# chinese xinjiang,and its people



## 7freedom7 (Jun 28, 2007)

Some advices for the people who wants to make your political views here: if you want to talk to Chinese about the Free Xinjiang then please go to any of Chinese history fora or Chinese military/defense fora, I'm sure there are a lot of fun giving a speech there.


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## Goyazny (Feb 1, 2009)

7freedom7 said:


> Some advices for the people who wants to make your political views here: if you want to talk to Chinese about the Free Xinjiang then please go to any of Chinese history fora or Chinese military/defense fora, I'm sure there are a lot of fun giving a speech there.


Hope that you are not referring to me. I do not have political stands. But, some comments are usual even at photo threads.


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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

Very nice photos from Xinjiang city :cheers: thanks for sharing


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## Ohno (Jul 1, 2006)

RyukyuRhymer said:


> the poster selectively chose minorities with distinctly different features. In reality, if you've met a sizeable amount of people there.. Uighurs can range from looking Mediterranean, Persian, and even east Asian, with most being somewhere in between. This reflects their history of being descended from earlier Indo-European people's living in whats now southern Xinjiang, and the old Uighurs (different from today's Uighurs). Others like the Kazakhs and Kyrgyz are generally much more "Asian" looking and there are many Mongol groups and Hui who are living there too.


True. Most of time, no matter Ugyhur, Kazakh, Tajkah they are,I saw minories have black hair. Blonde hair and blue eyes are very rare. The only one Xinjiang girl with Blonde hair and blue eyes I met descented from a Russian father and Han mother.


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## z0rg (Jan 17, 2003)

RyukyuRhymer said:


> the poster selectively chose minorities with distinctly different features. In reality, if you've met a sizeable amount of people there.. Uighurs can range from looking Mediterranean, Persian, and even east Asian, with most being somewhere in between. This reflects their history of being descended from earlier Indo-European people's living in whats now southern Xinjiang, and the old Uighurs (different from today's Uighurs). Others like the Kazakhs and Kyrgyz are generally much more "Asian" looking and there are many Mongol groups and Hui who are living there too.


Maybe they have blood of a lot of ethnic groups due to the Silk Road?


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## mataram (Sep 4, 2009)

yes you do. you also see gradual changes when you move from south asia to north asia, or from northeast asia to southeast asia.


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## StormShadow (Apr 14, 2005)

Good pictures, both people and urban sets. :cheers:

The phenotypes of the inhabitants should come to no surprise of well versed people. In antiquity, there were "Indo-European" speaking groups within the the Tarim Basin periphery area, primarily Tocharian, Yuezhi, Kushan, Khotan long with the nomadic Saka peoples. Of course with time influences are introduced or established and intermingled, either phenotypic or even a gradual cline, culturally or linguistic. Keep in mind "Indo-European" is a linguistic family term, while "Asian" is only Continent definition, these are not anthropometric or phenotypical terms. In old typology, it would of been classified or maybe it's even still utilized for measurements today as "Caucasoid" (Caucasian like) and "*********" (Mongol like). So yes, we can see these influences amongst the inhabitants of Central Asia, per individual. Thanks for the pictures. 

BTW, Kashgar has similar developments to Urumqi ?


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## skyscraper03 (Feb 12, 2005)

Goyazny said:


> City looks good and developed.
> Uighurs are beautifull people.
> Central government in Beijing should make more effort to make them happier. If tense between Uighurs and Han people gets more and more developed , there would not be happy future.
> It is obvious that Beijing invested billions in developing Urumqi and whole region, but looks that root of a problem is in kind of feeling that national identity of Uighurs is repressed.
> ...


Strong ones eat weak ones... That's the rule of survival of civilization or perhaps the rule of entire nature. I think, in human history, when a little strong one tried to eat a relatively weaker one, it had never been successfully swallowed. But, when a very strong one tried to eat a very week one, it was swallowed easily and permanently.

