# VIENNA | Public Transport



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

*Viennas "U-Bahn" (metrosystem)*

The metro network of the 1.8 million inhabitants counting Vienna is called U-Bahn (U for Untergrund=underground)
Its current total length is 83,7 km but it is still expanding. There are five lines in operation: U1, U2, U3, U4 and U6. The line U5 has been missing for many decades but is being added within the next years. 

Generally speaking, the public transportation system of Vienna is efficient, clean and safe, with the U-Bahn being tightly interconnected with a huge tram system (one of the largest still existing systems world wide), a large bus system plus the S-Bahn (mostly) in the periphery. (S-Bahn is the suburban railway which frequents the stations every 15 minutes mostly, or on parts with multiple lines more often)

Network plan of U-Bahn and S-Bahn in 2018:









https://oekastatic.orf.at/static/images/site/oeka/2018028/ubahnnetz.5718155.jpg










https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...ssteg_und_U-Bahn-Brücke_(109552)_IMG_3564.jpg



U1 and U3 were constructed from scratch as modern metro lines. The largest part of U4 and U6 was based on the former "Stadtbahn" facilities from the monarchy which have been extended substantially since. The U4 line has been adopted to a full metro system equivalent to U1 and U3 (causing some damage and loss of historical heritage) while the U6 was adopted less radically, keeping the historic buildings and stations intact and more like a "Stadtbahn" in the German sense. Frequency of service is however very high (4-6 min). The U6 is also to considerable parts not underground but above street level on aqueducts.


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## Gag Halfrunt (Jun 25, 2006)

That's a hoopy name, Slarti.  

Have you seen the Clint Eastwood film _Firefox_? Vienna appears as Moscow, with the U-Bahn as the Moscow metro.


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## Bitxofo (Feb 3, 2005)

I really like Vienna metro.
:yes:
I remember we realized there tha station signs and diagrams are very similar to Barcelona metro. 

Very nice system!! kay:
:wink2:


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## Alargule (Feb 21, 2005)

If you want to know more about the history of line U2, you should visit this page. It explains in detail the history of the line (and of all other lines, too).


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## micro (Mar 13, 2005)

Vienna is great! The logo is actually like this:


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## Alargule (Feb 21, 2005)

The one thing I find most appealing to the Vienna U-bahn is the fact that 'old meets new': you've got the old infrastructure and (sometimes) stations of lines U4 and U6, and the more modern looking ones of lines U1, U2 and U3.


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## lpioe (May 6, 2006)

looks nice

hopefully other forumers will also present their cities networks


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## Anekdote (Apr 11, 2005)

More pictures


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## samba_man (Dec 26, 2004)

Nice


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Anekdote said:


> More pictures


Actually thats the single subway train of this kind that is operational yet. Not that the Wiener Linien would not have a bunch of them in their garages, but Austrian bureaucracy wants one document more; again. Before this document is not where it should be, you have to search for this single "prototype" that does normal service allready now.

I guess within the next months though, that at least half a dozen of the new trains will enter service on U3 and/or U1 or so. With others following soon. 

To be honest the sole time I drove with them I was drunk, so I can remind it only "blurry"  They are clean (as normally all metro trains in Vienna are), very well illuminated, and they have an airconditioner that the current ones have not. They also look nicer


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## HeMo (May 8, 2006)

bitxofo said:


> I really like Vienna metro.
> :yes:
> I remember we realized there tha station signs and diagrams are very similar to Barcelona metro.
> 
> ...


The design of the Vienna undergroubnd was "invented" by a group of then young architects called "Guppe U-Bahn". A lot of it was pretty new in the late 60s / early 70s (removable station panelling insteaf of cearmic tiles etc.) and the whole conept received numerous internationl awards and incidentally when Washington DC was planning its first lines the cities experts had a look at the Viennese system first. So maybe Barcelona's planers had a field trip to Veinna too.


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

Great photos. The UN buildings look like Toronto City Hall (the curved ones). Same architect?


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

samsonyuen said:


> Great photos. The UN buildings look like Toronto City Hall (the curved ones). Same architect?


The UN buildings in Vienna have been planned by the Austrian architect Johann Staber and has been constructed from 1973 to 1979. 

How does the Toronto City Hall look like?


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## IU (Apr 8, 2006)

Looks great! When did the first line open?


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

indiansunite said:


> Looks great! When did the first line open?


Depends on how you define it. The "U-Bahn", the real metro system opened its first line officially in 1976. 

But it heavily relied from the beginning on on the "Stadtbahn" network that was opened in the year 1899, only a few decades after the whole amazing imperial palaces and buildings have been built at the Ringstraße. At a time when Vienna still was the capital of a country with 50 million people. All the interesting old looking stations derive from this Stadbahn, but are now part of the modern metronet. Some lines are entirely new like the U3 and the U1. U6 and U4 however are to a great part basing on the tunnels and stations from the Stadtbahn, being adopted to a modern metro. U2 is currently being enlarged to a full line that deserves its name and bases on a premetro line adopted to full metro with the added kilometres being planned as metro right from the start.

The actual U-Bahn program with the clear intend to make a real metro network comes from the early 70's. Enlargement continued up today.


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## thc_stoned (Jul 3, 2006)

Looks very well planned.


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## Arpels (Aug 9, 2004)

nice system, in fact the curved buildings looks like Toronto City Hall :uh:


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Good thread, Slarti, but in fact the UN station is a U1 stop.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

davidkunz/VIE said:


> Good thread, Slarti, but in fact the UN station is a U1 stop.


What? Where? :hammer: 
I'm turning red in shame and start to love the unlimited edit function of that forum  (I should counter read the stuff I write on this board) But its Transdanubien anyway


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

Vienna's U-Bahn is nice, punctual and clean; safe too. Minus points for parts of Karlsplatz though.


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

I have a request, even that is not really related to the U-Bahn network, but is Public transport related anyway.

Where can I get some pictures of the smaller buses that are used within the 1st District; the ones manufactured by VW with double akses at the rear.

Prost :cheers:


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

AltinD said:


> I have a request, even that is not really related to the U-Bahn network, but is Public transport related anyway.
> 
> Where can I get some pictures of the smaller buses that are used within the 1st District; the ones manufactured by VW with double akses at the rear.
> 
> Prost :cheers:


As you wish. But to be honest it was not easy to find them. The official folder of the Wiener Linien has pictures of nearly every vehicle they ever ran, except for the one you ask for. 
Anyway, here you have pictures from it from all possible perspectives.

http://public-transport.net/bus/Austria/Wien/Bus_KB.html











They look a bit weird, or lets say funny in my eyes. Like a real bus cut into halfs and added to a van-cockpit 


What do you need the pics for? Just out of interest?


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

AltinD said:


> Vienna's U-Bahn is nice, punctual and clean; safe too. Minus points for parts of Karlsplatz though.


Karlsplatz has improved lately. They opened a police station directly at the Karlsplatz exit of the metro station. And at the U1 level as also otherwhere in the station there are now social workers that do a great job there, not at least in looking that order remains.

Not that Karlsplatz has become a highlight but it really improved. But luckily I am hardly ever there.


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## nastyathenian (Jun 17, 2006)

Vienna’s subway provides an excellent coverage of all the places that are of interest to the tourist. I visited Vienna recently and I traveled almost the whole U-Bahn network. Especially U6 provides spectacular views of the city, as it is mostly elevated. I also liked tramway line 2 that goes round the historical ring. I didn’t use the S-Bahn at all, but I used the CAT train to and from the airport, taking advantage of the facility of checking in at Wien Mitte instead of the airport.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

nastyathenian said:


> Vienna’s subway provides an excellent coverage of all the places that are of interest to the tourist. I visited Vienna recently and I traveled almost the whole U-Bahn network. Especially U6 provides spectacular views of the city, as it is mostly elevated. I also liked tramway line 2 that goes round the historical ring. I didn’t use the S-Bahn at all, but I used the CAT train to and from the airport, taking advantage of the facility of checking in at Wien Mitte instead of the airport.


Then you might like to hear that the station "Wien Mitte" is being torn down within the next weeks or so.  Construction for the new complex start hopefully soon too.

Btw, parts of the S-Bahn look like the U6 stations in principal. At least the line S45 in the west of Vienna. The major difference between S-Bahn and U-Bahn really seems to be that S-Bahn drives only every 15 minutes or in the periphery perhaps half an hour. (of course the system, vehicles, and companies differ from the U-Bahn, but that does not really weigh heavy, as your ticket is as valid for the S-Bahn as it is for tram, bus or U-Bahn.)

PS: U6 is cool  Not just the line but also some pretty nice nightlife locations are to find directly below it in the Stadtbahnbögen.


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

Slartibartfas said:


> Karlsplatz has improved lately. They opened a police station directly at the Karlsplatz exit of the metro station. ...


I had the chance to pass through the station when I was in Vienna in mid September, and there were a couple of Polizeiman looking "angrily" at me for pulling my 2 luggages.


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

Slartibartfas said:


> As you wish. But to be honest it was not easy to find them. The official folder of the Wiener Linien has pictures of nearly every vehicle they ever ran, except for the one you ask for.
> Anyway, here you have pictures from it from all possible perspectives.
> 
> http://public-transport.net/bus/Austria/Wien/Bus_KB.html
> ...



Thanks alot for that. I did check Wiener Linien website and couldn't find any.

I saw them when I was recently in Vienna and wanted to show the pictures to some fellow VW enthusiasts.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

*U-Bahn in Vienna - U4 (Part One)*










I decided to try and give a detailed description with pictures of all 5 Viennese metro lines.
The network is somehow underrated, even though it spans the whole city and is by far the most important public transport system in Vienna.

It might not be as grand, historic and long as London's, Paris' or Berlin's, and not as fancy and hip as Copenhagen's, but without it the city would be lost.

I start with one of my most frequently used lines, the line U4.


U4


Hütteldorf - Heiligenstadt

Identification colour: Green.

Length: 16,5 kms
Travel time: 29 mins
Stations: 20
Transfer possibilities: 4 to S-Bahn, 6 to U-Bahn

In 1898, the tracks were constructed for Vienna's Stadtbahn.
The Stadtbahn era ended in 1976, when the first U-Bahn trainset went in service on these old tracks.

Architecture is not very varied on this particular line. There are mainly the historic station buildings by Otto Wagner at one end of the platform, and additionally, new exits were built on the other ends in the past few years.

There are hardly any real underground segments on the U4, due to its Stadtbahn (= city train) past.

Let's get this started...


Hütteldorf

Change here for:
Regional bus lines
S-Bahn
147, 53B

Hütteldorf station is a transfer station in the very west of the city, surrounded by greenery and residential areas. The station also serves as an international train station along the Westbahn and as the main line to the Gerhard-Hanappi Stadium.










Tunnels connect the railway and U-Bahn platforms:









The platform:









The interior of a typical U-type car, still the most common type of trainset in Vienna:









Ober St.Veit

Change here for:
54B, 55B

The first stop along the line, typical in layout and architecture for U4:









The inside of a new V-type set:










Unter St.Veit

Change here for: 
47A

Nothing special here:










Braunschweiggasse
The new exit:










Hietzing
That's were eastbound trains usually fill up. That's partly because of the Schönbrunn Zoo and gardens, partly because of the 3 tram lines that pass this station.

Change here for:
Regional bus lines
10, 58, 60
51A, 56B, 58B, 156B




















Schönbrunn

Change here for:
10A

This station is located in front of the Schönbrunn palace and is therefore popular with tourists.

The original building:









The new one, built closer to the proper castle:









This is one of the stations that could retain their original character:










Meidling Hauptstraße

Change here for:
9A, 15A, 63A

A pretty ugly station, one of the few on the U4 line with the platform between the tracks:



















Längenfeldgasse

Change here for:
U6
12A

One of six interchanges along the line.









U6 to the left, u4 to the right:


















That's what it looks like on the outside (facing east). The U6 tracks actually "embrace" the U4 tracks:










Margaretengürtel

Change here for:
6, 18

Once again, an old entrance building alongside a new one:



















Pilgrimgasse

Change here for:
12A, 13A, 14A, 59A





















Kettenbrückengasse

Kettenbrückengasse is one of the stops for the Naschmarkt, one of Europe's biggest markets.

Love that facade:



















Karlsplatz

Change here for:
U1, U2
1, 2, 62, 65, D
4A, 59A
Light rail to Baden 

Vienna's biggest U-Bahn interchange, also one of the main gateways to the city center. Three lines cross each other here. I only concentrated on the U4 platforms:

Urban shithole:




























Stadtpark

One of the most beutiful stations, still very much like it was a hundred years ago:




























Landstraße - Wien Mitte

Change here for:
U3
S-Bahn, City-Airport Train
O, 74A










The entry hall to all Metro and S-Bahn lines:










Schwedenplatz

Change here for:
U1
1, 2, 21, N
2A

A very important station, this, however, is not the main entrance:









A typical station sign, displaying how the ID colours of the lines guide you where you need:









Many stations are equipped with "Infoscreens":










Schottenring

Change here for:
U2
1, 2, 31
3A

U2 to the left, U4 to the right. A rather practical transit solution, however doomed to disappear with the reconstruction that is needed for the extension of the U2 line (to the EURO stadium).



















Roßauer Lände










The station from above:










Friedensbrücke

Change here for:
5, 33





























Spittelau

Change here for:
U6
S-Bahn
35A





























Heiligenstadt
The northern terminus.

Change here for:
S-Bahn
D
10A, 11A, 38A, 39A
Regional bus lines










two generations:









being turned around:










THAT WAS LONG!!!

I hope you got to know this fifth of Vienna's metro network, the other four lines will follow asap.


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## alta-bc (Jun 27, 2006)

Great photos! I especially like the ones where I can see a bit of the neighborhood.
Please keep the pictures coming!


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## Falubaz (Nov 20, 2004)

:O !!!
i like ur pics. its interesting how different the entrances are. my favorite is this one


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Pretty basic, isn't it?


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## Gag Halfrunt (Jun 25, 2006)

*davidkunz*, have you seen the Clint Eastwood film Firefox? It used locations in Vienna to stand in for Moscow, and the U-Bahn appears as the Moscow metro. The goofs page for Firefox on the Internet Movie Database says that a "Suedtirolerplatz" station sign can be seen at one point.


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## Captain Obvious (Sep 13, 2002)

I like the Vienna metro a lot. When visiting the city, I accidentally rode the metro without paying (it was an "on your honor" system, if I recall). I just walked on to the platform and never noticed where I was supposed to pay - even after looking around for a while. At another station, I did find the ticketcard machines more easily.


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## snupix (Apr 27, 2005)

Excellent! Looking forward to the U6! :cheers:


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## micro (Mar 13, 2005)

Nice series of photos! They are showing very well the high-quality station architecture and high-quality trains in Vienna.


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## DonQui (Jan 10, 2005)

this thread took a lot of work, great job! :banana:


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Wow, great work.


I would not be so rigorous in condemning the modern stations. Of course I also like the old good preserved ones too, but actually the new design is pretty fine. In comparision to other metros in Europe it has major advantages. 

I would say only some of those stations that fall out of the general new scheme and are not old either are a bit ugly. (But not all of them either).

What are you saying of the new modern part of the Karlsplatz station? The white marbled ways, with those very cool installations counting the people in love, the days until Chernobyl is habitable again, the numbers of Schnitzel consumed since 1 Jan, the number Pi (at least the first few 100 positions) etc.. 

Did the actual master design of the Wiener U-Bahn not win an award?


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

The problem is that the "modern" stations are not modern but nothing more and nothing less than functional standard architecture from the 60s, 70s and 80s.


PS:
Watch out for the U3 coming in the evening. Step back and mind the gap!


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## hktreasure (Nov 19, 2003)

viele gut!


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

*U-Bahn in Vienna - U3 (Part Two)*










A runner up to my first thread about the U4



U3

Ottakring - Simmering

This line was only opened in 1991 and the last branch (Erdberg - Simmering) was inaugurated in 2000.

Nearly all of this line is underground, except for the northwestern terminus Ottakring and the former southeastern terminus Erdberg.

Identification colour: Orange.

