# BIRMINGHAM | New Monaco | Bristol Street | 29/26fl | 90/80m | Approved



## sefton66 (Sep 26, 2009)

*Go to post 384 on page 20 for planning application details.
*

Bump

Mcr have apparently bought this one

Expect a refurb Id say 

http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/mobi...th-second-acquisition.html?news_section=19009


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## Typhoon2000 (Apr 11, 2009)

sefton66 said:


> Bump
> 
> 
> Mcr have apparently bought this one
> ...


That picture doesn't quite look right....


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## Birmingham (May 29, 2007)

Not sure if we've seen these before, if we have. Apologies

http://sjolanderdacruz.co.uk/projects/mixed-use-urban-development-birmingham


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## morestoreysplease (Jun 5, 2004)

I quite like that with a retained Monaco House as being the hub of the development. As I have said before if we simply remove the bulk we cannot guarantee the height levels to be built to if new blocks go up.


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## sefton66 (Sep 26, 2009)

Nope definatly new, build it!!


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

Birmingham said:


>


 
So is this the actual plan for the site?

I like the layout and mixed uses of the development and it would tie in nicely with the Seven Capital proposals for the other side of Wrentham St. Then you have the potential Barratt development next door at St Lukes. 

Does anybody know the proposed heights?


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## morestoreysplease (Jun 5, 2004)

That's Monaco House refurbed I think Sefton which is what I meant in my post.


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## sefton66 (Sep 26, 2009)

morestoreysplease said:


> That's Monaco House refurbed I think Sefton which is what I meant in my post.


I meant the proposal was new with Monaco house refurbished 

Hope this moves forward asap


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## woodhousen (Sep 11, 2002)

I can confirm that these are either old or speculative proposals. These are not the plans being taken forward by the developer.


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## daumal (May 26, 2010)

Wow, I like that a lot.


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

woodhousen said:


> I can confirm that these are either old or speculative proposals. These are not the plans being taken forward by the developer.


 


What a pity!!

Do you know what is being proposed Woody?


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## Birmingham (May 29, 2007)

woodhousen said:


> I can confirm that these are either old or speculative proposals. These are not the plans being taken forward by the developer.


That's a relief for me. The layout looked really awkward.


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## Typhoon2000 (Apr 11, 2009)

I kinda like that. It says 'Undercroft' car park; does this mean that they will be retaining the ramp on the northbound approach on Bristol Street?


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## BlackCountryAl (May 16, 2013)

Thank goodness. Some nice Spanish seaside apartments by the looks of some of the blocks, not for Birmingham for me. I thought the Tesco plan looked great.


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## BlackCountryAl (May 16, 2013)

morestoreysplease said:


> I quite like that with a retained Monaco House as being the hub of the development. As I have said before if we simply remove the bulk we cannot guarantee the height levels to be built to if new blocks go up.


Do you think if they demolished Monaco house, all of the blocks in that proposal would be reduced to two storeys? Even the Tesco proposal was around the same height as Monaco house.


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## brum2003 (Sep 12, 2002)

Looking at MCR properties website, expect an external clean and internal refurb. Perhaps new entrance lobby.


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## Biosonic (Jun 8, 2005)

Bigger


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## sefton66 (Sep 26, 2009)

Windows were all open on Monaco house this morning, strip out underway?


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## brum2003 (Sep 12, 2002)

Has there been any planning app for this site ?


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## BlackCountryAl (May 16, 2013)

Refurb now I take it. Meh.


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## billyjj (Nov 1, 2016)

Possibly an app will come next year.

Story on Birmingham Post today about this (forum won't let me post the link) which says there's no indication in the demolition notice what is coming next.

About time something was done with this site, good riddance.


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## ellbrown (Mar 13, 2010)

Link here

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/business/birmingham-eyesore-monaco-house-set-12106175

Hope something gets built there. Not a car park for 10 years!


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## nigeman (Oct 3, 2007)

ellbrown said:


> Link here
> 
> http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/business/birmingham-eyesore-monaco-house-set-12106175
> 
> Hope something gets built there. Not a car park for 10 years!


^^
With no new application for the site, I think we can virtually guarantee a surface level car park for at least 3 years hno:


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## BlackCountryAl (May 16, 2013)

nigeman said:


> ^^
> With no new application for the site, I think we can virtually guarantee a surface level car park for at least 3 years hno:



An improvement then


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## BhamBadger (Jun 4, 2016)

All cities have surface car parks. 

I for one prefer a surface car park than a crumbling empty building. At least one of those two things is useful.

A development will come forward, but until then, hey, at least we have some usable land again.


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## Pave.1 (Feb 15, 2016)

Well, as I said



> No firm plans yet but you can expect landmark here - so the grapevine tells me.


Investors are looking at a pretty huge tower here but that's all I know at the moment.


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## Silhillian (Jun 25, 2015)

^^ They're knocking down the petrol station too aren't they?


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## Billsmothers (Apr 24, 2015)

Guilbert53 said:


> As I said in my intro, this is a very unpleasant site, one of the worst I have ever walked round in Birmingham.


Guilbert - thanks very much for bravely walking around this site and providing us with all these images. While I had obviously registered that Monoco House itself was an eyesore, it had never really occurred to me that this was such a huge area. 

That tunnel under Bristol Street is really peculiar. I wonder what the thinking behind its construction was and whether it ever fulfilled a useful purpose before falling into dereliction.

The evidence of drug-taking is shocking, but the very positive side of this is that the potential for a city centre gateway development linking up with Southside is tremendous.


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## citywatcher01 (Jun 17, 2016)

There are several areas with quite obvious evidence of drug taking - the piece of waste ground behind the kilby lighthorne estate in ladywood has a chair and is littered - literally - with hundreds of exposes needles. 

This is a vast site so will be interesting to see what is proposed here


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## BhamBadger (Jun 4, 2016)

Can confirm that that subway is absolutely horrendous at any time past 7 o clock. 

This site is huge, and if we do get a landmark tower here, it'd be absolutely fab. They could also go for a hell of a footprint, so we might not end up with a really skinny tower either. Possibly even two large towers al a left bank?


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## BlackCountryAl (May 16, 2013)

That subway needs filling in


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## cameronxdegziade (Oct 23, 2015)

Great photos thanks. Always wondered where that expensively built road went under Bristol road!

To think several years back there was a flagship Ferrari/Aston Martin showroom and an expensive furniture store based there giving a great sense of prestige and now its a derelict drug haven.


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## citywatcher01 (Jun 17, 2016)

It's a shame the housing estate behind is so self contained - I understand the reasoning re crime etc but it's a real barrier to pedestrians.


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## LocalVernacular (May 30, 2013)

The access road was used heavily back in the day. I used it all the time to make deliveries to the businesses on site. It used to be a hive of activity with main Volvo and Evans Halshaw dealerships and businesses in Monaco House and the industrial units at the rear. Such a shame to see it in the state it's in now.

As for the subways, there's three along this stretch of Bristol St. Again, they all used to be busy, with Monaco House, Matthew Boulton College and St Lukes School, etc, but now they're all gone hardly anyone uses two of them. I don't think they should be removed - once the area has been redeveloped they'll become busy again and will be of real benefit to people in the area - without them it can take 10 minutes to cross Bristol St.


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## sefton66 (Sep 26, 2009)

Digger already on site tonight...


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## lammy82 (Sep 11, 2016)

Great photos, Guilbert.

Yes, according to the demolition notice (link in post #102) the demolition includes Monaco House, its car park and workshop, Nova Court (that other smaller office block in photo 14), Wrentham Street industrial estate (as shown in photo 18), and the fuel station you can see in photo 2 (but not Bristol Street Motors).

The fuel station is still actively trading so I wonder if it will be spared for a while longer? 

Anyone want to hazard a guess (or have knowledge) as to how long the overall demolition will take? And likely method?

And surely the underground access road needs to be properly closed off from the A38 (at least during the demolition if not permanently) as it is a one way road and will be emerging into an active demolition site.


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## lammy82 (Sep 11, 2016)

A little anecdote: I was talking to a BT engineer the other day who told me about a time when he was called out to Bristol Street Motors. Their phones had mysteriously gone dead overnight. Every single line had been disconnected.

After much investigation and head scratching both on site and at the exchange the problem was eventually traced to a cable conduit which ran across the ceiling of that underground access road. The remains of a freshly burnt out car sat directly beneath it.


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## ellbrown (Mar 13, 2010)

Here's my photos of Monaco House and Bristol Street from February 2012.






