# WORLD | High Speed Rail



## Restless (Oct 31, 2009)

*All high speed stakeholders will meet at UIC HIGHSPEED 2010, the 7th world congress on High Speed Rail, 7 – 9 December in Beijing*

*All high speed stakeholders will meet at UIC HIGHSPEED 2010, the 7th world congress on High Speed Rail, 7 – 9 December in Beijing*

*THE CONGRESS THEME: HIGH SPEED RAIL SPEARHEADING GREENER TRANSPORT*
http://www.uic.org/com/article/uic-highspeed-2010-1750?page=thickbox_enews

UIC and the Ministry of Railways (MOR) of the People’s Republic of China are organising UIC HIGHSPEED 2010, the 7th world Congress on High Speed Rail, on 7 – 9 December 2010 in Beijing

UIC HIGHSPEED is widely recognised as the most prominent and large-scale international event in its field and will bring together high-level speakers from countries that operate high speed, countries where high speed construction has either started or will soon be initiated and speakers from countries who are seriously considering introducing high speed. The main aim will be to deliver an overview of the latest achievements and innovations in high speed rail transport and future outlook, and to promote decisions aiming to further implement this efficient and sustainable transport mode.

*Decision-makers from the transport and railway field from all over the world*

The Chairmen of the congress Mr Liu Zhijun, Minister of Railways of China and Mr Yoshio Ishida, UIC Chairman, will officially open the congress on 7 December together with Mr José Blanco, Spanish Transport Minister, Mr Mauro Moretti, CEO of Italian Railways (FS) and UIC Vice-Chairman, Mr He Huawu, Chief Engineer of the Chinese Ministry of Transport (MOR), Mr Huh Joon-Young, CEO of Korail and Chairman of the UIC Asian Regional Assembly (South Korea), Mr Hubert du Mesnil, President of the French Rail Infrastructure Manager (RFF) and Mr Jean-Pierre Loubinoux, UIC Director-General.

Prominent figures will take the floor during these three days, among them:


Mrs Karen Rae, Deputy Administrator, Federal Railroad Administration,
US Department of Transportation -* Mr Guillaume Pepy, President of SNCF (France)
Mr André Navarri, Member of the Presiding Board of the Association of the European Rail Industry (UNIFE) and President and CEO of Bombardier Transportation
Mr Masaki Ogata, Vice-Chairman of East Japan Railway Company
Mr Zbigniew Szafranski, Chairman of the Board PKP Polish Railway Lines Company, Chairman of UIC Rail Systems Forum
Mr Vincenzo Soprano, CEO of Trenitalia (Italy)
Mr Michele Elia, CEO of the Italian Rail Infrastructure Manager and Chairman of the UIC ERTMS Platform (Italy)
Mr Teófilo Serrano Beltrán, Chairman of the Spanish rail operator (RENFE Operadora)
Mr Antonio González Marín, CEO of the Spanish infrastructure manager (ADIF)
Mr Norimichi Kumagai, Executive Director of Railway Technical Research Institute (RTRI Japan)
Mr Zheng Jian, Chief Planning Officer at MOR (P. R. China)
Mrs Barbara Dalibard, CEO of SNCF Voyages
Mr Olaf Mense, ERTMS Marketing Group of UNIFE

This leading conference is organised around two round tables dealing with “High Speed Rail towards the Future” and “High Speed Rail Innovations” respectively. Seven blocks of thirty-five parallel sessions totalling 240 presentations on dedicated topics directly connected with high speed rail development will include:


High Speed Rail and Socio-economic Development: environment, energy and resources, noise and vibrations, economics, financing, territory management
High speed rolling stock: design and manufacturing, use and maintenance, traction power supply
High speed operations: safety and security, standards and interoperability, extreme
and exceptional natural conditions, signalling and communications
High Speed Infrastructure: track maintenance, tunnels & bridges, track components
High Speed and network planning: project management, training and human resources
High Speed and Stations: architecture, high speed and the city, multimodal stations
High Speed Rail and Marketing: service quality, commercial aspects, marketing and distribution
The presentations have been selected by the UIC HIGHSPEED 2010 Scientific Committee chaired by Mr Michel Leboeuf, Director at SNCF and Mr. He Huawu, Chief Engineer at China’s MOR. The Scientific Committee is composed of high-level experts from railway operators, infrastructure managers, rail organisations, research institutes and consultancies.

The Scientific Committee has also set up a special Student Programme and is pleased to welcome students specialising in rail transport at UIC HIGHSPEED 2010 as they are important for the future in general and more specifically for the continued innovation of high speed rail.

*An International railway exhibition in conjunction with “Modern Railways”*

The UIC HIGHSPEED 2010 professional exhibition will be organised in conjunction with the 9th edition of “Modern Railways”, the only large international railway exhibition approved and fully supported by China’s Ministry of Railways (MOR) and the Ministry of Commerce (MOC). “Modern Railways” serves as an important platform for exchange and cooperation for railway manufacturers and railway companies from 20 different countries around the world. Visitors will also have the opportunity to learn about the requirements of China’s railway development, foster partnerships and develop the market.

Technical visits will give participants the opportunity to discover the Chinese railway infrastructure and rolling stock.

The Chinese Academy of Railway of Science (CARS) will handle all logistical concerns relating to the congress.

You can find more information and register on the congress website below: http://www.uic-highspeed2010.com.cn


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## greenlion (Jul 30, 2010)

Pics from Ourail and other Chinese forums

*CRH Family*

*CSR Sifang's CRH380A (left) and CNR Tangshan's CRH380B(2) (right)*

























*CRH380B-6201L, the real train is scheduled to deliver by December 15, 2010*

























*CRH380B VIP Coach, 2nd class coach and dining car*









*HXD & HXN locomotive family*









*CNR section*









*CSR Sction......486.1 km/h*









*HXN5*









*BST's CRH380C (Zefiro380)*









*CRH1A,CRH2C & CRH5A*









*Door of CRH5*









*CRH3C*









*Bogie of CRH3C*









*great Bridge*


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## greenlion (Jul 30, 2010)

*Japan, kingdom of HSR*









*Misubishi*









*JR West*

















*N700*

























*Series 800*









*Hitachi*


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## greenlion (Jul 30, 2010)

*Here comes European Union*

*Alstom*

















































*Siemens*

























*Bombardier, The fastest way to save the planet*









*Faiveley and it's CX-PG pantograph*

















*Espana!*


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## Zero Gravity (Dec 5, 2010)

Those are some damn awesome photos Greenlion! Thx a lot and keep 'em coming. :banana:

Did you take them yourself or did you find them somewhere in the internet?


