# The worst crime in architecture?



## Febo (Dec 9, 2005)

Hi! I've always loved the Singer Building building, which I consider one of the most beautiful of the beggining of the 20st century in New York and even in the world.
I mean...I just cannot believe it was demolished! I know that many cities in all the world -like here in Argentina- lose important old buildings, valuable architecturally.
But Singer Building was a JEWEL, and in my opinion, is the saddest loss in modern architecture. Even if they had built a 500 mt tall tower with a futuristic design, I wouldn't have approved this demolition
What do you think? Do you agree? Or do you think that there were worse architectural losses? And if you have more photos, or more information bout this building, I'll appreciate it.


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

Yes utterly idiotic.

But who knows, ugly towers from the 60's-70's are being destroyed nowadays. Maybe we will cry their loss in 40 years.


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## ZZ-II (May 10, 2006)

for me it was. the singer building was a wonderful building, and not small. maybe the tower which has replaced it is taller but not more beautiful


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## erbse (Nov 8, 2006)

*The Berlin Castle, that was replaced by the "Palace of the Republic" +_+*

I wanna show you the probably worst crime in urban planning in Germany... But I'm warning u: It's goin to be tough :lol: 

It's the *Palast der Republik* (=Palace of the Republic) in Berlin I'm referring to.

Just look at this architectural desaster... I could cry by staring at this:



















What an eyesore in the heart of my country's capital hno: 









And THIS was in place of it before these stupid communists came and torned it down (after a reparable damage in WW2) and built the ugly Palast der Republik instead of this architectural gem: The *Stadtschloss* (=Berlin city castle)



















On this pic (with the Berlin castle on the right edge) you can see the impressive size and the perfect location of this grand castle. It was absolutely gorgeous!









But - FINALLY - they are going to torn down the ugly "Palace of the Republic" and replace it with the *Reconstruction of the Berlin castle*! The former glory of Berlin is going to rise again :banana: 

The tearing down of the Palast (in March 2007):








Btw: The top of the Berlin Cathedral is in repairing and so on 

Berlin gets back its historical value in the middle of its heart!









Can't wait to see that completed one day :cheers: 

For further information about the grand castle of Berlin =)


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## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

^
Great, the destruction of the communist palace makes me realy happy. Cant wait for the castle either. Will be fantastic.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

More information of the Palace of the Republic project : http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=307542


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

OK this may hurt the eyes, a drop in the ocean of what Londons's lost over time to idiot greed, which it seems we excelled at after the war. All these are demolitions:

350 ft high
















































Methinks the best building of all, the spectacular Indian Pavilion...











and now -spot the difference- occupied by a BBC office and benches noone would want to sit at:










More:



















Ye Olde London Bars (gates).










Ye Olde London Bridge From Southwark & Ye Citty Of London.




















the 'new one', removed to Havasu Lake City, Arizona in the 1960s

















and in turn replaced with this concrete flyover, I kid ye not, youre now looking at the world famous London Bridge:












Euston Arch and Station, demolished in the 1960s, an absolute neccessity to make longer platforms. The blocks were ground up and thrown as lining into a canal.


























...and replaced by this. Oh btw, they never did lengthen the platforms either :brickwall:.










building in the centre, no 1 Poultry, demolished in the 1980s

















and replaced by this ship like building (I quite like it)











The Junior Carlton Hotel,built in 1864,demolished in 1963











The Imperial Institute,built in 1893,demolished in 1957 



















and its seamless replacement











St. Thomas Hospital,built in 1871,damaged in WWII and later demolished:



















its main block today, can you believe this faces Big Ben across the river?











Columbia Market,built in 1869,demolished between 1958 and 1966




















Imperial Hotel, built in 1911 and demolished in 1966. This is my favourite of all of them, its so Germanic looking like a castle:











Carlton Hotel,built in 1899 and demolished in 1958.










and its replacement. Ouch:











Royal Horticultural Society Gardens 1871











International Exhibition Building 1862, demolished two years after it was built. The domes were the largest ever built.











Bethlem Hospital, Mooregate











Firestone Building, demolished recently by a vandal developer before it could be listed.











Pantheon Oxford Street 1772. Was built on the site of current day Marks & Spencers (Tottenham Court Road end of Oxford Street).

























Robinsons Flour Mills Deptford

















The iconic Coal Exchange, demolished in the 60s:


































Nonsuch Palace 1538, so called so that nonsuch palace would ever be built like it, check out the onion domes. Demolsihed 1690s

































more domes in Richmond Palace 1299-1495, demolished 1765:



























Since the greedy developer crimes of the 1960s and 1970s, age now guarantees automatic listing of buildings- there are now 30,000 protected buildings in London, but some are still at stake believe it or not.

Crown Estates (remember that name) are currently trying to knock the historic Regents Hotel down:










the original plan was complete knockdown:










the revised plans still include the demolition of the middle of the building and insertion of neo brutalist crap:











also at grave risk is the historic Regent St next door that they own and can legally demolish (its 'only' 80 years old and misses the 100 year old deadline):


























also slated for demolition by *Crown Estates* is the three cornered Metropole Hotel :bash: :









but there is a campaign to save it. The plans are off for now but look likely to start up again.