Road to the forgotten tunnel



Subway














Used to be a Stratstone car dealership here.



And The Sofa Specialists








Why was so many eyesores green lit back in the 1960s?


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## Eastside al (Oct 27, 2015)

All fenced off now and demolition contractors on site.


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## daumal (May 26, 2010)

Well, good luck to Intro Developments Ltd (write name of applicant) with the demolition!


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## cmpd1 (Nov 11, 2012)

Thanks Guilbert for the photos from the other week. What a disgrace, particularly as the site is so near to the centre of town. Can you imagine another big European city with so much crud within a stone's throw of the middle? And to call it "Monaco House" was taking the piss surely.


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## leonigmig (Jun 7, 2015)

this area is so intriguing because the tunnel is so useless! what a huge expense that now looks absurd

does anyone know, or know how to find out

- when the tunnel was built? same time as A38? when was that?
- what the tunnel was for? must have been a reason
- what the 'masterplan' for this area was - how was it supposed to work?
- who was supposed to use the tunnel?
- what was it supposed to look like?
- what did it look like when it was 'finished'?
- did anyone ever use it?
- was it ever a success? was this tunnel an error, or did it fall in misuse?


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## leonigmig (Jun 7, 2015)

leonigmig said:


> - what the tunnel was for? must have been a reason


this is more interesting than I thought! seems it was the paddock for the superprix car racing?

http://i1.birminghammail.co.uk/incoming/article10210524.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Prix-17.jpg

behind monaco house, matches the image above. I wonder if the tunnel was built for the super prix?

edit:
more from 'brumpic': https://brumpic.wordpress.com/2015/05/31/revisiting-the-birmingham-superprix/


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## ReissOmari (Sep 7, 2009)

That's a lot of questions Leon.

I'm just worried that the tunnel will be lost in the demolition, Tesco were to reuse it as an entrance to the car park, and all though it wasn't made for public traffic, it did take some pressure off Holloway Circus for people getting over to Southside.

I've said it before but I'm a little confused as to why it's been demolished with no plans brought forward as of yet, will we be getting another large car park here for years to come?


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## leonigmig (Jun 7, 2015)

dredged this up, it was a complex called 'Birmingham Automobile Centre':

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Boost+for+workers+as+Eurolok+picks+its+new+home.-a060694382



> It is a welnown local landmark as it was immediately next to the starting grid and provided the pits for the Birmingham Superprix, a popular Formula 3000 race around the city's streets.
> 
> The 5.6 acre site contains Ferrari and Jaguar dealerships operated by Evans Halshaw, a Lex Volvo dealership, a Europ Car office and a Fina petrol filling station. The dealerships also include full parts and workshop operations.
> 
> ...


From a Post article in 1998. Looks like its been allowed to rot since '98 by successive owners. To the point the original intent of the complex is illegible.

@reiss, I feel like my intrigue is satisfied now  

would still love to see a pic of this complex in a sensible state, rather than the weird, ruined bedraggled state it is in the recent pics


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## leonigmig (Jun 7, 2015)

> will we be getting another large car park here for years to come?


agree, this seems very likely


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## leonigmig (Jun 7, 2015)

best I could come up with. the young woman must be retirement age now. the car probably scrapped 25 years ago.


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## ComPurch (Aug 24, 2011)

leonigmig said:


> best I could come up with. the young woman must be retirement age now. the car probably scrapped 25 years ago.


Do you have a ring-binder with similar images,leonigmig?
I so love mo-mo's. :lol:


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## leonigmig (Jun 7, 2015)

ComPurch said:


> Do you have a ring-binder with similar images,leonigmig?
> I so love mo-mo's. :lol:


nah found it on ebay via Google Image search 


guess whoever is selling it has a ringbinder though! starting bid £6.99!


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## ComPurch (Aug 24, 2011)

^^
'Bristol' Street Motors...fnar,fnar.


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## nigeman (Oct 3, 2007)

leonigmig said:


> this area is so intriguing because the tunnel is so useless! what a huge expense that now looks absurd
> 
> does anyone know, or know how to find out
> 
> ...


^^
The reason for the tunnel as been mentioned several times on this forum, it was used to access the car dealerships and various businesses as well as parking, in and arouind Monaco House when coming from out of town routes without having to drive right up to the Horsefair roundabout.
It was used constantly by the people working in and around Monaco House.
I can't see any reason at all why it can't be retained in any future development.


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## ellbrown (Mar 13, 2010)

Bristol Street Motors in February 2012


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## Billsmothers (Apr 24, 2015)

Can anyone clarify: is Bristol Street Motors going, or not? (and if not, why not?)


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## Pave.1 (Feb 15, 2016)

Billsmothers said:


> Can anyone clarify: is Bristol Street Motors going, or not? (and if not, why not?)


Presumably Bristol Street Motors don't want their building demolished?


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## fruit&nut (Jul 18, 2006)

Bottom one is BSM as the Super Prix pits.....



Bottom one here is the old cinema that was next to Evans Halshaw - where the flat car park is...


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## Billsmothers (Apr 24, 2015)

Pave.1 said:


> Presumably Bristol Street Motors don't want their building demolished?


Well I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek there. But if, as has been suggested, this is going to be a big landmark housing development, market forces may have their way in due course.


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

^^ Guilbert, yes Barratt West Midlands have bought the site at Hope St and they`ve also purchased the smaller plots the other side of Sherlock St where four of the towers in the picture below used to be.

So many of the blocks below have been demolished over the years. I actually miss them. Thanks for the memories F+N !!  



fruit&nut said:


> http://s118.photobucket.com/user/fruityandnutty/media/super prix/sp87-7.jpg.html


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## sefton66 (Sep 26, 2009)

I really wish we kept all the tower blocks and give them a refurb with private apartments mixed in to make them more appealing, the refurbished blocks behind Broadway plaza look high quality


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## BlackCountryAl (May 16, 2013)

Which refurbished blocks are you talking about?

Other than five ways tower and Metropolitan house, that skyline is ghastly.


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## Fidget808 (Mar 16, 2016)

Billsmothers said:


> Well I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek there. But if, as has been suggested, this is going to be a big landmark housing development, market forces may have their way in due course.


I don't have much on this one but I'm told it's going to be student accommodation and nothing particularly exciting either.

Bristol street motors is under new ownership and there are no plans to close it.


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## sefton66 (Sep 26, 2009)

Them blokes look like they're in boiler suits

Asbestos strip out first, place is probably riddled with it

Be a few months strip out first before it'll come down


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## Silhillian (Jun 25, 2015)

Those hoardings are now all the way around the site again


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## JRB1234 (Aug 15, 2015)

ItsSoMichael said:


> Those hoardings are now all the way around the site again


Good. Can't wait to see this flattened. Such a grim building. I'm intrigued what will be replacing it though.


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## lammy82 (Sep 11, 2016)

The Bristol St tunnel has been sealed off at the entrance from the northbound carriageway.


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## sefton66 (Sep 26, 2009)

I hope they keep the underpass, could come in handy for future development


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## ReissOmari (Sep 7, 2009)

R.I.P.

Was a great shortcut to Southside.


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## markmcd1976 (Oct 25, 2007)

Was it open to the public?


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## lammy82 (Sep 11, 2016)

Yes, I used it all the time to get to Digbeth from Park Central. It was rendered barely passable through fly tipping during the last few months though.


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## lammy82 (Sep 11, 2016)

Stripping out of the workshop units at the rear of the site has begun.


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## sefton66 (Sep 26, 2009)

do we know whats proposed here yet or could we be seeing a demo and resale?


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## lammy82 (Sep 11, 2016)

Steady progress being made. The asbestos removal from Monaco House seems to have been completed.

Meanwhile, this is what the workshops at the rear look like now:


Various outbuildings just behind the main block have been removed and the ground floor of Monaco House has been opened up:








The petrol station is being picked apart too:



(All images in this post are clickable for the full version)


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## Billsmothers (Apr 24, 2015)

What an amazing amount of horrible, useless but potentially very useful space to discover within the city centre. It looks like there's an adjoining patch of poor quality housing that needs to be redeveloped, too.


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## ReissOmari (Sep 7, 2009)

Petrol Station is no more

Just drove past, it's all gone already


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## citywatcher01 (Jun 17, 2016)

Is it usual practice to demolish without submitting planning for a replacement. Must be very confident to be investing


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## nigeman (Oct 3, 2007)

Billsmothers said:


> What an amazing amount of horrible, useless but potentially very useful space to discover within the city centre. It looks like there's an adjoining patch of poor quality housing that needs to be redeveloped, too.