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## Sopomon (Oct 2, 2010)

greenlion said:


> Pics from Ourail and other Chinese forums
> 
> *CRH Family*
> 
> ...



Oh my god, CRH380B from CNR is hands-down the most beautiful design out of china so far. I always though the 380A looked a little awkward, due to the massive empty grey space on the nose, and the way the coupler doors appear, but the 380B, just wow.
Perfectly proportioned, and it looks so sleek and elegant.


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## foxmulder (Dec 1, 2007)

Awesome updates greenlion 

I think 380A and 380C are the most beautiful ones. Velaro has a distinctive charm, too.


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## Nozumi 300 (Jan 10, 2007)

*nosebleed* lol
I have to say that I'm really liking the 380B. Can't wait to see the 380B and the 380C on the tracks.


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## dumbfword (Apr 27, 2010)

Great pictures! Thank you. :cheers:


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## zergcerebrates (Jan 23, 2004)

I don't like the design of CRH380B. The front looks weak and not aggressive, and the side is nothing but a Velaro, at least change the doors or the windows. The CRH380C now thats a beauty so is the 380A


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## Sopomon (Oct 2, 2010)

zergcerebrates said:


> I don't like the design of CRH380B. The front looks weak and not aggressive, and the side is nothing but a Velaro, at least change the doors or the windows. The CRH380C now thats a beauty so is the 380A


Can't you say much the same for the 380A though? The sides and doors are pretty much identical to those found on the CRH2 (and the shinkansen) The main difference away from the nose in terms of looks is the exterior shell is a less boxy shape for greater strength when comared to the CRH2.

Why am I arguing this?
Everyone's allowed their opinions haha.


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## greenlion (Jul 30, 2010)

Zero Gravity said:


> Those are some damn awesome photos Greenlion! Thx a lot and keep 'em coming. :banana:
> 
> Did you take them yourself or did you find them somewhere in the internet?


Most of the Pics are from Ourail, thanks to generous posters there


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## sotavento (May 12, 2005)

greenlion said:


> *Japan, kingdom of HSR*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ouch ... :cheers:


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## sotavento (May 12, 2005)

Sopomon said:


> Oh my god, CRH380B from CNR is hands-down the most beautiful design out of china so far. I always though the 380A looked a little awkward, due to the massive empty grey space on the nose, and the way the coupler doors appear, but the 380B, just wow.
> Perfectly proportioned, and it looks so sleek and elegant.


Just as long as thy don't decide to go "the spanish way" (painting the entire fleet in some random obnoxious colour somewhere down the line) they are all good looking trains these CRH. :cheers:


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## Knuddel Knutsch (May 4, 2007)

so did they show anything new considerings maglevs?

was SMTD present and did they show their own new maglev?


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## dumbfword (Apr 27, 2010)

sotavento said:


> Ouch ... :cheers:


ouch?


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## Xoser_barcelona (Jul 15, 2008)

sotavento said:


> Just as long as thy don't decide to go "the spanish way" (painting the entire fleet in some random obnoxious colour somewhere down the line) they are all good looking trains these CRH. :cheers:


Sotavento. Si vives en una casa de vidrio, no es muy listo tirar piedras.


Way to go China. Looking forward to my trip in Aug 2011!


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## greenlion (Jul 30, 2010)

*Mouse*









*Russian Railway!*









*KTX - Korean HSR*









*HEMU-400X*

































*Chinese Freight Vehicle,From CRSCS*

























































*DF11 Locomotive, China*


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## Zero Gravity (Dec 5, 2010)

greenlion said:


> *HEMU-400X*


Wow, now this is awesome! Does anyone have more links or videos regarding the HEMU-400X?

And these freight solutions look just as awesome, thanks for sharing again!


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## hmmwv (Jul 19, 2006)

Those special cargo cars remind me of those WWII railway guns. Awesome.


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## LHCHL (Nov 11, 2010)

Anyone info on what kind of "special cargo" those freight trains are transporting? Are they for meeting tunnel clearance requirements or is there some kind of vibration damping?


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## greenlion (Jul 30, 2010)

*IBM, From America!*


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## k.k.jetcar (Jul 17, 2008)

LHCHL said:


> Anyone info on what kind of "special cargo" those freight trains are transporting? Are they for meeting tunnel clearance requirements or is there some kind of vibration damping?


I think they are things like generators or perhaps refinery equipment- highly specialized equipment that must be shipped partially assembled. The special freight cars are built to spread the weight of heavy loads over many axles, so as to prevent damage to railway track and roadbed.


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## Restless (Oct 31, 2009)

k.k.jetcar said:


> I think they are things like generators or perhaps refinery equipment- highly specialized equipment that must be shipped partially assembled. The special freight cars are built to spread the weight of heavy loads over many axles, so as to prevent damage to railway track and roadbed.


The axleload limit is 25tonnes in China, so the highest capacity freight cars can only carry 80tonnes at most.


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## Gadiri (Oct 30, 2009)

*By IUC*


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## Gadiri (Oct 30, 2009)

*High Speed Love*


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## lawdefender (Aug 25, 2013)

*List of high-speed railway length ranking in the world *

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_high-speed_railway_lines

Rank Country In operatiopn (km)

1	China 22000

2	Spain 3100

3	Germany 3038

4	Japan 2765

5	France 2647	

6	Sweden	1706

7	UK 1377

8	Italy 1350

9	South Korea	880

10	Turkey	745


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## lawdefender (Aug 25, 2013)

By 2020, Chinese Transportation system planning:

http://kuaixun.stcn.com/2017/0301/13080910.shtml

High speed railway in operation: 30,000 km

Railway in operation: 150,000 km

Expressway in operation: 150,000 km


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## lawdefender (Aug 25, 2013)

*Electrified Railway Length in Operation Ranking in the World*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_rail_transport_network_size

Rank Country Date of information Electrified Railway Length in Operation(km)

1 China 2016 80,000

2 South Africa 2014 24,800

3 India 2016 23,883

4 Germany	2010 19,973

5 Poland (2008) 17,358

6 Japan 2009 16,702

7 Italy (2007) 16,683

8 France 2008 15,140

9 Ukraine (2010) 9,752

10 Spain (2012) 9,623


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## Gusiluz (Apr 4, 2013)

*China versus the world*

Well, these are my own accounts and as the accounts of the UIC, dated December 31, 2017. In them I separate lines for 250 km/h from the lower speed.



Any clarification, best in each country thread.


