# Dongguan's gigantic "South China Mall" runs into financial trouble



## tablemtn (May 2, 2006)

Mall of Misfortune



> ...the South China Mall, which opened with great fanfare in 2005, is not just the world’s largest. With fewer than a dozen stores scattered through a space designed to house 1,500, it is also the world’s emptiest – a dusty, decrepit complex of buildings marked by peeling paint, dead light bulbs, and dismembered mannequins...


What lessons can be learned from the failure of this mall? Should the mall have been located in Guangzhou, rather than the smaller Dongguan?


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## Huhu (Jun 5, 2004)

It seems like it was designed to suck in regional car traffic like a giant vacuum cleaner; so people in Guangzhou were supposed to be willing to drive there for the "mall experience."

IMO it's a good thing that it hasn't happened, but it might yet. If China decides to develop along the lines of North American outlets and malls in the suburbs, the world won't be able to sustain it.


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## lokinyc (Sep 17, 2002)

Wow, i had no idea what a failure this place was.


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## redstone (Nov 15, 2003)

What's the main cause of the failure?


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## urbanfan89 (May 30, 2007)

Good. I hope all American-style mega malls in China go broke.


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## oliver999 (Aug 4, 2006)

urbanfan89 said:


> Good. I hope all American-style mega malls in China go broke.


lol, why? the service is nice.


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## shadyunltd (May 1, 2006)

urbanfan89 said:


> Good. I hope all American-style mega malls in China go broke.


Seriously, coming from a Canadian.... Edmonton's mall was the biggest in the world, and don't forget hideous places like Square One in Mississauga...


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

I've seen a few ads of this place now and then but never had any urge to go. They're not an outlet mall I don't think, but probably a place for sourcing? Perhaps the lack of awareness is a reason for its failure.


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## YelloPerilo (Oct 17, 2003)

I don't like shopping malls anyway ... not a big loss.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

hkskyline said:


> I've seen a few ads of this place now and then but never had any urge to go. They're not an outlet mall I don't think, but probably a place for sourcing? Perhaps the lack of awareness is a reason for its failure.


I only heard about this mall only here on SSC. But again, why would we bother to come to this mall when our city is already a major shopping mecca in Asia.

And as for outlets, we can just go to Citygate


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

WANCH said:


> I only heard about this mall only here on SSC. But again, why would we bother to come to this mall when our city is already a major shopping mecca in Asia.
> 
> And as for outlets, we can just go to Citygate


Sorry, that logic doesn't flow in the general Hong Kong population, as thousands of Hong Kongers flood across the border to Shenzhen to shop, especially for knock-offs. There is a huge mall right across the Lowu border crossing full of these kinds of things, and later people started going to Dongmen a few subway stops away. 

At the other extreme, some people living in the northern New Territories actually cross the border to buy groceries in Shenzhen as their prices are a bit lower, while customs is starting to crack down on people bringing meat across the border due to safety and health concerns.

Sourcing is a huge business as many multinationals (including Walmart and their likes) buy from factories in the Pearl River Delta. They would procure their inventory in Guangdong province.

I've seen ads of this mall on East Rail trains before.


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## The Cebuano Exultor (Aug 1, 2005)

*South China Mall's Demise Spells Doom for DubaiLand*

Tsk...tsk. :no:

I thought this mall would have done fine. I mean, it won't be an "uber-popular" shopping and entertainment destination but a normally-crowded wholly-integrated attraction, nonetheless.

Too bad all things went haywire for this mall. 

*To put things into perspective, if something like this can happen to a not-so-huge speculative-investment-project in the wealthiest region of the world's fastest growing major economy then this might spell doom for even bigger projects that are being undertaken in wealthy but small and overstretched economies like Dubai (i.e., DubaiLand).*


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

^^ From the article:



> ...People in real estate say that retail is the most difficult kind of property to develop. Even in highly affluent markets like the UAE, it can be risky if too many malls open up at once. “You hear simultaneously everyone launching the project that’s supposed to be the regional draw,” says Groves, the Hong Kong consultant, who has also worked on projects in the Emirates. With malls “so large they beggar belief” sprouting up all over the Middle East, Groves says, “one or more of the projects could have trouble.”
> 
> The situation is even more complicated in China, where per capita income is about a fifteenth of the UAE’s....


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## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

The South China Mall the world's most boring mall because only a few stores are housed in it and because of its financial problems. I'm not demolishing it though. It is the shopping mall version of Montreal's Mirabel Airport. Any other reasons why the South China Mall is a white elephant?

Also, how many stores (specifically) are in this mall?