That's what happened between Europeans and Africans, Americans and Indians(Native Americans), and Chinese and Tibet-Uighur.

So, Tibetans and Uighur people will speak Chinese and so on just like Africans speak western languages like French or English.

I think the multiculturalism that China pursues isn't that bad thing as long as it's done peacefully and they're treated equally.


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## oliver999 (Aug 4, 2006)

the most remote large city which is farthest from any ocean.nice.


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## xizhimen (Jan 16, 2009)

Kashgar 's modernization faces great obstacles,kashar is a overwhelmingly uighur dominated city,some countries criticize china of destroying uighur traditional homes, but the government insists that those neighborhoods have no running water,no roads for ambulence and firetrucks to reach them,and xinjiang is a very earthquake active region,those houses wont stand a chance against earthquakes.


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## badguy2000 (Mar 1, 2007)

:nuts:


bgayet_blues said:


> Free Turkestan, Free Turkestan! It's a colony, not a real Chinese Province! What is the link between a turk sunni muslim people (Ouigours) and hans? Why the Han people who was only 6% of Xingjiang population in 1949 is now 40%? Why sunni muslim scholars are in jail just because of their faith? Why all the bigger criminels of CHina are deported in Xinjiang (Laogai Camp) and after have to live *obligatory *in Xingjiang?


yes, only 6% of Xinjiang population were Han in 1949,after "Free Turkestan" ethnic-cleaned native Hans there several times during "Free Turkestan movement (1944-1949).

"Free Turkestan" did their job of "ethnic clean" very well, didn't it?:nuts:


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## 7freedom7 (Jun 28, 2007)

Goyazny said:


> Hope that you are not referring to me. I do not have political stands. But, some comments are usual even at photo threads.


No, I'm not direct towards you. Feel free to comment here :cheers:


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## jutinyoung (Dec 9, 2007)

bgayet_blues said:


> Free Turkestan, Free Turkestan! It's a colony, not a real Chinese Province! What is the link between a turk sunni muslim people (Ouigours) and hans? Why the Han people who was only 6% of Xingjiang population in 1949 is now 40%? Why sunni muslim scholars are in jail just because of their faith? Why all the bigger criminels of CHina are deported in Xinjiang (Laogai Camp) and after have to live *obligatory *in Xingjiang?


What? colony? OMG, where is it come from? it`s really funny,!:lol:certainlly we have links, Uighur chinese like other ethnics of Chinese nation,has keep a very closed link with han chinese for thousand years, the ecnomic tie , the traffic tie, and most important, the culture tie, but i can tell you, the answer to your question is very simple, that is the primary link between uighur chinese and han chinese is that we are both chinese, we are both the master of the country. it is strange to say that two ethnics should not be in a same country when they have difference in appearance and religious, every big country in the world has various groups with separate apparence and religion, there are so many chinese in USA , in southeast Asia, especially in s-e asia, the chinese and the aboriginal peoples, they look different and have their own religon, dear my friend, you can`t say the han chinese group in southeast aisa should have their own country, you support that? i can agreen with youhno:


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## jutinyoung (Dec 9, 2007)

bgayet_blues, dear my friend, once again, you can not call Uighur chinese as colonial, because they are citizen of The People's Republic of China, PRCHINA is not a colony, it`s a independent country, OK??


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## RonnieR (Jul 13, 2007)

interesting, unique history....beautiful city.