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## xalexey (Feb 7, 2014)

lawdefender said:


> *Electrified Railway Length in Operation Ranking in the World*
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_rail_transport_network_size
> 
> ...



Russia (2017) - 104303 km.


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## ArtManDoo (Aug 5, 2008)

Gusiluz said:


> Well, these are my own accounts and as the accounts of the UIC, dated December 31, 2017. In them I separate lines for 250 km/h from the lower speed.
> 
> 
> 
> Any clarification, best in each country thread.


Short notes:
Poland: in my knowledge the max operational speed is 200km/h over the CMK line, length is approximately 225km

Russia: in my knowledge St.Peterburg - Moscow the max speed is lowered to 230km/h and this is applicable for a section with length of 15km to 20km. The other parts of the line are allowed up to 160/200/220 km/h. (the main constraints are heavy mixed traffic on the line/restricting maintenance time and old signaling system not providing enough safety)

I would add Finland, the line Kerava - Lahti (length 76km) opened in 2006 has project speed more than 250km/h and operational speed 220km/h.


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## Gusiluz (Apr 4, 2013)

^^ Thank you!

In Poland I added 80 + 150 + 90 km. It's complicated so I'll check it again.
As for the speed, in some web they spoke of 230 with ETCS 1 on December 14, 2014 but now I only find 200 so it will be like that.

In the Russian case, on the contrary that, for example, in the Northeast Corridor in USA, I wanted to put it among the best lines because of its good average speed (175 km/h, and 194.5 km/h in the 201 km between Bologoe and Chudovo).
But everything is debatable, of course.

In these websites they say that Kerava-Lahti is 63 km, but I did not know, thanks!
https://www.railway-technology.com/projects/finland/
http://enacademic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/3483526

Thank you very much again!


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## lawdefender (Aug 25, 2013)

https://www.goeuro.com/trains/high-speed


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## Gusiluz (Apr 4, 2013)

^^ GoEuro usually publishes impressive graphics ... and very little contrasted.

In Japan they put the Maglev, when it has nothing to do with the railroad.
In France they put a record made by a spawn that does not look at all like a Euroduplex, had more tension, bigger wheels, more motorized boogies (See below V150): like those horizontal rockets with wheels that say they beat speed records in the car.
In China they put the Transrapid (it is not Maglev, it has German origin), but not the one made with a series train (the CRH380A) with changes only in the software: 486 km/h.
In Korea, the maximum speed is 305 km/h.
In Spain the world record (until 2010 with an S-103 Velaro with changes only in the software) is fine, but it has never been circulated to 320 in commercial service, only 310 between 10/24/2011 and 8/17/2016.
Germany / Belgium to 320???? Where? In both countries, the maximum is 300.
And they could have put USA where they circulate to 241 km/h in some sections of the Northeast Corridor.


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## Gusiluz (Apr 4, 2013)

*V150 record*

*Operation V150*, where 150 refers to a target speed in metres per second, by 150 meters per second (540 km/h) that had been proposed to reach at least: Wikipedia:


> TGV 4402 (operation V150) reaching 574 km/h on 3 April 2007 near Le Chemin, France.
> The V150 was a specially configured TGV high-speed train notable for breaking the world land speed record for conventional railed trains on 3 April 2007. The train was built in France and reached a speed of 574.8 kilometres per hour (357.2 mph) on an unopened section of the LGV Est between Strasbourg and Paris, in France topping the previous record of 515.3 kilometres per hour (320.2 mph) set in 1990.
> ...
> The train used for the speed record was code named V150, and comprised three modified Duplex cars, fitted with two powered bogies similar to the AGV prototype, marshalled between a pair of TGV power cars from POS trainset 4402. The train had four more powered axles than trainset 325 used in the 1990 speed record, and had a maximum power output of 19.6 MW (26,300 hp) instead of the 9.3 MW (12,500 hp) on a standard TGV POS. This unusual composition was used to obtain high speed test data on disparate technical elements including the new asynchronous traction motors on the POS power cars, the lightweight synchronous permanent magnet traction motors on the AGV bogies, the actively controlled pantograph, and the Duplex bi-level configuration which had never been used in very high speed trials.
> ...







Source: Iñaki Barrón de Angoiti (in spanish), Director High Speed Department. UIC:


> With regard to the line, the most important modifications introduced consisted in increasing by about ten centimeters the cant of the track in the curves of the zone of maximum speed, in the vicinity of kilometer 191 of the new line, without modifying as it is logical transition curves. These superelevations will be maintained for commercial exploitation, to avoid hitting the road, perfectly stabilized at this time, and given that the values ​​are compatible with circulations with travelers. The catenary, one of the most delicate elements, was tensed with loads of up to four tons instead of the usual 2.6, while the voltage rose from 25 to 31 kV. The capture of current is one of the critical elements of the very high speed and in fact it is usually - even above the power - the factor that ends up limiting speed in this type of tests.
> 
> Regarding the train of tests, for its composition was chosen an existing series material, two new POS and three Duplex trailers that were taken to one of the Alstom factories to be subjected for several months, to extensive operations of transformation. Four more engine bogies were added to the four motor bogies of the end vehicles, in this case coming from the AGV experimental train, which were located in the center of the train, that is, in the place occupied by the only two bogies that share a box. In this way, in some cases with synchronous motors (those corresponding to the AGV) and in others with asynchronous motors (those of the TGV POS motors), six of the eight bogies are motors, with a total power close to twenty megawatts, the double of a normal TGV, although with half the weight. The V150 train has a length of 100 meters and a total weight of 208 tons. The wheels of diameter 1.092 mm, instead of 920, allow to improve even more the benefits. The power is 19.6 megawatts, or more than 25,000 horses, compared to 9.3 megawatts of a conventional TGV. The front "side record" (Paris side) does not have a single opening or slit where the air can sneak. All trapdoors, covers and even front glass, are perfectly sealed. A spoiler that removes stones, something higher than normal, protects the front part of the first bogie and prevents air from entering between the wheels. The roof has also been modified, installing some covers in the place where the pantographs are housed. Only the 25 kV Strasbourg side (that is, the one on the rear in the direction of maximum speeds) is operational. Along the train, special interconnection bellows and plates in the low, ensure greater continuity and homogeneity of the lateral surfaces facing the wind.


He could not even reach the line by his own means: had to be towed by another TGV POS with a special coupling.


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## Silly_Walks (Aug 23, 2010)

So much wrong with that 'info' graphic.


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## bluemeansgo (Oct 28, 2008)

Gusiluz said:


> ^^ GoEuro usually publishes impressive graphics ... and very little contrasted.
> 
> In Japan they put the Maglev, when it has nothing to do with the railroad.


