# 2018 Winter Olympics / XXIII Olympic Winter Games bids



## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Pyeongchang, South Korea should get it. They had a very strong bid in 2010, and the Games have only been outside Europe and North America twice. Both of these were hosted by Japan. After that, I'd like it to go to Finland, possibly Sweden.


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

The 2018 Winter Olympics, officially known as the XXIII Olympic Winter Games, will be celebrated in 2018.

Bids declared by referring NOC:

Pyeongchang, South Korea
After narrowly losing twice in bidding for the 2010 and 2014 Winter Olympics, Governor Jin-sun Kim of Gangwon Province announced in September 2007 that Pyeongchang will definitely bid a third time.

Munich, Germany
Munich hosted the 1972 Summer Olympics, and would be the first city to host both the Summer and Winter Games. Berlin and Hamburg were considering of a summer games bid for 2024 or 2028, but the German Olympic Committee is putting the Munich bid first. With Salzburg's failure to capture the 2014 bid, Germany feels it has a better chance and would prefer the Olympics sooner rather than later.Munich has a strong ally with IOC vice president Thomas Bach (speculated to succeed IOC president Jacques Rogge), who could swing the vote to Munich, even though the 2014 Games will have been held in Europe as well.Nevertheless, Munich is already considering a bid for 2022 if this bid fails.The slogan of the game is "Die Spiele im Herzen" (The games in the heart).

Annecy, France
At first, the French Olympic Committee (CNOSF) was quite reluctant in bidding for a Winter Games, preferring to focus on a bid for the 2024 Summer Olympics. However, four cities (Annecy, Grenoble, Nice and Pelvoux) expressed interest in hosting the 2018 games. On September 24, 2008, the Olympic Committee announced it had granted these wishes and would bid in 2011. Annecy was elected as the official candidate city by the French NOC on March 18, 2009


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

I think the fact the London will host 2012 and Sochi will host 2014 will mean Europe won't get 2018. Third time lucky for Pyeonchang?


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

RobH said:


> Third time lucky for Pyeonchang?


They only lost the 2010 Olympics by the slimmest of margins. A return to Asia is long over due.


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## boyerling3 (Jun 1, 2009)

I think Pyeonchang's chances could be raised since quite a few of the other big players are looking for summer games like France for 2024, possibly US would get 2016 giving Asia a better chance. I don't know about Munich though, obviously Sochi is classified as Europe but it is sort of central Asia isn't it? I think by 2018 the IOC would be ready to return to asia if they don't choose Tokyo for 2016. What about New Zealand or Chile? They might be interesting locations to bring the winter games to new areas.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

Asia has been under-represented for the Winter Games in general. The facilities are quite specialized and perhaps winter sports are not as popular here than in the West. I was quite surprised how strong Pyeongchang came when they first bid, as they were first regarded as a no-chance participant. They really gave a run on Vancouver!


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

boyerling3 said:


> What about New Zealand or Chile? They might be interesting locations to bring the winter games to new areas.


The Southern Hemisphere is a new frontier, though I doubt the Winter Sports elites (Northern Hemisphere nations) would warrant an Olympics held in say June-September, or the Southern Hemisphere's Winter Season (However one cannot truly know if a nation from the Southern Hemisphere does not make a bid).

New Zealand can host in either Queenstown (Using Treble Cone at nearby Wanaka for Men's Downhill (as it has the necessary vertical drop of 800-1100 meters), or a joint Queenstown-Dunedin bid (With most ice events in Dunedin), or Christchurch (Though you need to add additional vertical at mountains nearby Mount Hutt, as there is insufficient for Men's Downhill).

Chile can easily host with Santiago, the capital. There is sufficient mountains and slopes that meet the requirements to host Men's Downhill.

Argentina can also potentially host, provided that the slopes are of required vertical.

Australia, though unlikely, could theoretically host with the Perisher Blue region and perhaps joining with Canberra. Assuming of course, there's a mountain in the area that can either be topped, or lowered to make the necessary vertical drop for Men's Downhill.

Simply put, I see only 3 nations with the capabilities of hosting, with Australia being a remote possibility.


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## dacrio (Jan 30, 2009)

i think pyeongchang at 75%-
it depends obviously from the decision for 2016


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## Vermeer (Apr 23, 2007)

Lord David said:


> The Southern Hemisphere is a new frontier, though I doubt the Winter Sports elites (Northern Hemisphere nations) would warrant an Olympics held in say June-September, or the Southern Hemisphere's Winter Season (However one cannot truly know if a nation from the Southern Hemisphere does not make a bid).
> 
> New Zealand can host in either Queenstown (Using Treble Cone at nearby Wanaka for Men's Downhill (as it has the necessary vertical drop of 800-1100 meters), or a joint Queenstown-Dunedin bid (With most ice events in Dunedin), or Christchurch (Though you need to add additional vertical at mountains nearby Mount Hutt, as there is insufficient for Men's Downhill).
> 
> ...


There is no interest for winter sports in those countries, so why should they get it? Money will be a huge issue. The Winter Olympics are paid by European and Northern American TV channels and I doubt they will pay much for Winter Olympics broadcasted during the summer. 95 % of the Athletes with any winning chances will come from the Northern Hemisphere and I doubt they will be too happy to turn the season.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Vermeer said:


> There is no interest for winter sports in those countries, so why should they get it? Money will be a huge issue. The Winter Olympics are paid by European and Northern American TV channels and I doubt they will pay much for Winter Olympics broadcasted during the summer. 95 % of the Athletes with any winning chances will come from the Northern Hemisphere and I doubt they will be too happy to turn the season.


That's all true, but I hope it's not a permanent situation for eternity. I'd like to see a Winter Olympics in the southern hemisphere in my life time. I'd also like to see southern hemisphere nations do better in winter sports. Australia is a great example of a nation with no winter sports history, and a warm climate, that took winning medals in winter sports seriously for the first time about 15 years ago. 

They've now won medals at the last 3 Winter Olympics. If they can do it, so can New Zealand, Chile, Brazil, Cuba, etc. Half of these sports are indoor sports any way. You don't need cold weather or a mountain to do well. You just need determination.


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## Severiano (Jul 5, 2006)

Pyeongchang 2018 ! Poor things they lost twice in a row with very good bids. Plus, 2018 will be 20 years since Asia last hosted a winter games. I can only remember 1972 and 1998 as being the only Winter Games held in Asia, correct me if I am wrong.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Vermeer said:


> There is no interest for winter sports in those countries, so why should they get it? Money will be a huge issue. The Winter Olympics are paid by European and Northern American TV channels and I doubt they will pay much for Winter Olympics broadcasted during the summer. 95 % of the Athletes with any winning chances will come from the Northern Hemisphere and I doubt they will be too happy to turn the season.


Well aside those facts let's see:
There's reasonable interest for the Winter Olympics in Australia, but we won't host because we don't have the mountain heights. As for NZ and Chile, it's a chance to promote the country, develop Winter Sports in the country and most importantly get a chance for Olympic glory (which is particularly the case for NZ) as they won't likely get a Summer Games.


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## boyerling3 (Jun 1, 2009)

Do y'all think that tv viewership would be higher during June-July in the Northern hemisphere than if the games were January-February? Would it help or hurt the cause depending on when they are held?


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

^^ Unfortunately I would have to say no. I think for most viewers that also going through the sludge of winter makes them identify with the games and the sports during the winter months. To watch downhill skiing or bob sled in July just seems misplaced to most people. Kind of like if they put Christmas in July during the heat of summer. 

I would be curious what kind of TV ratings in North countries have gotten for competitions taking place in the South in Jun-Aug in comparison to TV ratings of the usual Dec.-Feb. championship season. 



isaidso said:


> They've now won medals at the last 3 Winter Olympics. If they can do it, so can New Zealand, Chile, Brazil, Cuba, etc. Half of these sports are indoor sports any way. You don't need cold weather or a mountain to do well. You just need determination.


 Determination and now ski/ice is going to allow you to cross country ski, downhill sky, and luge? May as well put in Toronto or Chicago for the winter games because all it needs is determination to carry off the downhill.


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

No. I don't think that winter sports would be able to attract more viewers in summer. 
The problem with games in the Southern hemisphere is that it would mean that the games are completely off-season. Athletes can't relax in summer but would have to keep up tension during the whole year and several months after the end of the world cup-season (as well as it would be hard to prepare for the next season).

On the other hand, winter games in the Southern hemisphere (especially Australia, New Zealand and Southern America) would be very interesting indeed. Once, the FIS alpine world championship was in Chile afaik.


Regarding the canidates:
Munich is the strongest candidate by far: They have already lots of facilities, the ways between the venues is quite short (compared to Turin or Sotchi), Munich is a city addicted to winter sports and Germany is "the" epicentre of winter sports (in both success of their athletes and viewer attendance/interest). Especially the last point would guarantee great games. The only problem might be the fact that London and Sotchi will hold the Games in 2012 and 2014.

Annecy could be a pretty good host city as well (I'm not totally familiar with their concept), but the last Winter Olympics in France were only in 1994 (Germany 1936!), which could be a negative point. As well, Annecy would counteract the current trend of the IOC to give the games to relatively big cities (Nagano, Turin, Vancouver).

Pyeongchang: Maybe, they have the advantage of bidding for the third time already, and that the last Winter Olympics in Asia were in 1998. On the other hand, the pretty much f**ed up this years' biathlon world championship, where Pyeongchang lacked snow, organization and fan attendance. Big disadvantage imo.


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

Will the Olympic Flag fly in 2018 on the same flag pole like 46 years ago? It would be great for the Olympiastadion and the city of Munich to be the first to host summer AND winter games!


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*China's Harbin may bid for 2018 Winter Games: official *
6 August 2009
Agence France Presse

China's northeast city of Harbin is preparing a bid to host the 2018 Winter Olympics, an event that would come a decade after Beijing held the Summer Games, a top sports official said Thursday.

But neither the city nor the Chinese Olympic Committee have formally announced the intention to bid for the Games, Vice Minister of Sports Cui Dalin told AFP.

"China was capable of successfully hosting a Summer Olympic Games. China is also capable of successfully hosting a Winter Olympic Games," Cui said.

"(Harbin) is interested in bidding again... they are making preparations," he said.

The city, known for its frigid winter weather and its annual ice festival, bid for the 2010 Winter Olympics, but failed to make the final round, which was eventually won by Vancouver, Canada.

Countries have until October 15 to inform the International Olympic Committee of their potential candidates and the cities must submit their final application and guarantees by March 15, 2010.

Harbin still must put forward a bid plan to the State Council, China's cabinet, and seek approval from the Chinese Olympic Committee if it hopes to bid for the 2018 Games, Cui said.

Harbin, a city of over three million people, and its surrounding mountains have served as training grounds for China's winter sports teams for decades.

The German city of Munich, which staged the 1972 Summer Olympics, Pyeongchang in South Korea and the French town of Annecy have so far announced their intention to bid for the 2018 Winter Olympics.

The 2014 Winter Olympics will be held in the Russian resort city of Sochi.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

nomarandlee said:


> Determination and now ski/ice is going to allow you to cross country ski, downhill sky, and luge? May as well put in Toronto or Chicago for the winter games because all it needs is determination to carry off the downhill.


What are you talking about? Who said anything about holding a downhill where no mountain exists? No one. This is about accessibility to a sport for individuals no matter where one lives. Australia doesn't have ski hills of any note, but they produce freestyle skiers who medal. They simply travel to train and do the rest in the gym. If I want to swim, I travel to a swimming pool. If I want to downhill ski, I travel to a downhill ski hill. Why is this a difficult concept to grasp?

If you look at the events at the Winter Olympics, 28 of the 84 events require no snow, or mountain. That's a third of the medals. I've highlighted the events that don't require a cold climate or a mountain. They are indoor sports like basketball. They just require a facility.

Alpine skiing (10)
Biathlon (10)
Bobsleigh (3)
Cross-country skiing (12)
*Curling (2)*
*Figure skating (4)*
Freestyle skiing (4)
*Ice hockey (2)*
Luge (3)
Nordic combined (3)
*Short track speed skating (8)*
Skeleton (2)
Ski jumping (3)
Snowboarding (6)
*Speed skating (12)*

Freestyke skiing isn't on the list and that's Australia's best event. Even the other events contested aren't out of the question for nations like Brazil or the UK. How many Canadians live next to a ski hill? Probably 1% of the population. The rest of us have to travel to them just like the British do. The British actually live closer to Olympic calibre ski hills (the Alps) than most Canadians do. Look at a map.

You mention Toronto and downhill! Well, there are members of Canada's downhill ski team from the Toronto area. If Torontonians can make it to the Olympics in downhill skiing, so can people from Miami, Sao Paolo, or Sydney for that matter. They just need to travel to the ski hills like every one else has to. The idea that they can't compete because no ski mountain exists within their country is a cop out and a lousy excuse. Lack of interest in downhill skiing is what's at play here.


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

^^
More than that it's a lack of training opprtunities. There's only one way to get a world-class ski athlete: Hard training on the hill. If you don't have a hill available, you can't train. It's quite easy, isn't it? The only way would be to move to the mountains at a very young age, and most children won't do so. That's why, lets say, the UK doesn't have world-class skiers (though they have some world cup starters).

Actually, at the indoor disciplines, there's a really wide range of athletes from all over the world. But for the outdoor events, you'll have good athletes typically only when the sport itself is popular within the country, so that there are lots of people which practice it and there's the needed infrastructure. So we're back to the "no snow, no athletes" rule. 

Therefore, there are only a few places in the Southern hemisphere which could hold winter games. I guess the needed drop for alpine downhill is the biggest problem.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

^^^ Which is what Chile, NZ and possibly Argentina only have (NZ being very limited as Treble Cone currently only has the 800 meter vertical drop needed for Men's Downhill).


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

thun said:


> ^^
> More than that it's a lack of training opprtunities. There's only one way to get a world-class ski athlete: Hard training on the hill. If you don't have a hill available, you can't train. *It's quite easy, isn't it?* The only way would be to move to the mountains at a very young age, and most children won't do so. That's why, lets say, the UK doesn't have world-class skiers (though they have some world cup starters).
> 
> Actually, at the indoor disciplines, there's a really wide range of athletes from all over the world. But for the outdoor events, you'll have good athletes typically only when the sport itself is popular within the country, so that there are lots of people which practice it and there's the needed infrastructure. So we're back to the "no snow, no athletes" rule.
> ...


No sport at the elite level is easy. I wouldn't classify it the way you have at all. Every athlete has to go through the same regimen for years and years; this includes traveling to where the facilities/mountains are. This is true of Canadians, British, New Zealanders, etc. 

You're correct that there's more of an obstacle if you have to travel to train, and the training facility is in another nation, but I can't accept the idea that it's as big of an advantage as people make it out to be. Canadian kids who want to pursue skiing don't get to live at home either. They usually have to move thousands of miles from home and follow the competitive tour around where ever that might be.

The biggest reason why nations like Great Britain or Australia don't do well in skiing is because other sports are a bigger priority, the skiing sports systems in these countries aren't developed to the same extent as in other nations, and they aren't funded like other sports are. A young Brit could do everything the young Canadian ski hopeful does, but it won't work unless Britain has the sports system and monetary backing to make it happen in skiing. It's about money, having the sports personnel (coaches, specialists, etc), having a talent pool, etc. Having a mountain in your country is one of the easier ones to solve.

