# Ruhrgebiet / Ruhr Area



## Grunnen (Jan 16, 2008)

The Ruhr Area... I lived there for about three years. I made quite some pictures there, and today I suddenly thought that I could make a nice showcase of them. 

The Ruhr Area is a major industrial area in Germany, "famous" for its many coal mines and steel mills. When you say "Ruhrgebiet" to a Germans, they will immediately think of this:









(Not my picture - source)

But luckily, there is much more to it than only that. 

*Duisburg*

I will start in *Duisburg*, the city where the above picture was taken. It is still quite an industrial city, with the Thyssen Krupp and the Mannesmann factories.

My first stop is the *Landschaftspark*, a park built around a now disfunctional steel mill.









You can climb the stairs of one of the five steel ovens.









On friday, saturday and sunday nights the entire complex is colourfully illuminated.









And when you have climbed all the stairs, you reach the outlook platform at about 60 meters height. From here you have a view over the entire region.

I think it is quite funny. Normally, abandoned industrial complexes feel unsafe. But not this one. It is, after the Cologne Dom (Cathedral), the most visited tourist attraction of NRW, and even after midnight plenty photographers with expensive cameras walk around there. :lol: 









This is the theater in the city centre. The grass in the foreground is raised, with the sides illuminated with blue light when it is dark. It is called the floating grass.









The *Kaiserbrunnen* stands at the crossing of the two main shopping streets.









Duisburg is located on the *river Rhine*. Even with nice summer weather, the floodplains were completely quiet. Nice ...









... laying in the grass, looking at the blue sky ...









... watching the ships and trains pass by...

But enough of Duisburg.

*Essen*

Next is Essen. Unfortunately, I do not have too many pictures from Essen...









*Essen Central Station*, the underground part of it. The trams/streetcars and subway trains depart here.









*Zeche Zollverein*. This disfunctional coal mine has been placed on the UNESCO World Heritage list. Small creative companies now use the buildings. This is one of the main reasons why Essen will be the European Capital of Culture in 2010.









Another famous sight at Zollverein.

*Wanne-Eickel*

The last one and a half year that I lived in the Ruhr Area, Wanne-Eickel was my home. A nice town with about 80.000 inhabitants.









_"Nichts ist so schön, wie der Mond von Wanne-Eickel
Es ist so fein, ein Wanne-Eickeler zu sein!"_
This song caused *the moon* to be something special in this town. The theater is now called the Moon Palace, and every year there are festivities called the Moon Nights. :lol:









Nightly street scene close to where I lived.









The STEAG power station is located near the Rhein-Herne-Kanal.









The *Rhein-Herne-Kanal* is one of the nicest parts of the town.









Even though the canal is intensively used by ships, the water is crystal clear during the summer. Therefore, with sunny weather many people come here for sunbathing, swimming, and diving from the bridges. Although that last thing is in fact prohibited... :lol:









*Halde Hoppenbruch* is an old slag heap. Now that it isn't used anymore, many beautiful plants grow here. And they made nice mountain biking paths. 









And finally the *main street*. Many people did not like it, because the large warehouses like Karstadt and Hertie closed down some 20 years ago. But I still like this street. 

*Bochum*

Bochum is sometimes called the Grey Mouse between Essen and Dortmund. That is partly true. With 380.000 inhabitants, it does not even have one warehouse in the city centre. But on the other hand, it is praised for its night life in the so-called 'Bermuda Triangle'.









Arriving by train...









Street with houses near the city centre.









*Kemnader Straße*, leading south.









The *Ruhr-University* was the first university in the region. It is famous for its ugliness and people call it a "concrete desert". :lol:









*Im Lottetal*, an small road near the university.









A sluice in the *river Ruhr*, from which the region got its name.









The river itself. Remember, this is still the city of Bochum!









When you follow the river, you arrive at the suburb of Bochum-Dahlhausen. From there, you can climb the *Eiberger Berg*.









A view over Bochum from the *Tippelsberg* hill, located almost at the other end of the city.

*Dortmund-Nordstadt*

I have not visited much of Dortmund, mostly the Nordstadt because I knew a nice pizza restaurant there. :lol: The Nordstadt is not the best neightborhood however. In fact, it is about the closest to a ghetto you can get in Germany...









... and that is immediately apparent when you leave the train station and you see this huge, empty, vandalised building ...









This is *not* the pizzeria I was talking about. I just found the name so funny. Translated it reads: "Pizzeria under the Rain Gutter". :lol:









Germans really like *Italian ice*. Me too. 









Even though it is not a good neightbourhood, you can find very beautiful houses ...









... and nice parks ...









... and more beautiful houses ...









Now I'm afraid I cannot continue the story. My bank never gave me a Geldkarte, you see, and it appears I cannot buy another ticket without one. :lol:

*The End*


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

I quite like the Ruhr area. The towns and cities around there have done a lot in recent times to smarten up and move away from their industrial roots - much the same as the north of England (Manchester in particular). When I consider that Essen is destined to be the next culture capital of Europe following Liverpool, I can't help but be amazed at the changes wrought. 

Looking forward to more pictures.


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## Mishevy (Sep 4, 2007)

Nice reportage! I've been to most of these cities and I must say Ruhrgebiet is certainly not what it used to be 50 years ago. Most of the dirty industry is gone and the region has been revitalized to a large scale.