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

This kind of thing needs to stop all around the world. I hit my head on the wall to think even in preservation nimby infested London, so learned from the brutal mistakes of the 60s and 70s and sitting on its fat arse laurels and patting itself on the back, is in reality _still_ demolishing in the traditional name of greed. 
Almost all the old interiors of every building in the city has been gutted and replaced with corporate cube offices and strip lighting - and all this has happened ion the last decade and not one preservation society or news report has given a damn. ..ANd now notorious landowners Crown Estates is helping yet another historic city inch by inch become a modern/postmodern majority. The future for London increasingly seems like the same for Berlin/ Beijing/ Moscow/ Milan, its greatest hits preserved or rebuilt, while the rest is as globalised and anonymous as any modern swathe of LA or Singapore. For one noticeable change London is rapidly becoming a flat roofed boxy city.

Basically from this:











to this, cosmetic preservation: 










Im all for progess, but not when its the corporate psychotic standard-business-practice future. I can think of more in life than working and shopping... Personally too I dont get overwhelmed with a sense of history when all that's kept is the street layout or road name as a reminder.


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## savas (Apr 10, 2005)

Unfortunately crimes like this happens as it seem everywhere

Athens, Greece

Aktaion Palace Hotel demolished in the early of the 20th Century hno: 


















Municipal Theatre demolished in the late 20's hno:


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

This was done in Paris, true the original structure was not that beautifull, and as such, moreso than an architectural crime, it was a social crime. Because this place was the heart and soul of the city.

So what am I talking about? The former Halles in central Paris, where tradditionaly existed a huge merchant market.

The market was mooved to the southern suburbs in Rungis, but it never became what it was before.

Instead they built a huge metro/rer station, Chatelet-les-halles and an underground mall. Everybody hates this station today, and the project to rebuild it is going nowhere.

So here are the old "Halles de Paris":





























This is where they moved them, in a dull southern suburb:









Today the world's largest market.

And this is the station they replaced it with this in the 70's:









It may not look like it from the outside, but the place is a mess and is a shame for the city once you are inside. Typical 70's stupidity.


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

^what are the new plans for that area? I heard Chatelet Les Halles is one of the busiest metro stations in the world.

The same thing happened in London, the old fruit n veg market Covent Garden was slated for demolition and slated for a block of 70s office blocks over some roundabouts (eugh!). They moved the market to an almost identical one like the one in Paris, south of the river. However in a landmark case the locals managed to fend off the developers and preserve the area by squatting in the buildings. Its now a tourist ghetto.


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

Well initialy a few years ago they launched an architectural contest to rebuild the area.

However after many idiocities, abandonned projects, lack of ambition, administrative mess, we are almost back at step one today.


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## TalB (Jun 8, 2005)

I won't argue that it was wrong to demolish the Singer Bldg for 1 Liberty Plaza. The same thing when the took down the stationhouse of Penn Station to build MSG over it. However, I find that replacing the Twins, a worldwide symbol, with that ilegitimate replacement known as the Freedom Tower to be the worse crime than those two combined. It is as if saying that officialls were looking for a way to get rid of them, and 9/11 gave them every reason to do so. It is like saying that we should replace the ESB with something less or any other major building in other city b/c they are expendable. Please do not grill me for saying this, b/c this is just my opinion and it only reprsents me.

Right skyline. :yes:









Wrong skyline. hno:


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## _00_deathscar (Mar 16, 2005)

Other than the reason for the demolition, what's wrong with the new one? Architecturally far far better than the bland old-WTC.

Hong Kong in the construction boom in the 70's and 80's and went through a lot of demolition, particularly around Victorian Central, where many buildings, including the old Hong Kong Club House, were demolished.


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

Whatever hapenned, the WTC towers were still ugly as hell buildings.


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## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

the spliff fairy said:


> OK this may hurt the eyes, a drop in the ocean of what Londons's lost over time to idiot greed, which it seems we excelled at after the war. All these are demolitions:
> 
> Ye Olde London Bars (gates).
> 
> ...


Thats really sad to see. I didnt know that the old London Bridge had buildings on it. It looks awesome.
I imagine how it could be today with the busses going over it.
And the Pantheon would be great too in Oxford street.
Right now the street is full with retailers so it would have been great to have a big cultural building there which is open to the public.

Great thread btw.
Ill add some stuff from Berlin when I have more time.


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## Inkdaub (Dec 28, 2006)

This...





































became this...





























All photos from Wikipedia. Sorry about the size on the last few...I'm not so good at posting pics I guess.