I agree with the lack of contrast. In fact, the graphic isn't to scale. It would NOT have been difficult to actually make it to scale. The left part of the image is not the same scale as the right! And all they'd have to do is chop off the extra on the left. 

Fixed:










As for Japan, the list is the fastest trains, not the fastest railroads... and the L0 series is a train. It's even taken revenue passengers at 505 km/h.



> In France they put a record made by a spawn that does not look at all like a Euroduplex, had more tension, bigger wheels, more motorized boogies (See below V150): like those horizontal rockets with wheels that say they beat speed records in the car.


I wouldn't go as far as to compare it with a rocket sled, but I agree that it was more of a let's see how fast we can go in a straight line kind of record. Impressive number, but not at all sustainable in the real world.


> In China they put the Transrapid (it is not Maglev, it has German origin), but not the one made with a series train (the CRH380A) with changes only in the software: 486 km/h.


Yeah, I noticed that as well. However, the Chinese Shanghai Maglev is still a train. Sure it's a different propulsion method and different gauge track, but it's still a train that runs on a track ( aka. a fixed guideway ).


> In Korea, the maximum speed is 305 km/h.
> In Spain the world record (until 2010 with an S-103 Velaro with changes only in the software) is fine, but it has never been circulated to 320 in commercial service, only 310 between 10/24/2011 and 8/17/2016.
> Germany / Belgium to 320???? Where? In both countries, the maximum is 300.
> And they could have put USA where they circulate to 241 km/h in some sections of the Northeast Corridor.


Yep. Lots of errors.


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## Gusiluz (Apr 4, 2013)

*Load factor*

The load factor as an indicator of the percentage of seats occupied along a route or a service, is one of the most important indicators of how the train fleet is used. It is very difficult that it is very high, because there are many pendular movements that make it interesting to bend a train in one direction ... so that it returns almost empty. And, on the other hand, if the use is too high, it may indicate that many passengers are left on the platform.

The load factor is the result of this operation: passengers.km / seats.km, while the occupation, which is always much higher, is obtained simply by dividing the passengers between the seats. Suppose a train of 100 seats that leaves with 50 passengers and in each of the three stations go up 25 and down another 25. The use will have been 50% (in total and in each of the sections), while the occupation will be 125% (the total number of passengers has been 125). The Russian RZD Sapsan trains have very high figures (92.7% in 2013 84.5% Moscow-St. Petersburg in 2015 and 81.3% in the total of 2016), so I doubt if it will be load factor or occupation, although the same Annual Accounts indicate for 50% of the Allegro service (Saint Petersburg-Helsinki). It can be seen that NTV rose dramatically between 2014 and 2015 which could mean a change between indicators, but the private company, which had serious economic problems at the beginning, carried out a crash plan with reduction of destinations and it is possible that be real (although there is a lot of difference between two consecutive years).

The main source for this table has been Performance and efficiency of high-speed rail systems. Jack E. Doomernik. Lloyd's Register and University of Antwerp, with whose data (Yearly seat-km of fleet and Yearly passenger-km) I got the values of the load factor between 2007 and 2012. The rest comes out of the Annual Accounts or news in media. The German DB only offers the data of all the Long Distance, although it is very similar to that of the ICE trains. In Spain I continued the work of Jack E. Doomernik (Long Distance trains), although I could have put only that of AVE trains, which is higher (75.07% against 69.97 in 2016). In the Shinkansen in 2015 JR West obtained 49.60% and JR Central 64.31%. OUIgo, the low cost version of the French TGV obtained 85% in 2015. In China there were "few" trains in 2009 and afterwards the prices went up a lot, which caused the use to drop; with the new Speed ​​and Price Policy (from the new Minister of Railways in April 2011) it went up ten points in just one year despite the tragic Wenzhou accident on July 23, 2011.
Outside the HS, the French TER trains (MD) vary between 15% and 31% depending on the region, with an average of 25%, and the Transilien was 26%. The Swiss SBB: 28.6% in 2015 and 28.2 in 2017.
Of course I will appreciate any data, if possible with its corresponding source.


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## Gusiluz (Apr 4, 2013)

*Modal share: HST versus airplane*


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## Gusiluz (Apr 4, 2013)

*HS traffic in the world 2010/2018*

HS traffic 2010/2018 in the world according to UIC data:



As usual, the UIC counts only HSR traffic in China, HST traffic on any line is somewhat higher: 2013 221.7 versus 214.1 billion passengers.km. The number of passengers.km increased by +17.8% between 2017 and 2018.
As for the number of passengers, they were 2,005 millions in 2018 and 2,290 in 2019 (+14.2%), and +17.0% compared to 2018 and 2017.
In Korea, France, Germany and Italy the UIC counts the traffic in HST: KTX, TGV, ICE and Frecce+Italo, in this last case includes the buses.

In Taiwan it was 11,994,452,919 passenger-km in 2019 according to Wikipedia.

The total means that the whole of Europe transports 142 billion passengers.km, +2.3%. The U.S. only moves one billion and Turkey doubles it.


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## geogregor (Dec 11, 2006)

There are more and more leaks in recent days indicating that the British government is going to proceed with the HS2 construction. 

As the preparatory works and tenders are already well under way it rather means not stopping project than giving it a go...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51305116



> Sajid Javid has decided to throw his support behind HS2 ahead of a key meeting with Boris Johnson later.
> 
> The chancellor is expected to tell the PM he supports the controversial London to Birmingham rail link after studying Treasury analysis of its impact, as first reported by the Financial Times.
> 
> ...


And a map o the route:


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## Gusiluz (Apr 4, 2013)

Best average speeds by country in the world in December 2019 (own elaboration):


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## Sr.Horn (Jun 11, 2006)

Gusiluz said:


> Best average speeds by country in the world in December 2019 (own elaboration):


Nº4 company is JR East and train type E5-E6 series


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## M-NL (Sep 18, 2012)

When the HSL Zuid was built in the Netherlands the government insisted that the 'local' HST's (Fyra) had to run at 250 km/h to reach the prescribed travel times. Knowing the trade off that a faster train accelerates slower, NS insisted that 220 km/h was enough, but was then forced to buy 250 km/h capable trains, ultimately resulting in the AnsaldoBreda V250 debacle. Now compare the numbers 15, 17, 18 and 19 from the list. They prove you don't need high speed to achieve a high average speed over such short distances. NS was right on the Vmax issue. I'm not going to comment on what NS did wrong during procurement though, because that has already been discussed over and over (and over) again.