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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

Nice phototour


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## Grunnen (Jan 16, 2008)

Svartmetall said:


> I quite like the Ruhr area. The towns and cities around there have done a lot in recent times to smarten up and move away from their industrial roots - much the same as the north of England (Manchester in particular). When I consider that Essen is destined to be the next culture capital of Europe following Liverpool, I can't help but be amazed at the changes wrought.
> 
> Looking forward to more pictures.


That's interesting. The university course I am now enrolled in (in Amsterdam) offers an Erasmus exchange programme with Manchester, and I am seriously thinking about taking that opportunity. 

Anyways, it seems that I have less photos than I thought, so I can not post many more really new things. But I have done my best.

*Zugabe*









The *Deutsches Bergbaumuseum* in Bochum. It is a museum about coal mining, opened in 1930. Although it has never been a working mine, they did dig mine shafts so that the machines are displayed in their 'natural' environment. The explanations are in German and in English. 









Summer at the "concrete desert" university.









This is during the *Sommerfest*. Especially the big fireworks are a good reason for coming. 









This is actually not far away from the university. I think it is just hidden behind the hill on the left.









Many of the empty spaces in Bochum have been designated to be protected landscape area's. Everywhere you find these green signs indicating this.









Some nice old, rural houses.









A look at the Ruhr valley.









On our way back to the city centre, we pass through *Brenschede*. Once it probably was an independent village, but now it is part of Bochum.









Another street in Brenschede.









Brenschede has its own station on the *Stadtbahn*. Whether it should be counted as a _tramway_ or as a _metro_ remains controversial, and I do not think this is the right place to argue about that. 









The refurbished main station in Bochum.

For the rest, I think I made almost too many photo's in the Dortmund Nordstad. Oh well, maybe I post some more of them...









This is a station on the S-Bahn, between Bochum and Dortmund. Unfortunately, the S-Bahn in the Ruhr district is quite unreliable and unsafe. Trains are often delayed and cancelled, and many train sets have been vandalized with graffiti _on the inside_!









*Hellweg*, or better, Ostenhellweg and Westenhellweg, is the main shopping street in Dortmund. It is the second most visited shopping street in Germany! 









Nordstadt begins here. To revitalise the district, this modern cinema complex was built. It is located directly at the northern entrance of Dortmund main station.









A bit further you find the *Linienstraße*, the red light "district" of Dortmund. A steel wall has been placed at the entrance so that you can not look into the street without actually entering it, which is then prohibited for persons below the age of 18. :lol:









A nice façade in the *Münsterstraße*, which is the main shopping street of this district.









Most people living in this district are foreigners, so it should not surprise anyone to find ethnic shops here.









The *Mallinckrodtstraße*. Looks can be deceiving, this road is a major throughfare. There has even been a deadly incident when a truck in the stop-and-go traffic did not see a child.
The little child will go to school for her first time, today. You can see that from the *Schultüte*, filled with candy. 









Two more children on their way to school for the first time, also with their parents carrying a Schultüte.









A funny neighbourhood, I think. There are lots of beautiful old houses, but this one is not in a very good shape, unfortunately...









But there is new development going on. New appartments have been built...









... and a new shopping centre as well.









This is not a church, but the *Hafenamt* or harbour agency.









To go back to the city centre, you can take the *Stadtbahn*. Dortmund has the most extensive system of all Ruhr Area cities, and it works really well. 

Now I realise that these Nordstadt pictures are a bit depressing, so I'll finish with some more photos of my former home town Wanne-Eickel. 









*Zeche Unser-Fritz* clearly copied their design from the famous Zeche Zollverein in Essen, which I have already shown in the first series.









Mineworkers houses.









The road to Herten. Traffic jams are very unlikely here. 









Sunset in Herten.

*The End.*


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

Just a further comment regarding the S-bahn, I always got the impression that it wasn't that unreliable compared to most international train systems! Auckland's urban rail system (with only 2.5 lines) is only on-time 82% of the time (on time is defined as within 6 minutes of expected time). Considering these lines run at 30 minute frequencies it surprises me that this is the case! As for graffiti, that's a problem with most urban rail systems the world over it seems - highly unfortunate. Scratched and tagged trains are common everywhere I've travelled (except Singapore :lol! 

Looking forward to more pics!


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## jayo (Aug 30, 2007)

Try and get some more pics of Essen.I love that city.
Great pictures


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

I realize I might be one of only very few people to think so, but somehow the Pott has attracted me for quite a while. Nice pics!


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## Grunnen (Jan 16, 2008)

Svartmetall said:


> Just a further comment regarding the S-bahn, I always got the impression that it wasn't that unreliable compared to most international train systems! Auckland's urban rail system (with only 2.5 lines) is only on-time 82% of the time (on time is defined as within 6 minutes of expected time).


Well, I've looked it up, and you are completely right. Sorry. 

(85% of all S1 trains run on time, defined as within 3 minutes of expected time)



jayo said:


> Try and get some more pics of Essen.I love that city.
> Great pictures


Unfortunately, I have almost no pictures of Essen. 









Ice skating on the Kennedyplatz. The high rise in the background is the town hall.









This is the "before" picture. Taking an "after" picture will be difficult as there have been some little changes in this area... 

But the next time I visit Essen, I'll do my very best.


