# Cities with the Widest Rich-&-Poor's Gap



## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

Check out the slums in Mumbai, and then there is the skyscraper for one rich family being built.


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## Cartel (Aug 26, 2005)

Um Cairo.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

elfreako said:


> Dubai, anyone?


Trust me, the worst in Dubai doesn't look that bad at all compared to plenty in the neighborhood.


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## ale26 (Sep 9, 2005)

Toronto, Canada does pretty well with not having a big gap between rich and poor...even though there is soooo much money in Toronto..there is a lot of middle class people.


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## _00_deathscar (Mar 16, 2005)

Hong Kong is another 'contender', if that term may be used.


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## DG (Sep 2, 2005)

i would say Mumbai is on the top in this category.


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## GabrielFR (Aug 12, 2007)

Rio de Janeiro is well know for it's gap size between poor and rich. In fact all Brazil could be considered a big gap between poor and rich.

Also neighbour countries like Venezuela, Colombia, Bolivia can also fit this list.


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## fooddude (Feb 2, 2007)

san francisco...since its the biggest homeless pop in the us


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## bay_area (Dec 31, 2002)

fooddude said:


> san francisco...since its the biggest homeless pop in the us


This is not true. Los Angeles has the most homeless in the US.

www.unitedwayla.org/getinformed/rr/research/basic/Documents/2005HomelessCities.pdf


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## icracked (Feb 15, 2007)

fooddude said:


> san francisco...since its the biggest homeless pop in the us


So true, this is someone who lives in San Francisco. Check out downtown's tenderloin district, homeless on every block. Even areas on Market Street (State Library-U.N. building is flooded with homeless and its right in the city's center). Or go down to the Muni stations, you'll see at least a dozen of people playing musical instruments for money. San Francisco definitely tops the list in the U.S.


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## forrestcat (Apr 21, 2006)

Squatters in KL









After 2000, the City Hall actively demolished major squatter areas, while the residents were offered low cost flats at a subsidised price.


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## Paddington (Mar 30, 2006)

The biggest rich-poor gap in the U.S. is probably in Miami. There is very little middle class left in Miami.


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## will.exe (Aug 9, 2006)

Pyongyang.


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## LMCA1990 (Jun 18, 2005)

koolkid said:


> ROYU said:
> 
> 
> > I think Bogota and Mumbai can be in this list.
> ...


Bogota is one of the cities in Latin America with the smallest gap. It's Human Development Index (HDI) is comparable to that of an industrialized country (0.900) and only 16% of "Bogotanos" are poor (the UK is 17%).

Rio definately has a huge gap.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

_00_deathscar said:


> Hong Kong is another 'contender', if that term may be used.


I don't agree. The quality of life in HK is one of the highest in the world. Yes the city may have its gritty structures but life within the lower class has improved compared to pre-1997 era. One difference though is those living in the lower class has less *space*.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

WANCH said:


> I don't agree. The quality of life in HK is one of the highest in the world. Yes the city may have its gritty structures but life within the lower class has improved compared to pre-1997 era. One difference though is those living in the lower class has less *space*.


Actually, a recent study came out highlighting how the rich haven't benefited much from the recent economic boom. The income gap is very big in Hong Kong, although not as extreme as in developing cities such as Mumbai.


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## Yörch1 (Oct 31, 2006)

Alejandro_MEX said:


> Some of the Strongest Exponents:
> 
> *Mexico City*​This could be the best example. It's located in the region with the worst distribution of wealth in the world: Latin America. Some of the problems caused for that gap is the drugs traffic, making easy money for poors. The reason I chose this at first is because Mexico has a big migration problem to the US caused by poverty, and Mexico City has the richest human on earth: Carlos Slim, who has overtaken Bill Gates during the past months as the world richest person according to Fortune.
> 
> ...


It'd be interesting why you did chose Mexico City. There are some other countries in Latin America with a worse wealth distribution. And Mexico City has definitely one of the lowest levels of unequality within the country.

By the way, that picture of a slum is clearly not in Mexico City. I've seen it thousands of times.

This is how a slum in Mexico City looks like:


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Yoryi said:


> It'd be interesting why you did chose Mexico City. There are some other countries in Latin America with a worse wealth distribution. And Mexico City has definitely one of the lowest levels of unequality within the country.
> 
> By the way, that picture of a slum is clearly not in Mexico City. I've seen it thousands of times.
> 
> This is how a slum in Mexico City looks like:


Didn't Mexico City had a public housing program especially during the mid 20th century. The area around *The Plaza of The Three Cultures* is surrounded by public housing.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

hkskyline said:


> Actually, a recent study came out highlighting how the rich haven't benefited much from the recent economic boom. The income gap is very big in Hong Kong, although not as extreme as in developing cities such as Mumbai.


