# US Losing Out on International Tourism



## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*U.S. losing out on international tourism *
By LESLIE MILLER 
31 January 2007

WASHINGTON (AP) - Visiting the United States isn't as popular as it used to be mainly because of delays and difficulties in getting visas, long lines at customs and aggressive promotional campaigns from other countries. 

Travel executives told a Senate panel Wednesday that people are going elsewhere for those reasons. And long lines at Customs were blamed for the U.S. losing out on the 2007 Pan American Games to Brazil and a big concern for the U.S. Olympic Committee as Chicago and Los Angeles compete for the 2016 Olympics. 

Fewer international visitors are coming to the United States since the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, despite an initiative announced a year ago by top government officials. 

In 2000, the United States was the destination for 7.5 percent of all international travelers. After the terrorist attacks, tourism plummeted. Four years later, only 6 percent of international visits were to the United States, according to the Commerce Department. 

Lawmakers and travel executives are working on strategies to boost international tourism, which contributes $1.3 trillion and 7.3 million jobs to the U.S. economy, according to the Travel Industry Association. 

"It's a significant part of the economy and we're losing our share," said Sen. Byron Dorgan, the North Dakota Democrat who chairs a Senate panel investigating the issue. 

The decline is especially notable since the weak dollar has made visits to the U.S. cheaper for foreign tourists. 

Stevan Porter, an executive with Intercontinental Hotels and chairman of the travel group Discover America Partnership, told the Senate Commerce Committee on Wednesday that getting through Customs has become a daunting experience. 

"The policies implemented -- well-intentioned -- over the past five years, appear to have strengthened our security," Porter said. "Lost, however, were efficiencies and a semblance of customer service." 

Also lost, he said, were the 2007 Pan American Games, which were awarded to Rio de Janeiro over San Antonio. 

"The U.S. Olympic Committee ... recognizes this as a similar concern pursuing award of the 2016 Olympics to either Chicago or Los Angeles," Porter said. 

Jonathan Tisch, chief executive of Loews Hotels, told the committee that potential tourists to the U.S. have to wait so long and travel so far to get a visa that some are choosing to go elsewhere. 

Since shortly after the Sept. 11 attacks, people who need a visa to visit the United States must apply in person so a consular official can conduct a face-to-face interview. 

But in large countries like Brazil, Russia, China and India, would-be tourists have to travel quite far just to apply for the right to travel to the U.S. sometime later. 

The average wait time for a visa appointment in Rio de Janeiro is 38 days, according to the State Department. In the southern Chinese city of Guangzhou, the wait is 22 days. 

Henrietta Fore, undersecretary of state for management, acknowledged Tuesday that the consular offices are understaffed, though more officers have been hired. She said President Bush will request even more consular officers next week in his 2008 budget, but she wouldn't say how many. 

On Jan. 17, 2006, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff unveiled a flat-screen monitor at Dulles International Airport and announced the "Rice-Chertoff vision" to welcome legitimate visitors while protecting U.S. borders. 

The screen with a welcoming message was just a small part of a strategy to promote tourism while streamlining the entry process, they said. 

"It hasn't had much of an impact," Dorgan said. "It's easy to announce initiatives. It's much harder to make them work. That's been the case with Homeland Security." 

Rice and Chertoff announced that Dulles Airport and Houston's George Bush Intercontinental Airport would serve as model airports, with instructional videos that help explain the entry process and Customs and Border Protection officers screening visitors better and faster. 

But the instructional video hasn't been produced, and there are still shortages of CBP staff, the Travel Industry Association said. 

At a meeting of travel executives, Homeland Security Deputy Secretary Michael Jackson said the two departments were studying the results of the model airport program. "We could do just a little better job of this," Jackson said. 

There have been some successes. Rice and Chertoff promised to speed visa processing for businesspeople, students and academics. In the 2006 budget year, a record number of student visas were issued -- 6 percent more than in the year leading up to the Sept. 11 attacks. The State Department also issued more business visas -- 12 percent more in 2006 than the year before. 

Travel executives are asking for more airport and consular staff, a visa system that uses new technology, more model airports and a campaign to promote the U.S. as a welcoming place to visit.


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

I wonder if Canada will gain because of this?


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*Non-resident travellers entering Canada (thousands) *
http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/arts34.htm

US Residents - 
2001 : 42,871
2002 : 40,878
2003 : 35,509
2004 : 34,626
2005 : 31,655

Residents of other countries -
2001 : 4,275 
2002 : 4,018
2003 : 3,393
2004 : 4,218
2005 : 4,505

Total non-residents -
2001 : 47,147
2002 : 44,896
2003 : 38,903
2004 : 38,844
2005 : 36,160

Data is muddled by SARS and a declining US traveler base but counteracted by an increasing international traveler base.


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## gladisimo (Dec 11, 2006)

It'll probably lower as it's now even less convenient to go around the two country.


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## schmidt (Dec 5, 2002)

I myself was gonna go to the US this summer (Southern Hemisphere summer), but I chose Europe because I would only get my visa in late February!!! And for Europe we Brazilians need no visa. 

But I wonder why figures are so low for Canada. I mean, it's not that difficult to enter the country. Maybe it's due to the fact that many flights to Canada have stops in the US, and for that you'll need to go through customs and get a visa...


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*New statistics show tourism spending in U.S. rose above pre-Sept. 11 levels last year *
15 February 2007

WASHINGTON (AP) - International tourists spent a record amount in the U.S. last year, according to government data, beating the previous high set before the 2001 terrorist attacks. 

International travelers spent more than $107 billion last year -- an amount that includes food, lodging, recreation, gifts, plane fares and cruise fares, the Commerce Department said on Thursday. That's up from an earlier record of $103 billion spent in 2000. 

"We have seen full recovery in spending by visitors to the United States since September 11," Ana Guevara, the Commerce Department's deputy assistant secretary for services said in a prepared statement. "This is good news for the U.S. travel and tourism industry, which employed 8.3 million Americans last year." 

Also Thursday, the Department of Transportation's Bureau of Transportation Statistics reported that the total amount of passengers making international flights on U.S. airlines rose by 5.9 percent for the first 11 months of 2006. 

The top international carriers among U.S. airlines through November, according to the bureau, were AMR Corp.'s American Airlines, followed by UAL Corp.'s United Airlines, Continental Airlines Inc., Delta Air Lines Inc. and Northwest Airlines Corp. 

Shares of AMR were down 47 cents to close at $38.05 Thursday on the New York Stock Exchange, where shares of Continental rose 54 cents to close at $44.40. Shares of United were down 37 cents to close at $44.50 on the Nasdaq Stock Market.


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## gladisimo (Dec 11, 2006)

Does that amount account for inflation? Also, that doesn't indicate any growth over the last half decade, only recovery up to the highest point... while other places around the world are growing in terms of tourism.

Also, Canada's real numbers are probably not high, because there aren't as many places to go there as the USA.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

gladisimo said:


> Does that amount account for inflation? Also, that doesn't indicate any growth over the last half decade, only recovery up to the highest point... while other places around the world are growing in terms of tourism.


I don't think so.

More data : http://tinet.ita.doc.gov/outreachpages/inbound.total_intl_travel_spending_1995-2005.html

2005 data press release : http://www.ita.doc.gov/media/PressReleases/0306/tourism_030806.html


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*NYC sets up tourism representation in Shanghai *
(Xinhua)
Updated: 2007-06-28 16:10

NYC & Company, the official marketing and tourism organization for the City of New York, on Wednesday announced the establishment of a tourism representation in Shanghai, eastern China. 
The announcement marks the latest step in NYC & Company's plan to build a global network and boost international travel to the Big Apple. 

"It's a privilege to represent New York City today and to mark this important moment for our travel and tourism industry," said George Fertitta, CEO of NYC & Company, at a press conference held in Shanghai Wednesday. 

"As financial, commercial and media centers, New York City and Shanghai have many common interests. And as professionals continue to travel to New York for business, they will find a dynamic, thriving city." 

The high volume of Chinese business travel to New York City, coupled with residents' increased interest in tourism opportunities, makes China among the most important targets in New York City Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg's campaign to attract 50 million visitors annually by 2015. 

NYC & Company now has representative offices in 19 countries. A new location in Tokyo, Japan, opened on June 26, and a launch for Seoul, South Korea, will take place on July 2. 