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## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

Great. According to Wikipedia, the South China Mall is now scheduled to close in July of 2008 because of its vacantness. The mall is a white elephant because it has leasable space for over 1,500 stores. Yet just less than 10 stores occupy its space. Another primary reason is that it is located in the suburbs of Dongguan, which means that it is only practical to travel there using a car. The mall's closure will raise the question of what to do with it.


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## Scion (Apr 26, 2008)

^^ a storage warehouse maybe?

They'll probably just let the mall sit there empty. Give it 10-20 years, or when the area surrounding the mall becomes highly urbanised and populated, then those retail space will become hot property.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

As a opponent of uber-malls I think thats great news. Those monster malls are nothing one should wine after. Tere exist far nicer ways to shop, ways that do not force entire regions into the enslavement of the car and suburbanisation.


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## Basincreek (Mar 10, 2008)

Slartibartfas said:


> As a opponent of uber-malls I think thats great news. Those monster malls are nothing one should wine after. Tere exist far nicer ways to shop, ways that do not force entire regions into the enslavement of the car and suburbanisation.


What is and isn't a nicer way to shop is all a matter of opinion.


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## zaphod (Dec 8, 2005)

> They'll probably just let the mall sit there empty. Give it 10-20 years, or when the area surrounding the mall becomes highly urbanised and populated, then those retail space will become hot property.


It will be dilapidated beyond repair if allowed to sit that long without upkeep. It'll probably sit and rot and become a really awesome modern-day ruins

Maybe it could be used a filming location for Hong Kong movie industry?


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## Scion (Apr 26, 2008)

^^ you can always refurbish the place when it becomes hot property


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Basincreek said:


> What is and isn't a nicer way to shop is all a matter of opinion.


Of course it is, if the mall is near (or better: in)the center of a huge city and well connected. But periphery malls are apart from being a subject of shopping preferences also a matter of failed urban planning, as its a core ingredient for suburbanisation. Which in itself is not a preference but an energy wasting way of urban planning (or a lack of it). If we want to maximize wealth on earth we will not be able to uphold such wasteful ways of living.


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## Basincreek (Mar 10, 2008)

^^ Not everyone is interested in maximizing the wealth of the earth, most are only concerned with maximizing their own wealth. One has to ensure their own existence before they can start being altruistic.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Basincreek said:


> ^^ Not everyone is interested in maximizing the wealth of the earth, most are only concerned with maximizing their own wealth. One has to ensure their own existence before they can start being altruistic.


Even if its only about the own wealth its not recommendable. As you can get wealthier if you are more efficient. If you are wasteful you are giving up parts of your wealth without any benefit, other than the luxury of being wasteful. (which I do not think of as luxury but rather stupidity)

For a state its even more important. Good urban design can improve the wealth of its inhabitants just by increasing efficiency. 


Even the outermost egoist would be not very clever if he prefers to be wasteful instead of being wealthier. Clever city planning is a small one time investment, but brings an efficiency advantage over a very long time and hence can grant its inhabitants a better life, while this advantage does not demand much in exchange.


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## particlez (May 5, 2008)

if only all those gigantic exurban malls, power centers, and factory outlets over here could languish...


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## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

I don't think we should extended a line of the Guangzhou Metro to this mall. We're also not building a transit system for Dongguan to try to prevent this mall from falling into disrepair.


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## ChinaboyUSA (May 10, 2005)

it is a temporary problem i think that people tend to make things somewhat exaggerated.


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## yin_yang (May 29, 2006)

Basincreek said:


> ^^ Not everyone is interested in maximizing the wealth of the earth, most are only concerned with maximizing their own wealth. One has to ensure their own existence before they can start being altruistic.


One _has_ to ensure their own existence? Boy, I would think a a more noble way to live would be to pay it forward, not backward. Sorry, but that type of attitude is disguisting to me.


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## PacificMetropolis (May 6, 2007)

This was place was just WAY ahead of it's time. At present, fewer than 10 per cent of China’s population of 1.3 billion have enough discretionary income to count as “middle-class”.


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## Basincreek (Mar 10, 2008)

yin_yang said:


> One _has_ to ensure their own existence? Boy, I would think a a more noble way to live would be to pay it forward, not backward. Sorry, but that type of attitude is disguisting to me.


Well, I'll head down to the low income housing complex and ask the residents why they didn't donate a new wing to the modern art museum. When they say they couldn't afford it I will tell them that yin_yang thinks their attitudes are disgusting.

Now_ I do_ contribute to charities because I'm in a position to be able to. I ensured my own existence and then was able to be altruistic. Those people you think have disgusting attitudes are still struggling to just _survive_. It's hard to be a philanthropist when you don't even know how you're gonna pay for your next meal.