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## Mishevy (Sep 4, 2007)

Nice photos! If you have more, please post soon!


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## Grunnen (Jan 16, 2008)

Thanks!

But still more pictures? Let's see...

*Beautiful Ruhrgebiet*

The Ruhr Area has an extensive, well-developed railway system.









It has nice stations. This, for example, is at *Hagen Main Station*. Do you see the useful customer informations? :lol:









The recently renovated *Gelsenkirchen Main Station* has even more exhaustive information panels. :lol:









There are many small branch railways. This is a train stop on the line Bottrop - Dorsten.









This is a station on the extensive S-Bahn network of Essen.









When big industries closed down, so did the industrial railway branches like this one.

One of the advantages of the Ruhr Area is how easy you can find cheap housing.









This single room appartment would only costs about € 200,- per month, plus gas and electricity.









The house on the right was built during the "*Gründerzeit*" (1871 - 1914). During this period, most houses were beautifully decorated with Jugendstil ornaments.









Another "Gründerzeit" house.









And yet another one.









After the first World War, a new architectural style was coming up: "Neue Sachlichkeit". It focussed on straight lines and did away with the elaborate Jugendstil decorations.









Architecture was simplified even more after the second World War.

*You wonder whether these photos are really supposed to be beautiful?*

Well, then you are rightly doing so. These are actually the ugliest pictures I could find in my archive. :lol:

The little course in architectural history is completely true, though.

*More city centres*









City centre of Witten, a town located between Bochum and Hagen.









Downtown Duisburg street scene.









Herne has invested quite some money in nice coloured street lights and other decorations. It was one of the few cities which was not badly damaged during WWII, so its city centre is full of beautiful Gründerzeit façades.









This is the city centre in Essen-Steele. Although technically only a suburb, it has quite a nice city centre. There is even a Hertie warehouse! And it has a nice promenade along the Ruhr.









Buer suburb in Gelsenkirchen also has a nice city centre. You can see part of the Karstadt warehouse, which was probably renamed to Hertie as well.

*More of Bochum*









The *Jahrhunderthalle*. A machine hall which was built for the World Exhibition in Paris, and used by a steel mill afterwards. Today it is used for special events.









The *Planetarium*.









After the *Zeche Constantin* exploded and burnt down in 1936, a large park was built at its place.

*Moving on to Hattingen and Sprockhövel*









Bridge over the Ruhr near *Hattingen*.

Hattingen is a nice town, but I don't have any pictures of it. Sorry.









From Hattingen you can bicycle to Wuppertal along an old dismantled railway line.









You go through the *Bergisches Land*, a very scenic area with hills and forests.









Shouldn't these cows be in the Netherlands?

This is still Ruhrgebiet, by the way. In fact, these photos were taken near Sprockhövel, where the coal mining originated. Today, Sprockhövel is an idyllic village in the hills. It has a nice open air bath, a church and an surprisingly many restaurants for such a small village.

*Berliner Platz, part II*









I did already show the "before". This is the "during". 

*Ende*


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

> The last one and a half year that I lived in the Ruhr Area, Wanne-Eickel was my home. A nice town with about 80.000 inhabitants.


Isn't Wanne-Eickel a part of Herne?


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## Grunnen (Jan 16, 2008)

^^ Theoretically, yes. 

But in practice, after 33 years the answer is still *NO!*

The city council tries very hard to make Wanne-Eickel part of Herne. They even make posters with "Cranger Kirmes in *Herne*", but there are enthousiastic people who "correct" every poster with graffiti. :lol:









Also, recent attempts to rename the *Hauptbahnhof* to something like Herne-Wanne or Herne Hbf have succesfully been sabotaged. :devil:









Passing by on a ship? Then you see this beautiful sign. 

And Wanne-Eickel also still has its own dial code prefix, its own phone book, its own social housing cooperative, ...


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

Thanks for the interesting photos. I have to say though, that despite all the hyped "renovation" of the Ruhr cities, they still come across in these photos as extremely depressing. Such a large population as well, but due to almost neurotic localism there is no true large center of dominance and therefore the region lacks an impressive focal point (the Wanne-Eickel story is a classic example of this). None of the cities look particularly interesting and the area surrounding them looks rough and unkept, examples shown here of the canals look like something every city around the world has in their industrial hinterland but nothing they would show the world. Here it seems to be their highlights.

It's a pity as I would really like to have more positive thoughts of this region. I have been to parts of the surrounding area like Hagen and Dusseldorf which are more pleasant and would like to explore more. But when it comes to making decisions of where to spend my free time and money, I just find so many other more attractive destinations that compel me.

I'll keep this thread subscribed to keep watching the photos and hopefully things will look a bit brighter. But thanks again for starting the thread. It may look depressing to me, but I am very interested still in this region.


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## Benonie (Dec 21, 2005)

We don't see this region here often. It's one of the most populated and industralised regions in Europe, but I never visited it.
So thanks for sharing those great pictures. Keep them coming!


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## sky-eye (Jan 2, 2003)

Very ieresting pictures, keep on the good work!


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## Grunnen (Jan 16, 2008)

Justme said:


> Thanks for the interesting photos. I have to say though, that despite all the hyped "renovation" of the Ruhr cities, they still come across in these photos as extremely depressing.