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

ohmigawd that is feckin horrific. What is wrong with people???

wtf possesses someone to deem this as unworthy:










and replace it with this?? Personally imo this is NOT an improvement:


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

Checker said:


> Thats really sad to see. I didnt know that the old London Bridge had buildings on it. It looks awesome.
> I imagine how it could be today with the busses going over it.
> And the Pantheon would be great too in Oxford street.
> Right now the street is full with retailers so it would have been great to have a big cultural building there which is open to the public.
> ...


yep the story of the thousand year old London Bridge is gradual decline. It was filled with houses when in 1212 it caught fire at both ends in one of Londons sporadic infernos and 3000 people were drowned or killed in the crush- amazingly it survived for centuries more. The Great Fire of 1666 swept past and it was once again spared, but by the 18th century the bridge was cleared of its houses and gates (where the heads of the executed were impaled and left to rot as warning/ greeting) to aid congestion. It was finally torn down and replaced in the 1830s by an elegant though impersonal bridge, which in turn was sold for 1 million quid to an American investor, rumour has it was thinking he was buying the iconic Tower Bridge. He rebuilt it in the Arizona desert at a lake resort. This was replaced by the current concrete masterpiece of a 6 lane highway looking for all purposes like a motorway bridge.

If the trend continues they might aswell get rid of the current one and replace it with a great steaming pile of turd.


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## Aboveday (Aug 8, 2003)

Jesus Christ !Almost all of the greatest building in London have been torned down and replaced with crap in 1950s!


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## philvia (Jun 22, 2006)

out with the old, in with the new


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## Sbz2ifc (Apr 16, 2006)

The following two buildings in Bucharest, Romania were destroyed in 1939 to widen the plaza of the Royal Palace:

The Commercial Academy 








the building on the right of the Commercial Academy is the former Palace of Carol I University Foundation (now BCU)

The Nation Bank








(with BCU on the left, with the statue of Carol I in front of it)


The Royal Palace (well, it's an interesting building as well, but common... tear down those two just so this one could have a wider plaza?)









This is how the area looks today(the Royal Palace on the left, BCU in the middle):








(most people in Bucharest dislike that Skewered Potato monument)


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## JPBrazil (Mar 12, 2007)

TalB said:


> Right skyline. :yes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think they should re-build the WTC but in black, it would be choking


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## TalB (Jun 8, 2005)

If they are to be rebuilt, they will look more like this, and this hardly status-quo ante-bellum.


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## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

Some examples of destroyed trainstations from Berlin.

*Görlitzer Bahnhof *completed 1866


















torn down in 1951. reason being: the land on which it stood was needed:

this is how it looks today: (its a park :bash: )










*Anhalter Bahnhof *completed in 1841



























blown up in 1959. Reason: a new trainstation should have been built and the old building was damaged and therefore too dangerous.
Turns out that the building was so stable that they had to blow it up.

Today its no-mans land.
This is what has been left of the station:










Platform remains:










*Lehrter Bahnhof * built in 1868, torn down in 1951 and replaced with no-mans land


















*Potsdamer Bahnhof *completed in 1838, heavily damaged during the war and later completely removed.










Today:










*Stettiner Bahnhof * completed in 1842


















torn down in 1962

Whats left of it today:


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## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

eklips said:


> Whatever hapenned, the WTC towers were still ugly as hell buildings.


No, they were beautiful.


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## MoreOrLess (Feb 17, 2005)

eklips said:


> Yes utterly idiotic.
> 
> But who knows, ugly towers from the 60's-70's are being destroyed nowadays. Maybe we will cry their loss in 40 years.


Very few I'd guess, a mixture of lack of funds and corrupt devolpers who misused concepts of "form follows function" to give totally uninspired proposals fake credibility.


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## El_Greco (Apr 1, 2005)

Depressing thread...


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## Sbz2ifc (Apr 16, 2006)

Could people please stop talking about the WTC? It's normal to mention it, but I'm sure that there are specific threads for further debate. Don't hijack this one.


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## TalB (Jun 8, 2005)

NYC alone has a number of crimes in architecture. However, most don't even know that many of its major buildings were built over places that could have been saved. Another thing is that NYC is one of the last cities in the world to preserve its past especially if it's in a major area. This is unfortunate but true in many cases.

WTC: Built over Raido Row and the Hudson Terminal Bldgs.
ESB: Built over the original Waldorf-Astoria Hotel.
MSG: Built over the station house of Penn Station.
1 Liberty Plaza: Built over the Singer Bldg.
Citigroup Ctr: Built over the original St Peter's Lutheran Church.
Rockefeller Ctr: Built over numerous blocks in midtown Manhattan.
WSB: Built over numerous rows in Ft Green.
MTC: Built over numerous blocks in downtown Brooklyn.
TWC: Built over the NY Coliseum.
1 Bryant Pk: Built over the Remington Bldg.
Housing projects by Robert Moses: Built over numerous blocks in the LES and Harlem.


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## _00_deathscar (Mar 16, 2005)

goschio said:


> No, they were beautiful.


What is beautiful about two bland monoliths?


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## Metropolitan (Sep 21, 2004)

What about the Abbay of Cluny ?
It's been destroyed during the French revolution, when it was then the 2nd largest church in the world after St-Peter's. Built in 910 AD, it used to be the largest Romanesque church in the world.