You're also right that success breeds success. Kids get interested and inspired when they see their country men win medals. Sweden and tennis is a perfect example of that phenomenon. Bjorn Borg's success planted the seed. A generation later there were Swedish players all over the place.

I'm fully convinced that nations like Great Britain can do better at winter sports. The biggest problem is getting people to realize that it's not a lack of snow and mountains that's the greatest obstacle. It's that Britain doesn't have a winter sports culture, doesn't fund winter sports, has little in the way of a winter sports structure, and hasn't had much success in winter sports to inspire young Brits into these sports.

If countries can't get past the idea that they can't be successful because they have no snow or mountains, it's a non-starter. Australia seems to have gotten past that mental road block and realized it's the other things that are standing in the way of them being more successful. Sure, you have to pick your battles, but they have, and have had great success in the disciplines they've chosen, thus far. You can't go from A to D without going through B and C first. Hopefully, this is only Australia's first step into taking winter sports success seriously. Maybe next they'll branch out into other non-traditional Australian sports.


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## Vermeer (Apr 23, 2007)

Countries like Canada, USA, Norway, Russia, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Finland, Sweden, Slovenia, Poland, the Czech Republic, Spain, France and Japan all have at least a few million people that can take day trips to ski resorts during the whole winter. That’s why the winter athletes come from these countries. A kid from UK will not take up skiing, because he can only ski once a year, when his rich parents can take him to the Alps for winter vacation. To become a good skier or a good football player you need to be good as a child. If you haven’t learned it as a child, you will never learn it. It would be nice to spread the winter sport to the whole world, but it would be difficult to overcome the climate differences. 

I also think it will be boring if non winter sport nations get to host the winter Olympics. Last Olympics in Turin, Italy was a disaster. No people were interested and in some of the skiing disciplines only 2 – 3 thousands spectators followed the competition. That happened in a country that has a lot of top winter athletes and we can then only imagine how it will be in a country without both interest and athletes.

In 1994 I went to the Winter Olympics in Lillehammer, Norway, primarily to watch our Dutch speed skaters and then I discovered what a fantastic event it could be. I was following my first cross country skiing competition together with 80.000 others. I was following biathlon with 60.000 others and so on and so on. Only a few countries can make Olympics like that and I am afraid that Asia is not ready for it yet.

My favourite is Munich, because the locals are really interested in winter sports and they will make great arenas.


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

I thought about the lack of both a professional sports system in combination with a lack of interest in a dicipline and how this affects athletes:
I guess, Jana and Ivica Kostelic from Croatia are perfect examples of how you can become a world-class athlete without a proper system supporting you. But they had to train for decades first, and they have extraordinary talent. So the two are the exception that proofs the rule.

Still, the problem is: How would a English child decide to become a professinal winter athlete? Because he goes to the Alps for skiing once a year? Surely not, typically you practice a sport way more regular when you decide to go the professional way. So I have to stick to my opinion that the lack of facilities which are really easily acessable determines that there are very few sportsmen in the respective disciplines. The UK has some (mainly) Scottish athletes in the Alpine World Cup from time to time, but they are far from having the number of talents needed in their system to build up some top athletes.


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## Ganis (Jan 3, 2009)

GERMANY!!!!!!


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## Coinpeace (Aug 11, 2009)

I like aisian culture so i vote Pyeonchang.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*Olympics-China's Harbin awaits approval for 2018 Winter bid *

BEIJING, Aug 17 (Reuters) - Harbin is awaiting approval from China's cabinet before launching a bid to host the 2018 Winter Olympics, an official at the city's sports bureau told Reuters.

The northern metropolis of nearly 10 million people, which failed to make the shortlist for the 2010 Games, wants to bring the Olympics back to China a decade after the successful Summer Games in Beijing.

"We are applying for the 2018 Winter Olympics, Harbin wants to host the Games," Li Chunlei, who is working on the bid project, said by telephone.

"But it is under the examination and approval of the State Council and there is still some time to go before the deadline."

The International Olympic Committee (IOC) launched the bid process for the 2018 Games at the end of last month and China has until Oct. 15 to put forward the name of a bid city.

"If we submit our bidding to the IOC before the deadline it means we got approval," Li said. "If we don't, we just don't."

Permission may not be forthcoming, however.

Sports minister Liu Peng, told the Around the Rings website (www.aroundtherings.com) two weeks ago that it would be "difficult" given the strength of the other contenders. South Korea's Pyeongchang is likely to launch its third bid to host Asia's first Winter Olympics outside Japan, while Munich, Geneva and Norway's Tromso are also expected to be in the race.

Harbin invested 3.1 billion yuan ($453.7 million) on building Olympic standard facilities for this year's Winter University Games, including the venue for China's first accredited Alpine skiing downhill race and a snowboarding and biathlon park.

Organisers said only bobsled and luge runs would now need to be built and there remains little doubt it will be the host city when China does hold the Winter Games, even if it is not in 2018.

"The Chinese people are keen to host a Winter Games," China's deputy sports minister Cui Dalin told Reuters recently.

"Harbin, with unique geographical conditions for ice and snow and people who love the winter sports, is enthusiastic about hosting a Winter Olympics.

"I believe they will continue bidding until they win, until China successfully hosts a Winter Olympics."

The 2010 Games take place in Vancouver, Canada, while the Black Sea resort of Sochi will host Russia's first Winter Olympics in 2014.


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

Harbin and Pyeongchang will share the votes of the IOC members, who wants Asia for the 2018 games, advantage Munich ! Annecey has no chance imo.


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## Mr.Underground (Jan 15, 2007)

Any news about te possible bidders?

Gamesbids gives the cities:

*Almaty*, Kazakhstan - (December, 2006 Report) 

*Annecy*, France - (French NOC elected March 18, 2009) 

*Borjomi-Bakuriani *- (NOC President reported July 5, 2007) 

*Bukovel*, Ukraine - (March 19, 2008 Report) 

*Geneva*, Switzerland - (Interest reported by NOC in Dec. 2007 - referendum to be held) 

*Munich*, Germany - (May 26, 2006 Report) 

*PyeongChang*, South Korea - After narrowly losing for 2010 and 2014, the Governor has announced a third bid 

*Sofia*, Bulgaria 

*Ukraine* - November 13, 2006 report 
nbsp;


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Cripes, if Pyeongchang doesn't win this time, they're going to have a nervous break down. :|


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## SOLOMON (May 18, 2005)

München 2018


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## Mr.Underground (Jan 15, 2007)

The deadline for city to present the bids is 15th Oct.

So 15th Oct we will know the list of candidates city.


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## rsol2000 (Mar 19, 2007)

I would like in Bariloche. Rio 2016 and Bariloche 2018:cheers:


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Mr.Underground said:


> The deadline for city to present the bids is 15th Oct.
> 
> So 15th Oct we will know the list of candidates city.


No, it's list of applicants. Simply those that have officially raised their hands, those that do that must then make their applicant bid book following the IOC questionnaire, submit their nonrefundable applicant fee to the IOC. 

Here we go:
*Calendar*

* 31 July 2009 — IOC to officially invite bid applicants from NOCs.
* 15 Oct. 2009 — Application Deadline
* 2-5 Dec. 2009 — Applicant City Seminar - IOC Headquarters - Lausanne, Switzerland
* 15 March 2010 — Application Files Due
* Late-June 2010 — Candidate City Selection
* 11 Jan. 2011 — Submission of candidature files and guarantees
* Feb. - March 2011 — Evaluation Commission Site Visits
* June 2011 — Evaluation Commission Report Released
* 6 July 2011 — Winner Announced at 123rd IOC Session - Durban, South Africa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Olympics

Simply put we got a list of applicants, or those officially willing, once the application files are due, that would be the official list of cities bidding, which will then narrow down to candidate cities as the IOC eliminates cities which it thinks is not ready and publishes a applicant city report.

Basically any city or region that can remotely host, can easily call the IOC or whatever and say that their bidding.


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091014/ap_on_sp_ol/oly2018_china_no_bid
> 
> *No bid from China for 2018 Winter Olympics*
> 
> ...


..


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

I'm a bit shocked that China didn't put forward a bid for the 2018 games. I am also surprised that they didn't think a metro region of nearly ten million has the infrastructure to host it. I think there has to be more political or tactical factors going in deciding not to put forward a bid.

After this news I think Pyeongchang is now the odds on favorite IMO. Hope they get it even though there is likely to be some other good canidates.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

Harbin is a big city, but the Winter Olympic events require very specialized facilities. You can probably build a few arenas quite easily, but a ski jump or downhill ski course are not exactly typical things any large city might have. Don't think skiing in China is even a major past time. It's not very affordable to begin with, but is likely to get more popular as incomes rise.


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

Maybe that's one of the most important factors that lots of winter sports aren't very popular in China? (I don't know if they are or not, but that's what I heard). Another one is probably that in most disciplines (basically, none except figure skating, speed skating and biathlon) Chinese athletes didn't make it to the circle of top athletes. That's especially true for the most prestigious diciplines like Alpine skiing. So they might hope that they'll be able to build up good teams with more time and try an application then. Olympic Winter Games surely wouldn't have the same benefits (in terms of media attention, etc.) than the games of Beijing within China without Chinese athletes in the medal ceremonies.

Anyway, there are only the three cities in the polls which apply now (deadline was today), and I have to stick to my opinion that Munich probably has the best chances and is by far the most attractive applicant city.


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## Mo Rush (Nov 13, 2004)

Munich has this one in the bag


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Mo Rush said:


> Munich has this one in the bag


I wouldn't dismiss Pyeongchang so quickly. They almost won the 2010 games against equally stiff competition.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

Yes - Pyeongchang actually surprised many as the underdog going in but became a very strong contender against Vancouver to the end.


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## eomer (Nov 15, 2003)

rmutt said:


> Annency? I suspect many within the IOC are waiting for Paris to get its timing right before taking any Games to France. Who know if that'll be for 2020 or 2024.


If we consider ski ressorts only, Annecy would be far ahead.
But I think that Korea will get Olympics because IOC admit that 2014 OG will be hosted in Europe and not in Asia (Where is Socchi ?).
Munchen has more facilities...so, why not OG in Germany ?


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## desertpunk (Oct 12, 2009)

I voted for Munich. It has it all, plus it has the best airport.


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## Capital78 (Jan 23, 2008)

My vote goes to Munich. The best winter Olympic games have always taken place in Europe!


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## *SFCboy* (Nov 15, 2008)

the winter games should be a latinamerican city, some it city's of chile and aregtina could be a city host for example ushuaia and punta arenas


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## Calvin W (Nov 5, 2005)

Capital78 said:


> My vote goes to Munich. The best winter Olympic games have always taken place in Europe!


Typical coming from a European. Sad that no North American city is bidding.

If I have too vote then I guess Munich.


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## Matthew Lowry (Dec 23, 2009)

2018 Munich, Germany
2022 Reno-Tahoe, United States
2026 Santiago, Chile
2030 Queenstown, New Zealand
2034 Tromsø, Norway
2038 Almaty, Kazakhstan
2042 Anchorage, United States

2018 Munich, Germany is ready and with Garmisch-Partenkirchen the site of the 1936 winter olympic which the SNOW cluster and Munich as hosted the 1972 Summer games and will be the ICE cluster both citys has hosted the games and with Garmisch-Partenkirchen is only 88km away from munich it will be the first City to host the summer and winter games. IOC vice priesedent Thomas Bach is from germany and he will swin the vote to munich easy.


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## CaliforniaJones (Apr 9, 2009)

I guess either Munich or Pyeonchang. Munic seems to be strong, but there will have Sochi (Europe) in 2014. Pyeonchang could win because of continental alternance.
2022 Winter Olympic race could be between a US city, some europeans cities, some south american cities (Chile for example).


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## geoone (Nov 12, 2009)

hkskyline said:


> Nah ... Istanbul bidded for so many times and kept on doing so and have not yet won.


But Istanbul has never come as close in winning like Pyeong Chang has, twice. Pyeong Chang only lost by less than a handful of votes both times. Istanbul has always finished at the bottom of the totem-pole bidding barrel. No comparison between the two whatsoever.


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## geoone (Nov 12, 2009)

rmutt said:


> If Pyeongchang couldn't win two times before when continental rotation favored them, it's hard to see them winning it this time. They have upset many IF's after their lackluster hosting of many world championships. Their bid has never been technically great either.


Well, for 2010, there was still the 2008 Beijing factor. Granted, '08 was Summer, but that factor was still there & Pyeong Chang still only lost by just three votes. 2014 I still wouldn't say was the best conditions for them for rotation either. I'd say 2018 is the ideal rotation for PC, since it would be 20 years since the last Asian Winter Games, & no Asian Summer Games are preceding 2018. Plus, it seems like the trend that the IOC likes to award Asia every 10 years with either a Summer or Winter Games; '88 Seoul - '98 Nagano - '08 Beijing - PC 2018?

And who says that the "best" technical bid has to win anyway? For 2014 & 2016, the least favorable technical bids won, Sochi & Rio. Sochi has to build *everything from scratch* & Rio's venue plan was by far the most spread-out from it's competitors. Besides, that term is so loose, anyway. Since the "best" bid can be very subjective anyway & can mean different things to different people, like the 100-plus individually different IOC membership from around the diverse globe.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

^^ Spot on.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

I don't think continental rotation applies too much to the Winter Games. Historically, they have been held far too often in Europe and North America. They rotate around far less than the Summer Games.


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## geoone (Nov 12, 2009)

That is correct, but that doesn't mean that the IOC isn't at some point going to go to back to Asia when they have a viable option to do so (topography also has a great deal as to why the Winter Olympics have been mainly held in Europe & North America). 

The IOC also likes to break new ground & promote the Olympic Movement in places where in would be new territory, & the chance to also further promote winter sports in Asia would be a big plus to the PC bid.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

My preference is Pyeonchang.


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## maldini (Jul 5, 2003)

Could be in Harbin, China.


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

maldini said:


> Could be in Harbin, China.


hno: No, the list of the applicant cities is completed! It will be a race between 
Pyeongchang and Munich! (sry, but Annecy has no chance imo!)


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## Matthew Lowry (Dec 23, 2009)

2018 Pyeongchang, South Korea
2022 Munich, Germany
2026 Reno-Tahoe, United States
2030 Santiago, Chile
2034 Queenstown, New Zealand
2038 Almaty, Kazakhstan
2042 Anchorage, United States
2046 Sofia, Bulgaria
2050 Bursa, Turkey


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## Matthew Lowry (Dec 23, 2009)

2018 Munich, Germany
2022 Reno-Tahoe, United States
2026 Santiago, Chile
2030 Sapporo, Japan
2034 Queenstown, New Zealand


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## NeonNight (Nov 19, 2007)

2018 Munich, Germany
2022 Zaragoza, Spain
2026 Reno, USA
2030 Santiago, Chile
2034 Almaty, Kazakhstan


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## *SFCboy* (Nov 15, 2008)

2018: munich
2022: harbin
2026: pta. arenas chile
2030: boyse city USA
2034: astana


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

Temperatures in:

Santiago (today) 30°C/86°F no snow!!
Punta Arenas: 17°C/63°F

Munich: -5°C/23°F light snow
Pyeongchang: -8°C/17°F

Are you sure IOC will award WOG to a city in the southern hemisphere?


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

isaidso said:


> I agree. They should start out by getting a World Cup event scheduled in our summer, and see if they can pull it off. Maybe a southern hemisphere tour that's run by a few southern hemispshere nations and go from there. They need to at least try.


