# The roundabout thread



## tritown

Where I live, roundabouts are replacing four-way stops all over the place. I find them to be more efficient and less dangerous than four-way stops, especially if it is well-planned and the drivers know what they are doing (which is unfortunately too often not the case)

What do you guys think about roundabouts over four way stops, or even traffic signals?


----------



## luv2bebrown

here in dubai, when the city initially followed the british road system, roundabouts were built everywhere. they are horrible and cause heavy traffic when too many cars are on the roads. many roundabouts in dubai are being demolished and replaced with free flow intersectinos.

the american model of traffic lights every 100m is even worse.

basically what im saying is, there isnt really a good system that exists that can handle heavy traffic loads.


----------



## Brett

I like roundabouts i think they are easier to use and better then stoplights or signs in some places, but diffinetly not all!


----------



## stanford

Here in Boston.. we call them rotaries. Are they called roundabouts everywhere else?

In any case.. I like them a lot although we 'Masshole' drivers sometimes forget rotary etiquette (for example.. entering the rotary without looking at 40 mph? an all too common sight)


----------



## PotatoGuy

i like roundabouts, they make a city look nice, they help in traffic, and theyre jz cool, we shud have more in the US


----------



## NothingBetterToDo

roundabouts are very efficient as long as everyone knows what they are doing, and providing there arent too many of them (in which case it just becomes confusing to find your way around).


----------



## CHI

I'm going to be honest; I hate roundabouts.


----------



## firmanhadi

They take up too much space and highly inefficient, unless you can put something grand in them (like Arc de Triomphe or Cibeles Fountain) to help beautify the city.


----------



## spyguy

People normally don't know what they're doing and cause problems or accidents on or near them.


----------



## DonQui

firmanhadi said:


> They take up too much space and highly inefficient, unless you can put something grand in them (like Arc de Triomphe or Cibeles Fountain) to help beautify the city.


You've got a point. 

I don't know, I do not drive enough to know how much a pain in the ass it is to drive through a roundabout. In New York, there are always horns honking as people are trying to make lefts while having to go through oncoming traffic. In this case, perhaps roundabouts (or circles as we call them in NYC) would be more efficient.

In New York, the main circle that sticks out in my mind is Columbus Circle:










Aside from that, New York City is not very big on roundabouts.


----------



## miptag

i think they are a good idea but as was said before if people know what they are doing. where i am at they are building two of them but people are clueless as to what to do it seems and to what a yield sign is :bash: and in some cases what no signs at all means


----------



## FM 2258

CHI said:


> I'm going to be honest; I hate roundabouts.



Me too. Multi-level freeway intersections are where it's at.


----------



## Jaye101

CHI said:


> I'm going to be honest; I hate roundabouts.


I'm with you Chi.


----------



## demanjo

I love round abouts. There are many cases however, where traffic lights are the only way to go. But in smallish towns, in all but the heaviest intersections, round abouts are great.



> highly inefficient, unless you can put something grand in them


i dont understand the connection?


----------



## aatbloke

tritown said:


> Where I live, roundabouts are replacing four-way stops all over the place. I find them to be more efficient and less dangerous than four-way stops, especially if it is well-planned and the drivers know what they are doing (which is unfortunately too often not the case)
> 
> What do you guys think about roundabouts over four way stops, or even traffic signals?



I recently read this was going to be happening in parts of north-east Ohio, too. Being from the UK, I love roundabouts; they allow for smooth traffic flow compared with row upon row of traffic lights and help ease congestion. The only downside is that can also cause congestion during rushhour periods if all the traffic is going one way; in the UK they counter-act this on very large roundabouts with traffic signals on the roundabout itself.

As for taking up space; they take up far less space than an intersection with slip roads as some have suggested here. Certainly in Britain, many are beautified by local authorities with flower beds, sculptures and other items of interest.


----------



## Rupmulalauk

I hate roundabouts especially those with 3 or more lanes where drivers couldn't stick to theirs! :bash:


----------



## aCidMinD81

No, they're not a good idea.

8 PM Valencia, SPAIN


----------



## marathon

^ I agree with this guy...


----------



## JDRS

If people know what they're doing they are a good idea. As aatbloke says traffic lights can be put on roundabouts if it becomes too busy at certain periods. They're used alot here, and Milton Keynes is renowned for the number of roundabouts they have. I have a roundabout near me nicknamed the "magic roundabout" that goes in two directions. Confuses many people.


----------



## Æsahættr

IF people are good drivers, then yes


----------



## sargeantcm

Traffic Circles (or Rotaries) are a totally different breed of intersections than roundabouts. The primary difference is that circles and rotaries are usually designed for speed, and are huge. Modern roundabouts, on the other hand, as designed as a method of "traffic calming", or slowing people down. And they take up just slightly more space than a conventional intersection. They have their downsides too, but that are much safer and efficient IF people know how to drive them. Which in the US is not often.

I know because I've designed a couple of them, they pretty interesting to design, actually.


----------



## firmanhadi

demanjo said:


> i dont understand the connection?


 Well, I'll rephrase: Traffic circles are inefficient, although they can be useful as places to put important landmarks.


----------



## DonQui

firmanhadi said:


> Well, I'll rephrase: Traffic circles are inefficient, although they can be useful as places to put important landmarks.


For example:

Plaza Cibeles in Madrid:










Place de Charles de Gaulle, Paris


----------



## smeghead

sargeantcm said:


> Traffic Circles (or Rotaries) are a totally different breed of intersections than roundabouts. The primary difference is that circles and rotaries are usually designed for speed, and are huge. Modern roundabouts, on the other hand, as designed as a method of "traffic calming", or slowing people down. And they take up just slightly more space than a conventional intersection. They have their downsides too, but that are much safer and efficient IF people know how to drive them. Which in the US is not often.
> 
> I know because I've designed a couple of them, they pretty interesting to design, actually.


Exactly. If you do a little bit of legwork in the research you'll find that they're fundamentally different. The biggest different in my opinion is not size - There's plenty of roundabouts that serve as one giant freeway interchange:

and there's numerous roundabouts about 7 feet (2 metres) in diameter - there's two, a very short drive from me.


The real difference lies in the way they're used. Rotaries or traffic circles don't exist in Australia - well that I know of anyway. But rotaries work on the basis that any traffic entering into the rotary have right-of-way, so any traffic already in the circle has to give way/yield to entering traffic. Rotaries are also chaotic because there are no lanes for people to stick to leading to accidents. Also drivers are unwilling to yield when they believe (rightly or wrongly) that the traffic entering won't cross their path. Also in a rotary you tend to weave a bit to get to your exit.

When approaching a roundabout, you must give way to any traffic already in the roundabout. You can tell which way they're going by looking at their indicator. This allow queues to be on the approach rather than in the circle itself - which could cause the traffic circle to have severe blockages because there's too much traffic in the circle and no-one in the circle can get out.

That animation is not really correct, because the lanes within the roundabout aren't shown. moist roundabouts are single-lane so you don't traffic within the roundabout crossing paths. But how double-laned roundabouts work perfectly confounds me. But what you do is when approaching and entering the round about from say the left lane, you stay in the left lane when moving around the roundabout. Generally, the left lane is for traffic going straight or turning left, and the right lane is for going straight or turning right. And you don't get too much weaving because all aproaches must giveway/yield to existing traffic anyway so you don't get that mess you see in rotaries.

See the road rule's for New South Wales Roads and Traffic Authority for a guide on how to use a roundabout. There's some neat diagrams for you to follow too. http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregulations/roundabouts.html


----------



## Daffy

There are plenty of roundabouts on both arterial and local roads where I live. 

They work reasonably well for cars but there is still a hangover from an old "Give way to the right" intersection management that applied here until the 1970s. Many drivers approach the roundabouts at 40 or 50kph and expect everyone ahead of them (including those already at the intersection) to give way. 

The biggest losers with local roundabouts are pedestrians; where they used to have right of way on the priority road at an intersection, it has been taken away and they must give way to all traffic. In addition, the creation of large traffic islands has eaten into footpath space and forced pedestrians around a longer crossing route, sometimes with reduced visibility of approaching traffic. 

I wonder why it is necessary to install an island to create a roundabout? - The roundabout traffic movement principles would still apply if there were a only a pole and /or a small island in the middle of the intersection and strict approach speed limits applied.


----------



## Cee_em_bee

Round abouts are great for small suburban roads that handle moderate traffic but when they use them for big roads that handle heave traffic they are less then desirable. They are most definately better then traffic lights though especially in the suburban areas.


----------



## Jonesy55

sargeantcm said:


> They have their downsides too, but that are much safer and efficient IF people know how to drive them. Which in the US is not often.


Lots of people are saying that drivers in the US don't know how to use them, don't you learn that in your driving test?



Daffy said:


> I wonder why it is necessary to install an island to create a roundabout? - The roundabout traffic movement principles would still apply if there were a only a pole and /or a small island in the middle of the intersection and strict approach speed limits applied.


There are many "mini-roundabouts in the UK, often just a painted circle in the middle of the intersection, normal roundabout rules apply










This is the "King of Roundabouts" the Magic Roundabout in Swindon, UK. Five mini-roundabouts surronding a larger hub roundabout!!


----------



## Obelixx

How do you think about this roundabout? Unfortunately I do not know, where it is! ( http://www.brueckenweb.de/Datenbank/unbekannte/ausgabe_lex.php )


----------



## moving to London

damm that thing in Swindon looks confusing but i would disagree its the king of roundabouts, that one has to go to the Arc de triomph in Paris, it's also gotta be the most dangerous, people drive at it and dn't even hit the brake they just drive into a six lane roundabout with thier hand constantly on the horn.


----------



## firmanhadi

Jonesy55 said:


> Lots of people are saying that drivers in the US don't know how to use them, don't you learn that in your driving test?


 Not in Illinois and New York.


----------



## nikko

I feel they are outdated and cause accidents. 

Suburban streets that don't have the numbers to support traffic lights, thats fine but major roads really shouldn't have roundabouts.


----------



## NerveAgent

In the UK we pretty much have to have them because we have lots of roads crossing all at weird angles and stuff. Obviously you have to learn them for your driving test so the generally work out more effiecient than traffic lights because you only have to stop sometimes and if you do stop its generally only for a few seconds. As has been said on roundabouts where many people take the same exit you often get traffic lights or temporary traffic lights that operate during rush hour.

They are particulaly fun to go round sideways at 4 am


----------



## london-b

JDRS said:


> If people know what they're doing they are a good idea. As aatbloke says traffic lights can be put on roundabouts if it becomes too busy at certain periods. They're used alot here, and Milton Keynes is renowned for the number of roundabouts they have. I have a roundabout near me nicknamed the "magic roundabout" that goes in two directions. Confuses many people.


I live near Milton Keynes, too many roundabouts!!!!!! Everywere looks the same, so easy to get lost, overall a characterless dump


----------



## miamicanes

Roundabouts were great for big cities back when people still rode horses, because horses were smart enough not to walk into into one another. For cars... well... the paradigm just doesn't quite work as well. The only new ones that seem to get built in the US are in residential neighborhoods that put them there PRECISELY because they screw up the traffic flow and scare drivers away.

There are a few wacky 5 and 6-way intersections in the Miami area that apparently used to be roundabouts when they were built back in the 1920s and 1930s... but now they have traffic lights that are almost as dysfunctional. There's just no good way to handle a busy 5-way intersection, period, and the idiot who put it there it in the first placee (apparently, because the developer thought they looked pretty on the map and marketing brochures) hopefully had an extra-toasty spot in hell reserved for him


----------



## kiretoce

I like roundabouts, only in residential areas and suburbs, but not in heavily urban/inner city centers.


----------



## Guest

Jonesy55 said:


> This is the "King of Roundabouts" the Magic Roundabout in Swindon, UK. Five mini-roundabouts surronding a larger hub roundabout!!


Just looking at these circles makes me wanna barf, makes me sick. :nuts: uke:


----------



## Dezz

Where I live, in the Netherlands, there are roundabouts everywhere! I really like them. Last year I was in Caïro and this is a very busy roundabout there.


----------



## NerveAgent

here is a "bog standard" roundabout you will come across on pretty much any journey you make in the UK outside of the town centres. They are nice and simple I think.


----------



## Dan88

Roundabout in Melbourne with Tram tracks going through the middle:


----------



## invincible

NerveAgent said:


> here is a "bog standard" roundabout you will come across on pretty much any journey you make in the UK outside of the town centres. They are nice and simple I think.


These are everywhere in Australia too - it's a lot safer than a plain intersection where you're giving way to high speed traffic, and they generally get replaced with traffic lights when there is enough traffic. And like in the photo above, they're good at intersections that have several roads forking out in different directions, where traffic lights would be very confusing.

Roundabouts are fine if people know how to use them properly (and use their indicators too). It's a different story for pedestrians and cyclists, but a few have pedestrian crossings on all approaches.


----------



## Maxx☢Power

RawLee said:


> I'm afraid of using the inner lanes on multi-lane roundabouts. I dont really know why,because even if other drivers make me skip my exit,I can just go around again...


Especially when some morons come up from behind honking and hanging out of the windows going _between_ the two lanes, as happened to me a few days ago.

I find that most of the time when there's not that much traffic, most people tend to kind of just drive in the middle, using both lanes. I do it myself too if there are no other cars around me..


----------



## DanielFigFoz

My opinion on roundabouts is that they are good in most cases, although there are other cases that would be better with traffic lights. Also there are traffic lights that should be roundabouts.


----------



## nerdly_dood

My opinion about roundabouts is this - They work reasonably well in Europe, so good for you. In Virginia, however, a roundabout would undoubtedly cause precisely what it's designed to avoid: Traffic would come to a standstill. 

Nobody around here knows how to drive a roundabout if there's a substantial amount of traffic - I once went through one with a quite insubstantial amount of traffic in north-central Virginia, and several times through one without much traffic, north of Charlottesville (never driven one myself) - if one was built in Roanoke, traffic would come to a standstill as confused drivers try to do what they haven't been trained to do (I took a driver's ed classroom portion a year ago, and not once was the word "roundabout" mentioned) and, quite possibly, several fender-benders.

One type of roundabout that would be vastly worse than stuck traffic and a few fender-benders is one of those hellish multi-roundabouts like this one - if I had to drive through that, I'd just say a quick prayer and drive straight through it if there was no traffic - if there was any traffic I'd turn around and try to get a way around it on side streets.

The only type of roundabout that I think would actually work would be a giant highway roundabout, with onramps rather than intersecting roads - highway merging is something that IS taught and performed frequently around here.


----------



## Verso

nerdly_dood said:


> My opinion about roundabouts is this - They work reasonably well in Europe, so good for you. In Virginia, however, a roundabout would undoubtedly cause precisely what it's designed to avoid: Traffic would come to a standstill.


Are Americans/Virginians stupid? After you use roundabouts a few times, you should get used to them. Roundabouts aren't here since always either. They're much better than intersections in many cases, so why not use it? Aren't Americans the innovative nation?


----------



## ttownfeen

I think single-lane roundabouts in low-speed roads would do fine in the US.


----------



## LtBk

There is a roundabout nearby that has been around for almost a decade, and people still don't know to use one. What's worse is that use of turn signals when exiting out of the roundabout is nonexistent.


----------



## deranged

Verso said:


> After you use roundabouts a few times, you should get used to them. Roundabouts aren't here since always either. They're much better than intersections in many cases, so why not use it? Aren't Americans the innovative nation?


I agree - it's like saying "I invented the wheel, so I know how to use it. But no-one else should use it because they don't know how."



nerdly_dood said:


> In Virginia, however, a roundabout would undoubtedly cause precisely what it's designed to avoid: Traffic would come to a standstill.
> 
> Nobody around here knows how to drive a roundabout [...] traffic would come to a standstill as confused drivers try to do what they haven't been trained to do [...] I took a driver's ed classroom portion a year ago, and not once was the word "roundabout" mentioned


You've solved your own problem. If American drivers were taught how to use them, roundabouts would function no differently from anywhere else.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Roundabouts are actually not much different than a regular "give way" intersection.

However, I think many American roads are too busy for roundabouts. Above 15,000 AADT, they become less useful with queues often, and multilane highways are also not very well to have roundabouts on, giant multilane roundabouts are not very effective.


----------



## KiwiGuy

New Zealand has plenty of roundabouts and even has little things like switching your turning signal on when leaving one after going through one. Unfortuneatly where I live, multilaned roundabouts are springing up everywhere and since my city is like a giant retirement home (full of old people), they easily get confused.
Pity.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

Sometimes there's just too many of them. This is Tondi street in Tallinn:


----------



## Billpa

nerdly_dood said:


> In Virginia, however, a roundabout would undoubtedly cause precisely what it's designed to avoid: Traffic would come to a standstill.


Please. If people in Virginia can yield to traffic coming from the left then they can navigate a roundabout. If they can't then they should surrender their drivers licenses to the commonwealth by close of business today.


----------



## Glodenox

Roundabouts aren't hard to drive on *at all*. Personally, I just gained my driving license 2 months ago and not a single time have I felt fear on one of them. I can understand that if you've never seen them, it's a strange experience, but once you understand the concept (the traffic on the roundabout has to keep flowing to keep the roundabout efficient), there's little more to know about it. Their basic design is there exactly to prevent just what you said: a standstill. The traffic will keep flowing if they're used as they should be (give way to those on the roundabout and only squeeze in if there's room).

A series of roundabouts isn't always efficient indeed. Looking at the picture posted by Rebasepoiss, I can see that the roundabouts are used for accessing the streets with just homes. That's not a situation where you should lay a roundabout: there's more traffic going in one direction than the other directions. The only reason why they'd do that would be "because it looks modern".

Greetings,
Glodenox


----------



## Rebasepoiss

^^ The official explanation, I believe, was to "calm down traffic"....


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, roundabouts are often abused for traffic calming purposes. Maybe a plateau was better in this case.


----------



## Glodenox

Oh right, forgot about that possibility... A plateau would've been much better then indeed.

Over here they like to put obstacles on the road, which result in you having to slow down if someone is coming from the other direction, but I hate those. Those obstacles only result in accidents and can severely disturb the flow of the traffic once it gets busy.

Greetings,
Glodenox


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> However, I think many American roads are too busy for roundabouts.


Maybe, but many aren't.



LtBk said:


> There is a roundabout nearby that has been around for almost a decade, and people still don't know to use one. What's worse is that use of turn signals when exiting out of the roundabout is nonexistent.


I didn't mean that people here drive through roundabouts _properly_, but getting through a roundabout shouldn't be hard at all.


----------



## Justme

ChrisZwolle said:


> However, I think many American roads are too busy for roundabouts. Above 15,000 AADT, they become less useful with queues often, and multilane highways are also not very well to have roundabouts on, giant multilane roundabouts are not very effective.


They have quite a few in central Barcelona, Paris and Madrid, and those have wide avenues branching out with many roads. I think they are pretty busy as well.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, but do you think they work well? How many people know exactly how to navigate a 5/6 lane roundabout? People are just driving somewhere slowly, hoping they make it across it okay.


----------



## Justme

Year, don't know how well they work, but they look great 

My point though was regarding traffic levels being too high in the US and the references I used showed them still possible.


----------



## metasmurf

One from Sweden


----------



## Jeroen669

Majestic said:


> ^^ You can make a 360 turn actually. The intersection is called a roundabout although it is not one techically speaking. It's rather called an "intersection with a center island" whatever it may sound like.


Traffic square is a better translation, I suppose.


----------



## deranged

A few from Melbourne, Australia.
There are no magic roundabouts in Australia, but these are some in close proximity:

3 roundabouts in 150 metres - Hull Rd, Mooroolbark:





6 roundabouts in 450 metres - Lyndhurst Bvd, Lyndhurst:












A half-completed circular road with 7 roundabouts - Stadium Cct, Mulgrave:


----------



## nerdly_dood

deranged said:


> If American drivers were taught how to use them, roundabouts would function no differently from anywhere else.


Yes, but there's a major flaw in that logic - How would they be taught to navigate a roundabout when there are none? Put up a bunch of traffic cones in a parking lot in the shape of a roundabout? Sure, they could be taught how to do it in the classroom portion of their training, but that's just learning the theory of it, it's nothing like actually doing it in reality.

On another note, here is a roundabout in Spain (Madrid i think) that entirely defeat the purpose of a roundabout. (Do other countries murder their roundabouts this way, or is it only Spain?)


----------



## RawLee

I've learned to drive in an area,where there are absolutely no roundabouts. Even the theory behind it is simplier than behind an all-yield junction. If someone comes,dont enter. Thats all.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

nerdly_dood said:


>


These "roundabouts" eliminate left lane turning, which requires the most traffic(light) conflicts.


----------



## deranged

nerdly_dood said:


> Yes, but there's a major flaw in that logic - How would they be taught to navigate a roundabout when there are none? Put up a bunch of traffic cones in a parking lot in the shape of a roundabout? Sure, they could be taught how to do it in the classroom portion of their training, but that's just learning the theory of it, it's nothing like actually doing it in reality.


Imagine if that attitude had precluded the introduction of freeways decades ago, or any technology for that matter. Nothing new would ever be introduced. And roundabouts aren't exactly rocket science - yield to traffic on the roundabout & on the left.

Single-lane roundabouts are straightforward, so they could be introduced on minor streets initially, with accompanying training sessions with cones held in parking lots (for example). Multi-lane roundabouts could later be progressively introduced.


----------



## Glodenox

The theory sufficed for me to immediately understand how a roundabout works... My parents never learnt about any roundabouts when they got their drivers license (one even didn't get taught anything). A short campaign about how to drive on them was launched after they started to become widespread, and nowadays nobody has any problems with using those.

So sure: we also had such a moment, but that's something that will always happen when something new gets introduced.

Greetings,
Glodenox


----------



## mgk920

Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=46.097103,-64.770327&spn=0.015296,0.043945&t=k&z=15



Mike


----------



## LtBk

I wonder if roundabouts are common in Latin America,Africa, and Asia.


----------



## Majestic

^^ They are abundant in most of Africa and Middle East. Not that common in Latin America I believe.


----------



## Verso

mgk920 said:


> Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada:
> 
> http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=46.097103,-64.770327&spn=0.015296,0.043945&t=k&z=15
> 
> 
> 
> Mike


Why the smilie? I don't understand. It looks like an ordinary roundabout to me.


----------



## Timon91

Well, it seems to be quite large. Not outrageously large, but just large. There are many roundabouts that are bigger though.


----------



## TheCat

In the very few cases where there are roundabouts in the Toronto area, there is usually some extra signage that prevents completely clueless drivers (not a good thing in the first place) from being "shocked".

On approaching the roundabout, there is a yield sign, and the middle of the roundabout has a regular "one-way" arrow sign (the same one put on intersections here) facing each approaching road.

I think one would have to be completely stupid to not know what to do. Of course, simply putting a "roundabout ahead" sign is more elegant, but this way I think there is no confusion.

