# Do you think the earth would eventually turn into an Ecumenopolis?



## Kiss the Rain (Apr 2, 2006)

It occurred to me that with the steady urbanization worldwide, the earth may one day turn into and ecumenopolis(entire planet covered with city), much like the planet-city coruscant in star wars.
Do you think the people would allow for that to happen, if yes, how long do you think it will take.


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## staff (Oct 23, 2004)

The world's land masses consist of 3% cities today. It would take a very long time for that to happen.


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## miamicanes (Oct 31, 2002)

I think the Earth will have suburbanized to the Moon, Mars, and beyond long before that happens. And the people who DO live in places like central Africa, Antarctica, the Gobi Desert, Siberia, and the Amazon will be people who are incredibly rich and determined to ensure that nobody else can live within a mile or two of their house so they can enjoy complete rural privacy while places like the eastern US, western Europe, the Atlantic coast of Brazil, Pearl River Delta, etc. *are* basically huge cities sprawling hundreds of miles in every direction.


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## Chicagoago (Dec 2, 2005)

We could never support outselves with food and water to add the hundreds and hundreds of billions of people necessary to build up the ENTIRE planet.

Cities will grow, but almost the entire surface of the planet is covered by something other than urban areas...


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## schreiwalker (May 13, 2005)

Chicagoago said:


> We could never support outselves with food and water to add the hundreds and hundreds of billions of people necessary to build up the ENTIRE planet.
> 
> Cities will grow, but almost the entire surface of the planet is covered by something other than urban areas...


well, never is a long time. and if we're comparing ourselves to coruscant, then perhaps there's a big fleet of ships going back and forth between farming planets. 

That said, currently we don't think its even theoretically possible to travel the speed of light, so that food would be a couple years old once it got to us. 

So I'm pretty sure that the chance of the whole world become a city is next to zero.


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## monkeyronin (May 18, 2006)

Star Wars Ep. I-III suck. never mention anything relating to them ever again.

As for the ecumenopolis issue.. unlikely, that type of population would be unsustainable, so we'd all die anyway :laugh:


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## Robert Stark (Dec 8, 2005)

That would never hapen, the earth does not have the resources to support that many people.


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## Bartolo (Sep 20, 2004)

We can hardly handle the population we have now of 7 billion (?) let alone a population a 100 times that


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## v:zero (Aug 8, 2005)

^^ 6 billion

In the near future the urban sprawls of Japapnese cities would be an early ecumenopolis example of Earth, if it really happens in that matter.


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## wjfox (Nov 1, 2002)

Robert Stark said:


> That would never hapen, the earth does not have the resources to support that many people.


What if those resources were imported from other worlds - the Moon, a terraformed Mars, and other colonies around the gas giants?


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## mhays (Sep 12, 2002)

Actually over 6.5. 

I so much want to visit Corascant. During that chase scene I was pretty much agog at the city.


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## schreiwalker (May 13, 2005)

wjfox2002 said:


> What if those resources were imported from other worlds - the Moon, a terraformed Mars, and other colonies around the gas giants?



food-wise, it would still take too long to get here. 

but we could have another green revolution like the one that happened in the 1960's that enabled our current population. 

Before that revolution in agriculture, a widely read book called "the population bomb" predicted that famines would wipe out much of the world's population and that by the 1990s average life expectancy in the US would only be 42. (its actually 70 or so, and the only reason its not higher is cause we eat so much we kill ourselves through heart disease and diabetes)


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## jmancuso (Jan 9, 2003)

i hope not seeing as humans aren't the only species living on this planet.


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## monkeyronin (May 18, 2006)

v:zero said:


> In the near future the urban sprawls of Japapnese cities would be an early ecumenopolis example of Earth, if it really happens in that matter.


Except that Japanese cities aren't really growing any more. unlike developing countries, which usually have high birth rates, and plenty of rural migration, or other developed nations with lots of immigration, Japan has none of that. so, the population will probably peak soon then start slowly declining, so we won't be seeing any Japanese ecumenopolis.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

No...there's still plenty of room in Siberia.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Kiss the Rain said:


> It occurred to me that with the steady urbanization worldwide, the earth may one day turn into and ecumenopolis(entire planet covered with city), much like the planet-city coruscant in star wars.
> Do you think the people would allow for that to happen, if yes, how long do you think it will take.


I find it impossible. There are areas where people won't even wanna live there.


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## Cristovão471 (May 9, 2006)

This Is the New York part of the Eumencopolis


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## Mosaic (Feb 18, 2005)

Robert Stark said:


> That would never hapen, the earth does not have the resources to support that many people.



I second that, It won't happen that like at least in our life time.