The thing is, most of the lower class in HK live in better conditions compared to most devloping countries. The only worst case was *Kowloon Walled City* and some areas within Sham Shui Po.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

Is public housing's existence an indication of an income gap? Perhaps in North America and Europe, but for Hong Kong, public housing is popular not just among the lower classes, but for the working middle class as well.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

WANCH said:


> The thing is, most of the lower class in HK live in better conditions compared to most devloping countries. The only worst case was *Kowloon Walled City* and some areas within Sham Shui Po.


A lot of the tenements in Sham Shui Po are badly maintained and in dire need of repair. Chunks of concrete often fall onto the streets below, injuring passers-by. I don't think they're much better than some of the poor cities in the developing world.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

hkskyline said:


> Is public housing's existence an indication of an income gap? Perhaps in North America and Europe, but for Hong Kong, public housing is popular not just among the lower classes, but for the working middle class as well.


Conditions within HK's public housing has improved especially the modern ones. Not just public housing but also subsidized flats.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

WANCH said:


> Conditions within HK's public housing has improved especially the modern ones. Not just public housing but also subsidized flats.


You're likely confusing the really low-income public housing with the subsidized ones for the middle class. The low-end ones haven't improved. The middle-class ones have, since they're competing against private housing. We haven't seen clubhouses land in the low-end housing estates.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

hkskyline said:


> You're likely confusing the really low-income public housing with the subsidized ones for the middle class. The low-end ones haven't improved. The middle-class ones have, since they're competing against private housing. We haven't seen clubhouses land in the low-end housing estates.


I doubt clubhouses will exist in low-income public housing. But alot of things has improved like security for example. There was one time I can enter a public housing in Diamond Hill but now, they installed security doors, CCTV, etc.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

WANCH said:


> I doubt clubhouses will exist in low-income public housing. But alot of things has improved like security for example. There was one time I can enter a public housing in Diamond Hill but now, they installed security doors, CCTV, etc.


Not all. Some of the older blocks at Wah Fu Estate still allow outsiders to roam free inside. However, I'm looking at improved living conditions from a spatial and materials quality point of view. Additional security increases quality of life very slightly compared to the actual living space.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

hkskyline said:


> Not all. Some of the older blocks at Wah Fu Estate still allow outsiders to roam free inside. However, I'm looking at improved living conditions from a spatial and materials quality point of view. Additional security increases quality of life very slightly compared to the actual living space.


More of safety although crime rarely happens in these areas. HK used to have a slum problem especially in the hillsides but most of them are gone.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

WANCH said:


> More of safety although crime rarely happens in these areas. HK used to have a slum problem especially in the hillsides but most of them are gone.


Those are not public housing though, although a lot of the residents in the shantytowns ended up in temporary / public housing as those got razed. 

Hong Kong has a very large income gap, but it can't be detected from the crime statistics. Like many developed cities in East Asia, crime is a relatively small problem.


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## Cristovão471 (May 9, 2006)

Sydney does not have a 'slum' lol, but you could probably say the western or south western suburbs.


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## polako (Apr 7, 2005)

I know we are talking about cities here, but Manhattan has the widest rich and poor gap of all US counties. The top fifth makes 52 times what the lowest fifth makes. Here's the article:


The New York Times

September 4, 2005

In Manhattan, Poor Make 2¢ for Each Dollar to the Rich

By SAM ROBERTS

Trump Tower on Fifth Avenue is only about 60 blocks from the Wagner Houses in East Harlem, but they might as well be light years apart. They epitomize the highest- and lowest-earning census tracts in Manhattan, where the disparity between rich and poor is now greater than in any other county in the country.

That finding, in an analysis conducted for The New York Times, dovetails with other new regional economic research, which identifies the Bronx as the poorest urban county in the country and suggests that the middle class in New York State is being depleted. 

The top fifth of earners in Manhattan now make 52 times what the lowest fifth make - $365,826 compared with $7,047 - which is roughly comparable to the income disparity in Namibia, according to the Times analysis of 2000 census data. Put another way, for every dollar made by households in the top fifth of Manhattan earners, households in the bottom fifth made about 2 cents. 

