# Can a country be too expensive?



## earthJoker (Dec 15, 2004)

Mr_Denmark said:


> I'm sure you can find 10€ coffee in almost every city on the planet - you sure can in Denmark (inc. a small pastry )... Another way to put prices around the globe is the Big Mac Index


It's a bad way, in Switzerland Big Macs are very expensive if you compare it to other products you can get here.


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

For us Swiss who are used to high prices Scandinavia is the prove that it can be much worse (especially Norway)  France (Paris), London and Spain also tend to be very expensive and what German restaurants did after the inauguration of the Euro is just public crime 

Our coffee and beer prices are much too high though... who cares about a big mac, I want my coffee!!!


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

Jedrzej said:


> No. It's not 32 EEK byt 32 $. It cost 100 PLN


I'm sure you can get cheaper pizzas than $32 in Estonia, everyone I know who's been there says it is very cheap.

The Pizzas at this restaurant in tallinn start at EEK84 ($6.50)


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## ♣628.finst (Jul 29, 2005)

Too expensive??? I think Northern Manitoba is 2 times more expensive than its Southern counterpart... especially in towns like Churchill or Thompson. (Thompson is slightly better but still depends on what you are going to buy there  ) Further North in Nunavut... an average Non-White person there earns half of our average income and have to buy things which is 2-3 times more than Southern Canada. So life of Inuits are always harsh... Their lands are not available for crops, and without them they could only go hunting to sustain their lives. It's the tundra environment that makes their life even harsher... though if the population are mainly white it would be slightly better... because of better skills and industry (Iceland is a brilliant example) (That's sad, our government treated them as slaves, and their bad living standard actually does affect everyone, including both White Canadians and Quebecois)


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

hkskyline said:


> Japan isn't too expensive actually. The hotels are pricey and the rooms are small, but food costs are actually quite reasonable compared to the West.


As long as you don't eat melons 

http://www.econ.iastate.edu/classes/econ355/choi/jprice.htm


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

Kuesel said:


> For us Swiss who are used to high prices Scandinavia is the prove that it can be much worse (especially Norway)  France (Paris), London and Spain also tend to be very expensive and what German restaurants did after the inauguration of the Euro is just public crime


I've always found Spain to be very reasonably priced, certainly much cheaper than London, Paris, Scandinavia or Switzerland.


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## Küsel (Sep 16, 2004)

That's true - but if I compare the INCREASING of the prices in Spain in the last 20 years, then it's more than in a lot of other places - thanks to tourism as well. And clear you can't compare Barcelona or Benidorm to central Spain...


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

keros said:


> *Paris* a coffee 5 €


On the Champs Elysée maybe, but it's much cheaper elsewhere. One point to keep in mind about Paris. Many Cafe's have a different price for the seats outside or those by the window inside. I have seen a few with distinctive seperate menus on the tables (the inner seats had different colour menus and were cheaper). Likewise, it's often cheapest to drink at the bar. There are tricks the locals learn, who obviously don't want to pay high prices for a cup of coffee. 

From what I've found, away from the tourist spots, there is no difference where you sit. A good cheap cup of coffee can be found at any seat.


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## Pavlo (Dec 28, 2004)

Jonesy55 said:


> As long as you don't eat melons
> 
> http://www.econ.iastate.edu/classes/econ355/choi/jprice.htm


Wow holy shit meat costs $52 per pound. Insane!!


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## coldstar (Jan 14, 2003)

hkskyline said:


> Japan isn't too expensive actually. The hotels are pricey and the rooms are small, but food costs are actually quite reasonable compared to the West.


Compared with London, NYC, Tokyo's hotel price is quite reasonable, but transportation is expensive.


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## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

I found Norway to be WAY to expensive. Switzerland was pretty bad, too, when we did not have the Euro but apparently the Euro has raised prices in Euroland to an extent that makes Swiss prices appear average.


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## rhz (Nov 8, 2004)

I heard Iceland is the most expensive country to visit.


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## hkth (Sep 15, 2005)

Actually, the fairest way to count if a country is expensive is to count with the Purchasing Power Parity (PPP or 3Ps). It is a matter of the wages level and the market price level. Therefore, it is cheaper to shop in Thailand than in US within the same kind of wages in US. :|


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## _00_deathscar (Mar 16, 2005)

It depends...generally with regards to city - there will always be places you can find good deals. For example, here in Hong Kong there are plenty of places you can eat good food for cheap - or buy clothes for cheap.