^^
This site lies between the large St Luke's scheme on one side and Madison House and the recently announced massive Kent Street Baths scheme on the otherside, I'm hoping and there have been suggestions, this is going to be a large development too. 
This side of Bristol Street is potentially going to be transformed and expand the city centre core further outwards.
Looking forward to seeing proposals for this!


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

^^ Making me salivate nigeman.

Don`t forget the student residences along Bristol St, plus the Unity and Armouries development. Fingers crossed, all of these sites go ahead.


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## JRB1234 (Aug 15, 2015)

^^ Could become a cracking part of town really. Would like to see high density builds around here, will expand the city core southwards and give a great urban feel.


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## djay (Jan 8, 2008)

citywatcher01 said:


> Is it usual practice to demolish without submitting planning for a replacement. Must be very confident to be investing


They submitted an application for Prior Approval for demolition.


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## citywatcher01 (Jun 17, 2016)

djay said:


> They submitted an application for Prior Approval for demolition.


 ok thanks


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## markmcd1976 (Oct 25, 2007)

A metro line down pershore street to the cricket ground and selly oak would be perfect here.


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

^^ No. That was Park Central Phase 11 (currently U/C) but there was talk of a large supermarket here.


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## Bugbyte (Mar 12, 2015)

The Beetham tower down the road is 130m tall and 39 floors. 20 floors contain 158 apartments, so if the whole building was given over to apartments @ 8 apartments per floor you would be looking at around 312 apartments. This development is over 1000 apartments, plus by the looks of it significant commercial space. To get this amount of apartments, we are looking at 3 1/2 Beethams. I expect significant hight here with more than one tower at or above 130m to cram it all in. The developer is from Manchester where they have been building high for some time - looking forward to this!


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## nigeman (Oct 3, 2007)

BlackCountryAl said:


> Noice. And some people wanted the old block to stay.


^^
Over the moon with this proposal.
So as its stands if the current proposals go ahead, along with the schemes already started Southside leading in almost a continuous swathe into Digbeth (south west side) we have approximately :
St Lukes -800 homes
New Monaco - 1000 homes
Madison House - 160 homes
Kent Street Baths - 500 homes
The Armouries and Unity House - 200 homes
The Forum - 380 homes
Site behind Latitude - 200 homes
Smithfield -2000 homes
Connaught Square - 800 homes
The two Bradford street schemes - 380 homes
Fabrick Square - 300 homes
St Annes Court - 170 homes
Bullring Trading centre (off Digbeth High Street) and site next door, the Hanging Garden scheme - c500 homes? 

Apologies if the figures aren't entirely correct, and I've probably missed a few, including several student accommodation schemes, but we have here, in just one area of the city centre alone, nearly 7500 homes being proposed or under construction. 

The city centre on this side will be changed and expanded beyond recognition with a scale of development never seen in Birmingham before.
We won't just be needing a supermarket or two, with limited parking being shown in most of these developments, there needs to be some serious assessment of a metro route running through or nearby these developments in my opinion.

Not complaining at all about the amount of development, but I hope the council really looks at the combined scale of these developments and the amount of people who are going to be moving through the area, and how it will affect it.


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## Bugbyte (Mar 12, 2015)

Manchester Property Group (mcr property group) are behind this but I am struggling to find what they have built elsewhere. They don't have a live website but their accounts show assets of £3.6m so they must have done something somewhere!


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## joshwebb (Jan 6, 2010)

I'll guess 22 floors 70m.


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## Astonian (Apr 17, 2015)

nigeman said:


> ^^
> Over the moon with this proposal.
> So as its stands if the current proposals go ahead, along with the schemes already started Southside leading in almost a continuous swathe into Digbeth (south west side) we have approximately :
> St Lukes -800 homes
> ...


The Hanging Gardens scheme is the one I'm really itching to see built. Not only because it looks great and iconic but to get rid of that trading estate, an absolute blot on the street-scene,


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## woodhousen (Sep 11, 2002)

Bugbyte said:


> Manchester Property Group (mcr property group) are behind this but I am struggling to find what they have built elsewhere. They don't have a live website but their accounts show assets of £3.6m so they must have done something somewhere!


Are MCR still involved in this project? the article above refer to Regency Residential which is a different company!


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## Billsmothers (Apr 24, 2015)

nigeman said:


> The city centre on this side will be changed and expanded beyond recognition with a scale of development never seen in Birmingham before.
> We won't just be needing a supermarket or two, with limited parking being shown in most of these developments, there needs to be some serious assessment of a metro route running through or nearby these developments in my opinion.


BCC has already floated the idea of a line leaving the Eastside extension at Digbeth and running through the Smithfield site and along the Pershore Road to serve the cricket ground and QE hospital. I'm speculating that it might go via the Pebble Mill development site to access the Bristol Road (restoring a short section of its fondly-remembered dual carriageway tramway) to reach the university/QE.

This has to be a serious proposal because trams are an integral component in the published visualisations of Smithfield. As you say, the scale of the developments now emerging on this side of the city centre give it further impetus. One issue is whether it would be impeded by traffic on the Pershore Road or whether a separate alignment could be provided alongside it for at least some of the distance.


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## Biosonic (Jun 8, 2005)

woodhousen said:


> Are MCR still involved in this project? the article above refer to Regency Residential which is a different company!


Part of MCR but probably separate for liability reasons


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## Bugbyte (Mar 12, 2015)

woodhousen said:


> Are MCR still involved in this project? the article above refer to Regency Residential which is a different company!


As I read it, Regency Residential are the letting arm of MCR. RR on their website allude to large quantities of developments but don't give any specifics, and I can't find any track record. They have two current properties you can buy into, one in Derby which may be a new build and one in Manchester which looks like an office conversion. 

MCR appear to buy and sell office accommodation and are mentioned in the Manchester papers - They for example owned the old exchange building in the city centre, and a 3 story office block ironically called 'altitude', although I cant see anyone getting a nosebleed looking out of the top floor window. MCR have a 'coming soon' website. They are a trading company, with £3.6m of assets. They did not develop the exchange building and have sold it on for a loss of approximately £3m. The fact they could take that loss and still stay solvent indicates they do have other developments which have been successful - I just cant find them! 

This development looks like a step up for them, and hopefully they won't just convert Monaco House. We should take some comfort that demolition has already begun and they are at least a real company with some history of delivery. I will pop over the the Manc forum and see if anyone knows anything about them!


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## fruit&nut (Jul 18, 2006)

Billsmothers said:


> BCC has already floated the idea of a line leaving the Eastside extension at Digbeth and running through the Smithfield site and along the Pershore Road to serve the cricket ground and QE hospital. I'm speculating that it might go via the Pebble Mill development site to access the Bristol Road (restoring a short section of its fondly-remembered dual carriageway tramway) to reach the university/QE.


I know it's slightly off topic, but as the QE and University are well served by the Cross City line, I've long thought that a route from Digbeth through Smithfield, past this development (getting back to topic tenuously) and then down the Pershore Road would be better to continue via Edgbaston (for Cricket and Tennis clubs) and then continue to Moseley and Kings Heath where there is no overground train service.


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## Silhillian (Jun 25, 2015)

fruit&nut said:


> I know it's slightly off topic, but as the QE and University are well served by the Cross City line, I've long thought that a route from Digbeth through Smithfield, past this development (getting back to topic tenuously) and then down the Pershore Road would be better to continue via Edgbaston (for Cricket and Tennis clubs) and then continue to Moseley and Kings Heath where there is no overground train service.




No overground service yet.


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## Biosonic (Jun 8, 2005)

Does that mean there is an underground :?


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## morestoreysplease (Jun 5, 2004)

Wombling Free ?


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## Brum X (Mar 5, 2007)

Bugbyte said:


> The Beetham tower down the road is 130m tall and 39 floors. 20 floors contain 158 apartments, so if the whole building was given over to apartments @ 8 apartments per floor you would be looking at around 312 apartments. This development is over 1000 apartments, plus by the looks of it significant commercial space. To get this amount of apartments, we are looking at 3 1/2 Beethams. I expect significant hight here with more than one tower at or above 130m to cram it all in. The developer is from Manchester where they have been building high for some time - looking forward to this!


I think HCT is 122m tall ?


