# [PL] Poland | road infrastructure • Autostrady i drogi ekspresowe



## smar

*Edited: 06/2011* (by schlesier)


Section about highways & motorways on Polish subforum

Statistics










▃ existing
▃ under construction
▃ planned
source: Wikipedia










▃ existing
▃ under construction
▃ project & bulid
▃ tender
▃ tender for project & bulid
▃ enviromental decision (DSU)









▃ existing
▃ under construction
▃ project & bulid
▃ tender
▃ tender for project & bulid
▃ enviromental decision (DSU)


2007: map of motorways (Wikipedia )








* in operation
* under construction
* planned

A2 - my pictures :


























































































































































I'm not good at english, so I don't write much


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## krzamak

Nice motorways and nice pictures!  :cheers:


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## smar

A2
There aren't my pictures


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## ChrisZwolle

Polish motorways are nice. I heard that A4 is repaired too (i was on that road when it was damaged (2004). Kryzyzowa - Wroclaw). 

But, i have a few questions;

Is there any certainty about the A2 through Warszawa, and east of Warszawa to Brest? 
Will there be an A6 from Szczecin to Gdansk or Kaliningrad?

And why for the love of god do they sign tiny places 600 kilometers away near borders? :nuts: :bash: 

i mean this:










But after all, Polish Autostrada's are very good. I hope it will improve the national economy.


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## Bahnsteig4

So this means that Warsaw is not directly connected to the motorway network?


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## ChrisZwolle

davidkunz/VIE said:


> So this means that Warsaw is not directly connected to the motorway network?


There are a lot of expressways around Warszawa. I don't know how they look like, never been around Warszawa.


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## Eric Offereins

Nice motorway. I was in Poland 3 years ago. Driving back along the A2 was a survival trip. We saw 4 big car accidents, we had huge thunderstorms and hail, the quality of the road and the drivers at times was bad, but it seems to be a lot better now. Is the last piece of raod to the German border still one lane?


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## smar

Chris1491 said:


> Polish motorways are nice. I heard that A4 is repaired too (i was on that road when it was damaged (2004). Kryzyzowa - Wroclaw).


Thanks . Reperation of A4 Krzywa-Wroclaw was finished.



> Is there any certainty about the A2 through Warszawa


2010/11, 



> and east of Warszawa to Brest?


2013/14. 



> Will there be an A6 from Szczecin to Gdansk or Kaliningrad?


there will be *S*6, but when?... after 2013... hno: 
*S* it's "almost" motorway: for example lane is narrower (3,5 meters; A-3,75 m., etc.)



> But after all, Polish Autostrada's are very good. I hope it will improve the national economy.


I hope so , but when? ...


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## smar

Eric Offereins said:


> Nice motorway. I was in Poland 3 years ago. Driving back along the A2 was a survival trip. We saw 4 big car accidents, we had huge thunderstorms and hail, the quality of the road and the drivers at times was bad, but it seems to be a lot better now.


I hope so  



> Is the last piece of raod to the German border still one lane?


unfortunately, and there isn't under construction yet... :bash: 
Probably A2 to the German border will be in 2010


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## x-type

can somebody explain what do the roads 1 and 8 (not A1 and A8!) look like? (i mean sections Katowice - Lodź and Piotrków Trybunalski - Warszawa? are they 4 laned or not, are the intersections in one level or more?


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## smar

x-type said:


> can somebody explain what do the roads 1 and 8 (not A1 and A8!) look like? (i mean sections Katowice - Lodź and Piotrków Trybunalski - Warszawa?


this roads have 4 lanes, some intersections in 2 levels (less than 50%)


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## Verso

Great motorways! But they seem kinda empty, also the surrounding...


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## Bahnsteig4

^^ I'd say that's an advantage. Do you like crowded motorways?


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## DiggerD21

Poland is just not as densely populated than the west european countries.


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## Verso

It's kinda boring with so little traffic. I also meant the areas that Polish motorways go through (except for city bypasses of course) are very sparsely populated. Oh well...


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## bolek1

DiggerD21 said:


> Poland is just not as densely populated than the west european countries.


Population density of some european countries:

*Germany 233 *
Liechtenstein 205 
Italy 192 
Switzerland 177 
Luxembourg 173 
Andorra 146 
Moldova 131 
Czech Republic 130 
Denmark 125 
*Poland 124 *
Albania 123 
Armenia 112 
Slovakia 111 
Serbia 110 
*France 109 *
Portugal 109 
Hungary 108 
Austria 97 
Slovenia 95 
Romania 94 
Azerbaijan 90 
Turkey 86 
Cyprus 83 
Republic of Macedonia 81 
Greece 81 
Ukraine 80 
*Spain 79 *

So, Poland is quite densely populated..


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## Deadeye Reloaded

...but the people have far less cars than in western Europe. 


*Cars/1000 inhabitants (2004)*

Iceland 599
Italy 581
Portugal 572
Germany 546
Malta 525
Switzerland 514
Austria 501
.
.
.
Poland *314*


http://europa.eu/rapid/pressRelease...&format=PDF&aged=1&language=DE&guiLanguage=en


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## Cyp

Some pictures from Katowice
[URL="http://images2.fotosik.pl/286/d37faad76f2221a3.jpg"]http://images3.fotosik.pl/285/a43aa6f750f6e793.jpg[/URL]
http://images1.fotosik.pl/294/ffa6d9c24b38ec24.jpg
http://images1.fotosik.pl/294/9c297148c17d95a4.jpg
http://images1.fotosik.pl/295/9a78e841c4d55f92.jpg
S1 Cracow-Zakopane
http://images4.fotosik.pl/252/caa551bf1fd5c483.jpg
http://images4.fotosik.pl/91/8066aed57456a37e.jpg
S11 Poznan Kornik
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v733/smar/S11/IMG_3273.jpg


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## smar

Cyp said:


> Some pictures from Katowice ...


Above-mentioned roads aren't motorways - this are expressways 


> S1 Cracow-Zakopane


It's S*7*


OK, now motorway *A4*:





































*Jaracz*'s pictures



























*Luki_SL*'s pictures


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## hkskyline

*Environmentalists Protest Highway Plans Across Polish Peat Bog*

*Environmentalists protest plans for highway across rare peat bog in Poland *
18 February 2007

WARSAW, Poland (AP) - Hundreds of environmentalists on Sunday protested the planned construction of a highway that would cross one of Europe's rare peat bogs. 

Polish authorities have approved plans to construct a section of the Via Baltica highway, linking Poland to Finland, that would cross a protected peat bog area off the Rospuda River in the northeast of the country. 

The decision, approved Feb. 9, violates a European program that protects rare ecological environments. The European Union's executive office has demanded an explanation from Warsaw and threatened sanctions if the project goes ahead. 

The government recently replied to the European Commission, saying that delaying the construction would threaten Polish plans to build a badly needed network of highways. 

Holding banners that read "The Government or Nature -- The Choice is Yours," and "Hands off Rospuda," some 100 protesters gathered near one of the presidential residences, the Belvedere, in downtown Warsaw. They also gathered signatures for a protest letter to the government arguing the highway should bypass Rospuda. 

Similar protests were held in Szczecin and Gdansk, on the Baltic coast, and in the southern city of Krakow. 

The environmentalists argue that the presence of heavy construction equipment and the planting of support pillars will destroy dozens of rare plants and animals found only in the bog. 

On Sunday, Environment Minister Jan Szyszko was to meet opponents and supporters of the highway gathered in the Rospuda Valley, where Greenpeace activists have been camping for a week in protest of the planned construction, which is to start in the coming weeks.


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## ikrys

ITS ALL ABOUT THE ROSPUDA VALLEY WHICH IS IN 
EUROPEAN NATURA 2000 NETWORK









I show you closer,whats the problem is,Look below picture
The blue line is independent road designers variant of the Augustow bypass and orange line is GDDKiA variant of the Augustow bypass,GDDKiA is the General Directorate of National road and Motorways 
Red lines are the existing national roads,orange tiny lines are existing voivodeships roads










*here you've got blue variant area *































*And here is red area,chosen by General Directorate of national road and Motorways*



























------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Augustów Forest with the unique Rospuda River Valley - an Important Bird Area (IBA) *

----------------------------------------------------------------------


*Latest: *The contrator was chosen and tomorow he could to start the works of Augustow bypass -GDDKiA variant


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## ikrys

Chris1491 said:


> Polish motorways are nice. I heard that A4 is repaired too (i was on that road when it was damaged (2004). Kryzyzowa - Wroclaw).


 Many times,there are a lot of mining industry's ,mostly thats why


Chris1491 said:


> But, i have a few questions;
> Is there any certainty about the A2 through Warszawa, and east of Warszawa to Brest?
> Will there be an A6 from Szczecin to Gdansk or Kaliningrad?
> And why for the love of god do they sign tiny places 600 kilometers away near borders? :nuts: :bash: ).


Warsaw -Brest is planned after 2013,A6 dont know
Korczowa is the place where is planned a cross border


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## TheCat

Cyp said:


> Some pictures from Katowice
> [URL="http://images2.fotosik.pl/286/d37faad76f2221a3.jpg"]http://images3.fotosik.pl/285/a43aa6f750f6e793.jpg[/URL]
> http://images1.fotosik.pl/294/ffa6d9c24b38ec24.jpg
> http://images1.fotosik.pl/294/9c297148c17d95a4.jpg
> http://images1.fotosik.pl/295/9a78e841c4d55f92.jpg
> ...


Wow I like the last picture, very cool dynamic traffic management system!


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## ikrys

^^ it has just done... Its the city center of the biggest Polish Agglomeration which is Katowice(called Silesia)


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## CborG

If they can avoid to go through that national park, they better do so. that kind of almost untouched nature is very rare in Europe.


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## ChrisZwolle

However natural areas importance is always exaggerated by environmentalists, they'd better go around this area. 

It looks to me, this will gonna be a very quiet motorway.


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## aswnl

> And why for the love of god do they sign tiny places 600 kilometers away near borders?





inz_Krys said:


> Korczowa is the place where is planned a cross border


There is no one in the world who knows that place. No one probably ever wants to go there. Signage is ment for people who are not well-known to the where the road-system will lead you. 

So this sign should mention Lviv, not Korczowa.
Also in the other direction: don't mention little nearly uninhabited places near the German border, but mention Berlin or Dresden, from the time you pass a focal city like Wroclav or Poznan.


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## ikrys

^^yes,agreed


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## hkskyline

*EU to seek court injunction against Poland in highway dispute *
26 February 2007

BRUSSELS, Belgium (AP) - The European Union's top environment official said Monday he would seek a court injunction to suspend construction of a highway in Poland, which is to run across a peat bog protected under EU habitat laws. 

Environment Commissioner Stavros Dimas said that the EU's executive office would have no other option but to sue Poland at the EU's highest court if it goes ahead with the project. 

A court injunction is a rare measure in environmental issues, underlining the seriousness of the latest disagreement between Poland and the EU executive. 

"We intend to send to Poland a second warning in the coming days and to bring the case to court to ask for suspension of the works before irreversible damage has been done," Dimas told reporters after meeting Poland's Environment Minister Jan Szyszko. 

He said Szyszko indicated that Warsaw would go ahead with the project, which the Commission says ignores EU rules. 

"It appears they will go ahead," Dimas said. "It is clear that fundamental requirements under EU legislation have not been respected." 

Szyszko said Poland would stand its ground, adding that Warsaw was not afraid of being sued at the European Court of Justice in Luxembourg. 

"I am convinced that Poland has acted in accordance with laws and its interests," he said. 

Polish Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski said Friday he was in favor of allowing local residents to decide in a referendum whether the controversial road project across the Rospuda River valley in northeastern Poland should go ahead. 

Polish authorities have approved plans to construct the 17 kilometer (10 mile) section of the Via Baltica highway, linking Poland to Finland. For 500 meters (yards), the road would cut through a protected peat bog in an effort to bypass a nearby town. 

The decision, approved Feb. 9, has provoked protests from environmentalists, who have camped in treetops in the valley. 

Kaczynski said that bowing to environmentalists would threaten the entire plan to build some 7,000 kilometers (4,000 miles) of badly needed highways in Poland by the year 2020. 

The Commission could impose a multimillion euro (dollar) fine on Poland if it gets the injunction and Warsaw still goes ahead with the project.


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## gladisimo

Well if they can, it's best to go around, not just because environmentalist are pissed about it, I have apart of me that likes nature too =)


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## ChrisZwolle

Maybe they can use noise-reducing pavement. They use that often in The Netherlands. I once biked right next to a single lane road and i almost didn't hear the cars! On motorways ofcourse, you hear more, because of the higher speeds, but that pavement produces way lesser noise than concrete, which is the worse in noise production, but the best in durability.


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## ikrys

Noise-reducing pavement,you mean silent mastics asphalt (SMA)? 
SMA is reducing noise about 4-6 dB lesser than conrecte and if we use screens that reduce noise 20dB
Whatever on this bypass is already designed SMA and screens as weel but it not stop the Environmental damages 
There are about 5000 traks ride trough the Augustow Town every day,the bypass is needed now...Everything is ready to start built at non-ecological variant. And as I sad there is an alternative


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## Patryjota

DK 1 Katowice - Częstochowa








DK 1 Częstochowa - Piotrków Tryb.

















S1 Swiecie bypass








S10 Toruń bypass




































A1
fairhair26's, Puls', adas' pictures


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## smar

My explanations to Patryjota's post:

DK - national road (^^ 4 lanes)
S - highway (2 and 4 lanes)


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## Obelixx

There are many motorways in Poland never completed. One of them is "Olimpijka", a planned motorway from the Eastern to the Western boarder, whose completion was originally planned for the Olympic Games in 1980 in Moscow, but which was never completed.









Never completed bridge of Olimpijka

Construction start of other incomplete motorways was already done before World War II, as these areas were still part of Germany. For example, there are incomplete motorway sections between Szczecin and Elblag.
What is the actual state of motorway between Elblag and Kaliningrad, which was built by the German's between 1933 and 1935?

Show us some pictures of devasted and uncomplete motorways in Poland!


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## Krist0f

No reason to get excited about the Polish motorways, we are dozens of years behind all well-developed countries. Driving in Poland has always been a pain in the ass. It is getting better nowadays, the newly completed motorways look quite OK but we must not forget they are hardly a few years old (on the other hand what's the big deal with a toll two-lane motorway, come on, maybe it would be something worth mentioning if it was for completely for free). Let's wait and see how they will look like in the years to come. We should not also forget how long it takes here to get the work done, come on, is it really that hard to build 2 or 3 complete motorways in a predominantly flat country with reasonably mild climate? Why does it take so long to launch the A1 construction? Polish motorways are not quite a reason to be happy, it is rather a proof how painfully slow the things can be dealt with over here. Fine to have a few finished routed but we need many more kms and fast!


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## ChrisZwolle

RAB between Elblag and Kaliningrad:


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## ikrys

from NATURE



> European Commission fights for rare Polish wetland
> Mega-expressway may threaten endangered birds.
> 
> 
> Sophie Stigler
> 
> The Rospuda valley: home to rare plants and animals, or a highway bypass?
> Kamila Brzezinska, Save Wetlands Association
> Conflicts between environmental goals and construction work may be a dime a dozen. But it isn't very often that the European Commission threatens a government with a court injunction to make road workers step down in favour of preserving nature.
> 
> That's what's happening in Poland, in a fight over a highway bypass due to be blasted through the Rospuda valley: a forested area home to a unique wetland system, many rare orchid and moss species, and endangered birds such as cranes and white-tailed eagles.
> 
> The bypass is supposed to upgrade an expressway through Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, called Via Baltica, which links Warsaw and Helsinki. The 260-million-euro project, due to be completed by 2010, is considered economically vital for the poor northwestern part of Poland. But environmentalists say the expressway threatens to seriously damage a nature reserve designated as a 'special protection area' under the European Union's wild-bird directive.
> 
> When in February Polish authorities gave road contractors the green light, the nation was moved to protest. Several scientific bodies have lodged complaints, among them the biology faculty of the University of Warsaw.
> 
> Despite a warning that the European Commission issued last December, roadworks and clearing for the project began two weeks ago. "We had to accelerate our normal procedure, because something irreplaceable was about to be destroyed," says Barbara Helfferich, a spokeswoman for the European Commission's environment directorate. On 28 February, the European Commission threatened to file an injunction at the European Court of Justice if Poland failed to respond within one week, and construction activity was suspended.
> 
> The Polish government has responded, but says their road does not violate European law. Poland is "open to dialogue with the European Commission", says a spokesman for the ministry. It is unclear if and when construction will resume.
> 
> Almost pristine
> 
> Rospuda valley contains "a rare mosaic of unspoilt habitats", the Commission says. One of these habitats is a uniquely preserved groundwater-fed mire or fen, once typical of many lowland regions in central Europe.
> 
> "Human settlement and agriculture have turned most of Europe's fens into skeletons," says Hans Joosten, a mire ecologist at the University of Greifswald in Germany, and secretary general of the International Mire Conservation Group. Joosten is currently drafting a report on request of the European Commission about the mire's ecological value. "Rospuda is the last fen in central Europe that has remained almost pristine. It shows us how such ecosystems have evolved in the last thousand years," he says.
> 
> "Rospuda valley is probably the last reference system [of its type] in Europe for restoration ecologists," agrees Wiktor Kotowski, president of Save Wetlands, a Polish environmental group.
> 
> Scientists find it hard to predict exactly how harmful the road would have been for the valley. But they do know that it would have reduced breeding areas for already rare bird species. "In the long run [such a road] might destroy the water cycle and thus the whole ecosystem," says Joosten.
> 
> 
> ADVERTISEMENT
> 
> Nature conservation has little priority in Poland, says Kotowski. "Most people don't understand that we either have to protect our heritage or we will lose it." Instead of choosing an alternative route, Poland had offered to compensate the damage by planting trees, creating ponds and restoring wetlands. But the European Commission considered these measures "weak and unconvincing".
> 
> If Poland continues road works in the protected site without Brussels's permission, the European Commission says the next step would be to take the case before the European Court of Justice.


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## ChrisZwolle

European Union should stick to international cases in my opinion.


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## Verso

Is it possible to drive on any of these never completed motorways?


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## ikrys

It looks like!
Generaly most of roads are in preparing right now, are designed with that space, for example -7m (2x3,5m) for future lanes +4m of regular space and it gives 11meters for now, Iam talking about expresways and motorways as well -2x2 with lefted space for future 2x3,
Its a new idea to fix future problems with groving trafic


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## ChrisZwolle

Very good! We see here in The Netherlands, that they haven't looked to the future, and now some motorways are impossible to widen.


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## GENIUS LOCI

inz_Krys said:


> Its a new idea to fix future problems with groving trafic


It's not that new 

In Italy some highway's stretches have been built with this system: e.g. the branch from Modena to Verona of 'Brennero highway' (A22) built in '70s I think
Unfortunately traffic on that highway increased to a congestion level since 20 years at least, but they didn't build the 3d lane yet even if they left the space just to make it easier

Just recently they decided to upgrade the highway to a 3 lanes one :bash:


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## Din 1451

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=54.420703,20.063267&spn=0.015581,0.033302&t=h&z=15&om=1

here is a link to the Polish Russian Border and it shows what was a German Autobahn from the 1930's. There is only one carriageway left. You can follow it all the way to Kallingrad (Königsberg) in Russia. I think it's crazy. It's got loads of private access onto it now and normal T junctions.


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## Lucky Luke

There are few motorways under construction right now. The last part of A4 towards the border with Germany (50 km), A4 from Krakow to Szarów (20km ) , A1 from Gdansk to Grudziadz (90km) , A1 Sosnica - Belk (15.5 km)

Few more are under bidding right now. But it's just not enough. It's going way to slow


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## hkskyline

*Poles vote in referendum on controversial highway *

WARSAW, May 20, 2007 (AFP) - Residents of the Bialystok region of northeastern Poland were voting on Sunday in a referendum on a plan to build a highway through virgin forest that is strongly opposed by the European Union. 

The project in the Rospuda Valley has been taken to the European Court of Justice by the European Commission, which supports the case of environmental groups that it will destroy the area's fragile ecosystem. 

The road is backed by the major political parties, and the ruling conservatives gathered the necessary 50,000 signatures required by law for the referendum to be held. 

A recent opinion poll showed that 88 percent of locals want the road, in particular the 17,000 inhabitants of the town of Augustow, who will be bypassed by thousands of trucks which currently pass through their streets. 

The regional head of the ruling Law and Justice Party, Mariusz Kaminski, told AFP his party hoped the referendum result would help sway the opinion of the European Court of Justice. 

The planned stretch of highway near the Lithuanian border is part of a corridor called the Via Baltica, linking Warsaw with the three Baltic states. 

Opponents of the Augustow bypass were given a boost last month when a Polish administrative court annulled the construction permit, obliging the government to consider the more costly option of putting part of the road in a tunnel.


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## officedweller

*Referendum Over Highway Through Rare Peat Bog in Poland Ruled Invalid*

May 21, 2007 — By Associated Press

WARSAW -- A referendum on whether to build a highway through a rare peat bog protected by European Union habitat laws failed to muster the necessary voter turnout and has been declared invalid, election officials said Monday. 

Turnout for the local referendum on the planned construction of a 500-meter (yard) stretch of highway through the Rospuda River valley was only 21.56 percent, said Bogumila Karniewicz, deputy head of the referendum commission in nearby Bialystok, northeastern Poland. 

Ninety-three percent of voters backed the highway's construction, but turnout was far short of the 30-percent threshold needed for the referendum to be valid, Karniewicz said. 

The result deals a blow to Poland's ruling Law and Justice party, which sponsored the referendum in an attempt to strengthen its hand in its dispute with the European Commission over the project. 

The commission has taken Poland to Europe's top court to prevent the construction of the highway. 

While even a valid result would have no legal impact on the court's ruling, Poland's government had hoped to use strong popular backing from the referendum to bolster its case before the court. 

Poland's government says the road is needed to relieve heavy truck traffic clogging the nearby town of Augustow and that it would provide an economic boost to a rapidly developing region. 

Opponents say building the highway across the habitat of rare plants and animals would wreak havoc with ecosystems and destroy the area's pristine beauty. 

Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski has said that caving in to pressure would be a bad precedent for the whole project to build some 7,000 kilometers (4,000 miles) of badly needed highways in Poland by the year 2020. 

No heavy equipment is at the site and construction has been temporarily halted to respect a ban on disturbing the peace from March to July, when storks and other birds lay their eggs. 

Source: Associated Press


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## ChrisZwolle

> Ninety-three percent of voters backed the highway's construction


Enough support to build this road i think. 

One must see this from the local point of view, Eastern Poland always has been the poorer part of the country, and economic development will be welcome here, i think.


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## ikrys

^^maybe

pictures taken (27-05-2007) by @vampi_r from Forum of Polish Skyscrapers


north view, southern part of forest, We can see the N2000 over there 
and there are no road works now until september2007 becouse of bird breed period 










Augustow bypass
by vampi_r


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## goschio

Very sad do destroy the nature for a highway. Cant they just build around it.


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## Gatis

Really - why they don't built it as proposed in alternative option? OK, I imagine - it might slow it down and EU money will be lost... If there is any.

Balts are interested in this road - this is our "life road" to Western Europe. But environmental interests are very important too.


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## ikrys

Gatis said:


> Really - why they don't built it as proposed in alternative option? OK, I imagine - it might slow it down and EU money will be lost... If there is any.


no!! all is for polish money (KFD-country fund for Roads from oil and petrol taxes)
GDDKiA variant of the Augustow bypass have been preparing since 1992 I gues
In 1992 there were now N2000 in Rospuda Valley..for designers there were just a trees and river..oh, and a peat bog as well
Since 2004 Poland is in EU,and got N2000 from this time....All procedures where in progress for this time, I mean 2004(diferent from EU procedures)
Now Poland has money for works,but the European Comision wants to back us to begin of the proces and do all in accordance with EU law (procedures)
If we stop built that bypass, people in this town will have to wait minimum 5-years for other road



> Balts are interested in this road - this is our "life road" to Western Europe. But environmental interests are very important too.


Via Baltica is under prepar,but there is no variant chosen so far


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## ChrisZwolle

> but the European Comision wants to back us to begin of the proces and do all in accordance with EU law (procedures)


Those procedures suck. We have them for years, and by the time you'll finally through such a procedure, the plans are outdated. Example of this is the Dutch A2 between Utrecht and Amsterdam, now 2x3 lanes, would be widened to 2x4, but procedures takes so much time, they decided to widen to 2x5 lanes at once. Same counts futher south, but then from 2x2 lanes tot 2x4 lanes.


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## Gatis

> In 1992 there were now N2000 in Rospuda Valley..for designers there were just a trees and river..oh, and a peat bog as well
> Since 2004 Poland is in EU,and got N2000 from this time....All procedures where in progress for this time, I mean 2004(diferent from EU procedures)
> Now Poland has money for works,but the European Comision wants to back us to begin of the proces and do all in accordance with EU law (procedures)


Sorry, I am "old bureaucrat" who was involved to some extent in Natura 2000 site selection in Latvia. Natura 2000 sites should protect at least 10% of protected biotopes of each kind represented in respective country - if to put it simply. When planning Natura 2000 site network in Poland your bureaucrats had a possibility to compare their list with the plans of road builders. If the road touches proposed Natura 2000 site there is done one of the two: a) road project is changed. b) bureaucrats quickly find another site with similar value to protect and don't include the project site in Natura 2000 site.

In a case a) Brussels never hear about such problem, road builders get a time and design the road elsewhere (it takes 1 - 2 years) and nature values are protected. Project comes a bit slower but this is better than now.

In a case b) Brussels never hear about such problem, nature values are protected (elsewhere) and road is built.

OK, environment bureaucrats did not contact road bureaucrats. Natura 2000 site was approved for Rospuda valley and it came as surprise for road builders. At that moment (if Poland entered in EU in a honest way - and I am sure it did - it had to happen at very latest in 2003) road builders had to understand harsh reality and as fast as possible start to design road in another site. Natura 2000 site is holy cow and better don't touch it. Here in Riga Natura 2000 site stopped 1 billion EUR port development project.


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## ikrys

Gatis said:


> Sorry, I am "old bureaucrat" who was involved to some extent in Natura 2000 site selection in Latvia. Natura 2000 sites should protect at least 10% of protected biotopes of each kind represented in respective country - if to put it simply. When planning Natura 2000 site network in Poland your bureaucrats had a possibility to compare their list with the plans of road builders. If the road touches proposed Natura 2000 site there is done one of the two: a) road project is changed. b) bureaucrats quickly find another site with similar value to protect and don't include the project site in Natura 2000 site.



I dont know many facts about that case but..
Governmental proposal of N2000 network sent (3,7% of the countrys area)
by the Polish Ministry of Enviromental to the European Commission in may 2004 doesnt include Rospuda Valley and many others.
The list was trown open for public cosultation for the period of 5 days
However none of the numerous comments to the list was taken into account
Environmental created SHADOW LIST in 2004 and sent to EC in 12.2004 (5-10% of the countrys area)I gues -proposal necessary for the good functioning of N2000 network, it included Rospuda valley(Augustow Forest)


> OK, environment bureaucrats did not contact road bureaucrats. Natura 2000 site was approved for Rospuda valley and it came as surprise for road builders. At that moment (if Poland entered in EU in a honest way - and I am sure it did - it had to happen at very latest in 2003) road builders had to understand harsh reality and as fast as possible start to design road in another site. Natura 2000 site is holy cow and better don't touch it. Here in Riga Natura 2000 site stopped 1 billion EUR port development project.


In Poland many of existing projects are backed to the chosing variants perod,bicouse of the shadow list, for example bypass of my familiar city-Lublin and many many others


----------



## ikrys

Chris1491 said:


> Those procedures suck. We have them for years, and by the time you'll finally through such a procedure, the plans are outdated. Example of this is the Dutch A2 between Utrecht and Amsterdam, now 2x3 lanes, would be widened to 2x4, but procedures takes so much time, they decided to widen to 2x5 lanes at once. Same counts futher south, but then from 2x2 lanes tot 2x4 lanes.


Good solution is to built Augustow bypass in route of Viabaltica(2x2 or 2x3) which is just in prepare(chosing variants period),and just live that outdated variant(1x2) trough N2000
Im sure that the Commission stop that built in September after the "bird breed period"


----------



## eusebius

Chris1491 said:


> Those procedures suck. We have them for years, and by the time you'll finally through such a procedure, the plans are outdated. Example of this is the Dutch A2 between Utrecht and Amsterdam, now 2x3 lanes, would be widened to 2x4, but procedures takes so much time, they decided to widen to 2x5 lanes at once. Same counts futher south, but then from 2x2 lanes tot 2x4 lanes.


Things were so much better under Hitler, we didn't have those procedures or democracy. Just kill the people who live next to these roads.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

eusebius said:


> Things were so much better under Hitler, we didn't have those procedures or democracy. Just kill the people who live next to these roads.


What a stupid comment :bash:


----------



## eusebius

Your criticism on these procedures is stupid :yes: In your warped vision you think that it is your democratic right to ruin the place where other people, or wildlife, live. You moan on end about a lack of motorways whilst you live in a country with a ridiculous amount of motorways. Just because you're too lazy and drive a car, people should move and live somewhere else.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No, i said the procedures are ridicilously long. They should argue it is okay or not okay to build a road in a decent amount of time, not years and years.


----------



## Lankosher

Verso said:


> ^^ So now the traffic is running on the new half (to be able to rebuild the old half), or both sides are open for traffic, so one side of the motorway is crappy?


Both sides are open for traffic, eastband roadway is in projecting phase and planned for construction next year.


----------



## fredru$

^^ *@ Verso 
As of now, both sides are open for traffic, one side is: "a highway to heaven", and the other is "a highway to hell"* 

But the afterhitler part is being prepared for rebuilding, right now it is in projecting stage.


.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

http://images1.fotosik.pl/256/c9eacf59a10f2fcb.jpg

He lol, i saw these selling points too... I assume they will disappear when the A18 is completed. As far as i remember the old DK18 wasn't as bad as the old A4.


----------



## Lankosher

Chris1491 said:


> I assume they will disappear when the A18 is completed..


Most certainly they will do, unless they have already buggered off


----------



## fredru$

^^ Of course they will have to move, for the A-18, after completed, will gain rank of a motorway and no such crap will be allowed, but I suspect, they will move to rest area.

.


----------



## Lankosher

fredru$ said:


> ... but I suspect, they will move to rest area..


After completion, a new A18 motorway will be fenced and no illegal business ventures will be permited as a result.


----------



## Verso

fredru$ said:


> ^^ *@ Verso
> As of now, both sides are open for traffic, one side is: "a highway to heaven", and the other is "a highway to hell"*
> 
> But the afterhitler part is being prepared for rebuilding, right now it is in projecting stage.
> 
> 
> .


 So what's the speed limit on the... Hitler section?  I can't imagine driving 130 km/h there. :S


----------



## ChrisZwolle

@ Verso, you have to drive as fast as possible, that way you don't feel every bump. And you are faster over this bad road.

Ofcourse, this approach is not very good for your suspension :lol:


----------



## Lankosher

Verso said:


> So what's the speed limit on the... Hitler section?  I can't imagine driving 130 km/h there. :S


90 km/h - formally it's still ranked as a dual-carriageway.


----------



## yasioo7

Sławek;13988213 said:


> You forgot, that a distance between highways (A) junctions must be at least 3.5km.
> In Poland we have:
> - Highways (A)
> There must have at least double level junctions, 2.5m side-space; required a distance between junctions: 3.5km; is required to build barriers between roads.
> - Expressways (S)
> a) 2-roads
> b) 1-roads
> There must have at least double level junctions; 1.0m side-space; a distance between junctions is undefined; is required to build barriers between roads.
> - Mainroads (DK)
> a) 2-roads
> b) 1-roads
> There mustn't have at least double level junctions; without side-space; a distance between junctions is undefined; isn't required to build barriers between roads.
> - other roads


Right Sławek, I forgot about distances between junctions/interchanges on higways and expressways. Unfortunately you have mentioned wrong distances. Correct distances between junctions/interchanges in Poland are:
- highways (A):
a) non urban area - 15000 m, exceptionally 5000 m,
b) urban area - 5000 m, exceptionally 3000 m,
- expressways (S):
a) non urban area - 5000 m, exceptionally 3000 m,
b) urban area - 3000 m, exceptionally 1500 m,
- main roads of accelerated traffic (GP):
a) non urban area - 2000 m, exceptionally 1000 m,
b) urban area - 1000 m, exceptionally 600 m,
- main roads (G):
a) non urban area - 800 m, exceptionally 600 m,
b) urban area - 500 m, exceptionally 400 m



Chris1491 said:


> That sounds kind of a stupid requirement! If so, you can rename almost all of the Dutch motorway network!
> How are you gonna do that in urban areas like Warszawa or Silesia?


The distances between junctions/interchanges are related to safety rules and sign distances. For example there is a minimal distance between two gantry signs, what is related to velocity and perception of drivers.
Sometimes the distance between two interchanges is shorter than these mentioned above. If the distance is longer than the exceptional distance mentioned above we have to obtain a permission to desing such interchanges. If the distance is shorter than the exceptional distance mentioned above we have to design so called "group of interchanges" or "joint interchange". Group of interchanges looks like, for example interchange of E22 and Jan van Galenstraat, interchange of E22 and S104 (Bos en Lommerweg) and interchange of E22 and N200 (Haarlemmerweg) in Amsterdam. Joint interchange looks like E22/A8/A10/S118 (Verlengde Stellingweg) interchange or E35/A9/Meibergdreef interchange, also in Amsterdam.


----------



## fredru$

*Mortorway A-4 under construction*
The A4 highway in Poland is a motorway which, when completed, will run from west to east through southern Poland, from the Polish-German border in Zgorzelec (connecting to the German A4 autobahn), through Wroclaw, Katowice, Kraków and Rzeszów to the Polish-Ukrainian border in Korczowa. The highway is a part of the European route E40. At present about 380 km of the highway have been completed, out of the planned total length of 670 km. The section already completed, essentially the western half of the highway, runs continuously from the border with Germany to Kraków, *except for a missing section of about 50 km between Boleslawiec and Zgorzelec on german border *








Autostrada A4

*Photos taken on: 2007 june 20 *









*
Exposed aftergerman viaduct. It will be taken apart and in its place a new one will be raised. *



























* The road on the first plane (DK-4) is the one which connects polish-german border crossing with existing A-4. The stretch under construction, will replace that connection*









*Road service circuit will be placed here *


















*Germany on the most top of the picture*









* Short existing stretch of hywy A-4 at the border*









*Germany on the left side of the river - Niese. On the right side of the river - Poland. This short stretch at the border will be rebuilt, it will gain a concrete surface *









*Autostrada seen from german side. In lower right corner - Germany *









*Innicial stretch of hywy. On the horizon - Zgorzelec , Goerlitz and Mount Landeskrone. Germany on the right side *


----------



## fredru$

edited


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Very good report! I drove the DK4 once in the evening, traffic was low, but an Autostrada is definatly better.


----------



## fredru$

Chris1491 said:


> Very good report! I drove the DK4 once in the evening, traffic was low, but an Autostrada is definatly better.


*In the midle of 2009, you will be able to travel by hywy, all the way from german border to Krakow, 
and by yr. 2012, you'll able to travel exclusively by hywy, all the way to the ukrainian border. 



Here are a few more aerial pictures from construction of the most western part of the A-4:

All pictures taken on: 2007 june 20 *

* Crossing of rail road line running to Germany*









*Km 32 . Nowa Wieś i Kierżno. Bridge MA 31 over the Kwisa river*









*On the foreplane - viaduct WD30 in Nowa Wies (New Vilage) over the road # 357.* 









*Nowa Wieś, km 32 View to the east*









*Bridge Ma 31 on the Kwisa river*









* Viaduct site WA 33 *









* The site of future animal crossing over the hywy, on migration route*









*Bridge site MA35 on Kliczkówka creek*









*Viaduct site WD 36 on forest road Dobra- Osieczów*









*Viaduct site WA 37 on the road nr 350 Bolesławiec-Osiecznicy*









*Animals crossing site PZ 38*









*Viaduct on the road leading to forester quarters - Bukowy Las*









*KM 40-36 = 40-36 km. from the begining of the A-4, at pol-ger border. View to the west*










.


----------



## Verso

Where's that website with loads of pix of Polish motorways, neatly settled by numbers (A1, A2...), autostrada.pl or sth like that? I've already tried to find it, but I guess it's gone or?


----------



## Jaracz

Verso said:


> Where's that website with loads of pix of Polish motorways, neatly settled by numbers (A1, A2...), autostrada.pl or sth like that? I've already tried to find it, but I guess it's gone or?


The site ( http://www.autostrady.com ) is unfortunately no longer on-line, due to private reasons of the Author. 

Greetz


----------



## Verso

^^ Too bad, it was great!


----------



## fredru$

^^ *Yea, we all miss it*. 


.


----------



## dawid_silesia

national road DK8 (E67) between CZ-PL border and Kłodzko

map - http://mapa.targeo.pl/,5,318765,287142


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Cool.

But signing a border over 800km away is just madness. :nuts:


----------



## radi6404

I don´t like Polish raods.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

radi6404 said:


> I don´t like Polish raods.


And the reasons to say that are...


----------



## Tuzin

radi6404 said:


> I don´t like Polish raods.


And polish roads dont like you.


----------



## radi6404

Rebasepoiss said:


> And the reasons to say that are...


I don´t like the crashbarriers


----------



## Rebasepoiss

^You know, I took my glass ball out this morning and it predicted me that radi6404 will be banned soon if he doesn't cut this bullshit.


----------



## radi6404

Rebasepoiss said:


> ^You know, I took my glass ball out this morning and it predicted me that radi6404 will be banned soon if he doesn't cut this bullshit.


You may report me if i did something against you or the rules.


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

I like Polish roads. Especially when you are entering Poland from Russia :lol: It is too bad Poland doesn't have a good motorway network yet, but the local roads are in nearly perfect conditions. Polish drivers, however, want to drive fast on them (because of the absence of motorways, I guess), so sometimes they drive a bit recklessly. Also, all those local roads run through numerous towns and it slows traffic significantly.


----------



## keber

Chris1491 said:


> Cool.
> 
> But signing a border over 800km away is just madness. :nuts:


Why? For transit traffic (which is not negligible) it's quite useful. Probably it is not repeated every five or ten km.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The future network of Expressways in Poland is quite impressive. I think you can compare them with the French Voie Expresses? That would make a nice motorway-network.


----------



## fredru$

^^ Yea, but so far those are just a lines on the map  

Just couple days ago, goverment isued a map of the polish motorways & expressways system, 
it is planing to build by yr. 2012. Needless to say, that not much of people on polish forum, believe it'll happend. :nuts: 

The navy blue lines represent - hyways in existence
The green lines represent - hyways on priority list, to be built by yr. 2012
the brown lines represent - hyways on reserve list, to be bult by yr. 2012, if there is enough money left from 
the priority list
The yelow lines represent - hyways to be built after yr. 2012
The pinc lines represent - other hyways to be built in further future










.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

wow polska is finally getting some highways they really need some i hate those two lane country roads.


----------



## fredru$

In meanwhile, construction of the most western 50 km. stretch of A-4, in full blown swing.


*A4, km. 17+000-17+500 ( 30.06-05.07.2007)*









* km. 19+000-20+000 *









*km. 18+000-19+000*.









* km 19+000-20+000* .









*constuction site of viaduct WD21* .









* km 18+000-19+000* 









*construction site of viaduct WD17* 









* technologic road, km 17+000-18+000 *


----------



## Sławek

* This thread is about existing motorways in Poland, not about building roads, other roads. (DK,GP, etc) -only A & S (motorways+expressways)

Lastly I saw here photos prom national roads, you give photos about sth which will be built in the future.

If you have new photos, post them on the forum: "Inwestycje drogowe".
*

:bash:


----------



## MisiekSnk

I-275westcoastfl said:


> wow polska is finally getting some highways they really need some i hate those two lane country roads.


It is unfortunately true, our two lane country roads are horrible but this situation is changing and in future (2012 I hope ) there will be an another world


----------



## KHS

Don´t worry. You´ve got plenty of time. Croatia built 350 km of A1 motorway in just 3 years. It was very difficult terrain with many tunnels, viaducts and bridges. You have Euro 2012 boost now. I have no doubt in your success.:cheers:


----------



## Lankosher

KHS said:


> Don´t worry. You´ve got plenty of time. Croatia built 350 km of A1 motorway in just 3 years. It was very difficult terrain with many tunnels, viaducts and bridges. You have Euro 2012 boost now. I have no doubt in your success.:cheers:


Many of us are very sceptic about these plans, we figure that 5 years is not enough to build as many motorways and expressways as our government claims to. The problem is not just the period of building roads but all the necessary procedures from feasibility study, community consultations, environmental decision, building project up to tender submission - All these things may take up to 5 years if we are lucky. In most cases we are somewhere half way to start building all these necessary roads. If our government does not enhance some regulations to speed up these processes than there will not be a damn chance to finish all planned roads on time which is spring 2012.


----------



## KHS

I wish you luck.


----------



## Lankosher

KHS said:


> I wish you luck.


Thanks, we'll need a lot of it, though I want to belive that we will handle this task and eventually a success is achieved.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

MisiekSnk said:


> It is unfortunately true, our two lane country roads are horrible but this situation is changing and in future (2012 I hope ) there will be an another world


I saw some Fotorelacja (photoseries) from DK-roads on the Polish subforum, they are very different, some are in bad state, but some have brand new pavement.


----------



## Lankosher

Chris1491 said:


> I saw some Fotorelacja (photoseries) from DK-roads on the Polish subforum, they are very different, some are in bad state, but some have brand new pavement.


I would say that every year condition of polish DK's improves drastically so in terms of quality it keeps getting better.


----------



## Nephasto

^^I see... maybe their quality will also vary from one to another, which happens to for example in french expressways, where some are real motorways, with all the features of a motorway, while other have same level intersections, etc...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

From Polish Wikipedia:

droga publiczna o ograniczonej dostępności, przeznaczoną wyłącznie do ruchu pojazdów samochodowych, wyposażona w jedną lub dwie jezdnie, posiadająca wielopoziomowe skrzyżowania z przecinającymi ją innymi drogami transportu lądowego i wodnego, z dopuszczeniem wyjątkowo jednopoziomowych skrzyżowań z drogami publicznymi. Droga ekspresowa wyposażona jest w urządzenia obsługi podróżnych, pojazdów i przesyłek, przeznaczone wyłącznie dla użytkowników drogi.

My Polish isn't very good, but it says there have to be multilevel junctions with other roads,


----------



## Nephasto

^^Well, if they'il have different level access and shoulders, then they will be just like a regular motorways. Who cares if the lanes are 3.5m and not 3.75m wide?! A driver can't even tell the diference!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Hehe. Expressways are cheaper, and more important; easier to build. You don't have to follow the extreme procedures of the EU to build a motorway. Like in the Netherlands, where they are trying to build a road, takes up to 10 years before construction actually starts.
So Polish government won't wait that long (damn right they are). Maybe some Drogowa Ekspresowa's (Expressways) will be up to motorway standards later.


----------



## Mateusz

But if government want to upgrade some expressways to motorway they must build those expressways at very high standard because there are technical diffrences beetwen them


----------



## Nephasto

^^Well, probably the geometry of the expressways is not as good as that of motorways. And that's not easy to fix, so if they want to upgrade them later, they better build them with good geometry feature.

But thinking about it, poland is mainly flat, so it shouldn't be difficult to build roads with good geometry.


----------



## Lankosher

MateoW said:


> But if government want to upgrade some expressways to motorway they must build those expressways at very high standard because there are technical diffrences beetwen them


Give me one reasonable explanation what would it be for??? Can you see any reason to upgrade expressway into motorway???? I figure it's pointless, takes only money but no noticeable difference.


----------



## Nephasto

If expressways are going to be that good (almost indistinguishable from motorways), I don't see what's the point of expressways
If they're almost the same they should built them all as motorways right away.

But I guess not all the expressways will have such higher standards.


----------



## Energy2003

I saw they were building a lot. But i don´t know how fast they are.

One very interesting thing .... no matter what kind of road it will get, you see every little village with just a few inhabitans will have it´s own exit.

This isn´t here that normal in Austria 

The street was:

1-1 in every direction now. with trucks, farmers machines.

The average speed can go down till just 20 km/h on same parts.

which brings people to overtake at some risky places

also it looked like, if 1-2 km are finished - > they use it.

good for the people, but bad for the quality, when every small part has to be integrated to the existing road


----------



## ufonut

I think there is a big misconception or misunderstanding here. Polish expressways would most likely be classified as full blown highways outside of Poland. They are indeed very good. To a casual driver there isn't really much difference except for rest areas and call boxes which are more prominent on highways (toll ones). The plan calls for close to 5000km of expressways and highways. 

Here are some recent examples of S1 (Cieszyn to Bielsko-Biala). Photos by Kronos KBC.


----------



## Lankosher

Widthwise polish expressway is exactly the same as Slovakian highway, so indeed, they don't differ much from eachother.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah only the emergency lanes are a bit narrow. But who cares? It's a great improvement from all those old Droga Krajowa's.


----------



## Lankosher

Chris1491 said:


> ...... old Droga Krajowa's.


You are a serious motorway freak my friend :lol: obviously in a positive meaning :cheers:


----------



## radi6404

As if someone could read the signs so far away from the motorway.


----------



## CborG

I can see what it says almost from this position, Mercedes-benz etc... That should certainly be no problem when you drive next to it. It can't be much closer to the road anyways because it's right next to a steep slope.


----------



## Energy2003

this is great road. so it´s no problem to get from border to A4


----------



## ChrisZwolle

radi6404 said:


> As if someone could read the signs so far away from the motorway.


This pic is obviously zoomed, and the advertising signs are almost as wide as 2 lanes, so it won't be a problem to read them from nearby. 
But who's interested in advertising anyway? 

The only advertising i like is a huge yellow M on a pole :lol: nah just kidding.


----------



## RawLee

Chris1491 said:


> This pic is obviously zoomed, and the advertising signs are almost as wide as 2 lanes, so it won't be a problem to read them from nearby.
> But who's interested in advertising anyway?
> 
> The only advertising i like is a huge yellow M on a pole :lol: nah just kidding.


I miss something..where is the viaduct? It seems a bit steep..do down so much,then back up again...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's because this pic is quite zoomed. I bet that next car is like 500m away.


----------



## Lankosher

Chris1491 said:


> That's because this pic is quite zoomed. I bet that next car is like 500m away.


I would say 250 meters, look how many posts are in between the photographer and the next car???? The distance between 2 posts is roughly 50 meters so we can clearly see that there are 5 of them ahead of us, which in total makes 250 meters away.


----------



## ufonut

It's costly and time consuming, probably another 3-5 years will be wasted on project design, property acquisition, archeology etc.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

lotrfan55345 said:


> Is it hard to re-route it?


This would be my suggestion;


----------



## Rebasepoiss

^And they say western-media is objective....


----------



## AUchamps

Chris1491 said:


> Nah it's just our leftist media.
> 
> I took this pic today of a Dutch news paper called NRC Next.
> Some article about Poland in the Mazuria area (former Prussia).
> And this is how they display Poland;


And we portray Mexico in the same way, saying that those that are wealthy and rich represent the 1-2% at the top while everyone else is just "getting by" relative to American standards.

See? Poland is being treated in the same light.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Rebasepoiss said:


> ^And they say western-media is objective....


That's a good laugh. 

No, our media sets things in only one light. Like there have to be a motorway widened, they let a pro-guy say three words about it, and then a complete interview with some environmentalist complaining about air quality and other stuff. 

It's not that they tell lies, but they only view it from one side, the side they like it to be seen. There are actually very few rightwing or even center media, and if they write something, the other media always says it's bullshit because some rightwing newspaper wrote it. 

So don't pay much attention to Dutch media...


----------



## Rebasepoiss

ufonut said:


> It's costly and time consuming, probably another 3-5 years will be wasted on project design, property acquisition, archeology etc.


SO WHAT? People have fucked up the planet quite a lot so let's save the nature whereever we can save it.....3-5 years and some money is nothing compared to the damage the current route causes to the nature.


----------



## ufonut

Rebasepoiss said:


> SO WHAT? People have fucked up the planet quite a lot so let's save the nature whereever we can save it.....3-5 years and some money is nothing compared to the damage the current route causes to the nature.


I agree but tell that to the people who live there in constant fear of being killed by rampaging 18 wheelers from Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia passing through the very city centre.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ My alternative as posted above would take all that traffic out of Augustów. What's left of traffic is only traffic from a few villages between Augustów and Suwałki, that can't be much. After the S8 is completed, they could degradate the DK8 to a DW-road. 

But i agree there has to be a motorway there, virtually all transittraffic from the Baltics to the rest of Europe travels through Augustów.


----------



## smar

^^ WTF? Where's the moderator?
This topic is about polish motorways...


----------



## Mateusz

Yes and now typical Dutchman after reading this atricle, will think this is the how Poland looks...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

smar said:


> ^^ WTF? Where's the moderator?
> This topic is about polish motorways...


Post some pics :cheers: 

Well i have a question. I saw a lot of photoseries of the DK4, all signing Korczowa and stuff, but do you sign any Ukranian cities at all? Like L'viv (Lwów).


----------



## fredru$

MateoW said:


> Yes and now typical Dutchman after reading this atricle, will think this is the how Poland looks...


*I wouldn't give a shit about, what tipical Dutchman thinks how Poland looks like* 



.


----------



## fredru$

*Latest pics of construction of northern stretch of A-1


Photos by Papaj
1. old run of rd. DW226









2. Entrance in direction of Pruszcz Gd.









3. 









4. Interestin solution. That's temporary anyway, till grass gets stong roots 









5. View from viaduct WD2 in dir. WD1 i S6.









6. Dark clouds are gethering over A1 .









7. Congestion of trucks...









8. Entrance on circle in dir. of Pruszcz Gd.









9.









10. WD3 









11. Open WD2.









12.









13. WD3.









14. Again WD2.









15. 









16. About finished WD3.









17. Entrance on WD3 from Wojanow...









18. ... and from Rusocin.









19. WA4 in Zukczyn.









20. 









21.









22. View to the south.









23.*











.


----------



## Mateusz

Great pics ! I believe they will end on time.


----------



## smar

Chris1491 said:


> Well i have a question. I saw a lot of photoseries of the DK4, all signing Korczowa and stuff, but do you sign any Ukranian cities at all? Like L'viv (Lwów).


near border only



> Post some pics :cheers:


ok 
expressway S11 (after 2013...)









Some pictures near Poznań:


----------



## Miguel_PL

Chris1491 said:


> Post some pics :cheers:
> 
> Well i have a question. I saw a lot of photoseries of the DK4, all signing Korczowa and stuff, but do you sign any Ukranian cities at all? Like L'viv (Lwów).


Yes, we sign Ukrainian cities. Especially Lwów (Lviv). Its name is written on all signs from Rzeszów to the border. 

I live in Sanok (Podkarpacie) and on our signs is Sambor.


----------



## Urban Legend

great roads!
how fast can you drive on A1, A2 ?


----------



## fredru$

^^ *130 km/h In Poland there's max. speed limit of 130km/h on motorways and 110km/h on expressways.*


.


----------



## Maxx☢Power

AUchamps said:


> Elaborate. Both are prime examples of cheap labor that are willing to travel to areas where they may receive a slightly hostile response for "taking our jobs".





ufonut said:


> ...


^^ What he said, basically. This isn't 1985 (which is a _long_ time ago by European standards). While I'm no expert on Mexico-US relations and the immigration "problem" there, the images that come to mind are those of droves of people sneaking in illegally by crossing deserts and border fences and other not-so-safe ways, and that's more comparable to Africa->Europe migration IMO (which is probably even worse, it's rightly been called "Europe's shame"). That's not to say anything bad about Mexico or Africa, the difference is mostly one of trust and access and not differences.

Ok, back to motorways, I don't mean to hijack the thread here.


----------



## Maxx☢Power

Rebasepoiss said:


> SO WHAT? People have fucked up the planet quite a lot so let's save the nature whereever we can save it.....3-5 years and some money is nothing compared to the damage the current route causes to the nature.


You've got a point there. Building motorways is probably a lot easier than building a primeval forest.


----------



## dawid_silesia

A4 from national road 46 (DK46) to Gliwice










10 km to MOP Przysiecz






MOP Przysiecz




Bridge on Odra (speed limit 110km/h)






10 km to MOP Góra Św. Anny




2x3










MOP Góra Św. Anny










Direction Wrocław


Direction Katowice












MOP Chechło


----------



## delfin_pl

A1 construction by Papaj


----------



## Mateusz

Nice pics, construction of A1 is pretty advanced.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

When will the first section south of Gdansk open? And when will the A1 all the way be complete to Lodz?


----------



## Lankosher

Chris1491 said:


> When will the first section south of Gdansk open? And when will the A1 all the way be complete to Lodz?


The whole section from Gdansk to Nowe Marzy (90 km) will be open to traffic in about a year time. Construction of further section from Nowe Marzy to Toruń will begin in second half of next year. In fact the middle section from Torun to Lodz is still under planning phase so it seems to have been completed by 2012.


----------



## ufonut

I think anything can happen here considering that the minister of infrastructure has promised that the whole A1 will be completed by the end of 2010.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What font do they use on Polish signs?


----------



## Dantiscum

Few more photos from the construction's site of the first part of the A1 from Gdansk due south:


----------



## Krzyżak

Sławek;14612562 said:


> On A4 from Wroclaw up to Opole, I drove 210km/h


stupidity :bash:


----------



## Krzyżak

Chris1491 said:


> What font do they use on Polish signs?


*20 th Century Semi Bold* it,s similar. Unfortunately, only similar. 


Exact exemplar is here:
http://sipdata-abc.lex.pl/dane/dzienniki/03/d03l81/zal2_9.pdf


----------



## MarcinK

A4 under construction (Kraków-Szarów)- a lot of new pics on this page:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=126655&page=41


----------



## radi6404

Polish motorways somehow look pretty narrow, isn´t it?


----------



## tore

radi6404 said:


> Polish motorways somehow look pretty narrow, isn´t it?


You reckon? I think it's nothing wrong with two lanes only each direction as long as they can carry the traffic. There is a reserve for future third lane designed wherever trafic surveys results indicates increase of traffic volume in future. Btw, two-lane motorways are nothing odd all around the world.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> *Warsaw bridge contract*
> 
> SYSTRA signed a contract worth around €3 million with the Highways Department of the City of Warsaw, Poland. The contract is to draw up designs for the Krasinski Bridge, from basic design to the call for tenders. The 280m long bridge, which will span the Vistula River, is designed to carry a four-lane highway and two tramway lines.


Warszawa will have a nice road network in the future.


----------



## volkhen

Amazing shots of Polish Highway A1 (Gdansk-Grudziadz)


----------



## geogregor

radi6404 said:


> Polish motorways somehow look pretty narrow, isn´t it?


They are the same as your beloved Struma Motorway :lol:


----------



## SilesianSkyscraper

Wikipedia said that DTŚ (Drogowa Trasa Średnicowa) in Upper Silesia Metropolitan Region is a city higway. So I take some pictures of it:
When it was build:








And now:




































[/QUOTE]


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice video, did you take it yourself?

Where is this video taken exactly? Katowice?


----------



## SilesianSkyscraper

Yes, in Katowice but I don't know who did it. And see film from my signature, it is about DTŚ and A4 highway too.


----------



## wyqtor

SilesianSkyscraper said:


>


This is very good urban planning, so green... I like it! This is one of the few things for which the Polish communists deserve praise. Unfortunately here in Romania they were stupid in this regard also.

Once they will renovate the commieblocks it will look even better than most Western European cities.


----------



## x-type

Arbais said:


> It'll be 2000 kilometers of motorways and 5200 km of expressways.
> 
> This is expressway*:
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/S1_1.JPG/1024px-S1_1.JPG
> 
> And this is motorway:
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...5_1026.jpg/1024px-A4_Krakow_20070815_1026.jpg
> 
> * But we've got 2 versions of expressways: 2 lanes and 1 lane


these photos aren't too representative because not all the motorways will be 3+3, and here are not visible expressways' shoulders, which are more narrow than motorways'


----------



## Nephasto

I think that as the differences between 2x2 expressway and 2x2 motorway are so small they should just make 1 category.
Dividing it in motorways and expressways is just confusing to people I think. The quallity is almost the same I think. There can be expressways that are better than motorways I guess. Unless the geometrica carachteristics of expressways are significantly inferior.
Because the diference in width of lanes not something relevant. 3.5m to 3.75m?! Who even noticies that?
And if they want 3.75m, than make the expressways also with 3.75m... it's not like that's going to make a significant diference in costs.


----------



## x-type

well, it depends. some countries have expressways with quite wide shoulders (although more narrow than motorways) - Poland, Czech. Rep., Austria (actually, austrian are often the same as motorways, e.g. S1, S6), but some don't have shoulders at all (Slovenia, Croatia, Italy) and there is difference more obvious


----------



## ChrisZwolle

People tend to accept expressways more than motorways. If a project can be speeded up that way several years, i think they should build the expressway, and maybe upgrade afterwards. 

Sometimes procedures and objection from people to motorways can be many years long, they are talking about 40 years about the construction of some (short) motorways in the Netherlands. 

Especially when countries need to speed up their development, they can't wait for all motorway-procedures, so they might construct an expressway.


----------



## x-type

Chriszwolle said:


> Especially when countries need to speed up their development, they can't wait for all motorway-procedures, so they might construct an expressway.


but i'm not sure that there is some large difference between time needed to build motorway or equivalent expressway (at the same place). today's expressqays are on high levels, too. they have all what motorways have, except SOS lanes, and perhaps curves could be with smaller radius, but those things don't affect to lenght of building time significant


----------



## drowningman666

for people the biggest difference is that the all motorways in poland will be a toll routes and the expressway are going to be free routes, and that's the reason why most of the new routes should be called an expressway


----------



## Zibou

drowningman666 said:


> for people the biggest difference is that the all motorways in poland will be a toll routes and the expressway are going to be free routes, and that's the reason why most of the new routes should be called an expressway


And isn't the whole administration process shorter when a corridor is considered as expressway instead of motorway ? Expressway construction can also be extremely slower than motorways, since it's not financed by private companies but by the state (except for roads build with a Public-Private-Partnership). I know that in France expressways (voies express) are being constructed at a very slow pace due to the lack funding, while concessed motorways (autoroutes concédées) are build very quickly, once all studies are validated... Isn't the same thing going to happen in Poland ?


----------



## drowningman666

Zibou said:


> And isn't the whole administration process shorter when a corridor is considered as expressway instead of motorway ? Expressway construction can also be extremely slower than motorways, since it's not financed by private companies but by the state (except for roads build with a Public-Private-Partnership). I know that in France expressways (voies express) are being constructed at a very slow pace due to the lack funding, while concessed motorways (autoroutes concédées) are build very quickly, once all studies are validated... Isn't the same thing going to happen in Poland ?


yeah the construction of expressways is very slow now in poland because all the founds and administration is focused on those 3 motorways that we're building currently, with the public-private partnership in poland are some problems, the private investors demand sometimes too much money from the government and that's why there were so much issues with route A2 to the german border, also quality of some motorways in p-p partnership is very poor, i think after we will construct our motorways the pace of expressways constructing will be much faster, i'm not afraid about the money, i hope that eu founds will be involved


----------



## Mateusz

But we don't know yet ! It's possible that the expressways will be also toll in future... BTW This motorway, shown on picture, has parameters of expressway and is signed as motorway  Weird , but there is no very big difference.


----------



## drowningman666

MateoW said:


> But we don't know yet ! It's possible that the expressways will be also toll in future


but only dual carriageway ??


----------



## Mateusz

I think there will be no single carriageway as expressway in future, the will be upgraded. I think you can find it out in our polish sub forum


----------



## ChrisZwolle

MateoW said:


> I think you can find it out in our polish sub forum


Tak, but Polish is not an international language


----------



## Arbais

Some motorways, expressways and other main roads from Upper Silesia:


























































































​


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, those are very nice pics, but to be frank, they are showed tens of times


----------



## Mateusz

OK ! Now different 










This picture shows new part of Northern Bypass in my hometown Jelenia Góra  It was finished around 1999. It normal dual carriageway. It's on National Road DK3/E65


----------



## kokpit

How long is Polish Motorway and Expressway network (nowadays)?


----------



## Mateusz

1003 kilometres


----------



## kokpit

^exactly? So I guess we can expect huge expansion in next few years cause four times smaller Czech Rep has longer network currently (1009 km)


----------



## Mateusz

True, we will have a huge expansion. In next year will be finished about 262 kilometres of motorways and expressways. I will try to find in polish sub forum a list of what of what construction will be started in 2008


----------



## drowningman666

oh you've got quite nice bypass in jelenia gora, in opole our ringroad is only single carriageway with crapy pavement...


----------



## Raf11

I think you should show Chris the plan of future connection between A1 and A4 in Gliwice Sosnica. Quite nice - 3 level, and three roads crossing, not two.


----------



## dawid_silesia

^^ Gliwice Sośnica in 2010:





DK44 - national road 44


----------



## Mateusz

Looks very good, I have seen only map of Interchange Sośnica before.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interesting. It looks like this interchange will be very incomplete, some connecting roads only have a fly-over, instead of connection roads to the other motorways.


----------



## Raf11

Chriszwolle said:


> Interesting. It looks like this interchange will be very incomplete, some connecting roads only have a fly-over, instead of connection roads to the other motorways.


Yes. But THREE roads interchange. I am still thinking it was necessary. Wasn't it be able to be solved in better way ?

R.


----------



## ufonut

Speaking of interchanges. Here is one on the newly opened A1 south of Gdansk. Notice a very thin road-like path from SW corner of the picture going over the bridge and in NE direction. It is a walking path. Very cool.


----------



## .oreo.

MateoW said:


> Here is well known map from our polish subforum. It's up to date map of polish road infrastructure


So there is no motorway or even expressway to your capital? Why is that?


----------



## Raf11

.oreo. said:


> So there is no motorway or even expressway to your capital? Why is that?


It will be, but in longer term. We are building, take it easy.

But my question is: why you don't plan to build motorway South Poland - Budapest ? This is something we would need.

R.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Maybe because the High Tatra's are kind of in the way. Via the future D3 and D1 allows you to travel between Silesia and Budapest.


----------



## Raf11

Chriszwolle said:


> Maybe because the High Tatra's are kind of in the way. Via the future D3 and D1 allows you to travel between Silesia and Budapest.


The Tatra area is very small. I think it's more because of their Slovak priorities - roads West - East direction.

When we go south we have no alternative. Road to Bratislava isn't one of them.


----------



## Raf11

And I am not talking about Silesia only.

Try to find good way from Krakow to Budapest. You won't.
And I know what I am saying, I spent a lot of time in Krakow area.


----------



## ufonut

True but a road from zakopane to lysa polana (border PL - SK) will be widenened and repaved starting in early 2008. This will definately help with at least getting to the Slovak border in somewhat semi-confortable style.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think one day they will build a motorway from Kraków via Presov and Kosice to the Hungarian M3. 

But a straight motorway from Budapest to the north through Slovakia? I doubt it, it goes through very natural area's, like the low tatra, fatra, slovak paradise etc.


----------



## .oreo.

Raf11 said:


> It will be, but in longer term. We are building, take it easy.
> 
> But my question is: why you don't plan to build motorway South Poland - Budapest ? This is something we would need.
> 
> R.


Hmm...as Chriszwolle said there is D3 which is currently U/C and of course D1! Not to mention planned R3 and R4 that should be expressways.



Raf11 said:


> The Tatra area is very small. I think it's more because of their Slovak priorities - roads West - East direction.
> 
> When we go south we have no alternative. Road to Bratislava isn't one of them.





Raf11 said:


> And I am not talking about Silesia only.
> 
> Try to find good way from Krakow to Budapest. You won't.
> And I know what I am saying, I spent a lot of time in Krakow area.


Yes of course, priority is to connect West and East because of the economic situation in the East part of Slovakia that depend on proper connection with the other parts of the Slovakia.

Road to Bratislava isn´t one of them? There is D1 that joins North-West of Slovakia with Bratislava...


----------



## Raf11

Chriszwolle said:


> I think one day they will build a motorway from Kraków via Presov and Kosice to the Hungarian M3.
> 
> But a straight motorway from Budapest to the north through Slovakia? I doubt it, it goes through very natural area's, like the low tatra, fatra, slovak paradise etc.


You don't know what they are planning on D1 through Fatras on direction west - east. Two big tunnels 8-10km long every or so.


----------



## .oreo.

Anyway this might help you to imagine the situation:
http://www.highways.sk/


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I actually meant the area south of that. The area between Banska Bystrica and Poprad. 

But the best route is probably via Kraków - Ruzomberok - Banska Bystrica - Zvolen - Budapest


----------



## .oreo.

Chriszwolle said:


> I actually meant the area south of that. The area between Banska Bystrica and Poprad.
> 
> But the best route is probably via Kraków - Ruzomberok - Banska Bystrica - Zvolen - Budapest


Well, if you wanna a have a nice trip definitely, but I doubt that it´s the fastest one..


----------



## ChrisZwolle

i meant a possible route for a motorway


----------



## .oreo.

Chriszwolle said:


> i meant a possible route for a motorway


No, it wouldn´t be good idea because it´s very moutainious land and there will be R3 anyway so why build another one...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

.oreo. said:


> No, it wouldn´t be good idea because it´s very moutainious land and there will be R3 anyway so why build another one...


Yep, and that's why i said:



> But a straight motorway from Budapest to the north through Slovakia? I doubt it, it goes through very natural area's, like the low tatra, fatra, slovak paradise etc.


 so we have the same point of view there.


----------



## .oreo.

Chriszwolle said:


> so we have the same point of view there.


:cheers: That´s great!  I do hope to see this plans done in my lifetime..:lol:


----------



## Mateusz

Some things in Poland are weird, in every country, most of them, building motorways or expressways starts from capitals  Anyway, there are some dual carriageways around Warsaw


----------



## .oreo.

MateoW said:


> Some things in Poland are weird, in every country, most of them, building motorways or expressways starts from capitals  Anyway, there are some dual carriageways around Warsaw


I don´t wanna imagine those roads during the rush hour...or during the friday around 4-5 o´clock...


----------



## Mateusz

http://www.siskom.waw.pl/europa.htm

Look at this, maps of the road network of the bigger european cities, and at the end Warsaw


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A large number of motorway doesn't necessarily mean there is no congestion. Warszawa is probably as congested as Amsterdam, because most of Amsterdam's motorways are only 2x2 lanes at key points. 

The Madrid map is quite outdated, and the London map looks like to suggest that there are a lot of motorways, which there aren't.


----------



## Qwert

Chriszwolle said:


> I actually meant the area south of that. The area between Banska Bystrica and Poprad.
> 
> But the best route is probably via Kraków - Ruzomberok - Banska Bystrica - Zvolen - Budapest


Actually, there is planned expressway Kraków - Ružomberok - Banská Bystrica - Zvolen - Budapest. Here you can download map: http://upload.skvely.sk/0Fb1DXVAaw5Q7KlN3HGqiA/Mapa_dialnicnych_tunel--.pdf But, those plans are very messy, because there are planned two paralel expressways what is useless.


----------



## geogregor

Chriszwolle said:


> A large number of motorway doesn't necessarily mean there is no congestion. Warszawa is probably as congested as Amsterdam, because most of Amsterdam's motorways are only 2x2 lanes at key points.
> 
> The Madrid map is quite outdated, and the London map looks like to suggest that there are a lot of motorways, which there aren't.


There are just simplistic maps from some printed publications.
The point is that Warsaw is one of probably just few capital cities in Europe without connection to motorway network.
Usually most countries start constructions from capital cities.
Myself I don't complain because I’m from south and A4 motorway is far more important for me than connection with Warsaw 
At least you can’t blame politicians that they build roads for themselves around capital. They are unable to do even that in Poland. hno:


----------



## Mateusz

Warsaw will have an Express Ringroad, 85 km long. About 12 km of it exist already, but as National Road DK8/E67 and is dual carriage way and in future it will be expressway S8. 

Here picture of already existing 12 km section


----------



## Raf11

MateoW said:


> Warsaw will have an Express Ringroad, 85 km long. About 12 km of it exist already, but as National Road DK8/E67 and is dual carriage way and in future it will be expressway S8.


Well, but the answer is: we are building complex network covering whole country. There will be motorway to Warsaw, but in longer term. Whole project needs time. It's not as in China we can build 5000 km every year


----------



## Lankosher

ufonut said:


> True but a road from zakopane to lysa polana (border PL - SK) will be widenened and repaved starting in early 2008......


Is this information confirmed???? Can you provide an official source where you got this from???


----------



## Mateusz

Strange, I never heard about such road...


----------



## ufonut

igorlan said:


> Is this information confirmed???? Can you provide an official source where you got this from???


I think I was mistaken. It was DK7 Rabka - Chyzne (PL-SK border) instead - 35km upgrade.


----------



## Mateusz

Defintely, and then straight through Slovakia to hungarian border and then to Budapest.


----------



## Mateusz

So here you have the same map but with those 7000 kilometres of roads which you can see in my signature  Some roads and bypasses may look different, but this map give you idea how network will look like


----------



## lpioe

When do you think all of this will be finished?


----------



## Mateusz

I think about 2020, maybe around 2025


----------



## Bahnsteig4

Truly impressive.


----------



## Mateusz

True, this network will cover every voivodship in the counttry and I hope it will be impact for economic progress and civilisational advance


----------



## geogregor

MateoW said:


> I think about 2020, maybe around 2025


Sure, 2050, 2075 or 2890 is more likely :lol:


----------



## Mateusz

Oh come on... Bit more optimism  Poland is making progress every year, we have european funds, economy is growing


----------



## RawLee

MateoW said:


> I think about 2020, maybe around 2025


It was said by about 2010,all of our ~3000kms of motorways/expressways will be finished...now,3 years remaining,we're only 1/3 way through...


----------



## Mateusz

Many roads are setted as only ''after 2013'', so we can't be sure when it will be constructed, or even it will be constructed someday...


----------



## ChrisH

I can't believe all of those expressways will be built. Some of them are just to connect two small towns! Climate change and peak oil will probably hit just as the ribbon is cut on some of Poland's new roads...


----------



## Mateusz

WILL BE BUILT but we need time and changes, still


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ChrisH said:


> Climate change and peak oil will probably hit just as the ribbon is cut on some of Poland's new roads...


You don't think they will find another fuel source than fossil fuels?


----------



## Raf11

Some of them may somehow become motorways. I heard there was some political pressure on changing S8 from Wroclaw to Lodz to A8.

What will be final project ? Who knows.


----------



## x-type

i'm surprised that there is no planned motorway from Warszawa in direction Lithuania (Suwalki, Augustow). how strong traffic is at that route?


----------



## ChrisH

Chriszwolle said:


> You don't think they will find another fuel source than fossil fuels?


I hope so! I was being a little facetious, but compare the population density and road networks shown here with England's (or the Netherlands') and I think this proposal is very optimistic. Still, if they can build it all... :banana:


----------



## Mateusz

@x-type, there is planned second variant of expressway S8 ''Via Baltica'' from Ostrów Mazowiecka to Augustów by Łomża-Stwawiski-Szczuczyn-Rajgród. And first varianr of S8 from Ostrów Mazowicka to Augustów has to be as expressway S60, but it still plans, ideas of new government. However,this second variat is recommended by a specialists


----------



## x-type

is there a large traffic from Lithuania to Poland?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's the only freight route out of the Baltic States....


----------



## Mateusz

So ''Via Baltica'' is really important for Poland and other Baltic countries. And now, investitions which are predeicted to start in 2008.

A1 Bełk- Świerklany(15 km)
A1/A4/DK 44 Interchange Sośnica(2 km) 
S1 Pyrzowice - Podwarpie (10 km)
S1 Podwarpie-Dąbrowa Górnicza(5 km)
A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl(104 km)
A2 Bypass of Mińsk Mazowiecki (21 km)
S2 Southern Bypass of Warsaw (Konotopa - Airport)
S3 Szczecin - Pyrzyce, booked for 2007(26km)
S3 Gorzów Wlkp. - Zielona Góra
A4 Szarów- Tarnów (60 km)
S5 Stryszek - Białe Błota
A6 Szczecin(current S3,S6 - old german motorway)
S6 Bypass of Słupsk
S7 Skarżysko Kamienna - Kielce
S7 Elbląg - Kalsk
S7 Botewa - Bieżanów
A8 Motorway Bypass of Wrocław(35 km)
S8 Warsaw
S8 Wrocław - Oleśnica
S8 Oleśnica - Syców
S8 Salomea - Wolica
S10 bypass of Stargard Szczeciński(13 km)
S11 bypass of Kórnik (5 km)
S11 bypass of Ostrów Wielkopolski(6 km)
S17 Warszawa - Garwolin (45 km)
S17 Bypass of Tomaszów Lubelski (8 km)
A18 Second way
S1/69 Bypass of Bielsko Biała

by Patryjota, lkmiec, qqqq, Loan, inz_Krys, dominobb


----------



## Raf11

That's truth. It's important route and should be motorway. I don't know the traffic numbers for it, but I think there is enough political reasons to build it.

I anticipate, sooner or later, it will be the motorway.

But for now there are other priorities in Poland. First, to connect existing parts with West-European Network and next, building the two corridors East-West and one North-South.

We want to have the motorways done till Euro 2012 in PL and UA. Even that will be very hard to realize.


----------



## Raf11

MateoW said:


> So ''Via Baltica'' is really important for Poland and other Baltic countries. And now, investitions which are predeicted to start in 2008.
> 
> A4 Szarów- Tarnów (60 km)
> 
> by Patryjota, lkmiec, qqqq, Loan, inz_Krys, dominobb


A4 Szarow - Tarnow will start this year ? That's great!


----------



## Mateusz

We will have finished all motorways for Euro 2012 if everything will go ok


----------



## Czas na Żywiec

Raf11 said:


> A4 Szarow - Tarnow will start this year ? That's great!


Definitely good news! :cheers:

Any idea when A4 Wieliczka - Szarow will be finished and open?


----------



## Lankosher

Czas na Żywiec;17497515 said:


> ...Any idea when A4 Wieliczka - Szarow will be finished and open?


construction works are progressing awfully slow so I wouldn't expect it finished by mid of 2009.


----------



## Lankosher

MateoW said:


> We will have finished all motorways for Euro 2012 if everything will go ok


If everything *goes* ok, all motorways will have been finished by the day when EURO 2012 kicks off.


----------



## Mateusz

Here some pictures of renovated motorway A6/E28 near Szczecin.


----------



## delfin_pl

A1 highway near Gdansk 

by bird-dogging


----------



## wyqtor

The road to Swinoujscie is signed as an expressway in the pics above (S3, from what I can tell). I'm curious, is it just a placeholder or are parts actually constructed?

Also, I wonder how the city's name is actually pronounced!


----------



## Mateusz

No actually. Expressway S3 leads to Goleniów and then to Swinoujscie, National Road DK3/E65. Expressway S3 is planned there. Although some sections of S3 near Swinoujscie are under construction as far as I know.


----------



## Raf11

wyqtor said:


> Also, I wonder how the city's name is actually pronounced!


How to how ? In normal, simple way


----------



## Mateusz

Polish language, like other languages of the world


----------



## Majestic

Raf11 said:


> How to how ?


:rofl: That's what you get when you translate literally.


----------



## Raf11

Majestic said:


> :rofl: That's what you get when you translate literally.


Get lost ;P


----------



## Lankosher

Raf11 said:


> ..How to how..


WTF ??? :lol:


----------



## Mateusz

I don't get it also


----------



## Sagaris

For me, Swiecko - Nowy Tomysl is quite important. The ducks in power have kept this construction off for way too long.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A4 to Wroclaw before reconstruction;


----------



## Mateusz

Oh, Dear God.... I remember when I was first time on this motorway in 1999 :lol:


----------



## Verso

And this was drawn as motorway on all maps, and I thought how few motorways Poland had. How many kilometers of normal motorways did it really have then?


----------



## Arbais

Verso said:


> And this was drawn as motorway on all maps, and I thought how few motorways Poland had. How many kilometers of normal motorways did it really have then?


Poland is strange country - for example Drogowa Trasa Srednicowa, which have got 12 lanes isn't highway, but highway A4 between Katowice and Cracow which is everytime in renovation is highway. And "Gierkówka" in Upper Silesia is uncolised highway, three lanes and it isn't highway. 
This non-highways have got the same standard like motorway, but it was build by GZM or Silesian Voivodship, not by GDDKiA.


----------



## drowningman666

Arbais said:


> Poland is strange country - for example Drogowa Trasa Srednicowa, which have got 12 lanes isn't highway, but highway A4 between Katowice and Cracow which is everytime in renovation is highway. And "Gierkówka" in Upper Silesia is uncolised highway, three lanes and it isn't highway.
> This non-highways have got the same standard like motorway, but it was build by GZM or Silesian Voivodship, not by GDDKiA.


12 lanes, quite impressive, but where does DTS have those 12 lanes exactly ??


----------



## Arbais

drowningman666 said:


> 12 lanes, quite impressive, but where does DTS have those 12 lanes exactly ??


Near gen. Ziętka roundabout (ul. Chorzowska + DTS), crossing with Grumanna street, crossing with Sokolska street and Bracka interchange.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Is that here?


----------



## Mateusz

Someone asked about motorways near Warsaw.. Actually there are dual carriageways with colissional crossings around. Warsaw. Sory if I didn't mentioned all but I have highlighted those most important


----------



## Tom 958

"Colissional crossings"--- I like that.


----------



## Mateusz

Maybe but interchanges and junctions are more safe


----------



## ufonut

Arbais said:


> Poland is strange country - for example Drogowa Trasa Srednicowa, which have got 12 lanes isn't highway, but highway A4 between Katowice and Cracow which is everytime in renovation is highway. And "Gierkówka" in Upper Silesia is uncolised highway, three lanes and it isn't highway.
> This non-highways have got the same standard like motorway, but it was build by GZM or Silesian Voivodship, not by GDDKiA.


I think they have too many entrances/exists for them to be classified as highways.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Tom 958 said:


> "Colissional crossings"--- I like that.


I have never heard of that word. Babelfish can't make anything from it either.


----------



## asahi

what he meant was an "at-grade junction"
collisional crossing is a literal translation from Polish


----------



## Raf11

asahi said:


> what he meant was an "at-grade junction"
> collisional crossing is a literal translation from Polish


I think you have permanent problem with literal translations from Polish.

You should serve as online dictionary.


----------



## asahi

^^ What's your point? 
Do you mean I'm nitpicking? 
Well, I'm not if that's the case.


----------



## Mateusz

Sorry guys for my crap english. I will improve it. I'm sorry for it again.


----------



## asahi

Nothing to be sorry for 
Every thing's clear now, so let's get back to polish motorways:happy:


----------



## Mateusz

Drogowa Trasa Średnicowa should be at least expressway. For example S79, or DTŚ with ''car symbol'' in sign


----------



## Arbais

Chriszwolle said:


> ^^ Is that here?


Yes, but You can't see this lanes 



ufonut said:


> I think they have too many entrances/exists for them to be classified as highways.


One entrances for 3 km or less.



> Autostrada wg Rozporządzenia Ministra Transportu i Gospodarki Morskiej z dnia 2 marca 1999 – w sprawie warunków technicznych, jakim powinny odpowiadać drogi publiczne i ich usytuowanie powinna mieć powiązania z drogami głównymi i drogami wyższych klas. Odstępy między węzłami nie powinny być mniejsze niż 15 km, a w granicach lub sąsiedztwie dużego miasta lub zespołu miast nie mniejsze niż 5 km. W wyjątkowych sytuacjach, jeżeli potrzeby funkcjonalno-ruchowe takie odstępy uzasadniają, dopuszcza się pojedyncze odstępy między węzłami nie mniejsze niż 5 km i 3 km w granicach lub sąsiedztwie dużego miasta lub zespołu miast. Stosowanie zjazdów na autostradzie jest zabronione.


And DTS in in the city, so I think it can be one entrance for 3 km


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> I think they have too many entrances/exists for them to be classified as highways.


Strange reason to classify wether a road is motorway-grade or not. In this case, all urban American freeways wouldn't be at motorway-grade. I don't think any other country uses this kind of definition.


----------



## Mateusz

It's weird. It should be expressway if not motorway...


----------



## Arbais

Chriszwolle said:


> Strange reason to classify wether a road is motorway-grade or not. In this case, all urban American freeways wouldn't be at motorway-grade. I don't think any other country uses this kind of definition.


We know, but polish law is very stupid.


----------



## Mateusz

Maybe not stupid. Just needs to be impoved


----------



## mapman:cz

Chriszwolle said:


> Strange reason to classify wether a road is motorway-grade or not. In this case, all urban American freeways wouldn't be at motorway-grade. I don't think any other country uses this kind of definition.


Here, in the Czech Rep., we have also some kind of standard that regulates the distance between two exits on motorways resp. expressways. And when there is a need to build two exits on a shorter distance, "collector" lanes should be used. In case of that you can have one exit after another 

I think it's a "european" standard as well as the rule that the weaving sections on intersections (on cloverleafs and many others) should be built only on those collector lanes. Correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

In Amsterdam, the entrance lanes of exits immediatly go on in the exit lane of the next exit, though no parallel lanes are used. I don't think there is any standard in it, but in urban area's, it's always better to separate through traffic from local traffic.


----------



## Mateusz

Construction of A2 section (21 km), bypass of Mińsk Mazowiecki, will start probably at spring of 2009. It will be a paradox. Motorway constructed faster at east instead of form Łódź to Warsaw at west..


----------



## mapman:cz

Chriszwolle said:


> In Amsterdam, the entrance lanes of exits immediatly go on in the exit lane of the next exit, though no parallel lanes are used. I don't think there is any standard in it, but in urban area's, it's always better to separate through traffic from local traffic.


Yeah, it's slightly different on urban motorways. For instance, in Prague on City Ring (urban expressway) there are many exits on a short distance, but there is also a lack of hard shoulder and the speed is reduced to 80 resp. 100 km/h. On Outer Ring (R1) it would be different and collectors are built or at least planned very often. But it depends mainly on the type of junction.

I've seen many parallel lanes also in NL, I don't know if you have standard for that but I know we have to build it, naturally there could be exceptions. 

Nevertheless, we're getting bit OT in Polish mwy thread


----------



## mapman:cz

Back to Polish Network, I know how the current official plans look like. But are there any plans of A8 continuing from Wroclaw to CZ/PL border? Is there anything e.g. in land-use planning documents? 

I guess there are three possilbilities where to continue:
1) connect it to S3 (Lubawka)
2) build a new southern link around Klodzko and then connect it to R43 in CZ
or 
3) old corridor along DK8 to Kudowa and D11 near Jaromer

Any guess?


----------



## Mateusz

There was some pland co extend A8 from Wrocław to Lubawka or Bolków eventually but maybe they will realise for about 30 years :lol:


----------



## Arbais

A4 highway in Upper Silesia:























































And A4 highway in Lower Silesia:



















And A18 highway in Lower Silesia












A4 highway in 2001


----------



## Mateusz

A4 with those service lane in Upper Silesia looks absolutely great


----------



## PLH

Some new pics

These are from A1 Gdańsk - Czech border near Ostrava
Section Gdańsk - Swarożyn(25 km)





















The road ends as yet 25 km from Gdansk, but consecutive section is now U/C(ca 65 km)

--------------------------------------



Arbais said:


> And A18 highway in Lower Silesia


This place now looks pretty different:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=17816970&postcount=1562


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Are those yellow signs a new kind of signage, or a temporary situation?


----------



## PLH

^^ Temporary ones


----------



## PLH

Expressway S11 near Poznań:


----------



## Mateusz

Is that part of S11 from Poznań to Kórnik has now status of expressway and all signs are uncovered ?


----------



## frenchman

MateoW said:


> Is that part of S11 from Poznań to Kórnik has now status of expressway and all signs are uncovered ?


not yet. First part(9.1 kilometres) will be ready by the end of April 2008. Skanska is going to finish second part(Kórnik bypass- 5 km) in the middle of 2009.

here is a short film from december:




by Smar


----------



## PLH

Expressway S6(Gdańsk, Sopot and Gdynia bypass), continuation of A1 I've shown in my previous post:










1.	

2.	

3.	

4.	

5.	

6.	

7.	

8.	

9.	

10.	

*Author: adas*

More pics: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=9947403&postcount=73


----------



## Mateusz

But Threecity Byspass (S6) was constructed as expressway or just as a dual carriageway ?


----------



## PLH

^^ When it was being constructed(1973-1977) in Poland there were no such thing like expressway at all  All 2x2 and more were all called 'fast traffic roads'(or sth like this)

Now it is a proper expressway with 'max' 110 km/h


----------



## Mateusz

Oh yes... Expressways were introduced in 1985  You mean ''droga klasy GP''


----------



## PLH

^^ Exactly


----------



## Mateusz

But it was built with interchanges and junction or it was constructed later ?


----------



## PLH

^^ Already with junctions, yet some sections were 2x1 and almost all of them were rebuilt into 2x2 till 1989. Last 2x1 section was rebuilt during major overhaul of the bypass in years 2000-2002  At this time a few 2x3 sections appeared


----------



## dhlennon

nice looking new roads, glad our EU money is being spent well!!


----------



## Mateusz

PLH, 1889 ? Nice, first dual carriage way in the World probably :lol: I think a short section is (was) 1X2 near crossing with A1 and DK1


----------



## PLH

dhlennon said:


> nice looking new roads, glad our EU money is being spent well!!


This one is actually over 30 years old 



MateoW said:


> PLH, 1889 ?






MateoW said:


> NiceI think a short section is (was) 1X2 near crossing with A1 and DK1


It used to be 1x2, now whole S6 is 2x2 or 2x3


----------



## Arbais

Drogowa Trasa Średnicowa in Upper Silesia
Pictures was taking during the Christmas


----------



## Mateusz

Honestly it should be expressway...


----------



## Sponsor

MateoW said:


> Honestly it should be expressway...


Not in Poland


----------



## Verso

^ Oh yes, this is bad.


----------



## tomasso

MateoW said:


> What about A4 between Jedrzychowice and Krzyziwa ?


Timon Kruijk asked "what more?" 

Of course A4 (west section) will be also finished in 2008.


----------



## Zibou

Isn't it a typical 1940s Autobahn junction, which hasn't been much modified since ?


----------



## pmaciej7

^^ Right. This road was opened to traffic in 1937 nad reconstructed in 1996-1998 (km 3+827 to km 9+355) and 1997-1999 (km 9+355 to km 12+645). Exit is at km 9+185; 

-------------------

Who said there's no traffic on polish motorways :sly:?








:| :nono:


----------



## Mateusz

How old is that photo ?


----------



## pmaciej7

It was shot on thursday morning and posted one hour later.


----------



## Czas na Żywiec

Polish roads are pretty congested. That's why we need more motorways and less one lane roads that they like to call "highways."  Every year there are more and more cars and the same roads.


----------



## Timon91

^^Yes, that's true. Last year it took me an hour to get through Nowy Targ. The Zakopianska (S7) should really be finished soon, although I'm not sure if it was planned near Nowy Targ.


----------



## Mateusz

pmaciej7 said:


> ^^ Right. This road was opened to traffic in 1937 nad reconstructed in 1996-1998 (km 3+827 to km 9+355) and 1997-1999 (km 9+355 to km 12+645). Exit is at km 9+185;
> 
> -------------------
> 
> Who said there's no traffic on polish motorways :sly:?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :| :nono:


Where is it located ? I thought there are no more any sections with old german concrete... hno: Or is it somewhere on DK18, not repaved part ?


----------



## Timon91

^^No, I don't think so. The A18 is much worse and has clearly visible concrete slabs. Since pmaciej lives in Szczecin, I think it is the A6 or something (nice one for "Guess the highway"!)


----------



## pmaciej7

This is last concrete part of S3 near Szczecin - between interchanges Kijewo (A6/S3/DK10) and Rzęśnica (S3/DW142). 

Section marked with two blue dots, will be reconsructed in close future. Black dot means place, where the picture was shot.










Here you can find more photos of this section.

Now it is signed as S3, but after reconstruction and upgrade to motorway standard, it will be signed as A6.

And here you can find more photos by other users.


----------



## PLH

^^ Yes it is near Sczecin, but it's not A6, but S3/S6  

EDIT: As Maciek said


----------



## X236K

Do I understand well that:
- there are some highway streches built during WWII in Poland
- they're still in service and have not been repaved yet
??


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ yes there are some, but they have become very rare. The A4 was the most significant road who had these features.


----------



## X236K

^^ Surprising for me. Anyone could post some pictures/info of those ancient roads...?


----------



## Timon91

^^I thought there were some pictures posted before. I only made one pic driving there, see the top of page 24, I posted it there. I thought the roads were not laid during WWII, but before it, when the nazi's were building up an empire. I thought the A18 was laid in 1936 (and has obviously never been well-maintained)


----------



## PLH

X236K said:


> Do I understand well that:
> - there are some highway streches built during WWII in Poland
> - they're still in service and have not been repaved yet
> ??


I'd like to put the rocord straight:
1. *All* pre-war highways in Poland do have new road surface
2. Roads with pre-war concrete surface are either expressways(S3/S6 near Szczecin) or regular roads 
2. A18 was built in 1936 and will be marked as a highway when renovated(till 2010)


Streches of Reichsautobahnen in Poland:

1. A6 PL/D - Szczecin (renovated 1997 - 2007) 21 km, asphalt surface, service lane

2. S6/S3 near Szczecin (old concrete surface) 8 km, no service lane

3. DW142 near Szczecin and Stargard Szczeciński (old concrete surface) 38km 1x2, ca. 3 km 2x2

4. A4 Krzywa near Bolesławiec - Wrocław (renovated 2006-2007) 92 km, concrete surface, no service lane

5. S22 Elbląg - PL/RUS (now beind renovated till 2008) ca. 50 km, 1x2 + ca. 3 km 2x2, asphalt surface, service lane

6. DK/A 18 PL/D Olszyna - Krzywa(A4) (renovated till 2010), concrete surface(new on eastern lane built 2005), service lane on eastern lane, 18 km marked as highway


----------



## X236K

Thank you all for explanation!


----------



## ABRob

PLH said:


> 1. A6 PL/D - Szczecin (renovated 1997 - 2007) 21 km, asphalt surface, service lane
> 
> 2. S6/S3 near Szczecin (old concrete surface) 8 km, no service lane
> 
> 3. DW142 near Szczecin and Stargard Szczeciński (old concrete surface) 38km 1x2, ca. 3 km 2x2


Here are a lot of pictures and some Videos of this old Reichsautobahn called 'Berlinka':
http://phalc.autobahnen-europa.eu/RAB/Berlinka_bei_Stettin/index-Berlinka_bei_Stettin.html


----------



## geogregor

PLH said:


> 6. DK/A 18 PL/D Olszyna - Krzywa(A4) (renovated till 2010), concrete surface(new on eastern lane built 2005), service lane on eastern lane, 18 km marked as highway


Did you mean eastbound lane?
This motorway go from east to west so there are sothern and northern lane
or more correct tems of eastbound and westbound lanes.


----------



## PLH

double post


----------



## PLH

^^ Starting once again? 

Zgorzelec is quite a big city by the highway and Jędrzychowice in where the border checkpoint used to be. I know it's stupid but cannot help it

After the last highway section will be opened, new signs *may* indicate Dresden, not Jędrzychowice (hope so)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Dresden is signed on the DK 4 near Boleslawiec, i hope so too on the A4. (it should be from Wroclaw imo)


----------



## Timon91

Yeah, sorry for that double post. Anyway, great pics Chris. Since my Polish is not as good, thanks for posting them over here.


----------



## PLH

^^ If You'd like to, I can find and post many, many pics of A2


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are so many pics made of Polish motorways, i hope there will be one central website which contains all major roadpics of Poland.


----------



## Verso

There's probably every meter of Polish motorways photographed.


----------



## PLH

^^ More or less


----------



## Alex Von Königsberg

Poland should get rid of the orange background on its traffic signs. Orange makes it hard to see the red border and the black symbols inside the signs.


----------



## PLH

^^ I would say it looks like this only on pics. In real, it's legible


----------



## Qwert

PLH said:


> ^^ I would say it looks like this only on pics. In real, it's legible


But, anyway, why does Poland use orange background on the signs?


----------



## vlker

>


Why there is no emergency line?? In Czech republic it couldn't be categorized as Motorway/Highway


----------



## E2rdEm

vlker said:


> Why there is no emergency line??


Oh, my... Look into the FAQ...
Ooops. we don't have a FAQ about polish motorways  So I'll answer here:

This is a german-built autobahn. Built in 1936. During communist time it was never renovated. Ever. In 2004-2006 they finally renovated it - made a new pavement and renovated bridges. But to widen it to modern standards (I mean to add emergency lane), it would require reconstructing all the bridges and overpasses. There was not enogh money to do it. They only added short stretches of hard shoulder every few kms just to be OK with the regulations. There is a speed limit of 110 km/h where there is no shoulder.

I think it will have to do for the next 20 years. After that this part will definitely need to be rebuilt to 2x3, with total reconstruction of all bridges...


----------



## Timon91

Does anyone have pics of this section when it was not yet renovated?


----------



## PLH

^^ You mean the A4? If yes, there is no such section. Every km of A4 is renovated

Still, I can show You the S6 road, which has original 1937 road surface:


----------



## PLH

vlker said:


> Why there is no emergency line?? In Czech republic it couldn't be categorized as Motorway/Highway


It's an exception in Poland, as it it always was named a motway, as E2rdEm said




E2rdEm said:


> I think it will have to do for the next 20 years. After that this part will definitely need to be rebuilt to 2x3, with total reconstruction of all bridges...


No... In polish section *sli*, who has some connotations with GDDKiA(General Managemet of National Roads and Highways) said that it will occur much fater, even withing 3-5 years, as it will be rebiult into a toll-motorway, which requires building emergency laneand ofcoure widening all flyovers(recent ones are original ones and were only renovated in 2006)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The A4 will be tolled? It has a lot of exits between krzyzowa and Wroclaw.


----------



## PLH

^^ So most of them will be closed 

BTW ALL highways in Poland are to be tolled(here I belive there will be an electronic system)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Electronic. I hope "Europe" will be wise and make some kind of standardification for electronic tolling systems. You don't want in like 20 years to have 15 kinds of electronic boxes in your vehicle.


----------



## PLH

^^ Actually from what I've heard, this system is going to be the one used in the whole EU


----------



## Verso

Very important road sign...


----------



## Mateusz

It seems to be something like ''Keep out'' or something... anyway what is the relation of it to roads ?


----------



## Verso

^^ It's sign for mines.


----------



## PLH

MateoW said:


> anyway what is the relation of it to roads ?


I don't know either

Maybe because there are nummerous bullets, missiles and bombs found on the construction site of S3. Recently they've even found part of a russian tank - it was where the Russian army was heading to Berlin in 1945

-----------------------------

Here you can see an original russia mural from 1945 on A4 highway between Wrocław and Legnica - "We will put up standard of victory in Berlin!"


----------



## dArk AnGel

Verso said:


> Very important road sign...


Apparently it is if you have these signs :doh:


----------



## dArk AnGel

Aha i trzeba będzie niedługo zrobić mały update na mapce i zaznaczyć dwujezdniową obwodnicę Stargardu Szczecińskiego od węzła "Lipnik" do "Święte".Ciekawie kiedy zaczną budowę dalszej części S3 od Gorzowa Wlkp. do Nowej Soli.


----------



## PLH

^^ Jak się uporają z ekologami

PS Pisz po angielsku


----------



## PLH

This was found at the construction site of S3 near the bridgehead of minor road's viaduct over A6 near the A6/S3 interchange in depth of only 5-7 cm (!!): 

Pics taken by: *Delushi*


----------



## dArk AnGel

^^:no::no::no::goodnight Wow!Das sind aber viele bomben!PS.Ich kann nicht so gut englisch schreiben,wenn ich schon schreibe muss ich so ne halbe stunde im wörterbuch nach den begriffen suchen.Nächstes mal werde ich aber auf englisch schreiben,wirklich.Thja die preudo-ökologen,die nur schmiergeld verlangen sind schon ein problem,aber das wird unser staat schon meistern.Was mich nervt ist,dass deutschland sich in nicht-deutsche interesse voll negativ einmischt z.B. schlagen die hier in deutschland alarm,das autobahnen in Polen gebaut werden und das den natürlichen lebensraum zerstört,dabei hat deutschland nichts gegen seine eigene CO 2 emissionen und autobahnen.Sogar die pipeline die von russland gebaut wird und mit 200 tonnen chemikalien,durchpült wird,die dann in die Ostsee laufen ist erlaubt und steht nicht auf "der schwarzen eko-liste"Es fragt sich nur wieso NICHT?.Thja sowas nennt man Heuchlei.Next time i will write in english.


----------



## mickyboy

*Warsawa to Lublin on S17*

How is the standard of this expressway? I understand the journey time is 3hours is that likely?


----------



## Verso

dArk AnGel said:


> Apparently it is if you have these signs :doh:


First of all, that's not even a road sign, where do you see a road? Second thing, the only places with mines in ex-Yugoslavia are Bosnia-Herzegovina and very small part of Croatia.


----------



## PLH

mickyboy said:


> How is the standard of this expressway? I understand the journey time is 3hours is that likely?


The route is 161 km long, it's a regular 1x2 road with 12 km of 2x2 expressway. 

When going accordibg to speed limit, the journey will take like 2,5 - 3 hours or so, and when going on average polish speed 110 - 120 km/h it will be like 2 h (I don't know - I've never driven there)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

dArk AnGel said:


> Next time i will write in english.


Hast du kein Englisch gelernt auf Realschule oder Hauptschule?


----------



## dArk AnGel

Chriszwolle said:


> Hast du kein Englisch gelernt auf Realschule oder Hauptschule?


^^Du hast deine schule noch vergessen-sonderschule!Da muss ich dich leider enttäuschen,ich bin nähmlich auf dem gymnasium.Und habe etwas anderes als fremdsprache gewählt auf das ich mich konzentriere,englisch lerne ich nebenbei.


----------



## PLH

Lots of new pics of *S3 Szczecin - Gorzów Wielkopolski* were posted today:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=496160&page=44


----------



## Timon91

@PLH: my other two pics of Zagan:
View from my hotel room, the photo is taken over the roundabout, so to say. The red taxi is driving on it. The sign from the other thread is not visible over here, but it stands at the other side of the bridge (Bobr river):









View of the (very ugly) hotel, with the roundabout in front:









Unfortunately I don't have any more pics. I just stayed here for one night as a place to stay in the middle between the Netherlands and my holiday destination Martin, in Slovakia


----------



## PLH

Timon Kruijk said:


> Unfortunately I don't have any more pics. I just stayed here for one night as a place to stay in the middle between the Netherlands and my holiday destination Martin, in Slovakia


Have You taken any pics of A18 and A4 while being in Poland?
I'm especially interested in A18


----------



## Timon91

Yes, I've got one of the A18, which I have already posted a few times, and I have a few of the A4, which are also already posted. I wished to make a few more of the A18, but on day 1 I forgot (driving to Zagan), and on day 2 (driving to Slovakia) the sun was shining straight into the car, so that would have given very bad pics. 
But especially for you here is my private collection of Polish road pics again:

Border near Forst (German side):









A18, only a few hundred meter from the border:









A4 between Wroclaw and Opole (don't know exactly where):









On my way back from Kraków driving to Oswiecim, some roadworks:









When I got back on the A4 (next day):









Some road sign on the A4:









Another road sign on the A4:









Then we left the highway near Opole, to visit some friends near Klodzko, this is a road (don't know the number) between Opole and Nysa:









"Wypadki" and "Koleiny" signs:

















Traffic jams when heading to Görlitz (damn traffic lights hno. I hope the A4 will really be finished on time!









Border with Germany (Jedrzychowice):









Hope you like it :cheers:


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## PLH

> Then we left the highway near Opole, to visit some friends near Klodzko, this is a road (don't know the number) between Opole and Nysa:


It's DK 46


"Wypadki" and "Koleiny" signs:









Actually this trinity of signs means "end of ruts" (Koniec = end) and the warning sign(!) is utterly redundand. It's also incomprehensible for foreigners - the rut sign should be crossed




> Traffic jams when heading to Görlitz (damn traffic lights ). I hope the A4 will really be finished on time!


Sure it will - but we still don't know when - it's either end 2008 or geginnig 2009




> Hope you like it


Sure! kay:


----------



## PLH

I'd like to ask You, Timon Kruijk, and other non-polish forumers that have ever visited Poland a few questions as a kind of a syrvey:

1. Do You always travel according to speed limit or not?(if so, then how fast?)
2. What's Your opinion of polish drivers in general?


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## Mateusz

Why they just don't build 'T' shaped interchange ?


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## Fabisala

those are the best motorways of the world


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## PLH

MateoW said:


> Why they just don't build 'T' shaped interchange ?


You mean a Dreieck? If so, it is in order to make free flow of cars on A4 highway. In case of Dreieck people driving A4 would have to slow down from 130 to around 80


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## Mr. Karatchan

Fabisala said:


> those are the best motorways of the world


Si, me gusta tambien.


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## PLH

^^ Pero yo opino que en España las autovias son más buenas que en Polonia


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## PLH

S1 Bielsko - Biała interchange in 1970's(or 1960's??):




















Street in Bielsko - Biała(around 1970's)


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## Mateusz

These pictures would be great for thread in our polish sub forum, thread about roads from communism times


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## delfin_pl

Fabisala said:


> those are the best motorways of the world


what did you smoke? I want it!


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## PLH

^^ If you take only quality into account, so Polish highways are good. maybe not the bet, but good


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## Mateusz

PLH said:


> ^^ If you take only quality into account, so Polish highways are good. maybe not the bet, but good


Quality, not quantity :lol:


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## Arans

AUTOSTRADA A4 IN SOUTH POLAND


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## PLH

^^ IMO one of the best in Poland




MateoW said:


> Quality, not quantity :lol:


Yeah


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## Arans

little more picture A4

near Katowice town




























close Krakow


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## ChrisZwolle

The Polish countryside reminds me a lot of the French countryside


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## PLH

^^


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## bebe.2006

How about some pics from very first section of expresway S19, the 6,6 km long bypass of the town Międzyrzec Podlaski? This section is at first built half-profile. It is due to be opened in few weeks. Międzyrzec Podlaski lies on the crossing of the roads DK19 and DK2, approximately 100 km east of Warszawa.

S19 graphics by wikipedia:











ikrys said:


>





ikrys said:


>





ikrys said:


>


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## AUchamps

MateoW said:


> These pictures would be great for thread in our polish sub forum, thread about roads from communism times


After looking at those pictures, there's no denying that Capitalism = best roads for the long haul.


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## PLH

^^ Yeah, but in the meanwhile they demolished lot's of old city buildings(in Bielsko Biała case also tram lines)


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## AUchamps

PLH said:


> ^^ Yeah, but in the meanwhile they demolished lot's of old city buildings(in Bielsko Biała case also tram lines)


How many of those buildings were commie blocs or commie era buildings?


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## PLH

^^ Almost neither of them


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## AUchamps

PLH said:


> ^^ Almost neither of them


Well that sucks. Seem that if anything, it's what was built between 1939 and 1989 that should be torn down. (not like anything good happened to Poland during that time).


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## PLH

^^ I wouldn't put it like this - some, SOME ideas that formed between 1945 and 1989 are worth protection, but IMO f.eg all these dreadful blocks should have been blown away



AUchamps said:


> not like anything good happened to Poland during that time


Considerably 


Mostly because they ruined polish architecture and polish cities, I CANNOT and will NEVER forgive communists...NEVER


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## AUchamps

PLH said:


> ^^ I wouldn't put it like this - some, SOME ideas that formed between 1945 and 1989 are worth protection, but IMO f.eg all these dreadful blocks should have been blown away
> 
> 
> 
> Considerably
> 
> 
> Mostly because they ruined polish architecture and polish cities, I CANNOT and will NEVER forgive communists...NEVER


Well, to be fair Hitler did start the shitfest when he crossed that border, then Stalin and all the folks from Moscow went and suppressed you guys after the war so that you couldn't properly develop as Poland was intended.

Thank God for the Pope and the Mustache'd Man, that's all I can say.


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## PLH

AUchamps said:


> Mustache'd Man


You mean Lech Wałęsa, right?


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## AUchamps

PLH said:


> You mean Lech Wałęsa, right?


The one and only. One of the many Freedom Fighters your nation had.


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## Arbais

Main road nr 81 Katowice - Ustroń (Silesian Voivodship). Two lanes, but no highway (this road have got crossings, not interchanges). This road is mainly for tourist from Upper Silesian Metropolitan Region, which comes to Ustroń (Beskidy mountains) for summer and winter holidays












































































































Ujek z Nimiec (uncle from Germany in Silesian)


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## PLH

^^ It's pretty well maintained I must say

BTW Referring to discusion on previous pages, _this_ road is called Gierkówka


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## Arbais

PLH said:


> ^^ It's pretty well maintained I must say
> 
> BTW Referring to discusion on previous pages, _this_ road is called Gierkówka


_Gierkówka_ is from Warsaw to Katowice and _Wiślanka_ is from Katowice to Ustroń.


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## PLH

^^ Oh, I know that these definitions changed a little, but I meant the road build for Edward Gierek, from Warsaw to his summer villa in Ustroń


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## Arbais

^^ Yes 

And three pics of expressway S1 Bielsko-Biała - Cieszyn (border with Czech Republic)


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## Rusonaldo

on nie z niemiec tylko z czech


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## mgk920

Arbais said:


> Main road nr 81 Katowice - Ustroń (Silesian Voivodship). Two lanes, but no highway (this road have got crossings, not interchanges). This road is mainly for tourist from Upper Silesian Metropolitan Region, which comes to Ustroń (Beskidy mountains) for summer and winter holidays
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [major snippage]


Another pre-WWII Reichsautobahn?

Mike


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## PLH

^^ @ Rusonaldo 

Does anyone here know anything about this viaduct over Olza river? Is it going to have his brother biuld? (Now it is 1x3 or if You prefer 1x(2+1))


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## mgk920

Chriszwolle said:


> The Polish countryside reminds me a lot of the French countryside


Heck, and I've mentioned it before in this forvm, that Polish countryside looks a LOT like Wisconsin!

:cheers1:

Mike


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## PLH

mgk920 said:


> Another pre-WWII Reichsautobahn?
> 
> Mike


No! It was built in late 1970's

-----------------------------

Check this and this:










__ half - profile Reichsautobahn
*_* full - profile Reichsautobahn

Thanks goes to *bartosz_berlinka* for this map


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## 1000city

Arbais said:


> Ujek z Nimiec (uncle from Germany in Silesian)


Te, chopie! To niy jes ujek z Nimiec ino Pepik! :lol:

Czech plates, not german.


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## Mateusz

Is that Prague plate ?


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## Arbais

1000city said:


> Te, chopie! To niy jes ujek z Nimiec ino Pepik! :lol:
> 
> Czech plates, not german.


Rychtig!
Czechs, from where is this car?


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## 1000city

"Moravskoslezský kraj" (Moravian-Silesian state) with capitol in Ostrava - sth. like our voivodsips. So this is some Silesian too, but czech one


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## PLH

*A4 Zgorzelec(Görlitz) - Krzyżowa

by WaSzkaSC*


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## Mateusz

1000city said:


> "Moravskoslezský kraj" (Moravian-Silesian state) with capitol in Ostrava - sth. like our voivodsips. So this is some Silesian too, but czech one


Notw the number of your post in the topic ^^


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## bebe.2006

Apropos Silesia: here are a few pics of the expresway S69 from Polish subforum. The road should connect Silesia with Slovakia (in Slovakia the motorway D3 to the city Zylina).

Graphics of the S69 (48 km) by wikipedia:









The road is built both in Poland and Slovakia at first half-profile.

Pics from finished sections in Poland:

by GDDKiA (Jaro25):




































On the SK/PL border:

by SFK:



























by WITEKF:


















And D3 in Slovakia:
by www.highways.sk :









by Jamar:


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## PLH

*Warsaw - Siekierkowski Brigde
by kosztek

Part of Warsaw inner-city bypass*


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## Arbais

bebe.2006 said:


> Apropos Silesia: here are a few pics of the expresway S69 from Polish subforum. The road should connect Silesia with Slovakia (in Slovakia the motorway D3 to the city Zylina).


This is Lesser Poland, not Silesia. It's only Silesian Voivodship, but this land is a part of Lesser Poland  Only few kilometers near Bielsko-Biała are in Silesia.


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## bebe.2006

^^But S69 connects the centre of Silesia with Slovakia, though it goes through Lesser Poland.
S7 connnects the capitol of Lesser Poland Krakow with Slovakia.


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## mgk920

You most certainly have an active graffiti artist community there in Warsaw, don't you?

:yes: kay: :wink2:

:runaway:

Mike


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## PLH

^^ Not only there :bash:


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## PLH

*Gdynia - Kwiatkowskiego Route
by tomaso_gda

Connection between S6 expressway and Gdynia harbor*











































































































































*by Dredziu*










*by Michał R.*


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## Tom 958

mgk920 said:


> You most certainly have an active graffiti artist community there in Warsaw, don't you?
> 
> :yes: kay: :wink2:
> 
> :runaway:
> 
> Mike


In this case ...









...the bridge is colorful but the graffiti isn't. I don't think I've ever seen that before, anywhere.


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## 1000city

Sławek;14612562 said:


> On A4 from Wroclaw up to Opole, I drove 210km/h


This is really good highway, and with a comfy car 200km/h is nothing special and it's safe. Germans know what I mean :lol: 160 is relaxing and 140 (most drivers go with this speed) seems slow, man can get sleepy  It's not the speed that makes problems on highways but disruptions of move (sudden braking, changing lanes etc.). In my metro area we got developed and efficient roads, expressway/highway in almost any direction, so I quite offen do up to 180 with my rubbish Lanos and it's not exiting when man gets used to it. What I found exiting was 200s on Gierkówka north of Katowice with Fiat Barchetta - very fun to drive toy on more demanding road. But still that's nothing. Once i rode Porsche Cayman - driver was moto journalist. He was doing 200 on empty but narrow two lane road in Warsaw's outskirts (I belive near Kawęczyn powerplant) with 90 degrees turn at the end. That was f...in crazy and a bit scary, but Porsche prooved to have superb brakes :cheers:


----------



## 1000city

SilesianSkyscraper said:


>





Chriszwolle said:


> ^^ If they replace the commieblocks, what WILL happen, because the more welfare people get, the less they want to live in a flat, then you might see some big urban sprawl too. Look at all those flats, they contain enough people for a huge suburb.


"Millenium settlement" - about 30 thousand inhabitants on 2 square kilometers. One of them is me, and I really enjoy this place. We offfen call it 1000-city, that's where my nick come from. It's in the middle of 3 milion people metro area, but as You see it's green. So wealthy people that for some reason don't want to live in a house live here too - I got neigbours driving late model Audi, BMW, or Mercedes cars (imagine guy driving brand new MB CL living in commieblock ) And we got good roads around with virtually no t-jams, so it's still fun to own a car here :cheers:


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## 1000city

.oreo. said:


> So there is no motorway or even expressway to your capital? Why is that?


Beacause this is Poland - "nasze realia to anomalia" (our reality is abnormality) :lol: There are huge legal, political and god knows what other issues about highways/expressways in Warsaw area. It's common problem across whole Poland (except for Upper Silesia maybe) - there's money for road, but there's also some magic power that doesn't let them to be build in reasonable time. We're still in deep shit of soviet-alike burocracy.


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## 1000city

ChrisH said:


> I can't believe all of those expressways will be built. Some of them are just to connect two small towns! Climate change and peak oil will probably hit just as the ribbon is cut on some of Poland's new roads...


Well, perhaps all gonna be built, for sure most of them (just that nobody knows when ) They connect all major cities, not small towns (well, comparing to London even Warsaw and Katowice metro areas are small :lol. Most of all Poland is important transit country, we got trucks from allover Europe here (+ turkish, from Russian Federation etc.), and that's why building modern, efficient roads is major issue.


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## 1000city

Chriszwolle said:


> A4 to Wroclaw before reconstruction;



We used to call it "the longest stairway in Europe"

I remember an acident in mid 90s on that ruote. Opel Kadett lost one wheel (suspension didn't make it), rode into oposite direction carriageway (no crash barrier), and frontally hit Opel Astra - several people got killed hno:


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## 1000city

Arbais said:


> A4 highway in 2001


This is DTŚ on Chorzów/Swiętochłowice border, not A4.


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## 1000city

PLH said:


> This is a DK road (100km/h), it was intended to be the motorway when built in the 70's, but the construction was discontinued, and almost all interchanges do not have flyovers


Not exactly. Between Piotrków Trybunalski - Częstochowa it was ment to be highway, lanes are wide, curves are gentle, but they "forgot" to build flyovers. AFAIR it's "DK". Between Częstochowa and Sosnowiec its regular "DK" with a bit worse parameters, from Sosnowiec to Katowice it's "S86" (flyovers, tempolimit 110km/h), and south of Katowice it's "DK" again (good quality of pavement). Another part of Gierkówka is DK1/S1 (eastern ringroad of GOP), from Dąbrowa Górnicza to Tychy. That's better way when You go south from Warsaw, Łódź and want to bypass Katowice metro area.


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## 1000city

Adiks said:


> All great!! But seems like the black car is goin' to face another car


I don't think so. Seems like black car is on main carriageway (note sholuder on it's right), and the blue one is on service road.


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## lena5538

it looks like turkish roads. ive seen roads like that when i was in turkey!


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## PLH

^^ :sly: Which roads in Poland look like these in Turkey?


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## bebe.2006

Bypass of the town Płock (app.100 km nord-west of Warszawa) with a bridge on Wisła openeed in 2007. It's DK60 or 62:



travel.plock said:


>


by eirik :



























Invitation for opening party  :


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## PLH

Verso said:


> http://www.amzs.si/default.asp?podr... Poland the craze ended like 2 - 3 years ago.


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## PLH

*S22 Elbląg - PL/RUS

by bogusz00*

*Part of former Reichsautobahn Berlin - Stettin - Elbing - Königsberg*


Border crossing:































































towards Elbląg:































































mileage(in kilometers) should be 0 + 300 km



























brigde over Omaza river:



























border once again:









towards Elbląg:



























Do not concern people from SSC: 






















































To be continued


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## Mateusz

Very shiny crash barriers


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## Verso

^ Indeed. 



PLH said:


> I was surprised to see I understand like 90% ot this slovenian text


We're Slavs, aren't we?  I didn't post that link for you to read it, but I usually try to credit photos I post, although I doubt it's them who took the photo. Btw, I'm surprised the S22 is built so soon.


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## PLH

Verso said:


> We're Slavs, aren't we?


Sure, but I have greater problems with understanding Czech or Slovak texts



Verso said:


> I doubt it's them who took the photo.


Yeah, You can find it on offcial A1 site: http://www.autostradaa1.pl



Verso said:


> Btw, I'm surprised the S22 is built so soon.


I suppose it were Russians with their part of the road that made us speed up


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## Verso

PLH said:


> Yeah, You can find it on offcial A1 site: http://www.autostradaa1.pl


Ah... ok, at least they put that link there.



PLH said:


> I suppose it were Russians with their part of the road that made us speed up


Really? Russians are building motorway/expressway there too?


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## PLH

^^ Let's say they are reconstructing it

you must know the road was already built in half-profile in 1940's

*note: All pics are outdated*

border in 2004:









1930's:









2002:





































*All pics are taken from: www.berlinka.pcp.pl*


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## mgk920

IMHO, that old Reichsautobahn is one of the most fascinating roads ANYWHERE.

The high-resolution aerial images of it on Google Earth also show it in its pre-upgrades condition. VERY INTERESTING!

They really are building a PL-RU Schengen border checkpoint on it, too. Amazing.

:cheers1:

Mike


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## PLH

^^ there You are:

all pics by *pmaciej7*

DW 142 near Szczecin









purple - bridge over river Ina
blue - abandoned viaduct
smaller circle - viaduct over Autobahn
bugger one - viaduct over minor road


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## Verso

Those pics are interesting. It looks like in the middle of nowhere, except when I see that cute train.


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## PLH

^^ Here (the train - or commuter train more likely):


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## Verso

^ Hehe. Why didn't the traffic flow at least on one half of the old Reichs"autobahn"?


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## PLH

'Cause the bridges were demolished


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## Verso

And the road #54 already existed, so it was cheaper to just let it go?


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## PLH

^^ Yeah, particularly when you take into consideration that there was no border crosssing on the Autobahn


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## Verso

Ok, makes sense now.


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## dawid_silesia

Chriszwolle said:


> I often drive the A1 (E30) in the eastern part of the Netherlands, and the road is full of trucks and car trailers with second hand cars, but they do not have Polish plates, but Belarussian, Russian and Ukrainian plates.


hmm... A1 is E75
E30 is A2


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## Mateusz

dawid_silesia said:


> hmm... A1 is E75
> E30 is A2


He meant the A1 but in The Netherlands :lol::cheers:


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## dawid_silesia

MateoW said:


> He meant the A1 but in The Netherlands :lol::cheers:


:wallbash:


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## PLH

*A6/S3 Interchange

by pmaciej7*











See the 130 km/h sing below:
This part of the motorway is THE FIRST in Poland to have increased speed limit to 160 km/h :banana: But only 10 km of it


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## PLH

*A4 Wieliczka(Kraków) - Szarów

by kmotrzak*


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## Mateusz

So up to Bieżanów Interchange, motorway will be 3X3 ?


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## PLH

*2*x3 not 3x3!

Yes, it will


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## Mateusz

Oh sorry, a little mistake  Now I will remember... I have mistaken it with 3+3


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## Czas na Żywiec

The Krakow-Szarow section is just dragging on and on. At the rate they're going, it'll be about 2200 by the time they reach the Ukrainian border.


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## Mateusz

Czas na Żywiec;19448945 said:


> The Krakow-Szarow section is just dragging on and on. At the rate they're going, it'll be about 2200 by the time they reach the Ukrainian border.


That will be longest time of building one motorway section :lol:


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## PLH

^^ Explanation: 19,9 km of A4 have 2 year period for being build


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## Timon91

At least they've started (something we cannot say of the A2 Swiecko - Nowy Tomysl)


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## Mateusz

I remember when tey were saying that A2 Świecko-Nowy Tomyśl will be finished by the end of 2007. Oh yeah...


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## bebe.2006

Apropos started, three new sections of expressway S10 are scheduled to be started soon (Stargard, Wykroty, Bydgoszcz).

Grafics of S10 by wikipedia (460 km, 38 km existed):









The S10 expressway isn't the first priority. So the whole route will be maybe completed 2020.
Anyway, there are the pics of the still existed sections:

South of the town Torun ( in half-profile, 2005?):



VVacek said:


> No to moze kolejna porcja zdjęć z S10
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And the section between Szczecin and Sartgard (2004-2007- one setion in full- and one in half-profile):



maciek2000 said:


>





maciek2000 said:


>





mattin said:


> Before opening from a bicycle
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> Between WD-4 and WD-5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tuż przed WD-5 zaczynają się 2 jezdnie ale tylko na chwilę.
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> View from overfly WD-5 to old roud DK 10 in direction Stargardu.
> 
> 
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> 
> WD-5 with intersection Lipnik.





Melankolic said:


> The old section near Szczecin without shany crash-barriers
> 
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> 
> ^^ Before A6/S3
> 
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> ^^ DK10/DK3 together
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> ^^ W kierunku wylotowym mamy 3 pasy ruchu o dobrej nawierzchni, ograniczenie prędkości do 80km/h
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^ Jednak jezdnia w kierunku Szczecina ma 2 pasy
> 
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> New S10 section:
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> 
> Sory for quality, cellphone


----------



## PLH

Timon Kruijk said:


> At least they've started (something we cannot say of the A2 Swiecko - Nowy Tomysl)


Yes, but preparations for construction's start are in final stage



MateoW said:


> I remember when tey were saying that A2 Świecko-Nowy Tomyśl will be finished by the end of 2007. Oh yeah...


yeah, maybe it was like 4 years ago


----------



## Chris80678

*Construction of A21 from Nowy Tomysl to Swiecko to start in Sept 08 (or more likely 2009)*



PLH said:


> Yes, but preparations for construction's start are in final stage
> 
> Hopefully that means that construction will start in autumn (Sept) of this year or perhaps at the start of 2009 for an end date of 2010? banana:
> Trzciel urgently needs a motorway bypass anyway as the current E30
> still roars through the town, unlike Rzepin which thankfully avoids the traffic as the E30 goes well south of the town itself
> Let's not celebrate just yet as we shall let them extend the motorway from
> Nowy Tomysl to the E65 interchange at Jordanowo first! hno:
> As soon as anyone hears that building of the A2 from Nowy Tomysl to
> Swiecko is underway than let the rest of us know ^^
> 
> Chris


----------



## PLH

^^ I'd say the construction will start end 2008 and end 19 or 21 months later(standard for such roads)

You'd surely be informed about it


----------



## PLH

Part of interview with Cezary Grabarczyk, Minister of Infrastructure:



> W tym samym dniu, kiedy otwieraliśmy tę autostradę, osiągnęliśmy pierwsze porozumienie z koncesjonariuszem na autostradzie A2. Podpisaliśmy porozumienie o ustaleniach komercyjnych dla odcinka Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl. Prowadzimy negocjacje. Wojewodowie wydali już decyzje lokalizacyjne. Jesteśmy coraz bliżej rozpoczęcia inwestycji. Jeżeli wszystko dobrze pójdzie, to jeszcze w tym roku we wrześniu rozpocznie się budowa na tej autostradzie.


"In the same day we opened thin highway[A1], we reached an agreement with A2 licence owner[Autostrada Wielkopolska](...) Location decisions were issued by governors.(...)If everything goes OK, the construcion will start this year in September"


----------



## Mateusz

Chris80678 said:


> PLH said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but preparations for construction's start are in final stage
> 
> Hopefully that means that construction will start in autumn (Sept) of this year or perhaps at the start of 2009 for an end date of 2010? banana:
> Trzciel urgently needs a motorway bypass anyway as the current E30
> still roars through the town, unlike Rzepin which thankfully avoids the traffic as the E30 goes well south of the town itself
> Let's not celebrate just yet as we shall let them extend the motorway from
> Nowy Tomysl to the E65 interchange at Jordanowo first! hno:
> As soon as anyone hears that building of the A2 from Nowy Tomysl to
> Swiecko is underway than let the rest of us know ^^
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> They will build whole section, directly from Nowy Tomyśl to Świecko.
Click to expand...


----------



## PLH

^^ Yes, but we still do not know if they will open the highway in sections or not

Correct the quoting, I haven't written that

*\/* Just leave it


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## Mateusz

Sorry, PLH, but I don't know how and I am stuck with it.


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## PLH

*Kwiatkowskiego Route(connection to Gdynia)/S6 Interchange

by harthausen*

Towards Łódź:


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## Timon91

@PLH: where do you get all these pics from? Do you make them yourself?


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## PLH

^^  No, I take them from our polish subforum Infrastruktura Drogowa(Road Infrastructure)

I always write who took that pics, don't I?


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## ChrisZwolle

PLH said:


> ^^  No, I take them from our polish subforum Infrastruktura Drogowa(Road Infrastructure)
> 
> I always write who took that pics, don't I?


I usually check there from time to time, but it's hard to find good pics in those huge threads. Even the fotorelacje threads means a lot of browsing and searching. I think it's only easy to find thing if you are a regular constant reader there.


----------



## PLH

So that is why I'm posting them here so You can see what is happenig over there in Poland

*-----------------------*

and now sth _not_ from SSC

A recipe how to build an expressway:


We take regular 1x2 DK road
Build bypasses of bigger cities
Add 2nd line to existing road
Build flyovers
_Et voila!_

*S7 Warsaw - Radom
section Białobrzegi -Jedlińsk*

http://www.bialobrzegidk7.pl/lot.htm


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## Mateusz

But it will be not so great when expressways become eventually toll


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## PLH

^^ It is still distant future, then we will have electronic toll system(after 2011)


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## Timon91

Will the A4 eventually be entirely tolled? Since the Kraków-Katowice section is already tolled, I expected the whole A4 to be tolled.


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## PLH

^^ Are You really looking forward to it? 

Yes, EVENTUALLY all highways will be tolled(apart from A6 and A18)

Zgorzelec - Krzyżowa: in like 2-3(maybe later) years after opening
Krzyzowa - Wrocław: after annexation of emergency lane(together with 3rd lane) in 2 years(??)
Wrocław - Gliwice: in 22 months from now on

Kraków and Katowice/GOP bypasses are toll-free


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## Mateusz

Yes, it will be. All polish motorway will be toll, but I am not shure about A8...


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## Timon91

PLH said:


> ^^ Are You really looking forward to it?


Err, no.

What about the A8. Does it already exist as some Wroclaw bypass? And will it continue until the Czech Republic and Lodz in future? (sorry I forgot all those ')


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Tell me more about the widening of the A4 between Krzyżowa and Wrocław


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## PLH

^^ It will continue to LT border(passing by Łódź and Warsaw and CZ one, but not as a highway, but expressway

Only Wrocław bypass will be A standard

The S8 towards Łódź already exists: as Olesnica bypass(pics were already here so i won't post them again), between Warsaw and Wyszków and as Ostrów Mazowiecka bypass


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## Mateusz

Well... it looks like it will be required for couple of years. Bridges are from pre-war times, so thry will be needed to substitution by brand new ones.


----------



## PLH

Chriszwolle said:


> Tell me more about the widening of the A4 between Krzyżowa and Wrocław


Well, I do not know much, only that it will be rebuild into 2x3 + shoulders in "nearest future" - info from person connected with GDDKiA(Management of roads and highways)


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## ChrisZwolle

Does the Polish road authority conduct traffic counts, and are they available to the public?


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## Mateusz

Do you mean AADT ? I do not know. I wish to see such data.


----------



## aswnl

PLH said:


> *S22 Elbląg - PL/RUS
> 
> Part of former Reichsautobahn Berlin - Stettin - Elbing - Königsberg
> 
> Border crossing:
> 
> To be continued*


*Nice to see this part of the Berlinka is being under reconstruction, with a real border-crossing. In PL it still is a half-"autobahn" - good work you've never removed the overpasses. On the Russian side, however, it has some at-grade crossings, because the Soviets were "a bit careless". Will those be reinstated to grade-separated crossings ? 

And finally: what date is mentioned for the re-opening of this part of the S22 to Krolewiec ?*


----------



## Verso

PLH said:


>


You better watch yourself.  What car is this anyway? And where did you get www.verso.pl?


----------



## Mateusz

Verso said:


> You better watch yourself.  What car is this anyway? And where did you get www.verso.pl?


Deawoo Nubira


----------



## Verso

Right!


----------



## PLH

aswnl said:


> In PL it still is a half-"autobahn"


Last 2 km by the border will be 2x2, the traffic is too low to make it 2x2 as a whole



aswnl said:


> Will those[in Russia] be reinstated to grade-separated crossings ?


I do not think so - check GoogleEarth - all crossings are prepared to be non-separated 



aswnl said:


> what date is mentioned for the re-opening of this part of the S22 to Krolewiec ?


Well, polish part have some delay and I suppose it will be opened end 2008
I do not know nothing about russian part




Verso said:


> You better watch yourself.  What car is this anyway? And where did you get www.verso.pl?


Well, the site's name is a coincidence
It is devoted to personalized number plates


----------



## E2rdEm

Chriszwolle said:


> Does the Polish road authority conduct traffic counts,


Sure they do. Every 5 years.


Chriszwolle said:


> and are they available to the public?


Once I've tried to find them on official pages of GDDKiA, but could not.
Luckily, SISKOM, a non-government organization, saved the data on their pages: http://www.siskom.waw.pl/nauka-gpr.htm
Direct link to the map of traffic volumes for all national (DK) and provincial (DW) roads: http://www.siskom.waw.pl/nauka/gpr/sdr_krajowy_i_wojewodzki2005.pdf

GPR = Generalny pomiar ruchu = general traffic data collection
SDR = Średni dobowy ruch (pojazdów samochodowych) = AADT


----------



## Mateusz

Kotwa will be anchor


----------



## bebe.2006

Pictures of a new section of DTŚ [ Drogowa Trasa Średnicowa = "Road Tract Middle" ] (the east-west road link in Upper Silesia, between Katowice and Gliwice, marked as DK79 / DW 902). 

Originally posted by Martin 13:


















More pics in the thread http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=428549&page=85


----------



## geogregor

bebe.2006 said:


> [ Drogowa Trasa Średnicowa = "Road Tract Middle" ]


I would just say urban expressway. Eventually we can call it "DTS freeway" 

Or like in LA, beacouse road goes from Katowice towards Gliwice we can call it "Gliwice Freeway" (same like Santa Monica Freeway goes to Santa Monica) :nuts:


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## 1000city

I'd say "diametrical route"


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## Mateusz

As I said before, it should be expressway, it could be S79 or [Expressway symbol]DTŚ.


----------



## PLH

*A4 Zgorzelec - Krzyżowa

by 3,14saR*


----------



## Timon91

^^It's nice to see such updates. What month this year is the scheduled opening? I thought it was november, but I wasn't sure.


----------



## PLH

Yes, it *was* november indeed

But now appeared some delays and it will be somewhere beginning 2009
This section has also big problem with ecology and European Commissiongaah - it was designed not according to UE law(there were no alternative routes presented):no:
I hope this will not stop the works... It's probably too late to do so


----------



## Finne

S86 between Katowice and Sosnowiec, one of the most important roads in Upper Silesian Metropolitan Region and few shots from DK1 (Gierkówka) There are terrible traffic jams in rush hours on this road.


----------



## Mateusz

Is this possible to widen S86 2+2 sections ? They could also extend S86 to A4, then it would be Eastern Bypass of Katowice  I think


----------



## PLH

MateoW said:


> They could also extend S86 to A4


Well, there is an extension to A4, but a regular 2x2(2x3?) road with flyovers


----------



## 1000city

MateoW said:


> Is this possible to widen S86 2+2 sections ? They could also extend S86 to A4, then it would be Eastern Bypass of Katowice  I think


Widening would be difficult and actually I don't think it's necessary - t-jams occur by S86/A4 intersection or because of roadworks on wider sections, on 2+2 traffic is usually undisturbed. Modernization of S86/A4 intersection is in progress, and when finished it should fix t-jams problem in this area. 


 
Gonna look like this:



Eastern Bypass of Katowice allready exists as DK1/S1/E75 - 2+2/3+3 espressway, over 30 kms. The best way to avoid heavy traffic on S86 when Katowice or western part of metro area is not your destination:

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wschodnia_Obwodnica_GOP


----------



## Chris80678

*Great to see A4 Zgorzelec-Krzyzowa section going so well*

It's excellent to see the works on the A4 Zgorzelec-Krzyzowa section going so well, it actually looks like a proper motorway with concrete and shiny new crash barriers on some sections, within the next months I would hope that they would be getting towards completing the crucial Krzyzowa and Zgorzelec interchanges as they are most important junctions for this part of the A4 motorway


----------



## PLH

^^ Want more? 

*by 3,14saR*


----------



## Timon91

Nice to see this new pics. How many km of the A4 Krzywowa-Jedrzychowice has been surfaced right now?


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## X236K

^^ Nice detail, I have never seen it like this!


----------



## bebe.2006

Waiting for paint:



miras said:


> *18.04.2008*



more pics: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=19799855&postcount=2112


----------



## Bartek-Biber91

http://autostrada-a4.pl


----------



## Vagabond

Poland built 25 km motorway last year. It seems Poland has a long way to go before it modernize its transportation system. This country needs at least 4000 km motorway. It currently has about 300 km.


----------



## PLH

^^ WHAT??!!

I see you need some credible info...










*UNDER CONSTRUCTION:*



1. *Highways*: 

-A1 Tczew - Grudziądz.............................. 63,9 km.....11/2008 ................................................ Skanska, NDI www.a1.com.pl
-A1 Gliwice Sośnica - Bełk.......................... 15,4 km.....02/2009 ......................................................J&P Avax www.a1.sosnica-belk.pl/
-A1 Świerklany - Gorzyczki......................... 18,3 km.....12/2009..Alpine Mayreder, Alpine Bau (D), Alpine stavebni společnost (Cz) www.a1.swierklany-gorzyczki.pl
-A2 Stryków I - Stryków II...........................1,7 km.....12/2008.......................A2 [Warszawa], Kirchner (D) (PL)
-A4 Jędrzechowice/Zgorzelec-Wykroty......... 20,3 km.....09/2008 .....................DTP Terrassement, Bouygues, VSL www.zgorzelec-krzyzowa.pl 
-A4 Wykroty-Krzyżowa.............................. 29,4 km.....09/2008 ...................Strabag, Heilit+Woerner, Mota-Engil www.zgorzelec-krzyzowa.pl 
-A4 Kraków Wielicka-Szarów....................... 19,9 km.....04/2009 ...............DRAGADOS SA, Polimex – Mostostal SA www.wielicka-szarow.pl 

Together:................................................ *168,9 km**___________________________________*


2.1. *Expressways 2x2*:

-S3 etap I Szczecin (Klucz) - Pyrzyce.......... 28,2 km.....01/2008-02/2010..Hermann Kirchner, Max Bögl, Energopol Szcz., Josef Möbius www.szczecin-gorzow.pl
-S3 etap II Pyrzyce - Myślibórz-Renice......... 26,7 km.....10/2007-10/2009.................................... Budimex Dromex www.szczecin-gorzow.pl
-S3 etap III Myślibórz - Gorzów Wkp. .......... 26,7 km.....12/2007-01/2010................................... Berger Bau GmbH www.szczecin-gorzow.pl
-S7 obwodnica Płońska................................ 4,7 km.....11/2008................................................... Teerag-Asdag
-S7 obwodnica Grójca.................................. 8,3 km.....05/2008 ...............WPRD,PPRM, Mosty Lódz, Bilfinger Berger www.obwodnicagrojca.pl
-S7 Grójec – Białobrzegi ............................ 17,8 km.....05/2009................................ Drogbud & IMB-Podbeskidzie http://www.grojec-bialobrzegi.pl
-S7 Białobrzegi-Jedlińsk ............................. 15,4 km.....03/2008..............................Acciona, Mostostal Warszawa www.bialobrzegidk7.pl/
-S7 Węzeł Kielce Północ .............................. 7,3 km.....06/2009...........................................................Strabag
-S7 Zakopianka ... obwodnica Lubnia ............. 4,0 km.....04/2008..........................................NCC & Poldim Tarnów
-S8 Warszawa: Konotopa–Prymasa Tysiąclecia 10,4 km....01/2008-12/2010..Budimex Dromex, STRABAG, Mostostal W-wa, Warbud http://s8.konotopa-prymasa.pl
-S8 Radzymin - Wyszków ........................... 17,3 km.....12/2008................................WPRD & PPRM & Mosty Łódź www.radzymin-wyszkow.pl
-S8 obwodnica Wyszkowa .......................... 12,8 km.....09/2008.............................Budimex Dromex & Mosty Łódź www.radzymin-wyszkow.pl 
-S11 Poznań - Kórnik .................................. 9,1 km.....06/2007..............................................Skanska & Strada
-S11 obwodnica Kórnika................................ 5,0 km.....06/2009.....................................Skanska & COLAS Polska
-S12 most w Puławach.................................. 4,0 km.....04/2008..................Mosty Lódz & Herman Kichner & Vistal www.pulawymost.pl
-S22 Grzechotki-granica................................ 1,9 km.....01/2008.......................................Strabag & MSF & TGA www.elblag-grzechotki.pl 

TOGETHER:................................................... *199,6 km*


2.2. *Expressways 1x2*:

-S3 Miedzyzdroje.......................................... 3,0 km.......11/2007........................................................Herman
-S3 Obwodnica Nowej Soli............................. 15,0 km.......07/2008.........................PBK ABM&PRD Lubartów&PPRM
-S12 Puławy bez mostu.................................. 8,7 km.......04/2008..........................Mosty Łódź & Herman Kichner www.pulawymost.pl
-S17 obwodnica Hrebennego........................... 2,0 km.......01/2008..................................................MSF & TGA www.hrebenne.pl 
-S22 Elbląg-Chruściel.................................... 28,8 km.......05/2008....................................MSF & TGA & Warbud www.elblag-grzechotki.pl 
-S22 Chruściel - Maciejewo............................ 10,4 km.......09/2007......................................................Skanska www.elblag-grzechotki.pl 
-S22 Maciejewo-Grzechotki.............................. 9,5 km.......01/2008...................................Strabag & MSF & TGA www.elblag-grzechotki.pl 
-S69 Szare - Laliki, odcinek z tunelem ............... 2,7 km.......10/2009............................... Bogl a Krysl / .Doprastov
-S69 Szare - Laliki ......................................... 2,0 km ......10/2008 ...............................Bogl a Krysl / .Doprastov
-S69 Laliki-Zwardoń........................................ 1,8 km.......12/2008...................................Kirchner & Mosty Łódź

Together:...................................................... *83,9 km*

ALLTOGETHER U/C: 452,4 km

*IN OPERATION:*

3. *HIGHWAYS: *








- Gdańsk - Tczew......................................... 24,3 km







- Tuszyn - Piotrków Tryb................................ 17,5 km







- Nowy Tomyśl - Łódź................................... 252,2 km







- Krzywa - Kraków........................................ 363,0 km







- Jędrzychowice - Zgorzelec.............................. 1,8 km







- Kołbaskowo - Szczecin Kijewo ........................ 21,6 km







- Olszyna - Golnice-oznaczona jako DK18............ 68,4 km
(remont generalny jezdni południowej do 2010)







- Golnice - Krzywa......................................... 17,0 km

*Together:............................................................... 765,8 km*
*_______________________________*


*4.1. Expressways 2x2:*

-S1 dwie jezdnie w obrębie węzła Podwarpie .............. 1,5 km *
-S1 Dąbrowa Górnicza/Ząbkowice-Tychy.................. 30,2 km * 
-S1 Cieszyn - Bielsko-Biała..................................... 33,5 km
-S3 Goleniów-Szczecin.......................................... 28,3 km *
-S5 Bydgoszcz-Stryszek.......................................... 5,5 km
-S6 obwodnica Trójmiasta...................................... 38,6 km *
-S7 Nowy Dwór Gdański-oznaczona DK7..................... 2,5 km
-S7 Elbląg - cześciowo oznaczona DK7....................... 7,5 km
-S7 wylot z Warszawy na Gdańsk............................ 14,6 km *
-S7 Białobrzegi...................................................... 7,8 km *
-S7 Skarżysko-Kamienna......................................... 2,0 km
-S7 Jędrzejów (cześć północna)............................... 5,0 km
-S7 Kraków........................................................... 3,5 km *
-S7 Zakopianka ... Myślenice-Lubień......................... 12,2 km
-S8 Oleśnica......................................................... 7,5 km *
-S8 Radzymin........................................................ 6,6 km *
-S8 Ostrów Maz..................................................... 7,5 km *
-S10 Szczecin-Kobylanka - oznaczona DK10............... 10,9 km
-S12 Piaski - oznaczona DK12................................... 4,0 km
-S17 Garwolin....................................................... 12,8 km
-S69 w Zwardoniu................................................... 1,5 km 
-S86 Katowice-Sosnowiec........................................ 5,9 km *

*Together:............................................................. 249,4 km*
*_______________________________*


4.2. *Expressways 1x2:*

-S1 obwodnica Świecia.......................................... 7,2 km *
-S1 na lotnisko w Pyrzowicach................................ 9,5 km *
-S3 obwodnica Wolina - oznaczona DK3.................... 2,5 km
-S3 II. etap obw. Gorzowa Wkp. ............................. 9,5 km
-S3 I. etap obw. Gorzowa Wkp.-oznaczony DK3......... 2,5 km
-S3 Międzyrzecz - oznaczona DK3 ........................... 6,5 km
-S3 obwodnica Sulechowa - oznaczona DK3............... 1,5 km
-S3 Sulechów-Racula........................................... 17,8 km *
-S3 węzeł Racula - oznaczona DK3........................... 3,0 km
-S3 obwodnica Nowej Soli - oznaczona DK3................ 12 km
-S5 obwodnica Świecia.......................................... 5,6 km *
-S5 Szubin........................................................... 4,5 km
-S5 Śmigiel.......................................................... 3,4 km *
-S7 Miłomłyn......................................................... 2,6 km *
-S7 Kielce........................................................... 23,7 km *
-S7 Jędrzejów (cześć południowa)............................... 3 km
-S10 Kobylanka-Lipnik - oznaczona DK10.................... 6,9 km
-S10 Toruń z mostem............................................ 21,0 km *
-S19 Miedzyrzec Podlaski......................................... 6,3 km
-S69 Żywiec - Przybędza......................................... 7,7 km
-S69 Szare - Milówka.............................................. 2,8 km 
-S69 Laliki II.......................................................... 1,5 km

*Together:............................................................... 161,0 km*


*ALLTOGETHER IN OPERATION: 1176,2 km*


Copyright 2006 - 2008 Patryjota, Bialostoczanin, loan, bastard, Luki SL, YAMYTO, km4, bogusz00, eirik and bebe.2006

*____________________________*


---------------------------------------------------------------------©2008 Nasze Forum


----------



## Vagabond

PLH said:


> ^^ WHAT??!!
> 
> I see you need some credible info...



http://soccer.org.ua/2008/04/10/poland-wants-55bln-of-new-roads-for-euro-2012/


A correction to the article, China built 8300 km motorways (expressways) last year, not 5000 km as mentioned in the article. In 2006, China built 5000 km expressways.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roads_and_expressways_in_Poland


How can you consider 1x2 road as motorway?


----------



## PLH

Vagabond said:


> A correction to the article, China built 8300 km motorways (expressways) last year, not 5000 km as mentioned in the article. In 2006, China built 5000 km expressways.


Should this impress me or what? 

It's easy to build when labour force is so cheap, isn't it?

There is NO comparison between Poland and China. All these articles are crap 




Vagabond said:


> How can you consider 1x2 road as motorway?


I wrote expressway not highway

And it's a 1x2 road with flyover and with reserve for 2x2


:no:WIKI is crap, remember that:no:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Why compare Poland to China? Poland has like 38 million inhabitants, and China 1300 million, what kind of comparison is that?


----------



## PLH

^^ Well, I meant that some people are naive enough to think that we can build as fast as China do...:no:

Well, if our workers worked for a bowl of rice a day, then it would be viable, or if we make all our prisoners work for free...


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## MisiekSnk

Vagabond said:


> Poland built 25 km motorway last year. It seems Poland has long way to go before it modernize its transportation system. This country needs at least 4000 km motorway. It currently has about 300 km.


What are you talking about, dude?
P.S. where are you from?


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## Vagabond

Chriszwolle said:


> Why compare Poland to China? Poland has like 38 million inhabitants, and China 1300 million, what kind of comparison is that?


No, I am not comparing Poland and China. As you mentioned, it is not comparable. It happens that the article talked a little bit about China. It happens that there was a mistake in the article which I corrected.



PLH said:


> ^^ Well, I meant that some people are naive enough to think that we can build as fast as China do...:no:
> 
> Well, if our workers worked for a bowl of rice a day, then it would be viable, or if we make all our prisoners work for free...


Please, don't be over-sensitive. Please also stop the crap of politics and throw away your superiority complex.


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## PLH

Vagabond said:


> throw away *your* superiority complex.


OUR?? Our complex? And who is saying to the whole world 'Look, we can build 7000 km of highways a year and you suck!'??

I do not want to stard another flamme war, but I just despise this dubious 'achievemet' 

Just have your thosands of kilometers of deserted highways and be happy with that, so You could be the best is stats...

EOT


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## ChrisZwolle

Please calm down y'all.


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## 1000city

PLH said:


> "Originally Posted by Timon Kruijk
> In Poland I saw quite some Audi's and BMW's, with Polish plates, so that's a good sign".
> 
> A what have You expected?


AFAIK "western" knowledge about Cenral Europe and how media usually describe CE I belive He could expect that typical polish individual transportation looks like this









eventually this










rather than this










:lol:


----------



## PLH

^^  No, Timon wouldn't

but maybe someone do think so, sadly...


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## Qwert

PLH said:


> -S69 Szare - Laliki, odcinek z tunelem ............... 2,7 km.......10/2009............................... Bogl a Krysl / .Doprastov
> -S69 Szare - Laliki ......................................... 2,0 km ......10/2008 ...............................Bogl a Krysl / .Doprastov
> -S69 Laliki-Zwardoń........................................ 1,8 km.......12/2008...................................Kirchner & Mosty Łódź


Does it mean there will be complete expressway between Zywiec and Slovak border in the end of 2008? And what about the rest between Zywiec and Bielsko-Biala?

BTW, name of the construction company is Dopr*a*stav, not Doprastov.


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## PLH

^^ This table shows sections U/C, other secions are likely to start soon


----------



## Bartek-Biber91

Dalibyście jakieś zdjęcia z A4 w wrocławiu i krakowie.


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## ChrisZwolle

1000city said:


> AFAIK "western" knowledge about Cenral Europe and how media usually describe CE I belive He could expect that typical polish individual transportation looks like this
> http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff134/1000city/furmankanaorlenie.jpg
> 
> eventually this
> 
> http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff134/1000city/z5075832X.jpg
> 
> rather than this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lol:


Well, Dutch media presents it certainly not like that last pic, but also not like the first 2 pics, more something in between.


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## PLH

^^ how exactly? 

-----------------

@Bartek-Biber91 eee, były już tutaj milion razy, poszukaj na polskim forum


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## Bartek-Biber91

*Wezeł wielicki*


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## PLH

^^ You'd better check this: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=313015


-------------

Oh man:no: Can you read or no? You must insert your pic first in the net, then here, read the instruction first, and please, do not make 100 attempts, but edit posts, OK?


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## Bartek-Biber91

> [/QUOTE}]


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## Bartek-Biber91

Dzieki za wskazówki jak umiesczać zdjecia.


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## bebe.2006

Timon Kruijk said:


> Nice to see this new pics. How many km of the A4 Krzywowa-Jedrzychowice has been surfaced right now?


This workings has been realised since 2 weeks now. I think you can make 500 meters such surface a day. So it can be not so many yet.



Qwert said:


> Does it mean there will be complete expressway between Zywiec and Slovak border in the end of 2008? And what about the rest between Zywiec and Bielsko-Biala?


Expressway between Zywiec and Slovak border is devided in 8 small sections. 4 are already finished, 3 under construction and one in projecting (the construction is scheduled to be started 2009 and finished 2011).

The rest between Zywiec and Bielsko-Biala will need more time (till 2014). But this section you can drive by truck just yet (to the contrary to Zywiec-Slovak border-section). 
The first section near Bielsko-Biala (12 km) is scheduled to be started this year ( the process of selection/find of construction firm is going yet).


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## Mateusz

Well, it is true  But I meant more direction of Zakopane


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## PLH

^^ Well, then it is harder to find one


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## bebe.2006

More then 50% of main Polish roads are still two-lanes (one lane in each directions). For one who haven`t been in Poland jet it`s perhaps interesting to see what such roads look like.

Here some pics:

1. Szczecin-Gorzow Wielkopolski 80 km: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=496160&page=51

2. Swinoujscie-Szczecin 60km: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=410027&page=20

3. Szczecin-Stargard Szczecinski 20km: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=181632&page=27


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## PLH

*A4 Zgorzelec - Krzyżowa*


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## ChrisZwolle

bebe.2006 said:


> More then 50% of main Polish roads are still two-lanes (one lane in each directions). For one who haven`t been in Poland jet it`s perhaps interesting to see what such roads look like.
> 
> Here some pics:
> 
> 1. Szczecin-Gorzow Wielkopolski 80 km: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=496160&page=51
> 
> 2. Swinoujscie-Szczecin 60km: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=410027&page=20
> 
> 3. Szczecin-Stargard Szczecinski 20km: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=181632&page=27


Thanks, i love those pics. There is so much more to see on non-motorways.


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## geogregor

Chriszwolle said:


> Thanks, i love those pics. There is so much more to see on non-motorways.


Well, it is great to drive them like on driving holiday. It is not so funny if yiu use them daily in your commuting or on a business trip.
Problem in Poland is that these are not scenic roads but main roads connection big cities and regions.
Can you imagine driving from LA to San Francisco on highway 1? Great once or twice but not every other day when you are on a hurry.


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## delfin_pl

Katowice by car including tunnel.


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## delfin_pl

tunnels in Warsaw


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## sadiM

*From Zwardoń*

Pics taken last week


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## Timon91

^^Which road is this?


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## ChrisZwolle

S69 i suppose


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## X236K

Why is that road so empty...?


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## Qwert

X236K said:


> Why is that road so empty...?


This is Polish side of border-crossing Skalité/Zwardoń. It has expressway (on Slovak side motorway parameters), but it's very very short and its adjacent roads are not suitable for high traffic volumes, not to mention trucks. For example from Slovak side there is only local road II/487 which is almost completely inside built-up area of villages. It's necessary to finish expresways on both sides from Polish town Zywiec to Slovak village Svrčinovec on crossing with road I/11 what will allow all kinds of traffic to use this border crossing. For now the main SK/PL border crossing still remains Trstená/Chyzne.


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## Timon91

Why did they build a border station since both countries are Schengen members now?


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## PLH

^^ Because when the construction started it was not 100% sure for Slovakia to join UE


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## ChrisZwolle

PLH said:


> ^^ Because when the construction started it was not 100% sure for Slovakia to join UE


Funny how things go. Next year, they are ready to implement the Euro. I hope other Central European countries follow soon.


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## Timon91

^^2012, I believe. Many Slovaks are against the Euro because things would get much more expensive then. They point to Slovenia, where prices rose with 7% average. Maybe Verso knows more about this price rise.


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## Mateusz

But this border crossing can be used for lorries I suppose.


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## Timon91

^^I thought PLH told us before that there is no stopping anymore at the border, not even for trucks.


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## PLH

^^ Yes, no stopping at all, unless the Border Guard wants so(everywhere in border strip ca 50km from the border)


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## Timon91

Why not making it S6404 then?


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## PLH

*Construction of S8 highway bridge over Bug river near Wyszków/northeast from Warsaw/*

Check where the company is from


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## Tomcraft

A4 









Złotoryja-Chojnów





Chojnów-Złotoryja


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## Timon91

Why is there no shoulder on this part of the A4?


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## Mateusz

Just to make it cheaper, it's very sub-standard motorway, it looks like expressway more likely.


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## PLH

MateoW said:


> Just to make it cheaper


No, no no

It was due to the fact that EU gave mone only for repair of the A4, not reconstruction, so the shoulders could not be added

We could either prepare new tender with shoulders and apply for EU money, which would have taken some time or start the repair immedately

--------------

The speed limit there is 110 km/h, but when hardly no traffic and good weather the concrete at 160 km/h is pure fun


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## Timon91

^^You're not the only one who likes to do this


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## Verso

Majestic said:


> Sradi doesn't sound too nice in polish





MateoW said:


> Radi Sradi :lol:


Sounds like "Radi is taking a dump". :lol:



Timon Kruijk said:


> Why not making it S6404 then?


Sounds like the most important road in the world. 



PLH said:


>


Which trees are that? Looks like Africa, I love them! :cheers:


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## pmaciej7

PLH said:


> The speed limit there is 110 km/h, but when hardly no traffic and good weather the concrete at 160 km/h is pure fun


Of course purest fun was for guy, who ended on middle crashbarrier at 3:42. I could say he was amused to death. 
Also guys at 1:02, 2:48, 3:22 and 3:27 (right barier) had some fun.


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## PLH

^^ Only joking, I'm not so stupid  If this section had shoulder and be fenced in...

These guys had fun probably at much more than 160

Please, do not start this topic for the 100th time in the wrong thread Thanks


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## drowningman666

Verso said:


> Sounds like "Radi is taking a dump". :lol:
> 
> Sounds like the most important road in the world.
> 
> Which trees are that? Looks like Africa, I love them! :cheers:


those are pines (_Pinus sylvestris_) I guess


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## Verso

^ Oh yeah, they must be. :cheers:


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## bebe.2006

Don't do it at home:



Tomektoon said:


>


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=21541571&postcount=1467

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=21547711&postcount=1470


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## Verso

^^ What was the point of doing that?


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## Mateusz

Catching the dangerous criminal


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## PLH

Verso said:


> ^^ What was the point of doing that?


The guy was cycling on a closed road and so he was both hit by the car and the driver :crazy: or sth like that, maybe bebe knows better


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## Verso

bebe :lol:


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## RipleyLV

Maybe they were lost and wanted to ask for directions


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## bebe.2006

PLH said:


> ... or sth like that, maybe bebe knows better


I just saw the pictures on Polish subforum.
It was two days before opening of the road and the security man seems to be nervous about the fact so many people come to see the road, he had to protect  and he overreacting.
It was very stiupid and a little dangerous.


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## Verso

The world is more dangerous _with_ "guards" than without them.


----------



## mgk920

Verso said:


> MateoW said:
> 
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> What's this?
Click to expand...

Those are common all over the northern USA - they are shelters were salt/sand/etc are stored for use in snow and ice control during cold weather.

Mike


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## PLH

*A4 Kraków - Tarnów*

































































more pics


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## PLH

*S7 Warszawa - Radom*

1.


2.


3.


4.


5.


6.


7.


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## Mateusz

Nice  Is it between Grójec and Białobrzegi or between Białobrzegi and Jedlińsk ?


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## PLH

^^ Jedlińsk - Białobrzegi 


----------------

*A1 Gliwice - Ostrava*


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## Timon91

Thanks for the update :cheers:


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## 1000city

Katowice: A4/DK86 juncion upgrade in progress:


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## bebe.2006

To open today:


miras said:


>


Baypass of the town Puławy. Road DK12/S12. Bridge on the river Wisła.



Arkonada said:


>


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## Mateusz

I hope there will be some pictures of this new road


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## bgplayer19

Now that will be interesting for sure


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## Verso

Nice color.  More and more beautiful bridges are built nowadays.


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## Mateusz

New one is coming slowly, bridge on Oder (part of A8, Bypass of Wroclaw)


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## Mateusz

*S12, Bypass of Puławy*
Today bypass was opened for traffic, there are some pictures from bridge over the Vistula.
Pictures by Arkonada.




































First driver :cheers:



































First lorry :cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

No cheerleaders?


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## ufonut




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## Mateusz

Girls on shiny crashbarriers  I hope there will be some pictures from the bypass


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## Timon91

ufonut said:


>


Oh Radi, this is the perfect picture for you! You should just go there immediately :lol::cheers:


----------



## HS

Some interchanges in USMR (Upper Silesian Metropolitan Region)









DTŚ (Ruda Śl. - Katowice) and Chorzowska Avenue (Chorzow - Katowice)









DTŚ









A4 (German border - Cracow) in Gliwice









A4 and "Wiślanka" (Katowice - Wisła, the sky center)









A4 and Murckowska Street (part of road to Bielsko-Biała) with the heaviest traffic on public roads - 102k cars per day - today this interchange is rebuilt, 1000city has been done the relation on the last page









The end of DTŚ and Murckowska Street, the road to Sosnowiec is part of "Gierkówka" (Katowice - Warsaw)


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## Verso

MateoW said:


>


Lol, nice hairstyle. 



MateoW said:


> Girls on shiny crashbarriers


And skinny too!


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## Mateusz

Ideal for his preffered type


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## Piotrek_409

well... we should thank God when it will be already signed and the construction will sucecessfully start now those are still speculations :\


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## Mateusz

Yeah well, it's still better than nothing, but hopfully nothing bad will happen now nhno: That would be a big shame if this stretch will be missign


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## ChrisZwolle

Piotrek_409 said:


> well... we should thank God when it will be already signed and the construction will sucecessfully start now those are still speculations :\


If there's smoke, there's fire 

Be hopeful. Eventually, sooner or later this link will be build anway.


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## Mateusz

*A4, Zgorzelec-Krzyżowa*

New pics ! :cheers:





































































































































































































































3 said:


> Witam po dłuuugiej przerwie.
> Zdjęcia z dzisiejszego przejazdu.
> 
> WD-9 w km 6+150 koło Pokrzywnika
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> WD-22 przy DK4
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> przy węźle Bolesławiec - zdjęcia z WD-43 w km 44+468
> widok w stronę Zgorzelca z MA-42 na Bobrze
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> widok w stronę Krzyżowej z WD-44
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> Most MA-46 w Kraśniku Dolnym w km 45+963
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> MA-46 i MOP Kraśnik Dolny
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> WD-45 w km 45+895 w Kraśniku Dolnym
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> Zdjęcia z WD-45 (oddany do ruchu)...
> ... w kierunku Zgorzelca
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> ... w kierunku Krzyżowej z MA-46 i w oddali PZ-47 a przy nim maszyny do układania betonu
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> Z przejazdu przez węzeł Krzyżowa


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## ChrisZwolle

What a construction pace... Such distances would take at least 5 or more years to complete in the Netherlands.


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## Mateusz

*A1, near Nowe Marzy (Grudziądz) interchange*



pmaciej7 said:


> III. Niedziela 27 lipca. Kierunek Bydgoszcz (Toruń, Łódź - kto co lubi).
> 
> Tym razem skupiłem się na hopku. Znak ostrzegawczy jest zły, bo chyba nie chodziło im o zrobienie tutaj progu zwalniającego?
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> I jeszcze różne szczegóły, które mogły poprzednio umknąć.


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## Mateusz

*S22, Elbląg-Grzechotki*




bogusz00 said:


> Zgodnie z obietnicą wrzucam trochę fotek z odcinka Maciejewo-Grzechotki. Niestety padła mi bateria w aparacie więc relacja jest niepełna.
> Zdjęcia są z 25 lipca.
> 
> Zaczynamy w środku odcinka - kierunek Grzechotki, jakieś 1,5-2km za węzłem Maciejewo (chyba wiadukt nr 43).
> 
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> na drodze występuje głównie ruch lokalny
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> jak widać drogi dojazdowe ciągle bez asfaltu, ogrodzenie również niekompletne
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> droga dojazdowa i niekompletne ogrodzenie. Na odcinku SKANSKIEJ nie widziałem takich braków
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> zbliżamy się do mostu na Banówce. Z lewej widać znak, który mnie zaskoczył, ale o tym trochę później (jak będziemy wracać do Maciejewa).
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> ten znak z ograniczeniem wysokości mnie zmartwił. Nie znam norm, nie wiem jaka jest standardowa wysokość wiaduktów (i TIRów), ale czy to tutaj oznacza problemy dla niektórych pojazdów? Pomijam fakt, że przy takim remoncie można, a nawet powinno się usuwać takie miejsca.
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> w tle widać jeden z mostów o które pytał Bartosz - stoi. co do pozostałych to nie wiem, bo nie zwróciłem na to uwagi, niestety.
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> kolejne miejsce gdzie trwają prace wykończeniowe
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> znowu koniec ogrodzenia...
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> moze pościgamy sie?
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> zatrzymujemy się w zatoczce i odwracamy się w kierunku Elbląga
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> i w kierunku Grzechotek - w między czasie wyprzedził nas samochód na niemieckich numerach - jak się okazało chwilę poźniej, to zbłąkani turyści szukający drogi do dawnego Soviet Union...
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> tam chyba w ogóle nie ma asfaltu na drogach dojazdowych...
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> zjazd na Pęciszewo ma się dobrze...
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> tego zjazdu w lewo formalnie ma nie być...
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> odcinek dwujezdniowy - nie wjechałem tam, bo trochę się obawialem kłopotów z ekipą, która tam pracowała.
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wiadukt/przepust pod drugą jezdnię gotowy - widok w kierunku Grzechotek
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> jedziemy dalej
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> 
> kolejny przepust (chyba)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a oto właśnie znak o którym wcześniej wspominałem... czy to nie pomyłka? zwłaszcza, że za 1000m nie ma znaku o początku "eSki". Poza tym przecież ta "eSka" kończy się tuż przed granicą... więc "eSka" jest chyba w obie strony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jesteśmy kawałek za mostem (tu widok w kierunku Grzechotek)
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> teraz patrzymy w kierunku Elbląga
> 
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> w tle wiadukt przy którym trwają jakieś prace
> 
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> jedziemy dalej
> 
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> piękne widoki
> 
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> zbliżamy się do Maciejewa
> 
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> tu też jeszcze coś robią
> 
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> 
> troche komary na szybie przeszkadzają
> 
> 
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> wjeżdżamy na łącznicę
> 
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> 
> jesteśmy na drodze dojazdowej przy węźle (po południowej stronie -w kierunku Pieniężna) - patrzymy w kierunku Grzechotek
> 
> 
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> okolice węzła - DW507
> 
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> wiadukt nad S22 kierunek Braniewo
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> edit:
> ostatnie zdjęci o którym zapomniałem - wjazd na S22 w kierunku Grzechotek
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> w tym momencie wyłączył mi sie niestety aparat, a plan miałem ambitny.
> Z ciekawostek to zauważyłem ciekawie rozwiązane położenie przystanku autobusowego na węźle Chruściel. Ulokowali go jakoś przy łącznicy. Fajnie to wygląda.
> 
> Następnym razem zrobie też kolejne odcinki, chyba, że ktoś będzie tam jechał i popstryka...


----------



## Mateusz

*A4, Kraków-Szarów*




VVacek said:


> No to kolejny update zdjec odcinka WA1 - WA6
> 
> WA1 - kierunek Rzeszów
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WA1 - kierunek Katowice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Palowanie wschodniego przczólka WA1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Odcinek pomiędzyWA1 i WA2 - kierunek Rzeszów
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bogucicka w kierunku Wieliczki
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WA2 - kierunek Tarnów - juz spokojnie da sie po nim przejechac
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WD3 - kierunek Rzeszów
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Najazd na WD3 od strony Wieliczki
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WD4 - kierunek Rzeszów
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WD4 (nowa Kokotowska) - kierunek Niepołomice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nowa Kokotowska od WD4 w kierunku Krakowa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WD4 z obecnego przebiegu Kokotowskiej (Węzeł Bieżanowski)...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...i małe zbliżenie na WD4 i WD3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Z Kokotowskiej A4 w kierunku Rzeszowa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kierunek Rzeszów - w tle WA5
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> WA5 - kierunek Rzeszów
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WA5 - kierunek północny
> 
> 
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> WA5 - kierunek Katowice
> 
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> 
> 
> Odwracamy się w kierunku Rzeszowa - nasyp powoli rośnie...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...tutaj w tle juz WA6
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> WA6 - kierunek Wieliczka
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> WA6 - kierunek Katowice
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Widok w Kierunku Rzeszowa - za plecami WA6
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WA6 od strony Wieliczki
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Nowy przebieg Kokotowskiej - początek od strony Niepołomic...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..i dalszy jej przebieg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WD4 od strony Niepołomic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .. i to by było na tyle :cheers:
> 
> P.s.
> Kronos, ciekawe że sie nie spotkaliśmy :hi:


----------



## Mateusz

*S3, Szczecin-Gorzów Wielkopolski*



JacYk said:


> *Fotki z dn.25.07.2008r.
> 
> Cz.1*
> 
> *Dziś nie typowo, bo zaczynam od strony Gorzowa.
> Łatwiej będzie się oglądać, mając pod ręką mapy:*
> http://szczecin-gorzow.pl/?load=s3_inwestycje&sub=przebieg_trasy&id=4&lp=4
> 
> Pierwsze zdjęcie, tuż za Gorzowem na wysokości nie czynnej już stacji benzynowej (po prawej stronie drogi).Tu będzie chyba WD61a. Widok w stronę Szczecina.
> 
> 
> Widok od strony w/w stacji benzynowej. Gorzów na lewo
> 
> 
> Widok na wspomnianą wcześniej stację, gdzie obecnie jest baza sprzętowa. Intryguje mnie jeden fakt, a mianowicie, kiedy bym tylko nie przejeżdżał obok tego miejsca (rano czy po południu, oczywiście w dni robocze), te pojazdy ciągle tam stoją.
> 
> 
> 
> Jedziemy dalej w stronę Szczecina, na krótkim odcinku coś tam zaczęli wreszcie robić. To (wreszcie) dotyczy terenu w woj. lubuskim.
> 
> 
> Po prawej (chyba) WD60a w budowie.
> 
> 
> ...i cały czas, prosto na Szczecin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zjechałem w prawo na drogę w kierunku Kłodawy, tu będzie WD58a. Widok w stronę Gorzowa.
> 
> 
> 
> Z tego samego miejsca, widok w kierunku Szczecina.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kawałek dalej, wjechałem do lasu (tu będzie MOP Marwice). Widok w stronę Gorzowa.
> 
> 
> 
> Z tego samego miejsca, widok w stronę Szczecina i na WD56.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Widok z wysokości budowanego WD56, dalej w kierunku Szczecina.
> 
> 
> Wracam na DK3 i dojechałem do słynnego baru, który zniknie, za jakiś czas.
> 
> 
> 
> Wycięty już dawno las i nic się dalej nie dzieje. Istnieje obawa, że wyrosną nowe drzewa...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zjechałem do Trzcinnej (w prawo z DK3) i następnie kawałek dalej, odbiłem w prawo droga na Rataje i dojechałem do WD51
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Widok z WD51 w kierunku Gorzowa.
> 
> 
> Obrót w lewo i widok drogi na Rataje.
> 
> 
> 
> Obrót w lewo i widok w kierunku Szczecina, a w dali WD50.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Widok z wysokości WD50 w stronę Gorzowa, czyli na WD51.
> 
> 
> 
> Przekraczam drogę na Karsko (w lewo) i odwracam się w stronę Gorzowa. Widok na WD50.
> 
> 
> Baza sprzętowa przy WD50.
> 
> 
> *cdn..*





JacYk said:


> *Fotki z dn.25.07.2008r.
> 
> Cz.2 (od WD50 do WD46)*
> 
> Widok w stronę Szczecina z wysokości WD50 na przecięciu z drogą Trzcinna (po lewej)-Karsko (po prawej).
> 
> 
> Zbliżenie i juz widać w dali budowę WD49.
> 
> 
> 
> Obrót do tyłu, widok na WD50.
> 
> 
> Ponownie widok w kierunku Szczecina i jesteśmy w miejscu, gdzie powstanie WD49.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zbliżenie i w dali widać miejsce, gdzie powstanie WD48
> 
> 
> Z wysokości WD49, obrót do tyłu, widok w stronę Gorzowa w dali WD50.
> 
> 
> Ruszamy dalej w stronę Szczecina i już prawie jesteśmy przy budowie WD48.
> 
> 
> 
> Jesteśmy przy WD48, widok w kierunku Gorzowa.
> 
> 
> 
> Obrót jeszcze bardziej w lewo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...i mamy widok w kierunku Szczecina.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> W dali widać budowę WD47 na przecięciu z drogą Kol. Druga Nowogródek (po lewej)-Nowogródek Pomorski (po prawej).
> 
> 
> Patent na mniej kurzu, te zabudowania po prawej, to Kol. Nowogródek.
> 
> 
> Jesteśmy mniej więcej w połowie drogi, między WD48 a WD47. Widok w stronę Gorzowa i WD48.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Z tego samego miejsca, obrót w stronę Szczecina, w dali WD47.
> 
> 
> 
> Widok na WD47 w stronę Gorzowa z drogi Nowogródek Pomorski (po lewej)-Kol. Druga Nowogródek (po prawej).
> 
> 
> 
> Obracam się do tyłu w stronę Szczecina.
> 
> 
> Przed samym lasem, widocznym na zdjęciu, będzie MOP Nowogródek.
> 
> 
> Teraz widok na miejsce gdzie będzie MOP Nowogródek od strony lasu, kierunek Gorzów.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obrót do tyłu, widok w stronę Szczecina. W miejscu widocznych nasypów, powstanie WD46.
> 
> 
> W dali budowa PZ45.
> 
> 
> Wspomniany wcześniej nasyp (WD46), widok od strony lasu przy drodze Nowogródek Pomorski (po lewej)-Giżyn-Jabłonki i dalej Renice (po prawej).
> 
> 
> Widok na drugą część nasypu. W dole S3, kierunek Szczecin na prawo.
> 
> 
> Widok z nasypu w kierunku Szczecina.
> 
> 
> Zbliżenie i widać już miejsce gdzie powstanie PZ45.
> 
> 
> Widok z nasypu w kierunku Gorzowa.
> 
> 
> Widok z nasypu w stronę lasu i drogi Nowogródek Pomorski (po prawej)-Giżyn-Jabłonki i dalej Renice (po lewej)
> 
> 
> *cdn...*





JacYk said:


> *Fotki z dn.25.07.2008r.
> 
> Cz.3*
> *Odcinek od PZ45 do DK3 w Renicach.*
> 
> Widok na PZ45 od strony lasu przy drodze (za plecami) Nowogródek Pomorski(w lewo)-Giżyn-Jabłonki (w prawo).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obrót bardziej w lewo, kierunek Gorzów.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> W tym samym miejscu, obrót do tyłu i widok w stronę Szczecina.
> 
> 
> W dali można dostrzec, budowę WD44 w ciągu drogi Giżyn (po prawej)-Renice-Stare (po lewej).
> 
> 
> Jesteśmy na drodze Giżyn (za plecami)-Renice-Stare (prosto), w dali widać WD44.
> 
> 
> 
> Widok z miejsca bliżej WD44 (za plecami) na drogę w kierunku Giżyna.
> 
> 
> WD44, Szczecin na prawo.
> 
> 
> 
> Zaczynam obracać się w lewo od WD44.
> 
> 
> ...i jeszcze w lewo, kierunek Gorzów.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obracam się do tyłu i podchodzę bliżej WD44 (po lewej) i na jego wysokości, robię zdjęcie w stronę Szczecina
> 
> 
> Zbliżenie i tam gdzie widoczne zabudowania, przebiega DK3 w Renicach.
> 
> 
> Obrót do tyłu i widok WD44.
> 
> 
> 
> Ponownie obracam się do tyłu w kierunku Szczecina i ruszam do przodu. Widok bliżej DK3.
> 
> 
> Widoczny w dali nasyp za DK3, to okolice Węzła Myślibórz.
> 
> 
> Ponowny obrót w stronę Gorzowa i widok na WD44 z dalszej perspektywy.
> 
> 
> ...i zbliżenie.
> 
> 
> Odwracam się w stronę Szczecina i ruszam dalej do przodu.
> 
> 
> Dotarliśmy prawie do początku robót na odcinku II.
> 
> 
> Z miejsca, gdzie zaczynają się prace na odcinku II, widok w stronę Gorzowa.
> 
> 
> ...jeszcze zbliżenie.
> 
> 
> ... jeszcze dalej.
> 
> 
> Stoję na pierwszym (patrząc od DK3), pagórku z usypanej ziemi, widok w stronę DK3.
> 
> 
> ...zbliżenie i widać już auta zmierzające po DK3 w kierunku Gorzowa. Widoczne na wprost gospodarstwo, koliduje z przebiegiem S3 i zostanie zburzone. Kiedy do tego dojdzie, nie wiem, natomiast wciąż mieszkają tam ludzie.
> 
> 
> 
> Z tego samego miejsca, widok w stronę Gorzowa.
> 
> 
> 
> Dotarliśmy do DK3 w Renicach, widok w stronę Gorzowa, po lewej wspomniane wcześniej gospodarstwo do wyburzenia, na wysokości tych zabudowań w ciągu DK3, stanie WE43. Droga ta, jest teoretycznie granicą II i III odcinka.
> 
> 
> Od tego miejsca w prawo tj. od Węzła Myślibórz do Węzła Pyrzyce (bez węzła), czyli odcinek II jest w gestii firmy Budimex-Dromex.
> 
> 
> Widok na wspomniane już wcześniej gospodarstwo, widok z DK3 w kierunku Szczecina.
> 
> 
> Widok z DK3 na S3 w kierunku Szczecina.
> 
> 
> Widok na to samo miejsce, ale bardziej z lewej strony.
> 
> 
> Wdrapałem się na nasyp i odwróciłem się w stronę DK3.
> 
> 
> Zbliżenie w stronę WD44.
> 
> 
> Z tego samego miejsca, obracam się w stronę, przebiegu S3 do Szczecina.
> 
> 
> Zbliżenie i w dali widać WD41 (chyba).
> 
> 
> *cdn...*





JacYk said:


> *Fotki z dn.25.07.2008r.
> 
> Cz.4 od Otanowa do Sobieradza.*
> 
> *Ten odcinek fotografowałem, tylko na przecięciach S3 z głównymi drogami w kierunku Szczecina. Robiło się już, co raz ciemniej, padała mi bateria w aparacie i byłem już skonany. Obiecałem jednak sobie, że niebawem odcinek od Sobieradza do Węzła Myślibórz, udokumentuje zdjęciami, bardzo skrupulatnie.*
> 
> Z Renic przez Myślibórz, pojechałem do Otanowa
> 
> Widok, tuż przed Otanowem, na prawo kierunek Gorzów. Jestem przed WD35 (za kruszarką).
> 
> 
> Teraz pełniejszy widok na WD35 i bazę sprzętową.
> 
> 
> Zbliżenie przy WD35 w stronę Gorzowa.
> 
> 
> Widok na wprost WD35, kierunek Gorzów.
> 
> 
> Obrót do tyłu i widok w stronę Szczecina.
> 
> 
> Zbliżenie z tego samego miejsca. Tu asfalt już położony.(nie wiem, czy wszystkie warstwy), daleko w tle widać WD34.
> 
> 
> Widok na WD34 (w lewo za nim, kierunek Gorzów) na przecięciu S3 z drogą Otanów (za plecami)-Sitno (do przodu).
> 
> 
> Widok na WD34, bardziej na wprost w kierunku na Gorzów.
> 
> 
> Obrót do tyłu i widok w stronę Szczecina.
> 
> 
> Zbliżenie z tego samego miejsca i można zobaczyć podpory WD33.
> 
> 
> Widok na WD31 i bazę sprzętową, kierunek na wprost do Derczewa, za plecami Sitno.
> 
> 
> Widok na WD31, za nim kierunek Szczecin.
> 
> 
> Widok z miejsca obok WD31 w kierunku Szczecina
> 
> 
> Zbliżenie i widać na nim WD30, a na prawo od niego i zarys zabudowań MOP Sitno.
> 
> 
> Od tego miejsca trochę się zakręciłem i tak do końca, nie mam pewności czy dobrze będę opisywał zdjęcia.
> Wydaje mi się, że na poniższym zdjęciu jest WD29 na przecięciu S3 z drogą Krzemlin (na wprost)-Przydarłów (za plecami), a na lewo po S3 kierunek Szczecin.
> 
> 
> Zbliżenie na WD29 (chyba).
> 
> 
> Wytwórnia asfaltu, chyba w Przydarłowie.
> 
> 
> Prawdopodobnie widok na WD26 na przecięciu S3 z drogą Trzebórz (za plecami)-Kozielice (na wprost).Do Szczecina po S3 w lewo.
> 
> 
> Widok bliżej WD26 w lewo kierunek Szczecin.
> 
> 
> WD26, na wprost kierunek Gorzów.
> 
> 
> Widok na WD23 przy Węźle Pyrzyce (granica odcinka I i II) na przecięciu S3 z drogą Łozice(w prawo)-Parnica(w lewo). Za wiaduktem na wprost kierunek Szczecin. Prawdopodobnie WD23 wykonuje jeszcze Budimex, ale Węzeł Pyrzyce (z tyłu za wiaduktem) i cały już odcinek do Węzła Klucz (włącznie), wykonuje konsorcjum firm: Herman Kirchner Polska Sp. z o.o., Herman Kirchner Bauunternehmung GmbH, Max Bögl GmbH & CO.KG, Energopol Szczecin S.A. oraz Josef Möbius Bau-Aktiengesellschaft.
> 
> 
> Przy WD23, odwracam się w stronę Gorzowa.
> 
> 
> Widok na Węzeł Pyrzyce, Szczecin w lewo.
> 
> 
> Przecięcie S3 z drogą Chwarstnica (w lewo)- Sobieradz (w prawo). Widok w kierunku Szczecina (słońce już zachodziło).
> 
> 
> Odwracam się do tyłu, widok w stronę Gorzowa. Tu powstanie WD11.
> 
> 
> Widok na opisane wyżej miejsce, na wprost droga w kierunku Chwarstnicy.
> 
> 
> Jesteśmy na przecięciu S3 z drogą Drzenin(po prawej)-Gardno(po lewej). Widok w stronę Szczecina, a najbliższe przecięcie S3, to droga Gardno (po lewej)-Żelisławiec(na prawo).
> 
> 
> Zbliżenie, widoczny w dali wiadukt, to WD9 przy opisanej, już wcześniej drodze.
> 
> 
> Obrót do tyłu i widok w stronę Sobieradza i dalej do Gorzowa.
> 
> 
> *uff, koniec...*


----------



## msz2

Huge job is being done now in Poland. It looks very nice.:cheers:


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## Timon91

This page loads terribly slow. Too much pics. But they are great, thanks Mateo for posting them here :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Would you guys wait with new pics until we reach the next page? 

The construction looks very good. Especially that S22. Do you also need a visum for Kaliningrad?


----------



## TOMU1982

we need visas to the Kalingrad.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I heard an interesting wondering on the Dutch autosnelwegen forum, where does the "S"-prefix in the Expressway stand for? It doesn't look like "Droga Ekspresowa".


----------



## Piotrek_409

I guess it's because you may also call it "droga szybkiego ruchu" which is synonime of "droga ekspresowa"

S from szybkiego, which means fast, express etc.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Next page for loading times sake 

Thanks for the answer.


----------



## msz2

Pictures from the construction site of the S-7 Warsaw Krakow section, near city of Kielce (Kielce North Interchange):


----------



## Sponsor

Piotrek_409 said:


> I guess it's because you may also call it "droga szybkiego ruchu" which is synonime of "droga ekspresowa"
> S from szybkiego, which means fast, express etc.


Not exactly. Poles in general say 'droga szybkiego ruchu' and think double carriageway. In fact 'droga szybkiego ruchu' is both motorway and expressway.

We can't use "E" like ekspresowa droga, because "E" is reserved for european numbers.


----------



## LMB

*Reason for such strict norms on hwy's in Poland*

This topic was brought up by ChrisZwolle in the last section (Polish Highways I), and I don't know if anybody answered it. The question is why are the norms for distance between exists, max. inclination and radius curve so strict in Poland? 

There are lots of authobahnen in Germany that don't meet *any* of these conditions, but so what? And I don't only mean such places as A4 between Thuringen and Hessen, where speed limits of 100 are common (down to even 80km/h), but there are lots and lots other places like that. And same goes for Netherlands, exits can be right one after another. The only penalty is that the speed limit is 10 km/h lower (so what that the actual touring speed can be higher, when it's illegal?) 

So why do we bother with these norms?


----------



## LMB

I haven't seen a mention of this short stretch (6km?) of an express road that currently is S5 (but in the future will just be a street leading to the highway, no number). 

This is a 2x2 expressway, with the speed limit of 80 because of city limits. When the last missing section of 600m is completed, it will be the fastest connection for the western bank of the city to the A2 Berlin-Poznań-Łódź-[Warsaw].

Here are some pics:



Rusonaldo said:


>


----------



## msz2

Next part about A-4:



Construction site of the future A-1/A-4 interchange in Silesia region:






Chriszwolle compatriots:







Arch viaduct under construction:


----------



## KHS

I was on highway from Krakow to Katowice/Sosnowiec yesterday... How can they charge 13 zlots for a road in that condition? There is more construction than normal road.


Btw. I really like Wodka zoladkowa gorzka and bigos.

And remeber... Nigdy nie jezdze po alkoholu.


----------



## msz2

KHS said:


> I was on highway from Katowice/Sosnowiec to Krakow yesterday... How can they charge 13 zlots for a road in that condition? There is more construction than normal road.


We in Poland still ask ourselves this question. But in opposite direction (toward Wroclaw) A-4 is for free and there are almost no construction or renovation works.


----------



## RipleyLV

KHS said:


> I was on highway from Krakow to Katowice/Sosnowiec yesterday... How can they charge 13 zlots for a road in that condition?





msz2 said:


> But in opposite direction (toward Wroclaw) A-4 is for free and there are almost no construction or renovation works.


:nuts: :lol: :lol:

As I was saying... Poland just keeps suprising me!


----------



## Timon91

Last year I used the A4 from Kraków to the exit for Oswiecim, and I had to pay tolls.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The A4 between Katowice and Kraków is quite old, I remember it being in a detoriated shape in 2003, yet far better than the A4 was between Wroclaw and Olszyna.


----------



## RipleyLV

ChrisZwolle said:


> The A4 between Katowice and Kraków is quite old, I remember it being in a detoriated shape in 2003, yet far better than the A4 was between Wroclaw and Olszyna.


In 1999 or 2000, A4 from Legnica till Wrocław was total crap, concrete plates were higher than the second, and totally crazy pavement!


----------



## E2rdEm

^^ Yeah, we called it "the longest stairway in Europe". :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I believe they renovated it in 2004/2005.


----------



## ufonut

KHS said:


> I was on highway from Krakow to Katowice/Sosnowiec yesterday... How can they charge 13 zlots for a road in that condition? There is more construction than normal road.


This ended up in court twice as some politicians and citizens sued and demanded clarifications. Unfortunately the court sided with the company responsible for collecting tolls and maintaining the highway. It ruled that collecting tolls is ok while upgrades are being performed. So even though some stretches are being repaved you still pay the full amount.


----------



## Chris80678

You have to expect some delays on Poland's motorways as the network can't be expanded without digging up some parts of existing motorways - I mean has anyone seen the photos of the mess that's been made of the A18 at Krzyzowa to accomodate the new A4 interchange? (for photos type in A4 motorway in Poland in Wikipedia and follow the links - photos of the Zgorzelec - Kyzyzowa section at the bottom of the page)


----------



## Chris80678

In October 2008, another section of the A1 Swarożyn – Nowe Marzy (65km) will be ready for use.

Taken from Ministry of Infrastructure in Poland website


----------



## KHS

Anyway... I had a great time in Poland.


----------



## Mateusz

Currently contract for constructing A2 Świecko-Nowy Tomyśl in Ministry of Infrastructure ! :cheers: 1 km of this motorway will cost 12,2 millions Euro and it will have concrete surface. Construction will start in March '09 :cheers:


----------



## RipleyLV

Congratulations!!! :cheers: Section is 105 km long, that makes 1.2 billion EUR. Ain't that a little bit too expensive?


----------



## Mateusz

It is... they could finish negotiations earlier, governemnt wanted cheaper, time was going and they have what they have now...


----------



## MisiekSnk

RipleyLV said:


> Congratulations!!! :cheers: Section is 105 km long, that makes 1.2 billion EUR. Ain't that a little bit too expensive?


Concrete Superstructure :banana:


----------



## RipleyLV

For 1.2 billion EUR, that road must be made out of gold!


----------



## E2rdEm

^^ The company says this is a total cost - including design plans, the cost of toll booths with their infrastructure and of complete rest areas - with filling stations and restaurants. They say all these costs add up to about 1,5 mln EUR / km. So the mororway itself costs about 10,7 mln EUR per km - still a lot...

The construction costs in Poland have gone up dramatically since we joined the EU. There was a boom in the construction market - not only because the infrastructure investments - also residential and commercial buildings are popping up everywhere...


----------



## earth intruder

KHS said:


> Anyway... I had a great time in Poland.


any pics?


----------



## Piotrek_409

> Nice to see pogress there. But, I'm a bit confused, AFAIK S7 should lead from Kraków to Chyzne, not to Zakopan


Actually most people who use this road are heading to Zakopane (main tourist resort) not Chyżne... and the road coloquially is called "zakopianka" and who knows where finally it will end in Chyżne or Zakopane. 

Anyway if You want to travel to Slovakia there are many more options (also s69 under construction) but to Zakopane there is unfortunately only one.


----------



## Qwert

Rijeka said:


> Maybe it's a stupid question, but still :lol: Will the Polish A4 from Zgorzelec be renumbered, since the motorway on the German part of the border carries the same number. Isn't there an obligation (or only usage) not to have same road numbers on different sides of the border? Someone knows anything about it?


There is motorway between Bratislava, Slovakia and Brno, Czech Republic which has the same name on both sides of the border - D2. So I think no renumbering is needed.



Piotrek_409 said:


> Actually most people who use this road are heading to Zakopane (main tourist resort) not Chyżne... and the road coloquially is called "zakopianka" and who knows where finally it will end in Chyżne or Zakopane.


I'm not employed at Polish Ministry of Transportation, but I'm sure S7 will end in Chyzne since DK7 ends in Chzyne as well. Although it's far far future. According to current plans S7 will end in Rabka. Maybe there will be some S47 from Rabka to Zakopane.



Piotrek_409 said:


> Anyway if You want to travel to Slovakia there are many more options (also s69 under construction) but to Zakopane there is unfortunately only one.


It depends to where in Slovakia you want to travel. But Slovak D3 Polish and S69 will be for sure more busy that Slovak R3 and Polish S7.


----------



## PLH

Rijeka said:


> Will the Polish A4 from Zgorzelec be renumbered, since the motorway on the German part of the border carries the same number.


Well, if it were so, It should have been done 14 years ago, when the by-the-border section of polish A4 was build 

Anyway, I cannot think of any practical reason for doing that.


----------



## PLH

Guess where it is... 


Same place…

Year 2003:



and 2008:



Another one in 2003…



and in 2008:



And now the best pics so far :banana:


----------



## Mateusz

A4, Zgorzelec-Krzyżowa



johny77 said:


> Kilka zdjęć z budowy kawałek za odcinkiem który pokazał Sergiovanhelsing.
> 
> Nowa Wieś - tu kończy się beton od strony Bolesławca. Wiaduktem na pierwszym planie będzie biegła DW357 Osiecznica-Lubań
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tutaj na pierwszym planie przebiega tymczasowa droga na czas budowy wiaduktu
> 
> 
> Dla ciekawych szczegółów
> 
> 
> Przejście dla zwierząt w kierunku Zgorzelca
> 
> 
> WA(WD?) 19 nad DW296
> 
> 
> Węzeł Godzieszów, rondo na DK296 (w prawo wjazd na A4)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Węzeł Godzieszów
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Przebudowywany dojazd do przejścia granicznego Jędzrzychowice
> 
> 
> W prawo pas do przejścia granicznego
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Widok z wiaduktu nad A4 w stronę Bolesławca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tymczasowe rondo na DK4
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wjazd na A4 od strony Zgorzelca
> 
> 
> To tyle zdjęć. Przejeżdżałem też nad odcinkiem prowadzącym do przejścia granicznego, ale tam jest tylko sfrezowana jezdnia w kierunku Jędrzychowic (ruch odbywa się po jezdni od Jędrzychowic do Bolesławca) i innych prac nie widać.





sergiovanhelsing said:


> Witam wszystkich Forumowiczów
> Po przejrzeniu wszystkich postów z tematu chcę się podzielić kilkoma zdjęciami naszej A4 (mieszkam w Bolesławcu). Ponieważ jestem również leśnikiem mam kilka starszych zdjęć robionych stale w tym samym miejscu, które obrazują postęp prac. Oto kilka z nich.
> 
> 
> 
> Powyżej zdjęcie lotnicze wiaduktu nad drogą Bolesławiec-Bukowy Las. Na fotce zaznaczone miejsca gdzie i w którym kierunku robione były zdjęcia. Zdjęcie poglądowe nie mojego oczywiście autorstwa ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> Powyżej Zdjęcie 1 (rok 2003)
> 
> 
> 
> Powyżej Zdjęcie 1 (rok 2006)
> 
> 
> 
> Powyżej Zdjęcie 1 (rok 2008)
> 
> 
> 
> Powyżej Zdjęcie 2 (rok 2003) – stoję dokładnie na środku pasa 40 metrowej szerokości dawnej niemieckiej niedokończonej Autobahny. Ta przecinka w na środku zdjęcia to dokładnie oś obecnej i dawnej autostrady.
> 
> 
> 
> Powyżej Zdjęcie 3 (rok 2003) widoczny przeciwległy przyczółek wiaduktu zbudowanego przez Niemiaszków a zalesionego przez polskich leśników
> 
> 
> 
> Powyżej Zdjęcie 3 (rok 2008) – stan obecny- zdjęcie zrobione dokładnie z tego samego miejsca i w tym samym kierunku co poprzednie (trochę się zmieniło :lol: )





sergiovanhelsing said:


> Fotorelacja z podróży Autostradą A4
> 
> 
> …i wszystko na ten temat, można jechać ;-)
> 
> 
> Jadę w kierunku wschodnim do Węzła Bolesławiec, jestem jeszcze przed Bobrem niedaleko wsi Krępnica (minę ją po lewej stronie)
> 
> 
> Węzeł Bolesławiec, widoczne dwa wiadukty, zdjęcie zrobione tuż za mostem nad Bobrem
> 
> 
> Węzeł Bolesławiec
> 
> 
> Węzeł Bolesławiec
> 
> 
> Most nad Bobrem
> 
> 
> Wiadukt nad leśną drogą między Krępnicą a Bukowym Lasem
> 
> 
> Highway. W oddali wznoszący się nasyp nad drogą Bolesławiec-Kliczków
> 
> 
> Obudowywanie przyczółków (wiadukt na drodze Bolesławiec-Kliczków) widok w kierunku południowym.


----------



## Chris80678

Only three weeks until the opening of the A1 motorway from Swarozyn to Nowe Marzy guys! (15th October 08) :banana: Let's hope the continuation of it to Torun goes a lot faster :nuts:


----------



## Mateusz

Costruction of this section started at 25th of August :cheers: and is supposed to be ninished at the ned of 2011 ^^


----------



## bebe.2006

S3 Szczecin-Gorzow - new pics:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=496160&page=70

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=496160&page=69


----------



## Mateusz

3 days ago bypass of Grójec (S7) was opened. It is about 8 km long :banana::cheers:


----------



## Mateusz

S22 (Elbląg-Grzechotki (PL/RUS)) is now opened ! This expressway is about 50 km long :cheers: Hopefully Russia will improve P516 at their side


----------



## PLH

*S22 Elbląg-Grzechotki (PL/RUS)*

25.09.2008





































Border crossing:









Polish side:









And Russian one...hno:


----------



## Chris80678

The S22 looks so much better with nice looking overpasses and bridges. It's good to see Poland putting Russia to shame for a change over the state of their roads :lol: I'm sure that the Kaliningrad section of the road will be in a similar state soon (like in 10 years time maybe!!!)


----------



## PLH

Chris80678 said:


> I'm sure that the Kaliningrad section of the road will be in a similar state soon


No to exactly similiar, as all overpases were turned into normal crossings by demolishing old viaducts, which was incredibly stupid, as we only renovated them.

Here some pics from Russian side:

http://www.berlinka.pcp.pl/berlinka/kaliningrad_2008.html

http://www.berlinka.pcp.pl/berlinka/kaliningrad_wiosna_2007.html

Take a look at this one from 18.05.2008:










It's far from any standards but a local road


----------



## Timon91

^^There is also a road like that in my town. When coming from the A2 and entering Abcoude, you drive over a very bad concrete road (though it will be repaved soon)


----------



## Mateusz

But it was stupid to liquidate these viaducts and flyovers... decreasing class of the road


----------



## PLH

^^ Reichsautobahnen were(are?) in USSR/Russia embeded so strongly with Nazis that they would demolish them and build new in the same place

BTW And what happened during the "liberation" of Poland in 1945, huh? Everything demolished only to build it again in 5 years...


----------



## Mateusz

Hmm.. but did Polish demolished Reichsautobahn at Polish side ?


----------



## PLH

^^ No, only the bridges were blown off either by Germans or Soviets(germans more likely)

The fact that nothing was done with this road is enough


----------



## X236K

Hi all, apologies for stupid question but I'm in a hurry now. How does the toll work in Poland? Vignette...? How much for 10 days or 2 weeks?


----------



## Timon91

No vignette, there are some toll booths AFAIK (A4 Katowice-Kraków, entire current A2)


----------



## Mateusz

We don't have vignettes... There are toll station on A4 between Katowice and Krakow, also there are toll stations on A2, between Poznan and Konin ^^


----------



## X236K

So from Gliwice heading to Berlin I dont have to pay any toll?


----------



## Timon91

^^No tolls for you


----------



## Sponsor

^^Nope.


----------



## X236K

^^^ Thanks! Nice country!


----------



## Realista_KR

Remember visiting a petrol station before Gliwice because AFAIK there aren't any petrol stations on A4 between Gliwice and Wrocław. That's why this motorway is free. Have a nice journey via Poland.


----------



## PLH

And one more thing - if you're very strict towards speed limits, remember that the A18 has a stupid speed limit of 100 km/h. But if you're not, it's hard to meet police there


----------



## PLH

*A6/S3 Interchange Szczecin *


----------



## Mateusz

S3 is getting real, nice shape now ! :cheers:


----------



## Timon91

Realista_KR said:


> Remember visiting a petrol station before Gliwice because AFAIK there aren't any petrol stations on A4 between Gliwice and Wrocław. That's why this motorway is free. Have a nice journey via Poland.


AFAIK there are, but they are not directly located at the road, which means that you first have to take an exit off the motorway, and then find a petrol station *close* to the motorway


----------



## PLH

^^ Well that's quite understandible, but not very convinient for the drivers


----------



## Mateusz

Especially for foreign ones


----------



## Timon91

^^I didn't have any problems with it when I was there a year ago. The petrol stations are signed from the motorway exit, and by just following the signs you will get there without any problems


----------



## Mateusz

But always the best way is petrol stations next to motorway


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's normal in some countries to have service/gas stations near exits. The US almost only exclusively has these (except toll roads), and gas stations directly on the motorway are also rare in Denmark or Sweden from what I've seen. (transport center).


----------



## PLH

*A1 Gdańsk - Grudziądz*


Only 19 days to go!


----------



## kajetanek

17 october it will be open ;D 
route to the baltic sea for me it be quite simply 1-1,5h and all. before in needed 2-3h ;/


----------



## Mateusz

65 km of brand new motorway  Next 65 km to Toruń at the end of 2011  A1 is growing quite fast


----------



## Chris80678

I would disagree. I don't think the A1 motorway construction is going as fast as it needs to. Why will it take three years to extend the motorway from Nowe Marzy (Grudziadz) to Torun? Since its going to take so long wouldn't it make more sense to start construction on the section from Torun to Lodz (Strykow) early next year too? Only people living in Gdansk and Bydgoszcz will benefit from the opening of the A1 on 17th October as those in Torun have to drive all the way to the E75 at Swecie to connect to the motorway at Nowe Marzy


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What about the construction of the A1 south of Torun. If it takes 3 years to construct 80km at the time it would take years before it reaches Katowice. Industrial/economic growth can't wait that long.


----------



## Chris80678

ChrisZwolle said:


> What about the construction of the A1 south of Torun. If it takes 3 years to construct 80km at the time it would take years before it reaches Katowice. Industrial/economic growth can't wait that long.


I couldn't agree wirth ChrisZwolle more. I really can't understand why it's going to take three years just to add an extra 80km of motorway from Nowe Marzy to Torun :bash: - surely the first bridge over the Vistula river near Nowe Marzy doesn't take that long to erect? hno: By May 2009 we're going to have an imcomplete and fragmentary motorway with sections from:
Ruscocin (Gdansk) to Nowe Marzy (Grudziadz) - this part only serves a tiny part of northern Poland, possibly the section from Strykow II (Lodz) to the current A1 motorway near Piotrykow Trb will be done :lol: and finally the section from Gliwice Sosnica interchange with the A4 motorway to Goryzcki at the Czech border. 
In summary, so there will be a huge gap between Nowe Marzy and Strykow II interchanges and between the end of the current A1 motorway near Piotrykow Trb (unless by some miracle the current E75 dual carraigeway from near Piotrykow Trb to Czechostowa is upgraded to motorway standard by 2009 :lol and Gliwice Sosnica interchange. S
So in reality the people of Gdansk and Bydgoszcz will only benefit from the A1 from Ruscocin to Nowe Marzy, only the people of Lodz will benefit from the A1from Strykow II to Piotrykow Trb and finally only the people of the Katowice agglomeration will benefit from the A1 from Sosnica to the Czech border.
This is a ridiculous situation - what use is a fragmented motorway with the section for central Poland missing? :nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, 3 years for 80km isn't that bad, but they should work on more pieces simultaneously, so most of the A1 will be ready in 4 years or so. If they keep moving 80km per 3 years, it would take 30 years to cover 800 km.


----------



## ufonut

The work will progress concurently. What we know *today* is that the construction of A1 south to Torun will start in early 2009 (actual heavy ground works).

At the same time negotiations are currently underway (construction of the remaining stretches of A1). So what we will know in 1 month or 2 months from now may be very different from what we know today.

Don't despair. Nobody is going to wait 3 years until A1 to Torun is completed to start buidling remaining stretches of A1.


----------



## Mateusz

On section from Grudziądz to Toruń they left some spare time for eventual problems or difficulties


----------



## Timon91

As long as it is finished for Euro 2012


----------



## E2rdEm

ufonut said:


> Don't despair. Nobody is going to wait 3 years until A1 to Torun is completed to start buidling remaining stretches of A1.


^^ Yeah, chill out, the Ministry of Infrastructure promises the whole A1 will be built till the end of 2011. :lol: It's an outright lie, but the current situation, as published every week (or two) by road authorities (http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/dane/standia.pdf) is as follows:

(Gdańsk) Rusocin - Nowe Marzy (Grudziądz) - open or opens soon.

Grudziądz - Toruń: construction started, due 2011.

Toruń - Stryków (Łódź): still on the drawing board. Also lacks some administrative decisions - and those are the hardest part, with protests always delaying the whole thing by months and even years. My prediction: the paperwork with protests will take the whole year 2009. The tender for construction (with protests) will take the whole 2010. The construction will start early 2011 and finish 2012/13 (two years is enough, since there are no sophisticated constructions like the Vistula river bridge).

Łódź - Piotrków - Częstochowa - Pyrzowice (near the airport for Katowice): it's a PPP. The deal with the private partner is not signed yet. *If *it will be signed this year, then the works might begin late 2009 to mid-2010, so the motorway could be ready in mid-2012, if they really put some effort to it. If not (and don't forget, large part of it is a current double-carriageway DK1, they will probably have to rebuild it in stages, keeping one carriageway open to traffic) - we might end up in 2013...

Pyrzowice - Gliwice: The tender for construction works is on the way, but there are also protests to some administrative decisions. My prediction: next year to clear out protests; on some parts construction might start even early 2009, on some - late 2009 to 2010. Tiny bits could open to traffic in 2011, but the whole part will be ready in 2012.

Gliwice - Gorzyczki (PL/CZ): U/C now, the whole part might be open in 2010.


As you can see, it's *not* that they build it step-by-step, waiting with the next section until the previous one is finished. But still - the whole A1 will not be ready for mid-2012.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's still quite fast. I hope this counts for the A2 Frankfurt/Oder - Nowy Tomysl / Lodz - Warszawa - Terespol too.


----------



## Timon91

In how many days will the A4 between Jedrzychowice-Krzywowa open?


----------



## Mateusz

Eastern part is finished in practice but it will probably have to to wait couple of months for other part to catch up to beggining of 2009...


----------



## PLH

^^ I've heard sth about opening only half of ot, but this might be only rumors

----------------

BTW, new section of A8 is U/C (red)


----------



## Mateusz

That's great news ! So they got a deal then :cheers: Motorway Bypass of Wrocław is getting reality


----------



## Timon91

Hopefully they also extend the A8 to Lodz, but I can't remember there were any plans for that. Am I right?


----------



## Mateusz

Yes there is plan for expressway S8 to Łódź


----------



## PLH

^^ and to the Lithuanian border, partially U/C now (30 km) and existing (22 km)


----------



## asahi

PLH said:


> ^^ and to the Latvian border, partially U/C now (30 km) and existing (22 km)


rather Lithuanian ^^


----------



## adas22

PLH said:


> ^^ and to the Latvian border, partially U/C now (30 km) and existing (22 km)


We border Lithuania on east, Latvia is eastern neighbour of Lithuania.


----------



## Chris80678

I would think that the A4 from Krzyzowa to Zgorzelec should be ready for use in Jan 2009  . It's October now so that only leaves November and December to get the Zgorzelec interchange up to scratch. But at least we're now at the stage where all of the interchanges between Krzyzowa and Zgorzelec are complete :banana: . Some pictures of the almost completed interchange a Krzyzowa would be good ^^ .


----------



## PLH

adas22 said:


> We border Lithuania on east, Latvia is eastern neighbour of Lithuania.


Lithuanian of course

Thanks for this short geography lession 

-------------------------------

Some pics from A4:


----------



## Timon91

^^I don't really like it that the exits are asphalt and the road surface itself is concrete. It looks pretty ugly IMO. However, I cannot think of solution to prevent that. I've never seen it that way (at least I don't remember it)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Asphalt is easier to construct that way. Concrete is easier to construct on straight sections, if you look at those machines they use.


----------



## Timon91

I understand, but doesn't this look ugly? Does anyone have pics of such a situation on an existing highway? 
sorry if I sound like radi


----------



## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> Asphalt is easier to construct that way. Concrete is easier to construct on straight sections, if you look at those machines they use.


That's the point.



Timon91 said:


> I understand, but doesn't this look ugly? Does anyone have pics of such a situation on an existing highway?


Yes, for example the new D1/47 in CR.



Timon91 said:


> sorry if I sound like radi


well....


----------



## ABRob

Will this new part of A4 between Germany and A18 be tolled?


----------



## PLH

^^ Not now, probably when the new EU electronic system will be introduced.


----------



## PLH

*S8 Radzymin - Wyszków* 










_Source: http://www.radzymin-wyszkow.pl/_

Widening of the existing road:













Turning back towards Warsaw:



3. 51+150, jedziemy w stronę wiaduktu w Deskurowie


----------



## Sponsor

*[A1]*Gdańsk - Grudziądz
pics from http://gdansk.naszemiasto.pl/budujemy_autostrade_a-1/specjalna_pozycja/1833_6355.html?pp=1









































soon


----------



## Timon91

Looks good :cheers:


----------



## RawLee

Timon91 said:


> I understand, but doesn't this look ugly? Does anyone have pics of such a situation on an existing highway?
> sorry if I sound like radi


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=25399762&postcount=2257

Pic #3


----------



## Timon91

^^Thanks, it doesn't look too bad.


----------



## Chris80678

13 days to go until opening of A1 from Tzcew to Nowe Marzy :banana:


----------



## PLH

^^ 6 actually


----------



## Rijeka

I've just heard on CNN that there's a project in Poland of constructing 3000 km of motorways/expressways till Euro 2012. Is it true? Any links? Where can I find some information? I've never been to Poland and I was thinking of going next year, but I might travel in 2012 instead


----------



## Mateusz

3000 km to 2012... joke on :nuts: There are certain plans for finishing prioritised roads for Euro, but I doubt they will manage up to 3000 km


----------



## PLH

What we have now plus U/C:



More or less sth like that in 2012:


----------



## Rijeka

Thanx PLH!


----------



## Chris80678

Only 3 days to go until the opening of the A1 from Tzcew to Nowe Marzy on Friday 17th October 2008 :banana: then we can focus our attention again on the A4 motorway from Zgorzelec to Krzyzowa ^^ and from Wieliczka to Szarów


----------



## ufonut

Bypass of *Biecz*. Biecz nowadays is a small town but it was a pretty important place in Polish medieval history.










Bypass (foto by Mariusz Kozien)






























S7 expressway Warszawa - Radom

Photos by RaV




























































































A4 highway Krakow - Szarow 

Photos by VVacek


----------



## PLH

*A1 Gdańsk - Grudziądz*

by *pmaciej7*


----------



## PLH




----------



## PLH

*A1 Gliwice - Ostrava(CZ)*


----------



## Timon91

Rijeka said:


> I've just heard on CNN that there's a project in Poland of constructing 3000 km of motorways/expressways till Euro 2012. Is it true? Any links? Where can I find some information? I've never been to Poland and I was thinking of going next year, but I might travel in 2012 instead


Ahhh, the Americans are exaggerating again :lol:
Nice pics, PLH! It seems like we've already seen the entire new partrof the A1 before it's opening


----------



## PLH

Timon91 said:


> Ahhh, the Americans are exaggerating again :lol:


Well, the *plan* is the same as what they've written 



Timon91 said:


> Nice pics, PLH! It seems like we've already seen the entire new partrof the A1 before it's opening


No, I still have some pics in reserve


----------



## ChrisZwolle

How long are all those S and A-roads combined? About 7.000 kilometers? Not all S-roads will be immediatly build with dual carriageways though.


----------



## Sponsor

* - 5745 km
[A] - 2004 km
*
*7749 km*


----------



## mati162c

S5, S7, S8, S19, S3, A1, A2, A4, A6, A18, S1, S2, S79, *should* be build before Euro 2012, but it's impossible, maybe in 2015 those may exist...


----------



## Mateusz

S19 ? I don't think so... Couple of bypasses and that's all... Myabe after 2015 further investments


----------



## Verso

Looolz, I thought the S22 would be a 4-lane expressway! Not that it's necessary, especially not yet, but now I'm kinda disappointed.  Ok, it's a very nice road.


----------



## Mateusz

Well, traffic there is quite low... but there is reserve for second part


----------



## Timon91

^^Like with most two-laned S-roads. It's a good thing they have thought about that, it saves you from problems when traffic numbers rise (which happened a lot in the Netherlands)


----------



## dawid_silesia

S22 Elbląg - Grzechotki (PL-RUS border - in the future  ) photo by pmaciej7  --> MORE PHOTOS <--


----------



## dawid_silesia

^^


----------



## Timon91

I see they also sign tiny border villages over here. Grzechotki hno:


----------



## Rijeka

PLH said:


> *A1 Gliwice - Ostrava(CZ)*
> 
> Those A1 pictures look very good.


----------



## Sponsor

Timon91 said:


> I see they also sign tiny border villages over here. Grzechotki hno:


Stupid polish habit :/


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, for me, those tiny border villages is the only major bad thing about Polish signage. Domestic destinations are signed pretty well.


----------



## Verso

Mateusz said:


> Well, traffic there is quite low... but there is reserve for second part


I know, I just thought it would be 4-laned and restored in all its glory, hehe.  So widening is already planned, or there's reserve just in case? Btw, Grzechotki is now a new border crossing? Previously vehicles crossed the border by Gronowo?





PLH said:


>


Actually, if you look closely, you'll see a 4-lane expressway here!


----------



## PLH

Verso said:


> So widening is already planned, or there's reserve just in case?


Just in case.



Verso said:


> Btw, Grzechotki is now a new border crossing?


Not yet, the Russians are far from completing ithno:



Verso said:


> Previously vehicles crossed the border by Gronowo?


Yes.



Verso said:


> Actually, if you look closely, you'll see a 4-lane expressway here!


originally there was 2x2 on the junctions.


----------



## X236K

Hey guys, please tell me what the hell is wrong with the A4 pavement close to the German border, heading to Wroclaw? It's even worse than our D1! The oppsite direction is so fine!


----------



## Timon91

^^You mean the A18, or the very small section near Zgorzelec?


----------



## X236K

Timon91 said:


> ^^You mean the A18, or the very small section near Zgorzelec?


Yes, I mean this, sorry for confusion!


----------



## Timon91

Well, this section was laid by the nazi's, and it used to be 2-laned. Now they constructed the new lane, so heading west is a new motorway, and heading east is just...horrible. Before Euro 2012 it should be repaved


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A18 is being reconstructed if I'm correct. They already did one carriageway, the other one still needs repaving. In Polish terms this means the entire roadway need to be replaced. You can't just pave over those "stairs".


----------



## Timon91

^^They need special machines to remove it all. When I was there last year they were doing small sections (app. 500m) at the time. That way it takes ages, they'll have to speed up to be finished by 2012


----------



## X236K

Timon91 said:


> ^^They need special machines to remove it all. When I was there last year they were doing small sections (app. 500m) at the time. That way it takes ages, they'll have to speed up to be finished by 2012


It seems that section is not finished yet.

Also, I wonder why the A4 to Wroclaw is so narrow while the stretch from Wroclaw to Gliwice is much wider...


----------



## Timon91

^^The old A4 used to be like this (without shoulders), and Poland only got EU money to repave this section, so they couldn't add shoulders, whereas the stretches that do have shoulders are completely new. Maybe they'll add them in the future.


----------



## Sponsor

ChrisZwolle said:


> A18 is being reconstructed if I'm correct.


Not yet. The enviromental decision has been approved and construction is supposed to start in 2009 or 2010.

Timon91: "Maybe they'll add them in the future".

^^There are no shoulders until this section is toll-free. Don't know when is this going to happen but could be quite long time because we will try to bring in electronic toll system.


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

Timon91 said:


> ^^The old A4 used to be like this (without shoulders), and Poland only got EU money to repave this section, so they couldn't add shoulders, whereas the stretches that do have shoulders are completely new. Maybe they'll add them in the future.


Most probably while extending to 2 x 3 lanes.


----------



## X236K

Jakub Warszauer said:


> Most probably while extending to 2 x 3 lanes.


Is this proposed/planned? I cruised that roads during the night, both direction just after midnight and the traffic was surprisingly high. I had to keep myself in the left lane mostly to overtake the trucks.


----------



## Timon91

^^Normally there are just lots of trucks, I believe. Is there someone with figures about traffic intensities of this section?


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

X236K said:


> Is this proposed/planned? (...)


Nowadays all TEN-T roads (like E75/A1, S8/E67) are obliged to be at least prepeared for extension. This applies to both motorways and expessways.

Discussed A4 (or E40) section was done (either repaved or reconstructed) before this directive was introduced. I don't know whether they prepeared interchanges, corridor, anything. I guess no.



Timon91 said:


> Is there someone with figures about traffic intensities of this section?


Here. In polish, but reading maps shouldn't be any problem.


----------



## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> In Polish terms this means the entire roadway need to be replaced. You can't just pave over those "stairs".


It's because of decelareration lanes on junctions and emergency lanes:










And becouse covering the concrete with asphalt would in few yers time result in that it will "pour" between the slabs and we would have new stairs again.


----------



## Timon91

Jakub Warszauer said:


> Here. In polish, but reading maps shouldn't be any problem.


4000-8000 vehicles a day. Normally you don't even need a highway for that, but regarding the huge amount of trucks it might be a good idea, like X236K said.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

X236K said:


> Also, I wonder why the A4 to Wroclaw is so narrow while the stretch from Wroclaw to Gliwice is much wider...


The A4 to Wroclaw is from 1936, the section from Wroclaw to Gliwice has been constructed in the late 1990's by German standards so it's much newer. Reichsautobahnen used to be constructed without a shoulder.


----------



## X236K

ChrisZwolle said:


> The A4 to Wroclaw is from 1936, the section from Wroclaw to Gliwice has been constructed in the late 1990's by German standards so it's much newer. Reichsautobahnen used to be constructed without a shoulder.


So we should not say that the quality of that road is terrible as it has been serving for more than 70 years


----------



## Timon91

^^Yes, but it certainly needs new pavement.


----------



## E2rdEm

Timon91 said:


> 4000-8000 vehicles a day. Normally you don't even need a highway for that, but regarding the huge amount of trucks it might be a good idea, like X236K said.


Huh? You've read the figures for A18. Noone is thinking about 2x3 lanes there. The new, northern carriageway has normal emergency lanes, as shown on the picture posted by PLH. The southern carriageway, to be rebuilt soon, will have emergency lane too.
OK, 8000/day is not enough for a motorway - but it's easy to build in a corridor that's been an autobahn for 70 years. So why not...

The problem is A4 near Wrocław. It had 15000-25000 veh/day in 2005. It has no hard shoulders. The polish forumers mostly say it should be rebuilt to 2x3 with hard shoulders. But it was repaved with neat new concrete a few years ago, and in reality - it is not expected to be upgraded anytime soon...


----------



## msz2

Timon91 said:


> 4000-8000 vehicles a day. Normally you don't even need a highway for that, but regarding the huge amount of trucks it might be a good idea, like X236K said.


But these figures was given for one direction.


----------



## Timon91

^^Ok, I don't speak Polish, so I didn't see that :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What's this? peak hour volumes?


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> What's this? peak hour volumes?


Warsaw / morning peak / cars per hour / October 2005


----------



## Mateusz

So today A1 from Tczew to Grudziądz will be opened  65 km :cheers:


----------



## X236K

Mateusz said:


> So today A1 from Tczew to Grudziądz will be opened  65 km :cheers:


Why is the A1 being built southwards, not northwards? I guess there is much more traffic in the south of Poland..?


----------



## ufonut

It's under construction in the south and north. Two pages back PLH posted some A1 construction photos in the south of Poland.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=666422&page=13


----------



## Rijeka

When will this part between Ostrava and Gliwice be completed? I see the Czechs have already reached the border...


----------



## X236K

Rijeka said:


> When will this part between Ostrava and Gliwice be completed? I see the Czechs have already reached the border...


Not yet 

The last stretch has been just started!


----------



## ufonut

-A1 węzeł Sośnica..................................... 2,2 km......05/2008 - 10/2009........................................J&P Avax
-A1 Gliwice Sośnica - Bełk.......................... 15,4 km.....02/2009 ......................................................J&P Avax www.a1.sosnica-belk.pl/
-A1 Bełk - Świerklany................................ 14,1 km......08/2008 - 05/2010.............STRABAG / HEILIT+WOERNER www.belk-swierklany.pl
A1 Świerklany - Gorzyczki......................... 18,3 km.....12/2009..Alpine Mayreder, Alpine Bau (D), Alpine stavebni společnost (Cz) www.a1.swierklany-gorzyczki.pl



Mid 2010 should be finished. If I am not mistaken most of them are 2x3 (6 lanes).


----------



## PLH

A1 Grudziądz - Toruń .............................. 62,4 km.....08/2008 - 12/2011 .........................................Skanska
-A1 węzeł Sośnica..................................... 2,2 km......05/2008 - 10/2009........................................J&P Avax
-A1 Gliwice Sośnica - Bełk.......................... 15,4 km.....02/2009 ......................................................J&P Avax www.a1.sosnica-belk.pl/
-A1 Bełk - Świerklany................................ 14,1 km......08/2008 - 05/2010.............STRABAG / HEILIT+WOERNER www.belk-swierklany.pl
-A1 Świerklany - Gorzyczki(CZ)......................... 18,3 km.....12/2009..Alpine Mayreder, Alpine Bau (D), Alpine stavebni společnost (Cz) www.a1.swierklany-gorzyczki.pl


^^ To be honest 

In other words - whole section between Gliwice and CZ is U/C


----------



## PLH

*19:38 A1 Tczew - Grudziądz is finally opened* :cheers:

Pics in an hour.


----------



## Sponsor

Up to date status! 









(broken line-construction)










*Motorways*

*built: 829,7 km*
construction: 199,0 km
planned: 2004,4 km
_____________________
progress: 41,4%












* Expressways*(single and double carriageways)

*built: 498,7 km*
construction: 233,3 km
planned: 5745 km
_____________________
progress: 8,7%


=============================================================

ALL STATISTICS AND MAPS ALSO HERE ---> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=345003&page=68


----------



## ChrisZwolle

DK18:


----------



## giorgio12

Yea... The best road in Poland...


----------



## Sponsor

The best of the worst


----------



## Timon91

There are only a few videos of that section, unfortunately. However, I can understand how difficult it is to hold a camera in one hand, and keep your car driving straight with the other hand on the wheel on such a road :lol:


----------



## ufonut

A4 U/C (Zgorzelec - Krzyżowa)







S8 U/C (Radzymin - Wyszkow) compilation by Robert_C


----------



## E2rdEm

ChrisZwolle said:


> DK18:


Someone should combine this ^^ video with this VV audio




Golec uOrkiestra - Sciernisco ("For now, there's only a field just after harvesting, but soon there will be San Francisco. See this mole-hill over there? There will be my bank.") :lol:
It would be the essence of Poland. I just love this hardcore. :nuts:


----------



## Timon91

ufonut said:


> A4 U/C (Zgorzelec - Krzyżowa)


First time I've seen a video from this section. It looks good! And the first song is really good, btw :lol: What is the name of that song?


----------



## Chris80678

I'm impressed with how fast the construction of A4 Zgorzelec - Krzyzowa is progressing :banana: - can't wait until Jan 09 when it's opened for public use :cheers: The green-painted flyovers are pretty too - so much prettier than dull grey concrete! ^^ This stretch is probably the most important piece of motorway to be nearing completion as by Jan 09 the trip from
Krakow, Wroclaw and Katowice conurbation will be finally be possibly by 
solely using motorway! At least the A4 will be a good alternative to the bumpy A18 so in a way it won't matter about the length of time it will take to
upgrade the A18 as drivers can just divert to the Zgorzelec border crossing rather than the one at Olszyna - so at least the A4 will be used a lot after Jan 09 :cheers:


----------



## vlker

Timon91 said:


> btw :lol: What is the name of that song?


It´s Fatboy Slim - Right here, right now


----------



## Timon91

^^Thanks :cheers:. I could have guessed "Right here, right now" :lol:


----------



## Mateusz

Jaś;26773538 said:


> Biedronki na A1 (węzeł Pelplin)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Węzeł Pelplin - widok od południa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skanska rusza dalej
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Widok w stronę Gdańska
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Węzeł Pelplin



First pics from new section of A1 :cheers:


----------



## Timon91

Is this section tolled?


----------



## Mateusz

No, for first 60 days is free and then will be tolled ^^


----------



## adas22

A1 (new section) by harthausen


















































rest area


----------



## Qwert

Those overpasses looks like there is reserve for 2x3. That's very clever planning.


----------



## PLH

^^ All new(and many older) motorways in Poland have 2x3 reserve


----------



## bebe.2006

A1: 160 today's pics by G0KU:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=487251&page=113

and

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=487251&page=114

like that:


----------



## mati162c

and now Poznań bypass is going to be upgraded to 2x3 due to the growing traffic...


----------



## Mateusz

The last pic is more likely facitility for motorway maintenance... not rest area  Or is it both ?


----------



## Timon91

Nice pics 
@ Mateusz: indeed, to me it doesn't look like a rest-area at all. However, we haven't had a good view of the whole area yet, so maybe it still is :dunno:


----------



## PLH

Timon91 said:


> @ Mateusz: indeed, to me it doesn't look like a rest-area at all. However, we haven't had a good view of the whole area yet, so maybe it still is :dunno:


No it's not a rest area, cause of this salt storage 'chapel'.

Here's the map: http://autostradaa1.pl/mapa_schematyczna/

house - rest area
spanner - road maintenance are

---------



mati162c said:


> and now Poznań bypass is going to be upgraded to 2x3 due to the growing traffic...


How do You know that?


----------



## mati162c

http://www.edroga.pl/content/view/6829/113/seo/Szerzej+na+obwodnicy+Poznania
or http://miasta.gazeta.pl/poznan/1,36001,5701689,
Poszerza_autostradowa_obwodnice_Poznania.html?ptr=cn&skad=rss


----------



## Mateusz

Contract for construction 14 km of S7 expressway from Elblag to Paslek (North of Poland) is signed


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Those S-roads seems to be progressing for small sections at the time.


----------



## PLH

^^ It's because different sections of S roads are at different stages of preparation, and at the end of the day the strategy of shorter sections turns out to be more effective.


----------



## msz2

Mateusz said:


> Contract for construction 14 km of S7 expressway from Elblag to Paslek (North of Poland) is signed


Who is the general contractor?


----------



## LMB

*Those unimportant border villages*



ChrisZwolle said:


> Yeah, for me, those tiny border villages is the only major bad thing about Polish signage. Domestic destinations are signed pretty well.


Well, in Poznań, half way between Berlin and Warszawa, there were in-town signs for Berlin next to the obligatory (and ridiculed) Świecko, but when the HWY opened in 200x?, they had to replace all the signs, and thus Berlin was gone.

I intended to take some pics, but that never materialized. Any old pics anyone? Hint, Al. Niepodległości.

PS To those unaware, Germans put Warschau, Amsterdam, Paris, Luettich (Liege) on their highways. The only thing I would wish that Liege wasn't in German, it isn't so easy to guess.


----------



## PLH

msz2 said:


> Who is the general contractor?


Consortium of:

1. EUROVIA POLSKA S.A. 
2. EUROVIA Verkehrsbau Union GmbH
3. Warbud S.A.
4. PU-T „OL-TRANS”
5. Drogomex Sp. z o.o


----------



## LMB

mati162c said:


> and now Poznań bypass is going to be upgraded to 2x3 due to the growing traffic...


Can I ask for the source? This section indeed feels like a Dutch motorway on Monday monring


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Bumper to bumper traffic?


----------



## PLH

^^ Almost 




LMB said:


> Can I ask for the source?





mati162c said:


> http://www.edroga.pl/content/view/6829/113/seo/Szerzej+na+obwodnicy+Poznania
> or http://miasta.gazeta.pl/poznan/1,36001,5701689,
> Poszerza_autostradowa_obwodnice_Poznania.html?ptr=cn&skad=rss


----------



## Timon91

ChrisZwolle said:


> Those S-roads seems to be progressing for small sections at the time.


It seems like they first construct a bypass for every town and city that needs one, and for the rest they'll see later on.


----------



## PLH

More or less yes, but that's not a principle. 

Many S roads(like this one) are regular 1x2 DK roads upgraded to 2x2 standards and thus there may be difficulties when consulting with by-the-road inhabitants


----------



## Verso

PLH said:


> ^^ It's because different sections of S roads are at different stages of preparation, and at the end of the day the strategy of shorter sections turns out to be more effective.


The same as here, unlike in Croatia, for example, where they build long sections. That's why everyone thinks Croatia has more motorways than Slovenia for its size, although it isn't true.


----------



## Timon91

^^Do you think that the Croats are your rivals? 

And for the S-road constuction: it helps getting the transit traffic out of town, which is a big advantage. A big disadvantage is of course that you hardly make any progress and that you'll still have to connect all bypasses later on.


----------



## Verso

Timon91 said:


> ^^Do you think that the Croats are your rivals?


Yeah, they always boast around how much more motorways they have, when it's not even true.


----------



## Mateusz

Bula8 said:


> Kilka fotek z w. Sośnica
> 
> Widok z porannego korka na dźwigi, palownice...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...i żurawie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zjechaliśmy na Pszczyńską
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Teraz wracamy do Katowic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ten przyczółek jest giiigantyczny :nuts:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Na drugą stronę średnie zdjęcie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kolejny "las"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pozdro


Sośnica Interchange will be massive ! :cheers:


----------



## vlker

Mateusz said:


> Sośnica Interchange will be massive ! :cheers:


Is this interchange A4xA1? I really look forward to seeing the whole section Lipník nad Bečvou - Gliwice completed. It would be much more comfortable from Brno to Silesia Now it´s quite annoying - czech I/48 and then polish "almost" motorways with traffic lights. 

But after completing, I am quite affraid, that there will raise intensities from Poland via Olomouc and Brno to typical holiday destinations like Alps and Medditerranen and the traffic problem will move to Brno bypass and stretch Brno-Wien. Both project (widening of Brno bypass and R52/A5 Brno-Wien) are in planning, but very far from realizing. Of course except stretch A5 Wien-Shrick which is under construction.


----------



## PLH

vlker said:


> Is this interchange A4xA1?


Yes


----------



## ufonut

Poznan-Kornik expressway (U/C)
























































Kornik means "chicken coup". The town is home to a beautiful castle.


----------



## Mateusz

I was in Kórnik on school trip couple of years ago, castle is really beautiful 


Today contract for the rest of Motorway Bypass of Wrocław (A8) was signed ! :cheers: This last section will have about 19 km and cost of it is 2 050 104 044, 61 PLN, so it about 569,435,383 EUR :cheers:


----------



## Timon91

^^That's good news! And does that Poznan-Kornik Expy have any number?


----------



## PLH

^^ S11


----------



## Sponsor

Obviously it does - S11


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## ufonut

Contract for Bielsko-Biala bypass (part of S69 expressway from BB to Żywiec ) was signed.

Cost - 1 253 mln zl (around 500 million $)
Length - 11.9 km


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## Matz32Z

S8 Warszawa-Bialystok (Wyszkow baypass) Opening 11.2008



ViaBaltic1 said:


> W związku z planowanym na listopad otwarciem obodnicy Wyszkowa, udałem się aby ocenić postęp prac tuż przed oddaniem tego fragmentu S8 do użytku.
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## Verso

Matz32Z said:


> ViaBaltic1 said:
Click to expand...

The emergency lane is even wider than the driving lanes!


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## Sponsor

Verso said:


> The emergency lane is even wider than the driving lanes!


OMG! How do you know that? 
The S-roads lanes ar 3,50 m wide but I'm curious why didn't they make 3,75 as on motorway is.


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## Mateusz

This emergency lane is so wide, myabe they consider upgrade to 2X3 in future or something


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## Sponsor

Mateusz said:


> This emergency lane is so wide, myabe they consider upgrade to 2X3 in future or something


Then we get 3 lanes but no emergency lane. So upgrading will demand pavement's widenenig.


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## ChrisZwolle

A wide em lane can become hulpful when you want to carry out roadworks on one carriageway. You can eventually work with the 4-0 situation (4 lanes on one carriageway), so the same capacity remains available.


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## PLH

*A4*

Towards Dresden:


The interchange:



Towards Wrocław: Slightly a difference, huh? 








Movie (12.10.2008) http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=jPv5fZyMLoE[/QUOTE]


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## bebe.2006

S22. We stand on the border and wait the Russians open the border checkpoint.


bartosz_berlinka said:


> Source: www.ubekistan.pl/thumbnails.php?album=13


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## Verso

^^ So who uses this new road all the way to the border (except those curious)?


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## Timon91

Not many, I think. There is a 'bigger' town along the way, Braniewo, but it won't generate lots of traffic.


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## PLH

Verso said:


> ^^ So who uses this new road all the way to the border (except those curious)?


People living there? I know there're not many of them but do not forget that this road was to lead from Berlin via Stettin and Danzig to Königsberg


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## golov

Some nice looking infrastructure kay:


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## Matz32Z

A4 Zgorzelec-Kryzyzowa
Nowe foty na http://www.zgorzelec-krzyzowa.pl/gallery.aspx
KONTRAKT A:cheers:


Fragment drogi wewnętrznej DrW 20 wzdłuż autostrady 










Jezdnia lewa w betonie nawierzchniowym na prawej jezdni chudy beton w km 5+000-5+500 










Maszyna do wykańczania ułożonej w-wy betonu nawierzchniowego 










MOP Pn - roboty bitumiczne 










Odcinek A4 w betonie B40 i chudym betonie w km 12+000-13+000 










Rozkładanie geotkaniny na jezdni lewej pod w-wę betonu B40 w km 14+680 










Układanie betonu B40 nocą 










Układanie betonu B40 w km 14+400-14+560 










Układanie nocą II w-wy betonu nawierzchniowego 










WD-22 przygotowanie powierzchni betonu do malowania 










Widok na obiekr MA 15 










Widok na Obiekt PZ 8 










Widok na obiekt WD 6 










Widok uszorstnionej nawierzchni betonowej B40 










Zespół maszyn do układania naw. B40 - widok ogólny 










Łacznica nr 1 do węzła Godzieszów 










Łącznica Nr 1 i Nr 2 na węźle Godzieszów 










Łącznice Nr 1,2 3, 4 na węźle Godzieszów


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## ChrisZwolle

> wzdłuż


:nuts: 

When does this section open?


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## Majestic

ChrisZwolle said:


> :nuts:


I bet half of Poles would find it difficult to spell correctly :lol:




ChrisZwolle said:


> When does this section open?


According to the plan, it's 11.2008.

http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/dane/standia.pdf
Here's a summary of all contracts for road construction in Poland


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## Timon91

^^That's within a month. I doubt that they'll make that. Mateusz said earlier it would be next february or march :dunno:


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## Mateusz

Yep, Contract B is well with schedule but Contract A is behind


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## mati162c

yeah, one part is far far in behind due to some problems (don't remember what kind of)


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## Mateusz

Most up to date map of polish roads (24/10/2008), only this map provides real state of polish infrastructure :cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

Isn't the S11 Poznan - Kornik opened yet?


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## Majestic

ChrisZwolle said:


> Isn't the S11 Poznan - Kornik opened yet?


Not yet, they're still working on a short section bypassing Kórnik, which includes 2 brand new junctions. The pre-existing section has already been upgraded and repaved :cheers:


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## Timon91

It's nice to have such an updated map every once in a while, in a country that is building and opening roads very much :cheers:


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## Mateusz

Yes, we have even in our forum, in road infrastructure section a sticky thread about statistics of development and history of polish motorways and expressways with information about contracts, construction, biddings and so on


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## Timon91

^^Well, you need it, with so many new roads. I just wish we could build our A4 MD and A6/A9 tunnel connection that quickly. We only need such a map every 10 years or something.


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## Mateusz

Yes but the thing is that Western Europe countries are highly developed, these extensive road networks are already built from 20,30 years. In UK forum there was not even a decent topic about motorways. We are at the stage of building our infrastructures here in Eastern Europe


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## Timon91

^^Yeah, it's amazing what you guys did in the last few years  Poland's infrastructure might be up to western standards within 5 to 10 years, if all goes by plan :cheers:


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## Timon91

Because they're all expressways 
There are lots of rules for motorways, expy's have a little more 'freedom' considering rules.


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## PLH

X236K said:


> Why there are almost no highways near Warszawa?


Ekhmmm... I don't know either.. But instead for that we have some Expressways, which is almost the same.


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## X236K

I see.. so it's the same issue as in CZ with the definition of highways, motorways, expressways...?


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## PLH

^^ Yes, but you have 130 km/h on both, and we have this stupid 110 km/h on expressways noone follows...


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## Timon91

And there are of course other differences between motorways and expy's, like more narrow lanes, steeper curves, tighter curves, and so on.


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## X236K

PLH said:


> ^^ Yes, but you have 130 km/h on both, and we have this stupid 110 km/h on expressways noone follows...


Is the speedlimit the only difference? By the way, I noticed that people in Poland barely follow 130 kmph either! The same as Czechs...


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## PLH

X236K said:


> Is the speedlimit the only difference?





Timon91 said:


> And there are of course other differences between motorways and expy's, like more narrow lanes, steeper curves, tighter curves, and so on.





X236K said:


> By the way, I noticed that people in Poland barely follow 130 kmph either! The same as Czechs...


We generally don't follow any speed limits so the motorway is last place to worry about:nuts:


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## Timon91

^^Yeah, Polish drivers are generally not the best behaved drivers in Europe :lol:


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## ChrisZwolle

PLH said:


> We generally don't follow any speed limits so the motorway is last place to worry about:nuts:


That's probably also why Poland usually ranks very low at traffic safety lists


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## Majestic

> We generally don't follow any speed limits so the motorway is last place to worry about


It's just that people tend to think that if they drive a bit faster than given sped limit, it's still safe and noone gets hurt...until actually someone does get hurt.


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## X236K

Majestic said:


> It's just that people tend to think that if they drive a bit faster than given sped limit, it's still safe and noone gets hurt...until actually someone does get hurt.


My experience is that in both Poland and Czech people do not respect speed limits (and rules generaly) at all. In nordic countries, you barely see anyone speeding at 150 kmph while in EE this is almost an average speed.


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## Jakub Warszauer

X236K said:


> Why there are almost no highways near Warszawa?


I hope this will answer your doubts 









Those marked with [*S*x] are expressways. All will be at least 2x3. 

Then there are so called GP-roads (droga *G*łówna ruchu *P*rzyspieszonego - _Main road of accelareted movement_). All of them will be at least 2x2, most of them with main route at least elevated above crossings, but full interchages also occur.

A good example of a GP-road is Trasa Siekierkowska (_Siekierkowska Route_) which with such an interchange:








(forget the dates - they might start the final, blue part this autmn)

As you can see - there will be a crossing with lights (roundabout)... but still quite an _express_-route...


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## Mateusz

As you can see on previous maps, S8 Konotopa-Powazkowska is under construction and there is a bidding for S2 Pulawska-Lotnisko and S79 too

Probably it was discussed hundred of times in polish forum but why S8 can't go on route of Trasa Mostu Północnego (Northern Bridge Route) ?


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## vlker

Jakub Warszauer said:


>


I like this interchange very much. You Poles are just fascinated with these complicated interchanges?:lol: Another example is A4xA1 near Gliwice. 
But no offense...I like it


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## Mateusz

Well, Sośnica Interchange in Gliwice will also take national road DK44, in future there is also plans to build collective lanes for A4 in western direction so... it has to be big  Well, it's nothing wrong if we will have one massive interchange


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## Jakub Warszauer

Mateusz said:


> Probably it was discussed hundred of times in polish forum but why S8 can't go on route of Trasa Mostu Północnego (Northern Bridge Route) ?


Well... actually I've never seen this particular discussion on SSC. And I don't want to carry on an OT. 

My general answer: no idea.


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## X236K

Jakub Warszauer said:


> I hope this will answer your doubts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All will be at least 2x3.


So, which of them do exist now? 

Anyway, it seems that Poland will face the same problem as Czech, I mean that there will be two kinds of roads which are almost the same quality but just "highways" will be listed on the maps. People will think that there are no modern roads in Poland.


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## Jakub Warszauer

X236K said:


> So, which of them do exist now?


*Here* you are. 

Generally speaking:
- red - existing
- orange - under construction
- green - ongoing tender
- pale blue - advanced administrative process
- purple - ongoing analisys / lack of information / proposed projects

I've been working on it for a while, but it is still not 100% ready: not all sections are included & not all information applied. I do it for my NGO and I have to do something else except writing on SSC and non-profit work.


But!
Even some existing roads are now marked somewhat-else-than-red, because of their planned upgrade. An example here is northern bypass (marked pale blue). Now it is a nice GP-road, but it will be upgraded to a full expressway.



X236K said:


> Anyway, it seems that Poland will face the same problem as Czech, I mean that there will be two kinds of roads which are almost the same quality but just "highways" will be listed on the maps. People will think that there are no modern roads in Poland.


I agree with you.


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## Mateusz

Jakub Warszauer said:


> Well... actually I've never seen this particular discussion on SSC. And I don't want to carry on an OT.
> 
> My general answer: no idea.


This discussion was quite long ago, about 2003 or something :nuts: I just found it by looking on old posts from topics about planned routes in Warsaw :cheers:


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## ufonut

X236K said:


> Anyway, it seems that Poland will face the same problem as Czech, I mean that there will be two kinds of roads which are almost the same quality but just "highways" will be listed on the maps. People will think that there are no modern roads in Poland.


Currently we have 1200km listed as highways and expressways and 600km U/C (highways/expressays) but we also have around 2000km of roads classified as DK (droga krajowa). In many other countries some of them would be listed as full blown highways. Not so in Poland. Nevermind highways they are not even up to our inflated expressway standards. 

Great example is DTS (Drogowa Trasa Srednicowa) whichg is 2*3 crossing Upper Silesian conturbation. It is neither a highway nor an expressway because it has too many exits.


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## ChrisZwolle

By highway, you mean an Autostrada?


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## Mateusz

DTS should be a expressway... like S911 or something but law is constructed in that way there can't a three digit numberation for expressways


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## jakup

ChrisZwolle said:


> By highway, you mean an Autostrada?


Yeah, I think he meant that
3/4 (correct me if I'm wrong) of the DTŚ isn't even a national road - it's just DW902 (droga wojewódzka - voivodeship road~) :nuts:

The most significant difference between autostrada and droga ekspresowa is the lane width - 3,75 m for A and 3,5 m for S; if you can understand Polish - well - I don't think so, there are pretty difficult words, too  - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=565578&page=2 post #22


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## Timon91

Does DTS have any number? DKxx or sth?


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ He just said it's DW 902


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## PLH

The problem we face is that despite having few motorways(autostrada) statistics show even less than there actually are.

Officially we have *761,3 km *of A roads in operation and *210,5 km *U/C

But if we would say that all S 2x2 and all 2x2 roads with flyovers are A, then we would have *1200 km* of A roads in operation and *470 km *U/C !


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## Timon91

I see now. I had this window still opened and jakup already answered my question before I asked it :lol:


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## ChrisZwolle

PLH said:


> The problem we face is that despite having few motorways(autostrada) statistics show even less than there actually are.
> 
> Officially we have *761,3 km *of A roads in operation and *210,5 km *U/C
> 
> But if we would say that all S 2x2 and all 2x2 roads with flyovers are A, then we would have *1200 km* of A roads in operation and *470 km *U/C !


A common problem in a lot of countries, road maps only show the "real" motorways, for instance, look at Google Earth to Spain from a distance and you'll notice only a few motorways, while when you zoom in a lot, there are many more. This is also an issue in countries like France, Poland, Czech Republic and others.


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## Chrissib

But what is the reason for a country to establish motorways and motorroads. Here in Germany we only have very few motorroads, and they are usually federal or state roads.


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## PLH

^^ Our expressways are toll free, that's why. Maybe the EU electronic toll system will make us rename S to A


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## Timon91

From a certain altitude, this is what I get on GE:










Only motorways visible, no expy's


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## Mateusz

Timon91 said:


> Does DTS have any number? DKxx or sth?


It is signed as DTŚ by this logo ^^


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## PLH

^^As it has different numbers on different sections.


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## Mateusz

The best way would be just put DTŚ on red bakgroud, as other road numbers and add expressway sign to it, but no, not in Poland... maybe law will be chaged somewhen in future


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## Jakub Warszauer

Trasa Siekierkowska / _Siekierkowska Route_ intersection on right bank of Vistula:


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## Sponsor

Mateusz said:


> The best way would be just put DTŚ on red bakgroud, as other road numbers and add expressway sign to it, but no, not in Poland... maybe law will be chaged somewhen in future


It's GP class so you can drive 100 km/h on there so ot's not that bad. If the intersections were not that close as it is today it could be S-way. Weird law about that :dunno:


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## PLH

^^ It could as well be A with 100 km/h(just like A4 in Katowice, not far from DTŚ), it still a lot as for such densely populated area.


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## Mateusz

There is something like a urban motorway ? So DTS could be too as well, or at least expressway... but no there must something different  

So on DTS junctions are closer than on expressways ? Is there in Poland term of urban expressway, I think there is a urban motorway like in Katowice area


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## PLH

Mateusz said:


> So on DTS junctions are closer than on expressways ?


Yes, that's why it's not S.

As to urban S/A we don't have them, A4 in Katowice is a motorway just because whole section around it is one.


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## Verso

Do you guys have some pics of Warsaw expressways?


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## PLH

S8 U/C http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=466496&page=85

Siekierkowska Route:
































kafarek said:


>





koszatek said:


> Trochę zdjęć z wczoraj.


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## adas22

Verso said:


> Do you guys have some pics of Warsaw expressways?


Those are some non colision roads in Warsaw

Trasa Łazienkowska


















Trasa Siekierkowska











































Wisłostrada


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## Timon91

Nice pics guys. Looks good! There are some very nice bridges over there. Unfortunately also some graffiti artists (something that we in the Netherlands are also not entirely free of hno


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## Verso

Thanks for the pics, guys. Very colorful.  Why is there a staircase in the Warszawski tunnel? Do you also have pics of old expressways?


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## Jakub Warszauer

Verso said:


> Thanks for the pics, guys. Very colorful.  Why is there a staircase in the Warszawski tunnel?


Firstly, there is a bus stop there. 
Secondly, safety measures.


Verso said:


> Do you also have pics of old expressways?


Meaning which?
An old expressway might be Warsaw-Katowice Route aka _Trasa Katowicka_ aka _Gierkówka_, build in 70'. It is classified today as a GP-road. Only small parts were modernised to highway or expressway standards.

Regards,


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## Mateusz

Part of Gierkowka, from Piotrkow to Czestochowa will be upgraded to motorway standard (A1), I hope it will be 2X3


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## Sponsor

Mateusz said:


> Part of Gierkowka, from Piotrkow to Czestochowa will be upgraded to motorway standard (A1), I hope it will be 2X3


This is the only connection between Warsaw and Upper Silesia and also the best way to get to the mountains driving from north. I hope it will be 2x3. But from the other hand it will be toll m'way so traffic is going to be not as much as we could suppose.


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## PLH

Verso said:


> Do you also have pics of old expressways?


These roads were called expressways before year 2000:

DK 8 Warszawa - Piotrków Trybunalski




























Memorial of soldiers of Polish People's army that built that road:


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## Verso

^^ Nice pics, but I meant old expressways _in Warsaw_.


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## Mateusz

Well, Łazienkowska Route was constructed in 70s, Part of Toruńska Route was constructed in 80s as well


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## Verso

I once had a small book about Warsaw (no idea where it is :no, with a photo of an expressway, and there was an exit for Mokotów (or sth like that). 

PS: you have a bus stop in a tunnel? Isn't that dangerous?


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## Mateusz

I think it can be Siekierkowska Route or Dolina Służewiecka (built in 80s?) but I think people from Warsaw will answer better than me


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## Jakub Warszauer

Verso said:


> I once had a small book about Warsaw (no idea where it is :no, with a photo of an expressway, and there was an exit for Mokotów (or sth like that).


Firstly, Mokotów - one of best addresses in the city.

Secondly... it must have been either big interchange of _Puławska st._/_Rzymowskiego st._/_Dolina Służewiecka st_ (from south) or _Trasa Łazienkowska_ (from north).



Verso said:


> PS: you have a bus stop in a tunnel? Isn't that dangerous?


Watch the film again. The bus stop has its own parking bay. And it is longer that it seems from the movie.

Regards,


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## Verso

I haven't yet seen a bus stop in a tunnel though. I hope the air to breathe isn't that bad.


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## bebe.2006

4,5 km more of highway A2 from Lodz to Warszawa, expected to be open on 15th december as baypass of the town Strykow, in which now you have a terrible trafic jam. It is indeed a part of A1 and A2:



Rusonaldo said:


> Fotki z obwodnicy Strykowa
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> 
> wiadukt nad Dk 14


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## Majestic

^^As if it couldn't have been done years ago while section Konin-Lodz was being built:bash:
It would have saved not only the nerves of the drivers but also saved inhabitants from trucks driving next to their windows 24/7. Not even mentioning the costs...:bash:


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## adas22

DTS in Katowice


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## adas22

Trasa W/Z in Warsaw.


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## Mateusz

3+3 ! Looks great, I thought it it would be 2+2 mnore likely


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## E2rdEm

Verso said:


> I once had a small book about Warsaw (no idea where it is :no, with a photo of an expressway, and there was an exit for Mokotów (or sth like that).


You probably mean this view of Trasa Łazienkowska, but an older photo. This view was very popular on pictures from the 1970s...


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## Chris80678

Wow! Krzyzowa interchange looks great - the flyovers 
(apart from the ugly brown one in the first photo) look pristine and clean :banana:. I think we can safely say that Kyzyzowa interchange is completely finished and that drivers could easily turn off the A18 and follow the A4 up to Wykroty interchange. I wonder if Zgorzelec interchange looks as nice? I'm sure I don't why it's taking so long to complete the concreting of
the carriageways between Wykroty interchange and Zgorzelec hno: 
This is why the opening of the motorway has been delayed until January :nuts:


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## PLH

Chris80678 said:


> (apart from the ugly brown one in the first photo)


This is the original 1936 german viaduct and still doing very well.


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## PLH

I'm glad that our A4 is far better than the German one :banana:

Windmills and the end of concrete indicates Germany:


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## Timon91

:lol: That's also what I remember - windmills = Germany


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## bebe.2006

Start of the construction of S6 baypass of the town Słupsk 



alchemik said:


>


more: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=188024&page=9


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## Matz32Z

A4 Zgorzelec Krzyzowa



Matz32Z said:


> Dzieki za fotki i czekamy na nastepne  Troche juz przestarzalych (30.10.08) zdjec pojawilo sie na oficjalnej stronie-Kotrakt B
> http://www.zgorzelec-krzyzowa.pl
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> Beton nawierzchniowy km 30+500 nitka prawa
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> 
> Nasadzenia drzew i krzewów km 22+000
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nasadzenia krzewów na OUA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wycieczka techniczana z Politechniki Wrocławskiej przy PZ 51


----------



## Mateusz

I hope they will open one part soon :cheers:


----------



## Timon91

Has all concrete been laid now so they only have to do (shiny) crashbarriers, (thick) markings, etc?


----------



## Verso

No, Radi has yet to approve it. :lol:


----------



## Timon91

Ahh, that's why it takes so long :lol:


----------



## Verso

Yep, he isn't impressed with concrete. :lol:


----------



## Timon91

If Radi is in charge I think the markings will be app. 2 cms thick. And the crashbarriers will be polished daily of course :lol:


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## Verso

It's Poland, of course they will be _polished_.


----------



## bebe.2006

In England they have Stonehenge and in Poland  :



koszatek said:


>


Pictures of unfinished A2 Lodz-Warszawa highway. Constuctions attempt in 1970's:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=112037&page=99


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## PLH

^^ The new one is starting spring 2009


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## Timon91

Didn't they try to finish the entire A2 (Swiecko-Terespol) for the Olympic games in 1980 (Moscow)?


----------



## Sponsor

Indeed they did  The advantage is that corridor for new m'way is already estabilished. I don't know if these old concrete posts are going to be used (renovated) or demolished to be built anew (???).


----------



## PLH

^^ They're in such a poor condition they'll be demolished most likely. BTW Now we use new technologies and so many posts are not needed.

As to the Olimipics, we managed to build only 50 km of A2, but a few years after them, what a shame :lol:


----------



## Timon91

Those pillars are most likely going to be demolished an build anew. It's safer to do this and it might save later costs


----------



## bebe.2006

S8 east from Warszawa. To be open in next few weeks:



ViaBaltic1 said:


> Kilka zdjęć z odcinka Radzymin-Wyszków


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Oekraïne  ï (Ukraine)


----------



## Timon91

Yeah, I guess there are a few others with the so called "trema". 
Can "Oekraïne" actually be seen as a real Dutch word? It's Dutch, but I guess it comes from Ukraine's original name (in Ukrainian). We also have "überhaupt" in Dutch, a word that obviously comes from German.


----------



## Majestic

Verso said:


> Worse than Hungarian and Albanian.


Say what you say Verso, hungarian is by far the most horrible and difficult language I have ever dealt with hno:
A few hungarians I know tried to teach me some expressions and I couldn't even pronounce them correctly :nuts:, the only one I learnt was _bazd meg_, but I won't tell you the meaning :lol:


----------



## Verso

I meant all these special characters.


----------



## bebe.2006

S3 Szczecin-Gorzow. Nitice the _crocodiles_ in operation:




JacYk said:


> *Fotki z dn.13.11.2008r.*
> 
> *Cz.1*
> 
> Trzynastego pogoda dopisała...
> Ponownie odcinek, który ostatnio fociłem, ale tym razem z innej perspektywy, troszkę dokładniej, a przede wszystkim wyraźniej.
> Poniżej dwie mapki poglądowe z zaznaczonym fragmentem ujętym w fotorelacji. Kierowałem się od Szczecina w stronę Gorzowa WLKP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kierunek Gorzów, miejsce to przejście budowanej S3 przez obecną DK3, tuż przed Torfowiskiem Chłopiny (teren widoczny w głębi zdjęcia).
> 
> 
> 
> W tym samym miejscu, obrót w stronę Szczecina.
> 
> 
> 
> Ujęcie tego samego miejsca, ale bardziej z prawej strony, a w tle widoczna budowa WE/PZ-52.
> 
> 
> Ponowny obrót w stronę Gorzowa.
> 
> 
> 
> Okolice tego samego miejsca (czyli początek przyszłej przekładki DK3), widok w kierunku Gorzowa, widziany z DK3.
> 
> 
> Zbliżenie na rejon Torfowiska Chłopiny.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obrót w kierunku Szczecina.
> 
> 
> 
> Widok w kierunku Szczecina. Jesteśmy na początku obszaru Torfowiska Chłopiny (za plecami), granice wyznacza droga w kierunku wsi Dalsze. A tak przy okazji, ciekawe ile pojazdów posiada firma Koliber z Międzyrzecza? Ilość ich pojazdów na tym odcinku mnie szokuje.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obrót do tyłu w kierunku Gorzowa i mamy pełen widok na Torfowisko Chłopiny. Po lewej WE/PZ-53 w budowie.
> 
> 
> W dali widać drugie przejście S3 przez obecną DK3.
> 
> 
> Zbliżenie na We/PZ-53
> 
> 
> Widok w kierunku Gorzowa na WE/PZ-53, ale bliżej DK3 (po lewej).
> 
> 
> 
> Obrót w prawo, tak jak biegnie droga w kierunku wsi Dalsze.
> 
> 
> Przenosimy się mniej więcej na środek Torfowiska Chłopiny. Widok w kierunku Gorzowa.
> 
> 
> 
> Obrót w stronę Szczecina.
> 
> 
> Zbliżenie na WE/PZ-53
> 
> 
> Teraz jesteśmy w miejscu drugiego przejścia S3 przez obecną DK3. Widok na torfowisko w kierunku Szczecina.
> 
> 
> 
> Obrót w kierunku Gorzowa i widok z DK3 na początek budowanej drogi tymczasowej. W tym miejscu S3 będzie przecinać obecną DK3, a która w ostatecznym wariancie zostanie tu przełożona obok (po prawej) wybudowanej drogi ekspresowej.
> 
> 
> 
> Widok na budowaną drogę tymczasową, kierunek Gorzów.
> 
> 
> Zbliżenie na PZ-54a.
> 
> 
> Obrót w kierunku Szczecina.
> 
> 
> 
> Jesteśmy bliżej Auto Baru (z kozami). Widok w kierunku Szczecina.
> 
> 
> 
> Obrót w kierunku Gorzowa.
> 
> 
> Zbliżenie, a w dali "punkt widokowy" za którym znajduje się słynny bar.
> 
> 
> Pełno "krokodyli" w akcji
> 
> 
> Całyczas zbliżamy się do Auto Baru. Widok w kierunku Szczecina.
> 
> 
> Tu prawdopodobnie będzie PZ-54c. Widok w kierunku Gorzowa.
> 
> 
> 
> W tym samym miejscu obrót w kierunku Szczecina.
> 
> 
> 
> "Górka" z innej perspektywy, Gorzów na wprost.
> 
> 
> Na wysokości baru, widok z DK3 w kierunku Szczecina.
> 
> 
> Tuż za barem, widok w kierunku Gorzowa.
> 
> 
> 
> Kolejne zbliżenie i w dali (białe elementy w ziemi) to budowa WE/PZ-55, a jeszcze dalej (tam gdzie widać pojazdy), powstaną PZ-56, a tuż za nim PZ-56a i PZ-57 (ale zagęszczenie obiektów):nuts:.
> 
> 
> Obrót do tyłu w kierunku Szczecina i widok na bar (miałem wrażenie, jak bym był w górach):lol:.
> 
> 
> *cdn...*


----------



## Majestic

The construction site looks massive and the corridor seems enormously wide :nuts:
BTW, what's that huge, grey pile?


----------



## RS.ban

what kind of trucks are those green trucks? who produces them


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It looks like they're making a 20 lane motorway there. The corridor looks like if it's 200 meters wide, while 2x2 only needs like 25 meters.


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

Well... S3 was meant to be *A*3 (full highway)... but something changed during late 90'. 

Anyway, the corridor and earth works should be done for 2x3 now. Usually they leave the gap between the lanes. Widening will be much easier.


----------



## Verso

Thank god for trees there aren't many motorways in Poland.


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

Verso said:


> Thank god for trees there aren't many motorways in Poland.


For those interested:
% of land covered by forests in Poland: 28,7% (and raising, target for year 2020: 30%; 2050: 33%).


----------



## ufonut

Wyszkow bypass


----------



## Verso

Jakub Warszauer said:


> For those interested:
> % of land covered by forests in Poland: 28,7% (and raising, target for year 2020: 30%; 2050: 33%).


Slovenia - 55%.  (sorry for OT :cheers


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I believe Slovenia is the third most forested country in Europe (after Sweden and Finland).


----------



## Verso

^ Correct. I made a mistake though, it's 65%. 

The Wyszkow bypass looks great, very black. Even Radi would like it.


----------



## Timon91

That's a whole lot of pics on the previous page. Looks good though, and indeed very wide. At least they got the space for it. Next page now


----------



## E2rdEm

ChrisZwolle said:


> It looks like they're making a 20 lane motorway there. The corridor looks like if it's 200 meters wide, while 2x2 only needs like 25 meters.


No, the corridor for a 2x2 road is about 40-45 m wide. You must include the space for roadside trench. If you want some fences or trees along the road, it would be even more.



Jakub Warszauer said:


> Anyway, the corridor and earth works should be done for 2x3 now.


The corridor for 2x3 would be over 50m.

Additionally, in this particular place there is also space for relocation of current national road DK3. As you can see on the pics, current DK3 crosses the S3 construction site several times. DK3 must be relocated to one side of the expressway to avoid the need to build overpasses. So that's another 20 m at least. I'm not sure if there is also planned a local road on the other side of the expressway - if so, even 90 m corridor would be needed...


----------



## adas22

A4 in Silesia


----------



## Timon91

Beautiful pics. Please resize next time, I don't have a very wide screen :lol:


----------



## RS.ban

Verso said:


> ^ Correct. I made a mistake though, it's 65%.
> 
> The Wyszkow bypass looks great, very black. Even Radi would like it.


here


> 62.8% —or about 1,264,000 hectares—of Slovenia is forested


----------



## Sponsor

@adas22 isn't that Kraków bypass on first picture??


----------



## Verso

RS.ban said:


> here
> 
> 
> 
> 62.8% —or about 1,264,000 hectares—of Slovenia is forested
Click to expand...

The most recent data is 65%.



adas22 said:


>


What a mess.


----------



## Timon91

^^I remember the S7 u/c and being an incredible mess as well :lol:


----------



## dopeman1

Sponsor said:


> @adas22 isn't that Kraków bypass on first picture??


Yes it is.


----------



## Matz32Z

adas jak cytujesz jakies zdjecia to moze razem z tym czyje sa ??

A4 ZGORZELEC-KRZYZOWA



Borek said:


> A4 Zgorzelec - Krzyzowa 2008.11.11 - Czesc 4
> Okolice wiaduktu WD13 w Przesieczanach (droga wojewodzka DW326). Polecam przejezdzajacym przez DK4, wiadukt jest ok 200 metrow od DK4, ruchu prawie zero, wiec mozna sobie, prawie nie tracac czasu, skrecic na chwile na DW326 i rzucic okiem na nowa A4
> 
> Dla przypomnienia mapka, gdzie robie zdjecia z numerkami czesci fotorelacji.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Widok z WD13 w kierunku Zgorzelca/Drezna
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Widok z WD13 w kierunku Zgorzelca/Drezna - zoom na jezdnie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Widok z WD13 w kierunku Wroclawia - ale zaraz zaraz, co tu sie dzieje?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Widok z WD13 w kierunku Wroclawia - zoom - dojechali z betonem prawie do WD13!!! Rzut oka na powyzsza mapke - 11 km autostrady. Biorac poprawke, ze na wezle Zgorzelec tez juz troszke bylo, to mniej wiecej 10 km do polozenia i bedzie koniec!
> A tak przy okazji, cytujac atrykul z gazety (sprzed kilku dni - post 3159):
> "...Tymczasem niemiecka firma GP Günter Papenburg AG zabrała specjalistyczną maszynę do wylewania betonowej nawierzchni. W jej siedzibie w Esseler włączona jest automatyczna sekretarka. Na budowie w Polsce słychać głosy, że Niemcy mieli dosyć przestojów i braku frontu robót..." - jak widac, nie zniknela, ma sie dobrze i pracuje na pelnych obrotach. Ot rzetelnosc dziennikarska.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Borek said:
> 
> 
> 
> A4 Zgorzelec - Krzyzowa 2008.11.11 - Czesc 6
> Wezel Godzieszow + droga wojewodzka DW296. Kilka postow wczesniej byla nadmieniona informacja o przebudowie drogi. Sytuacja stanu obecnego.
> 
> Rondo DK4/DW296. Droga zamknieta w kierunku Lubania.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pierwszy kawalek DW296. Na poczatku nowy asfalt, jeszcze z czasow budowy ronda. Jak widac droga zamknieta. W tle WA18.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DW296 tuz przed WA18. Jak widac droga w nienaruszonym stanie od sporego czasu.
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> WA18 od poludnia. W tle rondo z DK4.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dopiero za Godzieszowem wbita tablica o remoncie DW296. Tak dla niedowiarkow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dojezdzamy do wezla Godzieszow. Rondo DW296 z wjazdem na wezel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jedziemy gotowa lacznica. Do wyboru dwa kierunki.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wybieramy kierunek Wroclaw. Rzut na WA19 na wezle Godzieszow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rzut oka na przekroj swiezutkiego betonu na A4.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Widok A4 w strone Wroclawia. Brakuje jeszcze ciaglosci asfaltu do betonu na A4, takze nie ma mozliwosci wjazdu na A4 samochodem, chyba ze dobrze uterenowionym.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Widok A4 w strone Zgorzelca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bonus. Widok na DK4 z A4.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I to by bylo na tyle. Dziekuje za uwage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Borek said:
> 
> 
> 
> Uuuu, widze lekki zastoj w watku, znalazlem go dopiero na trzeciej podstronie...
> 
> Kilka nowych informacji nt. A4. Na wezle Zgorzelec przerzucono ruch na druga nitke, tak wiec jezdzimy juz po betonie. To juz drugi odcinek betonu oddany na A4 - brawo! Kilka fotek ponizej nt. organizacji ruchu. Koniec z tymczasowym rondem, zrobilo sie bardziej "po normalnemu"
> 
> Schemat ruchu (kolor czarny) na wezle. Wykorzystalem rysuneczek MAGa - podziekowal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jedziemy DK4 od strony Wroclawia. Zbizamy sie do wezla Zgorzelec. Po prawej stary pas wlaczajacy, ktory obecnie konczy sie w polu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jedziemy dalej, tablica informacyjna jak dojechac do Drezna.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zjazd na A4 do Drezna. Lacznice ladnie ofotografowalem w poprzedniej fotorelacji - czesc 3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jedziemy DK30 (tak tak, od poludnia jest DK30, a nie DK4 ktora zaczyna sie dopiero na wezle Zgorzelec) i zblizamy sie do wezla Zgorzelec. Tymczasowe znaki jak jechac.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stary pas wlaczajacy (rowniez urywa sie w polu).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I widzimy wlaczenie lacznicy w DK4/DK30.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lacznica w wiekszych szczegolach.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rzut okiem (matryca) na samochody na nowej A4 plus stara lacznica, ktora niedlugo zniknie z powierzchni ziemi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bonus. Autostrada A4 widoczna z DK4.
Click to expand...




[


tomek.jg said:


> To moja pierwsza fotorelacja na tym forum więc proszę o wyrozumiałość
> Zdjęcia zrobione z WA37 dnia 11.11.2008r.
> 
> Zdjęcie nr 1 – widok w kierunku Krzyżowej:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <
> Zdjęcie nr 2 – Faktycznie ktoś już korzysta z autostrady – jakieś 150km/h było na oko
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zdjęcie nr 3 – Tutaj widać go lepiej jak się oddala
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zdjęcie nr 4 – Widok w kierunku Zgorzelca – WD36
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zdjęcie nr 5 – Dziwi mnie trochę to obniżenie i ponownie podwyższenie terenu na tym odcinku. Nie można było zrobić tutaj autostrady tak, aby była płaska w tym miejscu. Duża ogniskowa trochę zmienia widok ale mimo wszystko za dołkiem jest dość ostry zakręt w prawo i całkowicie płaski kawałek byłby chyba lepszy – szczególnie, że nie było tutaj problemu aby to wykonać. Dziwnie to trochę wygląda.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zdjęcie nr 6 – WD36 – droga na Tomisław – ktoś tutaj pisał, że podobno jest za niski. Ciekawa teoria. Moim zdaniem wygląda w porządku – chociaż z takiej odległości – ok. 500-600m. ciężko cokolwiek na oko wyrokować.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mam nadzieję, że fotki się spodobają.:cheers:


----------



## Verso

They cut too many trees IMO. I like driving through forests, but that feeling is gone with such wide corridors without trees.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

dziękuję


----------



## PLH

^^ proszę


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> TAK dla dozwolonych 160 na autostradach
> TAK dla dozwolonych 130 na drogach ekspresowych


Typical Polish? Racing across every road?


----------



## PLH

^^ Typical - yes, but why racing? Racing would be no speed limit at all.

BTW While 130 km/h on A roads may be acceptable, 110 on S roads is ridiculous


Chris is exploring google translate?


----------



## Verso

PLH said:


> 110 on S roads is ridiculous


Even worse here - 100 km/h on motorroads. While it's not that bad on 2-lane or urban motorroads, it's really ridiculous on H4.


----------



## Timon91

^^We have some motorways as well with Vmax 100 km/h. Some even have 80 (in urban areas). Normally you can't drive any faster because of the Dutch jams hno:
That's also the reason why they cut away so many trees: if you fly over the crashbarrier you first hit the ground instead of a tree


----------



## msz2

Verso said:


> They cut too many trees IMO. I like driving through forests, but that feeling is gone with such wide corridors without trees.


We have planty of them in Poland.


----------



## ufonut

Verso said:


> They cut too many trees IMO. I like driving through forests, but that feeling is gone with such wide corridors without trees.


Crews are planting trees/flora along new embankments of A4


----------



## Timon91

Slovenia is forest for 65%, Poland for 28,7%. What about the Netherlands? Very little I guess.


----------



## PLH

^^ 10,8 %

http://rainforests.mongabay.com/deforestation/2000/Netherlands.htm


----------



## Timon91

Interesting link, PLH. I expected it to be less. Just because of the big urban areas and the farmland. There's just not so much space for forests anymore.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Veluwe and North Brabants have lots of forested areas.


----------



## Verso

Timon91 said:


> Slovenia is forest for 65%, Poland for 28,7%. What about the Netherlands? Very little I guess.


I've given a link before.


----------



## Timon91

Hadn't seen it, but PLH has given a link now


----------



## Sponsor

You're talking about forrests while there is 1800 km of S- and A-roads being built or constructed in Poland ?!


----------



## geogregor

Mateusz said:


> These terms get confused all the time... let's clarify it off now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Autostrada*-motorway, autobahn, autoroute, autopista, autosnelweg, autocesta, avtocesta, dalnica, autopalya, avtomagistrala, motorvag
> 
> Speed limit-130 km/h


In American English it's also called freeway or confusingly expressway too.
They don't heave two different types of roads like we have motorway and lower class expressway. For hem it is all one category of limited access highway but some of them are build to interstate highways standards.
End of OT


----------



## bebe.2006

*Roads finished in 2008:*

20.03.2008 - *S7* Zakopianka: Myślenice-Lubień, 12,2 km, 2x2
19.04.2008 - *S19* Miedzyrzec Podlaski, 6,3 km, 1x2
28.04.2008 - *S17* obwodnica Hrebennego, 2,0 km, 1x2
21.06.2008 - *S3* obwodnica Międzyzdrojów, 3,0 km, 1x2
11.07.2008 - *S12* obwodnica Puław, 4,0 km, 2x2 i 8,7 km, 1x2 - razem 12,7 km
16.07.2008 - *S7* Białobrzegi - Jedlińsk, 15,4 km, 2x2
05.09.2008 - *S3* obwodnica Nowej Soli, 15,0 km, 1x2
19.09.2008 - *S7* obwodnica Grójca, 8,3 km, 2x2
24.09.2008 - *S22* Elbląg - Grzechotki, 48,7 km, 1x2
24.09.2008 - *S22* Grzechotki - granica, 1,9 km, 2x2
17.10.2008 - *A1* Tczew - Grudziądz, 63,9 km, 2x2
14.11.2008 - *S8* obwodnica Wyszkowa, 12,8 km, 2x2

*2008: 202,2 km (autostrady: 63,9 km, S 2x2/2x3: 54,6 km, S 1x2: 83,7 km)*


----------



## Rijeka

Timon91 said:


> ^^We have some motorways as well with Vmax 100 km/h. Some even have 80 (in urban areas). Normally you can't drive any faster because of the Dutch jams hno:
> That's also the reason why they cut away so many trees: if you fly over the crashbarrier you first hit the ground instead of a tree


Off topic: I think the Dutch speed limits are absurd. Sometimes 100 km/h or even 80 km/h on motorways, and on some tiny local roads (between Woerden and Alphen a/d Rijn for example) 60 or 70 km/h :nuts:


----------



## ionutzyankoo

bebe.2006 said:


> *Roads finished in 2008:*
> 
> 20.03.2008 - *S7* Zakopianka: Myślenice-Lubień, 12,2 km, 2x2
> 19.04.2008 - *S19* Miedzyrzec Podlaski, 6,3 km, 1x2
> 28.04.2008 - *S17* obwodnica Hrebennego, 2,0 km, 1x2
> 21.06.2008 - *S3* obwodnica Międzyzdrojów, 3,0 km, 1x2
> 11.07.2008 - *S12* obwodnica Puław, 4,0 km, 2x2 i 8,7 km, 1x2 - razem 12,7 km
> 16.07.2008 - *S7* Białobrzegi - Jedlińsk, 15,4 km, 2x2
> 05.09.2008 - *S3* obwodnica Nowej Soli, 15,0 km, 1x2
> 19.09.2008 - *S7* obwodnica Grójca, 8,3 km, 2x2
> 24.09.2008 - *S22* Elbląg - Grzechotki, 48,7 km, 1x2
> 24.09.2008 - *S22* Grzechotki - granica, 1,9 km, 2x2
> 17.10.2008 - *A1* Tczew - Grudziądz, 63,9 km, 2x2
> 14.11.2008 - *S8* obwodnica Wyszkowa, 12,8 km, 2x2
> 
> *2008: 202,2 km (autostrady: 63,9 km, S 2x2/2x3: 54,6 km, S 1x2: 83,7 km)*


Impresive results for only one year. Our gov. should learn a bit from you guys in implementation of projects.
Those 1x2 sections are going to be transformed in the near future in 2x2? Do these 1x2 sections include same level interchanges?
What are the maximum figures concerning car traffic for Poland in order to make an A or S road feasable to be build?


----------



## Sponsor

ionutzyankoo said:


> Those 1x2 sections are going to be transformed in the near future in 2x2? Do these 1x2 sections include same level interchanges?


Yep but in most cases we are talking about further future 
And yep again - S-roads 1x2 include level interchanges (crossing intersections only in special cases but very rare).


----------



## Verso

Sponsor said:


> You're talking about forrests while there is 1800 km of S- and A-roads being built or constructed in Poland ?!


Yeah, you know, deep inside we're all tree nutters here.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Better yet: treehuggers


----------



## Verso

Hippies. :lol:


----------



## Timon91

Rijeka said:


> Off topic: I think the Dutch speed limits are absurd. Sometimes 100 km/h or even 80 km/h on motorways, and on some tiny local roads (between Woerden and Alphen a/d Rijn for example) 60 or 70 km/h :nuts:


Yeah, that's right. This whole 2×5 section on the A2 will have Vmax 100 km/h. Noone is going to drive 100 km/h on an early Sunday morning.

@bebe.2006: They finished quite a few streches of the S7 this year. Good to hear. Last year was a real mess hno:


----------



## bebe.2006

by toonczyk:










"Ogolem" means together.


----------



## PLH

^^ It says roads in operation, and it's 2008 not 2009


----------



## Timon91

It's an interesting map though. Big explosion of new 2×2 roads between 05/2006 and 01/2007. Was the A2 opened in this period?


----------



## PLH

^^ Yeah

07/2006, 103 km


------------

*U/C*










Somewhere around summer 2009 there will be additional *374 km* of A roads U/C (lacking section of A2 between Warsaw and Berlin and A1 from Łódź to Katowice) :banana: Can't wait!

This, together with sections now being U/C will sum up for a tremendous number of *533 km *of motorways U/C


----------



## Timon91

Is it sure that they'll start with the A2 Swiecko - Nowy Tomysl next summer?


----------



## PLH

^^The're said to be be startning on April 1st, so I don't know


----------



## Timon91

It's really time. It should have been finished a year ago hno:


----------



## PLH

^^ Year*s* ago, more likely

BTW You didn't notice the joke, did you?


----------



## Timon91

I did. They probably won't start on April Fools Day :lol:


----------



## msz2

PLH said:


> ^^The're said to be be startning on April 1st, so I don't know


Which company does make the design of this section?


----------



## Timon91

Have they solved the problems about the toll income?


----------



## PLH

Toll booths after border and on every exit


----------



## Timon91

Yeah, but AFAIK there were some problems between the companies who would get how much money from the toll income. Isn't that why it takes so long for them to start building?


----------



## PLH

Well, the agreement was already signed on 30.08.2008, so now thy're just waiting for spring to come.

But before it was signed, yes, there were some problebs with financing this road, but now they're gone, thankfully.


----------



## PLH

*A1/A4 Interchange*


----------



## Mateusz

*S3, Szczecin-Gorzów Wielkopolski*



JacYk said:


> *Fotki z dn.16.11.2008r.*
> 
> *Cz.2 od WD-20 do WD-24*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kontynuując, minęliśmy WD-20 (za plecami). Widok w kierunku Gorzowa, zbliżamy się do węzła "Pyrzyce".
> 
> 
> Zbliżenie na WD-21, od niego zaczyna się węzeł "Pyrzyce".
> 
> 
> WD-21 z bliska, widok w kierunku Gorzowa. Wiadukt ten stoi na drodze Czarnowo (po lewej)-Parnica (po prawej).
> 
> 
> Zbliżenie na WD-22, który zapewni ruch nad S3 dla zjeżdżających z niej od strony Szczecina w kierunku Pyrzyc lub Bań. Drugi kierunek po WD-22, to wjazd na S3 od strony DW122 w kierunku Gorzowa.
> 
> 
> Po minięciu WD-21, po prawej stronie ukazuje się łącznica WD-22 dla kierunków opisanych przy wcześniejszym zdjęciu.
> 
> 
> Obrót do tyłu w kierunku Szczecina i widok na WD-21.
> 
> 
> Jesteśmy przy WD-22. Szczecin na prawo.
> 
> 
> WD-22 z drugiego boku. Szczecin dalej na prawo.
> 
> 
> Widok z wysokości WD-22 w kierunku Szczecina.
> 
> 
> Widok na jeden z łuków wiaduktu. Szczecin na prawo.
> 
> 
> Wracam na nasyp przy WD-22. Widok w kierunku Pyrzyc.
> 
> 
> Obrót delikatnie w prawo, widok na OU "Pyrzyce" w budowie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...i jeszcze bardziej w prawo. Na kierunek Gorzów oraz wprost WD-23, budowany w ciągu DW122 Pyrzyce (po lewej)-Parnica (po prawej).
> 
> 
> Ujęcie w stronę Gorzowa z WD-22.
> 
> 
> ...i jeszcze jedno zbliżenie na powstający OU "Pyrzyce".
> 
> 
> Z tego samego miejsca centralnie widok na wprost Gorzowa.
> 
> 
> ...i dwa zbliżenia na WD-23, który stoi na granicy odc. I i II.
> 
> 
> 
> Jesteśmy przy drugim przyczółku WD-22. Widok na nasyp łącznicy, która umożliwi ruch między S3 (ze Szczecina) a DW122 i z DW122 do S3 w stronę Gorzowa. Szczecin na prawo.
> 
> 
> Obrót na prawo w stronę Szczecina.
> 
> 
> ...i jeszcze raz w prawo.
> 
> 
> Kolejny obrót w prawo na WD-22.
> 
> 
> Ponownie ujęcie jednego z łuków, ale z drugiej strony.
> 
> 
> Widok na WD-22 z poziomu S3 w kierunku Gorzowa.
> 
> 
> Łącznica dla kierunku z DW122 (za plecami) w kierunku Szczecina (na wprost).
> 
> 
> Widok na budową łącznicy prowadzącej do DW122 (na wprost). WD-22 teraz znajduje się po prawej.
> 
> 
> Obrót w stronę WD-22.
> 
> 
> ...i zbliżenie. Szczecin na prawo.
> 
> 
> W tył zwrot i ruszam po nasypie łącznicy w kierunku DW122.
> 
> 
> 
> Ponownie obrót do tyłu w stronę S3.
> 
> 
> Obracam się znowu w stronę DW122 i idę do przodu. Mamy już tą drogę w zasięgu wzroku (tam gdzie stoją sierżanty).
> 
> 
> ...i jesteśmy już na DW122 (Pyrzyce za plecami) na wprost nasyp prowadzący na WD-23. Po lewej tymczasowy objazd, wjazd na S3 na prawo.
> 
> 
> Bliżej nasypu WD-23.
> 
> 
> WD-23 w lewo kierunek Gorzów.
> 
> 
> Widok na wprost WD-23 w kierunku Szczecina, na pierwszym planie DW122.
> 
> 
> 
> Stoję przy WD-23, widok w kierunku Gorzowa. Za WD122 zaczyna się odc.II Budimexu.
> 
> 
> Odcinek II już po kilkudziesięciu metrach wita nas czarnym asfaltem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ruszam więc do przodu w kierunku Gorzowa i WD-24. Nawierzchnia równa jak stół, jechałem 130km/h i nic nie trzęsło. REWELACJA. :banana:
> 
> 
> 
> Zbliżenie, a w dali widoczny już WD-24. Słabo wyszło, ale ulewa i zapadający zmrok nie pozwoliły na lepszą jakość.
> 
> 
> Dojechałem w pobliże WD-24. Widok w kierunku Gorzowa.
> 
> 
> 
> ...i na koniec, obrót w stronę Szczecina.
> Kolejną fotorelację (tylko nie wiem kiedy) rozpocznę od tego miejsca.