Here's what remains nowadays : one wing.


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## PresidentBjork (Apr 29, 2007)

Chicago was the birthplace of the modern skyscraper as you all know. But the loosely grouped architects that worked as part of the late 19th century Chicago school of architecture were also the innovators in other fields. Terra Cotta in large buildings and the use of large bay windows, exploiting the newest technologies of the day, were their recurring themes. In addition many made contributions to city planning and urban development as present today as the the notion of the skyscraper. 

Their influence may have wained after the 1893 Columbia exhibition, which set the style for beaux arts, classicist architecture, but the ideas they espoused returned in European modernism and the shift towards streamlining in 30's America. 

After all it was Louis Sullivan that coined the phrase 'Form ever follows function' to be modified into Ludwig Mies de Rohe axiom 'form is function' years later.

Sadly, a lot of these masterpieces have been lost to the same forces of trade and retail that lead to their construction, mixed with the hubris of postwar city planning.

Here are some:

William Le Baron Jenney is seen as the father of the modern skyscraper, innovator of the steel framed in office buildings. One of his most famous buildings, often cited as the world's first true skyscraper was the Home Insurance Building, built in 1885 demolished in 1931:










Another; the first Lieter building, the inspiration of the Lieter II which still stands today. Built 1879, demolished in 1972.











William Holabird and Martin Roche met whilst working as draftsmen in William Le Baron Jenney's office. 
Their eventual firm would build the famous Tacoma building with engineer George Fuller. Being the first building not to rely on its outer walls for load bearing, the light bay windows (so associated with the 'Chicago style') were installed. Completed in 1889, demolished in 1929.










Another skyscraper pioneer, Daniel Burnham, in conjunction with John Root, built many famous Chicago school buildings. Upons Root's death, many criticized Burnham for embracing the new classicist style which Louis Sullivan claimed would put architecture 'back 50 years.' However, his fame only increased with many landmark buildings attributed to his name and that of John Root. 

The Masonic temple Building in 1892, a year after Root's death, was briefly the world's tallest building.










Demolished in 1939, an expedient to subway construction, was replaced with a two story building!

Another Burnham; the less known Majestic Building, built in 1896, became famous when its innovative Terra Cotta construction contained a fire in 1915, that could have spread and destroyed other buildings easily.









demolished in 1962.

Louis Sulivan, perhaps the most famous of these architects, joined the prestigious firm of Darkman and Alder in 1879. Together, Louis Sullivan designed numerous buildings of superb quality. Although, heavily influenced by French Beaux-arts design whilst working in the offices of John Elderman, he always argued that design should be integral to a building's form, balanced throughout. He believed in the idea that ornamentation should be integral to the building itself, rather than merely applied.

However, his buildings were not immune to the wrecker's ball either, in fact, most have gone -
The Stock exchange of Chicago was built in 1894, demolished in 1972.










Schiller theater was finished in 1892, knocked down in 1960. 










Designed by Edward Baumann and Harris W. Huehl, the (third) Chamber of Commerce Building was erected on the southeast corner of LaSalle and Washington Streets between 1888 and 1889. It was influenced by the Home Insurance building and was the most advanced work of structural art at the time of its completion. Demolished in 1928.










These are just some of the buildings that are now gone. Even if individually some may have been too obscure to be a loss on a par of some of the greatest, the collective loss of so much architectural history, in many cases completely unnecessarily, should be lamented.

Unfortunately, there are still perils facing the remaining buildings. 
The historic Farewell Building, located on the magnificent Mile, a designated Landmark, is in danger from a scheme put forward by Prism developments. They propose to demolish it, and rebuild its facade into the lower portion of a new 40 story apartment tower complete with fake windows to hide the parking garage behind it- almost as a patronising jest to what came before. 

A building is more than its facade, the internal design is of equal importance, to deny this would be leveling the status of Landmark to a triviality, endangering all other buildings with this status. The very thing it was meant to prevent. 

'This French inspired design, highlighted with both Art Deco and Classical Revival details, exemplified the work of architect Philip Maher. Clad in limestone, the building features ornamental cast stone panels and a slate mansard roof.' - 'preservationchicago.org'


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## TalB (Jun 8, 2005)

_00_deathscar said:


> What is beautiful about two bland monoliths?


It depends on who is viewing it.


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## Febo (Dec 9, 2005)

OHhhh!!! I didn't know that this kind of things happened so oftenly in "developed countries" too. 
Such a pity tha German Castle, and the imperial institute in London, it was so beautiful.

This is an "before and after" in Buenos Aires. Although I still like how the corner is now, with its combination, this change was very criticized in the argentinian forum. Notice for reference, the mansion in the middle:


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## FM 2258 (Jan 24, 2004)

TalB said:


> I won't argue that it was wrong to demolish the Singer Bldg for 1 Liberty Plaza. The same thing when the took down the stationhouse of Penn Station to build MSG over it. However, I find that replacing the Twins, a worldwide symbol, with that ilegitimate replacement known as the Freedom Tower to be the worse crime than those two combined. It is as if saying that officialls were looking for a way to get rid of them, and 9/11 gave them every reason to do so. It is like saying that we should replace the ESB with something less or any other major building in other city b/c they are expendable. Please do not grill me for saying this, b/c this is just my opinion and it only reprsents me.
> 
> Right skyline. :yes:
> 
> ...