Length: 13,5 kms
Travel time: 25 mins
Stations: 21
Transfer possibilities: 4 to S-Bahn, 4 to U-Bahn


Let's roll...

Ottakring

Change here for:
45B, 46B, 146B
J, 46
S-Bahn

The entrance under the tracks to the sidings which are actually located inside of a residential building, the brick wall to the right belong to the viaduct of the S45 line:





























Kendlerstraße

You can see a pleasent difference to the pretty worn U4 stations:





























Hütteldorfer Straße

Change here for:
10, 49

I had the honour of visiting this station during the tunnel boring works. Pretty impressive to say how it's changed since, I must say...







































Johnstraße

Change here for: 
49
10A, 12A

Lots of exits are integrated into buildings constructed in the 90s or early 2000s:


















Stylish geometry is a common feature in most new-ish stations.











Schweglerstraße

Change here for:
9, 49
12A




























Pretty cool work of art:











Westbahnhof

One of the most important stops along the route. Eastbound trains always really fill up here.

Change here for:
U6
Austrian Federal Railways (ÖBB)
S-Bahn
5, 6, 9, 18, 52,58
Regional buslines
Airport Shuttle Busses

I only took pics of one exit. The other ones will be featured in the U6 edition.









The underpass junction under the Europaplatz. You can reach every tramway, bus, S-Bahn, railway and underground line without getting wet:











Zieglergasse

Zieglergasse and Neubaugasse stations are architecturally identical:



















Neubaugasse
Change here for:
13A












Volkstheater

Change here for:
U2
1, 2, D, J, 46, 49
48A

A very important and interesting station:
The entrance on the Ringstraße, where you can get on all the tramway lines.









The view from the exit, Austria's parliament and the town hall behind it:









The platform itself, artistically enhanced. 











Herrengasse
Unlikethe U4, the U3 actually crosses the very city center (between Volkstheater and Stubentor)

Change here for:
1A, 2A, 3A











Stephansplatz - City
The most important touristic station.
Change here for:
1A, 3A

Spot the station!




















Stubentor

Change here for:
1, 2
74A

The standard exit:









Built into relicts of the former city wall from the middle ages:









The tracks lie above each other here, so this rather unusual view is possible:
The westbound track below, the eastbound track above:




















Landstraße - Wien Mitte

Change here for:
U4
S-Bahn, City-Airport Train
O, 74A

I showed you the main hall in this thread, so I tried to capture some different places this time:










U4 to the left, U3 to the right:











Rochusgasse

Change here for:
4A, 74A, 79A






























Kardinal-Nagl-Platz

Change here for:
77A, 79A






























Schlachthausgasse

Change here for:
18, 72
78A, 80B, 83A, 84A (stadium lines)

This stop is close to Vienna's wonderful tramway museum, I can really recommend it to everyone who is even remotely interested.










A perfect example of well connected PT:




















Erdberg
The former terminus of this line, also home to the U-Bahn maintenance.

Change here for:
78A, 79A
Eurolines busses



















After Erdberg, the new track (opened 2000) disappears underground again:











Gasometer
Vienna didn't decide to tear our former gasometers down, but to totally reactivate them with flats and shopping centers and even an event hall. 

Change here for:
80A

Looks pretty cool:





























Zippererstraße

Change here for:
71, 72



















Childrens' paintings:











Enkplatz


Change here for:
6, 71, 72
6A, 15A






























Simmering
The southeast terminus.

Change here for:
Austrian Federal Railways (ÖBB)
S-Bahn
71, 72
69A, 73A

As it is underground, you don't notice you are at a terminus:









What you see first, when you emerge from the worms and the moles:









The station buliding directly under the tracks of the railway:












And that is the end of that! I encourage praisning words. 
Actually, I expect a little more resonance than on my U4 thread.. 

Thanks for watching!


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

There are four of them actually.

Vienna Gasometers on Wikipedia.


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

The U-bahn's great. I was really impressed when I rode it. (I stayed by Westbahnhof.)


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

InterCity Hotel?


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Expect the U1 in the afternoon.


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## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

According to german definition the U6 would be a typical Stadtbahn line. It's comparable to the U18 of Essen and Mülheim. 
In Vienna on the U6 they use almost the same waggons as they are used at Cologne's lowfloor Stadtbahn.


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## Rbs (Nov 9, 2006)

Awesome thread... Congratulations...


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## mrmoopt (Nov 14, 2004)

JoKo65 said:


> According to german definition the U6 would be a typical Stadtbahn line. It's comparable to the U18 of Essen and Mülheim.
> In Vienna on the U6 they use almost the same waggons as they are used at Cologne's lowfloor Stadtbahn.


Even if you go by stadtbahn definition, the trains are way too long to be 'light'! (I know there's at least 3 of the sets marshalled together to form 1 U6 line train)


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

*U-Bahn in Vienna - U2 (Part Four)*










U3 U4 U6



U2

Karlsplatz - Schottenring

Identification colour: Purple

Length: 3,5 kms
Travel time: 8 mins
Stations: 6
Transfer possibilities: 4 to U-Bahn



Originally, the line U2 was not a Metro line, but rather an underground tram (premetro) that circled the city center. With the conversion to U-Bahn ops in 1980, the perfect N-S tram connections were cut. Basically, the U2 was one of the biggest mistakes in Vienna's PT history.
It is still by far the shortest line but will be extended to the Ernst-Happel-Stadion (EURO) in May 2008. 



Karlsplatz

U1, U4
1, 2, 62, 65, D
4A, 59A
Light rail to Baden

This station is one of the most expansive ones and has dozens of exits all over Karlsplatz, the Ringstraße and adjacent streets.
This one is the closest one to Karlskirche:









U1 and U4 to the left, U2 to the right:









Beautiful:









Since it was never intended to use this tunnel for a metro, the design doesn't fit in well with the other metro lines as it far more basic and far less sophisticated:










Museumsquartier

Change here for:
2A, 57A

Another side effect of the tramway past is the fact that there are hardly any real station buildings, but rather small escalator/staircase/elevator huts that sometimes only take you to one particular platform:




























Volkstheater

Change here for:
U3
1, 2, D, J, 46, 49
48A







































Rathaus

Change here for:
J

The station is located behind Vienna's town hall (= Rathaus):


















The platforms do not face each other:











Schottentor - Universität

Change here for:
1, 2, 37, 38, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, D
1A, 40A
An important station with loads of tramway lines.

University in the background, the main station building in the foreground:









A rather modest entrance:



























Some pictures from the underground tram loop. Five of the ten lines that stop here use this loop (Jonas-Reindl) under the Rooseveltplatz:






























Schottenring

Change here for:
U4
1, 2, 31
3A










Pretty embarassing:









Tramway line 31 and the Ringturm, Vienna's first highrise building:









I could hardly believe my eyes:









U4 tracks to the left and the right, U2 in the middle:









And in only 16 minutes, she'll be back again:










I know I promised the U1 for today but time didn't allow it. 
Hope you enjoyed this funny little line, nonetheless.


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## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

cal_t said:


> Even if you go by stadtbahn definition, the trains are way too long to be 'light'! (I know there's at least 3 of the sets marshalled together to form 1 U6 line train)


There ist no rule, that Stadtbahn trains can't be long. At Stadtbahn Rhein-Ruhr the trains often consist of three or four Stadtbahnwagen B.


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## JoKo65 (Feb 28, 2007)

And according to „light can't be long“ look at the moscow light metro!


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## snupix (Apr 27, 2005)

davidkunz/VIE said:


> Hope you enjoyed this funny little line, nonetheless.


We surely did! Funy little line, but not for long


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## Frog (Nov 27, 2004)

Quite an interestng variety, any reason that the platforms are that layout at Rathaus station? I haven't seen such a layout in a metro before


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## Grotlaufen (Mar 2, 2007)

Like David said, it was once a tram tunnel. Thus the platforms were only 75 meters long, which isn´t enough for a full scale train with six cars. In recent years, the stations have been renovated + their platforms have been extended to 115 meters which makes them look rather funny. Plus, the station Lerchenfelder Strasse (between Rathaus and Volksoper) closed in 2003.


I believe the extension to the Stadium next year will make this line much more attractive  (even though it means that tram line 21 between Schwedenplatz and Pratern will have to close down  ). I am not sure the line will have so many passangers east of Praterstern except match days, but when the extension across Danube is completed 2010, hopefully...


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

> even though it means that tram line 21 between Schwedenplatz and Pratern will have to close down


Which is once again a testament to the crappy transport planning of our beloved city government...

Pax will have to cope with closed down stations and longer walks.
Subways can never replace tramways. They serve entirely different purposes and it's high time they learnt that...


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## Grotlaufen (Mar 2, 2007)

<--- No, you don´t understand. U-Bahn is for your own good. Strassenbahnen are inefficient and block the streets when some high-top-city official is underway in Auto to a meeting somewhere. U-bahn, on the other hand, is a rationale way of transportation. Planned and built under streng supervision from our great engineers. You can cross the street without having to see a single car (or a close encounter of the mayor´s limo in your left hip). U-bahn get you from station to station underground. That´s where all our people should be.

***End of message from Rathaus der Stadt Wien***


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Sehr wohl, Herr Doktor Häupl!

:lol:


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

What tact do usual Stadbahn lines have?
The U6 is frequency is 6 min normally. Its also on certain parts underground as you can see above. Furthermore is it run by the same company as the subway. (in contrast to the S-Bahn that is run by the national railway ÖBB).

Yes the technology is without 3rd line more of the type of a Stadtbahn. But does that matter? Even if you call the U6 a Stadtbahn therefore, its still used by the people like a subway.


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## wc eend (Sep 16, 2002)

U6 is my favourite!

Btw, when will you make a report of the U5?


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Grotlaufen said:


> <--- No, you don´t understand. U-Bahn is for your own good. Strassenbahnen are inefficient and block the streets when some high-top-city official is underway in Auto to a meeting somewhere. U-bahn, on the other hand, is a rationale way of transportation. Planned and built under streng supervision from our great engineers. You can cross the street without having to see a single car (or a close encounter of the mayor´s limo in your left hip). *U-bahn get you from station to station underground. That´s where all our people should be.*
> 
> ***End of message from Rathaus der Stadt Wien***


:lol: :lol: :lol: rofl

But seriously, these hostile policies towards the PT called Straßenbahn is so anachronistic. Its hard to accept that a city with such a (still) large network acts like it would be 1960. 

How long will it take until Vienna will recognize that the Straßenbahn is better than a lousy Bus line? And also that while the subway is great, the tighter better accessible Straßenbahn network can be a very precious addition.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

^^ In 2020, perhaps...


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Some more Schottentor pictures:

The general view of the underground terminus, the University in the background: 









Five lines stop at the underground level, five at street level:


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)




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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

very good pictures, keep it going!


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## WotaN (Jun 15, 2004)

Franzl said:


> ^^
> This is schottentor station. 8 tram lines and a underground line stop there. Whats so interesting about it?


Well, could you point another tram loop with tracks one above another, and the lower level smootly connected with underground shopping center?


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## brisbanite (Dec 11, 2007)

Franzl said:


> ^^
> This is schottentor station. 8 tram lines and a underground line stop there. Whats so interesting about it?


I saw this place when I was there a few years ago and was quite impressed.


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## ntly1 (Jul 21, 2006)

I'd been to Vienna, I think their public transport system is just *EXCELLENT* !:cheers:


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)




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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Ready for Euro 2008


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## city_thing (May 25, 2006)

I found this, and thought it was quite cool.

From Wikipedia...










Das u-bahn!


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## Grotlaufen (Mar 2, 2007)

Regarding Schottentor: How about extending S 40 from Franz-Josefs Bahnhof to Stephansplatz via Schottentor? Excavations could be done fairly easily if you used the green area between the street and the tram line here: http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/8870/23oc5.jpg
It could afterwards be used as a light shaft for the S40 platform, which would be located somewhere around 10 meter below the tram concourse in order to be grade separated with the U2 line. The depth would anyways be neccessary for the endstation at Stephansplatz which would be located somewhere around 30-40 meter below the ground. 


This way commuters from Tulln would have a great access to the city, and it would also be easier to commute to the university. Anyone on the U3 or U1 could change at Stephansplatz onto the S-trains heading north. You could also have a line like S1 (an example) or another S-line from the north to go to Stephansplatz via Handelskai and Heiligenstadt into the city and the university area. 



Perhaps I just suggested the most expensive 1 km-project ever, but I believe it would be great for the Viennese transport system as a whole, not at least for the university.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Grotlaufen said:


> Regarding Schottentor: How about extending S 40 from Franz-Josefs Bahnhof to Stephansplatz via Schottentor? Excavations could be done fairly easily if you used the green area between the street and the tram line here: http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/8870/23oc5.jpg
> It could afterwards be used as a light shaft for the S40 platform, which would be located somewhere around 10 meter below the tram concourse in order to be grade separated with the U2 line. The depth would anyways be neccessary for the endstation at Stephansplatz which would be located somewhere around 30-40 meter below the ground.
> 
> 
> ...


I think the key term here is "most expensive 1km-project ever"

What do you gain in comparision to the status quo, and how much would it cost.

You have the D tram from Franz Josephsbahnhof to the university. Of course it might be a bit slower. But if you dont want to get to the university, you have already today the chance to switch to the U4 and U6 in Spittelau.

I am convinced you can invest that fortune far better elsewhere in the PT. For example getting a tight network on the other side of the danube.

PS:
I know this map I made once is not perfect, but I think it fits in here. 









yellow lines are the tram
white lines are bus lines


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Nice map, good work!

About Grotlaufens idea: I like the idea even though I know, that it would never be realized. But the idea isn't bad. subway constructions are generally very expensive, but I prefer a real subway than "fake subways" as we have enough (U 1 after donauinsel for example). 
you could make an underground line passing schottentor, stephansplatz, stubentor for example or schwarzenbergplatz and than head to the south of the city.


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Schottentor


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## gappa (Mar 13, 2007)

Vienna is a very beautiful city, and one that I one day hope to visit. Especially as it is one of the worlds greatest tram cities, like my current residence of Melbourne.


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

tram map:


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## Grotlaufen (Mar 2, 2007)

stefanguti said:


> Nice map, good work!
> 
> About Grotlaufens idea: I like the idea even though I know, that it would never be realized. But the idea isn't bad. subway constructions are generally very expensive, but I prefer a real subway than "fake subways" as we have enough (U 1 after donauinsel for example).
> you could make an underground line passing schottentor, stephansplatz, stubentor for example or schwarzenbergplatz and than head to the south of the city.


I know the idea is very far-flung, but at the same time I find the idea very good to somehow extend the S-bahn from its current terminus. Franz-Josefs Bahnhof isn´t a very great transportation hub nor a very great commercial area (though the Austra Creditanstalt-building above the Franz-Josefsbahnhof is very imposing). 

The idea of constructing U-bahn to Schwarzenbergplatz is what they have in plan for the U2-line, if I´m not misinformed. Perhaps an even better idea would be to skip the southern extension of U2 altogether and instead construct a S-bahn/semiUbahn from Franz-Josefs Bahnhof - Schottentor - Stephansplatz - Schwarzenbergplatz - Wien Hauptbahnhof. That would give the commuters north of Vienna a really good connection to the coming Hauptbahnhof.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Grotlaufen said:


> I know the idea is very far-flung, but at the same time I find the idea very good to somehow extend the S-bahn from its current terminus. Franz-Josefs Bahnhof isn´t a very great transportation hub nor a very great commercial area (though the Austra Creditanstalt-building above the Franz-Josefsbahnhof is very imposing).
> 
> The idea of constructing U-bahn to Schwarzenbergplatz is what they have in plan for the U2-line, if I´m not misinformed. Perhaps an even better idea would be to skip the southern extension of U2 altogether and instead construct a S-bahn/semiUbahn from Franz-Josefs Bahnhof - Schottentor - Stephansplatz - Schwarzenbergplatz - Wien Hauptbahnhof. That would give the commuters north of Vienna a really good connection to the coming Hauptbahnhof.