----------



## bebe.2006

S8 Wyszkow:

http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=5uAUF8hEIzU


----------



## Matz32Z

A4 Gliwice-Wroclaw 
highway photos


----------



## Chris80678

The 30th January 2009 has been given as the provisional opening of the 
A4 motorway from Zgorzelec to Krzyzowa :banana:- I love the sleek and simple look of Krzyzowa interchange :cheers:


----------



## PLH

Huh? Where do you know that from?


----------



## Timon91

Only two more months and a few days, if Chris80678 is right. :cheers:


----------



## Mateusz

More likely the Contract B...


----------



## Chris80678

I got the provisional opening date of 30th January 2009 for the A4 from Zgorzelec-Krzyzowa from the website link provided by the Wikipedia website.
(it was in Polish but I understood it correctly) But it's probably more likely that the section from Krzyzowa to Wykroty exit (contract B section) will be open on this date as this part is practically done and dusted ie only half of the motorway will be open to drivers hno:
The contract A section from Wykroty to Zgorzelec has been for a provisional opening in Feb 2009. There is no way we can wait until April for this 51km stretch of motorway to open as it is needed now. ^^


----------



## bebe.2006

Great pics.


----------



## bebe.2006

On next page new pics from Chojnice-baypass.


----------



## bebe.2006

National road 22. Chojnice baypass. To open on 28th November:



Biały;28246526 said:


>


----------



## Timon91

Nice pics! So this is part of the Berlinka?


----------



## radi6404

Yes, it looks pretty impressive, no matter the crashbarriers are B.


----------



## Timon91

Yeah, asphalt is black, crashbarriers are shiny, markings are thick. It's just that the crashbarriers are B and that the shoulders aren't very wide, otherwise it would have been perfect, right?


----------



## radi6404

yes, right.


----------



## bebe.2006

It isn`t a motor- or ekspressway. It is "only" a national road. So the shoulders are not so wide.
We have in Poland the shinest crashbarriers in the world because there are so many polish people here


----------



## Timon91

^^:rofl: The Polish like to polish with polish, right? 

So it's DK22? Strange, why not make this an S-road? Did they make it DK so that they don't have to make wide shoulders?


----------



## Verso

bebe.2006 said:


> It isn`t a motor- or ekspressway. It is "only" a national road.


But it _is_ reserved only for motor vehicles, right? Is it equipped with the blue sign with car? It's for sure good enough not to allow scooters on.


----------



## Timon91

AFAIK the DK18 also prohibits unmotorized vehicles and scooters. I've seen signs at exits saying that.


----------



## PLH

Timon91 said:


> Nice pics! So this is part of the Berlinka?


Not the historical one See this page: www.berlinka.pcp.pl (also in German)



Verso said:


> But it _is_ reserved only for motor vehicles, right? Is it equipped with the blue sign with car? It's for sure good enough not to allow scooters on.


Sadly it's not, but it is most likely for cars only.



Timon91 said:


> AFAIK the DK18 also prohibits unmotorized vehicles and scooters. I've seen signs at exits saying that.


It's a motorway, doesn't matter how it is marked(like Struma)


----------



## Timon91

It's probably a motorway, but it's a *DK* road, so there need to be special signs probiting certain vehicles.


----------



## PLH

^^ Yes

BTW: Every motorway is a DK road, but not every DK road be a motorway.


----------



## Verso

How about you guys change the word "motor*way*" into "motor*road*"? :crazy:

Timon, why couldn't a DK road have the motorroad sign (blue with car)? And PLH, Polish motorroads (especially good ones) are usually S roads.

Btw, how do you ban ALL non-motor vehicles other than with the blue sign with car? We don't have a sign, which would ban all non-motor vehicles (except the blue one, or the green motorway one).

PS: what will be the speed limit on the new part of the DK22?


----------



## PLH

> Timon, why couldn't a DK road have the motorroad sign (blue with car)?


Sure they can, but here the shoulder are too narrow.



> And PLH, Polish motorroads (especially good ones) are usually S roads.


Apart fron city sections(exits too densely located)



> Btw, how do you ban ALL non-motor vehicles other than with the blue sign with car? We don't have a sign, which would ban all non-motor vehicles (except the blue one, or the green motorway one).












But still it doesn't ban all non car vehicles.



> PS: what will be the speed limit on the new part of the DK22?


100 km/h


----------



## Verso

PLH said:


> But still it doesn't ban all non car vehicles.


Exactly, scooter is missing. They aren't appropriate on a 100-km/h road. hno:


----------



## Timon91

The speed limit for scooters is 45 km/h over here. The top speed for most scooters is 50 km/h. Most youth with a scooter have scooters that can go way faster


----------



## Verso

Scooters are popular on south Italian urban motorways. 


x-type said:


>


----------



## Mateusz

Verso said:


> But it _is_ reserved only for motor vehicles, right? Is it equipped with the blue sign with car? It's for sure good enough not to allow scooters on.


It's _GP_ road  _Droga główna ruchu przyspieszonego_ what means main road of accelerated traffic :nuts: In simplier words, a ordinary national road but with two carriageways ^^


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

Mateusz said:


> In simplier words, a ordinary national road but with two carriageways ^^


It's not that easy  There are new, GP-classified national roads with one carriageway, like DK50.


----------



## Timon91

^^To make it easier


----------



## Mateusz

Jakub Warszauer said:


> It's not that easy  There are new, GP-classified national roads with one carriageway, like DK50.


WTF :nuts: Since when ? It seems like we have some innovation in our laws ^^ 

How different they are from normal national roads ?


----------



## PLH

Mateusz said:


> WTF :nuts: Since when ? It seems like we have some innovation in our laws ^^


It has been for a long time now.



> How different they are from normal national roads


The only difference I know about is that GP roads must have pedestrian crossing located at road crossings, and G roads don't.


----------



## Sponsor

PLH said:


> The only difference I know about is that GP roads must have pedestrian crossing located at road crossings, and G roads don't.


There is more about minimal distance between intersections, lane's width, maximum length of straight section, shoulders and others.
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droga_klasy_G


----------



## Chris80678

Poland seems to be brilliant at building bypasses for small towns on national roads :cheers: but not so fast at building more urgently needed motorways! hno: Only 19 days until Strykow bypass opens :banana:


----------



## SeanT

Chris80678 said:


> Poland seems to be brilliant at building bypasses for small towns on national roads :cheers: but not so fast at building more urgently needed motorways! hno: Only 19 days until Strykow bypass opens :banana:


 Hopefully something is going to change in the near future. This crazy world crisis might delay it a little. :nuts:


----------



## Timon91

As long as they start with the A2 Swiecko-Nowy Tomysl next spring, it's the motorway that really needs to be finished quickly.


----------



## RipleyLV

That section is not important than building a bypass of Warsaw. :nuts:


----------



## Timon91

Why wouldn't it be important? The two-laned road which there is right now is a complete disaster. This section needs to come, and quick. Same counts for the A2 Lódz-Warszawa, but Swiecko-Nowy Tomysl is the number one priority right now IMO.


----------



## PLH

Timon91 said:


> but Swiecko-Nowy Tomysl is the number one priority right now IMO.


Mainly because it's the only main road after German border not being a motorway.

BTW This section is going to be in concrete :banan:


----------



## RipleyLV

Timon91 said:


> Why wouldn't it be important? The two-laned road which there is right now is a complete disaster. This section needs to come, and quick. Same counts for the A2 Lódz-Warszawa, but Swiecko-Nowy Tomysl is the number one priority right now IMO.


Have you driven there? I guess not! It isn't a disaster as you said, the main road number 2 from Swiecko - Nowy Tomysl is in great condition, it has been rehabilitated in the last years, it handles traffic just great. Mostly trucks are using it.


----------



## Verso

RipleyLV said:


> Have you driven there? I guess not! It isn't a disaster as you said, the main road number 2 from Swiecko - Nowy Tomysl is in great condition, it has been rehabilitated in the last years, it handles traffic just great. Mostly trucks are using it.


Oh, I wish Croats appreciated our roads like this.


----------



## PLH

RipleyLV said:


> Have you driven there? I guess not! It isn't a disaster as you said, the main road number 2 from Swiecko - Nowy Tomysl is in great condition, it has been rehabilitated in the last years, it handles traffic just great. Mostly trucks are using it.


OK, it is in a very good condition, but it doesn't change the fact tht you have to really do you best to travel it in 1h 10 min(100 km), while on a motorway it would take like 40 min.

And it does not handle the traffic - there is a massive jam for those entering A2, and with lots of traffic it takes 2h to travel there, which is way too much.


----------



## RipleyLV

PLH said:


> And it does not handle the traffic


Oh, yes it does!  I was driving there this summer with no problems, the only stupid thing was a jam in Swiebodzin with the construction of a roundabout.



PLH said:


> there is a massive jam for those entering A2


Nonsense.


----------



## Timon91

I haven't driven there, but I've seen a few different reports of people who have driven there, and it says enough. And if you were driving there this summer and had no problems, you were just lucky.

I can also say something about the DK4 (Zgorzelec-Krzywowa): it's really a stupid road because there are always jams and it always takes hours before you get to Zgorzelec. Is this *always* true? Of course not, it was just a coinsidence that I had problems with that road. There are quiet days as well.


----------



## RipleyLV

Timon91 said:


> I haven't driven there, but I've seen a few different reports of people who have driven there, and it says enough.


Like mine! 



Timon91 said:


> And if you were driving there this summer and had no problems, you were just lucky.


Yeah, I got lucky that no hick got on the way!


----------



## PLH

RipleyLV said:


> Oh, yes it does!


Yes, but only with the very unique Polish style, I doubt Timon' s parents drive like that:










RipleyLV said:


> Nonsense.







:|


----------



## RipleyLV

PLH said:


> :|






























:shifty:


----------



## PLH

^^ Ok, but we're not the Netherlands to have permanent traffic jams :nuts:


----------



## RipleyLV

^See, I convinced you!


----------



## radi6404

RipleyLV, the roads look quite impessive, really modern and really save looking.


----------



## Timon91

PLH said:


> Yes, but only with the very unique Polish style, I doubt Timon' s parents drive like that


After a few 100 kilometers of Polish roads even my dad adopted that driving style


----------



## msz2

Bay pass of the Stary Sacz town:


----------



## Chris80678

I must say that Poland's bypasses of small towns look great :cheers: 
But bypasses are needed for these towns on major or minor trunk roads which suffer from heavy traffic: Koszalin (E28), Sławno (E28), 
Jelenia Góra (E65), Wieluń (E67), Zambrów (E67), Pułtusk & Nowy Sącz.
I realise that the building of bypasses for small towns is not as important as building motorways but these towns do need rescuing from increased traffic brought about by the building of new motorways. ^^ 
Also the Stryków bypass probably has to take priority over other bypasses due it being a major part of the future A1/A2 interchange on the outskirts of the town


----------



## Mateusz

Well, Jelenia Góra will be getting new bypass soon... construction of first stage will start in next year


----------



## SeanT

Well, what is the current situation with motorways in km in POLLAND?


----------



## Mateusz

830 km in use

210 km under construction


----------



## PLH

830 km of motorways
510 km os expressways

210 km of motorways U/C
240 km of expressways U/C


----------



## SeanT

PLH said:


> 830 km of motorways
> 510 km os expressways
> 
> 210 km of motorways U/C
> 240 km of expressways U/C


 It seems that Poland has a lot of expressways compared to motorways


----------



## PLH

*S11 Poznań*




























Different asphalt with more grip on turns - very good idea.


----------



## PLH

*Toys for big boys - S3 Szczecin - Gorzów Wlkp.*


----------



## Timon91

Nice pics, PLH :cheers:

What sections will soon go U/C? The only one I can think of is the A2 Swiécko-Nowy Tomysl next spring (fingers crossed)


----------



## Mateusz

Yes, same as A1 Grudziądz-Toruń will start in Spring. I hope that motorway towards Warsaw will be finished before Euro 2012... and A4 should be finished up to Tarnów as a absolute minimum, hopefully up to Rzeszów


----------



## PLH

A2 Łódź - Warsaw ca. 90 km
A1 Łódź - Gliwice ca. 180 km
S7 southern Gdańsk bypass ca. 20 km


----------



## Mateusz

I thought it is southern one... so is there northern too ? It seems like also Gdańsk will have a ring then


----------



## Timon91

I see. So they will start building the A2 Łódź - Warszawa next spring or sth? And what motorways/expys are supposed to be finished for the Euro 2012 tournament? Just a few more questions about that tournament: will the new stadiums/hotels/infrastructure be finished on time? And for Ukraine? What will happen if Ukraine doesn't make it? Will Poland be the only country to organize the tournament?


----------



## PLH

Of course it's southern.

Good I've not written eastern


----------



## Mateusz

Well, Gdańsk will have some sort of North-Eastern bypass with tunnel near Sopot or something like that ?

There are some specialtions about doing it with Germany but I see no space for such option... Poland and Ukraine have too much too lose


----------



## PLH

Timon91 said:


> I see. So they will start building the A2 Łódź - Warszawa next spring or sth? And what motorways/expys are supposed to be finished for the Euro 2012 tournament? Just a few more questions about that tournament: will the new stadiums/hotels/infrastructure be finished on time? And for Ukraine? What will happen if Ukraine doesn't make it? Will Poland be the only country to organize the tournament?



You ask very difficult questions 

1. Which roads? As for me it would be like that:

A1 from Gdańsk to Toruń and From Łódź to CR border
A2 from D to Warsaw
S3 from Szczecin to A2
A4 from D to Tarnów(?)
A8 Wrocław bypass

plus various sections of S roads

2. Will everything be on time? It depends on what you mean by everything, but stadiums, hotels and stuff like that is likely to be finished.

3. About Ukraine - roads: no way
stadiums: yes, as they are funded by private Ukrinian millionaires

4. You ask who if not Ukraine? It's not taken into account seriously, but there are rumours about Germany.


----------



## Timon91

I always ask difficult questions (when I'm not spamming) 

There's definately a need of a good motorway connection between Poland and Ukraine, but I'm not seeing that that will happen. Poland seems to be fine for the tournament. The can organize it together with Germany, but the rivalry is probably too big


----------



## PLH

Timon91 said:


> The can organize it together with Germany, but the rivalry is probably too big


Well, we're not really in favour of that, as it would mean Euro 2012 Germany and Poland, and now it is Euro 2012 Poland and Ukraine, if you see my point :tongue4:


----------



## Timon91

Yeah, now Poland is in full spotlights, and together with Germany most attention will, most likely, go to Germany.


----------



## Mateusz

Yeah and Germans would laugh at us about that they had to support and rescue poor brothers from East...

I hope Poland & Ukraine will successfuly organise together this event


----------



## Timon91

You can actually laugh at Germany by approaching Lithuania to organize the tournament with them


----------



## krzysiu_

Timon91 said:


> There's definately a need of a good motorway connection between Poland and Ukraine, but I'm not seeing that that will happen. Poland seems to be fine for the tournament. The can organize it together with Germany, but the rivalry is probably too big


It's really hard/impossible to make up last 50 years in 4-5 years in such a big country like Poland. In small countrys like Dk. or Be. it's not that hard to build full road network, but we need like 10x kms more...


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## Mateusz

Is it true ? 

Well Germans seem to be weird people sometimes...

Ekhmmm autostrady ! 

A4 Zgorzelec-Krzyżowa is destinated for opening at.........

........ July hno:



Well exactly, considering the fact we belong to this group of big European countries...


----------



## Timon91

Why???? hno:


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## Mateusz

I have no idea what the hell they will be doing there for over next half year, even though they speed up massively now with laying down concrete hno: About 95 % of concrete works are finished


----------



## PLH

Timon91 said:


> Why???? hno:


Let me put it like this: during the whole construction, this section was said to be:

1. dismantled
2. build again in another location 
3. the EU funds were to be taken away
4. one viaduct wasn't allegedly high enough and was to be demolished too

So I would not take this seriously... 

see that:

Krzyżowa









WD45 - dawno tutaj nie byłem i oto co zastałem 



























no i z drugiej strony. tu zaparkowałem ...









.. i przespacerowałem się
MA 46


















Dalej PZ47









jak widać, i w sobotę panowie na budowie









a tu MOP 









zbliżenie









widok w stronę węzła Bolesławiec



























Chciałem też zobaczyć jak wygląda WA41 









jednak ten stróż mnie przegonił :/









Na więcej czasu nie starczyło :/[/QUOTE]


----------



## Timon91

It looks like it can be opened in a month from now :dunno:


----------



## Mateusz

I hope it will be opened earlier, this road looks really finished excepting last details ^^

Now Part B (which is more completed than Part A IMO) is destinated for....

August hno:


----------



## Chris80678

I can't believe the opening of A4 Zgorzelec - Krzyzowa has been put forward to July or August 2009 - that is far too long. :bash: 
If 95% of it is done and most of the overhead gantrys and signage is done than surely it can be opened by the promised deadline of the last day of this month or barring then January 2009?


----------



## Timon91

Who profits from this delay anyway? The company that's building it perhaps?


----------



## PLH

Why they? There is a penalty for every day of delay.

The only 'profiting' company might be the one device for laying concrete is hired from (ca. € 5000/day)


----------



## PLH

*A2 D - Nowy Tomyśl*

*
pics by Rusonaldo*











The whole truth about german magnificent Autobahns:no:









_
In this place from 1940 to 1942 a Nazi labor camp was located for 3500 Polish citizens and Polish Jews who were building the highway._


----------



## Timon91

Nice pics, PLH

First pic: seems like finished and ready to be opened tomorrow 

Second pic: hno:


----------



## Mateusz

So they are already prepare the area for construction ?

It might give the answer why III Reich constructed so many motorways... free labour force


----------



## PLH

Mateusz said:


> So they are already prepare the area for construction ?


It's already prepared for some years now.


----------



## Mateusz

Still I don't understand why Warsawian Express Bypass will Home Army Route and Toruńska Route... 

Look at London, Moscow, Berlin, Rome, Budapest, Prague or Ljubljana...

They have proper ring roads (or are planning to have)

Are there any older plans showing other project than current one ? Maybe from PRL time ?


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

Mateusz said:


> Still I don't understand why Warsawian Express Bypass will Home Army Route and Toruńska Route...
> 
> Look at London, Moscow, Berlin, Rome, Budapest, Prague or Ljubljana...
> 
> They have proper ring roads (or are planning to have)
> 
> Are there any older plans showing other project than current one ? Maybe from PRL time ?


Firstly, you simply can't build an A-10 clone (Berlin) over Warsaw. We have one very large National Park and two or three very large preservation areas in & just at Warsaw's boundaries. Trying to by-pass everything (city + preserved areas) is impossible or makes no sense, as you would have to buit highway 60-70 km from city...

Secondly, according to figures, 90% of traffic in Warsaw Metro area is directly connected to Warsaw (going in, out or within). This mass of steel has to be managed and directed into by-passes in order to enforce reduction of private transport usage (meaning: cars) in the city center.

We are now executing plans drafted in former system. Thank God (feeling the irony?) they've created reserve corridors for these routes.


----------



## Mateusz

Strabag wants 18m Euros extra, that's the reason for delay of A4 hno:


----------



## msz2

Timon91 said:


> Nice pics, PLH :cheers:
> 
> What sections will soon go U/C? The only one I can think of is the A2 Swiécko-Nowy Tomysl next spring (fingers crossed)


S-7 (15km: 2/2 expresway) from Kielce to Skarzysko should start at the begining of the next year.

red - under construction in the next year
dark blue - existing 2/2 S-7
magneta - existing 2/2 GP road Number 7 from Warsaw to Grojec.


----------



## LMB

*Not a racer*



ChrisZwolle said:


> Typical Polish? Racing across every road?


I know it was almost 3 weeks ago, but I would like to throw my 2 eurocents  towards that issue.

Chris, you need to remember that A-roads in Poland are really looooong distance connections, especially when compared with their equivalents in The Netherlands. Exits in Poland can be as rare as every 50km, and the limitation of 130 is IMHO silly, for many reasons not limited to the fact that there is nobody to impose the speed limit. 

I am not sure what the safe cruising speed may be, but I am pretty sure one can drive faster than 130 in Poland. I am not crazy, not a teenager, and I don't have a "muscle car". I live in Germany, and here I normally drive between 140 and 160km/h, because driving slower is actually dangerous for me: I start to de-concentrate, look around etc. I'd like to see the legal situation in Poland to mirror reality.


----------



## msz2

S-7, Kielce North Interchange:













A to już Węzeł Kielce Północ:













My shoes after the sesion:


----------



## msz2

Next photos from Kielce North Interchange:

It's new DK73 (GP class):


----------



## msz2

Construction of the new lane of S-7:



Stara jezdnia dawniej DK-7, po modernizacji S-7, trwa podwyższanie nasypu:














New viaduct and hole which left after demolition of the old one:


----------



## Majestic

That's awesome news! :banana:
Looks like the only missing sections along A1 in 2012 will be Toruń - Stryków and the urban section Pyrzowice - Sośnica? Any news on that one? Any chance of completing it around 2012?


----------



## Czas na Żywiec

PLH said:


> Agreement on building A1 Łódź - Pyrzowice (180 km) was signed today :banana:


Definitely great news! :cheers:


----------



## PLH

Timon91 said:


> Good news. When will construction start?


Depending on when the consortium will get money.


----------



## Mateusz

Money should come soon, it is a really important route


----------



## PLH

It makes no difference for banks though. Due to this, A2 Nowy Tomyśl - D won't start in April


----------



## Mateusz

What was the barried to at least make part of Gierkówka in motorway standards at the time when it was constructed, lack of money ?


----------



## Majestic

Mateusz said:


> What was the barried to at least make part of Gierkówka in motorway standards at the time when it was constructed, lack of money ?


Obviously! The rest of the debt money had to be spend for government's new, pointless factories and plants to show how developed Poland was (and to show socialism is the way ) :bash:


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## PLH

Well, it was more lack of time, Gierek insisted the road was finished untill given time.


----------



## Mateusz

I understand, characteristics of communist investments... ridicilous speeding and catching up at cost of quality ?

'Budowę ukończono 115 dni przed terminem, na święto 22 lipca...''

Such sort of thing ?

Gierkówka had a chance to be a Polish 'Motorway of Brotherhood and Unity' or 'Dalnice Praha-Brno-Bratislava'

But it was only a national road...

What numbers it had at the time ?


----------



## PLH

Mateusz said:


> 'Budowę ukończono 115 dni przed terminem, na święto 22 lipca...''


Yeah - July 22nd - National holiday of renaissance(sic!) of Poland, every bigger road was opened on that day


----------



## Mateusz

I think, with bit better managament of borrowed money from West, Poland could build much more motorways


----------



## Majestic

The problem is that only after many, many years we realised how important those investments would have been back then. While building a motorway was a step ahead into further development of the country, it was factories and new industry that created new jobs (most of them were not needed or economically justified anyway).


----------



## Mateusz

'Cosmic economy' 

At least you can say some of Warsaw Ring Road was built  Trasa AK and Trasa Toruńska


----------



## bebe.2006

by drugastrona:


----------



## Timon91

Green = in operation
Red = U/C
Yellow = In development stage?
Blue = ??
Z&Z = ??


----------



## PLH

yellow - tender
blue - eee... a few guys agreeded that road in this place won't harm the enviroment
Z&Z - tender for both design and construction


----------



## Mateusz

What the heck pink means here ? A stage between agreement and actual construction ?


----------



## McKowski

Mateusz said:


> What the heck pink means here ? A stage between agreement and actual construction ?


Yes!


----------



## bebe.2006

Mateusz said:


> What the heck pink means here ? A stage between agreement and actual construction ?


Yes, but only in public-private partnership <PPP>. They have to clear up the financing issues by the banks and to complete building projects, before construction can begin.


----------



## Chris80678

There is a mistake on the map posted by bebe2006 - the Stryków bypass 
section of the A2 motorway is not under construction but is in use - 
it opened on Monday 15th December 2008 so it should be in green instead of red :banana:


----------



## Mateusz

Ekhmmm, isn't it opened tommorow ???


----------



## Timon91

How long is this Stryków bypass that we're talking about?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

2 kilometers?


----------



## Sponsor

Chris80678 said:


> There is a mistake on the map posted by bebe2006 - the Stryków bypass
> section of the A2 motorway is not under construction but is in use -
> it opened on Monday 15th December 2008 so it should be in green instead of red :banana:


No it's still closed.



Timon91 said:


> How long is this Stryków bypass that we're talking about?


4,7 km


----------



## Mateusz

Including this short strecht of future A1 ? How it will be marked, temporary A2 ?


----------



## bebe.2006

^^


Matz32Z said:


>


----------



## Mateusz

It seems like it can be an expressway for some time


----------



## Sponsor

Mateusz said:


> Including this short strecht of future A1 ? How it will be marked, temporary A2 ?


1.Yes
2.Continued part of A2 will be A2 of course. Future A1 stretch is going to be DK14 I guess. Not A1, that's for sure.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^


> POLAND is getting higher!


You mean the elevation in Poland is increasing?


----------



## Sponsor

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^
> 
> You mean the elevation in Poland is increasing?


Maybe it doesn't sounds exaxtly what I mean but this is forum about skyscrapers so most people should get it


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## Timon91

That explains it


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Sponsor said:


> Maybe it doesn't sounds exaxtly what I mean but this is forum about skyscrapers so most people should get it


Ah okay, I thought you meant something like "Poland is getting better" (as in: new developments) or something


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## Matz32Z

RaV... said:


> byle do poniedziałku
> zapraszam na kilka fotek ze Strykowa
> na początek nieco starsze fotki sprzed tygodnia (11.12)
> widok z drogi Brzeziny-Stryków na Łowicz
> 
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> w oddali DK14
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> widok z DK14 na Poznań
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> i na trąbce. prosto na Poznań w prawo na wawe
> 
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> widok na wawe
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> Poznań na wprost
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> 
> od poniedziałku korek przenosi się na drugi koniec Strykowa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> druga część fotek z czwartku (18.12)
> montaż tablic
> 
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> wawa na wprost
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> widok na wawe
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> droga na Brzeziny i WD243
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> po łuku w prawo na Poznań
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> i tyle


GDDKiA reported on Thursday that the last section dedicated in 2008 would be "autostradowa" bypass Strykow population of 1.7 km. "We plan to its opening on Monday after Christmas" - said Rudnicki 




{...} 

Director GDDKiA Lech Witecki informed that advanced negotiations are ongoing for the construction of 270 km of motorways within the framework of the Public - Private (A1 Pomona - Pyrzowice approximately 180 km, A2 Pomona - Konotopa about 90 km). "We are at the final stage of negotiations started in September" - he said. He did not want an answer to the question whether it will be impossible to complete the signing in 2008 of red uminstead 
__________________


{..
D


----------



## Mateusz

Cool news, I hope they will start constructing motorway towards Warsaw soon


----------



## Timon91

It's a shame it's not yet there, so they should start soon.


----------



## Mateusz

The should build it quarter of century ago


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## PLH

*S3 Szczecin - Gorzów Wlkp.*


----------



## Sponsor

^^taken by *@Imir*


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## Majestic

4,7 km of motorway officially opened today :crazy:


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## Chris80678

Majestic said:


> 4,7 km of motorway officially opened today :crazy:


Which stretch of motorway are you refering to? :lol:


----------



## Maxx☢Power

NeoPolak said:


> Then why do Germans sign Polish cities in German? The German name is useless in Poland. This whole debate is pointless IMO, the road signs in a country should be in that country's main language, since *almost all* drivers in that country speak that language, and the road signs are for them 1st, and for international drivers 2nd. Furthermore, I think some forumers here are making a mountain out of a molehill (ie blowing this out of proportion). I seriously doubt anyone has ever gotten lost due to the signs being in a foreign language. If you can't read a map, you have more problems than just reading the language the sign is in.


The language isn't that much of a problem, but who do you think cares about those tiny villages, Polish or not? Nobody does.


----------



## Mateusz

Their importance on signs is even more decreased since we are in Schengen


----------



## krzysiu_

Everytime I see Bx-Dx have won some tender, it makes me sick!


----------



## Mateusz

Budimex Dromex ? 

Budimex had problems with completion of II Terminal in Warsaw ?


----------



## PLH

^^Iy actually wasn't their fault, but not many people know that.


----------



## Matz32Z

A4/A18 :bash:


michasa120 said:


> dzisiejsze fotki z węzła
> 
> Tablica, która przedstawia układ węzła (od strony Wrocławia, chyba jeszcze nie bylo zdjęc z tym znakiem):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kolejna tablica:
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Na węźle Krzyżowa zakończyły się wszystkie prace budowlane jak i porządkowe. Ten odcinek już w 100% nadaje się do użytkowania, niestety na drugim kontrakcie są opóźnienia i chyba będziemy musieli poczekać jeszcze jakieś pół roku


----------



## PLH

^^ And don't even say a word about this fvcking destination cities :bleep:


----------



## Mateusz

It's just ridiculous...

We should change our signage...


----------



## krzysiu_

PLH said:


> ^^Iy actually wasn't their fault, but not many people know that.


It doesn't really matter, it's just almost everytime I heard bx-dx it was about some problems with some constructions...


----------



## Miguel_PL

PLH said:


> ^^ And don't even say a word about this fvcking destination cities :bleep:


Yeah, it's pathetic. But we're helpless. The Polish law define these rules and we can do NOTHING.


----------



## msz2

PLH said:


> ^^Iy actually wasn't their fault, but not many people know that.


It was only their fault!


----------



## Rijeka

Isn't it strange to put a sign PL in Poland?


----------



## Miguel_PL

Rijeka said:


> Isn't it strange to put a sign PL in Poland?


No, it's not (despite the fact that on Schengen border there shoudn't be the signs indicating a border crossing).

For example, when you are driving to Ukrainian border there are signs like 
" Korczowa PL / UA " and it means that you are reaching Polish / Ukrainian border. That's why there is "PL" in a circle.


----------



## Mateusz

I think he mean a single (PL) which is strange to be honest, especially if you are still in Poland


----------



## Sponsor

Mateusz said:


> I think he mean a single (PL) which is strange to be honest, especially if you are still in Poland


Which photo shows the sign with single (PL) ?


----------



## Mateusz

It was this photo showing DK 9, I think there was Barwinek (PL)


----------



## Rijeka

Matz32Z said:


> A4/A!8


I was thinking of this photo. IMO, PL is unnecessary since you are driving in Poland, it's logical that D means PL/D border.


----------



## jacekfreeman

Rijeka said:


> I was thinking of this photo. IMO, PL is unnecessary since you are driving in Poland, it's logical that D means PL/D border.


No, it's not. If on a sing was written "Berlin D" would it mean that the Polish-German border is in Berlin's outskirts?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Who would care about the border now anyway? Many countries don't sign borders and country codes at all, and that doesn't give any problems.


----------



## PLH

On our subforum we organised a campaign, sending mails to GDDKiA(road management) suggesting changes on the basis of border signage. We also plan to involve press in it, as one of users has a friend there. I hope it will work, now I'm waiting for the answer.


----------



## Sponsor

Timoth12 said:


> Sponsor, just to make sure, A1 Strykow-Pyrzowice will be 2x3 as well.


At first I marked it but then deleted cause I wasn't sure. And I forgot S86 near Katowice which is also 3+3 for few kilometers. I'll correct map tomorrow.



Timoth12 said:


> Interesting is also, that almost every major city /Trojmiasto, Poznan, Cracow, Wroclaw, Katowice agglomeration, of course Warsaw/ have or will have 3+3 bypass.


We don't know much about northern part of Cracow's ring but it is rather going to be 2+2.

There can be more 3+3 around major cities which we don't know about yet.


----------



## Mateusz

I'm woundering wether A1 Piotrków-Częstochowa will be 2X3 at construction or not...

It should be


----------



## Majestic

No, it won't. And honestly, I don't see economical justification for it to be 2x3 right now.


----------



## Locke

They should all be 3 lanes each way at least. Futureproof the things, I hazard to guess 2 lanes will fill up pretty quick and then it will cost a fortune to fix.

Still, at least they are doing something I guess, Polish roads have been dismal till now.

I was speaking to a guy who works on the new freeways, he said they specifically designed them to fall apart after 5 years so that they can charge to revamp them.


----------



## Majestic

Locke said:


> They should all be 3 lanes each way at least. Futureproof the things, I hazard to guess 2 lanes will fill up pretty quick and then *it will cost a fortune to fix.*


In fact all major polish motorways are being built with a dedicated reserve for 3rd lane, so instead of spending fortune it's just a matter of laying down pavement and other minor works. In addition urban sections within bigger cities are already 2x3. Of course, I'd also like all m'ways to be 2x3 but moneywise it's not justified, since more kms can be built instead. And building overcapacity motorway, you still have to pay to maintain it.


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

Majestic said:


> In fact all major polish motorways are being built with a dedicated reserve for 3rd lane (...)


This applies to all *TEN-T* (pdf) roads, including expressways.


----------



## E2rdEm

Majestic said:


> Of course, I'd also like all m'ways to be 2x3 but moneywise it's not justified, since more kms can be built instead.


Are you sure? With the current policy of "reserve in the median" (i.e. median is 12 m wide) you have to dig the same cuttings and embankments as for 2x3, and also build bridges with a deck already with an additional lane. The only thing missing is pavement. How much cheaper than full 2x3 is it? 1%? Don't make me :lol:. Why not spend that 1% more and have full 2x3 right now?

Good thing is, that current reality is that reserve is left outside the driving lanes. Only the overpasses over the motorway have to be longer, which doesn't cost that much. Embankments and smaller motorway bridges are still built only for 2x2, so they are indeed cheaper. That's because the designs for currently constructed stretches were finished before the "12m median" policy was enacted...


----------



## Majestic

E2rdEm said:


> Are you sure? With the current policy of "reserve in the median" (i.e. median is 12 m wide) you have to dig the same cuttings and embankments as for 2x3, and also build bridges with a deck already with an additional lane. The only thing missing is pavement. How much cheaper than full 2x3 is it? 1%? Don't make me :lol:. Why not spend that 1% more and have full 2x3 right now?


Well, I'm not an expert but I'm positive that it's more than 1%. Remember that total cost includes not only pavement but also its maintenance. Over the years that cumulative cost may get pretty high. Besides, with current motorway tolls I don't think we're going to experience major traffic volumes, as many people will still prefer to use free alternative routes (usually the ones they are using now). I also believe (or I should say I want to believe) that some people in charge who know the drill did some economic calcualtions that reasons current 2x2 status. All the more that the stretch we are discussing is a rather rural one if you look at it


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I've read Asphalt costs € 200 per tonne.


----------



## Majestic

ChrisZwolle said:


> I've read Asphalt costs € 200 per tonne.


That doesn't mean anything unless you know how much tons per km is needed, what the cost of machines is and you also have to include base layers before asphalt.


----------



## flierfy

Majestic said:


> That doesn't mean anything unless you know how much tons per km is needed, what the cost of machines is and you also have to include base layers before asphalt.


Volume = 1.000 m * 0,45 m * 7,5 m = 3.375 m³
Density of asphalts are about 2,5 g/cm³ or 2.500 kg/m³
3.375 m³ * 2.500 kg/m³ = 8.437.500 kg = 8.437,5 t
8.437,5 t * €200/t = €1.687.500

roughly €1,7m per km


----------



## E2rdEm

^^ Thanks.

Currently the costs of A1 Grudziądz-Toruń and A2 Świecko-Nowy Tomyśl are around 12 mln EUR/km. It would mean that paving that 1 more lane (2 lanes total for both dirs) would cost additional ~14%. OK, so it's a lot more than 1%. Even if we didn't consider other layers of pavement than asphalt, and (on the other hand) that 12mEUR is a cost for a 2x2 with normal 4m median, not that "reserve in the median" variant.

Well, I'm getting a little convinced now. But it would be good to see the comparison of costs for "2x2 with 4m median" against "2x2 with 12m median". Pity noone gives such comparisons to the public.  And somehow I don't even think that our road authorities did that math... They just decided one day "let's build with a reserve" and it was all.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

€ 200 is for Dense Asphalt Concrete 0/16 per metric tonne. DAC is at least in the Netherlands never used on motorways, but we use PAC (Porous Asphalt Concrete) . Few other countries use that on their motorways. Poland seems to use some kind of regular concrete or asphalt. Not sure which one.


----------



## PLH

Stone mastic asphalt (SMA)


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## ChrisZwolle

I see, I believe it's widely used in Belgium and Germany too.


----------



## Mateusz

Big pile-up today on A2 near Poznań  41 cars crashed...


----------



## RipleyLV

^^ Wasn't the crash on Głogowskiej street in Poznan?


----------



## LMB

BND said:


> ^^ What about writing both like on Hungarian signs? For example Drezno/Dresden (D) and Praga/Praga (CZ)? Everyone wuld be satisfied IMO.


Sure that looks good, until you have a small sign and long name, such as "Warszawa/Warschau". Germans use narrower font for such occasions, it looks clumsy.


----------



## LMB

E2rdEm said:


> [...] How much cheaper than full 2x3 is it? 1%? Don't make me :lol:. Why not spend that 1% more and have full 2x3 right now?


That was said already: because of maintenance costs. There's no economical point to build 2x3 when highways are half filled. Yes, the traffic on Polish highways is far from saturated.


----------



## Euroboyy

RipleyLV said:


> ^^ Wasn't the crash on Głogowskiej street in Poznan?


Yes, it was on Glogowska, (DK 5)


----------



## Mateusz

Well, I had to hear it wrong then


----------



## PLH

*A6/S3 Interchange*


----------



## PLH




----------



## Mateusz

Really good progress

There is really good pogress in case of S3 in general, at least compaing to other expressways


----------



## Timon91

How long is this S3 section that is U/C?


----------



## PLH

81,6 km


----------



## Timon91

Completely 2×2 or just partly?


----------



## PLH

completely 2x2

I see you need to see a map:










exisiting U/C tender /tenderenvironmental decision design&build tender PPP


----------



## Timon91

I see now. Thanks for posting


----------



## PLH

The funny thing is that it is likely to be 2x2 S3 between cities, and 1x2 as their bypasses:nuts:


----------



## Majestic

PLH said:


> The funny thing is that it is likely to be 2x2 S3 between cities, and 1x2 as their bypasses:nuts:


That's ridiculous but it will be upgraded to 2x2 sooner or later. Nevertheless I like the strategy we have in Poland of building important bypasses first, rest of the roads second.


----------



## geogregor

Majestic said:


> That's ridiculous but it will be upgraded to 2x2 sooner or later. Nevertheless I like the strategy we have in Poland of building important bypasses first, rest of the roads second.


It is not strategy. It's a mess. Why bypasses, where traffic is heavies, are built in half profile?
Someone just doesn't have imagination or what?
What is the point of building half profile when you have to build second half in 2 or 3 years?
It makes sense only if you don't need to build full profile for many years. Otherwise you have two separate projects, two separate bidding processes and all the attached paperwork in relatively short space of time. Also construction of two halfs separately is more expensive as contractors have to do all the preparation works twice. It just rise cost of the whole exercise.
Plane stupid in my opinion.


----------



## Timon91

It is good that they build the bypasses first, but it's stupid that they only do it in 1×2. That's what Majestic said


----------



## bebe.2006

A4



Matz32Z said:


> http://www.zgorzelec-krzyzowa.pl/gallery.aspx
> 
> 
> Obiekt WD13
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obiekt WD 10 w zimowej szacie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obiekt WD 11
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obiekt WD 11 w zimowej szacie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Odcinek w wykopie 14+300-15+000
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Odśnieżona prawa jezdnia A4 w km 12+000-13+900
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Widok na WD 17
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Widok obiektu WD 11
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Widok z obiektu WD 6 w kierunku węzła Zgorzelec
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Widok z obiektu WD 6 na PZ 8


----------



## Chris80678

Doesn't the A4 motorway look pretty in snow? 
It's hard to believe we have to wait 7 more months for it to completely open hno:


----------



## jacekfreeman

That's an extremely rare sight ^^ :cheers: very nice 

Yup, 7 months hno: that's soooo loooong.


----------



## Strzala

I haven't seen in this thread photos from *Garwolin* 
bypass which is the part(12,8 km) of expressway 

*S-17**[E 372]

Connecting:

Warsaw<<Warszawe>> with Lublin in Poland 

and Lviw <<Lwów>> in Ukraine.*

S 17 route:











Garwolin bypass photos(opened 26 September 2007):



















































skrzat said:


> Zbliżam się do obwodnicy i robi się ciasno.
> 
> 
> 
> Jestem na WS1, zaczyna się rozluźniać.
> 
> 
> 
> Przed nami WD3.
> 
> 
> 
> Wygląda że więcej jest skręcających w prawo niz jadących obwodnicą.
> 
> 
> 
> W oddali WD-4.
> 
> 
> 
> Zagapiłem się przy WD-4 ale nikt nie zjechał z obwodnicy ani nie wjechał na nią.
> 
> To jest chyba najdłuższa prosta na obwodnicy.
> 
> 
> 
> Przed nami garb nad PG-8
> 
> 
> 
> Daleki widok na WD-9
> 
> 
> 
> Nad głową WD-9, na wschodnim pasie umiarkowany ruch.
> 
> 
> 
> Teraz zbliżamy się do WS-10
> 
> 
> 
> Widok z płaszczyzny WS-10 w stronę WD-11
> 
> 
> 
> Przed nami WD-11, zdarzył się jeden zjeżdżający wcześniej z obwodnicy.
> 
> 
> 
> Nikt nie wjeżdża z Garwolina
> 
> 
> 
> Koniec tego dobrego, redukcja do 70km na godzinę, ale zakazu wyprzedzania nie ma.
> 
> 
> 
> Znowu robi się ciasno.
> 
> 
> 
> Szerokiej drogi do Lublina, za kilkanaście kilometrów światła w Gończycach.


Film:






The first part of S17(but not signed as expressway yet 
because it has only *4,2 kilometres* lenght) 
is *Piaski* bypass (*25 kilometres to east from Lublin*) opened 
in 2004:



Strzala said:


> Fotki z lotu ptaka ze strony GDDKIA:


----------



## Mateusz

This pictures shows how much we need new signage, also for expressways... Can you imagine such signs on Warsaw Ring Road for example... or this tiny rectanglish ones for more lanes ? I hope they will change it...


----------



## RipleyLV

Mateusz said:


> Can you imagine such signs on Warsaw Ring Road for example...


Are there any plans of building a ring road for Warsaw?


----------



## PLH

^^ Not only plans, there are evisiting and U/C sections too










www.siskom.waw.pl


----------



## x-type

thanks 
how is that on A4 east from Katowice there are no tolls?


----------



## PLH

East or west? 

These are all tolled roads for today.


----------



## x-type

west  is a lot of that stretch the lousy old road, or there is more new one?


----------



## PLH

^^ Ekhm.. Every section of motorway in Poland(so A roads) has got new pavement(only A1 near Piotrków has older one, but not lousy :tongue 

Sorry for sounding like radi


----------



## Mateusz

Is there decision wether A8 will be toll or not ?


----------



## PLH

^^ No and don't start it cause noone knows that. 

It surely won't be from the very beginning of its existance


----------



## Mateusz

It shouldn't be because it is a bypass :banana:

Let's list some cities which will have a ring road ?

-Warsaw
-Łódź
-Kraków
-Wrocław
-Poznań (?) Will it have a northern bypass ? 
-Szczecin (?) This long north-western bypass is still quite unsure... ?
-Gdańsk (?) Tunnel near Sopot ?


----------



## x-type

PLH said:


> ^^ Ekhm.. Every section of motorway in Poland(so A roads) has got new pavement(only A1 near Piotrków has older one, but not lousy :tongue
> 
> Sorry for sounding like radi


oh sorry, but Chris is the one who likes to talk about lousy pavement at A4  is it past now?


----------



## Timon91

Yes, luckily. Only the A18 is still very shitty


----------



## PLH

for 3 years now.

@Timon - the shitty section of A18 isn't marked as motorway, so it doesn't count


----------



## Mateusz

Only one side though !!


----------



## Qwert

What are those dots close to Slovak border (aproximatelly in Chyżne)?


----------



## msz2

Two films which show S-7, made by Kwesto from Polish forum:

http://www.vimeo.com/2836698

http://www.vimeo.com/2828972


----------



## PLH

Qwert said:


> What are those dots close to Slovak border (aproximatelly in Chyżne)?


First thing: Never ever use Wikipedia when searching for roads.

Second thing: It's somewhere near DK 7, maybe it's S69 with screwed localisation?


----------



## Mateusz

I thought Wikipedia is good for roads... but it seems like it even fails there...


----------



## bebe.2006

New pictures of Polish roads.

1. Snow is coming:


mappero said:


>



2. Road S7 Warszawa to Radom. New section about 35 km, last 17 km U/C:


kwesto said:


>



3. Road S8 Warszawa to Bialystok. Whole new section is 30 km:



mako22 said:


>



4. New part of the road S11 Poznan to Katowice near Kornik. A new intersection U/C:



i_w said:


>


----------



## Timon91

Is that a Dutch car? 



mappero said:


>


----------



## PLH

^^ Yes, the one I told you about


----------



## Timon91

This one didn't really smash the sign though


----------



## Mateusz

Well no but still some kind of protest  Nice progress is going on A8 actually, they have started not that far ago


----------



## bebe.2006

Except for EURO2012, that will take place in June 2012, is it so bad to finish the Czestochowa - Pyrzowice section of A1 in January 2014? It's only 1,5 year difference (not 5 years), what the media now seem to forget. And there already exists a dual carriageway there.


----------



## Sponsor

Yes, but this section is quite winding, passing through villages, got no or narrow shoulders and a lot of traffic. I'd rather like the Czestochowa - Stryków section to be regular dual carriageway than Czestochowa - Silesia section.


----------



## PLH

*A8 Wrocław*








[/QUOTE]












jacek.gro said:


>


----------



## PLH

Another good news - half(eastern) of A4 Zgorzelec - Krzyzowa will be opened in March/May.


----------



## PLH

And yet another: Say bye to Jędrzychowice and Co.:hi:



















Still there are some bugs over here including old names of destination cities, but I hope this will change.


----------



## E2rdEm

E2rdEm said:


> The worst of this category is A2 Łódź (Stryków) - Warszawa (Konotopa). We're still waiting for the concession to be signed. The deadline was at the end of January, then they (candidates for concessionaires and the ministry) agreed to postopne that till the end of February. There's only 4 days left, and there's still no agreement.


We've got the news:
http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/article/in...0dbf1/id_art/46f7475b5454f112e7fefdcbd3c577c2
*Motorway A2: Section Lodz - Warsaw in the "Design and Build" system*

After analysis of the tenders of companies involved in the PPP negotiations and along with the recommendation of the General Directorate for National Roads and Highways, the Minister of Infrastructure has decided to build a 91-km long section of Highway A2 Łódź - Warszawa (Stryków - Konotopa) in the Design and Build system. This decision was taken after the complete exhaustion of the possibility of negotiating with the companies participating in the PPP tender. Financial arrangements proposed by the companies did not preserve the public interest and could result in increased fees for drivers for the section of the A2.

As ordered by the Minister for Infrastructure, the General Directorate for Roads and Highways has taken the work necessary to start construction as soon as possible. The technical documentation, prepared for the PPP, will be used, so that the tender will be announced in the second half of March with expected signing of a contract in September this year. A2 motorway between Lodz and Warsaw will be open for the drivers at EURO 2012.

27.02.2009 

^^machine-translated by Google and then updated a little...

Is it good news or bad news? You tell me... :dunno:
The other sources say that money for this will be taken away from the A4 section Tarnów - Ukrainian border


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> The other sources say that money for this will be taken away from the A4 section Tarnów - Ukrainian border


The A2 is somewhat more urgent in my opinion.


----------



## PLH

Those 'other sources' are probably highly unreliable, so I wouldn't worry much about the A4.


----------



## Majestic

That means at least another 6 months of delay, let's hope the last one.


----------



## karejeeta

So the A2 connectiong Lodz and warsaw will be built for the Euro 2012??


----------



## Perun

^^


> A2 motorway between Lodz and Warsaw will be open for the drivers at EURO 2012.


So probably - yes.


----------



## gramercy

dont be sad

hungarian city will host european culture of capital in 2010: they are still digging 2000 year old graves and the highway wont be ready until the end of the year
woo-hoo [/sarcasm]


----------



## Mateusz

Good to see that they chage this signs


----------



## bebe.2006

S3 Szczecin - Gorzow U/C:



kilof said:


> Witam wszystkich forumnowiczów, pasjonatów i budowniczych!
> Dziś wybrałem się na przechadzkę od węzła "Gryfino" do węzła "Klucz"
> Pogoda piękna, cisza i spokój, tylko śpiew ptaków.
> 
> Wielkie dzięki Garym za szybką pomoc!
> 
> FOTKI CZ.1
> 
> OBIEKT NR 8
> 
> 
> OBIEKT NR 9 WIDOK W KIERUNKU GORZOWA
> 
> 
> WIDOK W KIERUNKU GORZOWA
> 
> 
> OBIEKT NR 7 WIDOK W STRONĘ SZCZECINA
> 
> 
> ŁĄCZNICA BC WĘZEŁ GRYFINO
> 
> 
> WIDOK W KIERUNKU GORZOWA
> 
> 
> OBIEKT NR 6
> 
> 
> OBIEKT NR 6 WIDOK W STRONĘ GORZOWA
> 
> 
> WIDOK W STRONĘ SZCZECINA
> 
> 
> OBIEKT NR 6 (TAM GDZIE DŹWIG PO PRAWEJ), W ODDALI 7,8
> 
> 
> OBIEKT NR 5B
> 
> 
> ZBLIŻENIE
> 
> 
> OBIEKT 5A WIDOK W STRONĘ SZCZECINA
> 
> 
> CDN...


----------



## bebe.2006

and so on:



kilof said:


> FOTKI CZ 2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BEFOR AND AFTER:


----------



## PLH

Time for the new map:

Existing
U/C
Tender (yellow)
Environmental location 
Design&build tender
PPP - U/C soon


----------



## karejeeta

Ive heard lots of rumors that the A2 from Lodz to Warsaw wont be built for the Euro but ive also heard that it will. Does anybody know which isnt a rumor and any supporting detail to the fact that it will be built as im hopeing for!!


----------



## E2rdEm

^^ What do you expect beside rumours? Well, they are not rumours - they are predictions in a completely uncertain situation. It's like predicting right now (when the global economy is in deep ... swamp) what will be the price of oil in 2 years. :nuts:

I mean, the motorway is not designed yet. 20% of the land is still not exprpopriated. The tender is not announced, so we don't even know how long will it take with the tender itself - I mean with all the usual protests of the competitors...

If you want the final answer right now, you must be crazy. Or you should go to a fortune-teller.


----------



## Micrav

And A2 from German border to Nowy Tomysl? Any idea? It is getting looooong.
Any picture of work if it is in work? it would boost the development of all Poland, I wander why such delay, some people must be crazy... in front of such vital axis for Poland...

They could also finish the leftovers between Warsaw and Bialystok...


----------



## PLH

Micrav said:


> Any picture of work if it is in work?


No work no picture  Try in a month.


----------



## karejeeta

The tender for the completetion of the A4 from Jarosław to Korczowa ( border with Ukraine) has been anounnced with a total of 47 km. 
In Polish Only Sorry

Ogłoszono przetarg na budowę 47- kilometrowego odcinka autostrady A4 Jarosław - Korczowa, od węzła w miejscowości Wierzbna do granicy państwa.

Jest to pierwsza na Podkarpaciu inwestycja drogowa, która będzie realizowana w systemie „Projektuj i Buduj". Istotą tego systemu jest skrócenie czasu wykonania zadania. Zakłada on zastąpienie dwóch odrębnych przetargów (na projektowanie i realizację inwestycji) jednym. Wykonawca sam projektuje drogę, którą następnie buduje. Termin składania ofert mija 3 kwietnia. Zwycięzca przetargu wykona dokumentację projektową, uzyska w imieniu inwestora wymagane decyzje administracyjne oraz wykona roboty budowlane.

- Przebieg autostrady A4 na Podkarpaciu z Rzeszowa do Korczowej został zatwierdzony decyzją środowiskową Regionalnego Dyrektora Ochrony Środowiska pod koniec grudnia. Odcinek objęty przetargiem, czyli fragment Jarosław - Korczowa, został podzielony na dwie części: Wierzbna - Radymno o długości 25 km oraz Radymno - Korczowa o długości 22 km - poinformowała Joanna Rarus, rzeczniczka rzeszowskiego oddziału GDDKiA. 
Autostrada A4 o długości 670 km przebiegać będzie od dawnego przejścia granicznego z Niemcami koło Zgorzelca poprzez Wrocław, Opole, Kraków, Tarnów i Rzeszów do przejścia granicznego z Ukrainą w Korczowej. 
:banana:


----------



## Mathes

Hello,
I have a question:

How is "Obwodnica Slupska" planned?
I heard that it will be a combination of 1x2 and 2x2 road. 
But how it´s planned for the future?
Is the width of the road made for 2x2 roads and only one lane will be asphalted?
(like "Obwodnica Chojnic" or S22 Elblag-Russian Border)
Or has it got a "special" width whereby you´re forced to change it while constructing the whole expressway S6 Szczecin-Gdansk in 2x2 Style ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

karejeeta said:


> The tender for the completetion of the A4 from Jarosław to Korczowa ( border with Ukraine) has been anounnced with a total of 47 km.
> In Polish Only Sorry
> :


So this:


----------



## PLH

Mathes said:


> But how it´s planned for the future?


All viaducts will have a 2x2 reserve.



ChrisZwolle said:


> So this:


Good enough for border control-queue parking


----------



## Majestic

> All viaducts will have a 2x2 reserve.


Actually the viaducts will BE 2x2.




> Good enough for border control-queue parking


:lol: Yeah, let's make it 8 lanes at the border


----------



## PLH

Majestic said:


> :lol: Yeah, let's make it 8 lanes at the border


Well, I suppose that there will be at leas two lanes for trucks to park on, and another two for otheres.


----------



## karejeeta

ChrisZwolle said:


> So this:


Yahh that it


----------



## Majestic

4 people dead and 5 in serious condition after 3 cars hit the back of a truck and burst into flames on A18 at 1.00 a.m. Apparently the truck driver was trying to make a U-turn (don't ask me how). hno:


----------



## Mateusz

This lorry driver was so irresponsible

R.I.P


----------



## Timon91

Silly truck driver. Where exactly was this?


----------



## PLH

I don't know exactly, but there is one place with a semi-official exit to some storehouses or sth and it could have been there.

I woder why police cares about people going too fast on the motorways and do not give a shit about thishno:


----------



## msz2

Film about the accident:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7d44-O-Qn8


----------



## Majestic

^^ That' s a video of another accident, added 14.01.2008!


----------



## Biesiada

msz2 said:


> Film about the accident:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7d44-O-Qn8


we shouldn't build any motorways if such tragedies are happening there...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

motorways are the safest roads you can possibly think of...


----------



## kalle_sg

^^ Still, there are much safer means of transportation that any roads in general. Railway, namely


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Safer, yes, but by far less efficient.


----------



## Biesiada

bicycles are also quite safe, unless you have lithuanian TIR driver behind you :lol:


----------



## Majestic

Allright, guys back on track. 


Another agreement with the contractors was signed today. This time for *8 km of A1* in highly-urbanized area (Węzeł Sośnica - Węzeł Maciejów) at the cost of *€232 000 000*. This motorway will be built in 2x3 standard, it will feature 2 viaducts, one of which is going to be 1,6km long.
It's this section here:


----------



## mphws

msz2 said:


> Film about the accident:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7d44-O-Qn8


^^
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zh8niMlTVc


----------



## Rusonaldo

Po cholere zamieszczacie te filmiki. Czy one maja cos wspólnego z infrastrukturą drogową w Polsce?? Czy ludzie z zagranicy rozumieją co mówi polski strażak??


----------



## msz2

Rusonaldo said:


> Po cholere zamieszczacie te filmiki. Czy one maja cos wspólnego z infrastrukturą drogową w Polsce?? Czy ludzie z zagranicy rozumieją co mówi polski strażak??


People from abroad probably don't understand what Polish fireman said, but without any doubt they do understand the pictures and for 100% foreigners can't read in Polish so write your post in English if you don't mind.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Rusonaldo said:


> Po cholere zamieszczacie te filmiki. Czy one maja cos wspólnego z infrastrukturą drogową w Polsce?? Czy ludzie z zagranicy rozumieją co mówi polski strażak??


Heej maat, hoe issie er mee? Weetje, de voertaal is hier Engels, dus ik snap niks van jouw Pools, en jij niks van mijn Nederlands 

So, let's continue in English, shall we?


----------



## Chris80678

So when is the construction of the 8km A1 motorway from Sośnica to Maciejów going to start? ^^ It's good that Gliwice will have a southern and eastern bypass. It really should start now so that it can be linked to Sośnica interchange when it is finished in October :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What's the status of the S8 in the Rospuda "valley"? I haven't heard about it for a while now. It was even in the Dutch media.


----------



## bebe.2006

Majestic said:


>


I allways thoght this section will go from A4 (here E40) only to the road 88. Nice surprise.


----------



## E2rdEm

ChrisZwolle said:


> What's the status of the S8 in the Rospuda "valley"?


The new environmental-impact report is ready. It clearly shows that the idea of digging in the swamp was just stupid. The alternative route around the Rospuda valley (through Raczki) was found waaaay better for the environment and also better using other criteria (I might add it's also cheaper). Now the report will go to the Ministry of Environment for evaluation.
http://translate.google.com/transla...b6&hl=pl&langpair=auto|en&tbb=1&ie=ISO-8859-2


----------



## Mateusz

Basically it is cancelled for now... Road will be built, but in other variant, somewhen in future


----------



## bebe.2006

ChrisZwolle said:


> What's the status of the S8 in the Rospuda "valley"? I haven't heard about it for a while now. It was even in the Dutch media.


The conclusions of a new environmental study will be publish in next weeks. Inofficial is confirmed the road will go not through Rospuda valley near Augustow but more west near village Raczki.

So when the new localization is known next levels can begin: tender for new construction plan, then tender for construction and so on ... years maybe.
Only a little part of the Augustow baypass has been built (the one that not go through Rospuda valley). The rest of the old build-contract has been stopped.


----------



## kalle_sg

bebe.2006 said:


> I allways thoght this section will go from A4 (here E40) only to the road 88.


And you were right. According to info on GDDKiA's website, this section starts at Sośnica interchange (E40/A4 and road no. 44) and ends at Maciejów interchange (road no. 88). It's 6 kilometres - and not 8, as Majestic has written. He made a mistake. The further northern part belongs to another section.


----------



## Majestic

Well, it says "od km 510+530 do km 518+734,34" in the project info which would make it over 8km but these 2km probably include ramps and viaducts of Maciejów intersection so the actual motorway stretch is 6km long.


----------



## PLH

*A4 near Zgorzelec and A4/A8 Interchange in Wrocław:*

http://s578.photobucket.com/albums/ss228/Bartek610


----------



## Majestic

^^ This 40 km/h A4 speed limit in the 9th picture must be a joke :bash:


----------



## PLH

Yeah, Germans are funny people. But since it's near Poland, just look for the cops not to be around


----------



## Mateusz

German Autobahnpolizei infiltrating Polish motorways ?


----------



## LMB

Biesiada said:


> bicycles are also quite safe, unless you have lithuanian TIR driver behind you :lol:


If it's Lithuanian, then it's not TIR, because it's not crossing a border. 

Call things by their names, it's a truck.


----------



## x-type

LMB said:


> If it's Lithuanian, then it's not TIR, because it's not crossing a border.
> 
> Call things by their names, it's a truck.


so you think there are no Lithuanian lorries under TIR convention?


----------



## mickyboy

*Zgorzelec to Krzyżowa*

Any news when this stretch of A4 will open? I have seen some shots and it appears to be complete so why can;t we use it?


----------



## PLH

It's NOT completed yet. It will be opened somewhere around holidays, but noone knows when exactly.


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## msz2

S-7 construction site near Kielce




















[/URL


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## ChrisZwolle

Jakub Warszauer said:


> A2 Warsaw - Brest is not a priority. Observed and predicted traffic on this corridor does not justify such investment. Yet.


I agree, completing the S3, S7, S8, A1, A2 west of Warszawa and an S/A6 are more important now, as well as bypasses for towns.


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

ElviS77 said:


> Might have been touched upon already, but will there be a ring road system around Warsaw?


There are no plans for ring road like Berlins A10 or Londons M25. 90% of traffic in Warsaw metropolitan area is connected directly to the city. This is why a priority is to build an innger ring road like Boulevard Périphérique in Paris. It is going to be an expressway with minimum 2x3 lanes in each direction (without counting intersection lanes). "Inner road" means that it goes either near city boundaries or through its outskirts.

Except for that, two additional ring roads are to be constructed, but they have to be financed from Warsaw's own budget, which causes serious doubts about those projects. Only short and unconnected stretches are operational. One will surround city center, the second will support expressway ring road.

Regards,


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> I agree, completing the S3, S7, S8, A1, A2 west of Warszawa and an S/A6 are more important now, as well as bypasses for towns.


As far as I know, Szczecin - Gdańsk motorway (Road No. 6 corridor / S6 /A6) as w whole is also not justified by traffic predictions. Some bypasses yes, nothing else.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think it would be a great boost for tourism along the Polish coast and the Mazuric lake area. People scare off when they're used to endless Autoroutes in France. Traffic safety and regional economic developments are also arguments to build a motorway even when traffic volumes do not necessarily require it, heck, a lot of motorways in Europe are not needed from a capacity-point-of-view.


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think it would be a great boost for tourism along the Polish coast and the Mazuric lake area. People scare off when they're used to endless Autoroutes in France. Traffic safety and regional economic developments are also arguments to build a motorway even when traffic volumes do not necessarily require it, heck, a lot of motorways in Europe are not needed from a capacity-point-of-view.


Either we decide to give priority to the most cost-benefit effecive projects or we don't. If one agrees for an exception for A6 (because of tourism) why don't give cuch a favour to A2 (in order to... strenghten our strategic relations with Belarus )?. We already made one concession, A4 to Ukraine.

Yes, I now that A6 makes sense. But lets build the main grid first, get a bit richer, and then create our own "Motorway of the Sun".

And one more thing: there will never be A6 to Mazuy region. Too many National Parks, Nature 2000 areas, Preservation Areas and so on. The whole "Rospuda Valley" dispute will seem to be a pleasant engish-gentleman discussion comparing to this. One expressway, a modernized National Road No. 16 will be a success. There is already one dispute about a proposed bypass.

Regards,


----------



## Majestic

A6 in form of a motorway or just a GP-class road with town bypasses is important as a route providing a quick connection between Pomeranian cities with their remote administratory centers (Szczecin and Gdańsk) and boosting regional economies. That might put an end to ever-existing and sensless ideas of creating a Mid-Pomeranian Voivodeship led by cities of Koszalin and Słupsk, cities that claim to be neglected and isolated from their admin centers.
Tourism will hardly benefit as even with current, under-developed road network in this region, sea resorts literally swarm with domestic and foreign tourists in summer. 

As for other roads, the priorities IMO should be:
*S5* connecting major agglomerations of Bydgoszcz, Poznań and Wrocław and providing a quick connection A1-A4 westbound
*S8* connecting Wrocław to Łódź and Warsaw
*S7* Warszawa - Kielce - Kraków
*S3* which is an important link connecting port of Szczecin with industrial south and 2 major western cities of Gorzów and Zielona Góra

I'm sceptical about the importance of S7 W-wa - Gdańsk. It's virtually and alternative to A1/A2 connection which would probably provide even faster connection than directly via S7 :lol:


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## E2rdEm

^^ Polish expressway network according to Majestic:



:lol: Hey, Majestic, add S11 to your priorities list... :nuts:

As if to the east and north of Warsaw there was only wildlife. And maybe scarcely populated areas, where locals use horses for their transportation needs. Maybe - because noone ever goes there to check. :cheers:



Majestic said:


> I'm sceptical about the importance of S7 W-wa - Gdańsk. It's virtually and alternative to A1/A2 connection which would probably provide even faster connection than directly via S7 :lol:


That's very ........ interesting opinion. :nuts: I mean: look at the map above...


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## msz2

New section of S-7 just has started from Skarzysko to Kielce 16km:


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## msz2

"I'm sceptical about the importance of S7 W-wa - Gdańsk. It's virtually and alternative to A1/A2 connection which would probably provide even faster connection than directly via S7."

I wouldn't say that via A1/A2 will be faster than via S-7, provaided that those road will appear one day.

Let's make some calculations. Distanse from Warsaw to Gdansk via A-2/A-1 is 390km, via S-7 is 320. Let's assume that we obey traffic regulations and drive 130 on motorways ans 110 on expresway. Then we have 3h via motorways and 2h 54min via expressway. I of course aware that average speed will be lower, but I had to assume something.


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## msz2

Some photos from real work on S-7:


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## Majestic

E2rdEm said:


> ^^ Polish expressway network according to Majestic:


I'm not disupting here about which roads should and which should not be built. In the long term all planned m'ways and expy's should eventually be completed. I'm only saying which of those should be in operation within the next few years (or at least until 2015 according to the national plan of road construction) either because of high/excessive traffic volumes or because of connection between big and important cities and regions. 

The whole idea behind expressways is to provide a fast and efficient connection between major cities and regions, just as motorways are supposed to provide high-capacity transit along N-S and W-E corridors. At least that's the theoretical reason for having those 2 road categories at the same time.

I strongly advocate building such roads like S19 or S12 but comparing their current traffic volumes they are nowhere as important as S5 or S7 south of Warsaw for the time being. And that's my opinion. 

You can always argue that S19 between Białystok, Lublin and Rzeszów (combined population 820,000) is more neccesssary than S5 connecting Bydgoszcz, Poznań and Wrocław (pop. 1,650,000). That's also your opinion.



E2rdEm said:


> :lol: Hey, Majestic, add S11 to your priorities list... :nuts:


 
Nah, S11 is not justified by any traffic volumes at the moment. Besides, only the stretch north of Poznań has got any sense since southern section runs parallel to S5/A4.

If you think I am driven by any sort of local patriotism, well, that's wrong. I'm not even from Poznań and considering from where I come I should be a die hard supporter of S6 and S11 which is not the case.



E2rdEm said:


> As if to the east and north of Warsaw there was only wildlife. And maybe scarcely populated areas, where locals use horses for their transportation needs. Maybe - because noone ever goes there to check. :cheers:


That's right, why spoil the untouched nature with an intrusive and harmful high-speed road :lol:
Seriously, every region could use a new infrastructure project every now and then but again, let's look at the traffic needs first.




> Let's make some calculations. Distanse from Warsaw to Gdansk via A-2/A-1 is 390km, via S-7 is 320. Let's assume that we obey traffic regulations and drive 130 on motorways ans 110 on expresway. Then we have 3h via motorways and 2h 54min via expressway. I of course aware that average speed will be lower, but I had to assume something.


6 mins, wow, that's really a reason to use S7 instead :|


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## msz2

Timon91 said:


> Poles do that anyway, nothing changes



Is het Nederlands nog nooit in strijd zijn met de weg?

(I am not sure is it correct).


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## E2rdEm

Majestic said:


> I'm only saying which of those should be in operation within the next few years (...) either because of high/excessive traffic volumes or because of connection between big and important cities and regions.


Yeah, you just confirmed my opinion about your statement: You just _*know*_ that in the east they ride horses. That's why you _*know*_ the traffic volumes are veeeery low over there.

But let's look at the facts - the AADT statistics for 2005 http://www.siskom.waw.pl/nauka-gpr.htm#gpr2005

S5, which is so very important to you:
Highest AADT: 24663 just outside Poznań, which drops to 16653 after a few kms. 
Lowest AADT: 5648 north of Gniezno. Which means that the daily traffic between Poznań and Bydgoszcz (including to Gdańsk) is probably less than 5,000. Yet, to you it's very important connection between cities.

S8, where you are sure it should go no further than Warsaw:
Highest AADT is around Warsaw, which is strictly local traffic, so let's rule this out. We still have 19.775 on Radzymin-Wyszków.
Lowest AADT before Białystok is 9103. This means that daily traffic between Warszawa and Białystok is probably around 9,000 = 80% more than your "important link between cities".

Look at the DK17 going east from Lublin. The same pattern as the DK5 from Poznań - 29834 in the outskirts of the city and drops to 16874 right away. Have you noticed the numbers are slightly higher here than in Poznań?

Do I have to cite the AADT on S7 Warsaw-Gdańsk that you ruled out?


But the facts are nothing. You just *know* there's no traffic in the east. hno:

I just hope the authorities will not be as prejudiced as you, and they compare _real_ traffic volumes and _real_ accident statistics. About the latter: have you heard the latest report where DK17 Warszawa-Lublin was considered the most dangerous road in Poland, with the highest rate of fatalities per km, mostly blamed to big traffic?


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## Majestic

> Yeah, you just confirmed my opinion about your statement: You just know that in the east they ride horses. That's why you know the traffic volumes are veeeery low over there.


:lol: 

Are you serious?



> But the facts are nothing. You just know there's no traffic in the east.


Oh my god, the more i read, the more I'm afraid you really believe in what you're saying.



> Look at the DK17 going east from Lublin. The same pattern as the DK5 from Poznań - 29834 in the outskirts of the city and drops to 16874 right away. Have you noticed the numbers are slightly higher here than in Poznań?


You're totally missing the point. You're talking about commuter traffic volumes which are always high around every city in Poland. That's why Poznań has a couple of 2x2 radial highways to handle this excessive commuter traffic for the same reason Lublin has its 2x2 DK12 stretch. 

Now if you look at non-commuter traffic volumes, voila, here's the difference. Lowest on S19 route is 1,900 with an average around 4,500-5,000 while on S5 it never gets below 5,500 and A1 - Bydgoszcz and Poznań - Wrocław get 10,000 on average. Isn't that enough?



> S8, where you are sure it should go no further than Warsaw


I never said that. Traffic volume is significant and that's why it currently IS being upgraded to expressway which I fully support all the way to Białystok.



> Do I have to cite the AADT on S7 Warsaw-Gdańsk that you ruled out?


Do your homework and tell me how will the AADT change A1/A2 is finished.


I don't understand your hysterical reaction after all. You can have your own opinion about which roads should be priority and which not just as I expressed mine.


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## E2rdEm

Majestic said:


> Are you serious?


Totally serious. 



Majestic said:


> Now if you look at non-commuter traffic volumes, voila, here's the difference. Lowest on S19 route is 1,900 with an average around 4,500-5,000 while on S5 it never gets below 5,500 and A1 - Bydgoszcz and Poznań - Wrocław get 10,000 on average. Isn't that enough?


No, I'm not mixing commuter traffic to this. I specially tried to isolate inter-city traffic - haven't you noticed?

I'm not advocating S19 between Białystok and Lublin. Building that road right now would be completely stupid political decision. And my rant is not about that. 

It's about assuming that S5 is a vital link for the big cities, while "S7-north", S17 or "S8-east" can be postponed. (after all, you *did* say that S8 is enough to link Wrocław to Warszawa, further part to Białystok was not a priority in your first post). All those roads connect cities with higher population than those along S5. :angel: That's because Warsaw alone has bigger population than Gdańsk, Poznań and Wrocław combined.  But it goes to show that whatever measurable criteria you try to use - you will fail. Your preference of S5 over roads in the north/east has nothing to do with the facts, it's just an opinion. But it's very popular in the western part of Poland, and I just try to question that opinion before it turns into a "fact". Am I overreacting? :runaway:



Majestic said:


> [S7-north]
> Do your homework and tell me how will the AADT change A1/A2 is finished.


Not much. S7 over A1+A2 is the same time, but 70 km less (= less fuel consumed = cheaper), with lower speeds (= less fuel consumed = cheaper) and free of tolls (= cheaper). Why pay more for the same "product" (travel time)?


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## Majestic

> All those roads connect cities with higher population than those along S5. :angel: That's because Warsaw alone has bigger population than Gdańsk, Poznań and Wrocław combined.


That's just trying to be a smartass.



> Your preference of S5 over roads in the north/east has nothing to do with the facts, it's just an opinion.


Your preference of S7, S8 and S17 over roads in the west has nothing to do with the facts, it's just an opinion.

Bottomline is: I see S5, S8 and southern S7 being more vital, you, on the contrary, believe S17 and northern S7 are more important at the moment. Note that I'm talking about nearest future only, all roads you mentioned are fairly neccessary anyway. 
(BTW, interestingly, in accordance with the saying that _all roads lead to Rome_, all of them lead to Warsaw. Are you from Warsaw possibly?)




> Not much. S7 over A1+A2 is the same time, but 70 km less (= less fuel consumed = cheaper), with lower speeds (= less fuel consumed = cheaper) and free of tolls (= cheaper). Why pay more for the same "product" (travel time)?


Thing is I meant DK7 traffic upon completion of A1/A2 not S7 which does not yet exist. With a motorway connection most of the thru-traffic would be diverted from DK7.
Obviously with S7 completed anyone in his sane mind would rather take free-of-toll expressway but that's not the point here. Expressways are not supposed to compete with motorways!


----------



## E2rdEm

Majestic said:


> Your preference of S7, S8 and S17 over roads in the west has nothing to do with the facts, it's just an opinion.


Oh, really? DK17 with average AADT 10,000, with peaks at 14,000 as far away from Warsaw as 50 km, and 17,000 near Lublin, with highest-in-the-country fatalities rate - should never, by any means, be preferred over DK3 with average AADT of 8-9,000, with peaks at 13,000 near Zielona Góra, which links so important cities as Gorzów Wlkp. and Zielona Góra?
Nothing to do with the facts. Right.



Majestic said:


> (BTW, interestingly, in accordance with the saying that _all roads lead to Rome_, all of them lead to Warsaw. Are you from Warsaw possibly?)


Look to the left of my post. My location is no secret.



Majestic said:


> Expressways are not supposed to compete with motorways!


And you say that S7-north will compete with A1+A2? :gaah: Why don't you say that S7-south will compete with A2+A1+A4? Personally, I know many people who currently go from Warsaw to Cracow over DK8+DK1+A4, bypassing DK7 completely. I've heard about those trying to go from Warsaw to Gdańsk over DK10+A1, but I really can't imagine anyone going back to the outskirts of Łódź to go to Gdańsk. :?

I'll try not to take this :rant: any further, but your ideas of what is necessary and what is obsolete are so... :shifty:weird.


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## snipe65

Poland closer to Warsaw-Lodz highway

Next week the Ministry of Infrastructure will open a tender for building a highway between Warsaw and Lodz in Central Poland. 

The new highway plans to be opened before the EURO 2012 Championship in Poland and Ukraine. 

The ministry has decided that the road building will be divided into five parts, each being realized simultaneously. The strategy should guarantee finishing the project in time, says the government.

http://www.polskieradio.pl/thenews/business/artykul104962_poland_closer_to_warsaw_lodz_highway_.html


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## Verso

Majestic said:


> 6 mins, wow, that's really a reason to use S7 instead :|


I'd use S7. 



Majestic said:


> Obviously with S7 completed anyone in his sane mind would rather take free-of-toll expressway but that's not the point here. Expressways are not supposed to compete with motorways!


Then either build a direct motorway between Warsaw and Gdańsk instead of expressway, or don't build anything at all. But as that area needs at least an expressway, go for the former option. We have a similar situation with two parallel motorways/expressways between Slovenia and Italy. One is a motorway, the other one expressway, so either upgrade it to a motorway, or stop signing SLO/I over the expressway (for local needs a motorway isn't needed). But the expressway is just a couple of kms shorter than the motorway.


----------



## geogregor

PLH said:


>


Has polish police changed colours of their cruisers?
I have never seen it before.
It looks much better than the old, ugly, dirty, dark blue.
Especially with the white doors.uke:


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## PLH

*A2 Łódź - Warsaw bidding ANNOUNCED !!! * :cheers: :dance:


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## snipe65

bebe.2006 said:


> Roads U/C:
> 
> by toonczyk & me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> motorways: green
> expresways 2x2: blue
> expressways 1x2: purple
> together dual carriageway: red
> together: black


Would it be possible to display the total km of finished roads ?


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## Timon91

Great graphs. There should be some kind of temporary law that makes it much easier to build new roads very fast. That might work, but than there are still NIMBY's hno:


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## ChrisZwolle

The government creates the law themselves, also the long procedures. In my opinion, the period between the announcement and actual construction should be much shorter, only like 3 months for NIMBY's to make objections, and 3 months to deal with those.


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## Mateusz

PLH said:


> *A2 Łódź - Warsaw bidding ANNOUNCED !!! * :cheers: :dance:


At last !!! :cheers:

This road, even in Interbellum Period was seen as a priority in plans 


Law ? I think we had introduced something like 'specustawa' what means specialistic act


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## Jakub Warszauer

Just for full information: the bidding is for "design & build" project. Which means, that even after choosing the best offer we will wait more than few months before real contruction begins. There are six bids: five for successive stretches + one for project managment and controlling.

The so called "*Specustawa*" (I hate that russian manner spreading in our language) deals only with administration-law obstacles, not enviromental regulations. The latter are even more difficult for our administration to fulfill.


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## ChrisZwolle

Does it mean the construction of the A2 is legally secured and cannot delayed any further?


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## msz2

S-7 form Kielce to Skarzysko (earth works):


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## Mateusz

Jakub Warszauer said:


> Just for full information: the bidding is for "design & build" project. Which means, that even after choosing the best offer we will wait more than few months before real contruction begins. There are six bids: five for successive stretches + one for project managment and controlling.
> 
> The so called "*Specustawa*" (I hate that russian manner spreading in our language) deals only with administration-law obstacles, not enviromental regulations. The latter are even more difficult for our administration to fulfill.


I noticed that... but it seems like everyone was using the term specustawa on FPW ? What is a proper name for it ?


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## bebe.2006

ChrisZwolle said:


> I can only applaud the effort Polish SSC-members put in graphs and statistics like this! :applause:


thanks



snipe65 said:


> Would it be possible to display the total km of finished roads ?


Here you go:

*I. Existed roads:*



Code:


Month      A 2x2       S 2x2       S 1x2              Together 2x2     Together
________________________________________________________________________________

[COLOR=Blue]01-2000       284         136          77                   420          497[/COLOR]

[COLOR=Blue]01-2001       374         136          77                   510          587[/COLOR]

[COLOR=Blue]01-2002       412         136          77                   548          625[/COLOR]

[COLOR=Blue]01-2003       418         136          80                   554          634[/COLOR]

[COLOR=Blue]01-2004       486         151          85                   637          722[/COLOR]

[COLOR=Blue]01-2005       536         155          85                   691          776[/COLOR]

[COLOR=Blue]01-2006       570         175         100                   745          845[/COLOR]
05-2006       570         175         100                   745          845
09-2006       674         178         112                   852          964

[COLOR=Blue]01-2007       741         203         133                   944         1077[/COLOR]
05-2007       741         203         133                   944         1077
09-2007       741         203         133                   944         1077

[COLOR=Blue]01-2008       765         233         150                   998         1148[/COLOR]
05-2008       765         245         159                  1010         1169
09-2008       765         265         160                  1030         1190

[COLOR=Blue]01-2009       831         288         228                  1119         1347[/COLOR]


*Graphic by toonczyk (stan 12/2008):*









motorways: green
expresways 2x2: blue
expressways 1x2: purple
together dual carriageway: red
together: black
*________________________________*


*II. Roads U/C:*




Code:


Month      A 2x2       S 2x2       S 1x2              Together 2x2     Together
________________________________________________________________________________

[COLOR=Blue]01-2000       142           0           0                   142          142[/COLOR]

[COLOR=Blue]01-2001        59           0           3                    59           62[/COLOR]

[COLOR=Blue]01-2002        38          15           5                    53           58[/COLOR]

[COLOR=Blue]01-2003       135          31           5                   166          171[/COLOR]

[COLOR=Blue]01-2004        86          38           3                   124          127[/COLOR]

[COLOR=Blue]01-2005       208          61          36                   269          305[/COLOR]

[COLOR=Blue]01-2006       262          68          54                   330          384[/COLOR]
05-2006       262          94          92                   356          448
09-2006       148         112         111                   260          371

[COLOR=Blue]01-2007       154         112         101                   266          367[/COLOR]
05-2007       174         115         122                   289          411
09-2007       174         123         123                   297          420

[COLOR=Blue]01-2008       168         173          90                   341          431[/COLOR]
05-2008       168         213          81                   381          462
09-2008       249         211          93                   460          553

[COLOR=Blue]01-2009       208         217          26                   425          451[/COLOR]

current       217         234          26                   451          477


*Graphic by toonczyk:*










motorways: green
expresways 2x2: blue
expressways 1x2: purple
together dual carriageway: red
together: black
*________________________________*

*III. Roads completed in year:*




Code:


Year         A 2x2       S 2x2       S 1x2             Together 2x2    Together
______________________________________________________________________________

2000           90           0           0                   90           90
2001           38           0           0                   38           38
2002            5           0           3                    5            8
2003           69          15           5                   84           89
2004           50           4           0                   54           54
2005           34          20          15                   54           69
2006          174          28          23                  202          225
2007           24          30          28                   54           82
2008           65          54          87                  119          206
2009*          87         105          16                  192          208
2010*          46         102           9                  148          157
2011*         189          27           0                  216          216
2012*         105           0           0                  105          105
2013*           0           0           0                    0            0
2014*          57           0           0                   57           57

* - planned completion (only roads which the build contracts are already signed)

*Graphic toonczyk (03/2009):*









motorways: green
expresways 2x2: blue
expressways 1x2: purple
together dual carriageway: red
together: black


*________________________________*


----------



## karejeeta

Przetargi na A2 Łódź-Warszawa ogłoszone

Przetargi na budowę autostrady A2 z Łodzi do Warszawy oraz na nadzór nad budową zostały ogłoszone w piątek, 27 marca, przez Generalną Dyrekcję Dróg Krajowych i Autostrad, zgodnie z harmonogramem przedstawionym 27 lutego, po zakończeniu negocjacji na budowę tej trasy w systemie Partnerstwa Publiczno-Prywatnego. Podpisanie umów przewidziane jest na wrzesień 2009 roku. Firmy mają na projekt i budowę 32 miesiące. Kierowcy będą mogli przejechać tym odcinkiem na Euro 2012.


Autostrada A2 z Łodzi do Warszawy (91 km) została podzielona na pięć odcinków. Znacząco zwiększy to konkurencyjność i możliwe jest uzyskanie niższej ceny. Dodatkowo, krótsze odcinki spowodują skrócenie czasu realizacji. Dla skoordynowania prac dla wszystkich odcinków wybrany zostanie jedna firma nadzorująca i projekt i budowę.

Odcinek Łódź-Warszawa, zgodnie z warunkami ogłoszonego w piątek przetargu, powstanie w systemie Projektuj i Buduj. System ten został wybrany przez GDDKiA jako najbardziej optymalny dla jak najszybszego uruchomienia tego odcinka A2. W systemie Projektuj i Buduj wybierany jest jeden wykonawca tak do projektu budowlanego, jak i do budowy. Pozwala to zaoszczędzić czas na wyłanianie wykonawcy w odrębnym przetargu, a także eliminuje potencjalne konflikty podczas budowy między projektantem a wykonawcą. 

27.03.2009

In English 
Tenders A2 Lodz-Warsaw announced 

Tenders for the construction of Highway A2 from Lodz to Warsaw and to the supervision of the construction was announced on Friday, 27 March, by the General Directorate for National Roads and Highways, in accordance with the timetable set out Feb. 27, after the conclusion of the negotiations for the construction of this route in the Public-Private Partnership . The signing of contracts is provided in September 2009. Companies have the design and construction of 32 months. Drivers will be able to pass this section on the Euro 2012. 


Highway A2 from Lodz to Warsaw (91 km) was divided into five sections. Significantly improve the competitiveness and it is possible to obtain lower prices. In addition, shorter segments will result in shorter execution time. To coordinate the work of all sections of the selected company will be a supervisor and the design and construction. 

Episode Lodz-Warsaw, in accordance with the terms of the tender announced on Friday, the formation in the Design and Build. This system was chosen by GDDKiA as best as soon as possible to run a section of A2. In the Design and Build is selected as a contractor for a construction project, as well as to construction. This helps to save time for the emergence of the contractor in a separate tender, and also eliminates potential conflicts during construction between the designer and the contractor. 

27.03.2009

Source www.gddkia.gov.pl for Polish :banana: :banana: :banana:
Souce google translate for English :banana::banana::banana:


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## E2rdEm

ChrisZwolle said:


> Does it mean the construction of the A2 is legally secured and cannot delayed any further?


You want the risk assesment here? :nuts:

Well, let's try:

The bidding process. We are at the very beginning of it. There are 6 bids, independent of each other. That means that there should be 6 independent groups of people at the road authorities to decide the winner. I'm not sure if they have enough people, so they may assign the same people - at least in part - to more than one bid. These people won't have enough time, the bidding can take longer because of that.
There is currently a fashion in such large bids in Poland to ask numerous questions ("the specifications are not clear if... please explain..."). By asking questions, the bidders want to delay the process to better prepare the final offer, or to have time to finish other contracts before they can take this one, etc. etc. But - the road authorities assumed that they will announce the winner in September, so they seem to have taken those two obstacles into account.
But, there's also a fashion to protest after the winner is announced. And go to court with it. Courts in Poland are veeeeeeeeeeeeery slow. The simplest cases take months. The government has very limited influence - they can only reason with the judges to speed it up - the courts are independent, about the date of the trial too. Anyway, even if the protest will be processed by the courts at the fastest pace, we'll have a few months delay.
Then there's time do design the thing. And make the final environmental-impact-study. And with these papers - get the "approval of a road project" from the regional (IIRC) authorities (not the road authority). This decision may also be protested against, with another possible court case...
Meanwhile, the archeologists will dig the ground. I think they are doing that already, so they may even finish before the construction starts - maybe that won't be a problem.
The same about acquiring the land - it is mostly done already. Lately the road authority was proud to announce that they reached an agreement with one of the landowners near Warsaw, who was blocking the official decisions by appealing them to the court. The decisions (for example, environmental decision) corncerning ~70 km of a motorway, he only occupies ~100m of it - yet he has right to block it all... Anyway, he won't do that anymore. Let's hope noone else tries to...
Then there's time to build. It may also get delayed. Lately built roads are 50/50 about being completed on time. There are conctracts completed according to schedule, but there are also such embarrasing cases as A4 to Zgorzelec. And in fact it's only a good will of the builder to complete on time. The road authorities rarely even try to harm the builders with the penalties...

So, here you go, a word from a pessimist. :lol:

The tender specification gives 32 months from the moment the contract is signed to complete the road. It also says road must be open (even if temporarily) for the EURO championships. If the contract is signed in September - it means the deadline is 04/2012. If it is signed 12/2009 - the deadline is 07/2012, then they'll have to open the road in June even if the crashbarriers won't be installed. :lol:

So let's hope for now, that all 6 contracts will be signed in September.:master:


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## snipe65

Thank You bebe.2006 !!!


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## Verso

msz2 said:


> S-7 form Kielce to Skarzysko (earth works):


OMG, this is like Trans-Texas Corridor again.


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## Majestic

^^ You think this looks massive? Check this:* (S6 Słupsk bypass)* 



as drogowy said:


> Hir aj goł egen jak mawiają starożytni Bułgarzy, z fotorelacją mojego odcinka obwodnicy (proszę wytrwać do końca, gdyż albowiem momenty będą):
> 
> Zaczynamy od strony Głobina. W miejscu gdzie poprzednio stał biały dźwig dzisiaj możemy zaobserwować, że trwają prace nad palowaniem. Oj, trzeba będzie zajrzeć do dokumentacji, co to za cudo imienia Azji Tuhajbejowicza tam powstaje.
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> Wjazd na MOP - postępy symboliczne:
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> Trochę ziemi jeszcze do przewiezienia zostało:
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> Uwaga! Ktoś się kryje za drzewami:
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> Poważna sprawa - kradną nam górę. I to w biały dzień:
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> (podpowiedź dla obcokrajowców: wbrew pozorom nie są to górnicy, chociaż zajmują się górą)
> 
> Krótki test, który pokaże, czy jest w was jeszcze dziecko - macie ochotę udać się na te zwały żółtego piasku z wiaderkiem i łopatką?
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> Czas stanął w miejscu, czyli wiadukt nad Arciszewskiego:
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> A tam co się dzieje?
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> Ale nie tutaj, walec to żadna atrakcja:
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> O kurcze, most gotowy (no, prawie):
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> Wiosna idzie, czas rower wyciągnąć. A to oznaczać może tylko jedno - rozszerzenie teatru działań! Soł, stej tjund!


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## ChrisZwolle

I sometimes don't understand why they cut so much woods, I saw a similar path of destruction of 60 meters wide for a simple 7 meter wide road in NL too.


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## Majestic

It makes me wonder too. The woods they are cutting through there are very beautiful ones. I used to take walks there when I was younger.


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## Verso

Second NAFTA Highway, man.


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## Timon91

ChrisZwolle said:


> I sometimes don't understand why they cut so much woods, I saw a similar path of destruction of 60 meters wide for a simple 7 meter wide road in NL too.


Safety is the only reason I can think of. Still it looks kinda pointless.


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## geogregor

Timon91 said:


> Safety is the only reason I can think of. Still it looks kinda pointless.


Aren't they building roads for farm equipment alongside the main exspressway?
Then you have to add space for fencing, drainage etc.


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## PLH

One's for sure - there are special regulation, they're not cutting out the woods just for the sake of cutting.

Drainage, fence, technical and collective roads - all this needs place.


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## mati162c

tender for s2 - Konotopa - Lotnisko announced!!!:cheers:
another good news for warsaw...


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## kaczkoss

*UWAGA !!!*

Sorry ,że trochę nie na temat ,ale wpadłem a taki pomysł żebyśmy złożyli się na symboliczną odbudowę malutkiego fragmentu jezdni północnej na niedokończonej autostradzie za węzłem rzęśnica. Ile was na to idzie???Szukam osób które są za tym wariantem trasy. Roześlijcie to dalej jak możecie.


Sorry, That a bit not about, but I have run have been lodged on such idea on symbolic reconstruction of tiny fragment on unfinished highway after interchange rzesnica -autobahn A6 - northern roadway (VERY TINY). Goes how many you on it? I search persons be behind this variant of route which (who). ) ) ) You let's send it if you can. )


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## kaczkoss

mój nr tel. 515-283-635


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## Majestic

^^ You can't be serious :lol:


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## Euroboyy

kaczkoss said:


> Sorry, That a bit not about, but I have run have been lodged on such idea on symbolic reconstruction of tiny fragment on unfinished highway after interchange rzesnica -autobahn A6 - northern roadway (VERY TINY). Goes how many you on it? I search persons be behind this variant of route which (who). ) ) ) You let's send it if you can. )


^^WTF!!?? hno:


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## PLH

Nevertheless....

*A6/S3 Szczecin Interchange*



Delushi said:


> Zamieszczam troche fotek z Klucza, daty jak widać.
> 
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> Widok na autostrade A6 w kier. Szczecina, z lewej przygotowania do betonowania przyczółka P4 na WD-1C.
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> J.W
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> WD-1D.
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> I lecimy wg. wskazówek zegara,widok na WD-1B a w tle kier. Gorzów.
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> Widok na A6 kier. Kołbaskowo, wjazd na S3.
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> Zoom na A6. W prawym górnym rogu widać wiatraki po niemieckiej stronie.
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> Zoom na wiatraki.
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> Lekko w dół,WD-1A w okazałości. Płyta przejsciowa na P1 zaizolowana,
> niedługo będzie wjazd z zaopatrzeniem na obiekt. Jutro tj. 30.03.2009
> mały Żuraw wieżowy "zwija się".
> 
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> Zoom na Szcecin, widac jupitery na stadione Pogoni.
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> A tu widać Wały Chrobrego, Teatr Współczesny, AM.


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## ChrisZwolle

Hey guys, what's the opening date of the A4 Jedrzychowice - Krzyzowa? I want to visit it when it's opened in a 3-day weekend


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## Mateusz

Erm... July, August ?


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## PLH

But you still can go there to take some pics


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## Wallaroo

Dantiscum said:


> ^^ this is the new official painting design in the EU. All member states have to introduce this system in all new police vehicles. Even the good old green "forest man" german police cars will soon disapear and will be replaced by the silver-blue ones.


Ive nerver heard anything about that, and I find the idea ridicoulus. It would be a shame if Italian police (whos got a god taste in their design of police vehicles) would have to change to EU standard colors...:bash:


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## Matz32Z

Youtube search 

8 March 2009




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QoPqQKmS0o

Old sings



michasa120 said:


> ponieważ na samym węźle za dużo się nie zmieniło, skoncentrowałem sie na oznakowaniu (29.03) :
> 
> od strony Wrocławia:
> 
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> 
> 
> jak już wcześniej wspomniałem, na węźle cisza:
> 
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> od strony Olszyny:
> znak ok 1,5-2km przed węzłem:
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> przy stacji benzynowej:
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> 
> taką oto folia pozakrywali niepoprawne oznakowanie:


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## msz2

Timon91 said:


> Safety is the only reason I can think of. Still it looks kinda pointless.


Please man, landscape and enviroment are much more changed and destroy in Nedrelands then in Poland. When we design and construct new road a lot of effort is put to protect enviromenrt and people. So when they cut these amount of trees it means that it's nessesery.


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## Mateusz

Yes, our network is constructed with newest standards and so on

Dutch network was finished ages ago in different times...


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## Chris80678

When are the signs on the A4 coming from Wrocław heading for the A18 and Krzyżowa interchange as well as the signs on the A4 coming from Zgorzelec to turn off onto the A18 or the A4 going to be changed to read A18 E36 Berlin (to replace Olszyna PL D) and A4 E40 Drzeżno 
(to replace Zgorzelec and Jędrychowice PL D) :banana: ? 
It is supposed to be done in the spring - it is spring now and all of the signs really should be altered before the motorway opens in July/August :nuts: otherwise there will be no end of confusion with signs of different sizes (like on the overhead gantries) and destinations :nuts:


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## Mateusz

Drezno  as for Dresden


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## bebe.2006

Interesting pictures by Sobolek88. Future motorway A1 near Torun with the bridge over Wisla (something about 10 km). The road was been built 11 years ago in a half profile. Till today it is signed S10. After upgreding to dual carriageway road (starting right now) it will be a part of A1:




Sobolek88 said:


> Witam
> MA 138 on river Drwęca (Nowa Wieś) and MA 145 on river Wisła (Grabowiec-Czerniewice). Bob The Constructor is Bilfinger Berger Polska SA.
> 
> 
> 1. MA 145 (Grabowiec):
> 
> Map:
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> Old and new mark post:
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> Viaduct over road 654:
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> Direction Łodzi/Czeriewice:
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> We came to MA138 :
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> Direction Gdańska/węzła Lubicz:
> 
> Direction Łodzi /Czerniewic:
> 
> 
> *Construction 11 years ago:*
> 
> 
> Pozdrawiam


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## PLH

Biddings announced yesterday(not today):

A1 Toruń - Łódź(half of the section) - 64 km
A2 Łódź - Warsaw - 90,9 km
S2 Warsaw - 10,4 km
S5 Poznań - 23,6 km
S8 east of Warsaw - 11,1 km
S69 near Bielsko Biała - 15,3 km

*Total: 215,3 km*


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## ChrisZwolle

> S2 Warsaw - 10,4 km


That will be THE major transit route in Warsaw, right?


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## PLH

Yes, together with the S8.


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## ufonut

Chris will appreciate this. 

Courtesy of CodeLukas.

*All announced tenders in the first quarter of 2009. Everything seems to be on schedule. Quota was fulfilled  Not a single postponement or delay.*

Legend:

Entries with strike through - tenders announced Q1 2009 (total 351.8 km)










2010 is shaping up to be a great year. Note that not all possible tenders are included in 2010, 2011 or 2012 so the list is bound to grow.


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## mati162c

del


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## mati162c

PLH said:


> Yes, together with the S8.


and also s17 somewhere in the future...


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## PLH

But it won't be as impotrant as S8 and S2.


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## mati162c

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=34506364&postcount=3205

as you can see A2 - Strykow - Konotopa is doing quite well, and should be finished by the end of the year:rofl:


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## Majestic

Sweet :lol:

Are those pictures from S3 construction site?


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## PLH

Various sections (S3, A4, and other)


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## Chris80678

Does anybody have any pics of the S11 expressway from Poznań to Kórnik which opened last month? :banana: I know that the S11 bypass of Kórnik isn't opening until May hno: It's only a small stretch of expressway but it will give the villages between Poznań and Kórnik quicker access to the A2 motorway :cheers:
Also nobody has answered my question about when the signs on the 
A4 motorway between Wrocław and Krzyżowa interchange will be altered to have A18 E36 Berlin and A4 E40 Drzeżno on them :bash:


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## PLH

Chris80678 said:


> Does anybody have any pics of the S11 expressway from Poznań to Kórnik which opened last month?


Some pics are here, but not the newest ones:
http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=404394



Chris80678 said:


> Also nobody has answered my question about when the signs on the
> A4 motorway between Wrocław and Krzyżowa interchange will be altered to have A18 E36 Berlin and A4 E40 Drzeżno on them :bash:


We don't know that either. My emails weren't aswered yet.


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## Rusonaldo

Motorway A2 near Stryków (North Łódź)


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## Mateusz

GDDKiA needs to sort out the signage for motorways which have more than 2 lanes...


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## msz2

Very nice motorway>^^


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## Chris80678

I suspect that Stryków will be removed from the A2 motorway signs when it finally reaches Warsaw in 2010/2011 and the interchange with DK14 will just be signed for Łowicz and Łódż :banana:. Stryków is only signed now because it's where the A2 currently ends (and starts for those heading for Poznan) :nuts: and because the bypass goes around the town


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## PLH

Some shots from the A4:



Rusonaldo said:


> Kilka fotek z A-4


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## Mateusz

Ready to exploit !


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## PLH

:nono: Not yet


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## Timon91

Nice close-up from those 'thick markings'


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## Qwert

Timon91 said:


> Nice close-up from those 'thick markings'


But, the crashbarriers aren't shiny enough.


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## Verso

When were Polish crash barriers shiny?  Btw, our brainiacs put thick markings on the line between the driving and overtaking lane. :lol:


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## Mateusz

Polish Road Law changed 

Noyu can drive 140 km/h on motorways, 120 km/h on dual carriageway expressway and 110 km/h on single carriageway expressway !

:cheers:


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## Qwert

Mateusz said:


> Polish Road Law changed
> 
> Noyu can drive 140 km/h on motorways, 120 km/h on dual carriageway expressway and 110 km/h on single carriageway expressway !
> 
> :cheers:


That means average Pole will drive 160 on motorways, 130 - 140 on expressways and 120 on single carriageway expressway.


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## ethernal

Qwert said:


> That means average Pole will drive 160 on motorways, 130 - 140 on expressways and 120 on single carriageway expressway.


Youe`re right!!:lol:
And I must add that polish germans will suitably drive 240, 220, 210 km/h, maybe not everybody (it could harm sb.) but most of them hno:


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## Dantiscum

so what. It's their problem and maybe the problem of their relations with the police. 
And I really doubt, if those who drive 200 km/h by now, will increase their speed even more because of this change in the law.
And i'm happy to have the possibility to drive safely and legally 140 km/h.


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## ethernal

Dantiscum said:


> so what. It's their problem and maybe the problem of their relations with the police.


Sorry, but I can not agree with You my friend. There is not only their problem. I very often drive on A4 from Śląsk (Silesia) to west part of Poland by A4 and what people with german plates do it`s terrible!!! Let`s me explain: I`ve been overtaking a track (my speed 130-140km/h) and suddently I`ve seen german plates car just behind me (less than half meter behand), he has been sounding the horn flashing the lights incessantly!!! Next He has missed me and I have seen behind me and him that Truck Has been overtaking another truck... what has our superb driver done??? He has overtaken both ... on right... I mean shoulder....:bash: 
This is not isolated accident, they drive as I written above... 80-90% of them

When Police stop their they always excuse that in Germany driving 200km/h or more is permitted... chicken bustards...
Sorry, I`ve got carry away..



And I really doubt said:


> Ok, here you`re right.


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## ChrisZwolle

Wow American single carriageway speed limits in Europe!


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## Sponsor

Mateusz said:


> Polish Road Law changed
> Noyu can drive 140 km/h on motorways, 120 km/h on dual carriageway expressway and 110 km/h on single carriageway expressway !


Where did you get this info from?


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## ChrisZwolle

Source with Google Translate


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## Sponsor

del


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## Mateusz

Sponsor said:


> Where did you get this info from?


Thread about road traffic safety on FPW 

Anyway, most of new regulations will be in operations 01.05.2009


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## Sponsor

del


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## Fuzzy Llama

Whoa, whoa hold your horses. The bill must be signed by the President first, then it must be published in the journal of laws. Only then the sweet, nearly sub-light speed will be allowed


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## E2rdEm

Mateusz said:


> Anyway, most of new regulations will be in operations 01.05.2009


No, 01.05.2010. (^^ Even if the bill is really published this month, it will be effective next year). So don't hold your breath.

:gossip: And in fact it raises the limits even 10 km/h more. Because there is no fine for <10 km/h over limit...


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## Majestic

E2rdEm said:


> :gossip: And in fact it raises the limits even 10 km/h more. Because there is no fine for <10 km/h over limit...


There never was.


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## PLH

Easy, easy, it won't be before long, I don't know where you get these dates from.

QWhat's more, it wont change anything, cause now you'll not get fined for doing +15, in the future you'll allegedly be.


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## msz2

PLH said:


> Some shots from the A4:


I love it.:cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

The opening of the A4 is very good news for Dutchmen going to eastern Slovakia.

Via A4; 1340km
Via Czech D1: 1465km
Via Austrian A1: 1620km

(to Presov).


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## Timon91

You mean the A4 from Zgorzelec to Krzywowa? Over Berlin and Cottbus it's still shorter, unless you're from Limburg.


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## ChrisZwolle

True. I hope the next job in this region will be the upgrading of the DK18 to motorway standards all the way from the border to the existing A18.


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## Mateusz

Yep, certainly we have such plans and it is not in office kind of processing


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## mati162c

according to our ministry of finances?(i think that's the right translation)
the tender to upgrade DK 18 to A18 is to be announced in second quarter of 2009...


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## Matz32Z

A4 http://www.zgorzelec-krzyzowa.pl/gallery.aspx


Matz32Z said:


> No jest wklejam tu te fotki z http://www.zgorzelec-krzyzowa.pl/gallery.aspx
> 
> *KONTRAKT A*
> 
> MOP południowy
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> MOP północny
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> Obiekt WD 10
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> Obiekt WD 11
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> Obiekt WD 13
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> Odcinek A4 pomiędzy MOP-ami
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> Rob. przyg. pod materac gabionowy w km 15+050-15+150 P
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> Umacnianie skarp w km 15+050-15+150 P
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> Widok na skarpy gł. wykopu
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> *
> KONTRAKT B*
> 
> Pomiar powykonawczy na MOP Czerna S metodą GPS
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> Pomiar powykonawczy na węźle Bolesławiec
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> Dolina Kwisy, MA 31, WD 30, PZ 52, km 32+400 E-W
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> Przejście dla płazów km 43+300 N-S
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> Przejście dla płazów km 43+400 E-W
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> Przejście dla płazów km 34+200 W-E
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> Przejscie dla płazów km 43+800 W-E
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> Ekran dla ważek km 33+400 W-E
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> Ekran dla ważek km 33+500 E-W
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> Ekran na przejściu dla zwierząt PZ 40
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> Krzewy na przejściu dla zwierzat PZ 52
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> Montaż barier energochłonnych w pasie rozdziału km 31+000 E-W
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> Prace brukarskie przy wiadukcie WD 30
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> Prace porządkowe w pasie rozdziału km 31+300 E-W


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## ChrisZwolle

S5 construction near Bydgoszcz, a large, but unknown city between Poznan and Gdansk.



Michał Ch.;34566196 said:


> Fotorelacja odc. S5/10 z dzisiaj
> 
> Zaczynamy od strony Pawłówka/Piły/Szczecina
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> Mapka nr 1
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> 38. Jedziemy do Białych Błót, ale już bez mapki bo się powtarzają
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> Kierowca dawał rade
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> :bowtie:


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## ufonut

"Ekran dla ważek" - is this for real ? What kind of law requires a screen for dragonflies ? We have hit a serious level of absurdity.


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## ufonut

A4 Krakow-Szarow



















Highway entrance in Krakow - direction Tarnow (through Szarow)


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## ChrisZwolle

> Ekran


Funny, I French it's Écran (screen). See, Polish does have a lot of recognizable words


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## Sponsor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Funny, I French it's Écran (screen). See, Polish does have a lot of recognizable words


in polish it's also screen


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## Mateusz

It's because people started to use it...

It's bit like in German where they use loads of English words these days


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## Chris80678

The A4 from Kraków to Szarów is coming along nicely :banana: 
I especially like the look of the Szarów interchange. It would be great if it was finished and opened by September 2009 because then the A4 would be the longest motorway in use in Poland :cheers: and the work to extend the 
A4 to Tarnów can begin in earnest


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## Mateusz

It was meant to be opened 04/2009


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## Sponsor

Chris80678 said:


> The A4 from Kraków to Szarów is coming along nicely :banana:
> I especially like the look of the Szarów interchange. It would be great if it was finished and opened by September 2009 because then the A4 would be the longest motorway in use in Poland :cheers:


it's already the longest one (over 340 km + 70 km to be opened this year), A2 is second with 250 km being operated.


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## Elvenking

Unfortunately A1 is far from completion, and it's very important road for Poland. A2 and A4 are transit roads through Poland, A1 is importand from Polish perspective


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Which part of the A1 will be the last to be completed? Torun - Lodz? Or Pyrzowice - Gliwice?


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## Mateusz

Częstochowa-Pyrzowice is destinated for 2013/2014 I think.


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## mati162c

yes, they have 60 months to build it starting from 01/2009, but they might be also some problems with kowal - stryków - the southern part of Toruń - Łódź, but if everything will be OK, częstochowa - pyrzowice should be the last one


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## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> Wow American single carriageway speed limits in Europe!


110 km/h? They already have that in Hungary and Croatia, f.e.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Source with Google Translate


Lol, Hungarian M1/M7 on the pic.


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## PLH

On 1x2 expressways 100 won't be changed to 110 km/h


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## Qwert

ChrisZwolle said:


> The opening of the A4 is very good news for Dutchmen going to eastern Slovakia.
> 
> Via A4; 1340km
> Via Czech D1: 1465km
> Via Austrian A1: 1620km
> 
> (to Presov).


Problem is there is no proper connection between Prešov and Polish A4.


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## ChrisZwolle

S7 to Rabka! And then local roads...


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## Sponsor

PLH said:


> On 1x2 expressways 100 won't be changed to 110 km/h


hmm?


> Nawet 140 km/h będzie można jechać autostradą. W przypadku drogi ekspresowej dwujezdniowej - 120 km/h, a na *drodze ekspresowej jednojezdniowej - 110 km/h.*


source: Gazeta Prawna


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## PLH

When so, then OK, but I suppose that someone simply heard +10 on A and S and just added these.

Most likely is that it will be only on 2x2 ones.


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## Qwert

ChrisZwolle said:


> S7 to Rabka! And then local roads...


And then local roads...in National Park. But, unfortunately this seems to be the best option. Especially when D1 feeder Poprad - Kežmarok, which will be actually an expressway, will be finished.


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## Mateusz

S7 will probably end in Rabka...

I hope it will be extended to Slovakian border too ! Even though there is no huge traffic


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## msz2

ChrisZwolle said:


> S7 to Rabka! And then local roads...


Are you going to make a movie during this trip?


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## ufonut

Most up to date stats compiled by bebe.2006 (English translation by me)



bebe.2006 said:


> *Zestawienie bieżących przetargów (1018,1 km):*
> 
> - patrz post 1928
> 
> __________________________________________________________________
> 
> Podsumowanie. Drogi klas A i S: - summary of highways A and S type
> 
> Istniejące: 1347 km - existing 1347 km
> 
> W budowie: 477 km - razem 1824 km - under construction 477km, together - 1824km
> 
> 
> W przetargach: 1018 km - razem 2842 km - currently pending tenders -1018km, together 2842km
> 
> Planowane nastepne przetargi w 2009: 809 km - razem 3651 km - planned tenders in 2009 - 809km, together 3651km
> 
> Planowane przetargi w 2010: 1548 km - razem _5199 km_ - planned tenders in 2010 - 1548km, together 5199km


Poland is becoming a highway powerhouse !


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## ufonut

A1 Belk - Sosnica










Future Toll collection point










More photos here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=542716&page=151



Krakow-Szarow










More photos here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=126655&page=106


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## Mateusz

I would say more likely expressway powerhouse


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## karejeeta

Polish: Coraz bliżej przebudowy Trasy Toruńskiej na odcinku od Modlińskiej do ul. Piłsudskiego w Markach - informuje dziennik "Polska". Jeszcze w tym tygodniu Generalna Dyrekcja Dróg Krajowych i Autostrad wyśle zaproszenia do firm, które mogłyby dostosować ten odcinek trasy do parametrów drogi ekspresowej S8.
- Mamy nadzieję, że w końcu uda się ruszyć z tą inwestycją – mówi dziennikarzowi "Polski" Małgorzata Tarnowska, rzecznik warszawskiego oddziału GDDKiA. - Na ogłoszenie tego przetargu czekaliśmy od początku roku. Z powodu problemów z zebraniem dokumentacji rozprawa administracyjna poprzedzająca wydanie pozwolenia na budowę odbyła się dopiero pod koniec marca – dodaje.
Remont Trasy Toruńskiej zacznie się w tym roku

Na Trasie Toruńskiej powstanie sześć dużych węzłów: Modlińska, Marywilska, Łabiszyńska, Nowo-Wincentego, Ikea i Piłsudskiego. Kierowcy zyskają też lepszy zjazd z trasy na osiedla Tarchomin i do marketu Auchan. Skorzystają też mieszkańcy Zielonej Białołęki (osiedli Derby i Skarbka z Gór), którzy dojadą do trasy poszerzoną do dwóch pasów ul. Głębocką. Dziś stoją tam w gigantycznych korkach.

Prace mają się rozpocząć latem, a zakończyć w 2011 r. 

English: Closer and closer to rebuilding trails Toruńska over a distance of MODLIŃSKI to UL. Piłsudskiego in Marki - log inform "Poland." Later this week, General Directorate for National Roads and Highways will send an invitation to companies, which could adjust the parameters of cross-section of the road express S8. 
- We hope that in the end able to move with that investment - says journalist "polish" Małgorzata Tarnowska, the Warsaw branch GDDKiA spokesman. - On the announcement of the tender waited since the beginning of the year. Due to problems with gathering documentation administrative hearing prior to issuing a building permit was held only at the end of March - he adds. 
Repair trails Toruńska starts this year 

On the route of Toruńska rise to six major hubs: Modlińska, Marywilska, Łabiszyńska, newly-Vincent, Ikea and Pilsudski. Drivers will benefit from a better exit route to the settlements and to Tarchomin marketu Auchan. Will benefit the residents of Green Białołęki (Derby and Skarbka settlements of Mountains), which reach to the route expanded to two lanes ul. Głębock. Today, there are giant congestion. 

The works are scheduled to begin in summer and completed in 2011 
Souce: www.tvnwarszawa.pl and translate.google.com


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## Majestic

^^ That's this section here:



This section could certainly use some widening. It currently carries about 80,00 daily on a 2 lanes dual carriageway. Also the interchanges are outdated and have flawed geometry which also causes congestion.


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## E2rdEm

Nice driving videos from the S8 Wyszków-Radzymin by karol8888888.
That's this part here:

http://maps.google.pl/maps?f=q&sour...0848,21.291504&spn=0.551084,1.032715&t=h&z=10



karol8888888 said:


> Witam tak jak obiecalem wrzucam filmiki z wczorajszego przejazdu na odcinku Wyszków-Radzymin
> 
> 
> 1.Obwodnica Wyszkowa
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJP4JfK9Dys&translated=1
> 
> 
> 2.Odcinek Wyszków - Radzymin
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0yreeWSIiQ
> 
> 3.kawałek Obwodnicy Radzymina
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSmbcF42L2Y
> 
> dziekuje i życze milego ogladania


1. Wyszków bypass - new expressway opened 12/2008.
2. Wyszków (Lucynów) - Radzymin (Wola Rasztowska)
This part was rebuilt from DK8. Although traffic is allowed 2 lanes each direction, it's still U/C as you can see.
The local buses are allowed to go over this part, and at 3:15 and 4:18 you can see side-spurs where the bus stop is located.
3. Radzymin bypass bult in 1990's.


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## Micrav

S8 is super great but too short  It should go at least until Bialystok... and almost no petrol station on, while elsewhere, new ones are being built in the middle of nowhere...

By the way, in Warsaw ring (north-west), the big S is being rebuild with some bridges. What will be there, is it the future connection of A2? 

This ring is also a shame, why they don't complete the bridge that leads to Bialystok? This creates huge congestions to go to Targowek...


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## Jakub Warszauer

Micrav said:


> S8 is super great but too short  It should go at least until Bialystok... and almost no petrol station on, while elsewhere, new ones are being built in the middle of nowhere...
> 
> By the way, in Warsaw ring (north-west), the big S is being rebuild with some bridges. What will be there, is it the future connection of A2?
> 
> This ring is also a shame, why they don't complete the bridge that leads to Bialystok? This creates huge congestions to go to Targowek...


The norht-western part of Warsaw bypass is under construction. It is a completly new stretch. It will connect the city with A2 motorway.

The "bridge leading do Białystok"... I undersand, you mean the one on Road Number 8, future Expressway S-8. Currently it has 2x4 lanes... There is a proposal, to update it to 2x5, but nothing will start before construction of the Northern Bridge, which will ease traffic congestion in norther part of metropolitan area.


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## Chris80678

Micrav said:


> S8 is super great but too short  It should go at least until Bialystok... and almost no petrol station on, while elsewhere, new ones are being built in the middle of nowhere...
> 
> By the way, in Warsaw ring (north-west), the big S is being rebuild with some bridges. What will be there, is it the future connection of A2?
> 
> This ring is also a shame, why they don't complete the bridge that leads to Bialystok? This creates huge congestions to go to Targowek...


I agree - the S8 should be extended from the end of the Wyszków bypass 
(or start of it if you're coming from Bialystok) right to Bialystok itself with a badly needed bypass for Zambrów put in too (Ostrów Mazowiecki has a bypass so should Zambrów; as it does stand at an important crossroads and suffers from heavy traffic). Perhaps when the E67 upgrade between Radzymin and Wyszków is complete than thoughts will turn towards upgrading the E67 between Wyszków and Bialystok to the S8 expressway? 
There would virtually be no interchanges between Wyszków and Ostrów Mazowiecki so it could be a straight run between the two towns as there are no major or minor routes coming off or going onto the E67 at this point.
When is the upgrade of the E67 between Radzymin and Wyszków supposed to be finished anyway?


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## mati162c

june i think, but i'm not sure
trust me, they're doing quite well with s8 - jeżewo - choroszcz(near bialystok) design & build tender, zambrów bypass - tender, but wyszków - ostrów part is not that close to be started...
Marki bypass is closer...


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## Chris80678

But this section of the E67 between Jeżewo and Choroszcz (near Bialystok) is super short :nuts: - but that's Poland for you major routes can only be upgraded a bit at a time instead of doing the logical thing and upgrading the whole road from Zambrów to Bialystok. It would be great though if Zambrów bypass could be built sooner rather than later as its only a small town and the bypass doesn't need to be that long plus it only needs one interchange building. I know that there is an economic crisis on and that Poland is short of money for building roads but the E67 is a major link between Warsaw and Vilnius/Tallinn and needs urgent upgrading hno:.
Also where will the Marki bypass start - will it form part of Warsaw's eastern ring road stretching from Marki to the E30/Trasa Skierkowska 
(internal southern ring road) interchange at Ostrobramka? :banana:


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## Mateusz

Near Marki ? S8  It is now in some office processings.

I have no idea about Eastern Bypass (S17)


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## mati162c

Marki bypass already has DŚU - this ecological decision, or whatever - and wyszkow - zambrów has only STEŚII i think, so marki bypass should be sooner...
but there is a big problem because marki bypass ends on S8/S17 interchange, with eastern warsaw bypass, and the route from the end of powązkowska marki to marki bypass is to be done with eastern bypass which is optimisticly to be done in 2015, so there might be a problem, because to drive from S8 in warsaw to marki bypass u will have to drive through 1,5 lanes road in the middle of marki...


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## H123Laci

Hey, Chris!

Its time to split the thread, its far over 1000 posts... :lol:


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## ChrisZwolle

Wow, 1300 posts in the two days I went away. How did that happened?


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## PLH

We're prolific.


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## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


> Wow, 1300 posts in the two days I went away. How did that happened?


no, it was splitted already: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=441854&page=51

somebody (re)merged it... :nuts:


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## ChrisZwolle

H123Laci said:


> somebody (re)merged it... :nuts:


Yes, me. Splitting wasn't necessary anymore according to Jan, because the server stress is gone with recent upgrades.


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## Mateusz

Lol is does SSC have like own HQ or something ? :nuts:


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## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yes, me. Splitting wasn't necessary anymore according to Jan, because the server stress is gone with recent upgrades.


oops... really... all splittings are merged... :lol:


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## ChrisZwolle

Mateusz said:


> Lol is does SSC have like own HQ or something ? :nuts:


Yes, located in Dubai.


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## mati162c

Burj Dubai?!:lol:


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## Timon91

Penthouse. I never knew it was in Dubai. I wonder why it would be there, Jan lives in Chicago


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## Mateusz

I like this picture

It's from S3


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## PLH

Flighting seson stared  - A1 Gliwice:



marian68 said:


> Bełk
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> I kilka obiektów w zbliżeniu:
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> WA 465


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## SeanT

Pictures (like these)are always interresting from above...
^^:banana:


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## karejeeta

Will the whole part of the S8 part of the Warsaw Ringroad be open for the Euro cup?? Anyone have a map of this? and what section of the S2 and S79 be open for the games?


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## Majestic

^^ Yes, S8 Konotopa - Prymasa Tysiąclecia will be 100% completed in 2011. S2 is currently undergoing a tender so if everything goes as planned, the section Konotopa - Puławska will be ready for 2012. As for 79 I don't know if there are any plans of completing it before Euro.


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## PLH

karejeeta said:


> Anyone have a map of this?


----------



## RipleyLV

S8 - Ostrów Mazowiecka. (2008)
Warsaw direction.









Białystok direction.









Crash in Sokołów Podlaski. 14.08.2008.


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## Chris80678

I thought that the completion date for the S8 Konotopa - 
Prymasa Tysiąclecia was 12/2010 not 2011?
Even if the S2 from Konotopa to Puławska is completed in time for Euro 2012 traffic will have to turn of the S2 Puławska and still go through the centre of Warsaw to get to the stadium in Praga. Only the western suburbs of 
Pruszków, Ursus and Okęcie will be bypassed by the traffic coming off the A2 at Konotopa.
The pictures of the A1 are great, it will be interesting to see what final destination is signed for the southbound A1 from Gliwice (Sośnica) to the Czech border - will it be A1 Gorzyce CZ PL or A1 Ostrava CZ 
(as it should be)?


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## Mateusz

Hopefully there will be Ostrava (CZ)

Instead of

Gorzyczki (PL)(CZ)


----------



## Piotrek_409

It's quite difficult to predict which parts of the Warsaw expressway system will be finished but I guess that the easiest way for foreigners (but maybe little bit long) to get to Stadium from West and South during Euro 2012 will be rather to bypass Warsaw using S8 rather than going through the centre or part of s2











note: the road near the river (called 'Wislostrada) formally doesn't have express road status, however on this part is mostly collison free (commie quasi express way style road)


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## Chris80678

We'll see when Sośnica interchange is finished in October of this year :banana:, you can be sure that the northbound A1 will be signed as 
A1 Łódż (as it should be), we managed to campaign to get rid of 
Olszyna PL D and Jędrychowice PL D from the signs on the westbound A4 
at Krzyżowa interchange (whether the signs have actually been changed is another matter due to a lack of photos for March on the A4 motorway website on Wikipedia) so we should be able to campaign for A1 Ostrava CZ :cheers:


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## Mateusz

There is also Wisłostrada in other part of Poland, and it's local 2X2 road  DW871 ??


----------



## PLH

*A8 Wrocław*



625 said:


> Budowa AOW
> 
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> 
> Rędzin


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## ufonut

A4 Zgorzelec-Krzyzowa (foto not current but nice anyway)


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## Mateusz

Important route 

A final piece to connect Southern Poland with Western Europe


----------



## RipleyLV

I like how the Poles build those bridges for animals.


----------



## PLH

Delays in opening of this stretch are also due to these overpasses, but if it will serve for years we can wait a couple of moths.


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## Mateusz

And screens for some flies....


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## ufonut

Bridges for animals are needed 

Found at S10 construction site










Found at A1 construction site


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## Mateusz

I hope this road was rehabilited


----------



## PLH

What is that? Is it the end of Gierkówka near Ustroń?


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## Mateusz

No, it's Wisłostrada near Tarnobrzeg


----------



## Chris80678

Mateusz said:


> No, it's Wisłostrada near Tarnobrzeg


This road is in a terrible condition considering that its the main route between Tarnobrzeg and the E40/future A4 motorway near Rzeszów, perhaps it will be resurfaced when the A4 motorway is extended from Tarnów to Rzeszów
after 2010 as it will have a junction with this road


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## Mateusz

Not really, it's a local road leading from Tarnobrzeg to National Road 9 / E371 along the Vistula.

Why this road is 2x2 ? During commie times Mercury Works in this area were very prosperous and traffic there was simpy massive


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## Alle

ufonut said:


> Bridges for animals are needed
> 
> Found at S10 construction site
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Found at A1 construction site


Indeed, more ecoducts :banana: .




I saw here  that a motorway from Katowice to Warsawa is outlined, how is the progress of this?


----------



## PLH

^^ If you feel like exploring big polish cities like in GoogleEarth, visit:

http://www.pkt.pl/map.html;jsessionid=1AEB93595F357E32A27C1AA038CAD05B


----------



## Mateusz

American style freeway 

S7 near Grójec


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## Xofik

I don't uderstand! Why it's american style freeway?


----------



## Qwert

kotunia said:


> Bielsko Biała bypass - southern Poland


Is that bypass part of S69?


----------



## Sponsor

Qwert said:


> Is that bypass part of S69?


No but S69 passing BB is currently being built.


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## H123Laci

Xofik said:


> I don't uderstand! Why it's american style freeway?


maybe because of the wide median...


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## Miguel_PL

Mateusz said:


> I hope this road was rehabilited


This road has already been renovated


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## Mateusz

H123Laci said:


> maybe because of the wide median...


Yeah, those exotic looking trees


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## msz2

S-7 Kielce Skarzysko:


----------



## michal_OMB

*A4 Zgorzelec - Krzyzowa*



kZo said:


> kilka uruchomionych ZZT


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## bebe.2006

1998 Motorway A1: bridge across river Vistula near town Torun, part one U/C:


radix77 said:


>


2009 construction of part two starts. A trip inside the bridge:


radix77 said:


> Rozpoczeły sie prace przy budowie drugej nitki mostu autostradowego w Toruniu i myslę sobie że to dobre miejsce by zobaczyć coś więcej czego raczej nie bedzie dane ujrzeć wiekszości na własne oczy - istniejącą konstrukcję od środka - tym bardziej że sąsiednia nitka będzie wykonywana w takiej samej technologii jak ta poniżej na zdjęciach.
> 
> Zaczynamy więc fotorelację :
> 
> *Schodzimy po płytach o w tym miejscu:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> *I ukazuje sie nam taki oto widok:
> *
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> *Jak widać żuraw już się pręży dumnie, ale my obracamy się o 90st w prawo i "Sezamie otwórz się" *
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> *Wchodzimy do środka i po drugiej stronie drzwi wyglądają tak:*
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> *
> Całości pilnuje ten oto Cerber :lol: (uzbrajany wydaje dźwięk jak alarm w samochodach) *
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> *Po wejściu dalej ukazuje sie nam początek długiej ale niekoniecznie prostej (ale o tym za chwilę) skrzynki betonowej zakończony w tym miejscu takim oto portalem wejściowym. Kolektor zbiorczy kończy się w tym właśnie miejscu i dalej poprzez piaskownik i separator odprowadzany jest do strugi płynącej wzdłuż Wisły *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Obracamy się o 180st i taki oto mamy widok w dal:
> Jak widać kolektor zbiorczy w swym końcowym odcinku jest dość pokaźnych rozmiarów ale im bardziej ku srodkowi mostu tym przekrój robi sie mniejszy co będzie widać na kolejnych fotkach. W tym końcowym odcinku - bliżej przyczółków kolektor posadowiony jest prawie na środku przekroju komory skrzyni żelbetowej na stalowych podporach. *
> 
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> *Po pewnym czasie idąc ku środkowi mostu kolektor zbiorczy przeniesiony został pod ścianę *
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> *cdn...*





radix77 said:


> *Wspominałem na początku że skrzynka nie do końca jest prosta - oto dowód:
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *a tutaj ten sam odcinek widziany z dołu tej pochylni *
> 
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> *a taki widok mamy za tym wąskim przejściem*
> 
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> 
> *w miejscach wątpliwych lub charakterystycznych zostały zamontowane takie oto czujniki zegarowe zębate:*
> 
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> 
> *o a to ich opakowania:*
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> *jeszcze rzut okiem znad rury zbiorczej:*
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> *i doszliśmy do środka mostu. tutaj też kilka sztuk czujek zegarowych i na suficie pręt do mierzenia ugięcia *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *tak jak wspomniałem na środku przekrój rur zbiorczych do odprowadzenia deszczówki jest o wiele mniejszy i każda nitka jest niezależna - jedna biegnie w prawo , druga w lewo*
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> *temperatura dzisiaj w środku mostu wynosiła 13,5st C*
> 
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> 
> *Było trochę pająków więc dla arachnofobików i klaustrofobików nie polecamy takich wycieczek* :lol:


----------



## kowal84

Miguel_PL said:


> This road has already been renovated


This is a wisłostrada -Tarnobrzeg have ben renovated 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpeapNoBL5g


----------



## Chris80678

When is the second carriageway of the bridge carrying the future A1 motorway (current S10) over the Wisła near Toruń going to be finished and ready for use? When will the S10 between the northern end near Grębocin and the interchange with the E75 at Czerniewice be fully upgraded to form part of the A1 motorway? I know that the upgrading is U/C now :banana:


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## bebe.2006

^^ 2011

-----------------


A8 near Wrolaw U/C:



Rafis said:


> *24.04.2009.*
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> 
> For more pics:
> http://www.obwodnica-wroclawia.pl/postep.html





kooba said:


> Boba Fett here?


----------



## msz2

*S-7*

S-7 Kielce North Interchange:


----------



## Chris80678

According to Wikipedia, in 2010 all of the traffic currently using the A18 between Olszyna and Golnice will be shifted onto the south (Wrocław) bound lane so that the north (Berlin) bound lane so that the can be demolished and rebuilt early next year so that the E36 can finally be resigned as A18 between Olszyna and Krzyzowa :banana: in 2012


----------



## pmaciej7

A1 near Grudziądz:




























More pictures: 1, 2, 3


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## Mateusz

Big traffic


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Lol, do you consider that busy? I consider that sunday traffic in rural Netherlands


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## Mateusz

Hey man, Poland is not Holland, we don't have that huge traffic here  Comparing to what A1 used to have, it is a lot more


----------



## Sponsor

It's not that busy though. Notice that pictures were zoomed which cuts perspective and makes it look busy. But as for toll road still good


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## msz2

S-7 near Kielce:


----------



## wholagun

^^ you guys should see Highway 401 between Detroit and Montreal, particularly near Toronto. At times traffic is bumper to bumper on 100km road.


----------



## bigalowski

yeah, I assume A1 used to be dead, so was A4 several years back. I drove from Krakow to Wroclaw on tuesday and between Krakow and Gliwice traffic was hectic. One big line of lorries!


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## volkhen

Construction site - Bydgoszcz bypass S5/S10.












Michał Ch.;35974484 said:


> Dobra, no to jedziemy z tym koksem
> 
> 
> 30.04.2009 S5/10
> 
> 
> 1. Jak zwykle dojeżdzamy do węzła Białe-Błota od strony Szczecina/Piły. Po prawej PG-12, w tle WD-10
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> 2. Tymczasowe "rondo" trochę się zmniejszyło
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> 3. Tymczasowe "rondo"
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> 5. Widok w stronę Poznania/Żnina, piachu trochę więcej niż ostatnio
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> 9. Jedziemy nową jezdnią, po lewej pozostałość po starej, a po prawej droga zbiorcza
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> 10. Zielonka, WD-7
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> 24. Zielonka, tam gdzie są betoniarki, jest PG-6
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> 25. Zielonka
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> 26. jw., po prawej za murem przyszła S5, my jedziemy drogą zbiorczą
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> 27.
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> 28. Po prawej ślad dawnej jezdni DK5/10
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> 29. WD-7
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> 30. W tle kościół w Cielu
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> 31. jw.
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> 32. PG-8
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> 34. Wyjazd z budowy
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> 40. WD-9
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> 41. WD-9
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> 42. WD-10
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> 43. WD-10
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> 44. Zjazd z tymczasowego "ronda", kierunek Bydgoszcz


----------



## Sponsor

*[S11]* *Poznań - Kórnik*



Rusonaldo said:


> To tyle


----------



## Chris80678

The S11 from Poznań to Kórnik looks great :cheers: can't wait for the opening of the S11 expressway bypass of Kórnik late next month :banana:
it's a shame that the expressway won't continue past Kórnik though to
Środa Wielkopolska for some time to come though :lol: but then it is only right that the construction of motorways should take priority over everything else


----------



## Mateusz

I wish more expressways would be motorways...

In fact, what would be the widest expressway or motorway in Poland ?

A4 in Silesia ? 2+3+3+2

S2 in Warsaw ? 2X4


----------



## Majestic

^^ A4 in Silesia has 3 through lanes each, those 2 is rather a sort of frontage road, those lanes cannot be classified as collector lanes imo. Grota-Roweckiego bridge in Warsaw is 2x4 but on a short section only. That would mean a poor 2x3 is the best we have.


----------



## mati162c

grota roweckiego bridge will be 2x5 with hard shoulders, but it's still a very short section, and a2 pruszków - konotopa - not tolled part, will have space for 2x4...


----------



## Mateusz

S2 tunnel part will be 2X4


----------



## mati162c

yes, and i think also a little parts near interchanges in konotopa - puławska part, but part from "Opacz" to "Konotopa" should be made in 2x4 cause it'll be 3 ver busy national roads in the biggest city in poland, 2x3 won't be enough i think...


----------



## Mateusz

However... don't overestimate our road authorities. I would keep limited optimism here. 

So what Gierkówka, will it be 2X3 when upgraded to motorway standard ?


----------



## PLH

Mateusz said:


> So what Gierkówka, will it be 2X3 when upgraded to motorway standard ?


No.


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## LMB

mati162c said:


> "Opacz" to "Konotopa" should be made in 2x4 cause it'll be 3 ver busy national roads in the biggest city in poland, 2x3 won't be enough i think...


Just for future reference, the biggest city is Katowice-Chorzów-etc. agglomeration. 

Stop the misinformation.


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## ChrisZwolle

Well, he's right that Warszawa is the biggest city. The biggest metropolitan area is indeed around Katowice.


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## mati162c

of course - warsaw is 1,6 mln, and whole gop is 2,6 mln, and even warsaw so called metropolitan area is "only" 2,1 mln but just have a look at gop motorways, expressways and gp - i mean existing, and warsaw ones, and nevertheless that part should be 2x4 cause otherwise all we'll get will bve a huge traffic jam, that's all


----------



## wholagun




----------



## PLH

:hahano:

*A1*



esce said:


> Kilka strzałów z dzisiejszej wycieczki rowerowej - troszkę jak paparazzi, głównie na dużych zoomach żeby nikt z budowy się nie przyczepił
> 
> Widok na Gdańsk z WD 466 - tutaj została prawie tylko kosmetyka:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zbliżenie - widać żurawie węzła Sosnica oraz prawidziwe mrowie sprzętu:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Niestety, w stronę Czech nie jest tak różowo...
> 
> 
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> 
> MA 467:
> 
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> Widok ogólny węzła Knurów:
> 
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> 
> Zbliżenie na WD468:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> I największy zoom na naszą ulubioną estakadę nad stawem Moczury WA 470 - widać jak daleko są tam z pracami:
> 
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> 
> 
> Dojazd do węzła:
> 
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> 
> I na koniec - zespół prądotwórczy
> 
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> 
> Pozdrawiam.


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## lukaszek89

mati162c said:


> of course - warsaw is 1,6 mln, and whole gop is 2,6 mln, and even warsaw so called metropolitan area is "only" 2,1 mln but just have a look at gop motorways, expressways and gp - i mean existing, and warsaw ones, and nevertheless that part should be 2x4 cause otherwise all we'll get will bve a huge traffic jam, that's all


Warsaw metro is about 3,350,000, GOP is about 3 million people with Rybnik Coal Area, Silesian Metropolitan Area is about 7 million people...(Silesian-Moravian-Lesser Poland area)


----------



## geogregor

lukaszek89 said:


> Warsaw metro is about 3,350,000, GOP is about 3 million people with Rybnik Coal Area, Silesian Metropolitan Area is about 7 million people...(Silesian-Moravian-Lesser Poland area)


There is always problem where the metro area ends. 3,3 mln for Warsaw has to include some quite far away places but let say it is possible.
But what the hell do you mean by Silesian-Moravian-Lesser Poland Area?
It is not a metropolitan area in any sense. There are too few connections and interactions to call it metro area. What common Ostrava has with Krakow? There isn't even direct connection (well maybe one or two trains a day)


----------



## Mateusz

DK52/S1/ I/11


----------



## Sponsor

Mateusz said:


> DK52/S1/ I/11


That's not a direct connection


----------



## Mateusz

Well obviously, but still !!! :crazy:

To be honest, I don't see any kind of connections between Ostrava and Cracow


----------



## geogregor

Mateusz said:


> DK52/S1/ I/11


Well, if I can drive from Opole to Suwalki does it mean they form a metropolitan area?


----------



## transport21

The new motorways in poland are fantastic. Could someone tell me which ones are currenly under construction. Excellent work on those photos btw.


----------



## PLH

^^









Red U/C, yellow starting soon.


----------



## Chris80678

There really isn't a lot of motorway/expressway construction going on at the moment is there? hno: 
The only major motorways currently being built are: 

A1 (Grudziądz-Toruń)
A1 (Gliwice-Czech border)
A4 (Zgorzelec-Krzyżowa)
A4 (Kraków-Szarów) 
A8 (Wrocław outer ring road)

The only major expressways currently being built are:

S3 (Szczecin-Gorzów Wlkp) 
S8 (Radzymin-Wyszków)
S8 (central Warsaw)
S6 (Słupsk bypass)
S10 (Stargard Szczecinski bypass)
S11 (Kórnik & Ostrów Wlkp bypasses)


----------



## Sponsor

^^
*U/C*

*1. Motorways:*

-A1 Grudziądz - Toruń .............................. 62,4 km.....08/2008 - 12/2011 .............................................. Skanska
-A1 węzeł Maciejów - węzeł Sośnica ............ 8,2 km.....03/2009 - 07/2011 Polimex–M., Doprastav, Eurovia, PRDiM Kędzierzyn-K.
-A1 węzeł Sośnica..................................... 2,2 km.....05/2008 - 10/2009 ............................................. J&P Avax
-A1 węzeł Sośnica - Bełk........................... 15,4 km...................10/2009 .............................................. J&P Avax www.a1.sosnica-belk.pl/
-A1 Bełk - Świerklany................................ 14,1 km.....08/2008 - 11/2010 .................. STRABAG / HEILIT+WOERNER www.belk-swierklany.pl
-A1 Świerklany - Gorzyczki......................... 18,3 km...................08/2010..Alpine Mayreder, Alpine Bau (D), Alpine stavebni společnost (Cz) www.a1.swierklany-gorzyczki.pl
-A4 Jędrzychowice/Zgorzelec-Wykroty......... 20,3 km...................07/2009 ..............DTP Terrassement, Bouygues, VSL www.zgorzelec-krzyzowa.pl
-A4 Wykroty-Krzyżowa.............................. 29,4 km...................08/2009 ............Strabag, Heilit+Woerner, Mota-Engil www.zgorzelec-krzyzowa.pl
-A4 Kraków Wielicka-Szarów....................... 19,9 km...................04/2009 .........DRAGADOS SA, Polimex – Mostostal SA www.wielicka-szarow.pl
-A8 obwodnica Wrocławia cześć 1: ............. 11,9 km.....10/2008 - 12/2010 ................................. Budimex Dromex SA http://www.obwodnica-wroclawia.pl/
-A8 most na obwodnicy Wrocławia................. 1,8 km.....05/2008 - 11/2010 ................................ Acciona, Mostostal http://www.obwodnica-wroclawia.pl/
-A8 obwodnica Wrocławia cześć 2: .............. 13,1 km.....10/2008 - 05/2011 .. Strabag/Heilit+Werner/Dywidag/Mostostal

Razem:.................................................. *217,0 km*
____________________________________


*2.1. Expressways (dual carriageway):*

-S1 Bielsko-Biała, w. Komorowice - w. Rosta... 2,8 km.....10/2008 - 04/2011 ............. Hermann Kirchner + PRM Mosty-Łódź
-S3 etap I Szczecin (Klucz) - Pyrzyce.......... 28,2 km.....01/2008 - 02/2010..Hermann Kirchner, Max Bögl, Energopol Szcz., Josef Möbius www.szczecin-gorzow.pl
-S3 etap II Pyrzyce - Myślibórz-Renice......... 26,7 km.....10/2007 - 10/2009 ........................................ Budimex Dromex www.szczecin-gorzow.pl
-S3 etap III Myślibórz - Gorzów Wkp. .......... 26,7 km.....12/2007 - 01/2010 ....................................... Berger Bau GmbH www.szczecin-gorzow.pl
-S5/10 węzeł Stryszek - węzeł Białe Błota...... 8,2 km.....08/2008 - 05/2010 ......................................... Budimex Dromex
-S5 węzeł Białe Błota - Lipniki ...................... 2,2 km.....08/2008 - 05/2010 ......................................... Budimex Dromex
-S6 obwodnica Słupska cześć 2x2................. 6,9 km.....08/2008 - 09/2010 ........... Strabag Sp. z o.o. i Wazkoz Sp. z o.o.
-S7 Elbląg - Pasłęk .................................. 14,6 km.....10/2008 - 05/2011..EUROVIA POLSKA S.A., EUROVIA Verkehrsbau Union GmbH, Warbud S.A., PU-T „OL-TRANS”, Drogomex
-S7 obwodnica Płońska................................ 4,7 km...................05/2009............................................ Teerag-Asdag
-S7 Grójec – Białobrzegi ............................ 17,8 km...................05/2009......................... Drogbud & IMB-Podbeskidzie http://www.grojec-bialobrzegi.pl
-S7 Skarżysko-Kamienna - Występa............. 16,7 km.....01/2009 - 12/2010 ...................................Strabag, Mota-Engil
-S7 Węzeł Kielce Północ .............................. 7,3 km...................06/2009....................................................Strabag
-S7 Kraków, Bieżanów-Rybitwy..................... 2,7 km.....10/2008 - 04/2010 ..............Polimex-Mostostal SA, Doprastav AS
-S7 Zakopianka ... obwodnica Lubnia ............. 4,0 km...................09/2009...................................NCC & Poldim Tarnów
-S8 przy obwodnicy Wrocławia ..................... 0,5 km.....10/2008 - 05/2011 ....... Strabag/Heilit+Werner/Dywidag/Mostostal
-S8 Warszawa: Konotopa–Prymasa Tysiąclecia 10,4 km.....01/2008 - 12/2010 ..... Budimex Dromex, STRABAG, Mostostal W-wa, Warbud http://s8.konotopa-prymasa.pl
-S8 Radzymin - Wyszków ........................... 17,3 km...................06/2009 ....................... WPRD & PPRM & Mosty Łódź www.radzymin-wyszkow.pl
-S10 obwodnica Stargardu Szcz. ................. 13,5 km.....04/2008 - 12/2009 .......................... Johann Bunte / Berger Bau
-S11 Poznań - Kórnik .................................. 9,1 km.....04/2006 - 03/2009 ..................................... Skanska & Strada
-S11 obwodnica Kórnika............................... 5,0 km...................06/2009 ............................ Skanska & COLAS Polska
-S69 Bielsko-Biała, w. Rosta - w. Mikuszowice.. 9,1 km.....10/2008 - 04/2011 ............ Hermann Kirchner + PRM Mosty-Łódź
-S74 Kielce - Cedzyna ................................. 4,2 km.....04/2009 - 10/2011 ... Fart/Fardub Consulting Kielce, Mosty-Łódź

Razem:................................................... *238,6 km*

Budowa przerwana:

-S19 obwodnica Wasilkowa ............................1,5 km.....11/2008......................................................... Strabag
____________________________________


*2.2. Expressways (single carriageway):*

-S6 obwodnica Słupska cześć 1x2.................... 9,4 km ..... 08/2008 - 09/2010 ........ Strabag Sp. z o.o. i Wazkoz Sp. z o.o.
-S10 obwodnica Wyrzyska ............................. 7,8 km ..... 06/2008 - 10/2009 . POL-DRÓG Piła / Przeds.Rob.Most. MOSTY Łódź / WAKOZ Luzino / GOTOWSKI Bud.Komunalne i Przemysłowe Bydgoszcz
-S11 obwodnica Ostrowa Wielkopolskiego.......... 6,1 km ..... 05/2008 - 11/2009 ...................................... Budimex-Dromex
-S69 Szare - Laliki, odcinek z tunelem .............. 2,7 km ................... 10/2009 ........................... Bogl a Krysl & Doprastav

Razem:...................................................... *26,0 km*

----------------------------

So there is *481,6 km* being constructed at this moment.



statistics from PL section by @*bebe.2006*


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## M_I_K_I

Chris80678 said:


> The only major expressways currently being built are:
> 
> S3 (Szczecin-Gorzów Wlkp)
> S8 (Radzymin-Wyszków)
> S8 (central Warsaw)
> S6 (Słupsk bypass)
> S10 (Stargard Szczecinski bypass)
> S11 (Kórnik & Ostrów Wlkp bypasses)


and also some S7 sections:
Skarżysko-Występa
Grójec-Białobrzegi

but, it's still not much. Definitely there will be more in a half year (those yellow sections)


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## transport21

The A1 looks to be the biggest one. I'd say it going to make some diffence in time saving whoever does that communte regularly. Any plans for the A18 to be connected to the german border?


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## PLH

The A18 is practically done, but will be repaved around beggining 2010.


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## bebe.2006

S8 Warszawa-Wyszków



RaV... said:


> przekreślona S8
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> obwodnica Wyszkowa S8 E67


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## Chris80678

The S8 between Warsaw and Wyszków looks fantastic - when will the whole stretch of the E67 between the end of Radzymin bypass and the start of Wyszków bypass be formally designated as S8? I notice that the S8 on the 
S8/E67 sign has a cross through it on the second photo so when will that be removed? The extra lane of the carriageway between Radzymin and Wyszków looks to be fully completed to me
On another subject entirely, the repaving of the A18 motorway will take some time but it will be worth it when it is finished in 2012 to complement the A4 from Zgorzelec to Krzyzowa which will probably experience huge traffic will drivers choosing to use it as an alternative to the single lane A18 
Only three months until the A4 from Zgorzelec to Krzyzowa is fully opened!


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## PLH

^^ This road will be officialy S when all works are finished.

*A8 Wrocław*



Rafis said:


> Fotki z strony wrocławskiego EURO 2012
> 
> http://www.e2012.eu/artykul.php?cid=15&aid=308
> 
> Węzeł Nowa Wieś
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> ul. Pełczyńska


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## Timon91

Budzisko :bash: :gaah:


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## RipleyLV

^ Should be Kaunas.

Interchange with A4?
http://images20.fotosik.pl/7/dc9d2323e7b155fb.jpg


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## PLH

Yes, it's A4.


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## Sponsor

^^Yep. A4/A8 interchange. To the right - Prague, to the left - Warsaw, straight - Katowice, opposite direction - Dresden.


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## ChrisZwolle

How many rest areas and service stations will there be along S-roads? One of the problem of the Autovías in Spain is that they barely have services along the road.


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## PLH

I suppose not many, but I'll check that.


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## Mateusz

Timon91 said:


> Budzisko :bash: :gaah:


At least it should be Budzisko (PL)(LT)


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## flierfy

What is actually the point in using symbols at all when every junction is marked by the same one.
This particular symbol is reserved for system interchanges in every other country I know of. Just not in Poland.


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## Mateusz

It is actually quite wrong... it should be 'junction' sign instead of interchage one...

But 'junction' signs doesnt exist in Polish law I think


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## PLH

^^ Will be changed most likely.

A4:



Bartek610 said:


> Witajcie!
> 
> Zamieszczam kilka fotek z okolic Zgorzelca. Zdjęcia są zrobione 22 kwietnia ale ze względów zawodowych mam okazję je wrzucić dopiero teraz


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## Sponsor

flierfy said:


> This particular symbol is reserved for system interchanges in every other country I know of. Just not in Poland.


You don't even know how much this annoys polish forumers. But:



Mateusz said:


> It is actually quite wrong... it should be 'junction' sign instead of interchage one...
> 
> But 'junction' signs doesnt exist in Polish law I think


"Exit" symbol doesn't exist now but gonna be brought in some day (I hope sooner than later).


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## Mateusz

It should be because currently delivers a wrong information to road users


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## ChrisZwolle

I have to note some German exits also have the interchange symbol, but they're at least actually build like interchanges. Poland either need to introduce the exit symbol, or get rid of the interchange symbols at regular exits.


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## Sponsor

IMO this type of sign should appear only in places where motorway or expressway crosses with another motorway, expressway or exceptionally dual carriageway GP-class road (high standard dual carriageway).


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## jacekfreeman

^^How long is this tunnel?


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## Qwert

Wow! There's signed Bratislava. I would prefer Žilina instead of Čadca, but it's cool anyway.


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## michal_OMB

jacekfreeman said:


> ^^How long is this tunnel?


600/700 m


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## michal_OMB

*A1*



John.Taylor said:


> Oto świeżuteńkie fotki z Mszany.
> 
> Okolica WD 535 [ul. 1 Maja]:
> 
> 1. Aby nie było wątpliwości - to jasno żółte na WD to drewno jest:
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> 5. Widok w stronę Gorzyczek:
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> 7. W oddali DW 933.
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> 9. I jeszcze raz Gorzyczki, tyle że z bajpasu:
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> WD 534 [ul. Wodzisławska] , jak już ktoś wcześniej zauważył, leży troszkę odłogiem hno:.
> Za to MA 536 ciągle rośnie, co do niedawna było jeszcze mało widoczne z bajpasu na DW 933.
> 
> Oto jak wygląda supełek:
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> 10. Widok z bajpasu w stronę Połomii, w tle MA 536:
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> 12. Z supełka na wschód - jeden z przyszłych łączników:
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> 13. na północ - MA 536:
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> 14. i na zachód... kolejne podpory węzła:
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> 21. Panorama Mszańska :
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> Mam nadzieję, że Geogregor się z fotek ucieszy





timmy2000 said:


> to ja może uzupełnie fotorelację kolegi John.Taylor'a :] węzeł wzięty od północy, zdjęcia niestety z komórki (zresztą tak jak powyższe )
> Połomia
> 1. MA529, na horyzoncie powstaje WD528
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> 4. WD 530 w ciągu ul. Centralnej w Połomii (widok od południa)
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> 5. WD530 widok od północy
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> 10. kilka zdjęć z dużej wysokości
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> 12. tam powstanie SPO w Mszanie (fajne uczucie stać ponad szczytami drzew )
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> 26. WD534 w ciągu DW933 Jastrzębie - Wodzisław
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> 27. j.w.
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> 28. zjazd do obiektów WD535 i MA536, które widać u John.Taylor'a :]
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> Przydałyby się fotki WD522 w Świerklanach. kiedy w zeszłym tygodniu go widziałem wyglądał na gotowy, jakby czekał już tylko na asfalt.


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## michal_OMB

*S69*



MaxMatt said:


> Mała fotorelacja:
> 
> Węzeł Mikuszowice, widok z ul. Kusia w stronę Bystrzańskiej
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> Węzeł Mikuszowice, widok z ul. Kolejowej w stronę bystrzańskiej, powstają już wysokie podpory części, która będzie przebiegać nad torami
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> A tu już wyżej, widok z ul. Prostej w stronę Żywieckiej; widać zaawansowanie prac - nowe linie energetyczne będą przechodzić nad drogą skosem, przy okazji słupy zostały zbliżone do okolicznych domów
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> To tyle. Widać pewne postępy, miejscami droga będzie przebiegała w naprawdę głebokim wykopie.
> 
> Fachowców przepraszam za błedy w nazewnictwie.


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## ChrisZwolle

This page contains 31,2 Megabytes of pictures...


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## Timon91

My computer has given up loading this page. Can I post another six times to go to the next page?


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## ufonut

sure adding my 2 cents


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## ufonut

bumping it up again


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## ufonut

OK Since no one else is bumping this thread I am posting more photos on this page...

A1 Sosnica-Belk section


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## Timon91

No


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## Timon91

more


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## Timon91

pictures on this page please


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## Timon91

Next page. Thank God. Sorry for this spamming, but it's about the life of my computer.


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## ChrisZwolle

dang


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## Verso

Wow, the previous page is a killer. :nuts:










Hehe, I haven't seen a funnier (negligible) place to announce an expressway.


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## Timon91

Don't start posting pics, Verso


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## Verso

We'll just talk from now on? :lol: Hey, I posted just 1 pic.


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## Majestic

Now you know what it's like to visit this section daily. :lol:


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## Timon91

The whole first page (except the sticky's) have their last post posted in the last 4 hours. Wow mg:

@Verso: one pic is a start. Who knows what will follow?


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## baderman

michal_OMB said:


> *S11 Ostrowiec Świętokrzyski*


OSTRÓW WIELKOPOLSKI, not Ostrowiec Świętokrzyski. It's tremendous difference.


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## ufonut

Tarnow Bypass



Kronos KBC said:


> Obwodnica Tarnowa
> *po remoncie*
> ====================
> fotki zrobione wczoraj
> 
> *fotka z góry św.Marcina*
> 
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> *trzy fotki z tego wiaduktu*
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> ========================================================================================
> 
> *kilka fotek z budowy mostu na rzece Wisłoka koło Pilzna*
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> :goodbye:


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## Mateusz

Let's put it simple 'balls cutting' barriers


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## Xmaster

Why isn't it expressway, just simple dual carriegeway ? Seems it could fit S-road standards


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## Mateusz

Because A4 will be built north from Tarnów  And there are no plans on upgrading this road to expressway anyway


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## Sponsor

^^Even this kind of road doesn't deserve an expresway status in Poland 

*[A4][E40]*


























source/more: http://www.zgorzelec-krzyzowa.pl/gallery.aspx


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## michal_OMB

beautifull photos


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## pijanec

What is speed limit on Tarnow Bypass?


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## PLH

pijanec said:


> What is speed limit on Tarnow Bypass?


100 km/h


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## Verso

Why is PL missing by SK?


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## Timon91

Old sign


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## Mateusz

[4] faded a bit


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## Miguel_PL

Tarnow bypass hasn't been built recently. It has undergone a reconstruction. That's the reason why a few signs haven't been changed yet


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## ufonut

Plonsk Bypass (S7) - opened yesterday



mizal said:


> 3-jadąc w stronę Gdańska:


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## Falusi

Sponsor said:


> ^^Even this kind of road doesn't deserve an expresway status in Poland
> 
> *[A4][E40]*
> 
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> 
> source/more: http://www.zgorzelec-krzyzowa.pl/gallery.aspx




Why are they using asphalt on bridges instead of concrete on a concrete surfaced motorway??


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## PLH

Because concrete would crack, as the viaduct is 'working'.

I know they do so in the US, but it's because they don't put any road surface on the sheer concrete construction of the viaduct.


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## Falusi

I think the asphalt covered viaducts on a concrete motorway will be quite bumpy at the surface changes after several years... But hopefully I won't be right.

In Hungary we have concrete (not the sheer concrete) covered viaducts on the M0 east.
I found some pictures about this in Hungary:
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/14536426
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/19382268
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/19380972


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## LMB

Falusi said:


> I think the asphalt covered viaducts on a concrete motorway will be quite bumpy at the surface changes after several years... But hopefully I won't be right.


It works in Germany, as you probably know.


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## Timon91

How long is this Plonsk bypass?


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## Sponsor

Almost 5 kmeters.


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## aswnl

Any polish user around who can check and/or make some Polish translations ?

ENG - DEU - NL - PL
Interstate (US) / Motorway (UK) - Autobahn - Autosnelweg - Autostrada
Access Controlled Trunkroad (UK) - Autobahnähnliche Bundesstrasse - Expresweg - Droga ekspresowa
National road/State road/Trunkroad - Bundesstrasse - Rijksweg - Droga krajowa (DK)
County road - Landstrasse - Provinciale weg / Gewestweg - Droga wojewódzka (DW)
Road - Strasse - Weg - Droga
Interchange (US)/Junction (UK) - Kreuz - Knooppunt - Wezel
Cloverleaf - Kleeblatt - Klaverblad - Skrzyzowanie bezkolizyjne
4-level stack - Maltheserkreuz - Sterknooppunt - *??*
Junction - Anslussstelle - Aansluiting - Wezel 
Exit - Ausfahrt - Afrit - *??*
Ramp/Slip road - Einfahrt/Ausfahrtrampe - Toerit/afrit (verbindingsweg) - *??*
Diamond intersection - *??* - Haarlemmermeeraansluiting/Hollands complex - *??*
*?? *- Halbkleeblatt - Halfklaverblad - *??*
Carriageway (UK) - Fahrbahn - Rijbaan - *??*
Lane - Spur/Fahrspur/Streife - Rijstrook - Pas
Hard shoulder/Emergency lane - Standspur - Vluchtstrook - *??*
Hard shoulder running - Standspurbenützung - Spitsstrook - *??*
Variable Message Sign (VMS) - Dwista/Elektronischer Anzeigetafel - DRIP - *??*
Rampmeter - Zufahrtampel - Toeritdosering (TDI) - *??*
Lane control signalling - Linienbeeinflüssungsanlage (LBA) - Verkeerssignalering(MTM) - *??*
Traffic control centre - Verkehrsleitzentrale - Verkeerscentrale - *??*
Traffic jam/Congestion - Stau - File/Congestie - Korek
Shoulder - Bankett - Berm - *??*
Median - Mittenbankett - Middenberm - *??*
Toll - Maut - Tol - Platne/Oplaty
Toll booth - Mautstelle - Tolstation - Punkt poboru oplat
Tollfree - Mautfrei - Tolvrij - Bezplatne
Service Area - Raststätte - Verzorgingsplaats (VZP) - Miejsce Obslugi Podróznych
Overpass - Brücke/Unterführung - Viaduct - *??* [over a road or railroad]
Bridge - Brücke - Brug - *??* [over water]
Tunnel - Tünnel - Tunnel - *??*
Crash barrier - Leitplanke - Geleiderail/Vangrail/Barrier - Bariera przeciwwypadkowa
Gantry - Schilderbrücke - Portaal - *??*
Traffic lights - Ampelanlage - Verkeerslichten (VRI) - *??*
Roundabout (UK) - Kreisverkehr - Rotonde - Rondo
Crossroads/Intersection - Kreuzung - Kruispunt - Skrzyzowanie
Orbital road/Ring road/Bypass/Beltway - Ortsumfahrung/Umgehungsstrasse - Rondweg/Randweg - Obwodnica
Cycle path - Radweg - Fietspad - Droga rowerowa
Pedestrian crossing - Fussgängerübergang - Voetgangersoversteekplaats (VOP) - Przejscie dla pieszych
Track formation - Spurillen - Spoorvorming - Koleiny
Road widening/Dualling - Erweiterung - Verbreding - *??*
Environmental effect study - Umweltverträglichkeits-prüfung - Milieueffectrapportage (MER) - *??*

If you have any additions to the list, feel free to make them


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## jakup

aswnl said:


> Any polish user around who can check and/or make some Polish translations ?


Although I'm no expert 


aswnl said:


> ENG - DEU - NL - PL
> Interstate (US) / Motorway (UK) - Autobahn - Autosnelweg - Autostrada
> Access Controlled Trunkroad (UK) - Autobahnähnliche Bundesstrasse - Expresweg - Droga ekspresowa
> National road/State road/Trunkroad - Bundesstrasse - Rijksweg - Droga krajowa (DK)
> County road - Landstrasse - Provinciale weg / Gewestweg - Droga wojewódzka (DW)
> Road - Strasse - Weg - Droga
> Interchange (US)/Junction (UK) - Kreuz - Knooppunt - *Węzeł*
> Cloverleaf - Kleeblatt - Klaverblad - Koniczyna
> 4-level stack - Maltheserkreuz - Sterknooppunt - *Krzyż maltański*
> Junction - Anslussstelle - Aansluiting - *Węzeł*
> Exit - Ausfahrt - Afrit - *Wyjazd*
> Ramp/Slip road - Einfahrt/Ausfahrtrampe - Toerit/afrit (verbindingsweg) - *??*
> Diamond intersection - *??* - Haarlemmermeeraansluiting/Hollands complex - *??*
> *?? *- Halbkleeblatt - Halfklaverblad - *Półkoniczyna *(I think )
> Carriageway (UK) - Fahrbahn - Rijbaan - *Jezdnia*
> Lane - Spur/Fahrspur/Streife - Rijstrook - Pas
> Hard shoulder/Emergency lane - Standspur - Vluchtstrook - *Pas awaryjny*
> Hard shoulder running - Standspurbenützung - Spitsstrook - *??*
> Variable Message Sign (VMS) - Dwista/Elektronischer Anzeigetafel - DRIP - *Znaki zmiennej treści (ZZT)*
> Rampmeter - Zufahrtampel - Toeritdosering (TDI) - *??*
> Lane control signalling - Linienbeeinflüssungsanlage (LBA) - Verkeerssignalering(MTM) - *??*
> Traffic control centre - Verkehrsleitzentrale - Verkeerscentrale - *??*
> Traffic jam/Congestion - Stau - File/Congestie - Korek
> Shoulder - Bankett - Berm - *??*
> Median - Mittenbankett - Middenberm - *Pas dzielący*
> Toll - Maut - Tol - *Płatna/Myto (Opłata)*
> Toll booth - Mautstelle - Tolstation - Punkt poboru oplat
> Tollfree - Mautfrei - Tolvrij - Bezplatne
> Service Area - Raststätte - Verzorgingsplaats (VZP) - Miejsce Obs*ł*ugi Podró*ż*nych
> Overpass - Brücke/Unterführung - Viaduct - *Wiadukt * [over a road or railroad]
> Bridge - Brücke - Brug - *Most *[over water]
> Tunnel - Tünnel - Tunnel - *Tunel*
> Crash barrier - Leitplanke - Geleiderail/Vangrail/Barrier - Bariera przeciwwypadkowa
> Gantry - Schilderbrücke - Portaal - edited: Portal *Bramownica*
> Traffic lights - Ampelanlage - Verkeerslichten (VRI) - *Sygnalizacja świetlna*
> Roundabout (UK) - Kreisverkehr - Rotonde - Rondo
> Crossroads/Intersection - Kreuzung - Kruispunt - Skrzy*ż*owanie
> Orbital road/Ring road/Bypass/Beltway - Ortsumfahrung/Umgehungsstrasse - Rondweg/Randweg - Obwodnica
> Cycle path - Radweg - Fietspad - Droga rowerowa
> Pedestrian crossing - Fussgängerübergang - Voetgangersoversteekplaats (VOP) - Przej*ś*cie dla pieszych
> Track formation - Spurillen - Spoorvorming - Koleiny
> Road widening/Dualling - Erweiterung - Verbreding - *Poszerzanie drogi*
> Environmental effect study - Umweltverträglichkeits-prüfung - Milieueffectrapportage (MER) - *??*
> 
> If you have any additions to the list, feel free to make them


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## Majestic

Environmental effect study - Umweltverträglichkeits-prüfung - Milieueffectrapportage (MER) - *Studium oddziaływania na środowisko*
Shoulder - Bankett - Berm - *Pobocze*
Traffic control centre - Verkehrsleitzentrale - Verkeerscentrale - *Centrum Nadzoru Ruchu*
Lane control signalling - Linienbeeinflüssungsanlage (LBA) - Verkeerssignalering(MTM) - *Sygnalizacja kierowania ruchem*
Ramp/Slip road - Einfahrt/Ausfahrtrampe - Toerit/afrit (verbindingsweg) - *Łącznica*
Gantry - Schilderbrücke - Portaal - *Bramownica*


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## Jakub Warszauer

Majestic said:


> Environmental effect study - Umweltverträglichkeits-prüfung - Milieueffectrapportage (MER) - *Studium oddziaływania na środowisko*


I would rather say it's *Raport o oddziaływaniu na środowisko* (ROŚ). That's the phrase used in these documents.


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## ChrisZwolle

> Environmental effect study


Isn't that an Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) in English?


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## Jakub Warszauer

aswnl said:


> Any polish user around who can check and/or make some Polish translations ?
> 
> ENG - DEU - NL - PL
> County road - Landstrasse - Provinciale weg / Gewestweg - Droga wojewódzka (DW)


I'm not sure about that one. We have three levels of local administration in Poland: Wojowództwo (regional), Powiat (local - large), Gmina (local - small). Each W consists of number of P, which consists of several G. (with small exceptions)

Each of these administration levels has it's roads to manage: drogi wojewódzkie, drogi powiatowe and drogi gminne.

I'm writing it because I've always thought that a county is something small in anglo-saxon system.


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## ChrisZwolle

I do think the DW roads are the closest to the provincial road though. It's usually nationwide (Droga Krajowa) and then the lower level, which would be the provincial roads or landstrassen, or in this case, the Droga Wojewódzka.


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## Fuzzy Llama

^^
Well, in my opinion County Road =/= Landstrasse, and that's the problem. I'd translate this as Provincial Road = Landstrasse = Droga Wojewódzka and County Road = Kreisstrasse = Droga Powiatowa.



> Hard shoulder running - Standspurbenützung - Spitsstrook - ??


I'd say *Jazda pasem awaryjnym*, although it's clearly forbidden by the Law so it's not exactly the same thing as English/German/Dutch terms.


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## Mateusz

DW=Droga wojewódzka=Voivodship Road=County Road or Regional Road ? 
DP=Droga powiatowa=District Road 

And 'zator drogowy' rahter than 'korek' for traffic jam


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## Realista_KR

^^ Maybe it is to be 'Pas rozbiegowy'/'Pas włączeniowy' ?


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## Mateusz

About ring roads

Bypass=Obwodnica

Ring road=Pierscien drogowy


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## msz2

S-7


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## aswnl

Thank you all for responding so fast.
I will repost this list to other countries threads here on SSC, in a way an international 'nomenklatur'-shortlist can be made on roads and traffic.


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## Mateusz

Very good idea of putting things like that together


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## ChrisZwolle

Found this one:
ZOAB (Zeer Open Asfalt Beton, czyli bardzo otwartym betonem asfaltowym)

source: RWS pdf


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## Mateusz

Bardzo Otwarty Asfalt Betonowy ?


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## flierfy

Allow me to correct and explain some terms and its German translation.

ENG - DEU
Interstate (US) / Motorway (UK) - Autobahn
Access Controlled Trunkroad (UK) - Autobahnähnliche Bundesstrasse
National road/State road/Trunkroad - Bundesstrasse
County road - Landstrasse (a Landstrasse is actually any road outside built-up areas that doesn't look like a motorway)
Road - Strasse - Weg - Droga
Interchange (US)/Junction (UK) - Kreuz (Kreuz is very specific while a junction can be pretty much everything)
Cloverleaf - Kleeblatt
4-level stack - Maltheserkreuz
Junction - *Knotenpunkt/Anschlussstelle*
Exit - Ausfahrt
Ramp/Slip road - *Rampe*
Diamond intersection - Raute
*Partial cloverleaf*- Halbkleeblatt
Carriageway (UK) - Fahrbahn
Lane - *Fahrstreifen*
Hard shoulder/Emergency lane - Standspur(rather awkward)*/Seitenstreifen*
Hard shoulder running - *Freigabe des Seitenstreifens*
Variable Message Sign (VMS) - Dwista/*Elektronische* Anzeigetafel
Rampmeter - *Zuflussregelungsanlage/Zuflusssteuerung*
Lane control signalling - *Linienbeeinflussungsanlage (LBA)*
Traffic control centre - Verkehrsleitzentrale
Traffic jam/Congestion - Stau
*Verge* - Bankett
Median*/central reservation* - *Mittelstreifen*
Toll - Maut
Toll booth - Mautstelle
Tollfree - Mautfrei
Service Area - Raststätte
Overpass - Brücke/*Überführung*
Bridge - Brücke
Tunnel - *Tunnel*
Crash barrier - Leitplanke (common) or Schutzplanke (technical)
Gantry - Schilderbrücke
Traffic lights - Ampelanlage(awkward) better: Ampel (common) or Lichtsignalanlage (LAS) (technical)
Roundabout (UK) - Kreisverkehr
Crossroads/Intersection - Kreuzung
Orbital road/Ring road/Bypass/Beltway - Ortsumfahrung/Umgehungsstrasse*/Ringstrasse*
Cycle path - Radweg
Pedestrian crossing - *Fussgängerüberweg*
Track formation - *Spurrillen*
Road widening/Dualling - *Ausbau/Verbreiterung*
Environmental effect study - *Umweltverträglichkeitsprüfung* (UVP)


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## ChrisZwolle

> Track formation - Spurrillen


I have also seen "Spurinnen". Is there a difference between the two?


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## ufonut

A1 Pyrzowice-Gorzyczki

Photos by times


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## ChrisZwolle

Is that first pic the Sośnica interchange?


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## Mateusz

WOW, I have never expected such progress on this part of A1


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## RipleyLV

My friend drove there 3 days ago, now he's back and he said that this site is damn MASSIVE!


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## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is that first pic the Sośnica interchange?


Yep.



ChrisZwolle said:


> So is this border station Grzechotki actually in use? I guess everybody still uses the Braniewo border crossing, right?


Grzechotki is still closed.



WaSzkaSC said:


> Dawno nie było zdjęć z okolicy Bolesławca  Myślę, że czas to nadrobić  Kilka zdjęć z przejażdżki między WA-39 a WA-41.
> 
> Wejścia na WA ( bramki były otwarte ! )
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> Kierunek Wrocław, jezdnia północna
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> Kierunek Zgorzelec, również jezdnia północna
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> Gmina Bolesławiec wita
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> Węzeł Bolesławiec - info
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> Okolica 42km
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> A na koniec z kilka ujęć z samochodu.
> Budynek na OUA Bolesławiec
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> I na koniec przejażdżka przez Węzeł 'Krzyżowa' kierunek Berlin -> Wrocław


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## ChrisZwolle

Why isn't it opened yet? Seems finished...


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## PLH

Oh, not this again


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## flierfy

ChrisZwolle said:


> I have also seen "Spurinnen". Is there a difference between the two?


Spurrinnen or Spurrillen. Spurrinnen is even the better term as Spurrillen sounds as if they were made purposely.


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## PLH

S3 Szczecin - Gorzów Wlkp. *huge aerial pics *

http://szczecin-gorzow.pl/?load=s3_inwestycje&sub=lotnicze2&id=0&lp=13


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## Mateusz

Well, Summer that's it ! There was enough of delay


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## aswnl

Happy to see Poland is on it's way up in freeway construction.
Nice pictures !


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## ChrisZwolle

Is this the exact S5 routing around Bydgoszcz? Because it both has an east-west as well as a north-south route here.


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## Mateusz

Ha ha, there was so long argument about S5 through Bydgoszcz...

I think western bypass will be built


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## Chris80678

No surprise to see that the signs on the A4/A18 haven't been altered to say 
A4 Drezno and A18 Berlin :bash: 
Olszyna, Zgorzelec and Jedrychowice should be removed permanently hno:


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## ChrisZwolle

I have no problems with Zgorzelec, it's a significant town at the border, and you don't want to sign no Polish towns while you still have like 50 km to go across Polish soil.


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## Chris80678

ChrisZwolle said:


> I have no problems with Zgorzelec, it's a significant town at the border, and you don't want to sign no Polish towns while you still have like 50 km to go across Polish soil.


Okay, I agree Zgorzelec should stay on the A4 & A18 signs but
Olszyna and Jedrychowice should definitely disappear of them for good and definitely before the motorway opens in July/August
Zgorzelec is probably the most important border town on the Polish/German border


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## Timon91

Görlitz and Zgorzelec together have approximately 90,000 inhabitants, which is indeed quite a lot. Frankfurt an der Oder and Słubice have also got approximately 90,000 inhabitants. Still Zgorzelec (33,000) is bigger than Słubice (25,000).


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## Sponsor

Some statistics just to remind how wonderful life is 


______________________________________________________________________



*UNDER CONSTRUCTION*

Motorways - *237,1 km*
Dual expressways - *219,8 km*
Single expressways - *26,0 km*

overall - *482,9 km*


------------------------------

*
OPERATING*

Motorways - *831,4 km*
Dual expressways - *306,9 km *
Single expressways - *228,2 km*

overall - *1366,5 km*


------------------------------



*TENDER*

Motorways + expressways - *1057,6 km*



_____________________________________________________________________



overall *U/C* + *Operating* + *Tenders* = *2907 km*


:banana: :banana: :cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ That map will look significantly different in 2 - 3 years


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## bebe.2006

donaldinio said:


> i drove a lot through poland - tell me where are those "good quality" 2 line roads - have not seen them


The gray, dual carriageways (same about 1000 km) on the map (by Białostoczanin ):









&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&


And I don't think Spain has now much more then 450 km roads U/C.


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## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, and I also think Spain has had the biggest motorway construction done now, while Poland is just starting.


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## Mateusz

I am still kinda proud of this little thing :banana::lol:


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## Timon91

Why is the DK18 yet displayed as a motorway?


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## PLH

Cause it would be one in other coutries.


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## Sponsor

It's not included in statistics though


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## PLH

It is actually.


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## ChrisZwolle

It will recieve motorway status as soon as the southern carriageway is rehabilitated, right?


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## PLH

Yep,a toll free one.


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## ufonut

S11 - bypass of Ostrow Wielkopolski 



sector said:


> Podniebna relacja z budowy obwodnicy Ostrowa
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> Wiecej fotek z EURO BIG WAy CAMP 2009 na http://www.bigways.pl/


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## baderman

donaldinio said:


> Don't want any potential visitors disappointment - here's the most current map of existing A's and S'es in Poland,obviously does not include any tendering or in in construction roads (who cares while driving a car)


That's not entirely true. There are no all currently finished expressways. Lacking S3, S7 or S11 are only few to name.


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## Timon91

Cool pics, ufonut


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## ufonut

They are not mine, I just copy and paste


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## Timon91

I know, but you posted them.

It looks like this bypass will be 2×2, while the map shows 1×2. Weird.


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## PLH

*A8 Wrocław*


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## ufonut

Refurbished A4 in Katowice

Photos by Bula8


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## ChrisZwolle

Modern... Although the noise barriers are a bit excessive imo, makes it feel claustrophobic.


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## PLH

Modern? Rather tacky..

A propos - tender for renovation of A18 will be announced on Monday.


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## ChrisZwolle

It will look much better with better overhead signage...


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## PLH

New concrte will be in my opinion more revolutionary


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## Mateusz

And civilised rest areas too


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## dawid_silesia

A4 last Saturday





Sośnica (kierunek Katowice)





Murckowska (Gliwice-Sosnowiec z jezdni zbiorczej  )





Murckowska (Sosnowiec-Gliwice)





Sośnica (kierunek Wrocław)


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## RipleyLV

Construction update 17.06
*S8 Rybniki - Białystok*

It's going to be a great ekspressway without emergency lanes. :no:


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## PLH

Verso said:


> ^^ Isn't that too expensive?


It will be concrete. They're starting in 15 days 



RipleyLV said:


> What about Warszawa-Terespol (PL/BY)?


Bypass of Mińsk Mazowiecki and connection of it to Warsaw are to come first, other sections - we will see.


----------



## RipleyLV

Will this be the future S8 to Augustów?


----------



## PLH

Yes.
http://global.images6.fotosik.pl/459/daa8e34ac16e3c1d.png


----------



## RipleyLV

^ Cool! Is the construction date known?


----------



## Mateusz

PLH said:


> But not all A roads *have to* be tolled. A18 and A6 are not, and won't be.
> The other way round, it's not stated anywhere that S roads cannot be tolled too.
> 
> The whole thinking tolled A/free S is only misinterpretation of the law.


Exactly... so many polish forumers believe that will stay forever... I doubt that :nuts:


----------



## bebe.2006

Not tolled S7 bypass of Kielce U/C on 15.06.2009:



msz2 said:


>


----------



## Des

Xmaster said:


> Today in Lithuanian business newspaper I saw article, that contract of A2 motorway was signed. They will finish construction of missing parts from Warsaw to German border till 2012 and estime of 106 km long construction is 1.5 billion EUR. Company, which will do works is austrian company, called "Strabag".


Thank god! I drove from Berlin to Poznan and vice versa and the S2? from the German border to where the A2 starts 50km from Poznan is really a pain in the ass. Especially on weekdays when the road is filled with trucks both ways hno: And even on that 50km of A2 highway to Poznan there were still many parts with roadworks but it's much better than the S2. I will come back when the A2 is finished 

Poland was very nice though, friendly people and good parties


----------



## Mateusz

It wasn't S2  It was just normal national road, it was DK2

Anyway...










Dresden ! :cheers::banana::banana:^^:cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Finally!


----------



## Sponsor

Yeah but only at the last exit in Poland.


----------



## Timon91

^^They've also changed it at Krzywowa interchange now, right?

Anyway 

:dance:


----------



## Sponsor

Timon91 said:


> ^^They've also changed it at Krzywowa interchange now, right?


Nope, still Jędzrzychowice City. Anyway, they may change this later because now everything have to be agreeable with construction project so until the section is not opened there will be Jędrzychowice signed.


----------



## Mateusz

Check this out guys, A collage made by one of FPW users @ MAG

'Greetings from A18 E36'


This will be history soon :banana::lol::nuts:


----------



## bebe.2006

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=541312&page=284

A8 baypass of Wrocław



alchemik said:


> (...)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (...)


----------



## ufonut

Some works on S86 (Tychy-Podwarpie)

Photos by esce


----------



## Mateusz

Really nice urban expressway ! 

I never knew that S86 has full 4 lanes at some point )


----------



## kalle_sg

Mateusz said:


> I never knew that S86 has full 4 lanes at some point )


It's only a short part, couple hundred metres before the S86/86/94 intersection. Still, it looks good 

BTW, @ufonut. The S86 expressway stretches only between Katowice and Sosnowiec, the rest of this road (Podwarpie - Tychy) is a regular national road (DK86).


----------



## Mateusz

Well, after upgrade, more of it would become S86 in fact, wouldn't be bad for big metro area like Silesia


----------



## kalle_sg

No upgrade is planned. 86 is supposed to be a road for local traffic and it was even mentioned in Polish subforum that there may be more traffic lights on this road in future (not on the current S86 of course). The long distance traffic is expected to flow via the Eastern Bypass of Silesia Metro Area (S1 expressway). On the other hand some parts of this road could have already been an expressway.


----------



## Mateusz

Well, but also some kind of S xx / S xxx D) expressway could be also considered for local traffic  But I see expressway = transit only 

And construction of A2 Nowy Tomyśl-Świecko will start 16.07  Information from Strabag insider


----------



## PLH

It's 17th, not 16th, and it was said way earlier.


----------



## Mateusz

One day difference  When it was said ?


----------



## PLH

More than a week ago.


----------



## PLH

Looking only at motorways may be daunting, so now an interlude in the form of 370km of regular roads. 

Section I DK1/91 Łódź - Piotrków Trybunalski (35 km)

Section II DK12/74 Piotrków Trybunalski - Sulejów (12km)

Section III DK74 Sulejów - Kielce - Opatów (145km)

Section IV DK9 Opatów - Lipnik (11km)

Section V DK77 Lipnik - Przemyśl (165km)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Love it! Got RSI from scrolling, but the pics are great.

These pics show how much truck traffic there is, and that you're almost always stuck behind trucks, so those expressways are necessary!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

edit - podwójne


----------



## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> you're almost always stuck behind trucks, so those expressways are necessary!


Yeah, it's driving from truck to truck, but almost all of them drive 85 km/h (which is electronically limited) and don't slow down to to 50 in build-up area, so if you feel like sticting to speed limits they're not that big problem. But you know how it looks like :devil:


----------



## Mateusz

No expressway on DK9 planned


----------



## Matz32Z

*KONRAKT B Stan na 30.06.2009*
http://www.zgorzelec-krzyzowa.pl/gallery.aspx









Km 22.0 W-E 









Km 31.2 W-E 









Km 45.0 W-E 









Km 45.5 E-W 









Węzeł Bolesławiec E-W 









Km 50.0 W-E 









PZ 51 W-E 









MA 25 S-N 









WA 27 E-W 









WA 29A S-N


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Looks completed... opening date is still August 10th?


----------



## Mateusz

No, now it's September


----------



## PLH

August 10th was the end of construction. Now you have to make all those check-ups and stuff, this lasts about 3 weeks.


----------



## Mateusz

Permission to build bypass of Mińsk Mazowiecki (A2) was given ! This will be first stretch of A2 eastwards from Warsaw. In fact would be funny if it will be finished quicker than Łódź-Warsaw 

This section will be 21 km long, will contain three junctions (Mińsk Mazowiecki, Janów, Kałuszyn). 

Time given for the construction is 27 months, if construction will start August or September then it should finished about end of 2011


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A2? or DK2?


----------



## Mateusz

A2 !


----------



## Sponsor

As Mateusz wrote - A2, full profile to be more specific.


----------



## Mateusz

Yes and with reserve for 3rd lane but I don't think this will be used quite soon anyway


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Cool, I thought they were only gonna upgrade DK2 for the time being


----------



## Mateusz

No, this will go as a new route. 

In fact a part of Siedlce bypass was designed for future motorway A2 and this will be upgraded to motorway standards but that's bit more far future


----------



## Sponsor




----------



## Mateusz

This little road will be a temporary connection between old DK2 and A2 but I hope only map just show it as single carriageway road...


----------



## PLH

Another section of Zakopianka wa opened today :banana:



Kronos KBC said:


> Obwodnica Lubnia :banana:
> *węzeł Lubień kierunek Zakopane*
> fotki zrobione dzisiaj
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *fotki w kierunku Krakowa*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kierunek Zakopane
> 
> 
> *dwie fotki z tego wiaduktu*
> kierunek Kraków
> 
> 
> kierunek Zakopane
> 
> 
> kierunek Kraków
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :goodbye:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Very nice pics. S7 looks very scenic, possibly the most scenic Droga Ekspresowa in Poland.


----------



## PLH

Together with S69.


----------



## Sponsor

And future S19 and S3 - both south of A4 m'way.


----------



## Qwert

Simply, every expressway close to Slovakia plus S3 will be scenic.


----------



## Verso

PLH said:


> Another section of Zakopianka wa opened today :banana:


Rather short.  But it looks nice.


----------



## Xmaster

Car from Lithuania (on the left) is also enjoying new section of S7


----------



## PLH

Verso said:


> Rather short.  But it looks nice.


Actually this section is only 4km, but i's part of a larger one, having 20km.


----------



## Sponsor

PLH said:


> Actually this section is only 4km, but i's part of a larger one, having 20km.


12 :scouserd:
overall 16 km


----------



## don.lpz

looks nice



PLH said:


> Actually this section is only 4km, but i's part of a larger one, having 20km.


And when it will be all done?


----------



## PLH

Sponsor said:


> 12 :scouserd:
> overall 16 km


I know, but I measured on GoogleEarth and there was 20 km :dunno:



don.lpz said:


> And when it will be all done?


Its already completed


----------



## Sponsor

PLH said:


> I know, but I measured on GoogleEarth and there was 20 km :dunno:


I did the same thing and counted 16 kilometers.


----------



## PLH

*A8 Wrocław*

More pics here: http://www.e2012.eu/artykul.php?cid=73&aid=370


----------



## bigalowski

PLH said:


> I know, but I measured on GoogleEarth and there was 20 km :dunno:
> 
> 
> 
> Its already completed


he meant the completion of the whole Kraków Zakopane section!


----------



## PLH

As an S road? Then never. Lubień - Rabka Zdrój will be in ca. 5 years, other sections ??


----------



## Mateusz

Kraków-Myślenice, somehow new route, too urbanised area


----------



## PLH

But for sure not in 6 - 10 years


----------



## PLH

Coming back to Zakopianka:

The recently opened section 
in 2005:


and in 2007:


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Wow what a scenic drive that must be through the hills.


----------



## Sponsor

A1 Stryków - Pyrzowice - 180 km  But what's important Częstochowa - Pyrzowice section has timeline to 2014 while Stryków - Częstochowa is 2012. BTW for some time it'll be the longest stretch being ever constructed in PL.


----------



## Czas na Żywiec

So besides Gdansk, every Euro city will have a direct motorway connection to Western Europe by 2012. Awesome. (Well Gdansk, you'd have to take A1 to A2 and you'd still get there....) If only S6 was more of a priority but maybe traffic in the north isn't enough to give it that?


----------



## bebe.2006

Check the pictures on the pages:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=389291&page=100

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=389291&page=101

Attention, hot. 

All from today.


----------



## RipleyLV

Mateusz said:


> This route is part of future Warsaw Express Beltway. It's currently DK8 but will be upgraded to expressway.
> http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6861/ak1x.jpg


Wow, a lot has changed since I drove there last time in 2003. Is this unfinished viaduct finished yet?


----------



## Des

Mateusz said:


> Yes, it started today ! At last !  :cheers:


:cheers:


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

RipleyLV said:


> Wow, a lot has changed since I drove there last time in 2003. Is this unfinished viaduct finished yet?


No.

Bid for redevelopment and adaptation to S (expressway) standard is currently under way, and is close to happy end. All required administrative decisions were granted. I'm quite sure they will start this year.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> *Polish highway budget increased*
> 
> Poland plans to spend a colossal €4.57 billion on road projects in 2009. This represents a 35% increase over the previous year. The southern Silesia region will account for 20% of the total budget, doubling the investment made in the region in the previous year. However there is a political disagreement with regard to Poland’s A2 highway project. The Polish political party PiS said that the agreement to build the section of the A2 motorway linking Swiecko with Nowy Tomysl was signed too quickly and will provide to great a financial benefit to the winning consortium while negatively affecting the Polish budget. Meanwhile Skanska is working on a €31.3 million contract to build a ring road in the Polish capital Warsaw. The project involves building a 7km highway and seven viaducts and is set to start shortly with completion due in 2011.
> 
> Poland's ambitious highway building programme did hit financial buffers earlier this year, due to the problems with the baniking industry. This resulted in work being stopped and plans being put on hold. However, new funding sources are being found and work on many stalled projects has resumed while new projects are once again in planning.


According to Worldhighways.com


----------



## don.lpz

PiS always says such things, and actually they prepared such agreements when they was ruling in Poland, and actual ruling party - PO only signed under this "trash". After that, they were searching for solution, that will allow to end this investment before euro 2012... with success!


----------



## ufonut

Slight oversight ? Nobody posted the best photo of the bunch.

Photo by Rusonaldo.










Isn't Poland great ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What's the purpose of those chicks? Shining up the highway construction?


----------



## bebe.2006

^^

Because of this. A2 beginning of construction: 



bebe.2006 said:


> Check the pictures on the pages:
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=389291&page=100
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=389291&page=101
> 
> Attention, hot.
> 
> All from today.


----------



## ufonut

S11 Poznan-Kornik movie by DSzumaher.

On couple of turns you can notice a slight asphalt discoloration. It is due to a special ultra-grip coating applied on those turns to keep cars from sliding in bad weather. 

This approach has not be widely used in Poland so far.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

How fast were you going? It seems like you were going slow. Great video though! I wish I got to see these great highways when I was in Poland, maybe someday...


----------



## Verso

Nice Poznań bypass... a bit too high noise barriers though.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

They are good looking noise barriers though.


----------



## DSzumaher

For most of the time I've been driving 110 km/h, sometimes a little slower. When there is a single carriageway, it obviously 90. When the road starts dual carriageway (not expressway) is the regulatory 100 km/h. 

It seems that the drive is slow due to the application of a large focal length of the camera. Also, the distance (spacing) are not entirely real. 

The large focal length is used to better see the road signs, and the surrounding roads. 

This colgrip not only characteristically looks, but also specific smells.

@Verso, it's Kórnik bypass towards Poznań


----------



## Mateusz

Yeah, bypass of Poznan is 2+2+2+2


----------



## Sponsor

*[S7] [E77]* *Lubień* *bypass*










































:cheers:

taken from: _http://www.transprojekt.com.pl/galeria_realizacji.php_


----------



## Mateusz

They could build it to Zakopane


----------



## RipleyLV

Will it go to SK border?


----------



## Mateusz

ATM, plans to Rabka only... to Chyżne...2015 or something ?


----------



## Qwert

Mateusz said:


> ATM, plans to Rabka only... to Chyżne...2015 or something ?


In the meantime they could at least repave DK7 between Rabka and border. Or it's already done?


----------



## Sponsor

Qwert said:


> In the meantime they could at least repave DK7 between Rabka and border. Or it's already done?


Being repaved at the moment. To be done by the end of August but delay is possible.


----------



## Lankosher

Sponsor said:


> Being repaved at the moment. To be done by the end of August but delay is possible.


I'd rather call it a total road reconstruction. 35 kilometres contracted. Works started in autumn 2007 should be completed till the end of August allthough contractor will not make it by the scheduled time.


----------



## Mateusz

This road was in bad state


----------



## Sponsor

Mateusz said:


> This road was in bad state


Sure, tjat's why it's being reconstructed.


----------



## Qwert

igorlan said:


> I'd rather call it a total road reconstruction. 35 kilometres contracted. Works started in autumn 2007 should be completed till the end of August allthough contractor will not make it by the scheduled time.


That's even better. From what I saw the DK7 was destroyed by trucks. It probably wasn't built to carry heavy truck traffic. "Total reconstruction" (I suppose it includes construction of new roadbed thus actually new road on the site of the old one) will be long lasting solution unlike simple repaving. That's definitelly a good step.kay:


----------



## Lankosher

Qwert said:


> That's even better. From what I saw the DK7 was destroyed by trucks. It probably wasn't built to carry heavy truck traffic. "Total reconstruction" (I suppose it includes construction of new roadbed thus actually new road on the site of the old one) will be long lasting solution unlike simple repaving. That's definitelly a good step.kay:


Your supposition is correct, the roadbed has been reconstructed from scratch. The road is now capable of taking the heaviest trucks (will be soon to be exact with you).


----------



## Chris80678

The DK7 between Kraków and the Slovakian border should all be expressway in my opinion - S7 all the way. 2015 is not soon enough for a complete upgrade of this route


----------



## bebe.2006

Beltway of the City Krosniewice.

The Definitely Middle of Poland (national roads no.1 and no.2) :

all pics from http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=725220




























and the best photos:
http://www.korespondentdrogowy.pl/O..._nr_2_galeria_pokaz_3468_90816_0.html#galeria


----------



## Mateusz

Well maybe alternative route to A2 will be DK72,14 since DK92(2) is quite far away at this point


----------



## bebe.2006

Nice photos from S69 U/C, a new connection between Slovakia and Poland.

More pictures unter http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=570272&page=51

by Jaimar 
3-4 km from Slovakian border:










View to border station:


----------



## Timoth12

Nice. And good progress of S69. I only hope that we will speed up the construction of remaining sections of D3. Btw, tunnel lailiki will be opened in November?


----------



## bebe.2006

Timoth12 said:


> (...) Btw, tunnel lailiki will be opened in November?


Yes, that is the plan. And the plan seems to work.

by Jaimar:


----------



## Mateusz

Western bypass of Poznań (S11) between A2 and DK92 is now under construction. Works should be finished at the end of 2011  Skanska is a contractor


Oh and breaking news

A4 Zgorzelec-Krzyżowa will be opened 8th August


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Mateusz said:


> Oh and breaking news
> 
> A4 Zgorzelec-Krzyżowa will be opened 8th August


Really? I heard so many dates until now...


----------



## Mateusz

Well some FPW guys have really good sources in administration


----------



## Matz32Z

A4 Zgorzelec -Krzyzowa 

Movie 35-56km A4
PART I




Movie by * sergiovanhelsing*

PART II




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6K6oJR-kc0
Movie by *sergiovanhelsing*

Open 8.08.2009


----------



## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> Really? I heard so many dates until now...


This is 200% sure, PM is coming, info from the inside


----------



## Mateusz

Someone forgot about Łódź :bash:


----------



## bebe.2006

ChrisZwolle said:


> so will the A4 open on saturday or not?


OK, we've got a situation here. Some journalists confounded end of the construction date with opening date. So we had the information the section will be opened this weekend. They foregot the road must be technical controlled before opening. It tooks usual up to 4 weeks.
The reality is on monday 10th August ends officially the construction. I think the the road administration won't need fully 4 weeks for check the technical stuff, but without that the road can't be opened.
So we have to keep patient for a while more.
Sorry guys.


----------



## and802

Miguel_PL said:


> Eeeee... Yet I've mentioned that they ARE full of traffic and it's the fact we can't deny... Please, next time read carefully.


sorry for that. I need more English lessons ...


----------



## Mateusz

Crap, so waiting till bloody September


----------



## Verso

bebe.2006 said:


> OK, we've got a situation here. Some journalists confounded end of the construction date with opening date. So we had the information the section will be opened this weekend. They foregot the road must be technical controlled before opening. It tooks usual up to 4 weeks.
> The reality is on monday 10th August ends officially the construction. I think the the road administration won't need fully 4 weeks for check the technical stuff, but without that the road can't be opened.
> So we have to keep patient for a while more.
> Sorry guys.


How didn't you foresee that?


----------



## Mateusz

Some kind of euphoria I suppose...


----------



## bebe.2006

Verso said:


> How didn't you foresee that?


It's the first time in last few years I remember we've got such wrong information about opening date. And it was a information you want to belive. So everybody were happy and we counted the days towards. 

------------------------------------------------------------------

A2 heading to German border:

You can see here the first steps of the construction 

Pics:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=40588602&postcount=2142
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=40588646&postcount=2143

First drive  :
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=40594040&postcount=2147


----------



## Mateusz

Hopefully there won't be any delays, it's key road for Euro 2012, same as Łódź-Warsaw


----------



## LMB

Mateusz said:


> Hopefully there won't be any delays, it's key road for Euro 2012, same as Łódź-Warsaw


No, it's a key road for all those small yet powerful businesses located around Poznań, which do some 70% of their trade with Germany, and keep the unemployment at 2.3%. This region is the Baden-Württemberg of Poland.

Euro2012 will only take 2 weeks.


----------



## Mateusz

Yes but with help of these new motorways Poland might be taken to the new level and prestige


----------



## x-type

could somebody post the most recent map of built A and S roads in PL?


----------



## Mateusz




----------



## bebe.2006

In the meanwhile we wait for A4 same pictures of existing A1 section near Gdańsk:

by pmaciej7 in July


pmaciej7 said:


>


----------



## x-type

what sectrion of A4 are we waiting to be opened?


----------



## Mateusz

Obviously Zgorzelec-Krzyżowa

and Kraków-Szarów, which was mean to be open in April but I think next year is more likely a real date


----------



## x-type

oh, i ahven't noticed that Zgorzelec - Krzyžowa is A4, i always mix A18 and A4 at that part.
what is about plans of A4 to the east? will it be continued soon and where should it end?


----------



## totek123

it will end on PL-UA border. Right now section form Krakow to Szarow (about 20 km) is U/C.
Hole A4 is going to be build untill 2012 but there are some problems in the section near border


----------



## japan

The missing section of the A4 between Wrocław and German border (Krzyżowa-Zgorzelec) has been scheduled for opening on 29 Aug (at least so they said here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=204917&page=224 )


----------



## bleetz

When are they planning to complete the Warsaw - Frankfurt (Oder) section completely? I think the plans were initially 2012 but I heard that they are a bit behind?

BTW, I got fined for speeding on the A2 a week ago  The policemen were quite nice and spoke good English though.


----------



## Mateusz

Świecko-Nowy Tomyś, 5/2012
Łódź-Warsaw, god knows

Our police staff gets better every year in terms of languages, no problem for communication in english or german


----------



## MAG

bleetz said:


> When are they planning to complete the Warsaw - Frankfurt (Oder) section completely? I think the plans were initially 2012 but I heard that they are a bit behind?


Building work on the western section of the A2 began approximately 2 weeks ago. The building work is scheduled to last 2.5 years. Given that construction is seasonal in Poland, and allowing for hiccups, we are looking at Q2 2012 before the motorway is finished. If you are able to read Polish look here (and subsequent pages), if not, look anyway at some of the pictures.

Our central stretch of the A2 is another story (i.e. Łódź- Warszawa). When we have some credible information from a trusted source, we'll let you know.





bleetz said:


> BTW, I got fined for speeding on the A2 a week ago  ...


You must have been doing well over the limit. Traffic officers are quite lenient if you go over the limit for a while as it is not worth their time. You only get nicked if you offend persistently or drive dangerously.




bleetz said:


> The policemen were quite nice and spoke good English though.


Frankly, I would not expect anything less. It seems to be the norm in Poland if your job is a cushy number like being a motorway traffic officer. You must be fair-minded, reasonably well-spoken and often you are required to know a second language.


.


----------



## Mateusz

Toda contract for construction of 'L' in Warsaw (S2 (Lotnisko-Puławska), S79 was signed, altogether it is like 8 km long, construction should finish before Euro 2012

It will be 2X3 straight away


----------



## Timon91

What motorways and expressways are actually planned to be finished for Euro 2012?


----------



## Mateusz

We don't know precisely... literally things update on daily basis. That's good, there is very high pressure because of Euro


----------



## bleetz

MAG said:


> You must have been doing well over the limit. Traffic officers are quite lenient if you go over the limit for a while as it is not worth their time. You only get nicked if you offend persistently or drive dangerously.


I wasn't actually on the motorway section of the A2. I was about 100 km west of Warszawa driving through a small town. The police were hiding in the bushes! I was doing 81km/h in a 50km/h zone (so was everyone else!).

I don't think these were motorway police but they were still very lenient and polite.


----------



## Mateusz

Simply traffic cops


----------



## bleetz

They had a black Kia Ceed estate, seemed brand new, still didn't look much like a motorway cop car.


----------



## Mateusz

For motorways we have V6 Vectras 

Some time ago there was a case where German woman was speeding well over 200 kph, she was caught by police... she said that she didn't know police in Poland is such fast cars... 










Motorway Police Station, A2 

Polish 'Alarm fur Cobra' ? :nuts::cheers:


----------



## DerMartini

^^
However, we don't have such vehicles:


----------



## bigalowski

and for the time being we can only feast our eyes. Polish Policja is not goanna steer one of above-cited for a long time. I would be positevely surprised if they do!!!




DerMartini said:


> ^^
> However, we don't have such vehicles:


----------



## Random_Guy

I don't think we need anything more than that for now though. If it's good enough to get Porsche, or any other faster car then it's alright.


----------



## pijanec

bleetz said:


> I was about 100 km west of Warszawa driving through a small town. The police were hiding in the bushes! I was doing 81km/h in a 50km/h zone (so was everyone else!).


Did they stop only you?


----------



## bleetz

No. There were two other cars that were stopped but the majority of drivers got away with it. The traffic was quite intense and literally _everyone_ was ignoring the speed limits! That section _desperately_ needs to be converted to a dual carriageway! 50 km/h for international traffic is very harsh.


----------



## Mateusz

Construction of motorway should start soon there


----------



## zielos

A4 will be open probably on this friday :banana:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What is Krzyzowa doing on that sign? 



> The village has a population of 500.


----------



## panda80

ChrisZwolle said:


> What is Krzyzowa doing on that sign?


Probably it's there because it's the place of the interchange with A18.If borders should not be signed anymore inside Schengen, I think interchanges should be, even if in this case probably very few will take A18 after coming from A4 from Germany.


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## DerMartini

^^
That is probably because of the interchange there. 
However, they should sign it like that:








but with the proper interchange icon (I mean the "X")


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Signing an interchange 48 kilometers in advance is nonsense. Why not sign Boleslawiec? That's a regional town. Other countries don't sign interchanges that far in advance too, right?


----------



## bleetz

How long is this new part of A4?


----------



## bebe.2006

ChrisZwolle said:


> What is Krzyzowa doing on that sign?
> 
> Quote:
> The village has a population of 500.


Take it poetically:

krzyżować się = to cross = to intersect
krzyż = a cross
dwie drogi krzyżują się = two roads cross

So, Krzyżowa is the place where A4 and A18 cross. It is a little village but right word. Everybody in Poland know that, right?

PS. Of course it is a nonsence. It would be better: Boleslawiec, Legnica, Wroclaw, Katowice or Krakow.


----------



## bebe.2006

A8 in Wrocław by Pankracy:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=41382004&postcount=5951

one picures from the post:


----------



## Mateusz

I think drawing DK18 as motorway looks simply better but it's not real. Officially at the moment it is just normal dual carriageway


----------



## Timon91

One side is A18 (westbound), the other side (eastbound) is DK18, right?


----------



## Verso

^^ I doubt that's the official numbering. :lol: I remember now how this road looks like.


----------



## Sponsor

Can't be motorway only in one direction  It's DK18 both ways.


----------



## Verso

Sponsor said:


> Can't be motorway only in one direction


Why not?  It could be.


----------



## Timon91

Yeah, one half is up to motorway standards, the other half isn't. It's a pity that I've only driven the DK18 eastbound, otherwise I'd have known.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I've driven DK18 westbound only, but back then (2003) both sides where horrible. I was on a school tour with a bus from Brzeg to Berlin. I fell in love with a girl on DK18, how cute 
(It didn't last very long though  )


----------



## Rusonaldo

Foto from A2 Świecko - N. Tomyśl

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=389291&page=110


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## ChrisZwolle

Nice. Quite some people/vehicles at work there.


----------



## MAG

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nice. Quite some people/vehicles at work there.


Yeah, it looks really busy there, all hands at the pump!

And to make it clear, *Rusonaldo* has not just accidentally walked onto the building site seeking a bit of shade, he is one of the many engineers building the road.
So we'd better suck up to him so he continues to feed us with more photos. 


.


----------



## Homem

Nice work ! 
So, in 2011 it will be possible to use the motorway from Berlin to Lodz and in 2012 untill Warsaw, right ?


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## rakim

^^ right


----------



## Warsawbynight

Homem said:


> Nice work !
> So, in 2011 it will be possible to use the motorway from Berlin to Lodz and in 2012 untill Warsaw, right ?


Yes, it must be. We are arguing that this motorway section is absolutely key for EURO 2012 to not make our country ashamed in front of the whole Europe


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## Mateusz

*Quick pic of 'L'*



Works are going quite fast here. Fast start. This will be VERY busy road in Warsaw


----------



## ChrisZwolle

L = Lotnica = airport?


----------



## Mateusz

No, 'L' because S79 and short part of S2 which is u/c looks together like letter L. That's where it comes from


----------



## RipleyLV

Mateusz said:


> This will be VERY busy road in Warsaw


Which one? S2?


----------



## Mateusz

Yes and S79 too because it provides connection between inner bypass, future outer ring and Airport, also it will take E77 traffic in future when N-S route will be construced and new S7 to Tarczyn


----------



## Sponsor

ChrisZwolle said:


> L = Lotnica = airport?


Close  airport = lotnisko
Finally another part of the ring is getting shape. S8 + S2 + S79 and another part of S8 soon.


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## ufonut

Sundays are the best - always a new set of pictures 

S7 (Skarzysko Kamienna - Kielce)



msz2 said:


> Widok w kierunku Warszawy na wiadukt nad linią kolejową Nr8:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a tu widok w stronę Krakowa:
> 
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> siatka ogrodzeniowa:
> 
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> 
> Budowa ronda na węźle Barcza:
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Układanie miesznki mineralno bitumicznej (to chyba będzie już warstwa
> ścieralna) na węźle Barcza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kładka:
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> Ruch cały czas odbywa się po jednej jezdni:
> 
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> Kierunek Warszawa:
> 
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> 
> A tu węzeł Kielce Północ:
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> Wąłczenie DK-73 w S-7
> 
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> 
> 
> Strabagowi została jeszcze do wykonania druga jezdnia na obwodnicy Kielc na długości ok. 300m:


----------



## Mateusz

So now Kielce bypass is now during building extra lanes, right ?


----------



## Czas na Żywiec

I can't see any of the pictures you posted, ufonut.


----------



## Timon91

For me only three are not visible (bandwith exceeded)


----------



## Mateusz

Same for me


----------



## and802

*a4 Szarów - UA Border*

good days collegues,

do we still think 05/2012 is a doable going-live date for an A4 Szarów-UA Border project ?


----------



## Homem

Connections with Western Europe and within country are a priority for Poland.
Basic motorway network linking main polish cities is far to be finished, modernized airports network was urgent, decent intercity railways (HSR will come later) idem, urban transportation will be boosted...etc. That's the important points. UEFA'cup must be used as a smart pretext to improve polish infrastructure (like the olympics in Athens and Greece in 2004).

Despite the co-organization, Ukraine is not really a priority for Poland, and it's understandably.
In 2012, perhaps the A4 will reach Rzeszów maximum, no further.


----------



## MAG

and802 said:


> good days collegues,
> 
> do we still think 05/2012 is a doable going-live date for an A4 Szarów-UA Border project ?


Time will tell.

It is nothing more than pure speculation whether the A4 will reach Ukraine or not by May 2012. The EURO2012 football event is only a catalyser to prevent loss of face by the Poles but it is not a drop-dead date, after which the Universe will collapse.

We will still need the A4 (and other motorways) badly after the summer of 2012 and I would rather the motorways were built to a decent standard than score some short-term political point, which proves nothing.

I would be overjoyed if all of A4 were completed by May 2012 but right now I am not holding my breath. I cannot see how the required public tender procedures can be satisfied and the road built in less than 3 years.


.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

MAG said:


> I would be overjoyed if all of A4 were completed by May 2012 but right now I am not holding my breath. I cannot see how the required public tender procedures can be satisfied and the road built in less than 3 years.


I think it could be done if construction starts this year, and they start working on the entire stretch simultaneously. They also open the A4 and A2 in 2.5 - 3 years, so it should be possible. But if they do it phase by phase, they won't make it in time, probably not even before 2015.


----------



## bleetz

I am surprised to see the A4 longer than the A2 at this stage. Isn't Berlin-Warsaw connection the first priority? Is A4 expected to be busier than A2 once both of them are completed?


----------



## Czas na Żywiec

I'd say A4 is just as important as A2. A2 (when completed) will connect Warsaw, Lodz and Poznan with Berlin. A4 connects Krakow, Katowice (Largest urban agglomeration in Poland) and Wroclaw with Berlin (via A18) and Dresden.


----------



## and802

MAG said:


> Time will tell.
> 
> It is nothing more than pure speculation whether the A4 will reach Ukraine or not by May 2012. The EURO2012 football event is only a catalyser to prevent loss of face by the Poles but it is not a drop-dead date, after which the Universe will collapse.
> 
> We will still need the A4 (and other motorways) badly after the summer of 2012 and I would rather the motorways were built to a decent standard than score some short-term political point, which proves nothing.
> 
> I would be overjoyed if all of A4 were completed by May 2012 but right now I am not holding my breath. I cannot see how the required public tender procedures can be satisfied and the road built in less than 3 years.
> 
> 
> .



you are right. Universe will not collapse (not to mention Solar system). in fact my question concerned A4 finish before Euro 2012. and it looks like only Tom Cruise can do it (a mission impossible hero).

again you are right even if we cross Euro 2012 date we still need them.

one thing I assume you can be wrong is that in terms of hurry we could loose some quality. this will never happen. I believe there are procedures which will not allow to do it in the wrong way. the most importantly: even construction companies will never agree to do it in the wrong way, 'cause they will not receive the payment. so it does not really depend on political correctness/national proudness.

anyway I got the answer. A4 will not be ready.


----------



## MAG

bleetz said:


> I am surprised to see the A4 longer than the A2 at this stage. Isn't Berlin-Warsaw connection the first priority? Is A4 expected to be busier than A2 once both of them are completed?


I'd have to check the traffic volumes. 
I suspect the south is busier than the Berlin-Warszawa axis. 
Maybe someone else has the details to hand and will beat me to it.

But the real reason is that in the south there were the remains of the old Reichsautobahn network, including earthworks. The A2 is being built from scratch, though in may places it follows the old German path.


EDIT:

Here is a prognosis of Polish traffic volumes in 2015.
The legend says to add traffic flows in both directions to arrive at the total average number of cars per day.














and802 said:


> ... I believe there are procedures which will not allow to do it in the wrong way...


Sorry, maybe I did not make it clear enough.
What I meant was that the agreed standard may be lower by bilateral agreement and the construciton companies just sign up to it.

I did not want to imply that any construction company would knowingly build a motorway to a lesser standard. 
That would be like shooting yourself in the foot.


.


----------



## Warsawbynight

bleetz said:


> I am surprised to see the A4 longer than the A2 at this stage. Isn't Berlin-Warsaw connection the first priority? Is A4 expected to be busier than A2 once both of them are completed?


del


----------



## Warsawbynight

bleetz said:


> I am surprised to see the A4 longer than the A2 at this stage. Isn't Berlin-Warsaw connection the first priority? Is A4 expected to be busier than A2 once both of them are completed?


Ofcourse it is. A2 is much more important and should be the priority, but in Poland most people do not think about national priorities, but there particular and regional interests


----------



## ChrisZwolle

In my opinion, not taking Euro2012 into account, the highest priority should be to construct the A2 between Lodz and Warszawa, as well as building S2 through Warszawa. Another high priority should be to complete A1. A4 east of Kraków is less important due to the lower population density and lower traffic volumes. A2 east of Warszawa also doesn't need to be constructed right away if there's no funding available.


----------



## Mateusz

I don't think that they would skimp on anything. There is project and design, company builds it 

Łódź-Warszawa connection was meant to be first to be constructed before WWII, but these were only visions though


----------



## Andrzej_3598

ChrisZwolle said:


> In my opinion, not taking Euro2012 into account, the highest priority should be to construct the A2 between Lodz and Warszawa, as well as building S2 through Warszawa. Another high priority should be to complete A1. A4 east of Kraków is less important due to the lower population density and lower traffic volumes. A2 east of Warszawa also doesn't need to be constructed right away if there's no funding available.


Yesterday construction works commenced on A2 bypass of Mińsk Mazowiecki (21km) - first section of A2 east of Warsaw. Minister of infrastructure Grabarczyk said that they are going to speed-up preparations for all the sections of A2 between Warsaw and future S19 (next to Międzyrzecz Podlaski). I guess - this is due too substantial savings on actual projects (usually contract value is 30-40% lower than budget).

Traffic on DK2 (national road 2) east of Warsaw is not so marginal. IN case of Mińsk Mazowiecki - 26000 cars/day (out of it 7000 tracks).


----------



## bleetz

MAG said:


> Here is a prognosis of Polish traffic volumes in 2015.
> The legend says to add traffic flows in both directions to arrive at the total average number of cars per day.
> 
> http://josviaqueforum.blox.pl/resource/potokiruchu2015gddkia.jpg


This is an interesting map. I can see that they are still planning to build E67 ("Via Baltica") via Bialystok as opposed to Lomza. However, from what I know, the Warsaw-Lithuania section of E67 will not be completed by 2015 and so I would expect to see more traffic through Lomza on this map.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

To be frank I think A4 Gliwice - Wroclaw - Zgorzelec is underrated. Surely more than 8000 - 12000, I expect it to be more around 25000 in 2015. 

And 25,000 is internationally seen still low for a major intercity motorway. In NL, 40,000 is even seen as quiet.


----------



## Mateusz

I see there will be loads of savings


----------



## PLH

Everyone can sign this petition to make Hermann Kirchner Polska Sp. z o.o., Johann BUNTE Bauunternehmung GmbH and Mostostal Warszawa SA withdraw from lodging a protest on A2 Łódź - Warszawa tender.

http://www.petycje.pl/petycjePodglad.php?petycjeid=4385

http://translate.google.pl/translat...hp?petycjeid=4385&sl=pl&tl=en&history_state0=

Just click Popieram petycję - jestem *ZA*


----------



## Mateusz

Good idea !  I will sign it too


----------



## PLH

Remember you'll recieve a mail in orcer to confirm this.


----------



## Czas na Żywiec

I've signed it as well


----------



## karejeeta

Signing it too!


----------



## Sponsor

Already signed obviously 

Interesting picture of A4 between Kraków and Szarów. There was a dozen meters long crack. Dragados company completely removed this part of motorway to build it again. You can see all layers.



Kronos KBC said:


>


:bash:


----------



## bigalowski

Can we see it on the map? Anyone, please.





Andrzej_3598 said:


> „Budowa drogi S-8 Wrocław – Psie Pole – Syców etap II - Oleśnica (węzeł Cieśle) – Syców (węzeł Syców Wschód)”
> 
> Information from today:
> 
> Budget – 988 620 158,20 PLN
> 
> Submitted proposals (price - 100%):
> 
> 1. SKANSKA S.A. 468 662 280,21
> 2. MOTA – ENGIL POLSKA & MOTA – ENGIL (P) 483 838 492,03
> 3. BUDIMEX DROMEX & EUROVIA POLSKA 484 852 400,00
> 4. MOSTOSTAL Warszawa & ACCIONA INFRAESTRUCTURAS 538 944 912,99
> 5. HERMANN KIRCHNER Polska & STRABAG & DYWIDAG Bau GmbH & HEILIT + WOERNER Budowlana 556 236 148,75
> 6. ALPINE Bau GmbH & ALPINE ŚLĄSK Budowa & ABM Solid 569 576 624,87
> 7. J&P – AVAX S.A. 639 970 640,82
> 8. SRB CIVIL ENGINEERING LTD & PBG S.A. & APRIVIA 698 581 954,40
> 
> 
> Source:www.gddkia.gov.pl


----------



## Andrzej_3598

bigalowski said:


> Can we see it on the map? Anyone, please.












Look at Wrocław, then please find Oleśnica (east of Wrocław). We talk about yellow section east of Oleśnica.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

988 Mln PLN = about € 240 million. I think it's rather expensive for the Olesnica - Syców section. (budget by GDDKiA) fortunatly, bids are about 50% lower.


----------



## michael_siberia

Winners of a few A2 Strykow-Konotopa tenders (non-urban sections!) claimed over 10 mln EUR per km. This budget is not huge. In 2007 budgets like that were almost always too small. 

PS _Heroes_ of this post: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=42900644&postcount=3229 (H-K, Johann Bunte, Mostostal) protested against Chinese offers. Chinese companies want about 6,5 mln EUR per km.


----------



## michael_siberia

All protests against decisions of A2 tenders were dismissed by GDDKiA (central road administration). http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/article/in...0dbf1/id_art/dbea418296d78b302abbd5533cf7ca03 (unfortunately, only in Polish )


----------



## Verso

Less maps, more construction, please.


----------



## Mateusz

Grab a bulldozer or something and off you go


----------



## Verso

Good you didn't offer me digging with my bare hands.


----------



## PLH

Verso said:


> Less maps, more construction, please.


Wait no more than a year, I predict ca. 1000 km to be U/C.


----------



## Timon91

Yeah, more and more tenders are coming, good! :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Given the fact that most projects are now constructed 50% under budget, what does this mean for other, low-priority projects? They have money to spare, so they could speed up the construction of roads like S6, S11 and S12.


----------



## PLH

Sure they will as EU subsidy is only for given type of project, but I'd rather keep this money for future maintenance of toll free A and S roads, because there will be problems with it.


----------



## ufonut

It's virtual money, it doesn't exist. They will simply have to borrow less. Poland records budget deficit every year, next year it may top 50 billion PLN. 

Pray to God that powers that be won't simply freeze investments to show better budget results (lower deficit). The only thing that prevents them from grabbing this virtual money pot is a possible public outcry which no doubt would lead to worse results at the polls come any election.


----------



## Timon91

Will they also remove the border station so that there is just a straight 2×2 motorway running from Germany to Poland? They can rebuild it to make a service station out of it.


----------



## PLH

Yes, they will - Apart from the PPP contract there is also another one for reconstruction to A standards of these 2 kms just at the border, so including the booths.


----------



## michael_siberia

m_p_13 said:


> WD 468 and beautiful new boards


It's one of many examples, where actual Polish signage system doesn't fulfill its role (this motorway will be 2x3)


----------



## Tornadoli

So how much of the A1 will be 2x3 then? All of Lodz to Katowice? Or only a few kilometres outside of Katowice? Or something else?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Katowice on the signs is a bit misleading, since it runs via Gliwice, 30 kilometers to the west of Katowice.


----------



## PLH

Tornadoli said:


> So how much of the A1 will be 2x3 then? All of Lodz to Katowice? Or only a few kilometres outside of Katowice? Or something else?


Now only 25 kms will be 2x3, but whole A1 has a reserve for the third lane.


----------



## Tornadoli

PLH said:


> Now only 25 kms will be 2x3, but whole A1 has a reserve for the third lane.


Reserve meaning that it will be built when? And do all motorways (expressways?) have reserves for a third lane?

And where will those 25 km be?


----------



## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> I also read GDDKiA "forgot" that the last 1.5 km near Swiecko also needed to be constructed between the existing A12 to Germany and the A2 U/C by the concessionaire. So, they rushed to construct that one too


Oh, oh, oh. Don't you ever belive what our press is writing about roads. This section isn't the part of the PPP one because at the time the contract was prepared only the state was allowed to build near the border. 
This section, as you probably know, already exists, so it's not a problem at all.



Tornadoli said:


> Reserve meaning that it will be built when?


When the traffic would be high enough.



Tornadoli said:


> And do all motorways (expressways?) have reserves for a third lane?


All A class roads constructed after 2002 and some exressways do have it.



Tornadoli said:


> And where will those 25 km be?


South of A4.


----------



## kalle_sg

PLH said:


> South of A4.


A couple km north of A4 too, although I don't remember, where exactly the three-lane stretch will begin. For sure the whole stretch near Gliwice is to be 2x3.


----------



## michael_siberia

2x3 will end probably on the Wieszowa exit, driving northbound from Gliwice. 2x3 section will be about 40 km long: from km 502 to km 542 (north beginning/ending: http://siskom.waw.pl/autostrady/a1/a1_km499-506.jpg south beginning/ending: http://siskom.waw.pl/autostrady/a1/a1_km534-548.JPG)


----------



## Mateusz

Anymore motorways/expressways planned 2X3 in Poland ? 2+3+3+2 will in Poznań.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Which road in Poznan will be 2+3+3+2? S5? S11? A2?


----------



## Mateusz

A2


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I got the idea from maps that the A2/S5/S11 will all be multiplexed along the southern side of Poznan. De A2 is the primary east-west motorway, and the S5 will come from Bydgoszcz in the northeast and runs to Wroclaw in the south, while S11 comes from Bytom in the southeast and runs towards Kolobrzeg in the northwest, hence all these roads converge at the southern side of Poznan.

That said, are there plans for a northern ringroad of Poznan, so that a full beltway will be created (like the A1-A2-S8-S14 plans around Lodz).


----------



## Tornadoli

Mateusz said:


> Anymore motorways/expressways planned 2X3 in Poland ? 2+3+3+2 will in Poznań.


What is meant by 2+3+3+2? Any pictures?


----------



## x-type

Tornadoli said:


> What is meant by 2+3+3+2? Any pictures?


example in Italy


----------



## Tornadoli

And Poznan will have something like that?:O Seriously? Why? I mean, even the S8 will only be 2 lanes in each direction, and here they want to build something like that? It's awesome, but they should do it everywhere!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A local/express setup allows for more exits in a shorter distance on the parallel roadway without disrupting through traffic with exiting and entering traffic every 800 m. 

It could also be a way to avoid those silly "minimum distance between interchanges" laws... (Odstępy między węzłami)


----------



## ufonut

Example S1


----------



## Chris80678

Not long until the completion of A1 Gliwice - Bełk and the interchange at Sosnica
October is the planned finish month isn't? It will be a step closer to the
Czech border (but still too far). The 921 exit should be signed
Ruda Śląska and Rybnik as those are the most important towns to which the road connects not Knurów and Gierałtowice hno:


----------



## delfin_pl

ChrisZwolle said:


> I was just thinking, are there plans for a branch off S7 towards the port of Gdansk? It would be better to have a direct access from the port to S7/A1 instead of using city streets.


Trasa Sucharskiego will be such a branch, it will connect southern Gdansk bypass with its port, there will be a car tunnel (900m) under Vistula as well

here you go


----------



## bleetz

ChrisZwolle said:


> DK50 is an interesting road, it forms a U-route around Warszawa. It's 293 kilometers long.


They should connect the north ends of it and make it into a ring road! Though it would be quite far away from the city centre, maybe a better idea would be to connect Lochow and Plonsk via Wyszkow.


----------



## Mateusz

If I'm not wrong then Gdank will have a full ring


----------



## delfin_pl

Mateusz said:


> If I'm not wrong then Gdank will have a full ring


you are right, existing S6 -western bypass, plus S7 southern bypass, plus Trasa Sucharskiego, Trasa Zielona (eastern bypass) and Trasa Słowackiego.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

These "Trasa" roads, are mostly just like motorways, only somewhat more interchanges and sometimes the lack of a shoulder, right? That's why they don't get an A- or S-number.

Roads like Trasa Siekierkowska in Warszawa or Drogowa Trasa Srednicowa in Silesia would be classified as motorways or expressways in other countries.


----------



## delfin_pl

ChrisZwolle said:


> These "Trasa" roads, are mostly just like motorways, only somewhat more interchanges and sometimes the lack of a shoulder, right? That's why they don't get an A- or S-number.
> 
> Roads like Trasa Siekierkowska in Warszawa or Drogowa Trasa Srednicowa in Silesia would be classified as motorways or expressways in other countries.


"Trasa" is a word commonly used for inner city, usually non-collision roads, and those roads are like S roads, vide Trasa Zamkowa in Szczecin, Trasa Kwiatkowskiego in Gdynia, Trasa Siekierkowska in Warsaw or Drogowa Trasa Średnicowa in Upper Silesian aglomeration.


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## Miguel_PL

delfin_pl said:


> "Trasa" is a word commonly used for inner city, usually non-collision roads, and those roads are like S roads, vide Trasa Zamkowa in Szczecin, Trasa Kwiatkowskiego in Gdynia, Trasa Siekierkowska in Warsaw or Drogowa Trasa Średnicowa in Upper Silesian aglomeration.


Yeah, those 'trasas' are typical for big Polish cities and are commonly known. None of the Varsovians uses the Avenue of the United States (which is the official name of the 'Trasa Łazienkowska' on the eastern bank of Warsaw). Everyone drives along 'Trasa Łazienkowska' . Another examples may be Trasa W-Z (east - west) whose proper name's Solidarity Avenue. What's more, in Warsaw there are also 'Stradas' like Wisłostrada which stands for 'Vistula Motorway'.


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## ChrisZwolle

Trasa NS, does that mean north-south instead of polnoc-poludnia?


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## PLH

Yes.

-------

A4/A8 Wrocław



Strusiu said:


> Co raz bliżej
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> Tuż przed samym wiaduktem, dalej widoczny WA-6.
> Jak widać są tutaj oraz pod pozostałymi dwoma żółte linie, które spychają ruch lekko na lewo, ponieważ przy starym układzie jezdni nawet osobówki by się nie mieściły i o wypadki byłoby bardzo łatwo. Dla uspokojenia co niektórych, z tego co zauważyłem to są one klejone. Ktoś jednak myśli u wykonawcy.
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> Północna strona WA-6.
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> Południowa strona WA-6.
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> Tradycyjnie za WA-6 stoi wiadukt do rozebrania oraz dalej WŁ-6.2
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> Rusztowania pod WŁ-6.2 po stronie północnej.
> 
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> 
> P.S. Zdjęć mało ze względu na prędkość przejazdową, jutro może uda mi się zrobić kilka fotek w drugim kierunku.


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## Tornadoli

ChrisZwolle said:


> These "Trasa" roads, are mostly just like motorways, only somewhat more interchanges and sometimes the lack of a shoulder, right? That's why they don't get an A- or S-number.
> 
> Roads like Trasa Siekierkowska in Warszawa or Drogowa Trasa Srednicowa in Silesia would be classified as motorways or expressways in other countries.


So why aren't they in Poland?


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## ChrisZwolle

They are "Class GP" roads. S-roads and A-roads have stricter standards about the number of interchanges and the distance between them. Some Class GP roads are as good as motorways (like the ones I mentioned before).


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## PLH

del


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## PLH

^^ OK, but can you imagine that some parts of Kraków ringroad has A standard and is marked as S *only* because it's part of DK7 (which was said to be S7 at the whole length), and some parts are S standards marked as A road *only* because of being a part of DK4(which was said to be A4 at the whole length) ? AADT, accidents don't matter. 

@ Tornadoli

1. Not all them are national roads. Only the can be A or S.
2. Only some road numbers are planned to be A or S. No matter what happens, this can't be changed.
3. We have the same requirements for existing and new A and S roads - some older routes don't meet them, and can't be A or S even with additional speed limit.

Why? Just don't ask.


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## ChrisZwolle

Back in the late 90's, I've read many S-roads were initially planned as 1x2 roads (like S3), but I believe they're now building nearly all S-roads into 2x2 from the beginning.


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## PLH

Yeas they are, but as for S3, it was initially planned as A3, with some of it's parts build in half-profile in the 80's.


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## msz2

Kielce North Interchange S-7:


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## Sponsor

PLH said:


> ^^ OK, but can you imagine that some parts of Kraków ringroad has A standard and is marked as S


As far as I know western part of Kraków ring (Balice - Opatkowice) has *S* standards and is marked *A* though (I mean narrow lanes - 3,5 + 3,5 + 2,75 emergency lane).


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## PLH

Yeas, but northern one is the other way round - could be A(and was till last year), is S.


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## Sponsor

Yes but are we really gonna regret this 3000 meters long section? 
I just hope that its continuation will also be signed as S-road despite it's being officially built as GP-road.


And Chris just to be clear: GP-road aren't some kind of special roads in general. Some of them are just like S/A-road (likę DTŚ) but this: 








is also GP-road. Actually All national roads (DKxx) and even some province roads (DW-xxx) are GP


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## PLH

Sponsor said:


> is also GP-road. Actually All national roads (DKxx) and even some province roads (DW-xxx) are GP


No, not all national roads have GP standards.

Here you have about them (you can improve you Polish )
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droga_klasy_GP


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## PLH

Sure we did. Here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=204917&page=243

BTW Signs at A4/A18 will be changed, I'll post the project as soon as I get it.


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## Mateusz

They don't need to really to put scheme of an interchange on the sign, it just can be normal way, A4 straith and take ramp on right to get on A18, simple as that plus some apprioprate overhead sings which I bet will be tiny :/


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## LMB

ChrisZwolle said:


> Back in the late 90's, I've read many S-roads were initially planned as 1x2 roads (like S3), but I believe they're now building nearly all S-roads into 2x2 from the beginning.


That's what I call your taxes well spent! :lol:

(For those not completely aware of how EU works: the Dutch pay most per capita into the common budget)


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## Timon91

Zgorzelec and Jedrzychowice :devil:

Luckily Dresden appears after a while


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## ChrisZwolle

LMB said:


> That's what I call your taxes well spent! :lol:
> 
> (For those not completely aware of how EU works: the Dutch pay most per capita into the common budget)


Most of the EU budget goes to agriculture. (about 65 billion per year!) But I don't mind my tax euros coming into good use in Poland, i.e. motorways.


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## bebe.2006

Thanks Chris!

Found in the A8-thread: a funny machine:



fredru$ said:


> (...)
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Fot. 7 AOW Sekcja 1 - Betonowanie ścieku (podanie betonu B40)
> 
> 
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> 
> Fot. 8 AOW Sekcja 1 – Betonowanie ścieku w formie ślizgowej
> 
> 
> 
> .


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## aswnl

ChrisZwolle said:


> But I don't mind my tax euros coming into good use in Poland, i.e. motorways.


Indeed, I'd rather see it invested in good roads for Poland than in just another monthly trip of the EU-parliament from Brussels to Strassburg...


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## Mateusz

Really cool machine, producing thing while waiting !


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## bebe.2006

aswnl said:


> Indeed, I'd rather see it invested in good roads for Poland than in just another monthly trip of the EU-parliament from Brussels to Strassburg...


The people in Poland know how important is the help from EU.


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## bleetz

Yeah, its cool that Western Europe invests significant amounts in Poland (and Lithuania, where I'm from). It not only benefits us at this hard time, but I'm sure that it will benefit them in the future too!


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## Mateusz

>


A4 near Cracow :cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

Wieliczka?


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## Mateusz

Yes, only there will be 2X3


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## PLH

If you feel like watching 100 pics from construction of A1, check here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=542716&page=249


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## bigalowski

michael_siberia said:


> Szarów - Rzeszów Eastern sections probably will be finished before Euro2012, but Rzeszów Eastern - Jarosław section - I don't believe in opening it to traffic before Euro2012. No way. (tender wasn't announced yet)



When is it due to be announced?


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## bigalowski

PLH said:


> Now only 25 kms will be 2x3, but whole A1 has a reserve for the third lane.


Assuming that traffic flow intensity on A1 will be high, it won't take long until the other parts will have 3rd. lane put into use!


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## MAG

aswnl said:


> Indeed, I'd rather see it invested in good roads for Poland than in just another monthly trip of the EU-parliament from Brussels to Strassburg...


and 



ChrisZwolle said:


> But I don't mind my tax euros coming into good use in Poland, i.e. motorways.


In my view, the benefit to tax payers is immediate and bilateral, ranging from better road safety, through to improved tourism and business opportunities due to lower labour costs in Central Europe. 

And of course, we are very grateful for the financial help, especially when it is delivered with such exemplary positive attitude like yours. The sooner we reach economic equilibirum between new and old EU members, the better for everybody.


.


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## msz2

S-7 in świętokrzyskie region:



CKKarol said:


> Odcinek Skarżysko-Występa fotki z 23.09.2009.
> Widok z WD-10 w kierunku północy.
> 
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> WD-10
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> Osnowa geodezyjna przy WD-10.
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> Pomiędzy WD-10 a WD-11.
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> WD-11.
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> Przekop między WD-11 a E-12.
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> E-12 widok ogólny w kierunku południa.
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> Zbrojenie słupów.
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> Widok ogólny w kierunku północy.
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> W oddali odcinek między WD-11 a E-12.
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> Dziobaki pracują.
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> Widok na E-13 w kierunku południa.
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> I z drugiej strony w kierunku północy.
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> WD-14 zaczeli robic nasyp.
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> Szalunek pod WD-14.
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> KP-15.


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## ChrisZwolle

The southernmost part of A1 is now visible in Google Nerd









The following pics are a best of from the construction. credits to Timmy2000


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## ChrisZwolle

20-9-2009:









24-9-2009:









:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:


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## LMB

ChrisZwolle said:


> But I don't mind my tax euros coming into good use in Poland, i.e. motorways.


Good, because it wasn't mean as a troll post. Rather a thank-you reminder. :cheers:


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## bleetz

Do they normally build roads during winter too, or will they pause until spring?


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## japan

bleetz said:


> Do they normally build roads during winter too, or will they pause until spring?


They normally do unless it gets too cold and/or snowy.


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## bleetz

I wonder what the limit is because it will certainly be below zero for most of the winter in Poland. Can they work in such temperatures? Does it not affect the durability of the asphalt, etc. (expansion/contraction due to temperature differences)?


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## ChrisZwolle

Usually, asphalt cannot be poured in rain or during sub-zero temperatures. However, they have invented stuff like "cold asphalt" which can also be poured at lower temperatures, however, I don't know if it can be done in Polish winters, which tend to be cold. Temperatures below -20 can occur. 

I thought the general winter break was from december 15th through march 15th...


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## Mateusz

Well we had also winter in April and Novermber as well 

I think in case of concrete they use some kind of heaters


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## kalle_sg

ChrisZwolle said:


> I thought the general winter break was from december 15th through march 15th...


And you were right - that's how it is according to all deals between GDDKiA and building companies. However, the companies keep working as long, as the weather conditions allow them. This way they make sure there won't be any delays.


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## ChrisZwolle

So, with these "24 or 36 months" construction time, 2 times 3 months winter break are included in that?


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## bleetz

They could still cut trees in planned road paths during winter!


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## kalle_sg

ChrisZwolle said:


> So, with these "24 or 36 months" construction time, 2 times 3 months winter break are included in that?


AFAIK, in deals like that you have to remember, that one year is only 9 months, and not 12 

So for instance, if construction time is 24 months, beginning April 2010, then it ends October 2012. The company is provided with 24 "construction months" and none of those three during wintertime is counted as "construction month".


----------



## Andrzej_3598

*A2 Stryków-Konotopa section*

All the contracts (Design/Build) for A2 Stryków - Konotopa section will be signed on 2009-09-28 13:30. Event will take place in Ministry of Infrastructure office.

Announcement (in Polish) you may find here:

http://www.mi.gov.pl/2-482be1a920074-1791776-p_1.htm

:cheers:


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## Mateusz

Our minister Grabarczyk is quite determined to get so many projects forward. Good stuff


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## bleetz

Will this complete the Warsaw - Lodz section?


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## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, by May 2012.


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## bleetz

Wow, this is _very_ ambitious! What about the section border-Poznan? Is that scheduled to be completed by 2012 too?


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## Warsawbynight

bleetz said:


> Wow, this is _very_ ambitious! What about the section border-Poznan? Is that scheduled to be completed by 2012 too?


Obviously yes! The whole motorway from german border to Warsaw must be completed for EURO 2012.


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## Chris80678

Any news or updates on when we can expect the A4 from Wieliczka to Szarów to be completed and opened for use? 
The construction of this short section of motorway has gone on far too long hno:


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## Timon91

That section seems to be one of the very few sections that is giving problems at the moment.


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## PLH

Yeah, that's true. Good that the company building it (Dragados) has won only few tenders by now.

*@Chris80678*

The length of a road des not matter at all - it can be both 10 or 100 kms ling and the construction time will be always around 2 years. This is because you have to keep the same price for 1 km.


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## Chris80678

So its unlikely the A4 from Wieliczka to Szarów will be open and ready for use by the end of this year? 
It is good that the tendering process for continuing the A4 to Rzeszów has speeded up considerably so that work on ensuring that at least Rzeszów and
Tarnów are conneted to the motorway network can start more quickly
Rzeszów is probably the most important on the A4 east of Kraków so the sooner the two places are connected by motorway the better


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## ChrisZwolle

The southern bypass of Poznan will be toll free as S5 and S11 will be routed across it.


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## maciekph

Chris80678 said:


> So its unlikely the A4 from Wieliczka to Szarów will be open and ready for use by the end of this year?


It's about to be opened by the end of October as far as I know.:cheers:
Bunch of pictures from A4 Polish forum(same shown above):
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=126655&page=161

But maybe it's kind of gossip :nuts:


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## Mateusz

So yes today 3 contrats were signed for A2 Łódź-Warszawa, 2 more to go


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## Warsawbynight

Mateusz said:


> So yes today 3 contrats were signed for A2 Łódź-Warszawa, 2 more to go


Why 3? No, all 5 contracts for A2 has been signed today! The is one contestation for A section from Hermann Kirchner (ahh those Germans!!) - all other sections from B to E are already safe! :cheers:


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## Mateusz

Huh, ok

So section A still can be under protest from contractors or something ?


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## Warsawbynight

Mateusz said:


> Huh, ok
> 
> So section A still can be under protest from contractors or something ?


Yes, exactly, protest from Germans (Hermann Kirchner), but GDDKIA had an agreement to sign the contract before this issue will be solved. That's why contracts for all 5 sections has been signed! Really a historical day for polish motorways!


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## Chris80678

maciekph said:


> It's about to be opened by the end of October as far as I know.:cheers:
> Bunch of pictures from A4 Polish forum(same shown above):
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=126655&page=161
> 
> But maybe it's kind of gossip :nuts:


Well I hope that the gossip is right and that the A4 between 
Wieliczka and Szarów will be opened for use at the end of October 
as it will rescue Wieliczka and the villages on the E40 between
Wieliczka and the junction with nr 75 will no longer suffer from 
heavy traffic. The motorway looks more or less complete with only a few parts left to surface and lines painting as all of the viaducts look to be finished


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## maciekph

Chris80678 said:


> Well I hope that the gossip is right and that the A4 between
> Wieliczka and Szarów will be opened for use at the end of October
> as it will rescue Wieliczka and the villages on the E40 between
> Wieliczka and the junction with nr 75 will no longer suffer from
> heavy traffic. The motorway looks more or less complete with only a few parts left to surface and lines painting as all of the viaducts look to be finished


Indeed. But it depends on the quality of works that Dragados performed. If the quality is poor that fixes may be needed. Anyway we have to wait and hopefully see A4 ready by the end of October.
Keep the fingers crossed


----------



## chit

You are more advanced in this sector of building motorways.
I am verry disapointed about motorways building here in Romania.Perhaps I will be a disfunctional driver( and at the age of 100years) when in Romania will be 2000km of motorways in good conditions.
The photo looks nice.
What is number of finished kms motorways in Poland at the end of 2009?
Your country is a bit larger than Romania so, for a good speed of travel is sufficient arround 2000km or 3000km?
How many motorways are free of tax(without pay), and how many are with tax(neccesary to pay for travel)?


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## Andrzej_3598

chit said:


> You are more advanced in this sector of building motorways.
> I am verry disapointed about motorways building here in Romania.Perhaps I will be a disfunctional driver( and at the age of 100years) when in Romania will be 2000km of motorways in good conditions.
> The photo looks nice.
> What is number of finished kms motorways in Poland at the end of 2009?
> Your country is a bit larger than Romania so, for a good speed of travel is sufficient arround 2000km or 3000km?
> How many motorways are free of tax(without pay), and how many are with tax(neccesary to pay for travel)?


Actually we have 812 km of A class (motorways), 306 km S class 2x2 profile(expressways), 181km S class 1x2 profile (expressways half profile). This year ca 100km more will be finished. Real change will be around end of 2011 and 2012 when roads for which contracts have be signed this year will be ready.

And definitelly we need more roads.

In principle you have to pay for all A class roads, depends on distance you travel, but as not all of the sections have proper infrastructure yet, around 2/3 of 812km all toll free at the mopment.


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## Xmaster

^^ Don't mix terminology  Highways are just main roads. In Poland's case motorways are A class roads and S class roads should be called expressways, not motorways, as you wrote


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## ChrisZwolle

Highways = any public road (A, S, DK, DW etc)
motorway = A road + 2x2 modern S road
expressway = substandard 2x2 and 1x2 S roads.


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## Mateusz

This numbers seem to be high

This shows how big are our needs in terms of road building


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## Andrzej_3598

Mateusz said:


> This numbers seem to be high
> 
> This shows how big are our needs in terms of road building


I took if from statistics Thread of FPW:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=345003

Indeed - we need more roads in PL


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## bebe.2006

How about this list:

list by:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=391696&page=14



*I. Existed dual carriageway roads in Poland:*


Month ............ A 2x2 ....... S 2x2 ....... GP 2x2* ... DK/DW 2x2** ................ Together


01-2006 .......... 570 .......... 180 .......... 113 .......... 1019 ............................ 1882
05-2006 .......... 570 .......... 180 .......... 113 .......... 1019 ............................ 1882
09-2006 .......... 674 .......... 183 .......... 113 .......... 1010 ............................ 1980

01-2007 .......... 741 .......... 208 .......... 117 .......... 1011 ............................ 2067
05-2007 .......... 741 .......... 208 .......... 119 .......... 1011 ............................ 2069
09-2007 .......... 741 .......... 208 .......... 121 .......... 1021 ............................ 2091

01-2008 .......... 765 .......... 238 .......... 122 .......... 1025 ............................ 2150
05-2008 .......... 765 .......... 250 .......... 122 .......... 1023 ............................ 2160
09-2008 .......... 765 .......... 270 .......... 131 .......... 1027 ............................ 2193

01-2009 .......... 831 .......... 293 .......... 136 .......... 1034 ............................ 2294
05-2009 .......... 831 .......... 293 .......... 136 .......... 1034 ............................ 2294
09-2009 .......... 881 .......... 329 .......... 129 .......... 1034 ............................ 2373


Together grade-separated dual carriageway roads: 1339 km
_________________________________________________________________________

* - dual carriageway GP-class roads with grade-separated junctions
** - dual carriageway roads with at-grade junctions


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## Mateusz

We need well over 10k tbh. Somewhen in the middle of XXI century we will reach it


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## Timon91

When will you reach the 1000 km A-roads? That can't be too long.


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## michael_siberia

^^

2012. source


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## PLH

07.2012 with 1011,3 km


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## ChrisZwolle

Imo, due to the lack of difference between A and S-roads (not only in Poland), the main focus on A-roads is not justified anymore. 2x2 S-roads are as good as A-roads, most people wouldn't even be able to tell the difference, only pro's and road enthusiasts.


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## ChrisZwolle

The DK7 

Too bad they won't accelerate the construction of this section, more so because they have more funding available due to other projects are constructed significantly under budget, as stated earlier.

But I guess the A2-A1 connection isn't too bad from Warszawa to Gdansk.


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## Mateusz

S7 is actually quite popular expressway and GDDKiA does quite a lot about it


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, but mostly south of Warszawa, it seems. I haven't seen any long sections between Warszawa and Gdansk going U/C soon.


----------



## PLH

True, now there are only 2 sections U/C, 18 and 15 km. In no more than 6 months a 36 km long section will follow and a 29 km one in less than a year.


----------



## Biesiada

the surface is ok. but this road is too narrow for such an enormous traffic, and it's used by drivers from northern poland (GD/GA registration plates) who together with lithuanians and latvians are the most insane/dangerous drivers in whole europe.


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## japan

^^I wouldn't generalize if I were you.


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## PLH

Let me guess - Biesiada is from Warsaw, right? 

But please, no city vs. city wars again.


----------



## Gosc Niedzielny

A4 Krakow - Szarow



Kronos KBC said:


> *węzeł "Wielicka"
> kwiecień 2007*
> 
> 
> Trzy zdjęcia zrobione dzisiaj
> *fotki w szerszym formacie*
> 
> 
> *PPO Staniątki*
> 
> 
> *węzeł Szarów*
> 
> 
> :rofl:


----------



## Sponsor

*A* .............. 832,6 ...... 310,3 
*S 2x2* ....... 340,4 ...... 258,8
*S 1x2* ....... 228,2 ...... 33,7
______________________
................ 1401,2 .... 602,8
______________________
.........................*2004 km*


+ 1093 km (tenders in progress)


:banana:


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## ufonut

S5 in Bydgoszcz



spinacz said:


> Z wczoraj tj. z 30.10.2009
> 
> Węzeł B.Błota widok na wschód.
> 
> 
> Za węzłęm widać WD9 z którego zdjęcia za chwilę.
> 
> 
> Widok z WD9 na węzeł B.Błota. Widok na zachód.
> 
> 
> Zbliżenie.
> 
> 
> A teraz wschód.
> 
> 
> I lekkie zbliżenie.
> 
> 
> A teraz przyszły MOP.
> 
> 
> To wszystko, pozdrawiam.


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## Xmaster

Biesiada said:


> the surface is ok. but this road is too narrow for such an enormous traffic, and it's used by drivers from northern poland (GD/GA registration plates) who together with lithuanians and latvians are the most insane/dangerous drivers in whole europe.


Save your words and chill down


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice progress on the road furniture around Bydgoszcz. Last time I saw pics, there was nothing more than two carriageways of asphalt. Unfortunately, this part of S5 is only like 10 km long.


----------



## Gosc Niedzielny

ChrisZwolle said:


> Why is Kraków-North specifically signed here, and not only "Kraków"?
> 
> 
> I assume Kraków-South will be scrapped here soon? It makes no sense to use DK4 to Kraków-South while there is a perfectly fine A4. Or is it for shunpikers who want to avoid tolls (like they sign in France)?


"Krakow" is here as a city. Krakow-PN and Krakow-PD are names of exits.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A4 Szarów - Tarnów

Tenders:


Patryjota said:


> * Szarów - Brzesko km 455+900 – 479+000*
> 
> Map: http://www.krakow.gddkia.gov.pl/img/orient__A4_odcIIIiIV.pdf
> 
> Budget 1 574,12 mln PLN
> 
> *1 POLIMEX-MOSTOSTAL & DOPRASTAV (SK) & Metrostav (CZ) 778 962 666,49*
> 2 DRAGADOS (E) 815 459 227,66
> 3 Strabag & HERMANN KIRCHNER Polska & HERMANN KIRCHNER (D) & DYWIDAG BAU 895 729 103,05
> 4 MSF (P) & MSF Polska & PUT Intercor & Mosty Łodź 951 320 047,87
> 5 BUDIMEX DROMEX & MOTA-ENGIL POLSKA & MOTA-ENGIL (P) & Mostostal Warszawa S.A. 959 485 599,88
> 6 DROGBUD & Bogl a Krysl (CZ) & Bogl a Krysl (PL) & Vahostav (SK) & POLDIM & IMB-Podbeskidzie & WAKOZ 969 887 585,46
> 7 Alpine Bau (A) & Alpine (CZ) & Alpine (PL) & ABM SOLID 995 041 427,88
> 
> 
> *Brzesko - Wierzchosławice 479+000 – 499+800*
> 
> Map: http://www.krakow.gddkia.gov.pl/img/orient_A4_odcV.pdf
> 
> Budget 1 309,39 mln PLN
> 
> *1 NDI & SB GRANIT(MAC) 622.501.701,12*
> 2 DRAGADOS (E) 651.398.478,38
> 3 Poldim & BOGL A KRYSL (CZ) & Bogl & Krysl (PL) & Vahostav (SK) & Drogbud & IMB Podbeskidzie & WAKOZ 692.712.478,40
> 4 POLIMEX-MOSTOSTAL & DOPRASTAV (SK) & Metrostav(CZ) 729.928.128,01
> 5 MSF (P) & MSF (PL) & PUT Intercor & Mosty Łodź 737.773.262,97
> 6 HERMANN KIRCHNER (PL) & HERMANN KIRCHNER (D) & STRABAG (PL) & DYWIDAG BAU (D) 748.194.164,44
> 7 MOTA-ENGIL (PL) & MOTA-ENGIL (P) & Budimex Dromex & Mostostal Warszawa 842.714.097,37
> 8 Alpine (CZ) & Alpine Bau (A) Alpine (PL) & ABM SOLID 852.149.721,93
> 9 J&P AVAX (GR) 876.928.819,70
> 
> *Wierzchosławice - Krzyż 499+800 – 512+800*
> 
> Map: http://www.krakow.gddkia.gov.pl/img/orient_A4_odcVI.pdf
> 
> budget 1.148.004.947,38 zł
> 
> *1 Dragados (E) 542 800 853,04*
> 2 Bogl a Krysl (CZ) & Bogl & Krysl (PL) & Vahostav (SK) & Drogbud & Poldim & IMB Podbeskidzie & WAKOZ 548 682 219,71
> 3 Polimex-Mostostal & Doprastav (SK) & Metrostav (CZ) 570 438 531,26
> 4 Strabag (PL) & Hermann Kirchner (PL) & Hermann Kirchner (D) & Dywidag Bau (D) 573 667 678,42
> 5 NDI & SB Granit (MAC) 598 306 650,13
> 6 Mota-Engil (PL) & Mota-Engil (P) & Mosty Łódź & PUT Intercor 616 801 359,21
> 7 Alpine Bau (A) & Alpine (CZ) & Alpine (PL) & ABM Solid 646 033 594,03


Almost € 500 million savings if all of the cheapest tenders are chosen. :cheers:

I edited the post a bit


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## michal_OMB

it is no motorway but important route for GOP/Silesia 



gpj70 said:


> Jako że cisza w temacie, by nie spadł za nisko kilka zdjęć z 1.11.2009r.
> 
> idziemy tradycyjnie od strony Rudy Śl.
> 
> 
> przerwa w asfalcie w miejscu starego szybu
> 
> 
> i dalej
> 
> 
> 
> 
> przybyło asfaltu w rejonie wjadu na węzeł
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cdn


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Drogowa Trasa Średnicowa?


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## Mateusz

Yes, another importan corridor for Silesian metropoly


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## Xmaster

^^ What is the number of this stretch and where is it located?


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## ChrisZwolle

It's an urban expressway, partially with the numbers DK79 and DW902, from Katowice to Zabrze, more or less parallel to A4.

http://www.dts-sa.pl/


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

And also an interesting example of a special purpouse company, set up only for this road project in early 90'. Today its a public (non-listed) company, shares are owned by regional, local authorities as well as private investors.

Rumours say, that similar company might be created for construction of S19.


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## PLH

CZ/SK/PL trip including a few border crossings and D3/S69 

http://picasaweb.google.com/przemo63/Wycieczka1Listopad2009?feat=directlink#


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## ChrisZwolle

Nice pics 

Are S69 and D3 supposed to be a 2+1 road in the future too? I would've expected a motorway there, as it's the shortest connection between Silesia City and Wien/Bratislava/Budapest and southeastern Europe.


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## Qwert

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nice pics
> 
> Are S69 and D3 supposed to be a 2+1 road in the future too? I would've expected a motorway there, as it's the shortest connection between Silesia City and Wien/Bratislava/Budapest and southeastern Europe.


I think majority of traffic between Katowice and Žilina uses E75: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...=49.79545,18.918457&spn=1.280094,2.469177&z=9

This will change when Slovaks and Poles manage to built proper connection D3-S69 (present one looks pretty badhno. But, 2x1 would be enough there, traffic volumes at cross-border sections aren't big enough for 2x2. Both D3 and S69 will have also 2x2 sections, but further from the border. In case of D3 only last ~15 km before the border will be 2x1


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## Sponsor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Are S69 and D3 supposed to be a 2+1 road in the future too? I would've expected a motorway there


Generally 1+1 with extensions to 2+1 on uphills. Motorway is not necessary there due to low traffic volume. Both sides are building current road with a reserve for second carriageway so in the future it could be real motorway (SK) and 2x2 expressway (PL).


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## ABRob

The first concrete for A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl!???




After what? 4, 5, 6 month?


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## ChrisZwolle

I think this is a preparatory layer of concrete. It doesn't seem like the final layer yet, but it's fast, yes. But remember the sand bed has been in place for years, and the trees have been cut years ago. That speeds up the progress significantly. Also, this area is sparsely populated with not a lot of roads, so they don't need to change the underground infrastructure a lot, nor build a lot of overpasses.


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## PLH

This is only the first layer - the so called thin concrete. 

Chris is right - sections near Nowy Tomyśl (eastern end of the section) are all woods and maybe one rural road for 15 kms.


----------



## ufonut

There will also be a "test" section where they will pour concrete and test its properties etc.


----------



## Mateusz

Great, I love the progress, Poland the bigghest construction site of Europe !


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Meanwhile, S3 from Gorzów Wielkopolski to Zielona Góra (Sulechów) won't open before Euro2012 due to an abundance of bids for the tenders (66!) and environmental issues.

But I don't see S3 as a top priority, I really hope they manage to open A2 and S2 to Warszawa. What are the chances of S2 being opened in 2012? As far as I know, they're only working on a short section with S79 near the airport.


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## Mateusz

What ? 66 tender for this section ? Or this is including tenders for some kind of road equipment, rest areas etc ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ 66 bids for the tenders, sorry 



> Ze względu na to, że na budowę lubuskich odcinków S-trójki mamy już 66 ofert z całego świata,


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ 66 bids for the tenders, sorry


Chris, do you speak Polish or do you have a Polish speaking assistant browsing Polish threads for you?
A woman?


----------



## Czas na Żywiec

geogregor said:


> Chris, do you speak Polish or do you have a Polish speaking assistant browsing Polish threads for you?
> A woman?


I'm guessing Google Translate or something similar.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

geogregor said:


> Chris, do you speak Polish or do you have a Polish speaking assistant browsing Polish threads for you?
> A woman?


No, not a (Polish) woman unfortunately 

No, I know the most important words in Polish concerning road development, and I check FPW every day for news  If there is a long news message, I throw Google Translate in


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some nice pics of DK16 in northern Poland, between Iława and Ostróda



Slodi said:


>





Slodi said:


>





Slodi said:


> That's all! :hi:


----------



## LtBk

I recently read on Wiki that Poland is building a motorway ring around Warsaw. Any news on that?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

LtBk said:


> I recently read on Wiki that Poland is building a motorway ring around Warsaw. Any news on that?


It is composed of several S-roads;

S2 - southern beltway
S7/S8 - northern/western beltway
S17 - eastern beltway

S7/S8 is more or less under construction. S2 is only U/C for a small section near the airport with S79, but I believe S2 should be U/C next year. I think S17 will take a little longer to begin construction. 

Besides that, there is also a smaller ring road around the central parts of Warszawa, but I don't think those are all grade-separated (Klasy GP).


----------



## PLH

LtBk said:


> I recently read on Wiki that Poland is building a motorway ring around Warsaw. Any news on that?


green - existing
red - U/C
pink - soon U/C (public - private partnership / design&build tenders signed)
yellow/orange - tender
blue - a bit more than soon U/C  aka environmental location

This map is slightly outdated - section of A4 right by the UA border was signed today. (upgrade from orange to pink)


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Besides that, there is also a smaller ring road around the central parts of Warszawa, but I don't think those are all grade-separated (Klasy GP).


Obwodnica Śródmieścia/Central district bypass (GP-class):
completed: 1/4 (Trasa Łazienkowska, south + Starzyńskiego street, north-east), 
exististing, awaiting upgrade: 1/2 without grade separation (Towarowa, Okopowa, Raszyńska streets, north & west), 
planned: 1/4 planned (east). 
Expected changes: nothing in next 5 years.

Obwodnica Miejska/City bypass (GP-class):
completed - 2/7 (Trasa Siekierkowska, south-east)
under construction - 1/7 (Most Północny/Northern Bridge)
planned: 4/7 (Trasa Olszynki Grochowskiej on the east, Trasa NS on the west)
Expected changes: Northern Brigde finished 2011/2012 + short extension towards west 2012/2013.

Obwodnica ekspresowa/Expressway bypass (S-class):
completed (S-class): 0
completed (GP-class, which is currently upgraded to S-class): 1/8 (S8 Trasa Toruńska, north-east)
completed (GP-class, that expects S-class upgrade): 1/8 (S8 Trasa AK section: Powązkowska - Modlińska, won't begin before Northern Bridge is finished)
under construction: 2/8 (S8 Trasa AK section: Konotopa - Powązkowska, north & S79/S2 section: Marynarska - Lotnisko - Puławska connector ,south)
tender announced: 1/8 (S2 Southern Bypass section: Konotopa - Lotnisko, south-west)
planned: 3/8 (S17 Eastern Bypass, S2 Southern Bypass section: Puławska - Lubelska, south-east)

Graphic: http://siskom.waw.pl/mapy/mapa-standia.html

Please click on the line/polygon to see newest announcments concerning each project.

(note: normal urban streets - G,Z-class - also included; most highways in Mazovian Region included, English translation available via Google Translate)

General key to the map:
- green: completed
- red: under construction
- orange: tender procedure under way
- blue: something is going on (environmental/technical/feasibility procedure under way
- violet: nothing is happening / status unknown / feasibility analysis under way

Important note: some roads might exist and be marked not-green, because they will be upgraded.

The map might be interesting, as it shows the maim problem o road construction in Warsaw metro area. Photos are from this spring.

Reserved areas for roads and highways are kept safe, but no one can ban building around them. Later new home owners are "surprised".

95% of these plans were drafted in early 70'. Before SISKOM was created, these plans were usually kept out of public view. Now there are available on web. No one can say that "they didn't know".


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## ChrisZwolle

Jakub Warszauer said:


> Graphic: http://siskom.waw.pl/mapy/mapa-standia.html


Very useful! There should be a nationwide map


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Very useful! There should be a nationwide map


I'd have to be paid for it. 

It takes a lot of time to keep it up to date.


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## Mateusz

On going expanstion of Łopuszańska crossing, that's where S7 will end in Warsaw city itself.


----------



## PLH

From today, A4 is the second important motoway after A1 to be whole during tender procedure or U/C


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Also Tarnów - Rzeszów?


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## X236K

How's the status of A1 CZ border - A4? Delayed as we are?


----------



## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> Also Tarnów - Rzeszów?


Since a few months ? 



X236K said:


> How's the status of A1 CZ border - A4? Delayed as we are?


Sośnica interchange won't open this year, but if you ask if the whole section won't be ready till 2012, then no, it will be.

-----

Tomorrow first concrete on A2


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## ChrisZwolle

PLH said:


> Since a few months ?


Oh, I didn't know 

The activity in that topic on FPW is very low...


----------



## PLH

Yuo should be checking Statistics thread more often.

A2:


Rusonaldo said:


>


----------



## jtybinka

PLH said:


> Since a few months ?
> 
> 
> 
> Sośnica interchange won't open this year, but if you ask if the whole section won't be ready till 2012, then no, it will be.


he asks about the section from A4 to Czech border - that should be ready next year 2010


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## jtybinka

X236K said:


> How's the status of A1 CZ border - A4? Delayed as we are?


Why delayed - I was in Bohumin yesterday and bridges are almost ready , the works look to be very advanced

PS
as I said Polish part of A1 from A4 to Czech border - probably 2010


----------



## timmy2000

^^ to be precise, fall 2010


----------



## X236K

jtybinka said:


> Why delayed - I was in Bohumin yesterday and bridges are almost ready , the works look to be very advanced
> 
> PS
> as I said Polish part of A1 from A4 to Czech border - probably 2010


Mmmm... I've just checked some local sources and the reality is even worse:

D1	47092 Bohumín – hranice s Polskem	6,1 km	8. 4. 2008	*2011/2012*


----------



## geogregor

X236K said:


> Mmmm... I've just checked some local sources and the reality is even worse:
> 
> D1	47092 Bohumín – hranice s Polskem	6,1 km	8. 4. 2008	*2011/2012*


What the hell takes them so long?
It is only 6.1 km of flat terrain. hno:


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## ChrisZwolle

2008 - 2009 - 2010 - 2011 - 2012

Yeah, that's 4 - 5 years of construction, almost double the Polish 2 - 2.5 years construction time.


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## PLH

I heard it's due to lack of money.


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## Sponsor

geogregor said:


> What the hell takes them so long?
> It is only 6.1 km of flat terrain. hno:


If it was so easy it would be completed by now, wdn't it?


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## Czas na Żywiec

Maybe they have more important routes to complete before this one?


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## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, like D8 near Ústí nad Labem, the R1 Praha ring road and R35 Turnov - Olomouc.


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## X236K

PLH said:


> I heard it's due to lack of money.


You got the point! kay:

Any idea about the traffic expectations for this border stretch?


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## Czas na Żywiec

geogregor said:


> Gorzyczki
> I've lived so close but I've never been there. Have to go some day when I visit my parents. :nuts:


My apologies. I'm from near Zakopane and as everyone knows, we don't like usuing sz and cz.


----------



## maciekph

X236K said:


> ^^ is this the A1 strech from Gliwice to Ostrava??


As far as I know - yes. :banana:


----------



## geogregor

Czas na Żywiec;46230769 said:


> My apologies. I'm from near Zakopane and as everyone knows, we don't like usuing sz and cz.


I know, my mother comes originally from there


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## PLH

Every ex-Soviet block country wants to have its own map, so do we


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## ChrisZwolle

S3 near Zielona Gora and S22 aren't motorways. They're 1x2.


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## PLH

Oh, OK, but this is A ans S map.


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## Mateusz

On 1989 one you forgot about Prądy-Przylesie motorway


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## bebe.2006

A2 Łódź - Warszawa U/C since 1979 (?)

Sorry for lack of translation. I try to do it later.




eljoth said:


> W ramach odświeżania wątku pragnę przedstawić Wam pożegnalno-archiwizacyjną przejażdżkę Olimpijką, którą odbyłem wraz kolegą 10 października br. Zapraszam do oglądania!
> 
> Najbliżej Warszawy powstał most na rzece Pisia Tuczna.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> Widok w kierunku stolicy. Warto wspomnieć, że wszystkie obiekty inżynierskie powstałe w ciągu Olimpijki trzymają standardy naszych współczesnych autostrad, czyli 2x3,75m + 3m. Sprawdzone organoleptycznie.
> 
> Słynna już świątynia Słońca, czyli 42 filary wiaduktu nad CMK bis w Baranowie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Most na rzece Czarna Struga k/Holendrów Baranowskich.
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> 
> Jazda "pod prąd" przyszłą południową jezdnią A2, okolice Holendrów Baranowskich.
> 
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> 
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> 
> Ruiny gospodarstwa w pasie przyszłej autostady. Może przyszły MOP?
> 
> 
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> 
> I znów jazda "pod prąd" południową jezdnią. Na horyzoncie most na rzece Pisia Gągolina.
> 
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> Wspomniany wyżej most na Pisi Gągolinie.
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> Przyszły węzeł "Wiskitki". Praca przy budowie obwodnicy Żyrardowa w ciągu DK50 właśnie się rozkręca.
> 
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> Widok w kierunku Poznania.
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> Rzekę Suchą Nidę k/Starowiskitek można (na razie) pokonać tylko brodem.
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> Wiadukt w Hipolitowie.
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> I Jeep kolegi w Hipolitowie.
> 
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> Okolice Miedniewic. Z tego gospodarstwa nie będzie MOPu - stoi dokładnie w miejscu przyszłych jezdni. Widok w kierunku Lizbony.
> 
> 
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> I widok w kierunku Władywostoku.
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> Trochę ekologii. Pas autostradowy w okolicach Miedniewic.
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> Most na rzece Sucha.
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> Przepust pod pasem autostradowym w okolicach Kamionki.
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> Wiadukt w Nowej Wsi.
> 
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> Widok na pas autostradowy w kierunku Poznania. Okolice Nowej Wsi.
> 
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> Dwujezdniowa droga gruntowa w Puszczy Bolimowskiej.
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> Gdzieniegdzie pozostały ślady nawierzchni bitumicznej.
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> Słynny 700-metrowy fragment południowej jezdni Olimpijki na skraju Puszczy Bolimowskiej. Podobnie jak wszystkie obiekty inżynierskie, odpowiada parametrom współczesnych autostrad. Chodzi oczywiście o wymiary, a nie wykonanie.
> 
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> Most dla ruchu lokalnego na rzece Rawka w Bolimowie.
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> Most autostradowy w Bolimowie (też słynny).
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> Ciekawostka: z takich samych prefabrykatów zbudowany został wiadukt na ul. Surowieckiego na Ursynowie, przy Parku im. Romana Kozłowskiego (okolice Kopy Cwila).
> 
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> Przyczółki mostu w Piaskach.
> 
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> Tym sposobem wypełniłem swój obowiązek obywatelski i zarejestrowałem dla potomnym ginące pamiątki po ósmej potędze świata tow. Edwarda Gierka. Mam nadzieję, że żadnej nie pominąłem.
> 
> Na koniec, w ramach bonusu, jeszcze jeden niezrealizowany projekt powiązany z Olimpijką - przyczółki niedokończonego wiaduktu pod CMK bis w Budach Zosinych k/Jaktorowa.


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## kalle_sg

bebe.2006 said:


> A2 Łódź - Warszawa U/C since 1979 (?)


So-called _Olimpijka_ (_Olympic Highway_), the planned predecessor of A2, was supposed to be open to traffic in 1980, as a connection from Berlin to Moscow via Warsaw. The main reason were the Olympic Games, held in 1980 in Moscow. It was never completed, due to lack of (financial) resources.


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## Mateusz

Yeah and last strecth of Wrzesnia-Konin motorway was opened in 1989... 9 years after Olympics in Moscow


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## michal_OMB

PLH said:


> Every ex-Soviet block country wants to have its own map, so do we


do thing for 2012


----------



## Mateusz

I tried to make one accrding to our current FPW stats up to 2012 period


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## PLH

I noticed a mistake on my map - A1 Grudziądz - Toruń won't be ready by 2010.


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## Mateusz

Nah, it's good that it will be ready before Euro as well. To be honest, Euro 2016 would be more suitable because then we would have much more times for road construction and updgrades


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## bleetz

When is the conversion to 2x2 of the Warsaw-Bialystok section planned to be finished?


----------



## Mateusz

Also there is planned, S61 between Ostrów Mazowiecka and Suwałki, so Via Baltica


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I goes phase by phase. Right now a fair amount of 2x2 bypasses have been constructed, with more in the pipeline. The next job is to connect those bypasses with 2x2 sections as well.


----------



## Mateusz

Bypass of Zambrów is u/c just now I think


----------



## michal_OMB

Mateusz said:


> I tried to make one accrding to our current FPW stats up to 2012 period


where A1 Toruń-Stryków,A4 Kraków-Rzeszów


----------



## Mateusz

Nill in stats for 2012 yet though, I only put confirmed stuff


----------



## ufonut

S5 (Bydgoszcz) by Michal Ch.






































S10 Szczecin - Stargard Bypass by Jacyk






































S3 Szczecin - Gorzow Wielkopolski by Jacyk


----------



## Mateusz

Looks like ready to go, hopefully open by end of this year


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I hope so, because I want to make a roadtrip to Zachodniopomorskie in April 2010.


----------



## michael_siberia

^^

Unfortunately, S3 Szczecin-Gorzów will not be opened this year, but rather in August 2010 (optimistic).


----------



## Mateusz

Ahhh ready sections will have to wait for whole road to get opened...


----------



## Sylver

Are there any autostradas/highways under construction in the Podlaskie and Warmian-Mazurian Voivodeships? Any news of the Via Baltica road?


----------



## PLH

Sure they are. Check this:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=345003&page=136
and this:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=984828


----------



## Mateusz

Apparently not much going on/planned there comparing to other regions of Poland


----------



## bebe.2006

A new tiny section of S11 will be opend on 26th November: bypass of the town Ostrów Wielkopolski. At first only the north part (blue one on the map below), only 1 carriageway.



michael_siberia said:


>


Fotos:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=430201&page=55

for example:


----------



## Mateusz

Not much of a bypass in reality but still good


----------



## 1000city

Some nice shots of fully finished, upgraded Murckowska Interchange in Katowice, Silesia Metro. The one I've mentioned in this post in October http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=44795728&postcount=3550





















































































































































































I love this city


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## Mateusz

Signs are rather horrid there  Interchange itself looks great


----------



## Chris80678

Good news about the opening of the S11 bypass for Ostrów Wielkopolski :banana: and that room has been left for an extra lane if its needed in the future. 
When is the second half of the bypass going to be built or opened? 
Drivers will still have to go throuh the town anyway once they come off the new stretch of bypass so really it won't solve the traffic problem in
Ostrów Wielkopolski bash:


----------



## jan ryba

A1 Gorzyczki border crossing CS PL

I was quite suprised to learn that this month the Czechs decided to delay till 2012 the construction of their 6,3 km D1 section from Bohumin towards the Polish border at Gorzyczki where the Poles will finish their respective section of A1 motorway on time, as planned in 2010. It will cause for two years a lot of problems. 

According to my information they could not obtain the EU funding within the so-called COHESION FUND and this section which is probably 50% finished will stay idle for at least two years blocking the traffic and flow of goods. I think that their bureacrats are to be blamed for this scandal.

Who is standing behind this unexpected and unilateral decision on the Czech side?


----------



## michael_siberia

Chris80678 said:


> Good news about the opening of the S11 bypass for Ostrów Wielkopolski :banana: and that room has been left for an extra lane if its needed in the future.


First section of this bypass was opened today:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=46826603&postcount=788

:banana:



Chris80678 said:


> When is the second half of the bypass going to be built or opened?


Tender for the other section was announced 30th October:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=45430783&postcount=766


----------



## bebe.2006

One picture of today opened S11:
http://www.fotosik.pl/pokaz_obrazek/pelny/c6cff50c94cf6d10.html


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## Chris80678

It seems strange to see the S11 just come to an abrupt end like that, what with the concrete just ending and the sand taking over - the sooner it is extended to the southern outskirts of Ostrów Wlkp the better :cheers:


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## bebe.2006

purple = expressways (single carriageway S 1x2)
blue = expressways (dual carriageway S 2x2)
green = motorways (A)
red = all dual cariaggeways together (A + S 2x2)
black = the whole stuff (A + S 2x2 + S 1x2)



bebe.2006 said:


> *by toonczyk*
> 
> 1. Under construction:
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> 2. Existing:
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> 3. Finished per years (* - the graphics contains only stretches with already signed contracts):


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## Mateusz

W don't know yet wether any road will be opened in 2013


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## michal_OMB

*[S10] bypass Stargard Szczeciński*



4gotten said:


> na obwodnicy Stargardu na razie wygląda to tak
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> i jeszcze kilka zdjęć z wczorajszej przejażdżki rowerowej (okolice węzła os. Pyrzyckie)
> podpory pod tablicę
> 
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> nie miałem racji pisząc ostatnio, że przykrywają rozłożone płachty materiału uprzednio zebraną ze skarpy glebą. Za dnia okazuje się, że
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> i jeszcze jedno ujęcie
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> czas zjeżdżać do domu
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> niestety nie wszystko wygląda idealnie. Na szczęście kiedy tam byłem ekipa była w trakcie naprawy tego i innych osuwisk przy tej łącznicy (Szczecin-Stargard)
> 
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> na łącznicy Szczecin-Stargard, Stargard-Bydgoszcz pojawiło się częściowo malowanie jezdni
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> a przy rondzie południowym pojawiły się nawet "pasy"
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> na zakończenie nowy znak z oznaczeniem S10 na Szczecin (osobiście będę z tej drogi często korzystał)
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> w niedzielę postaram się znowu przejechać rowerem po obwodnicy i dostarczyć nowo porcję zdjęć





JacYk said:


> *Fotki z dn.27.11.2009r.
> 
> CD
> Rejon WD-3.*
> 
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> Ponownie ujęcie z WD-3 w kierunku Szczecina, ale teraz z akcentem na potęgę nieba.
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> Obrót do tyłu i widok z WD-3 w kierunku Bydgoszczy (tu też chciałem zaakcentować piękne niebo, pozostałe zdjęcia będą jaśniejsze).
> 
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> Kierunek bez zmian, tylko widok po przesunięciu w prawo.
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> Pierwsze zbliżenie.
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> ...i kolejne zbliżenia.
> W dali widać WD-4 i WD-5. Po drodze jest jeszcze obiekt WE-2 (na linią kolejową Stargard-Poznań), a tuż za nimi estakada na Iną, czyli obiekt E-1 (bariery tych obiektów, są widoczne po lewej stronie zdjęcia).
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> Na zakończenie tej serii, ponownie potęga nieba nad obwodnicą.
> 
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> *cdn...* (ale jutro)





JacYk said:


> *Fotki z dn.27.11.2009r.
> 
> CD
> Rejon WD-5 (Węzeł Święte).*
> 
> Widok z północnego przyczółka WD-5 w kierunku Szczecina.
> 
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> 
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> Zbliżenie na łącznice, pierwsza z lewej to, końcówka dla relacji Stargard/Święte*→*Bydgoszcz. Dalej w tle (tam, gdzie pracujący sprzęt), jest zjazd z obwodnicy od strony Szczecina dla jadących w kierunku wsi Święte i Stargardu.
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> Przesunięcie na środek WD-5 i widok w kierunku Szczecina.
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> Zbliżenie na ekipę, montującą bariery energochłonne.
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> Dwa zbliżenia w stronę WD-4.
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> Daleko w tle słabo widoczny WD-3, a po drodze oczywiście estakada nad Iną (E-1) i dalej WE-2 (nad linią kolejową Stargard-Poznań).
> 
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> Widok z południowego przyczółka WD-3 na południe.
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> Przesunięcie na prawo i zbliżenie.
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> Zszedłem na dół, końcówka łącznicy dla relacji Szczecin*→*Święte/Stargard, oraz początek łącznicy dla relacji Święte/Stargard*→*Bydgoszcz.
> 
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> Przesunięcie w prawo i spojrzenie na w/w łącznie w kierunku Szczecina.
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> Zbliżenie.
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> Na zakończenie, jeszcze raz ekrany dźwiękochłonne w wersji kompletnej i niekompletnej.


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## michal_OMB

*[S5] bypass Bydgoszcz*



spinacz said:


> 26 listopada
> 
> Węzeł Białe Błota.
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> 
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> 
> WD-10. Strona wschodnia.
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> Strona zachodnia.
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> Widok od wschodu.
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> Na węźle.
> Widok na zachód.
> 
> Widok na południe.
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> 
> Widok na północ.
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> 
> Prosto - Bydgoszcz.


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## michal_OMB

*[S3] Szczecin - Gorzów Wielkopolski*

*foto by Jacyk*


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## michal_OMB

*[A8] bypass Wrocław*



jacek.gro said:


> *Budowa wiaduktu nad ul. Pełczyńską i nad linią kolejową, 25.11.2009*





jar_007 said:


> Mam dla was fotorelacje z odcinaka, w pobliżu stadionu. Nie spodziewajcie się fachowych opisów Zaczynamy od węzła.
> Tu będą łącznice po wschodniej stronie
> 
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> ... które następnie przechodzą na zachodnią tutaj
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> I idziemy w stronę Kosmonautów
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> ...dalej
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> patriotyczni budowlańcy?
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> obrót
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> rusztowania i filary estakady
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> firmy które oszczędzono
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> już przy ulicy
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> po drugiej stronie- wiercenia
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> a tu efekty pracy
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> a tu się pociąg załapał
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> schodzimy ulicą Warciańską
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> spojrzenie na stadion
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> tu zbrojenie podpory czy jak to tam nazwać
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> przerwa była
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> i się skończyła
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> dalej...
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> a teraz patrzcie jak się poświęcam "droga" od Noteckiej do Królewieckiej
> 
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> 
> i z Królewieckiej na północ. Dlaczego nie będzie zdjęcia na południe widać po moim cieniu-dawało po oczach
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> wchodzimy na osiedle przy Maślickiej. Takie tam teraz maja widoki
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> pod wiaduktem
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> i już za Maślicką
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> zoom w kierunku wytwórni segmentów nośnych
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> dziękuję za uwagę
> dodam jeszcze, że zdjęcia nie były robione w takiej kolejności jak je prezentuje. Ułożyłem, je tak by się lepiej oglądało.


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## michal_OMB

*[A1] Grudziądz-Toruń*



mareksaw_cg said:


> Most przez Wisłę w Grudziądzu, lewy brzeg, zdjęcia z 21 listopada.
> 
> Najpierw wytwórnia estakady. Północna nitka jest już wysuwana. Budowana jest także dalej konstrukcja hali wytwórni, zakładane są też elementy dachu hali:
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> Widok na wytwórnię estakady:
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> Powstająca hala nad wytwórnią:
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> 
> Widać też przygotowywanie zbrojenia kolejnych segmentów estakady:
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> Budowane rzędy podpór estakady:
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> Widok w osi estakady w stronę węzła Nowe Marzy:
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> I w stronę Grudziądza:
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> Przed wałem nadal pracuje duża palownica (trochę więcej o tym później):
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> 
> Tuż za wałem, tam gdzie ostatnio widzieliśmy odsłonięte pale, zbrojony jest już fundament podpory:
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> 
> W stronę Wisły trwa dalej wykonywanie pali, ale są też już budowane kolejne podpory estakady. W tle widać betonowanie fundamentów podpór mostu:
> 
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> W miejscu gdzie przejdzie estakada wzmacniany jest też wał przeciwpowodziowy:
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> M


----------



## gramercy

its coming along real nice!