The only cases I heard about were of people driving straight "through" a roundabout :lol: But I think if one doesn't notice a solid barrier in the middle of the road, one should have the driver's license promptly revoked.


----------



## Protteus

Majestic said:


> ^^ They are abundant in most of Africa and Middle East. Not that common in Latin America I believe.


They are common in Latin America, at least in Mexico you can found them 
in each city.


----------



## LtBk

I read that Japan doesn't have roundabouts.


----------



## Tom985

Timon91 said:


> Well, it seems to be quite large. Not outrageously large, but just large. There are many roundabouts that are bigger though.


It's also the only at-grade intersection on what would otherwise be several kilometers of freeway.


----------



## EricIsHim

Some roundabout pictures from Hong Kong:


----------



## anonymousguy

CborG said:


> Step aside for the Turbo roundabout!:rock:





Where is the above turbo-roundabout located? (i.e. I'd like to find it in Google Maps or Google Earth)


----------



## Rebasepoiss

This...










...reminds me of the roundabout we had in front of our hotel in London:


----------



## DorianDr

LtBk said:


> I wonder if roundabouts are common in Latin America,Africa, and Asia.


exemple of roundabouts in Algeria :

_*large with underpass*_













*with multiple underpasses*


----------



## NCT

Roundabouts are ideal for medium to large unsaturated junctions where there's ample space, especially where there is a dominant flow. Compared to a signal controlled junction less time is wasted waiting for a green light; compared with non-signal controlled junctions traffic in non-dominant directions have a better chance to move (imagine sitting on a minor road waiting for traffic to clear on the main road in both directions).

Provided there's ample space, at a saturated junction, a signal controlled roundabout is the best option (where traffic volume does not warrant a grade-separated junction of course). All you need is two stages in each sequence of traffic lights. I drew those diagrams for a junction in Shanghai which I think is suitable for a roundabout, so apologies for the wrong language. Other than that I hope they are self-explanatary:










The segragated lanes on the very edge of the roads are cycle lanes, which are not relevant for all countries. Traffic lanes bordered by a thick continuous line are bus lanes.

Traffic-light sequence - stage one:










Stage two:










This is more efficient than flat junctions which would need 4 stages in each traffic-light sequence, straight and turning for each direction. There's the added bonus of visual friendliness for there isn't a massive patch of black tarmac at a roundabout junction.

Now some say roundabouts with through-roads defeat the purpose, like this one:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&s...7817,-0.453106&spn=0.001499,0.005472&t=k&z=18

Actually these hybrid junctions are _even better_ than conventional signal controlled roundabouts, if you consider where turning traffic can be easily *stored*.


----------



## Ayceman

nerdly_dood said:


> On another note, here is a roundabout in Spain (Madrid i think) that entirely defeat the purpose of a roundabout. (Do other countries murder their roundabouts this way, or is it only Spain?)


We have one at Piața Romană, Bucharest, Romania:


----------



## mattec

what's wrong with a simple stop light?

so much more straight foward


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That Bucharest roundabout reduces annoying left-turns. Those are capacity reducers at traffic lights...


----------



## Bobek_Azbest

Some stuff from Czech Republic:

Demonstration of widespread roundabout plague - this is in Novy Jicin:









This weird thing in Most:









And two-and-a-half roundabout-ish awesomeness in Liberec (the middle one isn't full circle, as it wouldn't make any sense at all):


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That center picture is called a "dog bone roundabout". We have a few of them too in the Netherlands.









N11/N459 Bodegraven


----------



## Verso

^^ It's not entirely the same though. The leftmost Czech roundabout is a complete circle.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I was referring to the picture above that one.


----------



## Dimethyltryptamine




----------



## dochan

Jakarta, Indonesia

Bundaran Hotel Indonesia (Hotel Indonesia Roundabout)
from flickr



























​


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> I was referring to the picture above that one.


Oops.


----------



## kphoger

I am a big fan of roundabouts. Yes, I am American. Yes, I got my driver's license in a town of 1300 people, 29 miles from the nearest stoplight. No, I didn't learn about them in driver's education. But it seems like common sense to me: 4-way stops require ALL traffic to stop, which is the antithesis of efficiency; stoplights require sudden stops, which increases the risk of serious collisions.

One thing I've become convinced of over time, however, is that roundabouts should never be constructed in proximity to stoplights. See this example in Belleville, Illionois:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=PUBLIC+SQUARE,+BELLEVILLE+IL&sll=38.513725,-89.984105&sspn=0.003089,0.006866&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Public+Square,+Belleville,+St+Clair,+Illinois+62220&ll=38.513629,-89.983681&spn=0.003194,0.004823&z=18
At least three of the four surrounding streets have stoplights, and Illinois Street is one of the busiest in town. What happens is that one or more of the stoplights turn red, traffic queues up onto the roundabout, and then NOBODY can move.


----------



## Muttie

Moroccan roundabouts, unfortunately - Morocco has followed the example of France and implemented like thousands of roundabouts lately. 

Some examples:


----------



## NCT

Regular concentric circular lanes - how NOT to design a roundabout.


----------



## cardinals1

kphoger said:


> I am a big fan of roundabouts. Yes, I am American. Yes, I got my driver's license in a town of 1300 people, 29 miles from the nearest stoplight. No, I didn't learn about them in driver's education. But it seems like common sense to me: 4-way stops require ALL traffic to stop, which is the antithesis of efficiency; stoplights require sudden stops, which increases the risk of serious collisions.


That's why we have a lot of roundabouts in Europe. They're practical and reduce traffic jams. As far as I'm concerned, we can eliminate all traffic lights and install roundabouts.

This picture is old, new road section has been built since then. Notice 5 roundabouts and 3 small ones before the bridge.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

cardinals1 said:


> As far as I'm concerned, we can eliminate all traffic lights and install roundabouts.


No, you can't.

You cannot control the traffic flow within a network of intersections with roundabouts. Another issue is that roundabouts don't work well on high-trafficked intersections, especially if traffic volumes are over 15,000 for single lane roundabouts and 20,000 - 25,000 on multilane roundabouts.


----------



## cardinals1

Traffic lights don't work in that case either. This:










You don't need traffic lights at all.


----------



## NCT

In most built up places there's no space to stick a junction like this or a roundabout. You'll have to make do with a conventional crossroad.


----------



## cardinals1

You can always make an underpass.


----------



## Ayceman

You still need lights for left/right turns and the cross traffic.


----------



## peezet

A59 exit near Rosmalen the Netherlands

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=51.70890307969451~5.381500423219677&lvl=18&sty=a


----------



## EricIsHim

peezet said:


> A59 exit near Rosmalen the Netherlands
> 
> http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=51.70890307969451~5.381500423219677&lvl=18&sty=a


is that reddish outer ring a bike path?


----------



## niterider

does anyone know why Dutch roundabouts usually have just one lane? 
It seems to be a preference, even with roundabouts linking multi-lane roads, to sometimes have only one lane.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

EricIsHim said:


> is that reddish outer ring a bike path?


Yes it is. Most Dutch bike paths are painted in red, although there are also bike paths that are just the color of asphalt or concrete. 



niterider said:


> does anyone know why Dutch roundabouts usually have just one lane?
> It seems to be a preference, even with roundabouts linking multi-lane roads, to sometimes have only one lane.


I think it's mostly a safety thing. The Dutch policy makers tend to have some kind of traffic safety phobia beyond reasonable levels, so multilane roundabouts are rare. However, recently more and more turbo roundabouts are constructed. They have two lanes, but are physically separated from each other by a small and low barrier (you can drive across it in case of an emergency, but I wouldn't recommend it). 

Another annoying issue is that formerly unregulated intersections are now being reconstructed into roundabouts. This is especially annoying on provincial roads with a speed limit of 80 km/h, on some roads you can't drive more than 2 km without having to slow down for another roundabout. And Dutch provincial roads tend to be quite busy, especially in the central and western parts of the Netherlands, 1x2 roads with an AADT up to 20,000 are not uncommon.


----------



## niterider

ChrisZwolle said:


> Another annoying issue is that formerly unregulated intersections are now being reconstructed into roundabouts. This is especially annoying on provincial roads with a speed limit of 80 km/h, on some roads you can't drive more than 2 km without having to slow down for another roundabout. And Dutch provincial roads tend to be quite busy, especially in the central and western parts of the Netherlands, 1x2 roads with an AADT up to 20,000 are not uncommon.


Sounds like South-East England then! hno:


----------



## kphoger

> As far as I'm concerned, we can eliminate all traffic lights and install roundabouts.


I disagree as well. As much as I dislike stoplights, they serve well in many situations. Of course, a grade-separated interchange would be best everywhere, but that would be crazy at most major intersections due to so many factors: money, aesthetics, space constraints, business access, you name it. Some of those factors are true for roundabouts as well: space constraints and business access. And, as has been mentioned, the timing of a system of stoplights can be strategically timed.

However. Having said all that, I do believe they could see far greater use than what there currently is in the U.S. I firmly believe that all four-way stops should be eliminated, replacing each with either a two-way stop or roundabout. As well, I'd say all five-way stoplights should be eliminated and each either replaced with a multi-lane roundabout or reconfigured to include a four-way stoplight and a three-leg roundabout. Most low-volume diamond interchanges and their variants could have roundabouts at their points, thereby eliminating the future need to install stoplights.

So, yeah, the whirpool of life maybe. But I love whirlpools. I wish I had one in my back yard. (a whirlpool, not a roundabout)


----------



## Xpressway

nerdly_dood said:


> On another note, here is a roundabout in Spain (Madrid i think) that entirely defeat the purpose of a roundabout. (Do other countries murder their roundabouts this way, or is it only Spain?)


In Santiago, Chile, the roundabout Perez Zujovich is killed at rush hour, there's so much traffic that the roundabout turned into a traffic chaos and traffic lights that are turned on only at rush hour were placed at the entrance of some streets/avenues that join the roundabout, so we have a roundabout with traffic lights. :lol:

The roundabout will be demolished soon and a complex interchange will be built.

Pic of the Perez Zujovich roundabout, red circles are locations of the traffic lights


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Crazy unmarked roundabout in Paris:


----------



## ea1969

^^
You don't have to look too much around Paris in order to find a crazy roundabout. You just need to look at the Arc de Triomphe (or Place Charles de Gaulle to be more precise)!


----------



## piotr71

ea1969 said:


> ^^
> You don't have to look too much around Paris in order to find a crazy roundabout. You just need to look at the Arc de Triomphe (or Place Charles de Gaulle to be more precise)!


Yes, but  we all know this place, although I've never seen or heard about the roundabout posted by Chris.


----------



## Minato ku

^^ Paris is full of those crazy roundabouts.
Some other exemples

Porte Maillot









Porte de la Villlette









Place de la Bastille


----------



## Rebasepoiss

^^ At least it's impossible to fail your driver's licence exam by choosing the wrong lane for exiting the roundabout :lol:

Here's a crazy roundabout from Tallinn. The scheme is from a roundabout-book for those trying to get their license: http://www.liikluskoolitus.ee/internetikool/doc/haabersti_ring_0pZ3q6IKGC.pdf


----------



## NCT

I'm quite struck about the crazy roundabouts in Paris too. They are huge (in terms of the amount of tarmac) with respect to road widths, but there's no attempt to instill any sort of lane discipline at all. IMO Priorite a droit (sorry for the lack of accents) doesn't make sense either as this easily creates a gridlock.

The roundabout from Tallinn isn't at all crazy to be honest - it's quite easy to choose your lane and the roundabout is well designed.


----------



## riiga

Here's an exemple from Sweden, on the topic of overusing roundabouts:


Just a few years ago, five of those intersections weren't roundabouts, and three didn't exist at all. Nevertheless, I quite like roundabouts.


----------



## Di-brazil

in brazil :




























Small:


----------



## Fargo Wolf

We have a few here in Kamloops. The one up at Thompson Rivers University was the first to be built. It has a shape kinda resembling a flat tyre...:lol::rofl: All are single lane and drivers entering the roundabout MUST give way to drivers already in it.


----------



## Penn's Woods

stanford said:


> Here in Boston.. we call them rotaries. Are they called roundabouts everywhere else?
> 
> In any case.. I like them a lot although we 'Masshole' drivers sometimes forget rotary etiquette (for example.. entering the rotary without looking at 40 mph? an all too common sight)


I grew up in New Jersey and have always called them "traffic circles." If they have a proper name it's usually something like "Somerville Circle." I think of "rotary" as the Massachusetts term.

That said, I don't like them, OR four-way stops. In both cases, too many people don't know what to do. New Jersey, for several years, has been gradually eliminating them, or modifying the busiest ones with overpasses and the like.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Jonesy55 said:


> Lots of people are saying that drivers in the US don't know how to use them, don't you learn that in your driving test?


In much of the country, they're rare, if not non-existent. Even if every state tests on them (and driver testing and licensing is handled by the states), you might pass the test and then never come across one for years....


----------



## Penn's Woods

Dupont Circle in Washington:

<iframe width="425" height="350" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=38.909753,-77.043664&spn=0.004942,0.00825&t=h&z=17&output=embed"></iframe><br /><small><a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=38.909753,-77.043664&spn=0.004942,0.00825&t=h&z=17&source=embed" style="color:#0000FF;text-align:left">View Larger Map</a></small>

Unless you're following Connecticut Avenue - in which case there are pedestrian crossings that let you go straight through the circle - it can take ten minutes to get around it on foot. I'm not exaggerating. The traffic lights seem to be timed so that you stop *twice* at each intersection (once for traffic leaving the circle for that street and then again for traffic entering from that street, with a little island in between...the two lights at each intersection are not coordinated with each other). Love the neighborhood, will go out of my way to avoid the circle....

Edited to add, okay, so how do we get a Google Maps image into a post?
Here's a link to what I was talking about. Assuming it works. http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=38.909753,-77.043664&spn=0.004942,0.00825&t=h&z=17


----------



## iMiros

Lome roundabout










Ndjamena roundabout










I think the biggest one in Africa, Ouagadougou roundabout










Ouagadougou small roundabouts










my favourite one...Garoua bypass roundabout


----------



## polkos

^^^ Here in Poland we have totally opposite situation. The car on the left must yield to the car on the right when exiting the roundabout.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

scotdaliney said:


> why on earth would you design it so you can go all the way round in either lane. You have just made one of the safest intersections one of the most dangerous. hno:


I have NO idea why, or HOW the Alberta Government came up with that nonsense for navigating a multi-lane traffic circle.


----------



## link_road_17/7

Gareth said:


> We don't have Zebras on junctions in the UK. Unless there's a red light, pedestrians have no power, whatsoever.


You do however, owe other road users (such as pedestrians) a duty of care.

ITYF the Highway Code states:



> 198
> Give way to anyone still crossing after the signal for vehicles has changed to green. This advice applies to all crossings.


----------



## Gareth

piotr71 said:


> If we can consider this place as a junction and zebra crossing as a part of it, I would say: yes, you have.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regardless of traffic rules, I have never seen a driver who wouldn't stop before zebra seeing a pedestrian waiting by the crossing, in particular before that one with yellow bulbs. I mean driver in Britain, of course. However it's more matter of politeness than any rule.


Zebra crossings here are much less common and are officially a midblock crossing and not to be used at junctions. In the rest of Europe though, for example, they are standard to all junctions. As link_road_17/7 says, you are, in theory, supposed to look out for pedestrians, particularly when turning, but in practice, the pedestrian has to give way to the vehicle or die.


----------



## RKC

this one's interesting, sorry it's a bit huge








http://www.delmagyar.hu/forum-kepek/215/B2145306.jpg


----------



## ChrisZwolle

How about the ultra-turbo roundabout? It has up to six lanes divided over 3 roadways.


----------



## Morjo

RKC said:


> yes, allthough i must say we are still "learning" to do that, and if you look at pedestrians they still are very carefull before crossing because the old practice was not to yield to pedestrians (on the other hand, some make a protest of this and step in front of vehicles regardless of the situation). Also it is normal to drive about 70 km/h on a 50 km/h road which makes it hard to notice and stop for people crossing, plus it's dangerous because there's a chance of getting rammed by the car behind you. Another factor is older zebras not very visible, so there are a number of things having an effect.


It was interesting when I was in Europe, in countries like the UK, Netherlands and Germany motorists always gave way at zebra crossings. But when I was in Italy and France, nobody gave way, so I had to risk my life and walk out onto the road to stop traffic so I could cross. I think Hungary was a bit of a gamble too. I came to the conclusion that maybe in some countries zebra crossings are just a guide as to where you can cross the road, and vehicles don't have to give way.

In Australia vehicles have to stop at zebra crossings, every vehicle does unless they make a mistake. Though there are some zebra crossings in ridiculous locations.


----------



## RKC

ChrisZwolle said:


> How about the ultra-turbo roundabout? It has up to six lanes divided over 3 roadways.


whoa! thats hot!


----------



## RKC

Morjo said:


> It was interesting when I was in Europe, in countries like the UK, Netherlands and Germany motorists always gave way at zebra crossings. But when I was in Italy and France, nobody gave way, so I had to risk my life and walk out onto the road to stop traffic so I could cross. I think Hungary was a bit of a gamble too. I came to the conclusion that maybe in some countries zebra crossings are just a guide as to where you can cross the road, and vehicles don't have to give way.
> 
> In Australia vehicles have to stop at zebra crossings, every vehicle does unless they make a mistake. Though there are some zebra crossings in ridiculous locations.


well the rule is you should yield. The dangerous situation occurs when there's a high traffic road, where cars just follow each other at say 80-90 km/h and theres a zebra crossing without trafficlights. If you stop for a pedestrian suddenly, you might find yourself getting hit from behind (and maybe even run over the person, beacause of this).
Its probably different in different countries, e.g in England most pedestrian crossings aren't zebras, they are just marked with a sort of dotted line on the sides, and cars dont have to yield (and they won't either), whereas at proper zebras (with the flashing yellow lights, much less frequent) you can just step on the road they will stop.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

^^ In Estonia, cars have to yield to pedestrians at pedestrian crossings. The maximum speed is very rarely, if ever, above 50km/h at unregulated zebra crossings. 10 years ago, few cars gave way at pedestrian crossings but now most of them do.

BTW, there is also a rule that if there's a pedestrian crossing within 100 metres, one must cross the road via the zebra crossing.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Zebra crossings on roads with a higher speed limit than 50 are dangerous. Not to mention they don't belong on 4-lane divided highways outside city limits as you see in some countries.


----------



## RKC

here's Hungary's probably most well known roundabout, which actually wasn't a roundabout up untill a couple of years back as the road from the tunel to the bridge had priority


----------



## RKC

wow posts getting mixed up in time again


----------



## Morjo

RKC said:


> well the rule is you should yield. The dangerous situation occurs when there's a high traffic road, where cars just follow each other at say 80-90 km/h and theres a zebra crossing without trafficlights. If you stop for a pedestrian suddenly, you might find yourself getting hit from behind (and maybe even run over the person, beacause of this).
> Its probably different in different countries, e.g in England most pedestrian crossings aren't zebras, they are just marked with a sort of dotted line on the sides, and cars dont have to yield (and they won't either), whereas at proper zebras (with the flashing yellow lights, much less frequent) you can just step on the road they will stop.


We only have zebra crossings in Australia for area's 50k's and under, then there are pedestrian crossing traffic lights or over/underpasses for 60k's and over.


----------



## RKC

yes in Budapest those are extreme cases too, not usual but they allways get mentioned in news how rude drivers are, and of course names like "death-crossing" are given. But noone thinks of the dangers of stopping like i've mentioned before.
There's one particular spot, on a very busy road, where you drive out to M1-M7(!!!), just before two 2 laned roads join together and turn into a separated mway. here it is: 
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=47.47457,19.023063&spn=0.000832,0.002747&t=h&z=19

(Budaörsi and Nagyszőlős join here and continue to be M1-M7 (to the south on the picture)


----------



## simcard

i dont mind round abouts, but they are awful when traffic lights are used in conjuntion. The one i hate the most is Hanger lane round about in London, it is simply awful. combined with bad london drivers it is just disgusting


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ChrisZwolle said:


> How about the ultra-turbo roundabout? It has up to six lanes divided over 3 roadways.
> 
> http://i43.tinypic.com/20z8l5h.jpg





RKC said:


> whoa! thats hot!


This area just happened to get an update in Google Earth imagery.










location: N470/N472 in Pijnacker (east of Delft).


----------



## peezet

The roundabout has traffic lights. Is it more effective than a normal crossing ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't know. As far as I know, these kind of super turbo roundabouts are very rare in the Netherlands, there may be only a handful of them. It could be a pilot to test it's efficiency. 

This type of roundabouts is so space-consuming that you only see them in completely new situations, for example Pijnacker grew from a small village to a large suburb with a lot of new development. Then you have the space to experiment with roundabouts like these. 

Another downside is that the signage definitely requires overhead portals, but the 600m announcement sign is not, so they become very complicated to comprehend for drivers.


----------



## NCT

peezet said:


> The roundabout has traffic lights. Is it more effective than a normal crossing ?


Yes, as it 'internalises' left turns so allows for a higher throughput.


----------



## Cicerón

Roundabout in Valladolid, Spain. Spot the real sign :crazy:








Source


----------



## bogdymol

Cicerón said:


> Roundabout in Valladolid, Spain. Spot the real sign :crazy:
> Source


Found it :banana:


----------



## RKC

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/M7_-_freeway_-_bridge.jpg


----------



## bogdymol

^^ I like this type of motorway exit. I think it is a simple and fast way to get in/out of the motorway. 

A similar roundabout in Slovakia, on D1, near Liptovsky Mikulas:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=49.074534,19.598794&spn=0.003887,0.009645&t=h&z=17

It looks more like *0* than *O*.


----------



## Cicerón

A funny roundabout in El Burgo de Osma, Spain:


----------



## engenx4

Brazil:


----------



## bogdymol

Cicerón said:


> A funny roundabout in El Burgo de Osma, Spain:


You have to know which way to spin if you get there by helicopter :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another turbo in the Netherlands. Rotterdam skyline in the distance.


----------



## CNGL

^^ It isn't the same turbo-roundabout that the one in Pijnacker? (Which is also near Rotterdam)



bogdymol said:


> ^^ I like this type of motorway exit. I think it is a simple and fast way to get in/out of the motorway.
> 
> A similar roundabout in Slovakia, on D1, near Liptovsky Mikulas:
> 
> http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=49.074534,19.598794&spn=0.003887,0.009645&t=h&z=17
> 
> It looks more like *0* than *O*.