Well, what did you expect? That every house in the region has been rebuilt during the last decades?

Actually, the most popular tourist attraction in the Ruhr region is the Landschaftspark. Its main theme is nature claiming back the decaying industrial installations. That says enough, I think. 



> None of the cities look particularly interesting and the area surrounding them looks rough and unkept, examples shown here of the canals look like something every city around the world has in their industrial hinterland but nothing they would show the world. Here it seems to be their highlights.


I liked to photograph everyday scenes. Therefore, I have almost no pictures of the popular tourist highlights. These are for example:

- The Love Parade
- Countless night clubs everywhere, like Delta (Duisburg) and Prater (Bochum)
- Cinemaxx (Essen), the largest multiplex cinema in Germany
- Lichtburg (Essen), the largest and most beautiful classical movie theatre in Germany
- Cranger Kirmes (Wanne-Eickel), the second largest (after the Oktoberfest) funfair of Germany
- Wananas (Wanne-Eickel), LAGO (Herne) and Heveney (Witten) subtropical swimming pools
- RuhrPark (Bochum) and CentrO (Oberhausen) American-style shopping malls
- Hohensyburg (Dortmund) casino
- Profi-Grill (Wattenscheid), a small snack bar where a former 3 Michelin star chief cook makes the best Currywurst of Germany
- Football clubs Schalke 04 Gelsenkirchen, Borussia Dortmund and VfL Bochum are all in the 1. Bundesliga.
- ...



> Such a large population as well, but due to almost neurotic localism there is no true large center of dominance and therefore the region lacks an impressive focal point (the Wanne-Eickel story is a classic example of this).


That is entirely true. Everyone agrees that this is a big problem, but no one knows how to change something.


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

For interests sake, when did you live in this area and how old are these photos?


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

Grunnen said:


> Well, what did you expect? That every house in the region has been rebuilt during the last decades?
> 
> Actually, the most popular tourist attraction in the Ruhr region is the Landschaftspark. Its main theme is nature claiming back the decaying industrial installations. That says enough, I think.


Hey, no need to get too defencive here. My post was an honest opinion regarding this area. I don't expect every house in the region to be rebuilt. In fact, I find the residential area's in the Ruhr area to be quite fine and typical of anywhere in western Germany within the same class boundary's. My point is about the region as a whole and the city centers.



Grunnen said:


> I liked to photograph everyday scenes. Therefore, I have almost no pictures of the popular tourist highlights. These are for example:
> 
> - The Love Parade
> - Countless night clubs everywhere, like Delta (Duisburg) and Prater (Bochum)
> ...


All do respect, the Ruhr area (excluding the whole, larger Rhein-Ruhr) has something like 5.3million people. This makes it an urban area larger than Sydney, Melbourne, Barcelona, Madrid, Vienna etc. In fact, it puts it in the same category as most of the major cities around the world except the extremely large ones like Paris, London, NY, Tokyo etc.

What above is anything special for an urban area of this size?

Nightclubs: Every city has these and the Ruhr does not stand out nationally or globally.
A cinema complex? Where in the world is a cinema multiplex amongst the tourist attractions?
The Lichtburg: This is a nice cinema, but it is very average on a global scale. Even new world cities like Sydney, Auckland or believe it or not, Los Angeles have more elaborate and larger _historical_ film palaces than this.

etc...

I'll be frank with you here. The rest of the _tourist attractions_ listed wouldn't attract that many people at all. I don't travel half way around the world to see a multiplex cinema or visit a bland shopping mall (Ruhrpark) I mean, is this what you meant by the Ruhrpark? (photo from wikipedia)









Now, I don't want to be too critical of the Ruhr area. I have heard that it has improved dramatically over the years and is now a very pleasant place to live. I am also sure that some of the industrial sites would be worth a visit or two if there. But that said, I do feel that for an urban area this size, it really lacks real solid focal points. 



Grunnen said:


> That is entirely true. Everyone agrees that this is a big problem, but no one knows how to change something.


I personally believe that this is the main problem and reason the area lacks a focal point. Every neighbourhood wants to be equally represented almost in a geographical form of communism. I don't think this will ever change. Germans in general are very provincial people and the Ruhr area seems to be the strongest example of this.

I do expect though that the Ruhr area will improve more over the years. It will become a pleasant place to live, I have no doubt about that. It's economy will improve as will it's appearance. But I don't think there will ever be any strong focal point. This urban area of 5.3million people will never have to offer the wonders and sights of any other equivalent sized urban area in the developed world, i.e. it will never be a Madrid, Barcelona, Sydney, Melbourne, Boston, Rome, Berlin, San Francisco or Toronto. I don't think even it will ever be a Vancouver, Auckland, Perth, Lyon, Birmingham, Valencia or San Antonio despite being much larger.


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## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

The reportage pretty much confirmed what I expected. A run down and depressed area. Probably the worst Germany has to offer. hno:

I really couldn't live there. Would get depressions everyday.


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## Grunnen (Jan 16, 2008)

Svartmetall said:


> For interests sake, when did you live in this area and how old are these photos?


I lived there 2004 - 2008, the oldest photos are from 2005.