----------



## Verso

michal_OMB said:


> spinacz said:
Click to expand...

Is this some new type of crash barriers? I haven't seen so shiny crash barriers in Poland. (sorry for such a Radi-like question )


----------



## Mateusz

Nah, same as always just photo is taken not very long after they were installed


----------



## ufonut

A2 Swiecko-Nowy Tomysl by PLH

Direction west towards Berlin









Test concrete 


















More photos by PLH can be found here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=389291&page=132


----------



## Rusonaldo

A2:

http://www.autostrada-a2.pl/pl/awsa-ii/galeria-budowy-odcinka-a2-do-swiecka.html


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## bebe.2006

The air pictures are great.


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## bebe.2006

A funny way to show a road. S7 near Białobrzegi (Section between Warszawa and Radom):



mareknowosad said:


> http://www.youtube.com/user/modelebgi


----------



## michal_OMB

next page but it's will be a new photos


----------



## michal_OMB

next page but it's will be a new photoss


----------



## michal_OMB

*[A8] bypass Wroclaw*


----------



## Qtya

Verso said:


> Is this some new type of crash barriers? I haven't seen so shiny crash barriers in Poland. (sorry for such a *Radi*-like question )


It seems heros get remembered, but legends never die... :lol:


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## bebe.2006

Opened S11 section near Ostrów Wkp.:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=430201&page=60
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=430201&page=61
Here 2 fotos from these pages as example:

by mikrus


----------



## Barciur

Anyone knows when is S17 and Lublin bypass part of it going to be completed? Mainly when are we gonna be able to go from Warsaw to Lublin exclusively using S17 or AT least from Garwolin to Lublin?


----------



## michal_OMB

*[A1] Grudziądz - Toruń*

photo by *Christoferus*


----------



## michal_OMB

*[S3] Szczecin - Gorzów Wielkopolski*

photo by *JacYk*


----------



## E2rdEm

Barciur said:


> Anyone knows when is S17 and Lublin bypass part of it going to be completed?


There is a chance to get the environmental decision for Lublin bypass early next year. Then the tender (9 months, I presume) and the final "clearance for construction" (ZnRID - Zezwolenie na Realizację Inwestycji Drogowej). So the construction may start early 2011. The finish date would then be 2013.

Similar situation with Lublin-Piaski - we are still awaiting the tender. So the whole part Kurów - Lublin - Piaski is now expected to be ready in 2013.



Barciur said:


> Mainly when are we gonna be able to go from Warsaw to Lublin exclusively using S17 or AT least from Garwolin to Lublin?


The part from Warszawa to Kurów - basically nothing happens here. The official site has recently pushed the dates of construction 3 years forward - to 2012-2014. This confirms that we shouldn't expect any progress for this part in the foreseeable future. hno:

Dont' forget this is east of Vistula river. For the current government it's a wild country not worth any public investment. :bash:


----------



## michal_OMB

*[S3] Szczecin - Gorzów Wielkopolski*

*photos by JacYk*


----------



## michal_OMB




----------



## michal_OMB




----------



## michal_OMB

*[S10] bypass Stargard Szczeciński*

*photos by JacYk*


----------



## michal_OMB




----------



## michal_OMB




----------



## Majestic

michal_OMB said:


> *[S10] bypass Stargard Szczeciński*
> 
> *photos by JacYk*


That's got to be the widest interchange sign ever :nuts:


----------



## mapman:cz

Yeah, the person, that approved that, must be reaaally crazy ) Two lines or some kind of abbreviation wouldn't be possible?

Also, I don't like to see those metal posts - are they somehow safer, than the classic old posts? In CZ and D, you can see on new signs another type of construction, which is light and not fatal when somebody crashes onto it...


----------



## Qwert

Isn't that curve way too sharp? Also gradient of that slope seems to be too big. What will be the speed limit there?


----------



## PLH

^^ 110 km/h

It's because of the big zoom, nothing else.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah zoom can make any curve look tight.


----------



## baderman

Warsawbynight said:


> We are not entering anywhere - A2 to Warsaw is still unsure and S2 Konotopa-Lotnisko either. Ecological mafia makes everything to stop these investments. Before these projects will really start we can not talk about polish "european" motorway system.


Sorry guys for OT, but maybe anyone can tell me, when we have left Europe? Or i've missed something? Or maybe stop false propaganda?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

We have a discussion on the Dutch-language _wegenforum_, and the situation about the future expressways in Southwestern Poland is unclear. For instance, distance signs on S3 indicate Jakuszyce as border crossing, while I have read on wikipedia that it will run to Lubawka. Also; what are the plans for the S8 from Wroclaw south? Will it also run to the Lubawka area, or towards Nachod? 

The issue is how to connect the Czech limited-access network to the Polish network. Should the Czechs extend R10 from Turnov to Harrachov? Or the D11/R11 from Hradec Kralové towards Nachod or Trutnov? 

Anyone knows how the situation will shape up in the next 5 years in this area?


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## LMB

Warsawbynight said:


> We are not entering anywhere - A2 to Warsaw is still unsure and S2 Konotopa-Lotnisko either. Ecological mafia makes everything to stop these investments. Before these projects will really start we can not talk about polish "european" motorway system.


Blame the locals, not the "ecological mafia". It's mainly the locals who are doing the NIMBY (source: Życie Warszawy).


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## LMB

ChrisZwolle said:


> The issue is how to connect the Czech limited-access network to the Polish network. Should the Czechs extend R10 from Turnov to Harrachov? Or the D11/R11 from Hradec Kralové towards Nachod or Trutnov?
> 
> Anyone knows how the situation will shape up in the next 5 years in this area?


I'm not sure what the [realistic] plan is, but geographically Nachod seems easier. Jakuszyce/Harrachov may require more bridges, and both areas (at least on Polish side) are similarly in the need of improvement. 

Frankly I cannot imagine passing S3 anywhere near Jakuszyce. Germans failed/gave up in similar terrain (e.g. around Zweibrücken, in Sauerland, or even in much easier Eifel). 

Possibly the solution for Jakuszyce/Harrachov would be a really long tunnel from the base of Bóbr river (where the terrain is absolutely flat) to the CZ side.


----------



## Bobek_Azbest

There are plans for R11 towards Trutnov and Lubawka on Czech side. And it's hard to believe that it isn't coordinated with Poles. The terrain for R10 is extremely difficult and it would cross several nature reserves as well.


----------



## Barciur

As for NIMBY's, one time I was riding a city bus in Lublin on al. Spółdzielczości Pracy and was standing in the back along with two older men.. the avenue was in under construction (they converted it from one lane each way into two lanes each divided all the way from the borders of the city till al. Smorawinskiego) and it was a time when they were still fighting some NIMBY's.. and one guy said "Under communism everyone wanted roads but there was no money, now we have money and people don't want roads any more"


----------



## Warsawbynight

LMB said:


> Blame the locals, not the "ecological mafia". It's mainly the locals who are doing the NIMBY (source: Życie Warszawy).


You have wrong information - A2 - ecological mafia
S2 - wrong prepared tender. 

Locals have nothing to do with this.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Majestic said:


> That's got to be the widest interchange sign ever :nuts:


Well... :lol:


----------



## MAG

I am all in favour of imaginative use of resources but this sucker begs the question whether the person designing this sign was human or reptilian.

I'm so ashamed of our Roads Agency that, having broken down one barrier ...







... they allow themselves to be faced with another, called stupidity :wallbash:.

It's like living in ... the Twilight Zone!


.


----------



## geogregor

MAG said:


> I am all in favour of imaginative use of resources but this sucker begs the question whether the person designing this sign was human or reptilian.
> 
> I'm so ashamed in our Road Agency that, having broken down one barrier ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... they allow themselves to be faced with another, called stupidity :wallbash:.
> 
> It's like living in ... the Twilight Zone!
> 
> 
> .


:hilarious


----------



## Timon91

That's a nice sign to hang on the wall in your living room :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Guess what has appeared on Google Maps...


----------



## panda80

^^Zgorzelec-Krzyzowa section of A4?


----------



## Mateusz

Finally ! Still not on GE though


----------



## Czas na Żywiec

I was wondering when they were going to finally update their map. I wonder how long until the Kraków-Szarów section is shown as motorway. hno:


----------



## mikhal77

GDDKiA has cacelled contract with Alpine Bau for a 18,3 km longstretch of A1 beetween Swierklany and Gorzyczki(czech border),which was to be completed by August 2010.New tender to be anounced in April,and road to be completed by 31 March 2012.Nice 

http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/article/informacje/aktualnosci/article.php/id_item_tree/aaaa9d2331df29f7c9532446f010dbf1/id_art/10f0e0c30bc1e59fe4ff04c70ecdf985(polish only)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

But the works already started? This is weird. What was the cause to cancel this contract?


----------



## MAG

ChrisZwolle said:


> But the works already started? This is weird. What was the cause to cancel this contract?


There is a whole chapter and verse on the subject in the link above. In short, Alpine had persistently failed to work to schedule on this contract. The logic of consequence applied here by the Roads Agency was ruthless but right, IMHO.

Hopefully, this will send out ripples through to other construction companies working on prestigious motorway building projects, who will now take heed of this event and deliver on time and within agreed budget.


.


----------



## mikhal77

^^Only 50% work done.Should be 85% so far completed.Gdaka inspectors found only 69 workers on whole length of the stretch


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## ChrisZwolle

I used Google Translate 

It looks pretty bad though, I hope the other companies learn from this. The GDDKiA decision was ruthless indeed, but I hope other companies will now learn GDDKiA/Poland is not some banana republic where they think they can do anything they like.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Several locations in Poland got new imagery on Google Earth, including Warszawa, Wroclaw, Poznan, Lodz and Kraków.

A8 Wroclaw:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Is there a chance that they complete this half ringroad of Wroclaw?

Like this?


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## ChrisZwolle

S7 will open tomorrow. Then, the continuous 2x2 part of S7 will be around 48 kilometers long. I think this is one of the longest 2x2 S-road in Poland (maybe S1 is longer?)


----------



## PLH

^^ No, S1 is shorter - 35,1 km (as one section, otherwise it has 70,4 km and is indeed the longest one)



ChrisZwolle said:


> Is there a chance that they complete this half ringroad of Wroclaw?


You gotta search some Wrocław threads.

Still, I suppose this can happen within no less than 8 years.


----------



## zebrahead

yes the western segment is the next section to be built. not sure bout the timelines, could someone else fill in this info?


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> I used Google Translate
> 
> It looks pretty bad though, I hope the other companies learn from this. The GDDKiA decision was ruthless indeed, but I hope other companies will now learn GDDKiA/Poland is not some banana republic where they think they can do anything they like.


The only problem with that is the delay. According to message from our road authority they have to update the project specification, then announce the new tender, then is the whole process of choosing new contractor with all the possible protest and delays. They hope works to resume somewhere next September. It means they miss the next summer construction season and the new predicted time of completion is spring of 2012, just before Euro.
I honestly hope they can shorten all the procedures and resume works next spring to make the best of summer.
But I suspect there might be serious issues with one bridge (MA532), there are rumors that design of it was screwed from the beginning. Maybe they want to change the design before new tender is announced? 
Anyway, in my opinion they should choose simpler bridge to start from as the whole project is complicated enough due to difficult terrain and issues with mining underneath. 
I hope this whole mess to be resolved ASAP as I come from the town next to Mszana exit  
Ech, when will I be able to use this roadhno:


----------



## Mateusz

Huh, massive delays in Poland 


We CANNOT afford something like that on A2 for sure


----------



## ChrisZwolle

_Nareszcie! Otworzyli drogę Grójec-Białobrzegi_

:cheers:

S7 opened. Now there are 20 kilometers extra motorway in Poland


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The bypass of Wyrzysk (S10) opened today. It has a length of 10 kilometers and is located between Szczecin and Bydgoszcz.


----------



## E2rdEm

ChrisZwolle said:


> S7 opened. Now there are 20 kilometers extra motorway in Poland


C'mon, use the word "expressway". This word, just like "motorway", designates a road of good quality and controlled access in most of the countries where it is used...

And, for now, S7 is not quite finished yet. There are still pedestrian croosings because the overpass is not open. I hope they'll finally mark it as expressway in less than a month. :cheers:




ChrisZwolle said:


> The bypass of Wyrzysk (S10) opened today. It has a length of 10 kilometers and is located between Szczecin and Bydgoszcz.


It's a 1x2 expressway widened to 2x2 around intersections. Anyway, it's an expressway, with two bi-level crossings. :cheers:


----------



## msz2

A-1 bridge over Vistula river under construction:


----------



## treichard

Several of you do a great job mentioning when new sections of motorway and expressway open. I just picked off this list of new openings from the last few pages:

- A1: Sośnica - Bełk (soon)
- S7: 17,8 km long stretch between Grojec and Bialobrzegi
- S10: bypass of Stargard Szczeciński (13,5 km)
- S10: bypass of Wyrzysk (10 km)
- S11: section near Ostrów Wkp. 

(Did I miss any?) 

Are maps available showing the new alignments, their interchanges, and any connections to the road they bypass? I searched at gddkia.gov.pl, but didn't find these details there.

Also, the old status map has been updated from
http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/images/user/2/2fb3b9efa5a423806ded9ed613fe3449.jpg
to
http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/images/user/4/48d284c95736c307fd59e6db0214f1d1.jpg

Some of the newly opened sections changed color there.


----------



## michael_siberia

treichard said:


> - S10: bypass of Stargard Szczeciński (13,5 km)


This section isn't opened yet. The opening date is 21st of December (as for now).


----------



## jacekfreeman

Today tenders were announced today on S12/17 and Lublin bypass :cheers:

Look on the map made by chartsurfer


----------



## Mateusz

Wow finally something big for Lubelskie ! My support all the way for developemtn of the 'Eastern Wall'


----------



## RipleyLV

Zambrów bypass is U/C?


----------



## PLH

As shown on the map


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Awesome, S12 is almost 70 kilometers. The first big project in that area.


----------



## jacekfreeman

ChrisZwolle said:


> Awesome, S12 is almost 70 kilometers. The first big project in that area.


Yes we've been waiting for a long long long time for this S road and bypass:cheers:. If everything will go well it might be partially open before euro cup 2012 but fully finished (most likely) at the end of 2012 (November).


----------



## Czas na Żywiec

Great news for Lubelskie Voivodship! :cheers:


----------



## MAG

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is there a chance that they complete this half ringroad of Wroclaw? ...


Here is a link that sheds some light on the current plans of ringroads around Wrocław. 
The inset table gives two scenarios for completion of works:
- white background = optimistic
- black background = pessimistic

The inner ring (purple) that you referred to is not planned to be closed in the next 5 years, while the outer one should be fully closed via the A4 in the south of the city.




ChrisZwolle said:


> Nareszcie! Otworzyli drogę Grójec-Białobrzegi


Uitstekend en imponerend! 



.


.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I have also read the S5/S10 southern bypass of Bydgoszcz opened to traffic yesterday, albeit not being entirely completed.


----------



## michael_siberia

^^ This section was opened today, not yesterday (but I don't know if it's an expressway now):

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=48716501&postcount=813


----------



## Chris80678

When will the Zambrów bypass be finished opened as part of S8 expressway? 
I didn't know it was under construction but it is good that it is because it is the last bottleneck of the current E67 to eradicate if a faster link between Warsaw and eastern Poland is to happen


----------



## ChrisZwolle

2011 - 2012 according to the Polish wikipedia. Works have only just begun.

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obwodnica_Zambrowa


----------



## PLH

*A8 Wrocław*



Czanel said:


> Tych fotek chyba nie było
> http://www.prw.pl/articles/view/14516/autostradowa-obwodnica-wroclawia-na-polmetku-wideo
> 
> Łącznik Kobierzyce-węzeł Lotnisko (W. Kluczewski, Generalna Dyrekcja Dróg Krajowych i Autostrad)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Węzeł Lotnisko-łącznik Długołęka (W. Kluczewski, Generalna Dyrekcja Dróg Krajowych i Autostrad)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most przez Odrę (W. Kluczewski, Generalna Dyrekcja Dróg Krajowych i Autostrad)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Sometimes I wish they picked more clear exit names, instead of some village nobody has ever heard of.


----------



## PLH

They will be changed by the time the road is opened (thanks to one of our forumers, BTW) Remeber the longish Stargard Szczeciński ones? These are new.


----------



## Danielk2

PLH said:


> (thanks to one of our forumers, BTW)


Who??


----------



## zbyszekkk

:lol:


----------



## PLH

What?


----------



## Timon91

Probably the wide sign :lol:


----------



## HS

A1 Sosnica-Belk will be open in 45 minutes


----------



## PLH

Don't know how about A1, but A8 was indeed opened 



fanatyk said:


> Gotowy Most:lol:


----------



## HS

Sośnica-Bełk is opened! But it's dark now, so first photorelations will be tomorrow


----------



## Mateusz

ChrisZwolle said:


> Planning map of S2 Konotopa - Lotnisko in Warszawa.


This is vital development for Warsaw, traffic will be really high here


----------



## HS

Sośnica Interchange opened!


----------



## DanielFigFoz

HS said:


> A1 Sosnica-Belk will be open in 45 minutes


:banana:

These motorways are very good actually, although Radi would not like the lower level of the Sos'nica Interchange!


----------



## bigalowski

Member of European Parliament Piotr Borys revealed investment plans on National Roads in the region of Legnica. In the first quarter of next year tender for construction design of S3 Nowa Sól – Legnice Expressway. It is due to be accomplished by 2013. At the same time tender design and works of S3 from Legnica to Lubawka. Works end in 2013. In years 2012 – 15 construction of 3 lanes along with emergency lanes on A4 between Wroclaw and Krzywa. In the first quarter of 2010 ground buyouts for section of National Road 94 from Prochowice through Legnica to Krzywa is due to be finished. Tenders on sections: Prochowice-Legnica, Legnica-Chojnów i Chojnów-Krzywa will begin in mid 2010. Also, the preperation works on Glogow, Scinawa and Bolkow bypasses are on the go.


----------



## geogregor

Timon91 said:


> Probably the wide sign :lol:


At least you can't miss it


----------



## ChrisZwolle

> In years 2012 – 15 construction of 3 lanes along with emergency lanes on A4 between Wroclaw and Krzywa.


So 2x3 lanes between Wroclaw and Krzywa? :banana:


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

Detailed design of S2 Konotopa - Lotnisko (south bypass of Warsaw): http://siskom.waw.pl/s2.htm#I 

(hint: check PDF's "plan sytuacyjny" and "projekt docelowej organizacji ruchu")


----------



## bigalowski

Yes, finally...Below you'll find link to article about it! It's in Polish.

http://investmap.pl/wiadomosci/legnica-piotr-borys-ujawnil-plany-inwestycyjne,9199.html





ChrisZwolle said:


> So 2x3 lanes between Wroclaw and Krzywa? :banana:


----------



## DanielFigFoz

geogregor said:


> At least you can't miss it


Very true.


----------



## PLH

A1 (second movie is way more interesting )



oho said:


> Bełk - Knurów
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Knurów - Sośnica (wylot na Tychy)


Plus availible directions:



michael_siberia said:


> Było w formie animacji, ale zostało zasypane dyskusją o Alpine.
> 
> Schematy relacji na Sośnicy - obrazki ze strony Gdaki.
> 
> Z Katowic:
> 
> 
> Z Gliwic:
> 
> 
> Z Tychów:
> 
> 
> Z Rybnika:
> 
> 
> Z Wrocławia:


----------



## Chris80678

I like the appearance of Sośnica interchange especially the lower and upper flyovers :banana:. I would guess it will be Poland's busiest interchange given that there are two roads meeting in the same place, but whether Stryków I will be busier I don't know


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Are there any good pics of the A1 yet?


----------



## PLH

^^ Not really, only this:






And this:

http://karol.szastok.net/forum/A1/Wezel_Gliwice/Wezel_Gliwice_24_12.htm


----------



## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> Are there any good pics of the A1 yet?


N'joy! 

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=542716&page=336

Teaser:


----------



## Mateusz

This looks all cool

I was really confused wether it's open yet or not !


----------



## PLH

And one New Year's comparision:

If someone could please find a translated legend that was in this thread for like million times I would be grateful.



comrade7 said:


>


----------



## RipleyLV

^^ Who makes this map?


----------



## rakim

^^ polish forumers


----------



## bebe.2006

More of the stuff:



bregi said:


> A1 to Bełk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ta estakada


----------



## Warsaw spectator

PLH said:


> If someone could please find a translated legend that was in this thread for like million times I would be grateful.


Istniejąca
*in operation*

w budowie
*U/C*

podpisana umowa (PPP i Z&Z)
*contract signed (PPP and P&B)*

przetarg
*tender announced*

Z&Z
*project & build*

DŚU Decyzja o środowiskowych uwarunkowaniach
nfi:nuts: *Environmental Impact Assessments*

PPP (Partnerstwo publiczno - prywatne) - podpisana umowa
*PPP (Public - private partnership) - contract signed*

*od momentu podpisania umowy na budowę, a wprzypadku odcinków budowanych w systemie PPP, od momentu rozpoczęcia budowy
**from contract signing, or from construction starts (when in PPP)*


** przetargi w trybie "Zaprojektuj i zbuduj"
*** project & build tenders*

EDIT: BTW I tink it's a good idea to suggest *chartsurfer* to add english descriptions to his map


----------



## michael_siberia

Warsaw spectator said:


> Z&Z
> *project & build*


*design & build* :tongue2:


----------



## Mateusz

IMO changes proposed by some forumers are ridiculous, soon we will need whole RGB palette to mark everything


----------



## HS

A1 photos by *Kasz*

Bełk - Dębieńsko



Kasz said:


>


Dębieńsko - Knurów



Kasz said:


>


Knurów - Sośnica












































































































Sośnica Interchange - it isn't already finished, but GDDKiA decided to open it because of heavy traffic during Christmas (IMO about 50,000-100,000 Silesians from Rybnik's region come from Germany to their families in Poland)



Kasz said:


>


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Awesome! Finally some decent pictures  Great.


----------



## dawid_silesia

more...



esce said:


> Prawie wszystko, co można było powiedzieć na temat odcinka Sośnica - Bełk zostało powiedziane, więc wstawiam tylko kilka fotek:
> 
> 1. Zdjęcie zrobione za estakadą w Knurowie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Przejście dla zwierząt tuż za MOP-em Knurów.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Wiadukt kolejowy przed Dębieńskiem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Ekrany przed węzłem Dębieńsko.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Tymczasowy koniec autostrady w Bełku, zdjęcia pokazujące organizację ruchu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7. Oznakowanie w porządku, uważam, że jest czytelne.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filmik z przejazdu na odcinku Bełk - MOP Knurów.


----------



## dawid_silesia

...and more 



esce said:


> Kilka zdjęć ze wschodniego MOP-u Knurów.
> 
> 8. Sanitariaty.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9. O dziwo, zamknięte, można podziwiać wyłącznie przez szybę.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 10. Stoliki piknikowe
> 
> 
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> 11.
> 
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> 
> 
> 12. Widok ogólny.
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 13. Spojrzenie za siebie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14. Wyjazd z MOP-u.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 15. Na koniec klosze jakie są użyte do oświetlenia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Starałem się ograniczyć ze zdjęciami i pokazać tylko rzeczy niepokazane do tej pory, pewnie i tak wiele osób odczuwa już przesyt.
> 
> Pozdrawiam


----------



## RipleyLV

rakim said:


> ^^ polish forumers


Aa, I see now why the layout is inaccurate.


----------



## dawid_silesia

and more 

A4 Katowice -> A1 Rybnik (Ostrava (CZ))



esce said:


> Cóż, jedziemy w takim razie dalej  Przepraszam za jakość zdjęć, niestety były robione pod słońce.
> 
> 16. Jedziemy od Katowic, A4 rozdziela się na dwie jezdnie - nie sposób tego przeoczyć.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 17. Tuż przed A1 (WA 465) - zwężenie do jednego pasa, pewnie ze względu na prace wykończeniowe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 18. Stok ładnie zazieleniony, sierżanty wyznaczają krawędź pasów ruchu - jedziemy w kierunku Czech.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 19. Kończy się jezdnia zbiorcza Z1.
> 
> 
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> 
> 20. Jezdnia zbiorcza Z1 włącza się w główną jezdnię A1.
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 21. Węzeł Knurów, pas wyłączenia.
> 
> 
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> 22.
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 23. Estakada nad stawem Moczury wraz z pasem wyłączenia. Moim zdaniem dylatacje są znośne, lepsze niż w wielu miejscach na A4 jeśli chodzi o odcinek Katowice - Gliwice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 24.
> 
> 
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> 25. Zjazd na MOP Knurów, strona zachodnia. Jak widać, z malowaniem jest coś nie tak.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ciąg dalszy niebawem.


----------



## Blaskovitz

esce said:


> 26. Przed węzłem Dębieńsko.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 27. Pomiędzy węzłami Bełk i Dębieńsko.
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 28. Końcówka obecnego odcinka A1.
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 29. Tak to wygląda na węźle Bełk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 30. Ze względu na nakręcony w tym czasie filmik, następna fotka jest dopiero ze zjazdu z MOP-u Knurów.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 31. Estakada WA 470.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 32. Pas włączenia z węzła Knurów.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 33. Zbliżamy się do PPO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 34. Fragment nawierzchni betonowej - jedzie się bez większych wstrząsów.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 35. Zbliżamy się do Sośnicy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Niebawem ostatnia część.


The rest of the photos.


----------



## Blaskovitz

esce said:


> 36. Dojeżdżamy do zwężenia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 37.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 38. Odbicie na Katowice w prawo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 39.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 40. I jesteśmy za rondem-nierondem, ofiara błędnego przekonania, że znajduje się na skrzyżowaniu o ruchu okrężnym.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 41. Skręcamy w kierunku Czech.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 42. Droga zbiorcza Z1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 43. Zjeżdżamy na S6 (kierunek Katowice).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 44. Włączamy się z S6 na Z4.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 45. Jadąc Z4...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To wszystko, pozdrawiam.


That's all.


----------



## PLH

Blaskovitz said:


> That's all.


Not really, but please do not post more pics here.

If you feel like seeing more, here's the link:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=49105075


----------



## bebe.2006

Road S10, bypass of the town Wyrzysk (between Szczecin and Bydgoszcz (how do you pronounce "szcz"  )) opened this week.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=49085763&postcount=620

An example:


----------



## bebe.2006

Road S69. Entry from Slovakia to Poland.



igorlan said:


>


----------



## ABRob

bebe.2006 said:


> Road S69. Entry from Slovakia to Poland.


Traffic lights on an expressway?

And wasn't this border control a waste of money? The connecting roads D3 and S69 will not be finished for years, so the control looked oversized to me an now it is obsolete because of Schengen.


----------



## Tornadoli

bebe.2006 said:


> (how do you pronounce "szcz"


Like this (in English letters): shtsh


----------



## PLH

ABRob said:


> Traffic lights on an expressway?


Expy starts later down the road, but these lights don't work anyway.



ABRob said:


> And wasn't this border control a waste of money?


Yes, it was. To be precise, of 12 million euro.


----------



## bebe.2006

ABRob said:


> Traffic lights on an expressway?
> 
> And wasn't this border control a waste of money? The connecting roads D3 and S69 will not be finished for years, so the control looked oversized to me an now it is obsolete because of Schengen.


Actually, the expressway begins after the traffic lights, if I've got it right.

The decision to build this border control station is made 2000 or so. In that time there was even not sure both countries came to the EU, not to mention Schengen group. Now it's useless. Btw you can buy it. The local authorities try to sell the station because of the cost of maitenance. (It will cost you same 100 mln zloty; the building cost was 140 mln zl or so)

___________________________________________________________

Road DK8 (DK = national road) north of Białystok, opened last week (same 6 km long, I think):



Białostoczanin;49102739 said:


>


----------



## Tornadoli

I have just been on the A4 today, and I am wondering if there are reservations for a 3rd lane along the whole of the A4. It seems to me that between Krakow and Katowice, there is space for a third lane in the middle, however from Katowice to Wroclaw, there isn't enough space in the middle, so I am wondering if there are reservations on the sides possibly?
And also, on the other motorways and expressways, are there reservations for 3rd lanes?


----------



## Mateusz

Yes they have !


----------



## Andrzej_3598

*Some more statistics*

Please look at here:

http://sites.google.com/site/sscplas/

xxxx-Qx - changes compared to previous quater
xxxx - chnages compared to previous year (end of December)


----------



## pijanec

^^Great map. 

But I think it should follow traffic lights colors. Green for open, yellow/orange in construction/near construction and red for development phase. Now I always think red is bad. :lol::lol:


----------



## Sponsor

Tornadoli said:


> And also, on the other motorways and expressways, are there reservations for 3rd lanes?


Sometimes they leave some space on outer side which I think is one strange solution as you need to reconstruct all exit/enter lanes instead of just adding one inner lane.

And yes: all m'ways do have a possibility of adding 3rd lane and some e'roads (if not all) have it as well.


----------



## Andrzej_3598

pijanec said:


> ^^Great map.
> 
> But I think it should follow traffic lights colors. Green for open, yellow/orange in construction/near construction and red for development phase. Now I always think red is bad. :lol::lol:


Maps are not mine. This is already well accepted standard by Polish forumers.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What are the chances of this road getting build?


----------



## PLH

^^ Rather low in the next few years, this is only a concept.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I like it though. Warszawa - Radom - Rzeszów. It makes a lot of sense.


----------



## Mateusz

You have also option through Lublin


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Via Lublin is about 30 km longer. But long distance traffic is one, but regional traffic is also important. If Poland gets traffic volumes like we have in Western Europe, a motorway connection between cities like Radom and Rzeszów is absolutely necessary. Another advantage of motorways is traffic safety and regional development, it's not all about the traffic volumes. 

In Spain, they have constructed massive amounts of Autovías in the rural areas to prevent it from running empty, and thus they can't keep up a minimal level of services, like schools, hospitals, stores, etc. Urban development is one, but an empty rural area is not something I would see as a good thing.


----------



## Rusonaldo

A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl - Under construction






A2 Toll Plaza near Konin - under construction






A2 Toll Plaza near Łódź - under construction






Rest area - under construction


----------



## Mateusz

ChrisZwolle said:


> Via Lublin is about 30 km longer. But long distance traffic is one, but regional traffic is also important. If Poland gets traffic volumes like we have in Western Europe, a motorway connection between cities like Radom and Rzeszów is absolutely necessary. Another advantage of motorways is traffic safety and regional development, it's not all about the traffic volumes.
> 
> In Spain, they have constructed massive amounts of Autovías in the rural areas to prevent it from running empty, and thus they can't keep up a minimal level of services, like schools, hospitals, stores, etc. Urban development is one, but an empty rural area is not something I would see as a good thing.


Yeah tell about it to our forward thinking authorities ^^


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Can some of the Polish forumers give me some more information about the DSU of S61/DK8 around Augustów?

I read the DSU was taken recently, so the bypass of Augustów is secured?

Will the entire route (variant 3) be build as S61? If so, will it continue via Lomza towards S8, or via Bialystok? Or will a part of this route be S61, and the rest DK8?


----------



## czarny

ChrisZwolle said:


> I like it though. Warszawa - Radom - Rzeszów. It makes a lot of sense.


To be honest with you mate I don't belive that S9 will be under construction before 2030 or ever alternativelly expressway going to be S19 from Rzeszów throu Lublin finally to Białystok.
The question is this road S9 is so important for country and connections from outside the Polish border I don't really think so the most important is link S19 -S17 from Slovakia to Baltic countrys in this part of Poland.


----------



## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> I read the DSU was taken recently, so the bypass of Augustów is secured?


Yes, it is.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Will the entire route (variant 3) be build as S61? If so, will it continue via Lomza towards S8, or via Bialystok? Or will a part of this route be S61, and the rest DK8?


I suppose via Łomża, but when it comes down to that road, I'm not keeping up with the Joneses, so ask somebody else.


----------



## Andrzej_3598

Warsaw spectator said:


> Istniejąca
> *in operation*
> 
> w budowie
> *U/C*
> 
> podpisana umowa (PPP i Z&Z)
> *contract signed (PPP and P&B)*
> 
> przetarg
> *tender announced*
> 
> Z&Z
> *project & build*
> 
> DŚU Decyzja o środowiskowych uwarunkowaniach
> nfi:nuts: *Environmental Impact Assessments*
> 
> PPP (Partnerstwo publiczno - prywatne) - podpisana umowa
> *PPP (Public - private partnership) - contract signed*
> 
> *od momentu podpisania umowy na budowę, a wprzypadku odcinków budowanych w systemie PPP, od momentu rozpoczęcia budowy
> **from contract signing, or from construction starts (when in PPP)*
> 
> 
> ** przetargi w trybie "Zaprojektuj i zbuduj"
> *** project & build tenders*
> 
> EDIT: BTW I tink it's a good idea to suggest *chartsurfer* to add english descriptions to his map


Here you may find legend fully translated:

http://sites.google.com/site/sscplas/


If needed - I have also BMP


----------



## mati162c

ChrisZwolle said:


> Can some of the Polish forumers give me some more information about the DSU of S61/DK8 around Augustów?
> 
> I read the DSU was taken recently, so the bypass of Augustów is secured?
> 
> Will the entire route (variant 3) be build as S61? If so, will it continue via Lomza towards S8, or via Bialystok? Or will a part of this route be S61, and the rest DK8?


well, s 61 will go from s8 in ostrów maz. to łomża, ełk, then it'll bypass augustów and suwałki from the west and go straight to lithuanian border...
the augustów bypass is a little part of 2x2 s61, and the rest of it will be dk8 1x2 gp standard...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Thanks


----------



## ChrisZwolle

czarny said:


> To be honest with you mate I don't belive that S9 will be under construction before 2030 or ever alternativelly expressway going to be S19 from Rzeszów throu Lublin finally to Białystok.
> The question is this road S9 is so important for country and connections from outside the Polish border I don't really think so the most important is link S19 -S17 from Slovakia to Baltic countrys in this part of Poland.


Don't be so pessimistic. That it isn't on the current plans doesn't mean it won't be constructed _for another 20 years_, as you so eloquently put it. Governments change, priorities change, funding change. Poland will get a higher level of welfare, just like it happened in Spain. Right now, Spanish local Autovías used to be constructed with 80% EU funding, like in Poland, but they are now constructed without EU-funding, simply because they have enough money themselves. 

I think it's reasonable to expect this S9 to be constructed between 2018 and 2022. Once they have completed most current projects around 2012-2013, a whole new round of additional S/A-roads construction can begin.


----------



## Mateusz

Perhaps we can be bit more optimistic about turning some expressways into motorways, there are some modest voices and concepts about that. Sooner or later expressways will be toll for sure when they will be making some network


----------



## czarny

Mateusz said:


> Sooner or later expressways will be toll for sure when they will be making some network


 I hope not especially if expressway has been made 2X1:lol: that's radiculous make the road like this Toll.
Happy New Year :cheers:


----------



## Mateusz

Word expressway is an easy subject of manipulation, you think expressway hmm motorway like road, you look in reality many of them are more or less like ordinary roads..


----------



## Tornadoli

What motorways/expressways do you guys think should have 3 lanes? In my opinion, most should have (except eg. S6, where I think 2 lanes are enough for now)


----------



## Mateusz

What ? Three City Bypass needs third lane for yesterday !


----------



## Blaskovitz

Szczecin.


----------



## Xmaster

^^ Why is a such big median in the first photo? Seems that it's a reserve for something. By the way red color look interesting


----------



## Sponsor

^^Tram line probably


----------



## Mateusz

Refurbished Trasa Zamkowa ?


----------



## Czas na Żywiec

Apparently so! 

A cool shot from Wikipedia


----------



## RipleyLV

Wait, by which time it was build? Those junctions and lights look neat. Is there a map of this "Trasa"?


----------



## Euroboyy

Xmaster said:


> ^^ Why is a such big median in the first photo? Seems that it's a reserve for something. By the way red color look interesting


Szczecin Fast Tram. It will connect left and right side of the city separated by the Odra river. Construction will cost about 700 mln zl.



RipleyLV said:


> Wait, by which time it was build? Those junctions and lights look neat. Is there a map of this "Trasa"?


Trasa Zamkowa was built in 1987. The red one bridge in 2003.


----------



## michal_OMB

*[S3] Szczecin - Gorzów Wielkopolski*

*photo by Jacyk*


----------



## michal_OMB

*[S7] Czosnów-Płańsk*

*photo by RaV...*


----------



## michal_OMB

*[S69] Tunnel*


----------



## michal_OMB

*[S6] bypass Słupsk*

*photo by alchemik*


----------



## RipleyLV

Euroboyy said:


> Trasa Zamkowa was built in 1987. The red one bridge in 2003.


Looks like new.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

E2rdEm said:


> A few pages ago you've mentioned that Spain built autovias to such remote places that they had to cut the budget for schools & hospitals in the same areas. Isn't that too much road bulding?


No, what I said was that the Spanish countryside was on the verge of a social collapse, with not enough population to support minimum services like schools, hospitals and civic services. When they improve the infrastructure, the countryside will remain attractive, so people won't leave en masse for the big cities.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

DK1/DK2 Krosniewiece bypass.

What on earth is a zebra crossing doing on such a motorway-like road?


----------



## PLH

It's temporary, untill a flyover is being istalled.


----------



## pijanec

^^mg:


----------



## Danielk2

Last time i was in Wroclaw, i saw that a lot too. Pedestrian crossings on 2x2 or 2x3 roads coming out of nowhere.


----------



## Qwert

:rofl:









Is it really necessary to remind drivers about this? (Well, I hope I understand it correctly.)


----------



## Danielk2

what does it mean??


----------



## Qwert

Danielk2 said:


> what does it mean??


Well, if it means the same as Slovak: "Nedaj sa zabiť," then it means: "Don't let you be killed." (But, I'm not sure, Polish is very tricky language.)


----------



## Fuzzy Llama

^^ "Don't let get yourself killed".

We can discuss the need or the effectiveness of this kind of advertisement, but I don't see them as a bad thing. The German banners are everywhere on the Autobahn, and I find myself reconsidering the speed I'm going after passing some of those ads.


----------



## Danielk2

http://translate.google.com/#pl|en|Nie daj Sie zabić


----------



## seem

And what is on the opposite side?


----------



## Fuzzy Llama

This google translate tool is hilarious. When you enter the sentence correctly (Daniel, you missed the little tail in 'ę'  ) the result doesn't make any sense 
http://translate.google.com/?js=y&p...f=1&text=Nie+daj+się+zabić&file=&sl=pl&tl=en#


----------



## Danielk2

i tried doing it with the E with a tail, but the translation messed up. (Damn those Google ones with bad translations :rant


----------



## DSzumaher

Fuzzy Llama said:


> http://translate.google.com/?js=y&p...f=1&text=Nie+daj+się+zabić&file=&sl=pl&tl=en#


without dot - "Do not let them kill" clic
with dot - "Do not get killed." clic
:lol:
SCNR


----------



## Danielk2

:rofl:


----------



## Chris80678

So is the entire Krośniewice bypass/ring road open for use? If it is then
traffic on the E30/E75 will now flow smoothly around the town :banana: 
What annoys me is that the website www.zumi.pl isn't updated yet with the
A1 Gliwice-Bełk, S10 Stargard Sczeciński bypass and S7 Grójec-Białobrzegi expressway showing :bash: It usually updates pretty quickly. Other towns in Poland need expressway standard bypasses like Ciechanów, Koszalin, Nowogard, Gostynin, Pułtusk, Jawór, Świdnica and Jelenia Góra to name but a few. I suppose in a few years the S6 expressway will alleviate Koszalin and
Nowogard's roads.


----------



## Blaskovitz

DSzumaher said:


> without dot - "Do not let them kill" clic
> with dot - "Do not get killed." clic
> :lol:
> SCNR




Check this! 

http://translate.google.pl/#pl|en|W zakopanem


----------



## Capt.Vimes

Blaskovitz said:


> Check this!
> 
> http://translate.google.pl/#pl|en|W zakopanem


^^ :lol:


----------



## mappero

Hello guys, did you see this map? 

http://mapy.cz/#[email protected][email protected][email protected]=10

It's old Polish style numeration of the junctions along motorway. I'm think it was very good way to showing which exit, entrance or junction was located. This kind of numbers also give us accurate location, which is very convenience with information about traffic we could hear in radio. For example [exit 160] it was Bielany Wroclawskie.


----------



## LMB

Fuzzy Llama said:


> We can discuss the need or the effectiveness of this kind of advertisement, but I don't see them as a bad thing. The German banners are everywhere on the Autobahn, and I find myself reconsidering the speed I'm going after passing some of those ads.


Upwards? :lol:

But seriously, they are needed.


----------



## Andrzej_3598

Capt.Vimes said:


> ^^ :lol:


Well - names of cities in Polish starts with capital letter. When you write *Z*akopanem - works fine ;-)


----------



## michal_OMB

*[S69] Bielsko Biała bypass *

*photo by kocjan.pl*


----------



## Bobek_Azbest

michal_OMB said:


>


Wow, what a maze of pillars. :cheers:


----------



## aswnl

michal_OMB said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


*Very close to the church of this village. Wasn't there a way to build the road around the village ?

And what an coincidence: a picture of a church by Kirchner... *


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The problem with Bielsko-Biala is that it has mountainous areas to the southwest and southeast of the city. Only directly south of the city, there is a mountain gap, where the S69 is supposed to run through towards Zywiec.

Another issue, what seems to be mostly in Southern Poland and around Warszawa, is that the outskirts of cities tend to be semi-rural, with a lot of grown-together villages and strip development along roads. The rural areas therefore tend to be highly urbanized. Lead the roads around even that makes the road less useful to Bielsko-Biala. 

Areas around Katowice, Kraków, Wroclaw and Warszawa also have this kind of rural pattern.


----------



## Sponsor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Another issue, what seems to be mostly in Southern Poland and around Warszawa, is that the outskirts of cities tend to be semi-rural, with a lot of grown-together villages and strip development along roads. The rural areas therefore tend to be highly urbanized. Lead the roads around even that makes the road less useful to Bielsko-Biala.


This makes builiding really tough. I don't like those dispered villages in Poland. I wish we had villages more like in Slovakia with builidings concentrated in one cluster.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

http://www.motogazeta.mojeauto.pl/A...h_i_rannych_ale_wiecej_pijanych,a,156163.html

Although Poland still has a long way to go, a huge improvement has been made in traffic fatalities. 

In 2009, 4.564 people were killed, comparing to 5.437 in 2008. 

173.324 people have been arrested for driving under influence (DUI). It seems like the Polish police has made alcohol checks a top priority. More people have been arrested for that than previous years, but this is most likely the result of more intensive enforcement.


----------



## Danielk2

I'd wish that police checks existed in Denmark (which they do not)
According to Megafon, 1/3 of all danes with a drivers license has written text messages while driving. If the police did any checks at all, they'd be arresting like half a million people :rofl:


----------



## Jamuary

del


----------



## delfin_pl

well, strict law and all those photo radars and huge improvement of roads quality seem to work well.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

delfin_pl said:


> well, strict law and all those photo radars and huge improvement of roads quality seem to work well.


There is still a very long way to go, even in absolute numbers, Poland has the highest number of traffic fatalities in Europe, while Germany has less, but almost 2.5 times more population. 

The accident rate in Poland is 120 deaths per 1 million population. In Spain, for instance, it is 41.


----------



## lukaszek89

Yes, thats horrific numbers...


----------



## ufonut

Poland is quickly becoming a country of sound barriers and speed traps. Gone are the days when one could actually see landscapes while driving and not worry about being photographed.

Time is coming to rise up against GDDKiA's terror.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ufonut said:


> Time is coming to rise up against GDDKiA's terror.


Actually, European regulation. 

There are caps on the noise levels in Europe, and to achieve that, noise barriers are necessary. It is unfortunately something you'll see more and more in Europe. Nice for the people around, but not for the traveler. Although I do remember issues where the local residents were also against noise barriers, because they didn't have a view anymore. They rather had the noise than a noise barrier.


----------



## ufonut

That's understandable however I can show you literally kilometers of noise barriers put up where nobody lives, works or even spends time. If it was done to comply with some Euro road regulation then that regulation needs to be thrown out.

People usually complain when their businesses are "covered up" by noise barriers - such situation recently happened in Poland after a stretch of DK4 was modernized.


"Precz z ekranami przed dzialalnoscia gospodarcza" - loosely translated "Out with noise barriers before business activity".


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Noise barriers are not necessary for business, because they are not meant for permanent living. Only homes, hospitals and schools are subject to an acoustical survey, those are called "noise-sensitive subjects". Hotels, recreational parks, businesses, and campsites are not. That said, a noise barrier could still be necessary if there is a noise-sensitive subject is located behind or next to it, and noise levels are too high without measures.


----------



## seem

Last pictures remind me a feeder to D3 in Žilina. Around the motorway in Bielsko-Biala(my granfather was born there  ), Zywiecki and slovak "Kysuce" region are very built-up areas. Life near motorway will be hard. Somewhere is it too close to villages and towns.

http://zilina-gallery.sk/galleries/Vystavba_v_Ziline/Privadzac_Zilina_Strazov/xIMG_0598.jpg


----------



## LMB

ufonut said:


> Poland is quickly becoming a country of sound barriers and speed traps. Gone are the days when one could actually see landscapes while driving and not worry about being photographed.
> 
> Time is coming to rise up against GDDKiA's terror.


Time to lock you up for a while. hno:


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Noise barriers are not necessary for business, because they are not meant for permanent living. Only homes, hospitals and schools are subject to an acoustical survey, those are called "noise-sensitive subjects". Hotels, recreational parks, businesses, and campsites are not. That said, a noise barrier could still be necessary if there is a noise-sensitive subject is located behind or next to it, and noise levels are too high without measures.


Polish environmental law does not distinguish business and noise-sensitive objects. Very often people have their business at home (on ground floor, living above).

Best they can do is build hardened glass barriers. Example on Modlińska street in Warsaw (DK61, GP-class):








The one who did it was captured, and hopefully sentenced.

On Wał Miedzeszyński street (DW801) they allowed business to advertise their location on city-owned information system, like these:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/POL_WAW_MSI_Tablica_kierunkowa.jpg
More about the system (polish):
Wikipedia


----------



## Piotrek_409

Noise barriers may be damaging for businesses however there is other issue which remains unsolved. We have big problem in Poland with hundreds of thousands of aggresive commercials placed placed near roads. 

It happens in other european countries too, but not on such a huge scale like there. Even in neighbouring countries like Czech Republic, Slovakia, Lithuania it not so bad

So far local governments were unable to solve to problem. 


Those commercials often distract drivers attention and may cause traffic accidents. Example on the picture below.











If there is no other solution, maybe it is better just to cover all of 'this' with noise barriers.


----------



## Danielk2

Denmark has a great solution for that problem. All billboards are banned outside town areas. Inside towns, companies like JCDecaux and ClearChannel own a lot of billboards on approved locations. Billboards aren't allowed on urban motorways either.


----------



## Piotrek_409

Danielk2 said:


> All billboards are banned outside town areas.


Theoreticly they are banned in Poland as well, but due to inefficiency of our municipal policy and local governments it takes months, years to turn down illegal advertisments . Furthermore Poles are one of the most 'creative' nation in terms of law interpretation. Warsaw introduced similar law for advertisment as in Berlin, but it hasn't prove to be effective.


----------



## Danielk2

Last year when i was in Wroclaw, driving on DK18/A18 and A4 all is saw was billboards the way from Olszyna to Wroclaw.


----------



## Miguel_PL

Danielk2 said:


> Last year when i was in Wroclaw, driving on DK18/A18 and A4 all is saw was billboards the way from Olszyna to Wroclaw.


Poland's countryside (as well as the cities) is very messy because of those billboards. And unfortunately the majority of our nation doesn't seem to be bothered hno:


----------



## michal_OMB




----------



## Blaskovitz

michal_OMB said:


>


Where is S1(Mysłowice) and S7(Zakopianka)? hno:


----------



## michal_OMB

^^ now is ok


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Isn't S8 near Bialystok to be U/C in 2010?


----------



## Danielk2

Why has there been so little autostrada development/construction before the 21st century??


----------



## Timon91

Communists


----------



## Mateusz

Danielk2 said:


> Why has there been so little autostrada development/construction before the 21st century??


Pre-1989 system had great plans, especially since 70s plans are similar to current ones. We didn't construct much in this commie period, like 3 short stretches of motorways and and some short expressways. There were periodical economical downfalls, especially in the 80s

In 90s it was lack of funds.


----------



## Danielk2

Damn those Commies!! :bleep:


----------



## pijanec

LMB said:


> Time to lock you up for a while. hno:


No wonder Poland have so many prisoners compared to the rest of EU if some people want to lock people up only because of opinion.



Danielk2 said:


> If the police did any checks at all, they'd be arresting like half a million people :rofl:


Police in Europe is not arresting people for traffic offences. But there are rare exceptions in some countries.


----------



## Danielk2

They are arresting for DUI, that's a traffic offense


----------



## pijanec

^^Not in all European countries. They usually just take your driving licence or say to you you are not allowed to continue driving.


----------



## michal_OMB

*Revised map*


----------



## michal_OMB

*Polish DK15 Gniezno-Września

photo by Smar*

*Part 1*


----------



## michal_OMB

*Part 2*


----------



## michal_OMB

*Winter photos, Polish DK15 Gniezno-Miąskowo

photos by marlin*


----------



## michal_OMB




----------



## E2rdEm

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is it true that the PPP for A1 Stryków - Pyrzowice has failed?


Too early to say. Ask again in 4 hours - the deadline is midnight today.



ChrisZwolle said:


> If so, what are the consequences for the completion of this section of A1?


Fatal.


----------



## ufonut

Consortium couldn't secure financing. GDDKIA will take charge of the project from now on and announce tenders as soon as all paperwork has been verified. 

Good news imho.


----------



## GrimFadango

GDDKiA: PPP failed for A1 Stryków - Pyrzowice (polish)

Summary:

1) PPP contract stated, that private said of agreement has to provide: 
* construction project till 22 January 2010;
* executive project till the end of June 2010;

(this two phrases usually start when investment funding is closed, GDDKiA wanted to protect the deadline).

2) 2012/2014 deadline is safe so far, because Autostrada Południe SA submited *construction project* in 20 January 2010.

3) Shedule for now:

* in two weeks: project test in terms of quality, legality and technical assumptions;
* if construction project is consistent with contract, GDDKiA will take actions necessary to obtain permission to run a tender for general contractor.


----------



## E2rdEm

E2rdEm said:


> Too early to say. Ask again in 4 hours - the deadline is midnight today.


Midnight has passed, it's official now:
http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/article/in...ea184/id_art/30e1ccd750c5bd06d92f8e295c06d81a

Short recap:
_A1 Stryków - Pyrzowice will be built by GDDKiA. The concessionaire failed to gather the money.

In the initial PPP contract "Autostrada Południe" had to prepare the design papers. It did, GDDKiA receved the plans at 20th January 2010. Now these will be checked by GDDKiA (for two weeks) and if they are allright - they will be the basis for the building tender (and building permit). The builder will be chosen in 2010.

GDDKiA will work hard to get the whole stretch to be built before Euro2012._
End recap.

Personally, I wouldn't bet that it will be ready for Euro... I hope at least Stryków-Tuszyn (Łódź bypass) will be ready. The rest is 2x2 already, although very dangerous (lots of level crossings, traffic lights, tight curves, built-up areas etc.).


----------



## GrimFadango

^^The 2x2 DK1 part is infamous "lights on expressway" Anyway, news are not that bad. It seems that people in GDDKiA are prepared for plan B. Shame on Autostrada Poludnie SA.


----------



## Mateusz

Widening on A4 between Wroclaw and Legnica shouls start 2012 or 2013, that's the plan or so. 

Good choice, traffic is starting to be real pain there


----------



## and802

GrimFadango said:


> ^^The 2x2 DK1 part is infamous "lights on expressway" Anyway, news are not that bad. It seems that people in GDDKiA are prepared for plan B. Shame on Autostrada Poludnie SA.


any plan "B" is not as good as a plan "A". we will not have that part of A1 ready before euro 2012.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The most vital part of the A1 is Stryków - Tuszyn. Otherwise traffic still has to go through the city of Łódź.


----------



## Mateusz

Yeah, Łódź will get a real ring road, over 100 kilometres long or something.


----------



## PLH

A complete must-see for everyone:

*A4 Kraków - Wrocław*

preview:











*S7/DK47 Zakopane - Kraków*

preview:









(pics included on several pages)


----------



## bebe.2006

Interchange A1/A2 so far:


----------



## Czas na Żywiec

Great news! Today the greenlight for construction was given for the 20km section of A4 between Brzesko and Tarnów-Wierzchosławice. So now the entire stretch between Szarów and Tarnów-Krzyż is oficially under construction, which is I believe 56,8km. It's planned to be open in January of 2012. :cheers:

http://translate.google.com/transla.../d2b06535644fb2b4dc97b14deadc1735&sl=pl&tl=en


----------



## michael_siberia

On 1st of February was signed the contract for S7 Pasłęk-Miłomłyn: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=51117539&postcount=835 

This section is 36,5 km long, according to GDDKiA's standia.


----------



## Xmaster

When the S3 is planned to be opened? I might need it in the middle of March.


----------



## zsimi80

Hi Polish friends! You have a nice country


----------



## michael_siberia

Xmaster said:


> When the S3 is planned to be opened?


Probably in August/September, this year (Szczecin-Gorzów sections, of course).


----------



## Xmaster

michael_siberia said:


> Probably in August/September, this year (Szczecin-Gorzów sections, of course).


Thanks for info. From existing pictures I thought that opening is really soon.


----------



## bewu1

^^There is problem with one section (circa 300 m). They have to built a viaduct / bridge over special kind of marsh.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

When is the construction of A2 Stryków - Konotopa (a.k.a. Łódź - Warszawa) supposed to start?

I guess the winter stop will be over in about three weeks and we can see construction projects starting all over Poland?


----------



## Vallex

Some photos from Krakow to Cesky Tesin 
(P.S. first time to put pics on blogs. if its fail can somebody help?)


----------



## E2rdEm

MAG said:


> Strict interpretation of the rules would require the use of Cyrillic script first, then the Latin transliteration, but in practice most countries use the transliterated name only written in Latin script


You're mixing things up. Article 14.2 refers to domestic place names in countries like Greece, Bulgaria or Ukraine. They are obligated to put the names in their own alphabet and then in the phonetic transliteration to Latin.

Bulgaria seems to have opted out from that, but Greece and Ukraine obey that rule, at least on international roads.
[GR]:


Angelos said:


>


[UA]:


Euro2012Highway said:


>



It doesn't refer directly to names abroad. In my opinion, in that case transliteration would be good enough.


----------



## MAG

E2rdEm said:


> You're mixing things up ...


I am not mixing anything up!

The Convention does not deal with cross-border names when going from Lating to Cyrillic script. Therefore, strict interpretation of Annex 1, Section G.5 is to write the palce name using original script.

I chucked in Artilce 14.2 for interest only, I am fully aware of what it says and means.

.


----------



## RipleyLV

Man, I wish this signage would have been introduced a few years ago...


----------



## Czas na Żywiec

Here are some great aerial photos of Gliwice (mostly of Sosnica interchange) found on the Polish forum.

December - http://a1-pyrzowice-sosnica.pl/zdjecia-lotnicze-2009-14-12
January - http://a1-pyrzowice-sosnica.pl/zdjecia-lotnicze-2010-05-01


----------



## Chris80678

Sośnica interchange will look even better when the A1 reaches Zabrze in late 2011 as it will be a more complete interchange. Apparently it's being upgraded now in time for May 2010? It will be a nightmare to get the A1 through the 
Gliwice-Zabrze-Bytom agglomeration given the many viaducts/tunnels needed to go over/under the numerous railways and streets. Urban sprawl won't help either as only as you go north towards Tarnowskie Góry is there any respite.


----------



## Mateusz

Then you will go on S1 and then you will reach old DK1


----------



## Chris80678

I meant that it will be a nightmare for the construction company who are building the A1 between Gliwice and Zabrze.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

S8 in Warszawa is now visible in Google Nerd:


----------



## Chris80678

How is construction going on the S8 in Warsaw? Is it on schedule to open in
Dec of this year? Some recent construction photos would be good


----------



## Fuzzy Llama

> S8 in Warszawa is now visible in Google Nerd:


Also the S2 in the south:









and the Northern Bridge:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Is S8 supposed to end in the fields near Konotopa for at least the next two years?


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is S8 supposed to end in the fields near Konotopa for at least the next two years?


Companies responsible for design & construction of A2 have to prepeare the motorway to be "usable" ("driveable"?) for 30th of May 2012.

The motorway is supposed to be certified for usage before all work is finished. Polish law is sometimes flexible, if you really want it to be so.

One more thing: in one-to-one talks officials seem to be optimistic about A2.


----------



## bebe.2006

You can see also that:

http://maps.google.de/maps?hl=de&ie=UTF8&ll=52.180432,20.968008&spn=0.005802,0.019033&t=k&z=16


----------



## Czas na Żywiec

Another section of the A4 got the green light for construction today. A part of the Rzeszow northern bypass from Rzeszow Centralny to Rzeszow Wschod.










Source translated in English:
http://translate.google.com/transla...mosci-drogowe/1659-kolejna-umowa-na-budowe-a4

:cheers:


----------



## crcorp

Hello,

After visiting the Highways forum for quite a while, I finally decided to register in order to be able to participate in some debates. First of all, I would like to express my sincere congratulations to the Poles who are constructing these new highways! I was very positively surprised by the brand-new A4 this summer when I decided to visit Wroclaw after a short stay in Dresden.

If I knew about the existence of this forum at that time, I would not have picked the last day (13/08/09) before the opening of the section border-intersection near Boleslawiec :nuts:.

Anyway, I just would like to emphasize what has already been reported by some:

1) It is very strange that when driving towards Germany, not a single large German city is signed... especially for people who don't know the names of the little towns at the border (Jedrychowice if I recall it right), it must be difficult to choose at the intersection near Boleslawiec. You would expect something like the highway to Berlin or the highway to Dresden.

2) Concerning the translation of city names... being Dutch of origin, near the Belgian border, I'm quite familiar with the enormous mess around Limburg: many cities have different names in Dutch, French and German. I had hoped that the German-Polish relations would be a little bit smarter where each respects the name in the language of the other. But this hope was already shattered when seing a sign "Breslau" in Germany. I can fully understand that 99% of the Germans will never use the word "Wroclaw" to designate the city, but I don't think they will be shocked (nor disoriented) by seeing a sign that says "Wroclaw". But well, perhaps they should start giving the good example elsewhere... 

It's a pity that Poland is that far away for me now (currently living in Paris), otherwise I'd be around a lot more often!


----------



## Michu33

esce said:


> Dzisiaj inauguracja nowej mapki w wątku statystycznym - cieszę się, że wreszcie doczekaliśmy wszyscy tej chwili :cheers:


We have new map of polish highways and motorways on forum


----------



## michal_OMB

^^

red color - U/C
yellow - tender
green - existing


----------



## aswnl

And the other colors ?
Does blue perhaps mean "planned" or something like "right-of-way decision taken" ? Is there more "planned" ? I can't believe the S61 stub wouldn't be part of a greater plan...


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

aswnl said:


> And the other colors ?
> Does blue perhaps mean "planned" or something like "right-of-way decision taken" ? Is there more "planned" ? I can't believe the S61 stub wouldn't be part of a greater plan...


Green - completed (yellow middle line for tolled stretches)
Red - under construction
Violet - "design & build" project - drawing period
Yellow - bid open
Brown - bid open ("design & build" project)
Blue - Environmental Impact Assesment accepted

Regards,


----------



## aswnl

Thank you. 
I only miss other planned roads. 
Time for grey color lines ?


----------



## mappero

Highway A8 and motorway S5 Junction Widawa (north part of Wroclaw) - traffic simulation






AOW A8 Junction Kosmonautow in west part of Wroclaw with DK94 in 2010






and the same junction in 2025


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The first Polish road tunnel, tunnel Emilia near Laliki in the S69 express road, opened today to traffic!


----------



## delfin_pl

ChrisZwolle said:


> The* first Polish road tunnel*, tunnel Emilia near Laliki in the S69 express road, opened today to traffic!


first outside city, there are car tunnels in Warsaw, Kraków, Katowice.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Those are underpasses or cut&covers. That's something different than a longer bored road tunnel in my opinion.


----------



## mappero

Yes, this is the first bored road tunnel outside of built up area.
Thanks we have a lot bored railway tunnels


----------



## TheFlyPL

ChrisZwolle said:


> Those are underpasses or cut&covers. That's something different than a longer bored road tunnel in my opinion.


Cut&Cover is one of technics of driving tunnels.


----------



## RipleyLV

ChrisZwolle said:


> The first Polish road tunnel, tunnel Emilia near Laliki in the S69 express road, opened today to traffic!


Can trucks over 12t now cross Skalité border?


----------



## Marek.kvackaj

RipleyLV said:


> Can trucks over 12t now cross Skalité border?


this is what puzzling me too..


----------



## Qwert

RipleyLV said:


> Can trucks over 12t now cross Skalité border?


They can, but after 1 km they have to turn around and go back to Poland:hahano:. That underpass with 7,5 t limitation at the photo posted by me above is still there.


----------



## Czas na Żywiec

^^ Part of the D3 I'm assuming? When do they plan on opening that section for traffic? ( I looked on wikipedia to see if I could find some information but it said it's been open since January of 2006...so not not a very reliable source)


----------



## michal_OMB




----------



## Mateusz

Loads of little pieces


----------



## Sasza

Mateusz said:


> Loads of little pieces


It's mainly bypasses


----------



## RipleyLV

Is S8 before Białystok really U/C?


----------



## PLH

No, this map includes also design and build tenders, don't know why.

Michal_OMB, popraw to proszę, bo tylko wprowadzasz w błąd.:nono:


----------



## michal_OMB

PLH said:


> No, this map includes also design and build tenders, don't know why.
> 
> Michal_OMB, popraw to proszę, bo tylko wprowadzasz w błąd.:nono:


no nie wiem czy wprowadzam w błąd, za podkład robiła mi mapa z GDDKiA, było narysowane że budowie to tak zaznaczyłem


----------



## Qwert

Czas na Żywiec;52970753 said:


> ^^ Part of the D3 I'm assuming? When do they plan on opening that section for traffic? ( I looked on wikipedia to see if I could find some information but it said it's been open since January of 2006...so not not a very reliable source)


If you mean that underpass it's not part of D3, it's railway. You can see D3 behind it.

The Skalité - PL border section is basically finished, but there's only few metres in use, then you must leave the motorway and continue on the II/487. Problem is section Skalité - PL border ends in the middle of meadow and it's useless (unless you drive a tractor) without adjacent section Svrčinovec - Skalité which construction hasn't started yet. These two sections will be opened simultaneously, it should be before 2015, but I don't know when exactly.


----------



## Chris80678

When is the S3 from Szczecin (interchange with A6) to Pyrzyce supposed to open? According to the motorway exit list website it is supposed to be this month :bash:


----------



## michael_siberia

Whole S3 Szczecin-Gorzów will be opened in September, this year.

@ michal_OMB
On the GDDKiA's map S8 westbounds from Białystok is signed as "in execution" (w realizacji). It's not the same as "under construction" (w budowie).


----------



## msz2

michael_siberia said:


> Whole S3 Szczecin-Gorzów will be opened in September, this year.
> 
> @ michal_OMB
> On the GDDKiA's map S8 westbounds from Białystok is signed as "in execution" (w realizacji). It's not the same as "under construction" (w budowie).


Shame that not in July, when people will be driving to the Baltic Sea to spend their holiday.hno:


----------



## Miguel_PL

Today's 'Le Monde' has written that Poland has no motorways at all and it's infrastructure is disastrous...


----------



## zagłębiak1

Yes. It is shame. Sometimes roads opened befor christmas or holiday. For example: S5 in Bydgoszcz or S10 in Stargard Szczeciński.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Miguel_PL said:


> Today's 'Le Monde' has written that Poland has no motorways at all and it's infrastructure is disastrous...


Welcome to western journalism. You'd be surprised to see how often they still write about the "eastern bloc" in the papers. It's really a shame. I once said to my colleague I wanted to go to Poland, and he couldn't imagine that, he said his image of Poland was "gray, dark, poor and criminal".


----------



## Biesiada

but according to polish "eastern' ? media holland is a country of pedophilia, drugs and islamic terrorism. not the brighest image indeed.


----------



## Dantiscum

^^ oh really? I didn't notice that


----------



## Barciur

me neither.. i'd like to see some examples.. but.. maybe not in this topic


----------



## Iluminat

Dantiscum said:


> ^^ oh really? I didn't notice that


don't you watch TV TRWAM or is your decoder broken :dunno:


----------



## msz2

Biesiada said:


> but according to polish "eastern' ? media holland is a country of pedophilia, drugs and islamic terrorism. not the brighest image indeed.


I heard that Holland is a drug country and gays love to live there, but pedophilia? I didn't notice that.


----------



## msz2

Question for Chris, if they write something about our plus GDP, whereas entire Europe is beating by the crisis.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, I think I've read about it one time in the Dutch media. Poland was the only economy that saw a GDP growth in 2009. Of course, I already knew this via other sources.


----------



## SeanT

pilos1 said:


> Stereotypes...I'm not suprised at all. That's how it is when people talks about things they've no clue or places they've never been...And if you ask some 17-years old kid about Poland, he'll say - jews, about Holland - gays & drugs, about USA - fat and stupid people. And I think it's not a crime to have your own opinion (even if this opinion is stupid and not true). But when jurnalists write things like this, then it's really shame cause many people will actuallly read it...


 There is som truth in this. We all like to see the world in black/white, good/evil, but we all know the world is slightly different.
I think that´s why when you hear about USA, dominating,stupid,fat and ignoring people, but ....with 200 million people!? So we all have these ideas of other countries but we just don´t think so long.hno::nuts::lol:


----------



## wojtop

ChrisZwolle said:


> Welcome to western journalism. You'd be surprised to see how often they still write about the "eastern bloc" in the papers. It's really a shame. I once said to my colleague I wanted to go to Poland, and he couldn't imagine that, he said his image of Poland was "gray, dark, poor and criminal".


The funny (well, not really funny but paradoxal) thing is that Polish press sometimes pictures countries further east (Russia, Belarus) as grey, dark, poor and criminal and many people believe it. Plain stupid but well, stereotypes are stereotypes. And yeah, the Netherlands have a very bad image in conservative circles and very positive in youth/liberal circles mostly thanks to legal marihuana and gay marriages. Windmills and tulips somehow became less of the Dutch symbol recently 

Nevermind, I guess this excellent map was not linked in this thread yet, it shows development of Polish motorways/highways from the 30s till now plus the roads being U/C at the moment and 99% likely to be completed by 2013. http://klszarak.org/stadiony/scc_a_s.swf
green - already in use at the given year
red - completed at the given year.


----------



## geogregor

SeanT said:


> I think that´s why when you hear about USA, dominating,stupid,fat and ignoring people, but ....with 200 million people!? So we all have these ideas of other countries but we just don´t think so long.hno::nuts::lol:


USA has over 308 million people at the moment. Just small correction


----------



## msz2

wojtop said:


> Nevermind, I guess this excellent map was not linked in this thread yet, it shows development of Polish motorways/highways from the 30s till now plus the roads being U/C at the moment and 99% likely to be completed by 2013. http://klszarak.org/stadiony/scc_a_s.swf
> green - already in use at the given year
> red - completed at the given year.


Nice map.


----------



## msz2

Construction of the bridge over Vistula river in Sandomierz DK-77:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TULdr0kmT0s


----------



## RipleyLV

S8 construction before Białystok started.


----------



## LMB

*We welcome the much needed change on those green boards!*










Welcome Brno, goodbye Boguszowice. 

(Pic by agustini_108)


----------



## Vallex

hey, thats my photo! :lol:


----------



## maciekph

LMB said:


> Welcome Brno, goodbye Boguszowice.
> 
> (Pic by agustini_108)


Finally!!! :banana:


----------



## Czas na Żywiec

And Bratislava is signed on S69. 










Photo by Prze-mo


----------



## Mateusz

That could be easily some kind of motorway entrance to the City itself


----------



## michal_OMB

*[A8] bypass Wroclaw*



625 said:


> http://www.e2012.eu/pl/najnowsze_zdjecia_lotnicze_inwestycji/1679/2/





625 said:


> http://www.e2012.eu/pl/najnowsze_zdjecia_lotnicze_inwestycji/1679/2/





625 said:


>


----------



## Chris80678

The A8 is coming along nicely let's hope it stays on schedule to partially open by the end of this year as Wrocław is in desperate need of a bypass 
More concrete on the motorway carriageway and slip roads would be nice though :lol:. At least by Dec it will be easier to get from the A4 to the airport without having to go through Wrocław


----------



## Piotr1234

Blaskovitz said:


> Visualization of the road DK10 in Szczecin.


Construction is expect to start most likely this year. I have more photos.


----------



## bebe.2006

S69 to Slovakia - no musik, just drive:



los77 said:


> Jeśli ktoś ma ochotę na przejazd z przejścia granicznego w Zwardoniu do Milówki drogą S69 to zapraszam :cheers:
> 
> Zwardoń - Milówka
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Milówka - Zwardoń


----------



## Barciur

I think the single-road expressway phenomenon is quite ridiculous - I mean I understand there may be low traffic in that area but after all they are allowing 110 km/h there (or am I wrong?) so IDK.. what do you guys think of those single road expressways?


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

As long as they leave room for expansion I don't see a problem with it.


----------



## TheFlyPL

Barciur said:


> after all they are allowing 110 km/h there (or am I wrong?)


Yeah, you're wrong. The single road expresway allows us to go 100kM/h. Only two or more roads on expresway allows to go 110kM/h.

In Germany/Austia there is allowed to go 100kM/h on simple road outside the city so I think that on this kind of road should be allowed 110kM/h.


----------



## maciekph

Barciur said:


> I think the single-road expressway phenomenon is quite ridiculous - I mean I understand there may be low traffic in that area but after all they are allowing 110 km/h there (or am I wrong?) so IDK.. what do you guys think of those single road expressways?


Frankly the reason is simple - money. If there is low traffic - then explanation for single-road expressway is smooth and easy so road authority saves money (get lower debt actually but that's not the point).
Just like I-275westcoastfl said - as long as there is easy possibility to expand on 2nd road - I'm ok with that.

Expressway without regular road junction is much more safer that regular road - you cannot (in theory) hit f.e. into drunk guy driving harvester or tractor going happily without lights :bash:


----------



## Rusonaldo

Motorway A2 in Poznań






Map


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

Desolated village in central Poland: future A2 Łódź - Warszawa corridor.



lukasek767 said:


> Witam. To mój debiut zatem wrzucam kilka fotek zrobionych dzisiaj na odcinku A w miejscowości Polesie niedaleko węzła Nieborów oraz na drodze gminnej Łyszkowice-Głowno, która przecina autostradę. Fotki nie są może tak spektakularne jak odcinek po olimpijce, ale ten fragment wogóle nie ma fotorelacji.............
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Polesie, widok w pasie autostrady w kierunku Stryków, co ciekawe jest droga gruntowa podobnie jak na olimpijce
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Polesie, opuszczone domy przeznaczone do wyburzenia, wioska ta zostanie przecięta na pół przez A2
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Polesie, opuszczone domy
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Polesie, widok w pasie autostrady w kierunku Konotopa
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Droga Łyszkowice-Głowno, na prawo od widocznej kępy drzew w przecince będzie wymarzona A2
> 
> 
> 
> 6. Widok na drogę Łyszkowice-Głowno i pas autostrady w kierunku Konotopa
> 
> 
> 
> 7. Widok na przecinkę w kierunku Stryków, Chińczycy będą musieli zasypać ten dół, chyba jest to pozostałość po pracach wydobywczych, bo obok są dwie żwirownie
> 
> 
> 
> 8. Maszyny sprzątają po drwalach
> 
> 
> Pozdrawiam wszystkich na SCC


----------



## bebe.2006

A lot of interesting pictures from road no. 8 (from Wrocław to the east)

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=415401&page=7


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

Recently opened bypass of Gostynin, city in central Poland. Fine example of 2+1 GP-class road. National Road 60 (DK60).


Argo28 said:


> Krótka fotorelacja z obwodnicy Gostynina
> 
> Jedziemy od Płocka w stronę Kutna


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## jacekfreeman

> ]


I think the wrong sign is used, shouldn't it be this one:







?


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## Blaskovitz

jacekfreeman said:


> I think the wrong sign is used, shouldn't it be this one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?


No? Becouse this is end of the lane?


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## jacekfreeman

On both signs it's the end of the lane... -.-, but in one situation the lane ends on a one-way route, while in the second (like the one in the photo) doesn't. It looks like the mix of two different signs...


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## Chris80678

I'll say one good thing for Poland they are better and much faster at building bypasses for small towns than they are motorways.
Many other small towns in Poland need bypasses though like Pułtusk, Ciechanów, Inowrocław. When is work going to start on finishing the S11 south of Ostrów Wlkp?


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## Rusonaldo

Some foto from A2 betwen Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl


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## Rusonaldo




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## ChrisZwolle

Nice progress. Are these pictures representative for the entire 105 km section?


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## Rusonaldo

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nice progress. Are these pictures representative for the entire 105 km section?


No, about 18 km


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## ChrisZwolle

How's the progress on the other sections?


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## Rusonaldo

A2 has 7 sections. 3 sections looks like this section. Anthoter 3 look slightly worse.

2 films


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## bebe.2006

New graphics:

1. in operation
2. under construction
3. completed per year

green = motorways / blue = dual carriageway expressways / purple = one carriageway expressways
red = dual carrageway roads together / black = all roads together



toonczyk said:


> 1.
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> 2.
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> 3.


* - The last graphics (3) contains for the years 2010-2012 only roads they are U/C or contract for construction is already signed.


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## kalibob32

im going to opole this summer and cant wait to try some of these new hwys. BUT ill be driving from warszawa so... maybe i wont get a chance...


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## msz2

S-7 (Kielce - Skarżysko section):



Piotrek_Suchedniów said:


> 03.04.10
> Suchedniów węzeł Zagórska --> ul.Żeromskiego


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## Blaskovitz

msz2 said:


> S-7 (Kielce - Skarżysko section):


Special place for 2x4?? 


To many photos on this page, plz next.


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## ChrisZwolle

I have a question for our Polish highway enthusiasts;

The "Obwodnica północna Krakowa" (northern bypass of Kraków) is currently partially under construction between DK7 and DK94 northwest of Kraków. Will this road feature full grade-separation (GP Class)? Will it also receive a number? 

I take it this northern bypass will connect to S7, but where exactly? You can see a section of S7 on the east side of Kraków under construction on Google Earth, but I wonder how they will extend S7 further north since the area is urban near the steel works of Nowa Huta.


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## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> Will this road feature full grade-separation (GP Class)? Will it also receive a number?


Yes, it will be grade-separated and will get a number (94?).

By the way, GP class does not require grade separation, even S class doesn't (but only in theory)



ChrisZwolle said:


> I take it this northern bypass will connect to S7, but where exactly?


http://i36.tinypic.com/2dhhbi8.gif


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## taleks

It could be GP or S, in case of S class it might be S79 (DK79 in Kraków - check it out). There are 2 versions, look here:
http://zielonki.pl/images/stories/obwodnica/obwodnica_19_03_2010_a4.pdf

And technical stuff, if you're interested:
http://zielonki.pl/images/stories/obwodnica/obwodnica_19_03_2010_a3.pdf


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## ChrisZwolle

There is already an S79 in Warszawa.

2x3 for this road is a very smart decision at hourly volumes of 6,500 combined. That roughly translates to ~65,000 - 70,000 vehicles per day.


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## Sponsor

ChrisZwolle said:


> There is already an S79 in Warszawa.


It doesn't collide


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## taleks

DK7 is not the only one national road between Kraków and Warsaw. There's DK79 as well. And the Kraków's part might be S79 soon. We hope so


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## bebe.2006

Construction of A2 from Warszawa to Łódź:



bzooora said:


>


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## Jakub Warszauer

^^^^^^
With God's help... we're gonna make it before EURO2012


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## Sasza

^^
Yeah, that's a good point


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## Marbur66

Jakub Warszauer said:


> ^^^^^^
> *With God's help*... we're gonna make it before EURO2012


If you're relying on god's help, you're going to be in a lot of trouble. :lol:


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## Rusonaldo

5 films from A2.

Map



1






2






3






4






5


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## bebe.2006

http://www.faz.net/s/Rub0E9EEF84AC1...738D5DB930230B0E95~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html










Spekulationen über Beihilfen
Polens Autobahn aus chinesischer Hand
Von Bernd Freytag

Beim Bau der Autobahn von Warschau nach Berlin ist noch viel zu tun
08. April 2010
Für die Polen sind es kaum 50 Kilometer billige Autobahn, für die Chinesen ist es der große Schritt auf den europäischen Baumarkt, für die Europäische Kommission eine heikle Angelegenheit und für Ulrich Paetzold nichts weniger als ein Skandal. „Es gibt kein privatwirtschaftliches Unternehmen, das mit der Volksrepublik China konkurrieren kann“, sagt er.

Seit Wochen schon läuft der Hauptgeschäftsführer des europäischen Bauverbandes Fiec Sturm. An den EU-Präsidenten hat er sich gewandt, den Präsidenten des Europäischen Parlaments und an den Präsidenten der Europäischen Investitionsbank - alle mauern. Zweimal musste sich EU-Wettbewerbskommissar Charles McCreevy bitten lassen, bevor er eine Anfrage aus dem EU-Parlament beantwortete. Gefruchtet hat bislang nichts.


Baubranche klagt über Desinteresse aus Brüssel

Das neue Stadion von Warschau mit einer Kapazität von 55.000 Zuschauern soll bereits ein Jahr vor der EM fertig sein
Die europäische Bauindustrie fürchtet, dass sie im wirtschaftspolitischen Schachspiel mit China zum Bauernopfer werden könnte. Europäer wollen in China Autos verkaufen und Kraftwerke, da zählen die Belange der meist kleinteiligen Bauwirtschaft wenig. 10 Prozent der europäischen Wirtschaftsleistung entfällt auf die Bauwirtschaft, und sie stellt 7,6 Prozent aller Beschäftigten, so viel wie kein anderer Produktionszweig in Europa, trotzdem findet sie in Brüssel kaum Gehör. „Es gibt ein erschreckendes Desinteresse in den europäischen Institutionen.“

Seit die China Overseas Engineering Group Company (Covec) Ende vergangenes Jahr die Ausschreibungen zum Bau von zwei Teilabschnitten der Autobahn A2 zwischen Warschau und Lodz gewonnen hat, ist die europäische Baubranche in Aufruhr. Angeblich um mehr als 40 Prozent hat Covec die erwarteten Kosten der polnischen Autobahnverwaltung unterboten, das Angebot des zweitplazierten Konsortiums sollen die Chinesen noch um mehr als ein Viertel gedrückt haben.

Zum Thema

Abschied vom Bau
F.A.Z.-Konjunkturbericht: Europa als Schlusslicht
Polen und die Ukraine: Anpfiff auf Europas größter Baustelle
Die Wogen schlagen hoch, zumal Covec als hundertprozentige Tochtergesellschaft der chinesischen Bahn dem chinesischen Staat gehört und der Ausbau der A2 mit 500 Millionen Euro Kredit der Europäischen Investitionsbank (EIB) gefördert wird - also mit europäischen Steuergeldern. Formal war die Ausschreibung rechtens: Auch europäischen Staatsunternehmen - die es auf dem Bausektor aber nicht mehr gibt - wäre es möglich, sich um einen Auftrag zu bewerben, allerdings würde sie gründlich auf unerlaubte Staatshilfen untersucht. Nach Ansicht der Fiec hat es diese Nachfragen bei Covec nicht gegeben. Obwohl offensichtlich sei, dass die A-2-Verträge unter den gegebenen rechtlichen Bestimmungen nicht eingehalten werden könnten.

Zweifelhafte Bankgarantie
Die Europäer vermuten direkte Hilfen der Covec durch den chinesischen Staat, und sie bemängeln, dass es den Chinesen erlaubt wurde, eine Bankgarantie einer in der EU nicht zugelassenen Bank vorzulegen: immerhin hatte der Konzern sein auch nach Ansicht der Auftraggeber „ungewöhnlich niedriges“ Gebot auch damit begründet, er benötige keine teuren Kredite, um das Geschäft vorzufinanzieren.

Die Liste der Zweifel ist lang: Wie könne Covec als Neuling in Europa Größenvorteile beim Materialeinkauf erzielen? Wieso musste der Konzern keine detaillierte Kostenplanung abgeben? Können chinesische Arbeiter zu chinesischen Löhnen in Europa beschäftigt werden, ohne europäische Arbeitsschutzbestimmungen zu brechen? Kurz gesagt: Die Europäer argwöhnen, dass das niedrige Gebot nur zustande kam, weil der chinesische Staat mögliche Verluste trägt, um endlich ein prestigeträchtiges europäisches Referenzprojekt vorweisen zu können.

Staatliche Hilfen wären zwar illegal, aufwendige Beihilfeverfahren gegen China wird es aber nicht geben. Das Beihilferecht solle eigentlich Wettbewerbsverzerrungen durch illegale staatliche Beihilfen verhindern, für Beihilfen außerhalb der EU gelte dies aber nicht, sagt Paetzold. „Das ist grenzenlos naiv.“ Den Vorwurf des Nationalismus weißt er zurück. „Wenn staatliche Unternehmen ungehindert auf den Markt kommen, wird der Wettbewerb kaputtgemacht.“

Chinesischer Markt bleibt abgeschottet
Wettbewerbsgleichheit jedenfalls gibt es nicht. Während chinesische Staatsfirmen mit Macht auf den europäischen Baumarkt drängen, ist der riesige, mit einem milliardenschweren Konjunkturprogramm gestützte heimische Markt de facto für Ausländer abgeschottet. Die deutschen Branchenführer Bilfinger Berger und Hochtief beispielsweise bauen beide überhaupt nicht mehr in China, allenfalls noch das ein oder andere Prestigeobjekt in Hongkong (siehe: Abschied vom Bau). „Wenn wir ein chinesisches Bauunternehmen kaufen könnten, wäre das nicht in Einklang mit unsere Corporate-Governance-Kriterien zu bringen“, sagte einer aus der Branche.

Die Politik hält sich zurück: Die Europäische Investitionsbank verweist darauf, dass für eine Co-Finanzierung lediglich maßgeblich ist, ob das Vergabeverfahren europäischen Vergaberichtlinien genüge. Und die EU-Kommission kontert mit dem Hinweis, es seien zwar grundsätzlich nur Bieter aus dem europäischen Wirtschaftsraum zu berücksichtigen oder aus solchen Ländern, mit denen ein internationales Beschaffungsabkommen geschlossen wurde - beides trifft auf China nicht zu -, dennoch sei es Mitgliedstaaten erlaubt, im Einzelfall auch andere Teilnehmer zuzulassen.

Polen bereitet sich auf die EM 2012 vor
Die Polen jedenfalls stehen unter Druck: Ihr Fernstraßennetz muss bis zum Beginn der Fußball-Europameisterschaft im Juni 2012 modernisiert werden (siehe: Polen und die Ukraine: Anpfiff auf Europas größter Baustelle). Für sie hat sich das Geschäft mit den Chinesen gelohnt. In diesen Tagen beginnen die Arbeiten, ein Großteil der Arbeiter wird wohl direkt aus China kommen. Covec suche aber auch in Polen nach Ingenieuren und biete erstaunlich gute Löhne, heißt es. Die Chinesen werden beste Arbeit abliefern, sie wollen schließlich ins ganz große Geschäft.

Die Bewerbung für weitere Projekte läuft: Alleine der Entwicklungsplan für das polnische Straßenbaunetz sieht bis 2012 schließlich Investitionen über 27,5 Milliarden Euro vor, fast ein Drittel davon über EU-Fonds finanziert. Und Covec hat schon weitere Märkte ins Visier genommen. Vize-Chef Zhao Xiang sagte kürzlich, auch Infrastrukturprojekte in Bulgarien, Rumänien und Ungarn seien interessant.

Text: F.A.Z.
Bildmaterial: AFP, dpa


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## Barciur

Thanks for a German article in English topic


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## Jakub Warszauer

[S8] Warsaw's northern expressway bypass (renovation, replacment of interchanges & upgrade to S-class), section on the right bank of Vistula. 
+ medium-level evening rush hour
+ nice aerials of Warsaw's downtown


larzwo said:


> *obiekt 13T*
> 
> oś 6
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> ***
> 
> oś4
> 
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> ***
> 
> widok osie 6 - 11.
> 
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> ***
> 
> widok oś 11. w tle obiekt 46T
> 
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> ***
> 
> oś 1
> 
> 
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> *****************************​
> *obiekt 21T*
> 
> ***
> 
> oś 1
> 
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> ***
> 
> oś 1
> 
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> ***
> 
> widok osie 9-11. w tle łącznica 6T
> 
> 
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> widoczki
> 
> ***
> łącznica 6T
> 
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> ***
> most Grota
> 
> 
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> ***
> nasze wieżowce


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## RipleyLV

^^ That's a nice view!


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## seem

Do you know when will be S69 finished from the slovak border to Bielsko-Biała?


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## bigalowski

Works on a long awaited Świdnica A4 corridor are due to be under way any day soon. More in polish at: 

http://wroclaw.naszemiasto.pl/artyk...swidnicy-do-wroclawia,id,t.html?kategoria=693


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## ufonut

Great photos of S3 (U/C) by Jacyk 

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=496160&page=263


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## ufonut

WARSAW, Poland – A Polish conservationist has won a key environment prize for leading a campaign that stopped a giant expressway from cutting through one of the Europe's last swaths of undisturbed wilderness.

Malgorzata Gorska, an activist with the Polish Society for the Protection of Birds, was named one of six winners of this year's Goldman Environmental Prize, a $150,000 (euro110,000) cash award informally known as the "Green Nobel."

The 35-year-old was recognized for her leadership in harnessing European Union regulations to stop the planned expressway from cutting through the Rospuda Valley.

The valley contains a peat bog surrounded by a virgin pine forest that is home to eagles, wolves, lynx and wild orchids.


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## michal_OMB

seem said:


> Do you know when will be S69 finished from the slovak border to Bielsko-Biała?


I think that in 2012/2013


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## seem

^^

Thank you. Time for Slovakia to start construction of motorway D3. We will see how it will be with the EU funding for this motorway. There are more important sections of our motorway network to bulid up so we "haven`t" enough money for that road.


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## msz2

S-7 between Radom and Warsaw, pictures made by RaV from Polish forum:




RaV... said:


> ta sama kładka widok na Grójec
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> widok na Białobrzegi
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> w tle typowy Grójecki krajobraz, sady po horyzont
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> schodze po zachodniej stronie S7
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> widok do tyłu na kładke z poprzednich zdjęć
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> cdn.


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## ChrisZwolle

If I'm correct, all of the S3 from Szczecin to the Czech border is now approved, tendered or under construction.

Does this mean the entire road will be completed by 2013?


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## Mateusz

Not really,although there is environmental decision all way through between Zielona Góra na Lubawka


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## MAG

For your information, guys, 19 bid applications have been received by the GDDKiA (Highways Agency) for the completion of the southernmost part of the A1. 

Just to remind you, last year work on this stretch of the A1 was stopped due to 'inadequate progress being made' by Alpine Bau GmbH, the motorway building syndicate leader. Since the contract was terminated, GDDKiA and Alpine Bau have been at each other's throats, slinging mud and accusations at each other and trying to resolve the matter through the courts (see for example here).

The interesting thing is that on the list of 19 companies applying to bid for the newly announced A1 contract, Alpine Bau features as one of the interested parties at number 7 (follow the PDF link in this link). 

The big questions is this: is Alpine Bau in the running because they want another bite at the cherry or have they joined in the bidding to stir things up? Under Polish public contract law, losing bidders can lodge appeals after the contract winner is announced.

The next few weeks will be quite interesting. 
I've already bought lots of pop corn and will be observing this unfolding political farce with great interest.


.


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## ufonut

A8 Bypass of Wroclaw (AOW)



takisobiektoś;55591033 said:


> *17.04.2010r.*
> 
> Węzeł Nowa Wieś Wrocławska od zachodu. Likwidowany jest stary wiadukt
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> Panorama wiaduktów nad polderami i doliną Odry. Widok od wschodu
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> Wiadukt nad Polderami. Widok od południa
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> Budowa mostu.Widok od północy
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> Widok od południa
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> Estakady i most widziany od wschodu
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> Widok od południa od Żernickiej do Odry
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> I jeszcze dwa z 16.04. Węzeł Widawa. Widok od zachodu.
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> Węzeł Widawa. Widok od wschodu.
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> 
> źródło: Władysław Kluczewski oraz @gerg http://wroclaw.hydral.com.pl/21426,obiekt.html


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## seem

^^That "wiadukt" is there because of floods?


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## jwojcie

^^
Yeap, it is also terrain where "natural sewage treatment" takes place (but due to current extension of modern sewage treatment plant this function will probably be obsolete in future, recultivation of the terrain can take some time though.


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## Czas na Żywiec

Today they greenlighted the construction of A4 from interchanges Rzeszów Zachód to Rzeszów Centralny (4 km) as well as the S19 from interchanges Rzeszów Zachód to Świlcza (4,4 km). Source from GDDKiA website.

http://translate.google.com/transla.../c6944e46a26a116ba90bf36c35d7f9ea&sl=pl&tl=en


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## Jakub Warszauer

Expressway [S7], section between Warsaw and Radom, junction with Regional Road no. 730. (DW730)



RaV... said:


> miejscowość Widów
> widok na Radom
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> na wawe
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> węzeł Skurów
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> widok na Radom, łącznica Radom>DW 730 i DW 730>wawa
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> obrót w lewo
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> widok na wawe
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> obrót w lewo, łącznica DW 730>Radom i wawa>DW 730 następne zdjęcie z tej łącznicy
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> widok na węzeł od strony Grójca
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> obrót do tyłu
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> uff. koniec


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## E2rdEm

kay:

*Driving video of not-yet-opened S3 near Szczecin:*

:dj:



JacYk said:


> *Film z przejazdu, po S3 od WD-38 do węzła "Pyrzyce".*
> 
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> Polecam w jakości HD 720p (w 1080p nie każdy komp i łącze, to udźwignie).
> *Koniecznie oglądajcie z dźwiękiem.*
> 
> Miłego oglądania i wytrwałości, bo film trwa 9.25min.


:applause: @JacYk


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## GrimFadango

By Moloch, esce, latajacy_dywan
:master:

Green - done| Red - u/c | Magenta - project & bulid | Yellow - tender | Brown - tender for project & bulid | Blue - enviromental decision (DSU)

Motorway - _junction / half-junction / *tolled part* / toll junction / toll plaza_ *scroll----->*
Expressway - 2x2 and up
Expressway - 1x2
DK - 2x2, 1x4
DD - 1x2, 1x3 etc.


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## Jakub Warszauer

Construction of S7 section Występa - Skarżysko Kamienna (between Kielce and Skarżysko Kamienna)


GrzesiekCK said:


> Kilka strzał z okolic węzła Zalezianka (zdjęcia robione komórką więc bez rewelacji ale zawsze to coś):
> 
> ^^ Czerwonym kolorem zaznaczyłem obszar jaki udało mi się sfotografować.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 1. Kierunek - Radom. WD11.
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> 2. Kierunek - Kielce
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> 3. Wielkość wykopu robi duże wrażenie.
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> 4. Równanie podłoża pod jednie.
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> 5. Na moje oko od miejsca w którym stałem do jezdni było jakieś 20 metrów różnicy.
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> 6. Kierunek - Radom.
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> 7. W oddali widać estakadę.
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> 8. Węzeł Zalezianka widziany od dołu. Obecnie trwają jakieś prace wykończeniowe.
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> (...)


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## msz2

^^Nice progress in the construction of the S-7.


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## bigalowski

Wroclaw Eastern ring road isn't highlighted! I'm awaiting some news concerning S5: Wrocław - State Frontier (near Boboszów) and Szczecin - Gdańsk.






GrimFadango said:


> By Moloch, esce, latajacy_dywan
> :master:
> 
> Green - done| Red - u/c | Magenta - project & bulid | Yellow - tender | Brown - tender for project & bulid | Blue - enviromental decision (DSU)
> 
> Motorway - _junction / half-junction / *tolled part* / toll junction / toll plaza_ *scroll----->*
> Expressway - 2x2 and up
> Expressway - 1x2
> DK - 2x2, 1x4
> DD - 1x2, 1x3 etc.
> 
> http://ssc-mapa.googlecode.com/svn-history/r108/trunk/nowa-mapa.png[/IMG]


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## PLH

bigalowski said:


> Wroclaw Eastern ring road isn't highlighted!


Because it's neither A nor S.


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## X236K

GrimFadango said:


> By Moloch, esce, latajacy_dywan
> :master:
> 
> Green - done| Red - u/c | Magenta - project & bulid | Yellow - tender | Brown - tender for project & bulid | Blue - enviromental decision (DSU)
> 
> Motorway - _junction / half-junction / *tolled part* / toll junction / toll plaza_ *scroll----->*
> Expressway - 2x2 and up
> Expressway - 1x2
> DK - 2x2, 1x4
> DD - 1x2, 1x3 etc.


A1 from Rybnik to Czech border is U/C, isn't it...?


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Not anymore, the contract was canceled because of incompetency by the contractor. GDDKiA is now re-tendering this project. Deadline remains 2012 though.


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## X236K

^^ Right... I remember now... what is the construction stage the first contractor got to..?


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## toonczyk

^^ About 50-60% is done. Most ground works are finished, 8 out of 33 build structures (overpasses etc.) are ready or almost ready.


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## ufonut

A2



Carte said:


> Źródło i więcej zdjęć lotniczych z 13 kwietnia: *http://www.autostrada-a2.pl/pl/o-nas/informacje-z-budowy/1/kwiecien-2010.html*


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## bigalowski

Sure, just as the other non A and S roads shown on that map. However it only shows those that are currently in use.



PLH said:


> Because it's neither A nor S.


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## ChrisZwolle

This sign makes you wonder which world-class city Jakuszyce is to get signed 395 kilometers in advance.









Ah, there it is. 100 inhabitants :nuts:


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## Czas na Żywiec

Even more strange is that Jakuszyce isn't even a village but a district of the town of Szklarska Poręba. You can tell because the sign is white while signs for towns in Poland are typically on a green background. Gotta love Polish law.


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## RipleyLV

ChrisZwolle said:


> This sign makes you wonder which world-class city Jakuszyce is to get signed 395 kilometers in advance.


And it makes you wonder why is it blue?


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## ChrisZwolle

Hmm, no? Should S-roads get green signs? I never really paid attention to that.


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## Jakub Warszauer

Expressways have green signs in PL.


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## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> Hmm, no? Should S-roads get green signs? I never really paid attention to that.


This sign is wrong and will be replaced.


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## Chris80678

Blue is for motorway signs :bash: not expressways


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## Mateusz

ChrisZwolle said:


> This sign makes you wonder which world-class city Jakuszyce is to get signed 395 kilometers in advance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, there it is. 100 inhabitants :nuts:


And S3 will end in Lubawka, not Jakuszyce. Some people in road administration should think more sometimes


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## ufonut

Number of deaths on Polish roads:

January to April 2009 - 1232
January to April 2010 - 778


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Interesting development, do you have a (Polish?) source?


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## piotr71

Try this. Police web page:
http://dlakierowcow.policja.pl/portal/dk/807/Statystyka.html


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## bigalowski

The construction of the A8 Odra bridge bypass of Wrocław (1.8 km)











The same image seen in August 2009


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## asahi

^^ Dunno why, but I can't see the photos... Is it just me?


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## Blaskovitz

^^ me too


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## panda80

^^me too...


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## PLH

Check now


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## RipleyLV

PLH said:


> Check now


It works. Nice trick, PLH.


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## msz2

S-7 under construction:









Wyburzanie starego mostu:






Kładka nad S-7, widok w stronę Kielc:

















Wiadukt w ciągu S-7 nad drogą lokalną, okolice Ostojowa lub Łącznej:













Kładka w Występie:


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## msz2

Existing S-7:


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## ChrisZwolle

msz2 said:


> S-7 under construction:


Which part? S7 is about 720 kilometers long...


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## mikhal77

^^These are the pictures of S7 between Kielce and Skarzysko,both finished and under construction


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## msz2

ChrisZwolle said:


> Which part? S7 is about 720 kilometers long...


You can conclude from the last photo [green sign].


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## GrimFadango

Thanks msz2 for these pictures


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## Sponsor

I believe this is *the only* motorway sign with 3 arrows allocated to 3 lanes in Poland...


mbiela said:


>


And how does it usually look like? 








_@*esce*_


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## PLH

Sponsor said:


> I believe this is *the only* motorway sign with 3 arrows allocated to 3 lanes in Poland...


Sadly yes, because it is quasi unofficial. But I believe this idea will catch on.


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## Nafianna

*polska autostrady*

Hi all,


I have spent the last few weeks going through this thread. its amazing.
Poland is flying with its motorways. All the polish workers must be flooding back home with all this work on their doorsteps. Great photos and info supplied by you all.

I have been looking for something like this for years. it will take me lifetime to go through all the countries on skyscraper.

some highlights for me are vistula balanced cantilever bridge and Wroclaw by pass "launch" bridge.

I see also you have many foreign companies in poland to keep up with demand
like mota engil from portugal and dtp (france) alpine mayreder ( austria).

does any body have photos of the earthmoving operations on these contracts. i see alot of bridge works and signage. i would love to know how they shift all those millions of m3 etc. no problem if you don't, i love it anyway. 

keep up the good work guys.

dobjay dobjay


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## toonczyk

^^ We have companies from all around the world building our roads - Strabag (Austria), Skanska (Sweden), J&P Avax (Greece), COVEC (China)...

And if you like groundworks, here is something for you. Construction of A1 near Pyrzowice, great photos by *esce*:


esce said:


> *30.04.2010 - autostrada A1 - Pyrzowice - Piekary Śląskie*
> 
> 1. Wykop w Podmyszkowicach - okolice 477km autostrady. Panorama.
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> 3. Reszta fotek bez opisów - po prostu obrazy z budowy
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## Chris80678

When the S3 (E65 3) between Szczecin and Gorzów Wlkp opens for use in September will the existing E65 3 between these two cities be renumbered to avoid confusion? I suggest that when finances allow the current E65 3 between Szczecin and Gorzów Wlkp could be torn up as I should think that all drivers will use the (free) S3 expressway between Szczecin and Gorzów Wlkp so having two free roads parallel to each other is ridiculous and the material from tearing up the existing E65 3 could be re-used in the construction of Poland's motorways?


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## Martin KV

*Highways literature*

Hi all,

does anyone can help me with one issue concerning polish highways? I´d like to write a dissertation (graduation thesis) about motorways in Poland. But first of all, my university professor asks me for some literature. I told him, that there is a very good web site on the internet (www.gddkia.gov.pl), as this will be my main source, but, you know, he wants me to tell him some books about your highways.

Does anyone knows some of them? Can you tell me? Writer + name of the book?

Thanks a lot,
Martin KV
Czech Rep.


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## PLH

^^ Try opening a new thread in this section:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=240


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## Blaskovitz

DK1 Łysomice - Świecie


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## piotr71

Blaskovitz said:


> DK1 Łysomice - Świecie
> [


Looks like someone has visited the Netherlands. I really love carriageways being separated in this way. It makes me feel safe.


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## ChrisZwolle

What's the latest on the renovation of A18?


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## MAG

ChrisZwolle said:


> What's the latest on the renovation of A18?


According to the high-level overview (STANDiA, as of 30 Apr) the project has completed the preparation of new evidence in support of the environmental impact of renovating the south carriageway. The work was due in on 30 Apr so it is now being disseminated to and considered by people with the right competencies. I do not want to speculate when actual building work might begin. Suffice it to say that is unlikely to be this year.

Just to remind you, the A18 cuts through a dense forest and hence through many areas of outstanding natural beauty endorsed by Natura 2000. The road also disrupts natural migration paths of wild animals, including the wolf, and so it is not surprising that the green lobby want many ecoducts to be built – we are talking one every 2-3 km – as a shining example to the rest of EU of how things should be done.

There is understandable friction between the greens and the pragmatists on this issue. The south carriageway is in a very bad way and needs urgent repair but until a proper consultation has taken place, not a single inch of this road will be touched by anyone.

.


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## ChrisZwolle

So it looks like the main concern is not the renovation itself, but the motorway status? Anyway, it's quite pathetic. Is there any chance they can "enforce" so many ecoducts? Is there a law that says it's mandatory to have ecoducts every 3 km?

Building a few ecoducts may not be a bad idea, but 20 or 30 of them looks like severe overkill.


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## MAG

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is there a law that says it's mandatory to have ecoducts every 3 km?


It is not so much the Law as the specificity of this area and its dense forests, which act as a natural habitat for many animals. When the road was first built in the 1930s, nobody gave a hoot about the environment - I daresay the word did not even exist. Today, we live in a more balanced and wiser world and need to consider how we interact with Nature.

On a practical level, there is a lot of large animals living in the forests around the A18. Having a collision with a deer or even a boar while driving at 130 km/h can only end up in tears. So the greens are right in pointing this out that there is a pragmatic need to build ecoducts. But I am not convinced that the level of extra investment in ecoducts, as demanded by the greens, is fully justified.

The assessment document is out. If I get hold of a copy I'll publish a short digest of its main points.

Finally, the EU, who are part-funding the project, demand that a proper environmental impact assessment is carried out. So the GDDKiA has no leg to stand on and must comply.




ChrisZwolle said:


> Building a few ecoducts may not be a bad idea, but 20 or 30 of them looks like severe overkill.


I hope that a common-sense compromise will be found. Time will tell.


.


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## mapman:cz

In my point of view, ecoduts or bridges combined with fences and walls are a proper solution, and not so expensive!

In southern Moravia authorities are planing to build and new stretch of R55 expressway right next to existing railway that ist cutting through Natura 2000 (SPA - birds). Current plans include 7 km of tunnels in a totally flat land where no man lives... That's a real toughie. ... BTW, how many ecoduts are there planned? On how many kms?


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## MAG

mapman:cz said:


> ... BTW, how many ecoduts are there planned? On how many kms?


Don't know about plans but the submission was for 30 ecoducts (overpasses), 100 m each, spread over the ~71 km. This is an unconfirmed report and potentially unreliable. I do not know how many underpasses/tunnels were requested for reptiles, small mammals etc.

So the current battle is about how green this project should be. The road must be re-built responsibly but as you can see it is not so easy to decide where the middle ground lies with respect to being green, on the one hand, and being pragmatic about being green, on the other hand, if you get my drift.


.


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## mapman:cz

Phew, 30, that's really too much...

As I see, A18 crosses Natura 2000 area in approx. 35 kms, that's probably the main issue... Is there som kind of protected area also western from Iłowa?


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## MAG

mapman:cz said:


> ... As I see, A18 crosses Natura 2000 area in approx. 35 kms, that's probably the main issue... Is there som kind of protected area also western from Iłowa?


Yeah, that's the main clash but there are smaller NATURA 2000 areas west of Iłowa as well. 

Here is a link, courtesy of Siskom (click), that illustrates some of the issues. Of course, this is a multi-faceted and complex problem and there are other issues to consider such as migration paths, noise, pollution and the sheer barrier that a fully enclosed road presents to animals. 

Until recently, DK18 was not fenced off so animals could freely wander across the single carriageway. Now that a motorway is being considered, which will be fully fenced off, the barrier aspect must be dealt with using the guiding principle that what you take away you must put back (eco balance preservation).


.


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## mapman:cz

Of course, I agree with this... I'm writing a thesis on topic of legal aspects of environmental protection during planing and construction of roads and other types of "ways" in the Czech rep. and I'm dealing with many of these topics like EIA, fragmentation evaluation etc etc... It's good to know something about other countries in this context.. thanks...


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## ChrisZwolle

These environmentalist mafia always gets carried away... you give them one finger - they want the whole hand - at the taxpayers behalf. 

I mean, it's not like there are plans for dozens of new motorways through Lubuskie. I think everybody can make their peace with 3 or 4 ecoducts. But 30? I mean, that's pure insanity.


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## MAG

ChrisZwolle said:


> ... I think everybody can make their peace with 3 or 4 ecoducts. But 30? I mean, that's pure insanity.


:cheers1: ..... :yes:

I have to stress, the figure of 30 is second-hand info, though from a guy who is normally very reliable.



.


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## ufonut

"Gniazdo kaczki krzyżówki, wysiadującej 10 jaj, wywołało spore zamieszanie przy budowie ważnego fragmentu autostrady A1 w żorskiej dzielnicy Rowień. Ptak wywołał na budowie alarm, bo uwił sobie domek w bezpośrednim sąsiedztwie budowanego właśnie, długiego na 300 metrów mostu. Na miejsce wezwano służby ekologiczne, które nie pozwoliły ruszać gniazda. Wszyscy z zapartym tchem czekają, aż pisklaki się wyklują.

Robotnicy pilnują teraz kaczki jak oka w głowie. - Nadzór ekologiczny kazał nam się poruszać na paluszkach, omijać teren z daleka. Tylko raz dziennie możemy doglądać gniazda, by sprawdzać, czy wykluwają się małe. Takie procedury. Chodzi o to, by nie wystraszyć kaczki, by nie opuściła małych - doniósł nam jeden z pracujących w pobliżu budowlańców.

W firmie żartują, że to kaczka dziwaczka, bo uwiła sobie gniazdo akurat na samym środku budowy olbrzymiego mostu, w pobliżu pracuje ciężki sprzęt, a roboty można było kontynuować po zabezpieczeniu gniazda. "





A1 construction - a duck sitting on 10 eggs in a nest caused an alarm effectively stopping construction of a 300m long bridge. Environmental services immediately ordered the construction to be halted and everyone "holding their breath" is now avaiting the eggs to hatch so that the construction can resume  Eco oversight people told the workers to "walk on their toes" as to not to disturb the duck.


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## mapman:cz

ChrisZwolle said:


> These environmentalist mafia always gets carried away... you give them one finger - they want the whole hand - at the taxpayers behalf.
> 
> I mean, it's not like there are plans for dozens of new motorways through Lubuskie. I think everybody can make their peace with 3 or 4 ecoducts. But 30? I mean, that's pure insanity.


Yeah, protecting animals and environment is now very "modern" esp. for young people, that are not experienced enough to see how far they can "go" with their requirements.

Ecologists shall point out let's say max 10 main corridors (i.e. one each 5-10 km) where animals tend to cross the road and there should be possibility to build an ecoduct or a migration bridge for the roadway bridging such corridor. I guess many of you have seen pics from Prague Ring road construction and those 3 neighbouring ecoducts, there's a "funny" story behind that - someone from envirnomental department came to the person responsible for the stretch and demanded those ecoducts, she was busy with sth else and just said "add whatever you want to that project just don't make problems" :nuts:


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## bleetz

Eco duct every 1 km.? Damn Polish greens are getting carried away.


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## Sasza

^^
You know... give them finger (Rospuda Valley) they will eat whole arm. It's sad but true. Hey, protect environment is important but we've got brains! After decades of destroying environment now greens try to...? Do what?
If you don't know what is going on, it's about money, as we say in Poland


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## ufonut

*S11 - western bypass of Poznan*

Photos by Carte



Carte said:


> Kilka zdjęć z okolicy przyszłego węzła z A2:


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## GrimFadango

Carte, as always, amaizing photos!


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## bleetz

These new Polish road constructions are music to my eyes. Beautiful stuff.


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## bleetz

Sasza said:


> ^^
> You know... give them finger (Rospuda Valley) they will eat whole arm. It's sad but true. Hey, protect environment is important but we've got brains! After decades of destroying environment now greens try to...? Do what?
> If you don't know what is going on, it's about money, as we say in Poland


Yes, Rospuda valley was a huge loss to people with common sense. Funnily enough those people are now receiving various awards and are portrayed as heroes all over the press just because they have saved a tiny bit of grass. I guess its quite a good business being a parasite. 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/cif-green/2010/apr/19/how-to-successful-activist


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## Fuzzy Llama

^^ Expressway through Rospuda valley was totally mad idea. It required building bridges over kilometres of swamplands and 'NATURA2000' protected areas (<- no funding from EU!) and was considered only because it didn't require painful process of buying the land from several separate farmers. And (and I totally mean 'in addition'), the Valley IS a pristine piece of land and it is worth preserving when a (better!) alternative is available.


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## jwojcie

^^
I concur with that, as far as I support road building program, Rospuda valley is beautiful and unique place. Destroing it especially when THERE IS alternative route would be total madness or Mad Max ;-) ...


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## ufonut

A6 interchange "Klucz" (English: "Key") with S3 

Photos by Jacyk


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## ufonut

A2 (U/C) Swiecko-Nowy Tomysl

Photos by Carte














































More:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=389291&page=161


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## brewerfan386

Awesome update, nice find 
They build freeways so different in Europe then in North America, especially in the 1st pic above with that overpass all by its lonesome with no dirt or any thing around it.


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## Sasza

jwojcie said:


> ^^
> I concur with that, as far as I support road building program, Rospuda valley is beautiful and unique place. Destroing it especially when THERE IS alternative route would be total madness or Mad Max ;-) ...


It's not unique, it's... unnatural. Whole that forest etc etc is made by man!
Believe me if someone wait for bypass for almost 40 years and then some green terrorist from... Silesia, Warsaw tell that we can wait another 10-20 years, that made me (and not only me) really pissed of!
And another funny thing is, that there is now a road with end... in middle of nowhere. Because yes it was building already!
As I see be "green" is even more popular in Poland, than in Western Europe.
And destroying? It was planned well but hell yeah, you would be never able again to swim canoe in Rospuda, with is more destructive for environment. And you still can use Czarna Hańcza and Augustowski Kanał instead. 

But for people like you it is so simple. Took away money for this region. 
And what's the funniest thing in middle '90, "Warsaw" told "Bypass of Augustow and Suwalki can't be so long! Let's build it through Rospuda Valley!". Because modern plan of bypass through S61 is the oldest one, the first. It could be build a long, long time ago. But it was "too long". Funny huh?

At present our "green heroes" trying to do something even worse. A18 is strategical road, not just for Poland but for Europe too. But people like you give for them power. Today they stop rebuilding Autostrada, tomorrow...?


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## Chris80678

Does anybody know when the A6 upgrade/modernisation between the interchange with national road 10 and the interchange with Tczewska and national road 142 will be completed? The crossroads at Tczewska is far too dangerous as it is hno: and the current S3 between Szczecin (interchange Kijewo) and Rzęśnica (142) needs signing as A6 soon :bash: It will only be another 8km (5 miles) of motorway for Poland but it is urgently needed to make the road safer. I would like to see the A6 extended as far north as Goleniów.


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## MAG

Rospuda Valley and the planned renovation of the A18 is like comparing apples and oranges. Any discussion on this topic is likely to polarise us, just like it did on the Polish subforum. So I choose to stay out of this discussion, save to say that I am all for building responsibly and 'green' but with my pragmatic hat firmly on.

Changing the topic slightly - the above pictures of the A2, S3 an S11 are like poetry to me and incredibly uplifting. 
And I just hope that someone remembers to remove that 'STOP' sign on the S3 eastbound slip road at 3:54. 




Chris80678 said:


> Does anybody know when the A6 upgrade/modernisation between the interchange with national road 10 and the interchange with Tczewska and national road 142 will be completed? ...


Look here, guv - click.


.


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## jwojcie

Sasza said:


> It's not unique, it's... unnatural. Whole that forest etc etc is made by man!
> Believe me if someone wait for bypass for almost 40 years and then some green terrorist from... Silesia, Warsaw tell that we can wait another 10-20 years, that made me (and not only me) really pissed of!
> And another funny thing is, that there is now a road with end... in middle of nowhere. Because yes it was building already!
> As I see be "green" is even more popular in Poland, than in Western Europe.
> And destroying? It was planned well but hell yeah, you would be never able again to swim canoe in Rospuda, with is more destructive for environment. And you still can use Czarna Hańcza and Augustowski Kanał instead.
> 
> But for people like you it is so simple. Took away money for this region.
> And what's the funniest thing in middle '90, "Warsaw" told "Bypass of Augustow and Suwalki can't be so long! Let's build it through Rospuda Valley!". Because modern plan of bypass through S61 is the oldest one, the first. It could be build a long, long time ago. But it was "too long". Funny huh?
> 
> At present our "green heroes" trying to do something even worse. A18 is strategical road, not just for Poland but for Europe too. But people like you give for them power. Today they stop rebuilding Autostrada, tomorrow...?


I'm far from being "green hero". I also understand what does it mean to have national road going right through the center of hometown. I was living for almost twenty years near that kind of road, my family still lives there. I agree, it is a nightmare sometimes. In a way you are lucky, because in my hometown there will not be any bypass in foreseeable future, you at least can have some hopes... Nevertheless, my opinion is that Rospuda valley either by man doings or by nature itself is great natural phenomena, and I'm in favour to preserve it if THERE IS another option. And as far as I know it is... If because of that opinion you choose to call me "green hero" or any other silly adjective, it is your choice, but first those kind of hiperbolic speaking gets you far away from truth, secondly it don't give more strenght to your own opinions to wich you are entitled to, thirdly any further conversation with you seems futile, which is good because it is indeed probably not a good forum for that. 
EOT


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## Sasza

> But for people like you it is so simple. Took away money for this region.
> And what's the funniest thing in middle '90, "Warsaw" told "Bypass of Augustow and Suwalki can't be so long! Let's build it through Rospuda Valley!". Because modern plan of bypass through S61 is the oldest one, the first. It could be build a long, long time ago. But it was "too long". Funny huh?


That is the point of my speech. Yeah saving places like Rospuda is good but once more someone wanted money. We allowed for green too much and now we're suffering because of this.


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## Jakub Warszauer

Sasza said:


> That is the point of my speech. Yeah saving places like Rospuda is good but once more someone wanted money. We allowed for green too much and now we're suffering because of this.


Saving Rospuda meant also saving money... hno:


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## bebe.2006

Start of building on [A4] Szarów - Tarnów.
Photos by KronosKBC:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=992981&page=27


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## michal_OMB

*[S3] Szczecin - Gorzów WLKP.*



JacYk said:


> Zawsze chodzi o wybór, którą drogę wybrać do remontu w przypadku "mikroskopijnego" budżetu. W przypadku odcinka DW122, mającego służyć "tylko" mieszkańcom Pyrzyc i okolic, mogło to nie wystarczyć jako argument do podjęcia decyzji o remoncie właśnie tego fragmentu? Pewnie "wygrała", inna w dużo gorszym stanie droga. Oczywiście, są to tylko moje dywagacje, bo konkretnej wiedzy na te temat nie posiadam.
> 
> *CD przejażdżki po odc.I.*
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> Widok tuż po minięciu WE-12, dalej w tle WD-11.
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> Zbliżamy się do WD-11.
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> WD-11 z bliska.
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> Widok po minięciu WD-11.
> 
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> 
> Specjalnie nie komentuję tego zdjęcia. Zobaczymy co wam przyjdzie do głowy?
> 
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> *cdn...*





JacYk said:


> *CD.*
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> Kawałek dalej w km 11+785.00 jest PZ-10a, ale trudno się zorientować, że się nad nim przejeżdża (nie ma barier, jedynie zielone „naprowadzacze” zwierzyny u podnóża nasypu, sugerują jego istnienie).
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JacYk said:


> *CD.*
> 
> Mijamy PZ-10a, pod S3. Przed nami WD-10.
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JacYk said:


> ...i wszystko jasne. :applause:
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> *CD.*
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> Widok po minięciu WD-10.
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> Zbliżamy się do WD-9 i *węzła "Gryfino" w Gardnie.*
> Lubię to zestawienie słów.  Tak wiem, że wiele osób na tym forum jest wyznawcą stosowania nazw węzłów np. .najbliższej "większej" miejscowości. Ja jestem w tym konkretnym przypadku za inną koncepcją i w słuszności takiego myślenia, utwierdzili mnie moi znajomi. Prosty przykład, ostatnio zabrałem na przejażdżkę tym odcinkiem S3, dwóch moi kolegów (notabene długoletni kierowcy), którzy na widok tablicy węzeł "Gryfino", krzyknęli jednym chórem - "Ooo, to jesteśmy w Gryfinie", a ja im na to, że owszem tu można zjechać do Gryfina, ale żeby tam dojechać, trzeba jeszcze pokonać ok.9km drogą wojewódzką. Byli mocno zdziwieni, dlaczego w taki razie ten węzeł nie nazywa się "Gardno". Podobne uwagi mieli jak opowiedziałem im o węźle "Pyrzyce" w Parnicy (do Pyrzyc ok.10km) i węźle "Myślibórz" w Renicach (do Myśliborza ok.7km).
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## ABRob

And what is still under construction on S3? Are there pictures of it?


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## ufonut

S69 Bielsko Biala - Zywiec











More here:
http://www.kocjan.pl/thumbnails-68.html


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## ja_kubek2

ABRob said:


> And what is still under construction on S3? Are there pictures of it?


i found just a few photos


JacYk said:


>


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## bebe.2006

ABRob said:


> And what is still under construction on S3? ...


The works on circa 1000 meter long moor section were stopped because of environmental issues. Then a new longer viaduct was designed. So, it will be finished in September.

And then the last section near Gorzow (27 km long) is still unter consruction:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=496160&page=271

Should be done later this year.


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## Czas na Żywiec

A4 is getting closer and closer to completion. 



> Today, in the Rzeszów branch of GDDKiA, a contract for the construction of more than 32-kilometer section of the A4 motorway from W. Dębica Pustynia to W. Rzeszów Zachód was signed. Contractor for this investment will be Budimex SA The contract value is over 1.73 billion PLN. The project is intended to be co-financed from EU funds from the Operational Programme Infrastructure and Environment and from the budget. End of work is planned for June 2012.
> 
> Signing of the contract for the construction of the A4 motorway was accompanied by the signing of an agreement with Poland on the ECM Group project management POIiŚ Tarnow, Rzeszow, and supervise the execution of the works in this section. The contract value is more than 15 million zł.
> 
> 
> Construction on the section of A4 motorway W. Dębica Pustynia to W. Rzeszów Zachód will include:
> -Construction of the motorway A-4 with a length of about 32.75 km,
> -Construction of collision-free motorway junction "Ropczyce" type "trumpet" charging station with SOPs;
> - Construction of access roads and collecting and converting existing cross roads (provincial, district and municipal access), which cross the proposed highway A-4 to adjust the technical parameters of these roads to Class Z, L, D;
> -Engineering-construction of facilities such as a motorway bridge, five highway bridges (with complex passages for animals), 12 highway viaducts, 12 overpasses road, 8 road bridges, crossing three mountain big animal, two to go under the highway for a medium-sized animals
> - Construction of road culverts in the highway and cross over the road rebuilt (59 reinforced concrete framework, 30 arc-circular pipe, 490 pipe ring)
> - Construction of equipment for environmental protection such as noise barriers, green insulation, highway fences, passage for animals, equipment cleaning wastewater runoff from the roads, reservoirs associated with the drainage system;
> - Construction of road safety equipment such as barriers to energy-intensive, horizontal and vertical marking, emergency entrances, emergency travel;
> - Construction of two service areas ILO Bratkowice type I and Dabrye - implementation of the target;
> - Construction of two service areas ILO s North and South Paszczyna type III and II provided for the development of the second stage.
> - Construction site toll PPO;
> - Construction and reconstruction of infrastructure, technical facilities:
> - Highway construction fencing, including gates, security pass over watercourses.


http://gddkia.gov.pl/article/oddzia...e6c67/id_art/f4df92f5dbe73f84ce8994abbbeb5a6b


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## michal_OMB

*[S5] Bypass Poznań*



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## michal_OMB

*[S11] Bypass Poznań*



Carte said:


> Szybko nam poszło Podziękowania dla Wieży EPPO





Carte said:


>





Carte said:


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Carte said:


> Kilka zdjęć więcej w mojej galerii: *http://picasaweb.google.pl/Carte.drogi/ZachodniaObwodnicaPoznania#*


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## ChrisZwolle

Is it true speed limits are increased in Poland?

http://prawo.gazetaprawna.pl/artykuly/261926,na_autostradzie_bedziemy_jezdzic_szybciej.html

supposedly by May 1st, 2010


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## toonczyk

^^ Unfortunately not. Constitutional Tribunal overruled it (details in Polish). Sloppy lawmaking by our dear government.


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## aswnl

ChrisZwolle said:


> http://prawo.gazetaprawna.pl/artykuly/261926,na_autostradzie_bedziemy_jezdzic_szybciej.html


Why in the world that picture of the Dutch A2 near Utrecht in this article... :dunno:


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## TheFlyPL

Ahhh, that's typical for polish press. Not a month ago there was a belgian highway in the article on "Gazeta.pl". :bash:


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ How about that Belgian picture as the background of GDDKiA.gov.pl ?


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## seem

^^ :rofl:


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## Blaskovitz

aswnl said:


> Why in the world that picture of the Dutch A2 near Utrecht in this article... :dunno:


because they use google


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## delfin_pl

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ How about that Belgian picture as the background of GDDKiA.gov.pl ?


Belgium is a Polish colony.


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## LMB

aswnl said:


> Why in the world that picture of the Dutch A2 near Utrecht in this article... :dunno:


Never heard of "stock photos"? They cost very little (ce.g. 20€) in comparison to sending a dude onto the highway (+ticket for him/her for standing in the wrong place


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## LMB

toonczyk said:


> ^^ Unfortunately not. Constitutional Tribunal overruled it (details in Polish). Sloppy lawmaking by our dear government.


But the points to which the Constitutional Court had doubts are about fining people for speeding with limited right to appeal. The speed limit 140 (why not 150 as it was originally?) was not questioned, hence it may still pass another way.


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## aswnl

LMB said:


> Never heard of "stock photos"? They cost very little (ce.g. 20€) in comparison to sending a dude onto the highway (+ticket for him/her for standing in the wrong place


I don't believe there isn't a cheap stockphoto available of a Polish highway, so the question remains...


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## lukaszek89

I don't think they were intersted in where this photo came from. For "normal" people all highways look the same


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## MAG

aswnl said:


> Why in the world that picture of the Dutch A2 near Utrecht in this article... :dunno:


This is definitely a Dutch autosnelweg.
But I want to know how you could tell that it is near Utrecht?

There is no excuse for this since there are plenty of good pictures of our own roads. 





ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ How about that Belgian picture as the background of GDDKiA.gov.pl ?


Yes, it is still there. I complained about this some weeks ago and even sent them a few alternative pictures. But the built-in jobsworth lethargy within GDDKiA is much stronger than common sense and the desire to excel - you know the kind of attitude: 'Dude, whatever you want, the answer is always no'. :wallbash:


.


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## ChrisZwolle

MAG said:


> This is definitely a Dutch autosnelweg.
> But I want to know how you could tell that it is near Utrecht?


This is one future carriageway that will have 5 lanes and 2 shoulders. The other carriageway will be constructed to the left. It's easy to tell, this is the largest road project in the Netherlands. The noise barrier on the left also gives it away, we don't have such noise barriers a lot.


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## aswnl

MAG said:


> But I want to know how you could tell that it is near Utrecht?


I can recognize a NL-motorway-location on a picture quite easily most of the times 

Apart from the fact that I drive this road quite often


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## Nafianna

*toonczyk*

thank you TOONCZYK


great photos of a big rock cut. Who is the contractor on this project. does any body have photos of the jobs being done by the irish SRB CIVIL ENGININEERING. i think its that big contract that the chinese got parts of?


great pics from poznan. very neat with the bridges going in first so as not to slow the earthworks.


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## LMB

aswnl said:


> I can recognize a NL-motorway-location on a picture quite easily most of the times


So can I, but could we please stick to the topic?


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## ufonut

A1 Pyrzowice-Gorzyczki



times said:


> WITAM
> wchodzę (na chwilke) - po dłuższej przerwie......
> i w odpowiedzi na zapotrzebowanie wyrażone w poprzednich postach..................
> wklejam kilka fotek..............
> Z GÓRY
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## ChrisZwolle

> A1 Pyrzowice-Gorzyczki


Besides the fact nobody has ever heard of these villages, they also indicate a fairly long section. Where are these pics exactly, at the Świerklany / Żory exit?


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## timmy2000

^^Bełk - Świerklany


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## ChrisZwolle

Yep. Since the bridge in is northern Warszawa, "Mostu Północnego" probably means "northern bridge". Polish grammar is quite hard for a non-native speaker though.


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## delfin_pl

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yep. Since the bridge in is northern Warszawa, "Mostu Północnego" probably means "northern bridge". Polish grammar is quite hard for a non-native speaker though.


It is said to be hard, but as soon as you know basics its pretty easy, seems you understand Polish quite well.


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## LMB

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yep. Since the bridge in is northern Warszawa, "Mostu Północnego" probably means "northern bridge". Polish grammar is quite hard for a non-native speaker though.


But he is Slovak, and Slavic languages are much closer related thanGermanic, or even Romance (French -Spanish). One can basically understand lots of simple things when in writing. Except that west in Polish means toilet in Slovak


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## Dantiscum

There is a simple way to learn polish names of geographic directions - they say us where the sun is at the current time of the day. 
So we have the polish words:
"południe" (poł-u-dnie) - "half-day" -> for both noon and south,
"północ" (pół-noc) - "half-night" -> for both midnight and north
"wschód" - "upgoing" (?) -> for both sunrise and east
"zachód" - "downgoing" (?) -> for both sunset and west


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## ChrisZwolle

Pronouncing Północnego is also different I guess. It's not "Pol-nok-nego" but something like "Puvnotsnego".


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## delfin_pl

Dantiscum said:


> There is a simple way to learn polish names of geographic directions - they say us where the sun is at the current time of the day.
> So we have the polish words:
> "południe" (poł-u-dnie) - "half-day" -> for both noon and south,
> "północ" (pół-noc) - "half-night" -> for both midnight and north
> "wschód" - "upgoing" (?) -> for both sunrise and east
> "zachód" - "downgoing" (?) -> for both sunset and west


wschód - sunrise, east
zachód - sunset, west
północ -midnight, north
południe - noon, south


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## Dantiscum

ChrisZwolle said:


> Pronouncing Północnego is also different I guess. It's not "Pol-nok-nego" but something like "Puvnotsnego".


północ (_poow-nots_) - north (noun)
północny (_poow-notsny_) - northern (adjective)
północnego (_poow-notsnego_) - genetive case of the adjective "northern" 





delfin_pl said:


> wschód - sunrise, east
> zachód - sunset, west
> północ -midnight, north
> południe - noon, south


Did I write something else?


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## seem

LMB said:


> But he is Slovak, and Slavic languages are much closer related thanGermanic, or even Romance (French -Spanish). One can basically understand lots of simple things when in writing. Except that west in Polish means toilet in Slovak


Yes, I mean it is too hard for German and Roman speaking people understand how similar are our languages. 

anyway, we are now off topic but check this



Dantiscum said:


> There is a simple way to learn polish names of geographic directions - they say us where the sun is at the current time of the day.
> So we have the polish words:
> "południe" (poł-u-dnie) - "half-day" -> for both noon and south,
> "północ" (pół-noc) - "half-night" -> for both midnight and north
> "wschód" - "upgoing" (?) -> for both sunrise and east
> "zachód" - "downgoing" (?) -> for both sunset and west


logical and simple to understand


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## aswnl

delfin_pl said:


> It is said to be hard, but as soon as you know basics its pretty easy, seems you understand Polish quite well.


Well, if Google translate wouldn't have existed yet, it would be a big problem for me to read some Polish newspaper articles about your nice new roads...

Something else offtopic: why do you have those completely different names of the months ? And do these names have a certain meaning just like the north/south/east/west example shown in this thread ? Just curious


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## timmy2000

aswnl said:


> Something else offtopic: why do you have those completely different names of the months ?


not all! we have maj (May)


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## AlexisMD

seem said:


> Yes, I mean it is too hard for German and Roman speaking people understand how similar are our languages.
> 
> anyway, we are now off topic but check this
> 
> 
> 
> logical and simple to understand


for Moldavians it's not hard. Because we speak Russian and Romanian


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## Czas na Żywiec

aswnl said:


> Well, if Google translate wouldn't have existed yet, it would be a big problem for me to read some Polish newspaper articles about your nice new roads...
> 
> Something else offtopic: why do you have those completely different names of the months ? And do these names have a certain meaning just like the north/south/east/west example shown in this thread ? Just curious


As timmy2000 said, for May we use a Latin derivative (maj). We also do so for March (marzec). The other ten are traiditional Slavic names that relate to nature. Polish, Czech, Ukrainian, Belarusian, Slovenien and Croatian use nature themed names for the months. AFAIK, Russian, Slovak, Serbian, Macedonian and Bulgarian use Latin derived names.

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=114558

^^ Post #2 does a good job explaining the names in Polish, Czech and Ukrainian. 

[Sorry for continuing the offtopic]


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## ufonut

DK8 Kudowa-Warszawa-Budzisko

Bypass of Kepno


lulek89 said:


> A propos dwujezdniowej drogi , chciałbym właśnie pokazać obwodnice Kępna.
> Mimo iż do domu mam bliżej z pierwszego zjadu, nadrobiłem trochę żeby obfotografować genialny wynalazek.
> A mianowicie drogę 1x3.
> Przed przebudową obwodnica byłą normalną drogą, ale w zeszłym roku doczekała się gruntownej modernizacji i teraz tak oto wygląda:
> 
> Wjazd na obwodnicę:
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> Bez nerwów możemy zabrać się za wyprzedzanie ciężarówek.
> Proste i skuteczne. Można? Można!
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lulek89 said:


> Wjeżdżamy na wiadukt. Prowadzi on nad linia kolejową i dwoma ulicami, w tym nad DK11. Łącznie ma ok. 500-600m.
> 
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## seem

Czas na Żywiec;57258431 said:


> Polish, Czech, Ukrainian, Belarusian, Slovenien and Croatian use nature themed names for the months. AFAIK, Russian, Slovak, Serbian, Macedonian and Bulgarian *use Latin derived names.*


Yes, like in English or Spanish. I have to learn your names for months. 

ok, let`s talk about motorways :cheers:


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## mappero

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yep. Since the bridge in is northern Warszawa, "Mostu Północnego" probably means "northern bridge". Polish grammar is quite hard for a non-native speaker though.


It's no so difficult with Polish  but a lot of people cannot pronounced Dutch words at all. Famous huur and so on though


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## lulek89

ufonut said:


> DK8 Kudowa-Warszawa-Budzisko
> 
> Bypass of Kepno


Thanks for posting my photos 

More from this route:
*S8 Bypass of Olesnica*

Near the start of bypass:









Start of bypass:































































End of bypass:


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## ChrisZwolle

Uh-oh @ Sandomierz.

more pics here


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## Czas na Żywiec

^^ Unbelievable! hno:


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## michal_OMB

*[S3] Szczecin - Gorzów Wlkp.*



SOSENKA said:


> *Kilka dzisiejszych zdjęć z pierwszego odcinka S3. Tak dla uprzyjemnienia oczekiwania na oficjalne otwarcie *


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Nice. 

When will construction of S17 on the east side of Warszawa begin? I see the DŚU has already been taken.


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ Nice.
> 
> When will construction of S17 on the east side of Warszawa begin? I see the DŚU has already been taken.


Consider this DŚU as nonexistent. Local NIMBY group + self-acclaimed-greenies won in upper administration court (Naczelny Sąd Administracyjny). The sentence is quite unambiguous.

Regards,


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## michal_OMB

*continued S3*



SOSENKA said:


> *W okolicy Sobieradza.*





SOSENKA said:


> *^^ Pewnie, że można tylko rozdzielczość za mała . Kolejne miejsce rozpoznacie prawdopodobnie bez problemu.*





SOSENKA said:


> *Okolica Wysokiej Gryfińskiej.*





SOSENKA said:


> *Kawałek dalej na północ.*


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## Chris80678

Jakub Warszauer said:


> Consider this DŚU as nonexistent. Local NIMBY group + self-acclaimed-greenies won in upper administration court (Naczelny Sąd Administracyjny). The sentence is quite unambiguous.
> 
> Regards,


Look on the plus side at least Warsaw will have a western ring road when the
S8 expressway between central Warsaw and Konotopa opens at the end of this year :banana:. 
In my opinion it is more important for the S8 expressway western ring road to be up and running as more traffic passes to the western side of Warsaw rather to than its eastern side, more traffic will pass on the city's western side as it heads for places like Łódż, Poznań, Wrocław, Germany or the Czech Republic than on the eastern side of the city. The S17 will only make for quicker access to Białystok, Lublin and Rzeszów. 
Once the S8 does open in December attention can turn to getting the Warsaw southern bypass (S2) completely built to remove more traffic away from Warsaw city centre. At least the S8 expressway is progress in the right direction for Warsaw.
One thing is for sure Poland doesn't need any more floods as they are holding up vital motorway and expressway construction projects hno:.


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## I-275westcoastfl

Holy shit the flooding in Poland is crazy!


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## ufonut

S3 by *Carte*



Carte said:


> No to muszę brać się za przygotowanie pełnej fotorelacji, a póki co kilka zdjęć na szybko:





Carte said:


>


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## aswnl

Czas na Żywiec;57258431 said:


> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=114558
> ^^ Post #2 does a good job explaining the names in Polish, Czech and Ukrainian.
> 
> [Sorry for continuing the offtopic]


Thank you for the link.


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## ufonut

S3 by *Carte*



Carte said:


>





Carte said:


>





Carte said:


>





Carte said:


>





Carte said:


>





Carte said:


> Pełna galeria: *KLIK*


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## ChrisZwolle

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/3307/img2767a.jpg

Is this why the S3 cannot be opened yet? I've read something about a section through a bog that was planned as an embankment, but later required a viaduct, delaying the opening for 3 or 4 months...


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## ufonut

ChrisZwolle said:


> http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/3307/img2767a.jpg
> 
> Is this why the S3 cannot be opened yet? I've read something about a section through a bog that was planned as an embankment, but later required a viaduct, delaying the opening for 3 or 4 months...


Yes indeed. A famous "wiszar" courtesy of ever-present environmentalists. "Wiszar" can be loosely translated as an "over hanger".


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## Jakub Warszauer

ufonut said:


> Yes indeed. A famous "wiszar" courtesy of ever-present environmentalists. "Wiszar" can be loosely translated as an "over hanger".


Actually, in this case, it isn't that obvious. But I won't write anything more untill they open S3.


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## msz2

This viaduct within Olesnica bypass was designed be me:

Start of bypass:


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## ChrisZwolle

The northern 28 km of S3 opened today! :cheers:

map (until Pyrzyce)


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## Chris80678

ChrisZwolle said:


> The northern 28 km of S3 opened today! :cheers:
> 
> map (until Pyrzyce)


About time :banana:. Is the opening of the remaining part of S3 from Pyrzyce to Gorzów Wlkp still on schedule for September? hno:


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ I think so. I'm surprised to see that the remaining 54 kilometers to Gorzów have only one exit. Do you guys think they will make S3 a toll road in the future? I believe such long intervals between exits are quite rare for S-roads.


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ I think so. I'm surprised to see that the remaining 54 kilometers to Gorzów have only one exit. Do you guys think they will make S3 a toll road in the future? I believe such long intervals between exits are quite rare for S-roads.


Sooner or later all A- and S-class roads will be tolled. Next year we are introducing electronic system for trucs and busses. And not only on A-,S- but some GP-class national roads as well.

After that - there is just one step to introduce it to all users: a simple amendment to one article of law.

Regards,


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## Czas na Żywiec

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ I think so. I'm surprised to see that the remaining 54 kilometers to Gorzów have only one exit. Do you guys think they will make S3 a toll road in the future? I believe such long intervals between exits are quite rare for S-roads.


I think the reason for that is because the S3 was originally planned as the A3. But when they decided to change the route into an S road, they probably didn't change much in the design and just kept the original number of exits. That and there aren't really many large towns in the region so another exit probably wasn't necessary.


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## Blaskovitz

Jakub Warszauer said:


> Sooner or later all A- and S-class roads will be tolled.


Like in Spain.


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## Barciur

Can somebody summarize the status of Lublin Bypass and S17 at Lublin-Warsaw section? When can we expect it, what's going on now etc? THank you


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## DSzumaher

ChrisZwolle unwelcome in this post :lol:

S3 Pyrzyce - Szczecin (yesterday)










Szczecin - Pyrzyce


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## bleetz

S-roads in Poland will be tolled for cars too? That's some terrible news to me!


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## Blaskovitz

mr.cool said:


> Is there still a flood risk under alert in Poland? Have they managed to start cleaning up the operation?



Yes, in central and nothern Poland. Second Wave.


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## Sasza

There is a SECOND wave at now. And the meteorologist predicts, that there will be a third one. hno:


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## mr.cool

Ahh  hope Poland recovers quickly and the weather doesn't do more damage being Polish myself  
I'm going to Polska next month is there any major damage near lublin, chelm and zamosc?


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## ufonut

AOW (Wroclaw Bypass) by *Carte* - I think he has his own plane or something  





































Stadium in the background


















Concrete sound barriers !


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## Mateusz

Nice noise screens ! I like them much more than them plastic ones


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## ufonut

Bypass of Bydgoszcz (S5) - start in Biale Blota ("White Muds")



Michał Ch.;58505191 said:


> No to jedziemy. Zdjęcia z wczoraj, zaczynamy od Białych Błót:
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## jacekfreeman

mr.cool said:


> Ahh  hope Poland recovers quickly and the weather doesn't do more damage being Polish myself
> I'm going to Polska next month is there any major damage near lublin, chelm and zamosc?


Fortunately Lublin is perfectly fine, I think Zamość and Chełm too.


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## ChrisZwolle

S25?!
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/3739/img2686.jpg


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## PLH

When an A or S road has two numbers only one of them is titled so. Here it must have been a mistake, not a serious one.


----------



## treichard

How are concurrent designations applied on the Polish A, S, DK, and DW routes when you have different classes of route sharing the same roadway?

Does the promotion of a concurrent DK route to S status depend on whether there's a separate single-number part of the DK route that exists or will exit as an adjacent S expressway?

In other words, is S5/S25 incorrect, and S5/DK25 would be correct, because there's no existing or planned S25-only expressway nearby? 

Hypothetically, if S5 were rerouted some other way around Bydgoszcz, would this piece of S5/DK25 expressway just north of S10 be S25 or DK25?

But S5/S10 is correct as-is because there are existing or planned S5-only and S10-only expressways adjacent to the S5/S10 concurrency?

And in the case of A6/S3, the concurrent S route is not promoted to an A route, particularly since S3 re-emerges alone on the other side of the concurrency?

Could the A6 designation be dropped from the new concurrent S3 section since A6 doesn't re-emerge to the east separate from S3?


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## ChrisZwolle

treichard said:


> Could the A6 designation be dropped from the new concurrent S3 section since A6 doesn't re-emerge to the east separate from S3?


I doubt it, since S6 is planned eastwards to Gdansk. A6, S6 and DK6 are all part of Droga Krajowa 6, so "DK6" does have a continuous route, just not classified as Autostrada A6, but as Droga ekspresowa S6.


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## PLH

The situation looks as follows:

In Poland road classes strictly follow their numbers, which is tremendously ridiculous. This means that a given road cannot be A or S, even when all requirements are met, when its number is not on the A/S roads list.

In this way we have roads build as A but marked S (S7 in Kraków), S or even GP roads marked as A (several sections of A4) as well as S roads marked just like regular roads(some street in Poznań).

And don't ask me why.


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## Blaskovitz

"Fotki" by Rusonaldo.

A2 Świecko (DE) - Nowy Tomyśl



Rusonaldo said:


> 4 – Mosty autostradowe i przepusty autostradowe – (MA & PA)
> 
> a)





Rusonaldo said:


> 4 – Mosty autostradowe i przepusty autostradowe – (MA & PA)
> 
> b)





Rusonaldo said:


> 5 – Wiadukty drogowe (WD) nad autostradą
> 
> a)





Rusonaldo said:


> b)





Rusonaldo said:


> 6 – Autostrada
> 
> a)





Rusonaldo said:


> b)
> 
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> Dziękuję za uwagę i do następnego razu.
> 
> Teraz będzie ciężko z fotami bo Mundial się zaczął. A że jestem wielkim fanem piłki to inne rzeczy idą na 2 plan


----------



## Mateusz

*The first Polish Motorway*

Well thought that we know everything about Polish motorways and their history. As it was said before some plans were drawn up before WWII and apparently some construction was done too. It was a part of planned motorway between Gdynia and Katowice. About 20 kilometres was constructed in northern Poland. Currently it's regional road DW214 connecting Warlubie and Karszanek, however one can clearly see on sattelite pictures that some work was done between Karszanek and Lubichowo (direction North) and it can be clearly seen that it would have overpasses and so on. Now the existing part is covered in asphalt but originally it was concrete and single carriageway but could be doubled in the future. Obviously war stopped further works.


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## ufonut

A4+some DK roads. Photos by kilimand123


----------



## -Spitzkopf Larry-

Wow I really love the new highways in Poland.
And this traffic junction looks fantastic.
Could someone please say me, where this junction is?

Greetings.


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## PLH

^^ Sure, here:
http://maps.google.pl/maps?f=q&sour...0.242869,19.054778&spn=0.010361,0.032938&z=16

Plus:

Tenders for a total of 100 km of A1 were signed today or will be tomorrow, construction starts within a month


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Also 180 km of S6, 15 km of S14 and 110 km of S19 :cheers:


----------



## PLH

> 180 km of S6


:sly:

edit: Now I see, but it's "just" that now location of this road is officially confirmed. But still a record, these 180 km. Now ca. a year for a tender to be announced and another one to start construction.


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## aswnl

Mateusz said:


> Well thought that we know everything about Polish motorways and their history. As it was said before some plans were drawn up before WWII and apparently some construction was done too. It was a part of planned motorway between Gdynia and Katowice. About 20 kilometres was constructed in northern Poland. Currently it's regional road DW214 connecting Warlubie and Karszanek, however one can clearly see on sattelite pictures that some work was done between Karszanek and Lubichowo (direction North) and it can be clearly seen that it would have overpasses and so on. Now the existing part is covered in asphalt but originally it was concrete and single carriageway but could be doubled in the future. Obviously war stopped further works.


Nice to know. The not-build part of the trace to Lubichowo is also still visible in the landscape today.


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## mappero

^^
Like on this picture below: 
not finished road


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## Rusonaldo

A2


----------



## fetg_

Is there any plans for extending S19 through Hrodna and up to Vilnius?
Also, any plans for S6 from Gdansk to Vilnius?


----------



## delfin_pl

not in near future, maybe after 2015


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nobody would want to pass those intensive border controls with Belarus while there is an all-Schengen alternate route nearby. I don't see Belarus joining Schengen anytime soon, so I think it would be best to focus on PL - LT routes rather than via BY.


----------



## lukaszek89

fetg_ said:


> Is there any plans for extending S19 through Hrodna and up to Vilnius?
> Also, any plans for S6 from Gdansk to Vilnius?


Grodno is not anymore in Poland


----------



## fetg_

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nobody would want to pass those intensive border controls with Belarus while there is an all-Schengen alternate route nearby. I don't see Belarus joining Schengen anytime soon, so I think it would be best to focus on PL - LT routes rather than via BY.


S19 goes to the Belarussian border and stops there. There is about 350.000 people living in Hrodna. Even if it wouldn't be an effective route for traffic between PL and LT it would still carry some traffic from Hrodna to either PL or LT.


----------



## Sylver

Will Via Baltica be built? Any news about it?


----------



## Sasza

^^
Yeah it will be. But when? It's at now called S61. It's got few DŚU for few bypasses and there is one tender for part of Augustow's bypass but it's all at now. When it will be build? "After 2012". So... we'll wait for Via Baltica a long, long time.


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## czerwony_bo_szybszy

DŚU is "decision about the influence on natural environement", it means we know where the route will pass and that Ministry of Environement said it`s ok


----------



## Nafianna

ufonut said:


> A4+some DK roads. Photos by kilimand123
> 
> -PICS-


Great section of road. great work being done in Poland. This is a very complex junction to build. looks like most of polands forests are being knocked to make for these motorway's.

keep up the photo's



michal_OMB said:


> *S69 - Bielsko-Biała - U/C*
> 
> -PICS-


Another great project by hermann kirchner.
this is in such a confined space and so many piers and abutments in close succession. a few push launch bridges aswell, amazing!

progress looks slow but you can see its taking shape



michal_OMB said:


> *North Bridge in Warsaw - U/C*
> 
> http://mostpolnocny.warszawa.pl/a-wiadukty-rosna/
> 
> -PICS-


What a great job. excellent bridges and concrete works. that push lauch bridge over the river ! beautifuul splayed piers.

WAS THERE A BIG FLOOD IN POLAND AS IT LOOKS LIKE ONE OF THE BOX GIRDERS WAS IN THE WATER ON THE RIVER BANK?



michael_siberia said:


> A1 in Gliwice, U/C:


WOW, amazing pictures. Alot of damage and cranes submerged. You must have got very bad rains over there.


i see also the south of france got flooded too near nice.

Alot of poland is so low lying, this problem will allways come. lets hope all the new motorways are designed to allow for these flood events or you guys are in for some trouble down the line.

Hopefully these jobs wont be held up too much



ufonut said:


> A1 Pyrzowice-Gorzyczki


I see they are installing water catchment tanks aswell on that interchange. another amazing motorway job in poland. plenty of bridges being built and also 
alot of earthworks needed



jwojcie said:


> I'm far from being "green hero". I also understand what does it mean to have national road going right through the center of hometown. I was living for almost twenty years near that kind of road, my family still lives there. I agree, it is a nightmare sometimes. In a way you are lucky, because in my hometown there will not be any bypass in foreseeable future, you at least can have some hopes... Nevertheless, my opinion is that Rospuda valley either by man doings or by nature itself is great natural phenomena, and I'm in favour to preserve it if THERE IS another option. And as far as I know it is... If because of that opinion you choose to call me "green hero" or any other silly adjective, it is your choice, but first those kind of hiperbolic speaking gets you far away from truth, secondly it don't give more strenght to your own opinions to wich you are entitled to, thirdly any further conversation with you seems futile, which is good because it is indeed probably not a good forum for that.
> EOT



i kind of agree where you are coming from. Just look at the hidtory of motorway construction, there is allways controversy.

In Ireland we ruined alot of areas because of short sightedness and not listening to public. 

1. carrickmines castle on m50 motorway around Dublin. They knew there was something there as regards Castle ruins but went ahead and had massive hold ups while construction was being carried out.

2. Tara skryne vally on m3 motorway ( Clonee to Kells ) consultants said move motorway from this area, Authority went there own way.

3. Kildare bypass was built through a "Fenn" recognised by EU as aregistered habitat and the whole waterway was drained and the road runs through that area in a "waterproofed" cut to avoid it flooding.

In Polands quest for progress, Just remember you can wipe out alot of beautiful areas too, when moving a motorway design away can save alot of hassle and delays at construction stage.

Your motorways are great though. some great expertise being used.



asahi said:


> ^^ Dunno why, but I can't see the photos... Is it just me?



what a bridge in wroclaw. those temorary piers in the river are just as difficult to construct as the bridge itself.

the finished segmentally balanced cantilever bridge is amazing



Jakub Warszauer said:


> Construction of S7 section Występa - Skarżysko Kamienna (between Kielce and Skarżysko Kamienna)



great photo's. I see there is alot of earthmoving. have you any photos of the 
machinery.


I have noticed its quite unusual to have big earthworks in Poland due to flat nature of the land.

who is the main contractor on the project?


Keep up the photos:banana:


----------



## mdhookey

Here's an interesting report courtesy of TVN Warsaw regarding the construction of A2: 
http://www.tvnwarszawa.pl/-1,1661518,0,,saperzy_i_archeolodzy_na_budowie_a2,wiadomosc.html

My Polish is extremely elementary, so Google Translate is always helpful to have. There's an interesting video included too showing some of the efforts, all of it in Polish, but you can guess the jist of it from the visuals. 

I've never really considered it before, but in making many of these new roads, you have to take into consideration a lot of unexploded ordinance from the Second World War. These would naturally have to be cleared out of the way before laying down new routes. In making Poland's future, one can't ignore the debris of the past.


----------



## toonczyk

mdhookey said:


> There's an interesting video included too showing some of the efforts, all of it in Polish, but you can guess the jist of it from the visuals.


There is a rather sad story about those pylons you can see at the end of the video. Those were built in the seventies, they were supposed to be a part of a highway that has never been built, over a high-speed railway that has never been built either. Thirty years later we are finally going to get the highway, but a fast railway connecting north with south is not even planned as of today...


----------



## mdhookey

From *Gazeta.pl Łódź*:

Construction has officially started on the "Węzeł Stryków." This will be the main intersection between A1 and A2 outside of Stryków. :cheers:

Here's the scene:


















As mentioned by *Blaskovitz* last month, it should be ready by 2012, if all goes to plan. :bowtie:

Source: http://lodz.gazeta.pl/lodz/51,35136,8039496.html?i=0


----------



## Des

Like last year I will be driving from Berlin to Poznan next month. Is the A2 motorway finished a bit more than last year or is it still under construction from the German border until Bolewicko?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's still the same. I don't think we'll see a completion of A2 in western Poland earlier than late 2011.


----------



## toonczyk

The whole stretch of A2 between border and Nowy Tomyśl (where the existing part of A2 ends) will be opened for traffic in December 2011.


----------



## MAG

Des said:


> Like last year I will be driving from Berlin to Poznan next month. Is the A2 motorway finished a bit more than last year or is it still under construction from the German border until Bolewicko?


Unfortunately, the said part of the A2 will not be ready by next month .

Also, because of the construction work, you can expect severe disruption to your journey in several places where the A2 and DK2 cut through or run alongside each other. If you intend to go to Poznań, I would allow up to 2 hours lost in frustrating queues, bypasses and single-file traffic.

This year it is best to avoid DK2 at least as far as Trzciel.
A very smart move would be to fly.



.


----------



## Uppsala

How long time is it takes before the A4 are going to the border to Ukraine?


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

Uppsala said:


> How long time is it takes before the A4 are going to the border to Ukraine?


If everything works fine, May/June 2012 - just before football games.


----------



## Uppsala

Jakub Warszauer said:


> If everything works fine, May/June 2012 - just before football games.


And that's means its going to be a motorway at the Ukraine side of the border too?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think Ukraine would be a big disappointment, infrastructure-wise. Some major roads are still in ruins, not to mention that ambitious east-west motorway plan of 1.400 kilometers never took off.


----------



## Maks33

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think Ukraine would be a big disappointment, infrastructure-wise. Some major roads are still in ruins, not to mention that ambitious east-west motorway plan of 1.400 kilometers never took off.


Ukraine has a heavy economic statement after ˝orange˝ administration. Construction of stadium in Lvov (Lviv) for Euro-2012 may be not finished in time. State treasury is robbed.


----------



## Sasza

^^ Get away from here with you political speech


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## Warsawbynight

Exactly, go away with this politics, Maks33. Especially cause "blue" administration has made these roads looking like that in 1991-2004


----------



## Maks33

Sasza said:


> ^^ Get away from here with you political speech


Sorry, I don´t want to impose my politic wiews to anyone. I hate this. It´s a dirty thing. May be I´m wrong in something.

By topic.
I believe that minimal planes for motorways in Poland before Euro-2012 will be completed, because I see progress in construction on photos.


----------



## fetg_

Chris posted a reply about the 59 most congested cities(in EU) in the belgian thread. Here is a link.

http://euobserver.com/882/29927

The score for the polish cities:
2.Warszawa
3.Wroclaw
20.Poznan
21.Lodz
30.Krakow

Building ringroads/bypasses for the cities is relatively easy. No mountains and expensive tunnels, just cheap labour, EU funds and a fast planning process.

I saw that Stockholm was in the bottom in the list. Congestion is however a big issue there and is frequently discussed in the local press. Another bypass is planned for 3 billion euro to ease the congestion.


----------



## LMB

MAG said:


> This year it is best to avoid DK2 at least as far as Trzciel.
> 
> .


Border-Trzciel or PNT-Trzciel?


----------



## Chris80678

At least Poland is trying hard to ease congestion in most of the cities named in the list of Europe's most congested cities :banana:. Many projects to help ease congestion are currently under construction or will be starting soon. For example we have:

Warszawa - north bridge (U/C), S79 (U/C), S2 (partly U/C), 
S8 (western bypass) (U/C)
Łódż - *A2 (northern bypass) (in operation)*, A1 (eastern bypass) 
(soon to be U/C), S14 (western bypass),
S8 (southern bypass)
Poznań - *A2 southern bypass (in operation)*, S11 (western bypass) 
(U/C), S5 (eastern bypass) (U/C)
Kraków - *A4 (western & southern bypass) (in operation)*, S7 
(eastern bypass) (partly U/C), S7 (northern bypass) (U/C)
Wrocław - A8 (outer ring road) (U/C)


----------



## don.lpz

Chris80678 said:


> Wrocław - A8 (outer ring road) (U/C)


+ east bypass is under construction too


----------



## MAG

LMB said:


> Border-Trzciel or PNT-Trzciel?


In the context of Des' question, I meant the stretch of DK2 between PL/D border and Trzciel. 
Look for example here to get some idea of the kind of traffic and disruption that you will have to contend with. My personal first-hand experience also confirms this.

Of course, if you value your time and health you will want to avoid DK2 between Nowy Tomyśl and Poznań as well and use the super smooth A2 motorway that will take you to southern suburbs of Poznań in half the time with next to no stress.


.


----------



## Chris80678

Does anyone know the opening date for the S7 from Bieżanów interchange
(with the A4) to Kraków-Christo Botewa? It is supposed to be ready by next month. It is only a tiny part of Kraków's future eastern ring road but still an important link to improve access to the A4 for the citizens of Nowa Huta and the suburbs of east Kraków.


----------



## Andrzej_3598

*S7*



Chris80678 said:


> Does anyone know the opening date for the S7 from Bieżanów interchange
> (with the A4) to Kraków-Christo Botewa? It is supposed to be ready by next month. It is only a tiny part of Kraków's future eastern ring road but still an important link to improve access to the A4 for the citizens of Nowa Huta and the suburbs of east Kraków.


^^ I've checked in Polish thread about this section. Colleagues from Kraków believe that it could be September. Still there is work to be done and July seems to be unrealistic.


----------



## CNGL

Polish people are everywhere in Internet. Or at least I believe... (And also I believe that Polish=Catalan :lol
But they are lucky, they have flat terrain so cost of building of autostrady and drogi ekspresowe is not very expensive



lulek89 said:


>


Budzisko signed 647 kilometers away??? Budzisko is a tiny town in the LT border! And besides that, S8 will end at Białystok, not Budzisko.


----------



## toonczyk

CNGL said:


> But they are lucky, they have flat terrain so cost of building of autostrady and drogi ekspresowe is not very expensive


Unfortunately flat doesn't always mean cheap and easy. Construction prices of highways and expressways in Poland range from as low as 4mln euro/km to nearly 50 mln euro/km in case of Warsaw's western bypass...


----------



## Iluminat

^^you don't have to pay compensations to hills and rocks


----------



## don.lpz

CNGL said:


> Budzisko signed 647 kilometers away??? Budzisko is a tiny town in the LT border! And besides that, S8 will end at Białystok, not Budzisko.


You've already answered for your question
Usually on polish signs with km range od DK, the last city is border one.


----------



## Miguel_PL

don.lpz said:


> You've already answered for your question
> Usually on polish signs with km range od DK, the last city is border one.


It's a kind of Polish tradition. I'm used to it since I was born. I live 40 km from the border with Slovakia and when in the past there was a 'custom' of going shopping for cheap high class alcohol and sweets to our Slovak neighbours, all the members of my family used to say that we're going to Barwinek (tiny village with the border crossing), NOT to Slovakia. What's more, a few years ago it was clear for me, that Germany begins on Świecko crossing. On the other side of Poland, everyone knows that Belarus begins in Terespol (also at border crossing). I think that every Pole knows the names of these border villages. I do remember as well that these names are signed in our school's geography textbooks. It's normal. Not for many Europeans from the West, but at least for us...


----------



## Blaskovitz

IMO one of the coolest bypass on DK roads in Poland. 


Krośniewice bypass (DK1 and DK92), GP class.



















*March 2009*



RaV... said:


> w wątku cisza a na budowie praca wre.
> opisy według mapki z pierwszej strony
> jade starą 2 od wawy widok w prawo Węzeł "Pomarzany"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> za górką piachu WO8
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> za Krośniewicami widok w lewo. WD3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Węzeł "Bardzinek" widok na Gdańsk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> j.w.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> j.w.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> obwodnica troche spóźniona, ale lepiej późno niż wcale.


*June 2009*



xlukmanx said:


>


*
August 2009*

Photos by cmaj1977 drom : http://korespondentdrogowy.pl/Obwod...ych_nr_1_i_nr_2_galeria_index_3468_90816.html


















































































*
December 2009*

From south to north; 0:43 Temporary zebra crossing. 



theneo24 said:


> Obwodnica w dzień w ciągu DK 1/92 jadąc z Łodzi w kierunku Gdańska.


1:14-1:22 Temporary signs... FAIL!!



Patryjota said:


>


Unfortunately old photo:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What's the latest on A2 Stryków - Konotopa? Is it already under construction at the full length? I saw some pics of a viaduct U/C on the Polish sub forum, but I don't know if that means A2 is entirely under construction now. 

If they haven't started construction yet, I don't see how they can open this one before Euro 2012. There is less than 2 years remaining. Even half-profile seems tough.


----------



## Sasza

GDDiK'a tells that it will be "drivable" whatever it means  So it is still possible to be "drivable".


----------



## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> What's the latest on A2 Stryków - Konotopa? Is it already under construction at the full length? I saw some pics of a viaduct U/C on the Polish sub forum, but I don't know if that means A2 is entirely under construction now.
> 
> If they haven't started construction yet, I don't see how they can open this one before Euro 2012. There is less than 2 years remaining. Even half-profile seems tough.


They are due to start fall summer. The viaduct you saw is part of some bypass intersecting with A2, no other construction has started.


----------



## ufonut

Photo by Jacyk - wrong voivodeship sign on S3. Instead of "Lubuskie" they put "Lubelskie". Lubelskie is in the east of Poland while Lubuskie in the west


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> What's the latest on A2 Stryków - Konotopa? Is it already under construction at the full length? I saw some pics of a viaduct U/C on the Polish sub forum, but I don't know if that means A2 is entirely under construction now.
> 
> If they haven't started construction yet, I don't see how they can open this one before Euro 2012. There is less than 2 years remaining. Even half-profile seems tough.


No. There are no construction permissions yet.

Pictures you've seen are from construction site of Żyrardów bypass (DK50), which runs through A2 corridor.


----------



## mr.cool

Hi guys, next month i'll be travelling through Poland by car from west (Germany) to the eastern side of Poland in Chelm, near Lublin. Could you please advise me which is the best route to take considering all these construction roads being built and whether or not i can take advantage of any newer faster roads that have just opened, preferably the quickest and smoothest route would be the best. You can write the directions on here  Thanks!


----------



## LMB

mr.cool said:


> Hi guys, next month i'll be travelling through Poland by car from west (Germany) to the eastern side of Poland in Chelm, near Lublin. Could you please advise me which is the best route to take considering all these construction roads being built and whether or not i can take advantage of any newer faster roads that have just opened, preferably the quickest and smoothest route would be the best. You can write the directions on here  Thanks!


Where in Germany?


----------



## CNGL

ufonut said:


> Photo by Jacyk - wrong voivodeship sign on S3. Instead of "Lubuskie" they put "Lubelskie". Lubelskie is in the east of Poland while Lubuskie in the west


We can't see the pic because is also wrong?

They could sign (When finished) the Warsaw midday southern bypass as A2 instead of S2. I wouldn't see an A2 splitted in two by an S2...


----------



## Chris80678

So when will the Zyrardów (DK50) and Ostrów Wlkp (S11) bypasses be fully completed?


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

Chris80678 said:


> So when will the Zyrardów (DK50) and Ostrów Wlkp (S11) bypasses be fully completed?


For Żyrardów - September '11.


----------



## mr.cool

Probably from Berlin.


----------



## SIMSI

mr.cool said:


> Probably from Berlin.


My suggestion: first by (DK2) to Poznań (A2) to Stryków, then by Tomaszów Mazowiecki and Radom (DK 12) to Lublin. In my opinion the fastest way. I did it by myself 2 years ago.


----------



## mr.cool

Hmmm ok thanks  
cos we used to go that way up to Strykow, then straight to warsaw through the s17 to lublin but it always took 1-2 hours through Warsaw. Any major new roads are opened towards warsaw from the east? And is the s17 from warsaw to lublin being re-built?


----------



## wojtop

SIMSI's suggestion is the best possible. 

Do not get near Warsaw for next two years if you can. There's a lot of road works under way near/in the city at the moment so traffic jams are mind boggling. A P&R is u/c near one of the entry roads from the west and the main crossroad is being rebuild/improved on the other one so both have reduced capacity. Everything should be fixed by 2012 and a third entrance is u/c but now it's better to find some other way - DK 12 in your case.


----------



## E2rdEm

^^ Entering Warsaw will not be wise even after 2012. Or even after they finish S2 - I think it will be jammed sometimes too.

There is a road for bypassing Warsaw - DK50. It's being rebuilt do 1x2 GP standard - with quite some interchanges, although some intersections are left as roundabouts. It's packed with trucks, but I still think it's better to go steady 80 km/h on some truck's tail, than to be stopped with Warsaw's jams...

Latest photos from the Mszczonów bypass on DK50:

Example of short 2x1 stretch at the interchange:


mareqm said:


> Widok z węzła Tarczyńska.
> W kierunku Grójca


Regular 1x2:


mareqm said:


> Widok z wiaduktu w kierunku DK 8
> 
> 
> 
> Widok na wiadukt
> 
> 
> 
> Są już nawet znaki poziome


Approaching roundabout:


mareqm said:


> I kończymy relację jak zwykle przy rondzie


But to go to Lublin - DK12 is the best anyway.


----------



## mdhookey

^^^^
Hey *E2rdEm*

Those pictures you posted from mareqm got me thinking. There's quite a few maps here on these Polish forum sections regarding construction, environmental reviews, tender agreements and completion for *A and S* routes....but is there a map showing non-motorway/expressway *DK* national road construction or reconstructions out there? Although they're not motorways or expressways per say, they're still pretty vital to Poland's infrastructure.

Just wondering if something is out there...


----------



## LMB

mr.cool said:


> Probably from Berlin.


The I would suggest Cottbus, Wrocław, then DK8+DK12 straight eastwards. 
Google maps: 
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...8615,18.303223&spn=9.244219,19.753418&t=h&z=6

I don't know DK8, but DK2 is disrupted by the Autobahn construction, so forget it. Plus the traffic is so high that you simply could not imagine. Rows of truck that prohibit taking over for kilometers. I managed to take over once on the ca 100km section. 


Another trick is this: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...30344,16.410828&spn=1.142058,2.469177&t=h&z=9

You would take Karl Marx Alee, then B1, then DK22, DK24, then you would join the DK2 when most of the traffic is already gone onto the highway. Disadvantage:you have to drive through a city. The DK22 and DK24 are pretty usually empty, though, and so is B1 up to Berliner Ring.


----------



## E2rdEm

mdhookey said:


> but is there a map showing non-motorway/expressway *DK* national road construction or reconstructions out there?


Sure there is, you can always count on polish forumers:

current version here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=58846487#post58846487

Always get the latest version by clicking at @IgorSel's signature.


----------



## mr.cool

Thanks wojtop, E2rdEm and LMB for your suggestions and your advice!  maybe in 5 years time i can cut my journey time from swiecko to chelm by half with all these brand new motorways being built! Poland is very much changing for the better as to what i saw it was 10 years ago. Is the wage problem still the same though? Everything else is going up in price except the minimum wage, i know this is slightly off topic, just wondered if its going to change!


----------



## fetg_

E2rdEm, Warsaw is Europes second most congested city after Brussel. And polish car ownership is going up also.

Heavy congestion will still be there dispite the efforts(ringroad etc) that takes place right now.


----------



## mdhookey

^^^^^^^^
Thanks *E2rdEm*. That's a fantastic map! 

By the way, after browsing the Polish forums, I have to say that work on the new portions of S3 are looking great.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=496160&page=318


----------



## RipleyLV

^^ Google translate.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nope, c'mon, these are basic Polish road terms. 

Dwu = Dwa = 2
Jedno = Jeden = 1
jezdniowe = carriageway


----------



## RipleyLV

I was just joking Chris, that's elementary class.


----------



## ufonut

Wroclaw bypass from above



salto_angel said:


> ^^ no dobra. To przekleję:
> 
> Fot. 1 AOW – Łącznik Kobierzyce - Magnice E-W
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fot. 2 AOW – Obiekt WA 2 - Km 2.0 - 5.0 2 S-N
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fot. 3 AOW - Obiekt WA 15 - Węzeł Lotnisko W-E
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fot. 4 AOW – Obiekty: WD16, WA15 - Węzeł Lotnisko N-S
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fot. 5 AOW – Obiekty: WŁ 6.2, WA 6, WŁ 6.3, WA 6.1 - Węzeł Nowa Wieś W-E
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fot. 6 AOW - Obiekty: WA 9.1, WŁ 9', WA 9, MA 8 - Węzeł Cesarzowice W-E


----------



## ChrisZwolle

"Houston, we have a problem"
"what is it?"
"There's an airport in the way"









A1 north of Katowice, near Katowice Airport.

How are they gonna build A1 around it? Or underneath it?


----------



## toonczyk

Around.
http://siskom.waw.pl/autostrady/a1/a1_km467-475.jpg


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Cool, you have to pay toll while aircraft are landing just a few meters above you


----------



## michael_siberia

toonczyk said:


> Around.
> http://siskom.waw.pl/autostrady/a1/a1_km467-475.jpg


And simultaneously underneath.


----------



## ufonut

A4 Krakow-Opole 



tomekwrz said:


> Nareszcie filmy się wrzuciły. Filmy przyspieszone podwójnie czyli jedziemy prawie wszędzie 260km/h.  Na płatnym odcinku było jedno zwężenie do jednego pasa ruchu które widać na filmie (cz.3 - 3:06). No i na Sośnicy zwężenie z powodu robót drogowych a nie wypadku (Jechałem 10 lipca czyli już po oddaniu węzła do ruchu).:sly: W pierwszej części na początku opanowywałem statyw ale później jest już wszystko w porządku.


----------



## Miguel_PL

It's rather Szarów - Opole, not Kraków - Opole...


----------



## Blaskovitz

High temperatures on roads in all Poland. hno:


----------



## Sasza

^^ And all over the Europe..


----------



## msz2

Tenders for rebuilding S-7 (Kielce bypass 22km), prices are given in Polish zloty (1Euro = 4PLN), one lane of S-7 in this section exist, so future contractor will have to add second lane plus demolish existing viaducts and bridges and buid new one.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. PBG S.A., APRIVIA S.A., HYDROBUDOWA POLSKA S.A., SIAC Construction Ltd. 836 192 298,45 

2. "DROGBUD" Podkarpacki Holding Budowy Dróg Sp. z o.o., Przedsiębiorstwo Inżynieryjne IMB-Podbeskidzie Sp. z o.o., Shanghai Urban Construction (Group) Corporation, Zakład Transportowo – Sprzętowy "TRAWOS" 983 687 868,38

3. BÖGL & KRÝSL k.s., BOGL & KRYSL POLSKA Sp. z o.o., MSF – Moniz Da Maia, Serra & Fortunato – Empreiteiros S.A., MSF Polska Sp. z o.o. 803 898 172,03

4. Mota – Engil Polska S.A., Mota – Engil Engenharia e Construcao, S.A. 772 800 348,02

5. STRABAG Sp. z o.o., HERMANN KIRCHNER Polska Sp. z o .o., HERMANN KIRCHNER Bauunternehmung GmbH, Zakład Robót Mostowych Mostmar Marcin i Grzegorz Marcinków 890 382 140,62

6. ALPINE Bau GmbH, FCC CONSTRUCCION S.A., WAKOZ Sp. z o.o. 729 944 829,48

7. Mostostal Warszawa S.A., Acciona Infraestructuras S.A. 641 560 059,65

8. Przedsiębiorstwo Robót Inżynieryjnych "FART" Sp. z o.o., POLDIM S.A., ERBUD S.A., Przedsiębiorstwo Robót Mostowych "MOSTY-ŁÓDŹ S.A., INTERCOR Sp. z o.o. Przedsiębiorstwo Usług Technicznych 785 406 345,68

9. EUROVIA POLSKA S.A., WARBUD S.A., EUROVIA VERKEHRSBAU UNION GMBH, EUROVIA CS, Świętokrzyskie Przedsiębiorstwo Robót Drogowych – "TRAKT" Sp. z o.o., INTOP Tarnobrzeg Sp. z o.o. 825 537 103,97

10. DRAGADOS S.A., REM-WOD Sp. z o.o. 797 979 280,72


*Client budget: 986 231 000,00 PLN brutto*


----------



## AlexisMD

msz2 said:


> Tenders for rebuilding S-7 (Kielce bypass 22km), prices are given in Polish zloty (1PLN = 4Euro),[/B]


:lol:

maybe 1 EURO = 4 PLN ?)


----------



## SeanT

Sasza said:


> ^^ And all over the Europe..


 Well, Balaton-see in Hungary is 30 (1m). 
So it is SUMMER!!!!:banana:


----------



## Rusonaldo

Del


----------



## Fuzzy Llama

msz2 said:


> Polish zloty (1PLN = 4Euro)


Ah, if only it was true...


----------



## SeanT

I would be very glad if HUF would have the same (or just near) value as PLN:lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's not good at all. You'll price yourself way out of the European labor market.


----------



## Blaskovitz

Autostrada A2.


----------



## dawid_silesia

Part 5


Devilfish said:


> Przedostatnia juz czesc:


----------



## dawid_silesia

Part 6


Devilfish said:


> Ostatnia porcja:


----------



## Czas na Żywiec

Today they greenlighted the construction of S69 from Bielsko-Biała to Żywiec.  15,3km connecting the already existing section in Żywiec to the under-construction bypass of Bielsko-Biała to be completed in November 2012. The only section left to complete the S69 is now the [tunnel] bypass of the town of Węgierska Górka. (between Żywiec and Szare)

http://translate.google.com/transla...nwestycje.blog.bielsko.pl/blog_news,1790.html

(Pretty bad) English translation of the source. GDDKiA hasn't updated their website yet.


----------



## ufonut

A1 (Grudziadz-Torun) by Christoferus



Christoferus said:


> Dzięki uprzejmości znajomego trochę zdjęć z powietrza :cheers:
> 
> Most pod Toruniem:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Węzeł Lubicz:





Christoferus said:


> c.d.
> 
> Węzeł Nowe Marzy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most pod Grudziądzem:


----------



## ufonut

A2 (Swiecko-Nowy Tomysl) by Carte




























More photos in here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=389291&page=189


----------



## g.spinoza

I like very much this motorway running through the woods


----------



## ufonut

g.spinoza said:


> I like very much this motorway running through the woods


Italians seem to love driving through dense forrests. I met many Italian tourists in Poland and they didn't really care about churches or castles but they were in awe when their bus tour operator drove on DK8 (which is now slowly becoming an expressway) between Wyszkow and Ostrow Mazowiecka. 

In order to feel the "power" of the woods you have to pick a single lane road, stay away from highways or expressways. It is just not the same. 

In Mazuria there are some areas where you literally feel like driving through a tunnel because not only do you see a wall of trees on each side of the road but also above where branches are conjoined.


----------



## g.spinoza

ufonut said:


> Italians seem to love driving through dense forrests. I met many Italian tourists in Poland and they didn't really care about churches or castles


That's because we just have plenty of them. I read somewhere that Italy has more than 50% of the architectonic wonders in the world... I don't know if it's just plain exageration or if it's true, but we are rarely impressed by "just a church"... 

Conversely, we haven't many forests left... just on mountains


----------



## Sylver

Does Carte have a plane that he takes to take pictures??


----------



## michael_siberia

He has his pilot, WZZ048  And they fly by a cessna.


----------



## LMB

michael_siberia said:


> He has his pilot, WZZ048  And they fly a cessna.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oanHA0gP4V4


----------



## drzamich

Ladies and gentelmen, I'd love to announce that in Poland we have now over 1000km of motorways and highways under construction.


----------



## Rusonaldo

Del


----------



## Wover

Hello Polish forumers, I'd like your advice on a cross-Poland trip.

http://www.wover.be/roadtripest/3.html

Click 4 - 5 - 6 ... For the next stages and check the travel times and routes that I wrote down. Are they realistic (on that time of the day) and should I change the route (going through Warszawa at night is probably as fast as taking the bypass that google suggests?).

Greetings,

Wout


----------



## LMB

Wover said:


> Hello Polish forumers, I'd like your advice on a cross-Poland trip.
> 
> http://www.wover.be/roadtripest/3.html
> 
> Click 4 - 5 - 6 ... For the next stages and check the travel times and routes that I wrote down. Are they realistic (on that time of the day) and should I change the route (going through Warszawa at night is probably as fast as taking the bypass that google suggests?).


http://www.wover.be/roadtripest/4.html : unrealistic. Maybe at night it will be better, but the first 110km goes along a highway construction, and it's an old road. Daytime it would take 3,5 hours.

http://www.wover.be/roadtripest/5.html Gemiddelde snelheid: 105kph possible. 

http://www.wover.be/roadtripest/6.html Gemiddelde snelheid: 73kph - on the optimistic side. 

Overall, give yourself some 1,5 hours more.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't think you can maintain an average speed of 80+ km/h on rural roads, even at night. You have to pass through numerous villages. Unless you want to blast through Poland and never look at speed limits.


----------



## seem

drzamich said:


> Ladies and gentelmen, I'd love to announce that in Poland we have now over 1000km of motorways and highways under construction.


Is there any map where are marked just U/C and open sections? 

:cheers:


----------



## toonczyk

It's true what ChrisZwolle says, I'd probably add some time margin in case of non-highway stretches just to be on the safe side. Route is alright, going through Warsaw would probably be a bit faster at night, but if you catch some delays on the way and enter Warsaw around 6, you could end up stuck in some early traffic near the bridges for example. Your route is safer, but it's far from comfortable. Some of those b-roads are in rather poor condition, not to mention that they go through villages with 50km/h speed limit.



seem said:


> Is there any map where are marked just U/C and open sections?
> 
> :cheers:


There you go, map by *merdek*.
Motorways - red, epressways - orange, solid line - ready, dashed line - u/c.


----------



## seem

toonczyk said:


> There you go, map by *merdek*.
> Motorways - red, epressways - orange, solid line - ready, dashed line - u/c.


Thank you for nice map. Anyway, I understand Polish but for other forumers it would be useful. 

I am just wondering why they are building motorway from Lodz to seeside. I bet it`s more important to connect Lodz with Warszawa and Krakow.


----------



## toonczyk

seem said:


> I am just wondering why they are building motorway from Lodz to seeside. I bet it`s more important to connect Lodz with Warszawa and Krakow.


Highway connecting Łódź and Warsaw is awaiting final construction permit, construction should get under way in a month or two. Construction of A1 south of Łódź unfortunately won't begin anytime soon, it was supposed to be already U/C, but private company that was chosen to build it couldn't secure funding, so in the end it's going to be built by the government. But the earliest for the whole A1 to be finished is mid 2014.


----------



## MAG

Wover said:


> Hello Polish forumers, I'd like your advice on a cross-Poland trip ...


Here are my estimates, for the purpose of planning your trip:
- deel 3 - 110 km/h just because you are likely to stop plus the A2/A10 can get clogged up
- deel 4a - D/PL border to Nowy Tomyśl, you'll be lucky to average 60 km/h
- deel 4b - Nowy Tomyśl to Września, average 110 km/h
- deel 5 - 95 km/h
- deel 6 - 60 km/h
- deel 7 - 70 km/h


That's my opinion based on personal experience. If you beat these averages, the beer is on me!




seem said:


> I am just wondering why they are building motorway from Lodz to seaside.


The Łódź to seaside road is part of the A1, which will run from the Baltic to PL/CZ border.



.


----------



## seem

del pls, thanks Chris


----------



## seem

toonczyk said:


> But the earliest for the whole A1 to be finished is mid 2014.


Let`s start. 

I will be happy if it wil be open in 2014, but I am a little bit sceptic.


----------



## Blaskovitz

S5 - DŚU 
S3 - U/C


----------



## Biesiada

^^ similar map was posted on previous page. was there some spectacular road investment today ?!


----------



## Rusonaldo

S5 Gniezno - Bydgoszcz - Świecie (A1)


----------



## Biesiada

and S7 now reached mazowian border near mlawa , formerly it reached as far as nidzica . i know it's an amatour map but what happened ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I swear I've seen the Świecie bypass labeled as S1 somewhere...


----------



## polskadan

Does anyone have any updates on the plans to build expressway S6 from Gdansk to Szczecin? Are environmental issues stalling plans for construction?


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## ChrisZwolle

Actually, 180 kilometers of S6 have recently been approved all the way from Goleniów to Slupsk.


----------



## Sylver

Any plans in building any roads in the Eastern part of Poland? (Podlaskie, Mazuria, etc.)


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## Jakub Warszauer

There are no plans. Preserving pure nature .


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## piotr71

ChrisZwolle said:


> I swear I've seen the Świecie bypass labeled as S1 somewhere...


Here?











This section of Swiecie by-pass will remain S1 untill opening A1 to Torun.


----------



## Sylver

Jakub Warszauer said:


> There are no plans. Preserving pure nature .


The fight about the Rospuda Valley is still going on? So Via Baltica wont be built anytime soon?


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## Mateusz

I think it was simply an irony, of course there are plans.


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## Van der Rohe

Biesiada said:


> ^^ similar map was posted on previous page. was there some spectacular road investment today ?!


the map is useless without an explanation of colours in english:
green - existing
red - u/c
purple - design+construction contract signed
yellow - tender open
blue - environmental approval of the location - tender procedures can start


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## michael_siberia

Van der Rohe said:


> blue - environmental approval of the location - tender procedures can start


Tender can be announced without envirnmental approval.


----------



## Uppsala

What about the Berlinka? Are there any realistic plans to really make a motorway/expressway from German border to the Kaliningrad border?


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## Blaskovitz

^^ A6->S3->S6->S7->S22.


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## Warsawbynight

Uppsala said:


> What about the Berlinka? Are there any realistic plans to really make a motorway/expressway from German border to the Kaliningrad border?


Not sooner than 2015. Now we have other priorities. Anyway preparations for S6 expressway Szczecin-Gdańsk are going quite well.


----------



## mr.cool

Hi everyone, currently i'm travelling through Polska but i find one thing very annoying and i need to ask this whats with these stupid grey speed cameras? Do all of them work? They are very hard to see sometimes especially during the night and sometimes have no indication of what the speed limit is. I must've gone through at least 20 already but i don't know if i was travelling at the right speed because some signs through some towns have a sign of 70 kph then 10 metres later another sign of 50 kph comes up!!! Can you please tell me what's going on??


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## ChrisZwolle

A18 reconstruction has been approved  (DSU)


----------



## kalle_sg

mr.cool said:


> Hi everyone, currently i'm travelling through Polska but i find one thing very annoying and i need to ask this whats with these stupid grey speed cameras? Do all of them work? They are very hard to see sometimes especially during the night and sometimes have no indication of what the speed limit is. I must've gone through at least 20 already but i don't know if i was travelling at the right speed because some signs through some towns have a sign of 70 kph then 10 metres later another sign of 50 kph comes up!!! Can you please tell me what's going on??


Not all of them work. Actually, I believe most of them don't. The point is that the driver never knows if this specific one works or not (it changes every once in a while). The only way to make sure not to get fined is to pay attention to all the traffic signs and obey them. As simple as that. And it works not only with the speed cameras


----------



## ufonut

mr.cool said:


> Hi everyone, currently i'm travelling through Polska but i find one thing very annoying and i need to ask this whats with these stupid grey speed cameras? Do all of them work? They are very hard to see sometimes especially during the night and sometimes have no indication of what the speed limit is. I must've gone through at least 20 already but i don't know if i was travelling at the right speed because some signs through some towns have a sign of 70 kph then 10 metres later another sign of 50 kph comes up!!! Can you please tell me what's going on??


They are all real but some are turned on and some are turned off. Usually you can tell the difference by looking directly at the camera's lenses (blacked out is turned off). Unfortunaly by the time you get close enough to make that distinction a picture of your car is already taken (if the camera is turned on of course). A bit of a catch 22 here. 

Now if you are driving on foreign plates the chances are that you will never get any bills(I would say 99% of the time) since any printouts of photos containing foreign licence lates are basically discarted by those who look at the pictures and mail them out (the system is still based on manual labor and undergoing automatization). 

So I wouldn't worry too much about it.

About the 70km/h and 50km/h few meters later. That's the whole point. That's where they will put the speed trap, you are exiting one speed zone and entering another.


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

mr.cool said:


> Hi everyone, currently i'm travelling through Polska but i find one thing very annoying and i need to ask this whats with these stupid grey speed cameras? Do all of them work? They are very hard to see sometimes especially during the night and sometimes have no indication of what the speed limit is. I must've gone through at least 20 already but i don't know if i was travelling at the right speed because some signs through some towns have a sign of 70 kph then 10 metres later another sign of 50 kph comes up!!! Can you please tell me what's going on??


About 1/4 of gray boxes are filled with cameras. Law enforcment changes their location on regular basis. Most dangerous location are guarded non-stop.

In nearly every town in Poland there is 50 kph limit on 1x2 streets. The "70" sign is usually used for gradual speed reduction. It's possible, that someone put these signs one after another, but it should be more than 10 meters.

If you drive carefully and according to law, nothing bad will happen to you. If not, expect expensive mail delivery...


----------



## ufonut

ChrisZwolle said:


> A18 reconstruction has been approved  (DSU)


Now that's what I call news. After several years of going back and forth with environmentalists finally a decision is made. 

This stretch of highway (south lane) is a shame of Poland. Finally they will rip it up completely.


----------



## ufonut

Poland must be a very rich country. This perfectly good looking concrete stretch of DK8 between Warsaw and Piotrkow Trybunalski will be destroyed and replaced with even smoother and newer concrete and become S8.


----------



## kalle_sg

ufonut said:


> Poland must be a very rich country. This perfectly good looking concrete stretch of DK8 between Warsaw and Piotrkow Trybunalski will be destroyed and replaced with even smoother and newer concrete and become S8.


It so happens that I drove this road just a couple days ago. Only a part of it looks like this. Most of it is old asphalt, with ruts and holes. Not to mention one-level intersections and pedestrian crossings.


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## Sponsor

mr.cool said:


> They (...) sometimes have no indication of what the speed limit is.


There's always some speed limit to follow


----------



## ufonut

kalle_sg said:


> It so happens that I drove this road just a couple days ago. Only a part of it looks like this. Most of it is old asphalt, with ruts and holes. Not to mention one-level intersections and pedestrian crossings.


I wasn't talking about the stretch made of asphalt but the one made of concrete. One-level crossings can be redesigned without the need to rip up a perfectly reasonable S-quality road.


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## ufonut

S11 (western bypass of Poznan) by Carte


----------



## delfin_pl

Poland reminds me Spain in 90's with its road construction boom :cheers:


----------



## Piotrek_409

> I wasn't talking about the stretch made of asphalt but the one made of concrete. One-level crossings can be redesigned without the need to rip up a perfectly reasonable S-quality road.


Are You sure about this? I thought they will only upgrade junctions on the 'concrete' part. If it is true, what a waste of money :/.


----------



## 1vincent1

delfin_pl said:


> Poland reminds me Spain in 90's with its road construction boom :cheers:


I'm waiting for a massive railway boom then.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Roads are much more urgent right now, it's the biggest growing transport sector in Poland, and before 2005 the far majority of the Polish main roads failed to meet minimum axle load demands. Furthermore, only a small proportion of the TEN-networks were of high standard. Thousands of kilometers of A and S-roads are needed to meet the demands of a growing economy.

I'm sure we'll see some more improvements in rail later on (like happened in Spain).


----------



## aswnl

1vincent1 said:


> I'm waiting for a massive railway boom then.


Also waiting for the massive tax rise which is needed to fund the extra infrastructure, extra rolling stock and extra personnel (who need also a yearly increase in wages) ?


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Roads are much more urgent right now, it's the biggest growing transport sector in Poland, and before 2005 the far majority of the Polish main roads failed to meet minimum axle load demands. Furthermore, only a small proportion of the TEN-networks were of high standard. Thousands of kilometers of A and S-roads are needed to meet the demands of a growing economy.


Chris, double the bad state of polish roads before UE-enlargment and you might have a sense of the state of our rail infrastructure. Its disastrous.

Even though it is a road-centered thread and forum section, we shouldn't forget how important railways are. Especially for mobility within metropolitan areas and goods transit.


----------



## ufonut

Contract signed for a stretch of S5 between Poznan and Wroclaw (Kaczkowo – Korzeńsko.). Length is 29.3 km.

So this week ends with *1052 km of highways and expressways U/C*


----------



## Chris80678

ufonut said:


> Now that's what I call news. After several years of going back and forth with environmentalists finally a decision is made.
> 
> This stretch of highway (south lane) is a shame of Poland. Finally they will rip it up completely.


Excellent news about the A18 reconstruction - it is long overdue! 
Goodness knows how long it will take to get rid of the current concrete slabs on the A18. Its going to take some specialist machinery to destroy the 'stairway to heaven' surface. When will reconstruction of the southbound lane begin? The A18 reconstruction is surely a priority project to complement the faster link between central Poland and Germany when the A2 is finished.


----------



## Rusonaldo




----------



## Chris80678

I think that once all of Poland's expressways and motorways are complete its road distance signs should be revised and insignificant border villages removed and substituted for the major city outside Poland's borders to which the motorway or expressway leads to. But progress has been made with Berlin showing on A2 and A6 signs, Ostrava on A1 signs, Dresden on A4 signs so that is promising. For now its more important to get Poland's motorways and expressways up to scratch.


----------



## Barciur

That's true, I think new signs will be erected on highways and expressways, old DK (droga krajowa) can stay the way they are.


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## Chris80678

Barciur said:


> That's true, I think new signs will be erected on highways and expressways, old DK (droga krajowa) can stay the way they are.


I agree, there is no need to change current signs on old DK roads


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## ChrisZwolle

This should be interesting.

Poland got an extensive update on Google Earth imagery. (Maps will follow later).



Rzeszów, Tarnów, Bielsko-Biala, Lodz, northern Poland, Silesian cities (including Katowice), Poznan, Gdansk, Szczecin, Jelenia Gora, Nowy Sacz, Kraków, Czestochowa, Radom, Kielce, Bydgoszcz, etc.


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## Mateusz

Sweet... I'm gonna check it out now


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## ANDY*krk

But now in Krakow the picture is older than it was:nuts:


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## tompaw

I just came back from a 5-day trip to the sea side. We drove from Krakow via DK7 and came back via A1/A4. Here are the maps for both routes:

Going away:










Going back:










Speed is represented by the color (darker = faster, darkest = ~210 kph). It's funny how these two routes are quite the opposite to each other in terms of road qualities and general driving pleasure.

However, one thing I must say is: *this whole country is a huge construction site*. Everywhere we went, there were new roads being built. Even though there were delays and queues which made the whole drive 7 hour long, I can't wait till we hit A1 in 2012'ish.


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## Surel

As I rather admired the Polish approach towards the motorways construction in the last few years (mainly on the financial and corruption level of the business) and I thought that they really managed to get rid of the schweinerei that the Czechs did not managed yet in this sector. I was merely put back to place by this news by Gazeta Wyborcza:

news

The construction company on A1 brought the dolomitic gravel to the site in the day and billed it as so, however in the night it replaced the comparably expansive gravel with sand or mine waste rock... The high quality gravel was then moved forward...

I cannot really imagine how this could be done in reality to not raise suspicions. Eventually it did, and polish police documented this process yesterday night, live!

In fact this should make me admire them even more, since they at least had the guts to discover this and stop it, however I am afraid that on the czech construction sites happened many of these "cover ups" and the quality and "price" in certain parts may correspond to it.

Well done, polish police!


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## ufonut

It was not police that busted them but CBS which is a formation similar to the FBI in the US. CBS = Central Investigation Bureau. They orchestrated an undercover operation (or a sting) and apprehended 7 individuals working for a subcontractor company building a stretch of A1 in Bytom.

I have never heard of anything like this happen before but I am glad that certain agencies are monitoring things. It's a known fact that any major investment in Poland which is deemed "strategic" is always under a close eye of either CBS, CBA or ABW.


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## Capt.Vimes

ufonut said:


> It was not police that busted them but CBS which is a formation similar to the FBI in the US. CBS = Central Investigation Bureau. They orchestrated an undercover operation (or a sting) and apprehended 7 individuals working for a subcontractor company building a stretch of A1 in Bytom.
> 
> I have never heard of anything like this happen before but I am glad that certain agencies are monitoring things. It's a known fact that any major investment in Poland which is deemed "strategic" is always under a close eye of either CBS, CBA or ABW.


What are CBA and ABW?


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## PhirgataZFs1694

Capt.Vimes said:


> What are CBA and ABW?


C-c-c. How can you ask such stupid questions?:nuts: CBA is a hypermarket chain:

















:rofl:

Anyway,good for polish law enforcement authorities and agencieskay:


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## kapturek

Capt.Vimes said:


> What are CBA and ABW?


websites: ABW, CBA


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## Vanaheim

Capt.Vimes said:


> What are CBA and ABW?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Anticorruption_Bureau
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agencja_Bezpieczeństwa_Wewnętrznego


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## GrimFadango

On topic - map flooooood:

*Legend*
_Main elements of transportation system in 2030_
== motorway
-- expressway
- - oversea's connections
<|> airports

_Complementation of transportation system_

~~ new (roads & rails)
~ rised standard of current route in operating connection system
<||> central airport


















Table 2 shows roads with standard will be raised to A- motroway, B - expressway in 2020/2030.









More maps:

Proposed Vysehrad TEN-T network:


















Some users proposals: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=204801&page=79


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## GrimFadango

Collision free roads in Poland by *IgorSel*:master:

*Legend:*

[in operation] [under construction] [contract signed] [in tender] [project&bulid] [enviromental decision]

Motorway 2x2 and up
Expressway 2x2 and up
Expressway 1x2

National roads:
Collision-free 2x2/1x2
Collisional 2x2/1x2 (level crossings etc.)

(these two can be easily rised to expresway standard)


----------



## Danielk2

:wtf: Will it be 2015 before A18 Olszyna-Krzywa will be an autostrada??

Then i won't be back in PL within the next 5 yrs


----------



## Curz

ANDY*krk said:


> But now in Krakow the picture is older than it was:nuts:


Maybe older but finally its HQ! Hope Warsaw and Wroclaw get it soon too.


----------



## nextvkin

Hi Ripley LV,
Great pics you've got there. I recognised the colourful bridge & the animal crossing from my trip about 2 years ago. Judging from the time & date of my photos I reckon they're near Poznan, however I can't seem to pinpoint the location on Google map. Can you help? Thanks.


----------



## RipleyLV

nextvkin said:


> Hi Ripley LV,
> Great pics you've got there. I recognised the colourful bridge & the animal crossing from my trip about 2 years ago. Judging from the time & date of my photos I reckon they're near Poznan, however I can't seem to pinpoint the location on Google map. Can you help? Thanks.


Hi, nextvkin! You couldn't pinpoint the objects on map, because you were looking in the wrong place. They both are located near a small town called Koło (~115km from Poznań). I'm giving you the link to the colourful bridge: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=52.14197,18.567066&daddr=&hl=lv&geocode=&mra=mift&mrsp=0&sz=15&sll=52.143655,18.568311&sspn=0.012194,0.043774&ie=UTF8&ll=52.142628,18.568311&spn=0.012194,0.043774&t=h&z=15 
and the animal crossing: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=52.140152,18.353519&daddr=&hl=lv&geocode=&mra=mift&mrsp=0&sz=16&sll=52.140297,18.353949&sspn=0.006097,0.021887&doflg=ptk&ie=UTF8&ll=52.1401,18.351803&spn=0.012195,0.043774&t=k&z=15 

Hope I helped enough.


----------



## delfin_pl

^^^ what pics?


----------



## RipleyLV

^^ Post #1134 http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=441854&page=57


----------



## Blaskovitz

Newest


----------



## kamilbuk

^^ I'm glad that more and more parts of polish highways & motorways are visible on this map. It means that the entire process of building including bureaucracy is in progress. kay:


----------



## Surel

When should be the A1 nearby Katowice finished? I mean the part under construction (marked red). It would fit very nice connection from Ostrava towards the Katowice airport (around one hour).

It is a shame that the Ostrava's (Mošnov) airport policy went and still goes against the low costs airliners.

Let me pour some words as I got blown with map of this region.

Overall as I look at the map I see quite densely connected Silesian region (jointly the Czech and Polish part). Let me see... Poland: A4, A1, S1, S86, DK1, DK81 and Czech: D1, R48, R56, I11, I59,

I know that DK1 and DK81 are both 2x2 higways, are they going to be both upgraded to S or this awaits only DK1?


I see that there arises great potential in this region. Bit more integration and the fruit will get ripe, which would be only logical given the history of this region. To give an idea to not Polish, non Czech readers, here is the map of the reagion: map In a circle of around 50 km radius are to be found cities: Ostrava, Katowice, Gliwice, Rybnik, Sosnoviec, Bielsko-Biala. Only these biggest cities themselves count roughly up to 1 200 000 inhabitants. The whole area counts up to around 5,3 million (wiki) and makes thus one big metropolitan area.

Since this is the higway forum, here's mine point. I would guess that the substiancially improved connection of the region, plus together with the new cross border motorway connection (however there is still lack of more dense lower standard connection, perhaps in planning too???) could hugelly mobilize the potential of this conurbation. The historical developement of this region is much the same the history of Rurh area in Germany. It specialty is that it is a cross border region, the core situated in Poland.

I expect rather fast develepoment of this region, which is finally also connected to the European motorway network, it has two airports on opposite sides nearby sister cities of Katowice and Ostrava. The finishing of D1 A1 connection and R48 S1 line, together with futher scattered interconections should be of highest priority here...


----------



## Blaskovitz

Surel said:


> I know that DK1 and DK81 are both 2x2 higways, are they going to be both upgraded to S or this awaits only DK1?


No they will be only DK roads. But probably in 2016-2018(I know that's sucks) S1 will be complete from Lędziny to Bielsko-Biała via Bieruń, Brzeszcze etc. and S52 from Bielsko-Biała to Kraków(via Kęty, Andrychów, Wadowice, Kalwaria Zebrzydowska). So this will be very huge region.


----------



## ufonut

Surel said:


> When should be the A1 nearby Katowice finished? I mean the part under construction (marked red). It would fit very nice connection from Ostrava towards the Katowice airport (around one hour).
> 
> It is a shame that the Ostrava's (Mošnov) airport policy went and still goes against the low costs airliners.
> 
> Let me pour some words as I got blown with map of this region.
> 
> Overall as I look at the map I see quite densely connected Silesian region (jointly the Czech and Polish part). Let me see... Poland: A4, A1, S1, S86, DK1, DK81 and Czech: D1, R48, R56, I11, I59,
> 
> I know that DK1 and DK81 are both 2x2 higways, are they going to be both upgraded to S or this awaits only DK1?
> 
> 
> I see that there arises great potential in this region. Bit more integration and the fruit will get ripe, which would be only logical given the history of this region. To give an idea to not Polish, non Czech readers, here is the map of the reagion: map In a circle of around 50 km radius are to be found cities: Ostrava, Katowice, Gliwice, Rybnik, Sosnoviec, Bielsko-Biala. Only these biggest cities themselves count roughly up to 1 200 000 inhabitants. The whole area counts up to around 5,3 million (wiki) and makes thus one big metropolitan area.
> 
> Since this is the higway forum, here's mine point. I would guess that the substiancially improved connection of the region, plus together with the new cross border motorway connection (however there is still lack of more dense lower standard connection, perhaps in planning too???) could hugelly mobilize the potential of this conurbation. The historical developement of this region is much the same the history of Rurh area in Germany. It specialty is that it is a cross border region, the core situated in Poland.
> 
> I expect rather fast develepoment of this region, which is finally also connected to the European motorway network, it has two airports on opposite sides nearby sister cities of Katowice and Ostrava. The finishing of D1 A1 connection and R48 S1 line, together with futher scattered interconections should be of highest priority here...



You forgot about DTS (interurban highway) which is partly finished, partly under construction and just got a green light last week for extension  When finished it will connect Gliwice with Katowice (if I am not mistaken) and will run parallel to A4. 

Here is a long running thread about DTS

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=428549&page=176


----------



## geogregor

Surel said:


> When should be the A1 nearby Katowice finished? I mean the part under construction (marked red). It would fit very nice connection from Ostrava towards the Katowice airport (around one hour).
> 
> It is a shame that the Ostrava's (Mošnov) airport policy went and still goes against the low costs airliners.
> 
> Let me pour some words as I got blown with map of this region.
> 
> Overall as I look at the map I see quite densely connected Silesian region (jointly the Czech and Polish part). Let me see... Poland: A4, A1, S1, S86, DK1, DK81 and Czech: D1, R48, R56, I11, I59,
> 
> I know that DK1 and DK81 are both 2x2 higways, are they going to be both upgraded to S or this awaits only DK1?
> 
> 
> I see that there arises great potential in this region. Bit more integration and the fruit will get ripe, which would be only logical given the history of this region. To give an idea to not Polish, non Czech readers, here is the map of the reagion: map In a circle of around 50 km radius are to be found cities: Ostrava, Katowice, Gliwice, Rybnik, Sosnoviec, Bielsko-Biala. Only these biggest cities themselves count roughly up to 1 200 000 inhabitants. The whole area counts up to around 5,3 million (wiki) and makes thus one big metropolitan area.
> 
> Since this is the higway forum, here's mine point. I would guess that the substiancially improved connection of the region, plus together with the new cross border motorway connection (however there is still lack of more dense lower standard connection, perhaps in planning too???) could hugelly mobilize the potential of this conurbation. The historical developement of this region is much the same the history of Rurh area in Germany. It specialty is that it is a cross border region, the core situated in Poland.
> 
> I expect rather fast develepoment of this region, which is finally also connected to the European motorway network, it has two airports on opposite sides nearby sister cities of Katowice and Ostrava. The finishing of D1 A1 connection and R48 S1 line, together with futher scattered interconections should be of highest priority here...


There is huge potential there. I know as I come from the middle of this region 
The problem is lack of interest in the integration. For start the motorways in both countries will be tolled in two different systems. Czech Republic opted for vignettes, Poland for toll booths. So if you want to commute from let say my home town of Jastrzebie to Ostrava (which should be about 20 min drive) you will have to pay toll at the gate in Poland and then get sticker for Czech motorways.
I wish Czechs made D47 toll free from the Border to Ostrava. It is only about 20km. That way they could get more visitors from Poland and what follows, more business. Also Poland could abandon tolls in the border region. Something like in France around Lille. Motorways between Lille, Roubaix, Tourcoing and Belgian Kortrijk are free. Also A25 to Dunkerque and A16 from there to Belgium are free. It helps to blend the region into economicaly one organism. 
If we want to achieve something like that in Polish - Czech border region we need some vision and initiative rather than toll systems which will make travel more difficult and expensive.


----------



## Surel

Thanks for the DTS link, very interesting. Is the main investor the polish government or the cities themselves? BTW is the plan to create the supercity Silesia any closer to realisation these days? I thought that the DTS project might be one of the sparks in this effort.


Since I come from Bohumin, I know what you're talking about Geogregor. 
Yeah, its shame that the roads are tolled, however I cannot really imagine leaving the D1 out of the toll these days (and we are talking only the <3,5 t toll, the toll for trucks I take as a given fact and wouldnt discuss it) as well as the A1.

I guess it should be possible to pay the toll at the future A1 sections also on yearly bases, right? Some yearly voucher allowing you to use that part? Some joint toll that would allow you to use the tolled roads on the other side of the PL-CZ border valid in that metro area for not very high surcharge to the national toll could solve the problem perhaps? Everyone has to use the national road system anyway, so paying just few more euros for the border section of neigbouring country wouldnt seem to be so hard decision for the drivers. The realisation is however not so easy, as the national authorities would have to approve this regional initiative.

Back to my first question. When do you see A1 as finished from the border to the Katowice airport? and one more... Is the A1 in the reagion attracting some foreign investment already? Especially in terms of big logistic centers serving both the Czech and Polish side?

Thanks


----------



## czerwony_bo_szybszy

Surel said:


> Back to my first question. When do you see A1 as finished from the border to the Katowice airport?
> Thanks


As far as I remember, (south->north)
Bohumin-Świerklany (between Rybnik, Żory, Jastrzębie & Wodzisław) 05.2012
Świerklany-Bełk (current southern end of A1) end.2010
Gliwice (A4xA1)-Zabrze Maciejów (DK88xA1) 07.2011 (delay possible due to flooding)
Zabrze Maciejów-Bytom-Piekary (route 911) end.2011 (also possible delay)
Piekary-Pyrzowice Airport 05.2012
+ on April 2010 interurban highway DTŚ will be ready in Zabrze (end in the city center de Gaulle street)

everything sounds great, in 2 year time, going to Prague from my home I`ll see first traffic lights on... Legerova ulice na Vinohradech v Praze in about 3:45 hours of driving ;D


----------



## geogregor

Surel said:


> I guess it should be possible to pay the toll at the future A1 sections also on yearly bases, right? Some yearly voucher allowing you to use that part? Some joint toll that would allow you to use the tolled roads on the other side of the PL-CZ border valid in that metro area for not very high surcharge to the national toll could solve the problem perhaps? Everyone has to use the national road system anyway, so paying just few more euros for the border section of neigbouring country wouldnt seem to be so hard decision for the drivers. The realisation is however not so easy, as the national authorities would have to approve this regional initiative.


It's going to be difficult to connect two such different systems like an annual fee for the whole system (Czech Republic) and paying per km driven (in Poland). I really hope for some solution but knowing all the bureaucracy involved I'm highly skeptical.
Unfortunately end result is going to be extra cost for the motorist. Somehow in much richer countries like France and Belgium authorities made decisions not to toll motorways in densely populated border regions even if their citizens are much more affluent and could afford it better than relatively poor Poles or Czechs.

Anyway, lets build A1 first. I really wonder how Alpina is going to cope with the controversial bridge in Mszana which design they previously contested. 

I'm really looking for A1 to Pyrzowice to be finished. It is going to be just 45 drive home from the airport.


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## nextvkin

Thanks Ripley LV, you've more than helped enough!


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## gramercy

Blaskovitz said:


> Newest


so much construction, it makes me jealous


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## stratotroter

^^ Unnecessarily. There is still much to do to achive at least a decent and extensive road network in Poland.


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## ChrisZwolle

True, Poland will need to catch up quickly with the rest of Europe, but is still lagging behind significantly. I wonder how things will look after 2012 - 2013. Then you will have a basic motorway network, and you can begin constructing the less urgent motorways / expressways to make rural regions better accessible (for example: S11, S12, S16, S17)


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> True, Poland will need to catch up quickly with the rest of Europe, but is still lagging behind significantly. I wonder how things will look after 2012 - 2013. Then you will have a basic motorway network, and you can begin constructing the less urgent motorways / expressways to make rural regions better accessible (for example: S11, S12, S16, S17)


After we have the main grid I expect an incredible row between western & central regions (arguing they need dense network) and eastern regions (arguing they are left behind, poor and needy). 

Practicly it will mean we have to decide between S19 and S11 or S5.


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## and802

ChrisZwolle said:


> True, Poland will need to catch up quickly with the rest of Europe, but is still lagging behind significantly. I wonder how things will look after 2012 - 2013. Then you will have a basic motorway network, and you can begin constructing the less urgent motorways / expressways to make rural regions better accessible (for example: S11, S12, S16, S17)



apparently Chris reached the point. 
I do not think Poland has got a reasonable, valid, existent project plan for road infrastructure once we hit 2012 goals.

so I am very sceptic about it. OK we do have some high-level plans, but no confirmed dates at all. 

one may say: 

"hey, we finish this road till 2014, that one till 2016 ..." 


but my observation tells me the most time-consuming job is to do the paperwork (DŚ, bid). So I would say we can estimate finish dates for specific routes when the construction works start.


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## Blaskovitz

From Polish topic about S11(Poznań bypass): http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=63164001#post63164001



Carte said:


> Zdjęcia z 4 września zrobione między węzłami Zakrzewo i Swadzim:





Carte said:


>





Carte said:


>





Carte said:


> Więcej zdjęć: http://picasaweb.google.pl/Carte.drogi/ZOPSwadzimZakrzewo4092010#


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## ChrisZwolle

That "Carte" does a very good job with all those aerial updates


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## ChrisZwolle

When will S7 Kraków open? I thought it was somewhere in September?


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## michael_siberia

> When will S7 Kraków open?


First stage - perhaps in October, perhaps in November...


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## Chris80678

More importantly, what is the opening date for the S3 from Pyrzyce
to Myślibórz? September is the month it is supposed to be completed and open for use. Its not an especially long stretch of expressway but it will speed up the journey time between Szczecin and Gorzów Wlkp by a little bit


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## Blaskovitz

^^ October? We have local elections...


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## Blaskovitz

A8, Wrocław bypass :cheers: 



Slaworow85 said:


> Fotki z oficjalnej strony projektu; to, co lubimy najbardziej, czyli:
> 
> *ZDJĘCIA LOTNICZE:*
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> Fot. 20 Obiekt WA-17 – km 13+500 – 15+000 (S-N)
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> Fot. 21 Obiekt WA-17 (E-W)
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> Fot. 22 Węzeł Kosmonautów – obiekty WA-18 i WA-19 (S-N)
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> Fot. 23 Węzeł Kosmonautów – obiekty WA-19 i WA-18 (N-S)
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> Fot. 24 Obiekt WA-20 (E-W)
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> Fot. 25 Obiekt WA-22A’ (W-E)
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> Fot. 26 Obiekt WA-22A (E-W)
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> Fot. 27 Węzeł Widawa – obiekty WA-23, WA-24, WA-24’ , rondo na ulicy Żmigrodzkiej (W-E)
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> Fot. 28 Obiekty WA-24’, WA-24, WA-23, rondo na ulicy Żmigrodzkiej , Węzeł Widawa (E-W)
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> Fot. 29 Obiekt MA-26 (N-S)
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> Fot. 30 Km 26,5 – 20,0 ; obiekty MA-26, WA-25.2, MA-25.1, WA-24’, WA-24, WA-23, WA-22
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> Fot. 31 Węzeł Pawłowice , obiekty WN-1, WA-28, WA-27 (E-W)
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> Fot. 32 Łącznik Długołęka – km 1,5 – 5,0 (E-W)
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> Fot. 33 Obiekt KZ-B (N-S)
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> Fot. 34 Łącznik Długołęka – km 6,2 - 4,0 ; obiekt MD-D (E-W)


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## delfin_pl

A1/A4 intersection by night


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## TheFlyPL

Patriikc said:


> how many lanes will one way have on those new highways ?
> like the A4, A8 etc..


Mainly they are / will be 2x2. In Silesia cities 2x3. In the video you can see intersection and that is why there are 2x3 or 2x4 for a while. 

Foto of intersection:
Link

I couldn't find a newer one. But there is an outline of this intrsection.


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## Blaskovitz

S69 Bielsko-Biała bypass by Marek Kocjan link: http://www.kocjan.pl/index.php


























































































































































































































and bonus, S1 to Cieszyn.


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## seem

I am very happy to see S69 under construction but in fact this is looking so bad-motorway in the middle of suburb. hno:


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## ChrisZwolle

There is no space to lead S69 further from Bielsko-Biala. It is surrounded by mountains and the rural area surrounding Bielsko is heavily urbanized.


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## Miguel_PL

seem said:


> I am very happy to see S69 under construction but in fact this is looking so bad-motorway in the middle of suburb. hno:


Yeah... and your D1 motorway crossing Povazska Bystrica is totally non disturbing in the residential areas...


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## Dantiscum

construction of the southern bypass of Gdańsk (S7)
- photos by Czesław



Czesław;63535525 said:


> Z dziś:
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> By czesio99 at 2010-09-11
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> By czesio99 at 2010-09-11
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> By czesio99 at 2010-09-11


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## seem

^^ Chris, I have been there just once in my life so thank you 



Miguel_PL said:


> Yeah... and your D1 motorway crossing Povazska Bystrica is totally non disturbing in the residential areas...


Hey, relax mate. Did I say something about Slovakia? 

Btw, D1 in PB is still not so bad, D1 "bypass" of Bratislava is even worse.


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## ufonut

S8 in Warsaw. Photos by Matrix4321

This part looks like it's nearing completion.


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## wyborczy

^^^^
Great!


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## and802

ufonut said:


> S8 in Warsaw


yes, close to completion, no serivce lanes marked yet


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## ChrisZwolle

You mean shoulder / emergency lane


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## and802

ChrisZwolle said:


> You mean shoulder / emergency lane


Meneer, my English comes from South Africa and there it is called "service lane", although I do not neglect the correct name is "emergency lane"


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## ChrisZwolle

Ah I see  I never heard of the term "service lane" other than to indicated services like gas stations.


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## and802

^^another funny term is "robots" which mean "traffic lights"

not to mention "net only" posted with direction road signs, which means only "only" but written both in Afrikaans and English. it took me a while to discover it ...


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## Blaskovitz

and802 said:


> Meneer, my English comes from South Africa and there it is called "service lane", although I do not neglect the correct name is "emergency lane"


Heh, you should speak Afrikaans for Chris  


:cheers:


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## and802

^^ I know only dirty words in Afrikaans, so Chris would not be willing to post anything back 

:cheers:


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## ufonut

Huge Sosnica interchange (A1/A4) from above.


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## Sagaris

Jakub Warszauer said:


> Practicly it will mean we have to decide between S19 and S11 or S5.


S11 please and thank you. Maybe then those four hour drives to Kolobrzeg (or any other sea side resort) would be cut drastically.


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## WB2010

ufonut said:


> Huge Sosnica interchange (A1/A4) from above.


A great idea and a very impressive interchange


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## GrimFadango

*Central European Motorways & Expressways in 2010-2013 per country.*



torunczyk said:


>


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## Blaskovitz

^^ Węgry - Hungary.


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## Xmaster

I guess it's not very appropriate just to take length of mtorways/expressways. Kilometers per "head" should be calculated, because then it would regard country's population.


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## Blaskovitz

S3 by our beloved *JacYk* :cheers:



JacYk said:


> *Fotki z dn.15.09.2010r.*
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> Moc sprawcza tego forum, czyni cuda (poniżej, to nie jedyny na to dowód). Ostatnio pokazywałem nadmiar wody w tym miejscu, a dziś pracowały już tam pompy.
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> *cdn...*
> Jutro wrzucę zdjęcia z okolic PZ-39 i PZ-40a.


*
And now a riddle. Guess what this is?*



JacYk said:


> Na km 16+906.59, czyli przy WD-14. Do węzła "Gryfino", jest jakieś 7km.
> 
> Teraz zagadka z odc.I.
> Do czego będzie służyć, "to" co powstanie nad jezdniami S3?
> Na zdjęciach zobaczycie dwa miejsca, gdzie będą zamontowane te konstrukcje. Trzecia będzie kawałek dalej, po lewej stronie za bramownicą, bliżej węzła "Klucz"'.
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> Wciąż to samo miejsce, tylko widok z pasa rozdziału w kierunku Gorzowa.
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> *Miejsce nr 2.*
> Kilometraż jak widać, ujęcie w kierunku Gorzowa.
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> *cdn...*





JacYk said:


> *CD.*


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## Blaskovitz

Rest of photos:



JacYk said:


> Tak, to byłem ja. Rozumiem, że tam wczoraj pracowałeś?
> 
> *Fotki z dn.15.09.2010r.*
> 
> *Rejon WD-38, PZ-39, PZ-40a i WE-40.*
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> Widok z WD-38 w kierunku Szczecina. W dali WD-37.
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> Zbliżenia w stronę WD-37, daleko w tle WD-36.
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> Teraz widok z WD-38 w kierunku Gorzowa.
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> Seria zbliżeń w stronę PZ-39.
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> *cdn...*





JacYk said:


> *CD.*
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> Na tym zbliżeniu, można dostrzec trzy obiekty. W kolejności PZ-39, PZ-40a i WE-40.
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> Schodzimy na ziemię. Kierunek Gorzów.
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JacYk said:


> *CD.*
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> Bliżej PZ-39, kierunek bez zmian.
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> Ostatnie prace, przy barierach energochłonnych na PZ-39.
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> Obrót do tyłu i widok z pasa rozdziału w kierunku Szczecina.
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> *cdn...*





JacYk said:


> *CD.*
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> Zbliżenia w stronę WD-38.
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> Ruszamy dalej na południe. PZ-39, nitka prawa, kierunek Gorzów.
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> Z drugiej strony PZ-39. Ujęcie w kierunku Szczecina.
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> *cdn...*


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## ChrisZwolle

It looks like it can open any day now...

Those big concrete blocks, are those for overhead portals?


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## E2rdEm

ChrisZwolle said:


> Those big concrete blocks, are those for overhead portals?


Well... kinda,,,
They will support some structure to lead bats flying over the S3. :nuts: so the bats won't smash onto the trucks, but safely pass to the other side...


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## gramercy

ud think if they can detect a moth a truck wouldn be much of a problem


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## E2rdEm

But the truck is a moving target. It disrupts the bats detection. This structure is supposed to provide stable point of direction for them. I don't know the details.


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## Blaskovitz

*DK52 in Bielsko Biała by Marek Kocjan http://www.kocjan.pl/index.php*

























































tombou said:


> widok na wiadukt od strony Zywca
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> na wiadukcie -niektórzy juz sie niecierpliwią...
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> Wyzwolenia w prawo i do góry
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> odwrót w tył w kierunku Zywca
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> nastepne skrzyzowanie z Czerwoną,droga tutaj nawet 1x4,niestety z powodu 'awarii' nasypu nad Daszynskiego,jazda na wprost niemozliwa,jadąc na Katowice czy Cieszyn trzeba skrecic w lewo na Czerwoną niestety w kiepskim stanie
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> jeszcze spojrzenie na wiadukt w kierunku Zywca
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> zjeżdzamy niżej i bezpośrednio z wiaduktu zjazd na Piekarską,przyjemnie szeroko,wygląda na to można jechać prosto i wrócić na Lwowską
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> jakosc wieczorna i komórkowa...





marek_kocjan said:


> Nowe zdjęcia - www.kocjan.pl/thumbnails-65.html
> 
> Wiadukt na Wyzwolenia wieczorem:
> 
> 
> [URL="http://www.kocjan.pl/displayimage-6302.html"]
> 
> *GODZINA 21:00 - OTWARCIE WIADUKTU DO RUCHU*
> 
> [URL="http://www.kocjan.pl/displayimage-6300.html"]





















*S8 in Warszawa (Konotopa - Powązkowska)*



witeq said:


> *Fotki z odcinka Konotopa - WD7 Szeligowska [18.09.2010]*





witeq said:


> *C.D.*
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> *Koniec*


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## ChrisZwolle

What did they change on DK52 in Bielsko-Biala? And how does this include the S69 expressway?


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## Blaskovitz

*S6 Słupsk bypass almost ready*



alchemik said:


> ^^Znaku D7 (12.09) jeszcze nie było, ale poza tymczasowym oznakowaniem na węźle Redzikowo, pionowego oznakowania na węzłach jeszcze nie ma, podobnie jak na odcinku most- początek obwodnicy, oznakowanie poziome niemal ukończone, od mostu po Redzikowo, ścieralna praktycznie na całej długości ( stan na zeszłą niedzielę)
> 
> Kilka zdjęć na potwierdzenie
> 
> Redzikowo, widok od strony Gdańska, obecnie na widoczną jezdnie północną przerzucony został ruch z południowej łącznicy.
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> Rondo pn, obecnie, dopuszczone do ruchu.
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> Odcinek jedno-jezdniowy





alchemik said:


> Rejon węzła Słupsk-Wschód, Głobino, widok w stronę Redzikowa
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> Rejon PZ2
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> W kolejności WD2, MD1,PG1, WN4,WN6
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> Odcinek WD2-MD1





alchemik said:


> Widok z obwodnicy
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> WN1 Słupsk-Zachód, Reblinko
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> Początkowy odcinek obwodnicy
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> Jeśli znajdę trochę czasu, to w najbliższą niedzielę postaram się wrzucić bardziej szczegółowa fotorelację.


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## DammianBB

ChrisZwolle said:


> What did they change on DK52 in Bielsko-Biala? And how does this include the S69 expressway?


Chris ,

they didn't change the numbers. New DK52 is the part of the old one in the middle of the city and has only 1,38 km long. S1/S69 are U/C in another place.


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## ChrisZwolle

Strange nobody reported it...

The building permits have been issued for two sections of A2 in Lodzkie Voivodship, totaling 46 kilometers. This will wrap up the remaining unbuilt section in Lodzkie. 

Two building permits have yet to be issued between Lodz and Warszawa. The ETA of those is within 1 or 2 weeks, so the entire corridor should be under construction by mid-october.


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## ChrisZwolle

mały pytanie: is there already an opening date for S8 Konotopa - Powązkowska?


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> mały pytanie: is there already an opening date for S8 Konotopa - Powązkowska?


Official opening date didn't change and it's 15-12-2010. My personal opinion is that they will not make it.


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## and802

^^ my personal opinion is they even they will not make in on time it will not chnage anything. this road goes to nowhere, so it will not bring any relief for habitants of North-West Warsaw.


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## Chris80678

I disagree. The S8 incorporates an interchange with the DK92 to Poznań so drivers will use it for faster access to DK92 when travelling north from Gdańsk (E77) and east from Białystok (E67). 
Having said that I do agree that the S8 will not relieve all of the congestion in central Warsaw as drivers heading for Kraków or Wrocław will still have to travel through central Warsaw as the fast S2 southern ring road will not be connected to the S8 by the end of this year. Unless drivers come off the expressway at the junction with route 580 and cut through Warsaw's north western suburbs to reach the city centre then the expressway traffic will bypass western Warsaw's suburbs. Nevertheless, the S8 expressway won't cost anything to use so why wouldn't drivers use it for a faster link to Poznań (DK92, DK14, A2)? Lets just see how many drivers use the S8 when it opens in December 2010 before we condemn the S8 as a useless road (which I agree does lead to nowhere for those drivers heading south). 
We will just have to be patient to see the S8 be connected with the A2 motorway to Poznań and with the S2 southern Warsaw ring road. At least Warsaw will have some form of a proper outer ring road at last so lets be grateful for that and hard work is being made to get the S2 from Konotopa to the airport built by 2012.


----------



## Chris80678

Jakub Warszauer said:


> Official opening date didn't change and it's 15-12-2010. My personal opinion is that they will not make it.


Why do you think they will not make the official opening date of 15-12-2010?


----------



## and802

Chris80678 said:


> ... Having said that I do agree that the S8 will not relieve all of the congestion in central Warsaw as drivers heading for Kraków or Wrocław will still have to travel through central Warsaw as the fast S2 southern ring road will not be connected to the S8 by the end of this year. Unless drivers come off the expressway at the junction with route 580 and cut through Warsaw's north western suburbs to reach the city centre then the expressway traffic will bypass western Warsaw's suburbs. Nevertheless, the S8 expressway won't cost anything to use so why wouldn't drivers use it for a faster link to Poznań (DK92, DK14, A2)? Lets just see how many drivers use the S8 when it opens in December 2010 before we condemn the S8 as a useless road (which I agree does lead to nowhere for those drivers heading south).
> We will just have to be patient to see the S8 be connected with the A2 motorway to Poznań and with the S2 southern Warsaw ring road. At least Warsaw will have some form of a proper outer ring road at last so lets be grateful for that and hard work is being made to get the S2 from Konotopa to the airport built by 2012.


well, definately I expressed my feelings in the wrong way. I am very happy we get another piece of modern infrastructure in Warsaw, but as you wrote before A2 reaches Warsaw, we will not be able to use it as it was originally designed.


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

Chris80678 said:


> Why do you think they will not make the official opening date of 15-12-2010?


1. Look at the photos in project's thread. For me they are far from finishing two junctions.

2. The whole "opening" operation usually takes weeks. If they wanted to open the route in December they need to finish everything in November.


----------



## Chris80678

Jakub Warszauer said:


> 1. Look at the photos in project's thread. For me they are far from finishing two junctions.
> 
> 2. The whole "opening" operation usually takes weeks. If they wanted to open the route in December they need to finish everything in November.


Don't panic, after all there is still another month left to get everything on the S8 finished - October and perhaps half of November. Which are the two junctions which for you are far from complete - DK580 and Prymasa?


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

Chris80678 said:


> Don't panic, after all there is still another month left to get everything on the S8 finished - October and perhaps half of November. Which are the two junctions which for you are far from complete - DK580 and Prymasa?


Warszawska/Lazurowa & Prymasa.


----------



## Chris80678

From the project photos all I can see missing from the Warszawska/Lazurowa and Prymasa junctions are concrete, side wall panels, lane markings and 
road signs. At both junctions the flyovers are done. I can't see it taking more than a month to lay the concrete, panel the side walls, paint line markings and erect the relevant junction road signs. I still believe that the opening date of 15.12.2010 can be achieved so we shall see who is right


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It is known that freezing temperatures can prevent asphalt from being poured. I'm not sure how this works out with concrete, as the last concrete motorway in the Netherlands was completed 20 years ago, so there is almost no expertise on concrete motorways in the Netherlands. But I assume working pace will be lower from ~November - ~March.


----------



## bogdymol

^^ AFAIK concrete can be poured starting from +5 degrees.


----------



## Blaskovitz

Nice film about S8 i Warsaw by TVN Warszawa, but all in Polish.

http://www.tvnwarszawa.pl/0,1675004,wiadomosc.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Blaskovitz said:


> but all in Polish.


That's the fun for me, trying to understand words and sentences


----------



## kamilbuk

Begrudge Chris, quite interesting stuff.


----------



## mapman:cz

ChrisZwolle said:


> That's the fun for me, trying to understand words and sentences


Yeah, I agree  té-fau-en warszawa  Pytanie wiec jak to mozliwe ze samochody sie tutaj nie potopia? Opowiedzia sa te rury )) How simple


----------



## Blaskovitz

mapman:cz said:


> Yeah, I agree  té-fau-en warszawa  Pytanie wiec jak to mozliwe ze samochody sie tutaj nie potopia? Opowiedzia sa te rury )) How simple


Simple answer for simple people.  This is TV station for normal, typical inhabitants who don't know nothing about roads etc.


----------



## PLH

I must admit it's a really well done reportage without any moaning and content-related mistakes.


----------



## mapman:cz

Yes, I agree, it is easy to understand even for me, I just don't believe that A2 will be ready for EURO 2012 all the way from Wawa to Łódż...


----------



## Warsawbynight

mapman:cz said:


> Yes, I agree, it is easy to understand even for me, I just don't believe that A2 will be ready for EURO 2012 all the way from Wawa to Łódż...


It must be ready. Maybe some interchanges will be still closed, maybe there will be no nearby infrastructure, but the motorway will be ready


----------



## seem

Chris can you speak any Polish?

I am Western Slavic so it`s not so hard to understand (even if I am speaking with Polish people every day) but this guy is talking so fast.. :nuts: so I have to listen carefuly



> Pytanie wiec jak to mozliwe ze samochody sie tutaj nie potopia? Opowiedzia sa te rury


Really? It`s totally different on other motorways and roads. 

and for me as a Slovak there is really funny moment - "Berlina, Pariza, Madrida..zachodu Europy"


----------



## Fargo Wolf

ChrisZwolle said:


> It is known that freezing temperatures can prevent asphalt from being poured. I'm not sure how this works out with concrete, as the last concrete motorway in the Netherlands was completed 20 years ago, so there is almost no expertise on concrete motorways in the Netherlands. But I assume working pace will be lower from ~November - ~March.


Asphalt paving (hot mix) is generally done at temperatures above 15C (City of Kamloops guidelines). Generally, the hotter the day, the better. Cold weather asphalt (cold mix) is temporary. It's generally used to fill a pothole temporarily, until the weather warms enough for hot mix to be used.

Concrete isn't as dependent on temperature. the ingredients used, change with the temperature, thus allowing it to be poured at well below freezing. Even at -35C. The only thing affected, is the crews working. For safety, they may not be permitted to work during extreme cold spells/high wind chill factors.


----------



## geogregor

Fargo Wolf said:


> Asphalt paving (hot mix) is generally done at temperatures above 15C (City of Kamloops guidelines)


Maybe it depends from asphalt mix? I'm sure I've seen asphalt paving done in lower temperatures on some polish constructions.


----------



## PLH

Whether given asphalt is 'cold' or 'hot' does not depend on the air temperature it is being paved at, but how it is made. 

15 degrees plus are generally said to be needed for concrete not asphalt.


----------



## mr.cool

Hi, does anyone know when the S17 expressway in and around lublin is due to start construction? And when will it open for traffic? Thanks.


----------



## earth intruder

mr.cool said:


> Hi, does anyone know when the S17 expressway in and around lublin is due to start construction? And when will it open for traffic? Thanks.


Construction starts about next month and it's said to be opened in 2012 I think.


----------



## Fargo Wolf

PLH said:


> Whether given asphalt is 'cold' or 'hot' does not depend on the air temperature it is being paved at, but how it is made.
> 
> 15 degrees plus are generally said to be needed for concrete not asphalt.


Actually it does. Unless you WANT to be the one with a jackhammer, breaking apart a substantial mass in the back of a dump truck (Up to 15 tonnes of it)...

Concrete isn't as finicky, since a special "cold weather" mixture is used, that allows less water to be used. A good portion of Edmonton, Alberta, Canada's SW ring road was paved with concrete over the winter, in temps well below -25C on average.

Poland isn't Canada, so I'm not at all familiar with the guidelines for paving there. I know that the country has a similar climate, which is why I based my previous post on local guidelines used here.

But yeah... Hot mix asphalt is used during the summer months, Cold mix is for temporary patches, and is, at least here... WATER SOLUBLE... :gaah: :wallbash: :doh:


----------



## ufonut

Kapsch won a tender for building and managing (for 8 years) Eletronic Toll Collection system in Poland. Cost 4.9 billion ZL (around 1.6 billion $). It will be delivered by July 2011.

Contract will be signed within a month.


----------



## Blaskovitz

Newest map


----------



## Sagaris

Fargo Wolf said:


> Poland isn't Canada, so I'm not at all familiar with the guidelines for paving there. I know that the country has a similar climate, which is why I based my previous post on local guidelines used here.


Err, Ive lived pretty much my whole life split between Poznan and Winnipeg. The climate is certainly not similar. And Canada is such a large country, its hard to make a blanket statement about climate for it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ufonut said:


> Kapsch won a tender for building and managing (for 8 years) Eletronic Toll Collection system in Poland. Cost 4.9 billion ZL (around 1.6 billion $). It will be delivered by July 2011.
> 
> Contract will be signed within a month.



Only for trucks though. (vehicles >3.5 tonnes). It replaces the toll card.


----------



## PLH

Yes, but I've read other drivers can join too.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I'm sure many Polish drivers are eager to pay tolls if they don't have to


----------



## delfin_pl

1272 km of motorways and expressways are now u/c in Poland :cheers:


----------



## PLH

^^Which is 90 more than before like two weeks or so.



ChrisZwolle said:


> I'm sure many Polish drivers are eager to pay tolls if they don't have to


By the time this system is introduced, A4 Gliwice - Wrocław will be tolled, so drives will be able to choose which system they prefer, on condition this piece of news is true because it was written just in some newspaper.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

PLH said:


> ^^Which is 90 more than before like two weeks or so.


Which sections started construction? S7 near Kielce, A1 to the Czech border, and A2 Lodz - Warszawa?


----------



## PLH

Plus ca. 60 km of A4 near UA border, making the 22 km long section right at the border the only one that is not U/C. Still, it will be in a month or two.


----------



## gramercy

great progress


----------



## PLH

By the end of next week, the whole A2 between Łódź and Warsaw will be finally U/C


----------



## Maks33

PLH said:


> By the end of next week, the whole A2 between Łódź and Warsaw will be finally U/C


It's good!  I saw photos of abandoned bridges and viaducts of "Olimpijka" in the moment of their destruction. "Olimpijka" in Poland was a symbol of economic fault of socialism.


----------



## msz2

S-7 between Skarzysko and Kielce by sprezynaKRK from Polish subforum:



sprenzynaKRK said:


> Filmik z 03.10.2010.


----------



## bebe.2006

A1 Gliwice-Ostrava.

Section:

-A1 Bełk - Świerklany ... 14,1 km.....08/2008 - 11/2010 ..... STRABAG / HEILIT+WOERNER www.belk-swierklany.pl



txk_pl said:


> Between Stanowice and Szczejkowice:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In background road Knurów-Żory:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (...)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Looks awesome, when is the exact opening date? Will the A1 feature 2x3 lanes all the way to the Czech border?


----------



## rakcancer

toonczyk said:


> According to GDDKiA representative who used to visit our polish board (unfortunately he doesn't anymore), in order to qualify for 2x2, a road needs a prognosed traffic volume of around 50.000, though I have no idea what is the time frame of such a prognosis. Construction of 1x2 expressway is considered economically viable with prognosed traffic of 17.000, 2x3 - 70.000.


so in that case there would be no point for building motorways in Poland except ringroads of big cities. 50K/day is very high volume.


----------



## toonczyk

50k/day obviously, as I wrote, relates to a prognosis of traffic volume, not the current volume. It wasn't very clear the way he formulated it, but he was sure about the numbers.

Also, results of the newest traffic measurements (GPR2010) are not available yet, but based on the 2005 results, we should have reached 50k on the main corridors by now.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

S3 Pyrzyce - Mysliborz:



> prawdopodobny termin otwarcia: 10-15 października 2010 r


Any more info about the opening? It is October 13th now (well, in 17 minutes)


----------



## toonczyk

Newest info: 27.10.


----------



## jtybinka

ChrisZwolle said:


> I doubt that if you show someone a picture of a road, and they have to guess if the lanes are 3.5 or 3.75 m wide, they wouldn't know. Something that is maybe even more important is the general alignment, number of exits and the width of the inside and outside shoulders.


I drive A4 (Legnica-Krapkowice) and S1 (Bielsko-Cieszyn) very often and I must say that the difference is very big. On A4 I drive 140 km/h sometimes 150 km/h and it`s very safe. On S1 I drive 120 km/h , faster is risky becasue curves are not so mild like on A4, on S1 when you have a curve you feel you need to slow down , on A4 you completely don`t care about curves you can have the same speed on stright sections and on curves, on S1 you drive 130 km/h you see the curve and you feel you need to slow down 
Even on A4 section Legnica - Wroclaw that doesn`t have emergency line I drive faster then on S1 

............another case is that if you compare A road and S road , on A road you drive faster but you will not save much time compared to slower driving on S road , on the section Legnica - Krapkowice I tested the speed 140-150
and 120-130 and the difference was 15 minutes what is nothing for such a long section


----------



## PLH

From today on, there are more A/S 2x2 roads U/C than existing. 1328 vs. 1325 km.

Whole A2 to Warsaw U/C


----------



## Carte

*Source: http://www.autostrada-a2.pl/*s

*A2 (Świecko- Nowy Tomyśl):*


----------



## bebe.2006

^^ On the last one Frankfurt a.d. Oder?


----------



## RipleyLV

Awesome photos!



bebe.2006 said:


> ^^ On the last one Frankfurt a.d. Oder?


Yep.


----------



## bleetz

Good stuff, good stuff.


----------



## DammianBB

excellent , go A2


----------



## geogregor

It might be one of the best motorways in Poland and the most boring one to drive. Straight, mostly through the forests. 

Amazing pictures nonetheless.


----------



## Grisent

Amazing pictures, and good to see A2 being completed.



Carte said:


>


Are these ecoducts, by any chance?


----------



## PLH

Yes. If I'm not wrong, the second one is with 150 m the longest in Poland.


----------



## bebe.2006

Warsaw S8. Waiting for cars:



Pedroni said:


>





Pedroni said:


>





Pedroni said:


>


----------



## SeanT

congratulations, very good looking roads:cheers:


----------



## Blaskovitz

Newest!


----------



## god

PLH said:


> Yes. If I'm not wrong, the second one is with 150 m the longest in Poland.


Will it be lightened inside like a tunnel?


----------



## PLH

Yes. It is likely it will also be marked as such, which for me is stupidity.


----------



## treichard

Blaskovitz said:


> Newest!
> 
> [Big poland map here]


What's new and open this year among the A and S routes?

And which sections are expected to open by the end of the year?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Two videos of the new S3 by DSzumaher.


----------



## Le Clerk

ajuc said:


> About Via Carpatia:
> http://biznes.onet.pl/ministrowie-infrastruktury-o-drodze-via-carpatia,18496,3741385,1,news-detal (in Polish)
> 
> In the article they say, that in Poland it would be going on part of the express road S19: Budzisko - Suwałki - Białystok - Lublin - Rzeszów - Barwinek.
> 
> Cezary Grabarczyk, head of the Ministry of Infrastructure said, that "Jeśli uda się włączyć drogę w system korytarzy paneuropejskich, to sądzę, że szlak powinien być gotowy do zakończenie kolejnej perspektywy budżetowej UE czyli do 2020 r." - "If we will succed with making this road part of the paneuropean transportation corridors, I think it will be all ready by 2020".
> 
> But he's a politician, so I won't believe a word he says.



I think there are way too many EU countries involved so this project may have a good chance to get into TEN-T. Let's be optimistic. :cheers:


----------



## DSzumaher

Even videos towards south:










BTW, I'm sorry for bumping movies.


----------



## DammianBB

quite empty road compared to A4 ?


----------



## CNGL

No, it isn't opened yet.

Scrap me, it was opened YESTERDAY!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

DammianBB said:


> quite empty road compared to A4 ?


No surprise, the S3 isn't even signed from 2 km away on DK3, and it generally takes 3 - 6 months for new roads to appear on GPS systems and 6 months - 1 year to appear on maps. If you don't happen to know it's opened, you don't take this route (at least from the south). 

If you look at 0:15 at the first video I posted from DSzumaher, you can see S3 is not signed. In other words, you need to know it's there in order to use it.


----------



## Uppsala

I think the most important thing now for the polish motorway network is to finnish the A2 from German border to Nowy Tomyśl.


----------



## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> No surprise, the S3 isn't even signed from 2 km away on DK3


Or is it?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It wasn't in DSzumahers video


----------



## PLH

OK then  Good to see this sign wasn't replaced but only S3 added to it, as the old road will get a three digit number soon.


----------



## Uppsala

PLH said:


> Or is it?


So from there its at least dual carriage way all the way to German border?


----------



## PLH

You mean the one signed with PL D? Then no. See this map. Find "węzeł MYŚLIBÓRZ" and then road 26 leading to German border. It's a simple 1x2 road. 

The only way to get from this place to Germany using a dual carriageway is to go all the way down to Szczecin and then via A6.


S3 is connected with road 26 and then with old 3, hence the ambiguity:


----------



## LMB

ChrisZwolle said:


> It wasn't in DSzumahers video


The speed of changes on Eastern Europe


----------



## ChrisZwolle

LMB said:


> The speed of changes on Eastern Europe


Yes, I think this achievement should go in the list of the tearing down of the berlin wall and iron curtain category events. :lol:

1989: destruction of the Berlin wall
1990: German reunification
2004: accession of Poland to EU
2010: local signage changed in Renice (pop. 360)


----------



## Chris80678

PLH said:


> OK then  Good to see this sign wasn't replaced but only S3 added to it, as the old road will get a three digit number soon.


Wonder what three digit number they will come up with the existing (or now old) E65 north of Myślibórz?
I look forward to hearing what this number will be and seeing it eventually appear on the website www.zumi.pl. This three digit number is needed as having two E65 would be too confusing! I like the excellent quality of the new S3 expressway - it is a top quality new road for Poland and for Europe as a whole.


----------



## Uppsala

PLH said:


> You mean the one signed with PL D? Then no. See this map. Find "węzeł MYŚLIBÓRZ" and then road 26 leading to German border. It's a simple 1x2 road.
> 
> The only way to get from this place to Germany using a dual carriageway is to go all the way down to Szczecin and then via A6.
> 
> 
> S3 is connected with road 26 and then with old 3, hence the ambiguity:


Ok, but that means it's possible to go from this place to Berlin only on dual carriageway. :happy:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Uppsala said:


> Ok, but that means it's possible to go from this place to Berlin only on dual carriageway. :happy:


Yes, but you need to go north 55 kilometers first, and then drive back another 120 km to Berlin via A11. It's not a logical route.


----------



## Uppsala

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yes, but you need to go north 55 kilometers first, and then drive back another 120 km to Berlin via A11. It's not a logical route.


No, but here we are motorway fans, and sometimes we are not so logical.  :happy:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Uppsala said:


> No, but here we are motorway fans, and sometimes we are not so logical.  :happy:


Touché!


----------



## Rusonaldo

S3


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I did a small test;

20 vehicles in 1 minute = 1.200 vehicles per hour * 12 hours = 14.400 vehicles, given that 80% of the AADT drives between 7 am and 7 pm, this gives an AADT of 18.000 vehicles per day.

18.000 AADT sounds very plausible for a road like this that just opened.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

By the way, that guy at 1:25 was driving very fast, in 2 seconds he covered 11 road markings. If this is a 9-3 road marking (9m asphalt, 3 m marking), he traveled 138 m in 2 seconds, or 66 m/s or 237 km/h!


----------



## PLH

Sadly, this is possible.


----------



## Biesiada

ChrisZwolle said:


> I did a small test;
> 
> 20 vehicles in 1 minute = 1.200 vehicles per hour * 12 hours = 14.400 vehicles, given that 80% of the AADT drives between 7 am and 7 pm, this gives an AADT of 18.000 vehicles per day.
> 
> 18.000 AADT sounds very plausible for a road like this that just opened.


the video looks like it was made in rush hours around 7-8 am . the traffic increases enormously throughout the country at that time. can the author confirm this ? if it's true around 10.000 AADT is possible


----------



## Sponsor

ChrisZwolle said:


> By the way, that guy at 1:25 was driving very fast, in 2 seconds he covered 11 road markings. *If this is a 9-3 road marking (9m asphalt, 3 m marking)*, he traveled 138 m in 2 seconds, or 66 m/s or 237 km/h!


Actually it's 8 - 4 meters so that gives 124 m [(11 x 4m) + (10 x 8m)]. Anyway it still more than 200 kph, sadly...


----------



## mcarling

Blaskovitz said:


> http://ssc-mapa.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/nowa-mapa.png


This map does not show the active construction works on the S8/E67 bypassing Bialystok along the northern edge of the city. The 6.4 kilometer bypass road connecting the road to Warsaw with the road to Augustow was a 2-lane single carriageway. It is being converted to a 4-lane dual carriageway. I drove through a few weeks ago and construction was well along. It appears that the works might be completed in late 2011. I'm sorry I didn't take any photographs.


----------



## PLH

This is because this road is not an expressway, althought it might look like one.


----------



## mcarling

PLH said:


> This is because this road is not an expressway, althought it might look like one.


Thanks. It looked like it would be an expressway after the reconstruction works are completed. What is the classification of a 4-lane dual carriageway that falls short of being classified as an expressway?


----------



## PLH

_Main road of accelerated traffic_,100 km/h limit if you want it literally, I can't find any suitable equivalent of this in English.

http://translate.google.pl/translat...u=http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droga_klasy_GP


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That is what other countries would call an expressway


----------



## seem

Guys, what do you think how many km do you need to build?


----------



## mcarling

PLH said:


> _Main road of accelerated traffic_,100 km/h limit if you want it literally, I can't find any suitable equivalent of this in English.
> 
> http://translate.google.pl/translat...u=http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droga_klasy_GP


If I understand correctly, the salient difference from a driver's perspective between a "main road of accelerated traffic" and an "expressway" is 100km/h versus 110km/h speed limit. Is that right? Both are signal-free dual carriageways with (at least) two lanes in each direction, right?


----------



## toonczyk

mcarling said:


> If I understand correctly, the salient difference from a driver's perspective between a "main road of accelerated traffic" and an "expressway" is 100km/h versus 110km/h speed limit. Is that right? Both are signal-free dual carriageways with (at least) two lanes in each direction, right?


No, GP roads are not always signal-free, neither are they always dual carriageways.


----------



## Blaskovitz

^^ 6 000 km ? Before 1939 we needed ~3 000km. 

S3 photos by *Rusonaldo*



Rusonaldo said:


> Zapraszam na podróż po S3. Z niektórymi podczas otwarcia się spotkałem z innymi (*DSzumaher*) nie udało pogadać chociaż dzieliło nas jakieś 10 m. Na początek trochę fotek. Filmy będą jutro bo mają dość sporo mb i całą noc będzie się wgrywało. Droga miód malina. Czekam z niecierpliwością na 3 odcinek i na MOPy.
> 
> 1 – S3 z góry





Rusonaldo said:


> 3 – Jazda po S3 z Węzła Myślibórz do węzła Klucz (Szczecin)
> 
> a)





Rusonaldo said:


> b)





Rusonaldo said:


> c)


----------



## mcarling

toonczyk said:


> No, GP roads are not always signal-free, neither are they always dual carriageways.


Hmmm. So, for the GP roads that are signal-free dual carriageways, why are they not classified as expressways?


----------



## toonczyk

mcarling said:


> Hmmm. So, for the GP roads that are signal-free dual carriageways, why are they not classified as expressways?


They don't meet some of the technical requirements, which are quite restrictive. It may be anything - curve radius, distance between junctions, a steep hill...
Sometimes building a road that meets all the requirements of an expressway means as much as 150% - 170% the cost of a GP road.


----------



## Blaskovitz

Before opening, by JacYk 



JacYk said:


> *Fotki z dn.22.10.2010r.*
> 
> *Otwarcie odc.II*
> 
> Swoją fotorelację, zacznę od węzła "Pyrzyce".
> 
> Było kilkanaście minut przed godz.12.00. Dojazd do węzła "Pyrzyce" od strony Szczecina.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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JacYk said:


> *CD.*
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> Widok, po minięciu WD-21 w kierunku Szczecina.
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> Teraz kierunek Gorzów.
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> Zbliżenia na miejsce w którym, odbyła się uroczystość otwarcia odc.II.
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JacYk said:


> *CD.*
> 
> Przenosimy się w Rejon WD-22. Oczywiście relacja dla kierunku Gorzów, też była jeszcze zamknięta. W prawo, kierunek Szczecin.
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> Zbliżenie na miejsce uroczystości. W tle, WD-23.
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> Teraz widok z WD-22 w kierunku Szczecina i WD-21.
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> Zbliżenia.
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JacYk said:


> *CD.*
> 
> Oczywiście było wielu niecierpliwych, którzy za wszelką cenę i z upartością maniaka chcieli już przejechać po odc.II. Panowie od kierowania ruchem, musieli się wykazać dużą cierpliwością i stanowczością (wiele razy).
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> Tylko goście zaproszeni na uroczystość otwarcia, byli przepuszczani.
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> "Udekorowany", banerami WD-22. Gorzów na prawo.
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JacYk said:


> *CD.*
> 
> Widok z WD-22 w kierunku Gorzowa. Po lewej, zabudowania OU "Pyrzyce".
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> Zbliżenia w kierunku Gorzowa tj. na miejsce uroczystości otwarcia. W tle, WD-23.
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> Dla gości jadących od strony Szczecina, „nawrotka” była przygotowana na wysokości WD-24, jego fragment widoczny jest daleko w tle, po lewej stronie zdjęcia.
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> Przesunięcie w lewo, kierunek ujęcia bez zmian.
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JacYk said:


> *CD.*
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> Widok z placu OU "Pyrzyce" na miejsce uroczystości. Szczecin na prawo.
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> Teraz widok z drugiej strony S3. Szczecin na lewo.
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JacYk said:


> *CD.*
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> Zbliżenie na miejsce uroczystości.
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> Widok z WD-23 w kierunku Pyrzyc. Szczecin na lewo.
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> Kontra w lewo i widok w kierunku Szczecina.
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JacYk said:


> *CD.*
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> Przesunięcie na środek WD-23 i widok w kierunku Szczecina.
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> Widok z WD-23 w kierunku Gorzowa.
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JacYk said:


> *CD.*
> 
> Zbliżenie w stronę granicy odc.I i II. (widać inny odcień nawierzchni, za końcem bariery po prawej stronie).
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> Jedziemy na uroczystość - łącznica DW122>>>Szczecin/Gorzów Wlkp.
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JacYk said:


> *CD.*
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> Nitka w kierunku Gorzowa, wjeżdżamy na WD-22.
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> ...i już jesteśmy na S3 przed WD-22 w kierunku Gorzowa.
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JacYk said:


> *CD.*
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 I know.. it's to many photos on one post and site. Sorry :cheers:

rest of photos: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=496160&page=381


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## mcarling

toonczyk said:


> They don't meet some of the technical requirements, which are quite restrictive. It may be anything - curve radius, distance between junctions, a steep hill...
> Sometimes building a road that meets all the requirements of an expressway means as much as 150% - 170% the cost of a GP road.


Ok. So, there are strict requirements for a dual carriageway to be classified for 110km/h and those that fall short are classified for 100km/h. Those that meet even stricter requirements are classified (motorways) for 130km/h. Is that right?


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## toonczyk

mcarling said:


> Ok. So, there are strict requirements for a dual carriageway to be classified for 110km/h and those that fall short are classified for 100km/h. Those that meet even stricter requirements are classified (motorways) for 130km/h. Is that right?


That is correct. Personally I think it is high time we start thinking about rising speed limits to 130km/h on expressways and 160km/h on motorways (or even getting rid of *default *speed limits at all). But that's probably never going to happen the way things are, climate change and all.


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## mcarling

toonczyk said:


> That is correct. Personally I think it is high time we start thinking about rising speed limits to 130km/h on expressways and 160km/h on motorways (or even getting rid of *default *speed limits at all).


I agree with you 100%!

Remember, the only speed law is 300,000km/second. Everything else is just a recommendation. ;-)


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## Mateusz

Of course there are some excecptions to these rules as always, oh life...


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## Jakub Warszauer

http://www.siskom.waw.pl/drogownictwo.htm


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## LMB

toonczyk said:


> That is correct. Personally I think it is high time we start thinking about rising speed limits to 130km/h on expressways and 160km/h on motorways (or even getting rid of *default *speed limits at all). But that's probably never going to happen the way things are, climate change and all.


Not yet - a few posts above yours there is a video of somebody driving over 200kph.


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## DammianBB

mcarling said:


> The price is 1 euro per 16km. In my opinion, it's very reasonable. Someone has to pay for the roads. Why not those who use them?
> 
> Polish "A" leads mainly through fields and forests, so just try to understand that the toll are just too high compared to their standard and construction costs. The reasons are bad signed contracts and the budget gap, but that's a different case and do not want to write about it.
> The rest of my opinion have already expressed "Chris" and "toonczyk" and I agree with them 100%.


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## ChrisZwolle

mcarling said:


> If the motorway is not of sufficient value to its users to make the cost of construction worth paying for, then the motorway should not have been built.


Could we apply this to rail projects as well? No government funding, just the users? Oh wait, we won't have much rail then... :lol:


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## ChrisZwolle

S6 Słupsk bypass opened today  official opening is Friday.


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## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> Could we apply this to rail projects as well? No government funding, just the users? Oh wait, we won't have much rail then.


Getting people out of private cars and onto trains, especially in urban settings, is a public policy priority. Getting cars off the expressways and onto motorways is not a public policy priority.


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## toonczyk

mcarling said:


> Getting cars off the expressways and onto motorways is not a public policy priority.


But getting cars off the lower standard, dangerous roads and onto safe motorways/expressways is.
Expressways in Poland are not built as an alternative to motorway network. There is (or will be) only one high standard road in each corridor, sometimes it is an expressway, sometimes a motorway. Free roads serving as alternative routes to motorways look like this (DK92, free alternative to A2):










Do you really think it's not a public policy priority to get interregional or international traffic off roads like that and onto motorways?


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## E2rdEm

ChrisZwolle said:


> Could we apply this to rail projects as well? No government funding, just the users? Oh wait, we won't have much rail then... :lol:


Huh?
Don't know about the Netherlands, but in Poland our rail authority had to raise charges on using the rails, just to get the funds needed to match those offered by European Union. Talking about government funding the rail investments? => :hilarious


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## ChrisZwolle

So the Polish government and European union are spending € 0 per year on the rail infrastructure? Everything is funded by the rail company who gets their revenue from ticket fees only?

There is no such thing as profitable rail transport (farebox recovery ratio is generally between 30 and 50%), yet rail advocates scream bloody murder if there is an alleged subsidizing of road transport.


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## mcarling

toonczyk said:


> But getting cars off the lower standard, dangerous roads and onto safe motorways/expressways is.
> 
> ...
> 
> Do you really think it's not a public policy priority to get interregional or international traffic off roads like that and onto motorways?


Sure but, if motorways are too expensive, then build expressways, which are less expensive. I'm willing to pay for motorways. Are you?




ChrisZwolle said:


> So the Polish government and European union are spending € 0 per year on the rail infrastructure? Everything is funded by the rail company who gets their revenue from ticket fees only?


*E2rdEm* seems to be referring to matching funds.


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## E2rdEm

ChrisZwolle said:


> So the Polish government and European union are spending € 0 per year on the rail infrastructure? Everything is funded by the rail company who gets their revenue from ticket fees only?


No, it's funded by rail company who gets their revenue from rail companies who sell tickets (or move goods over rails). I'm pretty sure such a company exists in Netherlands too - it's a european regulation.

So the first company needed to raise their revenue. All of it was paid by the rail operators (companies from the second category). The passenger operators have put this raise partly into higher ticket prices, partly they got higher subsidies from local governments. But the freight rail operators don't get any subsidies - they had to pay the full price. Another way of pushing trucks onto the roads... 

EDIT: and yeah, I was referring to matching funds, so only our government is to blame. EU is willing to pay some public money for rail infrastructure in Poland. Some 20% of that what is assigned to road investments...



ChrisZwolle said:


> There is no such thing as profitable rail transport (farebox recovery ratio is generally between 30 and 50%), yet rail advocates scream bloody murder if there is an alleged subsidizing of road transport.


Yeah, sure. If the road freight operators had to pay the full price of the infrastructure they're using, they would go bankrupt in a day. Rail freight pays this price and still prospers...


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## ChrisZwolle

I've read S8 in Warszawa is funded by the city only. Is this also the case for S2? Because I feel EU should co-fund such important projects. They are funding some low-trafficked roads as much as 80%, so I also feel EU should co-fund important high-trafficked roads (like S2), because they play a vital function in the distribution of traffic around large cities. 

I can understand that EU wouldn't fund roads like Trasa N-S, Trasa Siekierkowska, Trasa Sucharskiego or DTS, but roads like S2 and S8 around Warszawa play a vital function in complemeting the national A/S network.


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## ChrisZwolle

> Yeah, sure. If the road freight operators had to pay the full price of the infrastructure they're using, they would go bankrupt in a day. Rail freight pays this price and still prospers...


That's not really how it works. Road freight shares the road with passenger traffic, which both pay taxes. Heavy trucks pay additional tolls. In a developed country, road-related government revenue exceeds road expenditure by a factor 2 - 5. This is not yet the case in Poland, as extraordinary investment is needed to bring the Polish road network up to the standards of a developed country. 

Believe me, if Poland is as wealthy as western Europe, you will see road, auto and fuel taxes go up and road investment go down, until the point road transport is just seen as a mean to fund the regular national budget - as opposed to the funding of the service (roads) they're using.


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> I've read S8 in Warszawa is funded by the city only.


Nope.

It was supposed to be funded only by state (GDDKiA), later it also received EU help.


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## toonczyk

mcarling said:


> Sure but, if motorways are too expensive, then build expressways, which are less expensive. I'm willing to pay for motorways. Are you?


We were discussing toll prices, whether or not they are too high in Poland.
We are building expressways instead of motorways, but it has nothing to do with tolls. I am willing to pay for access to higher standard roads (even though I already pay for it in my income tax, VAT for my car, all kinds of taxation on the fuel etc.), I just don't understand why motorways are tolled and expressways are not. Motorways are treated as an investment - costs of their construction are supposed to be covered by tolls over some period of time (30-40 years). Why is this the only kind of government-built infrastructure that is treated like that, and normal roads, expressways or railways are not?

But it's not really on topic. Motorway tolls are a very delicate subject on our polish board, mods may punish me somehow for mentioning this here, so I'll better be quiet 



ChrisZwolle said:


> I've read S8 in Warszawa is funded by the city only. Is this also the case for S2? Because I feel EU should co-fund such important projects. They are funding some low-trafficked roads as much as 80%, so I also feel EU should co-fund important high-trafficked roads (like S2), because they play a vital function in the distribution of traffic around large cities.
> I can understand that EU wouldn't fund roads like Trasa N-S, Trasa Siekierkowska, Trasa Sucharskiego or DTS, but roads like S2 and S8 around Warszawa play a vital function in complemeting the national A/S network.


All A/S roads in Poland are funded by the government. S8 and S2 is no exception, it is funded by GDDKiA, city has nothing to do with that. S8 and S2 are co-funded by EU as well.
As far as the city goes, we are also getting some funding for smaller infrastructure projects, like Al. Jerozolimskie / Łopuszańska junction (thread).


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## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> I feel EU should co-fund such important projects. They are funding some low-trafficked roads as much as 80%, so I also feel EU should co-fund important high-trafficked roads (like S2), because they play a vital function in the distribution of traffic around large cities.
> 
> I can understand that EU wouldn't fund roads like Trasa N-S, Trasa Siekierkowska, Trasa Sucharskiego or DTS, but roads like S2 and S8 around Warszawa play a vital function in complemeting the national A/S network.


In my opinion, the best case for EU subsidies for roads would be to connect the major cities of the 2004 entrants to the road networks of the previous EU members states e.g. motorways connecting Warsaw, Katowice, Prague, Brno, Bratislava, Ljubljana, and Budapest with Berlin, Munich, Vienna, etc.

I find it difficult to believe that six and a half years after Poland joined the EU, we still don't have a motorway connecting Warsaw with Berlin (or anywhere else) yet we have loads of new roads built with EU funds in relatively obscure places. The distribution of road subsidies seems to be more political than economic.


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## E2rdEm

ChrisZwolle said:


> Road freight shares the road with passenger traffic, which both pay taxes. Heavy trucks pay additional tolls. In a developed country, road-related government revenue exceeds road expenditure by a factor 2 - 5.


It's irrelevant in a rail-vs-road discussion. Railways pay the same taxes as road transport (same VAT, same CIT, same fuel taxes if they use diesel, only lower excise (pol. akcyza) if they use electricity). Plus, they pay infrastructure costs. At least in Poland, road carriers don't really pay for the roads they use - only some funny vignette fee of 2600 PLN which is ca. 650 € *a year*. It may change in the years to come, when the electronic toll system will be introduced. But for now - 2600PLN is a daily cost of running a 1-car passenger DMU over the state-owned rail infrastructure, and a yearly cost of the truck on state-owned roads. :nuts:


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## LMB

toonczyk said:


> The price has to be considered in relation to mean salaries.


And the mean salary has to be normalized to prices ("Purchasing power parity"), which you failed to do. That way the salaries are 60% higher, because of lower prices in Eastern Europe.


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## LMB

mcarling said:


> I find it difficult to believe that six and a half years after Poland joined the EU, we still don't have a motorway connecting Warsaw with Berlin (or anywhere else)


Any economic grounds for such a motorway? Is Warsaw a production hub in a quick need of a direct connection to Germany?


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## DSzumaher

*proposals*

I believe that's a good idea, but much worse to release.

I think that it's hard to find a good name for a typical transit motorway (ie, along or across country), which cross several regions. Easier for the regional, for example:
A6 - Szczecinianka (woman born in Szczecin)
A8 - Wrocławianka (woman born in Wrocław)
A18 - Autostrada Leśna - Forest Motorway

And for S-roads came to mind such names:
S3 - Ekspresówka* Zachodnia - Western Expressway
S6 - Ekspresówka Nadmorska - Seaside Expressway.
S14 - Łodzianka (woman born in Łódź)
S17 - Ekspresówka Lubelska - Lublin Expressway
S19 - Ekspresówka Wschodnia - Eastern Expressway
S22 - Ekspresówka Rosyjska - Russian Expressway
S51 - Olsztynianka (woman born in Olsztyn)
S69 - Ekspresówka Żywiecka - Zywiec Expressway.

* term is too colloquial, but not invent a better

Personally, I think that none of Polish motorways will not receive an official name, which also will be used as a rule.

In addition _Olimpijka_, _Gierkówka_ whether it would add _Berlinka_, _Zakopianka_, _Rydzykówka_.


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## seem

DSzumaher said:


> I believe that's a good idea, but much worse to release.
> 
> I think that it's hard to find a good name for a typical transit motorway (ie, along or across country), which cross several regions. Easier for the regional, for example:
> A6 - Szczecinianka (woman born in Szczecin)
> A8 - Wrocławianka (woman born in Wrocław)
> A18 - Autostrada Leśna - Forest Motorway
> 
> And for S-roads came to mind such names:
> S3 - Ekspresówka* Zachodnia - Western Expressway
> S6 - Ekspresówka Nadmorska - Seaside Expressway.
> S14 - Łodzianka (woman born in Łódź)
> S17 - Ekspresówka Lubelska - Lublin Expressway
> S19 - Ekspresówka Wschodnia - Eastern Expressway
> S22 - Ekspresówka Rosyjska - Russian Expressway
> S51 - Olsztynianka (woman born in Olsztyn)
> S69 - Ekspresówka Żywiecka - Zywiec Expressway.
> 
> * term is too colloquial, but not invent a better
> 
> Personally, I think that none of Polish motorways will not receive an official name, which also will be used as a rule.
> 
> In addition _Olimpijka_, _Gierkówka_ whether it would add _Berlinka_, _Zakopianka_, _Rydzykówka_.


I just didn't get it. Women born in Szczecin?

Better translation might be Szczecin's motorway, Wrocław's motorway or Motorway of Wrocław etc. 

_and btw, Slovak people might like this name - S3 - Ekspresówka* Zachodnia - Western Expressway - for me as Slovakian it is reminding me Motorway of Toilet (Zachod in polish means west = Toilet (Záchod) in Slovak language) _


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## DSzumaher

seem said:


> Better translation might be Szczecin's motorway, Wrocław's motorway or Motorway of Wrocław etc.


then in Polish it would be:
Autostrada Szczecińska
Autostrada Wrocławska

I believe these two versions are too formal for the Poles, hence the idea for the name of a more colloquial.



> Women born in Szczecin?


This is a literal translation.


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## seem

DSzumaher said:


> then in Polish it would be:
> Autostrada Szczecińska
> Autostrada Wrocławska
> 
> I believe these three versions are too formal for the Poles, hence the idea for the name of a more colloquial.


I am sorry. I see now and I understand clearly. 

Szczecińska/Szczecinianka makes sence. I didn't read it properly so I tought it is Szczecinian*s*ka. 

but anyway - women from Szczecin ; )


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## DSzumaher

seem said:


> but anyway - women from Szczecin ; )


carefully: 
woman from Szczecin - Szczecinianka
women from Szczecin - Szczecinianki


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## ajuc

Roads are female in Polish language, that's why it's Szczecinianka, not Szczecinianin, or Szczeciniątko 

BTW some roads already have names, like "Zakopianka" for example.


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## kalle_sg

I guess some historical names could be in use. One example was already given (and is actually already in use) - _Amber One_. I don't like this particular name, but the idea of referring to the amber road is a good one.

Some roads are going to have names - like _Via Baltica_ or _Via Carpathia_ (but also others, outside of Poland - like _Via Carolina_ Paris - Prague). A4 (and basically whole E40) is a somewhat modern version of the medievial _Via Regia_. Maybe this name could be used as well?

Then, the more modern, yet traditional names - like _Gierkówka_, _Olimpijka_, _Berlinka_. They won't be easily forgotten, I'm sure of that.

Anyway, I don't believe there will be any official names - and maybe it's better, considering our politics. I can already see the Kopernik motorway, the John Paul II expressroad and so on (not to mention some more controversial individuals)... hno:



DSzumaher said:


> A18 - Autostrada Leśna - Forest Motorway


This is awesome :hilarious


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## ChrisZwolle

Looking at Google Earth, I was wondering how S2 will be build through the Ursynów area, as that area is developing rapidly and quite dense. There seems to be some kind of corridor available, but I assume they will not build it on a large viaduct between the apartment buildings.


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## toonczyk

^^ S2 will cross Ursynów in a 2,6km long tunnel.


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## ChrisZwolle

Interesting. Cut & cover I suppose? The corridor is there, I can imagine it would be too expensive to make a bored tunnel if you can use a cut & cover method as well.


----------



## macieii

They will have to go below the existing subway tunnel, I guess it will not be possible to close it because it leads to the maintenance station. No drilling I guess, but no cut & cover either ?

Regarding the names, the A1 between Gdansk and Grudziadz is sometimes promoted as Amber One. Cool nickname for me.


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## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> Interesting. Cut & cover I suppose? The corridor is there, I can imagine it would be too expensive to make a bored tunnel if you can use a cut & cover method as well.


I have no idea what method will be used, but I know one thing - it's going to be expensive. And given how currently there are talks about cutting infrastructure spending, we may not see S2 finished in this decade...


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## ChrisZwolle

Well, at least there is Trasa Siekierkowska for the time being.


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## macieii

If it's not finished or under construction soon I bet this will be the major topic of the next local elections in 4 years: to complete the southern by-pass of Warsaw. All the traffic coming from S2 will be trying to get to the Trasa Siekierkowska through some bigger or smaller streets, completely blocking that part of Warsaw


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## and802

macieii said:


> If it's not finished or under construction soon I bet this will be the major topic of the next local elections in 4 years: to complete the southern by-pass of Warsaw. All the traffic coming from S2 will be trying to get to the Trasa Siekierkowska through some bigger or smaller streets, completely blocking that part of Warsaw


nothing but the truth.

this will be a big issue. we urgently need the southern bypass. the probelm is that in road infrastructure dictionary - "urgently" means at least 4 years.


----------



## ufonut

DTS Zabrze by gpj70



gpj70 said:


> Zdjęcia z soboty 06.11.2010r.
> 
> wiadukt przy Lidlu - wygląda że powstaja bariery chroniące filary
> 
> 
> widok z wiaduktu w kierunku Rudy Śl.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> na granicy z Rudą Śl. zgromadzono sprzęt do asfaltowania - pewnie po niedzieli możemy spodziewać się kolejnego odcinka warstwy ścieralnej
> 
> 
> i w kierunku centrum Zabrza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spojrzenie wstecz na węzeł
> 
> 
> i idziemy dalej w kierunku tunelu dla pieszych pod DTŚ przy ul. Lompy gdzie przybyło trochę barier energochłonnych
> 
> 
> 
> 
> spojrzenie do tyłu za tunelem
> 
> 
> zoom
> 
> 
> cdn





gpj70 said:


> cd zdjęć z soboty 06.11.2010r.
> 
> idziemy w kierunku węzła z ul. P.Skargi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> trwał intensywny siew trawy
> 
> 
> wiadukt ul. P.Skargi
> 
> 
> widok z wiaduktu w kierunku Rudy Śl.
> 
> 
> i centrum Zabrza
> 
> 
> 
> 
> trwa budowa chodnika wzdłuż ekranów od strony ul. Wolności
> 
> 
> a na przystanku tramwajowym pracowali przy fundamentach pod wiatę tramwajową
> 
> 
> 
> cdn


----------



## CNGL

DSzumaher said:


> And for S-roads came to mind such names:
> S6 - Ekspresówka Nadmorska - Seaside Expressway.


How about _Ekspresówka Północnia_ or Northern expressway? It could fit, too.


----------



## michael_siberia

The whole freeway hasn't to have only one name  Eg. A4 in Katowice is known as Aleja Górnośląska (official name of section between ICs Mikołowska and Murckowska. Aleja Górnośląska = Upper Silesian Avenue). One part of the DTŚ freeway in Katowice is called Trasa Reńców (Renc Route).


----------



## DSzumaher

CNGL said:


> How about _Ekspresówka Północnia_ or Northern expressway? It could fit, too.


A pretty good suggestion, but IMHO would be entirely suitable, if S6 passed even through Warmian-Masurian Voivodeship.
This line of thinking A4 should be called _Autostrada Południowa_ - _Southern Motorway_, but I think that this name in this case would be a little expressive.

Aha, I came up with the next name for S6: _Ekspresówka Pomorska_ - _Pomeranian Expressway_

PS I guess, A4 unofficially ever called _Autostrada Śląska_ - _Silesian Motorway_, but then A4 through Lesser Poland and Subcarpathian Voivodeships it was a distant future.


----------



## mapman:cz

Good name for A4 would be _Autostrada Podgórska_ (corresponding to _Pomorska_) or sth like that, you can see the mountain ranges of southern Poland almost all the time


----------



## Asinus

DSzumaher said:


> Aha, I came up with the next name for S6: _Ekspresówka Pomorska_ - _Pomeranian Expressway_



Planned section of S6 in pomeranian voivodeship is called *Kashubian Route* or Lębork Route.


----------



## czerwony_bo_szybszy

mapman:cz said:


> Good name for A4 would be _Autostrada Podgórska_ (corresponding to _Pomorska_) or sth like that, you can see the mountain ranges of southern Poland almost all the time


I don`t think so
"Podgórska" would suggest that it goes to the mountain, which isn`t true
I`d rather call it "Austostrada Południowa"

anyway "Pomorska" is a very good idea

for A2 I would propose "Warszawska" (Warsaw Motorway), as it`s the only one to reach Warsaw + for S69 "Beskidzka" appears more suitable


----------



## Sagaris

czerwony_bo_szybszy said:


> for A2 I would propose "Warszawska" (Warsaw Motorway), as it`s the only one to reach Warsaw + for S69 "Beskidzka" appears more suitable


You mean Poznanska right? :smug:
A2 lets Berliners and Warszawiacy to come visit Poznan.


----------



## bebe.2006

I like it:



proskarzysko said:


>


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Ah, Skarżysko-Kamienna. I suppose it will open pretty soon, right?


----------



## Blaskovitz

How BOR works


----------



## czerwony_bo_szybszy

Sagaris said:


> You mean Poznanska right? :smug:
> A2 lets Berliners and Warszawiacy to come visit Poznan.


I also call it "Poznańska" ;D
but it may change after reaching Warsaw
I think it`s difficult to name a 500km long motorway with one name, especially in country where the capital isn`t dominating


----------



## Mateusz

Some countries give names to their motorways, others don't. Personally I don't mind but here are some ideas 

A1 = Autostrada Bursztynowa (Amber Motorway)
A2 = Autostrada Olimpijska (Olympic Motorrway) because of 1980 games in Moscow, Euro 2012 and alleged Warsaw's candidature in 2020 Olympics bid  
A4 = Autostrada Południowa (Southern Motorway) 
A6 = Autostrada Berlińska or Berlinka (Berlin Motorway)
A8 = AOW 
A18= I don't know... maybe something like Lusatian Motorway


----------



## bebe.2006

ChrisZwolle said:


> Ah, Skarżysko-Kamienna. I suppose it will open pretty soon, right?


Let's take a look:

-S7 Skarżysko-Kamienna - Występa .... 16,7 km.....01/2009 - 12/2010 ........Strabag, Mota-Engil www.s7-skarzysko-wystepa.pl/

Another sections at this project are not so far advanced. I don't know the date by when construction will be finished.

http://www.s7-skarzysko-wystepa.pl/site.php?id=70


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A18 Olszyna - Krzyżowa 

There hasn't been much news about the renovation of this shameful road, has there?


----------



## ufonut

A1 Sosnica interchange (a very cool photo by *esce*)


----------



## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> A18 Olszyna - Krzyżowa
> 
> There hasn't been much news about the renovation of this shameful road, has there?


No...

Maybe this summer, that's all.


----------



## rakcancer

PLH said:


> No...
> 
> Maybe this summer, that's all.


That is a real shame. Piece of crappy highway going to welcome visitors traveling from west to see modern venues built for Euro 2012 in Wroclaw...


----------



## PLH

In 2012 this section will be in such an advanced phase of reconstruction that the old concrete will be already gone, so don't worry.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

You can repave old concrete to very smooth asphalt within half a year. So there are still chances it will be completed before Euro2012, but I do think it should happen in 2011.


----------



## Warsawbynight

ChrisZwolle said:


> You can repave old concrete to very smooth asphalt within half a year. So there are still chances it will be completed before Euro2012, but I do think it should happen in 2011.


Is suggested it half year ago on A18 polish thread. Nobody liked the idea.


----------



## PLH

Because it is throwing money down the drain. Covering pre-war concrete did not work in case of other stretches of such roads because ashalt gradually filled spaces betwen the slabs and it was bumpy as it was before.

Besides, in case of A18 it is more to do than only repaving. Hard shoulder, drainage, fence - all this has to be done.


----------



## Warsawbynight

The damages of our image will be far bigger than the costs of this temporary pavement.

Other complex works could be done as soon as the temporary pavement will disintegrate again - I think it should last at least a year anyway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They could also reduce the road to 2 lanes during Euro 2012. A bit drastic option to improve the image. The best would be to reconstruct it of course.


----------



## PLH

Why cannot you understand that during Euro 2012 this road will be already undergoing reconstruction? Surely it won't be finished by that time, but all the traffic will be moved away from the old concrete(not to mention it will be long gone by that time)

2012:


----------



## Fuzzy Llama

^^
Well, the name was assigned in the early twenties to a boulevard-like section that today is in the city centre, and it was preserved as the ugly commie post-war Warsaw grew.


----------



## Chris80678

On a more positive note there are still several motorways/expressways opening next month:

A1 (Bełk-Świerklany - from the photos on its website looking ever nearer to completion) 
A8 (E67-Wrocław airport - from the photos on its website looking ever nearer to completion)

S8 (Warsaw western ring road - which looks impressive and very close to completion already from the photos on its website)
S3 (Myślibórz-Gorzów Wlkp)

So lets look forward to when the above roads open in Dec 2010 :banana:


----------



## Piotrek_409

Fuzzy Llama said:


> ^^
> Well, the name was assigned in the early twenties to a boulevard-like section that today is in the city centre, and it was preserved as the ugly commie post-war Warsaw grew.


Actually continuation of Aleja Krakowska in City of Warsaw boundairies (called Aleja Krakowska and Grójecka) look more like 'aleja' road type:



















Raszyn suburbs rapidly grew in early 90's during transformation from communism to capitalism, when government had more important issues to care about. Currently there is a lack of goodwill to change the situation.


----------



## rakcancer

Chris80678 said:


> On a more positive note there are still several motorways/expressways opening next month:
> 
> A1 (Bełk-Świerklany - from the photos on its website looking ever nearer to completion)
> A8 (E67-Wrocław airport - from the photos on its website looking ever nearer to completion)
> 
> S8 (Warsaw western ring road - which looks impressive and very close to completion already from the photos on its website)
> S3 (Myślibórz-Gorzów Wlkp)
> 
> So lets look forward to when the above roads open in Dec 2010 :banana:


that is a bunch of good news! so there will be whole S3 completed from Sczecin to Gorzow Wielkopolski:cheers:


----------



## Nowax

^^ Krakow - North Bypass ^^
Potos by sprenzynaKRK :cheers:


----------



## mdhookey

It may sound like a dumb question, but is there a road number for the North Bypass in Krakow?


----------



## amst

S7, no?


----------



## drowningman666

2 lanes, ain't that too narrow for Cracow ??