I think in the US they use to televise such events on the Wide World of Sports program on Saturday afternoons in the late spring/summer and they always got horrible ratings compared to the middle of winter.


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

isaidso said:


> I agree that it's a stretch, but sacrifices should be made regarding the WOG. The northern hemisphere is going to have to bend on this one eventually. We can't have it all to ourselves every time. The federations may be convinced to sacrifice, but in my eyes it's the networks that will put up the biggest fight against a WOG down south. They won't be able to make as much money if northerners are at the cottage, and by extension, the IOC won't make as much money either. Perhaps, that's where the blame lies: the IOC.
> 
> It should be said the the northern hemisphere rules both the WOG and the SOG.


True about the TV attendance. Main problem would be that Winter Olympic games in June/July would be in direct competition with the football world cup which is held in the same year. No chance at all to win this, so the IOC will under these circumstances never give the games to the southern hemisphere because they need the network money.


Oh, btw., someone should create a "The extraordinary Olympics forecast lottery" thread for Matthew Lowry and see which of his variants will become reality. :banana:


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## Matthew Lowry (Dec 23, 2009)

2018 PC, South Korea
2022 Munich, Germany
2026 Reno, USA
2030 Santiago, Chile
2034 Queenstown, New Zealand
2038 Sapporo, Japan
2042 Jaca, Spain
2046 Anchorage, USA
2050 Canberra, Australia
2054 Lillehammer, Norway
2058 Bariloche, Argentina
2062 Almaty, Kazakhstan
2066 Denver, USA


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## Maszgz (Jan 9, 2007)

2018 Pyeonchang, South Korea
2022 Zaragoza, Spain
2026 Reno, USA
2030 Santiago, Chile


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## Matthew Lowry (Dec 23, 2009)

2018 Munich, Germany
2022 Reno, USA
2026 Santiago, Chile
2030 Sapporo, Japan
2034 Queenstown, New Zealand
2038 Barcelona, Spain
2042 Anchorage, USA
2046 Kozani, Greece
2050 Bursa, Turkey
2054 Lillehammer, Norway
2058 Bariloche, Argentina
2062 Quebec City, Canada
2066 Canberra, Australia
2070 Harbin, China
2074 Chamonix, France back to the brith place of the winter olympics after 150 years
2078 Lake Placid, USA
2082 Hobart, Australia


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## Sylver (Sep 6, 2009)

^^USA three times in one century? That will never happen.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Sylver said:


> ^^USA three times in one century? That will never happen.


It did last century: 1932, 1960, and 1980. He actually has the USA 4 times in one century though. You're forgetting that they hosted in 2002. The US hosting 4 times is pushing it, but Reno, Barcelona, Canberra, and Hobart? :weird:


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## girlicious_likeme (Jun 12, 2008)

2050: Whitehorse, Yukon. 

I wish. :rofl:

EDIT: after Quebec City had hosted!


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

2018 Pyeongchang, South Korea
2022 Munich, Germany
2026 Harbin, China
2030 Östersund, Sweden
2034 Annecy, France
2038 Denver, United States
2042 somewhere in Finland if the alpine events issue can be resolved
2046 Geneva, Switzerland
2050 Quebec City, Canada


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## Matthew Lowry (Dec 23, 2009)

2018 Munich, Germany
2022 Reno, USA
2026 Santiago, Chile
2030 Queenstown, New Zealand
2034 Lillehammer, Norway
2038 Sapporo, Japan
2042 Anchorage, USA
2046 Kozani, Greece
2050 Canberra, Australia
2054 Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada
2058 Harbin, China 50 years after beijing
2062 Östersund, Sweden 150 years after stockhom


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## pierolol (Apr 29, 2009)

Annecy 2018






French Alpes are ready!!!


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

isaidso said:


> 2018 Pyeongchang, South Korea
> 2022 Munich, Germany
> 2026 Harbin, China
> 2030 Östersund, Sweden
> ...


I think this is a rather good list, especially the first four. I personally don't think Denver should be eligible until 2076, 100 years after they were given the honor or threw it back at the IOC. I would also think a Spain winter games would be a good eventually (perhaps 2034?). It would also nice to see Turkey or say Lebanon get a games down the road as well.

2018 Pyeongchang, South Korea
2022 Munich, Germany
2026 Harbin, China
2030 Jaca, Spain
2034 Östersund, Sweden
2038 Reno/Burlington Vt. /Anchorage , U.S.
2042 Sion, Switzerland
2046 Zakopane, Poland
2050 Quebec City, Canada


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

I'm not familiar with Reno's topography. I know there are mountains close by, but are they suitable for an Olympic downhill? I like the idea of Anchorage hosting also. Denver was a long time ago. Perhaps, this generation shouldn't have to pay for things that happened before they were born?

Out of my list, as problematic as it is, Finland is my sentimental favourite. Despite being a major winter Olympics sporting nation, they've never hosted due to the absence of a suitable Olympic downhill course. They really deserve to land a WOG, but I don't know if the IOC will ever be willing to compromise and let this one discipline be contested outside of Finland or on a shorter course.

What mountain in Finland is closest to being Olympic downhill suitable? Is it close to suitable, or well short of being suitable? I tried researching this on the net, but had no luck. Perhaps some Finns can chime in?


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## geoone (Nov 12, 2009)

Finland has no suitable mountain. When they tried to bid for the 2006 Games, they wanted to joint-host with Lillehammer, Norway for the Alpine events. Well, that was a big no-no with the IOC. The IOC doesn't go for joint bids. 

Reno has Squaw Valley nearby, which hosted the 1960 Winter Games, so that would be part of their bid for the Alpine events.


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## pierolol (Apr 29, 2009)

Annecy_ Haute-Savoie_ Mont Blanc


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

geoone said:


> Finland has no suitable mountain. When they tried to bid for the 2006 Games, they wanted to joint-host with Lillehammer, Norway for the Alpine events. Well, that was a big no-no with the IOC. The IOC doesn't go for joint bids.


I'm aware of the IOC's stated position, but they need to re-assess that. We're really just talking about downhill, and maybe super G. Finland is #5 all time in the medal tables, #6 if you include the defunct Soviet Union. They should make an exception for this country. 

There's precedence too. Wasn't equestrian held in Hong Kong at one of the summer Olympics prior to Beijing? I'm pretty sure the IOC has made exceptions before.

The World Cup has gone one further and split all the events down the middle between 2 countries. Japan and South Korea both hosted the same World Cup of Soccer.



geoone said:


> Reno has Squaw Valley nearby, which hosted the 1960 Winter Games, so that would be part of their bid for the Alpine events.


OK, thanks. I knew Squaw Valley was in California, but not that it was near Reno.


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## geoone (Nov 12, 2009)

isaidso said:


> There's precedence too. Wasn't equestrian held in Hong Kong at one of the summer Olympics prior to Beijing? I'm pretty sure the IOC has made exceptions before.
> 
> The World Cup has gone one further and split all the events down the middle between 2 countries. Japan and South Korea both hosted the same World Cup of Soccer.


Equestrian in Hong Kong for the Beijing Olympics was more about a Chinese political statement rather than an exception by the IOC. There was absolutely no need for Equestrian to have been held so far away from Beijing when other options much closer could've been made. China just wanted bragging rights for Hong Kong. 

Or are you thinking about the Equestrian events held in Stockholm for the 1956 Melbourne Games because of Australia's strict quarantine laws back then? I don't know all the specifics in that situation, but that didn't happen for Sydney 2000.

And Sepp Blatter, president of FIFA, doesn't relish joint-bids really, particularly because of Japan & South Korea co-hosting back in 2002, since the logistics were everything but smooth. For the bidding cycles of the 2018/2022 World Cups, the 2 joint bids in the bidding process aren't getting much attention over the more solid, single nation bids.

The IOC mainly doesn't like them because it's far more bureaucratic red-tape dealing with 2 nations versus just 1. And it does go against the Olympic Charter that states that only one 'city' can host the Olympics, let alone 2 countries. If Sweden, another great Winter Sports power (& which has the resorts for the Alpine events within it's borders), is still waiting for their first Winter Olympics (after numerous previous failed attempts), I don't give Finland much chances.


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## swifty78 (Nov 10, 2002)

Ahhh would love to see a Swedish Olympics  and a German and Swiss one too.


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## Mo Rush (Nov 13, 2004)

Shame, poor France. Another loss on its way.


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## Alphaville (Nov 28, 2007)

isaidso said:


> It did last century: 1932, 1960, and 1980. He actually has the USA 4 times in one century though. You're forgetting that they hosted in 2002. The US hosting 4 times is pushing it, but Reno, Barcelona, Canberra, and Hobart? :weird:


Actually in the scheme of things, the IOC would be more likely to award the Olympic Winter Games to Canberra than they would to anywhere in Finland.

At least Canberra has moderately decent mountain resorts on its doorstep, Finland has none.


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## swifty78 (Nov 10, 2002)

I do believe Hobart does not have suitable ski fields...


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

parcdesprinces said:


> Thanks.... But, btw, I 'm French.....


I thought you might be, but thought I'd play it safe. Vive la France et bonne chance equippe France. I hope Joubert does as well as he's capable of doing this time around. His past Olympic performances don't mirror his ability at all.

That's the first time I've used French in 8 years. I should enroll in conversational French. I took honours French in high school, but over the years have lost about 90% of it.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

thun said:


> I'm really looking forward to the games, too. The downhill races and biathlon competitions are my must see on the weekend.


Good luck to your German team over the next 2 weeks.


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## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

Am I a bad Australian that I don't know what events the Australians are in and never have in previous Winter Games but it gives me a chance to watch Ice Hockey?


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Nope. 

Australia @ the winter Olympics is sort of like Canada @ the Commonwealth Games. We attend both, but they're largely a foreign curiousity rather than something we're heavily engaged with.


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

Australia won 2 gold medals the last time, in freestyle skiing and short-track. That's almost as good as Austria was. :nuts:


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## Matthew Lowry (Dec 23, 2009)

2018 Munich, Germany
2022 Reno-Tahoe, USA
2026 Santiago, Chile
2030 Sapporo, Japan
2034 Lillehammer, Norway
2038 Canberra, Australia
2042 Anchorage, USA
2046 Sofa, Bulgaria
2050 Queenstown, New Zealand
2054 Quebec City, Canada
2058 Vladivostok, Russia
2062 Jaca, Spain
2066 Bariloche, Argentina
2070 Denver, USA
2074 Hobart, Australia


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## renco (Dec 5, 2005)

Munich is mine choice.


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## neromancer (May 24, 2009)

Matthew Lowry said:


> 2018 Munich, Germany
> 2022 Reno-Tahoe, USA
> 2026 Santiago, Chile
> 2030 Sapporo, Japan
> ...


2018 Pyeonchang, South Korea
2022 Munich, Germany
2026 Reno-Tahoe, USA
2030 Östersund, Sweden 
2034 Harbin, China
2038 Santiago,Chile
2042 Annecy, France
2046 Anchorage, USA
2050 Queenstown, New Zealand
2054 Rovaniemi, Finland
2058 Vladivistok, or one of two Siberian ski resorts Sheregesh or Belokurikha ( Altay)
2062 Quebec City, Canada
2066 Bariloche, Argentina
2070 Sapporo, Japan
2074 Sofia, Bulgaria
2078 Lillehammer, Norway
2082 Denver,USA
2086 Jaca, Spain
2090 Alma-Aty, Kazakhstan
2094 Hobart, Australia, but I don`t know about winter sports in Australia
2098 Salzburg, Austria
2102 Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

neromancer said:


> 2042 Annecy, France


Most of you, when you make such lists, make your choice with many cities which have already hosted, or former candidate cities...

For example, in the case of Annecy, IMO they won't have a chance anymore (in the national bidding) to be the official candidate of France in the near future, since other cities such as Grenoble, Gap, Chambery, Nice, Albertville, Pelvoux or even Lyon could have their chance too. For winter bids, the French Olympic committee, try to apply a rotation system in order to give chances to other potential candidates !


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

parcdesprinces said:


> Most of you, when you make such lists, make your choice with many cities which have already hosted, or former candidate cities...
> 
> For example, in the case of Annecy, IMO they won't have a chance anymore (in the national bidding) to be the official candidate of France in the near future, since other cities such as Grenoble, Gap, Chambery, Nice, Albertville, Pelvoux or even Lyon could have their chance too. For winter bids, the French Olympic committee, try to apply a rotation system in order to give chances to other potential candidates !


I guess France will prefer a summer games bid, if Annecy's bid fails.
But Nice wolud be nice, a beautiful city!


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Matthew Lowry said:


> 2018 Munich, Germany
> 2022 Reno-Tahoe, USA
> 2026 Santiago, Chile
> 2030 Sapporo, Japan
> ...


Alright, here we go...

Reno? Nah, it'll probably go to the competition (I'd like Bozeman, Montana to make a bid, but that won't happen).
Santiago? Maybe, but I would like to see somewhere in NZ as the first southern hemisphere hosts.
Sapporo? They'll need to build a sliding track again, most of the legacy from 1972 is long gone.
Lillehammer might just have become too small for another Olympics, try the smaller scaled Youth Winter Olympics.
Canberra's not a chance, unless you want to build a mountain with a 800 meter vertical drop minimum at Perisher Blue, costing 100 million of no doubt taxpayer money, and needs to be structurally sound and environmentally friendly.
Anchorage might want it sooner than later.
Sofia, after bidding for the umpteenth time?
Queenstown (or Christchurch) might get it earlier.
Quebec City wants it sooner than later, 2022 though unlikely might happen.
Is there even adequate mountains near Vladivostok?
Zaragoza would most likely be Spain's bid attempts from now on, using the Pyrenees for the alpine events and a much needed city to anchor the games.
Argentina? Well maybe they might have won some medals by then, several southern hemisphere games in 100 years is unlikely.
Denver will get it eventually, but sooner than later.
Hobart, though a snowy city will need to invest much like Canberra and waste 100 million or more on a mountain that they lack. It's unlikely.


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

About half of his lists is rubbish anyway. 

Where near Quebec can you find a mountain for the alpine competitions? I always thought that such large resorts don't exist in Quebec.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

thun said:


> About half of his lists is rubbish anyway.
> 
> Where near Quebec can you find a mountain for the alpine competitions? I always thought that such large resorts don't exist in Quebec.


It's got nothing to do with how large a resort is, it's about how big the vertical on the mountain is.

You can easily host Women's Downhill at Le Massif, Men's Downhill is another matter.

They proposed to use a ramp and finishing area system for Le Massif, for both Men's and Women's Downhill.

Now that the trails have been redeveloped to over 700 meter vertical drop, Women's Downhill is not a problem.

To solve the problem of Men's Downhill without having to resort to ramps, is to develop inland, lower a mountainside or increase it's height, to allow for a minimum 800 meter vertical drop for Men's Downhill. It will cost money yes, but has a far lasting legacy than a 25 million odd temporary ramp. It will alter the environment yes, but there will be rules set in place and etc to ensure minimal environmental impact. Whatever is deforested, will be replanted etc.

It can work, and is far better sounding than a temporary ramp. Whether it's wise to implement it now or if 7 years is enough who knows.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

I would deforest the left side of Le Massif, increase the height of the mountainside, map the trails, add a finishing area at the base of the mountain (not at the river) of at least 800 meters. It's possible. Just reforest what you clear elsewhere.