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## Grunnen (Jan 16, 2008)

Justme said:


> All do respect, the Ruhr area (excluding the whole, larger Rhein-Ruhr) has something like 5.3million people. This makes it an urban area larger than Sydney, Melbourne, Barcelona, Madrid, Vienna etc. In fact, it puts it in the same category as most of the major cities around the world except the extremely large ones like Paris, London, NY, Tokyo etc.
> 
> What above is anything special for an urban area of this size?
> 
> (...) I don't think there will ever be any strong focal point. This urban area of 5.3million people will never have to offer the wonders and sights of any other equivalent sized urban area in the developed world, i.e. it will never be a Madrid, Barcelona, Sydney, Melbourne, Boston, Rome, Berlin, San Francisco or Toronto. I don't think even it will ever be a Vancouver, Auckland, Perth, Lyon, Birmingham, Valencia or San Antonio despite being much larger.


That is very true, I think. It is not really one integrated urban area, it is more like every city for itself, where the cities themselves are quite small again, with several villages merged into the community as suburbs. All in all the population density is really quite low, so that things like subways are not economically feasible and would look totally out of place almost everywhere.

Furthermore, the cities barely have any service area around them, so that the service level is lower than you would expect from the number of inhabitants.

For example, I grew up in Groningen, in the Netherlands. That city has 180.000 inhabitants, but I think it has _more_ touristic highlights and _better_ shopping than Dortmund, where 500.000 people live!

*However*, I still found it a very pleasant area to live. You just have to look at it the other way around. You have an urban area with 5.5 million people, but in most places it just feels like a town with about most 75.000 inhabitants. That also has its advantages. There is no overcrowding, housing is cheap and easy to find, there are relatively few traffic jams, and parks, forests and pastures are never far away.

And there are surprisingly many tourist attractions and other things you can do in the vicinity, compared to other cities of 75.000. :lol:


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

Far be it for me to wade into this debate, but I'll just spew a few of my thoughts on here.

I guess I take a different approach to some in this thread about the Ruhrpott area. As I did earlier with the parallels between old, industrial English towns and the cities of the Ruhr, I do again. The Ruhr, however, has a few extra things going for it.

#1. The crime rate is pretty low considering all mitigating circumstances. Criminality is certainly not half as bad as most English cities of note according to the statistics I could find. Also, in none of these pictures (or others that I've seen of the various cities on Flickr or Panoramio) did I see the level of gates, window bars or other security measures that a trip into inner Manchester and Liverpool will show you. I used to stay at a friends house in Rusholme in Manchester near the Curry Mile and was shocked that they had to enter their house through a thick steel cage and had window bars on all their windows. There also doesn't seem to be the same level of barbed wire everywhere and no electric fences either (we have those all over the place in Auckland, a car park in Newmarket for example).

#2. The level of infrastructure is pretty amazing. Despite the level of decentralisation hinted at by Justme, in some ways this has lead to a very beneficial polycentric approach to infrastructure. The levels of passenger use on the public transport for the whole VRR actually surpasses PT usage levels in Melbourne, Australia for example despite this lower population density - making it quite a sustainable place as far as this element goes (116 passenger trips per head of population in Melbourne compared to 149.86 in the VRR region). 

#3. Lots of the housing stock appears to be just needing a touch up and the suburban housing stock appears to be pretty nice indeed. In a lot of the city centres (just from browsing Flickr and Panoramio on Google Earth for example) you can see huge redevelopment projects as we saw in northern British cities and Birmingham beginning around 8-10 years ago. Now when I consider how Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds and all of those other cities look, I think of how they were - quite similar in a lot of ways to the cities of the Ruhrpott. Birmingham in particular still has huge swathes of derelict, dangerous areas which are ripe for redevelopment - just taking a train to Walsall will show anyone that! 

So yes, having seen redevelopment in lots of formerly horrible looking English cities I can't help but feel some affinity for this area of Germany and hold out some hope for the future. As long as industries in the Ruhr continue to move away from the more traditional primary industries and manufacturing we might see some scope for recovery and further redevelopment. Plus with cities like Düsseldorf and Köln nearby, I think it should have quite a drawcard (it does to me anyway)!


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

^^ Very interesting points there, as usual Svartmetall. 

I would personally see cities like Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds on a completely different level though now. Their redevelopment projects have really turned their city's around and although a lot of work still needs to be done with them, I feel they are at a more advanced stage than the Ruhr cities. Now places like Bradford in the UK are still pretty grim and probably below the Ruhr region in terms of quality of life.

You are correct in the crime levels being higher in those UK cities. Germany for some reason does seem to have lower theft and assault levels, though comparing international figures is always difficult as each country defines these things completely differently. However, I wouldn't use the visual appearance of bars on windows as a guide. This may also have a lot to do with the British nature of "fearing" crime rather than the crime figures itself. Afterall, nearly every home I have ever visited in the UK has smoke detectors yet I have never seen one in a home in Germany. This doesn't mean there are less house fires in Germany  The British do have an unhealthy fear of crime which if you read their news reports takes everything out of proportion. For instance, headlining constantly in the news is youth murder crime. So much so, that globally the UK is getting a reputation that it is in the midst of a youth murder crime wave. Yet if you look at the statistics (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_com_by_you_per_cap-murders-committed-youths-per-capita) You can see the UK near the bottom of the list, only slightly different from Germany. NZ on the other hand has a much greater problem but we don't ever hear of that.

