212 906-9299 
Brenda Powers
212 906-9237 

[19] PARK AVENUE COOPERATIVE 
Listing ID: 455974
Price: $20,070,000
Bedrooms: 3
Baths: 4.5

Kathleen M. Sloane
212 906-9258 

[20] PARK AVENUE COOPERATIVE 
Listing ID: 452957
Price: $20,000,000
Bedrooms: 5
Baths: 6.5

Nancy J. Elias
212 906-9275


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## Madman (Dec 29, 2003)

LLoydGeorge said:


> Post the 20 most expensive properties currrently for sale in Kensington Palace Gardens, and then I'll do the same for the UES.


They very rarely come on the market or should i say open market so its very hard to gauge the prices of those houses. I imagine though that New York and london prices are pretty similar at the top end - even the superich will generally only pay a certain amount for a house, in London i imagine this is around the £25 million mark ($45 million).


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## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

Madman said:


> ... I imagine though that New York and london prices are pretty similar at the top end....


That may be true. Also, the megarich people who own $25m+ properties in NY and London probably own properties in both cities, together with a few other international hotspots.


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## globocentric (Jun 14, 2005)

According to official statistics, it's tokyo


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## coldstar (Jan 14, 2003)

snife2005 said:


> Oslo is by far the most expensive place to go on holiday, food and drink cost a fortune and an hours public bus ride cost 20 pounds. Beer was also extortionate. About 5 pounds for one, double the average London price. When i went to Tokyo 4 years ago i didn't find it too expensive, probably similar to London.


right
Those who actually have been to Tokyo usually agree with you. 



globocentric said:


> According to official statistics, it's tokyo


The statistics are always delusive, based on the prices of Western foods, Western clothes etc. in Tokyo.


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## _zner_ (May 24, 2005)

london for me...


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## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

As noted in the following article in the May 25, 2006 edition of the NY Post, apartments in 15 CPW, which is still under construction, are selling for $6,500 per sqaure foot.

www.nypost.com
May 25, 2006 -- 15 Central Park West prices head north

While the glut of condo projects is causing some developers to discount their apartments, many of the high-end properties are still pulling in top dollar. 

One example is 15 Central Park West, a two-tower complex now under construction on the former Mayflower Hotel site. According to our sources, a 6,000-plus-square-foot apartment there has gone to contract for more than $40 million - that's about $6,500 per square foot. 

The single-floor penthouse residence in the shorter of the towers, the one on CPW, boasts approximately 160 feet of frontage on the park and two terraces. Foot for foot, the place is more expensive than Daniel Loeb's penthouse in the taller tower, for which he paid $45 million. And it's far pricier than the $12 million unit that Denzel Washington just bought.


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## Marathoner (Oct 1, 2005)

LLoydGeorge said:


> As noted in the following article in the May 25, 2006 edition of the NY Post, apartments in 15 CPW, which is still under construction, are selling for $6,500 per sqaure foot.
> 
> www.nypost.com
> May 25, 2006 -- 15 Central Park West prices head north
> ...


Is that $6,500 per square foot the most expensive in NYC?

We HK got $4,000 per square foot as the most expensive apartment which is the penthouse of THE ARCH. It has the typical panomaric view of the Victoria Harbour you usually see in the post cards. The remaining penthouses of THE ARCH is believed to be sold at a higher price in this summer.

For hosues, the current record is about $4,230 per square foot


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## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

I doubt that it's the most expensive, but it's very much on the high end.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

I certainly agree that Housing costs are enormous in London, but when I travel there, I don't find the city itself to be expensive. Travel costs are about par with Frankfurt (when you take into account distance travelled, and as long as you use the oyster card and don't leave the city proper), as for everything else, they are much the same as Frankfurt, beer in pubs, restaurants etc. Takeaway foods can be cheaper in London, as many other purchases such as books, CD's and DVD's, but TV's, stereo's and camera's are slightly cheaper in Frankfurt.

I find London Supermarkets are a bit cheaper than Frankfurts, but that depends on the products bought. 

Movie tickets in central London, especially around Leicester Square are terribly expensive, but suburban cinema's are on par with Frankfurt.

Travelling abroad is cheaper from London (which is something I do a lot) but travelling short distances out to London's metropolitan area is very expensive.

Then again, taxes are lower in the UK and wages in London are higher than in Frankfurt. One of the main differences, is that I can afford an apartment in central Frankfurt, but I don't think I could afford one in central London. Of cause, Frankfurt is a much smaller city so this has something to do with it.