I agree. I don't think I'll ever think of the New York Skyline without the original World Trade Center. I don't know why they wouldn't just fucking rebuild the twins. It's like knocking down the Sears Tower, Eiffel Tower, Jin Mao, or Petronas towers and building something else. What the ****. :bash: :bash: :bash:



I should add that demolishing the Singer Building was really stupid as well. It was a beautiful looking building.


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## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

*Karstadt Berlin * (department store) built in 1929 

It was not torn down but blown up by retreating german soldiers during the battle of Berlin in 1945.


















Nowadays:


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## DecoJim (Dec 6, 2005)

Much as I like the design of the Singer Building, I would say the destruction of the Penn Station has to be the worst Architectural crime in US history.

Checker: 
Weren't any of those Berlin stations damaged by bombs in 1945?

PresidentBjork:
Since all of your other posted buildings were in Chicago, I thought I would point out that Daniel Burnham's Majestic Building is located in Detroit and was one that city's early skyscrapers. His firm built four high-rise buidings in Detroit from 1890 to about 1920. The Majestic was torn down as you noted while the other three still stand: Ford Building (in use), David Whitney Building (empty), and Dime Building (in use).

As far as the WTC goes, the primary intent of the 19 highjackers was not to commit a crime against architecture. Perhaps this thread should be limited to architecture that was willfully destroyed by the owners (or by the city through eminant domain) rather than by acts of war.


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## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

DecoJim said:


> Checker:
> Weren't any of those Berlin stations damaged by bombs in 1945?


Yes, some were only a bit damaged and others were damaged heavily.
Dont forget the battle of Berlin aswell during which a lot of buildings were destroyed.
But, as far as I know, all stations were being usd again after the war.
They could have easily been saved and restored.


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## PresidentBjork (Apr 29, 2007)

Yeah, sorry, I gotta a bit carried away with Daniel Burnham and should have mentioned it was in Detroit. 

However, I still see it as an example of how in many cases the early skyscrapers face peril. 

The loss or potential loss of architectural history in Detroit deserves its own specific post.


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## TalB (Jun 8, 2005)

DecoJim said:


> As far as the WTC goes, the primary intent of the 19 highjackers was not to commit a crime against architecture. Perhaps this thread should be limited to architecture that was willfully destroyed by the owners (or by the city through eminant domain) rather than by acts of war.


While you are right that the demolition was like that of no other, replacing it with that so-called officiall plan is a crime in architecture when it should have been rebuilt from the start.


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## nygirl (Jul 14, 2003)

^^ Says you, he who has no official say down there. A young man from upstate New York who loved the twins. Big deal. Whining about it still doesn't bring them back. The fact that they are actually building something new and not even considering the rebuilding of outdated architecture is a crime? Why is it a crime exactly? And no sentimental if the esb were destroyed nonsense.. it isn't so therefore it should stay out of the topic. Why exactly is it a "crime"?


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## ElVoltageDR (Jul 24, 2005)

I think the 60's and 70's was a terrible time for NYC architecture in general. The demolition of the Singer was just the peak of this terrible time.


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## _00_deathscar (Mar 16, 2005)

TalB said:


> While you are right that the demolition was like that of no other, replacing it with that so-called officiall plan is a crime in architecture when it should have been rebuilt from the start.


Then you'd have 5 gazillion protestors and demonstrators getting a stroke because the plan to rebuild the WTC wasn't 'original'.

You can't please everyone - they did the right thing.


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## Drunkill (Jul 31, 2004)

Melbourne Fish markets.

































Great building, torn down in 1958 to build a bridge over the river behind it.









it was a carpark for many years but now it's being redeveloped into some apartments and offices.


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## nygirl (Jul 14, 2003)

^^ Damn that really sucks. It stings actually. What does the bridge look like?


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## krull (Oct 8, 2005)

hno: The Savoy Plaza Hotel (1927, demolished 1964) replace by the huge big boxy 1968 Ganeral Motors building...



















I don't mind it, but they shouldn't demolished that nice hotel on such a nice spot. They should it found other better sites at that time for tha GM building.


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## erbse (Nov 8, 2006)

^ I agree with you... In most cases the human stupidity in urban planning was just ridicoulous in the second half of the 20th century hno: 
Which aesthetic and economic motives had been there for such serious wrong decisions? Some people seem to lack any kinda taste.... :bash:


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## rincon (Mar 21, 2007)

This thread is making me cry!