Living on the high end of the scale however, there are also plenty of places that could make you bankrupt in a week - so it's two sides to a coin really...I know places that offer some of the best deals in the world, and also places that have prices I've yet to see matched worldwide.

Depends how long you live in that city for really.

A country as a whole, it's quite hard to be expensive, and I haven't explored a 'whole country' so to say, but I'd wager that most Scandanavian countries as well as the likes of Switzerland, France and so on are expensive as a whole.

Found the United States to be moderately priced...


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## Arpels (Aug 9, 2004)

Iceland is very expensive!!


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## _00_deathscar (Mar 16, 2005)

Supposedly...what's that one city - Rasiak or something?


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## FREKI (Sep 27, 2005)

hkth said:


> Actually, the fairest way to count if a country is expensive is to count with the Purchasing Power Parity (PPP or 3Ps). It is a matter of the wages level and the market price level.


 That depends... Sales taxes ( VATs) and other regulations has a matter in the saying too... for examble the EU wich has laws that keep the Danish prices down... where Switzerland and Norway is not regulated in the same way, and therefore have higher prices as a result.


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## NorthStar77 (Oct 8, 2003)

^what laws are that? They haven't stopped cars from beeing more expencive in Denmark than in Norway Most EU-laws apply for Norway too. 

btw, wow 2,5$ for an apple in Japan! You can get a kilo of apples for that here.


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## tkr (Apr 3, 2005)

Brazil is cheap!! come over..


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## vishalt (Jan 27, 2006)

yeah thats the only reason i wont go to japan, some overpriced essentials right there


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## FREKI (Sep 27, 2005)

NorthStar77 said:


> ^what laws are that? They haven't stopped cars from beeing more expencive in Denmark than in Norway Most EU-laws apply for Norway too.
> 
> btw, wow 2,5$ for an apple in Japan! You can get a kilo of apples for that here.


Please don't get me started on the damn car tax in Denmark :gaah:



> *Danish prices lead EU*
> by Copenhagen Post - 12/01-06 - http://www.cphpost.dk/get/93270.html
> 
> Denmark tops the charts when it comes to prices and GDP per capita amongst the EU-15
> ...


BTW fruit isn't normally that expensive in Japan... it was about the same price as in Denmark last summer in Tokyo and Osaka - but I suspect the price to be higher in the more isolated areas, just like in every country
( Just try to buy a pineaple on Greenland  )


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## vtower (Jan 31, 2006)

The public transport is cheap in Japan. A single ride for the Subway in Tokyo can be as cheap as Y160 ($1.6). Wheares the London underground is outrageous, costs ￡3 ($6) for a single ride! I don't think Japan is an expensive country, it's cheap everything. The rent is also extremely cheap too, $2,000 a month can do a quite reasonable one room flat with a room with bath, kitchen & toilet. In the West, it must be a crap share property for that amount. But then the VAT is like only 5% so it's rather understandable.


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## atariboy15 (Sep 11, 2002)

vtower said:


> The public transport is cheap in Japan. A single ride for the Subway in Tokyo can be as cheap as Y160 ($1.6). Wheares the London underground is outrageous, costs ￡3 ($6) for a single ride! I don't think Japan is an expensive country, it's cheap everything. The rent is also extremely cheap too, $2,000 a month can do a quite reasonable one room flat with a room with bath, kitchen & toilet. In the West, it must be a crap share property for that amount. But then the VAT is like only 5% so it's rather understandable.


okay, $2,000 a month can rent you a HOUSE with a yard and garage etc in many US cities......even in california and new york you can get what you listed for compareable prices and those are the most expensive places we have to offer


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

vtower said:


> The rent is also extremely cheap too, $2,000 a month can do a quite reasonable one room flat with a room with bath, kitchen & toilet. In the West, it must be a crap share property for that amount. But then the VAT is like only 5% so it's rather understandable.


If you think $2,000 is cheap for a one room flat that shows how expensive Japan really is. Even the most expensive parts of Europe like London or Paris are cheaper than that. In my town you could rent a 10 room mansion for $2000.