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

"Large" was the wrong term.  Of course, I thought about the drop, and apparently I wasn't wrong. Ramps would be just ridiculous, imo. And it's not only about the minimum drop, you also need a certain style of slope that fulfils expectations for a olympic downhill race.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Style of slope? You can easily host Men's Downhill as long as you got the vertical minimum of 800 meters. Just map the trails to the standard and there you go. It can work, and is probably better than attempting to build a mountain anyways.


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## Matthew Lowry (Dec 23, 2009)

How much dose the winter olympics cost? I know the summer olympics cost 20billion.

2018 Munich, Germany
2022 Reno-Tahoe, USA
2026 Santiago, Chile
2030 Queenstown, New Zealand or Canberra, Australia
2034 Lillehammer, Norway
2038 Sapporo, Japan
2042 Anchorage, USA


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

I mean you need a decend decline, jumps, etc., simply the proper terrain for a good, spectacular and selective downhill race. You can't host a olympic downhill competition on a green or blue slope even if it has the needed drop. 

Regarding the costs: The Munich application calculates with about 2 billion Euros.


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## SO Far aways (Dec 15, 2005)

PC will get the right to be host at last. 2018 game must come to Asia definitely.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

thun said:


> I mean you need a decend decline, jumps, etc., simply the proper terrain for a good, spectacular and selective downhill race. You can't host a olympic downhill competition on a green or blue slope even if it has the needed drop.
> 
> Regarding the costs: The Munich application calculates with about 2 billion Euros.


Yes you can, just map the trails and it will work. This is Quebec's best hope.


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

And how to map if you don't have a proper terrain? You hardly can dig away half of the mountain. 
(Hypothetically, I don't know how Le Massif actually looks like).


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## geoone (Nov 12, 2009)

> I think it's quite fair that Europe gets more winter games. You can't apply a simple continental rotation like at the summer games (where it doesn't work perfectly, too) as most winter sports are dominated by Europeans (Russia, Germany, Norway being the most successful, then there are classic winter sport nations like France, Italy, Switzerland, Austria, etc.) and (to a lesser extend) North Americans - as well as the public interest is pretty much concentrated in these regions. Asia still has a very long way to go. Look at Japan, i. e.: They hosted the Sapporo games in '72 and the Nagano games and didn't manage to make their way to the top league of winter sport nations.


I don't think it's a matter of fairness, per se. But rather that the IOC does like & needs to spread it's wings to unfamiliar territory every once in a while (i.e. Rio - maybe Pyeonchang) to further promote the Olympic Movement.

The Winter Olympics have already been (scheduled) in Europe & North America, twice each, since the last Asian Winter host. The IOC is gonna need to throw the usual bone to Asia relatively soon. Besides, at least South Korea does much better at the Winter Medal Tallies than Japan does.


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

^^
Still, you need to keep in mind that there are quite a lot of European countries which do better and, more importantly, represent bigger markets. And by definition there are limits in "spreading the movement" when it comes to the winter games because the needed climatic and geographic preconditions limit the list of potential hosts as it's not enough to build a fancy stadium. 
I don't say Asia should never get the winter olympics again. But you have to keep in mind that Europe dominates in both results and market volume and the vast majority of "winter sport nations" comes from Europe.


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## SO Far aways (Dec 15, 2005)

thun said:


> ^^
> Still, you need to keep in mind that there are quite a lot of European countries which do better and, more importantly, represent bigger markets. And by definition there are limits in "spreading the movement" when it comes to the winter games because the needed climatic and geographic preconditions limit the list of potential hosts as it's not enough to build a fancy stadium.
> I don't say Asia should never get the winter olympics again. But you have to keep in mind that Europe dominates in both results and market volume and the vast majority of "winter sport nations" comes from Europe.


^^
But thing that you should remind is the winter game just is just hosted by Turin on 2006 and the coming 2014 in Sochi. So that IOC will turn this game to Asia definitely as well as the declination of European economy and the rising of Asia is doing well. Don't worry about the demand. The Asian never made IOC feels down, every Olympics which were in Asia alway success.


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## geoone (Nov 12, 2009)

> I don't say Asia should never get the winter olympics again. But you have to keep in mind that Europe dominates in both results and market volume and the vast majority of "winter sport nations" comes from Europe.


Well, it seems that's exactly what you're saying though, by always stating that we should 'keep in mind' that Europe dominates the Winter Olympics in every aspect. Which I'm not refutting, btw.

But Europe has always dominated the Winter Games, & yet they've ventured to Asia twice & to a lesser degree North America & Eastern Europe, particularly Yugoslavia (which had no Winter Olympic medals when Sarajevo was elected).

Pyeong Chang may or may not win, but if they lose, it won't be because Europe dominates the Winter Games, but rather that the IOC has another political agenda in mind, like awarding the 2020 Summer Games to Asia. Which btw, I think is one of Munich's handicaps, since quite a few European nations would like to mount 2020 Summer bids.


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

Technically, one could argue that Sotchi is in Asia. I simply wouldn't count on continental rotation in the case of the winter games. There were 26 years between Sapporo and Nagano games (which is probably too long, I have to admit).
The argument with the declining economy is rubbish as Europe even then represents a way bigger market for winter sport industry (which fortunately isn't too important for the IOC decision).

I'm just stating my point of view how it works. Quite simple. Let's wait till next year and everyone will know more.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Matthew Lowry said:


> How much dose the winter olympics cost? I know the summer olympics cost 20billion.


Canada spent $6 billion on the Vancouver Olympics.


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## florent72 (Feb 19, 2010)

( I am new on this forum, so Hi everybody  )


On the link below, you will find all the venues proposed by Annecy 2018 (I did not succeed in putting the video in my message, but maybe someone else can do it)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvBWYnGUTK0

Annecy has its chances, and proposes Olympic Games in the heart of the mountain, with an exceptional snow coverage, and splendid landscapes.


Nobody can predict the result, especially while basing on historical facts, or geographical aspects, as “last WOG in Germany were in 1936” or “there is a geographical rotation”. 

Firstable : even the greatest geographers cannot define exactly the borders of Europe, so nobody can really says if Sochi is in Asia or Europe.
Moreover, the recent history showed that several successive editions of the Olympic Games (winter and summer) could be held on the same continent : 


1980 :
Winter : Lake Placid, USA
1984 :
Summer : Los Angeles, USA
1992 : 
Summer : Barcelone, Spain
Winter : Albertville, France
1994 :
Lillehammer, Norway
2004 :
Summer : Athens, Greece
2006 : 
Winter : Torino, Italy

And there are many other examples ...


And it's not because Germany did not host the WOG since 1936 that Munich will be the host city in 2018.

Paris did not organize the Summer Olympic Games since 1924, but Barcelona won the race for 1992, Beijing for 2008, and London or 2012, whereas the last edition in London took place in 1948.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

thun said:


> And how to map if you don't have a proper terrain? You hardly can dig away half of the mountain.
> (Hypothetically, I don't know how Le Massif actually looks like).


The answer is now simple, you go back to Quebec's 2002 bid, and look at their 2 proposals: Cap-du-Salut near Le Massif or Acropole Des Draveurs, further inland.

Both had are unfortunate to end in at a river.

Acropole Des Draveurs has the vertical, but a finishing area at the river would need to be made, along with the infrastructure to get people there (mainly roads).
The main choice, Cap-du-Salut should have the summit increased in height to say 830 meters, with the finishing area at 15 meters above sea level. This would provide 815 meters vertical, and will not require a silly ramp system or finishing area at the river.

It can work and I'm sure the Quebec bid team will propose something like that.

Now we look at the other venues.

Putting aside the snow based sports which can easily be held at existing mountains and ski areas, the ice based sports will be greatly boosted with a new arena or two.
Just keep the Quebec Colisee as a historical venue, lest you want to build a new venue for Short Track and Figure Skating.
Overall, you should expect most venues to have at least 100 extra seats for their proposed venues than what was proposed for 2002.
Possibly even expect the largest venue for Ice Hockey with the proposed new arena being well over 20,000 in ice hockey capacity (Calgary had the largest at 20,016).


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## Snorky33 (Oct 23, 2009)

2018/2022 Munich/Pyeongchang or Pyeongchang/Munich


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## jlch1987 (Feb 7, 2010)

Do we got any bid books yet, official venues, capacities, infrastructure...?


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

jlch1987 said:


> Do we got any bid books yet, official venues, capacities, infrastructure...?



www.munich2018.com



> The Ice Cluster in Munich Olympic Park
> The ice competitions, as well as the Opening and Closing Ceremony, will be held in Munich's Olympi Park. The grand Olympic Stadium, which was recently renovated to world-class standards, will once again welcome the world for the Opening and the Closing Cermony. The Medal Plaza, where medal ceremonies are conducted each night during the Games, will be set up to host these joyous celebrations near the class architechtural landmark of Town Hall in the heart of Munich.
> 
> The Ice Hockey Tournaments will be held in two new ice hockey arenas, both to be constructed on sites now occupied by the current ice sports centre and the current event arena. The second new arena will be converted to a multi-purpose sports facility after the Games.
> ...












1,2,3 and 4 are already existing, the infrastructure of the Olympic Park is excellent: subway connection to the city centre, parking lots and perfect street links.


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## Matthew Lowry (Dec 23, 2009)

IOC list
2018 Munich, Germany
2022 Reno-Tahoe, USA
2026 Santiago, Chile
2030 Almaty, Kazakhstan
2034 Lillehammer, Norway
2038 Canberra, Australia. 250th Year of Australia 1788-2038
2042 Anchorage, United States
2046 Kozani, Greece. 150th year of the Olympics 1896-2046
2050 Sapporo, Japan


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

Not 2018 news but if South Korea wins the 2018 race then 2022 could turn out to be a very intriguing match-up between two past summer host in Munich and Barcelona.



> *http://in.reuters.com/article/worldOfSport/idINIndia-45366320100113*
> 
> *Barcelona to bid for 2022 Winter Olympics*
> Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:59pm IST
> ...



..


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Matthew Lowry said:


> IOC list
> 2018 Munich, Germany
> 2022 Reno-Tahoe, USA
> 2026 Santiago, Chile
> ...


Why do you keep insisting Canberra? You can't expect to build a mountain with a 800 meter drop in 7 or so years, nor expect authorities to allow for the digging of a mountain to create such a drop. Imagine all the environmental protesters, let alone the cost. IT WON'T HAPPEN!

And that Greece location is a joke too (especially as it contradicts your supposed Summer Olympics list in that Athens will host in 2044! ).


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

Barcelona stands for winter sports, yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!hno:
What are the distances from Barcelona to the ski resorts in the mountains?


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

BCN - La Molina (the closest resort to the city - at least what I know) is 155km and according to Google Maps around 2h. So it would be comparable to Vancouver-Whistler, I guess.
However, I guess Zaragoza would be a better choice for Spain. Or maybe even Granada, they want to build a funicular to Sol y Nieve anyway, so you could basically host the games more or less at one place. (Though I doubt that there is adequate terrain for cross-country skiing in the Sierra Nevada).


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## hmueller2 (Feb 3, 2009)

Snorky33 said:


> 2018/2022 Munich/Pyeongchang or Pyeongchang/Munich


absolutely right


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## geoone (Nov 12, 2009)

I doubt Pyeong Chang would have the iron stomach to try a 4th consecutive time if they don't get it this time around. The 2014 loss was devastating to them, a 2018 loss I think would emotionally destroy them. And trying to get Gangwon province on board for this 3rd run wasn't as easy as their 1st & 2nd attempts. A 4th consecutive try would be futile, whereas Munich has already stated they are prepared for a 2nd run for 2022 should the 2018 one fails.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Matthew Lowry said:


> 2018 PC, South Korea
> 2022 Munich, Germany
> 2026 Reno-Tahoe, USA
> 2030 Santiago, Chile
> ...


They just get stupider and stupider.

Besides, it would just be Canberra not Canberra-Mount Kosciuszko! Pfft.


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## eMKay (Feb 2, 2007)

krudmonk said:


> Weird, the ice reads "San Jose." Why would that be?


Have you tried looking at a map?


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## eMKay (Feb 2, 2007)

Bobby3 said:


> It does have one, actually. The Cow Palace has hosted ice hockey.
> 
> It's hardly ideal, but it counts.


So that is two, you really need two.


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## eMKay (Feb 2, 2007)

GEwinnen said:


> If Munich's bid fails in 2018, it will be Europe's turn in 2022.
> Albany/ Lake Placid would be another bid of a small village /small town.
> I'm sure IOC will prefer bids from big cities in the future, remember Torino and Vancouver! What about Denver for a future US bid?


It would not be Europe's turn, that would be two in 8 years. And lake Placid is a small town, Albany is not.


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## krudmonk (Jun 14, 2007)

eMKay said:


> Have you tried looking at a map?


Haha, have you? What's your fucking point? If the ski slopes would be 4-5 hours from San Francisco for their hypothetical Olympics, you'd think the main indoor venue could be less than an hour away, too.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

GEwinnen said:


> Lake Placid is a small village! And Albany is a small town, definetely!
> 
> Acoording to wikipedia, it has 95,000 inh.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albany,_New_York


Albany isn't a big city like Munich, but it's not a small town. There were 853,919 people in the Albany metropolitan area in 2008. Metropolitan area is always a far better reflection on the number of people who *actually* live in a place. You can draw a town boundary any where you want.


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

eMKay said:


> It would not be Europe's turn, that would be two in 8 years. And lake Placid is a small town, Albany is not.


Lake Placid is a small village! And Albany is a small town, definetely!

Acoording to wikipedia, it has 95,000 inh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albany,_New_York

Compared to this, Munich is huge metropolis (1,300,000 inh. / metropolitan area 5,000,000)

Don't be greedy, Americans! Your country hosted 4 (!!!!!) Olympic games in just 22 years!!


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## Denver_fan (Mar 10, 2010)

I'm a bit surprised. I remember hearing on the local radio in 2006 something along the lines of a possible Reno-Sparks Olympics bid. However the link here: 

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/jan/20/reno-tahoe-named-possible-host-2022-olympic-games/

has a Reno-Tahoe for a possible future WOG bid. I'm not sure if NV and CA would like working together for this bid especially if Reno is to collect some funds through local taxes. Of other American cities don't be surprised if Jackson, WY or Missoula, MT pops up. 

I respect opinions for possible future bidding cities, but 30 years into the future is a bit too difficult to predict. Who knows we may have cities in Nepal and India bidd by then?


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## eMKay (Feb 2, 2007)

krudmonk said:


> Haha, have you? What's your fucking point? If the ski slopes would be 4-5 hours from San Francisco for their hypothetical Olympics, you'd think the main indoor venue could be less than an hour away, too.


Relax asshole. So have you looked at that map yet?


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## eMKay (Feb 2, 2007)

GEwinnen said:


> Lake Placid is a small village! And Albany is a small town, definetely!
> 
> Acoording to wikipedia, it has 95,000 inh.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albany,_New_York
> ...


95,000LOL! Never been to Albany have you, metro is 1.2 million, one of the largest cities ever to host the winter olympics.


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## krudmonk (Jun 14, 2007)

eMKay said:


> Relax asshole. So have you looked at that map yet?


What's there to see that would make you correct?


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## Denver_fan (Mar 10, 2010)

*Colorado could host in 2022*

Denver could host 2022 Winter Olympics.

http://www.kcfr.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=94

(scroll down to '2022 Winter Olympics in Colorado.' March 10' 2010) 

Something for European countries to consider if they are to avoid an economic mess of Greek proportions.