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## Greg (Nov 9, 2003)

Zurich may be one of the most expensive cities in the world, but its citizens have more money to play with than anyone else.
A recent study shows that even though prices in Zurich are the fifth highest in international comparison, the city enjoys the world's greatest purchasing power.
The study conducted by Switzerland’s biggest bank, UBS, compared salaries and prices in 70 countries around the globe.
It found that the Norwegian capital Oslo is the most expensive city, closely followed by Hong Kong, Tokyo and New York.
Zurich ranks fifth, but - along with other Swiss cities Basel, Geneva and Lugano - has the highest purchasing power. 
Tokyo has lost its status as most expensive city in the world, dropping down to third place since the last survey three years ago. 
UBS economists blamed deflation and the depreciation of the Japanese yen for this development.
Basket of goods
In Oslo a basket of commodities of 111 goods and services costs SFr3,290 ($2,370), 18 per cent more than in Zurich and about twice the price in the Hungarian capital, Budapest.
However, the goods in the basket are not representative for all countries and if local products replaced the expensive Swiss goods the price of the basket would drop significantly, the report’s compilers said.
To put the different price levels into perspective the UBS study compares salaries, non-wage labour costs and working hours of 13 different professions in the 70 countries.
Employees in Zurich, Copenhagen, Basel, Oslo and Geneva earn the highest salaries before tax, while employees in US cities are taking home less as a result of the weak dollar.
Tokyo has turned out to be the biggest loser as the former number one has dropped down to 12th place when it comes to salary levels.
Converted into Swiss francs gross salaries in Tokyo are about one-third lower than in Zurich.
Purchasing power
The UBS report attaches most significance to purchasing power, which does not take exchange rates into account.
Buying power in Japan is about 25 per cent below Zurich’s - three years ago the difference between the two cities was only 14 per cent.
To put purchasing power into perspective the study suggests comparing the price of a homogenous product with the average hourly wage of individual countries.
The study found that people in Zurich have to work 14 minutes to buy a Big Mac - the hamburger available around the world - whereas it takes employees in the Latvian capital Riga 50 minutes of labour to purchase the same item. 
Even worse off are the Kenyans. They have to work for more than three hours to pay for a Big Mac in the capital, Nairobi.


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## Marathoner (Oct 1, 2005)

Greg said:


> Zurich may be one of the most expensive cities in the world, but its citizens have more money to play with than anyone else.
> A recent study shows that even though prices in Zurich are the fifth highest in international comparison, the city enjoys the world's greatest purchasing power.
> The study conducted by Switzerland’s biggest bank, UBS, compared salaries and prices in 70 countries around the globe.
> It found that the Norwegian capital Oslo is the most expensive city, closely followed by Hong Kong, Tokyo and New York.
> ...


I think HK ranked that high mostly due to the property price. HK property prices are among the most expensive in the major world cities. HK may not have the most expensive apartment ($ per square foot) in the world but the properties there are highly priced in general. Except some in the remote areas or those badly maintained. HK doesn't have many apartments that are "cheap".


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## Skyman (Jan 4, 2006)

Tokyo and London of course but I could say that there many other cities having high prices and less 
for the same services


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## Brad (May 19, 2006)

Guys, don't argue!
The whole job has been done by others  
Just use google or yahoo.  
1 Oslo, Norway 
2 Tokyo, Japan 
3 Osaka/Kobe, Japan 
4 Reykjavík, Iceland 
5 Paris, France 
6 Copenhagen, Denmark 
7 London, United Kingdom 
8 Zurich, Switzerland 
9 Geneve, Switzerland 
10 Helsinki, Finland 
14 Hong Kong, China 
16 Dublin, Republic of Ireland 
27 New York City, United States of America 
27 Duesseldorf, Germany 
29 Moscow, Russia 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_cities
PS The list changes every year.


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## Harkeb (Oct 12, 2004)

Oslo is now the world's most expensive city


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## dhuwman (Oct 6, 2005)

World's most expensive cities (2005)

1 Tokyo, Japan 
2 Osaka, Japan 
3 London, United Kingdom 
4 Moscow, Russia 
5 Seoul, South Korea 
6 Geneva, Switzerland 
7 Zurich, Switzerland 
8 Copenhagen, Denmark 
9 Hong Kong, Hong Kong 
10 Oslo, Norway 
11 Milan, Italy 
12 Paris, France 
13 New York City, United States 
13 Dublin, Ireland 
15 St. Petersburg, Russia 
16 Vienna, Austria 
17 Rome, Italy 
18 Stockholm, Sweden 
19 Beijing, China 
20 Sydney, Australia 
20 Helsinki, Finland 

http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/21/pf/costliest_cities/


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## silly thing (Aug 9, 2004)

I never believe those rankings saying asian cities like tokyo and hong kong are expensive as those things are bias and overstate asian cities' price level by using western point of view

in fact, anyone here have been to tokyo? or just judging by those ridiculous rankings?

i have been to jyvaskyle and helsinki in finland and oslo, THEY ARE MUCH MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE THAN TOKYO!

and hong kong, well, i find that the import goods here are the cheapest generally in our earth as there is no sales tax and import tax


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## bayviews (Mar 3, 2006)

dhuwman said:


> World's most expensive cities (2005)
> 
> 1 Tokyo, Japan
> 2 Osaka, Japan
> ...


Moscow & St. Peterburg on a list of worlds' most expensive cities. Expensive for whom? Millionaries. Must be. Otherwise how could 15 million or more Russians afford to live these cities!


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## bayviews (Mar 3, 2006)

dhuwman said:


> World's most expensive cities (2005)
> 
> 1 Tokyo, Japan
> 2 Osaka, Japan
> ...


Moscow & St. Peterburg on a list of worlds' most expensive cities? Expensive for whom? Millionaries? 

Must be. Otherwise how could 15 million or more Russians with average incomes of say 10k or less afford to live these cities!


