# Dubai ... Misunderstood



## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*The Sand and the Fury: Misunderstood Dubai Is Like a Needy Child *
Chris Wright
20 March 2006
New York Observer

Dubai—A friend and I once invented a game to keep us entertained at media events. We called it Dubai Bingo. Certain words and phrases crop up with such frequency in Dubai conversation that you could mark them off on a little card: Traffic, construction, heat, superficial, rent, Used to be just sand and This is not the Middle East. 

The last item on the list—This is not the Middle East—is generally uttered by knowing expats when a newbie betrays excitement about being in Dubai. When I first came here, in August 2004, I was very excited—in the way one is before bungee jumping, anticipation tinged with mortal dread. Before I left the U.S., people expressed concern that I’d be met at the airport by a thousand baying jihadis. One friend PhotoShopped a going-away card: Me, hands bound and jump-suited, kneeling before the requisite rifle-clutching head-removers. 

Pat D., the custodian at my former paper, summed up the prevailing attitude: “Are you fucking nuts?” 

I was met here, it turned out, by a wall of gym-sock humidity and a thousand jostling Bangladeshis. The cab ride up Sheikh Zayed Road toward the Gardens, the sprinkler-fed complex of lawns and apartments where I was to spend my first few months, was a blur of skyscrapers and billboards. There was a giant Britney Spears clutching a can of Pepsi, and behind her the sand of the Arabian Peninsula, extending endlessly into the night. 

Dubai has spent the last 15 years defying its Middle Eastern geography, turning its back on the restiveness and the thirst for petrodollars that define the bulk of the region. Instead of the Arab Street, we have our shopping malls. Instead of pilgrims, we have reddened tourists, expat creative directors, itinerant laborers from the subcontinent. You can go for weeks without seeing a burqa. 

Of the 1.2 million people living in Dubai, about 80 percent are foreigners. The emirate is, in many respects, not just a multicultural model for the Middle East, but for the world. Mosques and Irish pubs stand minaret to beer garden. At the malls, European girls expose their sacral tattoos alongside local women in full body armor. 

Cultural conflicts play themselves out on the letters pages of the newspapers, but never on the street. Certainly, anti-Western demonstrations wouldn’t be tolerated here, but even if they were, it’s doubtful too many people would drag themselves away from their satellite TV’s to attend. 

And, while no one seems to quite know why, there has never been a terrorist incident in Dubai. 

This last point marks the central irony to the Dubai Ports World debacle. Dubai’s wealth and pro-Western sentiment are coddled, in the midst of a grabby and disgruntled region, by a security apparatus that extends into all branches of its quasi-governmental business enterprises—none more so than its shipping industry. America wishes it had security like D.P. World. 

When the D.P. World affair kicked off, a friend back home e-mailed to ask me what people’s reactions were here. Were they outraged? Were they talking of U.S. imperialism and racism? Erm, no. People weren’t saying much of anything about it. They were too busy complaining about the traffic in Sharjah, the construction in Jumeirah, the rising rents in Karama. (Bingo!) 

What Dubai lacks in political discourse, it makes up for in clamorous self-promotion. A colleague of mine got a call recently from D.P. World chairman Sultan Ahmed bin Sulayem, who remarked that the controversy was in some way a boon for the emirate. Sure, we’ve received some coverage for developing the world’s tallest skyscraper, our indoor ski slope, the man-made islands that can be seen from the moon. But thanks to the D.P. row, Dubai is finally the talk of the town, globally. We’ve arrived. 

Alongside the blatant political jockeying behind the U.S. rejection of the D.P. World deal—no, we’re tougher on terrorism; no, we are—there could also be a little metropolis envy at work. The Guardian recently pointed out that Dubai, “the fastest-growing city on earth,” was shaping up to be the millennial equivalent of 19th-century London and 20th-century New York: “Not the modern centre of the Arab world but, more than that, the Arab centre of the modern world.” 

The Arab center of the modern world? No way, Hosnay. The U.S. reflexively views any up-and-comer—any challenger—with resentment. In the 1980’s, Americans shared fevered visions of Tokyo businessmen overrunning Detroit and, from there, Capitol Hill. Now it’s a bunch of Arabs stepping from shipping port to national monument to media conglomerate, taking over the whole damn show. Sept. 11 has provided a convenient backdrop for such protectionism. Never again! 

Mostly, though, the rejection of the deal is founded on ignorance, a failure to grasp what Dubai is, what it hopes with all its heart to become. Dubai is like a child in its craving for attention and affirmation from the West. It courts outsiders with fantasies of an Oz-oasis. You can make money quickly here. You can spend it even faster. You can sit and sip cosmopolitans on the beach while a thrumming, futuristic metropolis rises at your back. There is a hotel beneath the sea in the making. A condo complex shaped like a chess set. There are Free Zones—Media City and Internet City—miniature principalities where the usual rules don’t apply. 

This is not the Middle East. 

Much of the world has bought into this fantasy. Tourism now accounts for almost 20 percent of Dubai’s $30 billion G.D.P.—compared to less than 5 percent for oil revenue. Last year, five million visitors came here, and that figure is expected to rise to 15 million by 2010. The economy is growing almost 20 percent per annum, much of that growth fueled by the constant influx of immigrants. It’s an economic miracle, a multi-cultural marvel—and Americans haven’t really played a role in it. 

The U.S. does have a presence in Dubai—economically, diplomatically and militarily. But in terms of people, in terms of flip-flops-on-the-ground, America is out of the picture. Sit in the Agency, the swank wine bar at Emirates Towers, and you could easily imagine yourself to be in London. Visit the Deira souq and you could be in Mumbai. Dubai Media City often feels a lot like Beirut. You could never, though, imagine this place to be New York. There aren’t enough Americans. 

But perhaps bin Sulayem had it right. Maybe Americans will now look more closely at Dubai, to see it as the terrorism-free, blue-sky haven it is. I, for one, can vouch for the place. The local Arabs may be standoffish, but they want us here—certainly, they’re not about to start chopping people’s heads off. I do worry, though, about the help. 

Of the many expats in Dubai, the vast majority are from the subcontinent—the overworked and underpaid construction workers, the builders of this miracle who will never get to share in its bounty. These people are joined by the Filipino ashtray-emptiers, the Egyptian cab drivers, the Moroccan floor sweepers. Dubai is an extremely stratified city, not so much a melting pot as a layer cake. And you get a sense that those who occupy the bottom layer harbor a seething, potentially violent resentment toward the rest of us. Shortly after I arrived here, driving by a construction site, I was watched by a group of workers, squatting by the side of the road, sipping water in the terrible heat. One of them, a gaunt young man with bushy black eyebrows, looked at me with a mixture of shame and bitterness—a truly dangerous combination. That night, I e-mailed a friend of mine back home. “I’m no longer worried about being kidnapped by terrorists,” I wrote. “I’m worried about being force-fed my BMW.”


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## VanSeaPor (Mar 12, 2005)

Everyone knows "Dubai isn't the Middle East".