Es gibt schon derzeit die Bim die einem in die überall möglichen Richtungen bringt. Außerdem kann man in Spittelau in U6 und U4 wechseln. Wenn man zum Stefansplatz will muss man halt mit 2 U Linien fahren, dauert aber auch nur rund 10 min von Spittelau bis zum Stephansdom. 

Wieso soll man bitte schön so viel Geld vergraben, nur damit man vielleicht 5 min schneller auf diesem speziellen Weg ist?


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Slartibartfas said:


> Es gibt schon derzeit die Bim die einem in die überall möglichen Richtungen bringt. Außerdem kann man in Spittelau in U6 und U4 wechseln. Wenn man zum Stefansplatz will muss man halt mit 2 U Linien fahren, dauert aber auch nur rund 10 min von Spittelau bis zum Stephansdom.
> 
> Wieso soll man bitte schön so viel Geld vergraben, nur damit man vielleicht 5 min schneller auf diesem speziellen Weg ist?


Ist doch nur eine Träumerei! Wir wissen eh, dass das nie realisiert wird, aber mir würde es dennoch gefallen. Stell dir mal vor, das Geld wäre egal. Ich fände es gut!
Ich habe mir gestern gedacht, U2 und "verlängerte S-Bahn" treffen einander bei Schwarzenbergplatz, und man könnte daraus ein Finanzzentrum machen. Raiffeisen Investment und andere sind ja schon dort. Auf einer Hauswand große Screens anbringen (wie Picadilly Circus zB) mit Kursen, News, Werbungen. Das würde den Platz noch moderner machen, obwohl dort prunkvolle Häuser stehen. Die Screens aber noch innerhalb des Rings zB anbringen, da steht ein Haus, das nicht so schön ist. Wie gesagt: Träumerei.


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Nightshot by myself last night:

Tramway Line 42 crossing the Gürtel.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

stefanguti said:


> Ist doch nur eine Träumerei! Wir wissen eh, dass das nie realisiert wird, aber mir würde es dennoch gefallen. Stell dir mal vor, das Geld wäre egal. Ich fände es gut!
> Ich habe mir gestern gedacht, U2 und "verlängerte S-Bahn" treffen einander bei Schwarzenbergplatz, und man könnte daraus ein Finanzzentrum machen. Raiffeisen Investment und andere sind ja schon dort. Auf einer Hauswand große Screens anbringen (wie Picadilly Circus zB) mit Kursen, News, Werbungen. Das würde den Platz noch moderner machen, obwohl dort prunkvolle Häuser stehen. Die Screens aber noch innerhalb des Rings zB anbringen, da steht ein Haus, das nicht so schön ist. Wie gesagt: Träumerei.


Na vielleicht denke ich da zu wirtschaftlich. Ich stelle mir halt vor wie großartig man da das Bim Netzwerk um dieses Geld modernisieren, beschleunigen und ausbauen könnte. Zum Beispiel den Vorschlag der Untergrundstraßenbahn die über die Herrengasse das Schottentor mit der Oper verbindet. Die Rampe beim Schottentor gäbe es ja bereits.


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Slartibartfas said:


> Na vielleicht denke ich da zu wirtschaftlich. Ich stelle mir halt vor wie großartig man da das Bim Netzwerk um dieses Geld modernisieren, beschleunigen und ausbauen könnte. Zum Beispiel den Vorschlag der Untergrundstraßenbahn die über die Herrengasse das Schottentor mit der Oper verbindet. Die Rampe beim Schottentor gäbe es ja bereits.


Das wäre natürlich auch was! Aber wie sollen die aus der Schleife am Schottentor zur Herrengasse kommen? Da müsste man ja alles komplett neu machen.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Wär vermutlich billiger als jede U-Bahn an der Peripherie und würde unvergleich mehr bringen...


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

stefanguti said:


> Das wäre natürlich auch was! Aber wie sollen die aus der Schleife am Schottentor zur Herrengasse kommen? Da müsste man ja alles komplett neu machen.


Die Station müsste man halt umbauen, aber so viel ich gehört habe, wurde die Schleife ja mit der Idee einer Verlängerung im Hinterkopf gebaut. Ich glaube nicht, dass das ein unlösbares oder sonderlich außerordentlich teures Problem wäre. Ich meine, wenns unter dem Donaukanal den Boden gefrieren um einen Tunnel bauen zu können, ist das ja der reinste Spaziergang.


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Slartibartfas said:


> Die Station müsste man halt umbauen, aber so viel ich gehört habe, wurde die Schleife ja mit der Idee einer Verlängerung im Hinterkopf gebaut. Ich glaube nicht, dass das ein unlösbares oder sonderlich außerordentlich teures Problem wäre. Ich meine, wenns unter dem Donaukanal den Boden gefrieren um einen Tunnel bauen zu können, ist das ja der reinste Spaziergang.


Den Boden gefrieren??

Also ich bin sowieso immer für einen Ausbau des öffentlichen Verkehrs. Nur in Wien dauert immer alles soooo lange... unerträglich.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

stefanguti said:


> Den Boden gefrieren??


Ich kenne mich ja auch nicht wirklich aus, aber um so knapp unter dem Donaukanal unten durch zu bauen, haben die den Boden darüber festgefrieren müssen, bis die Betonröhre fertig war. Oder irgendwie so...


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## Franzl (Aug 15, 2004)

Toucano said:


> I just returned from Vienna and here are My thoughts on Viennese Transit:
> 
> http://www.transitmiami.com/2007/03/travels-through-europe-part-2.html


Wow, you´ve done a great job! And I really enjoyed reading such an euphoric and detailed report about my hometowns transit system.


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Very good work. 
Das Design der Stationen im Süden ist schon sehr fragwürdig.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Hm, irgendwie kommt mir der Thread sehr bekannt vor...


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)




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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Wieviel Arbeit dahinter steckt...


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## brisbanite (Dec 11, 2007)

Great pic's bahnsteig, glad this old thread has been revived .


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)




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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)




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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)




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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

U2 station Schottentor


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

U2 station Museumsquartier


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

I really like your photo report and I really like U6. While many complain about it, I love the old style of the "Stadtbahn" buildings. And I really love that it is mostly elevated and not underground, so you can enjoy the view instead of just starring at black concrete tunnels


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

^^ Yeah, if only U6 wasn't so crowded all the time it would be a great fun ride.


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## Norbb (Sep 11, 2002)

*Youtube Clips*

I stumbled across some videos I made a year or so ago, and uploaded some of them. Maybe some of you out there are actually interested in this. 

Beware: The camera was impossible to hold without a bit of shaking, and the compression kills the sharpness effectively.








The almost empty middle section of the U3 platform at Westbahnhof station fills up with people after a train from the center arrives.







Filmed during rush-hour. A train enters the platform of U1 Schwedenplatz station and the crowds exchange.
Not even a minute after the train has left another one arrives.







Rush-hour footage from Stephansplatz station on the U1 platform.







Again Rush-hour, this time on the U6 platform at Westbahnhof station.







Leaving and incoming trains at U3 platform of Volkstheater station.







The first scene shows U6 train leaving Burggasse/Stadthalle station southwards, next a train emerging into Thaliastrasse station, last the section Josefstädter Strasse - Alser Strasse.







U6 on its elevated section reaches the Nussdorfer Strasse station.







U6 leaves Alterlaa station and reaches Am Schöpfwerk (ignore the announcements).
With 1272m this is the 3rd longest seperation between stations in the entire network, and the longest on the U6. Only Heiligenstadt-Spittelau (1555m) and Hütteldorf-OberSt.Veit (1341m) are longer.







U2 and U4 train leave the Schottenring station simultaneously.
As with the extension of U2 the new platform is beeing built underneath, the U2 opens its doors on both sides to allow short transfer times with U4.


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

stefanguti said:


> Das wäre natürlich auch was! Aber wie sollen die aus der Schleife am Schottentor zur *Herrengasse *kommen? Da müsste man ja alles komplett neu machen.


Where is Herrengasse? I remember the name and I think have stayed for a few days some years back on a penthouse there. It's the 3rd district right, or it's the 4th?


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Station Herrengasse is in the 1st. Maybe you are confusing?

Good videos Norbb, you can clearly hear the metro with the best closing-door-sound I know!


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## MelbourneCity (Sep 12, 2002)

I did not like this line when I was in Vienna in January.
I did not feel very safe at all - probably compounded by having a very limited knowledge of the language.

The line seemed to be packed with people affected by drugs.


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

MelbourneCity said:


> I did not like this line when I was in Vienna in January.
> I did not feel very safe at all - probably compounded by having a very limited knowledge of the language.
> 
> The line seemed to be packed with people affected by drugs.


Oh c'mon. I know for a fact that Melbourne's trams are used by the drunk and disorderly and so are the trains! Are you trying to say that you've never seen similar situations in Melbourne?! There are also many worrying incidencies of attacks at train stations in Melbourne due to the lack of CCTV at many of them.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

U6 unsafe?
Never seen a single incident there...


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

Anyone got some pictures of the USTRAB/Underground Tramway/Premetro? I just love it, especially Nr 18 from Westbahnhof to Südbahnhof is a great connection. I just wish it was renovated in a more friendly way, plus it needs more escalators. In certain stations it's a pain in the ass to carry your luggage up and down the stairways...

Wouldn't that be a project for you, Bahnsteig4? Taking photos of all USTRAB stations? 

Or photos of S45 Stations? Would love to see them all


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## Norbb (Sep 11, 2002)

Thanks rheintram. It was an excellent idea for a short recreative visit after work - and it helped testing my new camera in darker conditions.


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

Wow, thanks a lot Norbb! Finally the USTRAB get's the recognition it deserves! If the station buildings would be refurbished and modernized I'm sure it would become more attractive. Plus certain lines should be put on the U-BAHN map, such as N° 18, which is the fastest connection between Westbahnhof and Südbahnhof.


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

Central Europe is generally a very safe area and Vienna especially, despite being a huge city. People that use public transport represent the whole width of society, there are the rich, the middle class and the poor. However I have never encountered a situation where I felt particularily unsafe in Vienna's underground. Despite the fact that there are drunk and drugged people (though I claim only the small minority of all passengers), just like in any other city too.

What I like about U6/Stadtbahn is its history. I love the Jugendstil architecture and the elevated tracks. And I like that there is mostly no roof above your head, so you sometimes can enjoy the view or just look at the life going on outside.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

What you could be concerned about is pick-pocketing. Criminal organizations from Romania, Moldova, etc. see Vienna as their closest target "market".

BTW, I can't recall anyone ever stating that Vienna is a "huge city". :lol:


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

It's a big city. But not huge. Mumbai, Sao Paulo and Tokyo are huge


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Thx for the video. I never take the USTRAB but it looks kind of interesting.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Oh, yes... USTRABA rulez.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Mmh... agreed.


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

U6 extension North direction










good idea? what do you think?
Prager Straße would be a very good option too.


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)




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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

stefanguti said:


> U6 extension North direction
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How long does it take for the Bim to get from Stammersdorf to Floridsdorf?
How large would be the potential of customers? (those who can be acquired additionally in comparision to status quo?


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

I'm against it. U6 is already overstrained. With any extension it would become even worse. And the way traffic policy in vienna works, any tram/bus lines along the way would be shut down, causing even more traffic on the U6 and making access ways for passengers a lot longer.

The only interesting plan for an extension I know is connection U6 with WLB. So Trains could go directly from U6 on the WLB line to SCS. While the new WLB and the U6 T cars are almost the same, there are some differences which could cause trouble. T are broader and WLB 400 have only few doors, which would be problematic on U6.


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

It's such a pity that a part of the USTRAB was turned into U2. Tramway (Stadtbahn) with underground sections are way more flexible, cheaper and effictive.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

rheintram said:


> I'm against it. U6 is already overstrained. With any extension it would become even worse. And the way traffic policy in vienna works, any tram/bus lines along the way would be shut down, causing even more traffic on the U6 and making access ways for passengers a lot longer.
> 
> The only interesting plan for an extension I know is connection U6 with WLB. So Trains could go directly from U6 on the WLB line to SCS. While the new WLB and the U6 T cars are almost the same, there are some differences which could cause trouble. T are broader and WLB 400 have only few doors, which would be problematic on U6.


Well if demand out there would justify it (what I doubt however) I would be in favor of it. 

If the capacity on the U6 would reach a maximum, one could maybe think about reopening of Tram lines there again maybe, not necessarily in direct competition to the U6 but for establishing cross connections that take passangers away from the U6 and also could speed up the cross connections


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## Norbb (Sep 11, 2002)

IMHO the overcrowding in the U6 has much to do with the missing link between the central part of the U6 and the center. The future U5 with transfer at Alser Strasse would relieve much of the traffic.

I know that there are like 7 tramway routes connecting the Gürtel to the Ring, but look around - many people ignore them as a competitive form of transport. Thats how most of the U6->U3 mass migration at Westbahnhof with the center as destination is fed.


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Prediction


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Tramway 










*Line 6*


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## Norbb (Sep 11, 2002)

I decided to visit Schottenring station one last time before the extension of the U2 on May 10th. The current route from Schottentor to Schottenring will be degraded to a connecting track to the U4, as the U2 platforms move under the U4, instead of ending between the U4 platforms. 

First, I tried to capture how surprised I was by the awesomeness of the new escalator. Then you will see a U4 emerging from its dive below the current U2-track, next you can see a U2 using this very track above. Then decided to risk it and sticked my camera out of the window to film Schottentor-Schottenring. You can see the descending tracks to the deeper, future platforms, various building material left from the reconstruction and - during the return to Schottentor - an ascending train from a "secret" connecting track to the U1 (at ~02:15). 





Direct Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvdY4AOVHxA


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Excellent!


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

*Subway Line 3*











*Tramway Line 42*


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

* U2 extension * towards the Stadium (Euro 2008 Final)

5 new stations




Hoferat said:


> I was there today, took a few pics, but unfortunately they are no where near as impressive as seeing the real thing.
> 
> Stadion:
> 
> ...


credits to Hoferat


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## Norbb (Sep 11, 2002)

Some interesting things you can find in the tunnel between Schottentor and Volkstheater:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOHrTXxiX8s




See description on Youtube-pages for more details.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

U2 extension (Schottenring-Stadion)

5 new stations

Schottenring

The new network:









The old U2 platform at Schottenring, between the U4 platforms:









The very impressive escalators between U4 and the new U2 platforms:









Reminded me of Copenhagen a bit:









A V type trainset:









The station lies below the Danube channel. This is the eastern exit:


















I like the design:


















The perfect train for the stadium line:










Taborstraße

Very similar in design:









Daylight all the way down to the platforms:























































Praterstern

Connect to ÖBB trains, S-Bahn and U1



















The eastern access building.









The western entrance is integrated into the train station and provides the connecting tunnel to U1:





































Messe-Prater

Daylight - here, as well:


















The station from above:



























:lol:









The line rises above the surface between Messe and Krieau.










Krieau






































Stadion

Definitely the most important station and atually the reason for the extension. This stop serves as the main gateway for Ernst-Happel-Stadium, which is Vienna's EURO 2008 venue.










There are three tracks, in order to cope with the masses:




































These gates will only be in use on matchdays:






















































Hope you enjoyed this trip!


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

More U2 pictures can be found here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=20662989#post20662989


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Awesome Design!!!!


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

the design improved really well! however it didn't reach the quality of the new s-bahn stations yet.


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## Grotlaufen (Mar 2, 2007)

+: Untergrundbahn bis zum Stadion!!!

-: Kein Bim mehr bis zum Stadion (line 21 ceased its operations)


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

thx for the pictures


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

The minus prevails in a way...


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Not a problem... a pleasure, rather.


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

So much subway construction up and down the Danube - with Prague and Vienna opening new stations this month and Budapest coming soon with its M4.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Well, Prague is not exactly next to the Danube, and if it would have been up to them they might have rather choosen not to be in the Danube monarchy back then either... but I know what you mean...

lets say central Europe.


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## DJZG (Aug 2, 2007)

way to go  
i'll go and see those stations in round three weeks  

EURO 2008 is coming people  


btw... are there any news on building U2 further toward Aspern? is construction started, or it's just in planning yet?