That represents a substantial widening of the income gap from previous years. In 1980, the top fifth of earners made 21 times what the bottom fifth made in Manhattan, which ranked 17th among the nation's counties in income disparity. 

By 1990, Manhattan ranked second behind Kalawao County, Hawaii, a former leper colony with which it had little in common except for that signature grove of palm trees at the World Financial Center. The rich in Manhattan made 32 times the average of the poor then, or $174,486 versus $5,435. 

The analysis was conducted for The Times by Dr. Andrew A. Beveridge, a sociology professor at Queens College of the City University of New York. 

The growing disparity in Manhattan helped drive New York from 11th among cities with the biggest income disparities in 1980 to fifth in 1990 and fourth in 2000, behind Atlanta; Berkeley, Calif.; and Washington, according to the analysis. "The gains are all going to the top," Dr. Beveridge said. "It's a massive class disparity."

Last week, the Census Bureau reported that even as the economy grew around the nation, incomes stagnated and poverty rates rose. The Bronx, with a poverty rate of 30.6 percent, was outranked only by three border counties in Texas where living costs are lower. 

Swollen, in part, by the earnings of commuters who work in New York City, median household income among the states was highest in New Jersey ($61,359) and Connecticut ($60,528). It was $47,349 in New York State, also above the national median.

A separate analysis, being released this weekend by the Fiscal Policy Institute in Albany, warns that the middle class is being depleted while the rich are getting richer and the poor are growing in number and barely getting by - more so in New York State and particularly upstate. 

The loss of good-paying jobs, especially in manufacturing, "has meant that the 'hollowing out' of the middle of the income distribution continued at a rapid pace," the institute, a union-backed research group, concluded. It said the number of families earning between $35,000 and $150,000 declined by 50,000 from 2000 to 2003 while the number that earned above $150,000 and below $35,000 increased. 

Dr. Mark Levitan, senior policy analyst for the Community Service Society, a liberal research and advocacy group, said he did not believe the city's economy was "uniquely weak," but said an increase in the poverty rate from 19 percent to 20.3 percent, as measured by the census's new American Community Survey, "is fundamentally a story about stagnant wages." 

Edward Wolff, a New York University economist, attributed the growing disparity to ballooning Wall Street incomes and declining wages for lower skilled workers. "Though these forces are at work across the country," he said, "the heavy preponderance of corporate headquarters, the financial sector and the legal sector in New York City has made the increase in the ratio of income between the top and bottom quintile more extreme than in other parts of the country." 

Jared Bernstein, senior economist at the liberal Economic Policy Institute, said the income gap, which in Manhattan has historically been large, can endure indefinitely. 

"The elites, the top sliver of the income scale, can drive consumption and investment forward while the bottom half slogs along," he said. "If inequality had embedded within it its own seeds of destruction, it would implode sooner than later. But that doesn't appear to be the case. Many who have fallen behind have a skewed notion of their prospects for upward mobility."

Manhattan, he said, is "an amplified microcosm" of conditions elsewhere in the country. 

The income gap in Manhattan was far wider than in any other county. In tiny Clay County, Georgia, which has only 1,355 households and ranked second, the rich, on average, made about 38 times what the poor made. 

Compared with the poorest Manhattanites, those in the top fifth are disproportionately male, non-Hispanic white and married. Roughly equal proportions among rich and poor are immigrants, are employed by private profit-making companies and work in sales. 

The lowest-income census tract in the city is a triangular patch of East Harlem east of First Avenue and north of East 119th Street, where, despite a hint of gentrification in a renovated brownstone or two, the neighborhood is dominated by the mammoth though generally well-tended public housing project called the Wagner Houses. The median household income there is $9,320, most of the residents are black or Hispanic and do not have high school degrees, 56 percent live below the poverty level and about one in 10 are foreign born.

Darryl Powell, a 43-year-old automobile mechanic, said that most were struggling just to get by. "They're trying to keep a roof over their head," he said. "People are trying to hold onto what they've got." 

Sheila Estep said she was facing eviction because she was working as a full-time mother raising three sons rather than returning to her earlier jobs as an electrician, plumber and cosmetologist. "If I fail at my job, they'll fail at theirs," she said. 

Sharon Hammond, who sells cosmetics, said she and other tenants wished their neighborhood were better and that she had a working stove instead of a temporary hotplate in her apartment, but added: "Everybody can't be rich." 