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## WatcherZero (Jul 2, 2009)

Bugbyte said:


> Manchester Property Group (mcr property group) are behind this but I am struggling to find what they have built elsewhere. They don't have a live website but their accounts show assets of £3.6m so they must have done something somewhere!


As requested in Manchester forum did some quick research. Not surprised no ones heard of Regency Residential as they were only launched Jan 31st this year. They seem to be doing the legwork for another company called Intro Developments who are the money men, that company was registered 7th April 2015. 

Mcr property group was registered 7 March 2006 but for most of the time since then its been a dormant shell company with brief flurries of activity before returning to dormancy.


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

^^ Thank you WZ.

I`ve literally been licking my lips since I read about this proposal yesterday. Can`t wait for the full details.


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## Bugbyte (Mar 12, 2015)

Thanks Watcher, hopefully they are legit.


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## sefton66 (Sep 26, 2009)

Things really are all coming together now, so glad Tesco proposal never come to anything and was sold on, thank god!


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## ReissOmari (Sep 7, 2009)

sefton66 said:


> Things really are all coming together now, so glad Tesco proposal never come to anything and was sold on, thank god!


A shame the same didn't happen to Morrison Five Ways.


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## sefton66 (Sep 26, 2009)




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## HAPPYSOD (Oct 27, 2016)

I think it's probably a 3rd of the entire scheme. I will wait to see it's entirety but not blown away by it.


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

I like the fact there is retail down the side street and I'll be happy if the retail continues along Bristol St into the next residential block. Can`t quite work out whether it does or not.


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## nigeman (Oct 3, 2007)

I like the size and boldness of it. 
If we want our city to expand then low rise areas like these right in the heart of the city must be taller and larger generally.
With reference to the scale compared to Madison House and the new student block, remember the Kent Street Baths proposal sits right between these two and rises up to 15 stories, for me Madison House should have been twice as tall and the student block could have been higher too, its those buildings that will look out of place.
Just because these low rise schemes were granted planning first doesn't mean the rest of Bristol Street should then have to mirror that scale surely?
This side if the city needs reinventing and a large scale development for me is just whats needed.


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## BlackCountryAl (May 16, 2013)

Blimey, that's some London scale shiz!


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## markmcd1976 (Oct 25, 2007)

The metro really needs a route down the Bristol Road, more important than a cycle lane.


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## Brum Boy (Feb 22, 2016)

Love it.

Maybe there is an opportunity for Bristol Street Motors to strike a deal to take all the ground floor retail here and redevelop their plot also.

Bristol Street is going to be amazing in a few years. Bring back the Superprix.


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## HAPPYSOD (Oct 27, 2016)

So do we think another tower is involved? It looked that way from another CGI and it is 1,000+ apartments. Maybe we'll see something over 30 storeys here


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## cameronxdegziade (Oct 23, 2015)

The security must be really lax because so much graffiti is getting added nighty to the windows. lol. It will be a work of art soon


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## Billsmothers (Apr 24, 2015)

cameronxdegziade said:


> The security must be really lax because so much graffiti is getting added nighty to the windows. lol. It will be a work of art soon


It will never be a work of art.


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## Biosonic (Jun 8, 2005)

Well it's something :lol: a bit too 1967 for me

It looks liek 2 linked blocks but it does look bulky, 24 floors though so decent size and I guess a large supermarket or showroom on ground floor

Thanks for find HAPPYSOD :cheers:


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## 882774 (May 13, 2004)

horrific cheap looking crap.


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## Brummyboy92 (Aug 2, 2007)

I like the direction we are going in with this one, very London-esque.


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## BhamBadger (Jun 4, 2016)

I'd put mys1elf somewhere between the two reactions above, from Brummy and Tony Bear.

I do like the scaleand the direction it is taking. It is similar to the scale of a London project. However I agree in Tony's assertation that it looks cheap and worse still a bit chunky.

This would look better as two slimmer towers on a podium in my opinion, with the podium having the same internal space as pictured. It all looks a bit too chunky for my tastes there, and is also risking looking cheap if we are the trust the render.

Either this block should be split, or be made taller is my take on it. Though I'm very glad to see that street interaction with the presumably commercial unit, that's very welcome.


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## djay (Jan 8, 2008)

nigeman said:


> Just because these low rise schemes were granted planning first doesn't mean the rest of Bristol Street should then have to mirror that scale surely?
> This side if the city needs reinventing and a large scale development for me is just whats needed.


No it should respect it though which this buildings clearly doesn't. Orion and its neighbouring apartments is a development which respects lower rise development. That is the type of massing approach that should be taken here.


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## HAPPYSOD (Oct 27, 2016)

It has town houses and 4 storey apartment blocks. I think it does that djay to be fair


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## djay (Jan 8, 2008)

HAPPYSOD said:


> It has town houses and 4 storey apartment blocks. I think it does that djay to be fair


Which render are you looking at? I see a 24 storeys resi building adjacent to a 3.5 storey resi building.


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## JRB1234 (Aug 15, 2015)

I'm not sure what to make of this one. The scale of it is huge... very similar in size and bulk to centenary plaza. 

I think it should should be a bit more sensitive to the surrounding low rise buildings, maybe different material pallet and more stepped up design. 

Overall I like the ambition to development a large scheme here, will certainly help expand the city centre outwards which is great. I think it needs some revisions though.... which is probably more than likely as it's only the 1st design unveiled.


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## ReissOmari (Sep 7, 2009)

Going back to the designs, things can change for the better as we have seen at Connaught Square and International House, all I'm saying is we need more brickwork here and to the slim the tower down a tad, the podium looks great, would be nice to see a full sized Waitrose here.


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## HAPPYSOD (Oct 27, 2016)

This block itself I don't believe will be the main bulk of it. It's a 1000+ units and initial tenders suggest a slim line tower elsewhere


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## cameronxdegziade (Oct 23, 2015)

Great news. What an eyesore this is to those entering the core. 

I remember going there as a kid when it was Aston Martin/Ferrari and drooling over the F40 and F50 sitting side by side in front of the Testarossa's and 348's!


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## ReissOmari (Sep 7, 2009)

Shouldn't we have an application by now? A little worrying the site is getting demolished and there's no sign of what's happening after.


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## lammy82 (Sep 11, 2016)

Down she comes


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## SMUK86 (Jun 30, 2017)

lammy82 said:


> Down she comes


Finally!! I never thought I would see the day :banana:


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## SMUK86 (Jun 30, 2017)

ReissOmari said:


> Shouldn't we have an application by now? A little worrying the site is getting demolished and there's no sign of what's happening after.


Yes quite worrying there has been no further movement, nothing new on the developers website either, that said it is a massive site in all so may take a little more time. 

No doubt we will end up with a vast surface car park for two years though, which although is not ideal is still definitely preferable to the state it is in at present.


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

ReissOmari said:


> Shouldn't we have an application by now? A little worrying the site is getting demolished and there's no sign of what's happening after.




The point was made several months ago that the company that own the site are land traders rather than developers. Unfortunately.


Glad to see some movement on the site though.

And thinking about it, maybe a planning app is just around the corner. My gut instinct is saying it's unlikely but I hope I'm wrong.


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## BlackCountryAl (May 16, 2013)

Holy moly. This is good.


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

I'm hoping that this is the unnamed site in the city centre that Court Collaboration plan 1230 new homes. I can't see where else that site would be, apart from St Lukes which Barratt currently owns.


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## joshwebb (Jan 6, 2010)

Isn't this whats proposed?



sefton66 said:


>


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

^^ Josh, apparently the company is well known in Manchester and the suggestion is that they 'tend' to be a land trader rather than a developer. I suppose we shall just have to wait and see.


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## Sandblast (Jun 17, 2008)

Weren't there plans mooted for a 30 storey apartment tower here?


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## joshwebb (Jan 6, 2010)

RalphGuy said:


> ^^ Josh, apparently the company is well known in Manchester and the suggestion is that they 'tend' to be a land trader rather than a developer. I suppose we shall just have to wait and see.


Which company? Then one who currently owns this land? Are you implying that they will clear this site n sell it on to another company that could realistically build on it?


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

^^ I don't know for sure but I think that's more likely than them developing it themselves. I'm only going on what one of the Manchester forumers was saying about the guy/company(Manchester based) who owns the land. I looked up the history of the company some months ago and they mainly developed small sites in small cities. My gut instinct says they will sell this on to someone else to develop, hopefully sooner rather than later. I might be wrong though.