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*Football: Vienna U2 subway will move in mysterious ways *

VIENNA, May 10, 2008 (AFP) - Vienna inaugurated on Saturday a new subway line extension, guaranteeing a faster transit from the city centre to the stadium, less than a month before the start of the European football championships.

The U2 line will now travel in just 14 minutes from the opera along the Ring boulevard, which will welcome the fan mile during the Euro, all the way to the Ernst Happel stadium, where several matches including the final will be played during the championships which will run from June 7-29.

The inauguration is the final touch to Vienna's efforts to retrofit its infrastucture in preparation for the tournament.

Euro 2008 is being jointly hosted by Switzerland and Austria.


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## Grotlaufen (Mar 2, 2007)

DJZG said:


> btw... are there any news on building U2 further toward Aspern? is construction started, or it's just in planning yet?



The extension to Aspern on the other side of Danube is under construction since 2006. To open in 2010 according to _der Plan_.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Another follow-up info:

The trainsets were built between 1979 and 1990. The particular train in the picture (# 4946) in Ütrecht is from December 1990, so merely 17.5 years old.


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)




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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

channel said:


> :wtf: the state of that building


The historical U6 stations are overhauled, one after another. Currently the station Nussdorferstraße is getting resaturated. Its not that easy as they are protected buildings and restaurations have to be done with traditional materials. As far as I know Burggasse, Währingerstraße and soon Nussdorferstraße are in very good shape, Gumperndorferstraße has been renovated as well, I would have to look how Alserstraße and Josefstädterstraße are looking like by now. The bricks you see are not visible due to laziness or lack of maintnenance. Its done deliberately to lay the walls dry in order to be able to renovate with a lasting positive result.


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)




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## ReisThijs (May 8, 2005)

Bahnsteig4 said:


> The trainsets were built between 1979 and 1990. The particular train in the picture (# 4946) in Ütrecht is from December 1990, so merely 17.5 years old.


That means, while they may look a bit oldfashioned, they are a lot newer than our other trams, those where built in 1983.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Yes. The design is old and old-fashioned, but you cannot expect technical problems.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Some random pictures from flickr:

Encounters:


















U4/Schwedenplatz









U4 crossing the Wienfluss between Landstraße and Schwedenplatz:









U3/Herrengasse


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

U1/U2/U4 Karlsplatz:









Must be some older U1 station...


















U6/Gumpendorfer Straße:









U4/Karlsplatz:


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

U4 arriving at (or departing from) Landstraße: 









U4/Hütteldorf:









U6/Handelskai:









U1 between Alte Donau and Kagran:


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Some more pics from the extension of U2:

U2/U4/Schottenring:









U2/U4/Schottenring:









U2/U4/Schottenring:









Praterstern:









Praterstern:









Praterstern:









Krieau:


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

The new T1 trainsets for U6. Bland, if you ask me. At least they're air-conditioned.


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Very nice pictures!

Tramway in front of the Parlament











Tramway again


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## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

The new tram would be fine if it had decent seats instead of those ugly plastic ones.


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

Rebasepoiss said:


> The new tram would be fine if it had decent seats instead of those ugly plastic ones.


Unfortunately all seats will be replaced with plastic ones, for hygienic reasons.


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

New tramway











New bus


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

Actually that's not one of the new trams. It's an A or a B ULF. The new ULF A1 trams, look a bit different.


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Thanks for the detailed definition.


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

Here's a picture of an A1. The differences are small, but you will notice the different lights, e.g. the blinkers are round and face inwards. Also the bumper is slightly different. The display has a narrower font than on the older A and B ULFs.

However the real difference is inside the tram:









It is fully air-conditioned, hence the ceiling is different. There are some more minor differences, but the most striking one is the plastic seats.


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## Anekdote (Apr 11, 2005)

I like the new ACed bus, finnaly no more sweating in the summer..


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

AC is even to weak sometimes in summer.


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## sntiagom (Oct 20, 2005)

Those pics remind me of my last (and up to now the only) visit to Vienna. I would have problems in trying to imagine a city with more personality and "charm" than the austrian capital. 

By the way, great system and very useful to get around the city.


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## Boogie (Jun 17, 2006)

Next year in Vienna will be UITP's congress "Public transport: making the right mobility choices". 

Check this out: http://www.uitp.org/vienna2009/


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## serdar samanlı1 (Feb 20, 2008)

stefanguti said:


> No, they don't.
> But older trams and older U6 kind of look similar, you're right!


How can you tell an old tram form an old U6?


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Old generation U6










New generation U6 (yet, there is a newer one)











Tramway


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

OK, since there seems to be a little confusion and there hasn't been much specific information about trains and operational stuff in this thread, I've compiled a little over view of all tram and subway trains.

*TRAMS*

The classic one...
*Type E**1*

_Manufactured:_ 
1966-1976

_Number of trainsets (as of Nov 2008):_
217

_Pax number:_
105 (40 seated/65 standing)

_Length:_
20.3m

_Weight:_
23.3 tons

_Built by:_
Bombardier-Rotax/Lohner (100 pcs), SGP (236)

_Lines:_
O, 1, 2, 5, 6, 9, 10, 18, 26, 30, 31, 33, 37, 42, 43, 44, 46, 49, 52, 58, 62

Pics:
























































_...these trains are either operated on their own or together with either..._

*Type c**3*

_Manufactured:_ 
1954-1962 (!!!)

_Number of trainsets (as of Nov 2008):_
82

_Pax number:_
75 (32 seated/43 standing)

_Length:_
14.7m

_Weight:_
11.6 tons

_Built by:_
Lohner (190 pcs)

_Lines:_
O, 1, 2, 5, 6, 18, 26, 30, 31, 46, 49, 52, 58, 62

Pics:






































_...or with the newer..._


*Type c**3*

Main difference: three double doors, interior updated to match E1.

_Manufactured:_ 
1974-1977 

_Number of trainsets (as of Nov 2008):_
73

_Pax number:_
74 (31 seated/43 standing)

_Length:_
14.7m

_Weight:_
11.5 tons

_Built by:_
Bombardier (73 pcs)

_Lines:_
1, 2, 5, 18, 26, 30, 31, 43, 46, 49, 52, 58, 62

Pics:


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

*TRAMS (2)*

*Type E**2*

Essentially they are updated and only marginally redesigned E1s. A little more box-shaped and using hideous yellow plastic instead of wood for the interior. Additionally they feature one more (foldable) doorstep.

_Manufactured:_ 
1978-1990

_Number of trainsets (as of Nov 2008):_
121

_Pax number:_
102 (44 seated/58 standing)

_Length:_
19.095m

_Weight:_
24.5 tons

_Built by:_
Bombardier-Rotax(24 pcs), SGP (98)

_Lines:_
D, 6, 18, 37, 38, 40, 41, 52, 58, 60, 62, 67, 71

Pics:








































































Like the E1s these trains can either be operated on their own or with their specific second car, the...


*Type c**5*

_Manufactured:_ 
1966-1976

_Number of trainsets (as of Nov 2008):_
117

_Pax number:_
71 (32 seated/39 standing)

_Length:_
13m

_Weight:_
11.94 tons

_Built by:_
Bombardier-Rotax (117)

_Lines:_
D, 6, 18, 38, 40, 41, 52, 58, 60, 62, 67, 71

Pics:


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

*TRAMS (3)*

In 1992 Vienna ordered the first generation of ULF (ultra low floor) trams which were a revolutionary step forward in the history of Vienna's public transport system. Two types were ordered from SGP/Siemens Austria, the shorter *A* and the longer *B*. 
These trams have the lowest floors worldwide, requiring you to step up only 19 cm above street level and were designed by Porsche.

*A*

_Manufactured:_ 
since 1997

_Number of trainsets (as of Nov 2008):_
51

_Pax number:_
136 (42 seated/94 standing)

_Length:_
24.2m

_Weight:_
30 tons

_Built by:_
Siemens/SGP (51)

_Lines:_
O, 1, 2, 37, 40, 42, 44, 46, 52, 58, 62

Pics:


















Note the cushioned seats.


















The cab is inaccessible to the public:



















...and the largely identical...


*B*

_Manufactured:_ 
since 1998

_Number of trainsets (as of Nov 2008):_
101

_Pax number:_
200 (66 seated/134 standing)

_Length:_
35.3m (longest in the fleet)

_Weight:_
43 tons

_Built by:_
Siemens/SGP (101)

_Lines:_
D, 5, 6, 26, 31, 43, 49, 60, 67, 71

Pics:


----------



## serdar samanlı1 (Feb 20, 2008)

I like the old trams. Those new ones suck


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## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

serdar samanlı;27811434 said:


> I like the old trams. Those new ones suck


Of course the old trams have a sentimental value, but to provide comfortable PT for everyone, new low-floor trams are definitely necessary.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

*TRAMS (4)*

In 2004, 150 additional ULF trains were ordered. Due to the (mixed) experiences, there have been many modifications including a slightly weaker engine, an updated interior with non-cushioned seats, different monitors and destination displays and headlights. Most importantly, they are all air-conditioned. At the moment, only A1s are operational, with B1s to follow in 2009.

*A**1*

_Manufactured:_ 
since 2007

_Number of trainsets (as of Nov 2008):_
36

_Pax number:_
136 (42 seated/94 standing)

_Length:_
24.2m 

_Weight:_
43 tons

_Built by:_
Siemens (36)

_Lines:_
2, 46, 52, 58, 62

Pics:


















Enhanced readability of displays:




































A/C:


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## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

Gosh, how I hate plastic seats. Of course they're better for hygienic reasons, but they just look so cheap and are uncomfortable to sit on.


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Great job Bahnsteig!

Thanks a lot.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

*METRO*

*U/U11/U2*

When Vienna's underground network was opened in 1976, the "U" trains were officially introduced, but actually they had been serving the original "Stadtbahn" network since 1972.

A typical "U/U11/U2" train consists of three double wagons.

There is hardly any visible difference between U, U11 and U2. The only differences are purely technical and concern braking technology and engines. All of them run on a third rail system.

_Operational since:_
1972 (U)
1987 (U11)
2000 (U2 - Refurbished U trains)

_Capacity:_
6 x 150 (49/91) = 900 

_Length of a single wagon:_
18.4m

_Weight of a single wagon:_
26.3 tons

_Lines:_
U: U1, U3, U4
U11: U1, U2, U3, U4
U2: U3

_Pics:_

U2/Prater - Messe









U2/Krieau









U4/Hütteldorf









Shack near Spittelau:









U4/Friedensbrücke:









U4/Margaretengürtel:









These first generation black plastic seats can hardly be found any more:









Currently the most common seats on this type. Blue fabric:









This one is slowly being introduced on all trains. It's much more comfortable than it looks:


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

*METRO*

*v/V*

The newest trainset for the biggest part of Vienna's network, i.e. all third rail lines (all but one). These trains no longer consist of 6 seperate wagons, so you can walk from one end to the other. Air condition is available here, as well.

_Operational since:_
2006

_Number in service:_
23

_Capacity:_
878 (260/618)

_Length:_
111.22m

_Weight:_
166 tons

_Lines:_
U1, U2, U3, U4

Pics:
U2/Stadion









U1/Aderklaaer Straße









U4/Spittelau:









The front of a V train on its way to assembly (?)









U to the left, V to the right:


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

On to the 3 different types of trains that run on Vienna's most unusual line, U6. Since part of it uses a historical viaduct from the late 1800s, it was not possible to construct a third rail, which meant they had to use different trainsets.
The oldest trainset on U6 was already in use long before anyone even thought of a metro in Vienna:

*E6/c6*
...were already used on Vienna's stadtbahn lines a predecessor of an actual underground network that largely used tracks from the modernization era in the late 1800s and had a lot in common with Vienna's E2/c5 trams. The main (visible) difference was that the Stadtbahn/metro trains had doors on both sides so as to allow for platforms on both sides.

_Operational since:_
1979

_Number in use (Nov 2008):_
36 sets (E6/c6)

_Capacity:_
624 (192/432)

_Length:_
19.7m

_Weight_
E6: 28.5 tons
c6: 19.8 tons

_Lines:_
U6

These days, these trainsets always operate in combination with type T.
(Configuration: E6-c6-T-c6-E6)

Pics:
C6.
Note the T wagon in the middle of the train:


















e6:









Very tram-like interior:


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Starting in 1995, new low-floor trains were introduced for U6.

*T*

An entirely new design, the new trains should bring U6 on par with the other lines of the network. This was urgently needed, as U6 is definitely one of the most heavily used lines.

_Operational since:_
1995

_Number in use:_
78

_Capacity:_
194 (58/136) per wagon

_Length of a single wagon:_
27.3m

_Weight of a single wagon:_
34 tons

_Lines:_
U6

These trains can either be used together with C6/e6 (as explained above) or as a triple set.

Pics:


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

*T1*

In mid-2008, the newest type of the whole system was introduced for U6 to replace the remaining E6/c6 trains who are definitely dated.
It resembles the T trains a lot and apart from the new colour scheme and the new LED displays, the most striking features are a different interior and an air conditioning system.

_Operational since:_
2008

_Number in use:_
34

_Capacity:_
193 (57/136) per wagon

_Length of a single wagon:_
26.8m

_Weight of a single wagon:_
37.6 tons

_Lines:_
U6

Pics:






















































Plastic seats are the future?


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

All pics are from this site. A great and comprehensive source for all types of information. (Sorry - German only)

http://www.fpdwl.at/


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## Ali18 (Aug 12, 2008)

Bahnsteig4 said:


> ...Plastic seats are the future?


I agree with Rebasepoiss:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=27813412#post27813412

BTW: :applause:


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

:applause:


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

OK - that makes two things for me to be looking for.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Still looking. In the meantime, enjoy this video I found:





Select high quality here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwDVoiV1Qy8
Follow tram line "D" all the way through the city from its southern terminus (Südbahnhof) to Nussdorf in the far north in just 10 minutes.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

I can't find any self-taken pics of the new S-Bahn trains' interiors now, but I found some on the web:


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

And more shared bus/tram stops and tracks. All taken from Fanpage der Wiener Linien.





































These beautiful old busses have been out of service for nearly two years now. hno:









From Stadtverkehr Austria:


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## Falubaz (Nov 20, 2004)

Super! Danke!
That's great!


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## city_thing (May 25, 2006)

Vienna is so lucky to have such a great system.

The German speaking world does public transport so well.


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## DJZG (Aug 2, 2007)

i found those old buses rather uncomfortable cause of wooden seats... when i drove with 15A towards Simmering i found that the hard way :lol:
i didn't knew they put them out of service... everyone of them?


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

I loved the old busses with wooden seats!


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## Anekdote (Apr 11, 2005)

Every single are out of service. I didn't like them anyway, they were uncomfortable, loud and the fumes smell pretty bad as well.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

> they were uncomfortable, loud and the fumes smell pretty bad as well.


In other words: SEXY AS HELL!


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## Anekdote (Apr 11, 2005)

I bet the seats of the new bus series will be replaced by plastic seats like the ULF trams. :lol:


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

You betcha.


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## DJZG (Aug 2, 2007)

but plastic seats are bendable when you sit on them that makes them cosy and sexy


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

I'm allright with'em.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

I am a sucker for the wooden type of seats they have in Munich's new subway trains. That would be an excellent solution - sharp looking, easy to clean and hygienically sensible.
Compare:

Munich...









...and Vienna...









I know which design I prefer. (I'm not talking about the seating layout, btw.)


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

A loooong articulated bus:


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## Anekdote (Apr 11, 2005)

Judged by pictures what I've seen, are Munich's subway trains the best designed imo.


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## urbanfan89 (May 30, 2007)

Wow. So Ikea has now entered the railway car designing business. What's the name? Gloonborg?


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

:lol:


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## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

Bahnsteig4 said:


> I am a sucker for the wooden type of seats they have in Munich's new subway trains. That would be an excellent solution - sharp looking, easy to clean and hygienically sensible.
> 
> I know which design I prefer. (I'm not talking about the seating layout, btw.)


Plastic seats can also look good(or better than those Wien ones) Helsinki metro:


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Maybe you should try this website:

http://www.oebb.at/

You can then search for a railway connection to Vienna on your specific time of arrive.