Manhattan's highest-income census tract is a six-square-block rectangle bounded by Fifth and Park Avenues and East 56th and 59th Streets. The median household income in this mostly commercial section of East Midtown is $188,697 (average family income is $875,267); none of the residents identified themselves as black; nearly one-third have advanced degrees and more than one in three are foreign born. Even there, though, the poverty rate is 16 percent. 

"The income gap, while supposedly increasing, seems to be a natural phenomenon," said the developer Donald J. Trump, who lives in Trump Tower. "Times have been good, but times have been good for many people and many classes of people. I think there is a very large middle class - but not in this section, by the way."


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## Alejandro_MEX (Aug 23, 2005)

WANCH said:


> Didn't Mexico City had a public housing program especially during the mid 20th century. The area around *The Plaza of The Three Cultures* is surrounded by public housing.


Yeah, it had one. But the poverty in the city is a big problem. Have you seen all those thousands of kids in the streets??. As you said, Mexico City does not have the worst distribution of wealth (such as Cancun) in Mexico, but it has one of the worst among other big cities. The rich in Mexico City are VERY RICH. I'd say again: ASK CARLOS SLIM, now the world's richest man.

And I've seen it. If you're from Mexico City, I guess you have seen how are Santa Fe and Cuajimalpa diveded literally by a wall.


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## Yörch1 (Oct 31, 2006)

^^ Yes, but you don't say Mexico City has the highest per capita income in Lat Am with a bit more of 30,000 usd (DF). We can't deny that the 5.4% of population in Mexico City is poor. But that's a very low rate compared on what people may think.


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## Yörch1 (Oct 31, 2006)

WANCH said:


> Didn't Mexico City had a public housing program especially during the mid 20th century. The area around *The Plaza of The Three Cultures* is surrounded by public housing.


Yes it has, but it exists only in DF by the moment. Mexico City is set on the DF (Distrito Federal or Federal District) but its metro area has expanded into two more states.

DF is the "state" where this housing programs have been made. There ara a few "slums" in DF (all of them with water, electricity, phones and such basic services). The one in the picture belongs to the outskirts of the city which technically is in another state.


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## Its AlL gUUd (Jan 24, 2006)

i'm surprised Mumbai isn't on your list.


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## Pax Sinica (Dec 10, 2005)

Hong Kong is a special case. No other cities in the world can be a peace zone between the communist world and the western world.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Pax Sinica said:


> Hong Kong is a special case. No other cities in the world can be a peace zone between the communist world and the western world.


China is really not that communist anymore. People there can now own property.


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## hkth (Sep 15, 2005)

Pax Sinica said:


> Hong Kong is a special case. No other cities in the world can be a peace zone between the communist world and the western world.





WANCH said:


> China is really not that communist anymore. People there can now own property.


In some sense, China is much more capitalism than many so-called capitalist countries! :lol: :lol: :lol: 

However, the wealth gap between the rich and poor is rapidly widening. You can many billionaires within the major cities but you can see more are still living in very harsh condition rural places. It is not so good in long term. hno:


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## Mr.Burn (Feb 6, 2007)

WANCH said:


> Didn't Mexico City had a public housing program especially during the mid 20th century. The area around *The Plaza of The Three Cultures* is surrounded by public housing.


yes and mostly all of mexico's cities have public or very very afordable housing but most of the slums in many cities are filled with "paracaidistas", "parachuters"
thats people that just go one place land there make a house and thats it.

p.s. (notice how most of the slums in many places are made out of concreate and not wood)


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## Insomniac (Sep 11, 2002)

hkth said:


> In some sense, China is much more capitalism than many so-called capitalist countries! :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> However, the wealth gap between the rich and poor is rapidly widening. You can many billionaires within the major cities but you can see more are still living in very harsh condition rural places. It is not so good in long term. hno:





Yeah but they're still in transition, just like Russia.


You would expect Russia and China to be on this list because they're both making the switch from communism to capitalism (which is a process, not an event). But for places like Mexico and Brazil, they have no such excuse. Those countries have some serious problems that are only worsened by the United States and all of the drug addicts we have over here who can't enough of the drugs grown down there.


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## _00_deathscar (Mar 16, 2005)

> You would expect Russia and China to be on this list


Surley the whole point of communism/central economy was that divide between rich and poor was lessened?


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## HirakataShi (Feb 8, 2004)

_00_deathscar said:


> Surley the whole point of communism/central economy was that divide between rich and poor was lessened?


That is the theory. In reality do you think members of the politburo lived the same way the average person did?


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