# Where should I go for my first international vacation?



## ReddAlert (Nov 4, 2004)

BenL said:


> Thought anymore about a tour of Europe ReddAlert? What are you leaning towards at the moment?


right now---Paris-Normandy/London/Amsterdam/Brussels/Luxemborug. However, I would like to go to Portugal though.


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## Audiomuse (Dec 20, 2005)

Portugal will be nice and cheap. Porto and Lisbon have nice architecture and you can go to the beaches with nice lookin iberian people. Azores and the Canary Islands are nice.--But you said you are not big on Touristy areas so the mainland is more quiet. Belgium is a beautiful country with almost everyone speaking english.


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## BenL (Apr 24, 2006)

OK: 
You must see London and Paris and if you want to take things quite chilled I'd do 3-4 days in each city then either go to the Med for some sun and a different way of life or Rome as it's a beautiful city with more history all around you than I've ever seen in a city. It's slightly expensive but London - Paris is only 2h20 by Eurostar and you can get a night train from Paris to Rome leaving at around 7 and arriving by 9. Alternatively, there's the plane. If you're going to go to the Med it's probably easier to fly.


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## ReddAlert (Nov 4, 2004)

BenL said:


> OK:
> You must see London and Paris and if you want to take things quite chilled I'd do 3-4 days in each city then either go to the Med for some sun and a different way of life or Rome as it's a beautiful city with more history all around you than I've ever seen in a city. It's slightly expensive but London - Paris is only 2h20 by Eurostar and you can get a night train from Paris to Rome leaving at around 7 and arriving by 9. Alternatively, there's the plane. If you're going to go to the Med it's probably easier to fly.


how much do those Mag-Lev trains cost in France?


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## BenL (Apr 24, 2006)

I don't think they have Maglev. There's TGV which goes at 186mph.


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## Audiomuse (Dec 20, 2005)

3-4 days is too much! 

2 days in London
2 days in Paris
1 day in Amsterdam
1 day in Brugge
1 day in Brussels
1 days in Lille
^ All cities are within easy reach from each other
The rest of the days in Portugal
I have a great idea-- Start out in Paris, then go to Amst, then Brugge and Brussels. Visit Lille then go on a ferry across the channel from Calais to Dover. Stay in London for a couple days then fly out of Stansted Airport on Ryan Air (extremely cheap) to Porto. Rent a car there and relax on the Portuguese beaches.


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## BenL (Apr 24, 2006)

Don't agree at all with this American way of "doing Europe". It's better to get a real feel for a city than try to cram everything in. Ideally, London and Paris should have at least a week but as he doesn't have that time for both, it's worth compromising. 2 days in London or Paris doesn't do them justice.


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## MoreOrLess (Feb 17, 2005)

ReddAlert said:


> you guys are giving me alot of great ideas here, thanks!
> 
> I am looking at going 10-12 days and staying at the cheapest places I can find--like these hostels I am always hearing about. I dont have alot of money, but I would like to explore Europe when I am young and am not tied down with a mortgage, kids, and a dog. Many people I talk to say I should go Paris-London because its the easiest for a first time American traveler.
> 
> oh, and virtual...I am not big on the touristy areas. Sure, I would like to see the Eiffel Tower or Empire State Building....but I aint standing in no two hour line like I did getting up on the CN Tower. I am a more laid back traveler and would rather enjoy a relaxing vaction than be fixated on trying to see everything--an impossible task. I would prefer to rub elbows with the people of that country rather than some other tourists in some gift shop or huge waiting line. The nightlife is something I would have to check out--therefore, me getting up at 5 in the morning to get ready to beat the rush at Versailles isnt going to be happening.


If cost is a real factor then what about somewhere in Asia? Vietnam for example is absolutely dirt cheap, you could stay in 3-4 star hotels and eat in nice restaurants every night there and probabley spend less money than roughing it in London.


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## ReddAlert (Nov 4, 2004)

MoreOrLess said:


> If cost is a real factor then what about somewhere in Asia? Vietnam for example is absolutely dirt cheap, you could stay in 3-4 star hotels and eat in nice restaurants every night there and probabley spend less money than roughing it in London.


Vietnam was another of my spots to visit. I can only imagine the kind of reaction people will give me when I say, I *want* to go to Nam. lol, seriously...I have seen the pictures on here and it looked beautiful. I also would like to check out some stuff regarding the War. Would accessing a country like that be more difficult than Europe for example?