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## Aan (Nov 5, 2007)

Redsplodge said:


> Not sure if this question belongs in this section, if it doesn't please accept my apologies.
> I will be arriving into Bratislava at around 22.30-22.45 on a friday night, what is the easiest and quickest way to get into the Hutteldorf area. Have tried the skyeurope website for connections into Vienna and its says that there are none at that time of night, was hoping that one of the forumers could possibly help me out.


From Bratislava Main Station (Hlavna stanica) there is train to Vienna on friday at 23:00, 23:50, 00:50, train journey takes about 1 hour, so it's no problem to get train from BA to WIE at these hours (at day it's even better, train is going every 30 minutes, Bratislava is just suburbs of Vienna )

there is very good connection from Bratislava airport (bus stop Letisko = Airport) to Bratislava Main station (Hlavna stanica) - direct bus line nr 61 - connections at 22:45, 23:05, 23:25 ... so no problem at all

if you arrive at 22:45 you will buy ticket for public transport (60min ticket = 70 eurocents in newspaper booths or ticket machines, don't forget to sign your ticket in bus, otherwise you will get 50€ fine from A-holes loving this tourist line, there is also english warning on back side of public transport ticket), trip from airport to main (train) station takes only 20 minutes and then you can buy ticket for train (or you can buy it in train if you are lazy, it's surcharge only about 1.5€ if buying in train from conductor), so you will take bus line 61 at 23:05 to Main station (Hlavna stanica), it's final stop, you will arive at 23:25 to MS and you have lot of time to buy ticket for train departing at 23:50 from Main station to Wien Sudbanhof Ost, you will be there at 01:03 AM (if I remember correctly Vienna trains are going from plattform 2, but check on table inside BA Main station), ticket for train should cost about 7€ if they haven't raised prices too much (you can't find this price on web, only if you write e-mail to slovakrail.sk they will answer you e-mail in couple of hours with exact price from Bratislava Hlavna Stanica to Wien Sudbanhof Ost, they are pretty quick (at least with slovak e-mails))

if you have any other questions don't be affraid to ask in Slovakia forum - Mimo temu (Off topic) thread

btw. sleeping in Bratislava, is MUCH cheaper than in Vienna (if you don't have problem with hostels and aren't affraid of cannibals ), and you can go to Vienna at any time at morning, as I said there are trains every 30 minutes (if you count with Petrzalka train station, otherwise every 60 minutes from Main station), maybe on weekend it's little worse

EDIT: You can find train/bus connections from Slovakia here www.cp.sk there is also english version, From=Bratislava (Hlavna Stanica), to=Wien (Sudbahnhof Ost) you can also look there for Bratislava public transport connections from aiport, you must just change category to Bratislava otherwise there is good site about Bratislava public transport www.imhd.sk they should have also english version, then Planovac cesty = Route planner and you need to enter there From=Letisko (Airport), To=Hlavna stanica (Main station) for public (bus) transport connections


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Alright, you beat me to it.


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Respect Aan, you know what you are talking about! 

Have you often been in Vienna?


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## Aan (Nov 5, 2007)

no, only few times, last time in 2007 when I was on Iranian (it's close enough by walk to WSbO so no need to use public transport) and Pakistanian embassy/consulate so I used only U-bahn and trams, it was that day with bank robbery (nothing common with me) in Vienna so everywhere were police cars and sirens  They are selling round trip train join tickets from BA-WIE-BA with 24hr public transport ticket for OK price, I think it's same in reverse way WIE-BA-WIE, my roundtrip ticket incl. public transport cost something about 10-12 euros then


----------



## Redsplodge (Jan 23, 2009)

Thanks for all the info guys,:cheers:, it is always better to ask real people than to trust an airline website. As i say, i wont be making the trip until March so i have plenty of time to sort out the travel arrangements now.
Thanks for the advice about sleeping over as well, but i will be staying with family in Vienna, so hopefully they dont charge me.:lol:


----------



## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Do not hesitate if you have further questions...

In the meantime: Tramway


----------



## Tramwayman (Jan 22, 2009)

What is the highest speed for ULF trams???
Has any of the drivers tried to give highest speed to this trams?

Has anyone tested it?

I know that in ULF technical data is written 70 km/h maximum but I'm pretty sure that it can more.

cause in tram's technical data's is always written the maximum speed on which the fabric gives garanties that the tram will work properly but in fact if you accelerate it can reach more.

now waiting for answer?

Can ULF's reahc more than 70 km/h?


----------



## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Hm, tough question.

I can't answer right now, I have to check it out - maybe I can find further informations on the ULFs speed somewhere on the net...


----------



## Tramwayman (Jan 22, 2009)

in internet you wil find that it's maximum speed is 70 km/h cause this is vritten in UOF's technical data 

it's always like this but in reality trams can accelerate more.

for example in TMK 2200 (Crotram) tram's technical data is written maximum 70 km/h. but in reality in Zagreb this trams have reached speed 87 km/h.

now you understand
I don;t think that in Vienna Ulf's going so fast they run very slow as I;ve seen from videos.


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Maybe they can reach 75 km/h?


----------



## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)




----------



## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

:applause:


----------



## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)




----------



## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)




----------



## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)




----------



## qrde (Jan 13, 2008)




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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

^^All taken by yourself?


----------



## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Another light rail


----------



## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Schnellbahn











U6 in front of the Millennium Tower


----------



## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

S- and U-Bahn:


----------



## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

thx


----------



## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Subway Entrance






























(old type)


----------



## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)




----------



## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Heavy Rail (still up to date)


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## paF4uko (Jul 12, 2008)

CAT in railway modelling:









:cheers:


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

thx


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## Anekdote (Apr 11, 2005)

Vienna's first flying U-Bahn. Notice the graffiti on display "U2 Schrotpl." (U2 Junkyard) :lol:


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## Falubaz (Nov 20, 2004)

What happened to this train?


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## Anekdote (Apr 11, 2005)

The train rammed with high speed the buffer stop. The driving trailer was totalled, one wagon was lightly damaged and the other 4 are undamaged.


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Nice picture!


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

Anekdote said:


> The train rammed with high speed the buffer stop. The driving trailer was totalled, one wagon was lightly damaged and the other 4 are undamaged.


The official story is that the driver fell asleep while he was parking the train. However it looks like they try to make the driver the scapegoat and in fact the fancy LZB automated traincontrol fucked up.


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Who knows..?!


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

rheintram said:


> The official story is that the driver fell asleep while he was parking the train. However it looks like they try to make the driver the scapegoat and in fact the fancy LZB automated traincontrol fucked up.


I read somewhere it happened outside of LZB control, but I honestly know shit about running a subway


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)




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## Wallaroo (Aug 3, 2007)

Where is the U5 subway on the network?


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## STIB (Dec 9, 2008)

Wallaroo said:


> Where is the U5 subway on the network?


There is no subway line U5 in Vienna - only in some very distant planning...


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## Anekdote (Apr 11, 2005)

There is an U5 line in the plans many years ago.. but they haven't realised the plan yet. So there will be maybe no U5 in the near future.

That might be the networkplan with U5 line included.


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Pleasu reup the plan ^^

Lightrail Line D on the Ring.


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## snupix (Apr 27, 2005)

stefanguti said:


> Pleasu reup the plan ^^
> 
> Lightrail Line D on the Ring.


Why are you calling the tram _light rail_? It sounds so funny :lol:

AFAIK, only Americans use this word frequently, and most often for an ordinary tram... I guess it sounds more "advanced" if they call it that way...


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Indeed. Streetcar line would be more apropriate. But then I would just use Strassenbahnlinie and if my english keyboard would have a "sharp s" button I would use it here to confuse even the last one 

When I think about it "D-Bim" would be an even nicer term


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

Streetcar is American English for a classic tramway. The correct german translation for lightrail is Stadtbahn. In Vienna the tramway resembles partly a modern lightrail and partly a classic tramway.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

rheintram said:


> Streetcar is American English for a classic tramway. The correct german translation for lightrail is Stadtbahn. In Vienna the tramway resembles partly a modern lightrail and partly a classic tramway.


Well, they were looking for the translation for our good old Bim not for the Stadtbahn, but your are of course completely right.


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## Bertorelli (Jul 29, 2008)

Bahnsteig4 said:


> Now what to do next? All 30+ tram lines???
> 
> I've already got big (and I mean BIG) plans for a next major Vienna photography project. It won't be focussing on PT, but if you like this city, STAY TUNED!!! (and if you don't, even more so...)


I think You may recount the BadnerBahn's stations next  This could be nice...


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Ok, sorry guys, then Tramway it is...


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

On other way of transportation


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Tramway 49 on Siebensterngasse, 7th district


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)




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## djwizard84 (Nov 21, 2007)

Viena Public Transportation is the best system I ever used... great job!!!
I like this city


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

^^It is pretty complete, you are right.
Allthough I would like to have some more subways, because they are faster than overground lightrail tramways...


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)




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## erj-boy (Oct 28, 2008)

very nice network! we used U4 a lot to reach our hostel when we were in Vienna. Really liked it!


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## Ali18 (Aug 12, 2008)

^^
^^ I can confirm that. Vienna public transport is one of the best in Europe. 

BTW stefanguti´s shots are amazing too.


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## dwdwone (May 7, 2004)

stefanguti said:


>


Which line is this pictured here?


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## hhouse (Sep 29, 2009)

dwdwone said:


> Which line is this pictured here?


It's the station "Stadion" of the line U2.


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## batman08 (Sep 28, 2008)

My travel in Wien U-Bahn :


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Thx for the pictures, mate!


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)




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## Alargule (Feb 21, 2005)

Anekdote said:


> There is an U5 line in the plans many years ago.. but they haven't realised the plan yet. So there will be maybe no U5 in the near future.
> 
> That might be the networkplan with U5 line included.


Got a bigger picture? I see some lines I can't bring home.


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## STIB (Dec 9, 2008)

stefanguti said:


>


This picture (with trams on *line J*) is a bit outdated, isn't it?


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

del


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Recent shot of a subway entrance:


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

^^ Horrible, looks like a war zone. They should adopt some emergency painting scheme to cover all that trash in white.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

^^ This picture is highly misleading. No, not regarding the extend of graffiti, but regarding its quality. On both sides right next to the entrance you have halfway decent or even better graffiti. 

There is no graffiti inside the station. Why? Outside along the Danube canal it is legal to spray, inside it is not. And it is great that Vienna legalized spraying along the canal. More about it here:http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1023587&page=2


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

Nothing wrong with high quality graffiti (some of the examples in your thread were absolutely incredible), however, that metro entrance looks pretty awful in my opinion. Sorry.


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Thanks for clearing that up, Slartibartfas.
Indeed, this entrance is not the most beautiful in the viennese subway system.
BUT: it is an artistic exception, because - as Slartibartfas mentioned - the entrance is directly on the Danube canal, where street art and graffiti are legalized.

In the usually very clean and straight subway system of Vienna, i find this little "dirty" exception quite inspiring and funny 

Along the canal:


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Current tramway map


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

I've seen that entrance many times but I can't say I found it very disturbing at any time. The impression if you see the wider surrounding and not merely the very entrance is quite a different one. 

Here are two pictures (slightly older) with a bit of a wider scope. It still does not give a proper idea of the area but at least a better one. 

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/66583515.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dugspr/2878621559/

PS: If every station would look like this I might not like it either. But it is a pleasure to see how many talented sprayer use the Donaukanal as a legal venue. Tourists might be shocked as it does not fit into the proncieved picture of Vienna. But it fits very well to the young summer party scene all along the canal with lots of urban " summer beaches".


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

^^ Party scenes that require legalized criminal activities are nothing short of organized crime. Be it organized crime of drug trafficking, theft or vandalism.

Even a worn-out grey paint would be better than that crap. 

But that is just my opinion. I'm essentially against any trash classified as "urban jungle vibe" in my personal crusade for neatness, sterilization and neutral aspects of public spaces - which include urban transportation.

As subways are, theoretically, open to all citizens of a city, their installations should be as bland, merely functional and deprived of any niche art as possible.


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## WanKenobi (Nov 9, 2003)

stefanguti said:


>


nice pics, I love those trams


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

They are circulating pretty much anywhere in the city


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ Party scenes that require legalized criminal activities are nothing short of organized crime. Be it organized crime of drug trafficking, theft or vandalism.


The party scene at the Donaukanal does not depend on graffitis but they fit well into the whole thing. 

I am not a fan of ugly tagging but I respect artistic graffiti and the Donaukanal is full with the latter. This is not illegal at all. These are public walls that the municipal government dedicated to urban arts like graffitis. 

Just because you dislike urban arts obviously, does not mean others do as well or that they are necessarily crap. To the contrary. I just saw an exhibition about a year ago in Germany where they brought Graffitis into museum and they were more impressive than a large share of the other modern art you usually find in modern galleries. 





> But that is just my opinion. I'm essentially against any trash classified as "urban jungle vibe" in my personal crusade for neatness, sterilization and neutral aspects of public spaces - which include urban transportation.


You want to turn cities into dead, hostile places optimized for moving through and getting away but not for anyone to stay. No thank you. Move to Brazil and leave us alone. 



> As subways are, theoretically, open to all citizens of a city, their installations should be as bland, merely functional and deprived of any niche art as possible.


Art enriches subway stations and thats why it is great that art, can be found in many stations. No, I don't like graffiti inside of stations but you can barely find any of that here anyway.


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## Stanislav. (Mar 23, 2010)

WanKenobi said:


> nice pics, I love those trams


Nice trams.
The tram lines are set on low traffic streets, aren't they? Do cars interfere the tram traffic?


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Trams are set both on low traffic and on higher traffic streets. In some cases, cars are interfering a lot and make the trams go slower. This certainly is a big disadvantage compared to the subway.


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## Stanislav. (Mar 23, 2010)

stefanguti said:


> Trams are set both on low traffic and on higher traffic streets. In some cases, cars are interfering a lot and make the trams go slower. This certainly is a big disadvantage compared to the subway.


How do the passengers react on this? What do the drivers think about trams?


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Well, I can only speak for myself.
My opinion is, that riding the tram at non-peak-time is quite nice, because it is pretty fast (almost comparable to the subway) and you can reach alsmost any point in the city (the tram network is very dense).
On the other hand, at rush-hour in the morning or the evening, the tram is rather inefficient and moving slowly. It can be very annoying and very often, I would wish to ride the subway because it would be much faster.

Since the tram network has a very long history in Vienna, the drivers are all used to sharing the roads with the trams. But: trams enjoy priority in traffic at any time, which is why they are very respected and of course accepted in the daily traffic.


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## Stanislav. (Mar 23, 2010)

stefanguti said:


> On the other hand, at rush-hour in the morning or the evening, the tram is rather inefficient and moving slowly. It can be very annoying and very often, I would wish to ride the subway because it would be much faster.


Traffic jams? What do you think, do many drivers use trams and other public transport for daily trips?



> Since the tram network has a very long history in Vienna, the drivers are all used to sharing the roads with the trams. But: trams enjoy priority in traffic at any time, which is why they are very respected and of course accepted in the daily traffic.


Have tram lines ever been dismantled to widen street for automobiles?


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## Attus (Jul 9, 2010)

^^ Vienna has one of the best modal splits of Europe, approx. 38% of all transport uses public transport, 36% uses cars, the rest travel by foot or bycicle.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Stanislav. said:


> Have tram lines ever been dismantled to widen street for automobiles?


Yes, there are several examples for that. But those that I know included the concurrent construction of a subway line below, replacing the tram and in some cases space for car traffic was increased. 

Another example is however Mariahilferstraße where also a tram line was dismantled after the construction of the U3 subway line below that street. The street was not widened for cars however but instead the sidewalks by two road lane equivalents.

Btw, an interesting aspect regarding having such a tight tram network is that cyclists are faced with not only crossing lots of tracks but on many roads they have to drive along them as well. You have to be careful when doing so.


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

Attus said:


> ^^ Vienna has one of the best modal splits of Europe, approx. 38% of all transport uses public transport, 36% uses cars, the rest travel by foot or bycicle.


Are these statistics based on internationally standardized passenger-km (or passenger-mile)?