Also most people on't pay £3 for a ride in London, they have oyster cards or monthly tickets that are much cheaper.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tickets/2006/single/tubedlr.shtml


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## NorthStar77 (Oct 8, 2003)

@MrDenmark: so Norway is generally cheaper than Denmark:banana:

@vtower: Oslo ranks at the top of many cost of living-surveys, but for $2000 a month you can rent a 3 bedroom apartment in the finest area of the city, 5 minutes walk west of downtown. Just out of curiosity, I tried searching for apartment costing $2000 in the area I live, 25 minutes walk east of downtown, but there are none for rent at that price. The most expencive I could find was a 3 bedroom apartment for around $1500


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## MoreOrLess (Feb 17, 2005)

vtower said:


> The public transport is cheap in Japan. A single ride for the Subway in Tokyo can be as cheap as Y160 ($1.6). Wheares the London underground is outrageous, costs ￡3 ($6) for a single ride! I don't think Japan is an expensive country, it's cheap everything. The rent is also extremely cheap too, $2,000 a month can do a quite reasonable one room flat with a room with bath, kitchen & toilet. In the West, it must be a crap share property for that amount. But then the VAT is like only 5% so it's rather understandable.


An offpeak underground daypass at £6 is actually one of the few cheap things a tourist can do in London besides the free big Museums and just walking around in my expereince.


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## Zaki (Apr 16, 2005)

I haven't been to Tokyo in a while but one thing that i will never forget was the fact that when i was there one apple cost $30. I never seen anything like that ever before and ever again. In general i find scandinavian countries too expensive compared to north america.


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

Zaki said:


> I haven't been to Tokyo in a while but one thing that i will never forget was the fact that when i was there *one apple cost $30*. I never seen anything like that ever before and ever again. In general i find scandinavian countries too expensive compared to north america.


ARE YOU SERIOUS?


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

vtower said:


> The rent is also extremely cheap too, $2,000 a month can do a quite reasonable one room flat with a room with bath, kitchen & toilet. In the West, it must be a crap share property for that amount.



$2,000 a month rent for a 1 b/r is cheap !!!!!!!!!!???

HEART ATTACK!


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## Alfa-Omega (Dec 16, 2005)

I am from Mexico, and I work for an American Company, usually when I travel around USA I can rent cars, and stay in a 5 start hotel, when me and the American buddys goes to countrys like Finland, sweeden, we travel by bus, and stay and regular hotels, northern europe is very expensive. Even USA is cheaper than countrys like Mexico in a lot of things, like plane tickets, car rent, etc, etc


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

I have to say it is certainly a factor for me when I travel.... I admit I probably
wouldn't make plans to travel to Scandinavia because when I exchange my money
it doesn't go far there. Norway has a reputation here as being exceedingly expensive.


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## source26 (Jun 27, 2005)

Oslo joins the group of most
expensive cities in the world
By Tann vom Hove, Editor 
Deciding on which is the world’s most expensive city is a little bit like choosing between the merits of various world heavy weight boxing champions. Until recently the choice has been between Tokyo and London. But in its latest ‘Worldwide cost of living survey’ the Economist Intelligence Unit (EIU) says Oslo had overtaken Tokyo as the world’s costliest city. On the other hand, Mercer Consulting still places Tokyo at the top of its table, with Oslo being ranked 10th, while the Swiss Bank UBS puts London in first place, followed by Oslo, New York and Tokyo.

UBS survey: Most expensive cities (Intro) | Most expensive cities (table) | Richest cities |
Mercer survey: Most expensive cities

The problem with all three surveys is that they convert local prices into US dollars, which means that any changes are as much the result of currency fluctuations as of price inflation. For example according to all three surveys, the cost of living in European cities becomes more expensive if the dollar weakens even when local prices remain unchanged.

In its 2006 survey the EIU says that after 14 years at the top Tokyo had been overtaken by Oslo as the world's costliest city. Elsewhere an improving economic outlook has pushed Brazilian cities up the ranking and Asian cities make up many of the cheapest destinations. The bi–annual survey compares the cost of a representative basket of goods and services in dollar terms from over 130 cities worldwide to provide guidance for the calculation of executive allowances. The data quoted uses New York as a base index of 100 for comparisons.

Findings from the EIU survey
Tokyo is no longer the world's most expensive city. Oslo has replaced it at the top. Despite decoupling the yuan from the weakening dollar, Chinese cities have seen a fall in relative living costs as the economy opens up. Reykjavik in Iceland has seen the largest jump in the relative cost of living over the last 12 months. Meanwhile the Brazilian cities of Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo experienced the sharpest jump in ranking on the back of economic recovery across the region.

The survey describes 1991 as a landmark year. It began with the launch of operation Desert Storm and finished with the official dissolution of the Soviet Union. Also significant, says the EIU, was that it was the last time that the most expensive destination in the world fell outside Japan.