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## desertpunk (Oct 12, 2009)

Denver_fan said:


> Denver could host 2022 Winter Olympics.
> 
> http://www.kcfr.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=94
> 
> ...


It's long overdue for Denver to host a Winter Games. I even think an Albuquerque/Santa Fe/Taos Games would be quite doable. We have heavy commuter rail already in place and plenty of potential venues. As for adequate snowfall, as Vancouver proved, who needs that? :lol:


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## Denver_fan (Mar 10, 2010)

I skiied just outside Santa Fa once and have been to Taos. I can see future Winter games around Albuquerque; it's a great center.


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

So you Americans have already potential host cities for the next 100 years to apply for the games! :lol:


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## geoone (Nov 12, 2009)

That woman from the Denver Sports Authority has done her homework. She pretty much knows what she's talking about. Other than the part (& that's most likely due to the fact that she's very partial to a Denver 2022 bid) of not having to put some kind of financial guarantee together (which the IOC pretty much requires nowadays, despite previous U.S. hostings like L.A. & Atlanta, where it was private funding). The Global economic climate of today is drastically different of what it was 10-20 years ago.

It's been noted that 'part' of Chicago's 2016 loss was the City's reluctance (until the very last minute) of not wanting to give a full financial guarantee. The City & State threw that package in only just a few weeks before the final IOC vote. Regardless of how the U.S. "financial model" (as this woman was saying) has been in the past, the IOC nowadays wants a guarantee that whatever costs overruns that there are, that the host city/state or the host city's country's federal government pick up the tap in the end. 

Which is what Brazil has promised & what Japan was offering, too. And Vancouver was highly suggested while they were preparing their 2010 bid (& by an IOC official to boot) that they get somekind of government financial guarantee behind their bid. If that aspect isn't there nowadays (no matter winter or summer U.S. bids), the IOC is pretty much gonna say, "thanks for playing, but better luck next time".


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## Denver_fan (Mar 10, 2010)

geoone said:


> That woman from the Denver Sports Authority has done her homework. She pretty much knows what she's talking about. Other than the part (& that's most likely due to the fact that she's very partial to a Denver 2022 bid) of not having to put some kind of financial guarantee together (which the IOC pretty much requires nowadays, despite previous U.S. hostings like L.A. & Atlanta, where it was private funding). The Global economic climate of today is drastically different of what it was 10-20 years ago.
> 
> It's been noted that 'part' of Chicago's 2016 loss was the City's reluctance (until the very last minute) of not wanting to give a full financial guarantee. The City & State threw that package in only just a few weeks before the final IOC vote. Regardless of how the U.S. "financial model" (as this woman was saying) has been in the past, the IOC nowadays wants a guarantee that whatever costs overruns that there are, that the host city/state or the host city's country's federal government pick up the tap in the end.
> 
> Which is what Brazil has promised & what Japan was offering, too. And Vancouver was highly suggested while they were preparing their 2010 bid (& by an IOC official to boot) that they get somekind of government financial guarantee behind their bid. If that aspect isn't there nowadays (no matter winter or summer U.S. bids), the IOC is pretty much gonna say, "thanks for playing, but better luck next time".



Very true. However 2022 is far into the future and both America and the world will have changed quite a bit by then. 

Greece will be an example of what not to do in the name of image while Spain, Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Iceland, France, UK, and other European countries that just witnessed the shrinking of their overall economic size due to the 'Great Recession', and will have a shrinking tax base as their population ages rapidly, may exercise prudence. 

The problem the European countries, Japan, and other industrialized developing countries will encounter is convincing international lenders to invest in an event that may or may not be financially very successful. This in turn will keep the fly-by-night politicians in check by preventing them from extending financial guarantees to their respective sporting event organizing body.


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## Denver_fan (Mar 10, 2010)

I did not mention this above so here goes. 

Countries considering the option of hosting the Olympics and choosing not to exercise prudence will invariably jeopardize the stability of their currency. If the country is small the consequences could be catastrophic, and if the country is small under the umbrella of a common trade block or an international currency, it may face expulsion thus denying it necessary market access. The point is how much would a nation value an extravagant events over national interest to make the former choice.


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## geoone (Nov 12, 2009)

Denver_fan said:


> The point is how much would a nation value an extravagant events over national interest to make the former choice.


Obviously quite several. 

Greece & China did. The U.K., Brazil & Russia are going to. And several others were/are prepared to, like Japan, South Korea, South Africa & Turkey, etc, in a time when the Global economic climate is not at it's greatest. And while 2022 is far into the future, the 2022 Winter Games will be awarded in 2015 though, & the 2022 campaign will begin in 2012. So unless there are great economic improvements in the next 3-5 years, the previous point about some sort of financial guarantee remains.

The Olympic Movement has been around for 123 years now, & cities & countries from all over the world are still lining up & knocking/banging at the IOC's door for their approval to have their city & country shine in the international spotlight. As long as the great appeal of the Olympic Games is still there, these same cities & governements are still gonna be trying to jump through the IOC hoops to try & get their nod.


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## Denver_fan (Mar 10, 2010)

Geoone you are not contradicting my argument rather complimenting it. We are talking 2022 and not around 2012. 

My example of things being different was with regards to repercussions a large deficit and debut would cause to a currency of a trade block loosing or having a reduced hard currency power. Now that would make bidding cities do a double take. 

You mention Russia and it happens to be the 5th largest country in the world with a booming mining and high technology fueled economy. Same goes for Brazil, additionally, both Brazil and Russia are expected to have growing economies for years to come. 

London/UK you mention was chosen host before the 'Great Ression'. If the issue of bidding were to come up now, believe me, the Tories would be loud in opposition to the event and Britain would listen. 

Lastly I'm talking about countries of Greece's politico-economic magnitude may have a difficult time fudging their books for an Olympic size event.


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## SpicyMcHaggis (Oct 7, 2008)

Sercan could you ban this spam bot?


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## Matthew Lowry (Dec 23, 2009)

2018 Munich, Germany
2022 Reno-Tahoe, USA
2026 Harbin, China
2030 Barcelona, Spain
2034 Quebec City, Canada
2038 Canberra-Mont K, Australia
2042 Sapporo, Japan
2046 Anchorage, USA


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## Denver_fan (Mar 10, 2010)

geoone said:


> This is a prestigious mammoth global event that's sought out by many cities throughout the world. Every bid race for the Olympic Games is a lobbying contest, a huge gamble, an enormous campaign endeavor. Every city involved is in it to WIN. So there's really no promises, no guarantees nor any dues that a U.S. bid would win even the next time around. Thinking otherwise is totally not understanding the IOC politics in all varibles.


With borrowed money of course?! Who is writing the check, IMF? The government that has already borrowed massively? Businesses that are still relatively well off?

In one of my previous posts I brought the role of politics out quite clearly so have others.

Additionally if you refuse to look at facts and an aggregate of all I and others have been saying and throw insults my way I'll simply chose to ignore those comments.


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## migo (Feb 26, 2006)

Matthew Lowry said:


> 2018 Munich, Germany
> 2022 Reno-Tahoe, USA
> 2026 Harbin, China
> 2030 Barcelona, Spain
> ...


2050 OLYMPUS MONS, Emperial Planet of America (Planet Mars), since they're currently in the business of attempting to conquer earth.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Matthew Lowry said:


> Vancouver 2,116,000
> 
> Anccey 55,000


hno:

Try at least to use the same data when you compare !

If you use the metro area number for Vancouver, Munich or Salt Lake etc, then use it for all of them:
Annecy : 200,000 inhabitants (metro area) !

Anyway the size of the main city is not really important for WOG, maybe you don't know/remember, but for example Albertville '92 (Metro: 43,225 inhabitants) hosted just after Calgary '88 (metro. 1,079,310).... 

So, your argument is not valid !


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## Matthew Lowry (Dec 23, 2009)

migo said:


> 2050 OLYMPUS MONS, Emperial Planet of America (Planet Mars), since they're currently in the business of attempting to conquer earth.


2050 OLYMPUS MONS the frist space olympics wont be unit 2800


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## geoone (Nov 12, 2009)

Denver_fan said:


> With borrowed money of course?! Who is writing the check, IMF? The government that has already borrowed massively? Businesses that are still relatively well off?
> 
> In one of my previous posts I brought the role of politics out quite clearly so have others.
> 
> Additionally if you refuse to look at facts and an aggregate of all I and others have been saying and throw insults my way I'll simply chose to ignore those comments.


Excuse me?? What substance are you on?? "Throwing 'insults' your way"?? Like what?? Please stop falsely accusing me of such things when I clearly haven't called you anything. You're the one who started telling me that I was "straw-man" arguing simply because my objectivity on the matter doesn't suit your bias views for your city. If you can't take it, then don't dish it out. 

And what role of politics have you (& these "others") put out there "quite clearly"? The IOC is a very complex sporting organization that's unlike any other on earth, & even the most experienced pundits out there on the IOC can't seem to get a complete & 'quite clear' grasp on it's very politics to this very day. 

And the 'facts' that I "refuse" to look at that you (& again these 'others', which really is just *one* othe'r' bias Denver supporter) are just throwing out there have nothing to do with what the IOC likes to require from bidding cities. The IOC doesn't care who's GDP is greater or poorer, nor if the guarantees come from borrowed money, as long as the IOC gets what it wants. And that's complete release of liability from whatever cost over-runs a host city could/would incur because of taking on the massive expense of hosting the Olympic Games. That's a reality check that cities that want to go down the IOC road have to realize; the IOC doesn't want to, nor does it share the expense of hosting their 3-week sports extravaganza. And if cities don't like that set-up, nobody is forcing them to bid.


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

parcdesprinces said:


> hno:
> 
> Try at least to use the same data when you compare !
> 
> ...


Be correct, please! According to french wiki it is 190,000 inh! This "metropolitan area" is just an accumulation of some unimportant villages and very small cities!
Compared to Munich it is nothing. 
Following the IOC trend to award the winter games to big CITIES, Annecy will have NO chance!


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## Denver_fan (Mar 10, 2010)

geoone said:


> Excuse me?? What substance are you on?? "Throwing 'insults' your way"?? Like what?? Please stop falsely accusing me of such things when I clearly haven't called you anything. You're the one who started telling me that I was "straw-man" arguing simply because my objectivity on the matter doesn't suit your bias views for your city. If you can't take it, then don't dish it out.
> 
> And what role of politics have you (& these "others") put out there "quite clearly"? The IOC is a very complex sporting organization that's unlike any other on earth, & even the most experienced pundits out there on the IOC can't seem to get a complete & 'quite clear' grasp on it's very politics to this very day.
> 
> And the 'facts' that I "refuse" to look at that you (& again these 'others', which really is just *one* othe'r' bias Denver supporter) are just throwing out there have nothing to do with what the IOC likes to require from bidding cities. The IOC doesn't care who's GDP is greater or poorer, nor if the guarantees come from borrowed money, as long as the IOC gets what it wants. And that's complete release of liability from whatever cost over-runs a host city could/would incur because of taking on the massive expense of hosting the Olympic Games. That's a reality check that cities that want to go down the IOC road have to realize; the IOC doesn't want to, nor does it share the expense of hosting their 3-week sports extravaganza. And if cities don't like that set-up, nobody is forcing them to bid.



'Straw-man argument' is type of argument. I'm not calling you a "straw-man"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Economy and politics are at the core of IOC's decision making. The essence of my argument is a confederation or a unified market exerts pressure on members to be economically prudent and independent smaller states, that don't have such restriction, are more vulnerable if they don't act with prudence. For larger states the problem, in the absence of economic prudence, in the worst possible case, is investors; buying and selling states; and international businesses losing faith in the hard currency of that particular state that runs up large fiscal deficit or borrows excessively.

The situation is clear with the data I provided on the previous page for any smart person to make a judgement call, necessarily subject to unforeseen variations revolving around political relevance of that particular state*, as to which country has a better chance of hosting the Olympics Games.

I did not discard the idea of an European bid winning even though the data (I provided in my post on the previous page) shows worrying signs with the amount a majority of EU member states have borrowed and how the percentage of their borrowing with respect to the size of their economy could force fellow stakeholder EU states to put pressure on that nation to drop the idea until their economy is more financially stable. This issue can not be ignored because doing so may undermine the relevance of the Euro and jeopardize the market stability of the European Union or any other common market union of states.

The question regarding the validity of a government's guarantee in my opinion is questionable at best. The government that will guarantee the games will be subject to the question: is the economy in sound financial health and where will the funds come from: IMF?, World Bank?, businesses and international investors?; will they deliver games of a poorer quality than had originally been sold to the IOC as? You disagree on this point and you are entitled to your opinion. We can agree to disagree and I rest my case.


*profits, potential future market profits due to the size and the rate of growth of the economy in question and romantic reason: it's still a mystery how IOC awarded Nazi Germany the 1936 Olympics


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

GEwinnen said:


> Following the IOC trend to award the winter games to big CITIES, Annecy will have NO chance!


Apparently you missed my last sentence  !!!!!

Anyway, I agree with the fact that Annecy has "NO chance".. but (again), not because of its size :nono: !!


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## Mo Rush (Nov 13, 2004)

geoone said:


> Like really, what kind of signals does the USOC want to get. This is a prestigious mammoth global event that's sought out by many cities throughout the world. Every bid race for the Olympic Games is a lobbying contest, a huge gamble, an enormous campaign endeavor. Every city involved is in it to WIN. So there's really no promises, no guarantees nor any dues that a U.S. bid would win even the next time around. Thinking otherwise is totally not understanding the IOC politics in all varibles.


spot on.


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## Denver_fan (Mar 10, 2010)

Mo Rush said:


> spot on.



The original quote regarding the role of politics is vague and I attempt to specify the factors leading to a decision in my previous post. 

"necessarily subject to unforeseen variations revolving around political relevance of that particular state*, as to which country has a better chance of hosting the Olympics Games...
*profits, potential future market profits due to the size and the rate of growth of the economy in question and romantic reason: it's still a mystery how IOC awarded Nazi Germany the 1936 Olympics"

Factor 1. Profits:
Bottom line money goes a long way (hey I've to pay for my kids college or have a honey on the side). You can bribe IOC members but it may lead to bad aftertaste remember Salt Lake City, UT.

Factor 2. Potential future market profits:
Beijing and Rio. And for this very reason I support South Africa or another African nation's bid to host the next or the next to next unannounced SOG (Summer Olympic Games).

Factor 3. Size and the rate of growth of the economy in question:
Beijing and Rio again.

Factor 4. Romantic reasons:
In more recent memory, supporting members of Manchester, UK for the SOG 2000 bid, voted in favor of Sydney over Beijing in the 4th and final round. This was done inspite of Beijing's success in the 1990 Asian games.

Another example: If we had certain folks that are on this forum in the IOC member panel we would see Canberra-Mont K, Australia receiving votes for the 2018 WOG (Winter Olympic Games). Realistically, however, I could see Scotland and New Zealand having a better chance than the just mentioned choice; besides there are other nations in Eastern Europe that have a solid chance of hosting WOG especially if they fix their infrastructure and economic woes.