Even in Dutch cities with very high bike usage, the bike + pedestrian + other non-motorized share never surpasses 15%. So for Wien to have 26% of pedestrian + bike would be quite a shocker.


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## KingNick (Sep 23, 2010)

I suppose they base their statistics on the international standards, yes.

Developement from 1993 to 2011:










Red = Public Transportation
Yellow = Bike
Green = Foot
Blue = Car


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

^^ If my basic German knowledge is right, they are measuring the % as a proportion of trips, and not passenger-km, which makes for flawed conclusions. 

After all, moving 1 passenger 30km or 30 passengers 1km require comparable effort at the unit level (regardless of modal used), but if you had 1 passenger taking a 30km car trip and 30 walking 1 km you'd have, for instance, "only" 3% car share whereas the correct percentage of _total distance mobility_ of the car in this simple example is half of total 60 passenger-km.


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## KingNick (Sep 23, 2010)

Mode share graphics are always based on the number of journeys by main
mode of transport. I have no knowledge of a valid one based on passenger-km.


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ If my basic German knowledge is right, they are measuring the % as a proportion of trips, and not passenger-km, which makes for flawed conclusions.
> 
> After all, moving 1 passenger 30km or 30 passengers 1km require comparable effort at the unit level (regardless of modal used), but if you had 1 passenger taking a 30km car trip and 30 walking 1 km you'd have, for instance, "only" 3% car share whereas the correct percentage of _total distance mobility_ of the car in this simple example is half of total 60 passenger-km.


I understand your point. To be honest with you, I have never heard of any statistics based on km for Vienna. It would be interesting, though.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ If my basic German knowledge is right, they are measuring the % as a proportion of trips, and not passenger-km, which makes for flawed conclusions.
> 
> After all, moving 1 passenger 30km or 30 passengers 1km require comparable effort at the unit level (regardless of modal used), but if you had 1 passenger taking a 30km car trip and 30 walking 1 km you'd have, for instance, "only" 3% car share whereas the correct percentage of _total distance mobility_ of the car in this simple example is half of total 60 passenger-km.


Person kilometer based numbers would be great but I could not find any either. I though I had see some once however but maybe I remember wrongly. 

Relying on some educated guess however, the share between public transport and car should be comparable between journey based and person kilometer based one. I don't think that there are vast differences in average distances with both modes of transportation. 

Especially pedestrian shares might be severely lower however.


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## Floster (Apr 6, 2012)

Line 41 in Währing (18th district of Vienna):











The route for the new line 25 (in service from december 2012) in the 22nd district is currently under construction:


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

Slartibartfas said:


> Person kilometer based numbers would be great but I could not find any either. I though I had see some once however but maybe I remember wrongly.
> 
> Relying on some educated guess however, the share between public transport and car should be comparable between journey based and person kilometer based one. I don't think that there are vast differences in average distances with both modes of transportation.
> 
> Especially pedestrian shares might be severely lower however.


Actually, I can't see how person kilometre figures are actually helpful. What can they tell you? That people a long way out of the city have to drive as there are less transport options and as such they have to also travel further? Surely the split for every trip taken is more accurate otherwise the weighting will heavily lean towards car drivers who are more likely to be suburbanites and therefore have longer commutes.


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## vog (May 31, 2011)

Does anyone know how deep is the deepest u-bahn station in Vienna?


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## Luki_SL (Apr 11, 2005)

^^The deepest u`bahn station is Karlsplatz. It`s 24m below ground


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## WanKenobi (Nov 9, 2003)

Slartibartfas said:


> Yes, there are several examples for that. But those that I know included the concurrent construction of a subway line below, replacing the tram and in some cases space for car traffic was increased.


IMHO very interesting is the traffic solution on Vienna Ring, where the cars can drive around the city center only in one direction, but trams are riding in both direction on the whole Ring (5,2 km)


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## Ruston (Aug 8, 2011)

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ If my basic German knowledge is right, they are measuring the % as a proportion of trips, and not passenger-km, which makes for flawed conclusions.
> .


Doesn't matter for this graph, that have the purpose of evidencing the difference in modal split between 1993 and 2011 .


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

*VIENNA: S-Bahn, U-Bahn, Lokalbahn network plan *

The brand new network plan as of December 2013 with the partial opening of the new main station ("Hauptbahnhof" in German). This is the most complete map of the Viennese high priority rail network including all S-Bahn and U-Bahn lines as well as the light rail like Lokalbahn from Karlsplatz to Baden in Vienna proper (central zone in white) and the larger metropolitan area.


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## Falubaz (Nov 20, 2004)

^^ Finaly the line naming has some sense, without "one-direction-numbering-system"


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

^^ Yes indeed. Finally it makes sense. Lines 1, 2 and 3 are those that are running all along the Stammstrecke from Floridsdorf to Meidling. Easy to understand and to remember.

What that map fails to tell you is however which lines run frequently (like at least every 15 min) For the S-Bahn that is basically, the S45 (10 - 15 min headway) and the Stammstrecke where you don't have one single line but you'd have one or the other line every few min.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Floster said:


> The route for the new line 25 (in service from december 2012) in the 22nd district is currently under construction:


Line 25 is being opened on 22th December. :banana:

Below you can see the new stop "Tokiostraße"









http://www.bildstrecke.at/Pictures/2012/11/00006/11/1631595318-2.jpg


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## Samluke (Mar 9, 2009)

Is that _grass_ between the tracks that I can see? Vienna could do with more of that on its tramlines.


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

^^I think it is!


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

Underground in Vienna. by Crusade., on Flickr


Underground in Vienna. by Crusade., on Flickr


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

Thanks for sharing!


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## mcarling (Nov 1, 2008)

I understand that plans to extend the U2 line southeast to Schwarzenbergplatz, Rennweg, St Marx, and Gudrunstr. have been suspended. I'm less clear on the reasons (a lack of consensus over where the U2 should run after Rennweg, among other reasons?) because I have difficulty reading German.

It seems to me that the need for a U2 extension from Karlsplatz to Schwarzenbergplatz and Rennweg (to interchange with the S-bahn trunk line) is both obvious and urgent. Perhaps that part could still be constructed before 2020 and a decision about a further extension could be postponed until plans for the U5 line come to fruition?


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## KingNick (Sep 23, 2010)

The thing is, from a network perspective it doesn't make much sense building a U2 extension down there, only as a part of the yet to be built U5. This is due to the fact that U1 and U2 are already crossing each other twice and the southern end would again serve the same area. So if this extension should be built one day (pretty certain, imo) it's going to look like this:


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## mcarling (Nov 1, 2008)

KingNick said:


> from a network perspective it doesn't make much sense building a U2 extension down there [to Rennweg S-bahn station].


I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point. In my opinion the connection from the U2 inner city ring to the S-bahn trunk line is both important and urgent -- from a network perspective. The U1 between Karlsplatz and Haupbahnhof is already crowded and will only get much worse when the Haupbahnhof will be completed.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

Source : http://www.fotop.net/marcokate


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## stefanguti (Oct 27, 2007)

What a beautiful shot!


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## Isek (Feb 13, 2005)

>


I guess that Hauptbahnhof will cause problems if only connected by U1. Why they do not plan that U2 south meets U6 at Hauptbahnhof.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Isek said:


> I guess that Hauptbahnhof will cause problems if only connected by U1. Why they do not plan that U2 south meets U6 at Hauptbahnhof.


There is no U6 at Hauptbahnhof.

That U-Bahn plan does not show the S-Bahn. The S-Bahn is however integral part of the Viennese transit system. Especially the Stammstrecke, the main corridor which goes from Floridsdorf to Meidling in U-Bahn like frequencies. The Hbf is in the middle of that corridor and you can reach the U6 on both ends. 

This totally unofficial map adds the Stammstrecke and the Vorortelinie (S45) to the subway network. Additional S-Bahn lines and heavy rail are shown by grey lines. The Stammstrecke has trains coming every few minutes and the S45 every 10 min during most of the day (and 15 min at night). 



>


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=547748&page=53


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

The last part of the U2 north extension (Aspernstraße - Seestadt) is panned to open towards the end of this year and here you have the new transit concept of the whole area:



Dungeon said:


> Hi das neue Verkehrskonzept rund um die Seetstadt:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Visualization of the entire tram line 26 extension (Kagraner Platz - Hausfeldstraße)
-> see also map in previous post


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## Cajuzie (Apr 18, 2013)

Do you guys know whether they are actually going to remove the older U bahn trains for the U11/U abd so on ??


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

According to Fpdwl.at they are replacing Type U trains gradually with new Type v/V trains. This will probably take a long time but I don't know if their is any official time frame for complete replacement.


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## Cajuzie (Apr 18, 2013)

That would be horrible, i would hate that, first they change franz kaida's voice now they might take away the Type U trains


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## dan72 (Apr 26, 2012)

Any idea of the total cost of the light rail extension and per km?


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## KingNick (Sep 23, 2010)

Cajuzie said:


> That would be horrible, i would hate that, first they change franz kaida's voice now they might take away the Type U trains


Type U1/2 trains will still be around for a long time.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

dan72 said:


> Any idea of the total cost of the light rail extension and per km?


Its not light rail but strictly taken tram lines, even though partly with own right of way and for a short part of the 26er extension even on elevated tracks. 

*U/C*

*26er extension:*
4.5 km new
~50 Mio € (11 Mio € / km)

*25er transformation:*
1 km new
~10 Mio € (10 Mio € / km)
*
D extension part 1:*
0.7 km
~10 Mio € (14 Mio € / km)

*
Planned projects 
*

*D extension part 2:*
1.2 km
~15 Mio € (12,5 Mio € / km)

*Wienerbergtangente:*
4.5 km 
90-130 Mio € (20-29 Mio € / km)

*O extension:*
1.7 km new
25-45 Mio € (15-26 Mio € / km)

*18 extension:*
2 km
30-50 Mio € (15-25 Mio € / km)









http://www.wien.gv.at/verkehr-stadtentwicklung/images/bim-map.jpg

The per km numbers are a bit misleading as switches and track crossings are especially expensive and the short extensions have a similar amount of them as the larger extensions. I honestly don't know what would make the Wienerbergtangente so expensive though. Maybe they would have to alter the street layout extensively?


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## dan72 (Apr 26, 2012)

Thanks


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## Paul Easton (Jun 15, 2009)

Cajuzie said:


> That would be horrible, i would hate that, first they change franz kaida's voice...(


I didn't know this. I worked in Vienna for a while and have often visited since and, to me, Franz Kaida was "the voice of Vienna". I never felt I'd arrived until I heard his voice on a tram or U-Bahn.

http://austriantimes.at/news/Business/2012-12-04/45831/New_voice_for_Vienna_Underground

_From Sunday travellers on the Vienna city underground will find a new public address voice in use.

Instead of a man a woman has been chosen and from this weekend the voice of actress Angela Schneider will be heard advising passengers about their travel status.

In addition one of the messages - Zug fährt ab - warning that the train is about to leave will no longer be heard.

U-Bahn boss Eduard Winter said the new concept for the messages was to make sure people were quickly and efficiently informed of what was happening at any time.

Angela Schneider replaces the former voice provided by Franz Kaida.

The various tones warning of the announcement are also being monitored. Messages in English will be pre-faced with a gong tone for example which is one octave higher than the regular. _

See also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqXlHTdSdwI and (auf Deutsch) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU8znFD8o-Y


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

^^

Franz Kaida's retired. That's a pity but was unavoidable after so many decades. The sad thing is that the Wiener Linien opted for a much more reductionist and generic style. The Viennese accent is almost gone with the new speaker Schneider. 

Kaida's voice can be still heard in buses and trams however, for a bit longer, as there is a longer transition phase.

PS: Funny imaginary station with transfer to all existing lines of Vienna, by Kaida: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN5IUWqi5ks


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## hemarookworst (Sep 9, 2009)

New buses for Vienna:










Source: Wiener Linien


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## Cajuzie (Apr 18, 2013)

You can now vote on the wiener linien site


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## dan72 (Apr 26, 2012)

Will the new west bahnhof have a grand entry building or is it just platforms?


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## XAN_ (Jan 13, 2011)

tunnel owl said:


> Same was done with Krivoi Rogs fast-tram when they operated Tatra trams, don´t know actual state.


Both Krivoy Rog and Volgograd still use underground crossovers. Krivoy Rog still uses Tatras nearly exclusively. Volgograd now use a fare number of double-sided LVS, but for second underground section, which has no grade-separated crossovers.


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## KingNick (Sep 23, 2010)

dan72 said:


> Why does the tram cross over to run on the otherside when it goes on the elevated section?
> Will they put grass between the tracks where it only has the yellow soil at the moment?


1) Viennese trams can only be exited on the right hand side of the car, therefore two platforms would have to be built, if it wasn't for the cross over. This way construction is way cheaper, since you don't need everything (elevator, escalators, stairs etc) twice.

2) The earthy soil is most likely going to like this next spring:


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## Paul Easton (Jun 15, 2009)

Slartibartfas said:


> Franz Kaida's retired. That's a pity but was unavoidable after so many decades. The sad thing is that the Wiener Linien opted for a much more reductionist and generic style. The Viennese accent is almost gone with the new speaker Schneider.
> 
> Kaida's voice can be still heard in buses and trams however, for a bit longer, as there is a longer transition phase.


I think Kaida's voice has now been phased-out completely. I was in Vienna over New Year and heard only Angela Schneider's voice whenever using public transport - U-Bahn, tram or bus.

It was strange not hearing Franz Kaida - as I said before he was, to me, the "voice of Vienna".


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## kapitancho (Jul 1, 2013)

It is not completely gone. Get in 47A for example and you will hear it.


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## KingNick (Sep 23, 2010)

I personally don't care who the voice is, both have their pros and cons (tradition in Kaida's case and clearer pronounciation in Schneider's), the only thing that really bothers me is the pathetic English of both. Is the City Airport Twain somewhat related to Mark Twain? Have someone else say it, if you can't. This is embarrassing for an international city.


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## pumpikatze (Sep 19, 2009)

Though you have to admit that Schneiders English sounds way better than Kaidas...!
The only thing that really sounds weird now is "Please leafe(!) the train" hno:


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## KingNick (Sep 23, 2010)

She can't pronounce train!


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## pumpikatze (Sep 19, 2009)

I will pay attention next time...well, that really would be embarrassing...


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## BPPublicFan (Jan 21, 2014)

*Some pics by me (from November 2013)*

Tram juction at the Westbahnhof:









Ring Tram:









Tram on line 18 at Wien Hauptbahnhof stop:








...and as it leaves the station


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## Sunfuns (Mar 26, 2012)

Some of that rolling stock look ancient.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

^^ just the regular 30-40 years old and still working perfectly fine. Their only short coming is that they are not low floor. That is why they are being phased out already for the last 20 years. Probably, in another 10 years or so they will have vanished, except for heritage rides from the tram museum.


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## kapitancho (Jul 1, 2013)

They may look old but they are charming and perfectly working. Fortunately, they are still found often enough on the streets.


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## Sunfuns (Mar 26, 2012)

Slartibartfas said:


> ^^ just the regular 30-40 years old and still working perfectly fine. Their only short coming is that they are not low floor. That is why they are being phased out already for the last 20 years. Probably, in another 10 years or so they will have vanished, except for heritage rides from the tram museum.


Probably also less energy efficient than the current generation of rolling stock.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Sunfuns said:


> Probably also less energy efficient than the current generation of rolling stock.


Would be interesting to check. Why do you think so? Electric engines have little room for further efficiency improvements because they have been extremely efficient for a long time. 

Judging by the power of the electric engines energy consumption of old and new models seem to be fairly similar. Per passenger the old units even seem to have slightly less engine power. Of course that is not a proof for actual consumption but its a hint.