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## Amrafel (Nov 26, 2006)

*Bratislava, Slovakia - podhradie*

in the 60s commies destroyed a huge part of old Bratislava- old jewish town include beatiful synagogue and city wards Vydrica and Zuckermandel


































the most of red area was destroyed









now there is one of the landmarks of bratislava :nuts: 









and the monster-highway in the centre of old town









yes, the bridge is nice, but his location...hno: 

there are some plans to rebuild vydrica and zuckermandel, but this plans are horrible :bash:


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## TalB (Jun 8, 2005)

Double post.


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## TalB (Jun 8, 2005)

nygirl said:


> ^^ Says you, he who has no official say down there. A young man from upstate New York who loved the twins. Big deal. Whining about it still doesn't bring them back. The fact that they are actually building something new and not even considering the rebuilding of outdated architecture is a crime? Why is it a crime exactly? And no sentimental if the esb were destroyed nonsense.. it isn't so therefore it should stay out of the topic. Why exactly is it a "crime"?


The PA of NY/NJ own that site, which makes it public. Since we vote for the governors who appoint them, I do have a say. If that wasn't the case, then there wouldn't have been public hearings based on it. Replacing the Twins with the Fraudem Tower is more than a just a crime in architecture, it is also a crime in democracy, especially when this decision was made behind closed doors. Those who didn't want them rebuilt, never liked this kind of architecture in the beginning and used their destruction as an excuse to not have them back. For more, go here to read about why it is important to have them back. On a sidenote, I did not spend the last five years whinning about it, I actually went to public hearings and wrote to the media on what I wanted.


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## Yörch1 (Oct 31, 2006)

One of the worst acrhitectural crimes in Mexico City is the unfinished Legilative Palace better known as Revolution Monument.

In the first decade they werw building a Palace to host legislative chambers in the country, it had to look like this:










And they began to build it...









But, the Mexican Revolution came and the government changed and sadly there were no plans to finish this palace that revolutionary people calles an excessive demonstration of rancide opulency.

Now, it is the Rovelution Monument and looks like this:


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## nygirl (Jul 14, 2003)

TalB said:


> The PA of NY/NJ own that site, which makes it public. Since we vote for the governors who appoint them, I do have a say. If that wasn't the case, then there wouldn't have been public hearings based on it. Replacing the Twins with the Fraudem Tower is more than a just a crime in architecture, it is also a crime in democracy, especially when this decision was made behind closed doors. Those who didn't want them rebuilt, never liked this kind of architecture in the beginning and used their destruction as an excuse to not have them back. For more, go here to read about why it is important to have them back. On a sidenote, I did not spend the last five years whinning about it, I actually went to public hearings and wrote to the media on what I wanted.


Lol do you think you are the only person in the state of New York that pays taxes? I pay taxes and vote as well and I am quite happy to have them built. Alot of good writing the media did you. Fraudem tower? Cute. Your twins aint getting rebuilt. Why even post the link? You know I'm not going to read it, who are you trying to convince?


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## New Jack City (Dec 29, 2002)

Definitely one of the worst. 

Another crime in history has to be the demolition of the Old Penn Station in NYC for Madison Square Garden.


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## TalB (Jun 8, 2005)

Nygirl, I never said that, you did. I insist that you read that link b/c it answers the questions you seek. I am not lying about what I said b/c I have a whole collection of my letters to the editor are mentioned in the Twin Towers Advocacy thread. Even if you don't click the link, here is the paragraph that states that not having them back is a crime in architecture.

"Gov. Pataki pandered to elitists, who thought it would be "too bad to erase the erasure" – as if our property were their sketch pad, and established ground rules that, unknown to the general public, kept the option of rebuilding the Towers off the table."

"The media allowed detractors to pretend that the Twin Towers were not popular, while refusing to give the opposing viewpoint equal time – or, for the most part, any time. A recent Harris poll of "America's Favorite Architecture" placed them in the Top 20 on the list of the 150 most popular structures."

"The process that gave us the current plan was a slap in the face to the American public. It was dishonest and condescending. That's not a secret and we can back up what we say."

"The Twin Towers were not generic buildings - they were world-famous icons. They stood for something. And if they are lost, so is what they stood for. If we can't restore one of the signature symbols of our vibrant democracy, then how vibrant can it really be?"


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## nygirl (Jul 14, 2003)

Oh boy hno: hno: hno: I'm glad I don't feel the need to obsess over things I know I cannot change. The fact that not rebuilding 60's boxes is a "crime in architecture" is some pretty silly subjective thinking. The twin towers being destroyed was not the worst crime in architecture because a few politicians, loony bins, and TalB say so folks. It is a crime against humanity and it really isn't even the worst, believe it or not there have been far worse. I'd say there are many examples in here that outweigh the twin towers being destroyed ( as unfortunate for architecture as it was) it was far worse on humanity. 

Let's believe it's a crime on architecture though because someone, somewhere, wrote it in an article that talb read.


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## TalB (Jun 8, 2005)

If the Twins were the most ugliest buildings ever, then why did they make the top 20 of America's Favorite Architecture list? Building that are very ugly would never be ranked that high. BTW, the support the Twins is actually very high since stats tend to show support from both polls and from public hearings. On a sidenote, cut the personal attacks, nygirl, b/c that it is not the right way to debate a topic and I didn't attack you for your views.