----------



## ChrisZwolle

S7 passes by the east side of Kraków. This road will connect A4 and S7 (thus be a part of the full ring road of Kraków). I guess it will receive some DW-number one day.

Do you guys think the Kraków ring road will be finished earlier than the Warszawa ring road?


----------



## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> I guess it will receive some DW-number one day.


This particular section shown will be DK94 (national road), the rest - a DW(local road).



> Do you guys think the Kraków ring road will be finished earlier than the Warszawa ring road?


Hard to say... On one side Kraków has less to do (more than 3/4 already exists or is U/C, compared to ca. 1/2 in Warsaw), on the other - Warsaw ringroad has bigger priority, because, as you said, northern section of Kraków ringroad will be a DW and thus funded by local goverment.


----------



## maciekph

PLH said:


> (...)
> northern section of Kraków ringroad will be a DW and thus funded by local goverment.


IMHO it will be changed over the time hopefully.
It's only speculation of course but keeping 3/4 or ring road as national roads (S, A, DK) and 1/4 as DW (province road) is ridiculous. :nuts:


----------



## ufonut

AOW - Wroclaw Bypass by Garym



garym said:


> No to sprawdźmy co jeszcze robią w okolicy Muchoboru Wlk.
> 
> A więc po pierwsze dokańczają ekrany, tu akurat te przezroczyste:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Składają się one z takich płyt chyba pleksowych:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coś mi tu jednak nie pasuje. O ile pamiętam to ekrany przezroczyste miały być stawiane na obiektach inżynieryjnych, a tu proszę. Widać najpierw ekrany przezroczyste nad torami kolejowymi i łącznikiem do Smolca, potem są betonowe, a w głębi znowu przezroczyste:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ciekawe dlaczego. Przecież jak miasto chciało przezroczyste, żeby na stadion był widok, to GDDKiA kazała dopłacać. Zajrzyjmy więc co jest za tymi ekranami:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jak nic moje osiedle . Czyżby developer zapłacił, by mieć reklamę? Przynajmniej będę widział kiedy do domu dojeżdżam
> Ale czy takie ekranu nie maja gorszych właściwości tłumienia hałasu?
> 
> Czasami jeszcze inne elementy bliskiej mi okolicy widać, ale to tylko do czasu:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A tak wygląda AOW zabetonowana z dwóch stron. Prawie jak w tunelu:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ale widok na lotnisko jest otwarty, widać je w głębi. Po prawej stronie dwa niezamieszkałe budynki. O ten biały była kiedyś sprawa z komornikiem, którą właściciel wygrał i dostał odszkodowanie. Można powiedzieć, że na szczęście bo mieszkać chyba by teraz tam nie chciał:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Z innych prac, to montowane są jeszcze bariery energochłonne:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Malowane jest też oznakowanie poziome. I jeszcze ciekawostka. Po co jest robione takie "lotnisko" bez pasa zieleni pośrodku?


----------



## and802

^^
nice. just wonder whether delivery date is still valid.

the last picture was taken at soviet highway.

but seriously: is it allowed to have the motorway without the crash barrier in the middle ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The last picture seems to be an emergency crossing. In case of a road closure (accident, roadworks), traffic can be diverted to one carriageway.


----------



## PLH

and802 said:


> is it allowed to have the motorway without the crash barrier in the middle ?


No, it's not. The (removable) crashbarrier will be added soon.

Some aerials, A4 x A8:
















































More: http://www.obwodnica-wroclawia.pl/postep.html


----------



## mcarling

*Bialystok Bypass*

Does anyone know when the reconstruction of the northern bypass of Bialystok is expected to be completed?


----------



## Rusonaldo

3 films from Warsaw


----------



## and802

very good news for those drivers who can't wait for Warsaw S8 (Konotopa - Prymasa Tysiąclecia section). 

it is already open !!!!!!!!!!!!

now seriously:

I was surprised visiting today website map24.pl (Navteq engine and navteq data). it shows this route, although it is not taken into consideration during route calculation.

looks like it is quite close to open it.

Now if I want to know the other delivery dates firstly I would be checking navteq data.


----------



## Belgrader

Wow, impressive. Poland should be an inspiration to all Europeans. Bravo. :cheers:


----------



## Jevpls

Hey, I'm gathering some information about roads in Poland and I hope you could help me.

I found a map with existing motorways and motorways under construction but I'm missing information about traffic on them.
Can you get me some information about traffic volumes on motorways in your country for year 2009 or even 2010 if it's possible?
I tried to search for it in http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/ but I couldn't find anything useful...

Thanks in advance.


----------



## toonczyk

Jevpls said:


> Hey, I'm gathering some information about roads in Poland and I hope you could help me.
> 
> I found a map with existing motorways and motorways under construction but I'm missing information about traffic on them.
> Can you get me some information about traffic volumes on motorways in your country for year 2009 or even 2010 if it's possible?
> I tried to search for it in http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/ but I couldn't find anything useful...
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Latest data available is from 2005. Report from this year's traffic volume measurements will be available in a few months.

If you are looking for traffic volume prognosis for roads under construction, you can find them in environmental documentation, which usually isn't available online (unless guys from SISKOM, great pro-infrastructure NGO, publish it).


----------



## Jevpls

Thanks, toonczyk.
Strange that only that old data is available...


----------



## Piekarz

Jevpls said:


> Thanks, toonczyk.
> Strange that only that old data is available...


The traffic analysis in Poland are made once every 5 years. But in new roads there will be automatic weighing machines installed soon. They will give information about traffic right away.


----------



## toonczyk

Jevpls said:


> Thanks, toonczyk.
> Strange that only that old data is available...


This is a costly operation, we have around 20k km of major roads, so it takes hundreds of people, lots of equipment and time to do those measurements right.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

toonczyk said:


> If you are looking for traffic volume prognosis for roads under construction, you can find them in environmental documentation, which usually isn't available online (unless guys from SISKOM, great pro-infrastructure NGO, publish it).


Wow really, here in the Netherlands it is required that these documents (environmental impact assessment, noise surveys, air quality, etc.) are put online for "public participation". They have an entire government website dedicated for such material, containing hundreds of GB of documents.



> The traffic analysis in Poland are made once every 5 years. But in new roads there will be automatic weighing machines installed soon. They will give information about traffic right away.


Main roads (that is: every DK-road and important DW-roads) ought to have permanent counting stations with induction loops in the pavement. If you want to do an environmental study, you don't want to work with 3 to 5 year old data, especially considering the rapid development in Poland. Local governments should be responsible for counting municipal roads. 

I conduct traffic counts for a medium-sized municipality with 40.000 inhabitants, and we have over 100 counting locations, and most of them are counted every year.


----------



## Jevpls

In Latvia we count vehicles each year. Last years because of lack of money, we count only main roads (about 1600 km) and part or regional roads. Local roads usually aren't included in this list (only some of them - the most important ones).

But once in 5 years...Don't you even have some countings for monitoring the difference between AADT volumes? How do you know whether AADT is rising or not?

Wouldn't it better to count 20% of roads every year?


----------



## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> Wow really, here in the Netherlands it is required that these documents (environmental impact assessment, noise surveys, air quality, etc.) are put online for "public participation". They have an entire government website dedicated for such material, containing hundreds of GB of documents.


Well, that's the problem with most public information in Poland. It's not like the documentation is secret, you just have to go in person and ASK for it (sometimes by means of a formal request form).
I know Jakub Warszauer from SISKOM visits this thread quite often, maybe he can explain in detail how the reality of access to environmental documentation looks like. But it is definitely an area, where our government is still miles behind the west.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Main roads (that is: every DK-road and important DW-roads) ought to have permanent counting stations with induction loops in the pavement.


As someone wrote earlier, more and more automatic counting devices are mounted on polish roads, but it's going to take a long time before the system covers whole road network, simply because of its size. If we count not only DK roads, but DW's too, we get around 50,000 kilometers...


----------



## aswnl

toonczyk said:


> But it is definitely an area, where our government is still miles behind the west.


Poland is part of the west for me already. The "east" now starts at the Belarus border.

In NL the treshold on objecting against plans had become that low, that many public projects suffered huge delays. Be careful to find a reasonable balance between openness and sluggishness in procedures...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, until recently, the procedural time for road, rail or water projects in the Netherlands was 14 years on average. By the time the project was completed it was a solution for a traffic problem 20 years earlier, thus immediately out of date. That's why we saw some huge overhauls on Dutch roads recently (from 2x3 to 2x5 and from 2x2 to 2x4 and so on..)

It doesn't look like this will happen in Poland yet, although they do suffer from delays from time to time (I don't have to mention S8 Syców - Walichnowy I think).


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

*Jevpls*- if you need traffic data for specific roads (like Via Baltica) dig in our web-site: www.siskom.waw.pl. Full report from 2005 is also available. 

Site is in Polish, if google translate fails to help, write me a PM.



> I know Jakub Warszauer from SISKOM visits this thread quite often, maybe he can explain in detail how the reality of access to environmental documentation looks like. But it is definitely an area, where our government is still miles behind the west.


Environmental Impact Assesments (EIA's) are available at Regional Environment Protection Agency (_Regionalna Dyrekcja Ochrony Środowiska_ - _RDOŚ_) or Local Environment Protection Bureau (_Biuro/Wydział Ochrony Środowiska_ or similar). 

RDOŚ is a separate agency, organised just like GDDKiA (Road construction agency). There are HQ in Warsaw + 16 Regional Agencies. They handle larger projects: roads longer than 10 km, railways, water treatment and so on.

Local EP Bureau are attached to Municipalities, and analyze the rest of junk.

News about everything they do, have, analyze, write is published on their web sites. Thank God they use RSS, so there is no problem to follow the news.

Because of lack of funds and political will EIA'a are not published on-line (the main and real reason is in the last paragraph of this post). Our law gives us right to receive any environmental information "without further notice". It's based (nearly a translation) of the Aarhus Convention. In Warsaw it works fine. 

You come, fill one page of paper (name, date, what do you need). You can see, read, copy everithing but personal data. You can also give your opinion about the project. If you have your own CD/DVD or pen drive, they copy it free of charge. If you want, they will send you a CD. The fees are regulated and inconsiderable (as long as you don't visit RDOŚ twice a month).

In Warsaw it takes me from 10 minutes up to 3 hours to obtain full EIA. If it takes longer than 30 minutes, I just go to the city to eat my lunch and come back later.

Example:
It took me about 20 minutes from walking in to walk out to receivr full EIA for A2 motorway from Warsaw to Brest (Belarus). 

But there is another problem. Polish designers don't care about size of files. A2 is currently about 1,6 GB of data inf PDF and JPG files. I started from 2 GB. It takes a lot of time to make it smaller and more handy before I'll upload it on SISKOM webiste.

-------------
I'm sorry for mistakes (my english is better that this above), Im tired, need some sleep but didn't want to leave questions without answer.


----------



## X236K

How's the border section of A1 progressing? I've seen the finisher on the Czech side recently, almost done with the pavement.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

GDDKiA updated their site, looks like a great visual improvement!

http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/


----------



## bebe.2006

Experssway S7 in Kraków 1 day after opening. The traffic is still not so intense. Film by Agusia. She drove A4 to S7 and then back:



Agusia said:


> No to zapraszam na przejażdżkę tam i z powrotem..
> Wczoraj mgła i zamknięte, później noc i słaba jakość.. to do trzech razy sztuka (chociaż deszcz).


___________________________________________________________________________


Good to see the road no. 16 is upgraded to S-standard, although it is marked DK16 (not S16). The construction of next section: Biskupiec - Borki Wielkie (8,2 km) in 2x2, is signed today.



los77 said:


> *DK16 Barczewo - Biskupiec cz. 1/2*
> 
> Data fotorelacji : *2010 11 13*​
> Zaczynamy od miejsca gdzie jest tajemnicza zatoczka dla autobusów. Niestety nie udało mi się zrobić zdjęć oznakowania dla tej zatoczki ale z tego co widziałem to była tabliczka "tylko dla autobusów szkolnych"






los77 said:


> *DK16 Barczewo - Biskupiec cz. 2/2*
> 
> Data fotorelacji : *2010 11 13*​
> I zbliżamy się do węzła Biskupiec. Za chwilę rozwidlenie na dwie jezdnie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Po prawej zjazd na DK57
> 
> 
> Po prawej wjazd z DK57
> 
> 
> Zbliżamy się do końca odcinka


----------



## Nowax

S7 Krakow - East Bypass


----------



## Blaskovitz

DK 79, alternative road for A4. 

http://motoryzacja.interia.pl/rapor...olsce/news/a4-za-pol-ceny-jest-sposob,1559509


----------



## PLH

Gliwice - Sośnica Interchange:


----------



## Chris80678

At last the long overdue S7 Kraków eastern bypass opens! :banana: 
When is vital work going to start on extending and connecting the 
S7 Kraków eastern bypass to the current E77 to the north of Kraków? 
The S7 Kraków loop/bypass needs to go around the whole of eastern and northern Kraków for it to be effective and fully used to carry Warsaw-bound traffic and not just around a tiny part of Kraków's eastern suburbs. 
It's a good quality road :cheers: but is ultimately useless as like so many other major highways the expressway ends in city streets which only brings traffic off the A4 and back into the city to get to Warsaw :bash: On the plus side it is excellent to see Warsaw signed for the first time on the A4 - hopefully we will see it signed again at the A4/A8 interchange when section 1 of the A8 opens in December


----------



## kalle_sg

Chris80678 said:


> On the plus side it is excellent to see Warsaw signed for the first time on the A4 - hopefully we will see it signed again at the A4/A8 interchange when section 1 of the A8 opens in December


AFAIR Warsaw had already been signed on the A4/S1 intersection.


----------



## ryjek

Nice. Looks like screen from Playstation-game


----------



## tomekwrz




----------



## CmL86

@ChrisZwolle
Don't you think that driving 60km/h legally within towns isn't the best idea?


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## seem

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ But was the fatality reduction related to the speed limit decrease? Slovakia's traffic safety has improved drastically.
> 
> As for Poland, I think 120 km/h on 2x2 S-roads is a very good decision, but 140 km/h on A-roads is not that necessary in my opinion.


It decreased so much because of speed limit changed in 2007. We changed 60 km/h in towns to 50 km/h but on the other hand 70 km/h is on some main roads in towns where was 60 km/h before if there are no pedestrians. That exactly what Poland should do even if you have som many crowded roads but no motorways. So as you said Chris, 120 km/h on S-roads might be really good ane useful decision.


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## ChrisZwolle

CmL86 said:


> @ChrisZwolle
> Don't you think that driving 60km/h legally within towns isn't the best idea?


While 50 km/h is the default limit within towns in almost all of Europe, there are many urban roads where 50 km/h is absolutely ridiculous. Besides that, speed limits need to be enforced, not by constant speed traps, but by realigning a road so that 50 km/h feels natural. Nobody is going to drive 50 km/h on a straight wide road with only a sign that says "town name". Then either the road design or the speed limit is not correct.

The main problem of Poland right now is driving under influence and reckless driving on rural roads. The latter can be reduced by building more 2x2 S/A-roads.


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## CmL86

ChrisZwolle said:


> The main problem of Poland right now is driving under influence and reckless driving on rural roads.


I totally agree you. I just mean that it's not the right way.
We should increase, first of all, ridiculously low fines, but we do something exactly opposite. We set the rule that you can't be punished for exceeding speed "just" for 10km/h.
But anyway, I don't mind increasing the speed limits on S and even A roads, I just wish we did anything to increase safety at the same time.


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## ChrisZwolle

Well, building a large motorway / expressway network will significantly decrease traffic fatalities. We saw such a large reduction in Spain where they constructed almost 10.000 kilometers of motorway in the past 15 years. Spain is now one of the safest countries in Europe.


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## CmL86

Yeah, building new roads is very important, but it's not enough. As you said our problems are driving under influence and reckless driving on rural roads. To change that we should change the drivers' mentality, because alcohol and rural roads will always exist .
And we won't change the mentality by increasing the speed limits :nuts:.


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## ChrisZwolle

Well, there are basically two ways to approach the DUI-problem; first, you need to create some kind of social awareness that people find it unacceptable that relatives / friends drink and drive. This is a long process that will never wipe out DUI completely. Secondly, you need to increase enforcement, strict laws are one thing, but if you never get caught, people do not take it seriously. However, enforcing alcohol limits is a costly operation that will require many hours and can not be automated, hence most authorities rather invest in speed enforcement, because it cost less and the revenue is high.

However, the police force is not created to generate revenue, but increase safety.


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## CmL86

ChrisZwolle said:


> However, the police force is not created to generate revenue, but increase safety.


You know, I think that when it comes to Poland, majority of problems connected with breaking traffic regulations would disappear, if these ridiculous fines were increased tenfold . It's as simple as increasing the speed limits (it's even cheaper). And I'm not the only one, who think like that...


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## marobara

CmL86 said:


> You know, I think that when it comes to Poland, majority of problems connected with breaking traffic regulations would disappear, if these ridiculous fines were increased tenfold . It's as simple as increasing the speed limits (it's even cheaper). And I'm not the only one, who think like that...


I totally agree. The highest fine you can get for a single offence is 500zl. This is riddiculously low. 

There is also a point system. The idea is that you get 24 point limit every year and if you exceed it, you have to take driving exam again. The highest point count you can get for a single offence is 10, for example for speeding over 50 kph or DUI. So, for driving say, 110 km/h in urban area you get a fine of 500zl (under 130 euros) and 10 points. This is as low as it can get. Compare it to any EU country. The 24 point limit is also very generous - this means that you have to be *caught* doing at least 2 serious road offences and one smaller during a *single* year. This is a lot, I'm surprised that there are people that exceed it - this only tells how bad driving in Poland is.

Note that there are no rules that would allow the police to take your driving licence for a month or two. For now, the only way of loosing your licence, at least temporarily, is to cause an accident with fatalities while being under influence. And it can only be imposed by the court.

For me it would be reasonable to reduce the point limit to around 15 and raise fines by 100%.


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## Blaskovitz

marobara said:


> Two major problems for Poland in terms of traffic are drunk driving and overspeeding on non modernised DK roads that carry long range journeys.




Drunk and stoned.................... hno:


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## Sagaris

CmL86 said:


> Yeah, building new roads is very important, but it's not enough. As you said our problems are driving under influence and reckless driving on rural roads. To change that we should change the drivers' mentality, because alcohol and rural roads will always exist .
> And we won't change the mentality by increasing the speed limits :nuts:.


Rural roads will always exist, but building new S roads will get traffic off these rural roads, including these 'reckless' drivers. Most of these 'reckless' drivers are simply in a hurry (whether justified or not) and building S roads will certainly get these guys onto the safer motorways. Meanwhile, overall traffic on local rural roads will also decrease dramatically and the local 'reckless' drivers will become less of a threat (less cars to pass). 

The lack of motorways is a huge concern to road safety in Poland as most drivers (myself included) don't want to spend over 5 hours traveling a few hundred km in horrible traffic on thin inadequate roads. This just breeds overaggressive fast driving.


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## LMB

ChrisZwolle said:


> Well, there are basically two ways to approach the DUI-problem; [...] you need to increase enforcement, strict laws are one thing, but if you never get caught, people do not take it seriously.


You are implying that _if people get caught, they will take it seriously_. That does not work everywhere. 

The problem is that Poland is not one nation, but at least three (cf. history 1795-1918). In some parts of Poland even a bus driver, caught DUI, will be excused by his family (an actual example I witnessed!). Surely most of them do not drive UI, but those who do have the world and its laws up the end of their digestive system. There are multiple cases of people going to jail because they caused an accident doing DUI, having lost their driving licences for doing DUI. Maybe whipping could help. (Readers please remember, this is not the average, but the number of such people are still shocking). 

So the laws that are often seen excessive by some people in Poland are indeed too lax for others. This will not change until most people realize that such thing as 40 million people creating one nation is a utopia. Then a federalization can occur, and laws can be different in different places inhabited by completely different people. 

As for whipping, the problem is that Poland is too poor to implement better correctional schemes, such as "community service" as punishment, but it would surely work better than "1000 zł and ten points".


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## and802

LMB said:


> ....The problem is that Poland is not one nation, but at least three (cf. history 1795-1918)....



unless I attended wrong school, but there is only one major nation in Poland (over 90%). 

I believe you rather meant three different approaches/cultures


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## kooba

and802 said:


> unless I attended wrong school, but there is only one major nation in Poland (over 90%).
> 
> I believe you rather meant three different approaches/cultures


That's right. Poland has very small ethic diversity (over 96% Poles). During WWII most of the Jewish community was killed, Ukrainian, Lithuanian and Belarusians stay on the east side after border shifts, and most of German people was expelled.

Before WWII Poland was multicultural, but now it is one of the most homogeneous country in Europe.


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## Blaskovitz

kooba said:


> That's right. Poland has very small ethic diversity (over 96% Poles). During WWII most of the Jewish community was killed, Ukrainian, Lithuanian and Belarusians stay on the east side after border shifts, and most of German people was expelled.
> 
> Before WWII Poland was multicultural, but now it is one of the most homogeneous country in Europe.



96% are Poles but most of them has german descent like in Upper Silesia, Wilkopolska or Pomerania near Gdańsk, even in Mazuria, many Polish people has jewish roots too and other.

We are one nation but we have different genes.


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## mcarling

Blaskovitz said:


> We are one nation but we have different genes.


Genetic diversity is a good thing, but what does all this have to do with roads?


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## jwojcie

Well, about those drunken drivers, yes they are a problem but not so long ago I've read some research according to which the most dangerous drivers in Poland weren't drunken people but middle aged women... I'm not joking, I remember that some interlocutors were complaing that this common view that drunkards are the main problem is a cause that police is insensitive to other high risk groups of drivers. What they were claiming was that injures in accidents involving middle aged women were more serious than usual statistically speaking.

Unfortunatelly I cann't find the source of that  Anyway it was only some research, maybe they were wrong...


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## Blaskovitz

mcarling said:


> Genetic diversity is a good thing, but what does all this have to do with roads?


I made reference to previous posts. The mentality also has a big impact on safety.


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## kmieciu

*A2 highway Świecko-Nowy Tomyśl construction site. Section 5.1 from Interchange Świecko to Interchange Rzepin.*

A2 highway Świecko-Nowy Tomyśl construction site. Section 5.1 from Interchange Świecko to Interchange Rzepin.












kmieciu said:


> 45.Jedziemy pasem włączania od strony Słubic.
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kmieciu said:


> 50.Po lewej stronie widać początek betonu nawierchniowego i tak aż do WD5.
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kmieciu said:


> 55.Przejeżdżamy po WA2 pod nim przebiega linia kolejowa.
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kmieciu said:


> 60.
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## kmieciu

*A2 highway Świecko-Nowy Tomyśl construction site. Section 5.1 from Interchange Świecko to Interchange Rzepin.*

A2



kmieciu said:


> 65.
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kmieciu said:


> 70.Podoba mi się ten fragment drogi.
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kmieciu said:


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kmieciu said:


> 80.Nowy Tomyśl ^ ^ ^
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## ChrisZwolle

I don't think they're playing Blackjack all winter at GDDKiA


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## E2rdEm

^^ No, but I suspect they'll be looking for money all winter long.

Currently, we've overbooked. State deficit is too high and we can't borrow any more money for motorways. And for anything else to be honest. They're halting tenders. Don't expect any new constructions started next year.


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## Blaskovitz

ChrisZwolle said:


> I don't think they're playing Blackjack all winter at GDDKiA


No, they prefer poker  

Btw GDDKiA found money for 37,5 km A1 from Stryków to Piotrków Trybunalski.

Next year will be worse for GDDKiA, but 2012/2013 should be quite impressive.


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## Nowax

Green - done| Red - under construction | Magenta - project & bulid | Yellow - tender | Brown - tender for project & bulid | Blue - enviromental decision (DSU) :cheers:


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## mdhookey

Here's the latest map from IgorSel. As you can see, S17 now appears as a DSU from Warsaw to near Ryki, with a gap in the capital's eastern ring. Warsaw's ring road is taking shape...

Green - done| Red - under construction | Magenta - project & bulid | Yellow - tender | Brown - tender for project & bulid | Blue - enviromental decision (DSU


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## seem

What does DŚU stand for?


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## ChrisZwolle

^^

decyzji o środowiskowych uwarunkowaniach


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## sielwolf

^^

Decision on environmental conditions in new worlds latin


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## Chris80678

Does the 3 month winter break in construction mean that the A1, A8, S3 and S8 sections which are under construction and nearing completion each day will not open as scheduled in December? hno: It would be a shame to have to wait until 2011 for these routes to open :nuts:


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## PLH

There is no such thing as winter break. Everything depends only on weather conditions.


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## ChrisZwolle

Traffic chaos in Poland today due to heavy snow.

Atakuje Generalny Zimy 

unfortunately, all traffic cameras at GDDKiA seem to be out of order.


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Atakuje Generalny Zimy


Generał Zima  


> unfortunately, all traffic cameras at GDDKiA seem to be out of order.


Most of cameras in Warsaw are on line.
http://www.siskom.waw.pl/mapy/mapa-kamery.html


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## kooba

ChrisZwolle said:


> Atakuje Generalny Zimy


Atak Generalny Zimy, or Generalny Atak Zimy 

We're not afraid of a little snow fall !


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## ChrisZwolle

I really admire Poland with all these traffic cameras. There are only some 16 very low-res public traffic cameras in the Netherlands, half of which are permanently out of order.


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## PLH

*S3 Szczecin - Gorzów*

A sample of more than 200 aerials to come soon are published already over here.



JacYk said:


>


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## kmieciu

*A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl*

A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl. Photos taken in October by AWSA



kmieciu said:


> *Zdjęcia z października ze strony AWSA. Numeracja obiektów z pamięci, powinna się zgadzać.  *
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> WK33 linia kolejowa Międzyrzecz - Toporów okolice 50km.
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kmieciu said:


> Wiadukt w okolicach Trzciela.
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kmieciu said:


> Roboty wykończeniowe w okolicach Trzciela.
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## Jakub Warszauer

Photos made by me yesterday morning, night after extremely heavy snowing in Poland. It's not usual to drive on 2x2 highway (GP-class) 30-40 kph. 

It's DW719 (Regional Road), driving from Warsaw towards south-west, opposite direction to the morning rush hour.


Jakub Warszauer said:


> Akurat ja nie o tym.
> 
> Obiecane zdjęcia.
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> Przejazd od godziny 9:30 do 11:00. Przejechałem cały odcinek zarządzany przez MZDW, od (prawie) Warszawy do skrętu do Podkowy Leśnej.
> 
> Na całej trasie zero soli, piasku, żwiru, czegokolwiek. Nie widziałem ani jednej pługopiaskarki.
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> 1. Po lewej stronie korek do Warszawy...
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> 8. I na koniec jeszcze Otrębusy.


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## and802

Russia would be hosting FIFA 2018 tournament.

do you think guys it will have a positive impact on our A2 motorway (Warszawa - Kukuryki). to be precise I mean speeding up construction works


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## macieii

Wikipedia said:


> Fourteen cities are included in the current proposal, which divides them into five different clusters: one in the north, centered on St. Petersburg, a central cluster, centered on Moscow, a southern cluster, centered on Sochi, and the Volga River cluster. Only one city beyond the Ural Mountains is cited, Yekaterinburg. The other cities are: Kaliningrad in the north cluster, Rostov-on-Don and Krasnodar in the south cluster and Yaroslavl, Nizhny Novgorod, Kazan, Saransk, Samara and Volgograd in the Volga River cluster.


Therefore:
1. Kaliningrad - accessible via S22, 
2. Moscow - the only cluster/area accesible via A2, but S8 will be a good (better?) alternative.
3. St.Petersburg - S8/S61, or alternatively S22.
All the rest is either too far to be reached by car by broader public, or is in the south, so you'll get there via A4. 

Another problem is the borders, Poland/Belarus and Belarus/Russia, you have to cross them when travelling via A2. God knows what the political situation in Belarus will be in 8 years, but if nothing changes - crossing these borders and crossing Belarus may be pretty painful. IMO no one will seriously consider this route. 

My bet: no influence.


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## Jakub Warszauer

and802 said:


> Russia would be hosting FIFA 2018 tournament.
> 
> do you think guys it will have a positive impact on our A2 motorway (Warszawa - Kukuryki). to be precise I mean speeding up construction works


Who will take a car to reach Moscow for one match? No way.


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## ChrisZwolle

I don't think so either, unless you live in the Baltics perhaps. I even doubt if many western Europeans will drive to Ukraine for Euro 2012. Maybe some Poles or Germans will do that if they play in L'viv. The reputation of UA in western Europe is quite bad.


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## and802

well, looks like I was to much positive about it.

I thought Polish authorities should understand that traffic will increase somehow and this is our own (Polish) goal to make this corridor as much accessible/passable as possible.

but your opinions does not meet my assumptions.


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## Tornadoli

I have some questions which might have obvious answers, but I am wondering:

1) What is the importance of the S3 road? I heard that it was planned to be A3 previously, and it was downgraded. Nevertheless, it seems to have quite high priority, as quite large parts are already done, and large parts are under construction. I cannot see the importance of this road, as it only connects a few mid-sized cities. S6, S5, S7, S8 seem much more important to me, and I don't understand why S3 seems to have a higher priority.

2) What is the importance of the eastern part of A2? Yes, it would connect Russia with Europe, and therefore could be important, but is it easy to get through Belarus? Should it be a high-priority road?

3) What is the importance of the northern part of the S7 (Warsaw - Gdańsk)? Wouldn't it be quicker to build a road straight from Warsaw to around Bydgoszcz, which would require less building of new roads (only a connecting road between A1 and Warsaw) and still have more or less the same distance to Gdańsk?


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## ChrisZwolle

1) S3 serves traffic from the Silesian industrial area towards the port of Szczecin. Besides that, Szczecin, Gorzów Wielkopolski, Zielona Góra and Legnica are all cities with more than 100.000 inhabitants. 

2) The eastern part of A4 serves Ukraine, not Belarus nor Russia. In 2005 around 10.000 vehicles per day crossed the PL/UA border at Korczowa and Medyka combined, no doubt it has increased since (abolishing of visa for Ukraine). It is the key transit route for Ukraine to the industries of Germany and the major seaports on the North Sea. 

3) S7 serves through traffic from Gdansk to Warszawa, and also serves a large rural area. In 2005 the entire corridor saw volumes over 10.000 vehicles per day. The connection to Bydgoszcz will be in the form of S10 from Plonsk.


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## Jakub Warszauer

Ad 1
Connecting Szczecin (seaport) to the country. Currently Szczecin has better connection with Germany (I mean quality, not lenght) than with Poland.

Ad 2
Ukraine - does this word ring any bells?

Ad 3
S7 also covers connection to Olszytn capital city of Warmia & Mazury region. Anyway, road from Warsaw to Bygdoszcz & Toruń has already been modernised to GP-class, and some day it will be upgraded to S-class.


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## toonczyk

But this is true, that there are many other roads, which based on traffic volume should have priority over S7 and A4-east. I think especially in case of A4 priorities were political, due to hype around PL-UA football championship in 2012.


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## Tornadoli

Oh sorry, I mistyped. Of course I see the importance of the eastern part of A4 (Ukraine!), I meant the eastern part of the A2 highway.

About S3 - there is an S road planned going from the Silesian industrial area to Poznań. Therefore, if the justification of the S3 was to connect Szczecin to the Silesian industrial area, then a much bigger priority should have been given to the S-road from the Silesian industrial area to Poznań, not the S3 road.

toonczyk, which roads do you think should have been given higher priority?

Everyone, why is Poland building S-roads instead of A-roads? Their parameters are more or less the same, and just the fact that one will have to be paid by drivers and one will not is a bad argument, as one can just make free A-roads.


----------



## toonczyk

I think rings of all major cities and bypasses of all cities above 20k should be a priority. Warsaw is one big example of how priorities are all wrong. Our capital is going to be the last city among those with more than 200k citizens to get a real bypass (well, unless we manage to overtake Białystok). But it's too late to change that, maybe roads should be built in different order, but I'm more than happy with what we are getting anyway!


----------



## Sasza

There is no importance to build A2 to the Belarus border because traffic to Belarus is so poor. Why? Belarus is very... hmm intresting country 
Erm why connecting Silesia with Poznań should be more prioritized? 
And you must realized - when you will drive 2x2 S road in Poland you would think that it is Highway just like in Western Europe so it's just a few technicall parameters of difference between Autostrada and Droga Ekspresowa in Poland  You wouldn't probably even noticed it.

^^
Say "Thank you very much" to people who were protesting. Warsaw bypass is a years of protest because we in Poland just love to get new roads. But few kilometers away from our homes


----------



## Rusonaldo

Snow in Poland 

National Road nr 92






Motorway A2


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Tornadoli said:


> About S3 - there is an S road planned going from the Silesian industrial area to Poznań. Therefore, if the justification of the S3 was to connect Szczecin to the Silesian industrial area, then a much bigger priority should have been given to the S-road from the Silesian industrial area to Poznań, not the S3 road.


There are basically three S-roads that you can use from Silesian cities to Szczecin, from west to east; S3, S5 and S11, using a combination of other A or S-roads.


----------



## kassper

Sasza said:


> There is no importance to build A2 to the Belarus border because traffic to Belarus is so poor. Why? Belarus is very... hmm intresting country
> Erm why connecting Silesia with Poznań should be more prioritized?
> And you must realized - when you will drive 2x2 S road in Poland you would think that it is Highway just like in Western Europe so it's just a few technicall parameters of difference between Autostrada and Droga Ekspresowa in Poland  You wouldn't probably even noticed it.
> 
> ^^
> Say "Thank you very much" to people who were protesting. Warsaw bypass is a years of protest because we in Poland just love to get new roads. But few kilometers away from our homes


i don't agree because trafic to belarus is bigger than you think.trafic on roads DK 19 or DK 8 is very big and conecting poland with orther countries should become a priority.


----------



## Sasza

Yep but as you said DK19 and DK8 (and to be hones - DK19 is not so jammed road  but DK8 it is indeed). Through them you can travell to Baltic Countries and there will be such a road  Poland and Belarus have got very bad relations and our borders will be hard to close so priority for A2 to Belarus border is a good joke.


----------



## jwojcie

Regarding S3 road don't forget that KGHM is near by, which is fifth Polish company by market captialization, and first in terms of companies which actually produce anything material. There is not only Silesia in this equation, at least not only Upper one


----------



## michal_OMB

*[A8] Bypass Wroclaw*


----------



## michal_OMB

*[S3] Szczecin - Gorzow WLKP.*


----------



## michal_OMB

*[DTŚ] Drogowa Trasa Srednicowa (Silesia/Zabrze)*

photos by gpj70


----------



## ChrisZwolle

When will they open S3? I thought it was "december".


----------



## michal_OMB

planned date this 22.12.2010


----------



## michael_siberia

Sasza said:


> There is no importance to build A2 to the Belarus border because traffic to Belarus is so poor.


So poor? Quite interesting sentence.
One of the 2035 forecasts shows over 32k AADT at the interchange with S19 (in 2020 - over 20k on whole section between Warsaw and S19).

Source:
http://siskom.waw.pl/autostrady/a2/warszawa-kukuryki/a2_w-wa-kuk_ros_rys_prog-ruch_w-1.pdf

More:
http://siskom.waw.pl/a2-warszawa-kukuryki.htm


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

michael_siberia said:


> So poor? Quite interesting sentence.
> One of the 2035 forecasts shows over 32k AADT at the interchange with S19 (in 2020 - over 20k on whole section between Warsaw and S19).
> 
> Source:
> http://siskom.waw.pl/autostrady/a2/warszawa-kukuryki/a2_w-wa-kuk_ros_rys_prog-ruch_w-1.pdf
> 
> More:
> http://siskom.waw.pl/a2-warszawa-kukuryki.htm


While reading pdf's with AADT please notice the difference between volumes for high, low and no toll.


----------



## michal_OMB

*[S7] Skarżysko Kamienna - Kielce*

photos by orcio of November


----------



## mr.cool

http://www.poland.pl/news/article,N...th_Russia_To_Be_Opened_Tomorrow,id,450188.htm

Anyone got any pictures to show this? Where abouts in Poland does this cross?


----------



## kooba

It's on S22 Elbląg-Grzechotki road. Pictures here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=68252371&postcount=963


----------



## toonczyk

New, revised strategy for road construction in years 2011-2015 was released today. In short: we should not expect any new contracts, most tenders already underway will probably be canceled. Except for roads already U/C, until 2013 only A1 Stryków-Tuszyn (Łódź-Piotrków Trybunalski) and S8 Wrocław-Łódź will be built. According to the document, this is how our expressway and motorway network is going to look like on 31.12.2013 (black - ready, green - U/C, white - our grandchildren will see those):









Financial crisis caught up with us.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Still, 2013 is only 2 years away. Even with a temporary break, Poland is still constructing at the speed of lightning compared to other countries.


----------



## and802

^^



and802 said:


> I went to Polish infrastructure SSC forum to ask this question - but it was deleted (no idea why)
> 
> so maybe I will be more lucky with international one.
> 
> do we have / do you know a detailed plan for road infrastructure construction once we hit 2013 ?
> 
> my opinion is we do know exactly what we want to achieve by the end of 2012, but once we finish our euro 2012 schedule, there is no detail plan for further development.
> 
> could you please comment on that or rather open my eyes ?


toonczyk, thanks for your information. this is actually we we had to expect, but we needed somebody to be the first one to annouce it.

for me it was clear months ago we will not expand our road infrstructure plans behind Euro 2012.

shit ...


----------



## Nowax

[S8] Warsaw (Konotopa - Powązkowska) Photos by matrix4321 :cheers:


----------



## jtybinka

toonczyk said:


> New, revised strategy for road construction in years 2011-2015 was released today. In short: we should not expect any new contracts, most tenders already underway will probably be canceled
> ....................
> 
> Financial crisis caught up with us.



what about the money from the EU funds from the budget 2008-2013 ?
are we going to not use that money (what means waste money) ?


----------



## GrimFadango

^^AFAIK it means lower dept. I belive that we could find funds in some different parts of budget, but it might be to painfull for some certain areas of budget-related wages. Still, tons of paperwork is behind us, so Poland should do as much as it is possible to finish already started projects, but with 'leave them as you find them' slogan on our flags.

At least we already have better roads than Lithuanians :yes:


----------



## and802

GrimFadango said:


> ...
> At least we already have better roads than Lithuanians :yes:


be careful what you wrote. I am sure Lithuanian collegues can present statistics, where Poland looks bad in comparison with Lithuania - km motorways per capita ? I do not know, definately there are some.

I prefer to compare us to Zimbabwe, at least I am sure all statistics belong to us


----------



## ChrisZwolle

and802 said:


> I prefer to compare us to Zimbabwe, at least I am sure all statistics belong to us


In all seriousness, Zimbabwe was one of the wealthiest countries of Africa in the 1990's, and probably had a (much) better road network than Poland in those days... They've neglected it over the past decade though...


----------



## and802

ChrisZwolle said:


> In all seriousness, Zimbabwe was one of the wealthiest countries of Africa in the 1990's, and probably had a (much) better road network than Poland in those days... They've neglected it over the past decade though...


no, you are wrong, even in nineties Polish infrastructure was easier to accept. do not forget whities lost power in 1980, and since then Robert M. started ruling the country in his way. anyway I can hardly remember any potholes-free highway 1996.


----------



## lukaszek89

S1 is blocked. About 40 cars took part in multiple crash:


----------



## lukaszek89

other sources say about 70-80 cars


----------



## mcarling

toonczyk said:


> New, revised strategy for road construction in years 2011-2015 was released today. In short: we should not expect any new contracts, most tenders already underway will probably be canceled. Except for roads already U/C, until 2013 only A1 Stryków-Tuszyn (Łódź-Piotrków Trybunalski) and S8 Wrocław-Łódź will be built.





jtybinka said:


> what about the money from the EU funds from the budget 2008-2013 ?
> are we going to not use that money (what means waste money) ?


The 2008-2013 EU funds will not be available after 2013, so the plan is to spend them by 2013 on the projects already approved.

No doubt any projects funded by the EU in the 2013-2018 regional development budget will be built. The Polish government will not leave such funds on the table. With so much EU funding for Poland in the current (2008-2013) budget, I don't expect there to be a lot for Poland in the 2013-2018 budget, but I'm confident there will be something (for example, perhaps S8 Via Baltica between Warsaw and Bialystok and/or perhaps S19 from the LT border to the SK border). There are obviously many other possibilities depending on the priorities of Poland and neighbouring EU member states, such as, for example S69 to the SK border.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't think the EU will not be co-funding projects after 2013. Poland will still be a net receiver for the next couple of years beyond 2013. Spain didn't became a net payer until the late 2000's.


----------



## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> I don't think the EU will not be co-funding projects after 2013. Poland will still be a net receiver for the next couple of years beyond 2013. Spain didn't became a net payer until the late 2000's.


Spain only became a net payer as a consequence of the accession of Bulgaria and Romania. The next accession round (looks like Croatia and Iceland) cannot possibly turn Poland into a net payer. Poland will remain a net recipient of EU regional development (and CAP) funds at least until the following accession round (probably Albania, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro, and Serbia) -- though not at the magnitude of 2008-2013.


----------



## bleetz

Lithuania definitely has a more adequate road infrastructure than Poland, no doubt about that. Poland has caught up massively recently but we are still significantly ahead overall. New Polish motorways are nicer than Lithuanian motorways, there simply aren't enough of them yet, not to mention that you have to pay for them.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yep, many Lithuanian A-roads, which connect all larger cities, are expressway-like roads, with high design standards. Though it has to be mentioned traffic is probably less in Lithuania than it is in Poland, so the road network is more easily adequate than it is in Poland.


----------



## Chris80678

Are we still on track to see the S8 (Konotopa-PT), A8 
(stage 1 of Wrocław bypass) and A1 (Bełk-Świerklany) all open for use on the 
15th Dec 2010 or have their openings been postponed until 22nd Dec 2010 or moved back to an even later date?


----------



## Beck's

Actually I don't know. I will be following threads


----------



## and802

good day,


since the EU budget beyond 2013 is not reconciled, what do you think about Warsaw part of S7 ? 

now it is at "DSU" stage. do you think the project will be delayed ?

PS 

it was not my initial intension to go to international forum to ask it, firstly I went to Polish forum, but my post was deleted without any notice. looks like a moderator of Polish forum is not able to say/explain anything. I hope he will never reach the point to be a representative of Poland anywhere, 'cause I am a Pole and I get used to that, but foreigners will not.


----------



## mcarling

and802 said:


> since the EU budget beyond 2013 is not reconciled, what do you think about Warsaw part of S7 ?


I don't expect it to be a top priority for the EU.


----------



## and802

definately it is not on the priority list.

let me rephase the question:

does it (no reconciled EU budget beyond 2013) mean we stop all "DSU" projects ?

I do hope (although it does not mean I do not believe) toonczyk is somehow wrong with his information ...


----------



## mcarling

The EU will approve a regional development budget for 2013-2018. Some of the money in that budget will be for building roads in Poland. The Polish government will almost certainly then approve the rest of the funds needed to build whichever roads are partially funded by the EU.

I hope that answers your question. If not, please ask again.


----------



## and802

thanks for your reply.

let me go back to my first question. 

I was worried that the construction of S7 in Warsaw would be delayed, because the EU budget is not ready. 

do you agree with that ?


----------



## mcarling

and802 said:


> I was worried that the construction of S7 in Warsaw would be delayed, because the EU budget is not ready.
> 
> do you agree with that ?


Yes and no. I agree that the S7 will probably be delayed, but not because of the EU budget (which is not late). I would blame it on the general financial crisis.


----------



## bigalowski

any updates on the DK8 Wroclaw direction Wien?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I'm in favor of the Strecke 88 revival:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strecke_88


----------



## Surel

^^From the czech point of view it is not really the most important motorway...

If somoene else wants to pay it, I am for it too


----------



## Mateusz

ChrisZwolle said:


> I'm in favor of the Strecke 88 revival:
> 
> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strecke_88


According to a study from 2009, it's one of the options. Lower Silesian Voivodeship wants to extend S5 to Międzylesie (or Kudowa but it doesn't make much sense really). In far future obviously.


----------



## Blaskovitz

Mateusz said:


> According to a study from 2009, it's one of the options. Lower Silesian Voivodeship wants to extend S5 to Międzylesie (or Kudowa but it doesn't make much sense really). In far future obviously.




or S8 to Czech border.


----------



## Surel

I would too much rather see the R35 and D11 completed on the czech side. It doesnt really matter if the D11 connects on the polish network around Trutnov or Nachod. I think in the long term it is both possible from both Polish and Czech side. Currently the planned route goest around Nachod if I am not mistaken.

R43 doesnt really have any priority and even reason, certainly not before R35 is constructed and runnig.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I agree, Czech R35 is much more urgent than R43, however in terms of European integration, the revival of Strecke 88 is a very good project that could be financed by the European Union.


----------



## Surel

I am not against that. Whoever may send there euros. Germans, Dutch, French... as long as it is build . No, seriously, I think that the EU financing of the motorways in CZ is bit unclear to me. The main transit or seem to be connecting border sections are low priority finance from EU and others... Don't know if it is the RSD, ministry, or generally EU problem.

When you click on this , you get google translated page of RSD which explains the EU funds in czech road construction. Pay attention to the map picture (click on it and get this pdf). The red marked sections are co-financed by the EU. This hold for framework 2008-2013. They mention there 5.7 bln Euro over these five years, but I dont think that went into the roads. There might be also railway in it. But this is cooking from water. When I went to the tables of the project supports on constructions was totalled around 3 bln Euros.

Indeed when I look at the map I wonder what do they do wrong at the ministry. Is it really so hard to go to the EU commision with simple idea of finishing D3 towards Austria and D11 towards Poland and R49 towards Slovakia???? 

The lenght of these three sections should not be higher than cca 270 km. If we take more than generous price of 20 ml Euro per km on average it would totall 5.4 bln Euro for the whole of 270 km. Lets round it to 6 bln. WHAT DO I MISS HERE???

I mean, why are not these 270 km planned for construction with help of EU financing for the next framework 2014-2019. Their reasoning would be so simple especially with the EU. If the financing was at least 60 % from EU, the 2.4 bln Euro would be easy to get for the co financing from the czech budget on these projects (over five years). There would be even enough left for finishing the Prague's ring.... and some other projects...

No I will never understand this money black hole and incompentence that rules the political world.


PS: some MOD could move our discussion to the czech or whatever section if the polish thread is too narrow for this. Thank you.


----------



## Mateusz

Blaskovitz said:


> or S8 to Czech border.


Actually S8 can be extended up to Jelenia Góra only. Motorway / expressway proposals to Jakuszyce were dropped since A3/S3 is planned to Lubawka. 

But don't get too excited. These are only internal proposals of voivodeship. GDDKiA will look at it maybe after 2020. S8 extention from Wrocław to Bolków stands a much better chance.

Even if these expressways will not be extened, it's still a good idea to change some numbering in Lower Silesia.


----------



## Rusonaldo

Winter in Poland


----------



## Blaskovitz

Watch out ! New police cars! :cheers:














































About cars:



> http://translate.googleusercontent....&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhiEaWGB88itxe-66nPIM0uoev8Pkg


+ nice film but in Polish.


----------



## michael_siberia

A1 Bełk-Rowień is opened to traffic:


Ytcchak said:


> No i wszystko jasne - autostrada już otwarta do węzła Rowień (godz. 15:30)
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV1pZyWy2qg
> 
> Przepraszam za jakość - nagranie spontaniczne


And track in Bing:
http://www.bing.com/maps/#JmNwPTUwL...yMFBvbGFuZF9fX2FfJm1vZGU9RCZydG9wPTB+MH4wfg==


----------



## LMB

and802 said:


> Dear Moderator,
> 
> could you please delete last "msz2" messages ?


_Hey, that would be too far. Let's just not feed the troll, and enjoy ourselves._

Added: Troll has gone overboard, admins please cage this specimen.


----------



## jtybinka

Timon91 said:


> A question guys: what is the current situation on the A4 between Jedrzychowice and Kraków? Is it snow-free? I'm going to Kraków this weekend so I'd like to know, thanks in advance


ok, today A4 Sosnica - Wroclaw very good road no snow at all , just black asphalt but Wroclaw - Legnica weather changed rapidly it was snowing and it was slidy - people were driving even 50-60 km/h on some sections


----------



## Timon91

Thanks for the tips everyone! Still we have decided to cancel the trip because of the risky weather conditions. As we hadn't booked anything it's no big deal to cancel it.


----------



## Blaskovitz

Newest map


----------



## michal_OMB

^^ 
green - excisting
red - in construction


----------



## msz2

LMB said:


> Finally. Those numbers are amazing.:cheers:


So totally we have 1353 highway under construction, real succes, especially compared to Spain which has approximately the same number under construction and over 14000km existing motorway.


----------



## bogdymol

msz2 said:


> So totally we have 1353 highway under construction, real succes, especially compared to *Spain* which has approximately the same number under construction and over *14000km existing motorway*.


14000 km of existing motorways in Spain? I really doubt about that...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's true though


----------



## bogdymol

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's true though


I just searched on the web and OMG! 13,872 km of autovias and autopistas in Spain. I tought that only Germany has about that much in Europe...

Good job Spain!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^



> A 31 de diciembre de 2007 la red de vías de alta capacidad estaba compuesta por 14.689 km


On December 31st, 2007, the network of high-capacity roads consisted of 14.689 km. 

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopistas_y_autovías_de_Espana

Some of these are not really motorways, but most are. Nearly all dual carriageways in Spain are grade-separated.


----------



## PLH

*To all Polish (and not only) users not visiting Infrastruktura drogowa:

Here you can sign various petitions to Ministry of Infrastructure in order not to cancel all 45 tenders, as it is planned.*


----------



## LMB

msz2 said:


> So totally we have 1353 highway under construction, real succes, especially compared to Spain which has approximately the same number under construction and over 14000km existing motorway.


You come from the poorest area of EU25 (that is, before Romania and Bulgaria joined), and you are really NOT in the position to complain. 

Beggars can't be choosers.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

How long is a DSU valid? In the Netherlands it's 10 years.


----------



## bebe.2006

Warsaw West/Konotopa U/C. Right A2 to Lodz, left S2, down S8:



kozaist said:


> Jeżeli w centralnym punkcie zdjęcia jest Konotopa to chyba najbardziej tu pasuje, aczkolwiek fragmenty S8 i S2 siłą rzeczy też widać
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zdjęcie z 3 grudnia.
> ________
> KOzaist


3th December.


----------



## and802

msz2 said:


> So totally we have 1353 highway under construction, real succes, especially compared to Spain which has approximately the same number under construction and over 14000km existing motorway.


msz2 is right.

I want to be compared to rich/well-developed countries.


----------



## delfin_pl

Table with motorways and expressways (1363,1km U/C), middle column - remaining days to opening.


----------



## Deo

^^ cool! :cheers:


----------



## msz2

LMB said:


> Hey, that would be too far. Let's just not feed the troll, and enjoy ourselves.


You are the troll, my posts are according the topic (without the money you won't build even 1 km of new motorway).


----------



## Chris80678

Merry Christmas to everyone. Boze Narodzenie
Looking forward to seeing the S8 in Warsaw open. Warsaw will finally have a dual carriageway expressway outer ring road - the first step to a complete expressway outer ring road


----------



## msz2

Chris80678 said:


> Merry Christmas to everyone. Boze Narodzenie
> Looking forward to seeing the S8 in Warsaw open. Warsaw will finally have a dual carriageway expressway outer ring road - the first step to a complete expressway outer ring road


Marry Christmas (not Exmass) to you as well.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No Christmas highway openings this year?


----------



## michal_OMB

ChrisZwolle said:


> No Christmas highway openings this year?


no  but S3 Myślibórz - Gorzów Wkp will be open in 30.12


----------



## msz2

michal_OMB said:


> no  but S3 Myślibórz - Gorzów Wkp will be open in 30.12


How many kilometers?


----------



## bogdymol

msz2 said:


> How many kilometers?


According to this post 26,7 km


----------



## Warsaw spectator

michal_OMB said:


> ChrisZwolle said:
> 
> 
> 
> No Christmas highway openings this year?
> 
> 
> 
> no  but S3 Myślibórz - Gorzów Wkp will be open in 30.12
Click to expand...

Maybe they will cope with bureaucracy at S8 in Warsaw. Hope they will.


----------



## msz2

http://gorzow.gazeta.pl/gorzow/1,35..._ekspresowce_S3__Szczecin_blizej_Gorzowa.html


----------



## Chris80678

So no news yet of opening date for S8 in Warsaw yet? - 30.12 perhaps?


----------



## Beck's

msz2 said:


> So totally we have 1353 highway under construction, real succes, especially compared to Spain which has approximately the same number under construction and over 14000km existing motorway.


For us is success, because we have aproximately 1300 km. of existing motorways and expressways(2x2). Moreover It will have been suposed to be 2800-3000 km. such theese roads by the end of 2013
. :cheers:



LMB said:


> You come from the poorest area of EU25 (that is, before Romania and Bulgaria joined), and you are really NOT in the position to complain.
> 
> Beggars can't be choosers.


Now we are not the poorest. We are richer than Baltic states and comparable to Hungary


----------



## seszele

Beck's said:


> For us is success, because we have aproximately 1300 km. of existing motorways and expressways(2x2). Moreover It will have been suposed to be 2800-3000 km. such theese roads by the end of 2013
> . :cheers:
> 
> 
> 
> Now we are not the poorest. We are richer than Baltic states and comparable to Hungary




However GDP/ GNP is not that exactly about how rich we are, but rather how much we produced in one year.This case the last one.



msz2 said:


> So totally we have 1353 highway under construction, real succes, especially compared to Spain which has approximately the same number under construction and over 14000km existing motorway.


Anyway apart from the fact of potential difference between Spain and Poland I think you make a mistake comparing what we are planning in Poland today(result will -or maybe wont come in 3 -4 years) to what Spain just finished.Let's see what spanish will open in 3-4 years from today. I bet it will be limited as much as in any other country in Europe.

Other question is why Spain opens many times more motorways than we do today.. Spain is a member of EU since 1986. I think it serves for an answer well.

The really bed point is that we are choosing not always the right roads to be finished now(S7 in risk of big delay).But I would't dare to start any storm here among people from different regions of Poland


----------



## msz2

^^How many kilometer was opened in Spain during last 3 year - this Chris probably knows.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Not much compared to 2000 - 2007. Maybe 500 - 1000 kms.


----------



## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> Not much compared to 2000 - 2007. Maybe 500 - 1000 kms.


Until 1 May 2004, Spain was among the poorer of the 15 EU member states. Following 1 May 2004, Spain was among the richer of the 25 (later 27) EU member states. That's why Spain used to receive a bigger share of EU regional development funds and now receives a smaller share. Similarly, from 1 May 2004 to 1 January 2007 (accession of Bulgaria and Romania), Poland was among the poorer EU member states but is now nearer the middle, so Poland will probably get less EU regional development funding in the future than in the past.


----------



## Jedrzej

Beck's said:


> Now we are not the poorest. We are richer than Baltic states and comparable to Hungary


According to the data for 2010 which you can find here we are richer than Bulgaria, Romania, Latvia, Lithuamia, Estonia and Hungary itself :cheers:


----------



## and802

Jedrzej said:


> According to the data for 2010 which you can find here we are richer than Bulgaria, Romania, Latvia, Lithuamia, Estonia and Hungary itself :cheers:


this is not true. we are on the same level with the countries you mentioned.

let us take an example:

what is the difference if you have got 1020 PLN and I have got 1060 PLN ? can you spot/feel the difference ? does it make me richer than you ? well according to mathematics it is true, but reality writes different story ... 


if you want to say the average Pole is richer (noticeably) than ... then try some African nation (guys from Africa - no offence).


----------



## Jedrzej

You have some problems? Statistically we are richer than those countries and yes, it is true. Even if you are richer than somebody else because you earn 1 zł more you can say and it will be true that you are richer than this person. Not to mention that what I have posted are the amounts for GDP per person, not the average salary. And we are not at the same level as Romania or Bulgaria or as far as I know Latvia. Travel more maybe? 
And you must have some problems or you really do not appreciate Poland at all. If you like it or not, Poland is one of the richest countries in the World, one of the 42 countries listed as "developed countries" what you can see here and to see poorer country you don't have to travel to Africa, it'll be enough if you travel to Ukraine.


----------



## rakcancer

please guys, this discussion is a bit embarrassing. nobody from outside cares.


----------



## and802

Jedrzej said:


> You have some problems? Statistically we are richer than those countries and yes, it is true. Even if you are richer than somebody else because you earn 1 zł more you can say and it will be true that you are richer than this person. Not to mention that what I have posted are the amounts for GDP per person, not the average salary. And we are not at the same level as Romania or Bulgaria or as far as I know Latvia. Travel more maybe?
> And you must have some problems or you really do not appreciate Poland at all. If you like it or not, Poland is one of the richest countries in the World, one of the 42 countries listed as "developed countries" what you can see here and to see poorer country you don't have to travel to Africa, it'll be enough if you travel to Ukraine.



just relax,

it was not my intention to get you expressed in that way.


as regards travel: 
I spent 2 years in Bulgaria/Estonia/Ukraine and 6 years outside Europe.


----------



## mcarling

The important thing is not how Poland ranks relative to other countries. The important thing is the rate of improvement.


----------



## LMB

No comments about the long-awaited increase of top speed on Poland's motorways? Wyborcza (once a leading "newspaper of opinion", wouldn't call it that anymore) has already published an article about how "tragic" this is going to be. 

OMG, what is awaiting us?


----------



## jwojcie

LMB said:


> No comments about the long-awaited increase of top speed on Poland's motorways? [...]
> OMG, what is awaiting us?


Hm... maybe this  :





:lol:


----------



## and802

this is slightly off-topic information (not my first one)

anyway,

I have just got the newest audi navigation disc (2011 edition) - already on sale.

can you imagine how much I am surprised with it ?

the south stretch of A1 starts in Wozniki (near Czestochowa) and goes all down to Czech border. other words according to Navteq (disc vendor) this route exists and a nav unit calculates trips based on non-existting roads.

as I understand the present situation near Wozniki is different what Navteq presents. near Wozniki there is nothing more than some sand which in no-so-closed-future will be utilized for A1. 

what is more I understand there are some gaps from Wozniki to Czech border, but according to Audi (Navteq) you can take it as preffered road.

there are some other roads already marked as existing, which unfortunately exist only in Navteq data masters' minds. Warsaw part of S8 is another example, but this would be opened soon ...

anyway,

funny thing is that 5 years ago I reported Navteq some inconsistences with the roads close to my place and still they are not corrected, on the other hand Navteq guys reproduce maps which would be valid no earlier then 3 years from now.

last thing,
Poles would not take the proposed route (calculated by the nav unit) seriously, but I am not so sure of foreigners (unless they are ssc infrastructure readers)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Can anyone visualize on a map for me which section of A8 around Wroclaw opened exactly? I think it is from the southern end (DK8 near Magnice) to the Airport (Granicza road), but I'm not sure.


----------



## Mateusz

No way Chris, it's only opened up to A4.


----------



## michael_siberia

TSW signed:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=69744287&postcount=1881


----------



## Warsaw spectator

Film from opened section of S8 Wrocław Bypass



mierzwi1999 said:


> Relacja wideo z otwarcia odcinka
> 18297661


----------



## Robotsx

A8 to the airport is going to be opened in January. This short section, to the A4, is a kind off a New Year surprise


----------



## LMB

jwojcie said:


> Hm... maybe this  :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lol:


Quite correct! 88mph = 143km/h :lol:


----------



## Matz32Z

S3 open


----------



## Chris80678

Good going Poland! Two new stretches of expressways open before the end of 2010 (S8 & S3). Looking forward to many more openings in 2011.
Happy New Year everybody


----------



## Blaskovitz

^^ A8.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

S8:


----------



## michal_OMB

^^ but this is A8


----------



## PLH

A8 is closer to Wrocław.


----------



## Chris80678

Let's be clear about this: The A8 starts/ends at the interchange with the A4
goes past Wroclaw's airport, over the Oder river, past Wroclaw's northern suburbs and ends at the E67 on the eastern edge of the city.
It is crystal clear from the video that the newly opened stretch of road from Magnice to the A4 motorway is expressway and not motorway as it clearly says on the road sign S8 E67 not A8 E67
25th Jan 2011 is when the A8 from the A4 to Wroclaw's airport is going to open


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Do you know if and where A8 will be tolled?


----------



## seem

> *TAK* dla dozwolonych 130 na drogach ekspresowych


Why there is not 130 km/h speed limit on your expressways? 

Btw, happy new year to Poland and Polish people up there a few km from where I am now.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No,

as of today:

S = 110
A = 130

as of tomorrow:

S = 120
A = 140

what Matz32Z wants:

S = 130
A = 160


----------



## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> Do you know if and where A8 will be tolled?


No, it definitely won't be tolled.


----------



## Martin KV

Hi all,
can someone provide an overview, how many km of highways is planned in Poland for all highways in total to be complete? 
And how it looks like at the moment (how many km is completed now)?

Thanks a lot,
Martin


----------



## ChrisZwolle

michael_siberia said:


> TSW signed:
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=69744287&postcount=1881


What is this exactly? Some kind of petition to keep a road project from disappearing?


----------



## toonczyk

Why aren't you celebrating, Chris? 

It's no petition, actual contract for this very short section of TSW has been signed. The biggest part of this contract is the "Salomea" interchange, without it two major city projects already under way (Łopuszańska interchange and Nowolazurowa) would make little sense, so that is partly very good news. Bad news is, despite what some media are claiming, this is not solving a problem of current DK7/8 through Raszyn. We'll probably have to wait some 3-4 years for the whole TSW to be built.

Interesting thing - Eurovia agreed to open this section of S8 (well, whatever number it's gonna get when it's open, probably not S8) for traffic in may 2012. So basically they will have to build a rather large junction in about a year.


----------



## ufonut

Green - under construction
Red - financing secured, contract signed, construction will begin in a month
Blue - under construction
Orange - planned extension, next stage


----------



## E2rdEm

The official picture set of S-3 Szczecin - Gorzów Wielkopolski:

http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/userfiles/articles/1/zdjecia_szn/S3_w_obiektywie.pdf

Lots of aerials. kay:


----------



## hammersklavier

^^ Nice pictures, pity I don't understand any Polish. (I'm an embarrassment to my ethnicity.) It's at full motorway standards? Wow!


----------



## Chris80678

hammersklavier said:


> ^^ Nice pictures, pity I don't understand any Polish. (I'm an embarrassment to my ethnicity.) It's at full motorway standards? Wow!


Yes, the entire S3 from Szczecin to Gorzów Wlkp is essentially of motorway standard with two lanes on each carriageway and limited interchanges.
I'm loving the colourful and beautifully designed viaducts in the photos - it gives drivers some break in the monotiny of the flat countryside around the expressway


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Are there any traffic fatality statistics available for 2010 yet?


----------



## E2rdEm

Wait about a week for the full 2010 statistics.

Statistics until 11/2010 is available: ~10% less fatalities than in 2009.


----------



## TheFlyPL

Martin KV said:


> Hi all,
> can someone provide an overview, how many km of highways is planned in Poland for all highways in total to be complete?
> And how it looks like at the moment (how many km is completed now)?
> 
> Thanks a lot,
> Martin


U/C: 1354 km
In Use: 1602 km
Planned: 7237 km (2000km - motorway, 5237 - expressway)

These data dose not include S3 opened a few days ago.


----------



## Random_Guy

Pretty big pile-up has happened today on A4 in Gliwice. Apparently, the cars have driven into a really thick fog and the drivers couldn't control them becuase of the ice.

It is said that at least 40 cars participated. 2 people died, 5 heavily injured were taken to the hospital.

Some pictures from onet.pl: 

http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/kiosk/kraj/wielki-karambol-na-a4,4096794,8380882,fotoreportaz-maly.html#photo8380660


----------



## mr.cool

This is ridiculous! 

Something should be done to warn motorists in these adverse weather conditions and if there was black ice then where the f**k were the gritters? All well and good Poland building great motorways but if there's no safety or warning in place then whats the point at all!!


----------



## Sasza

Whole problem is not because ice, not because fog etc etc etc but because of drivers. They see good road and think "hey it is soo good so I can travel as fast as they allow me in any weather conditions" and this pile-up is just result.
IT IS WINTER and for the hell, we've got eyes and one of the reasons why we could have drivers licence since we've been 18 is that we shouldn't expect that someone will always help us. (Or tell us somenthing like "Hey there is a lot of snow and ice and yeasterday temperature was above zero so today road is probably slippery". Insane!)


----------



## Matz32Z

DTS in Katowice 






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E37ooXbY3Sg

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...50.269799,18.982036&spn=0.004176,0.01134&z=17


----------



## Warsawbynight

There should be a Safety Car which would pick up the drivers and force them to follow him in such conditions


----------



## Indyk

E2rdEm said:


> The official picture set of S-3 Szczecin - Gorzów Wielkopolski:
> 
> http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/userfiles/articles/1/zdjecia_szn/S3_w_obiektywie.pdf
> 
> Lots of aerials. kay:


The guy that chooses colors for those viaducts needs to be shot.


----------



## Indyk

mr.cool said:


> This is ridiculous!
> 
> Something should be done to warn motorists in these adverse weather conditions and if there was black ice then where the f**k were the gritters? All well and good Poland building great motorways but if there's no safety or warning in place then whats the point at all!!


Absolutely. Someone should tell the drivers to turn on their brains on. 
Just last week I was driving down that stretch of the A4 in fog, 80 km/h tops and only because I could see the fog light of the car in front and some idiot passed with around 140 km/h.


----------



## Praktykteoretyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> Do you know if and where A8 will be tolled?





PLH said:


> No, it definitely won't be tolled.


It turned out that it will be tolled. Never trust politicians!


----------



## mr.cool

There should be a speed limit in these wintry conditions, i.e - 100kmph. And if they speed and cause an accident, then they should be banned for life, it goes without doubt that it shouldn't come to the point where people are being killed for these idiots and they get away with murder, then only to say it was bad weather bla bla bla, no excuse whatsoever. 

Who ever caused this accident should be banned for life too, as anyone with common sense would drive slowly and safely.


----------



## mcarling

Warsawbynight said:


> There should be a Safety Car which would pick up the drivers and force them to follow him in such conditions


... and someone posted at every corner to tell us when it's safe to cross the street.


----------



## jtybinka

Wojewoda of Dolny Slask spoke to Minister Grabarczyk last Wednesday and he said he is very optimistic about money for S5 Wroclaw - Poznan.
There are lot of EU money that PLK is not able to use to reconstruct railways
becasue PLK don`t have ready enough projects and it`s possible to use
that money for expressways , he said today there is 4 miliard but
it can grow even to 9 miliard zloty


----------



## Miguel_PL

jtybinka said:


> Wojewoda of Dolny Slask spoke to Minister Grabarczyk last Wednesday and he said he is very optimistic about money for S5 Wroclaw - Poznan.
> There are lot of EU money that PLK is not able to use to reconstruct railways
> becasue PLK don`t have ready enough projects and it`s possible to use
> that money for expressways , he said today there is 4 miliard but
> it can grow even to 9 miliard zloty


'Miliard' ... - there is no such a word in English. It's billion


----------



## Fuzzy Llama

^^ Oh, threre is. It's just not used since 1974 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales


----------



## jtybinka

Last edited by jtybinka; Today at 02:31 PM. Reason: billion 

see the note above

I wrote billion but then I changed it for miliard,
Miliard is wrong but we all forumers are sure what money we are talking about, with billion is not so clear


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The term "milliard" is used in just about any language except English. I never understood why they say "billion" when all Romanic, Germanic, Slavic and many other languages talk about "milliard" or a local variant.


----------



## sotonsi

It's those Americans, and their influence has corrupted the whole Anglosphere with billion.

That said, while most older Brits know that billion used to mean a million million, I've never heard one say "we used to say millard" - in fact I haven't come across the term at all in English - perhaps if I read some 50+ year old broadsheet newspapers I might find it.

As far as I can see, it was rare to use it and a bit confusing to have 1-ion, 1-ard, 2-ion, 2-ard as you make things 1000 times bigger (and then a trillion being a million billion - the million, billion, trillion with the form of 10^(6*x) with the x becoming the prefix to use). So once American English got heard a lot here, we copied them, leaping at the chance to use the short scale, rather than deal with two suffixes.

There you go Chris - millard was rarely used in Britain anyway, the Americans had ditched it for the short scale, which was found to be simpler and then Britain found that billion and the short scale usage in the ex-colonies was a good idea, so ditched the tradition and went with the short scale. English being a fluid language with conventions, not rules, completely allows that to happen, almost to the point of endorsing new meanings for words as time moves on.


----------



## Rusonaldo

S3 Expressway Gorzów - Myślibórz


----------



## TheFlyPL

Rusonaldo said:


> S3 Expressway Gorzów - Myślibórz


So empty...

I don't understand why those roads are not "autostrada". I know technically but it's nonsense.


----------



## michal_OMB

^^ i agree with you


----------



## and802

rakcancer said:


> Is this thread dying? Is anybody there!?


there is nothing we can talk about.
we can easily put it off until we find some money for road infrastructure. 2013 ?


----------



## Coccodrillo

TheFlyPL said:


> I don't understand why those roads are not "autostrada". I know technically but it's nonsense.


I don't understand why some european countries invented a classification between a national road and a motorway. This is quite illogic especially in small countries like Slovenia, that has roads A1 to A4 and H1 to H4: why? A1 to A8 would have been less confusing in my opinion.

The same happens in Austria, where the same road change number: A14+S16+A12, or S6+S36+S37.


----------



## Chris80678

Does anybody know why the S8 in Warsaw hasn't opened yet? :bash: 
From the pics on its website it looks completely finished with signs at the interchanges and everything :cheers: When will it open? (if ever!) There are rumours that there are problems with settling agreements with buying the land or something through which the S8 passes


----------



## toonczyk

It will definitely be ready for traffic in January, but no sooner than 18th. There are some formal problems as well as quality deficiencies. This road has cost us over 50 million euros per kilometer, yet we now find out it wasn't even built properly. Here are some photos if you fancy:
http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/index.php/...ia-wykonawcy-trasy-ekspresowej-s8-w-warszawie

Oh, and a fun fact: many drivers already use it illegaly, since there are no hard barriers on entrances


----------



## AlexisMD

toonczyk said:


> This road has cost us over 50 million euros per kilometer,


with random gold pieces in asphalt ?


----------



## MAG

Chris80678 said:


> Does anybody know why the S8 in Warsaw hasn't opened yet?


Mainly due to quality issues - see the pictures in Toonczyk's link. 
I am really surprised that the contractors (and site supervision?) thought they could get away with such shoddy workmanship. 
It's not like any of it is subtle! hno:

The road will be open in approximately 2-3 weeks, weather and bureaucracy permitting.




toonczyk said:


> ... Oh, and a fun fact: many drivers already use it illegaly ...


It'll take another generation or two for some things to change.



.


----------



## Blaskovitz

AlexisMD said:


> with random gold pieces in asphalt ?




Asphalt in this road is very bed... very low quality. Another scandal and now nobody know when this road will open hno:


photos...

http://biznes.onet.pl/fuszerka-na-t...19,1,fotoreportaze-detal-galeria#photo8484307

*
Bad news... * http://translate.google.pl/translat...nku-s8,18493,4105844,3219548,194,1,news-detal


----------



## Tornadoli

So why exactly was the S8 section in Warsaw so expensive then?


----------



## toonczyk

There is a possibility of price fixing, an investigation is underway. But the cost per km had to be high due to urban environment and high concentration of structures like bridges, retaining walls etc. Usually on a 10km stretch of motorway (or expressway) you would probably get around 10 bridges, here we have over 20, plus quite a few stretches below the surface etc. Not to mention collisions with existing infrastructure... I think it would be possible to build it cheaper by at most 20%.


----------



## kooba

Tornadoli said:


> So why exactly was the S8 section in Warsaw so expensive then?


At least two reasons:

1) main contractors start together in tender
2) due to highly urbanize location


----------



## bebe.2006

A6 near Szczecin. For me the first picture I see with 140 km/h after the speed limits have been change:



pmaciej7 said:


>


----------



## wyqtor

bebe.2006 said:


> A6 near Szczecin. For me the first picture I see with 140 km/h after the speed limits have been change:


Is Poland the only country in Europe right now that has speed limits higher than 130 km/h?


----------



## bogdymol

wyqtor said:


> Is Poland the only country in Europe right now that has speed limits higher than 130 km/h?


Only in Germany you can drive with more than 130 km/h on autobahns, besides Poland where the limit is 140 km/h from now on.

There might be an autostrada section in Italy where they raised the speed limit to 160 km/h but I don't remember if there were only talks about that or they really did it.


----------



## toonczyk

No way, it will be ready by the end of 2013.


----------



## LMB

toonczyk said:


> There are unmarked police cars designated especially for patrolling motorways in Poland.


...in cars of the YETI brand? (Yeti: much spoken about, never seen :lol

Seriously, has any of you ever witnessed anybody being pulled over? 

(for the record, it doesn't mean that highways in Poland are dangerous)


----------



## toonczyk

^^ I've seen one (police Megane on A2), there are lots of them.

Some incredible shots of S8 in Warsaw by *Kuras77*. The road will most likely be opened tomorrow (Tuesday) evening.


Kuras77 said:


> Ciąg dalszy mojej dzisiejszej eskapady rowerowej po S8
> 
> Wiadukt w ciągu ul.Lazurowej (widok w stronę Konotopy):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kładka a w oddali wiadukt w ciągu ul.Powstańców Śląskich (widok w stronę Konotopy):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wiadukt w ciągu ul.Dywizjonu 303:
> 
> 
> 
> I widziany z drugiej strony (widok w stronę Konotopy):
> 
> 
> 
> I z dalszej perspektywy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wiadukt w ciągu ul.Księcia Janusza:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I jeszcze fota w drugą stronę - to niebo mnie hipnotyzuje...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wiadukt z bliska:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ponownie ten sam wiadukt widziany od strony węzła Prymasa Tysiąclecia:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> W stronę owego węzła:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I węzeł Prymasa Tysiąclecia w pełnej krasie:
> 
> 
> 
> To wszystko - do zobaczenia jutro na trasie!!! :cucumber: :cheers1: :rock:


----------



## MAG

LMB said:


> ... Polish motorways have practically no speed limit as well, because as far as I have seen, there are no speed control cameras, nor police ... Seriously, has any of you ever witnessed anybody being pulled over?


You are making extraordinary sweeping statements, which are not borne out by reality. You should visit more often or alternatively spend 2 sec on YouTube, if you don’t fancy driving 800 km for an update. 

I’ve had the dubious pleasure of being pulled over on the A4, not for speeding but for a different … misconduct (a stupid knee-jerk reaction to a provocation). The police were very polite and listened intently to what I had to say for myself. They did not fine me but simply advised me on what I should have done and let me go. That particular patrol was an unmarked and jazzed up Opel Vectra, if I recall correctly.




AlexisMD said:


> :drool:


I must admit I am in two minds about the new 140 km/h speed limit and, frankly, I’d rather our law makers would instead concentrate on simplifying the plethora of our speed limits.

The new 140 km/h speed limit, on the one hand, reflects common practice and recognises the fact that many (perhaps most) drivers on our motorways drive at ~140±15 km/h. On the other hand, drivers tend to drive at something like +10 km/h whatever the limit, which could mean that we will see more and more people driving at or near ~160 km/h. At this speed you must have enough common sense to know and understand your own and your car’s limits.

A curious aspect of the new speed limit is that 140 km/h is legal while 150 is illegal but does not incur a fine, which is quite liberal, some might say irresponsible. So, in theory, if you don’t mind getting a minor reprimand from the police when you exceed 140 km/h, you get away scot-free driving at up to 150 km/h.

Poland is effectively testing the water and taking a bit of a risk with this new bold law and I expect other EU countries will play a wait-and-see game before following suit. In a sense, Poland is a good fitness-for-use test case for Europe given our emerging road infrastructure, relative driver inexperience and knowing how tempestuous our home-grown driving habits can be. If road fatalities or serious injuries go up, I expect this will discourage other countries from increasing their own max speed limit beyond 130 km/h. 


.


----------



## Sarcasm

LMB said:


> ...in cars of the YETI brand? (Yeti: much spoken about, never seen :lol
> 
> Seriously, has any of you ever witnessed anybody being pulled over?
> 
> (for the record, it doesn't mean that highways in Poland are dangerous)


Actually there are now tons of unmarked police cars cruising around in Poland, with numbers rising every year. While 4 or 5 years ago I would have scoffed at the notion of getting pulled over in Poland by an unmarked police vehicle, now that is not the case. 

The Polish police seem to love their unmarked cruisers and they do really strike fear in the hearts of Polish motorists- because there is no single make or model that dominates the unmarked police vehicle pool in Poland. So while in USA you can be on the lookout for Crown Vics or Chevy Impalas, in Poland you never know if you are being trailed by police. They could be driving anything a VW Passat, Opel Vectra, Kia Cee’d, Renault Megane or an Alfa Romeo 159 etc. The list goes on. 

So your chances of getting pulled over by an unmarked police car in Poland are just as good as in Germany or the Netherlands. Trust me- during a short trip recently I was pulled over 3 times and I don’t even live in PL!


----------



## toonczyk

MAG said:


> If road fatalities or serious injuries go up, I expect this will discourage other countries from increasing their own max speed limit beyond 130 km/h.


I don't think many countries will follow us with raising the speed limits, given the current political climate (in relation to climatology-sort-of-climate).

And speaking of road fatalities, it's not going to be easy to beat last year's stats. Polish police published a report about road safety in 2010, we've had:
38 776 accidents,
48 872 injured victims,
3 902 dead victims.

This is still a lot, but compare this with 5 years ago (2006):
46 876 accidents,
59 123 injured victims,
5 243 dead victims.

And 20 years ago in record breaking 1991 7901 people died in road accidents, more than twice as much as last year!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Actually many countries have or will increase speed limits;

Denmark: 110 -> 130
Sweden: 110 -> 120
Poland: 130 -> 140 / 110 -> 120
Slovenia: 100 -> 110 (expwy)
Netherlands: 120 -> 130

I believe Spain and Portugal increased limits a little while longer ago on their expressways (which are now considered motorways). Italy's highway code also allows 150 km/h, but this hasn't been implemented. There are also calls for increase in speed limits in Slovakia, Czech Rep. and Switzerland.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

MAG said:


> The new 140 km/h speed limit, on the one hand, reflects common practice and recognises the fact that many (perhaps most) drivers on our motorways drive at ~140±15 km/h. On the other hand, drivers tend to drive at something like +10 km/h whatever the limit, which could mean that we will see more and more people driving at or near ~160 km/h. At this speed you must have enough common sense to know and understand your own and your car’s limits.


I'm not exactly familiar with the driving habits of Polish drivers but I don't really think the majority of people will start to drive faster than 140 km/h. Common sense tells me that you actually might start seeing more people who drive under the speed limit. First, the faster you go the more attention driving requires so people might find a speed less than 140km/h more comfortable. Wind noise may also become quite annoying at higher speeds, especially when driving a cheaper-end car. Secondly, increased speed means increased fuel comsumption which is quite an important factor when driving long distances. But I might be wrong. Maybe the need for speed is greater than the factors I mentioned :lol:


----------



## msz2

What does cheaper-end mean?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A car that is priced on the cheaper end of the price spectrum, i.e. the opposite of a top-end car. 

This was most noticeable in the 1990's where a Renault Twingo or Daihatsu Cuore were barely comfortable on motorway speeds.


----------



## czerwony_bo_szybszy

Rebasepoiss said:


> the faster you go the more attention driving requires so people might find a speed less than 140km/h more comfortable.


I feel more comfortable on long distances driving faster
1.It`s less boring, when driving 110km/h you really feel asleep quickly
2.You`re less tired because the time of your journey is shorter

I use motorway 4 days/week to get to school and I must admit that on short distances like this I drive approx. 30 km/h slower than when I drive for a long distance

Apart from that, your arguments seem reasonably, IMO polish drivers don`t drive very fast on motorways, most of them will respect 140 (not due to the law of course ;D); 
the problem is that we drive too fast on normal roads
(if I don`t have a motorway near to my town, where can I feel the "need for speed"...)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Has S8 already opened?


----------



## mappero

Which part do you mean? Warsaw or Wroclaw part?


----------



## MAG

ChrisZwolle said:


> Has S8 already opened?


I take it you mean S8 in Warsaw, in which case the answer is no, not yet, in as far as I know, but the road should open later on today.
Many Varsovians will be out in force taking pictures and making videos so we'll get first-hand reports tonight or tomorrow.


.


----------



## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> Has S8 already opened?


Yes, it has. One of the first lucky to drive:


----------



## treichard

The GDDKIA press release about the new S8 section isn't shy about mentioning contractor mistakes repeatedly:

http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/index.php/article/8571/s8-konotopa---powazkowska-otwarta
(in GoogleTranslateEnglish: )



> The route is safe, despite numerous shortcomings on the side of the contractor, and could be released into circulation.
> ...
> Route S8 was given to drivers due to the communication needs of the capital, but the contractor will have to remove all the failures which occurred during his fault.
> ...
> Aggravating the problem of fault the contractor route S8 shows that developed and implemented by GDDKiA quality control system on national roads investment is effective and working. We remind you that the weaknesses which were revealed by GDDKiA in recent days were the result of work carried out on the construction route S8 in recent weeks. Were thus captured immediately after they appeared.


What were the "shortcomings" that the contractor must fix?


----------



## DanielFigFoz

ChrisZwolle said:


> I believe Spain and Portugal increased limits a little while longer ago on their expressways (which are now considered motorways). Italy's highway code also allows 150 km/h, but this hasn't been implemented. There are also calls for increase in speed limits in Slovakia, Czech Rep. and Switzerland.


Spain might have, but I don't think that any express way in Portugal can have a speed limit of over 100km/h, even if it's 3x3 in a rural area. However, some former expressways have been elevated to motorway status, to allow a 120km/h speed limit, although the new section of the IP2 is 2x2, rural, to motorway standards and is an expressway.

Hopefully the rest of Europe will also raise speed limits, especially UK motorways and dual carriage ways (112km/h only!)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

S8 Warszawa:


----------



## TheFlyPL

ChrisZwolle said:


> S8 Warszawa:


New S8 is quite nice but i hate design of those acoustic barries. :bash: 

If they were all in dark green (without that bright yellow) it will be muc better and calmly. Now it is a chinese market... 

I hope someone will plant some kiond of a climber.


----------



## Chris80678

I don't like those horrible green and yellow acoustic barriers on Warsaw's S8 either. When will proper construction start on Warsaw's eastern bypass - the S17? It would be good construction started this year (ie at the same time as the S2 from Konotopa to Warsaw's airport). 

Soon Wrocław's A8 from the A4 interchange to its airport will open :banana:


----------



## mappero

Sign system in Poland is poor and old-fashioned, not corresponding to reality of dual or more lanes system road. Not even mentioned about functionality with wide used navigation system across the Europe. That why we have to push government by citizen ideas to introduce these changes. Actually we have group of fans and professionals working on that. I wish all the best for them and wait for seeing result as soon as possible on Polish roads


----------



## Chris80678

ChrisZwolle said:


> :cripes: Just about anything that can be wrong about this sign is wrong. First of all, the size and layout is completely insufficient for 3 lanes. You hardly notice this sign between the giant noise barriers, especially because the same colors are used.
> 
> I agree
> 
> Second, why on earth is this road signed as S2? From this point on there will be several kilometers of S8 before you reach the (future) interchange with S2, but why sign Poznan and S2 together? It makes no sense, if you really must sign another number than the actual road number, at least use A2, because that's the road going to Poznan, not S2 which actually veers back east and is in my opinion a completely unnecessary road number to sign at this location. I wouldn't sign it sooner than interchange Konotopa.


I'm sure that the signs on the S8 will be altered when the interchange with the 
A2/S2 at Konotopa is completed next year. At the Konotopa interchange the signs should be altered to say A2 Łódż and S2 Lotnisko


----------



## PLH

Check this:

Bielsko Biała




























Source: gorpol.pl


----------



## WB2010

^^
The last photo shows the Inner Western Bypass of Bielsko-Biała completed on the 29th June 2006. Two tunnels are visible: one is 240 meters long and the another 150 meters


----------



## torunczyk

Grisent said:


> And correct me if I'm wrong -- to get from Warsaw to Sochaczew, I would prefer the S2 anyway, rather than taking the 580...


True, but the DW580 also leads to the Sochaczew as an alterantive road. That means the sign should be where it is.


----------



## g.spinoza

WB2010 said:


> ^^
> The last photo shows the Inner Western Bypass of Bielsko-Biała completed on the 29th June 2006. Two tunnels are visible: one is 240 meters long and the another 150 meters


What's the reason for the second one? It seems to shelter the road from... nothing!


----------



## PLH

Tunnels like this do not shelter the road from something, but something from the road. In this case - residential area. There is a park at the top of this tunnel as well.


----------



## g.spinoza

PLH said:


> Tunnels like this do not shelter the road from something, but something from the road. In this case - residential area. There is a park at the top of this tunnel as well.


Agreed, but in many cases sound-proof barriers are enough:









I didn't know about the park on top of the tunnel. Sounds ingenious.


----------



## Marek.kvackaj

areal photos of Biansko biala are extra nice ...thumb up


----------



## geogregor

Marek.kvackaj said:


> areal photos of Biansko biala are extra nice ...thumb up


Bielsko-Biala


----------



## tomekwrz




----------



## tomekwrz




----------



## LMB

g.spinoza said:


> So basically you instantly trasform a three-lane motorway in a two-lane one, given that in most countries it is forbidden to overtake on the right...


If nothing has changed since I passed my exam, then FYI: it's not forbidden in Poland in cities to overtake on the right: 
1. in cities, if the number of lanes is minimum 2 
2. outside of "cities" (build-up areas) if the number of lanes is min. 3

Now this is law. In practice, of course, point 1 does not apply to motorways, because they are always "exterritorial" to cities. Point 2 probably also does not apply very often, because I don't know of any 3-lane road outside a city that is not a highway. But this law may apply to all the inner-city S-class roads, so you'd be allowed to overtake on the right. 

Forumers, please update if I'm wrong.


----------



## toonczyk

You're partly wrong. In Poland it is allowed to overtake on the right under two conditions:
1) on one-way roadways,
2) on two-way roads, as long as at least 2 lanes (built-up areas) or at least 3 lanes (outside of urban areas).

Point 1 in practice means all dual carriageway roads (i.e. motorways), because each carriageway is in fact a one-way road. So you can legaly overtake on the right on all dual carriageway roads, but I don't think that's such a good idea. In most cases this may be dangerous and is unnecessary. But sometimes this possibility is tempting, since polish drivers love to drive on the left so much...

Last Friday I covered about 900km on motorways, three times it happened to me that on a completely empty three lane highway I encountered a vehicle driving on the leftmost lane (twice in Austria, once in Czech Republic). Each time it turned out to be a polish driver. We just love left lanes!


----------



## and802

toonczyk said:


> .....Last Friday I covered about 900km on motorways, three times it happened to me that on a completely empty three lane highway I encountered a vehicle driving on the leftmost lane (twice in Austria, once in Czech Republic). Each time it turned out to be a polish driver. We just love left lanes!


I believe we drive leftmost lanes, 'cause we do not have highways in Poland, as a result we do not know how to drive on modern roads. we have no places to practise. 

some may say: wait, we do have some (highways). but the truth is only some regions have got access to highways strips. even the capital has got none, not to mention "the East Wall" - Poland "B".


----------



## Sponsor

and802 said:


> I believe we drive leftmost lanes, 'cause we do not have highways in Poland, as a result we do not know how to drive on modern roads. we have no places to practise.


:lol:
true, sadly. We can also say "yes we do have motorways, but none with 3 lanes!"


----------



## Poul_

Sponsor said:


> :lol:
> true, sadly. We can also say "yes we do have motorways, but none with 3 lanes!"


A4 near Krakow and Silesia has even 4 lanes , so you are wrong !


----------



## PLH

He knows that, but it is what the street says.


From today on the very last missing section of A4 just at the Ukrainian border is U/C and is to be due till April 30th, 2012.


----------



## bogdymol

PLH said:


> He knows that, but it is what the street says.
> 
> 
> From today on the very last missing section of A4 just at the Ukrainian border is U/C and is to be due till April 30th, 2012.


So the term is exactly one year and 3 months for building a motorway stretch? Please tell this to our politicians. Please!

PS: How many km?


----------



## Blaskovitz

Poul_ said:


> A4 near Krakow and Silesia has even 4 lanes , so you are wrong !


2x2 ... 2 lines to Katowice and 2 to Kraków.

2x3 is a 3 line motorway


----------



## Robotsx

^^February was also very bad: February 2010: 152 fatalities, Feb 2011: 221 fatalities. 112 more people died in first two months of 2011 than in the same time in 2010.

Source: http://www.statystyka.policja.pl/ - Polish police site.


----------



## volkhen

How is this possible? 
Different weather? 

In these months last year we had heavy winter. So it was difficult to drive fast...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Hence, fewer fatal crashes. The amount of crashes is higher, but the amount of fatal crashes is often lower because people drive slower.


----------



## bigalowski

*A8 Construction of right bank overpass*


----------



## Robotsx

volkhen said:


> How is this possible?
> Different weather?
> 
> In these months last year we had heavy winter. So it was difficult to drive fast...


I suppose...
Number of fatalities is smaller than in 2009: January - 327, February - 253.


----------



## PhirgataZFs1694

bigalowski said:


>


Can't see your picture.


----------



## Rusonaldo




----------



## ChrisZwolle

Which of these two signs indicate an urban (50 km/h) speed limit?










or


----------



## kooba

Second one.

Green sign indicate only administration border of city/village, and have no effect on you as a driver.


----------



## toonczyk

Signs with town names used to constitute a built-up area, but they don't anymore.


----------



## Sasza

^^
White ones still does but they are very rare.


----------



## toonczyk

^^ No, they don't. They have not since 2006. White signs with town names should have been replaced with green ones over 5 years ago. If for some reason somewhere they haven't been, it still doesn't mean anything - according to the law only D-42 sign constitutes a built-up area.


----------



## Sasza

^^
My bad  I apology for mistake.


----------



## LMB

toonczyk said:


> ^^ No, they don't. They have not since 2006. White signs with town names should have been replaced with green ones over 5 years ago. If for some reason somewhere they haven't been, it still doesn't mean anything - according to the law only D-42 sign constitutes a built-up area.


So let's sum up the mess (if I remember corectly): 

* Until late 70's: it was black on yellow (German system anybody?)
* late 70's .. 1984: white on green universally 
* 1984 .. 2005: black on white for built-up areas, white on green in villages (as before)
* since 2006: black silhuette on white

--
Personally I don't mind changes, especially if they are supposed to bring some common standard, but that's too much for my liking. The "black on white" system was in use also in Czech Rep., and the French one isn't too far. The problem is that green once meant "built up", then not...

Was the last change necessary? The only place (Other than Poland) I've seen those signs so far was Belgium.


----------



## kooba

toonczyk said:


> ^^ No, they don't. They have not since 2006. White signs with town names should have been replaced with green ones over 5 years ago. If for some reason somewhere they haven't been, it still doesn't mean anything - according to the law only D-42 sign constitutes a built-up area.


There is still white sign with black letter in Smardzów near DK8. After 5 years 



> Was the last change necessary? The only place (Other than Poland) I've seen those signs so far was Belgium.


In my opinion this new system with D-42 sign is good, easy and logic. And I don't understand why do You care about other countries.


----------



## Fuzzy Llama

LMB said:


> So let's sum up the mess (if I remember corectly):
> 
> * Until late 70's: it was black on yellow (German system anybody?)
> * late 70's .. 1984: white on green universally


Uhm, are you sure?
In the commie times there was this weird rule that 'a build-up area is an area where at least three houses at most 15 metres apart from each other that are located N metres from the road' (all Poles remember the greatest comedy movie of all times, "Miś" - look at the opening scene and then at 5:10.

Are you sure that the green signs supplemented this rule? I always thought that they were merely informative, although this rule was abolished before I've even been born.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

kooba said:


> In my opinion this new system with D-42 sign is good, easy and logic. And I don't understand why do You care about other countries.


I like this sign too. It's very important to have some standardization along road signs in Europe. Some things are different in various countries for logical reasons (like speed limits) but others are identical and it's easier if they are then signed identically too.


----------



## kooba

ChrisZwolle said:


> I like this sign too. It's very important to have some standardization along road signs in Europe. Some things are different in various countries for logical reasons (like speed limits) but others are identical and it's easier if they are then signed identically too.


I notice that there are some different road signs in Netherlands, so maybe you need to standardize them to ours for important common good


----------



## kalle_sg

LMB said:


> Was the last change necessary? The only place (Other than Poland) I've seen those signs so far was Belgium.


Similar ones are also in use in Sweden, Denmark and Finland.


----------



## bogdymol

^^ We have this signes in Romania too, but the old and regular ones mean the same thing as the new ones: inhabitated area, 50 km/h speed limit. The only (legal) difference is the design.








=

















=


----------



## dino2010

*A1*

Kilka zdjęć okolic węzła Maciejów, zrobionych ze wspomnianej wcześniej hałdy zmagazynowanego kruszywa:

...z tej hałdy:


Widok w kierunku obiektu WA-456 i ul. Na Łuku


Widok na tzw. suchodół, który aktualnie... nie jest suchy


Widok na OUA


Widok na obiekt WA-457


W kierunku obiektu WA-458


Zbliżenie


by rumbi


----------



## Dantiscum

del


----------



## Cani

South bypass of Gdansk, taken by me while approaching to Gdansk from Munich.:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice, is that S7 or the Trasa Sucharskiego?


----------



## maciek1211

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nice, is that S7 or the Trasa Sucharskiego?


S7.


----------



## ufonut

A8 intersection Airport (Wroclaw) by j.tom










By zygmunt_august










By garym


----------



## Signar

Last days of DK12/17 Piaski-Lublin after that S12/17


----------



## TheFlyPL

Signar said:


> Last days of DK12/17 Piaski-Lublin after that S12/17


Geeezzzz .... That's such a bad road :nuts:. Go thanks that they are going to rebuild it.


----------



## ufonut

A2 Swiecko-Nowy Tomysl by Carte



Carte said:


> Na stronie http://www.autostrada-a2.pl/pl/galeria/a2-swiecko-nowy-tomysl/marzec-2011/1.html pojawiły się nowe zdjęcia lotnicze z 21 marca.






Carte said:


>





Carte said:


>


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Wow, absolutely stunning! Congrats CARTE


----------



## WB2010

^^ When I look at these pictures I feel very upset - because of unimaginable destruction of the natural environment and forests hno: I have always thought that it would have been much better to modernize and upgrade the current road number 2 to the motorway standard with the construction of some necessary bypasses, just like in the case of S7, for example. There is no slightest doubt that it would have been possible, because of small numer of towns and villages between Nowy Tomyśl and Świecko and very low population density. Instead of that some greedy people preferred to cut down millions of trees, one of the greatest treasures of Poland hno:


----------



## toonczyk

Are you kidding me right now?


----------



## ufonut

WB2010 said:


> ^^ When I look at these pictures I feel very upset - because of unimaginable destruction of the natural environment and forests hno: I have always thought that it would have been much better to modernize and upgrade the current road number 2 to the motorway standard with the construction of some necessary bypasses, just like in the case of S7, for example. There is no slightest doubt that it would have been possible, because of small numer of towns and villages between Nowy Tomyśl and Świecko and very low population density. Instead of that some greedy people preferred to cut down millions of trees, one of the greatest treasures of Poland hno:


Over 25% of the cost of this highway is going to environment-related initiatives - the highest in Europe. In fact government of Sweden (which by the way spends the most on environment on a percentage basis in Europe) came to Poland to visit the construction and learn how to apply innovative environmental preservation techniques. 

There will be more trees planted than cut down.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Besides that, the new right-of-way has been cleared of trees since the 1990's, it would be a waste not to use it.


----------



## becs

Incredible pics, congratz


----------



## KHS

Hello my Polish friends!
I have a few questions for you...

What is the official status of E462 / E75 / S1 road from Cieszyn to Bielsko-Biała? Im asking because it looks like a highway but it is not tolled. Maybe this changed from the last time I was driving there 6 months ago or is it still tollfree?

And what is the current status of the interchange in Bielsko-Biała? I was supposed to take the exit towards Katowice but it was closed so I had problems there. And right at that point my Garmin went mad... Is it still U/C?

And can I expect similar situation on the same route from Czech border till Katowice considering the fact that Poland is one major construction site?

Thanks in advance!

:cheers:


----------



## TheFlyPL

In Poland all expreswas are tollfree now, although they are built in highway standard.


----------



## toonczyk

KHS said:


> Hello my Polish friends!
> I have a few questions for you...


S1 is an expressway, not a motorway, so it's not tolled and won't be. For now at least, I think in a couple of years politicians will decide to toll expressways as well, but until then - all S roads are free.

The interchange in Bielsko-Biała is still under construction, but it's marked much better than 6 months ago, so you should be OK. The interchange will be ready in a few months, that's how it looked like a couple of weeks ago:
http://www.kocjan.pl/displayimage-68-25.html

Route from Czech border to Katowice is a motorway, tolled A1. It's partly ready, but unfortunately there are some problems on the section closest to the border. The main contractor - Alpine Bau - sued the government and they are battling in court. But if all goes according to plan, A1 between Katowice and the border should be ready by the end of this year. In summer 2012 it should span north all the way to Pyrzowice.


----------



## mcarling

kooba said:


> I don't understand why do You care about other countries.


People driving across Europe should not need to learn new signs every time they cross a border. In my opinion, the standardization of road signs should be an exclusive competence of the European Commission. In my opinion, it should be illegal for member states to erect road signs that do not conform to eurostandards.


----------



## KHS

TheFlyPL said:


> In Poland all expreswas are tollfree now, although they are built in highway standard.





toonczyk said:


> S1 is an expressway, not a motorway, so it's not tolled and won't be. For now at least, I think in a couple of years politicians will decide to toll expressways as well, but until then - all S roads are free.
> 
> The interchange in Bielsko-Biała is still under construction, but it's marked much better than 6 months ago, so you should be OK. The interchange will be ready in a few months, that's how it looked like a couple of weeks ago:
> http://www.kocjan.pl/displayimage-68-25.html
> 
> Route from Czech border to Katowice is a motorway, tolled A1. It's partly ready, but unfortunately there are some problems on the section closest to the border. The main contractor - Alpine Bau - sued the government and they are battling in court. But if all goes according to plan, A1 between Katowice and the border should be ready by the end of this year. In summer 2012 it should span north all the way to Pyrzowice.


Thank you!

:cheers:


----------



## delfin_pl

F..k I got fooled.


----------



## Chris80678

Bzyq_74 said:


> 1-st stage of A8 will be open in few day
> (2011-04-03)
> Bridge and 2-nd stage - 2011-06-15


Is this true? Or it is an April Fools? Will the A8 from the A4/S8 interchange to 
Wroclaw airport really be open for use on 3rd April 2011? On the website it says 30th April 2011 is the planned opening day


----------



## Uppsala

kooba said:


> Europa is not one country. Deal with it, and consider it while planing road trip. We are independent states, and we should have right to decide how we want to create our law and such details like road signs. Personally I don't like people, who I don't know, and I don't vote (like European Commission) decide about anything that apply to me.


You are right! Europa (Europe) is not one country, we are many countries. I don't think the road signs is a real problem. We have rules how they should look like and normally we have no problems when we are going in many European countries. The differences are more the colours, the font and things like that. But sometimes they could standardize it a little bit more than they are doing. Some countries have numbers at the junctions at the motorways, some still don't have it. The systems of the junction numbers are different. In Germany, Sweden and the UK the numbers are just after each other. In Austria or Czech Republic the numbers are in kilometers, that's can be confusing sometimes. In Poland and Sweden the warning signs are yellow triangles, in Germany, the UK and France the warning signs are white triangles, but in Ireland the warning signs are diamond shaped. That's a little bit confusing too. But chance everything to one standard for all European countries? I don't know, it's maybe too expensive. :dunno:


----------



## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> It seems finished, when will it open?


No exact date has been announced yet, I'd say it's a matter of a few weeks. On paper they have time till May, but as you've said - it seems finished, so maybe they'll speed things up. As of a few weeks ago the only thing missing were noise barriers in a couple of places.
Someone wrote it's already opened a few hours ago, but that's probably April 1st talking again


----------



## ufonut

A1 by Noah



noah_pl said:


> 1. Widok w kierunku Ostravy z wiaduktu po którym idzie DW935.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Kierunek Gliwice, widok z wiaduktu "trąbki".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Jak wyżej tylko stoję nad drugą jednią.


More here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=542716&page=532


----------



## bebe.2006

noah_pl said:


>


Ok, which vehicle brand is this? This is a question for not Poles.

edit: right Chris.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

FSO?


----------



## Superkot634

*Condition of national roads in Poland, 3.04.2011 r. *



*Green - Good condition.
Yellow - Average.
Orange - Aggravated.
Red - Bad, awful.
Blue - Construction, reconstruction.*


----------



## Rusonaldo




----------



## LMB

kooba said:


> Europa is not one country. Deal with it, and consider it while planing road trip. We are independent states, and we should have right to decide how we want to create our law and such details like road signs.


Road signs are dictated by "Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals". Intenational law has priority over national law.


----------



## lukaszek89

^^Not always.


----------



## snowdog

kooba said:


> Europa is not one country. Deal with it, and consider it while planing road trip. We are independent states, and we should have right to decide how we want to create our law and such details like road signs. Personally I don't like people, who I don't know, and I don't vote (like European Commission) decide about anything that apply to me.


You do like the money going to you though ? As far as I know Poland receives a lot more from the EU than it pays ?

Tbh though, I don't think the signs are particularly hard to understand, the Polish signs DO look a lot older than the German or dutch signs though design wise.


----------



## toonczyk

snowdog said:


> You do like the money going to you though ?


Yeah, we love it. We do acknowledge though that one day, once we get up to speed with you guys, we'll have to start giving back to our friends in the east and help them out, just as the west has been helping us out financially over the last decade. But to draw a straight line from that to a unified roadsign system is a huge misunderstanding of what the European Union was meant to be. Every single country has different needs, 95%+ of traffic in every country consists of local nationals going around minding their own business, why should the EU regulate every single aspect of road traffic? In Finland it's legal to have spikes on your tires and here in the south it's not. In Germany I'm allowed to drive 250km/h on the autobahn and here I'm not. In the UK you drive on the left side of the road. Should the EU put up rules regulating all of those areas, just for the sake of regulation? I believe there should be some ground rules (that's what the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic regulates), such as basic design cues when it comes to speed limit signs etc. But I believe it's an overkill to regulate every single aspect of road traffic worldwide (or Europe-wide), because every country has specific and unique characteristics, and after all the law is there to serve the citizens (drivers), not the other way round. Here we decided to use those white signs to mark populated areas, because studies have shown the drivers find it logical and are more likely to respect that, rather than the no-speeding-in-administrative-boundaries-of-a-town-rule. It seems reasonable to me, but I fully respect other opinions in that regard and when I travel to a country I've never been to before, I don't mind spending 5 minutes making sure I'm up to speed with their law.


----------



## ufonut

S7 Skarzysko-Kamienna - Kielce by proskarzysko



proskarzysko said:


> Skarżysko. Widok z kładki na estakadę.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Z kładki w kierunku przeciwnym
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zjazd z kładki po zachodniej stronie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Widok z WD3 w kier. Radom/Warszawa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I w kierunku przeciwnym. Niedziela, a robota wre.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PZ1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Na PZ1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Widok z PZ1 w kier. Kielc z dedykacja dla *pmaciej7*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Widok z PZ1 w kier. Radom/Warszawa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoom cyfrowy 24x z PZ1 na WD3, KP2 i E1.






proskarzysko said:


> To już w pobliżu WD4. widok na Górę Baranowską.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Widok z serwisówki przy WD4 w kier. Skarżyska.
> 
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> WD4 widok w kier. starej (już wkrótce) siódemki.
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> Widok z WD4 w kier. Skarżyska
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> I zoomik w tym samym kierunku
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> Kolejne 3 fotki na WD4
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> Widok na WD4 w kier. Skarżyska
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> Jak wyżej tylko z innego miejsca
> 
> 
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> W kierunku Kielc z tego samego miejsca






proskarzysko said:


> MS 6 i WD5
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Z WD5 w kier. Kielc
> 
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> Z parkingu pomiędzy WD5, a WD7. W oddali WD5
> 
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> WD5 i WD7. Kierunek Skarżysko, itd.
> 
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> PZ2
> 
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> 
> To już po minięciu PZ2. Po kolei WS8, MS9, WD10 i WD11
> 
> 
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> 
> Dwie fotki na obie strony MS9. Jeszcze im trochę roboty zostało
> 
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> 
> Pomiędzy WD10, a WD11






proskarzysko said:


> I już WD11 - węzeł Zalezianka
> 
> Zjazd z węzła na Kielce
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Z wiaduktu w kier. Skarżyska
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> Czyżby mini MOP przy węźle?
> 
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> Węzeł z dalszej perspektywy
> 
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> 2 fotki pomiędzy WD11, a E12. w kier. Skarżyska
> 
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> Mniej więcej w tym samym miejscu, tylko z góry





proskarzysko said:


> Estakada E12
> 
> 
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> Dwa widoczki na E12 w kier. Skarżyska
> 
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> To już estakada E13. Także w kier. Skarżyska
> 
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> WS 14, połączenie z obecną siódemką, a w oddali KP15
> 
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> Połączenie starej siódemki z nową
> 
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> Z kładki KP15 w kier. Skarżyska. Już niedługo pomkniemy prosto!
> 
> 
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> 
> I w kier. Kielc


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## ufonut

S11 Western Bypass of Poznan by Carte





























































































More here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=331159&page=97


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## michael_siberia

Official AADT 2010 data:
http://gddkia.gov.pl/987/gpr-2010

1st place: (northernmost section of) S86, 104339 AADT.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

You just made my day


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## ufonut

A8 Wroclaw Bypass by Bartek610


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## rakcancer

ufonut said:


> S11 Western Bypass of Poznan by Carte
> 
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> 
> wow. someone is taking environmental issues pretty seriously.:lol:


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## katia72

rakcancer said:


> ufonut said:
> 
> 
> 
> S11 Western Bypass of Poznan by Carte
> 
> 
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> 
> wow. someone is taking environmental issues pretty seriously.:lol:
> 
> 
> 
> WOW WOW WOW !
Click to expand...


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## toonczyk

^^ Those are noise barriers.


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## Jakub Warszauer

Noise.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What is the maximum allowed amount of decibels due to roadway noise in Poland?

In the Netherlands the primary maximum amount of decibels on receivers* is Lden 48 dB, but exemptions can be made at 53 dB (rural) and 63 dB (urban) which is very frequently done. (i.e. de-facto limits are 53 and 63 dB). This can be even higher due to rail noise (55 dB and 68 dB respectively, even 73 dB in some special cases).

Receiver in the Netherlands: any house that is used for permanent habitation, schools, hospitals, gypsy camps (yes we have them), but not office buildings, industrial sites, churches, vacation parks, campsites, etc.


----------



## Sponsor

ChrisZwolle said:


> What is the maximum allowed amount of decibels due to roadway noise in Poland?


From 50 dB (nearby spa, hospitals and "A" class rpotected zones) to 65 dB (for cities with pop. over 100k) during day and 45-55 dB at night (LAeq)

source: http://edroga.pl/rozmaitosci/wiadom...uszczalny-poziom-halasu-dla-istniejacych-drog


----------



## ufonut

S69 Bielsko Biala - Zywiec by M. Kocjan



marek_kocjan said:


> Kolejne widokowe zdjęcia z S69 Bielsko-Biała - Żywiec:


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## bleetz

Carte said:


>


This photo gave me an orgasm. Fantastic.


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## geogregor

^^

Doesn't it look American? I'm livin' it!!


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## bleetz

I like it how it is straight. It reminds me of some sections of Vilnius-Panevėžys (an ancient road but still) where you have long straight sections. I love straight roads, especially new straight roads. Can't wait to test this one out.

And it doesn't look American, it looks better


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## Blaskovitz

A8 in Wrocław


----------



## bebe.2006

Next 6,6 km of motorway A1 to Rowien - Swierklany (towards Czechs) to be opened on 21 april.


----------



## mgk920

geogregor said:


> ^^
> 
> Doesn't it look American? I'm livin' it!!


In a setting like that, a USA interstate would have a wide, grassy median, or, more likely, have each carriageway on a separately cleared path through that forest such that you would not be able to see the other through the trees.

Mike


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## geogregor

mgk920 said:


> In a setting like that, a USA interstate would have a wide, grassy median, or, more likely, have each carriageway on a separately cleared path through that forest such that you would not be able to see the other through the trees.
> 
> Mike


I know, I know. I drove thousands of miles in US. 

It was poetical license. Do we always have to be so precise?


----------



## Sponsor

btw could someone post such a highway in the appropriate thread? I mean aerial of seperate carriageways


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## Chris80678

bebe.2006 said:


> Next 6,6 km of motorway A1 to Rowien - Swierklany (towards Czechs) to be opened on 21 april.


fantastic news! A short stretch of new motorway but significant nonetheless :cheers:. The A1 will eventually reach the Czech border
I look forward to the 21st April


----------



## bebe.2006

^^ Not the whole motorway is finished now. The last part hitting to the Czech border, Swierklany-Gorzyczki (14 km) will be ready in March 2012.


----------



## toonczyk

^^ Hopefully, I still have my doubts about that...


----------



## DSzumaher

One road, many faces:

First face (the youngest):





Second ((almost) the oldest):





Third (young) (Let roadsigns not confusing, or rather lack of one ):





The oldest again:





Almost the same road (first 11 km):


----------



## ufonut

Highway Maintenance Depot in Swierklany by Matt Saver



Matt Saver said:


> Kilka fotek z OUA Świerklany.
> Wnętrze magazynu soli:


To preempt questions - the big dome is a storage silo for salt



Matt Saver said:


> garaże
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> podobają mi się te Unimogi
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> wrota do magazynu soli
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> Unimog w pełnej okazałości
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> magazyn soli
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> pojazd pomiarowców
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> żeby nie było wątpliwości
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> budynek główny


----------



## bebe.2006

DTS Zabrze:


gpj70 said:


>





Hasiosznup2k10 said:


> Zdjęcie z soboty z pętli na Lompy:
> 
> 
> Tak wyglądają namalowane pasy na północnej jezdni:


----------



## ufonut

AOW Wroclaw Bypass A8


----------



## kmieciu

*A2 Świecko-Nowy Tomyśl section 5.1*

16.04.2011

A2 Świecko-Nowy Tomyśl section 5.1 
Concrete, northern carriageway, from viaduct WD5 near Rzepin to interchange Świecko. 

map


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## ChrisZwolle

The main span of the Northern Bridge in Warszawa has been lifted into position:


----------



## ufonut

DTS Zabrze by gpj70



gpj70 said:


> Wymalowane pasy - tylko jechać
> 
> widok z wiaduktu przy Lidlu


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ when will it open to traffic?


----------



## katia72

ufonut said:


> DTS Zabrze by gpj70


This looks sooo nice:nuts:


----------



## ufonut

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ when will it open to traffic?


Before the end of this month.

So in the next two weeks we will see several new stretches of highways and expressways open:

A1 
S7
A8
DTS

In total about 35km.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Which part of S7? North of Kielce?


----------



## ufonut

17km from Skarzysko-Kamienna to Wystepa.


----------



## michael_siberia

DTŚ - not in April, but in June.

AOW by Polskie Radio Wrocław (Polish Radio Wroclaw):


----------



## bebe.2006

Connection Poland A6 - Germany A11 now:



maciek2000 said:


> Tak wygląda od teraz przejazd przez granicę na terenie byłego przejścia granicznego w Kołbaskowie. Zdjęcie autorstwa pmacieja7:


----------



## Rusonaldo




----------



## Chris80678

Is the A1 from Rowień to Świerklany open to traffic yet?
The A2 from Nowy Tomyśl to the German border will probably be Poland's most uninteresting stretch of new motorway with nothing but forest either side of it


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## toonczyk

Chris80678 said:


> Is the A1 from Rowień to Świerklany open to traffic yet?


Yeah, open for traffic, although partly only one lane in each direction, they are giving some finishing touches to it (should be fully operational in about one month).


Chris80678 said:


> The A2 from Nowy Tomyśl to the German border will probably be Poland's most uninteresting stretch of new motorway with nothing but forest either side of it


Nothing but forest. A very beautiful forest


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## Chris80678

Only 7 days until the opening of the A8 from the A4 to the airport interchange. Go Poland! :cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

Chris80678 said:


> Only 7 days until the opening of the A8 from the A4 to the airport interchange. Go Poland! :cheers:


And it's only 7 kilometers. In the motorway history books, this will end up being a very minor motorway opening.


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## kooba

ChrisZwolle said:


> And it's only 7 kilometers. In the motorway history books, this will end up being a very minor motorway opening.


This section of Wrocław bypass doesn't solve any of Wrocław problems. Also not all direction will be open until whole A8 will be ready.


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## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> And it's only 7 kilometers. In the motorway history books, this will end up being a very minor motorway opening.


In general we have a policy of small steps, only PPP sections are built in big chunks. Apart from privately built A1 and A2 sections (62,4km and 105,9km respectively), the longest stretch of new road to be opened this year at one time is 20,1km between Piekary Śląskie and Maciejów (although it already looks like Dragados are not going to make it in time).


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## ChrisZwolle

Well 7 kilometers can be a significant opening. For instance if the following criteria are met;

* a last missing link
* a major bridge / tunnel
* a big traffic congestion reduction

However, this section of A8 does not meet any of these criteria. The next step; opening of A8 including the Odra River Bridge will be much more significant.


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## E2rdEm

The official map of traffic volumes for 2010 has been silently published:
http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/userfiles/articles/g/gpr_7247/documents/Mapa_SDR2010.pdf

Thanks to *esce* for digging it out.


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## ChrisZwolle

I have a question about S7 near Gdansk. 

Why is it built on such a long viaduct?


----------



## katia72

I'm not sure but it seems to me that to buy plots from farmers would cost much more ... someone else have any suggestions?


----------



## delfin_pl

This is Żuławy (so called Little Holland) and Vistula Delta area and the ground is very quaggy here.



> Seventy-five percent of Little Holland lies 1,2 - 1,6 meters below the sea level. The rest of it lies 1,2-0 meters below the sea level. The area is rich in many artificial mounds (terpen) where the old houses and mills were erected. The network of water-ways form the following rivers: Linawa - Vistula- Vistula Bay Canal - Struga Orlowska, Struga Ostaszewska and Linawka. The Linawa River is the main draining canal for the central part of Żuławy. The Chlodniewo Pump Station is located 7 km north. The average level of water in the Linawa River, as in the other water reservoirs, are as follows: low water - 2,6 m below the sea level and high water - 2,25 m below the sea level. In practical terms it means that in relation to the surrounding area the water level is 1,0 - 1,2 m lower. The drainage system works smoothly. The level of Linawa River-bed is -4.0 m below sea level on average, which means that the depth of the Linawa is 1,4 - 1,75 m. The clarity of water in the Linawa river is 1 or II class, depending on the season of the year.
> 
> The soil in the area of projected construction has the following characteristics:
> 
> -he land between Linawa River and Struga Orlowska - heavy meadow-peat soil
> -he rest of the land - the mud-peat soil on loose sandy and weak loamy soil.
> -he expected level of construction ground is 3-4 m deep.


http://www.tppn.pl/MH/index.html


----------



## ufonut

S69 by Marek Kocjan



marek_kocjan said:


> Aktualizacja zdjęć lotniczych - http://www.kocjan.pl/thumbnails-68.html
> 
> Węzeł Mikuszowice:
> 
> 
> Lipnik:
> 
> 
> Estakada nad linią kolejową/potokiem Krzywa:


----------



## mr.cool

Cooool pictures, I'm so happy for Poland that they're finally advancing with these brilliant motorways and they seem to be the most attractive and dynamic ones in Europe too! 
Anyone got a map of the latest roads?


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## ufonut

S7 Skarzysko Kamienna-Kielce opened.



Zawrotygłowy;76854031 said:


> Całkiem ciekawe zdjęcia cm z kieleckich inwestycji:


----------



## Deo

^^ Love it! ♥


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## Blaskovitz

mr.cool said:


> Cooool pictures, I'm so happy for Poland that they're finally advancing with these brilliant motorways and they seem to be the most attractive and dynamic ones in Europe too!
> Anyone got a map of the latest roads?



22.04.2011 So There isn't S7 on this map. 










*
And here, statistics*


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## mr.cool

Awesome! Thanks Blaskovitz! When do you think the S17 from Warsaw - Lublin should be all under construction and turned into expressway? This is my main route to see family!


----------



## snowdog

mr.cool said:


> Awesome! Thanks Blaskovitz! When do you think the S17 from Warsaw - Lublin should be all under construction and turned into expressway? This is my main route to see family!


+1

When I go to Poland I also have to use that road, part of my family lives in Warsaw (Fathers side), part of them around Garwolin (Mothers Side), and one cousin lives in Lublin. Quite busy and traffic jams often occurred at Kolbiel if I recall correctly. I'd love to see Warsaw to Garwolin expressised asap...


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## ChrisZwolle

Ocnaznona = signed? (znak = sign)


----------



## bebe.2006

^^
yes


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## kooba

ChrisZwolle said:


> Ocnaznona = signed? (znak = sign)


"Oznaczona"


----------



## Andrzej_3598

*Oznaczona*



kooba said:


> "Oznaczona"


I think that better translation would be "marked".


----------



## geogregor

Andrzej_3598 said:


> I think that better translation would be "marked".


Normally yes but not in this context. No one will say road is "marked". Signed is the correct word.


----------



## delfin_pl

construction of S8 in Warsaw 2011-03-27


----------



## lafreak84

Can someone please resize the map of Polish highways because it's too big.


----------



## Mateusz

So tommorow next 7 km of Wroclaw bypass will get opened. Great, it will be like a savior when rest of it will be in operation. 

When I went to Wroclaw in March of this year, I saw a one massive traffic jam straight from the City Centre (mainly on Aleja Karkonoska) to Bielany Wroclawskie interchange. I bet it's same in north or northeastern parts of Wroclaw when driving towards Poznan or Lodz and Warsaw. Actually coach drivers were talking over the radio about how to avoid these bottlenecks.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ That section is one of the busiest non-motorways in Poland.


----------



## Mateusz

It doesn't suprise me at all but it shouldn't be like that, after all it's going to change... it's the main gateway in southern, western and eastern direction (If you don't count Legnicka Street or Aleja Krakowska) 

A8 in should not get jammed too quickly as so called 'Czech Route' is planned which would start from Inner Bypass and go near the area of Bielany (another bypass) and then join old DK 35 somewhere near Tyniec or Maluszow. But the City Council has no idea about funding or timescale for this project. It can be found in a master plan of Wroclaw.


----------



## rakcancer

lafreak84 said:


> Can someone please resize the map of Polish highways because it's too big.


Just change zoom level while watching if you want to see all in the screen. That map has perfect size for its accuracy.


----------



## lafreak84

^^ Unfortunately for the map my monitor is only 22" and I can get maybe half of the picture in the view zone.


----------



## rakcancer

Got question and will be glad if someone answer it for me.
S8 missing part between left and right bank of the Wisla river in Warsaw - what is the current status of this part? As I remember it has full expressway profile with all two- level intersections. If so, shouldn't it be marked as expressway (S8), if not what is a problem with that section and when it will be an expressway?


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

rakcancer said:


> S8 missing part between left and right bank of the Wisla river in Warsaw - what is the current status of this part? As I remember it has full expressway profile with all two- level intersections. If so, shouldn't it be marked as expressway (S8), if not what is a problem with that section and when it will be an expressway?


It's not an expressway because technical requierments are not fulfilled. 

The upgrade of the "Trasa Armii Krajowej" between "Powązkowska" and "Modlińska" junctions is due to start after opening of the Northern Bridge (hopefully late 2011 / early 2012) in order to ease expected traffic disruption.

Most administrative persmissions were granted and EU & domestic funding is secured.


----------



## rakcancer

^^
got it. thank you and one more question if we talking about S8: how about eastern part from Marki to Radzymin? It is one of the most crowded road in Poland. Is there any solution in near future for this part?


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

rakcancer said:


> ^^
> got it. thank you and one more question if we talking about S8: how about eastern part from Marki to Radzymin? It is one of the most crowded road in Poland. Is there any solution in near future for this part?


Obviously an expressway-class bypass of Marki city is needed since... I remember.

Preperations for this project are on an early stage. Environmental Impact Assesment documents are ready (here, but only in polish: http://siskom.waw.pl/s8-marki-radzymin.htm). One environmental permission has already been cancelled after sucessful NIMBY-protest (although, to be honest, in my opinion not everything was ok with this permission).

Anyway, there is no funding secured before 2013. Hopefully, during next revision of national Road & Motorway Construction Programme for years 2011-2015 this urgently needed connection will find it's place as a priority. It deserves it.


----------



## rakcancer

it deserves indeed. thanks for resp


----------



## bebe.2006

A2 Lodz - Warsaw UC:


4d4m5k1 said:


> Przelatywalem kilka dni temu nad Pruszkowem. Widok na Koszajec i Brwinow.


----------



## TheFlyPL

Part of the newly opened bypass A8.


----------



## ufonut

Construction of S8 (Bialystok-Jezewo) from above:


----------



## bleetz

Good stuff, great to see work being done in the north east!


----------



## bebe.2006

First section of A8 opened yesterday. From Wroclaw Airport towards south:


----------



## Matz32Z

A8 Lotnisko-Kobierzyce HD





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSosIY5_eFU


----------



## kmieciu

*S3 Międzyrzecz-Sulechów_Section I - dated 30.04.2011r.*

source

*S3 Międzyrzecz-Sulechów_Section I - dated 30.04.2011r.*


----------



## kmieciu

*S3 Międzyrzecz-Sulechów_Section II - dated 30.04.2011r.*

source
*
S3 Międzyrzecz-Sulechów_Section II - dated 30.04.2011r.*


----------



## kmieciu

*S3 Międzyrzecz-Sulechów_Section III - dated 30.04.2011r.*

source

*S3 Międzyrzecz-Sulechów_Section III - dated 30.04.2011r.*


----------



## ksjohansen1

*A8 questions*

2 questions about the A8-ring - I have been trying to read the Polish forums, but I am not sure I understand 100%:

What are the plans for the Eastern bypass around Wroclaw? Has it been designated with an S-number? I saw drawings illustrating a four lane connection at Bielany.

What is the current status of the A8 toll discussions?


----------



## Nowax

^^ Krakow - north bypass ^^

by BobBudowniczy :cheers:


----------



## jeremiash

ksjohansen1 said:


> 2 questions about the A8-ring - I have been trying to read the Polish forums, but I am not sure I understand 100%:
> 
> What are the plans for the Eastern bypass around Wroclaw? Has it been designated with an S-number? I saw drawings illustrating a four lane connection at Bielany.
> 
> What is the current status of the A8 toll discussions?


1. So far there are no plans to build the eastern bypass of wroclaw as an S road. At the moment parts of it are being built as a single carriageway road, but eventually it's meant to become a dual carriageway road. From what i just read i can tell that it's gonna take at least 5/6 years for it to be completed. All bridges and viaducts are being built to hold two carriageways, right now, the bridge in Łany is almost done, a part of the bypass between Siechnica and Łany is being built. But apparently there's a problem with the connection of the bypass to A4, between Żerniki Wrocławskie and Bielany, someone didn't buy the land between them soon enough, so there's gonna be a big problem (as in bloody difficult to deal with the people) with fitting 2 carriageways there. So they changed the plan so as to connect Żerniki to Krajków, but the people of Żerniki protested, so they returned to the original idea. You know how it is :lol: We'll see what comes of all this.

2. As for the tolls, it is still unclear. For sure no PkW will have to pay, but so far it looks as though all LkW are going to have to pay with the 1st of July when electronic tolling starts. It's hard to tell whether this will change. Again, we'll wait and see what happens.


----------



## bebe.2006

by Superkot634:








I like this sign.


----------



## lulek89

Few photos from A8 Wroclaw bypass:


Entering A8 from part of S8 opened few months ago: 















































[/QUOTE]


----------



## lulek89

End of this part:









More (60) photos in my Picasa 

:cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

These noise barriers are quite large for what is basically only a semi-urban area. In Western Europe you'll only find such screens in heavily urbanized areas with lots of buildings immediately along the motorway, and sometimes not even that


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## don.lpz

ChrisZwolle said:


> These noise barriers are quite large for what is basically only a semi-urban area. In Western Europe you'll only find such screens in heavily urbanized areas with lots of buildings immediately along the motorway, and sometimes not even that


Wroclaw have really ambitious plans to expand, so in couple of years this green areas will change.


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## Blaskovitz

ksjohansen1 said:


> 2 questions about the A8-ring - I have been trying to read the Polish forums, but I am not sure I understand 100%:
> 
> What are the plans for the Eastern bypass around Wroclaw? Has it been designated with an S-number? I saw drawings illustrating a four lane connection at Bielany.
> 
> What is the current status of the A8 toll discussions?



Eastern bypass will be normaln DK road 2x2 - DK8 Via Romana.


A8- tollfree,


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## bebe.2006

New section of S7 near Kielce. 17 kilometrs in 48 seconds:


many94 said:


> Dość ciekawie uwieczniony przejazd :


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## treichard

lulek89 said:


>


When the Wroclaw bypass is completed, will E67 be signed along it, too?


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## Sponsor

As far as I know E-numbers show on intersections with another one, for example on A4/A8 (E40/E67) interchange.


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## Widur

lulek89 said:


>


I wonder how this fox/cat has entered onto road


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## jwojcie

ChrisZwolle said:


> These noise barriers are quite large for what is basically only a semi-urban area. In Western Europe you'll only find such screens in heavily urbanized areas with lots of buildings immediately along the motorway, and sometimes not even that


If I'm not mistaken nowadays regulations concerning noice are just a lot harsher than in times when many western roads were build. If GDDIK didn't have to they wouldn't build such barriers (which btw are smaller than simple barriers thanks to elliptic shape).


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## ksjohansen1

Very interesting stuff! Thanks a lot, it beats my Polish reading skills trying to grasp that kind of problems - but entertaining, yes!




jeremiash said:


> 1. So far there are no plans to build the eastern bypass of wroclaw as an S road. At the moment parts of it are being built as a single carriageway road, but eventually it's meant to become a dual carriageway road. From what i just read i can tell that it's gonna take at least 5/6 years for it to be completed. All bridges and viaducts are being built to hold two carriageways, right now, the bridge in Łany is almost done, a part of the bypass between Siechnica and Łany is being built. But apparently there's a problem with the connection of the bypass to A4, between Żerniki Wrocławskie and Bielany, someone didn't buy the land between them soon enough, so there's gonna be a big problem (as in bloody difficult to deal with the people) with fitting 2 carriageways there. So they changed the plan so as to connect Żerniki to Krajków, but the people of Żerniki protested, so they returned to the original idea. You know how it is :lol: We'll see what comes of all this.
> 
> 2. As for the tolls, it is still unclear. For sure no PkW will have to pay, but so far it looks as though all LkW are going to have to pay with the 1st of July when electronic tolling starts. It's hard to tell whether this will change. Again, we'll wait and see what happens.


This really puzzles me, if you want the traffic routed around Wroclaw. I know Italy have toll free ring roads for the same reasons (not sure about the LKW status though). Besides extra income, I fail to see the idea? 

Have you seen any projected maps of the current ideas for an Eastern ring road Bielany connections? I see the challenge - not much space left! Is there a project website for the whole stretch to A8? 

Going from Krakow I was wondering if there are plans to make an A4-exit east of Bielany. Routing more traffic via Bielany is just nuts - I wonder if it will ever be a smooth entry to the city again - ring road or not


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## bebe.2006

ChrisZwolle said:


> These noise barriers are quite large for what is basically only a semi-urban area. In Western Europe you'll only find such screens in heavily urbanized areas with lots of buildings immediately along the motorway, and sometimes not even that


Exactly. When I see the pictures I must ask: Why so many?



garym said:


>


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## Blaskovitz

*S69 Bielsko Biała - Żywiec*



carbonaut said:


> Z sobotniego spacerku życie na Langiewicza.





carbonaut said:


> A tak wygląda Wyzwolenia.
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> Światełko prześwitu znacznie się powiększa
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> Odnosi się wrażenie, że ten wiadukt jakiś niski ... dla krasnali





carbonaut said:


> Tam gdzie S1 kończy swoje fundusze a S69 twierdzi , że je jeszcze ma...?
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> Funkel nówka przystaneczek. Jeszcze ciepły.
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> Eko colour
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> Zaczajone mycie
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> Witosa po zolu
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> Schody do nieba.
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> A teraz moi mili przerwa na :cheers:



*A1 Grudziądz - Toruń *



karol.ldz said:


> Bardzo dziękuję za organizację
> 
> Klika średnich fotek ode mnie.





karol.ldz said:


>





karol.ldz said:


>





karol.ldz said:


>





mareksaw_cg said:


> No to może jeszcze jeszcze kilka zdjęć ode mnie z małymi komentarzami...
> 
> ...oczekując na wszystkich mieliśmy okazję poznać kilka ciekawostek dotyczących A1, m.in., że rekordzista jechał autostradą 305 km/h oraz dlaczego minister Grabarczyk występował na budowie w odwróconym kasku i kamizelce na lewej stronie.
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> Na estakadzie trwają obecnie prace nawierzchniowe (izolacja, układanie krawężników):
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> Wracamy wzdłuż budowanej autostrady...
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> ...obok mostu MA-89 nad Mątawą...
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> 
> Mamy nadzieję, że nie była to ostatnia taka wycieczka...
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> M





Sobolek88 said:


> 6.05.2011
> 
> Most autostradowy nad Wisłą (MA-145), OUA w Grabowcu koło Torunia, wiadukt autostradowy WA-145
> 
> Obecnie trwają prace wykończeniowe na obu nitkach (zabezpieczanie powierzchni betonowych) Dodatkowo prowadzone są prace remontowe na starej nitce czyli wymiana nawierzchni, wymiana izolacji, renowacja kap chodnikowych wraz z wymianą barierek.
> Nowa nitka zyskała deski gzymsowe w kolorze żółtym (podobnie jak na moście w Grudziądzu), stara nitka póki co dalej jest w barwach czerwonych ale to pewnie tylko kwestia czasu. Słupy oświetleniowe zostały przeniesione na nową nitkę mostu i zamontowane na specjalnie do tego celu stworzonych wspornikach.
> Baza budowy firmy Bilfinger Berger została już zlikwidowana. Jedynie część urządzeń i elementów zaplecza zostało przeniesione na most (stara nitka).
> Dobiega końca budowa OUA w Grabowcu. Wszystkie budynki są w trakcie prac wykończeniowych. Rozpoczyna się budowa hali.
> 
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> Widok z wiaduktu drogowego (WD-139) w kierunku Gdańska:
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> ... w kierunku Łodzi
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> Dojazd do mostu autostradowego nad Wisłą (kierunek Gdańsk)
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> ...kierunek Lódź:
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> Obwód Utrzymania Autostrady w Grabowcu (budynek biurowy, bydynek z zapleczem sanitarnym (chyba), garaże, magazyn na sół oraz widoczne słupy budowanej hali). OUA w Grabowcu powstał w całości na terenie zaplecza budowy mostu z przed 15 lat. Teren jest podzielony na dwie części, pomiędzy przebiega jeden z wjazdów awaryjnych/technicznych na autostradę.
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> Wiadukt autostradowy (WA-144) nad DW654 (obie nitki po remoncie)
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> Most autostradowy nad Wisłą: (MA-145)





karol.ldz said:


>


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## ufonut

Bypass of Wroclaw A8 



















A4/A8 Junction










A8 U/C near the stadium


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## drowningman666

when will be A8 near the stadium opened ??


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## wdw35

Ummm.. Hmm? Where does that go?









(From post #6037, three posts above)


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## andrzejj9

drowningman666 said:


> when will be A8 near the stadium opened ??


July or October, not certain yet..


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## bebe.2006

A4 east of Rzeszow towards Ukrainian border u/c:



energetus said:


> 22.04.2011
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## bleetz

Are there any plans for a northern east-west motorway (kind of like the A2 and the A4 but in the north) in Poland? It could go from the border crossing near Grodno via Augustow, Elk, Olsztyn all the way to the western border. That would be pretty cool! I think the AADT would be quite large, as it would be the main route for trucks from Russia, Belarus and most of Russia to the west. At the same time it would take pressure off the A2 and the Warsaw ring road. No?


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## Sponsor

bleetz said:


> I think the AADT would be quite large, as it would be the main route for trucks from Russia, Belarus and most of Russia to the west.


Well, first we need to build where it's urgent and average daily traffic is high at the moment.


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## toonczyk

bleetz said:


> Are there any plans for a northern east-west motorway (kind of like the A2 and the A4 but in the north) in Poland? It could go from the border crossing near Grodno via Augustow, Elk, Olsztyn all the way to the western border. That would be pretty cool! I think the AADT would be quite large, as it would be the main route for trucks from Russia, Belarus and most of Russia to the west. At the same time it would take pressure off the A2 and the Warsaw ring road. No?


Every now and then somebody proposes to revive the concept of A6 ("Berlinka") motorway, but it's not going to happen. Traffic on E28 international route is nowhere near the amounts on E30 (A2 motorway). The part of "Berlinka" west of A1 is going to be built in the form of S6 expressway, although it is situated farther to the north than the proponents of A6 wanted (the reason is that this way it's going to service some large cities like Koszalin and Słupsk, while the proposed A6 corridor would serve only long range transit). The eastern part of this route is going to go through the southern bypass of Gdańsk (S7) and the S22 expressway (which was actually built on the remains of German-built part of "Berlinka"). The only reason to build a latitudinal motorway between, say, Grudziądz and Grodno, would be to create a secondary, Shengen-only corridor for E28. But most of transit already uses E30+E67, so there is no need for that.


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## bigalowski

thanks, I meant the construction of the motorway or expressway. In my opinion this should be priority to the Lover Silesia Voivodeship authorities right now. Current road is not only congested but also dangerous. Say, are there any remains in Poland of the original Strecke 88 you might know of? I know there is some in Czech Republik. As a matter of fact some sections have been finished and are in use.


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## Mateusz

bigalowski said:


> thanks, I meant the construction of the motorway or expressway. In my opinion this should be priority to the Lover Silesia Voivodeship authorities right now. Current road is not only congested but also dangerous. Say, are there any remains in Poland of the original Strecke 88 you might know of? I know there is some in Czech Republik. As a matter of fact some sections have been finished and are in use.


Fantasies of Lower Silesian Voivodship are not binding for central authorities in Warsaw. There are other prorities and such visions have to wait.


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## rakcancer

For Lower Silesia like for the half of Poland would be much more important to build S5 between Wroclaw and A1 in Grudziadz. it would connect three economically important cities: Wroclaw, Poznan and Gdansk - which are also going to be a host cities for upcoming Euro2012 tournament. Apparently this is not priority for our government.


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## ChrisZwolle

I think the first concern is to build a Warszawa - Katowice - Wien motorway. Then the old Wroclaw - Wien motorway could be revived. But quite frankly I think Wrocław - Praha is more important right now than Wrocław - Wien.


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## bleetz

I wonder what the situation with Via Carpatia is. Does anybody still talk about this project?


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## rakcancer

Via Carpatia = S19(most of it). Not much is happening at the present just a bit of work around bigger cities: Rzeszow, Lublin and Bialystok plus two bypasses of smaller towns. Whole concept of via Carpatia was mostly highlighted by previous government pushing strongly concept of decreasing of differences between eastern less developed part and the rest of Poland. Although common sense and lack of money made this project is moved to the future (probably after 2015) and helping to finance and focuse on other important north-south projects like A1, S7, S8, S3.


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## bleetz

Since Via Carpatia is supposed to include the section Bialystok-Augustow, wouldn't it make more sense to start building that section first, given that Bialystok-Warsaw is largely U/C or complete? This way Via Baltica from Augustow to Zambrow wouldn't even be needed and most of Augustow - Warsaw would be good. To be honest, the current plan to build Via Baltica and Via Carpatia in north-eastern Poland doesn't make much sense to me. It does seem quite "luxurious" to have two good roads from Zambrow to Augustow. They could just build a Bialystok - Augustow section and that would be fine as the distance is pretty much the same. Surely if you take away all transit traffic then S61 north of Zambrow wouldn't really be needed (?). Of course it would be great to have both roads but it seems like we are not getting any of them any time soon, so why not just go with one, i.e. Augustow (Budzisko?) - Bialystok?


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## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think the first concern is to build a Warszawa - Katowice - Wien motorway. Then the old Wroclaw - Wien motorway could be revived. But quite frankly I think Wrocław - Praha is more important right now than Wrocław - Wien.


I agree. I drove from Warsaw to Vienna in October and it was quite a mix of good new roads and bad old roads. From Katowice to Vienna there is a choice of indirect routes, none of which are good.


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## rakcancer

bleetz said:


> Since Via Carpatia is supposed to include the section Bialystok-Augustow, wouldn't it make more sense to start building that section first, given that Bialystok-Warsaw is largely U/C or complete? This way Via Baltica from Augustow to Zambrow wouldn't even be needed and most of Augustow - Warsaw would be good. To be honest, the current plan to build Via Baltica and Via Carpatia in north-eastern Poland doesn't make much sense to me. It does seem quite "luxurious" to have two good roads from Zambrow to Augustow. They could just build a Bialystok - Augustow section and that would be fine as the distance is pretty much the same. Surely if you take away all transit traffic then S61 north of Zambrow wouldn't really be needed (?). Of course it would be great to have both roads but it seems like we are not getting any of them any time soon, so why not just go with one, i.e. Augustow (Budzisko?) - Bialystok?


You are right. It seems so easy and smart especially if you look at the map. Reality is a bit different. Two reasons: 1) The strong lobby of Lomza city forced our previous government to quit working on Via Baltica through Bialystok and build it as S61 through Lomza instead. 2) Environmental issues on planned section between Augustow and Bialystok. All that made any plans regarding road Bialystok - Augustow be put aside for the future.


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## Nowax

Wroclaw - A8






































This bridge has the highest bridge pylon in Poland. :cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

The S61 Łomża variant is actually quite a bit shorter for traffic from Lithuania to Warszawa than S8 via Białystok would have been.


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## rakcancer

True, but it will serve for fewer people. 65K Lomza is no match for 300K Bialystok.


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## ChrisZwolle

Sure, but Białystok will still be served by S8 and S19.


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## bigalowski

mcarling said:


> I agree. I drove from Warsaw to Vienna in October and it was quite a mix of good new roads and bad old roads. From Katowice to Vienna there is a choice of indirect routes, none of which are good.


A1 from Sośnica Intercharge all the way to the Polish Czech border should be opened soon. Anyone knows the deadline of the remaining sections to be opened? Alsp the Czechs (PL - CZ border Ostrava section) should be done pretty much soon!


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## ChrisZwolle

I'd count on at least another year before A1/D1 will open completely. Probably early 2012.


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## bleetz

ChrisZwolle said:


> The S61 Łomża variant is actually quite a bit shorter for traffic from Lithuania to Warszawa than S8 via Białystok would have been.


30 km shorter, yes, but given that S8 to Bialystok is more or less U/C, it would require a similar (or lower) amount of work and would serve more people. Of course if there are environmental issues then it is a different story. I hate environmental issues


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## rakcancer

.... I hate environmental issues :([/QUOTE said:


> So do I. We have that problem especially in North-East. On the other hand we learned a bitter lesson quiting after trying to build Augustow bypass against clear rules Natura 2000 which we (our government) applied itself few years earlier.


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## mcarling

bigalowski said:


> A1 from Sośnica Intercharge all the way to the Polish Czech border should be opened soon. Anyone knows the deadline of the remaining sections to be opened? Alsp the Czechs (PL - CZ border Ostrava section) should be done pretty much soon!


I chose the A1 to D1 when I drove it last time, primarily because I was curious to see the construction. Since then, more of the A1 has opened, but not all. Vienna -> Brno also includes either old roads or a significant detour via Bratislava.

I'm tempted to try Vienna -> Bratislava -> Zilina -> Krakow -> Warsaw when I drive it in July. I'm open to suggestions.


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## Fuzzy Llama

mcarling said:


> I chose the A1 to D1 when I drove it last time, primarily because I was curious to see the construction. Since then, more of the A1 has opened, but not all. Vienna -> Brno also includes either old roads or a significant detour via Bratislava.
> 
> I'm tempted to try Vienna -> Bratislava -> Zilina -> Krakow -> Warsaw when I drive it in July. I'm open to suggestions.


In my personal experience, Vienna - Brno - Olomouc - Ostrava - Katowice - Warsaw is better. There is some non-motorway stretch between Vienna and Brno, but the road there is wide and it doesn't go through many villages. Apart from that, it's motorway all the way till Polish border (mind that Google Maps aren't up-to-date concerning Czech and Polish motorway network), and then the combination of DW932, A1, A4, DK86, DK1 and DK8 gives you decent enough connection (well, apart from the bit of DK8 from Tomaszów Mazowiecki till Warsaw which is currently undergoing reconstruction, but it's hard to bypass even when going through Slovakia)

On the other hand, road from Żilina to Cieszyn is crappy in every meaning of this word and I hate it with every fibre of my being


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## mcarling

Fuzzy Llama said:


> In my personal experience, Vienna - Brno - Olomouc - Ostrava - Katowice - Warsaw is better.


That's about how I drove last time.



Fuzzy Llama said:


> On the other hand, road from Żilina to Cieszyn is crappy in every meaning of this word and I hate it with every fibre of my being


Thanks, but what about the road from Zilina to Zywiec? Cieszyn is out of the way to get to Krakow.


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## Superkot634

*Condition of national roads in Poland*



Green - Good condition
Yellow - Medium condition
Orange - Bad condition


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## jeremiash

since "niezadowalajacy" means unsatisfactory, translating it as "medium condition" is kind of an overstatement, don't you think?


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## Hanno1983

rakcancer said:


> A 18 has no luck and is a shame when you crossing a border from German side. Once again because of environmental issues and lack of money. Westbound side has been rebuilt over 10 years ago, eastbound wasn't as I know since it was built before II WW.


Yes, it is a shame.
Under this aspect as well I would prefer if whole traffic used northern lane of the motorway until the southern one will be rebuilt.


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## kooba

Hanno1983 said:


> Yes, it is a shame.
> Under this aspect as well I would prefer if whole traffic used northern lane of the motorway until the southern one will be rebuilt.


But police doesn't prefer that. They claim that while northern lane was under construction, and whole traffic use southern, there was a lot of accidents. So they don't allow use of one lane. 

And in my opinion it's not so stupid. Right now we have half of full standard motorway, and half where you can drive safely, but slower. I think in our situation, where it looks like most of the polish drivers are crazy (and i mean overtaking) two lane traffic is always better.


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## Superkot634

jeremiash said:


> since "niezadowalajacy" means unsatisfactory, translating it as "medium condition" is kind of an overstatement, don't you think?


To what extent?


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## toonczyk

kooba said:


> And in my opinion it's not so stupid. Right now we have half of full standard motorway, and half where you can drive safely, but slower. I think in our situation, where it looks like most of the polish drivers are crazy (and i mean overtaking) two lane traffic is always better.


I actually agree with you. Current situation is far from perfect, but in terms of safety it's way ahead of closing down the southern carriageway and making the northern one bidirectional. I'm pretty sure that wide lanes and good visibility would trigger some insane overtaking maneuvers...





^^ That's what you get very commonly in Poland on straight and wide roads...


----------



## bigalowski

that's another example of road raging, he's forcing the car driver to use the hard shoulder. Very stupid!!!


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## ChrisZwolle

Maybe I missed it, but are there already official statistics about the traffic fatalities in 2010?


----------



## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> Maybe I missed it, but are there already official statistics about the traffic fatalities in 2010?


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=73606297


----------



## Hanno1983

kooba said:


> But police doesn't prefer that. They claim that while northern lane was under construction, and whole traffic use southern, there was a lot of accidents. So they don't allow use of one lane.
> 
> And in my opinion it's not so stupid. Right now we have half of full standard motorway, and half where you can drive safely, but slower. I think in our situation, where it looks like most of the polish drivers are crazy (and i mean overtaking) two lane traffic is always better.


It's unterstandable and I got to know the problem with overtaking on Polish roads.
But northern lane of A18 is brider than southern one. It could be marked in 2+1. Then there shouldn't be many accidents because of overtaking.
By the way, on northern lane speet limit is lower than 130 km/h now regardless of motorway standard. I think it is 100 or 110 km/h.


----------



## Beck's

jeremiash said:


> since "niezadowalajacy" means unsatisfactory, translating it as "medium condition" is kind of an overstatement, don't you think?


That means "medium condition", whithout any holes, ruts, however with patches. You don't feel bigger discomfort when you drive, however the driving is not as comfortable as on the good and very good road.


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## butch83

toonczyk said:


> I actually agree with you. Current situation is far from perfect, but in terms of safety it's way ahead of closing down the southern carriageway and making the northern one bidirectional. I'm pretty sure that wide lanes and good visibility would trigger some insane overtaking maneuvers...


I did this stretch of A18 at least few hundred times, The traffic is very low to the extend that sometimes one drives minutes without seeing any car or truck, which is extremely uncommon on other national roads in Poland. I agree it is safer now, but quality of southern lane is pathetic. Northern stretch is wide enough to make 2+1 swedish style out of it and that imo should be done.
edit:I guess Hanno1983 already covered that issue


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## toonczyk

butch83 said:


> Northern stretch is wide enough to make 2+1 swedish style out of it and that imo should be done.


Agreed, 2+1 with line barrier in the middle would be the best solution.


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## ufonut

S11 (Western bypass of Poznan) by Carte (lots of good photos).

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=331159&page=103


----------



## mr.cool

Anyone got a latest map? My relatives are going to be travelling from Zakopane to Zamosc in a few days time so what would be the quickest but most comfortable route to go by?


----------



## mcarling

mr.cool said:


> Anyone got a latest map? My relatives are going to be travelling from Zakopane to Zamosc in a few days time so what would be the quickest but most comfortable route to go by?


A map was posted in this thread in late April. Looking at that map and Google maps, it seems like a long, slow, uncomfortable trip. The fastest way is probably to leave at first light and get past Krakow before the commute traffic starts. If someone else has first-hand information, go with that. I only looked at the maps.


----------



## maciekph

mcarling said:


> A map was posted in this thread in late April. Looking at that map and Google maps, it seems like a long, slow, uncomfortable trip. The fastest way is probably to leave at first light and get past Krakow before the commute traffic starts. If someone else has first-hand information, go with that. I only looked at the maps.


That's right.

Then there are 2 possibilities from Krakow to Zamosc: use DK4 to Rzeszow and DK19 to Zamosc or DK79 to Sandomierz and DK77, DK19, DK74 to reach Zamosc.

First option using DK4 is much more crowded that DK79 option.
Quality of road pavement is better on DK4 IMHO.

1st: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...=50.025388,21.711731&spn=1.086961,2.90863&z=9

Here we can consider using google map's shortcut and turn right in Myslenice heading Łapczyca/Bochnia via DW964 via Dobczyce but I don't know the quality of that road.

2nd: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...8,21.56078&sspn=2.174603,5.817261&ie=UTF8&z=8


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## ufonut

A4 Szarow-Tarnow (a bit dated)



Stradie said:


> Nie wiem czy były tutaj umieszczane poniższe zdjęcia. Niestety zrobione 20 dni temu, więc trochę nieaktualne:





Stradie said:


> Wygrzebane z przed miesiąca.
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> Źródło:http://www.rdn.pl/d_galeria/index.php?rdg=0150220114
> 
> Prace są teraz bardziej zaawansowane. Jest to fotorelacja z 28.4.2011


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## ChrisZwolle

What is that old bridge pier across the Dunajec near Tarnów? I noticed that one on Google Earth as well.


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## Chris80678

There aren't many motorways left to be opened this year are there? I can 
only think of these:

A8 Wrocław airport - Wrocław Psie Pole (15th June 2011)

A1 Nowy Marzy - Toruń (September 2011)

A2 Polish/German border - Nowy Tomyśl (31st December 2011)

Have I missed any out? Expressway openings in 2011 perhaps?


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## PLH

*A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl*



autostrada-a2.pl said:


> Budowa górnego przejścia dla zwierząt na odcinku Świecko - Rzepin:
> 
> 
> Budowa jezdni południowej i układanie nawierzchni w technologii white topping w okolicach Świecka
> 
> 
> Budowa mostów i wiaduktów autostradowych na odcinku Łagów - Jordanowo
> 
> 
> Budowa mrozoochronnej warstwy nawierzchni
> 
> 
> Budowa OUA Biały Mur
> 
> 
> Budowa węzła Rzepin
> 
> 
> Górne przejście dla zwierząt w okolicach Trzciela
> 
> 
> Górne przejście dla zwierząt na odcinku Świecko - Rzepin
> 
> 
> Górne przejście dla zwierząt w okolicach Świecka
> 
> 
> Górne przejście dla zwierząt w pobliżu Trzciela
> 
> 
> Grunty słabonośne i wiadukt autostradowy w okolicach Lubrzy


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## PLH

autostrada-a2.pl said:


> Most nad rzeką Bobrówka - przejście dla zwierząt
> 
> 
> Most nad rzeką Ilanka oraz przejście dla zwierząt
> 
> 
> Nasuwanie konstrukcji mostowej w pobliżu gruntów słabonośnych w okolicach Lubrzy
> 
> 
> Nawierzchnia betonowa i budowa ekranów akustycznych na odcinku Rzepin - Torzym
> 
> 
> Nawierzchnia betonowa na odcinku Jordanowo - Myszęcin
> 
> 
> Nawierzchnia betonowa na odcinku Myszęcin - Trzciel
> 
> 
> Przejście górne dla zwierząt na odcinku Trzciel - Nowy Tomyśl
> 
> 
> Układanie nawierzchni betonowej na odcinku Jordanowo - Myszęcin
> 
> 
> Układanie nawierzchni betonowej na odcinku Myszęcin - Trzciel
> 
> 
> Układanie nawierzchni betonowej na odcinku Torzym - Łagów
> 
> 
> Węzeł Nowy Tomyśl
> 
> 
> Węzeł Rzepin
> 
> 
> Węzeł Torzym i OUA Ilanka


...


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## toonczyk

Chris80678 said:


> Have I missed any out? Expressway openings in 2011 perhaps?


You can always find up-to-date (quite, updated very often) information here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=67459719&postcount=16
Columns from left to right:
Road number, section, length, opening date according to the contract, expected opening date, days added (or subtracted) from the original date, days until opening (last updated May 22), days late, investor, contractor.

This table also gives you some insight into how much is going on here, and it doesn't include any roadworks (bypasses etc.) which are not A/S grade.


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## ufonut

S69 by Marek Kocjan



marek_kocjan said:


> Aktualizacja zdjęć lotniczych - http://www.kocjan.pl/thumbnails-68.html
> 
> Węzeł Suchy Potok oraz dwa wiadukty nad obwodnicą - ul. Wyzwolenia oraz Witosa:
> 
> 
> Węzeł Mikuszowice:


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## kmieciu

*S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów section I*

S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów section I source


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## kmieciu

*S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów section I*

S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów section I source


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## kmieciu

*S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów section II*

S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów section II source


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## kmieciu

*S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów section III*

S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów section III source


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## kmieciu

*S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów section III*

S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów section III source


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## ufonut

A4 highway near Rzeszow Airport


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## rakcancer

^^
Are you sure this is A4? Not S19? Somehow to close to the airport


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## ChrisZwolle

I think it's both. A4 is the east-west route, and S19 joins it for a few kilometers.


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## mcarling

Yes, it's both. The current S19 is visible running N/S at the right side of the photo and running under an overpass which is under construction. The small portion of the highway to the right of the intersection (the lower right corner of the photo) will be A4 only. The large portion of the new highway to the left of the intersection will be both A4 and S19.


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## rakcancer

Yes you are right. I just wasn't aware that A4 is going to be much closer to the airport than to the outscirts of Rzeszow.


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## DocentX

*A1 motorway* :

Nowe Marzy - Toruń :


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## Nowax

DTS Zabrze by gpj70


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## Nowax

Krakow - North Bypass (by sprezynaKRK) :cheers:


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## Nowax

Krakow - North Bypass (by sprezynaKRK)


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## bleetz

New stuff in Poland just looks fantastic kay:


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## ufonut

A1 Grudziadz - Torun



wojk said:


> Węzeł Lubicz, foto od GTC:
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> 
> 
> I jeszcze MOP Nowa Wieś k. Torunia wraz z PPO - źródło GTC:





Torrr said:


> "Strzały komórkowe" z węzła Lubicz.
> 
> Dla orientacji zdjęcie lotnicze węzła Lubicz powyżej oraz mapka
> 
> 
> Nowa dwujezdniowa DK 80 - granica odcinków Skanska/Eurovia. Widok w stronę Torunia ( Eurovia ) :
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> W stronę Warszawy ( Skanska ) :
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> Łącznice ( od lewej Gdańsk -> SPO Lubicz i SPO -> Łódź ) :
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> To samo razem z WA 131 :
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> Skrzyżowanie nowej S10 z DW 552/starą DK80 . W lewo DW 552 na Grębocin ( DK15 ) /Łysomice( DK1 ) , w prawo stara DK 80 (Toruń ) , prosto DK 10 ( Warszawa ) :
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> Do tyłu ( 7 bramek wyjazdowych ) :
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> Łącznica Łódź -> SPO ( "pod prąd" ):
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> A1 w stronę Łodzi:
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> W stronę Gdańska ( na pierwszym planie WA131 dalej WD 130 ( nowa dwujezdniowa DK 80 ) , a na horyzoncie WD 129 (DW 552 ):
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> Łącznice od lewej Gdańsk->SPO i SPO->Łódz ( widok z WA131 ):
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> Widok na A1 z tego samego miejsca w stronę Łodzi , w prawo zjazd z Gdańska na SPO , w tle wiadukt starej DK 80 ( WD 134 ) :
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> To samo z powietrza ( GTC ) jeszcze przed WD 134 (stara DK80 ) :
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----------



## brewerfan386

^^
Does 'tender' mean 'bid' or 'let' in the American sense? And why would a bunch of RL experts offering a bunch of non-tenders (or whatever) out side of SSC cause a bunch of personal attacks here? How is this illegal? (I'm confused) :?


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## toonczyk

Well, sorry for not being precise enough. There are some rumors that this section of A2 will be finished (if COVEC indeed abandon the construction site) without construction bidding. This is not allowed by our law, except in "extraordinary circumstances". Those extraordinary circumstances are supposed to mean for example repairing a bridge destroyed by some natural disaster etc. - things that have to be done quick, otherwise public interest is seriously endangered. The situation right now is - in my opinion - absolutely not extraordinary, so it would be illegal for the investor to continue the construction by private contract, without the tender process. Yet lots of people claiming otherwise (I called them experts ironically) flooded the A2 thread with, well, nonsense and personal attacks. Probably this is not the place to talk about it, but I'm just trying to convey how dense the atmosphere here is


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, prestige is probably not "extraordinary". While not having A2 completed before Euro 2012 is annoying, it's not the end of the world, the A2 is most certainly not build for the sole purpose of serving Euro 2012.


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## brewerfan386

^^
Thanks for the explanation now I understand.


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yes, prestige is probably not "extraordinary". While not having A2 completed before Euro 2012 is annoying, it's not the end of the world, the A2 is most certainly not build for the sole purpose of serving Euro 2012.


Now tell this ordinary people, mass media and political oposition.


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## brewerfan386

Poolek said:


> I had the opportunity to fly single-engine aircraft over the construction of the A2 segment Konotopa Stryków.
> 
> I put a total of 50 images (10 per post) in the order they do on the side of the river until the node Stryków in Lodz. Photos belt construction begins at the height of Grodzisk Mazowiecki.
> 
> Unfortunately I did not have much concentration and time to make accurate descriptions of the objects visible in the pictures. Anyway, just from the air you can see how many different types of buildings, bridges, viaducts, culverts, transitions, etc. This shows the movie, which I put at the very end - takes less than a minute and shows a view from the plane to the runway construction around the Bolimów.
> 
> I hope that it will be a nice change after last nerve messages and many posts concerning the continuation of construction by COVEC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> 1. Przypominam - początek na wysokosci Grodziska Maz.
> 
> 2.
> 
> 3.
> 
> 4.
> 
> 5.
> 
> 6.
> 
> 7.
> 
> 8.
> 
> 9.
> 
> 10.


 I translated the intro.


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## brewerfan386

Poolek said:


> 11.
> 
> 12.
> 
> 13.
> 
> 14.
> 
> 15. Przecięcie A2 z budową obwodnicy Żyrardowa w ciągu DK50, czyli okolice Wiskitek
> 
> 16.
> 
> 17.
> 
> 18.
> 
> 19.
> 
> 20.


...


----------



## LMB

jeremiash said:


> i just remembered some more details. COVEC is complaing that the investor (GDDKIA) isn't flexible and doesn't want to renegotiate the terms


I've heard something more pathetic: "GDDKiA pays on the last day and ignores COVEC's pleas to pay earlier". The most idiotic whine I've ever heard. 

It looks like the Chinese either got wet feet for some reason, or have found another (perhaps cheaper?) way to get into the European market.


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## brewerfan386

Poolek said:


> 21.
> 
> 22.
> 
> 23.
> 
> 24.
> 
> 25.
> 
> 26.
> 
> 27.
> 
> 28.
> 
> 29. Mniej więcej od tego miejsca jesteśmy już za Skierniewicami.
> 
> 30.


...


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## brewerfan386

Poolek said:


> 31.
> 
> 32.
> 
> 33.
> 
> 34.
> 
> 35.
> 
> 36.
> 
> 37.
> 
> 38.
> 
> 39. I widok przez tylne okno, w stronę Warszawy


...


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## brewerfan386

Poolek said:


> 40.
> 
> 41.
> 
> 42.
> 
> 43.
> 
> 44.
> 
> 45.
> 
> 46.
> 
> 47.
> 
> 48.
> 
> 49.
> 
> 50.


...


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## seem

^^ Amazing pictures and I can't believe how flat Poland is. Btw, where I can find up to date map of your network?


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## toonczyk

seem said:


> ^^ Amazing pictures and I can't believe how flat Poland is. Btw, where I can find up to date map of your network?


At least most of Poland is 

You can always find the most up to date information and maps in our statistical thread. Here's map: (green - ready, red - U/C, pink - design phase of design&build contract, yellow - tender, brown - tender for design&build, blue - environmental impact assessment):
http://ssc-mapa.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/nowa-mapa.png


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## Des

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yes, prestige is probably not "extraordinary". While not having A2 completed before Euro 2012 is annoying, it's not the end of the world, the A2 is most certainly not build for the sole purpose of serving Euro 2012.


It would however be a big inconvenience and probably not as much cause the country any damage but lets say it will miss out on a lot of opportunities it would have if the A2 was finished in time for Euro 2012. Imagine all DE and in some extend also UK, NL, BE and FR people including potential tourists and entrepreneurs experience infrastructure upto or even exceeding Western standards this could do Poland a lot of good from a tourist and broader economic point of view. 

Lets hope at least the missing link between the German border and Poznan is finished by then.


----------



## Kuras77

^^
Exactly kay:



toonczyk said:


> The situation right now is - in my opinion - absolutely not extraordinary


Yes, this is just your opinion - many people on this site think otherwise.



toonczyk said:


> Yet lots of people claiming otherwise (I called them experts ironically).


Only because they have a different opinion? Not nice... :down:


----------



## mcarling

Kuras77 said:


> Yes, this is just your opinion - many people on this site think otherwise.


It's not really a matter of opinion. It's a legal question. What does "extraordinary" mean in the legal context. I teach law, though this question is outside my specific expertise, but *toonczyk*'s interpretation seems likely to be correct. I would not want to have the task of trying to convince a judge that "extraordinary" would apply here. I cannot say that the alternative interpretation is entirely without merit. A case could probably be made that "extraordinary" legally includes Euro 2012, but I think it probably would be a weak case.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

LMB said:


> I've heard something more pathetic: "GDDKiA pays on the last day and ignores COVEC's pleas to pay earlier". The most idiotic whine I've ever heard.


Assuming that is true, why don't other constructors complain about it?


----------



## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> Assuming that is true, why don't other constructors complain about it?


Suppose you buy a car on credit and you must pay the bank every month on the 22nd. Every month, you pay on the 22nd. Then the bank complains that you never pay early.


----------



## TheFlyPL

GDDKiA has their money on investments. If they keep it longer on deposite they will earn more interests. Why would they lose those money?


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## mcarling

TheFlyPL said:


> GDDKiA has their money on investments. If they keep it longer on deposite they will earn more interests. Why would they lose those money?


The concept is called time value of money. One euro today is worth more than one euro tomorrow. No one pays tens or hundreds of millions of euro early unless there is an incentive to do so (such as a discount for early payment).


----------



## bebe.2006

New part of Krakow-Ring was opened today:



Teodoryk said:


> przejazd nowootwartym odcinkiem, jakość komórkowa ;(


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## rakcancer

is it north or east part of the ring?


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## jeremiash

north, about 2.6 km long


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## rakcancer

so when east part of the ring will be open?


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## ChrisZwolle

So between DK79 and DK94?


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## jeremiash

@ChrisZwolle
yes
@rakcancer
it will be open once they start and finish building it (only a small fragment is currently done and open, about 3km). They will start building it once they find money for it (next stage is a 5 km long fragment, with a bridge and it's going to cost a lot). Currently the tender is on hold (not canceled), but there's supposed to be news about whether there is enough money by the end of june


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## Warsawbynight

Jakub Warszauer said:


> Now tell this ordinary people, mass media and political oposition.


You, as SISKOM, should be first ones trying to push the government and not to excuse them everytime they fail with something important regarding nearby Warsaw motorway system. 

The government must feel the pressure all the time, in other case they won't do anything in reasonable time. "Ordinary people" understand this simple fact, keeping in mind our "rich" motorway building history from '90 and early 00's


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## PLH

* Interchange Łódź - North*
by Poolek

Looking north, A1:


Looking south, further construction of A1 starts this autumn: 


North once again:






Nearby junction:


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## ChrisZwolle

Last photo: is that toll plaza new? 2009 Google Earth imagery doesn't reveal it.

By the way, Stryków is probably the most famous small town nowadays


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## RipleyLV

ChrisZwolle said:


> Last photo: is that toll plaza new? 2009 Google Earth imagery doesn't reveal it.


That toll plaza and maintenance yard right next to it wasn't there in 2008, it looks recently built.


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## PLH

Yes, the toll plaza in brand new. This section will be tolled starting from July 1st.


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## mapman:cz

ChrisZwolle said:


> By the way, Stryków is probably the most famous small town nowadays


 I agree, as I've seen on polish subforum someone called it "centrum wszechświata"  new Rome - where all roads go to...


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## toonczyk

Stryków is still pretty large compared to Konotopa with its 287 citizens...


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## ChrisZwolle

Konotopa isn't even a village, it's just a street with some farms and a few houses alongside it. Piastów would've been a better name for the A2/S2/S7/S8 interchange. They also made the mistake of naming interchanges to tiny villages in the Netherlands. Some of them became well-known due to traffic information, but others are very obscure.


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Konotopa isn't even a village, it's just a street with some farms and a few houses alongside it. Piastów would've been a better name for the A2/S2/S7/S8 interchange.(...)


*Warsaw - West* is the one and only reasonable possibility.


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## toonczyk

Nothing substantial was announced today after the negotiations witch COVEC. It was announced that they proposed a solution to the problem and "new financial conditions", whatever that means. GDDKiA will now analyze the situation and we'll know something on Monday. Hopefully.


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## Chris80678

Rumour has it that the A8 from Wrocław airport to Psie Pole will not open on
15th June 2011 as planned but has been put back to sometime in July or August hno:


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## jarekles

Chris80678 said:


> Rumour has it that the A8 from Wrocław airport to Psie Pole will not open on
> 15th June 2011 as planned but has been put back to sometime in July or August hno:


but in June should be open from Wroclaw Nord to Dlugoleka (dk.8) and we still wait for the bridge


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## Chris80678

jarekles said:


> but in June should be open from Wroclaw Nord to Dlugoleka (dk.8) and we still wait for the bridge


So there will be a long gap between the end of the A8 motorway at 
Wrocław airport and Wrocław North interchange (5) forcing drivers to come off the S8 and go through Wrocław city centre to connect with the A8 at the airport interchange? :nuts:


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## jarekles

Chris80678 said:


> So there will be a long gap between the end of the A8 motorway at
> Wrocław airport and Wrocław North interchange (5) forcing drivers to come off the S8 and go through Wrocław city centre to connect with the A8 at the airport interchange? :nuts:


we have the inside bypass between the Wroclaw Nord and the Airport.


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## bewu1

Map of Poland with project's end date http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=79345788&postcount=1913


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Wow, you Polish road enthusiasts do a great job in visualizing and logging all statistics, maps, tenders, photo's, etc. of road projects 

Two remarks;

* the missing link of A4 between Brzesko and Tarnów will be highly annoying for a while, because it's not easy to get from DK4 to A4 and vice versa. Ask the people of Targowisko about the 20 000 vehicles using DK75 every day to get to A4. 

* does anyone know what's the reasoning behind the routing of DK79? Most of the DK-roads have a fairly consistent route, but DK79 follows a weird route from Warszawa to Bytom via Sandomierz and Kraków. There are much better routes (DK7 and DK8+DK1) between those points. Only from Warszawa to Sandomierz and from Sandomierz to Kraków does DK79 makes sense.


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## ChrisZwolle

The Drogowa Trasa Średnicowa - the urban expressway, opened today: 4,7 km of new 2x3 expressway (class GP) through the city of Zabrze.


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> * does anyone know what's the reasoning behind the routing of DK79? Most of the DK-roads have a fairly consistent route, but DK79 follows a weird route from Warszawa to Bytom via Sandomierz and Kraków. There are much better routes (DK7 and DK8+DK1) between those points. Only from Warszawa to Sandomierz and from Sandomierz to Kraków does DK79 makes sense.


Don't know the orignal idea, by my personal opinion is that somebody wanted to have a national road alongside Vistula (Warsaw - Cracow), which is quite reasonable. Vistula is still a huge barrier in Poland, particularly between Warsaw and Cracow.

And then someone else also wanted to have another national road from Upper Silesia to Cracow.

In the end they merged it... (?).

It's always one free number more .


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## michael_siberia

Jakub Warszauer said:


> *Warsaw - West* is the one and only reasonable possibility.


But it's the name of the S8/DK92 (present DK2) interchange


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## Jakub Warszauer

michael_siberia said:


> But it's the name of the S8/DK92 (present DK2) interchange


Which is ridiculous.


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## ChrisZwolle

Warszawa-Záchod? But isn't that a normal offramp instead of a motorway-motorway interchange?


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Warszawa-Záchod? But isn't that a normal offramp instead of a motorway-motorway interchange?


In Poland we give names to every exit from expressway and motorway.

This section of DK2 is a 2x2 GP-class road with traffic lights. The size and type of juction was chosen in order to discourage non-locals to use DK2. So it should carry a local name.

*Bronisze* would be perfect in this case.

PS: Warszawa Zachód.


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## bebe.2006

DTS Zabrze:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkGBF_jRIR8&feature=player_embedded


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## rakcancer

Jakub Warszauer said:


> In Poland we give names to every exit from expressway and motorway.
> 
> This section of DK2 is a 2x2 GP-class road with traffic lights. The size and type of juction was chosen in order to discourage non-locals to use DK2. So it should carry a local name.
> 
> *Bronisze* would be perfect in this case.
> 
> PS: Warszawa Zachód.


How about instead of names which are sometimes very confusing especially for foreigners, give every exit number like it is in some other countries ex. in USA?


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## kooba

rakcancer said:


> How about instead of names which are sometimes very confusing especially for foreigners, give every exit number like it is in some other countries ex. in USA?


That would be great, but GDDKiA have different conception, so there is nothing we can do.

In a matter of fact, the more motorways we build, then there is more problem with exit names. GDDKiA don't obey they own rules, and so we have "Wrocław" near Łódź, Wrocław-South,Airport and so on in Wrocław and lot of Stryków, Konotopa, Emilia everywhere (this names are completely anonymous for most of the Poles, unless someone know them as a exit name  ).


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## Jakub Warszauer

rakcancer said:


> How about instead of names which are sometimes very confusing especially for foreigners, give every exit number like it is in some other countries ex. in USA?


In my opinion exit numbers based on road kilometer is the best solution.


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## ChrisZwolle

I prefer distance-based exit numbering plus exit names as well. But those exit names need to be named after the most significant town or city it reasonably serves, not necessarily the closest village or hamlet possible.


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## LMB

Jakub Warszauer said:


> In my opinion exit numbers based on road kilometer is the best solution.


I second that opinion. It used to be like that in the past, I don't know why they changed it.


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## mr.cool

Hi there, can anyone tell me why the Brzesko to Tarnow motorway won't be constructed? And will there be another alternative motorway for this section? Thanks.


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## ChrisZwolle

As far as I know they had the same problems as with A1 Swierklany - Gorzyczki: contractor not doing enough to build the road. There is no alternate motorway, the whole Szarów - Tarnów motorway will be pretty useless without this section in my opinion. Luckily, DK4 is pretty high standard, as is the bypass of Tarnów.


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## Hetman

Jakub Warszauer said:


> In my opinion exit numbers based on road kilometer is the best solution.


I am afraid that it will not be possible until the network of main highways is ready . The road kilometer numbering solution may vary until the network is completed. We don't even know what will be the ultimate road numbers when Poland finalizes its network.

Examples? On the A4 they have already changed kilometer bollards. A1 - we still don't know what's the mileage has to be on the southern sections. The puzzling lottery we have still have on the expressways. Would you number the current exits for S3, S7 or S8?

Too early...


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## rakcancer

I don't get that. Why everything must be so complicated? Numbers doesn't have to relate to the kilometers. Just number exits in order starting from 1 on each Motorway. Let's say Exit 1 is on the north end of A1 near Gdansk and last exit whatever is it's number ex. 55 as the last one before the border with Czech. Any additional exit built on existing motorway/expressway would get number plus letter ex: 11A. Doesn't it make sense? It works well in other countries.


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## jeremiash

^^ i too would like to see exit's on polish motorways/expressways numbered (not by kilometers, by exit numbers) but as Hetman said it's still too early to do so right now (in most cases). If you look at many expressways (just to prove a point look at S7) there is neither a building plan ready, nor has the environmental impact assessment been done for some sections. So it is hard to tell whether the missing kilometers (be it 100, 200 or 50) will hold 10 exits, 15, or perhaps only 5. Sooner or later someone is going to introduce a better exit naming system than "name it after the closest village". But that has to wait at least until more of the network is built.


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## kooba

rakcancer said:


> I don't get that. Just number exits in order starting from 1 on each Motorway.





jeremiash said:


> But that has to wait at least until more of the network is built.


You're both right. But this system can be introduce right now on some sections, eg:
- whole A4, DK18
- A8 and S8 to Syców (or to Białystok, since this section of S8 have DŚU)
- A2 to Konotopa or perhaps Mińsk Mazowiecki
- A1 to Stryków (or to CZ Border, same as S8)
- S3 to Zielona Góra (or CZ Border, same as S8 and A1)
- A6, S1, S69, S22

As you can see there is more than plenty of roads when no new exit will came out.


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## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> I doubt if something like that exists. Of course there are guidelines, usually including a phrase like the price weighs for 80 or 90% in judging the offers. But I don't think they MUST award it to the lowest bidder even if it is obviously ridiculous or unrealistic.


The relevant EU legislation is either Directive 2004/17 or Directive 2004/18. (Both deal with public procurement, but I'm not sure which applies to highways.) Anyway, they are fairly similar to each other and the basic principles are transparency, non-discrimination, and objective standards. Exactly which objective standards are left to the member states to decide. I seem to recall that some chose price alone, but I don't have the time to research (not to mention translate) the national legislation of all 27 member states implementing these Directives.

Obviously, reputation is not an objective criterion. Other than price, the only other criterion which I can think of at the moment which would probably meet the objectivity test would be a history of successfully completing a defined number of projects above a defined euro value.


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## mcarling

*DK52*

Is there a long-term plan for the DK52 to eventually be upgraded to an expressway from Kraków to Bielsko-Biała?


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## ufonut

mcarling said:


> I don't think the law needs to be changed. It's enough to be tough with the underbidders exactly as the Polish government is now. When potential underbidders see that the consequences are consistently as they are with Covec, then no one will want to underbid in Poland. Adding more laws every time a problem arises quickly leads to drowning in laws.


Law needs to be definitely changed.

1. Lowest and highest bids should be struck down and never taken into account (Demming himself wrote that if you base your projects on costs alone you end up with garbage every time).

2. Companies that did not fulfill their obligations should be fined and barred from operating in Poland for at least 5 years if not more.


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## ChrisZwolle

mcarling said:


> Is there a long-term plan for the DK52 to eventually be upgraded to an expressway from Kraków to Bielsko-Biała?


Class GP: Beskidzka Droga Integracyjna

Thread on the Polish sub forum: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=320436


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## mcarling

ufonut said:


> Law needs to be definitely changed.
> 
> 1. Lowest and highest bids should be struck down and never taken into account (Demming himself wrote that if you base your projects on costs alone you end up with garbage every time).


Does anyone here even know exactly the Polish law on this? I only know (approximately) the constraints imposed on relevant Polish law by relevant EU law. For all I know, it may already be the case that Polish law requires the lowest bid to be thrown out, though that does not seem to have been the case at the time Covec were awarded the contract.



ufonut said:


> 2. Companies that did not fulfill their obligations should be fined and barred from operating in Poland for at least 5 years if not more.


The fine imposed on Covec is 741 million zlotys. Covec will never, ever be able to operate in Poland if they don't pay the fine.

It's bad that completion of the A2 will be delayed. However, Poland got a great deal out of it. Covec lost a tonne of money even before the fine.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Class GP: Beskidzka Droga Integracyjna
> 
> Thread on the Polish sub forum: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=320436


Thanks!


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## toonczyk

mcarling said:


> Does anyone here even know exactly the Polish law on this? I only know (approximately) the constraints imposed on relevant Polish law by relevant EU law. For all I know, it may already be the case that Polish law requires the lowest bid to be thrown out, though that does not seem to have been the case at the time Covec were awarded the contract.


The answer to this question is here:
http://www.uzp.gov.pl/cmsws/page/?D;1391
Google translate will give you an idea about the subject, but in short:

The law allows to use criteria of price OR price together with other factors (quality, warranty, time). It would be illegal to throw out the lowest bid without proving it was "too low" (dumping). According to UZP (Public Procurement Office) it would be in violation of Article 55 of Directive 2004/18/CE:



> *Article 55 - Abnormally low tenders*
> 1. If, for a given contract, tenders appear to be abnormally low in relation to the goods, works or services, the contracting authority shall, before it may reject those tenders, request in writing details of the constituent elements of the tender which it considers relevant.
> 
> Those details may relate in particular to:
> 
> (a) the economics of the construction method, the manufacturing process or the services provided;
> 
> (b) the technical solutions chosen and/or any exceptionally favourable conditions available to the tenderer for the execution of the work, for the supply of the goods or services;
> 
> (c) the originality of the work, supplies or services proposed by the tenderer;
> 
> (d) compliance with the provisions relating to employment protection and working conditions in force at the place where the work, service or supply is to be performed;
> 
> (e) the possibility of the tenderer obtaining State aid.
> 
> 2. The contracting authority shall verify those constituent elements by consulting the tenderer, taking account of the evidence supplied.
> 
> 3. Where a contracting authority establishes that a tender is abnormally low because the tenderer has obtained State aid, the tender can be rejected on that ground alone only after consultation with the tenderer where the latter is unable to prove, within a sufficient time limit fixed by the contracting authority, that the aid in question was granted legally. Where the contracting authority rejects a tender in these circumstances, it shall inform the Commission of that fact.


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## mcarling

Thanks for looking that up!



toonczyk said:


> It would be illegal to throw out the lowest bid without proving it was "too low" (dumping). According to UZP (Public Procurement Office) it would be in violation of Article 55 of Directive 2004/18/CE:


Throwing out the lowest bid without proving dumping might also be in violation of WTO law. In light of the constraints imposed by Directive 2004/18, it's not obvious how Polish law could be changed to reduce the likelihood of similar incidents in the future.


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## brewerfan386

DWUser said:


> Hello!
> 
> I have the freshest (today's) pictures from cycling tour from node to node Pawłowice Widawa and back, can someone interesting. This episode is complete, and probably soon will be ready for collection. The connector to Długołęka not drove, but he also seems to be "almost" ready.
> 
> At the beginning of the view from the viaduct over the Trzebnica toward Długołęka:
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> Ale ja pojechałem w odwrotnym kierunku - widok znad torów na sam węzęł Pawłowice:
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> Wiadukt przed samym węzłem Widawa, jeśli się nie mylę - nad przyszłą S5 do Poznania:


...


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## brewerfan386

DWUser said:


> Sam wiadukt z ozdobami - widok od wewnątrz:
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> Od tego miejsca wracałem. Tu widok z pasem włączającym się w kierunku Pawłowic (cały czas strefa 110):
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> Widok na rodno na ul. Żmigrodzkiej (dojazd do AOW dochodzi z prawej strony, w głębi widać łuk wiaduktu OŚ):
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> Ale ogólnie widać, że do wykończenia tego odcinka zostały już ostatnie detale. Jeśli im zależy i się sprężą, wydaje się to kwestia kilku - kilkunastu dni.
> 
> NO WIĘC KIEDY ODDANIE?


...


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## eucitizen

toonczyk said:


> Difficult to say. Currently the only thing we know for sure is that none of them will be built before 2013. There are some talks about A1 between Tuszyn and Pyrzowice being built in PPP (second try...), but one way or another I'd say the earliest we can expect it to be ready is 2015. Bypass of Węgierska Górka (S69) and S7 Lubień-Rabka are rather far on the list of priorities, I would be surprised to see them U/C before 2018


I can understand that S69 and S7 Lubien-Rabka aren't priorities, but the last section of A1 must be a priority, so my next question what is the problem up there?


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## toonczyk

eucitizen said:


> I can understand that S69 and S7 Lubien-Rabka aren't priorities, but the last section of A1 must be a priority, so my next question what is the problem up there?


The problem is money. This section was supposed to be built by a private consortium (Autostrada Południe SA), but one year after the contract has been signed, they withdrew due to difficulties acquiring funding (financial crisis). Then it turned out even the construction plans they were supposed to prepare during this one year were of very poor quality. So GDDKiA had to start the whole process of gathering documentation (except for environmental documentation thankfully) from scratch. In the meanwhile, we had to slow down with the infrastructure investments to work on limiting the deficit and there had to be some really tough decisions made, which projects to delay. There is no point in assigning any money to A1 contract until the building permit is (almost) ready. So yeah, as a result, as of today A1 is to be built "after 2013". Also, even if there is a decision to go back to PPP for this section, it's going to take at least until 2015 for it to be built. Obviously that's not an ideal situation, but it's not that terrible either - DK1 is not that bad compared to many other roads, even though it goes straight through Częstochowa.


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## Cancun

rakcancer said:


> @ Cancun
> There is a reason behind that. As I remember price makes up of around 95% of winning bid. There is no much of other criterias taken into the consideration during selection time. So what to expect? we have and we will have that sort of situations in the future untill our law won't be changed the way that experience of competing companies counts, not only how cheap they can go.


Price is the biggest factor to decide the winner for the bid tender. 

I do not want to blame the basic principle and system to prefer lowest bidder. 

The project owner has to trust the bidder's quotation is reasonable and conscientious but unfortunately this chinese company does not know how to make the detailed breakdown to consolidate their bid price. They will bring many excuses like their own bid system does not include mobilization cost blah blah blah. 

Their government usually gives the project winner in foreign market the honor title. So the covec project managers just thought their honor title first and then the government will support to fix such low bid flaws.


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## ChrisZwolle

toonczyk said:


> There is no point in assigning any money to A1 contract until the building permit is (almost) ready.


Funny, in the Netherlands we do it the other way around, as experience in the 1960's and 1970's showed us many plans never came into fruition because there was no money for plans that already had record of decisions, building permits, etcetera.


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## kmieciu

*A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl section 5.0 - 5.1*

My tour on A2 Rzepin - Świecko. Concrete on section



kmieciu said:


> cdn.


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## bigalowski

guys, get a load of that: 
http://investmap.pl/wiadomosci/link,zielona-gora-rusza-budowa-s8,28784.html


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## ufonut

Western bypass of Mragowo (small town in lake district)


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## Jakub Warszauer

Fine "medium" GP-class.


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## ChrisZwolle

It looks quite good, good example of an at-grade 2+1 road. We don't have such roads in the Netherlands.

I assume traffic volumes are not high enough to warrant grade-separation on this bypass.


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## Jakub Warszauer

Fine for 90% of the year. Remaining 10% are summer weekends. The bypass covers the less important DK59 corridor for city of Mrągowo. The more imporant one, in DK16 corridor will take much more time and money.


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## mr.cool

Check out 7:05 to 7:15!! UFO? Hehehehe


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## rakcancer

^^
that seems to be a fly or some other bug inspecting construction site:cheer:

I like this "medium, fine" GP-class quite a lot. Just a bit overbuilt with screens. I haven't seen anywhere so many of those by a local road in small town.


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## delfin_pl

ufonut said:


> Western bypass of Mragowo (small town in lake district)


Wouldn't it be better to install regular cats eyes instead of these poles with reflecting glasses? You drive thru it and its broken.


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## ChrisZwolle

Jakub Warszauer said:


> The more imporant one, in DK16 corridor will take much more time and money.


Several sections of DK16 will be upgraded though. Even though an S16 doesn't seem plausible in the near future, I've read several sections will be built with de-facto S-standards and be in operation as class GP roads, leaving an easy upgrade in the future. 

A question:

I thought June 15th was the opening date for several road projects, however, I can't recall any being opened. What are the next opening dates? I believe parts of S7 would open, as well as a section of A8 around Wrocław. 

Another question:

Why does the completion of A2 around Mińsk Mazowiecki takes so long? I believe the opening date is December 2012, yet it is under construction for quite some time now (way before A2 Stryków - Konotopa began construction). The same can be said about S79 in Warszawa, I believe this one is U/C since 2009 or early 2010, but photos don't show significant progress yet.


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Several sections of DK16 will be upgraded though. Even though an S16 doesn't seem plausible in the near future, I've read several sections will be built with de-facto S-standards and be in operation as class GP roads, leaving an easy upgrade in the future.


Sure. But this is going to be much, much more expensive. And will be opposed by many different lobbies.



> A question:
> 
> I thought June 15th was the opening date for several road projects, however, I can't recall any being opened. What are the next opening dates? I believe parts of S7 would open, as well as a section of A8 around Wrocław.


Everything is on hold as long as problems with A2 Łódź - Warszawa aren't resolved. It's absolutely sure that finishing "chinese" secitions of the motorway will cost much more than COVEC asked in the original bid.



> Another question:
> 
> Why does the completion of A2 around Mińsk Mazowiecki takes so long? I believe the opening date is December 2012, yet it is under construction for quite some time now (way before A2 Stryków - Konotopa began construction). The same can be said about S79 in Warszawa, I believe this one is U/C since 2009 or early 2010, but photos don't show significant progress yet.


Timetable for A2 byspass for Mińsk Mazowiecki is ridiculously overstretched. GDDKiA gave to much time for finishing it. And gave no incentive to the construction company to finish it earlier. If they wanted, it would be ready this year.

S2/S79 is deleyed. In my opinion it won't be ready for may 2012. Reasons only via PM.


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## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> I thought June 15th was the opening date for several road projects, however, I can't recall any being opened. What are the next opening dates? I believe parts of S7 would open, as well as a section of A8 around Wrocław.


S7 Elbląg-Pasłęk (both very foreigner-friendly names) opening is planned for next week and that's it for this month AFAIR. Rest of A8 should be opened in mid August. 


ChrisZwolle said:


> Why does the completion of A2 around Mińsk Mazowiecki takes so long? I believe the opening date is December 2012, yet it is under construction for quite some time now (way before A2 Stryków - Konotopa began construction).


It's obviously way too much time for such an easy project. But at least it's pretty cheap (under 7mln EUR/km).


ChrisZwolle said:


> The same can be said about S79 in Warszawa, I believe this one is U/C since 2009 or early 2010, but photos don't show significant progress yet.


There is a significant progress, but this is a complicated project with lots of collisions. I think realistically it'll be ready no sooner than autumn 2012.


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## Mateusz

ChrisZwolle said:


> Several sections of DK16 will be upgraded though. Even though an S16 doesn't seem plausible in the near future, I've read several sections will be built with de-facto S-standards and be in operation as class GP roads, leaving an easy upgrade in the future.


There are several environmental obstacles (mainly Masurian lakes) and traffic is not that high so it's pretty much impossible to make S16 viable all the way from Grudziądz via Olszyn to Augustów. However I would think that constructing S16 from Ostróda to Biskupiec (including Olsztyn bypass) is possible some time in the future after more important mainline routes are finished. 

Traffic keeps growing and jamming our tight routes, towns and cities therefore government will sooner or later return to other concepts which are now in the shadow due to lesser funds available. Even securing funds for top priority schemes is hard in a current economical downturn. Many things can still change. After studying plans from other countries it's easy to see how many ideas were thrown away and how many new ones were brought in.


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## ufonut

A2 around Konin by Rusonaldo (PPO - tolls, MOP - rest area, OUA - maintenance depot).



Rusonaldo said:


> PPO Konin Wschód





Rusonaldo said:


> MOP „Orelnu” pomiędzy węzłami Wartkowice a Emilia. W budowie Burgerownia i KFC


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## ufonut

Cont...



Rusonaldo said:


> PPO Stryków Zachód





Rusonaldo said:


> SPO Stryków Południe + OUA Stryków


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## ufonut

S69 Bielsko-Biala - Zywiec by Marek Kocjan



marek_kocjan said:


> Aktualizacja zdjęć lotniczych - http://www.kocjan.pl/thumbnails-68.html
> 
> Węzeł Mikuszowice, S69 w kierunku Żywca:
> 
> 
> Węzeł Rosta, S1 w kierunku Węzła Komorowice:


AOW A8 Wroclaw Bypass by MisterTPL



MisterTPL said:


> Początek A8:
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## ChrisZwolle

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Przejście_dla_pieszych

Do I understand correctly, that according to this article, pedestrians have a right of way at pedestrian crossings indicated with a sign and zebra markings?



> W tak specjalnie oznaczonym miejscu pieszy, który rozpoczął przechodzenie przez drogę, ma pierwszeństwo przed uczestnikami ruchu poruszającymi się po tej drodze, o ile przejście to nie jest kierowane przez upoważnioną do tego osobę lub sygnalizację świetlną.


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## toonczyk

Pedestrian has a right of way once he is ON the crossing, but he's not allowed to enter the crossing right in front of an incoming vehicle. So if a pedestrian is standing on a sidewalk and waiting to cross the road (and there are no traffic lights), he doesn't have a right of way.


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## LMB

toonczyk said:


> Pedestrian has a right of way once he is ON the crossing, but he's not allowed to enter the crossing right in front of an incoming vehicle. So if a pedestrian is standing on a sidewalk and waiting to cross the road (and there are no traffic lights), he doesn't have a right of way.


...unless three people are waiting. Is this law still in force?


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## toonczyk

Never heard of it.


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## bleetz

Can't wait until the border - Warsaw section of the A2 is fully complete so that I could test it myself!


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## rakcancer

^^
you mean: how fast you can get from Warsaw to the german border?


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## bleetz

I am not asking a question, I am just saying that I will try out that section as soon as it opens (I drive through Poland 2-4 times a year). And yes, I will go pedal-to-the-metal on that road, I always go fast on the completed sections of A2. It is a fantastic road, visibility is good, it is very straight and smooth. Too bad about tolls though, they're a bit of a bitch.


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## rakcancer

I understand. If they finish A2 you will still be waiting for completing S8 Wa-wa - B-stok, though bypasses of last towns are under construction. And then last but least B-stok - Suwalki and border with Lithuania. Sorry, no good news for that portion. Who knows what is going to happened to this section. I would rather think S61 through Lomza will be under construction sooner.


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## delfin_pl

Unfortunately, our Eastern neighbours - Lithuania, Belarus will have to wait looong time for A/S standard road connection.


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## ChrisZwolle

On the other hand, Lithuania isn't exactly racing to build A5 to Kaunas into a motorway.


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## bleetz

delfin_pl said:


> Unfortunately, our Eastern neighbours - Lithuania, Belarus will have to wait looong time for A/S standard road connection.


Yup, I am aware of that. It is very sad indeed, but when you drive to London, the Kaunas-Bialystok section doesn't seem that long given the context, so we'll survive  And it doesn't mean that I can't be happy about the Warsaw-Germany section being complete. It will shorten my travel time considerably. And if the quality remains as good as in the sections that are already complete, Warsaw-Germany might be the most enjoyable part of the trip for me (apart from the toll booths, of course).

I don't expect E67 Zambrow - Kaunas to be complete in another 15 years or so (if not more).



ChrisZwolle said:


> On the other hand, Lithuania isn't exactly racing to build A5 to Kaunas into a motorway.


Yep. They are building a bunch of roads that are not that important (Vilnius southern bypass for example), when _the_ road to build for Lithuania is ignored. They will start to upgrade the Kaunas - Marijampolė section to motorway (_automagistralė_) standards in 2013 I believe. They should have started in 2003 more like. That road is good but it has way more traffic than it can handle.


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## bleetz

delfin_pl said:


> S8 Warsaw


04:43: F--KING finally! 
07:30: There he goes again!

Who was driving in this video? I hope it's not you for your own sake!


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## PLH

It wasn't him, but after seeing other videos of the same driver I can say this was not deliberate but only to better show the roadworks. Still, nothing to be proud of.

---------

As some of you might know, starting from July 1st we have electronic toll collection system for vehicles over 3,5 tonnes. 

As with everything that make people pay extra money, also this system caused many trucks left motorways for local roads. I wonder how will it end, because already we had two road blocks as people do not want trucks to pass through their towns.


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## delfin_pl

^^ I must be blind, what's wrong with his driving?


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## ja_kubek2

delfin_pl said:


> ^^ I must be blind, what's wrong with his driving?


in poland you have to drive on the right side of the road, unless you want to overtake


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## delfin_pl

^^ but he is driving on the right side all the time in this video.


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## toonczyk

^^ He's driving in the left lane most of the time for no reason whatsoever. It's an infraction under Polish law, as it is in most countries.


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## delfin_pl

^^ you mean he is driving too slow on the left lane? Road is under construction and there are speed limits after all.


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## toonczyk

^^ He is driving in the left lane, period. It doesn't matter what the speed is - left lane is for *overtaking only*. Using the left lane just for cruising all the time is an infraction.


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## rav00

delfin_pl said:


> ^^ you mean he is driving too slow on the left lane? Road is under construction and there are speed limits after all.


Your trolling is invalid.


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## delfin_pl

No I'm just asking, 'cause I didn't know what was wrong in his driving.


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## ChrisZwolle

PLH said:


> As some of you might know, starting from July 1st we have electronic toll collection system for vehicles over 3,5 tonnes.
> 
> As with everything that make people pay extra money, also this system caused many trucks left motorways for local roads. I wonder how will it end, because already we had two road blocks as people do not want trucks to pass through their towns.


I thought ViaTOLL was for all national roads as well? 

The toll rate is actually quite reasonable, approximately € 0.07 per kilometer. In Switzerland it's 10 times as high


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## g.spinoza

You simply ban trucks from entering towns and start applying some expensive fines... and you'll see how fast they will start driving on motorways...


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> I thought ViaTOLL was for all national roads as well?


No, and that's the problem.



> The toll rate is actually quite reasonable, approximately € 0.07 per kilometer. In Switzerland it's 10 times as high


Of course.


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## rav00

delfin_pl said:


> No I'm just asking, 'cause I didn't know what was wrong in his driving.


You have to drive as close to the right edge of the road as possible. That's the law. So if the rightmost lane is free, you shouldn't use any other.

That's theory. In practice the best lane to overtake on S8 in Warsaw is often the rightmost one...


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## ufonut

Gdansk - WZ Route



dredrd said:


> Wrzucam zdjęcia węzła autorstwa kolegi:
> 
> Fot. Krzysztof Nykiel
> 
> 
> Fot. Krzysztof Nykiel


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## bogdymol

The video description is _Accident on Polish road_.


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## ChrisZwolle

That word the guy behind the camera utters many times was the first word they teached me in Wroclaw


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## delfin_pl

^^ Well, its the most common Polish word


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## g.spinoza

^^ Funny, in Italian that word means "he/she/it turns"... and indeed it turned!


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## Road_UK

rav00 said:


> You have to drive as close to the right edge of the road as possible. That's the law. So if the rightmost lane is free, you shouldn't use any other.
> 
> That's theory. In practice the best lane to overtake on S8 in Warsaw is often the rightmost one...


Poles do sit in overtaking lanes too long for no reason. I see it on the A4 all the time. But Poles are all over Europe now, and they hog overtaking lanes there as well. 

On that 3-lane bit of the A4 between Katowice and Krakow, I was surprised to find that even lorries hog the middle lane.

Brits intent to hog overtaking lanes as well, same with the Swiss.


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## Dantiscum

Photos by our dear forum's collegue Czesław:

upgrading of the S6 (west bypass of Gdansk):

1) lane widening and new interchange with a road to the city centre:



Czesław;81013760 said:


> Z góry pozdrawiam:
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> zdjęcia oczywiście "nie aktualne" bo z zeszłego tygodnia





Czesław;81018306 said:


> To jeszcze dwa detale:
> 
> Zjazd do centrum handlowego
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> Południowa część węzła



2) interchange with the new southern bypass of Gdańsk (S7):



Czesław;81014322 said:


> No to tak dla podtrzymania wątku:
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> To jest początek czy koniec S7?


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## rav00

Yamamoto said:


> A question about the best route at the moment for driving from Rostock (coming from Denmark) to Warszawa. Normally I would drive via Berlin and then DK2/A2 to Warszawa. Unfortunately I have to drive on a Saturday, and I am concerned about the traffic jams on the DK2 between the German border and A2.
> 
> So I was considering to avoid that part, by doing one of these two options:
> 
> * Driving via Szczecin and DK10.
> * Driving almost to Berlin and take B1 and DK22, DK24 and DK3 to Nowy Tomysl and then A2/DK2.
> 
> Any recent experiences or general advice will be appriciated.
> 
> BTW, any news on the Chinese parts of the A2 constructions close to Warszawa?


I'd go straight for A2 - since Jul 1st much less trucks use motorways and instead they use parallel, smaller roads.
Also, during summer holidays trucks cannot drive on weekend between certain hours during the day.


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## mr.cool

A8 - Wroclaw:









































































S5 Poznan-Wroclaw:





















































































































































































A1 Torun-Strykow:



























































































A2 Warsaw-Kukuryki (June 2011):


































































































































































































































S17 Kurow - Piaski



































































































































































A1 Pyrzowice - Gorzyczki (CZ):



























































































A1 Grudziadz - Torun:













































































































A4 Rzeszow - Korczowa (UA):






















































































































Poland is a BOOMING!


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## rav00

so few photos in one post... give us some more!


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## toonczyk

Yeah, 116 may be a new record.


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## mr.cool

Your wish is my command...

S14 Western Bypass Lodz:














































S74 Piotrkow Tryb - Kielce - Nisko:






















































































































A4 Szarow - Tarnow:




























































































































































































































































































































S3 Gorzow Wlkp - Sulechow:






































































































































































































































































A2 Swiecko - Nowy Tomysl:






























































































































































































Warsaw investments:


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## rakcancer

OMG! Looks like entire Poland is under construction. Impressive pictures. Thanks for update.


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## delfin_pl

^^ Poland is the biggest construction site in Europe.


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## ufonut

S8 in Warsaw (photos by kokero)



kokero said:


> Kilka zdjęć z dzisiaj:
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> [IMG=http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/5688/dscn4279c.jpg][/IMG]





kokero said:


>


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## WB2010

^^

What's that ???

A ghetto, a prison or a strictly controlled and a tightly closed border separating enemy countries ???


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## ChrisZwolle

Iron curtain 2.0


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## Sasza

^^
^^
It's a modern Warsaw mate


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## rav00

That's modern Warsaw - people have built houses near soon-to-be-built express road and now they complain it's NOISY!


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## drowningman666

which part of S5 Poznan- Wroclaw is currently UC ?


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Near Rawicz, by far not the entire corridor unfortunately.

in red:


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## tomibaranek

source: http://finanse.wp.pl/gid,13558249,galeria.html?T

*"Our expensive highway"*

According to the most optimistic plans for next year we will be able to Warsaw and Poznan to get a brand new route to the sea. What that by Lodz. Highway is a highway. From the capital of the difference in distance is only 40 km. Yet two-lane road we will drive 140 km/h. Only at what price ...

We checked how much it costs almost 400 toll highway kilometer sections on the most popular routes in Europe. We compared it with the future cost of passage A1 and A2 motorway in Poland. And as it turned out? See for yourself!

*POLAND*
Warsaw - Lodz - Gdansk
Distance to motorway: 386 km
The fee for the highway: *77 zł*
Average price of travel 1 km: *0,20 zł*

*FRANCE*
Lyon - Cote d'coast (near Cannes)
Total Distance: 387 km
Distance to motorway: 383 km
The fee for the highway: *131.50 zł*
Average price of travel 1 km: *0,34 zł*

*SPAIN*
Barcelona - Valencia
Distance to motorway: 386 km
Journey time: about 3:45 hours
The fee for the highway: *124.50 zł*
Average price of travel 1 km: *0,32 zł*

*PORTUGAL*
Lisbon - Porto - Viana do Castelo
Distance to motorway: 387 km
The fee for the highway: *77.57 zł*
Average price of travel 1 km: *0,20 zł*

*ITALY*
Rome - around Cinque Terre
Distance to motorway: 383 km
The fee for the highway: *109.50 zł*
Average price of travel 1 km: *0,29 zł*

*CROATIA*
Zagreb - Split
Distance to motorway: 383 km
The fee for the motorway: approx: *86.20 zł*
Average price of travel 1 km: *0,23 zł*


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## Agnette

Orionol said:


> In Sweden, overtaking on the right side is legel. So I think its reasonable.


In Lithuania You can drive faster on the right side then the traffic on the left side.


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## mr.cool

Newest map:


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## ChrisZwolle

When will S7 Elblag - Paslek open? (VI 2011)


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## schlesier

@mr.cool: check the first post in this thread


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## Bzyq_74

ChrisZwolle said:


> When will S7 Elblag - Paslek open? (VI 2011)


On page GDDiK is 15 july 2011 - 15.00h, but silence in the media.


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## kmieciu

*S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów*

S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów update photos on contract page.

WD-01 - montaż ściany oporowej z elementów T-Wall.jpg









WS-02a - budowa podpór obiektu.jpg









Układanie warstwy stabilizacji pomiędzy obiektami WD-12 i WD-13.jpg









Budowa nasypu pomiędzy obiektami WD-10 a WS-11









WS-17, zbrojenie fundamentu w osi X.JPG









18+200









18+600, profilowanie skarp









19+ 400









23+000


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## Rusonaldo




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## ChrisZwolle

Wow, nobody mentioned... A8 opened today on the north side of Wroclaw!


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## ChrisZwolle

Bzyq_74 said:


> On page GDDiK is 15 july 2011 - 15.00h, but silence in the media.


Did it open?


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## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> Did it open?


Opening planned for 25.07.2011.


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## mcarling

Rusonaldo said:


>


Thanks for the video. This section looks like it's shaping up to open in December.


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## ChrisZwolle

toonczyk said:


> Opening planned for 25.07.2011.


Thanks.

Another thing that went unnoticed in this thread; two bypasses of S3 opened to traffic; Troszyn - Ostromice (2x2 13-07-2011) and Miekowa (1x2 15-07-2011). Both on the Świnoujście - Szczecin route.


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## DSzumaher

A8
26471303

S3 not yet










We have to wait for pics/vids from Miękow*o* bypass, but that's not from me ().


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## ChrisZwolle

Does anyone have a detailed plan of węzeł Walichnowy? Considering it will cost around 100 million PLN to construct it, I suppose it's more than just a simple diamond or trumpet interchange.


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## DSzumaher

^^ AFAIK classical cloveleaf with concrete pavement.


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## ufonut

A2/S11 by *Carte*



Carte said:


>


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## Chris80678

ChrisZwolle said:


> Wow, nobody mentioned... A8 opened today on the north side of Wroclaw!


I thought that this part of the Wroclaw bypass was supposed to be expressway and designated and signed as S8 not A8. 
When will the remaining part of the bypass open (ie the Oder river bridge)?


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## Kuras77

^^
The openning of the whole AOW is planned for the end of August 2011.


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## Road_UK

It'd be nice to see an update on the latest potholes. Although I'm really impressed with the A4/E40.


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## ufonut

A8 - AOW - Wroclaw Bypass (unopened part) by pmanager.org



pmanager.org said:


> Dziś zrobiłem sobie małą wycieczkę na rowerze z aparatem:
> 
> Widok na północ z wiaduktu na Granicznej:
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> Widok z wiaduktu nad Żernicką.





pmanager.org said:


> Nieopodal stadionu.
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> Widok z perspektywy żaby.





pmanager.org said:


> Zbliżamy się do mostu
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> Niestety bliżej nie udało się podjechać, bo miły pan w białej koszulce (pozdrawiam serdecznie) kulturalnie poprosił o opuszczenie placu budowy i zaprosił za 1,5 miesiąca samochodem





pmanager.org said:


> Widok w drugą stronę.
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> Strażnik budowy przy wjeździe serwisowym od ul. Maślickiej
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## ChrisZwolle

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j382/Arfalath2/Inwestycje/DSC07590.jpg

I was amazed with the lack of decent control cities on southbound A8. Just two insignificant border villages, no Berlin, Dresden or Katowice at all, destinations which are all relevant at this point along A8.


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> I was amazed with the lack of decent control cities on southbound A8. Just two insignificant border villages, no Berlin, Dresden or Katowice at all, destinations which are all relevant at this point along A8.


Typical


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## mapman:cz

ChrisZwolle said:


> http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j382/Arfalath2/Inwestycje/DSC07590.jpg
> 
> I was amazed with the lack of decent control cities on southbound A8. Just two insignificant border villages, no Berlin, Dresden or Katowice at all, destinations which are all relevant at this point along A8.


I agree... Even cities as Klodzko or Swidnica would be better... And Praha is in that direction as well.


----------



## PhirgataZFs1694

Was this lake created on purpose?


----------



## PiotrG

It's not lake, it's storage reservoir.


----------



## TheFlyPL

You can't just frow away the water from the highway because of the contamination. That's why we build those reservouirs. It is filled with the rainwater from roadway


----------



## Mateusz

ChrisZwolle said:


> http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j382/Arfalath2/Inwestycje/DSC07590.jpg
> 
> I was amazed with the lack of decent control cities on southbound A8. Just two insignificant border villages, no Berlin, Dresden or Katowice at all, destinations which are all relevant at this point along A8.


All these new roads look amazing but such details like signs and a poor choice of colours of some noise barriers (for example S8 in Warsaw) or bridges can disturb a final picture.

But it comes from a road maniac. Most people don't give a crap.


----------



## rakcancer

who cares about colors of noise barriers? are we expecting every road looks like Moscow Metro with marble walls and chandeliers?


----------



## Iluminat

^^How is that similar?


----------



## Rombi

rakcancer said:


> who cares about colors of noise barriers? are we expecting every road looks like Moscow Metro with marble walls and chandeliers?


I hope nobody expect our roads looked like moscow metro^^. I must say it's somehow kitschy. Better if it would look like stockholm metro^^


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Are we really discussing after which metro network Polish motorways should be modeled?


----------



## mcarling

Personally, I think the new Polish roads (and especially some of the bridges) are the most beautiful in Europe, perhaps in the world.


----------



## rav00

mostly because they're brand new... ;]


----------



## mcarling

rav00 said:


> mostly because they're brand new... ;]


No, there are many new roads and bridges in eastern europe. Poland has the most beautiful -- in my subjective opinion.


----------



## kmieciu

*A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl*

All videos were taken 6 km from intersection Świecko.

^ ^ ^ Świecko





^ ^ ^ Nowy Tomyśl 





< < < Świecko





< < < Świecko




[/FONT]


----------



## LMB

kmieciu said:


> All videos were taken 6 km from intersection Świecko.




Frankly I can't believe my eyes. When I left Poland 3 years ago, there was nothing, just a pile of dirt by Nowy Tomyśl. :banana:


----------



## kmieciu

*First shovel on S3 Gorzów - Międzyrzecz*

source



> Nearby Trzebiszew Governor Helena Hatka started construcion of S3 Gorzów - Międzyrzecz.
> 
> The consortium of companies led by Mota Engil Central Europe, will build the section from Gorzów to Skwierzyna for the amount of 336 million zł.
> Strabag, will build the section from Skwierzyna to Międzyrzecz and Skwierzyna bypass for the amount 425 million zł.
> 
> Completion of road construction is planned in mid-2014. The basic range of the task involves the construction of two carriageways with two lanes , the two road interchanges "Skwierzyna West" and "Skwierzyna South ", over 40 bridges, including the bridge over the Obra, animal crossing, road viaducts, and the segment located outside S3 allowing to use Skwierzyna bypass in relation Kostrzyn - Poznań (national road 24).


----------



## DocentX

A1 Torun - Strykow :



pinki2 said:


> Fotki z odcinka pierwszego Czerniewice Odolion od WD150 do WA154.
> 1. WD150:
> 
> 
> 2.
> 
> 
> 3.
> 
> 
> 4.
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> 5.
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> 6.
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> 7.
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> 8.
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> 9. Obszar węzła:
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> 10.
> 
> Cdn...





pinki2 said:


> Cd:
> 11.
> 
> 12. Jedna z kilku ładnie wyglądających skarp. tym odcinkiem będzie się przyjemnie jechało. widok na Łódź:
> 
> 
> 13. Podczas mojej krótkiej wycieczki przejechało kilkadziesiąt takich wozidełek:
> 
> 
> 14. Następna skarpa. tym razem od wschodu. tam gdzie jest taki łuk to idzie droga dojazdowa i ja tamtędy szedłem:
> 
> 
> 15. To trzeba jeszcze zniwelować:
> 
> 
> 16. Widok na węzeł. Stoję na najeździe na WD150:
> 
> 
> 17. Wspomniana wcześniej droga dojazdowa:
> 
> 
> 18. Tu chyba jakiś skład materiałów:
> 
> 
> 19. Stoję na najwyższym punkcie dd1:
> 
> 
> 20. I w drugą stronę:
> 
> 
> cdn...





pinki2 said:


> Cd:
> 41. I na Łódź:
> 
> 
> 42.
> 
> 
> 43. Tu gdzie ta ciężarówka będzie PZ151a. Na razie tylko pale i chudy beton tam jest:
> 
> 
> 44. PZ151a
> 
> 
> 45.
> 
> 
> 46.
> 
> 
> 47. I na Łódź:
> 
> 
> 48. Tutaj jestem:
> 
> 
> 49. Wykonywanie odwodnienia:
> 
> 
> 50. I Wk152:
> 
> 
> Cdn...


----------



## Road_UK

On the A4/E40 between German border and Wrocklaw the speed limit is 110 km/h. Drive any faster than that, and the matrix signs above you starts flashing with the 110 km/h sign. On both lanes! Sometimes at night when I'm bored I make a game out of it, and try to make them flash on both lanes by straddling.


----------



## LMB

Road_UK said:


> On the A4/E40 between German border and Wrocklaw the speed limit is 110 km/h. Drive any faster than that, and the matrix signs above you starts flashing with the 110 km/h sign. On both lanes! Sometimes at night when I'm bored I make a game out of it, and try to make them flash on both lanes by straddling.


There were fatal accidents on that section due to lack of shoulder. That could perhaps be the reason.


----------



## mappero

Road_UK said:


> On the A4/E40 between German border and Wrocklaw the speed limit is 110 km/h. Drive any faster than that, and the matrix signs above you starts flashing with the 110 km/h sign. On both lanes! Sometimes at night when I'm bored I make a game out of it, and try to make them flash on both lanes by straddling.


Not true at all 

On A4/E40 in between German boarder and Krzyzowa Junction so here on the map:  Gmap speed limit is 140 km/h  And flashing text signs display 140 km/h when someone is driving too fast


----------



## kmieciu

*A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl _ section Świecko - Rzepin*

Source  

From km2,0 to km23,0









A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl _ section Świecko - Rzepin 


kmieciu said:


> 41.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 42.Poznań ^ ^ ^
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 43.Jak widać, przy zbrojeniu ciągłym nie ma dylatacji poprzecznych.
> 
> 
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> 44.
> 
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> 45.
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> cdn.





kmieciu said:


> Na zdjęciach będzie można zobaczyć jak wygląda odcinek od WD5 do Węzła Rzepin. Na oko laika, może za dwa trzy miesiące będzie tam można puścić ruch.
> 
> 73.< < < MOP Gnilec
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 74.MOP Sosna > > >
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 75.
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 76.
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> 77.
> 
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> 
> 
> cdn.





kmieciu said:


> 97.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 98.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 99.Poznań ^ ^ ^
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 100.WD3b
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 101.
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cdn.





kmieciu said:


> 127.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 128.
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> 129.Jesteśmy na drodze serwisowej.
> 
> 
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> 130.
> 
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> 131.
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> cdn.





kmieciu said:


> 162.Spojrzenie w lewo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 163.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 164.W oddali WD5, jest już oddany do użytku.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 165.
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 166.Obrót w stronę Świecka.
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> cdn.





kmieciu said:


> 6.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 7.
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> 8.Świecko ^ ^ ^
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9.Rzepin ^ ^ ^
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 10.Świecko ^ ^ ^
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cdn.





kmieciu said:


> 43.Niedaleko WA8, widok w kierunku Świecka.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 44.Zbliżenie.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> 45.MA6
> 
> 
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> 46.Na nasypie. Świecko ^ ^ ^
> 
> 
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> 47.
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> 48.
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> 49.>>
> 
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> 50.Poznań ^ ^ ^
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> cdn.


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## kmieciu

*A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl _ section Świecko - Rzepin*

A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl _ section Świecko - Rzepin



kmieciu said:


> 91.Świecko ^ ^ ^
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 92.WD10a
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 93.Poznań ^ ^ ^
> 
> 
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> 
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> 94.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 95.W oddali widać WD12 na Węźle Rzepin.
> 
> 
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> 96.
> 
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> 97.
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> 98.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cdn.
> 
> Na razie robię przerwę, reszta wieczorem lub jutro.





kmieciu said:


> 11.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 12.
> 
> 
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> 13.
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> 14.WD12
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> 
> 15.< < < Poznań
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cdn.





kmieciu said:


> 31.Kilometraż
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 32.z drugiej strony, Świecko ^ ^ ^
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 33.Zbliżenie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 34.Obrót do tyłu, WA13
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 35.Na górze, Świecko ^ ^ ^
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cdn.





kmieciu said:


> 61.Bliżej PPO Tarnawa, widok w kierunku Świecka.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 62.Obrót do tyłu w kierunku PPO Tarnawa.
> 
> 
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> 63.
> 
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> 64.
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> 65.
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> cdn.





kmieciu said:


> 71.
> 
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> 72.
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> 73.
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> 74.
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> 75.
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> 76.
> 
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> cdn.





kmieciu said:


> 96.Idziemy w stronę Świecka.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 97.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 98.Obrót do tyłu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 99.WD12
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 100.Łącznica zjazdowa z kierunku Świecka.
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> cdn.





kmieciu said:


> 124.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 125.Obrót do tyłu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 126.
> 
> 
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> 
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> 127.
> 
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> 
> 128.>>
> 
> 
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> 
> cdn.





kmieciu said:


> 154.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 155.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 156.Poszedłem dalej na zachód. WA11 Poznań ^ ^ ^
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 157.Obrót w stronę Świecka.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 158.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cdn.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The S7 opened tonight between Elbląg and Pasłęk. 14 kilometers of new 2x2 motorway! :cheers:

location:


----------



## toonczyk

Yeah. In other news - contracts to continue building ex-Chinese sections of A2 are signed (or at least one is and another one will be signed tomorrow). It'll be ready in mid October 2012, but they still claim it will be "drivable" on Euro2012.


----------



## and802

toonczyk said:


> ... but they still claim it will be "drivable" on Euro2012.


and that is a catch.

I am afraid our politicians will do thier best to have it "drivable" mid-May 2012. and I do not want that, 'cause I am afraid we will loose the quality "on the way" in order to achieve a sick goal. some things (like motorway constructions) require some time and we must not change it. I do not want it see A2 rehabilitated in 2014.


----------



## mcarling

I don't care at all about Euro2012. Of course, sooner is better than later, but I would prefer to see the work done well.


----------



## bebe.2006

First we have general election in Oktober 2011. So the official news now is the motorway will be "drivable" for EURO2012. It must be. 
But who knows, maybe it is really possible. I mean we still have 10 months time. (minus wintertime)

At the end it's a good news the works will be continued.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

toonczyk said:


> Yeah. In other news - contracts to continue building ex-Chinese sections of A2 are signed (or at least one is and another one will be signed tomorrow). It'll be ready in mid October 2012, but they still claim it will be "drivable" on Euro2012.


So did they do a full public tender procedure, or did they do it quick without a full tender procedure?


----------



## Switek

ChrisZwolle said:


> So did they do a full public tender procedure, or did they do it quick without a full tender procedure?


It was a quick agreement contract procedure.


----------



## toonczyk

And while I still think it's illegal, it's actually probably going to stick. Nobody protested it, except for COVEC. And we already know their lawyers are useless - they've proven it again, because their protest was not even taken under consideration for formal reasons.


----------



## E2rdEm

^^ Well, formally - yes, they abused the non-bidding method. But GDDKiA *did* inquire several companies for their prices, so there was some informal bidding process. They chose those companies who were a) willing to promise "drivability" in may, b) offering the lowest price. After all, the new prices are quite low, comparing to COVEC's demands [*] and the original prices from the tender two years ago:


bastex said:


> A2 odc. A
> COVEC...................................754 588 186,71
> HERMANN KIRCHNER POLSKA Sp. z.o.o.......990 862 462,33
> MOSTOSTAL WARSZAWA SA -....... 1 082 639 042,73
> MOSTY ŁÓDŹ............................. 1 094 795 200,78
> BUDIMEX - DROMEX....................... 1 097 847 256,00
> Autostrada Wschodnia Sp. z.o.o..........1 354 434 243,66
> NDI SA (fuj!) -............................. 1 142 096 900,00
> MOTA ENGIL............................. 1 187 089 123,60


current price: ~989 000 000


bastex said:


> A2: odc. C
> COVEC..................................................................................534 548 523,13
> PBG S.A., ..............................................................................657 214 000,00
> Mostostal Warszawa S.A., ul. Konstruktorska 11A, 02-673..........709 993 276,85
> Johann BUNTE Bauunternehmung GmbH & Co. KG.......................729 207 670,31
> MOTA-ENGIL Polska S.A., ul. Wadowicka 8W, 30-415 Kraków..........732 100 964,05
> Budimex Dromex S.A., ul. Stawki 40, 01-040 Warszawa, Polska......742 955 600,00
> NDI SA, ul. Powstańców Warszawy 19, 81-718 Sopot.................878 496 380,00
> Bilfinger Berger Polska SA.......................................881 869 003,02


current price: 756 050 000 PLN

[*] It is is said that COVEC demanded additional 1 bln PLN to finish the initial contract of 1,3 bln PLN.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Can you compare those prices? I mean, COVEC already constructed some, so they don't have to build from scratch.


----------



## Switek

E2rdEm said:


> ... After all, the new prices are quite low, comparing to COVEC's


The key is that construction of those two sections of A2 is, in some extent, advanced. COVEC has already done some works there.


----------



## toonczyk

Switek said:


> COVEC has already done some works there.


About 15-20%. I think their biggest input was actually drawing up the construction project and obtaining construction permit.


----------



## Blaskovitz

*A8 in Wrocław*




salto_angel said:


> Nowe fotki z http://www.gazetawroclawska.pl/stro...w-z-lotu-ptaka-mnostwo-nowych-zdjec,id,t.html



*S69 and and beautiful views.*



los77 said:


> Fotorelacja z odcinka *S69 Milówka - granica państwa*
> 
> Data wykonania zdjęć : *2011 06 24*
> 
> 
> Północny wlot do tunelu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jedziemy w stronę granicy
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> W Zwardoniu tablica prędkości zaktualizowana
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Wracamy w stronę B-B. Węzeł Szare
> 
> 
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> 
> i wiadukt w Milówce
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lubię jeździć tą drogą :cheers:


----------



## Kuras77

toonczyk said:


> Well, sorry for not being precise enough. There are some rumors that this section of A2 will be finished (if COVEC indeed abandon the construction site) without construction bidding. This is not allowed by our law, except in "extraordinary circumstances". Those extraordinary circumstances are supposed to mean for example repairing a bridge destroyed by some natural disaster etc. - things that have to be done quick, otherwise public interest is seriously endangered. The situation right now is - in my opinion - absolutely not extraordinary, so *it would be illegal for the investor to continue the construction by private contract, without the tender process. Yet lots of people claiming otherwise (I called them experts ironically*) flooded the A2 thread with, well, nonsense and personal attacks. Probably this is not the place to talk about it, but I'm just trying to convey how dense the atmosphere here is





toonczyk said:


> Yeah. In other news - contracts to continue building ex-Chinese sections of A2 *are signed* (or at least one is and another one will be signed tomorrow). It'll be ready in mid October 2012, but they still claim it will be "drivable" on Euro2012.


:applause: :hilarious


----------



## toonczyk

I stand by my claim it's against the law. I'm pretty sure it would not hold up in court, but then again - we're most likely not going to find out.


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

It's no the first time things are being done this way. Hopefully one of the last.


----------



## macieii

I have said that already in the A2 thread: the GDDKiA have done great job
1. They had no choice but to accept Chinese companies to the tender.
2. Once COVEC failed, they've fired them WITHOUT killing half of the other contracts in Poland. Imagine what would have happened if they had adjusted the prices.
3. They managed to keep the construction companies in curbs in the follow-up quasi-tender and avoid the protests, even if the procedure is not legally obvious.

That's what I think we should call Good Management, right ? 

Public tender procedures are against common sense. You don't buy cheap, you don't buy high quality, and you don't buy FAST. What you DO buy - is something that matches tender specs. And that's something different, isn't it ?

This highway is probably the most needed road in Poland now, I don't mind that somebody was smart enough to minimize the time loss. Even if they don't make it for may 2012, the finish will be much faster than in the traditional tender that most of you here praise. This means LOT of money saved, and a few lives too... 

Please remember that. Even if we all know it's all about the elections.


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## ChrisZwolle

I've read the record of decision (DSU) of the S19 western bypass of Lublin has been annulled by a regional court. Does anyone know on what grounds?


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> I've read the record of decision (DSU) of the S19 western bypass of Lublin has been annulled by a regional court. Does anyone know on what grounds?


The local NIMBY group has been successful in the regional administrative court. This type of court does not decide whether the road was well planned, but whether the administrative proceeding was conducted in accordance with the law (whether the paperwork is ok).

By the way, to show colleagues from abroad how difficult it is to determine new road corridors, I would like to present a new map of the Warsaw metropolitan transport. One layer contains all the areas of Natura 2000 in Mazovia. Turn on it and a layer of national roads and understand what is our problem.
The link: http://mapa.siskom.waw.pl/
Legend is in polish, but google translate should be fine for that.


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## mcarling

*S8 Construction*

Today I drove from Warsaw to Bialystok.

There was evidence of work at each end of the Zambrow bypass. On the Warsaw side, the foundations for the piers that will support the overpass are done. On the Bialystok side, the piers are in place (but no spans yet) and the asphalt is mostly in place between the future overpass and where it will join the road to Bialystok. I didn't see the any of the bypass other than the endpoints, so I cannot comment on the general progress.

From Jezewo Stare to Bialystok, the new overpasses are in various stages of completion and most of the asphalt has been laid. Traffic was routed back and forth among the old road and each the two new carriageways. It is clear from the signage that the route for public traffic shifts frequently as the works progress. As of today, both directions of traffic were routed adjacent to each other. It looks like the two directions of traffic may soon be routed on different carriageways, at least from time to time and along some stretches. It looks to me like this section will be completed on time in August 2012 if not before.

The last time I drove this way was the end of September 2010 and the progress is dramatic. At that time, there minimal evidence of early preparations.


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## mcarling

*Augustow - Druskininkai*

Why don't Poland and Lithuania build a new 2x1 road directly between Augustow and Druskininkai? It would reduce the current driving distance by about 40 km.


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## ufonut

AOW - (Wroclaw Bypass) - almost ready  (by marko-wroclaw)



marko-wroclaw said:


> Parę moich fotek z dzisiejszej wycieczki:
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> Widoczek ogólny, ze znaną już, niebieską tabliczką
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> Jak widać - zainteresowanie jest!!
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> A to i drugi wyjazd. Fajne te drzwi - jak do sejfu albo zapora na rzece
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> Rzut ogólny #2.


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## Surel

^^ The bridge on the last picture looks just great.


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## bebe.2006

^^Yeah!



martouf said:


>


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## katia72

WOW, love this picture .... looks outstanding


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## ChrisZwolle

Very bad sign. I won't mention the border towns this time, but it looks like Legnica and Opole should be accessed via DK94, while they're much better accessed via A4.


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## Road_UK

From any direction, I always found Opole a pain the ass to get to. Done deliveries there.


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## bleetz

That is one good-looking bridge alright.


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## McKowski

katia72 said:


> WOW, love this picture .... looks outstanding




No A4 but A8?:nuts:

Hope there is somewhere a sign that mentions where we can get by using A4!


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## Blaskovitz

McKowski said:


> No A4 but A8?:nuts:
> 
> Hope there is somewhere a sign that mentions where we can get by using A4!


A4 to Polish-Czech border? :lol:


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## McKowski

Blaskovitz said:


> A4 to Polish-Czech border? :lol:


No, but A4 to Ukraine or Germany, why is there only the Chech border mentioned, or can`t I get on the A4 driving the AOW to the south?
I don`t get it...


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## bebe.2006

The sign could be:

A8/A4 (interchange name)
Katowice (A4)
Legnica (A4)
Klodzko (8)
Jelenia Gora (5)

right:

port lotniczy
94 Wroclaw (Zerniki Lesnica Centrum)
94 Sroda Slaska


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## ips_on

^^ I think from DK5 it's closer to Wałbrzych and that city (bigger than JG) should be on the signs on AOW. Jelenia Góra should be placed in signs in Bolków town (crossing DK3/DK5).


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## Don Vito KurDeBalanz

AOW looks great on all those aerial shots. The Bridge itself on some pictures almost unreal, like visualizations. Can't wait to test it myself.:banana:


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## ja.centy

ChrisZwolle said:


> Very bad sign. I won't mention the border towns this time, but it looks like Legnica and Opole should be accessed via DK94, while they're much better accessed via A4.


There's enough domestic malcontents in Poland, no need to get more of them from abroad. :tongue2: 

On a serious note though, has anyone tried to submit remarks re road signage onto respective GDDKiA branches (and if so, what was the outcome)?

Oh, and the bridge looks smashing.
-


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## Mateusz

ChrisZwolle said:


> Very bad sign. I won't mention the border towns this time, but it looks like Legnica and Opole should be accessed via DK94, while they're much better accessed via A4.


Polish signs should be suited for multi-lane dual carriageways but somehow they aren't hno:


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## ufonut

A1 Grudziadz - Torun by mareksaw_cg



mareksaw_cg said:


> Most MA-91 pod Grudziądzem nabiera swojego ostatecznego kształtu. Montowane są ekrany, oświetlenie, usuwane ścianki szczelne, a na podporach przycinane do wysokości fundamentów:
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> Następne zdjęcie nie wymaga chyba komentarza. Tu przed wyborami prezydent Grudziądza i dyrektor bydgoskiego oddziału GDDKiA powinni zorganizować spotkanie, na którym osobiście nakleją stosowne skreślenia na tej tablicy:
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> W porównaniu do mostu MA-91 most MA-93 na Kanale Głównym jest znacznie mniej zaawansowany:
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> Tu też układają jeszcze twardolany:
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> Stąd dobrze widać most przez Wisłę:
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> I widok z WD-95 na grudziądzki węzeł:
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> Otwarty jest też WD-99 i z niego widok w stronę Gdańska:
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> Na tych wiaduktach lokalnych są dziwne zabezpieczenia - na dole zwykła bariera, nad tym zabezpieczenie linami:
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## Matz32Z

DTS Katowice


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## ufonut

S8 (Powazkowska - Marki) in Warsaw by krzysztofsow



krzysztofsow said:


> 1. Jezdnia za łabiszyńska
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## ufonut

S69 (Bielsko Biala - Zywiec) by Marek Kocjan



marek_kocjan said:


> Aktualizacja zdjęć lotniczych - http://www.kocjan.pl/thumbnails-68.html
> 
> Węzeł Mikuszowice:
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> WS5 w Lipniku:
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> WS5 nad potokiem Krzywa oraz linią kolejową:
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> Zdjęcia do panoramy nad Węzłem Mikuszowice nie zostały wykonane z tyczki. Przy wszystkich zaletach tyczki umożliwia wykonanie zdjęć z max wysokości 6 metrów.
> Tymczasem panorama nad Mikuszowicami została zrobiona z wysokości ok. 35 metrów nad płytą wiaduktu.
> Następnie złożona i gotowa panorama sferyczna 360x180 stopni została wygenerowana w widoku tzw. małej planety.


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## delfin_pl

S7 - Gdańsk's Southern bypass

by Papaj


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## Jarek Obwazanek

Nowe zdjęcia z A4 – niestety malutkie.


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## ufonut

DK61 Warszawa - Augustow by kuras77


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## mcarling

*DK61*

The photos above of the DK61 look great. When is that scheduled to open? How many kilometers of dual carriageway? Warsaw - Augustow is a long route. Where along the route were the photos taken?


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## Kuras77

mcarling said:


> When is that scheduled to open?


September 2011



mcarling said:


> How many kilometers of dual carriageway?


Bypass of Serock is 7km length.



mcarling said:


> Warsaw - Augustow is a long route. Where along the route were the photos taken?


Check here:
http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=1251779


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## bleetz

This confuses me. Isn't S61 supposed to start/end at S8 near Zambrow? Is it not a bit of a luxury to have two parallel dual carriageways running a few kilometres from each other?

http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Plik:NowaMapaS61.svg&filetimestamp=20110202173311


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## Kuras77

This is not S61 but DK61.


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## mcarling

Kuras77 said:


> Bypass of Serock is 7km length.


Thanks.



bleetz said:


> Isn't S61 supposed to start/end at S8 near Zambrow?


I thought near Ostrów Mazowiecka.


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## bleetz

Yes, of course, you are right. My bad.


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## ufonut

A8 AOW (Wroclaw Bypass) almost ready - opening soon - photos by grzybson88



grzybson88 said:


> Idziemy od strony "barykady" przed mostem w stronę stadionu, czasem oglądając się za siebie
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> Tośmy doszli do wiaduktu nad Lotniczą i możemy podziwiać nowoczesny Wrocław, który powstał z niczego  Następna partia będzie od tego miejsca do wiaduktu nad Żernicką.


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## Beck's

Motorway A4 in Poland from junction of national road 46 to junction of voivodenship road 396


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## bleetz

Wroclaw bypass looks fantastic!


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## ufonut

A1 Sosnica - Maciejow by RC Fan Gliwice


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## Don Vito KurDeBalanz

^^ Those are really great & impressive shots. :cheers:


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## katia72

Don Vito KurDeBalanz said:


> ^^ Those are really great & impressive shots. :cheers:


Yeah...










This looks so massive !


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## katia72

ufonut said:


> A1 Sosnica - Maciejow by RC Fan Gliwice
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> Looks like American highway


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## ziMer

^^stupid observation, we are live in Europe so it looks more like European highway non American...


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## Switek

ziMer said:


> ^^stupid observation, we are live in Europe so it looks more like European highway non American...


2X

I haven't seen anything American look like on that pic...


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## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, I don't think there's much "American" in it, though it does resemble something from the New Jersey Turnpike, which in turn, is more European than most other American motorways. It's just a first-class European motorway!


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## rakcancer

Maybe it looks to some people like American highway because is pretty wide at least in this picture. Nothing wrong with that.


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## ja.centy

Very nice piece of motorway. Although have to say, I'm getting slowly spoilt by watching the ongoing road development projects in Poland.  

My only little complaint, if you don't mind, would be too many pics included.




ziMer said:


> ^^stupid observation, we are live in Europe so it looks more like European highway non American...


Chill out man. I suppose katia72 wanted to say it as a compliment. Besides, looking at the photos like those:





...I don't feel offended whatsoever for referring to that A1 piece as 'American highway'.

-


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## Don Vito KurDeBalanz

^^ Neither do I feel offended by Katia72, I'm pretty sure intention was just to highlight that specific picture from the bunch 'cause roads (not only A1) on it really look massive. 

What's offending me and confusing are remarks like ziMer's:



> stupid observation, *we are live *in Europe so it looks more like European highway non American..


:bash:


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## DocentX

katia72 said:


> ufonut said:
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> :eek2::master:
Click to expand...


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## delfin_pl

well, it is said to be the biggest motorway interchange in EU, that's why it does look so American.


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## Switek

delfin_pl said:


> well, it is said to be the biggest motorway interchange in EU, that's why it does look so American.


Well, the only American association which comes to my mind is just waste of the space...


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## edzaedza

Hello! Excuse me, could anyone suggest which roads/highways to take travelling from Kaunas to Munchen(50km east of Munchen).
I'm travelling with no stops and need to get there as fast as possible 
Thanks in advance!


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## Blaskovitz

edzaedza said:


> Hello! Excuse me, could anyone suggest which roads/highways to take travelling from Kaunas to Munchen(50km east of Munchen).
> I'm travelling with no stops and need to get there as fast as possible
> Thanks in advance!




DK8 to Piotrków Trybunalski, next DK1 to Katowice and A4 to german border.
DK8 to Wrocław and next A4 to german border
or simply use only DK8 to Czech border


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## macieii

You are not mentioning the time of the day and the day of the week you will be travelling. 

If you have free choice I would recommend that you plan to reach Warsaw around 10 pm to 11 pm. My suggestion in this scenario would be:
Kaunas-Białystok-Warsaw (some 5 to 6 hours). 
Warsaw-Janki-Piotrkow Trybunalski-Wrocław-Munchen - if you are fast  it is doable in some 10 hours. 

When travelling at night you are avoiding heavy traffic on the roads under reconstruction - there are three major parts;
- S8 past Bialystok, some 26 km. If you choose the 11 pm scenario, you will be passing this part around 9 pm, the traffic should be lower. Alternatively you can choose the route Augustów-Łomża-Ostrów Mazowiecka (road 61+677) , but I don't know if you gain too much. It is also more difficult in terms of the driving effort (narrower road, worse quality of the road etc). Or, if you are experienced traveller, bypass Białystok via Tykocin (road 671)  
- S8 past Warsaw, huge part (70 km or even more), passable only in the night. If you depart from Warsaw around midnight you should be able to pass it at the steady speed of 60 km/h, but I wouldn't expect any major traffic jams. During the day - I would discourage you from using this road. 
- S8 in Warsaw (7 km, but funny . Around 10-11 pm - it is freely passable. 

Honestly, I don't know what route to recommend when you will be travelling during the day. Definitely 
- avoid S8 past Warsaw (Warsaw-Piotrkow Trybunalski)
- avoid Warsaw in the morning


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## edzaedza

Departure is Riga at about 22:30 in this evening, so about 8 in the morning i'll be in Warsaw saturday...


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## macieii

It's pretty hard for me to tell you for sure which route is better. 8am on Saturday morning should not be a big issue in Warsaw. 

Personally I would choose the route to Berlin. For the three reasons:
1. This is the fastest way of getting through and out of Warsaw - simply follow the 8/S8 route.
2. Except for the last 20 km or so just before the German border there is no major reconstruction on your way. 
3. On the alternative route, through Wroclaw, you would have to get through Wrocław around 1-2 pm (no bypass yet), which might slow you down. 
You need some 1,5-2 hrs to get to A2, 2 more on A2 and 1,5 hrs to the border. Not sure about the traffic on the last part, though. Jams or slow traffic may happen. But this would be the only risky part. 

Unfortunately this is the last weekend of holidays here, so you may encounter heavy traffic in general. East-West route is not the most popular route in Poland though, especially westbound and especially on saturdays.


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## bleetz

macieii said:


> Alternatively you can choose the route Augustów-Łomża-Ostrów Mazowiecka (road 61+677) , but I don't know if you gain too much. It is also more difficult in terms of the driving effort (narrower road, worse quality of the road etc).


I normally choose this route, but I have just checked Google Maps and realised that if you go via Knyszyn (Bialystok ringroad?), the road is actually only a few km. longer than the Lomza route. Next time I will try driving through there!

EDIT: now that I look at the pictures of that road, it seems like it is a terrible idea to drive through there. This means that you would have to drive through Bialystok itself, which would add another 20+ km. to your journey. Personally, I think that the Lomza route is still the best option!


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## macieii

Białystok is not a bad option, unless you hit the peak hours, you shouldn't loose too much time as you are actually not driving through the centre. There is also a piece of new road (not sure how to call it) on the entry from Augustow. 

When driving via Bialystok the actual problem is the S8 construction between Białystok and Jeżewo, 28 km of heavy construction works. 

There is also an alternative route - from Knyszyn via Tykocin to Jeżewo  I discourage you from using this road unless you really enjoy the Polish countryside and some really bad roads


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## Sasza

^^ Because of constructions in Bialystok and in road to Warsaw it's not wise idea to choose it. It's now a one big traffic jam because of it and may hours of loss.

But entry from Suwalki is good, it should by S class road, but project of S8 in this place had been abandoned.


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## geogregor

Switek said:


> Well, the only American association which comes to my mind is just waste of the space...


Don't worry they will fit massive shopping mall in the middle of it.

Now, that's real America


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## Nowax

A8 Wroclaw

Fot. Marek Przybyło, Aeroklub Wrocławski


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## mrskoje

Can you tell me what experience Poland made with chinese companies in building of high ways??
And what roads are made by them.


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## Nowax

A8 Wroclaw


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## rav00

mrskoje said:


> Can you tell me what experience Poland made with chinese companies in building of high ways??
> And what roads are made by them.


We've got no such experience because Chinese company terminated the contract before they actually built anything road-like.


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## ja.centy

rav00 said:


> We've got no such experience because *Chinese company terminated the contract* before they actually built anything road-like.


Sorry for interfering but it's rather the opposite, in June the General Directorate for National Roads & Highways (GDDKiA) terminated contract with China's COVEC, due to lack of expected works' progress and after the contract re-negotiations failed.


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## rav00

ja.centy said:


> Sorry for interfering but it's rather the opposite, in June the General Directorate for National Roads & Highways (GDDKiA) terminated contract with China's COVEC, due to lack of expected works' progress and after the contract re-negotiations failed.


My bad. Just wanted to point the fact of termination, whoever's fault it was.


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## ja.centy

A8 Wroclaw Bypass -> Redzinski Bridge _(Polish: Most Rędziński)_



datmar said:


> Parę ujęć z zachodniej strony...


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## mcarling

Switek said:


> Absolutely not. Wroclaw's bypass was originally projected for 110 km/h speed limit, what was caused by the level of the noise limits.





Blaskovitz said:


> No, it still will be 120km/h. That was max. speed on Wrocław bypass.


Oh. In that case, I withdraw my comment. Thanks for the information.


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## Switek

Blaskovitz said:


> No, it still will be 120km/h. That was max. speed on Wrocław bypass.


Seems, you're wrong...



Bodiniusz said:


>


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## Blaskovitz

Switek said:


> Seems, you're wrong...


Read this page! http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=541312&page=639


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## ufonut

S11 Western Bypass of Poznan by Carte (photos from a week ago)



Carte said:


> Kilka zdjęć z zeszłego tygodnia.
> Swadzim
> 
> 
> Zakrzewo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A2/S11





Carte said:


>


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## Switek

Blaskovitz said:


> Read this page! http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=541312&page=639


I took my previously postet pic exactly from this thread.


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## ChrisZwolle

Those trees within the cloverleaf are not really good for the line of sight.


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## Blaskovitz

Switek said:


> I took my previously postet pic exactly from this thread.


Read posts no. 12764 and 12766.


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## nv2

ChrisZwolle said:


> Those trees within the cloverleaf are not really good for the line of sight.


You wrong. Take a close look on directions.


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## polskadan

ChrisZwolle said:


> Those trees within the cloverleaf are not really good for the line of sight.


The trees are always on the opposite side of the direction of traffic that you are merging onto, so how does this in any way interfere with your line of sight? Anyways, seen this in the U.S. a few times and it only makes the highway blend in better with its surroundings.


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## mcarling

polskadan said:


> The trees are always on the opposite side of the direction of traffic that you are merging onto, so how does this in any way interfere with your line of sight?


Simple. As one enters the cloverleaf, the trees block one's view of the road further along the cloverleaf. If there is an obstruction or safety hazard on the opposite side of the cloverleaf, it's better to know about it earlier rather than later.


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ That's exactly what I meant. I've seen it often in Germany with overgrown roadsides where the line of sight was just not far enough to safely pass another vehicle. It's the same with cloverleafs, because you may not be able to see far enough ahead if there is an obstruction (for instance an accident, breakdown or stalled vehicle).


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## toonczyk

I really don't think it's that big of a deal, since you already drive really slow on such a tight cloverleaf bend (40km/h or so).


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## Switek

Considering the fact that near is small lake I guess that those trees have been left for purpose. May be there were examined some potential problems with drainage. Trees are very good in moisture absorbing.


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## ja.centy

ChrisZwolle said:


> Those trees within the cloverleaf are not really good for the line of sight.


Chris, I think I've already mentioned that the other day, but let me repeat in case you would've forgotten: there's enough domestic malcontents in Poland, no need for more of them from abroad. :tongue2: 



> Originally Posted by *Carte*


Wow, I like this one, it resembles a cress _(rzeżucha)_ to me, or rather four cresses. 

-


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## RipleyLV

The only place where Bratislava is signed on DK1 (or Poland?) is between Tychy and Bielsko-Biała (GM location: http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=E75&hl=lv&ll=50.04777,18.961716&spn=0.093367,0.2635&sll=50.00134,18.977852&sspn=0.093457,0.2635&geocode=FTCu-wIdrgwhAQ&vpsrc=6&mra=mr&z=13):








- - -
Žilina is now signed on S1/S69 junction signs, though driving a truck (<12t) using S69 to Slovakia is pointless as the other side is lacking a proper connection.
- - -
Straight roads have been made at Cieszyn (PL/CZ) and Budzisko (PL/LT) borders, trucks aswell light vehicles don't have to drive through terminal.
- - - 
Distance sign with Helsinki signed has been removed at Cieszyn. 
- - -
After the new estacade (DK8/DK65 junction) in Białystok on one of the distance signs show Budzisko as the border with Belarus (PL/BY). :lol:


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## Blaskovitz

^^

I was there on saturady!  By bike :cheers:


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## RipleyLV

Blaskovitz said:


> I was there on saturady!  By bike :cheers:


I was driving back (Warszawa direction) Sunday night. The picture I took was on 17th of August.


----------



## Rusonaldo




----------



## Surel

How is it going with the border section of A1? Will it be ready in the spring?


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## Matz32Z

Bypass Wroclaw A8 Open :banana:


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## ChrisZwolle

And when will it be constructed?


----------



## Curz

^^
"Further developement", so DTŚ in eastbound direction will begin construction after 2020 or later. Don't know what's going on with the Gliwice section though, maybe sometime between 2013 and 2015?


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## mcarling

*DTŚ*

In case any readers don't know what DTŚ is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drogowa_Trasa_Średnicowa


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## Blaskovitz

Newest map


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## RipleyLV

Blaskovitz said:


> Newest map


Thank you!


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## mcarling

Blaskovitz said:


> Newest map


Thanks!

The obvious change from the previous version of the map is the A8. Are there any other changes?


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## Blaskovitz

mcarling said:


> Thanks!
> 
> The obvious change from the previous version of the map is the A8. Are there any other changes?


No, but soon will be A1 in Gliwice.


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## mcarling

Blaskovitz said:


> soon will be A1 in Gliwice.


I guess a few kilometers of the A2 near the German border will also open soon.


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## Switek

mcarling said:


> I guess a few kilometers of the A2 near the German border will also open soon.


On November.


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## Blaskovitz

mcarling said:


> I guess a few kilometers of the A2 near the German border will also open soon.


Yeah, a few  102km :cheers:


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## RipleyLV

Opening of Nowy Tomyśl-Świecko part is in November?


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## mcarling

Blaskovitz said:


> Yeah, a few 102km


I meant the 3 kilometers between the German border and DK29. Is this section not due to open this month?


----------



## Blaskovitz

RipleyLV said:


> Opening of Nowy Tomyśl-Świecko part is in November?


Yes, 30.11.2011



mcarling said:


> I meant the 3 kilometers between the German border and DK29. Is this section not due to open this month?


You are absolutly right, 30.09.2011


----------



## stauzone

Blaskovitz said:


> Newest map
> 
> http://ssc-mapa.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/nowa-mapa.png


 
What is meant with "ziz" ? what does it mean?


----------



## mcarling

...


----------



## MajKeR_

"zaprojektuj i zbuduj" - let draft and build


----------



## Janek0

PPP (partnerstwo publiczno-prywatne) = PPP (public-private partnership)
ZiZ (zaprojektuj i zbuduj) = DB (design-build)


----------



## stauzone

MajKeR_ said:


> "zaprojektuj i zbuduj" - let draft and build


 
Thanks very much!


----------



## Mateusz

Blaskovitz said:


> Of course. Even extend DTŚ to Mysłowice and Sosnowiec.


What's the solution for DTS through Gliwice. A tunnel ?


----------



## Blaskovitz

Mateusz said:


> What's the solution for DTS through Gliwice. A tunnel ?


No, normal road.


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## mcarling

^^
Have these been reported to Google Maps via teleatlas.com?


----------



## Janek0

Teleatlas and PPWK (map provider for Poland) already has them and I have no idea why Google doesn't get updates from them.


----------



## timo9

^^


----------



## mcarling

Janek0 said:


> Teleatlas and PPWK (map provider for Poland) already has them and I have no idea why Google doesn't get updates from them.


Then it seems that we've probably done all that we can about this and there may be nothing for us left to do but try to find some more patience. I suggest that we continue to report road openings to Teleatlas and PPWK. It might help and cannot hurt.


----------



## Rain Maker

bebe.2006 said:


> ^^For example the road S3 opened on:
> 
> 26.05.2010 - S3 Szczecin (Klucz) - Pyrzyce, 2x2, 28,2 km
> 22.10.2010 - S3 Pyrzyce - Myślibórz, 2x2, 26,7 km
> 30.12.2010 - S3 Myślibórz - Gorzów Wkp., 2x2, 26,7 km
> 
> ist still not presented on Google Maps.


Haha, who cares about google. It's their problem.:bash: Use targeo.pl or viamichelin.pl. They're staying up to date with such developments. It's obvious that a good map is updated map. Is google map trustworthy source, if such things are happening on a daily basis?


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## rakcancer

tarego.pl is OK. viamichelin.pl is pretty bad. F.i. to find the newest A4 section from German border to Krzyzowa you need to zoom in half the way. The same with other roads. Whole Poland look like desert country comparing to Germany... and that simply not true. They just don't care about such a "details"...


----------



## ufonut

A4 Szarow-Tarnow 



Stradie said:


> To teraz coś miłego dla oka.  Węzeł Tarnów Północ. (A4/DK73)
> 
> 12.09.2011
> 
> 
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> Za: RDN Małopolska.


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## bigalowski

Rain Maker said:


> Haha, who cares about google. It's their problem.:bash: Use targeo.pl or viamichelin.pl. They're staying up to date with such developments. It's obvious that a good map is updated map. Is google map trustworthy source, if such things are happening on a daily basis?


I have been using viamichelin for years. I like this site. However, their update is delayed by a lot. There is no sign they are doing anything about that either! That's it.


----------



## ufonut

A1 in Gliwice by Kuban



Kuban said:


> Witam.
> Wrzucę kilka dzisiejszych fotek z Gliwickiego odcinka
> 
> 1. Na początek z WK-463, widok na południe
> 
> 
> 2.
> 
> 
> 3. zoom
> 
> 
> 4. i zoom
> 
> 
> 5.
> 
> 
> 6. widok na północ i WK-462
> 
> 
> 7.
> 
> 
> 8.
> 
> 
> cdn...





Kuban said:


> 9. teraz z WK-462, z widokiem na południe
> 
> 
> 10.
> 
> 
> 11.
> 
> 
> 12.
> 
> 
> 13. i na północ
> 
> 
> 14.
> 
> 
> 15. zoom
> 
> 
> 16. i zoom
> 
> 
> 17.
> 
> 
> 18. z nad pasa rozdziału, jednia w kierunku południowym
> 
> 
> 19. i kierunku północnym
> 
> 
> 20.
> 
> 
> 21.
> 
> 
> 22. z dalszej perspektywy
> 
> 
> 23. i zoom na oznakowanie


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It looks awesome. Apart from the huge ugly date stamp in the lower right.


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## rakcancer

^^:lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

How often do you see greenfield construction that immediately has a 10-lane setup? Almost never. I can't remember any example at least. Poster child project!


----------



## Chris80678

Wow A1 in Gliwice looks stupendous. Red seems to be the colour of choice on this stretch of motorway with practically every viaduct painted with it. 
Is the 26th September the scheduled opening date for A1 Sosnica-Maciejów?


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> How often do you see greenfield construction that immediately has a 10-lane setup? Almost never. I can't remember any example at least. Poster child project!


Wait for S2 in Warsaw... it's going to be even better...
http://siskom.waw.pl/materialy/s2/s2_siwz/sytuacja.pdf (40+ MB)


----------



## kalle_sg

ChrisZwolle said:


> How often do you see greenfield construction that immediately has a 10-lane setup?


I guess that gives a clue on how underdeveloped the Polish road infrastructure has been so far. But yes, it is damn impressive! Great job - and congratulations to Gliwice, the first Polish city to have a full ring road with grade separation kay:



Jakub Warszauer said:


> Wait for S2 in Warsaw... it's going to be even better...
> http://siskom.waw.pl/materialy/s2/s2_siwz/sytuacja.pdf (40+ MB)


And how exactly is that better? If I see correctly, the S2 won't be as wide as A1. The number of the lanes is the same, while A1's lanes are a bit wider.


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## Jakub Warszauer

kalle_sg said:


> And how exactly is that better? If I see correctly, the S2 won't be as wide as A1. The number of the lanes is the same, while A1's lanes are a bit wider.


Wrong chart. This one is better:
http://siskom.waw.pl/materialy/s2/s2_siwz/org_docelowa_etapIII.pdf

Junction with Aleja Krakowska will be... 16 lanes wide, if we count everything .


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## Nowax

Photos : Marek Kocjan - http://www.kocjan.pl/thumbnails-68.html



[S69] Bielsko-Biała - Żywiec


[S69] Bielsko-Biała - Żywiec


[S69] Bielsko-Biała - Żywiec


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## ChrisZwolle

Good heavens, is the curve on that center photo part of the mainline expressway?


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## TheFlyPL

ChrisZwolle said:


> Good heavens, is the curve on that center photo part of the mainline expressway?


This is the entrance. In the future the road should go down the picture.


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## Stratocaster

ChrisZwolle said:


> Good heavens, is the curve on that center photo part of the mainline expressway?


It is temporary connection (in future S1/S69/S?52). Take a better look, you can figure it out.


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## kamilbuk

I'd rather ask why older parts of A2 are not made of concrete.


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## jeremiash

From what I know, in this case it turned out that concrete would be both better (more durable) and less expensive in the long run, therefore that is what they went with.


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## ufonut

S69 Bielsko-Biala - Zywiec by Esce



esce said:


> Zrobiłem w niedzielę nieco zdjęć z prawie gotowej obwodnicy Bielska-Białej. Mam nadzieję, że widok skończonej drogi wynagrodzi wam ubogie opisy
> 
> 1. Rozpoczynamy na węźle Rosta, widok na wiadukt węzłowy.
> 
> 
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> 2.
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> 3. Pas włączenia w kierunku Żywca.
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> 4.
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> 5. Obrót w kierunku Cieszyna.
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> 6. Zapowiedź następnego węzła.
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> 7. Widok w kierunku Żywca.
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> 9. Obrót w kierunku Cieszyna.
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> 10.





esce said:


> 11. Patrzymy w kierunku Cieszyna.
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> 12.
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> 13. Kierunek Żywiec.
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> 14. Kierunek Cieszyn.
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> 15. Trzeba zlikwidować wjazd na budowę stawiając brakujące ekrany.
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> 16. Kierunek Żywiec.
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> 17. Przyszły węzeł Suchy Potok.
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> 18. Widać początek nieistniejącej łącznicy
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> 20. Obrót w kierunku Cieszyna.





esce said:


> 21. Osłony przeciwolśnieniowe czekają na montaż.
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> 22. Kierunek Żywiec.
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> 23. Pod wiaduktem.
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> 30.





esce said:


> 31.
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> 32. Następne zdjęcie w kierunku Cieszyna - przed ograniczeniami będzie mrugać ostrzegawczy sygnalizator.
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> 33. Schodzimy niżej, widok w kierunku Cieszyna.
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> 34. Kierunek Żywiec.
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> 36. Kierunek Cieszyn.
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> 38. Wiadukt w ciągu ul. Krakowskiej (węzeł Bielsko-Biała Lipnik), widok w stronę Cieszyna.
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> 39. Trochę się oddalamy.
> 
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> 40. Kościół w Lipniku.





esce said:


> 41.
> 
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> 42. Cały czas patrzymy w kierunku Cieszyna.
> 
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> 44. Obrót w kierunku Żywca.
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> 46. Kierunek Cieszyn.
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> 47. Ten kościół będzie jednym z bardziej charakterystycznych punktów tej drogi. Chyba trudno spotkać na jakiejkolwiek polskiej ekspresówce lub autostradzie tak "dobrze skomunikowaną" świątynię
> 
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> 48. Widok z estakady w kierunku Cieszyna.
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> 49. Obrót w kierunku Żywca.
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> 50. Kierunek Cieszyn.


----------



## Kuras77

A1 near Nowe Marzy and bridge at Wisla river.



Morpheius said:


> Pozwolę sobie wrzucić kilka świeżych zdjęć lotniczych z A1, opublikowanych przez Wyborczą:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice job on the S69 photos Esce


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## bleetz

What is going on in esce's photo number 5? Are these marks left by construction vehicles?


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## Luki_SL

^^It should be marks left by construction vehicles. On the other hand it could be private cars, which was there illegally.


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## mappero

Are they going to open S69 in between Bielsko-Biala and Zywiec soon? I was driving there in both directions last weekend still on DK69 and progress on work looks immense


----------



## Uppsala

When are they going to repair A18? If you are going from Golnice to the German border the motorway is very good. But the other direction is horrible. From German border to Golnice, this motorway is maybe the worst in Europe. Its in so bad condidion so when i'm driving on that part i'm afraid the car is going to be broken because the motorway is in so very bad condition.

So when are they going to do someting with this motorway? I think this motorway is a shame for Poland. When i'm going from Germany at a quite normal motorway and then pass the border and see this horrible motorway Poland look like something terrible just because the motorway is so very bad here. So I really hope they soon are going to do something with this horrible motorway.


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## jeremiash

Technically that is not a motorway, it is a normal dual carriageway road with a 100 km/hr speed limit. I believe the tender to fix the south carriageway was cancelled this year, and is not a priority atm. While the road may be tragic when it comes to driving comfort, it does provide more safety than many other roads in poland. For now it looks as though upgrading this section may be a matter of 10 years.


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## kooba

I drive this road last week, and I agree that it's horrible. But it's quite safe road, with small traffic, and north carriageway is in perfect shape. Because of recent financial cuts this road gets lowest priority, and there is no hope for repair in any near future. 

Also there is no possibility of use north carriageway for both direction. No chance for any ad hoc repair neither. But this is good thinking - if you do something do it right.

And just like jeremiash said it's not motorway - it's droga krajowa 18 (national road). Nonetheless I think there is no reason to put speed limit less than 140km/h on north carriageway. If it's okay on other motorways, and clearly north carriageway meet every motorway standards.


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## Lankosher

Uppsala said:


> When are they going to repair A18? If you are going from Golnice to the German border the motorway is very good. But the other direction is horrible. From German border to Golnice, this motorway is maybe the worst in Europe. Its in so bad condidion so when i'm driving on that part i'm afraid the car is going to be broken because the motorway is in so very bad condition.
> 
> So when are they going to do someting with this motorway? I think this motorway is a shame for Poland. When i'm going from Germany at a quite normal motorway and then pass the border and see this horrible motorway Poland look like something terrible just because the motorway is so very bad here. So I really hope they soon are going to do something with this horrible motorway.



Tender has been cancelled due to lack of fundings. Also, long-awaited construction permit is yet to be issued any time now, however the new tender will not kick off unless GDDKiA finds money for that. To be realistic, the works will not commence sooner than spring 2013..... 

Bad thing is that the police has not agreed to close the south lane either, so It appears that we will have to face this shame for much longer...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

jeremiash said:


> Technically that is not a motorway, it is a normal dual carriageway road with a 100 km/hr speed limit.


That is no excuse for the absolutely unacceptable condition this roadway is in. While it may technically not be a motorway, it is part of the European high-standard, international road network. It has the same function as the other direction, or German A15.


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## mcarling

There are so many priorities much higher than resurfacing the eastbound carriageway of the DK18. For example, completing the S7 between Warsaw and Krakow. There are many others.


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## Uppsala

Very strange! The A18 is built like a motorway. They had never built it like a normal road. From the begin A18 was built by Germans in 1930s. The Germans just built one carriageway, but they planned to built the other later. But from the begin it was built to be a motorway. So from 1930s to 2004 it was like a half motorway, not completed.

But in 2004-2007 this motorway was completed with the second carriageway and the motorway is complete from 2007. But the old carriageway is in a very bad condition. So I think it should be natural to repair the old carriageway and the really sign it with motorway signs.

This motorway is important. I'ts a part of an important motorway from Berlin to Kraków. Its a part om the E36 and it's also a part of Corridor 3. It's a part of the Trans European Motorways. I also notice it's a lot of trucks using this motorway from Germany to Ukraine or more eastern places. So this motorway is important. And many people going from Germany to Poland are using this motorway. The German motorway A15 looks very normal. And all traffic that are going over the border to Poland see the normal German motorway change to this horrible Polish motorway A18. 

Even if they dont sign it with motorway sign, it is a motorway and its built like a motorway. And a very important part of the motorway from Berlin to Kraków.

I think this motorway is a real shame for Poland.


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## Jakub Warszauer

Uppsala said:


> This motorway is important.


I don't care how good and important this motorway looks on a map. The truth is that it's AADT is way below anything that would give a reason to build a motorway there.

This road is screaming for 2+1 alignment and 2x2 around the junctions. Like S6 around Słupsk. Nothing more for the following decade.



> I think this motorway is a real shame for Poland.


True.


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## kooba

Uppsala said:


> But in 2004-2007 this motorway was completed with the second carriageway and the motorway is complete from 2007. But the old carriageway is in a very bad condition. So I think it should be natural to repair the old carriageway and the really sign it with motorway signs.


Naturally you right, but theres no money. And it is no motorway since you can't move faster than 70-80 on this south lane. There is plenty bad things about polish road, but you've got to admit that if something is not in motorway standard it's not signed as one. 




> This motorway is important. I'ts a part of an important motorway from Berlin to Kraków. (...) And many people going from Germany to Poland are using this motorway.


But there have to be some priorities. Polish roads are first for polish people, then for international transport. Big polish cities are not connected by motorways (Warsaw-Krakow, Poznan-Wroclaw, etc) because there is no money for it, so it's natural that we don't build road that connect border with another road (A4) mostly through the woods.



> I think this motorway is a real shame for Poland.


Agreed, but there is nothing we can do right now.


----------



## DocentX

Uppsala said:


> I think this motorway is a real shame for Poland.


Rome wasn't built in a day - we can not build all the roads, restore all the cities and towns etc. in a few years time - there are some priorities.

One day we will overtake Germany :yes: , but we still need sth like 40-50 years.


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## Luki_SL

^^Western countries started thier motorways construction in 1950s (Germany earlier), In Poland we started at the beginnig of the XXI century... In fakt it`s 50 years later...


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## mcarling

DocentX said:


> One day we will overtake Germany :yes: , but we still need sth like 40-50 years.


The way things have been going for the last ten to twenty years, it won't take that long.


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## Uppsala

Luki_SL said:


> ^^Western countries started thier motorways construction in 1950s (Germany earlier), In Poland we started at the beginnig of the XXI century... In fakt it`s 50 years later...


Some motorways in Poland are very old, built by the Germans. A18 and the western parts of A4 are built in 1930s. Same with A6 from German border to Szczecin.

A4 from Krakow to Katowice was built in 1980s, and I think they started to build that part around 1976 or something like that.

But you are right. The real plans to build motorways in Poland started much later, something around 1995.


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## Switek

Comparing Poland with Western and Nordic countries is ridiculous... The first reason is that Poland had enormously devastated infrastructure after WW2. The second is that for Poland, from both: economical and political sense, WW2 has ended in 1989. 

I still can find you many homes with holes made by bullets in whole Poland.


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## stratotroter

^^ Sad but true.


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## Luki_SL

From : http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/article/99...-a4-brzesko---wierzchoslawice-has-been-signed


Contract for the continuation of construction of motorway A4 Brzesko – Wierzchosławice has been signed 
On 27.09.2011 a contract for the continuation of construction of motorway A-4 on the section Brzesko – Wierzchosławice was signed from km 479+000 up to km 499+800. The contract was signed by: director Jacek Gryga and the deputy director Tomasz Pałasiński from the side of GDDKiA Division in Kraków and Grzegorz Molicki, proxy of the consortium. On Thursday 29.09.2011 handover of the construction site to the contractor is planned.

On 02.09.2011 bid no. 6 was chosen as the most advantageous one, submitted by the Consortium: Heilit + Woerner Budowlana Sp z o.o., Wysoka, ul. Lipowa 5a, 52-200 Wrocław; Strabag Sp. z o.o., ul. Parzniewska 10, 05-800 Pruszków; Poldim Spółka Akcyjna, ul. Kochanowskiego 37a, 33-100 Tarnów; Przedsiębiorstwo Inżynieryjne IMB – PODBESKIDZIE Sp. z o.o., ul. Górny Bór 31a, 43-340 Skoczów, for the offer price: 641 763 376.79 PLN.

The construction will be realised within the term of 15 months. Winter periods are also included in the time of realisation.

The subject-matter of the procurement is the execution of construction works consisting in continuation of construction of a 21 km section of motorway A-4 Brzesko – Wierzchosławice from km 479+000 up to km 499+800. The task includes continuation of construction works related to the construction of motorway A4 on the section Brzesko – Wierzchosławice in km from 479+000 up to km 499+800, suspended in March 2011. The Basic Documentation constitutes the basis for the execution of the task. The stage of works is specified by the Differential Documentation, developed on the basis of inventory control of the works. Differential Documentation specifies the scope and amount of works executed until the time of suspending the works, as well as specifies the scope and amount of works necessary to perform the complete final product in accordance with the Basic Documentation.

The scope of the construction works included in particular:

• continuation of construction of the motorway section of the length approx. 21 km of the cross-section 2 x 2 traffic lanes + emergency lane and technical parameters of the road class A;
• continuation of construction of the collision-free motorway “Wierzchosławice” in km 498+870,53,
• continuation of construction of the engineering structures (bridges, road and motorway viaducts),
• continuation of construction of utility rearrangement and construction of technical infrastructure related to the motorway functioning,
• continuation of construction of the Rest and Service Areas: RSA I Mokrzyska, km 480+100 and RSA I Bagno km 480+800

Justification of the choice:
Among all the bids, which were not a subject to refusal, a bid that presented the most favourable price balance and the criteria “Date of completion” was chosen. The bid complies with all requirements specified in the act as well as in Terms of Reference (TOR) and was evaluated as the most advantageous one, based on the procurement notice given in paragraph IV.2.1) and paragraph 14 of the TOR choice criteria.


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## Luki_SL

A1 section Gliwice Sośnica - Gliwice (Maciejów) will be open tonight. This section in 6,017 km long.
Photos from : http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/article/9913/a-1-maciejow-sosnica---dzis-wieczorem-otwarcie-dla-ruchu


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## mappero

From AOW thread:



salto_angel said:


> Nowe lotnicze z Wrocław2012:


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## Luki_SL

From : http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/article/9917/a-1-maciejow-sosnica---will-be-opened-for-traffic-tonight


> A-1 Maciejów-Sośnica - will be opened for traffic tonight
> The section of the motorway A-1 Maciejów -Sośnica will be opened to traffic on 30 September 2011 in the evening.
> 
> Section A-1 Maciejów -Sośnica id 6.017 kilometres long. Its construction began in March 2009; work was carried out by a consortium of companies POLIMEX-MOSTOSTAL (leader), Doprastav a.s. (partner), EUROVIA POLAND SA (partner), PRDiM SA (partner). Construction supervision was exercised by the consortium of companies ARCADIS Sp. z o. o. and MottMcDonald Limited.
> 
> This investment is co-financed by the European Union Cohesion Fund under the Operational Programme Infrastructure and Environment.
> 
> 
> 
> 13 engineering objects were built under this contract over and within the highways: bridges, viaducts, overpasses and culverts tailored to the migration of small and medium-sized animals. This section of A-1 includes the overpass in Silesia, which is also the second longest overpass in Poland (it is first by weight and volume), and the fourth such object in Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> Have a safe journey and be careful on the road!


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## ufonut

I think it opened for business.


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## Chris80678

I love the way that A-1 Maciejów - Sośnica looks like a snake winding its way through the Silesia conurbation - such a noticeable and pretty curve in this part of the motorway :banana:. Looking forward to seeing the A1 being extended and opened up to Piekary Śląskie in December 2011 :cheers:


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## Janek0

S69/S1 Bielsko-Biała bypass



marek_kocjan said:


> FILMY Z PRZEJAZDU CAŁĄ OBWODNICĄ
> 
> Prędkość:
> Komorowice-Rosta ok. 100 km/h
> Rosta-Mikuszowice ok. 70 km/h
> 
> Czas przejazdu: ok 9 minut!
> Każdy chyba wie, ile czasu zajmuje obecnie przejazd przez centrum...
> 
> Przejazd z pomocą i oczywiście za zgodą firmy *Kirchner*.
> 
> Węzeł Mikuszowice - Węzeł Komorowice:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Węzeł Komorowice - Węzeł Mikuszowice:


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## caicoo

congratulations to Poland, you guys doing a great progress


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## Bzyq_74

Section A-1 Maciejów -Sośnica -Maciejów on film:


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## Blaskovitz

Newest map


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## lukander

The New Section of A1 Sośnica-Maciejów(soundtrack U2):





And little older Section of A1 Świerklany-Sośnica(soundtrack U2):





Enjoy


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## Luki_SL

^^There is one problem on the newly opended section of A1 : there are no lighting. Before the opening thieves have stolen power cables... It is said that in few days the lighting will be repaired.


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## Warsawbynight

Chris80678 said:


> I love the way that A-1 Maciejów - Sośnica looks like a snake winding its way through the Silesia conurbation - such a noticeable and pretty curve in this part of the motorway :banana:


It looks like Silvertone's Becketts corner! I'd love to try it with F1 car


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## lafreak84

Can you re-post the map in lower resolution (1024) and can you also tell us what does each color represent?


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## ChrisZwolle

So, when will A1 Grudziądz - Toruń open to traffic?


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## Janek0

green - operating
green+yellow - operating toll
red - construction
magenta - design-build contract (designing)
yellow - tender
brown - design-build tender
blue - environmental decision



ChrisZwolle said:


> So, when will A1 Grudziądz - Toruń open to traffic?


October 14th, ~7pm


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## Hetman

ChrisZwolle said:


> So, when will A1 Grudziądz - Toruń open to traffic?


Friday, 14th in the evening.


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## ufonut

Updating S8 Wroclaw-Lodz table since several contracts were signed today:



kflis said:


> Code:
> 
> 
> Nr| Opis                         | Etap                                 | ZRID | Pikietaż                |
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> [url="http://gddkia.gov.pl/auction/8342/show"]1[/url] | S8 węzeł Walichnowy          | [B]W budowie - Budimex  (15.03.2013)[/B]    | [B]Tak[/B]  |  99+937,00 - 101+972,92 |
> [url="http://gddkia.gov.pl/auction/12062/show"]2[/url] | S8 Walichnowy - Złoczew (w)  | Po wyborze oferty - Hermann Kirchner | [B]Tak[/B]  | 101+972,92 - 120+961,30 |
> [url="http://gddkia.gov.pl/auction/12064/show"]4[/url] | S8 Złoczew - Sieradz Pd. (w) | Po wyborze oferty - Strabag          | [B]Tak[/B]  | 120+961,30 - 140+552,05 |
> [url="http://gddkia.gov.pl/auction/12065/show"]5[/url] | S8 Sieradz Pd. - Łask        | Po wyborze oferty - Pol-Aqua         | [B]Tak[/B]  | 140+552,05 - 174+200,00 |
> [url="http://gddkia.gov.pl/auction/9984/show"]6[/url] | S8 Łask (w) - Róża (w)       | [B]W budowie - Pol-Aqua (05.01.2014)[/B]    | [B]Tak[/B]  | 174+200,00 - 183+350,00 |
> [url="http://gddkia.gov.pl/auction/9985/show"]8[/url] | S8 Róża - Łódź Południe      | [B]W budowie - Budimex  (05.01.2014)[/B]    | [B]Tak[/B]  | 183+350,00 - 202+700,00 |
> [url="http://gddkia.gov.pl/auction/9986/show"]9[/url] | S8 węzeł Łódź Południe       | [B]W budowie - Skanska  (05.01.2014)[/B]    | [B]Tak[/B]  | 202+700,00 - 204+000,00 |
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> [url="http://gddkia.gov.pl/auction/12063/show"]3[/url] | DK12 łącznik pod Sieradzem   | Po wyborze oferty - PRDiM Sieradz    | [B]Tak[/B]  |   0+000,00 -   6+072,88 |
> [url="http://gddkia.gov.pl/auction/9984/show"]7[/url] | S14 Róża - Dobroń            | [B]W budowie - Pol-Aqua (05.01.2014)[/B]    | [B]Tak[/B]  |  76+479,94 -  79+800,00 |
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"w budowie" means "under construction"


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## ChrisZwolle

http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/userfiles/...budowe_s8/S8_W-W_Orientacja_A3_2011_07_13.pdf

I see they thankgodfully changed the name of Węzeł Wrocław (A1/S8) to Węzeł Łódź-Południe.


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> I wonder about DK9. From what I read, it is not an important road, the least important 1-digit road number in Poland. Why didn't they number DK19 as DK9?


It is true, that from aesthetic point of view DK19 should be renamed as DK9. One of many inconsistencies that happen in every country.

But, on the other hand, DK9 is in my opinion one of the most underestimated routes in Poland. It connects south-estern Poland: Reszów and never finished, yet important Central Industry Region (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Industrial_Region_(Poland) with future S7 i.e. Warsaw.

The economic heart of Poland lies in north-central, central and south-central Poland, and prosperity od peripheral regions depends on their connection with it. That is why an upgrade of DK9 to maximum GP-class would be much more reasonable than construction of S19 between Białystok, Lublin, Rzeszów and national borders (bypasses of these cities are needed for yesterday).


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## kmieciu

bleetz said:


> Excellent pictures and great progress. When is the whole section scheduled to be opened?


S3 Gorzów - Międzyrzecz is scheduled to be opened in 05/2014
S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów is scheduled to be opened in 06/2013

Looking on progress on the construcion site I hope it will be done maybe 6 months or more earlier. It depends how hard this year winter will be.


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## Luki_SL

^^I hope this year winter won`t be hard


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## Blaskovitz

Luki_SL said:


> ^^I hope this year winter won`t be hard



Me too, now we have great, sunny and hot autumn


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## Nowax

[A1] Pyrzowice - Gorzyczki (CZ) by Bula8 :cheers:


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## kmieciu

*A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl*

New page Autostrada Wielkopolska A2. There is info that whole concrete layer is finished on stretch Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl (106km).

Opening on 01.12.2011, stretch Świecko - Rzepin is toll free and Rzepin - Nowy Tomyśl will be toll free till 21.05.2012.



> Concrete paving on the whole A2 Motorway section to Świecko completed!
> 
> 06.10.2011 - 11:29
> 
> It is only two months left until the official opening of the A2 motorway leading to the border with Germany. We can already announce the completion of concrete paving on the whole over 100 kilometres long section of A2. In this extremely short period of time, we were able to make this difficult task possible. The total area of the concrete surface is as many as 2 mln 265 thousand square metres, which is equal to the size of almost 300 football grounds! The estimated cost of the whole investment came to 1 billion 298 million Euros. 25% of this amount, that is every fourth PLN, was spent on environmental protection, i.a. on the construction of animal passages or noise barriers. The Development Company - A2strada and General Contractor - Strabag corporation were laying the concrete paving at the rate of 1 kilometre per day under favourable weather conditions. Due to that, the motorway will be available for use as soon as December 1st this year, that is half year before the date fixed in the contract with the government. Good news for drivers – the drive through the passage between Świecko and Nowy Tomyśl will be free of charge until May 2012.





> Official opening of the last sector of motorway to Świecko as early as 30th November this year!
> 
> 05.10.2011 - 13:37
> 
> With the start of December, the long awaited launching of the last sector of A2 motorway, connecting Poland with the network of European motorways will take place. First drivers might use the possibility of a fast ride to the border checkpoint in Świecko already on December 1st this year. For the first half-year, the usage of this over 100 kilometres long section of A2 motorway will be free off charge. The fare collection will start with the beginning of May 2012.


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## kamilbuk

It is also written that this part of A2 will be opened on 1st December 2011, half year before established date. There will be no fee until May 2011.


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## mcarling

kamilbuk said:


> There will be no fee until May 2011.


I didn't try to read the Polish language version, but the English language version has a more realistic date: "The fare collection will start with the beginning of May 2012."
http://www.autostrada-a2.pl/en/driv...o-swiecko-as-early-as-30th-november-this-year


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## kamilbuk

I meant 2012 of course.


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## Luki_SL

A4 Sośnica - Jaworzno by Bula: 


Bula8 said:


> Zaczynamy od Węzła Wspólna + OUA
> 
> 
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> Sam Węzeł
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> Samo OUA
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> Lecimy dalej w stronę Katowic
> 
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> 
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> 
> MOP Wirek i Halemba
> 
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> I dalej na Katowice
> 
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> Przed Węzłem Batory
> 
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> Tu już kawałek Węzła
> 
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> A tu prawie cały
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> Lecimy dalej
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> Katowice
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> Węzeł Murckowska
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> A4 w Katowicach
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> Za Węzłem Murckowska w stronę Krakowa
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> I gdzieś już za bramkami


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## hammersklavier

The way those motorways swoop around Small Town Poland is just unbelievably beautiful!


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## Blaskovitz

ViaToll 1st stage.


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## ChrisZwolle

If I'm correct, the Karty opłat drogowych (road toll card) applied to all DK-roads, but ViaTOLL so far for only a small selection of DK-roads which are not motorways. Isn't revenue dropping with this?


