# Income per Capita (Nominal) for 2005, and for all the countries



## defi (Jul 30, 2004)

Compaq said:


> yes just like i said, sydney is approx the size of that whole "country"


Being a tiny nation doesn't make it less sovereign than any other nation on the planet.


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## Handsome (May 2, 2005)

defi said:


> Being a tiny nation doesn't make it less sovereign than any other nation on the planet.


that's true.


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## Compaq (Mar 5, 2005)

meh there r limits i think to country's sizes... i find it hard to really call a dot a country, i dought it has even 1 soilder, i dunno, its just 2 small. I like to call countries those with 2 million + .. just me.


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## GlobalJoe (Sep 11, 2004)

wow!! didnt expect Ireland to be on the top five...really impressive!!


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## Compaq (Mar 5, 2005)

sure is  !


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## defi (Jul 30, 2004)

Compaq said:


> meh there r limits i think to country's sizes... i find it hard to really call a dot a country, i dought it has even 1 soilder, i dunno, its just 2 small. I like to call countries those with 2 million + .. just me.


Unfortunately your criterias do not count on an official level. Luxembourg has got all amenities a country needs to have to be recognized as a state by the UN.


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## Compaq (Mar 5, 2005)

meh what if i and a few of my friends went to an island somewhere round here, is say 10 ppl enough to make a country?


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## defi (Jul 30, 2004)

Compaq said:


> meh what if i and a few of my friends went to an island somewhere round here, is say 10 ppl enough to make a country?


First, find an island which is not already occupied by a country. Good luck.


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## SHiRO (Feb 7, 2003)

schreiwalker said:


> if you're trying to actually compare, nominal gdp makes no sense.


Actually it does on a country to country basis.
Exchange rates are there for a reason you know...


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## Compaq (Mar 5, 2005)

meh countries "seperate" all the time, luxembourg was part of netherlands so ... and yea i can name a 10000 countries what simple "broke of" to make their own ...


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## Mac (Apr 7, 2005)

GlobalJoe said:


> wow!! didnt expect Ireland to be on the top five...really impressive!!



Not really, for the last 20 yrs they have been pimping off the EU money pot...but not anymore, the new east european members will be getting more and more of Irelands cash over the next decade.

I dont know what they will do then, but they will certainly start to fall down that list as they have to start paying for themselves.


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## mdude (Jul 8, 2005)

Compaq said:


> meh what if i and a few of my friends went to an island somewhere round here, is say 10 ppl enough to make a country?



Well, yes, if your country had its own:

government
laws
military
constitution
police system
tax rules

and if you get approval by the major bodies that govern countries, like the UN. Then yeah, if you work hard enough, your little island can be a country.

Oh by the way there are 115,000 members of Luxembourg's armed forces. This is a little bit more than 1 or 2 soldiers.

Is Botswana a country?


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## defi (Jul 30, 2004)

Compaq said:


> meh what if i and a few of my friends went to an island somewhere round here, is say 10 ppl enough to make a country?


According to the Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States a state must fulfill the following criterias:



wikipedia/montevideo convention said:


> The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government; and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.


So, let's assume you find an island which is not already part of a existing nation and you and your 10 friends colonize it, your chances might be good that you can call your community a 'state'.


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## Compaq (Mar 5, 2005)

^cool, haha, meh silly isnt it, if india wanted to seperate into countries of 10 ppl each, hmm, todays country list of the world would hmm say grow by 100000000000 times lo!


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## defi (Jul 30, 2004)

Clever boy. If pigs could fly, we could ride on them instead of using an airplane.


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## Compaq (Mar 5, 2005)

mdude said:


> Well, yes, if your country had its own:
> 
> government
> laws
> ...


wtf is wrong with u! thats *more than * a 1/4 of the population!


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## kucksi (Aug 8, 2004)

Compaq said:


> meh countries "seperate" all the time, luxembourg was part of netherlands so ... and yea i can name a 10000 countries what simple "broke of" to make their own ...


yeah --> "The king of the Netherlands remained head of state until 1890, when Luxembourg gained a grand duke of its own."
and what about australia? do u have your own head of state or u r still part of the UK?
(im sorry for this if u r not an aussie)


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## Mac (Apr 7, 2005)

kucksi said:


> yeah --> "The king of the Netherlands remained head of state until 1890, when Luxembourg gained a grand duke of its own."
> and what about australia? do u have your own head of state or u r still part of the UK?
> (im sorry for this if u r not an aussie)



LOL...  do you have any idea how insulted and downright pissed off any Australian is going to feel reading that...


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## Compaq (Mar 5, 2005)

*The Luxembourg Army is under civilian control*. Responsibility for defense matters is vested in the Minister of Cooperation, Humanitarian Action and Defense, Luc Frieden (since June 2004), under the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Justice, Treasure and Budget.