Factor 5. Wild card-you scratch my back I'll scratch your back:
Not mentioned in my previous post this factor is as important as factor 1. The reason this is very important is because it's gray area bribery. Imagine South Korea offering more money as incentive to nations that have never won an Olympic medal in exchange for their vote. In another hypothetical example imagine South Korea offering Germany favourable contracts to construct venues for the 2018 WOG in exchange of Munich dropping out of the bidding race the very last minute.


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## pierolol (Apr 29, 2009)

GO ANNECY!!!













Bonus:French enthusiasm


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^ :cheers2: !!!

Allez Annecy Allez !!

one more: 
(3,000 skiers along a run, in Chamonix valley)
[dailymotion]x8fjpg_annecy-2018_sport[/dailymotion]


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

Denver_fan said:


> '
> 
> it's still a mystery how IOC awarded *Nazi Germany* the 1936 Olympics



Wrong. IOC awarded the games to a *democratic Germany in 1931*, Hitler came to power in 1933.
He enlarged the plans for the games massively and built the Olympic Park (Reichssportfeld) from the scratch within two years!


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

@parcdesprinces:

Albertville and Lillehammer were the LAST small cities hosted winter games:

1998 Nagano 1,000,000 (metro area)
2002 Salt Lake City 1,100,000
2006 Torino 2,200,000
2010 Vancouver 2,100,000
2014 Sochi 1,000,000

The only reason for the IOC to reject Munich's bid are the games in 2014 in Europe!
Annecy is 1) in Europe and 2) a small city


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## pierolol (Apr 29, 2009)

^^In annecy region we have more than 3.000 000 beds! french bid is more than annecy city!


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## geoone (Nov 12, 2009)

Denver_fan said:


> 'Straw-man argument' is type of argument. I'm not calling you a "straw-man"
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man


Come on, guy. Give me a f'n break. I know what 'straw man' means. :|

What irks me about it is when people condenscendingly use the term to try & validate their 'argument' when their reasoning & objectivity on the topic at hand is severely blurred (like a horse with blinders on) because of their extreme bias & partiality on the subject. 

Of course economy & politics are at the core of the IOC's decision making (which I've expressed 'quite clearly' already). However, your rhetoric is neither here nor there when it comes time to voting day, since at this point, all the finalist cities that have made it thus far, have already been assessed by your 'points' 1-5 by an IOC Evaluation Commission Panel, that have already more or less given the 'green light' that virtually any of the cities on the ballot can successfully stage the Games. 

After that, it's a free for all. The IOC members (as astute as they are) can then vote on whatever vices tickle their little fancies. Which could even be as trivial that a few members don't like the wardrobe of a certain Bid Delegations outfit at the final presentation. The IOC is made up of 100+ members & each with their own prejudices, national interests, favoristisms, alliances, etc, etc, etc that all come out to play when they're ready to click the ticket on a secret ballot. And for anyone to think that somehow that they'll all vote in unisom (at least in the first round) because a certain choice should seem so obvious to a bias supporter is quite naive. They don't have to explain their vote in any way shape or form. And your point 4 seems to contradict everything that you're blurting out, while your point 5 is rather amusing, considering Denver didn't scratch the IOC's back, but rather stabbed it.


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

pierolol said:


> ^^In annecy region we have more than 3.000 000 beds! french bid is more than annecy city!



:bash: 3,000,000 beds, don't tell such a nonsense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!hno:

Including the 200,000 hotel beds in Paris or what????????????????


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^ Savoy (Savoie + Haute-Savoie) has *1,286,500 beds*  !

Haute-Savoie (Annecy-Genevois-Mont Blanc): *612,500 beds* (hotels + rentals)
udotsi-hautesavoie.fr/hebergement-touristiques

Savoie (Chambéry-Tarentaise-Maurienne): *674,000 beds* (hotels + rentals)
observatoire.savoie.equipement-agriculture.gouv.fr



OK, it's not 3 million but it's still a huge tourism capacity !


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## swifty78 (Nov 10, 2002)

Hey if Matthew thinks Canberra can host without a proper mountain range then Pluto can too


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

swifty78 said:


> Hey if Matthew thinks Canberra can host without a proper mountain range then Pluto can too


Only if we contribute a somewhat wasteful 1 billion to raise a mountain in the perisher blue valley, as well as add a dedicated rail link from the resort to Canberra.

A new major arena can be built with the others being temporary, the AIS Arena is existing.

The ski jump, sliding track, and biathlon course could be built in the outskirts of the territory or closer to the Perisher Valley and can be an AIS training facility post Olympics.

At any rate the environmentalists would definitely be angry and Australian taxpayers too for such a waste of funds for a mediocre event.


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## T74 (Jun 17, 2010)

no way Australia - ever

sure on a good season our slopes are okay (just okay), but a bad year and the snow completely sucks


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## Matthew Lowry (Dec 23, 2009)

Australia is planning to have a bullet train from Canberra to Thredbo it will take 1 hour 20 mins. Australia ski flieds are one of the best in the World and Australia winter Sports are getting big The goverment is dreaming of a winter olympics after the next summer olympics in Australia


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## eMKay (Feb 2, 2007)

Matthew Lowry said:


> Australia ski flieds are one of the best in the World


:lol:


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## T74 (Jun 17, 2010)

Matthew Lowry said:


> Australia is planning to have a bullet train from Canberra to Thredbo it will take 1 hour 20 mins. Australia ski flieds are one of the best in the World and Australia winter Sports are getting big The goverment is dreaming of a winter olympics after the next summer olympics in Australia


I remember I skied once at Buller during one of its best seasons in 20 years. we have powder, a good base, it was lots of fun

I then went to Colorado. I was warned, they were having the worst season in 20 years.......it was still better than Buller at its best

Australia barely has a Winter Olympics training program, and is debating upgrading training facilities. We do not have the need or want for the infrastructure a winter olympics will demand.


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## Sportsfan (Jul 26, 2009)

It's all academic. There is not a snowy mountain in Australia that has the start to finish altitude drop that is required for a Winter Olympic Downhill Course. There is no way in hell that a mountain will be "built" so just forget it.

Back on topic - Surely Annecy should just give up now after the latest IOC meeting begrudgingly kept them in the race despite massive inadequacies in their scattered plan. It smells a bit that the IOC didn't dismiss the bid. Somehow, me thinks that they want to split the European vote to give PyeongChang the best chance possible. Korea (and more importantly major IOC sponsor and Korean company, Samsung) will be most displeased to be overlooked for a third straight time.


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## TheoG (Mar 20, 2010)

Matthew Lowry said:


> Australia is planning to have a bullet train from Canberra to Thredbo it will take 1 hour 20 mins. Australia ski flieds are one of the best in the World and Australia winter Sports are getting big The goverment is dreaming of a winter olympics after the next summer olympics in Australia


For a start, an Australian winter olympics would be in the Northern Hemisphere summer, which, for the big winter sports countries, would clash with various other events - for example the World Cup. As well as this, the time zones would be very inconvenient for the big winter sports fanbase.

The Australians would be very lucky to get any snow as well - I lived in Canberra for a few years and I don't recall it snowing, only a little in the mountains. Another huge factor would be the fact that there is no mountain tall enough to host winter olympic skiing events, and there would be major uproar if someone decided to build one.

And Thredbo, which you mentioned, is half way to Melbourne, why not host it there instead? The fact of the matter is, nobody would allow a winter olympics where the alpine events were 200km away from the host city, and when you got there, there would be a) no mountain and b) no snow. Australia will never host a winter olympics, unless there is some massive natural disaster where the mountains double in size and snow starts falling by the bucketload, which is difficult with average temperatures of about 10 degrees


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## Matthew Lowry (Dec 23, 2009)

Ive been to France and South Korea and i was born in Munich, Germany.

South Korea is a very boring country to vist. South Korea is a country that works in factorys if you want to ski in Asia then go to Japan and CChina.

It would be Annecy or Munich but im investing big money on Munich + Germany will win the Games becouse the Last time that we hosted the winter Olympics was in the NAZI times in 1936. in that time France hosted 2 winter olympics in 1968 and 1992. i was 8 in 1992.

The next time that France will host the Olympics will be in 2044 in Paris.
The snow cluster Garmisch-Partenkirchen is only 45 mins away.
The Munich 2018 winter games would cost 1.6 billion US$ it cost more to build a railway line in Perth, Australia
MUNICH 2018


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## TheoG (Mar 20, 2010)

Matthew Lowry said:


> Ive been to France and South Korea and i was born in Munich, Germany.


Here we go again... 
I've also been to France - just Lille instead of Annency
It's all well and good going to France but it's a big country - if you've been to Paris, it doesn't mean it's the same as Annency, same with South Korea 



> South Korea is a very boring country to vist. South Korea is a country that works in factorys if you want to ski in Asia then go to Japan and CChina.


No offence, but I find Munich a bit dull, yet I'm still supporting them for 2018. Maybe some good ski resorts and sports venues will liven Pyeongchang a bit, if you find it so dull.



> It would be Annecy or Munich but im investing big money on Munich + Germany will win the Games becouse the Last time that we hosted the winter Olympics was in the NAZI times in 1936. in that time France hosted 2 winter olympics in 1968 and 1992. i was 8 in 1992.


 Sure Germany hasn't hosted the winter olympics in a while, but that's probably because they don't have as many mountains and winter sports facilities as France - remember that Germany is primarily a summer sport nation, unlike places like Switzerland, Southern France, Northern Italy, Austria, Scandinavia, Canada etc.

And I wouldn't put so much money on Munich winning yet - Pyeongchang will give it a close battle, but I wouldn't see Annency as a favourite - they IOC made it fairly clear that they viewed this as the third best bid when announcing the candidate cities. 



> The next time that France will host the Olympics will be in 2044 in Paris.


Nah, I bet they'll get a summer one, if not a winter games as well, in the next few decades. But, as you can tell, I don't enjoy predicting too far ahead, for fear of being horribly innaccurate. I'm not really sure at all who's gonna host 2020, let alone 2044, 2072 or beyond.


> The snow cluster Garmisch-Partenkirchen is only 45 mins away.
> The Munich 2018 winter games would cost 1.6 billion US$ it cost more to build a railway line in Perth, Australia
> MUNICH 2018


If you don't mind me asking, what do railway lines in Perth have to do with the Munich 2018 Olympic Bid?


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

TheoG said:


> I've also been to France - just Lille instead of Annency
> It's all well and good going to France but it's a big country -


Ski runs in Northern France near Lille :yes: (slag heap skiing ) :


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## TheoG (Mar 20, 2010)

parcdesprinces said:


> Ski runs in Northern France near Lille :yes: (slag heap skiing ) :


:lol: Not sure it'll ever host the winter olympics though...
There's a good dry slope near me in Crowbrough too...
















I'm sure Mr Lowry will now be willing on Crowbrough for 2022


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## T74 (Jun 17, 2010)

TheoG said:


> :lol: Not sure it'll ever host the winter olympics though...
> There's a good dry slope near me in Crowbrough too...
> 
> 
> ...


Look at his list....Crowbrough is 2072 :nuts:


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

TheoG said:


> I'm sure Mr Lowry will now be willing on Crowbrough for 2022


That's why I have to show again what Annecy really is (including Chamonix Mont-Blanc Valley) :cheers:



parcdesprinces said:


> Here are some pics taken by myself of Annecy, Chamonix-Mont-Blanc and their beautifull region (Savoy):
> 
> 
> 
> ...





parcdesprinces said:


> Some more pics of Annecy and Haute Savoie:


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## Matthew Lowry (Dec 23, 2009)

Crowbrough will never host the games. atlest my cities that ive put on my listy have good chane of hosting the Games Eeven Bangkok will host the Olympic by the time am 56 in 2040 and Canberra in the longshort.

If annecy host the Games then Pleas have the Opening and closing ceremony in Albertville the host of the 1992 winter olympics 47km away from annecy. But annecy needs a lot of work.

The Only thing that Munich needs doing is an Ice hockey Sadia and the Media and Athletics village and update the venus in Garmisch-Partenkirchen.

The Muinch 2018 games would be the Cheepst games ever


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## swifty78 (Nov 10, 2002)

As cheap as you


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## kichigai (May 9, 2005)

Please delete.


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## TheoG (Mar 20, 2010)

Matthew Lowry said:


> Crowbrough will never host the games. atlest my cities that ive put on my listy have good chane of hosting the Games Eeven Bangkok will host the Olympic by the time am 56 in 2040 and Canberra in the longshort.


:lol: Did you really think we were being serious? Anyway, Crowbrough might be the biggest city in the world by 2050, you never know. They'll be the next Dubai 
Still kinda proud that Ive managed to bring Crowbrough, population about 10,000, to some sort of global attention :lol: 



> If annecy host the Games then Pleas have the Opening and closing ceremony in Albertville the host of the 1992 winter olympics 47km away from annecy. But annecy needs a lot of work.


Think about it, why would they host the ceremonies in Albertville. It's like if Crowbrough hosted the ceremonies in Tenterden, it's about an hours drive away, and it's hardly any bigger.  



> The Only thing that Munich needs doing is an Ice hockey Sadia and the Media and Athletics village and update the venus in Garmisch-Partenkirchen.
> 
> The Muinch 2018 games would be the Cheepst games ever


The only thing Crowbrough needs to build is a mountain, the Crowbrough 2022 games would be the cheapest ever :lol:


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## corredor06 (Oct 13, 2008)

South Korea


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

TheoG said:


> Still kinda proud that Ive managed to bring Crowbrough, population about 10,000, to some sort of global attention :lol:


:lol: BTW, I've been searching on Google/wiki... and the answer was "do you mean: Crowborough, Sussex"...Is it the same place ?? :dunno:


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## kebli13 (Jan 24, 2010)




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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Gondolier said:


> but about swinging the Games around to the various regions of the globe.


Which ones.. for example ??? (except Europe, North America and Northeast Asia)


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## geoone (Nov 12, 2009)

^^Clever attempt at deflection.

Considering though, that the Winter Olympics have been to North America & Europe TWICE (including the next Winter Games) since the last time they went to Asia, it's only logical that the next 'swing' should be Asia's turn.


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## Geography (May 17, 2010)

I don't know if anyone has brought this up in the 25 pages of this thread, but what about Harbin, China? I heard they were contemplating a bid for a Winter Olympics. Do they think it's too soon after Beijing 2008? Also, are there enough mountains around Harbin?


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## swifty78 (Nov 10, 2002)

China hostng Youth Games in Nanjing 2014 so maybe not too much an issue?


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## Calvin W (Nov 5, 2005)

Would love to see New Zealand host, or even Australia, though the timing might be a bit out? Could maybe do an August or September Olympics.


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## Gondolier (Apr 30, 2010)

Geography said:


> I don't know if anyone has brought this up in the 25 pages of this thread, but what about Harbin, China? I heard they were contemplating a bid for a Winter Olympics. Do they think it's too soon after Beijing 2008? Also, are there enough mountains around Harbin?


At the next '08 for the Winters, China will bid (since the years ending in "8" are reserved for Asian Olympics). Further, 

#1 - You have to bid.

#2 - They will bid when they are good and ready. They just have to cool off their romance with the IOC. It got too hot and heavy with their 2008 affair.


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## Gondolier (Apr 30, 2010)

parcdesprinces said:


> Which ones.. for example ??? (except Europe, North America and Northeast Asia)


Well obviously, the SOGs are distributed more evenly...whereas the WOGs can realistically only happen in those 3 regions...and they have to throw in an Asian WOG there every generation... just as a SOG has to return to Europe every 3rd time , and a WOG comes to the US every 20 years or so (1960, 1980, 2002). So, by all rights, 2018 ought to be an Asian WOG turn.


