# Linde Hopes Over 6 Million Hydrogen Cars by 2020



## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*Linde sees 6 mln hydrogen cars in Europe by 2020 *
By Christiaan Hetzner 

AACHEN, Germany, Oct 10 (Reuters) - The chief executive of Germany's Linde Group sees more than 6 million hydrogen-powered cars on Europe's roads by the end of the next decade as consumers seek to cut pollution and avoid high oil prices. 

"This is a conservative estimate," Wolfgang Reitzle said on Tuesday, addressing automotive engineers at a congress in the German city of Aachen. 

There are currently around 500 hydrogen vehicles worldwide, according to Linde. The head of the world's largest industrial gases group urged politicians to be more active in long-term planning for a greener future with hydrogen, which emits only water vapour when burned. 

"Utopias can become a reality if certain people want it," he said. 

Linde, which has global revenues of some 12 billion euros ($15 billion), inaugurated on Monday a new hydrogen centre, which has a filling station, technology test centre and training centre, near Munich at a cost of 3 million euros, as it aims to position itself for growth in sustainable mobility. 

The group is also working on producing hydrogen from regenerative sources -- or "biohydrogen" -- through biomass conversion, instead of through the conventional process that uses fossil fuels such as natural gas. 

Reitzle said it would be necessary to spend around 3.5 billion euros to build a hydrogen infrastructure of 2,800 filling stations for the European car market, but high oil prices would eventually offset the cost. 

With petroleum consumption in developing countries set to rise in line with economic growth, the trend towards higher oil prices would continue, he said. 

"If every person in China were to enjoy the same standards of life as in America, then some 81 million barrels of oil more would have to be produced every day in the world -- over three times as many as all OPEC countries produce combined," he said. 

He urged German automotive companies to be at the forefront in developing ways to integrate the alternative fuel into future cars. 

"It would be a shame if Germany were to sleep through a trend in hydrogen technology the way we slept through hybrids," he said. 

BMW's head of powertrain development, Klaus Borgmann, reaffirmed the carmaker's belief in the potential for hydrogen to reduce carbon dioxide output. 

"It combines a high energy density and low emissions, and that's why we think it's the trend going forward," the BMW executive told reporters on the sidelines of the congress. 

BMW is set to roll-out a 7 Series luxury saloon equipped with a hydrogen combustion engine in April. Its long-term goal is to eventually offer hydrogen motors in all of its cars.


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## RKS (Sep 14, 2002)

i think ethyl alcohol has more potential as alternative fuel


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## chuangk (Apr 12, 2003)

Is ethyl alcohol an environmnetal friendly fuel?
They shoudl try their best to reduce pollution by using cleaner fuels and more energy efficient engines.


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## RKS (Sep 14, 2002)

yes it is ,furthermore it's easier to handle and the technology and most parts of the infrastructure are available today

and don't forget that this so called "biohydrogen" isn't competitive, in some years maybe but the scientists assure the same of fusion energy since decades


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## Captain Obvious (Sep 13, 2002)

It's not like hydrogen cars are very environmentally friendly. You still have to separate the hydrogen from water, which takes lots of electricity. 

Since the vast majority of electricity is generated by fossil fuels (oil, coal, natural gas, etc.) hyydrogen cars are certainly not a reasonable way to end or even much reduce carbon emissions. It doesn't reduce polution, it just changes the source. 

Now, maybe if the "greens" could get their backwards thinking heads out of their rear ends and actually support nuclear power ... only then could you have a large scale hydrogen fuel system that actually reduces emissions. And even then it's not like it would be cheap.


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## Ted Ward (Apr 16, 2005)

Yea captain obvious i agree with what you said, If we have largescale nuclear programme designed to create hydrogen during times of low energy demand we could have these hydrogen cars and maintain our suplies of oil far longer. I've never really understood why the "greens" dont support nuclear - perhaps there are some ulterior motives afoot. (by the Coal and oil industries)


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## RKS (Sep 14, 2002)

@ captain obvious & ted ward

it isn't so easy

1. we have enough coal for the next 200 years, modern filter technologies make it possible to reduce the emission of powerplants (or larger industrial constructions) close to zero but the price of the production of 1 KWh would increase from 4 ct to 9 ct (in germany)

2. hydrogen can be obtained by algae ("biohydrogen") but the technology is at the beginnings

3. nuclear power plants are a risk what the newest incidents in sweden show, furthermore whereto with atomic waste? i think the best energy sources for the future are fusion and geologic energy sources


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## degnaw (Jul 4, 2006)

Captain Obvious said:


> It's not like hydrogen cars are very environmentally friendly. You still have to separate the hydrogen from water, which takes lots of electricity.


