# Pick up Top 3 cities in the German speaking world



## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

micro: I also would say that Köln, Zürich, Wien, Berlin and Frankfurt are more important than Hamburg, but its metro is about 2.5 mio and thus bigger than the ones of München and Wien. They and Zurich are about 1.7-2 mio. If then Stuttgart would be bigger with 2.7 mio... The city is the second in the country, but because it is a very big area and even a Bundesland itself like Berlin or the smaller Bremen. But size doesn't matter, isn't it? - Bruxelles and Geneva are after Paris maybe the most important cities worldwide in the French speaking world and not even that big... (the city propers not even 200k!)


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## DrJekyll (Sep 23, 2004)

Vienna 
Zurich 
Munich


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## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

Hamburg

Düsseldorf

Frankfurt


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## micro (Mar 13, 2005)

Kuesel said:


> micro: I also would say that Köln, Zürich, Wien, Berlin and Frankfurt are more important than Hamburg, but its metro is about 2.5 mio and thus bigger than the ones of München and Wien. They and Zurich are about 1.7-2 mio. If then Stuttgart would be bigger with 2.7 mio... The city is the second in the country, but because it is a very big area and even a Bundesland itself like Berlin or the smaller Bremen. But size doesn't matter, isn't it? - Bruxelles and Geneva are after Paris maybe the most important cities worldwide in the French speaking world and not even that big... (the city propers not even 200k!)


The sizes of metro areas seem to vary according to the sources you consult. I have a source saying that the metro areas of Hamburg, Hanover, Mannheim/Ludwigshafen, Stuttgart, and Munich are all about 2.5 mio each. I think Düsseldorf together with Rhein/Ruhr is more important than Cologne.

Interesting how Zurich has doubled in size in just a few days... Last week you were talking about 1.09 in the metro area :bash:


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

Wrong: 1.09 mio is the national! Agglomeration for central commuter plannings, the metro is 1.7 mio (to compare with other European cities) and the Greater Zurich Area (GZA) 3 mio (is more like American stats) - all by Bundesamt für Statistik (BfS). The problem is the same as in French statistics where they have agglomerations and aires urbaines. You have to take care what you are taking for international comparisment.

About the German cities you are right, they are all about 2.5 mio, some a bit bigger, other smaller. Hannover is smaller though and it depends if Düsseldorf is included in Essen metro (6mio) or Rhein-Ruhr (12mio together with Bonn, Köln, Wuppertal). Statistics are always tricky, you can see that in the "biggest Euro Metros" discussion


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## micro (Mar 13, 2005)

Kuesel said:


> and the Greater Zurich Area (GZA) 3 mio


And tomorrow you'll say it's 4 million :lol:
Why doesn't Zurich have a subway system then?


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

Come on, I don't need to be offended by you, I studied these matters and was working with the BfS, I know where the data come from and what they mean - I let you believe what you want... case closed!

And about the subway: there is a special section where they discuss it here - "subways and urban transport". It's a long story why it doesn't have a metro. It was planned and is in discussion again, but there are much bigger cities in the world without a metro.


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

Kuesel said:


> Come on, I don't need to be offended by you, I studied these matters and was working with the BfS, I know where the data come from and what they mean - I let you believe what you want... case closed!
> 
> And about the subway: there is a special section where they discuss it here - "subways and urban transport". It's a long story why it doesn't have a metro. It was planned and is in discussion again, but there are much bigger cities in the world without a metro.


I worked at Statistische Bundesamt in Wiesbaden. 3 million isn't too much. It is quite, what I can remember...


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

Thanks  

Here a link with facts and numbers for GZA (but as I said: I consider that more an "American Definition" - if you want to compare it in a "European Way" then it's about 1.8 mio): http://www.greaterzuricharea.ch/content/02/02_01_01de.asp


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## micro (Mar 13, 2005)

Kuesel said:


> I studied these matters and was working with the BfS, I know where the data come from and what they mean


You seem not very assured about your studies since you're coming up with new figures every day. Must have been a hard struggle to dig them up somewhere.

Maybe you would like to let it be now, I'm a little tired of this discussion, you cannot convince me anyways.


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

Well, if you consider Frankfurt/Oder and other cities as far away from Berlin as Berlin metro area with 4.4 million inhabitants, surely almost intire Switzerland could be Zurich metro area...


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## Heather (Dec 15, 2004)

Enough of this Zurich size debate, large or not, it's on my list.

Berlin
Vienna
Zurich.

I can't believe those of you who failed to include Berlin. It's not that beautiful a city, true, but it's an absolute gem in so many ways.


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## ReddAlert (Nov 4, 2004)

Hamburg
Vienna
Milwaukee


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## Menino de Sampa (Sep 21, 2003)

Hamburg
Berlin
Wien


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## DonQui (Jan 10, 2005)

Vienna
Frankfurt
Munich

Berlin does not even come close.