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## coth (Oct 16, 2003)

Gusiluz said:


> V150 record


Modified train, higher voltage and it took over 200 km to reach that velocity. Maglev made 580 km/h on 28 km line.


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## pccvspw999 (Aug 13, 2009)

coth said:


> Modified train, higher voltage and it took over 200 km to reach that velocity. Maglev made 580 km/h on 28 km line.


It’s always a modified train or a prototype to put up a record, getting the technology to it’s possible edge. It’s not cheating, it’s always the answer to the question: how can I get faster?
Since the first record at 331 km/h in the 50’s, it took 40 years to get to this speed in normal service. A record was never “normal”.
Btw: it took “only” 73 km to reach the speed (aprox.13 minutes), from km point 264 to 191. It wasn’t possible to accelerate constantly due to the layout of the track.


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## Gusiluz (Apr 4, 2013)

coth said:


> Modified train, higher voltage and it took over 200 km to reach that velocity. Maglev made 580 km/h on 28 km line.


You quote my message by putting only "V150 record".
I put it again with the part where I already detailed that it was a modified train (different is that you read only what interests you):


> ...
> The train used for the speed record was code named V150, and comprised three modified Duplex cars, fitted with two powered bogies similar to the AGV prototype, marshalled between a pair of TGV power cars from POS trainset 4402. The train had four more powered axles than trainset 325 used in the 1990 speed record, and had a maximum power output of 19.6 MW (26,300 hp) instead of the 9.3 MW (12,500 hp) on a standard TGV POS. This unusual composition was used to obtain high speed test data on disparate technical elements including the new asynchronous traction motors on the POS power cars, the lightweight synchronous permanent magnet traction motors on the AGV bogies, the actively controlled pantograph, and the Duplex bi-level configuration which had never been used in very high speed trials.





> Aerodynamic improvements, similar to the 1990 record train, were refined in a wind tunnel and provided a 15% reduction in drag from the standard configuration. These improvements included a front air dam, roof fairings over the pantograph openings, membranes to cover the space between the cars, and a flush-mounted windshield. Over 600 sensors were fitted on various parts of both the engines and the cars. The train set ran with larger wheels with a diameter of 1092 mm instead of 920 mm, to limit the rotational speed of the powertrain.





> With regard to the line, the most important modifications introduced consisted in increasing by about ten centimeters the cant of the track in the curves of the zone of maximum speed, in the vicinity of kilometer 191 of the new line, without modifying as it is logical transition curves. These superelevations will be maintained for commercial exploitation, to avoid hitting the road, perfectly stabilized at this time, and given that the values are compatible with circulations with travelers. The catenary, one of the most delicate elements, was tensed with loads of up to four tons instead of the usual 2.6, while the voltage rose from 25 to 31 kV. The capture of current is one of the critical elements of the very high speed and in fact it is usually - even above the power - the factor that ends up limiting speed in this type of tests.





> Regarding the train of tests, for its composition was chosen an existing series material, two new POS and three Duplex trailers that were taken to one of the Alstom factories to be subjected for several months, to extensive operations of transformation. Four more engine bogies were added to the four motor bogies of the end vehicles, in this case coming from the AGV experimental train, which were located in the center of the train, that is, in the place occupied by the only two bogies that share a box. In this way, in some cases with synchronous motors (those corresponding to the AGV) and in others with asynchronous motors (those of the TGV POS motors), six of the eight bogies are motors, with a total power close to twenty megawatts, the double of a normal TGV, although with half the weight. The V150 train has a length of 100 meters and a total weight of 208 tons. The wheels of diameter 1.092 mm, instead of 920, allow to improve even more the benefits.





> The power is 19.6 megawatts, or more than 25,000 horses, compared to 9.3 megawatts of a conventional TGV. The front "side record" (Paris side) does not have a single opening or slit where the air can sneak. All trapdoors, covers and even front glass, are perfectly sealed. A spoiler that removes stones, something higher than normal, protects the front part of the first bogie and prevents air from entering between the wheels. The roof has also been modified, installing some covers in the place where the pantographs are housed. Only the 25 kV Strasbourg side (that is, the one on the rear in the direction of maximum speeds) is operational. Along the train, special interconnection bellows and plates in the low, ensure greater continuity and homogeneity of the lateral surfaces facing the wind.
> He could not even reach the line by his own means: had to be towed by another TGV POS with a special coupling.


And the HSR and the Maglev look nothing alike.
There are Threads where talking about the Maglev without raising *absurd polemics*.


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## coth (Oct 16, 2003)

pccvspw999 said:


> It’s always a modified train or a prototype to put up a record


No. Not always. Most regional records were done on commercial trains on trial runs, but with no any changes.


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## pccvspw999 (Aug 13, 2009)

coth said:


> No. Not always. Most regional records were done on commercial trains on trial runs, but with no any changes.


I’m talking of world records. “Regional records” are mainly done on purpose of final commissioning for new trains. It’s a different aim. If you want to go further you cannot rely on conventional tecnology.


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## MarcVD (Dec 1, 2008)

You may also want to note that the infrastructure too was specially prepared to support those record attempts. On the french high speed network, the sites for such tests were identified directly at the construction phase and prepared accordingly. Notably, the mechanical tension in the catenary at those places was (and, as far as I know, still is, for it has not been modified afterwards) much higher than usual, so that the catenary undulation travels faster than the train (it would lead to pantograph and catenary destruction if that was not the case). Also, the nearest substations were designed so that the catenary voltage can be raised a few thousand volts higher than the nominal 25kV.


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## Bikes (Mar 5, 2005)

World's fastest high-speed trains in commercial operation in 2021


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## davide84 (Jun 8, 2008)

Just a reminder: the table above displays values which are the results of compromises between trainset capabilities, local laws and timetable optimization by the infrastructure regulator.

As an example, the Italian ETR.400 / Frecciarossa 1000 is capable of commercial speeds of 360 km/h, having been tested up to 400 km/h (+10%).


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## Gusiluz (Apr 4, 2013)

^^ Any source?
Because they've been promising it (and testing) since the Jurassic.


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## Bikes (Mar 5, 2005)

davide84 said:


> Just a reminder: the table above displays values which are the results of compromises between trainset capabilities, local laws and timetable optimization by the infrastructure regulator.
> 
> As an example, the Italian ETR.400 / Frecciarossa 1000 is capable of commercial speeds of 360 km/h, having been tested up to 400 km/h (+10%).


Yes indeed, but in reality, these are the speeds you can experience in each country if you take the fastest option.