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## 916646 (May 14, 2014)

Goodbye rooftop. You gave so many amazing views. I hope you're eventually reincarnated as a thriving community with a decently sized & designed tower lol :sad2:


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## Brum X (Mar 5, 2007)

Great to see another Turd coming down in our city


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## JayPeeDee (Jan 27, 2007)




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## Birmingham (May 29, 2007)

I’m glad this is going even without planning for anything else as of yet. I was looking at the Ford Garage recently and I honestly didn’t have a good word to say about the building or area. 

I expect this to jump in size following on from Kent Street Baths so if that’s 18 storeys this will be around 25-30.

It’ll start to give Birmingham a real big city feeling on near enough every entrance then.


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

Birmingham, have you heard anything on the grapevine about whether we will see a planning app shortly?


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## ReissOmari (Sep 7, 2009)

I didn't think the Ford garage was included.


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## Ppmb80 (Jul 30, 2015)

25 to 30 storeys ? Crikey I hope so is this a fact or just your opinion ?


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

^^ Yes I was wondering if Birmingham knew something that we didn't about this site. I hope he hasn't logged off for the day. :lol:


Or for a week. :sad2:


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## Birmingham (May 29, 2007)

Sorry guys! This is just an opinion. I have no knowledge of what they propose here at all. It’s a gateway though so I would expect something tallish but it’s nothing we don’t already know.


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

Biosonic said:


> Bump.
> 
> http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/westmidlands/news/2003697-275m-garden-village-development-revealed
> 
> ...




The original article announcing the proposals for this site was May 30th 2017, so that's over five months ago. The article said that Regency Residential would shortly be submitting a planning app. My definition of shortly submitting a planning app is not five months. Five weeks maybe but not five months.

Either way, good to see the building being demolished. It is an eyesore.


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

I've checked the Regency Residential website but there is nothing about this, although there is a write up about their ongoing development of a five storey block on Kings Heath High St.

I then looked at the website of their parent company, MCR Property Group, and found a write up in the 'Projects and Acquisitions' section about Monaco House which unfortunately I can't post. It says there will be 1050 units, including both tenants and homeowners. The write up mentions the buildings will have full height windows and it also says that this site should generate lots of interest from investors across the world.


I am now pretty sure that this is not the Court Collaboration site for 1230 homes so I wonder where that could be? :hmm:


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## leonigmig (Jun 7, 2015)

http://www.mcrproperty.com/project/new-monaco-birmingham/


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

Right, here is some news. My source has told me that if the planning application hasn't gone in yet, it is due very shortly so keep your eyes peeled.

The plan is to start on site sometime next year, subject to a Section 106, although my source said they couldn't confirm the tenure of the development. They want to start selling as soon as possible.

Heights wise, somewhere around twenty to twenty five storeys for the tallest building.

And Court Collaboration are definitely not involved in this site so I'm wondering where their site for 1230 homes will be.


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

The Mancs have been told to expect some big news this week about a site for over 1200 units from the same company. Perhaps they mean business after all.


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## Ppmb80 (Jul 30, 2015)

RalphGuy said:


> Right, here is some news. My source has told me that if the planning application hasn't gone in yet, it is due very shortly so keep your eyes peeled.
> 
> The plan is to start on site sometime next year, subject to a Section 106, although my source said they couldn't confirm the tenure of the development. They want to start selling as soon as possible.
> 
> ...


Sounds interesting look forward to the plans ....although would have liked something a little taller 30 storeys or so ...as this is a gate way site


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## lammy82 (Sep 11, 2016)

So, how did Monaco House do compared to its contemporaries?

From the Estates Gazette, Vol. 246 (1974).

*STOP LOOKING! for offices
in central Birmingham*










Monaco House is being demolished as I type
St James' House is sitting empty, across Bristol Street above the O2 Arena, despite previous plans to convert to student accommodation
Does anyone know what Monza House is? The only reference I can find has it as being somewhere on Bristol Street.
Kensington House has been recently given a new lease of life as student accommodation (thread)


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## cameronxdegziade (Oct 23, 2015)

interesting that about Monaco house "from the M6 not an island or traffic light to hold you up". I guess its still true if you don't count the traffic light right outside it although its all the traffic lights around and after Monaco house that will most certainly hold you up when coming from in via the M6 lol


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## lammy82 (Sep 11, 2016)

Progress


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## lammy82 (Sep 11, 2016)

One more


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## Brum X (Mar 5, 2007)

Plenty of space here for the Birmingham Pride Dance Arena in 2018, cant see it being in front of the Madisson house apartments next year which is where it has been for the last few years.


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## 916646 (May 14, 2014)

Yeah spot on. There have been discussions internally. Nowt concrete - pardon the pun


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

Apologies for bumping the thread but there is a substantial article on the Birmingham Post website about the demolition of Monaco House, it's history and the Super Prix. 

No development application submitted yet though.


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## ellbrown (Mar 13, 2010)

RalphGuy said:


> Apologies for bumping the thread but there is a substantial article on the Birmingham Post website about the demolition of Monaco House, it's history and the Super Prix.
> 
> No development application submitted yet though.


Just read it here on the Birmingham Mail.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/demolition-work-landmark-city-building-13899045


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## Silhillian (Jun 25, 2015)




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## lammy82 (Sep 11, 2016)

Good progress, 1/3 demolished by my reckoning.


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## Bureau des etrangers (Jan 17, 2009)

Shows the progress on the block behind. Is it Kent street?? Looking forward to a lot more development around here.


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## lammy82 (Sep 11, 2016)

Bureau des etrangers said:


> Shows the progress on the block behind. Is it Kent street?? Looking forward to a lot more development around here.


It's the Madison House project, not to be confused with the not-yet-started former Kent Street Baths project!


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## citywatcher01 (Jun 17, 2016)

Full height glazing and deep reveals. I can see the committee having a conniption. 

Seriously though. looks smart. shame there isn't integration of access ways through the site to the council estate to the south east, opening up more walking routes to highgate....however minor gripe


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## Hugh90 (Feb 9, 2017)

Think the first looks to be the best all round. The second and thirds top looks terrible very 60s tower block. And worried about how the second and third will age. But the quality of materials would be a big deciding factor. Would be interesting to know how much budget they have for the scheme.


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## nigeman (Oct 3, 2007)

SMUK86 said:


> To me the one on the right is where Bristol St Motors currently is.


^^
For some reason I always thought Bristol Street Motors was part of the the Monaco House site.
So we'll have St Luke's and New Monaco with Bristol Street Motors in between.
I assume they would stand to make a tidy bit of money if they sold up, (and it would look odd with two large developments either side). So then we may get a third, fourth, if you include a Kent Street Baths, potentially large schemes, fronting or visible as you come down the Bristol Road from Edgbaston. :banana:


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## BlackCountryAl (May 16, 2013)

I like this 'necklace' of towers that all of these developments should form, but the approach into the city would be even more impressive if it were the same on the other side of the street. There's the MSCP by the O2, a corner plot by the Church, that disgusting IBIS hotel and some semi-detatched houses that don't belong there that could make way for some talls.


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## BhamJim (Jul 8, 2009)

If it's worth posting preferences for any council members or journo's who maybe on the thread, then mine is definitely for option 2. I'm not keen at all on 1 or 3, but then I love straight lines and symmetry, and I realise this could make for a pretty boring city-scape.


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## Ppmb80 (Jul 30, 2015)

Birmingham said:


> First one looks very smart. The others I don’t like.


I agree!.

Must be pushing 76 and 90 mtrs here great scale.

I wonder what the other 3 towers will be along the Bristol road ?

Exciting times !!


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## daumal (May 26, 2010)

The first one is probably the best of the three, but I'm not a huge fan of any of them. Quite liking the look of the scheme as a whole though - looking forward to the planning app.


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## DaciaDuster (Apr 25, 2016)

The first one reminds me of One Greengate in Manchester.

Photo credit TamaSuperstar


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## joshwebb (Jan 6, 2010)

Ppmb80 said:


> I agree!.
> 
> Must be pushing 76 and 90 mtrs here great scale.
> 
> ...


Exciting indeed! The tower on the Nisbets plot looks to be 35-40 storeys.


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## Ppmb80 (Jul 30, 2015)

Which one is this on the nesbits? Is it the next one up Bristol street ?

Does anyone know anything about the other towels proposals along Bristol street they all look biggies?


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## joshwebb (Jan 6, 2010)

^^ Its the second tower to the left thats outlined yellow.


