# The growth of skylines



## Nyumba (Sep 3, 2013)

The African cities that are building most new skyscrapers now are Nairobi in Kenya and Addis Abeba in Ethiopia

Cairo's new Administrative City might boom in that sense too


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## LivinAWestLife (Aug 24, 2019)

After doing a bit of research I'm going to make a hypothesis. I believe the only cities where their "skyline points" were lower than say 20, 30, 40 years ago are all located in the UK.

The United Kingdom conducted large-scale building of public-housing tower estates in the 1960s along with other countries, but it was the only country in which they were built to such a major extent. These were built far away from the city centre, and so did not form a "skyline" impression on many people. In addition, they often had bland designs, poor maintenance, and a host of social problems, so I am not too bothered that they are being demolished. 

Cities such as Manchester, Birmingham and Leeds have recovered from their loss of these blocks and their skylines are as big as ever. However, many cities like Glasgow, Blackpool, Hull etc. have demolished more floors than they have constructed since then.


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## LivinAWestLife (Aug 24, 2019)

Does anyone have any idea why Spain slowed down construction of high-rises dramatically in the 1990s? I'm seeing this trend for almost every Spanish city (Zaragoza, Alicante, Murcia), with only Madrid and Bilbao (and Barcelona to an extent) really bucking this trend. In fact, Spain's property market was doing well in this period, so what happened?

Another thing I've observed is that Spain and Portugal have avoided the skyscraper boom enjoyed elsewhere in Europe in the 2010s. (Another country who avoided this was Greece). This was definitely in part due to the 2009 recession, which is a shame, really.


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## KlausDiggy (Jan 21, 2013)

Has Greece ever built a high-rise building again since 1990? Most of them still date from the 70s.
It is very sad


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## Kiwieh (Jul 4, 2020)

looks really cool, which cities are you planning to do next?


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## LivinAWestLife (Aug 24, 2019)

I'm actually planning to record all cities with major skylines, but only do it by decade since this will save me a whole bunch of time, plus many cities outside of NA have bad data on when their buildings were built, and some like China and Iran don't even have complete building info.


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## LivinAWestLife (Aug 24, 2019)

Another question that has always intrigued me: Why doesn't Cairo (and Egypt as a whole) build more skyscrapers?

A hugely populated metro area, incredibly dense, surrounded by other densely populated metropolises, with limited space to expand (the Nile Valley doesn't go on forever). A rising economy, a population in need for housing, and a major centre of the Arab world, which historically likes to build skylines (save for Oman). Why does Cairo have so few tall buildings as it is? Even when they build skyscrapers, they don't build it in Cairo. No, the Egyptian government decides to move the capital instead, and build them there.

The 2010s saw major sub-saharan economies develop their skylines, including countries much poorer than Egypt, such as Ethiopia, as well as Northern African cities like Algiers, Oran and Casablanca. Cairo does not have a single building above 150m, and the Iconic Tower will be located quite far from Cairo's city centre. Is it really cheaper for Egypt to keep building new cities in the desert, requiring intense engineering, energy and irrigation, than to just build up higher? (At least New Alamein City is getting some nice high-rises though)

Just why?


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## mw123 (Oct 23, 2009)

LivinAWestLife said:


> If anyone has any ideas about cities which currently have small-ish skylines now but will become immensely bigger, feel free to let me know!


The skyline with the biggest potential in Australia atm is definitely Parramatta. Just a decade ago it was a small suburban centre with not a single building over 100m. Blue is complete and yellow is U/C. There are many more towers that are proposed to be built before 2030.


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## Peter1980 (May 14, 2019)

Not to mention the 4 100m+ proposals that were approved this week! Three of which being 150m+


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## LivinAWestLife (Aug 24, 2019)

Another city bucking the trend besides Cairo (who no one has provided an answer of why there aren't any more skyscrapers yet, btw) is Rio. Most cities in Brazil have their tallest buildings built recently, but none of Rio's 20 tallest buildings were built this decade. It also only has 1 building above 150 metres. A very strange exception for a large city in an upper-middle country. Are there height restrictions in Rio or something?