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## jutinyoung (Dec 9, 2007)

skyscraper03 said:


> Strong ones eat weak ones... That's the rule of survival of civilization or perhaps the rule of entire nature. I think, in human history, when a little strong one tried to eat a relatively weaker one, it had never been successfully swallowed. But, when a very strong one tried to eat a very week one, it was swallowed easily and permanently.
> 
> That's what happened between Europeans and Africans, Americans and Indians(Native Americans), and Chinese and Tibet-Uighur.
> 
> ...


hno: i think your are cheated by some medias, maybe you can come to china, to xinjiang, to know more about the situation, especially to know the fact. i think i am not able to talk about the "eat" with you , but i prefer to call it "absorb", maybe not suitable, unfortunatlly, i can`t express the specific mean with english,but i can do it with chinese, chinese has a very loog history, and has it`s own advantages in some field and some time, i think that`s why japanese use a lot chinese characters too, they use chinese are not because we are strong than japan, we can`t "eat"them,ok? and they even used to invade us, i think they use chinese characters is more because chinese has looger history, and the time makes it more complete, not japan , korea, vietnam used to apply chinese characters too, if the central goverment has not tend to protect the ethnics` languages , they will disapear sooner or later, because chinese is more competitive in east aisa, just like english in western, it`s because the effect of culture itself , and it`s au pair, Uighur dance has been accepted by more and more han chinese too.


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## skyscraper03 (Feb 12, 2005)

jutinyoung said:


> hno: i think your are cheated by some medias, maybe you can come to china, to xinjiang, to know more about the situation, especially to know the fact. i think i am not able to talk about the "eat" with you , but i prefer to call it "absorb", maybe not suitable, unfortunatlly, i can`t express the specific mean with english,but i can do it with chinese, chinese has a very loog history, and has it`s own advantages in some field and some time, i think that`s why japanese use a lot chinese characters too, they use chinese are not because we are strong than japan, we can`t "eat"them,ok? and they even used to invade us, i think they use chinese characters is more because chinese has looger history, and the time makes it more complete, not japan , korea, vietnam used to apply chinese characters too, if the central goverment has not tend to protect the ethnics` languages , they will disapear sooner or later, because chinese is more competitive in east aisa, just like english in western, it`s because the effect of culture itself , and it`s au pair, Uighur dance has been accepted by more and more han chinese too.


Yes. maybe you're right and I have to learn about Chinese history to fully understand the Uiguhre as a part of China. Like I said, whatever the reason is I think the multiculturalism in China isn't a bad thing as long as Chinese government treat those ethnic groups equally and peacefully.


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## 7freedom7 (Jun 28, 2007)

skyscraper03 said:


> Yes. maybe you're right and I have to learn about Chinese history to fully understand the Uiguhre as a part of China. Like I said, whatever the reason is I think the multiculturalism in China isn't a bad thing as long as Chinese government treat those ethnic groups equally and peacefully.


Well, you have a point there, but the analogy drew by you in your 1st post between today's Uighur people and Africans or native Indians enslaved by colonists hundreds of yeas ago totally make me speechless. Idk where you are from, but please bear in mind that when some tribes fought each other to establish a unified mono-ethnic country, China has been one of the earliest, if not the earliest, multicultural and multi-ethnic countries in the world of all time (Roman and Han Empires). History proves that it's nowhere near enough to treat each ethnic minorities equally and peacefully only, they need get more to develop, eg the affirmative action program. Hope that you can get it.


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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

Post few photos from Xinjiang, please


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## xizhimen (Jan 16, 2009)




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## Oswald Quentin (Sep 14, 2009)

Cheers for the update xizhimen :cheers:


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## octopusop (Feb 10, 2009)

skyscraper03 said:


> Strong ones eat weak ones... That's the rule of survival of civilization or perhaps the rule of entire nature. I think, in human history, when a little strong one tried to eat a relatively weaker one, it had never been successfully swallowed. But, when a very strong one tried to eat a very week one, it was swallowed easily and permanently.
> 
> That's what happened between Europeans and Africans, Americans and Indians(Native Americans), and Chinese and Tibet-Uighur.
> 
> ...


I think you are right. In Xinjiang's neighbours Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan, local cultures had been swallowed by Russian culture.


