# Which European city is most Americanized?



## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

Rail/tram map of the Birmingham area.










And the Manchester area.


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## julesstoop (Sep 11, 2002)

Mr Bricks said:


> When it comes to mindset I would nominate Stockholm and Copenhagen.


Politically many Americans would consider Scandinavian countries to be communist, or at least socialist, though.


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## Sarcasticity (May 21, 2005)

Wow, English subway system looks more complicated than the NYC subway :nuts:


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

Belgium has lot of sprawl, but not to the level of American cities.


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## manhuelofspain (Dec 1, 2010)

Madrid!? jeje

Madrid. Gran Via (1) por Fernando0o, en Flickr


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

Sarcasticity said:


> Wow, English subway system looks more complicated than the NYC subway :nuts:


Those are not "subways" - they are commuter rail systems, though not in the American sense, in the European sense.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

As a region, defenately Flanders and the northern parts of Wallonia for the sprawling detached suburbia being everywhere, looks a bit like east coast of USA. But as a city? Can't think of any city that would fit exept for maybe some Norweigian or Finn cities with their sprawl.

The Belgian version of the USA suburbia.

Main road lined with strip mall like shops and behind that detached housing:










Streetview of the main road: http://g.co/maps/nrfff
Streetview of a side street: http://g.co/maps/k7p7r














Streetview of the main road: http://g.co/maps/mstc5
Streetview of a side street: http://g.co/maps/9c4j3


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

What is frequency of those British suburban rail networks?


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

LtBk said:


> What is frequency of those British suburban rail networks?


Not easily defined. Depends on the line very much as most of these lines are actually part of the National Rail Network rather than the local transport network and so they are awarded to private operators on a franchise basis. Some branch lines may only get a service a few times a day, however, most lines around large cities get a 30 minute service with interlining giving more frequent services quite often. 

The problem with the networks are the prices. They tend to be quite hellish compared to the rest of Europe.


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

The UK is a good example of rail privatization gone bad.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

We had these threads several times. Later on we would a "Which Asian city is the most European" and so on.


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## Jeanbonnau (Apr 9, 2010)

manhuelofspain said:


> Madrid!? jeje
> 
> Madrid. Gran Via (1) por Fernando0o, en Flickr


J'aime bien l'immeuble rouge et celui de gauche aussi. Ils rappellent les vieux gratte-ciels de New York des années 1920-1930.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

joshsam said:


> Main road lined with strip mall like shops and behind that detached housing:


This looks very similar to Northeast US suburbia indeed. Probably pre-WW2 though.


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## Atomicus (Aug 23, 2011)

manhuelofspain said:


> Madrid!? jeje
> 
> Madrid. Gran Via (1) por Fernando0o, en Flickr



Those buildings may look like those classical ones from New York but I don't think that'd make Madrid an americanized city at all.

I'd say some cities from Southern Spain may be closer to look americanized since a lot of them are very car-oriented... But still, I wouldn't say we have americanized cities here...


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

Xusein said:


> This looks very similar to Northeast US suburbia indeed. Probably pre-WW2 though.


They look kinda like streetcar suburbs.


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## dydyusa (Jun 22, 2009)

The french riviera ! Car (4x4) oriented area and big sprawl..


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

LtBk said:


> The UK is a good example of rail privatization gone bad.


In some ways yes, but in other ways no. Rail use had been in a steady decline for several decades before privatization since when passenger numbers have shot up considerably. 










Spiraling costs have been an issue as was track safety and maintenance before the infrastructure was effectively renationalized. The network is much better and more reliable now than it was 5-10 years ago imo but there are still improvements that need to be made.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

LtBk said:


> What is frequency of those British suburban rail networks?


Anything from 2 to 10 trains per hour depending on the route.

An annual pass to cover all bus, tram and train travel over all zones of those networks in Birmingham and Manchester is around £1,000 (EUR 1,200 USD 1,600) with cheaper options if you only need some zones or are under 21 or only need to travel after 0930 or only want bus and tram not train etc etc....


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## Mr Bricks (May 6, 2005)

julesstoop said:


> Politically many Americans would consider Scandinavian countries to be communist, or at least socialist, though.


That doesn't reflect reality though, but only the poor state of the American education system.


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

These threads are boring, you people have debated over this probably over a hundred times since I joined this site. You could at least change locations a bit:

- Which African city is more East-Asian looking
- Which south American city looks more middle eastern

This would be fun to read at least


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## Mr Bricks (May 6, 2005)

Bah. Cities outside of Europe tend to all look the same these days.


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

Really?