Here's another zero-shaped roundabout in Huesca:
http://maps.google.es/maps?ie=UTF8...
http://maps.google.es/maps?ie=UTF8... (Street view)

But this potato-shaped roundabout in Girona is really :crazy: if you want to turn around:
http://maps.google.es/maps?ie=UTF8...
http://maps.google.es/maps?ie=UTF8... (Street view)


----------



## Verso

We've got the first roundabout with traffic lights before and in it in Slovenia. It's actually reconstructed Tomačevo roundabout in Ljubljana between the H3 and G104 expressways, which was added another 4-lane entry/exit road for a new stadium. Here's a simulation:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interesting design. It's basically a traffic light controlled, multi-lane turbo roundabout.


----------



## Fron

New roundabout in Szeged(Hungary), spiced with tramways...



















This video shows how the traffic lights, cateyes are being programmed:


----------



## bogdymol

^^ I like that new roundabout in Szeged. I drove through it for the first time on Wednesday and I saw it has LED lights that are on even during day light, not only in the evening. You can also see that roundabout here (at 9:05). If you want I can upload that part of the video at normal speed.


----------



## urbanlover

The in road LED's look really nice, but if a road is busy enough need traffic lights IMO you're better off going with a tradtional four way intersection.


----------



## tony64

bogdymol said:


> You can also see that roundabout here (at 9:05). If you want I can upload that part of the video at normal speed.


Really quick view of the roundabout!  But nice trip, thank you for the video!

Another video about the roundabout in the night:


----------



## EricIsHim

Fron said:


> New roundabout in Szeged(Hungary), spiced with tramways...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This video shows how the traffic lights, cateyes are being programmed:


Why does this need to be circular when the signal phasing work exactly like a 4-phase split for each approach with protected turning, and the long queues.
This could have been done just like a traditional "+" intersection, with shorter travel distance.

Unless there is some other reason, may be the tram, otherwise, I don't see the point.

One more thing, what was that white car doing in the tramway in the picture?
Some one was confused and drove into where s/he shouldn't be in. lol


----------



## brewerfan386

*Time for some American ones*








Washington County, WI (http://www.ourston.com/index.php?id=122) 









(http://www.gtcmpo.org/Resources/Topics/Roundabouts/)









(http://www.tristate-engineering.com/transportation3.html)


----------



## brewerfan386

*More American!*








Lynden, WA (courtesy of "WSDOT". link)









Anacortes, WA (courtesy of "WSDOT". link)









Fort Collins, CO (http://www.co.larimer.co.us/engineering/projects/stat265.htm)









De Pere, WI (http://www.public.applications.co.brown.wi.us/Plan/PlanningFolder/Webpages/roundabouts.html)









Edina, MN (link)


----------



## scotdaliney

brewerfan386 said:


> *Time for some American ones*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Washington County, WI (http://www.ourston.com/index.php?id=122)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (http://www.gtcmpo.org/Resources/Topics/Roundabouts/)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (http://www.tristate-engineering.com/transportation3.html)


 It looks like America uses the same roundabout design as Australia
http://s219.photobucket.com/albums/...view&current=marmion.jpg&evt=user_media_share

Also those turbo roundabouts seem to work against two of the main advantages of roundabouts. Deflection, a collision between a circulating vehicle and an entering one would be a ninety degree angle hit instead of the softer deflected hit in a standard roundabout. Secondly the gap acceptance would need to be as big as a normal road because of the size of the area to cross.


----------



## nerdly_dood

Turbo roundabouts are nice, but one thing you can't do with them that you can do with a normal roundabout is drive around in endless circles. Hell, it's even conceivable that someone could get their car going around a roundabout in a circle, put a small weight on the gas, then jump out and let the car just keep going and going on its own, and run off and let the police deal with it. (Or you could stick around with a camera, and risk a reckless driving at the very least)

(I saw an episode of COPS from the 1980s with a car in a parking lot driving around around in circles without anyone inside - a cop had to chase it around and jump inside to get it stopped)


----------



## lambersart2005

I'm always overwhelmed when I'm in Spain... insane roundabouts, the bigger the better - especially in newly built quarters. Who pays for all that? The city? The adjacent businesses/inhabitants? 

Impressing spanish madness in Benidorm... :cheers: I love the first one!


Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## bogdymol

Is this a roundabout or not? Pretty weird...


----------



## ed110220

They're pretty uncommon in South Africa. Not unheard of but fairly rare.

Perhaps that is why they have put this helpful reminder with red lights on the approach to this one on Frans Conradie Drive/McIntyre Rd in Cape Town:


----------



## engenx4

Signalization


----------



## Verso

bogdymol said:


> Is this a roundabout or not? Pretty weird...


That looks like a ringroad. It can't be a roundabout when traffic flows in both directions.


----------



## g.spinoza

In Bologna the biggest roundabout (diameter 100m) is probably this one:

http://maps.google.it/?ie=UTF8&hq=&...5004,11.305109&spn=0.002847,0.008256&t=k&z=18

The 6 lane road beneath it is no motorway, it is just an urban fast road, called "Asse Attrezzato".


----------



## bogdymol

g.spinoza said:


> In Bologna the biggest *round*about (diameter 100m) is probably this one:
> 
> http://maps.google.it/?ie=UTF8&hq=&...5004,11.305109&spn=0.002847,0.008256&t=k&z=18
> 
> The 6 lane road beneath it is no motorway, it is just an urban fast road, called "Asse Attrezzato".


It's not very *ROUND* :lol:


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ More like octagon-about 


Actually very near my home there's another roundabout, much smaller than the previous one:









I hate this particular roundabout for two main reasons: one is that being under a 10 lane road it's very dark (there are no artificial lights) so it's difficult to see what's going on. Another reason is that it's often crowded, since the east-west road is a very busy one, while the north-south road serves as exit-entrance to the tangenziale above it.


----------



## piotr71

@*g.spinoza*

Have the merging lanes been shortened for the time of construction on that bridge or it's their regular length?


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ That overpass is made by a 3+3 lane regular motorway (in the center) and a 2+2 lane beltway (outer lanes). More or less all the beltway's merging lanes are long like those in the pic... very short indeed! What's worst, sometimes exits are so close one another that an acceleration lane becomes the deceleration lane for the next exit!!
Look at the street view images, taken in the very same spot, roughly here:









The first pic is taken looking forward, that is looking toward the lower right angle of the previous image:









you can see, right after the truck, the exit 11bis.
Now if we look backwards:










entrance 11! You can clearly see that the lane we are in is an acceleration lane and a deceleration lane AT THE SAME TIME!
I use this exits/entrances very often, since they're near my home, and I find them very dangerous... a couple of years ago I was almost crashing, while entering the beltway thru entrance 11, with another car which was coming from behind, entering the deceleration lane to the exit 11bis...hno:


----------



## piotr71

Thanks for the comprehensive answer. 

Anyway, whole this junction seems to be quite odd not only roundabout under it.


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ They wanted to do different entrances/exits for people going to /coming from the city center (on the left) or the opposite direction.

So entrance 11 if you come from outside the city and exit 11 if you want to go towards the city... the other way round for exit/entrance 11bis.

It's like that only since 3 or 4 years... 11bis didn't exist, and entrance/exit 11 was accessible from/to any direction.


----------



## CNGL

Huesca for world capital of roundabouts! Well, this is not like Milton Keynes in UK, but if you search Huesca in Google Maps and take a round, you will see tons of them. Even there are roundabouts that aren't marked! 2 on the N-330a, one on the N-240 exit, two more linked by a bridge (One of the ends is shown U/C in Street View).
We have 33 roundabouts, for 53033 inhabitants (as of 2009), so it makes 1607,06 people per roundabout.


----------



## Cicerón

^^ The roundabout capital of Spain should be Jaén:



















uke:

What an awful way to spend public money!


----------



## g.spinoza

In Latina, Italy they did worse. They put an airplane (a real one) in the middle of a roundabout:









from sabaudiain.it

it is called Rotonda dell'Aviatore -> Airplane pilot roundabout


----------



## yoladeuche

In Getafe, Spain, there are two or three roundabouts with aircrafts, but as EADS has a factory there it makes sense... well, almost. 

Plaza de Pinto

Bercial


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ Ahaha, so it seems to be a fairly common thing


----------



## koloite

This roundabout gave my GPS a nice challenge. Normally, the spoken instructions are enough to know what to do when approaching a roundabout ('take the third exit on the roundabout'), but this time I had to look at the map for a little while to get what it meant with 'take the second exit and then turn right'.


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ It should just have said "take the third exit"


----------



## Spookvlieger

yoladeuche said:


> In Getafe, Spain, there are two or three roundabouts with aircrafts, but as EADS has a factory there it makes sense... well, almost.


Here in BElgium there are also several roundabouts with old jet fighters on. One is in my hometown: here you go.










Ones part of the National Belgian acrobats 'Red Devils' (Like the US airforce Thunderburds or the UK Red Arrows)


----------



## RKC

dizee said:


> Here is a beautiful pic of the Sandyford exit (14) on the M50 in the December snow.
> 
> M50 Sandyford Interchange. Photo, ARMN Paddy Reilly, 105 Sqn by Irish Air Corps, on Flickr
> 
> (credit to "Irish and Proud" on boards.ie for finding this)


great picture! beautiful shape!


----------



## Verso

RKC said:


> thats exactly what i was about to say. haven't been to the south either


I was in Naples in 1994. Absolute and complete chaos.  Even Trieste used to be chaotic for me, but it's better now.


----------



## dizee

g.spinoza said:


> Unfortunately you're right. I'm Italian and I'm used to criticize my country a lot... but when a foreigner does... I don't know, I fend off
> 
> I have to say that in small towns and in the countryside, even in the South, driving is very relaxed. Palermo, Naples and Rome, above all cities, are a real mess though. But even Florence can be real messy.


Even so, it was an unfair comment, apologies.


----------



## RKC

Verso said:


> I was in Naples in 1994. Absolute and complete chaos.  Even Trieste used to be chaotic for me, but it's better now.




naah Trieste is chilled 

I got as far south as Tuscany it wasn't much different to the north and Italy is where i've driven most abroad, and Romania now i think of it, but thats a different story


----------



## Verso

^^ I don't know, Florence was already pretty crazy (at least it was ten years ago).


----------



## RKC

A rather nice little roundabout in Pécs, Hungary








http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/28694894.jpg









http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/38607912.jpg









http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/41187553.jpg


----------



## Verso

^^ Beautiful architecture.


----------



## Alseimik

So i just read somewhere in this thread in a comment on one of the uploaded pictures, that the drivers must had forgot the rule "full stop" i think its called; wait to enter until its free, but i know that in France, at least a long time ago, the drivers inside the roundabout must stop for the incoming drivers, is there anywhere its still like this ?


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Alseimik said:


> So i just read somewhere in this thread in a comment on one of the uploaded pictures, that the drivers must had forgot the rule "full stop" i think its called; wait to enter until its free, but i know that in France, at least a long time ago, the drivers inside the roundabout must stop for the incoming drivers, is there anywhere its still like this ?


I know you have to give way to traffic already in the roundabout. That's pretty much universal, but traffic already IN the roundabout having to give way to traffic entering... I dunno. That makes no sense to me.


----------



## Verso

^^ Imagine dense traffic in the huge roundabout around the _Arc de Triomphe_ in Paris giving way to a car entering the roundabout from a side street. That's what actually used to happen there (or still does, I'm not sure).


----------



## Rebasepoiss

^^ That's also the case in Estonia. Even at roundabouts you have to yield to traffic coming from the right but since 100% of roundabouts have yield signs for traffic entering the roundabout, _de facto_ traffic on the roundabout always has priority.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

Verso said:


> ^^ Imagine dense traffic in the huge roundabout around the _Arc de Triomphe_ in Paris giving way to a car entering the roundabout from a side street. That's what actually used to happen there (or still does, I'm not sure).


The Arc de Triomphe is an enigma in itself, as well as being the only place in Europe that you can drive with no insurance whatsoever (Insurance is automatically void within that roundabout). I think what happens there is, is that some drivers give way to traffic already in it, while others give way to traffic entering. The rest of the issues, is due simply to the sheer volume of traffic trying to safely maneuver as it has no marked lanes.


----------



## g.spinoza

Fargo Wolf said:


> The Arc de Triomphe is an enigma in itself, as well as being the only place in Europe that you can drive with no insurance whatsoever (Insurance is automatically void within that roundabout).


Is this for real or it's just a joke?


----------



## Fargo Wolf

g.spinoza said:


> Is this for real or it's just a joke?


To which? Being an enigma, or the insurance bit?


----------



## g.spinoza

Fargo Wolf said:


> To which? Being an enigma, or the insurance bit?


The insurance, of course


----------



## Fargo Wolf

From what I understand, it has to do with risk. Given the number of collisions that occur there each year, The deductible would have been astronomical. As a result, most, if not all insurance companies won't cover you if you have a fender bender there, regardless of how minor.


----------



## bogdymol

^^ It sounds like the insurance companies are robbing poor people that have accidents in the roundabout. IMO it's also the Paris Administration foult for not giving a clear set of rules within that roundabout (either those who enter have to give way, either the other way - but say which one!).


----------



## Fargo Wolf

No only that, there's no marked lanes to speak of. That's on top of how it's next to impossible to establish a decent method of controlling traffic there without making major changes to traffic flow.


----------



## Verso

Many big roundabouts in Paris have lines drawn inside to stop, if a vehicle is coming from right. Example: http://maps.google.si/?ie=UTF8&ll=48.853191,2.369061&spn=0.001276,0.002411&t=k&z=19.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

As far as I know people are obliged to have a car insurance, so I don't think insurance voids if you drive some roundabout.


----------



## Verso

> There is an urban myth that motor insurance companies will not cover driving around the Étoile, which is not strictly true. Insurance companies generally cover motor accidents only on the Étoile under a knock-for-knock agreement[1], whereby each insurance company will pay for losses by its own policyholder, provided that the other party's insurance company agrees to do the same for the other policyholder.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Place_Charles_de_Gaulle#Motor_Insurance_Myth


----------



## mgk920

^^
Some USA states require all auto insurance be issued on that basis, called 'no fault' insurance, where your company covers you regardless of fault. Yes, it rewards bad drivers in old wrecky cars while punishing good ones in nice cars.

Mike


----------



## Spookvlieger

*How that looks on ground level:*


----------



## RKC

I don't see what's so strange about this. Incoming traffic has right of way, because a 10 lane roundabout would never work, all those big avenues would be blocked up and cars could never ever enter the roundabout.
As for the chaotic goings on inside the roundabout: its not really dangerous as everybody is going at approx the same speed: very slow, so its just like on those videos from India and other countries with no traffic rules, where everybody knows there's no rules so they all drive at the same low speed and expect cars from every direction at all times. A lot like a person moving in a crowd of people: you don't bump into everybody when you're in the mall, do you? 
Its much more dangerous when you expect people to follow rules and someone doesn't. E.g.: you fly through the green light with 80 km/h *because* you expect crossing traffic to stop at their red light. If someone doesn't, you're fucked.
but since they all know this is a special place with no rules (well, not normal rules anyway) they don't crash.


----------



## g.spinoza

RKC said:


> As for the chaotic goings on inside the roundabout: its not really dangerous as everybody is going at approx the same speed: very slow, so its just like on those videos from India and other countries with no traffic rules, where everybody knows there's no rules so they all drive at the same low speed and expect cars from every direction at all times. A lot like a person moving in a crowd of people: you don't bump into everybody when you're in the mall, do you?


Apparently, if insurance companies had to establish rules for that particular road, it's not like you say...


----------



## RKC

well, majority of people don't crash, do they? those rules are for people who would crash on a straight road with no traffic, and because insurance companies do anything they can not to pay.
i was talking about the general phenomenon of this big roundabout


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ But you have to admit that those videos look really absurd... there has to be a better way to organize that spot.


----------



## RKC

they look absurd, sure. but that's because its a ten lane roundabout, it wasn't built for todays traffic. so they let cars into the roundabout because otherwise the avenues would be blocked. you can get inside then you have to work your way through. other option would be traffic lights (which are basicly what they do with multi-lane roundabouts elsewhere), but obviously paris has traffic planning experts who have thought of that option but decided not to use it. they must have a concluded that would cause more jams. maybe they had to choose between having chaos inside the circle as opposed to having jams everywhere else. 

anyway that's why i referred to countries like India, or people walking in a crowd i think it works a bit like that.


----------



## Verso

g.spinoza said:


> ^^ But you have to admit that those videos look really absurd... there has to be a better way to organize that spot.


I think it's rather impossible. Such a wide roundabout simply can't work as an ordinary roundabout. Traffic lights would probably back up traffic too much.


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ Something like the English magic roundabout?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

g.spinoza said:


> ^^ But you have to admit that those videos look really absurd... there has to be a better way to organize that spot.


:cheers:










:lol:


----------



## bogdymol

^^ Imagine Arc de Triomphe in the middle :lol:


----------



## g.spinoza

I can imagine the Tour Eiffel in the middle of it... the interchange-monstre would be the nicest thing


----------



## Verso

g.spinoza said:


> ^^ Something like the English magic roundabout?


There's way too much traffic for that insanity. And again you don't have right of way in the middle roundabout.


----------



## Triple C

g.spinoza said:


> I can imagine the Tour Eiffel in the middle of it... the interchange-monstre would be the nicest thing


Already visioned something for that: http://www.architectenweb.nl/aweb/projects/project.asp?PID=1199 http://skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=7559


----------



## mgk920

There already is a bypass tunnel under the Arc de Triomphe for through traffic in one direction. And besides, the Parisians are accustomed to it, so there really isn't a problem there.

Mike


----------



## seem

We will get a lot of them in Bratislava - Devínska Nová Ves. :nuts:


----------



## ed110220

This thread got me thinking about why it is that some countries use roundabouts all over the place and others only rarely.

In the UK they are all over the place, on everything from residential streets to motorway interchanges. 

Apart from reasons of space, is this purely a cultural thing? Obviously roundabouts have their advantages and disadvantages, is it simply a case that the British and other roundabout-lovers give more weight to advantages of the roundabout and less weight to the disadvantages compared with non-roundabout loving countries?

I came across this document from the South African National Road Authority (NRA) outlining its reasons for rejecting roundabouts (it also deals with what it considers appropriate for different ADT conditions, basically unsignalised intersection > signalised intersection > grade separation).

http://www.nra.co.za/content/XXX0014.pdf

1.6 In certain public meetings associated with this project, the suggestion has been made that instead of an expensive grade separated interchange should not a roundabout intersection arrangement be considered at existing “problematic” at grade intersections. Although roundabouts are considered an appropriate and effective traffic control measure for many urban intersection conditions, they are not considered an appropriate intersection treatment on the national route network for the following reasons:

• It is NRA policy to provide, where appropriate and cost effective, a free flow
(uninterrupted flow) situation along the national road network. For national
roads with low traffic volumes, this is achieved via at-grade unsignalised
intersection and for high volume traffic sections this is achieved by grade
separate solutions. A roundabout by definition is not a free flow traffic
arrangement, since approaching traffic must yield to / merge with traffic
already on the roundabout.

• A roundabout has a similar traffic capacity to a signalized intersection and
therefore, as traffic volumes increase, so will vehicle delays eventually
requiring a grade separate interchange type solution

• Roundabouts require fairly flat areas and good approach visibility to ensure
satisfactory road operations and safety characteristics. The rugged
topography on many sections of the national road, particularly between Sir
Lowry’s Pass and Houwhoek make the roundabout an expensive interim
solution with built-in capacity constraints.

• The speed reduction effect of national road traffic passing around the
roundabout, particularly in peak periods when queues of vehicles will form
on the approaches to the roundabout, is considered an undesirable safety
hazard.​
Thus, in summary the NRA have taken the view that where traffic volumes
warrant it, the preferred intersection treatment is a grade separated interchange in terms of traffic operations and road safety criteria.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

ed110220 said:


> http://www.nra.co.za/content/XXX0014.pdf


Link leads to someone's E-Mail response for a ratepayer's association.


----------



## ed110220

Fargo Wolf said:


> Link leads to someone's E-Mail response for a ratepayer's association.


If you scroll down quite a few pages the part I was referring to can be found, it's entitled:

APPENDIX J
National Road Network:
Planning and Policy Consideration

I'm not sure why it has been buried away like this, but these things to do with planning etc in SA are difficult to find online.


----------



## rakcancer

ChrisZwolle said:


> :cheers:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lol:


wow. I love that they built totally separate lane for HOV traffic


----------



## Botev1912

There are a lot of roundabouts in Washington, DC but they are different. They are controlled by traffic lights which is weird but better for pedestrians


----------



## Kozhedub

An underdeveloped roundabout in a depressive post-commie city


----------



## Fargo Wolf

ed110220 said:


> If you scroll down quite a few pages the part I was referring to can be found, it's entitled:


The fact that EVERY page, is "page 1 of 1" threw me.


----------



## DanielFigFoz

Botev1912 said:


> There are a lot of roundabouts in Washington, DC but they are different. They are controlled by traffic lights which is weird but better for pedestrians


There are hundreds of those in the UK


----------



## ttownfeen

What you do when you have a new roundabout but don't want to pay for custom roundabout signage:


----------



## Corvinus

Typical destination signage for rural roundabouts in Hungary
(this one is near the lake Balaton)


----------



## Ingenioren




----------



## ChrisZwolle

How about living inside a roundabout?


----------



## bogdymol

^^ Actually it dosen't look that bad...


----------



## Spookvlieger

^^Only in USA :lol:


----------



## g.spinoza

Those guys have also swimming pools.. I'd like to live there!


----------



## Spookvlieger

^^It' very normal in USA to have swimming pool in backyard.


----------



## Verso

You can also park in the roundabout.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think the roundabout is more artistic than that it has any significant function. Sherman Oaks Boulevard is somewhat important between two interchanges on the 405 freeway, but nearby Sepulveda Boulevard handles the brunt of the local traffic. The side street towards the freeway is a dead-end, and the other side street ends within 150 meters on another residential street.


----------



## Frank IBC

Botev1912 said:


> There are a lot of roundabouts in Washington, DC but they are different. They are controlled by traffic lights which is weird but better for pedestrians


Washington DC has several dozen "traffic circles", as we call them. Below is a list of them on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_circles_in_Washington,_D.C.

The name "roundabout" is used primarily outside the USA, but it is gaining popularity for circles built in new developments.

Dupont Circle is the city's most complicated circle. There, Connecticut Avenue, Massachusetts Avenue, New Hampshire Avenue, 19th Street and P Street all intersect. Connecticut Avenue passes under the circle in a tunnel. Massachusetts Avenue is routed around the south side of the circle, with traffic in opposite directions separated by a median. The northern half of the circle is one-way, counter-clockwise. There are traffic lights at each corner. The park in the middle of the circle is very popular, so that further complicates the pedestrian traffic patterns.