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## bob rulz (Oct 20, 2005)

monkeyronin said:


> Star Wars Ep. I-III suck. never mention anything relating to them ever again.


What, you don't like Coruscant?

Also, your facts are wrong. Coruscant was around long before the prequels ever came around.

Anyway, I don't think people would _ever_ allow that to happen. I can see Earth's population reaching 30 or 40 billion (hell, even 100 billion way in the future...) at some point in the future, but I could never see it becoming completely urbanized. People like nature too much, and there's simply too much land to cover (not to mention we'd have to drain the oceans and settle them, too....). Counting the oceans, less than 1% of the world is urbanized now. Also, even if we settle the galaxy and have tons of food transported from offworld, I just don't think it would be sustainable.

EDIT:


schreiwalker said:


> (its actually 70 or so, and the only reason its not higher is cause we eat so much we kill ourselves through heart disease and diabetes)


The life expectancy of the United States is 78, not 70.


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## Kiss the Rain (Apr 2, 2006)

lol, good to see this thread getting going so fast.

Many of you are missing the point here, sure its going to take AGES and CURRENTLY its pretty much impossible to support such a huge pop. But the question is will it EVENTUALLY happen. I mean during the entire course of history, the human population has never stopped growing, and i see no reason why the pattern would reverse itself in the future. Once we conquerred other planets in the system or even the galacy, sure people will want to get off the crowded earth and suburbanise other planets, but human have learnt the need to "zone" the use of land a long time ago. As in, this area is only for comerical building, another is only for residential, and another only for farming and etc, so why cant we do this in a wider sense as in "zone" an entire planet for just urbanization so that other planets can dedicate to their particualar task as well, and with the gradual growing(and accelerating)population, i think an Ecumenopolis WILL EVENTUALLY happen. Its not a matter of if, but a matter of when.

Btw, just a off topic question, whats with the yellow circles on Coruscant when viewed from orbit, surely they are not city lights, or else they wouldnt be in perfect circles.


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## Gaeus (Mar 21, 2007)

It will happened maybe in 1000 years or beyond. First, we don't have "THE RESOURCES OF ALL TYPE" to be like that unless if we go to other planets. We don't even have the "RIGHT" technology yet. I say right technology which means technology that is efficient and doesn't cost millions or billions of dollars.

Second, we need "FOOD". Food are being produced in farms and seas. You usually need at least 70% farms (rural area) to feed the people in urban areas (which is 30% at most). Our seas are already lacking of resources due to over-fishing so they have no choice but to make "fish farms". That again will accommodate massive chunks of land and sea or reclaimed land. 

The last and the most important thing you have to know is conflict. Can we avoid "WORLD WAR III" or "NUCLEAR WAR"? I am afraid to say this but "NO". Everyone knows that Nuclear War will definitely destroy the world and it may cause 60 - 90% wipe of population and destroy all the massive structures and technology we built. I am hoping the man that may cause that is not born yet. That's a BIG HOPE.


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## MPOWER (Jun 12, 2007)

If the Pearl Delta Boom go on, than we have a 50 million inhabitant Metro with Shenzhen, Hongkong ... . This Metro will show us the Future off urban living. Tokyo is big but the monster Metro will grow for the next 20 years. In the end it will have around 70-80 Million inhabitants. But thats only one Region, i dont think that the world population will grew over 10 Mrd. .


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

v:zero said:


> ^^ 6 billion
> 
> In the near future the urban sprawls of Japapnese cities would be an early ecumenopolis example of Earth, if it really happens in that matter.


Japan? Never. People sometimes have the most generalized concept of some places. Between 70%-80% of Japan is Mountainous and not suitable for urban, industrial or residential development. Almost all of the current made made land uses are on the remaining 20%-30% flat area, and there is still a good deal of that which is left in a natural state.

This is why Japan has such high densities as it must condense the population into the remaining habitable area's.

There is also a cultural hindrance as well, as the Japanese hold great respect for the mountainous regions which also have religious significance. For this reason, they are generously covered in forests. If you ever travel around Japan, one thing you will notice is how forested the country is, and how even in dense built up area's the hills are often left as natural.


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## aussiescraperman (Apr 5, 2005)

earth no, mars possible. it doesn't have much of a varied terrain and it is alot smaller...or even our moon before earth. that would be cool, it would light up at night


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## ChicagoFan (May 25, 2006)

Next year half the world's population will be living in cities. 
Could it happen? Yes
Will it? Maybe, if nothing drastic happens to the world.


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## SungIEman (Jul 25, 2004)

sharpie20 said:


> Lol nice photo shop, As much as i think it would be cool to have such a big urban sprawl, I don't think that humanity wouldn't allow it's self to completely colonize every corner of this planet, it would totally spoil the natural beauty that this planet possesses. And if we did do that how would we be able to feed our selves, and so on.