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## coldstar (Jan 14, 2003)

dhuwman said:


> World's most expensive cities (2005)
> 
> 1 Tokyo, Japan
> 2 Osaka, Japan
> ...


no way


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## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

According to the following article from the June 9, 2006 edition of TheRealDeal.net, apartments in the Plaza are selling for $6,000 per sq. foot.

"Buying sight unseen at the Plaza:
Developer Elad Properties shrouds marketing in secrecy; condos at least one-third sold, brokers say"

By Lauren Elkies


Elizabeth Lorenzo of Stribling & Associates, exclusive sales agent for the Plaza. Condominium units at the storied Plaza Hotel can still be had for a hefty price, but how many of them are unsold remains unclear. So does an actual look at the multimillion-dollar apartments, thanks to a marketing campaign that denies potential buyers a visit to the palatial residential units.

Instead, would-be buyers view a CD of the famed landmark building at One Central Park South. The short film, featuring a dramatic musical score, is a compendium of promotional material that shows what the refurbished Plaza will look like -- inside and out. The publicity effort includes viewing computerized floor plans of the 182 apartments, which have price tags of up to $39.5 million.

Brokers of exclusive properties say this approach is perhaps a bit too exclusive, but that doesn't stop folks in the business from talking about the Plaza units.

"I feel that not disclosing and having this kind of vagueness is going to be counterproductive," and raises more questions, said Louise Phillips Forbes, a senior vice president at Halstead Property. "It's OK to be a little vague," she said, but "people want to feel that they are not the only people pulling the trigger."

Roger Erickson, senior managing director at Sotheby's International Realty, said he heard from one Stribling & Associates real estate agent that 30 percent of the apartments have signed contracts (no one has closed on a deal yet). Another agent told him 50 percent.

"What I have heard is that the sales have been going pretty well," said Andrew Gerringer, managing director of the Prudential Douglas Elliman Development Marketing Group, which has represented Plaza owner Elad Properties in other deals. "They're probably at least 50 percent sold," he estimated, with the majority selected on the Central Park side rather than on the Fifth Avenue or courtyard sides.

"We've sold really well throughout the building," said Elizabeth Lorenzo, a broker specialist with Stribling, the exclusive sales and marketing agent for the private residences at the Plaza. She declined to reveal the number of available apartments, saying that the number is always evolving.

The one- to five-bedroom condominiums range from 800 to 6,300 square feet and command prices of between $2.2 million and $39.5 million. Three apartments available in early May were apartment 2009, a $39.5 million four-bedroom penthouse triplex; apartment 2001, a four-bedroom duplex with an asking price of $29.5 million; and apartment 913, a two-bedroom apartment for $7.7 million.

Buyers have hailed from places as disparate as Manhattan's Park and Fifth avenues, Georgia, Boston, California, Russia, Italy and Ireland, Lorenzo said.

Some potential buyers rejected the Plaza because of the unknowns, brokers said.

"I feel it's necessary to stand in the place to get a feeling about it," especially when it runs in the multi-million dollar price range, said Cheryl Tanenbaum, a broker for CMT Private Real Estate.

A senior vice president and managing director of Brown Harris Stevens, Kathleen Sloane, said that while potential buyers appreciate the top-notch hotel services, including a one-touch virtual concierge, the apartments are "very pricey," especially as a pied-a-terre. In addition, she said, "there are a limited number of apartments in the Plaza with superior views."

Forbes of Halstead said, "I think the community of New Yorkers aren't really sure who their neighbors will be and that's a concern for them." Also, some of her clients were turned off early when they were told they could not choose from the entire inventory because apartments were strategically withheld from the market or they were already taken. "They are particularly wealthy people that would consider buying when they had the pick of the litter," she said.

Elad purchased the 805-room hotel for $675 million in 2004. The hotel was shuttered April 30 to undergo $350 million in renovations to restore the entire hotel, including the Palm Court and the Oak Bar and Room, to its 1907 grandeur. A two-story penthouse is being added to the 19-story building, and a private center courtyard is being built on the fifth floor. In addition to the private residences, there will be retail space and 282 hotel rooms and suites, 152 of which will be available for purchase for short-term stays while functioning other times as part of the hotel. The restored Plaza is scheduled to partially open in early 2007 with a grand opening in time for the hotel's 100th anniversary that October.

"The Plaza really speaks to someone -- beside the location -- that loves that building -- that kind of building," said Nellie Wilson, a senior associate broker at the Corcoran Group. The hotel "epitomizes traditional New York," and that appealed to one of her overseas clients, who purchased a pied-a-terre in the Plaza early in the year.

To some degree, investing millions of dollars for an apartment you have never seen requires an act of faith.

"You place a certain amount of trust in the developer and the people who are representing the developer," Wilson said.

The allure of the Plaza is "partially the magic, partially the view, partially the fact it's a condo," said Edward Lee Cave, who owns a high-end boutique firm of the same name. He brokered a deal at the Plaza for a Manhattan couple in April. "You're buying a piece of history," Cave said. The couple settled on a two-bedroom apartment overlooking Central Park. "They said the shoe fits," Cave said, and plunked down the asking price of more than $10 million.


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## ROYU (Jul 19, 2004)

For me the most expensive are London or Tokyo. I haven't visit Oslo and Zurich is not that expensive.