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## davide84 (Jun 8, 2008)

Gusiluz said:


> ^^ Any source?
> Because they've been promising it (and testing) since the Jurassic.











Ferrovie.it - Il Frecciarossa 1000 è ancora da record


MILANO - Corre sempre più veloce il Frecciarossa 1000. Nella notte tra il 25 ed il 26 febbraio, il...




www.ferrovie.it





The train proved it can do it, it's the italian lines which are not authorized for speeds higher than 300 km/h.



Bikes said:


> Yes indeed, but in reality, these are the speeds you can experience in each country if you take the fastest option.


I totally agree. I just had the impression that the table was focusing on the train models, and wanted to say that there is more behind those numbers.


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## coth (Oct 16, 2003)

davide84 said:


> Just a reminder: the table above displays values which are the results of compromises between trainset capabilities, local laws and timetable optimization by the infrastructure regulator.
> 
> As an example, the Italian ETR.400 / Frecciarossa 1000 is capable of commercial speeds of 360 km/h, having been tested up to 400 km/h (+10%).


Most of those trains tested with higher speeds and gave higher design speed.


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## Gusiluz (Apr 4, 2013)

The Velaro E proved that it could run at 404 km/h between Alcalá and Calatayud (Spain) on 15/07/2006 (and only with software change, no physical changes) which was a world record until 2010. So what? It was "only" homologated at 350 km/h because you have to drive at 110% of the speed in a maintained way and with a 5 mm slope.

The Italian Wikipedia page says that it reached a maximum of 393.8 kmh, which - even if it had been sustained and with a 5 mm slope - would only serve to homologate at 350 (never at 360).
The fact is that the maximum speed in Italy is 300 kmh. What is easier is that tomorrow the ETR 400 will be homologated for 320 kmh in France.


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## pccvspw999 (Aug 13, 2009)

The world record was 515,3 km/h made by TGV in 1990, and before the ICExperimental made 406,8 km/h in 1988.


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## Gusiluz (Apr 4, 2013)

^^ But didn't you read about the *unmodified *train?








Railway speed record - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org






403.7 km/h (251 mph)2006-07-15Guadalajara-Calatayud,SpainSiemens Velaro E (AVE S-103)MultiSingle phaseUnmod.15–16 July [26][27]


486.1 km/h (302 mph)2010-12-03Beijing–Shanghai HSRChinaCRH380ALMultiSingle phaseUnmod.16-car trainset, near Sùzhōu [24]


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## TER200 (Jan 27, 2019)

Bikes said:


> World's fastest high-speed trains in commercial operation in 2021



In the UK, the maximum speed on the "HS1" line is 300 km/h. Eurostar e320 trains can only run at 320 for a few dozen km on rare occasions when travelling to Marseille (FR) (and I'm not sure they go there regularly, the route is generelly made by an older refurbished e300 limited to 300.
Deutsche Bahn's ICE3 hit their highest speed, 320 km/h, in France on line Est Européenne. (btw, the little picture shows a 250 km/h ICE4)


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## Gusiluz (Apr 4, 2013)

^^ The rest is true, but the website tries to reflect the maximum speed in each country: in Germany the ICE 3 is only 300 and in Hong Kong the MTR380A is only 250 (300 to Guangzhou).


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## pccvspw999 (Aug 13, 2009)

Gusiluz said:


> ^^ But didn't you read about the *unmodified *train?


No, I didn’t.
But I’m not impressed, as I consider only break-through records as real world records.
That serial trains may reach high speeds, or higher speeds than in regular service, as a result of those “real” records, is just a mere consequence.
Do You trust on the fact that those chinese records were made with unmodified, serial trains? I have my concerns.


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## Gusiluz (Apr 4, 2013)

^^ I didn't write "the world record", but "a world record".


Gusiluz said:


> The Velaro E proved that it could run at 404 km/h between Alcalá and Calatayud (Spain) on 15/07/2006 (and only with software change, no physical changes) which was a world record until 2010. So what? It was "only" homologated at 350 km/h because you have to drive at 110% of the speed in a maintained way and with a 5 mm slope.
> 
> The Italian Wikipedia page says that it reached a maximum of 393.8 kmh, which - even if it had been sustained and with a 5 mm slope - would only serve to homologate at 350 (never at 360).
> The fact is that the maximum speed in Italy is 300 kmh. What is easier is that tomorrow the ETR 400 will be homologated for 320 kmh in France.


You thought i were talking about "the world record" and that's why you mentioned the V150. Well, it's OK, it's fine.

I know that the one on the Velaro E was made with a completely standard train to which the software was changed so that it would not cut power when it reached a certain %.
I also know that there has been a lot of bad talk about Chinese records. But I have seen no evidence.
I also know that the CRH380A/D trains were approved at 380 km/h (even though they never drove at that commercial speed), which means a sustained speed of, at least, 418 km/h.

And all this is tiring, very tiring.


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## pccvspw999 (Aug 13, 2009)

Sorry, but “a world record”, that world record, is meaningless, at least for me. You can invent a world record as you may prefer, for any cathegory, but a world record shall be an absolute value.
Btw one question: were the Velaro E, the CRH380A/B the first trainsets of their kind? Because the “head of series” differ quite often respect to their successors. They are also prototypes and different. If not, than I can consider those trainsets nothing more than the fastest trainset of their kind, surely a world record on it’s own
Not to forget: a record train may be identical to it’s brothers, but are the boundary conditions also standard?
That been said IMHO, of course.


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## davide84 (Jun 8, 2008)

coth said:


> Most of those trains tested with higher speeds and gave higher design speed.


I know! Again: that was my point 



Gusiluz said:


> The Italian Wikipedia page says that it reached a maximum of 393.8 kmh, which - even if it had been sustained and with a 5 mm slope - would only serve to homologate at 350 (never at 360).
> The fact is that the maximum speed in Italy is 300 kmh. What is easier is that tomorrow the ETR 400 will be homologated for 320 kmh in France.


All correct.

Sorry, the ETR 400 was just an example, I did not mean to start a whole discussion, I just thought that the table title "world's fastest trains" was a bit imprecise. I would have better called it "world's fastest services", that's it.

(There are other imprecisions which likely made me a little pedantic, e.g. the ETR 500 travels regularly at 300 km/h in Italy as well; the ETR 470s are not yet in service in Greece and they ran at 250 km/h in Italy...)


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## foxmulder (Dec 1, 2007)

pccvspw999 said:


> No, I didn’t.
> But I’m not impressed, as I consider only break-through records as real world records.
> That serial trains may reach high speeds, or higher speeds than in regular service, as a result of those “real” records, is just a mere consequence.
> Do You trust on the fact that those chinese records were made with unmodified, serial trains? I have my concerns.