At the same time the tunnel ("underpass" to us Yanks) was built, there was also a parallel tunnel, with a station under the west side of the circle, built for the streetcars that ran along Connecticut Avenue. Sadly, the streetcars stopped running barely a decade after the tunnel opened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dupont_Circle

Oddly, only two of these several dozen circles are pure circles with no traffic lights - Chevy Chase Circle and Westmoreland Circle, both on Western Avenue, at the border between the District of Columbia and the State of Maryland. Half of each circle is in one jurisdiction and half in the other.


----------



## Frank IBC

Living inside a roundabout - maybe

Living 100 m from a 1-lane freeway - NOOOOO


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Frank IBC said:


> The name "roundabout" is used primarily outside the USA, but it is gaining popularity for circles built in new developments.


My GPS with the American voice uses the word "rotory", but I've never seen any American write it like that.


----------



## mgk920

ChrisZwolle said:


> My GPS with the American voice uses the word "rotory", but I've never seen any American write it like that.


That's common usage in the New England states, especially Massachusetts.

Mike


----------



## eusimcity4

I've been to Massachusetts and I gotta say, they do use rotary more common


----------



## Micbuk

Try ...


The Magic Roundabout in Swindon, England was constructed in 1972 and consists of five mini-roundabouts arranged in a circle. It is located near the County Ground, home of Swindon Town F.C. Its name comes from the popular children's television series The Magic Roundabout. In 2009 it was voted the fourth scariest junction in Britain,





http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/Magic_Roundabout_Schild_db.jpg/250px


Did you say no left or right turn ????

Right


----------



## Chilio

Some new pictures of one of the few roundabouts in Bulgaria's capital, opened last year on Sofia's Ring Road (transit traffic on it goes directly beneath):



















*Source, with a lot of aerials of Sofia and infrastructure*

P.S. Plus a bonus - why should people not try to go transit through roundabouts:



































Source of these pictures


----------



## Verso

Nowax said:


> Krakow


Why is the lane for turning left (in the middle of the roundabout), right of the lane for driving straight forward? Ok, you'd have to make some turns, if you drove straight forward, but it still looks weird.


----------



## bogdymol

Verso said:


> Why is the lane for turning left (in the middle of the roundabout), right of the lane for driving straight forward? Ok, you'd have to make some turns, if you drove straight forward, but it still looks weird.


I was thinking at the same thing (look on the previous page).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It may be a bus facility in case bus and tram arrive at the same time.


----------



## jeremiash

The inside of the "roundabout" is only for buses and trams. The inside lane is for trams mostly, that's why they made it a "forward" lane for buses as well. The outside lanes in the middle are for buses only.


----------



## Chilio

Another, more classical roundabout in Sofia:


----------



## MattiG

Two unusual cases from Finland:

Pori. Intersection of two boulevards. For some reason, it is organized as a roundabout by just adding some traffic signs:



















Does not look a roundabout.

Helsinki: A roundabout crossed by a street reserved for buses. In addition, there is a railroad, but it is currently not in regular use:










The bus street runs from top-left to bottom-left.










Non-standard traffic lights protect the bus street. Normally, similar ones are used at railroad and tramway crossings.

When the lights turn red, the whole roundabout traffic may be interrupted, because of waiting cars blocking the traffic flow.


----------



## rohjoe

Railway Roundabout at intersection of Brooker Ave & Liverpool St, Hobart.










Some earlier views from the 1960s


























Archives Office of Tasmania


----------



## Penn's Woods

^^Why's it called "Railway Roundabout"? I see no sign of a railway. (Are there any on Tasmania?)


----------



## Spookvlieger

^^Looks to me that roundabout could have a metrostop underneath?


----------



## gabrielbabb

Some of Mexico City

Independence Angel Roundabout











Diana Cazadora (Hunter Diana) Roundabout











Glorieta de Insurgentes











Palm Roundabout











Glorieta Caballito









Cibeles Roundabout










Roundabout Fuente de Petroleos in Periférico and Reforma Avenue


----------



## italystf

This is the very first roudabout ever built: Place Charles de Gaulle, Paris (1907):










In Italy the first roundabout was built in Lecco only in 1989, 30 years afrer our first motorways, complex interchanges and rest areas!


----------



## Nowax

Hulanka Roundabout in Bielsko-Biala ( Poland : )


----------



## gabrielbabb

I don't know if this is the oldest but this roundabout was started in 1906 to conmemorate the centennial of Mexico's Independence


----------



## Penn's Woods

italystf said:


> This is the very first roudabout ever built: Place Charles de Gaulle, Paris (1907):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ....


Uh, no.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dupont_Circle

And I'm not saying Dupont Circle's the oldest either. It's just the first one I looked up. Because the plan for Washington, which goes back to 1790ish, has circles on it. I'd guess Charles de Gaulle is older than 1907 too, for that matter. Or Columbus Circle in New York....

Although, upthread, you'll find an argument about whether these sort of big urban circles are roundabouts at all....


----------



## Penn's Woods

1856: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Circle
And it wasn't just a big circular open space in which traffic (then horse-drawn) could go every which way: there's mention in the article of a statue of Washington in the middle of it dedicated in 1860, and streetcar tracks going around the circle by 1862.


----------



## Verso

Something that resembles a raindrop roundabout in Ljubljana.


----------



## HMMS

dizee said:


> Now that's what I call a _mini_-roundabout. :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From one of those little Sicilian islands.


Stufs from Italy...............:nuts::lol:


----------



## italystf

HMMS said:


> Stufs from Italy...............:nuts::lol:


Never seen anything similar in Italy: it's an exception, not the rule.


----------



## pt640

italystf said:


> This is the very first roudabout ever built: Place Charles de Gaulle, Paris (1907):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Italy the first roundabout was built in Lecco only in 1989, 30 years afrer our first motorways, complex interchanges and rest areas!


^^
maybe not the oldest, but exciting to watch


----------



## seem

Banská Bystrica, SK


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Rotunda, Florida:


----------



## Tom 958

^^ Not a roundabout. 

This should be fun: I don't understand how traffic lights at roundabouts work. Can someone explain it to me?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Tom 958 said:


> This should be fun: I don't understand how traffic lights at roundabouts work. Can someone explain it to me?


They basically regulate traffic like on normal T-shaped intersections with traffic signals, but you can only turn right onto the roundabout. Traffic signals are often installed at busy multi-lane roundabouts. (those that aren't turbo roundabouts). There is a traffic signal-controlled roundabout in my city, I think it handles about 100,000 vehicles per day in total.


----------



## x-type

pt640 said:


>


Paris, India 

how many accidents happen there per day?
in HR there was problem with one quite large roundabout in Zagreb, and somebody got an idea to make regulation as in Paris or Rome. so, to erase all the signalization. now it is really dangerous because they don't drive too slow there, as in Paris.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Place Charles de Gaulle roundabout is more unique because there are actually 12 streets which enter the roundabout, instead of the usual 4. There is no way you can control that many streets with traffic signals, so this "chaos" is actually the best solution for traffic flow. There are no motorways in central Paris, but the traffic volumes on the Champs Elysées is still very high, I think it may be even up to 100.000 vehicles per day.


----------



## x-type

you are right. on Plaça Espanya in Barcelona they have installed traffic lights and they just make jams, although it is easier to navigate in the sea of cars with traffic lights.


----------



## italystf

Bitonto (BA)


----------



## bogdymol

italystf said:


> Bitonto (BA)
> 
> http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8503/bitonto.jpg


Got ya! It's not a countinue road!

But why did they do this road as such a perfect circle around this town?


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Place Charles de Gaulle roundabout is more unique because there are actually 12 streets which enter the roundabout, instead of the usual 4. There is no way you can control that many streets with traffic signals, so this "chaos" is actually the best solution for traffic flow. There are no motorways in central Paris, but the traffic volumes on the Champs Elysées is still very high, I think it may be even up to 100.000 vehicles per day.


Just out of curiosity, have you ever driven in it? (I haven't, obviously.) I hear it's quite an experience....


----------



## bogdymol

Penn's Woods said:


> Just out of curiosity, have you ever driven in it? (I haven't, obviously.) I hear it's quite an experience....


I haven't driven in it, but I've been a passenger there. You just have to be extremely careful at other cars, but the principle is quite simple... for few seconds the traffic flow comes from one direction and after that from the other direction.

Speaking of traffic-light controlled roundabouts, we have 3 in my town (1, 2, 3 - street view available at all 3). All 3 of them are also tram lines interchange. At the 3rd one the traffic lights are installed but they never worked because some streets in that area are u/c. They will work from the end of the year I guess. We also had a 4th roundabout with traffic lights, but during the last years they were turned off because the traffic is much better without them.


----------



## Minato ku

The place de l'Etoile (only tourists call it Charles de Gaulle ) is not a roundabout but a traffic circle.
The rules are different:
-In roundabout, cars inside the roundabout have the priority.
-In traffic circle, there is the priority to the right.

Place de la L'Etoile seems to have no rule but if we clearly look the traffic, we see that cars coming from right have the priority.





There is no roundabout inside Paris city limits, as there is no Stop sign.
If you don't see any traffic light, the priority to the right rule apply.


----------



## zsmg

Have there been any attempts in the past to control the traffic flow at place de l'Etoile?


----------



## Spookvlieger

^^What are they gonna do? Build a superstack over it? It's fine the way it is. It's the best way...


----------



## Minato ku

zsmg said:


> Have there been any attempts in the past to control the traffic flow at place de l'Etoile?


The traffic flow is controled by traffic light in avenues that lead in the traffic circle.




























There is also a tunnel going under place de l'Etoile (Avenue Champs Elysées to Avenue de la Grande Armée).


----------



## gabrielbabb

They are more simple to manage in Mexico people already know how to deal with them, besides the traffic lights are perfectly sinchronized if there is more traffic so that all the cars can pass


----------



## Spookvlieger

^^I agree, but in the case of paris, It's 12 streets entering the traffic circle, not 4 like in the vid of Mexico City you posted. So that's gonna be a hell of system they need to install in Paris of they want to do that...


----------



## zsmg

joshsam said:


> ^^What are they gonna do? Build a superstack over it? It's fine the way it is. It's the best way...


I was going to suggest traffic lights, a tunnel and proper road markings. Two of them are already there.


----------



## rohjoe

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^Why's it called "Railway Roundabout"? I see no sign of a railway. (Are there any on Tasmania?)


The railway once terminated at a station where the roundabout now stands but now terminates at the wharf area. Brooker Ave was constructed in the 1950s.

There certainly are railways here in Tasmania but they are freight only between the larger cities and ports (Burnie-Launceston-Bell Bay-Hobart). There has not been a passenger service since 1975.









©1993 - 2011 The Probert Encyclopaedia

Present day map:









©Tasmanian Government 1998


----------



## friedrichstrasse

italystf said:


> In Italy the first roundabout was built in Lecco only in 1989, 30 years afrer our first motorways, complex interchanges and rest areas!



:?
In Milan the first roundabouts were projected in 1912 city plan (example: piazzale Piola)


----------



## Minato ku

^^ It was a roundabout or a traffic circle ?
The first roundabout in France opened in 1984, now France with over 30,000 is the country with the most.


----------



## friedrichstrasse

Yes, of course a traffic circle, as the _Place de l'Etoile_ posted before...

Anyway, modern roundabouts exist in my homecity (Lodi, Lombardy) since the first 1970s, so many years before 1989...


----------



## italystf

Minato ku said:


> There is no roundabout inside Paris city limits, as there is no Stop sign.
> If you don't see any traffic light, the priority to the right rule apply.


Really? If a local dead end street meet an important boulevard must traffic on boulevard stop to give priority?
In Italy the priority to the right rule is virtually non-existent. Every intersections, except maybe some between 2 dirt roads in the countryside, has stop or yield signs.



friedrichstrasse said:


> Yes, of course a traffic circle, as the Place de l'Etoile posted before...
> 
> Anyway, modern roundabouts exist in my homecity (Lodi, Lombardy) since the first 1970s, so many years before 1989...


Are you sure they weren't traffic circles that were later reconverted in roundabouts?


----------



## friedrichstrasse

Yes! Now I understand what you mean: are "roundabouts" only the ones with free circle priority?

So it could be, I remember of such roundabouts since about 1993...

BTW, in Milan you can still find some old roundabouts with priority on the right, example piazza Aspari!


----------



## Minato ku

italystf said:


> Really? If a local dead end street meet an important boulevard must traffic on boulevard stop to give priority?


Even the Peripherique beltway has the priority to the right, it means that the cars coming inside this freeway have the priority over the cars already running on it.


----------



## xrtn2

The roundbouts in brazil are very wrong, see


----------



## poshbakerloo

In England we have had them for a long time. I'm not sure when the first one was but I know several where built in the 1920s-30s particularly around the London suburbs...Our motorway network has too many lol

The is the awful junction between M60 & M62, one of the busiest interchanges in the country but due to it being a roundabout its one of the worst as all the traffic that is changing direction has to share the name roads...









Sheffield's 'Hole in the road' aka Castle Square it was as a good idea in the 1960s but has since been filled in and all the roads around it downgraded...









Birmingham's Inner Ring Road, this side of it has now been removed...


----------



## Satyricon84

Taken by me in Dillenburg (Germany)


----------



## DanielFigFoz

In the UK the term 'traffic circle' isn't used


----------



## Mark19

i like roundabouts, they are so much better than traffic lights because, in traffic light you have to stop at least 2 min, in roundabout the traffic is fluid

the only problem y when the street is of 3 lanes and the roundabouts is of 2 lanes, its so dangerous

and they are so much cheaper than built "bridges"

examples here of my country









El Salvador 
San Salvador´s beltway


----------



## tradephoric

There are actually quite a few modern roundabouts that have been constructed in America since 1990. All 50 stats have at least 1 modern roundabout constructed. According to RoundaboutsUSA website there are over 2,600 modern roundabouts operating in the USA, not including the many small neighborhood traffic calming circles or the large 'monster-size' rotaries encountered in the northeastern states.

Here's a short video showing the evolution of modern roundabouts in America:





Link to download the google KMZ file shown in this video:
http://www.mediafire.com/?oooty22otn862r7

Here's an excel file of the roundabout database used to create the KMZ file:
http://www.mediafire.com/?e3qplbpd51yfdo7


----------



## Fargo Wolf

xrtn2 said:


> The roundbouts in brazil are very wrong, see


That's a rotary, which has different rules than a roundabout/traffic circle. In a rotary, you give way to traffic *ENTERING* the circle. In a roundabout/traffic circle, you give way to traffic already in it.


----------



## DanielFigFoz

Fargo Wolf said:


> That's a rotary, which has different rules than a roundabout/traffic circle. In a rotary, you give way to traffic *ENTERING* the circle. In a roundabout/traffic circle, you give way to traffic already in it.


In British English there's no difference, everything is a roundabout it its round and you drive in a circle

Edit: I realised that I've said this twice in one page :lol:


----------



## tradephoric

Here's an example of how heavy pedestrian traffic can create gridlock inside of the roundabout. This is a partial 3-lane roundabout constructed next to a high school in Kitchener, Ontario Canada.





For probably 30 minutes out of the day (15 minutes during school let in, and 15 minutes during school let out) the roundabout loses its effectiveness. Here's another video about this particular roundabout dealing with pedestrian safety:


----------



## agliati2005

Roundabouts are not an efficient way to control traffic in big cities. They should be eliminated.


----------



## CF221

^^ That's a very general comment, my friend... There's actually some roundabouts on or near the City of Miami (Downtown) and they are very good at distributing traffic... another example is the roundobout at the gate to Coral Gables, which works wonders... 

Tu comentario es demasiado general... pues hay lugares urbanos en los que si funcionan!


----------



## Spookvlieger

tradephoric said:


> Here's an example of how heavy pedestrian traffic can create gridlock inside of the roundabout. This is a partial 3-lane roundabout constructed next to a high school in Kitchener, Ontario Canada.


It's next to a school, they should have thought about that and build a tunnel for bikes and pedestrians. I've never seen such a big roundabout without pedestrian and biketunnels overhere especially not near a school...

Problem solved.


----------



## DanielFigFoz

joshsam said:


> It's next to a school, they should have thought about that and build a tunnel for bikes and pedestrians. *I've never seen such a big roundabout without pedestrian and biketunnels overhere especially not near a school...
> *
> Problem solved.


Really?!


----------



## Spookvlieger

^^A small one yes when it's a 1+1 road, not a 3 lane roundabout with heavy traffic connecting 2+2 roads no. Never seen that overhere, they always have tunnels.

Few examples in my area: (and all these roads are smaller than the one in the vid above and are not near a school)

http://g.co/maps/z7488
http://g.co/maps/frkgk
http://g.co/maps/6fhsv

Building a new roundabout with pedestrian tunnel:

http://g.co/maps/txgka


----------



## RKC

agliati2005 said:


> Roundabouts are not an efficient way to control traffic in big cities. They should be eliminated.


that's just simply not true


----------



## RKC

tradephoric said:


> Here's an example of how heavy pedestrian traffic can create gridlock inside of the roundabout. This is a partial 3-lane roundabout constructed next to a high school in Kitchener, Ontario Canada.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For probably 30 minutes out of the day (15 minutes during school let in, and 15 minutes during school let out) the roundabout loses its effectiveness.


The problem is pedestrians just keep coming, they could have a person (like a lollipop lady) allowing bigger groups to cross at once so they won' hold up traffic forever - I can easily imagine highschool kids just wondering about talking etc. holding up half the town. I've experienced it before.


----------



## Spookvlieger

or be smart and build a pedestrian tunnel -.-


----------



## DanielFigFoz

x-type said:


> cool phenomena on river Kupa in Karlovac





nenea_hartia said:


> Is that a water roundabout?


Oh yeaah :banana:


----------



## Paddington

tradephoric said:


> There are actually quite a few modern roundabouts that have been constructed in America since 1990. All 50 stats have at least 1 modern roundabout constructed. According to RoundaboutsUSA website there are over 2,600 modern roundabouts operating in the USA, not including the many small neighborhood traffic calming circles or the large 'monster-size' rotaries encountered in the northeastern states.
> 
> Here's a short video showing the evolution of modern roundabouts in America:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link to download the google KMZ file shown in this video:
> http://www.mediafire.com/?oooty22otn862r7
> 
> Here's an excel file of the roundabout database used to create the KMZ file:
> http://www.mediafire.com/?e3qplbpd51yfdo7


:badnews:


----------



## poshbakerloo

joshsam said:


> or be smart and build a pedestrian tunnel -.-


Tunnels are awful! Here in Sheffield, UK the big roundabouts on the Ring Road have tunnels under them and at night its awful! At least have bridges above the roads which are open. A lot of the city centre roundabouts just have surface crossings, but set a bit further down the road away from the roundabout to stop traffic get backed up when ever someone crosses...


----------



## Spookvlieger

^^Well, they need to be wide enough andhave decent lighting to prevent people feeling unsave. They are everywhere in Belgium to yet I rarely feel unsave in them. (see my post on previous page)


----------



## poshbakerloo

joshsam said:


> ^^Well, they need to be wide enough andhave decent lighting to prevent people feeling unsave. They are everywhere in Belgium to yet I rarely feel unsave in them. (see my post on previous page)


I agree that they do need to be well lit, but in reality...they never are lol


----------



## Spookvlieger

^^The ones I know are. Bright tl lamps on both sides always...


----------



## poshbakerloo

joshsam said:


> ^^The ones I know are. Bright tl lamps on both sides always...


Most of the ones built in the 60s-70s when the idea of it came about are awful. I'm sure better things could be done, but any tunnel in an urban area just for people is a bad idea. If you really wanna keep people off a road, I say use bridges...


----------



## eskandarany

Britain's pedestrian tunnels are almost always dark and dangerous.


----------



## Chilio

I surely will prefer this:









instead of this:









or this:









or even this:









All examples above are from Bulgaria, last one is in Plovdiv, others are in Sofia. Not all pedestrian tunnels and underpasses look so bad, but still that is what happens to most of them in the time in the suburbs etc.

But not to be so offtopic, I there are only same-level pedestrian crossings on bulgarian roundabouts, no tunnels, no bridges. But still, they're also not build at places, where there so much pedestrian traffic.

Examples from Sofia:

Sofia's Ring Road's junction with road to Dragalevtsi - here

Roundabout at 4th km of Tsarigradsko Shaussee boulevard - here

Roundabout at Stochna Gara square (street-light regulated) - here

Roundabout at Nadezhda Overpass (no pedestrian crossings at all) - here

Small roundabout on the older road to Sofia Airport (no pedestrian walkways are drawn, although quite often there are pedestrians) - here

etc...


----------



## RKC

joshsam said:


> ^^The ones I know are. Bright tl lamps on both sides always...


We have a lot of pedestrian underpasses, subways etc. nowdays where possible they are making new zebra crossings, so people don't have to go underground all the time. In reality no one wants to go up and down lots of stairs to be in a dark, dirty underpass, where you can also get into trouble. It is an obsolate concept used when car traffic had priority in terms of town planning, traffic planning (that's why lots of tramlines and such were demolished all over Europr to make way for roads, etc.).

So in theory they might be the logical solution, in practice no one like's them who actually has to use them...

this is a typical inner city underpass/subway, with metro connection (Blaha Lujza Square). For a long time you had to come down here even if you didn't need the metro, only wanted to cross the street. There are now new zebra crossings overground, which were immediately used by large crowds of people, indicating that lot of the pedestrian traffic didn't need to go down to the subway at all (cars had to stop at the intersection anyway, so the new zebras don't even hold up traffic).








http://criticalmass.hu/files/alaulj.jpg

new zebras:








http://m.blog.hu/ep/epitos/image/zebra/zebra01.jpg


----------



## RKC

as you go out of town things get less pretty, lol.

Békásmegyer








http://img1.indafoto.hu/8/7/95807_4267d5d3159b66d6c1ed049cce7da4c7/9168011_e85a967aa8d513e4a4f2671723aee367_m.jpg









http://www.metropol.hu/images/2009/05/1241793160_aluljaro1.jpg

Örs Vezér Square








http://kep.index.hu/1/0/165/1654/16540/1654061_6a22888eb273fca16c6960346ffa5a21_wm.jpg

Astoria I think:








http://terfigyelokamerarendszerek.hu/kamerarendszer/terfigyelo/aluljaro2-kamerarendszer.jpg

Nyugati Station








http://m.blog.hu/vi/vilagvaros/image/DSC03346-1.JPG









http://fmh.hu/image.aspx?id=8f44a51c-552c-49a3-8264-322da26e3035&view=d687bb3a-509a-49ca-b43e-cbc038e76e5b

Erzsébet Királyné útja








http://www.hangfogo.hu/kepek/Budapest_vegyes/ErKirAlGit.JPG

Petőfi híd








http://img9.indafoto.hu/3/9/28459_afb10ddfce75e4a231f083365f04e08f/6311561_f4f9f9c4fcad1941a1336a35d376b224_m.jpg

Hungária körút








http://ideiglenes.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/zsofia-kesz-van.jpg


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Tunnels tend to be unsafe, although a lot can be mitigated by a decent design. Many pedestrian tunnels fall into neglect, and lack of police enforcement also doesn't help. In the Netherlands we have gazillions of bicycle tunnels, and while they pose some problems here and there, it works great because the newer ones are very well designed. For instance a tunnel should preferrably not have curves, well-lit and wide, so you can always look through the entire thing before you enter it. We also have motorcycle cops who frequently patrol through these tunnels on their way.