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## Locust (Apr 29, 2005)

It's about time for an asian country to host the winter games...
Also, South Korea did pretty well in Vancouver (5th by Gold ).
By all possible measures; infrastructure, experience in hosting a myriad of
higher caliber events, etc... S. Korea merits a chance...

This is PC's third try.... I would say PC 2018 and Munich 2022 would be fair...


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Gondolier said:


> and a WOG comes to the US every 20 years or so (1960, 1980, 2002)


I agree !!! It's just a shame !!!!

But, I think France could (almost ) be as ashamed as the US should be about that :

:bowtie:
1924.................1968, 1992, 2018........

But, unlike the US, we (France) have given this wonderful competition to the world... :bowtie:


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## swifty78 (Nov 10, 2002)

Gondolier said:


> At the next '08 for the Winters, China will bid (since the years ending in "8" are reserved for Asian Olympics). Further,
> 
> I have thought the same too, Seoul 88, Nagano 98, Beijing 08...


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## eomer (Nov 15, 2003)

parcdesprinces said:


> Which ones.. for example ??? (except Europe, North America and Northeast Asia)



South America for exemple...but Mountains are only 6 000 m high.
New Zealand could host Winter Olympics Games too


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^ Yeah, indeed, but when ??

I mean, first of all: in what season ? And secondly: do they have any winter sport tradition ? 

e.g. New Zealand to host winter games: I'd love to see it (really) !! But not before they become a significant winter sport nation ! (otherwise, they'll just look like Qatar trying to host the FIFA WC..imho) !!!


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## Gondolier (Apr 30, 2010)

eomer said:


> South America for exemple...but Mountains are only 6 000 m high.
> New Zealand could host Winter Olympics Games too


It is difficult for the Southern hemisphere to host...not impossible...but the WOG calendar is geared to the training regimen of the northern hemisphere athletes. 

Also, the TV schedule favors a northern winter. You cannot have a Winter Games telecast in the middle or at the end of a northern hem. summer. The traditional winter sponsors will not be there to sponsor a WOGs in July-Aug-September. 

So a WOG in the South will throw the whole winter calendar off.


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## Gondolier (Apr 30, 2010)

parcdesprinces said:


> I agree !!! It's just a shame !!!!
> 
> But, I think France could (almost ) be as ashamed as the US should be about that :
> 
> ...


U r so silly. The Albertville Games were NOT the greatest.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Gondolier said:


> The Albertville Games were NOT the greatest.


Did I wrote (or even mentioned) something about that ?? hno:


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Annecy strikes back  :



> *Pernilla Wiberg joins Annecy 2018 team*
> 
> *The two-time Swedish Olympic alpine skiing champion and former IOC member will become an ambassador for the bid.*
> 
> ...


annecy2018.com (10/22/2010)



> Former Swedish IOC member and two-time Olympic skiing champion Pernilla Wiberg, now a Monaco resident, did appear to voice her support of the bid.
> It is unusual for an athlete of a different nationality to be part of the core bid team, and Wiberg, who is from the same country as Evaluation Commission chair Gunilla Lindberg, was Grospiron's secret weapon. "Nobody knew before," he said. "She was like a surprise."


aroundtherings.com (10/21/2010)


(I've always loooooved Swedish women :yes: :lovethem


--------




> *Annecy 2018 surges in race for 2018 Winter Games in Acapulco with ultra-compact, high-performance concept*
> 
> *"Sport can change lives, Annecy will change yours!» Swedish Alpine Skiing legend and former IOC Member Pernilla Wiberg joins "Team Annecy 2018" on stage in front of the National Olympic Committees' General Assembly*
> 
> ...


sportsfeatures.com (10/22/2010)


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

@french mates:

Save your money for a Paris summer games bid, Annecy will lose in rd 1 with just a very few votes!

The only chance for Europe to get the 2018 WOG is MUNICH.


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## hmueller2 (Feb 3, 2009)

I would love Munich 2018, especially for Germany as a great wintersport nation hosting the WOG.
But it will probably Pyeonchang 2018 and Munich 2022. 
Well, I wouldn't say no to that


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

GEwinnen said:


> @french mates:
> 
> Save your money for a Paris summer games bid, Annecy will lose in rd 1 with just a very few votes!
> 
> The only chance for Europe to get the 2018 WOG is MUNICH.


Indeed. If there was another bid in the mix, say Almaty (even when taking into account the closeness to Sochi), then Annecy might have been tossed out the window (the candidate acceptance report highly recommended Annecy to compact it's bid). Or maybe Annecy might still be accepted with that recommendation, but it would still rank last.


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## Gondolier (Apr 30, 2010)

Foolish Annencians. The French Olympic Committee is just humoring them in an attempt to really set Paris up for 2024.


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## Mr.Underground (Jan 15, 2007)

Is a two horse race between Munich against Pyeongchang? 

Do you think Annecy will have any possibilities?

And I'm for Munich. :cheers:


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Lord David said:


> Indeed. If there was another bid in the mix, say Almaty (even when taking into account the closeness to Sochi), then Annecy might have been tossed out the window (the candidate acceptance report highly recommended Annecy to compact it's bid). Or maybe Annecy might still be accepted with that recommendation, but it would still rank last.


The Qatar 2022 bid team will show us the way, mate !! 
(and, unlike Qatar about football, keep in mind that France is the founding nation of the Olympic Movement, not to mention that the French Alps have already hosted the Winter Olympic Games 3 times).


Anyway, it's not because you've never heard of Annecy & Chamonix before that they are incapable to host the WOG ! 

Annecy & Chamonix-Mont-Blanc are part of Savoy=One of the wealthiest French regions.......region which is the first and largest winter sports destination in the world BTW  ....


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## GTR66 (Aug 3, 2010)

hngcm said:


> There's no way the games are coming to Denver.


Why not Denver has nearly everything needed to host the olympics. Maybe lacking in the money category but who cares. People will come and spend money and taxes will come form that.


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## Bobby3 (Jun 26, 2007)

GTR66 said:


> Why not Denver has nearly everything needed to host the olympics. Maybe lacking in the money category but who cares. People will come and spend money and taxes will come form that.


Denver was selected to host the 1976 edition of the games, and then spurned them when they realized that it would cost a lot more than they originally intended. This left the IOC in a tight spot. Eventually Innsbruck was lined up as a replacement -- though Salt Lake did offer its services.

Since then Denver hasn't exactly been on the IOC's Christmas card list.


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## danVan (May 16, 2007)

Dubai or Doha should host the games


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## okulaja (Oct 7, 2010)

danVan said:


> Dubai or Doha should host the games


Dubai 2024


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## Mr.Underground (Jan 15, 2007)

okulaja said:


> Dubai 2024


Dubai has a ski run, called Ski Dubai, in a shopping mall, so could be have a possibility for a strange international race.


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## swifty78 (Nov 10, 2002)

Yeah with Qatar's money they should be able to build a massive indoor alpine area suitable for all the skiing .....


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Bobby3 said:


> Denver was selected to host the 1976 edition of the games, and then spurned them when they realized that it would cost a lot more than they originally intended. This left the IOC in a tight spot. Eventually Innsbruck was lined up as a replacement -- though Salt Lake did offer its services.
> 
> Since then Denver hasn't exactly been on the IOC's Christmas card list.


That was only part of the answer, the city's people voted no for the games not only because of cost concerns (I'm sure costings would have been finalized during the bid), but also due to the Environmental factor. People started to want to go green I guess, and the ski jumps, bob-luge runs etc would have caused a considerable environmental imprint.

Salt Lake City, which lost in the domestic race offered to host, the USOC refused, they went for Lake Placid (look at the 1980 Olympic report). I'd assume it's merely due to the fact that 3 core venues (speed skating oval, bob-luge tracks, ski jumps) would have merely been needed for reconstruction (though 3-4 years (at the point Denver voted no) is a tight squeeze to build everything necessary for the Olympics). Then of course you'd probably have the Olympic Center come in 4 years earlier than it should have.

All this of course was refused by the IOC. They offered Vancouver, one of the bidding cities for 1976 to host, but a change in government would most likely not have secured any significant funds to hastily build by the time the Olympics came. I'd assume the soaring costs and delays with regards to Montreal's Summer Olympic preparations also played it's part.

In the end they went and looked for a recent host, but someone not too recent, this ended up being Innsbruck, who although didn't bid, happily went and hosted the 1976 Winter Olympics.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

okulaja said:


> Dubai 2024





Mr.Underground said:


> Dubai has a ski run, called Ski Dubai, in a shopping mall, so could be have a possibility for a strange international race.


2024 is a Summer Olympics year. Unless they decide to change the rules just so it could celebrate the 100th year anniversary of the Winter Olympics with some city hosting, expect it to be a city with deep winter sports tradition, perhaps going back to France, the original hosts again.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Lord David said:


> perhaps going back to France, the original hosts again.


:yes: the same year as Paris hosting the summer games for the centennial anniversary of Paris 1924 ! :banana:

Paris 1924
Chamonix 1924
Paris 2024
Chamonix 2024

:lol:


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## Alphaville (Nov 28, 2007)

Actually that could work against Paris. 

The IOC has generally been very non-supportive of cities hosting centennials from a previous Olympics staged there. Think about it; coming into a new century where nearly every Olympiad (bar 2040 and 2044) marks a 100th anniversary, it could set an awkward precedent for the IOC.

The same goes for cities bidding for Olympics in a specific year to help celebrate an event of national importance. I have a book on the history of the Australian Olympic movement, and I remember a point made about Melbourne's (later withdrawn) bid for the 1988 Olympics. Initially they had pushed for the sentiment of it being staged in Australia's Bicentennial year, but the AOC was reluctant for this to be emphasised. Instead we had Brisbane stage Expo in 1988.

I'd rather Paris go for 2020.


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

swifty78 said:


> Yeah with Qatar's money they should be able to build a massive indoor alpine area suitable for all the skiing .....


The Winter Olympics are the only world wide sports event the rich arabian countries will never get!!!!!!!!

btw, PC will get the 2018 WOG in the first ballot, money rules the world (and the international sports organisations).


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

parcdesprinces said:


> :yes: the same year as Paris hosting the summer games for the centennial anniversary of Paris 1924 ! :banana:
> 
> Paris 1924
> Chamonix 1924
> ...


I'd expect Chamonix to host some sort of "unofficial" winter sports festival in 2024 to celebrate the centenary.


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## Mr.Underground (Jan 15, 2007)

*Videos about the three bids*

Video ufficiale di Annecy 2018:






Monaco 2018:






Pyeongchang 2018:






Tutti e tre i video uniti in un unico video:


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

And now for something completely different: sports!


thun said:


> Munich shows that it is indeed a winter sports city!
> At the moment: FIS Alpine World Cup Parallel Slalom at the Olympiaberg: 25,000 visitors.
> 
> 
> ...


By the way: It's impossible to watch the Munich candidature video in Germany due to copyright issues...:wallbash::weird:


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## pierolol (Apr 29, 2009)

*Annecy 2018*




































































































http://www.facebook.com/pages/Annecy-2018/42976218792


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## Gondolier (Apr 30, 2010)

parcdesprinces said:


> :yes: the same year as Paris hosting the summer games for the centennial anniversary of Paris 1924 ! :banana:
> 
> Paris 1924
> Chamonix 1924


Actually recognizing Chamonix 1924 as the 1st WOG was an after-the-fact. When that event played, it was NOT called the 1st Winter Olympic Games. It was a retroactive recognition -- so either in 1925 or 1926. I'm too lazy to look it up now.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^ And so ???

Yeah, yeah, I know, France never created the Modern Olympics (summer & winter ones) hno: !


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

Too sad for you. 

Anyway, on monday the FIS Alpine World Championships will start in Garmisch-Partenkirchen, the venue for the 2018 Alpine competitions.  This event should be a huge advantage for the Munich application, given the fact that it takes place only a few months before the decision.
But most important, I'm looking forward to see fantastic races and a good atmosphere.


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

Today: opening ceremony for the Alpine world championships in Garmisch-Partenkirchen giving a teaser of the olympics 2018:


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## pierolol (Apr 29, 2009)

*Annecy 2018
*







*Annecy 2018 IOC Inspection - Day One*


On day one of the International Olympic Committee's (IOC) Evaluation Commission's inspection of Annecy 2018 there were presentations covering the themes of Vision, Legacy and Communications, the overall Games Concept, Sports and Sites, the Paralympic Games, Olympic Villages, Environment and Meteorology, and Accommodations and Transport.
Both the Annecy and Chamonix hubs will host ice and snow competitions in venues in the heart of Annecy and in the resorts.

Pamilla Wilberg, Vice President of Annecy 2018 and a legendary alpine skier said, "I have experienced four Olympic Games, but the most memorable were the Lillehammer Games. Annecy is the only place I have ever found the same compact, intimate feel".

According to a press release, Annecy 2018 said it aims to prepare for the future "by promoting a sustainable approach to the Winter Games, with more eco-friendly infrastructures and eco-resorts, and by leaving the region a unique legacy of expertise and sports infrastructures which will become a part of its economic development and inspire young people around the world to get involved in sports".

Thursday the evaluation commission will visit La Clusaz and Le Grand Bornand.

http://www.gamesbids.com/eng/winter_olympic_bids/annecy_2018/1216135552.html


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## Musubi (Dec 27, 2008)

..


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## matts67 (Sep 30, 2009)

Musubi said:


> 2009 Biathlon world championship in Pyeongchang


Hmmm...where is the snow?:nuts:


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

matts67 said:


> Hmmm...where is the snow?:nuts:


Under the skis !


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## Леонид (Jan 11, 2008)

I hope Santiago de Chile applies for the games... or Denver would be nice .. but for the winter games to go back to europe, I mean if we're talking about continent rotation Peong Yang has this one in the bag ...


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## Axelferis (Jan 18, 2008)

France bid will be a total fail. Even here people are pessimistic


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## pierolol (Apr 29, 2009)

yes...annecy it's the preparation for the parisian bid for 2020 or 2024...


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## Musubi (Dec 27, 2008)

..


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Well, this can't have helped:

_With just three months to the decisive vote in Durban for the 2018 Olympic Winter Games, Annecy's deputy director general Herve Madore has left the bid.

As noted in French press sources Sport.fr and RMCSport, Madore was dealing with operational administrative duties and cites internal conflicts as the cause of his resignation. The news came just as the bid team were in London at SportAccord for key presentations to the Olympic Family._

http://www.sportsfeatures.com/olymp...-deputy-director-general-herve-madore-resigns


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## Леонид (Jan 11, 2008)

I would say that the winter olympics needs to be held in a new country if you see the list of host cities every country has had the olympics for 2 or 3 times .. making that each country repeats itself in a given moment.. so the winter games needs more diversity .. I mean US - 4 times, France - 3, Switzerland, Italy, Norway, Canada, Japan and Austria - 2 times ... only being held in a new country in 36 - Germany, 84- Sarajevo and 2014 - Russia ... so for me this needs new places and countries ... I like the Peong Yang bid .. it's different!


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## Mo Rush (Nov 13, 2004)

Axelferis said:


> France bid will be a total fail. Even here people are pessimistic


This happens when you choose the wrong city  Go Nice!


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## Mo Rush (Nov 13, 2004)

thun said:


> Today: opening ceremony for the Alpine world championships in Garmisch-Partenkirchen giving a teaser of the olympics 2018:


who dare denies Munich!