Although the United States has not approved destinations status (ADS), travelers from China may come with work visas that include permission to bring family members. These visits generally last 10 to 15 days and include stays in multiple cities. 

This new wave of travelers has already affected the tourism industry across the United States and in New York City in particular. 

Travelers from China to New York City have been on the rise for some time, jumping sharply from 59,000 visitors in 2002 to 133,000 in 2005 and an estimated 165,000 visitors will visit the city in 2007. 

"There is no better time for Chinese travelers to visit New York City," said Jonathan M. Tisch, chairman of the NYC & Company board. 

"It continues to be a dynamic and multicultural destination that offers visitors exciting things to do from designer shopping and dining out to sightseeing at landmark attractions like the Statue of Liberty and Times Square," he said. 

New York City offers some of the top designer shopping experiences worldwide, from luxury boutiques on the streets of SoHo to flagship stores such as Bloomingdale's and Saks Fifth Avenue. Popular sightseeing attractions include the Empire State Building, Rockefeller Center and Metropolitan Museum of Art.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

US tourism must be doing worse than it could be since the tough border crossing process. Even the possibility of a random interrogation is enough to send tourists elsewhere. 

I live in Toronto and was thinking of driving to see my mum who lives in Northern Ontario across from Minnesota. I would normally have considered going through Michigan-Indiana-Illinois-Wisconsin-Minnesota since I've never travelled in that part of the world, but have serious reservations about it. Instead of an extended week long drive, I will probably drive though Ontario straight, and use the vacation time to go to another country later on in the year.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

isaidso said:


> US tourism must be doing worse than it could be since the tough border crossing process. Even the possibility of a random interrogation is enough to send tourists elsewhere.


Maybe, but I would have thought that the plummeting value of the dollar would more than make up for that. When I visited the USA in 2001 I only got $1.40 for 1 British Pound, now I would get about $1.90, 35% more. This makes the US a much cheaper destination to visit than a few years ago.

It also means that it costs 35% more for Americans to visit the UK and it's similar fro the EUrozone, Canada and elsewhere so they are more likely to stay in the US and spend their money at home.


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## Audiomuse (Dec 20, 2005)

^^ Or choose places like Mexico, and if they are ok with long flights, Turkey.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

Remember, it's all in the name of Homeland Security. hno:

I don't know about foreign tourists, but thanks to Customs and the plummeting value of the Dollar, it's been less and less advantageous for Americans to go abroad. It's a bigger hassle than it was three years ago, let alone after 9/11. Visting even Canada is/will becoming a hassle thanks to tough security, their dollar getting closer to surpass ours, and the forthcoming passport requirement.

Leaving the US was always expensive, but now it's becoming prohibitive for a spendthrift student like me.

I don't think that I will be able to leave North America in the near future.


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## alex3000 (Oct 20, 2002)

macon4ever said:


> ^^ Or choose places like Mexico, and if they are ok with long flights, Turkey.


Actually, even though Mexico is cheaper than the US, it's not that cheap anymore and anyone who has been to Mexico recently more than twice will tell you that.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

TenRot said:


> Remember, it's all in the name of Homeland Security. hno:
> 
> I don't know about foreign tourists, but thanks to Customs and the plummeting value of the Dollar, it's been less and less advantageous for Americans to go abroad. It's a bigger hassle than it was three years ago, let alone after 9/11. Visting even Canada is/will becoming a hassle thanks to tough security, their dollar getting closer to surpass ours, and the forthcoming passport requirement.


Yeah, it's really hit Canada hard. American tourist trips have decreased by about 8 million people from a high of 42 million. I don't know figures for Canadians visiting the US, but I think any decrease in numbers has been somewhat offset by a surging Canadian dollar. Canada is turning it's attention to attracting other foreign tourists. Americans spend the least of all the foreigners visiting here.


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## Audiomuse (Dec 20, 2005)

alex3000 said:


> Actually, even though Mexico is cheaper than the US, it's not that cheap anymore and anyone who has been to Mexico recently more than twice will tell you that.


Everywhere you go, it's getting more and more expensive.

It just depends on where you go.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

isaidso said:


> Yeah, it's really hit Canada hard. American tourist trips have decreased by about 8 million people from a high of 42 million. I don't know figures for Canadians visiting the US, but I think any decrease in numbers has been somewhat offset by a surging Canadian dollar. Canada is turning it's attention to attracting other foreign tourists. Americans spend the least of all the foreigners visiting here.


I figure a lot of that loss has been because of the confusion that the government has been giving us now. The whole passport plan, made people think that passports are already required, although the plan keeps on being delayed over and over again. Tougher customs because of security also plays a role in making visit north of the border a hassle. Moreso when dealing with the US customs on the way back though.

And yeah, the advantage that Americans enjoyed currency-wise in Canada, even three years ago, has been lost. But Canada is still pretty affordable to visit, compared to Europe. At least for now. At this rate, I don't think it will be in two years.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*Congress Looks to Boost US Tourism *
5 July 2007

WASHINGTON (AP) - The United States has lost billions of dollars and an immeasurable amount of good will since Sept. 11, 2001, terrorism attacks nearly six years ago because of a decline in foreign tourists. Several senators are now trying to get the government involved in bringing those visitors back. 

The Senate Commerce Committee has approved a bill to establish a nonprofit public-private corporation to promote the United States as a tourist destination and clear up misperceptions about U.S. travel policies. It also would create a new office in the Commerce Department to work with other agencies on fixing visa policies and entry processes that discourage visits. 

Visits to the United States from countries outside of Canada and Mexico totaled 21.7 million in 2006, down 17 percent from a peak of 26 million in 2000, according to Commerce Department figures. In the same period, cross-border travel around the world was up 20 percent. 

"The global pie of international travel is steadily increasing, while the U.S. share has been slowly decreasing," said Roger Dow, president and CEO of the Travel Industry Association. 

Visits from the six countries that provide the most tourists -- Britain, Japan, Germany, France, South Korea and Australia -- have dropped 15 percent since 2000 while travel from those six to other countries was up a robust 39 percent. There were 4.2 million arrivals from Britain, last year, down 11 percent from 2000, and 3.7 million visits from Japan, down 27 percent. 

"It's a situation that really is disastrous when you take into account the overall global trends in international travel, and the fact that the U.S. currency makes travel to the country so attractive," said Adam Sacks, managing director for tourism economics at Oxford Economics. The weakening of the dollar against the euro and other currencies makes the money of foreign tourists go further. 

Oxford Economics, in a recent analysis of travel policies written with former Homeland Security Department Secretary Tom Ridge, said the 17 percent drop in visits since 2000 has cost the United States $100 billion in lost visitor spending, almost 200,000 jobs and $16 billion in lost tax receipts. 

It noted that the United States is the only global destination without an ongoing program to promote itself. Greece spends $150 million a year, Australia $113 million and Britain $90 million. 

"We have lacked a coordinated program to promote travel to our country," said Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., one of the sponsors of the Senate bill. 

The new corporation envisioned by the bill would be funded by industry contributions and a $10 user fee levied on travelers from the 27 countries participating in a visa waiver program with the United States. 

But industry experts also stressed that increased advertising about the wonders of Broadway or the Grand Canyon must be accompanied by changes in the visa and entry systems that keep people away. 

Geoff Freeman, executive director of the Discover America Partnership, a business group working to improve the U.S. image, said 70 percent of foreign visitors have a great experience once they get beyond the airport. At a time when many in the world have negative feelings about the United States, 74 percent return from visits with favorable views. 

"Unfortunately the first three hours" -- trying to get through customs -- "is creating a poor impression and becoming a great barrier to coming," Freeman said. European papers are "filled with horror stories about why you don't want to come to the U.S." 

Entry problems are hardly confined to tourists. Investors from countries such as Brazil or India, where it can take months to get a visa, may take their business elsewhere. People willing to pay considerable amounts to study in the United States or receive medical treatment here may consider other options. 

The Oxford study recommended that the United States expand the visa waiver program and apply the proposed $10 visa waiver fee to both promotion and entry security improvements including hiring more border and customs officers. 

It said such steps could increase overseas travel to this country by nearly 1.6 million visitors a year, and yield $8 billion in new visitor spending and $850 million in federal tax revenue. 

------ 

The bill is S. 1661. 