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## Scion (Apr 26, 2008)

PacificMetropolis said:


> This was place was just WAY ahead of it's time. At present, fewer than 10 per cent of China’s population of 1.3 billion have enough discretionary income to count as “middle-class”.


The ratio of middle class to the whole population *in Guangdong Province* is higher than 10%.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Basincreek said:


> Well, I'll head down to the low income housing complex and ask the residents why they didn't donate a new wing to the modern art museum. When they say they couldn't afford it I will tell them that yin_yang thinks their attitudes are disgusting.
> 
> Now_ I do_ contribute to charities because I'm in a position to be able to. I ensured my own existence and then was able to be altruistic. Those people you think have disgusting attitudes are still struggling to just _survive_. It's hard to be a philanthropist when you don't even know how you're gonna pay for your next meal.


You have not addressed my response so far.

The point is that efficiency has little to do with "being altruistic". Its quite the opposite. If you live in a better planned community you get better quality of life at lower costs (shorter distances etc). The whole thing does not cost anyone anything except perhaps that you need a smarter planning concept at the beginning, but thats the cheapest problem one could have. 

So we are talking about those not extremely wealthy people. I guess they will be happy that bad planning or simple copying of American suburbia concepts take away potential quality of life from them. 

Efficiency is not just something beneficial for the rest of the planet, its in first line a benefit for everyone for him or herself.


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## Basincreek (Mar 10, 2008)

Slartibartfas said:


> You have not addressed my response so far.
> 
> The point is that efficiency has little to do with "being altruistic". Its quite the opposite. If you live in a better planned community you get better quality of life at lower costs (shorter distances etc). The whole thing does not cost anyone anything except perhaps that you need a smarter planning concept at the beginning, but thats the cheapest problem one could have.
> 
> ...


We are talking about two fundamentally different things. You are talking about cities and towns that have the luxury of deciding what type of development will go into their community and can demand efficient design.

I'm talking about communities that are desperate for anything, and I mean anything, to be built in them before the community dies and becomes a ghost town. In that case a developer comes into town and proposes something and the community is faced with two choices 1) let the developer build whatever they want or 2) demand a development that is efficient and then watch the developer just stop the project and move onto the next town with the town getting nothing.

This happened to the town I live in now. Twenty five years ago a developer wanted to build a complex on some land west of town with supermarkets, banks and a drug store, stuff the town really needed. The Town made a demand that the developer redesign the streets and change the style of buildings in the complex and the developer just stopped everything, sold off the property in an auction and went and built that complex in a town some 55 kilometers away. Twenty five years later that property in our town is still empty and we still don't have a supermarket, bank or drug store. We have to drive 20 minutes to another town to get to those kinds of stores.


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## centralcali19 (Jan 6, 2007)

probably the investors who built this mall were too optimistic. they thought a large population was there to make profit, but the lifestyle of the Chinese is different than Americans, who travel quite a distance to go shopping..


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Basincreek said:


> We are talking about two fundamentally different things. You are talking about cities and towns that have the luxury of deciding what type of development will go into their community and can demand efficient design.
> 
> I'm talking about communities that are desperate for anything, and I mean anything, to be built in them before the community dies and becomes a ghost town. In that case a developer comes into town and proposes something and the community is faced with two choices 1) let the developer build whatever they want or 2) demand a development that is efficient and then watch the developer just stop the project and move onto the next town with the town getting nothing.


Thats in fact a tragic mechanism, even though I can see your argument.
You could prevent it by making the worst kind of bad city planning, by regional or even national laws.

Other than that, there remains the question if bad developments grant a higher benefit than no development. As said as it is, sometimes the former will be better from the limited perspective of a municipal government.

But if that happens on large scale, this will come and haunt China one day. When you live in terribly planned communities. City design is something that can be changed only at very low speed. Americans are eperiencing what that means currently with their huge suburbanisation that went often hand in hand with terrible city design.


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## Skyline_FFM (May 25, 2008)

I would like to see some high-res pics of it!!!


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## Scion (Apr 26, 2008)

Not very high res, but here u go


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## Energy2003 (Jun 13, 2007)

here the builders, try to rent about 30-60% of the space BEFORE they start building.

it looks that the system "we build it - than we rent it" doesn´t work even in such a populated country like this


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## Skyline_FFM (May 25, 2008)

What a pitty! It looks very good!!!!


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## WA (Jan 31, 2008)

Scion said:


> Not very high res, but here u go


Thats very depressing


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## VisualEye (Jul 18, 2008)

I suggest that this building should be use for other proposes such as set up as an University campus or covent some large stores into sport halls. Could be set up as offices. Maybe factory or high-tech / science park like Silicon Valley? Or maybe covert the failed shopping centre into the world's largest cinema multiplex with over 50+ movies theatres?! 

VisualEye


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