In 1991 Tehran occupied the top spot thanks to an overvalued official exchange rate, with Tokyo coming second in the world rankings. Unsurprisingly, revaluations quickly sent Tehran to the bottom of the ranking, where it now languishes. Tokyo, meanwhile, has held the dubious honour of being the world's most expensive city ever since – sharing the title with Osaka briefly in 2001.

Despite spending so long at the top, the displacement of Tokyo comes as little surprise to the EIU. A gradually weakening yen has been compounded by years of low inflation and deflation in the Japanese economy. Six months ago Oslo overtook Osaka as the second most expensive city in the ranking, making it a question of when, rather than if, Tokyo would follow suit.

Norway has seen strong economic growth following a recovery in 2004, enjoying high consumer confidence, rampant investment and still–low interest rates. The position of Oslo at the top of the ranking highlights a much wider increase in the relative cost of living across Europe, driven by the long–term underperformance of the dollar. Reykjavik saw the largest proportional rise in the cost of living, gaining 19 percentage points on New York and moving above Osaka into third place. Eight of the ten most expensive cities in the survey are now based in Europe, although only Paris (France, 4th) hails from the euro zone.

Not surprisingly the more developed western European cities make up the bulk of the most expensive cities in the region (and the world). Only one city (Moscow, 29th) from eastern and central Europe features in the 30 most expensive destinations, compared with the presence of 20 cities in western Europe.

Despite this, cities from the transition economies are seeing advances in the relative cost of living, some buoyed by entry into the EU or accession talks. Belgrade (Serbia & Montenegro, 107th), Bucharest (Romania, 95th), Kiev (Ukraine, 82nd), Warsaw (Poland, 63rd), Prague (Czech Republic, 58th) and Istanbul (Turkey, 48th) all saw a relative jump of more than 5% in the cost of living.

The survey also says that only two cities across Europe saw a decline in the relative cost of living. Tashkent (Uzbekistan) fell 12 places to 117th making it the cheapest city in the region alongside Almaty of Kazakhstan. However, both Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan are, of course, in Central Asia.

A strong regional performance in 2004 has filtered through to consumption and inflation levels in many countries of Latin America, causing a relative jump in the cost of living among many cities. Only four cities saw a decline in the relative cost of living in Latin America. Two of these cities, Quito (Ecuador, 100th) and Panama City (Panama, 95th), have dollarised economies and therefore have not seen the cost of living rise on the back of a weakening dollar. Asuncion (Paraguay, 124th) is the cheapest city in the region, with a cost of living index of just 45 per cent of New York's.

The sharpest rise in the overall rankings came from two Brazilian cities Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo. Each city jumped 22 places to joint 87th on the back of rising consumer prices and a 25% increase in the value of the real.

In North America, Canadian cities are now more expensive than all but the largest cities surveyed in the United States. Of 16 US cities featured in the survey only New York (27th), Chicago (35th), Los Angeles (35th) and San Francisco (40th) are pricier than Montreal and Vancouver (joint 43rd).

Although Tokyo and Osaka both fell in the ranking, ending 14 years as the costliest cities in the survey, many cities in Asia have seen economic growth pushing the relative cost of living up.

Australia and New Zealand saw thanks to buoyant exchange rates and rising petrol prices. Seoul (South Korea, 13th), meanwhile, overtook Hong Kong (14th) as the most expensive city in the region after Tokyo and Osaka.

Despite rampant economic growth, and the decoupling of the yuan to the US dollar, Chinese cities have experienced a relative fall in the ranking as increased investment opens up pricing competition and lowers tariffs on branded goods in larger urban centres.

High levels of income disparity mean that, although Tokyo and Osaka remain the most expensive cities in the world, many cities in Asia offer much better value for money. Five of the seven lowest–priced cities surveyed are based in Asia. The cheapest of these is Manila (Philippines, 127th), also the second cheapest destination surveyed.

Cities surveyed in Sub–Saharan Africa saw costs generally rising because of high inflation. Lagos (Nigeria, 63rd), Lusaka (Zambia, 91st) and Nairobi (Kenya, 93rd) all experienced double–digit inflation. This had the greatest effect for Lusaka which rose 18 places in the ranking.

Conversely, cities in the Middle East saw a relative decline in living costs due to extremely low inflation, price controls (especially on fuel) and the pegging of so many currencies to the US dollar. In the Middle East only Dubai (UAE, 71st) and Cairo (Egypt, 113th) climbed the cost of living ranking.