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## OtAkAw (Aug 5, 2004)

*"These people are joined by the Filipino ashtray-emptiers"*, grrrrr!!! My gun is ready now to shoot the person who wrote that stupid article!!! Filthy Chris Wright whoever he is, he's basically trying to demoralize Filipino spirit by hammering unto us some things that are difficult to digest!

You westerners would do almost anything just to feel superior over others!


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## 909 (Oct 22, 2003)

OtAkAw said:


> You westerners would do almost anything just to feel superior over others!


What a generalization. Thanks for pointing out how Western people (like me) suppose to be... :sleepy:


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## Harkeb (Oct 12, 2004)

VanSeaPor said:


> Everyone knows "Dubai isn't the Middle East".


hmm...is Dubai part of the West now? What's the deal here?


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## Towers (Jan 3, 2006)

^ it is, yet it isn't.


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## OtAkAw (Aug 5, 2004)

909 said:


> What a generalization. Thanks for pointing out how Western people (like me) suppose to be... :sleepy:


Oh no no no, that's just a figure of speech, the exaggeration-hyperbole thingy, whatever they are. I'm referring to the people who are doing those demoralizations. Rocks in the sky you knwo, if you're hit, then don't get angry...


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## VanSeaPor (Mar 12, 2005)

harkerb said:


> hmm...is Dubai part of the West now? What's the deal here?


It kinda is, lol. I don't see why the term "Western" has to refer to nations in the Western Hemisphere.


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## KGB (Sep 12, 2002)

"The emirate is, in many respects, not just a multicultural model for the Middle East, but for the world."


Ok...I can understand why the ashtray comment might offend a few people...but com'on...this statement is the craziest thing I ever heard...Dubai is multicultural, because it will allow "anyone" to be a temporary visitor with few rights, or an indentured slave (filipina ashtray engineers, etc).

What a joke. Having Britney Spears billboards doesn't make you "western"...it just means your taste in in your toenails.






KGB


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

It is true that many migrant workers have made their way to the Middle East in search of better-paying jobs, and have found them in Dubai's boom. They are able to make more money than they would otherwise get at home. However, not every country in the world is open to such an idea. For example, the Americans have been vehemently opposed to letting illegal aliens from Mexico gain an economic stronghold, and with security concerns mounting, bringing in foreign talent is irking a lot of political tensions these days. 

In fact, there is always a disadvantaged group in every modern society that bears the brunt of the jobs that the home-grown crowd won't want. How about the taxi drivers for example? Dubai's example is more visual and dramatic because of the sheer numbers, but the same phenomenon is inherent in London, New York, Toronto, and other Western cities.

The modern economies of the West are built on the backbones of the disadvantaged underclass who are willing to work day and night for a meagre wage so the corporate gods at the top can feast on a disproportionately large profit. That's capitalism.


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## odegaard (Jul 27, 2004)

When I first saw pictures of Dubai I said to myself:
"This must be some mega-city with 8 million people. Look at all those skyscrapers." 

Later when I found out the population was less then 1.5 million my gut instincts told me this is a city built on a "bubble economy".

Here's my question, (for all you Dubai lovers out there try not to get sensitive or take this the wrong way) Are there actually people who live in these skyscrapers or are they empty? *seriously* What's the vacancy rate?

In Shanghai they have a saying, "See through building" --- it's a building that is not occupied. The owner buys such a building and has no intentions of renting it out. The owner speculates that the building will increase in value and he'll sell it for a quick profit. In California we have the same thing but not as bad. There are no "see thru skyscrapers" in California but we do have "see thru homes".


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## Towers (Jan 3, 2006)

^ ah dude yes people live in these scrapers and they are getting sold like hell, dont forget dubai is the fastest growing city in the world


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

KGB said:


> "The emirate is, in many respects, not just a multicultural model for the Middle East, but for the world."
> 
> 
> Ok...I can understand why the ashtray comment might offend a few people...but com'on...this statement is the craziest thing I ever heard...Dubai is multicultural, because it will allow "anyone" to be a temporary visitor with few rights, or an indentured slave (filipina ashtray engineers, etc).
> ...


Dubai is multicultural because its has a large and diverse immigrant population. period.

as for the whole "indentured slaves" issue, this is a grossly misrepresented concept. many outsiders reporting on Dubai incorrectly use the term immigrant and labourer interchangeably. ive read reports on dubai stating that 85% of Dubai's population is made up of foreign labourers from the subcontinent. this is horribly wrong. 85% of dubai's population are immigrants, but only a small percentage of those are labourers or construction workers. the total number of labourers/construction workers in Dubai must be less than 40,000. there are around 2000 working on the Burj Dubai complex just to give all of you an idea. andthat complex is a 1square km development.

labourers and construction workers are the only demographic that can be considered "indentured slaves" (eastern european women sex workers too)because they are tricked by unscrupulous recruiting agencies into coming to dubai since they are promised things they recruiting agencies cannot guarantee. then, upon arrival, unscrupulous employers or pimps will take their passports, and meanwhile they are forced to pay off their debts from loan sharks in their home countries before they can ever think of leaving"


as for the other 1.5 million people, there are poor workers, however they are by no means slaves. and as for the domestic servants lucky enough to be hired by wealthy western or indian families, they live quite good lives - own servants quarters in nice houses, meals, pay etc. and many become a part of the family. kinda like live-in nannies in the US. the abuse of domestic workers does occur, but again not because of any problems with the system, its just that certain families are made up of assholes. i have seen many many well treated domestic servants first hand, but have only heard of abuse in the newspapers. i have never seen abuse first hand.

as for hte filipino workers, again, this whole "ashtray" bullshit is bullshit. it is an affront to the 10s of thousands of happy filipinos living in the city. calling them indentured slaves also is quite offensive. slaves dont have their own bowling leagues, go out to nightclubs, play basketball, have their own schools, own clubs etc. filipinos are very prominent in the city


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

edit


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## KGB (Sep 12, 2002)

"but the same phenomenon is inherent in London, New York, Toronto, and other Western cities."


No...it's not the same at all....an "immigrant" in Toronto, is a citizen...a full-fledged Canadian, with all the rights and priveledges that go with it. You are free to do whatever you like for a living.








KGB


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

odegaard said:


> When I first saw pictures of Dubai I said to myself:
> "This must be some mega-city with 8 million people. Look at all those skyscrapers."
> 
> Later when I found out the population was less then 1.5 million my gut instincts told me this is a city built on a "bubble economy".
> ...


look at all those skyscrapers? dude we only have like 30. theyre all full. many of them have been rented out in their entirety by emirates airlines, and cabin crew live in them. others are occupied by families.

currently, there is a huge shortage of residential units, and rent is SKYROCKETING because of it. in the next 5 years, the city's population will increase by almost 1 million. tell me, if we dont build more housing, where do you expect that extra 1 million to live?

currently, a huge portion of the new developments have been purchased by speculators, and indeed the property values have risen. however, once property values become too high, they will become overvalued, and owners will be forced to decrease rent or decrease the selling value - which is exactly what dubai needs! even if the property value falls from its peak, it will not become any lower than what they purchased the property for, since the property was relatively cheap to begin with. therefore a crash or bursting of the bubble is highly improbable, but a reduction in property values is foreseeable and most definitely a good outcome for the population of dubai who cannot afford high rents. essentially, once all the projects come online, the speculators would have offset the rising cost of rent that has come from the huge demand for property and inflation caused by the city's massive growth.