We take pills (imagine roasted chicken flavored pill), and real food will become a luxury affordable only to those in the top 1% richest. (even so you might, it might be considered unhealthy, too much fat, etc...) As to nature, we'll be using virtual reality as an escape, no more 2D "second life".

But then maybe I just watched a tad too many sci-fi movies.:nuts:


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## ERGO PROXY (Jul 21, 2007)

Kiss the Rain said:


> It occurred to me that with the steady urbanization worldwide, the earth may one day turn into and ecumenopolis(entire planet covered with city), much like the planet-city coruscant in star wars.
> Do you think the people would allow for that to happen, if yes, how long do you think it will take.


Not even in millions of years. Have you ever been in US? Population of states such as North Dakota, South Dakota, and Montana is less then a million people. Each of these states as big as Japan, but even Japan has still has rural areas.


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## Cobucci (Jun 30, 2005)

Kiss the Rain said:


> Good to see this thread revived.


Don't you like nature???


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## japanese001 (Mar 17, 2007)

chris_underscore47 said:


> This Is the New York part of the Eumencopolis


The wall will be covered in green at that time.


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## Kiss the Rain (Apr 2, 2006)

Cobucci said:


> Don't you like nature???


A question, what IS nature?

Is it the physical surrounding of earth except human's creations? Humans are an organism living on earth, amongst the millions of other organisms, many of these organism, because of their very presences, shape the physical surroundings. Infact, many of them made a livable temperature and atomsphere possible. In the same way, our presence shape the physical surrounding, why is this altered surrounding not be considered as "nature"? Are we not just another organism living on earth?

People speak of things like "mother nature" without considering it's meaning.


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## Kiss the Rain (Apr 2, 2006)

If changing the present state of our physical surrounding is destroying the nature, then if on an planet unfit for life like Jupiter, basic organism starts to appear and gradually terraforming the planet-atomsphere, water, warmer temperature. 
Is that not destroying the nature??


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## Kiss the Rain (Apr 2, 2006)

In the same sense, why should we feel guilty if we were to destroy the "nature"? Provided its negative impact is smaller than the benefits to humans overall.


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## Cristovão471 (May 9, 2006)

Ecumenopolis will never happen. ever. 

Even the thought of that would be horrible.
I Could never imagine the whole of Russia being one large city.
We need like 10 trillion for something like that, maybe more.


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## Cobucci (Jun 30, 2005)

Kiss the Rain said:


> In the same sense, why should we feel guilty if we were to destroy the "nature"? Provided its negative impact is smaller than the benefits to humans overall.


Are you a robot?? Have you ever been in a Biology class??

We can't live without nature as we know. We are totally dependent of the environment. We aren't self sufficient. I live in a city (Rio) where the nature is essential. Without the clean sea and the biggest urban forest that we have, it would be impossible to live here...


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## wcgokul (Dec 27, 2005)

maybe 5000-10000 years from now.....


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## xXFallenXx (Jun 15, 2007)

the shear # of people needed for an Ecumenopolis would be in the 10's or 100's of trillions.
Which will simply not happen.
If the human race continues to experience the exponential growth that it is experiencing now then maybe it is possible. But this won't happen.


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## Cristovão471 (May 9, 2006)

^^ Yet growth is slowing down in Europe, which may eventually decline, also east asia. Even JApan with 120,000 million+ people, there is still a large proportion of nature compared to urban areas.


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## Kiss the Rain (Apr 2, 2006)

majorness said:


> human life DEPENDS 100% ON NATURE.....
> 
> u need WATER IN ORDER TO LIVE
> 
> ...


Yes yes, i understand we are dependent on the environment right now, but have you not read what i said? "PROVIDED THE BENEFIT TO HUMAN IS GREATER THAN THE NEGATIVE IMPACT OVERALL."

If we were to destroy the environment right now, OF COURSE THE NEGATIVE WILL EXCEED THE BENEFIT! But will it be so in the farrrrrr future? The advance from hunting to breeding animals is already an indication of our ability to gradually engineer the environment artifically to our benefit. 

So please note that my proposition is CONDITIONAL!!


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## Kiss the Rain (Apr 2, 2006)

And to those people who are drawing conclusion from the current trend in population growth, why are you so short sighted?? 

Do you not learn from stats or physics that the longer the period you observe, the more valid and reliable the trend is?

Population change have always been volitile, there have been great increase and decline in population many times in history, but if you expand your horizon a bit and look at the whole course of human history, is the trend not increasing??? 

