# Retail Patterns in Your City



## Pavlov's Dog (Aug 2, 2007)

In Oslo the suburban, car-based centers are taking market share from city center retail. Downtown remains vibrant but only in a very narrowly defined area. Leasing-agents desire for secure tenants and chains desires to be everywhere they can be have left central Oslo largely devoid of anything not found in the suburbs. I myself am guilty of not shopping in the central city anymore. Transit isn't convenient enough outside of normal commuting times and if I know I'm going to buy several things I don't want to be lugging a number of shopping bags on the train or bus.


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## Club_Dru (Jul 11, 2007)

Holland isn't familiar with huge shopping centres or huge Malls on perifery locations. In greater cities like Amsterdam, Rotterdam and Den Haag there is maby one huge mall outsidethe city-centre. There are mid-sized shopping centres all over the city. But most of the retail-business are located in the citycentre. It's also a national govermentpolicy to don't build huge malls on the edge of the city, to protect the historical centres in whole the Netherlands.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

With today's much larger cities geographically, the question is whether downtown retail can survive without enough city centre residents as the suburbanities can just visit their local mall to get their everyday needs. The question actually parallels the extent of urbanization and population growth / shifts in your city.


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## Beware (Oct 30, 2007)

^^ *THIS is, also, true!*


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## crawford (Dec 9, 2003)

Mexico follows the American model, where the bulk of shopping nowadays is in peripheral auto-oriented shopping centers.

This is not to say that Mexico's downtowns don't still have plenty of shopping, but the bulk of retail, especially upscale retail, is in the periphery.

Examples: 

While Mexico City's retail core remains vibrant, it is downmarket and touristy. The upscale shopping is in wealthy neighborhoods to the west, especially in Polanco and Santa Fe.

In Guadalajara, similar patterns emerge, with the downtown pedestrian streets quite lively and filled with shops for the working class, but the big department stores, American chains and upscale retail is to the west, especially at the Plaza Gallerias and Plaza del Sol


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

crawford said:


> Mexico follows the American model, where the bulk of shopping nowadays is in peripheral auto-oriented shopping centers.
> 
> This is not to say that Mexico's downtowns don't still have plenty of shopping, but the bulk of retail, especially upscale retail, is in the periphery.
> 
> ...


It's strange how different places develop in different ways. In Europe it's usually the total opposite to the pattern you describe, city centres are where the upmarket department stores and boutiques are located while peripheral retail parks are for downmarket, 'pile it high, sell it cheap' discount warehouses and cheap supermarkets.


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## spongeg (May 1, 2006)

Jonesy55 said:


> It's strange how different places develop in different ways. In Europe it's usually the total opposite to the pattern you describe, city centres are where the upmarket department stores and boutiques are located while peripheral retail parks are for downmarket, 'pile it high, sell it cheap' discount warehouses and cheap supermarkets.


probably safety issue - less chance of being mugged in a safe suburban mall than downtown on the streets

like in south africa - they have downtown but a lot closed down due to crime and retreated to the safe suburbs - but things are starting to come back into the downtowns as crime is not as bad as it had gotten

Vancouver has a pretty vibrant downtown - probably due to the fact that it has a large residential population to help support it and people loathe having to go to the suburbs to shop - a lot of "big box" retailers have opened downtown stores - even costco


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

^^ could be true. I noticed the same thing in Istanbul which had quite limited central shopping. It did have this neighbourhood out in the suburbs with two or three malls close to each other. Weird thing though, you needed to pass through a security net to get into the mall. Empty pockets, metal detectors etc, it was like getting onto an airplane, though you were just entering a mall.


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## crawford (Dec 9, 2003)

In Mexico, generally the middle and upper classes have a something of a bias against transit, so they favor auto-oriented suburban shopping malls. For example, Centro Santa Fe, easily the biggest and fanciest Mexico City mall, is located far from the nearest Metro station and major population centers. 

I don't think the issue is safety so much than it is not wanting to mix with "lower classes". Mexico City has safety issues, but Guadalajara is pretty safe. Safety might play a role, though, since most larger or upscale stores have armed guards with automatic weapons stationed near the entrances. Sometimes the guards look like teenagers, which makes me a bit apprehensive regarding whether or not they've received proper training.

The people in these Mexican malls are overwhelmingly "European" looking, as if one were in Madrid or something, while the downtown shopping districts are overwhelmingly "Indian".


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## Triplenet (Feb 4, 2008)

In the future people are going to want to live by a more European model of shopping, living, and working in a community. The days of power centers being built are numbered. Development trends in North America favor mixed use development because people want things to be close to them as opposed to driving miles for a gallon of milk. In urban areas, the idea of the high street is really influencing the United States.

Marcus
www.triplenetspace.com


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## vogriphach (Dec 24, 2006)

Manila hardly has any notable "shopping streets" to speak of. There were a few decades ago and there are still a few now like in Chinatown. However, most of the retail outlets, whether small boutiques or big name department stores, are located inside huge malls. There are dozens of them in the metropolitan area, which are very popular with the general public. They've become like one-stop centers, complete with shopping and dining amenities. Most also have playgrounds, spas, dental and medical clinics, hair salons and repair shops. 

One reason why street shopping didn't prevail in this city is because of the heat! Most cities that fall within the tropics are like that. One could argue that Singapore has Orchard Road but even that is just one whole strip with a lot of malls.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Dutch cities do not have suburban malls, like those in the United States. Some larger hardware and home furnishing stores are located near the suburban area's, but that more because the downtown roads cannot handle loads of traffic to those location. (most infamous are the IKEA home furnishing chain traffic jams). 

There are some outlet centers at some places, but those are generally not in every city. Dutch people usually go out on saturday to the historic city center for shopping. Though most city centers have all the same store chains, so it doesn't matter that much which city you choose to shop. 

Parking space is a problem in much of these cities though, the historic city centers and adjacent areas are not designed for todays automobile ownership, sometimes it's even hard for residents to find a parking spot, not to mention shoppers from suburban and surrounding area's. Parking garages can be expensive, especially in the larger cities. My city of 116.000 charges 3 dollars an hour for a parking garage, though in Amsterdam, that can be as high as 7 - 8 dollars an hour.


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## woutero (Jan 14, 2008)

In the Netherlands it used to be nationall policy to not allow suburban shopping malls (with the exception of hardware and furniture stores). Even though the national government has nothing to do with handing out building permits, local governments do not want to be out of compliance with the central government's policy (because that's where most of their money comes from).

Nowadays the central government leaves it up to the regional governments (provinces), but still, hardly any real suburban malls exist. Suburbs do have shopping centers, but they are not freeway oriented malls, but neighborhood centers for local residents.

As a consequence, most people still go to the grocery store daily, or every other day. Often by foot or by bicycle. Grocery stores are generally smaller in scale than in other countries, and historic centers are still the places to go for your shopping. For all the big chain stores, but also for the upmarket specialty stores (usually in side streets of the main retail streets).

A factor that should be considered in this is how local governments get their tax revenues. In many countries, the local government budget is highly dependent on local property taxes and/or sales taxes. This means that it is attractive to build big shopping malls that attract people from out of town. In NL most of the local government budget is handed down from the central government. Real estate tax is a small part of their income, and they don't get anything of the sales tax. So competition between jurisdictions is not as fierce as in other places.

Just some thoughts.


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