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## jeremiash

Actually, with the road toll card someone had to compensate for all the truck traffic driving for free on the private motorway stretches, which meant that the state had to pay out a lot of money to the concessionaires. This sometimes cost more than the road toll cards were bringing in (that was the case in 2008 or smth), in other years they didn't make much profit either. With viaToll the revenues are much higher, 180 mln zł in the first 3 months, expected to turn into 400 mln zł in 6 months, and this amount will grow with more users, more roads in the system and less people using free routes (time is money).
If anyone wants more exact numbers, here they go:

road toll cards
Costs Revenues Year 
694 mln zł 608 mln zł 2008
657 mln zł 815 mln zł 2009
417 mln zł 626 mln zł first half of 2010

viatoll (plans) 
Costs Revenues Year
1281 mln zł 404 mln zł second half of 2010
275 mln zł 929 mln zł 2012
451 mln zł 1868 mln zl 2013
367 mln zł 2230 mln zł 2014
428 mln zł 2409 mln zł 2015
506 mln zł 2483 mln zl 2016
341 mln zł 2550 mln zł 2017
215 mln zl 1303 mln zl first half of 2018

at the moment revenues from viatoll are what they were expected to be.


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## Marbur66

I don't understand why the dividing line on Polish roads is white, same as the others. Seems like it would be easy to get confused and go into opposing traffic, no?


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## toonczyk

Marbur66 said:


> I don't understand why the dividing line on Polish roads is white, same as the others. Seems like it would be easy to get confused and go into opposing traffic, no?


Not really, that's pretty much a standard in Europe. Actually, I've never seen a yellow dividing line (with other markings in white) outside of North America.


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## Marbur66

toonczyk said:


> Not really, that's pretty much a standard in Europe. Actually, I've never seen a yellow dividing line (with other markings in white) outside of North America.


Ok, thanks.


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## ChrisZwolle

It can sometimes looks confusing on photos in North American eyes, but when you drive somewhere, there's no confusion. I've never felt confused or asked myself whether I was on a single direction or two-way roadway.


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## rav00

If you go into opposing traffic you'll be looking for headlights, not lines on the road. ;]


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## Luki_SL

From: http://gddkia.gov.pl/article/9946/f...ruction-of-the-s8-expressway-have-been-signed


> *Four new contracts for the construction of the S8 expressway have been signed*
> The contracts for four sections of the S8 expressway from the Łask junction to the connection to the A-1 motorway in the region of Rzgów of the total length of 33.5 km were signed in the Łódź branch of GDDKiA. 32 bridges and 8 large animal crossings will be built under these contracts.
> 
> Section 6 (green color on the attached map) which is 9.2 km long and includes two road junctions and a dozen of engineering facilities, is part of one contract together with the seventh section (blue color on the attached map), which is 3.6 km long and will serve as a connection between the express road S-8, and the western Pabianice ring road, i.e. the express road S-14 (Dobroń junction).


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## Marbur66

rav00 said:


> If you go into opposing traffic you'll be looking for headlights, not lines on the road. ;]


Come to think of it, with the way people in Poland drive, I should be looking for headlights even when I'm going in the right direction. :nuts:


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## bigalowski

Marbur66 said:


> Come to think of it, with the way people in Poland drive, I should be looking for headlights even when I'm going in the right direction. :nuts:


Yes, these you'll need for those who drive on the middle-lane on a three-lane freeways. :bash:


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## Marbur66

bigalowski said:


> Yes, these you'll need for those who drive on the middle-lane on a three-lane freeways. :bash:


I had to drive on the unpaved shoulder of a 1X1 highway at 80km/h because some jackass decided to pass a truck and I would have hit him dead-on if I didn't swerve. This happened twice on my drive from Warszawa to Bialystok. I complain about the drivers here in Toronto, but I think I have it pretty well compared to the bullshit I've seen in other countries (Jamaica is the overwhelming winner of the "dangerous and inconsiderate driver contest").


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## Janek0

Fortunately undertaking is allowed. :lol:


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## bigalowski

Marbur66 said:


> I had to drive on the unpaved shoulder of a 1X1 highway at 80km/h because some jackass decided to pass a truck and I would have hit him dead-on if I didn't swerve. This happened twice on my drive from Warszawa to Bialystok. I complain about the drivers here in Toronto, but I think I have it pretty well compared to the bullshit I've seen in other countries (Jamaica is the overwhelming winner of the "dangerous and inconsiderate driver contest").


then Poland matches up to countries like Jamaica. A lot of drivers here suffer from road rage. In addition the quality of Polish roads and recent increase in number of cars lead to many fatalities.


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## mcarling

Marbur66 said:


> I had to drive on the unpaved shoulder of a 1X1 highway at 80km/h because some jackass decided to pass a truck and I would have hit him dead-on if I didn't swerve. This happened twice on my drive from Warszawa to Bialystok. I complain about the drivers here in Toronto, but I think I have it pretty well compared to the bullshit I've seen in other countries (Jamaica is the overwhelming winner of the "dangerous and inconsiderate driver contest").


Try driving in Pakistan. I spent several hours (as a passenger) trying to figure out whether driving was on the right side or the left side. Everyone drove right down the centre of the highway. Sometimes we swerved right for oncoming vehicles and sometimes we swerved left. It was always a game of chicken with every driver determined to make the other driver swerve first. Poland is quite civilized by comparison.

In the specific case of Warsaw to Bialystok, the risk will be reduced next year as two new sections of 2x2 expressway open.


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## ChrisZwolle

The number of passenger cars in Poland increased by 70% in the past 10 years. Mileage driven probably even more, yet fatalities dropped. Though Poland is still one of the worst countries in the European Union when it comes to road safety, the trend is set and will improve more in the coming years. Countries with high fatality rates are often countries which lack motorways on busy long-distance routes. Spain made phenomenal progress with traffic safety after almost all important long-distances routes were replaced by motorways. It quickly dropped from one of the worst to one of the best in Europe.


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## Marbur66

ChrisZwolle said:


> The number of passenger cars in Poland increased by 70% in the past 10 years. Mileage driven probably even more, yet fatalities dropped. Though Poland is still one of the worst countries in the European Union when it comes to road safety, the trend is set and will improve more in the coming years. Countries with high fatality rates are often countries which lack motorways on busy long-distance routes. Spain made phenomenal progress with traffic safety after almost all important long-distances routes were replaced by motorways. It quickly dropped from one of the worst to one of the best in Europe.


No doubt. From what I've seen here on SSC, Poland is going to have excellent, modern motorways which connect all the major cities in the not- too-distant future. :cheers:


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## ufonut

S69 Bielsko Biala - Zywiec by Marek Kocjan



marek_kocjan said:


> Aktualizacja zdjęć lotniczych budowy S69 Bielsko-Biała - Żywiec
> http://www.kocjan.pl/thumbnails-77.html
> 
> Przebieg S69 w kierunku Żywca za Węzłem Mikuszowice:
> 
> 
> Węzeł Buczkowice:
> 
> 
> Węzeł Łodygowice:
> 
> 
> Węzeł Żywiec:
> 
> 
> Przebieg S69 od Węzła Żywiec w kierunku Bielska-Białej:
> 
> 
> Estakada ES-09:
> 
> 
> Pocztówka wykonana nad Węzłem Żywiec:


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## Matz32Z

A4 traffic in Katowice











Tunel Katowice - DTS






A1


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## Blaskovitz

*A1 *














































more photos and cool informations + film in English: http://trojmiasto.gazeta.pl/trojmia...ktore_musisz_wiedziec_o_nowym_odcinku_A1.html


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## ChrisZwolle

I'm pleased to see that A1 has a space reservation for 2x3 lanes


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## Luki_SL

^^A1 will have sprace reservation for 2x3 lanes everywhere


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## ChrisZwolle

I noticed many recent S-projects also have space for 2x3 lanes.


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> I noticed many recent S-projects also have space for 2x3 lanes.


According to secret, never confirmed internal circular at GDDKiA (no kiddin'...), all TEN-T roads must be designed with 2x3 in the back of head. This was introduced some time after Poland joined the EU.

For example, designed bypass of Augustów, at section that will be someday S61, has also such one.


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## Road_UK

I was in Poland last week. I hadn't been there in two years, and expected a major improvement on its roads. It was a major dissapointment. I knew the A4/E40 was completed from the German border onwards, so I went that way. Another dissapointed. Yes, it's completed - but it isn't much of a road... I wasnh't very impressed. I know they can do better then that, as they did a good job on the A4 after Wrocklaw.


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## mcarling

Road_UK said:


> I was in Poland last week. I hadn't been there in two years, and expected a major improvement on its roads.


I'm not sure why you expected that. I drive across Poland once or twice a year. When convenient, I try to choose a route that includes either a stretch of road under construction (because I enjoy seeing the works) or a stretch that was completed since my last trip or both. However, I don't expect the overall trip to be dramatically different from one year to the next. It takes many years to build a road network. While I would be happy to see faster progress, I'm satisfied with the rate at which Poland is building new highways.


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## JackFrost

Road_UK said:


> - but it isn't much of a road...


how do you mean that? what is it then?


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## geogregor

Road_UK said:


> Oh dear God...


Dude, you seriously have problem with writing straight.

What is the problem?? Surface, alignments, signage?
If it is problem with the surface what is it? Cracks, are plates uneven, is concrete too rough?

I haven't driven it but you are seriously first person complaining so much.


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## mcarling

asahi said:


> It's concrete so it's a different feeling to drive on it comparing to asphalt roads, but it's nice and smooth. Maybe you're not used to such surface ...?


I suspect that this is probably the source of *Road_UK*'s dissatisfaction. Driving on asphalt is more pleasant when it's in good condition but in Poland concrete is needed because of the freezing. Asphalt over concrete is probably optimal, but rather expensive.


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## [email protected]

The A4 from the german border to Szarów, and soon Korczowa is, and will be of no lower standard than the motorways in the rest of the EU. The same can be said about all motorways being built in Poland in the past years. 

Anybody who tells me that the infrastructure in Poland hasn't greatly improved in the past 5-10 years shouldn't be taken seriously. Hey, the numerous pics in this thread prove it !


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## PLH

Sorry, Road UK, but that is just spamming around.

Sure enough, every new motorway in Austria 'fall under exellent new highways':yes:


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## Road_UK

PLH said:


> Sorry, Road UK, but that is just spamming around.
> 
> Sure enough, every new motorway in Austria 'fall under exellent new highways':yes:


They do, apart from the road signs. Like in most European countries, one can


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## Road_UK

Road_UK said:


> They do, apart from the road signs. Like in most European countries, one can


Sorry I cant work with this Android app, and I'm out using bad and good highways in Europe at the mo, you will have to wait until I get back.


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## Blaskovitz

Someone ask about interchange of A1 with DTŚ.


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## ChrisZwolle

A cloverleaf seems somewhat meager compared to the huge Gliwice-Sośnica interchange.


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## Bikes

How many existing km's of motorway does Poland have now, and how many is U/C currently? It should be close to 1600km/1300km.

Any news about when A1 will be completed until Gdansk? I drove there and back on the weekend, I saw 5 accidents, one was my own (police crashed into me). I've driven all around Ukraine, and I never saw so terrible driving habits like in Poland. People think 3 cars can fit on 2 lanes, and if you, as a driver going in your own lane will not move to the right (risking to hit any obstacle, car or even people there) then you will crash. It's insane.


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## Blaskovitz

Bikes said:


> How many existing km's of motorway does Poland have now, and how many is U/C currently? It should be close to 1600km/1300km.
> 
> Any news about when A1 will be completed until Gdansk? I drove there and back on the weekend, I saw 5 accidents, one was my own (police crashed into me). I've driven all around Ukraine, and I never saw so terrible driving habits like in Poland. People think 3 cars can fit on 2 lanes, and if you, as a driver going in your own lane will not move to the right (risking to hit any obstacle, car or even people there) then you will crash. It's insane.



A1 to Toruń will be open on friday evening.


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## ChrisZwolle

Good to see they're giving up on the single-carriageway expressways


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## Bikes

So 889km of motorways, 781km of expressways, and how many are under construction now?


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## toonczyk

U/C: 708km of motorways, 631km of 2x2 expressways, 13km of 1x2 expressways. Total of 1339km of 2x2+ roads are under construction right now.
In use: 894km of motorways, 520km of 2x2 expressways, 230km of 1x2 expressways. Total of 1414km of 2x2+ limited-access roads are in use right now.


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## Bikes

Thanks a lot toonczyk!


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## Luki_SL

ChrisZwolle said:


> Good to see they're giving up on the single-carriageway expressways


I hope they`ll give up with this kind of expressways It should be bulid 2x2 at once


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## Surel

Road_UK said:


> No, I'm talking about the new bit of A4, right after Goerlitz border, heading towards Wrocklaw. That wasn't there 2 years ago, and it looks like that road posted above, which is dissapointing for a neww road.


I don't know what you have it about actually. I drive few times a year the route NL CZ through PL (Wolvega to Ostrava). Last time two weeks ago. My route goes through Berlin A13 and A15 in DE then DK18/A18 in Poland, merging on A4 by Boleslaviec.

The DK18 direction from DE to PL till Boleslawiec is indeed in terrible state, poor, old and rumbly, dangerous for your car. The A18 and A4 on the other side is superb motorway. There is certainly no problem with the surface of this motorway. The only problem there is, is with the missing hard shoulder which is replaced by emergency safety bays. Therefore the speed is reduced to 110 km/h. However everyone drives around 130 there. After Wroclav I guess comes the hard shoulder. 

If all the motorways in Germany would be of this surface quality I would not complain.

btw. I noticed that foreigners often pronounce Wroclav as Wroklav thinking that c pronounces as k in e.g. club. Pity that no one uses the name Vratislav anymore .


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## ChrisZwolle

That's the nature of the Polish pronunciation, which is quite different from other European languages. I don't think many non-Poles can correctly pronounce places like Łódź, Rzeszów or crazy Świętochłowice.


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## Switek

I guess that in every language you can find expressions which only native users can pronounce correctly.


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## Jakub Warszauer

They have problems even with Warszawa...


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## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> That's the nature of the Polish pronunciation, which is quite different from other European languages. I don't think many non-Poles can correctly pronounce places like Łódź, Rzeszów or crazy Świętochłowice.


From other non slavic european languages .


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## Blaskovitz

ChrisZwolle said:


> That's the nature of the Polish pronunciation, which is quite different from other European languages. I don't think many non-Poles can correctly pronounce places like Łódź, Rzeszów or crazy Świętochłowice.


Try Brzęczkowice or Murzasichle


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## Bikes

U/C A1 on the way to Gdansk.


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## Switek

Blaskovitz said:


> Try Brzęczkowice or Murzasichle


Pfffff!!! 

Most Poles fails with that:

"No i cóż, że ze Szwecji?"


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## kmieciu

*History of the construction of expressways and highways in Poland*



Bikes said:


> How many existing km's of motorway does Poland have now, and how many is U/C currently? It should be close to 1600km/1300km.
> 
> Any news about when A1 will be completed until Gdansk? I drove there and back on the weekend, I saw 5 accidents, one was my own (police crashed into me). I've driven all around Ukraine, and I never saw so terrible driving habits like in Poland. People think 3 cars can fit on 2 lanes, and if you, as a driver going in your own lane will not move to the right (risking to hit any obstacle, car or even people there) then you will crash. It's insane.


Here you have great map in flash, History of the construction of expressways and highways in Poland.


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## Bikes

2013 starts to look good! I guess it's a very optimistic map, but still. Also why is this that Warsaw has the worst motorway connection with other cities? Gdansk, Poznan, Krakow, Lodz are all better.


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## ChrisZwolle

Will they actually keep the border crossing near Świecko?



Sławek;68647279 said:


> Nie wiem czy to już było - granica autostrad w Świecku - projekt:


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## kmieciu

ChrisZwolle said:


> Will they actually keep the border crossing near Świecko?


There is Border Guard headquarter and in case of temporary border control they need place to control the drivers.

Documentation is prepared for the new A2 course, new variant runs on the south side of the Border Guard buildings. It begins with bridge dilatation and ends at the newly rebuilt concrete section.

__________________________________________________________________________

*S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów*

*Section I*


kmieciu said:


> Źródło


*
Section II*


kmieciu said:


> Źródło


*Section III*


kmieciu said:


> Źródło





kmieciu said:


> Źródło


_________________________________________________________________________
*S3 Gorzów - Międzyrzecz Section I + III*



kmieciu said:


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*S3 Gorzów - Międzyrzecz Section II*



kmieciu said:


> *S3 Gorzów - Międzyrzecz Odcinek II
> *
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## CNGL

ChrisZwolle said:


> That's the nature of the Polish pronunciation, which is quite different from other European languages. I don't think many non-Poles can correctly pronounce places like Łódź, Rzeszów or crazy Świętochłowice.


I agree. I was surprised the first time I heard Łódź. If written as pronounced, in English Łódź would be "Wudz" or something like that.


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## kooba

CNGL said:


> I agree. I was surprised the first time I heard Łódź. If written as pronounced, in English Łódź would be "Wudz" or something like that.


More-less, but "ź" sound is completely different than "z", and I don't think there is anything similar in English. This way Wrocław is something like *Vrozwav*


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## piotr71

toonczyk said:


> It is, the photo is of A4. Well, i*f Chris says there are some problems then there probably are,* but I haven't heard anything about it. The section between the border and Krzyżowa is new and I consider it a very high quality road, unlike the section from Krzyżowa to Wrocław (which is in very poor shape).


There are some cracks and potholes on former A18 bit between Krzyżowa and Krzywa. Only apparent problem with new stretch of A4 is partly wiped off white line separating hard shoulder. 



Road_UK said:


> A4 AFTER Wrocklaw, A38 in Germany, most French tollroads, new A4 between Turin and Milan, recent refurbished roads in the Netherlands, large parts of the newly refurbished A3 in Germany (..)


Apart from the Italian one I know all of these motorways very well, driving on many times a year (A38 - 3 weeks ago) must say You are talking rubbish or suspension of your vehicle (a van?) needs a serious attention. All new German motorways, built with concrete, represent the same level of quality. No less, no more.


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## Don Vito KurDeBalanz

Blaskovitz said:


> Try Brzęczkowice or Murzasichle


Yeah, but there are not many Poles who wouldn't have slight difficulties to pronounce: Chrząszczrzeboszyce powiat Łękołody


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## revolta

Blaskovitz said:


> Try Brzęczkowice or Murzasichle


Brzyskorzystewko :nuts:


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## mdhookey

I noticed on the most recent map that the DSU was completed for the northern part of S11 near Koszalin, but I guess there won't be any movement on it for a while, right? Fairly low priority?


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## Luki_SL

From : http://gddkia.gov.pl/article/9968/t...bartow-has-been-submitted-by-dragados-company


> The most advantageous bid for the construction of S17 between the nodes Dąbrowica and Lubartów has been submitted by Dragados company.
> 
> Lublin Division of the General Directorate For National Roads and Motorways executing the judgement of the National Appeal Chamber as of 21st September current year, has invalidated the choice of the most advantageous bid for the construction of section of the expressway S17 between the nodes Dąbrowica and Lubartów (task no. 3). After making a second evaluation of the submitted bids a Spanish company Dragados has been chosen.
> 
> Let us remind here that in the second stage of the tender proceedings 13 bids have been received. The Spanish company has proposed the lowest price, but the contents of the bid has not corresponded to the Terms of Reference, which has been the cause for its rejection. Dragados has made an appeal to the National Appeal Chamber and as a result the first choice of the most advantageous bid had to be invalidated.
> 
> 
> 
> The Spanish company has valued the construction of a two-road expressway with three lanes between the nodes Dąbrowica (without a node) and Lubartów (along with a node) of the length 10.2 km at 474 801 609.99 PLN. Within the scope of the investment a connection will be built along the national road no. 19 leading from the Lubartów node to the administrative boundaries of Lublin, a network of access roads of the total length of 27.3 km, acoustic baffles of the length 13.6 km, seventeen engineering structures (14 viaducts and three footbridges) as well as eight passages for small and medium animals (independent and combined with the engineering structures or culverts). The contractor will have 24 months realisation of the investment from the date of signing the contract.


From: http://gddkia.gov.pl/article/9968/t...bartow-has-been-submitted-by-dragados-company



> The most advantageous bid for the construction of S17 between the nodes Dąbrowica and Lubartów has been submitted by Dragados company.
> 
> Lublin Division of the General Directorate For National Roads and Motorways executing the judgement of the National Appeal Chamber as of 21st September current year, has invalidated the choice of the most advantageous bid for the construction of section of the expressway S17 between the nodes Dąbrowica and Lubartów (task no. 3). After making a second evaluation of the submitted bids a Spanish company Dragados has been chosen.
> 
> Let us remind here that in the second stage of the tender proceedings 13 bids have been received. The Spanish company has proposed the lowest price, but the contents of the bid has not corresponded to the Terms of Reference, which has been the cause for its rejection. Dragados has made an appeal to the National Appeal Chamber and as a result the first choice of the most advantageous bid had to be invalidated.
> 
> 
> 
> The Spanish company has valued the construction of a two-road expressway with three lanes between the nodes Dąbrowica (without a node) and Lubartów (along with a node) of the length 10.2 km at 474 801 609.99 PLN. Within the scope of the investment a connection will be built along the national road no. 19 leading from the Lubartów node to the administrative boundaries of Lublin, a network of access roads of the total length of 27.3 km, acoustic baffles of the length 13.6 km, seventeen engineering structures (14 viaducts and three footbridges) as well as eight passages for small and medium animals (independent and combined with the engineering structures or culverts). The contractor will have 24 months realisation of the investment from the date of signing the contract.


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## mcarling

^^
I thought it was the S19 rather than the S17 which goes through Lubartów.


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## ChrisZwolle

They all do  S12 + S17 + S19


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## Chris80678

Blaskovitz said:


> Try Brzęczkowice or Murzasichle


That's the nature of the Polish pronunciation, which is quite different from other European languages. I don't think many non-Poles can correctly pronounce places like Łódź, Rzeszów or crazy Świętochłowice.

I can accurately pronounce places like Łódź, Rzeszów or Świętochłowice.
But then I am half Polish and have been to Poland many times where my clear pronounciation is praised by locals and my relatives alike


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## Piekarz

mcarling said:


> ^^
> I thought it was the S19 rather than the S17 which goes through Lubartów.


In fact the S17 does not go through Lubartów, but we have the junction (node) named "Lubartów" on Lublin by-pass, which is far from Lubartów (city). I hope the name of node will be changed to Lublin-North.


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## mcarling

Piekarz said:


> In fact the S17 does not go through Lubartów, but we have the junction (node) named "Lubartów" on Lublin by-pass, which is far from Lubartów (city). I hope the name of node will be changed to Lublin-North.


Ah! Now I understand. Thank you for the explanation. :cheers:


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## ufonut

mdhookey said:


> I noticed on the most recent map that the DSU was completed for the northern part of S11 near Koszalin, but I guess there won't be any movement on it for a while, right? Fairly low priority?


Pretty much correct. DSU is very important and if I am not mistaken it expires in 4 years so there will be movement before its expiration for sure. Key thing to remember is EU's budget for infrastructure for 2013-2020. If it meets or exceeds what we got last time there should be funds allocated for this particular expressway.


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## [email protected]

kmieciu said:


> Here you have great map in flash, History of the construction of expressways and highways in Poland.


This map in flash shows a huge slowdown in motorway construction after 2012. 2012 will definitely be the year in which the most new motorways be opened however, things for 2012/2013/2014/2015 are looking bad (construction wise) :bash:

They say that the next portion of EU Grants Poland will get from the central EU budget (for the years 2014-2020) will mostly be injected into railway infrastructure, but I hope that they don't forget about the importance of roads and motorways.

Perhaps new tenders will be announced and this map will be more 'red' for the years after 2012.


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## mcarling

ufonut said:


> Pretty much correct. DSU is very important and if I am not mistaken it expires in 4 years so there will be movement before its expiration for sure.


Doesn't that just mean that construction needs to begin before the expiration of the DSU? In other words, once construction has begun, expiration of the DSU doesn't matter, right?



ufonut said:


> Key thing to remember is EU's budget for infrastructure for 2013-2020. If it meets or exceeds what we got last time there should be funds allocated for this particular expressway.


So far, there is no sign of any sort of budgetary discipline at the EU, despite varying levels of austerity in the budgets of some member states.


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## ufonut

A2 by Rusonaldo 


Rusonaldo said:


> *@ polkagris*
> 
> Ruch będzie puszczony1 grudnia a nie 1 listopada więc nie ma szans na przejechanie się po A2 nawet po poboczu.
> 
> Kilka szybkich strzałów
> 
> Węzeł Trzciel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SPO Trzciel


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## european_driver

Media says, that Warsaw become one of most attractive city to foreign investors. I think, that fact, that in next year this city will has complete motorway connection (via A2) to western Europe and S2, S8 bypass has impact to it. Additionally factors are resistance Poland to financial crisis, building second line of metro and Euro 2012 organization.


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## Janek0

[email protected] said:


> This map in flash shows a huge slowdown in motorway construction after 2012. 2012 will definitely be the year in which the most new motorways be opened however, things for 2012/2013/2014/2015 are looking bad (construction wise) :bash:


It includes only already contracted sections, that's why it looks so bad.


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## european_driver

^^ Of course, this map contains only contracted sections, but polish government don't plans building roads after 2012 to large scale such as building now. Despide I hope, that this map will expand for some additionally sections under construction


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## ChrisZwolle

Almost no country in Europe has ever achieved the pace of construction like in Poland these years. Only Germany managed to build 3.000 kilometers in 4 years time before World War II.


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## kooba

Oh it will expand. For example S8 Syców-Łódź (more than 100km) will be build for sure, but not contracted yet, so not in a map.


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## CrazySerb

I don't know, while the present pace of construction is certainly worthy of praise, I'm not that impressed by the overall situation motorway-wise in Poland, even as it will look like by 2015, especially if we compare it to the countries of former Yugoslavia, which have been through civil wars, economic sanctions and various other sorts of internal strife.

Current motorway map of ex-Yugoslavia (white - built, red - U/C; yellow - planned motorways)
Already about ~3,000km of motorways, and by 2015, its likely another 1,000km will be built.


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## toonczyk

CrazySerb said:


> I don't know, while the present pace of construction is certainly worthy of praise, I'm not that impressed by the overall situation motorway-wise in Poland, even as it will look like by 2015, especially if we compare it to the countries of former Yugoslavia, which have been through civil wars, economic sanctions and various other sorts of internal strife.


I think we all agree that we have wasted a lot of time after 1989 with very little happening in terms of new infrastructure (that includes railways as well). Those mistakes are not easy to recover from, but in the last couple of years we've made a huge progress. By the end of 2015 we should have 3100-3300km of motorways and dual-carriageway expressways and I think that's not bad at all, it was one fourth of that just five years ago.


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## macieii

All that bullshitting about the budgetary prospective... It's just about the politics. The government does not know what will happen and does not promise anything. It's much easier to announce "wow, we have funds and we can build extra 1250 km of roads", than to say "oops, sorry, we planned 5000 km and can only build 50".


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## kooba

CrazySerb said:


> I don't know, while the present pace of construction is certainly worthy of praise, I'm not that impressed by the overall situation motorway-wise in Poland, even as it will look like by 2015, especially if we compare it to the countries of former Yugoslavia, which have been through civil wars, economic sanctions and various other sorts of internal strife.


Tough Words, but true. We screw badly with motorways after fall of communism. But on the other hand, Yugoslavia will gonna have more than 3000 km in 2015, we will too. Area of former Yugoslavia was about 250 000km, Poland 310 000km. So it's comparable. And since we start some serious work after 2005, i'm think it's quite nice.

Too bad there are no indications that this, very good, pace will last.


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## ed110220

kooba said:


> Tough Words, but true. We screw badly with motorways after fall of communism. But on the other hand, Yugoslavia will gonna have more than 3000 km in 2015, we will too. Area of former Yugoslavia was about 250 000km, Poland 310 000km. So it's comparable. And since we start some serious work after 2005, i'm think it's quite nice.
> 
> Too bad there are no indications that this, very good, pace will last.


Wasn't Poland in a worse shape than Yugoslavia though (before the wars there)? Yugoslavia was relatively prosperous by Eastern European standards and I think they built quite a few motorways even in socialist times.


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## lukaszek89

^^*The Brotherhood and Unity Highway *stretched *over 1,180 km* (730 mi) across former Yugoslavia, from the Austrian border at Rateče near Kranjska Gora in the northwest via Ljubljana, Zagreb, Belgrade and Skopje to Gevgelija on the Greek border in the southeast. It was coloquially named autoput or autocesta (generic Serbo-Croatian expressions for "highway", "motorway"), as it was the one and only modern highway in the country, connecting four constituent states. This use is gradually fading out after the successor states have built further motorways.

...The situation slightly improved after some parts were brought up to modern motorway standards (two lanes for each direction plus an emergency lane) on sections Kranj-Ljubljana (20 km), Zagreb-Slavonski Brod-Županja (259 km) and Sremska Mitrovica-Belgrade-Niš (277 km) from 1977 on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brotherhood_and_Unity_Highway

and others like Zagreb-Rijeka for example:

1970's


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## mcarling

ed110220 said:


> Wasn't Poland in a worse shape than Yugoslavia though (before the wars there)?


Yes, that is very true. In 1988, Yugoslavia was in much better economic condition than Poland, but I think the wars probably reversed that by 1995, so I don't think we can take much out of a comparison with Yugoslavia. I do agree with the opinion that the early post-occupation Polish governments squandered their opportunities. Poland may now have the healthiest political situation in the EU.


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## Andrzej_Kubica

kooba said:


> Area of former Yugoslavia was about 250 000km, Poland 310 000km. So it's comparable.


Mate, look at the terrain characteristics in ex-Yugoslavia. I think, Croatia and Slovenia did amazing job.


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## Switek

Of course Croatia has made excellent job as it comes to its highway network but any comparisons can't be taken out of the economical context. For Croatia investing in modern highways was a crucial to benefit from tourism what is the most important branch of Croatian economy. As it comes for Poland there was completely another situation. We had a quite developed network of roads which were sufficient till 2000 year. 

The number of registered passenger cars in Poland:

1990 - 5.261.000
2000 - 9.991.000
2010 -17.240.000

The total number of all registered vehicles in Poland for 2010 is more than 21. millions. It's still less than in Western EU countries according to comparable values (number of inhabitants, total length of roads etc.).


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## ChrisZwolle

Andrzej_Kubica said:


> Mate, look at the terrain characteristics in ex-Yugoslavia. I think, Croatia and Slovenia did amazing job.


Yugoslavia built almost nothing in mountainous areas. All mountainous motorways in Slovenia weren't built until the 1990's and early 2000's in Croatia. Montenegro, southwestern Serbia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, all places without a motorway network. Only BIH built some short motorways recently but it's by far not a network. 




Switek said:


> The total number of all registered vehicles in Poland for 2010 is more than 21. millions. It's still less than in Western EU countries according to comparable values (number of inhabitants, total length of roads etc.).


The per capita car ownership in Poland is currently already comparable to the Netherlands and has already exceeded the United Kingdom, Ireland and Denmark. If current trends continue Poland will also pass Sweden, Lithuania, Spain and Belgium in terms of car ownership within a few years.


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## Andrzej_Kubica

Switek, you're right, but you also have to admit that in the 90's our goverment should expect increasing number of registered vechicles and overall traffic and do something to prepare our country to that. Yes, tourism needs good roads, but the other types of economy, especially expansive economy, need it too.

PS. My English sucks, so, sorry if I made any mistakes.


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## jwojcie

Oh, come on, don't go that path... Success of others don't prohibit us from celebrating our evident successess in next couple of months. I believe ex-Yugoslavia motorways appreciation thread is somewhere else


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## ChrisZwolle

jwojcie said:


> Oh, come on, don't go that path... Success of others don't prohibit us from celebrating our evident successess in next couple of months.


Starting tomorrow! :banana:


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## Andrzej_Kubica

Agree. In last few years we made a great progress and I'm very happy of that. I'm talking about 90's and early 00's and I'm just trying to be objective, that's all. Cheers!


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## Switek

ChrisZwolle said:


> The per capita car ownership in Poland is currently already comparable to the Netherlands and has already exceeded the United Kingdom, Ireland and Denmark. If current trends continue Poland will also pass Sweden, Lithuania, Spain and Belgium in terms of car ownership within a few years.


 True. 



Andrzej_Kubica said:


> Switek, you're right, but you also have to admit that in the 90's our goverment should expect increasing number of registered vechicles and overall traffic and do something to prepare our country to that. Yes, tourism needs good roads, but the other types of economy, especially expansive economy, need it too.


The main priorities for Poland were to gain political, economic and social stabilization in 1990's. In other words we had our own set of challenges. 



jwojcie said:


> Oh, come on, don't go that path... Success of others don't prohibit us from celebrating our evident successess in next couple of months. I believe ex-Yugoslavia motorways appreciation thread is somewhere else


 You're absolutely right. There's a Polish saying which fits to this "Better late than never". I'm really proud of the enormous progress done by Poland since 2007. :banana:


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## ja.centy

I bet that, if you now asked Poland's previous PMs or Ministers of Transport/Infrastructure about passivity with the infrastructure projects after 1990, they would say it all had been well considered, as they were anticipating higher inflow of the EU funds after Poland's accession to the club. :lol:

Leaving jokes apart, I'm also delighted to see huge progress being made in the PL's road infrastructure development.

It shall be noted though that such progress is taking place when the Head of GDDKiA (General Directorate for National Roads & Highways) is a person, who in his previous career hadn't been directly related to construction/transport matters (Mr Lech Witecki). But he's probably a good manager and that's what counts.


----------



## DocentX

*A1 motorway: Grudziądz - Toruń* - tomorrow will be officially opened - short video about the motorway :

http://trojmiasto.gazeta.pl/trojmiasto/10,88290,10433101,Nowy_odcinek_autostrady_A1.html

btw :

Grudziądz :










Toruń :


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## PLH

*A1 / D1 motorway
PL/CZ border*


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## Nowax

A4 Debica - Rzeszow photos http://www.nowiny24.pl/apps/pbcs.dll...ON00/403127581


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## mcarling

Wow! A1/D1 is starting to look really good at the border. Maybe they can open it 1+1 before the New Year?


----------



## toonczyk

^^ Impossible. The whole section is waiting for one problematic bridge (famous MA532), which is nowhere near completion. This is how it looked like a week ago (photo by RadoslawJ, more here):









It's going to be a small miracle if they finish it in time.


----------



## mcarling

toonczyk said:


> ^^ Impossible. The whole section is waiting for one problematic bridge (famous MA532), which is nowhere near completion. This is how it looked like a week ago (photo by RadoslawJ ....
> 
> It's going to be a small miracle if they finish it in time.


That's a serious project management failure. I don't see how they can open the road before next summer.


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## ChrisZwolle

Where and what does that viaduct cross?


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## Luki_SL

^^This viadukt is a part of Mszana Interchange (A1/933). You can find visualization of this object here: http://www.alpine.pl/autostrada-a1-...roblemy-projektowe/wizualizacje-mostu-ma-532/

Location : http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Mszan...szana,+wodzisławski,+śląskie,+Polska&t=h&z=15


----------



## ja.centy

toonczyk said:


> ^^ Impossible. The whole section is waiting for one problematic bridge (famous MA532), which is nowhere near completion. (...)





mcarling said:


> That's a serious project management failure. I don't see how they can open the road before next summer.


Weren't the delays with work progress on this viaduct the main reason why Alpine Bau were kicked out from the project in 2009 or '10?


----------



## mcarling

Luki_SL said:


> This viadukt is a part of Mszana Interchange (A1/933).


It looks like the A1 could perhaps be opened from Świerklany to the 933, but it also looks like that would do very little to alleviate the current bottleneck.


----------



## MAG

ChrisZwolle said:


> Where and what does that viaduct cross?


The whole viaduct ensemble crosses a small local brook but the main reason for the viaduct is to keep road inclination within spec. The terrain near Mszana has significant topography due to natural formation and due to sustained subsidence because of mining. I always wondered why anyone would be crazy enough to build a motorway right here when there are other, potentially easier, road alignments in the vicinity.

The viaduct is quite an engineering challenge because of its unusual and aggressive design. I won't digress into details, suffice it to say that its design and construction was a main bone of contention between Alpine & co and GDDKiA. MA532 is also a bit of a showpiece - see the visualisations - and I hope that someone has thought of suitable decorative lighting to top it all off. 





mccarling said:


> It looks like the A1 could perhaps be opened from Świerklany to the 933 ...


Most unlikely. Access to DW933 is only via MA532, as far as I know (and admittedly I don't know much).


--------------------

On a different note, the pictures of A2 look ravishing. Can't wait to give this stretch of A2 a spin at Vmax+10. 


.


----------



## geogregor

MAG said:


> The whole viaduct ensemble crosses a small local brook but the main reason for the viaduct is to keep road inclination within spec. The terrain near Mszana has significant topography due to natural formation and due to sustained subsidence because of mining. I always wondered why anyone would be crazy enough to build a motorway right here when there are other, potentially easier, road alignments in the vicinity.
> 
> The viaduct is quite an engineering challenge because of its unusual and aggressive design. I won't digress into details, suffice it to say that its design and construction was a main bone of contention between Alpine & co and GDDKiA. MA532 is also a bit of a showpiece - see the visualisations - and I hope that someone has thought of suitable decorative lighting to top it all off.


In my opinion designing such complicated and expensive viaduct was a big mistake. Poland has to build a lot of roads just to connect its major cities. We should use, as simple as possible standardized design for most of the bridges, viaducts and other structures. I don't care how fancy bridge on motorway looks like as long as it does the job. 
Once we have major network ready we can have some fun with "signature" projects like the sorry viaduct in Mszana.


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## DammianBB

geogregor said:


> In my opinion designing such complicated and expensive viaduct was a big mistake. Poland has to build a lot of roads just to connect its major cities. We should use, as simple as possible standardized design for most of the bridges, viaducts and other structures. I don't care how fancy bridge on motorway looks like as long as it does the job.
> Once we have major network ready we can have some fun with "signature" projects like the sorry viaduct in Mszana.


Agree. We are going to have such beautiful building objects in such flat country.


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## Luki_SL

From : http://gddkia.gov.pl/article/9976/a...al-directorate-for-national-roads-and-morways


> Award “Crystal of Public Tender” (“Kryształ Przetargów Publicznych”) granted to General Directorate for National Roads and Morways
> 
> General Directorate for National Roads and Motorways has received the award “Crystal of Public Tender 2011” for the best ordering party in the category “Investment influencing the improvement in quality of life of the citizens” for the execution of construction works related to the construction of Gołdap ring road along the national road no. 65.
> 
> Crystals of Public Tender are awards, which aim is promotion of popularisation of using the best practices and principles in the field of public procurement. These awards are received by the ordering parties, who conduct their proceedings in a clear manner not violating the rules of fair competition, leading to choice of the most advantageous bid. The award committee consist of specialists, being the greatest authorities in the field of public procurement in Poland - persons having a broad knowledge and wide experience.
> 
> 
> 
> Monthly magazine "Przetargi Publiczne" (Public Procurement Magazine) is the promoter of CRYSTALS OF PUBLIC TENDER.


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## ChrisZwolle

geogregor said:


> In my opinion designing such complicated and expensive viaduct was a big mistake. Poland has to build a lot of roads just to connect its major cities. We should use, as simple as possible standardized design for most of the bridges, viaducts and other structures. I don't care how fancy bridge on motorway looks like as long as it does the job.
> Once we have major network ready we can have some fun with "signature" projects like the sorry viaduct in Mszana.


On the other hand this does separate Poland from southeast Europe, and I mean that in a positive way. Polish motorways and new bridges are much more aesthetic than elsewhere, especially compared to Romania and Bulgaria. As long as it doesn't cause significant additional cost or lengthy construction times I don't mind, in fact I would applaud it.


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## ChrisZwolle

I never realized, but there is more recent imagery of Warszawa under the "historical imagery" layer in Google Earth. The S2 route through southwest Warszawa is much better visible that way:


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## ufonut

A1 by Rusonaldo cont.



Rusonaldo said:


> b)





Rusonaldo said:


> c)





Rusonaldo said:


> d)


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## ufonut

A1 by Rusonaldo cont..



Rusonaldo said:


> e)





Rusonaldo said:


> f)





Rusonaldo said:


> g)
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> 
> Mam nadzieję że nie za dużo tego. Później będzie film. Oznakowania na końcu odcinka nie będę komentował bo brak słów (przed węzłem Czerniewice)


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## humpback

ufonut said:


> A1 by Rusonaldo cont..


Jaysus, you didn't have more pics, did you? :tongue2:


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## ufonut

S69 Bielsko Biala - Zywiec by Marek Kocjan



marek_kocjan said:


> Aktualizacja zdjęć lotniczych - http://www.kocjan.pl/thumbnails-68.html
> 
> Węzeł "Bielsko-Biała Mikuszowice" - po lewej ul. Bystrzańska (DW942), po prawej ul. Żywiecka (DK52/DK69):
> 
> 
> Węzeł "Bielsko-Biała Mikuszowice" - łącznice z ul. Żywiecką (DK52/DK69):
> 
> 
> Lipnik - wiadukt WS5, wiadukt w ciągu ul. Langiewicza, kładka technologiczna, Pływalnia Aqua:
> 
> 
> Węzeł "Bielsko-Biała Lipnik" (Krakowska):
> 
> 
> Wiadukt WS5 nad linią kolejową i potokiem Krzywa:
> 
> 
> Przyszły Węzeł "Bielsko-Biała Krzemionki" (Suchy Potok), ul. Witosa, ul. Wyzwolenia, kładka technologiczna:
> 
> 
> Węzeł "Bielsko-Biała Rosta":
> 
> 
> 
> Zdjęcia z 3.10.2011.
> 
> Oficjalna informacja o zmianie nazw węzłów:
> węzeł "Komorowice" -> węzeł "Bielsko-Biała Komorowice"
> węzeł "Rosta" -> węzeł "Bielsko-Biała Rosta"
> węzeł "Hałcnów" -> węzeł "Bielsko-Biała Krzemionki"
> węzeł "Krakowska" -> węzeł "Bielsko-Biała Lipnik"
> węzeł "Mikuszowice" -> węzeł "Bielsko-Biała Mikuszowice"
> (po lewej nazwy z dokumentacji formalno-prawnej, po prawej uzgodnione z UM BB i obowiązujące w organizacji ruchu)


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## mcarling

geogregor said:


> I can see point for some of those spectaculars structures if there are somewhere in cities. But junction in the countryside?
> We are too poor country for that. And in dear need for thousand of km of new roads. Why waste money for fancy projects?


You make a good point. While I very much appreciate Poland's beautiful bridges, I would tolerate ugly bridges to have more motorways and expressways. Of course, decades from now, we'll have the beautiful bridges and the motorways and expressways will form an excellent road network.


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## Rusonaldo

2 films from new motorways A1 from Toruń to Grudziądz


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## Bikes

Does it make sense now to go through Torun if I wanted to go to Gdansk from Warsaw? (other than less chance that another Polish driver will crash into me)


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## ChrisZwolle

I doubt it. It's 200 kilometers from Warszawa before you reach the A1 at Lubicz. For that same distance, you would be between Olsztynek and Ostróda on DK7. On the other hand, DK10 may be less busy than DK7 and prove a more comfortable ride together with A1.


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## jeremiash

The total distance between Warsaw and Gdańsk through DK 7 is 345 km compared to 350 when going through DK 10 and A1. I'd go through Toruń anytime, with all the building going on on DK7.


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## Dantiscum

It's only a 13 km difference (355 km through A1-DK10 and 342 km through DK7), so considering you're driving mostly through a highway I'd choose the road through Toruń.


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## toonczyk

Even before the section of A1 between Toruń and Grudziądz was opened, it was quicker and safer to avoid DK7 and go through DK10 and then to Grudziądz via Golub-Dobrzyń. Now DK10 (which is in very good condition, although passes through many towns and villages) + A1 is by far the best option.



ChrisZwolle said:


> I doubt it. It's 200 kilometers from Warszawa before you reach the A1 at Lubicz. For that same distance, you would be between Olsztynek and Ostróda on DK7. On the other hand, DK10 may be less busy than DK7 and prove a more comfortable ride together with A1.


That's actually right - at the time you reach Toruń you'd be somewhere around Olsztynek on DK7. But that's still some 2,5-3 hours from reaching S6. From Toruń it's only about 80 minutes away. So my guess is right now driving through Toruń should save you at least one hour.


----------



## McKowski

Rusonaldo said:


> 2 films from new motorways A1 from Toruń to Grudziądz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really don`t have a clue... what kind of crash barriers are these?
> Never seen this kind of barriers before.


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## toonczyk

McKowski said:


> I really don`t have a clue... what kind of crash barriers are these?
> Never seen this kind of barriers before.


Cable barriers, very safe for cars and trucks, deadly for motorcyclists. Actually AFAIK right now they are considered to be the second best option after concrete barriers. They are cheaper (and more aesthetic) than concrete, but require much wider central reservation. Divider on A1 actually isn't all that wide, so those must be very high tension cables.


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## Bikes

toonczyk said:


> So my guess is right now driving through Toruń should save you at least one hour.


Thanks a lot for the answers, this sounds great!


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## ChrisZwolle

S74 in Kielce is nearing completion. The noise barriers look like the Berlin Wall though.



cm_kielce said:


> Odcinek miejski
> 
> widok w kier. wschodnim
> 
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> 
> dziura w rondzie (w zasadzie to w wyspie centralnej)
> 
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> widok z al. Solidarności na wschód
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> w labiryncie ekranów...
> 
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> widok na zachód
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> wciąż nie gotowa droga serwisowa na pograniczu Kielc i Domaszowic
> 
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> widok z ul. Warszawskiej na wschód
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> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## mcarling

There are way too many photos on this page. :bash:


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

True. Let's move to another page.


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## Kuras77

Apparently we have too many new road projects in Poland...


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## ChrisZwolle

Does anyone know why S74 is constructed into Kielce? Continuing it westward to S7 or even Piotrków Trybunalski will prove difficult. A northern alignment bypassing Kielce would've been better for through traffic.


----------



## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> Does anyone know why S74 is constructed into Kielce? Continuing it westward to S7 or even Piotrków Trybunalski will prove difficult. A northern alignment bypassing Kielce would've been better for through traffic.


I've wondered the same thing. Either around to the north or around to the south seems more logical.


----------



## RipleyLV

toonczyk said:


> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=57782627&postcount=3


Seen that one. I was expecting last week's edition.


----------



## toonczyk

Well, then keep looking at that post, I'm sure the map will be updated any day now


----------



## ja.centy

mcarling said:


> No, I believe it's near Katowice.


Well, I don't think so. The OP's text in the initial post reads:


ufonut said:


> A2 Strykow-Konotopa by trzyfx


See a basic map shown on the Polish website of that investment project: http://www.a2strykow-konotopa.pl.



mcarling said:


> Coal-fired power plants produce a lot more pollution that do cars manufactured in this century. I realize that Poland has significant numbers of cars built in the 1990s, but the really horrible (in terms of pollution) cars produced in the Soviet bloc are nearly all off the road now.


Sorry? Unfortunately I don't see a connection with my previous comment.


----------



## mcarling

ja.centy said:


> Well, I don't think so. The OP's text in the initial post reads:
> 
> 
> See a basic map shown on the Polish website of that investment project: http://www.a2strykow-konotopa.pl.


No, this is the one I quoted.


ufonut said:


> Massive post by Bula8 - A1 Pyrzowice-Gorzyczki photos from above:
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=542716&page=658


----------



## ja.centy

mcarling said:


> ufonut said:
> 
> 
> 
> Massive post by Bula8 - A1 Pyrzowice-Gorzyczki photos from above
> 
> 
> 
> No, this is the one I quoted.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, sorry about the confusion...

Nevertheless, I hope the provided stats may be used to get a more comprehensive/balanced picture on the air pollution in PL (emmissions decrease vs. ongoing GDP growth and motor cars increase).


----------



## dawid_silesia

Gliwice ring A1 Knurów - *Sośnica* - DK88 Maciejów - A4 Kleszczów - *Sośnica* - Wspólna


----------



## kmieciu

*DE Frankfurt nad Odrą - Rzepin PL _ A12 - A2*

DE Frankfurt nad Odrą - Rzepin PL _ A12 - A2. map


----------



## Luki_SL

[S69] Bielsko-Biała - Żywiec by Stalone: 



Stalone said:


> Wczoraj udało mi się przejechać cały odcinek od Rosta do Bystrzańskiej.
> 
> Jedyny odcinek bez ekranów
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> W lewo dwa pasy na Szczyrk - powinno być bez korków
> 
> Powrót ze Szczyrku w prawo na obwodnicę jeden pas, prosto dwa pasy do centrum. Wygeneruje to ruch w stronę centrum bo nikt nie będzie stał w korku na prawym pasie.
> 
> diodowe lampy ostrzegawcze(już migają) z niezależnym zasilaniem. Prowizorka, bo przewody wiszą luźno


----------



## Blaskovitz

Newest map.


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## DammianBB

Excellent LUKI, we are waiting patiently for the opening next saturday!


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## Sienioslaw

Good info, probably fees for motorways will be cut by 50% on goverment highways, today it's 0.20 PLN/km, will be 0.10PLN/km and 0.05PLN/km for motorbikes :banana:


----------



## Blaskovitz

Sienioslaw said:


> Good info, probably fees for motorways will be cut by 50% on goverment highways, today it's 0.20 PLN/km, will be 0.10PLN/km and 0.05PLN/km for motorbikes :banana:


but only on non-private motorways.


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## Strzala

A4 highway Gliwice - Katowice:















http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZRtwI3GEkE


*Three lane roadway from 3:02*


----------



## Blizzy

This may be a stupid question, but I'm not really following this thread. Looking at the latest map - is Grudziądz-Toruń open? When did that happen?


----------



## mcarling

Blizzy said:


> This may be a stupid question, but I'm not really following this thread. Looking at the latest map - is Grudziądz-Toruń open? When did that happen?


Yes, Grudziądz-Toruń opened roughly about a week or so ago. If you look back through this thread, you probably should be able to find the exact date.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Friday October 14th.


----------



## Blaskovitz

Strzala said:


> A4 highway Gliwice - Katowice:




Nice map, DTŚ is marked as expressway.


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## Strzala

^^Map has been corrected.There was a mistake near Gliwice. Video starts at A4-DW408 crossroad.


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## Luki_SL

Blaskovitz said:


> Nice map, DTŚ is marked as expressway.


In other countries DTŚ (902) could heve been named expressway


Offical information about A1 Grudziadz-Torun: http://gddkia.gov.pl/article/9986/m...pened-for-traffic-it-is-going-to-be-continued



> *Motorway A1 Grudziądz – Toruń opened for traffic. It is going to be continued.*
> 
> Motorway A1 on the section Grudziądz – Toruń (62 km) was put into traffic on Friday 14 October 2011. Its construction started in August 2008 and lasted for 27 months. With the moment of its opening the drivers will have 152 km of a motorway at their disposal and will be able to overcome the route from Toruń to Gdańsk in only 70 minutes.
> 
> Motorway A1 is one of the most important communication routes of Poland and the continent. It will join seaports of the Treble City with Upper Silesia and the southern part of Europe. The section between Nowe Marzy and Czerniewice will become an alternative for the crowded and leading through various localities national road no. 1. It will have a strategic influence on the economic development of the region, creating advantageous conditions for new investments. It will also influence the decrease of number of road accidents in the region. From the statistical data of the police in Pomeranian voivodeship it turns out that thanks to the opening of the first, northern section of the motorway the number of road accidents on the national road no. 1, parallel to A1, decreased by over 20%.
> 
> 
> 
> Within the scope of realisation 10 mln m3 of earthworks have been executed, 300 thousand m3 of concrete has been used and 1.3 mln tonnes of blacktop has been laid. For the three successive building seasons, in the topmost moments of works, there have been 4.5 thousand people present on the construction site, including over one thousand of people employed by the general contractor, the company Skanska-NDI. 500 of various machines were working at the construction as well as 500 transport vehicles. The earthworks included building-in of a new lane of the motorway from the node Nowe Marzy to the node Lubicz (51.72 km) as well as passages through the Vistula river in the vicinity of Grudziądz.
> 
> 
> 
> Within the scope of II stage of the construction of the motorway A1, a bridge over the Vistula river near Grudziądz has been built, having 1 954 metres, which is the longest bridge in our country. Furthermore, within the scope of works a partly realised section from the node Lubicz to Czerniewice has been modernised (10.7 km) together with completion of the construction of bridges over Drwęca and Vistula river near Toruń.
> 
> 
> 
> Pursuant to the project, 5 new motorway nodes have been built, including Warlubie node, built on the route of the I stage of the investment (put into use in February 2011). On the newly opened section between Nowe Marzy and Czerniewice two nodes will be active - in Lisewo and in Lubicz. The remaining two nodes (nodes Grudziądz and node Turzno), will be put into use in 2012, after building local connections to the motorway exits. Within the scope of the venture 4 pairs of rest and service areas (RAS) have been built – in Malankowo, Drzonowo, Nowy Dwór and in Nowa Wieś.
> 
> 
> 
> Consortium Gdańsk Transport Company, in which the following companies have respective shares: Skanska Infrastructure Development - 30%, John Laing Infrastructure Ltd. – 29.69%, NDI Autostrada Sp. z o.o. – 25.31% as well as Intertoll Infrastructure Developments BV - 15%, from 1997 has a concession for the construction and operation of the motorway A1.
> 
> 
> 
> Scope of works:
> 
> bridges over Vistula river - 2
> bridge facilities - 49
> bridge facilities for modernisation - 14
> facilities for demolition - 1
> rest and service areas - (RAS) - 4 pairs
> road nodes – 5 (including Warlubie node in stage 1)
> maintenance areas (OUA) - 1
> toll collection points (PPO) - 1
> toll collection stations (SPO) - 4
> earthworks - 10 000 000 m3
> quantity of concrete - 225000 m3
> quantity of blacktops - 1 300 000 ton
> 
> Technical data
> 
> number of lanes: 4, every 2 in each direction
> lane width – 3.75 m
> surface - bituminous


----------



## bleetz

Strzala said:


> A4 highway Gliwice - Katowice:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZRtwI3GEkE
> 
> 
> *Three lane roadway from 3:02*


Excellent video quality and a fantastic stretch of the road. The only bit that I didn't like was where the road turns left quickly and the speed is reduced to 100, otherwise a masterpiece of a road. Your lane discipline is pretty good too.


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## mr.cool

Is there a certain temperature that decides whether construction works of motorways are called off for a particular day? I know that the winter season there is hardly any work but I was wondering to if there is a certain temperature that has an impact on it or not? Thanks.


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## Luki_SL

mr.cool said:


> Is there a certain temperature that decides whether construction works of motorways are called off for a particular day? I know that the winter season there is hardly any work but I was wondering to if there is a certain temperature that has an impact on it or not? Thanks.


It depends on what kind of construction works are carried out. All works should stop at about -5/-10 Celsius degree. In the lower temperatures the ground is frozen, unfit to carry out any construction work.


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## geogregor

Luki_SL said:


> It depends on what kind of construction works are carried out. All works should stop at about -5/-10 Celsius degree. In the lower temperatures the ground is frozen, unfit to carry out any construction work.


Not all works should stop at -5, you can pour concrete as long as it is special winter mix. In Canada there are concrete jobs going at -15 -20. 
Of course it is more expensive and not always make sense. 
You can also continue works with metal constructions etc.


----------



## Rombi

Poland in third place together with Bulgaria in terms of fatalities per million inhabitants in the EU. At first, an honorable place Greece and Romania on the second. Datas for the year 2010.
http://europa.eu/rapid/pressRelease...format=HTML&aged=1&language=PL&guiLanguage=en


----------



## Ult1me

Jakub Warszauer said:


> Actually, S74 runs between functional city centre and northern districts (flats and indtustrial district on the western side of railway). It's somewhat like S8 in Warsaw.
> 
> It's not a bad idea, although it might look like. With all respect for Kielce, it is a medium-sized city. This expressway should serve the city and transit properly for longer than decade.
> 
> After that we're gonna be rich enough to build eastern bypass of Kielce along S73, mirroring S7 .


In Kielce we have much traffic to eastern side, unfortunately we've got only one main, wide road to this direction (Sandomierska Street, actually part of National Road 74). In rush hour it's horribly hard to get outside from the city... This ~6 km will help to organise traffic in all eastern part of Kielce, where now it takes sometimes 15-20 mins to pass about 1km. 

S73? It's such a nice idea... In this moment, the north side of N. Road 73 which goes to Kielce Północ interchange (with S7) looks like an expressway, but it have two left-turnings. 
And EU doesn't want to give us a subsidy to rebuild an southern part of 73 near Kielce.


(Sry for my English)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Pretty bad. But mark my words, it will improve dramatically as soon as the busy long-distance routes are replaced by motorways. Most countries which score bad at traffic safety lack motorways. You can also see that Spain had one the largest reduction in traffic fatalities at the same time a huge motorway network was developed. It is now the safest country in southern Europe. The next problem for Poland to tackle is driving under influence.


----------



## Bzyq_74

Increase penalties for violations of traffic rules would improve the statistics of fatal accidents.


----------



## Switek

I do agree with above statement. Polish drivers are mostly demoralized as it comes to traffic laws obedience. One of the reason is low level of police monitoring coverage. I'm afraid that Polish drivers will transfer their bad habits into highways and expressways...


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> You can also see that Spain had one the largest reduction in traffic fatalities at the same time a huge motorway network was developed. It is now the safest country in southern Europe. T


Something similar is happening in Ireland. After they opened their motorway network it become one of the safest countries in Europe.


----------



## toonczyk

Switek said:


> I do agree with above statement. Polish drivers are mostly demoralized as it comes to traffic laws obedience. One of the reason is low level of police monitoring coverage. I'm afraid that Polish drivers will transfer their bad habits into highways and expressways...


Actually Poles behave rather well on motorways, given how little experience they have with them. Compared to what's happening on Italian motorways, we drive in a really calm and safe fashion in my opinion.

As for the penalties for speeding - I would welcome raising them in built up areas. But outside... I'm not so sure, since whenever I see police cars "hunting", it's not in really dangerous spots, but in places where for no apparent reason there is a local speed limit.

I really think we're going to see a tremendous positive change (in terms of road fatalities) in 2013 due to all of the new roads kicking in. But it's going to take us a long, long time to catch up with the west.


----------



## rav00

Let's completely ban cars - after that, car accidents would drop do zero. ;]

And as for higher penalties - I wouldn't expect drastic increase in this field. Sadly, speedcameras and other means of speed measuring in Poland are supposed to bring money to the budget. If penalties were very high, there would be fewer fatalities, but also cashflow would stop.

Some speedcameras were already taken down because drivers slowed down and "money box" ceased generating income.



> Actually Poles behave rather well on motorways, given how little experience they have with them. Compared to what's happening on Italian motorways, we drive in a really calm and safe fashion in my opinion.


This summer in Croatia, the only two dangerous situations I had were caused by damned Italian drivers... ;/


----------



## ChrisZwolle

toonczyk said:


> I really think we're going to see a tremendous positive change (in terms of road fatalities) in 2013 due to all of the new roads kicking in. But it's going to take us a long, long time to catch up with the west.


Slovakia managed to do it already. It's now the safest country in central Europe.


----------



## madad

Hello Polish colleagues,

I am driving often from Brno(CZ) to Poznan and I am curious if there are future plans of continuing the highway near Wroclaw (A8) to south of Poland ?

I try to draw a line on the route i'm interested about.
Thank you for your answers :cheers:


----------



## mcarling

It's not difficult to imagine the S8 eventually being extended from Wroclaw to (bypass) Ząbkowice Śląskie or Klodzko. Any further would probably require a cooperative arrangement with the Czech Republic to build an R-class road from the R35 at Mohelnice to the border. Without major EU funding, it seems unlikely.

Once the D1/A1 motorway opens up at the CZ/PL border (next summer?), that will be your fastest and safest route between Brno and Wroclaw.


----------



## kooba

Also there will be S3 road from Lubawka (PL/CZ border). It have environmental decision (DŚU), but low priority so it's unlikely to be build for next few years. As far as I know Czech side is not hurrying up on they side neither (R11).

A8/S8 extension to the south it's NOT planned at all, so let's leave it to imagination


----------



## madad

mcarling said:


> It's not difficult to imagine the S8 eventually being extended from Wroclaw to (bypass) Ząbkowice Śląskie or Klodzko. Any further would probably require a cooperative arrangement with the Czech Republic to build an R-class road from the R35 at Mohelnice to the border. Without major EU funding, it seems unlikely.
> 
> Once the D1/A1 motorway opens up at the CZ/PL border (next summer?), that will be your fastest and safest route between Brno and Wroclaw.





kooba said:


> Also there will be S3 road from Lubawka (PL/CZ border). It have environmental decision (DŚU), but low priority so it's unlikely to be build for next few years. As far as I know Czech side is not hurrying up on they side neither (R11).
> 
> A8/S8 extension to the south it's NOT planned at all, so let's leave it to imagination


Thank you! :cheers:


----------



## mcarling

madad said:


> Thank you!


You're welcome. BTW, someday it might be better to take the S11 between Katowice and Poznan than to take the A4 and S5 via Wroclaw, but at least for the next five years it will be best to go via Wroclaw.


----------



## snowdog

toonczyk said:


> Actually Poles behave rather well on motorways, given how little experience they have with them. Compared to what's happening on Italian motorways, we drive in a really calm and safe fashion in my opinion.
> 
> As for the penalties for speeding - I would welcome raising them in built up areas. But outside... I'm not so sure, since whenever I see police cars "hunting", it's not in really dangerous spots, but in places where for no apparent reason there is a local speed limit.
> 
> I really think we're going to see a tremendous positive change (in terms of road fatalities) in 2013 due to all of the new roads kicking in. But it's going to take us a long, long time to catch up with the west.


I agree.

There are many morons but usually driving on the Polish Motorway is a breeze, especially compared to here. One of the main reasons is exactly that the speed limit is higher and enforcement is low. In the NL I am constantly on the lookout for dirty speed traps. In PL, I just set CC @ 160 kph and sit back.
Only overtaking lorries are a *****, especially the ones who take ages, aside from lorries, driving on PL motorways is great.


----------



## ufonut

S69 Bielsko Biala - Zywiec by Marek Kocjan












marek_kocjan said:


> Nowe zdjęcia - www.facebook.com


----------



## Uppsala

ufonut said:


> S69 Bielsko Biala - Zywiec by Marek Kocjan


A lot of lights at this road! It's a model called SGS 306. You can find a lot of that model in the UK too.


----------



## snowdog

Wow nice pictures, lovely looking road.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

S1 + S69 opened today! 

map:









This is one of the greatest days for motorway openings in Europe in the past 2 years. I've been tracking motorway openings since February 2010 and I've never seen six motorway openings on one day. 

Also opened today;

* A2 Slovenia (2 km)
* A-7 Spain (5 km)
* AP-46 Spain (25 km)
* R1 Slovakia (45 km)


----------



## Luki_SL

^^S1 and S69 opened tonay is 9,1km long


----------



## Mateusz

madad said:


> Hello Polish colleagues,
> 
> I am driving often from Brno(CZ) to Poznan and I am curious if there are future plans of continuing the highway near Wroclaw (A8) to south of Poland ?
> 
> I try to draw a line on the route i'm interested about.
> Thank you for your answers :cheers:


Low Silesian Voivodship published its own transport strategy around 2009. It included extending S5 south of Wrocław via Kłodzko towards Czech border.

However these plans are not binding for central government in Warsaw. We will have to wait and see if this will get any priority after current projects will be completed.


----------



## Kuras77

ChrisZwolle said:


> S1 + S69 opened today!
> This is one of the greatest days for motorway openings in Europe in the past 2 years. I've been tracking motorway openings since February 2010 and I've never seen six motorway openings on one day.
> 
> Also opened today;
> 
> * A2 Slovenia (2 km)
> * A-7 Spain (5 km)
> * AP-46 Spain (25 km)
> * R1 Slovakia (45 km)


DK61 bypass of Serock (7 km) was also opened today...exactly 8 minutes ago  Is almost *S*61 
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=83118771&postcount=6502


----------



## [email protected]

Also opened today: Important part of Kraków's road infrastructure, three-level 'Rondo Katynia'

I believe this is a partial opening though, works in the lowest level (tunnels) are still ongoing.

Link:http://krakow.gazeta.pl/krakow/51,35798,10553542.html?i=0


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Construction of S8 between Łask and Rzgów on the southern side of Łódź began today


----------



## ufonut

As they say "success has many fathers"  

By the way there is a long weekend in Poland coming up, usually one of the deadliest times in a year in terms of car accidents. I wonder how many lives will be saved just by opening these stretches of expressways.


----------



## Deo

*S7: Skarżysko-Kamienna - Kielce - Chęciny (Świętokrzyskie)*


----------



## bleetz

Nice video, watched the whole thing actually  Thanks very much for posting, but please try adding a nicer soundtrack next time


----------



## Blaskovitz

ChrisZwolle said:


> Construction of S8 between Łask and Rzgów on the southern side of Łódź began today




Guy in a creamy coat looks weird, like a Italian gangster from New York :lol::lol:


----------



## nv2

^^ He is just sad because he don't get a shovel.


----------



## darko06

ChrisZwolle said:


> S1 + S69 opened today!
> 
> This is one of the greatest days for motorway openings in Europe in the past 2 years. I've been tracking motorway openings since February 2010 and I've never seen six motorway openings on one day.
> 
> Also opened today;
> 
> * A2 Slovenia (2 km)
> * A-7 Spain (5 km)
> * AP-46 Spain (25 km)
> * R1 Slovakia (45 km)


Sorry that Croatian A-8 (Kanfanar-Rogovići section, 18 km) was opened on 29th, instead of 28th. :nuts:
If it was opened on 28th, seven motorway openings in Europe in one day would happen.


----------



## Blaskovitz

nv2 said:


> ^^ He is just sad because he don't get a shovel.


or he just hid corpse earlier in this place :lol: :nuts::nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The first carriageway of S6 around Nowogard opened to traffic yesterday.

Does anyone know if these interchanges as on the map below are also on the signs? Because Polish Wikipedia gives different exit names from villages nearby.


----------



## michael_siberia

GDDKiA also informs about "Nowogard ..." exits instead of village-named ones.


----------



## Nowax

[S69] Bielsko-Biała - Żywiec (photos Pawel Strykowski)


----------



## toonczyk

That will hopefully once and for all disprove the misconception (popular in this thread ) that Poland is all flat and easy to build roads in


----------



## Sponsor

^^It is.


----------



## Rombi

Yeap. Poland with the average height about 173 meters above sea level is definitely a "bad guy" for road constructions.^^


----------



## mcarling

GROBIN said:


> Via Baltica in Poland - remember this decision from 2009 to change its route ? ...
> About a week ago, the decision has been approved by the European Comission.


If I'm reading this right, the EU decision is only approval of the route. No EU funding has been approved yet -- at least not in this report. This would seem to be a candidate for funding in the EU's 2014-2020 regional development budget.


----------



## kmieciu

*A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl (stretch Rzepin - Nowy Tomyśl)*

A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl, video from stretch Rzepin - Nowy Tomyśl

Part one from Rzepin (17km) to Lubrza (59km)





Part two from Lubrza (59km) to Myszęcin (76km)





Part three from Myszęcin (76km) to Nowy Tomyśl (108km).


----------



## mcarling

Progress looks really good. Only the unpaved section near Lubrza looks worrisome for an on-time opening.


----------



## kmieciu

Interchange Trzciel, aerial video.


----------



## GROBIN

Thanks Kmieciu ! 

The section near Lubrza mcarling talks about looks to be quite short. And in general, the section looks very good. I don't think fixing missing roadsigns & crashbarriers will take a lot of time 

I just don't understand why the exit to the beautiful town and surroundings of Łagów and the second one to Myszęcin (which would be really useful for people driving between Świebodzin and the east and avoids making a big detour to the S3 Zielona Góra - Międzyrzecz) are only "planned" ! :bash:

Anyway, The Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl A2 section looks quite similar to the Konin - Stryków one  I prefer the surroundings of the first, but I prefer the infrastructure of the latter. Nice, nice !  :cheers:


----------



## kmieciu

GROBIN said:


> Thanks Kmieciu !
> 
> The section near Lubrza mcarling talks about looks to be quite short. And in general, the section looks very good. I don't think fixing missing roadsigns & crashbarriers will take a lot of time
> 
> I just don't understand why the exit to the beautiful town and surroundings of Łagów and the second one to Myszęcin (which would be really useful for people driving between Świebodzin and the east and avoids making a big detour to the S3 Zielona Góra - Międzyrzecz) are only "planned" ! :bash:
> 
> Anyway, The Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl A2 section looks quite similar to the Konin - Stryków one  I prefer the surroundings of the first, but I prefer the infrastructure of the latter. Nice, nice !  :cheers:


This is a big mistake that this interchanges are only planned, it makes an exteritorial highway.
This will be a problem for Nevada hotel in Poźrzadło.


----------



## GROBIN

kmieciu said:


> This is a big mistake that this interchanges are only planned, it makes an exteritorial highway.
> This will be a problem for Nevada hotel in Poźrzadło.


I know where that hotel is :lol: Maybe we should write a note about it to GDDKiA ?

EDIT: btw, thanks for the aerial view of the Trzciel exit  It's very interesting to see asphalt turning into concrete !


----------



## rakcancer

Looks like Yahoo.Maps is going fast into the future. I hope that dream will come true soon...


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## Blaskovitz

^^And where is expressways?


----------



## Luki_SL

^^Expressways are signed as normal roads...


----------



## Don Vito KurDeBalanz

Long live to Yahoo! :cheers: Let's just imagine that all those roads are already existing :cheers:


----------



## ufonut

Konotopa interchange by cgn1979



cgn1979 said:


> 1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3.


----------



## sumer urmiyeli

Very good Highway! I enjoyed...


----------



## Agnette

Can anybody explain what does it mean *MOP* abbreviation?


----------



## Janek0

Rest area (miejsce obsługi podróżnych)


----------



## bebe.2006

MOP = Miejsce (place) Obslugi (to serve) Podroznych (traveller) = motorway services = (highway) rest stop (area)


----------



## mcarling

Looking at the new 04.11.2011 map from *Blaskovitz*, I notice that there are only six sections out for tender:
- the S7 partial bypass of Kraków 
- the S11 partial bypass of Poznań
- the S12/S17 bypass of Lublin
- the S7 bypass of Radom
- the S7 from Miłomłyn to Olsztynek
- the S8 from Syców to Łask

Admittedly, the last one is rather long. Note that there are currently no A roads out for tender.


----------



## toonczyk

^^ And two of those tenders were started back in 2009...
This has not been a good year in terms of new investments unfortunately, we're still barely managing to keep the public debt under 55% of GDP, so there is very little funds for infrastructure investments. Contracts for S12/17 and S8 will most likely be signed in the near future, but that's probably it for this year and the first quarter of 2012.

As for A roads - there are no tenders because all motorways except for A1 Tuszyn-Pyrzowice and A2 east of Warsaw are already U/C or ready. And those two will most likely be built in PPP, right now the documentation is being prepared.


----------



## GROBIN

mcarling said:


> Looking at the new 04.11.2011 map from *Blaskovitz*, (...)


May I have the link to that map ?


----------



## mcarling

GROBIN said:


> May I have the link to that map ?


See page 350 of this thread.


----------



## mcarling

toonczyk said:


> There is a reserve for an additional lane if it becomes necessary.


I think the 3rd lane will become necessary within two years due to induced demand.


----------



## jeremiash

Code:


	                          Rok 2011	Rok 2013	Rok 2015	Rok 2020	Rok 2035
Odcinek	
Stryków-Łyszkowice (21,7 km)	62 500 (26,6)	62 900 (23,0)	66 900 (23,3)	63 500(25,2)	88 100 (27,0)
Łyszkowice-Nieborów (12,4 km)	55 000 (26,5)	55 400 (21,5)	58 700 (22,1)	54 100(23,5)	76 800 (25,9)
Nieborów-Wiskitki (21,9 km)	54 500 (29,8)	58 900 (23,6)	62 500 (24,0)	56 900 (25,3)	73 200 (27,7)
Wiskitki-Grodzisk (19,0 km)	51 800 (29,8)	65 900 (23,6)	69 000 (24,7)	64 800 (25,9)	76 100 (29,2)
Grodzisk-Pruszków (12,3 km)	74 600 (19,3)	96 800 (16,8)	102 300 (17,3)	101 800 (17,8)	120 600 (20,1)
Pruszków-Konotopa (4,7 km)	85 300 (16,7)	122 000 (16,3)	128 200 (16,6)	130 100 (16,8)	158 400 (18,1)

These are the projected traffic count numbers (with percentage of truck traffic in brackets) taken off the Siskom website. They don't seem to support your theory. And they were made with several assumptions some of which will not be fulfilled, while others are uncertain. For one, they assumed the vignette system will still be present for trucks, which it isn't, they have to pay per km. The other assumption was that passenger vehicles would pay 0,10 zł/km, which isn't certain since atm that price is 0,20 zł/km and the recent bill which proposes 0,10 zł/km is meant to apply only to motorways which recieved EU funding. I assume that the fall in AADT between most sections from 2015 to 2020 has something to do with (perhaps outdated) plans to have major sections of S7 complete by then.


----------



## mcarling

jeremiash said:


> These are the projected traffic count numbers (with percentage of truck traffic in brackets) taken off the Siskom website. They don't seem to support your theory. And they were made with several assumptions some of which will not be fulfilled, while others are uncertain.


Those numbers also seem to assume that induced demand does not occur. We'll see. Thank you for posting those projections.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Those are actually pretty high traffic volumes for a new motorway. 

I think Poland should count more than once every 5 years, especially nowadays with rapid changes in traffic volumes. In my opinion, they should count all major roads at least once a year.


----------



## toonczyk

mcarling said:


> Those numbers also seem to assume that induced demand does not occur. We'll see. Thank you for posting those projections.


Those numbers were calculated using advanced scientific models, so I'd assume they count that in.


ChrisZwolle said:


> Those are actually pretty high traffic volumes for a new motorway.


Well, Warsaw metro area has a population of well over 2,5 million people, so that's not unexpected. But those number also show, that three-laning of A2 west of Grodzisk Mazowiecki is very unlikely in the next 20 years.


----------



## jeremiash

Like toonczyk said, I would assume that they do factor in induced demand. Looking at the AADT of roads that could possible see some traffic shift to A2, I personally would say these numbers are still pretty optimistic. Here's the AADT 2010 table, you can check for yourself link. Dk 2 carries about 20k vehicles (jumps to 30k right before warsaw), most of them come from dk 14. Not many vehicles should leave dk 8 (most of it is soon going to be S8, and it's still going to be the route of choice for cars coming from the south), unless somewhere around mszczonów to get onto A2 in grodzisk mazowiecki and benefit from the improved entry into warsaw. Dk 8 carries around 30k vehicles. I'm very anxious to see what the reality is going to be like, to bad there's not going to another traffic count before 2015. But then again, that traffic count is going to encompass all routes that are being built now, which is good


----------



## Agnette

> Originally Posted by Astro01
> ...
> 1. Przyszłe *SPO* na węźle Piekary wygląda coraz lepiej. W tle wiadukt nad rondem, po którym leci obwodnica Piekar (DK911).


Can anybody explain me what is the difference between SPO and PPO?


----------



## jeremiash

SPO is a toll point located on an interchange, outside the main carriageways of the motorways, while a PPO is a toll point located on the motorway itself.

So PPO:









SPO:


----------



## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think Poland should count more than once every 5 years, especially nowadays with rapid changes in traffic volumes. In my opinion, they should count all major roads at least once a year.


I agree. It's important to have good data.



toonczyk said:


> Those numbers were calculated using advanced scientific models, so I'd assume they count that in.


One would think so. I studied econometrics as part of a masters degree in mathematical economics, so I should have some idea of approximately what those models should look like. Let's take a superficial look at some of these numbers.

Consider Łyszkowice-Nieborów. These numbers project a 1.64% annual AADT growth rate from 2011 to 2015. Even without a new motorway opening during that period, that would be suspiciously low. Vehicle ownership in Poland rose at an average annual rate of 7.67% from 2004 to 2008 according to the EU:
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ITY_OFFPUB/KS-DK-10-001/EN/KS-DK-10-001-EN.PDF

The vehicle ownership growth rate has probably slowed since 2008 and will probably be well under 7% from 2011 to 2015, but still well above 1.64%. Ignoring induced demand, the null hypothesis should expect AADT between any two cities to grow at least as fast as the vehicle ownership growth rate -- except in cases of severe congestion. Induced demand should result in a substantial increase in AADT -- unless the model is based on an expectation of some unknown event substantially reducing AADT, for example, a pandemic killing a third of the population, or something similarly far-fetched. In other words, even with an assumption of zero induced demand, it's difficult to explain how the model could predict an AADT increase of only 1.64% per year from 2011 to 2015 between Łyszkowice and Nieborów.

I can read enough Polish to see that the 2011 numbers are, of course, projected. Maybe those are old numbers and the 2011 numbers assume that the A2 would open before the beginning of 2011? In that case, most of the increase from induced demand would already be built into the 2011 numbers, but 1.64% is still suspiciously low. The variance among the projected AADT growth rates from 2011 to 2015 for different sections is suspiciously high.

Does anyone have measured (not projected) AADT data for Warsaw-Łódź?



toonczyk said:


> those number also show, that three-laning of A2 west of Grodzisk Mazowiecki is very unlikely in the next 20 years.


I think the decision whether or not to build a third lane will depend not so much on modeled projections but on actual AADT measurements after the A2 is open. The opening of the S8 between Wrocław and Łódź should also cause induced demand to increase AADT on the A2 between Łódź and Warsaw.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

"induced demand" is a grossly overstated concept.

The main reasons for traffic growth are

* spatial development (housing, offices, factories, etc.)
* economic development (higher wages, villagers working in cities instead of agriculture, more jobs, recreation possibilities etc.)
* demographic development (population growth, multi-income households, etc.)


----------



## mcarling

jeremiash said:


> Like toonczyk said, I would assume that they do factor in induced demand. Looking at the AADT of roads that could possible see some traffic shift to A2, I personally would say these numbers are still pretty optimistic. Here's the AADT 2010 table, you can check for yourself link. Dk 2 carries about 20k vehicles (jumps to 30k right before warsaw), most of them come from dk 14. Not many vehicles should leave dk 8 (most of it is soon going to be S8, and it's still going to be the route of choice for cars coming from the south), unless somewhere around mszczonów to get onto A2 in grodzisk mazowiecki and benefit from the improved entry into warsaw. Dk 8 carries around 30k vehicles. I'm very anxious to see what the reality is going to be like, to bad there's not going to another traffic count before 2015. But then again, that traffic count is going to encompass all routes that are being built now, which is good


I just saw this after I posted the above. Thanks for the link.

What about the AADT on the 719 between Łódź and Warsaw? From my experience, I would guess it's probably between 12,000 and 25,000. I expect more than half of that will switch to the A2 when it opens.


----------



## jeremiash

Check my post from 12:36 PM. I gave the link to AADT data for all of poland. Most łódź-warsaw traffic tries to get onto dk 8 as fast as possible atm. With S8 between piotrków trybunalski and mszczynów opening at the same time as A2 and it being free, it's going to be a major competition for A2.


----------



## jeremiash

Dw 719 is 10k around grodzisk, 20k before pruszków, 30k after pruszków and 40k right before warsaw, but to me it seem that this has already been taken into account in the grodzisk-konotopa A2 projected AADT.


----------



## bleetz

ChrisZwolle said:


> "induced demand" is a grossly overstated concept.
> 
> The main reasons for traffic growth are
> 
> * spatial development (housing, offices, factories, etc.)
> * economic development (higher wages, villagers working in cities instead of agriculture, more jobs, recreation possibilities etc.)
> * demographic development (population growth, multi-income households, etc.)


I think that induced demand might be higher in places where there are little alternatives, so it would be higher in Poland than in Holland. Presently there are tons of little roads in those regions and traffic spreads to all of them, so the traffic on the road that the motorway directly replaces might be deceptively small. Once you get a massive motorway built in the region, all the traffic from those little roads just goes into the motorway. However, when they estimate AADT they look only at the roads closest to the motorway and might miss something out. Also, once a motorway gets built, factories, logistics centres, houses, etc. tend to be built not too far from it because people want to live not far from a motorway and that's where businesses want to be located. That's how the demand gets induced and I think that it can get quite significant in a few years, especially in places like Poland where quality motorways and expressways are still scarce when compared to places like Holland.


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## ChrisZwolle

That is not really induced demand, but a shift of existing traffic to a new road. Induced demand is generally seen as new traffic that is generated because of a new motorway, regardless of spatial or socio-economic developments like I mentioned (i.e. the construction of the motorway is the sole reason for traffic increases). The concept of "induced demand" is highly debatable, and often used by opponents of any road improvement project.


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## GROBIN

One more criterium about induced demand that can be very important in the Poland's case: the public/private transportation offer (or the lack of it) - trains, buses ... as well as its price.

Currently, the PKP situation doesn't look really good, so it's hard to say how many daily commuters - for instance - between Warsaw and Łódź will chose motorways & expressways. Moreover, as Chriszwolle wrote it in other terms, the A2 can create a real estate boom in places like Pruszków (you can already see it), Grodzisk Mazowiecki and so on. Some factories may move from inner Warsaw to the outskirts too...

So I think measuring the traffic flow every year is the best solution.


----------



## mcarling

jeremiash said:


> Check my post from 12:36 PM. I gave the link to AADT data for all of poland.


Thanks, I did check that, but I didn't find DW719.



jeremiash said:


> Most łódź-warsaw traffic tries to get onto dk 8 as fast as possible atm. With S8 between piotrków trybunalski and mszczynów opening at the same time as A2 and it being free, it's going to be a major competition for A2.


Ok. I have no idea what routes most drivers choose. I've tried the A2 and the DW719 and they are both severely congested. I've driven the DK8 between Warsaw and Katowice, but I haven't tried it when going west because I've been going past Łódź on the A2.



jeremiash said:


> Dw 719 is 10k around grodzisk, 20k before pruszków, 30k after pruszków and 40k right before warsaw, but to me it seem that this has already been taken into account in the grodzisk-konotopa A2 projected AADT.


Thanks. I'm sure that is included in the projections for the A2. I'm trying to get a better idea of the baseline upon which the AADT is projected.



bleetz said:


> once a motorway gets built, factories, logistics centres, houses, etc. tend to be built not too far from it because people want to live not far from a motorway and that's where businesses want to be located. That's how the demand gets induced and I think that it can get quite significant in a few years, especially in places like Poland where quality motorways and expressways are still scarce when compared to places like Holland.


That's right, but it's not the only sort of induced demand. There are also a lot of trips that are taken just because the road is better than would not have been taken otherwise. Someone living in Łódź might go to the theatre in Warsaw if the drive is 45 minutes who would not go to the theatre if the drive were 2 hours, for example.



ChrisZwolle said:


> The concept of "induced demand" is highly debatable, and often used by opponents of any road improvement project.


There is no serious debate over whether or induced demand occurs. There is serious debate over how to model induced demand. Yes, unfortunately, induced demand is abused by infrastructure opponents to naively resist development. If we can figure out how to model induced demand well, then it will not be so subject to abuse. It's also important to consider that many of the extra trips have economic benefit to society. It is certainly not the case that induced demand will always cause congestion to be just as bad as it was before the road improvement. In fact, that is rarely the case.

In the case at hand, congestion on the DK2 and DW719 will certainly be relieved.


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## jeremiash

About the AADT's for dw 719 and other dw, here you go  what interests me, personally is how drivers coming from wrocław (the south west basically) will react to the suggestion that they are meant to go through S8+A1+A2. Currently drivers just get onto the dk 8 and go all the way from wroclaw to warsaw through piotrków trybunalski. I wonder how much of that traffic will go through A2 and how much will attempt to get onto S8 piotrków-warsaw somewhere along the way.


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## mcarling

jeremiash said:


> About the AADT's for dw 719 and other dw, here you go


Thank you!



jeremiash said:


> what interests me, personally is how drivers coming from wrocław (the south west basically) will react to the suggestion that they are meant to go through S8+A1+A2. Currently drivers just get onto the dk 8 and go all the way from wroclaw to warsaw through piotrków trybunalski. I wonder how much of that traffic will go through A2 and how much will attempt to get onto S8 piotrków-warsaw somewhere along the way.


I think anyone trying to optimize trip time probably will drive S8+A1+A2. I think anyone trying to optimize trip cost probably will drive S8+DK12+S8. Alternatives?


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## GROBIN

As S8 Piotrków Trybunalski - Mszczonów (DK8) and A2 Stryków - Konotopa (S2) are being built simultaneously, one of the keys for the A2 to take a lot of traffic from the S8 would be building the Western Łódź bypass & trying to reroute people travelling through the Łódź agglomeration to skip the A1 solution.

On the other hand, as the toll plazas are made in Stryków, I'm not sure this option would work for the A2. BUT nobody knows when the S8 Mszczonów-Janki and the S7 from the Southern Warsaw S2/S79 crossing (which could take a lot of traffic from overcongested Janki, Raszyn and the Włochy district of Warsaw) will be made.

So on the one hand, Jeremiash is right to point out the S8 being a great toll-free competitor for the A2. On the other, I think people who will be in a real rush will take the A2 ... I'm not sure making a 3rd lane on the A2 will be necessary soon...

P.S.: I just updated my GPS and ... surprise ! the A2 already appears from the German border to Warsaw ! :cheers: Same for the S2 and S79 !  Love Becker !


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## Luki_SL

Photos by Kronos KBC from the A4 section Radymno-Korczowa (PL/UA border) : 
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=85651586&postcount=2252



Kronos KBC said:


> :goodbye:


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## Luki_SL

From : http://www.autostrada-a2.pl/en/driv...o-swiecko-as-early-as-30th-november-this-year


> *Official opening of the last sector of motorway to Świecko as early as 30th November this year! *
> With the start of December, the long awaited launching of the last sector of A2 motorway, connecting Poland with the network of European motorways will take place. First drivers might use the possibility of a fast ride to the border checkpoint in Świecko already on December 1st this year. For the first half-year, the usage of this over 100 kilometres long section of A2 motorway will be free off charge. The fare collection will start with the beginning of May 2012.



From : http://www.autostrada-a2.pl/en/drivers/news/147/a2---the-faster-we-build-the-closer-we-get-to-europe




> *A2 - THE FASTER WE BUILD, THE CLOSER WE GET TO EUROPE*
> 
> On November 30th this year, the official opening ceremony of A2 motorway at its final sector Nowy Tomyśl-Świecko will take place, and a couple of hours later, at midnight of December 1st this year, travellers will be able to safely use the new motorway to the border with Germany. From November 7th till December 6th at Poznań Old Town, everyone will have the opportunity to see the exhbition of photos documenting the progress of construction works at the motorway connecting Poland with the network of European motorways.
> 
> "A2 - the faster we build, the closer we get to Europe" is the title of the exhibition exposing the most important moments of the A2 motorway construction. The authors of these images are photographers from Poznań - Paweł Młodkowski and Mariusz Forecki. The exhibition consists of 50 photographs giving an account of the construction of Europe's biggest infrastructure project, realized in public-private partnership system. Poznanian exhibition is not only the visual representation of facts and data about the investment of Greater Poland. It is mainly the perpetuation of the work of thousand people, thanks to whom the dream of millions of drivers about a fast and safe connection with Europe is now fulfilled.
> "We decided on this exhibition from the construction of this amazing investment becuase images illustrate reality in the best way and show the real range of this venture. Even though the official opening of A2 motorway will take place on December 1st, we would like to invite everyone to get acquainted with the most important facts and scenes that accompanied the realization of this remarkable project, for the finalization of which we are waiting most impatiently", informs Zofia Kwiatkowska, PR officer of AWSAII.
> What shall we know from the exhibiton?
> A2 motorway is not only the most important transport link between Poland and Germany, but also a good example of co-operation between the state and the private business. It is also worth of notice that the Nowy Tomyśl-Świecko section is one of the longest motorway sections in Poland, build with the use of concrete technology, and in addition - available for exploitation six months before a date fixed in the agreement with government.
> Many photos are also devoted to the environment protection, since the motorway to the border with Germany goes through forest areas in 85 percent, including the areas protected by Natura 2000 programme. A number of solutions concerning protection of animal tracks makes A2 motorway at present the biggest ecological project in Europe.
> We invite you to the exhibition and wish you good impression!


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## ufonut

Gdansk - Trasa WZ by beczkarz



beczkarz said:


> witam
> kilka fotek ode mnie z innej perspektywy. (z 12.11.2011)
> przepraszam za jakosc ale wiadomo - nie bylem w stanie wyczyscic szyby
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> pozdrawiam


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## Strzala

^^Is it motorway or expressway?


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## Jakub Warszauer

One is expressway, the other highway (GP class).


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## Luki_SL

From : http://gddkia.gov.pl/en/a/10131/Investments-executed-according-to-the-schedule



> 16-11-2011
> print
> print
> Investments executed according to the schedule.
> 82 % of the work progress in the E section (Stryków - Konotopa) of the A2 motorway. The bypass of Bielsko-Biała has been operating for 2 weeks. On 16 November in the main news of Polsat Wydarzenia [Polsat News] false data have been given regarding the work progress in the bypass of Bielsko Biała as well as the E section of the A2 motorway.
> 
> We inform that despite the thesis stated in the press material in the bypass of Bielsko Biała there are no delays in the construction works, and, what is more it was put into operation on 28 October 2011. This information was provided by the General Directorate for National Roads and Motorways in the news on the website.
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of the construction of the A2 motorway the E section we inform that the work progress given in the press material at the level of 30% is false. The level of the work progress in this section is 82% and now the finishing works are being performed. Since September the reconstructed wastewater treatment plant has been in operation, the Motorways Maintenance Section is being completed. In the main run the mass has been put except for its last SMA [Stone Mastic Asphalt] layer (the wearing course). The works related to continuity of the motorways under the bridge structures are still in progress.
> 
> 
> 
> In the remaining sections the works are also being performed according to the schedule and there is no threat that the deadlines should not be met.


Another one: http://gddkia.gov.pl/en/a/10129/Aut...Programme-Infrastructure-and-Environment-OPIE


> Autumn refunds within the Operational Programme Infrastructure and Environment (OPI&E)
> In October 2011 The European Commission refunded around PLN 1.7 m for the projects executed by the General Directorate for National Roads and Motorways within the Operational Programme Infrastructure and Environment. In total since the beginning of the execution of the OPI&E the European Commission has given over PLN 11.5 m.


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## mcarling

^^
Great news! Hopefully, we'll see some videos soon.


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## LMB

GROBIN said:


> One more criterium about induced demand that can be very important in the Poland's case: the public/private transportation offer (or the lack of it) - trains, buses ... as well as its price.
> 
> Currently, the PKP situation doesn't look really good


...and the price matches the situation. In Western Europe it makes little economic sense for two adults to choose train over car, but in Poland trains are still cheap. And the income group which can ignore the price difference (=are rich enough) is still quite small. 

As for the perceived 'lack of transportation', most developed parts of Poland have relatively decent bus network, and again, those who need to rely on it now will not switch to cars when a new highway is built, because they already can't afford it (students, the elderly, poorer people etc.). A highway or no highway is not going to influence that choice.


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## kmieciu

*A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl*

A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl, 12 days to opening.



verva said:


> A2 (prawie) gotowa





verva said:


>


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## ChrisZwolle

This will be the largest European motorway opening by far this year.

The second biggest opening was the CM-41 in Spain on May 4th, with 46 kilometers opened to traffic.


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## mapman:cz

ChrisZwolle said:


> The second biggest opening was the CM-41 in Spain on May 4th, with 46 kilometers opened to traffic.


Slovak R1 that has been opened on Oct 28th also features 46 new kilometers 

Anyway, this polish one is really huge, congrats guys in advance!

BTW was Konin - Strykow section the longest opened stretch ever in Poland?


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## Jarekczup

The second was A1 from Grudziadz to Torun - 62,4 km


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## ChrisZwolle

Yep 104 km. The A2 will beat that by 1%. (105 km)


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## kmieciu

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yep 104 km. The A2 will beat that by 1%. (105 km)


1,1 + 105,9km 
___________________________________________________________________________________

*S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów*



kmieciu said:


> WD-01 - montaż łuków
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> WS-02a - stanowiska do prefabrykacji zbrojenia segmentów ustroju nośnego
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> WS-02a - zbrojenie płyty górnej segmentu nr 3 nitki wschodniej
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> WS-09 - montaż deskowania przejezdnego ustroju nośnego
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> WS-11 - asfalt twardolany
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> Układanie warstwy podbudowy bitumicznej w km 3+100
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> Układanie warswty podbudowy z kruszywa łamanego w km. 5+000
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> Układanie warstwy mrozoochronnej w km 6+100
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> Przygotowania do ułożenia warstwy podbudowy bitumicznej pomiędzy obiektami WS-07 i WD-08
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> Skarpowanie nasypu w km 8+300
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> ____________________________________________________________________________________________
> 
> *Jeśli chodzi o WS9 to będzie tam nieco inny system przesuwu ustroju nośnego deskowania niż ten który wklejałem ostatnio z youtube.*
> 
> Będzie to wyglądało tak, potrzebne tłumaczenie z chińskiego.





kmieciu said:


> budowa wytwórni koło obiektu WS-17
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> zagęszczanie walcem stabilizacji cementem jezdnia prawa km 20+750
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> zagęszczone pobocze na Rondzie Północ
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> zbrojenie słupów w osi B Ws-17





kmieciu said:


> dylatacja 1 WS-33
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> zbrojenie ustroju nośnego WD-26.1


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## ufonut

S2 Warsaw by


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## Blaskovitz

Cool 2 pics of S69. October 30th


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## ChrisZwolle

Will S74 Kielce - Cedzyna open today?


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## kmieciu

*A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl, stretch: Rzepin - Świecko*

*A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl, stretch: Rzepin - Świecko post 5517*


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## GROBIN

On *kmieciu*'s pics, it looks like the roadsigns near Świecko and Słubice haven’t been yet changed ... :bash:




ufonut said:


> S2 Warsaw by


@*ufonut*: are you sure it's not S79 on the first pic ?

P.S.: those 2 pics were taken from a Wizz Air plane, right ?


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## Deadeye Reloaded

kmieciu said:


> *A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl, stretch: Rzepin - Świecko post 5517*


^^
Wow, this is some serious German used on that sign! :uh:
If they have used the much more appropriate term "*Elektronische Maut*" they could have avoided the spelling error:

*Elektronisches Gebührenerhebungssystem*


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## Luki_SL

ChrisZwolle said:


> Hmm, the Polish road map of SSC shows it U/C


This map is updated once a week or less frequently


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## GROBIN

@*mcarling* - I understood. But opening ther northernmost "red" section of the S11 doesn't make any sense if the one out to tender isn't built ! Is there any particular difficult infrastructure building to be expected there ? Like a huge tunnel or bridge ?


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## kooba

GROBIN said:


> @*mcarling* - I understood. But opening ther northernmost "red" section of the S11 doesn't make any sense if the one out to tender isn't built ! Is there any particular difficult infrastructure building to be expected there ? Like a huge tunnel or bridge ?


I disagree. Why wouldn't open section if it is ready? Even if it wouldn't take much traffic until opening of the remaining section it can at least serve some local traffic. Do you think leaving ready road close would have more sense?


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## mcarling

GROBIN said:


> @*mcarling* - I understood. But opening ther northernmost "red" section of the S11 doesn't make any sense if the one out to tender isn't built ! Is there any particular difficult infrastructure building to be expected there ? Like a huge tunnel or bridge ?


I was in Poznan in August, but I didn't explore the path of the section out for tender. I think it's more likely that they proceeding with the bids they liked and declined to start with the sections with less attractive bids. Sometimes the ordering of construction is not optimal -- until the prices are considered.


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## GROBIN

kooba said:


> I disagree. Why wouldn't open section if it is ready? Even if it wouldn't take much traffic until opening of the remaining section it can at least serve some local traffic. Do you think leaving ready road close would have more sense?


... than opening a road to nowhere ? Hmmm ... Hard to say ... Without the mentioned section, it doesn't make any bypass to anything and shall only bring a lot of traffic from Oborniki to small, local roads...




mcarling said:


> I was in Poznan in August, but I didn't explore the path of the section out for tender. I think it's more likely that they proceeding with the bids they liked and declined to start with the sections with less attractive bids. Sometimes the ordering of construction is not optimal -- until the prices are considered.


I don't know Poznań that well ... Lots of real estate there, maybe ?


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## kooba

GROBIN said:


> ... than opening a road to nowhere ? Hmmm ... Hard to say ... Without the mentioned section, it doesn't make any bypass to anything and shall only bring a lot of traffic from Oborniki to small, local roads...


Only small section from Zakrzewo to Dąbrówka is road "to nowhere". But still - it's ready and maybe some local traffic can use it. Dąbrówka interchange will be connected to A2 before Euro 2012 (then the whole thing will have much more sense  ).

Answering your previous question - middle section was victim of protests of local people, and then lack of fundings. Don't know when will construction starts.


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## Switek

ChrisZwolle said:


> Hmm, the Polish road map of SSC shows it U/C


Fixed


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## ja.centy

Probably there's been lots of pics from the *A2 [Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl]* section already posted here, but today I came across some nice aerial ones (part of the motorway close to Świecko).














































Source: http://forsal.pl/artykuly/570422,au...oznan_z_granica_niemiec_zdjecia_lotnicze.html


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## GROBIN

Nice !  Hope they'll also demolish the former border crossing in Świecko, but from what I saw a couple of time ago, not really... hno:


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## toonczyk

A bypass of the existing border crossing is planned, but that won't be built in the near future.


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## ChrisZwolle

S69 around Bielsko-Biała is now well-visible in Google Earth:


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## Chris80678

Are there are more motorway openings planned once the new A2 section to the Polish/German border is formally opened in 2 days time? :cheers: 
Like an extension of the A1 from Maciejów interchange to DK911 in
Piekary Śląskie at the end of December for example? From the photos I've seen on the website it looks possible for this section to be opened before the end of 2011 :lol:


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## Blaskovitz

Luki_SL said:


> This map is updated once a week or less frequently


On friday evening will be new:cheers:


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## PLH

*Tommorow at 4 pm official ceremony on A2*, including among others:

President of Poland Bronisław Komorowski, former presidents Lech Wałęsa and Aleksander Kwaśniewski, as well as prime minister of Brandenburg, Matthias Platzeck.


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## mcarling

Blaskovitz said:


> On friday evening will be new


I'm looking forward to the new map. I really hope it will show some new tenders. Thanks for the work maintaining the map.


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## Nowax

-= A4 Szarow - Tarnow =- (foto by Nestorius)


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## Luki_SL

More photos from motorway A2 by Rusonaldo  :



Rusonaldo said:


> b)





Rusonaldo said:


> c)


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## Mateusz

>


Are you sure about that each of these lanes is 3.75 metres wide ? It doesn't look like it...

Maybe it's just an optical illusion


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## Luki_SL

^^It`s optical illusion. Each of these lanes is 3.75m wide


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## darko06

Congratulations anyway! Great job done.


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## Luki_SL

From :http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/en/a/10228/100-kilometers-of-motorway


> 100 kilometers of motorway
> The first drivers will use the concrete section of the A-2 Świecko-Nowy Tomyśl motorway on 1 December 2011. Thus, the A-2 motorway will become part of the European motorway network. A-2 Świecko-Nowy Tomyśl section of the motorway was built in the concession system. Autostrada Wielkopolska SA is the concessionaire.
> 
> A bit of technology
> 
> Świecko-Nowy Tomyśl is the first so long section of motorway (106 km) built in concrete technology in Poland. According to the estimates it will be possible to use the road without additional reinforcement for about 40 years following the construction.
> 
> 
> 
> The scope of work covered included, inter alia: the construction of 105.9 km concrete pavement motorway, including reconstruction of the existing national road No. 2; construction of over 80 bridges and viaducts; construction of 6 complete motorway junctions; construction Service Areas (MOP), the construction of a closed toll system; complete equipped with devices to protect the environment.
> 
> According to the agreement the motorway will be opened for traffic on 1 December 2011 but up to 20 May 2012 additional works outside the roadway may be carried out, including: finishing works at the stations and tollbooths, planting, or corrections to the culverts for animals or drainage system . Therefore toll collection on this section of motorway will begin on 20 May 2012. Then the motorway will be put into operation completely with full equipment, including:
> 
> 
> 
> • Toll Collection Points,
> 
> • Alarm System,
> 
> • Service Areas.
> 
> 
> 
> So far, the A-2 was 254 km long and connected Łódź (Stryków) with Nowy Tomyśl. Additional 106 km long new section will make 360 km. Since July this year the motorway section from Stryków to Nowy Tomyśl is payable. The section of the A-2 Motorway from Nowy Tomyśl to Świecko (106 km) is a key fragment of the Polish motorway network that will connect our country with the West. Meanwhile, we can get to Łódź from the western border, but as soon as in seven months' time Warsaw will enjoy the direct connection with the West. Over the next half year the journey from Nowy Tomyśl to Świecko via A-2 motorway will be free of charge. Toll collection will be launched on 20 May 2012.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A bit of history
> 
> The contract to construct and operate the A-2 motorway concerning the section Świecko-Nowy Tomyśl was signed on 30 August 2008 and an agreement on financing of the investment was signed on 29 June 2009. Funds for implementation of the investments amounting to 1.560 billion euro came from three sources: a loan granted by the European Investment Bank in the amount of 974 million euro (about 62.5% of the value of the investment); loans granted by 11 international commercial banks amounting to 394 million euro (approximately 25.5% of the value of the investment) and the contributions of the shareholders of the concessionaire in the amount of 186 million euro, representing about 12% of the total cost of realization of the investment.
> 
> 
> 
> The commencement of the construction was preceded by several years of preparation. On 10 March 1997, the Minister of Transport and Maritime Affairs granted three concessions for the construction and operation of the A-2 Motorway (from Świecko to Stryków) to the concessionaire - company Autostrada Wielkopolska SA which has been selected in the tender proceedings, and a concession agreement specifying the detailed terms and conditions for the construction and operation of the highway was concluded on 12 September 1997. Since the concessionaire did not gain the funding for the entire project (total of 359.760 km) the concession agreement introduced the division of the realization of the sections covered by the concessions, on the section Nowy Tomyśl - Konin (used in its entirety since 2004), Świecko-Nowy Tomyśl (to be put into service on 1 December 2011) and Konin - Stryków (eventually, at the request of the concessionaire the concession for the construction of this section was repealed by the order by the Minister dated 5 May 1999).
> 
> 
> 
> After putting into operation of the new section Tomyśl - Konin, the detailed negotiations concerning the section Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl were undertaken. Smooth conduct of the negotiation process between middle of May 2008 and August 2008 enabled to end the process of agreements lasting several years on 30 August 2008. Thanks to the hard work and the concessionaire and the then new team in GDDKiA, at the end of August - an agreement for the construction and operation of the motorway was concluded and 10 months later the concessionaire obtained the financial closure and the construction started in mid of July 2009.


----------



## delfin_pl

4th part of Trasa Słowackiego in Gdansk is now U/C, there will be the longest road tunnel in Poland under Vistula river, (drilling using TBM).






After Warsaw there are the biggest road investments going on now in Gdańsk.
check this out :cheers:

http://www.gik.gda.pl/


----------



## ChrisZwolle

So DK2 is already renumbered to DK92


----------



## rakcancer

delfin_pl said:


> 4th part of Trasa Słowackiego in Gdansk is now U/C, there will be the longest road tunnel in Poland under Vistula river, (drilling using TBM).
> 
> After Warsaw there are the biggest road investments going on now in Gdańsk.
> check this out :cheers:
> 
> http://www.gik.gda.pl/


Does it mean City of Gdansk solved a problem with source funding? As I remember they were debating till recently how to find money for that tunnel.


----------



## delfin_pl

rakcancer said:


> Does it mean City of Gdansk solved a problem with source funding? As I remember they were debating till recently how to find money for that tunnel.


its U/C now

thread about this tunnel

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1450885&page=8&highlight=tunel


----------



## Deadeye Reloaded

delfin_pl said:


> 4th part of Trasa Słowackiego in Gdansk is now U/C, there will be the longest road tunnel in Poland under Vistula river, (drilling using TBM).
> 
> [...]


^^Cool. Do you know which company will deliver the TBM for the construction? 

Herrenknecht maybe? :?


----------



## delfin_pl

^^^ yes!

http://m.trojmiasto.pl/news/Kret-ktory-wydrazy-tunel-powstanie-w-Niemczech-n52874.html


----------



## CrazySerb

toonczyk said:


> Mid 2009.


Thankskay:
The reason I ask is that when checking this section through GoogleEarth, the imagery dated 2004 shows some work had already been done, so I was wondering if there had been some delay maybe? Maybe Poland waited for EU financing?


----------



## toonczyk

CrazySerb said:


> Thankskay:
> The reason I ask is that when checking this section through GoogleEarth, the imagery dated 2004 shows some work had already been done, so I was wondering if there had been some delay maybe? Maybe Poland waited for EU financing?


It's a political thing. This motorway has been built in PPP, by a private contractor. The concession has been granted way back in 1997, but for political reasons the negotiations regarding the financial conditions took many years, until finally the contract has been signed in 2008. It could and should have been ready a few years ago, but for some politicians it was not a priority. Well, at least it's ready now.


----------



## rakcancer

Deo said:


> *More...*


Thanks for update Deo. This is short expressway but very unusual in polish reality. We still don't have many urban expressways. This one looks very nice. When is an opening day?


----------



## kmieciu

*A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl _ Interchange Świecko - Interchange Rzepin*

A2 Interchange Świecko - Interchange Rzepin





*A2 at night*

Interchange Rzepin 30.11/01.12






















































Interchange Torzym


















Toll Plaza Tarnawa


----------



## Verso

Was the A2 motorway opened from Świecko to Rzepin or to Nowy Tomyśl? Why are both of them being mentioned?


----------



## [email protected]

Verso said:


> Was the A2 motorway opened from Świecko to Rzepin or to Nowy Tomyśl? Why are both of them being mentioned?


It was opened from Świecko to Nowy Tomyśl where the A2 ended up to now.


----------



## TheFlyPL

Verso said:


> Was the A2 motorway opened from Świecko to Rzepin or to Nowy Tomyśl? Why are both of them being mentioned?


They are mentiond both because first the Świecko - Rzepiń stretch was opend and 12h later the wole section. :cheers:


----------



## kmieciu

Opening of A2 at Interchange Rzepin.






A2 at night, Interchange Rzepin - Interchange Torzym - Toll Plaza Tarnawa


----------



## Uppsala

[email protected] said:


> It was opened from Świecko to Nowy Tomyśl where the A2 ended up to now.


And that means there are motorway all the way from Łódź, Konin and Poznań to Berlin. :cheers:


----------



## Rusonaldo




----------



## Blaskovitz

Newest!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

So. Completions left this year:

* A1/A2 interchange Stryków
* A1 north of Gliwice
* S6 Nowogard
* S14 Pabianice
* S74 Kielce


----------



## jeremiash

S14 is delayed by about 4 months, thus the opening has been moved in time. Completion dates. Interchange Stryków is almost completed, but i don't know what the precise status is atm.


----------



## mcarling

What happened to the S17 in Warsaw? Was environmental approval cancelled? Expired?


----------



## Agnette

Blaskovitz said:


> Newest!
> Image


Great job!
Just two questions, first about Serock bypass (don't see it on the map), second about the new section of A2 (why it's white, not yellow?).


----------



## Halfpipesaur

^^
1: Serock Bypass is not marked as expressway. It has 100 km/h speed limit.
2: White colour means the motorway is toll free.


----------



## GROBIN

What is "ZiZ" on the map legend ? (Przetarg ZiZ, umowa ZiZ)


----------



## jeremiash

ZiZ is design-build, so the company first designs the stretch themselves, then they build it. The pink color, signed as "umowa ziz" means that that stretch is still in the designing phase. Przetarg means tender, umowa means contract.


----------



## Uppsala

Blaskovitz said:


>


When I see this map I can see one interesting thing. It can be possible to go from Berlin to Kaliningrad only on motorway or similar. When the A1 from Toruń to Stryków is open it is possible to use the A2 from Germany and the take A1 to Gdańsk. Later when the S22 is finished it is possible to take S7 from Gdańsk to Elbląg. And from Elbląg the S22 to Kaliningrad. 

Yes I know, this is not logic. It's only something for motorway fans like us. I know that. But it makes Kaliningrad to a part of the European motorway network at last. 

And this can even be better. The S5 is going to make this even better. And if they rebuild the DK22 from Elbląg to A1 this could be a quite good way to use if someone want to go from for example Berlin to Kaliningrad in the future. 

But I dont know if there is any plans to rebuilding that part of DK22 from A1 to Elbląg to a motorway/Expressway called A22 or S22 there. But i think that can be a good idea.

So maybe in the future it is possible to go from Berlin to Kaliningrad at German A12, Polish A2, A1, S7 and S22. And later maybe at German A12, Polish A2, S5, A1 and S22. This could be a quite good route.


----------



## Verso

TheFlyPL said:


> They are mentiond both because first the Świecko - Rzepiń stretch was opend and 12h later the wole section. :cheers:


Oh, it's clear now, thanks.


----------



## Switek

Uppsala said:


> When I see this map I can see one interesting thing. It can be possible to go from Berlin to Kaliningrad only on motorway or similar. When the A1 from Toruń to Stryków is open it is possible to use the A2 from Germany and the take A1 to Gdańsk. Later when the S22 is finished it is possible to take S7 from Gdańsk to Elbląg. And from Elbląg the S22 to Kaliningrad.
> 
> Yes I know, this is not logic. It's only something for motorway fans like us. I know that. But it makes Kaliningrad to a part of the European motorway network at last.
> 
> And this can even be better. The S5 is going to make this even better. And if they rebuild the DK22 from Elbląg to A1 this could be a quite good way to use if someone want to go from for example Berlin to Kaliningrad in the future.
> 
> But I dont know if there is any plans to rebuilding that part of DK22 from A1 to Elbląg to a motorway/Expressway called A22 or S22 there. But i think that can be a good idea.
> 
> So maybe in the future it is possible to go from Berlin to Kaliningrad at German A12, Polish A2, A1, S7 and S22. And later maybe at German A12, Polish A2, S5, A1 and S22. This could be a quite good route.


The main idea of highways and expressways network in Poland is to connect main Polish cities, thus S22 is not even planned.


----------



## GROBIN

mcarling said:


> What happened to the S17 in Warsaw? Was environmental approval cancelled? Expired?


As far as I remember, there has been a problem with S17 because ... they found a rare kind of fish (or frog?) there a couple of months ago :bash:


----------



## Blaskovitz

Switek said:


> The main idea of highways and expressways network in Poland is to connect main Polish cities, thus S22 is not even planned.


But we have plans about DK22 2x2 GP Class like Malbork bypass


----------



## Switek

^^

Fine. There's no too many good roads in Poland


----------



## ionutz_08

can you translate the map? for me who doesn't speak polish it's a little bit hard to understand it. thanks in advance


----------



## earth intruder

Green - Constructed
Red -Under construction
Pink - Singed, in project.
Yellow -Tender
Blue - Environmental decision


----------



## Andrzej_3598

*Legend*



ionutz_08 said:


> can you translate the map? for me who doesn't speak polish it's a little bit hard to understand it. thanks in advance


You have translation here: http://sites.google.com/site/sscplas/. I am updating this website every quarter. You may see quaterly progress and yearly progress of A and S roads construction in Poland.


----------



## Agnette

Halfpipesaur said:


> ...2: White colour means the motorway is toll free.


Thanx, but I see PPO near Rzepin? :dunno:


----------



## toonczyk

The new stretch of A2 is going to be toll free until 31.05.2012. Special offer to attract more drivers


----------



## mcarling

GROBIN said:


> As far as I remember, there has been a problem with S17 because ... they found a rare kind of fish (or frog?) there a couple of months ago :bash:


So ... what happens next? Will they try to find a new route? Will they change the design of the road to reduce the impact on the fish or frogs?


----------



## Agnette

One more question about A2. I don't understand the map (little bit too much dates on it) when stretch Stryków-Konotopa (A2) will be opened?


----------



## Switek

^^ Here you have an alternative map with deadlines of particular sections. http://ssc-mapa.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/mapka-igorsel.png 

According to it three sections are planned to be completed on June 2012, two others on October 2012..


----------



## [email protected]

Agnette said:


> One more question about A2. I don't understand the map (little bit too much dates on it) when stretch Stryków-Konotopa (A2) will be opened?


It has been divided into five (5) separate sections which are simultaneously being built. It is expected that the A2 will be completed, and will reach Konotopa (Warsaw) in June 2012.


----------



## Sienioslaw

new part of A2(watch in HD) 


Rusonaldo said:


> Przerobiłem tamten film i teraz z muzą jest ok


----------



## ABRob

Switek said:


> http://ssc-mapa.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/mapka-igorsel.png


I love this map.
But what does the dark-grey roads mean? And these small green, yellow,... shields? And the croses on some sections?

And why is there a S16?


----------



## Blaskovitz

^^It's DK16 and DK15.


----------



## MajKeR_

These dark grey roads are bypasses. Crossings are only on uncollision roads which aren't planned as expressways or motorways - colour of crossing means the same as colour of whole stretch by expressways and motorways (red - u/c, blue - enviromental decision... and so on). Rectangular points concern only bypasses of places near their situations:

- white envelope - second stage of tender
- yellow envelope - opening of cost offers
- green envelope - best offer is chosen
- yellow rectangle - tender for designing
- red rectangle - designing is in progress
- green rectangle - designing is done
- black and yellow rectangle - application for building permission is done
- black and green rectangle - building permission is issued.


----------



## bebe.2006

Here we go:


JacYk said:


>





JacYk said:


>


----------



## mcarling

I expect the newly opened A2 between Słubice and Nowy Tomyśl to manifest measurable induced demand all the way from Berlin to Warsaw.


----------



## bewu1

ABRob said:


> I love this map.
> But what does the dark-grey roads mean? And these small green, yellow,... shields? And the croses on some sections?
> 
> And why is there a S16?


The crosses on some sections mean that these sections are supended (till 2014-2020 EU funding perspective) because lack of moneys.


----------



## Blaskovitz

This is part of new nothern bypass of Żywiec, opened last month, *DW946*


----------



## Uppsala

bebe.2006 said:


> Here we go:


How long part are they doing that job at the A6?


----------



## bebe.2006

At first 2,2 km.

It's the road S3 from km 90+265 to km 92+500. After the rebuilding this part will be marked A6.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Sienioslaw said:


> new part of A2(watch in HD)


How many ecoducts are there on this stretch? About 15?

Also; will they upgrade the final section from Świecko to the German border to a motorway? It's currently signed as Droga Krajowa.


----------



## kmieciu

ChrisZwolle said:


> How many ecoducts are there on this stretch? About 15?
> 
> Also; will they upgrade the final section from Świecko to the German border to a motorway? It's currently signed as Droga Krajowa.


source



> Environment friendly motorway
> 
> The A2 Motorway Świecko – Nowy Tomyśl belongs to the largest currently implemented ecological projects in Europe.
> • 25 per cent of the budget correspond to environmental protection costs;
> • 85 per cent of the motorway to the German border crosses forest areas, including the sites protected under the Natura 2000 programme;
> • *Along the 106 kilometres section almost 200 crossings and culverts for large and small animals were built;*
> • Every 2 kilometres of the motorway emergency roadside telephones and environmental protection equipment are placed;
> • The protection programme includes the monitoring of plant and animal habitats, ornithological monitoring of bat breeding grounds and beaver habitats, ant-hills protection and amphibians and reptiles rescue programme.


----------



## mappero

How come radio and tv says in the longest stretch of motorway in Poland? Why they say is the first motorway connection in between Poland and Germany!? Warsaw point of view... Capitol city without motorway


----------



## Uppsala

mappero said:


> How come radio and tv says in the longest stretch of motorway in Poland? Why they say is the first motorway connection in between Poland and Germany!? Warsaw point of view... Capitol city without motorway


A2 is *not* the first motorway connection in between Poland and Germany. There are 4 motorway connection from Poland to Germany now: A6, A2, A18 and A4. A6 and A18 are very old ones. A4 is quite new and A2 is the last one. 

And yes I know A18 is signed as DK18 but it is built like a motorway and they are going to sign it like a motorway when A18 is repaired.


----------



## mappero

^^ Yes I know that  Since ages I travel by A18 and A4 even before Poland join EU.
What I wrote I've heard in Polish Radio from Warsaw...


----------



## Luki_SL

ChrisZwolle said:


> How many ecoducts are there on this stretch? About 15?


There are 17 big ecoducts over the motorway, rest of them )almost 200 is under the road(crossings and culverts for large and small animals were built), it`s from Kmieciu post


----------



## GROBIN

mappero said:


> ^^ Yes I know that  Since ages I travel by A18 and A4 even before Poland join EU.
> What I wrote I've heard in Polish Radio from Warsaw...


When will they upgrade the Southern lanes of the DK18 to a motorway ? Is there any date ? Driving from Olszyna to Krzywa is a terrible pain-in-the-neck. Especially when your car has hard shock absorbers like mine! :lol::nuts:

P.S.: IMHO, instead of signing *Świecko (PL)(D) *on the A2, they should sign *Słubice (PL)(D) *as the latter is the biggest town before Germany & the first is just a village without importance just aside of it ... Even for local tourism it'd be more interesting !


----------



## Luki_SL

GROBIN said:


> When will they upgrade the Southern lanes of the DK18 to a motorway ? Is there any date ? Driving from Olszyna to Krzywa is a terrible pain-in-the-neck. Especially when your car has hard shock absorbers like mine! :lol::nuts:


The A18 suthern lanes are said to be upgraded after 2014. There are no official dates in spite of crisis. It`s possible that the southern lanes of A18 will be close in future, because of bad condition.


----------



## mcarling

GROBIN said:


> IMHO, instead of signing *Świecko (PL)(D) *on the A2, they should sign *Słubice (PL)(D) * ....


I agree.



Luki_SL said:


> It`s possible that the southern lanes of A18 will be close in future, because of bad condition.


In my opinion, closing the southern lanes of A18 would be a mistake. I would prefer to see one lane closed for renovation while the other stays open.


----------



## GROBIN

^^ 

I doubt the EU will let the Southern lanes of the DK18 in its current shape & I assume the A18 will be fully on service as it's a vital road between Berlin & Wrocław / Katowice / Kraków. I see it more becoming a toll motorway ...


----------



## mcarling

I agree that the A18 is a likely candidate for funding in the EU's 2014-2020 budget.


----------



## Marbur66

GROBIN said:


> P.S.: IMHO, instead of signing *Świecko (PL)(D) *on the A2, they should sign *Słubice (PL)(D) *as the latter is the biggest town before Germany & the first is just a village without importance just aside of it ... Even for local tourism it'd be more interesting !


I noticed that too. Polish road signs are funny sometimes, because the distance signs will show 2-3 cities/towns up ahead, and one of them is often no more than an insignificant village located about 500kms away. :nuts: I guess they have a policy of noting border towns, no matter how tiny they are??


----------



## Janek0

Marbur66 said:


> I guess they have a policy of noting border towns, no matter how tiny they are??


Exactly, as the last town on the road... even if there is no interchange. :bash:


----------



## Sponsor

...


----------



## bleetz

They are not signing "the town", they are signing Swiecko as a border crossing which is logical enough. People don't care about Swiecko, they care about where they are going to cross the border if they follow the road and they will do so at the Swiecko crossing and that's what they put on the signs.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

And if you want to use another border crossing than the road you managed to get on, you won't finy any. 

These border crossing villages make no sense in this era of Schengen. Especially not from across the entire country, I can understand from the last major town, but from 500 - 800 km away?


----------



## Switek

^^ It depends... I can agree with your logic but Polish regulations are as they are.


----------



## mcarling

Switek said:


> Polish regulations are as they are.


These regulations mandating bad signage can and should be fixed.


----------



## Switek

It's just a matter of time I guess.


----------



## mcarling

I would agree that there are higher priorities than improving the regulation of road signs regarding border towns, but it's easy and the costs (including opportunity costs) are very low. I hope we don't have to wait many years for better signs.


----------



## GROBIN

I wouldn't agree to say Poland has a bad signage. On the contrary, my point is: it is sometimes way too precise! Even if I agree that people are interested in the last point of the country.

Ex.: why sign, when entering Poland from Lithuania in Ogrodniki on DK16 (maybe it changed since 2003 , but there are lots of other examples like that) "*Dolna Grupa*" ? "*Grudziądz*" is more than enough.

Signing *Słubice (PL)(D)* from Poznań on (or even from Warsaw on) would be O.K. Why not signing *Świecko (PL)(D)* only from the Słubice A2 interchange ?
Same for *Jędrzychowice (PL)(D)* instead of* Zgorzelec (PL)(D)* on A4; and for *Olszyna (PL)(D) *on DK18 – why not sign *Chociebuż/Cottbus/Chośebuz (D)* ?  (I know _*ChrisZwolle*_ won’t really like that trilingual Polish/German/Sorbian one ), but maybe I will talk more about this on the "bilingual signs" thread


----------



## Strzala

Today were signed 2 contracts for Lublin bypass (S12/S17/S19 ) with Dragados so soon we'll have 69 kilometres S12/S17 under construction in lubelskie voivodeship:banana::cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ You left out the best part: deadline is 24 months (December 2013). Really fast for a completely new motorway. Often you see 24 months for small projects (like interchanges), but not so much for entirely new routes like these


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

Also, the tender for extension of Trasa Armii Krajowej in Warsaw was announced.


----------



## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ You left out the best part: deadline is 24 months (December 2013). Really fast for a completely new motorway. Often you see 24 months for small projects (like interchanges), but not so much for entirely new routes like these


I actually think this is a right thing to do, usually those deadlines are ridiculously long. If everything goes as expected, we'll have a new benchmark soon: A2 Warszawa-Łódź will have been built in about 20 months (construction has started in fall of 2010).


----------



## Strzala

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ You left out the best part: deadline is 24 months (December 2013). Really fast for a completely new motorway. Often you see 24 months for small projects (like interchanges), but not so much for entirely new routes like these


Hmm it's a standard deadline for new build motorways and expressways in Poland. In many cases contractors finish all works before deadline (18-22 months) ,especially when winter is warm like in this year.


----------



## Yamamoto

Jakub Warszauer said:


> Also, the tender for extension of Trasa Armii Krajowej in Warsaw was announced.


In which area/where is the tender for?

Personally I still dream about an S7, but probably not for this Christmas.


----------



## mcarling

Strzala said:


> Today were signed 2 contracts for Lublin bypass (S12/S17/S19 ) with Dragados so soon we'll have 69 kilometres S12/S17 under construction in lubelskie voivodeship.


I look forward to seeing red replace yellow on the next map.


----------



## toonczyk

Yamamoto said:


> In which area/where is the tender for?


The blue section of S8 on this map, between already finished part in the west and the part U/C right now in the east:
http://ssc-mapa.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/nowa-mapa.png

The biggest challenge is actually reconstruction of the bridge, since it's the bridge with highest traffic in Warsaw (and probably in Poland) with over 150k AADT in 2005.


----------



## Yamamoto

toonczyk said:


> The blue section of S8 on this map, between already finished part in the west and the part U/C right now in the east:
> http://ssc-mapa.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/nowa-mapa.png
> 
> The biggest challenge is actually reconstruction of the bridge, since it's the bridge with highest traffic in Warsaw (and probably in Poland) with over 150k AADT in 2005.


Thanks, that makes perfect sense. That stretch is also quite poor, compared to the very nice new S8 parts. Obviously it going to take years before the tender turn into nice new asphalt.


----------



## rakcancer

I thought this part of S8 will be reconstructed along with construction of S7 towards Lomianki because it would be easier to work on both at the same time. BTW does anyone knows how S7 will be connected to S8 via Wislostrada or newly designed northbound route?


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

Yamamoto said:


> Thanks, that makes perfect sense. That stretch is also quite poor, compared to the very nice new S8 parts. Obviously it going to take years before the tender turn into nice new asphalt.


We recived huge EU-help for reconstruction of S8 and have to spend it till 2015.


----------



## mcarling

Jakub Warszauer said:


> We recived huge EU-help for reconstruction of S8 and have to spend it till 2015.


Is the EU money specifically for the S8 _within Warsaw_ or for _any part of_ the S8?


Klukas said:


> Could someone tell me which would be the best (shortest in hours) road route to reach Poznan from Zagreb, Croatia (Euro 2012). If I got it right there is no direct motorway connection to Poznan from Checz/Slovakia. Thank you!


Go via either Vienna or Bratislava to Brno, then to Gliwice, then to Wrocław, then Poznań. The new D1/A1 motorway at the CZ/PL border should open before Euro 2012. A significant section of the S5 under construction between Wrocław and Poznań is due to be completed in October 2012 and which I guess will probably be opened temporarily on a limited basis for Euro 2012. The trip should take about 10-11 hours, but there could be extra traffic because of Euro 2012.


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

mcarling said:


> Is the EU money specifically for the S8 _within Warsaw_ or for _any part of_ the S8?


This particular grant is for S8 in Warsaw. First phase of this project is under way (right bank of Vistula, section Modlińska - Piłsudskiego in Marki). Second is the tender announced (left bank of Vistula + bridge, section Powązkowska - Modlińska).


----------



## mcarling

Jakub Warszauer said:


> This particular grant is for S8 in Warsaw.


That was what I suspected. Thanks. I'm looking forward to completion of the S8 all the way from Warsaw to Białystok.


----------



## Nowax

[A1] Pyrzowice - Gorzyczki (CZ) photos = RadoslawJ :cheers:


----------



## Chris80678

I wonder if construction is as advanced at the other end of the A1?
i.e Maciejów - Piekary Śląskie as it is supposed to open before the end of December 2011 :lol: 
The construction photos on the website are always out of date whenever I look


----------



## Surel

Nice update, thx for the photos, are you sure it is actually Lysá Hora on the picture? But yeah what else than Beskydy it could be... Well its a lucky shot actually, you dont se Beskydy even from Ostrava every day... I am so looking forward to this opening, finally all the way on motorway, almost from one house door to another.


----------



## ufonut

Chris80678 said:


> I wonder if construction is as advanced at the other end of the A1?
> i.e Maciejów - Piekary Śląskie as it is supposed to open before the end of December 2011 :lol:
> The construction photos on the website are always out of date whenever I look


----------



## kmieciu

*A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl*

A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl. From Germany, A12 Interchange Frakfurt (Oder)-Mitte to Poland, Interchange Nowy Tomyśl.


----------



## Chris80678

Chris80678 said:


> I wonder if construction is as advanced at the other end of the A1?
> i.e Maciejów - Piekary Śląskie as it is supposed to open before the end of December 2011 :lol:
> The construction photos on the website are always out of date whenever I look


Thanks for the new photos ufonut. Is there an opening date yet for this stretch of motorway?


----------



## kmieciu

*A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl*

A2 Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl. From Interchange Nowy Tomyśl (DK92-DW307 roundabout) to Germany, A12 Interchange Frakfurt (Oder)-Mitte.


----------



## Uppsala

How is it going now with the A2 from Łódź to Warszawa?


----------



## toonczyk

Uppsala said:


> How is it going now with the A2 from Łódź to Warszawa?


So far so good. They are working like crazy. Actually probably the biggest problem right now is keeping up with supplies (gravel, sand, concrete etc.), apparently the railways used to transport resources to the construction site are working at their full capacity. We are very lucky this year with the weather, it's incredibly warm and dry for this time of year (but it's probably about to end any day now, also it's possible the winter will hold until late April, so we'll see). But right now it looks very much like a possibility that it's going to be "drivable" in June. Which is quite incredible to be honest. Try to spot the difference (look at the dates):


----------



## rakcancer

^^ Good progress. Is this section built previously by Chinese company?


----------



## toonczyk

^^ Yes, this is from section A (near Łódź), previously built by COVEC, now by Eurovia.


----------



## Luki_SL

From: http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/en/a/10275...ction-Powazkowska-junction-Modlinska-junction


> A tender for the continuation of designing and rebuilding the S8 road, section Powązkowska - Marki (Piłsudskiego Street). Stage 2, section Powązkowska junction - Modlińska junction
> Applications may be submitted till 9th January 2012. The date of project accomplishment is 27 months from the date of concluding the agreement.
> 
> The order covers in particular:
> 
> - reception of cross section of the expressway at the segment of "Powązkowska" junction
> 
> - "Wisłostrada" junction with two one-way pavements (each one with three lanes) and an emergency lane together with the construction or renovation of engineering objects,
> 
> - reception of cross section of the expressway at the segment of "Wisłostrada" junction
> 
> - "Modlińska" junction with two one-way pavements (each one with 2 lanes) without an emergency lane with separated roads of common distribution at the section of "Wisłostrada" junction
> 
> - "Modlińska" - reconstruction of the object over the Vistula River that is the Grota-Roweckiego Bridge
> 
> - making it possible to construct 5 lanes in each direction (two for the S road and three for local traffic), adjusting to the current traffic of the Ministry of Transport and Maritime Economy regulation, and adjustment to the pedestrian and bicycle traffic,
> 
> - rebuilding of junctions: the segment of "Powązkowska" junction: rebuilding of the crossroads with traffic lights with the renovation of flyovers, strengthening/rebuilding of the surface, the section of "Broniewskiego" junction: rebuilding of the crossroads with traffic lights together with the renovation of flyovers,
> 
> - strengthening/rebuilding of the surface, the segment of "Marymoncka" junction: construction and rebuilding of a one-lane link with the construction of an engineering object,
> 
> strengthening/rebuilding of the surface of the remaining links and streets of the junction together with the renovation of engineering objects, the segment of "Wisłostrada" junction: rebuilding of links together with the rebuilding of engineering objects,
> 
> strengthening/rebuilding of the surface of the remaining links and streets of the junction together with the renovation of engineering objects, the segment of "Modlińska" junction: rebuilding of a one-lane link together with engineering objects,
> 
> - strengthening/rebuilding of the surface of the remaining links and streets of the junction together with the renovation or rebuilding of engineering objects, rebuilding of traffic lights,
> 
> - rebuilding of distributor roads linking the junctions of Trasa Armii Krajowej into collections of junctions: Powązkowska – Broniewskiego – Marymoncka and Wisłostrada - Modlińska including: strengthening/rebuilding of the surfaces of distributor roads with the correction of the route of the road in the region of links with main roads of the expressway and crossroads,
> 
> 
> 
> - construction and rebuilding of remaining roads:
> 
> - construction and rebuilding of pavements for pedestrians, routes for pedestrians and cyclists and cycle lanes together with ramps,
> 
> - construction and rebuilding of the technical infrastructure, that is the rebuilding of external facilities,
> 
> - construction of acoustic screens, - construction, rebuilding, and renovation of the remaining engineering objects,
> 
> - other rebuilding and demolitions,
> 
> - cutting down the existing greenery,
> 
> - planting the area with greenery.


From: http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/en/a/10273...n-ring-road-in-the-S17-chain-may-be-initiated



> The construction of Lublin ring road in the S17 chain may be initiated
> 
> The construction of two segments of the S17 expressway, which are the north-east ring road of Lublin, will cost approximately PLN 1.1 billion. A Spanish company Dragados will be responsible for their construction. The agreements that have been signed today closed the tender procedure for the construction of almost 67 km long S17 section from the junction in Sielce near Kurów to the Piask ring road.
> 
> The Spanish company offered the best price for the construction of two S17 segments between the junctions: Dąbrowica - Lubartów and Lubartów – Witosa, of the total length of almost 23 km. A two-pavement expressway with three lanes between the junctions Dąbrowica and Lubartów (on the common route of three expressways S12, S17, and S19) and two lanes between the junctions Lubartów and Witosa (with a reserve for the third lane). Over a 3 km long section of the national road no. 19 from Lublin in the direction of Lubartów (a two-pavement road with two lanes) will be rebuilt. 51 sections of access roads (with the total length of over 48 km) will be constructed for the purposes of local traffic. The investment requires the construction of 30 engineering objects, including an almost 1 km long flyover running over the valley of the Bystrzyca Jakubowicka in the vicinity of the area Natura 2000 that is valuable from the environmental point of view. Over 24 km of acoustic screens will be constructed. The contractor will have 24 months from the date of signing the contract to open the route for drivers' use.
> 
> 
> 
> More information on the section between the Dąbrowica and Lubartów junctions
> 
> More information on the section between the Lubartów and Witosa junctions
> 
> 
> 
> The most important information on S17 at the section Kurów – Lublin – Piaski:
> 
> 
> 
> The construction of 66.8 km of the expressway has been divided into 5 contracts. A two-pavement road with two lanes for each direction and a reserve for the third one (between the Dąbrowica and Lubartów junctions in the ultimate configuration with three lanes) will be constructed. It will be possible to access the expressway through 11 separated junctions: Sielce, Kurów, Przybysławice, Bogucin, Dąbrowica, Jakubowice, Lubartów, Włodawa, Mełgiewska, Witosa, and Świdnik.
> 
> 
> 
> The scope of works includes the construction of:
> 
> - over 69 km of expressway (including all links and a section of S19) and over 11 km of GP and P-class roads
> 
> - 79 engineering objects
> 
> - 66 passageways for animals (large, medium, and small-sized)
> 
> - over 130 km of access roads for the purposes of local traffic
> 
> - over 60 km of acoustic screens
> 
> - 4 rest areas
> 
> 
> 
> Time of accomplishment - 24 months from signing an agreement for each contract.
> 
> 
> 
> Let us remind that the construction of the S17 expressway Kurów – Lublin – Piaski is co-financed by the European Union from the Cohesion Fund within the Operational Programme “Infrastructure and Environment.” The value of the project amounts to PLN 3 561 958 989, while the EU subsidy amounts to PLN 2 618 844 965 (85% of eligible costs).


----------



## Blaskovitz

*Famous MA532 on A1*




















Of course *04.12.2011*

*
28th September 2011*









*6th December 2011*


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A2 now visible in Google Earth:


----------



## winn^




----------



## RipleyLV

Warsaw residents can screw Google maps, cause Yandex has now the latest images! 
http://maps.yandex.ru/-/CFE8bF~5


----------



## PLH

This site is even better:

http://www.zumi.pl/,Warszawa,,20.9476958,52.2550498,2,1,namapie.html


----------



## RipleyLV

Quality is astonishing, thanks! But Yandex has more recent image though. :colgate:


----------



## Janek0

RipleyLV said:


> Warsaw residents can screw Google maps, cause Yandex has now the latest images!
> http://maps.yandex.ru/-/CFE8bF~5


Not only Warsaw - Cracow and some other sites too. :eek2:

Kraków bypass: http://maps.yandex.ru/-/CFEwjF6a 
7/79 Kraków: http://maps.yandex.ru/-/CFEwbGIl 
S7 Kraków: http://maps.yandex.ru/-/CFEwvS~x 
A4 Rzeszów: http://maps.yandex.ru/-/CFE1IZZa
A4 Rozbórz: http://maps.yandex.ru/-/CFE1f2Lz
A4 Jarosław: http://maps.yandex.ru/-/CFE1bM-3
Jarosław bypass: http://maps.yandex.ru/-/CFE1UY2X
A4 Radymno: http://maps.yandex.ru/-/CFE1ePka
A4 Korczowa: http://maps.yandex.ru/-/CFE1mN09


----------



## LMB

RipleyLV said:


> Quality is astonishing, thanks! But Yandex has more recent image though. :colgate:


You're overestimating the ability to decipher (let alone read fluently) the Cyrillic in Poland nowadays.


----------



## mr.cool

Can anyone give me an optimistic view on when we could see a tender for the S17 Warsaw-Kurow route being applied and then later reconstructed? This is the main one that I use when I go on holiday to see my family!


----------



## mcarling

mr.cool said:


> Can anyone give me an optimistic view on when we could see a tender for the S17 Warsaw-Kurow route being applied and then later reconstructed? This is the main one that I use when I go on holiday to see my family!


The last several kilometers are due to open in March 2013. The rest of it is likely to be funded by the EU in their 2014-2020 budget.


----------



## Nowax

[S7] Gdańsk - South Bypass (photos - Papaj)


----------



## [email protected]

The Gdańsk bypass is impressive!


----------



## mjarski

[email protected] said:


> The Gdańsk bypass is impressive!


Which one? West or south?


----------



## Switek

mjarski said:


> Which one? West or south?


Look at post #7328.


----------



## [email protected]

Switek said:


> Look at post #7328.


Yup, that one! LoL


----------



## mjarski

Switek said:


> Look at post #7328.


I know. There was a small smile at the end.
The point is there is more than one bypass in Gdansk.


----------



## Rusonaldo




----------



## Chris80678

Which stretch of the A2 is this? Stryków-Konotopa?


----------



## PLH

No, Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl.


----------



## Nowax

[A1] Pyrzowice - Gorzyczki (CZ) photos - noah_pl :cheers:


----------



## mdhookey

Speaking of Google Maps, I just noticed today that S3 is now shown from A6 to Gorzow. It took a long time for that to be marked. I wonder how long it will take for A2 to show up, especially with the Euro 2012 coming up soon.


----------



## Blaskovitz

^^ And S8 in Warsaw...

So, we must waiting for parts of A2, A1, A8, S69, S11, S7... etc


----------



## Agnette

^^ The better/faster way is to send your report to TeleAtlas:

http://mapinsight.teleatlas.com/mapfeedback/index.php?Language=en


----------



## GROBIN

2025 shall be very late ! They should at least make an S46 as a single carriageway with a 100 km/h limit ...


----------



## Sasza

^^
Look at much we must construct. There a lot of roads need to be build faster.


----------



## Clash_tekin

GROBIN said:


> ^^
> 
> the most horrible road I've ever driven in Poland (in terms of asphalt quality & wideness, traffic volumes & average speed) was the DK-46 Opole-Lubliniec-Częstochowa. They should really do something there !


Now it is much better.


----------



## mcarling

GROBIN said:


> 2025 shall be very late ! They should at least make an S46 as a single carriageway with a 100 km/h limit ...


If I had 1,000,000,000,000 euro, I would build it for you, but I would complete the S7 first. :lol:


----------



## Warsawbynight

Clash_tekin said:


> Now it is much better.


Now S-46 Opole-Częstochowa is almost in perfect condition. I can't understand anyone complaining about the pavement or anything else; maybe that it's not a proper motorway, but anyway it's a real pleasure driving it nowadays


----------



## kalle_sg

^^ There is no such thing as S46. Never was and never will be (according to the current plans anyway). And the road 46 is not even remotely a "proper motorway".


----------



## drowningman666

I think that the biggest problem with DK 46 is that it is totally inadequate to the traffic that it holds. It's mostly narrow, curvy and passes thru many villages, never ending trucks overtaking is a nightmare over there


----------



## Sasza

So use combination of A4/DK1 instead.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

You advise people to take a 100 kilometer detour?


----------



## MajKeR_

It's possible if they must choose the "fast" route, because, for their own reason, smooth and little crowded DK is too unconfortable for them.


----------



## GROBIN

^^

@*ChrisZwolle*, *Sasza*, *drowningman666* 
- each time I drive from Warsaw to the Nysa region, I drive through the Katowice agglomeration. Longer distance, but much more secure & less stressing.

But I agree with *mcarling* fully - S7 must be finished first ! Just as A3, S8 from A1 to Syców and S17 Warsaw - Lublin. Those are roads desperately needing to be widened. If it shall be toll motorways instead of free expressways, then so be it. The lives of thousands of people has no price ...


----------



## mcarling

GROBIN said:


> I agree with *mcarling* fully - S7 must be finished first ! Just as A3, S8 from A1 to Syców and S17 Warsaw - Lublin. Those are roads desperately needing to be widened.


I would say the S8 should be a priority all the way through Warsaw at least to Ostrów Mazowiecka, but I think the S7 is more urgent -- even though I personally use the S8 more. Anyway, I don't want to sound like a whiner. I'm quite happy with the rate of recent progress. Every time I drive across Poland I find a route with a stretch of new highway that didn't exist the last time I drove across. That means taking a somewhat different route every time.


----------



## GROBIN

^^

True! :lol: But you know how it is: the more you have the more you want  A key to fast progress ?

P.S.: if these priorities were personal to me, I'd choose the A2, but it's already being built


----------



## mcarling

GROBIN said:


> if these priorities were personal to me, I'd choose the A2, but it's already being built


If I were making funding decisions on behalf of the Polish government, the A2 between Łódź and Warsaw would be my top priority, followed by the A1 between Toruń and Katowice, then the S7 between Warsaw and Kraków, and finally the S8 from Syców to Białystok. However, if I were making funding decisions on behalf of the EU, my top priority would the A1 to the CZ border, followed by the A4 to the UA border, the A18 (second profile), the S3 to the CZ border, and then the S61 to the LT border. Of course, many of these are already funded.


----------



## RipleyLV

The priority #1 in Poland should be the construction of an outer ring road for Warsaw in my freaking view. I guess most of you haven't traveled on DK50 and haven't seen heavy traffic in action, poor rounabouts in Góra Kalwaria and other crossings handling this massive flow, cause you closed down truck transit through Warsaw completely. And there isn't a proper detour in the Northern part for those who are coming from LT to Germany, you have to make several pointless turns, drive through several villages/towns, waste fuel at red lights in Legionowo town and so on. If I'm not mistaken, then Warsaw is the only capital in EU (with a population of 2 mio!), that has no proper ring road. Building A2 is meh, I've driven several times on it, it was always empty. Most peaople don't want to pay, so they use good old DK2 instead.


----------



## toonczyk

RipleyLV said:


> The priority #1 in Poland should be the construction of an outer ring road for Warsaw in my freaking view.


Unfortunately in Poles' perception, Warsaw is already overprivileged and we do not deserve a ring road. But whatever the reasoning, right now it is very unlikely S2 and S17 around Warsaw will be finished any time soon. Finishing S2 alone will cost over 1,5 billion EUR and that's just 19km of new road, while the same amount of money would buy 150-200km of expressway elsewhere. It's a tough political decision to spend so much money on the capital city.


----------



## Yamamoto

RipleyLV said:


> The priority #1 in Poland should be the construction of an outer ring road for Warsaw in my freaking view. I guess most of you haven't traveled on DK50 and haven't seen heavy traffic in action, poor rounabouts in Góra Kalwaria and other crossings handling this massive flow, cause you closed down truck transit through Warsaw completely. And there isn't a proper detour in the Northern part for those who are coming from LT to Germany, you have to make several pointless turns, drive through several villages/towns, waste fuel at red lights in Legionowo town and so on. If I'm not mistaken, then Warsaw is the only capital in EU (with a population of 2 mio!), that has no proper ring road. Building A2 is meh, I've driven several times on it, it was always empty. Most peaople don't want to pay, so they use good old DK2 instead.


I would certainly vote for an upgrade of the ring DK50/DK62 around Warsaw to expressroad or a complete new s-class ring. It has certainly improved, but the trucks does make it a bit of a pain. There has been some old plans for such a ring, but it is probably still in the drawer somewhere.

Personally I agree that the planning should try to work out corridors, especially to trigger some of the EU funds over the coming years. 

Does anyone know the current priorities for the road network?


----------



## toonczyk

Yamamoto said:


> Does anyone know the current priorities for the road network?


General strategy can be found here:
http://www.transport.gov.pl/files/0/1793723/Program20112015.pdf

A general list of priorities is on page 23. Attachment 1a (page 39-40) is a list of sections that are intended to be started as soon as possible, preferably not later than 2013. Attachment 2 (page 41-43) lists sections that are planned for "after 2013" (probably way after).


----------



## Yamamoto

toonczyk said:


> General strategy can be found here:
> http://www.transport.gov.pl/files/0/1793723/Program20112015.pdf
> 
> A general list of priorities is on page 23. Attachment 1a (page 39-40) is a list of sections that are intended to be started as soon as possible, preferably not later than 2013. Attachment 2 (page 41-43) lists sections that are planned for "after 2013" (probably way after).


Thanks, Toonczyk. That is interesting reading, and the priorities do not sounds overly ambitious (= it could actually happen). 

However, I am a little puzzled that both S1 and S2, as well as A1 and A2 are on the list.


----------



## GROBIN

Warsaw's outer bypass will be very hard to make - too many green areas nearby. Las Kabacki (South), Kampinoski Park Narodowy (West) & some forrest also in Eastern Warsaw. They'll certainly be very costly, but they'll be necessary.

About DK50: I prefer driving through Warsaw than driving through that road. It is just overcrowded ...

& to *mcarling* & *RipleyLV*: the S61 should really be a priority too as it shall be the only expressway/motorway connection with the Baltics ...


----------



## kmieciu

S19 bypass road of Kock and Wola Skromowska was opened yesterday.
One carriageway 8km long road, first marked expressway in Lublin voivodeship. Strabag finished construction 3 months before the contract completion date (4.4.2012)







Source


----------



## GROBIN

kmieciu said:


> S19 bypass road of Kock and Wola Skromowska was opened yesterday.
> One carriageway 8km long road, *first marked expressway in Lublin voivodeship*. Strabag finished construction 3 months before the contract completion date (4.4.2012)


Not quite. You forgot about the other S19 section in the Lublin voivodship - the Międzyrzec Podlaski bypass. 

How do traffic volumes look on that road ?


----------



## drag

new open road today is ring road of Nowogard S6 - 2x2 , 9,4km 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jzKnSthqTU&feature=player_embedded


----------



## GROBIN

Nice video !  P.S.: You should do it like this:





(P.S.: nice music )


----------



## GROBIN

A1 opened today between DK-88 & DK-94 in Silesia :cheers:



esce said:


> Dwa filmy nakręcone po 17:00 - niestety jakoś licha, więc nie bijcie.





akowolik86 said:


> ja też dodam od siebie odcinek Szałsza- DK88, jakieś pół godz. po otwarciu


----------



## michael_siberia

GROBIN said:


> Not quite. You forgot about the other S19 section in the Lublin voivodship - the Międzyrzec Podlaski bypass.


Międzyrzec Podlaski is not marked.


----------



## treichard

I see E75 signed along with A1 on the new section. 

Does this mean that E75 was rerouted so that it no longer follows S1 on the east side of Katowice? Or are there two E75s until much more of A1 is completed?


----------



## Luki_SL

^^There are two E75s in Silesian Voivodeship now


----------



## lukander

Another video from opened part of A1 (the new part is from 4:05)


----------



## MajKeR_

Oh, what a pride... Motorway directs to Tarnowskie Góry!


----------



## Chris80678

MajKeR_ said:


> Oh, what a pride... Motorway directs to Tarnowskie Góry!


And from April 2012 it will reach Katowice airport :cheers:


----------



## Luki_SL

^^And Polish border in Gorzyczki from the south


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yesterday was also the anniversary of 2 years of A1 in Silesia. The first section opened on December 23rd, 2009 to Belk. Time flies...


----------



## Chris80678

Luki_SL said:


> ^^And Polish border in Gorzyczki from the south


March 2012 for this section :cheers:


----------



## jtybinka

*expressways*

Yesterday I was going in taxi from Nijmegen to Eindhoven
using motorways (near Eindhoven we joined A2)

So I didn`t see much but I have the feeling
that Polish expressways easilly would be clasiffied
in Holland as motorways 

I even think that S3 expressway from Szczecin to Gorzow
has better standard then motorways between Nijmegen
and Eindhoven - especially better profiled curves

I don`t want to say anything wrong about good Dutch roads
but I want to say that standard of Polish expressways
is very high - it`s motorway standard


----------



## Sponsor

jtybinka said:


> I even think that S3 expressway from Szczecin to Gorzow
> has better standard then motorways between Nijmegen
> and Eindhoven - especially better profiled curves


Honestly I doubt that standard vary that much to make man be able to feel differences. 
Don't go to extremes. Polish espressways are not that super, the point is they usually go on flat areas with slight curves.

However, expressways are just weird slavic invention. It would be better to sign them as m'ways, set general limit to 120 km/h and increase it optionally on certain sections (I mean on official m'ways A1, A2, A4)


----------



## toonczyk

Sponsor said:


> However, expressways are just weird slavic invention.


Not really. Expressways are common all around the world, sometimes under different name (superstrada, Autowegen, autovias, Schnellstraße...).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

But there is only a network of them in central Europe. In other countries, expressways are often just urban, suburban or rural feeders to the motorway network, occasionally along longer sections (like France or Germany). 

However in Central Europe these expressways basically have the same function within the network as those that are actual motorways.


----------



## toonczyk

True. I think this causes unnecessary confusion among drivers, but it's just a matter of nomenclature. I just hope a day will come when we'll have a total reworking of motorway signs as well as rebranding of dual carriageway expressways into motorways.


----------



## jtybinka

Sponsor said:


> Don't go to extremes. Polish espressways are not that super, the point is they usually go on flat areas with slight curves.


Maybe my opinion is too extreme but the reason is that few months ago
I was driving S3 from Gorzow to Szczecin , I drove the whole section
with constant speed 140 km/h , didn`t slow down even one time.
Then I had to slow down on renewed A6 near Szczecin, theoretically
A6 has higher speed limit but in fact on S3 you can safely go faster
then on A6 (and I mean short renew part A6 , not the old concrete part)

On the way Nijmegen - Eindhoven , you have to slow down a little sometimes
on curves and in my opinion on S3 you can go faster

Area on the way from Gorzow to Szczecin is not that flat, I think the reason is that S3 is new
so it`s quite logic that new S3 can be better then 25 years old A2 in Holland


----------



## and802

igorlan said:


> You’re exaggerating, by the end of 2015 Poland will have had a quite reasonable A & S network ...


let me give you some examples ...

A1 between Piotrkow and Slask - non existing
you cannot go from North of Poland, even from the center of Poland to the South using modern road system.

another example is S3,
next one is S5
next one is S17

need more ? or maybe easier: could you show me any finished motorway/expressway from north to south in 2015. I mean finished.

next thing:
almost whole Poland "B" not connected to the motorway system (except South: A2 motorway)



igorlan said:


> ... but in my opinion most of visitors will appreciate that so much has been done instead of how much more still could be done. We could be only proud of the fact that in crisis times we’re still able to be building so many km of fast roads.


now forgive me my international collegues, but for me your impression is not the most important factor. how about Spain - the were doing something like 500 km a year. this is the score. (Chris de Zwolle, please correct my figures)




igorlan said:


> By comparison look at countries about the same size as Poland e.g. Romania, how many roads they build? They too are progressing but not as fast as we are. I would suggest you looking at the whole thing more optimistically instead of spotting only backwardness.


completely wrong assumption. why you chose Romania ? 
Romania is a hilly country, and Polish GNP is more than twice more than Romanian one. Romanian GNP per capita is also different ...
why not compare Hungary ? but then you feel shamed. 
all in all why to compare to anybody ? do not look at others and feel happy, just improve your own moves.



all in all I am not pesimistic - actually I am happy it goes as it is now... 
but what really worries me is that we do not have the long term plan for target motorway system with specific dates. all I can see (unless I am wrong) is a map of motorway system in 2020. but this is a very general plan, and if it does not have specific year for each section, then - for me - it is compelety useless or - if you prefer - politicans imagination/wishful thinking. 

remember I base my opinion on facts, I do not base my opinions on very general plans with no dates/attached to imaginated routes. I do not really take into consideration seriously opinions like: "If we have enough money, we will do it" or "if crisis is gone we will speed up the process". I am trying to tell you is that if we do not establish a national motorway program with reserved fundings in each annual national budget, than this is just worthless.
you see I have been following "polish motorway construction programme" for last 20 years in Poland, and you know what: in nineties I saw impressive road system as of 2000. now, I do not know your age, but in 2000 the road system was hmmm, not satisfactionary..., now I can see the same, only plans no real steps...

so only facts please, no wishful thinking


----------



## mcarling

^^
It is a fact that a huge portion of the money for building A/S roads in Poland comes from the EU. It is a fact that the Polish government doesn't know how much the EU will give for road building in 2014-2020. It is a fact that the Polish government doesn't know which specific roads the EU will fund in 2014-2020.


----------



## Lankosher

@ and802 - Well, you don’t need to make any effort to show me what is still missing by 2015 as I am entirely aware what is going on in this field. Like you I have been following this topic since early 90ties and in contradiction with you I am finding a tremendous progress in that matter. Only by the fact that I still can easily remember how my travel to Western Europe looked like at the end of 90ties and how it looks now. There is no question about neglectedness resulted from lack of general conceptual study especially in the 90ties but since Poland was chosen to co-host Euro, the initial national road program has been designed. Obviously realization this program primarily depends on economic condition, which we all know, we are not living in the safest times. I compared with Romania, as, let’s say we are much closer to compare with each other than with Spain which you referred to. Spain started building their road infrastructure far before any crisis was even imagined; we could say that presumably they are now paying their price due to their reckless politics in terms of spending too much public money and now their national debt is bigger by 11% then ours. Hungary? To be honest I don’t feel ashamed as there is no need to be, especially in the current context of their economic problems, again national debt bigger than ours by 26%. Besides it’s different scale, country is much smaller and it takes much fewer effort to create a good network. I will agree if Poland had started building roads 10 years earlier, we would have been in much more comfortable situation, however now we have to refer to current tough times I would primarily consider current economic conditions as this determines how much money we could spend on building and realizing the program. Most of the countries had to drastically reduce their infrastructural programs due to lack of funding. Also credits granted by commercial banks are not getting cheaper but rather get more expensive, therefore we can’t afford to stick to the motorway program as we wished to. 
Summarizing, I understand all what you say and mostly I agree, but especially in the current times, we could be proud that we are building that much, whereas others tighten their budgets and withdraw their plans.


----------



## kooba

Our government is widely criticized, but as a matter of fact, they keep finances quite stable on this rough time, and still manage to invest in infrastructure.

Just look at this map: http://stadiony.klszarak.org/scc_a_s.swf There will be two times more motorways in 2015, than in 2010, and almost three times more expressways (this future predicts count only roads with contracts already signed, so in reality it can look only better). If its not impressive, than I dont know what is.

Now we will witness big slow down in next few years, but it's because no one know how new UE budget will look like.


----------



## mr.cool

So what roads can anyone give an opinion of what will be contracted and signed in the 2014-2020 budget taken into account the current euro crisis...at the very least which roads will be most likely signed?


----------



## kooba

mr.cool said:


> So what roads can anyone give an opinion of what will be contracted and signed in the 2014-2020 budget taken into account the current euro crisis...at the very least which roads will be most likely signed?


This is pretty accurate map (but until we know new budget nothing is for sure):










Green - to be build untill 2015
Red - priorities for 2014-2020
Orange - reserved projects for 2014-2020
Blue - public-private partnership

A1 in PPP is now most doubtful, so there is possibility that it will be build in expense of some "priority" roads. In my opinion, but it's only mine it will be S5 Wrocław-Poznań.


----------



## mcarling

I guess the A18 and S61 are probably higher on the EU's priority list than on the PL government's priority list. We'll have to wait to find out. If the EU provide enough of the funding, PL will build them when the EU wants. It's difficult to refuse other people's money.


----------



## MajKeR_

Opening of Kielce bypass - actually S7:






28 years have gone


----------



## Vignole

Thanks for the video. It is very interesting.


----------



## DammianBB

MajKeR_ said:


> Opening of Kielce bypass - actually S7:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 28 years have gone


From the first seconds we can see the "crazy driver" :angel1:


----------



## seem

Guys what about S1 between Katowice and Bielsko - Biała? Now it is a dual carriageway if I am sure and it is quite busy, any chance they will rebuild it soon?


----------



## Janek0

According to official 2011-2015 plan, S1 Kosztowy-Bielsko Biała will be built after 2013.


----------



## Blaskovitz




----------



## mcarling

Now five sections out for tender. Are any more contract signings expected any time soon?


----------



## GROBIN

One film from the Eastern A2 section.
The second one shows how to go from one of the A2 exits (the one from which the first movie started) to the town of Mińsk Mazowiecki.



daj_pan_spokoj said:


> No coś Ty - w miejscu, o którym piszesz jest na pewno o wiele porządniej
> 
> Dwa filmy z A2:
> 
> Przejazd od WA15 do węzła Arynów (tak wiem, jeszcze nie dopuszczona do ruchu...)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Przejazd z węzła Arynów do Mińska Maz. Pod koniec uchwyciłem przykładne zawodowego kierowcy..


----------



## mr.cool

Hows the winter weather holding up in Poland? Have we managed to see construction still taking place during the season yet?


----------



## Barciur

There's been a lot, because there really hasn't been much winter at all. Barely any snow and nice and warm (for the season anyway) temperatures mostof the time.


----------



## G0KU

and802 said:


> maybe easier: could you show me any finished motorway/expressway from north to south in 2015. I mean finished.


A4.


----------



## Kuras77

and802 said:


> maybe easier: could you show me any finished motorway/expressway *from north to south* in 2015. I mean finished.





G0KU said:


> A4.


:nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A4 runs north - south on the west side of Kraków


----------



## kooba

CrazySerb said:


> Though, I`m glad if the situation has improved this much since that time :cheers:


That's the whole point! 2007.. pfff old times 

I can visualize it for you. Open this link: http://stadiony.klszarak.org/scc_a_s.swf and click on years at bottom right. Future prediction on this map base *only* on signed contracts.


----------



## toonczyk

A few graphs to visualize the progress:


----------



## GROBIN

kooba said:


> That's the whole point! 2007.. pfff old times
> 
> I can visualize it for you. Open this link: http://stadiony.klszarak.org/scc_a_s.swf and click on years at bottom right. Future prediction on this map base *only* on signed contracts.


Thanks for the link, *kooba*


----------



## seszele

CrazySerb said:


> Both Poland & Romania need to increase their pace of construction.
> 
> Even combined, this number of motorways is significantly less than that of former Yugoslavia - which has well over 2,500km of motorways, including 250-300km or so that opened last year.


Same old story comes again.. Nobody speaks we have enough of them.But if you take a close look at the development you "must" see in 2014 there will be roughly 2500km more motorway/expressway km than 10 years before(2004).

Crazy Serb, tell me 2 things, please: 1. how this progress in last 10 years looks like in f. Yugoslavia and what was the number in 2004? 2. how big share would take Serbia in this cake, cause I assume that Croatia has quite a significant impact on the figures , that you're bringing up? 

I also join to wish to all Romanian people that they will get the speed up of constructions as well. If you triple the number in next 3 years, you surely will.

I wish , I could soon reach beautiful Romanian mountains and coast without a night spent in hotel, down in Hungary


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Also note that Poland did a tremendous job overhauling thousands of kilometers of non-motorways. Road quality improved dramatically in the past 5 years.


----------



## and802

CrazySerb said:


> Both Poland & Romania need to increase their pace of construction.
> 
> Even combined, this number of motorways is significantly less than that of former Yugoslavia - which has well over 2,500km of motorways, including 250-300km or so that opened last year.



good evening CrazySerb,

I am very curious, why wyou mentioned former Yugoslavia in your comparison. the present countries which formed Yugoslavia in the past are now completely different with different issues, different geopolitic orientations.

could you elaborate it ?


----------



## Le Clerk

seszele said:


> I also join to wish to all Romanian people that they will get the speed up of constructions as well. If you triple the number in next 3 years, you surely will.
> 
> I wish , I could soon reach beautiful Romanian mountains and coast without a night spent in hotel, down in Hungary


Your wish might just come true. I would estimate that, based on current contracts and works, there will be one complete connection with Hungary's motorway network in 2-3 years tops.


----------



## Le Clerk

Can anybody tell me how much Poland could receive for motorways and expressways in 2007-2013 from the EU? Romania gets about 1.8 billion EUR.


----------



## and802

^^
the answer makes sense if you know what kind of funds had to be secured from national budget as well. EU does not finance any project without combination with national money. 

otherwords: if you do not have your own money do not dream of EU money.


----------



## Le Clerk

I agree, but I was asking solely for the EU allocations.


----------



## seszele

Le Clerk said:


> Your wish might just come true. I would estimate that, based on current contracts and works, there will be one complete connection with Hungary's motorway network in 2-3 years tops.


Unfortunately to fulfill my wishes completely, it takes a motorway/expressway all the way down from Kraków to Budapest or Debrecen too, not only Romanian stretches alone hno:


----------



## GROBIN

^^

This corridor seems to be a bit neglected. Just as the _Via Baltica_ hno: Although the first one is hard to build due to the hilly terrain (that is certainly part of a _Natura2000_ part - correct me if I'm wrong); whereas the latter would certainly be easier (only Augustów bypass being difficult due to ecological reasons ...)

It is quite paradoxical that no motorway/expressway connect directly Poland to its best friends, Hungary ...


----------



## kooba

Le Clerk said:


> Can anybody tell me how much Poland could receive for motorways and expressways in 2007-2013 from the EU? Romania gets about 1.8 billion EUR.


Plan for 2011-2015 is to spend no more than 83 bilion PLN (about 18,5 bln EUR) for road investment. Don't know how much we receive from EU.


----------



## GROBIN

^^

Is there any exact schedule for negotiations over this matter ?


----------



## toonczyk

Le Clerk said:


> I agree, but I was asking solely for the EU allocations.


Around 11 billion EUR. Operational Programme "Infrastructure and Environment" (with most funds spent on road infrastructure) was (is) the biggest operational programme in the history of EU. More details here:
http://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy...PAY=PL&gv_reg=ALL&gv_PGM=1212&gv_defL=7&LAN=7
Motorways and expressways were funded from priorities 6 and 8 (with less than 5% of money from those priorities spent on things other than road infrastructure).


----------



## seszele

GROBIN said:


> ^^
> 
> This corridor seems to be a bit neglected. Just as the _Via Baltica_ hno: Although the first one is hard to build due to the hilly terrain (that is certainly part of a _Natura2000_ part - correct me if I'm wrong); whereas the latter would certainly be easier (only Augustów bypass being difficult due to ecological reasons ...)
> 
> It is quite paradoxical that no motorway/expressway connect directly Poland to its best friends, Hungary ...


For the time- being I would also accept the connection via DK52--> S52 to Zwardon and further thru future D3 (?) to Zilina and Bratislava, so called rotten compromise
:colgate:


----------



## kooba

GROBIN said:


> ^^
> 
> Is there any exact schedule for negotiations over this matter ?


I found only information, that spendings in 2012 will be about 6,7 bln EUR, from with 3 bln will come from UE.


----------



## Le Clerk

toonczyk said:


> Around 11 billion EUR. Operational Programme "Infrastructure and Environment" (with most funds spent on road infrastructure) was (is) the biggest operational programme in the history of EU. More details here:
> http://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy...PAY=PL&gv_reg=ALL&gv_PGM=1212&gv_defL=7&LAN=7
> Motorways and expressways were funded from priorities 6 and 8 (with less than 5% of money from those priorities spent on things other than road infrastructure).


Thank you everybody! If the infrastructure operation programmme is 11 billion then I found my answer, even though not all money goes to motorway, it's still a good hint. Anyway, the Romanian programme is alloted 5.7 billion from EU (though only EUR 1.8 b go to motorways, the rest are allotted to railways, national roads etc). 

But in any case, the Polish programme is not the biggest IMO. Spain had the advantage of being a unique beneficiary of EU funds back when no eastern EU member was there in the EU and received vast amounts of money for infrastructure to the extent that it has now a motorway network better than Germany's. 

BTW: you are still the best kid on the block these years:



> *Poland, Romania Rank First and Second In Eastern Europe By Motorway Inaugurations*
> today, 00:00
> 
> Romania ranks second in the region in terms of kilometers of highway finalized last year (58 kilometers), behind Poland, which opened 217 kilometers of highway to traffic last year, according to a Ziarul Financiar analysis based on data supplied by infrastructure ministries and on information in the local media.


 Source


----------



## toonczyk

Le Clerk said:


> Thank you everybody! If the infrastructure operation programmme is 11 billion then I found my answer, even though not all money goes to motorway, it's still a good hint.


Actually the whole programme is ~37,6 billion EUR, 11 billion is just the EU contribution towards motorways and expressways.


----------



## kmieciu

*A2, interchange Komorniki - interchange Świecko.*

National Road 5, Poznań Głogowska street.









A2









Interchange Głuchowo 154 km east from Świecko, interchange with expressway S11 opening - 05.2012































































































































































Teraz ostrość będzie nienajlepsza.


----------



## kmieciu

Two videos made by *tomekwrz1991*.

Polish highways & motorways opened in 2008.





Polish highways & motorways opened in 2009.





to be continued...


----------



## Uppsala

In Legnica at the A4 there is an old motel at the junction. Thats the western junction in Legnica where A4 meet road 364. You can find the motel directly at the junction. And there is also a very old petrol station there. If you come from east and going west you first see the old petrol station directly at the junction and then the motel. The petrol station looks like it was built when the motorway was new in 1936-1937. But how old is the motel? Is that built in the same time like the petrol station? I had used that motel. It looks old. Maybe not first class, and not the most modern one, but quite charming. For me this motel is very interesting and charming for motorway fans like me, so I really recomend it to other motorway fans. 

Is that motel built in 1930s? Or is it built in the communist era in Poland?

Do anyone know this motel in Legnica at the A4?


----------



## rakcancer

^^
I think you have mixed up exits. There is no motel, no petrol station at A4 & 364. However there is one at one exit down with Rt 3:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Indeed there is old petrol station:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
(google maps)

Unfortunately don't have any info about motel.


----------



## Uppsala

rakcancer said:


> ^^
> I think you have mixed up exits. There is no motel, no petrol station at A4 & 364. However there is one at one exit down with Rt 3:
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> 
> Indeed there is old petrol station:
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> (google maps)
> 
> Unfortunately don't have any info about motel.



Sorry! You are right! I mixed the two junctions. It was the A4 and Rt3.

And thats the petrol station I told about. It looks like it must be built in 1936-1937 when the motorway was new. Its very nice for motorway fans. 

The motel is very close to this old petrol station. At the first picture you can se the roof of the petrol station. There are two bigger buildings at the right side from the petrol station. The building with black roof is the motel. So the motel is inside the junction. It looks like it was built for the motorway. So can this motel be built in the same time like the petrol station?

Do anyone know this motel?


----------



## rakcancer

Actually I think I found what you were looking for:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

This building is owned by one of the transportation company. I have no info about its history. Maybe someone from Legnica would be helpful here.


----------



## Uppsala

rakcancer said:


> Actually I think I found what you were looking for:
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> 
> This building is owned by one of the transportation company. I have no info about its history. Maybe someone from Legnica would be helpful here.


Yes! This is the motel! It should be very interesting to know the history if that motel. I think this building must be built for the motorway. I hope anyone here know about it.


----------



## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> I can also think of Wroclaw - Brno - Wien ....
> 
> Most of these routes carry between 5.000 and 10.000 vehicles per day outside the cities. If traffic increases to 15.000 - 20.000 vehicles you surely need something better than a two-lane road. I prefer the construction of 2+1 roads in the 2015 - 2025 timeframe which can be expanded to a 2x2 motorway if traffic volumes require it.


I've been thinking more about this route. If I'm not mistaken, AT and CZ should complete Brno - Vienna as a 2x2 route in 2016. With Brno - Bratislava already 2x2, completion of Brno - Vienna and the S5 works in progress between Wrocław and Poznań might increase the traffic load on Brno - Wrocław as the N/S corridor becomes more viable.

CZ have distant plans for 69 kilometers of 2x2 S43 heading north from Brno toward Wrocław. Are there any distant plans for the A8/S8 to be extended south -- perhaps to Kłodzko?


----------



## ips_on

mcarling said:


> CZ have distant plans for 69 kilometers of 2x2 S43 heading north from Brno toward Wrocław. Are there any distant plans for the A8/S8 to be extended south -- perhaps to Kłodzko?


Indeed they are, but only performed by Lower Silesian government. Probably to be done, but after 2015, if not later


----------



## Surel

Czech R43 is a music of very distant future.


----------



## kooba

ips_on said:


> Indeed they are, but only performed by Lower Silesian government. Probably to be done, but after 2015, if not later


Don't misinform people. There are no any kind of government plan for this road. Lover Silesia government plans, are only very old very loose conception. 

Lover Silesia has other investment in plans, like Wrocław east bypass (Bielany-Łany-Długołęka), bridge in Brzeg Dolny (part of big bypass of Lover Silesia), and so on. There is virtually no chance for A8-Kłodzko in perspective of 20 or more years.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

kooba said:


> There is virtually no chance for A8-Kłodzko in perspective of 20 or more years.


That's 2032. It's hard to predict what will happen around 2016-2018, not to mention 2032. Even in countries with long roadbuilding traditions, predictions as far as 20 years ahead in the future are 100% worthless. Nobody could've imagined the current road projects in the Netherlands in 1992, not even around 2002. 

Some projects were predicted to be completed in 5 years time, but never came into fruition. Others weren't planned 5 years before, but did get constructed. So it's a bit useless to make any predictions that are more than 4 - 5 years into the future, unless you have a mechanism where funding for road projects is specifically set aside many years in the future, but few countries do that. For instance in Germany the 2011 - 2015 funding for road projects wasn't announced until December 2011, before that, nobody had any idea whether a road project was funded 3 years ahead or not.

I think the best way to say it is that "it currently does not have a priority" rather than "there is virtually no chance it will be built by the next 5 - 6 governments" because nobody knows what priorities 2 or 3 governments in the future may have.


----------



## kooba

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think the best way to say it is that "it currently does not have a priority" rather than "there is virtually no chance it will be built by the next 5 - 6 governments" because nobody knows what priorities 2 or 3 governments in the future may have.


Yes youre right, it's hard to predict distant future. But we can agree for compromise: instead of "it currently does not have a priority", we can say "it currently does not have priority nor any plans to realize it".


----------



## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think the best way to say it is that "it currently does not have a priority" rather than "there is virtually no chance it will be built by the next 5 - 6 governments" because nobody knows what priorities 2 or 3 governments in the future may have.


It's even more difficult to predict what the EU may want to fund. Having dealt with the European Commission, I find it very easy to imagine a scenario a bit like the following, after completion of:
AT: A5 to the CZ border,
CZ: R52 to the AT border,
CZ: R43 from Brno to Dětřichov u Moravské Třebové, and
PL: S5 from Poznań to Wrocław.

Eurocrat 1: "We should fund a new highway from Wroclaw to Dětřichov u Moravské Třebové."
Eurocrat 2: "Why? The AADT crossing the PL/CZ border south of Kłodzko is only 1300."
Eurocrat 3: "Who cares about AADT?"
Eurocrat 1: "We could have new North-South corridor all the way from Poznań to Vienna and Bratislava."
Eurocrat 3: "It would look really cool on a map."
Eurocrat 2: "I guess you're right. It would look really cool on a map. Since it's not our money and we have to fund something, go for it."


----------



## ips_on

kooba said:


> Don't misinform people. There are no any kind of government plan for this road. Lover Silesia government plans, are only very old very loose conception.
> 
> Lover Silesia has other investment in plans, like Wrocław east bypass (Bielany-Łany-Długołęka), bridge in Brzeg Dolny (part of big bypass of Lover Silesia), and so on. There is virtually no chance for A8-Kłodzko in perspective of 20 or more years.


Sorry about it, but I wrote "if not later". Actually, Lower Silesian government has such a plan about the road, so maybe...but you are right, not in this EU money perspective


----------



## Surel

mcarling said:


> It's even more difficult to predict what the EU may want to fund. Having dealt with the European Commission, I find it very easy to imagine a scenario a bit like the following, after completion of:
> AT: A5 to the CZ border,
> CZ: R52 to the AT border,
> CZ: R43 from Brno to Dětřichov u Moravské Třebové, and
> PL: S5 from Poznań to Wrocław.
> 
> Eurocrat 1: "We should fund a new highway from Wroclaw to Dětřichov u Moravské Třebové."
> Eurocrat 2: "Why? The AADT crossing the PL/CZ border south of Kłodzko is only 1300."
> Eurocrat 3: "Who cares about AADT?"
> Eurocrat 1: "We could have new North-South corridor all the way from Poznań to Vienna and Bratislava."
> Eurocrat 3: "It would look really cool on a map."
> Eurocrat 2: "I guess you're right. It would look really cool on a map. Since it's not our money and we have to fund something, go for it."



I doubt both things. R43 is not really a priority nor for receiveing any EU funds.

And about the second part, it is not really only question of the EU commission, but it would be nice if it would. When the D3 in CZ is not attracting the priority money in EU, I can harldy imagine any other Norht South connection that would manage that, because of looking cooler on a map.


----------



## mcarling

The R43 is on the Czech government's ToDo list:
http://www.rsd.cz/rsd/rsd.nsf/a3eda25d005dc6bec125737e0045602e/9852f0647f31db37c12579820054ca4a/$FILE/cz-stavba-2012-%28sfdi%29-v23.pdf

Of course, my farcical illustration of the eurocrats is far-fetched, but the decision-making process is complex, involves irrational as well as rational factors, and is extremely unpredictable.


----------



## Surel

mcarling said:


> The R43 is on the Czech government's ToDo list:
> http://www.rsd.cz/rsd/rsd.nsf/a3eda25d005dc6bec125737e0045602e/9852f0647f31db37c12579820054ca4a/$FILE/cz-stavba-2012-%28sfdi%29-v23.pdf


That is map of the projected network as finished (some 1000 km of higways and motorways to go).

The actual working plan can be found here. There are listed those project where at least some paperwork have been done already (not the case of R43) and could be expected in 10 years.


----------



## Andrzej_3598

Uppsala said:


> Sorry! You are right! I mixed the two junctions. It was the A4 and Rt3.
> 
> And thats the petrol station I told about. It looks like it must be built in 1936-1937 when the motorway was new. Its very nice for motorway fans.
> 
> The motel is very close to this old petrol station. At the first picture you can se the roof of the petrol station. There are two bigger buildings at the right side from the petrol station. The building with black roof is the motel. So the motel is inside the junction. It looks like it was built for the motorway. So can this motel be built in the same time like the petrol station?
> 
> Do anyone know this motel?


I found following picture of this "Tankstelle". You may see some building behind.


----------



## ja.centy

kooba said:


> Yes youre right, it's hard to predict distant future. But we can agree for compromise: instead of "it currently does not have a priority", we can say "it currently does not have priority nor any plans to realize it".





Surel said:


> I doubt both things. R43 is not really a priority nor for receiveing any EU funds.


Then everything's cool. An upgrade of that road is not a priority for the authorities in both countries. End of discussion, I suppose.


----------



## Uppsala

rakcancer said:


> Indeed there is old petrol station:





Andrzej_3598 said:


> I found following picture of this "Tankstelle". You may see some building behind.


I think this picture must be from around 1936-1937. Same old petrol station. The dark building at the right side of the petrol station must be the same building you can se at the new picture with the text BAR on it. Maybe it was a restaurant at the old picture too?

But its not possible to see if the motel exist in that time or not. It is behind the camera.

Is there anyone from Legnica in this forum who now this?


----------



## mappero

Fiat 126p I was traveling with my family across Poland and even twice to East Berlin on motorway Wroclaw - Berlin via Cottubus. Max speed approx. 105-110 km/h  4 adult people inside  Fuel consumption the same as my car driving 200 km/h 
I could take some pictures wish that time digital cameras wasn't so popular as now...


----------



## Uppsala

I remember in the past, when it was sometimes came Fiat 126p from Poland to Sweden. It was a lot of luggage on the roof on that cars. I don't know why, but it was something romantic with that cars with all of that luggage on the roof. 

I go to Poland sometimes and it is totally different now.


----------



## piotr71

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Dutch are the tallest people in the world, I don't think I could fit in a car like that. I've driven the Toyota Starlet of my ex-girlfriend and my legs were stuck between the accelerator and the stick or the steering wheel.


http://www.fiat126.nl/ 

---

btw. I had three Fiats 126 and two 125 (the one on my avatar) when I was young.


----------



## kmieciu

*S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów _ 31.01.2012*

S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów _ 31.01.2012, source GDDKiA
_________________________________________________

*Section I*





























































































*Section II*
























































































































*Section III*


----------



## Blaskovitz

This is interchange of S3 and ??????????


>


----------



## Chris80678

Only one month (or possibly two as it may not open until April now because of the harsh winter weather in Poland) to go until the opening of the A1 to the Czech border :cheers:. I hope that the Czechs are working as fast to link the A1 motorway on the Polish side to the D1 motorway on the Czech side of the border :lol:


----------



## kmieciu

Blaskovitz said:


> This is interchange of S3 and ??????????


This is WS15 (motorway viaduct) on interchange Świebodzin północ. It's interchange with National Road 3.
This interchange connects NR3 and NR92 with interchange Jordanowo on A2.


----------



## TommyLopez

Chris80678 said:


> Only one month (or possibly two as it may not open until April now because of the harsh winter weather in Poland) to go until the opening of the A1 to the Czech border :cheers:. I hope that the Czechs are working as fast to link the A1 motorway on the Polish side to the D1 motorway on the Czech side of the border :lol:


The last section of the D1 to the polish border is practically finished since autumn :cheers: as far as i heard, we are waiting to our polish co-workers


----------



## Luki_SL

*S8 Wrocław - Syców*

S8 Wrocław - Syców new photos:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=88322095&postcount=1057
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=88322095&postcount=1058
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=88322095&postcount=1059
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=88322095&postcount=1061


----------



## Janek0

del


----------



## kmieciu

*S3 Gorzów Wlkp. - Międzyrzecz _ 31.01.2012*

S3 Gorzów Wlkp. - Międzyrzecz _ 31.01.2012, source GDDKiA


*Section I + III*



















Weak soil replacement














































*
Section II*




























Nice place to take pictures.


----------



## jtybinka

*S35*

I often travell by the DW 3396D. It joins Swidnica and DK5. You can go from Swidnica to north by 3396D and then using DK5 you can join A4 and go to Wroclaw. DW 3396D is very good new concrete road , 2 lines , but bridges and junctions are 4 lines , you can see that the road is prepared for extension for 4 lines, curves are mild like expressway, no villages on the way , no inhabited area
I wonder if GDDKiA could take over DW3396D , add 2 lines , extend 10 kilometers of DK5 for 4 lines , add 2 more lines on new Swidnica bypass ,
built new / extend DK35 to Walbrzych for 4 lines

Then we could have S35 connecting quite big Walbrzych aglomeration
(Walbrzych/Swidnica/Swiebodzice and other small towns)
Maybe it`s good option in case S3 will not be built
Walbrzych region needs good road much more then Jawor , Bolkow , where S3 to the border is planned
Farther extension of S35 to Czech border to Kamienna Gora could be problem 
but this could be very good for Warsaw - Wroclaw - Prague road , looks even better solution then S3
becasue S3 can only serve Legnica , Szczecin, but not the whole country like S35 via Wroclaw

S3 south from Legnica doesn`t pass big/medium towns , S3 can`t serve big part of Poland (Warsaw, Poznan, Wroclaw , Lodz)
S35 can serve Walbrzych aglomeration and could even server to connect the whole country with Prague/Czech 




What you all think about it ?


----------



## mapman:cz

You have a point, somehow. It's on the shortest route between Wrocław and Lubawka and if there is a possibility to extend it thru Wałbrzych (along DW367) to Lubawka, it would be a good solution for both transit and regional traffic. The question is, if this route is environmentally and economically feasible...


----------



## Switek

^^ It sounds not bad. But, practically, such construction between Wałbrzych and Lubawka would be expensive as hell because of difficult, mountain terrain there.


----------



## jtybinka

Switek said:


> ^^ It sounds not bad. But, practically, such construction between Wałbrzych and Lubawka would be expensive as hell because of difficult, mountain terrain there.


I agree with you , I know this but I raised discussion becasue it seems to be interesting variant to talk.

From the other point of view , S3 construction through Bolkow and Kamienna Gora will be expensive as well - there are alrerady 2 tunnels planned according to valid DSU document.
As I say S35 would be cool almost for everybody going to Czech , Austria and so on - from Bialystok Olsztyn Warszawa Gdansk Poznan Katowice Wroclaw , Lodz
S3 through Bolkow is only better variant for Zielona Gora and Szczecin
and as I say we would connect quite big towns like Walbrzych (~120 000 people ), Swidnica~(~60 000) , Jelenia Gora would prefer
this road as well then S3 becasue connection to Wroclaw is more important for Jelenia Gora then connection to Legnica.
This is the most populated and industrial region in Poland south from A4 apart from Upper Silesia where they have A1 (Rybnik, Jastzrebie , Wodzislaw) , even Bielsko that is south from A4 has 4 lines DK1 
I was always wondering why they don`t take it in consideration. Actually I see many new factories in this region - Electrolux , Toyota , Colgate , Faurecia and many many others , there is big industry growing there that`s why already they built DW3396D

As well distances I`m talking about are very short
DW3396D that I mean to extend 13 km
DK5 from DW3396D to A4 that need to be extend ~10 km
Swidnica - Walbrzych ?? ~15 km
Even if they would build this road to Walbrzych only, many people going to Czech would use it


----------



## Mateusz

mapman:cz said:


> You have a point, somehow. It's on the shortest route between Wrocław and Lubawka and if there is a possibility to extend it thru Wałbrzych (along DW367) to Lubawka, it would be a good solution for both transit and regional traffic. The question is, if this route is environmentally and economically feasible...


GDDKiA took over DK35 within Wałbrzych's borders. City officials said that the costs of a new, western bypass are too high to afford so it's now on shoulders of GDDKiA to finance and to build it. 

It shouldn't take that much longer to be honest. Big projects around Wrocław are pretty much finished. Time to focus now on other places in Lower Silesia.


----------



## jtybinka

mapman:cz said:


> You have a point, somehow. It's on the shortest route between Wrocław and Lubawka and if there is a possibility to extend it thru Wałbrzych (along DW367) to Lubawka, it would be a good solution for both transit and regional traffic. The question is, if this route is environmentally and economically feasible...


Is it from the Czech point of view a good solution ?
I heard that people in Nachod complain a lot for heavy truck traffic,
but it looks that Czech RSD is currently not working for alternative solution 
through Kralovec (same like GDDKiA)


----------



## mapman:cz

RSD has this project in its plans and the R11/S3 connection is also included in the new TEN-T policy as core network - so it has to be finished until 2030. It is expected to be built as 2+1 expressway in half profile of future 2+2 motorway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That sounds ambitious.... :nuts:


----------



## mapman:cz

... yeah, "ambitious"  We just need one electoral term lead by strong social-democratic party and you'll see how fast we can spend money %)

Anyway, the polish S3 is now on hold or is it really going to be built until 2020?


----------



## Janek0

mapman:cz said:


> Anyway, the polish S3 is now on hold or is it really going to be built until 2020?


Alas.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^There is one mistake with S3. This expressway exists now between Sulechów and Nowa Sól bypass. On the map there is white line. The S6 Goleniow-Koszalin has different routing etc


----------



## MajKeR_

I wouldn't care with such maps from newspaperes - our own, made by SSC user, is much more reliable.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yep, everyone who's involved in a project will notice the media makes loads of errors.


----------



## Blaskovitz

Newest!


----------



## mr.cool

What's the point in updating a map when there are no changes??!


----------



## toonczyk

There is one small change, A1 Toruń-Grudziądz is no longer toll-free.


----------



## Luki_SL

Some news from GDDKiA website: http://gddkia.gov.pl/en/a/10512/The-construction-of-the-A2-motorway-section-C-is-not-threatened

15-02-2012
*The construction of the A2 motorway, section C is not threatened*

On Wednesday, 15th January a meeting of the General Directorate of National Roads and Motorways officials with representatives of the consortium Bogl and Krysl and DSS, companies constructing the section C of the A2 motorway from Łódź to Warsaw, was held. The aim of the meeting was to gain information concerning reorganization within the supply of materials for construction in winter, to which the consortium was obliged two weeks ago, and information on how lodging applications concerning the bankruptcy of DSS, announced by its sub-contractors will influence the contract accomplishment.

The consortium B&K and DSS informed the ordering party that the day before it had reached the required level of daily supplies of materials for the construction. 20 thousand tonnes of sand and 10 thousand tonnes of aggregate daily is an amount that allows to conduct the construction after the winter period in full and with accordance to the expectations. B&K ensured that it had financing guaranteed for the material supplies.

With reference to information on the applications of bankruptcy of DSS lodged by its sub-contractors, DSS informed that it had already signed agreement with some of the sub-contractors, as a result of which the applications are to be withdrawn, and with other sub-contractors there were negotiations going on so that – as DSS stated – they reflected market values.


From: http://gddkia.gov.pl/en/a/10486/We-will-have-asphalt-on-the-A2-for-Euro-2012

06-02-2012
*We will have asphalt on the A2 for Euro 2012*

With reference to the today article in The Rzeczpospolita entitled “For Euro 2012 the A2 Motorway Will Have no Asphalt Layer,” the General Directorate of National Roads and Motorways informs that on the 91st kilometre of the A2 motorway from Łódź to Warsaw there is an asphalt layer on the section of over 70 km.

The progress in placing asphalt layers on individual sections is as follows:

ROAD BASE:

Section “A” 81% - 23.65 km
Section “B” 92 % - 15.64 km
Section “C” 37% - 7.4 km
Section “D” 94% - 16.54 km
Section “E” 100% - 7.1 km
– total of 70.33 km

BONDING LAYER:
Section “A” 43% - 12.56 km
Section “B” 41 % - 6.97 km
Section “C” 16% - 3.2 km
Section “D” 93% - 16.34 km
Section “E” 99% - 7.03 km
– total of 46.1 km

In places where there is still no the last, outer asphalt layer, it will be placed in spring, in accordance with the schedule and technological requirements.

In accordance with the contracts for the sections “A” and “C” concluded in summer 2011, works are to be completed on 15th October 2012, however in both cases the suitability for driving is to be ensured for the Euro tournament. Additionally, the contractor of the section “C” (consortium of the companies DSS and Bogl and Krysl) is obliged, on the basis of the contract, to put all asphalt layers (including removable layer). On the section “A” – the second section abandoned by the Chinese consortium Covec – which according to the contract ensured during the Euro tournament traffic on a bituminous layer, the contractor (Eurovia) is ahead the schedule and the majority road base layers has been already covered by another layer, the so-called bonding layer. In spring the contractor plans to finish the route with the removable layer.

From: http://gddkia.gov.pl/en/a/10472/Tender-for-the-construction-of-Tczewska-junction-on-the-A6-motorway

01-02-2012
*Tender for the construction of Tczewska junction on the A6 motorway
*
The new junction will be constructed on the current crossing of the motorway and Tczewska Street (the first flyover over the motorway going from Kijewo junction in the direction of Świnoujście). Works related with the junction construction should begin in mid-2012 and their completion is scheduled for mid-2013.

Within the investment a double flyover along Tczewska (Nowoprzestrzenna) Street and junction connectors will be constructed. Since autumn 2011 modernisation works have been conducted on the motorway on the over two-kilometre-long section in the area of the future junction. Old German concrete plates are replaced with new bituminous surface. Works on the motorway are linked with the construction of Nowoprzestrzenna Street and the road network near the region of Tczewska junction that are being accomplished by the city of Szczecin. After their completion, inhabitants of Szczecin Dąbie and Wielgowo will get a possibility of separate access to the A6 motorway. It is also planned to close a dangerous cross-road of the S3 road with Goleniowska Street and entrance to Rzęśnica junction from the direction of Wielgowo. Earlier on, a tender for modernization of a bridge on the A6 motorway over the Chełszcząca river together with access roads, situated northwards from the planned Tczewska junction, was also announced.

From: http://gddkia.gov.pl/en/a/10465/The...m-the-European-Regional-Development-Fund-ERDF
31-01-2012
*The construction of Serock ring road along the national road no. 61 was given co-financing from the European Regional Development Fund (ERDF)*

On 27th January 2012 the European Commission officials issued the decision approving the financial contribution for a large project “The Construction of Serock Ring road Along the National Road No. 61”

The sum with reference to which the level of co-financing of the priority axis VIII “Safety of Transport and National Transport Networks” of the operational programme for a large project is applicable amounts to EUR 46 225 971

The investment is being accomplished in Masovian voivodeship, the poviat of Legionowo, in the territory of the town and municipality of Serock. It consists of the construction of the ring road of Serock along the national road no. 61 and a new section of the national road no. 62. Together with the construction of a two-roadway ring road and a one-roadway section of the national road no. 62 there will be flyovers over or along the ring road, junctions and access roads, road safety devices, and environmental protection devices constructed.

The national road no. 61 constitutes an element of an international communication network from Warsaw, through Łomża, Grajewo, and Augustów to a Polish-Lithuanian border crossing in Budzisk. The aim of the project is to improve the traffic capacity and the quality of this route for national and transit traffic.

The planned investment consists of altering the route of the national road no. 61 on the section that goes through the town and municipality of Sercok. The construction of a ring road on the section westwards from the existing national road no. 61, outside the area of high-density housing will lead to:

The improvement in the access to interregional and international routes for transit traffic; 
Moving the zone of negative influence away from the area of the most dense housing by means of moving the streams of car traffic not heading to Serock as such (which is the case in 90% of traffic) to the new route, which will significantly improve living conditions of Serock’s citizens;
Shortening of journey time;
The improvement of road safety, elimination of dangerous spots and improvement of the comfort of the long-distance car traffic with high speeds;

Beneficiaries of the investment will be inhabitants of Masovian voivodeship and drivers of cars and trucks in local and transit traffic.


----------



## Janek0

Luki_SL said:


> *We will have asphalt on the A2 for Euro 2012*


:banana:


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## ChrisZwolle

In Switzerland having a motorway paved means it will open in 2 years


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> In Switzerland having a motorway paved means it will open in 2 years


Tell this our media.


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## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> In Switzerland having a motorway paved means it will open in 2 years


And here we have sections looking like that, and the opening is planned in 15 weeks. Photo by one of our dedicated photographers, mkuldane:


----------



## mcarling

*A1 Pyrzowice - Gorzyczki*

Most of the active participants here read Polish much better than I do, so I hope someone will correct me if I've misunderstood. I've been trying to read the A1 Pyrzowice - Gorzyczki thread in the Polish language forum and it seems that the current expectation is that this section will open in late May or early June. Looking at recent photos, I don't see any chance of a March opening.


----------



## MAG

mcarling said:


> ... the current expectation is that this section will open in late May or early June. Looking at recent photos, I don't see any chance of a March opening.


Anything that’s at the mercy of the weather runs the risk of slipping behind schedule. While a March opening looks increasingly unlikely, it is not totally out of the question. If I were to have a flutter at the bookies, I’d say end of June.

Time will tell and, of course, we will keep you posted.


.


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## Uppsala

But are they really going to open all parts of A2 from Łódź to Warszawa before opening of Euro 2012? I can't belive it. :dunno:


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## ChrisZwolle

The problem with A2 & A4 is that they are relatively far from their old routes DK2 & DK4, which means they are only useful in their entirety for through traffic. Otherwise it's hauling back and forth from the DK to the autostrada all the time to bridge the missing links.


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## toonczyk

Uppsala said:


> But are they really going to open all parts of A2 from Łódź to Warszawa before opening of Euro 2012? I can't belive it. :dunno:


It's still possible, but probably not the greatest idea to rush with this... There are already some serious concerns about the quality of roadworks - fractures of the AC surface have been reported.


ChrisZwolle said:


> The problem with A2 & A4 is that they are relatively far from their old routes DK2 & DK4, which means they are only useful in their entirety for through traffic. Otherwise it's hauling back and forth from the DK to the autostrada all the time to bridge the missing links.


That's true. But it will already be a huge improvement if all sections of A2 apart from section C will get opened. Also it's not really a big deal if some parts get delayed by a few months or even a year - we've been waiting for those motorways since forever, so as long as they are U/C, we can wait a little longer


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## ChrisZwolle

The cracks huge sinkholes in A2 even made the Dutch newspapers yesterday. The news read: "The motorway specifically built for Euro 2012 already has cracks". 

As if that is news. Every asphalt motorway has cracks somewhere, you can easily repair that, worst case scenario is a few meters new asphalt. 

The media is trash. People read it because there are no alternatives. Everyone involved in a particular subject knows the media often exaggerates problems, makes loads of errors or publicizes non-news as "news".


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## g.spinoza

^^ It depends on how deep are those crack/sinkholes. It's not normal, for instance, to have 30 cm deep holes in a newly opened road. This is news.


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## ChrisZwolle

According to the Polish highway authority GDDKiA is just a small crack in a section where two layers of asphalt poured on different days connect. Nothing to worry about, but the press are wildly speculating A2 won't be ready on time. (On time for what, a few soccer matches? As if that's the only purpose of this motorway).


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## toonczyk

Yeah, we're having some fun with how media handle this here as well. Some of the first articles on this matter were accompanied by photos of roads in Japan, damaged by last year's tsunami... But we're kind of used to that, our media have always been terrible in reporting infrastructure-related news. It is kind of funny how ignorant journalists are, but at the same time it's really sad too, because this is where most people get their knowledge on the subject and then it takes years to quell some of the ridiculous misconceptions about motorways. And it takes only one stupid article every few weeks to make people believe, that:
1) there are no motorways in Poland and never will be, because...
2) there are no motorways U/C in Poland
3) our motorways (which we don't have) are by far the most expensive roads in the world, both to build and to use
4) our motorways are not really motorways, because it's just a layer of tar on top of a layer of sand, we'll never have roads as good as in the west
5) our motorways will need to be closed and repaired within months after opening
6) they're not really motorways, because they are just 2x2, and two lanes are not enough, no matter what.

And so on.


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## mcarling

My father is a retired journalist, so my perspective may be a bit different. In my opinion, journalism is a profession that was damaged more than most by the soviet occupation. I think it will be only after those "educated" during the occupation have all retired that journalism will fully recover.


----------



## toonczyk

I don't think so, I think the competition from tabloid journalism and the internet slowly kills real journalism. I don't know about the western EU, but that's certainly what is happening here, as well as in the USA. In the 24-hour news cycle, real, deep journalism just doesn't sell anymore. If the media said "there are some cracks in the surface of a motorway, but it's not that unusual and it's being handled appropriately, end of story", nobody would take interest. So they have to write "OH MY GOD, MOTORWAY WORTH TWENTY TRILLION DOLLARS HAS TO BE DEMOLISHED AND BUILT FROM SCRATCH, OUR EXPERTS SAY THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WILL DIE IN THE PROCESS", so that people buy it and have something to complain about.


----------



## g.spinoza

mcarling said:


> My father is a retired journalist, so my perspective may be a bit different. In my opinion, journalism is a profession that was damaged more than most by the soviet occupation. I think it will be only after those "educated" during the occupation have all retired that journalism will fully recover.


Journalism in Italy is absolute shit, and we've never been occupied by commies...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yep, same in the Netherlands. I mean a crack in a Polish motorway, is that really newsworthy in the Netherlands? I'd say it's not even newsworthy in the local newspaper. It's just a regular repair that happens across the continent every single day. There have been a few scandals about universities teaching journalism, they had to review dozens of papers, and a number of journalists who got a 7 or 8 (on a scale from 1 - 10) actually failed it. So the quality of journalism is going downhill quite fast, especially with all these twitter news agencies popping up in the last few years. What also significantly reduces the quality of news sites is the option of commenting on articles. If you read those comments you'd think 90% of the Netherlands has an IQ of 60 or lower...

GDDKiA notes that the cracks will be repaired quickly and on the expense of the contractor. More interestingly, they also comment that the working procedure which may have caused the cracks are standard and applied on other roads without problems too. I feel bad for the GDDKiA PR staff, having to debunk those crap news stories all the time. I noticed a vast increase of press releases by GDDKiA correcting media errors in the past year. 

http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/10541/Wezwanie-do-naprawy-spekan-na-A2


----------



## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> What also significantly reduces the quality of news sites is the option of commenting on articles. If you read those comments you'd think 90% of the Netherlands has an IQ of 60 or lower...


Brilliant polish SF writer and probably one of the most intelligent people we've had around, Stanisław Lem, once said he never realized how many idiots there are in the world, until he'd started using the Internet. It is kind of sad, that usually it's the people who have nothing to say that are shouting the loudest.


ChrisZwolle said:


> I noticed a vast increase of press releases by GDDKiA correcting media errors in the past year.


Yes, they are very active lately, but I think it's tilting at windmills. Even if the media publish their responses, people still don't really believe that, because general public has very little confidence in public institutions in Poland.


----------



## Don Vito KurDeBalanz

Adding to all above - cracks are not on the final layers. And there are 5 years guarantee of constructors of all newbuilt highways. So please - just for a moment - let's forget about news guys.


----------



## MajKeR_

ChrisZwolle said:


> The media is trash. People read it because there are no alternatives. Everyone involved in a particular subject knows the media often exaggerates problems, makes loads of errors or publicizes non-news as "news".


I think it results from attitude of Dutch conservative milieus to new EU: if twenty years ago there was something unlikely for "west" and (cheap!) workers from this countries hide their windows by some "rags" (and sometimes do more unbelievable things), organising football championship by poor Poland must be filled with failures and stopgaps. Conservative people are the most grateful recipients of media, because they believe to every word matching to their opinions and show emotions induced by articles, so such articles are some flatteries for them.

I believe that not every Dutch see the collapse of Poland in cracks on surface of built motorway and also some of them think that this country isn't as savage as it would be likely.


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## Don Vito KurDeBalanz

^^ +1. But I think we should end of all of those OT right now. Let's stop feeding media


----------



## Surel

If there were no media, there would also be no public control and that means no pressure. That the media follow its own agenda is another problem. Anyway, it is better to have crappy media, than no media. Now a days, there is internet, and if there is someone who is really interested and wants to know what the things are, he can most of the times get to the facts.

Above that. Media are not specialized. They just report about things they have no technical insight in. It is completaly normal, that when an infrastructure engineer talks with e.g. IT engineer he would hardly feel that the IT person has something to say about the bridges he built, vice versa its the same. The journalists are at most educated in only one direction, mostly in no direction. The news itself is their specilisation. Thus it is more then natural that their reporting cannot be to the satisfaction of people that have insight.


----------



## toonczyk

Surel said:


> Above that. Media are not specialized. They just report about things they have no technical insight in. It is completaly normal, that when an infrastructure engineer talks with e.g. IT engineer he would hardly feel that the IT person has something to say about the bridges he built, vice versa its the same. The journalists are at most educated in only one direction, mostly in no direction. The news itself is their specilisation. Thus it is more then natural that their reporting cannot be to the satisfaction of people that have insight.


I don't know about that. In the good old days, before publishing a piece, journalists did a little thing called research. They studied the subject, they talked to people who are experts in the field, they looked for opinions of all parties involved etc. As a result, the articles may have lacked in terms of technical vocabulary, but at least they were truthful and fairly balanced in terms of opinions. Now I feel like journalists don't even think it really matters if the story is true or not, they don't bother checking with any sources. Facts don't matter all that much anymore, what's important is a juicy opinion, preferably with some finger pointing.

Don't get me wrong - even the worst press is better than no press. And it's probably better to have them chasing fake stories, but keeping people responsible for spending our money on their toes, than to have media just praising the administration and allowing them to do whatever they want. As long as the citizens have limited access to public information (which unfortunately is still true), the media are on the frontline of people's oversight over government and no matter how bad a job they're doing, it's better than nothing.


----------



## AUchamps

toonczyk said:


> I don't know about that. *In the good old days,*


You mean before 1989? Because I'm pretty sure that the only news given was that which Moscow wanted you guys to hear. Everyone knew it was propaganda and lies, but it was the best you could do officially. Now, the journalism that you heard from Western Europe and America under secret, yes that was "quality" reporting back then.


----------



## bebe.2006

Next election in Poland will be in 2014 or so. So the government don't need good news right now. It is better to report now: "we have a problem" and then open the road in 100 days even if not everything will be 100% ready than to tell now: "we have all under control" and be criticized in 100 days because not everything will be 100% ready.


----------



## mappero

Some road cameras showing road conditions if someone's heading toward Polish Tatra mountains:http://wtatry.eu/kamery


----------



## bleetz

Blaskovitz said:


> Newest!
> 
> 
> http://ssc-mapa.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/nowa-mapa.png


What are all these yellow sections between the German border and Strykow?


----------



## rav00

^^ yellow filling means tolled section


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## bleetz

Ah, got it, I was wondering why it wasn't green because I knew it was finished. This clears it up, thanks. Do you know the exact date when the Strykow-Warsaw section will be open?


----------



## rav00

No one knows, because one (20km) part of this section is far behind.
We should be able to drive from Strykow to Warsaw in may, but this one poart will be unfinished and will probably have 70-90kph speed limit.


----------



## Yamamoto

Does anybody have progress information on the petrol stations between Świecko and Nowy Tomyśl? they should be complete in March/April, depending on where you look.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^On the http://www.autostrada-a2.pl/pl/index , there is offiacial info that MOP Sosna (rest area) - 5km A2 will be open in april. MOP Rogoziniec (85km) will be open in may


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## lukaszek89

There is great view on A4 construction if You travel by train from Krakow in Rzeszow direction.


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## ChrisZwolle

The only thing you can read from this sign is that you've entered Poland. :lol:



noah_pl said:


> Pojawił się już polski "witacz"...


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## Orionol

ChrisZwolle said:


> The only thing you can read from this sign is that you've entered Poland. :lol:


Hahaha so true. :lol:


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## ChrisZwolle

A4 Szarów - Tarnów



pzajac26 said:


> WA-31


Why don't they construct the embankment already? It takes quite a bit of time for the embankment to consolidate. In the Netherlands it can take up to 18 months to prevent subsidence in later years. The soil is not as soft in Poland as it is in the Netherlands, but 2 - 3 months seem very little to me if this motorway will open in late May.


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## Rombi

ChrisZwolle said:


> The only thing you can read from this sign is that you've entered Poland. :lol:


This is what I'm talking about. Who need it? I could understand if UE regulations required from us this since they treat snails as a fish but It's just our own invention^^


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## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> The only thing you can read from this sign is that you've entered Poland. :lol:


Even more, it is the only sign you can read it from.


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## Marbur66

ChrisZwolle said:


> The only thing you can read from this sign is that you've entered Poland. :lol:


WTF?! How is anyone supposed to retain that info? I guess if you slow down to about 30km/h then you can actually make out what the sign is trying to communicate. Completely ridiculous, IMO. :bash:


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## Fuzzy Llama

^^
You know, you miss the point of this sign entirely. It is not supposed to tell you speed limits, its message is:

"Welcome to Poland. If you think that this is ridiculous you don't know the first thing about this country yet.
We have also some speed limits, but no one cares about them anyway"


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## Don Vito KurDeBalanz

^^ sad but very true :cheer: , welcome to the country of no speed limits, (or at least - country where nobody gives a damn about it)


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## rav00

Fuzzy Llama said:


> ^^
> You know, you miss the point of this sign entirely. It is not supposed to tell you speed limits, its message is:
> 
> "Welcome to Poland. If you think that this is ridiculous you don't know the first thing about this country yet.
> We have also some speed limits, but no one cares about them anyway"


"Welcome to Poland. Don't get caught."

And the sign could be easily changed to 50 / 100 / 150.


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## ChrisZwolle

It's not exactly something to be proud of, Poland's traffic safety record is one of the worst in Europe. I don't say speed is the only factor, but reckless driving sure is.


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## rav00

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's not exactly something to be proud of, Poland's traffic safety record is one of the worst in Europe. I don't say speed is the only factor, but reckless driving sure is.


Safety is proportional to the number of kilometers of motor- and expressways. Close down motorways in the rest of Europe and - I predict - it'll be roughly the same everywhere.

The worst thing about our roads is fact, that DK's lead through many built-up areas. Even Lithuania has it better since you're able to drive from PL to LV border and barely see any towns.


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## Surel

Is the speed limit for a bus on the motorway only 80 km/h?


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## MajKeR_

Unfortunately (and formally) yes.


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## toonczyk

Surel said:


> Is the speed limit for a bus on the motorway only 80 km/h?


Buses with valid additional technical checkup can go up to 100km/h.


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## rav00

For newer coaches that meet some technical specification it's 100km/h.

http://prawo.ekologia.pl/Prawo_ochr...oraz_zakresu_ich_niezbednego_wyposazenia.html

In short: engine at least 11 kW/t (GVW), certified breaking system, testing in case of front tyre blowing up, seats with seatbelts, armrests, and higher backrests... and some minor safety enhancement.


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## Don Vito KurDeBalanz

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's not exactly something to be proud of, Poland's traffic safety record is one of the worst in Europe. I don't say speed is the only factor, but reckless driving sure is.


@ChrisZwolle - you're watching this thread very closely - those "remarks" above were just "the irony through the tears". You're absolutely right - recklessness is horrible on our roads.


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## noah_pl

A1 Świerklany - border‎ PL/CZ (2x) [HD 720p]


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## mcarling

Great video *noah_pl*! Thanks.


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## ChrisZwolle

Is there already an opening date for A4/S19 around Rzeszów? The famous map says III/2012. That's now.


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## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is there already an opening date for A4/S19 around Rzeszów? The famous map says III/2012. That's now.


According to latest information, it's supposed to be ready by the end of May, but it's still in danger of being even more late.

I guess this is a problem on most contracts, we are learning on our mistakes, it is simply not possible to build motorways this quickly (at least without overpaying and without the quality suffering).


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## kmieciu

*S3 Gorzów Wlkp. - Międzyrzecz*

Great photo update by DSzumaher, S3 Gorzów Wlkp. - Międzyrzecz.



DSzumaher said:


> W tym wątku cały czas jest mowa o odcinku do Sulechowa, a ja chciałbym Was przenieść na odcinek do Międzyrzecza.
> Niestety w trakcie jedynego dnia w najbliższym czasie (wczoraj), którego mogłem przybyć na budowę trafiła się pogoda pod psem. Dzień wcześniej słoneczko, tak samo dzisiaj.
> No ale trudno. Jedziemy...
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DSzumaher said:


> I w drugą stronę.
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DSzumaher said:


> No i do Międzyrzecza...
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## flierfy

ChrisZwolle said:


> Why don't they construct the embankment already? It takes quite a bit of time for the embankment to consolidate. In the Netherlands it can take up to 18 months to prevent subsidence in later years. The soil is not as soft in Poland as it is in the Netherlands, but 2 - 3 months seem very little to me if this motorway will open in late May.


You can clearly see that the breast wall hasn't been erected yet. There is no way that the earthworks can be continued until that has been done.


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## PLH

The first L'viv sign on A4:



Artur. said:


>


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## Blaskovitz

^^ Why not Lwów?


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## mcarling

Blaskovitz said:


> Why not Lwów?


Because drivers who don't read Polish also need to know.


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## MajKeR_

Should be "Lwów/L'viv" or something similar, but Polish law doesn't provide it...


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## ChrisZwolle

This is exactly how it should be done. Good job, Poland


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## Chris80678

At least Lviv is signed from as far as from Rzeszów since it is the last large town before the Ukranian border. Łancut, Jarosław and Radymno which also all lie close to the A4 are much smaller places


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## noah_pl

PLH said:


> The first L'viv sign on A4:





MajKeR_ said:


> Should be "Lwów/L'viv" or something similar, but Polish law doesn't provide it...




Ostrava, not Ostrawa. It's good for me.


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## RipleyLV

ChrisZwolle said:


> This is exactly how it should be done. Good job, Poland


+1


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## Blaskovitz

mcarling said:


> Because drivers who don't read Polish also need to know.



But germans has Breslau.


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## MajKeR_

At Polish forum (in German thread) we just determined that information at signs should be helpful for local drivers at first sequence. Such situation exists in Germany. There's some idea, but not really good. In fact, Breslau (Wrocław) is the same German as Lwów (L'viv) is Polish...


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## rakcancer

...this discussion is pointlessly repeated all over again...


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## To_mat

Will be a highway for Euro2012. The whole ... 19.8 km

Added: March 15, 2012, 7:00 Author: Bartosz Gubernat

The planned completion date of the course and the various stages of the motorway between Krakow and Korczowa. 
223 km from the A4 motorway between Krakow and Korczowa, before the Euro 2012 final will be less than 20 km. Construction of the remaining runs until 2013.

The latest report of the General Directorate for National Roads and Motorways that the complete route on the section A4 Krakow - Rzeszow is unrealistic, not only for the June tournament, but even to the end of the year. Contractors constantly asking for extension of deadlines for the works and in many sections is not yet even under the road embankment.

According to the official position of GDDKiA, with 10 sections of the motorway between Krakow and Rzeszow to June, ready to be only one - connecting the Lesser Wierzchosławice of Tarnow. Road constructors do not exclude that manage to finish two more, and the shortest in the region of Rzeszów. The closest final of the works between the central node and the east, where he lacks only the last layer of asphalt.

- You have to arrange it for almost seven kilometers away. Contractor requested a further extension of the work, which according to the contract ended in December - says Joanna Rarus of Rzeszów branch GDDKiA.

Not agreed to this, and for each day of delay accruing nearly 90 thousand. zł penalty. Therefore we hope that will accelerate the work and by May the road will be ready - he adds. 



The same deadline roadmen assume for the section between nodes rzeszowskimi west - central. His contractor should have completed construction in February, so also pay penalties for delays.

- But here on the completion of the highway before the Euro 2012 has no chance. This lack of asphalt, but also part of the embankment and foundation under the roadway. I watched the construction site a few days ago. To my eye the real deadline is August - Nowiny evaluate the building for an experienced engineer.

When I finished the remaining portions will podkarpacko-Małopolska road? It depends, among others the weather.

- Because this is the work of poor weather conditions are most common. That was such in the rain in June and July last year. But this is not the only problems. Contractors must also get down to hard work, because to date with the mobilization of the squares at times very differently - adds Joanna Rarus.

The headquarters in Warsaw GDDKiA but not tear hair from the head.

- The work did not go as we expected, contractors are up, but most importantly, that the roads will arise. And this should be happy - says Artur Mrugasiewicz from the Press GDDKiA.

Date of opening the entire section of the motorway, however, give no one wants.

- In theory, most of the episodes should be ready by the end of the year. Longer pulled only works between Brzesko and Wierzchosławicami, where the previous contractor had wasted eight months and had to sign a contract with the new company. For now nearing completion of the whole section Krakow - Korczowa is therefore 2013. Month? Hard to say - Mrugasiewicz added.

Meanwhile, according to the declaration made in 2008 by Cezary Grabarczyk, then head of the Ministry of Infrastructure, our path like the other 800 km of new highways and 1,700 km of expressways were to be ready before the Euro 2012. 

nowiny24.pl (google translate)


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## ChrisZwolle

It's like they suddenly found out there are only 12 weeks between the winter break and the start of the summer. 

Well, better safe and good than sorry and fast. Motorways are supposed to last a lifetime, not just during Euro 2012.


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## ChrisZwolle

www.polishroadsoapopera.com/gddkia

Geez, the word of the year at the GDDKiA website is certainly "cracks". 4 out 5 of their press releases is about cracks.


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## Luki_SL

ChrisZwolle said:


> Well, better safe and good than sorry and fast. Motorways are supposed to last a lifetime, not just during Euro 2012.


It`s true I can`t understand someone who think, that Euro 2012 is deadline for all the investments


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## LMB

Blaskovitz said:


> ^^ Why not Lwów?


Why "Lwów"? This place isn't called that anymore.


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## WB2010

So why the Germans write "Breslau" ? Such city doesn't exist since 1945 ...


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## Switek

WB2010 said:


> So why the Germans write "Breslau" ? Such city doesn't exist since 1945 ...


Twisted logic. The city does exist regardless it's called Wrocław or Breslau. Does the canal La Manche not exist for the islanders because they call it English channel?


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## ja.centy

LMB said:


> Why "Lwów"? This place isn't called that anymore.


It certainly is in Polish language. The same like Breslau in German or Vratislav in Czech (for Wrocław).

In relation to signing the locations abroad, I think that the road signs in Poland should have both Polish name and its local equivalent, e.g. "Lwów (Lviv)" or "Lwów/Lviv", and not only the foreign names.


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## mcarling

Most of the world -- even most of Europe -- know the city as Lvov. We can disagree about whether global convergence toward English is good or bad. I don't think there is much disagreement about whether or not the international dominance of English is increasing.


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## Sponsor

mcarling said:


> Most of the world -- even most of Europe -- know the city as Lvov. We can disagree about whether global convergence toward English is good or bad.


Lvov is german, *Lviv* is english


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## lukaszek89

Lvov is Russian, Lemberg is German. Lviv is Ukrainian and should be also in English.

World use Russian name. I don't understand why for example PKP use Lvov instead of Lviv.


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## g.spinoza

Sponsor said:


> Lvov is german, *Lviv* is english


_Lemberg_ is German.


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## mcarling

Sponsor said:


> *Lviv* is english


I'm English and I've never heard the city called anything but Lvov by native English speakers.


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## Deo

I think it should be: real name / local name: *Lviv (Львів) / Lwów* or *Wrocław / Breslau*.


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## bigalowski

There is a lot of things that should have been done in our country.
BTW. When is the remaining stretch of A1 towards the Czech border due to be open?




ja.centy said:


> It certainly is in Polish language. The same like Breslau in German or Vratislav in Czech (for Wrocław).
> 
> In relation to signing the locations abroad, I think that the road signs in Poland should have both Polish name and its local equivalent, e.g. "Lwów (Lviv)" or "Lwów/Lviv", and not only the foreign names.


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## mcarling

bigalowski said:


> When is the remaining stretch of A1 towards the Czech border due to be open?


It seems likely to open in May 2012.


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## Sponsor

mcarling said:


> I'm English and I've never heard the city called anything but Lvov by native English speakers.


Just got this from wiki.


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## Trina68

can somebody explain what do the roads 1 and 8 (not A1 and A8!) look like? (i mean sections Katowice - Lodź and Piotrków Trybunalski - Warszawa? are they 4 laned or not, are the intersections in one level or more?


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## MajKeR_

The whole road is dual carriageway, with two lanes in each direction. But on 8, from Piotrków Trybunalski to border of łódzkie and mazowieckie voivodeship (at 94,3 km long stretch) there's reconstruction to 2x2 expressway, planned to be ended at may. Intersections are generally in one (ground) level.


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## ufonut

Spring is coming so expect more photos from Poland 

S5 Eastern Bypass of Poznan



Papa Sz said:


> Po zimie wreszcie pojawia sie pierwsza masa!
> Ponizej kilka świeżych zdjec lotniczych:
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S8 expressway connecting Warsaw and A2 highway



matrix4321 said:


> Za tymi białymi, betonowymi zaporami jest węzeł S8 z DK2 - obecnie jest tam umiejscowiona tymczasowa zawrotka.
> 
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## Chris80678

So the whole E67 8 between Piortryków Trb and Warsaw will have full grade seperated interchanges? 
Look forward to seeing it open in May :cheers:


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## toonczyk

Chris80678 said:


> So the whole E67 8 between Piortryków Trb and Warsaw will have full grade seperated interchanges?
> Look forward to seeing it open in May :cheers:


No, part between Warsaw and Mszczonów (around DK50) is not being upgraded to an expressway right now. Also, I wouldn't count on it being ready in May - autumn is more likely.


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## Chris80678

So motorway and expressway openings in Poland pretty light on the ground. Nothing really opening until the summer :bash:


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## toonczyk

Chris80678 said:


> So motorway and expressway openings in Poland pretty light on the ground. Nothing really opening until the summer :bash:


Parts of S8 may be ready earlier. In general - we'll see, some new roads should be opened before the summer officially starts (22.06)...


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## mcarling

Chris80678 said:


> So motorway and expressway openings in Poland pretty light on the ground. Nothing really opening until the summer :bash:


New sections of the A1 north and south of Katowice should open in May. In general, there will be many, many kilometers of new motorways and expressways opening in 2012.


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## Chris80678

New sections of the A1 north and south of Katowice should open in May

Ok you mean the A1 from the Czech border to Swierklany and the A1 from Zabrze to Katowice airport all opening in May


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## niskogradnja

ChrisZwolle said:


> I hope Poland fixes its noise regulations, because this is completely over the top.


Sorry, but u have to learn how corruption works: More soundwalls- more money. (We need more walls here, and also there...)


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## mappero

ChrisZwolle said:


> I hope Poland fixes its noise regulations, because this is completely over the top. Numerous new roads in Poland are excessively soundwalled to a point it becomes claustrophobic.
> 
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Common! It's like on A2 and N2 in Eindhoven, but the speed limit in Eindhoven is 120/80 km/h and here with soundwalls you have 140 km/h. What do u prefer? :lol:


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## toonczyk

mappero said:


> the speed limit in Eindhoven is 120/80 km/h and here with soundwalls you have 140 km/h.


There is a 80km/h speed limit on this bridge.


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## ChrisZwolle

I prefer a pragmatic approach to traffic noise. You can't conform to 45 or 50 dB along every road (or railroad for that matter) at all cost.


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## mappero

^^ Don't take to yourself too deeply but it's very Dutch approach... and you are Dutch...
Money it's not the main factor of decision or project management as some people would like to follow.
It's better to have possibility to see surrounding when you drive but... will you live in this house here: A28


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## lukaszek89

I hate those soundwalls, but probably the reason is chaotic urbanisation as in mappero example, in Poland there are often houses in the middle of nothing...


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## ChrisZwolle

It's important to understand that the 50 dB limit is exceeded in virtually every city street, not just along major trafficked roadways. In fact 500 mopeds, 1.000 cars or 100 trucks a day is enough to exceed 50 dB at properties close to the roadway. And sound screens are not feasible in most of those situations (you can't put a 4 m tall noise screen along every urban street).


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## mappero

^^ With motorways/highways it's very different. The problem is not single object making xx dB. Those mentioned roads are source of constant moderate noise - all they long and night. And this is more dangerous for human live in vicinity.


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## ChrisZwolle

Many more houses are within 10 - 20 meters of an urban street than a motorway or expressway... In fact a building at a distance of 80 meters of 100 km/h 50.000 vpd traffic may recieve just as much noise as a building at a distance of 15 meters of 50 km/h 20.000 vpd traffic. The decibel scale is logaritmic. circa 3 dB equals double volume or double distance.

The usual approach in the Netherlands is to make the sides of the buildings facing the roadway (thus receive most noise) "deaf" by soundproofing it. It's far more cost effective than giant noise screens to protect only a few buildings. Besides that, it only applies to buildings with constant habitation (like houses) which excludes office buildings or industrial areas. 

That's what I mean with "pragmatic". You can't expect urban environments to have 50 dB or less noise levels at all times. 50 dB is really low. The rule should be "50 dB if reasonably and cost-effectively possible". Besides, I'm wondering what these noise screens so close to the roadway will do for traffic safety, it obstructs the line of sight in curves.


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## katsuma

To be brutally honest, at times those soundwalls look to me as a fairly good way to hide ugliness of some neighbourhoods.


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## Sponsor

At least they could be more aesthetic

Kraków


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## MajKeR_

niskogradnja said:


> Sorry, but u have to learn how corruption works: More soundwalls- more money. (We need more walls here, and also there...)


Your scenario could exist 20 years ago, but today it's just maniacal care about electorate (less noise - more votes).


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## Fuzzy Llama

ChrisZwolle said:


> I hope Poland fixes its noise regulations, because this is completely over the top. Numerous new roads in Poland are excessively soundwalled to a point it becomes claustrophobic.


You know, this is not a motorway in a middle of nowhere, it's an urban thoroughfare build in the middle of existing urban fabric. There is a lot of existing and planned development around this road, and I'm not talking about two houses in the middle of nothing, there are and will be a lot of mid-rise residential development in direct proximity.
Also, it is an extremely difficult thing to build anything in this country without NIMBYs opposition. Such soundproofing numbs down the protests and is less expensive than years spent in court.


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## Mr. America

lukaszek89 said:


> I hate those soundwalls, but probably the reason is chaotic urbanisation as in mappero example, in Poland there are often houses in the middle of nothing...


I hope, but sometimes, when i see where they place it (sometimes in the middle of nowhere, with no houses or any other buildings, where it's really unnecessary) I'm affraid that the real reason is corruption, as in *niskogradnja* example hno:


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## ChrisZwolle

Fuzzy Llama said:


> Such soundproofing numbs down the protests and is less expensive than years spent in court.


That's what I mean by fixing regulation. 

I'm not saying there shouldn't any noise abatement at all, but all these 5 - 6 meter tall screens immediately next to the driving lanes are completely over the top, especially considering most buildings along the Northern Bridge and its approaches are at least 100 meters away from the highway. 

What's the exact noise level limit in Poland? In the Netherlands the preferred limit for road traffic noise is 48 dB but "escape clauses" to 53 dB in rural and 63 dB in urban areas are possible (as much as 73 dB in (rare) specific cases along railroads even). But if you go over them you need soundproofing. 

My apartment receives 81 dB due to a railroad by the way. But I prefer that over a giant noise screen that blocks my view. My apartment is soundproofed and I can barely hear the trains inside.


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## Blaskovitz

niskogradnja said:


> Sorry, but u have to learn how corruption works: More soundwalls- more money. (We need more walls here, and also there...)


Stupid talking... Just ask people who lives near motorways what they feel when this stupid "soundwalls" doesn't exist!!


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## Mr. America

Blaskovitz said:


> Stupid talking... Just ask people who lives near motorways what they feel when this stupid "soundwalls" doesn't exist!!


The problem is, that sometimes people don't want soundwalls in front of their homes - for example in Cracow, when new tram line was built. Unfortunatly, no one in Infrastructure and Communication Department cared about it, and the soundwalls were built hno:

It's crazy, isn't it? :nuts:


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## ChrisZwolle

The government is obligated to "protect its citizens from noise", so they have to install a noise screen, whether people like it or not. We've had similar cases in the Netherlands. However, this obligation usually only applies if there is a new or modified road, so existing violations of noise levels do not have to be mitigated. That's why you only see these giant noise screens along new or reconstructed roads, and Poland has a lot of them


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## JackFrost

just out of curiosity: why dont you use transparent soundwalls?


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## Switek

Pictures made by amiron from this thread.

The order of the pictures is from Konotopa road junction toward Stryków. You can clearly see why they build a "tunnel without the roof". 




























I guess there's the limit between D and E sections... Differences in the progress of the construction is so moving...


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## rakcancer

In Poland people are very hostile towards any tolled roads. Even in polish version of this this forum one of the most discussed issues is how much is going to be a toll on every newly built piece of highway. I think that comes from the times when everything like health services, education and also driving on roads were free of charges.
That is why also we have so many expressways to be built instead formerly planned as tolled motorways (S8, S3, S2)


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## ChrisZwolle

There is no such thing as a "free road". It's a taxed road, it's a toll road, or it's no road.


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## rakcancer

hehehe, explain that to our people. good luck


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> There is no such thing as a "free road". It's a taxed road, it's a toll road, or it's no road.


Initially Polish government allowed to prepare documentation for EU co-financing. However, there is a problem with economic return of this investment. The tunnel was slashed from the list o projects eligible for EU co-financing.

On the other hand, a lot of formal documents are ready, including AFAIK environmental assessment.

Currently the local administration took things in their hands and ordered a review of all economic / financial documentation in terms of possible public private partnership. Hard to say what will be the outcome of this.

The thing is that one must say to the people, that a tunnel might be feasible only ferry services (currently publicly financed) are abolished and the tunnel will be tolled. Naturally, the tolls would be considerably more expensive that current ferry fees.


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## rakcancer

ferry in Swinoujscie is for free? so now I am 100% sure there will be problem with tolling that tunnel. maybe tourist and trucks will pay, I don't think people from Swinoujscie would easily give up free ferry even if tunnel is much more convenient.


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## mcarling

I don't mind paying to use the roads I use. I prefer that to being taxed for roads I don't use. What I hate is stopping to pay tolls. Hungary's system of electronic vignettes is great. The toll booths in Poland and France are a horrible waste of time.


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## ChrisZwolle

I think Europe will follow the American example of all-electronic tolling; transponders for frequent users, license plate toll with an administrative fee for incidental users. As far as I know the EU is currently coordinating license plate database exchanges (which also means you will probably begin to receive speeding fines in other countries). This system is called the EETS (European Electronic Toll Service).


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## Coccodrillo

TBM river crossing for Gdansk air-sea link

http://tunneltalk.com/Poland-Apr12-...elected-for-Gdansk-seaport-river-crossing.php


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## kmieciu

*motorway S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów*

*S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów, section I*

viaduct WS2









viaduct WS2, in background viaduct WD1






















































In backgroung viaduct WA46 on highway A2 over S3, junction Jordanowo.

























[/QUOTE]



*S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów, section II*










































































Junction Świebodzin North









Junction Świebodzin North, behind us national road DK3 ______ <<<Gorzów Wlkp. - Zielona Góra >>>























































*S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów, section III*


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## Blaskovitz

Coccodrillo said:


> TBM river crossing for Gdansk air-sea link
> 
> http://tunneltalk.com/Poland-Apr12-...elected-for-Gdansk-seaport-river-crossing.php


And this tunnel will be 2x2?


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## delfin_pl

^^ yes


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## mcarling

Why is the S12 planned to go to Piotrków Trybunalski? It seems to me that it would be better to go west from Radom to Tomaszów Mazowiecki and then terminate at the intersection of the A1 and S8. In other words, the S8 (western portion) and S12 would be continuations of each other.

My suggested route would be significantly better for anyone wanting to continue north on the A1, west on the A2, or west on the S8 from the S12. It would also significantly improve the route between Wrocław and Warsaw. It would be slightly worse for anyone wanted to continue south on the A2 (e.g. to Piotrków Trybunalski or Katowice). My suggested route would be approximately 5 kilometers longer than the planned route.


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## Luki_SL

mcarling said:


> Why is the S12 planned to go to Piotrków Trybunalski? It seems to me that it would be better to go west from Radom to Tomaszów Mazowiecki and then terminate at the intersection of the A1 and S8. In other words, the S8 (western portion) and S12 would be continuations of each other.


The S12 is planned to go to Piotrków Trybunalski because expressway S74 is *planned* to go from S74/S12 interseciton (somewhere between Sulejow and Opoczno) to Tomaszów Mazowiecki and then terminate at the A1/S8 intersection.


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## mcarling

Luki_SL said:


> The S12 is planned to go to Piotrków Trybunalski because expressway S74 is *planned* to go from S74/S12 interseciton (somewhere between Sulejow and Opoczno) to Tomaszów Mazowiecki and then terminate at the A1/S8 intersection.


That would work too, but I would be more inclined to run the S74 south of Sulejów, south of Piotrków Trybunalski, northeast of Bełchatów, and terminate at the intersection of the S8 and S14. I believe my proposal would be both more efficient for more drivers and less expensive to build than the current plans.


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## Shenkey

rakcancer said:


> hehehe, explain that to our people. good luck


what you need is a way to finance roads without having to stop every 20km


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## Deadeye Reloaded

Coccodrillo said:


> TBM river crossing for Gdansk air-sea link
> 
> http://tunneltalk.com/Poland-Apr12-...elected-for-Gdansk-seaport-river-crossing.php


It seems that Herrenknecht wins every TBM contract in Poland. They delivered the TBMs for the Warsaw metro line II, too. :banana:


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## Uppsala

How is it going now with A2 from Łódź to Warszawa? Do they still think they can open it before Euro 2012?


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## rav00

I really dont think so. Progress of section C is ~40%.


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## JackFrost

^^ why was it never really a priority to connect Warszawa to the european motorway network? I mean its more or less understandable with Bucharest, since you go to Bucharest when you really want to go there. No real transit there. But Polands capitol is on a -when not on THE- major route to Russia.

I hope that A2 will be ready soon, even if a big and important city like Warszawa should have at least 5 motorways connecting it to everywhere.


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## ChrisZwolle

rav00 said:


> I really dont think so. Progress of section C is ~40%.


With 8 weeks to go.


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## Sunfuns

toonczyk said:


> MA-532 in Mszana again, the bridge that Alpine Bau said was impossible to build, they were kicked out of the contract in 2009, they won the tender again (despite claiming the bridge is unsafe and impossible to build!).


What exactly was so impossible about it? Just the time frame or some unusual technical issues? Nothing looks particularly special about either the length or the location...


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## Chris80678

Firstly is the A1 from Zabrze Północ (Wieszowa) to Pyrzowice (Katowice airport) still on schedule to open for use at the end of May? If it is than that may compensate somewhat for the severe delay in the opening of the A1 from Świerklany to the Czech border as it may help to ease congestion and speed up access between Katowice airport and Kraków where some Euro 2012 matches are being played. 

Secondly is the upgrade of the E67 8 between Modlińska and Marki (Warsaw) to expressway standard (S8) still on schedule to open for use at the end of May?
If it is than that may ease some of the congestion in Warsaw's northern suburbs during Euro 2012


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## Sorok

Hi guys,

I've recently driven via Olsztyn, and there was pretty decent road between Olsztyn and Mragowo (16). Not an expressway yet, but everything is in place to add another 2 lanes. And some construction near Mragowo. However I can't find anything on the planned maps. What's being built there? 

Thanks!


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## geogregor

Chris80678 said:


> ....Kraków where some Euro 2012 matches are being played.


There won't be any matches played, neither in Katowice nor in Krakow. The nearest host city is Wroclaw.


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## toonczyk

Sunfuns said:


> What exactly was so impossible about it? Just the time frame or some unusual technical issues? Nothing looks particularly special about either the length or the location...


Technical issues. This is not an ordinary bridge - it's a curved extradosed bridge, not very common around the world. According to Alpine Bau (and some experts they asked for opinions) the original design was flawed and dangerous. Author of the project and GDDKiA admitted it needed small changes, but claim it's perfectly safe and that both cases of damage to the construction were a result of Alpine's errors, not due to bad design. There is nothing we can say or do now, GDDKiA has protested against shutting down the construction site, we'll see how things progress. From my perspective it looks like lack of competence on Alpine's part, but who knows?


Sorok said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I've recently driven via Olsztyn, and there was pretty decent road between Olsztyn and Mragowo (16). Not an expressway yet, but everything is in place to add another 2 lanes. And some construction near Mragowo. However I can't find anything on the planned maps. What's being built there?
> 
> Thanks!


Bypass of Mrągowo is ready, part of DK16 near Biskupiec is under construction. It's not going to be an expressway, but a decent GP-class road. Here's a map with investments of lower than A/S class roads marked:
http://ssc-mapa.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/mapka-igorsel.png


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## geogregor

toonczyk said:


> From my perspective it looks like lack of competence on Alpine's part, but who knows?


I think there is more into it (unfortunately) but as you said, we'll see.


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## Sorok

toonczyk said:


> Bypass of Mrągowo is ready, part of DK16 near Biskupiec is under construction. It's not going to be an expressway, but a decent GP-class road. Here's a map with investments of lower than A/S class roads marked:
> http://ssc-mapa.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/mapka-igorsel.png


Thanks!


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## X236K

Is any part of A1 being tolled? Or about to be?


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## Janek0

X236K said:


> Is any part of A1 being tolled? Or about to be?


If you mean cars ≤ 3,5 t - now only Gdańsk-Toruń section is tolled. Lorries and buses pay for some other sections too with viaTOLL.


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## Luki_SL

X236K said:


> Is any part of A1 being tolled? Or about to be?





Janek0 said:


> If you mean cars ≤ 3,5 t - now only Gdańsk-Toruń section is tolled. Lorries and buses pay for some other sections too with viaTOLL.


You can find more infomations here : http://www.autostradaa1.pl/index.php?page=home&fpage=&lang=en


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## Chris80678

The upgrade of the E67 between Modlińska and Marki in Warsaw is now complete :banana:. It is now signed as S8 and it has full expressway status. Now if only the E67 between Modlińska and Prymasa Tysiąclecia 
(where it branches off to meet the future A2/S2 at Konotopa) were to be upgraded too than Warsaw would have a complete expressway between Marki and the A2/S2 interchange to serve as the city's northern ring road :cheers: but I doubt that this upgrade will happen anytime soon :bash:. The S8 expressway and the new Maria Skłodowska Curie bridge in Warsaw are now both showing on www.zumi.pl


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## ChrisZwolle

Did it really open and signed as S8? The thread on FPW was not very active in the past days.


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## rav00

Don't worry. An early opening wouldn't go unnoticed on FPW.
Modlinska - Marki is already labelled as S8 on zumi.pl, but that's about it.


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## Hetman

ChrisZwolle said:


> Did it really open and signed as S8? The thread on FPW was not very active in the past days.


No rush... It will take a time to be fully completed.
Nothing has changed since few weeks as regards traffic organization.
Internal tunnels are still being closed, traffic is routed thru external lanes, Marywilska junction still not finished, Labiszynska flyover as well.


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## mr.cool

Some more now optimistic news about the A2 Lodz-Warsaw route update on 16th April:

More than 24 percent of the binder came over last week (9-16 April 2012), the section B of the A2 motorway, which means that on this section of the middle layer is placed at 67 percent.

Located close to Warsaw section E has been arranged in 34 percent of the last layer, called. wearing (SMA), of which 12 percent was placed in the last week.

More and more layers of foundation and the binding is also in the middle section C, built by a consortium of Boegl Krysl the head - a layer of foundation there rose last week by 7 percent and now stands at 53 percent proficiency.

As every week we present detailed information on progress in laying the layers on each of the sections of the A2 motorway under construction Stryków - Konotopa.

The growth of each layer arranged on the A2 in the past 6 days, as of Monday, April 16:



Ep A - (leader: Eurovia)

layer of foundation - was 89% is 89% (no change)
binder - was 43% 44% (an increase of 1%)
SMA layer - 0% (no change)

Ep B - (leader: Mostostal):

layer of foundation - was 95% is 96% (an increase of 1%)
binder - was 43% 67% (an increase of 24%)
SMA layer - 0% (no change)

Ep C - (leader: Boegl & Krysl)

mrozoochronne-layer growth of 1%, increasing severity of 86%,
Stabilized layer of cement - an increase of 4%, rising 68% advanced
layer of foundation - 46% was 53% (up 7%),
binder - was 37% which is 38% (an increase of 1%)
SMA layer - 0% (no change)

Ep D - (leader: Strabag):

layer of foundation - was 94%, 98% (an increase of 4%)
binder - was 94% is 96% (an increase of 2%)
SMA layer - 0% (no change)

Ep E - (leader: Budimex):

foundation layer - 100%,
binding layer - 100%
SMA layer - was 22% is 34% (an increase of 12%)


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## mcarling

^^
From the above progress report, it looks like Section E will be the first to open, followed by Section D, then perhaps sections A and B together, finally followed by Section C. We'll see. Opening Section B before either Section A or C is open would not be very useful.


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## Capt.Vimes

Before (2011)




After (2012)





hno:
I never thought I could see this on DK1.


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## PLH

Bull.

It was like that in 2011, for no longer than a month. Now it's all fixed.


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## Capt.Vimes

Thanks for clearing that out :cheers:


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## DSzumaher

A few movies from me:

Westernmost section of A4.





The shortest motorway in Poland.





2-lane expressway in Lubusz.


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## ufonut

A1 Pyrzowice - Gorzyczki by tomekwrz


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## Orionol

^^ :applause:


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## Chris80678

Any update on a opening date for the A1 between Zabrze (Wieszowa) and Katowice airport? From the photos on the website for the A1 Pyrzowice Sosnica it looks more or less finished and ready to open


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## Groningen NL

Is it just me, or do they put lampposts every 10 m or something? I have never seen lampposts that close to each other. Is this the result of some kind of regulation or law, just like alle the soundwalls?


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## ChrisZwolle

When it the next motorway/expressway opening in Poland? The original plan called for a ton of openings in March/April/May, but so far we haven't seen a single one in 2012.


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## Janek0

The best summary available, made and maintained by Hetman.

Termin zakończenia wg kontraktu - date of completion by the contract
Termin oddania do ruchu * - revised date of completion
"x" in red circle means that contract date is 100% unreal and revised date is unknown



Hetman said:


> Dostępne także w Repozytorium


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## Kuras77

Groningen NL said:


> Is it just me, or do they put lampposts every 10 m or something? I have never seen lampposts that close to each other. Is this the result of some kind of regulation or law, just like alle the soundwalls?


If you're talking about this:
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/4515/thp1100681.jpg
Here will be PPO (toll collection point).


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## ChrisZwolle

A bit off-topic, but I noticed there are many "gated communities" in Warszawa, new developments which outsiders cannot enter by car, because there is a gate. They include both apartments and detached housing. Why is that?


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## fanalion

ChrisZwolle said:


> A bit off-topic, but I noticed there are many "gated communities" in Warszawa, new developments which outsiders cannot enter by car, because there is a gate. They include both apartments and detached housing. Why is that?


"Gated community" what a nice name for a ghetto... 
I personally see no advantages in living in such place hno:


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## maciekph

ChrisZwolle said:


> A bit off-topic, but I noticed there are many "gated communities" in Warszawa, new developments which outsiders cannot enter by car, because there is a gate. They include both apartments and detached housing. Why is that?


Kind of huge OT and sorry about that, this is rather discussion about public space planning, design of new neighborhood, etc. but...

Sometimes people would like to close themselves in fake better world, where there are no car thieves, no annoying offensive graffiti around, every one has parking space, etc.
I could understand that people would like to feel safe in terms of their own small public space but at the same time they destroy the neighborhood.

Nevertheless those kind of communities are being build because there is such a need "on the marked". Sad but true.


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## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> A bit off-topic, but I noticed there are many "gated communities" in Warszawa, new developments which outsiders cannot enter by car, because there is a gate. They include both apartments and detached housing. Why is that?


When you ask people, they'll tell you that they feel safer when there is a fence around their flat, gate at the entrance and a guard sitting in a booth. But obviously statistics don't support that - you're as likely to get your house robbed in a "gated community" as anywhere etc. I happen to live in a housing estate like that and as far as I know I'm the only person around here (out of a few hundred people) that thinks it's a bad idea. Recently a zoning plan has been finally proposed for our area and our "local" street is planned to be converted into a public road for everyone to access (which means - no more gates). This caused some serious protests in my community. There is a lot of smart and reasonable people here, but they just seem to completely ignore all arguments in this regard. Apparently many sociologists from western Europe have been studying this subject, it's something very specific to the Polish people - something in our mentality. Weird stuff.


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## ChrisZwolle

I've never seen a gated community in the Netherlands like in Poland, though apartment buidlings are basically the same. No outsiders can enter the hallways and front doors unless you have a key or are buzzed into the building.

By the way, are there parking norms in Poland? Like a formula that sets the amount of parking spaces for each type of development?


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## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> By the way, are there parking norms in Poland? Like a formula that sets the amount of parking spaces for each type of development?


AFAIK this is determined in zoning plans, but I don't know if there is any standard regulating this. Zoning plans determine how many parking spaces are to be provided for each type of development. For example in the zoning plan of my area it's determined that there are to be 10-18 parking spaces per 1000m^2 of offices, 15-25 per 1000m^2 of shops, at least 1 parking space for every 60m^2 of residential real estate etc.

The problem is that as of a few years ago there was pretty much no binding urban zoning. So for example in Służewiec Przemysłowy, office district of Warsaw, many office buildings were built with insufficient number of parking spaces and as a result every centimeter of sidewalks and lawns in the area is treated as a parking by people working there.


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## Agnette

Can anybody say me how much costs A2 toll road from Strykow to [PL/D] border? :gossip:


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## toonczyk

Right now it's ~63zł (15 EUR), but will get more expensive when the western section becomes tolled in May.


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## Groningen NL

Kuras77 said:


> If you're talking about this:
> http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/4515/thp1100681.jpg
> Here will be PPO (toll collection point).


Ok, that explains a lot.


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## kmieciu

*S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów - 15.04.2012*

*S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów - 15.04.2012 stretch I*


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## kmieciu




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## kmieciu

*S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów - 15.04.2012 stretch II *


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## kmieciu

Interchange Świebodzin South


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## wojnowianin

mr.cool said:


> - *Mrozoochronna layer* - was 87.5% is 92.5% (an increase of 5%)


Of course everyone can understand it:lol:


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## Luki_SL

Amazing pictures from motorway A1 in Silesia, taken by Bula 8:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=91008827&postcount=16033

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=91008827&postcount=16035


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## Chris80678

Luki_SL said:


> Amazing pictures from motorway A1 in Silesia, taken by Bula 8:
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=91008827&postcount=16033
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=91008827&postcount=16035


Great pics. A1 between Zabrze and Pyrzowice supposed to be open for traffic on Thurs 29th May 2012 if I remember rightly?


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## Luki_SL

^^ Yes, this part A1 is supossed to be open for traffic in the end of may. There is one think to be done - the constructors should work day by day without respite. I will check if they work on A1 in Bytom. Today we have feast, but I hope the works didn`t stopped


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## Capt.Vimes

Which motorways and expressways in Poland are financed by the EU. Where can I find such information? No problem if it is in Polish.


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## Nowax

[A1] Pyrzowice - Gorzyczki (CZ) by Bula8


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## mappero

^^So picturesque! But with those signage system it's way to bad for drivers.. No repeat signs on exits or enough big signs above on 3 or more lanes...

Compare with this below, where with this amount of vehicles there is no option to make wrong decision when want take exit or follow demand direction.


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## mmmartin

I'm going from Suwalki to Krakow. Which road do you recomend if I want to avoid Bialystok-Warszawa route and Kielce because of the road works? Last time I lost almost 3(!) hours between Piotrkow Trybunalski and Warszawa because of the road works. Thanks!


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## rav00

I think there's no point avoiding Kielce. AFAIK there are no major roadworks on DK7 (Kraków-Kielce-Warszawa) and there are even some bits of S7 expressway.

As for avoiding roadworks on DK8 Warszawa-Białystok, you could take Augustów-Grajewo-Łomża-Śniadów (road 677)-Ostrów Mazowiecka and then follow road DK50 through Łochów, Mińsk Mazowiecki, Góra Kalwaria up to Grójec and then join S7 towards Kraków.
But I'm not sure if it's going to be much faster because I rarely travel in this direction. (also, DK50 is kind of Warsaw's bypass for trucks and there are lots of them on this road).


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## Blaskovitz

*Views of S3*



kmieciu said:


> *S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów, obwodnica Świebodzina. Zdjęcia z punktu widokowego.*
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kmieciu said:


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*Rest:* http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=90974016&postcount=2470
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=90974347&postcount=2472


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## Blaskovitz

*S3 by DSzumaher*



DSzumaher said:


> ODCINEK 2, czyli Gorzów Wlkp. - Skwierzyna
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DSzumaher said:


> ul. Sulęcińska
> Rozmiar tego D-6, jakby docelowo miało być użyte na autostradzie.
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DSzumaher said:


> Zagadka dla niemiejscowych: Do jakiej miejscowości wjeżdżamy?
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DSzumaher said:


> cdn...





DSzumaher said:


> Tutaj jest odpowiedź na zadaną zagadkę.
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> cdn...


*And rest of great phptos by DShumaher!! It is really worth!!*

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=781324&page=125


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No offense, but is it really necessary to post all pictures? I mean some are very interesting, but others hardly show the new road under construction. Earthworks are not that interesting. Maybe it's better to post a selection with the most interesting pictures. 

This thread suffers from photo overload from time to time.


----------



## DSzumaher

Is this message to me?
Well, Polish users are very hungry for pics of the roads construction in every aspect. I would done the selection at H&A, but for now let it be.

BTW, I made 1.5 times more pictures than I post.


----------



## Blaskovitz

ChrisZwolle said:


> No offense, but is it really necessary to post all pictures? I mean some are very interesting, but others hardly show the new road under construction. Earthworks are not that interesting. Maybe it's better to post a selection with the most interesting pictures.
> 
> This thread suffers from photo overload from time to time.



Ok, but imo this pohotos are very detailed and imo it'sa very interesting because show to us all construction, every corner of a building :cheers:




DSzumaher said:


> Is this message to me?
> Well, Polish users are very hungry for pics of the roads construction in every aspect. I would done the selection at H&A, but for now let it be.
> 
> BTW, I made 1.5 times more pictures than I post.


No, it's for me


----------



## ufonut

Blaskovitz said:


> Ok, but imo this pohotos are very detailed and imo it'sa very interesting because show to us all construction, every corner of a building :cheers:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's for me


How about you post 2-3 photos and provide links to the rest ? You are spamming this thread a bit.


----------



## ufonut

rav00 said:


> I think there's no point avoiding Kielce. AFAIK there are no major roadworks on DK7 (Kraków-Kielce-Warszawa) and there are even some bits of S7 expressway.


As far as I know S7 from Skarzysko Kammiena to Kielce is under construction right now so YES there are major road works going on. 

Thread can be found here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=483774&page=151


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't think imposing a photo limit works, but posting the most interesting photos (a brief compilation if you will) and a link to the thread on FPW works fine.


----------



## rav00

ufonut said:


> As far as I know S7 from Skarzysko Kammiena to Kielce is under construction right now so YES there are major road works going on.
> 
> Thread can be found here:
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=483774&page=151


But it's not like it was 2x2 there and now half of it is closed due to roadworks. It was and still is 1x2. It's not as bad as on DK8.


----------



## Blaskovitz

ufonut said:


> How about you post 2-3 photos and provide links to the rest ? You are spamming this thread a bit.


I am spamming, and you write double posts.  :lol:


----------



## Iluminat

For some reason Polish users have problems with selection, it's like we can't decide what is really important or perhaps we can but still prefer to post everything we have "because it's better this way" it's the same with road construction, Warsaw skyline pictures and pretty much everything. Some people think it's because of our nationalism we want to show that Poland is developed "STRONG!!1" etc. but perhaps it have more to do with our education system :dunno:


----------



## ufonut

ViaToll stats:

37 milion transations per month
760.000 units sold so far
3000 transactions per month contested (making it less than 1%)
System will generate 1.1 bilion zloty by the end of the year and *pay itself off* in a record time. 
Fastest ViaToll deployment ever in less than 8 months (Czech Republic 12 months, Austria 18 months).
System will be expanded further in the next two months.


----------



## Surel

^^

Could you or someone else answer few questions? It would be great to know.

1. Who build and operates the whole system? How was the contract awarded?

2. What were the costs for building the system? Were the construction costs payed at once or is there some payment schedulle?

3. What are the maintanance costs? Are there lump sum maintanance yearly costs? Is there a fee from the total transactions?

4. Connected to the last point. What is the yearly gross and yearly net proffit of the system. And how much of this profit goes directly to the motorway funding.

Thx a lot.


----------



## bewu1

look here http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/9106/...-2018-wyniosa-236-mld-zl-bez-manka-na-e-mycie the page is in Polish, but I think that you will understand


----------



## Surel

Thx for the link.

They say that the total incomes between 2011 and 2018 are estimated at 23.6 mld zloty. And that the costs for which Kapsh builds it are at 4.9 mld zloty.

What is not clear to me is, whether these costs paid to Kapsh are also maintenance costs, or whether it is only for the construction. What are then the maintenance costs? This is crucial information for any evaluation of the whole thing.

Even if those 4.9 mld were already total costs over the whole period 2011-2018 I think that 21 % to the private hands of Kapsh is bit too much indeed (not counting the time value of money). Thus the story repeats.


----------



## Janek0

23.6 mld zloty - this is estimate for ETC (> 3,5 t and buses) + MTC (< 3,5 t)

1. Public tender, result: http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/d/6c11b2e65a1a9b14d7143c21a792fc4a
MyToll offered GNSS system but was defeated by Kapsch with DSRC system.

2&3&4. For ETC only









Source in Polish: http://www.pisil.pl/images/artykuly/2011/px_rozp_dk_i_wysokosci_stawek_11_03.pdf


----------



## Surel

Thx. So interestingly Kapsh offered yet better price than the competitor. 

In the data from this pdf the ratio that goes to Kapsh is even better. Full 26 %.  and not thinking the time value of money.

Anyway.It seems to me that the Polish system of public tenders (certainly in transportation) works much better than the Czech one and I expect much less corruption problems in Poland than in CZ. I like the Polish tendering.

Althoug, in general two competitors is not much and also auction system of tendering is yet better and would drive the price lower. Are there used auctions in Poland for some of the tendering?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ViaTOLL prices are relatively low, probably the cheapest electronic truck tolling system in Europe, at € 7 - 13 cents per kilometer, depending on Euro emission class. ViaTOLL should be able to raise € 1 billion per year if they apply German toll rates, and € 1.2 - 1.4 billion if they apply Czech toll rates (not to mention € 3.5 billion if they apply the ridiculous Swiss tolls).


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> ViaTOLL prices are relatively low, probably the cheapest electronic truck tolling system in Europe, at € 7 - 13 cents per kilometer, depending on Euro emission class. ViaTOLL should be able to raise € 1 billion per year if they apply German toll rates, and € 1.2 - 1.4 billion if they apply Czech toll rates (not to mention € 3.5 billion if they apply the ridiculous Swiss tolls).


We take our time.


----------



## ufonut

ViaToll might be cheap but it makes our long haulers competitive.

Aside from that the government will lower the tolls on government-owned highways by 50% beginning next month (if I am not mistaken).


----------



## kmieciu

A2 Stryków - Konotopa

Mega foto trip by *@mkuldane*, from A2 from junction Żyrardów to rest area Brwinów, 550photos. 


mkuldane said:


> Jedziemy z wspomnianą przeze mnie wczorajszą wycieczką.
> Zaczynam gdzieś w połowie drogi między węzłem Żyrardów i MA280. Widok w stronę Strykowa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obok ( po stronie północnej ) na serwisówce jest MD280


and by *@koszatek*, from Łagów to Ząbki. Also few hundred photos. :rock:



koszatek said:


> -> Konotopa:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -> Stryków:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do czego to służy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jadę dalej:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cdn.


----------



## bewu1

Surel said:


> Anyway.It seems to me that the Polish system of public tenders (certainly in transportation) works much better than the Czech one and I expect much less corruption problems in Poland than in CZ. I like the Polish tendering.
> 
> Althoug, in general two competitors is not much and also auction system of tendering is yet better and would drive the price lower. Are there used auctions in Poland for some of the tendering?


The public procurement system in Poland is quite clear - once you fulfill formal requirements, then you submit an offer, and the cheapest one win. This is most common solution.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It may not be the best solution, because usually you don't know whether a contractor did its job right or not until it's too late. Cheapest is not always the best, as you may have noticed with Strabag and COVEC.


----------



## and802

Chris, bewu1 simplified the situation.

usually there are more than one factor in public bids (controlled by UZP let me translate it onto: Public Bid Office). there are more then one criteria/factor. it could be something like 4-5 factors (time, price, references, guarantee period, etc) each one is clearly weighted.

anyway, the formal requirements bewu1 is mentioning should be strict enough to elimnate unwanted bidders - Crhis, in your example it did not work.


----------



## Surel

bewu1 said:


> The public procurement system in Poland is quite clear - once you fulfill formal requirements, then you submit an offer, and the cheapest one win. This is most common solution.


Yeah, I was just curious if there are auctions used in some cases. The auction is the most effective in any price setting activity where you have several competitiors.


----------



## bleetz

kmieciu said:


> A2 Stryków - Konotopa
> 
> Mega foto trip by *@mkuldane*, from A2 from junction Żyrardów to rest area Brwinów, 550photos.
> 
> 
> and by *@koszatek*, from Łagów to Ząbki. Also few hundred photos. :rock:


Fantastic stuff.


----------



## ufonut

May 1st, Section D, A2 between Lodz and Warsaw



vyoor said:


> Kilka fotek z części odcinka D. Stan na 1 maja. Jeśli pokręciłem coś z nazewnictwem obiektów to proszę o wyrozumiałość
> 
> *WD 290*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *WD 291*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *WD 292*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *WD 293*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *WD 295*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *WD 296*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *MOP Brwinów*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *MA 298*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *WD 300*


----------



## DITTRICH

I would like to thank the many contributors who have posted up information on the progress of the a2 from Swiecko to Warsaw. I spend around 1 month a year in Russia and I drive from London all the way to Dmitrov outside Moscow. I have watched progress every year and am hoping it will be fully "open" by August 2012. The charts of the weekly reports on the roads authority website suggest to me that even section "c" might be driveable by this time, given the current rates of weekly progress. My route through Poland takes in the A2, the S8, Lomza, Augustow and Sumalki. The first year I did this route there was only the original Nowy Tomysyl to Konin part of the A2 open. And I have one question: the nice grey boxes on columns (called poles in England) which take your picture in villages: are they set to 50kph, 60 kph or something a little higher? I try to follow speed limits in villages and this causes problems with the local drivers ;-)
Les


----------



## rav00

By law, speed cameras have to have at least +10kph tolerance, so if there's 50kph limit, photos are taken from 61kph up.
And before a speed camera there have to be warning sign.


----------



## E2rdEm

Full aerial coverage of A2 Warszawa-Łódź:
http://www.tvn24.pl/0,11347,,,przelec-z-blekitnym-24-nad-a2,raport.html
(Click the letters A-D on the map).

The tv journalists launched their helicopter and made those films to show us that this motorway isn't ready. That's why they didn't bother to fly over section E (where the contractor just yesterday asked the proper authorities for the paper called "certificate / permit to use").
EDIT: To compensate - here's a driving video of section E (and a little bit of D):


olszewik said:


>



Enjoy.


----------



## mcarling

Looking at the 4 videos posted above, I don't see how any one of these four sections could open before August. Now I'm hoping that the A2 from Warsaw to Łódź will open before the end of 2012.


----------



## Yamamoto

I agree. It does not look like it will be even partly available in 4 weeks, which of course is unfortunate. But the stadiums and a lot of other things are ready and pretty. 

The last 6-12 months there just seems to be more trucks on the DK50, and congestion is more frequent (Lowicz and Sochaczew can be really bad).

Does anyone know what the plan is for the trucks on A2? Will they have to leave for the DK50 on the Sochaczew/Zyradow and are there are long term plan for the trucks around Warszawa? 

PS: Why TVN24 did not go for the 1080p full-HD option, just for us on SSC... ;-)


----------



## macieii

DITTRICH said:


> And I have one question: the nice grey boxes on columns (called poles in England) which take your picture in villages: are they set to 50kph, 60 kph or something a little higher? I try to follow speed limits in villages and this causes problems with the local drivers ;-)
> Les


Between 23 and 5 the speed limit in Urban areas is 60 km/h, btw. The "lowest ticket" I have ever heard of was for 65 km/h on 50 km/h limit... But it was a secondary road, the Police may have been cash-sensitive there  Also I am not sure, but I think the grey columns are, or soon will be, illegal and will be replaced by the yellow/ orange ones.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

http://www.rmf24.pl/raport-euro2012...nie-bedzie-przejezdna-na-euro-2012,nId,604685

Polish media reports the A2 will not be passable in June.


----------



## toonczyk

To be precise - section C won't be (and only about half of it is a problem, east of DK50). We'll see what kind of detour they devise, hopefully utilizing as much of A2 as possible.


----------



## tonylondon

ChrisZwolle do you speak polish???


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Google Translate helps a bit  Though I can read some road-related words and phrases.


----------



## katsuma

^^ Are you of Czech origin by any chance?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Not to my knowledge.


----------



## tomibaranek

A4 during the construction between Korczowa (PL/UA border) - Radymno interchange.
All fotos made by *esce* :applause::applause::applause:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=91122972&postcount=3030
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=91123101&postcount=3031
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=91123132&postcount=3032
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=91123156&postcount=3033
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=91123179&postcount=3034
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=91131037&postcount=3041
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=91131069&postcount=3042
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=91131100&postcount=3043
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=91160341&postcount=3049
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=91160365&postcount=3050
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=91160390&postcount=3051
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=91160436&postcount=3052
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=91197033&postcount=3057
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=91197054&postcount=3058
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=91197086&postcount=3059
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=91197105&postcount=3060
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=91197123&postcount=3061
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=91197145&postcount=3062


----------



## [email protected]

Can someone please post some photos of this ongoing project in Warsaw presented in the video below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZBoCp9xoQQ&feature=related

It looks absolutely amazing! The tunnels and the scale of the works is crazy! 

The author of the video is very right when he says that 'these tunnels are a representation of the growth of Poland' though I would not say the tunnels themselves but the scale of the construction works and the amount of investments going on is a good representation of the growth of Poland.

Amazing! Go Poland Go!


----------



## kmieciu

This is S8 Powązkowska - Marki



chudzini said:


> Widzę, że temat lekko podumiera, więc wrzucę dwa zdjęcia wykańczanych półtuneli z wiaduktu Annopol





matrix4321 said:


> Jedno zdjęcie ode mnie z dzisiaj z trochę wyższej perspektywy. Miejsca ze zdjęcia chyba nie muszę tłumaczyć - ale z góry naprawdę bardzo ciekawie to wygląda.


and two videos from this road


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Węzeł Stryków*

Is there a recent aerial photo of the finished Węzeł Stryków? I'm wondering what it looks like in reality.


----------



## rakcancer

tomibaranek said:


> A4 during the construction between Korczowa (PL/UA border) - Radymno interchange.
> All fotos made by *esce* :applause::applause::applause:
> 
> 52.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This one is a beauty. Construction of A4 near Radymno in South-Eastern Poland.


----------



## mcarling

Someday in the future, perhaps in the 2020s or 2030s, the S22 should in my opinion be extended from Elbląg past Malbork, Starogard Gdański, Człuchów, Jastrowie, Wałcz, Gorzów Wielkopolski to Kostrzyn nad Odrą.


----------



## katsuma

ChrisZwolle said:


> katsuma said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you of Czech origin by any chance?
> 
> 
> 
> Not to my knowledge.
Click to expand...

No, that's fine. And I hope you didn't mind me asking, but I associated yourself with some reports about Czech motorways in the past... 



tomibaranek said:


> A4 during the construction between Korczowa (PL/UA border) - Radymno interchange.
> All fotos made by *esce* :applause::applause::applause:
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=91122972&postcount=3030
> (...)





rakcancer said:


> 52.
> http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv215/esce_album/A4/Wierzbna-Radymno/52a.jpg
> 
> This one is a beauty. Construction of A4 near Radymno in South-Eastern Poland.


Indeed, that's going to be a piece of fairly scenic motorway.

35.









115.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

katsuma said:


> No, that's fine. And I hope you didn't mind me asking, but I associated yourself with some reports about Czech motorways in the past...


I'm Dutch, I was on vacation in the Czech Republic last year. 



> Indeed, that's going to be a piece of fairly scenic motorway.


I'm afraid they'll ruin it with giant noise screens everywhere :gaah:


----------



## rakcancer

ChrisZwolle said:


> I'm afraid they'll ruin it with giant noise screens everywhere :gaah:


I hope not! there is nothing around that must be protected from noise except cows :lol:


----------



## katsuma

ChrisZwolle said:


> I'm afraid they'll ruin it with giant noise screens everywhere :gaah:


You could be right. So I'd better keep enjoying it now. :lol:


----------



## Lebanese_Almaghrebia

Nice highways funded with European money.

Thanks Brussels!


----------



## Widur

Lebanese_Almaghrebia said:


> Nice highways funded with European money.
> 
> Thanks Brussels!


 Hooray! :cheers::banana::cheers:


----------



## Kuras77

*kmieciu*, it was here a week ago:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=91076821&postcount=7946


----------



## Switek

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is there a recent aerial photo of the finished Węzeł Stryków? I'm wondering what it looks like in reality.


There's no longer "Węzeł Stryków". It has been renamed as "Węzeł Łódź-Północ" (Łódź North) since 2011.
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Węzeł_autostradowy_Łódź_Północ

The most recent pictutes I've found came from mid April. 

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=90436734&postcount=4176

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=90436884&postcount=4177

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=90437064&postcount=4178

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=90437239&postcount=4179

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=90437461&postcount=4180

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=90437644&postcount=4182

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=90437783&postcount=4183

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=90437950&postcount=4184

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=90438055&postcount=4185


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Thanks. Are there signs that indicate the name of Łódź Północ?


----------



## Switek

I don't know. I haven't seen them, so far.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

http://www.a1kowal-strykow.pl/

According to this website, A1 Kowal - Stryków should've been completed 30-04-2012. When will it open to traffic?


----------



## toonczyk

A1 Kowal-Stryków is supposed to be ready in July, but on one of the sections (C again - it has to be some kind of jinx!) the main contractor (Poldim) filed for bankruptcy... I'm not very familiar with the situation there, maybe someone else can estimate what are possible dates of opening.


----------



## E2rdEm

ChrisZwolle said:


> A1 Kowal - Stryków should've been completed 30-04-2012. When will it open to traffic?


That question has just been answered in the polish thread... in English.  So here you go:



grzesiu_hu said:


> The investment may be divided into two main sections: Toruń-Kowal and Kowal-Stryków (aka Łódź).
> 
> Till about a month ago there was hope that Kowal-Stryków will be ready in this month (subsections of this section had due date on 30 April 2012), or at least in June-July (with "smaller" delays). However with the *bankruptcy of Poldim*, who was building the road part of Sójki – Kotliska subsection it is not any more possible that the full Kowal-Stryków section will be open even this year. Eventually some other subsections of this section may be open until June-July, but for sure not the whole Kowal-Stryków section.
> 
> About the Toruń-Kowal section. It originally had due date 30 September 2012, and now it's said it has 2 months delay. So I'd guess the whole section will be open till the end of this year. However guys on the forum say some of it's sections have bigger delays, so it's also possible just some of it will be open this year.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Right, thanks 

Some more questions regarding A1;

As far as I know Pyrzowice - Zabrze-North is nearly completed. When will this open to traffic (together with a short section of S1)?

Second, is there more known about the cable-stayed bridge at Mszana? I'm assuming this won't open before the summer. 

Thirdly, is there any news on the Stryków - Pyrzowice front? As far as I know this was supposed to be some kind of PPP-project, but I'm wondering why construction hasn't commenced yet, especially the Stryków - Tuszyn section seems urgent to me, keeping in mind the construction of S8 will be finished in 2014.


----------



## Chris80678

ChrisZwolle said:


> Right, thanks
> 
> Some more questions regarding A1;
> 
> As far as I know Pyrzowice - Zabrze-North is nearly completed. When will this open to traffic (together with a short section of S1)?
> 
> 29th May is when A1 Zabrze North to Pyrzowice will open to traffic. Not sure about the S1 section


----------



## Luki_SL

^^It`s sure that Pyrzowice-Piekary Śląskie will open to traffic 29th may. The S1 section will be open in this time too. As for Zabrze North - Piekary, it is said to be open in the end of may, but there are many construction works to do yet.


----------



## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> especially the Stryków - Tuszyn section seems urgent to me, keeping in mind the construction of S8 will be finished in 2014.


This is not a PPP project, but design&build. For the time being almost everything is ready to commence works, but it will probably take another two months or so.


----------



## Janek0

ChrisZwolle said:


> Thirdly, is there any news on the Stryków - Pyrzowice front? As far as I know this was supposed to be some kind of PPP-project, but I'm wondering why construction hasn't commenced yet, especially the Stryków - Tuszyn section seems urgent to me, keeping in mind the construction of S8 will be finished in 2014.


 Stryków-Pyrzowice had been a PPP project, but it failed and design-build tender for most urgent Stryków-Tuszyn section was conducted. Tuszyn-Pyrzowice is now being designed too and it is under analysis for possibility of new PPP tender.


----------



## Sponsor

A2 finally reaching Warsaw. God, that took so long.



aeronauta pl said:


>


----------



## DITTRICH

macieii said:


> Between 23 and 5 the speed limit in Urban areas is 60 km/h, btw. The "lowest ticket" I have ever heard of was for 65 km/h on 50 km/h limit... But it was a secondary road, the Police may have been cash-sensitive there  Also I am not sure, but I think the grey columns are, or soon will be, illegal and will be replaced by the yellow/ orange ones.


I had picked up on that nuance which is why I asked - was wondering if the cameras had a variable "trigger" point which changed to say 70kph during the night.


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## DITTRICH

rav00 said:


> By law, speed cameras have to have at least +10kph tolerance, so if there's 50kph limit, photos are taken from 61kph up.
> And before a speed camera there have to be warning sign.


Thanks - not that I expect a polish ticket in my post box - but its good to know.


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## rav00

DITTRICH said:


> Thanks - not that I expect a polish ticket in my post box - but its good to know.


Things with speedcameras have only recently changed for better. Before that, cameras were mostly used to generate quite an income for districts that put those by their roads. It was leading to absurds like 7m PLN annual income (~1,75m €) in a district with population around 5-15k. But to earn like that, you had to hide speed camera in some bushes or trashcans...

Now it's like it should have been from the start - you know that there will be camera, so you have plenty of time to slow down, and drivers dont feel like they're being hunted.


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## toonczyk

We're starting to get a bit euphoric about the possibility of A2 being ready (passable) in three weeks. They are making huge progress, the pace is unbelievable. But still they'll need at least 15 rain-free days to make it, so we'll see how it goes.


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## mcarling

^^
Looking at today's quantitative progress report in the Polish language forum, sections B, D, and E look like they can be open in time. Section A looks unlikely (to me). Section C looks hopeless (to me), but maybe I'm too pessimistic. I agree that the progress is now rapid, and I hope it can all open before Euro 2012.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=91374903#post91374903


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## ChrisZwolle

The "podbudowy", I assume that is the "sub construction" or foundation of section C, is at 81% and increased 8% in the past week. I also doubt it if section C will be finished in time, the other segments are indeed at an incredible pace. Section B got 30% of its SMA wearing layer in just the last week and is now at 81%. Section D even 38%.


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## slavek24

Capt.Vimes said:


> Which motorways and expressways in Poland are financed by the EU. Where can I find such information? No problem if it is in Polish.


On www.gddkia.gov.pl You have to click "Serwis GDDKiA" and then "Fundusze Europejskie" (European Funds).


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## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> Does anyone know why the northern part of DK8 Piotrków Trybunalski - Warszawa is currently not converted to an expressway. Is it just because it's in another województwo? If I understand correctly, Mszczonów - Wolica will be an adaption of the existing road, but Wolica - S2 will be a new alignment west of the DK8 (bypassing Raszyn).


Exactly as you say, new corridor to bypass Raszyn and upgrade of existing DK8 south of Wolica. If you'd like to see exactly how is it going to look like, take a look at this map:
http://mapa.siskom.waw.pl/
Select "drogi krajowe" (national roads) on the right, planned S8 will be marked in blue. It's not U/C because environmental documentation etc. isn't ready or wasn't ready when the money was there. There is a tender for the Opacz-Wolica section (between S2 and DW721), the remaining part should be converted to an expressway within next 10 years


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## woyteck

SGJ said:


> Hi to all and greetings from the UK!
> 
> I wonder whether you can help with a journey that 2 friends of mine will make in a few weeks. I hope this isn't too much off topic!
> 
> They aim to travel from near Frankfurt an der Oder (just inside the Polish border) to the Lithuanian border on Tuesday 5 June, and then nearly 3 weeks later, from Lithuania to Radom on Monday 25 June.
> 
> My thoughts are that their plans are ambitious (I've heard that the queues through Augustow can be long, for example), but they're convinced that the travel times are realistic. What do you all think? I'm guessing that Euro 2012 won't affect things too much on either date but again I'm happy to be proved wrong...
> 
> Many thanks!


Hi, I only know the ravel times on the A2 part.
So Germany-Poland border - Poznan - 1:30 h
Poznan - Lodz - 1:45 h

These are approximate, within the speed limit or up to 10km/h above it.


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## Kuras77

A2 Stryków-Warszawa and the beautiful Poland! 



aeronauta pl said:


> 20.05.2012 Sunday godz. 20.15 - Ciemna i jasna strona mocy aka 431+000. Jestem na południu patrzymy na północ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Na zachód patrz w stronę Strykowa MA-288
> 
> 
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> 
> MA-288, dalej WA-287, następnie WD-286 ----> Stryków
> 
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> 
> MA-288, dalej WA-287, następnie WD-286 ----> Stryków
> 
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> Zbliżenie
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> Pod nami
> 
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> 
> Na wschód patrz w stronę Konotopa, kawałek podjazdu WD-290, następnie WD-291, dalej WD-292
> 
> 
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> 
> Pierwszy plan MA-289, WD-290, następnie WD-291, dalej WD-292 ----> Konotopa
> 
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> 
> Thanks for Watching
> 
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> 
> Będzie dobrze
> @Agusia dzięki, Twoje opracowanie rządzi


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## Vegito

mcarling said:


> ^^
> Looking at today's quantitative progress report in the Polish language forum, sections B, D, and E look like they can be open in time. Section A looks unlikely (to me). Section C looks hopeless (to me), but maybe I'm too pessimistic. I agree that the progress is now rapid, and I hope it can all open before Euro 2012.
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=91374903#post91374903


I am sort of hoping to find some post like this today again. Weekly updates like these are useful to see the progress.


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## mcarling

Vegito said:


> I am sort of hoping to find some post like this today again. Weekly updates like these are useful to see the progress.


Welcome to the forum *Vegito*!

This week's status report should become available this afternoon. Photos taken yesterday do not encourage hope of opening for Euro 2012.


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## Vegito

Thanks  I continued to check this forum every now and then. I've been registered for some time (2.5 years lol) but only posted once before. 
I will drive to Poland in June and hope to see the A2 ready till Warsaw then. It would help.. I will leave the A2 at the interchange with the S50.


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## mcarling

Vegito said:


> Thanks  I continued to check this forum every now and then. I've been registered for some time (2.5 years lol) but only posted once before.
> I will drive to Poland in June and hope to see the A2 ready till Warsaw then. It would help.. I will leave the A2 at the interchange with the S50.


There is a chance the A2 will open from Łódź to the new DK50 bypass sometime in June. I hope so. I'll be driving through Poland in August.


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## ChrisZwolle

About S8 Piotrków Tryb. - Warszawa again....

Are there already parts upgraded to a droga ekspresowa? Are they just opening an interchange at the time, or do they plan to open longer sections at once?


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## bleetz

SGJ said:


> Hi to all and greetings from the UK!
> 
> I wonder whether you can help with a journey that 2 friends of mine will make in a few weeks. I hope this isn't too much off topic!
> 
> They aim to travel from near Frankfurt an der Oder (just inside the Polish border) to the Lithuanian border on Tuesday 5 June, and then nearly 3 weeks later, from Lithuania to Radom on Monday 25 June.
> 
> My thoughts are that their plans are ambitious (I've heard that the queues through Augustow can be long, for example), but they're convinced that the travel times are realistic. What do you all think? I'm guessing that Euro 2012 won't affect things too much on either date but again I'm happy to be proved wrong...
> 
> Many thanks!



There aren't that many 'queues' as such near Augustow. The problem is that the roads are narrow and full of HGVs, and overtaking is very hard, so you end up being stuck in an unsafe road, surrounded by HGVs for a good half a day. Otherwise, I've done this journey many times and it isn't all that bad... Go via Lomza (exit S8/DK8 near Zambrow or Ostrow Mazowiecka), don't go all the way to Bialystok, not worth it yet. It depends how long you sleep, but if you leave in the early morning of day 1, you will be there by the evening of day 2. I usually stay in Poznan, it is a good half-way point and there are some good, cheap hostels there.


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## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> About S8 Piotrków Tryb. - Warszawa again....
> 
> Are there already parts upgraded to a droga ekspresowa? Are they just opening an interchange at the time, or do they plan to open longer sections at once?


There are no fully opened sections for the time being. Because the road is in operation all the time, it is hard to say whether they will finish one section at a time. However from what can be seen now they do not focus on one particular stretch, but works are spread rather evenly.


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## ufonut




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## mcarling

This week's progress report for the A2, translated into English:

Section A:

Foundation –100%
Binder – was 97% now 99% (increase of 2%)
Asphalt – was 3% now 13% (increase of 10%)

Section B:

Foundation –100%
Binder –100%
Asphalt – was 81% now 98% (increase of 17%)

Section C:

Foundation – was 81% now 93.7% (increase of 12.7%)
Binder – was 80% now 87% (increase of 7%)
Asphalt – 0% (no progress)

Section D:

Foundation –100%
Binder – 100% 
Asphalt – was 86% now 100% (increase of 14%)

Section E:

Foundation – 100%,
Binder – 100%
Asphalt –100%


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## Vegito

I'm afraid section A isn't gonna make it either before Euro 2012 . Section C is no surprise. An opening of section A, B and C somewhere later in the summer makes more sense I guess.


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## toonczyk

Section A was supposed to be opened temporarily with only foundation ready. They are already working on the final layer, which means they are way ahead of their schedule. Many people forget this, but it was section A that was the most delayed one in August 2011, there were barely any roadworks done - humus layer was removed, but not even on the whole length of that section! Eurovia has done wonders there, they pretty much built the motorway from scratch in 10 months.


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## ChrisZwolle

It's common (read: standard) in the Netherlands to let the earthworks consolidate for 3 - 12 months before any actual construction can take place. They do this to prevent subsidence after the road is finished. Do they do that in Poland as well, or are we looking at a lot of subsided motorways after 2015? Too fast construction can be problematic as well.


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## michael_siberia

Don't forget that 10 months ago some bridges had only Larsen walls!


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## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's common (read: standard) in the Netherlands to let the earthworks consolidate for 3 - 12 months before any actual construction can take place. They do this to prevent subsidence after the road is finished. Do they do that in Poland as well, or are we looking at a lot of subsided motorways after 2015? Too fast construction can be problematic as well.


12 months seems like a lot, but it is required for embankments to consolidate for at least a few weeks before further construction can resume (probably depends on the properties of materials used, height of the embankment etc.). There are some methods of shortening this period and hopefully the engineers responsible for A2 know what they're doing.