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## Un known (Feb 7, 2006)

These rankings use different methods. The one posted by dhuwman takes the most expensive things you find in the city. So the ranking actuallt means that the most expensive stuff can be found in Tokyo. Moscow and St.Petersburg are on the list because plenty of luxury stuff is available there. The index does not use average prices for an average consumer. There is another index which actuallt uses consumer prices.


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## _00_deathscar (Mar 16, 2005)

When you're comparing with Asian cities, it matters greatly whether you're looking at the local style of living or the 'expat' style of living.

For the expat style of living, no doubt Hong Kong is one of the THE most expensive cities in the world, as costs for things such as homes, schools (private schools) and so on add up.

Day to day commodities such as transport and super market shopping are relatively cheap in HK though, although food at western restaurants is horrendously overpriced, as is a 'night out' drinking.


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## _00_deathscar (Mar 16, 2005)

silly thing said:


> and hong kong, well, i find that the import goods here are the cheapest generally in our earth as there is no sales tax and import tax


Perhaps, but house prices cut into a very sizeable amount of one's income, and only the likes of New York, London and Tokyo match Hong Kong when it comes to real estate.


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## you_no (May 21, 2006)

World's Most Expensive Cities | Food for Thought 2006/02/01 23:30 


Cost of living in selected cities 
Rank City Index Rank City Index 

1 Oslo, Norway 140
2 Tokyo 136 
3 Reykjavik, Iceland 135 
4 Osaka/Kobe, Japan 130 
4 Paris 130 
6 Copenhagen, Denmark 127 
7 London 125 
8 Zurich, Switzerland 123 
9 Geneva 116 
10 Helsinki, Finland 115 
11 Vienna, Austria 113 
12 Frankfurt, Germany 111 
13 Seoul, South Korea 110 
14 Hong Kong 109 
14 Munich, Germany 109 
16 Dublin, Ireland 108 
16 Sydney, Australia 108 
19 Berlin 106 
19 Melbourne, Australia 106 
27 New York 100 
29 Auckland, New Zealand 98 
29 Moscow 98 
32 Brisbane, Australia 96 
32 Wellington, New Zealand 96 
35 Chicago 95 


Source: Economist Intelligence Unit



Hmmm...don't know how they measure this since I feel like living in San Francisco is more expensive than Hong Kong. Maybe it's real estate, but SF is out of control. I couldn't find a place

as nice as I live in now for the same price in SF. Or maybe it's the ratio of income to cost of living.


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## Toks1 (Apr 30, 2006)

Tokyo for sure


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## _00_deathscar (Mar 16, 2005)

You think San Francisco's Real Estate is more expensive than Hong Kong's?


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## Marathoner (Oct 1, 2005)

_00_deathscar said:


> You think San Francisco's Real Estate is more expensive than Hong Kong's?


when talking about properties, hk is in the class of nyc, london & tokyo.
it's logical, land selling is one of the major revenue for the government of hk. so, property price is like a kind of indirect tax for the people of hk.


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## Mr Bricks (May 6, 2005)

I read an article in today´s paper about London. It is getting cheaper and cheaper to travel to London by plane but the city is INCREDIBLY expensive. Just look at this:

You have to pay £6 (10€)if you want to to travel a 5 min distance from Heathrow to the English countryside in a run-down train (God save us from the private traintraffic).

It costs you 8€ to travel from Heathrow to London by the underground!

Madame Tussauds entrence fare is 23.99£

The Tower 14.50£ (25€)

Westminster Abby 10£

St Paul´s Cathedral 9£

The London eye 25£ (40€)!!!

Plus everything else you want to do, it´s craz


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## silly thing (Aug 9, 2004)

Marathoner said:


> when talking about properties, hk is in the class of nyc, london & tokyo.
> it's logical, land selling is one of the major revenue for the government of hk. so, property price is like a kind of indirect tax for the people of hk.


half of hk population living in public housing and that is very cheap in any standard so if u consider this point, hk's property price is not that expensive as it is to target middle class and upper class, however, the big 3's property average price is shared by all classes, thus it's hard to compare them to hk as hk has a different situation


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

I paid 21 pounds to go from Glasgow to London by train - 5+ hours. Meanwhile, a 45 minute ride from Liverpool Street to Stansted Airport costs 15 pounds (10 with Ryanair discount).

I think it's just London that is insanely expensive. The rest of the UK isn't too bad.


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## Mosaic (Feb 18, 2005)

That would be Tokyo and Oslo


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## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

I don't know about the Tokyo or HK property markets, but (excluding them perhaps), Manhattan is in a league of its own. 

Here's a story from the June 12, 2006 edition of cityrealty.com about a mediocre new building in a mediocre area. A similar two bedroom in Chicago, for example, would cost about $2m less.

Anyway, here's the story:

"Occupancy has begun at Place 57 on East 57th Street"
12-JUN-06 

Occupancy has begun at Plaza 57, the 36-story residential condominium, midblock tower at 207 East 57th Street. 
All but two of the 68 apartments have been sold and work on the lobby is being completed. A two-bedroom unit is available for about $2,395,000 and a three-bedroom apartment is available for about $3,175,000. 

The blue-glass-clad west, north and south facades of the building, which has an angled plan and is slightly cantilevered at its northwest corner are finished and add considerable sparkle to this midtown location. The east façade is windowless and not glass-clad as it is a “party wall.” 