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

KGB said:


> "but the same phenomenon is inherent in London, New York, Toronto, and other Western cities."
> 
> 
> No...it's not the same at all....an "immigrant" in Toronto, is a citizen...a full-fledged Canadian, with all the rights and priveledges that go with it. You are free to do whatever you like for a living.
> ...


but with it comes to the full pressure to assimilate. you become first and foremost a citizen of your adopted country, and ur ties to ur home country must become secondary


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## KGB (Sep 12, 2002)

"but with it comes to the full pressure to assimilate. you become first and foremost a citizen of your adopted country, and ur ties to ur home country must become secondary"


pffft...obviously someone who has never been to Toronto.

It's the excact opposite you fool.








"as for the whole "indentured slaves" issue, this is a grossly misrepresented concept. "


Maybe it's YOU who should look up the definition of the term, and tell me how fabulous it is in Dubai.

Dubai is a giant facade...and the sooner it comes crumbling down the better. All the worst of sick consumerism of the west, and all the sick religious theology of the middle east....all wrapped up in one sick package.




Read this and tell me how "grossly misrepresented" it is.....




An Indentured, Invisible Majority

The utopian character of Dubai, it must be emphasized, is no mirage. Even more than Singapore or Texas, the city-state really is an apotheosis of neo-liberal values.

On the one hand, it provides investors with a comfortable, Western-style, property-rights regime, including freehold ownership, that is unique in the region. Included with the package is a broad tolerance of booze, recreational drugs, halter tops, and other foreign vices formally proscribed by Islamic law. (When expats extol Dubai's unique "openness," it is this freedom to carouse -- not to organize unions or publish critical opinions -- that they are usually praising.)

On the other hand, Dubai, together with its emirate neighbors, has achieved the state of the art in the disenfranchisement of labor. Trade unions, strikes, and agitators are illegal, and 99% of the private-sector workforce are easily deportable non-citizens. Indeed, the deep thinkers at the American Enterprise and Cato institutes must salivate when they contemplate the system of classes and entitlements in Dubai.

At the top of the social pyramid, of course, are the al-Maktoums and their cousins who own every lucrative grain of sand in the sheikhdom. Next, the native 15% percent of the population -- whose uniform of privilege is the traditional white dishdash -- constitutes a leisure class whose obedience to the dynasty is subsidized by income transfers, free education, and government jobs. A step below, are the pampered mercenaries: 150,000-or-so British ex-pats, along with other European, Lebanese, and Indian managers and professionals, who take full advantage of their air-conditioned affluence and two-months of overseas leave every summer.

However, South Asian contract laborers, legally bound to a single employer and subject to totalitarian social controls, make up the great mass of the population. Dubai lifestyles are attended by vast numbers of Filipina, Sri Lankan, and Indian maids, while the building boom is carried on the shoulders of an army of poorly paid Pakistanis and Indians working twelve-hour shifts, six and half days a week, in the blast-furnace desert heat.

Dubai, like its neighbors, flouts ILO labor regulations and refuses to adopt the international Migrant Workers Convention. Human Rights Watch in 2003 accused the Emirates of building prosperity on "forced labor." Indeed, as the British Independent recently emphasized in an exposé on Dubai, "The labour market closely resembles the old indentured labour system brought to Dubai by its former colonial master, the British."

"Like their impoverished forefathers," the paper continued, "today's Asian workers are forced to sign themselves into virtual slavery for years when they arrive in the United Arab Emirates. Their rights disappear at the airport where recruitment agents confiscate their passports and visas to control them"

In addition to being super-exploited, Dubai's helots are also expected to be generally invisible. The bleak work camps on the city's outskirts, where laborers are crowded six, eight, even twelve to a room, are not part of the official tourist image of a city of luxury without slums or poverty. In a recent visit, even the United Arab Emirate's Minister of Labor was reported to be profoundly shocked by the squalid, almost unbearable conditions in a remote work camp maintained by a large construction contractor. Yet when the laborers attempted to form a union to win back pay and improve living conditions, they were promptly arrested.

Paradise, however, has even darker corners than the indentured-labor camps. The Russian girls at the elegant hotel bar are but the glamorous facade of a sinister sex trade built on kidnapping, slavery, and sadistic violence. Dubai -- any of the hipper guidebooks will advise -- is the "Bangkok of the Middle East," populated with thousands of Russian, Armenian, Indian, and Iranian prostitutes controlled by various transnational gangs and mafias. (The city, conveniently, is also a world center for money laundering, with an estimated 10% of real estate changing hands in cash-only transactions.)

Sheikh Mo and his thoroughly modern regime, of course, disavow any connection to this burgeoning red-light industry, although insiders know that the whores are essential to keeping all those five-star hotels full of European and Arab businessmen. But the Sheikh himself has been personally linked to Dubai's most scandalous vice: child slavery.

Camel racing is a local passion in the Emirates, and in June 2004, Anti-Slavery International released photos of pre-school-age child jockeys in Dubai. HBO Real Sports simultaneously reported that the jockeys, "some as young as three -- are kidnapped or sold into slavery, starved, beaten and raped." Some of the tiny jockeys were shown at a Dubai camel track owned by the al-Maktoums.

The Lexington Herald-Leader -- a newspaper in Kentucky, where Sheikh Mo has two large thoroughbred farms -- confirmed parts of the HBO story in an interview with a local blacksmith who had worked for the crown prince in Dubai. He reported seeing "little bitty kids" as young as four astride racing camels. Camel trainers claim that the children's shrieks of terror spur the animals to a faster effort.

Sheikh Mo, who fancies himself a prophet of modernization, likes to impress visitors with clever proverbs and heavy aphorisms. A favorite: "Anyone who does not attempt to change the future will stay a captive of the past."

Yet the future that he is building in Dubai -- to the applause of billionaires and transnational corporations everywhere -- looks like nothing so much as a nightmare of the past: Walt Disney meets Albert Speer on the shores of Araby.