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## Chris80678

I think that realistically the best we can hope for is sections D & E of the A2 opening next week or perhaps in the first week of June if not middle of June which will at least allow traffic to get in and out of Warsaw more quickly (especially coming off S8 onto the A2 towards central Poland). If the traffic has to come off the A2 at the start/end of section D and back onto the E30/DK92 than it is better than nothing


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## Switek

mcarling said:


> This week's progress report for the A2, translated into English:
> 
> Section A:
> 
> Foundation –100%
> Binder – was 97% now 99% (increase of 2%)
> Asphalt – was 3% now 13% (increase of 10%)
> 
> Section B:
> 
> Foundation –100%
> Binder –100%
> Asphalt – was 81% now 98% (increase of 17%)
> 
> Section C:
> 
> Foundation – was 81% now 93.7% (increase of 12.7%)
> Binder – was 80% now 87% (increase of 7%)
> Asphalt – 0% (no progress)
> 
> Section D:
> 
> Foundation –100%
> Binder – 100%
> Asphalt – was 86% now 100% (increase of 14%)
> 
> Section E:
> 
> Foundation – 100%,
> Binder – 100%
> Asphalt –100%


From the original topic:



nevetss said:


> Stan faktyczny od najmniej zaawansowanego odcinka do ukończonych:


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## macieii

mcarling said:


> The part I would worry about is the A2 between Lodz and Warsaw. If they can deal with that detour and get through Warsaw at off-peak traffic times, they should be ok.


A2 should be open by then, as well as S8 through Warsaw. The only obstacle would be DK8 in Marki. On the way back, I see no problem at all... S8, Prymasa Tysiaclecia, Al. Jerozolimskie, Lopuszanska, Al. Krakowska. I wouldn't be too much worried about the traffic, it's July - the trafic should be low even at peak hours.


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## ChrisZwolle

Poland has currently 1200 kilometers of motorways under construction. I doubt if there were many times in European history when that has happened before...


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## ChrisZwolle

Are there any decent photos of the new signage leading up to the Konotopa interchange? So far I've only seen videos.


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## PLH

Strange as it may seem, no.


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## Rombi

rakcancer said:


> ^^ agree. no needs for pointless complains.


My main point was that there is way too much noise barriers. This has to change in a future because it's sick. 

Anyway you guys have to admit that we are definitely behind countries from region especially, Hungary.


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## rakcancer

^^
once again. check post #8142


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## mappero

ChrisZwolle said:


> Poland has currently 1200 kilometers of motorways under construction. I doubt if there were many times in European history when that has happened before...


Bedankt Chris! inderdaad


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## Agnette

ON 20 MAY A SIX-MONTH PERIOD OF TOLL FREE USE OF A 106 KM SECTION OF A2 ŚWIECKO – NOWY TOMYŚL COMES TO AN END



> As of 20 May, 22.00 hours, all drivers using A2 Motorway from Świecko to Nowy Tomyśl will pay tolls at the rates determined by the Minister of Transport.
> Car drivers and bikers will pay PLN 17.00 for the entire section...


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## mcarling

Charging tolls for motorcyclists is nuts. They do not cause any wear on the roads and do not significantly contribute to congestion. Charging motorcyclists the same toll as cars is completely crazy.


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## ChrisZwolle

Tolls are justified for all road users, even though motorcyclists do not cause any significant wear and tear (the exact same can be said of passenger cars), they use the strip of concrete that has been paid for.


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## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> Tolls are justified for all road users, even though motorcyclists do not cause any significant wear and tear (the exact same can be said of passenger cars), they use the strip of concrete that has been paid for.


The relevant economic question is whether or not the good (the strip of concrete) is rivalrous i.e. does one person using it prevent another person from using it. I can't remember the last time a motorcyclist used the road in a way that kept me from using it the way I wanted, but cars and trucks do so every day. Motorcyclists nearly always manage to stay out of the way of other road users. And, no, I'm not a motorcyclist.


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## Surel

^^
The strip of concrete depreciates whether you use it or not as a motorcyclist.

The strip of concrete costs resources that could have been used elswhere. The only reason for using them for the concrete is your demand as a motorcyclist. The logical conclusing is, that your profit from using it, must be even or bigger as the costs of making it.

Since you profit from it, it is perfectly fine that you also pay for it. If you did not pay you wouldnt have it and you would not profit. Thus any costs lower than your profit are reasonable.


The practical point you may reffer to, is when the motorcycle toll is the same as of a 4 wheel vehicle... that indeed makes little sence.


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## mcarling

Surel said:


> The only reason for using them for the concrete is your demand as a motorcyclist.


Here is the flaw in your logic. Using the current example of the A2, the A2 would have been built anyway even if there were no demand at all from motorcyclists. So, the idea that the money was used to build the A2 only because of demand from motorcyclists doesn't stand.


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## Surel

^^??

So, they have built the A2 even if there was no demand to use it? Why did they build it then?

Motorcyclist was just an example... There is no flaw in my logic.

Whenever the motorcyclist uses it, he is part of the demand. If he did not want to use it, he would simply not use it. Thus there is nothing wrong with charging him money whenever he uses it. When you use something you do it becuase if you did not you would be worse off.


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## mcarling

^^ ???

Maybe you meant "motorist" rather than "motorcyclist" in your sentence which I quoted above?


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## E2rdEm

^^ Ok. Let's ban motorcycles from tolled roads. That way they won't pay tolls. 

What do you say to that? :tongue4:


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## Surel

mcarling said:


> ^^ ???
> 
> Maybe you meant "motorist" rather than "motorcyclist" in your sentence which I quoted above?


I was answering to someone who talked about motorcyclist, thus I used motorcyclist to explain why even a motorcyclist should be paying.


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## mcarling

To the extent that a motorcyclist's use of the road is rivalrous, i.e. that it prevents someone else from using the road, then an argument can be made that a motorcyclist should have to pay. However, in my experience, a motorcyclist's use of the road is generally non-rivalrous.

The demand for motorways would be essentially the same even if there were no motorcyclists.


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## LMB

mcarling said:


> The relevant economic question...


...is the depreciation of the highway. It has to be repaired whether you drive or not, besides the wear. Such things as winter cracks are only partially due to traffic. So if there's a client, the client will be charged. 

But I agree that charging the same price for motorcycle is insane.


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## ChrisZwolle

How big is the problem anyway? For most motorcyclists long-distance motorways are pretty boring and otherwise they generally make up less than 0.5% of the traffic. 

If you're talking about a toll differentiated by wear and tear, trucks should pay dozens of times more than passenger cars. The axle load of a truck is generally 15 - 20 times higher than a passenger car. I've read one heavy truck causes the same wear and tear as 100.000 passenger cars. 
Because pavement and structures are rated for heavy trucks, passenger cars generally cause no measurable wear and tear at all.


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## E2rdEm

mcarling said:


> The demand for motorways would be essentially the same even if there were no motorcyclists.


Let's say I'm an average car-user of the tolled road.
I use only a small fraction of the surface, don't I? So my way of using the road is non-rivalrous. There is no way I've prevented anyone from using the road. Why should I pay for the road?

The demand for motorways would be essentially the same even if I wasn't using them. Logical conclusion - according to @mcarling - I shouldn't pay for the road. 


And, by the way, every time I see a motorbike on a plain highway outside built-up area, they use the middle of the lane. Their occupancy of the road is essentialy the same as for a passenger car. It is stupidly unsafe to drive a motorbike any other way on highways & motorways. How can you say it's not a "rivalrous use" then?


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## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> I assume there are no rest areas on the new section from Stryków to Konotopa. I also assume there are no exits yet operational between Stryków and Grodzisk M., is that correct? That would mean a motorway with no exits for 75 kilometers, unique in Europe and perhaps the world.
> 
> I'm not entirely sure, but I checked Polish Wikipedia and noticed the last eastbound gas station is just west of Konin. This means there are no gas stations for the next 200 kilometers to Warszawa. It may be a good idea to advise motorists about this situation. No gas stations and no way to exit. It wouldn't surprise me if the Polish roadside assistance will have to refuel stranded vehicles on this section.


Rest areas should be opened within two weeks, but there will be no petrol stations (they are planned to be opened in late 2013). So only parkings, restrooms, some benches and playground for kids. I'm not sure if they will manage to open all rest areas on sections A and C next week, but there will be at least 2 rest areas (in each direction) between Grodzisk and Stryków ready. As for exits - I think interchange with DK70 should be operational from day one, I don't know what's the situation on section A. Interchange with DK50 on section C probably won't be opened until July.

There is a petrol station about 30km before current A2 ends, so it's gonna be about 120km between last petrol station on A2 and Warsaw (and finding one within the city might not be that easy either). I hope there will be proper signs informing drivers that they are passing the last petrol station for another 120km, but even with the best possible signage I'm sure there will be some people who run out of fuel. Let's hope this doesn't cause any dangerous situations.


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## ChrisZwolle

toonczyk said:


> There is a petrol station about 30km before current A2 ends, so it's gonna be about 120km between last petrol station on A2 and Warsaw (and finding one within the city might not be that easy either).


Ah, right, MOP Chrząstów. There is an Orlen in both directions. Google Earth imagery doesn't show it yet.


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## Aphelion

Google maps is showing A2 already, apart from the stretch Stryków-Dmosin.


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## rav00

^^ They didn't draw Konotopa junction but have already drawn part of non-existent S2. What a mess...


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## kmieciu

S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów, Stretch Świebodzin - Sulechów by *Arturas *



Arturas said:


> 121. Na północ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 122.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 126.





Arturas said:


> 175.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 176. WD 24
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 177.Kolor-róż,wściekłe gacie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 178.
> 
> 
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> 
> 181.


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## Blaskovitz

rav00 said:


> ^^ They didn't draw Konotopa junction but have already drawn part of non-existent S2. What a mess...



And A2 from Rzepin to german border...


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## mcarling

rav00 said:


> [Google] didn't draw Konotopa junction but have already drawn part of non-existent S2. What a mess...


Yes, Google screwed up, but I'm happy that they are taking a more pro-active approach. Let's see how long it takes for them to fix it.


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## mcarling

*S7 Radom Bypass*

It seems like the S7 bypass of Radom has been out for tender for about two years. Does anyone know what's going on?


----------



## toonczyk

mcarling said:


> It seems like the S7 bypass of Radom has been out for tender for about two years. Does anyone know what's going on?


Yeah, we're out of money 
Back in late 2010 when the financial crisis hit us, many tenders were canceled, but Radom bypass was one of those few that weren't. There was a slight hope we'd get the money for it, unfortunately that never happened.


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## MAG

mcarling said:


> Yes, Google screwed up, but I'm happy that they are taking a more pro-active approach. Let's see how long it takes for them to fix it.


As far as I know, Google & partners were asked by the authorities to get their finger out and update their on-line maps in time for Euro 2012. It's quite amusing watching the A2 and other main routes grow longer day by day at breakneck speeds. 

It looks like the A2 will run from PL/D border to Warsaw by this weekend, at least virtually. And it won't be long before reality catches up. It's almost like watching a good film. Pass the pop corn, please ... opcorn:


.


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## AUchamps

ChrisZwolle said:


> A2 appears to be entirely passable now.
> 
> Some questions:
> 
> I assume there are no rest areas on the new section from Stryków to Konotopa. I also assume there are no exits yet operational between Stryków and Grodzisk M., is that correct? That would mean a motorway with no exits for 75 kilometers, unique in Europe and perhaps the world.
> 
> I'm not entirely sure, but I checked Polish Wikipedia and noticed the last eastbound gas station is just west of Konin. This means there are no gas stations for the next 200 kilometers to Warszawa. It may be a good idea to advise motorists about this situation. No gas stations and no way to exit. It wouldn't surprise me if the Polish roadside assistance will have to refuel stranded vehicles on this section.


Insert Polish Joke.


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## LMB

AUchamps said:


> Insert Polish Joke.


Patronizing.


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## Agnette

mcarling said:


> I won't be driving that way until August, so any time in June or July would be fine with me.


I went A2 (from intersection with road 579 towards Warsaw) yestеrday. Generally perfect motorway, but annoying soundscreens.


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## cougar1989

That's are the new toll-prices from Poznan to the PL/D-Border near Swiecko








PPO Goluski is near Poznan and PPO Tarnawa is near Swiecko


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## ChrisZwolle

Facepalm:


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## Agnette

mcarling said:


> Yes, Google screwed up, but I'm happy that they are taking a more pro-active approach. Let's see how long it takes for them to fix it.


The better way is to wright report to Tele Atlas


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## Chris80678

So tonight or tomorrow is when the A1 from Zabrze Północ to Pyrzowice 
and the S8 from Modlińska to Marki both open for use :cheers: Hope to see more motorway and expressways openings soon and the A1 extended north to
Częstochowa next year


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## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> Facepalm


Never ever trust arrows on signs in Poland.


----------------------


A1 and S1 open tommorow after 10 pm


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## Blaskovitz

Na prawo most, na lewo most, a dołem Wisła płynie!  :bowtie:



marekjoz said:


> A mnie ciągle cieszą już oddane odcinki
> Temat już wyeksploatowany ale jeśli ktoś chce jeszcze spojrzeć na wczorajsze D i E w stronę Grodziska, to zapraszam na wesoło i na szybko (3 minuty)


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## ChrisZwolle

PLH said:


> Never ever trust arrows on signs in Poland.




It turns into a Poltaly. At least they use the same term for a motorway...


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## ChrisZwolle

Question about S11.

Did the northern section of S11 also open yesterday evening?


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## Andrzej_3598

ChrisZwolle said:


> Question about S11.
> 
> Did the northern section of S11 also open yesterday evening?


No, only upper part of bottom section. Tarnowo Podgórne - Dąbrówka.


----------



## seba65536

I've heard in some interview with man from GDDiK, that Polish climate supposedly makes it very hard to build roads that lasts for long without holes. It's because roads detoriate the most, when it's wet, and there are many changes of temperature across freezing point (so water in microholes freeze, and melt, and freeze, and melt, making these holes bigger and bigger every time).

In Poland we have many such changes every winter, so roads break faster than in countries with less variable climate.

I don't know, if it's just excuse, thought - Germany has similiar climate, and their seems OK.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Another question, concerning S8 Trasa Toruńska in Warszawa. When will this open to traffic? It was suppose to open May 31st, but apparently there were some issues, meaning the S8 could not open to traffic. Are these major issues, i.e. can we expect a multi-month delay, or is an opening of the road imminent?


----------



## Andrzej_3598

ChrisZwolle said:


> Another question, concerning S8 Trasa Toruńska in Warszawa. When will this open to traffic? It was suppose to open May 31st, but apparently there were some issues, meaning the S8 could not open to traffic. Are these major issues, i.e. can we expect a multi-month delay, or is an opening of the road imminent?


I was driving it on Sunday, It is not so far from being completed, but I do not expect it will happen before Euro2012. The main road was supposed to be opened 2012-05-31, but they did not get permission.
I foresee July, August (this year ;-)


----------



## Blaskovitz

*S69 Bielsko-Biała - Żywiec*



marek_kocjan said:


> To i ja dodam trochę widoków z okolic WS5:


----------



## Andrzej_3598

Andrzej_3598 said:


> No, only upper part of bottom section. Tarnowo Podgórne - Dąbrówka.


I was wrong. It looks that entire south section has been opened - up to A2 highway.


----------



## Superkot634

:crazy:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The video is 4 years old, but it's fun  Where is this? DK1/8? (Gierkówka).


----------



## toonczyk

^^ Apparently DK8 about 25km south of Warsaw. Tough conditions, unfortunately it's unavoidable when it rains this heavily...


----------



## mcarling

toonczyk said:


> Tough conditions, unfortunately it's unavoidable when it rains this heavily...


The road could be crowned more or porous asphalt could be used.


----------



## toonczyk

^^ Maybe, but during a heavy cloudburst (it's not uncommon here during summer to have very short cloudbursts with precipitation reaching over 20mm/min) there is always going to be a layer of water on the road. In this case however I think the biggest problems were ruts filling up with water...


----------



## mappero

mcarling said:


> The road could be crowned more or porous asphalt could be used.


Porous asphalt won't survive the winter...
But true, something need to be done otherwise this road should be closed when is raining... or speed limit decrease to 50 km/h.


----------



## toonczyk

mappero said:


> or speed limit decrease to 50 km/h.


And how about drivers use common sense and adjust their speed to conditions on the road?


----------



## mcarling

toonczyk said:


> I think the biggest problems were ruts filling up with water...


I think you're probably right.



toonczyk said:


> And how about drivers use common sense and adjust their speed to conditions on the road?


Exactly! That's the reason why I oppose fixed speed limits; drivers drive at the speed limit rather than paying attention to road conditions and driving accordingly.


----------



## mappero

^^ I don't want even mention this...
Education and culture on road should be bigger part of learning process. Driving a car it's not just keeping steering wheel and pushing gas/brakes...


----------



## geogregor

mappero said:


> Porous asphalt won't survive the winter...
> But true, something need to be done otherwise this road should be closed when is raining... or speed limit decrease to 50 km/h.


Condition like this might happen everywhere, people just have to slow down regardless of the speed limit.
I drove few times in torrential rain in the US (I mean really torrential, never seen anything like this in Europe) and people slowed down or even exited freeway on the nearest junction to wait over the worst. I did stop for 15 min because it was almost impossible to drive.
You can't set speed limits for every possible condition.


----------



## Agnette

Can anybody explain me, what does it mean?: Obwód utrzymania autostrady


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Maintenance center:


----------



## rav00

geogregor said:


> Condition like this might happen everywhere, people just have to slow down regardless of the speed limit.
> I drove few times in torrential rain in the US (I mean really torrential, never seen anything like this in Europe) and people slowed down or even exited freeway on the nearest junction to wait over the worst. I did stop for 15 min because it was almost impossible to drive.
> You can't set speed limits for every possible condition.


Last August, I was forced to drive 50-60kph on S7 expressway - the rain was that heavy. Everyone else slowed down as well.
Fortunately, such rains happen to be short.


----------



## mcarling

rakcancer said:


> well, there is much higher priority in western and central Poland to connect important for our economy cities. beside A2 would mostly serve as a transit route for our eastern neighbors (Russia, Belarus). There is even no single over 100K city between Warsaw and belarusian border. For eastern Poland much more important *at the moment* is to finish S8 between Warsaw and Bialystok, S17 between Warsaw and Lublin and A4 all the way to Ukraine border.


I agree. Completing the A2 to the Belarus border would be good, but completing the S8 to Białystok, the S17 to Lublin, and the A4 to the Ukraine border are more urgent. Resources are limited and need to be prioritized where the benefits will be greatest.


----------



## katsuma

woyteck said:


> I have some friends from Eastern Poland (east of Warsaw) and they constantly tell me that they feel neglected by the government.


It's interesting, as I've thought the govt think of development of Eastern Poland quite closely...

http://www.polskawschodnia.gov.pl/

Seemingly that program has been subject of _jealousy_ of western voivodships (regions), who would like to have something similar put in place.


----------



## HS

A nice ride from Świerklany to Pyrzowice airport made by rybnik.com.pl (local news portal):

43466004


----------



## rakcancer

There is announcement from GDDKiA that whole A2 between Strykow and Warsaw will be open tomorrow. 
http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomo...ie_przejezdna_w_czwartek.html?lokale=warszawa


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's notable that this will also pass the A4 for being the longest continuous Autostrada in Poland. A4 stretches 455 kilometers, A2 stretches just a mite further: 456 kilometers.


----------



## ufonut

Decision on what happened with that bridge on A1 has been published. Alpine Bau's poor work quality was the reason the work had to be stopped. Constuction will be resumed, bridge design was OK, no need to tear it down.


----------



## rakcancer

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's notable that this will also pass the A4 for being the longest continuous Autostrada in Poland. A4 stretches 455 kilometers, A2 stretches just a mite further: 456 kilometers.


Just for little while. A4 soon will extend to the east.


----------



## svt11

Hi, I was living in Poland in 1995=1998 and I remember that you had some expressways mostly. Are you upgrading them now to autobahns or you're building new roads? Because, here in Bulgaria we won't have enough money to build Hemus motorway and from Turnovo to Shumen it will be expressway. Government says some day it'll be upgraded to motorway and I can't understand how?


----------



## rav00

^^ No upgrading. There will be only 3 long motorway streches in Poland (A1, A2, A4). A6, A8, A18 will stay short. The rest will be expressways, and that's even better for us, since expressways are not tolled for cars <3,5t.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

rav00 said:


> since expressways are not tolled for cars <3,5t.


I wouldn't take that for granted though, several new expressways do have space for an SPO* at each exit. Maybe not now, but who knows where we are in 10 years? 

* toll station (at a trumpet interchange).


----------



## Janek0

We are not upgrading expressways to motorways. However, it may be possible on some stretches. For example, S3 was formerly planned as A3 and section Szczecin-Gorzów Wielkopolski was built with downgraded motorway plans, so one day possibly could be converted to motorway.

But we have two dual carriageways which are planned to be upgraded to motorway: 1 Piotrków Trybunalski-Częstochowa and 18 Olszyna-Golnice.

ChrisZwolle, I hope in 10 years nobody would pay for motorways on toll booths as in Middle Ages. 
If you think about space for SPO on S3 it is due to what I've written before - it was planned as motorway before.


----------



## svt11

So, new motorways are not upgraded old expressways?


----------



## Janek0

svt11 said:


> So, new motorways are not upgraded old expressways?


Definitely not, new motorways are new roads. Also, in 1995-1998 we had very few expressways...

Check here: http://www.martins99.za.pl/npd.swf


----------



## Chris80678

But we have two dual carriageways which are planned to be upgraded to motorway: 1 Piotrków Trybunalski-Częstochowa and 18 Olszyna-Golnice.

It will a long time before these two routes are upgraded to motorway status hno:


----------



## toonczyk

Chris80678 said:


> But we have two dual carriageways which are planned to be upgraded to motorway: 1 Piotrków Trybunalski-Częstochowa and 18 Olszyna-Golnice.


But those have never been expressways. What's more, both were planned as motorways from the start. A18 used to be a motorway, while DK1 was actually meant to be built as one, but for financial reasons in the "first phase" (which lasts 36 years already) no overpasses and grade separated junctions were built.


----------



## Luki_SL

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's notable that this will also pass the A4 for being the longest continuous Autostrada in Poland. A4 stretches 455 kilometers, A2 stretches just a mite further: 456 kilometers.



A4 is 444,4 km long  Its last km of A4: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=szaró...=aep1Skgqd_G8s29EPZiHGg&cbp=12,251.84,,1,8.65


----------



## rakcancer

Luki_SL said:


> A4 is 444,4 km long  Its last km of A4: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=szaró...=aep1Skgqd_G8s29EPZiHGg&cbp=12,251.84,,1,8.65


wow! I love that google street view. Hard to hide anything


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Ah, I missed the exit numbering jump at Balice (10 km).


----------



## mcarling

Janek0 said:


> I hope in 10 years nobody would pay for motorways on toll booths as in Middle Ages.


I don't mind _*paying*_ tolls. I very much mind _*stopping*_ to pay tolls.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

S8 in Warszawa will open this evening / night:

http://warszawa.gazeta.pl/warszawa/...w_nocy_wreszcie_otwieraja_Trase_Torunska.html


----------



## dugiPL

Section C of A2 has just been opened :cheers:


----------



## PLH

A2 Opened to traffic! 










Health&safety people won't be happy


----------



## toonczyk

^^ Nope, still closed, but will be opened in a few moments. We hoped for more openings in these weeks, unfortunately many roads are delayed... but still, what's happening here right now is really life changing for millions of people. It's really hard to believe that Warsaw is getting a motorway connection with Europe.


----------



## RipleyLV

Just heard on RMF FM. Congratulations! :cheers:


----------



## Chris80678

Go Poland! :cheers: Many people doubted that the A2 between Łódż and Warsaw would open before Euro 2012 but how wrong they were! Berlin and Warsaw now have a complete motorway connection 
(apart from that small non motorway part at the former Świecko border checkpoint). Warsaw has joined western Europe people (in terms of a direct motorway connection) :banana: Today I am so proud to be half Polish. 
Now Poland's infrastucture construction progress is just staggering. I know that there is still a long way to go but Poland is gonna get there I know it ^^ Two top priority projects now complete - the A2 to Warsaw and the 
S8 Modlińska Marki expressway in Warsaw. Well done Poland! Well done!


----------



## michael_siberia

A2 is still closed!


----------



## dino2010

*Poland* is Tiger of Europe! That's truth!


----------



## Agnette

As I understand, driving A2 from point A to point B is toll free:


----------



## michael_siberia

Yes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It opens currently at Grodzisk M. They are removing the barriers. Traffic is entering the motorway! First truck was a Russian truck.


----------



## michael_siberia

A2 was opened about 11:17 PM.


----------



## Des

Chris80678 said:


> Go Poland! :cheers: Many people doubted that the A2 between Łódż and Warsaw would open before Euro 2012 but how wrong they were! Berlin and Warsaw now have a complete motorway connection
> (apart from that small non motorway part at the former Świecko border checkpoint). Warsaw has joined western Europe people (in terms of a direct motorway connection) :banana: Today I am so proud to be half Polish.
> Now Poland's infrastucture construction progress is just staggering. I know that there is still a long way to go but Poland is gonna get there I know it ^^ Two top priority projects now complete - the A2 to Warsaw and the
> S8 Modlińska Marki expressway in Warsaw. Well done Poland! Well done!


:cheers: 

I'm very happy for Poland and the Polish people! I hope the new highways bring a lot of prosperity! 

One sad note though, anyone who has driven between the German border and Poznan will undoubtedly remember all the petrol stations with parking lots full of trucks and the many local shops and motels that relied strongly on all the travelers passing through their towns. They will most likely suffer a big drop in business now the highway is open but hopefully this is soon overcome by the overall economic opportunities the improved infrastructure brings


----------



## UPR20

Tonight at around 23:19 the last missing section of A2 motorway between Warsaw and Germany was opened. 

We are still waiting for a section of S8 expressway between Vistula river and Marki to open later tonight.


----------



## Lankosher

No bad, isn't it?


----------



## sotonsi

UPR20 said:


> Tonight at around 23:19 the last missing section of A2 motorway between Warsaw and Germany was opened.
> 
> We are still waiting for a section of S8 expressway between Vistula river and Marki to open later tonight.


There's still another ~36 hours until Euro 2012 starts - not last minute openings at all!


----------



## woyteck

katsuma said:


> It's interesting, as I've thought the govt think of development of Eastern Poland quite closely...
> 
> http://www.polskawschodnia.gov.pl/
> 
> Seemingly that program has been subject of _jealousy_ of western voivodships (regions), who would like to have something similar put in place.


Interesting website.
I can only say that we (Poles from western Poland) managed to develop things ourselves, while in Eastern Poland they need help. 
This is just the difference in mentality being our heritage since the Division of Poland.

End of OT from my side.


----------



## ufonut

woyteck said:


> Interesting website.
> I can only say that we (Poles from western Poland) managed to develop things ourselves, while in Eastern Poland they need help.
> This is just the difference in mentality being our heritage since the Division of Poland.
> 
> End of OT from my side.


Phleeze. Eastern Poland lost majority of its territory after 1945 including almost all of its cultural and commercial centers. 60 years of communism destroyed the rest. It will take time.


----------



## Groningen NL

Good news, if Poland keeps investing in their infrastructure the economic growth should stay substantial.


----------



## rav00

GDDKIA says: S8 is now open.

https://twitter.com/gddkia/status/210522718293069824


----------



## snowdog

ufonut said:


> Phleeze. Eastern Poland lost majority of its territory after 1945 including almost all of its cultural and commercial centers. 60 years of communism destroyed the rest. It will take time.


You can still see the difference in Railroads too though, there are FAR more old railways from pre ww2 in the old German territories than in the Polish ones. The German areas had better develloped infra...









Except around Krakow/Katowice, the rest of Poland seems to have significantly less rails than in the west.


----------



## Iluminat

mcarling said:


> The destruction of Warsaw began in World War II and continued until 1989. The phoenix began to rise from the ashes only in the 1990s.


hardly.


----------



## mappero

maciekph said:


> On Motorways and Expressways you can go up to 10 kmph above given limit without ticket, only because 10kmph margin is set to speed cameras. As far as I know police with manual speed measuring stuff is not obligated to that 10kmph margin.
> 
> So you can go without any problems (still against the law but w/o ticket) 9.9 kmph above speed limit on finish and completely ready dual carriageway motorways and expressways.
> 
> Note: For example on brand new A2, where there is no final layer ready on 1 small section with speed limit 70kmph you could meet police get ticket for overspeeding.
> 
> Enjoy :cheers:


Yeaahhh, sure... Try this in The Netherlands, where you can obtain a ticket for speeding 3-4 km/h over speed limit. Normally that's way I am driving 122 km/h in NL  and most of drivers. Speed cameras from overpasses or under the bridges are quite common. 
We will see how will be on Polish new roads soon!
Quite surprising but Polish capitol get motorway connection after 79 yrs later than Wroclaw  :lol:


----------



## snowdog

mappero said:


> Yeaahhh, sure... Try this in The Netherlands, where you can obtain a ticket for speeding 3-4 km/h over speed limit. Normally that's way I am driving 122 km/h in NL  and most of drivers. Speed cameras from overpasses or under the bridges are quite common.
> We will see how will be on Polish new roads soon!
> Quite surprising but Polish capitol get motorway connection after 79 yrs later than Wroclaw  :lol:


Actually, in the Netherlands you won't be fined until 128 km/h.
They only fine from 4 km/h to fast afaik.
128 km/h > 4km correction >124 km/h...
Anything under that will not be a fine iirc ?

But in Poland my experience is the Police don't care if you're driving fast on an empty motorway. Unlike here, where the highway robbers jump out of the bushes for small infractions. However, luckily a good sat nav (or mind, for fixed tax collector camera's), good eyes (keeping en eye on unmarked tax collectors) and Flitsnav or Flitsmeister (for the mobile laser or radar armed highway robbers) help A LOT.


----------



## Uppsala

Now when Poland have some very nice motorways like the A2 all the way to Warszawa and the very nice motorway A4, they should do something with A18. That motorway is still horrible in the direction from German border and east. They really need to repair it. So I hope the do it soon now.


----------



## Janek0

It is not a motorway A18, but national road 18. It is signed as A18 only on very short section near A4. And really, there are many more important single carriageway sections with much higher traffic volumes. (A)18 is significant mainly because of the prestige.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Many other DK-roads in Poland were renovated, and so should DK18, the current condition is completely unacceptable, low traffic volumes or not. 

By the way, the S7 around the southern side of Gdańsk opened to traffic!


----------



## Janek0

ChrisZwolle said:


> Many other DK-roads in Poland were renovated, and so should DK18, the current condition is completely unacceptable, low traffic volumes or not.


In that case we should consider converting it into single carriageway until more important projects are done. But I am not sure that it would be safer than the current configuration.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

How about a temporary 2+1 setup on the north carriageway? It could be a solution if it becomes clear renovation won't start for another 5 years or so.


----------



## Switek

^^

It still requires certain sum of money. There's no place for temporary solutions in a situation when the second two lanes are anyway planned...


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

ChrisZwolle said:


> Many other DK-roads in Poland were renovated, and so should DK18, the current condition is completely unacceptable, low traffic volumes or not.
> 
> By the way, the S7 around the southern side of Gdańsk opened to traffic!


Awesome! I'm going to be staying near there next week, I was just looking at the maps the other day and it wasn't on there yet. A good month for Poland. :cheers:


----------



## Barciur

So how long should it take now to get from Berlin to Warsaw?


----------



## DammianBB

Barciur said:


> So how long should it take now to get from Berlin to Warsaw?


About 5 hours


----------



## Superkot634

ChrisZwolle said:


> Many other DK-roads in Poland were renovated, and so should DK18, the current condition is completely unacceptable, low traffic volumes or not.


That's right, nevertheless, still a lot of national roads in need of repair. But maybe simply I'm just a pessimist...


----------



## Chris80678

ChrisZwolle said:


> Many other DK-roads in Poland were renovated, and so should DK18, the current condition is completely unacceptable, low traffic volumes or not.
> 
> By the way, the S7 around the southern side of Gdańsk opened to traffic!


Are you sure about this? The S7 Gdańsk southern bypass isn't supposed to be open to traffic until the first week of July. But if it is than well done Poland for getting it opened ahead of schedule :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Very sure


----------



## Chris80678

Wow! The rate of progress in opening new motorways and expressways in Poland is just staggering. Next month we can look forward to the openings of: A1 Świerklany - Polish/Czech border, A1 Kowal - Łódż Północ (Stryków) (maybe? its not definite), A2 Mińsk Maz bypass. Go Poland! :cheers:


----------



## Urbain

ChrisZwolle said:


> Very sure


Nice road but too narrow - It was not possible to build it directly 3 lanes on each directions (to overpass a million inhabitants Three City - Gdansk, Sopot, Gdynia)?

In a few years it will need to be enlarged and, once again, with the problems we all know that occurs in Poland, traffic jams long time again :bash:...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Four lanes can handle 70.000 - 80.000 vehicles per day, depending on the truck share. I don't think it will initially carry more than 20.000 vehicles per day, and future growth may be significant, but I think that largely depends on the rate of suburbanization of the area. Considering most of the Wisła River delta may not be suitable for large-scale housing developments, it's doubtful whether S7 will reach its capacity in the forseeable future (next 30 years). 

I myself was more surprised with the S6/S7 interchange. It's a trumpet with the loop in the wrong direction (the heaviest flow). It would have made more sense to mirror the trumpet, so that Gdynia > Elbląg and vice versa traffic can maintain the highest speed.


----------



## mcarling

Switek said:


> It still requires certain sum of money. There's no place for temporary solutions in a situation when the second two lanes are anyway planned...


I agree. It would be quite expensive for a temporary solution that arguably is not even as good as the current state of affairs.



Barciur said:


> So how long should it take now to get from Berlin to Warsaw?





DammianBB said:


> About 5 hours


5 hours would be a relaxed pace. 4 hours might be possible if you're aggressive.


----------



## Urbain

ChrisZwolle said:


> Four lanes can handle 70.000 - 80.000 vehicles per day, depending on the truck share. I don't think it will initially carry more than 20.000 vehicles per day, and future growth may be significant, but I think that largely depends on the rate of suburbanization of the area. Considering most of the Wisła River delta may not be suitable for large-scale housing developments, it's doubtful whether S7 will reach its capacity in the forseeable future (next 30 years).
> 
> I myself was more surprised with the S6/S7 interchange. It's a trumpet with the loop in the wrong direction (the heaviest flow). It would have made more sense to mirror the trumpet, so that Gdynia > Elbląg and vice versa traffic can maintain the highest speed.


False.

A four lane motorway, has a maximum capacity of 40-50k vehicules per day (If traffic rides on both lanes). Anyway, they are a lot of trucks on this route (Three City-Warsaw-Krakow), so the capacity is even lower... Not talking about rush hour in Three City, which left hundreds of thousands vehicles at the same moment, and you get a real road block, surely also on the new road hno:.

Have you ever been once in Gdansk? 

The existing route that lead to the S6 is already fully blocked in rush hours.
The new S7 will work as an alternative route, so in a few years it will be completely saturated and they will need to enlarge it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A motorway has a much higher capacity than 40.000 or 50.000 vehicles per day. Sure, it's not empty then, but there are many 2x2 motorways that carry even more than 80.000 vehicles per day. We even have some 2x2 motorways that carry over 100.000 vehicles per day in the Netherlands.


----------



## jeremiash

ChrisZwolle said:


> I myself was more surprised with the S6/S7 interchange. It's a trumpet with the loop in the wrong direction (the heaviest flow). It would have made more sense to mirror the trumpet, so that Gdynia > Elbląg and vice versa traffic can maintain the highest speed.


You remember the OMT beltway from a couple pages back? It's supposed to be connected to S7 at that interchange so it's going to have to be rebuilt anyway. This will also greatly influence the distribution of traffic in that whole area, so there's really no point in worrying about that trumpet right now. Here's a picture of that interchange, as it is planned:









Personally , I believe that OMT has a chance of being built within the next 10 years.


----------



## Urbain

mcarling said:


> I agree. It would be quite expensive for a temporary solution that arguably is not even as good as the current state of affairs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5 hours would be a relaxed pace. 4 hours might be possible if you're aggressive.


Who's the idiot that put a speed limit of 70 km/h on almost half the way from Gr. Maz. to Lodz (The national road 2 with it 100 km/h speed limit is way more dangerous)? This road is easily passable at 120 km/h even if they are small bumps. Is it to allow the police from getting a "turnpike" before the tolls are in place?


----------



## Urbain

ChrisZwolle said:


> A motorway has a much higher capacity than 40.000 or 50.000 vehicles per day. Sure, it's not empty then, but there are many 2x2 motorways that carry even more than 80.000 vehicles per day. We even have some 2x2 motorways that carry over 100.000 vehicles per day in the Netherlands.


And you know the effect....bumper against bumper :lol:.


----------



## jeremiash

Urbain said:


> False.
> 
> A four lane motorway, has a maximum capacity of 40-50k vehicules per day (If traffic rides on both lanes). (...) Not talking about rush hour in Three City, which left hundreds of thousands vehicles at the same moment, and you get a real road block, surely also on the new road hno:.
> 
> Have you ever been once in Gdansk?
> 
> The existing route that lead to the S6 is already fully blocked in rush hours.
> The new S7 will work as an alternative route, so in a few years it will be completely saturated and they will need to enlarge it.


Surely, you must have never been to Tricity, or else you would know that the current S6 with over 50k vehicles per day on almost all sections, is only "blocked" when an accident happens. 
I find that road rather relaxing to drive on, even in dense traffic in the middle of the day, most of the time the right lane will be going at around 90-100 km/hr with the left lane at about 120 km/hr, which is a very good result for rush hour traffic if you ask me.
One thing that would be more helpful in improving traffic flow there (on the S6), is not a third lane but a full emergency lane. Trust me, we really don't have to worry about a third lane on S7 for atleast 20 years.


----------



## Koesj

Urbain said:


> False.
> 
> A four lane motorway, has a maximum capacity of 40-50k vehicules per day (If traffic rides on both lanes).


Maybe you mean per direction? 

_edit:_ no wait you didn't, you were just spouting nonsense

The theoretical maximum lane-hour capacity is somewhere just over 2000 (which will probably be more in real-life conditions), times four lanes and let's say 12 hrs per day for an average of half of road capacity used per 24 hrs. That's 96.000 vehicles which will mean there's going to be heavy congestion during peak hours but still way more than 40-50k and free-flow for 20 hours per day (barring accidents or bad weather).


----------



## Urbain

Koesj said:


> Maybe you mean per direction?
> 
> _edit:_ no wait you didn't, you were just spouting nonsense
> 
> The theoretical maximum lane-hour capacity is somewhere just over 2000 (which will probably be more in real-life conditions), times four lanes and let's say 12 hrs per day for an average of half of road capacity used per 24 hrs. That's 96.000 vehicles which will mean there's going to be heavy congestion during peak hours but still way more than 40-50k and free-flow for 20 hours per day (barring accidents or bad weather).


It is purely theoretical, only if traffic was the same all the day long. But it never happens. Therefore, it is commonly accepted that a four lane motorway has a maximum daily capacity of about 40 to 60k vehicles on plain and rolling terrain, depending on the level of comfort and the urbanization of the area.

Three City is a very popular tourist destination (from all over Poland and abroad). In summer, the City can double its capacity. 

When you look at the traffic in Three City, you can see that they are only two roads to transit the cities, the first one is a city street which is almost crowded, the second one, 10km in the north of Gdansk is the four-lanes S6 Three City bypass. The roads that leads to the bypass (and not the bypass itself) are always crowded in rush hour. The new S7 is an alternative route that lead to the S6 oke:.


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## treichard

With S7 now open near Gdansk, what are the current routings of E75, E77, and E28?


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## snowdog

Urbain said:


> And you know the effect....bumper against bumper :lol:.


Nothing wrong with that imho . Means a road is fully used rather than jammed up because people try to keep silly big distances.


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## Urbain

snowdog said:


> Nothing wrong with that imho . Means a road is fully used rather than jammed up because people try to keep silly big distances.


And the 2 seconds rule in that ? If someone brakes hardly it might result in a big smash :eek2:. I personally have seen one were 80 cars were involved and it was terrible.


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## ChrisZwolle

What's the latest on the A1 Mszana Bridge in southern Poland? I've read something about a reinforcement and a opening in August 2013, but here it's listed as late July 2012.


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## snowdog

Urbain said:


> And the 2 seconds rule in that ? If someone brakes hardly it might result in a big smash :eek2:. I personally have seen one were 80 cars were involved and it was terrible.


To hell with the 2 second rule (it's not a rule but a recommendation), the average in Holland is 1.5 second. That is an AVERAGE, this means that 1 second is easily accepted.

Police fine for staying less than half a second behind someone for at least 30 seconds...

If everyone would try to keep 2 second distance we'd have MASSIVE traffic jams in every place a road joins the motorway.


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## Koesj

Urbain said:


> It is purely theoretical, only if traffic was the same all the day long. But it never happens. Therefore, it is commonly accepted that a four lane motorway has a maximum daily capacity of about 40 to 60k vehicles on plain and rolling terrain, depending on the level of comfort and the urbanization of the area.



Ruhrgebiet:
A40 near Bochum: 109.573 vpd
A43 near Herne: 98.904 vpd
A565 near Bonn-Beuel: 96.784 vpd

Randstad:
A1 near Blaricum: 109.280 vpd
A2 near Culemborg: 113.960 vpd
A4 near Hoogmade: 105.179 vpd
A12 near Bleiswijk: 100.055 vpd

All 2005 workday figures :nuts:

Yes, these are roads where traffic *will* be the same for long parts of the day: too busy. And no, it'll not be comfortable.

But your claim that its 'purely theoretical'? Nonsense.


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## tomibaranek

South bypass of Gdańsk 

http://trojmiasto.tv/Przejazd-poludniowa-obwodnica-Gdanska-3264.html


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## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> What's the latest on the A1 Mszana Bridge in southern Poland? I've read something about a reinforcement and a opening in August 2013, but here it's listed as late July 2012.


The local building inspector gave Polish Road Authority time until August 2013 to correct the bridge. They will have to strengthen bottom of the bridge concrete box as well as add some external tension cables outside the concrete superstructure. He blamed mistakes during construction but in such a way which suggest that project wasn't good in the first place because it gave too small tolerances.
The problem is that Alpina thinks that Road Authority should pay for the new project and extra works while Road Authority thinks Alpina should pay.
In short. It is a fu**ing mess. 
This whole strange bridge was a mistake from the beginning. They should use some standard "off the shelf" bridge design and motorway to my hometown would be finished long ago. I'm seriously pissed off with this project blunder.


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## Vanaheim

tomibaranek said:


> South bypass of Gdańsk
> 
> http://trojmiasto.tv/Przejazd-poludniowa-obwodnica-Gdanska-3264.html


Better version  :


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## Surel

geogregor said:


> The local building inspector gave Polish Road Authority time until August 2013 to correct the bridge. They will have to strengthen bottom of the bridge concrete box as well as add some external tension cables outside the concrete superstructure. He blamed mistakes during construction but in such a way which suggest that project wasn't good in the first place because it gave too small tolerances.
> The problem is that Alpina thinks that Road Authority should pay for the new project and extra works while Road Authority thinks Alpina should pay.
> In short. It is a fu**ing mess.
> This whole strange bridge was a mistake from the beginning. They should use some standard "off the shelf" bridge design and motorway to my hometown would be finished long ago. I'm seriously pissed off with this project blunder.


Isn't there any alternative discussed doing the job temporarily? Because of this single bridge there are 25 kms of finished fine motorway waiting to be used.


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## Chris80678

So it is likely that the viaduct at Mszana will be repaired and strengthened and safe to use so that the entire A1 between Świerklany and the 
Polish/Czech border can be opened to traffic in late July 2012?


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## toonczyk

Chris80678 said:


> So it is likely that the viaduct at Mszana will be repaired and strengthened and safe to use so that the entire A1 between Świerklany and the
> Polish/Czech border can be opened to traffic in late July 2012?


Very unlikely, I'd say even impossible. If Alpine starts working right away, I believe it's possible to have the bridge open before this year ends. But the works won't commence unless GDDKiA and Alpine start working together, and right now they do all the talking through media and their lawyers, there doesn't seem to be any constructive dialogue going on.


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## geogregor

toonczyk said:


> Very unlikely, I'd say even impossible. If Alpine starts working right away, I believe it's possible to have the bridge open before this year ends. But the works won't commence unless GDDKiA and Alpine start working together, and right now they do all the talking through media and their lawyers, there doesn't seem to be any constructive dialogue going on.


Exactly, it is absolutely impossible to finish it in less than few months. In the best conditions. First they have to work out the precise correction design and then implement it.
And then there are all the lawyers.....hno:
Darkness, I see darkness....:nuts:


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## Urbain

Hoff said:


> Budimex is now owned by Spanish Ferrovial, and Polimex-Mostostal has majority of its shares in free float on Warsaw Stock Exchange. Not much socialist


But, they are still strongly associated with the Socialist Era in Poland. Mostostal was even a "Stalinist" company (founded in 1945). Budimex, especially on the 70's and today's major infrastructures built that time. Even though, they are proud of their history and experience!


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## ChrisZwolle

I've read the construction permit (ZnRID) was issued by Lower Silesia for the construction of S5 to Wroclaw. Does this mean construction will actually begin soon, or do we have to wait for another year before funding becomes available?

The blue section:


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## ChrisZwolle

Urbain said:


> On this road (with trucks), it wouldn't even cross 50k.


I know plenty 2x2 motorways with 70.000 vehicles per day that do not suffer from structural congestion. So please stop spreading this nonsense that four-lane motorways cannot handle more than 50.000 vehicles per day, as there are numerous examples of (much) higher volumes on such roads.


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## and802

^^^ trolling. let us do not refer to his/her posts. waste of time.


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## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> I've read the construction permit (ZnRID) was issued by Lower Silesia for the construction of S5 to Wroclaw. Does this mean construction will actually begin soon, or do we have to wait for another year before funding becomes available?


It is scheduled for "after 2013", and we still need a tender, which is another year or so.


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## void0

What is the price of 1km new motorway construction in Poland?


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## toonczyk

^^ Obviously it highly depends on terrain etc. On average it's about 35 mln PLN per 1km (that includes both motorways and 2x2 expressways). Here's more stats:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=57784799&postcount=7
Last column is price/km in PLN.


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## kmieciu

*S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów, stretch Rusinów - Międzyrzecz*



> 2.
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> 41.
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> 43.Gorzów Wlkp. ^ ^ ^
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> 
> 50.Gorzów Wlkp. ^ ^ ^
> 
> 
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> 112.Jak widać potrzeba jeszcze wiele miesięcy pracy, żeby zbudować ten obiekt.
> 
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> 137.
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> 152.
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> 211.
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> 19.
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> 58.
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> 117.Ustrojstwo w całej okazałości.
> 
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> 
> 241.








Track in green and blue on map.


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## Urbain

and802 said:


> ^^^ trolling. let us do not refer to his/her posts. waste of time.


You say trolling, because I'm saying a truth that bother some.
Please, stop writing that way.


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## Urbain

ChrisZwolle said:


> I know plenty 2x2 motorways with 70.000 vehicles per day that do not suffer from structural congestion. So please stop spreading this nonsense that four-lane motorways cannot handle more than 50.000 vehicles per day, as there are numerous examples of (much) higher volumes on such roads.


Stop comparing those nearly overcrowded motorways - many are now enlarged to 3x3 in NL, F, D and other countries. If you think a highway MUST be saturated for many hours a day, you're in a good way.
No foresight, nor long term view.


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## Deo

>


I like this color! ;D


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## Sasza

Urbain said:


> Stop comparing those nearly overcrowded motorways - many are now enlarged to 3x3 in NL, F, D and other countries. If you think a highway MUST be saturated for many hours a day, you're in a good way.
> No foresight, nor long term view.


Oh man, just shut up. 20 posts and all in "zabiorom" and "niedasie" style...
It's not onet's forum it's skyscrapercity. You need to have more knowledge.


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## Agnette




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## Urbain

Sasza said:


> Oh man, just shut up. 20 posts and all in "zabiorom" and "niedasie" style...
> It's not onet's forum it's skyscrapercity. You need to have more knowledge.


Only a fool can write that way hno:.


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## Sasza

Agnette said:


>


True. Sorry, I just get emotional when I see examples of... something like that.


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## Koesj

Sasza said:


> True. Sorry, I just get emotional when I see examples of... something like that.


Here let me help you out: Add Urbain to your ignore list.


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## Chris80678

Is the S7 expressway between Pasłęk and Miłomyn still on track to open to traffic on 15th July 2012? zumi.pl still out of date with recently opened expressways and motorways such as: S7 Gdańsk south bypass, A2 Stryków 
to Konotopa, A1 Zabrze (Wieszowa) to Pyrzowice hno:


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## Kaczorm

S8



Kaczorm said:


> Jakość telefoniczna, na razie lepszej nie będzie. Zdjęcia spod Rzgowa.


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## kostakis548

Very nice motor ways!!! CBR 1000 RR forever...


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## Urbanista1

i'm very impressed by the progress Poland has made in building a highway infrastructure. Drove on a number of roads last year and was very impressed by quality of construction, design and maintenance, best of all Polish officials are building roadway infrastructure within their financial means, not bankrupting the country just to impress the Germans or someone else. I saw some potholes that were patched and maybe a few that needed patching, but I could show you many roads in Canada that are badly potholed. We have no one to impress or compete with but ourselves, we know what needs doing and we know what our priorities are and what we can afford. If people steal, well that's an old tradition rooted in Communist era frustration, poverty and injustice that is dying out. My cousins stole bricks for their house because they coudln't buy any to finish their house for years. I'm looking forward to seeing the entire A4 and A1 Gdansk to Lodz completed this year. It would be resally good if the link to Czech on the A1 is done soon too, I drive into Czech from Krakow a fair bit.


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## geogregor

Urbanista1 said:


> i'm very impressed by the progress Poland has made in building a highway infrastructure. Drove on a number of roads last year and was very impressed by quality of construction, design and maintenance, best of all Polish officials are building roadway infrastructure within their financial means, not bankrupting the country just to impress the Germans or someone else. I saw some potholes that were patched and maybe a few that needed patching, but I could show you many roads in Canada that are badly potholed. We have no one to impress or compete with but ourselves, we know what needs doing and we know what our priorities are and what we can afford. If people steal, well that's an old tradition rooted in Communist era frustration, poverty and injustice that is dying out. My cousins stole bricks for their house because they coudln't buy any to finish their house for years. I'm looking forward to seeing the entire A4 and A1 Gdansk to Lodz completed this year. It would be resally good if the link to Czech on the A1 is done soon too, I drive into Czech from Krakow a fair bit.


Neither A1 nor A4 will be finished this year, there is no slightest chance. I do agree, to a large degree, with your statement that situation is much better than during the depth of communism, but one shouldn't overlook obvious incompetence and bad management on many road projects. It often leads to massive delays. A4 east of Krakow should be mostly finished by now, similarly A1 north of Lodz. How they look you can check on the relevant Polish threads. And don't let me even start to moan about the fricking bridge in Mszana. How about S69 to Zywiec? Also delayed. 
There is a lot we can improve as we still need plenty of new modern roads to catch up with European average density.


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## Urbanista1

thanks for the clarification, but I still think POland having built over 2,000 km of road in less than 10 years is amazing, if not monumental...and take into account Poland's relative wealth or the lack thereof even today and the fact that maybe up to 1 million skilled Poles left for the UK, Germany and France after entry into EU post 2004. The Poles that remained have muddled through quite well and with enough prodding and the return of maybe a few thousand skilled Poles to maintain, maybe things will get even better. I just get ticked when Poles who no longer live in the country or contribute to its development, financially or otherwise come onto these sites and trash the achievements of those who have remained.


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## ChrisZwolle

Delays are very common in any major project in Europe, nothing to worry about. Even with delays, Polish motorway construction is MUCH faster than for example in Germany.


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## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Delays are very common in any major project in Europe, nothing to worry about. Even with delays, Polish motorway construction is MUCH faster than for example in Germany.


Germany now, but when Germany was building bulk of their network in sixties and seventies they were opening more motorways a year than we do now. I've seen table somewhere, maybe even posted by you, but can't find it now.
To be fair, back then amount of ridiculous rules from Brussels was much smaller.

Don't take me wrong, I'm happy because all the progress we did, but many things could be done better.


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## Superkot634

Urbanista1 said:


> i'm very impressed by the progress Poland has made in building a highway infrastructure. Drove on a number of roads last year and was very impressed by quality of construction, design and maintenance, best of all Polish officials are building roadway infrastructure within their financial means, not bankrupting the country just to impress the Germans or someone else. I saw some potholes that were patched and maybe a few that needed patching, but I could show you many roads in Canada that are badly potholed. We have no one to impress or compete with but ourselves, we know what needs doing and we know what our priorities are and what we can afford. If people steal, well that's an old tradition rooted in Communist era frustration, poverty and injustice that is dying out. My cousins stole bricks for their house because they coudln't buy any to finish their house for years. I'm looking forward to seeing the entire A4 and A1 Gdansk to Lodz completed this year. It would be resally good if the link to Czech on the A1 is done soon too, I drive into Czech from Krakow a fair bit.


Recondition national roads and will be well.


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## and802

^^^ i dont mind that some of the things could be done better... As Chris wrote we are doing quite well. What I do mind we have not got any clarified national programme for 2015-2020. Could be something, or could be nothing at all. I do no want to celebrate opening of altogether 100 km of new motorways in years 2015-2020.


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## Beck's

and802 said:


> ^^^ i dont mind that some of the things could be done better... As Chris wrote we are doing quite well. What I do mind we have not got any clarified national programme for 2015-2020. Could be something, or could be nothing at all. I do no want to celebrate opening of altogether 100 km of new motorways in years 2015-2020.


We are supposed to construct aproximately 1000 km. motorways/expresways in 2014-2020, so it is around 150 km. per year


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## and802

Beck's said:


> We are supposed to construct aproximately 1000 km. motorways/expresways in 2014-2020, so it is around 150 km. per year


Beck's, if this is truth I will join your fan-club...

but please be more specifis, which routes were on you mind ?


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## Beck's

and802 said:


> Beck's, if this is truth I will join your fan-club...
> 
> but please be more specifis, which routes were on you mind ?


I am on mind all S7 from Cracow to Gdańsk(apart from the bypass of Kielce-underconstructed now and south bypass of Gdańsk-exist now), S8 from Warsaw to Białystok, S17 from Warsaw to Lublin, S5 from Wrocław to Poznań and A1 from Pyrzowice to Piotrków. You can also find some more information here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=92335016&postcount=184


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## Kaczorm

A1 near Łódź:


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## Chris80678

Where exactly near Łódż is this stretch of the A1? Is it part of the stretch between Kowal and Stryków which is supposed to open in July?


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## toonczyk

Chris80678 said:


> Where exactly near Łódż is this stretch of the A1?


Here, looking north:
http://goo.gl/maps/9e9K


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## ChrisZwolle

I was wondering why the city of Łódź was left out in highway construction for a long time. While most larger Polish cities either had motorways or somewhat developed arterial road networks, Łódź had almost nothing for a long time, it has only one or two grade-separated interchanges. With Łódź being Poland's second largest city for some time, this surprised me. 

Łódź was also not on a major road junction, DK1/DK2 was further north and DK1/DK8 further south, leaving Łódź with some less important national roads. Even A2 nowadays hardly serves Łódź itself. 

So what's up with Łódź?


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## Chris80678

Oh I was hoping it would be part of the A1 Kowal to Stryków stretch as it is due to open to traffic this year


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## Kaczorm

The smaller road that is perpendicular to the A1 is a road connecting Stryków and Głowno if it tells you anything  I should rather say that the photo was taken near Stryków but let it be as it is


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## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> So what's up with Łódź?


Łódź has most of it's outer ring either ready or U/C - A2 on the north, A1 on the east, S8 on the south, part of S14 on the west. I'd say GDDKiA invested more into roads around Łódź than any other city (well, unless you count the whole Upper Silesian Industrial Region). The problem is that those roads (will) mostly benefit through traffic, not people living in the urban area of Łódź. 



Chris80678 said:


> Oh I was hoping it would be part of the A1 Kowal to Stryków stretch as it is due to open to traffic this year


But... it is. This is northern part of ex-Stryków interchange (now called Łódź Północ). Everything north of the DK14 (visible on the photo) is part of the Stryków-Piątek contract, which is a section of Kowal-Stryków stretch. The whole stretch to Kowal won't be ready anytime soon though, because the middle section is delayed due to bankruptcy of the main contractor.


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## ChrisZwolle

toonczyk said:


> Łódź has most of it's outer ring either ready or U/C - A2 on the north, A1 on the east, S8 on the south, part of S14 on the west. I'd say GDDKiA invested more into roads around Łódź than any other city (well, unless you count the whole Upper Silesian Industrial Region). The problem is that those roads (will) mostly benefit through traffic, not people living in the urban area of Łódź.


Yes, now. But why not in the past? I think Łódź was the most left-out city of Poland. Warszawa at least had many interchanges, Łódź had only two of them. Was there a special reason or is Łódź just a weirdly located city? Romania has such a "second city" as well (Iași).


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## toonczyk

^^ For the last 50 years lack of large road investments funded by the government was a rule, rather than an exception. I really don't think Łódź was left-out or ignored in investment plans. I don't know, maybe someone from Łódź can give their perspective.


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## Kaczorm

These pics are a bit worse in terms of quality and angle of the picture but still you can see something.

South of Kutno, also A1:



Kaczorm said:


> Dzięki  Więcej mam spod Kutna, znaczy trzy fotki jeszcze, bo akurat moja traska nie wiodła nad samym śladem autostrady, tylko miałem odcinek od Głowna do Kutna, także jeszcze trzy zdjęcia takie, prawda, z boku
> 
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> Południowe okolice Kutna.


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## E2rdEm

ChrisZwolle said:


> Warszawa at least had many interchanges, Łódź had only two of them.


Do not compare to Warszawa - the capital was always a "shopping window" of every communist country. Compare to Kraków or Wrocław. How many interchanges pre-dating 1990 you can count in those cities?

And it's not wise to go into that discussion, because in polish forums it always becomes so heated, that it ends up with several brigs and bans... (city vs city)


----------



## Beck's

Fritz18 said:


> Well, you have to consider, that not Poland is financing the constructions of highways in Poland out of its own tax-payer budget, but the EU provides the funding.


The same was in Spain and Portugal. Theese countries had highways funded by the European Union as well.


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## ChrisZwolle

When can we expect some more definitive data about the upcoming highway funding period?


----------



## jeremiash

My guess would be somewhere in winter, assuming we will know how much road money there will be in the 2014-2020 cohesion fund for Poland by then.


----------



## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> When can we expect some more definitive data about the upcoming highway funding period?


Our minister of transport said the plan for the next perspective should be announced in the coming weeks, I guess probably after Euro 2012 ends and emotions cool down.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Drove on the S7 up here in Gdansk a few times already, its a nice road! Very proud of my country!


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## marcin_ant

Fritz18 said:


> Well, you have to consider, that not Poland is financing the constructions of highways in Poland out of its own tax-payer budget, but the EU provides the funding. So EU contributers like Germany or Norway finance the construction of the Polish highway and road system. So for instance the A2 from the German border to Nowy Tomyśl which cost 6 billion Zloty was financied by 62,5 % from the EIB (European Investment Bank = EU), 25,5 by private banks and 12 % by shareholders of the AWSA (autostrada wielkopolska company). For the construction of the A2 the branch AWSA II was founded, which has - besides others - also the German construction company Strabag and the KWM Investment Bank as owners. And exactly the German Strabag AG was the General builder of the highway, thats why the A2 looks like all the other highways the Strabag built in Germany in the last years.


First of all EU funding is not 100%, as you have mentioned. About 30% has to be financed directly from Polish taxes.

And it's deeply unfair what you suggest that these remaining 70% of funding is from Germany etc.

It's true that Poland benefits from EU funding and we get more than we pay. But it's not true that these EU funds are just a kind of gift.

From 2004 to 2011 Poland obtained about 50 mld Euro.
Quite a lot. But at the same time Polish contribution to EU was about 20 mld Euro.

So, 40% of these EU funds were actually collected from Polish tax-payers.

Theoretically A2 = 30% of the Polish tax + 28% of Polish participation in EU funds + 42% of the actual gift from other EU countries.

And let's be honest. These 42% will go back to Germany immediately as Strabag is German company.


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## mcarling

marcin_ant said:


> And let's be honest. These 42% will go back to Germany immediately as Strabag is German company.


Not quite. Most of that money is spent by Strabag in Poland on construction expenses, including paying subcontractors and buying materials. Only the profits (perhaps about 10% of the 42% or about 4% of the total) plus maybe payments for some equipment manufactured in Germany would go back to Germany immediately.


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## LMB

Fritz18 said:


> Well, you have to consider, that not Poland is financing the constructions of highways in Poland out of its own tax-payer budget, but the EU provides the funding. So EU contributers like Germany or Norway


You mean Denmark and Netherlands? Germans love to say that they contribute most of the EU budget, but it's simply a manipulation. Most - per capita - is submitted by those countries above.



Fritz18 said:


> For the construction of the A2 the branch AWSA II was founded, which has - besides others - also the German construction company Strabag and the KWM Investment Bank as owners. And exactly the German Strabag AG was the General builder of the highway, thats why the A2 looks like all the other highways the Strabag built in Germany in the last years.


This is not even arrogance, this is typical German self-indulgent crap. Why do so many Germans still think that Germany matters so much on the international scene?


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## marcin_ant

mcarling said:


> Not quite. Most of that money is spent by Strabag in Poland on construction expenses, including paying subcontractors and buying materials. Only the profits (perhaps about 10% of the 42% or about 4% of the total) plus maybe payments for some equipment manufactured in Germany would go back to Germany immediately.


And should I believe that Strabag managers, employees are non profit? Do they work for free? Doesn't their salaries go back to Germany?

This 4% is only EBIT. To be honest you should say 5,6% (Strabag EBIDTA for 2011) as they pay taxes in Germany.

But much, much more money flows directly back to EU. I'm pretty sure that while they have 5.6 % EBIDTA for entire company their profit on transportation investments in Poland is much, much higher.


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## geogregor

marcin_ant said:


> And should I believe that Strabag managers, employees are non profit? Do they work for free? Doesn't their salaries go back to Germany?


Most of the managers end employees in Polish arm of Strabag are probably Polish, so their salaries stay in Poland


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## geogregor

LMB said:


> This is not even arrogance, this is typical German self-indulgent crap. Why do so many Germans still think that Germany matters so much on the international scene?


Maybe because they do?? 
At the moment it looks like all the Euro zone is begging Germans to splash some cash. :lol:


----------



## mcarling

geogregor said:


> Most of the managers end employees in Polish arm of Strabag are probably Polish, so their salaries stay in Poland


Yes, and even the few German employees are mostly living in Poland during the contract and spending a large part of their salaries in Poland and paying Polish rather than German income taxes while working in Poland.


----------



## Vegito

E2rdEm said:


> There is a chance that the A2 will be open on section C, but the interchange with DK50 (used to be called Wiskitki, official exit name Żyrardów) will not be open. Check back before you leave...


I wish to check now considering I will be leaving for Poland this Saturday. I'll drive from the German border (A2) to Radom. My original idea was to exit the A2 at the interchange with the DK50 if it's open. Does anyone know if this interchange is open already and if not, what route do you suggest I take?
Simply take one earlier exit near Skierniewice and then head south to the S8 from which I can follow the S8 till Grojec and then take the S7 south? Or anyone has any other ideas?


----------



## Luki_SL

^^The A2 interchanche with DK50 is clossed. I think You should drive this way : http://mapa.targeo.pl/Mapa_Polski,26,20.91242,51.74232?l=53647dbf0be7cc2a


----------



## Vegito

That's exactly what I had in mind  Dziekuje bardzo


----------



## Chris80678

http://mapa.targeo.pl/Mapa_Polski,26...647dbf0be7cc2a 

Interesting that on this website (targeo.pl) they show the A1 between Kowal and Łódż Południe (A2), the S8 Zambrów bypass, the 
S7 Pasłęk - Miłomyn as all being open when they are not yet ready to be opened to traffic and yet www.zumi.pl doesn't even show the recently opened motorways/expressways which targeo.pl does i.e. A2 Łódż Południe - Warszawa, A1 Zabrze Północ - Pyrzowice, S11 Dąbrówka - A2, S5 Gnieżno - A2, S7 Gdańsk southern bypass


----------



## Luki_SL

^^I think the most actual is this website: http://mapa.ump.waw.pl/ump-www/ . Zumi pl hasn`t update for some months, on the other side targeo.pl is to much predictable


----------



## woyteck

mcarling said:


> Yes, and even the few German employees are mostly living in Poland during the contract and spending a large part of their salaries in Poland and paying Polish rather than German income taxes while working in Poland.


As long as the money stays within EU, I'm not bothered. I was bothered when Chinese company tried to build some roads in Poland (to show how great they are) but not only they didn't deliver on time, but they have been so bad that GDDKiA canceled the contract.


----------



## mcarling

woyteck said:


> As long as the money stays within EU, I'm not bothered. I was bothered when Chinese company tried to build some roads in Poland (to show how great they are) but not only they didn't deliver on time, but they have been so bad that GDDKiA canceled the contract.


Even when some of the EU subsidy money makes it to China, the consequence is that the Chinese have more euros and it becomes more attractive and affordable for them to buy EU products (for example, Airbus airliners or Audi cars).


----------



## ufonut

S69 Bielsko-Biala - Zywiec by Marek Kocjan



marek_kocjan said:


> Aktualizacja zdjęć lotniczych - http://www.kocjan.pl/thumbnails-77.html
> 
> Węzeł Mikuszowice:
> 
> 
> Węzeł Buczkowice:
> 
> 
> Estakada ES-09:
> 
> 
> Węzeł Żywiec:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Is it me or is the progress of the construction of S69 rather slow?


----------



## X236K

Could anyone please sum up the current status of construction in Poland? Mileage U/C, this year openings, budget and support it with an up-to-date map? Haven't been following this closely lately.. thanks!


----------



## Janek0

Everything is here: https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/1142261/

Ask if you need any translations.


----------



## michael_siberia

@ Chris
It's VERY slow as for now. They are ca. 6 months late.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Any motorway (A/S) openings planned this weekend?


----------



## Strzala

Mełgiewska street in Lublin (future access for Lublin bypass and airport in Świdnik) and S12/ S17 [E372/E373] under construction from junction Lublin "Witosa" to Piaski (starts at 12:00):






Route map:










http://mapa.targeo.pl/Mapa_Polski,24,22.76326,51.18904?l=8917c6543f88b5a3


Planned opening in November 2012.


----------



## Kaczorm

A1 near Piątek.



Kaczorm said:


> Dzień dobry. Okolice Mąkolic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do następnego.


----------



## Blaskovitz

The best and worst companies


----------



## ChrisZwolle

So basically Strabag, Eurovia and Bilfinger Berger have something to explain. You can't compare a company based on a single project.


----------



## jarekles

Blaskovitz said:


> The best and worst companies
> http://p2.biztok.pl/p2.biztok.pl/9115a8a049ff080e39b4491bbe7c911b.jpg


could you give a source? please


----------



## ChrisZwolle

GDDKiA posted it on their website.

http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/11178/Poprawia-sie-jakosc-na-budowach-Mniej-zlych-wynikow-badan


----------



## jarekles

thanx a lot 
have a nice!


----------



## Luki_SL

A1 motorway Gliwice-State border by Marek Kocjan : http://www.kocjan.pl/thumbnails-81.html



marek_kocjan said:


>


----------



## mr.cool

Is part of the A1 Lodz section going to be open this week? 

Any ideas on when the S2 Warsaw bypass will be complete?


----------



## Chris80678

mr.cool said:


> Is part of the A1 Lodz section going to be open this week?
> 
> Any ideas on when the S2 Warsaw bypass will be complete?


There is nothing on GDDKIA website about part of A1 Łódż section opening this week. If anybody knows any different than please let us know.
S2 Warsaw bypass (Konotopa - Puławska) won't be ready until possibly 
early 2013 (at the very earliest) as for the rest of the S2 Warsaw bypass (Puławska - A2) it won't be even be started until 2014 at the earliest


----------



## PLH

A1 Łódź - Piątek (halfway to Kutno) may open July 15th.


----------



## Chris80678

PLH said:


> A1 Łódź - Piątek (halfway to Kutno) may open July 15th.


Not an especially useful stretch of motorway as it terminates at a minor road but if it opens on July 15th thats great :banana:


----------



## Kaczorm

S8



Kaczorm said:


> ^^^^ Piotrków Trybunalski ^^^^
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do miłego.


----------



## Chris80678

Is there any confirmation yet of the A1 between Piątek and A2 (Łódż Południe) opening to traffic next Sunday (15th July)?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interesting _Nebenstrecke_



Wesoły Romek;93014786 said:


> bardzo fajny pomysł jak i wykonanie szczecińskiej GDDKiA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WIĘCEJ http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/776/trasy-alternatywnego-dojazdu-nad-morze


----------



## Janek0

Nice map of alternative routes - I wonder if German authorities approved that.


----------



## rav00

^^ AFAIR it's been like this for long time now. The quickest way from Wroclaw/Zielona Gora to the Baltic sea is through Germany.
Also, sometimes the best way to get to Zakopane is to takie diversion through Slovakia.


----------



## Sarmizegetusa

The font you are using for auto signs is very very weird. It looks sharp and it does it's job properly though  just saying


----------



## rakcancer

^^ ...and what else would you expect from that "sharp" and doing it's job properly font beside information, entertainment?


----------



## Luki_SL

A1 motorway Pyrzowice-State border(Gorzyczki) by Marek Kocjan :


marek_kocjan said:


> Poniżej kilka nowych zdjęć - Węzeł Sośnica:
> 
> 
> Estakady w Gliwicach:
> 
> 
> Węzeł Maciejów:
> 
> 
> Węzeł Piekary Śląskie:
> 
> 
> Przed Węzłem Pyrzowice - widok na południe:
> 
> 
> Węzeł Pyrzowice:


More: http://www.kocjan.pl/thumbnails-82.html
http://www.kocjan.pl/thumbnails-81.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

How will they change Pyrzowice into a cloverleaf? Construct two parallel bridges?


----------



## Luki_SL

^^I think they wouldn`t construct additional bridges.


----------



## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> How will they change Pyrzowice into a cloverleaf?


Is there an intention to change Pyrzowice into a cloverleaf?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

S11 will connect there from Poznan. So it will be either a cloverleaf or a turbine I suppose.


----------



## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> S11 will connect there from Poznan.


I see. Thanks.



ChrisZwolle said:


> So it will be either a cloverleaf or a turbine I suppose.


I suppose so. I guess it won't be very soon though.


----------



## Janek0

ChrisZwolle said:


> How will they change Pyrzowice into a cloverleaf? Construct two parallel bridges?












from http://www.a1-pyrzowice-sosnica.pl/mapa-5


----------



## Vegito

Vegito said:


> I wish to check now considering I will be leaving for Poland this Saturday. I'll drive from the German border (A2) to Radom. My original idea was to exit the A2 at the interchange with the DK50 if it's open. Does anyone know if this interchange is open already and if not, what route do you suggest I take?
> Simply take one earlier exit near Skierniewice and then head south to the S8 from which I can follow the S8 till Grojec and then take the S7 south? Or anyone has any other ideas?





Luki_SL said:


> ^^The A2 interchanche with DK50 is clossed. I think You should drive this way : http://mapa.targeo.pl/Mapa_Polski,26,20.91242,51.74232?l=53647dbf0be7cc2a


And now I'll drive back from Radom to the Netherlands again... I haven't seen any updates about the DK50 interchange with the A2. I doubt it's open, but I still wish to verify? I am going to drive there wednesday if the interchange A2 - DK50 isn't open yet, I guess I'll have to drive the route which Luki suggested again. That route worked out fine but slows me down quite a lot more than just taking the DK50 as you can guess 
I'll be driving between the S7 and the A2 at around 7-8AM btw..


----------



## mcarling

Vegito said:


> I haven't seen any updates about the DK50 interchange with the A2. I doubt it's open, but I still wish to verify?


Not yet. I don't have any information about when the DK50 bypass (including the interchange with the A2) might open.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's part of this:

http://www.obwodnicazyrardowa.pl/

"Zakończenie robót do 30.04.2012 r."

As you can see they are behind schedule.


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

They were behind of everything, to be honest. But at least it seems they got back on the right track.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Construction speed overall is still quite good, maybe the deadlines are too ambitious / unrealistic. I've read about this bypass of Dorheim in Germany. A 2.2 kilometer 1x2 road. Construction time: 4 years, 9 months.


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Construction speed overall is still quite good, maybe the deadlines are too ambitious / unrealistic. I've read about this bypass of Dorheim in Germany. A 2.2 kilometer 1x2 road. Construction time: 4 years, 9 months.


Sure, but isn't the German timetable absurd?

Contract for Żyrardów bypass was signed in July 2009 with deadline in July 2011. Since then we had several changes in design, chief of construction site and finally, main contractor. And it still "just" a GP 2+1 national road... This is far from what I consider "OK".

Usual time for construction in Poland is 2-2,5 years (unless there is a huge bridge) which I find reasonable. I'm not expecting second A2 Łódź - Warsaw "school", which was insane.


----------



## bleetz

I will be able to test out the A2 (Swiecko - Warsaw) in a couple of weeks. Can't wait!


----------



## Deadeye Reloaded

Shocking news! :uh:

*TomTom Congestion Index*



> *
> Warsaw Most Congested City in Europe*
> 
> *TomTom Launches Quarterly Congestion Index to Identify and Address Congestion Hot Spots across Europe*
> 
> TomTom today launches the first quarterly Congestion Index that accurately identifies and analyses traffic congestion in major cities across Europe. The report, initially covering 31 cities, finds Warsaw the most congested city in Europe. On average, journey times in Warsaw are 42% longer than when traffic in the city is flowing freely and 89% longer during morning rush hour. The TomTom Congestion Index, including individual city reports, can be found at www.tomtom.com/congestionindex.
> 
> The TomTom Congestion Index is the world’s most accurate barometer of congestion in urban areas. The Index is uniquely based on real travel time data captured by vehicles driving the entire road network. TomTom’s traffic database contains over five trillion data measurements and is growing by five billion measurements every day. The overall congestion level for all the cities analysed in Europe is 24% - meaning journey times take 24% longer than when traffic is flowing freely.
> 
> *The top ten most congested cities, ranked by overall congestion level, between January and March 2012 were:*
> 
> *Congestion level:*
> 
> *1. Warsaw, 42%*
> 2. Marseille, 41%
> 3. Rome, 34%
> 4. Brussels, 34%
> 5. Paris, 32%
> 6. Dublin, 30%
> 7. Bradford – Leeds, 28%
> 8. London, 27%
> 9. Stockholm, 27%
> 10. Hamburg, 27%


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Warszawa is also the biggest construction site of Europe currently. It will improve once more works are done and new expressways open. Warszawa is the largest city in the European Union without a basic motorway network.


----------



## toonczyk

Expressways currently under construction will help a bit, but I wouldn't count on any miracles. They don't address the biggest issues (lack of interborough communication east of Wisła, no bypasses of Marki, Raszyn and Łomianki). Also, next year the bridge handling most traffic (Grota-Roweckiego) will be partially closed, so crossing the river will get more difficult.

Then again I'm not complaining, from my perspective traffic in Warszawa is not that bad really, for example from my house even during rush hours it's usually quicker to get to the city center by car than using trams and buses.


----------



## rakcancer

I would add that Warszawa has very undeveloped inter borough connections. There is very few roads between Wola/Jelonki to Ochota, between Bemowo and Bielany/Zoliborz, between rapidly growing Wilanow and Ursynow even old Mokotow and Ochota have very few decent connectors. All that creates lots of bottlenecks which are apparent especially in last 10 years when number of cars thanks to very little import restrictions grew rapidly.


----------



## RipleyLV

Warszawa has no ring road. All the flow moves through the city. Good thing you moved heavy traffic on DK62 and DK50 roads, otherwise these statistics wouldn't surprise.


----------



## Chris80678

It is true that at the moment Warsaw does not have a complete outer road like the majority of other European capitals do. However it is slowly getting there. For example we have the western ring road (S8) and the S2 southern bypass from the A2 to Puławska will be ready and open to traffic in early or mid 2013. Obviously it may be 2020 may the time Warsaw gets it complete outer ring road with the addition of the S17 eastern ring road, the rest of the S2 southern bypass and the E67 upgraded to S8 between the city centre and Modlińska.


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

For those who might be interested: road maps of II Polish Republic in the late 30. of XX century. 1937/1938 map is multilangual.
http://siskom.waw.pl/nauka-historia.htm

As the borders changed, pre-war road condition in Western Belarus & Ukraine as well as eastern Lithuania can also be seen.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interesting. The droga państwowa (state road) was numbered in a radial system, originating in Warszawa or one of its radials. The numbers ran clockwise from 1 to 18 apparently, and there were also fragmented numbers like 18/6 or 9/2 which were less important roads. The road density was also much higher in western Poland than in the east, and the quality in the east was also abominable, with hardly any paved roads in large areas of present-day Belarus & Ukraine. Only southern Poland (current SW Ukraine) had a relatively dense network. Also interesting is how few good quality roads there were back in the late 1930's, basically only the first 50 - 100 km from Warszawa and some other regions like Silesia.


----------



## geogregor

Absolutely fucking unbelievable. How stupid can people be?
Film like that could be used as a real proof of evolution. Looking at it even Christian fundamentalists should agree that people clearly come from monkeys and that some of us are closer to them than others.
:bash::bash::bash:


----------



## snowdog

Wow I hope to never come across such imbeciles.
Should all have their licenses taken away and fined heavily, some of them are easily jail worthy ( like the ones stopping in a bend, retards, what if someone's already accelerating on the sliproad, and then suddenly finds some moron sitting in a blind bend just before joining the motorway?) , and you can see some people having to emergency brake like near 9.06... 

It should not be normal that you can expect people coming in the other direction on a motorway or stopped in places like that.

By the way, do the camera's throw these alarms automatically ? ( the Stop Alarm and the INV DIR alarm? Smart piece of software if they do!)

I agree though, those ''people'' do not belong on the road, but more in the zoo with all the other apes...


----------



## mcarling

geogregor said:


>






snowdog said:



			Should all have their licenses taken away and fined heavily, some of them are easily jail worthy ( like the ones stopping in a bend, retards, what if someone's already accelerating on the sliproad, and then suddenly finds some moron sitting in a blind bend just before joining the motorway?) , and you can see some people having to emergency brake like near 9.06...
		
Click to expand...

I agree that these drivers should lose their licenses -- in the case of lorry drivers, they should lose their commercial licenses forever.

Motorway/expressway slip roads should not have blind spots.




snowdog said:


> By the way, do the camera's throw these alarms automatically ? ( the Stop Alarm and the INV DIR alarm? Smart piece of software if they do!)


Yes.  The software is quite good.



snowdog said:


> I agree though, those ''people'' do not belong on the road, but more in the zoo with all the other apes...


We're all apes.  The subset of apes which includes our nearest relatives are called Great Apes and includes only gorillas, orangutans, humans, chimpanzees, and bonobos." frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>


----------



## LMB

ChrisZwolle said:


> Interesting. The droga państwowa (state road) was numbered in a radial system, originating in Warszawa or one of its radials. The numbers ran clockwise from 1 to 18 apparently, and there were also fragmented numbers like 18/6 or 9/2 which were less important roads. The road density was also much higher in western Poland than in the east,


Doh. _It is a truth universally acknowledged, that_ Poland's infrastructure varies along the west-east line, but few seem to understand the scale, also in Poland. When Poland was put back together in February 1919, the levels of literacy varied from 97% in Wielkopolska (west), Silesia and Warsaw - I guess 3% illiteracy is not bad for 1918 - to a shocking 50, or even 30% literacy rates where you found roads in "abominable state". There has been a struggle to level out those differences (at our great cost), but it hasn't been even 100 years since then.


----------



## ufonut

Polish highways/motorways section is collecting money to buy a remotely controlled drone to film motorway construction all over the country. 

So far they have collected half the money needed to buy a decent drone.

More info here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1526274&highlight=polska&page=6


----------



## Chris80678

So is the A1 between the A2 interchange and Piątek going to open to traffic on Sun 15th July 2012?


----------



## Chris80678

Good news! The S14 between the Dobroń interchange and the 'Port Łódż' interchange has fully open to traffic today hence relieving Pabianice town centre of heavy through traffic thanks to this new full bypass. 

Source:

http://lodz.gazeta.pl/lodz/1,35153,...sobote_wreszcie_pojedziemy_cala.html#opinions


----------



## mr.cool

Hi does anyone know how much is left over from the 2007-2013 EU grant and what roads do you think this money will be spent on? Or should be spent on?

Another question with many road contracts now in Poland suffering huge time delays and companies going bankrupt etc etc (A1,A4,S2) who is to blame for all of this? What do you think could be the solution to be put in place that these problems are less avoided in the future?


----------



## Maadeuurija

question about the video posted before: How they get on the wrong side in the first place? Ain't they exits and entrances singed or what?


----------



## Janek0

We've discussed that in Polish thread and we speculate that they are escaping mistakenly entered toll section.


----------



## geogregor

Janek0 said:


> We've discussed that in Polish thread and we speculate that they are escaping mistakenly entered toll section.


Yes, that's what I heard. But how stupid some have be to risk their life for few zlotych?? hno:hno: 
Honestly, every time I drive in Poland I get nervous. It is not coincidence that we are so high in road deaths statistics.


----------



## mcarling

Janek0 said:


> We've discussed that in Polish thread and we speculate that they are escaping mistakenly entered toll section.


A new argument why vignettes are better than toll booths!


----------



## Luki_SL

^^I would rather say it`s an argument for tougher penalties for drivers. Their behavior can lead to disaster in land traffic.


----------



## mcarling

Tougher penalties do not always reduce crime. The classic example is pickpocketing in London in the 19th century.


----------



## mcarling

Janek0 said:


> Why? They could do the same if they mistakenly enter toll road without vignette.


Does anyone turn around and drive the wrong way after discovering they have entered a toll road without a vignette?


----------



## DITTRICH

If the employer was paying the toll then they wouldn't care.
But maybe the employer wouldn't and it would come out of their wages.
Also, most people, when confronted with an unexpected cost to be met from their own pocket, try to avoid it.
The calculation is something like TOLL zl / PRICE OF BEER zl = Quantity of beer "lost".


----------



## tenkes12345

Is there any plan about ring roads in major cities? (Warsaw, Krakow, Wroclaw...)
I've seen a kind of rings in Wroclaw and Krakow, but they are not still closed... But what it's more curious for me is the lack of ring roads in Warsaw (added to the small metro system and one of the highest rates of traffic density of Europe)


----------



## mcarling

tenkes12345 said:


> Is there any plan about ring roads in major cities? (Warsaw, Krakow, Wroclaw...)
> I've seen a kind of rings in Wroclaw and Krakow, but they are not still closed... But what it's more curious for me is the lack of ring roads in Warsaw (added to the small metro system and one of the highest rates of traffic density of Europe)


Katowice already has a complete ring road. There are plans for a full ring road around Krakow, with the last section (northwest) opening about a year ago and the next section (east) out for tender now. I guess it won't be complete for another decade or so. There were plans for a complete ring road around Warsaw, but the northeast part was cancelled over environmental concerns. Maybe they'll find a new route which doesn't endanger any cockroaches. Work progresses on the rest of the Warsaw ring road. The western half should be complete soon.


----------



## Surel

A foto of the unfinished bridge in Mszana on A1 I went by from Ostrava taking D1, in Bohumin crossing the border and entering polish A1 in Swierklany. Wondered why there could not be made provisionary arrangement going by like this:










The local roads could withsdand the traffic in my oppinion and anyway they need reconstruction already, thus there is not much reason to protect them. There is available slip at Mszana wide enough for both entering and leaving the motorway. Seems to me like legit solution.

Mszana









Zoomed in









Direction CZ










Here the toll at the A4 direction Wroclav. First picture is the start where you get a ticket, second and third the end where one pays.



























The toll was about 16 zloty. They accept euro banknotes also and they pay you back only in zlotys, no euro mint is accepted. The best solution is a credit card which is also accepted.


----------



## mcarling

Surel said:


> A foto of the unfinished bridge in Mszana on A1 I went by from Ostrava taking D1, in Bohumin crossing the border and entering polish A1 in Swierklany. Wondered why there could not be made provisionary arrangement going by like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The local roads could withsdand the traffic in my oppinion and anyway they need reconstruction already, thus there is not much reason to protect them. There is available slip at Mszana wide enough for both entering and leaving the motorway.


In my opinion, it might be optimal to open the route you suggest on a one-way basis. The other direction of traffic could continue to use the current bypass. That would be less disruptive to the works and would ease congestion.


----------



## MajKeR_

geogregor said:


> I know, and it seems like obvious solution.
> But not in Poland, I'm not even sure if they finished primary database of cars and drivers. There were dozen of separate tenders, cancelled orders, delays etc.


Firstly, we need simple registrating system, like in UK, Italy, France and Scandinavia. Without this nothing will work well. Plates should be attached to car for its whole life and scheme of them should be one, not as today.



geogregor said:


> Does anyone knows if the famous CEPiK is already operational?


Not at all. Councils may use it for sharing data about vehicles and drivers, but, as we see, it's not enough to tide that visible mess in our registrating system. Also policemen haven't access to CEPiK and it's too faulty to make some public site with basic data about vehicles.


----------



## mcarling

MajKeR_ said:


> Plates should be attached to car for its whole life and scheme of them should be one, not as today.


There are many reasons why owners should be able to get new plates with a new number for their cars. I'll give just one extreme example to illustrate. Suppose you buy a car at an auction. Then you find that people throw eggs at your car, scratch your paint with their keys, break your lights, etc. Wondering what about your car is attracting this attention, you ask Siri or use Google, and find out that the previous owner was a notorious child rapist. Why should you not be allowed to get new plates?


----------



## MajKeR_

But it's not sufficent reason for maintain actual system, when it's that messy and expensive. Maybe changing plates when the car belonged to offender should be able, but ask Brits or Italians how many such cases existed so far...


----------



## mcarling

MajKeR_ said:


> But it's not sufficent reason for maintain actual system, when it's that messy and expensive. Maybe changing plates when the car belonged to offender should be able, but ask Brits or Italians how many such cases existed so far...


Deciding who is allowed to and who is not would just fuel corruption. It would be better, in my opinion, to simply charge a high free (for example, 1000 euro) to change plates. Everyone can be happy.


----------



## rakcancer

*A1/A2 intersection under construction*

From Polish forum:


noncek said:


> ^^
> Po paru sekundach zabawy w powerpoincie (chwilowo nie mam nic innego pod ręką ) - co, gdzie i gdzie ta północ


----------



## Kuras77

^^
He survived this flight? :nuts:


----------



## bleetz

Hi. I will be going to Lithuania via Poland. Will be coming via A2 via Lodz. What is the best way to go afterwards? Haven't driven there for a while. I normally go all the way to Warsaw, then turn towards Lomza near Ostrow or Zambrow. Is it still the best way?


----------



## DITTRICH

bleetz said:


> Hi. I will be going to Lithuania via Poland. Will be coming via A2 via Lodz. What is the best way to go afterwards? Haven't driven there for a while. I normally go all the way to Warsaw, then turn towards Lomza near Ostrow or Zambrow. Is it still the best way?


Zambrow, Lomza, Augustow.


----------



## mcarling

bleetz said:


> Hi. I will be going to Lithuania via Poland. Will be coming via A2 via Lodz. What is the best way to go afterwards? Haven't driven there for a while. I normally go all the way to Warsaw, then turn towards Lomza near Ostrow or Zambrow. Is it still the best way?


I will have the same choice to make next month. I'll probably go via Białystok in order to see the construction works on the S8. If I would need the fastest/shortest route, I would go via Ostrów Mazowiecka directly to Łomża, skipping Zambrów.


----------



## bleetz

That's the only unknown for me at the moment then: Ostrow or Zambrow? I would like to go via Bialystok to see the S8 construction, but I am taking female passengers and they won't be very interested unfortunately.


----------



## mcarling

bleetz said:


> That's the only unknown for me at the moment then: Ostrow or Zambrow? I would like to go via Bialystok to see the S8 construction, but I am taking female passengers and they won't be very interested unfortunately.


I don't think it's a big difference either way. The female passengers might prefer the better road quality via Zambrów.


----------



## Chris80678

Is there an opening date for the A2 Mińsk Maz bypass yet? It is supposed to open in July


----------



## RipleyLV

Chris80678 said:


> Is there an opening date for the A2 Mińsk Maz bypass yet? It is supposed to open in July


I heard about August.


----------



## Chris80678

RipleyLV said:


> I heard about August.


I guess I shouldn't be surprised as almost all motorway/expressway construction projects in Poland are behind schedule in terms of opening dates :bash:


----------



## Luki_SL

^^Most of the time limits doesn`t seem real at the beginning of road construction.


----------



## rav00

^^ Strange word order it is.


----------



## mcarling

Chris80678 said:


> I guess I shouldn't be surprised as almost all motorway/expressway construction projects in Poland are behind schedule in terms of opening dates


More so than in other countries?


----------



## geogregor

Luki_SL said:


> ^^Most of the time limits doesn`t seem real at the beginning of road construction.


Well, there might be some underestimates but I can't believe that all projects are not real. There is something going wrong with procedures, management and supervision of the contracts.



mcarling said:


> More so than in other countries?


Couple of years ago I was following construction of the Irish motorways, most of them were finished ahead of schedule. Admittedly, some of the schedules were a bit long but not too much.
If we look for example at the A4 construction some of the contracts were awarded about 2 years ago and judging from the progress we will need at least one or two more years to finish them.
3-4 years for construction of motorway in a fairly flat rural landscape? Are you kidding me?


----------



## Strzala

S12/S17 Piaski-Lublin'Witosa' junction:






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTekUo8cHV8


----------



## Maciej1976

S5 Gniezno Południe - Poznań Wschód
LINK


----------



## [email protected]

Can someone please post the latest map of Poland's road investments.
Please


----------



## Agnette

Mapa: http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/


----------



## [email protected]

Agnette said:


> Mapa: http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/


thank you agnette


----------



## ja.centy

Agnette said:


> Mapa: http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/


I just noticed that if you point at a given motorway or express road section, it directs you straight to the corresponding SSC thread.

A very professional map, hats off to the person/-s who developed it.


----------



## Agnette

Agree, excellent map, but there is at least one mistake on A2 motorway.
This section is toll-free:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The drawback of an open system. Open systems should be abolished on greenfield, non-urban toll roads. You end up paying a disproportionate amount of toll on a per-kilometer basis while others don't pay at all. And you end up with incomplete interchanges if you want to deal with the traffic that drives toll free between interchanges. 

The European Union should give full electronic open road tolling the highest priority in its transportation plans. Currently ORT is only possible on roads with very few foreign traffic otherwise the lost income would be too great to economically operate a toll road.


----------



## daverwhite

*Best route to get to Cmielow?*

Hi,

I wonder if anyone can help please. I will be going to visit family with my wife and kids in August. We will be heading for Cmielow, near Ostrowiec Swietokrzyski. The last time we did the trip we went via Poznan and Lodz, encountering loads of delays around Lodz. The time before we went via Wroclaw and Czestochowa, but this took equally as long.

Can anyone advise of the fastest route and the new roads we can take, (as my sat nav won't have updates for them). Thanks in advance


----------



## Janek0

Agnette said:


> Agree, excellent map, but there is at least one mistake on A2 motorway.
> This section is toll-free:


The same on A4 Jaworzno - Trzebinia/Alwernia. Map corresponds to the road signs - all these sections are signed as toll.


----------



## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> The drawback of an open system. Open systems should be abolished on greenfield, non-urban toll roads. You end up paying a disproportionate amount of toll on a per-kilometer basis while others don't pay at all. And you end up with incomplete interchanges if you want to deal with the traffic that drives toll free between interchanges.
> 
> The European Union should give full electronic open road tolling the highest priority in its transportation plans. Currently ORT is only possible on roads with very few foreign traffic otherwise the lost income would be too great to economically operate a toll road.


This seems like it might be a very interesting thought, but unfortunately I don't understand what it means. Would you be so kind as to explain?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

An open system is opposed to a closed system with tickets. With an open system there are toll plazas strategically placed to collect tolls. The toll-per-kilometer tends to be higher than with closed systems. Open systems only work well in cases of bridges or tunnels (i.e. a single point where you have to pay tolls for), not long-distance motorways like A2. You also have to stop more frequently to pay tolls and if traffic is heavy this results in unnecessary delays.

Open Road Tolling, or ORT uses electronic toll collection (ETC). These toll roads do not have physical toll plazas, but only portals over the road that read transponders and license plates of vehicles without transponders. This system is widely used in the United States and is also used in Norway and Portugal. However, due to the cost of getting license plate info from foreign vehicles, most toll road operators usually do not send out small bills to foreign drivers. 

The German, Swiss, Slovak, Czech, Polish and Austrian truck tolls are an example of open road tolling, however they only work with transponders and not "toll-by-plate" systems. Furthermore, there is hardly any interoperability (the ability for one transponder to be used in all countries).

The disadvantage for drivers is that such systems can easily be used as cash cows, by just expanding the toll network at relatively low costs.


----------



## mcarling

I get it now. Thanks for explaining. I would support ORT for the reason that I hate stopping to pay tolls. I don't mind paying, but I hate stopping.

Perhaps this might help with the problem of getting foreign drivers to pay:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area
At least it lowers the transaction costs of paying a foreign toll.


----------



## Signar

New photo from lublin bypass 



Konstruktor said:


> Zadanie(section) 2 Budimex
> 
> 1
> 
> 2
> 
> 3





Konstruktor said:


> 7
> 
> 8
> WD-01
> 
> 9





Konstruktor said:


> 10
> bliżej przejście dla zwierzą dalej WD-03
> 
> 11
> 
> 12





Konstruktor said:


> 13
> węzeł Dąbrowica
> 
> 14
> 
> 15





Konstruktor said:


> 16
> 
> 17
> zadanie 2a
> 
> 18
> 
> 19





baczek_23 said:


> Pojawiły się nowe zdjęcia z obwodnicy
> *section 3*
> tutaj
> 
> *section 4*
> tutaj
> 
> i jeszcze *section 5*
> tutaj


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Some questions! 

* is there any news about the A1 Mszana viaduct? What's the current status?
* when will construction of A1 east of Łódź begin? The famous map shows a completion in mid-2013 which is increasingly unlikely
* when will A2 around Mińsk Mazowiecki open?
* when will S7 Pasłęk - Miłomłyn open?
* when will the second carriageway of S7 Kielce open?
* what is the progress on S8 Piotrków - Mszczonów, are there already interchanges open?


----------



## fanalion

ChrisZwolle said:


> Some questions!
> 
> * when will construction of A1 east of Łódź begin? The famous map shows a completion in mid-2013 which is increasingly unlikely


I don't know the answers (don't follow all those threads profoundly) but to make it clear - you mean probably SOUTH not EAST


----------



## Surel

geogregor said:


> Such statement is typical for countries with little trust in business, officials and every day life. I guess it is part of our culture of cutting corners and cheating. So sometimes we overcompensate.


There is no such thing as a frienldy business... nowhere. The only thing that make business look like friendly is economically efficient and working legal enviroment where legal acts and facts are enforceable. This environment cultivates the people and they in return cultivate the environment. The oppinions about whether certain situation is economically efficient might differ though. **** homini lupus...

I don't really see into GDDKIA, but from what I see I deduce that they do the job quite good and they direct into economically efficient situation. You named space for improvements and I aggree with you, that such problems should not happen and situation can be improved. Becoming soft and friendlier doesn't improve anything though, especially when public and private sector is doing things together. Nowhere in the world. Unless the goal would e.g. be subsidize domestic construction companies, create national champions (just like China does, but also many other countries in many sectors) and make them big enough to compete on the international markets, bringing economic profit home. That is a legit strategy.


----------



## geogregor

Surel said:


> I don't really see into GDDKIA, but from what I see I deduce that they do the job quite good and they direct into economically efficient situation.


Are you serious? You call organization which can't keep up to most of its own deadlines and milestones efficient?? What is the point of announcing dates if no one gives a damn about them?



> Becoming soft and friendlier doesn't improve anything though, especially when public and private sector is doing things together. Nowhere in the world.


Did I ever said soft of friendly? I'm asking for professional project management including budgeting risks and fast responding to changing situation. For now we have mostly bitter arguments and infighting.
I was following for a while building of Irish motorways (where per capita they built impressive network in the last few years, before the banking crisis). There were problems (like sinking stretch of M7) but I didn't hear about kicking out contractors or constant lawsuits. Most of the projects were finished before the scheduled time. But they had financial bonus for that. 



> Unless the goal would e.g. be subsidize domestic construction companies, create national champions (just like China does, but also many other countries in many sectors) and make them big enough to compete on the international markets, bringing economic profit home. That is a legit strategy.


It is not only China. Try to enter the US road building market. Good luck.


----------



## toonczyk

geogregor said:


> Are you serious? You call organization which can't keep up to most of its own deadlines and milestones efficient?? What is the point of announcing dates if no one gives a damn about them?


GDDKiA sets deadlines and the contractor agrees to abide by them. When delays occur, GDDKiA enforces penalties unless there is a good justification. What else would you have them do to motivate contractors to work faster? Should they break the contract on the first sight of problems or delays? Set penalties so severe that no company would risk taking the contract? Or what exactly are you proposing? There are things GDDKiA does wrong, sometimes delays are caused by faulty documentation or things like that, but most of the times they are not the ones to blame.


----------



## Surel

I guess he is proposing that GDDKIA takes on the risks and contractors get the cream on a silver plate.


----------



## mcarling

toonczyk said:


> GDDKiA sets deadlines and the contractor agrees to abide by them. When delays occur, GDDKiA enforces penalties unless there is a good justification. What else would you have them do to motivate contractors to work faster? Should they break the contract on the first sight of problems or delays? Set penalties so severe that no company would risk taking the contract? Or what exactly are you proposing?





geogregor said:


> Most of the projects were finished before the scheduled time. But they had financial bonus for that.


It looks to me like he's proposed a carrot in addition to the stick: financial rewards for early completion. It works well in many places.


----------



## geogregor

Surel said:


> I guess he is proposing that GDDKIA takes on the risks and contractors get the cream on a silver plate.


Could you kindly point where did I write something along these lines?

hno:


----------



## Surel

geogregor said:


> Could you kindly point where did I write something along these lines?
> 
> hno:


I'll post some quotes. But generally you were defending the contractors and accusing GDDKIA of being responsible for their problems. I don´t know how the reality is exactly but my impressions are that GDDKIA is just playing hard business and I like it.




geogregor said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but are we not one of the few countries where major infrastructural contracts are not indexated to raisng costs of oil, steel and other major components? If that's the case such situations will keep happening.





geogregor said:


> So we should be happy than most of the large Polish construction companies are either already bust or facing bankruptcy? Their problems? Hmmm...





geogregor said:


> Did I ever said soft of friendly? I'm asking for professional project management including budgeting risks and fast responding to changing situation. For now we have mostly bitter arguments and infighting.



When the companies have the feeling that GDDKIA cheated (performed poorly, not according to what was stipulated in the contract) on them they should go to the court and they will win if they are right. If on the other side GDDKIA did not, they were not competent to go into such contracts obviously, either legally competent or professionally.

I am 100 % with you that GDDKIA should allways deliver according to the contract. But I don't think that GDDKIA should intentionally bear the risks when the contractors are stupid enough to take the risks on themselves. That just results in the dream situation of any private company: private profits and socialized losses.

I think in the end maybe we have similar oppinions, but don't use the right words and I was perhaps too overshooting in my statement.


BTW, bonus on express delivery should not exceed the standard margin. If the delivery is possible in given time frame, that time frame should be marked as express delivery. Its just playing with words, it works in psychology but it doesn't in business (if you do real business). In one way its called bonus for express delivery and in other its called penalty for late delivery, both should be the same high. The date of delivery being the date of express delivery.


----------



## geogregor

Surel said:


> I'll post some quotes. But generally you were defending the contractors and accusing GDDKIA of being responsible for their problems. I don´t know how the reality is exactly but my impressions are that GDDKIA is just playing hard business and I like it.


Not exactly, I was only saying that blaming contractors for all the problems and delays is simplistic and naive. I had impression that you idealize GDDKiA. From your statements it seems like GDDKiA does splendid job but greedy contractors screw everything up.
If that's what you meant you must be working in this institution. :lol:
Just kidding 



> When the companies have the feeling that GDDKIA cheated (performed poorly, not according to what was stipulated in the contract) on them they should go to the court and they will win if they are right. If on the other side GDDKIA did not, they were not competent to go into such contracts obviously, either legally competent or professionally.


And they do, on A1 (famous Mszana bridge) Alpina is suing GDDKiA. They claim they shouldn't be kicked out of the initial contract. We'll see if they will sue about the current contract. 
The problem is that Polish judicial system is one of the slowest in Europe. Additionally some contractors don't want to risk relationship with the state and try to bite the bullet hoping for the best.



> I am 100 % with you that GDDKIA should allways deliver according to the contract. But I don't think that GDDKIA should intentionally bear the risks when the contractors are stupid enough to take the risks on themselves. That just results in the dream situation of any private company: private profits and socialized losses.


I never said that GDDKiA shuld bear all the risks. However indexation of long contracts to rising costs is used around the world in public and private sector. 



> I think in the end maybe we have similar oppinions, but don't use the right words and I was perhaps too overshooting in my statement.


We both have some valid points 



> BTW, bonus on express delivery should not exceed the standard margin. If the delivery is possible in given time frame, that time frame should be marked as express delivery. Its just playing with words, it works in psychology but it doesn't in business (if you do real business). In one way its called bonus for express delivery and in other its called penalty for late delivery, both should be the same high. The date of delivery being the date of express delivery.


Incentives usually work better than penalties. You say that it applies in psychology but not in business. Well, I disagree again. Companies are run by people not machines and psychology is more important in business than some people might think.
Irish used incentive system in their road projects. They were usually finished well ahead of schedule, on budget and way faster than in Poland. Of course they have milder winters but on the other hand they have quite a lot of rainfall.


----------



## Surel

But thats the point. It depends on how the contractors or GDDKIA are able to forge their contracts. No one will do it for the contractors. No one will hold their hands. Thats what I like about it. If construction companies go bust and others come and finish the same motorway it seems that GDDKIA does better job then they do. If GDDKIA would do such terrible job no one would come and tender for the projects I guess. Those are just simple market relations. I dont think we can argue about that, because there is simply nothing to argue about.

The only thing where we could have different oppinions about is whether GDDKIA really did not abide to the contracts. And I honestly say that I dont know. I don't work there  nor have any inside information on the issue. So, if the GDDKIA is to blame, because it doesnt keep to the contracts, then it indeed sucks big time for the contractors. 

But then again, its just as in any other business and anyone doing business must be ready for this.

Incentives: Again, if such tricks as bonus on express delivery work it just shows that there is inefficiency and the government is paying more then necessary in this particular case.

As I sad the size of bonus and penalty has to be the same if the contract is efficient, therefore there is no difference between those two cases. In one case firm delivers on the date A and gets profit X instead of delivering late on the date A+T and having profit 0 or less. In the other firm delivers "ahead of schedulle" on the same date A and gets bonus of the same size X instead of delivering on the schedulled date A+T and having zero or negative profit.

Obviously if such arrangement works the company is paid more than X in the second case while delivering on the same date A. Thus its just overpaid.

Its completely different situation than examining whether motivation to earn or to lose produces the same result.


----------



## mcarling

Surel said:


> It depends on how the contractors or GDDKIA are able to forge their contracts.


Yes, I agree: much (but not all) of the problem is due to poorly structured contracts, with the wrong incentives (I don't just mean the amounts are wrong). GDDKIA is 100% responsible for the structure of the contracts.



Surel said:


> The only thing where we could have different oppinions about is whether GDDKIA really did not abide to the contracts.


I disagree 100%. Game theory predicts that poorly structured contracts will not be adhered to. I believe (but do not know with certainty) that the GDDKIA contracts we're discussing are so poorly structured.



Surel said:


> Incentives: Again, if such tricks as bonus on express delivery work it just shows that there is inefficiency and the government is paying more then necessary in this particular case.
> 
> As I sad the size of bonus and penalty has to be the same if the contract is efficient, therefore there is no difference between those two cases. In one case firm delivers on the date A and gets profit X instead of delivering late on the date A+T and having profit 0 or less. In the other firm delivers "ahead of schedulle" on the same date A and gets bonus of the same size X instead of delivering on the schedulled date A+T and having zero or negative profit.


Economists used to believe that. Kahneman won the Nobel prize in economics (Tversky was disqualified by being already dead) for proving that argument wrong in this paper:
Prospect Theory: An Analysis of Decision under Risk
by Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky 
Econometrica, 47(2), pp. 263-291, March 1979


----------



## mcarling

*Route Planning and Mapping Hell*

Tomorrow I'll be driving from Warsaw to Vienna. Google thinks the A2 hasn't yet opened between Warsaw and Lodz. Bing thinks the A1 has already opened over the MA532 bridge at Mszana. I'm impatiently waiting for Apple's mapping software based on Openstreetmaps.

My tentative plan is to leave Warsaw about 06:00, take the A2 to Lodz, then the A1 south. I hope to get through Lodz before the morning commute traffic slows down. Then my plan is to take the DK930 south from Swierklany to the DK933 in order to have a look at the infamous bridge. Are both the DK930 and DK933 open to traffic? Will I have any problem getting to the DK78 that way? Would it be better to take DW5021 (Ulica 1 Maja / Ulica Mszanska)? Any other suggestions?


----------



## Surel

mcarling said:


> Yes, I agree: much (but not all) of the problem is due to poorly structured contracts, with the wrong incentives (I don't just mean the amounts are wrong). GDDKIA is 100% responsible for the structure of the contracts.


First what do you mean exactly with wrong contracts? Wrong for whom? GDDKIA or contractors? If they are not working out for the contractors anyway the contractors are 100 % responsible for accepting poor contracts... I have been saying this all around.



mcarling said:


> I disagree 100%. Game theory predicts that poorly structured contracts will not be adhered to. I believe (but do not know with certainty) that the GDDKIA contracts we're discussing are so poorly structured.


Again as I said, if contractors are so stupid that they accept disadvantageous contracts, then its no wonder that GDDKIA takes advantage of them.



mcarling said:


> Economists used to believe that. Kahneman won the Nobel prize in economics (Tversky was disqualified by being already dead) for proving that argument wrong in this paper:
> Prospect Theory: An Analysis of Decision under Risk
> by Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky
> Econometrica, 47(2), pp. 263-291, March 1979



I dont think you read my answer carefull enough. I know that paper and theory. And in this case the logic doesnt apply because the reference point is the same as well as the date. The date that the GDDKIA would set up as the bonus day or the delivery day is the same day. Its not possible to distinguish here the loss and gain as well. Its a gain in both cases. The only certainty equivalent here is not getting anything if not going into business and the only certain date here is the data on which government wants to have the project ready. The date is the same date in both cases.

If there are incentive differences then it only means that the contract is wrongly priced. I.e. government is paying a real bonus for real early delivery.


case 1) contract firm is penalized for delay.

Contract firm gets 100 for delivery on date A, if delivering later than date A there is a penalty of 80. The choice is thus:
Getting 100 on date A or getting 20 later or not going into contract and getting 0.


case 2) contract firm gets bonus for early finish.

Contract firm gets 20 for delivery later than on the date A, if it manages to deliver on A it gets bonus of 80. The choice is thus
Getting 100 on date A or getting 20 later or not going into contract and getting 0.


There is no different reference point in both cases, thus the prospect theory is not applicable here.


----------



## mcarling

Surel said:


> First what do you mean exactly with wrong contracts? Wrong for whom? GDDKIA or contractors? If they are not working out for the contractors anyway the contractors are 100 % responsible for accepting poor contracts... I have been saying this all around.


I mean that the contracts may be structurally broken by providing better payoffs (in the game theoretic sense) for failing to perform than for performing.



Surel said:


> Again as I said, if contractors are so stupid that they accept disadvantageous contracts, then its no wonder that GDDKIA takes advantage of them.


It's not a question of disadvantageous. The contractors have no power to negotiate the structure of the contracts. They can only bid (or not bid) on the parameters. I'm suggesting that the choice of parameters may not be optimal to maximize contract performance.



Surel said:


> I dont think you read my answer carefull enough. I know that paper and theory. And in this case the logic doesnt apply because the reference point is the same as well as the date. The date that the GDDKIA would set up as the bonus day or the delivery day is the same day. Its not possible to distinguish here the loss and gain as well. Its a gain in both cases. The only certainty equivalent here is not getting anything if not going into business and the only certain date here is the data on which government wants to have the project ready. The date is the same date in both cases.
> 
> If there are incentive differences then it only means that the contract is wrongly priced. I.e. government is paying a real bonus for real early delivery.
> 
> 
> case 1) contract firm is penalized for delay.
> 
> Contract firm gets 100 for delivery on date A, if delivering later than date A there is a penalty of 80. The choice is thus:
> Getting 100 on date A or getting 20 later or not going into contract and getting 0.
> 
> 
> case 2) contract firm gets bonus for early finish.
> 
> Contract firm gets 20 for delivery later than on the date A, if it manages to deliver on A it gets bonus of 80. The choice is thus
> Getting 100 on date A or getting 20 later or not going into contract and getting 0.
> 
> 
> There is no different reference point in both cases, thus the prospect theory is not applicable here.


You just gave an argument according to the premises of von Neumann / Morgenstern Expected Utility Theory, which is exactly what Kahneman and Tversky disproved. If you read their paper, it seems you may have missed their point. Actors (in this case the contractors) behave differently when faced with a perceived possible gain than they do when faced with a perceived possible loss, even though the outcomes are the same in each case.


----------



## Surel

mcarling said:


> It's not a question of disadvantageous. The contractors have no power to negotiate the structure of the contracts. They can only bid (or not bid) on the parameters. I'm suggesting that the choice of parameters may not be optimal to maximize contract performance.


Thats certainly possible. However, that was not the argument. The argument was, that contractros blame GDDKIA for entering contracts they can't fullfill. If the contracts are not in their favor they should not enter. The GDDKIA would have to restate the conditions in follow up bidding process.

I am 100 % with you that the parameters could be optimized, as well as bidding process, like e.g. auction is better... but thats different discussion.



mcarling said:


> You just gave an argument according to the premises of von Neumann / Morgenstern Expected Utility Theory, which is exactly what Kahneman and Tversky disproved. If you read their paper, it seems you may have missed their point. Actors (in this case the contractors) behave differently when faced with a perceived possible gain than they do when faced with a perceived possible loss, even though the outcomes are the same in each case.


Well, I advise you to check on the reference point in their theory (Kahneman and Tversky). Their theory is here simply not applicable because there is not gain or loss reference point, there is only gain before the contract is closed under both contracts.

Even after the contracts are closed, any efficient contracts would make crystal clear that there is no difference between them, thus the theory would not apply. The profit on any given date is the same under both contracts and any delay is perceived as loss under both contracts.

Above that, perceived possible loss leads to increased performance and perceived possible gain leads to underperfomance under complete contracts. Such contracts as motorway construction are quite approaching the status of the complete contracts. The situation may be opposite under incomplete contracts.

I recommend this article:
http://aaajournals.org/doi/abs/10.2308/accr-50219

Notice please I am not agruing about the K-H theory, it certainly is empirical fact. It just doesnt apply to this case.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/81504012/Odliczanie-hetman.png

Many deadlines of road projects have expired, but there haven't been many openings since Euro 2012. When can we expect the next stream of motorway and expressway openings?


----------



## michael_siberia

S3 Świebodzin:


michael_siberia said:


> Panorama:
> 
> 
> Duży rozmiar: http://www.fmix.pl/zdjecie/3394584/panorama
> 
> Na panoramie jest WS-17 fotografowany z "Rio de Świebodzineiro".


----------



## geogregor

Surel said:


> First what do you mean exactly with wrong contracts? Wrong for whom? GDDKIA or contractors? If they are not working out for the contractors anyway the contractors are 100 % responsible for accepting poor contracts... I have been saying this all around.
> 
> Again as I said, if contractors are so stupid that they accept disadvantageous contracts, then its no wonder that GDDKIA takes advantage of them.


The whole discussion is becoming very academic. Do you have some economy background?
I don't.
But looking at what is happening in Poland in the last few years it seems that GDDKiA is putting much more emphasis on saving taxpayer's money than on delivering road projects. Maybe it's right but I would prefer more balanced approach as roads not finished for 2 or 3 years (like A1 near my home town) are costing Poland's economy (and life in some cases).

As I said, construction is complicated business with many things unexpected or which might change. Geologic conditions, weather, regulations etc. It is difficult if not impossible to write water-tight contracts which contains all the clauses which might be needed. That's where responsible sides, who both want to finish project, sit behind the negotiating table.

It looks like it is not happening in Poland. They go straight to accusations, threats, haggling etc. In my opinion both sides (GDDKiA and contractors) are equally guilty in most cases. Contractors look only for profits (which could be understandable) and officials in GDDKiA don't want to make any decisions which could be used against them as accusation of corruption or other wrongdoing. 
And then we have endless stalemates where both sides play waiting games.

And from posts on Polish forum it seems that disagreements are often about absolutely trivial details. Like unexpected waste dump on route, required changes into foundations of some small bridge, due to different hydro-geologic conditions on the ground than on maps etc. 
I really wish more cooperation and less war-like attitudes on both sides.


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## PLH

Wrocław skyline from an almost finished S8 towards Warsaw:









Foto: lookash80


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## metacatfry

^^^When this and other sections of the S8 scheduled for this year opens, you can drive from Zgorzelec in the southwest to Bialystok in the northeast on a route that is more than 50 percent motorway/ekspressway. Who would have thought so 10 years ago . This is interesting because the polish 'diagonal routes' were never explicitly part of the grand masterplan for the trunk roadnetwork, like the big three motorways.


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## stauzone

mcarling said:


> Tomorrow I'll be driving from Warsaw to Vienna. Google thinks the A2 hasn't yet opened between Warsaw and Lodz. Bing thinks the A1 has already opened over the MA532 bridge at Mszana. I'm impatiently waiting for Apple's mapping software based on Openstreetmaps.
> 
> My tentative plan is to leave Warsaw about 06:00, take the A2 to Lodz, then the A1 south. I hope to get through Lodz before the morning commute traffic slows down. Then my plan is to take the DK930 south from Swierklany to the DK933 in order to have a look at the infamous bridge. Are both the DK930 and DK933 open to traffic? Will I have any problem getting to the DK78 that way? Would it be better to take DW5021 (Ulica 1 Maja / Ulica Mszanska)? Any other suggestions?


 
I personally always go from Warschau to Vienna, over S8 till Piotrkow, further on 1 or sometimes S1 down till Bielsko-Biala, then S1 to CZ/PL border, and Brno.
When going or passing on south of Vienna I further go from Brno over Bratislava.
This way you have all the way at least 2x2 roads.


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## toonczyk

stauzone said:


> I personally always go from Warschau to Vienna, over S8 till Piotrkow, further on 1 or sometimes S1 down till Bielsko-Biala, then S1 to CZ/PL border, and Brno.


The problem is that S8 till Piotrków isn't ready yet. With very little traffic it takes about 2 hours to get from Warsaw to Piotrków Trybunalski, during high traffic it could very well be up to 3 hours. I still prefer that to going through A2, since getting through Łódź can be a nightmare, but it's debatable which way is faster.

Bielsko-Biała - Frýdek-Místek route (using S1) is definitely slower than A1 (Pyrzowice-Gliwice-Wodzisław Śląski-Bohumin-Ostrava).


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## bleetz

I have noticed that broken down vehicles on the A2 near roadside telephones had lots of cones placed around them (usually about 10). I was wondering: are those cones stored in the same large box with the telephone or do people carry them in their boots with them?


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## PLH

No, these cones are carried by the so called _Motorway patrol_:

http://autostrada-a2.pl/pl/galeria/3/a2-nowy-tomysl---konin/13/a2-nowy-tomysl---konin
top right hand corner


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## Chris80678

The opening of the (completed) border part of D1 has been postponed one more year due to the delay on the polish side hno:. 
It appears Poles will have to demolish the cursed Mszana bridge altogether and to build it afresh :bash: See Czech highways for source 
(article in Czech)


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## ChrisZwolle

Any comments on that from Poland? I'd like to see some Polish news article about it.


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## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> Any comments on that from Poland? I'd like to see some Polish news article about it.


Unless they know something I don't, it's not true what they say about MA532 being demolished. It requires additional strengthening for safety, the documentation is being prepared right now, but generally speaking the bridge is okay and will be safe and fully operational once a few modifications to the design are applied. I think the realistic scenario is opening in August/September 2013. Optimistic - maybe in spring?

Here's some Polish news article with quotes from GDDKiA spokesperson:
http://www.tuwodzislaw.pl/wiadomosc...prawia-most-reszta-gotowa,wia5-3266-4710.html


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## Kaczorm

A1 E75 near Łódź ( Stryków ) and Kutno.



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TBC.


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## Kaczorm

Also A1.



Kaczorm said:


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A2 E30 near Żyrardów ( west of Warsaw ):



Kaczorm said:


> ^^ Warszawa
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## ChrisZwolle

When will they open it? It looks pretty much finished.

I still hope to catch a nice aerial photo of the Lodz-North interchange.


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## Kaczorm

Well, I heard that it's going to be opened within next few weeks. Anyway, if you go north of Kutno, there are still places where the higway is not finished and even asphalt is not laid.



> I still hope to catch a nice aerial photo of the Lodz-North interchange.


I was near that interchange  Sorry, but next time ( so it will be like next week I think ) I can take a picture of that place


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## rakcancer

Another 20km stretch of A2 motorway - Minsk Mazowiecki bypass - is now open.
http://warszawa.gazeta.pl/warszawa/...cinek_A2__obwodnica_Minska_Mazowieckiego.html


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## mcarling

^^
Awesome! I hope this helps Ukrainians feel more connected with Europe, in addition to alleviating congestion east of Warsaw.


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## rakcancer

Actually it is on the way to the Belarus border not Ukrainian. You mixed it up with A4.


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## rakcancer

Here is interesting link with pictures from construction of A2 Minsk Mazowiecki bypass: http://fmi.waw.pl/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=173&start=20


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## mcarling

rakcancer said:


> Actually it is on the way to the Belarus border not Ukrainian.


You're right. I shouldn't post at 03:00.


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## mr.cool

Video of new A2 East of Warsaw-Minsk Mazowiecki. Next couple of weeks we should see another 35km of S8 Warsaw-Bialystok open and 14km of A4/S19 Rzeszow open too!


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## mr.cool

Continued..


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## Chris80678

Great news that the A2 Minsk Maz bypass is open :banana: when can we expect the whole stretch of the A2 between Warsaw and Siedlce constructed and open to traffic? Having this extra piece of motorway will alleviate the congestion in eastern Warsaw


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## rakcancer

Chris80678 said:


> Great news that the A2 Minsk Maz bypass is open :banana: when can we expect the whole stretch of the A2 between Warsaw and Siedlce constructed and open to traffic?


Sadly not soon...


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## mr.cool

Probably 2017 I reckon.


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## JackFrost

ok, thanks. thats not that bad. but why on earth was there a separate contractor picked for that short yellow section?

red sections going to be finished this year?


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## mcarling

Jack_Frost said:


> ok, thanks. thats not that bad. but why on earth was there a separate contractor picked for that short yellow section?


Some contractors cannot handle larger sections, so the larger sections means fewer competitors bidding for the contract.



Jack_Frost said:


> red sections going to be finished this year?


Probably some of them. It will depend on when winter sets in.


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## JackFrost

thanks. still about 150 kms to be inaugurated this year if everything goes as planned. nice...


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## mcarling

Jack_Frost said:


> thanks. still about 150 kms to be inaugurated this year if everything goes as planned. nice...


Between your questions here and in the SK forum, I would guess you might be planning a trip from Vienna to Lvov (or beyond).


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## JackFrost

no i am just a "connection-freak". i like to see the developments in europe (as we all do here i guess).
but as i am hungarian -living in vienna- my concern in the first place goes to linking budapest with warsawa, not vienna (which would be also fine of course)

as a matter of fact, ive never been to warsawa and i dont think ill wait until R4 is ready in slovakia or the polish counterpart to it to visit warsawa.


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## mcarling

Jack_Frost said:


> i am just a "connection-freak". i like to see the developments in europe (as we all do here i guess).


You may count me among that group. 



Jack_Frost said:


> ive never been to warsawa and i dont think ill wait until R4 is ready in slovakia or the polish counterpart to it to visit warsawa.


I suggest waiting at least until the S8 opens between Piotrków Trybunalski and Warsaw. I would also suggest going via Brno in one direction and via Zilina in the other direction.


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## Agnette

Strzala said:


> HD Hero or HD Hero2?


The first HD HERO.


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## Luki_SL

S7/S51 - Olsztynek bypass by los77




los77 said:


> *S7 Olsztynek - Nidzica (końcowy fragment odcinka w Olsztynku)​*
> Data wykonania zdjęć : *2012 09 02*
> 
> 
> Mea culpa , mea culpa , wiem że źle zrobiłem ale droga była taka fajna że musiałem się przejechać nową zachodnią obwodnicą Olsztynka. :cheers:
> 
> A ponieważ miałem jeszcze ze sobą aparat to także kilka zdjęć pstryknąłem.
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> Zaczynamy od końca odcinka którego zakończenie jest naprawdę w polu
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> Na wprost łącznica prowadząca z S51 na S7 w stronę Warszawy, po lewej łącznice zjazdowe z S7 w stronę Olsztyna, po prawej kierunek S51 ---> Gdańsk.
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> Mam jeszcze filmik z przejazdu zachodnią obwodnicą Olsztynka, wrzucę jak obrobię :cheers:
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> A jeśli ktoś chce zobaczyć co dzieje się na sąsiedniej drodze ekspresowej S51 zapraszam :
> tu http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=94732269&postcount=129
> i tu http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=94732543&postcount=130 (polecam szczególnie z uwagi na oznakowanie)





los77 said:


> *S51 Obwodnica Olsztynka cz. 1/2​*
> Data wykonania zdjęć : *2012 09 02*
> 
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> 3 miesiące jakie mineły od ostatniej wizyty na tej budowie to za dużo. Trzeba było zobaczyć co tam Panie nowego
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> cdn.





los77 said:


> *S51 Obwodnica Olsztynka cz.2/2​*
> Data wykonania zdjęć : *2012 09 02*
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> Na pierwszy rzut szykuje nam się nowy kawałek DK58 w Olsztynku
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> Czasami znaki drogowe przenoszą treści pośrednie. Może nawet ważniejsze od tych bezpośrednich :cheers: Że z Ameryką źle to już wielu wspominało , ale że Warszawa idzie w tym samym kierunku :nuts:
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> THE END
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> A jak komuś mało to polecam fotorelację z sąsiedniego odcinka S7 w Olsztynku http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=94731435&postcount=1529


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## DSzumaher

*S3: Gorzów Wlkp. - Międzyrzecz*
_more in the above link_


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## DSzumaher

*S3: Międzyrzecz - Sulechów*
_more in the above link_


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## mcarling

It has been reported in the Polish language forum that GDDKiA has assigned 30 September 2013 as the new opening date for the Bielsko-Biala - Zywiec section of the S69. I drove this about a month ago and the congestion was severe. I needed nearly an hour to travel a few kilometers near Zywiec. Based on the condition of the works I saw a month ago, I believe completion before winter sets in at the end of 2013 is realistic.

With the Slovak D3 scheduled to open in 2015, the Milówka - Przybędza section of the DK69 will become a major bottleneck as the S69 becomes the preferred route between Poland and Slovakia/Hungary (skipping the Czech Republic). I hope that at least the 1st carriageway of the Milówka - Przybędza S69 section will be funded early in the 2014-2020 budget cycle.


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## Deo

>


Lol, cool pic! xD


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## Rusonaldo

Expressway S8 between Wrocław and Łódź.


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## and802

mcarling said:


> It has been reported in the Polish language forum that GDDKiA has assigned 30 September 2013 as the new opening date for the Bielsko-Biala - Zywiec section of the S69. I drove this about a month ago and the congestion was severe. I needed nearly an hour to travel a few kilometers near Zywiec. Based on the condition of the works I saw a month ago, I believe completion before winter sets in at the end of 2013 is realistic.
> 
> With the Slovak D3 scheduled to open in 2015, the Milówka - Przybędza section of the DK69 will become a major bottleneck as the S69 becomes the preferred route between Poland and Slovakia/Hungary (skipping the Czech Republic). I hope that at least the 1st carriageway of the Milówka - Przybędza S69 section will be funded early in the 2014-2020 budget cycle.


mcarling,

no detail plans. I miss this route too. I go quite often from Warsawa to Budapest. Polish section is terrbile (actually up to Zilina, Slovakia)

just 3 months ago I thought main part of S69 would be finished on time. now if it is gonna be end of next year ... only wizzair can do it.


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## mcarling

I just took another look at this:


Ismael_D said:


>


I'm just a little bit surprised that the S1/S69 between their current (new) intersection and the A4/S1 intersection is not of enough priority to be included among the Reserve Projects (for construction during 2014-2020 if enough money can be obtained). I realize that there is already a dual carriageway, but it is circuitous and besmottered with many traffic lights. I expect this will become an important route between Poland and Slovakia/Hungary with the S69 section between Bielsko-Biala and Zywiec due to open in September 2013 and the D3 in Slovakia due to be completed by the end of 2015.

*and802*, what do you think of the current road (DK1) between these two points? Anyone else? I drove it a month ago and thought it was mediocre, having just suffered a major delay passing Zywiec. Had I just enjoyed the S69 section to be opened next year, I'm sure I would have thought worse of the DK1.

I do realize that the future opening of the Mszana bridge will relieve some of the traffic on this route, but I still believe it will be an important route with a higher AADT than it has now.


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## and802

well, DK1 ...

I live close to Warsaw, so do not go there everyday. anyway all I do is:

I plan my trip carefully. I set off at that particular time of day to avoid what happened to you on DK1. it used to be passable around 10.00 am work days. well I go there twice a year, casue this was an easiest way to visit wineries in Hungary. now I am not sure. everything around zywiec, and later skalite (SL) sections could take you easily 2 hours. so 60-70 km within two hours, hmmm the highest time to find a detour. as long as the whole section (Bielsko-Biala - Zilina) wont be ready I do not think AAD will raise noticeably. 

it used to be quite a spectacular route (you cross mountains), but now ... A1 is a competitor


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## rakcancer

*A4*

Few pics from construction of A4 near Rzeszow, south-east of Poland


greg73 said:


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## Kaczorm

A2 ( E30 )



Kaczorm said:


> Południowe okolice Głowna.
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> ^^WARSZAWA
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> ^^ BERLIN


A1 ( E75 ) / A2 ( E30 )



Kaczorm said:


> Ten słynny węzeł Łódź Północ.


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## ChrisZwolle

węzeł Łódź Północ.... very nice!


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## Surel

^^What can be the speed design of such an interchange? I mean in the bigger radius ramps.


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## ChrisZwolle

Damn GDDKiA wasn't kidding when they fired the contractor on A4 west of Dębica for doing nothing!


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## Surel

LOL, I like GDDKIA


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## mcarling

Surel said:


> ^^What can be the speed design of such an interchange? I mean in the bigger radius ramps.


Upwards of 300 km/h -- in a F1 car. On roller-skates, maybe 30 km/h. I guess the posted speed limit should probably be 70 or 80 km/h.


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## Surel

Thanks.


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## Chris80678

Any more motorway/expressway openings planned/coming up for September/October?


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## mcarling

Chris80678 said:


> Any more motorway/expressway openings planned/coming up for September/October?


Some possibilities:
- two sections of S8 toward Bialystok
- A4/S19 Rzeszow bypass
- S7 second carriageway of Kielce bypass
- A4 Tarnow bypass
- S8 near Wroclaw
- S11 near Poznan
- a few sections of the A1 between Torun and Lodz
- two sections of the S8 between Piotrkow Trybunalski and Warsaw

Did I miss any?


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## Luki_SL

^^There is no chance to open S7 second carriageway of Kielce bypass. S11 near Poznań too, because this construction is cancelled.


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## mcarling

Luki_SL said:


> There is no chance to open S7 second carriageway of Kielce bypass. S11 near Poznań too, because this construction is cancelled.


Thanks. What is the status of the Kielce bypass? I just had a look in the Polish language thread and it seems unlikely to open this year. Is that right?


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## Chris80678

Oh dear so many projects cancelled and motorways/expressways not being opened on time or severely delayed hno: We have had so few openings this year


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## metacatfry

That last sentence is bizarre! What do you mean? there has been more kilometers opened so far this year than the Polish annual average over the last decade.


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## toonczyk

A bit over 200km of new A/S roads opened this year. Last year we had about 300km, so this year we'll surely beat that by a large margin (it's gonna be approximately 400-450km of new A/S roads by the end of this year).


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## mcarling

The cancellations are of contracts, not projects. They will be built by other contractors (typically with many but not all of the same subcontractors). While there have been many delays, there has also been tremendous progress. As *metacatfry* correctly observed, the number of kilometers of motorways and expressways opened just so far this year exceeds typical numbers for whole years -- and there is quite a bit more which will open this year before winter sets in.

It's true that some road sections which had been planned to open this year will instead open next year, for example the S69 between Bielsko-Biala and Zywiec. That's just the nature of highway construction. Delays occur everywhere -- even in Singapore. It would not be reasonable to assume that everything will always go exactly according to plan.


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## and802

^^

correct. there are so many unpredictible circumstances druing construction works, so I could say "the delays" are a part of them.


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## geogregor

mcarling said:


> IThat's just the nature of highway construction. Delays occur everywhere -- even in Singapore. It would not be reasonable to assume that everything will always go exactly according to plan.


Of course, even Germans face delays, look at the ongoing saga of the new Berlin airport 

However I'm disappointed by number of problems on two of the most important roads in Poland; A1 and A4. There are many delayed stretches, more and more contractors are getting bankrupt or just kicked out.

Especially A4, road which they were planning to open for Euro 2012 will be open probably just in time for Brasil 2014 :lol:


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## Luki_SL

mcarling said:


> Thanks. What is the status of the Kielce bypass? I just had a look in the Polish language thread and it seems unlikely to open this year. Is that right?


That`s right, S7 won`t be open this year. Real date to open this section of S7 expressway is sprint 2013. The main reason of delay is old coal lead which was located near carriageway. 

The Kielce bypass is normal national road now, the "S" was deleted at the beginning of second carriegeway construction.


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## Strzala

S12/S17 section Piaski-Lublin junction "Witosa":






Map:

http://goo.gl/maps/wBLyd


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx8QGxTYYcc


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## ChrisZwolle

So A4/S19 will open today around Rzeszów? Rzeszów-Centralny - East - Stobierna?


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## PLH

^^ Opened to traffic at 5 pm.



>


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## Luki_SL

A4 Rzeszów - some new photos by Renegat 



'renegat' said:


>


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## rakcancer

how long is that new section of A4/S19?


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## ChrisZwolle

First motorway of Podkarpackie


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## Kaczorm

[ S8 ] [ E67 ]



Kaczorm said:


> Sieradz.


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## Kaczorm

[ S8 ] [ E67 ] / [ A1 ] [ E75 ]



Kaczorm said:


> S8/A1


I guess it will be called Łódź - Południe ( Łódź - South ).


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## Strzala

rakcancer said:


> how long is that new section of A4/S19?


15,2 km


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## ChrisZwolle

Interesting, so actually a portion of A1 is under construction south of Łódź.


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## toonczyk

^^ 2800 meters of it  I'm actually really confused why is this interchange built under S8 contract, since it was supposed to be ready after A1, but given the delays on A1 it doesn't matter anymore.
Good news about the rest of A1 Stryków-Tuszyn is that the contractor has applied for construction permits for all remaining sections, so hopefully they'll start construction in Q1 of next year.


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## mcarling

http://i48.tinypic.com/330cj1z.jpg


Is this view to the west?


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## ChrisZwolle

Yes. It appears that the S8 could be extended east towards the S8 from Piotrków Trybunalski to Warszawa.


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## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> It appears that the S8 could be extended east towards the S8 from Piotrków Trybunalski to Warszawa.


That's what I was thinking.


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## PLH

This however will not happen that fast. You can see that they didn't even bother to put two small toll booths at the interchange, but a big one before it (first photo).


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## Kaczorm

mcarling said:


> http://i48.tinypic.com/330cj1z.jpg
> 
> 
> Is this view to the west?


Yes, this is to the west and the road which is going westbound is S8. The parallel one is A1.


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## madad

Hello forum colleagues,

I am driving a few times per year between Ostrava (CZ) and Gliwice (PL) on my way from Brno to Poznan.

Can anyone tell me please if the PL A1 motorway is/or will be open soon between CZ border and Rybnik, I remember that section was under construction.

My next trip is in October and I was hoping to have a good connection between the countries.

Many thanks for letting me know.

Madalin, Romania


----------



## toonczyk

^^ Unfortunately A1/D1 between Bohumin and Świerklany isn't ready and won't be this year. When D1 ends on the Czech side, just head for Polish border and DK78 towards Rybnik. In Wodzisław Śląski turn right on the third roundabout (there is a McDonalds by the first one, second one has this weird 8-like shape, third one is near an Orlen petrol station - that's where you take a right). Then straight ahead through the villages till A1.
http://nok.it/4QW6r


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## geogregor

toonczyk said:


> ^^ 2800 meters of it  I'm actually really confused why is this interchange built under S8 contract, since it was supposed to be ready after A1, but given the delays on A1 it doesn't matter anymore.
> Good news about the rest of A1 Stryków-Tuszyn is that the contractor has applied for construction permits for all remaining sections, so hopefully they'll start construction in Q1 of next year.


Do you seriously believe it? Polimex (main contractor) is slowly dying. Unfortunately apart from A1 it also affects S69 from BB to Zywiec where not much is happening, most subcontractors already left.

I know we build a lot in Poland, but number of problematic contracts is staggering. I can understand one or two but it seems problems are popping up everywhere:
A4: (two stretches without contractors, the rest massively delayed), 
A1: (three stretches without contractors, who know when bypss of Lodz construction will start as the main contractor is almost dead).
I won't even mention the famous bridge in Mszana 
S5: (huge delays on Rawicz bypass), 
S69: (huge delays, main contractor nearly bankrupt) 
hno:hno:hno:
Let's hope there won't be any problems on S8 or S3. Especially that S8 is an important route.

I'm lucky I don't have to drive in Poland every day. All those failures would drive me mad.


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## mcarling

madad said:


> I am driving a few times per year between Ostrava (CZ) and Gliwice (PL) on my way from Brno to Poznan.


I would not go via Ostrava to get from Brno to Poznan before completion of construction on the section you mention. I would go via Klodzko. After completion of construction and opening of the D1/A1, then I might go via Ostrava.


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## madad

toonczyk said:


> ^^ Unfortunately A1/D1 between Bohumin and Świerklany isn't ready and won't be this year. When D1 ends on the Czech side, just head for Polish border and DK78 towards Rybnik. In Wodzisław Śląski turn right on the third roundabout (there is a McDonalds by the first one, second one has this weird 8-like shape, third one is near an Orlen petrol station - that's where you take a right). Then straight ahead through the villages till A1.
> http://nok.it/4QW6r





mcarling said:


> I would not go via Ostrava to get from Brno to Poznan before completion of construction on the section you mention. I would go via Klodzko. After completion of construction and opening of the D1/A1, then I might go via Ostrava.


Cheers for info! :cheers:
Is there any future opening date announce for A1/D1?


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## Bzyq_74

madad said:


> Is there any future opening date announce for A1/D1?


August 2013


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## Chris80678

ChrisZwolle said:


> First motorway of Podkarpackie


Which other sections of the A4 motorway between Szarów (DK75) and Korczowa can we realistcally expect to see opened in 2012? (not including the short Rzeszów bypass which opened yesterday). Or will we have to wait until 2013 to see more parts of A4 open?

Progress on this stretch of this motorway seems to be so slow :bash:


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## bewu1

geogregor said:


> Do you seriously believe it? Polimex (main contractor) is slowly dying. Unfortunately apart from A1 it also affects S69 from BB to Zywiec where not much is happening, most subcontractors already left.
> 
> I know we build a lot in Poland, but number of problematic contracts is staggering. I can understand one or two but it seems problems are popping up everywhere:
> A4: (two stretches without contractors, the rest massively delayed),
> A1: (three stretches without contractors, who know when bypss of Lodz construction will start as the main contractor is almost dead).
> I won't even mention the famous bridge in Mszana
> S5: (huge delays on Rawicz bypass),
> S69: (huge delays, main contractor nearly bankrupt)
> hno:hno:hno:
> Let's hope there won't be any problems on S8 or S3. Especially that S8 is an important route.
> 
> I'm lucky I don't have to drive in Poland every day. All those failures would drive me mad.


To be honest one shall admit that problems with three sections on A-1, one section on A-4, and S-5 are due to just one contractor.


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## phantom23

S8 Jeżewo-Białystok will be open tomorrow! Zambrów bypass till the end of September.


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## kmieciu

S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów, aerial photos from May 2012, direction north to south. source



> WD13
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> Interchange Świebodzin PD


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## kmieciu

*S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów 15.09.2012* more photos



> WD-01 - układanie krawężników
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> WS-02a - ustroje nośne przed nasunięciem ostatnich segmentów
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> WS-09 - wykonano 8 przęseł jezdni wschodniej i 4 przęsła jezdni zachodniej
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> Droga główna po ułożeniu warstwy SMA, widok w kierunku węzła Jordanowo z 11km. W tle <<< Poznań A2 Świecko >>>
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> Droga główna po ułożeniu warstwy SMA, widok z wiaduktu WD13 w kierunku północnym. W tle WD12


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## kmieciu

*S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów 15.09.2012* more photos



> oznakowanie poziome na rondzie poł_
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> układanie warstwy ścieralnej SMA, TG km 24+900
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> wykonywanie podbudowy z kruszywa łamanego stabilizowanego mechanicznie, TG km 42+100
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> zagęszczanie nasypu, TG - rejon węzła Sulechów


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## rakcancer

*new connector on S7 Gdansk bypass*

This is construction of new connecting road starting at recently opened S7 - Gdansk bypass. It is part of two major projects called Green Route and Sucharski Route. When finished, it will serve industrial North Port area as well as central and north part of city after constructing tunnel under Vistula river in downtown of Gdansk.



pab said:


> Trasa Sucharskiego - obwodnica południowa-Elbląska 7.9.2012


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## mr.cool

According to Hetman's schedule there is a big week (till 30th) of openings set to happen:

S8 Wroclaw - Olesnica (22km)
A4 Section C Szarow - Tarnow (14km)
S8 Zambrow bypass (11km)
S11 North Western Poznan bypass (8km)
S8 Warsaw - Lodz (83km)

Are any of these likely?


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## RipleyLV

^^ S8 in Zambrów is practically ready to open at any time now.


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## Xmaster

Maybe anybody knows why http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/ map is currently so outdated and not getting any updates?


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## Chris80678

RipleyLV said:


> ^^ S8 in Zambrów is practically ready to open at any time now.


According to zumi.pl S8 in Zambrów is already opened to traffic as it appears on the map 
(yet the A2 Mińsk Maz bypass, part of A4 Rzeszów bypass and S19 Rzeszów - Stobiernia which are all opened to traffic have yet to appear!) :nuts:

Anyway S8 Wrocław - Oleśnica and S8 Piotryków Trb - Rawa Maz are also ready to open any time now (going by the photos on their respective websites and updated work schedule)
^^

Shame that work on the S2 southern Warsaw bypass is not progressing as fast! :bash:


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## ufonut

Xmaster said:


> Maybe anybody knows why http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/ map is currently so outdated and not getting any updates?


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=95715832&postcount=4426


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## toonczyk

Xmaster said:


> Maybe anybody knows why http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/ map is currently so outdated and not getting any updates?


Most likely author is on holidays.


Chris80678 said:


> S8 Piotryków Trb - Rawa Maz are also ready to open any time now (going by the photos on their respective websites and updated work schedule)


S8 Mszczonów - Piotrków Trybunalski should be finished in about a month. There is still lots of small details to finish up - fences, barriers, signage - but they are working on it, even today (Sunday) I've seen lots of activity. Small section closest to Warsaw (different contract) most likely won't be ready this year though, a flooding last year delayed the construction by quite some time.


Chris80678 said:


> Shame that work on the S2 southern Warsaw bypass is not progressing as fast! :bash:


The pace is quite ridiculous, but there is nothing we can do I guess. It's shaping up for a large legal battle between one of the contractors (Bilfinger Berger) and GDDKiA, apparently some improper materials have been used in embankments. Anyway, right now we're hoping for a spring (2013) opening.


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## Lankosher

S8 Piotrków Trybunalski - Radziejowice - Fresh video



topjes said:


> ....


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## RipleyLV

Chris80678 said:


> According to zumi.pl S8 in Zambrów is already opened to traffic as it appears on the map


Just got the word that it's still closed.


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## flierfy

toonczyk said:


> It looks like a normal turbine to me (well, except its one quarter which is a cloverleaf). How else would you have built it?


A turbine junction for left-hand sided traffic usually looks like this while for right-hand side traffic the layout is mirrored. For some mysterious reason Polnoc interchange is built with the orientation of left-hand sided countries. Hence my remarks.


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## mcarling

Xmaster said:


> Maybe anybody knows why http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/ map is currently so outdated and not getting any updates?


Now updated.


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## mdhookey

mcarling said:


> Now updated.


Really? I still see the old map


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## toonczyk

flierfy said:


> A turbine junction for left-hand sided traffic usually looks like this while for right-hand side traffic the layout is mirrored. For some mysterious reason Polnoc interchange is built with the orientation of left-hand sided countries. Hence my remarks.


I honestly can't see the difference.


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## metacatfry

Is it to do with the position of the overpasses relative to each other and the 'inside' and 'outside' of the interchange? So traffic making a 90 degree turn flying over the other artery road starts out on the 'outside', then passes the other artery on the 'inside', relative to the 90 degree removed traffic path. Sorry for confusing explanation.
And I have no idea why this should matter, or even why 'most' turbines should be one way over the other.


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## mcarling

mdhookey said:


> Really? I still see the old map


The new map is dated 27 September. The old map was dated 16 August. Maybe you need to refresh or restart your browser?


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## winn^

mdhookey said:


> Really? I still see the old map


press ctrl+F5


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## flierfy

metacatfry said:


> Is it to do with the position of the overpasses relative to each other and the 'inside' and 'outside' of the interchange? So traffic making a 90 degree turn flying over the other artery road starts out on the 'outside', then passes the other artery on the 'inside', relative to the 90 degree removed traffic path. Sorry for confusing explanation.
> And I have no idea why this should matter, or even why 'most' turbines should be one way over the other.


It does matter insofar that diverging turning traffic jointly from the main carriageway is favourable over two separate turn-offs.


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## metacatfry

I think I understand. Having two turnoffs from a motorway in close succession would be undesirable. However I don't really see in the polish A1/A2 any such problem. In the second link, if traffic had run in reverse, it would have to negotiate a bad situation with very close turnoffs for traffic going left and right. However neither the design of the polish turbine nor the design in the first link, if run reversed, would have the same problem as far as i can see. So this problem seem to me to have more to do with the length of the off ramps and the distance between turnoffs, than the 'direction' of the turbine.
I'm sorry if I have misunderstood, I might very well have.

PS Although, after some more thinking I think I can see the space considerations make it easier to fit those considerations in in a 'correct-way-around' turbine. And the polish A1/A2 does have some very long turnoffs.


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## phantom23

RipleyLV said:


> Just got the word that it's still closed.


It is closed, official opening date is 2nd October.


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## erykko

A short movie. From Lublin to Piaski, an express way S12/S17 begins in 1:50 of the film. You can see a lot of sound barriers.


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## koszatek

S2 in Warsaw, from Na Skraju to Puławska.


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## koszatek




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## Luki_SL

Yesterday was opened expressway section of S7/S51 bypass of Olsztynek - 12km long.
Due to final works, there will be speed limit 70km/h. It`ll take about two weeks.


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## ChrisZwolle

I'm wondering about the following projects.

* A18 Olszyna - Krzyzowa: any news?
* A4: which sections will open first?
* S7: Kraków bypass, any news regarding the Wisla crossing?
* S5: Gniezno - Bydgoszcz, when can we expect construction?
* S1: Tychy - Bielsko-Biala, when will this link be constructed?


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> I'm wondering about the following projects.


Please find some answers below.


> * A18 Olszyna - Krzyzowa: any news?


Not on the priority list. Hopefully, someone shall decide for 2+1 option on one carriageway;


> * S7: Kraków bypass, any news regarding the Wisla crossing?


As many other projects which are ready to start, awaiting for:
- results of tenders announced for ongoing projects which lost its general contractor (we need to finish what we started first); 
- possible realocation of EU money from rail to road sector;
- choosing which projects should receive funding first;


> * S5: Gniezno - Bydgoszcz, when can we expect construction?


2014 - 2020 EU Financial Framework


> * S1: Tychy - Bielsko-Biala, when will this link be constructed?


Preliminary studies ongoing. First maps: http://www.s1.myslowice-bielsko-biala.pl/ 
In my opinion: 2020+


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## Chris80678

Luki_SL said:


> Yesterday was opened expressway section of S7/S51 bypass of Olsztynek - 12km long.
> Due to final works, there will be speed limit 70km/h. It`ll take about two weeks.


When will the S51 be extended northwards to Olsztyn and opened to traffic?


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## Jakub Warszauer

Chris80678 said:


> When will the S51 be extended northwards to Olsztyn and opened to traffic?


If there will be enough EU money: 2014 - 2020.


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## toonczyk

Bypass of Zambrów and Wiśniewo (S8) has been opened.


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## rakcancer

We have first wise decision from our Ministry of Environmental Protection regarding infamous noise screens built along our highways. According to new law noise limits which were so far one of the most strict in Europe are going to be lowered. In result there will be no needs to build sometimes gigantic size of noise screens in the middle of nowhere. Now it can be replaced for example by planting dense bushes or trees. Other decisions regarding above topic are to be announced.
http://warszawa.gazeta.pl/warszawa/...kranow__Minister_podpisal_rozporzadzenie.html


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## toonczyk

Except it probably won't change much for major roads scheduled to be built in the following years, because they already have their environmental impact assessment finished under former rules. Unless GDDKiA manages to redo it and get new decisions before building all those roads marked in blue here:
http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/

... but that seems unlikely.


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## ChrisZwolle

This is a good development. Poland was on a fast-track to become the ugliest country from a traveler's view.


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## rakcancer

Knowing polish reality and our "bureaucratic order" they will be built then they will be removed or lowered...


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## Rombi

"blablabla" If you have nothing interesting to say just keep your thoughts for yourself, please.

I'm really happy to hear that news. In addition what Chris said there is always factor of dangerous with these noise screens. Driving long hours in such tunnel can be really claustrophobic. It was sick for sure.


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## Janek0

Rombi said:


> In addition what Chris said there is always factor of dangerous with these noise screens. Driving long hours in such tunnel can be really claustrophobic. It was sick for sure.


Where have you seen such long tunnel (hours of driving=hundreds of kilometers)?


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## rakcancer

I think he must have claustrophobic nightmares.


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## and802

guys, you both calm down


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## Beck's

Rombi said:


> "blablabla" If you have nothing interesting to say just keep your thoughts for yourself, please.
> 
> I'm really happy to hear that news. In addition what Chris said there is always factor of dangerous with these noise screens. Driving long hours in such tunnel can be really claustrophobic. It was sick for sure.


I'm really happy too. Driving through highways in Poland is...boring for sure, cause it's seen noisy screens istead of landscape.


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## metacatfry

What is the status of the short stretch of S8 in Warsaw from Aleje Jerozolimskie to the S2? the famous map seems to say it should have finished in August, although it isn't usable before the S2 opens. I heard it is more delayed than the S2 from Konotopa to Pulawska. Will the S2 stretch open before this S8 stretch?


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## toonczyk

^^ ^^ It's delayed because they still haven't managed to move some water pipes. I guess it's possible they'll open it together with S2, but Salomea interchange (where Al. Jerozolimskie, S8 and Nowolazurowa meet) won't be fully operational before next summer. Anyway, S2 opening before summer isn't sure either... we'll just have to wait and see. Here's some photos from 2 weeks ago.

This is where S8 meets Al. Jerozolimskie, looking north:









And here's a view to the south (bridge over a railway, behind it S8 is pretty much ready up until S2 - Opacz interchange):


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## metacatfry

Thank you toonczyk! I'm looking forward to seeing the entire Varsovian southern motorway complex completed sometime next year. It'll be a step change for the city and the airport, and all the businesses and people. I just hope the interchanges with Pulawska and Krakowska won't jam completely up.


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## mcarling

toonczyk said:


> Bypass of Zambrów and Wiśniewo (S8) has been opened.


Wiśniewo??? S8???

I'm glad that the Zambrów bypass is open. I drive between Warsaw and Bialystok from time to time. Apart from raising the speed limit after the sound barriers have been installed, what's next for this section of the S8? The Marki bypass?


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## ChrisZwolle

Wiśniewo is a village northeast of Zambrów that is also bypassed.


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## toonczyk

mcarling said:


> what's next for this section of the S8? The Marki bypass?


Hopefuly. We're still waiting for a new road program for years 2014-2020, it should be published before end of the year.


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## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> Wiśniewo is a village northeast of Zambrów that is also bypassed.


Before posting, I looked on map and didn't find it there, but I did find Wiśniewo northwest of Warsaw. Now I see it between Gardlin and Cwikly-Krajewo.


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## ufonut

S8 Wroclaw - Olesnica almost ready



Nomin said:


> Zdaje się, że jestem jednym z tych nielicznych, który wie jak to zrobić w odniesienu do zdjęć publikowanych w witrynie GWr. Zatem niech stracę:
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## PLH

^^ Opening tomorrow.


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## maciek9207

S8 - Zambrow bypass. From Warsaw to Bialystok.


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## ufonut

Speaking of S8 bypassing Zambrow here is a great traffic comparison before and after the opening.


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## bleetz

Nice kay:


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## maciek9207

Zambrow bypass from Bialystok to Warsaw.


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## Miguel_PL

I've just heard that the new motorway & expressway signage will be introduced in Poland next year. Any leaks how it will look like?


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## rakcancer

S8 Wroclaw - Olesnica opened yesterday. 22 km.



wicio said:


> http://wroclaw.gazeta.pl/wroclaw/1,35751,12622774,Oni_juz_pomkneli_dlesnicy__Jak_oceniaja_nowa_S8_.html
> Oni już pomknęli do Oleśnicy. Jak oceniają nową S8? [FOTO]
> źródło: Gazeta.pl


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## PLH

Miguel_PL said:


> I've just heard that the new motorway & expressway signage will be introduced in Poland next year. Any leaks how it will look like?


No, not yet.

We've only heard about a new(simpler) border speed limit sign.


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## Chris80678

Is there an official date yet for the opening of the A1 between Kowal and Stryków? It is supposed to be before 1st November 2012 :cheers:


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## ufonut

S79 Warszawa by bacique



bacique said:


> Maly lajf z S79 i w. Marynarska :
> 
> SMA i oznakowanie cud miod malina
> 
> 
> Przeszedlem na druga strone
> 
> 
> c.d.n.


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## and802

S8 Wroclaw - Olesnica section (a 22 km long route) has been opened.


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## lulek89

My today video from newly opened S8 Oleśnica - Wrocław, and from A8 (Wrocław bypass):





Route map:


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## ChrisZwolle

Is there an overview of the national government road budgets for the past several years?


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## Strzala

S17 section Lublin-Piaski:



Pit 1982 said:


> Klika dzisiejszych zdjęć z 5
> 
> 1. widok z WD 5 w stronę Piask
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. z WD 5, na Lublin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3.





Pit 1982 said:


> 4.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6. z WD 3 na Piaski





Pit 1982 said:


> 7.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8. z WD 3, na Lublin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9. WD 3





Pit 1982 said:


> 10. na Piaski z węzeła Świdnik, w oddali lejom asfalt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 11.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Koniec
> 
> Fotorelacja wstawiona automatycznie.


----------



## rakcancer

Not a big fan of bus stops on expressways. Correct me if I am wrong, this is fortunately not too common in Poland.


----------



## kooba

rakcancer said:


> Not a big fan of bus stops on expressways. Correct me if I am wrong, this is fortunately not too common in Poland.


I would say they are rare. Personally never see one. As far as i know there is just couple of them.


----------



## CasperCriss

It's the first time i see a bus stop on an expressway. And very nice pictures.


----------



## mjarski

CasperCriss said:


> It's the first time i see a bus stop on an expressway. And very nice pictures.


This is not a bas stop for sure, probably a place for vehicle inspection (weighbridge?).


----------



## toonczyk

mjarski said:


> This is not a bas stop for sure, probably a place for vehicle inspection (weighbridge?).


I'm pretty sure that's a bus stop, we have those on some expressways.


----------



## asahi

Bus stops are pretty common on Japanese expressways too.

I think in Poland it makes sense, since many expressways are in fact a re-build national roads often with suburban bus traffic, like on S-11 near Poznań. Such bus stops serve the local community which I find a good thing.


----------



## rakcancer

I think the only reason of placing bus stops directly on expressways is a lack of parallel service road or any road that can be used for that purpose. Expressways shouldn't serve local traffic in most cases.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

From the motorway openings thread:



DammianBB said:


> October 16,2012
> Poland
> S8 expressway between Rawa Mazowiecka and Adamowice opened to traffic. Length 22km.


Any official source to back that up? GDDKiA doesn't mention it, nor does their facebook page which is usually quite up-to-date when it comes to new openings.


----------



## PLH

Well, because this is a recontruction, 'opened to traffic' means two lanes in each direction are now availible, not that everything is done to the very last detail, thus no official opening so far.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Okay, but the main works are finished here?


----------



## mcarling

In my opinion, the salient point is that two lanes are (reportedly) open in each direction. If the speed limit of 120 kph is now in force, all the better. Any details about which works are finished seems minor to me by comparison.


----------



## toonczyk

To be honest I still haven't heard any confirmation that both lanes in each direction are open, I'm a bit skeptical about that.

In other news, here's a few progress photos from A1 Sójki-Kotliska, BaK are doing miracles there. Photos by tasek.
25.09.2012:









04.10.2012:









11.10.2012:









16.10.2012:


----------



## mcarling

toonczyk said:


> In other news, here's a few progress photos from A1 Sójki-Kotliska ....


Google Earth now shows 1700 meters of the A1 open near Dabrowska. I'm very skeptical.


----------



## Luki_SL

Node Bytom was opened to traffic on 16 October 2012 in the evening. It connects A1 motorway with National Road 11.


----------



## PLH

ChrisZwolle said:


> Okay, but the main works are finished here?


Yep.



mcarling said:


> If the speed limit of 120 kph is now in force, all the better.


They'll probably put the S sign only when the whole section is complete.


----------



## Strzala

S7 Kielce bypass - Skarżysko Kamienna:






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS23BZMNluU


----------



## Chris80678

When are we likely to see work commencing on extending the S7 from Skarżysko Kamienna to join it with the current S7 north of Radom thus creating an entire stretch of S7 expressway at least between Grójec and Kielce? March 2013 can't come soon enough to see the Kielce bypass 
fully upgraded to dual carriageway on each side :cheers:


----------



## mcarling

Chris80678 said:


> When are we likely to see work commencing on extending the S7 from Skarżysko Kamienna to join it with the current S7 north of Radom thus creating an entire stretch of S7 expressway at least between Grójec and Kielce?


The current plan is to complete the S7 all the way between Warsaw and Krakow by 2020. The Radom bypass should be next after the Kielce bypass.


----------



## Chris80678

Perhaps we shall have some fresh motorway openings before October is over? For example the A1 (Kowal - Stryków) and the A4 (Szarów - Bochnia) 
(albeit it partial with only a single carriageway open on some parts of this motorway stretch)


----------



## GrimFadango

New maps:

1)
by Moloch, Esce, Latajacy-dywan, Hubson

last update 21-10-2012

A1 (Czerniewice - Brzezie) - tender
A1 (węzeł Bytom) - opened to traffic
S8 (Obwodnica Zambrowa) - opened to traffic
S8 (Wrocław - Oleśnica) - opened to traffic
S8 (Rawa Mazowiecka - Adamowice) - opened to traffic

*Interactive version here - contains links to threads in polish forum road section*

*Layer version tutaj - allows to activate/deactivate layers*











2)
by IgorSel

last update 21-10-2012

S8 (juntion Paszków - junction Opacz) - application for ZnRID
A2 (Stryków - Konotopa parts A & C) - fully opened to traffic
A4 (Rzeszów west - Rzeszów central) - opened offers in ongoing tender
S8 (Rawa Mazowiecka - voivodship Mazowieckie border) - opened to traffic except pedestarian passage in Babsko

This map version contains information also about national roads (grey, not bolded), bypasses (gray bolded) and other stuff (dont have time to translate legened, somebody else?)

New DŚU applications:
S17 Piaski - Hrebenne
S19 voivodship Lubelskie northern border - Lublin northern bypass
S11 Szczecinek bypass
S19 Lublin southern bypass - voivodship Lubelskie southern border
S7 voivodship Świętokrzyskie northern border - Skarżysko Kamienna
S19 Kielanówka - Barwinek
S61 Ostrów Mazowiecka - Szczuczyn bypass
S74 Cedzyna - Opatów bypass
S7 Płońsk - Czosnów
Cracow - Cracow northern bypass


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The first map does not display the Olsztynek bypass yet as opened.


----------



## Surel

There is news going on the czech sites that a detour for the A1 is found around Mszana, and that the A1/D1 could be openened since 1-12-2012. This information comes from the director of the RSD.

http://www.rozhlas.cz/zpravy/region...ne-d1-u-bohumina-brzy-vystridat-auta--1128323

Anyone having any info on this?


----------



## mcarling

^^
I assume the new detour will be via Kopalniana Road from Gorzyczki to the Route 78.


----------



## rakcancer

A1 Torun -Strykow section



tasek said:


> Zapowiadane jak co tydzień fotki z odcinka B&K
> Z węzła Kotliska w kierunku WD 210
> 
> z WA 207 w kierunku Kowala
> 
> i w stronę Strykowa
> 
> w oddali węzeł Kotliska
> 
> 
> 
> Z WD 205 w kierunku Kowala
> 
> 
> Z WD 205 w kierunku Strykowa-zoom


----------



## Surel

mcarling said:


> ^^
> I assume the new detour will be via Kopalniana Road from Gorzyczki to the Route 78.


I hoped for bypassing only the bridge or the section from Mszana to Swierklany. Any opening will be great though.


----------



## Jaromir

*Connection Bohumín (CZ) - Świerklany (PL)*



Surel said:


> I hoped for bypassing only the bridge or the section from Mszana to Swierklany. Any opening will be great though.


The connection between A1 and D1 will be opened on 30.11.2012 for cars (not for trucks). The cars will go from the Czech Republic to Mszana, then left the motorway and connect on the motorway again in the Swierklany. This will be the reality until the problematic bridge will be finished.

The source: http://www.ceskedalnice.cz/novinky#n-25102012-1


----------



## Luki_SL

^^ The General Directorate of National Roads and Motorways claim still that A1 motorway Świerklany-Gorzyczki (state border) will be open in second quarter of 2013 year. There is no information about opening on 30.11.2012.


----------



## geogregor

Luki_SL said:


> ^^ The General Directorate of National Roads and Motorways


We could translate it as Polish Road Authority or something like that, simpler than mirror translation of Polish name. Which in English sounds quite funny.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^It`s _formal_ name from GDDKiA website I know it sounds funny


----------



## mapman:cz

Hm, about the D1/A1 opening, I'm still pretty sceptical. There are some talks between czech and polish side, but nothing is for sure yet. Nevertheless, ithe czech side has been informed that it's possible to open the Gorzyczki - Mszana section and use the respective branch of the junction Mszana. AFAIK no heavy vehicles will be allowed there, so that the traffic spreads on two routes, heavy vehcles on DK 78, light vehicles on A1 + respective DWs...


----------



## Surel

^^That would be nice anyway. I am quite pleased since that would be exactly what I proposed here months ago .


----------



## Luki_SL

mapman:cz said:


> Hm, about the D1/A1 opening, I'm still pretty sceptical. There are some talks between czech and polish side, but nothing is for sure yet. Nevertheless, ithe czech side has been informed that it's possible to open the Gorzyczki - Mszana section and use the respective branch of the junction Mszana. AFAIK no heavy vehicles will be allowed there, so that the traffic spreads on two routes, heavy vehcles on DK 78, light vehicles on A1 + respective DWs...


Are there any talks about numbering? Czech side has still E462, Polish side ... E75 It will be look strange if somebody cross the PL/CZ border


----------



## Surel

Luki_SL said:


> Are there any talks about numbering? Czech side has still E462, Polish side ... E75 It will be look strange if somebody cross the PL/CZ border


They could add E462 on the polish side and E75 on the czech side to make it consistent .

I dont really think that the czechs will want to have there the E75 since that would bring quite a trouble further away.


----------



## ufonut

S8 Piotrkow Trybunalski - Wolica by *topjes*


----------



## RipleyLV

^^ Nice! :cheers:


----------



## ufonut

S11 Western bypass of Poznan by *Carte*

BTW Money has been allocated for the last 5 km section of S11. When completed this bypass will be 25km long.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Amazing photos


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interesting spot, a former Rijkswaterstaat (Netherlands road authority) snow plow in Poland.


----------



## keokiracer

What exactly is the point of that road on the rest area (in red circle)? There's clearly some kind of viaduct made for it, but the road is kinda useless since you can just use the road on the far right of the circle to get onto the highway.








I hope someone can explain


----------



## ufonut

It could be a weigh station for trucks with a scale embedded in the road.


----------



## rakcancer

del


----------



## rakcancer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Interesting spot, a former Rijkswaterstaat (Netherlands road authority) snow plow in Poland.


No borders, cruise control... maybe driver fell asleep and end up in Poland


----------



## keokiracer

^^ Interesting that he was driving when there isn't even any snow here :lol:

@ufonut Hadn't even thought of that, it would explain the different color asphalt too.


----------



## toonczyk

keokiracer said:


> ^^ Interesting that he was driving when there isn't even any snow here :lol:


The temperature is about 0°C right now, could get colder at night, they are applying salt to prevent water from freezing and forming black ice.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Spraying salt is a prevention measure. It doesn't work if you spray salt when there is already snow accumulation on the road. That's when the snow plows come in. Salt is also only effective at not too low temperatures and if there's enough traffic to drive it into the pavement.


----------



## Carte

ChrisZwolle said:


> Amazing photos


Thanks Chris 

S5 Eastern bypass of Poznań:




















More photos: https://picasaweb.google.com/Carte.***/26102012


----------



## bogdymol

ufonut said:


> S11 Western bypass of Poznan by *Carte*
> 
> BTW Money has been allocated for the last 5 km section of S11. When completed this bypass will be 25km long.


Now this is kind of weird...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No it's not 

The loop for left-turning traffic is still missing, so traffic has to turn around and then take the exit.


----------



## bogdymol

Yes, it's still weird. In Romania we just put a roundabout in the middle of the motorway, not build a loop...


----------



## ja.centy

^^ Good for you.


----------



## Luki_SL

ufonut said:


> It could be a weigh station for trucks with a scale embedded in the road.


You`re right, its weight station using by Road Transport Inspection.


----------



## RipleyLV

So S8 from Mszczonów to Piotrków Tryb. is completed? Not just part of it?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The entire route in Lodz voievodeship has been completed more or less. The part around Mszczonów is still U/C.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^It is said to be completed on december 2012.


----------



## Luki_SL

A 8km section of S11 expressway Złotków-Rokietnica (western bypass of Poznań) was opened to traffic today. Road is open for cars <3,5t, till the last section of S11 expressway Rokietnica - Swadzim (S11/92 interchange) will be built.


----------



## LMB

Luki_SL said:


> A 8km section of S11 expressway Złotków-Rokietnica (western bypass of Poznań) was opened today. Road is open for cars <3,5t, till the last section of S11 expressway Rokietnica - Swadzim (S11/92 interchange) will be built.


So what's up with that last section? There were some NIMBY protest.


----------



## masages21

It will have been built by the end of 2014 but the Polish Road Authority isn't sure if 2 lanes will be finished.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's a pretty useless section for now...


----------



## phantom23

Changing the background won't improve visibility for sure. I think it's a bad idea.


Sponsor said:


> with an improvment - red colour added. The sign is clear and easy to get, so where is problem? :dunno:


It's not about the colour. Problem is, some people here think that those signs are not necessary. But unlike US or Denmark, it's an experinment here and signs are necessary to show drivers how to use this lane.


----------



## mcarling

phantom23 said:


> Changing the background won't improve visibility for sure.


Increasing contrast increases readability.


----------



## rakcancer

PLH said:


> Speaking of which, some changes in road sign layout are planned. For example warning signs will get a white backgroung instead of yellow


Really, that is a plan? Correct me if I am wrong, the whole idea behind yellow background signs is to be more visible in snowy winter. This is maybe unique in our part of Europe but it make sense. Every winter in Poland is snowy so why do we have to follow others (most probably Germany) in this case? Changing these signs is just unnecessary cost in my opinion


----------



## Sponsor

We know nothing for sure. Let's wait a couple of days.


----------



## metacatfry

I'm sure the sign in this instance is necessary, since the situation is nonstandard, I just think it is a bad idea to introduce nonstandard situations in general. If this is a limited experiment to test viability, fine.
And if authorities decide it works, then by all means, introduce it as a standard way to construct turns, wherever it will work better than the alternatives. And then make sure to teach proper usage to new drivers.
Putting up the signs is a necessary evil. I accept they are necessary for drivers who haven't been taught. But there are costs to putting up signs about everything. Drivers only have a limited amount of attention for signs when driving along, and there is a hierarchy of importance in signs. Any sign lower in the hierarchy take away attention from signs higher up.
Bigger numbers of signs also add to the confusion of drivers. The capability of the driving population spans a wide spectrum and those towards the bottom will start to do more stupid shit the more confused they are.


----------



## Lankosher

According to GDDKiA, 85 km of A1 Łódź - Kowal has just been opened for traffic :cheers:

http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/11709/Z-Lodzi-na-Kujawy-autostrada-A-1


----------



## mcarling

igorlan said:


> According to GDDKiA, 85 km of A1 Łódź - Kowal has just been opened for traffic


Wow! Cool! Bevakasha!

I guess that means we can look forward to seeing an updated map soon.


----------



## Lankosher

mcarling said:


> Wow! Cool! Bevakasha!
> 
> I guess that means we can look forward to seeing an updated map soon.


Todah rabah

We're all awaiting fresh pics from newly opened A1


----------



## ChrisZwolle

mcarling said:


> I guess that means we can look forward to seeing an updated map soon.


http://i.imgur.com/uEl7A.png


----------



## Lankosher

^^

Isn't she beautiful? getting more and more mature


----------



## mcarling

Why is a large section of the S8 between Wroclaw and Lodz shown in grey rather than in red?


----------



## Haveblue

yeah, I also spotted missing bits on this picture, namely Lublin's northern circular ... and couple of other streches of S7 ... north of Warsaw to Gdansk ...

Chris, you seem to have digged out very old revision of Polish roads and motorways.


----------



## PLH

S8's missing.


----------



## katsuma

From what I can see, the first post in this thread seems to show updated maps.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/NowaMapaStan.svg

...and the large one: http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/nowa-mapa.png


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Better?


----------



## Lankosher

Significantly


----------



## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> Better?


Yes, but still significant deficiencies compared to the one linked to just above.


----------



## keokiracer

Does anyone know if all the exits on the new stretch opened too?


----------



## kamilbuk

That's nice. Till 2020 we should have a consistent highway network between main cities, with a perspective for further development. Cannot wait to see the map above filled up.


----------



## PLH

keokiracer said:


> Does anyone know if all the exits on the new stretch opened too?


As a matter of fact it turned out that A1 won't open until Monday or even Tuesday. Someone made the news release too soon by mistake.


----------



## ufonut

S79 in Warsaw by *koszatek* 























































More here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=639909&page=493


----------



## masages21

Definitely rent a car!

Theoreticly you've got all the train time-tables and schemes but it just doesn't work... They just exist..somewhere


----------



## ufonut

A1 Strykow-Kowal by *CornBluenBlau*


















































































More here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=389562&page=326


----------



## ufonut

masages21 said:


> Definitely rent a car!
> 
> Theoreticly you've got all the train time-tables and schemes but it just doesn't work... They just exist..somewhere


What doesn't work ?


----------



## toonczyk

masages21 said:


> Definitely rent a car!
> 
> Theoreticly you've got all the train time-tables and schemes but it just doesn't work... They just exist..somewhere


Public transportation definitely does work and is quite effective. Using a car is a viable option too, it's more comfortable, but also more expensive.


----------



## ufonut

S12/17/19 by *GDDKiA*



hook1990 said:


> Więc jedziemy:
> 
> Węzeł Sielce od Warszawy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Węzeł Sielce od Puław
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WD3 od południa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MS4 i MD4a
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pojezierze Kurowskie, czyli siódmy kilometr trasy





hook1990 said:


> MS5 na rzece Białce
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Węzeł Kurów (WD6) od południa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PG7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MOP Markuszów Północ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WD9





hook1990 said:


> WS11 - Węzeł Przybysławice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WD12
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WD13 z bazą Moty w tle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MS14, rzeka Kurówka i wieś Karolin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WS15, DW828 i nowy dojazd do wsi Karolin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Wszystkie zdjęcia pochodzą z witryny gddkia.gov.pl*
> 
> Dziękujemy za świetne ujęcia!


----------



## ufonut

A4 Szarow-Tarnow by *Zod75*




























More here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=992981&page=405


----------



## Hellmut

Blackraven said:


> Just a random thought:
> 
> Is Poland considered a car country or one where trains and public transport dominate?


Just like in most European countries, cars are the most popular transport method and you can see this here (lot of road investments). Public transport is most important in big cities like Warsaw, Kraków, Gdansk, where is well developed. Big events (like concerts or football matches) also rely mainly on public transport. Do not forget about bikes - utility cycling is minority in Poland, but lately the popularity is growing.


> Should I take trains and use public transport if and whenever I'm in Poland......or should I rent a car?


If you plan to stay mainly in big cities (with some occasional trips to other ones), there's no need to rent a car. Public transport is quite efficient, you can also rent a bike.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Hellmut said:


> Do not forget about bikes - utility cycling is minority in Poland, but lately the popularity is growing.


Infrastruktura rowerowa 

I noticed the Polish bicycle infrastructure designers took a lot of Dutch elements.


----------



## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> I noticed the Polish bicycle infrastructure designers took a lot of Dutch elements.


I wish... Dutch cycling infrastructure is considered a benchmark and an example to follow, but unfortunately we're still centuries behind you.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's hard to fit good bicycle infrastructure within existing urban environments. The Netherlands planned bicycle infrastructure in all post-1960 neighborhoods. In fact, bicycling in the Netherlands is much better in the suburban areas than it is around the city center where there was no space for detached bicycle routes. Poland has to deal with this issue quite a lot. I think it only works to the maximum potential if all urban expansions are carefully planned. So far I've seen a lot of new urban expansions in Poland, but it's rather fragmented (just look around Gdańsk or Warszawa).


----------



## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's hard to fit good bicycle infrastructure within existing urban environments.


Obviously, but even in new road projects in Poland cyclists' needs are often overlooked or the infrastructure for bicycles is squeezed in in the last second and is of low quality. Bikeways are narrow and have sharp turns, they swing from one side of the road to the other, ramps are very steep etc. One example is S79 in Warsaw posted on the previous page. This short piece of road between Marynarska and Puławska (along S2) cost us over 250 million EUR, but nobody thought of cyclists and there is no bikeway or a bike lane along Marynarska street.


----------



## masages21

Toonczyk

Do you know if there is a cycling road near the lazurowa-gorczewska ( S8 ) interchange?


----------



## toonczyk

^^ Well, kind of. There are bits of a bikeway along Lazurowa, but those are useless right now, because they end abruptly and aren't connected with anything. There will be a longer piece of a bikeway along Górczewska once the construction of Lazurowa/Górczewska junction ends.


----------



## masages21

When is it gonna end?


----------



## toonczyk

AFAIK they were supposed to end it in August, I don't know what's the new deadline.


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

Depends on the place. Bigger cities have well developed public transport. Outside main cities car is the king.


----------



## Rusonaldo

New A1 in Poland


----------



## rav00

Jakub Warszauer said:


> Depends on the place. Bigger cities have well developed public transport. Outside main cities car is the king.


And on long distances, trains are at best as quick as cars/coaches; usually slower.


----------



## asahi

Rusonaldo said:


> New A1 in Poland


Great video and great motorway. Finally, I should say :cheers:

The only thing that annoys me are those bloody noise barriers...hno:


----------



## Rombi

asahi said:


> Great video and great motorway. Finally, I should say :cheers:
> 
> The only thing that annoys me are those bloody noise barriers...hno:


Just hope that there will come a day we gonna rid off this shit...


----------



## dual-core power

Rusonaldo said:


> New A1 in Poland


Are there no Viatolls yet?


----------



## Luki_SL

^^Yes, motorway A1 Kowal - Stryków is toll free


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Will A1 remain toll free?


----------



## Luki_SL

^^I think A1 become toll road when Toruń-Kowal section will be finished.


----------



## ufonut

So what's left to be opened this year ?

S8 to Sycow 
S8 around Mszczonow
A4 Krakow-Szarow 
A4 immediately before Rzeszow (?)
A1 to Czech border

Anything else ?


----------



## Strzala

ufonut said:


> So what's left to be opened this year ?
> 
> S8 to Sycow
> S8 around Mszczonow
> A4 Krakow-Szarow
> A4 immediately before Rzeszow (?)
> 
> Anything else ?


A4 Kraków-Szarów was opened in 29.09.2009.

It's chance to open A4 Szarów -Tarnów this year.


----------



## toonczyk

ufonut said:


> So what's left to be opened this year ?


A1 Mszana - border
A4 Szarów - Tarnów
A6 in Szczecin (2km)
S8 Oleśnica - Syców
S8 Radziejowice - Adamowice

I think that's it.


----------



## Baxon79

ufonut said:


> So what's left to be opened this year ?
> 
> 
> A4 immediately before Rzeszow (?)


A4 Szarów-Tarnów - till end of the year with half profile between Brzesko-Tarnów Zachód junction (Tarnów West).

Section Tarnów - Dębica has about 1,5 year delay, so will be no continuation to Rzeszów in this year.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

toonczyk said:


> I think that's it.


That's more than Belgium opened in the last 15 years. :lol:


----------



## toonczyk

2012 will have been a great year, we hoped for a lot more, but still - over 600km of new A/S roads isn't bad.


----------



## metacatfry

The authors of the famous and wonderful map seems to think there could also be a chance this year for A4 between, I guess, Przeworsk and Radymno. Can any of you guys clarify yea or nay?
According to the map it could look like a unfortunate situation where the DK4/A4 interchange at Przeworsk belongs to a much delayed section, and in that case the otherwise ready section cannot be opened?


----------



## mcarling

^^
The map clearly indicates that DK4/A4 interchange as part of the contract, completion of which is delayed to August 2014. However, that does not necessarily mean that a connection cannot be established. The eastbound direction would obviously be easier than the westbound direction. Westbound traffic might have to exit the A4 at the DW880 intersection.

Unfortunately, both Apple Maps and Google Maps have no recent images which might provide a clue.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ufonut said:


> The ministry of infrastructure will release its road investment priority list for 2014-2020 on *November 15th*.


Any news?


----------



## ufonut

ChrisZwolle said:


> Any news?


Nothing yet. I read somewhere that the ministry will disclose future plans "before the end of the year". We may have to wait few more weeks.

So far we know that the priorities will be S7, S8, A1, S3 and maybe S5, S17.


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Any news?


No way, the whole Polish media world got mad about the first Dreamliner delivery for LOT. 
:nuts:
Probably the whole government took day off. In fact I'm surprised they didn't announce one day public holiday for that reason


----------



## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> Any news?


I have no clue what the source of this news was. I don't think we should expect to hear anything substantial as long as EU 2014-2020 budget negotiations aren't finalized... I guess they could release a "priority list", but that's meaningless until financing is secured.


----------



## Surel

toonczyk said:


> I have no clue what the source of this news was. I don't think we should expect to hear anything substantial as long as EU 2014-2020 budget negotiations aren't finalized... I guess they could release a "priority list", but that's meaningless until financing is secured.


How were the invesments financed. I am talking about cash flows. Most of the finance are from EU funds I understand, but those come just after the construction is finished. Thus in the meantime there is need for temporally financing. Was it done from the state budget or via bonds or loans?

Also, since many projects were finished this year, the EU money should be flowing in right now. Are they used for possible repayments of the bridging financing (if there was such) or are those money staying with the budget, ready to be used on new projects?


----------



## Chris80678

A1 Mszana - border
*A4 Szarów - Tarnów*
A6 in Szczecin (2km)

S8 Oleśnica - Syców
S8 Radziejowice - Adamowice

I look forward to seeing when we have openings dates for these roads. From the look of the photos on the website of the companies constructing the A4 between Szarów and Tarnów I am very doubtful about it opening to traffic before the end of this year


----------



## Strzala

ufonut said:


> Nothing yet. I read somewhere that the ministry will disclose future plans "before the end of the year". We may have to wait few more weeks.
> 
> So far we know that the priorities will be S7, S8, A1, S3 and maybe S5, S17.


+ S19 Lublin - Rzeszów [A4]


----------



## toonczyk

Surel said:


> Was it done from the state budget or via bonds or loans?


Mostly bonds (issued by a special national road fund called KFD), some loans from EIB, the rest was covered by the state budget and collected tolls. EU is refunding finished projects, for example in October we got back 1,9bln PLN. So far reimbursements for 2007-2013 perspective exceeded 25 bln PLN. Altogether GDDKiA should get reimbursed for ~10,4 bln EUR. This money is used to redeem KFD bonds.


Chris80678 said:


> I look forward to seeing when we have openings dates for these roads. From the look of the photos on the website of the companies constructing the A4 between Szarów and Tarnów I am very doubtful about it opening to traffic before the end of this year


I employ a "wait and see" tactic, we've seen some miracles this year (on A2 and A1), so I'd be careful judging what's possible and what isn't. I guess it all depends on the weather now.


----------



## mr.cool

Well I don't know how people couldn't manage to find this but it only took me 2 minutes! 

http://www.wbj.pl/article-61009-8364739-billion-for-poland-in-van-rompuy-compromise-budget.html?typ=pam

It's not official but I think it's quite likely to say Poland will receive around 74 billion euros for 2014-2020, how much did Poland receive in the last years. Was it around 80 billion I think? If this is true are all roads likely to be built from what people have been suggesting?


----------



## toonczyk

mr.cool said:


> It's not official but I think it's quite likely to say Poland will receive around 74 billion euros for 2014-2020


It's just one of many proposals on the table, the negotiations will take weeks, if not months, so I wouldn't get used to any numbers floating around. We're hoping for something like 80 billion EUR, but you have to remember only part of that sum will be used for infrastructure. And only part of the sum for infrastructure will be used on roads. And only part of the sum for roads will be used on national roads (A/S). So while Poland will most likely hugely benefit from the next EU budget, only a fraction of those funds will be used on motorways and expressways.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*S17 Lublin - Piaski*

According to these photos, at least a 7 - 8 kilometer section of S17 is already opened to traffic.

http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/8756/...i-zadanie-nr-5-wezel-witosa---obwodnica-piask

When did they open this? I know it's the reconstruction of an existing road, so it's hard to indicate when it opened exactly, especially if stuff like interchanges aren't completed yet...


----------



## Surel

toonczyk said:


> Mostly bonds (issued by a special national road fund called KFD), some loans from EIB, the rest was covered by the state budget and collected tolls. EU is refunding finished projects, for example in October we got back 1,9bln PLN. So far reimbursements for 2007-2013 perspective exceeded 25 bln PLN. Altogether GDDKiA should get reimbursed for ~10,4 bln EUR. This money is used to redeem KFD bonds.


TY. It seems to be so much better managed in PL than in CZ.


----------



## Janek0

Luki_SL said:


> ^^I think A1 become toll road when Toruń-Kowal section will be finished.


You mean tolls for light vehicles, viaTOLL for Kotliska-Stryków section is already scheduled to start on 12th January 2013.


----------



## mcarling

Surel said:


> It seems to be so much better managed in PL than in CZ.


Poland is fortunate to have one of the least badly run governments in the EU now. Highway development, while far from perfect in Poland, is a good example of how much worse government is managed elsewhere. If this can continue through the 2014-2020 EU budget cycle, the Polish road network will be in good shape.


----------



## michael_siberia

@ Chris
Speed on this section is still limited to 50 km/h.



> how much did Poland receive in the last years


Poland will receive € 67 billion in years 2007-13 in total.


----------



## Strzala

ChrisZwolle said:


> According to these photos, at least a 7 - 8 kilometer section of S17 is already opened to traffic.
> 
> http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/8756/...i-zadanie-nr-5-wezel-witosa---obwodnica-piask
> 
> When did they open this? I know it's the reconstruction of an existing road, so it's hard to indicate when it opened exactly, especially if stuff like interchanges aren't completed yet...


All lanes were opened to traffic at the beginning of november:







But the road it's still not ended for official opening, as You can see on the film they have to install sreens, crash barriers etc.

Official opening of this section is planed on half of december.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What are the reasons for the numerous delays in recent Polish road projects? Were they all contractors who went bankrupt?

The way I see it, some deadlines were too ambitious. While constructing a new motorway in 2 - 2.5 years is not impossible, it requires more funding (more expensive working shifts). 

Especially projects like A4 in eastern Poland, S2 Warszawa, S79 Warszawa, A1 south of Torun and the S69 south of Bielsko-Biala were delayed substantially. Construction time of A4 rose from 2 to almost 4 years at some segments. 

On the other hand, other large projects appear to be going according to schedule, like S3, S8 and S17.


----------



## toonczyk

^^ Vast majority of delays are related to "external" problems - discovering unknown infrastructure underground (cables, pipes), difficulties with land acquisition (residents protesting), unexpected levels of groundwater (for example in some places around Warsaw those have risen by almost a meter within last 2 years) etc. Obviously sometimes delays are caused by contractors not engaging enough people and equipment, but usually they have pretty good excuses - one bridge that's on a critical path for the whole road is delayed, so they don't have to work as fast on the rest of the contract.


----------



## rakcancer

The whole tender system in Poland is directed towards one target: to pay as little money as possible. Practically the only criteria (over %90) deciding who is a winner is a price. Not really matters how much experienced or how big is a company winning a bid. Most spectacular example of that was Covec - Chinese company responsible for not finishing some of the sections of A2 between Lodz and Warsaw. There is a plenty of more samples of smaller scale. Now we have the same problem with railway projects. Already couple of big projects has been stopped because of the bankruptcy of companies in charge of projects. I think it is a time to review the whole tender system and put less importance on the price only and put ahead experience and the size of companies too.


----------



## ufonut

ChrisZwolle said:


> What are the reasons for the numerous delays in recent Polish road projects? Were they all contractors who went bankrupt?
> 
> The way I see it, some deadlines were too ambitious. While constructing a new motorway in 2 - 2.5 years is not impossible, it requires more funding (more expensive working shifts).
> 
> Especially projects like A4 in eastern Poland, S2 Warszawa, S79 Warszawa, A1 south of Torun and the S69 south of Bielsko-Biala were delayed substantially. Construction time of A4 rose from 2 to almost 4 years at some segments.
> 
> On the other hand, other large projects appear to be going according to schedule, like S3, S8 and S17.


2-2.5 years is possible in Poland, it has been done - usually 2,3 or even 4 shifts are employed so work can continue 24/7. It's not uncommon to see people in Poland building highways at 2 AM on Sunday during a holiday 

One must consider several factors (beside the ones mentioned by toonczyk):

1. Oftentimes work (especially preparatory) can only be performed during certain months of a year - there are many environmental constraints (bird nesting, animal migration, mammals, plants etc) that essentially prevent crews from working.

2. Large scale archeological digs that happen all along major road investments. When interesting things get found sometimes these digs are expanded to cover more ground or go deeper to penetrate further in the soil. It takes time and in such instances even archeologists themselves cant put an end date on their digs. 

3. Just like archeologists bomb squads are tasked with clearing land of unexploded bombs or some other ordinances. That's usually done in areas known to have been places of conflict in the past.

4. Winter season.


----------



## toonczyk

rakcancer said:


> The whole tender system in Poland is directed towards one target: to pay as little money as possible. Practically the only criteria (over %90) deciding who is a winner is a price.


What other criteria would you have them use? We're dealing with public money here, so I'm glad GDDKiA is doing everything in their power to spend as little money as possible. That doesn't mean quality has to suffer, because even if the cheapest offer wins, the contractors are still required to meet the quality level they agreed upon. This is why GDDKiA invested in laboratories and specialists that visit all constructions sites and test quality all the time. There have been some quality issues on roads built by GDDKiA in recent years, but all of them have been detected during construction and had to be fixed "for free" by the contractors.


rakcancer said:


> Not really matters how much experienced or how big is a company winning a bid. Most spectacular example of that was Covec - Chinese company responsible for not finishing some of the sections of A2 between Lodz and Warsaw.


Any company (or consortium) participating in GDDKiA's tenders has to prove they have sufficient know-how, resources and experience. COVEC has been thoroughly screened before being allowed to take part in this tender, there has been no doubt about their ability to do this (it's been confirmed for example by an audit performed by NIK - Polish Supreme Audit Office). They undervalued construction costs, they had little experience with Polish bureaucratic processes and they must have realized it would be difficult for GDDKiA to execute any contractual penalties from Bank of China, so they just abandoned this contract. But if you think they didn't finish it because it's too small a small company with limited resources or they didn't have enough experience building roads, then you clearly don't know anything about this company.

Still I think it's better to have more competition on the market, even if in some cases this means we get unpleasant surprises like with COVEC. Before 2008, there had been something like 7-8 companies that were competing for motorway contracts in Poland. Now there are at least 30, as a result of this competition construction hosts have drastically dropped. In the infamous tender for S8 Konotopa-Powązkowska, only two large consortia (all big players distributed between them) made their offers, as a result this stretch of road cost 206 million PLN per 1km. Sometimes I wonder how much it would have cost if there were 40 companies among 15-20 consortia participating, instead of 6 in 2 consortia.


----------



## mcarling

toonczyk said:


> In the infamous tender for S8 Konotopa-Powązkowska, only two large consortia (all big players distributed between them) made their offers, as a result this stretch of road cost 206 million PLN per 1km. Sometimes I wonder how much it would have cost if there were 40 companies among 15-20 consortia participating instead of 6 in 2 consortia.


This is called collusion. It might be a good idea to disqualify consortia from bidding.


----------



## toonczyk

There actually was some criminal investigation surrounding this tender, there were rumors about chairman of Strabag in Poland being detained for questioning, but I don't think they actually managed to prove anything to anyone (yet?).


----------



## kamilost

rakcancer said:


> I think it is a time to review the whole tender system


The latest (07.21.12) change that was introduced to improve the public procurement law in Poland was the ability to exclude a company from contract award procedures (http://www.uzp.gov.pl/cmsws/page/?D;2171 Public Procurement Law - consolidated text). So GDDKIA did in Grota bridge (S8 Powązkowska - Marki) tendering. It excluded NDI and Alpinie Bau on the basis of article 24.1.1.a PPL:


> 1. Excluded from contract award procedures shall be:
> 1a) economic operators with whom the given awarding entity has cancelled or terminated a contract or withdrawn therefrom due to circumstances for which the responsibility is beared by the economic operator, if the cancelation or termination of a contract or withdrawal therefrom occurred within 3 years prior to the commencement of contract award procedure, and the value of non-performed procurement amounted at least to 5% of the contract value.


The companies appealed against the decision and won. The verdict was, that GDDKIA had to reevaluate their requests to participate in the procedure, because "contractor's unreliability is not equal to its lack of professionalism" ("niesolidność wykonawcy nie jest tożsama z brakiem jego profesjonalizmu zawodowego" - http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/11700...Mostu-Grota-w-Warszawie-ponownie-rozpatrywane).

The verdict doesn't make the article a dead letter yet, but is still worrisome.


----------



## Surel

toonczyk said:


> What other criteria would you have them use? We're dealing with public money here, so I'm glad GDDKiA is doing everything in their power to spend as little money as possible. That doesn't mean quality has to suffer, because even if the cheapest offer wins, the contractors are still required to meet the quality level they agreed upon. This is why GDDKiA invested in laboratories and specialists that visit all constructions sites and test quality all the time. There have been some quality issues on roads built by GDDKiA in recent years, but all of them have been detected during construction and had to be fixed "for free" by the contractors.
> 
> Any company (or consortium) participating in GDDKiA's tenders has to prove they have sufficient know-how, resources and experience. COVEC has been thoroughly screened before being allowed to take part in this tender, there has been no doubt about their ability to do this (it's been confirmed for example by an audit performed by NIK - Polish Supreme Audit Office). They undervalued construction costs, they had little experience with Polish bureaucratic processes and they must have realized it would be difficult for GDDKiA to execute any contractual penalties from Bank of China, so they just abandoned this contract. But if you think they didn't finish it because it's too small a small company with limited resources or they didn't have enough experience building roads, then you clearly don't know anything about this company.
> 
> Still I think it's better to have more competition on the market, even if in some cases this means we get unpleasant surprises like with COVEC. Before 2008, there had been something like 7-8 companies that were competing for motorway contracts in Poland. Now there are at least 30, as a result of this competition construction hosts have drastically dropped. In the infamous tender for S8 Konotopa-Powązkowska, only two large consortia (all big players distributed between them) made their offers, as a result this stretch of road cost 206 million PLN per 1km. Sometimes I wonder how much it would have cost if there were 40 companies among 15-20 consortia participating, instead of 6 in 2 consortia.


Very nice summary. Thats the way it is supposed to be. The only major imporovement I see could be public auctioning instead of just offers.


----------



## rakcancer

toonczyk said:


> What other criteria would you have them use? We're dealing with public money here, so I'm glad GDDKiA is doing everything in their power to spend as little money as possible. That doesn't mean quality has to suffer, because even if the cheapest offer wins, the contractors are still required to meet the quality level they agreed upon. This is why GDDKiA invested in laboratories and specialists that visit all constructions sites and test quality all the time. There have been some quality issues on roads built by GDDKiA in recent years, but all of them have been detected during construction and had to be fixed "for free" by the contractors.
> 
> Any company (or consortium) participating in GDDKiA's tenders has to prove they have sufficient know-how, resources and experience. COVEC has been thoroughly screened before being allowed to take part in this tender, there has been no doubt about their ability to do this (it's been confirmed for example by an audit performed by NIK - Polish Supreme Audit Office). They undervalued construction costs, they had little experience with Polish bureaucratic processes and they must have realized it would be difficult for GDDKiA to execute any contractual penalties from Bank of China, so they just abandoned this contract. But if you think they didn't finish it because it's too small a small company with limited resources or they didn't have enough experience building roads, then you clearly don't know anything about this company.


First of all screening companies BEFORE let them even participate in tendering is most important in my opinion. In some countries like Germany or USA companies without necessary experiences or just too small are not allowed to large contracts.
Secondly that is right that GDDKiA invested money in laboratories and they control and screen companies during construction. They do a good job here. 
My whole point is that our law is badly made and is directed toward as little spending money as possible. The regulations should be changed and I think this is more in hands either of Parliament or Government not GDDKiA.


----------



## rakcancer

toonczyk said:


> Any company (or consortium) participating in GDDKiA's tenders has to prove they have sufficient know-how, resources and experience. COVEC has been thoroughly screened before being allowed to take part in this tender, there has been no doubt about their ability to do this (it's been confirmed for example by an audit performed by NIK - Polish Supreme Audit Office). They undervalued construction costs, they had little experience with Polish bureaucratic processes and they must have realized it would be difficult for GDDKiA to execute any contractual penalties from Bank of China, so they just abandoned this contract. But if you think they didn't finish it because it's too small a small company with limited resources or they didn't have enough experience building roads, then you clearly don't know anything about this company.
> .


How about instead of making things so complicated in screening just make them not allowed in large contracts if they have never done any job in Poland? COVEC is a very good example of as you said yourself little or no experience with polish/european realities even if they have sufficient money. The whole "screening" in this case doesn't even make a sense. They shouldn't be in Poland with large contracts at all until they prove they have experience with smaller projects.


----------



## metacatfry

Maybe tightening up requirements should be done, but it is worth remembering that the market for construction companies is not normal these years. The global economic slowdown has meant much less work for them and there is a bigger desperation and willingness to cut profits in order to get contracts. At some point in the future, the situation will change, much fewer bidders will bid for contracts, and road authorities will WANT to have as many companies bidding against each other as possible to drive the price down. Setting too strict bidding requirements might drive away too many contractors, leaving only a few who can more readily dictate their price and driving up the price of building roads.
So it is a balance act.


----------



## toonczyk

rakcancer said:


> First of all screening companies BEFORE let them even participate in tendering is most important in my opinion. In some countries like Germany or USA companies without necessary experiences or just too small are not allowed to large contracts.


It works the same way in GDDKiA's tenders - you have to prove you are experienced enough and have enough resources when you make an offer, then they screen your offer and reject it if you don't meet their requirements.


rakcancer said:


> My whole point is that our law is badly made and is directed toward as little spending money as possible.


I'm asking again - how is that bad? This argument is raised all the time, our law is broken, yadi yadi yada, but when asked how to make it better, nobody has any constructive proposals. I think things are good the way they are. Even despite some companies going bankrupt due to global crisis, we're still making amazing progress and abandoned contracts are just a small fraction of all motorway/expressway projects in Poland.


rakcancer said:


> How about instead of making things so complicated in screening just make them not allowed in large contracts if they have never done any job in Poland?


This is very discriminatory and limits competition, which is never good.


rakcancer said:


> COVEC is a very good example of as you said yourself little or no experience with polish/european realities even if they have sufficient money. The whole "screening" in this case doesn't even make a sense. They shouldn't be in Poland with large contracts at all until they prove they have experience with smaller projects.


First of all, they did prove themselves doing smaller project in Poland before (they built some apartment buildings and a hotel or something). Second, they had no experience in EU building motorways as a company, but they hired very experienced people and had top notch management staff, who have worked on many motorways projects in Poland before. Again, they were more than capable of building A2. If you want to disprove this thesis, go read NIK's audit and find any holes in it.


----------



## and802

toonczyk is right. I second that. the law is not bad. companies need to play according to law rules. not to play they own rules. is it easy ? maybe not. doable ? definately yes. so let us not try to create new rules. lets make vendors understand present rules and execute this.


----------



## rakcancer

toonczyk said:


> First of all, they did prove themselves doing smaller project in Poland before (they built some apartment buildings and a hotel or something). Second, they had no experience in EU building motorways as a company, but they hired very experienced people and had top notch management staff, who have worked on many motorways projects in Poland before. Again, they were more than capable of building A2. If you want to disprove this thesis, go read NIK's audit and find any holes in it.


So wait a minute, you saying they had experiences, resources, sufficient money, they knew polish market basically they were "more then capable of building A2", yet they failed... how come? This is what you just said in your previous post:



toonczyk said:


> Any company (or consortium) participating in GDDKiA's tenders has to prove they have sufficient know-how, resources and experience. COVEC has been thoroughly screened before being allowed to take part in this tender, there has been no doubt about their ability to do this (it's been confirmed for example by an audit performed by NIK - Polish Supreme Audit Office). *They undervalued construction costs, they had little experience with Polish bureaucratic processes *and they must have realized it would be difficult for GDDKiA to execute any contractual penalties from Bank of China, so they just abandoned this contract.


Look, there is no doubt the things in Poland are going in the right direction. On the other hand whoever is saying everything is perfect and no need to change anything is simply wrong. I am not a specialist in this area but I work abroad with large scale projects and I can only simply compare and point out what others do, what could be improved, what could be copied from other countries, what not. In my opinion regulations should be adjusted after so many companies got into bankruptcy and some projects are postponed or slowed down. The whole global economical situation is not the only one to be blame for it.


----------



## toonczyk

rakcancer said:


> yet they failed... how come? This is what you jast said in your previous post


They were in a unique situation where they could just pull back, because even if they are finally forced to pay the penalties, that still doesn't mean much for a company this large. They abandoned A2 because they could afford it. They tried getting into tight EU market, they've made a mistake, so they gave up. Not that such mistakes are unheard of among giants like Strabag or Alpine Bau... Undervaluing contracts is very common, actually many companies had negative profit margins on contracts signed in 2010 and 2011, because that was the only way for them to avoid layoffs (and there were almost no other contracts in EU). We were very lucky that we had this huge surge of investments in the middle of the biggest crisis EU has ever faced, as a result we got new infrastructure for half the price. Things like delays on A2 (which still weren't critical, I'd like to remind you this motorway has been ready since June) or SRB abandoning A1 were inevitable.


rakcancer said:


> Look, there is no doubt the things in Poland are going in the right direction. On the other hand whoever is saying everything is perfect and no need to change anything is simply wrong.


I'm not saying things are perfect, but I'm still waiting to hear any good ideas how to make things better.


rakcancer said:


> In my opinion regulations should be adjusted after so many companies got into bankruptcy and some projects are postponed or slowed down.


Adjusted how? Maybe it should be like that: whenever a company makes a mistake and undervalues a project, GDDKiA will pay them as much as they want with no questions asked. After all, we don't want anybody to go bankrupt because of their incompetence, right?


----------



## and802

rakcancer,

thee law is ok. there are some companies which took a risk and failed. as easy as it is. I would say the companies which went bankrupt (or are close to bankrupcy) were not smart.
I would say very controversial opinion: cover was smart. they realized quite quilcy they could not manage the contract with the promised money. they simply stepped back immediately. did not want to last it longer (longer = more expenses).



now take the polish company example close to bankrupcy - they have not canceled the contract - the expenses are definately higher, but money gratification stays the same. 

which company is smarter ? what is more - I can see the sections of A2 won by Covec are now finished. so gddkia should be happy. and Poles are happy too - we have a motorway !

now how about the section of this polish company which is close to bankrupcy ? the section is not finished, definaately more delays, and serious risk sooner or later (probably later) they will surrender or collapse. 

the result for Poles ? no vendor, not finished section.


----------



## michael_siberia

MA-532 Dębica Edition:



Abdul666 said:


> efekt sprężania:


hno:


----------



## geogregor

toonczyk said:


> Even despite some companies going bankrupt due to global crisis, we're still making amazing progress and abandoned contracts are just a small fraction of all motorway/expressway projects in Poland.



Depends what we understand as a fraction. So far only fraction of the A4 east of Krakow is open. 
Just to remind those who are unaware, it is one of the motorways to be opened before Euro 2012. At the moment some stretches look like they *might* open in 2014.
Of course it is the easiest to blame crisis for that. Our road authority does perfect job there and any criticism of it is just defending bad boys from the construction business hno:


----------



## Urbanista1

from what I understand another 84 kms of A4 might open this year: Szarow-Tarnow - 57 kms; and Jaroslaw - Radymno - 27 kms. so about 40% of remainder.


----------



## geogregor

Urbanista1 said:


> from what I understand another 84 kms of A4 might open this year: Szarow-Tarnow - 57 kms; and Jaroslaw - Radymno - 27 kms. so about 40% of remainder.


Some of it might, some of it only half-profile, all good few months late and still more than 50% is nowhere near of completion. Hardly a fraction.
Then we have A1 problems (south of Torun as well as the famous MA532). A1 east of Lodz not even started etc. 
I can see a string of pure success and good project management.
Definitely no need to change anything at all.


----------



## toonczyk

geogregor said:


> Depends what we understand as a fraction. So far only fraction of the A4 east of Krakow is open.


Read my quote again, I wasn't talking about delays, but about abandoned contracts. I'll make it easier for you: since 2007, contracts for over 2000km of A/S roads have been signed. Contracts for how many kilometers have been terminated?


----------



## Urbanista1

geogregor said:


> Some of it might, some of it only half-profile, all good few months late and still more than 50% is nowhere near of completion. Hardly a fraction.
> Then we have A1 problems (south of Torun as well as the famous MA532). A1 east of Lodz not even started etc.
> I can see a string of pure success and good project management.
> Definitely no need to change anything at all.


I can’t think of many infrastructure projects in England where you live or in Canada where I am of this scale that ever came in on time or even on budget in my life time. The sections cited will be complete when opened this year, not partially based on my readings in Polish sec tion. ofcourse there is always room for improvement. when you try to build so much so fast, many unforeseen problems can arise, topographical, economic, political etc. Don't forget under the former Kaczynski regime almost nothing was done even on the planning level for years.


----------



## geogregor

Urbanista1 said:


> I can’t think of many infrastructure projects in England where you live or in Canada where I am of this scale that ever came in on time or even on budget in my life time. The sections cited will be complete when opened this year, not partially based on my readings in Polish sec tion. ofcourse there is always room for improvement. when you try to build so much so fast, many unforeseen problems can arise, topographical, economic, political etc. Don't forget under the former Kaczynski regime almost nothing was done even on the planning level for years.


That's almost exactly what I'm saying. I'm really not one of those who only complain. I'm glad we have a large scale road building in Poland at the moment. I also know that some problems are bound to arise.
But some people on Polish forum have tendency to glorify Polish Road Authority saying how great job they do and that the only fault of delays and abandoned projects is on the contractors side. World is never so simple. Geological background checks are often flawed, some plots of lands are not acquired by the Road Authority before construction starts, some bridge designs are "questionable" etc. Calculations of risk in such conditions are much harder.

I know that road projects are delayed everywhere but our A4 is particularly unlucky and on some sections there is no sight of light at the end of tunnel.

There is not much of the road building in the UK at the moment so it is hard to compare. But those few schemes they had came largely on time. They just seems to assume more realistic schedules (longer) Maybe that's better solution than frustrate people with unrealistic promises?


----------



## mcarling

Let's keep in mind that any changes in the tendering process must comply with the EU Public Procurement Directive. Proposing changes that would be prohibited by EU law will get us nowhere.


----------



## rakcancer

geogregor said:


> But some people on Polish forum have tendency to glorify Polish Road Authority saying how great job they do and that the only fault of delays and abandoned projects is on the contractors side. World is never so simple.


You are right here. Things sometimes look different from outside. Not everything is shining, not everything is right even if overall the things go in the right direction. Unfortunately some people have tendency to defend their opinion at any cost and take any even slightest critique pretty badly...


----------



## Urbanista1

geogregor said:


> That's almost exactly what I'm saying. I'm really not one of those who only complain. I'm glad we have a large scale road building in Poland at the moment. I also know that some problems are bound to arise.
> But some people on Polish forum have tendency to glorify Polish Road Authority saying how great job they do and that the only fault of delays and abandoned projects is on the contractors side. World is never so simple. Geological background checks are often flawed, some plots of lands are not acquired by the Road Authority before construction starts, some bridge designs are "questionable" etc. Calculations of risk in such conditions are much harder.
> 
> I know that road projects are delayed everywhere but our A4 is particularly unlucky and on some sections there is no sight of light at the end of tunnel.
> 
> There is not much of the road building in the UK at the moment so it is hard to compare. But those few schemes they had came largely on time. They just seems to assume more realistic schedules (longer) Maybe that's better solution than frustrate people with unrealistic promises?


yes, I agree in large part, but realistic schedules are a luxury for wealthy countries like UK that have not been set back in their development for half a century. The Polish road authority is under tremendous pressure and faces constraints UK does not and in this light is doing an amazing job. Poland has to have infrastructure in very quickly to open up more backward areas of Poland for development, to provide jobs and spur economic development overall, and forestall continued demographic decline.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Poland opened more motorways this year than Germany ever did except in 1936-1938. It's a huge achievement. You can't build a whole network in a few years, but Poland is doing a tremendous job. Hopefully this pace will be continued for the next 10 years or so.


----------



## toonczyk

rakcancer said:


> You are right here. Things sometimes look different from outside. Not everything is shining, not everything is right even if overall the things go in the right direction. Unfortunately some people have tendency to defend their opinion at any cost and take any even slightest critique pretty badly...


I'm first to criticize GDDKiA for what they do wrong - and that happens quite often. Actually I'm battling them in court over some issues, so my opinion could be very biased. What I oppose is blaming them for things they do right. And I do believe they are doing an amazing job in terms of tendering process, the fact that they've never had any problems getting reimbursements from EU structural funds speaks for itself. I'm still waiting for any constructive ideas how to make GDDKiA's tendering process better, something more than "price should not be the main criteria".


----------



## masages21

Just got the new information from GDDKiA: The S5 section Kaczkowo-Korzensko(border Greater Poland voivodeship and Lesser Silesia voivodeship) had to be put off. It will have been opened to traffic by the end of September, 2013.


----------



## and802

toonczyk said:


> I'm first to criticize GDDKiA for what they do wrong - and that happens quite often. Actually I'm battling them in court over some issues, so my opinion could be very biased. What I oppose is blaming them for things they do right. And I do believe they are doing an amazing job in terms of tendering process, the fact that they've never had any problems getting reimbursements from EU structural funds speaks for itself. I'm still waiting for any constructive ideas how to make GDDKiA's tendering process better, something more than "price should not be the main criteria".


what is wrong with the "price" as a main factor. if other criterias like quality tight schedule are met, then what the hell is wrong ?

I really second toonczyk in this conversation. I have got very, very similar view as toonczyk has on what "gdaka" is doing. 

I believe we are somehow afraid of is if the lowest price vendor wins the contract then we will see bad quality/termendous delays.

I am not an expert of contruction works contract, but storngly believe there are dedicated sections in a contract for a long term warranty and severe penalities for delays.

if for some reasons the shedule is delayed and a vendor does not pay any finance charges, there must be some conditions which do not allow to calculate these charges 
(like archeological stuff, permits not issued on time, etc). 

again I strongly believe "gdaka" guys will have no interest to cover vendor mistakes. we have got something like NIK (Supreme Audit Office) which controls public money contracts. if any corruption process is found then the guys go to prision. I would not take any risk ...

so these opinions, that "gdaka" is weak and cannot control the vendor or cannot execute the contracts in the right way - do not make much sense for me. there are only two implcations of these opinions: "gdaka" gus are currupted or "gdaka" guys are amateurs. if any of them is true NIK would already take care of them.


----------



## mcarling

masages21 said:


> Just got the new information from GDDKiA: The S5 section Kaczkowo-Korzensko(border Greater Poland voivodeship and Lesser Silesia voivodeship) had to be put off. It will have been opened to traffic by the end of September, 2013.


So, this section of the S5 would have been opened by September 2013. When will it be opened according to current estimates?


----------



## rakcancer

toonczyk said:


> I'm first to criticize GDDKiA for what they do wrong - and that happens quite often. Actually I'm battling them in court over some issues, so my opinion could be very biased.


Hey toonczyk. Just out of curiosity and I certainly will do understand if you don't want to answer my question: are you working for one of the companies involved in highways construction projects?


----------



## toonczyk

rakcancer said:


> Hey toonczyk. Just out of curiosity and I certainly will do understand if you don't want to answer my question: are you working for one of the companies involved in highways construction projects?


No, my only relation with road construction is that I'm a future user of those roads. I'm trying to do my duty as a citizen, stay informed and control how public money is spent, this is why I'm fighting GDDKiA on their information policy, I'd like them to be more open and transparent.


----------



## masages21

mcarling said:


> So, this section of the S5 would have been opened by September 2013. When will it be opened according to current estimates?


Something like December 2012?


----------



## shpirtkosova

How long does it take to drive from Lithuania to the German border?


----------



## rakcancer

According to google map almost 9 hours
http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=P...JS-ZcHRzHpbhjUX4fJww&oq=gulden&mra=ls&t=m&z=7


----------



## shpirtkosova

Thats not bad for 800km distance.


----------



## mcarling

masages21 said:


> Something like December 2012?


So ... you mean that September 2013 is the _*new*_ estimated opening date???


----------



## mcarling

rakcancer said:


> According to google map almost 9 hours
> http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=P...JS-ZcHRzHpbhjUX4fJww&oq=gulden&mra=ls&t=m&z=7


With the new sections of the S8 open now, it's faster (and a bit longer) to go via Bialystok. If you drive the legal maximum and make only one ten minute stop for fuel and other necessities, then seven hours should be possible -- especially if the works on the A2 east of Lodz have been completed.


----------



## rakcancer

shpirtkosova said:


> Thats not bad for 800km distance.


Well, it depends on the traffic, especially around Warsaw on the S8 bypass and on the section between eastern outskirt of Warsaw and Radzymin. If there is rush hour you can probably easily add another one hour.


----------



## rakcancer

mcarling said:


> With the new sections of the S8 open now, it's faster (and a bit longer) to go via Bialystok. If you drive the legal maximum and make only one ten minute stop for fuel and other necessities, then seven hours should be possible -- especially if the works on the A2 east of Lodz have been completed.


Bialystok could be jammed in rush hours too... However this is an alternative route.


----------



## masages21

mcarling said:


> So ... you mean that September 2013 is the new estimated opening date???


Exactly, nothing more nothing less


----------



## mcarling

masages21 said:


> Exactly, nothing more nothing less


Now it makes sense. It seemed that you had meant that September 2013 was the previously estimated opening date, no longer valid. Now it's clear.


----------



## Nikodem

Not sure if it was already mentioned in English section, but after last opening of A-1, Poland has now:

- more A km than Croatia
- more A km than UK per capita

Borat would say: GREAT SUCCESS! :banana:


----------



## masages21

mcarling said:


> Now it makes sense. It seemed that you had meant that September 2013 was the previously estimated opening date, no longer valid. Now it's clear.


Busy days, u know shiet happens ;p


----------



## masages21

....


----------



## jtybinka

Nikodem said:


> Not sure if it was already mentioned in English section, but after last opening of A-1, Poland has now:
> 
> - more A km than Croatia
> - more A km than UK per capita
> 
> Borat would say: GREAT SUCCESS! :banana:


What roads you consider for UK ?
only M roads or M roads plus 2 lines A roads ?


----------



## UPR20

I think per capita Poland has now more Motorways and other grade separated roads then the UK, if only motorways are taken into account UK is still ahead.


----------



## jwojcie

UK is a smaller country with a lot bigger population. I imagine, that roads over there have statistically more lanes. So maybe lane not road comparision would be more fair.


----------



## and802

do not want to be rude...

why are we trying to compare Polish road network to others ? what is the purpose ? sorry to tell it but I read it as we are trying to convince ourselves we are not the last ones in what we call Europe.
once we have a decent road network that kind of "comparisons" disappear


----------



## geogregor

jwojcie said:


> UK is a smaller country with a lot bigger population. I imagine, that roads over there have statistically more lanes. So maybe lane not road comparision would be more fair.


Precisely.
Most of the UK motorways are 2x3 lanes, or even 2x4 because they carry way more traffic than our roads. As it is smaller country with much more concentrated population there si less need for long network. Their priority is increasing priority of the existing network.

Poland is at completely different stage of development. We are building network linking places further apart than in the UK but which are usually smaller.


----------



## lukaszek89

A4 Szarów-Tarnów 

pictures from Brzesko

made by Zod75

a lot more here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=992981&page=439


----------



## lukaszek89

^^

A4 Tarnów Zachód-Szarów



Agusia said:


> Proponuję ustawić na jakość HD z uwagi na zapadający zmrok. Zapinamy pasy i jedziemy z węzła Tarnów Zachód do węzła Szarów.
> Miłego oglądania.


There are some rumours that it may be opened in Thursday (Szarów-Tarnów Północ, Brzesko-Wierzchosławice part will be partially opened)


----------



## Chris80678

lukaszek89 said:


> ^^
> 
> A4 Tarnów Zachód-Szarów
> 
> There are some rumours that it may be opened in Thursday
> (Szarów-Tarnów Północ, Brzesko-Wierzchosławice part will be partially opened)


Looking at the video I think a Thursday evening opening looks possible for this stretch of the A4


----------



## Luki_SL

S2/S79 expressways in Warsaw, photos made by Starver


Starver said:


> a


More : S2/S79


----------



## flierfy

It's going to be a excellent road it seems. The directional signage on Polish motorways, however, is still dreadful. For all the funds that are currently poured into Polish roads, the signage comes off badly. That is really a shame.


----------



## Mateusz

Gantries  A Road which is worth millions of Euros and still they still use these tiny local-style signs...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A4 in the 1960s


----------



## michal_OMB

Great view to S79 (Warsaw) 



> by Starver


----------



## masages21

Is it 4 lane all way long?


----------



## bleetz

michal_OMB said:


> Great view to S79 (Warsaw)


Simply beautiful.


----------



## UPR20

masages21 said:


> Is it 4 lane all way long?


No, a 2 km section between the two most southerly interchanges is just 3 lanes wide.


----------



## masages21

Sounds good anyway


----------



## [email protected]

When is the S79 & S2 supposed to open?


----------



## toonczyk

^^ I think end of Q2 2013 is a good bet.


----------



## mappero

ChrisZwolle said:


> A4 in the 1960s


Thanks Chris for this photo 

I remember this shape of this motorway almost by hard. No hard shoulder or even barriers in the middle at all... 
I spend my whole childhood traveling to my family back and forth here. Also some of my friends died here because lack of barriers...
First safety upgrade was here in late nineties but still the longest staircase in Europe was in operation till 2006-2008


----------



## ufonut

So this week (all confirmed) we have several openings:

A4 Szarow-Tarnow - 57.0 km Nov 29th
S8 Olesnica-Sycow - 25.1 km Nov 30th
A1 Swierklany-Gorzyczki - 18.4 km Nov 30th 

Total = 100.5 km


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Will A4 open until Tarnów-Wierzchosławice or Tarnów-Krzyż?


----------



## Surel

ufonut said:


> So this week (all confirmed) we have several openings:
> 
> A4 Szarow-Tarnow - 57.0 km Nov 29th
> S8 Olesnica-Sycow - 25.1 km Nov 30th
> A1 Swierklany-Gorzyczki - 18.4 km Nov 30th
> 
> Total = 100.5 km


Its just Mszana-Gorzyczki and only for vehicles under 3,5 ton.


----------



## lukaszek89

ChrisZwolle said:


> Will A4 open until Tarnów-Wierzchosławice or Tarnów-Krzyż?


Tarnów Krzyż( it's called officially Tarnów Północ-Tarnow North)

Trucks will have leave A4 in Szarów.


----------



## Angulo

> A1 Swierklany-Gorzyczki - 18.4 km Nov 30th


That would be 10,6/10,7km, because only Mszana - Czech border will be opened.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yay DK50 at Żyrardów opened!


----------



## toonczyk

^^ Which is even better news than it sounds, because it means there is now a very comfortable connection between Warsaw and Piotrków Trybunalski (and whole Silesia farther south) bypassing Raszyn and Janki.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Exactly, you can change A2 for S8 and vice versa!


----------



## and802

toonczyk said:


> ^^ Which is even better news than it sounds, because it means there is now a very comfortable connection between Warsaw and Piotrków Trybunalski (and whole Silesia farther south) bypassing Raszyn and Janki.


correct. living in the norhern suberbia of Warsaw this is the only one route to go south.


----------



## WB2010

Bird's-eye view of the Stryków junction:


----------



## masages21

It's pretty impressive!


----------



## Kuras77

S79/S2



koszatek said:


>


----------



## Chris80678

Looks like there is still a long way to go before completion of the S2 between A2 and S79 interchange hno:


----------



## Rusonaldo

Motorways & Ekspresways in Poland


----------



## majkel87

^^ Good job!


----------



## lukaszek89

*A4 Szarów-Tarnów Północ is open! (57 km)
*


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Is there already an ETA on the S8 Adamowice - Radziejowice opening?


----------



## ufonut

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is there already an ETA on the S8 Adamowice - Radziejowice opening?


December 15th according to this:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=97744446&postcount=4548


----------



## bleetz

If I look for Adamowice and Radziejowice section on Google Maps, it comes up with a 250 km. section.


----------



## bleetz

WB2010 said:


> Bird's-eye view of the Stryków junction:
> 
> http://img.interia.pl/biznes/nimg/m/l/ZAL5983321.jpg
> 
> http://img.interia.pl/biznes/nimg/h/b/ZAL5983323.jpg


Excellent stuff.


----------



## mcarling

bleetz said:


> If I look for Adamowice and Radziejowice section on Google Maps, it comes up with a 250 km. section.


That section is between Warsaw and DK50. It should be possible to find it at http://www.openstreetmap.org/.


----------



## Czas na Żywiec

^^ I think you mean Warsaw.


----------



## bleetz

Ah, ok, thanks. It's about 9 km. then? Or did I get it wrong again?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What's the difference between a "kolizja" and a "wypadek"? Is it collision vs collision with injuries/fatalities?


----------



## Janek0

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's worth mentioning that the DK78 Jędrzejów northern bypass opened to traffic. It's expressway standard (GP class) but doesn't have S/A status.


GP class is not an expressway standard, it is a level below.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

GP class could be considered an expressway in many countries. However, standards for GP class roads vary a lot.


----------



## Angulo

> GP class could be considered an expressway in many countries. However, standards for GP class roads vary a lot.


It's even better than many motorways all over Europe, but class isn't as important as fact that this road is existing.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^You are right The GP class road (2x2) with junctions looks like motorway for European driver  We should remember, that GP class roads (1x1) exist too


----------



## geogregor

Angulo said:


> It's even better than many motorways all over Europe, but class isn't as important as fact that this road is existing.


Some of them yes (like the one above), but some of them might have single level junctions (if I'm not wrong) . As Chris said, standard of the GP roads vary a lot.


----------



## bleetz

Does anybody know more detailed plans regarding 'Via Carpathia'? What bothers me is that plans are normally drawn with a Bialystok - Augustow - Suwalki section, section which has been removed from original 'Via Baltica' because of environmental issues. Are they planning to build that section again? I am aware that they are not going to start building the road any time soon, just curious about the details...

http://rzeszow.gazeta.pl/rzeszow/1,...a_szanse_na_rychla_budowe_Via_Carpathia_.html


----------



## rakcancer

I think we were already discussing this topic. In short: in Poland Via Carpatia means mostly S19 which runs from Bialystok to Rzeszow and then to border with Slovakia plus connection between Bialystok and Suwalki and then with Lithuanian border which originally supposed to be S8... As for now there are other priorities in our country so there is no funds for that project. There are some small sections of S19 built (Kock, Miedzyrzecz Podlaski and small section of Rzeszow bypass). Bypass of Lublin is also a part of S19 and is now under construction. Other than that not much is happening. The projections are that whole via Carpatia may be built in 2030 or even 2050...


----------



## bleetz

I realise that, but I am wondering why E67 couldn't have gone through Bialystok too. Would've saved a lot of work. It seems a bit unnecessary to have another road from Suwalki to Zambrow (S61) if they are planning to build a Bialystok - Suwalki connection.


----------



## rakcancer

That was a bit of politics back in mid of first decade of 2000. Local politicians from Lomza region were very involved in shifting transit route from originally planned Warsaw-Bialystok-Suwalki to one via Lomza. On the top of that there was a very strong lobbing from environmental organisations - they blocked construction of bypass of Augustow already in progress because of some unique areas around Augustow has been on the list to be preserved. It worked out the way now we have S61 in planning.
There was a similar situation with S8 few years ago. Originally, S8 was planned to link Wroclaw with Warsaw through Belchatow and Piotrkow Trybunalski but the discussion started that these towns which are about ten times smaller than city of Lodz don't deserve that so they rerouted S8 towards Lodz.
IMHO S61 makes no sense though is a bit shorter than route via Bialystok. I think it will share the same no-progress future in next 20 years as most of S19 we have spoken before.


----------



## E2rdEm

rakcancer said:


> Local politicians from Lomza region were very involved in shifting transit route from originally planned Warsaw-Bialystok-Suwalki to one via Lomza.


To my knowlnedge it was the other way round - Białystok's road directorate (don't know if it was influenced by Białystok's politicians) banned truck traffic through Łomża for year 2005 (thus diverting it through Białystok) - just to show in 2005's AADT figures, that route through Łomża is empty, while the one through Białystok is overloaded and needs urgent upgrade.



rakcancer said:


> Originally, S8 was planned to link Wroclaw with Warsaw through Belchatow and Piotrkow Trybunalski but the discussion started that these towns which are about ten times smaller than city of Lodz don't deserve that so they rerouted S8 towards Lodz.


To my knowledge it was the other way round. This connection (originally as a motorway) was always planned along the "old" Warszawa-Wrocław route, which was always through Łowicz-Łódź-Sieradz. It was supposed to use A2 from Warszawa to Łódź and then branch as A8 from Łodź to Wrocław. In 1990s (or was it 80s?) they started signing Warszawa-Wrocław route through Piotrków, using already existing 2x2 road (a good move for the time, imo), and some started asking "why planned A8/S8 isn't rerouted too". From then we may agree that discussion started...

So, here you are, folks - in Poland, in the matters connected to politics, we can't even agree on the facts.  You have too choose your own version...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I doubt whether Wrocław - Warszawa via A1-A2 is actually longer than if it had been constructed via Piotrków Trybunalski directly. The difference appears to be pretty minor. Only Wrocław - Piotrków is really somewhat longer than via a direct route.


----------



## Luki_SL

Today was opened  Jarosław Bypass  - on national road no 4 (E40). It`s GP class road (1x4) - 11,3km long. There is short section 2x2 (about 1km) at the beginning of this bypass


----------



## rakcancer

E2rdEm said:


> To my knowlnedge it was the other way round - Białystok's road directorate (don't know if it was influenced by Białystok's politicians) banned truck traffic through Łomża for year 2005 (thus diverting it through Białystok) - just to show in 2005's AADT figures, that route through Łomża is empty, while the one through Białystok is overloaded and needs urgent upgrade.


Not sure how Bialystok could ban truck traffic through Lomza. There was and is heavy truck movement through that town. If someone would be against that it would be a people living in that city because a lack of bypass.




> To my knowledge it was the other way round. This connection (originally as a motorway) was always planned along the "old" Warszawa-Wrocław route, which was always through Łowicz-Łódź-Sieradz. It was supposed to use A2 from Warszawa to Łódź and then branch as A8 from Łodź to Wrocław. In 1990s (or was it 80s?) they started signing Warszawa-Wrocław route through Piotrków, using already existing 2x2 road (a good move for the time, imo), and some started asking "why planned A8/S8 isn't rerouted too". From then we may agree that discussion started...


I think you are talking about very past. The last version just before planning and constructing S8 was to build it via Belchatow. There is a link from GDDiKA:

http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/5211/dlaczego-s8-powinna-przechodzic-przez-belchatow


----------



## rakcancer

ChrisZwolle said:


> I doubt whether Wrocław - Warszawa via A1-A2 is actually longer than if it had been constructed via Piotrków Trybunalski directly. The difference appears to be pretty minor. Only Wrocław - Piotrków is really somewhat longer than via a direct route.


Honestly, if we had more funds at he present it would make sense for both options: to build S8 via Belchatow to Piotrkow and also extension as is now constructed via Sieradz and Lodz.....both would have enough traffic volume to be expressways..... but of course that is only a dreaming at the moment.


----------



## bleetz

E2rdEm said:


> To my knowlnedge it was the other way round - Białystok's road directorate (don't know if it was influenced by Białystok's politicians) banned truck traffic through Łomża for year 2005 (thus diverting it through Białystok) - just to show in 2005's AADT figures, that route through Łomża is empty, while the one through Białystok is overloaded and needs urgent upgrade.
> 
> 
> To my knowledge it was the other way round. This connection (originally as a motorway) was always planned along the "old" Warszawa-Wrocław route, which was always through Łowicz-Łódź-Sieradz. It was supposed to use A2 from Warszawa to Łódź and then branch as A8 from Łodź to Wrocław. In 1990s (or was it 80s?) they started signing Warszawa-Wrocław route through Piotrków, using already existing 2x2 road (a good move for the time, imo), and some started asking "why planned A8/S8 isn't rerouted too". From then we may agree that discussion started...
> 
> So, here you are, folks - in Poland, in the matters connected to politics, we can't even agree on the facts.  You have too choose your own version...


If they are indeed planning to build the Bialystok - Suwalki connection again, they should ditch the Suwalki - Zambrow connection (S61) and return the E67 to the original route via Bialystok. This way, Bialystok - Suwalki would become part of two international routes (Via Baltica and Via Carpathia) and have more chances to get built quicker. Building the Bialystok - Suwalki section and the Zambrow - Suwalki section is a waste of resources and time in my opinion. Having these two duplicating projects there is one of the main reasons why road construction is stagnating in that region.


----------



## mcarling

The more direct S61 from Lomza to Suwalki is important for the integration of the Baltic States into the EU. It's difficult to see any justification for upgrading Bialystok - Suwalki to 2x2 before Poland has 10,000 kilometers of A/S class roads. The latter might be nice, but the Bialystok - Suwalki traffic is very light and much of that is traffic between the Baltics and Warsaw or beyond that will switch to the S61 when it is completed.


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## Japinta

S61 is not planned through Zambrow but Ostrow Mazowiecka - similar to existing road 677.


----------



## bleetz

Japinta: My bad.



mcarling said:


> The more direct S61 from Lomza to Suwalki is important for the integration of the Baltic States into the EU. It's difficult to see any justification for upgrading Bialystok - Suwalki to 2x2 before Poland has 10,000 kilometers of A/S class roads. The latter might be nice, but the Bialystok - Suwalki traffic is very light and much of that is traffic between the Baltics and Warsaw or beyond that will switch to the S61 when it is completed.


The difference between sections Ostrow Mazowiecka - Suwalki via S61 and Ostrow Mazowiecka - Suwalki via Bialystok is about 40 km. Such distance is not significant enough to build a brand new road. My point stands: if they are planning to build an expressway from Suwalki to Bialystok some time in the future (even if 50 years from now), they might as well do it now and ditch the S61 project altogether.

Regarding the traffic numbers between Bialystok and Augustow, they might be low now, but lots of drivers from the Baltics will be switching to that route as S8 improves. Some Lithuanian forumers already have done so and were happy with the choice. Next time I drive through Poland, I will most likely be driving through Bialystok too. Routes through Lomza and through Bialystok are interchangeable for Baltic drivers. Once they finish the S8 from Bialystok to Ostrow Mazowiecka (or improve it significantly), nobody will be driving through Lomza until a significant part of S61 is built. They should forget the S61 and put resources into improving the Suwalki - Bialystok section. 

My two cents.


----------



## mcarling

bleetz said:


> The difference between sections Ostrow Mazowiecka - Suwalki via S61 and Ostrow Mazowiecka - Suwalki via Bialystok is about 40 km. Such distance is not significant enough to build a brand new road.


40km multiplied by a large number of drivers represents a huge reduction in wasted time, road fatalities, pollution, wasted fuel, and wear and tear on vehicles.



bleetz said:


> Regarding the traffic numbers between Bialystok and Augustow, they might be low now, but lots of drivers from the Baltics will be switching to that route as S8 improves.


It's the other way around. Baltic traffic has already switched to the long detour via Bialystok because it's now faster because the S8/DK8 is in much better condition and doesn't go through villages. When the S61 is built, they will all switch back.

If both S61 and a 2x2 Bialystok - Suwalki road will be built, the S61 will have much higher AADT than the Bialystok - Suwalki road; I guess probably more than double. And if you're talking about 50 years in the future, then the S61 will probably obviate the need to upgrade the S8 to 2x3 between Ostrow Mazowiecka and Bialystok.


----------



## bleetz

What _is_ a source of fatalities, pollution and wasted fuel is having two road projects both of which are going nowhere. Your example shows that the routes through Lomza and Bialystok are interchangeable and people switch between them based on their condition, meaning that the 40km isn't that significant in the end. Once the S8 is improved/built between Bialystok and Ostrow Mazowiecka, all of the Baltic traffic will be switching to the Bialystok route for a long, long time as S61 has no concrete works tendered out, except for a couple of single-lane bypasses. This switch will pump up the AADT of the Suwalki - Bialystok section. The next logical thing would be to use the pumped up AADT figures and the fact that the section will be part of two international corridors (Via Baltica and Via Carpathia) to get funds for the improvements. Once that is built, then consider building S61. 

The 40 km. would be a small price to pay for Baltic drivers to get:

1. An expressway connection to Warsaw much sooner (assuming S8 to Bialystok is complete by the time any of this is built, the section via Bialystok would require 60 km. less of brand new expressway construction, which is a huge number);

2. Much better connection to the 'Via Carpathia' road (south east Poland, Ukraine, Slovakia, etc.).

The only reason why anyone even considered building the S61 was because the Augustow - Bialystok section could not be built due to environmental concerns. Now that those concerns are gone and they are planning to build roads there again, they should cancel the S61 altogether, even if just for now.


----------



## E2rdEm

^^ I never understood why Białystok is so eager to stop S61 from building. Are you guys afraid of loosing thousands of polluting trucks roaming your city's outskirts?

The current plan is that S8 Warszawa-Białystok will surely be built in the first phase, as soon as there is money. Only then there is a chance to start thinking about S61. For the time being, I predict only Suwałki bypass and Łomża bypass (well, maybe with a connection to Ostrów Mazowiecka) have any chance to be built untill 2020.

The road Białystok-Augustów (Suwałki) is in decent condition, and AADT of 6700-8100 doesn't really justify any upgrade. Even the DW677 (Łomża-Ostrów) has higher AADT of 7600-8800... That's where the trucks go.


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## metacatfry

Good transport links with the rest of the world are critical for businesses to be competitive and successful, and those in turn bring tax revenue and jobs.


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## rakcancer

E2rdEm said:


> I predict only Suwałki bypass and Łomża bypass (well, maybe with a connection to Ostrów Mazowiecka) have any chance to be built untill 2020.


Łomża bypass is needed now regardless of if it is expressway or not, Suwalki bypass too... the rest in my opinion is a song of distant future.... 

On the other hand I am wondering how is now possible to build S8 between Bialystok and Suwalki with that Natura 2000 areas around Augustow? Are there any works in progress on redirecting that route?


----------



## bleetz

E2rdEm said:


> ^^ I never understood why Białystok is so eager to stop S61 from building. Are *you guys* afraid of loosing thousands of polluting trucks roaming your city's outskirts?
> 
> The current plan is that S8 Warszawa-Białystok will surely be built in the first phase, as soon as there is money. Only then there is a chance to start thinking about S61. For the time being, I predict only Suwałki bypass and Łomża bypass (well, maybe with a connection to Ostrów Mazowiecka) have any chance to be built untill 2020.
> 
> The road Białystok-Augustów (Suwałki) is in decent condition, and AADT of 6700-8100 doesn't really justify any upgrade. Even the DW677 (Łomża-Ostrów) has higher AADT of 7600-8800... That's where the trucks go.


I suppose you are referring to me there?  I am not from Bialystok, I am from Lithuania, so completely neutral, and I already stated the reasons why I would prefer the E67 to go via Bialystok and S61 cancelled (at least for now). There's no budget for two roads in those regions at the moment, so it is best if they concentrated one the more important one, namely Bialystok - Suwalki. And AADT will increase in the next few years significantly due to drivers switching away from the Lomza route (it is already happening).


----------



## mcarling

bleetz said:


> There's no budget for two roads in those regions at the moment, so it is best if they concentrated one the more important one, namely Bialystok - Suwalki.


We disagree about which road is more important. I've driven between Bialystok and Augustow many times and it's a lonely road.


----------



## metacatfry

> WARSAW (Reuters) - The European Commission is investigating why Poland's government is refusing to pay dozens of foreign contractors for work carried out under a road-building program worth billions of euros and backed by Europe.


...


> The overall picture, contractors say, is of an agency where staff were struggling to keep up with the huge scale of the project and were tied up in red tape.
> 
> "The attitude (inside GDDKiA) appears to be: 'I don't want to make a decision, let contractors go to court over it'," said Finn Lyden, chief executive of Irish builder SIAC, one of the firms taking the agency to court.
> 
> The highways agency says that where disputes have arisen, it is because contractors' work did not meet its exacting quality standards. It said it was forced itself to terminate several contracts because of failures by contractors.
> 
> It also says firms were caught out because they did not properly plan for the possibility that the prices of raw materials would rise.
> 
> Nevertheless, GDDKiA chief Witecki acknowledged there was room for improvement in the way the agency managed contracts.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-poland-roadsbre8bi0vt-20121219,0,6544436.story


----------



## geogregor

Wow, Polish road building made it all the way to Chicago Tribune.
I'm impressed.


----------



## Rusonaldo




----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't really trust the media about stories of highway construction, especially foreign media where stories are usually one-sided.


----------



## metacatfry

the primary point of the story is that the EU commission have decided to start an investigation. I think it would be nice if that lead to some more clarity on the issue.


----------



## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> I don't really trust the media about stories of highway construction, especially foreign media where stories are usually one-sided.


Here's a longer statement from mr Lyden:





It seems to me that they failed to fully understand the contract before they signed it, same as COVEC did. It's true that there is a great imbalance in GDDKiA's contracts, contractors take pretty much all risks upon themselves, they are responsible for dealing with any unexpected difficulties etc. SRB/SIAC seemed to think they are signing a "vanilla" FICIC, but in fact GDDKiA use a highly modified version of FIDIC. The changes are obvious when you read the contract, so the fact that they acted surprised two years after signing it is ridiculous. All contractors in Poland know the rules and they adjust their prices accordingly. I'd say claiming that all FIDIC contracts in Europe are shovel ready and only in Poland you get problems is very naive. Obviously there is room for improvement on GDDKiA's part, but after all SRB/SIAC did sign those contracts and they did agree on those terms, so there is very little to be done now. You also have to understand GDDKiA can't help them even if they wanted to, because if they spend a single ZŁ more than they are obliged to under terms of the contract, they will be held responsible for it.

Also there is some obvious misinformation on mister Lyden's part, when he states costs could be cut by half if they were allowed to use prefabricates. Obviously that's not true.


----------



## Surel

^^
He did not persuade me. These kinds of excuses are always the same. Playing the political note to push things is typical. He just met tougher partner than he expected, if it were business business relation, he would have not much to do.

That technology transfer bullshit gives him away. Besides, it seems to me that the Polish motorways standards are higher than the Irish ones... well, happy cutting in half.

I would be on the side of contractors only if someone showed me that the contract would state that e.g. GDDKiA promised to provide with all the permits but during the construction failed to deliver them to the constructor, which could not build. If however in the contract is stated that the risk is on the side of the contractor and that not delivered permit doesn't mean he is not obliged to deliver, then it is very bad legal reading and bargaining on the contractor side when closing the contract. (but it is also nonsensical situation, nevertheless legally bulletproof).

I hope for the GDDKia to have the law on its side it this one.


----------



## toonczyk

Surel said:


> That technology transfer bullshit gives him away. Besides, it seems to me that the Polish motorways standards are higher than the Irish ones... well, happy cutting in half.


Motorway section built by SIAC (A4 Krzyż - Dębica Pustynia) cost about ~50 mln PLN per km. That's actually pretty expensive, in 2010 (when this contract was signed) average price for 2x2 A/S roads in Poland was ~35 mln PLN per km. But I wonder where did he get this idea of 50% cheaper in Ireland, for example M9 Carlow - Knocktopher which was built by SIAC, cost around 11.6 mln EUR per km, which in 2010's exchange rates would give us something like 46 mln PLN per km. Granted, labor is much cheaper than in Ireland, but cost of motorway construction consists mostly of materials like fuel, concrete, aggregates, steel etc., which cost roughly the same around Europe. You also have to notice A4 is a higher standard road (perhaps too high considering forecast traffic?) than M9.. So yeah.


----------



## bleetz

mcarling said:


> We disagree about which road is more important. I've driven between Bialystok and Augustow many times and it's a lonely road.


Drive there in a few years and you'll see a different picture. Even now lots of traffic from the Lomza route has migrated to the Bialystok route, this trend will continue as the S8 is improved.


----------



## mcarling

bleetz said:


> Drive there in a few years and you'll see a different picture. Even now lots of traffic from the Lomza route has migrated to the Bialystok route, this trend will continue as the S8 is improved.


That's a circular argument. You're saying improve the circuitous route rather than the direct route because improvements to the circuitous route will make it more attractive. 

It's like going back to 1995 and saying: "No! Don't improve the A1 between Vilnius and Kaunas because we already have this great A2 between Vilnius and Panevezys. Instead improve the A6 between Kaunas and Ukmerge and let all the Vilnius - Kaunas traffic drive via Ukmerge!"


----------



## and802

Surel said:


> ^^
> ...I would be on the side of contractors only if someone showed me that the contract would state that e.g. GDDKiA promised to provide with all the permits but during the construction failed to deliver them to the constructor, which could not build. If however in the contract is stated that the risk is on the side of the contractor and that not delivered permit doesn't mean he is not obliged to deliver, then it is very bad legal reading and bargaining on the contractor side when closing the contract. (but it is also nonsensical situation, nevertheless legally bulletproof).


I share your opinion. nobody put a gun to his head asking politely to sign the contract. I guess either he did not find his favourite horse head in his bed one day. he signed it because this was his own will. if - for some reasons - he did not want to read/verify/check contract attachment ... well shame on him. his bad. 
for me the situaation is clear, he had wanted to be smart, but GDKKiA turned out as a smarter partner in that deal. 
the SIAC team (probably lead by that guy), which worked on bid/contract documents should be immediately fired, they brought the company to serious troubles doing business on terra nova without experience and proper preparation.

personally I am happy GDDKiA secured public money.


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## ChrisZwolle

Quite frankly it looks like many foreign construction companies thought they could easily made big money in Poland by using substandard materials. Chinese COVEC even thought they came to Africa. Well, I guess that says something about how the Chinese-built African roads will look in a few years.


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## rakcancer

That is about right. Chinese are super fast yet super cheap....


----------



## bleetz

mcarling said:


> That's a circular argument. You're saying improve the circuitous route rather than the direct route because improvements to the circuitous route will make it more attractive.
> 
> It's like going back to 1995 and saying: "No! Don't improve the A1 between Vilnius and Kaunas because we already have this great A2 between Vilnius and Panevezys. Instead improve the A6 between Kaunas and Ukmerge and let all the Vilnius - Kaunas traffic drive via Ukmerge!"


No, that's not what I am saying at all.

What I am saying is that essentially now, they are planning to build two connections between Suwalki and Ostrow Mazowiecka, one of which is 40 km. shorter than the other. This distance saving is not very significant to the international, long distance traffic as proven by the fact that people have been switching between those roads based on their condition. 

Now, to summarise my point, I believe that having these two connections built relatively soon (in our lifetimes?) is essentially day dreaming. With split AADT, they have zero chances of getting built, and I believe that the problem is with the fact that they are trying to work on both of them at once.

Now:

1. The Bialystok - Suwalki section requires 60km. less of new expressway to connect Suwalki to Warsaw via expressway only;
2. That section is also a connection to Via Carpathia, so it is part of another international corridor, which is also important to Baltic traffic (so you can move all Baltic traffic to the Bialystok route, but you can't move traffic from the Bialystok route to the S61 as some of it is going south and some of it is going to/from Bialystok, while the S61 has no major cities in it's way);
3. The Baltic traffic is already switching to that section due to improvements in the S8 between Bialystok and Ostrow Mazowiecka, so the 40 km. _really_ isn't that important.

The *only* way they can connect Suwalki to Warsaw via expressways relatively soon (in our lifetimes?) in this situation is this:
- Concentrate on the Bialystok - Suwalki section only and forget the S61 for now;
- The Baltic traffic will switch to the Bialystok - Suwalki section with every improvement, leaving the Lomza route empty (very few extra improvements will be needed as people are already doing so);
- The AADT of that road will be huge and hence people high up will see the priority and might possibly give some financing.

Once this is built, we can concentrate on the S61. Right now when the traffic is split, none of these roads will ever have a high enough AADT to justify massive spending on them and as much as I would want the 40km. shorter connection _and_ an expressway between Bialystok and Suwalki, both of these will remain a day dream for another what... 50 years? Wait for literally ages just to get a 40 km. shorter connection? I say no, let's do the Bialystok - Suwalki first and let's do the Suwalki - Lomza - Ostrow then.


----------



## geogregor

I think bleetz is right. 
There is no chance for both of these roads to be build. We have to choose one. In that respect priority for the Suwalki -Bialystok route is no-brainer.


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## mako22

How did you even come across the idea that S8 Suwalki - Augustow - Bialystok is going to be build in near future? The project has been abandoned and there are absolutely no plans to upgrade the road to expressway standards.
In 2008 "Scott&Wilson" has proved that S61 will be more economically-efficient, and environmental-friendly than S8 Bialystok - Suwalki and therefore, since since 2009, S61 has been officially accepted by the government.


----------



## bleetz

http://rzeszow.gazeta.pl/rzeszow/1,...a_szanse_na_rychla_budowe_Via_Carpathia_.html

Btw, you're from Ełk so I don't expect you to be unbiased


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## mako22

^^


Just a newspaper. Was affraid it was some more reliable source of information 
I actually don't see any chance ViaCarpatia would be built withing next 15-20 years. Traffic north to Lublin is fairly low and budget is not getting bigger. Hopefully one will be able to drive from Slovakia to Lithuania via S19-S17-S8-S61 sooner than entire S19 corridor will be upgraded.


----------



## mcarling

mako22 said:


> I actually don't see any chance ViaCarpatia would be built withing next 15-20 years. Traffic north to Lublin is fairly low and budget is not getting bigger. Hopefully one will be able to drive from Slovakia to Lithuania via S19-S17-S8-S61 sooner than entire S19 corridor will be upgraded.


I don't see any chance of getting as far as funding approval for the Via Carpathia in the next 20 years. Heck, there is not even a reasonable route for traffic between Vienna/Bratislava/Budapest and Warsaw yet (let alone the Baltics) and it seems there will not be one during this decade (though progress toward it will continue). Worrying about traffic between Kosice/Presov and the Baltics seems like worrying about fraying ends on the hairs on a gnat's testicle. I guess AADT for traffic between eastern Slovakia and the Baltics is probably between 0 and 1.

2x2 S8 from Bialystok to Suwalki would not make my list of top 100 priorities for Polish roads. Even 2x2 S22 from Kostrzyn to Elblag should, in my opinion, be a higher priority (though not in the top 50). Has anyone noticed that the S7 between Warsaw and Krakow is nowhere near completion??? :nuts:

S61 is the only 2x2 road Poland needs to build to the LT border. When Lithuania completes upgrading to 2x2 the A4 from Vilnius to Alytus and begins construction of the 2x2 extension to Lazdijai, then we can talk about a 2x2 road from Bialystok to the LT border.


----------



## bleetz

Even if Baltic traffic to south Poland, Ukraine and further south isn't important (which I think it is in the long term), even if connections to/from the largest city in the region (Bialystok) are not important (which I think they are), even if the connection to another to-be international transport corridor is not important (which I think it is), what I am sure you will agree _is_ important is the fact that the Bialystok - Suwalki section needs 60km. less of new expressways (once the S8 is complete). 60km. is a huge number. As you mentioned, there are lots of more important sections that aren't even completed. What you are proposing is essentially building an _extra_ 60 km. to save 40km. in the middle of nowhere, and that is day dreaming.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think the main disadvantage for S19 is that there is a circa 220 kilometer stretch between Białystok and Lublin with no cities of any significance in between while transit traffic is not very high (yet).


----------



## mcarling

bleetz said:


> What you are proposing is essentially building an _extra_ 60 km. to save 40km. in the middle of nowhere, and that is day dreaming.


It's not my proposal. It's the official plan to build 60km of road *once* to save 40km about *a million times* per year.

How many kilometers were cut from the Warsaw - Lodz route by building about 90km of A2?


----------



## bleetz

mcarling said:


> It's not my proposal. It's the official plan to build 60km of road *once* to save 40km about *a million times* per year.
> 
> How many kilometers were cut from the Warsaw - Lodz route by building about 90km of A2?


And where has this amazing plan of building this amazing connection taken us so far, when Poland was experiencing the biggest road building spree in recent European history? How many sections of expressway have been built on this road, and how many of them are planned in the near future?

Face it, this route is a plan B route that was drawn just because Bialystok - Suwalki became unviable due to environmental concerns. They probably drew it just to make Lithuanians and the Suwalki region happy, the reality is that this 'plan' might as well not exist as it will never get any financing. If those environmental concerns for the Bialystok - Suwalki route are gone, I'm sure they will redraw the original E67 which is the only one that has any chances of getting built.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

geogregor said:


> Wow, Polish road building made it all the way to Chicago Tribune.
> I'm impressed.


Well there are about 2 million Polish people in Chicago so it makes sense. :lol:


----------



## TheFlyPL

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Well there are about 2 million Polish people in Chicago so it makes sense. :lol:


200 thousands. One zero less.


----------



## mako22

bleetz said:


> And where has this amazing plan of building this amazing connection taken us so far, when Poland was experiencing the biggest road building spree in recent European history? How many sections of expressway have been built on this road, and how many of them are planned in the near future?


The question is how many km would have been build if it was traced via Bialystok. If we consider Bialystok - Suwalki of S8 and Ostrow Maz - Suwalki of S61 sections, I am pretty sure it would be exactly as many as S61 sections have been build so far ... 0 km. Truth is there are more important roads in Poland which need to be upgraded in the first place.



bleetz said:


> Face it, this route is a plan B route that was drawn just because Bialystok - Suwalki became unviable due to environmental concerns. They probably drew it just to make Lithuanians and the Suwalki region happy, the reality is that this 'plan' might as well not exist as it will never get any financing.


And again. I really doubt that Polish Gorvernment cares so much about the Lithuanians. Especially recently. Suwalki have been waiting for expressway bypass and it seems that they're not going to get it any soon as well.

S61 is not only to support transit to Baltic Countries but also to provide better connection with the Capital and pretty common tourist destinations in north-eastern Poland.



bleetz said:


> If those environmental concerns for the Bialystok - Suwalki route are gone, I'm sure they will redraw the original E67 which is the only one that has any chances of getting built.


How are they supposed to be gone?
S8 Bialystok-Suwalki section would have to cross Biebrzanski National Park and since there's alternate route (S61) there's no chance that DK8 will be upgraded to expressway standard putting all the heavy traffic through the national park. It's neither reasonable nor necessary.


----------



## bleetz

mako22 said:


> The question is how many km would have been build if it was traced via Bialystok. If we consider Bialystok - Suwalki of S8 and Ostrow Maz - Suwalki of S61 sections, I am pretty sure it would be exactly as many as S61 sections have been build so far ... 0 km. Truth is there are more important roads in Poland which need to be upgraded in the first place.


If the route was going through Bialystok and all the Baltic traffic was shifted there (easy to do), then the combined AADT would've be much higher than AADT of S61 alone and so the chances of getting financing for improvement would've been significantly higher. What is there not to understand?



> How are they supposed to be gone?


I am saying that based on the news article about Via Carpathia. If those concerns aren't gone then fair enough, let's leave the S61 plan as it is and not build anything in the region for another 20 years, however, if those concerns _are_ gone then the E67 should go through the Suwalki - Bialystok section.


----------



## mcarling

bleetz said:


> If the route was going through Bialystok and all the Baltic traffic was shifted there (easy to do), then the combined AADT would've be much higher than AADT of S61 alone and so the chances of getting financing for improvement would've been significantly higher. What is there not to understand?


Your statement is not even internally consistent. After the S61 will be built, all the Baltic traffic _will not be shifted_ to detour through Bialystok, so your hypothetical AADT comparison makes no sense.

If you're looking for an argument against S61, it would be less far-fetched to argue that the Via Baltica should run Berlin - Kostrzyn - Elblag - Koenigsberg - Taurage - Siauliai - Jelgava - Riga - Tallinn - Helsinki. That won't happen anytime soon (for political reasons) but at least it wouldn't involve a ridiculous 40km detour.


----------



## Chris80678

Is there any chance of the A4 between the Jarosław and Radymno exits opening to traffic before the end of 2012?


----------



## Agusia

None. First, they planned to open before the end of the year but the plans have changed. I hope they will open A4 in January.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Trasa Sucharskiego, Gdańsk*

The southern part of the harbor expressway opened in Gdańsk today.

The _boortunnel in aanleg_ part means "bored tunnel under construction".


----------



## rakcancer

That is excellent news. From now on this route improves access from A1/S7 to the port and industrial areas of Gdansk. After finishing work on tunnel north part of Gdansk will benefit having easy and convenient access to S7. Wondering how long it takes to build that tunnel.


----------



## Dantiscum

from the GDDKiA's facebok site


----------



## erykko

S12/S17 route (section from Piaski to Lublin). Not finished yet, speed limits are temporary.


----------



## Luki_SL

2012 - summary:

- over *700km* of new motorways and expressways completed
- *1365,8km *- motorways in use, 
- *1067,4km* - expressways in use.

Source : GDDKiA


----------



## toonczyk

In a few weeks there should be preliminary data regarding road traffic casualties, but for sure 2012 will have been the best year since 1960's in terms of number of people killed on our roads, I estimate it's gonna be somewhere between 3500 and 3600. Just for comparison, in 2011 there have been 4189 deaths, in 2004 - 5712, in 1997 - 7311, the worst year in our history was 1991 when 7901 people were killed in road accidents. Obviously there are many factors in play, but I think this progress is mostly due to new roads and safety improvements to the old ones. I hope this trend will continue and 2013 will be even safer than 2012.


----------



## mcarling

Luki_SL said:


> 2012 - summary:
> 
> - over *700km* of new motorways and expressways completed
> - *1365,8km *- motorways in use,
> - *1067,4km* - expressways in use.


That means about 30% of all motorways and expressways in Poland were opened in 2012. Amazing.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^There won`t be better year with completed roads (motorways&expressways) than 2012.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Just organize the next football world cup in towns not served by motorways


----------



## michael_siberia

And finance stadiums in those cities


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## salto_angel

ChrisZwolle said:


> Just organize the next football world cup in towns not served by motorways


2020 final in Suwałki?


----------



## geogregor

salto_angel said:


> 2020 final in Suwałki?


Better Suwalki than Qatar, but that's in 2022


----------



## Beck's

toonczyk said:


> In a few weeks there should be preliminary data regarding road traffic casualties, but for sure 2012 will have been the best year since 1960's in terms of number of people killed on our roads, I estimate it's gonna be somewhere between 3500 and 3600. Just for comparison, in 2011 there have been 4189 deaths, in 2004 - 5712, in 1997 - 7311, the worst year in our history was 1991 when 7901 people were killed in road accidents. Obviously there are many factors in play, but I think this progress is mostly due to new roads and safety improvements to the old ones. I hope this trend will continue and 2013 will be even safer than 2012.


Despite the fact that the number of vehicles has increased a lot since 1991


----------



## metacatfry

http://stadiony.klszarak.org/scc_a_s.swf

I think this was once linked in this thread but I'm not sure, it is a very pedagogical tool showing motorway openings for each separate year, click on any given year and existing roads for that year show up in green, inaugurations for that year show in red.
It is clear that, even if many planned openings didn't occur, 2012 still represents a veritable explosion in roads compared with any other time.


----------



## rav00

toonczyk said:


> In a few weeks there should be preliminary data regarding road traffic casualties, but for sure 2012 will have been the best year since 1960's in terms of number of people killed on our roads, I estimate it's gonna be somewhere between 3500 and 3600. Just for comparison, in 2011 there have been 4189 deaths, in 2004 - 5712, in 1997 - 7311, the worst year in our history was 1991 when 7901 people were killed in road accidents. Obviously there are many factors in play, but I think this progress is mostly due to new roads and safety improvements to the old ones. I hope this trend will continue and 2013 will be even safer than 2012.


So it has begun... I've already heard policeman on tv saying that because of so many new speed cameras and 'stealth-speedcamera-enabled-vehicles' we can observe this dramatic drop in deaths on the roads in 2012. TV presenter was kind enough to point out that we also had some major road openings last year, but never said that it was a THIRD of total A/S roads in PL. :>


----------



## mr.cool

A1 Styrkow - Tuszyn 40km (East of Lodz) connecting the A1 North and S8 Wroclaw-Warsaw has been granted permission to start buliding the motorway. Full works should take place end of Feb, due to improving weather conditions and the motorway should be completed in June 2014. Good news! Let's hope it's completed on time...

Pics from the Polish forum:

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/4372/dsc00059wb.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img17/4506/dscn8782k.jpg

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/1703/fscn8668.jpg

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5641/fscn8669.jpg

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/1245/fscn8670.jpg

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2463/fscn8671.jpg

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/9338/fscn8672.jpg

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/6582/fscn8677.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2694/fscn8679.jpg

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/3151/fscn8682.jpg

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/8030/fscn8685.jpg


----------



## mcarling

The latest map shows the S61 under construction between Suwalki and Raczki with completion indicated for September 2014. I'm guessing that the contract has been signed but groundbreaking hasn't yet occurred. I guess groundbreaking awaits spring weather. Is that right?


----------



## Luki_SL

^^It depends on weather conditions. The construction works should start immediately.


----------



## MichiH

mcarling said:


> The latest map


What does the legend mean?

green = completed
red = u/c
purple = ?
yellow = ?

The yellow A4 section is u/c, isn't it?


----------



## toonczyk

MichiH said:


> What does the legend mean?
> 
> green = completed
> red = u/c
> purple = ?
> yellow = ?
> 
> The yellow A4 section is u/c, isn't it?


Yellow = tender
Purple = design and build contract, design phase
Brown/orange = design and build tender
Blue = environmental impact assessed

Yellow sections of A4 are the ones where previous contractors have been sacked, new contracts are not signed yet.


----------



## Qracz3k

del


----------



## Orionol

When will the Autostrada A18 be build or when will anything happen to A18? I drove there last year and this road is in a critical condition. It is truly one of Poland's worst roads!!! hno:

It gives people a bad thought of Polish roads, when they enter Poland from Germany.


----------



## mcarling

Orionol said:


> When will the Autostrada A18 be build or when will anything happen to A18? I drove there last year and this road is in a critical condition.


One of the A18's carriageways is fine and the other is in deplorable condition. It is on the reserve list for the 2014-2020 budget cycle, so whether or not the A18's bad carriageway will be built before 2020 depends on how much money will be allocated by the EU to Poland for road construction.


----------



## Orionol

mcarling said:


> One of the A18's carriageways is fine and the other is in deplorable condition. It is on the reserve list for the 2014-2020 budget cycle, so whether or not the A18's bad carriageway will be built before 2020 depends on how much money will be allocated by the EU to Poland for road construction.


But it is a important road, am I right?
It connects Northern Germany + Berlin + Denmark to Southern Poland?


----------



## Sponsor

I'd say there are more important to be done. The AADT is not a high one there.


----------



## Janek0

Sunfuns said:


> My apologies if this was already discussed 200 pages ago, but I've just noticed that there is no full motorway in existence or in construction between Warsaw and Krakow, the two biggest cities in Poland. Why is that? Is there perhaps a good expressway on that route already?


Some people take 8-S8-1-S1-A4, which is 2x2 all way.

http://www.google.com/maps?saddr=warszawa&daddr=51.0633556,19.3632701+to:kraków&via=1


----------



## geogregor

Nikodem said:


> What about last part of A4, Radymno-Korczowa section? I guess 22km of this section is much more expensive than putting new pavement on 1 line of A18. If you ask me, which motorway should have higher priority I would say definitly A18.


Good point.


----------



## mcarling

The eastbound carriageway of the A18 does not need re-paving. No part of the existing carriageway is realistically re-usable. It needs to be completely reconstructed _de novo_.


----------



## Blackraven

The average driving time between Warsaw and Katowice is around four hours, correct?

=)


----------



## kamilost

Around three. http://mapa.targeo.pl/Warszawa_Katowice,27,20.2542700,51.2892000?l=5b440d92efbbf262


----------



## UPR20

If you are not taking any breaks it is 3 hours during the night and around 3 hours 45 minutes during the day.


----------



## mcarling

It takes me three hours during the day to reach the A1/A4 intersection, but I drive faster than the average driver.


----------



## Luki_SL

http://www.viatoll.pl/en/heavy-vehi...d-sections-are-included-in-the-viatoll-system



> From 12 January new road sections are included in the viaTOLL system
> 
> We kindly notify you that from 12 January 2013 the electronic toll collection system viaTOLL will be effective on six new sections of toll roads. In accordance with the regulation of the Council of Ministers the expansion will include about 139.2 km of roads.
> 
> The A1 motorway on the sections:
> 
> Pyrzowice node – Sośnica node (43.7 km),
> Kotlińska node – Stryków I node (39.3 km).
> 
> The S1 expressway on the section:
> 
> Pyrzowice node – Lotnisko node (1.9 km).
> 
> The S8 expressway on the sections:
> 
> Pawłowice node – Dąbrowa node (22.1 km),
> Cieśle node – Syców-Wschód node (25.1 km),
> Modlińska node – Piłsudskiego node (7.1 km).
> 
> Vehicles or combination vehicles with MPW > 3.5 tonnes will be subject to toll.
> 
> Detailed information about new toll road sections is presented on the map below.


----------



## Chris80678

So the on 16th Jan 2013 works on the S17 between the Piaski bypass and Lublin Witosa are finally supposed to stop and the road officially becomes an expressway. Its a pity we won't see the S2 Konotopa - Lotnisko and S79 open on the same day (I can't see these two roads opening before April as without the S2 the S79 is a useless road really)


----------



## Biesiada

Two interesting pieces of statistics released by police for the year 2012 compared to 2011

- number of stolen cars 15 424 (out of 17 mln registered), -5.4 %
- deaths on roads 3520 (1138 were pedestrians), -16 %


----------



## mcarling

Chris80678 said:


> Its a pity we won't see the S2 Konotopa - Lotnisko and S79 open on the same day (I can't see these two roads opening before April as without the S2 the S79 is a useless road really)


As far as I know, the plan seems to be to open these in June.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Biesiada said:


> - number of stolen cars 15 424 (out of 17 mln registered), -5.4 %


So you have more chance of getting your car stolen in the Netherlands than in Poland. In the Netherlands there were 11 658 cars stolen (out of 9 million registered) in 2011. One out of every 772 cars is stolen in the Netherlands. This is one out of 1102 in Poland.


----------



## toonczyk

^^ I wonder what's the rate of stolen car "recycling" - how many cars stolen in Poland have been previously stolen from Netherlands and sold in Poland


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Car ownership in Poland also passed the Netherlands in 2011.

2011 car ownership per 1000 inhabitants, including both the highest and lowest in Europe as a reference;

* Luxembourg: 657
* Poland: 474
* Netherlands: 467
* Moldova: 39


----------



## Biesiada

In Warsaw the most stolen cars are Honda Accord, Honda CRV, Toyota Corolla, Toyota Yaris, Mazdas. (no single Citroen, Jeep and Jaguar was stolen in 2010!)
But in the rest of Poland Volksvagen and its subsidiaries like Skoda and Seat are the most stolen cars. The smallest probability of a car theft is when you own korean car makes.
In Silesia and surroundings ( the second after Warsaw in the number of car thefts) most stolen are french makes which are barely toutched in the rest of the country.


----------



## Beck's

ChrisZwolle said:


> Car ownership in Poland also passed the Netherlands in 2011.
> 
> 2011 car ownership per 1000 inhabitants, including both the highest and lowest in Europe as a reference;
> 
> * Luxembourg: 657
> * Poland: 474
> * Netherlands: 467
> * Moldova: 39


What's the age of a car in Netherland? In Poland is around 10 years or even more.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The average age of a car licensed in the Netherlands was 8.6 years in 2010. It has been steadily increasing since 2000.


----------



## keokiracer

Biesiada said:


> In Warsaw the most stolen cars are Honda Accord


OK, not going to Warsaw then


----------



## and802

ChrisZwolle said:


> Car ownership in Poland also passed the Netherlands in 2011.
> 
> 2011 car ownership per 1000 inhabitants, including both the highest and lowest in Europe as a reference;
> 
> * Luxembourg: 657
> * Poland: 474
> * Netherlands: 467
> * Moldova: 39


and how about bicycles ?


----------



## mappero

ChrisZwolle said:


> Long-distance traffic can avoid A18 quite easily by taking A14 south from Magdeburg and then take A4 east via Dresden into Poland. It's approximately 30 kilometers longer, and Google Maps even suggest this route as their primary route between Hannover and Wrocław.
> 
> However I do agree that renovating DK18 eastbound should be a higher priority. Having a road in that condition is unacceptable, even if it carries little traffic. Unfortunately repairing concrete pavement over a distance of 70 kilometers or so is quite expensive.


Since A4 (Zgorzelec - Krzyzowa) is open me and all me friends living, working, studding in D, NL, B, DK always drive via Dresden to Poland. Because of this horribly bad stretch of eastbound A18. On the way back (west direction) via A18


----------



## rav00

http://forsal.pl/grafika/582619,88606,polski_rynek_samochodow_dogonil_srednia_unijna.html










1st chart - cars per 1000 citizens
2nd chart - average age of a car

no Netherlands in this chart though...


----------



## bleetz

Here's the full list of vehicles per capita:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita

The Netherlands still come out on top of Poland based on that list, though the data there is from 2008 and 2009 so now it might not be the case any more.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That list is useless because it includes commercial vehicles such as heavy trucks.


----------



## Superkot634

ChrisZwolle said:


> Thousands of kilometers of national and voievodeship roads in Poland have been renovated in the past 6 - 7 years. But not DK18, which is an important route for long-distance traffic (i.e. economic priority) which condition is currently so bad it could damage your vehicle. It's not just a few potholes here and there but it's a circa 70 kilometer stretch of road that is in very poor condition.
> 
> All in all, this road is the absolute shame of the European Union and cannot be compared to some poor rural roads with little traffic, it's one of the main entrance roads to Poland.


Indeed. Currently, 60% of national roads is reportedly in good condition. However, I do not know whether this is a good result. There are roads that are in a similar state as the DK18.


----------



## Beck's

As I have mentioned many times 60% good national roads is quite a good result. However we feel that is not enough for us and we expect more(in my opinion even around 75% and I hope we'll achieve at the end of this decade).


----------



## rakcancer

Everything is going in right direction. No needs to complain. Sooner or later we are going to catch up with the rest of the Western Europe


----------



## LMB

rakcancer said:


> Everything is going in right direction. No needs to complain. Sooner or later we are going to catch up with the rest of the Western Europe


It's construction time again for Polish roads ;-)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Has S12/S17 Lublin - Piaski already gotten expressway standards?


----------



## Haveblue

No ... still pending


----------



## rakcancer

LMB said:


> It's construction time again for Polish roads ;-)





GDDKiA is plannining to build southern part of Warsaw ring (S2) and close whole Warsaw ring by building S17 (Eastern part) by 2020. Estimated cost of 20 km of S2 - 6 billions ZL (1.4 bln Euro). Estimated cost of S2 + S17: 18 billions ZL (4.4 bln Euro).
Source: http://warszawa.gazeta.pl/warszawa/...dow_zl_na_obwodnice__Ruszaja_konsultacje.html



Planned S2 - red
S2 under construction - green


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## mcarling

^^
Is the dashed red line at the right a planned section of the A2?


----------



## Luki_SL

^^Yes, it`s motorway A2 towards Minsk Mazowiecki/Siedlce.


----------



## Vanaheim

rakcancer said:


> Estimated cost of 20 km of S2 - 6 billions ZL (1.4 bln Euro). Estimated cost of S2 + S17: 18 billions ZL (4.4 bln Euro).


S17 more expensive than S2??? I understand from the article that 18 billions is the cost of the whole ring (including plot cost).


----------



## rakcancer

It looks like.... They also have to re-route S17 because of some species of fish lives in pond which is on the way of originally planned S17...


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

TheFlyPL said:


> 200 thousands. One zero less.


I mean the metro area, maybe its 1 million I can't remember, still a large %.


----------



## Urbanista1

metro Warsaw about 3 million, region about 4.5


----------



## keokiracer

According to wikipedia 1,708,491 in the city itself and 2,666,278 people in the metro area.


----------



## Chris80678

Has S12/S17 Lublin - Piaski already gotten expressway standards? No ... still pending 
__________________

Wonder what the delay is? The road was precited to be finished by Wed 16th Jan 2013


----------



## Haveblue

and it is finished (just minor snagging remaining) ... the only thing left is a series of audits that must be carried by both road and European agencies to receive final authorization and official express way standard.

Now, there is this small question: how many audits this road must go through to receive final authorization? 

Answer: three

hno:


----------



## mcarling

Haveblue said:


> how many audits this road must go through to receive final authorization?
> 
> Answer: three


Only three? Really?

I guess that might be one Polish safety audit, one Polish financial audit, and one EU financial audit.


----------



## makaveli6

Can someone post the latest map of U/C and finished roads in Poland?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl


----------



## makaveli6

I guess red one's are U/C?


----------



## PhirgataZFs1694

makaveli6 said:


> I guess red one's are U/C?


Red - U/C
Pink - under technical design
Yellow - tender for construction
Orange - tender for technical design
Blue - environment impact

Is the massive environment impact assesment a way of avoiding NIMBies and ecological organizations consolidation?:lol:


----------



## makaveli6

Thanks, I will be taking a trip to Poland this summer from Riga. A friend of my family wants to see some castles (dont remember the names) and some concentration camps. AFAIK it's not far from Warszaw, what would be the best route to use?


----------



## rav00

Depends which camp - the closest to Warsaw is Treblinka, but the most known - Auschwitz.
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plik:Konzentrazionslager.png

As for driving from Riga to Warsaw, take roads 8-61-8 through Suwalki, Augustow, Grajewo, Zambrow, Ostrow Mazowiecka.


----------



## makaveli6

Thanks for the info!


----------



## RipleyLV

S61 South of Suwałki is really now U/C?


----------



## PLH

Yep, starting December 28th, including Augustów bypass (1x2, grade-separated)


----------



## RipleyLV

Good, good. Has Augustów bypass location changed a bit?


----------



## PLH

Even more than that:


----------



## mcarling

RipleyLV said:


> S61 South of Suwałki is really now U/C?


Sure. Why would the S61 _not_ be under construction? It's not the most important road project in Poland, but it is an important project.


----------



## RipleyLV

PLH said:


> Even more than that:
> http://i.imgur.com/OuJzi.jpg


Aha, so that's how it will look like. I thought that why S61 ends in the middle of nowhere.., this bypass plan now gives more sense. Thanks!



mcarling said:


> Sure. Why would the S61 _not_ be under construction? It's not the most important road project in Poland, but it is an important project.


I'm glad that it's finally U/C! It was unexpected to see all of a sudden that stretch marked as red in 'siskom' map, hopefully works will start on Suwałki bypass and the rest soon!


----------



## Sasza

^^
It will not. Suwalki's bypass is planned for 2015/2020+. The funny thing is that Augustow bypass and Suwalki bypass are one project but some genious split them into two. And now Augustow bypass will end in middle of nowhere.


----------



## MichiH

Sasza said:


> It will not. Suwalki's bypass is planned for 2015/2020+. The funny thing is that Augustow bypass and Suwalki bypass are one project but some genious split them into two. And now Augustow bypass will end in middle of nowhere.


There is an interchange at the end of the current section near Raczki. Will there be a temporary connection to an other road?

Even when the Augustow bypass will be completed, the road to south-west also will end in the middle of nowhere. There is no overfly for the main direction from north-west to south. Why is here such an interchange? Where does the south-west road go to?


----------



## RipleyLV

I think this current S61 U/C stretch is counted more as Augustów bypass project, rather Suwałki. IMO it's an alternative version of the bypass to the one blocked by greenies in 2007. Either way, when these both roads will get built, heavy transport flow will be redirected to these new routes and taking current DK8 route will be prohibited. So this one is pretty much being built for truck transit reasons.


----------



## OulaL

Interesting. Is this the route that is supposed to be used when driving from Lithuania to Warsaw?

At least in that map, the stretch south of Suwalki seems to end in "nowhere"...

The road 8 via Bialystok, although longer, has more dual-carriage roads and is therefor more convenient, I think.


----------



## Sasza

MichiH said:


> There is an interchange at the end of the current section near Raczki. Will there be a temporary connection to an other road?
> 
> Even when the Augustow bypass will be completed, the road to south-west also will end in the middle of nowhere. There is no overfly for the main direction from north-west to south. Why is here such an interchange? Where does the south-west road go to?


President of Suwalki protested against not building Suwalki's bypass in near future and said that he won't let to build that connector and the city will block itself to vehicles above 3,5t.


----------



## MichiH

Sasza said:


> President of Suwalki protested against not building Suwalki's bypass in near future and said that he won't let to build that connector and the city will block itself to vehicles above 3,5t.


Which connector? A temporary one?


----------



## mcarling

Sasza said:


> President of Suwalki protested against not building Suwalki's bypass in near future and said that he won't let to build that connector and the city will block itself to vehicles above 3,5t.


Hmmm. Suwalki would block deliveries of food to Suwalki? I don't think that would work for very long.


----------



## Chris80678

Haveblue said:


> clearly, S17 and S7 must be deemed a priority for next budgeting outlook


Yeah, Warsaw eastern bypass (S17) and the missing sections of the S7 between Gdańsk and Warsaw


----------



## Haveblue

well, actually i meant southern part of S7 (south of Warsaw) and entire S17 that is missing between Warsaw and Lublin ... this is at least what comes out of those maps


----------



## rakcancer

I would add S5 Wroclaw - Poznan - Bydgoszcz - A1


----------



## rakcancer

Also, it looks like Bialystok - Suwalki road is going to have more importance over Zambrow-Lomza-Suwalki S61


----------



## Haveblue

What doesen't change the fact that S7 an S17 are the main links that suffer enormous trafic.


----------



## mcarling

The AADT projections shown on this map look like they were dreamed up by a student intern who overdosed on LSD. A2 Warsaw - Lodz: 12,000 to 16,000. That's so far from plausible that I can't take any part of the map seriously.


----------



## LMB

mcarling said:


> The AADT projections shown on this map look like they were dreamed up by a student intern who overdosed on LSD.


You can't overdose LSD :nuts: :lol:


----------



## Piekarz

mcarling said:


> The AADT projections shown on this map look like they were dreamed up by a student intern who overdosed on LSD. A2 Warsaw - Lodz: 12,000 to 16,000. That's so far from plausible that I can't take any part of the map seriously.


You should add those figures to obtain the full number of both directions. It will be from 24,000 to 32,000 (it is mentioned on the map).


----------



## Niemiec w Polsce

Here is plan of Lodz with future highways, expressways and new GP-class roads and all new train connections for the regional agglomoration train system and the new tunnel underneath the city for the highspeed train. Looks quiet ambitious. Don't know if all those projects which has been not started yet will be realized and in what time.

http://www.mpu.lodz.pl/page/file.php?id=270


----------



## Niemiec w Polsce

Here is a future plan for investements with the new EU budget. It's quiet surprising that they consider the complete S6 from Szczeczin to Gdansk which is not a crowded road at all.


----------



## cinxxx

Hi there, I'm thinking of making a detour on the return trip to Ingolstadt from my hometown, Timisoara, this will happen in the second half of May. Main destinations would be Kosice (european cultural capital in 2013), Krakow and Auschwitz.

I made this quick plan, what do you think of it?

http://goo.gl/maps/4KUT0

Another plan could be to drive through CZ after Krakow and stop in Cesky Krumlov...


----------



## rakcancer

Niemiec w Polsce said:


> Here is a future plan for investements with the new EU budget. It's quiet surprising that they consider the complete S6 from Szczeczin to Gdansk which is not a crowded road at all.


A18 ! :applause: finally that shame of Europe may go to history
S6 doesn't look important at the moment but actually after completing all above projects it would be the next in line to be constructed except few shorter and more crowded roads like Bialystok-Suwalki, Bydgoszcz - Torun - Plonsk or Poznan - Ostrow Wlkp - S8 which suprasingly has pretty high traffic volume.


----------



## Haveblue

S6 gets priority only because of political reasons. There is no justification for building this route ... though there was a time when it had greater priority than Lublin's S17/S19/S12 bypass ... crazy stuff but this is the world that we are leaving in.


----------



## rakcancer

What political reasons? If there is money for that why not to build it after other projects from the list? Lublin is not the center of universe either... S17 basically solve most of the problems of that city.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Agreed. Gdańsk and Szczecin are the 6th and 7th largest cities of Poland, it's only naturally to connect them with a motorway or motorway-like expressway. In addition, Gdynia, Koszalin and Słupsk are the 12th, 38th and 41st largest cities of Poland which will also be connected by S6.