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## tanzirian (Jul 13, 2005)

In USA, agree with those who said Penn Station. But some times bad things happen for a reason...demolition of Penn was birth of conservation movement in NY. Hope some day it is rebuilt...I think it would pay for itself in tourist dollars.


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## E -zone ³ (Mar 7, 2005)

I think one of the worst crimes was the destruction of Tenochtitlan by the spanish.


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## E -zone ³ (Mar 7, 2005)

It would be really nice to be able to still behold this old city made above the lake.


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## nygirl (Jul 14, 2003)

TalB said:


> If the Twins were the most ugliest buildings ever, then why did they make the top 20 of America's Favorite Architecture list? Building that are very ugly would never be ranked that high. BTW, the support the Twins is actually very high since stats tend to show support from both polls and from public hearings. On a sidenote, cut the personal attacks, nygirl, b/c that it is not the right way to debate a topic and I didn't attack you for your views.



I never said they were the ugliest buildings ever. That's just your sensitivity taking over. So don't put words in my mouth, mkay?
I am not personally attacking you. You say this everytime. I am stating my opinion and if you don't like it.. change your signature. We are not debating a topic. You usually attack people for their views concerning new development at the trade center site but you have your own sneaky way of doing it. 
Do me a favor to, stop complaining about personal attacks. I didn't personally attack you.. I want to know what you define a personal attack as?
Here is one.. you are insanely overly sensitive. You are also extremely sensitive about the twin towers and you didn't actually lose anyone in them while I did... silly huh? Buildings you had no part of, other than short visits buildings you didn't work in, took no time to build, did not finance. 
^^ Anyone think that's a viscious personal attack against TalB? Or a bit of a reality check?


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## Epi (Jul 21, 2006)

The worst I can think of:

Rome - Virtual demolition of the perfectly preserved Roman Forum and most of the Colosseum for the construction of St. Peter's among other Catholic sites.

Athens - Destruction of the perfectly preserved Parthenon by Napoleon's army using it as a warehouse for gunpowder that accidentally went off

Beijing - Destruction of the ancient city walls (largest and longest city walls in history) to make way for the 1st ring road.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

tanzirian said:


> In USA, agree with those who said Penn Station. But some times bad things happen for a reason...demolition of Penn was birth of conservation movement in NY. Hope some day it is rebuilt...I think it would pay for itself in tourist dollars.


Co-Sign.


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## PresidentBjork (Apr 29, 2007)

Epi said:


> Rome - Virtual demolition of the perfectly preserved Roman Forum and most of the Colosseum for the construction of St. Peter's among other Catholic sites.
> .


but surely those buildings of the Roman Catholic Church are themselves priceless, whereas the walls of Beijing made way for a ring road.


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## TalB (Jun 8, 2005)

tanzirian said:


> In USA, agree with those who said Penn Station. But some times bad things happen for a reason...demolition of Penn was birth of conservation movement in NY. Hope some day it is rebuilt...I think it would pay for itself in tourist dollars.


If they could rebuild a stationhouse for Penn Station over MSG, it would mean that we would loose the General Post Office, also known as the Farley Bldg.


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## nygirl (Jul 14, 2003)

I thought they weren't messing with the exterior at all. I was sure of it. Got any info that they are tearing down the entire building?


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## SuburbanWalker (Jun 23, 2007)

..


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## SuburbanWalker (Jun 23, 2007)

I think the destruction of the Hudson's flagship department store (once the world's biggest) in downtown Detroit is very sad. The city's treasure cove of art deco is its biggest asset and it's a shame Detroit doesn't nurtere it more.


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## TalB (Jun 8, 2005)

nygirl said:


> I thought they weren't messing with the exterior at all. I was sure of it. Got any info that they are tearing down the entire building?


Unless the Dolans will get to keep their tax breaks, it is very likely that it will not pass.


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## arzaranh (Apr 23, 2004)

E -zone ³ said:


> I think one of the worst crimes was the destruction of Tenochtitlan by the spanish.


i concur - correction it is *THE* worst


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## legolamb (Apr 29, 2006)

Poor old Birmingham.

The second largest city in Britain had most of it's grand, beautiful, Victorian city centre ripped out in a rush of post-war 'development'. One example is the central library:

Before (nice  )









After (not so nice  )


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## taboe (Jan 30, 2007)

Hi all, 
I actually started two kinda similar threads a while back, which got some interesting replies...:

Lost gems:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=456483

Biggest mistakes in architecture:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=456006


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## nygirl (Jul 14, 2003)

TalB said:


> Unless the Dolans will get to keep their tax breaks, it is very likely that it will not pass.


How am I supposed to rely on that information? That's just your same negative opinion, not legitimate information.


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## PresidentBjork (Apr 29, 2007)

legolamb said:


> Poor old Birmingham.
> 
> The second largest city in Britain had most of it's grand, beautiful, Victorian city centre ripped out in a rush of post-war 'development'. One example is the central library:


I can never quite get over hubris of post war developers- Birmingham was meant to be Harold Wilson's showcase for a modern Britain, and look what that myopic idea did, - absolutely gutted the place. 