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## LivinAWestLife (Aug 24, 2019)

TBH I am still upset at how some British cities are so insistent on demolishing tower blocks. They are the only cities in the world who have decided to grow SHORTER, on _purpose_, and replacing them with outdated housing estates.

Surely it would have been cheaper to refurbish and renovate the tower blocks than to demolish and redevelop them?

Other European cities like Paris have similar housing types in some arrondissements, but they've decided to refurbish them instead.

Demolished tower blocks should be replaced by taller, mixed-use, high-quality apartments.


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## LivinAWestLife (Aug 24, 2019)

After a lot of research and data-gathering on a still-unfinished project, I have enough data to present the World's biggest skylines per decade! It's very interesting to explore the proliferation of high-rise buildings and skyscrapers, and I'll share my data once my work has been complete.

Each city's "skyline points" are calculated similarly to the posts above: Each city's points is the sum of the points generated by each tall building. The number of points for each building is the a tenth of the number of points, cubed, or more precisely, (Floors/10)^3. Only buildings with 10 or more stories count.

Of course, this measure does not take into account the footprint of the buildings, the aesthetics of the buildings, extra architectural height, how spread apart the buildings are, or how dense the buildings are. It is hard to believe, still, that Seoul registers more points than New York, but that's what Emporis' data tells me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ - If a city (like Seoul) tends to have a huge number of apartment buildings between 10-30 stories, not tall enough to be a skyscraper, they have a very inflated point score.

The points can be read either as "size of skyline", "magnitude of skyline", "dispersion of tall buildings", or "tendancy to build tall buildings". Points are for city limits. Essentially, twice the number of identical buildings: twice the points, but doubling the height of all buildings will increase the points by a factor of 8.

Again, note that Chinese cities have tons of missing information. I'm certain Guangzhou and Shanghai could've appeared in the top 10 if I could gather all information on tall buildings about them.

So, here it is!

*2020:*

RankCityPoints#1Hong Kong285,444.72#2Seoul143,137.95#3New York City99,322.60#4Shenzhen91,249.89#5Moscow74,613.19#6Singapore69,660.63#7Chongqing67,910.58#8São Paulo65,029.86#9Dubai63,605.81#10Kuala Lumpur51,921.41

*2010:*

#1Hong Kong245,932.10#2Seoul101,092.35#3New York City73,962.60#4Moscow50,330.17#5Singapore46,484.16#6São Paulo35,454.63#7Chicago33,817.19#8Chongqing29,877.70#9Tokyo27,930.09#10Dubai27,273.98

*2000:*

#1Hong Kong168,815.00#2New York City65,080.62#3Seoul41,013.53#4Moscow31,029.02#5Singapore29,224.37#6Chicago24,607.83#7Tokyo11,869.42#8Bangkok11,654.47#9Toronto9,895.33#10São Paulo9,777.96

*1990:*

#1Hong Kong77,744.39#2New York City60,662.52#3Moscow23,042.16#4Chicago22,903.70#5Singapore10,183.92#6Seoul9,208.47#7Toronto8,489.16#8London6,155.59#9Honolulu5,678.52#10Houston5,490.90

*1980:*

#1New York City48,317.09#2Hong Kong19,366.21#3Chicago16,625.62#4Moscow12,782.41#5London6,067.24#6Singapore6,002.41#7Toronto5,981.68#8Paris4,771.67#9Honolulu4,269.45#10São Paulo3,011.86

*1970:*

#1New York City35,069.90#2Chicago10,210.33#3London4,597.91#4Moscow4,173.10#5Hong Kong2,446.43#6Toronto1,911.87#7Montreál1,778.42#8Philadelphia1,761.10#9São Paulo1,544.74#10San Francisco1,359.49

*1960:*

#1New York City22,648.69#2Chicago4,274.11#3Philadelphia1,152.78#4São Paulo1,004.51#5Detroit859.32#6Pittsburgh732.36#7San Francisco561.89#8Dallas490.67#9Los Angeles461.23#10Moscow390.82

*1950:*

#1New York City18,412.98#2Chicago3,362.34#3Philadelphia897.76#4Detroit779.11#5Pittsburgh563.43#6San Francisco485.31#7Los Angeles382.05#8St. Louis319.38#9Cleveland301.98#10Cincinnati301.88