The 10 most expensive cities in the world, with previous positions in brackets
Rank City 
1 (3) Oslo 
2 (1) Tokyo 
3 (8) Reykjavik 
4 (2) Osaka 
4 (4) Paris 
6 (5) Copenhagen 
7 (7) London 
8 (6) Zurich 
9 (8) Geneva 
10 (10) Helsinki


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## OtAkAw (Aug 5, 2004)

I don't understand why some cities are so expensive and others are so cheap. A 5-star room in Manila can go as low as $120...


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## North_Beach (Jan 21, 2006)

A weekend in Oslo is shit because it is so expensive. Lovely city, and great to live in as you will earn very high wages working in Oslo, but rubbish to visit unless you are loaded!! £6 a beer!!! I had a pizza and a coke and it came to £18!! The price of things ruined my weekend trip to Oslo! 

and i'm from the UK!!...God knows what it would be like if you were from a country with a low currency value!!


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## vtower (Jan 31, 2006)

I felt like London's rent is twice as higher than in Tokyo. I don't believe that Tokyo is such an expensive city. The most expensive city in the world must be London.



luv2bebrown said:


> $2,000 a month rent for a 1 b/r is cheap !!!!!!!!!!???
> 
> HEART ATTACK!


Perhaps it comes with the lounge as well, seperated from the bedroom.


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## vtower (Jan 31, 2006)

NorthStar77 said:


> @vtower: Oslo ranks at the top of many cost of living-surveys, but for $2000 a month you can rent a 3 bedroom apartment in the finest area of the city, 5 minutes walk west of downtown. Just out of curiosity, I tried searching for apartment costing $2000 in the area I live, 25 minutes walk east of downtown, but there are none for rent at that price. The most expencive I could find was a 3 bedroom apartment for around $1500


I don't think the standard of living is measured only by the property price. Oslo is the wealthiest city in the world due to many other factors.


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## Audiomuse (Dec 20, 2005)

2 words-- U.K. and Japan. I went out to eat at a pub called the Crazy Horse in Chelmsford the other day and it cost me 14.95 for a Burger, beans, and fries, not to mention 2 Fosters at 4 pounds each. It was not even fancy and it tasted awful. Double that and that equals around $44 just for myself. On top of that, the Brits don't make as much as us Americans so going out to eat at a real restaurant (not fastfood) can cost a bunch. Think about a family of four on a mid-income. As for Tokyo it is just as bad. Jeez! Tokyo is a killer.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

macon4ever said:


> 2 words-- U.K. and Japan. I went out to eat at a pub called the Crazy Horse in Chelmsford the other day and it cost me 14.95 for a Burger, beans, and fries, not to mention 2 Fosters at 4 pounds each. It was not even fancy and it tasted awful. Double that and that equals around $44 just for myself. On top of that, the Brits don't make as much as us Americans so going out to eat at a real restaurant (not fastfood) can cost a bunch. Think about a family of four on a mid-income.


That's very expensive even for the UK. I'd normally expect to pay £6-7 for a burger and fries in a pub and about £2.50 for a pint of beer. For £15 you can get gourmet food. 

At current exchange rates i'm not sure there's a huge difference between the UK and US earnings for mid and lower paid jobs. Median full time salary here is about £22,000 ($38,500), mean is £27,500 ($48,200). London and the SE are a bit higher, the rest of the country a bit lower


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

Jonesy55 said:


> That's very expensive even for the UK. I'd normally expect to pay £6-7 for a burger and fries in a pub and about £2.50 for a pint of beer. For £15 you can get gourmet food.
> 
> At current exchange rates i'm not sure there's a huge difference between the UK and US earnings for mid and lower paid jobs. Median full time salary here is about £22,000 ($38,500), mean is £27,500 ($48,200). London and the SE are a bit higher, the rest of the country a bit lower


A pint of beer is about the same here in a pub, but I have always found
food in Britain to be twice as expensive as here- either at the low end or
upper end.



vtower said:


> I don't think the standard of living is measured only by the property price. Oslo is the wealthiest city in the world due to many other factors.


uhuh.. those many other factors are called "OIL"


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## _00_deathscar (Mar 16, 2005)

Still think HK is the most expensive city I've been to/lived in.

But then again, I haven't been to Tokyo yet.


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## KB (Feb 22, 2006)

eomer said:


> On the Champs Elysée it's 5 € but luckily, not everywhere !!!
> It's generally 1 € (0,20 in my company at the coffee-machine).


r u kidding ? 0,20 at the coffee machine?

most of the place i find it around €2 :dunno: 

hey, can i have ur company address, plzzz?


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