*Luxembourg has no navy or air force*. A 1967 law made the *army an all-volunteer force with current strength of approximately 450 professional soldiers, about 340 enlisted recruits * and 100 civilians, and a total budget of $120 million. Luxembourg has participated in the European Corps (EUROCORPS) since 1994, has contributed troops to the UNPROFOR and IFOR missions in former Yugoslavia, and participates with a small contingent in the current NATO SFOR mission in Bosnia. The Luxembourg army is integrated into the Multinational Beluga Force under Belgian command. Luxembourg has financially supported international peacekeeping missions during the 1991 Gulf War, in Rwanda and, more recently, Albania. The army also has participated in humanitarian relief missions such as setting up refugee camps for Kurds and providing emergency supplies to Albania.


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## smussuw (Feb 1, 2004)

xantarc said:


> Though UAE in some aspects-- Infant mortality rate and corruption a bit worse than Chile or Slovenia.


source?


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## gentlejunho (Aug 12, 2004)

Is Luxemburg tax free country like Gibraltar or Berludas ?


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## defi (Jul 30, 2004)

Erm. AFAIK the island of Iceland is part of the Icelandish state, isn't it?


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## Effer (Jun 9, 2005)

Compaq said:


> ^cool, haha, meh silly isnt it, if india wanted to seperate into countries of 10 ppl each, hmm, todays country list of the world would hmm say grow by 100000000000 times lo!


Thats not going to happen anytime soon! :bash:


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## polako (Apr 7, 2005)

Poland's per capita income has quadrupled since 1992(that's when it's economy resumed growth after the 2 years of economic decline after communism fell in 1989). If Poland's economy keeps on growing 4-6% as it has been, in 2020 its per capita income will be around $40,000. I think that by 2035 Poland should have per capita income levels of Western Europe's Average.


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## ZOHAR (Jul 16, 2005)

GO ISRAEL!!!!!
we are lives in desert,without oil and another resources only sands!
Israel all time in the war and can't to develope but we are in 29th place!


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## schreiwalker (May 13, 2005)

SHiRO said:


> Actually it does on a country to country basis.
> Exchange rates are there for a reason you know...


Not all exchange rates truly reflect economic conditions in a place (say, china). 

also, if you compare nominal incomes of, say, euros and pesos in US dollars, then you've distorted the original figures of each by the local market conditions of the US. And that's just assuming that everything that happens in the money market is rational and/or not distorted by, say, the purchase of billions of dollars of US currency by several Asian nations. 

anyhow, PPP seems much more reasonable, since you take the goods that lots of people have to buy every day, and see how many of those goods each individual can buy.


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## smussuw (Feb 1, 2004)

ZOHAR said:


> GO ISRAEL!!!!!
> we are lives in desert,without oil and another resources only sands!
> Israel all time in the war and can't to develope but we are in 29th place!


We are in the 23rd


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## ZOHAR (Jul 16, 2005)

smussuw said:


> We are in the 23rd


and ?what do u want from my soul?


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## hngcm (Sep 17, 2002)

Mexico, highest in Latin America.


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## skyscraper_1 (May 30, 2004)

This is what the Human development idex says about PPP or GDP

"Why is GDP per capita (PPP US$) used over GDP per capita (US$) in the HDI?
The human development index (HDI) attempts to make an assessment of 175 very diverse countries and areas, with very different price levels. To compare economic statistics across countries, the data must first be converted into a common currency. Unlike conventional exchange rates, PPP (Purchasing Power Parity) rates of exchange allow this conversion to take account of price differences between countries. GDP per capita (PPP US$) accounts for price differences between countries and therefore better reflects people's living standards. In theory, at the PPP rate, 1 PPP dollar has the same purchasing power in the domestic economy of a country as 1 US dollar has in the US economy."


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

PPP isn't perfect by any means but it is certainly an improvement on MER comparisons. 

You can't tell me that someone earning $15,000 per year in Japan, New York or Switzerland will have as good a material standard of living as someone earning $15,000 per year in Vietnam, Peru or Bulgaria.

Ideally you might have regional PPPs for larger countries, the cost of living can vary a lot within a country.

@Pottebaum

The UK economy has slowed down recently but even if this slowdown continues (which it may not) there is no reason why nominal GDP per capita can't rise above $45k. The recent unpegging of the Yuan from the dollar means that Asian central banks are going to be buying a lot less dollars and dollar based assets from the US. This combined with the twin deficits in the US could lead to a decline in the value of the dollar. So even if the UK economy continues to grow slowly in £ terms it could grow much quicker in $ terms (this applies to other countries too).