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## alitezar (Mar 10, 2006)

Very beautiful and diverse looks


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## 7freedom7 (Jun 28, 2007)




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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

Very nice updated photos indeed; thanks for those


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## octopusop (Feb 10, 2009)

xizhimen said:


> Kashgar 's modernization faces great obstacles,kashar is a overwhelmingly uighur dominated city,some countries criticize china of destroying uighur traditional homes, but the government insists that those neighborhoods have no running water,no roads for ambulence and firetrucks to reach them,and xinjiang is a very earthquake active region,those houses wont stand a chance against earthquakes.


Earthquake is a bad cooked up excuse.


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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

^^ Earthquakes are bad for all the world...


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## Kenwen (May 1, 2005)

octopusop said:


> Earthquake is a bad cooked up excuse.


well, whether or not it is an excuse, it must been an idea from some greedy real estate developers, they always bribe regional government officials to get permits for land purchased and development so that they can earn shit loads of money, but on the otherhand if the wht the regional government said was true, than the local people must benefit greatly, because usually government pays for these kind of development, and people and many times farmers get to move to a new home for free. But the historical buildings thats gonna destroy is a headache


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## octopusop (Feb 10, 2009)

skyscraper03 said:


> Yes. maybe you're right and I have to learn about Chinese history to fully understand the Uiguhre as a part of China. Like I said, whatever the reason is I think the multiculturalism in China isn't a bad thing as long as Chinese government treat those ethnic groups equally and peacefully.


Chinese government has treated those ethnic groups as the upper class. In Mao's era, Han and minorities were abject poverty too. In 1980 decade, enterprises in Xinjiang must employ at least 40% minorities, universities must guarantee 40% number of enrollees minorities, it sounds good. But in 1990 decade, privatization spring tide swept China include Xinjiang, private and joint-venture enterprises would not like to employ minorities for language religion and productivity reasons, govt. has no right to intrude into these enterprises' affairs. So, the gap between the rich Hans and the poor Uyghurs have widen very quickly. In southern Xinjiang 3 districts (Kashgar Hetian Kezilesu, 90% Uyghurs are living there), annual income per capita were RMB2000~2400 (USD300~350), in Urumqi, this number was RMB13000(USD2000), Han's incomes were great than this number. A southern Uyghurs migrated to metro, no enterprises will employ him, he were living by picking up odd jobs, RMB500~800 income per month, resided in slums(Urumqi was the only Chinese city who had slums I have ever seen, because of the owners of slums were Uyghurs, govt. could not get rid of them. You can find those slums by the foot of hills in Google Earth.) Most of those southern Uyghurs have an unbalanced mentality.


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## 7freedom7 (Jun 28, 2007)

Abject poverty always leads to various society problems. If the central government were to dispose of those slums in Urumqi and southern Xinjiang for developing new condos, those poor Uighur people aren't able to afford those condos, and at the same time they may claim for a big deal of compensation exceeding what it should be, which the central government can't afford either. (The similar thing has taken place in Shaanxi and Shanxi province, the single difference is that they are Hui people not Uighurs)


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## xizhimen (Jan 16, 2009)

> Originally Posted by octopusop View Post
> Earthquake is a bad cooked up excuse.


do some study please,xinjiang is a very earth quake active region,hundreds of people were killed by the earth quakes in xinjiang during the last decade alone.and also,what about running water ,ambulences and firetrucks?the inaccessibility of those facilities may cause many human lives were disarsters to happen.


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## xizhimen (Jan 16, 2009)

would you like to live in a town where there is no running water,no proper hygiene,no ambulence an firetruck accessibility?china is a country with a very long and rich history,old buildings are everywhere in china,not only in xinjiang ,but china is also modernizing with a unprecedented speed,it happens all across china.


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## octopusop (Feb 10, 2009)

You can add running water and hygiene without destroying the old town, you can dismantle a part of houses to build fire truck passageway. In fact, Kashgar old town never suffered from fire or earthquake disarsters for several hundred years. In other hand, modernizing is not equal to demolishing. You can build brilliant new town to modernize.