*1940:*

#1New York City17,348.52#2Chicago3,332.59#3Philadelphia891.64#4Detroit777.11#5Pittsburgh561.70#6San Francisco454.30#7Los Angeles337.98#8St. Louis315.64#9Cleveland305.56#10Cincinnati293.69

*1930:*

#1New York City12,638.55#2Chicago3,188.75#3Detroit771.02#4Philadelphia736.55#5San Francisco441.32#6Pittsburgh376.61#7Los Angeles311.54#8Cleveland297.58#9St. Louis274.81#10Boston199.93

*1920:*

#1New York City3,957.32#2Chicago643.67#3Philadelphia216.29#4Pittsburgh195.99#5San Francisco134.28#6Detroit115.11#7St. Louis103.84#8Boston94.93#9Cincinnati79.36#10Seattle77.09

*1910:*

#1New York City1,869.84#2Chicago352.77#3Pittsburgh151.93#4Philadelphia109.38#5San Francisco95.14#6St. Louis63.40#7Boston42.54#8Cincinnati38.83#9Cleveland34.72#10Kansas City24.09

*1900:*

#1New York City417.58#2Chicago161.14#3Philadelphia47.94#4San Francisco27.14#5St. Louis18.87#6Boston18.38#7Pittsburgh16.28#8Minneapolis9.18#9Cleveland8.90#10Buffalo8.26

I think it's very interesting to note that before 1960 all the top skylines are American.
I'd like to point out that the 10th largest skyline in 2020 (Kuala Lumpur) can be said to be 160 times larger than the 10th largest skyline in 1960 (Detroit). That's insane!


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## Jay (Oct 7, 2004)

LivinAWestLife said:


> Again, note that Chinese cities have tons of missing information. I'm certain Guangzhou and Shanghai could've appeared in the top 10 if I could gather all information on tall buildings about them.


The 2020 list looks really off to me, not only should Shanghai, Guangzhou (and probably Tokyo and Chongqing) be there, but no way Singapore or Moscow is ahead of Chicago (which I think should also should be on the list). Sao Paulo has an insane sea of mid-rises but isn't a skyscraper city at all.

I think a combination of the number of 100-150+ meter buildings + 2-400 meter buildings should determine a cities skyscraper worth.

These would be my top 10 by 2030: 

1. Shenzhen, China
2. New York City, USA
3. Dubai, UAE
4. Shanghai, China
5. Guangzhou, China

6. Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
7. Hong Kong, China
8. Chicago, USA
9. Tokyo, Japan
10. Chongqing, China


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## LivinAWestLife (Aug 24, 2019)

This is why I'm also working on a list just for 50 floor+ buildings. I already mentioned why Shanghai and Guangzhou aren't there (poor data). I should point out that Chicago was on the list in every decade before 2020.

Singapore and Moscow have tons of apartments above 10 stories that really inflate the number, similar to Seoul but on a smaller scale. Don't forget Moscow's skyscrapers are all really tall as well.



Jay said:


> The 2020 list looks really off to me, not only should Shanghai, Guangzhou (and probably Tokyo and Chongqing) be there, but no way Singapore or Moscow is ahead of Chicago (which I think should also should be on the list). Sao Paulo has an insane sea of mid-rises but isn't a skyscraper city at all.
> 
> I think a combination of the number of 100-150+ meter buildings + 2-400 meter buildings should determine a cities skyscraper worth.


The list is solely based off floor count and data, and aesthetics unfortunately can't be quantified so yeah.


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## LivinAWestLife (Aug 24, 2019)

If I only take into account buildings with 50 stories or more, here is what the point totals look like, for 2020:


#1Hong Kong51,961.72#2Dubai36,030.03#3New York City31,136.44#4Shenzhen27,056.71#5Chicago17,724.94#6Wuhan16,000.21#7Mumbai13,717.96#8Guangzhou13,510.72#9Kuala Lumpur10,998.37#10Shanghai10,322.02

Busan just misses it with 9409.607 points, and then Toronto at 9,351.62. In fact, with this measurement Busan scores higher than Seoul.