------


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*Strong U.S. jobs growth? Thank a tourist *

WASHINGTON, July 6 (Reuters) - The housing sector is in a funk, auto sales are weak, and manufacturing jobs are drying up. So why were Friday's U.S. employment numbers surprisingly strong? 

Merrill Lynch analyst David Rosenberg says at least some of the credit should go to tourists who are flocking to the United States to capitalize on a weak dollar, helping to fill bars and restaurants. 

"Where is all the employment being created? Try the leisure-hospitality sector -- the weak dollar has worked its magic in this space," Rosenberg wrote in a note to clients. 

Friday's employment report from the Labor Department showed an overall gain of 132,000 jobs in June, beating economists' expectations for 120,000 in a Reuters survey. 

Payroll figures for April and May were also revised higher, confirming stronger second-quarter economic growth following a soft start to the year. 

Not surprisingly, nearly all the growth came in the services sector, which includes everything from nurses to bartenders and has been the sweet spot in an economy struggling with persistent weakness in manufacturing and housing. 

Health care gets most of the attention in the services sector as aging baby boomers drive up demand for nursing, but a closer look at the latest numbers shows that food service and drinking places accounted for 34,600 new jobs in June, outpacing the 29,700 gain in health care employment. 

"Foreigners cannot believe how cheap it is now to visit the U.S., with the U.S. dollar down 15 percent year-over-year against the Australian dollar and Thai baht; 10 percent against the (British pound) and 7.5 percent against the euro," Merrill's Rosenberg said. 

While the data suggest that consumers were happily eating and drinking, the revelry did not extend to the shopping mall. The retail trade lost some 24,200 jobs, in part due to weakness at car dealerships and building supply stores but also because of declines at clothing and accessories stores. 

"The mystery is they're adding folks in the food court and not the stores," said Ken Goldstein, labor economist with The Conference Board in New York. 

Goldstein said that although the data is seasonally adjusted, it's not an exact science and the retail job losses may have as much to do with timing as demand. 

He said restaurants probably beefed up staffing in response to signs the economy improved in the second quarter, and some people who had worried about a steep decline found reason to celebrate or travel. 

Retailers are still a few weeks away from the back-to-school shopping season and will likely add jobs again in July, he said.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*Foreign visitors to US hit record in summer-report *

WASHINGTON, Nov 19 (Reuters) - A record number of foreigners visited the United States this summer and spent unprecedented amounts of money, the U.S. Commerce Department said on Monday. 

"These robust summer travel numbers highlight the vitality of the American travel industry," U.S. Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez said in a statement applauding the role international tourism plays in boosting U.S. economic growth. 

Six years after the Sept. 2001 attacks put a big dent in visits to the United States, the weak U.S. dollar has made foreign travel in the United States a better bargain and helped to bring overseas travelers back. 

Foreign visits, which hit a record 51.2 million in 2000, dropped to 41.2 million in 2003 when the Bush administration angered many people around the world with its decision to invade Iraq. 

Since then, foreign visits have climbed steadily and are projected at a record of almost 54 million in 2007, up 5 percent from last year, the Commerce Department said. 

The 14.3 million visitors who came to the United States this summer spent a record $30.7 billion, 14 percent more than in summer 2006. Visitors' spending exceeded previous records in each of the three months from June to August. 

International visitors have spent $78.4 billion in the United States during the first eight months of 2007, up 11 percent from the same period last year and on track to surpass the record set in 2006 of $107.9 billion, the department said. 

Travel from Europe and other overseas destinations took the biggest hit after September 2001, with visits from Canada and Mexico showing much less decline. 

This summer's tally showed a 16 percent rise in visitors from Western Europe, a 12 percent increase from the United Kingdom and an 8 percent gain from Eastern Europe. 

Visits from Asia increased 6 percent in June, July and August with gains of 37 percent and 30 percent respectively for India and China, the Commerce Department said.


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## Dezz (Mar 11, 2005)

And i'll be in the States next summer. Exploring the Deep South :cheers:


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## nuevo-chicago (Nov 24, 2007)

isaidso said:


> US tourism must be doing worse than it could be since the tough border crossing process. Even the possibility of a random interrogation is enough to send tourists elsewhere.
> 
> I live in Toronto and was thinking of driving to see my mum who lives in Northern Ontario across from Minnesota. I would normally have considered going through Michigan-Indiana-Illinois-Wisconsin-Minnesota since I've never travelled in that part of the world, but have serious reservations about it. Instead of an extended week long drive, I will probably drive though Ontario straight, and use the vacation time to go to another country later on in the year.


You should be able to pass through w/o a visa or passport by car. Go for it. yeah, customs are a bunch of bastards the two times I was returning from Toronto to US they searched my car. And gave me real bad attitude told me that my drivers license wasn't prove that I was a citizen of the US. The third time i will go through US customs I will tell them that I have severed bodies of prostitutes in my trunk!:cheers:


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## Geborgenheit (Sep 9, 2005)

Less tourism, less illegal immigrants.


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## nuevo-chicago (Nov 24, 2007)

Ita Simpsone said:


> Less tourism, less illegal immigrants.


? Most illegal immigrants come from Mexico and more and more illegal immigrants from other nations are using the southern border to cross. That is the truth.


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## fettekatz (Oct 17, 2007)

^^ my aunt had come to the states as a tourist and decided to stay a little bit longer 

after a few years in the 'underground' she finally got the citizenship


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## Geborgenheit (Sep 9, 2005)

^^
5 years?


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## fettekatz (Oct 17, 2007)

actually, she found an american husband after 2 years... so she did a shortcut


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## nuevo-chicago (Nov 24, 2007)

fettekatz said:


> actually, she found an american husband after 2 years... so she did a shortcut


but what is actually more important is that is she still married?


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## fettekatz (Oct 17, 2007)

^^ no


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## Paddington (Mar 30, 2006)

A couple of things happened in America:

After Sept 11, they made it harder to get tourist visas. Fewer people are able to come now.

The airline industry took a big hit, and a lot of flights were cut back. Again, fewer people coming here.

More recently, the higher fuel prices have also led to shocks in the airline industry, with fares being increased.


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## doenumberpakistani (Aug 25, 2007)

The first time i read the title of this thread like this "US Losing Out on International Terrorrism" :lol:
any way carry on ...


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## montesky (Mar 21, 2006)

off course that US is recording huge increases in visits from europe. dollar is on all time low, therefore america is EXTREAMLY cheap for anyone who lives in Europe. when u compare the prices, u'll know what i'm talking about. many friends of mine r going 2 the US just 2 buy some electronic stuff that r too expensive around here


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## Uncle Phil (Nov 24, 2007)

montesky said:


> off course that US is recording huge increases in visits from europe. dollar is on all time low, therefore america is EXTREAMLY cheap for anyone who lives in Europe. when u compare the prices, u'll know what i'm talking about. many friends of mine r going 2 the US just 2 buy some electronic stuff that r too expensive around here


I dont know about _extremely_ cheap. Its not like coming to Thailand or anything.


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## Jaeger (May 11, 2006)

New York is a popular destination for British shoppers at the moment, the other area visited most by Brits is Florida (for the sunshine) - although Vegas and Los Angeles are also very popular.

There will be a mass British Invasion of Vegas next weekend when Floyd Mayweather fights British Fighter Ricky Hatton

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/article2983392.ece

http://www.sportinglife.com/boxing/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=boxing/07/11/30/manual_175623.html


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## foadi (Feb 15, 2006)

i just entered the US at the tijuana - san ysidro border crossing yesterday. it took 3 and a half hours to cross the border. 3 AND A HALF HOURS. man, they're just ridiculous with these checks. not suprising that ppl would go elsewhere for their vacation.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

Getting into the US can be a bitch. We're too paranoid these days.

It's a shame, because the US has the potential to be more attractive as a tourist spot, thanks to the low dollar. The tourist agencies are really pissed off from these moves.


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## FREKI (Sep 27, 2005)

Apperently now I'll need a biometric passport to visit the states along with once again spending 60min in the immigration line waiting to get my photo taken, fingerprints scanned and filling out two retarded forms asking me if I helped Nazi Germany or are planning on commiting crimes in the US and finally spend 15min finding my lugage that long ago was removed from the bagage claim area because people were waiting in the immigration line...... to visit Sweden I need a train ticket :| 

The US is a great country to travel in and I have nothing what so ever to hide, but it is getting to a point where even I could think about alternative places simply because I feel all the paranoia is a bit too much..