Ismael Leyva was the architect and the developer is The Clarett Group. 

The building has a 24-hour doorman, a fitness center, a residents’ lounge, a children’s playroom, individual storage units and a concierge service is available. Working in partnership with famed crystal maker Baccarat, features include a lobby with crystal lighting and decor and an outdoor garden ornamented with chandeliers. Both are designed by interior designer Vicente Wolf. 

The site was formerly occupied by the Sutton movie theater. 

Clarett recently developed the 64-unit Opus at 2770 Broadway on the Upper West Side and is building Sky House, a 55-story condominium tower at 11 East 29th Street and Chelsea House, a 13-story condominium project at 130 West 19th Street Its other projects have included the handsome Post Luminaria at 385 First Avenue at 23rd Street.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

SuomiPoika said:


> I read an article in today´s paper about London. It is getting cheaper and cheaper to travel to London by plane but the city is INCREDIBLY expensive. Just look at this:


Although I agree many things in London are expensive, I find your points to actually be quite uneducated and certainly lacking any real homework. You should check out your statements before you publish them. Let's have a look.



SuomiPoika said:


> You have to pay £6 (10€)if you want to to travel a 5 min distance from Heathrow to the English countryside in a run-down train (God save us from the private traintraffic).


Where did you get this one from. There are three train services from London, and none go to the countryside. Do you mean the underground? This goes straight to central London. Do you mean the mainline services? Heathrow Express and Heathrow connect? Both these go either to central London, or the central suburbs. These are the only trains from Heathrow. How do they cost €10 for a 5minute journey to the countryside, and do they really look run down to you?












SuomiPoika said:


> It costs you 8€ to travel from Heathrow to London by the underground!


€8. Well, with an Oyster card, which most Londoners probably have by now it costs as follows:
On-Peak: £3.50 (€5.12)
Off Peak: £2.00 (€2.93)
Without Oyster: £4.00 (€5.86)
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tickets/2006/single/tubedlr.shtml
Night bus, £1 for Oyster cards, £1.50 for non card holders. 

*So, really, what part of your imagination did you get €8 from?* 

How does that compare to other places? Well, let's check your own country and Helsinki.
Helsinki's international airport is 15km from central London and the only service is by bus which costs €3.60. That's more expensive than the night bus, or an off-peak Tube train.
http://wikitravel.org/en/Helsinki

Sydney A$12 (€7.13 for train)
New York (AirTrain then Subway) $7 (€5.56)
Paris Charles de Gaulle €8 RER
Rome Leonardo da Vinci (Train express €9.50, Metropoloitan Train €6, Terrevision bus, €9)

Let's be honest here. Heathrow isn't expensive to get to London unless you want to use the Heathrow Express service, which is a high speed train that only takes 15minutes.



SuomiPoika said:


> Madame Tussauds entrence fare is 23.99£


Actually, £20.95 (link) and this really is the most expensive rip off in London.



SuomiPoika said:


> The Tower 14.50£ (25€)
> 
> Westminster Abby 10£
> 
> St Paul´s Cathedral 9£


Do you realize how much it costs to maintain such old, massive and magnificient buildings? Those costs are quite fair.



SuomiPoika said:


> The London eye 25£ (40€)!!!


No, it's £13! Do your homework
http://www.londoneye.com/planner/prices.asp?section=plan&secondnav=prices



SuomiPoika said:


> *Plus everything else you want to do, it´s craz*


Everything right?
Let's see:

British Museum: Free
Victoria & Albert Museum: Free
Science Museum: Free
Tate Gallery: Free
National Gallery: Free

How many major cities have so many great muesums for free?

Yes, some things in London are quite expensive, but other things are also quite cheap. There is no need to make things up to prove your own lack of knowledge in these area's.

Some more:
Imperial War Museum: Free
Museum of London: Free
National Maritime Museum and Royal Observatory: Free
The Natural History Museum: Free

.... I could keep going on, but here is a complete list of free muesums in London: http://www.londonfreelist.com/listings.asp?cat=muse,Museums 
Now compare this with a list of free museums in your city ;O)

Then, if you run out of time, visit some of the free galleries here:
http://www.londonfreelist.com/listings.asp?cat=gal,Galleries

Yes, London can be very expenisve. Property is especially dear there. But most other things average themselves out on par. The problem is, many tourists don't know these things. They book the cheap airlines that go to the furthest out airports are don't realize the extra costs from those airports. In many cases, a BA flight can be booked for only a bit more, and if you land in Heathrow or City airport, the transport costs are fair.

Hotels can also be excellent value, if you know where to look. I just booked 7 nights in August in Central london at the Hilton in Kensington for £33 a night! (link That's an amazing offer, and I can't find a Hilton in central New York for anything that cheap in August (peak summer rates) 

Once you know the tricks, London isn't as expensive as it first looks.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

SuomiPoika said:


> (God save us from the private traintraffic).


You've obviously never been to Japan.


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## Mr Bricks (May 6, 2005)

Justme, i haven´t been to London myself, the facts i have are just something a guy who had been there wrote about because he was shocked at the prises there. Thanks for the corrections


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## SE9 (Apr 26, 2005)

Justme said:


> Let's see:
> 
> British Museum: Free
> Victoria & Albert Museum: Free
> ...