And of course, if we are calculating energy costs you have to consider the life cycle as well. If you discard units already after 20 years you need a whole lot more energy for new units than if you discard them after 40 years (even if you include maintenance effort)


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## XAN_ (Jan 13, 2011)

Slartibartfas said:


> Would be interesting to check. Why do you think so? Electric engines have little room for further efficiency improvements because they have been extremely efficient for a long time.
> 
> Judging by the power of the electric engines energy consumption of old and new models seem to be fairly similar. Per passenger the old units even seem to have slightly less engine power. Of course that is not a proof for actual consumption but its a hint.
> 
> And of course, if we are calculating energy costs you have to consider the life cycle as well. If you discard units already after 20 years you need a whole lot more energy for new units than if you discard them after 40 years (even if you include maintenance effort)


That's a bit more complicated.
It's true, that electric engine as per se is very efficient, and doesn't have much room for improvement. But what is really progressed for last 40 years - it's control systems.
40 years ago there was no real alternative rheostat-based control. I'm no specialist, so I can give only very basic insight of topic... The basic idea of rheostat-based control - there is a 3 power levels that achieves full efficiency (no extra waste heat and wasted electricity) - "serial connection (of engines)", "serial-parallel connection", "parallel connection". But only 3 levels of power is not enough for smooth ride, tram would accelerate and brake to rapidly, dropping standing passengers to the floor, going either too fast or to slow... So intermediate power levels are created between the main 3, with the help of resistors, that turn some of supplied electricity into waste heat. Right after the start, there are lot of connected resistors, but as tram accelerates, they are disconnected from circuit, until none left, then system reconnects engines in different pattern and connects resistors back, starting the resistor cycle again (e.g "serial connection, all resistors connected" -> "serial connection, lots and lots of resistors" -> "serial connection, lots of resistors" -> "serial connection, some resistors" -> "serial connection, few resistors" -> "serial connection, no resistors" - "serial-parallel connection, lots of resistors" -> ... -> "serial-parallel connection, no resistors" -> "parallel connection, lots of resistors" -> ... -> "parallel connection, no resistors").
It's totally OK for freight and intercity railways, where train may go at constant speed/traction for hours - driver set system to power level wit no resistors connected, so all the electricity goes into traction, not into heat. But this isn't the case for tram - it operates in start-stop mode due to frequent stops, intersections, street lights, traffic and thus spends lot of time with resistors connected into circuit, wasting electricity into heat.

The modern trams use semi-conductor-based control system, which can be set to any power level (not just basic 3) without using any resistors, which results in very smooth acceleration (in rheostatic systems there are typically about 20-40 levels of power, while in semi-conductor based, power can be adjusted by really small portions) and no extra waste heat produced, no electricity wasted. Such systems have very slightly lower base efficiency (e.g. at maximal power) due to loses in different semi-conductor stuff, but in case with trams and their constant starting/stopping, lack of need for resistors during acceleration results in electricity savings.

P.S.: If any of professionals have remarks and corrections - they are kindly welcomed, my education have nothing to do with transit and electricity, anyway. :lol:


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## Sunfuns (Mar 26, 2012)

I'm no professional either, but another area where efficiency might be gained is using lighter construction materials and thus decreasing the mass which needs to be moved around. That's the main way how airplane become more energy efficient...


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## Sunfuns (Mar 26, 2012)

But it would indeed be interesting to see numbers and compare 40 year old tram (in good condition) and a brand new one.


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## XAN_ (Jan 13, 2011)

Sunfuns said:


> But it would indeed be interesting to see numbers and compare 40 year old tram (in good condition) and a brand new one.


Well, in Kyiv authorities claimed that replacing 70-80-s tram electrics with modern electronics can save up to 40% in better case scenario.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Interesting comments. It would be interesting to see how they compare in terms of energy efficiency indeed (in a realistic tram setting). It would be even more interesting to see some lify cycle foot print calculation. You'd also have to include the fact that ULF trams apparently need a lot more maintenance than the old units as well as causing more stress to the tracks. I think it is a very good decision that the Wiener Linien are going to switch to another model. 

And would be modernization of the motor control be an option? Are old motors compatible with semi-conductor based control?


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## XAN_ (Jan 13, 2011)

Sunfuns said:


> I'm no professional either, but another area where efficiency might be gained is using lighter construction materials and thus decreasing the mass which needs to be moved around. That's the main way how airplane become more energy efficient...


I doubt that. Classic Tatra T3, one of the most numerous trams of the world of 60s-70s-80s weighted 11,5 t per 10 m of length, while 90s-00s Siemens ULF (Vienna modern tram) 12,1-12,3 t per 10 m respectively.
I suppose it just not easy to make trams lighter without making it to fragile... And unlike plains, where mass is lifted and must be provided with enough energy to counterforce gravity pull of Earth, here it rolls using steel wheels on steel, which is really undemanding in energy terms, it consumes even less energy than rolling rubber on asphalt.


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## XAN_ (Jan 13, 2011)

Slartibartfas said:


> Interesting comments. It would be interesting to see how they compare in terms of energy efficiency indeed (in a realistic tram setting). It would be even more interesting to see some lify cycle foot print calculation. You'd also have to include the fact that ULF trams apparently need a lot more maintenance than the old units as well as causing more stress to the tracks. I think it is a very good decision that the Wiener Linien are going to switch to another model.
> 
> And would be modernization of the motor control be an option? Are old motors compatible with semi-conductor based control?


Yes, it would be really interesting to see the real stats, but at least in Ukraine, trams, unlike railway trains, aren't equipped with electricity meters hno:

Considering lifetime footprint - it should be considered, that low floor trams have lower dwelling times at stops, so in the same schedule it's possible to drive them less "aggressively" (e.g. with less acceleration and braking), thus consuming less energy, compared to classic tram.
And if that aren't to confusing, low-floor trams have higher chances of attracting passenger from auto... All those indirect stuff a so confusing.

There are semi-conductor solutions both for classic DC motors and now popular (for number of reasons) AC. But, I suppose, whenever trams are refurbished, engines are to be changed, or at least, refurbished too.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Ok, maybe someone knows here if the E1 and E2 trams are still using the old technology described above or have been refurbished to semiconductor technology?




XAN_ said:


> I doubt that. Classic Tatra T3, one of the most numerous trams of the world of 60s-70s-80s weighted 11,5 t per 10 m of length, while 90s-00s Siemens ULF (Vienna modern tram) 12,1-12,3 t per 10 m respectively.
> I suppose it just not easy to make trams lighter without making it to fragile... And unlike plains, where mass is lifted and must be provided with enough energy to counterforce gravity pull of Earth, here it rolls using steel wheels on steel, which is really undemanding in energy terms, it consumes even less energy than rolling rubber on asphalt.


Mass is very significant. If it were only to roll on lage distances it would not be that important but trams have to accelerate very frequently an then it is all about mass.


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## NiGhtPiSH (May 14, 2009)

XAN_ said:


> I doubt that. Classic Tatra T3, one of the most numerous trams of the world of 60s-70s-80s weighted 11,5 t per 10 m of length, while 90s-00s Siemens ULF (Vienna modern tram) 12,1-12,3 t per 10 m respectively.
> I suppose it just not easy to make trams lighter without making it to fragile... And unlike plains, where mass is lifted and must be provided with enough energy to counterforce gravity pull of Earth, here it rolls using steel wheels on steel, which is really undemanding in energy terms, it consumes even less energy than rolling rubber on asphalt.


Yes and no. The main variable of the "weight" factor is axle load.


In my opinion E2 are superior than the ULF, and have been since 2006 overhauled with regenerative brakes. Their simple construction allows for easier maintenance and in winter they are much more comfortable.


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...esignalling-contract-awarded.html?channel=542
> 
> *Vienna Line U4 resignalling contract awarded*
> Tuesday, May 27, 2014
> ...


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...ms-metro-and-tram-extensions.html?channel=542
> 
> *Vienna confirms metro and tram extensions*
> Monday, June 30, 2014
> ...


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

^^ 

A more detailed map of the U-Bahn extension plan. This map also includes the planned tram extensions of the next years:



Anekdote said:


> ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

The existing Rathaus station currently has side platforms and is underground. It is planned to become an interchange station where Lines U2 and U5 will intersect. That will certainly require some extensive excavation work, or maybe a complete rebuilding of the Rathaus station.


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## KingNick (Sep 23, 2010)

A complete rebuild will be necessary.


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## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

^^Even if it means demolishing some historic buildings to rebuild the station?


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## KingNick (Sep 23, 2010)

I expect the crosslink to be built in a depth that won't affect the surrounding buildings.


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## Grotlaufen (Mar 2, 2007)

Had it been 50 yrs ago, the Austrians would've copied the Swedish way of constructing U-bahn:




























Today:










And because of these constructions many tourists believe that Stockholm was bombed to ashes during WW2 :tongue4:


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## KingNick (Sep 23, 2010)

Post-war era certainly was the worst thing that ever happend to European cities. WW2 carpet bombing was nothing compared to that.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Actually the Karlsplatz was also a huge U-Bahn construction site. But it was located at a square where few if any buildings were sacrificed. Luckily.

What Stockholm did back then was basically destroying almost all of its Norrmalm old town. The Viennese debate about clearing the Spittelberg was peanuts in comparison (and luckily Spittelberg was preserved, also thanks to some leftist actists). Luckily for Stockholm it got a lot of new protected buildings. Yup, most of Sergels torg is protected nowadays. So it would be illegal to tear down what was built on the torn down old town. 

Regarding the Rathausplatz station. I would be more than surprised if they were to sacrifice any of those buildings above it.


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## Adde (May 8, 2011)

Well, there are very few "legally protected" buildings in Sweden. They basically have to be designated "statligt byggnadsminne" (something like national heritage building) for that, and as far as I know, none of the buildings around Sergels torg have that status. What some of them do have is the "blue" classification (the highest on a three level scale), which means that they are considered very important for the cultural environment. That designation isn't an absolute protection against redevelopment, but it does make it much harder to do anything to the building that could harm the cultural values. 

You would basically have to have really strong reasons to tear down or substantially alter a building that has been classified as blue.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

I see. The "blue" classification was what I saw then. Anyway, it means some level of protection fo that IMHO not terribly pleasing or welcoming urban place that Sergels torg is. (It could be alot worse however, given what the car fanatic post war era created elsewhere)

Luckily Vienna did not tear down the States Opera for a car garage (sounds like madness, doesn't it?) Instead it restored it (with somewhat less opulent interior and orginal exterior) and built an U-Bahn hub below Karlsplatz next to it.


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## elliot42 (Feb 22, 2007)

Grotlaufen said:


> Had it been 50 yrs ago, the Austrians would've copied the Swedish way of constructing U-bahn:
> 
> <snip>
> 
> And because of these constructions many tourists believe that Stockholm was bombed to ashes during WW2 :tongue4:


Well, consider what NYC took down to build Penn Station (granted Penn Station was pretty damn impressive):


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## Kolothos (Oct 7, 2011)

Here's the sort of destruction Glasgow had during the construction of the M8










A very common theme throughout Europe.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Well, I guess Vienna can consider itself very lucky that there were no such big construction or rather destruction jobs realized. There were plans for an innner city highway network though but where it has been partly realized it only involved turning the southern Gürtel into a hostile traffic hell but without destroying the buildings next to it. 

Plans to extend the A1 through the Wien valey as far as to the ring were luckily never realized.


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## 43106 (Sep 1, 2014)

*Vienna Tram Depots*

I'm undertaking a project that looks for the tram depots of Europe. As far as Vienna is concerned, I've found the following...
1) Tram Depots at FAVORITEN (south side of Gudrunstrasse), FLORISDORF (Peitlgasse/Gerichtsgasse), HERNALS (Wattgasse) and RUDOLFSHEIM (Zollernsperggasse),
2) Tram Parks at BRIGITTENAU (Wexstrasse), GURTEL (Wahringer Gurtel), OTTAKRING (Joachimsthalerplatz), SPEISING (Hetzendorfer Strasse) and SIMMERING (Simmeringer Hauptstrasse).
I believe that there is another Tram Park at KAGRAN, but I can't find in on Google Satelite Maps (you can't do Google Earth in Austria). The Park MAY be under what looks like a incompleted railway bridge (it MIGHT be a depot for the Metro) at the west end of STEIGENTESCHGASSE, a few hundred metres north east of KAGRAN Metro Station. Have I got it right? Also, I'd appreciate it if someone could confirm my list of parks/depots is correct.
Thanks.


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## KingNick (Sep 23, 2010)

A complete list can be found here: http://www.fpdwl.at/fakten/bahnhoefe.php


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

This photo from construction of the new Oberlaa U1 station is from a little over two months ago. The station, along with four others, is scheduled to open 2017.09.02 as the southern extension of U1.










http://www.bildstrecke.at/U1/Images?filter=&filterCategory=U1


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

http://www.bildstrecke.at/U1/Images?filter=&filterCategory=U1


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

timelapse video of the U1 extension


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

No expansion of the tram network but a significant change in the network by switching the outer arms of the lines 2 and 44 in the west of Vienna. This involves some major redesign of the square in front of the Ottakringer brewery as well, reuniting two green spaces by abolishing a street cutting right through them. 

The tram lines will be adapted this year and the redesign oft he public area should be completed until summer 2018. 

Here is a great video summary of the project (in German, but the animations are pretty self explanatory):

http://www.wienerlinien.at/eportal3/ep/channelView.do?channelId=-2000704#2001588


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)

Why was the Vienna metro built later than the Budapest one? Were people more conservative in Vienna?


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## rudiwien (Jan 5, 2015)

Basically, a mass-transit system was implemented at approximately the same time as in Budapest, the "Stadtbahn", but it was using rather existing corridors than going underground:
- The corridor of the Wien river and the Danube channel (today used mostly by U4) 
- A corridor along the "Gürtel" (today mostly used by U6)
- And a line along the north-western hill range, a rather mountain-type track with a number of tunnels and bridges (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorortelinie), today used still by an S-Bahn.










Plans to tunnel under the inner city had been proposed as early as ~1845, and then again towards the end of the 19th century, but the plans were obviously not seen fit at that time, for whatever reason (maybe availability of these corridors was also much cheaper.. ?)

When they realised that an underground system might also be needed in Vienna, 1st world war was getting in the way. After that, Vienna was significantly less populated (see demographic chart below; though one would also need to factor in the population development in the suburban areas that only developed in the last decades..), combined with a post & pre-war economy, an underground metro was not needed any more, and not affordable.










Big plans in the "third reich", but then again similar after 2nd world war, much smaller population, not much money..
The city thus then focused on building partially underground trams (e.g. what is used now by the U2), and it took until the late 1960s/19070s for them to decide to build an actual metro...


In some ways, this was not bad for the current system I'd say, because it was built much more modern than other networks, and is a really accessible system nowadays, with rather enough room in the corridors, elevator access to the platforms, etc..


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)

Thanks for your answer. It is more efficient to convert existing railway to metro.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

It is, but it is not necessarily better. Before the started construction of the modern U-Bahn network, the heavy duty PT network in Vienna had serious design flaws. The main flaw was that it lacked radial lines, connecting the centre with the suburbs. 

On the other hand, this deficiancy saved the large tram network during the last decades and even though the subway construction did endager it again and also lead to several closures, it is still fairly large. And then there are the advantages which Rudiwien listed already.


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## Balkanada (Nov 6, 2010)

The Federal Administrative Court of Austria has approved the extension of line U2 and the construction of line U5










http://wien.orf.at/news/stories/2841738/


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## Smart City (Jul 1, 2016)

mrsmartman said:


> Why was the Vienna metro built later than the Budapest one? Were people more conservative in Vienna?


Well i can tell you that Metro in Vienna and Metro in Belgrade as well in Munich Metro , these three cityes were collaborated on metro projects on a same time.
In Belgrade Jovin/Maletin team.Unfotunatlly Belgrade didn,t started to build.Regards from Belgrade. 








Project of Metro Belgrade, with cooperation of Wienna and Munich Metro engineers.


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## FabriFlorence (Sep 29, 2004)

mrsmartman said:


> Why was the Vienna metro built later than the Budapest one? Were people more conservative in Vienna?


I think for political reasons. At the time of the Austro-Hungarian empire, the Hungarians wanted have the metro in their capital before the Austrians.


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## Smart City (Jul 1, 2016)

Fabri,well i can agree with you.Generaly on majority of cases,to build a metro was a always the political decision.


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## tunnel owl (May 19, 2013)

To cut a Long story short:

Even before Budapest build it´s first line, Vienna build the Stadtbahn (steam city-railway), which was later electrified and integrated in the tram-system. 