But I won't disagree that it is a nice place to live. Pleasant, relatively crime free in comparison to many other parts of the world etc. It's still pretty grim looking though and nearly any other city of equivalent size in the developed world has more to offer.


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## Der wahre Heino (Sep 13, 2004)

what did I miss about the world famous attractinons of san antonio?


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

Der wahre Heino said:


> what did I miss about the world famous attractinons of san antonio?


The Riverwalk for one. The San Antonio riverwalk is amongst some of the best examples of urban regeneration in the world. It's a beautiful example of how even a small river can become a facinating place to visit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Antonio_River_Walk
http://thesanantonioriverwalk.com/
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=san antonio river walk&w=all

It sure beats that bland mall shown in an earlier post.


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## Grunnen (Jan 16, 2008)

^^ Surely beats that mall. In fact, it almost looks like the famous "Oude Gracht" in Utrecht (NL). 

Unfortunately, most of the Ruhr cities are too far away from any river for such things. Only Duisburg has a slightly similar project at an old harbour, the "Innenhafen":

http://www.laar-am-rhein.de/duisburg-bilder/innenhafen/INNHM0233.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/c/c8/Werhahnmuehle03.jpg

As you can see, the difference is that in urban renewal projects in the Ruhr region, they try to keep the heavy industrial feeling of the area. Many people do like the feeling of the Innenhafen and the Landschaftspark. But for people who just find them depressing, the urban renewal obviously doesn't work...


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

^^ I like the 1st image you showed in Duisburg. I am a fan of Industrial renewal, but I do prefer them to be completely done. i.e. keeping the historical structure but not keeping the grottiness. At least in that closeup first shot it looks pretty nice. I can't tell anything from the 2nd shot. Germany is extremely lucky to be blessed with many fantastic historical industrial architecture. It must have been amazing before the war and sad that so much was lost. But there is still plenty left.

Unlike many other country's, the historical industrial architecture in Germany is extremely detailed and of high aesthetic quality.

Of course, no place in Germany is better suited to this than the Ruhr Area, however, it does seem that many of the renovations opt for the option that I least prefer, either only partial renovation (an attractive project in the midst of an ugly undeveloped industrial wasteland) or only selective renovation where they still leave graffiti or unkept gardens (i.e. that idea of nature overtaking is beautiful... not to me, that just looks unkept when in an urban environment) 

I have to admit, there maybe a lot more of the full renovations in the Ruhr Area than I know about. I can only go by examples as shown here or from other threads. If there are some really good examples I would love to see them.


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## KidGibNick (Feb 27, 2005)

Just a few comments/opinions..

The cities of Koln and Dusseldorf have a lot going for them. Dusseldorf has a beautiful river front prominade, with lots of pubs/restaurants, and potted palm trees everywhere. They certainly do not need redeveloping. However, due to bomb damages in WWII a lot of the mid-sized cities have fewer historical buildings, and thus, tend to look very 60s/70s new-build...or rather, ugly. iE. Essen, Bochum. Where as, many UK cities suffer from dereliction, there are also many more beautiful historic buildings. Germany does a good job at reconstructing some new builds tat showcase the style of old buildings/period features.

The standard of living is definitely higher than in many UK cities, and the crime is definitely lower, when comparing cities of comparable populations. 
Crime and violence in the UK appears to be a function of its social complexities...drastic transformations from industry to services, strong British nationalism which affects racial issues/gangs, mass immigration, alcoholism, different education systems, etc. There is more emphasis on class structure in the UK...people feel born into blue collar neighbourhoods, lives, and lack hope or opportunities, bound to their island.

Crime is not as big of a social issue in Germany...you don't generally see chavs sitting on the street corners drinking and panhandling; however, there are issues mostly with native Germans and Turkish immigrants. Also, there is greater emphasis on education in Germany, especially some form of post-secondary...most learn some english, and strive to live outside of their own country at some point, gaining a more global perspective than the average British citizen, who doesn't tend to leave the UK...partly due to language barriers, and thus, it appears that the mobility of mainland Europeans offers them greater employment opportunities, since many know several languages, and most people do not stay in their same town their entire life.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

KidGibNick said:


> Just a few comments/opinions..
> 
> The cities of Koln and Dusseldorf have a lot going for them. Dusseldorf has a beautiful river front prominade, with lots of pubs/restaurants, and potted palm trees everywhere. They certainly do not need redeveloping. However, due to bomb damages in WWII a lot of the mid-sized cities have fewer historical buildings, and thus, tend to look very 60s/70s new-build...or rather, ugly. iE. Essen, Bochum. Where as, many UK cities suffer from dereliction, there are also many more beautiful historic buildings. Germany does a good job at reconstructing some new builds tat showcase the style of old buildings/period features.


I don't believe Köln & Düsseldorf are part of this discussion as they are within the wider Rhein Ruhr region, not the Ruhr area itself.

That said, they are the nicest of the major cities in the Rhein Ruhr. Düsseldorf's riverfront is ok, but nothing special when compared to great riverfronts around the world such as on the Thames, the Seine etc. It's not bad though.



KidGibNick said:


> The standard of living is definitely higher than in many UK cities, and the crime is definitely lower, when comparing cities of comparable populations.