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## Musubi (Dec 27, 2008)

..


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Although it hasn't been in Germany for a very long time, I prefer seeing the Olympics go where it hasn't before. If workable bids arise outside of Europe and north America, the IOC should take it. South Korea sounds great.


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## Gondolier (Apr 30, 2010)

Musubi said:


> This train will arrive in Munich in 2018!


From where? Wow! So it'll go what? at a rate of .5km/day? :lol:


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## pierolol (Apr 29, 2009)

New promo

[dailymotion]xi7uwn?[/dailymotion]


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## Mr.Underground (Jan 15, 2007)

*IOC Announces 2018 Olympic Bid Election Schedule in Durban*

On Thursday the International Olympic Committee (IOC) published the schedule for the organization's 123rd Session to be held in Durban, South Africa from July 4th to July 9th, 2011. * On July 6 the IOC members will elect the host for the 2018 Olympic Winter Games.*

The event will take place at Durban's International Convention Centre (ICC) and organizers expect up to 400 members of the press and additional international broadcast media. The IOC will be producing a live, high-definition broadcast of the bid city presentations, press conferences, election vote and final announcement cereomony that will be made available for television coverage.

Munich in Germany, Annecy in France and PyeongChang in South Korea are the three candidates vying for the hosting rights to the Games in 2018. They will make final, live presentations to the voting IOC members before the final election.

*The following is the schedule for July 6, in local Durban time, as published by the IOC.*

*8.30-8.45 a.m.* President’s opening remarks and Opening of the 123rd IOC Session - followed by the presentations of the 2018 Candidate Cities 

*8.45-9.55 a.m.* Presentation by Munich, Germany

*10.10 a.m.* Media conference by Munich, Germany

*10.25–11.35 a.m.* Presentation by Annecy, France

*11.50 a.m.* Media conference by Annecy, France

*12.05–1.15 p.m.* Presentation by PyeongChang, South Korea

*1.30 p.m.* Media conference by PyeongChang, South Korea

*2.45–3.15 p.m.* Report by the IOC Evaluation Commission

*3.35–3.50 p.m.* Vote and election of the host city for the XXIII Olympic Winter Games in 2018

*5-5.30 p.m.* Announcement ceremony of the host city for the XXIII Olympic Winter Games in 2018

*6-6.45 p.m. * Signature of the Host City Contract and joint IOC/host city media conference
*
The three cities are also scheduled to make presentations to the IOC May 18th in Lausanne. The IOC will release an evaluation report based on submitted bid books and site inspections on May 10.*


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

By the way, the inhabitants of Garmisch-Partenkirchen agreed in today's referendum with the plans for 2018.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

pierolol said:


> yes...annecy it's the preparation for the parisian bid for 2020 or 2024...


That's a load of crap. Pardon my French. 

A city's bid for a Winter Olympics does not affect another city's aspirations for a Summer Olympics (or vice versa), unless they lose.

What will happen is what we've always seen, should Paris bid for 2020 or 2024 upon a failed Annecy, then they will get the sympathy vote card, because they can clearly host and as a sort of consolation for losing their previous Winter Olympics bid (although this has mostly been the other way around for most cities and countries). Annecy chose to bid for a Winter Olympics knowing such possibilities and the French Olympic Committee put their bid forward knowing this.


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## Mr.Underground (Jan 15, 2007)

Evaluation report:

http://www.olympic.org/Documents/Co...on_Commission/FINAL_DRAFT_2018_EV_COM-ENG.pdf


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## p2bsa (Oct 5, 2005)

*Olympics Royal Show for Durban*
June 3 2011 at 02:21pm

SUREN NAIDOO 

Durban will be at the centre of global sport when it hosts the International Olympic Committee’s (IOC) 123rd Session in the first week of July with about 2500 top world sport administrators, royalty, government leaders and media expected to descend on the city. 

Marking the 30-day countdown to the event yesterday, IOC executive member Sam Ramsamy said the eyes of the sports world would be on Durban. 

“Heads of state, royalty, ministers and former ministers, leading international sports administrators, heads of international corporate companies and sports stars make up the illustrious membership of the IOC. It will be the first time that such a group will be assembling at once in South Africa,” he said. 

Ramsamy said besides the widely publicised presence of the newly-wed royal couple of Prince Albert II of Monaco and wife Charlene Wittstock, other royalty expected to attend include the UK’s Princess Anne, the Grand Duke of Luxembourg, Netherland’s Prince of Orange, the Crown Prince of Denmark, and various Arab royal families. 

Sepp Blatter – the controversially re-elected Fifa president is also expected to be in town, together with IOC boss Jacques Rogge and former Fifa president Joao Havelange. Other leading sports bosses set to attend include IAAF president, Lamine Diack; International Tennis Federation president, Francesco Ricci Bitti; and, International Cycling Federation president, Pat McQuaid. 

*Ramsamy said the highlight of the IOC meeting, which takes place from July 2-9 at Durban’s International Convention Centre, would be the announcement of the winning bid city to host the 2018 Winter Olympics. 

“The three cities bidding for the privilege are Munich (Germany), Annecy (France) and PyeongChang (South Korea). The cities are expected to bring huge bid delegations and the winning host city will be elected in a secret IOC ballot on July 6. We have already had confirmation that German president (Christian Wulff) and South Korean presidents (Lee Myung-bak) are also expected to be in Durban to support their country’s bids,” he said. *
“This event is the biggest biannual meeting of leaders in global sport. Having been born in Durban, this is indeed a great delight and honour that we can host such a high profile event in this city. 

“In the 117 years of the IOC, this event has never been hosted in Africa. To host this event in our country and knowing how cities and countries vie to host the IOC Session, Durban is certainly fortunate. This gives me an opportunity to personally welcome my colleagues to the city where I was born,” said Ramsamy. 

Gideon Sam, president of the SA Sports Confederation and Olympic Committee (Sascoc), said the country’s hosting of the IOC Session was of huge significance. 

“I cannot emphasise just how big an honour for South Africa it is to be afforded the privilege of hosting this… It’s the first time that it is coming to the African continent since the very first Session in Paris, France back in 1894. That's how big a deal it is,” he said. 

Durban mayor designate James Nxumalo said: “This event is going to be huge for our city and it’s really exciting. We are delight to host this prestigious IOC meeting and all the leaders and royalty that will come along and get the international spotlight on Durban,” he said. 

Ramsamy said in the first week of July “Durban was going to be rocking” with events around the IOC session, including Prince Albert celebrating his wedding by hosting a VIP reception at the Oyster Box Hotel for IOC members and with President Jacob Zuma, other government leaders and friends (July7). He said other events were being planned by the tourism authorities, but were under wraps. 

Tourism bosses are predicting a money-spinning week for Durban with most IOC delegates expected to jet in on the Saturday that the city hosts the famous Vodacom Durban July horserace. Organisers have strategically themed the race as “A Royal Affair” this year. 

Ramsamy said bidding cities for the 2018 Olympics were going all out with one even contemplating flying in the bid delegation and throngs of supporters directly to Durban’s King Shaka International Airport on a giant A380 Airbus. 

He said Sascoc had spoken to the Airports Company of South Africa to ensure what happened during the World Cup semi final at King Shaka did not happen during the IOC Session. Government had appointed an inter-ministerial committee to oversee preparations for the event. 

Meanwhile, Ramsamy said he was disappointed about the government’s decision not to bid for the 2020 Olympic Games. At 73, he said he wanted to see South Africa or at least Africa host the Olympics in his lifetime. Ramsamy said he was very confident the country would bid for the 2024 games. 

- http://www.themercury.co.za/olympics-royal-show-for-durban-1.1078378


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## repin (Apr 14, 2010)

*Good luck for Asia*


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## castermaild55 (Sep 8, 2005)

I think south korea has a problem of alpine skiing competition because lack of snow and low mountain. most korean skiing slope is by artificial snow


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

@repin:

I remember pictures like this:










Harbin wants to bid for the 2022 WOG, I guess the chinese OC doesn't want the games in Korea. They will support a european bid.
Annecy as a competitor is too weak, Munich will win this!


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## swifty78 (Nov 10, 2002)

We shall all find out next week


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## hmueller2 (Feb 3, 2009)

Let's see who can bribe better


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

Nowadays, no alpine world cup competition relies on natural snow anymore. Same is true for nordic skiing. The only problem would be that images like the one above really aren't appealing for the audience as one expects a winter wonderland.


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## ikarus360 (Oct 20, 2007)

GEwinnen said:


> Harbin wants to bid for the 2022 WOG, I guess the chinese OC doesn't want the games in Korea. They will support a european bid.
> Annecy as a competitor is too weak, Munich will win this!


Don't forget there are probably going to be some europeans voting for Pyeongchang in order to stop an impending bid from Tokyo for the 2020 SOG (so Rome or Madrid would have more chances).

I think this is a very close race between Munich and PC (Annecy doesn't have any chances, deal with it XD), both of them have huge probabilities of winning.


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## swifty78 (Nov 10, 2002)

Im still going for PC tho I think Munich will pip them at the post


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

ikarus360 said:


> Don't forget there are probably going to be some europeans voting for Pyeongchang in order to stop an impending bid from Tokyo for the 2020 SOG (so Rome or Madrid would have more chances).
> 
> I think this is a very close race between Munich and PC (Annecy doesn't have any chances, deal with it XD), both of them have huge probabilities of winning.


Annecy's got the sympathy votes factor and those who want to avoid a Paris 2020 bid. They might not win, but could kick out PC on the first round because of this.


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## adeaide (Sep 16, 2008)

*2018 P Y E O N G C H A N G*








There are some information of bidding cities , Please visit below URL.


http://cafe.daum.net/stade/5BXH/50


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Although I don't believe in that bid... I'll nevertheless try to present/defend it :bowtie::































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*---------------*



[DAILYMOTION]xi7uwn_carte-postale-sport_travel[/DAILYMOTION]

[DAILYMOTION]xjgos8_sncf-annecy-2018-mont-blanc-hiking-and-itw-with-charles-beigbeder_sport[/DAILYMOTION]












---

*CLICK --> *


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## dacrio (Jan 30, 2009)

annecy's project is not bad. I like it. and if annecy passes the first round of voting could win.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Annecy better win! I got their 3 file Candidate books and of course should they win, that would mean that these books increase in value!


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

I'm still wondering why Annecy is candidating when Chamonix would be the more obvious choice in terms of international reputation when it is a venue anyway.

Still. Munich has to get it!


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

^^ Simple. The Ceremonies are to be held by the lake which is located in Annecy. Rules stipulate that opening and closing ceremonies are to be held in the host city in question, although events can be held throughout the region.

Not to mention that a considerable number of sports are to be held in Annecy.


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## pierolol (Apr 29, 2009)

annecy 2018!:banana::banana: however pyeongchang will win it!!! 

but for 2022 it's time for the southern hemispher... santiago de chile 2022!!!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/magofu2000/5882770410/sizes/l/in/photostream/


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## Mr.Underground (Jan 15, 2007)

I think best bid book was Munich one. The Olympic park transformed in an Ice park and the city, during the event can offer more than PyeongChang.

PyeongChang is a typical asian bid, a lot to realize, the venues and an hig speed railways. I' d prefer to see in 2022, in Harbin, an asiatic winter games edition, to see the strange Olympic stadium proposed just few days ago but I think, at the end, that South Korea will host this games.

I hope in Munich but the fight is very very hard.


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## GEwinnen (Mar 3, 2006)

Rumors on german tv now: Annecy got just one vote:nuts:


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## WFInsider (Oct 27, 2010)

Congratulations from Russia!


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## adeaide (Sep 16, 2008)

Pyongchang : 63 votes

Munich : 25 votes

Annecy : 7 votes


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## rodem (Apr 6, 2010)




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## pierolol (Apr 29, 2009)

Congratulations PC!!!!


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Indeed, from one Olympic host country to another, congratulations!


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## rodem (Apr 6, 2010)




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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

..


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## adeaide (Sep 16, 2008)




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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

GEwinnen said:


> Olympic games in a small village on artificial snow in stormy and rainy conditions, congratulations, IOC!!hno:
> 
> This was a decision made by money, congrats for the new white elephants in the korean nowhere!!!hno:


What are you on about? Perhaps you need to look at this:






The plan will have temporary venues in the PyeongChang region that will be moved elsewhere. Others will be retained as national training venues.

You might consider the sliding venue for example to be a potential white elephant, but considering the only other one in Asia is in Nagano, Japan, then it's clear as to why the PyeongChang bid team decided to make it a permanent venue as opposed to temporary (it was temporary in their last 2 bids).

What money? If this was their first time bidding, then one could suspect so, but it's their 3rd time. They clearly had the strongest bid out there because, like they said in their presentation, they've learned from their past 2 failed bids and brought something more stronger each time they've bid.

Olympic Games in a small village? Have you considered that this is what the IOC wants? Not to mention that Annecy is technically a village too and smaller than PyeongChang. hno: Has it ever occurred to you that given the recent number of large cities hosting, the IOC wants to go back to a village style setting?

You're kinda like the 2 bozos over at gamesbids.com Tulsa and Nature. They've been putting down PyeongChang and promoting their love for Annecy but ended up getting whooped big time.

Just face the facts, congratulate the winner and try for the next edition. If it worked for PyeongChang, then yes it can work for anyone. If there's one thing we've learned is that nagging, constant nagging will eventually work.


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## rodem (Apr 6, 2010)




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## rodem (Apr 6, 2010)

1924 - Chamonix, France

1928 - St. Moritz, Switzerland

1932 - Lake Placid, New York, USA

1936 - Garmisch-Partenkirchen, Germany

1940 - Canceled
1944 - Canceled

1948 - St. Moritz, Switzerland

1952 - Oslo, Norway

1956 - Cortina d'Ampezzo, Italy

1960 - Squaw Valley, California, USA

1964 - Innsbruck, Austria

1968 - Grenoble, France

1972 - Sapporo, Japan

1976 - Innsbruck, Austria

1980 - Lake Placid, New York, USA

1984 - Sarajevo, Yugoslavia

1988 - Calgary, Alberta, Canada

1992 - Albertville, France

1994 - Lillehammer, Norway

1998 - Nagano, Japan

2002 - Salt Lake City, Utah, USA

2006 - Turin, Italy

2010 - Vancouver, Canada

2014 - Sochi, Russia


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## rodem (Apr 6, 2010)

Green : Summer & Winter Olympic Games hosted country

Red : Summer Olympic Games hosted country

Blue : Winter Olympic Games hosted country


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## Леонид (Jan 11, 2008)

great mapsss love themm!!


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## TEBC (Dec 26, 2004)

any updates?


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## Gadiri (Oct 30, 2009)

TEBC said:


> any updates?


2 years without updates on this thread. :nuts:

Updates are more on those threads :
- SOCHI - Olympic Stadium (40,000) - 2014 Olympics
- SOCHI - Olympic Skating Centre (12,000) - 2014 Olympics
- SOCHI - Bolshoi Ice Palace (12,000) - 2014 Olympics

and RUSSIA - Stadium and Arena Development News

and of course SOCHI - 2014 Winter Olympics / XXII Olympic Winter Games 

EDIT : 

2018 and not 2014 thread. Sorry.


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## TEBC (Dec 26, 2004)

i would like to know if any of the constructions began


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## TEBC (Dec 26, 2004)

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1413834&page=2


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