Since each floor is at least 3 stories this list would include all skyscrapers as defined by CTBUH (150m+). Chinese cities show up here since it is unlikely that a building with more than 50 stories would go unnoticed by CTBUH and Emporis both. In fact, 4 out of 10 of the cities are Chinese, and all except for NY and Chicago are Asian.

I think this measurement more accurately reflects how large a skyline is perceived on a first glance/from the outside. I made the calculations to gauge both how large skylines are as well as how much cities tend to build high-rise buildings (which may not be skyscrapers).


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## LivinAWestLife (Aug 24, 2019)

It is quite frustrating that the country with the biggest skylines (China) also has so much missing information about its apartment buildings. An easy way to see this is if I calculate per-capita figures.

If I ever publish this method of measuring skylines, I hope I may encourage Chinese cities or citizens to calculate and publish their _actual_ skyline points. Honestly, there's a chance Guangzhou or Shenzhen has already surpassed Hong Kong, but the database doesn't reflect that.

Edit: I hadn't done Busan since I posted the top 10 post. I figured it wouldn't make its way into top 10. 

It ended up being 4th.

The fact that South Korean cities end up this high is indicative that Chinese cities would score much higher if all of their data were available. For some reason, SK cities have really good info on Emporis.


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## KillerZavatar (Jun 22, 2010)

^^
the real problem is that collecting data on buildings usually also is accompanied by some kind of geographical data to make it complete. Publishing geographical data in china is highly illegal and can land you in jail, so I understand why anyone would be careful about this data. This is also why I don't see computer generated buildings collected by drones and plane footage to be widely publicized anytime soon. It is kind of unfortunate and the only hope is that Baidu or Tencent will do something like what Google did with Government guidance as in use the governmental encryption system of distortion on the gps data and still create 3D maps. Because, let us be honest, only an AI could count the number of highrises in china.


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## LivinAWestLife (Aug 24, 2019)

Yeah, its sad. No idea why the CCP even makes publishing geographical data illegal. Perhaps an AI will be developed someday to scan Chinese cities and gather info about their buildings.

Or a future CCP or non-CCP China could relax that law. I could estimate the number of buildings from Google Earth, but that will take a long, long, time, even for a single city.


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## Kadzman (Aug 10, 2015)

I think some data can be gleaned here for cross reference:








Top 10 skyscraper cities fully updated


- Completed constructions 3. Shenzhen's (previously 235) (Current correct data 268) increases with 33 and has 92 skycrapers above 200m and 2nd placed in that category. update + 33 - Under construction (dose not include proposed, approved or on hold) - Current correct data for all Under C...




www.skyscrapercity.com













# of 100m+ Buildings Completed, U/C, Proposed


I tried compiling a data base for 200m+ buildings with detail about every single building, but it was too daunting. Perhaps a table of the # of 100m+ buildings completed, U/C, and proposed would give a rough idea of how cities stack up quantitatively. Let's keep it to roof heights as it's more...




www.skyscrapercity.com


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## elliot (Dec 19, 2003)

mw123 said:


> The skyline with the biggest potential in Australia atm is definitely Parramatta. Just a decade ago it was a small suburban centre with not a single building over 100m. Blue is complete and yellow is U/C. There are many more towers that are proposed to be built before 2030.
> 
> View attachment 513690


I don't know about Parramatta (impressive growth there), but the SkyscraperCenter data is completely out of date for suburban *Mississauga*.

*Missing project data includes:*
1. Exchange District - 232m and 201m - u/c/excavation
2. Kariya Gate 1 & 2 - 214m and 185m - proposed
3. Living Arts 172m proposed

4. Plus *36 u/c and proposed* talls from *100m to 160m *lol.

Here's the comparison data for *Mississauga and Paramatta *they offer . Just add* 40 100m+ projects *to Missie's list I guess. Special props to M3 u/c @* 260 metres *









SkyscraperCentre


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## LivinAWestLife (Aug 24, 2019)

Don't worry! By the time 2030 comes around I'll have a new figure for Mississauga. It's showing amazing levels of growth.

FYI, Mississauga increased from 1500 points in 2010 to 3200 now - I'm betting it will hit 5,000 by 2030. That's only a bit less than Toronto 1980.