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

i have been to Toronto. and it is FAR less diverse than Dubai despite your rantings about "citizenship." the multiculturalism in Dubai BLOWS away Toronto's. in dubai you get unadulterated diversity.
unlike in Canada where overnight, immigrants suddenly become die hard maple leafs fans
you probably dont know, but there is a huge dubai-toronto link. so many people travel between toronto and dubai. a lot of people i know from dubai, graduate from high school here and go to Toronto for university. after one semester, they come back to Dubai with fake Canadian accents. thats an example of assimilation for you right there

you havent been to dubai. you are talking out of your ass, while I have seen both worlds

dont read those "reports" by people sent to dubai for one or 2 days. like the ones you posted they are all inaccurate and heavily outdated. dubai is changing faster than you can imagine. those ILO laws are about to be adopted as the UAE will very soon adopt a free-trade agreement with the USA. that ************ story pffft... that was so last year.

like i said, look at those friggin videos i posted of the filipinos. you wanna trust an outsider comin to dubai for one day desperate to write a "story"? or do you wanna trust the very people the reporter claims to speak for. i am a friggin sri lankan. watch the damn videos.

this reporter is trying to make it seem the lifestyles of maids in Dubai are horrendous. one of my friends' houseboys moved back to Kathmandu...now the same guy wants to move back to dubai! my family's housemaid 15 years ago was a part of our family. shes now workin in the maldives and still keeps in touch with us! as for some rich people i Know, the houseboy lives with them in a mansion, gets to eat the very food he cooks for the family, and drives the family around in a mercedes! we even used to chill together when I was a kid when he drove me and my friend around. compare that to living in a shack in india! my american-egyptian neighbours had a non-live-in housemaid. because she was sri lankan, she became very close with my family. anyway, this housemaid brought up the kids of that family from birth. when that family decided to move to Ohio, they desperately wanted to bring the housemaid with them. the housemaid went, but was so miserable there she moved back to dubai.


you are outta your league on this one man.
and the guy who wrote the article you posted is a friggin idiot


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## Jaye101 (Feb 16, 2005)

KGB said:


> pffft...obviously someone who has never been to Toronto.
> 
> It's the excact opposite you fool.


You beat me to it.


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

Zaki said:


> Listen, when you don't get paid, and have no option of leaving your job because they have taken your passport and papers then yes you are a slave. Like I said not all south asians there are slaves and the same goes with filipinos. But just because some filipinos there are doing great and living great lives doesn't mean that others aren't faced with slavery. The fact that some dubai and middle eastern companies force their workers to work with little or no pay by taking away passports is well known and well documented.


yes thats my point. ur only a slave if you're a slave i.e. south asian construction workers.
but people you make it seem that 95% of filipinos are slaves, and the other 5% are doing well, when its the other way around.

its the complete misrepresentation of fact and misinformation that you spew that is what im arguing against.

ive said to nomarandlee before, ive seen how blacks in America are treated... some are even tied to cars and dragged til their deaths. but im not so stupid to claim that "blacks in america are tied to cars and dragged to their deaths in racially motivated hate crimes." i understand that hate crimes in the US arent too common (relatively speaking).

*
check this website out
http://www.ofwzone.com/
OFW stands for overseas filipino worker. this particular website is UAE based.
it is run by filipinos, for filipinos. look at and tell me again that you think Filipinos in Dubai are slaves. and if you are worried about its credibility, there is even a report of a rape of Filipino to balance out all the good things happening in the Filipino community*


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

nomarandlee2 said:


> yea totaly, like the freedom of workers to have unions and NGO's to protect and monitor minorities rights, freedom of press, freedom to vote, freedom to marry a non-Muslim if you are a Muslim woman, freedom to convert to Buddism or Christianity if you are a Muslim,
> 
> oh wait, sorry I was thinking about another country and not Dubai.


-workers will soon be able to form unions
-a human rights NGO has just been established in the UAE
-we have access to free press such as BBC, CNN etc
-anybody can marry anybody in dubai (this lie that you keep spreading stating that Muslim women can't marry non-Muslim men is an example of the lies about Dubai (such as the one about filipinos being "indentured slaves") being spread.
- I dont have the freedom to vote, nor do I want it. I dont want my politicians to be bought off by lobbyists, or sacrifice the long term future of the country simply to get reelected
- anybody can convert to any religion. one of my Iranian Muslim friends freely converted to Christianity (another lie that you try and spread that non-muslims cant convert)


I can understand now why your first account was banned. you really are a troll


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## Zaki (Apr 16, 2005)

luv2bebrown said:


> When i was in Toronto, i saw mostly white people. I did see a bunch of non-whites too. but regardless, everyone i saw was westernized or their culture had been diluted in some way. Toronto just screams out MELTING POT, as opposed to tossed salad. sure Toronto is multi-racial, but its multiculturalism is just too diluted.
> 
> you just dont get scenes like this in Toronto where unadulterated diversity exists:
> http://www.hansrossel.com/fotos/film/emirates/deira1.mpeg
> ...


If all you saw in Toronto where a bunch of white people, then you obviously havent been around Toronto. EVERY single neighbourhood in Toronto has people from many cultures. Sure some may have a majority of greeks, italians, chinese or indians but they all contain people of other cultures as well. And these aren't commercialized gimmicks, dubai is the only city in the world that does that to attract attention, these are places people live and work. 

And that video showing multiculturalism, if you that is what you consider multiculturalism than thats just sad. Go to any mall or any busy street (for example Danforth for yonge) and you will see scenes far more diverse than this. 

And the stats you gave. First of all the people in Toronto are citizens of Canada and will not be kicked out unlike Dubai where most are temporary citizens. Secondly that stat is just for people in the city who were born outside of Canada. Most of Dubai is a new city so its not surprising that most people there were born somewhere else. But for a well established city like Toronto, above 40% is extremely high. But just because you were not foreign born doesn't mean you do not represent diversity. Many people in Toronto were born here but had parents or grandparents come from a different part of the world. My brother, and most of my friends were born here, but the vast majority of them are from asia, and are well in touch with their culture.

And finally you talk about the non whites in Toronto being westernized or diluted as you put it. First of all, what you consider westernized is just the way wealthy and middle class people live all around the world including Dubai. And secondly the culture being diluted in some way, well in a society like Toronto where all races cooperate and work together, everyone has to make some sort of concessions culturally in order to have a functioning society. This includes white people. In Dubai you do not have to make the same sort of limited cultural concessions because all the races in Dubai live in their own little world and don't want to give up any part of their culture because besides the ethnic emiratis, the rest will have to leave eventually. Toronto is a permanent home and thus we here have to make it work.

And the slave labour issue, the fact that you believe that slave labour is OK or atleast acceptible in any way is extremely disturbing. Yes a lot of the products used in North America come from sweat shops, but here in North America we make sure that this kind of in humane actiity is not allowed to take place here. The countries where the swat shops are, are sovereign countries and thus we can't make forcibly make them stop though i do agree that our governments should put more pressure to stop this from happening or atleast give the children and people being explouted by the sweat shops an education along with their work. The difference with Dubai however is, it happens on your own land and you can never claim to be a multicultural tolerant society while using certain ethnicities as slaves. And it isn't just 5% of the population being treated as slave labourers its much higher. In fact when it coems to south asians, the labourers (both slave and extremely low wage) are the majority.

On the issue of the natives, what occured happend a long time ago and the wrongs are of the pasts are being corrected by the people living there today. Yes the emirati people do not have to give minorities citizenship, but don't claim to be a multicultural society, especially saying your more multicultaral than cities like Toronto, NYC, and London when you are not willing to make than concession.