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## Zaqattaq (Nov 17, 2004)

Berlin, Stuttgart, Innsbruck

I've been all over DE and OST but never been to CH so I am not sure


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## Zaqattaq (Nov 17, 2004)

DonQui said:


> Vienna
> Frankfurt
> Munich
> 
> Berlin does not even come close.


Have you ever been to Vienna or Berlin 

Berlin is life, Vienna is death


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## Butcher (Dec 13, 2004)

Frankfurt, vienna, Berlin.


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

zaqattaq said:


> Berlin is life, Vienna is death


Aren't you a bit too cruel??? :runaway:


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## Zaqattaq (Nov 17, 2004)

No Wien is seriously the most boring city I have ever been to, yet to live and work there I think would be nice.


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

zaqattaq said:


> No Wien is seriously the most boring city I have ever been to, yet to live and work there I think would be nice.


Okay, that sounds way friendlier!!!  :cheers:


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## micro (Mar 13, 2005)

zaqattaq said:


> No Wien is seriously the most boring city I have ever been to, yet to live and work there I think would be nice.


Really? I like Vienna and enjoyed the grand buildings when I was there.


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## Zaqattaq (Nov 17, 2004)

That's the whole thing, all the grand buildings everything looked the same.


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## eduardo89 (Aug 9, 2005)

berlin, munich and hamburg....dusseldorf and cologne are great too tho


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## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

zaqattaq said:


> No Wien is seriously the most boring city I have ever been to, yet to live and work there I think would be nice.



You just went to bets boring places. You can have a wonderful time in Wien.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

micro said:


> And I don't get it why many people voted for Hamburg. It's the Germany's 2nd biggest city (on paper) but the metro area is relatively small.
> 
> Munich, Berlin and Vienna are much grander and more interesting and Frankfurt is more significant.


I voted for Hamburg over Frankfurt or Munich because I prefer the city. Frankfurt is a very average town in world standards. It's only two claims to fame are one of Europe's best skylines - and even then it's very run of the mill at international level, and it's a business town.

Other than that, it's a city that turns it's back on it's river, it has very little architecture of note, it has substandard shopping, virtually nothing of interest for international visitors and is quite frankly, rather boring.

Munich is of more interest at a tourist level, but is far too conservative for me to consider living there. Outside the Oktoberfest, there really isn't much to see and do, and even it's historical architecture makes me yawn. That said, it has a great new stadium, something Frankfurt lacks.

But Hamburg is a really nice city overall. Sure, it could do a lot more to it's riverfront (and I don't think much of Hafencity, which is sadly building a grand scheme of boring boxes) but it has the geographical highlights of the rivers, lakes and canals, along with some interesting architecture.

Still, Berlin is my favourite, and is the best German city in my personal opinion. Vienna only comes in there because it has such a large and impressive historical side, otherwise I find it rather dull like Munich. Zurich is a beautiful place on the other hand, with stunning scenary and a very lively bohemien scene.


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

I agree with you - Frankfurt is one of the most overrated cities in Europe, only because it's a financal center (but also London, Paris and Zurich are) and has an impressive american-modelled skyline. München is a very beautiful city, but I wouldn't live there - the reasons you named. 

The only German cities that ever really impressed me were Hamburg and Berlin. Köln disappointed me really - a bigger Basel with an even colder athmosphere


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## christoph (Jul 4, 2005)

That'll make it three: Frankfurt is a dull place! Hamburg, Cologne and Berlin are way more exciting in terms of leisure facilities than "Mainhattan".


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

I agree with Cologne and maybe Hamburg. But Berlin - come on, to live???!!! Where's the city's quality of life?


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## Storeman (Jun 24, 2005)

who is talking about quality of life? If you consider that you have to vote for Zürich, Bern (exept now with all that wather running threw the place ) and maybe Basel, Munich or Düsseldorf.


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

Basel doesn't have a very good quality of life and Bern is... dull nowadays (apart from the floodings). Highest I would say are Vienna, Zurich, Frankfurt and München. To be honest I am glad to live in the best oft the four :lol: Otherwise Hamburg has also a high life quality AND is a great place.


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## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

Kuesel said:


> Vienna, Zurich, Frankfurt and München. To be honest I am glad to live in the best oft the four :lol:


Didn't know you lived in Frankfurt, I thought you lived in Zürich... :tongue: :tongue: :tongue: :baeh3: :baeh3: :wink2:


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

:rofl:
Frankfurt is cool especially in architecture, but I don't like it that much in general. Vienna is beautiful, but a bit dull and Munich is a great place to visit but even more conservative 

What I like here is the multicultural life, the high numbers of street parties, dense cultural life (I am not hanging out in clubs, so I can't judge that) and especially the beautiful setting with forest hills and lakes....  

Good infrastructure and public transport they have all anyway


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## Intoxication (Jul 24, 2005)

1. Frankfurt
2. Hamburg
3. Berlin


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## erbse (Nov 8, 2006)

For me:

1) Berlin
2) Vienna
3) Stralsund :lovethem:


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

Talk about reviving a thread from the graveyard. This had not been posted in for almost 9 years. 

It's also a bit City vs. city.


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