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## KillerZavatar (Jun 22, 2010)

LivinAWestLife said:


> Yeah, its sad. No idea why the CCP even makes publishing geographical data illegal.


pretty sure it is national security. Making maps illegal makes it more difficult to assume precise locations of infrastructure and military equipment that would be target in any armed conflict.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

LivinAWestLife said:


> Don't worry! By the time 2030 comes around I'll have a new figure for Mississauga. It's showing amazing levels of growth.
> 
> FYI, Mississauga increased from 1500 points in 2010 to 3200 now - I'm betting it will hit 5,000 by 2030. That's only a bit less than Toronto 1980.


Vaughan is another 'Toronto' cluster that has a lot coming down the pipe. Like Mississauga, Vaughan doesn't show up in Toronto numbers as they aren't part of the 'City of Toronto'. 5 years ago, almost all tall buildings in metro Toronto were in the City of Toronto. With both Mississauga and Vaughan growing rapidly, that's increasingly not the case.

It bears mentioning that there are 5 jurisdictions in metro Vancouver with a significant number of tall buildings going up: Vancouver, Burnaby, Surrey, Coquitlam, and New Westminster. On most sites if you click on Vancouver, it will spit out data for the City of Vancouver instead of metro Vancouver.

In some cases you'll get very different numbers when you look at metro instead of city. I think Manila is like that. The inventory for Metro Manila is MUCH higher than the inventory for the City of Manila. It can get unwieldy to consider metro limits instead of city limits so I understand why you went with City Proper data instead.


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## LivinAWestLife (Aug 24, 2019)

Oh, I understand that! I've already attached the urban area to each city proper in my list - as you said, Vancouver and Toronto notably have many different skylines in their suburbs. The most extreme case of this is Manila, of course, but Tel Aviv also applies here.

Vancouver has the city proper, Burnaby, Coquitlam, New Westminster, UEL, Surrey, as well as North and West Vancouver with their own skylines. Toronto has Mississauga, Vaughan, Brampton and Hamilton - all with decent skylines.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

That said, well done. It's a ton of work putting stuff like that together. I tried doing a 100m+ building count a number of years ago and I ended up swamped trying to keep it up to date. It relied on contributions from SSC members and then I had to vet everything to ensure the integrity of the data. But as I was saying, well done.


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## Kiwieh (Jul 4, 2020)

I was quite bored today, so decided to try your formula and calculate points for Tel Aviv.










I also included the years 2021, 2022, 2023 so we can see the amount of points the current U/C projects would give.
Tel Aviv skyline started booming at around 2010, when it had 3400 points, at 2020 it reached the 9000 points, more than doubling itself in the last decade.

This puts it with cities such as melbourne and london, one of the reasons for this might be the high number of residential high rises Tel Aviv has, especially in the outer, more newer neighborhoods.
at the end of the day it stacks and get to thousends of points.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

In your 10 storey Top 10, I noticed Toronto dropped out of the Top 10 in 2010 and 2020. How far out of the Top 10 was it? I count 2,257 buildings in the City of Toronto that are 11 storeys or more. Does that roughly correspond with what you used?


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## LivinAWestLife (Aug 24, 2019)

@Kiwieh That's impressive work! Did you use 2.5 or 3 for the exponential? I calculated 16,265 points for the entire Tel Aviv metro area.

I included Azor, Bat Yam, Beer Yakov, Bnei Brak, Ganei Tikva, Givatayim, Herzliya, Holon, Kiryat Ono, Lod, Or Yehuda Petah Tikva, Ramat Gan, Ramat HaSharon, Ramla, Rehovot, Rishon LeZion, and Yehud (quite a mouthful!). The city itself is only a third of it, at 5,912, while Tel Aviv + Ramat Gan (the "main" skyline) would be at 8,000.

Measuring yearly growth for every urban area would take a lot of time, but from what I've gathered the suburbs have only begun to build tall this decade. For Tel Aviv itself, the number increased from 2,285.97 (adjusted for unknown buildings) to 5,912.17 - doubling it. The metro area, in line with the graph, has grown even faster than that.