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## Ppmb80 (Jul 30, 2015)

joshwebb said:


> ^^ Its the second tower to the left thats outlined yellow.


Apologies if I'm confused but I thought the 2 towers furthest to the left were these 29 and 25 story towers ?


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## joshwebb (Jan 6, 2010)

Ppmb80 said:


> Apologies if I'm confused but I thought the 2 towers furthest to the left were these 29 and 25 story towers ?


The furthest to the left yellow outlined is at holloway circus which looks about 45-50 storeys then the next one along in a yellow outline is the Nisbets plot which looks 35-40 storeys and then the next 2 are the monaco house towers that are 29 n 25 storeys n then the final yellow outlined one on the right must be st lukes n looks about 20 storeys.


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## Ppmb80 (Jul 30, 2015)

Yes apologies it was me being a dimwit! Getting my left and right mixed up very sorry !! I thought this one was the 2 towers furthest to the RIGHT.

If the furthest to the right is st Luke's have we seen planning app for this yet ?

The other 2 as you suggest look real biggies !!


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

[/QUOTE]



This diagram comes form the former Kent Street Baths site so the building outlined in red is the tallest on that site which is 19 storeys.

The tallest of the blocks outlined in yellow is the Holloway Circus plot which could well be 50 storeys in that diagram. The next one along is probably on the corner of Bromsgrove Street. I'm guessing it would be around 35 storeys.

The next two yellow blocks are the pair at New Monaco which are 29 and 25 storeys.

I think the last one we can see outlined in yellow is probably where Bristol Street Motors is. I think it's too far up Bristol Street to be the St Lukes site, especially if you compare it to where the current Park Central phase is on the diagram (the curved block in the bottom right hand corner). My guess is that it is about 20 storeys, which might suggest we'll be getting something more around 15- 17 storeys at St Lukes.

Two other things I've noticed. The recently approved 18 storey block on the corner of Essex Street isn't shown here and no one's mentioned the Smithfield block standing all alone on the far right.


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## BlackCountryAl (May 16, 2013)

I reckon the Holloway circus tower could be the third to top 140 metres if that visual is correct, I don't know about 150m though. Considering that Beetham is 32 metres taller than the sentinels at 122m, though on lower ground which i'd hazard a guess is around 10m, that'd still make it 22 metres taller at the top. And in that visual, the height difference between the new one and Beetham looks greater than Beetham is taller than the Sentinels. So it looks like it could be at least another 20m above Beetham and then some. Here's hoping!


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## Bureau des etrangers (Jan 17, 2009)

^^ I like your working out mate. I tried to do something similar in my head but your way seems much more accurate.


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## Storeys (Oct 21, 2013)

Personally I like no 1.

All I can say is, thank goodness Monaco House is being knocked down and thank goodness this area of the city is being redeveloped.


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## Bureau des etrangers (Jan 17, 2009)

Storeys said:


> All I can say is, thank goodness Monaco House is being knocked down and thank goodness this area of the city is being redeveloped.


From that image that is doing the rounds, it seems as though there will be quite a bit of height along Bristol street if all the developments go ahead. Shows just how short sighted the etap design was.


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## Fidget808 (Mar 16, 2016)

This looks ok. Certainly better than was what there before. So many resi units coming to the market all at once. It will be interesting to see how they all work out.

And, without wanting to put a downer on things, I wouldn't read too much in to the hypothetical taller towers they are showing on other the plots. That's just these guys showing what the current planning framework might allow in these sites. It all helps in justifying their own proposals to the planners. I guess the good news however is that if this des go ahead, then it might inspire others....


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## Sandblast (Jun 17, 2008)

Very 'Salford-esque'.


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## daniboy173 (Jan 20, 2016)

Is that what we are aspiring to? Great!


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## Mosleyan (Nov 7, 2017)

If we keep building these, maybe one day Birmingham will be known as the 'Woking of Midlands'


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## ReissOmari (Sep 7, 2009)

Absolutely crazy to think I started this thread over 3 years ago and we were getting a two storey Tesco Extra on such a prime site, here I am now posting the new application for 2 towers at 26 and 29 storeys! So glad the Tesco plan fell through!

Planning app now officially in, great end to the year!



> Application Number *2017/10551/PA*
> Application Type Full Planning
> Site Address Land at former Monaco House site Bristol Street Birmingham B5 7AS
> Proposal *Erection of new mixed use development of between 5 and 10 storeys high plus two towers of 29 + 26 storeys to include 1009 residential units (C3), a residential hub (705sqm) , 1513sqm of retail/commercial use (A1-A5,D1), car parking, new public walkway, landscaping and all associated works*


 

https://eplanning.birmingham.gov.uk...orer/SiteFiles/Skins/Birmingham/Menus/PL.xmlk


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## Birmingham (May 29, 2007)

Seems as if we got option 1 although the rear looks a bit different to it's active frontages.


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## joshwebb (Jan 6, 2010)

option 6 looked generous.


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## Bureau des etrangers (Jan 17, 2009)

Thank you Reiss.


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## B78 (Dec 7, 2017)

joshwebb said:


> option 6 looked generous.


Can you post a photo? My phone doesn’t allow me access.

Fingers crossed this sails through planning without a hitch.


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## joshwebb (Jan 6, 2010)

B78 said:


> Can you post a photo? My phone doesn’t allow me access.
> 
> Fingers crossed this sails through planning without a hitch.


https://flic.kr/p/21Db4N9


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## daumal (May 26, 2010)

Chilling to consider how close we came to seeing a Tesco superstore here.


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## Kingsheathen (Jan 17, 2012)




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## Storeys (Oct 21, 2013)

I think this will be great. A really good gateway into the city. I really like the look of what seem like warehouse style mid-rises.


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## Bureau des etrangers (Jan 17, 2009)

daumal said:


> Chilling to consider how close we came to seeing a Tesco superstore here.


Agreed, but also shows the lost opportunity at the Morrisons Five Ways site. Then again, we have to shop somewhere I guess.


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## sefton66 (Sep 26, 2009)

^^ Morrison’s five ways MSCP looks far too bulky to support just itself, do we know if it was built to futureproof for a building on top? Certainly seems overengineered for a 3 storey MSCP


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## BlackCountryAl (May 16, 2013)

Is it difficult to get Morrisons demolished now then?


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## sefton66 (Sep 26, 2009)

BlackCountryAl said:


> Is it difficult to get Morrisons demolished now then?


Doubt it, they’d have more than madethe money back from the construction costs by now I’d imagine, sure they’d sell up to a new development, given the opportunity to anchor a new unit at the base of a few hundred apartments with customers literally above their doorstep :lol:...


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## Internal Exile (Nov 19, 2017)

Bureau des etrangers said:


> Agreed, but also shows the lost opportunity at the Morrisons Five Ways site. Then again, we have to shop somewhere I guess.




I completely agree. When you look at the plans which Calthorpe Estate had for Five Ways, and then what we’ve ended up with, I could weep. 

Clearly after the crash they lost confidence in their original proposals and just wanted to get an occupier...any occupier. But in the light of all that’s happened since, and the forthcoming Metro extension, it now looks like a massive wasted opportunity. 

(Sorry for going off topic.)


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## sefton66 (Sep 26, 2009)

My guess is garden square wouldn’t be happening had they either not developed or had developed the Morrison’s site


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## Bureau des etrangers (Jan 17, 2009)

Is the other office building coming down soon?


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

^^ Yes. The other office block and the multi-storey car park should both be down by mid-March 2018.


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## markmcd1976 (Oct 25, 2007)

Internal Exile said:


> I completely agree. When you look at the plans which Calthorpe Estate had for Five Ways, and then what we’ve ended up with, I could weep.
> 
> Clearly after the crash they lost confidence in their original proposals and just wanted to get an occupier...any occupier. But in the light of all that’s happened since, and the forthcoming Metro extension, it now looks like a massive wasted opportunity.
> 
> (Sorry for going off topic.)


Which everyone on here said at the time.


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## ReissOmari (Sep 7, 2009)

From D&A Statement. So many different designs around the site, all sound/look quality.


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## sefton66 (Sep 26, 2009)

Ford garage needs a new home gonna look out of place with this and st Luke’s

Maybe a move to pebble mill could be an option? If not at the base of a new apartment block


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## ReissOmari (Sep 7, 2009)

sefton66 said:


> Ford garage needs a new home gonna look out of place with this and st Luke’s
> 
> Maybe a move to pebble mill could be an option? If not at the base of a new apartment block


Agreed, although it would be a shame to lose Bristol Street Motors on Bristol Street :lol:

They could definitely work at the base of a apartment block though, for example the BMW/MINI dealership on Park Lane London (albeit an older building)


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

Some new plans added to the planning app today including both typical lower and upper residential plans, as well as car parking and where commercial units are to be located. Worth a look - 2017/10551/PA.


