# IM Pei’s other BOC (If you like BOC, you may want to see this)



## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

WANCH said:


> Looking at the other pictures, the design looks stranger and fatter compared to HK's BoC.


From the renderings, it's quite obvious BDNI has a fatter structure.


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## indistad (Apr 21, 2004)

I didn't know Gadjah Tunggal was the one that wanted to build this structure. Gadjah Tunggal was mainly a wheel manufacturing company (GT Tires) but I think they've diversified now. Its still a healthy company, so maybe they'd decide in the future.. 

As for BDNI (Bank Dagang Negara Indonesia), it didn't survive the crisis, was declared bankrupt and no longer exists.


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## godblessbotox (Jan 3, 2006)

i like it


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## Erebus555 (Apr 21, 2006)

I like it but I am against it being built. I think it would pretty much rob some of the grandeur and originality the BOC has.


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## Joe_centennial (Sep 6, 2005)

^^^ I agree. IMHO They should render the design albeit cos the current design looks too similar to that of BOC. It lacks originality. I personally wouldnt want to hear other ppl from diff nations saying that BDNI Centre is a 'copycat' or sum sort. Make the window tint gold instead.


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## hala (Jul 18, 2004)

Joe_centennial said:


> ^^^ I agree. IMHO They should render the design albeit cos the current design looks too similar to that of BOC. It lacks originality. I personally wouldnt want to hear other ppl from diff nations saying that BDNI Centre is a 'copycat' or sum sort. Make the window tint gold instead.


But both of them are IM Pei’s design. Like I have never heard people say that the Disney Music Hall in LA is a copycat of Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao.


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## Erebus555 (Apr 21, 2006)

^^I have. Disney are actually being threatened with legal action over it. Do not know the full details of it though.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

indistad said:


> I didn't know Gadjah Tunggal was the one that wanted to build this structure. Gadjah Tunggal was mainly a wheel manufacturing company (GT Tires) but I think they've diversified now. Its still a healthy company, so maybe they'd decide in the future..
> 
> As for BDNI (Bank Dagang Negara Indonesia), it didn't survive the crisis, was declared bankrupt and no longer exists.


Unless someone revitalize the project and convert it instead to a office complex. 

As with the originality concept, yes it can be a BoC copycat but it's still the same architect.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

I don't like how this Pei design is being re-used, just like Pelli's IFC and Jersey City cousin. Is architecture becoming a commodity of globalization as well?


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## hala (Jul 18, 2004)

Pei himself said that he does NOT like the idea of having a “signature design” like Frank Gehry does. Every design should be determine by the environment and culture. Actually, as you can see, every Pei’s design is unique. Doesn’t like Gehry, he doesn’t apply same idealology, same structure, or same color scheme to more than one project. You can hardly find his “signture” in his designs, except for the geometric structure which is also used by many other architects. *He explained that the reason that he untilzed the BOC structure on this project is because of the perfection and efficiency of the newly invented geometric structure.* Perhaps the utilization of the basic triangular structure are similar to the BOC, but *the project’s general layout and even the detail design, such as the entrances and the driveway, are very much different form the BOC.*


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

hala said:


> Pei himself said that he does NOT like the idea of having a “signature design” like Frank Gehry does. Every design should be determine by the environment and culture. Actually, as you can see, every Pei’s design is unique. Doesn’t like Gehry, he doesn’t apply same idealology, same structure, or same color scheme to more than one project. You can hardly find his “signture” in his designs, except for the geometric structure which is also used by many other architects. *He explained that the reason that he untilzed the BOC structure on this project is because of the perfection and efficiency of the newly invented geometric structure.* Perhaps the utilization of the basic triangular structure are similar to the BOC, but *the project’s general layout and even the detail design, such as the entrances and the driveway, are very much different form the BOC.*


One thing about the BoC is that, the building was built on a *hillslope* or near it. The ground floor of the BoC have waterways on the side. 










Jakarta's layout is flat kinda like Houston. But the building is on a triangular position kinda in the google earth map.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

The drop in elevation on BoC's site is very mild - only about 1-2 stories. The slopes get much steepier further out around the cathedral. The Centre and Hopewell Centre both have much more dramatic elevation changes between the front and the back.


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

I like it, but it's a bit less exciting compared to HK's. Hopefully it'll still be built.


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## ryanr (Sep 11, 2002)

Erebus555 said:


> I like it but I am against it being built. I think it would pretty much rob some of the grandeur and originality the BOC has.


I agree.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

samsonyuen said:


> I like it, but it's a bit less exciting compared to HK's. Hopefully it'll still be built.


Honestly I find the complex interesting. Its pretty interesting to see how I.M. Pei would remodel the same style and idea used for BoC and create a new skyscraper. Plus how this kind of style is used in a complex with not just one but two buildings.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

That's Gehry-style laziness.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

What if the BDNI wanted something of a BoC look and are willing to pay I.M. Pei billions of rupiah for it?


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

WANCH said:


> What if the BDNI wanted something of a BoC look and are willing to pay I.M. Pei billions of rupiah for it?


I doubt Pei is willing to sacrifice his creative integrity for the sake of a few dollars, especially since he has such international stature. I'd hope he's doing all this work out of interest rather than purely selling out to the next highest bidder.

Clients don't always rule. The architect can refuse.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

hkskyline said:


> I doubt Pei is willing to sacrifice his creative integrity for the sake of a few dollars, especially since he has such international stature. I'd hope he's doing all this work out of interest rather than purely selling out to the next highest bidder.
> 
> Clients don't always rule. The architect can refuse.


That's the advantage of being *famous*  But Pei created the concept and design for BDNI. But I still think he played around with the BoC style and created something new.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

WANCH said:


> That's the advantage of being *famous*  But Pei created the concept and design for BDNI. But I still think he played around with the BoC style and created something new.


I also look at the urban context to evaluate whether there is a reason for these architectural similarities. From Pei's website, he emphasized a grand plaza concept for BDNI in the heart of Jakarta, which was definitely not the case in the BoC design. However, the gap remains why did he wanted to present a BoC-style design and why the client would want that? Did the bank have a business relationship with the BoC?


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