Are you taking Eastern German cities into account here? As the Eastern ones should be the ones to compare with the worst UK cities. Crime statistics when comparing across nations have to be taken very carefully. Each country has a completely different method of defining crime itself. I remember a few years back, the UK changed some of it's methods for recording these statistics and the Assault crime figures rose 28% in one year. The tabloid media (which most people reads) made a big deal about the increased crime figures without pointing out that it was to do with the way statistics were handled. Assaults I know are recording very differently between Germany and the UK, one example I read somewhere was that in the UK if 3 people assaulted a man, each person would be charged for assault and three assaults would have been registered (based on the three charges) but in Germany three people would be charged but one single assault would be recorded for the statistics (based on the act of crime). Murder definitions are much closer and this is reflected in that the German and UK murder rates are almost identical per capita.

I would agree though that in most crimes, according to statistics and not taking into account the differences in how they are recorded, Germany does as a whole have lower crime rates.



KidGibNick said:


> Crime and violence in the UK appears to be a function of its social complexities...drastic transformations from industry to services, strong British nationalism which affects racial issues/gangs, mass immigration, alcoholism, different education systems, etc. There is more emphasis on class structure in the UK...people feel born into blue collar neighbourhoods, lives, and lack hope or opportunities, bound to their island.


I agree with this, one of the major problems in the UK is it's class structure. Not so much the middle classes, but the lower classes themselves. It is their own class that holds themselves back. This isn't for everyone in the working classes, but a large proportion. 



KidGibNick said:


> Crime is not as big of a social issue in Germany...you don't generally see chavs sitting on the street corners drinking and panhandling;


Different country here, instead you see Turks and other immigrant youths sitting on street corners often intimidating people.



KidGibNick said:


> however, there are issues mostly with native Germans and Turkish immigrants. Also, there is greater emphasis on education in Germany, especially some form of post-secondary


Greater emphasis on higher education? Only because it takes so long here. Most people stay in University until the late 20's and often into the 30's before they start in the work force. Universities here are slow and terribly inefficient. People may have "greater emphasis" on higher education, but only because it takes up so much more of their lives. On top of that, it is extremely restricted here for people to move to jobs outside of their education. If a trained accounted wanted to move to a completely different field this would be much harder in Germany than in the UK.



KidGibNick said:


> most learn some english, and strive to live outside of their own country at some point, gaining a more global perspective than the average British citizen, who doesn't tend to leave the UK...partly due to language barriers,


Most learn English because a) it is taught to everyone in school, and b) while learning English in school they are singing along to all of their favourite songs in that language. You NEED English to travel globally, German simply won't get you as far. Learning English is also an extreme advantage in employment.

As for Germans travelling more than the British, have you travelled at all? I have lived in 5 different country's in my life, and there has always been more British expatriates than Germans. In 95% of the country's in the world, I am sure you will find more British citizens than German citizens. The British are famous in Europe for buying property and moving to other country's. There are more shows on UK television regarding this than half the rest of Europe combined.



KidGibNick said:


> and thus, it appears that the mobility of mainland Europeans offers them greater employment opportunities, since many know several languages, and most people do not stay in their same town their entire life.


Negative. The advantage of being a native English speaker far out weighs knowing a few words of another language. Many Germans know good English, but few speak it very well, and most of those are younger Germans.

An Englishman can move to Germany without knowing a word of the language here and get by with very few problems. A German moving to England without a word of English would have a lot more problems.


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## Grunnen (Jan 16, 2008)

Justme said:


> I don't believe Köln & Düsseldorf are part of this discussion as they are within the wider Rhein Ruhr region, not the Ruhr area itself.
> 
> That said, they are the nicest of the major cities in the Rhein Ruhr. Düsseldorf's riverfront is ok, but nothing special when compared to great riverfronts around the world such as on the Thames, the Seine etc. It's not bad though.


Düsseldorf is really nice indeed, especially for shopping. 

But I found the riverfront quite disappointing. It really misses the liveliness you find in Köln at the riverfront, I think. It feels a bit too empty and too quiet.



> Different country here, instead you see Turks and other immigrant youths sitting on street corners often intimidating people.


Here I disagree. Most of those "immigrant youths sitting on street corners" are harmless. When my sister came to visit me, she was quite surprised about that. :lol:

I've been intimated by Turks twice though, both times on the train. Not very surprising considering that many trains don't have conductors any more because DB wants to save costs.


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## xlchris (Jun 23, 2006)

Every year I visit Cologne and Dusseldorf with Christmas. It's wonderfull! Only a few weeks left


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

Grunnen said:


> Here I disagree. Most of those "immigrant youths sitting on street corners" are harmless. When my sister came to visit me, she was quite surprised about that. :lol:


Oh, of course most of them are harmless. Most are probably quite nice young lads just hanging around, killing time. 

But that's just like the "hoodies" in the UK. I have never been bothered personally by any of them, and on a couple of occasions had to ask directions and had nothing but friendly responses.

But they are the direct comparisons.


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## Der wahre Heino (Sep 13, 2004)

Justme said:


> The Riverwalk for one. The San Antonio riverwalk is amongst some of the best examples of urban regeneration in the world. It's a beautiful example of how even a small river can become a facinating place to visit.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Antonio_River_Walk
> http://thesanantonioriverwalk.com/
> http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=san antonio river walk&w=all
> ...


Im sorry for answering a little late, im not here that often. 
but are you really trying to sell me that as anything special, even world famous?