----------



## italystf

Pedestrian tunnel are fine during daytime when roads are very busy and there are many people crossing them (so less chances to find yourself alone with dangerous people). During night should be closed to avoid crime risks and because lower traffic make easier crossing the road. However, also during daytime, tunnels should be monitored by cameras and police agents.


----------



## Spookvlieger

The longest I've walked in the one underneath the Schelde river in Antwerp. It's kinda busy at times and is 572 meters long.

Anyway all new roundabouts on busy roads in Belgium have pedestrain and bike tunnels. They look good, are wide and never made me feel unsave and look like this:

new: (2010)









old: 1995 (but got a cleanup)










Although I agree they are neglected many times, it's still better than the video posted where pedestrians keep up traffic.


----------



## Triple C

A wide roundabout in Ankara with ~200m diameter: http://harita.yandex.com.tr/-/CJew70NB


----------



## Chilio

Not radius but diameter... A radius is 1/2 of the diameter.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What's the average cost of a standard roundabout in your area?

This T-intersection will be replaced by a roundabout in the coming months. As you can see no additional right-of-way is necessary (no expropriation). The cost of this one-lane roundabout is € 406.000


----------



## brewerfan386

mgk920 said:


> Why would one want to drive into the lake? Wouldn't 'Eau Claire' be a better 'control' for that sign?
> Mike


Its referring to the Village of Lake Hallie, WI. http://lakehallie.us/


----------



## mgk920

brewerfan386 said:


> Its referring to the Village of Lake Hallie, WI. http://lakehallie.us/


Well, I am aware of that strange stepchild of a municipality, I was just being a bit facetious.

:colgate:

Eau Claire is far better known outside of that very local area, though.

Mike


----------



## sirfreelancealot

In my view, multilane roundabouts are fine if the deflection of the approach road puts the path of traffic entering the roundabout on a tangent with the lane they should be in on the roundabout. This used to happen in the UK in the mid-late 1980s, but for some reason the deflection rules have changed where vehicles are put on a path that forces them to make a tighter turn as they enter the roundabout (not before). 

The effect of this rule change is that lane 1 of the roundabout entrance usually becomes lined up at a tangential path with lane 2 of the roundabout instead of lane 1 and, hence, this encourages people to take a "racing line" when negotiating it. This is fine if no-one else is about, but with other traffic this leads to a lot of near misses where people from lane 1 cut other drivers up as they drift across into lane 2. It also works very poorly when roundabouts become signalised and where there are a lack of guide markings - marking standards in the UK at junctions are pretty vague and are getting worse in this respect, despite the UK's patronising "nannying" approch to transport in most other respects.


----------



## Peines

Well, this is a special roundabout... *because is just a left-hand traffic roundabout in a country with right-hand traffic*. :nuts:

It's inside "Parking Alfonso el Sabio" in Alfonso X El Sabio Avenue in Alicante, Spain. This underground CarPark go along this avenue.










It's located on the lower (-2) level, and as you can see this roundabout it's designed for connect two sections (Zones) and their ramps (upper to lower level).























































And you can se how long is this place...!!!









P.S.: Yes, that liquid that you can see on the floor is not water... is pee... :crazy:


----------



## g.spinoza

Just found what is possibly the worst roundabout statue in the universe:



sk25 said:


> Rotonda Pentri di Benevento:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Particolare dell'opera d'arte:


The statue should represent Padre Pio from Pietrelcina, recently become Saint Pio. It looks more like a Japanese Gundam-style megarobot.


----------



## seem

In Liptovský Mikuláš, Slovakia they have this epic roundabout with a church in the middle of it.. :nuts:










http://www.panoramio.com/photo/45314071


----------



## Verso

:hilarious


----------



## italystf

Saint Pio would leave his grave and kill the "artist" 

Much better the world's biggest chair in that roundabout in Manzano.


----------



## Coccodrillo

Four lane roundabout near Affi at the end of SS 450: 










It is here but clouds cover it on Google Maps (but it's visible on Google Earth).

By the way, it's a pity SS 450 is not a motorway linket to both A4 and A22...

(crosspost from the Italian thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=94975175#post94975175)


----------



## verreme

g.spinoza said:


> Just found what is possibly the worst roundabout statue in the universe:
> 
> 
> 
> The statue should represent Padre Pio from Pietrelcina, recently become Saint Pio. It looks more like a Japanese Gundam-style megarobot.


Roundabout in Castellón airport. This airport has actually hosted no flights since its opening last year, and will remain aircraftless for a long time. This statue is dedicated to its driving force, Carlos Fabra, president of Diputación Provincial de Castellón (Castellón province administration), who is involved in big corruption scandals.










Hope Benevento is OK with second place.


----------



## italystf

In Italy there is a never completed airport too, in Comiso, Sicily.


----------



## verreme

italystf said:


> In Italy there is a never completed airport too, in Comiso, Sicily.


Well this one _is_ complete. The only thing missing is air navigation permits.


----------



## g.spinoza

verreme said:


> Hope Benevento is OK with second place.


Mmm, it's a tight war, but I still think that Saint Pio - Mazinger beats the airplane-eating clay beast


----------



## pt640

map: http://goo.gl/rkiaT


----------



## Mark19

what about this kind of roundabout?

















or something a little bit more crazy, the magic roundabout


----------



## keokiracer

Mark19 said:


> what about this kind of roundabout?


You mean a standard turboroundabout?

Here's a map of all turboroundabouts in the world. There are 299 of them, at least, 299 are known. If you've got another one, you can submit it  
It was a Dutch idea, that's why there are so many in The Netherlands. Hungary has quite a lot of them too.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

^^ If only I knew the difference between turboverkeersplein or knierotonde, for example  or any other category of turbo roundabouts :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Hmm, that site claims the capacity of a 3-lane turbo roundabout is 12,000 vehicles per hour. I highly doubt that, that's similar to 6 lanes of free-flowing freeway traffic.


----------



## keokiracer

Rebasepoiss said:


> ^^ If only I knew the difference between turboverkeersplein or knierotonde, for example  or any other category of turbo roundabouts :lol:


Explanation + real-life examples can be found here


----------



## CNGL

Does this one in Zaragoza count? At first it was a normal roundabout, but it caused traffic jams (Such roundabouts are called "rotontas" in Spanish, which could be translated into "round-a-fools") so it was repainted onto a turboroundabout. If your guys agree then it is missing from the turboroundabout map.


----------



## keokiracer

Might have something to do with traffic priority. With a lot of traffic turning left on such roundabout they don't have to wait before they canturn and go, but are given priority.

In what extend this helps? I don't know...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

metasmurf said:


> But aren't roundabouts built as obstacles or speed reducers these days?:dunno: There are some built in my town for this purpose rather than improving traffic flow, i.e 90% of the traffic is going straight through the roundabout thus making it an obstacle. I predict a future where roundabouts will be overbuilt to obscurity in the name of traffic safety.


Yep, that's a trend in the Netherlands as well, especially on rural provincial highways where there are roundabouts every few kilometers nowadays. Highly annoying, especially for trucks. It can take a truck up to 800 meters to accelerate to 80 km/h again.


----------



## italystf

Halfpipesaur said:


> How are those better than standard equal priority intersections?


Here in Italy we don't have equal priority intersections. In absence of roundabouts or traffic lights, there is always a road with the priority and the other with stop/give way sign.


----------



## geor

italystf said:


> Here in Italy we don't have equal priority intersections. In absence of roundabouts or traffic lights, there is always a road with the priority and the other with stop/give way sign.


^^
Italy is not exception.

I think there is a general traffic rule (in the World) at the intersection when there is no signals&traffic lights: RIGHT OF WAY FROM THE RIGHT SIDE
In UK and similar countries it is from the left.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

priority to the right has also been abused as a traffic calming measure. It's not uncommon to have a through route having to give way to a minor road, which isn't very logical from a driver point of view. This is also where most accidents occur with priority issues.


----------



## italystf

geor said:


> ^^
> Italy is not exception.
> 
> I think there is a general traffic rule (in the World) at the intersection when there is no signals&traffic lights: RIGHT OF WAY FROM THE RIGHT SIDE
> In UK and similar countries it is from the left.


This general rule exists in Italy too but since virtually all intersections have signs, it has little practical usage, except between two dirt roads in the countryside.
Even intersections with traffic lights have give way signs to be used when lights are out of service.


----------



## verreme

^^ Same in Spain. There is a rule in our driving code that says that vehicles coming from the right have priority in an intersection, but all intersections have either a Stop or a give way sign.


----------



## italystf

Probably those rules are left-overs from the first part of the XX century, before the mass motorization, when road signs didn't exist anywhere like today.


----------



## Wilhem275

They still apply at all those intersections with 5+ branches, were only 2 have full priority and the rest must rely on the "right rule".


----------



## garethni

geor said:


> ^^
> I think there is a general traffic rule (in the World) at the intersection when there is no signals&traffic lights: RIGHT OF WAY FROM THE RIGHT SIDE
> In UK and similar countries it is from the left.


In Ireland it seems to be from the right too, despite driving on the left.

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/junctions.html


----------



## Chilio

I think original source of the rule for the right side priority came from knights riding horses  and is based on human's anatomy (heart on the left, usually stronger right arm) rather than on where people drive.


----------



## DanielFigFoz

I read on there that it's priority on the right the UK as well, although it's an unheard of rule.


----------



## Gareth

Giving way to traffic from the right is something you learn for driving theory in the UK and it applies to most roundabouts. Essentially, joining traffic gives way to traffic already on the roundabout.


----------



## DanielFigFoz

I didn't study for the theory test. You do give way to the right on roundabouts, but roundabouts aren't 'normal' unsignalled junctions.

EDIT: I guess I did study it, I read the highway code over and over when I was little


----------



## Verso

garethni said:


> In Ireland it seems to be from the right too, despite driving on the left.
> 
> http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/junctions.html





DanielFigFoz said:


> I read on there that it's priority on the right the UK as well, although it's an unheard of rule.


Yes, I had to ask that someone before I started driving in Australia (it's the same there).


----------



## Verso

garethni said:


> http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/junctions.html












Ridiculous! :lol:


----------



## CNGL

And once again, another roundabout is being built in Huesca. And with this one we have... well, we have so many that I lost the count! :nuts:. But the funniest fact is that this one is located in a bridge! More :nuts: then.


----------



## liburni

Prishtina, Kosovo


----------



## Verso

http://goo.gl/maps/YnSRF

Weirdest roundabout ever.

















http://www.podvelka.si/novice/novica.php?id=9372&jez=1&titl=V%20PODVELKI%20POSTAVILI%20MLAJ


----------



## snowdog

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yep, that's a trend in the Netherlands as well, especially on rural provincial highways where there are roundabouts every few kilometers nowadays. Highly annoying, especially for trucks. It can take a truck up to 800 meters to accelerate to 80 km/h again.


The worst about roundabouts is people treating a roundabout as a stop sign or going over them @ 15 km/h...

If people would just use them as intended they wouldn't slow down car traffic ( ignoring trucks) at all.


Most roundabouts in cities in NL can easily be taken at 45-50 km/h yet people slow down dramatically for them.

https://maps.google.nl/?ll=51.95746...t1LfXfaabSLkpvU-w1DqXw&cbp=12,271.23,,0,-1.58
For example, I drive that route daily, I leave an extra large gap with the car in front to hopefully not have to brake yet still end up having to slam my brake even though that roundabout can easily be done @ 40 km/h with the average car.
With cutting the inside a bit even 60 km/h is doable . Yes it's not extremely comfortable but even with 4 different types ditchfinder tyres on an ages old 1993 car in the wet 50 km/h will not make it skid if you go straight on the roundabout...


I'm all for roundabouts replacing traffic lights in low-medium traffic situations.
I'm very against roundabouts replacing regular right of way intersections outside of cities.

I like roundabouts personally, they keep traffic moving better than some crappy traffic lights which are bound to slow you down!

I wish The Netherlands used FAR more bypasses though for regular intersections with traffic lights and roundabouts! There is often more than enough space, especially on N roads!


----------



## g.spinoza

A reminder sign on a roundabout in Vipiteno/Sterzing:


----------



## Road_UK

I was there the day before yesterday...


----------



## italystf

earthJoker said:


> You indicate only when you leave the roundabout, that's what the law says. It is enough if it's done properly.


Many people that got their license long time ago don't know this rule because roundabouts weren't virtually never used here until the 90s.

I do that almost all times. There are very few roundabouts where I don't turn the right indicator if I go straight on the main road. I know that it's technically wrong, but when the roundabout it's a small circle in the middle of a big road (with the side roads rarely used), turning the right indicator looks like you're turning right.
https://maps.google.it/maps?q=Ligna...iadoro,+Udine,+Friuli-Venezia+Giulia&t=h&z=19


----------



## DanielFigFoz

I do this:










Rule 186 of the Highway Code.


----------



## Road_UK

DanielFigFoz said:


> I do this:


The correct way. You'll get your like when I get on the ssc website later... 

(android app doesn't allow it)


----------



## Vaud

DanielFigFoz said:


> I do this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rule 186 of the Highway Code.


That's what I do, except for getting in the inside part of the roundabout when going to the right, mainly because if there's too much traffic it can be hard to turn left to exit, and if there's an accident in that case the fault will always lie on the person who was quitting the roundabout.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Forgive my ignorance - roundabouts are (thankfully) rare here - but (1) if someone ahead of me was about to enter a roundabout (in a country where that involves physically turning right) and simultaneously signaling left, my first thought would be "huh?". And (2) I'm not sure my car would even let me do that: If I hit the left signal and then turned right, I think that would automatically cancel the signal.


----------



## Penn's Woods

Roundabout fans, or non-fans, need to check out the latest posts on the Canadian thread right now....


----------



## Verso

There are two 3-lane roundabouts in Ljubljana, nothing unusual, except that it might not be necessary (but I can imagine congestions). It's more interesting that one of them was the first roundabout in Slovenia, so we started quite complicated. :lol:



DanielFigFoz said:


> I do this:


Good, except for the green car turning right indicator when entering the roundabout; I don't like that.



Vaud said:


> That's what I do, except for getting in the inside part of the roundabout when going to the right, mainly because if there's too much traffic it can be hard to turn left to exit, and if there's an accident in that case the fault will always lie on the person who was quitting the roundabout.


Well, I hate such people. That's why you have the inner lane, not to block traffic trying to enter the roundabout.


----------



## g.spinoza

DanielFigFoz said:


> I do this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rule 186 of the Highway Code.


Why on Earth is the blue car signaling when entering the roundabout? He should do so only exiting.


EDIT: Sorry, I understand now that he signals only exiting. I just had troubles with the left-hand driving.

By the way, Road_UK, that's exactly what I said it's the correct way. Why did you say earlier that it was not, and now you agree? Or did I get it wrong?

RE-EDIT: I didn't see the green car signaling at the beginning. Gosh, I must be a bit confused.


----------



## Road_UK

I just had a few beers, I don't know anymore... 3 quarter left is indicate left until approaching exit, then indicate right. DanielFigFoz has posted a UK version, so obviously it's the other way round.


----------



## bavarian urbanist

blinking left when entering a roundabout seems strange to me. A roundabout is neither a kind of intersection nor something like a motorway. It's a special concept and you don't signal when entering so as not to confuse other drivers. 
This might be different on Turborotondes, though as you are sorted to a special lane before entering it...


----------



## Road_UK

Like I said... Germans and Austrians do not understand the concept of negotiating a roundabout properly. Someone once told me it's because it's a relatively new fenomenen...


----------



## g.spinoza

My gf's studying to get her license, so I went and looked up in her book to see the Italian way. I found this: "there is no mention in Codice della Strada about roundabouts. Generally they have to be treated like any normal intersection, i.e. _giving way to the right_ but in recent times a new approach, come from France, has surfaced, i.e. _giving way to cars already in the roundabout_. All must be supported by proper signage".

No mention of blinkers behavior, either.


----------



## Road_UK

That explains a lot about Italian roundabouts. :lol: , I actually enjoy them. Always a challenge to mingle with traffic already on the roundabout. I see it in Turin and Milan all the time. Always a Fiat Panda about suddenly swerving from the inside straight to the exit right in front of hooting cars still going round...


----------



## DanielFigFoz

Penn's Woods said:


> Forgive my ignorance - roundabouts are (thankfully) rare here - but (1) if someone ahead of me was about to enter a roundabout (in a country where that involves physically turning right) and simultaneously signaling left, my first thought would be "huh?". And (2) I'm not sure my car would even let me do that: If I hit the left signal and then turned right, I think that would automatically cancel the signal.


Yeah sometimes my car cancels it and I have to put it on again.


----------



## Wilhem275

g.spinoza said:


> My gf's studying to get her license, so I went and looked up in her book to see the Italian way. I found this: "there is no mention in Codice della Strada about roundabouts.
> ...
> No mention of blinkers behavior, either.


Actually that's not wrong: IF the roundabout is built with all proper signage, then the Code already contains enough rules to deal with it.
It's just a matter of choosing the rule which best fits the case; of course this work of interpretation should be done by experts, and rendered to the general public in the form of simple how-to guides.

Abount blinkers, the Code says very few things: you must signal when turning at an intersection, and when changing lane (read it as: every time you cross a lane marking). And this is all you actually need to know!  And I'll explain why.

A roundabout is not just a kind of intersection: it is in fact a short one-way road, with a number of roads terminating into it.
If lanes are drawn properly (which rarely happens), this concept is pretty self-explanatory:









That's why I use the motorway example: as motorway on- and off-ramps, lanes just merge in and diverge from the main one-way road.

What does the Code say about signalling? Signal every time you cross a lane marking. So it is, exactly as in motorways:
- left blinker when getting in, because you are merging towards left (your vehicle hits the dotted line with its left side)
- no blinker when travelling on the one-way road, because you are keeping in the same lane (no dotted line is crossed)
- right blinker when getting out, because you are diverging towards right (your vehicle hits the dotted line with its right side)

In real life, since too much blinking in a small spot can be confusing, I suggest to avoid left-blinking when getting into mini- to medium-sized roundabouts: when merging it's obvious where you're going.
But by no mean there is a need for keeping a blinker while inside it.
Right-signalling is then important to improve the flow, so we must insist on it.


The Code already tells how to cope with roundabouts, because they're not special intersections but just a different arrangement of existing design elements (already taken into account by the rules).
Our problem is not the lack of a new rule, it is to enforce those which already exist... and apply proper signage to road works.

PS: if you think about it, the usage of blinkers has nothing to do with the safety of traffic in a roundabout. The point is to always yield. If every driver gives the proper way, there is no risk of accidents; and this must be ensured through a fail-safe policy.
Signalling is actually useful just to improve the flow.


----------



## Iregua

I still remember what I was told when I was trying to get my B (car) license:

-If the roundabout is located inside a town, you should take the outer lane if you want to do 1 or 2 quarters, otherwise you should take the inner lane until the previous exit then move to the outer lane and leave.

-But, if the roundabout is outside a town, you should always take the outer lane unless you want to overtake someone.

The explanation is that roundabouts weren't considered a crossing but a circle-shaped street to which all the other streets have to yield. Then, inside a town, as in any other street, you must choose the most appropriate lane to your destination, and outside town, as in any other road, you must drive on the right except when overtaking.

But later, when I was trying to get my A (motorbike) license, I was told to always take the outer lane for "safety reasons" (?).


However, since I got my licenses I have always done what DanielFigFoz posted, no matter if I am driving a car or a motorbike inside or outside a town. From my experience, I find it much safer 


EDIT:

I forgot to say that I always yield to BOTH inner and outer lanes even if I'm taking the first exit, because at least here in Spain you still can expect people to leave the roundabout directly from the inner lane withouth even using the right blinker. That makes me think that some roundabouts should have only one lane, as this one in the US:


----------



## Penn's Woods

From the Canadian thread:



Haljackey said:


> A new 3 lane roundabout on Highway 406 in Welland has opened: http://www.wellandtribune.ca/2013/09/05/live-new-406-roundabout-draws-spectators
> 
> Video of the highway... with a fail about 20 secs in on the roundabout:





Penn's Woods said:


> A *three-lane* roundabout? I find it horrifying that such a monstrosity exists on the same side of the Atlantic as me. I've just been looking at the roundabouts thread and the two-laners seem bad enough. I'll remember to avoid the area. (And why does a 400-series highway have roundabouts at all?)
> 
> And a "fail," you say? I don't have time to watch a 16-minute video right now, but you should post that in the roundabouts thread!
> 
> EDIT: I realized on rereading the "fail's" 20 seconds into the video, not 20 seconds into the roundabout, which I thought at first might be anywhere, so I did watch it.
> 
> Read the article too: love the idea of people setting up a tailgate party to watch it....





geogregor said:


> I can't believe it. So much fuss about simple bloody roundabout hno:
> 
> I loved some of the comments under the article in the local news.
> People were basically expected the gates of hell to open and they are a bit surprised that the end of the world didn't happen :lol:


----------



## Penn's Woods

My response to the above:

I'm more a geography geek than a road geek (my interest in roads is in knowing where they go...) so I don't know the safety statistics and I'm sure there are people here who are prepared to tell me that I'm an idiot, but it just seems to be common sense that if you ask people to get into the left lane entering a roundabout because they're going 270 degrees, and then in a short time they're going to need to cross TWO lanes to make a right, you're just asking for trouble.

I have no trouble with one-lane roundabouts, even the sort of wide ones that permit you, if you're going to be taking the first exit, to sort of keep right from the start. I grew up in New Jersey, we've had that sort of thing since the 20s; we just call them traffic circles. But they're all reasonably big so Wilhem275's description of them as really just a series of separate intersections works. But this three-lane model just seems to be problematic. I have an urge to put traffic lights at every entrance to the roundabout so that those people who'll have to turn right from the left lane can do so safely, but that just defeats the purpose, doesn't it...?


----------



## Verso

Ok, that explains it. :lol:


----------



## italystf

Wilhem275 said:


> If your exit is the first one, the concepts of "entering" and "leaving the roundabout" are pretty much the same thing :troll:


https://maps.google.it/maps?q=porto...d=StxLO8A3_YwJ51ccxIyVxg&cbp=12,20.41,,1,4.66
Here, if you want to turn right, you should put the right indicator before entering the roundabout.

https://maps.google.it/maps?q=porto...dNEHvfjZ4b1iuevw32Mgew&cbp=12,153.14,,0,20.19
Here you may turn the right indicator just after entering the roundabout.