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## Ecological (Mar 19, 2009)

Birmingham is a very small scale industrialised Detroit in many ways. 

Still ... what's more American then a ridiculous road interchanges.

Birminghams spaghetti junction. 

Gravelly Hill Interchange, nicknamed the Spaghetti Junction, is the 6th junction of the M6 motorway, where it joins the A38 Aston Expressway in Birmingham, UK. 

The name Spaghetti Junction was coined by Roy Smith, a journalist from the Birmingham Evening Mail in the 1970s. 

The areal view of the junction sure tells us why it is called the Spaghetti Junction.

Spanning an impressive 30 acres, the junction serves 18 routes and includes 4 km of slip roads. Across 6 different levels, there are 559 concrete columns, reaching up to 24.4 m in height.

The engineers had to elevate 13.5 miles of the motorway to accommodate 2 railway lines, 3 canals, and 2 rivers. It's the most complicated junction
in United Kingdom.


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## SaysItAsItIs (Apr 26, 2012)

Galro said:


> ^^ How come so large cities in such a rich country who come up with the idea of subways in the first place, don't have subways?


The UK isn't that rich, at least not by German or Scandinavian standards. It doesn't have the money nor the resources to start drilling massive holes through the ground and laying new tracks when some would say it can barely afford to run its current infrastructure to a decent standard.


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## Ecological (Mar 19, 2009)

SaysItAsItIs said:


> The UK isn't that rich, at least not by German or Scandinavian standards. It doesn't have the money nor the resources to start drilling massive holes through the ground and laying new tracks when some would say it can barely afford to run its current infrastructure to a decent standard.


It's not that rich? 

It has plenty of money and resources. The problem is the topography, demographics and democratic issues (planning policies etc.)

Birmingham has over £3billion worth of infrastructure investment under way or due to start. 

The timescale however is affected by the huge amount of planning conditions, laws public consultations etc.


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## SaysItAsItIs (Apr 26, 2012)

Ecological said:


> It's not that rich?
> 
> It has plenty of money and resources. The problem is the topography, demographics and democratic issues (planning policies etc.)
> 
> ...


No it isn't. It has much more debt than the Scandinavian countries, and per capita income is far lower than in Scandinavian countries or Germany.

It would be far less of a financial stretch for Sweden, Norway or Germany to build subways in every major city than it would be for the UK, particularly during this period of significant government cuts.

If you think the UK is the richest country in Europe, you're absolutely deluded. The UK is in a major reccession far worse than anything the rest of Northern European is experiencing.

I find it funny how that Norwegian views the UK as a really rich country, yet the truth is Norway is far richer than the UK and has far more money to go spending on infrastructure projects.

In fact, UK roads are a mess. A new road hasn't been built in the UK on any major scale for decades. Even many roads are absolutely full of potholes, and every now and again they get patched up, but for the most part they are very rarely fully repaved, so they are often in a continous state of disrepair and being continuously patched up.

Is that lack of money, or just completely ineffecient local governments?


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## Dragoona (Mar 26, 2012)

SaysItAsItIs said:


> The UK isn't that rich, at least not by German or Scandinavian standards. It doesn't have the money nor the resources to start drilling massive holes through the ground and laying new tracks when some would say it can barely afford to run its current infrastructure to a decent standard.


Another ignorant dumb dumb:lol: wtf is crossrail costing £20 billion,the huge transport infrastructure projects including metrolink in manchester,New terminals at heathrow,m25 widening,new tramways,underground tube lines expansion.IDIOT:bash:


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## Dragoona (Mar 26, 2012)

:nuts:


SaysItAsItIs said:


> No it isn't. It has much more debt than the Scandinavian countries, and per capita income is far lower than in Scandinavian countries or Germany.
> 
> It would be far less of a financial stretch for Sweden, Norway or Germany to build subways in every major city than it would be for the UK, particularly during this period of significant government cuts.
> 
> ...


 what bs...norway? its too small to need a subway and is only wealthy because of oil.The UK has the 6th/7th largest economy in the world, hardly 'poor' you ignorant numpty.


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## Ecological (Mar 19, 2009)

SaysItAsItIs said:


> No it isn't. It has much more debt than the Scandinavian countries, and per capita income is far lower than in Scandinavian countries or Germany.
> 
> It would be far less of a financial stretch for Sweden, Norway or Germany to build subways in every major city than it would be for the UK, particularly during this period of significant government cuts.
> 
> ...


See you've been banned again. :lol:

Anyway - 

Cross Rail - £15billion
HS2 - £17billion (phase 1)

£32billion in two schemes. that doesn't even touch the roads or other metro's etc.