----------



## toonczyk

rakcancer said:


> *If there is money for that* why not to build it after other projects from the list?


The whole problem here is that there isn't money for that. Our government is pushing for S6 as a priority and there is no reason for it to be one. Obviously nobody is saying this road should not be built, it's just a matter of admitting (and the government is not willing to do so) that roads like S5, S7 or S17 are much more important right now.


----------



## Haveblue

rakcancer said:


> What political reasons? If there is money for that why not to build it after other projects from the list? Lublin is not the center of universe either... S17 basically solve most of the problems of that city.


I’ll give you full picture on this by bringing just a single example:

Back in 2010 there was a list of new road construction plan (so called Appendix 1) and reserve list of new roads that may be build, should savings be found (so called Appendix 1a). S6 was identified as a priority in Appendix 1, despite the fact that it was missing such basic document as environmental consent ... whereas Lublin bypass and S17 Warsaw-Lublin were allocated in Appendix 1a ... and yes, the latter had environmental decision 

Now please bear in mind that S17 is unreasonably overcrowded and therefore is considered to *be one of two most dangerous routes in Poland*, whereas DK6 is somewhere at the bottom of this list 

This situation for obvious (but unknown to us  ) reasons continues throughout the years.


----------



## rakcancer

I don't get it. What is the whole argument about? Both S17 and S6 are on the list of next EU budget, neither of them is excluded. Moreover S17 is under construction right now and some parts are already finished while S6 need to be build from scratch.... Once again: what are we arguing here about?


----------



## toonczyk

rakcancer said:


> Both S17 and S6 are on the list of next EU budget, neither of them is excluded.


This list is meaningless, we're waiting for Ministry of Transport to publish a new strategy for road investments in 2014-2020 budget. What the fuss is about is that their previous arguments and current hints we get make us believe, that they will be pushing S6 as one of the priorities and this could mean for example S17 will be pushed to a reserve list, as the funds are obviously limited. All we're asking for are clear and logical rules of assigning funds for projects. Ministry of Transport is still unable to explain why exactly they believe S6 is more important than let's say S10.


----------



## Haveblue

another words: forget about EU list, because local Ministry of Transport has it's own, which is _*better*_ 

back on this list there is:

- S6 with much higher priority and very limited reasoning for it (road congestion, road safety, paperwork preparedness)
- S17 that is less important from the mentioned S6 but equally suffers from extreme road congestion and very poor safety (because of this congestion)

… got the drift?


----------



## mcarling

Haveblue said:


> another words: forget about EU list, because local Ministry of Transport has it's own, which is _*better*_


The member states normally build any road which the EU is willing to fund (85% of the total). Until the EU has decided, none of these lists mean very much.


----------



## Haveblue

sure ... but EU approves the whole lot and then it gets back to the country where the list is being rescheduled again (within the approved extent)


----------



## mcarling

Haveblue said:


> sure ... but EU approves the whole lot ....


Not always. The Commission looks rather carefully at which projects make sense -- from a european rather than a national perspective.


----------



## Haveblue

Ok, then most definetly this "not allways" refers to Poland. Please review last budgeting perspective and especially projections vs completed


----------



## mcarling

The member states are required to justify every road funding request. One of the things the Commission is cognizant of and on the look out for is the possibility of a powerful national politician trying to direct money to his local constituency ("pork barrel" politics). I have no doubt the Commission has been asking tough questions about the S6.

The Commission is also cognizant of the member states' tendency to prefer improved connections within a member state to improved connections between member states. For example, the A1/D1 PL/CZ connection was not a high priority of either PL or CZ. It was built because the Commission made it a priority and PL and CZ were happy to build it for 15% of cost -- after failing to convince the Commission to let them have the same money for purely domestic projects.

Similarly, I would not be surprised if the Commission is pushing to fund the S61 and S69. Perhaps even the S8 Wroclaw - Klodzko.


----------



## ka__zet

toonczyk said:


> All we're asking for are clear and logical rules of assigning funds for projects. Ministry of Transport is still unable to explain why exactly they believe S6 is more important than let's say S10.


S10 on the route Bydgoszcz-Toruń is not important at all. It is a source of great wonder to me why it is considered before 2020 at all, the especially as virtually no preparation work is done.


----------



## toonczyk

ka__zet said:


> It is a source of great wonder to me why it is considered before 2020 at all


Is it?


----------



## Luki_SL

> *EU freezes €4bn of Polish funds in fraud case
> *
> *BRUSSELS - The European Commission has blocked over €4 billion of money for Polish roads, causing dismay in the run-up to an EU budget summit next week.*
> 
> It took the decision after the Polish prosecutor accused 11 people - 10 of them CEOs of large construction firms and one of them a director in Poland's road agency, the GDDKiA - of colluding to fix prices for tenders for EU-co-funded projects.
> 
> The frozen money concerns €4 billion of unspent Polish allocations from the EU's 2007 to 2013 budget in the "infrastructure & environment" programme.
> 
> The commission is also freezing €382 million of unspent Polish funds in its "development eastern Poland" programme.
> 
> It said in a statement to press on Wednesday (30 January) that in order to get the money flowing again, Poland must "undertake a wide-ranging control/audit to establish the scope of potential irregularities and risk of other projects having been affected."
> 
> It noted: "Where and if irregularities are detected, the Polish authorities should make financial corrections and withdraw the irregular expenditure from payment claims to the commission."
> 
> It added, using capital letters: "The commission has ZERO TOLERANCE when it comes to to fraud."
> 
> Its decision prompted stinging rebukes from the Polish side.
> 
> Poland's regional development ministry called it "absolutely unreasonable" in its statement on Wednesday.
> 
> The deputy minister for regional development, Adam Zdzieblo, called it "sudden and without justification." He added: "We believe the European Commission will withdraw it as quickly as possible."
> 
> The minister herself, Elzbieta Bienkowska, told Polish radio: "The Polish system of project selection, the choice of contractors, is absolutely just and it is Poland which is the injured party in this case [of alleged collusion]."
> 
> The furore comes ahead of next week's EU summit, where Polish leader Donald Tusk will try to persuade EU paymasters - Germany, the UK and the Netherlands - to give more money for eastern Europe in the 2014 to 2020 EU budget period.
> 
> Some Polish diplomats are quietly dismayed about the timing of the revelation.
> 
> But for her part, commission spokeswoman Shirin Wheeler, said the timing has nothing to do with Brussels.
> 
> She noted that Poland was initially notified in a letter on 21 December and that the problem hit the Polish headlines only today "probably because someone on the Polish side decided to speak to media."
> 
> She added that Poland is normally "a model of good spending," but the fact that one of the accused people is a GDDKiA director poses questions on how far the rot has spread.
> 
> "We would not be fulfilling our responsibility to Polish taxpayers and to other taxpayers if we did not seek reassurances," she told EUobserver.


http://euobserver.com/economic/118897


----------



## mcarling

^^
Requiring Poland to conduct an audit before releasing the funds seems entirely reasonable.


----------



## ka__zet

toonczyk said:


> Is it?


S10 shows up in ministry papers and Nowak speeches from time to time. And then disappears, and reappears.


----------



## rakcancer

Luki_SL said:


> http://euobserver.com/economic/118897


Don't get it. Polish prosecutors work as they should. They find out about price fixing, arrest accused then Poland is punished by EU.... Would be better if nobody knew about price fixing? It looks like better not be so efficient in frauds finding. EU Commission doesn't like it. :nono:


----------



## metacatfry

I think the article has it wrong that the unfreezing of the funds is dependent on the carrying out of an audit. It is my understanding that the funds have been frozen until clarification as to the guilt of these 11 persons has been obtained. IF the courts find them guilty the commission will take a decision then.


----------



## Haveblue

I cannot shake off the impression that those guys in EU got no idea of the consequences of freezing the funds. I just hope that they will be released back again very soon and the case sorted out on political level.


----------



## Surel

mcarling said:


> The member states are required to justify every road funding request. One of the things the Commission is cognizant of and on the look out for is the possibility of a powerful national politician trying to direct money to his local constituency ("pork barrel" politics). I have no doubt the Commission has been asking tough questions about the S6.
> 
> The Commission is also cognizant of the member states' tendency to prefer improved connections within a member state to improved connections between member states. For example, the A1/D1 PL/CZ connection was not a high priority of either PL or CZ. It was built because the Commission made it a priority and PL and CZ were happy to build it for 15% of cost -- after failing to convince the Commission to let them have the same money for purely domestic projects.
> 
> Similarly, I would not be surprised if the Commission is pushing to fund the S61 and S69. Perhaps even the S8 Wroclaw - Klodzko.


The motorway D1 in the Czech Republic received only 10 % of the funds from the EU, and this was yet not through the standard 5 year scheme. In general EU money in the CZ are poorly managed and don't constitute serious push for construction. Only fraction of the available money is used and from that some money are not received because of the problems with finished projects (i.e. audit, excess costs, etc).


----------



## mcarling

rakcancer said:


> Don't get it. Polish prosecutors work as they should. They find out about price fixing, arrest accused then Poland is punished by EU.... Would be better if nobody knew about price fixing? It looks like better not be so efficient in frauds finding. EU Commission doesn't like it. :nono:


There are many historical examples in Europe (and elsewhere) of prosecutors prosecuting innocent persons (sometimes deliberately and sometimes accidentally) and not prosecuting guilty persons. The Commission reasonably, in my opinion, wants to be assured that the guilty persons in government have been found. This is not a punishment. If no other guilty persons are found in the government, then the Commission will push for more funding for Poland in the future. The Commission is quite careful to not provide unintended incentives to the member states to cover up corruption.


----------



## Haveblue

oh really?! ... and I (naive) thought that this is because of the next EU (2014 - 2020) budget negotiations ... :nuts:


----------



## geogregor

Haveblue said:


> oh really?! ... and I (naive) thought that this is because of the next EU (2014 - 2020) budget negotiations ... :nuts:


Usually I'm not signing up to conspiracy theories but in this case I can't see another explanation.
Polish prosecutors do good job and as a reward EU freezes founds. Next time we simply shouldn't bother with investigating, just keep things quiet.


----------



## metacatfry

the recent prosecutions are not the only reason the funds were frozen. An inquiry has been going on since 2010 and the Commission is worried that it is dragging on longer than it should.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Hmm, I don't get it. The Polish road projects are usually lauded for being among the least corrupt in Europe. And price-fixing? Virtually all tenders are significantly below the projected cost.


----------



## toonczyk

^^ That's one of the funniest parts of this whole situation, some high level people from major construction companies are going to jail for fixing prices and it turns out they weren't even successful. For example they fixed price for S8 Piotrków Trybunalski - Rawa Mazowiecka, but then unexpectedly Astaldi came in and took the contract.


----------



## panda80

cinxxx said:


> What would you recommend from Krakow to Kosice? Must not be the fastest, but also maybe picturesque, but not heavy damaged road.
> 
> Goole Maps gives me these two options:
> 1. http://goo.gl/maps/XHLju
> 2. http://goo.gl/maps/utaeL
> 
> But I was also thinking about one of these:
> 3. http://goo.gl/maps/ilqbY
> 4. http://goo.gl/maps/GUPiF, here Google Maps seems to have problems routing over the border
> 5. http://goo.gl/maps/LwmTY


I drove the first one, road quite ok, but not very picturesque. Just 10-15km immediately after you enter Poland the road is just 1 lane for both direction, but the traffic is not big at all.

However if you want a more scenic drive I would recommend 3 or 4. You could visit the nice medieval town of Levoca, Spis Castle and Tatra mountains. And roads are good I think, with expressway or motorways sections.


----------



## mr.cool

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/eu-budget-deal-positive-for-polands-rating---moodys-20130214-00056#.URz50lfDW40

WARSAW--Last week's compromise on the European Union's multi-year budget is positive for Poland's credit rating as the country managed to secure an increase in funding, rating agency Moody's said Thursday.

Despite overall EU budget cuts for years 2014-20, Poland was awarded a slight increase in EU funding, with 72.9 billion euros ($98.1 billion) earmarked for structural funds and EUR28.5 billion in funding for its agriculture sector.

"The increase in EU financing is credit positive because it will support the Polish government's efforts to expand infrastructure investment in order to stimulate a slowing economy and boost long-term economic growth," Moody's wrote.



Now we know that Poland is very likely to receive this amount of money which can only mean great news for further construction developments and building a wider established road network. But at what time this year can we expect to announce how much will be allowed for motorways and expressways? I heard somewhere that Poland is likely to put the new budget more emphasis on railway development and less on building new roads. Is this accurate?


----------



## TranslatorPS

#205

Rumour is that the EU itself will be more keen to accept rail or other 'more eco' (trams, trolleybuses, perhaps electric buses) projects more than road projects, but I only heard this in relation to urban development, not intercity scale. However, I wouldn't be shocked if it applied to intercity as well. Then again, the Polish railway network is mostly in agony and only the core routes seem to be getting a decent look at them, so it may be a chance for the rest of the rail network.
Though, I personally wouldn't mind DK7 south of Radom finally getting a decent quality (not that isn't, but it's bloody popular nevertheless and a capacity raise would be nice) - 70km/h applies there for a vast majority of the route right now, whereas Sing it () would make it 120 probably. The equivalent railway route is also planned to get 120km/h before 2020, but seeing what the hell is going north of Radom, up to Warsaw, I really question that happening.


----------



## toonczyk

Signals we've been getting from Ministry of Regional Development (which deals with EU funds) could hint that still a large portion of cohesion funds will be used for road investments, the change being that they'll only be used for large, interregional (or even international) projects. So basically no more EU funds for local roads, just for motorways and expressways. But how much exactly will be spent on roads and how much on rail infrastructure is still not decided. Things should clear up before summer I suppose.


----------



## Chris80678

What is the likelihood of the S2 between Konotopa (A2) and Pulawska together with the S79 opening in June 2013? Without the S2 being finished the S79 is somewhat of a useless route. Realistically once the huge amount of snow is gone and the Polish winter is over I could see them both opened to traffic in June


----------



## toonczyk

I'd say it's likely that S2 and S79 will be opened for traffic some time this summer. There isn't that much work left (except for Marynarska interchange on S79), if they hurry up they could easily finish it in 3-4 months. But there have been so many unpleasant surprises on those contracts so far, that I'd be very careful with predicting any opening dates... Anyway, the winter is slowly coming to an end, works on the most delayed parts have been progressing despite the weather, so I'm optimistic about early July opening.

In other news, finally the proposals in the tenders for two important parts of S8 in Warsaw (Raszyn bypass and the bridge over Vistula river) have been opened, so there is a chance the works will start in about 3 months. Best offers in both tenders are much lower than GDDKiA was willing to pay, somewhere around 60% of the expected price.


----------



## Chris80678

toonczyk said:


> I'd say it's likely that S2 and S79 will be opened for traffic some time this summer. There isn't that much work left (except for Marynarska interchange on S79), if they hurry up they could easily finish it in 3-4 months. But there have been so many unpleasant surprises on those contracts so far, that I'd be very careful with predicting any opening dates... Anyway, the winter is slowly coming to an end, works on the most delayed parts have been progressing despite the weather, so I'm optimistic about early July opening.
> 
> Thats great news :cheers: I look forward to seeing them both open in June or later on in the summer


----------



## kmieciu

*S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów _ 28.02.2013*

This stretch probably is going to be open on June 15, interchange Jordanowo maybe earlier in April.


WS02









WS02









South ^ ^ in background Interchange Jordanowo A2









North ^ ^ in background Interchange Jordanowo A2









WS17









WS17









WD18









WD18









WD24









S3 km 25+800


----------



## Strzala

*A4 highway Kraków-Tarnów* 26.02.2013(still under construction on few sections):






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzcYYPozdW0

Videos are accelerated 2,5x.


----------



## Chris80678

Wow by the looks of it Poland has had a lot of snow this year


----------



## ChrisZwolle

When will they mop up the remaining works on A4 Kraków - Tarnów?


----------



## ufonut

S12/17/19

Before










Now


----------



## Strzala

ufonut said:


> S12/17/19


It's only S12/S17 form Kurów to Bogucin near Lublin.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Really? You'd think it would run to Piaski.


----------



## Strzala

*S19 *will be only a part of Lublin bypass and will have the same route with S12 and S17 only from "Węzeł <intercharge> Dąbrowica" to "Węzeł Lubartów" on this picture :










Full route of S19:










S12/S17 [E372/E373]have the same route only on this section:










http://mapa.targeo.pl/Mapa_Polski,24,22.5011200,51.2712800?l=1759c37a636d2d36


----------



## mcarling

Where will the S19 cross the LT border?


----------



## Strzala

Sorry, this map is better:


----------



## Chris80678

It's only S12/S17 form Kurów to Bogucin near Lublin. 

When is this section supposed to be opened to traffic? I am sure that the full ring road around Lublin will be completed by next year


----------



## Luki_SL

mcarling said:


> Where will the S19 cross the LT border?


No, the S19 will cross the BY border.


----------



## Haveblue

Chris80678 said:


> It's only S12/S17 form Kurów to Bogucin near Lublin.
> 
> When is this section supposed to be opened to traffic? I am sure that the full ring road around Lublin will be completed by next year


We shall see. There are concerns around placed in service date as the general contractor is delaying works against the time schedule. Anyhow it is not that clear if originally agreed date will be kept.


----------



## dexter2

You might have some problems, but rather small. If you can, do not ask old people - english wasn't very popular in communist era.


----------



## kamilost

Blackraven said:


> able to survive [...] I'm screwed?


Rent a car with GPS, take this route http://goo.gl/maps/Th9Bj, avoid polar bears and you should be all fine.


----------



## mcarling

Blackraven said:


> As a possible foreign tourist, will I be able to survive driving in Poland (Warsaw<->Katowice) without knowing how to speak the Polish language?
> 
> ...
> 
> I.e. I'm referring to instances such as filling out rental car applications, asking directions from locals if any, dealing with police and people of authority, etc.....


If you'll be renting a car at WAW airport, you'll be fine in English. If you have any issues with the police, they should be able to find an officer who speaks some English. For buying fuel in a petrol station, English is sufficient. Asking for directions might be a challenge. I suggest using GPS or studying your routes in advance.


----------



## Beck's

Blackraven said:


> Now, I don't know as to how many people in Poland are capable of speaking the English language.......but if ever the language barrier is strong, does it mean that I'm screwed?


It depends on how old they are. Younger generation's English is defenitely better than older one, because as @Mcarling has already said older generation didn't use to learn English in communism time(only Russian, and rather basic).


----------



## rav00

And protip: a couple of words in local language always make people super kind and more eager to help.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, _kurwa_ is a good opening line, as some Poles taught me 10 years ago on a school exchange in Brzeg.


----------



## jeremiash

ChrisZwolle said:


> http://www.metropolitalna.pl/mapy.html
> 
> Will this road become part of S6 around Gdańsk?


It is uncertain what number will be assigned to this road, but in most sources it is stated that it will be S7. S6 (trasa Lęborska/Kaszubska) will come from the west towards Chwaszczyno, where it will meet up with OMT (S7) and should continue towards the current Tricity Beltway along what is currently DK 20, still as S6.


----------



## Dantiscum

ChrisZwolle said:


> http://www.metropolitalna.pl/mapy.html
> 
> Will this road become part of S6 around Gdańsk?


No, it will rather be S7 as it will be the extension of the southern bypass of Gdańsk starting from the Gdansk-South interchange


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yeah, _kurwa_ is a good opening line, as some Poles taught me 10 years ago on a school exchange in Brzeg.


For God's sake, please don't say it.


----------



## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yeah, _kurwa_ is a good opening line, as some Poles taught me 10 years ago on a school exchange in Brzeg.


It's an obscenity that means prostitute.


----------



## cinxxx

I think he already knew what it means :lol:


----------



## LMB

jeremiash said:


> ... will come from the west *towards Chwaszczyno *


With towns like that on your itinerary you will definitely have a problem :lol:. Carry a pen and paper.


----------



## jeremiash

Obviously that interchange shouldn't be called _ kreuz Chwaszczyno _, I was just trying to be geographically precise


----------



## Pascal20a

How it looks with the A4? What will soon be completed?


----------



## Strzala

S7 Kielce bypass under construction:






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgTYb529izI


----------



## ufonut

Tenders in 2013










It seems to be missing S8 (bypass of Marki) which will be announced next week perhaps ?


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

ufonut said:


> It seems to be missing S8 (bypass of Marki) which will be announced next week perhaps ?


The tender will be announced next week. Marki bypass was moved to appendix A1 of the National Road Construction Programme few months ago. 

The list above is covered by appendix no. 5.


----------



## Haveblue

DK17 is going to be covered by S17 at 100km strech. Nice


----------



## toonczyk

You should take those plans with a grain of salt, it's just a proposed plan, nothing official and definitive yet.


----------



## Haveblue

Yeah, we will see once it gets confirmed.


----------



## makaveli6

Thanks! More suggestions are welcome. Or someone Polish could direct me to Polish forums for more help.


----------



## william.pitt72

^^ For accomodation I find Booking.com quite effective.

You can search i.a. by distance/range from a given spot, and after selecting dates of stay, you can filter by price as well.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What is the status of S8 Adamowice - Radziejowice?


----------



## ufonut

Contract for S8 Opacz-Paszkow signed.


----------



## Surel

Any news on the A1 bridge in Mszana?


----------



## thompsongda

Surel said:


> Any news on the A1 bridge in Mszana?


They want to open it in august but that's (probably) not gonna happen.


----------



## mcarling

ufonut said:


> Contract for S8 Opacz-Paszkow signed.


I hope that will open before winter of late 2015.


----------



## cinxxx

Hello!

I am planning on arriving in Krakow on 9th of May, that's a Thursday and official free day in Germany. Didn't book an accommodation yet, have to see if I find any descent one with private parking, if not I will have to park somewhere, maybe you can help me with that.

Also on the way, I will pick up a friend from Wroclaw, can you please help me with a good parking garage?

Or you can redirect me to the Polish forum, I tried looking there, but I couldn't figure it out 

Thanks! :cheers2:


----------



## seszele

cinxxx said:


> Hello!
> 
> I am planning on arriving in Krakow on 9th of May, that's a Thursday and official free day in Germany. Didn't book an accommodation yet, have to see if I find any descent one with private parking, if not I will have to park somewhere, maybe you can help me with that.
> 
> Also on the way, I will pick up a friend from Wroclaw, can you please help me with a good parking garage?
> 
> Or you can redirect me to the Polish forum, I tried looking there, but I couldn't figure it out
> 
> Thanks! :cheers2:


what is your budget per night?


----------



## cinxxx

^^I have to speak with my friend, we would book a room for 3 persons. Did the same in Vienna, for 4 nights, for 260€. So, I would like it not to be (much) higher then 200 for the whole stay (so 70-80 for one night for 3 persons). It must not be super central. We have nothing against walking a few kilometers, or take a tram. Usually you find easier parking if not central.

Some tips, what to do, what not to do would be nice, in Krakow and in Poland in general.
It will be our first time visiting the country.


----------



## seszele

cinxxx said:


> ^^I have to speak with my friend, we would book a room for 3 persons. Did the same in Vienna, for 4 nights, for 260€. So, I would like it not to be (much) higher then 200 for the whole stay (so 70-80 for one night for 3 persons). It must not be super central. We have nothing against walking a few kilometers, or take a tram. Usually you find easier parking if not central.
> 
> Some tips, what to do, what not to do would be nice, in Krakow and in Poland in general.
> It will be our first time visiting the country.


it is somewhat high season already in Krakow that time so prices go up quickly comparing to April.

Also unlike some years ago, parking cars even on a street is quite safe.On the other hand city is packed with cars, so it may take a while to find a spot.also you need to look for "parkomat" excluding SAT and SU, all toher days you need to pay 10.00-18.00., about 70 cent /per hour.

Outside of the A, B zone parking is free on the street, so if you don't mind that I recommend:

http://www.booking.com/hotel/pl/apa...d=566516bc3b657d3b13264a08f5a1f6a48df48fe0X66

you may easily walk to oldtown on foot and it takes about 15minuts.

this one:
http://www.booking.com/hotel/pl/kaz...l?sid=403910c29168ecc0b0a4e86c114e7b32;dcid=1

is a bit over your budget, but exactly at former Jewish Kazimierz which is a fun to stay-lots of pubs and places to see as well.walking to old town's square is easy too.

In this area there are plenty of hostels and you may book room for 3 of you as well, not just beds.they are much cheaper of course, but still clean. don't worry about breakfast, you may have it every corner there, so the beer-especially in Kazimierz.. :cheers:
parking is not free in this area though..but there are several guarded parking places for ease of your mind 

that one is OK too:
http://www.booking.com/hotel/pl/eni...d=7283faddc02c1176fcf7d8da348bc7818a397900X19

you may find several nice apartments for this price also, there are plenty of them in Krakow..


for anything you'd like to know please ask with PM and I will try to advise you..enjoy your stay:cheers:


----------



## ufonut

cinxxx said:


> ^^I have to speak with my friend, we would book a room for 3 persons. Did the same in Vienna, for 4 nights, for 260€. So, I would like it not to be (much) higher then 200 for the whole stay (so 70-80 for one night for 3 persons). It must not be super central. We have nothing against walking a few kilometers, or take a tram. Usually you find easier parking if not central.
> 
> Some tips, what to do, what not to do would be nice, in Krakow and in Poland in general.
> It will be our first time visiting the country.


Try this one:

http://www.hotelatrium.com.pl/index.php

This hotel is literally 5 minutes walk from the market square, located on a quiet side street with a parking structure for hotel quests. There are at least 2 nearby secure 24hr parking places nearby in case as well. There is an open food market 1 minute walk (market has been operational for something like 800 years), few minutes walk from the mall near the railway station too.

Google maps:

https://maps.google.pl/maps?ie=UTF8&cid=8113307755956724964&q=Atrium&iwloc=A&gl=PL&hl=en


----------



## Superkot634

Condition national roads in Poland.











Fotorelacja wstawiona automatycznie.


----------



## metacatfry

^^^How are the various conditions quantified? How is it determined whether a road is satisfactory or not? I think that as a road network improves, the perceptions of what is bad or unsatisfactory moves as well so those statistics above need to have clear quantifiable metrics to make any sense.


----------



## ufonut

A1 Czerniewice-Kowal contract was signed today.


----------



## masages21

When is it planned to be finished?


----------



## ufonut

masages21 said:


> When is it planned to be finished?


In 11-12 months but it will opened to drivers in 8-9 months.


----------



## kurp

where exactly it is because i've never heard of these towns (villlages) you mention


----------



## mcarling

kurp said:


> where exactly it is because i've never heard of these towns (villlages) you mention


It's from Torun south to Kowal (which is about midway between Torun and Lodz). It is the entirety of the only uncompleted portion of the A1 between Gdansk and Lodz.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

kurp said:


> where exactly it is because i've never heard of these towns (villlages) you mention


They like to be very exact in Poland. That's why you have major interchanges named like obscure "Konotopa", instead of Warszawa-West. 

You can always copy-paste the name in Google Maps, downside is that many Polish villages have the same name, so you may end up somewhere else on the map.


----------



## Chris80678

How is it looking for the S79 and S2 (Warsaw) opening to traffic in 
late June/early July? Hope the snow and freezing temperatures isn't delaying work too much


----------



## mcarling

Chris80678 said:


> How is it looking for the S79 and S2 (Warsaw) opening to traffic in
> late June/early July? Hope the snow and freezing temperatures isn't delaying work too much


It looks like the struggle will be to get it all open before winter weather sets in.


----------



## ufonut

Road fatalities in Poland:

March 2012 - 265 dead
March 2013 - 166 dead

*37 % decrease*

January to March 2012 - 718 dead
January to March 2013 - 544 dead

*24% decrease*


----------



## toonczyk

It's worth noting that winter is still holding strong, there's been snow on the roads for most of those first 3 months of this year. Such conditions always have positive effect on safety (there's more collisions, but people drive much slower, so there is less fatalities and serious injuries). But overall I'm very optimistic there's going to be something around 3000 casualties on our roads this year, obviously that's a lot, but our rate of improvement isn't bad at all.


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

ufonut said:


> Road fatalities in Poland:
> 
> March 2012 - 265 dead
> March 2013 - 166 dead
> 
> *37 % decrease*
> 
> January to March 2012 - 718 dead
> January to March 2013 - 544 dead
> 
> *24% decrease*


Very long winter & some new roads. No surprise.


----------



## Elvenking

Any questions? :crazy2:


----------



## geogregor

Elvenking said:


> Any questions? :crazy2:


What a bunch of fucking morons. I would shoot people like that on site. They are going to kill someone sooner or later hno:hno:

I really don't get it. You don't see things like that in UK or France or Germany, even by Latvian, Lithuanian, Polish or Ukrainian drivers. Then, once they cross the Polish border, they feel like they have green light to be idiots again.

What is it? Lack of enforcement? General perception of free for all?


----------



## snowdog

Elvenking said:


>


----------



## Surel

geogregor said:


> What a bunch of fucking morons. I would shoot people like that on site. They are going to kill someone sooner or later hno:hno:
> 
> I really don't get it. You don't see things like that in UK or France or Germany, even by Latvian, Lithuanian, Polish or Ukrainian drivers. Then, once they cross the Polish border, they feel like they have green light to be idiots again.
> 
> What is it? Lack of enforcement? General perception of free for all?



As I see the Polish truck drivers are not behaving better in Russia.


----------



## Rombi

Elvenking said:


> Any questions? :crazy2:


I like the moment when in 33 sek. appears ad "Nagrobki". Irony of fate? ^^


----------



## kurp

i advise posters of this thread not to use some idiotic videos recorded by idiots a few years ago. the truth is that fatality rate on polish roads is by now reduced to eu average without any radical increase in price of speeding tickets or campaign showing suffering of car accident victims.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

kurp said:


> the truth is that fatality rate on polish roads is by now reduced to eu average


The fatality rate is almost double that of the EU average. The EU average is 55 fatalities per 1 million inhabitants, Poland got 93 in 2012. Only 2 countries have more fatalities than Poland (LT & RO).

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-13-236_en.htm

Needless to say, Poland saw one of the biggest improvements, but there is still a lot of work to do. Many safety bottlenecks will be solved by expanding the motorway and expressway network. However this will not be completed overnight. We saw a very large reduction in Spain as well after they massively expanded their Autopista/Autovía system. Spain is now one of the safest countries in the EU.


----------



## kurp

i'm talking about now (recent statistics of march 2013 showing reduction of 37 %). 93 to 55 is around that number.


----------



## mcarling

I agree that the long-term solution is the extension of the A and S class (and other dual carriageway) road networks.



kurp said:


> i'm talking about now (recent statistics of march 2013 showing reduction of 37 %). 93 to 55 is around that number.


As explained above by toonczyk, that drop is attributable to continuation of wintery weather through March this year. Even if that explanation were not available, your data set would be too small to draw a reliable conclusion. Let's see how the year compares.


----------



## snowdog

kurp said:


> i'm talking about now (recent statistics of march 2013 showing reduction of 37 %). 93 to 55 is around that number.


It's been a couple of months since I was last in Poland, I find it hard to believe behaviour has changed that much.

Especially in and around Warsaw, the average driver is quite aggressive and there are a lot of dangerous truck drivers !


----------



## kurp

mcarling said:


> As explained above by toonczyk, that drop is attributable to continuation of wintery weather through March this year. Even if that explanation were not available, your data set would be too small to draw a reliable conclusion. Let's see how the year compares.


there were years with longer winters but without such a reduction in fatality on roads.


----------



## kurp

snowdog said:


> It's been a couple of months since I was last in Poland, I find it hard to believe behaviour has changed that much.
> 
> Especially in and around Warsaw, the average driver is quite aggressive and there are a lot of dangerous truck drivers !


warsaw is just another story. all drivers, pedestrians, cyclists are agressive there.


----------



## Sponsor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Mostly bridge designs and painting. In most countries, everything is just grey and all bridge / overpass designs are standard flat concrete structures. There are much more arch bridges and cable-stayed designs in Poland than elsewhere.


Everything is aesthetic but painting. Some overpasses are as colourfull as kindergarten interior. We have enough colours in public space around here


----------



## katsuma

Surel said:


> As I see the Polish truck drivers are not behaving better in Russia.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5o4lgM8CBco


I heard that Czech drivers are the worst. 



snowdog said:


> Especially in and around Warsaw, the average driver is quite aggressive and there are a lot of dangerous truck drivers !


Possibly. Same e.g. in Geneva. When I paid a visit there, felt that the driving style was aggressive, with little tolerance for foreigners (drove a car with French reg. plate).


----------



## TommyLopez

^^ How can U say that man? Czech driver would never do things like that, I think no one can beat Russian or Polish drivers in such a bullshit on the road, this is really crazy hno:


----------



## SeyMan

katsuma said:


> I heard that Czech drivers are the worst.
> 
> 
> 
> Possibly. Same e.g. in Geneva. When I paid a visit there, felt that the driving style was aggressive, with little tolerance for foreigners (drove a car with French reg. plate).


French plates foreign in Geneva ?! :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Iluminat

kurp said:


> warsaw is just another story. all drivers, pedestrians, cyclists are agressive there.


Really :sly:


----------



## Haveblue

kurp said:


> warsaw is just another story. all drivers, pedestrians, cyclists are agressive there.


yeah, one of them ripped a sandwich of my hand while I was making my way to work.




TommyLopez said:


> ^^ How can U say that man? Czech driver would never do things like that, I think no one can beat Russian or Polish drivers in such a bullshit on the road, this is really crazy hno:


What on earth are you doing guys! This is country vs country discussion which basically is forbidden here on this forum.

Not to mention the fact, that if you drive a lot around Europe you will note that there is no territorial exclusive rights if it comes to idiot on the road ...

... and please leave Russians alone. If there was any other country where 70% of drivers had cameras installed in their cars then I am pretty sure that YT would be full of weird car accidents compilation from that country.


----------



## and802

Elvenking said:


> Any questions? :crazy2:


if I can correctly recognize signs on the back of the truck ... they are from Latvija, while telehone country code (372) indicates they are from Estonia


----------



## mcarling

I look forward to the day when higher resolution video cameras (allowing clear identification of vehicles) are routinely installed in cars and commercial drivers (commercial vehicles have logs showing who was at the wheel) can be prosecuted based on video evidence.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

and802 said:


> if I can correctly recognize signs on the back of the truck ... they are from Latvija, while telehone country code (372) indicates they are from Estonia


If I'm not blind, the telephone number has a country code 371 i.e. Latvia, also the number plate is indeed Latvian.


----------



## Clash_tekin

edit


----------



## geogregor

Wherever they are from they don't do this things in "so called" Western Europe. But once they are east of Odra river, here they go!!!

I'm honestly glad that I don't have to drive in Poland too much. Narrow roads of Scotland or Ireland are way more safe that our straight national roads hno:


----------



## Clash_tekin

TommyLopez said:


> ^^ How can U say that man? Czech driver would never do things like that, I think no one can beat Russian or Polish drivers in such a bullshit on the road, this is really crazy hno:


Czech lorry drivers are also good. 3 years ago on the way to prague almost pushed me into the ditch. I had to stop, because otherwise we would have suffered


----------



## keokiracer

So in conclusion: there are idiotic drivers from every country 
Can we move on now?


----------



## katsuma

TommyLopez said:


> How can U say that man? Czech driver would never do things like that, I think no one can beat Russian or Polish drivers in such a bullshit on the road, this is really crazy hno:


Oh really?

Luckily, we live in a world of intensive AV-recording, so take a look at what you can get when running a search by the phrase "*Crazy Czech Driver*" on YouTube:

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22YBR93ClDE

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slwff4Qivrc

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHQjxLDNAmw

etc.



SeyMan said:


> French plates foreign in Geneva ?! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Let me see... Geneva = Switzerland =/= France. :lol:



keokiracer said:


> Can we move on now?


Hopefully so.


----------



## Blaskovitz

snowdog said:


> This one's worse imho:




Typical lithuanian driver... Two years ago i worked with them, more than 50% of them was drunk or stoned(sic!)...


----------



## tompaw

Last 2 pages are all rubbish, where's the f'ing janitor?


----------



## cinxxx

In the end I booked 3 nights here, it has parking, it's not central, but that's no problem. One month left


----------



## TommyLopez

Quite interesting topic on the Polish forum I must say



katsuma said:


> Oh really?
> 
> Luckily, we live in a world of intensive AV-recording, so take a look at what you can get when running a search by the phrase "*Crazy Czech Driver*" on YouTube:
> 
> - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22YBR93ClDE
> 
> - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slwff4Qivrc
> 
> - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHQjxLDNAmw




I was just wondering where's that crazy Czech lorry driver on your videos... :nuts:

Anyway this is nothing against Poles or someone else, I'm not saying neither that Czechs are perfect drivers - they are not, in every country you find such an idiots on the road but to be honest - Polish drivers generally are not considered to be the best... hno: And the phrase "I heard that..." is simply not the fact.



> ... and please leave Russians alone. If there was any other country where 70% of drivers had cameras installed in their cars then I am pretty sure that YT would be full of weird car accidents compilation from that country.


YT is full of weird car accident compilation, most of them are from Russia, Ukraine and even Poland.


----------



## katsuma

TommyLopez said:


> I was just wondering where's that crazy Czech lorry driver on your videos...


See above. The phrase read "Crazy Czech Driver", not necessarily a lorry driver. 



TommyLopez said:


> (...) I'm not saying neither that Czechs are perfect drivers - they are not, in every country you find such an idiots on the road but to be honest - Polish drivers generally are not considered to be the best... hno: And the phrase "*I heard that...*" is simply not the fact.


Yeah, that was a tiny bit of trolling on my side alright. I just don't like Czech people, that's all. :troll:


----------



## thompsongda

Well, every country have a problem with truck drivers, but I must say that lithuanian truck drivers are the worst piece of s**t I've ever seen. They should get like 50k euro traffic ticket when they get busted, cause when they get 500euro traffic ticket for being drunk/stoned and doing this...:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evp2CxOdKlc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7aInxbFTGk

...it's kinda hilarious.


----------



## Rampage

Roads planned to be completed by year 2020:










Rest of the article with pictures:

http://finanse.wp.pl/gid,15465646,galeria.html


----------



## McKowski

^^

No ring around Warsaw?

No A1 from Katowice to the north?


----------



## Janek0

Map is not complete, they forgot about sections which most likely will be financed using the Polish Investments Programme, i.e. A1 Tuszyn-Pyrzowice and possibly A2 Warszawa-Mińsk Mazowiecki.


----------



## toonczyk

Chris80678 said:


> From the look of the aerial photos I can't see the S2/S79 in Warsaw being finished on time and being opened in traffic in early June or even early July hno:


I'm not sure where you got information that it was supposed to be opened in June, there is no official (official as in contract extension signed) opening date yet. We're hoping for June opening between A2 and Al. Krakowska, it's going to take another few months for the rest to be ready.


----------



## mcarling

It looks to me like it will be a struggle to complete the S2/S8/S79 construction before winter sets in.


----------



## metacatfry

Opening the new section of S2 only to Al. Krakowska could be more trouble than it's worth. 
It looks to me like the intersection of Krakowska and Lopuszanska is very overloaded, and in the other direction, Krakowska through Raszyn is very congested as well. 
Those are points traffic HAS to pass in order to get to and from the new motorway interchange. 
Putting a motorway connection inbetween these points make it so more traffic will try to feed into them, and making them more congested. 
In some situations this can lead to a breakdown and gridlock of traffic and throughput drops to zero, thus worsening the situation. 
The only trips that would really benefit would be those with origins or destinations immediately around the new motorway access, In Raszyn or Okecie.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What is happening with the Mszana Bridge (A1) nowadays? What are the works left to be done? Last year they said an August 2013 opening was likely.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^They should finish repair works on the bridge (MA532) in August. This section of motorway is said to be put into operation for the end of the year....


----------



## Kate.Kuj

Luki_SL said:


> ^^They should finish repair works on the bridge (MA532) in August. This section of motorway is said to be put into operation for the end of the year....


Thats really unbelievable. :soon: :doh:


----------



## rakcancer

Not sure since when Google Maps shows now DTS in Silesia as an Expressway. Finally.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## MichiH

rakcancer said:


> Not sure since when Google Maps shows now DTS in Silesia as an Expressway. Finally.


OSM does not show it as an Expressway: > click <.


----------



## Luki_SL

MichiH said:


> OSM does not show it as an Expressway: > click <.


DTS is`t expressway, but it looks like it


----------



## rakcancer

Google doesn't distinguish so many types of highways, expressways, urban expressways, motorways etc, so in my opinion they did the right thing. DTS is definitely a sort of expressway. No matter it has no "S" sign.


----------



## rakcancer

*A4/S19*

Newly constructed 2,5 km long connecting road from Rzeszow to A1/S19 was open on Tuesday.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Ujęcie w kierunku nowej trasy:










Następny motocyklista. Jeździł trasą ze 4 razy 







[/QUOTE]


redzik said:


> Cały tekst:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4LCij_s7C0U


----------



## Luki_SL

New aerial photos of expressway S5 (Kaczkowo - Korzeńsko) made by Carte : 



Carte said:


>


More photos : http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=102869808&postcount=3527 - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=102870069&postcount=3539


----------



## Moravian

Polish road (DK) No.52: Zakopianka route - Kalwaria Zebr. - Wadowice - Bialsko-Biala

Pictures/2006:


----------



## Moravian

Zakopianka in Krakow (road No.7)

snapshots/2007:


----------



## rakcancer

^^
2006, 2007? Pretty old stuff. Don't you think so?


----------



## Moravian

rakcancer said:


> ^^
> 2006, 2007? Pretty old stuff. Don't you think so?


Yes, sometimes it might be worthy..... In this case Zakopianka has later undergone some reconstruction. However the current "outfit" looks similar......


----------



## panthiocodin

I was hoping you are trying to show us some progress and by the and I feel really disappointed!


----------



## Kemo

Has everybody seen the Polish acoustic screen craziness? :nuts:
Street View


----------



## Rombi

Yeaah this is what I mean, when I'm talking about bureaucracy and sick law. We must rid of this plague ASAP.
Does the new law came into force on permissible decibels?


----------



## Janek0

Rombi said:


> Does the new law came into force on permissible decibels?


Yes, a half year ago.


----------



## Luki_SL

**

http://www.budimex.pl/subpage.asp?l...ory=43;listactiontype=0;menutype=2;idmenu=393



> On 7 May 2013, Budimex S.A., in a consortium with Heilit + Woerner Budowlana Sp. z o.o. (leader, 50%), signed a contract with the Rzeszów division of the General Directorate for National Roads and Motorways for the completion of the section of the A4 motorway between the Krzyż and Dębica Pustynia junctions. The value of the contract is PLN 798 million.
> The scope of works includes the continuation of the following works:
> 
> Completion of the construction of a 34.7 km section of the A4 motorway (between the Krzyż and Dębica Pustynia junctions), together with access roads and the redevelopment of local roads,
> Construction of two junctions, Dębica-Żyraków and Dębica-Pustynia, 5 bridges, 9 flyovers on the route of the motorway, 11 flyovers over the motorway, 3 animal passages, culverts and an overpass,
> Construction of 64 access roads along the motorway, two tourist service points (Jarząbka and Jawornik) and a Motorway Maintenance Section (Straszęcin).
> 
> The consortium has 1.5 years, starting from contract conclusion, to carry out the works.


----------



## Kemo

cinxxx said:


> 3 questions


Ask here for bigger chance of getting the answers


----------



## E2rdEm

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Dutch approach is three-fold; silent pavement, noise barriers and house insulation. In Poland, noise barriers appear to be the only noise abatement measure.


Quite correct.

The last method (house insulation) is completely out of the question in Poland, because, by the law, noise is measured at the building's wall. It seems the bricks also have the right to silence... hno:

And quiet pavement is apparently too high-tech for any Polish road authorities. They have to struggle with ruts caused by the pavement too flexible for summer, and cracks caused by pavement too inflexible for winter, so they assume there's really no choice.

Speed limits caused by noise concerns would be ineffective anyway, so it's not worth bothering either.

That way the only thing that's left are those ugly walls.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

E2rdEm said:


> The last method (house insulation) is completely out of the question in Poland, because, by the law, noise is measured at the building's wall. It seems the bricks also have the right to silence... hno:


That is the same in the Netherlands. The noise level is measured at the outside wall, with the one facing the roadway usually being the key wall to determine which measures will have to be taken.

However, it is possible to create a "deaf wall" by ensuring the inside noise levels do not exceed (I believe) 35 dB(A). You can achieve that with insulation and then the outside noise level doesn't matter. 

It goes like this in the Netherlands;

1) calculate noise level, see if it exceeds 50 dB(A)
2) if it doesn't, no problem.
3) if it does, then you can apply for a higher limit (from 55 to 65 dB(A) but depends on location (urban, non-urban) and road type, railways are permitted to generate more noise than roads). 
4) if noise levels exceed the higher limit, then measures are needed. A noise barrier is one of those measures, but not the only one.

The "higher limit" application is enough to avoid nearly all noise barriers.


----------



## mcarling

E2rdEm said:


> The last method (house insulation) is completely out of the question in Poland, because, by the law, noise is measured at the building's wall. It seems the bricks also have the right to silence...


Insulation can be placed on outer surface of the wall. Anyway, much of the noise comes through windows, so installing better insulated windows would solve the real problem but not the legal problem.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, windows being the key here. The Dutch building code has a provision that houses need to have an insulation standard of at least 20 decibels from outside levels. Of course, many older houses are not built conform these standards, so they need new double- or triple glass windows. I live next to a railway, the outside wall average noise level (Lden) is 82 decibels...


----------



## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yes, windows being the key here. The Dutch building code has a provision that houses need to have an insulation standard of at least 20 decibels from outside levels. Of course, many older houses are not built conform these standards, so they need new double- or triple glass windows. I live next to a railway, the outside wall average noise level (Lden) is 82 decibels...


It may well work for flats or houses without front gardes. However, its nothing pleasent to be forced live inside only and give up your garden because of high noise levels.

I would agree that inside cities, or densely populated areas with little green the house insulation is a good policy, however I don't think that it would sove the problem for the majority of the family houses that you could see in this example in Poland. Althought new windows are certainly better than the old one even in such a family house. The property price will neverthless be affected whether with noise or the barrier itself. I think better spacial planning is the key here.


----------



## snowdog

Surel said:


> It may well work for flats or houses without front gardes. However, its nothing pleasent to be forced live inside only and give up your garden because of high noise levels.


Arguably, someone profits from lower property prices by buying a cheaper house near major roads ( NIMBY)...

Least be glad Poles are not whining about ''air quality'' instead of noise, complete roads have been downgraded here or had gotten completely retarded speed limits just for the ''air quality''.
2x3 or 2x5 lane motoways through farmville or cowland ( cough A4, cough cough A2) have been set @ 100km/h...

Also, apparently, the cows and birds are more important than people, seeing how high speed rails run above ground near neighbourhoods, but in a tunnel under some un-used grassland.

Rather have silly noise barriers everywhere than low speed limits decided by the green Mafia.

I'd be far more happy with noise barriers and 140 km/h than crappy 80 or 100km/h and no noise barriers.


----------



## Surel

snowdog said:


> Arguably, someone profits from lower property prices by buying a cheaper house near major roads ( NIMBY)...


I don´t know what you mean exactly. The noise produced by traffic is a externality. I.e. such a economic good (in this case with negative effect) which comes to existence due to some economic activity, but there is no direct way how to bill the costs of it.

I.e. the houselord could say, the value of the law noise level is X. The cars making the noise destroy the peace and by this thuse cause me costs in the size of X. I charge the car users X in order to allow them make the noise. Or in other way, the drivers would ask the landlord for how much is he willing to allow them use the road with certain noise levels. The accepted price would be X.

This is not possible, by multiple reasons. You can't do it individually and measure the noise caused by every vehicle, let alone charge every vehicle.

The solution is to tax the car users and from the tax money create anti noise measures that would compensate the landlords, e.g. by creating noise walls, realignments, insulation, etc.

In the case of railways or private roads it would be possible to do it directly without the taxes because there is only one entity to deal with.

The important notion should be that the law should be set so, that it compensates the change compared with the current state for the landlords. E.g. the traffic rose, or there is a new road build.

When a new housing construction comes to already existing road, the costs should not be on the side of the motorists though, because there is no change in the enviroment after their investments were made already (unless e.g. traffic levels increase).


In Poland is it often the first case, i.e. houses are already there and a road comes, or traffic increases. But in this case I see newly built houses mostly. Therefore I wanted to point out that the spacial planning is quite important, because it can avoid those problems altogether.


----------



## mcarling

Surel is correct about negative externalities. The solution solution is to base the periodic (annual or biannual in most jurisdictions) vehicle registration fees upon measured pollution (air pollution and noise pollution) levels produced by the vehicle times the distance driven since the previous registration.


----------



## metacatfry

The spatial development in rural Poland is quite disadvantageous for fitting the two priorities of transportability and livability together due to very extensive ribbon development. I don't have that knowledge why this is so but suspect that the chaotic history of the Polish economy in the 20. century and particularly the politics surrounding land ownership has much to do with it.


----------



## Surel

metacatfry said:


> The spatial development in rural Poland is quite disadvantageous for fitting the two priorities of transportability and livability together due to very extensive ribbon development. I don't have that knowledge why this is so but suspect that the chaotic history of the Polish economy in the 20. century and particularly the politics surrounding land ownership has much to do with it.


Yeah. Similar situation is on many places in the Czech republic, although the ribbon development is not so extensive.



mcarling said:


> Surel is correct about negative externalities. The solution solution is to base the periodic (annual or biannual in most jurisdictions) vehicle registration fees upon measured pollution (air pollution and noise pollution) levels produced by the vehicle times the distance driven since the previous registration.


You would also need to create noise and pollution maps to find the counterpart to this - the affected landlords.


----------



## snowdog

Surel said:


> When a new housing construction comes to already existing road, the costs should not be on the side of the motorists though, because there is no change in the enviroment after their investments were made already (unless e.g. traffic levels increase).


That is what I meant.

If you buy a house near a motorway, then don't complain about the noise or pollution, because you probably spent about 25.000 euros less ( or even more less) than people for a similar house elsewhere.

The A13 for example in Rotterdam near Overschie, that road has been around for 60 years or more. I absolutely hate the retards who move there buying a cheap house, then complain about the motorway later.

I'd gladly trade off some ''quiet'' for so much money and live next to a motorway... Ideally easy access like this would be awesome, get in car and within 30 seconds I'm on a motorway .
One of my mates lives on that road, and I certainly have no problem sleeping there...


----------



## woyteck

I lived 10m from a busy road with speed limit of 50km/h on it. What I heard constantly through double glazed windows was vroom, vroom, vroom from 6 am till midnight. Opening windows was not an option as you would'nt be able to watch the TV or speak without shouting. 
During summer it was especially annoying as we the wall was facing south (and the road) and it was either a lot of noise or 27-28 C in the room...
I do not mind sound barriers, but I can tell you that they can be done the better way (in the UK they put banks on both sides of the road and then plant trees on them for example).


----------



## Haveblue

changing topic for a while: can someone please update the map on the front page? A4 is still in a tender stage on it, whereas the contract has been signed something like one week ago.


----------



## mcarling

Haveblue said:


> changing topic for a while: can someone please update the map on the front page? A4 is still in a tender stage on it, whereas the contract has been signed something like one week ago.


The map, which in my opinion is excellent, was updated only three weeks ago. I don't think it would be fair to expect the maintainers of the map, who are unpaid volunteers, to update it for each and every change. It seems that the map is typically updated once every three to six weeks, for which I'm very grateful.


----------



## Haveblue

it is a major one though


----------



## mcarling

I think of the major events as the road openings; contract signings, not quite so major, as I see it. I admit, contract signings are perhaps not as minor as, for example, environmental approval.


----------



## Des

Quite bizar that Poland still has not one full completed North-South motorway. I understand that most (foreign) traffic is East-West oriented but still.

Regardless of the missing North-South link at the moment its impressive to see how far Poland has come in the last 5-6 years.


----------



## Rombi

Yo have to know that almost whole part of National Road 1 south from Łódź is two-lane in each direction just not A-class. The only really missing part of two-lane road is between Toruń and Kowal (around 70 km) which is thanks God right now under construction.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What is the main span of the Mszana Bridge?


----------



## toonczyk

^^ There are 3 pylons, spans are about 60m + 130m + 130m + 60m. Altogether the bridge is 402,5m long and 39,8 - 44,7m wide (width is variable), slightly curved (R=1500m). Here's what it basically looks like:


----------



## lukaszek89

^^


----------



## Surel

^^
Are there any solutions proposed?


----------



## Sunfuns

What is extradoses bridge and why was it chosen as the best solution? I haven't heard this term before. At least not in English.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Switzerland actually pioneered extradosed bridges, the Ganterbrücke at the Simplon Pass was the first extradosed bridge in the world.

An extradosed bridge looks like a cable-stayed bridge, but it actually works more like a box-girder bridge. A cable-stayed bridge carries almost 100% of the forces through vertical cables. This is only 20 - 40% at extradosed bridges which carry the forces much more horizontally than regular cable-stayed bridges.

Extradosed bridges are neither cheaper nor more efficient or easier to design than regular box girder bridges. However, the cost difference is often small. They are only efficient for medium spans between 150 and 250 meters. The longest span of an extradosed bridge is 275 meters; the Kisogawa Bridge in Japan. Extradosed bridges are usually only for aesthetics.

Poland has the largest extradosed bridge in Europe, the bridge at Kwidzyn (currently under construction). The Mszana Bridge is the widest curved extradosed bridge. The Sunnibergbrücke in Switzerland (near Klosters) is an example of a smaller curved extradosed bridge.


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## toonczyk

Sunfuns said:


> What is extradoses bridge and why was it chosen as the best solution? I haven't heard this term before. At least not in English.


http://bit.ly/187QbTH

It was chosen over other solutions because the main criteria was maintaining "openness" of the valley below (as few and as small supports as possible), while keeping it within reason in terms of economics. Full blown cable stayed bridge would have been much more expensive. I'm pretty sure it was possible to go for a girder bridge with 3 supports, if they were large enough... So it comes down to the fact that secondary criterion was aesthetics, in hindsight it's easy to say they should have gone for a girder bridge, but the decisions were made long ago and we have to deal with what we have.


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## Chris80678

But will the completed Mszana bridge allow the A1 between Swierklany and Mszana to be opened as previsionally planned in August this year?


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## toonczyk

Chris80678 said:


> But will the completed Mszana bridge allow the A1 between Swierklany and Mszana to be opened as previsionally planned in August this year?


I'm not sure what you mean, the bridge isn't completed and the contractor who was meant to finish it (Alpine) said they won't. August opening is out of the question, we'll be lucky if they open the bridge this year.

Here's two fresh photos of MA532, try imagining how challenging it was to design this thing, given how wide it is and that there is no steel girder underneath - all forces have to be dealt with by the post-tensioned concrete box...



budowniczy S said:


> Jako, że dawno nie było fotek z odcinka Świerklany-Gorzyczki to zamieszczam kilka zdzisiów
> 
> 1. MA 532
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> 4. Wygląda na to, że Alpine wywozi swój sprzęt i materiały hno:


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## lukaszek89

and some better news:

A4 from Kraków to Tarnów is now 2x2 on the all lenght


:cheer: :cheer:

Brzesko-Tarnów Zachód part





video by Agusia


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## lukaszek89

Toruń:



hNr said:


>


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## Kemo

A4 near Dębica:


humar said:


> Sfociłem wczoraj "kamień milowy" - na razie jedno zdjęcie na zachętę - później wrzucę resztę.


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## Poul_

TORUŃ - second part is coming...



klosek said:


>





terrap said:


>


:cheers:


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## Kaczorm

[ S8 ] [ E67 ] Syców - Sieradz



Kaczorm said:


> We wrześniu w zeszłym roku robiłem taką samą fotorelację. Jak ktoś ma ochotę może poszukać w wątku i porównać stan budowy wtedy i dziś. Zdjęcia mają EXIFy, więc jest zaznaczone dokładnie skąd robione. Aha i jak ktoś ma ochotę to w panoramach Wrocławia wrzuciłem też parę zdjęć  Tutaj rozdzielę to na dwa tematy Syców - Walichnowy, Walichnowy - Łódź. Miłego oglądania.
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## Kaczorm

Part 2



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## Kaczorm

Part 3



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## Kaczorm

Part 4



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> I tym miłym akcentem impreza przenosi się do sąsiedniego wątku ( Walichnowy - Łódź ).
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1193413&page=168





Kaczorm said:


> Jest to ciąg dalszy fotorelacji od Sycowa do Sieradza. Kto nie widział pierwszej części, odsyłam do sąsiedniego wątku
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## Kaczorm

Part 5



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> Mam nadzieję, że się Wam podobało  Pozdrawiam, czas odpocząc


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## ChrisZwolle

http://i44.tinypic.com/30c90s6.jpg

Is this the Walichnowy interchange? 

Progress on S8 looks good for a 2014 opening.


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## Kaczorm

^^

Yup exactly, this is Walichnowy intersection. Notice: you can compare these photos with the previous ones that I took in September 2012. Of course if you have time to browse through this thread and find them


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## kmieciu

*Planned schedule for opening S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów*


May 27 14:00 - "Jordanowo" A2 - "Świebodzin North" S3 

June 17 - "Sulechów" - "Świebodzin South" 

July 11 - Świebodzin bypass

August 1 - "Międzyrzecz South" - "Jordanowo" A2


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## witos

This is comparison of S8 constraction (Syców-Kępno-Wieruszów-Walichnowy and Walichnowy interchange), between September 2012 and May 2013. 
Photo by Kaczorm
Comparison by me



witos said:


> Dzięki wielkie Kaczorm :cheers: Tego nam było trzeba :banana:
> W takim razie postanowiłem porównać kilka zdjęć:
> 
> 1. Węzeł Syców Wschód
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> 2. Węzeł Bralin
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> 3. PZD-17 + PZM-22 + WD-6 (Szklarka Mielęcka)
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> 4. WD-9 nad DK11
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> 5. WS-10 nad linią kolejową i WS-11
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> Zdjęcia wykonał Kaczorm
> CDN.


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## witos

Part 2


witos said:


> 6. Węzeł Kępno z S11
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> 7. MOP III Kierzno i PP-15a
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> 8. WD-18 w Jutrkowie
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> 9. Okolice Polesia - WD-22 i węzeł Wieruszów
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> 10. WD-23 i węzeł Wieruszów
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> 
> Zdjęcia wykonał Kaczorm
> CDN.


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## witos

Part 3


witos said:


> 11. PZ-3 + PG-4 + MOP I Dziadoki
> 
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> 12. PZ-6
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> 13. WD-7 oraz baza Dragadosu w Gumniskach, na czerwono dziura w nasypie - w tym miejscu powstanie dodatkowy wiadukt typu WS
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> 14. WD-9 i WD-10, okolice Zdzierczyzny, Prusaka i Sokolnik
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> 15. WD-10, miejscowość Prusak
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> 16. Węzeł Walichnowy z DK14
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> Zdjęcia wykonał Kaczorm


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## witos

Part 4 - Walichnowy interchange


witos said:


> Dwa porównania węzła Walichnowy, stan z września 2012 i maja 2013. Drugie zdjęcie jest po obrocie, bo było trochę koślawe
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> Zdjęcia wykonał Kaczorm.


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## lukaszek89

Toruń:


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## ChrisZwolle

*S8 Walichnowy Interchange*

Is there a specific reason why the Walichnowy Interchange is being build as such a large cloverleaf, while the crossing road (DK14) appears to be a two-lane road only? The way I see it, S8 will closely parallel DK14 towards the Sieradz area, which means few traffic will use DK14 once S8 is open to traffic. 

To the south, DK8 is a major route to the city of Wieluń, but then you'd expect they want to upgrade that road too, if they build such a large cloverleaf with C/D lanes.


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## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is there a specific reason why the Walichnowy Interchange is being build as such a large cloverleaf, while the crossing road (DK14) appears to be a two-lane road only?


It appears from the aerial photo that the land would have been inexpensive, so better to get it now and preserve the possibility of accommodating a 2x2 DK14 and 2x3 S8 if needed in the future.


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## lukaszek89

Almost there:


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## bogdymol

This is cool:



lukaszek89 said:


> Czech D1 (Dálnice D1) and Polish A1 (Autostrada A1) motorway:


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## Signar

S12/17 Kurów-Bogucin 
Foto from www.gddkia.gov

Next week will be open  


baczek_23 said:


> GDDKiA opublikowało świeże zdjęcia z zadania 1 z dnia 20.05.2013
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> źródło: GDDKIA
> Autor zdjęć: Krzysztof Nalewajko





baczek_23 said:


> źródło: GDDKIA
> Autor zdjęć: Krzysztof Nalewajko


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That looks very good. Does the eastern part to Piaski already have expressway status? Are works finished there?

Also; when will the second carriageway of S7 around Kielce open?


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## toonczyk

^^ Apparently the first ~6 kms were opened last weekend, I don't know when will the rest of the second carriageway be finished. I'd guess it's a matter of weeks.


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## jacekfreeman

ChrisZwolle said:


> That looks very good. Does the eastern part to Piaski already have expressway status? Are works finished there??


Expressway signs are still crossed out. There are some small works going on on this part and speed limit is 90 km/h.


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## Dantiscum

"Łęknica PL-D 617"
another useless annoying "how far would we have to go if we would like to make a trip along the whole route" information...


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## ChrisZwolle

What is the official name of the S7/S51 interchange? I found both Olsztynek and Olsztynek-zachód.


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## Strzala

Dantiscum said:


> "Łęknica PL-D 617"
> another useless annoying "how far would we have to go if we would like to make a trip along the whole route" information...


Who cares...This section of expressway is more important than one or million signs.:banana:


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## masages21

Polish Road Authority is going to open S3/A2 interchange next Monday.


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## Eulanthe

Dantiscum said:


> "Łęknica PL-D 617"
> another useless annoying "how far would we have to go if we would like to make a trip along the whole route" information...


I don't mind when the route is logical (for instance, distance to the A1 north-east of Bydogszcz from Wroclaw) - but this case is completely illogical as no-one would be travelling that route! The distance to Budzisko makes sense on the A8 round Wroclaw - because it's quite possible that someone would drive that entire route that way. 

I wish they would finally stop with signing border crossings when they don't exist anymore - even the new A1 has this nonsense. 

Does anyone know if L'viv has distances signposted along the new A4?


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## mcarling

Eulanthe said:


> I wish they would finally stop with signing border crossings when they don't exist anymore - even the new A1 has this nonsense.


I agree but, unfortunately, there are still a lot of nationalists who think that internal Schengen area borders are important.


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## sotonsi

The number of the road changes, doesn't it? And there are different laws of the road (and laws full stop). Those are useful things to know, even if there isn't passport control!

And given this and this are both far less meaningful, but signed, it is a nonsense to suggest that Poland-Czechia border isn't something worth signing.


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## lukaszek89

sotonsi said:


> The number of the road changes, doesn't it? And there are different laws of the road (and laws full stop). Those are useful things to know, even if there isn't passport control!
> 
> And given this and this are both far less meaningful, but signed, it is a nonsense to suggest that Poland-Czechia border isn't something worth signing.


but this is what they mean:


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## mcarling

sotonsi said:


> The number of the road changes, doesn't it? And there are different laws of the road (and laws full stop). Those are useful things to know, even if there isn't passport control!
> 
> And given this and this are both far less meaningful, but signed, it is a nonsense to suggest that Poland-Czechia border isn't something worth signing.


It was not my intention to suggest that there should not be any signs at the border. It was my intention to suggest that signs indicating the distance to the border are unnecessary. Please accept my apologies for the ambiguity.

BTW, internal Schengen area borders are not just about no passport control. Stops of any sort (with limited temporary exceptions for national security) are prohibited and even reduced speed limits at the border are prohibited.


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## sotonsi

Oh, yes, now that I understand what you are talking about, it makes a lot of sense - don't sign small villages from hundreds of km away just because they are border points. That, IIRC, is a Polish quirk that other countries don't do.

Though the Russian, Belarusian and Ukrainian borders are not Schengen, it doesn't make much sense to sign the border point, just that the destination is across a border: Lviv with the (UA) oval makes sense, Korczora (PL) (UA) isn't worth signing (at least not from a long distance), even though the border is there.

Berlin doesn't need a (D) and so on, as that you will cross a border is of no consequence, but it isn't a problem to sign it.


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## Agnette

Can anybody say, when the Strykow-Konotopa section of A2 will be tolled?
Thank You.


----------



## rakcancer

*S17/A4*

GoogleMaps is quick. It already shows two new sections of S17 near Lublin and A4 near Jaroslaw which are scheduled to be open soon.

S17


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

A4


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## Pascal20a

But they arent quick with the Hungarian M3!!


----------



## GrimFadango

Directly related to Polish motorways:








> *Use of fauna overpasses*
> 
> Monitoring the use of 16 fauna passes on A4 (54 km section in western Poland) conducted since 2010 shows that overpasses are the most intensively used by wild animals, while underpasses (16-19 m with) and extended bridges over rivers are 16. and 5. times less utilised, respectively. On the film you can see videofootages taken by cameratraps installed on 6 overapasses there (35-45 m width).


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## rakcancer

Pascal20a said:


> But they arent quick with the Hungarian M3!!


We used to have the same problem. Just before Euro2012 in Poland and Ukraine Google clearly speeded up with updates. Now they are usually up to date... sometimes even to fast.


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## Janek0

rakcancer said:


> We used to have the same problem. Just before Euro2012 in Poland and Ukraine Google clearly speeded up with updates. Now they are usually up to date... sometimes even to fast.


Because Google Maps are now updated by users with Google Map Maker.


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## mcarling

rakcancer said:


> GoogleMaps is quick. It already shows two new sections of S17 near Lublin and A4 near Jaroslaw which are scheduled to be open soon.


I don't see how being too early showing them open (when they are not yet open) could be better than being late in showing them open.


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## Haveblue

Well it is not that clear about Google. They used to delay in showing new roads (like it was with A2) and now they are even quicker then Road Authorities opening S17. Well I do not care that much about, but people trabeling from abroad should have good and acurate traveling tool to find them selves on the map.


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## rakcancer

*S69 Bielsko-Biala - Zywiec*

Progress on S69:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Stan na 17 maja 







[/QUOTE]

First phase of construction
Second phase - base build
Third phase - top layer (wearing course)



budowniczy S said:


> cdn.
> 
> 31. Widok z Kalnej w stronę Żywca (ustawili 2 żurawie przy MS 14)
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> 36. WD 15A i wykop w 21 km S69
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> Dziękuję za uwagę :goodbye:


01. Widok z węzła Łodygowice w kierunku Bielska:









Na poniższych zdjęciach podbudowa, między WS-10 a węzłem Łodygowice:








[/QUOTE]


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## rakcancer

*S8*

S8 Walichnowy - Lodz



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Rusonaldo said:


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## mcarling

From the photos above, I don't see any chance for the S69 between Bielsko-Biala and Zywiec to open this year.


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## zagłębiak1

mcarling said:


> From the photos above, I don't see any chance for the S69 between Bielsko-Biala and Zywiec to open this year.


Yes , it is true


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## Luki_SL

^^The General Directorate of National Roads and Motorways still claims that the S69 will be opened to the end of the year


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## lukaszek89

:drool::drool::drool:Concrete


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## Pansori

A couple of photos from 2 weeks ago while driving on the *A2* from Warsaw towards DE border. It wasn't the first time I was on A2 but it was the first time I drove on the completed A2 all the way from Warsaw to DE Border. What a pleasant road to drive on. Pretty much a perfect motorway in every sense. 

Sadly I didn't take any photos of the Warsaw bypass but that was quite an impressive sight.

Taken at some rest area somewhere between Warsaw and Poznan






Noise barriers


This is taken from a bridge right next to Poznan city boundary


New section between Poznan and DE border surrounded by forest


One of many passing bridges for wild animals (I assume)


Later I took a ride from Wroclaw via Warsaw to PL/LT border much of which was on the S8. I will post some photos later.


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## rakcancer

lukaszek89 said:


> :drool::drool::drool:Concrete
> 
> Concrete is good!


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## Pansori

vectom said:


> excuse me for my ignorance, but I'm quite impressed by that fact that Poland achieved 2000+ km of motorways in (seems to me) such a quick pace. Therefore, is there any well marked map here on SSC with current motorways and expressways? Thanks a lot!


I guess this is what you're looking for: http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/


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## Blaskovitz

Pansori said:


> I guess this is what you're looking for: http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/


He is asking about actual map  

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81380146/mapka-igorsel.png


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## Beck's

Pansori said:


> Pavement quality is generally good. There were a few stretches with rather poor quality but it was only a few km if remember right.


That sounds great


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## Signar

Blaskovitz said:


> He is asking about actual map
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81380146/mapka-igorsel.png


S12/17 is open


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## Haveblue

just to be absolutely clear on this: Strzała means third part of this express road, 24km stretch between Sielce and Bogucin (just outside Lublin going north-west towards Warsaw)


----------



## Strzala

Haveblue said:


> just to be absolutely clear on this: *Strzała *means third part of this express road, 24km stretch between Sielce and Bogucin (just outside Lublin going north-west towards Warsaw)


?


----------



## Strzala

Haveblue said:


> just to be absolutely clear on this: Strzała means third part of this express road, 24km stretch between Sielce and Bogucin (just outside Lublin going north-west towards Warsaw)


To be clear 100% , section 1 and section 5 are opened :



> http://www.kurierlubelski.pl/artyku...7-z-kurowa-do-bogucina-pojedziemy-z,id,t.html


section 2 should be opened in autumn 2013 and sections 3 and 4 are under construction probably till autumn 2014.


----------



## Haveblue

yeah, but in the entire proposed S17 it is the third part that is open for traffic.


----------



## Beck's

Signar said:


> S12/17 is open


:cheers::cheers::cheers:


----------



## MichiH

Strzala said:


> section 2 should be opened in autumn 2013 and sections 3 and 4 are under construction probably till autumn 2014.


Does section 2 also include the new road from Dabrowica to Lublin downtown or will there be a temporary link to the DK12/17?

When will the S19 western Lublin bypass be built? Is it needed soon or is it "nice to have" compared to other road projects, e.g. completion of S17 Warsaw-Lublin?

Which project is more important: S19 Lublin-Rzeszow or S17 Lublin-Lviv?


----------



## jacekfreeman

Section 2 finishes at Lublin's city border but the road from border to downtown is now also being built. We will see which one will be finished first.

S19 (western bypass) will start approximately at the same time as next sections towards Warsaw (AFAIK) and completion of Puławy's bypass.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Strzala said:


> To be clear 100% , section 1 and section 5 are opened


Is section now 5 fully under expressway regulations? Is there an exact date when this happened?


----------



## Haveblue

welll  it is not ... still some speed restrictions apply ... apparently it should not take too loong now.


----------



## jacekfreeman

^^There is still lower speed limit (90) and expressway sings crossed out. I think what Strzala had meant was that this section is just opened for traffic (actually it's been opened for the whole time, even during serious works). It looks almost finished right now though.


----------



## MichiH

jacekfreeman said:


> Section 2 finishes at Lublin's city border but the road from border to downtown is now also being built. We will see which one will be finished first.


Finished first? I guess both sections have to be opened together, won't they? :?



jacekfreeman said:


> S19 (western bypass) will start approximately at the same time as next sections towards Warsaw (AFAIK) and completion of Puławy's bypass.


2014? :?


----------



## Kemo

MichiH said:


> Finished first? I guess both sections have to be opened together, won't they? :?


They will probably make a temporary link from section 2 to the "old" road, as it will likely be finished before the road to downtown (and section 3).



> 2014? :?


Yes, according to announcements the construction could start next year.


----------



## Signar

S12/17 Jastków-Kurów Zachód 


damianmmm said:


> nie jest to filmik klasy rusonaldo ale lepszy rydz niż nic, trochę trzęsie na początku(uchwyt jest do niczego)


----------



## ReefGear

A4 Jarosław Wschód - Przemyśl by *jarfi*:



jarfi said:


> Przejazd dzisiaj. Nieco lepsza pogoda.


----------



## jacekfreeman

MichiH said:


> Finished first? I guess both sections have to be opened together, won't they? :?


We hope, but it's not sure if they'll be opened together (section 2 is more advanced than city's section).


----------



## MichiH

jacekfreeman said:


> We hope, but it's not sure if they'll be opened together (section 2 is more advanced than city's section).


Of course. But I think it is not possible to build a temporary link road not before completion of the section. I guess the first section will be completed but not opened until the city section will be opened.


----------



## Kemo

Currently there are no such plans.

At least not officially 



pmaciej7 said:


> Na czarno istniejące elementy, na czerwono i niebiesko - do do- i przebudowania. Oprócz tego dwa SPO zjazdowe i dwa wjazdowe.
> 
> Jeżeli miałaby powstać obwodnica południowa Piotrkowa, to można cały układ przedłużyć na południe i podpiąć jeszcze jeden węzeł.


----------



## lukaszek89

Total cost of the 50 tenders planned this year for expressway roads (length 717km) is about 8,5b euro.

One of the most technically advanced projects seems to be S7 (Lubień-Rabka) expressway.

16km: 38 bridges and viaducts, 2km long tunnel,


----------



## mcarling

bad_boy said:


> Today the Council of Ministers (i.e. goverment, incuding the Ministry of Finance) approved schedule of tenders for new expressways to be announced in 2013.
> 
> Altogether more than 700 kilometers of expressways will go to tender in 2013.


I guess we can expect most or all of these to be completed during 2015 and 2016.


----------



## bad_boy

Yes, two seasons will be enough for most of these projects, save surely mountain passes of S3 and S7, each including 2+ kilometers twin tube tunnels and other difficult features.

So at the end of 2016 (or rather spring 2017) we should have around 4000 kilometers of complete motorways and expressways combined (existing 2500, currently under construction 600, 2013 new tenders 700 and A1 Tuszyn - Pyrzowice 140).

Surely there will be some delays with this number of projects, but that is just rough estimate, and finally something which could be called a network.


----------



## cinxxx

:applause:


----------



## rakcancer

Quickly and simply:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

*-* *Existing*
*- Under construction*
*- Projected new tenders*


----------



## rakcancer

I wish renovation of A18 was included in these plans. It looks like this is going to be never ending sad story.


----------



## bad_boy

Today GDDKiA announced tenders for the first four projects:

*S3 *

Gorzów Wielkopolski bypass (second carriageway) - 11.660 kilometers;

Międzyrzecz bypass (second carriageway) - 6.370 kilometers;

*S7 Warszawa - Gdańsk*

Nidzica – Napierki - 22.700 kilometers;

*S7 Warszawa - Rabka*

Jędrzejów – Świętokrzyskie Voivodeship limit - 19.900 kilometers.


----------



## mcarling

rakcancer said:


> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/716/gwdrogi.jpg


It seems that the under construction section of the S61 was forgotten.


----------



## Strzala

S7 [E77] Kielce bypass motorway under construction:







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sRFx2D96OQ


----------



## warkon12

Any plans for A2 to Terespol???


----------



## masages21

Nope there are no such plans. (Till 2020)


----------



## bad_boy

warkon12 said:


> Any plans for A2 to Terespol???


It will not be built by 2020, however it is probable that they will build a short strech of A2 between Warsaw and the existing bypass of Mińsk Mazowiecki together with continuation of S2 eastwards. It would be logical to do it: this part is very cheap, connects existing parts and goes through urbanised areas near Warsaw where it is much needed.

Tenders for the rest of S2 should be announced in 2014 or 2015, then we will see.


----------



## rakcancer

The rest of S2 is going to be one of the most complicated and costly part.There will be over a kilometer long tunnel to build across Ursynow and then bridge over the Wisla river.


----------



## mcarling

bad_boy said:


> it is probable that they will build a short strech of A2 between Warsaw and the existing bypass of Mińsk Mazowiecki together with continuation of S2 eastwards. It would be logical to do it: this part is very cheap, connects existing parts and goes through urbanised areas near Warsaw where it is much needed.


I agree that it is much needed and logical, however, I don't not agree that it would be "very cheap" to build. At best the S2 might be cheap compared to other new urban expressways in similarly sized cities. It will be very expensive compared to other expressways in Poland.


----------



## paf1

mcarling said:


> It seems that the under construction section of the S61 was forgotten.


Red lines on the map represent, which tenders will start in 2013, not which roads will be completed until 2020.


----------



## bad_boy

mcarling said:


> I agree that it is much needed and logical, however, I don't not agree that it would be "very cheap" to build. At best the S2 might be cheap compared to other new urban expressways in similarly sized cities. It will be very expensive compared to other expressways in Poland.


No, I mean that this small strech of A2 (between S2 and the existing bypass of Mińsk Mazowiecki) will be cheap - comparing not only to S2 (which is obvious), but also to similar projects in quite urbanised areas. No expensive structures there, like tunnels, bridges or complex intersections.


----------



## mcarling

paf1 said:


> Red lines on the map represent, which tenders will start in 2013, not which roads will be completed until 2020.


I meant that the under construction segment of the S61 should be represented in yellow on that map, but is represented in white. Or???


----------



## Dantiscum

https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/userfiles...ie-przygotowanie-d_3198/mapa_28_maja_2013.pdf

pink: roads to be built till 2020 (more precisely: tender will be announced till 2020)


----------



## rakcancer

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## bad_boy

^^
Seeing is believieng, so not yet .

But maybe, finally, the second worst strech of motorway is Europe (only second to A320 in Lorraine) wll be brought to state of a decent road.


----------



## rakcancer

....well this is a tender only. construction could start even after 2020...


----------



## rakcancer

Two small (positive) surprises:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## Widur

^^ Could you share the source link to these maps?


----------



## keokiracer

Is from the previous page. 


Dantiscum said:


> https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/userfiles...ie-przygotowanie-d_3198/mapa_28_maja_2013.pdf
> 
> pink: roads to be built till 2020 (more precisious: tender will be announced till 2020)


----------



## Yamamoto

*S7*

I am surprised to see the S7 part around Modlin in black 










while it is a express road, the road quality is quite poor compared to the new roads in Poland.

I would expect at least a renovation of this part, with exception of the bridge.

Does anyone have any insights?


----------



## toonczyk

^^ It's in black because it is an expressway and is in use. Quality isn't the greatest, but probably a simple resurfacing would suffice. If the quality gets too bad it'll get fixed, but it's not an urgent matter right now.

I still think we should take those plans with a grain of salt, I'm not convinced all of the roads marked in pink on this map will have funding secured before 2020. It's very, very optimistic, even considering how much EU funds Poland is getting in 2014-2020 perspective.


----------



## i15

nothing on S19 from Rzeszow bypass to SK border before 2020?


----------



## michau88

Dantiscum said:


> https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/userfiles...ie-przygotowanie-d_3198/mapa_28_maja_2013.pdf
> 
> pink: roads to be built till 2020 (more precisely: tender will be announced till 2020)


Could someone upload this map, please?

When you click on the link it says that there's no such website...


----------



## ufonut

i15 said:


> nothing on S19 from Rzeszow bypass to SK border before 2020?


S19 will be included in the pool of 900km of expressways which will be announced in October 2013. How many stretches is I think still unknown.

700km announced this week (tenders in 2013) and 900km to be announced in Oct 2013 (tenders in 2013/2014/2015). 

The plan is to build 1600km of expressways before 2020. How many kms of highways is a good guess (but for sure A1 which is 140km long).

Conservatively speaking at least 1750km of highways/expressways until 2020.


----------



## pmaciej7

michau88 said:


> Could someone upload this map, please?


Map 2013-2020 by Grzadq: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=104046377&postcount=1606


----------



## CMichu




----------



## Dantiscum

^^ perhaps a small explanation for the non-polish speakers:
blue - tender this year
red - tender till 2020


----------



## Pascal20a

Does anybody have actual information of the S69?


----------



## Pascal20a

How much is the expressway finished? Cause I wanna drive there from Linz to Bielsko - Biala via vienna, Bratislava and Zilina.


----------



## mcarling

^^
Avoid the S69. From Zilina, take the I11 to Cieszyn, then S1 to Bielsko-Biala.


----------



## Pascal20a

Why avoid??


----------



## Pascal20a

Where I must pay toll?


----------



## Mont7right

And why for the love of god do they sign tiny places 600 kilometers away near borders?


----------



## Pascal20a

What do you mean?
I have wrote the 10000th post


----------



## mcarling

MichiH said:


> the S7 could be a good connection to _Budapest_ Hungary if Slovakia would also build an expressway (but they won't).


It's not a priority for Slovakia for obvious reasons but they would build it if the EU would be providing 85% of the funds and those funds would not otherwise go to build another road in Slovakia. It would be particularly easy to entice Slovakia to upgrade the E77 between Banska Bystrica and the D1. North of the D1 and south of the Zvolen would probably only come after the S7 and the Hungarian M2 are more nearly complete.


----------



## MichiH

^^ The R3.sk will surely not be completed until 2030.


----------



## mcarling

MichiH said:


> ^^ The R4.sk will surely not be completed until 2030.


The R4 is much farther to the east. The expressways which will run through Slovakia along the E77 route between Krakow and Budapest are the R1 and R3. If the EU want to make them a funding priority for the 2021-2027 cycle, then that's when they'll be built. If both Poland and Hungary lobby for it, it will happen.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It is part of the easternmost EU north-south route, from the Baltics to Southeast Europe. However traffic volumes are rather low on most of the route, so I don't think it will see any significant completion before 2025, except for Lublin - Rzeszów (which will also link Warszawa with southeastern Poland).


----------



## MichiH

mcarling said:


> The R4 is much farther to the east.


Sorry. R3.sk of course .


----------



## mcarling

I expect we'll see the R1 completed to intersect with the D1 in Slovakia before 2025. Each such improvement to the E77 will reduce the number of vehicles detouring to the west to go via Bratislava, so the traffic flows will increase. Improvements to the S7 both north and south of Krakow will also increase the traffic on the E77 through Slovakia.


----------



## i15

R4 through eastern Slovakia will be completed sooner then central R3 (E77), simply because because it's shorter and cheaper. Too bad that S19 between Rzeszow and SK border is not planned before 2020.


----------



## rakcancer

i15 said:


> R4 through eastern Slovakia will be completed sooner then central R3 (E77), simply because because it's shorter and cheaper. Too bad that S19 between Rzeszow and SK border is not planned before 2020.


Not long time ago S19 from Rzeszow to SK border was as a one of the first section of S19 to be build. Let's wait because it is too much confusion so far. Section of S19 between Lublin and Rzeszow also sometimes is mentioned , sometimes disappears from the nearest plans.


----------



## javimix19

It's nice to see how Poland has advanced in the developmento of it's motorways. I have one image in my brain: motorway until Frankfurt der Oder and then, nothing. Now there is a modern motorway until Varsaw. 
I think that Poland is the next big country in Europe. Congratulations, you have a lot of potential to growth.


----------



## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> Are there plans to improve the DK6 north of the Kijewo interchange? The pavement is horrible (1930s concrete?) and there are a few at-grade intersections.


Yes, there is already an environmental decision (DŚU) but no assured funds. Szczecin department of national road agency takes small steps to improve this road - last year works on a small stretch north of Kijewo have finished.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A6 Szczecin*

Some photos of A6 around Szczecin I took last Friday.

The entire set (28 photos) can be found here @ Flickr


1.

A6-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

2. 

A6-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

3.

A6-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

4.

A6-11 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

5. crazy exit.

A6-12 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

6. 

A6-15 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

7.

A6-17 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

8.

A6-20 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

9.

A6-23 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

10.

A6-25 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

11.

A6-28 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*DK10 Ulica Struga, Szczecin*

Driving in Szczecin across DK10 / Ulica Struga, which has recently been expanded.


----------



## markfos

Very nice video, did you visit other places in Poland or only Szczecin?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I drove 350 kilometers through NW Poland. I wanted to experience all kinds of roads, so I drove via motorways, expressways, droga krajowa, droga wojewódzka and city roads. It was my first time in Poland in 10 years (I visited before in 2000 and 2003, but this was my first time driving by myself). I knew the route I wanted to drive in advance and did not use a GPS, signage in Poland is quite alright if you know the destinations and route numbers you want to follow, I wasn't lost at any time.


----------



## markfos

^^ Sounds great, I bet we can expect some more pics and videos from you.


----------



## javimix19

Wow Chris, you travel a lot, you meet all Europe, and also do you travel to other continents? That is great!!

I know that is off topic, but please only one question to this travelman.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*S61*

It looks like we have another road construction drama, Spanish FCC withdrew from the contract to construct the bypass of Szczuczyn in northeastern Poland.

According to FCC, they couldn't use the soil from the earthworks to re-use in embankments according to the tender. Reusing earth in the same projects is very common. I don't get this arguing, because they are building through normal agricultural area, not some kind of swamp. 

I think there's more to it than the claim of unusable soil. FCC acquired troubled Alpine Bau half a decade ago. Additionally, their market value on the stock market IBEX 35 plunged by more than 60% in the last year (from € 20 to less than € 8 per share). According to GDDKiA, half of the deadline for the project has expired while they only built 16% so far.


----------



## cinxxx

ChrisZwolle said:


> Driving in Szczecin across DK10 / Ulica Struga, which has recently been expanded.


Stupid GEMA is blocking the video 
Probably because of the song you choose. It's so stupid, I don't even wnat to listen to the song....


----------



## Niemiec w Polsce

I have a few questions to which i couldn't really find an answer:

1. Why do trucks have to leave the A2 at Żyradów and are not allowed to drive to Warsaw? I mean the highway is more or less finished. It seems for me really not understandable why to put the heavy traffic on the small local roads while there is a 99% functional highway going to the city.

2. What is happening on the A1 section between Stryków and Tuszyn? I read in the Polish forums that they also have some trouble there.

3. And what the heck is going on with the A1 section between Torun and Kowal? This seems to be a never-ending story. As I could understand the Italian company is not willing to pay the Polish subsidiary companies. And because they do not receive any money, almost no work is performed so far. Have I understood this well?


----------



## DammianBB

S69 three shots taken today in Bielsko-Biała near Bystrzeńska / Chabrowa street :

Direction Bielsko,


Direction Żywiec,


----------



## toonczyk

Niemiec w Polsce said:


> I have another question. Officialy they already started building the S8 stretch between Opacz and Jank małe. But so far I haven't read or heard something about this. Neither have I seen any pictures. Have they already started building?


They have to finish up the design first (it's a design and build contract), that shouldn't take too long - we should see some preliminary works starting in July/August. 


cinxxx said:


> Impreglio/Salini fucked up in Romania too, at a viaduct, am not an expert, but there is much debate on the RO forum about this...


Here it's obviously a problem of miscalculating costs and the Italians had very little to do with that - it's mostly Kobylarnia (Salini's Polish partner) who's responsible for that.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

According to GUS, there are 131.000 kilometers of unpaved roads in Poland. 

What kind of roads are these usually? I've hardly seen any unpaved roads in Poland, unless they include access roads to farmland. Apparently there is 2 kilometers of unpaved urban Droga Krajowa and 63 kilometers of unpaved rural Droga Wojewódzka. The bulk of the unpaved roads however, are communal roads (120.000 kilometers), approximately half of all communal roads in Poland are unpaved according to this data.


----------



## markfos

No idea, I only saw some unpaved roads in forests when I went for mushrooming, but Poland is densely forested so they might count these roads in forests.


----------



## Niemiec w Polsce

> Here it's obviously a problem of miscalculating costs and the Italians had very little to do with that - it's mostly Kobylarnia (Salini's Polish partner) who's responsible for that.


I see. Anyway I guess it would have been more wise to take the Strabag consortium. At least I am not aware that there were any problems of road constructions whenever this company was involved (correct me if am wrong).



> According to GUS, there are 131.000 kilometers of unpaved roads in Poland.


I can imagine this very well. Once it is true that there are many unpaved forest roads or roads through the middle of nowhere (perfect for bycling). And otherwise for example like in Germany, these roads are very often open to cars. So, i guess they are counted in. Of course daily "traffic" on those roads you can count on one hand.
Further more many new housing estate areas are without paved roads. If a new area is sold for private houses, no roads are build. Otherwise like in Germany where they first build the roads before they sell even one place.


----------



## toonczyk

Niemiec w Polsce said:


> I see. Anyway I guess it would have been more wise to take the Strabag consortium. At least I am not aware that there were any problems of road constructions whenever this company was involved (correct me if am wrong).


It's not a matter of making wise decisions, but rather decisions based on existing law. And those are the rules: contractors are responsible for calculating a proper price (including all risks), best price wins. GDDKiA is starting to mix in some other factors (minor importance like 5%) such as extended warranty, but price will always be the main factor. I don't know of any major contracts Strabag had problems with, but they are prone to delays as much as every company (for example on Łopuszańska interchange in Warsaw).


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> According to GUS, there are 131.000 kilometers of unpaved roads in Poland.
> 
> What kind of roads are these usually? I've hardly seen any unpaved roads in Poland, unless they include access roads to farmland. Apparently there is 2 kilometers of unpaved urban Droga Krajowa and 63 kilometers of unpaved rural Droga Wojewódzka. The bulk of the unpaved roads however, are communal roads (120.000 kilometers), approximately half of all communal roads in Poland are unpaved according to this data.


An obvious example of typica Polish unpaved road:
https://www.google.pl/maps?ll=53.54...=M1aU2djLlX0l9uL6ArAF0Q&cbp=12,253.8,,0,-0.48

There are also unpaved roads even in Warsaw - in the parts of the city where urban sprawl is faster than city authorities.


----------



## Niemiec w Polsce

Unfortunately you're right. Even after choosing a couple of times the "wrong" companies, there is still a risk of doing the same mistake over and over again. But this is due to the law situation. I hope the Polish authorities take in the future these bad experiences in consideration and laws are going to be changed or updated. At least they started to ban failed companies from future tenders. But it is a pity to waste 1 year of "no-construction" to correct these mistakes.
On the other hand i am always impressed of the pace here in Poland. If there a no financial problems or administration issues, a complete highway is build up in less than 2 years.
In Germany for instant you can very often read on the construction information boards along the highways. We are building for you till 2016. And this is only to change from two lanes to three lanes on a 20km stretch and it takes them at least 4 years just of pure construction.


----------



## bewu1

Today, 4 new tenders for construction of express roads in Poland were launched (total appr. 46 km).

S5 Poznań – Bydgoszcz odc. w. Mielno z węzłem - Gniezno (dk 5, w. Łubowo) (18,3 km w systemie tradycyjnym) http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/12550/Przetarg-na-budowe-kolejnego-odcinka-S5-w-Wielkopolsce-ogloszony 
S7 Warszawa – Gdańsk odc. Miłomłyn (S7) - Ostróda Północ (dw 530) (9,2 km w systemie tradycyjnym) http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/12544/Kolejny-przetarg-na-budowe-drogi-ekspresowej-S-7 
S19 Lublin – Rzeszów odc. w. Sokołów Małopolski Północ - Stobierna RZ (12,5 km w systemie optymalizuj i buduj) http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/12549/S19-na-Podkarpaciu-przetargi-na-2-odcinki-ogloszone 
S19 Lublin – Rzeszów odc. w. Świlcza (DK 4 bez węzła) - w. Rzeszów Południe (d. Kielanówka z węzłem) (6,3 km w systemie optymalizuj i buduj) http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/12549/S19-na-Podkarpaciu-przetargi-na-2-odcinki-ogloszone 

Last week, 5 new tenders were launched. There are 9 more new tenders to be launched by the end of June 2013.

Total, in June 2013, tenders for construction of 250 km of express roads were and will be launched.

In second part of 2013, tenders for construction of 480 km of express roads will be launched. 

Żródło: http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/12548/...argi-ogloszone 
__________________


----------



## E2rdEm

Niemiec w Polsce said:


> At least they started to ban failed companies from future tenders.


No-can-do.

A famous example of Alpine failing twice on A1. After first failure, the second tender was not bid by the failed company (Alpine Polska IIRC), but another one ("mother" Alpine Bau). Different company, it cannot be responsible for the previous failure, so GDDKiA were forced to allow this bid.

Lately GDDKiA tried to exclude two failed companies from the tender for S8 near Warsaw (Trasa Salomea-Wolica vel Janki bypass). They went to court, and our beloved justice ruled that "failing before does not mean that the company lacks skill or potential to build the road". :nuts: GDDKiA had to accept their bids.

So, forget it. We are stuck with out-of nowhere consortiums like Salini/Kobylarnia and companies that fail to deliver anything, they still have the right to overbid and then be kicked out of the contract... hno:


As for Astaldi - they are not completely failing on Warsaw's subway, although they have a lot of problems. Delays are in most part due to poor paperwork done by the city. There are also delays caused by technical problems, but these are bypassed by changing the schedule.

With the road building, worst scenario is when the contractor does nothing, due to his own financial or logistical problems. Astaldi seems to be pushing the work forward, so they have mostly positive image here.


----------



## MAG

ChrisZwolle said:


> According to GUS, there are 131.000 kilometers of unpaved roads in Poland ...


This is a very surprising statistic and my instinct is to say that this out by an order of magnitude. But I suspect this includes all access roads and forest roads, in which case the figures may be right, though still astonishing. 

However, Poland is a rather large country that is sparsely populated in many places. When you go off the beaten track it is common to find roads like the ones shown below, where a handful of properties are connected by 10-20 km of unpaved roads. Understandably, traffic volumes are low (~10/hr) consisting mainly of private cars, so once built these roads tend to last a long time and do not require significant maintenance.









An example of an unpaved road near Trzciel (80 km west of Poznań). The yellow signs show house numbers and point to nearby properties.










A typical large house in the countryside and its private, unpaved road



.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Think of it that there is circa 1 kilometer of unpaved road for every 2.5 km² of Poland. If you put it like that it doesn't sound much.


----------



## piotr71

It's not much comparing to Scandinavian countries. As far as I remember about half of Swedish road network consists of gravel roads. It is possible to drive constantly on such tracks for many Swedish miles.


----------



## javimix19

Some questions to Polish forumers:

- A-4, A-2 and A-1 are going to be finished in 2015 or later?

- How is undergoing Via Baltica in Poland? Is already under construction? I read that some ecologists opposed it's construction.

- And final question (this is more general and if you don't want to answer I understand it): how roads (excluding motorways) have improved in the last 15 years in Poland? I read that Poland Infraestructure 15 years ago was obsolete but now the country is doing a lot of improvements, not only in motorways but also in ordinary roads. 
Perhaps local roads are in bad condition? (is a question)

Thank you and sorry for my bad english


----------



## markfos

^^^most of main roads have been improved dramaticaly.










green - very good or good
yellow - average 
orange - below average
red - bad


----------



## HS

ChrisZwolle said:


> According to GUS, there are 131.000 kilometers of unpaved roads in Poland.
> 
> What kind of roads are these usually? I've hardly seen any unpaved roads in Poland, unless they include access roads to farmland. Apparently there is 2 kilometers of unpaved urban Droga Krajowa and 63 kilometers of unpaved rural Droga Wojewódzka. The bulk of the unpaved roads however, are communal roads (120.000 kilometers), approximately half of all communal roads in Poland are unpaved according to this data.


Very often new neighborhoods in Poland don't have paved roads because:
a) they develop too fast
b) heavy construction cars could damage paved roads
So, for instance, some unpaved roads from where I live look like that.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*DK10 Szczecin*

As you have seen, I've recently driven in Szczecin. I was wondering if there are plans to remove the remaining traffic lights between Kijewo and the bridge towards the city center. There are two busy traffic lights.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*S10 Stargard Szczeciński*

A few photos of S10 around Stargard Szczeciński.


S10-1 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


S10-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


S10-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


S10-4 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


S10-5 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


S10-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


S10-7 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


S10-8 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


S10-9 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


S10-10 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


S10-11 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


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## zagłębiak1

Stargard Szczeciński Centum
Stargard Szczeciński Zachód

Is it the most longest signs in Poland?


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## masages21

I can tell you that here(10km west of Poznan) the number of unpaved roads have decreased significantly. I've lived here for 10 years. The roads which were rather in the forests or in the fields 10 years ago are now normal residental area roads.


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## Chris80678

The S3 between Swiebodzin Poludnie and Sulechów opens tomorrow :cheers:


----------



## Superkot634

javimix19 said:


> Some questions to Polish forumers:
> 
> - A-4, A-2 and A-1 are going to be finished in 2015 or later?
> 
> - How is undergoing Via Baltica in Poland? Is already under construction? I read that some ecologists opposed it's construction.
> 
> - And final question (this is more general and if you don't want to answer I understand it): how roads (excluding motorways) have improved in the last 15 years in Poland? I read that Poland Infraestructure 15 years ago was obsolete but now the country is doing a lot of improvements, not only in motorways but also in ordinary roads.
> Perhaps local roads are in bad condition? (is a question)
> 
> Thank you and sorry for my bad english


In my experience. 

I travel on main roads (national roads). I admit that they are not bad, but sometimes sections of roads can be in a very bad condition.


----------



## Chris80678

So did the S3 between Świebodzin Południe and Sulechów open today?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nope! They have to do some auditing before it opens, possibly tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## lukaszek89

Krakow Eastern Bypass (S7)-bridge over the Vistula river



















http://www.krakow.gddkia.gov.pl/wyd...otewa-do-igoomskiej-w-krakowie-bdzie-budowana


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## rakcancer

when?


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## Poul_

^^
2015-2020


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## ChrisZwolle

*VMS*

Are these Variable Message Signs also introduced elsewhere in Poland? These photos were taken near Szczecin.


DK10-7 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


DK10-13 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


DK10-14 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


DK10-15 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*S6 Nowogard*

A video I made 10 days ago of the S6 around Nowogard.


----------



## Niemiec w Polsce

I was wondering why Boegl a Krysl was not building the A1 section around Kutno to the end. I know they were overtaking from a bankrupted company (forgot the name). Was it only in the contract to make it passable?
It would be interesting to know when they are going to finish the rest (new tender to be done?) especially the exit for Kutno.


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## TranslatorPS

#233


ChrisZwolle said:


> Are these Variable Message Signs also introduced elsewhere in Poland? These photos were taken near Szczecin.(...)


That's a local investment by the city of Szczecin (I may be wrong but I think that ZDiTM, the Road & City Transport Authority is in charge of this specifically). From the shots alone it's rather clear that it's city-access ortiented 
However, as for the actual question, I'll leave it to other users as, myself, I'm not aware of these (RGB) signs elsewhere (although you may find text-only displays on certain major roads in major cities' vicinities, and Cracow springs to mind here).


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## masages21

There is something similar in DK 7 (Zakopianka).


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## Kemo

> - A-4, A-2 and A-1 are going to be finished in 2015 or later?


A4 will be finished in 2014/2015
A2 - no one knows when  Most likely not before 2020.
A1 - according to an optimistic scenario it could be finished in 2016/2017, pessimistic - near 2020


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## Poul_

^^
A2 from Warsaw to east border is not necessary now, and won't be in near future


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## bad_boy

^^To be exact it is needed for yesterday between Warsaw and currently existing A2 bypass of Mińsk Mazowiecki. AADT there is over 20,000 now, and the prognosis for 2015 is 27,000.

The rest towards east I can tentatively agree has lower priority.

To illutrate, eastern traffic on A2 from Warsaw by DK50 (Mińsk Mazowecki) is bigger, and is prognosed to be bigger, than the traffic on western part of A2 from Warsaw by DK50 (Wiskitki).

If S2 is tendered in 2014/15, the missing link of A2 to Mińsk Mazowiecki will also be tendered.


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## markfos

ChrisZwolle said:


> Are these Variable Message Signs also introduced elsewhere in Poland? These photos were taken near Szczecin.


As mentioned before there is sth similar between Kraków and Zakopane (on so called "Zakopianka" road).


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## mcarling

bad_boy said:


> If S2 is tendered in 2014/15, the missing link of A2 to Mińsk Mazowiecki will also be tendered.


I would be surprised if completion of the S2 is not among the projects tendered early in the 2014-2020 EU budget cycle. In my opinion, it would make sense to complete the S2 and the A2 as far as Mińsk Mazowiecki first and then re-evaluate traffic levels further east before setting the priorities of A2 sections farther east.


----------



## lukaszek89

> *FCC's Alpine Bau files for insolvency*
> 
> (Reuters) - Alpine Bau GmbH, the main Austrian construction unit of Spanish group FCC, has filed for insolvency, a spokesman for parent group Alpine Holding said.
> 
> "The application was filed," the spokesman said. "It applies in the first instance for Alpine Bau."
> 
> Alpine, which employs around 15,000 staff, said late on Tuesday it had failed to strike a deal with creditors to reorganise its debt


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/19/fcc-alpine-bankruptcy-idUSWEB006W620130619


----------



## javimix19

Kemo said:


> A1 - according to an optimistic scenario it could be finished in 2016/2017, pessimistic - near 2020


Thank you for your answer. I see that there is a stretch unfinished between Gdansk and Lodz (the stretch between Torun and Gostynin). Is this part already under construction?


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## ChrisZwolle

Is S5 around Rawicz the only larger road construction project of Alpine in Poland?

Of course there are more issues. FCC is in trouble as well (which is Alpine's parent company) and Polimex, another large constructor, is also in trouble, their S69 project is significantly behind schedule.


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## kmieciu

*S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów*

Interchange "Sulechów"










Interchange "Świebodzin North" - Interchange "Sulechów" map





Interchange "Sulechów" - Interchange "Jordanowo" map


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## aswnl

Hard shoulders, a median and grade seperated junctions are not only reserved for motorways. Motorway design is much more the complete alignment of a road.


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## MichiH

^^ Of course. But if one characteristic is not existing, it cannot be a motorway!


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## aswnl

That's incorrect. A hard shoulder is a standard design component for motorways, but in most countries it is not compulsory for placing a motorway-sign..


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## Sasza

MichiH said:


> ^^ Of course. But if one characteristic is not existing, it cannot be a motorway!


Eh. There are still few roads in Europe that shouldn't be highways but they are. A4 got everything that Autostrada needs. Hard shoulders are needed but not necessary.


----------



## MichiH

aswnl said:


> That's incorrect. A hard shoulder is a standard design component for motorways, but in most countries it is not compulsory for placing a motorway-sign..


So why not signing the Polish S3 as A3? For instance in Germany there are many Autobahns without hard shoulders, with a lot of interchanges on a short distance or with a mediocre alignment.



Sasza said:


> Eh. There are still few roads in Europe that shouldn't be highways but they are. A4 got everything that Autostrada needs. Hard shoulders are needed but not necessary.


That's also my opinion  - as aforementioned:



MichiH said:


> But I think it doesn't matter. I don't give a tinker's damn about it. *Motorway standard does only mean that the road has at least two carriageways with at least 2 lanes in each direction and is grade-separated.* I think all Polish S roads should be signed as A roads. The same in other countries like Czech Republic, Austria, Italy, Slovenia, Germany,... Pasta!


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## aswnl

No, motorway standard is MORE than just a 4-lane grade-seperated two carriageway road. One of the most important design characteristics is in the alignment of the road, as I mentioned before. And coming on topic again, that's also the reason why there are D and R roads in CZ, and A- and S-roads in PL.


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## volodaaaa

aswnl said:


> No, motorway standard is MORE than just a 4-lane grade-seperated two carriageway road. One of the most important design characteristics is in the alignment of the road, as I mentioned before. And coming on topic again, that's also the reason why there are D and R roads in CZ, and A- and S-roads in PL.


That is right. In Czech republic and Slovakia D stands for "dálnice/diaľnica" = motorway and R "rýchlostní/á cesta" = "expressway". There are some differences.

For example in Slovakia:


Expressways may have smaller curve radius.
 Expressways may have higher cant.
Minimum width of expressway is 22,5 m (27,5 in motorway) in case of Slovakia
In same exceptional cases, expressways may have level-crossings with traffic lights.
Morover, in some other coutries, there are different general speed limits for expressway and motorway.


Traveled many of European countries, I find the difference between expressways and motorways noticeable. The exemplary case is hungarian M0 expressway


----------



## bad_boy

The real point is that many expressways are build in compliance with motorway standards (like S3 or S8 east of Wrocław or R35 east of Olomouc), or even roads signed as DK are build in compliance with modern expressway standards (like DK16).

Signing underperforming roads as motorways in all of Europe is common and results from gradually upgrading motorway standards for newly constructed motorways. That's why some roads signed as motorways in the past do not meet modern motorway standards.

A4 from intersection with A18 towards Wrocław will be featured with hard shoulder (and possibly third lane in the package) in the future. No exact dates though...


----------



## MichiH

aswnl said:


> No, motorway standard is MORE than just a 4-lane grade-seperated two carriageway road.


But what is the *practical *difference for the road users? Why must drivers be advised that it is a different road type? I think is it only necessary to realize what I aforementioned. That is the most important thing that helps me to find a route for a trip. If the alignment is too dangerous, you can reduce the speed limit on that sections. Reduced speed limits does exist on all kinds of roads.


----------



## MichiH

bad_boy said:


> Signing underperforming roads as motorways in all of Europe is common and results from gradually upgrading motorway standards for newly constructed motorways. That's why some roads signed as motorways in the past do not meet modern motorway standards.


Of course. But it's stupid!

An example: An old road was built as a motorway, is signed as motorway. A new road will be built according to new expressway standards. That kind of roads have often the same or even better standard as the old motorway. But they will be signed as an expressway. The mad is, that the old motorway will *remain signed as a motorway*!

Well, in addition I am a little bit disgruntled because I live in Germany and our expressways are signed as normal highways (2x1 road, B road), our stupid "Yellow Autobahns". That differs with Poland, Czech Republic,...


----------



## volodaaaa

MichiH said:


> Of course. But it's stupid!
> 
> An example: An old road was built as a motorway, is signed as motorway. A new road will be built according to new expressway standards. That kind of roads have often the same or even better standard as the old motorway. But they will be signed as an expressway. The mad is, that the old motorway will *remain signed as a motorway*!
> 
> Well, in addition I am a little bit disgruntled because I live in Germany and our expressways are signed as normal highways (2x1 road, B road), our stupid "Yellow Autobahns". That differs with Poland, Czech Republic,...


I don't like to confuse you a little bit more, but :lol::lol::lol::lol: what is motorway according to traffic signs doesn't have to be motorway according to numbering. 

In Slovakia, and I bet in other countries, as an expressway could be marked common 1x2 lane road as well. However, it is a good quality primary road. I know there is a lot of expressways in Lower Austria though they are nothing but primary roads with speed limits of an expressway.


----------



## Kemo

MichiH said:


> Of course. But it's stupid!
> 
> An example: An old road was built as a motorway, is signed as motorway. A new road will be built according to new expressway standards. That kind of roads have often the same or even better standard as the old motorway. But they will be signed as an expressway. The mad is, that the old motorway will *remain signed as a motorway*!
> 
> Well, in addition I am a little bit disgruntled because I live in Germany and our expressways are signed as normal highways (2x1 road, B road), our stupid "Yellow Autobahns". That differs with Poland, Czech Republic,...


Yes, I agree that it is stupid. Technically, this stretch of A4 doesn't even have a S class (because S roads in Poland also need to have hard shoulder).
There are some minor differences between A and S class in Poland, but still Polish S class is as good (or even better) as A classes in many other countries.
There are also differences between S roads built from scratch and "normal roads" upgraded to S. The latter often have a lot of junctions, some of them even have bus stops.


markfos said:


> This old part of A4 was renovated few years ago, but it was impossible to add shoulders on this stretch because of the construction of these viaducts.


Actually, it seems, that the viaducts are the only places that have hard shoulder (not all of them) 
https://maps.google.de/maps?saddr=A..._jrS8KcYZunAXqsxHXQv8g&cbp=12,148.87,,0,14.72
https://maps.google.de/maps?saddr=A...URs7ciXwCYL9aW0DzBp8Zw&cbp=12,117.93,,0,18.62


----------



## LMB

MichiH said:


> But what is the *practical *difference for the road users? Why must drivers be advised that it is a different road type? I think is it only necessary to realize what I aforementioned. That is the most important thing that helps me to find a route for a trip. If the alignment is too dangerous, you can reduce the speed limit on that sections. Reduced speed limits does exist on all kinds of roads.


The type of the road determines my driving style. The difference is that on a motorway (A) I know that I can safely drive the Bavarian style:lol:, while on S roads I know to expect occasional obstacle from the last epoch, like a low-radios curve on a hump (see link). I see no sense in it other than a slight message that the road is narrower and bit curvier. Really not a deal. 


I only wish that in Germany there were similar hints on highway maps, so that one could avoid sh*t places like Saarland, where "highways" resemble rollercoasters, with occasional speed limits of 60 (!), or one-lane sections. It would be to the benefit to manual routing, and would save me the shock of seeing Saarbrücken or Völklingenhno:. 


As for routing in Poland, the difference in classification is so small, and the situation where A would compete with S so rare, that it practically makes no difference. I have already corrected four-lane S on openstreetmap.org as "motorway", but was overriden for no specific reason. 


Link: Looks innocent, but is quite sharp: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.3335&lon=17.018&zoom=16&layers=M
(where the number 289 is)


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## ChrisZwolle

Is there an ETA on the S8 completion around Mszczonów? I see that Mostostal is the contractor, aren't they in financial difficulties? Progress appears to be slow, the rest of S8 was completed a while ago.

_Planowana data zakończenia robót: III kw. 2012 r._

This was not achieved obviously.


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## Kemo

^^ There was a problem with a short stretch with a house near the escarpment (you can see some photos here). They should however finish it in a month. The rest seems to be complete.


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## rakcancer

*A1*

Infamous bridge in Mszana on A1 will be fixed by Polish company INTERCOR.
http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/1833/aktualnosci
Bridge should be open for traffic in the begging of 2014.
http://wyborcza.biz/biznes/1,100896...a_naprawe_autostradowego_mostu.html#BoxBizTxt


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## rakcancer

Found this interesting. Planned network of motorways and expressways in Poland.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## ChrisZwolle

Is S16 really off the table? Some parts of DK16 are being reconstructed to virtual droga ekspresowa standards.


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## rakcancer

I don't remember it has ever been planned as S road.


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## Surel

rakcancer said:


> Infamous bridge in Mszana on A1 will be fixed by Polish company INTERCOR.
> http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/1833/aktualnosci
> Bridge should be open for traffic in the begging of 2014.
> http://wyborcza.biz/biznes/1,100896...a_naprawe_autostradowego_mostu.html#BoxBizTxt


I read that the costs should be covered by the guaranty of Alpine. I have a question, how does this guaranty look like?

1) Is it just that the GDDKiA withhold some payment to the Alpine?

2) Or did Alpine made actually also some deposit by the GDDKiA which won't be refunded?

I would like to know this in order to get the idea about how are similar situations managed by GDDKiA. I would in general assume that payments for the work are withhold and paid with a delay just after the work is checked. In this way the ordering party would only pay for the work that is done. But even so in a situation like this, it would not be enough. The ordering party would refuse the last payment, but it would already incur some additional losses. In order to move the risk on the contractor, I would require both: withholding payments till the work is checked as done, and a security deposit, for the case that contractor leaves the work undone, to be able to cover the increase in costs due to having to find another contractor, etc.

The ordering party could of course demand the additional costs from Alpine, but assuming that most probably if a contractor left the construction it would be bankrupt as well, this is not really secure enough.

Anyway, I hope for 2014!!


----------



## katsuma

Surel said:


> I read that the costs should be covered by the guaranty of Alpine. I have a question, how does this guaranty look like?
> 
> 1) Is it just that the GDDKiA withhold some payment to the Alpine?
> 
> 2) Or did Alpine made actually also some deposit by the GDDKiA which won't be refunded?
> 
> I would like to know this in order to get the idea about how are similar situations managed by GDDKiA. I would in general assume that payments for the work are withhold and paid with a delay just after the work is checked. In this way the ordering party would only pay for the work that is done. But even so in a situation like this, it would not be enough. The ordering party would refuse the last payment, but it would already incur some additional losses. In order to move the risk on the contractor, I would require both: withholding payments till the work is checked as done, and a security deposit, for the case that contractor leaves the work undone, to be able to cover the increase in costs due to having to find another contractor, etc.
> 
> The ordering party could of course demand the additional costs from Alpine, but assuming that most probably if a contractor left the construction it would be bankrupt as well, this is not really secure enough.
> 
> Anyway, I hope for 2014!!


I'd imagine we are talking about _gwarancja bankowa_ (bank guarantee) here, which would be a certain amount guaranteed by the issuer's bank in respect of the due diligent completion of a contract by the tender's winning party.

Since the project was not completed by Alpine with due diligence as stipulated by the contract, it (contract) was cancelled and the proceeds from bank guarantee have been taken over by GDDKiA.

PS. Other Polish forumers: pls. feel free to correct me, if I am wrong.


----------



## Strzala

*S12/S17/S19 Lublin bypass* foto GDDKiA http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/12122/...owie-2013-roku
:



>


----------



## bad_boy

katsuma said:


> I'd imagine we are talking about _gwarancja bankowa_ (bank guarantee) here, which would be a certain amount guaranteed by the issuer's bank in respect of the due diligent completion of a contract by the tender's winning party.
> 
> Since the project was not completed by Alpine with due diligence as stipulated by the contract, it (contract) was cancelled and the proceeds from bank guarantee have been taken over by GDDKiA.
> 
> PS. Other Polish forumers: pls. feel free to correct me, if I am wrong.


Yes, you are correct. Bank guarantees are used as security for the preformance of the construction contracts. These are uselfull devices because they work even in case of bankruptcy of the contractor (the issuing bank is still solvent). In this case GDDKiA called on the guarantee and got fresh cash disbursed by the bank.

Personally I work for some Czech and Slovak banks worried that GDDKiA is going to call on the guarantees issued at the request of Czech and Slovak subcontractors in projects lead by Polimex-Mostostal as the general contractor around Poland. These guys (bankers) really can't sleep because this can happen anytime seeing what PMX is doing (or should I say: not doing). If not state aid to PMX (too big to fail story...) these guarantees would be drawn already. We will see, if it happens this will be the first sign they are going to kick out PMX from A1, A4 and S69.


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## Surel

@Katsuma, @bad boy

TY.


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## swiety_76

MichiH said:


> So why not signing the Polish S3 as A3?


Differences between polish expressways (Droga ekspresowa, S type road)
and polish motorways (Autostrada, A type road)

Lane width:
A 3,75m S 3,5m

hard shoulder width:
A 3m S 2,5m

Maximum speed limit:
A 140 km/h S 120 km/h

Minimum disatance between interchanges:

A 15km (conditionally 5 km)
S 5 (3)
in urban area
A 5 (3)
S 3 (1,5)

Thats all

All other parameters (curve radius etc) are the same for both A and S type road

of course in Poland exist 1/2 profile exspressways (about 20% of all exspressways) but max speed limit is 100 km/h for them

These rules have been in Poland for 20 years so any new controlled-access highway with lane width less than 3,75m and hard shoulder less than 3m can't be signed as motorway (like S3).
Unless polish goverment downgrade minimal standards for motorways as for exspressways 


Of course these rules doesn't suit to old roads like A4 section between Wrocław and Legnica (built in 30' XX century). This road has been always signed as motorway. It doens't suit new polish standards even for exspressways but they didn't decide to downgrade this road.
Of cours it was renovated but in this process they didn't build hard shoulder.
It will be rebuild with hard shoulder in next few years.

What is reason to build two types controlled acces higway with minimal differences ?

1) Price. Differences are minimal so prices too
Since 2008 average build cost in Poland
for A road 40M polish zloty S road 35M polish zloty (3,2 USD = 1 polish zloty)
although it's hard to say because spread is from 20M to 200M
but sometimes exspressway can be more expensive than motorway because usually exspressway has more interchanges.

2) Polish law
Almost all section of polish motoways are or will be toll roads (excluding some bypasses of bigger cities like A4 in Katowice or Krakow or A8 in Wroclaw) and many sections of polish motorways are private.
So this little difference between motorway and expsressway is excuse to gathering toll

All toll road should have free alternative national road (Droga krajowa - DK)
For A1 it's DK 91 (former DK 1) for A2 it's DK92 (former DK 2) 
Some sections of A6 near Szczecin or A18 to border with Germany doens't have alternative road so they won't be toll road

But all polish expsressways are or will be toll road for vehicles heavier than 3,5T in electonical system of gathering toll called Viatoll

Many polish exspressways were or will be upgraded from existing national roads. Sometimes some section of old nation road change in to exspressway sometimes all section like
S8 from Piotrkow (interchange with A1 to Warsaw - former dual carriageway)
S7 from Warsaw to Radom, S8 form Warsaw to Bialystok or S17 from Warsaw to Lublin (former single carriageway) and these roads have many interchanges
So because former national road changed into exspressway then it doesn't have alternative road so can't be toll road

Both S3 and S8 were previously planned as motorways (S3 even was built in corridor planned motorway). But expected AADT far less than 30k decided that they won't be toll motorways but expsressways

Curious fact is that in northern section of S3 and many section of S8 between Wroclaw and Lodz distance between interchanges are like for motorways and interchanges are trumpets (when for exspressways interchanges with minor roads are usually partial cloverleaf)
For toll motorways interchanges with minor roads are trumpets because it's easiest way to collect toll in closed system so both S3 and S8 can be easily upgraded to toll motorways.


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## Dantiscum

News from GDDKiA: Today 4 new tenders for the following stretches will be announced: 
S7 Ostróda – Olsztynek 
S5 Korzeńsko – węzeł Widawa Wrocław


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## rakcancer

Polish motorways and expressways from 2000 to 2013:
Green - in use
Red - under construction



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## rakcancer

Managing polish motorways:



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Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## rakcancer

Tolling system in Poland:



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## Kemo

swiety_76 said:


> Differences between polish expressways (Droga ekspresowa, S type road)
> and polish motorways (Autostrada, A type road)
> 
> Lane width:
> A 3,75m S 3,5m
> 
> hard shoulder width:
> A 3m S 2,5m
> 
> Maximum speed limit:
> A 140 km/h S 120 km/h
> 
> Minimum disatance between interchanges:
> 
> A 15km (conditionally 5 km)
> S 5 (3)
> in urban area
> A 5 (3)
> S 3 (1,5)
> 
> Thats all


Actually A class road can have 3,5m wide lanes, especially if it has 3 lanes (or if it is "near a big city"). So, for example, the only difference between A8 Wrocław bypass and S8 towards Łódź is that A8 has 3 lanes and S8 has 2.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Is S16 really off the table? Some parts of DK16 are being reconstructed to virtual droga ekspresowa standards.


Exactly  The fact that there is no S16 in the official plan is not a problem.


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## Rombi

Anyone can tell me why in Poland we haven't got vignette system? Is it possible to purchase one year ticket for all highways in Poland?


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## Sasza

^^
Because when it had been proposed poeople protested. I still can remember some guy in TV who was talking somethig like that "there are no highways or good roads in Poland, so why we should pay!?". But that was years ago.


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## jwojcie

that was just bad timing for a good idea


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## bad_boy

Today GDDKiA officially announced tenders for five new projects (70 kilometers in total):

*S5 Wrocław - Poznań*

Korzeńsko – Wrocław North - 50 kilometers in three projects;

*S7 Warszawa - Gdańsk*

Ostróda South – Olsztynek - 20 kilometers in two projects.

Assuming no delays the projects should be completed in late 2016.


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## bewu1

bad_boy said:


> Today GDDKiA officially announced tenders for five new projects (70 kilometers in total):
> 
> *S5 Wrocław - Poznań*
> 
> Korzeńsko – Wrocław North - 50 kilometers in three projects;
> 
> *S7 Warszawa - Gdańsk*
> 
> Ostróda South – Olsztynek - 20 kilometers in two projects.
> 
> Assuming no delays the projects should be completed in late 2016.


In June 2013, GDDIKA announced tenders for appr. 250 km of new expressways http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=104512035&postcount=10106 and http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=104286744&postcount=10068, and http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=103981206&postcount=9968.

Great month !


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## Rombi

Sasza said:


> ^^
> Because when it had been proposed poeople protested. I still can remember some guy in TV who was talking somethig like that "there are no highways or good roads in Poland, so why we should pay!?". But that was years ago.


So that was like kicking your own ass. Today you have to pay for every section of highway you rode and you can't buy sth like one year vignette. THAT SICK!! It's not funny at all...
Am I right that we are the only Europe with such a f***ing idea?


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## Sasza

Rombi said:


> So that was like kicking your own ass. Today you have to pay for every section of highway you rode and you can't buy sth like one year vignette. THAT SICK!! It's not funny at all...
> Am I right that we are the only Europe with such a f***ing idea?


That's french idea, so we are not alone. There are few other countries.


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## Eulanthe

Rombi said:


> So that was like kicking your own ass. Today you have to pay for every section of highway you rode and you can't buy sth like one year vignette. THAT SICK!! It's not funny at all...
> Am I right that we are the only Europe with such a f***ing idea?


No, you're completely wrong.

France, Spain, Italy, Poland, Greece, Serbia, Croatia, Belarus, Bosnia (at least) all have tolling systems rather than vignettes. 

Vignettes make sense in big counties with heavy car transit traffic, but they probably wouldn't make the revenue in Poland needed to build everything if they weren't using typical tolling.


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## geogregor

Eulanthe said:


> No, you're completely wrong.
> 
> Vignettes make sense in big counties with heavy car transit traffic, but they probably wouldn't make the revenue in Poland needed to build everything if they weren't using typical tolling.


On a contrary, vignettes make more sense in small transit countries with heavy transit.

Anyway revenue from any tolling system is rather for everyday maintenance than building new network. Costs of building vast new network, like in Poland, will never be covered by tolling.


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## Kemo

A1 between "Zabrze North" junction and Resting area "Wieszowa".

Direcition: Baltic Sea









Direction: Mediterranean Sea


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## Anaheim

Kemo said:


> Direcition: Baltic Sea
> Direction: Mediterranean Sea


Northbound and Southbound! You forgot what cardinal directions are?! hno:


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## Niemiec w Polsce

I have posted this question already once and couldn't find any answer. What will happen with the not finished A1 section around Kutno (missing rest areas, bridges for local roads and exit of Kutno). Has a new tender to be done? And why was it not built to the end on the frist place. Was it only a contract with Boegl a Krysl to make it passable after the first company failed?

Another question. How will be the tolling around Czerniewice be organized? The current Amber One toll gate at Nowa Wies will stay?


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## rakcancer

Damn, I hate that new Google maps. They again don't show expressways in Poland when you zoom in. Find any in the image below::bash:



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## Dyziol84

S8 and S7

Express route's take an "S" before the number.


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## Sasza

That is not the point...


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## Strzala

Anaheim said:


> Northbound and Southbound! You forgot what cardinal directions are?! hno:


 Baltic & Mediterranean Sea direction sounds more classy


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## Blaskovitz

Strzala said:


> Baltic & Mediterranean Sea direction sounds more classy


Exactly! One road, two seas. Perfect connection!


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## Anaheim

Strzala said:


> Baltic & Mediterranean Sea direction sounds more classy


But you did a mistake.. You can drive route 1 to Baltic sea (literally..  ) but driving opposite way from Zabrze, as you say to Mediterranean Sea, would lead you Praha, CZ! A1 is becoming D1 in CZ and leads to Praga. Part of A1 in Silesia is not an European Route E75 which ends in Greece at Mediterranean Sea 



Blaskovitz said:


> Exactly! One road, two seas. Perfect connection!


One road from Zabrze leads to Praha..  If you want to go at Mediterranean Sea you need to take southbound highway in Olomouc through Brno and then through Austria or Slovenia


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## rakcancer

Sasza said:


> That is not the point...


Exactly!
The point is Google Maps Polska is a mess...


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## bad_boy

Anaheim said:


> But you did a mistake.. You can drive route 1 to Baltic sea (literally..  ) but driving opposite way from Zabrze, as you say to Mediterranean Sea, would lead you Praha, CZ! A1 is becoming D1 in CZ and leads to Praga. *Part of A1 in Silesia is not an European Route E75 which ends in Greece at Mediterranean Sea*
> 
> 
> 
> One road from Zabrze leads to Praha..  If you want to go at Mediterranean Sea *you need to take southbound highway in Olomouc through Brno and then through Austria or Slovenia*


But you made a mistake... D1 does not go via Olomouc, not to mention that E75 does not lead the route you mention. Cheer up a bit. Someone posts nice pics here and you jump with such a ridiculous post! :wave:


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## Anaheim

^^ Yea.. You are right about Olomouc I just mistaken it with how E462 goes, but doesn't change a fact that it leads to Praha and E75 DOES lead to Greece - ends in Sitia.
Sure those are nice pics but listed wrong, it's like southbound direction was signed as leading to ex Salzburg - you can still go there via this route but you need to take several others. So it's not so ridiculous, thanks anyway..


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## swiety_76

rakcancer said:


> I don't remember it has ever been planned as S road.


Last time it was in official goverment program in late 80' early 90' then dissapeared


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## rakcancer

That was looooong time ago........


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## Kemo

Anaheim said:


> Sure those are nice pics but listed wrong, it's like southbound direction was signed as leading to ex Salzburg - you can still go there via this route but you need to take several others. So it's not so ridiculous, thanks anyway..


Well, you are right, but most drivers from Poland will not use this road to get to Praha or Olomouc, only to Italy/Croatia


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## masages21

Maybe he comitted a mistake... But still all of us know what he meant, right?


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## Niemiec w Polsce

> I have posted this question already once and couldn't find any answer. What will happen with the not finished A1 section around Kutno (missing rest areas, bridges for local roads and exit of Kutno). Has a new tender to be done? And why was it not built to the end on the frist place. Was it only a contract with Boegl a Krysl to make it passable after the first company failed?
> 
> Another question. How will be the tolling around Czerniewice be organized? The current Amber One toll gate at Nowa Wies will stay?


Nobody has information for this topic???


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## Niemiec w Polsce

Some update of the A1 constructions:

For the section of A1 between Strykow and Tuszyn it looks really bad. Almost nothing is moving on and the sub-contractor Strabag, responsible for bridges, is already removing their equipment from the construction site. Polimex starts already looking for a new partner.

For the section between Torun and Kowal finally we see some movement. But still it's far away of what it should be. Too less people and equipment and progress is only little.


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## Kemo

Niemiec w Polsce said:


> I have posted this question already once and couldn't find any answer. What will happen with the not finished A1 section around Kutno (missing rest areas, bridges for local roads and exit of Kutno). Has a new tender to be done? And why was it not built to the end on the frist place. Was it only a contract with Boegl a Krysl to make it passable after the first company failed?
> 
> Another question. How will be the tolling around Czerniewice be organized? The current Amber One toll gate at Nowa Wies will stay?


1. They are going to announce a tender for finishing this section. When? I guess nobody knows.
(News from 4th of June: )


> Generalna Dyrekcja Dróg Krajowych i Autostrad: na dniach ma być ogłoszony przetarg na dokończenie prac po upadłym POLDIMie. Zakres tych prac obejmuje m.in. budowę łącznic na węźle Kutno- Wschód i dokończenie robót na MOP-ach Krzyżanów (Wschód i Zachód) oraz kilku wiaduktach nad autostradą. Jak tylko zostanie rozstrzygnięty, wyłoniony wykonawca będzie mógł niezwłocznie przystąpić do prac. Oceniamy, że cały zakres przedsięwzięcia zajmie około roku.


2. This (tolling system) is also unknown. Check out the discussion here.


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## javimix19

I don't understand why the new motorways and expressways in Poland have tolls. In Spain we don't have tolls in new expressways constructed since the late 80's (when we started to built motorways with money of the EU). Ok, there are some few exceptions, but very little motorways constructed since the late 80's have tolls.

It's not possible in Poland to build motorways without tolls? Poland is constructing now the largest motorways in Europe. I think it has the same situation than Spain in the 90's, it's receiving a lot of founds of EU.


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## Kemo

^^ Most motorways (the so called "expressways") are tolled only for heavy trucks (>3,5t)

Only 3 routes (A1, A2, A4) are tolled for all cars.


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## Chris80678

toonczyk said:


> S79 is basically ready, except for a few things missing on Marynarska interchange. It looks just like in the photo above all the way to Warszawa Południe (ex-Lotnisko) interchange, where it connects with S2. They won't open it until the whole S2 is ready, which _should_ happen in 2-3 months.
> 
> S2 between Konotopa (A2, S8) and Al. Krakowska will open in ~2 weeks. East of Al. Krakowska they're also finishing it up, right now we're basically waiting for one delayed culvert (they only started building it 3 months ago because it turned out geotechnical conditions were different than expected and the design had to be changed). You can see what it looks like here.


Thanks for the update. Warsaw will finally have some form of a proper southern bypass soon :cheers:


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## rakcancer

Chris80678 said:


> Thanks for the update. Warsaw will finally have some form of a proper southern bypass soon :cheers:


 just one half. we will wait quite a bit for another half


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## maciek2000

rakcancer said:


> just one half. we will wait quite a bit for another half


An optimist would say: A full *WESTERN* bypass.


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## makaveli6

Which parts of S2 are already open and which are still U/C?


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## ChrisZwolle

No segment of S2 opened yet.


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## makaveli6

Ok, now I see that the discussion above is also about S2, when will the segment between Roads 79 and Road 17 be constructed?


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## rakcancer

Theoretically this is one of the task on priority list for next 5 years but this part of S2 is complex. There is a need to built over kilometer long tunnel across Ursynow and then bridge over the Wisla river. On the top of that there was a big resistance of people living in Ursynow protesting against that project. However now after S2 is just on the outskirts of Ursynow I don't see any other option to make bypass of that place.


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## ChrisZwolle

*S10 Stargard Szczeciński*

Another video I made in June, the S10 around Stargard Szczeciński.


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## lukaszek89

Former COVEC (Chinese company that failed to build A2 motorway in Poland) boss, Liu Zhijun is sentenced to death (corruption). Sentence suspended for two years, but Liu will spend at least 10 years in jail as Xi Jinping's corruption crackdown bites.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/08/liu-zhijun-sentenced-death-corruption


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## Haveblue

BTW did we reclaim bank guarantee for their failure on A2 ?


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## kmieciu

Whole open section A2 interchange "Jordanowo" - S3 interchange "Sulechów", enjoy. 






source


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## Chris80678

Video doesn't play error


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## keokiracer

Chris80678 said:


> Video doesn't play error


Youtube is slow. Go to the youtube page of the video and refresh a couple of times.


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## jtybinka

*Google super specialist*

Looks that some management in google maps wants to prove that they are creative, proactive, intelligent and they are always improving to be on top.
Now according to google maps narrow 6 metres wide village road DK36 is the same standard as S3 Szczecin Gorzow :bash:
They made all DK road looking same as expressways.
That`s the corporate philisophy , you may be doing stupid things but you must have VISIBILITY - that`s most important

....or maybe according to google Poland has 10 000 km expressways - that you can see on google map as well
sorry - this is almost 20 000 km of expressways in Poland now


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## rakcancer

Google Maps Polska sucks.... Recently they either don't know what is going on in Poland or they have total mess in their organisation or they just can't make up theirs mind how to show expressways in Poland.


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## ChrisZwolle

Corporate policy is to use only three road types; motorways, main roads and secondary roads. For some reason it was thought best to show controlled acces highways without motorway status (such as expressways) as main roads. 

I agree it's a complete failure on Google's part. Not to mention inconsistent, all freeways in the U.S. with State Highway and US Highway classification are still shown as freeways and not as regular roads, as they should have been, according to the European layout they used. Which would mean cities like Los Angeles and New York would lose over half of their freeways on the map.


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## jtybinka

*"improving"*

All was good , why the hell they must be always improving


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## rakcancer

On the top of that the way of showing depends and changes with zoom level:


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*ANNOYING!!!*hno::bash:


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## mcarling

Apple Maps is also not perfect but, in my opinion, a lot better than Google Maps most of the time. More important, again in my opinion, Apple Maps are quickly fixing their mistakes, where Google Maps are busy adding new mistakes.


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## keokiracer

OpenStreetMap for the win


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## mcarling

If one is only interested in the roads, without need for directions or places of interest, then OpenStreetMap is by far the best -- with the added bonus of showing roads under construction. If anyone knows how to get turn-by-turn directions out of OpenStreetMap, I would love to know.


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## rakcancer

OpenStreetMap is accurate but on the downside is hard to read. In standard mode motorways, expressways and regular roads are distinguished just by use of different colors while thickness of lines is the same. It makes map flat and doesn't show importance of motorways/expressways over regular roads.Also using green color for expressways makes them almost invisible.


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## ChrisZwolle

OSM is very up to date but its accuracy is quite poor outside Europe and North America. I also agree about the coloring, it's just too much. I also could do with some less details, parts of OSM are overly detailed and not consistent everywhere.


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## Chris80678

On OSM the motorways are clear enough but when expressways pass through or near forests they are invisible until you zoom right in because both expressways and forest are green


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## rakcancer

del


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## rakcancer

ChrisZwolle said:


> OSM is very up to date but its accuracy is quite poor outside Europe and North America. I also agree about the coloring, it's just too much. I also could do with some less details, parts of OSM are overly detailed and not consistent everywhere.


....and that forestation  too much....


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## Chris80678

rakcancer said:


> ....and that forestation  too much....


I agree. Expressways under construction shown as just dashes not brilliant either


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## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> OSM is very up to date but its accuracy is quite poor outside Europe and North America.


Plus Israel, Singapore, and probably a few others. I haven't checked Hong Kong, but I would guess it's probably good too.


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## Janek0

mcarling said:


> If anyone knows how to get turn-by-turn directions out of OpenStreetMap, I would love to know.


Online: http://map.project-osrm.org/
PC/mobile offline navigation: http://navigatorfree.mapfactor.com/


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## mcarling

*Bratislava - Warsaw tomorrow*

I will be driving from Bratislava to Warsaw tomorrow. My tentative plan is Bratislava - Zilina - Cieszyn (938) Zory (A1) Pyrzowice (DK1/S8) Warsaw. Any suggestions or warnings?


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## MAG

mcarling said:


> ... Any suggestions or warnings?


From first-hand personal experience, I would recommend using the D2/D1 on the SK/CZ side, going through Brno, Olomouc and Ostrava, if you don't mind paying for the Czech vignette. Then head for Gliwice on the A1 on the Polish side. In my opinion, the driving experience is much better going this way and since you intend to drive approximately 700 km you need as much of a stress-free journey as you can get.

Going this way is a little quicker in time (not in km) because you avoid congestion spots such as Bielsko-Biała and the whole Tychy-Dąbrowa Górnicza stretch, which can be unpredictable.

Having said that, going via Zilina, Cieszyn, Bielsko-Biała etc is still a pretty good choice, just subject to the ups and downs of the rush-hour crunch that we seem to get these days.

Any advice for you? Just one - enjoy the trip!




.


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## mcarling

Thanks MAG. 

I don't mind paying for a CZ vignette (although I'm annoyed to have to stop to buy one). I've tried the CZ D2/D1 route several times and find it stressful. The road quality does not suffice for the traffic speeds for much of the trip.

Perhaps I was not clear about my proposed route. I was not planning to go through Bielsko-Biała or near the Tychy-Dąbrowa Górnicza stretch. My tentative plan is to exit the S1 immediately after Cieszyn and take route 938 north to route 81 north to Zory, then route 935 northwest to get on the A1.


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## bad_boy

^^I am driving on Warsaw - Bratislava route at least once a month for years. Tried every route and I can confirm that going via Brno and Ostrava is the way to go for the time being. Longer but faster. You can try going via Žilina at nite but still... Also depends how fast you drive (200+, 160 or 130 km/h?). The faster you drive the better it is to go via Brno and Ostrava.

If you go from Žilina via Cieszyn to DK81 then still you lose a lot of time between Žilina and Český Těšín especially during the day.

I will go back on the route via Žilina once they open S69 from Bielsko Biała to Żywiec (at least to test it  ). And when they finish D3 from Skalité to Svrčinovec on the Slovak side, then this route will be competitive.


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## mcarling

Thanks bad_boy.

The last time I tried the D2/D1 route was before the opening of the D1/A1 cross-border section. I'll take the advice of MAG and bad_boy and try this route again.

I'll be curious to see the progress on the S8 near Mszczonow since I last drove it at the end of March.


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## bad_boy

Regarding the bordermost section of A1, with the current bypass of Mszana bridge it is comfortable, no trucks allowed there and you won't notice how fast it goes. The much longer bypass with the use of DK78 that existed sill one year ago made the question of taking this route relevant, but now there's no such question anymore.

The last strech of S8 U/C near Mszczonów does not create much problems in terms "whether should I take DK50 to A2 from Mszczonów to Wiskitki intersection". I would say it's 50/50 in terms which route to take. Much more depends on to which part of Warsaw you go and at what part of the day/nite and the real focus is on the ease of entrance to the city. Last time I was going from Bratislava at nite I took DK50 purely out of curiosity to see how much truck traffic there is at nite. It was really impressive to see such heavy truck traffic in the middle of the night (the proportion of truck/passanger traffic was about90/10), but the drive was smooth. Also, no speed traps if you take DK50/A2.


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## mcarling

I left central Bratislava a few minutes after 12:00 and made it to central Warsaw a few minutes after 18:00, with just one stop for fuel and vignettes in Bratislava. The D2/D1/I46 were reduced to one lane in four places between the Slovak/Moravian border and Olomouc. Getting through Czestochowa was slow and unpleasant, as always. Otherwise not too bad.

I cannot see any reason why they don't allow one lane of <3.5t traffic in each direction on the Mszana bridge. It doesn't seem like it would significantly impede the works and the bridge is obviously strong enough to support such a small fraction of the design load.

I also hope that the A1 from (including) the bypass of Czestochowa to the A1/S1 interchange at Pyrzowice will be tendered soon. That section of A1 would cut 30-60 minutes off the trip.

Thanks again to MAG and bad_boy.


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## kmieciu

*S3 interchange "Sulechów" - A2 interchange "Jordanowo"*






*S3 interchange "Jordanowo" - S3 interchange "Międzyrzecz South" and back. Opening in August* map: http://her.is/NNR92


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## mcarling

I drove today from Warsaw to Vilnius. Getting through Marki was not too bad, going against the commute traffic. Wyszkow to Ostrow Mazowiecka was worse than I can remember. The really pleasant surprise was the S61 bypass of Stawiski, which has progressed dramatically since I last saw it at the end of March. I think it is plausible that it could open by the end of 2013. On the other hand, the S61 bypass of Szczuczyn seems not to have progressed at all. Augustow was terribly congested.

What is impeding environmental approval for the remaining parts of the S61, especially at the Lomza end?


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## I-275westcoastfl

I'm going to be in Poland next week for 3 weeks and have been thinking about renting a car during the trip. So far StayPoland.com seems to have the best prices 25 Euro/day for a small car but I was wondering if you guys knew any other sites. Another question is are there any apps or a site I can use so I know where speed cameras are? I use the Waze navigation app over here in the US shows police speed traps and cameras. Thats pretty much my biggest concern driving in Poland. Last year I drove very little over there just to the airport and a few times around town, otherwise my relatives drove. Any info appreciated!


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## Sasza

^^
Yeah, there is an app - respect the speed limits


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## ChrisZwolle

toonczyk said:


> Which is a horrible practice, roads should be opened when they're ready, not when some VIP finds time for an opening ceremony. Current government pledged to put this tradition of "official openings" to rest, now they seem to have resurrected it.
> 
> Do politicians in other countries do that too?


I don't have a big problem with politicians opening new infrastructure. It's tradition, although it's shifted down in many countries. In the 1950s and 1960s the queen often came to open new motorways or bridges in the Netherlands. That downshifted to prime ministers, then to infrastructure ministers and nowadays often only local officials attend ceremonies. Widening projects are often opened without ceremony. 

An alternative are off-road opening ceremonies. Opening it to traffic and hold an official ceremony nearby. They do that often in the Netherlands where it is unpractical to hold a ceremony on the road itself. Another possibility I like is to hold a ceremony and open day on a new motorway. For example being able to bike or walk across a new bridge, tunnel or motorway.

Inaugurating new infrastructure is a good way to get some positive media attention for politicans, even though projects are usually not initiated / funded by the politician in charge at the moment of opening.


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## rakcancer

Hey, this is Poland not Netherlands. People over here don't like politicians. In many cases I agree with them. Politicians don't make people's live easier here. On the other hand everyone has to admit that we have never had so many new roads, bridges built in such a short period of time like we have now in last few years. So, I don't mind Prime Minister shows up from time to time at opening ceremonies just to make some ever-complaining citizens understand that we are still on the top of construction works among european countries.


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## MaciejN

And here we go! There is new road bridge over Vistula River near Kwidzyn. View form carcab  Enjoy and read captions.


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## Niemiec w Polsce

There is a huge problem in Poland with toll gates. Now during the vacation and summer time, traffic jams in front of the toll gates up to 2 hours are quiet frequently. This is against any sense of having a highway, if you pay and in the end you are standing in a traffic jam that long, that taking the free local roads would be even faster.

I don't understand the planning. You have a major highway (A1) and at the current end at Torun you have only 6 gates for paying. Just theoretical. 40 000 cars per day on summer time peak days is normal, of which you can expect that at least 30 000 run between 6 am and midnight, making it 18 hours. This means you have approx. 28 cars per minute arriving at the gate. 6 gates are serving, so there are 4,7 cars per gate and minute. But one gate needs a least 30 sec for one car. So instead of having 6 gates, there should be at least 14 to cover such peaks.

Additionally the payment system completely sucks. Paying cash takes long, paying with the credit card even longer since the card approval by the gate servant is somehow forever taking. There should be automatic terminals as it is in Italy. You arrive, put your ticket and your credit card inside, 2 seconds later you get your card and your receipt back and you drive off. Takes around 10 sec/car.

Does anyone know if the government can't sue fines on the private owners of highways due to lack of service or provision of proper payment systems. Or somehow push them to change it. For instance also to introduce electronic payment systems.


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## asahi

Niemiec w Polsce said:


> Does anyone know if the government can't sue fines on the private owners of highways due to lack of service or provision of proper payment systems. Or somehow push them to change it. For instance also to introduce electronic payment systems.


It is the same, or even worse, on the government run motorways. As you said, it simply sucks. And it's not only the case during summer months. It happened to me numerous times between Warsaw and Poznań and it's starting to piss me off more and more. Once, there was only 1 (ONE!!) booth open and when I finally got there I complained about it. The woman in the booth told me in a very rude way that they are also allowed to have a break. Well, sure, but I don't pay the toll to wait for ages at the toll booth. :/

There have been talks with the private operators on installing the viatoll/viaAuto system, but as usually in Poland - it takes forever. But even if they do, it won't help that much imho. Most private car owners will not use the viaAuto, 'cause the viabox costs waaay too much for someone who doesn't drive on a tollway that often. 

Not to mention the card payment system. In Poland, you can use the touchless payment (like paypass) practically everywhere, even in very small shops. Having such terminals at the toll booth would make it so much quicker. And it doesn't even cost much to install it anyway. I can't think of any reason why toll booths are one of the last places without the touchlees terminals. :bash:


----------



## rakcancer

True and simple: _paypass_ would speed up the whole process without big investments in infrastructure. Why they didn't come up with such an simple yet brilliant idea? Looks like asahi said: everything in Poland takes forever and before is good must be a period of time of chaos and disorganization....


----------



## asahi

I will try to email the operators about installing paypass finally. I wonder what they'll say.


----------



## rakcancer

You have got my full support. Or maybe all forum guys should put together signatures under your email and maybe we will be more successful with our petition.


----------



## asahi

I already sent emails to all motorway operators in Poland, let's wait 'till they reply. I don't expect much, but I think if more Polish or Polish-speaking forumers informed them what a pain in the arse it is to wait ages at the toll plazas, they'd be more willing to change the system.


----------



## Janek0

Niemiec w Polsce said:


> I don't understand the planning. You have a major highway (A1) and at the current end at Torun you have only 6 gates for paying.


Because it was planned as temporary, to be liquidated after opening and introducing tolls on the next section of the road. Unfortunately, these plans were not implemented and for now it is possible that next toll booth would be installed several kilometers to the south. :bash:



klosek said:


>


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

I ended up renting a car to drive from Gdansk to Kolobrzeg and some places in between, drive wasn't as bad as I thought it was. GPS took me on some road in the woods that damaged the exhaust though lol. After I stopped listening to the gps everything was great, I even found an awesome curvy road outside of Gdynia that was fun to drive even in my crappy rental. I do have a question though, I was driving at this intersection in Gdansk at night and saw a flash but I wasn't speeding. I was turning left from Targ Drzewny onto 91. Is there any type of camera here? Could have been someone taking pictures but I am not sure.


----------



## Dantiscum

^^ there is no speed camera, don't worry  Might be some intrusive outdoor advertisment perhaps?


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

Not sure, that intersection is a mess and I was in my relatives car. I was thinking a red light camera but I had the green to turn left so I wasn't sure what it could be. Good to know though. Dzieki.


----------



## toonczyk

Maybe those were sparks from tram traction, sometimes it happens to look like a camera flash.


----------



## MaciejN

I put another video from Kwidzyn, where new bridge cross Vistula River.


----------



## Andrzej_Kubica

All those colors and noise barriers looks so terrible. This could be real nice piece of ifranstructure architecture. However it turned out to be classic, tasteless polish crap.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's a nice bridge though. It's sleek and fits well within the landscape. Bravo.


----------



## cinxxx

I like the many colors on Polish roads, not so dull


----------



## Niemiec w Polsce

> I already sent emails to all motorway operators in Poland, let's wait 'till they reply. I don't expect much, but I think if more Polish or Polish-speaking forumers informed them what a pain in the arse it is to wait ages at the toll plazas, they'd be more willing to change the system.


Yes, the paypass system would be great. And since none of the fees is exceeding the 50 zł limit it’s fitting prefect. Thank you for your initiative. Maybe it would be good to announce that as well on the Polish speaking area of the forum. 


> There have been talks with the private operators on installing the viatoll/viaAuto system, but as usually in Poland - it takes forever. But even if they do, it won't help that much imho. Most private car owners will not use the viaAuto, 'cause the viabox costs waaay too much for someone who doesn't drive on a tollway that often.


About the via toll I thought the same. In the end nobody will have it and the queue will be that long so that if you even have the toll box installed you’re stuck up at the end of the traffic jam.


> Because it was planned as temporary, to be liquidated after opening and introducing tolls on the next section of the road. Unfortunately, these plans were not implemented and for now it is possible that next tool booth would be installed several kilometers to the south.


I don’t know if those two booths in the middle of Nowa Wieś are for reserve or emergency. If they are for reserve I don’t get it why it has not put yet into operation. Further on, if it’s temporary (as far as I know there’s no decision yet, how it will be organized in that area in the future) they could have it done as it was done in Stryków where it is temporary as well. If I am not mistaken they have 10 gates for paying there. So much better. And never experienced a traffic jam there or heard of one.
But if it’s going to be two toll gates within a few kilometers, that is the worst situation ever 


> Once, there was only 1 (ONE!!) booth open and when I finally got there I complained about it.



Yes, I know this. Coming there in the middle of night. No traffic, but a 10min queue because only one booth is open. Unfortunately saying something to the person doesn’t really help as they are not the decision makers.


> It happened to me numerous times between Warsaw and Poznań


At which gates are you stuck? Those where you have to pay 15 zł? Those ones are private as well. Only Konin-Strykow is non-private and never saw traffic jams there.

All in all the situation is unsatisfying, worse one the private ones, but also not that great on the governmental ones. Anyway it is also a safety issue. Ok, you have speed limits approx. 1 km before the gate. But if the queue is 2-5km long this is causing a dangerous situation on the highway and I am waiting till it ends up in a bad way (hopefully never). And not talking about economic damages due to these permanent traffic jams.


----------



## asahi

Niemiec w Polsce said:


> At which gates are you stuck? Those where you have to pay 15 zł? Those ones are private as well. Only Konin-Strykow is non-private and never saw traffic jams there.


Well, it happened at both: the private and GDDKiA-run stretches, the situation with only one booth open was on the public one though. 

I will let people know what the operators replied once they do, both here and in the Polish section. 

I remember taking the A-2 like ten years ago - not that much traffic back then, but now it seems to me it has increased a lot, despite the high tolls. (private stretch)


----------



## rakcancer

Andrzej_Kubica said:


> All those colors and noise barriers looks so terrible. This could be real nice piece of ifranstructure architecture. However it turned out to be classic, tasteless polish crap.


I am actually positively surprised that there is only few noise barriers. Would be better if none or at least they were lower but anyway it is progress to put them less than usually....

Colors are not so bad either, I saw many worst cases.
Bridge in Kwidzyn is really nice piece of engineering and architecture. Congrats!


----------



## Andrzej_Kubica

rakcancer said:


> Colors are not so bad either, I saw many worst cases.


In my opinion, colors are very bad.

That's how it should look like (Wrocław bypass road A8):


----------



## Iluminat

What's wrong with red :dunno:


----------



## Pascal20a

I've heard that the A4 section Przemyśl - Korczowa will be opened in August. Is that true?


----------



## toonczyk

^^ It was supposed to be, but won't be. They're doing their best there, but the delays were just too big. End of this year is very likely though.


----------



## zakrzemarski

I saw that section 2 weeks ago and it didn't look like to be finished soon. The end of the year is much more probable.


----------



## Chris80678

Hopefully August is when the S2 between Konotopa and Aleja Krakowska will open to traffic :cheers:


----------



## mcarling

Andrzej_Kubica said:


> In my opinion, colors are very bad.


In general, I very much like that Poland's newer bridges are colorful.



Iluminat said:


> What's wrong with red :dunno:


Red is ok, but so many of the bridges are red and, seemingly, the same red. I prefer some of the blue and yellow bridges, for example.


----------



## rakcancer

red is good. you will never crash against it while driving in fog :lol:


----------



## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> OSM is very up to date but its accuracy is quite poor outside Europe and North America. I also agree about the coloring, it's just too much. I also could do with some less details, parts of OSM are overly detailed and not consistent everywhere.


Digging out this discussion.

The best Internet map of Poland is Targeo. The maps are accurate and up to date, even on countryside. Plus there is route planning, traffic information, info about closed roads, points of interest and more. And they are easy to read.

The only aspects in which OSM is better is that it has some "non-road" information (such as mountain peaks, nature reserves, power lines) and usually better information about roads that are planned/under construction.


----------



## william.pitt72

Andrzej_Kubica said:


> All those colors and noise barriers looks so terrible. This could be real nice piece of ifranstructure architecture. However it turned out to be *classic, tasteless polish crap*.


Huh? 

Pls. move along to perform your ritual self-flagellation elsewhere... 



ChrisZwolle said:


> It's a nice bridge though. It's sleek and fits well within the landscape. Bravo.


Exactly. :cheers:


----------



## Janek0

Niemiec w Polsce said:


> I don’t know if those two booths in the middle of Nowa Wieś are for reserve or emergency. If they are for reserve I don’t get it why it has not put yet into operation. Further on, if it’s temporary (as far as I know there’s no decision yet, how it will be organized in that area in the future) they could have it done as it was done in Stryków where it is temporary as well. If I am not mistaken they have 10 gates for paying there. So much better. And never experienced a traffic jam there or heard of one.


Hah. In Stryków it is indeed temporary, but was planned as permanent and another toll booth was planned for Łódź-Warszawa section. Fortunately, this plan is abandoned and therefore now we have large temporary toll booth in Stryków.


----------



## Pascal20a

Does anybody have photos of the A4 przemysl- korczowa??


----------



## rakcancer

Kemo said:


> Digging out this discussion.
> 
> The best Internet map of Poland is Targeo. The maps are accurate and up to date, even on countryside. Plus there is route planning, traffic information, info about closed roads, points of interest and more. And they are easy to read.
> 
> The only aspects in which OSM is better is that it has some "non-road" information (such as mountain peaks, nature reserves, power lines) and usually better information about roads that are planned/under construction.


Targeo is maybe OK but works only for Poland. Not the big fun of graphic aspect of the map. In my opinion the best is http://mapa.szukacz.pl/ It looks very clear and is well detailed in all over the Europe. Check it out.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## Janek0

rakcancer said:


> Targeo is maybe OK but works only for Poland.


Not only when you log in.


----------



## Maadeuurija

Hello, I would like to know how much of S8 is dual-carriageway east of Warsaw, and if there's construction going on when it's going to be finished.


----------



## lukaszek89

Small OT

Squadron of Mig's-21 landing on highway strip in Poland. Take off's after refueling and rearming. Scenes from polish movie "NA niebie i na ziemi" (1973)


----------



## rakcancer

Maadeuurija said:


> Hello, I would like to know how much of S8 is dual-carriageway east of Warsaw, and if there's construction going on when it's going to be finished.


There is so far around 90km of S8 (dual-carriageway) open for traffic east of Wisla river:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Remaining parts to be built in next years. There is no construction works at the present. According to GDDKiA: Section between Marki and Radzymin - tender. Sections between Zambrow and Jezewo (towards Bialystok) schould be built till 2016. Sections between Zambrow and Ostrow Maz. and between Ostrow Maz. and Wyszkow around 2018 (!):


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## snowdog

MaciejN said:


> And here we go! There is new road bridge over Vistula River near Kwidzyn. View form carcab  Enjoy and read captions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> " frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>


----------



## Chris80678

Hopefully August is when the S2 between Konotopa and Aleja Krakowska will open to traffic 

Incomplete permit is affecting opening of S2 between Konotopa and Aleja Krakowska. The fire brigade haven't done their part apparently hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I've read it will open tonight.


----------



## Hellmut

Pascal20a said:


> Does anybody have photos of the A4 przemysl- korczowa??


Check out this thread:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=328111&page=254
There are few photos of section mentioned by you (and many more of the rest from Rzeszów).


----------



## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> I've read it will open tonight.


They're verifying the documentation as we speak, construction site inspectors and police will do final checks tonight, if everything is right they'll open it.

Temporary arrangements near al. Krakowska:


bacique said:


> A to już widok z WD-50 na węzeł Krakowska - czyżby na dzień przed otwarciem?


Notice the line barriers, in a somewhat controversial move they installed them (instead of classic steel barriers) on S2 between Konotopa and Warszawa-Południe.


----------



## rakcancer

snowdog said:


> Odd design compared to what I think is logical!
> 
> Cyclists and pedestrians share the same bit?
> 
> But a moped ( scooter in the vid) has to go between the cars ? hno:
> 
> There should be 3 sections:
> 1- Pedestrians
> 2- Cars & motorbikes only ( not allow slow traffic)
> 3- Cycle/moped path, for cyclists, mopeds, scooters, etc... Or if allowed currently between the cars: farm vehicles. Basically any traffic unable to go faster than 50 km/h.


Pedestrians and bikes can coexist on the bridge like everywhere else. That is not a problem. Also don't forget this is not motorway, not even expressway just regular road so forget about separate space for slower traffic... There is no such a traffic volume and of course no money to build such an unnecessary expensive bridge.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

toonczyk said:


> Maybe those were sparks from tram traction, sometimes it happens to look like a camera flash.


It's possible, I was in the same location yesterday and didn't see any camera.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Isn't DK90 a GP-class road? In that case, I think tractors should generally be separated from fast traffic, but I can see it is cost-prohibitive to build a wider bridge for a few tractors per day.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

toonczyk said:


> Notice the line barriers, in a somewhat controversial move they installed them (instead of classic steel barriers) on S2 between Konotopa and Warszawa-Południe.


That's a big "hmm" for me. Cable barriers are nice for 2+1 roads with low volumes and relatively few trucks, but I think metal or concrete barriers are more appropriate for high-volume urban motorways. I can't think of any other high volume (de-facto) motorway in Europe with only a cable barrier. 

According to British research for Highways Agency, there were 1449 accidents per year in the UK involving the median barrier (thus excluding the outer barriers).


----------



## mcarling

Just prohibit tractors on the bridge.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's rather impractical for farmers, don't you think?


----------



## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> That's a big "hmm" for me. Cable barriers are nice for 2+1 roads with low volumes and relatively few trucks, but I think metal or concrete barriers are more appropriate for high-volume urban motorways. I can't think of any other high volume (de-facto) motorway in Europe with only a cable barrier.


I think it's been tested time and time again and the conclusions are that concrete barriers are by far the safest, but there is very little to no difference between steel and cable barriers in terms of safety. Cable barriers are not popular in Poland, only major roads I can think of that use those is S8 in Mszczonów (short section, just a few kilometers) and A1 Toruń - Grudziądz. We'll see how it works here, I hope it proves to be safe.


----------



## rakcancer

ChrisZwolle said:


> That's rather impractical for farmers, don't you think?


Tractors can jump on ferry as it always was.


----------



## Kemo

rakcancer said:


> Tractors can jump on ferry as it always was.


The ferries in this area were cancelled.


----------



## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> That's rather impractical for farmers, don't you think?


Tractors obviously didn't use the bridge before it was opened. No reason they must use it after. Tractors can stay on one side of the river. If someone needs to transport a tractor (for example, after buying one on the other side of the river) then put it on a trailer and drive it across at 80 km/h.


----------



## rakcancer

Agree! Let's not make a big issue of few tractors!


----------



## lukaszek89

According to the GDDKiA facebook profile S2 will be opened around 21-22


----------



## snowdog

rakcancer said:


> Pedestrians and bikes can coexist on the bridge like everywhere else. That is not a problem. Also don't forget this is not motorway, not even expressway just regular road so forget about separate space for slower traffic... There is no such a traffic volume and of course no money to build such an unnecessary expensive bridge.


Peds should be split from cyclists I think personally.

Mopeds also don't belong between the cars imo outside built up areas. A 45-50km/h vehicle doensn't belong on a road where cars go 80+ km/h imo.


Then again, I'm spoilt with where I live, I ride all vehicles possible ( Car, Mopeds, bikes, etc...) and I find it nice that slow traffic is rarely ever sharing the same space as fast traffic.

What i meant was, I think at least the ped/cycle path should be split up like this:










And fair point about farm vehicles, if there was no bridge before, then why would they suddenly need to use it now that there is one ?
I personally think farm vehicles should never go on roads where cars can go 80 or more....


----------



## rakcancer

Generally you are right but bridge near Kwidzyn is practically in the countryside. I don't expect there either many bikes or many pedestrians. The bridge in your picture is in urban area so it makes sense to invest money in separate bike lanes.


----------



## asahi

Exactly. There is no need there for a separate lanes for cyclists and pedestrians. Not to mention mopeds which are not really popular in Poland and building an extra lane for them would surely be a huge waste of money imo.


----------



## bad_boy

S2 Konotopa - Krakowska just opened. :cheers:


----------



## rakcancer

*S2 - southern bypass of Warsaw*. 
Section open for traffic today - highlighted:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us



bacique said:


> Otwieramy


First moments of new road brings first accident:


bacique said:


> Niestety jest już pierwsze zderzenie z dachowaniem, na węźle Krakowska


----------



## rakcancer

ufonut said:


> *GDDKiA will implement experimental road signage on A1 from Kowal to Torun* :nocrook:


Any details?


----------



## Surel

rakcancer said:


> mapy.cz is not up to date at all. It shows A2 between Lodz and Warsaw is under construction so A1 from Strkow to Kowal does.


It shows them finished at the top layers, the bottom layers have them still unfinished, someone forgot to change a mark for all layers.


----------



## rakcancer

that is what I meant Surel


----------



## Surel

toonczyk said:


> S79 is partially opened, as shown in google maps. The rest is waiting for S2 up to Warszawa-Południe interchange to be completed, which should happen within a month or so (right now the plan is to open it for traffic by the end of August, but we'll see how it goes). The rest of S2 (up to Puławska street) will be finished in September/October. Opacz interchange and S8 connector to Al. Jerozolimskie could open by the end of this year, it mostly depends on weather conditions now. If winter doesn't come too early, they could very well finish it in November.


Thank you.

Are there plans to make Obwodnica Miejska in this part of the city free flow? There are around 4 lights if I am right between Pulawska and Bronislawa Czecha. Or is finishing the S2 a priority?


----------



## toonczyk

Surel said:


> Are there plans to make Obwodnica Miejska in this part of the city free flow? There are around 4 lights if I am right between Pulawska and Bronislawa Czecha. Or is finishing the S2 a priority?


That's a completely different matter - S2 is built by GDDKiA (central government), inner ring is built by the city of Warsaw. There are some vague plans of making Trasa Sikorskiego free flow, but it'd be a rather costly operations (bridges and tunnels involved), the city budget can't spare this kind of money. There are other infrastructural priorities for Warsaw, especially on the east bank of Vistula. I'd be really surprised if this section of Obwodnica Miejska between Puławska and Sobieskiego got upgraded within next 20 years.


rakcancer said:


> Any details?


Basically signs will be larger, which may not seem like a big deal until you see what they often look like now :lol:


ufonut said:


>


----------



## ufonut

rakcancer said:


> Any details?


By *RootonRails*


----------



## ufonut

Fast progress on S79/S2

by *bacique*

Collectors were finished in 2 days I believe. Pretty amazing.


----------



## rakcancer

ufonut said:


> By *RootonRails*



So there is no revolution. Basically I can see only one new motorway exit sign attached to other signs. It is mostly about standardization and making signs bigger....things that should be done loooooong time ago. Nevertheless, good move in right direction by GDDKiA.


----------



## Rombi

Is this change concerns all roads, not only highways?


----------



## maciek9207

A2: Warszawa - Stryków (from S2 to A1), next video tomorrow.


----------



## Kemo

Rombi said:


> Is this change concerns all roads, not only highways?


So far only A1 Toruń - Kowal, as "experimental signage".


----------



## Rusonaldo

2 films from S8 





[/QUOTE]


----------



## maciek9207

I needed to edit something in my movies so i uploaded again. Here are another two videos from my trip to Poznań, tomorrow i'm going to share videos from south and west Poznań bypass. 

1. A2: Stryków - Konin
2. A2: Konin - Poznań (S5)


----------



## maciek9207

The last videos from my trip. 

1. A2, S5, S11 - Poznań south bypass
2. S11 - Poznań west bypass


----------



## pmaciej7

S3 and Świebodzin:


----------



## Proterra

Rio de Świebodzineiro... 

Came through there on the way to Woodstock two weeks ago - get to see Jesus' arse if you look left while passing through town...


----------



## Rombi

Yeahh total failure with all this crap. I've heard that another one gonna be in Częstochowa icard:


----------



## Proterra

Rombi said:


> Yeahh total failure with all this crap. I've heard that another one gonna be in Częstochowa icard:


It's already there: A huge 14-metre plastic Jan Paweł II... Got unveiled last spring...

I'm sure the old pope would not approve of all of this bullshit...


----------



## mcarling

I drove the S8 today, in the direction from Piotrkow Trybunalski to Warsaw. The section near Mszczonow, one carriageway of which is under construction, has recently progressed markedly. They have begun paving with asphalt. It's now easy for me to imagine this opening before the first snow.


----------



## toonczyk

I wouldn't be surprised if they opened it within a few weeks.


----------



## Eulanthe

Quick question : 

What's the current plans for tolls on the A1 near Gliwice? I noticed that there are covered up "płatna" signs on the A1 north of the A4 junction - so does this mean that we'll see a closed tolling system with the A1 and A4?

(surely, surely, surely the GDDKiA aren't going to be so insane as to require stops at two tolls when travelling from the A1 North to the A4 West?)

As for the tolls on the A4, what a mess. I was there yesterday - there was a 15 minute wait just to get a ticket at the Katowice end, and a similar 15 minute wait at the Wroclaw end to pay for the ticket. The jam to get a ticket at Wroclaw stretched all the way to the Bielany junction - that's simply completely unacceptable.

I also notice that at least on the A4, they're not asking for PIN numbers when you use a card - but it took at least 30 seconds from handing over the ticket/card to get my card back. Come on GDDKiA, sort it out!


----------



## mcarling

toonczyk said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if they opened it within a few weeks.


Perhaps, but some of it is still just gravel. I believe they need to put down three layers of asphalt, then paint, before they can open it. No?


----------



## toonczyk

mcarling said:


> Perhaps, but some of it is still just gravel. I believe they need to put down three layers of asphalt, then paint, before they can open it. No?


Sounds like one week's work to me 


Eulanthe said:


> (surely, surely, surely the GDDKiA aren't going to be so insane as to require stops at two tolls when travelling from the A1 North to the A4 West?)


I've got bad news for you.


----------



## Eulanthe

toonczyk said:


> I've got bad news for you.


...

Are they completely out of their mind? Where is the sense in this?

I thought the situation near Strykow was insane enough, but this is just beyond belief - what possible reason is there not to link the A1 and A4 tolling systems? 

The A2, A1 and A4 are screaming to be built as one proper closed tolling system without frequent stops - if I drive from Poznan, I shouldn't have to stop until I reach the CZ border. But this situation is just a mess


----------



## Janek0

Eulanthe said:


> (surely, surely, surely the GDDKiA aren't going to be so insane as to require stops at two tolls when travelling from the A1 North to the A4 West?)


You can already notice concrete plaza prepared for the toll booths. http://maps.google.com/?ll=50.33165...=xEnoQs-rLdkY33xTNhLMlQ&cbp=12,341.37,,0,8.79


----------



## toonczyk

Eulanthe said:


> Are they completely out of their mind? Where is the sense in this?


Basically if it were up to GDDKiA, all motorways would be tolled under one system, but it's not their decision. For political a decision has been made to exclude some short sections of motorways from the tolling system, hence the current situation.


----------



## Janek0

toonczyk said:


> Basically if it were up to GDDKiA, all motorways would be tolled under one system, but it's not their decision. For political a decision has been made to exclude some short sections of motorways from the tolling system, hence the current situation.


Nope. Currently the only section excluded from tolls is A4 Kleszczów-Sośnica and it is already covered by closed system, but with zero rate.


----------



## toonczyk

Janek0 said:


> Nope. Currently the only section excluded from tolls is A4 Kleszczów-Sośnica and it is already covered by closed system, but with zero rate.


The reason why there is a toll collection plaza on A4 just a bit west of Gliwice-Sośnica interchange is because of how the toll system was designed. Were Gliwice-Sośnica designed to be a part of tolled motorway system, there would be no need for PPOs west, north and south of it.


----------



## Janek0

Still, there is no such need. One PPO east of Sośnica would be enough and zero rates could be introduced on sections which politicians want to be toll-free.


----------



## Eulanthe

toonczyk said:


> The reason why there is a toll collection plaza on A4 just a bit west of Gliwice-Sośnica interchange is because of how the toll system was designed. Were Gliwice-Sośnica designed to be a part of tolled motorway system, there would be no need for PPOs west, north and south of it.


What's the reason for excluding that junction anyway?

I've had a look on OSM and it seems that the connection to the DTS wouldn't support a tolling system - that's the only reason that I can see?


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## lukaszek89

Torun:



Sobolek88 said:


> 11 sierpnia w Toruniu gościł prof. Biliszczuk z Wrocławia. Poniżej kilka zdjęć jego autorstwa:
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> Źródło: mostypolskie.pl


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## Kemo

Eulanthe said:


> What's the reason for excluding that junction anyway?
> 
> I've had a look on OSM and it seems that the connection to the DTS wouldn't support a tolling system - that's the only reason that I can see?


The whole idea of toll motorways in Upper Silesia is a mess.
Here is how it looks like:










Red - existing toll plazas
Orange - planned (there is one more on A1 near Czech border)

Purple - this is how it should look like (without the three toll plazas around Gliwice).

I just hope that someone will realize that this idea is detrimental for the agglomeration and resign from opening two more toll plazas near Gliwice.


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## rakcancer

So then it would better if there was no toll-free sections. It would make driving more expensive but less complicated.


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## Kemo

Less complicated for transit drivers, but far more complicated for local traffic.
The toll stations on junctions would need to be enormous to serve the traffic.

Here are the trafic figures (vehicles per day) from 2010 (that is even before large sections of A1 were opened)


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## rakcancer

Usually motorways are for transit traffic not for local one. Silesia region may be a bit different, it is highly urbanized. So there is a choice: either let locals drive on tool-free motorways making them more congested or make whole motorway system tooled as it is in other countries without making exceptions around bigger cities like is now in Silesia, Poznan or Krakow. The whole tool-free sections idea around bigger cities was forced by some mostly local populist politicians in the past. Now we have to deal with such an complex tooling system.


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## ufonut

A1 Stryków- Tuszyn by *kozaist*


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## Chris80678

Are those photos of the A1 from the Stryków or the Tuszyn end of the route?


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## ChrisZwolle

Probably the S8 interchange. A1 is not that far advanced yet.


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## rakcancer

@ Ufonut
This is helluva progress :lol:
I don't think so....


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## Chris80678

rakcancer said:


> @ Ufonut
> This is helluva progress :lol:
> I don't think so....


That's what I suspected given that A1 between Stryków and Tuszyn isn't due to be completed until June 2014

Still the S3 expressway between the A2 and Międzyrzecz South opens to traffic tomorrow :cheers:


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## rml-

I don't know whether it is always like this, but during my trip the waiting time was comparable on both sides. The Polish border guards weren't any faster than the Ukrainian ones as far as I remember.


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## ChrisZwolle

rml- said:


> The problem was that they kept us waiting for more than an hour and they didn't work at all during this time, once they started again it went rather smoothly.


I never understood this kind of attitude against people crossing international borders. International traffic / trade generates economic growth, but what do they do? They offer you the worst possible service by letting traffic wait for hours. Imagine if you had to wait 2 hours to board a subway in London or Berlin, there would be a public / political outrage over it. Somehow it seems to be an accepted practice at borders.


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## rml-

Exactly, as a tourist you only cross the border to leave money on the other side, and it's really weird if for some reason they don't want your money. 

If someone waits too long on the Ukrainian border crossing, next time they travel they will choose a destination inside Schengen area and the only one to lose will be Ukraine. 

But we went off the topic.


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## Urbanista1

rakcancer said:


> A1 is an experience indeed. How about the part of your trip along Rt22 from A1 to the bridge over Wisla river? All in old pre-war cobblestones. That is an experience!


Polish negativity always quickly responds to neutralize any joy


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## rakcancer

Urbanista1 said:


> Polish negativity always quickly responds to neutralize any joy


You have totally missed my point. I actually drove there recently. It was really interesting to see this kind of road surface still exists on national roads.


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## Urbanista1

my apologies, I misunderstood. got so used to Polish negativity while spending the last month in Poland  Yes indeed the roads are amazing, can't wait for the new bridge near Torun to open - gorgeous!


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## kmieciu

*S3 Gorzów - Międzyrzecz, whole stretch 570 photos, enjoy.* 










WS1









WD3


















12km









15km









WD30









20km









MS14









Interchange Skwierzyna South









Interchange Skwierzyna South









Interchange Skwierzyna South









31km









37km









S3 Gorzów Wlkp. - Międzyrzecz 13km


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## Rombi

This is already fucking sick!!


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## Luki_SL

ChrisZwolle said:


> 21 August, 2013
> 
> A 13 kilometer (11.6 km as I measure it) segment of 2x2 S3 opens to traffic in western Poland. It runs from Międzyrzecz-South to Jordanowo (A2).
> 
> http://wiadomosci.onet.pl/lubuskie/odcinek-s3-miedzyrzecz-swiebodzin-oddany-do-uzytku/f00bj


 Interchange Międzyrzecz- Interchange Sulechow map: 










Full version : https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/userfiles/articles/o/od-dzis-s3-szybciej-do-stolicy-i_12925/1.jpg


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## markfos

Perhaps they want to protect animals from noise? Is there any other country in the world with such a density of noise barriers?


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## kmieciu

Rombi said:


> That's already is fucking sick!!





markfos said:


> Perhaps they want to protect animals from noise? Is there any other country in the world with such a density of noise barriers?


I forgot to add, that S3 passes the largest bats reserve in Europe. On this columns there will be net to protect bats from collisons with cars.

It's called "eco screen", looks like this on stretch S3 Międzyrzecz - Sulechów.









Map with eco screens, marked with yellow line.


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## DSzumaher

The stretch opened yesterday.


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## masages21

What other expressways will be opened in Poland this year?


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## mcarling

There are several sections of expressways which might or might not open this year. One that seems certain to open this year (maybe next month) is the section of S8 near Mszczonow.


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## Andrzej_Kubica

masages21, take a look on this map:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/81380146/mapka-igorsel.png


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## mcarling

The dates shown on the map above are the contracted dates. Many of them will not be completed by the contracted dates.


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## bewu1

Today GDDKiA officially announced tenders for two new projects (33 kilometers in total):

*S-3 Nowa Sól – Legnica* - sections from Nowa Sól South to Kaźmierzów (north of Polkowice).

Assuming no delays the projects should be completed in late 2016.

In June 2013, GDDIKA announced tenders for appr. 250 km of new expressways.


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## MichiH

^^ 3 of 4 links does not work!


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## Kemo

masages21 said:


> What other expressways will be opened in Poland this year?


This is also a good source of information:









I bet the only new highways opened in this year will be:
-S2/S79 in Warsaw
-S8 near Mszczonów (well, it's not really an "opening of new road")
-S12/S17 "Bogucin-Dąbrowica" (west of Lublin)
-possibly also A4 near Jarosław and Dębica east-Rzeszów west (the dates are for 2014, but they are supposed to finish both junctions this year)


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## Chris80678

I bet the only new highways opened in this year will be:
-S2/S79 in Warsaw
-S8 near Mszczonów (well, it's not really an "opening of new road")
-S12/S17 "Bogucin-Dąbrowica" (west of Lublin)
-possibly also A4 near Jarosław and Dębica east-Rzeszów west (the dates are for 2014, but they are supposed to finish both junctions this year) 

This is better than no openings at all for the rest of 2013 :cheers:


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## wifon

User toonczyk already made a suggestion to add map legend in English
"Official" thread for this map is there: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=869740

Edit: according to http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=107032101&postcount=2872


> From the next update there will be second version of the map with legend in English. It should be expected at the end of September


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## Haveblue

ok, so let us makie it clear for english speakers then.

It is not *Project and Build* but *Design and Build*


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## bewu1

Today, new tender for construction of S-8 expressway between the end of S-8 Zambrow by-pass, and the end of S-8 Mezenin by-pass (appr. 15 km) was launched. This section is in eastern Poland, between Warsaw and Białystok.


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## Kemo

^^ This is the section:
http://mapa.targeo.pl/Mapa_Polski,24,22.4258200,53.0754400?l=f109cf6c0298025d


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## Biesiada

such maps look impressive but the problem is there are too few high speed roads in warsaw and surroundings, the most important economic region. to drive it from south to north takes for example on friday afternoon not much less than on bicycle. however there are many high speed roads built in empty foresty countryside. locals drive there much below speed limit to save on fuel.


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## Strzala

Once again: Junction 'Lublin Sławinek' (former name 'Dąbrowica') on Lublin Bypass S12/S17/S19:



marti:) said:


> Nowa fota z obwodnicy. Tym razem wykorzystałem testy sprzętu do zrobienia panoramy 360 dla węzła Dąbrowica. Jak ktoś ciekawy jak to jest zawiesić się w powietrzu to zapraszam pod link z panoramą. Panorama jest też w wyższej rozdziałce - trzeba kliknąć w ikonę HD po załadowaniu panoramy.
> 
> Obwodnica Lublina 360 z lotu  i udanych lotów
> 
> I sam wycinek z panoramy sferycznej


Click below to rotate 360 panorama view in HD:

Obwodnica Lublina 360 z lotu 

An few more ground photos (made on 6th September) from S12/S17 near Lublin and Lublin bypass U/C:



> all & more from :
> 
> http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/12817/Przebieg-prac-w-drugiej-polowie-2013-r


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## mcarling

Biesiada said:


> such maps look impressive but the problem is there are too few high speed roads in warsaw and surroundings, the most important economic region. to drive it from south to north takes for example on friday afternoon not much less than on bicycle. however there are many high speed roads built in empty foresty countryside. locals drive there much below speed limit to save on fuel.


I can remember when crossing Poland from the LT border to the DE border took about 20 hours. Now it takes about 7 hours, thanks to the A2, some bits of S8, and some improvements to the DK61.


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## Agnette

There is only 100 km of A2 in my video. My speed was ~150 kmph. You can count how many vehicles moved faster...


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## Kemo

Infrastructure? Ok. 
Three new stretches of roads will open soon:
DK36 Rawicz bypass
DK77 Leżajsk bypass (section 1)
Remaining section of S2 in Warsaw
(All colored in grey on the map)


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## PLH

EOT. This is not a chat folks.


___________________


A4 approaching Ukrainian border:



Bartek555 said:


> 31.Stoje po drugiej stronie ronda północnego i patrze na zachód
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> 32.Stoje na WD-54 patrze na zachód
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> 33.Stoje na WD-54 patrze na zachód zoom
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> 37.Stoje na WD-54 patrze na wschód zoom (u góry po prawej widać auto przejeżdzające przez tymczasowy bypass)


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## PLH

......


Bartek555 said:


> 41.Podchodze blizej granicy i patrze na wschód zoom
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> 44.Widok na granice RP w Korczowej
> Po lewej stronie widać pojazdy jadące tymczasową drogą z granicy RP
> po prawej stronie A4 widzimy pojazd zmierzający na granice RP
> 
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> 45.Widok na granice RP w Korczowej - widać auto jadące przez tymczasowy bypass


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## Chris80678

Will the A4 between Radymno and Korczowa be completed and opened to traffic before the end of 2013?


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## maciek9207

Two sections of the expressway S19 in Kock and near Rzeszów.








On my youtube channel you can find entire section DK19: Białystok - Kuźnica (BY border) and Białystok - Rzeszów.


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## Blaskovitz




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## Kemo

Chris80678 said:


> Will the A4 between Radymno and Korczowa be completed and opened to traffic before the end of 2013?


Completed? No.
Opened for traffic? There is a chance... some "insiders" say that it is planned to open for traffic this year.


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## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> Completed? No.
> Opened for traffic? There is a chance... some "insiders" say that it is planned to open for traffic this year.


Never mind, I don't suppose routes heading east ie. to Ukraine, Belarus etc are seen as a priority right now anyway

We should have a few more motorway/expressway openings before the year is out


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## JackFrost

^^is there another motorway or expressway heading eastwards apart from A4? finsihing A4 would be important i think.


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## masages21

There's no. Polish road authority plans to build A2 in the future.


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## Chris80678

Rawicz bypass (DK36) opened to traffic today. It is 9km long and curves around the town to the north cutting 20 mins off the journey. There is an interchange with the currently unfinished and unopened S5 bypass of Rawicz

When will the S5 between Bojanowo and Rawicz be finished and opened?


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## Kemo

Jack_Frost said:


> ^^is there another motorway or expressway heading eastwards apart from A4? finsihing A4 would be important i think.


S12 Lublin - Kovel (UA)
S17 Lublin - Lvov (UA)
A2 Warszawa - Brest (BY)
S19 Białystok - Grodno (BY)
None of them will however be built before 2020. (Except maybe for a part of A2 and some bypasses.)



Chris80678 said:


> When will the S5 between Bojanowo and Rawicz be finished and opened?


There is no specific date yet. But that will be possibly late 2014.



> Rawicz bypass (DK36) opened to traffic today. It is 9km long and curves around the town to the north cutting 20 mins off the journey. There is an interchange with the currently unfinished and unopened S5 bypass of Rawicz


Here's a movie


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## mcarling

masages21 said:


> There's no. Polish road authority plans to build A2 in the future.


What??? I understand that there are no immediate plans to complete the A2 to the Belarus border, but I believe it is planned to eventually be built. No?


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## masages21

There're some PLANS but they're not exact. 


EDITED:

I've just checked.. They only know that A2 will be build in the future. No plans...


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## Rusonaldo

Expressway S8 Wrocław - Łódź


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## GrimFadango

GDDKiA plans to start tenders for 10 bypasses in 2013 and at least 2 in 2014. Most of these are national roads not included in the Polish motorways & expressways system.










Source: http://www.gazetaprawna.pl/artykuly/732870,drogi-polska-w-budowie-obwodnic-zobacz-mape-miliardowych-inwestycji-w-2014-roku.html

:cheers:

[edit]

Tenders for expressways announced/to be announced till 31-DEC-2013:

Legend:

purple - already announced
red - to be announced till 31st august (so already announced)
green - to be announced till 31st december










Source: http://serwisy.gazetaprawna.pl/transport/artykuly/728043,35-mld-zl-na-ekspresowki-do-konca-2013-roku-zobacz-gdzie-powstana-drogi-szybkiego-ruchu.html

:cheers:

^^ These maps are not very precise, but they visualise what's currently going on. We're waiting for new maps made by polish section users, these are the best on the market! New edition is going to be multilingual


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## rakcancer

So Suwalki bypass is not going to be expressway?


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## Sasza

^^
It's going to be, but there is just a mistake in map.


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## bewu1

The last 5 km section of S-2 Warsaw south-western by-pass (section from S-79 to Puławska street) will be open this night.


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## Chris80678

bewu1 said:


> The last 5 km section of S-2 Warsaw south-western by-pass (section from S-79 to Puławska street) will be open this night.


Does that mean the E30 running through the centre of Warsaw (as far as where Puławska enters the city centre) will be renumbered DK 92? After S2 does replace this part of the E30 now


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## Kemo

Unfortunately, it will lose the "DK" category.










Purple - roads that will no longer have "DK" category

Don't ask about the "7" route, the signage leads on expressway bypass, and the route through city as marked above is for administrative purposes only.


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## ChrisZwolle

Has the deadline for S69 been adjusted officially? I don't see how this expressway will be completed before 2014.


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## Strzala

*Lublin - the extension of Aleja Solidarności one of the accesses to Lublin bypass build in expressway standard:*






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff6NJNs9UYg

Great movie :cheers:










^^First green line from left.



>


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## panthiocodin

I did not expect road works are so advanced. Well done Lublin


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## ChrisZwolle

Interesting how they filmed that. Did they use a UAV?


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## Luki_SL

^^Yes, they used UAV (Hexacopter)


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## Haveblue

panthiocodin said:


> I did not expect road works are so advanced. Well done Lublin


Well, this is what it is. The interesting bit is that this contract is not about building roads and structures only. Essentially in most locations entire ground for foundations had to be replaced to provide adequate underlay for foundations.

Personally, I never realized the scope is so extensive until I saw the works and the progress onsite.


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## metacatfry

Geomorphology of the Mazovian-Podlasian Lowlands can be difficult to build on, the soil is more challenging due to either too much sand or just generally unpredictable consistency and carrying capacity. (I'm not an expert).


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## ChrisZwolle

When will they begin tolling A2 Łódź - Warszawa?


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## Chris80678

National Road 77 Poland

25th September 2013

The first 4km part of the bypass of Leżajsk in south-eastern Poland opened to traffic today. The bypass takes away some of the heavy traffic using national road 77 out of the centre of the town. The second part of the bypass will be completed some time in 2014


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## Poul_

Warsaw ring will be finished before 2019
http://tvnwarszawa.tvn24.pl/informacje,news,dokoncza-budowe-pow-kosztem-wylotowek,100284.html


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## MichiH

Poul_ said:


> Warsaw ring will be finished before 2019
> http://tvnwarszawa.tvn24.pl/informacje,news,dokoncza-budowe-pow-kosztem-wylotowek,100284.html


If I understood correct:
- The southern ring will be completed until 2018
- Financed due to S7 postponement
- Bidding procedure starts in December 2013
- Eastern ring will be completed until 2019


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## rakcancer

It looks like almost every bigger project around Warsaw is urgent. There is so much to do. Complete the ring, connect it with already finished S8, S7 on each side. On the top of that Warsaw still needs better inter-borough connections especially between North and South Praga and between Wola and Ochota and Mokotow no mention such an obvious missing links like between Ursynow and Wilanow. I think it is a shame that so much money is taken away from tax income of city of Warsaw and distributed to poorer regions of Mazovia. Warsaw is generating something like 90% of GDP in Mazovia and yet is totally underinvested.


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## Poul_

^^
^^exactly


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## Proterra

rakcancer said:


> It looks like almost every bigger project around Warsaw is urgent. There is so much to do. Complete the ring, connect it with already finished S8, S7 on each side. On the top of that Warsaw still needs better inter-borough connections especially between North and South Praga and between Wola and Ochota and Mokotow no mention such an obvious missing links like between Ursynow and Wilanow. I think it is a shame that so much money is taken away from tax income of city of Warsaw and distributed to poorer regions of Mazovia. Warsaw is generating something like 90% of GDP in Mazovia and yet is totally underinvested.


Isn't it the case that Mazovia doesn't get EU structural funding because Warsaw is too rich, and because of the relative size of Warsaw within Mazovia, the whole of Mazovia gets above the threshold, despite the rest of Mazovia being one of the poorest regions in Poland?

Ideally, greater Warsaw should become another voivodeship in my opinion. Besides the whole financial thing, Warsaw is just too dominant within the current Mazovia. And it just sucks for the good people of Radom or Płock to be driving around with licence plates that start with "W"... They deserve better...


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## javimix19

Hi, I have a question:

- How is the quality of roads in Eastern Poland? 
I read that region is the poorest of Poland and perhaps it suffers a lack of investment I don't know.

- Is the Government of Poland investing in the East of the country like in the West? Or the priority is connection with Germany, Czech Republic and Slovakia?


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## Sasza

^^
It's not like that. East is more poor because of history (over century in Russian Empire in XIX and then Soviet occupation until 1989) and it's less populated than central areas.









It's condtion of polish National Roads (thicker lines) and Voivodship Roads (thinner lines).
Legend:
Green - good or very good
Yellow - average
Orange - heavy aggravation
Red - critical conditon 
Blue - in construction or in reconstruction
Grey - no data
Brown - paved road or dirt road.


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## rakcancer

Proterra said:


> Isn't it the case that Mazovia doesn't get EU structural funding because Warsaw is too rich, and because of the relative size of Warsaw within Mazovia, the whole of Mazovia gets above the threshold, despite the rest of Mazovia being one of the poorest regions in Poland?
> 
> Ideally, greater Warsaw should become another voivodeship in my opinion. Besides the whole financial thing, Warsaw is just too dominant within the current Mazovia. And it just sucks for the good people of Radom or Płock to be driving around with licence plates that start with "W"... They deserve better...


You got the point. Warsaw fits to whole Mazovia Voivodeship like elephant on the spoon. Warsaw should be definitely a separate entity from the rest of Mazovia. In that case Mazovia would get much bigger support form EU, but honestly knowing reality of our country, do you think it would stop politicians to rape Warsaw budget and distribute it to the poorer parts of country? I don't think so.


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## Kemo

Tender for another section of S7 announced :banana:

As well as S17 and S12 remaining part of Puławy bypass.


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## bewu1

This section of S-7 is 21 km long, and S-17 sections are 44 km long (including 11 km long section of S-12). Anyway, great news.


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## Sponsor

del


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## Superkot634

Sasza said:


> It's condtion of polish National Roads (thicker lines) and Voivodship Roads (thinner lines).
> Legend:
> Green - good or very good
> Yellow - average
> Orange - heavy aggravation
> Red - critical conditon
> Blue - in construction or in reconstruction
> Grey - no data
> Brown - paved road or dirt road.


As you can see, the state of national roads is not the best.


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## Beck's

But not so bad as well.


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## piotr71

Superkot634 said:


> As you can see, the state of national roads is not the best.


No larger European country can benefit with whole network of perfectly maintained national roads.


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## Superkot634

^^
It's logical, but looking at the map, national roads are in at most mediocre condition.


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## snowdog

piotr71 said:


> No larger European country can benefit with whole network of perfectly maintained national roads.


I think it's the opposite, the national roads are easily of FAR far higher quality over here than in Poland if you compare rut and potholes. I can't remember and N or A based road in Holland that is rubbish to drive on due to actual damage ( ignoring speedbumps/traffic calming and such).

Yes, after a bit of snow&frost, some roads (motorways in particular due to porous asphalt) are bad, however emergency repairs (scraping off a layer so, while rough noise wise, there are no holes) are done within the week and permanent repairs or repaving in a matter of weeks iirc.

The municipal roads are a different matter, locally bad roads do pop up! Often.

National roads should be maintained perfectly and the national government should be held responsible for damage to your car/suspension due to rut or holes ( and they more or less are over here).

I hope the Polish government will take responsibility for maintaining at least all the national roads correctly, though I can see how it's harder due to more continental climate ( and thus temperature differences).


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## Strzala

S12\S17 Piaski -Lublin video from airplane:


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## Strzala

S12/S17/S19 Lublin bypass all photos by GDDKiA :



Piekarz said:


> Zdjęcia by GDDKiA Lublin:
> 
> *Odcinek nr 3.*





Piekarz said:


> cd...





Piekarz said:


> cd..





Piekarz said:


> cd..





Piekarz said:


> *Odcinek nr 4*





Piekarz said:


> cd..





Piekarz said:


> cd..





Piekarz said:


> cd..
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> 
> 
> http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/12796/Przebieg-prac-w-drugiej-polowie-2013-r
> 
> To już jest koniec. :cheers:


----------



## John Maynard

Superkot634 said:


> As you can see, the state of national roads is not the best.


That's amazing, even some of the "new" roads are already in "average" condition. I'm thinking, per example, of the A4 near Krzyzowa, DK3 between Goleniow and Wolin, S10 near Starg. Szczecinski, S8 near Radzymin; while some "older" section like A1 near Piotrkow Trybunalski are still in a good shape. Why is this the case?
What are the criteria taken into consideration to make this classification?


----------



## Kemo

^^ These roads are not that new  
They were constructed in 90s. (except for S10)

What is taken into consideration: occurence of imperfections such as ruts, holes, patches, cracks, bumps etc. How frequent they are and how serious (for example: these are "red" ruts and these are "yellow")

However, the criteria are rater subjective; one's general feeling about the quality of the road may differ from person to person and depend on the vehicle.


____________________________________________

Today the government accepted the list of city bypasses to be tendered in 2013.
The list includes 12 cities; the largest project is S16 southern Olsztyn bypass.


----------



## piotr71

snowdog said:


> I think it's the opposite, the national roads are easily of FAR far higher quality over here than in Poland if you compare rut and potholes. I can't remember and N or A based road in Holland that is rubbish to drive on due to actual damage ( ignoring speedbumps/traffic calming and such).
> (..)


Having mentioned "larger countries" I did not mean the Netherlands, sorry. I realize how good roads in Holland are, I quite often drive on them. 

If it comes to countries of a similar population and size to Poland, I'd rather made comparison to France, Spain, Germany or United Kingdom. And of course, I am still aware that roads in mentioned countries are better, however the gap between us and them is continuously shrinking. Not only because we constantly resurface our national roads, but also because potholes and other faults appear more often on their roads.


----------



## Proterra

piotr71 said:


> Having mentioned "larger countries" I did not mean the Netherlands, sorry. I realize how good roads in Holland are, I quite often drive on them.
> 
> If it comes to countries of a similar population and size to Poland, I'd rather made comparison to France, Spain, Germany or United Kingdom. And of course, I am still aware that roads in mentioned countries are better, however the gap between us and them is continuously shrinking. Not only because we constantly resurface our national roads, but also because potholes and other faults appear more often on their roads.


Agree.

We're often traveling by car and we have a sort of grade from 0-5 for how good/bad roads are on average. This takes primarily into account the roads on which most people travel and not so much expensive, well-maintained tolled motorways if hardly any of the "normal" people use them.

And this is what we have:

5. Netherlands
4. Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Austria
3. Poland, Czech Republic, Norway, Lithuania, Belgium
2. Slovakia, Romania, Hungary
1. Ukraine, Moldova


----------



## rakcancer

I guess this is your highly non scientific opinion which there is no point to discuss about here or do you have anything to support your ranking? For example I don't think it is correct that Hungary is classified in the bottom.


----------



## John Maynard

Kemo said:


> These roads are not that new
> They were constructed in 90s. (except for S10)


Yes, many of these roads were built end of the 90's, except A4 (previously RAB Berlin-Breslau) which was built in 1936-1937 by Germans.
But it's not entirely true, because, S8 bypass of Radzymin was rebuild and modernized in 2007. Same for DK3 Goleniow-Wolin, as well for A4, all of them were entirely rebuilt and modernized during the very same period.
As a matter of fact, they ain't that old at all.
So, why some of these "newer" roads are already "average" (including new S10) after such short period of time?

I'd like also to mention S8 bypass of Ostrow Maz. built in 2003; but according to your map, it is in a heavy aggravated condition, after only 10 years.


----------



## Poul_

Proterra said:


> 5. Netherlands
> 4. Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Austria, Norway
> 3. Poland, Czech Republic, Lithuania, Belgium, Hungary
> 2. Slovakia, Romania
> 1. Ukraine, Moldova


For me it should be ...


----------



## markfos

Why Belgium in 3rd group, and Slovakia in 4th? -they have much the same roads as Poland does.


----------



## rakcancer

I think we shouldn't waste more time to comment that ranking. It is highly subjective.


----------



## Kemo

John Maynard said:


> So, why some of these "newer" roads are already "average" (including new S10) after such short period of time?



Add bad design*/wrong materials used**/poor quality of works** to heavy traffic and Polish winters - and what you get are deteriorated, relatively new roads.


* when for example the construction layers of road are not as thick as they should be for certain type of ground

** obviously some road projects lacked proper supervision


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The average asphalt layer doesn't last much longer than 10 - 12 years without maintenance, especially if it carries heavy traffic.


----------



## markfos

I read somewhere that traffic in Poland is the second heaviest after Germany in Europe.


----------



## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> The average asphalt layer doesn't last much longer than 10 - 12 years without maintenance, especially if it carries heavy traffic.


A4 near Opole has 13 years and currently it is being resurfaced. The quality of surface was not *perfect* but still good enough for green colour on our map  I think they could wait with full resurfacing one or two more years.


----------



## keokiracer

markfos said:


> I read somewhere that traffic in Poland is the second heaviest after Germany in Europe.


Did you read that in a Polish article or something? :nuts:


----------



## plus ratio quam vis

It is not a surprise since Poland lies between west and east, so lots of transit traffic appears on Polish roads.


----------



## John Maynard

Kemo said:


> Add bad design*/wrong materials used**/poor quality of works** to heavy traffic and Polish winters - and what you get are deteriorated, relatively new roads.
> 
> 
> * when for example the construction layers of road are not as thick as they should be for certain type of ground
> 
> ** obviously some road projects lacked proper supervision


Well, is it better now? I mean, are their some controls made by the authorities to avoid bad quality roads? Is their in a national level an engineering supervision?

I can notice that Polish winter is mostly the same as many Northern and Central Western European countries (per ex. Scandinavia, parts of Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy) as well as North America (which is even more rough in some area, per ex. Canada).

Traffic is also very heavy in Western Europe, especially in Germany, Netherlands and France, but without ruts or potholes on main motorways/roads.

Objectively, I hope these new roads won't be in a crappy condition in a few years because of lack of maintenance.

Besides, how are road works and maintenance scheduled and managed in Poland?


----------



## John Maynard

ChrisZwolle said:


> The average asphalt layer doesn't last much longer than 10 - 12 years without maintenance, especially if it carries heavy traffic.


Thank you for your reply.

What about concrete surfacing, it lasts in average 2-3 times longer than asphalt. Isn't it better for heavy traffic and rough weather as well as it requires less maintenance?


----------



## Strzala

John Maynard said:


> Well, is it better now? I mean, are their some controls made by the authorities to avoid bad quality roads? Is their in a national level an engineering supervision?
> 
> I can notice that Polish winter is mostly the same as many Northern and Central Western European countries (per ex. Scandinavia, parts of Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy) as well as North America (which is even more rough in some area, per ex. Canada).



I disagree. Poland has the most crossings through the 0 Celcius degree during the year in Europe and this is deadly for roads surface. Also asphalt mixture in Poland have to stand 
-30 Celcius deegres in winter and +40 Celcius degrees in Summer. There are totally extreme conditions demanding the best roads materials to handle roads in good conditions for about 10-15 years.


----------



## Chris80678

Does anybody know what is the status of the Jarosław West interchange (formally known as Jarosław Wierzbno) (DK94/A4) - is it fully complete and open to traffic yet? If it is open does that mean the stretch of the A4 between Jarosław West and Jarosław South interchanges is open to traffic now? 

Are any more parts of the A4 going to be finished and opened to traffic before the end of 2013? The part between Radymno and Korczowa (Polish/Ukranian border) is optimistically scheduled for opening at the end of this year


----------



## Kemo

Chris80678 said:


> Does anybody know what is the status of the Jarosław West interchange (formally known as Jarosław Wierzbno) (DK94/A4) - is it fully complete and open to traffic yet? If it is open does that mean the stretch of the A4 between Jarosław West and Jarosław South interchanges is open to traffic now?


No, it is not complete and the section is not open for traffic. There is a problem with the viaduct over DK94 (it subsides).
A year ago they even planned to make a temporary bypass of this viaduct to open Jarosław West - Jarosław South section for traffic, but Polimex claimed to finish this junction soon. Year has passed and we still don't know when this junction will be completed...

That's how it looks like:

On the left - completed stretch, on the right - problematic viaduct)



nyk-msg said:


>





> Are any more parts of the A4 going to be finished and opened to traffic before the end of 2013? The part between Radymno and Korczowa (Polish/Ukranian border) is optimistically scheduled for opening at the end of this year


Dębica East - Rzeszów North will be opened. Probably in November.


----------



## Surel

Strzala said:


> I disagree. Poland has the most crossings through the 0 Celcius degree during the year in Europe and this is deadly for roads surface. Also asphalt mixture in Poland have to stand
> -30 Celcius deegres in winter and +40 Celcius degrees in Summer. There are totally extreme conditions demanding the best roads materials to handle roads in good conditions for about 10-15 years.


Climate conditions have huge influence on the roads indeed. On the other hand I think there are proper materials and construction technologies to mitigate the adverse climate effects.


----------



## LMB

Strzala said:


> I disagree. Poland has the most crossings through the 0 Celcius degree during the year in Europe and this is deadly for roads surface.


To clarify, this is partly because daily temperature variations at the end of winter are quite extreme. You may have +12°C at daytime, to drop to -0°C at night.


----------



## db84

Hello,

you may be interested in the map of progress in the construction of Polish motorways, which finally came out in English.

from |here|:


----------



## rakcancer

Cool! Is there any chance to include enlargements of fenced areas (Warsaw and Silesia)?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

S-roads can both be single and dual carriageway, but in practice nearly all new S-roads are dual carriageway with a 120 km/h speed limit. They are de-facto motorways. It's similar to the S-roads in Austria.


----------



## Reivajar

OK... cool... thanks.

So a really good network... however, which is the difference? On S-roads are allowed more types of vehicles and are less restrictive than motorways?


----------



## Haveblue

For the driver there are two notable differences:
1. line width (2,75m against 3.0m on motorways)
2. minimum distance between junctions (6km against 12km on motorways)

there is many more but those are not that much of a concern for the end user.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Few people notice such differences, especially the distance between exits is irrelevant to road status. Motorways in other countries have exits as close as 1 km apart.

The future A1-S8 interchange at Łódź. Interesting how they sign S8 Warszawa, because the interchange at Piotrków Trybunalski (A1-S8) is incomplete, you cannot drive from Łódź to Warszawa via this interchange, you need to turn around elsewhere.


----------



## Kemo

Haveblue said:


> For the driver there are two notable differences:
> 1. line width (2,75m against 3.0m on motorways)


You meant lane width 3.75m on A class and 3.50m on S class. Except for when A road has 3 lanes or it is near a "big city" then it may also have 3.50m wide lanes.




> 2. minimum distance between junctions (6km against 12km on motorways)


This is not actually obligatory, see the density of junctions on Silesian section of A1, for example Bytom and Piekary junctions are closer than 3km.

Plus of course the maximum velocity being 140km/h on A and 120km/h on S.



Reivajar said:


> All the new S-roads are dual carriageways? There is any map to distinguish between single and dual?


Most maps distinguish it 
Check the map in post #10639


----------



## and802

Haveblue said:


> For the driver there are two notable differences:
> 1. line width (2,75m against 3.0m on motorways)
> 2. minimum distance between junctions (6km against 12km on motorways)
> 
> there is many more but those are not that much of a concern for the end user.


wrong data

ad 1. line witdh 3,5 m against 3,75 m on motorways

probably you meant service lane


----------



## Haveblue

ooops ... apologies for wrong lane width. Obviously Kemo is right


----------



## Reivajar

OK... thanks... I can figure out where are the main differences... however, is that important the money saving of building slightly narrower roads? For sure, it makes an important difference for driving at 140 km/h instead of 120 km/h... but apart of that...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Lane width doesn't really influence the speed limit. The primary consideration for lane widths are trucks, which are 2.5 meters wide (excluding mirrors). You can drive 120 on a 3.5 m lane, but you can also drive 180 on that same lane. 

Curvature (horizontal & vertical) influences the maximum safe speed much more, for example some of the older Reichsautobahnen in central Germany (hilly areas) do not allow for much more than 150 km/h in curves because they were designed in the 1930s.


----------



## Reivajar

OK, thanks.

The point is that I don't really understand the need of making two different networks in Poland... actually S-type roads could be considered just regular motorways in most of European countries...


----------



## Kemo

Reivajar said:


> OK, thanks.
> 
> The point is that I don't really understand the need of making two different networks in Poland... actually S-type roads could be considered just regular motorways in most of European countries...


We in Poland don't understand it either 

Tenders for Jarocin and Ostrów Wielkopolski bypasses (parts of S11 highway) announced today.


----------



## rav00

As of now, the main difference is that motorways are tolled, while expressways are not (for passenger cars and motorcycles).


----------



## salto_angel

Not all motorways are tolled. But supposed to be in the future.


----------



## and802

Reivajar said:


> OK, thanks.
> 
> The point is that I don't really understand the need of making two different networks in Poland...


there are no two different networks. 
expressways are a kind of supplement to motorway backbone. actually we do not have even one completed network 
anyway I believe in comparison to other emerging countries Poland does the job quite well. in 10 years from now we would be alright.




Reivajar said:


> OK, thanks.
> 
> ... actually S-type roads could be considered just regular motorways in most of European countries...


well, I have not traveled around Europe a lot, but Polish s-class roads are as good as other modern roads in Austria (that is where I have been to)


----------



## Kemo

salto_angel said:


> Not all motorways are tolled. But supposed to be in the future.


A6, A8, sections of A4 are not supposed to be tolled.

We don't know what will be tolled and what not, thet may as well charge tolls on every A/S road.


----------



## Urbanista1

javimix19 said:


> This is the map of the motorways constructed and the motorways under construction. I think in 2020 Poland will be a good motorway network. Of course after 2020 roads should be improved, but compare this network with 10-15 years ago. Poland has done a great work on this road network.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Green: constructed
> Red: under construction


about half the A4 between Tarnow and Rzeszow on the Rzeszow side is actually complete except for interchange to make it more useable.


----------



## mcarling

and802 said:


> actually we do not have even one completed network


That's right. We're at least 8-10 years away from Poland having a motorway/expressway network. There are now some motorway and expressway stretches, but they do not yet form a network.


----------



## and802

^^
you are right, 

having in mind a simple computer network definition like:
"peers are connected to each other"

and translating it onto infrastructure definition:
"cities connected to each other"

I would say we are not even close to complete the motorway network.
anyway, I am not going to complain. personally I am more than happy we have been doing theses big steps for last couple of years


----------



## bartek76

Reivajar said:


> OK, thanks.
> 
> The point is that I don't really understand the need of making two different networks in Poland... actually S-type roads could be considered just regular motorways in most of European countries...


Well, S-roads are, to be honest, motorways with everything but name. It is quite similar to Spain with autopistas and autovias, and more, the reasons for such divison are relatively similar as well.
In Poland motorways were supposed to be bulit by private companies who would then recover their expenses plus profit via tolls (with government support of course:lol. And our regulators had created (in early nineties) very strict rules for motorways, probably the most strict in the world (very wide lanes, huge distance between junctions etc), in the end of the day they were spending somebody else money:nuts:. 
And perhaps because of that such motorways did not materialize, with one exception of a part of A2. So our authorities had to think hard with a perspective of coming el dorado of EU money for roads. They decided to leave the earlier planned basic network of tolled motorways (A1, A2 and A4) to be build either by private buisness or by state now. And they created new concept of expressways, to be build by state (for EU money mostly) but with reduced to normal not ridiculous requirements, and at least for time being, not tolled. Those expressways network is to be additional to aforementioned motorway one especially that the latter was from day one criticized as not sufficient.
Quite similar to Spain where tolled autopistas were mostly build by private money and then there was a problem of radial roads from Madrid where traffic levels (at least in 70 and 80) did not justify any sound private investment. But they were needed for development etc. And concept of free autovias was created.
I personally use example of both Poland and Spain as basic test of any European road atlas. If autovias and Polish expressways are clearly shown as motorways or motorways like then it is worth further investigation. If not it is a loo roll, nothing else:lol:


----------



## Reivajar

bartek76 said:


> Well, S-roads are, to be honest, motorways with everything but name. It is quite similar to Spain with autopistas and autovias, and more, the reasons for such divison are relatively similar as well.
> In Poland motorways were supposed to be bulit by private companies who would then recover their expenses plus profit via tolls (with government support of course:lol. And our regulators had created (in early nineties) very strict rules for motorways, probably the most strict in the world (very wide lanes, huge distance between junctions etc), in the end of the day they were spending somebody else money:nuts:.
> And perhaps because of that such motorways did not materialize, with one exception of a part of A2. So our authorities had to think hard with a perspective of coming el dorado of EU money for roads. They decided to leave the earlier planned basic network of tolled motorways (A1, A2 and A4) to be build either by private buisness or by state now. And they created new concept of expressways, to be build by state (for EU money mostly) but with reduced to normal not ridiculous requirements, and at least for time being, not tolled. Those expressways network is to be additional to aforementioned motorway one especially that the latter was from day one criticized as not sufficient.
> Quite similar to Spain where tolled autopistas were mostly build by private money and then there was a problem of radial roads from Madrid where traffic levels (at least in 70 and 80) did not justify any sound private investment. But they were needed for development etc. And concept of free autovias was created.
> I personally use example of both Poland and Spain as basic test of any European road atlas. If autovias and Polish expressways are clearly shown as motorways or motorways like then it is worth further investigation. If not it is a loo roll, nothing else:lol:


Hahahahahaha, great!! Just great!!:banana:

I was thinking the same example, comparing to the same situation in Spain. The history backwards is slightly different in the case of Spain, but the result is sort of similar. And I do exactly the same with road atlas. I test their quality just for looking at the expressways not considered official motorways around Europe... usually it is quite disappointing. For example now, Google Maps is kind of crap... before it was much better. hno:

At the end of the day, the S-roads and A-roads are kind of the same: motorways and supermotorways. That's all.

Thank everybody for your explanations.


----------



## Leski

Reivajar said:


> Hahahahahaha, great!! Just great!!:banana:
> 
> I was thinking the same example, comparing to the same situation in Spain. The history backwards is slightly different in the case of Spain, )


There are even more similarities with Spain. S-class roads were to be build by upgrading the old single carriageway highways. The A-class roads were to be build on green fields. However they found out that upgrading the old single-carriageway highways is more expansive and troublesome. Now most S-class roads are being designed on green fields.


----------



## m_rocco

very very nice section of S8 from piotrkòw to mszczonow!! I drove trough for first time there yesterday. 
Is there any chance to complete s8 in missing sections from warszawa to bialystok? Even at night DK8 is really really dangerous road!! I saw lot of TIRs cruising in pair for kilometers while overtaking O_O


----------



## mcarling

m_rocco said:


> Is there any chance to complete s8 in missing sections from warszawa to bialystok?


Yes, the S8 from Warsaw to Bialystok is planned for completion over the next several years. A couple of sections are out for tender now.


----------



## rakcancer

We are now _Road Infrastructure_. Does it mean we can discuss here every smallest piece of even most forgotten road we think is worth of?


----------



## PLH

Just use your common sense


----------



## Kemo

Aerial photos of A4 near Dębica available on Google Maps:
https://maps.google.pl/?ll=50.084849,21.424091&spn=0.00716,0.01929&t=k&z=16

Aerial photos of Lublin byoass also available
https://maps.google.pl/?ll=51.302179,22.584414&spn=0.013952,0.038581&t=k&z=15

(both roads under construction)

_____

Construction of S3 south of A4 (towards Czech Republic) will not start in next few years, because Czech R11 is planned after 2018.


----------



## Strzala

Today Interchange 'Lublin Rudnik' on Lublin bypass S12/S17/S19 and new entrance to the city under construction:







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdiMnKG0l0s



Map:
https://maps.google.pl/?ll=51.302179,22.584414&spn=0.013952,0.038581&t=k&z=15


----------



## markfos

Length of motorways and expressways in the major countries of the European Union, in km.

1 Germany 12363

2 France 10843

3 Spain 10286

4 Italy 6487

5 United Kingdom 3555

6 Poland 2549

7 Portugal 2547

8 The Netherlands 2274

9 Belgium 1763

10 Sweden 1740

11 Austria 1678

12 Denmark 1340

13 Hungary 1335

14 Czech Republic 1050

15 Finland 740

In late 2016 or early 2017 in terms of the length of motorways and expressways Poland will be ahead of the United Kingdom.

By 2020, Poland will have a total of 5300 km of motorways and expressways.

http://www.rp.pl/artykul/13,1056196-Polska-w-autostradowej-czolowce-UE.html?p=1


----------



## bad_boy

Numbers for Spain and France seem suspiciously too low. They have like over 14,000 km and 13,000 km respectively. Also Czech Republic has almost 1,200 km instead of 1,050 km.

Otherwise it looks more or less correct, but I think I've seen somewhere on this forum more updated list. Note this shows total length, not density (I think the Netherlands would beat everyone in that category).


----------



## MichiH

markfos said:


> Length of motorways and expressways in the major countries of the European Union, in km.
> 1 Germany 12363


Totally wrong! It is w/o expressways and even the Autobahn network has a length of almost 13,000km.

Here another ranking of Autobahn networks: http://images.zeit.de/wissen/2012-04/s44-infografik-autobahn.pdf (2012).

btw: The only statistics you can trust are those you falsified yourself .


----------



## keokiracer

markfos said:


> 8 The Netherlands 2274


Wrong wrong and wrong. That's the length we had in 1995 or so... hno:

But good to know that Polish newspapers check their sources just as much as Dutch newspapers. As in; they don't check... The real length is 2516 kms.
http://www.wegenwiki.nl/Nederlandse_autosnelwegen#Lijst


----------



## masages21

Compare the area of Poland to the area of the UK or the Netherland.


----------



## markfos

^^ UK is only slightly smaller than Poland but more populous ,so?


----------



## keokiracer

markfos said:


> ^^ UK is only slightly smaller than Poland but more populous ,so?


I like how you just try to talk around NL, which is waaaay smaller than Poland :lol:

Anyways, about the UK:
UK has about 2700 kms of dual carriageways* that are not calculated in the result...

Motorways: 3236 kms (2011 miles)
Dual carriageways: 2780 kms (1727 miles)


Total: 6016 kms (3738 miles)

* Only dual carriageways that have at least 2 lanes per direction and are grade seperated


----------



## markfos

^^ Have I mentioned sth about Holland? I replied to the post about UK which is more populous and not much smaller than Poland is. And yes I know about dual-carriageways, there are plenty of them in Poland as well but this article is about expressways and motorways.


----------



## keokiracer

markfos said:


> And yes I know about dual-carriageways, there are plenty of them in Poland as well but this article is about expressways and motorways.


A dual carriageway (in the way I explained at the * in my last post) is the equivalent of an expressway. So it should've been counted.

Also note that the Polish version of these roads (Droga ekspresowe) were counted in Polands total.


----------



## markfos

^^ There are GP roads in Poland (also separated) but are not counted as expressways.
UK has quite undeveloped road system compared to other Western countries.


----------



## piotr71

keokiracer said:


> I like how you just try to talk around NL, which is waaaay smaller than Poland :lol:
> 
> Anyways, about the UK:
> UK has about 2700 kms of dual carriageways* that are not calculated in the result...
> 
> Motorways: 3236 kms (2011 miles)
> Dual carriageways: 2780 kms (1727 miles)
> 
> 
> Total: 6016 kms (3738 miles)
> 
> * Only dual carriageways that have at least 2 lanes per direction and are grade seperated


It would be very hard task to distinguish grade separated dual carriageways from those which aren't. If it comes to their considerable continuous uninterrupted length, let's say over 10 miles, you wouldn't have found more than a handful of such. However, dual carriageways' network in Britain is with no doubts far denser than in Poland. 



markfos said:


> ^^ Have I mentioned sth about Holland?


You haven't and this is the reason why he said what he said


----------



## keokiracer

piotr71 said:


> It would be very hard task to distinguish grade separated dual carriageways from those which aren't. If it comes to their considerable continuous uninterrupted length, let's say over 10 miles, you wouldn't have found more than a handful of such.


True, I think it was calculated with at least 2 exits on the route (or was that the case on another page... Hmm...), but to be sure: Chris, how exactly did you calculate it? :lol:





piotr71 said:


> You haven't and this is the reason why he said what he said


Exactly!


----------



## keokiracer

markfos said:


> ^^ There are GP roads in Poland (also separated) but are not counted as expressways.


You have to draw a line somewhere. I read that some of them have a design speed of only 60 km/h. That's way too low to be highway/autobahn/motorway-like.

PS: don't think I'm defending the UK or anything, but it just looks like you're just trying to boost Poland's number and try to keep the numbers of other countries as low as possible. Which I don't think is fair.

I now do wonder how much NL would get extra with 2x2 non-highway 'autowegen' (like your Droga ekspresowe) with grade seperation. It wont be a lot I presume. I can only come up with a few  (N11, N31, N242, S112)


----------



## markfos

^^ They have no choice, they have to be transparent, after all they spend billions from EU funds.


----------



## rakcancer

ChrisZwolle said:


> GDDKiA is much more transparent about tenders than the Dutch Rijkswaterstaat. They never publish tender results over here. We just have to assume they contracted the cheapest or best offer.


Isn't that against Nederland/EU regulations?


----------



## Surel

^^
It could be against some. But there are different (read stricter) regulations for the cases when you use EU resources and when you don't.


----------



## darko06

geogregor said:


> In the meantime madness in Poland continues...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :bash:


It will be curious to know if these kilometers of unnecessary equipment were financed from European Union funds?hno:


----------



## db84

darko06 said:


> *It will be curious* to know if these kilometers of unnecessary equipment were financed from European Union funds?hno:


Who is this *it*?

All right, I know what you mean. The point is that copying polish coloquial phrases into english makes them even more stupid.

something can be interesting
someone can be curious (=interested in)


----------



## rakcancer

That madness is supposed to stop. At least there is no such a strict regulations any more. These screens has to come from that past era. (Hopefully)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

darko06 said:


> It will be curious to know if these kilometers of unnecessary equipment were financed from European Union funds?hno:


This is Poland complying to EU regulation.

If all countries would follow the EU regulation as strict as Poland, this is what every new road in Europe would look like.


----------



## Reivajar

ChrisZwolle said:


> This is Poland complying to EU regulation.
> 
> If all countries would follow the EU regulation as strict as Poland, this is what every new road in Europe would look like.


Does EU regulation force to set all those acoustic panels on the roads?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No, but it describes which limits there are for road noise. This is 48 dB Lden or 50 dB(A) (they are the same noise level, but different scale). Most countries have some kind of exemption in their laws to allow higher limits in certain situations, but apparently Poland does not have this, otherwise there wouldn't've been so many noise barriers.


----------



## Reivajar

ChrisZwolle said:


> No, but it describes which limits there are for road noise. This is 48 dB Lden or 50 dB(A) (they are the same noise level, but different scale). Most countries have some kind of exemption in their laws to allow higher limits in certain situations, but apparently Poland does not have this, otherwise there wouldn't've been so many noise barriers.


50 dB(A) at which distance from the road? It seems to be a relatively absurd law, if technically it is impossible to get those levels just because of the noise caused by the wheels touching the surface of the road... not sure, but if so many exception are needed to be set by countries... :/


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Noise is measured* at the exterior of all habitable buildings within a certain zone (distance from the road) as set by law. But it has been said that Poland also complies with noise levels at commercial and industrial buildings, most countries don't do this.

Then there are also issues with noise in natura-2000 areas, or areas with a certain habitat, which results in noise barriers in the middle of nowhere.

* measuring = computer modeling, because you can't measure noise in the future.


----------



## bewu1

Today, two tenders for construction of S-5 expressways section Radomicko-Leszno South, total length of 28.5 km (between Poznań and Wrocław) were launched. This year, 35 tenders for construction of expressways with total length of 488 km were launched.


New map

black - open for trafic
red - u/c
green - tenders lauched / tenders to be launch by the end of 2013

https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/userfiles...ie-przygotowanie-d_3198/mapa_23_10_2013_b.pdf


----------



## Reivajar

ChrisZwolle said:


> Noise is measured* at the exterior of all habitable buildings within a certain zone (distance from the road) as set by law. But it has been said that Poland also complies with noise levels at commercial and industrial buildings, most countries don't do this.
> 
> Then there are also issues with noise in natura-2000 areas, or areas with a certain habitat, which results in noise barriers in the middle of nowhere.
> 
> * measuring = computer modeling, because you can't measure noise in the future.


OK. Thanks.  I see the European law can be transposed in a really open way into the different national laws.

Well, natura-2000 areas are anywhere... even I've seen some projects of infrastructure being cancelled or extremely controversial just because natura-2000 areas.


----------



## mcarling

With Poznan - Wroclaw and Brno - Vienna to be upgraded from single carriageway 1x2 roads to 2x2 expressways within the next ten years, it will be interesting to see what will happen to AADT between Wroclaw and Brno. In the 2020s, there might be a case for extending the S8 from Wroclaw to Klodzko.


----------



## markfos

*Special Report: Poland's roads to ruin*



> *When Poland started handing out billions of euros worth of contracts for a wave of road-building five years ago, everyone was meant to benefit.*
> 
> 
> Poland would bring its decrepit transport system into the 21st century, European construction firms would win contracts at a time of recession, and the European Union, whose cash helped fund the work, could point to how it was helping.
> 
> Poland got its roads, for the most part. But in many other ways the enterprise, one of the biggest construction projects in Europe, went seriously wrong. Several contractors are in legal battles to recover billions of euros they say Poland owes them. Dozens of Polish companies are in bankruptcy, and multinational firms have blamed losses on the Polish contracts turning sour. Six European governments have complained to Poland about the way their companies have been treated. The European Commission is investigating what went wrong.
> 
> Here's the twist: This is not so much a story of corruption as of cost-cutting zeal. Poland stuck to its budget and the prices agreed in its contracts. That was the problem. In an industry where firms routinely bid as low as possible and costs routinely overrun, Poland frequently refused to budge on cost. In its drive to keep costs down, it also ignored warnings - including some from independent engineers hired by the state - that designs and plans needed to be changed.
> 
> The drive to economize was repeated on dozens of projects, industry groups and construction company executives say, and left many involved in the projects struggling. One of the biggest losers was Alpine Holding GmbH, the Austrian unit of Spanish group FCC, which entered bankruptcy proceedings in June, becoming Austria's biggest corporate collapse since World War Two.
> 
> A project that should have been a bonanza for Europe has turned into "a slaughter house for Polish and European firms," Jaroslaw Duszewski, a former Alpine executive, wrote to the head of the Polish state roads agency in June this year. A spokesman for FCC declined to comment.
> 
> Five other firms have told Reuters they are still in dispute with the road agency over payment: Austria's Strabag, the Polish unit of Germany's Bilfinger, Ireland's SIAC, a joint venture of Ireland's Sisk and Roadbridge called SRB, and Budimex, a Polish unit of Spain's Ferrovial. All but one said they had filed suits against the state road agency which were unresolved. Bilfinger's subsidiary said it was seeking to resolve the dispute out of court.
> 
> Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk has defended his officials, and said Poland will not bow to foreign pressure. His office referred reporters to the transport ministry, which defended the agency, saying it had acted within the terms of its agreements with contractors.
> 
> "RUSSIAN ROULETTE"
> 
> The problems relate to contracts awarded from 2008, when Lech Witecki, a former state auditor, was appointed as head of the road agency, known by its Polish acronym GDDKiA. Witecki was put in the job with a brief to get the best possible value just as European Union spending on Polish roads was about to reach an all-time peak. Roads were part of a 37.56 billion euro ($51.37 billion), *seven-year EU infrastructure program for Poland - the European Union's biggest ever development program in a single member state.*
> 
> Witecki followed standard industry practice: His agency would announce a tender for a road project and contractors would bid. Usually, the winner would be the firm that offered to build the road for the lowest price.
> 
> But in two crucial aspects, Poland's system differed from the way contracts are run in the rest of Europe, said Frank Kehlenbach, director of industry lobby group European International Contractors. First, executives from several construction firms have said, the Polish agency would in many cases not clarify project details when asked. That left companies with a choice: Take a risk and bid on incomplete information, or walk away.
> 
> "In Germany or other European countries you say: ‘I have a request for clarification.' Then you have a meeting and it is clarified for all tenderers," said Kehlenbach, who has worked for the organization since 1997. "In Poland ... they say: ‘If you have a problem with the tender documents, do not submit the bid.'" The transport ministry said companies which believe they have inadequate information can appeal to an independent adjudicating body, but it had no sign any company had done that.
> 
> Secondly, when contractors who had begun work encountered unforeseen problems - World War Two bombs on the site, say, or a design flaw - and needed to adjust the project costs, the agency would consistently reject any change, say executives with construction firms who have dealt with the GDDKiA. Normally when a problem arises, Kehlenbach said, the contractor and client sit down together and clarify the cost. But the Polish authorities did not negotiate on such matters, and instead referred contractors to the courts.
> 
> "I have never experienced anything like what happens in Poland," he said.
> 
> Jan Biliszczuk, a Polish engineer working as a consultant for Alpine on one project, told a site meeting in May 2013 that the dynamic between contractors and the road agency was "a game of Russian roulette over project costs." GDDKiA regularly withheld payment on the grounds contractors were not delivering, and made several firms forfeit the multi-million euro bonds they had lodged as a guarantee, according to GDDKiA's own records.
> 
> Witecki told Reuters his agency did show flexibility on contracts, approving modifications in many cases, but only when this was justified. He said he and his officials acted in line with Polish law, and only tried to enforce the contracts which the contractors themselves had signed. He said he had delivered thousands of kilometers of good quality highways, and provided good value for taxpayers.
> 
> A BRIDGE TOO FAR
> 
> An unfinished motorway bridge at Mszana, near Poland's border with the Czech Republic, stands as one example of the road agency's tough approach.
> 
> When the design for the bridge was being drawn up, it was intended to be a bold architectural statement fitting for a newly-confident Poland. The ravine the bridge had to span isn't wide, or especially deep. In fact the brook at the bottom of it is only about four meters across - the length of a small family car.
> 
> But there were problems from the start.
> 
> Most modern motorway suspension bridges are made up of concrete slabs supported on two sides by wire cables hung from towers. This one had towers and a set of wire cables running down the middle of the roadway only.
> 
> The man hired by GDDKiA to design it, Stefan Jendrzejek, has a long track record of building road bridges in Poland. He believed that the bridge could withstand the additional stresses resulting from the unusual design, but there would be little margin for error.
> 
> In 2007, Alpine Bau, the construction arm of Austria's Alpine Holding, won a tender to build the bridge and a stretch of the A1 motorway either side of it. The company had already completed high-profile construction projects in Poland, and in 2009 would be picked to build the country's new national soccer stadium.
> 
> On the motorway contract, Alpine said it could not proceed unless the road agency changed the project design; GDDKiA said Alpine was not fulfilling its obligations, and the contract was torn up in 2009. It was put up for tender again a year later and Alpine Bau won it again, in August 2010 - a week after the government agency had written to ask the firm to clarify if its price included all the work on the project, including the bridge.
> 
> From then on, more than 300 pages of official documents exchanged between the agency and the builder record how the project descended into recriminations between Witecki's road agency and the contractor.
> 
> According to the documents, which Reuters has seen, three highly qualified engineers who were or had been employed by the agency said the design of the bridge was unproven and too ambitious. But the agency disagreed with most of them. It took the view that the contractor was raising problems with the design to excuse its failures and inflate costs, the documents show.
> 
> By late 2011, the bridge was taking shape. But Alpine's engineers discovered that a section of the concrete span had crumbled at the point where some supporting cables were anchored.
> 
> One expert the agency had hired, Professor Kazimierz Flaga, proposed adding extra ribs to strengthen the concrete span - advice which the agency did not follow, the documents show. Flaga declined to comment for this article.
> 
> The road agency said in a statement to Reuters in July this year: "GDDKiA follows expert advice arising from in-depth analyses."
> 
> In a document written this year and seen by Reuters, Jendrzejek wrote that his concept was sound. He did not respond to a request for comment.
> 
> By early 2012, cracks had appeared in one of the concrete sections on the underside of the bridge. The regional construction inspectorate stepped in and ordered a halt to the work. The inspectors demanded fixes.
> 
> In July 2012, Flaga and three other engineers wrote to the road agency to say they had reservations about the proposed fixes. They were still concerned the bridge would not be strong enough. The road agency rejected the alternatives they suggested and disputed the content of the letter.
> 
> Witecki told Reuters the principal reason for the problems with the contract was not the design of the bridge but mistakes by Alpine. He said the price it offered to carry out the contract was unrealistically low.
> 
> Despite the disputes, on July 20, 2012 Alpine Bau signed a contract with GDDKiA to carry out corrective work and complete the bridge. According to Duszewski, the former Alpine Bau executive, the company was by this stage trapped: If it refused to sign the new contract it would not receive the millions of euros it was owed for work already done.
> 
> Problems soon resurfaced: Alpine Bau complained about missing plans and components.
> 
> "GUN TO THE HEAD"
> 
> Things were taking a toll on Alpine Bau financially. From the early days of the contract, GDDKiA withheld interim payments to the firm. The transport ministry said it withheld payments in line with the contract, which stipulates payments can only be made when work in the schedule is completed.
> 
> In June 2012 the road agency also called in a bond worth more than 13 million euros that Alpine Bau had lodged with a bank as security in case it failed to meet the terms of the contract. Then in February this year it wrote to the bank, saying it wanted to call another bond, also worth about 13 million euros. A few days later, it wrote to the bank again, asking it to postpone - a process it repeated six times, before it finally claimed the cash in May this year.
> 
> That, said Duszewski, the former Alpine Bau executive, felt like a tactic to keep the company under constant financial pressure. He said it was "like a gun to the head."
> 
> GDDKiA said in a statement to Reuters it had postponed calling in the cash to show "good faith" while there was a chance of reaching an agreement.
> 
> On May 14, Alpine Bau announced it was pulling out, claiming the GDDKiA's decision to call the bond was proof the agency was not interested in a constructive solution, which the agency disputes. The following month, Alpine Bau entered insolvency proceedings. A week later, the parent group, Alpine Holding GmbH, followed suit.
> 
> In its statement, GDDKiA said it had shown flexibility with Alpine Bau, for example paying its sub-contractors directly when it was having financial problems, and bringing forward payments to Alpine. It said it worked successfully with many contractors, but the onus was on them to make sure that they bid realistically and carried out the work responsibly.
> 
> "THE STATE IS RESPONSIBLE"
> 
> In July, an alliance of Polish construction industry lobby groups wrote to the Polish government accusing the road agency of using its power to wreck contractors.
> 
> "The state is responsible for the bankruptcy of hundreds of construction companies and for the army of thousands of unemployed Poles who until recently were employed by the construction industry," the letter said.
> 
> In June the ambassadors to Poland of Austria, France, Germany, Ireland, the Netherlands and Portugal wrote a letter of complaint to deputy prime minister Janusz Piechocinski. The letter, a copy of which was seen by Reuters, said the government should intervene "to avoid negative implications to the image of Poland's business environment." The value of claims against the roads agency lodged by contractors with Polish courts stands at about 2.35 billion euros, according to the letter.
> 
> Shirin Wheeler, a spokeswoman for the European Commission in Brussels, said it was looking into whether the contracts were managed in line with EU procurement rules. The Commission has not given details of the investigation, but diplomats say it is linked to contractors' complaints about the road agency.
> 
> On a weekday afternoon in August, the only sign of construction work at the still-unfinished Mszana bridge was a lone man in a high-visibility jacket pacing around, and a forklift truck that delivered a water tank. The motorway between Poland and the Czech Republic is blocked at the bridge, forcing vehicles to make a detour, squeezing through narrow country roads. ($1 = 0.7312 euros)
> 
> (Additional reporting by Jose Elias Rodriguez in Madrid, Georgina Prodhan in Vienna, Jack Watling in London and Adrian Krajewski in Warsaw; Edited by Simon Robinson and Sara Ledwith)



http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/24/us-poland-roads-specialreport-idUSBRE99N05920131024


----------



## ka__zet

I see that lobbyists for incompetent builders are hard at work


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## markfos

^^ well, all those companies thought they would find Eldorado in Poland, but they didn't expect Poland would demand the highest quality, Chinese company history should have been a warning that they are not building roads in Africa but in the very center of Europe.


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## John Maynard

Are there any Polish companies (not foreign owned) that are building motorways in Poland?


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## markfos

^^ there are, but they build roads mainly in cities.


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## geogregor

markfos said:


> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/24/us-poland-roads-specialreport-idUSBRE99N05920131024


Along the similar lines:
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/transport-and-tourism/siac-faces-examinership-after-polish-losses-1.1568640


> Siac Construction, one of Ireland’s largest construction groups, is expected to seek the protection of the courts this week, possibly as early as today, as losses in Poland threaten the 100-year-old business.
> It is expected the application to the courts will be supported by the group’s main lenders, Bank of Ireland, KBC and Bank of Scotland Ireland.
> The Siac group has operations in Ireland, Britain, Belgium, Canada and Poland and has approximately 560 employees. Efforts to get a comment from the group last night were unsuccessful.
> Examinership is a process whereby a company or group of companies can get protection from its creditors while it seeks to put in place a viable plan for a business in difficulties.
> Last year, the group cancelled a €400 million road project in Poland because of a dispute it was having with a local authority there. At the time, Siac chief executive Finn Lyden said the Polish road system was “a total and absolute mess and we felt we were better off out of it”.
> He said the company was going seek damages of €22 million and make a complaint to the European Commission.
> Earlier this year the European Commission announced it was freezing hundreds of millions of euro in development aid for Poland, because of fears of corruption in road-building.
> Siac also pulled out of Polish road-building projects last year citing delays and unexpected costs associated with the Polish roads authority, as did Irish firm Roadbridge.
> Earlier this year, Siac reported profits of €5 million for 2012, with turnover having grown by 13 per cent to €230 million. In the period between 2008 and 2011, the proportion of the group’s activities outside Ireland grew to 60 per cent from 16 per cent.
> Siac is one of the best known of Ireland’s construction companies with recent high profile projects including the Aviva Stadium, Jury’s Hotel in Cork and the M4/M6 motorway. There are a number of subsidiaries in Ireland and abroad.
> The latest annual return for the group filed in the company’s office shows it is owned by 20 shareholders, the majority of whom are individuals.
> On its website, Siac says it was founded in 1913 and that, through a programme of alliances with major international civil engineering contractors and specialist contractors, it is able to undertake multidisciplinary projects of scale and complexity.
> Companies that have successfully gone through examinership in the High Court in the recent past include Eircom and Homebase.
> The Government has recently given the green light for fast-track legislation to facilitate low-cost Circuit Court examinerships for small businesses.
> The move could give thousands of heavily indebted, but otherwise viable, firms an avenue to cut their debts without the massive costs associated with a High Court process.


----------



## mcarling

Blackraven said:


> Any news regarding any kind of construction between Warsaw<->Katowice?


Not since the completion of the new section of the S8. We should see start of construction of the A1 (connecting the existing A1 near Piotrkow Trybunalski to the existing A1 near Pyrzowice) sometime next year.


----------



## Kemo

mcarling said:


> Not since the completion of the new section of the S8. We should see start of construction of the A1 (connecting the existing A1 near Piotrkow Trybunalski to the existing A1 near Pyrzowice) sometime next year.


Let's hope so... the government doesn't seem to have a clear idea how to finance this motorway.


----------



## Blackraven

mcarling said:


> Not since the completion of the new section of the S8. We should see start of construction of the A1 (connecting the existing A1 near Piotrkow Trybunalski to the existing A1 near Pyrzowice) sometime next year.


Ah I see.

In any case however, if the new extension of the A1 will be built, then what would be the effects/consequences of it?

Or to put it in another way, compared to the existing routes (i.e. S86), will this be the fastest way between the two places? Or will it just serve as basically another route or option that will be available to motorists?


----------



## Kemo

Blackraven said:


> In any case however, if the new extension of the A1 will be built, then what would be the effects/consequences of it?
> 
> Or to put it in another way, compared to the existing routes (i.e. S86), will this be the fastest way between the two places? Or will it just serve as basically another route or option that will be available to motorists?


There are two parts of the non-existing section of A1:

Piotrków-Częstochowa: existing dual carriageway (constructed in '70s) with at-grade intersections, there are no built-up areas on the way. The condition of the road is rather bad, last winter several cars were damaged after huge potholes apprared overnight. This section of A1 will be 2x3 lanes.
So construction of this section doesn't create a new option, only improves the existing route.

Częstochowa-Pyrzowice (including Częstochowa bypass): this section will be built from scratch and will be parallel to existing DK1 Częstochowa-Siewierz (which is dual carriageway as well, however this section goes through many built-up areas).
So this section is more important as it will allow to bypass Częstochowa and its suburbs located along old DK1, and will be much faster.

In order to go to Katowice from Pyrzowice interchange one will be able to choose S1 & 86 or 79.


----------



## tm78

Welcome.

The best polish map route:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81380146/mapka-igorsel.png

from: IgorSel 
in: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=391696&page=56

Pzdr. Tomek


----------



## Rombi

UPR20 said:


> Virtually the entire section is lined with sound isolating screens


Definitely!!! Has anything happened to improve this situation? 

I'm sick of it...


----------



## Biesiada

*Car theft statistics for 3 quarters of 2013 (january-september) compared to 2012 according to police *

Number of stolen cars - 10 501 vs 11 379 (2012)

*most stolen cars *

1. volkswagen golf 769 vs 849 (2012)
2. volkswagen passat 514 vs 688
3. audi a4 490 vs 530
4. audi a6 259 vs 252
5. audi a3 209 vs 194


----------



## th1

Biesiada said:


> *Car theft statistics for 3 quarters of 2013 (january-september) compared to 2012 according to police *
> 
> Number of stolen cars - 10 501 vs 11 379 (2012)
> 
> *most stolen cars *
> 
> 1. volkswagen golf 769 vs 849 (2012)
> 2. volkswagen passat 514 vs 688
> 3. audi a4 490 vs 530
> 4. audi a6 259 vs 252
> 5. audi a3 209 vs 194


what does this have to do with road infrastructure ?


----------



## Biesiada

th1 said:


> what does this have to do with road infrastructure ?


it's useful for its users


----------



## cinxxx

^^Is the comparison with whole 2012 or only 3 quarters of it?


----------



## Biesiada

cinxxx said:


> ^^Is the comparison with whole 2012 or only 3 quarters of it?


with 3 quarters of 2012


----------



## Rusonaldo

2 films from Poland

Expressway S8 






Expressway S11


----------



## Sagaris

bewu1 said:


> Today, one more new tender for construction of S-5 expressway from Poznań to Wronczyn (total length of 14 km) (Wronczyn is south of Poznań) was also aunched.


Good news.


rakcancer said:


> In my opinion S5 is a priority. It connects 5 major cities in Poland - Wroclaw-Poznan-Bydgoszcz plus Torun and Gdansk via A1. Yet there is almost nothing done between A1 and Gniezno.


Agree. Wroclaw and Bydgoszcz/Torun have always felt far from Poznan even though both are quite close in straight line geography. The S5 should be one of the biggest priorities, if not the biggest.


----------



## Chris80678

Can anyone tell me if a tender has been announced for the A4 between Rzeszów Wschód and Jarosław Zachód interchanges? This is the only part left to be under construction if the A4 is to be fully completed by the end of 2014


----------



## masages21

Is the A4 to be completed by the end of 2014?


----------



## MichiH

masages21 said:


> Is the A4 to be completed by the end of 2014?


http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/eng.html

The map shows the estimated completion dates.


----------



## m_rocco

db84 said:


> Updated map, s'il vous plait  from here: http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/eng.html changes: A4 (Dębica Wschód - Rzeszów Centralny) - operational:banana: S5 (Głuchowo - Wronczyn) - tender S5 (Radomicko - Kaczkowo) - tender S8 (Mężenin - Jeżewo) - tender


Looking at the map, what's the meaning of D/B tender?
And i don't see any project to upgrade DK1 to S1 from bielsko biala to tychy. They lost interest while opening A1? Two weeks ago i went to poland by S1 an returned in italy by A1 but in S1 there was much more traffic (travelling both times at about 21 o'clock)


----------



## TranslatorPS

#246

"D/B tender" - Design-and-Build under tender. As in, the authority in charge has a tender out for companies willing to design and build the road under the specs provided in the Specification of the authority.


----------



## mcarling

MichiH said:


> http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/eng.html
> 
> The map shows the estimated completion dates.


I thought the map shows the contracted completion dates.


----------



## Kemo

Chris80678 said:


> Can anyone tell me if a tender has been announced for the A4 between Rzeszów Wschód and Jarosław Zachód interchanges? This is the only part left to be under construction if the A4 is to be fully completed by the end of 2014


No. because the building company (Polimex) hasn't been kicked from this contract 



masages21 said:


> Is the A4 to be completed by the end of 2014?


There is a chance. However, if Polimex keeps on "working" as they do now, we will need to wait for 2015 



m_rocco said:


> And i don't see any project to upgrade DK1 to S1 from bielsko biala to tychy.


It is not going to be upgraded. A brand new motorway is planned a bit to the east of existing DK1. There are problems with choosing the variant, because of coal mines/Natura 2000 areas/proximity of Auschwitz concentration camp.


----------



## Strzala

Aleja Solidarności, one of accesses to Lublin bypass:






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntu3vJQ445w


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## rakcancer

Example of disastrous overbuilding of noise barriers. This bridge was open recently near town of Brzeg Dolny in Lower Silesia. As you see in the satellite image there is nothing to be protected from noise, unless I am wrong , maybe fish and frogs became so sensitive since we are in EU?



panwalen said:


> Znalezione na YT. Uwaga bo strasznie trzęsie




Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## John Maynard

All these noise barriers seems crazy and unnecessary. I used to live in Warsaw, 300 meters near a main railway line; everyday I got used to wake up at 4 AM because of the horn honking of trains that were passing and made an awful amount of noise (especially freight trains), but there was not a single noise barrier in place, and they aren't till now. Maybe, what is to blame is corruption? I don't believe that a single carriageway country road without much traffic deserve such an exaggeration, in the middle of nowhere, while inhabitants of cities suffers from enormous amount of disturbance, without any protection. Let's discuss it.

On the other way, as for Switzerland, many people that lived near motorways had to (and still have to) fight in courts to get some noise protection. Per example, a city like Morges which was cut in the middle by a motorway since 1963, had to wait till the mid-1990's to get some noise barriers put in place. Also, there are still very few noise protection for trains (but they are rarely horn honking here). So till quite recently, it's wasn't better either.


----------



## rakcancer

I am not in total opposition to noise barriers but there is a reason and limitations to use them. They neither fit to rural areas as in example above nor in the middle of cities in densely built areas. The ONLY places for them like it is in other countries, is to placed along motorways in suburban areas. That is it. In the meantime I just learn that this maddens continuous. There is going to be built noise barriers according to the project of widening of Wołoska st, which is one of the main streets in Warsaw, in the middle of city.:bash:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## Urbanista1

The problem with noise barriers is not due to corruption but to a still backward legal system that allows anyone to block any development unless they get exactly what they want. There is a massive level of paranoia and hysteria promoted by all media that reinforce the Polish persecution complex (persecuted by businessmen and government), so the investors are building these silly barriers to eliminate opposition to essential road projects.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Excessive use of noise barriers effectively puts Poland behind another "iron curtain". In a few years you can't see much of the country while traveling through. It's simply madness.


----------



## rakcancer

It reminds me a bit of lobbing system in USA. What was the reason of creating such a strict regulation which are beyond anything in EU? Please, don't tell me that an environmental issues made their way here. It must to be supported by those who made that noise barriers. They are clear winners here.


----------



## bewu1

New tender for construction of a S-19 expressway section - western bypass of Lublin was lauched today. The length is 9.8 km.


----------



## Strzala

bewu1 said:


> New tender for construction of a S-19 expressway section - western bypass of Lublin was lauched today. The length is 9.8 km.


:banana:

Green section:


----------



## rakcancer

Lublin is getting 3/4 of full ring. Congrats!


----------



## MichiH

Strzala said:


> :banana:Green section:


Why is the section b/n Wezel Plouszowice and Wezel Dabrowica missing?


----------



## Kemo

MichiH said:


> Why is the section b/n Wezel Plouszowice and Wezel Dabrowica missing?


Because the map is inaccurate. 
It is almost impossible to find a 100% correct map of planned or constructed roads prepared by our "journalists".


----------



## Urbanista1

congrats Lublin, an amazing progressive city with a very bright city ahead of it and this ring road will no doubt improve it's functioning.


----------



## Strzala

MichiH said:


> Why is the section b/n Wezel Plouszowice and Wezel Dabrowica missing?


Srry,my bad. Of course announced tender is from "Węzeł Dabrowica" to "Węzeł Konopnica" section


----------



## Hoff

Urbanista1 said:


> The problem with noise barriers is not due to corruption but to a still backward legal system that allows anyone to block any development unless they get exactly what they want. There is a massive level of paranoia and hysteria promoted by all media that reinforce the Polish persecution complex (persecuted by businessmen and government), so the investors are building these silly barriers to eliminate opposition to essential road projects.


None of this is true.

The main legal reasons for building such amounts of noise barriers are:
- noise levels are measured at the external walls of buildings - so other noise reduction means like quiet windows are useless
- noise reduction norms also apply for industrial and service areas
and (probably) the most important one:
- noise barrriers must protect both built-up areas and areas designated for potential future development (hence the large amounts of barriers protecting woods or meadows).


----------



## ka__zet

One of the oft-forgot things - future noise level is directly related to design speed of the road. So pretty much all those lovely G/GP class pseudo-motorways going through areas marked as residential get noise barriers.

A lot of people do not realize that upping speed limit to 80 from 50 has lots of design consequences.


----------



## Urbanista1

Hoff said:


> None of this is true.
> 
> The main legal reasons for building such amounts of noise barriers are:
> - noise levels are measured at the external walls of buildings - so other noise reduction means like quiet windows are useless
> - noise reduction norms also apply for industrial and service areas
> and (probably) the most important one:
> - noise barrriers must protect both built-up areas and areas designated for potential future development (hence the large amounts of barriers protecting woods or meadows).


I see my apologies for the error. But then hasn't the president announced a change in these standards to eliminate the need for these screens in many cases and the blight they cause on the landscape?


----------



## rakcancer

I think it is already changed. These recent barriers come from the time of that strict regulations.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Very nice... 



Starver said:


> 121.


----------



## Hoff

Urbanista1 said:


> I see my apologies for the error. But then hasn't the president announced a change in these standards to eliminate the need for these screens in many cases and the blight they cause on the landscape?


They simply lowered the noise standards, keeping the aforementioned rules in force. So basically they will still build these barriers in the middle of nowhere, but at the same time some built-up areas will be left unprotected. One bad solution was replaced by other bad solution :roll:

If they (the government) really cared about this situation, they would have changed at least some of those regulations - e.g. distinguising between built-up areas and areas designated for future development in spatial plans and limiting noise protection only to the former would notably reduce the amount of barriers installed. But I guess that lobbysts are busy at the Ministry of Environment.


----------



## Chris80678

Is the S17 Lublin bypass supposed to open at the end of this month or in December? 

I am not sure if only the S17 from Bogucin/Jastków up to Lublin - Sławinek is supposed to open to traffic or if the rest of Lublin bypass up to the existing S17near Świdnik is supposed to be opened at the same time?


----------



## Kemo

Chris80678 said:


> Is the S17 Lublin bypass supposed to open at the end of this month or in December?
> 
> I am not sure if only the S17 from Bogucin/Jastków up to Lublin - Sławinek is supposed to open to traffic or if the rest of Lublin bypass up to the existing S17near Świdnik is supposed to be opened at the same time?


The only section that is likely to open this year is the short section Felin - Zadębie (on eastern side of Lublin, between existing S17 and road 822).

The rest should be opened around June, probably all sections at the same time.


----------



## masages21

There are no spatial plans in Poland. That's the problem


----------



## ufonut

S69 in Bielsko Biala by *Stalone*


----------



## Urbanista1

Hoff said:


> They simply lowered the noise standards, keeping the aforementioned rules in force. So basically they will still build these barriers in the middle of nowhere, but at the same time some built-up areas will be left unprotected. One bad solution was replaced by other bad solution :roll:
> 
> If they (the government) really cared about this situation, they would have changed at least some of those regulations - e.g. distinguising between built-up areas and areas designated for future development in spatial plans and limiting noise protection only to the former would notably reduce the amount of barriers installed. But I guess that lobbysts are busy at the Ministry of Environment.


sadly lobbyists are in a nutshell one of the main reasons people feel alienated from their governments. speak to any American or Canadian about this and you'll get an earful.


----------



## Hoff

masages21 said:


> There are no spatial plans in Poland. That's the problem


I would say that's just one side of the problem. Because even if there are spatial plans enacted by the local government, the spatial policy in Poland right now is "avoid any conflicts, paint the whole sh*t brown" (brown being the default color for "low density residential area" on Polish spatial planning maps). And as designating large areas for future development makes no consequences for the government (they are not obligated to construct new roads/power lines/other infrastructure for those areas), they've been designating them like crazy during the last few years. And if you got lots of those new development areas, you get lots of noise barriers. Even if there will be no buildings really built there.


----------



## Chris80678

Oh are we not going to have any more motorway / expressways openings in 2013 then? :bash:


----------



## Kemo

Chris80678 said:


> Oh are we not going to have any more motorway / expressways openings in 2013 then? :bash:


Possible openings:

A1 Toruń South - Włocławek West (road 62)
S8 Syców - Walichnowy (road 14)
S14/S8 Dobroń (end of existing S14) - Róża (junction S8/S14) - Rzgów (road 1)
A4 Jarosław West - Jarosław South
A4 Radymno - Ukrainian border
S17 Lublin Felin - Lublin Zadębie
61 Stawiski bypass
"Salomea - Opacz" - urban expressway in Warsaw


----------



## mr.cool

http://www.theconstructionindex.co.uk/news/view/poland-gets-andeuro250m-loan-for-new-motorway

Is this information wrong? Half of the section described is already completed, the other half is due to finish this year..


----------



## mr.cool

http://www.theconstructionindex.co.uk/news/view/poland-gets-andeuro250m-loan-for-new-motorway


----------



## geogregor

Few days ago I finally had a chance do drive the A8 Wroclaw bypass, here are few shots:


























































































Opole via DK94 :bash::bash:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Lubawka on A8? That's weird. DK8 ends at Kudowa-Zdrój.


----------



## mcarling

Chris80678 said:


> Oh are we not going to have any more motorway / expressways openings in 2013 then?


It will depend largely on the weather. There will be more openings if the weather will remain mild.


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Lubawka on A8? That's weird. DK8 ends at Kudowa-Zdrój.


It is lack of consistency. They sign the best route to Lubawka via A4 and then DK5
But they should direct to Opole the same way via A4 rather via DK94 through Wroclaw.


----------



## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> Lubawka on A8? That's weird. DK8 ends at Kudowa-Zdrój.


Can you see darker blue color to the left of Lubawka? [5] [E261] was originally written there.


----------



## albiman

geogregor said:


> Few days ago I finally had a chance do drive the A8 Wroclaw bypass, here are few shots:
> <same photos as above>


i see only sound barriers. Poles ruins their whole joy of travelling through their nice landscapes due to this insane barriers. I assume it was not cheap...:bash:


----------



## ufonut

Warsaw (S2/79/8) by *Droo*



Droo said:


> Dawno tu nie zagladalem, wiec mam zaleglosci z postepow, ale udalo mi sie dzis rano ustrzelic kilka fotek z lotu ptaka


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Not much activity south of S2 yet. Isn't this under construction for a few months now?


----------



## Kemo

Technically they are still in design optimalization phase. Some minor works (like demolishing buildings) are being carried out though.


----------



## m_rocco

Maybe mine is a silly question or someone have already answered it in the past.
Why polish are building lot of S-class roads and not autostradas? I mean... Main roads like S8, S5 or S3.
Other question, upgrading DK8 section from mszczonow to warszawa is already in project?
Thanks everybody


----------



## mcarling

m_rocco said:


> Maybe mine is a silly question or someone have already answered it in the past.
> Why polish are building lot of S-class roads and not autostradas?


A-class roads are more expensive than S-class roads.


----------



## masages21

There are a couple of differences:

1. Bigger interchanges angle (S class road)
2. There are no hotels (S)
3 speed limit 120km/h (S) 140km/h (A class)
3. Tolls for vehicles below 3.5t (A)


----------



## Rusonaldo

Highway A4 from Dębica to Rzeszów


----------



## michael_siberia

Meanwhile on the construction site of A1 in Łódź (Polimex-Mostostal, our "favourite" contractor):


los77 said:


> ^^Obiekt BB-10 , Biuro Budowy - pomieszczenie nr 10, zbrojenie się w cierpliwość.


----------



## Pascal20a

What will the next motorway in Poland who will be opened?


----------



## toonczyk

Pascal20a said:


> What will the next motorway in Poland who will be opened?


A1 Toruń - Włocławek in a month or something like that.


----------



## Pascal20a

And the section Radymno Korczowa?


----------



## Kemo

Kemo said:


> Possible openings:
> 
> A1 Toruń South - Włocławek West (road 62)
> S8 Syców - Walichnowy (road 14)
> S14/S8 Dobroń (end of existing S14) - Róża (junction S8/S14) - Rzgów (road 1)
> A4 Jarosław West - Jarosław South
> A4 Radymno - Ukrainian border
> S17 Lublin Felin - Lublin Zadębie
> 61 Stawiski bypass
> "Salomea - Opacz" - urban expressway in Warsaw


Oh, I forgot, there is one more section that will probably open in December:
S19 west of Rzeszów (between A4 and DK94).



m_rocco said:


> Maybe mine is a silly question or someone have already answered it in the past.
> Why polish are building lot of S-class roads and not autostradas? I mean... Main roads like S8, S5 or S3.


Good question, no good answer. However, A or S doesn't really make a difference for drivers.



> Other question, upgrading DK8 section from mszczonow to warszawa is already in project?


Yes, tender for upgrading this section will be announced till the end of this year.



mcarling said:


> A-class roads are more expensive than S-class roads.


Maybe slightly, but this is not a big difference. The statistical difference is rather caused by the fact that many "A" go through difficult terrain (like A8 with bridge over Odra, A1 in mining region of Silesia).



masages21 said:


> There are a couple of differences:
> 1. Bigger interchanges angle (S class road)


What do you mean?



> 2. There are no hotels (S)


Well, do we have any notable hotels on A?  Hotels are planned on both S ans A.



> speed limit 120km/h (S) 140km/h (A class)


Unless our autostrada misses a hard shoulder :troll: and has speed limit of 110km/h.



> 3. Tolls for vehicles below 3.5t (A)


Myth. Not all sections of A are tolled. S roads can also be tolled, they just are not at the moment.



Pascal20a said:


> And the section Radymno Korczowa?


Yoy are annoying with your constant questions about this section.  Probably in December, but we are not sure and we don't know the exact date.


----------



## PLH

A4 right at the Ukrainian border, looking west. You can see trucks lined up:

This 'show-off' section is in concrete, 2x3 lanes.



jarfi said:


> A4 z granicy na zachód
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Po lewej TIRy do granicy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Od granicy na zachód do WD54


----------



## MajKeR_

Many years ago Germans brought their motorways to Polish border. Now Poles are leading the motorway east and bringing it to Ukrainian border. 

I know that motorways at currently Polish teritory actually existed many years ago and it was a reminder of German times, but I meant motorways in actual meaning.


----------



## bzbox

Looks like a very busy border crossing or is it just Ukrainians complicating a lot?

However, great work on A4! What about Tarnów - Dębica section???


----------



## Don Roberto

ChrisZwolle said:


> And why for the love of god do they sign tiny places 600 kilometers away near borders? :nuts: :bash:
> 
> i mean this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I know, it is ridiculous. Showing some villages at the border on road signs. You would not believe how often me and some other people intevened. The reason for that is a stupid law written in the codex saying that the last possible place on one particular road needs to be displayed. An absolute nonsense I agree.


----------



## Theijs

It would make sense if they would but the 'UA' or 'customs' sign behind the name of the respective border village...


----------



## TommyLopez

^^ This is absolutely useless... They should sign there first big town behind the border (Lviv/Lwów in this case with UA oval). Many years ago when Czech D5 motorway was completed we had the same issue, there was Rozvadov (last Czech village) on the signs in direction towards Germany but people were unsatisfied with that and it was changed to Nürnberg with D oval


----------



## Kemo

TommyLopez said:


> ^^ This is absolutely useless... They should sign there first big town behind the border (Lviv/Lwów in this case with UA oval).


Name of the border crossing should also be signed. Why? Because some border crossings allow only passenger car traffic, while others allow also truck traffic, and there are also crossings that allow only trucks.

This of course doesn't apply to Schengen border crossings.


----------



## mcarling

Kemo said:


> Name of the border crossing should also be signed. Why? Because some border crossings allow only passenger car traffic, while others allow also truck traffic, and there are also crossings that allow only trucks.
> 
> This of course doesn't apply to Schengen border crossings.


Poland has non-Schengen border crossings with Russia (Koenigsberg), Belarus, and Ukraine. Which crossings allow only one of cars or trucks?


----------



## Kemo

mcarling said:


> Poland has non-Schengen border crossings with Russia (Koenigsberg), Belarus, and Ukraine. Which crossings allow only one of cars or trucks?


Kukuryki (DK68) - trucks
Zosin (DK74) - passenger cars
Połwce (DK66) - passenger cars and only for PL and BY citizens
Sławatycze (DK63) - passenger cars and buses

Some other also have limitations (like truck weight)

I agree that showing these places on distance signs is ridiculous, especially hundreds kilometres ahead, however they should stay on direction signs.


----------



## Theijs

mcarling said:


> Poland has non-Schengen border crossings with Russia (Koenigsberg), Belarus, and Ukraine. Which crossings allow only one of cars or trucks?


There are two entrances from Terespol to Brest (BY), one via A2, only for cars, arriving to the centre of Brest, one via A68, arriving to the M1 bypass.


----------



## Chris80678

When the A4 motorway between Radymno and Korczowa eventually opens won't there be huge queues of traffic and jams of lorries, cars and trucks waiting to cross into Ukraine? Surely this will cause no end of tailbacks far back further up the motorway?


----------



## Theijs

Chris80678 said:


> When the A4 motorway between Radymno and Korczowa eventually opens won't there be huge queues of traffic and jams of lorries, cars and trucks waiting to cross into Ukraine? Surely this will cause no end of tailbacks far back further up the motorway?


It's a 17km long distance, so the Ukraians should strike or have a bank holiday to get such a long queue. At Medyka I have rarely seen long ques of lorries, perhaps only cars are allowed there?


----------



## Chris80678

I am not banking on a December opening for this section of the A4 anyway from the photos on the website it looks far from ready for traffic


----------



## mcarling

Kemo said:


> I agree that showing these places on distance signs is ridiculous, especially hundreds kilometres ahead, however they should stay on direction signs.


It seems to me that there should be a set of signs prior to the point of divergence for the car and truck routes. I agree that listing border villages on distance signs is ridiculous.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Imho, border villages should only be signed after you've passed the last control city. Terespol is not relevant west of Warszawa.


----------



## TommyLopez

Kemo said:


> Name of the border crossing should also be signed. Why? Because some border crossings allow only passenger car traffic, while others allow also truck traffic, and there are also crossings that allow only trucks.
> 
> This of course doesn't apply to Schengen border crossings.


Is there any *motorway* border crossing closed for trucks in Poland??? :nuts: If so there is specific road sign for that case, name of the border crossing doesn't really help for foreigners.


----------



## ufonut

Warsaw S8 - destruction of existing infrastructure in order to build it anew
Photos by *M_J_J*

Good scenery for filming zombie apocalypse..


----------



## Rombi

This should be a photo of a last photo in this thread. The Apocalypse ^^


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Is there any data on how many ecoducts (wildlife overpasses) there are in Poland? I've read an article in a Dutch newspaper this morning claiming the Netherlands had the largest amount of ecoducts in the world, but I think Poland is catching up quickly, if not overtaken NL already.


----------



## toonczyk

What were the numbers (for NL) cited in the article? I don't have the numbers for Poland, but we could try estimating that.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It was about 40 or 43 I believe (both finished and under construction). About 30 of those were built in the last 8 years or so.


----------



## MichiH

ChrisZwolle said:


> It was about 40 or 43 I believe (both finished and under construction).


The country in between has 64 completed ecoducts.


----------



## markfos

What about other EU countries, only NL and PL are so "eco"?


----------



## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> It was about 40 or 43 I believe (both finished and under construction). About 30 of those were built in the last 8 years or so.


On A2 Świecko - Konotopa alone there are ~ 20 ecoducts (most of them, 14 IIRC, on Świecko - Nowy Tomyśl stretch), so overall I think we have no less than 60 of them...


----------



## Surel

MichiH said:


> The country in between has 64 completed ecoducts.


I read that in 2011 they had 58 finished, 18 in construction and 55 more planned.



markfos said:


> What about other EU countries, only NL and PL are so "eco"?


In CZ there are around 10 I think.

Foto | Anders Sjölund, Mattias Olsson / The Swedish Transportation Administration, prezentace na konferenci IENE 2010









This is relevant to the issue I think. Source


----------



## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is there any data on how many ecoducts (wildlife overpasses) there are in Poland? I've read an article in a Dutch newspaper this morning claiming the Netherlands had the largest amount of ecoducts in the world, but I think Poland is catching up quickly, if not overtaken NL already.


There are also wildlife underpasses (when a highway viaduct is not there because of a particular obstacle or it is much bigger than needed to cross an obstacle). Do they also count?


----------



## MichiH

Surel said:


> I read that in 2011 they had 58 finished, 18 in construction and 55 more planned.


Germany seems to be the number one among the stupiest (green terror) nations hno:.

The http://autobahnatlas-online.de shows 64 completed and 67 u/c and planned ecoducts on autobahnatlas relevant roads (according to latest update - October 2013 version).

4 ecoducts were opened in 2012/13. A couple of ecoducts were opened in late 2011.



Kemo said:


> There are also wildlife underpasses (when a highway viaduct is not there because of a particular obstacle or it is much bigger than needed to cross an obstacle). Do they also count?


No.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kemo said:


> There are also wildlife underpasses (when a highway viaduct is not there because of a particular obstacle or it is much bigger than needed to cross an obstacle). Do they also count?





MichiH said:


> No.


I don't think so either. Some underpasses are quite elaborate (to the point of longer span bridges), but many are just culverts with a small diameter.


----------



## MichiH

^^ The German statistic contains only overpasses .


----------



## Sunfuns

Do they actually help? Any statistics on that?


----------



## Rusonaldo

Expressway S8 Wrocław - Łódź (Złoczew - Sieradz)


----------



## MichiH

Sunfuns said:


> Do they actually help? Any statistics on that?


Of course! For instance the German A11 ecoduct near Joachimsthal was used more than 40,000 times in only 8 years. About 14 animals are crossing it per day (Source). The A1 ecoduct near Wittlich was used more than 8,000 times in only 4 years. About 6 animals per day (Source).


----------



## tamerlan80

Don Roberto said:


> ChrisZwolle said:
> 
> 
> 
> And why for the love of god do they sign tiny places 600 kilometers away near borders? :nuts: :bash:
> 
> i mean this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I know, it is ridiculous. Showing some villages at the border on road signs. You would not believe how often me and some other people intevened. The reason for that is a stupid law written in the codex saying that the last possible place on one particular road needs to be displayed. An absolute nonsense I agree.
> 
> 
> 
> I think there can be the name of the border village, but should be a sign ZOLL/DOUANE after the name. Then you know that this is border. This is non Schengen border, so its name is on transport documents and visa stamps.
> The first large city behind the border should be on sign also.
Click to expand...


----------



## panthiocodin

actually you are right saying that Korczowa is a border village between Poland and Ukraine


----------



## DSzumaher

*S3: Gorzów Wlkp. - Międzyrzecz*
_Click the above link to see full set._


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What is up with the huge amount of noise barriers? It runs through unpopulated area that does not seem to be a natura-2000 area.


----------



## tamerlan80

DSzumaher said:


> *S3: Gorzów Wlkp. - Międzyrzecz*
> _Click the above link to see full set._


Beautiful cross section of the road. You can see how much there are necessary sound barriers. Despite the fact that the road is in the trench.


----------



## DSzumaher

ChrisZwolle said:


> What is up with the huge amount of noise barriers?


Is a large amount? The relative issue. At the 37.6 km route will be 12.6 km (6.3 km / side) of noise barriers, of which less than half will be higher than 2 m.



> It runs through unpopulated area that does not seem to be a natura-2000 area.


Unpopulated?



tamerlan80 said:


> Beautiful cross section of the road. You can see how much there are necessary sound barriers. Despite the fact that the road is in the trench.


At this picture will be no noise barriers, but chiropterological nets like these.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes, unpopulated


----------



## DSzumaher

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yes, unpopulated


Here will be noise barriers 2 m high (at 2 ecoducts) along... 360 m (180 m / side).
Large amount. :crazy2:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Then what is this?









I don't get it, they put great attention to designing bridges, yet regular motorways seems to have no landscape plan at all.


----------



## rakcancer

This is real nightmare...


----------



## Reivajar

Furthermore they are not transparent... extremely boring to drive along the new motorways... 

And from a landscaping point of view it is extremely controversial... not a good design for sure.


----------



## DSzumaher

ChrisZwolle said:


> Then what is this?


6 posts back.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, these nets appear almost the same as noise barriers at 120 km/h. Why are these necessary anyway, I've never seem them elsewhere in Europe.


----------



## DSzumaher

ChrisZwolle said:


> Well, these nets appear almost the same as noise barriers at 120 km/h.


Sure? From personal experience, better visibility than with a fully transparent noise barriers.



> Why are these necessary anyway, I've never seem them elsewhere in Europe.


Nietoperek nature reserve, the largest bat reserve in Europe.


----------



## michael_siberia

*THIS* MA532:


RadoslawJ said:


> Wrzucam parę zdjęć MA532 z czwartku.
> 
> 1. Widok od strony Gliwic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Zbliżenie na łącznicę.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Montaż elementów odbywał się z 6 podnosnikow naraz.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Widok od południa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6. Dylatacja od strony Gorzyczek
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8. Poza MA532 trwało wykaszanie traw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ogólnie powoli do przodu.


Also - today was announced the name of new Minister of Transport. New minister is Elzbieta Bienkowska (Minister of Regional Development). Both ministries will be connected. She also became deputy prime minister.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

DSzumaher said:


> Sure? From personal experience, better visibility than with a fully transparent noise barriers.


Yes, close by you can look through it, in the distance, they become one solid screen, totally ruining the landscape and view.



> Nietoperek nature reserve, the largest bat reserve in Europe.


I've read that before... in another country. Anyway, is this really necessary, or is it just a way to avoid appeals and complaints at all cost? This looks like a motorway built through a zoo. Bats live elsewhere in Europe as well, where you don't see excessive nets like these. All you need is some proper guidance over the motorway for bats, using natural elements in the landscape (such as tree lines). Further north on S3 there is a bat gantry over the motorway, wasn't that possible here?


----------



## DSzumaher

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yes, close by you can look through it, in the distance, they become one solid screen, totally ruining the landscape and view.


In this case, can it be seen from a distance? :crazy2:



> Anyway, is this really necessary, or is it just a way to avoid appeals and complaints at all cost?


I'm not a chiropterologist, so I don't know.



> Bats live elsewhere in Europe as well, where you don't see excessive nets like these.


Perhaps because there aren't 30,000 bats and then not thought about their protection. :crazy2: 
Lest there, I'm not an ecologist (neither an ecoterrorist).



> Further north on S3 there is a bat gantry over the motorway, wasn't that possible here?


Maybe they are ineffective and stopped to apply. Instead, these nets are used.


----------



## Chris80678

Have they repaired the infamous bridge MA532 on the A1 at Mszana yet?


----------



## postHUMANproject

MichiH said:


> ^^ The German statistic contains only overpasses .


Dutch too, including underpasses the Netherlands boasts over 600 wildlife crossings. Near Crailo they have built the longest wildlife overpass in the world (800m) btw.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nah, the figure of 800 meters is inflated. The ecoduct consists mostly of embankments and two bridge structures of 35 m and 135 m.

location: http://goo.gl/maps/2mdjW


----------



## ChrisZwolle

rakcancer said:


> Bridge itself is not impressive. Probably it is going to look like the one built recently in north part of Warsaw.


Hmm, bummer, I was hoping for a landmark bridge


----------



## rakcancer

Good you put:  We don't need another landmark we need something that has no noise screens.


----------



## toonczyk

Chris80678 said:


> Is the S8 from Salomea to the interchange with S2 still supposed to open by December this year?


Possibly even this week.


Starver said:


> 22. Gdy już zmierzałem w stronę wyjścia, zaskoczyło mnie słoneczko.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (...)
> 
> 24. Nieźle nam się ten odcinek miejski prezentuje
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ]


----------



## markfos

ChrisZwolle said:


> Hmm, bummer, I was hoping for a landmark bridge


Too many of landmark bridges in Poland, it's getting boring .


----------



## ChrisZwolle

These landmark bridges have to compensate for all the ugly commieblocks 

In seriousness, the amount of landmark bridges at normal interchanges are maybe too much, but a river crossing is quite significant. As people like architecture, bridges need some decent architecture as well, especially if they are significant bridges (i.e. not just another overpass). 

I don't see the link between noise barriers and bridge design.


----------



## rakcancer

You really don't see the link between noise barriers and bridge design? This is North bridge in Warsaw designed and built from scratch:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes noise barriers can be put on bridges too, but I don't see what it has to do with picking the bridge design (i.e. cable-stayed or extradosed or cantilever or box girder).


----------



## rakcancer

Well you are right, just want to say that any even best design can be destroyed by these ugly barriers. In case of bridge on S2 there are two things that made that bridge looks how it looks: money and some environmental issues which I am not an expert in here to explain of.


----------



## markfos

Don't be surprised if you see noise barriers in upcoming tunnels in Poland .


----------



## mcarling

Noise barriers are important on bridges over rivers, because of the possibility of endangered species of air bubbles in the water, which could be disturbed by road noise. :nuts:


----------



## markfos

Yes, and we also know that Polish frogs have wings and they fly. I guess Poland has got too much money.


----------



## Kemo

markfos said:


> Don't be surprised if you see noise barriers in upcoming tunnels in Poland .


Well.. (photos by *michael_siberia*)




































This is A1, section Pyrzowice - Piekary Śląskie.
https://maps.google.pl/?ll=50.41439...=cDGTNMHfJ77Gs0Ryc25dZA&cbp=12,162.88,,0,-1.8


----------



## markfos

^^ :rofl: I must be dreaming, WTF?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That is likely also a wildlife crossing.


----------



## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> That is likely also a wildlife crossing.


Yes it is.
But putting such barriers there makes it more narrow which may possibly deter animals from going through here.
Anyway, how can an animal know on which side of the barrier it is supposed to go?
Also, the traffic on this road is rather low.


----------



## Surel

^^
If it is wildlife crossing that is not that good design anyway, as the fencing/noise barrier ends just outside the overpass. And the acess road on one side of the motorway renders it rather useless as well.
It could be explained as reserve for future enlargement while utilized as wildlife crossing atm. Anyway quite strange indeed.

Btw, the motorway has sound barriers as well, but they are rather nice - glass ones.


----------



## Andrzej_Kubica

Poland is not a country. It's a state of mind.


----------



## ufonut

DK16 Grudziadz-Olsztyn-Ogrodniki by *los77*










Looks pretty much ready.


----------



## mcarling

^^
Which part of the DK16 is dual carriageway? Certainly not Augustow - Ogrodniki. Where was the above photo taken?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think this is near Biskupiec.


----------



## macieii

^^ Check the arrows:
Red arrow = sure to be delayed, new completion date TBD (unknown)
Yellow arrow pointing down - likely to be delayed, new completion date TBD
Yellow arrow pointing up - likely to be open sooner, new completion date tbd


----------



## markfos

Tunel in Gdańsk, the TBM is about to finish drilling its first tube in a few days, then it will be transported on the other side of the river and will start drilling the second tube.


----------



## Kemo

John Maynard said:


> If you don't mind, it would be very interesting too, to show GP-class and other bypasses.


I will try to prepare such list, however it may take several days


----------



## mr.cool

At what temperature can construction of roads continue to be built? Like binding layers, asphalt, etc? Currently Poland is around -3 to +2C..just interesting if work can still be progressed during these conditions.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Usually around 5 - 7 °C. However it is possible to pave asphalt below freezing, but it's not an optimal solution and "only if you really have to". Most construction companies are not willing to give a warranty as they do in normal conditions.


----------



## ufonut

S6 between Gdynia and Gdansk (dont know who took this picture).


----------



## keokiracer

It's from the GDDKiA Twitter page.


----------



## Rusonaldo

Interchange in Poland


----------



## ufonut

Tender for S8 (border of Mazovia to bypass of Zambrow) was announced today. Length is 14.9 km. It's a third contract announced this year for building S8 between Warsaw and Bialystok. All sections of S8 in Podlaskie voivodeship are now either completed or undergoing tender process.


----------



## ufonut

GDDKiA is working on implementing the largest integrated telematic road management system in Europe called National Traffic Management System (it will cover A and S roads). Initial costs will run at approximately 700 million PLN and first parts of this new system will be online in 2015. 

Website is already under construction:

http://www.kszr.gddkia.gov.pl/index.php/en/


----------



## dexter2

Viaduct overthrust timelapse in 68 hours (exact process in 4 hours) in Łódź


----------



## Blaskovitz

^^ wow! Amazing!


----------



## toonczyk

GDDKiA published a video showing the new experimental signage introduced on A1:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=648353808550502

It's definitely a step in the right direction.


----------



## rakcancer

I agree, not much changes just added exit numbers. Small step in right direction.


----------



## toonczyk

There are a few more changes than that - for example overhead signs are now all the same height, direction arrows are properly placed over lanes, interchange names and selection of cities to display on signs are now reasonable. It's obviously not a revolution, we hoped for a lot more, but that's a lot better than what we have today.


----------



## Kemo

Kemo said:


> I will try to prepare such list, however it may take several days


So here's the result of my work, Polish version but I think it is easy to figure out what is what. 
"Obejście" or "obwodnica" = bypass
"Bezkolizyjna" = grade-separated
"Most" = bridge


----------



## PLH

The very first all-new motorway signage:



michalzbrzezin said:


>


Better but still far from good.


----------



## metacatfry

Does that mean on and offramps are actually numbered in the Polish system?


----------



## RipleyLV

PLH said:


> The very first all-new motorway signage:


Barely any difference apart from the distance sign.


----------



## mcarling

RipleyLV said:


> Barely any difference apart from the distance sign.


I respectfully disagree. Having the arrows aligned with the lanes which they represent makes, in my opinion, a big difference.


----------



## RipleyLV

mcarling said:


> I respectfully disagree. Having the arrows aligned with the lanes which they represent makes, in my opinion, a big difference.


Ain't that like it's now?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Not on roadways with 3 or more lanes.


----------



## RipleyLV

Well, if someone posted a picture of that, there wouldn't be much fuss.


----------



## Kemo

RipleyLV said:


> Well, if someone posted a picture of that, there wouldn't be much fuss.


http://maps.google.pl/?ll=50.252789...d=OPj3bRZ9uuXtW8M-Lfvx9w&cbp=12,79.04,,1,2.85
http://maps.google.pl/?ll=50.130607...y4AdAjVzE0qjhQx3Phw&cbp=12,11.69,,1,-0.2&z=16


----------



## RipleyLV

^^ I meant picture of a 3 lane road with the new signage.


----------



## MajKeR_

PLH said:


> The very first all-new motorway signage:
> 
> (...)
> 
> Better but still far from good.


What exactly do you want to complain?