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## algonquin (Sep 24, 2004)

ReddAlert said:


> Southern Ontario--Toronto and Niagra Falls lol. That about sums up the second largest country on earth huh?  In honesty, I havent visited most of the U.S. either though--I have never been to NYC, Boston, New Orleans, Hawaii, Alaska, or California. I would like to go way up north in Canada-=--like Artic Ocean area, but that might take a little planning.


That would be so awesome... I want to go to the arctic too. It's super expensive though... plan for about 3 grand for a flight to anywhere in Nunavut, I beleive. It's a long flight too.

If you want to see something entirely different, yet stay in North America, I strongly suggest Newfoundland. Or check out Quebec City... it's only a day and a half drive from Millwaukee. 

I'd love to check out Mexico City... what a fantastic place for architecture and culture....


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## BenL (Apr 24, 2006)

Definitely and I'd imagine Americans aren't exactly loved over there. But it's still possible. Certainly.


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## BenL (Apr 24, 2006)

Jump at me if anyone thinks I'm spamming this topic, I'm just excited by the propsect of giving someone advice on their first ever holiday. See, I've just had an idea. Now I don't know where you stand on politics - I know some Americans are brought up to hate Communism like the devil - but what would you think about Cuba?

It isn't as amazing as Paris or London but Paris or London will still be amazing in 10 years time. By that time Castro is likely to be dead and Cuba will be like anywhere else in the Carribean. I found the country, in particular Havana, to be a real eye-opener and it must be even more interesting as an American to visit this forbidden country which is so close. 

As I'm sure you know, Cuba is in the middle of the Carribean so the weather is lovely. The beaches are beautiful (although I'd try to spend more time with the people) and the atmosphere is really buzzing. Food is awful and the hotels aren't amazing, but that isn't what you go for. I'll stop rambling if you really aren't interested, but if you are, I'll give you some more information as I visited the country last year and it was one of my favourite holidays.

Slight problem: It's illegal for an American and I believe you can face a fine of $30,000 - a bit of a problem when you're travelling on a budget! This shouldn't matter as most Americans fly from Mexico or Canada and the Cuban customs don't stamp the passports of American tourists so they don't get caught by this ridiculous law. Great place to visit and just ask if you want to know more...


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

You could try Congo. It's certainly off the beaten tracks. You'll feel like a tourist back in the 1930s, before the advent of nasty mass tourism. Probably you can find Milwaukee-Kinshasa flights with Northwest/Air France (transfering in NYC and Paris).

Congo offers volcanoes:









Some of the largest lakes in the world in the Rift Valley:









National parks said to hide the treasure of King Solomon (inspiration for Indiana Jones, among others):









Local wildlife:









Local flora:









Friendly people unspoiled by mass tourism:









And then the mighty Congo River:


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## centreoftheuniverse (Nov 16, 2005)

^ WOW! :eek2: 
These look like the time of the dinosaurs.



>


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## ReddAlert (Nov 4, 2004)

algonquin said:


> That would be so awesome... I want to go to the arctic too. It's super expensive though... plan for about 3 grand for a flight to anywhere in Nunavut, I beleive. It's a long flight too.
> 
> If you want to see something entirely different, yet stay in North America, I strongly suggest Newfoundland. Or check out Quebec City... it's only a day and a half drive from Millwaukee.
> 
> I'd love to check out Mexico City... what a fantastic place for architecture and culture....


3 grand?! Whoa...... I guess I better get a sled team together.  

I have heard some nice things about Newfoundland and also Quebec City. I also like the convienence of traveling to places in Canada. We went to Toronto last summer and the drive time was quite short--leaving at like 5-6 in the morning, took the lake ferry across Lake Michigan, and got into the Toronto area at late afternoon. I bet if I pushed it, I could get into Montreal in a day.