The first bigger metro-approval for Vienna was done around 1938 during Nazi-occupation, of cause after WWII it was obsolete

In the 50s, 60s it was politics which prefered the U-Strab and no metro for whatever the reason was (probably money).

Otherwise it´s still an interesting Thing that after opening Földalatti in Budapest in 1896, nothing happend with metro until the 1950s. Of cause there had been plans.


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## Alargule (Feb 21, 2005)

Basically a summary of the detailed answer rudiwien gave about a month ago. Quite fascinating to realize there were already plans for underground construction as early as the 1840's...

I wonder though: why was Heiligenstadt chosen as the end point of all three lines shown below?



rudiwien said:


> Basically, a mass-transit system was implemented at approximately the same time as in Budapest, the "Stadtbahn", but it was using rather existing corridors than going underground:
> - The corridor of the Wien river and the Danube channel (today used mostly by U4)
> - A corridor along the "Gürtel" (today mostly used by U6)
> - And a line along the north-western hill range, a rather mountain-type track with a number of tunnels and bridges (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vorortelinie), today used still by an S-Bahn.
> ...


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## Christian_AT (Nov 22, 2014)

Alargule said:


> Basically a summary of the detailed answer rudiwien gave about a month ago. Quite fascinating to realize there were already plans for underground construction as early as the 1840's...
> 
> I wonder though: why was Heiligenstadt chosen as the end point of all three lines shown below?


before 1918 Vienna has the same status like Paris or London, the capital of a strong power, all built railways started in vienna in all directions, this basic local vienna transport was not built für the people of vienna, they was built to be able to move fast troups through the city from one terminus main station to another

Heiligenstadt:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Franz_Joseph_Railway

in the last year was done a lot to solve the Vienna railway problem with the lainzer tunnel and new main station to stop loosing big amounts of time an increase capacity:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/Eisenbahnknoten_Wien.png


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

New network map for the integrated S-Bahn and U-Bahn network of the metropolitan area of Vienna, here the central part (everything within the white area is Vienna proper).

You can see already the not yet opened U1 extension south to Oberlaa. The biggest change however is something I have supported for a long time: Visualizing the highly frequented S-Bahn corridors in U-Bahn like fashion. That's what they did here. S45 and the S-Bahn main corridor ("pink line") are shown in a similar way as the U-Bahn lines and the legend describes them as "S-Bahn with U-Bahn like frequencies. This is certainly true for the main corridor and I think it is still justifiable for the S45 which has a 10 min headway most of the day and for the very late hours 15 min.

Many people don't touch the S-Bahn because they think it is only for commuters and has terrible frequencies. It is time that network maps make it clear that this is not the case for several central S-Bahn connections. 









source: http://nahverkehr.wien/forum/index.php?topic=7258.msg348225#msg348225


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

This is even a bigger change than I thought. S45 and S-Bahn core line stations will be adapted with that new colour scheme and most importantly, these two lines will feature on all subway network maps as well, not as some obscure thin blue line but as fleshed out individual lines also on the smaller overhead maps in all subway trains:



drjohann1 said:


> https://www.facebook.com/wienerlinien/photos/pcb.1639942052724363/1640022116049690/?type=3&theater


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## marciomaco (Jan 17, 2009)

If S45 is operating on its own and has no other S line using its tracks, couldn't it be moved to the underground system definitively? (Becoming a U7, or something like that)


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

S-Bahnen are operated by the national railway, ÖBB, while U-Bahnen are operated by Wiener Linien. Given that the S45 crosses regular rail service on both ends and in some limited parts uses tracks together with freight trains, it would be an utter mess to transfer it from the ÖBB to the Wiener Linien. 

No, I think the S45 is fine as S-Bahn.


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

marciomaco said:


> If S45 is operating on its own and has no other S line using its tracks, couldn't it be moved to the underground system definitively? (Becoming a U7, or something like that)


It could be. Sort of how the metro network in São Paulo works.


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## FabriFlorence (Sep 29, 2004)

Ashis Mitra said:


> Hmm that is true, but rolling stocks are *narrow* than other lines, so *less passenger *capacity on U6, so it is better to say a sophisticated light rail or light metro, is not? Overhead wire is not a problem, because in my country India, 7 among 9 metro networks are using overhead wire technology.


Having one or more lines with rolling stocks narrower than other lines does not mean anything. 

Just for an example, In Madrid the older lines (from 1 to 5) are narrower than the last ones (lines 2, 3 and 4 have also shorter trains and stations). In Berlin it's the same. But they are all true metro lines. Not light metro.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Ashis Mitra, you are right. the U6 vehicles are typical light rail vehicles. Similar ones are in use by the WLB as well and there they operate like a proper modern light rail, with tram like parts in the centre and regional rail like sections outside of Vienna. 

I consider the U6 a full and proper metro nonetheless. The main reason for that is that with the 4 unit trains of the U6 have a very similar capacity to the traditional U-Bahn vehicles. Light rail usually uses 2 unit trains or maybe in high capacity cases 3 unit trains. The U6 vehicles are 7% (20 cm) narrower than the V-type vehicles, which doesn't really make a big difference inside. I should know it. I frequently use both. 

Additionally the U6 is fully grade separated with complete metro-style stations and has a very high frequency and also the ridership which is among the highest of the entire network. 

What label you attach to the U6 doesn't really matter in the end though. It is important how it is used and integrated. It would be crazy to tear it out of the metro network and the network plans as it is one of the most heavily used lines of the whole network. The opposite is currently happening btw. The S45, has been integrated into metro network plans. The S45 has a great story and is a very fascinating line, if you don't know it you should have a look at it. At its heart it is actually a very new line (opened in 1987), yet it is as old as the U6 and was designed by Otto Wagner. On top of that it does feature some new stations which are however built in a way to integrate into his style.


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## rudiwien (Jan 5, 2015)

Ashis Mitra said:


> Hmm that is true, but rolling stocks are *narrow* than other lines, so *less passenger *capacity on U6, so it is better to say a sophisticated light rail or light metro, is not? Overhead wire is not a problem, because in my country India, 7 among 9 metro networks are using overhead wire technology.



Yes there is a difference, it is 15-17cm.
U1-U4 are either 2.8m (older U) or 2.82m (newer V Model), and U6 is 2.65m.

By that logic, many tubes in London, often 2.62-2.65m wide, are a light rail 


Btw, Trams in Vienna are either 2.2, 2.3 or (the low floor version) 2.4m wide.

In any case, I think Vienna won't rename the U6 to S6, just to make you happy


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## tunnel owl (May 19, 2013)

FabriFlorence said:


> But they are all true metro lines. Not light metro.




The term light metro is often misleading. It was used for VAL-type metros in Europe or even tramlike-systems with grade-seperated parts (metro ligero).


Chinese cities consider light-rail as elevated and grade-separated metros with fairly 2,70 m wide cars, whereas heavy metro has longer and wider trains. Maybe it would be better to talk about metros with small, medium and big capacity. But they are all metros because they are fully grade-separated and they are signal-operated, no driving on sight like tramways. That´s the main difference between metro and tram.


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

btw. some Underground lines in London aren't fully grade separated, yet it would be absurd not to call them Metro lines.


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## Ashis Mitra (Jan 25, 2009)

Thanks to all my friends from Vienna to clarify the technical details about metro line 6, and clearing my confusion. , now something about tram - 

Wien tram is one of the best tram network of the world for its sufficient and versatile technology and characteristics. It has a variety of rolling stock, and all types of alignment like on street, on grass, on granite stone, elevated and underground. Not many tram systems has such a versetality. The most interesting thing is there some a big underground tram network, with some branch, which is used by both tram and interurban.

Like my city Kolkata, it was also heard threatening for closure. From 1955 the abolition of the tramway in Wien was the contemporary transport planning vision, and investments were made accordingly. The construction of the Wien U-Bahn led to further extensive line closures in the tramway network, due to a policy that trams are not to operate in parallel with the U-Bahn, even on short sections. As this policy is still in effect today, further closures of tramway lines can be expected, to coincide with the further expansion of the U-Bahn network. However, the continued existence of the tramway network in Wien is no longer in question, and there are even some new openings planned. 

Comparing to past the present network is almost half of the previous network. Previously it was almost today’s Melbourne tram network length. But when Melbourne kept its all lines, Vienna closed many lines.

1) Route 117 towards Leopoldau, route 167 towards Rothneuseidl were replaced by metro.

2) Route 317 towards Gross-Enzersdorf, route 11 towards Stadlauer Brucke, route 80 towards Lusthaus, route 181 towards Freudenau, route 72 towards Schwechat, route 165 towards Inzersdorf, route 260 towards Perchtodlsdorf , route 360 towards Modling, route 47 towards Steinhof, route E towards Herbeckstrasse were closed.

3) Route 39 up to Sievering, route 40 up to Turkenschanzplatz, all tramlines through Eldersplatz, and many city central area routes were either closed or replaced by metro.

Side by side, some previous routes were also extended to all direction, In future there are plans to extend route 25, connecting route 0, 1 & 62, connecting route 6 & D, etc. _Could anyone tell me when those line will be opened?_


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

I don't have any insight in the decision making of the post-war time but I think an important factor securing the survival of Vienna's tram network is its geography. 

The dense inner districts are mainly located west of the 1st district and extend for approximately 5 km, end relatively abruptly with maybe 2 km further built up areas of lower density followed by ... nothing. The Viennese forrests act as a semi-protected green belt with only minor settlements and also as a barrier for transportation. The only major suburb outside being Klosterneuburg which is however rather to the north than west (directly next to the Danube). This distance is rather short for a subway line and also the reason why the U5 was not realized until today and also why the U5 will be somewhat of a stem line with little potential for extension westwards (beyond of maybe one stop the S45). For a tram line however, this distance is absolutely perfect. Time advantage of a subway would be merely a few minutes on average which is however eaten up by the longer access ways of less frequent underground stations. The trams can offer a very dense network, basically a line every second block or so. In other words, trams are better suited for that situation than metros. On the other side of the scale, a bus network would have struggled to keep up with the capacity needs in the inner west of Vienna. The transformation of the line 13 to 13A is a nice example for that and possibly was also a reason why it was not continued to a larger extend. 

The main reason why the U5 is now realized is, apart from a still existing bias towards metro construction, that the tram network is actually reaching the brink of its capacity along the Hernals corridor. The Wiener Linien prefer apparently an underused metro line to an overloaded tram line 43 et al. 



The closure of tram lines parallel to subway lines has been a long ongoing policy and are still enacted at the latest subway extension (U1 to Oberlaa). In that case it was however an almost complete alignment and there are plans for reconstructing that arm on a different corridor. (but like all tram plans this might be pushed down the raod for years or forever). However, for the U2/U5 extension there are signs that the Wiener Linien are breaking with that dogma. At least to my knowledge they do not intend to close down any tram lines, which would be a good thing indeed. 


Regarding openen dates for new tram lines, the Wiener Linien and the city of Vienna refuse to make any committments at all. All dates are intentionally vague and one can really only expect opening of lines in a timely manner once construction has actually started already. 

The only extension where this is the case is the line D south to the Gudrunstraße. But even there information is extremly scarce, I think it is planned to be opened at the end of 2019. 

The only other somewhat progressed expansion is the extension of line O from Praterstern northwest into the city development area Nordbahnhof. I have heard rumours that this should happen until 2020 but I have no idea if one can really rely on it. I do think that this extension has a very high chance of being realized fairly soon though. 

Line 25 and line 26 are planned as well, with extension of line 25 having apparently higher priority but both extensions are still fairly vague. Which is an utter diaster as the Seestadt is shockingly isolated from the traditional subdistrict centre Aspern. Line 25 would establish a fast and direct connection of the old and new subcentres. It is crazy how not even a bus line has been established so far at least in lack of a tram line. 

The other extension project, I don't know. Better go for the above rule, don't expect new tram lines unless construction has already commenced. Here is the ominous map of the PT-plan "2020": 









https://www.wien.gv.at/stadtentwick...g/strassenbahn/images/oeffi-paket-2020-gr.jpg

The line 15 has been already downgraded to busses btw. Line 12 is new and entirely speculative, don't expect it before the city developement area "Nordwestbahnhof!" has been at least partially constructed (10 years+ ??).


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## Ashis Mitra (Jan 25, 2009)

Thank you very much for this planned map and details explanation.

I am asking some questions—

1) Why there are tram route D, what does this D means?

2) Is Schottentor tram terminus has two separate alignment, i.e. partly on surface and partly underground?

3) Schottentor also has underground metro station. Is the tram & metro both use the same terminus or tunnel? Or there are separate tunnel?


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

There are still two lines with letters: D and O (not zero).

There used to be quite a few more. This comes from the original labelling system of lines. There were three categories:

Rundlinien (round lines, ie a tangential line in the inner suburbs): numbers 1-20
Radiallinien (radial lines, originating in the centre and connecting suburbs): numbers 21-82
Durchgangslinien ( like radial lines but not ending in the centre but continuing on the other side further to some other suburbs): letters A-Z

This system is now largely defunct but most lines still have their numbers originating from then. Most letters however have been replaced, the modern lines 1 and 2 for example have been created from letter lines. 

Schottentor is the largest tram terminus in Vienna. On the surface it has a ring side platform and on the other side a terminal loop. Additionally there is a second terminal loop underground. The former pre-metro tunnel and today's U2 platform is in a separate tunnel below that underground tram loop. To my knowledge, the underground loop was constructed in a way that an underground extension would be possible. The Greens have demanded such an extension via Herrengasse to Karlsplatz, connecting the underground terminating lines directly to the largest subway hub. This idea won't happen anytime soon if ever however, especially that the U2/U5 project is realized which serves somewhat as an alternative (connecting these tram already at Arne Carrlson Park with Karlsplatz)

Have a look here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIoKGeaDqtA


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## Ashis Mitra (Jan 25, 2009)

The loop seen in that video, I think it is not fully underground tram loop, because there sore some motorcars and trees. Is it the surface loop?


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

The underground loop is actually open in the middle, with a green centre. 

You can see what I mean on google maps: https://goo.gl/maps/TNoEr3faWun
The access ramp to the lower level is visible in the upper right corner of the map. 
The upper loop with the interior green being actually on the lower level, letting daylight into the lower level. The U2 station itself is on a separate lower, fully underground, level, connected by a short passage to the lower level tram loop.

This picture shows the two levels also pretty well: https://s3-media3.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/JzwkVzymW9yxchkGu1CBQA/o.jpg


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

New driverless automated U-Bahn type "X-Wagen"



















https://www.wienerlinien.at/eportal...ntId=4200960&programId=74577&channelId=-47186


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## KingNick (Sep 23, 2010)

Sticking with that ugly interior and exterior design. Bold.


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

I disagree about the exterior. I actually quite like how they stick with the iconic look of the Type Ux ("silver arrow"). This is one of Vienna metros great strengths: It's a (nearly) unified system with a distinct and strict design identity (stations, vehicles etc). However, I do hate the interior design.


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

You can clearly see the "evolution" and the relation of the designs:

Type Ux








(c) fpdwl

Type V








(c) Michael Taylor

Type X








(c) Wiener Linien


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## KingNick (Sep 23, 2010)

Type V and Type U have nothing in comon. Not even the same grey tone.


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

Z is a modern synthesis of U and V. That's my point obviously. And U and V do have quite a few things in common.


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

U4 is continually being modernized. Lately new rails and a new switch were installed between Margarethengürtel and Karlsplatz. Wiener Linien published a short and interesting timelapse of the works:






Bonus: Arnie taking the tram


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## Zero Gravity (Dec 5, 2010)

rheintram said:


> New driverless automated U-Bahn type "X-Wagen"


I'm glad they are using less seats and offer more standing space. On some lines with overcrowding during the rush hours it would be great to move away from the 2x2 seat arrangement entirely and just bolt seats to the wall.


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## Koloman (Jan 3, 2017)

Absolutely love the design of the X.
That dark front with the light bar really is amazing.


@Slarti: Your starting post in this thread is from 2006 - will you update it and add current numbers?


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