Why do you have concerns? lol. They were not modified. That was the point of those tests: to test the product that was going to enter the service. They were not trying to break a record. 

Also, the fastest commercial train set is a very cool title as far as records go.


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## [email protected] (Jul 25, 2010)




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## urbanflight (Dec 12, 2018)

*China and Japan Race to Dominate Future of High-Speed Rail*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1331863781224419328


> Japan and China are racing to build a new type of ultra-fast, levitating train, seeking to demonstrate their mastery over a technology with big export potential.
> 
> Magnetic levitation, or maglev, trains use powerful magnets to glide along charged tracks at super fast speeds made possible by the lack of friction. A handful of short distance and experimental maglev trains are already in operation, but Asia’s two biggest economies are vying to develop what would be the world’s first long-distance intercity lines.


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## Canucklehead83 (Apr 28, 2020)

I really wish SOMEONE here in Canada would partner with the Chinese to develop either a conventional HSR or Maglev network... Sigh...


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## Gusiluz (Apr 4, 2013)

Article written by me (in Spanish) on the *Geotrén *website on Talgo's exports (HST, push-pull trains, locomotive-hauled trains), including legal problems with the new governor of Wisconsin and some curiosities that were not made by Talgo but by Škoda.
Argentina, Bosnia, Denmark, Egypt, Finland, Germany, Italy (failed), Kazakhstan, Russia, Saudi Arabia, USA (Washington, Oregon, Wisconsin, California) and Uzbekistan.









Análisis de las principales exportaciones de la compañía Talgo


Poco a poco Talgo ha ido completando un amplio catálogo de material ferroviario, que incluye ramas (composiciones remolcadas sin locomotora), ramas con remolque-cabina (en uno de los extremos, para…



www.geotren.es


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## Gusiluz (Apr 4, 2013)

Article written by me (in Spanish) on the *Geotrén *website on the New Silk Road, and high speed lines out of Europe:









Nueva Ruta de la Seda, y alta velocidad fuera de Europa


Además de la Nueva Ruta de la Seda para mercancías, y las redes de alta velocidad de China y Japón, hay muchos otros proyectos de alta velocidad (algunos en obras) repartidos por el mundo y que son…



www.geotren.es


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## Gusiluz (Apr 4, 2013)

Article written by me (in Spanish) on the *Geotrén *website on *Talgo*'s innovative techniques in the late 1940s and influences on *American trains in the 1950*s.









Influencias de Talgo en trenes de otros países (1ª parte)


Existe la percepción de que el diseño norteamericano influyó en el Talgo II, pero creo que más bien fue al revés. Quizás lo parezca por las radicales diferencias entre el exterior del Talgo I y el …



www.geotren.es


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## Gusiluz (Apr 4, 2013)

Article written by me (in Spanish) on the *Geotrén *website on the consumption, emissions and external costs of high speed rail compared to cars, planes and even conventional trains.









Consumos energéticos y emisiones de la alta velocidad ferroviaria


Se suele hablar de la alta velocidad como una «depredadora de energía», pero sus detractores emplean fórmulas que solo sirven para el automóvil, un vehículo muy distinto. Tampoco se suele tener en …



www.geotren.es


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## M-NL (Sep 18, 2012)

Great piece, but I do have remark about this graphic:








From this graphic you could get this impression that AC power is significantly more efficient. It isn't.
Actually a DC powered train is always more efficient then an AC powered train, because it doesn't have an onboard transformer and rectifier.
The onboard transformer and rectifier usually have efficiencies in the 92% (15kV) to 95% (25kV) range (source), so the efficiency of a AC powered train should be lowered to 82%-86% (or the DC efficiency equally raised, which I don't believe). This graphic also only considers 25 kV. For a 15 kV system you either need a separate power grid or you need to change the frequency, which will probably lower efficiency by another 3% or so.

Thus the 3kV DC system actually provides the best overall efficiency from power plant to rail, as long as you avoid high currents (roughly over 3000A). High currents require thicker wires and will cause wires to heat up causing extra losses. To limit these transport losses you need a lot of extra substations. And 3000A at 3kV is 'just' 9MW, which is just enough for one 8-car ICE3 or TGV set. (There are systems to go up to 5000A, but that will cause extra losses). And those losses add up quickly for lower voltage systems.

And that is where the biggest of advantage of AC is. They require less substations, have the ability to provide more power (1500A at 25 kV equals roughly 34 MW) and the smaller diameter, lighter overhead lines are better suited for high speed trains. But as said, more efficient then DC, that AC is definitely not.

Some further reading on this subject: Here's Why DC Is Used in Most Trains Over AC and Electric Traction Systems.


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## pccvspw999 (Aug 13, 2009)

I have another issue with that graph: when it compares the efficiency of electric traction to thermal traction it doesn't care how efficient it is to produce the electricity itself. It considers electricity as a primary source of energy, which obviously is not.


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## dyonisien (Aug 30, 2010)

M-NL said:


> [...] you could get this impression that AC power is significantly more efficient. It isn't.
> Actually a DC powered train is always more efficient then an AC powered train, because it doesn't have an onboard transformer and rectifier.
> [...] But as said, more efficient then DC, that AC is definitely not.
> 
> Some further reading on this subject: Here's Why DC Is Used in Most Trains Over AC and Electric Traction Systems.


Then it remains to be explained why ALL new main line electrifications are in 20/25 kV 50/60Hz.
There is no 'magic' border with 3000A. Just the higher the intensity, the higher the losses, so the 9MW require only 360A under 25kV and accordingly less losses than under 3kV.
Regenerative braking should also be taken into account. DC substations have to be equipped with thyristors to allow it outside very densely circulated metro systems. 15kV 17Hz with a separate power grid accept it from the beginning.
Otherwise, where the national grid doesn't 'like' phase angle difference of the regenerated power, power electronics on traction engines is nowadays able to solve the problem.
So, more efficient than AC, DC is definitely not.
That is why DC is still chosen for metros and some (sub)urban lines where isolation distances matter...
The cited article, although published in 2020 (!!!) doesn't help very much, lacking any technical requirement.


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## M-NL (Sep 18, 2012)

dyonisien said:


> Then it remains to be explained why ALL new main line electrifications are in 20/25 kV 50/60Hz.
> There is no 'magic' border with 3000A. Just the higher the intensity, the higher the losses, so the 9MW require only 360A under 25kV and accordingly less losses than under 3kV.