There was also the fare share of corruption, characters like John Poulson with his sticky little fingers in the all the pies. Thanks to him and his council 'friends' places like Pontefract were laid waste, forever annihilating their rich Victorian building legacy. Only to be replaced with, bland, utilitarian and poorly constructed towerblocks. 

The only thing that is in retrospect worse, is the lack of information on what exactly was lost.


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## TalB (Jun 8, 2005)

nygirl said:


> How am I supposed to rely on that information? That's just your same negative opinion, not legitimate information.


I got that from the NY Times, so it is hardly a rant.


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## Inkdaub (Dec 28, 2006)

I just wanted to add that while I do think the twin towers were ugly they were also the greatest of their kind, the big saltine box type.


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## Amrafel (Nov 26, 2006)

Epi said:


> The worst I can think of:
> 
> Athens - Destruction of the perfectly preserved Parthenon by Napoleon's army using it as a warehouse for gunpowder that accidentally went off


I think Parthenon was destroyed by Venetians. Parthenon was used as a warehouse by Turks


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## DannyH (Nov 4, 2006)

@ legolamb;
What idiot could have torn down this beautiful library??? hno:


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## supercees (Nov 18, 2002)

In The Netherlands we also did a thorough job from the 50's to the 70's...

Eindhoven: 
Old city hall








http://62.131.251.223/odd/070505.jpg

Rotterdam:

De Unie (has been rebuild)









Bijenkorf








http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afbeelding:Bijenkorf_Rotterdam_1935.jpg









www.engelfriet.net

Koninginnekerk








www.engelfriet.net

Amsterdam:
Paleis van de volksvlijt (destroyed by fire and the remains by humans)









But maybe the most has been destroyed in The Hague, klick on below link for an overview:
http://homepage.residentie.net/~schram-12/verdween.htm


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## _00_deathscar (Mar 16, 2005)

TalB said:


> If the Twins were the most ugliest buildings ever, then why did they make the top 20 of America's Favorite Architecture list?


Link?



TalB said:


> Building that are very ugly would never be ranked that high.


The Twin Towers did....


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## Lestatlenoir (Jul 16, 2007)

What a shame... the "pre-war" central library had a very intricate design and i cannot understand the need to tore down that fabulous "old" central library....  



legolamb said:


> Poor old Birmingham.
> 
> The second largest city in Britain had most of it's grand, beautiful, Victorian city centre ripped out in a rush of post-war 'development'. One example is the central library:
> 
> ...


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## Wise Fool (Dec 1, 2006)

If you think about it, the people who were old in the 60's and 70's were complete ***holes, what they did in the UK was a crime against history. Notice I'm pointing the finger only at the old/middle-aged ones. The young people during the 60's were very different, such as mods and later hippies, and I think they were pretty cool for that. I just hope one day they knock down those faceless grim rectangles and either rebuild the historic ones (in some cases) or make a world class modern building that future generations will love.


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## Wise Fool (Dec 1, 2006)

hno: Most depressing thread ever  I just can't believe they tore apart that old Gothic-looking market in London! How can someone see it and say: "Alright let's take it down, the newer one will be much better" ??? :bash:


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## Grygry (Nov 24, 2004)

Wise Fool said:


> hno: Most depressing thread ever  I just can't believe they tore apart that old Gothic-looking market in London! How can someone see it and say: "Alright let's take it down, the newer one will be much better" ??? :bash:


So true! Depressing to see how Great Britain ruined some of its best buildings.
But to add to you pain the british forumers seem to have forgotten to put the CRISTAL PALACE dismanteled under the impulse of Margaret Thatcher in the 80's.

















So far in this list Penn Station in NYC is the destruction that make me jump the most here.


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## PresidentBjork (Apr 29, 2007)

The Crystal Palace burnt down in 1936, and the two adjacent towers were demolished in WW2 to prevent them being used by the Luftwaffe as navigation landmarks.

Maybe you're thinking of Alexandra Palace, built in 1873 only to be burn down 16 days later. However, it was quickly rebuilt and became famous in the 30's when part of it was leased to the BBC who used it to conduct the world's first regular television broadcasts. In 1980 it once again suffered a huge blaze that gutted most leaving it a shell of its former self. Although other sections are still in use. The local council wanted it to be graded a class 1 listed building instead of grade 2.


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## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

^^ Is that near Hampstead Heath by any chance?
Ive noticed a building there which looked similar.


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## devilsadvocate (Apr 7, 2007)

Why didn't they rebuild the WTC? Maybe with doubled height?
Would have been so great and recognizable!
New York has lost its face and will never get it back with FT!

If they didn't want to rebuild it, they should have designed at least double-towers, and not just one, standing alone, who lost his brother...


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## TalB (Jun 8, 2005)

_00_deathscar said:


> Link?


Just go here and use the green thing at the top to scroll to see the list of skyscrapers.


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