Yep, can I throw in that:

*For Under 16s, travel within the whole city (Trains/Underground/Buses/Trams/Light Rail) for a day is £2

*From September 2006, *bus travel free for under-18s.*

*Under-16s pay no more than £1 for using the Underground and Light Rail.

*Adults can travel as much as they want on buses and trams with Oyster for £3.50.

Also, price capping means that after you make a certain amount of journeys in a day, the rest of the journeys you make are free.

JustMe is right, London isn't expensive if you know the tricks.


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## vishalt (Jan 27, 2006)

Geneva was a joke @ prices, so i'm not surprised Zurich will be the most expensive. Expensive food, expensive hotels, expensive transport, ridiculous taxes. 

Atleast in London prices for food were okay and the museums were free.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

SE9 said:


> JustMe is right, London isn't expensive if you know the tricks.


It's stillexpensive just not THAT expensive! You can't get around things like property prices if you live there. There are not too many more expensive cities.


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## Madman (Dec 29, 2003)

Jonesy55 said:


> It's stillexpensive just not THAT expensive! You can't get around things like property prices if you live there. There are not too many more expensive cities.


Ah well in life you often pay for what you get, they wouldn't be that expensive if they weren't that popular.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

Year, the property prices are pretty steep in London. Quite simply the city needs more housing projects built. But this becomes a catch 22.

Less housing was built because (amongst other reasons) the government didn't make this easy, or restricted it. Housing developers and real estate companies became used to an expensive property market. Home owners that bought expensive properties want their value to rise. So, even though now the government is trying to push more housing, the property industry asks themselves "do they really want to build more houses?". This would bring in initial capital, but will devalue the current high prices. Much of the public is against it as well - naturally, they often use covers such as "ecological reasons" but in reality, in a country where the majority of people already own their own homes, and paid a premium for them, the last thing they want is more homes on the market to drop the value of their own.

It becomes a vicious circle. But something has to give. The cost of property in London is very expensive. There are still some area's of great value, and some of them are not to far from central London, but they are becoming rarer all the time.


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## _00_deathscar (Mar 16, 2005)

Hmm.


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## -Corey- (Jul 8, 2005)

i dont know.. i dont live there but i thin is London.


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## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

The average price of a Manhattan apartment (the overwhelming bulk of which are studios, 1 and 2 bedroom apartments) fell to an albeit still astronomical $1,149,211. By the way, this figure is for all of Manhattan, including such poor areas as Harlem, Washington Heights, etc. 

Here's the article that was posted on www.therealdeal.net on June 14, 2006.

Manhattan apartment prices dip again
June 14, 2:07 pm

The average sales price for a Manhattan apartment continued to slide in May, according to new numbers out Wednesday from brokerage Halstead Property. The average price of a Manhattan apartment slipped from $1,236,287 in April to $1,149,211 in May -- a 7 percent decline month over month, and a 10 percent drop from May 2005. more By Tom Acitelli


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## Davis (May 27, 2006)

1. tokyo, 2. london, 3. zurich, 4. oslo


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## [email protected] (Jun 29, 2004)

I think London but mabe Tokyo


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## elgoyo (Jun 29, 2006)

I dont know about the cost of an apartment or groceries, but ive been in vacation on both cities and touring London was more expensive than touring Tokyo.


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## kashyap3 (Jul 11, 2006)

Tokyo for sure
has the highest cost of living than any city in the world


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## Heavenly Creature (Apr 2, 2006)

Sydney for cost of living, especially if you want a house/apartment/unit anywhere near the harbour. But otherwise for food and goods London, Osaka and Tokyo.

In June 2005, according to CNN Money:

The 20 most expensive cities on earth where as followes:

1. Tokyo, Japan
2. Osaka, Japan
3. London, England
4. Moscow, Russia
5. Seoul, South Korea
6. Geneva, Switzerland
7. Zurich, Switzerland
8. Copenhagen, Denmark
9. Hong Kong, Hong Kong
10.Oslo, Norway
11.Milan, Italy
12.Paris, France
13.NYC, USA
13. Dublin, Ireland (tie)
14.St. Petersburg, Russia 
16. Vienna, Austria 
17. Rome, Italy 
18. Stockholm, Sweden 
19. Beijing, China 
20. Sydney, Australia 
20. Helsinki, Finland (tie)

That's because Tokyo continues to earn the dubious distinction of being the world's most expensive city to live in, according to a survey released this week by Mercer Human Resources Consulting. 

No. 2 on the list is Osaka, another major Japanese city, which moved up from its fourth place ranking last year. 

Osaka's ascent pushed London to No. 3, and Moscow to No. 4. 

Coming in fifth is Seoul, which ascended two spots from its position in last year's survey. 

As for New York, it fell one spot in the rankings to No. 13 on a worldwide basis, tying it with Dublin. 

But New York still ranks No. 1 in North America, followed by Los Angeles, which ranks No. 44 on a worldwide basis, White Plains, N.Y. which ranks No. 45, and San Francisco which ranks No. 50. 

Mercer conducts the survey to help multinational companies and governments determine how much to pay their expatriate employees. The survey includes 144 cities across the world, and measures costs including housing, food, clothing, transportation and entertainment. 