Seriously, when was the lasttime a Dane or Scandinavian ever posed a risk or participated in a terror attack??? We have a clean record so why punish us for actions done by people half a world away!


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## Paddington (Mar 30, 2006)

Mr_Denmark said:


> Apperently now I'll need a biometric passport to visit the states along with once again spending 60min in the immigration line waiting to get my photo taken, fingerprints scanned and filling out two retarded forms asking me if I helped Nazi Germany or are planning on commiting crimes in the US and finally spend 15min finding my lugage that long ago was removed from the bagage claim area because people were waiting in the immigration line...... to visit Sweden I need a train ticket :|
> 
> The US is a great country to travel in and I have nothing what so ever to hide, but it is getting to a point where even I could think about alternative places simply because I feel all the paranoia is a bit too much..
> 
> Seriously, when was the lasttime a Dane or Scandinavian ever posed a risk or participated in a terror attack??? We have a clean record so why punish us for actions done by people half a world away!


Europe is filled with Islamic radicals these days. Many of the Sept. 11 bombers had lived in Germany.

I think it is a good idea to keep close tabs on whoever is coming here. If you feel like the restrictions are too much, then you don't have to come. It's that simple. Quite frankly, I don't want this country to be a place where anyone can come for any reason to do whatever they want. I think we should be selective about who we let in, including those coming over for short visits.

People bitch and moan about new security restrictions and surveillance powers, but the fact is since Sept. 11 we have had zero major terrorist attacks on U.S. soil. A lot of the would-be terrorists have been kept out, and those that have come through have been arrested by the police because the government had been keeping close tabs on them.


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## FREKI (Sep 27, 2005)

^And how many attacks have the rest of the west seen where you don't get anal probed for being a foreign citizen??

Fact is the US is overreacting big time.. if one wanted to enter the US all you had to do was go over Canada.. a freaking 14 yo with a hump could do that! 

Look at how many illegals enter every day from the Mexican side too.. and then I - with a documented hotel, with more than enough cash for my vacation, with 6 previous US stamps and with an honest face and clean criminal record - has to be treated like a terrorist for almost 2 hours!

As I said it's a joke!

If a person wants to do bad deeds there's no stopping him - especially now when well funded and fundamental!

It's fine that attention is kept on people from high risk countries ( UAE, Saudi Arabia, Syria,and so on ) but how much a thread do a couple Danes on their way to spring break pose???


I've had my share of working with profiling and can asure you that it's much better to single out individuals than just do a crummy check of everybody..

Exactly how many terrorists have been picked up at immigration to date??? Only Cat Stevens?? :lol:


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## jmancuso (Jan 9, 2003)

Mr_Denmark said:


> Seriously, when was the lasttime a Dane or Scandinavian ever posed a risk or participated in a terror attack??? We have a clean record so why punish us for actions done by people half a world away!


way too many american toddlers chocking on your legos and i bet those cookies are loaded with saturated fat too.


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## FREKI (Sep 27, 2005)

traPPed said:


> Thats dumb! A person could be feeling down, angry or nervous due to a wide range of reasons. That doesn't mean that you stop him.


It's a well tested system that works - sure not all are guilty, but the efficiency over picking all and do a light searh is much greater!


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

MoreOrLess said:


> I'm not sure the weak dollar is helping the US much as its also making alot of the rest of the world cheaper to visit for europeans.


Hmmm...pretty much. 

However, it's not really hurting us...most of the world is still cheap.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*Foreign shoppers prop up US stores, but a holiday hangover could be on the way *
19 December 2007

NEW YORK (AP) - Stores in the United States should enjoy those hordes of foreign holiday shoppers taking advantage of the weak dollar and snapping up everything from UGG boots to status jeans, because next year the prices may not be as good. 

When U.S merchants rebuild their inventories of luxury and other status goods next year, some analysts say they may feel some pain as manufacturers overseas start passing on higher prices to stores -- dealing a blow to shoppers both from the U.S. and abroad. 

"When tourists are coming they are not buying the stuff that we make. They are buying the stuff that we imported," said Peter Schiff, CEO of Euro Pacific Capital, a brokerage firm in Darien, Connecticut. "U.S. retailers are getting a shot in the arm, but by next year, the discrepancy won't be there." 

As the dollar weakened in recent years, prices of European handbags, clothing and shoes have already started to creep up, and the cumulative effect has some stores concerned. According to luxury consultant Robert Burke, some Italian ready-to-wear brands have seen prices rise as much as 20 percent in the last two years; consumers are now paying 10 to 15 percent more on status shoe brands like Jimmy Choo, which now average between $600 (euro417) to $700 (euro487), Burke said. 

Stephen I. Sadove, chairman and chief executive of Saks Inc., which operates Saks Fifth Avenue, said he is already seeing consumers become increasingly reluctant to pay higher prices in some European designer apparel. 

Wall Street's worry that the deluge of foreign tourists is only temporary was reflected in its reaction to Tiffany & Co.'s stellar third-quarter earnings results. The company said that about half of its 25 percent sales increase at stores open at least a year came from foreign shoppers. Tiffany's stock has fallen as much as 5 percent since the announcement Nov. 30, as investors worry that its Manhattan flagship store has become a disproportionate driver of sales thanks to foreign buyers. Jewelry stores like Tiffany's have another added worry: they most likely will have to raise prices next year, since key raw materials such as gold and silver are priced in other currencies besides the dollar, analysts say. 

For now, U.S. merchants are enjoying the swarms of shoppers from abroad. Manolo Blahnik is opening its New York shoe store Sundays during the season and toy retailer FAO Schwarz will open Christmas Day for the first time, in part to accommodate foreign visitors. 

In New York City, the top U.S. destination for foreign tourists, two million visitors from abroad are expected this holiday season, up 3.5 percent in the year-ago period, according to NYC & Company, the city's official tourism and marketing organization. For the calendar year, NYC & Company expects up to 8 million foreign visitors, up 11 percent from 7.2 million in 2006. More importantly, foreign tourists' spending has increased 25 percent to $1,750 (euro1,216) per person this year, from $1,400 in 2005. 

"This is my big shopping trip. And it was well worth it," said Ali Costello from London, who was at Lord & Taylor's Manhattan location on Saturday, buying Australian UGG sheepskin boots for her daughter. She plans to spend about $2,000 (euro1,390) and had two bright red suitcases by her side that she had just purchased at Macy's to shove all the bargains in. 

George Malkemus, president of Manolo Blahnik's U.S. division, said that foreign tourists this holiday season account for 40 percent of the trendy shoe company's business in New York, compared to 20 percent a year ago. The big growth, he said, is coming from middle-income shoppers, like teachers and secretaries, who now can afford to splurge on a pair of the shoes popularized by TV's "Sex and the City." 

"The reality is that this is a great moment of time," said George Fertitta, CEO of NYC & Company. 

Since late last month, the dollar has steadied. In afternoon trading on Wednesday, the euro fell to $1.4337, while the British pound slipped to $1.9964 against the dollar. 

Nevertheless, since the beginning of the year, the U.S. dollar has fallen about 9 percent against other major currencies, according to the Federal Reserve. Carl Steidtmann, chief economist at Deloitte Research, expects the dollar to lose up to 10 percent of its value next year. 

For foreign shoppers, that means right now at least a 30 percent discount on merchandise; the savings can be more on hot items with limited distribution overseas like UGG boots. For example, shoppers from Britain like Nini Adwars say that the UGG boots cost about 200 pounds in London, or $400 (euro278), but in the U.S., the footwear retails for about half the price. Adwars also planned to buy jeans at Abercrombie & Fitch, which she said cost double in London. 

Mall of America, the largest U.S. retail and entertainment complex, estimates a 15 percent increase in the number of foreigners this holiday season, compared to a year ago, according to Doug Killian, director of tourism. The biggest group are the Canadians, followed by visitors from Britain. Canadian businesses are already hurting as their customers cross the border in droves to shop in the U.S., thanks to a strong Canadian dollar. 

Killian noted that international tourists spend on average 2.5 more times per visit compared to a local shopper. 

"There's no question that our international business is helping us," said Killian. 