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

Zaki said:


> And the slave labour issue, the fact that you believe that slave labour is OK or atleast acceptible in any way is extremely disturbing. Yes a lot of the products used in North America come from sweat shops, but here in North America we make sure that this kind of in humane actiity is not allowed to take place here. The countries where the swat shops are, are sovereign countries and thus we can't make forcibly make them stop though i do agree that our governments should put more pressure to stop this from happening or atleast give the children and people being explouted by the sweat shops an education along with their work.


well thats convenient isnt it. you get all the benefits of using slave labour but since its not on your soil, you wipe your hands of all responsibility and sleep well at night. it doesnt matter to you that you are actively supporting slavery... so long as its not on your soil, its not your problem and you think its ok to keep contracting slave labour. what a pathetic attitude. 



Zaki said:


> The difference with Dubai however is, it happens on your own land and you can never claim to be a multicultural tolerant society while using certain ethnicities as slaves. And it isn't just 5% of the population being treated as slave labourers its much higher. In fact when it coems to south asians, the labourers (both slave and extremely low wage) are the majority.


the demographics of the workforce in dubai are based not on racism but economics. for that reason, I do not accuse California of not being a multicultural tolerant society simply because McDonald's workers there are black or mexican. 

where you are continually making up lies is that you confuse slave labour with low-wage workers. there is a difference. I am hoping you know what that difference is, and I trust you will make the distinction in the future.

slave labour in Dubai = construction workers because their passports are illegally confiscated and many dont get paid for months at a time by their shitty employers. that is why they are slaves, because they cannot leave and they dont get paid. this cannot be said for the low wage workers.

Low-wage workers in Dubai make a ton more money than they would make in south-asia, and since they are free to come or go as they wish, I have absolutely no problem with them because I know they are getting a better deal than India can provide for them.

this is where your lies and misassociations calling Filipinos slaves become apparent. Filipinos are generally well paid in Dubai, since they are quality employees. that is why they leave the Phillipines to come here in the first place. There are around 100,000 of them in Dubai. and 95% of them are generally pretty content living here. they have their passports and are free to leave if they dont like it.
[/QUOTE]



Zaki said:


> On the issue of the natives, what occured happend a long time ago and the wrongs are of the pasts are being corrected by the people living there today. Yes the emirati people do not have to give minorities citizenship, but don't claim to be a multicultural society, especially saying your more multicultaral than cities like Toronto, NYC, and London when you are not willing to make than concession.


since you are benefitting from living on the ruins of the native population, it is quite convenient for you to claim that Toronto is a multicultural society without giving a rat's ass about how the natives feel about having their land usurped from them, and where they are forced to live on reservations in their own homeland.

in dubai, we can claim to be multicultural because there are many different nationalities practicing their UNDILUTED culture. There is unwritten agreement, the natives allow us into their country, and in return we can practice our culture without assimilating. We do not simply invade the UAE, take over the country at gunpoint and then forcefully create a multicultural society while patting ourselves on the back.



Zaki said:


> And that video showing multiculturalism, if you that is what you consider multiculturalism than thats just sad. Go to any mall or any busy street (for example Danforth for yonge) and you will see scenes far more diverse than this.
> 
> *In Dubai you do not have to make the same sort of limited cultural concessions because all the races in Dubai live in their own little world and don't want to give up any part of their culture because besides the ethnic emiratis, the rest will have to leave eventually. Toronto is a permanent home and thus we here have to make it work.*


that vid is what i consider multiculturalism. and it is only a 10 sec clip on a single average street corner. 

in toronto everywhere i went, from Eaton centre, to all the streets downtown, to Mississagua - were all full of westernized people regardless of their race. could you please show me pictures of the kind of diversity you speak of? i would like to see day-to-day diversity on the streets.

that last point you made (the embolded paragraph) refers to my point earlier about the concept of diversity. to me, diversity is the coexistence of undiluted cultures.

you claim undiluted multiculturalism in Dubai only happens because people are going to leave at some point. I claim, that the diluted multiculturalism in Toronto only occurs because people are forced to assimilate or dilute their culture to some degree.


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## nomarandlee2 (Mar 18, 2006)

> luv2bebrown-workers will soon be able to form unions


 What is the hold up? Why aren't there unions now? I will beleive it when I see it.



> -a human rights NGO has just been established in the UAE


 So the Dubai goverment has local unfestered women groups, minority lobbies, and other rights organizations that can speak and inquire freely the press and publish their findings? Don't think so.



> -we have access to free press such as BBC, CNN etc


 Sorry, satellite TV doesn't count. Untill local newspaper and media are free from government inferance and regulation then there is no "freedom of press".



> -anybody can marry anybody in dubai (this lie that you keep spreading stating that Muslim women can't marry non-Muslim men is an example of the lies about Dubai (such as the one about filipinos being "indentured slaves") being spread.


 No its not. The law is on the books there. Is it strictley enforced? I am not sure. Do they have draconiam law still on the books regardless? Yes.



> - I dont have the freedom to vote, nor do I want it. I dont want my politicians to be bought off by lobbyists, or sacrifice the long term future of the country simply to get reelected


 Not the first time you have espoused dictators and authoritians over democracy. Pretty frightening. When people (as those from Dubai themselves had said) that the majority of citazens don't want liquar in their city and they are not allowed to even protest or speak out against the practice then I think there are problems.
If you are for dictators and authoritariens in one place then you are for them everywhere. Any dictator who has no accountablity towards the people can claim they are perfectley carrying out the will of the people and no best. It is a slippy arrogent slope that unfortunatley you seem to embrace.



> - anybody can convert to any religion. one of my Iranian Muslim friends freely converted to Christianity (another lie that you try and spread that non-muslims cant convert)


 Again, the law says otherwise. Also one is not allowed to proselytize (if you are non-Muslim) as well. How would the Muslim community in Canada or the U.S. react if told they can't proselytze or share their religion? It wouldn't be pretty. 



> I can understand now why your first account was banned. you really are a troll


 Stating the realities of a situation is not trolling. I would say trolling is calling women who don't wear veils whores as smussuw has done (and some of you don't even have the spine to condemn such talk). Trolling is talking about other forumers having sex with animals (the mid-east has never been know for its wonderfull of comedy granted. I do appreciate attemps at sophomoric humor though).


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## Zaki (Apr 16, 2005)

luv2bebrown said:


> well thats convenient isnt it. you get all the benefits of using slave labour but since its not on your soil, you wipe your hands of all responsibility and sleep well at night. it doesnt matter to you that you are actively supporting slavery... so long as its not on your soil, its not your problem and you think its ok to keep contracting slave labour. what a pathetic attitude.


When did i say it doesn't matter to me. I think you need to go learn how to read because i clearly said that our governments should do more to stop it. My point was since it isn't in my country, i personally cannot forcefully stop it. If that kind of think took place in Toronto, the people here would put it to a stop immediately and that is because they can. I can't stop it from occuring in another country, i can only expect my government to try to do something about. Read my point before making claims. The fact that you let slave labour occur in YOUR country is what is trully pathetic.



luv2bebrown said:


> he demographics of the workforce in dubai are based not on racism but economics. for that reason, I do not accuse California of not being a multicultural tolerant society simply because McDonald's workers there are black or mexican.