Also remember that European economies and Japan don't need to grow as quickly to maintain per capita growth as they don't have 1% per annum population growth like the US, Can, Aus etc


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## spxy (Apr 9, 2003)

Jonesy55 said:


> You can't tell me that someone earning $15,000 per year in Japan, New York or Switzerland will have as good a material standard of living as someone earning $15,000 per year in Vietnam, Peru or Bulgaria.


Well yes i can, that is where context comes into play.What exactly is there available to buy and to do in those countries compared to say Japan or the US?
lets take some examples, in the UK and a lot of europe we enjoy dirt cheap air fare around europe.I've been to Rome and back for £40.Britians take lots of holidays abroad due to cheap prices, also they own a lot of holiday homes, due to high house prices in Britian giving people lots of equity.
You could compare the price of beer in a supermarket in France to the price in Britian, and conclude that we are worse off because it cost more to buy in a supermarket in Britain.But you wold be forgeting the British culture is to drink in pubs, where in fact beer is far cheaper than in France.
There is now the internet to consider where Britians make lots of purchases from abroad , that because of the strong pound are dirt cheap for us.
Also you have to consider whether the quality of the item you are comparing is the same, a Big Mac is not in the same leauge as a burger from say the HaHa chain of pubs.You need to consider that quality is more important in some countries than quantity.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

spxy said:


> Well yes i can, that is where context comes into play.What exactly is there available to buy and to do in those countries compared to say Japan or the US?
> lets take some examples, in the UK and a lot of europe we enjoy dirt cheap air fare around europe.I've been to Rome and back for £40.Britians take lots of holidays abroad due to cheap prices, also they own a lot of holiday homes, due to high house prices in Britian giving people lots of equity.
> You could compare the price of beer in a supermarket in France to the price in Britian, and conclude that we are worse off because it cost more to buy in a supermarket in Britain.But you wold be forgeting the British culture is to drink in pubs, where in fact beer is far cheaper than in France.
> There is now the internet to consider where Britians make lots of purchases from abroad , that because of the strong pound are dirt cheap for us.
> Also you have to consider whether the quality of the item you are comparing is the same, a Big Mac is not in the same leauge as a burger from say the HaHa chain of pubs.You need to consider that quality is more important in some countries than quantity.


When calculating PPP exchange rates, economists take into account beer in pubs and supermarkets, internet purchases, air fares etc. Some countries are still much cheaper than others.

I know what you are saying about the quality issue but it doesn't neccesarily follow that products in expensive countries are higher quality than in cheaper countries. I've had curries in Thailand for 50p that were much better than my local Thai restaurant sells for £6.95. Going to the cinema or having your rubbish collected is pretty much the same experience everywhere but in some countries it costs much more than in others.

If you want to compare big macs, they are the same the world over but in some countries they are $4 in others $1.

I would much rather live on $15,000 in Thailand than in Norway.


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## spxy (Apr 9, 2003)

From an economics website
"How is PPP calculated?
*
The simplest way to calculate purchasing power parity between two countries is to compare the price of a "standard" good that is in fact identical across countries. Every year The Economist magazine publishes a light-hearted version of PPP: its "Hamburger Index" that compares the price of a McDonald's hamburger around the world. More sophisticated versions of PPP look at a large number of goods and services. One of the key problems is that people in different countries consume very different sets of goods and services, making it difficult to compare the purchasing power between countries."


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## spxy (Apr 9, 2003)

From another site

"The main reasons why PPP does not perfectly reflect standards of living are

*	PPP numbers can vary with the specific basket of goods used, making it a rough estimate.
*	Preferences and choices can vary from country to country. Goods then differ in their contribution to welfare.
*	International competitiveness is mainly affected by the exchange rate and not by PPP.
*	Differences in quality of goods are not sufficiently reflected in PPP."


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

spxy said:


> From an economics website
> "How is PPP calculated?
> *
> The simplest way to calculate purchasing power parity between two countries is to compare the price of a "standard" good that is in fact identical across countries. Every year The Economist magazine publishes a light-hearted version of PPP: its "Hamburger Index" that compares the price of a McDonald's hamburger around the world. More sophisticated versions of PPP look at a large number of goods and services. One of the key problems is that people in different countries consume very different sets of goods and services, making it difficult to compare the purchasing power between countries."


I think most organisations take into account more than the price of a hamburger when calculating PPPs. One of the reasons that people in different countries buy different combinations of goods and services is that they cost more or less than in other countries. Chicken and egg :dunno:



spxy said:


> From another site
> 
> "The main reasons why PPP does not perfectly reflect standards of living are
> 
> ...


I never said it was perfect, just better.

If you think that nominal values are a better reflection of a nations income how do you explain the fact the in 2001 Germany had a per capita GDP only 70% of the USA but in 2004 it was about about 85%. Have Germans really become that much richer in 3 years despite the well-publicised problems in the German economy compared with constantly brisk growth in the US???


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