And have i not emphasised the word "eventually"? Which means the time span can extends to infinity, and in fact, due to the very nature of the word, it implys anything that is possible to happen WILL happen in the time span of infinity.


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## Kiss the Rain (Apr 2, 2006)

Also, please read my argument on what is nature on the previous page, why is a house not part of nature, why is a city not part of nature, wh is an Ecumenopolis not nature, furthermore, why is anything created by human not nature. 

Be it iron, oxygen, carbon, copper, whatever the element, arent they all matters, but with differently arranged electron and nucleus composition, so why should certain element and compound not be nature and some are??


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## Don Omar (Aug 10, 2006)

so i was bored in class today and thanks to this thread this is what i did instead of taking notes. thanks skyscapercity and photoshop.










ps i feel like a nerd but this star wars wikipedia is amazing


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## Azia (Nov 18, 2007)

*???*

the world an ecumenopolis!? good question?:cheers:

I think no, because 71% of the world earth are water , and only 29 % are landmass !

So there will never be an ecumenopolis on earth .

But some cities can catch 40 or 30 million line !(Tokyo, Mumbai ...)

So thats my answer !:cheers:


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## Zicyx (Jun 6, 2007)

Kiss the Rain said:


> Yes yes, i understand we are dependent on the environment right now, but have you not read what i said? "PROVIDED THE BENEFIT TO HUMAN IS GREATER THAN THE NEGATIVE IMPACT OVERALL."
> 
> If we were to destroy the environment right now, OF COURSE THE NEGATIVE WILL EXCEED THE BENEFIT! But will it be so in the farrrrrr future? The advance from hunting to breeding animals is already an indication of our ability to gradually engineer the environment artifically to our benefit.
> 
> So please note that my proposition is CONDITIONAL!!


Yes, exactly. I like your ideas. I always have the same discussion with my friends about what "nature" is



> Originally Posted by majorness View Post
> human life DEPENDS 100% ON NATURE.....
> 
> u need WATER IN ORDER TO LIVE
> ...


About this, 
- we can make oxygen with electrolysis
- Of course a planet covered with city can have sunshine. Even in new york there is plenty of sunlight. But we dont really need it. People are living half a year in the dark at the polars. Others are staying in the ISS station for a year without sunshine or fresh air.
- You can always sleep ofcourse even if everything is city.
- We already have so-called farm-flats. Here in the netherlands we have plans to build a 9 story building just for pigs and most of our food comes from greenhouses here where you can change every aspact of the climate.
(http://www.telenmettoekomst.nl/files/images/kassen.jpg and http://www.hogla.nl/afbeeldingen/Kassen2.jpg)
- The same counts for people. Most of the buildings that are build today have very advanced climate systems
And this is al possible just NOW. Imagine what is possible over say a 1000 years.

Its not the future I would like to see, but i am sure it is possible to live without ''nature''


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## LMCA1990 (Jun 18, 2005)

It'd be cool, but I like trees. Also, I don't like superskyscrapers. They just look like an eyesore. I guess we'd have lo colonize other plantes for resources 'cause Coruscant supposedly has a trillion inhabitants and is just a little bit bigger than the earth. Where does Coruscant get its water?


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## bobbycuzin (May 30, 2007)

no way in hell, earth will more likely look like this:


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## Zicyx (Jun 6, 2007)

lmcm1990 said:


> It'd be cool, but I like trees. Also, I don't like superskyscrapers. They just look like an eyesore. I guess we'd have lo colonize other plantes for resources 'cause Coruscant supposedly has a trillion inhabitants and is just a little bit bigger than the earth. Where does Coruscant get its water?


You can have water reservoirs beneath the city. Just cover the lakes with a very big roof and build buildings on top of it. Of course its not possible now because we don't have the right materials to build such big constructions over large areas like a lake.

edit: There is a video about vertical farming on ccn here:
http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/tech/2007/11/19/natpkg.vertical.farming.cnn


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## Depotmaster (Sep 22, 2007)

I don't think it would be nice to live in such a place. We would have to farm food in multilevel farming buildings. That would require a lot of energy. Where should the Energy come from? Sun energy is limited.


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## Ekumenopolis (Feb 2, 2005)

Ok, it's not possible! But let me dream!!


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## Thorgeirr (Oct 3, 2007)

Kiss the Rain said:


> It occurred to me that with the steady urbanization worldwide, the earth may one day turn into and ecumenopolis(entire planet covered with city), much like the planet-city coruscant in star wars.
> Do you think the people would allow for that to happen, if yes, how long do you think it will take.


Why would it?


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## Cristovão471 (May 9, 2006)

So you Ecumenopolis lovers, would you like the oceans to be paved and then have buildings built on top?


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