All things considered the pros outweigh the cons and AC is the better, albeit overal less efficient, system for heavy rail.
There is indeed no magic border. Just the concept that when you do not run high current through wires that are designed for high current, they don't get that hot and have less losses.

Those 360A you state are transported over much thinner wires, so you can't simply state there will be less losses.

Under DC you can simply multiply voltage and current to get power, under AC you also need to multiply that number by the equipment power factor. The power factor is the reason you only get about 3300W from an average 230VAC 16A plug socket, instead of the 3680W you may expect. I don't know the exact power factor of an actual train, but for an inverter driven motor something in the 0.92 range is not uncommon, so I assumed that value for my example. In your case 9MW would then actually require about 390A or 360A would give you about 8.3MW.


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## 1584247 (Mar 6, 2021)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1373326961909530625


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## Kielbus (Dec 12, 2018)

gksc said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1373326961909530625











A generational failure: As the U.S. fantasizes, the rest of the world builds a new transport system


Tomorrow, two high-speed rail lines open in France, providing new corridors for trains to slice through the countryside at 200 mph (320 km/h). One is a 302-kilometer link that will connect Paris to…



www.thetransportpolitic.com


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## Kielbus (Dec 12, 2018)

gksc said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1373326961909530625











Bullet Trains and the Future of Passenger Rail


Seminar looks at California’s HSR project, the Biden Administration, and passenger trains in America




cal.streetsblog.org


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## Kielbus (Dec 12, 2018)




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## 437.001 (Mar 27, 2009)

Malaga (Spain) to Amsterdam (Netherlands) in one day by train.
Is this possible?


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## M-NL (Sep 18, 2012)

From Malaga to Barcelona takes 6h7m by AVE, then it takes 6h41m from Barcelona to Paris by SNCF/Renfe TGV and finally 3h28m from Paris to Amsterdam by Thalys. Unfortunately these services don't connect well at all.
The most annoying is that the TGV from Barcelona to Paris leaves at 10:05, while the AVE from Malaga, that departed 06:30 with a change in Madrid, arrives at 12:37.
Maybe when in the near future all train services are restored or when night services get restarted it would be possible.

Edit: A direct return flight with TUI takes 3h20m and costs €114. Just the train ticket from Malaga to Barcelona is already €125.


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## Stuu (Feb 7, 2007)

What is the furthest possible distance in Europe on normal day trains in one day I wonder?


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## M-NL (Sep 18, 2012)

I would guess something in the 1650 to 1700 km range. That's London, Hamburg or Berlin to Naples. But remember that is an average speed of below 70 km/h. All those bad connections are killing when you want to travel far quickly.


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## SSCreader (May 6, 2015)

Let's do some calculations:

One litre of unleaded gas produces 2.3 kg of CO₂
The tax on this is 0.8 € in Netherlands, 0.6€ in Belgium, 0.68€ in France, 0.5€ in Spain
The tax on kerosene for airplanes is currently 0€ everywhere
The direct flight from Amsterdam to Malaga produces between 203 to 257 kg of CO₂

So if kerosene for the airplanes was taxed with similar levels as private cars, we would add 44€ for the best case (best planes, spanish taxes), and 89€ for the worst case (worst planes, netherlands taxes). Of course, this would be even worse if the flight is not direct, as takeoff is the most energy-intensive part of a flight.

However, it appears that one target for the CO₂ tax for 2030 is between 50$ and 100$ per ton, which corresponds to 0.1€ to 0.2€ tax per litre of unleaded gas. In this case, we would only add between 9€ and 18€ to the flight.

As a result, CO₂ taxing will not change the choice between plane and train for this type of flight. It may have an impact if the rates start to align with the car rates, but will have almost no effect even with the highest proposed CO₂ tax.

And that is before the Irish veto to protect Ryanair...


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## M-NL (Sep 18, 2012)

EcoPassenger


> EcoPassenger is a well balanced, transparent and scientifically sound method of environmental comparisons, showing a standardized comparison of the major transport modes.


Interesting side note: All those low cost carriers have the newest most efficient planes, because despite fuel not being taxed, it still is one of their biggest expenses. And their business models also only work with high utilization, which is why Covid all hits them pretty hard.


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## The Wild Boy (Apr 5, 2020)

Eurostar to launch high-speed trains between London, Germany


The combined network of Eurostar and Thalys would link five countries under the new Green Speed banner.




www.executivetraveller.com


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## geogregor (Dec 11, 2006)

SSCreader said:


> As a result, CO₂ taxing will not change the choice between plane and train for this type of flight. It may have an impact if the rates start to align with the car rates, but will have almost no effect even with the highest proposed CO₂ tax.
> 
> And that is before the Irish veto to protect Ryanair...


No need to pick on the Irish. The truth is that most countries don't want to tax airline fuel too high. There simply isn't any appetite for major changes. Especially nowadays when post pandemic governments are quite keen for aviation sector to recover and when fuel prices are reaching record levels.


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## M-NL (Sep 18, 2012)

geogregor said:


> The truth is that most countries don't want to tax airline fuel too high.


A lot of countries would love to tax airplane fuel, but are hesitant, because it could pose a risk for the big international hub airport(s) in their countries.
If the EU were to impose such a tax, that could be beneficial for major hub airports such as Heathrow or Istanbul.


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## Gintaras (Sep 19, 2019)

*Kraków to Warsaw with PKP Pendolino high-speed train*


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## VITORIA MAN (Jan 31, 2013)

High speed 200 km/h?


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## Kielbus (Dec 12, 2018)




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## Sunfuns (Mar 26, 2012)

Any of you have an overview about likely opening of new lines in 2023? Outside China I can only think of the one in Indonesia.


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## Kielbus (Dec 12, 2018)

Home - UIC HIGHSPEED congress


UIC HIGHSPEED 2023 - 11th UIC High-Speed Congress: 7-10 March 2023 - Convention Center, Marrakesh, Morocco - UIC and ONCF




uichighspeed.org


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## Kielbus (Dec 12, 2018)

https://uic.org/spip.php?action=telecharger&arg=3456


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## Stuu (Feb 7, 2007)

Sunfuns said:


> Any of you have an overview about likely opening of new lines in 2023? Outside China I can only think of the one in Indonesia.


The Pajares tunnel and approach lines in northern Spain is supposedly opening in 2023


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## leftieboarder (Feb 9, 2008)

Sunfuns said:


> Any of you have an overview about likely opening of new lines in 2023? Outside China I can only think of the one in Indonesia.


Ankara-Sivas in TR is supposed to open this year, but having been delayed by a couple of years already I wouldn't hold my breath.


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