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## LivinAWestLife (Aug 24, 2019)

isaidso said:


> In your 10 storey Top 10, I noticed Toronto dropped out of the Top 10 in 2010 and 2020. How far out of the Top 10 was it? I count 2,257 buildings in the City of Toronto that are 11 storeys or more. Does that roughly correspond with what you used?


It was back in 2000, and Toronto _did_ grow very fast even in 2000-2010, but I guess cities in developing countries grew even faster. In any case, it ranks #23, and is one of the _very few_ developed cities in North America post a growth rate of over 100%.

I have 2577 existing buildings in Toronto proper with 10 or more stories, and 2385 with 11 or more. That's pretty close to your figure. I took into U/C buildings that would be finished by 2020, which comes out to 53 additional buildings. 

I'm very interested in doing a yearly graph for both Toronto and Tel Aviv, but that'll have to wait.


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## Kiwieh (Jul 4, 2020)

LivinAWestLife said:


> @Hebrewtext That's impressive work! Did you use 2.5 or 3 for the exponential? I calculated 16,265 points for the entire Tel Aviv metro area.
> 
> I included Azor, Bat Yam, Beer Yakov, Bnei Brak, Ganei Tikva, Givatayim, Herzliya, Holon, Kiryat Ono, Lod, Or Yehuda Petah Tikva, Ramat Gan, Ramat HaSharon, Ramla, Rehovot, Rishon LeZion, and Yehud (quite a mouthful!). The city itself is only a third of it, at 5,912, while Tel Aviv + Ramat Gan (the "main" skyline) would be at 8,000.
> 
> Measuring yearly growth for every urban area would take a lot of time, but from what I've gathered the suburbs have only begun to build tall this decade. For Tel Aviv itself, the number increased from 2,285.97 (adjusted for unknown buildings) to 5,912.17 - doubling it. The metro area, in line with the graph, has grown even faster than that.


 you actually tagged the wrong person, im the one who sent the post.

I might have missed some of the smaller ones on your list, even i as someone who lives in the suburbs of Tel Aviv really dont know all of them lol.

16k points in 2020? thats way more than i thought, or maybe you included under construction projects aswell?
anyway, i would love to see the graph for Tel Aviv metro if you could send it.


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## LivinAWestLife (Aug 24, 2019)

Kiwieh said:


> you actually tagged the wrong person, im the one who sent the post.
> 
> I might have missed some of the smaller ones on your list, even i as someone who lives in the suburbs of Tel Aviv really dont know all of them lol.
> 
> ...


Silly me, how embarrassing :/ you two Israelis have been quite active on the forum, I'm sorry I've got it mixed up!

Anyway, yeah I did include U/C projects but only those that are projected to be finished by 2020.


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## Hebrewtext (Aug 18, 2004)

Gush Dan - Wikipedia
more than 40 municipalities, including Netanya and Ashdod.


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## Kiwieh (Jul 4, 2020)

LivinAWestLife said:


> Silly me, how embarrassing :/ you two Israelis have been quite active on the forum, I'm sorry I've got it mixed up!
> 
> Anyway, yeah I did include U/C projects but only those that are projected to be finished by 2020.


 dw, its ok 

i probably missed something then, no way 4-5 small towns would make a 7k points different. 

anyway, can you post the graph?




Hebrewtext said:


> Gush Dan - Wikipedia
> more than 40 municipalities


oh god, it gives me such a pain watching this, i hope they will merge atleast the inner core at some point.


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## LivinAWestLife (Aug 24, 2019)

Very exponential, much wow

In all seriousness, Israel is an outlier among high-income countries in how fast its skylines are growing. (Jerusalem will get one soon!) Construction really picked up pace around the turn of the millenium, and has accelerated for this decade. The jump from 2019 to 2020 is probably not as realistic as some of these U/C projects will undoubtedly be pushed further back due to the pandemic. I would be happy if Tel Aviv's skyline continued to grow at this pace for the foreseeable future, even linearly. Its demographics look promising.

Side note - a lot of points come from 10-20 story buildings in farm settlements in the suburbs around Tel Aviv.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Jay said:


> These would be my top 10 by 2030:
> 
> 1. Shenzhen, China
> 2. New York City, USA
> ...