Bloomingdale's, which tracks foreign visitors at its visitors' centers in New York, Chicago, San Francisco and Miami, reports at least a 30 percent increase in foreigners in October and November from a year ago. Among the popular brands are Chanel, Armani, Juicy Couture, Seven for All Mankind and the hugely popular UGGs, company officials said. 

Foreign shoppers, armed with lists, are focusing on specific status labels, and are doing plenty of price comparisons. 

Yong Feng Zhang, a 30-year old international law student from China, recently eyed a $795 (euro553) Burberry bag at Bloomingdale's store in Chevy Chase, Maryland. 

"I can buy two bags (here) instead of one in China with the dollar so undervalued compared to the Chinese Yuan," said Zhang. "The brand is very popular in China." 

---------- 

AP Business Writer Donna Borak in Washington contributed to this report.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

hkskyline said:


> "This is my big shopping trip. And it was well worth it," said Ali Costello from London, who was at Lord & Taylor's Manhattan location on Saturday, buying Australian UGG sheepskin boots for her daughter. She plans to spend about $2,000 (euro1,390) and had two bright red suitcases by her side that she had just purchased at Macy's to shove all the bargains in.


I hope she's going to pay import duty on all that tat, the persoanl duty free allowance is £145!!

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...ent&id=HMCE_PROD_010220&propertyType=document


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

Jonesy55 said:


> I hope she's going to pay import duty on all that tat, the persoanl duty free allowance is £145!!
> 
> http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...ent&id=HMCE_PROD_010220&propertyType=document


Do they usually enforce it by doing random searches on incoming Brits?


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## [email protected] (Jan 17, 2004)

Jonesy55 said:


> I hope she's going to pay import duty on all that tat, the persoanl duty free allowance is £145!!
> 
> http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...ent&id=HMCE_PROD_010220&propertyType=document


Seriously, import duty for private persons has no place in the 21st century...it's time that we get rid of them all over the world.

I can understand that they tax companies who import lots of goods, but things that are intented for your own use???

How should the customs officers know what things you have bought on the trip anyway, when you get rid of the packing, price tags and bills, which is what the vast majority of these shoppers do ?


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> Seriously, import duty for private persons has no place in the 21st century...it's time that we get rid of them all over the world.
> 
> I can understand that they tax companies who import lots of goods, but things that are intented for your own use???
> 
> How should the customs officers know what things you have bought on the trip anyway, when you get rid of the packing, price tags and bills, which is what the vast majority of these shoppers do ?


That's because governments are protectionist, even though they claim they embrace free trade, and wouldn't mind taxing more from people who can afford to shop abroad.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

* NYC hits tourism record*
14 Jan 2008
By SAMANTHA GROSS, Associated Press 

With a falling dollar sweetening the deal for international travelers, a record-setting number of tourists visited the city last year, spending an estimated $28 billion, tourism officials said Sunday.

With a final count still pending, the city's tourism office said an estimated 46 million people had visited the city in 2007 — up 5 percent from 2006. The jump was largely due to visitors from other countries, who numbered an estimated 8.5 million — a growth of 17 percent.

George Fertitta, chief executive of city tourism office NYC & Company, said the visitors were drawn by more than a favorable exchange rate and the city's international marketing efforts.

"The city is more vibrant, cleaner and safer — and it's just more exciting than ever before," he said.

The portion of the city's tourists who were from other countries had dwindled since the Sept. 11 attacks, and last year's growth returned the ratio to pre-2001 levels.

The city has been working to draw such international visitors, who stay longer and spend more money. NYC & Company has launched an overseas television, print and billboard campaign, and in 2007 it more than doubled its marketing offices overseas, targeting countries including China, Brazil and Canada.

New York is one of only a few U.S. urban centers that did not see a drop in the number of overseas visitors between 2000 and 2006.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg has said he wants the city to attract 50 million travelers each year by 2015. Last year, visitors to New York spent $4 billion more than they had the year before.


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## xXFallenXx (Jun 15, 2007)

^^ i saw that on CNN.
That's good news.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

Eh...the US has turned into the world's Wal-Mart. The place to save and buy for less! :lol:


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## tigerboy (Jun 7, 2006)

10ROT said:


> Eh...the US has turned into the world's Wal-Mart. The place to save and buy for less! :lol:


You are jokingly touching on a truth. I am currently in Ireland where many of my family are from. I have heard several older, financially comfortable friends and neighbours of my family telling how they saved this amount or that amount by regularly - maybe quarterly - shopping in NY which they describe as "fun and cheap" compared to " pricey" london.

What next? Kiss me Quick hats?


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

TI News: An information service from Office of Travel & Tourism Industries (OTTI)

January 17, 2008
*INTERNATIONAL VISITATION UP 15 PERCENT IN OCTOBER 2007
SPENDING AT $10.9 BILLION FOR THE MONTH *

Year-To-Date Arrivals 10 Percent Above Last Year

The U.S. Department of Commerce announced that 4.1 million international visitors traveled to the United States in October 2007, an increase of 15 percent over October 2006. Total visitation for the ten months of 2007 was up 10 percent from the same period in 2006. International visitors also spent $11.1 billion during the month, up 21 percent from October 2006 and $100.4 billion year-to-date, up 13 percent from the first ten months in 2006.

Highlights of October 2007 International Arrivals1 to the United States

* Canadian visitation was up 18 percent over October 2006 and nine percent for the year. Air arrivals were up seven percent for the month and six percent year-to-date.
* Arrivals from Mexico (traveling to interior U.S. points) were up 13 percent in October 2007 and 17 percent for the year. Air arrivals were up 14 percent for the month and 10 percent year-to-date.
* Overseas arrivals (excluding Canada and Mexico) were up 14 percent over October 2006 and up 10 percent for the year.
* Visitation from Western Europe was a “driver” growing 18 percent in October 2007 and up 12 percent year-to-date. Arrivals from the United Kingdom were up 15 percent in October and seven year-to-date. Visitors from the U.K. accounted for 41 percent of all Western European arrivals this year.
* The other top Western European countries that had grown by double digits in October were Germany, France and Italy, up 13 percent, 22 percent and 19 percent, respectively, for the month. Arrivals from Ireland, the Netherlands, Spain and Sweden grew 40 percent, 17 percent, 24 percent and 22 percent, respectively, in October. For the ten months of 2007 all of these countries posted double-digit growth.
* Eastern European arrivals were up 14 percent in October and 10 percent for the ten months of 2007. Visitation from Russia, which accounted for 25 percent of arrivals from Eastern Europe in October, was up by 20 percent.
* Visitation from Asia increased two percent in October and four percent year-to-date. Growth was driven by visitation from India and the Peoples Republic of China, which jumped 33 percent and 16 percent, respectively for the month and grew by 43 percent and 25 percent, respectively, for the year. Japanese arrivals were down five percent in October 2007 and down four percent year-to-date. Japan accounted for 57 percent of all Asian visitors so far in 2007 and is the only major market this year with a decline in traffic. South Korean and Taiwanese visitation each grew by three percent for the month and were up seven percent and four percent year-to-date.
* Arrivals from South America were up 23 percent in October and 17 percent for the year. Double-digit growth in visitation from Brazil, Venezuela, Colombia and Argentina were noted for the month and year-to-date. Brazil was the top arrivals market for South America, accounting for 28 percent of arrivals from the region in 2007. Central American arrivals were up 24 percent in October and 13 percent for the year. Guatemalan visitation was up 32 percent.
* Travel from Oceania increased 16 percent in October and 10 percent for the year. Australia increased 15 percent in October and 11 percent for the year accounting for 80 percent of all arrivals from Oceania in 2007.
* Visitation from the Caribbean was up 20 percent in October and 11 percent for the year. Air arrivals accounted for 94 percent of all arrivals and were up 22 percent for the month. Visitation from the Bahamas was up 36 percent in October. Middle Eastern arrivals were up five percent in October while African visitation increased by 13 percent. Middle Eastern and African arrivals were up 12 percent and 10 percent, respectively, for the year. Israel accounted for 50 percent of arrivals from the Middle East and was up 11 percent for the year.