Not to mention that the majority of the world's H2 is produced by separating it from natural gas, which still releases plenty of C02 and uses fossil fuels. The only real environmentally friendly transportation is...


*drumroll*

Electrified Public Transportation


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*ANALYSIS-Fuel cells find less sexy home in forklifts*
4 June 2009

VANCOUVER, British Columbia, June 3 (Reuters) - Ten years ago, the centerpiece of any conference on fuel cells would have been the hydrogen car and its glitzy promise to replace dirty gasoline engines in the not too distant future.

Fast forward to 2009 to an actual fuel cell industry meeting in the West Coast city of Vancouver and sleek hydrogen cars are jostling for space and attention with the humble industrial forklift, and there is little talk of the imminent death of the internal combustion engine.

The "zero-emissions" cars remain a sexy drawing card -- a fleet of 12 arriving in Vancouver from California on Wednesday after traveling 2,700 km (1,700 miles) drew a large crowd. But their earlier massive promises have disappointed and forklifts are where the money looks to be for now for fuel cells.

Three years ago Ballard Power Systems Inc , for many years the poster child of the automotive fuel cell industry, did what many would have thought unthinkable during the hype years of the late 1990s when its stock rocketed to C$200 on the then-promising technology: it decided to get out of the business.

Instead of continuing to sink hundreds of millions of dollars into trying to develop an efficient, economical fuel cell for the car of the future it turned its eye to more pedestrian markets like forklifts and back-up power systems where the technology could find commercial use now.

"The problem that we came to grips with (was) ... what type of investment over what timeline would be required to bring down the cost of that new propulsion system technology to the point that it would be a commercial reality?" said Ballard Chief Executive John Sheridan.

"The reality seemed to develop pretty clearly from all sides that this was still a very long-term proposition," he said.

2015 TARGET TOO OPTIMISTIC?

Fuel cells are devices that convert the chemical energy of a fuel, like hydrogen, into electricity. In hydrogen cars, the electricity then powers an electric motor and water is given off as a by-product.

Supporters thus hail them as being the most environmentally friendly alternative to the tailpipe emissions of the internal combustion engine.

Car makers including General Motors and Toyota Motor Corp told conference delegates in Vancouver this week that they are targeting 2015 as the date for a small, initial roll-out of fuel cell cars to the public.

The automakers themselves acknowledge that major obstacles -- the same one that have been around for years -- continue to dog the hydrogen car industry.

First and foremost is the lack of filling station infrastructure, a massive cost if the hydrogen car economy is to succeed but a chicken-and-egg problem for the industry.

"Cars will arrive in relatively small batches but the stations need to be there or the vehicles will stop coming," said Michael McGowan, head of hydrogen solutions at Linde Gas North America and Chairman of the U.S. National Hydrogen Association.

Other troubling questions include where the hydrogen fuel will come from, where it will be stored and how it will be distributed. The high cost of fuel cells is another bugbear.

Ballard's Sheridan believes the 2015 target could well be optimistic, given the financial woes of recession-battered car makers in Detroit and elsewhere.

ENTER THE FORKLIFT

Instead, Ballard is now selling fuel cells to warehouse operations for use in forklifts.

Early orders are small but the Vancouver-based company believes these will ramp up as the materials handling industry sees the benefits of fuel cells over the incumbent lead-acid battery technology.

Fuel cell-powered forklifts can be refueled in minutes, according to John Tak, President and Chief Executive of the Canadian Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Association, unlike the hours it takes to recharge a battery.

Battery packs need to be stored somewhere taking up valuable space on the warehouse floor. Fuel cells also operate for longer and don't present the same disposal problems as a toxic battery at the end of its life.

Ballard's Sheridan says there are many in his company who were sorry to give up the automotive fuel cell dream.

"I would love to see the technology (work). The technology could do a lot at a critical time for the environment, but in terms of the commercial reality we just don't see it," he said.

($1=$1.11 Canadian)


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

degnaw said:


> Not to mention that the majority of the world's H2 is produced by separating it from natural gas, which still releases plenty of C02 and uses fossil fuels. The only real environmentally friendly transportation is...
> 
> 
> *drumroll*
> ...


You can have third generation ethanol, electric batteries from wind farms, biomass and nuclear power plants and so on.

PUBLIC transportation is against the idea of individual freedom of movement, which is the need the car matches like no other concept. Therefore, we need greener and more efficient cars, not a social engineering program to make people give way their freedom to travel (provided they have $$) where, with whom, at whatever time, to anywhere they want without relying in any public service subject to politics, strikes and so on.


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## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

IMO hydrogen cars are pretty dead for a few decades. Everything will concentrate on electrcal cars with batteries.


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