I seem to downgrade Hong Kong too and often wondered why. Its skyline has everything going for it: height, scale, layout, quality, setting, etc. Intuitively, it should be 1st. I suspect I put it lower because it doesn't change much so I get tired looking at it. Still, I have trouble putting it any lower than 4th. I suppose it could be 7th in 2030 if it doesn't grow much.


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## Kiwieh (Jul 4, 2020)

LivinAWestLife said:


> View attachment 654344
> 
> Very exponential, much wow
> 
> ...


I think the main reason for Israel being an outlier is the fact it is one of the most dense countries in the western world, and it has a very high birth rate which means there will always be a huge demand for residential buildings, which also explains why alot of points come from 10-20 story buildings in the suburbs, thats basically the standard for building new neigborhoods in Israel, this trend will definitely continue.

It would be very interesting to see how Tel Aviv will grow in 2020-2030, if there would be no delays due to covid, the amount of 150m+ buildings will almost double itself by 2024, from 36 to around 70.

also, how far out Tel Aviv metro from the top 10? and, do you think it would enter the top 10 at some point?


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## Hebrewtext (Aug 18, 2004)

there are more cities part of the metropolitan area :
Netanya , Ashdod ,Raanana, Kfar saba ,Givaat shmueal , Yavne, Modiin, Lod, Rosh Haayin and more.

that will bring Tel Aviv metro to some 20,000-25,000 points.



LivinAWestLife said:


> @Kiwieh That's impressive work! Did you use 2.5 or 3 for the exponential? I calculated 16,265 points for the entire Tel Aviv metro area.
> 
> I included Azor, Bat Yam, Beer Yakov, Bnei Brak, Ganei Tikva, Givatayim, Herzliya, Holon, Kiryat Ono, Lod, Or Yehuda Petah Tikva, Ramat Gan, Ramat HaSharon, Ramla, Rehovot, Rishon LeZion, and Yehud (quite a mouthful!). The city itself is only a third of it, at 5,912, while Tel Aviv + Ramat Gan (the "main" skyline) would be at 8,000.
> 
> Measuring yearly growth for every urban area would take a lot of time, but from what I've gathered the suburbs have only begun to build tall this decade. For Tel Aviv itself, the number increased from 2,285.97 (adjusted for unknown buildings) to 5,912.17 - doubling it. The metro area, in line with the graph, has grown even faster than that.


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## LivinAWestLife (Aug 24, 2019)

isaidso said:


> I seem to downgrade Hong Kong too and often wondered why. Its skyline has everything going for it: height, scale, layout, quality, setting, etc. Intuitively, it should be 1st. I suspect I put it lower because it doesn't change much so I get tired looking at it. Still, I have trouble putting it any lower than 4th. I suppose it could be 7th in 2030 if it doesn't grow much.


I'll admit I'm biased since I am from Hong Kong, but I don't think we'll be dethroned on my list by 2030 (I can see Shenzhen doing it by 2040). The city simply has too many 40 fl+ buildings from public _and_ private housing all over the island and peninsula. Outside the main skyline are areas such as Kwun Tong, Tseung Kwan O, Sha Tin, Yuen Long, Tsuen Wan, Tuen Mun, and many other new towns with 40 fl+ public housing that are obscured by hills from the main skyline, which is why its ranking is so high.

Even other countries fond of building apartments like South Korea and China build shorter apartment buildings (between 10-30 stories), reducing how many points they get per building.

Even on Emporis' list which uses similar criteria to mine, Hong Kong's score is ~3 times that of New York's, and Emporis is missing some newer apartment buildings as well. It's not growing as fast (only 10% last decade) so inevitably another city will catch up.

If I can predict 2030's ranking based of my data, I think Hong Kong, New York, Shenzhen, Dubai, Chongqing, Seoul, and Kuala Lumpur will definitely remain on the list. 

I still can't fathom the amount of apartments South Korea builds, and how their skylines look so much smaller than they should be (mainly because their designs are not very appealing).