To access the 2007 monthly arrivals data tables for world regions and top markets, visit
http://www.tinet.ita.doc.gov/view/m-2007-I-001/index.html

To review the top 20 arrival countries for October07 and year-to-date click here:
http://tinet.ita.doc.gov/view/m-2007-I-001/documents/top_20_countries.xls

Also to view the most recent Quarterly Analysis (3rd Quarter 07) regarding the top 20 origin markets please check here:
http://www.tinet.ita.doc.gov/view/m-2007-I-001/documents/September_2007_YTD_Arrivals_Analysis.pdf 

TOP PORTS October 2007 Year-to-Date

A brief analysis is presented on the top 15 ports for overseas arrivals during 2007.

Overseas arrivals (which excludes Canada and Mexico) were up 11 percent through October 2007. Arrivals through the top 15 ports-of-entry accounted for 83 percent of all overseas arrivals, about the same as the total arriving through these ports in the ten months of 2006.

Twelve of the top fifteen ports posted increases in arrivals for the ten months of 2007. Eight of the top airports posted double-digit increases. New York maintained its lead in non-resident arrivals with a 16 percent increase. Arrivals through Newark were up 16 percent, moving it into 4th position, ahead of Honolulu, which dropped two percent compared to last year. Boston and Detroit moved into 12th and 13th positions, ahead of Sanford.

To access top port activity, go to:
http://www.tinet.ita.doc.gov/view/m-2007-I-001/top_ports.html

Arrivals to the USA by port-of-entry are tracked on a monthly basis. The Department of Commerce has arrival data on more than 40 U.S. ports-of-entry from all world regions and 30 countries.

SOURCE:
The monthly Summary of International Travel to the U.S. report has approximately 30 tables that provide data on monthly and year-to-date arrivals to the country. The report provides data on approximately 90 countries each month and more than 40 ports of entry. Numerous breakouts are provided by world region and country for the port tables as well.

To find out more about this program, please go to: http://tinet.ita.doc.gov/research/programs/i94/index.html

If you would like to subscribe to the monthly international arrivals reports, please go to:
http://www.tinet.ita.doc.gov/research/reports/i94/index.html


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## Wuppeltje (Jan 23, 2008)

MoreOrLess said:


> I'm not sure the weak dollar is helping the US much as its also making alot of the rest of the world cheaper to visit for europeans.


Well I think it is helping a lot. In these times it is interesting to visit the USA. Even NYC is relatively cheap. NYC may be expensive in comparison with other parts of the US, but many cloths are for Europeans now half price, or even cheaper than that in NYC.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*U.S. says foreign visitors set record in 2007 *

WASHINGTON, March 10 (Reuters) - The number of foreign visitors to the United States set a record in 2007 for the first time since before the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States, the U.S. Commerce Department said on Monday. 

Foreign visitor numbers totaled 56.7 million, surpassing the previous record of 51.2 million set in 2000, U.S. Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez said. 

"At a time when our economy is sluggish in other parts, such as the housing market, it's great to have a bright spot like tourism that is adding growth and energy and employment to our economy," Gutierrez said. 

Foreign visitors also spent a record $122.7 billion in the United States last year, a rise of more than 50 percent from a low set in 2003 in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks, Gutierrez said. 

A sharp drop in the dollar relative to many foreign currencies has made the United States a more attractive tourist destination, but most of the increase was among visitors from North American neighbors Canada and Mexico. 

"America is the world travel bargain, and yet 2 million fewer (overseas) travelers visited the United States in 2007 than in 2000," Roger Dow, president of the Travel Industry Association, said in a statement. 

The group has been lobbying for legislation that would impose a fee on foreign visitors to pay for a program to promote tourism in the United States, similar to ones conducted by many other countries. 

The Bush administration does not believe that is a job for government, but is working to make it easier for foreign travelers to obtain visas and move more quickly through customs once they arrive, Gutierrez said. 

"In terms of advertising and promotion, we believe that is a private sector role," Gutierrez said. 

The 56.7 million foreigners who visited the United States last year included 17.7 million from Canada, 15.1 million from Mexico and 23.9 million from overseas countries. 

Visitor numbers from Italy, Spain, Ireland, Sweden, China, South Korea and Australia all set records in 2007, while tourism from Germany, France, Brazil, Venezuela, Colombia, Argentina, Central America and the Middle East showed strong growth. 

There was a 4 percent decline in visits from Japan, which accounts for 55 percent of all Asian travelers to the United States, the Commerce Department said.


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## Carlcoxmi6ciapayroll (Apr 5, 2008)

It isn't surprising since the US is turning into a paranoid, military run sham of a country, that openly attacks it's own people let alone others around the world. It's crazy crime rate, crazy economy etc. isn't too inviting either. I feel sorry for the American people they're being bullied into a corner and soon we'll all be too hassled to even try to visit it's many beautiful landscapes.


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## xXFallenXx (Jun 15, 2007)

Carlcoxmi6ciapayroll said:


> It isn't surprising since the US is turning into a paranoid, military run sham of a country, that openly attacks it's own people let alone others around the world. It's crazy crime rate, crazy economy etc. isn't too inviting either. I feel sorry for the American people they're being bullied into a corner and soon we'll all be too hassled to even try to visit it's many beautiful landscapes.












Sorry. I dont get a chance to use this much.


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## Carlcoxmi6ciapayroll (Apr 5, 2008)

*Wow so hostile*



xXFallenXx said:


> Sorry. I dont get a chance to use this much.



Wow just an opinion sooorrrry. What an aggressive response. And coming from someone called Fallen with a lynching avatar like yours I think you need anger management for those issues. It's still a free country by my understanding which means we can say what we like, especially if it's based on personal experience. So kindly keep your bullying to yourself.


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## xXFallenXx (Jun 15, 2007)

i said sorry. :yes:


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## Burden (Feb 18, 2008)

Carlcoxmi6ciapayroll said:


> Wow just an opinion sooorrrry. What an aggressive response. And coming from someone called Fallen with a lynching avatar like yours I think you need anger management for those issues. It's still a free country by my understanding which means we can say what we like, especially if it's based on personal experience. So kindly keep your bullying to yourself.


At least he chooses to you a avatar, Mate dont be so judgemental with the name and the avatar its not like yours is any better.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

The US has a right to impose what ever restrictions and barriers for tourists that they deem fit. Like everything though, there are consequences. I have to admit that I've diverted many trips elsewhere. I consider trips to the US, but always end up elsewhere because I couldn't be bothered with the hassles. The only time I did go was when I visited my mother who lives in a small border town. She crosses once a week, so perhaps, they are more hospitable to border town residents since they are all in the same boat. When they found out she was from that town, they were less hostile. I wouldn't have gone if I wasn't with her.

There are 200+ other countries out there that are a lot more welcoming. The US has a right to do what it wants, but if things remain the same, I probably won't ever visit there. Who wants to be grilled while on their vacation? Not me. I just want to relax and enjoy myself.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

Too bad most Europeans aren't coming here to visit our cities and tourist spots, they are coming here to buy shit that they can't get at a similar price because of our dying dollar. Last time I went to Manhattan, there were literally Euros everywhere. 

Personally, I wouldn't take a 5+ hour plane ride that costs upward of $600 (like from London) just to get some cheaper stuff. I can somewhat understand the Canadians doing it, because they just north and a car ride away, but a trans-Atlantic flight for that? Well...at least you are all helping lower our trade deficit with the EU.


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## Carlcoxmi6ciapayroll (Apr 5, 2008)

*I agree*

Exactly...they are scaring people away from there with all the chaos, not to mention terrorism propoganda.


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## phillybud (Jul 22, 2007)

Carlcoxmi6ciapayroll said:


> It isn't surprising since the US is turning into a paranoid, military run sham of a country, that openly attacks it's own people let alone others around the world. It's crazy crime rate, crazy economy etc. isn't too inviting either. I feel sorry for the American people they're being bullied into a corner and soon we'll all be too hassled to even try to visit it's many beautiful landscapes.


Well, compared to the rest of the world I don't think the crime rate is "crazy". I live in Philadelphia which has one of the highest crime rates of any city in the US - near the very top. There is crime in certain very bad streets and blocks where there is drugs being sold. But most of the city is quite safe ... in Center City ladies wear gold and diamond jewelry on the streets at night. My elderly uncle and I like to take walks in parks past midnight. People walk around the city streets late at night, no problem.