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## ReddAlert (Nov 4, 2004)

BenL said:


> Jump at me if anyone thinks I'm spamming this topic, I'm just excited by the propsect of giving someone advice on their first ever holiday. See, I've just had an idea. Now I don't know where you stand on politics - I know some Americans are brought up to hate Communism like the devil - but what would you think about Cuba?
> 
> It isn't as amazing as Paris or London but Paris or London will still be amazing in 10 years time. By that time Castro is likely to be dead and Cuba will be like anywhere else in the Carribean. I found the country, in particular Havana, to be a real eye-opener and it must be even more interesting as an American to visit this forbidden country which is so close.
> 
> ...



yeah, I heard about the crap you can get yourself into by travelling to Cuba. Hefy fines and they can deny you re-entry into the country. Its ridicolous if you ask me--how this country has such anti-Cuba sentiment but is buddy-buddy with China and Saudi Arabia. Cuba would be great to visit, but I do think that once Americans are let in---that it would lose some of its charm because of massive tourism.


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## ReddAlert (Nov 4, 2004)

wow, the Congo looks beautiful....very much like the "time of dinosaurs." Ive read in some books that travel here can be a little risky though.


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## Zaqattaq (Nov 17, 2004)

ReddAlert said:


> how much do those Mag-Lev trains cost in France?


You mean TGV and the answer to your question is not cheap


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## Skybean (Jun 16, 2004)

You can take Maglev in Shanghai only from the airport to the city and it is cheap. But you get your thrills for 8 minutes.


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## Boil My Eggs (May 29, 2006)

You are best going to Europe for your first trip. Congo/Cuba are interesting, but they are not the places for a first time traveller. In Europe you will be relaxed due to modern safe infrastructure and English widely spoken. I have been to over 40 countries, but I still wouldn't go to the Congo due to the countries infrastructure, political problems and the fact that it is very dangerous place. It is a place that lefties would go to, personally I prefer relaxing in a cafe in Paris, taking in medieval Brugge or enjoying the beauty of Bavaria on a hired Mountain Bike! In the Congo the bike would be stolen by armed tribes!

Cuba is pretty boring anyway, just sun and beaches, not my cup of tea. You would be better going to Miami. Cuba is a poor mans Miami! Go to Europe, safe, wealthy and sophisticated! Don't go way off the beaten track if it's your first trip, as you don't have any experience.


Is this the kind of place you would want to go to, especially as an inexperienced American traveller?? - Congo -

"Congo's security situation is at best 'unstable', its infrastructure is in shambles and many of its citizens are in fear for their lives. As for travellers, the DRC remains a no-go zone.

Violence between government and militia troops has flared once again in the DRC's Katanga province causing mass evacuations and chaos in the east of the country.

Outside of Kinshasa, travel is hazardous and difficult and many regions are highly insecure, particularly in the east and north of the country. The district of Ituri is especially dangerous according to the UN, with thousands of murders and rapes occurring each month amidst clashes between government troops, armed militia and tribal groups. Entry from Uganda or Rwanda should not be attempted."


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## BenL (Apr 24, 2006)

ReddAlert said:


> yeah, I heard about the crap you can get yourself into by travelling to Cuba. Hefy fines and they can deny you re-entry into the country. Its ridicolous if you ask me--how this country has such anti-Cuba sentiment but is buddy-buddy with China and Saudi Arabia. Cuba would be great to visit, but I do think that once Americans are let in---that it would lose some of its charm because of massive tourism.


Completely agree. However, I saw several Americans there and quite a lot of Canadians. Whilst "Boil My Eggs" might be right that it's not the best place for a first time traveller, it's worth visiting as soon as possible as the country is starting to open up to tourism a lot more in an effort to survive. 

He's an idiot to say it's just sun and beaches. Havana is one of the most vibrant and exciting cities I've ever visited. Completely different way of life. I think somewhere like Cuba which offers a whole new take on life to what you're used to in the US but it may be too difficult for a first holiday. 

If you think that is the case, take a trip of Europe, buy a travel guide and see which cities you like the look of the most but London and Paris are musts to spend at least 3-4 days in. I realise I'm repeating myself but for the rest of your holiday, if you choose Europe, you should spend either by the Med (perhaps depending on whether you've been to Californian or Florida's beaches) or in another city.


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## Boil My Eggs (May 29, 2006)

Havana is a a dump, it's full of poor people sitting on their arses all day long!!! No wonder they are poor! Nice women, but they all looked like tramps. Why would anybody want to visit poor people?


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## BenL (Apr 24, 2006)

You are an idiot. Has to be said...

When did you last visit Havana, if at all?


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## Boil My Eggs (May 29, 2006)

4 years ago, wasn't impressed, full of poor people...and I HATE poor people!!