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## LivinAWestLife (Aug 24, 2019)

*Fastest-Growing major skylines (United States)* - Percentage-wise
These are the cities that grew the most between 2010 and 2020 in the U.S.


CityGrowth Rate (Minimum)20102020Jersey City141.59%1,823.624,408.57Austin91.63%963.491,850.62Nashville80.73%544.83993.72Sunny Isles Beach79.65%1,911.953,434.73Seattle67.07%3,681.346,150.55Fort Lauderdale62.95%1,160.861,891.65Miami61.73%8,160.9413,207.09Fort Lee, NJ51.59%414.58630.21Hollywood, FL50.81%435.50656.76Oakland47.30%376.65554.80Oklahoma City44.47%352.18516.26Los Angeles35.68%5,396.287,321.86New York City33.78%74,170.4299,322.60San Francisco31.63%5,012.996,611.61San Diego31.17%1,752.432,303.42Bellevue, WA29.74%570.40740.01Boston28.09%3,302.374,272.62Arlington, VA24.95%832.021,039.59Charlotte23.87%1,240.091,536.10Milwaukee22.23%726.59896.90


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## Kiwieh (Jul 4, 2020)

LivinAWestLife said:


> *Fastest-Growing major skylines (United States)* - Percentage-wise
> These are the cities that grew the most between 2010 and 2020 in the U.S.
> 
> 
> CityGrowth Rate (Minimum)20102020Jersey City141.59%1,823.624,408.57Austin91.63%963.491,850.62Nashville80.73%544.83993.72Sunny Isles Beach79.65%1,911.953,434.73Seattle67.07%3,681.346,150.55Fort Lauderdale62.95%1,160.861,891.65Miami61.73%8,160.9413,207.09Fort Lee, NJ51.59%414.58630.21Hollywood, FL50.81%435.50656.76Oakland47.30%376.65554.80Oklahoma City44.47%352.18516.26Los Angeles35.68%5,396.287,321.86New York City33.78%74,170.4299,322.60San Francisco31.63%5,012.996,611.61San Diego31.17%1,752.432,303.42Bellevue, WA29.74%570.40740.01Boston28.09%3,302.374,272.62Arlington, VA24.95%832.021,039.59Charlotte23.87%1,240.091,536.10Milwaukee22.23%726.59896.90


it would be pretty cool if you could do a global version of this


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## U4ick_MIA (Dec 20, 2018)

2010 U.S. SkylinesCity ScoreNYC992Chicago 478Miami 132Houston 116Atlanta 105Los Angeles104San Francisco 104Seattle 79Dallas 74Honolulu 72Boston 69Las Vegas 69Philadelphia 60Denver 46Minneapolis42Pittsburgh42Detroit 40Jersey City36San Diego 32New Orleans26Charlotte24Baltimore 24Cleveland 23Austin 21Columbus 21St. Louis 18Phoenix 18Kansas City15Cincinnati 15Tulsa 15Nashville 14Indianapolis14Tampa 14


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## U4ick_MIA (Dec 20, 2018)

2019 U.S. SkylineCity ScoreNYC1244Chicago 531Miami 214Houston 152San Francisco 126Los Angeles116Atlanta 113Seattle 89Honolulu 85Philadelphia 83Boston 81Las Vegas 79Dallas 75Denver 49Jersey City47Pittsburgh44Minneapolis40Detroit 40San Diego 36Charlotte30Austin 30Baltimore 28New Orleans26Cleveland 25Columbus 21Cincinnati 19Phoenix 18St. Louis 17Tulsa 16Nashville 16Kansas City15Indianapolis15Tampa 14


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## LivinAWestLife (Aug 24, 2019)

Is this number of highrises?

(I.e. buildings over 100m)


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## Motul (Nov 8, 2003)

How did Mpls fall behind Pittsburgh?


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

LivinAWestLife said:


> Is this number of highrises?
> 
> (I.e. buildings over 100m)


I was trying to figure it out too but it's not buildings 100m+ as the counts would be lower.


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## U4ick_MIA (Dec 20, 2018)

It's my own "formula".. I don't claim it to be perfect, but yes, it does take 100m+ into consideration... just as not as much of a "weighted score" as a 150m / 200m / 250m / 300m +


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