So, if your company is shipping you off to Tokyo and you're negotiating compensation, you might remind them that a luxury two-bedroom apartment unfurnished might cost you $4,595 a month. 

And you also might remind them that with coffee running at over $4 a cup, there is some risk you'll be less productive due to loss of caffeine unless you're adequately paid. 

If you're making a move domestically, and you're interested in finding the place where your dollar will go the farthest, try Winston Salem, N.C., which is the least expensive U.S. city surveyed and ranks No. 119 on a worldwide basis. Heading north, Ottawa will provide you with the most bang for your buck in North America. 

If you head south to South America, you'll encounter some of the world's least expensive cities due to the lingering effects of the devaluation of the Argentine currency in 2002 and subsequent financial crisis, Mercer said. Asuncion, Paraguay, again ranks as the world's least expensive city, according to the survey. It is closely preceded by Buenos Aires, Montevideo and Caracas.


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## ChicagoSkyline (Feb 24, 2005)

NYC and Tokyo came to mine!


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## MumbaiMustBTaller (Mar 14, 2006)

its oslo..according to the latest statistics in a cost of living survey, its oslo...


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## paradyto (Aug 5, 2005)

in my mind... TOKYO


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## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

From the Aug. 17, 2006 edition of the _NY Sun:_

"Rents for Manhattan one-bedrooms surge"
August 17, 11:20 am
Another reality of the hot Manhattan rental market: One-bedrooms in doorman buildings are now renting for *at least * $3,000 a month, about $500 more than they were just three years ago. The market for one-bedrooms overall is exceedingly tight and expensive. more [Sun


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## krull (Oct 8, 2005)

*Rent Is Surging To $3,000 for One Bedroom* :runaway: 


BY GABRIELLE BIRKNER - Staff Reporter of the Sun
August 17, 2006

The cost of one-bedroom apartment rentals in Manhattan's doorman buildings is surging, with starting prices for these apartments hovering around $3,000 a month — about $500 more than they were just three years ago, city brokers say.

A bevy of condominium conversions has shrunk the number of available rental units, thereby driving up rents, a researcher at the Real Estate Board of New York, John Cole, said. "There's been so many conversions, with a good number of them having gone from rentals to condos," he said. "With less supply, the prices have gone up, and the vacancy rate has become infinitesimally small."

*One-bedroom apartments account for about half of the rental units in the city*, according to the "Black & White Report," a real estate guide published semiannually by Citi Habitats.

*Five years ago, roughly one in 100 rental apartments were unoccupied. Today, only about one in 220 of these units are available for rent, according to a sales agent with DJK Residential, Daniel Kahn. "Inventory is so low that, even people who have the money, and have all the paperwork prepared, are still having trouble finding places," he said.*

So tight is the market in the one-bedroom category that it can be a challenge just finding listings to show clients, Mr. Kahn said. "We used to be able to go out and show clients 10 places, and now we can only show them, maybe, four."

As a rule of thumb, New York landlords require their would-be tenants to earn a gross salary of 40 to 50 times the price of one month's rent. By those standards, a person looking to rent a $3,000 one-bedroom apartment would have to earn between $120,000 to $150,000, or else secure a co-signer to guarantee the rent will be paid. Mr. Kahn said he recently worked with a couple, both professionals in their late 40s, who had to secure a guarantor to seal a rental deal. "I'm constantly dealing with people who don't want to have to ask their parents," he said. "To avoid this, some offer to pay six month's rent upfront."

*While luxury one-bedrooms will generally run closer to $3,000 in areas like the West 40s, the East 30s, or the Upper East Side east of Second Avenue, an asking price of $4,000 is not uncommon in some of Manhattan's more sought-after areas, Mr. Kahn said.*

During the last six months of 2005, the average price of a one-bedroom unit in a doorman building in the West Village or Chelsea —two of the priciest rental neighborhoods — was more than $3,200, according to the "Black & White Report."

The skyrocketing cost of a one-bedroom in a full-service building also means fewer people can afford to graduate to two-bedroom apartments. The lack of transfers further cuts down on the number of available units. "It used to be you could raise your budget $400 or $500 and get a bigger place," Mr. Kahn said. "These days, people are raising their budget, and they're not getting anything different."

Even at the higher price points, Manhattan one-bedroom rentals are generally spoken for within five days, he said.

"It takes me longer to decide what kind of coffee I'm going to get at Starbucks than whether or not I'm going to take the apartment," a 30-year-old schoolteacher, Benjamin Joffe, said. "I wish I had time to process it. That's what killed me about the whole process."

*In most other cities, Mr. Joffe said his salary would enable him to rent a one-bedroom in a full-service building; in New York, however, he's settled on a ground-floor studio in a no-frills building near Columbia University. At $1,400 a month, he said he considers the rent a deal.*

The high cost of living, in part, accounts for the Cleveland native's "ambivalence" about living in New York City. "The difference between the haves and the have-nots, it's depressing," he said.

For others, the short supply of rentals has been a boom, a broker at Prudential Douglas Elliman, Judy Kendall Levine, said. "It's really an owner's market now," she said.