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

A report is being issued to the planning committee about this site so that they can raise any concerns they may have with it, presumably at the next meeting on 18th Jan. Hopefully, any issues they do have can be dealt with quickly so the application can proceed with some level of certainty.


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## 916646 (May 14, 2014)

they were clearing the site up today & gradually backfilling the trenches with clean soil

Not shown here


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## 916646 (May 14, 2014)

They've unearthed an old subway underpass here . I can't remember there being one. When was it filled in?


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## lammy82 (Sep 11, 2016)

PerpetualBrum said:


> They've unearthed an old subway underpass here . I can't remember there being one. When was it filled in?


I can't see any evidence of this. On this corner there is just a big pile of rubble behind the Heras fencing. Are you sure you're not seeing this one, further along towards the bus stop? https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.4...4!1s95Zd28m5RHmfBEym0W1fyw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


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## ReissOmari (Sep 7, 2009)

I'm assuming they were filled in when the pedestrian crossings were installed.. Early 2000s maybe? Google Earth History may be able to help


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## lammy82 (Sep 11, 2016)

There are three pedestrian subways along this stretch of road: one at Great Colmore Street / Bromsgrove Street (still in use, here), one that was in front of Monaco House's entrance (now sealed off with Heras fencing, located here), and another on the other side of Bristol Street Motors (now blocked off since the latest Park Central phase, located here). And a vehicle tunnel which is also blocked off, here. I highly doubt there were ever any more.


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## 916646 (May 14, 2014)

Overall, this was widely praised in the Issues Report meeting, "it's big, bold and fab" "the right scale, the right design and in the right place” ...but they were all scathing at the total lack of affordable housing & any community centre/hub. Barry Henley said at the end that "there's not a cat in hell’s chance of approval without some community benefit". So the developers will go away the those comments ringing in their ears


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## Sandblast (Jun 17, 2008)

*Community Centre*????? Who goes to a Community Centre these days??!! This isn't 1978, it's 2018! Everyone is locked in their bedrooms on smart phones or iPads all the time, boring everyone to death on facebook or something similar!!!

They need to come up with something a bit more imaginative than a Community Centre, that will fall in to disrepair as no-one will use it.


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## 916646 (May 14, 2014)

bigger pic than the community centre Sandblast lol, like other community spin offs like allowing access to facilities. As things stand, there's no affordable housing or any .106 contributions etc. They'll just generate sh*****s of profit to no benefit to the wider community. That's what they're generally peeved with. Sure it's just a bargaining tool


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## SMUK86 (Jun 30, 2017)

PerpetualBrum said:


> bigger pic than the community centre Sandblast lol, like other community spin offs like allowing access to facilities. As things stand, there's no affordable housing or any .106 contributions etc. They'll just generate sh*****s of profit to no benefit to the wider community. That's what they're generally peeved with. Sure it's just a bargaining tool


More than likely they will just add a S106 agreement and offsite affordable housing contribution prior to the application reaching the committee which will be at least a few months away yet.


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## Kingsheathen (Jan 17, 2012)

PerpetualBrum said:


> bigger pic than the community centre Sandblast lol, like other community spin offs like allowing access to facilities. As things stand, there's no affordable housing or any .106 contributions etc. They'll just generate sh*****s of profit to no benefit to the wider community. That's what they're generally peeved with. Sure it's just a bargaining tool




The benefits to the wider community is that a derelict site gets turned into an excellent looking new neighbourhood. 

It is on a key gateway to the city centre and will greatly change visitor's perceptions and opinions of our city. This could lead to significant further investment across Greater Birmingham (which is where the local community live). 

I believe commercial units are planned which will eventually contain businesses that will employ and be used by the local community. 

The developer will provide homes which are needed. The local community will have the option to buy or rent them. 

The additional residents will spend their money in the area. This will encourage more shops, restaurants, cafes and other businesses to open locally, providing more job and leisure opportunities for the local community. 

I'm not saying that the council shouldn't try and negotiate section 106 money and social housing. They should. I'm just saying that there are benefits to the local community anyway. 

This development is surrounded on three sides by large amounts of social housing. This area needs more private housing to address the imbalance.

Large areas of social housing doesn't work. You get the 'sink estate' effect. This has already happened in this area and they've had to demolish social housing as a result. 

If this development didn't go ahead because of a lack of social housing and a community centre I'd be gutted. Surely I'm a member of the local community?


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## DE51GNR (Apr 8, 2008)

Sandblast said:


> Everyone is locked in their bedrooms on smart phones or iPads all the time, boring everyone to death on facebook *or something similar!!!*


Err,.........skyscrapercity.com??????

:runaway:


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## citywatcher01 (Jun 17, 2016)

Odd how this is widely praised, and yet Port Loop wasn't. The tower element wouldn't look out of place in a Sao Paulo slum tbf....the low rise stuff is OK, but 'big, bold and fab' is a little hyperbolic even for the committee. They are consistently inconsistent....


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## markmcd1976 (Oct 25, 2007)

I think they are comparing it to what has just been demolished on the site. The very worst of 1960s architecture.


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

citywatcher01 said:


> *Odd how this is widely praised, and yet Port Loop wasn't. *The tower element wouldn't look out of place in a Sao Paulo slum tbf....the low rise stuff is OK, but 'big, bold and fab' is a little hyperbolic even for the committee. They are consistently inconsistent....





Yep I was surprised that they liked the development as much as they did. As you say citywatcher, a complete turnaround from their views on IPL. Maybe Joe Holyoak's article late last year on the planning committee's inability to understand the IPL proposals has hit its mark. 

Personally, I think it's great to see proposals like this coming forward for the city. I hope it's the first of many.


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## Ppmb80 (Jul 30, 2015)

Do we formally know if this was approved today ? and if so if a start date was published...


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## junxs (Jan 1, 2018)

What do they mean exactly by "affordable housing"? is this a code word for council flats?
Or does it mean its lower priced for first time buyers? or do the designers have to physically make a few flats smaller sized with worse facilities and yucky flowery 70s style wallpaper to make them more affordable? Its always confused my when I read about affordable housing in new developments


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## 916646 (May 14, 2014)

Ppmb80 said:


> Do we formally know if this was approved today ? and if so if a start date was published...


Yep! It was formally approved Ppmb.



> Estates Gazette: MCR Property Group has received planning permission for its 1,009-home scheme on the site of Birmingham’s Monaco House complex. Named New Monaco, the £275m scheme on the seven-acre site on Bristol Street will include 11 apartment blocks and two towers of 26 and 29 storeys. Ninety-two of the apartments will be for affordable rent. Chris Taylor, fund manager at MCR Property Group, said: “Investment in Birmingham’s Southside area has become vital to improving the levels of high-quality housing stock in the city. “Receiving the go-ahead for our New Monaco development means we can provide much-needed homes


Pegasus Group who are acting as a consultant on the project confirmed it too.
https://www.pegasusgroup.co.uk/planning-approved-monaco-house-birmingham-urban-village/


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

sefton66 said:


> Construction due to start end of the year if approved completion 2023!





FAO Ppmb80


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## djay (Jan 8, 2008)

junxs said:


> What do they mean exactly by "affordable housing"? is this a code word for council flats?
> Or does it mean its lower priced for first time buyers? or do the designers have to physically make a few flats smaller sized with worse facilities and yucky flowery 70s style wallpaper to make them more affordable? Its always confused my when I read about affordable housing in new developments


There are a few different types of affordable housing. There is a definition that I cannot be bothered to find but it is something like housing that costs less than a 1/3rd of the median income and houses priced below 250k. Or something.

Affordable housing usually comes in a few forms... social rent (not necessarily Council housing but this is the closest equivalent), intermediate housing (reduced market rent provided it is no more than 80% of market rent, starter homes, discount market again less that 80%, key worker, equity loans etc). 

The Council carry out a study every few years to work out the affordable need and should dictate to the developer what kind of affordable tenures should be included in any scheme unless there is robust justification... usually there never is robust justification and they just provide what the Council want.

Also to answer the second part of the question, affordable housing should be tenure blind... this means they shouldn’t be distinguishable from market sale. Generally you can tell by the type of parking it has (a little tip for you).