California's Mcdonalds workers aren't all mexican or black, there are plenty of people from other cultures. Having all your construction workers from one region because it is cheap to do so is not economics, its taking advantage of the disadvantaged. 



luv2bebrown said:


> where you are continually making up lies is that you confuse slave labour with low-wage workers. there is a difference. I am hoping you know what that difference is, and I trust you will make the distinction in the future.
> 
> 
> slave labour in Dubai = construction workers because their passports are illegally confiscated and many dont get paid for months at a time by their shitty employers. that is why they are slaves, because they cannot leave and they dont get paid. this cannot be said for the low wage workers.
> ...


How am i continually making up lies. If I didn't see a difference between low wage jobs and slave labour, then i would not have seperated them in my post. Again read before you make retarded claims on what someone else said. 

And yes the low wage worker maybe making more than what they would in India, but that doesn't change the fact that they are far below any other social group in Dubai and struggle to make a living there. In North America and Europe there are laws for what a minimum wage can be preventing people from taking advantaged of disadvantaged people desperate for work. And the fact that you are still ok with having slave labour in your country is again very disturbing. The people have a responsibilty of helping these people get out of slavery yet they seem to be perfectly content with this taking place.





luv2bebrown said:


> since you are benefitting from living on the ruins of the native population, it is quite convenient for you to claim that Toronto is a multicultural society without giving a rat's ass about how the natives feel about having their land usurped from them, and where they are forced to live on reservations in their own homeland.
> 
> in dubai, we can claim to be multicultural because there are many different nationalities practicing their UNDILUTED culture. There is unwritten agreement, the natives allow us into their country, and in return we can practice our culture without assimilating. We do not simply invade the UAE, take over the country at gunpoint and then forcefully create a multicultural society while patting ourselves on the back.


When did i say i didn't care about how the native people feel? What happened to the natives was completely wrong, but one thing you shouldn't forget is what happened occured many generations ago. It was a time where racism was completely acceptable. People from Canada aren't patting themselves in the back because they took over native land but they where able to over come and reverse the racist and un ethical views held by their ancestors and create a tolerant multicultural society. And yes its true that in Canada their are obstacles put in the way of natives in order to keep them in reserves but most people in Canada today completely disagree with the way the government is treating them and many are fighting it as well. The reserves aren't however a part of Toronto and thus does not effect Toronto's multiculturalism.

And this undiluted culture you speak off, that is the most retarded shit i have ever heard. Almost every culture in the world is in someway diluted. I can go back to my native Bangladesh and the culture of the people there are exactly the same as the culture of the Bangladeshi Canadians here. Its not dilution, its just globalization. And the same amount of "dilution" is present among the people of Dubai. I don't know what hole you ve been living in the past few decades, but all the people I know in Dubai are just as globalized in their culture as I am.





luv2bebrown said:


> that vid is what i consider multiculturalism. and it is only a 10 sec clip on a single average street corner.
> 
> in toronto everywhere i went, from Eaton centre, to all the streets downtown, to Mississagua - were all full of westernized people regardless of their race. could you please show me pictures of the kind of diversity you speak of? i would like to see day-to-day diversity on the streets.
> 
> ...


You claim what ever the **** you want, it does not make it true. I was not forced to assimilate into Canada and i haven't assimilated into Canada. I have added my culture to the mosaic of cultures that already exists. I immigrated to Canada thus I don't just make dumbass claims rather i speak from personal experience. And the small dilutions you talk about, first of all, most of that did not take place when i moved to Canada rather occured while i lived in the middle east, and secondly without any concessions you can never have a global world. To communicate and work with other cultures you have to find a middle ground, that is the reality. To have it completed undiluted, different cultures would have to be completed isolated from each other or else some degree of dilution will take place.


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## nomarandlee2 (Mar 18, 2006)

Zaki I am not sure it is worth it. Some are just gung on excusing racism, segeration, abhorant labor policies, and virtues of quick and out multi-culturalism.

I mean when one defeneds authoriantism and non-democratic government and lack of free press then maybe one is beyond the pale.


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

Zaki said:


> And yes the low wage worker maybe making more than what they would in India, but that doesn't change the fact that they are far below any other social group in Dubai and struggle to make a living there. In North America and Europe there are laws for what a minimum wage can be preventing people from taking advantaged of disadvantaged people desperate for work. And the fact that you are still ok with having slave labour in your country is again very disturbing. The people have a responsibilty of helping these people get out of slavery yet they seem to be perfectly content with this taking place.


this is what im saying. there is no slavery/ultra low wage jobs in the west because you contract third world countries to produce these cheap goods for you.

you can pretend to be the champion of human rights but so long as your country is buying clothes, shoes, cheap clocks and other cheap goods made by sweatshop workers, you too are fully complicit in slavery. you seem perfectly happy that your country hasnt boycotted products made with cheap labour from third world countries. its SO hypocritical that you think its bad to have slavery in your own country but you are perfectly fine with using slaves in other countries to maek your products.

NOW YOU KNOW, YOU GOTTA KNOW TO BE A HYPOCRITE BABY


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

nomarandlee2 said:


> Zaki I am not sure it is worth it. Some are just gung on excusing racism, segeration, abhorant labor policies, and virtues of quick and out multi-culturalism.
> 
> I mean when one defeneds authoriantism and non-democratic government and lack of free press then maybe one is beyond the pale.


the UAE is spending billions securing a future... even the worst off (the slaves) are getting better off day by day.

whereas in America, teh democratically elected government would put $600 billion in war funding ahead of helping the homeless, educating its youth. etc

you can stick with you corrupt democratically elected leaders.
ill take my enlightened despot anyday.


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

nomarandlee2 said:


> What is the hold up? Why aren't there unions now? I will beleive it when I see it.
> 
> So the Dubai goverment has local unfestered women groups, minority lobbies, and other rights organizations that can speak and inquire freely the press and publish their findings? Don't think so.
> 
> ...


you are throwing stones from a glass house nomarandlee.
coming from a country that pioneered the concept of modern day sweatshop slavery, and a country that still utilizes slave labour in SE Asia, you are in no position to comment on human rights in Dubai.

additionally, all your lies about people not being able to convert are all lies. people can marry who they want too. look at all the UAE national women who have married foreigners from teh UK to other Arab gulf states.

no you cannot proselytize, but you cannot usurp the cuontry from the natives either. how do the natives in canada feel that their country has been usurped by immigrants? how would UAE natives feel if immigrants took over hte country using the barrel of a gun?

stop with your useless lies and trolling.
again, remember a moderator saw fit to ban you once already for your trolling... you have quite the reputation for being a troll on this forum.