Ms. Levine has just listed for $3,800 a furnished, one-bedroom apartment in a postwar building with a doorman. "It's a good apartment, but does it have park views? No. Is it on a high floor? No," she said of the cond-op apartment on Third Avenue in the 80s. "In this market, they'll probably get what they're asking for."


© 2006 The New York Sun, One SL, LLC.


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## thunderC (Aug 7, 2006)

London or NewYork sits well with me.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

$3000 a month can easily support a mortgage with a 40 minute commute!


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## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

hkskyline said:


> $3000 a month can easily support a mortgage with a 40 minute commute!


Not really. $750,000 buys a very mediocre house in Westchester, and when you throw in an average tax payment of $1,000 per month, the monthly mortgage is about $6,500.









Mount Kisco, NY 10549

Single Family Home
$799,000
Taxes: $16,123
3 Bedroom(s)
2 Full Bath(s), 1 Half Bath(s)
2,769 Square Feet
MLS Number: 2605959


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## LLoydGeorge (Jan 14, 2006)

Avg. Manhattan Condo: $1,453,803

Prices rise as sales sag in Manhattan
Condos outsell co-ops in second quarter; inventory hits record
By Tom Acitelli


If the boom peaked in Manhattan's housing market at the end of 2005, the second quarter of 2006 quietly shut the door behind it.

Prices were up for the three months ending June 30, but sales plunged year over year, listing inventory set a record, and the number of days an apartment sits on the market increased by nearly a week on average.

Also, for the second consecutive quarter and for only the second time in the last five years, condominiums in Manhattan outsold co-operatives, dragging down the overall number of apartment deals in the borough. Rising mortgage rates played a role in the slumping sales, even as rising prices showed that buyers are willing to pay more when they do close a deal.

The average Manhattan apartment sales price hit a record of $1,386,193 in the second quarter, according to appraiser Miller Samuel and brokerage Prudential Douglas Elliman. That is 6.6 percent higher than the first quarter of this year and 5.2 percent higher than the second quarter of 2005.The average price per square foot for a Manhattan apartment set a record, too, in the second quarter, rising 7.9 percent from the first quarter to reach $1,083.

The lingering effects of a record Wall Street bonus season six months before and the strong city economy helped drive these price increases, according to Miller Samuel president and CEO Jonathan Miller.

But while prices rose, sales dropped and inventory spiked due to rising mortgage rates and the slowdown in co-op sales. The average rate on a 30-year, fixed-rate mortgage was 6.78 percent by the last week in June, according to Freddie Mac, its highest since 2002.

If the second quarter numbers read a little like déjà vu, that's understandable. Sales also dropped and inventory rose at the end of 2005, a time when the media and market analysts started their postmortems on the Manhattan housing boom. Apartment sales dropped 21.2 percent from the third quarter of 2005 to the fourth quarter, and inventory went up nearly 4 percent during the same period.

The second-quarter numbers suggest that what started at the end of last year was fully realized in the first six months of this year.

"I think we're not really in a boom anymore," said Dottie Herman, president and CEO of Prudential Douglas Elliman. "There's a lot more inventory, so days on the market are going to be longer. And, when people have more things to look at, they don't make decisions as quickly. There's no sense of urgency anymore."

In the second quarter, the number of sales declined to the lowest second-quarter level in five years. That's an especially telling indicator of the broader market because the second quarter is generally the busiest one for sales in Manhattan.

A decline in co-op sales drove the overall drop in sales to 1,934 in the second quarter -- a 3.5 percent decrease from the first quarter and a 14.8 percent drop from the same period last year, according to Miller Samuel. Co-ops accounted for 43 percent of all apartment sales in the second quarter, and condos for 57 percent.

The first quarter marked the first time since at least 2000 that condos outsold co-ops in Manhattan, according to Miller Samuel. Usually, co-ops outsell condos by wide margins. For instance, in 2003, co-ops accounted for 65.8 percent of Manhattan apartment sales; in 2004, for 60 percent.

Co-ops represent about 70 percent of housing stock in Manhattan, making the fact that condos outsold co-ops during the first six months of 2006 a telling indicator that total sales are slowing sharply.

"The overall decline [in apartment sales] was due to the drop in the number of co-op sales, which more than offset the rise in the number of condo sales," said Miller Samuel president Jonathan Miller.

At the same time as these sales drop-offs, listing inventory for Manhattan expanded 10.7 percent from the first quarter to a record 7,640 units. This number was also a remarkable 53.9 percent increase over the inventory in the second quarter of 2005, when, again, the borough's housing market stood in the midst of its much-ballyhooed boom.

The number of days it takes to sell a Manhattan apartment also rose in the second quarter. Over the three-month stretch, it climbed to an average of 144 days, up six days from the first three months of the year. 

When a property did sell in the second quarter, it commanded a better average price if it was a co-op rather than a condo. The average sales price of a Manhattan co-op increased 18.6 percent over the first quarter and 17.6 percent over the second quarter of 2005 to $1,296,452. The price of a condo, however, dropped 1.9 percent from the previous quarter and 7.4 percent from the same quarter last year to finish the second quarter at $1,453,803.
But this decline shouldn't worry those who make a living from the ebb and the flow of what remains a healthy Manhattan housing market -- albeit a much slower one than it was during this time last year.

"Even if the average sales price were a million," said Elliman's Herman, "would that be so terrible?"


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