----------



## Glodenox

I never use the left indicator when entering the roundabout, but I do sometimes use it when I'm already on it and am going to make a 3/4 turn or more. It shouldn't be necessary as the right indicator when going to exit should suffice, but I look at it as a further confirmation that I'm not going to exit straight without using my indicator.

I'm not much of a fan of regular double-lane roundabouts either, unless we're talking about those "turbo-roundabouts", which have proper lane markings that move outwards, much like that roundabout of Welland. Example of what I don't like: https://www.google.be/maps/preview#...m4!1e1!2m2!1sULcFClc8zZQvEsk0b__04w!2e0&fid=5


----------



## g.spinoza

Since you enter a roundabout, which is a one-way street, using the blinkers when entering is non necessary.


----------



## Verso

Glodenox said:


> Example of what I don't like: https://www.google.be/maps/preview#...m4!1e1!2m2!1sULcFClc8zZQvEsk0b__04w!2e0&fid=5


Even worse: http://goo.gl/maps/dF9qp.


----------



## Wilhem275

^^ Turboroundabouts would fit perfectly there... and in a lot of hideous 2-lane ones.



g.spinoza said:


> Since you enter a roundabout, which is a one-way street, using the blinkers when entering is non necessary.


Actually I don't agree with the general concept of not indicating when following a mandatory direction.

Leaving small roudabouts apart, whose spaces don't make all this blinking possible, we must keep in mind that signalling is a way to communicate not only with drivers, but to everyone on the road.
EG, in a urban intersection, there may be pedestrians who may not know how it works, and it's up to me telling them that I'm going to turn right instead of going straight (so they don't cross my path carelessly).

Following the "one-way" rule, we shouldn't even signal when entering the motorway, since it's obvious where we're going...

The law, at least in Italy, is simple: signal every time you turn (> change road) and every time you change lane (> cross a dotted line). No exceptions are contemplated


----------



## g.spinoza

Using the blinkers is useful to disambiguate. I can go here, or I can go there. I fail to see the point in signaling when going the only possible way I can go. I'm not saying it is wrong, it's just redundant.

Signaling while entering the motorway is a bit different: it is useful to let people in the motorway know WHEN I want to merge. I can decide to use up all the acceleration lane, so I signal later than if I choose to merge at the beginning of it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

roundabout, Filipino style (10 lanes)


----------



## Haljackey

Roundabout rail overpass in London, Canada.


----------



## Wilhem275

^^ Something similar in Lepizig:
https://maps.google.ch/?hl=en&ll=51.362013,12.39978&spn=0.001956,0.002411&t=k&z=19


----------



## KIWIKAAS

I don't understand this do/don't signal debate at all. Signaling is on roundabouts is just as normal as at other intersections.
If I am entering a roundabout and exiting right, then I signal right. If I am going straight then I dont signal at first but then signal right at the point I am exiting (this lets traffic entering the roundabout see that I am exiting). If I'm going left then I signal left and then signal right at the exit point (this shows traffic entering at 2 points what I am doing. One will have to wait while the other can enter the roundabout). Perfectly logical and curtious. Drivers that don't signal irritate me. They bugger up the flow with traffic waiting unnecessarily.


----------



## keokiracer

Wilhem275 said:


> ^^ Something similar in Lepizig:
> https://maps.google.ch/?hl=en&ll=51.362013,12.39978&spn=0.001956,0.002411&t=k&z=19


And something similar in Rosmalen, The Netherlands
https://maps.google.nl/maps?q=+&hl=nl&sll=51.708889,5.381767&sspn=0.001885,0.005284&t=h&z=18


----------



## Penn's Woods

Haljackey said:


> Roundabout rail overpass in London, Canada.


Snowing already?! :jk:


----------



## italystf

g.spinoza said:


> Using the blinkers is useful to disambiguate. I can go here, or I can go there. I fail to see the point in signaling when going the only possible way I can go. I'm not saying it is wrong, it's just redundant.
> 
> Signaling while entering the motorway is a bit different: it is useful to let people in the motorway know WHEN I want to merge. I can decide to use up all the acceleration lane, so I signal later than if I choose to merge at the beginning of it.


My driving school teacher used to say that it's mandatory to signal when you change lane or you merge, but not when you turn at an intersection with only a direction allowed (you may or may not signal). At roundabouts we were forced to signal right before exiting (NOT signaling right when entering and NOT signaling left while skipping an exit).


----------



## italystf

KIWIKAAS said:


> I don't understand this do/don't signal debate at all. Signaling is on roundabouts is just as normal as at other intersections.
> If I am entering a roundabout and exiting right, then I signal right. If I am going straight then I dont signal at first but then signal right at the point I am exiting (this lets traffic entering the roundabout see that I am exiting). If I'm going left then I signal left and then signal right at the exit point (this shows traffic entering at 2 points what I am doing. One will have to wait while the other can enter the roundabout). Perfectly logical and curtious. Drivers that don't signal irritate me. They bugger up the flow with traffic waiting unnecessarily.


There is not such things like "going straight", "turning right" or "turning left" at a roundabout. There's only entering the roundabout and exiting it somewhere. How do you determine what it's straight, right or left in a roundabout where 5 or 6 roads merge (instead of the usual 4 or 3)?


----------



## KIWIKAAS

The same indication principles apply as the example I gave above (for a standard roundabout without traffic lights and yielding from the entry points. In the case a standard 4 point roundabout....which is about 90% of roundabouts). At a 5 or more point roundabout where I would be exiting at, lets say the 4th point, then I would indicate as per the example for going left (left indicator and then right at the exit).
Are you familiar with roundabouts?


----------



## Wilhem275

Probably half of EU roundabouts are here :lol:

What I don't understand is the advantage of signalling you're staying in. The fact itself that you are already in is enough to give way to you; unless you signal otherwise (right), in which case traffic flow can get in faster.


----------



## earthJoker

italystf said:


> My driving school teacher used to say that it's mandatory to signal when you change lane or you merge, but not when you turn at an intersection with only a direction allowed (you may or may not signal).


That's a bad rule actually. Drivers or pedestrians might not see the sign that forces you to turn and therefore don't know that you are turning.


----------



## Road_UK

Wilhem275 said:


> Probably half of EU roundabouts are here :lol:
> 
> What I don't understand is the advantage of signalling you're staying in. The fact itself that you are already in is enough to give way to you; unless you signal otherwise (right), in which case traffic flow can get in faster.


People don't always indicate when exiting roundabouts. You never quite know where you stand. Indicating left doing 3-quarters gives an extra security, and people waiting to enter will be well prepared. Like I said before, this system actually works in countries where it's common.


----------



## italystf

KIWIKAAS said:


> The same indication principles apply as the example I gave above (for a standard roundabout without traffic lights and yielding from the entry points. In the case a standard 4 point roundabout....which is about 90% of roundabouts). At a 5 or more point roundabout where I would be exiting at, lets say the 4th point, then I would indicate as per the example for going left (left indicator and then right at the exit).
> Are you familiar with roundabouts?


When you are circling around a roundabout you're keeping your road so no need to signaling. When you exit a roundabout you change road so you need to signal. It's like signaling left at every motorway exit to signal that you don't exit there.


----------



## Wilhem275

Road_UK said:


> Indicating left doing 3-quarters gives an extra security


...and the day you forget to do so*, they'll think you're going straight and crash into you 

*or the blinkers' command auto-return triggers at the wrong time, which is not uncommon in roundabouts.


I really understand your point, but the right solution is torture and death penalty for those antisocial elements who don't indicate when going out...


----------



## ufonut

DK46 in Poland


----------



## KIWIKAAS

italystf said:


> When you are circling around a roundabout you're keeping your road so no need to signaling. When you exit a roundabout you change road so you need to signal. It's like signaling left at every motorway exit to signal that you don't exit there.


I understand your argument but in terms of practicle, day to day use, signaling works on most roundabouts. 
Of course you have those huge roundabouts in southern Europe where you only indicate upon exiting. It's the difference between a standard roundabout, which is basically just a round intersection or a large roundabout which is a street circuit in itsself.


----------



## FoSsiL-mk

Skopje/Скопје;106897343 said:


>


That's a turbo-roundabout... And, this is a tutorial for it, the same from the photo


----------



## FoSsiL-mk

double


----------



## Glodenox

Wilhem275 said:


> ...and the day you forget to do so*, they'll think you're going straight and crash into you
> 
> *or the blinkers' command auto-return triggers at the wrong time, which is not uncommon in roundabouts.


No, at that point they'd be in doubt of what you are going to do and will stop at the intersection (or at least slow down enough to stop if needed). You're forgetting that the system also requires people to use the right indicator to say they're exiting the roundabout. Nobody here has said anything about never using any indicators when going "straight" around a roundabout (if someone did mean to say that, that person has no clue about using roundabouts).

Admittedly, using the left indicator while on the roundabout is redundant, but it does act as a confirmation that the person *is* going to drive further on the roundabout. I disapprove of putting on the left indicator when you're not yet on the roundabout though, that just looks as if you're going to use the roundabout in the wrong direction.


----------



## Blackraven

I have no problem with these circular-type roads

However, in places with extremely severe traffic congestion and badly-disciplined drivers, these circular roads can be a nightmare:


----------



## Iregua

FoSsiL-mk said:


> That's a turbo-roundabout... And, this is a tutorial for it, the same from the photo


The problem with turbo-roundabouts is that sometimes it's difficult to make a U-turn:










What should be done? Green or blue?


----------



## Wilhem275

None of them, I'd say. In that design, U-turn is simply not allowed 

If absolutely needed, I'd choose green, to be sure I have no one on my left.


And that would be the only time I'd use the left indicator in the middle of a roundabout :troll:


----------



## FoSsiL-mk

they aren't supposed to allow a U-turn, and you shouldn't do it, it would be against the rules... however, this one actually allows U-turns in 2 of 3 streets...

But, a standard turbo-roundabout isn't supposed to allow U-turns...


----------



## FoSsiL-mk

ufonut said:


>


This one is also a turbo, a standard turbo... just to notice it...


----------



## keokiracer

FoSsiL-mk said:


> That's a turbo-roundabout... And, this is a tutorial for it, the same from the photo


Where is that roundabout located?
Gmaps link please?

And I realize that it might not be visible on GMaps itself yet.


----------



## Verso

FoSsiL-mk said:


> they aren't supposed to allow a U-turn, and you shouldn't do it, it would be against the rules...


That's true, although I don't see why not.


----------



## keokiracer

Verso said:


> That's true, although I don't see why not.


Simple: because that would make the turboroundabout in current form impossible.


----------



## FoSsiL-mk

keokiracer said:


> Where is that roundabout located?
> Gmaps link please?
> 
> And I realize that it might not be visible on GMaps itself yet.


Here --> http://goo.gl/TKrRbY


----------



## Iregua

FoSsiL-mk said:


> they aren't supposed to allow a U-turn, and you shouldn't do it, it would be against the rules... however, this one actually allows U-turns in 2 of 3 streets...
> 
> But, a standard turbo-roundabout isn't supposed to allow U-turns...


Actually you can make a U-turn without violating any rule here, but only if you enter the roundabout from the "top" or the "bottom" side of the picture, which is supposed to be the main street.


----------



## FoSsiL-mk

^^ Well, yeah... true... although their priority is not to "care" about U-turn... their purpose of existence is to make the traffic flow faster and more (pre-) organized, choosing your lane (and then direction of movement) before you enter the roundabout...

But any other U-turn would be "against the rules"...


----------



## Verso

keokiracer said:


> Simple: because that would make the turboroundabout in current form impossible.


No, I meant why you mustn't turn left.


----------



## bongo-anders

How to avoid a pylon, just build a roundabout around it. :lol:

This is the street Nordhøj in Køge, Denmark.


----------



## FoSsiL-mk

^^ That's clever... It's a new roundabout, right? Cause I can't find it on Google Maps/Earth...


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> I never saw a TR in real life


Go to Koper, it's the world capital of turbo roundabouts outside Netherlands. :lol:


----------



## Penn's Woods

Among the pieces of information I picked up at the Quebec travel information center* after I crossed the border: a pamphlet put out by the provincial government on how to drive at roundabouts.

*or "centre," even in English Canadian usage


----------



## Zagor666

Brazil, a picture from the photography forum here at skyscrapercity


----------



## OmI92

Roundabout in Lahore, Pakistan


----------



## bogdymol




----------



## Paddington

I think the American 4 way stop that's out in the rural areas and outer suburbs is quite dangerous. In fact, that's one of the biggest points I remember being made in Driver's Ed. Roundabouts (with one lane only) are a good replacement.

But at bigger, more urban intersections, I think traffic lights are better than roundabouts. Once there's more than one lane involved, there's much higher chance for collisions on roundabouts.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Roundabouts are hard to fit into existing urbanized areas because they require more space than a 4-way stop. 

4-way stops are inefficient because you need to stop at every intersection regardless of traffic, but if you turn it into a priority road people will just zoom across the intersection, which is dangerous. 

I don't recall ever seeing a 4-way stop in Europe, do they exist over here? It's mostly intersections with priority to the right.


----------



## keokiracer

Paddington said:


> But at bigger, more urban intersections, I think traffic lights are better than roundabouts. Once there's more than one lane involved, there's much higher chance for collisions on roundabouts.


There are more accidents at roundabouts, but those accidents are not as severe as those on traffic light intersections. Because the roundabout makes you slow down. It's fairly easily possible to drive over lots of traffic light controlled intersections at 160 km/h (100 mph) but you simply can't do that at a roundabout. Unless you want to be catapulted into the air...


----------



## riiga

ChrisZwolle said:


> I don't recall ever seeing a 4-way stop in Europe, do they exist over here? It's mostly intersections with priority to the right.


They are very rare, but I saw a thread about them over at a Swedish forum. I'll see if I can find a few examples from there.

EDIT: Swedish examples. 
http://goo.gl/maps/vAH98
http://goo.gl/maps/0i0aI
http://goo.gl/maps/00Le9
http://goo.gl/maps/EF6QY
http://goo.gl/maps/gNrZt
http://goo.gl/maps/9v88c
http://goo.gl/maps/MnUmO
http://goo.gl/maps/nN6bJ


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> I don't recall ever seeing a 4-way stop in Europe, do they exist over here? It's mostly intersections with priority to the right.


Priority to the right applies in 4-way stops as well. I've seen a few such intersections in Slovenia, but I don't remember where.


----------



## VITORIA MAN

a "turbo" one , from spain


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's a tight location for a turbo roundabout. Can a truck make a left turn there?


----------



## Road_UK

ChrisZwolle said:


> Roundabouts are hard to fit into existing urbanized areas because they require more space than a 4-way stop.
> .


Not necessarily. 

This is a mini roundabout. They are as common as anything else in the UK. You can of course drive over them, often you do not have a choice. But it clearly signals who has priority, and in these manners it works as a proper roundabout. I think it's well thought through.


----------



## Wilhem275

I consider that a 4-way stop, just with reversed priority (which I actually prefer!).

Those things would not need to be classifed as roundabouts, if only we could move from the concept of "give way to who comes from your right (left for UK)", which is often inefficient and unsafe.


----------



## Road_UK

Well, in the UK they are classed as roundabouts. In fact they are roundabouts, and it works better than four way stops or priority from the right (UK left) as you always slow down before roundabouts anyway. Believe me, this system works and I'm surprised they aren't any outside the UK and Ireland.


----------



## Road_UK

I also want to add that obviously it is very important that you indicate when going left or right at these mini roundabouts. Even more important than indicating when exiting, which becomes pretty pointless on a roundabout that size, unless you go one quarter. Going straight ahead would require no indicating and going 3 quarters right (uk) means indicator right.


----------



## Wilhem275

I agree on that and I believe it works fine.

What happens if two vehicles are coming from opposite roads, and both have to turn 3/4? They turn around the center (as required by roundabouts) or skip each other on their left side (as in common intersections)? Or maybe one of them will just wait.

Basically I'd keep the thing just the way it works, without the signage of roundabouts (and keeping of course the yield signs), you still would have to slow down (due to yield signs + poor visibility).
My point is not to criticize this design, it's just part of a general theory I have about giving way to the right (UK left*). If we had that rule changed, this sort of tiny interserctions would still work the way they do, without calling them roundabouts.



* We must find a general way to describe it. Let's say today's rule is "Give way to the passenger side"  and I'd like it changed to "Give way to the driver's side".


----------



## Road_UK

These two vehicles will have to work it out amongst themselves. In good British tradition they'll probably be standing there forever to give way to each other. 

In Britain there's no such thing as priority from the left. If there are no roundabouts or traffic lights, there'll be signs telling you to give way. Traffic on major roads always has priority. Again, I find the British system safer and easier.


----------



## Verso

Don't you give way to the right in the UK? I think that's the case in Australia.


----------



## Road_UK

Verso said:


> Don't you give way to the right in the UK? I think that's the case in Australia.


Only on roundabouts. If the European system was being followed we'd have to give way to the left, but that's not the case.


----------



## keokiracer

Verso said:


> Don't you give way to the right in the UK?


In the UK every single intersection has a prioritized road. So the other road just yields to that road. So there is no need for a yielding to the right/left law


----------



## Verso

> Some countries use the priority to the right rule, despite driving on the left. Australia uses the priority to the right rule solely on four-way intersections where the roads all have equal priority, but not for T-intersections.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priority_to_the_right#Usage


----------



## VITORIA MAN




----------



## bogdymol

^^ That's cool. Where is it?


----------



## VITORIA MAN

theses houses... it must be somewhere in france ...i found it !!!!
in nantes 
http://goo.gl/maps/uEHZF


----------



## DanielFigFoz

Road_UK said:


> These two vehicles will have to work it out amongst themselves. In good British tradition they'll probably be standing there forever to give way to each other.


:lol:

That always happens! You know that sort of open palm but pointing at the same time (or flashing the lights). Then eventually someone goes with an open palm pointing upwards to thank the other person. (Also in a normal junction, when someone gives up their priority, the person pulling out does the open palm thing, then once in front of the other car puts the hazard lights on for a couple of goes).


----------



## MattiG

ChrisZwolle said:


> I don't recall ever seeing a 4-way stop in Europe, do they exist over here?


The traffic planners in the city of Pori managed to invent a four-way yield, but that was found to be violating the legislation in Finland. Four-way stops are not allowed either. The equal-priority crossings are illegal on the roads having the speed limit of more than 40 km/h unless they are marked by the traffic sign


----------



## VITORIA MAN

madrid's suburb
source , el pais


----------



## RV

VITORIA MAN said:


> madrid's suburb
> source , el pais


Why do they build 2x4 or even 2x5-streets for really marginal traffic levels?


----------



## Verso

Have you noticed a queue in the roundabout?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A queue as in parking?


----------



## Verso

Is that legal?


----------



## DanielFigFoz

Well in a roundabout of that size I'd imagine so, they're not blocking anything.


----------



## Carretero

Here you have the location of that roundabout:
https://www.google.es/maps?ll=40.488378,-3.656023&spn=0.009416,0.021136&t=h&z=16

Both avenues that converge in that roundabout have relatively high traffic levels (they are not only local roads, but collectors for medium-distance traffic), so it works quite well. Taking into account that the roundabout has actually three lanes because of the parked cars, drivers use all of them depending on their destiny, and almost always one can enter it without stopping to give way.

But I must say that this type of urban planning is definitely not good for pedestrians. And the problem with parked cars is that urban planners designed a lot of 8-lane streets without parking spaces, so the neighbours used the outer ones to park. Eventually, Madrid Council decided to modify the markings and now each carriageway has 3 lanes and 1 parking lane.

Fun fact: This roundabout is, with an inner diameter of 180m, probably the largest urban one in Spain (not considering highway interchanges), and also is where the ugliest building in Madrid is located :crazy:
https://www.google.es/maps?ll=40.48...NmblapzpGjPBNosp5pymg&cbp=12,151.54,,0,-13.61


----------



## mapman:cz

Guys, I'm searching for locations (pictures) of roundabouts that enable oversize load to pass through the island using the oposite direction on/off ramps such as this one:
https://goo.gl/maps/xnecS 

If you know this type somewhere else, please share a link to GM. I'd be very grateful!


----------



## keokiracer

mapman:cz said:


> If you know this type somewhere else, please share a link to GM. I'd be very grateful!


Antwerp (B): http://goo.gl/maps/kWCE3
Moerdijk (NL): http://goo.gl/maps/A04LF
Vlissingen (NL): http://goo.gl/maps/vrRvM


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Itinéraire à Grand Gabarit


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A six-leg roundabout south of Nieuw-Vennep, Netherlands. It's built on top of a canal crossing.


----------



## Tom 958

^^ That is so perfectly Dutch. And, simplified, it would make a pretty good design for a flag if the Dutch ever get bored with the one they have now. :lol:


----------



## DanielFigFoz

keokiracer said:


> In the UK every single intersection has a prioritized road. So the other road just yields to that road. So there is no need for a yielding to the right/left law


I wouldn't say every single one, there are times where small country lanes meet and there aren't any signs or road marks but meeting someone there isn't very likely, if people meet they just figure it out, people tend to let people out when they don't have to anyway.


----------



## ElviS77

Road_UK said:


> Well, in the UK they are classed as roundabouts. In fact they are roundabouts, and it works better than four way stops or priority from the right (UK left) as you always slow down before roundabouts anyway. Believe me, this system works and I'm surprised they aren't any outside the UK and Ireland.


They most certainly do. I really like them, and there are a few over here in Norway as well, where they have replaced four-way priority-from-the-right intersections. Many 80 km/h rural roads aren't yellow-diamond priority roads and roundabouts are quite clearly safer than x-junctions. It has been proposed to make all rural roads priority roads, but it hasn't happened yet. In the mean time, mini roundabouts are a quick and sensible fix.


----------



## Blackraven

Roundabouts are great when there are not that many cars

However, if there's just too much and too many vehicles inside-and-out, then these things become 'circles of hell' (like this one in Indonesia)


----------



## Nexis




----------



## overdrive1979

RV said:


> Why do they build 2x4 or even 2x5-streets for really marginal traffic levels?


They did this one because it's the main roundabout to a large new residential quarter located north of Madrid, as they estimated back in 2007 that the population will reach up to 40.000 inhabitants, but then the Spaniard economic collapse came in 2008, which mean that it nowadays still go throug the motion so there will spend so many years to get the whole quarter full so far.

Anyway, I never have seen another one like this in Spain.


----------



## xrtn2

In Brazil


----------



## Muttie

Tangier, Morocco.






I know, its terrible.


----------



## xrtn2

^^ :nuts:


----------



## RV

Does any one know how many lanes has the World's widest lane-marked roundabout?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This one in Quezon City, Philippines has 10 marked lanes.


----------



## Blackraven

ChrisZwolle said:


> This one in Quezon City, Philippines has 10 marked lanes.


I've driven here more than thrice now (QMC Eliptical Road) and I love the fact that it has so many lanes.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ how does it even work? Like... what do you do in the inner lanes ?