The problems you might see may be due to the huge amount of traffic the UK experiences. Probably drive more than any other nation. 

*Some stats:
*
On average each for every 1 kilometer of road in the UK 113 million passenger vehicle kilometers are travelled annually. 

Comparisons: Germany 47 million. France 37 million, USA 36 million.

UK's roads carry more freight than any other nation per kilometer only beaten by Japan. 

£350Billion will need to be invested between now and 2030 to keep up with the demand of public transport and the road network. 

£47b on air
£124b on rail
£180b on road

Britain's investment is the largest in Europe in terms of infrastructure. Privately investment in infrastructure slaughters all other nations in Europe. COMBINED.


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## Galro (Aug 9, 2010)

Dragoona said:


> :nuts:
> what bs...norway? its too small to need a subway and is only wealthy because of oil.The UK has the 6th/7th largest economy in the world, hardly 'poor' you ignorant numpty.


You claim other are ignorant then you spout this? A: Norway got a subway system (albeit only one sadly) and we need more of it, not less. B: Norway is not only rich thanks to the oil. We are rich_er_ thanks to the oil. That's different.


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## Dragoona (Mar 26, 2012)

Galro said:


> You claim other are ignorant then you spout this? A: Norway got a subway system (albeit only one sadly) and we need more of it, not less. B: Norway is not only rich thanks to the oil. We are rich_er_ thanks to the oil. That's different.


eh? So before you discovered the oil you were rich..were you ****! you owe all your wealth to location not ingenuity


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^ give it up SaysItAsItIs


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## Ecological (Mar 19, 2009)

Galro said:


> You claim other are ignorant then you spout this? A: Norway got a subway system (albeit only one sadly) and we need more of it, not less. B: Norway is not only rich thanks to the oil. We are rich_er_ thanks to the oil. That's different.


I think he was getting at being Norways main financial muscle. No country relies on one thing. 

One thing people don't tend to appreciate is that the Norway and the UK are two of the top 6 most generous countries per person (Norway more so)

The UK gives £10,560,000,000.00 a year.
Norway's public give £1,510,000.000.00 a year. 

The UK also gives the 3rd largest amount to Humanitarian needs alongside the EU (which they also apply to) and the US.

Norway (tiny in comparison to places like Germany, are 10th) which is quite amazing. 

Norway has the highest income per capita in the world with UK 7th.


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## Galro (Aug 9, 2010)

Dragoona said:


> eh? So before you discovered the oil you were rich..were you ****! you owe all your wealth to location not ingenuity


We where at about the same wealth level as Sweden. And Norway was heavily industrialized prior to the oil. 

Here are couple of links I found which compare the gpd of the Sweden and Norway during the 20th century. 
http://www2.druid.dk/conferences/viewpaper.php?id=732&cf=8
http://www.nbp.pl/konferencje/radisson/Mowcy/krantz/krantz_paper.pdf

But by all means, we can resort to trowing insults at each other instead as that seems to be your kind of "facts".


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

Jonesy55 said:


> Anything from 2 to 10 trains per hour depending on the route.
> 
> An annual pass to cover all bus, tram and train travel over all zones of those networks in Birmingham and Manchester is around £1,000 (EUR 1,200 USD 1,600) with cheaper options if you only need some zones or are under 21 or only need to travel after 0930 or only want bus and tram not train etc etc....


Thanks for the info.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Ecological said:


> Norway has the highest income per capita in the world with UK 7th.


The IMF has Norway in 3rd behind Luxembourg and Qatar. The UK is 22nd behind Iceland, but ahead of New Zealand. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita


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## dydyusa (Jun 22, 2009)

Country vs Country ! I'm surprised, it's not GB vs France ^^


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

I'm not sure what the stink is. Norway is one of the richest nations in the world. The IMF is a credible source. :dunno:


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

Ecological said:


> The problems you might see may be due to the huge amount of traffic the UK experiences. Probably drive more than any other nation.
> 
> Some stats:
> 
> ...


Doesn't that just mean we don't have enough roads for the population and traffic levels? :dunno:


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Yes. It just means that other countries have built more road infrastructure in relation to demand. It doesn't mean that the British drive more.

*Top 10 Nations by Length of Road Network (km)*

01 United States-----6,506,204	
02 China--------------3,860,800	
03 India--------------3,320,410	
04 Brazil-------------1,751,868	
05 Japan-------------1,210,251	
06 Canada-----------1,042,300	
07 Russia--------------982,000	
08 France--------------951,200	
09 Australia------------818,356
10 Spain ---------------681,298

16 United Kingdom----394,428


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_road_network_size


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