Have you ever been to Latin America? South Africa and other African cities like Nairobi or Dakar? Listen, when you are in Caracas, or Rio de Janeiro, Lima, Bogota, Sao Paulo (many lovely historic cities) you do not dare wear gold jewelry in daytime. In most big cities in South America your hotel concierge will beg you to take a taxi even if you're going to a restaurant 15 minute walk away! In many cities around the world you see people put iron bars on the windows of their houses!!!

No, I think you are wrong. Most of us never had our homes broken into (the only time I was robbed was in Peru) or victims of crime. I find travelling to other countries much more scary than in the US.


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## Malsori_17 (Apr 12, 2008)

theres nothink to visit in usa
the only thing that i can think of is the grand canyon, yellow stone national park and new york city

there are many new countries improving facilities for tourism

the last time a checked spain was no.1 in the world for turism


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## Malsori_17 (Apr 12, 2008)

i personaly think that americans are out of touch with the rest of the world and thats y i wouldent go there
ive been there before and it was prity boring and its a bit hard to comunicate with them


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

Nice to hear your input.


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## Paddington (Mar 30, 2006)

xXFallenXx said:


> Sorry. I dont get a chance to use this much.


LOLOL :lol:


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## phillybud (Jul 22, 2007)

Malsori_17 said:


> theres nothink to visit in usa
> the only thing that i can think of is the grand canyon, yellow stone national park and new york city
> 
> there are many new countries improving facilities for tourism
> ...


Interestingly, more tourists visited Walt Disney World than the places listed above. Walt Disney World received 18,000,000 last year - more than any other single place in world ... about three times the number that pilgrims make to Mecca.

Only New York? Noone wants to visit San Francisco, Miami, Chicago, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, or Washington? And the National Parks - there are few vistors to Grand Teton National Park and the 100 other ones like Bryce Canyon, Zion, Mount Rushmore, Glacier, the Florida Everglades, Maine's Acadia, Yosemite - yeah, thats right! Nobody wants to go to Yosemite National Park! Or Hawai'i either!

Us poor Americans! No place to go, nothing to do! I can't understand why there are foreign tourist here at all!

Have a nice day!


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## phillybud (Jul 22, 2007)

*Check it out*

Actually, France was the country with the highest number of international tourists, followed by Spain, and the USA was in third place.

Interestingly, the USA was in First Place in the expenditure of international tourist dollar - almost US$80 Billion.

Check it out on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism


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## Franky (Nov 27, 2005)

America is probably the most megadiverse country in the world with regards to geography. You can be in the frozen Arctic or the tropics and still be on US soil. In fact, I think the US has every climatic zone imaginable. And with the US dollar at an all time low, America is a very attractive tourist destination for Canadians and Europeans alike.


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

actually that would be China, but that's a whole other story baby!

What US doesn't have is tropical (subtropics yes, eg Hawaii, but not stuff like tropical rainforest). Everything else but not tropical. China has everything from tundra to mediterranean to volcanic to atolls to jungle to karst to loesslands to plateaulands to mangroves to bamboo forests to rice terraces to grasslands to fjords to deserts (sand/rock/salt/ice) to mesas to Redwood groves to temperate rainforests.

On top of ticking off the list it has its own unique environments, eg desert glaciers in Inner Mongolia, wind valleys in Tibet, ice deserts in Xinjiang, the remains of the prehistoric Tethys sea in a vast system of salt lakes, to unique ecosystems in isolated valleys in the Tien Shan, to the indescribable Tsangpo River system. It has the tallest mountains and the deepest gorges - and still stuff is being discovered eg the biggest cavern, the tallest natural arch (both could fit the Empire State building inside/under), the tallest sand dunes, the largest wetlands and bird sanctuaries, only made known to the Western world in the 80s and 90s.

Tsangpo River:









ice deserts:











dont know what youd call these - karst stumps?:


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

CHINA - predicted to become the worlds biggest foreign tourist destination (as well as the worlds biggest source of foreign tourists) within the decade.

*1.TEMPERATE FORESTS*

deciduous
















Shennongjia, home to the mythical Wildman (read: Chinese Bigfoot) 


































Jiuzhaiguo


































the worlds largest reforrestation programs









temperate rainforests


























*2.DESERT*

(sand desert, oases, rock deserts)










































Dunhuang, with some of the worlds tallest, 820ft high dunes:











Shipton's Arch, recently 'rediscovered' by a National Geographic team in 2000. The worlds highest, the Empire State Building would scrape underneath it, 1250 ft high


























*3.SUBTROPICAL FOREST* (elephant country)

Xishuangbanna

























1500 ft Baishui waterfall, Guangzhou

















*4.TROPICAL RAINFOREST* (read: jungle), secondary, primary

Hainan
thick secondary forest, only accessible via water
















untouched primary forest (more light, huge trees, less new growth)


















*5.MANMADE LANDSCAPES*


*rice terraces* (some of these landscapes took 2000 years to create, and cover thousands of sq. miles)

Yunnan









Guangxi - (my one favourite pic of this thread)









Guilin

















































*other farmland*



















































red earth regions










































































vineyards/ Mediterranean





























































*6.ICE DESERTS*, Tibet


















Xinjiang, where glacier meets desert - the only other place that this happens is Mongolia









summer oasis









winter solitude









Tsangpo river system
















salt lakes, Tibet



















tundra and snowfields (Tibet and Manchuria)




















the worlds snowiest area, NE Asia (Siberia, Japan, Korea, Manchuria)










*7.VOLCANIC*


Wudulianchi lava fields (Black Mountain)

































Baitoushan volcano and Tianchi volcanic lake


















Tengchong volcanoes, Yunnan




































*8. BAMBOO FOREST* - in effect the largest, fastest growing grass - some species can grow 6ft in a day

Mekong river (subtropical)


























temperate (panda land)
















Bamboo species can reach 70ft high 


























*9.GRASSLANDS* -Prairies, moors, savannah and high steppe












































































*10.MARSHLAND* swamps, bogs, bayous (the worlds greatest wildfowl sites)











tens of thousands died in the marshes/ sinking mud/ quicksand during the Long March





































*mangrove swamps*






































*11.CORAL ISLANDS* Reefs, atolls, sand and coral beaches































































*12.CONIFEROUS FOREST*










































































240ft high Sequoia groves, Sichuan










Mt Huangshan





















*13. KARST LANDSCAPES*

Guilin


































































Sichuan

















Yunnan stone forests
















Hebei



















Fujian



























Wulingyuan





































*14.HIGH PLATEAU*








































*15.SALT LAKES/SALT PANS*

Over 100 salt lakes dot Tibet, the remains of the inland Tethys Sea, a prehistoric, landlocked ocean from millions of years ago (and yep two of the lakes have rumours of lake monsters).


Chaerhan 












































*16.LOESS LANDS/ MEDITERRANEAN*

semi-desert









Loess is actually vast sediment deposits from China's great rivers, much of it left by catastrophic floods and course changes. It is not desert but is in fact some of the richest, most nutrient rich land for farming, aswell as being used for millennia for troglodyte housing (equally catastrophic in earthquakes - 830,000 died from cave-ins in a 1556 earthquake).














































*17. RIVER GORGES/ CANYON LANDS*


Tiger Leaping Gorge, the deepest in the world (at 4000m twice the depth of the Grand Canyon, but vying with the Qingcheng Houshan gorge for the title), so called because legends claim a hunted tiger once leapt across it (its 25m at its narrowest point)


































The Three Gorges, Yangtze











The massive river, normally 10 miles wide, squeezes through a series of narrow inlets -the river speeds up and the depth reaches 600ft deep, the sheer walls rise thousands of feet overhead (although now raised an extra 500ft from the dam).


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## [email protected] (Jan 17, 2004)

Why the f*ck can people in this forum never stay on topic?

When someone asks a question about country A you can be sure that a forumer from country B joins the conversation and tries to promote his own country instead. This thread is about the US not about China, so there is no need to post 100 photos of Chinese landscapes in this thread, just as American forumers shouldn't spam a Chinese thread.


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## phillybud (Jul 22, 2007)

Dear Spliff Fairy:
The photos of China are really lovely. It is inspiring to see the beautifullly diverse landscapes of that great country (which so sadly needs to work on it's Human Rights record - but that's just my opinion, and another topic, and not relevent to this thread ... so let's not go there!).