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## nomarandlee2 (Mar 18, 2006)

luv2bebrown said:


> the UAE is spending billions securing a future... even the worst off (the slaves) are getting better off day by day.
> 
> whereas in America, teh democratically elected government would put $600 billion in war funding ahead of helping the homeless, educating its youth. etc
> 
> ...



whatever you say the American goverment is still accountable by its people by virtue of voting. No matter whatr happens there is a dignity and shared accountablity between people and leaders no matter what happens that your sheik deports can't claim.

If you don't want to take the U.S. an example then take Sweden or Germany or Canada.

And no I wouldn't call the "slaves getting better everyday" a reality. Do they have a voice? Can they take back the passports that are taken from them and leave anytime? Can they write to the newspaper and have their concerns published? Can they organise and form unions? No. So instead of speaking for hundreads of thousands as you arrogently do I would refrain from acting so presumptiously.


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

-yes things are getting better for them everyday.
-now they arent afraid to protest
-and once the US-UAE FTA comes online, they will be able to unionize.
-an independent human rights NGO has been set up in the UAE
-a government worker protection organization has been set up to address complaints by workers.
- 80+ or so new inspectors have been hired to inspect labour camps and working sites.

was any of this here in 2004? NO!









50% of the eligible voting population in the uS vote. the rest dont care.
the ones that do vote, vote to go to war in Iraq based on a phony propaganda campaign.
US politicians are continually bought off by lobbyists.
$600 billion on war! and youre saying the government is accountable. LOL!
i mean look at what the US has done to Latin America! and look at what its doing to Cuba still! Not only does the US effect an embargo on cuba, but it also flexes its political muscle to force others to effectively impose an embargo on cuba too!. kids in cuba dont play catch with balls, they play catch with rocks! and you're telling me the US government is accountable!


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

http://www.geocities.com/jomafirom15/dubaiyuki.htm


Islam is the official religion of the U.A.E (with a large number of Mosques dotted throughout the city), and Arabic is the official language. However, other forms of faith or religion are also permitted as there are numerous Catholic Churches in the country with the Saint Michael's Church in Sharjah and Saint Mary's Church in Dubai being well attended by Filipino Expatriates and other nationalities as well.


Dubai is packed with quality, little street restaurants who offer good food at reasonable prices (Tip: just don't convert the value to Philippine Peso). There's a wide variety of food being served due to a large number of expatriates which is composed of around 80 nationalities. International fastfood companies, fine dining restaurants and coffee shops can also be found, but if you're looking for great Filipino foods, there's numerous restaurants here mostly located in Karama area (where a large number of Filipino Expatriates lives) like Tagpuan, Goldilocks (offers Filipino, Chinese and Thai foods), Delmon (famous for it's Goto) and Bulwagang Pilipino, plus Barrio Fiesta in Deira.


There are various Filipino sports club in the country with almost 30 clubs in Dubai under the auspices of the Labour Office and among them are Church-based groups. There's also Filipino clubs in other parts of the country with around 20 in Abu Dhabi and some in Sharjah, Al Ain and Ras Al Khaimah. The active groups includes dancing, computer clubs, basketball, tennis, bowling and dart with a very strong following from the Filipino community. The Filipino community here are also staging events all year round which includes functions, cultural shows and fund raising campaign that benefits some non profit organization in the Philippines like the Bantay Bata Foundation. Some sporting activities includes Filipino actors coming here to play basketball and bowling which commands a significant following among Filipino sports enthusiasts. May 6 - 7, 1999 was very memorable to most Filipino sports fan across the country as the UAE hosted the 3rd Philippine Friendship Games in Dubai, the biggest sports event for Filipinos in the Gulf Region.


The Embassy of the Republic of the Philippines through its Dubai Office of the Labor Attache' / OWWA and in coordination with Filipino Community Organizations, is presently conducting skills training and skills upgrading programs and projects being held at the Dubai Filipino Workers Resource Center. This is in compliance with the provisions of RA 8042 and in cognizance of the need to conceptualize and implement programs and projects that will directly benefit Overseas Filipino Workers wanting to acquire new skills or desiring to upgrade their skills. Some of the programs and projects includes: PC Assembly, Computer Basic Lessons, Photography, STAAD III (Structural Analysis and Design), Ballroom Dance Clinic, Meat Processing & Food Preservation and Dressmaking & Design.


The Filipino's love for music can be identified through numerous Filipino clubs in most of the Hotels in Dubai as well as in Abu Dhabi. Filipino bands are the most sought after bands as they gather numerous crowds of different nationalities. Every year, they are staging the Pinoy Battle of the Bands and concerts by famous Filipino Artists like Gary Valenciano, Side A band, Francis M, Eraserheads, Pops Fernandez and many more. Working here is not easy as other people think so but Filipinos still finds sometime to relax from a hard day's work thru some sporting activities and of course listening to live music and spend some of their hard earned Dirhams (local currency) by a little form of enjoyment. During Thursday and Friday here (this is the weekend for Muslim people), Filipino clubs are packed with not only Filipinos but other nationalities as well as some Pinoys usually bring their friends along with them and enjoy the sounds of Filipino music. Though the cost of liquors in the clubs are a little bit of costly, still it won't stop Pinoys from enjoying themselves.


The so-called Pinoy club scene started in the UAE in the early 1980's, and gained tremendous popularity in the late 1990's. This can be attributed to the growing number of Filipinos in the UAE with more than 100,000 already. Nowadays, visit any three or five-star hotels and you will find out that the resident band in the restaurant or bars are Pinoys. In the last three years or so, some of the hotel bars even replaced their foreign performers with Pinoys. In most cases, they even converted the whole venue into a Pinoy club or bar. Pinoy bands attract not only their "kabayans" to their shows, foreigners are also regular customers in Pinoy Gigs. The appeal of Pinoys' brand of music and sound transcends cultures or nationalities. Filipino bands guarantee the profit for the owner of the restaurant or bar because they attract a large audience. As show bands, they can perform a variety of songs which appeal to all kinds of people.


Below are some of the old and latest happenings in the area with new Filipino movies being shown and live concerts and shows by top Filipino Singers and comedian.


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

"Philosophy of Poverty" - Immortal Technique

"Most of my Latino and black people who are struggling to get food, clothes and shelter in the hood are so concerned with that, that philosophising about freedom and socialist democracy is usually unfortunately beyond their rationale. They don't realize that America can't exist without separating them from their identity, because if we had some sense of who we really are, there's no way in hell we'd allow this country to push it's genocidal consensus on our homelands. This ignorance exists, but it can be destroyed.

*****s talk about change and working within the system to achieve that. The problem with always being a conformist is that when you try to change the system from within, it's not you who changes the system; it's the system that will eventually change you. There is usually nothing wrong with compromise in a situation, but compromising yourself in a situation is another story completely, and I have seen this happen long enough in the few years that I've been alive to know that it's a serious problem. Latino America is a huge colony of countries whose presidents are cowards in the face of economic imperialism. You see, third world countries are rich places, abundant in resources, and many of these countries have the capacity to feed their starving people and the children we always see digging for food in trash on commercials. But plutocracies, in other words a government run by the rich such as this one and traditionally oppressive European states, force the third world into buying overpriced, unnecessary goods while exporting huge portions of their natural resources.