The exactly aim of Chinese govt. destroying the Kashgar old town is destroying Islamic and Uyghur characteristic feature. It spend Beijing RMB 7 billion to destroy 7 sq.km. old town, Beijing build characterless buildings for old town inhabitants, just only 1 sq.km. resevered for tourists.


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## octopusop (Feb 10, 2009)

Urumqi is not the center city of Uyghurs, Kashgar is.
90% Uyghurs are living in southern Xinjiang, south and west rim of Tarim Basin. 

Northern Xinjiang, north and east of Tarim Basin, is territory of people of grasslands. The center city is Urumqi (a mongolian word).

In 11th centry, Mongolians conquerred all of the Xinjiang, Uyghurs founded their country in southern Xinjiang in 1514, Mongolians re-conquerred the southern Xinjiang in 1680. Manchu conquerred Mongolians in 1690. Han Chinese inherited sovereignty from Manchu in 1911. That's the simplest history of Xinjiang.


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## YelloPerilo (Oct 17, 2003)

octopusop said:


> ... Urumqi was the only Chinese city who had slums I have ever seen, because of the owners of slums were Uyghurs, govt. could not get rid of them. You can find those slums by the foot of hills in Google Earth.) Most of those southern Uyghurs have an unbalanced mentality.


Yes, the only city in China where I have seen a slum quarter was in Ürümqi. I was quite shocked when I drove by. My driver told me that all of them come from southern xinjiang and built their little huts illegally. Even if the gov. Gives them modern aparments they wouldn't want to move. One reason was that the gov. can control illegal activities much better in modern housing complexes than in the slum quarters. 



octopusop said:


> You can add running water and hygiene without destroying the old town, you can dismantle a part of houses to build fire truck passageway. In fact, Kashgar old town never suffered from fire or earthquake disarsters for several hundred years. In other hand, modernizing is not equal to demolishing. You can build brilliant new town to modernize.
> 
> The exactly aim of Chinese govt. destroying the Kashgar old town is destroying Islamic and Uyghur characteristic feature. It spend Beijing RMB 7 billion to destroy 7 sq.km. old town, Beijing build characterless buildings for old town inhabitants, just only 1 sq.km. resevered for tourists.


Exactly, earthquake is a poor excuse. Money making is olso not the main reason. It's about control. Just like how Napolion commisioned Hausmann to destroyed a large part of medieval Paris and built those grand avenues to better control the rebellious Parsians. But that was also one of the many reasons to reshape "modern" Paris.


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## Pegasusbsb27 (Sep 5, 2005)

China is indeed a patchwork glued by the power of men in arms. I think that will not last forever...And that is the real danger for world's security.


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## YelloPerilo (Oct 17, 2003)

Pegasusbsb27 said:


> China is indeed a patchwork glued by the power of men in arms. I think that will not last forever...And that is the real danger for world's security.


Bullshit, China has been multi-cultural and multi-ethnic for more than 2000 years.


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## xizhimen (Jan 16, 2009)

modernization process is happening everywhere in china,Kashgar is never an isolated case,why some people always try to make some trouble out of it?people deserve better life,no people are supposed to be always living in slums.


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## octopusop (Feb 10, 2009)

xizhimen said:


> modernization process is happening everywhere in china,Kashgar is never an isolated case,why some people always try to make some trouble out of it?people deserve better life,no people are supposed to be always living in slums.


:stupid:A poor brainwashed boy. All of your knowledge are indoctrinated from CPC.


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## JoSin (Sep 11, 2005)

Yes earthquake is just an excuse. These century years old buildings would not have been left standing if they had not been able to withstand all the earthquakes that happened in this earthquake prone zone. so-called.
Yes there must be modernisation, and yes people should not live in slums. But at the very least, do not destroy the heritage, you guys must conserve them. If you want to give those people better living conditions, then make them move out but dont destroy those structures.  Whats the point of having a city with all the buildings that you can see in other parts of the world?


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