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

You are really poor - then stay at your comfortable home with your fancy clothings and newest tv to watch the rest of the world safely from your comfy chair. And just PRAY that you NEVER will get poor or handicapped yourself and other people start talking about you the same way!


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## MoreOrLess (Feb 17, 2005)

ReddAlert said:


> Vietnam was another of my spots to visit. I can only imagine the kind of reaction people will give me when I say, I *want* to go to Nam. lol, seriously...I have seen the pictures on here and it looked beautiful. I also would like to check out some stuff regarding the War. Would accessing a country like that be more difficult than Europe for example?


I actually saw very little evidense of the war besides a few museums(Hannoi Hilton etc) and remains of the imperial city in Hue although I didnt visit the central highlands where I'd guess most of the mine fields are, the communist goverment is also far less visable than say China. The highlights for me where Halong Bay, Hoi An and the hilltribes in the north who havent yet been turned into much of a money grubbing tourist attraction.

Actually getting to Vietnam wouldnt really be anymore difficult than most european countries I'd guess other than maybe waiting longer for the Visa. Getting around would obviously be more difficult than say London though as English isnt that widely spoken. If you've not got any backpacking expereince and wanted to visit Asia for a short time I'd say you'd be better off with a tour, less chance of getting ripped off/stranded, more time to actually spend visiting places as your not having to organise things and more chance to get off the beaten track.


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## ricz (May 4, 2006)

Boil My Eggs said:


> 4 years ago, wasn't impressed, full of poor people...and I HATE poor people!!


maybe they r poor in terms of wealth, but its better than u being poor mentalling, wake up, u arrogant shit, when can u stop dissing everyone else except urself?


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## Siopao (Jun 22, 2005)

I recommend you to visit Japan, not only you are "out of the country" but you're also "out of this WORLD!" Im telling you... Japan is no other country in this world..


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## svs (Dec 5, 2005)

For a first time traveler, the first question is, "How comfortable are you in situations where it might be difficult to find an English speaker?" If you can get along or speak something besides English, I would recommend Europe, buy a Eurail pass, stay in cheap youth hostels or B&B's and let your heart be your guide. You sound like you might prefer small towns and villages to big cities, but that is where the language difficulties are the most problematic. 

If you can't handle German, French or Italian, stick to Britain, Holland, Switzerland, and the Scandinavian countries. Or consider Australia, and New Zealand which are fascinating, beautiful, friendly, and generally hassle free. I would stay away from the third world (Congo, Cuba, etc.) until you are a little more experienced.


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## ♣628.finst (Jul 29, 2005)

My suggestions: (All English-speaking places! My favourite!)

1- Alberta, the finest place all around North America.
2- Saskatchewan-Manitoba, my homeland.
3- Northern Territory, Australia. Simply a perfect place for tropical lovers.
4- New Zealand! 
5- Alaska.


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## allan_dude (Apr 14, 2005)

Japan for me!


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## marquette (May 29, 2006)

as a person that has been to every contenent except south america. (and everything on the list except fiji). and yes now i live in Milwaukee as an international student (so sorry for the spelling).

i think you should cross this england/ france idea. i know you ahvent been outside the country but i think you should go to somewhere that is much different then the usa. england is different but not different enough. (compared to other countries).

it all depends on what you want. i love how you think. yes going to touristy places are boring. to me is trying different. learning different traditions. and learning a few words in another language. listening to new ideas. and being exposed to something different. to me being exposed to different things everyday living in the usa has taught me a lot about me.

portgul is fun. jeruslem (SP) was the most exciting. you get to see two different cultures. and a lot of historic beutiful places. austarlia was fun too, especially if you are an animal lover. all depends what you are in to.


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

You want him to go somewhere that is much different than the usa, and then advise him to go to Australia??


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## _zner_ (May 24, 2005)

PARIS. you could actually do country hopping if youre in Frace.


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## Nicolás (Dec 17, 2005)

Much different to the USA? The USA are very different --- they have every type of climate... the best would be somewhere in Africa or Asia, but not Europe


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

North Korea would be cool for somewhere different.


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

What an original joke!


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## Ozcan (Feb 4, 2005)

@Reddalert

Italy! The "best" country 


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=357905

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=357582

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=357512

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=357985

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=357977

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=357927


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

lol, yeah Italy's definitly a must see in Europe


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## Ozcan (Feb 4, 2005)

The most cultivated country IMO.


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