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## Ribarca (Jan 28, 2005)

I have visted quite a few of those places coming from Holland. It's as ugly as I experienced it. Even Koln was dissapointing. Travelling by train it's indeed shocking how poor the stations and surrounding areas are maintained. The only thing I like(d) are the old industrial buildings.


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## l'eau (Jul 7, 2008)

intresting photos.
my cousins live in gelsenkirchen, it would be great if u put gelsenkirchen photos:cheers:


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

l'eau said:


> intresting photos.
> my cousins live in gelsenkirchen, it would be great if u put gelsenkirchen photos:cheers:


Hu, Gelsenkirchen, my hometown, the capital of unterschicht:banana:




















the "rest" of the beautiful Gründerzeit buildings surrounding the former central station building











Former Post Office building, today a court building










we're loving green trees - even in Gelsenkirchen










the heart of Schalke 04










Refinary by night





























Nice underground station - reminds to the big coal mine "Consolidation" 
(closed now)










Theatre









view from north to south


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

^^ Thanks for that! Shows that the Ruhr isn't all doom and gloom. Those underground stations look pretty cool too.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

Der wahre Heino said:


> Im sorry for answering a little late, im not here that often.
> but are you really trying to sell me that as anything special, even world famous?


:lol: compared to the waterfrontage in the Ruhrgebiet, yes it is. Compared to the waterfrontage of Rio, San Francisco or Sydney no. But let's start at the bottom ok ;O)


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## KidGibNick (Feb 27, 2005)

Justme said:


> :lol: compared to the waterfrontage in the Ruhrgebiet, yes it is. Compared to the waterfrontage of Rio, San Francisco or Sydney no. But let's start at the bottom ok ;O)


Perhaps the San Antonio river-front is a successful development, but overall it's an ugly, mexican-plaza-sprawling, and forgotten city (in my opinion). 

Despite it's industrial past there are nice districts and neighbourhoods around Duisburg/Dortmund even if you don't consider Dusseldorf or Koln part of the immediate Ruhr.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

^^ I would agree the "neighbourhoods" to be found in the Ruhr cities would be of much higher quality than the neighbourhoods of San Antonio. But that is typical of German cities (and European cities in general). One thing constant in European cities are nice neighbourhoods that surround the central cities.

But as you can find that in every city in Europe, it doesn't stand out here in the Ruhr Area.


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## Der wahre Heino (Sep 13, 2004)

but then the san antonio riverwalk is world famous?


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

Der wahre Heino said:


> but then the san antonio riverwalk is world famous?


not world famous, but more famous than anything in the Ruhr Area. To be honest, outside of Germanic countries and a few other people in surrounding European countries I doubt if anyone has ever heard of this area. When you take into account the full Rhein Ruhr area has 12million people making it one of the largest Metropolitan Area's in Europe and up with the big boys in the world, it is amazing that so few has heard of it.

Tell a person outside of Europe that you live in Essen and I would be very surprised if they had heard of it. San Antonio is certainly not on everyone's lips, but it's population is a fraction of the Ruhr Area yet I assure you it is still more widely known.

Also, when you read and study urban planning and design, the San Antonio river walk comes up a lot more than anything in the Ruhr Area (unless of course you are in a Germanic country)

I have lived in several country's around the world, and I can assure you that the Ruhr Area is one of the, if not _the_ least known major urban area in the developed world.


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## Ni3lS (Jun 29, 2007)

Nice pictures. Ruhrgebiet isn't that ugly actually


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## KidGibNick (Feb 27, 2005)

Justme said:


> Tell a person outside of Europe that you live in Essen and I would be very surprised if they had heard of it. San Antonio is certainly not on everyone's lips, but it's population is a fraction of the Ruhr Area yet I assure you it is still more widely known.


I believe we were comparing the actual quality of life, infrastructure, beauty etc vs. How well it is know; however, you are correct in that more outsiders have probably heard of San Antonio...but everyone around the world seems to know a little bit more about US cities. I'm sure that on a global scale, some people are more familiar with the name Pittsburgh than they are Stuttgart, regardless of it's importance, relevance, etc.


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## Darryl (Jan 14, 2007)

As an American, I can tell you that the average off-the-street American who has never been to Europe, knows Berlin and maybe Munich and Frankfurt are in Germany if they are lucky. That's even a stretch unfortunately.


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## Skyline_FFM (May 25, 2008)

goschio said:


> The reportage pretty much confirmed what I expected. A run down and depressed area. Probably the worst Germany has to offer. hno:
> 
> I really couldn't live there. Would get depressions everyday.


This is not true! The Ruhr Area has a lot to offer! And it is surely far better than most Eastern German regions! Dortmund, Duisburg and Bochum have very nice areas, great nighlife and along with the Rhinelanders and Hamburgers ( :lol: ) the friendliest peole.


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## Skyline_FFM (May 25, 2008)

KidGibNick said:


> I believe we were comparing the actual quality of life, infrastructure, beauty etc vs. How well it is know; however, you are correct in that more outsiders have probably heard of San Antonio...but everyone around the world seems to know a little bit more about US cities. I'm sure that on a global scale, some people are more familiar with the name Pittsburgh than they are Stuttgart, regardless of it's importance, relevance, etc.


And the reason for that is the flood of American films broadcast around the world.


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