I'm quite sure that people will look upon my attitude and sentiments and look for hypocrisy and hatred in my words. But my revolution is born out of love for my people, not hatred for others.

You see, most of us Latinos are here because of the great inflation that was caused by American companies in Latin America. Aside from that, many are seeking a life away from the puppet democracies that were funded by the United States; places like El Salvador, Guatemala, Peru, Columbia, Nicaragua, Ecuador and Republica Dominicana, and not just Spanish-speaking countries either, but Haiti and Jamaica as well.

As different as we have been taught to look at each other by colonial society, we are in the same struggle and until we realize that, we'll be fighting for scraps from the table of a system that has kept us subservient instead of being self-determined. And that's why we have no control over when the embargo will stop in Cuba, or when the bombs will stop dropping in Vieques.

But you see, here in America the attitude that is fed to us is that outside of America there live lesser people. "**** them, let them fend for themselves." No, **** you! They are you! No matter how much you want to dye your hair blonde and put fake eyes in, or follow an anorexic standard of beauty, or no matter how many diamonds you buy from people who exploit your own brutally to get them, no matter what kind of car you drive or what kind of fancy clothes you put on, you will never be them. They're always gonna look at you as nothing but a little monkey. I'd rather be proud of what I am, rather than desperately try to be something I'm really not, just to fit in. And whether we want to accept it or not, that's what this culture or lack of culture is feeding us.

I want a better life for my family and for my children, but it doesn't have to be at the expense of millions of lives in my homeland. We're given the idea that if we didn't have these people to exploit then America wouldn't be rich enough to let us have these little petty material things in our lives and basic standards of living. No, that's wrong. It's the business giants and the government officials who make all the real money. We have whatever they kick down to us. My enemy is not the average white man, it's not the kid down the block or the kids I see on the street; my enemy is the white man I don't see: the people in the white house, the corporate monopoly owners, fake liberal politicians--those are my enemies. The generals of the armies that are mostly conservative--those are the real mother-fuckers that I need to bring it to, not the poor, broke country-ass soldier that's too stupid to know shit about the way things are set up.

In fact, I have more in common with most working and middle-class white people than I do with most rich black and Latino people. As much as racism bleeds America, we need to understand that classism is the real issue. Many of us are in the same boat and it's sinking, while these bourgie mother-fuckers ride on a luxury liner, and as long as we keep fighting over kicking people out of the little boat we're all in, we're gonna miss an opportunity to gain a better standard of living as a whole.

In other words, I don't want to escape the plantation--I want to come back, free all my people, hang the mother-fucker that kept me there and burn the house to the god damn ground. I want to take over the encomienda and give it back to the people who work the land.

You cannot change the past but you can make the future, and anyone who tells you different is a fuckin' lethargic devil. I don't look at a few token Latinos and black people in the public eye as some type of achievement for my people as a whole. Most of those successful individuals are sell-outs and house negroes.

But, I don't consider brothers a sell-out if they move out of the ghetto. Poverty has nothing to do with our people. It's not in our culture to be poor. That's only been the last 500 years of our history; look at the last 2000 years of our existence and what we brought to the world in terms of science, mathematics, agriculture and forms of government. You know the idea of a confederation of provinces where one federal government controls the states? The Europeans who came to this country stole that idea from the Iroquois league. The idea of impeaching a ruler comes from an Aztec tradition. That's why Montezuma was stoned to death by his own people 'cause he represented the agenda of white Spaniards once he was captured, not the Aztec people who would become Mexicans.

So in conclusion, I'm not gonna vote for anybody just 'cause they black or Latino--they have to truly represent the community and represent what's good for all of us proletariat.

Viva la revolucion!"


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## zergling (Jul 5, 2004)

Since when did multiculturalism become the ultimate good thing...?


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

within globally oriented cities that depend on immigration for growth, multiculturalism is key

within societies that do not participate in the international economy AND depend on immigrants, then i guess multiculturalism doesnt matter


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## Zaki (Apr 16, 2005)

zergling said:


> Since when did multiculturalism become the ultimate good thing...?


Today's world is a global world. Everybody is dependant on each other. The more multiculutural your place is, the greater your places ability to work with other countries giving you a competitive edge. And the more you work with other countries, the more prosperous your place will be. Most of the world's big, powerful, and succesful cities depend on this basic philosophy.


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## Zaki (Apr 16, 2005)

luv2bebrown said:


> this is what im saying. there is no slavery/ultra low wage jobs in the west because you contract third world countries to produce these cheap goods for you.
> 
> you can pretend to be the champion of human rights but so long as your country is buying clothes, shoes, cheap clocks and other cheap goods made by sweatshop workers, you too are fully complicit in slavery. you seem perfectly happy that your country hasnt boycotted products made with cheap labour from third world countries. its SO hypocritical that you think its bad to have slavery in your own country but you are perfectly fine with using slaves in other countries to maek your products.
> 
> NOW YOU KNOW, YOU GOTTA KNOW TO BE A HYPOCRITE BABY


Listen, there is a difference between the sweat shops and the slave labour in Dubai. The people who work in the sweat shops are desperate, they cannot survive without the money they make from the sweat shops and they do not have the ability or educational background to get jobs in other places. It is similar to the low wage jobs in Dubai. Slave labour on the other hand forces you to work in a place against your will and without pay. There is a difference. They are not slaves like the people in Dubai.

And also Bangladesh is one of those countries with the sweat shops and thus one of my countries do have sweat shops. I am however partly ok with them because the people who work there have no where else to turn to. Without that money they would be starving. Sure the conditions should definitely be better, but still it is no comparison to Dubai where people are forced to work without pay against their will.


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## zergling (Jul 5, 2004)

Zaki said:


> Today's world is a global world. Everybody is dependant on each other. The more multiculutural your place is, the greater your places ability to work with other countries giving you a competitive edge. And the more you work with other countries, the more prosperous your place will be. Most of the world's big, powerful, and succesful cities depend on this basic philosophy.



"Work with other countries"? You mean trade or what?
I took a look at countries with the largest trade volume... US, Germany, China, Japan... only the US is somewhat multi-cultural, only somewhat though... I don't think people give a damn whether a city or a country is multicultural in reaching the decision of whether to work with it or not. If working with someone implies a benefit, then they do it.
Multicuturalism is perhaps good overall, but is not the best thing ever happened to certain cities...


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

luv2bebrown said:


> http://www.geocities.com/jomafirom15/dubaiyuki.htm
> 
> 
> Islam is the official religion of the U.A.E (with a large number of Mosques dotted throughout the city), and Arabic is the official language. However, other forms of faith or religion are also permitted as there are numerous Catholic Churches in the country with the Saint Michael's Church in Sharjah and Saint Mary's Church in Dubai being well attended by Filipino Expatriates and other nationalities as well.
> ...


There sure are alot of Filipinos in Dubai huh. They even have some of their known estalishments there like Goldilocks for example.


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