The US has TROPICAL regions. Do a little research. The southernmost quarter of Florida (including the Florida Keys) IS NOT sub-tropical but fully tropical. So is the tip of Texas. More importantly Hawai'i, which has many ecological zones, is mostly tropical - not sub-tropical. The Gulfstream waters hug the eastern coast of Florida and give it it a uniquely tropical climate with a typical rainy monsoon and a hot dryer season ... that why tropical fruit like coconuts, mangoes, papaya, durian, rambutan, soursop, etc. grow in Dade County. Tropical rain forests? Yes, not only is the most tropical rainiest forest in the world in Hawai'i, but there are several in the Florida Everglades. You can see ibis, spoonbills, egrets, herons, even flamingoes there. Believe me, flamingoes are the most tropical of birds.

Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_climate

Hawai'i and southern Florida are the first examples of "tropical climate". Also check out the listing for Miami, under climate. It unequivocally states that Miami is only metropolis in the mainland of the United States that has a TRUE TROPICAL CLIMATE ... not a "sub-tropical" climate (maybe you were thinking of San Diego or Orlando???)


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

sorry I always thought the flora and fauna on Hawaii/ FLA were subtropical, as in subtropical forests and swamps, but not _jungle_ if ya know what I mean.

kind of like this, presenting _Jungle_:




























and not this, _subtropical rainforest_. 
The main difference is the lack of separate canopy/ midlevel ecosystems, and their species:



































In China anyhow, the rainforests of the south eg below Shanghai ( which has a latitude on a par with Miami) have different fauna and flora and are called subtropical - they look very similar - dense growth, palm trees, lianas etc. This stretches all the way to Hong Kong in clumps, the most famous being Xishuangbanna (think elephant country), although there are some areas there that qualify as proper tropical jungle.



However south of Hong Kong eg Hainan island, have distinct species. Its even wetter, the trees are alot bigger and the forest takes hundreds of years to reach maturity (whereas subtropical ones stay about the same) - and is divided into mature forest and new forest. Mature forest is made up of large trees, more light and more species, and little ground cover, with completely different ecosystems ranging from ground up to canopy.


they may look the same but are totally different - jungle rather than just rainforest. I really dont know about Hawaii or Florida, I thought all that was constant secondary growth befitting of their latitudes, like the Everglades or the fern forests of Big island.


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## Samy70 (Mar 15, 2008)

What really puzzles me is why so many foreigners feel they have the right to say how US immigration should work when they have no say in how it works in their own home country!


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

there is one thing unique to the world America has but China doesn't - Coastal and Sierra redwoods.

Although China is the only other country with sequoia groves, they are a separate species from the American ones. Dawn redwoods in Sichuan grow to 'only' 240 ft, the US Coast Redwoods can grow 30ft bigger, and given the time, maybe 100ft bigger.

Redwood National Park - completely unique in the world.


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## phillybud (Jul 22, 2007)

I think many countries have a unique micro-ecosystems that are not found anywhere else on earth. I can't give precise examples but I'm thinking of the Pampas of Argentina (something like the Steppes of Central Asia), the sub-arctic birch forests of Scandanavia and parts of Russia, or the cotswolds of England or the moors of Scotland. In my many travels, I was often astonished at the beauty and uniqueness of some of the landscapes I encountered in the British Isles.


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## jbkayaker12 (Nov 8, 2004)

^^^How about Alaska? Have you been there? I have a cousin who lives there, would love to visit Alaska someday.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*China groups seen as timely boost to U.S. tourism *

WASHINGTON, June 18 (Reuters) - A group of 200 tourists from China will get a cabinet-level official welcome in the United States this week -- a sign the U.S. tour industry hopes millions more will follow in their footsteps.

U.S. Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez will head up a Washington waterfront reception on Thursday for the first tourists to take advantage of a bilateral agreement allowing packaged group tourism to the United States from China.

Until now, the 300,000 Chinese citizens who visited the United States each year came only on student and business visas or to visit family members residing in the United States.

A negotiated deal under which Beijing agreed to permit group tourism to the United States and allow U.S. tourist destinations to market themselves in China is expected by 2011 to double to 600,000 the number of annual visitors from China to the United States, according to industry and government forecasts.

"This can be such a substantial boost at a time when our economy really needs it," said Lisa Simon, president of the National Tour Association. The Kentucky-based NTA is a trade organization for tourism professionals.

"It's just been a win-win for both countries," she said of the agreement, announced in Beijing last December at a meeting of the U.S.-China Joint Commission on Commerce and Trade.

Industry data show that 13 percent of China's population of 1.3 billion people, or 176 million people, now can afford leisure travel. Outbound travel from China reached 20-30 million trips in 2006 and was expected to increase 75 percent by 2010, and reach 100 million outbound trips by 2020.

Simon, who did not take part in the negotiations, said the countries agreed to standards for U.S. tour operators to ensure that they translated materials into Chinese, employed competent bilingual translators on every tour, kept promised itineraries and made sure the tourists departed and returned as a group.

The Chinese government's "primary concern is ... that their visitors are treated well when they're over here, that they get what they pay for and expect, and there were concerns that they don't overstay their visas," she said.

China's Beijing Youth Daily reported on Wednesday that the inaugural group of tourists who will receive red carpet treatment during an evening boat tour of the U.S. capital were mostly middle-aged and elderly from Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou who paid about $3,000 for a 10-day group tour.

According to the U.S. Commerce Department's web site, Chinese citizens visiting the United States spend $6,000 during an average trip, more than visitors from other countries.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*US visa system reform seen key to wooing tourists *

WASHINGTON, May 12 (Reuters) - The complicated U.S. visa system hurts tourism and must be reformed if the United States wants to attract lucrative tourism from countries like China, India and Brazil, travel industry officials said.

The U.S. Travel Association announced a plan to help reform the visa process which it said could create 1.3 million U.S. jobs and add $859 billion to the U.S. economy by 2020 through increased overseas tourism.

"The challenge we have is the unnecessary, burdensome U.S. visa system," said USTA president Roger Dow. "It's really self-imposed barriers that we put on ourselves as a country that have caused us to lose international travel and that have stymied international growth."

Travelers have criticized the United States for long waits to get a visa and for a lack of access in some countries to U.S. consular offices. Some potential tourists have to travel across their country just for an interview for a visa.

Figures released by USTA show that while travel is the largest U.S. industry export sector, the United States has failed to keep pace with other parts of the world -- such as Western Europe -- as a travel destination in the past decade.

Looking specifically at growing economies like China, India and Brazil, global long-haul travel grew 140 percent from 2000 to 2010 and is projected to double again over the next decade.

But only a fraction of that travel -- and the billions of dollars in revenue it creates -- went to the United States.

In 2010 more than half the Brazilians traveling overseas went to Europe while 29 percent went to the United States. Nearly three times as many Chinese -- who spend the most on average while overseas -- chose Europe over the United States.

Top reasons for not visiting the United States were the visa process and strict security measures, the association said, referring to 2010 travelers' surveys.

The U.S. visa process from beginning to end can take as long as 145 days in Brazil and 120 days in China, a USTA report said. In contrast, Britain takes an average of 12 days to process visas in Brazil and 11 days in China.

U.S. 'DREAM DESTINATION'

While the United States is the most frequently cited "dream destination" for Chinese tourists, France had 18 percent more Chinese visitors last year, a USTA report said. It said France's visa application process is more efficient.

"These are some of the fastest growing economies in the world," said Dow. "Shouldn't we be getting those people coming to the United States?"

U.S. Senator Amy Klobuchar, a Democrat who chairs a subcommittee focused on export promotion and competitiveness, said the travel industry was important to help President Barack Obama meet his stated goal of doubling exports by 2014.

"We see it as part of our economic recovery. I see this as a way to get jobs in our country," Klobuchar said.

"Since 9/11 we have lost 20 percent of the international tourism market," she said. "Obviously after 9/11 there were changes that had to be made to our security measures. Now we've made those changes and we have to look at how can we make this more efficient, still keeping the security in place."

Klobuchar supported the recommendations of the U.S. Travel Association report which urged the State Department to hire more consular officers and reduce visa interview wait times to 10 days or less. It also proposed expanding the number of countries in the the visa waiver program, which allows citizens of 36 nations to travel for up to 90 days without a visa.


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

^^ Brazilians don't need visas for short tourism or business stays in Europe.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

^ Wasn't the article referring to UK visa processing times (not Europe Schengen)?


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