----------



## RV

In Spain bigger cities tend to have even 6-7 lanes, in Madrid I think it is even more with 8+8-laned avenues in the Southern part of the Center, for example.


----------



## Blackraven

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ how does it even work? Like... what do you do in the inner lanes ?


AFAIK, the theory and mode of operation here in the Quezon City Elliptical Road is that at least 3 lanes are inner lanes (e.g. lanes closest to the inner circle aka Quezon City Memorial Park), the other 4 lanes are exit lanes if you want to exit the circle and 1 lane is said to be allocated for bicycles, motorbikes, tricycles and pedicabs (aka 'padyak' in the local language).

Of course, here in the Philippines, theory is vastly different from execution as most drivers will just travel in any lane and do a free-for-all.

Also, the concept of 'right-of-way' here in this country = I AM ALWAYS RIGHT!!!

:nuts::lol:


----------



## Triple C

ChrisZwolle said:


> A six-leg roundabout south of Nieuw-Vennep, Netherlands. It's built on top of a canal crossing.


Similar example in Antalya: https://harita.yandex.com.tr/-/CVcTjKOd


----------



## tradephoric

This Ann Arbor, Michigan roundabout had the most crashes of any intersection in the entire state of Michigan for 2014 (170 crashes).









https://www.google.com/maps/@42.22945,-83.73871,17z/data=!3m1!1e3


----------



## MattiG

tradephoric said:


> This Ann Arbor, Michigan roundabout had the most crashes of any intersection in the entire state of Michigan for 2014 (170 crashes).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/maps/@42.22945,-83.73871,17z/data=!3m1!1e3


Interesting enough, the Transportation Research Institute of the University of Michigan in *Ann Arbor* is widely known for its work on the area of traffic safety.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A couple of features makes this Ann Arbor roundabout different from the Dutch ones. 

First of all, it is designed in a way that makes speeding across the roundabout easy. Some through routes can probably driven in excess of 30 or even maybe 40 miles an hour. Also, unregulated pedestrian crossings are generally not recommended at high-speed arterials with 2 or more lanes in each direction. In addition, it's a multilane roundabout. These cause less predictable behavior than on turbo roundabouts (i.e. people changing lanes) and the capacity is used less efficiently (people going through or left only taking the outer lane).


----------



## Verso

Today a baloon had to make an emergency landing in the middle of the largest Slovenian roundabout (Tomačevo in Ljubljana).  There's also an expressway underneath it.


















http://www.24ur.com/novice/slovenija/foto-balon-sredi-rondoja-tomacevo-je-slo-za-zasilni-pristanek.html


----------



## ReginaWills

*Liberty Roundabout Lahore, Pakistan*


----------



## ReginaWills

Liberty Roundabout Lahore


----------



## VITORIA MAN

Insane Roundabout by S.A.L., en Flickr
Swindon Magic Roundabout by JJ Willow, en Flickr
Magic Roundabout by terry joyce, en Flickr


----------



## ReginaWills

*Lalik Chowk Roundabout, Lahore*


----------



## xrtn2

Brazil











Minha Casa Minha Vida em Catanduva (SP) by Blog do Planalto, no Flickr


----------



## RV

I still don't understand; what is the idea of those British double-roundabouts? Seems like something mathematically quite difficult and like a traffic-light-hell. Why not to built a large single-carriageway roundabout or an interchange? It can't cost much more and certainly doesn't take so much space properly done.


----------



## verreme

xrtn2 said:


> Brazil
> 
> 
> 
> Minha Casa Minha Vida em Catanduva (SP) by Blog do Planalto, no Flickr


This looks straight out of a 1960s dystopian sci-fi movie. My God.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ I know, so much road, so much houses and no parking anywhere!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

None of these houses seem to have any parking...

The Minha Casa Minha Vida programme consists of social housing.

_Hasty development, the architect critiques, leads to problems with the new units, that are “almost always of poor quality, on cheap land to increase construction profits, apartments less than 42 square meters, far from centers of commerce and without proper transportation.”_

http://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/front-page/minha-casa-minha-vida-development/#


----------



## VITORIA MAN

here's the parking
Minha Casa Minha Vida em Catanduva (SP) by Blog do Planalto, en Flickr


----------



## italystf

ChrisZwolle said:


> _Hasty development, the architect critiques, leads to problems with the new units, that are “almost always of poor quality, on cheap land to increase construction profits, apartments less than 42 square meters, far from centers of commerce and without proper transportation.”_http://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/front-page/minha-casa-minha-vida-development/#


This sentence can easily be the description of the "reconstruction" of L'Aquila after the 2009 earthquake. hno:


----------



## MattiG

RV said:


> I still don't understand; what is the idea of those British double-roundabouts? Seems like something mathematically quite difficult and like a traffic-light-hell. Why not to built a large single-carriageway roundabout or an interchange? It can't cost much more and certainly doesn't take so much space properly done.


Think positive. The inner circle runs anticlockwise, like the roundabouts in the countries of the right-hand side traffic. Something the people on the Fog Islands always dream about.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Valence, France


----------



## Autobahn-mann

^^Nightmare!


----------



## RV

^^ Still didn't get an answer - why do they built giant roundabouts in Britain when you can get an interchange with the same money and space?

Of course roundabouts are much more efficient than normal at-level crossings at fairly low traffic-density-areas - but a double roundabout doesn't seem like it is built for low traffic levels.

About that area in Brazil - I think they've got nothing to park...


----------



## MattiG

RV said:


> ^^ Still didn't get an answer - why do they built giant roundabouts in Britain when you can get an interchange with the same money and space?
> 
> Of course roundabouts are much more efficient than normal at-level crossings at fairly low traffic-density-areas - but a double roundabout doesn't seem like it is built for low traffic levels.


It is good to recognize that the UK is the largest outdoor museum in the Europe, and populated by zillions on nimbys. It is hard to reach a consensus to build anything involving a bridge, especially in built-up areas. Therefore, the roundabout is the basic element outside the motorways. If the capacity of a traditional roundabout is exhausted, more creative ideas are welcome.

The basic idea of those magic roundabouts is simple: the inner ring provides with a fast access to the exits at the right-hand size without driving the whole roundabout, thus improving the throughput. However, there is some gap between the theory and the real word: Quite many people say the structure is terrifying. There are not many such roundabouts built.


----------



## Mirror's Edge

*Roundabout at Lund - Scania, on Swedens oldest freeway.*








From here


----------



## MattiG

Mirror's Edge said:


> *Roundabout at Lund - Scania, on Swedens oldest freeway.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From here


This is rather a typical construction in the UK, and less frequently seen in the continental Europe.


----------



## Mirror's Edge

^^Well makes sense, this is not continental Europe and they are very common in Scania and I think the rest of Sweden.

Or highway is elevated with the same result, like this new overpass.









Live cam


----------



## MattiG

Mirror's Edge said:


> ^^Well makes sense, this is not continental Europe and they are very common in Scania and I think the rest of Sweden.
> 
> Or highway is elevated with the same result, like this new overpass.


In my book of geography, even if Scandinavia is a peninsula, it still is part of the continent of Eurasia... 

The roundabout interchange has some drawbacks. If the secondary road is elevated, two curved bridges are required. If the primary road is elevated, and it is a motorway, typically there is a need for two short bridges or four long ones.

If the throughput of the secondary road is not an issue, the dogbone interchange is topologically equivalent, and requires one bridge only.

While looking at the new Spillepengen interchange, I am somewhat concerned about the short weaving areas. The diameter of the ring is rather large thus favoring high driving speeds. The length of the three-line weaving area at the west sector is 60 meters only. 

Some of the roundabout interchanges in Sweden are badly designed. A few weeks ago, I drove on the exit 111 on E4 (Linköping West) from the west and turned to the north, and felt somewhat uncomfortable.










The area of the interchange is huge, about 60 hectares. It is more than six times more than the area of the newest dogbone interchanges of the new E18 section in Finland. Still, the curvature of the ring may lead to surprises.

The radius of the exit ramp from the west is about 250 meters. No problem with that. But the ramp joins a very short weaving area: The exit ramp leads out of the ring, and those ones turning to the north must suddenly change two lanes to the left within 100 meters only.










However, that is not the last surprise. The left curve is far too tight, its radius is 60 meters only. After surviving that, you are on the lane leading back to the E4. In order to exit the ring to 34 Motala, another lane change is needed, this time to the right.

Compared to that, one of the few such interchanges in Finland (roads 3/12 and 11, Nokia) is more civilized:


----------



## Kanadzie

MattiG said:


> It is good to recognize that the UK is the largest outdoor museum in the Europe, and populated by zillions on nimbys. It is hard to reach a consensus to build anything involving a bridge, especially in built-up areas. Therefore, the roundabout is the basic element outside the motorways. If the capacity of a traditional roundabout is exhausted, more creative ideas are welcome.
> 
> The basic idea of those magic roundabouts is simple: the inner ring provides with a fast access to the exits at the right-hand size without driving the whole roundabout, thus improving the throughput. However, there is some gap between the theory and the real word: Quite many people say the structure is terrifying. There are not many such roundabouts built.


I'm not sure an interchange would work well for these "magic roundabouts". There seems to be like five or seven different roads coming into the area, with no clear through-route. Typical interchange would only be four roads with at least one clear through route. To handle seven roads you'd have maybe interchange and extra roundabouts :nuts:

But I really like the magic roundabout idea for its insane Britishness, it's like drinking gin or having bad teeth.


----------



## RV

^^In Finland roundabouts have worked quite well where needed. Everybody follow the key rule: the one already on the roundabout goes first.

Finland is also a country with millions of nimbys complaining about everything involving a bridge etc, and then you got the Greens, which are the second party in Helsinki and which asses the Right and the Left competitively lick. It is not even near as bad as the UK though, excluding the Greens (no other country in Europe has such problem, except Finland, maybe Germany in some areas and now Spain).


----------



## Verso

keokiracer said:


> No it's not, it's just a regular 2-lane roundabout


The one in scotdaliney's link is a turbo roundabout.


----------



## Spookvlieger

N80 X E313- all roundabout removed. Traffic jams reduced a lot here. There is one lane extra and more turning lanes. 2 lane roundabout clogged everything. Obviously no place for a propper turbo roundabout. I don't think there is any turbo at all in Belgium. We're still stuck in the 80ties!


----------



## keokiracer

Verso said:


> The one in scotdaliney's link is a turbo roundabout.


Nope, as a turboroundabout requires seperated lanes on the roundabout.


----------



## Verso

keokiracer said:


> Nope, as a turboroundabout requires seperated lanes on the roundabout.


I think it's a hybrid. You have to change lanes to stay and keep driving in the roundabout. This one is similar (and even less turbo):


> The turbo roundabout was formally developed in 1996 in the Netherlands by Lambertus Fortuijn, a researcher from the Delft University of Technology.[55] Similar roundabouts, with spiralling lane markings, have been used for many years in the UK e.g. the A176/A127 (eastbound) at Basildon, Essex (51.561399°N 0.452934°E).


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout#Turbo_roundabouts


----------



## keokiracer

The point of the turboroundabout is that you don't have to/can't change lanes on the roundabout. I think it's more likely that it's regular-multilane-based than turboroundabout-based.


----------



## Verso

keokiracer said:


> The point of the turboroundabout is that you don't have to/can't change lanes on the roundabout. I think it's more likely that it's regular-multilane-based than turboroundabout-based.


You don't have to change lanes in that roundabout. As for "can't": yes, you can easily change lanes in this roundabout, but theoretically you can keep driving in every (turbo) roundabout. Many turbo roundabouts don't even have physically separated lanes, just lines drawn between them.


----------



## keokiracer

Verso said:


> Many turbo roundabouts don't even have physically separated lanes, just lines drawn between them.


Then it's not an official roudabout but a 'copycat' version. The official turboroundabouts need dividers.

I feel like we're talking about 2 different things here, is there another type of turboroundabout besides the 'Dutch turboroundabout'? Cause the big English ones are just big roundabouts. We in NL for example don't call the Joure interchange a turboroundabout.


----------



## Verso

keokiracer said:


> Then it's not an official roudabout but a 'copycat' version.


Or a pre-turboroundabout. 



keokiracer said:


> I feel like we're talking about 2 different things here, is there another type of turboroundabout besides the 'Dutch turboroundabout'? Cause the big English ones are just big roundabouts. We in NL for example don't call the Joure interchange a turboroundabout.


I don't know, but this is what it says in Wikipedia:


> Turbo roundabouts in continental Europe were initially built with raised lane separators. Newer implementations follow UK practice with only lane markings increase efficiency (regarding safety, speed and capacity) by reducing the safety risk and enabling maintenance vehicles such as snow ploughs.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout#Turbo_roundabouts


----------



## scotdaliney

Verso said:


> Or a pre-turboroundabout.
> 
> I don't know, but this is what it says in Wikipedia:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout#Turbo_roundabouts


There is a distinction between a standard multi-lane roundabout. Where either the lanes are predefined all the way round. No lane changing needed.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/J...f0b535df47a0!8m2!3d-31.745!4d115.766111?hl=en

Then multi-lane roundabouts where to exit, you first have to change lanes from the inside lane.









Then the spiral marked multi-lane. Where the marking natuary take you to the outside lane. roundabout.https://www.google.com/maps/place/R...0x5cc3928de2c3bebb!8m2!3d52.30897!4d-1.940936


----------



## Verso

scotdaliney said:


> There is a distinction between a standard multi-lane roundabout. Where either the lanes are predefined all the way round. No lane changing needed.
> https://www.google.com/maps/place/J...f0b535df47a0!8m2!3d-31.745!4d115.766111?hl=en


This is a dangerous roundabout.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Those seem like 'race-through' roundabouts. Perhaps efficient to handle large traffic volumes, but not that much safer than an (un)signalized intersection.


----------



## scotdaliney

Verso said:


> This is a dangerous roundabout.


It's a very standard Australian roundabout. There are thousands in that section of the city alone. Australia tends to be very uniform in its road building. Almost every multi-lane roundabout is identical to this.


----------



## Verso

^^ I remember them mostly with full lines drawn, so that you weren't allowed to keep driving in the outer lane, you had to exit.


----------



## scotdaliney

Verso said:


> ^^ I remember them mostly with full lines drawn, so that you weren't allowed to keep driving in the outer lane, you had to exit.


You can't drive around the outside lane. If you look at the arrows the outside lane can only turn left or go straight.


----------



## KIWIKAAS

scotdaliney said:


> It's a very standard Australian roundabout. There are thousands in that section of the city alone. Australia tends to be very uniform in its road building. Almost every multi-lane roundabout is identical to this.


^^ I know that roundabout. It is indeed dangerous and should be replaced with traffic lights or reconfigured to a turbo - roundabout.
Traffic on the roundabout travels way too fast and sometimes you can be waiting for ages to get on. Not a good design, and indeed way too common in Australia.


----------



## Verso

scotdaliney said:


> You can't drive around the outside lane. If you look at the arrows the outside lane can only turn left or go straight.


Yeah, if you look at arrows, you're right, but lines aren't so clear (although they suggest leaving the roundabout). For example, in Slovenia such arrows are just a recommendation (edit: I might be wrong), but you may still drive around on the outside lane (unless there's a full line drawn). I guess Australians know how to drive in this roundabout, but foreigners may be confused.


----------



## poshbakerloo

Roundabouts only really work at junctions where there is a lot of turning traffic. We have loads of roundabouts in England...and I generally like them, but the worst ones are very small with a straight line dominant flow which makes turning onto them very hard an because they are small there isn't much space to pull out etc.

This is my least favorite roundabout! https://www.google.com/maps/@53.259359,-2.1616586,149m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en
*Very busy, very small and an awkward shape!*


----------



## g.spinoza

It's not very clear to me why they have 3 arrows (left, straight and right) there. In a roundabout there are only 2 directions (straight and right).


----------



## Verso

^ Because some people like driving in roundabouts in wrong direction (witnessed by my sister today :lol.


----------



## TrojaA

g.spinoza said:


> It's not very clear to me why they have 3 arrows (left, straight and right) there. In a roundabout there are only 2 directions (straight and right).


If you want to take the third exit of that roundabout, you take take the lane with where the arrow is two the right.
So the arrows indicating how you would turn at a normal intersection, that's why there is a "wrong directing" arrow.


----------



## bgdimitrov

Since the render image of the roundabout seems to have sparked a lot of discussion, I will post another image (daytime) of how it actually turned out. The roundabout is relatively busy, especially at rush hour. The majority of the public transport of the city passes through the roundabout as well. What is now much better than before is that there is no longer the need for drivers to look out for pedestrians. Prior to this it was common for jams to occur due to pedestrians crossing and vehicles having to wait inside the roundabout.


----------



## Wilhem275

*Show me your aprons!*

In recent years many Italian cities built a sh!tload of roundabouts, especially in urban areas, mostly to replace traffic lights (which IMHO were often just poorly timed, but that's another story).

As everybody knows, inside Italian cities space is often a problem, so many of these new roundabouts were designed with a very small diameter. Now, the problem that comes with small diameters is that the tail of long vehicles will need a lot of extra space to cut the curve.
What comes with this, is that the apron (the part of inner ring for truck manoeuvres) is unusually wide compared to the proper drivable area.
But this would not be a big deal, if properly realized.

The problem is that Italian cities always had the bad habit of not actually drawing intersections: just dump a field of tarmac, put a stop sign somewhere, and job done. Cities don't have the culture of designing precise guidance thorugh intersections.
The same applies to roundabouts: there is no distinction between the apron and the actual lane, just a load of tarmac.
The obvious result, in a place where the average driver is constantly looking for the tightest apex, is that cars will drive using a much smaller circle, and drivers proceeding straight will often just cut through it.

This is an example of how a properly designed apron completely disappeared in the real building:










As you can see, a 24 m roundabout is then used as a mere 16 m one, while all the surrounding elements were designed for a different setup. A car can clearly cut all corners and floor it through the whole thing.

Almost all Italian roundabouts show the same issue. And when the apron is present, it's often vastly undersized or marked so poorly that all cars will drive at speed over it.

I want to propose changes to this situation. And since my fellow drivers will drive over their own mothers if there isn't a tall wall surrounding them*, aprons need to be as much as undrivable as they can be.

So, please *show me your examples of the most violent, badass, cars-destroying aprons* you know of 
I want to see how tall and aggressive these structures can be before ruining or rolling over trucks and buses 



*seriously: you can mark and draw and signal the hell you want, but if they can physically put wheels over something, they will drive through it. You must guide them like trains.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ is it problem though?
I mean, is there dead people?


----------



## italystf

Deadly accidents are rare on roundabouts, due to generally low speeds. However, larger roundabouts are generally safer than smaller ones, that's why they try to make them big where there's enough room.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

^^ Your sentence contradicts itself. If low speeds are the key to safety then smaller roundabouts should be safer than bigger ones...


----------



## keokiracer

^^ No, because if they're really small they're basically a dot in the middle of the intersection you don't have to slow down for, if they're bigger you _have_ to make a turn so you have to slow down.


----------



## Wilhem275

Rebasepoiss said:


> ^^ Your sentence contradicts itself. If low speeds are the key to safety then smaller roundabouts should be safer than bigger ones...


It should be clarified as "a_ctually_ larger roundabouts" are safer. A wide but narrow ring means sharp corners with the feeding roads, forcing to slow down.
If the roundabout is wide but drivable in the middle like a small one, it carries the defects of the small one (no real obstacle when going straight) and of wide lanes (poor feeling of speed).

Here some good examples:





Most Dutch roundabouts have a large diameter, but traffic is not allowed to cut through the ring, so they work safely.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Many Dutch roundabouts have the same dimensions on a 30 or 50 km/h urban street as on an 80 km/h provincial road. In my opinion they should allow a higher design speed (more driving comfort) on rural roundabouts with no bicycle paths present. 

Some provincial roads are riddled with roundabouts and semi trucks in particular often need up to a kilometer to regain speed. Gelderland province in particular has way too many roundabouts on provincial roads in areas with no motorways or other high-speed roads.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

Wilhem275 said:


> It should be clarified as "a_ctually_ larger roundabouts" are safer. A wide but narrow ring means sharp corners with the feeding roads, forcing to slow down.
> If the roundabout is wide but drivable in the middle like a small one, it carries the defects of the small one (no real obstacle when going straight) and of wide lanes (poor feeling of speed).
> 
> Most Dutch roundabouts have a large diameter, but traffic is not allowed to cut through the ring, so they work safely.


OK, I see what you mean 

That being said, you can make a small roundabout that forces drivers to slow down as well. One example. In this case you can drive over the middle but you really don't want to. The exit speed is theoretically lower than entry speed (ideally it should be the other way round) but the roundabout is so small that you have to brake before entering it anyway.

Edit: spelling.


----------



## g.spinoza

Rebasepoiss said:


> OK, I see what you mean
> 
> That being said, you can make a small roundabout that forces drivers to slow down as well. One example. In this case you can drive over the middle but you really don't want to. In this case the exit speed is theoretically lower than entry speed (ideally it should be the other way round) but the roundabout is so small that you have to break before entering it anyway.


I can assure you that, in Italy, that roundabout would be treated by the vast majority of drivers as "non-existent".


----------



## Verso

Most people drive around, but I just drive over this.


----------



## Wilhem275

Rebasepoiss said:


> That being said, you can make a small roundabout that forces drivers to slow down as well. One example. In this case you can drive over the middle but you really don't want to.


Yep, that is the concept, but as Spinoza said: an apron that high is not not even perceived by Italian drivers.
I'm still looking for something much, much more badass  something that under 15 km/h gives high discomfort, and over 15 will easily ruin a car.

Basically, I need the equivalent of a car trap:

































The tricky part is that it must work on a tight curve. All these work well because the bus will reach them straight and you are sure of the wheels position; in a roundabout there's no sure position.
The matter is to find the taller obstacle that can be overridden sideways by bus and trucks tyres with no damage (at very low speed, which they will have anyway).


----------



## Verso

Wilhem275 said:


> I'm still looking for something much, much more badass  something that under 15 km/h gives high discomfort, and over 15 will easily ruin a car.


Umm, I'm not sure what you're looking for. If you drive over flowers in my example, your car won't like it. :lol:


----------



## Rebasepoiss

^^ Yup, something like that would be a better solution for countries where traffic laws aren't followed that strictly. In Estonia, however, one of the things all road engineers have to think about is: how do you plow snow here?  Car traps like shown above (1, 3, 4) wouldn't work at all for that reason.


----------



## Wilhem275

Yup, I can only imagine dealing with such a quantity of snow...

The traces here tell us that many just drive straight through that thing :lol:



Verso said:


> Umm, I'm not sure what you're looking for. If you drive over flowers in my example, your car won't like it. :lol:


Flowers won't like it either  the problem is that a truck would be damaged as well.
What I need is a compromise.