It is often said that social housing is built to a better standard than market houses, as there will be an agreement with the affordable housing landlord as to the spec affordable housing should meet. You might find in generally that “nice to haves” are dropped on affordable housing like en suits and a garage. In flats there might not be a balcony. Room sizes are usually always a minimum for the amount of people that the developer can get away with unless you are going up in price bracket significantly. So you don’t tend to see a difference in room sizes between market 1 bed or an affordable 1bed unless there are site specific reasons.


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## Ppmb80 (Jul 30, 2015)

PerpetualBrum said:


> Yep! It was formally approved Ppmb.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Excellent news...


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## Ppmb80 (Jul 30, 2015)

RalphGuy said:


> FAO Ppmb80


Thanks.

Wondered if this had been firmed up or reconfirmed today that was all.


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

No idea to be honest but Sefton's post I quoted was from last week I think.


That said, I don't put too much stock in when developers say they're going to start building. They're rarely accurate with their start dates.


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## SMUK86 (Jun 30, 2017)

Well it would be good if this, Connaught and Bloc started H1 2019 as the pipeline is looking pretty dry at the moment for next year.


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## junxs (Jan 1, 2018)

djay said:


> There are a few different types of affordable housing. There is a definition that I cannot be bothered to find but it is something like housing that costs less than a 1/3rd of the median income and houses priced below 250k. Or something.
> 
> Affordable housing usually comes in a few forms... social rent (not necessarily Council housing but this is the closest equivalent), intermediate housing (reduced market rent provided it is no more than 80% of market rent, starter homes, discount market again less that 80%, key worker, equity loans etc).
> 
> ...


Thank you, that's cleared things up for me quite a bit.


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## Ppmb80 (Jul 30, 2015)

Great Arial view here on this link....shows the shear size of this site...I really like it and a nice bit of height and density ...no doubt more towers could follow along Bristol road....

http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/westmidlands/news/2020482-1000-homes-scheme-approved-birmingham-city-centre?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=WestMidlands_17th_Aug_2018_Daily


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## ReissOmari (Sep 7, 2009)

^^

Will look even better with Kent Street Baths next door.


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## Ppmb80 (Jul 30, 2015)

ReissOmari said:


> ^^
> 
> Will look even better with Kent Street Baths next door.


Indeed it will exciting times....


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## ROYAL BLUE (Dec 22, 2004)

ReissOmari said:


> ^^
> 
> Will look even better with Kent Street Baths next door.


Blimey, thats a great Photo.

It's easy to forget just how much redevelopment is planned for the area visible there.

With all eyes on Arena Central, Paradise, 103 Colmore and Broad Street, it's easy to forget how much is happening across the CBD.


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

The final agenda report says that the 92 private affordable rent units will be 20% less than market rent units.


Also, I was looking back at some of the news articles about the site when the planning app went in last December. They were saying then that construction would start the end of 2018 with completion being 2023. It seems the more recent articles might just be repeating that rather than any new up-to-date info. We shall see.


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## Ppmb80 (Jul 30, 2015)

RalphGuy said:


> The final agenda report says that the 92 private affordable rent units will be 20% less than market rent units.
> 
> 
> Also, I was looking back at some of the news articles about the site when the planning app went in last December. They were saying then that construction would start the end of 2018 with completion being 2023. It seems the more recent articles might just be repeating that rather than any new up-to-date info. We shall see.


Yes I would imagine this will be a 2019 start but Id be happy with that personally...


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## Ppmb80 (Jul 30, 2015)

Do we know will this be built in phases or all in one go....


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## RalphGuy (Mar 26, 2015)

Hopefully, the first half of 2019 rather than the second half but I will be happy to see them start it sometime next year (as long as they finish it in good time).


I'm guessing it will be built in phases but not sure in which order.


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## ReissOmari (Sep 7, 2009)

I'm shocked nobody has mentioned Nova House, it's no more!! It's all gone!


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## Bureau des etrangers (Jan 17, 2009)

ReissOmari said:


> I'm shocked nobody has mentioned Nova House, it's no more!! It's all gone!


I think we're all trying to forget it was ever there.


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## ellbrown (Mar 13, 2010)

Noticed cars parked on the land, with the demolition rubble behind that has not been removed!


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## ReissOmari (Sep 7, 2009)

Ell mate, you really gotta stop bumping threads with no news!


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## ellbrown (Mar 13, 2010)

Just reporting what I saw from the bus. But not worth taking a photo of the cars! Waste of the land, doing nothing there for months on end!


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## ReissOmari (Sep 7, 2009)

I know buddy, but should have popped it into the Brum development thread, just so people don't get their hopes up of work starting or something. 

It was reported before that Ford are using part of the site to store cars (I don't understand how this passes H&S tbh)


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## BABYCAKES (Feb 8, 2006)

One person's legitimate comment is another's 'bumping' of a thread. How about we read someone's comment and move on.. chill out


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## ReissOmari (Sep 7, 2009)

ok


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## nigeman (Oct 3, 2007)

Tiny bump :slap:...Site clearance as recommenced, plenty of activity on site this morning


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## Brum X (Mar 5, 2007)




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## ReissOmari (Sep 7, 2009)

Demolition started over a year ago on this now, I'd like to know people's views on the developers? I really hope this project isn't a flop..

If it is, it's a huge space for Pride next year lol


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## sefton66 (Sep 26, 2009)

Wouldn’t be surprised for them to sell on to another developer to actually complete

No doubt there’s been problems in the demolition but they haven’t been in a rush to get construction started but equally they haven’t rushed to get it opened as a car park so I guess that’s a good sign :lol:


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## Brum X (Mar 5, 2007)

ReissOmari said:


> Demolition started over a year ago on this now, I'd like to know people's views on the developers? I really hope this project isn't a flop..
> 
> If it is, it's a huge space for Pride next year lol


103 Colmore Row comes to mind though Reiss, not that i want to keep barking on about 103CR but we were all saying similar things and a few of us were not very confident that developer would deliver and they have. :cheers:

Some projects just seem to take ages for some reason, the same with the other development across the road in Southside where the old gym still has not been demolished off Bromsgrove street, so whats the hold up with that one too ??


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## fruit&nut (Jul 18, 2006)

Don’t forget that the developers are having to borrow tens of millions of pounds to fund these developments and the negotiations and agreement of commercial terms will be complicated and time consuming. They’ve got to compile land packages, negotiate the ends of existing lease agreements (the petrol station), fund and agree terms for demolition and then fund the design, agree terms for the funding of the buildings in an ever changing commercial market and economy (ecomomic factors such as the B word influence lenders willingness to part with cash) and procure a contractor in a sellers market. Plenty to do.

I agree some developers take far too long and sit on sites for asset value on the balance sheet (Arena Central being one example), but I think this lot are doing okay on the whole.


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## SMUK86 (Jun 30, 2017)

It didn’t fill me with confidence when the same group proposed such a small scale and cheap conversion of lonsdale house on Blucher Street, trying to cram as many studios as possible into a small building, rather than a demo and bringing a high quality development to the table. It smacks of trying to make a quick buck rather than that of a high quality developer who cares about their reputation and has backing and deep pockets.


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## sefton66 (Sep 26, 2009)

I may be wrong

But I’m pretty sure they’ve started putting up wooden hoardings closest to the Bristol st student complex today...


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## ReissOmari (Sep 7, 2009)

Don't even! Because this time last year they halted work and dipped for 6 months. Jokers :lol:


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## sefton66 (Sep 26, 2009)

Anyone confirm? :lol:

I’m sure there was people working past 5 tonight putting wooden beams up on the fencing ready to board over with permanent hoardings?

I’ve looked back in the thread and the metal fence hasn’t got any wood attached???


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## nigeman (Oct 3, 2007)

sefton66 said:


> I may be wrong
> 
> But I’m pretty sure they’ve started putting up wooden hoardings closest to the Bristol st student complex today...


^^
Finally.... a decent perimeter for the surface level car park, its taken forever..:lol::lol::lol:

..... be great if this really was starting though! some tentative signs on several sites for a healthy start to 2019.


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## JayPeeDee (Jan 27, 2007)

Shit! I completely forgot the potential this has to be a huge car park. Bring it on!


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## sefton66 (Sep 26, 2009)

I can confirm we have a more permanent timber hoarding going up

They did state a start end of the year...


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## brumborn (Jan 15, 2013)

Around 50 cars parked on this site this morning when I was driving past.


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