It's also a visual issue. Take the first example i posted: in a small roundabout, a proper apron is way bigger than the car lane itself. Not only the apron should have an aggressive ring, it should also be filled with a non-regular surface (something that says "Hey, I'm not meant for driving").


----------



## Verso

This one.


----------



## Wilhem275

Now we're serious 
At the moment, it's the main solution I had in mind. The angle of those curbs seems to be the best compromise.
I'd even try a second layer of that, let's say 1 m smaller than the first ring (to scream "Really, don't think about it!").

Yet again, this last example is another case in which the paved area is WAY bigger than what is needed, even for trucks.


----------



## Verso

http://static.primorske.si/foto/lowres/GnWeb/250-krozisce.jpg


----------



## tradephoric

Roundabout Safety:


----------



## Moravian

Roundabout - Austria - Waidhofen an der Thaya ("Waldrapp"):


----------



## Rebasepoiss

Not quite. In the example shown by keber going straight and turning left shares lanes with each other whereas in a _turboplein_ they are completely separated (also physically). This means it's still a traffic-light controlled roundabout but not a _turboplein_ per se. But this is semantics, really, the idea still stands.


----------



## domtoren

*The roundabout which leads to nowhere....*

except to traffic safety 
Utrecht traffic education garden


----------



## Verso

I remember an episode of Mr. Bean when I was small where he drives in a roundabout several times. Back then we didn't have roundabouts in Slovenia yet, so I had no idea what was the point of that circle.


----------



## italystf

Talking about roundabouts in Slovenia, are there turbo-roundabouts only in Koper or all around the country?


----------



## kreden

They’re _everywhere_


----------



## DiogoBaptista

*Praça do Marquês de Pombal e Avenida da Liberdade, Lisboa*
Marquês de Pombal [Marquis of Pombal] Square and Liberdade [Liberty] Avenue, Lisbon












> SOURCE: https://www.instagram.com/p/ByNr5yQh7aI/?utm_source=ig_embed


----------



## Highway89

I've made a GIF animation with aerial views of several roundabouts in La Rioja. Most of them are part of the regional road network. Roundabouts in the national (Fomento) network are usually just grass, sometimes with a few trees.


----------



## gumel

source1, source2


----------



## Highway89

From the Dutch thread: https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=161573012



ChrisZwolle said:


> Roundabouts are increasingly built in concrete as opposed to the traditional asphalt.
> 
> The pavement on roundabouts have much more to endure due to turning trucks and other heavy vehicles, so municipalities and provinces in particular are increasingly using concrete on roundabouts. This was first rolled out on a large scale in the southeast but concrete roundabouts can now be found at many locations, though the vast majority is still asphalt.
> ...





joshsam said:


> Concrete roundabouts in Belgium are the norm. Also intersections are incresingly build in concrete as well as renuwed highway sections and local roads. I wonder if we are returning to a concrete road system.





mgk920 said:


> Concrete is pretty much S.O.P. for most new roundabouts here in the USA, too.
> 
> Mike


The only concrete roundabouts in Spain I know of are these tree in La Jonquera (N-2), a road with a high truck share. They were changed from asphalt to concrete between 2017 and 2018.

https://goo.gl/maps/HZjq4qpebJSjtfEQ8
https://goo.gl/maps/tkktUN5PgV7vgqcK6
https://goo.gl/maps/uoLNYXyye98rEt2e8


----------



## ParadiseRacer32

The Haymarket roundabout in Melbourne, Australia. A mix of busy traffic and trams. Up until 2011 there were no traffic lights


----------



## Penn's Woods

Sigh...:

“Unlike its close traffic pattern relative, the jughandle, a roundabout only has one lane to help traffic cycle safer.”

https://www.fox29.com/news/new-penndot-data-shows-roundabouts-safer-for-intersections


----------



## g.spinoza

A very particular "non-roundabout" in Brescia. People coming from via Corsica (purple arrows), via della Stazione (grey arrows), or via Martiri (up right, no arrows) navigate their way as in a normal roundabout.
People coming from via Fratelli Ugoni (red arrows) can choose: if they need to go towards Corsica or Stazione, they must enter the intersection like a normal roundabout; if they need to go towards via Martiri or via 20 settembre (right) they can either go as in a normal roundabout or go clockwise, "counter-flux".
All of this is regulated by traffic lights, so that in the northern half of the "non-roundabout" fluxes don't get mixed.


----------



## Autobahn-mann

^^ Image not visible


----------



## g.spinoza

Autobahn-mann said:


> ^^ Image not visible


Fixed.


----------



## Kpc21

ParadiseRacer32 said:


> The Haymarket roundabout in Melbourne, Australia. A mix of busy traffic and trams. Up until 2011 there were no traffic lights


Solidarity Roundabout (formerly Warynski Roundabout) in Lodz:










in other words, the most complex roundabout-like intersection in the city. Interestingly, the institution responsible for carrying out driving licence exams is located nearby, so the likelihood of having it on your driving exam is very high. So some exam takers may fear it 

Although actually it's easy to drive, at least if you know what lane to take.

An interesting thing is that if you go from the north to south-west, you go straight forward, but in the opposite direction, you turn left 

But it has traffic lights since 2003.


There is another, even more interesting intersection in the north-eastern outskirts of the city:










Nowosolna Market – the central point of the newest district of Lodz (until 1988, it was a separate village).

It has a very unique shape, however, because of that, driving through it is very wild.

The east-west street is a national road and as such, it has priority over all other streets. All other streets are equal with respect to each other, so you are supposed to give way to the one on your right. 

On this east-west street, there are zebras with traffic lights on both sides of this "market". Those traffic lights, even with no pedestrians, periodically block the traffic on this street, so that the drivers from all other roads are able to enter the intersection. But in the rush hours the traffic is so high that usually only those from the rightmost streets would be able to do it, which ends up with the situation on the intersection just going wild, with drivers entering it without giving way to the ones on their right.

Now, the city wants to end up with its uniqueness and build a roundabout there...

Although what would actually be the most sensible solution is a ring road.


----------



## x-type

I have recently driven this guy in Belgrade.
https://www.google.hr/maps/place/Be...1db8645cf2177ee4!8m2!3d44.786568!4d20.4489216

It was crazy when it (didn't have any) old signalization, and now when it has horizontal signalization it is even more crazy. Trams must watch out not to hit trolleybus. Cars must watch out not to hit trams and trolleybuses. Pedestrians must watch out not to hit cars, trams or trolleybuses. Cars have absolutely crazy orbits, sometimes passing lots of other lanes. Really crazy thing.


----------



## DiogoBaptista

*Praça do Marquês de Pombal e Avenida da Liberdade, Lisboa, Portugal*
Marquês de Pombal [Marquis of Pombal] Square and Liberdade [Liberty] Avenue, Lisbon, Portugal














> SOURCE: https://www.instagram.com/p/B3fkJcXnWAx/​


----------



## MacOlej

Does this setup improve traffic flow or safety in any way in comparison to a single circle with 5/6 lanes?


----------



## smokiboy

This last round roundabout in Lisbon seems quite odd. A roundabout within a roundabout. To me it is a monument to traffic and asphalt instead of to parks and people. Simply, the inner roundabout should be part of a park, the outer used for traffic.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The outer circle looks like a stretched out bus station. According to Wikipedia 18 bus lines stop there in addition to two subway lines.


----------



## DiogoBaptista

The new schema is not original and it was controversial when it was implemented. For some opinions it brought more traffic.

For me it is no longer a roundabout because traffic is not fluid and cars have to stop at every traffic light and intersection has you can see in the picture above. It's a roundabout with traffic lights.


----------



## Barragon

and there's also a road tunnel underneath.

In any case, the current philosophy of the city is really to reduce car traffic, creating some kind of difficulties in short journeys and promoting the use of other less polluting transport. This roundabout and adjacent Liberty Avenue is the area in the country where there is the greatest pollution related to vehicle gases.


----------



## Kpc21

But you have normal cars on it too.


----------



## Penn's Woods

ChrisZwolle said:


> The outer circle looks like a stretched out bus station. According to Wikipedia 18 bus lines stop there in addition to two subway lines.




It reminds me of Dupont Circle in Washington. Which is a pain in the ass to walk around the outside of, since you’ve got what amounts to four streets to cross (if you’re going 180 degrees).


----------



## lmpanp

Not pain!!! There are pedestrian tunnels and also with access to two-line subway station.


----------



## DiogoBaptista

> SOURCE: https://www.instagram.com/p/B3jXvY2H50D/​


----------



## visconde

MacOlej said:


> Does this setup improve traffic flow or safety in any way in comparison to a single circle with 5/6 lanes?


a single roundbout with 5 lanes was the previous set up.

AFAIK , this set up reduced the number of accidents, increased the area for pedestrians and allowed to create a bike path between the 2 roundabouts and now is much easier to go around the square as a pedestrian.

with the previous set up many people were affraid of doing this roundabout which doesnt happen anymore.

also the inner lanes were avoided by the majority of the drivers as it was hard to get out of the roundabout once in there and due to the proximity of all the exists many acccidents happened with people changing lanes

so overall i think the solution now is actually better. not perfect , but better.


----------



## DiogoBaptista

Yes, much in fact because most of the portuguese drivers dont know how to drive on a roundabout, we change things for dumbs. Welcome


----------



## bjmarques

visconde said:


> a single roundbout with 5 lanes was the previous set up.
> 
> AFAIK , this set up reduced the number of accidents, increased the area for pedestrians and allowed to create a bike path between the 2 roundabouts and now is much easier to go around the square as a pedestrian.
> 
> with the previous set up many people were affraid of doing this roundabout which doesnt happen anymore.
> 
> also the inner lanes were avoided by the majority of the drivers as it was hard to get out of the roundabout once in there and due to the proximity of all the exists many acccidents happened with people changing lanes
> 
> so overall i think the solution now is actually better. not perfect , but better.


Now the scariest roundabout is "Rotunda do Relógio" next to the Airport. It has 6 exits, 6 lanes and traffic lights in each intersection. In top of that, because it's used by a large number of rental cars, taxi and Uber drivers rushing to the airport there's accidents everyday.


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ At least one direction is bypassed by the overpass...


----------



## Kpc21

Non-turbo roundabouts with multiple lanes are dangerous in general, and this one has four or even five lanes (I can't see it well)...

Two lanes on such a roundabout should be a maximum.


----------



## Wilhem275

The real issue is the amount of lanes on exits.

Under the current Italian road Law it's forbidden to build roundabout exits with more than one lane, which makes sense.
Too bad this came after a large number of intersections on multi-lane main roads were converted to roundabouts just slightly larger than the roads themselves.

To me it's criminal to fit a pretended roundabout onto what is basically just a straight path on a fast road. It's just an invite for drivers to run trough them as fast as possible.
Hopefully this law will avoid some of these "a roundabout will fit everywhere and fix anything" cases.


----------



## PapaleuPaes

Wilhem275 said:


> The real issue is the amount of lanes on exits.
> 
> Under the current Italian road Law it's forbidden to build roundabout exits with more than one lane, which makes sense.
> Too bad this came after a large number of intersections on multi-lane main roads were converted to roundabouts just slightly larger than the roads themselves.
> 
> To me it's criminal to fit a pretended roundabout onto what is basically just a straight path on a fast road. It's just an invite for drivers to run trough them as fast as possible.
> Hopefully this law will avoid some of these "a roundabout will fit everywhere and fix anything" cases.


That's so true... on smaller european roads you see a lot of unbelievable small roundbouts for no reason.

When such roads are near towns they have like 5+ of such roundbouts in a row every 100 meters.... No wonder locals drive like crazy those roads...


----------



## Kpc21

Wilhem275 said:


> Too bad this came after a large number of intersections on multi-lane main roads were converted to roundabouts just slightly larger than the roads themselves.


In Lodz we had two such big roundabout intersections located nearby each other, converted to roundabouts in the 1990s. It's true that there were many accidents on them.

I the last few years, one got converted just to a normal intersection with traffic lights, the other one got rebuilt to a turbo roundabout.

https://goo.gl/maps/QrC1Ny6TRJxua2sd8 – this one is turbo now, but you can switch the Street View to the previous version and see how it used to look like previously. And yes, it was also a roundabout back then.

Meanwhile, a neighboring town of Zgierz recently converted one small intersection to a "pin" roundabout... causing exactly the same problem: https://goo.gl/maps/qWioGtr3pJ2AzA539

This "roundabout" is de facto an intersection where you have to give way to... the driver approaching from the left. On the contrary to the usual rule.

You can see by the rubbed off horizontal signage that most drivers ignore it.


----------



## Kpc21

Construction of the largest roundabout in Europe: https://apps.sentinel-hub.com/senti...9-04-01|2019-10-17&atmFilter=&showDates=false

It's a temporary roundabout which will encircle the Piotrków Trybunalski Południe junction for the time of its upgrade works related to the construction of the A1 motorway.


----------



## MattiG

Kpc21 said:


> It's a temporary roundabout which will encircle the Piotrków Trybunalski Południe junction for the time of its upgrade works related to the construction of the A1 motorway.


How is the A1 to be upgraded? Adding lanes or rebuilding the structure? I believe this the old section from 1970's and 1980's, isn't it?


----------



## Kpc21

Rebuilding the structure; the A1 section is from 1980s while the DK1 section further to the south (due to the lack of sufficient amount of money built as a "near-motorway" without overpasses), so called "gierkówka", was built in 1970s. All of it is now being upgraded to a motorway according to the current standards.


----------



## PovilD

It would be interesting to take a ride through this Europe's largest roundabout  ...but I think these kind of roundabouts aren't unique, although I can't recall other examples of such roundabouts, maybe I saw such roundabouts on OpenStreetMap in Russia, I can't recall where and when 

Kaunas-Vilnius in then-Soviet Lithuania was built on the time (or even earlier) when gierkowka was built - in the 60s. It had almost no left turns since it was built while Polish went cheaper way back then. There were some U-turns in Kaunas-Vilnius here and there until the mid 2010s, but now the road is getting almost full motorway standards (some sections are now under construction). The road will not become another S-road Polish standard road (I think there are other places that we should put money into) but it should become quite decent for current standards of average access controlled 2x2.


----------



## g.spinoza

This website claims the largest roundabout in the Italy is this one:
https://www.google.it/maps/@39.9485816,18.3204854,975m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=it&authuser=0
150 m in diameter.


----------



## Wilhem275

It could host a small village :lol:


----------



## Kpc21

PovilD said:


> It would be interesting to take a ride through this Europe's largest roundabout  ...but I think these kind of roundabouts aren't unique, although I can't recall other examples of such roundabouts, maybe I saw such roundabouts on OpenStreetMap in Russia, I can't recall where and when
> 
> Kaunas-Vilnius in then-Soviet Lithuania was built on the time (or even earlier) when gierkowka was built - in the 60s. It had almost no left turns since it was built while Polish went cheaper way back then. There were some U-turns in Kaunas-Vilnius here and there until the mid 2010s, but now the road is getting almost full motorway standards (some sections are now under construction). The road will not become another S-road Polish standard road (I think there are other places that we should put money into) but it should become quite decent for current standards of average access controlled 2x2.


It's nice to see that someone compares himself to the Polish roads as a standard  For centuries Polish roads were known for being terribly bad, now it seems to be changing to better.

I'd say now it's the worst with the roads/streets in cities – and maybe also with some countryside roads, but they successively get modernised.

Talking about such big roundabouts, I remember that a similar one was created when one of the junctions on the Bydgoszcz bypass was being built.


----------



## Aokromes

g.spinoza said:


> This website claims the largest roundabout in the Italy is this one:
> https://www.google.it/maps/@39.9485816,18.3204854,975m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=it&authuser=0
> 150 m in diameter.


that's tiny.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/П...b0f498!8m2!3d55.6611883!4d37.7566396?hl=en-US


----------



## Kpc21

350-380 metres in diameter.

The largest permanent roundabout in Poland is in Głogów and its circumference is nearly 850 m – which gives the diameter of 270 metres. Larger than the one in Italy.

Photos: https://www.rmf24.pl/raporty/raport...ews-oto-najwieksze-rondo-w-polsce,nId,1486102

It's the May 3rd Constitution Square: https://goo.gl/maps/su2tpzZb5VXaXJsi7

It has two-three lanes, it isn't turbo – but with such dimensions of the intersection it's rather not a problem.


----------



## g.spinoza

Aokromes said:


> that's tiny.
> 
> https://www.google.com/maps/place/П...b0f498!8m2!3d55.6611883!4d37.7566396?hl=en-US


It is entirely possible that roundabout is not the largest. Such inaccurate claims are common in Italy.

For instance, I already found one which is larger:
https://www.google.it/maps/@45.5501182,10.7813101,900m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=it&authuser=0
210 m in diameter

This one in Bologna is 202 m in diameter:
https://www.google.it/maps/place/Bo...8m2!3d44.494887!4d11.3426162?hl=it&authuser=0

This other one, in Bologna as well on the same road, is 235 m
https://www.google.it/maps/place/Bo...8m2!3d44.494887!4d11.3426162?hl=it&authuser=0


----------



## MacOlej

I was about to post Betzholzkreisel which is an autobahn-roundabout with a circumference of 1,5 km:
https://goo.gl/maps/LBvGqtL2bVTob7cQ9

But then I quickly googled "biggest roundabout in the world" and found one in Malaysia with a circumference of 3,4 km:
https://goo.gl/maps/9HHWdstufvYGNBU96


----------



## Rebasepoiss

^^ It's not truly a roundabout unless it has roundabout signs 

This one in Estonia near Tallinn has an outer diameter of 410 metres and a circumference of 1.27 km. And it is a "real" roundabout with proper roundabout signs.


----------



## mapman:cz

This one in Ostrava is signed as a proper roundabout as well and has a circumference of 1,25 km: https://mapy.cz/s/gosurecavu


----------



## PovilD

Kpc21 said:


> It's nice to see that someone compares himself to the Polish roads as a standard  For centuries Polish roads were known for being terribly bad, now it seems to be changing to better.


Newly built S and A roads have very good design. Almost none of the Post-Soviet countries have those kind of motorway, probably with only Russia, Lithuania and maybe Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan and Georgia are being closest of building such roads  With probably only in Lithuania 2x2 is most likely to become another S-road standard road  Estonia builds 2x2 but they are somewhat substandard, have little similarities with Old Soviet sections (though safety is concerned). Russia builds some decent toll motorway sections, but they aren't norm standards 2x2. Most of the new Russia's 2x2 are just regular dual-carriageways. Same for Belarus.

Since Lithuania completed core motorway network with highest AADTs during Soviet times, it is not entirely clear if there will be large network of Post-Soviet motorways: Via Baltica towards Poland should have S-road standards while I don't consider it clear if we will have such "S-road" towards Latvia. I hope, considering amounts of HGV, we will try to help Riga to connect itself with a proper motorway 

The problem with Soviet motorways is that with some of their elements: lack of slip roads, bus stops, short lanes for entering or exiting the motorway, even U-turns leans into regural dual-carriegeways and needs renovation for proper European standards. Vilnius-Kaunas is under construction. Kaunas-Klaipėda could be quite good motorway considering it was built during Soviet times, but some elements has to be renovated. I hope renovation will be in other important motorways/dual-carriegeways sections in the future.



Rebasepoiss said:


> ^^ It's not truly a roundabout unless it has roundabout signs
> 
> This one in Estonia near Tallinn has an outer diameter of 410 metres and a circumference of 1.27 km. And it is a "real" roundabout with proper roundabout signs.


...and I though Jakai near Klaipėda, Lithuania is large interchange (probably the largest in Lithuania), but is only 900 m circumference and 290 m diameter


----------



## Kpc21

PovilD said:


> Newly built S and A roads have very good design. Almost none of the Post-Soviet countries have those kind of motorway, probably with only Russia, Lithuania and maybe Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan and Georgia are being closest of building such roads


Hungary.


----------



## PovilD

Kpc21 said:


> Hungary.


I meant 15 former Soviet republics  But considering entire former Eastern bloc, then probably sure, Hungary, Slovakia and Poland are on the lead of building new high-quality motorways


----------



## MattiG

PovilD said:


> I meant 15 former Soviet republics  But considering entire former Eastern bloc, then probably sure, Hungary, Slovakia and Poland are on the lead of building new high-quality motorways


Just to remind: It is easy to be on the lead when the others pay the bills. The citizens of the other EU countries pay 85 percent of the cost of the East-European cohesion projects. For example, the multi-billion motorway projects in Poland were often on the agenda in the UK when discussing whether to brexit or not to brexit.


----------



## Kpc21

Much of those motorways were built without EU subsidy.


----------



## g.spinoza

Kpc21 said:


> Much of those motorways were built without EU subsidy.


You sure?

https://polska.pl/economy/investments-projects/eu-funds-poland/


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Use turn signal when exiting the roundabout:


Italy roundabout 01 by European Roads, on Flickr


Italy roundabout 02 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ I found a lot of them in South Tyrol, but not even one in the rest of Italy...


----------



## PovilD

...and use the opposite turn signal to show that you are keeping on the roundabout  Not mandatory though, I only heard that this practice is being used in some countries.


----------



## Kpc21

In Poland it's a never-ending dispute (there is even an SSC thread exactly on that! a permanent flame war) – because the law can be interpreted in several ways, which allows to draw various conclusions.

And there are examples of roundabouts (examples posted here not long ago, as dangerous normal-intersection-to-a-roundabout conversions) where this rule of always blinking right at the moment of exiting it just makes totally no sense. But at most of them, of course, it's the only sensible way of using the indicators.

If I'm not mistaken, using the left indicator (for purposes other than changing the lane) at a roundabout is forbidden in Germany.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Using a left turn signal on a roundabout in the Netherlands is not required, though some driving schools teach their students that. It's not overly common to do so in the Netherlands. I never do, since you don't make a left turn on a roundabout.


----------



## Kpc21

Even if you have left arrows painted on the roadway?

On turbo roundabouts particularly, I would use left turn signals, and sometimes not use right ones – as on normal intersections.

Interpreting literally the Polish law – you DO make a left turn on a roundabout.

A roundabout is a specific type of an intersection, and an intersection is a place where you can change the direction, a place where two or more roads join or intersect (a "direction" is basically the specific road on which you drive – e.g. in the road regulations terms, you don't change your direction when there is just a bend on the road). Each change of the direction should be signalled with an indicator.

Of course it is probably different in the Dutch legislation.


----------



## MattiG

ChrisZwolle said:


> Using a left turn signal on a roundabout in the Netherlands is not required, though some driving schools teach their students that. It's not overly common to do so in the Netherlands. I never do, since you don't make a left turn on a roundabout.


This ambiguity will be closed as of June 1st 2020 in Finland. The new road traffic act will come into effect. It states in an explicit way that the signal shall be used at exiting the roundabout. This is aligned with the current common behavior.


----------