----------



## bleetz

Kemo said:


> http://maps.google.pl/?ll=50.252789...d=OPj3bRZ9uuXtW8M-Lfvx9w&cbp=12,79.04,,1,2.85
> http://maps.google.pl/?ll=50.130607...y4AdAjVzE0qjhQx3Phw&cbp=12,11.69,,1,-0.2&z=16


I suppose if these were new signs, you would have a little arrow above each lane of traffic, i.e. the blue sign would be wider and have three little arrows pointing up above each lane, while the green sign would be smaller and have one little arrow pointing to the top right above the right lane. Did I understand the change correctly?


----------



## geogregor

ufonut said:


> S6 between Gdynia and Gdansk (dont know who took this picture).


Great photo. Looks like somewhere in New England


----------



## Kemo

New DK16 (8,2km) opened for traffic. The road is still unfinished though, most of it is missing the last layer of asphalt. It will be finished by mid-2014.

(photo by GDDkiA)









It is located here
http://maps.google.pl/maps?saddr=Tr...;FfV2NQMduuNBAQ&mra=dme&mrsp=1&sz=15&t=h&z=13


----------



## ufonut

Two new tenders for S17 were announced today. Total length is 25.2 km (from Garwolin bypass to voivodeship border between Mazovia and Lublin). 

Another 3 tenders for S17 (from Lubelska interchange to Garwolin bypass) will be announced this December.


----------



## makaveli6

Are there anymore plans for building new expressway segments on DK16 in near future?


----------



## Kemo

^^


Kemo said:


> Olsztyn and Ostróda bypasses, construction of these sections will start in 2014.


Whether Olsztyn bypass will have motorway standard is unclear, currently they are planning to build two roundabouts instead of the most important junction with S51.
SSC forumers are doing everything they can to prevent this crap from happening.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What are the chances of this segment of S69 opening this month?


----------



## makaveli6

Kemo said:


> ^^
> 
> 
> Whether Olsztyn bypass will have motorway standard is unclear, currently they are planning to build two roundabouts instead of the most important junction with S51.
> SSC forumers are doing everything they can to prevent this crap from happening.


I remember driving the S16 (though I used some local roads for a while to cut the Augustow corner) from Baltic states to Gdansk last summer. It was a nightmare to drive in night, they need to build a higher standart there ASAP. hno:


----------



## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> What are the chances of this segment of S69 opening this month?
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/NHqm0jI.png


Zero. That segment of S69 is not anywhere near being ready to open. I think it can be opened by the end of 2014, but I would not be terribly shocked if part of it were to slip into 2015.


----------



## mcarling

*A1 Piotrkow Trybunalski to Pyrzowice*

If I understand the article correctly, this final section of the A1 will be tendered in early 2014 and the road is hoped to be open to traffic in 2016.

http://wyborcza.biz/biznes/1,100896,14911837,GDDKiA__komplet_zgod_na_budowe_A1_na_poczatku_2014.html


----------



## rakcancer

mcarling said:


> Zero. That segment of S69 is not anywhere near being ready to open. I think it can be opened by the end of 2014, but I would not be terribly shocked if part of it were to slip into 2015.


What? How come construction of S69 last so long?


----------



## toonczyk

mcarling said:


> If I understand the article correctly, this final section of the A1 will be tendered in early 2014 and the road is hoped to be open to traffic in 2016.


If we're talking about hope, then we hoped it'd be open to traffic in 2012 

Right now we simply don't know, because it's a political decision still to be made (or at least to be announced). In 2-3 months the whole remaining A1 will have all permits necessary to start construction, but it's up to the politicians to decide who's gonna build it. The idea has always been to built this section in some sort of public-private partnership and that's probably what's going to happen, but any details are surrounded by a shroud of secrecy (actually I'm seeing Ministry of Transport's people in court over this secrecy in a few hours, they've already been ordered by court to publish information regarding this matter, but they appealed...).


rakcancer said:


> What? How come construction of S69 last so long?


Financial trouble (slash bankruptcy) of the main contractor, Polimex Mostostal. Three of their largest contracts - A1, A4 and S69 - have been heavily affected by their financial problems.


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## mcarling

toonczyk said:


> If we're talking about hope, then we hoped it'd be open to traffic in 2012


You're right. I meant: It is _currently_ hoped ….


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## markfos

Toruń

FB


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## ChrisZwolle

A nicely designed bridge, you don't see that many new large arch bridges in Europe anymore. Ralph Modjeski would be proud.


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## m_rocco

A1 bridge?


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## ChrisZwolle

It's part of the new DK91. DK91 substitutes DK1 (that happens if a DK-route gets bypassed by an autostrada), but this is entirely new alignment, also known as the "eastern route".


----------



## Hetman

ChrisZwolle said:


> What are the chances of this segment of S69 opening this month?


Nope. It used to be communicated a couple months ago. The most recent knowledge is here


----------



## mcarling

Hetman said:


> The most recent knowledge is here


If the predictions on the list come true, then 139.7 kilometers will open this month and 331.6 kilometers in 2014. We'll be seeing the slow-down between the 2007-2013 and 2014-2020 EU budget cycles. We should see a steep increase from 2015 to 2016 in kilometers completed.


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## ChrisZwolle

October 2014 also doesn't seem realistic for this project:


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## Proterra

ChrisZwolle said:


> October 2014 also doesn't seem realistic for this project:


According to Hetman's link, the current opening date is June 2015.

Too bad though, last week I had to move a friend to the north part of Łódź and I can tell you, it's a pain getting into that city from the south...


----------



## Kemo

Proterra said:


> According to Hetman's link, the current opening date is June 2015.


It's because GDDKiA announced a tender for security service on the section of S8 between DK91 and A1 (which cannot be opened until A1 is finished). The date in this tender is June 2015. The meaning of it is obvious.


----------



## toonczyk

Technically it's possible that they'll open A1 for traffic in about 10-11 months, but that seems very unlikely considering main contractor's financial trouble. I think mid 2015 is a reasonable prediction.


----------



## Hetman

mcarling said:


> If the predictions on the list come true, then 139.7 kilometers will open this month and 331.6 kilometers in 2014. We'll be seeing the slow-down between the 2007-2013 and 2014-2020 EU budget cycles. We should see a steep increase from 2015 to 2016 in kilometers completed.


Most of the tenders released in 2013 and intended to be completed next year will have 3yr completion terms. Seems that years 2015-2016 will not be significant in terms of new road openings. I would rather expect big boom in the years 2017 and after.


----------



## Strzala

Junction "Lublin Felin" on S12/S17 Lublin bypass:



oliniusz said:


> No to ja zgłaszam widok z lotu ptaka, do poprawki: :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Podmieniłem zdjęcia na ciut ostrzejsze..





oliniusz said:


> ^^ Oby tego nie podchwycili na naszej obwodnicy
> 
> Jeszcze jedno zapodziane:


----------



## MajKeR_

^^ Strain your seeing, find where the motorway actually is


----------



## Kemo

"Progress" on S69 (Polimex), photos by *John Deere*

27.10.2013:









8.12.2013:


----------



## m_rocco

Choose the differences? Mmm snow and missing roulotte


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## mcarling

At the pace indicated by the photos above, the S69 could open in December 2099. More realistically, I worry that GDDKiA might have to cancel the contract and re-tender.


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## Luki_SL

m_rocco said:


> Choose the differences? Mmm snow and missing roulotte


In spite of this, there is no differences.... :nuts:


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## Chris80678

Meanwhile it is anyone's guess if the A1 from Torun to Wloclawek Zachód (DK62) will open to traffic as predicted on Sunday 15th December 2013 :lol:


----------



## markfos

Driving "Trasa Wschodnia" with a new arch bridge in Toruń.


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## Strzala

Nice photo(Toruń):



> http://torun.gazeta.pl/torun/1,7956...ie_i_pl__Daszynskiego__FILMIKI_.html#TRrelSST


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## torunczyk

Few more pictures:



neolp said:


> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...07377630.39188.118794484838979&type=1&theater





torunczyk said:


> I jeszcze kilka fotek
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> źródło





krystiand said:


> 71.
> 
> 
> 72.
> 
> 
> 73.
> 
> 
> 74. Fajerwerków nie nauczyłem się robić, chyba za długo naświetlałem
> 
> 
> 75.
> 
> 
> 76.
> 
> 
> Wszystko. Powtórzę jeszcze raz - gratuluję świetnego mostu :cheers:


----------



## bewu1

Today, 5 new tenders for constructions of expressways were launched: 3 sections of S-17 from Warsaw (Lubelska junction) to beginning of Garwolin by-pass, total length of 36 km, and 2 section of S-16 Olsztyn by-pass, total length of 24 km.

So far, Olsztyn by-pass is not indicated on this map http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=57782627&postcount=3 .


----------



## toonczyk

^^ Actually Olsztyn bypass is not going to be an expressway.


----------



## Kemo

And it's not S51, only DK16.


----------



## bad_boy

bewu1 said:


> Today, 5 new tenders for constructions of expressways were launched: 3 sections of S-17 from Warsaw (Zakret junction) to beginning of Garwolin by-pass, total length of 36 km, and 2 section of S-51 Olsztyn by-pass, total length of 24 km.
> 
> So far, Olsztyn by-pass is not indicated on this map http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=57782627&postcount=3 .


Small correction: the tendered section is from Warsaw Lubelska -ntersection to Garwolin (it does not include Warsaw Zakret to Warsaw Lubelska section with their intersections).

Without that short strech joint traffic from S2 and S17 merging at Warsaw Lubelska intersection will be chanelled via old DK17 until Zakret. So hopefully they will tender that short strech soon together with S2.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

toonczyk said:


> ^^ Actually Olsztyn bypass is not going to be an expressway.


I've read that the DK16 is just a formality away from attaining expressway status, and will be constructed with expressway layout to allow a later upgrade to S16 without needing to go through an expensive reconstruction to bring it up to standards.


----------



## toonczyk

^^ Yeah, it's GP class, but changing it to S16 would probably be just a formality.


----------



## PhirgataZFs1694

markfos said:


> Tunel in Gdańsk, the TBM is about to finish drilling its first tube in a few days, then it will be transported on the other side of the river and will start drilling the second tube.


Do you happen to know how much does the TBM cost?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Secret S16 Olsztyn*


----------



## Luki_SL

bewu1 said:


> Today, 5 new tenders for constructions of expressways were launched: 3 sections of S-17 from Warsaw (Zakret junction) to beginning of Garwolin by-pass, total length of 36 km, and 2 section of S-51 Olsztyn by-pass, total length of 24 km.
> 
> So far, Olsztyn by-pass is not indicated on this map http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=57782627&postcount=3 .


Map of expressway S17 Zakręt junction - Wiązowna I - beginnig of Garwolin bypass :









http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/13736/Ekspresem-z-Warszawy-do-Lublina


----------



## ufonut

Self explanatory.


----------



## Strzala

*Lublin, aleja Solidarności - one of access to city bypass: 
*






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BRM9RS0A3U


----------



## Chris80678

So is the A1 from Toruń (Czerniewice) to Włocławek Zachód (DK62) going to open to traffic on Friday 20th December 2013?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Toruń*

Amazing...



rakim said:


> autor: Marcin Łaukajtys


----------



## Chris80678

del


----------



## keokiracer

Chris80678 said:


> Yes I agree the bridge is amazing but I asked about the A1


Seriously dude, have some patience. Not even an hour has passed since you asked your question.
Nobody here has a job that consists of answering your questions ASAP you know...


----------



## Chris80678

keokiracer said:


> Seriously dude, have some patience. Not even an hour has passed since you asked your question.
> Nobody here has a job that consists of answering your questions ASAP you know...


OK noted


----------



## markfos

Driving the new "Trasa Uniwersytecka" in Bydgoszcz.






and "Trasa Wschodnia" in Toruń by night


----------



## ufonut

A1 Lodz South Interchange (photo by procurement oversight authority)


----------



## mcarling

^^
The A1/S8 interchange shown above has been clearly designed and built with provisions to facilitate a possible future extension of the S8 eastward. I think it would make sense to re-plan the S12 to end here.


----------



## maxam

No one post it? Shame on you The part of S19 was open yesterday - 5km near Rzeszów.


----------



## bewu1

A-1 motorway section Toruń-Włocławek is open.


----------



## Bzyq_74

S-8 expressway section Syców-Walichnowy (45km) is open.


----------



## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> I noticed many new motorway openings in Poland happen during the late evening or even after midnight. Is there a specific reason for that?


No reason really - they open them as soon as they get proper paperwork. Final checks take a few hours and then you need to coordinate opening of interchanges, unveiling new signs etc. Usually they start all procedures in the morning, but then there are almost always some little details to fix (either in paperwork or actual signage), so they take a few hours to fix them (or a few days for example when it's a problem with maps) and try again. I think it's great that GDDKiA has a policy of opening roads as soon as it's possible, even if that means working overtime and assemblying a team at midnight. I'm glad we've left pompous opening ceremonies behind, with drivers forced to use an old road while a brand new one is ready, but still closed because everybody's waiting for some official to show up to cut the ribbon.


----------



## Kemo

toonczyk said:


> some official to show up to cut the ribbon.


This actually still happens on roads that are not delayed (like S3 - juncton with A2 or S8 today). Since most of them caught huge delays, this doesn't happen often


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Poland has overtaken the Netherlands today in motorway length! Congratulations 

PL 2.474 km
NL 2.436 km


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## m_rocco

Lots of xmas presents here  wszystkiego najlepszego


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## [email protected]

I hope soon we start seeing more and more 'red' on the Polish highway map 
Good to see out highway network develop.


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## Kemo

Driving videos from recently opened roads:

A4





A1





Nobody has yet uploaded a video from S8


----------



## Pascal20a

Will be there a extra border crossing for the A4??


----------



## Kaczorm

^^

For the time being the current crossing in Korczowa will be used.


----------



## Pascal20a

And is there a continue of the A4 in the Ukraine?


----------



## Kaczorm

No.


----------



## Sienioslaw

^^
You mean a continuation of Motorway-class road on Ukrainian side? Not yet, but heard they want to build one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_M10_(Ukraine)
Ask them for details, if you care.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Korczowa. A4 comes from the left and ends at the existing border crossing.


----------



## Sienioslaw

S8 road: epic moment with first cars on new road





Looking forward for first car relation :cheers:


----------



## Theijs

Pascal20a said:


> And is there a continue of the A4 in the Ukraine?


On the Ukrainian side of the border the E40/M10 continues to L'viv/Lwów and beyond


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## Kaczorm

Of course it continues but I guess the question was if there is a highway of European standards out there. So the answer is: no.


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## Kemo

Sienioslaw said:


> Looking forward for first car relation :cheers:


by *witos*


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## Chris80678

I thought that the S8 from Salomea to Opacz (S2) and the S17 from Lublin Witosa to Lublin Mełgiewska were supposed to open to traffic next week?


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## Adiks

bad_boy said:


> Great news: today GDDKiA is announcing three tenders in and around Warsaw:
> 
> 1) second part of *S2* from *Pulawska *Intersection to *Lubelska *Intersection (*18,5 km*, budget PLN 6.7 bln);


~90 MLN Euro / 1 km. Like... seriously? :nuts:

I know it's like 3 lanes, heavy built, some bridges etc... but still...


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## toonczyk

Adiks said:


> I know it's like 3 lanes, heavy built, some bridges etc... but still...


2,5km long tunnel, 1km long bridge over Vistula river, another 1,5km bridge over Mazowiecki Park Krajobrazowy and lots of smaller ones... Seriously, this price estimate surprises you?


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## rakcancer

TBM at construction site of road tunnel under Dead Vistula in Gdansk:



dr0 said:


> Źródło tekstu i zdjęć: http://www.gik.gda.pl/investmentNew...je_z_budowy_iv_zadania_trasy_slowackiego.html
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> Jest też nowy artykuł na Trojmiasto.pl


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## Japinta

Niemiec w Polsce said:


> Best example is Gdansk where you have the tri-city train, public transport in Gdansk, in Sopot and in Gdynia and for each system you have to buy a different ticket :nuts:



Not really http://www.mzkzg.org/?subpage=pod&art=35&op=,,,


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## Adiks

toonczyk said:


> 2,5km long tunnel, 1km long bridge over Vistula river, another 1,5km bridge over Mazowiecki Park Krajobrazowy and lots of smaller ones... Seriously, this price estimate surprises you?


Actually, it still does. For this price they could have built 12 Most Rędziński. It is not like it's gonna be a super structure of any kind. I will wait until the tender is finished and we will have the final price for this.


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## ChrisZwolle

http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/13817...tniego-odcinka-Poludniowej-Obwodnicy-Warszawy 

GDDKiA says 4 billion złotych. Which sounds a bit more reasonable than 6.7 billion.


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## rav00

ChrisZwolle said:


> http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/13817...tniego-odcinka-Poludniowej-Obwodnicy-Warszawy
> 
> GDDKiA says 4 billion złotych. Which sounds a bit more reasonable than 6.7 billion.


It's about Konotopa-Pulawska with connection to Marynarska via s79.


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## Rusonaldo

Summary 10 years of road construction in Poland


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Nice, you've been on nearly every motorway


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## ChrisZwolle

A4 opens to traffic today, from Radymno to the Ukrainian border. This is the first motorway to reach the eastern border of Poland and the first motorway overall to reach any part of the Ukrainian border. The opened segment is 22 kilometers long.


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## eeee.

I didn't read the recent posts so I'm sorry if the answer is somewhere there.

Is it already possible to drive this way on A4:
http://goo.gl/maps/9YdrH

I ask because of:
http://goo.gl/maps/c6dVb

Thanks a lot.


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## Kemo

eeee. said:


> I didn't read the recent posts so I'm sorry if the answer is somewhere there.
> 
> Is it already possible to drive this way on A4:
> http://goo.gl/maps/9YdrH
> 
> I ask because of:
> http://goo.gl/maps/c6dVb
> 
> Thanks a lot.


Yes, it is possible.

BTW, the best way to navigate around Poland is Targeo. They even have the recently opened section of A4.


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## ChrisZwolle

Has Węzeł Opacz indeed been signed with that name in the field?


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## Kemo

^^












mizin said:


>


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## ChrisZwolle

Is Opacz - Salomea considered a part of S8?


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## Pascal20a

In the german wikipedia stands the wezel Korczowa is not finished yet. Why that?? Where you can go away from the A4?


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## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is Opacz - Salomea considered a part of S8?


At the moment there is no road number signage along this section. It won't be part of S8.



Pascal20a said:


> In the german wikipedia stands the wezel Korczowa is not finished yet. Why that?? Where you can go away from the A4?


https://maps.google.pl/?ll=49.95771...id=WXWQYmK2A3k6UThGaufz5A&cbp=12,142.5,,0,1.6
Here, turn right to the border terminal.


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## Pascal20a

Why it is not finished?


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## and802

ChrisZwolle said:


> A4 opens to traffic today, from Radymno to the Ukrainian border. This is the first motorway to reach the eastern border of Poland and the first motorway overall to reach any part of the Ukrainian border. The opened segment is 22 kilometers long.


definately this is good news. I mean A4 reached Ukrainian border. 
but still cannot understand it is so important for us (Poles). I do not know what happened in the past we decided to contract full A4 while we left very important section of A1 (Piotrkow - Slask) without proper attention.

well, of course I am very happy, it is good to have extra 22 km of motorways, but who the hell it is goona use it soon ? no border posts


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## [email protected]

Kemo said:


> ^^


 If I saw a sign like this on a highway, I would assume that you need to turn right to get to all the places listed. Is this the case or is the sign just misleading? Kinda confusing.


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## ChrisZwolle

When is tolling expected to start on A1 Kowal - Łódź, A2 Łódź - Warszawa and A4 Kraków - Tarnów?


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## PLH

javimix19 said:


> - Is the European Union financed a lot of motorways in Poland since 2004? Well, I know the answer, yes, but I want to know how many km are financed by EU. In Spain 40% of km of motorways between 1986 and 2013 were financed by EU money.


In Poland all motorways are EU funded, except for A2 Łódź - Warsaw (90kms) and, in the future, A1 Piotrków - Katowice (ca. 130 km).



javimix19 said:


> - Why there are tolls in the new motorways? I live in Spain, and all the motorways constructed since 1988, except a few motorways (financed by EU) haven't got tolls. Now majority of motorways in Spain are toll free.


Even with EU funding we can't afford new roads and maintenance without toll money. It's as simple as that.



ChrisZwolle said:


> No such motorways are planned in Poland.


This is very important - we are not planning any redundant motorways as they did in Spain (like 5 ringroads of Madrid), ONLY really essential, basic stretches.


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## ChrisZwolle

mcarling said:


> … and just a bit more territory to cover than the Netherlands.


Yes. The way how cities are spread out over a country are a major factor in how long a motorway network needs to be to connect them all. Poland, Germany and Spain are examples of countries where the population is relatively evenly spread out throughout the country, requiring a large network to connect all cities with each other. On the other hand, countries like the United Kingdom, Italy or Switzerland can serve a large proportion of the cities with just a few corridors. 

Poland has 40 cities with a population of over 100,000 people, so they need a large network - projected at circa 7,400 km - to connect them all, without going into the process of building multiple parallel motorways like they did in Portugal or Spain.


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## JackFrost

PLH said:


> in the future, A1 Piotrków - Katowice (ca. 130 km).


when will constructing of this section start?

whats the 700 kilometers to be launched next year? thanks.


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## markfos

^^ Yellow and orange roads are tendered, construction wil start in 2014.


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## Kemo

Darhet said:


> As of December 2013, 1,491.4km of motorways are in use and 1,269 km of expressways are currently in use.Total length of highways (2x2; 3x2) in Poland-* 2739,7* km


Still, our "network" does not have even a single closed loop 



[email protected] said:


> Great progress but still a lot of work to be done. Im worried about the fact that the amount of motorways under construction is not really increasing.


The amount is decreasing because the motorways get finished and opened for traffic 



javimix19 said:


> - Why there are tolls in the new motorways? I live in Spain, and all the motorways constructed since 1988, except a few motorways (financed by EU) haven't got tolls. Now majority of motorways in Spain are toll free.


Actually most motorways ("S" class) are not tolled for passenger vehicles. "A" class motorways are supposed to be tolled but it takes several years to launch the tolling system.
At the moment, there are only 6 tolled sections:
- A1 Gdańsk - Toruń
- A2 Rzepin - Poznań (junction A2xS5/S11)
- A2 Poznań (junction A2xS5) - Golina
- A2 Konin - Stryków
- A4 Wrocław - Gliwice
- A4 Mysłowice - Kraków



PLH said:


> In Poland all motorways are EU funded, except for A2 Łódź - Warsaw (90kms) and, in the future, A1 Piotrków - Katowice (ca. 130 km).


And of course EU doesn't cover 100% of the cost.




markfos said:


> ^^ Yellow and orange roads are tendered, construction wil start in 2014.


Since orange stretches are desing & build tenders, construction works will start in 2015.


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## mcarling

Kemo said:


> Still, our "network" does not have even a single closed loop


Exactly! It's more like a patchwork than a network. Even when all roads now under construction will be completed, there will still not be a single closed loop (of motorway/expressway roads). I guess about ten years from now, the set of motorways and expressways will be developed enough to call it a network. Anyway, great progress and keep it up!


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## MichiH

mcarling said:


> Even when all roads now under construction will be completed, there will still not be a single closed loop (of motorway/expressway roads).


I guess the first one will be A2 / A1 / S8 / A8 / A4 / S3 (Poznan - Lodz - Wroclaw).


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## mcarling

MichiH said:


> I guess the first one will be A2 / A1 / S8 / A8 / A4 / S3 (Poznan - Lodz - Wroclaw).


I guess the first closed loop might be A1/A2/S2/S8 (Piotrkow Trybunalski - Lodz - Warsaw). We'll see.


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## Kemo

MichiH said:


> I guess the first one will be A2 / A1 / S8 / A8 / A4 / S3 (Poznan - Lodz - Wroclaw).


Or the first international loop:

A4 - A1 - (Czech Republic) - D1 - R35 - R46 - D1 - R1 - D5 - (Germany) - A6 - A93 - A72 - A4

If they open the Mszana bridge 

Also
A6 - S3 - A2 - (Germany) - A12 - A10 - A11 next summer.


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## Rombi

What about the violet? Is it part of project going to be started next year?


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## mcarling

Rombi said:


> What about the violet? Is it part of project going to be started next year?


It is a Design and Build project scheduled to be completed December 2015.


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## Lucky Luke

Not every motorway is financed by EU. For example A1 Gdansk-Torun, A2 Slubice-Konin and A4 Katowice-Krakow were built ( or rebuilt ) by private companies.

A1 from Tuszyn to Katowice is also considered to be build in PPP.

As for Highways they are all co-financed by EU. Depending on importance and traffic significance EU funds 50% to 85% of the total cost.


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## -Pino-

mcarling said:


> Exactly! It's more like a patchwork than a network. Even when all roads now under construction will be completed, there will still not be a single closed loop (of motorway/expressway roads). I guess about ten years from now, the set of motorways and expressways will be developed enough to call it a network. Anyway, great progress and keep it up!


You can develop a loop fairly quickly, but I am not sure whether it is a good measure for success. In grid systems a loop develops quicker than in many other types of system, such as the radial systems of France and Spain or the spinal system of Italy.

Poland will eventually develop into something like a grid, but I would say that they did the right thing by first focusing on the East-West corridors and spur roads that have the biggest cities connected. Connectors between those East-West routes are a next stage. A1 and S8 would indeed be the stand-out candidates. Lots of work to do, but progress has been good indeed.


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## mcarling

-Pino- said:


> You can develop a loop fairly quickly, but I am not sure whether it is a good measure for success.


I agree that a loop is not a good measure of success, but loops will be found in any well developed road system. The absence of loops is an indicator that success has not yet been reached. The presence of a loop leaves an open question regarding success.


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## beto_chaves

ChrisZwolle said:


> Poland has 40 cities with a population of over 100,000 people, so they need a large network - projected at circa 7,400 km - to connect them all, without going into the process of building multiple parallel motorways like they did in Portugal or Spain.


ChrisZwolle, do you know that even these parallel motorways serve different destinations? If you look to A1, A29 and A32 (all in Porto metro Area) they run parallel. However, A1 is like a national distribution motorway, and A29 and A32 serve local destinations (they have much more exits than A1).


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## Eulanthe

I was actually thinking about this recently, and Poland doesn't have that much left to build to connect much of the country with reasonable roads. 

Poznan-Wroclaw is probably the most important in terms of not having started construction yet. The Leszno-Stęszew section should also have been tendered this year, and I'm not sure why it hasn't been yet. Still, living in Poznan, it's now much easier to get to the other side of the country, even if it's via the not-great DK1 from Łódź to Katowice.


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## -Pino-

mcarling said:


> I agree that a loop is not a good measure of success, but loops will be found in any well developed road system. The absence of loops is an indicator that success has not yet been reached. The presence of a loop leaves an open question regarding success.


The development of the Polish network in a way reminds me of what happened in Italy and the UK. The latter two focused on two large North-South axes and cross-connections allowing for loops involving the North-South axes only came later on (though of course, both of them had a big East-West route being the A4/M4). Poland has its East-West axes and there are no North-South axes yet that allowing for complete loops. In all three countries, the major cities mostly sit in straight lines, which does not quite invite to quickly build cross-connections if the axes in the middle serve most.

Surely Poland's network cannot be considered a success without at least two connections between the two, but it remains a part of the plan that is rightfully phase 2. As it was in countries like the UK, France and Italy, where they first built the biggest axes and only then started bothering about the connections allowing for interchanges between those axes. Where a motorway network is being constructed on that basis -because the demand for transportation can be serviced with two or three main corridors only-, lack of loop does not say as much about lack of success than it would in a country whose major population areas lay scattered. If French, Italian and British history is to repeat itself in Poland, the (longer-distance) loops will become available between 5 and 10 years after completion of the main East-West axes.


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## mcarling

^^
I don't think Britain and Italy are comparable to Poland because Britain is completely and Italy is mostly surrounded by water. Poland is mostly surrounded by land, which greatly impacts the nature of the road network. I think Germany would be a better example.


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## -Pino-

^^ I disagree. A motorway network is defined by the distribution of the population and merchandise. This explains the East-West focus in Poland. Merchandise comes from, and needs to be sent to, the West. One might argue that, as far as this is concerned, Poland is almost as much as a peninsula as Italy. The border crossings in the South are up and coming, but they will continue to lose out against those in the West, plus terrain is trickier there.

The densely populated regions are either on the A2 or on the A4. The exceptions Stettin and Gdansk are neatly connected to, again, the A2. This cannot be compared with Germany, where distribution of the population cannot be tied to a couple of corridors only. It is therefore hardly surprising that Germany built its motorway network as a grid. But it is one of the few European countries that did so, with most other countries opting for either main central axes or a spider web type of approach. It should not surprise anyone that Poland's route network is not developing like Germany's.


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## ChrisZwolle

Although east-west corridors had a slightly higher priority, the difference with north-south corridors is relatively small, within 5 years there will be 4 major north-south motorways/expressways (significantly) completed (A1, S3, S5 & S7). 

I think it's a bit of western European stereotype that Poland needs routes towards the west the most. Poland has a large domestic market. The busiest corridor is Warszawa - Katowice, which is north-south.


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## -Pino-

^^ I am not saying that Poland needs its East-West motorways for export only. The two East-West motorways would primarily service the biggest towns of the nation that are either on or well connected to the A2 and the A4.

Nonetheless, decent North-South corridors through the centre of the country have to come. Maybe demand for them was just slightly loser than demand for construction of the A2 and the A4 because North-South corridors often seem much more tied to two cities only rather than the strings of cities that sit along the A2 and the A4.


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## Kemo

Motorways are not the only roads that Poland builds 

New bridge over Wisła in Kamień

http://maps.google.pl/?ll=51.125001,21.792423&spn=0.003502,0.009645&t=m&z=17



Lary said:


>


New bridge over Wisła in Połaniec

http://maps.google.pl/?ll=50.425417,21.332531&spn=0.028434,0.077162&t=m&z=14



Chill Out said:


>


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## Kemo

50 km of eastern A4 Jarosław (Wierzbna) - Korczowa (UA border) by *jarfi*

Quite picturesque actually :cheers:



jarfi said:


>


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## Chris80678

When is the Korczowa exit to DK94 supposed to open to traffic?


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## lauda

Could someone explain to me why highway bridges from concrete are painted in Poland? Is that not just a waste of money and invitation for graffiti sprayer?


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## POLAMCO

^^I was thinking, that grey concrete is like invitation for kids with cans.


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## geogregor

lauda said:


> Could someone explain to me why highway bridges from concrete are painted in Poland? Is that not just a waste of money and invitation for graffiti sprayer?


Structures are painted to protect concrete from atmospheric conditions.
Often even if concrete looks unpainted it still has protective layer, just transparent.
Now, about colors. Myslef I prefer natural, "concrete" color but unfortunately designers in Poland seems to have predominant view that the more cheerful and kitschy the color the better.
I think partially it is response to compensate for grayness during the communist era. 



POLAMCO said:


> ^^I was thinking, that grey concrete is like invitation for kids with cans.


Grey or silly yellow or high-vis green they are all equally attractive for kids with cans. Unfortunately.


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## cinxxx

I like the colors in PL


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## rakcancer

*Extention of DTS expressway in Upper Silesia between Zabrze and Gliwice:*



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Kazusik said:


> Przeglądając stronę UM-Gliwice natknąłem się na kilka zdjęć ukazujących budowę DTŚ z nieco innej/większej perspektywy niż dotychczas prezentowane w wątku W/g opisu na stronie UM-Gliwice przedstawiają stan z grudnia 2013. Oto one:
> 1. _Węzeł z A1_
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> Autorem zdjęć jest K. Krzemiński.


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## Rusonaldo

Road construction - Expressway S8.


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## michael_siberia

Visualization of future S6 Kołobrzeg-Koszalin, direction Koszalin:


michalzbrzezin said:


>


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## John Maynard

Very nice constructions. But, driving in Poland is still very unpleasant compared to Western Europe, not only for its still mainly bad road network, but also for its very aggressive, selfish drivers which are nothing more than public dangers on wheels. Already this week, a drunken driver hit and killed 6 pedestrians along with children for New Year's Eve. It is very sad to notice that PL has the worst death toll on roads in UE. As an example, driving at more than 100 km/h through villages or cities is just commonly accepted and widespread, completely ignoring the danger posed to pedestrians, children, old persons and other road users. Also, try to respect the speed limit and you always get drivers self proclaimed to "punish" you, by making fishtails or crushing the brakes after overtaking you, along other bad things, even if you are already going too fast for the road conditions. As a matter of fact, if Poles were to behave that way in Switzerland, most of them would already have lost their driver's license; but in Poland, it's considered as an extreme derogation, even if well deserved and justified. And dangerous drivers are always on the roads again. When this madness is going to stop?


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## markfos

^^ Lithuania has the highest fatality rate in EU not Poland.


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## ChrisZwolle

Poland has the third highest rate though (2012), after Lithuania and Romania. Greece used to be worse, but is now slightly better, perhaps due to reduced traffic volumes, in 2010 Greece had the worst traffic safety in the EU.


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## Strzala

Overpass through Bystrzyca river valley at S12/S17 Lublin bypass:



CzeRo said:


> 25. Estakada w całości
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> 21. W oddali jakieś prace.



And visualization of future S17 Warsaw- Kurów:



michalzbrzezin said:


>


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## Dantiscum

John Maynard said:


> Very nice constructions. But, driving in Poland is still very unpleasant compared to Western Europe, not only for its still mainly bad road network, but also for its very aggressive, selfish drivers which are nothing more than public dangers on wheels. Already this week, a drunken driver hit and killed 6 pedestrians along with children for New Year's Eve. It is very sad to notice that PL has the worst death toll on roads in UE. As an example, driving at more than 100 km/h through villages or cities is just commonly accepted and widespread, completely ignoring the danger posed to pedestrians, children, old persons and other road users. Also, try to respect the speed limit and you always get drivers self proclaimed to "punish" you, by making fishtails or crushing the brakes after overtaking you, along other bad things, even if you are already going too fast for the road conditions. As a matter of fact, if Poles were to behave that way in Switzerland, most of them would already have lost their driver's license; but in Poland, it's considered as an extreme derogation, even if well deserved and justified. And dangerous drivers are always on the roads again. When this madness is going to stop?


Oh, I think you exaggerate a lot. What you are writing about was truth maybe about 10 years ago, but since a couple of years it's slowly improving. Of course there are still many maniac drivers, but now it's a small minority I think. And it's not commonly accepted for sure.
What the more serious problem is, are the drunken drivers. I hope after this horrible accident you wrote about, the whole discussion in the mass media and in the parliament will lead to some substantial decisions.


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## dexter2

^^ No, It is still correct. Maybe better than 10 years ago, but still as dangerous as can be compared to Austria, Germany, Sweden, USA. Italians are really bad drivers too, but at least they respect speed limits in cities.


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## Fane40

dexter2 said:


> ^^ No, It is still correct. Maybe better than 10 years ago, but still as dangerous as can be compared to Austria, Germany, Sweden, USA. Italians are really bad drivers too, but at least they respect speed limits in cities.


Italians bad drivers ?! It's a joke ?
Where you saw that ?
I'm suprised italian forumers already have not protest against that.
But all of them don't respect speed limits in cities, particularly in the south and sicily.


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## mcarling

Fane40 said:


> Italians bad drivers ?! It's a joke ?


From my experiences driving in Italy, I would say that the typical Italian drivers are skilled but not courteous or particularly safe.


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## asahi

John Maynard said:


> (...)driving at more than 100 km/h through villages or cities is just commonly accepted and widespread


That is a huge exaggeration. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but saying it's "commonly accepted" isn't true at all. 


John Maynard said:


> When this madness is going to stop?


It is going to stop when more motorways and express way are built. It's as simple as that. Maybe not completely, but the scale will be much smaller.
At some point in the past someone decided it's ok for villages and towns to be built along the national roads. At that time there was very little traffic, so everything was fine. Later, since 1989 Poland experienced an enormous increase in the number of vehicles. People stopped travelling by trains and buses in favour of their own four wheels. But the roads weren't (you could say still aren't) ready for such traffic volume. Many bad decisions were made throughout the years regarding road construction, but it's finally getting better. And it's getting better really fast.
However, until travelling around takes waaay too much time than it should, people will be speeding. It's stupid, but time is money and no one wants to spend that time on the road. 
To give you an example, on Friday afternoon a trip from Poznań to Wrocław (around 180 km) takes 3~3.5h. These are two biggest cities in Western Poland with sh*tload of people travelling between them. Plus there are also people generally travelling north or south bound on DK5. The road is far from perfect - it's single carriageway, goes through many towns and smaller cities. I'm sure when S5 express way is finished, 90% of people will not exceed the 120 km/h speed limit. It just won't be necessary. 

We'll also see a huge change in the statistics. I'm pretty sure of that. Meanwhile speed cameras and police traps in the most dangerous places will have to do.



Fane40 said:


> Italians bad drivers ?! It's a joke ?
> Where you saw that ?


Err... almost anywhere in Italy? The North is much better than the South, but I still wouldn't call that "good".


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## Kanadzie

Maybe he means Italy, part of Poland, near S2 

I think PL drivers are best I have experienced, very courteous (even let you pass 3 on 2 lane road, always flash when there is hazard ahead, etc). all issues with safety are due to inadequate roads, and PL is building the good roads as fast as possible (except... where is my S 79 Warszawa -> Sandomierz -> Krakow?!)

for drunk, what can we do, it is illegal and we know better. Everywhere now and then a tragedy happens. it is really bad when politicians try to make hay with these. Look at that case in Texas, where drunk ran over some people, and was acquitted because lawyer argued "he is too rich so couldn't know better" :lol:

My favorite is the dashcam Youtube videos. You see Rossiyan ones always, cars are flying in the air and all kinds of insanity. Someone also put "polski drogi" video with Polish dashcam videos, nothing happens :lol:


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## ka__zet

Kanadzie said:


> all issues with safety are due to inadequate roads,


Nope, speeding twice the limit (or more) through residential roads, notorious driving through red signals and pretty much complete disregard to pedestrians and cyclist are _not_ due to inadequate roads.


----------



## Kanadzie

ka__zet said:


> Nope, speeding twice the limit (or more) through residential roads, notorious driving through red signals and pretty much complete disregard to pedestrians and cyclist are _not_ due to inadequate roads.


You have to admit that situation is not so bad. People walk outside and don't expect to die  I am not sure how many drive through red signals. I live overseas but spent lots of driving, and I can't remember any (aside from passing on "expired yellow"). Not more that in US or Canada for example. But, at instant when the light turns green, Pole is already moving, else, horn! 

I admit though, first time I was in Poland. I was only in the country for maybe two hours, and I am driving my rental car down I think DK 9. I see person waiting to cross street at marked crossing, so I start to stop (in Canada, must always stop for pedestrian in the crossing), there is truck behind me, the woman looks at me like I am crazy and does not dare move 1 cm :nuts:


----------



## ka__zet

Kanadzie said:


> You have to admit that situation is not so bad. People walk outside and don't expect to die


They also do not expect that anybody will yield to them, or that they will be safe on road crossing with green llight. This is not an optimal situation, to say the least :banana:



> I am not sure how many drive through red signals. I live overseas but spent lots of driving, and I can't remember any (aside from passing on "expired yellow"). Not more that in US or Canada for example.


"Late yellow" is red. Maybe it's not more than in US or Canada, but it is certainly more than in Western Europe.



> But, at instant when the light turns green, Pole is already moving, else, horn!


Well, it depends on region. In some parts of the country light turning green means "it's time to start remembering where the 1st gear is". 




> I see person waiting to cross street at marked crossing, so I start to stop (in Canada, must always stop for pedestrian in the crossing), there is truck behind me, the woman looks at me like I am crazy and does not dare move 1 cm :nuts:


Well, guess why. Or look at first 30s of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ro0rMSFCVc


----------



## Kanadzie

ka__zet said:


> They also do not expect that anybody will yield to them, or that they will be safe on road crossing with green llight. This is not an optimal situation, to say the least :banana:
> Well, guess why. Or look at first 30s of this video:


This is dangerous crossing design though. Nobody wants to run over old lady, but the area is very dark and so is her clothes. Stopped car should be obvious indication, but it's on the right lane...

Example, there are street lights in the median, but they are far from the crosswalk. Why not have one on edge of crossing, or even a "flashing yellow light" activated by the pedestrian that activates when she is crossing? The design of the road there is inviting accidents.


----------



## makaveli6

I can add that, when I was in Poland last year, I got almot ran over by five cars (on pedestrian crossing ofcourse) in two days. This problem almsot dosent exist in Latvia anymore, thats the reason why I walked on the crossings so freely.


----------



## Proterra

ka__zet said:


> Nope, speeding twice the limit (or more) through residential roads, notorious driving through red signals and pretty much complete disregard to pedestrians and cyclist are _not_ due to inadequate roads.


I commute daily from Nowy Targ to Zabierzów. This is about 100 kilometres one way, drive to work around 5 am and go back after I'm finished at 3 pm. The first forty kilometres until the motorway starts it's single-carriageway droga krajowa, and yes, at five in the morning I often do double the speed limit through Klikuszowa and Skomielna Biała if the weather (visibility) and road conditions allow it. And I'm not the only one who does that on that time. On the way back, however, nobody drives more than 10 or 20 kilometres over through those towns because there are people on the sidewalks and lots of things that can cause a hazard...



ka__zet said:


> They also do not expect that anybody will yield to them, or that they will be safe on road crossing with green llight. This is not an optimal situation, to say the least :banana:


Yes, they do. How often I've seen people in villages crossing the roads, even not on zebra's, without paying the slightest attention to traffice is unbelievable. Really, the only places where people in general are scared of crossing even on a zebra are cities such as Warszawa. Even in Kraków pedestrians take the right of way. (_Don't get me wrong, pedestrians *have* the right of way on a zebra, and I always stop for a zebra if it appears someone might want to cross it_) - it's just not any behaviour that fits "scared of crossing".



ka__zet said:


> "Late yellow" is red. Maybe it's not more than in US or Canada, but it is certainly more than in Western Europe.


Good to hear that you don't consider Germany to be part of Western Europe, because there it's even in the law that penalties for crossing on "late yellow" means getting a slap on the wrist, while crossing on "dark red" means getting the book thrown at you if they catch you doing it...



Kanadzie said:


> This is dangerous crossing design though. Nobody wants to run over old lady, but the area is very dark and so is her clothes. Stopped car should be obvious indication, but it's on the right lane...


I think this is actually the number one cause of accidents - people on villages walking alongside dark roads wearing dark clothes, or unlit cyclists on dark roads which you see far to late. *I never really speed on unlit roads between nightfall and 1 or 2 am for exactly that reason*, and even then I've had at least three incidents where someone was centimetres away from ending up on my hood with 60 or 80 km/h... Statistics seem to agree with this as well: heavily urbanized voivodeships such as Śląsk don't have death rates much higher than Western Europe, while rural voivodeships seem to be leading the pack at traffic deaths per 100 000 inhabitants.


----------



## Blaskovitz

Accidents

1991: ~54 000
2011: 40 065
2012: 37 046 
2013: 35 385

Killed

1991: ~8 000
2011: 4 189
2012: 3 571
2013: 3 291

Injuried:

2011: 49 501
2012: 45 792
2013: 43 471

Drunk drivers

2011: ~183 500
2012: ~171 000
2012: ~162 000

Road Controls:

2010: 2,1 mln
2012: 7,4 mln
2013: 8,9 mln


----------



## mcarling

^^
The statistics have been improving because of the opening of new motorways and expressways.


----------



## John Maynard

ChrisZwolle said:


> Poland has the third highest rate though (2012), after Lithuania and Romania. Greece used to be worse, but is now slightly better, perhaps due to reduced traffic volumes, in 2010 Greece had the worst traffic safety in the EU.


^^ Thank you (for 2012 statistics). Mine were from 2011, and Poland was leading then in road fatalities, as you can see here: http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/pdf/gis/mapcare_fatal_2011.pdf

By the way, last statistics doesn't shows a significant difference between these 3 countries - It's nearly the same. 
Still, PL has almost double the European average. In fact, you get more fatalities on Polish roads than in Germany - a country which has 2,5X more population and cars, is twice as densely populated.


----------



## John Maynard

asahi said:


> That is a huge exaggeration. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but saying it's "commonly accepted" isn't true at all.


I don't think so, based on my personal experience of driving in Poland, and after talking with friends. By the way, the best thing to do is to have an overview from one's own perspective: go to any village along a DK, (but, also) DW road and you would notice that nobody is respecting the speed limit :bash:. If there is fewer traffic, you could even see vehicles overspeeding at more than 100km/h. Same in cities. Patently, I've seen many truck drivers not even slowing down when passing through agglomerations hno:. Posted speed limits are only an option in Poland. So yes, it is IMHO, unfortunately, a widely spread practice.



asahi said:


> It is going to stop when more motorways and express way are built. It's as simple as that. Maybe not completely, but the scale will be much smaller.


Maybe, you might be right. However, I've found an article (three years old, but still actual) which blames the Poles "resisting rules" mentality, added with more powerful cars since 1989, as well the lack of enforcement: http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/poland/100921/poland-road-deaths-highway-safety.


asahi said:


> At some point in the past someone decided it's ok for villages and towns to be built along the national roads.


Many main roads were built on old coach/postal roads, or roman roads which passed through towns and villages. Later on, with increase of motorized traffic, bypasses were possibly built.


asahi said:


> However, until travelling around takes waaay too much time than it should, people will be speeding. It's stupid, but time is money and no one wants to spend that time on the road.
> To give you an example, on Friday afternoon a trip from Poznań to Wrocław (around 180 km) takes 3~3.5h. These are two biggest cities in Western Poland with sh*tload of people travelling between them.


I think, that in Poland road construction should be top priority by now. I can't understand, why many new urgent highways were cut from initial plans by government, as per example, S10 or S7, or delayed after 2020?


----------



## Kemo

John Maynard said:


> I think, that in Poland road construction should be top priority by now. I can't understand, why many new urgent highways were cut from initial plans by government, as per example, S10 or S7, or delayed after 2020?


Because even in Poland we don't have an endless sack of money 

Actually S7 seems to be one of the top priorities until 2020.


----------



## and802

John Maynard said:


> .... driving at more than 100 km/h through villages or cities is just commonly accepted and widespread, completely ignoring the danger posed to pedestrians, children, old persons and other road users. ...




you are not from Poland, are you ? but you say it is *commonly accepted*. how do you know ? only Poles can say that or people who live there. definately not you.

you see, I am from Poland and I can assure it is not commonly accepted. 

*please think again before you post anything like that*

I am not going to say that your post is a complete crap, but use correct meaning otherwords we all loose the subject of this thread, proving one another that black is back and white is white


----------



## asahi

John Maynard said:


> I think, that in Poland road construction should be top priority by now. I can't understand, why many new urgent highways were cut from initial plans by government, as per example, S10 or S7, or delayed after 2020?


It actually IS a top priority. It's true some projects were postponed. But is it really so hard to understand why? It's all about the money. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that. Poland's not Norway. In fact, even in Norway - a super rich country, the infrastructure kinda sucks. 



John Maynard said:


> you would notice that nobody is respecting the speed limit


Only in the past 4 weeks I drove around 4000 km around the country. And I can assure you what you're saying is not true. I'm not saying everybody respects the speed limit, but it's not that nobody does it either. 

No offence, but I get the impression you don't really have that much experience in driving in Poland. You obviously did, noticed all the stupidity on the roads that, I admit, is present. But you generalise too much and you tend not to see the whole picture. 

To sum up: the situation is not perfect. There are many assholes on the roads and the statistics show it's worse than the European average. 
However, the statistics also show that it's getting better. Much better than how it used to be in the past. It's a positive trend and once a proper motorway/express way network is finished it should get even better. 
Complaining and expecting the situation to change immediately is stupid though. It takes years. Same as road construction. So let's wait few more years and see how it goes. I'm pretty sure there will be less accidents.

Another important thing to remember is that in the past 10 years the number of cars has increased a lot while the number of accidents was decreasing. Very positive thing imo.


----------



## Fane40

John Maynard said:


> ^^ Thank you (for 2012 statistics). Mine were from 2011, and Poland was leading then in road fatalities, as you can see here: http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/pdf/gis/mapcare_fatal_2011.pdf
> 
> By the way, last statistics doesn't shows a significant difference between these 3 countries - It's nearly the same.
> Still, PL has almost double the European average. In fact, you get more fatalities on Polish roads than in Germany - a country which has 2,5X more population and cars, is twice as densely populated.


I've never driven in Poland so I cannot allow myself to judge how Polish drive.
But I'm sure accidents will drop when new expressways or highways will open, roundabouts will replace dangerous intersections, speed cameras everywhere (unfortunately), repressive drunk checking, expensive fines for aynything, etc....like in France for 15 years.
Same conclusion for any country.
Some differences will continue to exist.
When I see the map, I'm not surprised by the difference between Portugal and Spain, even if they are neighbours.
I think Spain more ... civilized, or with a better driving school. Sorry for P.
But I don't understand why Finland has a high fatality rate compared to scandinavian countries. Maybe because they have a russian inluence ?
When I read this forum, Estonia has no highways and has a best result on the road contrarily to Lithuania which has this kind of safety roads but with a bad result.
If someone can explain.


----------



## Fane40

I discovered today this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79qwkq9XF7E

I'm also not surprised by the high fatality on polish roads.

Some of them are completely dangerous and unconscious.


----------



## John Maynard

Kemo said:


> Because even in Poland we don't have an endless sack of money
> 
> Actually S7 seems to be one of the top priorities until 2020.


Full S7, from Nowy Targ to Gdansk?


----------



## Kemo

Fane40 said:


> I discovered today this video:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79qwkq9XF7E
> 
> I'm also not surprised by the high fatality on polish roads.
> 
> Some of them are completely dangerous and unconscious.


That happens on Polish roads, but this is caused by crazy truck drivers from the Baltic states. Especially on route 61.



John Maynard said:


> Full S7, from Nowy Targ to Gdansk?


From Kraków to Gdańsk. Nobody seems to have an idea where should possible new S7 Kraków- Myślenice be located.


----------



## Dantiscum

John Maynard said:


> I don't think so, based on my personal experience of driving in Poland, and after talking with friends. By the way, the best thing to do is to have an overview from one's own perspective: go to any village along a DK, (but, also) DW road and you would notice that *nobody* is respecting the speed limit :bash:. If there is fewer traffic, you could even see vehicles overspeeding at more than 100km/h. Same in cities. Patently, I've seen many truck drivers not even slowing down when passing through agglomerations hno:. Posted speed limits are only an option in Poland. So yes, it is IMHO, unfortunately, a widely spread practice.


WTF?
I like it so much, when someone uses words like *nobody*. That makes his statement so very "reliable"... Yes, of course, noone is respecting the speed limit. You were in Poland by car and managed to survive? It's a miracle, you should thank the Matka Boska Częstochowska, she's something Poles care about for sure, unlike the speed limits I guess.

As I said, you exaggerate very very much. If your words would be true, Poles would have extincted long time ago because of traffic accidents. And don't say one more time, that speeding in towns, cities and villages is *commonly accepted*. No person from my family or friend's circle accepts such thing, so as a Pole I can assure you, that it is not.


----------



## rakcancer

^^I have to agree. Simply because you live in your country it doesn't mean you are the only expert and you are the only allowed to have an opinion on the subject. I lived for long time both in Poland and outside of Poland in different countries in Europe, Australia and North America and I have to tell you that before I left Poland I wasn't aware how badly and recklessly Poles drive. Why? Because I couldn't compare driving in Poland to driving in other countries. I was 100% sure I am an excellent driver.... till I moved abroad. My perception of driving and me as a driver changed drastically. I learned that there is no needs to be so aggressive on road (even though I was always convinced that I am very easy going guy), that better is to obey rules and not to think each time if that makes sense or not, that driving is simply getting from point A to point B instead of constant racing others....So, if you have been living in one country forever and have no clue how is anywhere else you will never have a chance to compare and it doesn't help you to find it out just by reading statistics or watching news on TV.


----------



## ionutz_08

hallo.I have a question.
how many km of motorways and expressways have been built with Eu fonds in poland?
sorry if the question is maybe a little bit childish or stupid or whatever.
thank u very much


----------



## MonteChristo

Number of registered cars is not included. Poland already has more cars per capita than Netherlands (AFAIK). In 1991 roads were empty-when comapred to what we have today.



Blaskovitz said:


> Accidents
> 
> 1991: ~54 000
> 2011: 40 065
> 2012: 37 046
> 2013: 35 385
> 
> Killed
> 
> 1991: ~8 000
> 2011: 4 189
> 2012: 3 571
> 2013: 3 291
> 
> Injuried:
> 
> 2011: 49 501
> 2012: 45 792
> 2013: 43 471
> 
> Drunk drivers
> 
> 2011: ~183 500
> 2012: ~171 000
> 2012: ~162 000
> 
> Road Controls:
> 
> 2010: 2,1 mln
> 2012: 7,4 mln
> 2013: 8,9 mln


----------



## MonteChristo

ionutz_08 said:


> hallo.I have a question.
> how many km of motorways and expressways have been built with Eu fonds in poland?
> sorry if the question is maybe a little bit childish or stupid or whatever.
> thank u very much


Poland entered EU in 2004 (I think not all of them were built with EU funds)

red-U/C
green-in use










Poland will have about 7500km of motorways and expressways.


----------



## Haveblue

... in the past in this topic you mean  ...

... this conversation comes back over and over again. Why? - I do not know.


----------



## mcarling

Might we please return to questions of infrastructure?


----------



## and802

ionutz_08 said:


> hallo.I have a question.
> how many km of motorways and expressways have been built with Eu fonds in poland?
> sorry if the question is maybe a little bit childish or stupid or whatever.
> thank u very much


the link below does not answer your qestion directly, but give you at least overview what has been built... (in Polish - but not a big deal to understand it)
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1142261


----------



## MonteChristo

Hope that it's not a repost. Polish motorways-last 10 years.


----------



## Kemo

Was posted here twice, originally by the author :baeh3:


----------



## MonteChristo

It's good to see that again :cheers:


----------



## eeee.

John Maynard said:


> Very nice constructions. But, driving in Poland is still very unpleasant compared to Western Europe, not only for its still mainly bad road network, but also for its very aggressive, selfish drivers which are nothing more than public dangers on wheels. Already this week, a drunken driver hit and killed 6 pedestrians along with children for New Year's Eve. It is very sad to notice that PL has the worst death toll on roads in UE. As an example, driving at more than 100 km/h through villages or cities is just commonly accepted and widespread, completely ignoring the danger posed to pedestrians, children, old persons and other road users. Also, try to respect the speed limit and you always get drivers self proclaimed to "punish" you, by making fishtails or crushing the brakes after overtaking you, along other bad things, even if you are already going too fast for the road conditions. As a matter of fact, if Poles were to behave that way in Switzerland, most of them would already have lost their driver's license; but in Poland, it's considered as an extreme derogation, even if well deserved and justified. And dangerous drivers are always on the roads again. When this madness is going to stop?


First time I drove in Poland in 2010, crossing the country from Lithuania to Czech Rep. I have seen six accidents in only four days and felt very uncomfortable on the roads. The cars behind tailgated me constantly.

Last week I drove on A4 from Czech Rep. to Ukraine and back to Slovakia. Can't remember one unpleasant situation. Due to the lower traffic density it's even more enjoyable than in Germany, Austria or even Switzerland. The problem back then was obviously just the lack of highways. People are always stressed on one-lane-long-distant-roads (don't know if there's a technical term for it). They risk horrible overtaking manoeuvres just to save 5 minutes in 500 km, how you can see it today in Ukraine between Lviv and Rivne.

Only bad thing was the quality of the road markings off the highway. In the night I could hardly see the lane. Also almost no reflectors at the side.


----------



## arct

You had to have REALY bad luck to see 6 accidents in 4 days. Through whole my life I've seen maybe 1 accident of german van, where driver hit a tree becouse he felt asleep while traveling.


----------



## dexter2

If you came from Lithiania, thats actually understandable that you've seen so many accidents: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=litewscy+kierowcy+tirów
The search is 'Lithuanian tir drivers'...


----------



## Kanadzie

dexter2 said:


> If you came from Lithiania, thats actually understandable that you've seen so many accidents: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=litewscy+kierowcy+tirów
> The search is 'Lithuanian tir drivers'...


I cannot help but find it most amusing that you search "lithuanian tir drivers" in _jenzyk polski_ :lol:


----------



## MonteChristo

eeee. said:


> Last week I drove on A4 from Czech Rep. to Ukraine and back to Slovakia. Can't remember one unpleasant situation. Due to the lower traffic density it's even more enjoyable than in Germany, Austria or even Switzerland. The problem back then was obviously just the lack of highways. People are always stressed on one-lane-long-distant-roads (don't know if there's a technical term for it). They risk horrible overtaking manoeuvres just to save 5 minutes in 500 km, how you can see it today in Ukraine between Lviv and Rivne.
> 
> Only bad thing was the quality of the road markings off the highway. In the night I could hardly see the lane. Also almost no reflectors at the side.


Well, I agee. I was often traveling on E40 around Krakow. It was dangerous especially on the Krakow-Tarnow part. Now driving is comfortable and much faster. There is also big improvement with the local roads.

(In)Famous Łapczyca on the E40 between Kraków and Tarnów

this is how it looked more than 1 year ago-E40



















and now ( soon all the way to Ukraine)-A4



Just turn on the music:smug:


----------



## mcarling

MonteChristo said:


> how it looked more than 1 year ago-E40
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and now ( soon all the way to Ukraine)-A4


This is the main reason why road fatality statistics are down in Poland. The upgrade from single carriageways to dual carriageways has the biggest effect, followed by newer, safer cars in second place, then police controls, driver education, etc., although the latter do help a bit too. Among the various types of police controls, the controls on drink driving a have a much bigger effect than the controls on speed.


----------



## MonteChristo

^^yep (BTW motorways in Poland are always brand new-it was built from scratch. Both roads exist)


----------



## Niemiec w Polsce

Well, after living here in Poland for almost 4 years I can share following.

General behavior
People are mostly very kind to each other, they let you through, let you pass, etc.
Most of the Polish drivers are quite good. They drive fluent and without hesitations (especially at traffic lights they don’t waste a second which I really like) and have fast reactions skills. And another very positive point is that they use the turn signal ALWAYS in each situation, even if they are backing out from a parking spot.
But I had to notice that there’s also a decent number of very bad drivers which are making major mistakes which I rarely see in the western countries. These kind of drivers normally take it very slow making other drivers nervous. Driving 50 outside the city, or also taking a maximum of 70 on the highway (also very dangerous).
Pedestrians sometimes seem not to like their lives very much. Regularly I can observe how they do not wait for cars backing out of parking spots but just “jump” behind the car, expecting the driver to notice them last-second and hit the brakes, sometimes crossing the road without looking left or right at all. Walking in the middle of the road with small kids. Drunk heads jumping for fun in front of cars and making them stop on major roads. These things you can very rarely/never observe in other countries.

Speeding and fines
Yes, driving a couple of 100km cross-country combined with a lot of traffic, never-ending villages and slow drivers make a lot of people impatient and this is understandable. On the other hand I can see a lot of local drivers driving through the city to work or for shopping exceeding speed limits massively.
Speed controls are frequently and more than in most other countries. But the fines are actually ridiculous. You can get 500 Zloty (120 Euro) fine as maximum and 10 points. 24 points is the maximum when you get the license revoked. Points are deleted already after one year, allowing you to get caught with major misbehavior two times a year without severe consequences. For comparison: Exceeding the speed in a city massively you pay 500 zl (roughly 8-10% of an average salary) and get 10 points in Poland. In Germany you will pay at least 700 Euro (a third of an average salary), 4 points (after 8 it will be revoked, and points stay for at least 2,5 years up to 10 years) and you will lose you driver license instantly for 3 months. As I know in most other countries consequences are even more severe.

Tailgating
For now driving on the highway in Poland is a dream. Brand new roads combined with low and calm traffic is just perfect. People are kind and do not pull on the left lane last-second making faster cars hitting the brakes. They stay right and use almost every gap to go back on the right and not stay on the left forever. But noticing a lot of unnecessary extreme tailgating. As for now traffic volume is low it is not really a safety issue but I can imagine with higher traffic density rear-end crashes will become more regular. Tailgating doesn’t seem to be punished by the police.

Summary
Highways and expressways are helping a lot to insure safe traffic. People drive less nervously and a lot of dangerous situations are avoided. I have observed less and less crazy actions on the road throughout the last years. General understanding that wrong driving/speeding is killing people should be more communicated. Most people see it still as something normal and legal. Fines and punishment system has to be re-defined (unfortunately politicians seem to be afraid to take such unpopular decisions).


----------



## xelius_autobahn

Niemiec w Polsce said:


> you pay 500 zl (roughly 8-10% of an average salary)


5000zl average salary? It would be good. Unfortunately, average Pole earns 2000-4000zl.


----------



## Fane40

xelius_autobahn said:


> 5000zl average salary? It would be good. Unfortunately, average Pole earns 2000-4000zl.


 2000-4000 ? = 3000 to me 

So, what is the truth ? 
Be in agreement.


----------



## Japinta

average net salary is 2700 PLN


----------



## rakcancer

3 649 PLN 
source:
http://www.wynagrodzenia.pl/dane_gus.php
Nett salary doesn't make sense since everyone pays different taxes.


----------



## Beck's

Average net wage is around 2700 zł.

Median net wage is around 2200 zł.

Minimum net wage is around 1200 zł.

EOT


----------



## Niemiec w Polsce

Well, I took a well payed average job based on a master degree (for these jobs i know more or less the incomes) and compared it with a similar job in Germany. I don't know if they count into the statistics part-time jobbers, retired people and unemployed people and black working people???

Nevertheless, the point is: Compared to a monthly income, in Poland you pay much lower fines than in most other European countries (especially western ones).


----------



## MonteChristo

It will probably change soon. Government started war against speeding, drunk drivers.

Yesterday Prime minister Tusk proposed fines for drunk drivers. Minimal fine-1000 euro. And fines will be up to 25 000 euro.


----------



## mcarling

MonteChristo said:


> It will probably change soon. Government started war against speeding, drunk drivers.
> 
> Yesterday Prime minister Tusk proposed fines for drunk drivers. Minimal fine-1000 euro. And fines will be up to 25 000 euro.


In my opinion, the penalty for drink driving should be confiscation of the vehicle. That would be fair and, hopefully, effective.


----------



## Dantiscum

To be exact the Pm announced the following:
-after first time beeing caught driving drunk (over 0,5 ‰): minimum 1200 euro fine, name of the driver will be published, sunspension of the driving license from 3 to 15 years,
- after second time: minimum 2400 euro fine, sunspension of the driving license from 5 to 15 years,
- by repeating cases also a jail sentence without suspension,
- breathalyser as an obligatory equipment of every vehicle,
- driving without driving license will be crime (if you don't have it at all of course, not if you just leave it at home),


----------



## POLAMCO

mcarling said:


> In my opinion, the penalty for drink driving should be confiscation of the vehicle. That would be fair and, hopefully, effective.


Stealing a car by anyone can't be accaptable. Think about drunk driver's family too. 
EOT, let's back to the topic.


----------



## Niemiec w Polsce

Drinking and driving is not the major reason for road deaths. As far as I know it's around 10%. And it is generally not accepted by the people and not many are doing it. Therefore I can understand that this decision of politicians is rather a popular decision.
Major reason for road deaths is speeding and as written before it is generally accepted by a lot of people. Increasing fines here is rather an unpopular decision. I heard some while ago that they wanted to introduce "revoking license instantly after double speeding" but haven't heard of it ever since.


----------



## Kanadzie

Niemiec w Polsce said:


> Drinking and driving is not the major reason for road deaths. As far as I know it's around 10%. And it is generally not accepted by the people and not many are doing it. Therefore I can understand that this decision of politicians is rather a popular decision.
> Major reason for road deaths is speeding and as written before it is generally accepted by a lot of people. Increasing fines here is rather an unpopular decision. I heard some while ago that they wanted to introduce "revoking license instantly after double speeding" but haven't heard of it ever since.


Is speed in excess of sign number a major issue for deaths? Usually the fastest drivers are safest (statistically safest speed is 85th - 95th percentile range) and the German experience would suggest it irrelevant.


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## arct

Kanadzie said:


> Is speed in excess of sign number a major issue for deaths? Usually the fastest drivers are safest (statistically safest speed is 85th - 95th percentile range) and the German experience would suggest it irrelevant.


LOL? where did you find these stats?


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## Kanadzie

arct said:


> LOL? where did you find these stats?


This is from famous study by Solomon, et al in 1964, but same trend has been shown in other studies on same subject. In general as result speed limit if necessary is recommended at 85th percentile round up to nearest 10 km/h. It is well-documented phenomenon, at least in North America (but the government frequently ignores and sets limit by fiat!)

I had issues finding study in particular but here is some reference to it in a book - http://books.google.ca/books?id=Z_w...#v=onepage&q=solomon speed percentile&f=false

Here are some other good references:
http://www.motorists.org/speed-limits/studies


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## sponge_bob

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_curve

Most roads in Poland are crap, you can shift the curve left ( = WAY down) for those ones.

The actual 'peak accident' figure is dynamic and is more reflective of how to set _*Minimum*_ speeds on 2x2 roads than speed per se. 

It proves that slow drivers on 120kph roads are dangerous, it also proves that faster ( but still relatively slow) drivers on 130kph roads are equally dangerous.


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## Kanadzie

I am not sure... remember most of Solomon's work was on 1x1 standard highways with 1950's cars, 1950's tyres in the US, probably standard of roads was competitive (in design, if not pavement quality) with PL DK-roads and the better cars maybe mean we can shift right


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## arct

:bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
*BULSHIT.*Polish roads are not f#*('in crap. About 80% of them are in good condition. Only local roads are worse. But saying that polish roads are crap is #&!(*^ stereotype. As well as hundreds of others acording to Poland and Poles.


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## Kanadzie

You have a valid point. Especially on the recent autostrady, I am not sure if I ever experienced such nice roads (but... they are new) anywhere, much better than Germany.

I did have fun once, trying to drive from Poznan to let's say Lubin, or Legnica. So OK I make to Leszno on DK5 / S5. Then DW road. Nice road, no problem, then, massive bridge, wide lanes, shiny lines, sidewalks made of beautiful bricks, in middle of nowhere, bridge even had a weather station. Getting to end of bridge, there is sign "road narrows", lines disappear, and road becomes narrow so much I wonder if I will break car mirrors on the trees on either side  And the car was only Astra!

But, hardly any traffic on road (if there was, would almost need to stop), and experience was very pleasurable. But it really showed the difference between "Nowa Polska" and the old days.

There are a lot of DK roads just overloaded with traffic, but so many roads are in construction, there isn't much that can be done better. But if you want to go from say Zgorzelec to say Sandomierz via Krakow, it seems like the trip to Krakow takes some minutes (via A4) and then to Sandomierz via 79, 3 hours... in a way possibly true, as you drive 200 km/h to Krakow and then 50 km/h the rest...


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## sponge_bob

arct said:


> :bash: :bash: :bash:
> *BULSHIT.*Polish roads are not f#*('in crap. About 80% of them are in good condition. Only local roads are worse.:bash: :bash: :bash: But saying that polish roads are crap is #&!(*^ stereotype. :bash: :bash: :bash: As well as hundreds of others acording to Poland and Poles:bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: v.


Most Polish roads ARE local roads. Umm and :bash: :bash: :bash: 

Most German French etc roads are local roads too and :bash: :bash: :bash: and another :bash: :bash: :bash: 

They are not suitable for continual 80kph+ speeds whatever :bash: :bash: :bash: country :bash: :bash: :bash: they is in. :bash: :bash: :bash: 

OK


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## arct

Local means= REALY REALY local. Not vovoidian (DW) roads. Do you understand now? And how many times, when and where you've been to Poland?


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## Rusonaldo

Highways A1 Toruń - Włocławek






Expressway S8 - Syców - Wieluń


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## MonteChristo

New bridge in Rzeszów (Wisłok river) will be build by Bilfinger.


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## Beck's

sponge_bob said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_curve
> 
> Most roads in Poland are crap, you can shift the curve left ( = WAY down) for those ones.
> 
> The actual 'peak accident' figure is dynamic and is more reflective of how to set _*Minimum*_ speeds on 2x2 roads than speed per se.
> 
> It proves that slow drivers on 120kph roads are dangerous, it also proves that faster ( but still relatively slow) drivers on 130kph roads are equally dangerous.


That depends. Motorways and expressways are in very good condition, national ones (DK) are mostly good, voivodenship ones (DW) are mostly decent and local ones are crap indeed. Beside this we can observe a big progress since we became a European union member and comparing to the rest of postcommunism countries they are not bad.


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## sponge_bob

Beck's said:


> That depends. Motorways and expressways are in very good condition, national ones (DK) are mostly good, voivodenship ones (DW) are mostly decent and local ones are crap indeed. Beside this we can observe a big progress since we became a European union member and comparing to the rest of postcommunism countries they are not bad.


Indeed, but as there are 5 times more Gmina (Local) roads in Poland than National Roads/Motorways/Expressways/ Voivodenship roads _combined_ my point ( again) is that a minimum speed approach derived from a Solomon Curve_ is not appropriate for most roads_ . Hard limits must be used for maximum speeds instead.

The Solomon Curve gives a principle by which a minimum speed of 60km on a Motorway and 50-60km on a 2+2 Expressway should be enforced as the slower cars make the roads dangerous for most users of those roads.

In fact there should be a minimum speed of 80kph in the middle lane of a Polish 3+3 Motorway and a minimum speed of 100kph in the fast lane, such is the generally ultra high quality of those roads bar the as yes unrebuilt Autobahn bits west of Wroclaw.


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## Niemiec w Polsce

I guess the point has been completely mistaken. Exceeding speed is a major reason for deadly accidents in all countries. Consequences are loosing control of the vehicle, no time/space for reacting/avoiding accidents, higher injury rates especially for pedestrians and bicyle-drivers, miscalculting speed of approaching vehicles, and many more. Sorry, but driving 100+ in a city (and this is quiet common) doesn't seem anything than safe to me. Actually 10 km/h difference can make huge differences for all traffic participants in critical situations.
On the other side, seeing people driving much slower is of course as well dangerous due to the fact that they provoke risky overtaking and lead to misjudging speed and akkordeon effects (first one brakes a little hard, second harder, third harder and so on).
Additionally I can observe a lot of ridicilous speed limits in Poland. How can you put in the middle of highway a speed limit of 40km/h. Or Stryków interchange. This was build with a turbine design which should allow higher curve speeds. And what? They have put there 60km/h signs :nuts:


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## Superkot634

arct said:


> :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
> *BULSHIT.*Polish roads are not f#*('in crap. About 80% of them are in good condition. Only local roads are worse. But saying that polish roads are crap is #&!(*^ stereotype. As well as hundreds of others acording to Poland and Poles.












http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1310317

On the map i can't see 80% in good condition ... In addition, most of the roads in Poland it local roads, and these really are terrible. Motorways and expressways in Poland are in excellent condition. The rest of the roads, firmly sticks out. So do not be angry.


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## Beck's

^^That's true but national roads (DK) support around 60% of domestic traffic so despite the fact being the minority in Polish roads they are (aprat from the highways/expressways) the most important roads in Poland.


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## ChrisZwolle

Yes, people tend to drive short distances on minor roads. You usually don't drive 100 km on some DW-road.


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## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yes, people tend to drive short distances on minor roads. You usually don't drive 100 km on some DW-road.


Some people prefer DW because of much lower traffic volume than on parallel DK's.


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## Kanadzie

sponge_bob said:


> Indeed, but as there are 5 times more Gmina (Local) roads in Poland than National Roads/Motorways/Expressways/ Voivodenship roads _combined_ my point ( again) is that a minimum speed approach derived from a Solomon Curve_ is not appropriate for most roads_ . Hard limits must be used for maximum speeds instead.
> 
> The Solomon Curve gives a principle by which a minimum speed of 60km on a Motorway and 50-60km on a 2+2 Expressway should be enforced as the slower cars make the roads dangerous for most users of those roads.
> 
> In fact there should be a minimum speed of 80kph in the middle lane of a Polish 3+3 Motorway and a minimum speed of 100kph in the fast lane, such is the generally ultra high quality of those roads bar the as yes unrebuilt Autobahn bits west of Wroclaw.


Why would road design or condition affect solomon-type speed? In any event the speed distribution is still there. On a perfect 2-lane highway the 85th percentile might be 120, and on a crap road, it might be 75. That doesn't make the methodology wrong.

Even so, what you suggest is to make limit that is not followed, which is not too logical. With 85th percentile round up, and police ignoring excess of 10 or 20 km/h (trivial), drivers who risk ticket would be in the dangerous side of the speed distribution.

In any event, considering the safety of driving, where accidents are rare to individuals, it should be self-evident that vast majority of drivers are competent and thereby competent enough to decide appropriate speed, which they do.

Unrebuilt A4 west of Wroclaw seems fine enough save the brak in the awarjnego


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## sponge_bob

Someone travelling at 130kph and encountering a 50kph in front of them on a motorway has to slow down by 80kph and quick ( and everyone behind them) . If you force the car in front to travel faster then the relative speed gap is lower ...and less dangerous.

Motorway minimum speeds are generally set to low for modern cars in Europe. Even a 1 litre Yaris with 4 people in it can manage a steady 100kph ....not like the 1960s when it was a Citroen 2cv and could probably manage 80kph downhill with a wind following its ass and 50kph uphill.

Dammit a 1.6 litre Polski Fiat could hardly manage 100kph if I remember those tanks correctly


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## Kanadzie

But on motorway the real issue is the trucks, one going 91 km/h passing other at 89 km/h because of EU limiter regulation (=idiotic)

You travel at 200 km/h even and then need to slow fast, then wait, then accelerate again. Except most people in EU have cars with no power and it takes so long to get back the speed  I missed my V8 so much... however, the speed differential was huge but seemed a non-issue, just slow with brakes.


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## Halfpipesaur

sponge_bob said:


> Dammit a 1.6 litre Polski Fiat could hardly manage 100kph if I remember those tanks correctly


It's 0.6 litre  with furious 22HP.


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## MonteChristo

Kanadzie said:


> But on motorway the real issue is the trucks, one going 91 km/h passing other at 89 km/h because of EU limiter regulation (=idiotic)
> 
> You travel at 200 km/h even and then need to slow fast, then wait, then accelerate again. Except most people in EU have cars with no power and it takes so long to get back the speed  I missed my V8 so much... however, the speed differential was huge but seemed a non-issue, just slow with brakes.


Yes-trucks overtaking each other are dangerous. For me it shoud be forbidden for trucks to overtake. They are creating dangerous situation-and when they finally manage to overtake (which takes centuries for them) they go only slightly faster. There is no logic in it for me.


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## mcarling

MonteChristo said:


> Yes-trucks overtaking each other are dangerous. For me it shoud be forbidden for trucks to overtake. They are creating dangerous situation-and when they finally manage to overtake (which takes centuries for them) they go only slight faster. There is no logic for me.


In my opinion, trucks should never be allowed to overtake each other on 2x2 or smaller roads. When there are three or more lanes, trucks should be permitted to overtake only in the second slowest lane.


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## jwojcie

MonteChristo said:


> New bridge in Rzeszów (Wisłok river) will be build by Bilfinger.


Like a twin of a bridge on AOW.


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## Deadeye Reloaded

^^
Great! Always nice to read that a German company wins a construction tender in Poland (or somewhere else in the EU). kay:
That way German EU-money comes back to Germany, German companies have a lot of work and Poland gets new high-class infrastructure nearly for free. :uh:

A win-win situation! :yes:


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## Kanadzie

But truck needs to pass, in case of too-slow traffic... but because of limiter, can't pass very well. Why not just get rid of EU-limiter?

Where I live I never noticed the problem until the government forced trucks to fit limiter (at 105 km/h) and since I get stuck behind, once, I spent 20 minutes stuck behind one and next to the other.


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## mcarling

Kanadzie said:


> But truck needs to pass, in case of too-slow traffic...


No, trucks don't need to pass. Anything slower than a truck should not be on the motorway or expressway.


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## cinxxx

It happens on heavy rain for example. I drive slow in those conditions, maybe also lower then 80. I got overtaken by trucks in those conditions...


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## mcarling

cinxxx said:


> It happens on heavy rain for example. I drive slow in those conditions, maybe also lower then 80. I got overtaken by trucks in those conditions...


In rain, snow, or any other weather conditions, the safe speed for a truck is never higher than for a safe car. If a truck passes a car, either the car is too slow or the truck is too fast.


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## CMichu

Deadeye Reloaded said:


> ^^
> Great! Always nice to read that a German company wins a construction tender in Poland (or somewhere else in the EU). kay:
> That way German EU-money comes back to Germany, German companies have a lot of work and Poland gets new high-class infrastructure nearly for free. :uh:
> 
> A win-win situation! :yes:


For free ? You must be joking...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kanadzie said:


> But truck needs to pass, in case of too-slow traffic... but because of limiter, can't pass very well. Why not just get rid of EU-limiter?
> 
> Where I live I never noticed the problem until the government forced trucks to fit limiter (at 105 km/h) and since I get stuck behind, once, I spent 20 minutes stuck behind one and next to the other.


The flow of truck traffic in Europe is quite different than in North America. For instance, it's quite common in the U.S. to see trucks passing cars and even avoiding the right lane in urban areas. This is rather uncommon in Europe, where trucks are virtually always the slowest vehicles on the road (most countries limit trucks at 80 or 90 km/h) and stick to the rightmost lane except when briefly* passing others. 

* by briefly I mean that trucks move back to the right lane as soon as they passed the other truck, instead of continuing in one of the left lanes for some time to pass another vehicle further down the road.


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## Sunfuns

Beck's said:


> *Foreign capital has made us significantly richer country (and others such as Czech rep., Słovakia or Hungary) for the last 25 years because we were completely deprived own by communism.* Moreover number of company belonging to Polish owners exporting their products to western countries like Solaris (producer of buses and trams) is growing now. Apart from that some western companies locate increasingly in Poland also R&D centres, so I don't think is so bad.


I agree with that and Poland is doing better than most East European countries anyway. I just wanted to say that in order to catch Germany in incomes and living standards domestically owned industry with high added value will be needed. Ireland is a cautionary tale on what can happen with over reliance on foreign capital. It's not as risky in Poland due to large internal market, but still...


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## Beck's

Yeah, that's true, we need more own companies and I hope the number of them will be still growing.


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## Kanadzie

Sunfuns said:


> It wasn't better before, but you are fooling yourself if you think that the origin of corporate giants do not matter at all. To become a rich country (as opposed to just middle income like most of Eastern Europe) you need your own multinationals. I can't think of any exceptions for reasonably sized countries (>1 million inhabitants) which do not sit on an enormous patch of crude oil. The reason for that is that the highest paid jobs in management, design and R&D almost invariably stay in the original country + 1-2 locations elsewhere. Every rich Western or East Asian country has their own world leading companies.
> 
> I work for a large multinational. We produce in many places and sell virtually everywhere, but R&D and factories with the highest added value are in Switzerland, UK and USA. A little bit of R&D also in India and China due to their size.


You're looking at it backwards. You can only build a multinational corporation based in a particular area if you have major amounts of capital in that area. Wealth needs to come first! Otherwise... it doesn't happen.

But in the global economy, a multinational corporation will only be able to headquarter in an area with a favorable environment, foremost. Even huge American companies, like ebay, are incorporated as AG in Germany! (and offices, in USA) If a company has choice between paying 10% tax and 20% tax depending on where the incorporation is, he will never make the wrong choice...

There are many successful Polish companies, as long as the government can maintain stable and correct policies (hands-off) then they will grow. It is not important to have everything in PL made by Polish companies, which can only happen by trade barriers and reducing wealth and competitiveness of Polish economy. PL is a certain percentage of the global economy, so the ideal should be to have a certain percentage of everything in the world made by Polish companies. Germany has done that well, everyone knows and loves German cars for example (and Polish wodka!). But nobody in Germany wastes time to make cellular phones for example, others can do it better.


----------



## JanVL

Let's hope more and more Polish companies will appear on the list of 20 biggest in Central-Europe. 

Anyway, this discussion should take place in an economic topic. Nevertheless I myself think this is an interesting part of EU-funds that isn't known, or better, realised in the West. Go to a Dutch or Belgian, bah, German or English newspaper comment section - I know it is bad for your heart and you might lose your believe in common sense or the intelligent human being -, but you will always hear multiple comments: "Oh, those Poles take our jobs and we give them 100 billion Euro.", "They should shut up, we're paying them anyway." People should realise that many Western companies can grow as well and that the funds invested in Poland also come back to Western countries in some degree. 

Otherwise I myself am also aware of the importance of strong national brands and I hope that every new year will bring us stronger Polish companies. But, like f.e. Beck's said: we can be proud with companies like Solaris, whose buses are to be found in Berlin, Rome, Dubai and every bigger German city and many other places, or Pesa, which has signed a contract for 470 trains with the Deutsche Bahn, a historic moment for Polish industry. I believe in the potential of Polish companies. But the most important in all of this is that every Polish company will have excellent roads which it can use to conquer the European consumer market :cheers: .


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## Kemo

Oh, did the thread name change to *[PL] Economy* or something?


Some pictures from S3 motorway near Skwierzyna and Gorzów Wielkopolski:


ewojtas said:


>


And no, most of these pylons are NOT for acoustic screens.


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## [email protected]

What are they for in that case?


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## goral_kamil

I think it will be a fence.


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## toonczyk

Bats.


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## Kemo

Yes.


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## Richard_P

Deadeye Reloaded said:


> I wrote "nearly for free". How much does the EU pay for road construction projects in Poland? Around 70-80% of all costs? :dunno:


Yes EU co-financing can reach from 30 to 85% but in the same time You are forgetting that Poland also pays its due to EU budget. Estimates say that in 50% co-financing 25% is actually from Polish fees while rest is from other countries in which the biggest payer is Germany and on second place UK. The remaining states mostly take from EU what they pay not to mention countries which receive more. So for the local economy it isn't OK to let foreign companies do such contracts but thanks to EU and present Poland position it doesn't make big difference as "help" money are floating. But when Poland will reach status in which it will take from EU the same money as it pays it may hurt economy as partially happened in Spain.


----------



## rav00

mcarling said:


> You're joking, right? If a police officer says that you were hindering traffic at 40 km/h on a motorway or expressway, a judge that would find you innocent would be rarer than roses in Antarctica. The maximum speed of your vehicle has nothing at all to do with it. If just one other vehicle had to slow down because you were driving 40 km/h, you would have been hindering.


Let's sum it up:
- you can ride a motorcycle on a motorway - CHECK
- your motocycle if able to reach 40kph on flat surface - CHECK
- you're riding with your 6y/o in the back, to speed limit for you is 40kph EVERYWHERE - CHECK

I'd be surprised if someone got sentenced for driving 40kph in such situation, since it is to the letter of the law. You can't be hindering the traffic if you are legal to drive on a particular road and you're driving at maximum legal speed.

It is legal. It's just extremely unwise to do.


----------



## mcarling

rav00 said:


> You can't be hindering the traffic if you are legal to drive on a particular road and you're driving at maximum legal speed.


Absolutely false. If a single vehicle has to slow down (below the speed limit) for you, you're hindering. If a police officer writes you a citation for hindering at 40 km/h, a judge will convict you if you go to court. Nothing in the law says you have the right to carry a child younger than 7 on the back of a motorcycle on a motorway. The absence of an explicit prohibition against carrying a child younger than 7 on the back of a motorcycle on a motorway does not exempt anyone from the prohibition against hindering traffic.


----------



## Kanadzie

mcarling said:


> Absolutely false. If a single vehicle has to slow down (below the speed limit) for you, you're hindering. If a police officer writes you a citation for hindering at 40 km/h, a judge will convict you if you go to court. Nothing in the law says you have the right to carry a child younger than 7 on the back of a motorcycle on a motorway. The absence of an explicit prohibition against carrying a child younger than 7 on the back of a motorcycle on a motorway does not exempt anyone from the prohibition against hindering traffic.


I doubt it, the motorcycle would stay on right lane surely, leaving left lane for simple overtaking so no hindrance... while on DK road, limit 90, clearly is allowed to ride, and there hindrance may be real.

but also worthwhile to consider intelligence of people, has anyone ever actually done this? Normally we see only motorcycle with one rider at 240 km/h not 40


----------



## mcarling

Kanadzie said:


> I doubt it, the motorcycle would stay on right lane surely, leaving left lane for simple overtaking so no hindrance.


In light traffic, where no one has to slow below the speed limit as vehicles are passing, there would be no hinderance. As soon as anyone has to slow below the speed limit, for example in heavier traffic, it would be a hinderance.

Yes, let's hope no one would ever do this. If I were the police officer, I would cite the driver not only for hindering traffic but also for recklessly endangering the life of a child. I think my former students who are now judges would convict on both counts.


----------



## Kemo

mcarling said:


> If a single vehicle has to slow down (below the speed limit) for you, you're hindering.


I think this argument is invalid.
According to it you cannot drive tractors on DK's with 90 kph speed limit.


----------



## mcarling

Kemo said:


> I think this argument is invalid.
> According to it you cannot drive tractors on DK's with 90 kph speed limit.


As a practical matter, the police generally won't issue a citation because there usually are not good alternatives (short of putting the tractor on a truck). However, if the police were to issue a citation, I think a judge would have to convict.

Not every violation of the law is prosecuted. Unless it's changed recently, it's still a law that every taxi in London must carry hay (to feed the horses pulling the taxi). Obviously, the police in London do not issue tickets to taxi drivers for not having hay.


----------



## Kanadzie

mcarling said:


> In light traffic, where no one has to slow below the speed limit as vehicles are passing, there would be no hinderance. As soon as anyone has to slow below the speed limit, for example in heavier traffic, it would be a hinderance.
> 
> Yes, let's hope no one would ever do this. If I were the police officer, I would cite the driver not only for hindering traffic but also for recklessly endangering the life of a child. I think my former students who are now judges would convict on both counts.


It would seem simple legislative solution to just eliminate 40 km/h with dziecko law, then all would be fine...

I have to admit, I can't ever remember seeing a small child on a motorcycle ever, aside from pictures of poor countries where the whole family is somehow mounted on a "Hongda" or similar small motorcycle...


----------



## mcarling

Kanadzie said:


> I have to admit, I can't ever remember seeing a small child on a motorcycle ever, aside from pictures of poor countries where the whole family is somehow mounted on a "Hongda" or similar small motorcycle...


I teach in India once or twice a year, so I'm used to seeing families of five on small motorcycles. On urban motorways, the shoulder is used for traffic going the wrong way, which is often more backed up than the traffic going the right way, but people are saving half a cent in petrol by not crossing over to the correct side of the motorway. It's also not unusual to see cows on urban motorways. There is also a complete disregard for lanes. Also, no one ever checks their mirrors or use turn indicators; instead they honk to let everyone know they are about to do something. It's quite mad. Well, the one good thing is that they do stop for red lights. Compared to all that, what I see on Polish roads seems almost civilized.


----------



## rav00

mcarling said:


> Nothing in the law says you have the right to carry a child younger than 7 on the back of a motorcycle on a motorway.


Nothing says I can't do it, so I can.



mcarling said:


> The absence of an explicit prohibition against carrying a child younger than 7 on the back of a motorcycle on a motorway does not exempt anyone from the prohibition against hindering traffic.


That's just your wishful thinking.

Different types of vehicles have different speed limits on the same road (40/80/100/140). Just deal with it.


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## and802

mcarling said:


> I teach in India once or twice a year, so I'm used to seeing families of five on small motorcycles. On urban motorways, the shoulder is used for traffic going the wrong way, which is often more backed up than the traffic going the right way, but people are saving half a cent in petrol by not crossing over to the correct side of the motorway. It's also not unusual to see cows on urban motorways. There is also a complete disregard for lanes. Also, no one ever checks their mirrors or use turn indicators; instead they honk to let everyone know they are about to do something. It's quite mad. Well, the one good thing is that they do stop for red lights. Compared to all that, what I see on Polish roads seems almost civilized.


India...
very true
I used to live there in 90-ties
actually instead of right-turn indicators, an oridinary truck/bus driver used to put a palm out of a window. some of them were just putting out only fingers. still do not get it somebody could spot it


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## geogregor

mcarling said:


> In light traffic, where no one has to slow below the speed limit as vehicles are passing, there would be no hinderance. As soon as anyone has to slow below the speed limit, for example in heavier traffic, it would be a hinderance.
> 
> Yes, let's hope no one would ever do this. If I were the police officer, I would cite the driver not only for hindering traffic but also for recklessly endangering the life of a child. I think my former students who are now judges would convict on both counts.


I don't think you are right. First and foremost you should drive with a safe speed. Safe for the vehicle you driving and for the conditions you are driving in (rain, fog etc.). 
So, if it is a tractor, and you drive 30 kph on a 90 kph national road, there is absolutely no way you are going to get citation. Same if you drive, let say, historic car which is registered and allowed on public road, even if you can only drive it at 50 kph.

Same apply if the surface is wet and you slow down to let say 65 kph. There is no way you are going to get citation for slowing anyone down, even if others are still able (or stupid, depending how wet it is) to drive 90kph.

Nowhere in law stands that speed limit is a target speed.


----------



## mcarling

geogregor said:


> I don't think you are right. First and foremost you should drive with a safe speed. Safe for the vehicle you driving and for the conditions you are driving in (rain, fog etc.).
> So, if it is a tractor, and you drive 30 kph on a 90 kph national road, there is absolutely no way you are going to get citation. Same if you drive, let say, historic car which is registered and allowed on public road, even if you can only drive it at 50 kph.
> 
> Same apply if the surface is wet and you slow down to let say 65 kph. There is no way you are going to get citation for slowing anyone down, even if others are still able (or stupid, depending how wet it is) to drive 90kph.


Those are two very different cases. In my opinion, driving 30 km/h on a 90 km/h road (under dry and clear conditions) is inherently unsafe if there is enough traffic that other vehicles are forced to suddenly brake. In rain or snow, everyone needs to drive more slowly than in clear and dry conditions.

Again, there is no law which says that tractors have a right to drive on a DK road, nor is there a law prohibiting them from doing so. Therefore the operative laws which determine whether or not a tractor may use a DK road are the law to maintain a safe speed and the law not to hinder. The legal applicability of both would depend on traffic and other conditions at the time. If a police officer writes a tractor driver a ticket for unsafe speed of 30 km/h on a DK road and for hindering traffic, a judge will convict. Current policy seems to be not to write such tickets, but that could change on a whim.


----------



## ka__zet

mcarling said:


> Again, there is no law which says that tractors have a right to drive on a DK road, nor is there a law prohibiting them from doing so.


If there is no law or signage prohibiting them from doing so, they have every right to be there, like any other vehicle.

Same goes for local bus doing 70 kph on DK or 80 kph on motorway.



> If a police officer writes a tractor driver a ticket for unsafe speed of 30 km/h on a DK road and for hindering traffic, a judge will convict. Current policy seems to be not to write such tickets, but that could change on a whim.


If a police officer will try to write such a citation, it will be thrown out in court, if one will be inclined to fight it.


----------



## mcarling

ka__zet said:


> If there is no law or signage prohibiting them from doing so, they have every right to be there, like any other vehicle.


The question is not whether or not they have a right to be there. The question is whether or not they have a right to drive at a speed which makes the road unsafe for other vehicles and whether or not they have the right to hinder traffic. The law is clear on these questions. They don't have a right to drive at an unsafe speed (whether very fast or very slow) and they don't have a right to hinder traffic. That they get away with it in practice due to non-enforcement policies doesn't make it legal.

Edited to add: We're off-topic and for that I apologize. I will not continue to respond on this matter. It doesn't look like we're converging anyway.


----------



## maxam

Back to the summer '13 Few aerial pics from A4 near Góra Św. Anny. Map



maxam said:


> Parę fotek A4 z przelotu nad Górą Św. Anny.
> 
> Widok na wschód.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MOPy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Widok na zachód


----------



## m_rocco

Hey guys any news about works on Mszana bridge? Will be finally opened in May?
And in polish thread I've red (but not understood at all) that there are some good news about A1 section Pyrzowice-Piotrkow. It's true or I need to improve my polish??


----------



## Kemo

m_rocco said:


> Hey guys any news about works on Mszana bridge? Will be finally opened in May?


According to the company that repairs the bridge the date changed to 30th June...



> And in polish thread I've red (but not understood at all) that there are some good news about A1 section Pyrzowice-Piotrkow. It's true or I need to improve my polish??


A tender for construction of section Pyrzowice - Częstochowa (bypass) is supposed to be announced in the next 2 months. We'll see... it's not the first time we hear such news...


----------



## m_rocco

^^Thank a lot. Nothing to do, need to wait another year to pass on that bridge


----------



## Chris80678

del


----------



## Chris80678

Chris80678 said:


> According to the company that repairs the bridge the date changed to 30th June...
> 
> :bash: oh dear the ongoing saga of the Mszana bridge - what a disaster and an embarrassment


On another note is the S17/S12 between the Lublin Mełgiewska and 
Lublin Witosa interchanges supposed to be completed and opened to traffic on Monday 20th Jan 2014?


----------



## Kemo

Chris80678 said:


> On another note is the S17/S12 between the Lublin Mełgiewska and
> Lublin Witosa interchanges supposed to be completed and opened to traffic on Monday 20th Jan 2014?


No. Winter is supposed to finally come tomorrow.
This is how this section looks:


JinMao said:


> Zaktualizowana mapka Wielu rzeczy nie jestem pewien, więc proszę o komentarze i poprawki do mapki.



*
BREAKING NEWS
*Polimex got kicked from the construction of A1 and A4.


----------



## geogregor

Kemo said:


> BREAKING NEWS
> Polimex got kicked from the construction of A1 and A4.


Finally!!! :banana::banana:

Way to late if you ask me.


----------



## ufonut

S2 in Warsaw by *M_J_J*


----------



## Pascal20a

Who will built the A1 and the A4 then?


----------



## Luki_SL

^^We are waiting for new tenders.


----------



## Pascal20a

Which sections are involved of this tenders?


----------



## toonczyk

Those that Polimex-Mostostal was building. Have mercy, this board is not google...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

geogregor said:


> Way to late if you ask me.


The problem with these contracts is that if GDDKiA would boot a contractor from a project too quickly, they would likely run into trouble at court. Right now there is sufficient evidence that these contractors are clearly unable to fulfull the contract, and that a new tender is necessary. But if they cancel a contract very quickly, the contractor could win an appeal.


----------



## DiggerD21

Couldn't they give a 1st and a 2nd place for each tender? If the winner of the tender is not fulfilling the contract and gets kicked out from the construction site, the 2nd placed bidder gets the chance to complete the construction in accordance with its bid. Could save time.


----------



## markfos

Of course not, the cost is now different so there has to be a new tender, they can't come up with a new price like that.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't think so either. If I'm correct the A4 project was tendered about 4 or 5 years ago.


----------



## MichiH

^^ The bidding began in November 2009 and the contract was signed in September 2010.


----------



## Kemo

Also, many companies are not interested in finishing the construction (there were only 2 offers for A1 Toruń-Kowal, 3 for A4 Tarnów-Dębica, 3 for S5 Bojanowo-Rawicz).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Probably because there are many "unknowns" with the construction quality of the previous constructor. You don't want to give a warranty on a road that may be of inferior quality due to a previous contractor.


----------



## MonteChristo

Tunnel under Martwa Wisła in Gdańsk


----------



## void0

I have read reports that some construction companies got bankrupt after winning road construction bids in Poland, I am wondering what are the costs of motorway construction in Poland?


----------



## Pascal20a

When starting the new tenders?


----------



## void0

Pascal20a said:


> When starting the new tenders?


Final price


----------



## Pascal20a

What do you mean?


----------



## Kemo

void0 said:


> I have read reports that some construction companies got bankrupt after winning road construction bids in Poland


This is just an excuse these companies (Alpine Bau and some Irish ones) are making. They should blame themselves for offering impossible prices/not fulfilling the contracts, not the Polish road authority. 



> I am wondering what are the costs of motorway construction in Poland?


See here


Kemo said:


> Check here for full list: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=99629592&postcount=4637
> 
> Statistic made by *Maya83*
> 
> Example - contracts from 2010
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The costs (per km) are in the last column, in PLN.


----------



## Eulanthe

void0 said:


> I have read reports that some construction companies got bankrupt after winning road construction bids in Poland, I am wondering what are the costs of motorway construction in Poland?


Basically, what happened in Poland was a classic example of how the constructors were scamming governments in Europe. They were offering ridiculously low bids to win the work, then trying to force the Polish road authority to give them more money to complete the work. It was quite lucrative for these companies - they would just threaten to walk away unless they got extra cash, and in most cases, they got the money.

Except in Poland, where the road authority was ready and waiting for them. They scrutinised everything, they made a point of checking the work thoroughly (and often discovering sub-standard work) - and they refused to give a single zloty more to the companies. The conditions were all loaded in favour of the road authority, and the construction companies were told to simply go to court if they had a problem.

The construction companies simply didn't expect this - the Irish company in question is well known to have been absolutely shocked that a 'developing' country could be so ruthless in business. I think the construction companies thought Poland would be an easy place to make money - and they were shocked to find otherwise. 

The only downside is that Polish sub-contractors also went bankrupt, but given the level of corruption within the major companies (I've heard some really shocking stories about them that unfortunately can't be published on a public forum) - I'm not so sure it's a bad thing that they're all going to the wall. 

Alpine were doing it all over Europe - I think Serbia had major issues with them doing exactly this?

On a related note, can anyone explain to me why on earth they built Bojanowo-Rawicz first? I drive Poznan-Wroclaw quite a bit, and it seems that the section in question is completely useless. A lot of traffic goes via Gostyn on DW434, so what's the point in building that section first? Getting the S5 in place south from Rawicz would have made life a lot easier - as it stands, I won't use the S5 because it's still much quicker to go S11-DW434-DK5 than DK5-S5-DK5!


----------



## and802

Eulanthe said:


> .....
> Except in Poland, where the road authority was ready and waiting for them. They scrutinised everything, they made a point of checking the work thoroughly (and often discovering sub-standard work) - and they refused to give a single zloty more to the companies. The conditions were all loaded in favour of the road authority, and the construction companies were told to simply go to court if they had a problem.
> 
> The construction companies simply didn't expect this - the Irish company in question is well known to have been absolutely shocked that a 'developing' country could be so ruthless in business. I think the construction companies thought Poland would be an easy place to make money - and they were shocked to find otherwise...


correct. 
a couple of months ago there was a wise guy here, who was sure Poland soon would come into serious troubles. according to him and his secret, very well informed collegues, the irish company we are talking about was about to build a strong coallition to sue GDDKiA. 



sponge_bob said:


> ...
> You have 6 EU Ambassadors complaining omg: *TOGETHER* mg that there is a discernible pattern of administrative malfeasance in GDDKiA and you have 10s of contractors ( who still exist and who have not disappeared) pooling their data to select the best court case to take against GDDKiA.
> 
> *The result will be a massive slowdown as GDDKiA delegates a substantial portion of their staff/resources to defend against an avalanche of claims*. I am not predicting how the claims will actually turn out in court, in the end, which is why I said "contingent liability" .
> 
> If GDDKiA loses all the claims they will add up to €3bn including interest and costs and the EU will not pay a single penny of that, the Polish taxpayer will.
> 
> But *GDDKiA will be busy for the next 3 years defending the Polish taxpayer from the €3bn price tag*, or at least I would expect them to be.





sponge_bob said:


> ...
> *My contacts have indicated *that the high profile early court cases hinge on Geotechnical/ Disclosure issues. They worked for a company named on the last 2 pages of this thread.


I am sorry, sponge_bob, now reading it again it sounds even more crazy. your revelations should be published at first page of a Brussels tabloid, not here.



Eulanthe said:


> .....
> ...The only downside is that Polish sub-contractors also went bankrupt, but given the level of corruption within the major companies (I've heard some really shocking stories about them that unfortunately can't be published on a public forum) - I'm not so sure it's a bad thing that they're all going to the wall....


correct. it is a real pity. but this is business. you are free with your decisions. you did not estimate the risk and did not step out on time ? you are left with unpaid invoiced. sounds cruel, but true.


----------



## Eulanthe

and802 said:


> correct. a couple of months ago there was a wise guy here, who was sure Poland soon would come into serious troubles. according to him and his secret, very well informed collegues, the irish company we are talking about was about to build a strong coallition to sue GDDKiA.


I remember that, it was funny 

The GDDKiA know fine well that there's no chance of these foreign companies getting a favourable judgement in the Polish courts, and Poland has way too much influence in the EU to fall victim to unfavourable judgements in EU-level judicial proceedings. 

As I understand it, what was happening on a general level was that the GDDKiA were giving a certain amount of information and telling bidders that they could take it or leave it. They obviously thought that they could take it and then demand more money later - and the GDDKiA instead used every single trick in the book to delay/refuse payment. No wonder the construction companies were so upset - they probably never expected such behaviour from a governmental organisation. 

The most beautiful thing of all is that construction companies will still want to do business here because Poland got so much money this time round - and I dare say that the GDDKiA has no intention of changing their ways. 

I saw one complaint that said that it was unfair because the GDDKiA had ridiculously long payment terms while the subconstructors demanded payment within 7-14 days, leading to major cash flow issues. Sorry, big construction companies - but if you agree to long payment terms, then it's your problem. 



> correct. it is a real pity. but this is business. you are free with your decisions. you did not estimate the risk and did not step out on time ? you are left with unpaid invoiced. sounds cruel, but true.


I completely agree. If they had any sense of perspective, they would have been well aware that many of these tenders were won for ridiculously low prices - and that any problems with construction would leave them in a serious mess with unpaid invoices.


----------



## Kanadzie

It is unfortunate situation because of extra costs to Polish taxpayers and delays in work, but I am kind of proud GDDKiA did not fall into any traps 

But that kind of "scam" seems so... clean. In Canada there is a big travail at the moment, as construction companies (for roads, etc) were paying money to people in the government and colluding with each other to drive prices for road construction way up. A few mayors of cities have been arrested and many have resigned in disgrace. The mayor of Montreal, 1.8 M population, in particular resigned in disgrace and his replacement was arrested by police for corruption :nuts: Even the scams in Poland seem like not scams


----------



## sponge_bob

Eulanthe said:


> I remember that, it was funny


It was supposed to be, some klutz had flown off the handle defending GDDKiA to the death a few posts ante that one. 



> The GDDKiA know fine well that there's no chance of these foreign companies getting a favourable judgement in the Polish courts, and Poland has way too much influence in the EU to fall victim to unfavourable judgements in EU-level judicial proceedings.


We'll know that around 2018 won't we. It sort of does not matter what the Polish courts decide as these cases will all end up in the EU courts. 



> As I understand it, what was happening on a general level was that the GDDKiA were giving a certain amount of information and telling bidders that they could take it or leave it.


That much is true but a roads procurement authority is expected to provide a reasonable level of disclosure on geotechnical conditions etc, we'll know in around 2018 or so whether GDDKiA played that one absolutely perfectly or whether the initial planning was considered to be substandard by wider EU norms. 10 EU ambassadors making the same complaint together is ...shall we say.._unusual_. 



> The most beautiful thing of all is that construction companies will still want to do business here because Poland got so much money this time round - and I dare say that the GDDKiA has no intention of changing their ways.


GDDKiA can hardly change their ways at this moment in time. The cost would be immense. They are well dug in. 



> I saw one complaint that said that it was unfair because the GDDKiA had ridiculously long payment terms while the subconstructors demanded payment within 7-14 days, leading to major cash flow issues. Sorry, big construction companies - but if you agree to long payment terms, then it's your problem.


Correct. Cash flow problems are not actionable when they are written into a
signed contract. 



> If they had any sense of perspective, they would have been well aware that many of these tenders were won for ridiculously low prices - and that any problems with construction would leave them in a serious mess with unpaid invoices.


Subtended Suicide Bidding one could call it. Nevertheless the chaos caused by all these project collapses is quite severe and Poland has a very weak civil engineering sector as a consequence. 

This is good for German companies of course. No pressure like!


----------



## geogregor

I can see that Polish Road Authority has great PR department on this forum. 

Of course there were cases where contractors were taking a mickey, especially Alpine and, to lesser degree, the Irish ones. 
But, it is worth remembering that Irish state and companies were on their knees at that time so it was easy to kick them. 
I would like to see if GDDKiA would be so strong towards some major German contractor 

Preparations of the whole investment process on the side of GDDKiA is often shockingly bad with completely messed up geological research which creates extra costs and delays during the construction. Plots of land on route were often still in private hands at the start of construction.
The A4 is a string of delays after delays, many caused by bad initial designs.

Some procedures also take ages. 

Also, GDDKiA is a political body with all the pros and cons. 
Look at the treatment of the wretched Polimex. If they were Irish or, let say, Portuguese company they would be gone long time ago and construction of the A4 would be probably much more advanced. 

Overall GDDKiA does a lot of good job but please don't exaggerate with all the superlatives. Reading it almost feel like poor Polish Road Authority stood up to all the devil contractors from all around the world. :nuts:

Bloody John Wayne :lol:


----------



## sponge_bob

geogregor said:


> Preparations of the whole investment process on the side of GDDKiA is often shockingly bad with completely messed up geological research which creates extra costs and delays during the construction.


This is what I keep hearing, substandard and downright misleading geotechnical work abounded. No answers or clarifications were ever provided to any queries on the geotechnical work. 

Lets wait to see what the European Courts make of all this at some stage long removed in the future. Meanwhile crack on building roads, eh. 



> Overall GDDKiA does a lot of good job but please don't exaggerate with all the superlatives. Reading it almost feel like poor Polish Road Authority stood up to all the devil contractors from all around the world. :nuts:
> 
> Bloody John Wayne :lol:


Johnski Wayneski surely .


----------



## mcarling

Eulanthe said:


> I saw one complaint that said that it was unfair because the GDDKiA had ridiculously long payment terms while the subconstructors demanded payment within 7-14 days, leading to major cash flow issues. Sorry, big construction companies - but if you agree to long payment terms, then it's your problem.


Banks offer revolving lines of credit to companies as a solution to exactly this sort of problem. The company only has to convince the bank that their capitalization and business practices are sound. It's a cost of doing business.


----------



## Pascal20a

Will the section Roza - Lodz Poludnie (S8) be opened in January?


----------



## Chris80678

Pascal20a said:


> Will the section Roza - Lodz Poludnie (S8) be opened in January?


Yes, January 2014 is when the S8 between Róża and Łódż Południe is scheduled to be opened to traffic. Judging by the photos taken in November 2013 of this road on the Łódż gazeta website (thttp://lodz.gazeta.pl/lodz/1,35153,15049602,Pojechalismy_droga_ekspresowa_S8___FILM__ZDJECIA_.html) the roads looks to be completely finished and ready for use. It all depends on how quickly the permits needed for traffic to use the road are issued so I can't give you a definitive answer to your question


----------



## Kemo

mdhookey said:


> I'm not sure if anyone has seen Google Maps recently, but there has been big tug back and forth over the last month regarding how to display Polish expressways. Many of the S-routes had originally been colored dark orange (as with roads of similar motorway standard). However, beginning around December, several Google Map Maker editors started to significantly recolor the expressways from dark orange to standard yellow, making them virtually indistinguishable from DK routes. In response, several Polish-based Map Maker editors tried to reverse this, reediting the maps to reflect their higher road standard, but so far, Google Maps has not reversed it.


Google is making much worse edits to their maps than changing the priorities.
For example they consistently add Czerniewice junction on A1, which has been closed for over a month. (We then try to delete it but it keeps being reverted again.)
Google Maps in Poland became crap recently.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kemo said:


> Google Maps in Poland became crap recently.


Not just Poland, but just about anywhere outside the U.S. Google has absolutely no interest to provide maps that reflect the actual situation. Unfortunately the average tech-savvy crowd only cares about their local restaurants being on the map. Google Maps seems less and less intended for those who actually use the roads: motorists...

It's ridiculous that full-fledged motorways with 75 mph speed limits like autovías in Spain or expressways in Poland are shown as any other two-lane road through villages while some slow-speed 55 mph substandard U.S. freeway is shown as a motorway.


----------



## mcarling

I have found that Apple Maps are now better than Google Maps about 70 to 80% of the time.


----------



## mdhookey

mcarling said:


> I have found that Apple Maps are now better than Google Maps about 70 to 80% of the time.


I find Apple Maps generally fine, though it's a bit amusing at times. Their labeling of Zlín as Gottwaldov (the old Communist-era name) is quite ridiculous, even after nearly 25 years, as well as labeling some towns around here in Prague with German names. But hey, that's a whole other topic :laugh:

In any case, I do hope Google can come to its senses and recolor the expressways as being essentially "freeways." Many Polish-based map editors have been trying to reverse these changes in mini-edit wars, perhaps including some members from this forum too. I hope this task can also spread to the Polish language forums to keep up the pressure on Google, since its online map service is among the world's leading map sites. Maybe I'm hoping for too much, but it would be nice to see that map of Poland's road network look a little bit more darker (and accurate) to reflect recent investments


----------



## Chris80678

zumi.pl could do with being updated quicker as well. Not all recently opened motorways/expressways are shown on the map notably: the A1 between Toruń and Włocławek :bash:, the new road bridge in Toruń hno: and the S8 between Syców and Wieluń (Walichnowy)


----------



## ka__zet

I find that mapa.targeo.pl is usually most up to date map.


----------



## Pascal20a

And also in Croatia GM isnt up to date


----------



## woyteck

ChrisZwolle said:


> Not just Poland, but just about anywhere outside the U.S. Google has absolutely no interest to provide maps that reflect the actual situation. Unfortunately the average tech-savvy crowd only cares about their local restaurants being on the map. Google Maps seems less and less intended for those who actually use the roads: motorists...
> 
> It's ridiculous that full-fledged motorways with 75 mph speed limits like autovías in Spain or expressways in Poland are shown as any other two-lane road through villages while some slow-speed 55 mph substandard U.S. freeway is shown as a motorway.


That's why there is a 'Report a problem' or 'Edit' button on Google maps. I have done it on several occasions and usually within a week my contribution has been reviewed and accepted.


----------



## Kanadzie

mdhookey said:


> I find Apple Maps generally fine, though it's a bit amusing at times. Their labeling of Zlín as Gottwaldov (the old Communist-era name) is quite ridiculous, even after nearly 25 years, as well as labeling some towns around here in Prague with German names. But hey, that's a whole other topic :laugh:
> 
> In any case, I do hope Google can come to its senses and recolor the expressways as being essentially "freeways." Many Polish-based map editors have been trying to reverse these changes in mini-edit wars, perhaps including some members from this forum too. I hope this task can also spread to the Polish language forums to keep up the pressure on Google, since its online map service is among the world's leading map sites. Maybe I'm hoping for too much, but it would be nice to see that map of Poland's road network look a little bit more darker (and accurate) to reflect recent investments


I wonder what the deal is behind things like this. Certainly Sergey Brin is not clueless about Central Europe :lol:

I wonder though if the report error causes more problems than solves. Look how if you translate Polish to English you get all kinds of stupid things like somehow a Ford Mondeo turns into a Ford Focus (??!!) and kilometres turn into miles but the number stays the same.


----------



## mdhookey

Kanadzie said:


> I wonder what the deal is behind things like this. Certainly Sergey Brin is not clueless about Central Europe :lol:
> 
> I wonder though if the report error causes more problems than solves. Look how if you translate Polish to English you get all kinds of stupid things like somehow a Ford Mondeo turns into a Ford Focus (??!!) and kilometres turn into miles but the number stays the same.


Yeah, it really boggles the mind, doesn't it? As Poland is a growing economy and one of the best economic performers on the continent at the moment, you would think there would be pretty good, or at least accurate geographical information regarding transport infrastructure. Nothing can be completely accurate, but it should be as close as possible.

About Google Maps, some of the map maker editors chiefly responsible for these controversial changes are named Shenaz, Venkatagiri, manasadm, and ppuchakayala. From what I can see, these editors have quite a lot of experience on Google, and while I don't doubt that many of their edits have been beneficial, their edits for Polish expressways have been subject to a variety of complaints, with some people wondering out loud if it's actually spam data. 

In any case, I just hope that map programs like Google, Apple, or even Czech Mapy, can improve with user feedback


----------



## Rusonaldo

Construction of a bridge over the River Warta - expressway S8


----------



## sponge_bob

Openstreetmap is the most up to date map in most EU countries.


----------



## Shenkey

Nokia still has maps, you can also access on http://www.bing.com/maps

what is nice on this maps, it also has shoping centres inside  For me it also loads significantly faster then GM


----------



## Kemo

sponge_bob said:


> Openstreetmap is the most up to date map in most EU countries.


It however sucks in rural areas, generally.


----------



## Chris80678

The website zumi.pl has now been updated with the newly opened roads showing including: A1 Toruń - Włocławek West exit, the new bridge over the Wisła in Toruń, S8 Syców -Wielun, S8 Opacz - Salomea :cheers:


----------



## mcarling

Google Earth has new imagery from 22 July 2013 of the A1 construction east of Lodz.


----------



## Kemo

Purple - tenders to be announced this year, according to government's official plans:
Yellow, orange - tenders announced in 2013

(map by *IgorSel*)


----------



## snipe65

> Purple - tenders to be announced this year, according to government's official plans:
> Yellow, orange - tenders announced in 2013


I see that about half of s3 from Legnica - Lubawka is up for a tender, are there anymore details about this ?

Much appreciated!
Pawel


----------



## Kemo

Details?
(last 3 columns - cost in thousands PLN)


----------



## JackFrost

what happened to A4 jaroslaw-rzeszow? i thought it will open for traffic end of this year...


----------



## gregduh

I like the colorful bridges, it's a nice splash of personality even if it's just a short little bridge. If you're going to build a highway system, why not have a little fun with it?


----------



## geogregor

gregduh said:


> If you're going to build a highway system, why not have a little fun with it?


I would rather prefer structures which are blending better with the landscape.

Last thing we need in Poland are more tacky structures.
We already have whole housing estates painted in ridiculous colours. There is plenty of "fun" there. Almost as much as in kindergarten hno:


----------



## polkos

IMHO that colorful bridge looks much better from different angle. I don't like these colors, I would prefer white and gray. 

From that angle it reminds me machine from Contact movie


----------



## ufonut

A1/DTS interchange


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Embankments of coal?


----------



## zagłębiak1

polkos said:


> IMHO that colorful bridge looks much better from different angle. I don't like these colors, I would prefer white and gray.
> 
> From that angle it reminds me machine from Contact movie


Where is this bridge?


----------



## panthiocodin

Bydgoszcz my friend


----------



## Sunfuns

I don't mind the colours, but the bridge is built way too complex for the modest distance it spans.


----------



## kolejorz.

ChrisZwolle said:


> Embankments of coal?


Not exactly coal, it's main spoil from heaps


----------



## sponge_bob

kolejorz. said:


> Not exactly coal, it's main spoil from heaps


Recycling of spoil ( IE rock) from coal mines is very green.


----------



## John Maynard

They've fired the chief of GDDKIA involved in the dispute between the agency and construction companies, including Alpin Bau and SIAC, which 6 European governments have supported and complained. 
Link: http://www.euronews.com/newswires/2347436-poland-dismisses-state-road-agency-chief/

But look at the picture ! Is it the new way they found in Polska to protect constructions sites from diversions of materials, really very clever :lol:.


----------



## Iluminat

^^


>


are they implying he was sent to Afganistan or something :dunno:


----------



## macieii

Socialist mentality... All those poor companies now struggling for survival krew exactly the rules when they participated in tenders. Their managers or owners were too greedy to be cautious... They risked and they lost. And now what, the government is supposed to save them?


----------



## mcarling

macieii said:


> Socialist mentality... All those poor companies now struggling for survival krew exactly the rules when they participated in tenders. Their managers or owners were too greedy to be cautious... They risked and they lost. And now what, the government is supposed to save them?


Of course, the EU actively supports welfare for large wealthy corporations.


----------



## Eulanthe

macieii said:


> Socialist mentality... All those poor companies now struggling for survival krew exactly the rules when they participated in tenders. Their managers or owners were too greedy to be cautious... They risked and they lost. And now what, the government is supposed to save them?


I suspect that the real reason for his dismissal is that Bienkowska wants to have more women in prominent positions.


----------



## MonteChristo

John Maynard said:


> They've fired the chief of GDDKIA involved in the dispute between the agency and construction companies, including Alpin Bau and SIAC, which 6 European governments have supported and complained.
> Link: http://www.euronews.com/newswires/2347436-poland-dismisses-state-road-agency-chief/
> 
> But look at the picture ! Is it the new way they found in Polska to protect constructions sites from diversions of materials, really very clever :lol:.



butthurt alert!

6 european governments tried to save their badly managed companies (like Alpine Bau and SIAC)


----------



## snowdog

geogregor said:


> I would rather prefer structures which are blending better with the landscape.
> 
> Last thing we need in Poland are more tacky structures.
> We already have whole housing estates painted in ridiculous colours. There is plenty of "fun" there. Almost as much as in kindergarten hno:


That has it's charm, believe me ''blend in Holland'' is ****. Not only boring but also the rules and regulations that come with it are retarded, people aren't allowed to build an extra part on their own home on their own land because it won't fit in :bash:.

You should be grateful the western rules mentality hasn't reached Poland yet so badly, sure some EU rules show, but not as badly as over here.


----------



## Rombi

Seems that here fits very well known rule that you want sth you don't have ^^
In polish threads we discuss all the time "how western Europe is great in its Law of Urbanism enforcement"...


----------



## Iluminat

snowdog said:


> That has it's charm, believe me ''blend in Holland'' is ****. Not only boring but also the rules and regulations that come with it are retarded, people aren't allowed to build an extra part on their own home on their own land because it won't fit in :bash:.


Sounds logical to me, much like you can't just burn your house if you don't want it anymore and you can't do the same with your trash even when it's the cheapest way to dispose them. Such actions would affect other people in a negative way so there have to be some rules and I don't see why things like look or the size of a building shouldn't be regulated. Even in Poland you can't just build additional floors when you feel like it because the building might collapse or block the sunlight to your neighbours but at the same time you can add some fake greek columns and paint it bright yellow because you hate everyone and want to make them suffer at least a bit when they have to come nearby.


----------



## Kanadzie

But the look of a building is entirely subjective and can't cause an actual injury to anyone. Not burning the house is reasonable, it could cause neighbor's house to burn. Making sure foundation is able to support any extra levels is important, since house could fall down on neighbor or his car, etc. But the look, well anyone who would dare complain for someone's choice in house style, is just an asshole, the law is not for them


----------



## ka__zet

Kanadzie said:


> But the look of a building is entirely subjective and can't cause an actual injury to anyone.


Not really. Some makes you want to gouge your eyes out, and some can get you into such stupor that you will crash a car. Same goes for billboards.


----------



## Kanadzie

Even those don't bother me... or at least not as much as forcing someone to not have the aesthetics of their property in the way they want to have it. If it is not our money, it is not our business.

I actually like that 2nd picture. It is the stereotypical III RP domu except taken to the next order of magnitude... If Yankunovitch had that monstrosity, this one is Tusk mansion  It's crazy, it's wonderful.


----------



## sponge_bob

If you put that up a mountain down south and a bit of snow happened to fall on it then you have an entire extreme snowboarding facility ready for the Polish bid for the Winter Olympics in 2022. Might as well give the Slovaks a copy as well. 



Kanadzie said:


> I actually like that 2nd picture. It is the stereotypical III RP domu except taken to the next order of magnitude... If Yankunovitch had that monstrosity, this one is Tusk mansion  It's crazy, it's wonderful.





ka__zet said:


>


----------



## snowdog

Iluminat said:


> Sounds logical to me, much like you can't just burn your house if you don't want it anymore and you can't do the same with your trash even when it's the cheapest way to dispose them. Such actions would affect other people in a negative way so there have to be some rules and I don't see why things like look or the size of a building shouldn't be regulated. Even in Poland you can't just build additional floors when you feel like it because the building might collapse or block the sunlight to your neighbours but at the same time you can add some fake greek columns and paint it bright yellow because you hate everyone and want to make them suffer at least a bit when they have to come nearby.


People are way to fast with conclusions like ''affecting in a negative way''.

A good example is the N14 in The Hague, people opposed it as ''omg cars, woe is me, I'm a NIMBY moron'', in the end what happened is traffic through the actual neighborhood halved and properties rose in value since the new road.

And I hardly think adding a roof or garage for your caravan is affecting the street negatively.

Poland is still hugely better than Holland, over here you officially can't even touch your wiring without hiring an electrician, and in PL there is much less bureaucracy if you want to build or renovate your house.


> Not really. Some makes you want to gouge your eyes out, and some can get you into such stupor that you will crash a car. Same goes for billboards.


Personally I think that is far nicer than boring sameish stuff like this :



































Terrible and boring 
To completely ignore the terrible bureaucracy and all the rules and regulations over here .

EDIT:

I actually very much like the house on your 2nd pic !
And those small shops have their charm imo.


----------



## Chris80678

This is just an observation: 

We seem to have gone off topic here. What do houses have to do with roads/construction? I know we don't have any road openings coming up in Poland any time soon but still


----------



## sponge_bob

Back to the sacking of Lech Witecki the head of GDDKia so. Funnily enough just after he was sacked (or as he was being sacked) the GDDKia hightailed it to the Supreme Court....in Dublin. 

Word in Ireland is that GDDKia have made a provision in their 2014 budget for compensation payments to contractors. It appears that GDDKia disclosed this as part of this court case that GDDKia is taking in Ireland. 

Last week (completely out of the blue) GDDKia showed up in court in Dublin as you can see here. They are referred to as the PRA ( Polish Road Authority) in the article.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crim...rvival-scheme-puts-219-jobs-at-risk-1.1696008

The complexity is caused by SIAC looking for €120m in Poland while the GDDKia is counterclaiming for €70m in Poland. Meanwhile _SIAC are in a controlled bankruptcy process where they are expected to survive after most of their debts ( and that includes the GDDKia counterclaim I would think ....depending on the Supreme Court decision) are permanently written off_ and they have a clean looking balance sheet after today.....theoretically. 

The case is in the Irish Supreme Court today, the rumours on the 2014 provision are apparently based on some documents that GDDKia have supplied to SIAC in the interim. 

I will update with the result of the Supreme Court case later on today....and with any disclosures that are detailed.
GDDKia came to Dublin ( in a real hurry) only a day or two ( at most) after Lech was sacked. GDDKia may as well open an office in Dublin now seeing as other Irish contractors with claims outstanding in the Polish Courts may well bolt for examinership in 2014.


----------



## bewu1

How the Irish Superme Court may judge a litigaton between an Irish company and Polish Road Agency (GDDKiA) for construction of a road in Poland? What kind of litigation is it?


----------



## sponge_bob

bewu1 said:


> How the Irish Superme Court may judge a litigaton between an Irish company and Polish Road Agency (GDDKiA) for construction of a road in Poland? What kind of litigation is it?


GDDKiA came to the Irish Supreme Court for a hearing last week. 

The litigation would be technical and is probably about the notice that GDDKiA were given by the Examiner person (the insolvency expert) during the process. GDDKiA would consider themselves a creditor just like any other. SIAC consider GDDKiA to be their biggest debtor. 

I'll be back with more info when I have it, don't worry.


----------



## bewu1

Understand. So the question whether any monies are due to SIAC or by SIAC will be decided in Poland; the court in Ireland should divide what it is able to collect and to suspend the proceedings till the litigation in Poland ends.


----------



## geogregor

sponge_bob said:


> GDDKiA came to the Irish Supreme Court for a hearing last week.
> 
> The litigation would be technical and is probably about the notice that GDDKiA were given by the Examiner person (the insolvency expert) during the process. GDDKiA would consider themselves a creditor just like any other. SIAC consider GDDKiA to be their biggest debtor.
> 
> I'll be back with more info when I have it, don't worry.


So, what happens if Irish court rules that GDDKiA owes money to Irish contractor or to some financial institution owning what's left of the given contractor after the insolvency process?
Is it enforceable in Poland?


----------



## sponge_bob

geogregor said:


> So, what happens if Irish court rules that GDDKiA owes money to Irish contractor or to some financial institution owning what's left of the given contractor after the insolvency process?
> Is it enforceable in Poland?


They won't rule on that, the Polish Courts will. But GDDKia lost their case in Dublin today. 

I only have an outline report so far. It looks bad for GDDKia, they seem to have come to Dublin with lots of claims and no evidence. The judgement will be released later this week in full and may be very unkind to GDDKia/



> [Lawyer], for the examiner, said, *if this appeal was about protecting the Polish taxpayer, the [GDDKia] should have been in the matter from the outset and had also failed to produce evidence to support its claims concerning what it is owed.*


Lets wait a few days to see what the judgement says.


----------



## Surel

^^
To be honest I am not surprised that Irish court rules against a Polish public institution.

I would be more worried about whether the changes in GDDKIA will lead to a softer GDDKIA = > i.e. what is the real reason for those changes.


----------



## sponge_bob

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0225/506599-siac/



> The Supreme Court has dismissed an appeal by the [GDDKia] Polish Roads Authority against a survival scheme for construction company SIAC.
> 
> The decision clears the way for the implementation of a survival scheme for key companies in the group.
> 
> The Polish authority *claims to be owed up to €70m by SIAC*.


and



> The court will give the reasons for its decision at a later date.


If the GDDKia came to court claiming it was owed €70m...and basically provided NO EVIDENCE for that claim......God help them. The Supreme Court are very busy and have no time for time wasters. GDDKia had a week to file evidence and have had since 2012 to collect the evidence. 

There is, of course, no doubt that the GDDKia could validly counterclaim against SIAC as a creditor but:

a) They went to a Supreme Court in an EU Country and offered no evidence underpinning this counterclaim. No evidence is highly insulting to any court and in a busy Supreme court it is even more insulting. 
b) They had 70 days to furnish that counterclaim to the Examiner, and did not do.
c) And they tried to usurp due process/an established legal procedure in another EU country after the last moment (IE when the 70 days were up) .
d) Plus they have had since 2012 (when SIAC pulled out) to add up these figures for their counterclaim.

Remember that SIAC would only pay their creditors 5c to 10c in the € at most so even if the Examiner accepted the full counterclaim_ GDDKia would get €3.5m to €7m in cash_ instead of nothing as is now the case. Add €100k for legal expenses and the GDDKia lost _up to_ €7.1m today. 

In terms of Claims and Counterclaims overall there are around €2.5BN of contractor claims against GDDKia in the Polish courts and probably at least €1bn of counterclaims by GDDKia against the contractors.

Now GDDKia get nothing and with a serious tonguelash of a judgement to follow that can be admitted in argument and quoted in EVERY Court in the EU. I would be sweating for the next few days were I a GDDKia inhouse lawyer. 

No wonder they sacked Witecki. He should have fought every claim against GDDKia NO MATTER WHERE or HOW these claims are advanced and not relied solely on the Polish Courts. 

But in fairness to the new woman in charge of GDDKia she did make an effort to show up in Dublin the minute she got the job... and a really crap effort overall.


----------



## Luki_SL

A1/S8 interchange Łódź - South- aerial photos made by Rufffus :
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=111745054&postcount=4401


----------



## Chris80678

Still a long time until any more road openings in Poland :bash:


----------



## Kemo

S8/S14 southern part of Łódź ringroad should open soon. It's almost completed.


----------



## Eulanthe

Shouldn't the missing bit of S11 in Poznań open soon too?


----------



## Kemo

No, there are problems with crossing the Druzhba pipeline (Rurociąg Przyjaźń). Completing of S11 will be most likely delayed till autumn.


----------



## Chris80678

S8/S14 southern part of Łódź ringroad should open soon. It's almost completed. 

Is that the part between the S8/S14 junction at Róża and DK91? Obviously the S8/A1 interchange can't open until the A1 between Stryków and Tuszyn is completed in 2015


----------



## Pascal20a

Which sections of the S8 will go in construction soon?


----------



## John Maynard

Deo said:


> Breslau? Wroclaw in English.


Well, still the correct English writing is with the Polish accents "Wrocław" and not "Wroclaw", so the alternate name "Breslau" is at least correct and far more convenient to write internationally without needing a Polish keyboard:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrocław.
The same applies for, per example, Lodz or Gdansk, all are big cities; why the hell you people insist on Polish accents hno:?

On the other side, I could not imagine if International folks should write French names of big cities with French accents :cheers:.


----------



## Iluminat

^^Because they represent different sounds :dunno: 
eg. 
l = l but ł = w 
o = o but ó = u
etc.


----------



## Blackraven

Meh, I'll just say Wroclaw = "row" + "claw"

:cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Polish placenames are impossible to pronounce somewhat correctly if you don't know some basics of the Polish language.

"wro-claw" is nothing remotely like how the city name is pronounced in Polish, which is closer to "vrots-waf". Łódź is nothing like "Lodz" or "Lots", but something like "Woodzh".

However, you can't be aware of how all city names in the world are pronounced. I assume Polish people won't bother if you write the city name without all the accents, which most non-Polish keyboards don't have. (Another option is to copy-paste it from Wikipedia or Google Earth, which is what I usually do).


----------



## macieii

@John_Maynard... If you wish to be polite... don't use the name "Breslau" when talking to Poles  Similarly, not Auschwitz, but Oświęcim...


----------



## Kanadzie

macieii said:


> @John_Maynard... If you wish to be polite... don't use the name "Breslau" when talking to Poles  *Similarly, not Auschwitz, but Oświęcim*...


Except for the unfortunate areas of that town, they stay German name :lol:


----------



## cinxxx

People here (Germans) seem all to use the German names


----------



## John Maynard

macieii said:


> @John_Maynard... If you wish to be polite... don't use the name "Breslau" when talking to Poles  Similarly, not Auschwitz, but Oświęcim...


According to you, is this being impolite than to write and spell, a big Polish city with a name easier to write and pronounce for foreigners that doesn't speak Polish?
By the way, "Breslau" is still used by many Germanic and Nordic countries (not only Germans), are they being impolite? Should they write and spell "Wrocław" instead, to make you feel happier :lol:. 
If you are being correct and according so much importance for historical facts, you should stop to write and enunciate "Lwów" and "Wilno", but instead "Lviv" and "Vilnius", as it could be also impolite to Ukrainians and Lithuanians :wtf:.


----------



## Kanadzie

John Maynard said:


> If you are being correct and according so much importance for historical facts, you should stop to write and enunciate "Lwów" and "Wilno", but instead "Lviv" and "Vilnius", as it could be also impolite to Ukrainians and Lithuanians :wtf:.


Polska does!


----------



## John Maynard

kay:


----------



## toonczyk

John Maynard said:


> If you are being correct and according so much importance for historical facts, you should stop to write and enunciate "Lwów" and "Wilno", but instead "Lviv" and "Vilnius", as it could be also impolite to Ukrainians and Lithuanians :wtf:.


I don't think it's a matter of politeness, but rather of language. When people talk about Wrocław in German, it's only right to call it Breslau, but we're having a discussion in English, so we should use English names. Most cities' names don't have English translations, so you should use their original names (or their latin transliteraion). So yeah, just because I'm Polish doesn't mean I should be calling Lviv "Lwów", Paris "Paryż" and Vienna "Wiedeń" when having a discussion on SSC...

Then again, who cares about language


----------



## Dantiscum

John Maynard said:


> According to you, is this being impolite than to write and spell, a big Polish city with a name easier to write and pronounce for foreigners that doesn't speak Polish?
> By the way, "Breslau" is still used by many Germanic and Nordic countries (not only Germans), are they being impolite? Should they write and spell "Wrocław" instead, to make you feel happier :lol:.
> If you are being correct and according so much importance for historical facts, you should stop to write and enunciate "Lwów" and "Wilno", but instead "Lviv" and "Vilnius", as it could be also impolite to Ukrainians and Lithuanians :wtf:.



You truly don't understand any of the language using rules.
When you speak english, you have to use official english names, which are in most case current original names without diacritical marks (so Wroclaw in this case). If you use "Breslau" there's a chance some people even don't know which city you are talking about. Argument, that germanic languages use this name is stupid, or maybe I can use the chinese name of London in a discussion in spanish?
Using polish names of foreign cities (when speaking polish) is a different case. We also say Monachium, Nowy Jork, Rzym or Moskwa, because those are the names of these cities in polish. We also have nothing against using the names Breslau or Danzig when speaking german.


----------



## John Maynard

Dantiscum said:


> You truly don't understand any of the language using rules.
> When you speak english, you have to use official english names, which are in most case current original names without diacritical marks (so Wroclaw in this case). If you use "Breslau" there's a chance some people even don't know which city you are talking about. Argument, that germanic languages use this name is stupid, or maybe I can use the chinese name of London in a discussion in spanish?
> Using polish names of foreign cities (when speaking polish) is a different case. We also say Monachium, Nowy Jork, Rzym or Moskwa, because those are the names of these cities in polish. We also have nothing against using the names Breslau or Danzig when speaking german.


I think is you who doesn't know who to read :lol:. 
Your argument does not hold, because "Wrocław" would be actually "chinese" for any Westerner who don't speak Polish :bash:.


----------



## Kanadzie

Dantiscum said:


> You truly don't understand any of the language using rules.
> When you speak english, you have to use official english names, which are in most case current original names without diacritical marks (so Wroclaw in this case). If you use "Breslau" there's a chance some people even don't know which city you are talking about. Argument, that germanic languages use this name is stupid, or maybe I can use the chinese name of London in a discussion in spanish?
> Using polish names of foreign cities (when speaking polish) is a different case. We also say Monachium, Nowy Jork, Rzym or Moskwa, because those are the names of these cities in polish. We also have nothing against using the names Breslau or Danzig when speaking german.


But English also has its names for cities... Prague, Warsaw and Vienna for example. Breslau was normal name for Wroclaw in English also, until... it became the inexplicable "łroł-klał" Wroclaw :lol: There is a town "Breslau" in Canada founded by some people from Wroclaw, but it didn't change name... anyway, best solution, do as my cousins in the Legnica area do, when hear mention of Wroclaw, spit on the floor and say how Krakow is better :lol:


----------



## macieii

John Maynard said:


> According to you, is this being impolite than to write and spell, a big Polish city with a name easier to write and pronounce for foreigners that doesn't speak Polish?
> By the way, "Breslau" is still used by many Germanic and Nordic countries (not only Germans), are they being impolite? Should they write and spell "Wrocław" instead, to make you feel happier :lol:.
> If you are being correct and according so much importance for historical facts, you should stop to write and enunciate "Lwów" and "Wilno", but instead "Lviv" and "Vilnius", as it could be also impolite to Ukrainians and Lithuanians :wtf:.


It's not about making me happier, it's about the connotations that these specific places and their names in German have in Polish minds, at least some of them. Similarly, Danzig. And I am just drawing your attention (i believe in a polite way) as you may not be aware of that... I could explain that to you via PM if you wish, as this is becoming a huge OT. 

And yes, whenever I speak to Ukrainians or Lithuanians I use their names for these two particular cities (for quite similar reasons, btw). Whenever I speak to Germans, I also try to use their names... Munchen or even neutral Munich sounds much better than our Monachium, doesn't it ?

You can be arrogant, or you can at least try to be nice


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Have any of the new road numbers (D9x) been spotted in the field yet?


----------



## Surel

^^
^^
Why so much fuss about how to pronounce Vratislav?


----------



## sponge_bob

Back in Ireland, no sign of the written Supreme Court judgement from the GDDKia case yet and that judgement could take months to show up online.

Meanwhile. 

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/diplomats-lobby-for-sisk-and-siac-in-poland-30053287.html



> In response to the six ambassadors' request for a joint meeting with Mr Piechocinski to discuss the road construction dilemma, the deputy prime minister instead offered to meet each ambassador individually. The six ambassadors replied stating that they would prefer a joint meeting. This received no response.
> 
> *Five months later,* on January 15, _the Irish embassy and the other five embassies received a communique from the Polish ministry of economy, stating that workshops would be organised_ from mid March on Polish contractual law for experts and investors from the six represented EU countries.


Nothing _really_ new there, it is just that the claims against GDDkia have not gone away either on a legal or separately on a diplomatic basis. 

Refusing outright to meet 6 EU ambassadors, when they request a meeting, is not the done thing in Europe. None of the 6 will bother attending Mr Piechocinskis 'workshops' I would think.


----------



## Dantiscum

John Maynard said:


> I think is you who doesn't know who to read :lol:.
> Your argument does not hold, because "Wrocław" would be actually "chinese" for any Westerner who don't speak Polish :bash:.


So what? First we are not talking about spoken language, so the pronunciation has nothing to do about it. And writing Wroclaw isn't that hard fo you, is it? 
Second, you can't just use a different random language for a single word (and a city name is talking to you in english and suddenly he switches languages for some of the words because they are to hard for him to pronounce...

Oder vielleicht, angesichts der Tatsache, dass du die deutsche Sprache anscheinend weitgehend beherrscht hast, würdest du dich lieber mit mir auf deutsch unterhalten? Wenn du die deustchen Stadtnamen anstatt der englischen bevorzugst, dann würde ich vorschlagen, dass das gesamte Gespräch ausgerechnet in dieser Sprache und nicht auf englisch weitergeführt wird...
(So if you use the german city names instead of the english, than I think you speak this language very well and you would prefer speaking german, so we can continue this discussion in this language?)



Kanadzie said:


> But English also has its names for cities... Prague, Warsaw and Vienna for example. Breslau was normal name for Wroclaw in English also, until... it became the inexplicable "łroł-klał" Wroclaw :lol: There is a town "Breslau" in Canada founded by some people from Wroclaw, but it didn't change name... anyway, best solution, do as my cousins in the Legnica area do, when hear mention of Wroclaw, spit on the floor and say how Krakow is better :lol:


Of course english has some own names for major cities, but for those without a specific english name, english (and not only engish, for every other language we have the same rules) uses the actual official name of the city.

It has nothing to do with ideology, it's LANGUAGE RULES. Trust me, I'm a linguist.


----------



## sponge_bob

Dantiscum said:


> Of course english has some own names for major cities, but for those without a specific english name, english (and not only engish, for every other language we have the same rules) uses the actual official name of the city.


I would think that only around 10 European cities have a commonly used English name. Venice Warsaw Prague Copenhagen Rome Geneva and Vienna are some of the few and these names can be shared with the French on occasion. 

Otherwise the convention in English is to use what the locals call the city, IE Wroclaw. Its not like I would use the name 'Aix en Chapelle' in an English language forum when discussing Autobahns either even though the name was widely used in ENGLISH up to the 1970s.


----------



## meeting




----------



## Rusonaldo

Highway A4 Jarosław - Bodrer with Ukraina






Expressway S8 Wieruszów - Sieradz


----------



## panthiocodin

Highway A4 Jarosław - Bodrer with Ukraina - is it already open? I haven't seen a single car heading towards Ukraine? In general doesn't looks very busy but a grate video man! Thx


----------



## darko06

John Maynard said:


> Here are some pictures :
> ...


Thanks.


----------



## sponge_bob




----------



## John Maynard

meeting said:


>


Thank you for the video ;-).

Former RAB Gliwice-Bytom, which is today part of DK88, is known as "Old Motorway" (Stara Autostrada), but more sadly famous, as "Death Road" (Droga Śmierci), because of the many tragic accidents that occurred during the last 20 years. It has many stretches registered "officially" as "black point" of deadly accidents in Poland. 









"Black point" of DK 88, ul. Tarnogórskiej in Gliwice.

Yet, I would be curious to know the reasons why Germans choose to construct this stretch as "sub-standard" RAB (with only one large undivided carriageway and two lanes), while you can see on the scheme below that their own "norms" were much higher during this period?









Evolution of Autobahn "standards" from HaFraBa in 1927 to RAB in 1939.
Note that the 1939 width configuration is still in use today!










Another example to illustrate this is the RAB Heidelberg-Karlsruhe, exit Karlsruhe-Durlach in 1939.


As you can see below, DK 88 is part of the "obwodnica" (bypass) system in Gliwice; but also, more largely, as a main transit artery of the Silesian Metropolis.
Improvements should be made today, at least, by putting a central barrier to prevent deadly frontal collisions.


----------



## Shenkey

ufonut said:


> Highways / expressways:
> 
> U/C 300 km
> In Operation 2805 km
> Under Tender 781 km
> Soon u/Tender 575 km
> Total *4461 km*


do you have data about other countries in EU?

this should put Poland fairly high on the list


----------



## bad_boy

We did not have to wait too long for the first tenders. 

Today GDDKiA is announcing 4 tenders for A1 from Pyrzowice to DK1 north of Częstochowa (including bypass of Częstochowa). To be built in concrete.

The construction period is 30 to 33 months from the execution of the contract (should be this year), excluding winter periods of December 15th - March 15th.

If everything goes fine (no Mszana bridge this time ), the new road will be open in late 2017 or early 2018.

EDIT: MAP








http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/14331/Ruszyly-przetargi-na-57-km-autostrady-A1


----------



## Kemo

John Maynard said:


>


This is where junction with A1 is today:
http://goo.gl/maps/Zidhj











> Viaduct over the railway in Gliwice, built in 1941-1944 by prisoners of concentration camps, today part of DK 88, 2009.


This viaduct is now under reconstruction, photos here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=108863520&postcount=923



> Former RAB Gliwice-Bytom, which is today part of DK88, is known as "Old Motorway" (Stara Autostrada)


Also known as "betonówka" (concrete road - though it is not concrete anymore) or "hitlerówka" (meaning is obvious).



> Improvements should be made today, at least, by putting a central barrier to prevent deadly frontal collisions.


As you can see on my photo above, central barrier has been put in the area of junction with A1.


______________________



panthiocodin said:


> Highway A4 Jarosław - Bodrer with Ukraina - is it already open? I haven't seen a single car heading towards Ukraine?


Yes, it was opened in December.


----------



## Reivajar

Today vegetation is much denser.


----------



## John Maynard

Kemo said:


> This is where junction with A1 is today:
> http://goo.gl/maps/Zidhj


And, you can see the original concrete surfacing on the shoulder, as asphalt was just poured on: https://maps.google.pl/?ll=50.30699...Ba_i9GnZxc806BzYRQ&cbp=12,357.51,,0,49.9&z=17



Kemo said:


> As you can see on my photo above, central barrier has been put in the area of junction with A1.


It is unfortunate, that this is still not done to the entire "dangerous" section, safety would benefit.


----------



## Kemo

John Maynard said:


> It is unfortunate, that this is still not done to the entire "dangerous" section, safety would benefit.


And probably won't be done, because the road would be too narrow.


----------



## darko06

John Maynard said:


> Here are some pictures :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RAB 29 Gleiwitz-Beuthen, 1937.
> Today, this section is part of DK 88, al. Nowaka-Jeziorańskiego near Zabrze.
> ...


However, if one looks at the span of this overpass, builders had left enough space on the left to wide this RAB in the future.
My question is: is it possible to wide this old motorway to put a Ney Jersey barrier in the middle of it on the whole stretch, leaving old concrete pavement below recent asphalt pavement intact (making an additional concrete widening tape) or it is necessary to torn down old concrete pavement and remake it from the scratch?


----------



## darko06

From this http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=108863520&postcount=923, an interesting photo:









It is interesting that parts of this viaduct are welded, not riveted. For 1940s it seems an advantage procedure in constructing a motorway viaduct.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

bad_boy said:


> Some good news. Today the government approved extension of Schedule 5 to the Road Construction Program 2011-2015. This is official decision approved by the Council of Ministers (including Ministry of Finance) and includes projects for which *tenders *will be announced until 2015.
> 
> The list of *new projects *includes some *575 kms *and is as follows:
> 
> *A1 *Pyrzowice - northern end of Częstochowa bypass (construction 2014-2017),


So this is not planned as a toll concession anymore? I believe it used to be planned as private concession like A2 west.


----------



## John Maynard

[


sponge_bob said:


> By comparison Spain and Portugal joined the EU in 1986 and Greece in 1982 and Spain will finally finish their core network in 2015 while Portugal is pretty much finished bar a suspended mountain tunnel section which means it will have taken them over 30 years.
> 
> I really cannot see Poland taking as long to do the job as Spain and Portugal did. I cannot see Poland building motorways to nowhere a la Spain and Portugal either but the Iberian programs had a stunning effect on road safety, you are more likely to die in an urban road accident in Portugal than in a rural road accident nowadays.


I don't want to be pessimistic, but (according to Wikipedia) Spain has the biggest motorway/expressway network in Europe (even bigger than Germany) and the third in the world (after China and USA), totalizing 16,204 km (as of 2012). Taking into consideration the fall of dictatorial regimes, Spain is "free" since 1975, while Poland is now for nearly 25 years; so Spain would have taken 40 years to finish their (much larger) m./e. network. Also, you must take into account that fewer motorways/expressways were built in Poland during the first 20 years since collapse of communism. The last 5 years have seen a dramatic change in this tempo, but is unfortunately, now slowing down. So with 2'805 km today in operation, they would need to construct another 14'000 km to get into the level of Spain, and I can barely see how they could manage to catch this up in 15 years.
Also, Spain has lots of separatist movements, which Poland, fortunately doesn't have (Silesians are piece of cake in comparison to Spanish terror), and therefore more political stability .
And yes, more motorways/expressway means less killed in road accidents ^^, a factor that apparently many politicians doesn't take enough into consideration.


----------



## Reivajar

^^ Probably it is just because for Polish politicians motorway and expressway construction is not a priority as it was in Spain. There you have the different rhythm in the network extension. However, it was as well a bad factor as it provoked an oversized network in Spain. I don't think it has something to do with nationalism and separatism in some regions in Spain (most of the oversized and underused network is in Castille).

Furthermore, I am not sure if such a large network as in Spain would be necessary in Poland. Population distribution and urban areas have a different layout.

According to the current plans, which would be the total length of the planned network?


----------



## Kemo

~7500 km
So we have so far completed 1/3 of the plan


----------



## bad_boy

ChrisZwolle said:


> So this is not planned as a toll concession anymore? I believe it used to be planned as private concession like A2 west.


That is correct, the initial plan was to grant concession for the entire unbuilt part from Pyrzowice to Tuszyn.

Now the southernmost part tendered today will be financed from national funds (as opposed to private investor). It should be toll free as well, but I would not expect it will stay toll free forever.

What will be the funding scheme for the last part from Częstochowa to Tuszyn is anyones guess today. This is the most lucrative road in Poland (will be built as 2x3 from the start). That is probably also its curse, because the government attempts to find sophisticated funding formula for it for a decade without success...


----------



## sponge_bob

Reivajar said:


> Furthermore, I am not sure if such a large network as in Spain would be necessary in Poland. Population distribution and urban areas have a different layout.



Span is twice the size of Poland (nearly) and is not as important a transit country. Around 7500km would be about right for Poland.

Poland will pass out the UK by 2016 or so. The UK has what is easily the most miserable high speed network of all the major EU countries ( in terms of network size, economy and population) although it is generally free to use excepting some key bridges which are tolled and where network construction started in the 1950's.


----------



## dexter2

Łódź underground main train station construction (part of new city centre) update 2013:


----------



## geogregor

sponge_bob said:


> Span is twice the size of Poland (nearly) and is not as important a transit country. Around 7500km would be about right for Poland.
> 
> Poland will pass out the UK by 2016 or so. The UK has what is easily the most miserable high speed network of all the major EU countries ( in terms of network size, economy and population) although it is generally free to use excepting some key bridges which are tolled and where network construction started in the 1950's.


It's true that UK under-invested in its roads in recent years.
However, many people forget that most of the UK's population is concentrated on an area not much larger than Netherlands, namely southern half of England.
You really don't need thousands of miles of motorways to connect major population centers.
What is needed is capacity, that's why UK has most of its motorways built to at least 2x3 profile.
UK will never have network as vast as geographically larger countries. It doesn't need it. 

Poland has its population much more evenly spread around much larger area.
Also, in Poland you need good roads running from border to border as we are a transit country.
UK hardly needs high capacity roads to its remote corners.
There is no surprise that Poland needs much larger road network than UK.


----------



## mcarling

sponge_bob said:


> Around 7500km would be about right for Poland.


In my opinion, Poland needs about 10,000km of motorways/expressways.



sponge_bob said:


> Poland will pass out the UK by 2016 or so. The UK has what is easily the most miserable high speed network of all the major EU countries....


England desperately needs the M31 which was planned in the 1970s. It would reduce many trips by more than 15 kilometers and would alleviate congestion on England's most congested motorways.


----------



## białek

mcarling said:


> In my opinion, Poland needs about 10,000km of motorways/expressways.


Why so? Here is the map of planned motorway&expressway network (in black) and four _possible_ extensions marked in red based on my subjective judgement. 

i.imgur . com / bmwX780 (SSC forbids me to post a link for some reason, sorry for inconvenience)

1. S16 Grudziądz - Olsztyn - Ełk (some sections east of Olsztyn already build in S standard) - ca. 280km
2. S5 Wrocław - CZ (+ link to Wałbrzych/S3) - ca. 115km + 75km =190km
3. Extension of S74 linking it with A1 and S8 - no idea, my guess would be 50-70km
4. BDI Bielsko Biała - Kraków (currently planned as upgraded 2x2 national road) - ca. 60km

Altogether - ca. 600km. 7500 currently planned +600=8100km. I can't really see space for another 2000km of A/S.


----------



## mcarling

białek;112039647 said:


> Why so? Here is the map of planned motorway&expressway network (in black) and four _possible_ extensions marked in red based on my subjective judgement.


I believe all of the following would be reasonable to build before 2050:

S22 extension from Elblag to Kostrzyn nad Odra.
S79 from Warsaw to Gora Kalwaria to Kozienice to Zwolen to Lipsko to Ozarow to Sandomierz to Nowa Deba to Rzeszow.
Outer ring road of Warsaw at a roughly 40 to 50 kilometer radius i.e. roughly about 300 kilometer circumference.
S7 western bypass of Warsaw from Zakrochym to Pruszkow to Tarczyn.
New S route from Lublin (including southern bypass of Lublin) to Kielce (including southern bypass of Kielce) to Czestochowa (including southern bypass of Czestochowa) to Opole to Klodzko.
New S route from A4/A18 intersection to Leszno to A2/S5 intersection east of Poznan near Robakowa.
Northern bypass of Krakow (completing the ring).
New S route Zamocz to Janow Lubelski.
New S route Kielce to Tarnow (including western bypass of Tarnow) to Nowy Sacz (with a possible extension to the SK border in the direction of Presov).


----------



## sponge_bob

geogregor said:


> However, many people forget that most of the UK's population is concentrated on an area not much larger than Netherlands, namely southern half of England.


If you take the NE and NW of England they have a combined population of 20m and one motorway across the mountains in the south of the 2 regions. ( the M62) . Two blocks of 10m persons and one connecting motorway that is frequently almost impassable in winter.

It takes very little to knock out the UK network as it is not built for redundancy and the last significant piece of redundancy added was the M40 in the 1980s. Since then they have concentrated on missing links like in Scotland and the M3 downs section and very little of that even. 

Only 2 short sections of Motorway are actually proposed and one is in Scotland between Glasgow and Edinburgh ...the biggest single new project ( and that is redundancy ) is the new Forth Bridge also in Scotland. The other short section is a small extension of the A1(M) in Yorkshire. 

Poland will have the guts of 3 major north south and 3 major east west routes end to end by 2020 and will probably have full 4 x 4 by 2027. A much better grid.


----------



## mcarling

sponge_bob said:


> Poland will have the guts of 3 major north south and 3 major east west routes end to end by 2020 and will probably have full 4 x 4 by 2027. A much better grid.


As others have already mentioned, Britain is an island while Poland is along major international crossroads, so motorway network comparisons are apples-to-oranges. If the areas, populations, and population distributions for Britain and Poland were identical, the motorway network requirements would be significantly different.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The comparison with the United Kingdom is not really relevant. Poland and the UK are vastly different in geography and demography. 

The proposed 7,500 kilometer motorway network is pretty much a basic network that connects all large cities. This does not include motorways to rural areas, to small towns and large suburban motorway networks like Spain and Portugal have developed.


----------



## metacatfry

Especially the commuter traffic is growing fast and together with suburbs growing will require greater rate of expansion of urban motorways.


----------



## Kemo

mcarling said:


> S22 extension from Elblag to Kostrzyn nad Odra.


This one runs through sparsely populated regions. Also it would be a duplicate of S6 and S5. Only the section Piła (S10) - Gorzów (S3) would make sense.



> S79 from Warsaw to Gora Kalwaria to Kozienice to Zwolen to Lipsko to Ozarow to Sandomierz to Nowa Deba to Rzeszow.


Superfluous duplicate of S7 and S17.



> Outer ring road of Warsaw at a roughly 40 to 50 kilometer radius i.e. roughly about 300 kilometer circumference.


It is too expensive to build such "outer ring" in motorway standard just for transit trucks. Modernisation of existing road (bypasses etc.) should handle the traffic.



> S7 western bypass of Warsaw from Zakrochym to Pruszkow to Tarczyn.


Science-fiction, there is a national park there.



> New S route from Lublin (including southern bypass of Lublin) to Kielce (including southern bypass of Kielce) to Czestochowa (including southern bypass of Czestochowa) to Opole to Klodzko.


This one is planned semi-officially.



> New S route from A4/A18 intersection to Leszno


Planned unofficially.


> to A2/S5 intersection east of Poznan near Robakowa.


Superfluous duplicate of S5.



> Northern bypass of Krakow (completing the ring).


There are even some chances that it will be build around 2020.



> New S route Zamocz to Janow Lubelski.


Superfluous.



> New S route Kielce to Tarnow (including western bypass of Tarnow) to Nowy Sacz (with a possible extension to the SK border in the direction of Presov).


Planned unofficially.

I would add two routes:
-"A4bis" - southern bypass of Silesian metropolis
- road connecting S8 near Zambrów/Ostrów Mazowiecka with S7 and S10 (forming route Białystok - Toruń)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

S46 Opole - Częstochowa. It could even go to Kielce or Jędrzejów.
S9 Radom - Rzeszów.
S52 Bielsko-Biała - Kraków

I actually think an outer beltway of Warszawa is a good idea. I don't mean it should be constructed in 2020 or so, but it will serve much more than just some transit traffic, it would also connect numerous sizable towns and small cities.


----------



## ufonut

In the meantime Polish regions are investing large amounts of money into "bicycle highways". 

South-Eastern Poland will build 420 km of bicycle paths linking various towns and tourist attractions. 

Malopolska region will build 673 km of bicycle "highways". In addition many special paths for skiers will also be created.


----------



## Pascal20a

When its possible to have all motorway from czech border near ostrava to warsaw?


----------



## John Maynard

Kemo said:


> It is too expensive to build such "outer ring" in motorway standard just for transit trucks. Modernisation of existing road (bypasses etc.) should handle the traffic.


I want to draw your attention that such road already exists and is part of DK 50 and 62. It's called "Duża Obwodnica Warszawy" (Large Warsaw Bypass), or "Obwodnica Tranzytowa TIR" (TIR Transit Bypass) as it's compulsory for trucks to take this route; passing through Warsaw is forbidden. However, it's not a motorway, but mostly a normal 2X1 national road that often passes through towns and villages, though some improvements were made in many areas to bypass them. The total length is ∼329 km, and its radius is between 20 and 30 km of the city's limits.









SISKOM map of TIR Transit Warsaw Bypass.


----------



## John Maynard

ChrisZwolle said:


> The proposed 7,500 kilometer motorway network is pretty much a basic network that connects all large cities. This does not include motorways to rural areas, to small towns and large suburban motorway networks like Spain and Portugal have developed.


Nevertheless, it would be great if they finish this network before 2020 (I know, it's not very realistic though :sly.









Map of planned motorway and expressway network in Poland (Wikipedia).









Status as of end of year 2013 (Wikipedia). 
Green: in operation; Red: in construction; Grey: planned.

As you can see on the image above, in most of "S" expressways planned, construction has not yet begun. But, "A" (tolled) motorways are nearly completion :banana:.


----------



## Kemo

John Maynard said:


> I want to draw your attention that such road already exists and is part of DK 50 and 62. It's called "Duża Obwodnica Warszawy" (Large Warsaw Bypass), or "Obwodnica Tranzytowa TIR" (TIR Transit Bypass) as it's compulsory for trucks to take this route; passing through Warsaw is forbidden. However, it's not a motorway, but mostly a normal 2X1 national road that often passes through towns and villages, though some improvements were made in many areas to bypass them. The total length is ∼329 km, and its radius is between 20 and 30 km of the city's limits.


That's what I meant, upgrading this road to motorway standard is inadequate, because TIRs will be allowed to use S2/S8/(S17) Warsaw ringroad and it should easily handle the traffic than now goes through DK50/62.


----------



## mcarling

John Maynard said:


> I want to draw your attention that such road already exists and is part of DK 50 and 62. It's called "Duża Obwodnica Warszawy" (Large Warsaw Bypass), or "Obwodnica Tranzytowa TIR" (TIR Transit Bypass) as it's compulsory for trucks to take this route; passing through Warsaw is forbidden. However, it's not a motorway, but mostly a normal 2X1 national road that often passes through towns and villages, though some improvements were made in many areas to bypass them. The total length is ∼329 km, and its radius is between 20 and 30 km of the city's limits.


The big problem with the Large Warsaw Bypass is that it runs through towns and villages. By about 2050 or so, it will probably have serious capacity problems, which is why I proposed an S-class expressway.


----------



## mcarling

Kemo said:


> That's what I meant, upgrading this road to motorway standard is inadequate, because TIRs will be allowed to use S2/S8/(S17) Warsaw ringroad and it should easily handle the traffic than now goes through DK50/62.


I think that allowing the long-distance truck traffic to use the S2/S8/S17 inner ring road would be a bad idea. I think it should continue to be kept well outside the Warsaw metropolitan area.


----------



## John Maynard

ufonut said:


> In the meantime Polish regions are investing large amounts of money into "bicycle highways".
> 
> South-Eastern Poland will build 420 km of bicycle paths linking various towns and tourist attractions.
> 
> Malopolska region will build 673 km of bicycle "highways". In addition many special paths for skiers will also be created.


It's a good idea, as I am myself a biking lover ^^.

But, would be more logical if they concentrate their resources and efforts: first, to finish (or to start constructing :lol much more important 2X2 roads and expressways between big cities (still none between the Capital and Gdansk, and Krakow ); second, to improve existing Voivodeship and local roads. Then they could eventually build such "bicycle highways" .


----------



## Kemo

mcarling said:


> The big problem with the Large Warsaw Bypass is that it runs through towns and villages. By about 2050 or so, it will probably have serious capacity problems, which is why I proposed an S-class expressway.


In 2050 we might as well be using personal flying devices instead of cars so it's hard to say if upgrade of DK50 will be needed 
But for now, we simply cannot afford that.


----------



## Kanadzie

No, because Jesus is good, so it seems not so much a big deal. Now if reminded of the Devil, maybe we would pay attention


----------



## keokiracer

Iluminat said:


> Wouldn't people drive safer if they were reminded that Jesus is watching them :dunno:


I think that depends on whether you're religious or not


----------



## Iluminat

Everyone in Poland is religious :yes:


----------



## mcarling

^^
Belief in an afterlife is the best explanation I've seen yet of why so many Polish drivers overtake as they do.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Iluminat said:


> Wouldn't people drive safer if they were reminded that Jesus is watching them :dunno:


----------



## macieii

Iluminat said:


> Everyone in Poland is religious :yes:


Are you Polish ? If not, then ... change your source of information


----------



## masages21

U want me to choke? Hahahaahahahah 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## kolejorz.

macieii said:


> Are you Polish ? If not, then ... change your source of information


That was irony(?)


----------



## John Maynard

Just have a look *between 14:34 and 15:55*, hahahaha :lol: !






http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=PQ-HuOfKKvI#t=874


----------



## pmaciej7

S3 near Skwierzyna:

I. Skwierzyna West.

^ Skwierzyna, Zielona Góra ->









^ Gorzów Wielkopolski ^









^ Skwierzyna









<- Gorzów Wielkopolski, Zielona Góra ->










II. Skwierzyna South.

V Skwierzyna









^ Zielona Góra ^









^ Gorzów Wielkopolski ^









More: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=112109210&postcount=5312


----------



## Rusonaldo

Expressway S3 Międzyrzecz - Gorzów Wlkp.


----------



## CSSR

They should, instead of building all of these grade separated junctions start a less costly alternative by having a few roundabouts or at grade intersections.


----------



## JackFrost

No. They should not.


----------



## Eulanthe

CSSR said:


> They should, instead of building all of these grade separated junctions start a less costly alternative by having a few roundabouts or at grade intersections.


What on earth would be the point in that?

It would achieve nothing and would defeat the point in building a comprehensive motorway/expressway network. Most expressway junctions are built quite cheaply anyway, often with a single bridge and short sliproads.

The cost of a few grade separated junctions is pretty minimal anyway compared to the costs of building the expressways themselves. 

Anyway, money isn't that much of a problem in Poland when it comes to road building.


----------



## CSSR

Eulanthe said:


> What on earth would be the point in that?
> 
> It would achieve nothing and would defeat the point in building a comprehensive motorway/expressway network. Most expressway junctions are built quite cheaply anyway, often with a single bridge and short sliproads.
> 
> The cost of a few grade separated junctions is pretty minimal anyway compared to the costs of building the expressways themselves.
> 
> Anyway, money isn't that much of a problem in Poland when it comes to road building.


I don't mean with traffic lights or anything like that, like local roads or roads that are not very busy.


----------



## Kanadzie

CSSR said:


> I don't mean with traffic lights or anything like that, like local roads or roads that are not very busy.


Like DK roads already they build, Rondo all over the place :lol:


----------



## ufonut

S12/17/19 by *GDDKiA*



















More:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1195867&page=767


----------



## ufonut

Bypass of Jaroslaw by *GDDKiA*



















More:

http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/g/Obwodnica-Jaroslawia


----------



## Kanadzie

What the heck, must have been all the guys coming back from Wielka Brytania bringing back their crazy roundabout interchanges :lol:


----------



## macieii

CSSR said:


> They should, instead of building all of these grade separated junctions start a less costly alternative by having a few roundabouts or at grade intersections.


Troll ?


----------



## sponge_bob

bzbox said:


> How long is this bridge again?


Not very long. 

Does anyone know why the _infamous_ Mszana Bridge was deliberately designed to look VERY like the MUCH longer Millau Viaduct?? .....and which longer bridge was built faster too 

Poland. ( baby Millau Viaduct)










France (the original Millau Viaduct)


----------



## MonteChristo

Well, maybe because company that won the tender in Millau didn't start to fight the investor. Alpine won 2 tenders to finish that bridge and 2 times thay said it's impossible to build. Fortunantely law was changed.




bzbox said:


> How long is this bridge again?


380m




























source: GDDKiA

by wawrzula


----------



## MonteChristo

A4 (Zgorzelec-Krzyzowa)










S7 (Grójec-Białobrzegi)










Warszawa Południe (S2/S79)










source: GDDKiA

Torun-Most Zawackiej









by Mariusz Nasieniewski


----------



## geogregor

MonteChristo said:


> Well, maybe because company that won the tender in Millau didn't start to fight the investor. Alpine won 2 tenders to finish that bridge and 2 times thay said it's impossible to build. Fortunantely law was changed.


I know that it is popular opinion on Polish forum, that only Alpina screw and our superb and heroic road authority did everything well.

But the bridge *had to be redesigned* during the construction.

As who was guilty and how much, only time (and courts) will tell.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Mszana Bridge is not your average run-of-the-mill bridge. It is an extradosed bridge. They look like cable-stayed bridges, but the way forces are handled is different. Extradosed bridges are relatively rare. Furthermore, the bridge is located in a curve, which adds to the design complexity. While there are several smaller curved extradosed bridges (for example in Switzerland), I don't recall any curved extradosed motorway bridges.


----------



## toonczyk

^^ Also there is a smaller bridge connecting to it on one side, which adds to complexity. As far as I know it's the widest extradosed bridge in the world too and that's important -notice that the cables are only connected along the axis of the bridge.


----------



## Rusonaldo

Expressway S3 Gorzów Wielkopolski - Zielona Góra


----------



## sponge_bob

toonczyk said:


> ^^ Also there is a smaller bridge connecting to it on one side, which adds to complexity. As far as I know it's the widest extradosed bridge in the world too and that's important -notice that the cables are only connected along the axis of the bridge.


Poland also has the longest Extrados bridge (S2 width) in Europe , across the Vistula up north. It is not centre stayed though ( most Extrados bridges are side stayed or stayed off side pillars not centre pillars) and is not anywhere as seriously curved as the Mszana bridge.


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Mszana Bridge is not your average run-of-the-mill bridge. It is an extradosed bridge. They look like cable-stayed bridges, but the way forces are handled is different. Extradosed bridges are relatively rare. Furthermore, the bridge is located in a curve, which adds to the design complexity. While there are several smaller curved extradosed bridges (for example in Switzerland), I don't recall any curved extradosed motorway bridges.





toonczyk said:


> ^^ Also there is a smaller bridge connecting to it on one side, which adds to complexity. As far as I know it's the widest extradosed bridge in the world too and that's important -notice that the cables are only connected along the axis of the bridge.


I'm all aware about peculiarities of this bridge.

The question is: was it really necessary to overcomplicate its design that way? 

Here is construction of a much larger structure less than 50km to the north, over the same A1 motorway.


K4r0lSz said:


>


As you can see construction goes along quite nicely, no major drama or complication. Simple and easy structure rising fast.

I have quite strong view that Poland shouldn't be too extravagant with its bridges designs at this stage. We still have massive job to do just to fill the major gaps in our road network. 
Once the core is done we can experiment with funky designs, preferably in urban areas where someone can actually admire them.


----------



## mcarling

geogregor said:


> I have quite strong view that Poland shouldn't be too extravagant with its bridges designs at this stage. We still have massive job to do just to fill the major gaps in our road network.
> Once the core is done we can experiment with funky designs, preferably in urban areas where someone can actually admire them.


I think the eye-catching designs and colors of Poland's bridges are more important in rural areas where they help keep long-distance drivers awake and alert, though I like them in cities too.


----------



## geogregor

mcarling said:


> I think the eye-catching designs and colors of Poland's bridges are more important in rural areas where they help keep long-distance drivers awake and alert, though I like them in cities too.


Most people would probably prefer more cities connected by modern safe roads rather than eye-catching structures popping up everywhere.

Tell people in Koszalin or Suwalki that they have to wait for their S-roads but we have eye-catching bridge in Mszana or other village.

However, I think the GDDKiA practice is changing, on more recent projects (S8, S3) there are fewer eye-catching structures. Money talks


----------



## Rombi

I think it's not really about the bridges design but rather loong sound barriers especially on new stretch from Łódź to Warsaw. IMO in these projects are lost lot of money.


----------



## mcarling

geogregor said:


> Most people would probably prefer more cities connected by modern safe roads rather than eye-catching structures popping up everywhere.
> 
> Tell people in Koszalin or Suwalki that they have to wait for their S-roads but we have eye-catching bridge in Mszana or other village.
> 
> However, I think the GDDKiA practice is changing, on more recent projects (S8, S3) there are fewer eye-catching structures. Money talks


The Mszana bridge is not representative of the many beautiful and reasonably-priced bridges that have been completed on schedule.


----------



## i15

that purple colour is really ugly...


----------



## Chris80678

i15 said:


> that purple colour is really ugly...


Each to their own taste but I like the purple colour. It is different and eye-catching


----------



## Iluminat

^^It work pretty well with concrete.


----------



## Chris80678

Come May when the bridge finally opens to traffic I doubt that people will be paying much attention to the purple. Drivers will just be relieved not to have to endure the current minor roads traffic has to use to avoid the Mszana bridge at the moment


----------



## geogregor

mcarling said:


> The Mszana bridge is not representative of the many beautiful and reasonably-priced bridges that have been completed on schedule.


I'm not saying that all funky bridges go as wrong or as expensive as the Mszana epic failure but I'm 98% sure the standard, boring, off-the-shelf, designs are cheaper, apart from some selected situations where topography justifies something unusual.

Even if construction materials (steel, concrete etc) don't always cost more such structures have to be individually designed practically from scratch. More manpower in the design office, then often challenging construction techniques, often individually designed temporary support structures etc. It all doesn't come cheap or free.

Standard post-tensed beam structures can be easily tweaked for most of the situation in mostly flat country like Poland. 

I really like what they are doing on S8 from Wroclaw to Lodz. I can't think of any weird structure there but we are getting long continues stretch of great, well designed road instead.


----------



## sponge_bob

I don't want communist grey colours everywhere (like in Birmingham for example) so please keep the bright colours even if the structures are simplified and standardised a bit more.


----------



## mcarling

i15 said:


> that purple colour is really ugly...


I quite like it.



geogregor said:


> I'm not saying that all funky bridges go as wrong or as expensive as the Mszana epic failure but I'm 98% sure the standard, boring, off-the-shelf, designs are cheaper, apart from some selected situations where topography justifies something unusual.
> 
> Even if construction materials (steel, concrete etc) don't always cost more such structures have to be individually designed practically from scratch. More manpower in the design office, then often challenging construction techniques, often individually designed temporary support structures etc. It all doesn't come cheap or free.
> 
> Standard post-tensed beam structures can be easily tweaked for most of the situation in mostly flat country like Poland.


The unusual designs are also based on already solved solutions and can be tweaked in the same ways as more common and boring designs. I don't believe the cost difference (between an interesting design and a boring design) for the engineering is more than 0.01% of the total cost of the bridge, in most cases.


----------



## Janek0

mastakilla said:


> When did Poland start building motorways etc?



Wikimedia Commons


----------



## Kanadzie

My grandfather told me of the time "Hitler" wanted to put a highway through his house in Sandomierz during the war. I don't think so though, I am thinking it might have been the original II RP autostrada plan of mid 1930's instead from Wawa to Przemysl

Interestingly what I have seen of the II RP autostrada plans, they also had the "two tier" superior route system (like current autostrada vs droga ekspresowa). Anyway, the interest and need in PL for first class road network is as old as other countries, it seems only political problems (and economic conditions resulting from political problems) held it back...


----------



## mastakilla

Kanadzie said:


> My grandfather told me of the time "Hitler" wanted to put a highway through his house in Sandomierz during the war. I don't think so though, I am thinking it might have been the original II RP autostrada plan of mid 1930's instead from Wawa to Przemysl
> 
> Interestingly what I have seen of the II RP autostrada plans, they also had the "two tier" superior route system (like current autostrada vs droga ekspresowa). Anyway, the interest and need in PL for first class road network is as old as other countries, *it seems only political problems (and economic conditions resulting from political problems) held it back*...


You should be happy that there are no additional terrain problems in Poland. 
Bosnia e.g is struggling to build the first 100 km of motorways, as they have to be built through massive mountains and over canyons:lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Do they still accept US Dollars at toll stations these days?


----------



## Sylwek

ChrisZwolle said:


> Do they still accept US Dollars at toll stations these days?


PPP lots:
http://autostrada-a2.pl/en/tolls/discounts
http://autostradaa1.pl/amber-one/oplaty/formy-platnosci/?en,
http://www.autostrada-a4.pl/tolls/tolls-and-methods-of-payment

GDDKiA lots:
http://www.viatoll.pl/en/pojazdy-lekkie-system-manualny/payments-3


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I see, so GDDKiA does not accept USD, but the concession companies do. 

Who would pay with USD? Truckers from eastern (non-EU) Europe?


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Who would pay with USD? Truckers from eastern (non-EU) Europe?


Yes, USD are still very common in Eastern Europe. Introduction of EUR changed a lot, but the further to the east, the less important it is.

BTW, 10-15 years ago prices of land around Warsaw for housing development were given in USD...


----------



## Sylwek

ChrisZwolle said:


> I see, so GDDKiA does not accept USD, but the concession companies do.
> 
> Who would pay with USD? Truckers from eastern (non-EU) Europe?


It's only for cars. Every truck ≥ 3,5 and every car with trailer (over 3,5 t. combination) must use viabox.


----------



## cinxxx

Jakub Warszauer said:


> Yes, USD are still very common in Eastern Europe. Introduction of EUR changed a lot, but the further to the east, the less important it is.
> 
> BTW, 10-15 years ago prices of land around Warsaw for housing development were given in USD...


I know in Romania, for example, many transactions, like buying a car or apartment or second hand other stuff, was done in Deutsche Mark. USD was also used but not that often. After EURO was "born" everything changed to it.


----------



## Kemo

Construction of S8 Raszyn bypass starts:



Matss said:


>


----------



## Eulanthe

Jakub Warszauer said:


> Yes, USD are still very common in Eastern Europe. Introduction of EUR changed a lot, but the further to the east, the less important it is.
> 
> BTW, 10-15 years ago prices of land around Warsaw for housing development were given in USD...


Yes, in Ukraine, Russia and Belarus, the USD is still king. I have a friend who is paid in USD every month - they have mostly American clients, and the money is paid into a Polish USD account rather than risk transferring USD into the unstable Ukrainian banking system. Strangely enough, the Euro hasn't taken much of a hold, not even in L'viv. 

I've noticed that commercial property in Poland still tends to be priced in Euro rather than Zloty for higher end developments. I've also seen some properties (kamienicas in particular) priced in Euro. But it's certainly not common.

As for Poland and the amount of roads, it's worth bearing in mind that Croatia poured a hell of a lot of money into the A1 as a prestige project. Quite a lot of the A3 was already built in Yugoslavia, and the other motorways aren't very long. Serbia too benefitted from the "Highway of Brotherhood and Unity" being constructed in Yugoslav times, as well as gaining hugely from the "foreigner" tolls levied on the main North-South motorway. 

Interestingly, in Yugoslavia too, the DM was king, not the USD. But not in Poland, I wonder why?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Eulanthe said:


> Interestingly, in Yugoslavia too, the DM was king, not the USD. But not in Poland, I wonder why?


Perhaps Yugoslavia was less closed to foreign (western) investment than Poland in communist times. Back in the 1980s Yugoslavia was quite a popular tourist destination for Germans.


----------



## mcarling

Eulanthe said:


> Interestingly, in Yugoslavia too, the DM was king, not the USD. But not in Poland, I wonder why?


The reason why the USD was king in Poland during the occupation is that tens of thousands of Polish Americans retired in Poland and received American pensions in USD.


----------



## MonteChristo

ChrisZwolle said:


> Perhaps Yugoslavia was less closed to foreign (western) investment than Poland in communist times. Back in the 1980s Yugoslavia was quite a popular tourist destination for Germans.


And they had cheap western credits?


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

15 years ago in Serbia the main currency was German Mark,even we had "Dinars" many people were using German Mark.
( "Dinars" are our national currency )


----------



## Janek0

Sylwek said:


> It's only for cars. Every truck ≥ 3,5 and every car with trailer (over 3,5 t. combination) must use viabox.


No, they do not need to have and may not use viaBOX on concession companies sections.


----------



## Eulanthe

mcarling said:


> The reason why the USD was king in Poland during the occupation is that tens of thousands of Polish Americans retired in Poland and received American pensions in USD.


Was it really so many? 

USD being sent is understandable, but I've never heard about any significant emigration from the US to the PRL by retired people.


----------



## Kanadzie

Yeah it would seem low, after spending so much work to get out of PRL how could one go back, mind you was excellent tourist destination if you had some USD in pocket near the end and made sure to not rent your own hotel (rather get someone local to rent in their name in PLZ)


----------



## mcarling

Think about how a Polish-American with 500 or 1000 USD per month was able to live in the 1970s in Poland versus the USA. One could either be insanely wealthy in Poland or barely able to buy food in the USA. Many retired in Poland. I was told by one of them that it was tens of thousands, but I don't have any verifiable sources. It seems right to me.


----------



## mcarling

Does anyone know how exactly they plan to build the A1 between Piotrkow Trybunalski and Czestochowa? It seems to me that traffic is too heavy to divert both directions onto one carriageway while they rebuild the other. Once they have one three-lane carriageway, then that could temporarily carry 2+2 traffic while they build the second new carriageway.


----------



## Kemo

mcarling said:


> Does anyone know how exactly they plan to build the A1 between Piotrkow Trybunalski and Czestochowa? It seems to me that traffic is too heavy to divert both directions onto one carriageway while they rebuild the other.


There is no other option - they modernised S8 the same way.
But remember that there is a parallel route - DK91, which can handle some of the traffic, so it won't be that bad.


----------



## mcarling

Kemo said:


> There is no other option - they modernised S8 the same way.
> But remember that there is a parallel route - DK91, which can handle some of the traffic, so it won't be that bad.


I remember what a complete mess the route was during S8 construction. If they shift all the trucks onto the DK91 during construction of the first new carriageway, perhaps they could allow 2+2 with narrow lanes on the other old carriageway. Once the first new carriageway has been completed, that should support wider 2+2 lanes so they could allow the trucks back.

There is an alternative. They could construct the first new carriageway immediately adjacent to the existing road. Then remove both the old carriageways and build the second new carriageway. They could even open the first new carriageway one-way with it's final lane layout and remove only the furthest carriageway to build the new second carriageway. Then, finally, remove the remaining old carriageway from between the two new carriageways after both have been completed. That would result in a wide median with ample space to add a fourth lane in the future.


----------



## Sylwek

Janek0 said:


> No, they do not need to have and may not use viaBOX on concession companies sections.


Read it (left frame):
http://www.viatoll.pl/en


----------



## m_rocco

mcarling said:


> I remember what a complete mess the route was during S8 construction. If they shift all the trucks onto the DK91 during construction of the first new carriageway, perhaps they could allow 2+2 with narrow lanes on the other old carriageway. Once the first new carriageway has been completed, that should support wider 2+2 lanes so they could allow the trucks back. There is an alternative. They could construct the first new carriageway immediately adjacent to the existing road. Then remove both the old carriageways and build the second new carriageway. They could even open the first new carriageway one-way with it's final lane layout and remove only the furthest carriageway to build the new second carriageway. Then, finally, remove the remaining old carriageway from between the two new carriageways after both have been completed. That would result in a wide median with ample space to add a fourth lane in the future.


While rebuilding S8 i remember works for 80km! It would be also good, in my opinion, building first intersections (Czestochowa,Kamiensk,Radomsko) and then rebuild section by section. The longest would be Czestochowa-Radomsko, almost 40km. One carriageway for rebuilding, one for cars, trucks on DK91. But I think trucks re-route on DK91 would be a nightmare for people living along that road


----------



## Janek0

Sylwek said:


> Read it (left frame):
> http://www.viatoll.pl/en


This website applies only to roads managed by GDDKiA ("viaTOLL network"). http://www.viatoll.pl/en/heavy-vehicles/map


----------



## JanVL

Nice picture of the Sośnica Interchange (A1 & A4)










https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...95358636.13588.111343195550836&type=1&theater


----------



## Sylwek

Janek0 You're right . My mistake.


----------



## Daniel749

*New sections of motorways and expressways & bypasses of national roads realized over the years 2014–2020*


----------



## Kemo

Southern quarter of Łódź ringroad (*S8* & *S14*) will open this Friday.


----------



## Kemo

Driving in the Silesian metropolis:





0:00 - streets of Gliwice
1:47 - streets of Zabrze
*2:35 - DTŚ expressway (DW902)*
4:04 - streets of Chorzów
4:53 - DK79 Katowice - Chorzów - Bytom
5:54 - DW911 Bytom ringroad
6:21 - "Piekary Śląskie" interchange
6:34 - A1 motorway
6:45 - "Bytom" interchange
6:54 - streets of Bytom
8:01 - DK78 Bytom - Tarnowskie Góry


----------



## sponge_bob

The Famous GDDKia court case in Dublin has finally been reported.

http://www.courts.ie/Judgments.nsf/...df8bc6b1d25d25a580257cb40051c0d2?OpenDocument


----------



## MonteChristo

Do I understand right? *In 2019 A4 from Wrocław to Zgorzelec will be modernised to 2x3?*










http://wroclaw.gazeta.pl/wroclaw/1,...a_A4_szersza_i_platna__ale_za_siedem_lat.html



*Silesian Metropolis will get new bypass- A4-bis?*










http://katowice.gazeta.pl/katowice/..._obwodnicy_metropolii__Bedzie_autostrada.html


----------



## Kemo

MonteChristo said:


> Do I understand right? *In 2019 A4 from Wrocław to Zgorzelec will be modernised to 2x3?*


2x3 will probably be only on section Wrocław - Legnica or even shorter - Wrocław - Kostomłoty. But 2019 doesn't seem realistic. 

*Silesian Metropolis will get new bypass- A4-bis?*[/QUOTE]Yes. In 30 years or so  At the moment it is science-fiction.


----------



## Strzala

*S12/17/19 Lublin bypass under construction status:*



JinMao said:


> angielski wersja alfa P.S. Zastanawiałem się nad zaproponowanym wyszczególnieniem prac przy obiektach inżynierskich i sam nie wiem czy na tym etapie prac nad obwodnicą ma to jeszcze sens. W przypadku ZOL nie mam wątpliwości, że ma sens.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Are those the official exit names to appear on the signs?


----------



## Kemo

Yes.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Oh man, the powers that be need to take this noise barrier circus more serious. If this goes on the whole country disappears behind noise barriers. Such a shame.



tomekwrz said:


> DW786 po przebudowie. Odcinek Promnik - Micigózd. Przyjrzyjmy się ekranom.
> 
> 1. Zielone to ekrany. Czerwone - początki OZ. Czarne - końce OZ. Jak widać cała wschodnia strona pomiędzy miejscowościami ma ekrany mimo, że jest to około 800 metrów obszaru niezabudowanego. Orientacja mapy prawidłowa. Na dole południe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Zobaczmy jak to wygląda w praktyce. Jadę w kierunku południowym
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Koniec OZ - po prawej zaczynają się ekrany. Za nimi pustka.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Jestem teraz u końca ekranów po prawej widocznych ze zdjęci powyżej. Patrzę na zachód.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Idę tam. Chcę się mylić i zobaczyć, że te ekrany coś chronią. Patrzę na północ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6. Patrzę na południe. Te domy daleko nie leżą wzdłuż tej drogi tylko poprzecznej. Oddalone o około 600 metrów.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 7. Jadę dalej.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8. Tutaj rozpoczyna się Micigózd. Obszar zabudowany w 90% po prawej stronie co widać na poniższym zdjęciu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dramat. :nuts:


----------



## rakcancer

^^ No comments...


----------



## devo

Insane!


----------



## Vanaheim

This is insane:



















:nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What on earth is this? This is one of the more stupid things you'll see in the Netherlands. And now Poland too...



Polex said:


> Ten sposób na wszystkich ulicach znacząco wpłynąłby na poprawę BRD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jest też "instrukcja obsługi"


----------



## ka__zet

ChrisZwolle said:


> What on earth is this? This is one of the more stupid things you'll see in the Netherlands. And now Poland too...


Normal traffic calming measures. Way too many signs instead of doing "30 zone" but apart from that, nothing stupid.


----------



## keokiracer

ka__zet said:


> Normal ... nothing stupid.


It seems our opinions vary dramatically on this. This is just ridiculous.
Why is that road 30 km/h anyway?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ka__zet said:


> Normal traffic calming measures. Way too many signs instead of doing "30 zone" but apart from that, nothing stupid.


This is not normal, it's ridiculous. Apart from the question whether this road actually needs a 30 km/h speed limit, you don't need 8 of such obstacles. This is over-engineered and a waste of money because it needs more repairs. It's a road, not an obstacle course.


----------



## MonteChristo

it's idiotic...


----------



## Iluminat

Isn't it the best way to avoid more accidents :dunno: Much more effective than another "black point" or information campaign.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Is there a street view link of this location?


----------



## MonteChristo

:dunno: Forumers from Warsaw should help. I've just read that according to them it was popular place for night races.


----------



## ka__zet

ChrisZwolle said:


> Apart from the question whether this road actually needs a 30 km/h speed limit, you don't need 8 of such obstacles.


You might be right about overengineering. On the other hand, there is an issue of Poligh drivers which are using that road.

The street is Wał Zawadowski, Warsaw, Poland. Street view photos seem to be older, though.


----------



## keokiracer

ka__zet said:


> The street is Wał Zawadowski, Warsaw, Poland. Street view photos seem to be older, though.


For other people: https://maps.google.nl/maps?q=Wał+Z...=YVmdHfeP0uENKrXgSdaOOQ&cbp=12,333.34,,0,1.75

And Streetview is always older. Streetview-images are from 2011.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

ChrisZwolle said:


> What on earth is this? This is one of the more stupid things you'll see in the Netherlands. And now Poland too...


This stupidity has made its way to Poland... WHY?!?!? Also looking at the link keokiracer posted why was any of this done? That road is empty and there is nothing on it. What justifies a 30km/h speed limit and now the over engineered ridiculousness?


----------



## Kanadzie

Iluminat said:


> Isn't it the best way to avoid more accidents :dunno: Much more effective than another "black point" or information campaign.


How? Normally the road, you can drive 200 km/h and not crash. But now, if you drive even 20 km/h, you will either crash post on the side and die, or crash head-on other car and also die. What safety?! :lol:


----------



## rav00

Iluminat said:


> Isn't it the best way to avoid more accidents :dunno: Much more effective than another "black point" or information campaign.


The best way is to block the road completely. No accidents then...


----------



## LMB

ka__zet said:


> Normal traffic calming measures. Way too many signs instead of doing "30 zone" but apart from that, nothing stupid.


This pic has actually very long depth, look at the reailway "milestones" on the right.


----------



## LMB

I-275westcoastfl said:


> This stupidity has made its way to Poland... WHY?!?!? Also looking at the link keokiracer posted why was any of this done? That road is empty and there is nothing on it. What justifies a 30km/h speed limit and now the over engineered ridiculousness?


In American English: 

Because some ******** organized NASCAR-style racing there. "Non academic sport centered around ********" :lol:


----------



## geogregor

LMB said:


> In American English:
> 
> Because some ******** organized NASCAR-style racing there. "Non academic sport centered around ********" :lol:


Last time I heard we had police force in Poland. It is their job to punish such idiots.
Otherwise we'll end up as a country with traffic sign on every meter of road and calming measure on every second meter.

But no, they prefer to chase old grannies crossing local streets in the wrong places or chasing "speeding" cyclists in some cities.


----------



## Beck's

> calming measure on every second meter.


It's very good way to force drivers to obey the speed limit.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A speed limit that fits the road would be even better.

You don't fix a poor design with road signs and unrealistically low speed limits. 

30 km/h zones should be reserved for streets with sidewalks, streetside parking, narrow lanes, children playing, houses directly alongside, etc. Not some half-rural road with a political speed limit.


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

LMB said:


> In American English:
> 
> Because some ******** organized NASCAR-style racing there. "Non academic sport centered around ********" :lol:


When I was in Warsaw I saw people street race right in the city center, literally by the central train station and Palace of Culture. Yet they are concerned about a road that has very little traffic and very few people living along it. When did Poland start acting like America? What a waste of money.


----------



## Kanadzie

I guess, Poland is so rich now they are not sure what to do... I mean everyone drinks water out of bottles, hell I drive Mercedes but no way I could be rich enough to drink water only from bottle :lol: gazowana or nie 

In Warsaw the roads are so nice and wide generally probably they aren't actually racing. I noticed a couple times just roaming around that I was at 100 km/h without noticing. I did notice after I saw the fotoradar sign 

But that particular road along the tracks is just crazy. I mean, even 50 limit seems wrong. Probably should be a 70 zone, but instead, obstacle course?! Clearly no noise issue as it is next to train tracks, and no pedestrian issue, and only a few driveways on one side only (so again, no real issue)


----------



## ka__zet

Or many, many questions about specification.


----------



## geogregor

ka__zet said:


> Or many, many questions about specification.


Precisely, bidders have plenty of questions about details of the tender. GDDKiA is literally flooded with questions. 
The same story with choosing company to finish the A4 after kicking out the previous contractor (the infamous Polimex)

I guess it might indicate either that the particular tender process was badly prepared or it is symptom of wider problem that in Poland everyone has to double cover his/her ass when dealing with the state bureaucracy.


----------



## Kemo

Flooded construction site of Żywiec bypass (DW945):









Week ago:









More photos by jacek2929


----------



## Don Vito KurDeBalanz

Map of Polish roads updated to 15th of May with newly open stretch of S3.
Thank to @Igorsel 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81380146/mapka-igorsel.png


----------



## DSzumaher

The first minutes of the opened stretch from yesterday.





Note: long edit.


----------



## Eulanthe

geogregor said:


> Precisely, bidders have plenty of questions about details of the tender. GDDKiA is literally flooded with questions.
> The same story with choosing company to finish the A4 after kicking out the previous contractor (the infamous Polimex)
> 
> I guess it might indicate either that the particular tender process was badly prepared or it is symptom of wider problem that in Poland everyone has to double cover his/her ass when dealing with the state bureaucracy.


Either that, or it's a sign that construction companies have finally learnt that the GDDKiA won't bail them out if they bid too low. 

Having said this, I can talk about several severe cases of sheer incompetence involving foreign building companies, but sadly not in public. It seems that foreign companies in Poland still haven't learnt that Poles will hold them to account.


----------



## geogregor

Eulanthe said:


> Having said this, I can talk about several severe cases of sheer incompetence involving foreign building companies, but sadly not in public. It seems that foreign companies in Poland still haven't learnt that Poles will hold them to account.


So, all the problems with the delays in Polish road building projects are due to the "bloody foreigners". If not them it would be all perfect. Right. :|

Seriously, I think there is guilt on both sides. Sure there are cases where new entrants to our market are completely unrealistic and don't have any local knowledge but equally tenders are sometimes not precise enough, there were cases of badly done geological research etc.


----------



## John Maynard

geogregor said:


> So, all the problems with the delays in Polish road building projects are due to the "bloody foreigners". If not them it would be all perfect. Right. :|


But, on the other side, there is little to no complain about "bloody foreigners" aka EU when it comes to massive subvention money :lol:.


----------



## baderman

John Maynard said:


> But, on the other side, there is little to no complain about "bloody foreigners" aka EU when it comes to massive subvention money :lol:.


Same when we're paying our eu budget contribution, isn't it?


----------



## sponge_bob

baderman said:


> Same when we're paying our eu budget contribution, isn't it?


Good Foreigner= Writes Big EuroCheque and gives it to GDkkia
Bad Foreigner= Asks GDDKia to write out a cheque and give it to them.

Simple really

Mind you GDDKia have bankrupted most of the large Polish civil engineers like Polimex as well. They are very equal opportunities. 



Don Vito KurDeBalanz said:


> Map of Polish roads updated to 15th of May with newly open stretch of S3.
> Thank to @Igorsel
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...ka-igorsel.png


It must be me but that map looks very 'Green' compared to this time last year. Green maps are good.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Don Vito KurDeBalanz said:


> Map of Polish roads updated to 15th of May with newly open stretch of S3.
> Thank to @Igorsel
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81380146/mapka-igorsel.png


What is the difference with this map? http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/

The siskom map looks more professional in my opinion.


----------



## toonczyk

^^ Those are two maps developed independently on Polish board. Map by IgorSel is based on an old map that's been in circulation for a looong time. 5 years ago Moloch started working on a new map, it evolved over time into what's now available on ssc.siskom.waw.pl. Both maps have a lot of information about A+S roads, IgorSel's map includes new DK roads too. Both are updated regularly, so it's just a matter of preference.


----------



## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> The siskom map looks more professional in my opinion.


But it has far less details.


----------



## MichiH

^^ But it is in English.


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> What is the difference with this map? http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/
> 
> The siskom map looks more professional in my opinion.


Just for clarification: the map is elaborated by SSC community. SISKOM as an NGO provides its servers.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

When is A4 going to be completed?


----------



## MichiH

^^ No one knows, "Pascal". At earliest 2015.


----------



## John Maynard

baderman said:


> Same when we're paying our eu budget contribution, isn't it?


:lol: Paying 1€ to receive 5€ from EU in exchange; now we know who is the
:banana:*"biggest beneficiary of EU funds"*:banana:

:grass: It's Poland!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Poland is only the biggest beneficiary in absolute figures because it is by far the largest newer EU country in terms of population, having twice as many people as the next biggest newer EU member Romania. Poland's net benefit from the EU per capita is not as high as is portrayed in the media. It ranked 8th in the 2009 budget.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_the_European_Union


----------



## John Maynard

Since, Poland is getting more and more of the EU budget.
Over the next six years Poland will be the biggest EU funds beneficiary among all the member states, not only the biggest beneficiary of the Cohesion funds alone as has been the case so far.

For 2014-2020, Poland is by far the first recipient of EU funds, by getting nearly 106 bln € of the EU budget.
http://msp.gov.pl/en/polish-economy/economic-news/4015,dok.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Again, this is due to the population size of Poland (more than 38 million people). The per capita figures are very different. 

€ 106 billion sounds like an extreme amount of money, but

* is a gross budget (including the contribution of Poland to the EU)
* is over a 7-year period
* is 3% of current annual GDP (net)

The Dutch government spends that kind of money in 5 months.


----------



## John Maynard

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Dutch government spends that kind of money in 5 months.


So why almost every road work, motorways/expressways, constructions, trains and stations, renovations, etc. has the EU fund contribution panel displayed on their site; if it's only "peanuts", maybe better to stop all these EU funds as it will affect "very very little"?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I'm not claiming that, just pointing out the huge amounts of money must be seen in context. EU funding certainly has a positive impact on Poland, but also on other EU countries as trade with Poland continues to increase due to the high demand of goods in Poland. Therefore, economic growth of Poland also benefits other EU members. For example, Dutch exports to Poland increased by nearly 30% since the start of the recession.


----------



## plus ratio quam vis

John Maynard said:


> :lol: Paying 1€ to receive 5€ from EU in exchange; now we know who is the
> :banana:*"biggest beneficiary of EU funds"*:banana:
> 
> :grass: It's Poland!


Cheap labour and subcontractors, 38 mln open market for developed foreign manufacturers and traders, law regulations that force Polish government and business to spend money on certain purposes. 

Giving Poland some money it's not a mercy of west European countries. It's a great, lucrative investment for them. 
At the end of political and economic changes Poland will become boring, stable, cooperative country which will increase safety of European countries. 

EU funds is a good thing for Poland but even better for donators (investors).


----------



## sponge_bob

John Maynard said:


> Over the next six years Poland will be the biggest EU funds beneficiary among all the member states, not only the biggest beneficiary of the Cohesion funds alone as has been the case so far.


That has been known for months and has often been mentioned around this forum ( not just in this thread) . I don't see what is controversial about it given Polands 'absorbtion capacity' ...a proxy for compliance with EU rules. 

Poland can absorb twice as much of its allocation as Romania. To put it in perspective if Poland is allocated €103bn across all funds ( Cohesion/ Social etc) it would be expected to net €60bn+ ....Romania would net less than €30bn out of €103bn based on past performance. 

Poland did rather well during the last 7 year funding plan too.


----------



## MAG

Unfortunately, there has not been much progress in the last week in completing construction work on viaduct MA-532 (southern A1) due to adverse weather conditions affecting this part of Central Europe. We’ve had a fair bit of incessant rain with flooding taking place near larger rivers. 

Nevertheless, the surface course has been put down and compacted on MA-532, so at least we are moving in the right direction, one step at a time. The good news is that this coming week we expect much drier weather in southern Poland, so there is high expectation that road markings will be painted any day now. After that, it is really down to securing relevant conformance and release certificates and then, finally, off we go.










Copyright *hiob*
Picture of MA-532 taken on 15 May 2014



.


----------



## Chris80678

Oh dear hno: I fear that these floods in the Małopolska region of Poland will delay major and priority projects even further now

For example the A4 Tarnów - Dębica
(scheduled for opening Nov 2014) and the S69 Bielsko Biała - Żywiec

However these floods are typical at this time of year in Poland


----------



## Haveblue

For now there was no major damage in Lubella region (Lublin's S17/S19 bypass I mean).

Not sure about the very south of Poland though.


----------



## MAG

Looks like they are going to paint road markings this week, if the weather holds up. As you can see, guidelines are already done, so fingers crossed. 

I am getting my crate of beer and barbecue supplies sorted out today, so I don't miss out on the big day. 










Copyright *zielaczek*
Picture taken yesterday, 18 May 2014



.


----------



## Chris80678

I am sure a lot of people will be celebrating when the Mszana bridge (MA-532) finally opens to traffic especially those affected by heavy traffic on the current diversionary route :cheers:

As a side note Mota Engil” Kraków i „Himmel & Papesch” Opole have both been chosen to build the Nysa ring road (DK46) which is due for completion in 2017 

http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/15015/Wybrano-wykonawce-obwodnicy-Nysy


----------



## Kemo

So apparently the Mszana bridge will be opened this Friday.


----------



## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> So apparently the Mszana bridge will be opened this Friday.


I'll believe that when I see it. That means they must have done the line painting on the road surface then


----------



## kmieciu

[A1] Mszana bridge



nec said:


> Wiadomość z ostatniej chwili: most jeszcze nieprzejezdny
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Godzina 19.00 i parę ludzików się kręciło na moście i coś kończyło.


----------



## Surel

Kemo said:


> So apparently the Mszana bridge will be opened this Friday.


That would be great :cheers:! As I should be driving there next week :banana:.


----------



## Blackraven

MAG said:


> Looks like they are going to paint road markings this week, if the weather holds up. As you can see, guidelines are already done, so fingers crossed.
> 
> I am getting my crate of beer and barbecue supplies sorted out today, so I don't miss out on the big day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Copyright *zielaczek*
> Picture taken yesterday, 18 May 2014
> 
> 
> 
> .


Mszana Bridge = The Purple/Violet Bridge in Poland


----------



## ChrisZwolle

How do they decide what colors bridges get? Some are really kindergarten.


----------



## Urbanista1

us Poles like very slutty colours for some reason, I don't get it, it's like going to a Polish wedding in the 90's, oy!


----------



## Kanadzie

The use of the red and white reflector sticks instead of the black and white sticks elsewhere in Europe makes up for it


----------



## RipleyLV

ChrisZwolle said:


> How do they decide what colors bridges get? Some are really kindergarten.


Slovak designers. :dunno:


----------



## SRC_100

Why do you think it`s because of Slovak designers?
I think it happened (and will be_upgraded) because of grey world in Poland during communist time, and Poles want to compensate this time. What`s more, the bridges are not the biggest problem. Take a look on colours palette of upgraded commieblocks


----------



## x-type

who are concessionaires of A4? it has really weird system of tolling. last week i was surprised by really low rate at Katowice - Wrocław section (0,025€/km), but also with really high rates at Katowice - Kraków section (0,07€/km).

also, tolling managment is really bad. at Mysłowice toll station i was stuck in 3 km row, and only 7 exits were opened. in opposite directions there were also 7 exits, for light medium traffic. when i was going back, situation at Kraków toll station was even worse, cca 5 km jam, and again similar situation with number of exits :dunno:


----------



## MonteChristo

Krakow-Katowice : Stalexport. Self-governments (Malopolskie Voivodeship and Silesian Voivodeship) want to kick them out and take over managment of it.

Self-governments want to make it 2x3 all the way from Krakow to Katowice.

Katowice-Wroclaw: GDDKiA (General Directorate for National Roads and Motorways)



Good news is that toll stations will disappear soon. GDDKiA wants to introduce electronic payment system in whole country.


----------



## x-type

dissappear? and what about current work at Katowice - Kraków toll stations? i thought they were implementing some electronic wolling like Telepass.

and Katowice - Wrocław tolling has been introducet recently, not? maybe 1 or 2 years ago.


----------



## mcarling

MonteChristo said:


> Good news is that toll stations will disappear soon. GDDKiA wants to introduce electronic payment system in whole country.


Good! :cheers:

Toll booths are an anachronism which should not have outlived the 20th century.


----------



## MonteChristo

There will be one electronic payment system in the whole country (there are talks with private concessionaires-however payments will be the same hno. They want to start it in 2016.










I think payment between Wroclaw and Katowice was introduced in 2012


----------



## Eulanthe

x-type said:


> who are concessionaires of A4? it has really weird system of tolling. last week i was surprised by really low rate at Katowice - Wrocław section (0,025€/km), but also with really high rates at Katowice - Kraków section (0,07€/km).


The GDDKiA owned motorways are quite cheap - it's because (as far as I remember) - the EU wouldn't allow them to charge anything other than an amount to pay for ongoing maintenance as they were funded with EU money. The ones that were built privately (A2 Swiecko-Konin, A4 Katowice-Krakow) can charge what they like, so they do. 



> also, tolling managment is really bad. at Mysłowice toll station i was stuck in 3 km row, and only 7 exits were opened. in opposite directions there were also 7 exits, for light medium traffic. when i was going back, situation at Kraków toll station was even worse, cca 5 km jam, and again similar situation with number of exits :dunno:


Tolling is an absolute disaster in some areas. The A4 toll stations are a mess in general - 5-10km jams approaching the toll stations aren't abnormal, especially near Wroclaw and Katowice. The stations were built far, far, far too small to cope with demand. 

I'm not enthusiastic about the new e-toll plan. It'll do away with the queues at toll booths, but it will also make it incredibly easy to extend the system to expressways. Right now, the expressway design doesn't lend itself to anything other than barrier tolls - but with e-tolling, that problem vanishes. 

Living in the north of Poznan, I can't say that I'm particularly happy to pay 120zl for a box that I'll barely use as well. I never go East, and most of my trips are either to Berlin or to Wroclaw. Berlin is about 100km of tolled motorway, and Poznan-Wroclaw-Kudowa is toll free.


----------



## Kanadzie

Why don't they just add "video toll" like in Canada, if you use roads frequently you buy transponder, if not, they take picture of plate and send you a bill in mail (higher price)

120 PLN seems way high for the box too...


----------



## Janek0

x-type said:


> and Katowice - Wrocław tolling has been introducet recently, not? maybe 1 or 2 years ago.


Yup, and GDDKiA has just cancelled tender for the expansion of toll plazas.



MonteChristo said:


> Krakow-Katowice : Stalexport. Self-governments (Malopolskie Voivodeship and Silesian Voivodeship) want to kick them out and take over managment of it.
> 
> Self-governments want to make it 2x3 all the way from Krakow to Katowice.


But this is only a pipe dream of the head of local government. The concession will expire in 2027.



Eulanthe said:


> The GDDKiA owned motorways are quite cheap - it's because (as far as I remember) - the EU wouldn't allow them to charge anything other than an amount to pay for ongoing maintenance as they were funded with EU money. The ones that were built privately (A2 Swiecko-Konin, A4 Katowice-Krakow) can charge what they like, so they do.


This is not entirely true. A4 Katowice-Kraków was not built privately, but under the previous regime in the 80s. The same applies to the section A2 Września-Konin. In the end, GDDKiA toll motorways (I'm not talking about the charges for heavy vehicles) were built over five years ago, and the EU does not have anything to say on the fees for them.



Eulanthe said:


> Right now, the expressway design doesn't lend itself to anything other than barrier tolls - but with e-tolling, that problem vanishes.


Some do, e.g. S3 Szczecin-Gorzów with trumpet-shaped junctions.



Eulanthe said:


> Living in the north of Poznan, I can't say that I'm particularly happy to pay 120zl for a box that I'll barely use as well. I never go East, and most of my trips are either to Berlin or to Wroclaw. Berlin is about 100km of tolled motorway, and Poznan-Wroclaw-Kudowa is toll free.


That is why probably it will be possible to pay in advance, with the trip planning tool available on-line, terminals at gas stations etc. (solution similar to that in Germany for trucks).



Kanadzie said:


> Why don't they just add "video toll" like in Canada, if you use roads frequently you buy transponder, if not, they take picture of plate and send you a bill in mail (higher price)


Probably because of poor debt collection, especially considering the large share of foreign drivers (non-EU).


----------



## Strzala

*S12/S17/S19 Lublin bypass:*











*700 metres lenght subsidence section in 'Dolina Ciemięgi' (on section 2: Lublin Jastków-Lublin Sławinek 7,7 kilometres lenght) is under repair:*




>




*Section 3 from junction Lublin Sławinek - to junction Lublin Rudnik - 10,2 kilometres lenght two three-lane roadway (2x3):*




>


 
*Section 4 from junction Lublin Rudnik - to junction Lublin Felin - 12,8 kilometres lenght two two-lanes roadways (2x2):*





>


*All photos from Krzysztof Nalewajko (GDDKiA)*

More photos


----------



## Chris80678

Realistically when can we expect to see the entire length of the Lublin bypass open to traffic?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

http://i.imgur.com/RdbpLaI.jpg

Interesting...


----------



## Chris80678

ChrisZwolle said:


> http://i.imgur.com/RdbpLaI.jpg
> 
> Interesting...


Yeah - what is this and what is it for?


----------



## geogregor

Chris80678 said:


> Yeah - what is this and what is it for?


It is special high grade styrofoam. They use it to make embankment lighter than made of soil and that way to reduce pressure on the ground below.
All this to reduce subsiding.


----------



## Haveblue

Chris80678 said:


> Realistically when can we expect to see the entire length of the Lublin bypass open to traffic?


I say - October this year.

It appears to me that Budimex is going to finish their repair works in about month or 6 weeks (on Lublin bypass part No2), but Dragados (present on on Lublin bypass part No3 and 4) is just not making any significant progress and in my view their works will linger far beyond June 2014 (what is already an annexed date).

I therefore see no further justification for not imposing a penalty on them.


----------



## Chris80678

"but Dragados (present on on Lublin bypass part No3 and 4) is just not making any significant progress and in my view their works will linger far beyond June 2014 (what is already an annexed date).

I therefore see no further justification for not imposing a penalty on them" hno:

Kicking Dragados off parts 3 and 4 will only delay the completion and opening further


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kraków rejected a bid to organize the 2022 Winter Olympics in a referendum. A large majority voted against Kraków 2022.

This could mean the upgrade of infrastructure to and around Zakopane will be delayed. On the other hand, rejecting the bid is understandable given the high cost and low benefit of organizing such an event. Most of the sport facilities remain unused after the Olympics.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

When is the Lublin bypass going to be completed ?


----------



## Haveblue

Chris80678 said:


> Kicking Dragados off parts 3 and 4 will only delay the completion and opening further


No one says about kicking them out. It is about penalty, not referral.


----------



## Chris80678

Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> When is the Lublin bypass going to be completed ?


As Haveblue said we are probably looking at October for completion of the entire Lublin bypass and then probably end of 2014 by the time licences are issued for it's use


----------



## Kemo

Deconstruction of an old bridge in Żywiec + construction of the town bypass in the background:



grm1 said:


> A ja skomponowałem coś takiego Miłego oglądania - koniecznie w 1080p


They are going to build a new arc bridge here:


----------



## x-type

road 81










i really enjoyed driving on this road. quality is perfect, the only problem make many speed camera (although speed limits are more than correct, so it shouldn't be a problem). 
problem is directional signalization. you simply must know everything, or to drive with GPS. as this was my first time in Poland and my GPS was broken so i used map, i ended up in center of Katowice instead of A4 direction Wrocław 










why? because at Żory they sign A1, but with completely stupid destinations (they sign Łódź, but not Gliwice, which shoud imo definitely be put as main destination beside Łódź there).
in Mikołów they sign Opole and Gliwice, but almost at the end of very long left turning lane. if you were in rightmost lane as me, not way to catch left turning. ok, no problem for me, i will catch A4 in Katowice. but there you can not find signs for Wrocław. at the place where you should catch A4 turning you have this sign :lol:
finally in the center of Katowice there were some signs to A4 so i found it 









they must do something with this...









my destination


----------



## Kemo

*DTŚ with painted lanes:*

(Photos by *Kuban*)


















*S8 Łask - Róża prepared for opening:*

(Photos by *fazi10*)


















*Upgrade of old concrete S3 near Szczecin and construction of a new junction:*

(Photos by *JacYk*)


----------



## MonteChristo

MOP Kłaj/Stanisławice A4 (Between Kraków and Tarnów)

2x BP and 2x Mcdonalds

by igorlan


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I noticed that S3 Szczecin - Gorzów Wielkopolski had like 3 or 4 McDonald's restaurants.


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> I noticed that S3 Szczecin - Gorzów Wielkopolski had like 3 or 4 McDonald's restaurants.


and at least 2 of them at A4 Katowice - Wrocław


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

Also,when i was in Poland i saw a big number of Burger King's on motorway's in Poland.


----------



## Chris80678

http://i.imgur.com/mPoHySz.jpg

I wonder why they chose to put Wadlew on the sign when it is just a village hno: 

Would it not have been better to put Piotrków Trb (unalski)? :cheers: which is the next major town on DK12 heading south of the S8?

I wasn't aware that the S8 between Łask and Róża was going to open so soon


----------



## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> I noticed that S3 Szczecin - Gorzów Wielkopolski had like 3 or 4 McDonald's restaurants.


Well, say what you will about McDonald's, but it's cheap and vast majority of people enjoy the food there. I don't eat meat so I'm not too happy about McDonald't rest areas, but for most people that's as good as it gets. Also their joints are very flexible in terms of number of customers served, so it's very easy to run the business efficiently. Just what you need on a motorway.


----------



## Adamus!

I think it`s time to see more blue on the map - S6 :cheers:
http://www.gp24.pl/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20140602%2FPOMORZE%2F140609971


----------



## Strzala

Driving from Lublin to Kraków (one of few options):






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NXO3E7IE6I#!

*National road No. 19* Lublin - Kraśnik

*National road No. 74 * Kraśnik - Opatów

*Voivodeship road No. 757* Opatów - Stopnica

*National Road No. 73* Stopnica - Tarnów

*Motorway/Highway A4* Tarnów - Kraków


----------



## Strzala

Chris80678 said:


> Realistically when can we expect to see the entire length of the Lublin bypass open to traffic?



Building progress, state on 04.06.2014:





JinMao said:


>


----------



## Kemo

Presidents of Poland and Germany during a ceremony of giving A2 motorway a symbolical name - "Motorway of Freedom"




























Source: http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/15206/Drogowy-symbol-wolnosci


----------



## MichiH

Kemo said:


> Presidents of Poland and Germany


The sign has a "nice" color...


----------



## LMB

Kemo said:


> Presidents of Poland and Germany during a ceremony of giving A2 motorway a symbolical name - "Motorway of Freedom"


The one you take to leave Poland? :lol:

(at least for me, I lived in Poznan)


----------



## JanVL

LMB said:


> The one you take to leave Poland? :lol:
> 
> (at least for me, I lived in Poznan)


Yep, the Berlin-Poznan-Warsaw one.


----------



## Kanadzie

but it is on the poludnie MOP so you see it going _into _PL... I hope :lol:


----------



## dexter2

JanVL said:


> Yep, the Berlin-Poznan-Warsaw one.


----------



## JanVL

:troll:


----------



## keokiracer

JanVL said:


> :troll:


That top picture is Jeremy Clarkson's VW commercial from Top gear, right?


----------



## SRC_100

^^
Right. 
Te second one picture is taken from polish "II WW" TV movie "4 pancerni i pies" (4 tankers and dog) made in early '60.


----------



## kmieciu

*Southern carriageway of National Road 18 Olszyna - Krzyżowa*


----------



## Kanadzie

I like how you see the cars on the right lane, driver says something like "o kurwa" from so many bumps, so tries left lane, "o kurrrwwwaaa!" and goes back to right lane :lol:


----------



## ryjek

This road called "The Europe's longest stairs"

northern carriageway *here* >>


----------



## Chris80678

Yeah and due to a lack of funds southern carriageway won't be ripped up and replaced with a better quality road surface any time soon (at least not before 2020) hno:


----------



## SRC_100

Today, GDDKiA opened 4 tenders! 
3 of them for A1 Stryków-Tuszyn (3 stretches) and 1 for A4 Rzeszów-Jarosław (one long stretch). All of them are continuation of ex Polimex`s contracts/projects. As we know, Polimex was fired some time ego. 
The best offers/quotations are following:

*A1 Stryków-Tuszyn*:

- 1st stretch: consortium Strabag Sp. z.o.o + BUDIMEX S.A. - *339.623.175,69 PLN* brutto
- 2nd stretch: MOTA-ENGIL Central Europe S.A. - *360.747.073,93 PLN* brutto
- 3rd stretch: consortium Strabag Sp. z.o.o + BUDIMEX S.A. - *327.041.625,00 PLN* brutto


*A4 Rzeszów-Jarosław*:

- consortium Strabag Sp. z.o.o + BUDIMEX S.A. - *719.503.995,66 PLN* brutto

:cheers:


----------



## sponge_bob

JanVL said:


> :troll:


Only one tank, how unambitous.


----------



## MAG

Chris80678 said:


> Yeah and due to a lack of funds southern carriageway won't be ripped up ... before 2020 ...


'A watched kettle takes longer to boil' or so the saying goes. 

Sooner or later eastbound A18 will get upgraded and it will be a joy to drive on. Right now, westbound A18 is one of my favourite roads because of the low traffic volume and the mysterious woodlands through which the road passes, an example of which is given below. The Lipiany South rest area (MOP) serves easily the best kotlet schabowy in the world garnished with salads made from the freshest local produce. I've heard many a truck driver describe their cuisine as 'niebo w gębie'. I highly recommend stopping by and sampling their wholesome dishes, which you will find a far cry from modern fast-food outlets serving 'meals' of dubious parentage.

Personally, I don't mind waiting another few years for the A18 because the step change in quality will be worth it, just take a look at these historical comparisons taken with my fair hand: 











Junction Golnice looking east (left) and west (right)











Just love those long afternoon shadows







.


----------



## Deadeye Reloaded

Is this really the last remaining stretch of a (Reichs-)Autobahn* built by Nazi-Germany in Europe? :hmm:

*eastbound A18


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Last summer a short stretch of A11 in Germany and a few km of DK3/6 near Szczecin also had such pavement.

I broke my right front spring during that trip.


----------



## Deadeye Reloaded

^^
I´m sorry to hear that. Too bad you can´t sue the 3rd Reich anymore for a recompense.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Reichsautobahn*

It doesn't look so bad on photos, but when driving 80 or 100 km/h, you're bouncing to the roof of your vehicle.


A11-54 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


DK6-2 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Janek0

Deadeye Reloaded said:


> Is this really the last remaining stretch of a (Reichs-)Autobahn* built by Nazi-Germany in Europe? :hmm:
> 
> *eastbound A18


Reichsautobahn Berlin-Königsberg, DW142


----------



## markfos

GTA - Warsaw edition


----------



## MAG

ChrisZwolle said:


> It doesn't look so bad on photos, but when driving 80 or 100 km/h, you're bouncing to the roof of your vehicle.


Yeah, the road looks almost romantic but I can sympathise with your experience of bouncing up to the roof and having your innards rearranged every few minutes. Just like you, I damaged my suspension driving on these last remaining RAB roads. In my case it was about 10 years ago driving on the A18 where part of my wishbone suspension manifold split. I only discovered the fault a few days later and had to face an unexpected large bill of something like €400. All part of the rich tapestry of life. 

These days I am a little wiser and limit my exposure to such risks. 





markfos said:


> GTA - Warsaw edition


hno:
This joker should be locked up, the sooner the better.



.


----------



## keokiracer

MAG said:


> hno:
> This joker should be locked up, the sooner the better.


"This joker"?
All 5 of em please! Don't forget the motards


----------



## bartek76

^^
Lunatic asylum for all of them


----------



## Haveblue

Deadeye Reloaded said:


> ^^
> I´m sorry to hear that. Too bad you can´t sue the 3rd Reich anymore for a recompense.


Some people in Poland (believe it or not) are still not aware of the fact that the war is over.


----------



## Iluminat

bartek76 said:


> ^^
> Lunatic asylum for all of them


future organ donors


----------



## ufonut

MAG said:


> hno:
> This joker should be locked up, the sooner the better.
> 
> 
> 
> .


*He just got busted by cops (not his first circus act - he was jailed for stunt driving before) !*

Policja zna już nazwisko kierowcy, który urządził sobie rajd ulicami Warszawy - nieoficjalnie dowiedziało się RMF FM. Wszystko wskazuje na to, że to Robert N., ps. Frog. Szaleńczą jazdę kierowca białego sportowego bmw nagrał, a film wrzucił do sieci. Okazuje się, że to niepierwszy wyczyn 23-latka. W lutym pędził ponad 200 km/h drogą krajową numer 7. Świętokrzyska policja ścigała go wówczas przez dwa powiaty. 

More:
http://wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,1348,ti...a-kierowce-BMW-M3,wid,16666772,wiadomosc.html


----------



## Surel

Kanadzie said:


> I like how you see the cars on the right lane, driver says something like "o kurwa" from so many bumps, so tries left lane, "o kurrrwwwaaa!" and goes back to right lane :lol:


The speed limit is 80 on this road, lowered to 60 at places. Driving faster than 120 is not feasible. Luckily the other westbound carriageway is of superb quality. Accidentally I got to experience *only the eastbound carriageway this time *, when going west I forgot to exit the A4 for the A18 and had to go through Dresden and not through Berlin. 

The route through A4 and Dresden is a bit hilly, which is less comfortable but more scenic. For longer routes from North-West Germany to South East Poland I would advice to take the A4 and go through Dresden. For the westbound routes I would advice to take the A18 and go through Berlin.

Next time I am driving east I will take the A4 and go through Dresden...


It was great that the Mzsana bridge on A1 is opened. I think it takes some 20 minutes off from Ostrava - Katowice route.


----------



## rav00

ufonut said:


> *He just got busted by cops (not his first circus act - he was jailed for stunt driving before) !*
> 
> Policja zna już nazwisko kierowcy, który urządził sobie rajd ulicami Warszawy - nieoficjalnie dowiedziało się RMF FM. Wszystko wskazuje na to, że to Robert N., ps. Frog. Szaleńczą jazdę kierowca białego sportowego bmw nagrał, a film wrzucił do sieci. Okazuje się, że to niepierwszy wyczyn 23-latka. W lutym pędził ponad 200 km/h drogą krajową numer 7. Świętokrzyska policja ścigała go wówczas przez dwa powiaty.
> 
> More:
> http://wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,1348,ti...a-kierowce-BMW-M3,wid,16666772,wiadomosc.html


Except he was never jailed. This chase was not qualified as crime, but as misdemeanor.


----------



## Chris80678

Any more expressway/motorway openings coming up in the new few months?


----------



## maciek2000

Have a look at my signature:

"najwcześniej kiedy oddadzom? (hetman)" - there is a schedule (and some maps).


----------



## Chris80678

Good to see lots more green on the map BRAVO POLAND!. Still not much red though is there but I am sure that will all change soon?

I am just staggerered by the amount of progress Poland has made so far in terms of road building and more excellent high quality roads. There is still a long way to go though

The list is wrong as well because the opening of the S17 Lublin bypass is delayed until October 2014 at least


----------



## toonczyk

Chris80678 said:


> Still not much red though is there but I am sure that will all change soon?


Yellow and orange sections will gradually turn into red and pink. Unfortunately there will be barely any new roads opened in 2015 and 2016, but starting from 2017 the network will really start coming together.


----------



## snowdog

Surel said:


> The speed limit is 80 on this road, lowered to 60 at places. Driving faster than 120 is not feasible. Luckily the other westbound carriageway is of superb quality.


This is what is wrong with the speed limits, just because a Fiat126p or a Polonez falls apart on such roads, I'm pretty sure any car with Air (like Merc S Class) or hydro suspension ( Like Citroens) will glide over that road at high speed without problems. Or generally any car even with good quality springs and shocks. You can't compare a city tin can or old soviet bloc car with a luxury German or Japanese saloon or SUV or so, these cars are made to be comfy even on rubbish roads like this.

Let drivers decide themselves what punishment their cars can take, no need for a silly 60 km/h limit on a 2x2 dual carriageway.


----------



## Surel

snowdog said:


> This is what is wrong with the speed limits, just because a Fiat126p or a Polonez falls apart on such roads, I'm pretty sure any car with Air (like Merc S Class) or hydro suspension ( Like Citroens) will glide over that road at high speed without problems. Or generally any car even with good quality springs and shocks. You can't compare a city tin can or old soviet bloc car with a luxury German or Japanese saloon or SUV or so, these cars are made to be comfy even on rubbish roads like this.
> 
> Let drivers decide themselves what punishment their cars can take, no need for a silly 60 km/h limit on a 2x2 dual carriageway.


I guess you drove on that road? I don't say that brand new Golf is a great car, but it is no tin either. I did not felt safe going faster than 120 anywhere on that road and the reduction to 60 km/h was well placed. I don't think that better suspension would prevent you from going airborne there. It was more safety than comfort that I would be concerned there with.


----------



## Kemo

Chris80678 said:


> Any more expressway/motorway openings coming up in the new few months?


Not much. S8 Łask - Róża in first half of July could be the only one to open till the end of July.

But quite a few minor town bypasses are finishing this summer :cheers:
Let me remind the list of u/c roads (out of A/S network) that I made:


----------



## mcarling

Surel said:


> I guess you drove on that road? I don't say that brand new Golf is a great car, but it is no tin either. I did not felt safe going faster than 120 anywhere on that road and the reduction to 60 km/h was well placed. I don't think that better suspension would prevent you from going airborne there. It was more safety than comfort that I would be concerned there with.


Larger diameter tires will always make a difference on bumpy roads, both in terms of comfort and safety.


----------



## MonteChristo

markfos said:


> GTA - Warsaw edition



and his stunts from February


----------



## MichiH

Chris80678 said:


> The list is wrong as well because the opening of the S17 Lublin bypass is delayed until October 2014 at least


Source? None of _maciek2000_'s maps or lists has been modified. All still announce June 2014 (hetman's with "delay" flag).


----------



## Chris80678

p206 is my source. This is what HaveBlue (a building surveyor) said on that page:

"I say - October this year.

It appears to me that Budimex is going to finish their repair works in about month or 6 weeks (on Lublin bypass part No2), but Dragados (present on on Lublin bypass part No3 and 4) is just not making any significant progress and in my view their works will linger far beyond June 2014 (what is already an annexed date)."


----------



## Kemo

^^
We don't know. Sections 2&3 (Jastków - Lublin Rudnik) will not be opened sooner than in October. But section 4 (Lublin Rudnik - Lublin Felin) could be opened sooner. Or maybe only a part of it: Lublin Zadębie - Lublin Felin.


----------



## Kanadzie

Surel said:


> I guess you drove on that road? I don't say that brand new Golf is a great car, but it is no tin either. I did not felt safe going faster than 120 anywhere on that road and the reduction to 60 km/h was well placed. I don't think that better suspension would prevent you from going airborne there. It was more safety than comfort that I would be concerned there with.


I am not sure why you don't see "suggestion" speed limits for such things (blue sign)...


----------



## Surel

Kanadzie said:


> I am not sure why you don't see "suggestion" speed limits for such things (blue sign)...


What do you mean?


----------



## Kanadzie

In USA and Canada, when there is a dangerous situation, often they apply "recommended speed" sign (yellow), which is not legally binding. For example on a normal road speed limit might be 90 km/h, but at sharp curve, suggested limit 55 km/h, but you can drive up to 90 km/h if you can do so safely (e.g. you have Porsche and not a TIR). I think in Vienna Convention signs this is blue square speed sign, but I have not seen even one of them in PL (actually... only on the "wilkommen bei Deutschland" signs )

Probably the worst example is the off-ramps in PL fixed limit 40 or 60 km/h, but you pass the sign driving 140 km/h and you want to drive maybe 70 all the way through... it is risky in case some policia are fishing! Here the limit would be "suggested" but the freeway limit would still apply legally (until you get to the next road)

It is nice because it allows you to use your judgement of the situation and what you want to do... example on a bumpy road I will drive much slower in my convertible (it is old, doesn't like bumps) than my Mercedes (it has better suspension)...


----------



## mcarling

300,000 km per second is a law. All other speed limits are only recommendations, though they may come with consequences.


----------



## snowdog

Surel said:


> I guess you drove on that road? I don't say that brand new Golf is a great car, but it is no tin either. I did not felt safe going faster than 120 anywhere on that road and the reduction to 60 km/h was well placed. I don't think that better suspension would prevent you from going airborne there. It was more safety than comfort that I would be concerned there with.


Fair enough, I didn't, the golf is a compact car though, behaves MUCH differently from a large saloon car ( less stable and less comfortable), let alone a car on Air or Hydro suspension.
I can see how 120 is a tad quick for such a rubbish road, but 60 is a bit meh for a dual carriegeway... I'm pretty sure not all cars will need to go that slow.


> I think in Vienna Convention signs this is blue square speed sign,


Aye, they are reasonably common in my area in Holland, also on motorways ( for example the A16 near the A20 at Terbregge).









Much better solution than a fixed speed limit.


----------



## Richard_P

Kanadzie said:


> I think in Vienna Convention signs this is blue square speed sign, but I have not seen even one of them in PL (actually... only on the "wilkommen bei Deutschland" signs ).


Yes You are right, suggested speed limit is in Europe signed by blue square, unfortunately in Poland some dumbass messed with road code and signs and without any particular reason suggested speed was taken from it. But this isn't only stupidity which was implemented as for example temporarily road sign obligation (from hour to hour or during rain etc.) was also banned which basically means that speed limit is constant regardless of road conditions and temporarily sings (eg. winter speed restrictions) are dismantled after the season. Poland is also rich enough country to ban single middle line so there everywhere is double line. Yes and we mustn’t forget that in Poland right green arrow (painted not in lamp form) was banned in the same year when Germany and Czech Republic introduced it :nuts:


----------



## Kemo

Polish road engineers :nuts:
A house in the middle of the road, no warning signage at all.








http://maps.google.pl/maps?q=Skrajn...P8S5U-ykCYl76sigeA&cbp=12,270.28,,1,-0.4&z=17


----------



## Kemo

Chris80678 said:


> Which project? S5 bypass of Bojanowo & Rawicz?


Yes, there are no other sections of S5 under construction right now.


----------



## Kemo

Apparently the "Korczowa" junction will be opened today.
Pascal needs to find another subject of his questions :troll:









(source: GDDKiA)

EDIT: It was opened.


----------



## Eulanthe

Kemo said:


> Yes, there are no other sections of S5 under construction right now.


Any news about the expected opening date?

I'm dreaming of the day that the S5 is complete between Poznan and Wroclaw. Being able to drive between the two in 90 minutes really will change a lot.


----------



## Chris80678

Eulanthe said:


> Any news about the expected opening date?
> 
> Not yet no. All we know is will possibly be some time in autumn this year


----------



## Eulanthe

Chris80678 said:


> Not yet no. All we know is will possibly be some time in autumn this year


Ah, faster than I thought - those pictures make it seem like it could be next year.

Right now, my wish is for the S5 to be completed from Wroclaw to Trzebnica, from the A2 to Stęszew and for a bypass of Leszno.


----------



## Chris80678

Eulanthe said:


> Ah, faster than I thought - those pictures make it seem like it could be next year.
> 
> There is no guarantee S5 Kaczkowo - Korzeńsko will open in autumn this year - that's just an estimate
> 
> 
> 
> Eulanthe said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right now, my wish is for the S5 to be completed from Wroclaw to Trzebnica, from the A2 to Stęszew and for a bypass of Leszno
> 
> We will be waiting a long time for all of the above to be completed. As far as I know a tender has only been announced this year for
> S5 Trzebnica to Wroclaw. I have no idea about the status or at what stage we are in the process (i.e. DSU, tender announced) of the S5 from the A2 to Stęszew and Leszno bypass
Click to expand...


----------



## Rusonaldo

Expressway S5 Wrocław - Poznań


----------



## Venividi

^^
nice and sleazy


----------



## Chris80678

Venividi said:


> ^^
> nice and sleazy


sleazy?


----------



## Venividi

The song - Nice 'N' Sleazy (originally recorded by the Stranglers). The road is just nice


----------



## Eulanthe

Chris80678 said:


> There is no guarantee S5 Kaczkowo - Korzeńsko will open in autumn this year - that's just an estimate


I'm betting on next Spring, I just don't see them finishing everything by autumn. But then again... 



> We will be waiting a long time for all of the above to be completed. As far as I know a tender has only been announced this year for
> S5 Trzebnica to Wroclaw. I have no idea about the status or at what stage we are in the process (i.e. DSU, tender announced) of the S5 from the A2 to Stęszew and Leszno bypass


As far as I remember, the entire S5 in Dolnoslaskie has gone to tender, along with the two sections that I mentioned. The missing part (and I suspect that it will go to tender just before the local elections...) is the worst section of DK5 - between Stęszew and Leszno.


----------



## Kanadzie

Eulanthe said:


> Ah, faster than I thought - those pictures make it seem like it could be next year.
> 
> Right now, my wish is for the S5 to be completed from Wroclaw to Trzebnica, from the A2 to Stęszew and for a bypass of Leszno.


I did DK5 from Poznan to Leszno, there was big works going on the road entering Leszno last year, but I don't know what (I think widening but not freeway). I thought the road was okay, but the only section open of S5 at the time was a little ridiculous (expressway sign, one overpass, end expressway sign :lol


----------



## Chris80678

Kanadzie;115027321 but the only section open of S5 at the time was a little ridiculous (expressway sign said:


> That sounds like the bypass of Śmigiel between Poznań and Leszno (which is signed as S5)


----------



## Kanadzie

sounds about right, look there's the overpass 
https://www.google.pl/maps/@52.0099...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sdppPdW7S31KM0X4Ww-58Gg!2e0


----------



## Strzala

*Solidarności avenue in Lublin one of accesses to Lublin bypass*:

Views in the direction of Lublin city center:



LeszekLBN said:


>


Views in the direction of Warsaw/bypass:




LeszekLBN said:


>


----------



## Chris80678

Looking good Lublin :cheers:


----------



## Maadeuurija

What's up with the dirt in the median and the narrow road?


----------



## Chris80678

Maadeuurija said:


> What's up with the dirt in the median and the narrow road?


Terrain reserved for a possible extra lane in the future if it is needed?


----------



## Strzala

Chris80678 said:


> Terrain reserved for a possible extra lane in the future if it is needed?


Yes it's reserve for two additional lanes in the future, now there is grass planted.


----------



## Chris80678

So when will this new modernised Aleja Solidarności open to traffic?


----------



## Strzala

Chris80678 said:


> So when will this new modernised Aleja Solidarności open to traffic?


It's not modernised, it's a brand new section. Aleja Solidarności should be ready in half of July, but it couldn't be open for traffic on all lenght because it's inseparably connected with section of expressway S12/17 which is under repair cause of ground subsidence till 28 August.

New section of Aleja Solidarności marked with green/black line (first from left): 










Today photo from under repair section of S12/S17:











Both roads (Aleja Solidarności and under repair section of S12/17) should be fully open for traffic at the beginning of September.


----------



## Maadeuurija

Chris80678 said:


> Terrain reserved for a possible extra lane in the future if it is needed?





Strzala said:


> Yes it's reserve for two additional lanes in the future, now there is grass planted.


That makes sense, thanks


----------



## Strzala

Yesterday photos from *S12/17/19 Lublin bypass:*




Luke4Me said:


> Dzisiejsze SMArowanie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9.





Luke4Me said:


> 11.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 17.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 19. Tu zapewne zakończy się dzisiejsze SMArowanie


----------



## ufonut

MOP (Rest Area) Strzelce on A1 by *michalzbrzezin*

Nice departure from typically boring designs one can find on most rest areas in Poland.



michalzbrzezin said:


> MOP Strzelce


----------



## geogregor

My shots from A1 junction in Mszana









Looking south towards Czech Republic from DW933













































Details:


















Still looking south:


----------



## geogregor

Planting around the motorway:


----------



## geogregor

Looking north from DW933






















































Slip roads


----------



## geogregor

Let's go under the famous/infamous bridge:



























To check the unique external post-tensioning cables. They had to be added externally after internal cables were badly laid by the initial contractor. They were removed, void spaces filled and these visible cables were added.


----------



## geogregor

That's it.
I have to say it is amazing to see A1 finally reaching my hometown. I remember plans and talks about it since ever. Well, let say some more serious movements were visible for at least the last 15 years (planning, design, tenders etc).
I still can't believe it is finished


----------



## Strzala

>


Polish colours mix™ :nuts:


----------



## Kanadzie

designers are wasted, like the song po radiu


----------



## Chris80678

Strzala said:


> Polish colours mix™ :nuts:


Yellow and purple - it's not that bad. I like the mix :banana: Poland is being different and that's great :cheers:


----------



## MonteChristo

Again colours...  It's boring already. I like the colours. Much better than gray concrete.


----------



## Iluminat

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-nPYpBZNhtwA/U6yJoe4opOI/AAAAAAAAK1I/EXTXQEXTnV4/s800/DSC03355.JPG

It looks like a computer


----------



## geogregor

Iluminat said:


> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-nPYpBZNhtwA/U6yJoe4opOI/AAAAAAAAK1I/EXTXQEXTnV4/s800/DSC03355.JPG
> 
> It looks like a computer


I have exactly the same connotation.
Maybe a bit more with circuit board 

Here are two shots showing how we fill a market niche in Poland 


















I guess it made sense when there was a gap in the A1.
Nowadays it must be mostly obsolete. And it definitely will be once they open BP station on the A1 in the coming weeks.


----------



## Strzala

Junction 'Lublin Zadębie' on Lublin bypass (entrance from Świdnik to Lublin):



Kubalub said:


> Fotki z soboty


Location

Section 4 of Lublin bypass with almost 1 kilometre lenght 'Bystrzyca river valley' overpass:



Kubalub said:


> Uprzedzając pytania, odpowiadam, iż więcej zdjęć nie posiadam


Location


Reconstruction of 700 metres lenght subsided section 2 on Lublin bypass:

1. Direction Warsaw:



marti:) said:


> w kierunku Warszawy


Direction Lublin:



marti:) said:


> kierunek Lublin


Location


----------



## NordikNerd

Here is a sign with roads S3 & 6








Here is a sign with roads 3 & 6 The letter "S" is missing. What does the "S" mean ?


----------



## SRC_100

^^
S-expressway
A-motorway


----------



## NordikNerd

SRC_100 said:


> ^^
> S-expressway
> A-motorway


Thanks.









What's the meaning of this on road 10 ? A speed sign cut in half ?


----------



## SRC_100

^^
Some kind of psychological effect on drivers. Big and separate speed limit sign more strongly gives us to understand the need to reduce speed... very rare using in PL.


----------



## Strzala

*S12/S17/S19 Lublin bypass (photos from 03.07.2014):*




>


^^ Location




>


^^ Location



>


^^ Location




>


^^ Location




>


^^ Location




>


^^ Location




>


^^ Location



>


^^ Location

All photos from GDDKiA.


----------



## RipleyLV

> http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/


Btw, there was some construction going on between Łomża and Szczuczyn, I can't recall where exactly. Ground works crossed the DK61 road.


----------



## albiman

The letters on the Polish signs are pretty small, are not they?


----------



## Kemo

S69 by Marek Kocjan:



marek_kocjan said:


>


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

RipleyLV said:


> Btw, there was some construction going on between Łomża and Szczuczyn, I can't recall where exactly. Ground works crossed the DK61 road.


 Stawiski bypass - recently finished.


----------



## RipleyLV

Jakub Warszauer said:


> Stawiski bypass - recently finished.


No no, I drove on that. There was something else going on.


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

RipleyLV said:


> No no, I drove on that. There was something else going on.


Bargłów Kościelny bypass - under construction

Szczuczyn bypass - construction to be resumed this summer (after former construction company has resigned from the contract).


----------



## RipleyLV

Jakub Warszauer said:


> Bargłów Kościelny bypass - under construction
> 
> Szczuczyn bypass - construction to be resumed this summer (after former construction company has resigned from the contract).


Yeah, Bargłów Kościelny bypass might be the one I was talking about. I thought it was part of S61.


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

RipleyLV said:


> Yeah, Bargłów Kościelny bypass might be the one I was talking about. I thought it was part of S61.


S61 will be detoured from Szczuczyn towards Ełk, and then Suwałki.

DK61 Szczuczyn - Grajewo - Augustów will loose lot of traffic, as main transit road will use proposed S61.

Therefore, Bargłów Kościelny bypass is being build at a lower standard, as GP-class road. Main reason for the project is to remove the traffic from build-up area.


----------



## RipleyLV

^^ Cool, thanks! Are there any recent pictures of on going S61 construction near Suwałki?


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

RipleyLV said:


> ^^ Cool, thanks! Are there any recent pictures of on going S61 construction near Suwałki?


You probably mean Augustów bypass, which covers both bypass and new aligment of route Augustów - Suwałki. Tons of photos can be found here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=449773

Take into account that only northern part of the bypass (from Raczki to Suwałki) features future S61 (2x2 expressway. Section from Augustów to Raczki is being build also at a lower, GP-class standard (1x2 road for heavy traffic). 

Detailed designs are here:
http://siskom.waw.pl/s8-obwodnica-Augustowa.htm


----------



## rakcancer

Progress on construction of bridge over Wisla river between towns of Iłża and Kamień (DW747)


adamlen said:


> Witam. Były nie dawno zdjęcia mostu ze strony lubelskiej więc dam kilka dzisiejszych ze strony mazowieckiej. Trochę się zmieniło od mojej ostatniej wizyty, ale termin oddania moim zdaniem będzie na pewno trochę opóźniony. Z drugiej strony 1 czy 2 miesiące w oddaniu mostu nie robią takiej różnicy. Większy problem jest z drogami dojazdowymi i dalej w ciągu DW747 do Iłży. Ciekaw jestem o ile wzrośnie ruch na tej trasie w przyszłym roku.


----------



## KualaSeberLumpur

albiman said:


> The letters on the Polish signs are pretty small, are not they?


No!


----------



## JanVL

The ministry for infrastructure and development has changed some priorities. This year the green light for the tender of the S6 Szczecin - Koszalin and its bypass will be given. Other priorities are the bypasses of Szczecinek and Wałcz.

The projects will cost 4.6 billion zloty more than the program presented in March, which then foresaw 72.3 billion zloty. 

Until 2021 57 km of the A1 motorway will be build, as well as 1350 km of express roads and 161 km of bypasses. 

Although in 2014 and 2015 the budget for the roads of priority will be 1 billion zloty less. 

Green: existing roads
Yellow: roads U/C
Red: new priorities 










http://wyborcza.biz/biznes/1,100896...apie_miedzy_innymi_Szczecin.html#BoxSlotI3img


----------



## Eulanthe

1 billion less?

Let me guess, the S5 is going to be delayed. Again.


----------



## ka__zet

^^map is "fixed" now.


----------



## Nexis

*Time Lapse Katowice - Brenna*


----------



## Strzala

Lublin bypass:

Direction Warsaw:

roll ------------------------------------------------------------>










Direction Zamość/Chełm

roll ------------------------------------------------->










^^ Location

New bridge over Vistula river in Kamień and reconstruct of DW747 (video&photos from Wrocław - Lublin flight):






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1INDdAObrGA





















^^Location


----------



## Chris80678

Still a long way to go with S17 Lublin bypass hno:but I am confident that the entire bypass will open on time


----------



## Strzala

Chris80678 said:


> Still a long way to go with S17 Lublin bypass hno:but I am confident that the entire bypass will open on time


It is spanish company DRAGADOS fault, it has been building Lublin bypass over 2,5 year... :bash: 


New opening terms:



>


=====Section- end of August 2014 (Dragados)
===== Section- September/October 2014 (Dragados: from junction 'Lublin Rudnik' to junction 'Lublin Sławinek')


=====Section (West Lublin Bypass - ZOL)- end of 2016/beginning of 2017 (GDDKiA choosing contractor now)

===== Section - opened (in traffic)


----------



## bigalowski

By 2021 Wroclaw's road network will allow to get to Berlin, Poznan, Warsaw, Krakow by expressway or motorway. Possibly Prag, all major cities except Vienna via Brno. Which brings back the memories of little-known Raichsautobahn Strecke 88
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsautobahn_Wien–Breslau

DK8 Wroclaw direction Klodzko is very congested. Locaction of Special Economic Zone in Kobierzyce borough causes high volume of lorries. Little is said about future plans of this stretch.


----------



## mcarling

bigalowski said:


> By 2021 Wroclaw's road network will allow to get to Berlin, Poznan, Warsaw, Krakow by expressway or motorway. Possibly Prag, all major cities except Vienna via Brno. Which brings back the memories of little-known Raichsautobahn Strecke 88
> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsautobahn_Wien–Breslau


In my opinion, this is needed, though not the highest current priority.



bigalowski said:


> DK8 Wroclaw direction Klodzko is very congested. Locaction of Special Economic Zone in Kobierzyce borough causes high volume of lorries. Little is said about future plans of this stretch.


I'm my opinion, S8 should be extended to Klodzko.


----------



## Kanadzie

it's interesting - III Reich thought it was important road, since all would be the same country. They aren't, but with EU and Schengen borders, they are becoming so, and thus, the road is needed also  And if any kind of road would deserve EU funding, it is this kind (one that serves mostly A and PL, but mostly exists in CZ)


----------



## mcarling

Kanadzie said:


> it's interesting - III Reich thought it was important road, since all would be the same country. They aren't, but with EU and Schengen borders, they are becoming so, and thus, the road is needed also  And if any kind of road would deserve EU funding, it is this kind (one that serves mostly A and PL, but mostly exists in CZ)


I know some here disagree, but I continue to believe that the construction of the S5 between Poznan and Wroclaw and the construction of the A5/R52 between Brno and Vienna will increase traffic flows along this north/south corridor which now detour via other routes. That will in turn lead to an extension of the S8 to Klodzko and the R43 from Brno to the R35 near Svitavy. Once that is done, there will be pressure to close the gap between Klodzko and Svitavy, perhaps with significant tunnel boring in the PL/CZ border region. Of course, all this could take 20 to 50 years.


----------



## bigalowski

it's fairly close from Svitavy to Kłodzko. 
A5 section Schrick - Drasenhofen is undergoing the construction right now. After its completion road from Vienna to Tisnov, Kurim exit R43 (except the Svitavy - Pohorelice section) will be a dual carriageway. The missing part to A8 near Wrocław is circa 240 km. The whole Wroclaw Vienna section is almost completed in half.


----------



## Chris80678

Wasn't the S8 from Łask (DK12) to Róża (S14) supposed to open yesterday? It's been ready for some time now hno:


----------



## Strzala

*S12/17/19 Lublin bypass:*








https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnPESpaOGJg


----------



## LMB

While I'd love to be able to travel a straight line from Poznan to Vienna, I'm not sure there's enough traffic at the moment to justify a motorway. Surely the traffic will eventually increase, but politicians have a powerful argument against at the moment. 

And Czechs may be reluctant.


----------



## Eulanthe

mcarling said:


> I know some here disagree, but I continue to believe that the construction of the S5 between Poznan and Wroclaw and the construction of the A5/R52 between Brno and Vienna will increase traffic flows along this north/south corridor which now detour via other routes. That will in turn lead to an extension of the S8 to Klodzko and the R43 from Brno to the R35 near Svitavy. Once that is done, there will be pressure to close the gap between Klodzko and Svitavy, perhaps with significant tunnel boring in the PL/CZ border region. Of course, all this could take 20 to 50 years.


I think you're completely right. But the problem is that border region - to get the road through from Svitavy to Klodzko is going to take a considerable amount of pain and effort on both sides. But both the S3 and A1 corridors are too far west/east to be useful. 

But we also don't really know how much demand is supressed because of the 7.5t limit on the PL/CZ border. In regards to Brno-Svitavy, the alternative route via Olomouc is only 28km longer, so it's still viable.

The S8 is badly needed in my opinion - it's a mess on Friday/Sundays, and traffic always seems to be fairly heavy long there. I'd settle for a single carriageway expressway at the minute. 

I'm completely in agreement with you however, I think this corridor is potentially one of the 'big' ones in years to come. The EU seems to recognise that north-south corridors also need love.


----------



## mcarling

Chris80678 said:


> Wasn't the S8 from Łask (DK12) to Róża (S14) supposed to open yesterday?


My understanding is that it should open this Friday, the 18th of July.



Eulanthe said:


> I think you're completely right. But the problem is that border region - to get the road through from Svitavy to Klodzko is going to take a considerable amount of pain and effort on both sides. But both the S3 and A1 corridors are too far west/east to be useful.
> 
> But we also don't really know how much demand is supressed because of the 7.5t limit on the PL/CZ border. In regards to Brno-Svitavy, the alternative route via Olomouc is only 28km longer, so it's still viable.


28km is a lot longer when one considers the pollution times the AADT times 28km. Add to that the direct costs of fuel, vehicle wear and tear, etc. plus the cost of time and 28km is a very long detour.


----------



## John Maynard

There is no good connection from Wroclaw to Prague either, the existing road is only 2 lane full of trucks (Polish side).
Completion of Reichsautobahn 88 will facilitate and relieve local traffic not only to Vienna, but also will make a good link to Budapest from Western Poland (actually unexisting), and Southern Europe in general - which means it's a sizable axis.









Maybe one day Autobahn from Wroclaw to Vienna will be opened, hopefully before the centennial from the start of construction!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Why are there so many Italian builders on the Polish market? I was browsing through the S7/DK16 Ostróda bids, 3 of the 7 bids are from Italian constructors, and they also tend to bid far below the government estimates on various projects (especially Astaldi).


----------



## Chris80678

del


----------



## Chris80678

So has Łask (DK12) to Róża (S14) opened yet?


----------



## Eulanthe

ChrisZwolle said:


> Why are there so many Italian builders on the Polish market? I was browsing through the S7/DK16 Ostróda bids, 3 of the 7 bids are from Italian constructors, and they also tend to bid far below the government estimates on various projects (especially Astaldi).


Haven't they learnt anything from the previous projects that went way too low?


----------



## Dusha

Have travelled on A2 from Berlin to Warsaw few days ago and have noticed that 3 new MOPs (1st cat with petrol stations and fast-food) were finally opened on A2 close to Warsaw (both sides).

MOP Nowostawy / MOP Niesułków (51.898966,19.706705)
MOP Parma / MOP Polesie (52.028159,20.003614) + MacDonalds here
MOP Brwinow (52.155215,20.686124) + BurgerKing here


----------



## Janek0

Chris80678 said:


> So has Łask (DK12) to Róża (S14) opened yet?


No. http://mapa.targeo.pl/,24,19.2135800,51.5944800?ln=en


----------



## Chris80678

Janek0 said:


> No. http://mapa.targeo.pl/,24,19.2135800,51.5944800?ln=en


So has Łask (DK12) to Róża (S14) opened yet? 

No. http://mapa.targeo.pl/,24,19.2135800,51.5944800?ln=en 
__________________

Just looked now and according to tageo.pl S8 Łask (DK12) to Róża (S14) (9 km)
is now open to traffic :cheers:


----------



## Janek0

Chris80678 said:


> Just looked now and according to tageo.pl S8 Łask (DK12) to Róża (S14) (9 km)
> is now open to traffic :cheers:


?? It is still grayed out. And it might be still for several months. hno:


----------



## Chris80678

Janek0 said:


> ?? It is still grayed out. And it might be still for several months. hno:


Why? hno:


----------



## Janek0

Chris80678 said:


> Why? hno:


Łask mayor with support of the Police apparently fears congestion in the town after opening of this section without the next section. However, this is unofficial report from jozin z bazin.



jozin z bazin said:


> Jeśli chodzi o otwarcie odcinka Łask-Róża, to nie zostanie on otwarty do momentu ukończenia co najmniej odcinka do Karsznic lub też nawet do węzła Zd. Wola. Protest wniósł Burmistrz Łasku przy poparciu Policji, a uzasadnieniem ich protestu była wizja totalnego zakorkowania Łasku. :nuts:


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

^^Maybe he is afraid of constant crashes


----------



## SRC_100

^^
No, he expects city traffic jam, all and every day


----------



## mcarling

Opening the completed section of the S8 east of Łask would change traffic patterns in the town, but probably would not increase overall traffic nor should it be expected to cause traffic jams after drivers get used to it. There would be a new equilibrium.


----------



## SRC_100

^^
This section won`t influence transit traffic, just the local. To improve local (in area of Łask, Sieradz etc.) and transit traffic, all sections of S8 between Wrocław and Łódź must be opened. Hoping it`s gonna happen early autumn.


----------



## Chris80678

Perhaps the mayor is Łask is waiting for whole S8 from the Wieluń exit (or Walichnowy exit whichever you prefer) to Róża to open end of this year/middle of 2015 :nuts: :lol:

He does have a point though as through traffic through Łask would not suddenly decrease with the opening of the section between Łask and Róża as traffic would still need to go through the Łask to access the S8 and vice versa for traffic coming off S8 heading to Sieradz and eventually back onto the S8 at the Walichnowy exit


----------



## Chris80678

SRC_100 said:


> ^^
> This section won`t influence transit traffic, just the local. To improve local (in area of Łask, Sieradz etc.) and transit traffic, all sections of S8 between Wrocław and Łódź must be opened. Hoping it`s gonna happen early autumn.


Is an autumn opening for the S8 between Wrocław and Łódź realistic though?


----------



## mcarling

SRC_100 said:


> This section won`t influence transit traffic, just the local.


The transit traffic would take a different route through Łask.


----------



## SRC_100

Which one? No kidding...
There is only DK12 and DK14


----------



## mcarling

SRC_100 said:


> Which one? No kidding...
> There is only DK12 and DK14


On the east side of Łask, a lot of traffic would switch from DK14 to DK12. This would increase traffic on the city streets 9 Maja and Warszawska.


----------



## SRC_100

As I said, the transit traffic can choose only DK12 and DK14 in Łask. Both roads are overloaded. Both meet at crossroads with traffic lights what causes traffic jams. Btw, there is another traffic lights causes the same.



Chris80678 said:


> Is an autumn opening for the S8 between Wrocław and Łódź realistic though?


Yes, there is realistic, but not for sure will happen.


----------



## Kemo

Yesterday, a contract for construction of eastern part of Kraków ringroad (S7) was signed (with Strabag). The stretch will have 3 lanes on each carriageway and includes a 700m long bridge over Vistula river.


S7: Kraków-Igołomska – Kraków-Rybitwy 12 4.5km (August 2014 to July 2017) – project – map


----------



## Chris80678

The S7 bridge over the Wisla river does fit in rather well with the grey concrete brutal architecture of nearby Nowa Huta :lol:


----------



## Janek0

Kemo said:


> S7: Kraków-Igołomska – Kraków-Rybitwy 12 4.5km (August 2014 to July 2017) – project – map


Is it up-to-date viz? Design was to be optimized, as I remember.


----------



## mcarling

Kemo said:


> Yesterday, a contract for construction of eastern part of Kraków ringroad (S7) was signed.


When completed, this will significantly relieve congestion inside Krakow, much of which is due to congestion over the existing bridges.


----------



## MichiH

Chris80678 said:


> So has Łask (DK12) to Róża (S14) opened yet?
> No. http://mapa.targeo.pl/,24,19.2135800,51.5944800?ln=en


31th July 2014? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81504012/Odliczanie-hetman.png


----------



## Kemo

... is just as likely as any other date from today to winter


----------



## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> ... is just as likely as any other date from today to winter


Yeah this table https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...nie-hetman.png isn't set in stone and definitive :lol:


----------



## mcarling

^^
Broken link.


----------



## Chris80678

mcarling said:


> ^^
> Broken link.


Best use MichiH's post for the hyperlink that one works fine


----------



## Rusonaldo

Expressway S8 from interchange Wieluń to Sieradz Południe


----------



## mcarling

^^
Looks like no problem to open those sections of the S8 before winter sets in.


----------



## Kemo

S8 Opacz - Paszków by *Filipbb*

Center of the photo - interchange "Janki Małe"
Upper edge of the photo - completed interchange "Opacz" with S2.
Right side of the photo - DK7.



Filipbb said:


>


----------



## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> S8 Opacz - Paszków by *Filipbb*
> 
> Center of the photo - interchange "Janki Małe"
> Upper edge of the photo - completed interchange "Opacz" with S2.
> Right side of the photo - DK7.


Not much going on here


----------



## Chris80678

mcarling said:


> ^^
> Looks like no problem to open those sections of the S8 before winter sets in.


Still a lot to do before they're ready for opening


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*S3 Szczecin - Goleniów*

The intersection with Ulica Goleniowska has been closed today. See photos;



pmaciej7 said:


> Sfrezowano stare oznakowanie, wymalowano nowe, ale ograniczenia jeszcze zostały.


When will they eliminate the intersections at Kliniska?


DK6-9 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> When will they eliminate the intersections at Kliniska?


When they find money for complex modernisation of this section 
= not soon...


----------



## Voorish-Gdansk

The other question is what alternative is in place to that closed turn?


----------



## Kemo

Voorish-Gdansk said:


> The other question is what alternative is in place to that closed turn?


A: http://mapa.targeo.pl/Mapa_Polski,23,14.7800900,53.4316000?l=6ff713568000aa16
B: http://mapa.targeo.pl/Mapa_Polski,23,14.7703300,53.4362400?l=ba2d052c4f7c5357

It makes the way to Osiedle Załom longer and less comfortable, but this road is supposed to be an expressway, so it can't serve every single settlement along it.


----------



## Kemo

GDDKiA states that S8 Łask - Róża **may** be opened in mid-August. But they are not trustworthy anymore, at least when talking about S8


----------



## Strzala

https://goo.gl/maps/kw7BY







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDPK1Syrooo


----------



## Kemo

Today, contract for design and construction of S5 E261 motorway (route Wrocław - Poznań), section Korzeńsko - Krościna (Rawicz south - Prusice north) was signed. The section is 15 km long and will be constructed by Budimex.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

Acording to this article :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highways_in_Poland
A6 is not completed,so is that last section going to be completed soon ?


----------



## Luki_SL

^^It`s the last section : 








https://www.google.com/maps/dir/53.....4100346,14.7500121,13z/data=!4m3!4m2!1m0!1m0


----------



## Eulanthe

Kemo said:


> Today, contract for design and construction of S5 E261 motorway (route Wrocław - Poznań), section Korzeńsko - Krościna (Rawicz south - Prusice north) was signed. The section is 15 km long and will be constructed by Budimex.


Am I right in saying that this is the first section of S5 to actually have the contract signed between Poznan-Wroclaw? (ignoring the Korzensko-Kaczkowo section)


----------



## Daniel749

Eulanthe said:


> Am I right in saying that this is the first section of S5 to actually have the contract signed between Poznan-Wroclaw? (ignoring the Korzensko-Kaczkowo section)


Yes! 

Here are some updated statistics:


----------



## JanVL

*Lublin bypass*























































http://forsal.pl/galerie/813479,duz...blina-krzyzuja-sie-trzy-drogi-ekspresowe.html


----------



## Chris80678

Massive interchange there on Lublin bypass! Have they completed the embankment repairs further up the S17 between Jastków and Lublin Sławinek to enable it to be opened to traffic?


----------



## Haveblue

They are almost done with it. No doubt they will finish it within declared timeline (which is until end of this month).

This is how it looks now (photo by National Roads and Motorways Agency - GDDKiA):


----------



## Adamus!

So we`ll have S6 :cheers: http://biznes.onet.pl/rzad-wprowadzil-do-programu-inwestycji-odcinki-dro,18490,5650964,1,news-detal


----------



## Capt.Vimes

There are more expressways planned in Poland than motorways. Is this related only with construction costs or is there some other reason?


----------



## Janek0

Chris80678 said:


> So has Łask (DK12) to Róża (S14) opened yet?


Opening on Friday! http://lodz.gazeta.pl/lodz/1,35136,...owa_S8__W_piatek_otworza_kolejny_odcinek.html


----------



## SRC_100

Capt.Vimes said:


> There are more expressways planned in Poland than motorways. Is this related only with construction costs or is there some other reason?


Basically, there is no differences between them, except half profile expressway but there is just few and ultimately only S22. That`s why the price is similar, sometimes expressway is more expensive than motorway.


----------



## rakcancer

^^^
True. Briefly: polish expressways are like motorways just most of them are built along existing road alignment, they have a bit narrower lanes and shorter distances between exits and one more thing they are free for car drivers...


----------



## Kanadzie

Adamus! said:


> So we`ll have S6 :cheers: http://biznes.onet.pl/rzad-wprowadzil-do-programu-inwestycji-odcinki-dro,18490,5650964,1,news-detal


will it follow line of Berlinka?:cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

As a driver, it is difficult to see any design differences between motorways and expressways in Poland. Expressways have a speed limit of 120 km/h, similar to motorways in several other countries in Europe, sometimes even higher. 

The distance between exits is not something that should dictate whether a motorway has motorway or expressway status. Nobody cares about that. 

Most of Poland is fairly flat, so motorways have generally very high design standards in terms of geometry, often better than motorways in mountainous countries. But this doesn't mean expressways are inferior. 

The differences in cost can be attributed to setting, it's not strange that S2 in Warsaw costs much more than a motorway through rural flat terrain. 

They should scrap the expressway status, and upgrade all 2x2 S-roads to A-status and use class GP for super two S-roads.


----------



## Eulanthe

I've said it before, but the S-designation is important in distinguishing tolled roads to non-tolled roads. In theory, all A-class roads should be tolled - yes, for political purposes, some aren't, but the original plan was for them all to be tolled.

The S-class roads also allows them to build lower quality roads while still showing that the road is limited access/etc. In theory, it also means that further cheaper single carriageway S-class roads can be built when there's no demand for a full motorway.

The final thing - the expressway tag also prohibits certain types of traffic automatically without having to mess around with endless extra signs. The S11 near Poznan is an excellent example of this - it's nowhere near suitable for A status, but making it GP-class would also involve endless extra signs to ban undesired traffic.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Examples like S11 show an unrealistic desire to have the highest possible design for A-status roads at all times. 

There are thousands of kilometers of motorway in Europe that are designed inferior to A-status motorways in Poland. Every country has substandard motorways. One can't have an utopian highway network where everything conforms to the highest design standards


----------



## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> As a driver, it is difficult to see any design differences between motorways and expressways in Poland. Expressways have a speed limit of 120 km/h, similar to motorways in several other countries in Europe, sometimes even higher.
> 
> The distance between exits is not something that should dictate whether a motorway has motorway or expressway status. Nobody cares about that.
> 
> Most of Poland is fairly flat, so motorways have generally very high design standards in terms of geometry, often better than motorways in mountainous countries. But this doesn't mean expressways are inferior.
> 
> The differences in cost can be attributed to setting, it's not strange that S2 in Warsaw costs much more than a motorway through rural flat terrain.


I agree with all the points above, but I do not see how the conclusion below follows. The increased lane width and straighter geometry of A-class roads relative to S-class roads justifies the higher speed limits and, in my opinion, the different classification. I think the tolling is irrelevant to the classification.


ChrisZwolle said:


> They should scrap the expressway status, and upgrade all 2x2 S-roads to A-status and use class GP for super two S-roads.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Class GP is similar to an expressway in many countries. For example, a Swedish motortrafikled, or a Dutch autoweg, or a Swiss Autostrasse 

The Polish expressway is more reminiscent of a motorway in other countries. 

Classs GP allows more flexible design standards, a typical item of expressways in other countries. Most 2x2 S-roads in Poland are just de-facto motorways with expressway status.


----------



## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> Class GP is similar to an expressway in many countries. For example, a Swedish motortrafikled, or a Dutch autoweg, or a Swiss Autostrasse
> 
> The Polish expressway is more reminiscent of a motorway in other countries.
> 
> Classs GP allows more flexible design standards, a typical item of expressways in other countries. Most 2x2 S-roads in Poland are just de-facto motorways with expressway status.


Do you think Poland's taxonomy of roads is too complex? You think that three classes of dual carriageway roads is too many?

Would I be correct in understanding that the main difference between S-class and GP-class roads is that S-class roads are limited-access and GP-class roads allow all vehicles?

BTW, I would favor no speed limit on A-class roads from sunrise to sunset whenever the road is dry. I would be reluctant to favor such a rule for S-class roads.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There's nothing wrong with the concept of an expressway. It's suitable for short links or bypass routes that are not connected to the main network. 

However, a majority of the main national motorway network in Poland will be composed of expressways which look like motorways. Which means long-distance traffic in Poland is handled through expressways rather than motorways like in most other countries. 

Furthermore, motorway status does not require a 120+ km/h speed limit all the time. Practically all European countries have motorways with reduced speed limits in urban areas or in mountainous terrain.


----------



## Capt.Vimes

What is a GP class road? What does GP stand for?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

droga główna ruchu przyspieszonego

It's a higher standard road than usual, varying from decent two-lane bypasses to motorway-like roads with narrow shoulders.


----------



## Richard_P

Basic standards for A and S roads can be find here:
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autostrady_i_drogi_ekspresowe_w_Polsce#Parametry_techniczne
and here is comparison for GP roads:
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droga_klasy_GP

And I must agree with ChrisZwolle that motorway and expressway standards in Poland are exaggerated. Motorways have so great parameters that they should have no maximum speed limit with suggested max at 130 km/h while expressways should allow 130 km/h maximum with suggested 110 km/h as some of them mostly on adapted old sections and in hilly terrain have sharper curves. And yet despite that there are and will be build more roads grade separated with highest GP standards which basically should allow 110 km/h (perfect for motorway) yet due to occupancy of motorway and expressway standards they will allow only 100 km/h and if someone decide to unify standard may be lowered to 90 km/h. This wouldn’t have happened if at the beginning A roads would received more moderate standards and whole nationwide network would be build to that while expressways leaved as they should be for infill roads... .


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

I think that Polish network of motorways and expressways is going to be similar as in Germany in the next 15 years .Many motorways and expressways are going to be build and they will be everywhere.


----------



## markfos

^^It won't be, rather sth like 60%-65% of German network density.


----------



## SRC_100

Kanadzie said:


> will it follow line of Berlinka?:cheers:


Nope.



Richard_P said:


> And I must agree with ChrisZwolle that motorway and expressway standards in Poland are exaggerated.


Motorways there are not for sure. It`s common standard: 2x(2x3,75m main line + 3m shoulder). I heard that in Germany and Bulgaria some motorways have higher standard: 2x(2x4m (or 3x4m) main line + 3,5m shoulder).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Lane width is mostly important for trucks. Whether a lane is 3.5 or 3.7 meters wide doesn't make much difference for cars, you can safely drive 130 km/h on either.


----------



## asahi

The situation is similar to Spanish autopista and autovia.

The problem in Poland is that on many maps (incl. Google Maps) the expressways are marked just like normal, single-carriageway national roads, rather than motorways. This can confuse foreign drivers and suggest that Poland has a much poorer road network than it actually has. 

If it was up to me, I'd make them both motorways and only put speed limits on those roads that cannot handle 140 km/h. 
I'd would be far less confusing and you could also simplify the ridiculous sign you see when you drive into Poland, i.e. this:


----------



## Strzala

Yesterday photos from expressway S12/S17 and Lublin bypass:

Subsiding section 2 - repair on completion:



>


Section 3 (Lublin bypass):



> Overpasses above National Road No. 19:


All photos Krzysztof Nalewajko (GDDKiA)


----------



## Chris80678

Looks promising for the whole of the Lublin bypass opening on the second week of September :cheers:


----------



## Haveblue

Nope, entire bypas will be opened end of October. Mid September is the opening date for S17 going to Warsaw (13 km strech betwen existing part and Lublin).


----------



## MichiH

Haveblue said:


> Mid September is the opening date for S17 going to Warsaw (13 km strech betwen existing part and Lublin).


I thought the south/eastern-most section b/n Rudnik and Felin (13km) will be opned in mid September, won't it? The section towards Warsaw has not a length of 13km.


----------



## Haveblue

Yes, but i am talking about 13km strech that will be opened in mid September. 13km comprises Lublin acces way and task No2 of Lublin bypass. Task 3 and 4 will be opened in October.


----------



## Chris80678

Haveblue said:


> Nope, entire bypas will be opened end of October. Mid September is the opening date for S17 going to Warsaw (13 km strech betwen existing part and Lublin).



Good fast in and out access to/from Lublin. Good thinking!


----------



## Kemo

OulaL said:


> Sorry if this has been discussed already, but then again, I know that Poland is undergoing massive road construction projects so the answer might have changed anyway.
> 
> So, what is the fastest/smoothest/best route (whichever way you define one as such) from Lithuania to Warsaw? With road quality, traffic volumes vs. capacity taken into account?
> 
> Signposts say 8 - 61; Google Maps says 8 - 61 - 677 - 8; my own common sense says simply 8, that being a single numbered road and even an E road. And 8 - 61 - 63 - 8 seems also possible.


For road quality check this map: http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/mapa-nawierzchni/mapa-nawierzchnia.png

Unfortunately, E67 from Warsaw to LT hasn't improved much yet.

There are some roadworks and traffic jams on DK61 in Łomża, so probably route via Białystok would be better (especiall that most heavy trucks from LT go via Łomża)

But don't expect much from DK8 or you will be disappointed 



MichiH said:


> I thought the south/eastern-most section b/n Rudnik and Felin (13km) will be opned in mid September, won't it?


It may be opened earlier than section Sławinek - Rudnik, but it depends if they manage to complete the junction Rudnik...


----------



## mcarling

Kemo said:


> For road quality check this map: http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/mapa-nawierzchni/mapa-nawierzchnia.png


The map does not seem to reflect the improvements to the DW677 that were completed last year.


----------



## patakcze

Is GDDKiA going to repair DK1 between Radomsko and Piotrkow?


----------



## SRC_100

^^
Completely? No f... way. For few years (2016-2017) is going to begin construction of A1 at this place. So there is no sense to do it. Just current maintenance.


----------



## patakcze

I was thinking of something like partial upgrade to A-standard because especially the right lane is in catastrofic condition and trucks are slaloming between huge holes. But that's probably not happening.
The rest of the DK1 is quite good though.


----------



## mcarling

patakcze said:


> I was thinking of something like partial upgrade to A-standard because especially the right lane is in catastrofic condition and trucks are slaloming between huge holes. But that's probably not happening.
> The rest of the DK1 is quite good though.


I suppose the best we could reasonably hope for would be an upgrade to S-class standards and perhaps numbering the S1 from Katowice up to Czestochowa. Farther north where you were thinking will be rebuilt as the A1.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^There is no plans to upgrade "1" from Wojkowice Kościelne (interchange S1/1/86) up to Czestochowa to S-class standards.


----------



## SRC_100

mcarling said:


> I suppose the best we could reasonably hope for would be an upgrade to S-class standards and perhaps numbering the S1 from Katowice up to Czestochowa. Farther north where you were thinking will be rebuilt as the A1.


There is no need, a no sense and it takes ages because it is necessary new enviromental issues (DŚU) etc. And because there was announced tenders for all (5?) stretches between Pyrzowice (A1/S1/Katowice Airport) Interchange and Częstochowa (interchanges with DK1 north of Częstochowa). So, it is going to be completed during 2017.


----------



## mcarling

Luki_SL said:


> ^^There is no plans to upgrade "1" from Wojkowice Kościelne (interchange S1/1/86) up to Czestochowa to S-class standards.





SRC_100 said:


> There is no need, a no sense and it takes ages because it is necessary new enviromental issues (DŚU) etc. And because there was announced tenders for all (5?) stretches between Pyrzowice (A1/S1/Katowice Airport) Interchange and Częstochowa (interchanges with DK1 north of Częstochowa). So, it is going to be completed during 2017.


I understand that there are no official plans to upgrade the DK1 south of Czestochowa and it certainly will not happen any time soon. However, the future lasts a long time.

For traffic between Czestochowa and the A4/S1 intersection, the route in question is 10-15 km shorter than the tendered A1 sections which will be parallel. I think it might be worth considering perhaps for the 2030s after higher priorities have been satisfied.


----------



## Chris80678

Let's focus on the here and now. We have many high priority roads hopefully opening before the end of 2014 such as the S17 Lublin bypass, S5 
(Bojanowo-Rawicz), S11 (missing part of Poznań western bypass) and 
A4 Tarnów - Dębica


----------



## SRC_100

Chris80678 said:


> We have many high priority roads hopefully opening before the end of 2014 such as ... S11 (missing part of Poznań western bypass)


I don`t think so this road is going to be opened this year. 

And you forgot about S8 stretches between Walichnowo and Łask


----------



## Chris80678

And you forgot about S8 stretches between Walichnowo and Łask [/QUOTE]

Indeed I did. Shame the S8 between Sieradz and Łask won't be open until 2015

S11 Poznań western bypass sounds like a never-ending saga because of that pipeline


----------



## Kemo

mcarling said:


> I understand that there are no official plans to upgrade the DK1 south of Czestochowa and it certainly will not happen any time soon. However, the future lasts a long time.
> 
> For traffic between Czestochowa and the A4/S1 intersection, the route in question is 10-15 km shorter than the tendered A1 sections which will be parallel. I think it might be worth considering perhaps for the 2030s after higher priorities have been satisfied.


I just happened to make a driving video of this section 






The concept of upgrading this road to S standard seems troublesome.



Chris80678 said:


> Indeed I did. Shame the S8 between Sieradz and Łask won't be open until 2015


There's a chance it will open this year.

____________________

Today, three more tender procedures have started for S6 between Goleniów and Koszalin. Nowa the entire S6 between these cities is being tendered.


----------



## SRC_100

Chris80678 said:


> Shame the S8 between Sieradz and Łask won't be open until 2015


Walichnowy-Łask cointains Sieradz-Łask. So yes, It will be opend this year and it means S8 Wrocław-Łódź all the way without any "breaks" :cheers:



Chris80678 said:


> S11 Poznań western bypass sounds like a never-ending saga because of that pipeline


Unfortunately, You`re right...


----------



## mcarling

Shenkey said:


> why do they have sound barriers in middle of nowhere?


They are to protect the trees from being awakened. The likelihood of the trees being awakened are small, but the consequences could be devastating. 
:nuts:


----------



## Kemo

Shenkey said:


> why do they have sound barriers in middle of nowhere?


You can't tell if it is a "middle of nowhere" just by looking at this photo, there may be houses nearby.

(But there indeed are many places with sound barriers in the middle of nowhere.)


----------



## geogregor

Sound barriers on the photo I posted seems to be there to protect the service area.

Even if there is rationale for that (a little bit doubtful but, let say, we can accept it) in places like that safety and visibility should have an absolute priority. 

If we *really* have to have barriers in places like that they should be transparent. 
Unfortunately they would still obstruct the sight lines as they will be dirty like hell after the first winter. That's why I would be really careful in placing them in such locations.

Sometimes I think that teams which design those roads don't talk to each other. Guys who design the bridges don't talk to the guys who design the embankments and neither of them talk to the guy who design the noise barrier. And guy who design signage must be living on separate planet. :lol:


----------



## čarli1

Shenkey said:


> why do they have sound barriers in middle of nowhere?


Because in Poland some ppl makes a lot of money with these sound barriers


----------



## SRC_100

^^
Don`t think so... that`s because some time ago PL wanted to be more european than EU


----------



## rakcancer

flierfy said:


> It hasn't got anything to do with a lens. The road disappears for a couple of metres 200 m in front of the camera. And that from a camera position 5 or 6 metres above said carriageway. From a drivers position the sight-line is even worse and certainly not fit for a motorway.
> Not to speak of the terrible impression which wavy gradient of the section behind the curve leaves.


From a drivers position? First of all nobody drove that place yet so you are not in driver position yet to tell how it is in reality. Secondly you need to understand how prospective changes by using long telephoto lens. Long linear object like roads get "shorter" so that short bumpy curve in the picture is in fact much longer and much smoother curve. That road below also looks looks so badly build but in fact it is not. Cheers.


----------



## JanVL

A nice comparison from Lublin: September 2012 - April 2014



Haveblue said:


> Stwierdzenie "dawno i niedawno" nabiera tutaj trochę innego znaczenia
> 
> Przedłużenie al. Solidarności, widok z ul. Głównej na trasę w kierunku do miasta.
> 
> 1. wrzesień 2012
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Kwiecień 2014



http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=681732&page=36


----------



## RipleyLV

Damn dat noise barrier looks high as high.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

Again the sound barrier is there without no reasson.


----------



## piotr71

*A4 "Kostomłoty"*

I took this picture last Monday about 14:00 hrs near "kostomłoty" exit. Westbound view.


----------



## mcarling

^^

I'm surprised to see the A4 so busy west of Wroclaw. It will need to be widened to 2x3 before Ukraine joins the EU.


----------



## Kemo

New DK8/DK61 interchange in Augustów. And look, there are no border villages on the signage!



konradb4 said:


> 12.


----------



## Eulanthe

I'm still not sure whether I like the local name rather than the Polish name going on signs. Then again, would anyone non-Polish know where Kowno was?



mccarling said:


> I'm surprised to see the A4 so busy west of Wroclaw. It will need to be widened to 2x3 before Ukraine joins the EU.


I don't see Ukraine ever joining, but rather having something similar to Turkey in the long run. It's just too big to deal with, and can you imagine applying the CAP there?

But yeah, the A4 is like that all the time these days. I'm pretty sure the mess at the toll booths on the A4 are the reason why the GDDKiA are considering electronic tolling, as queues frequently extend to the A8/S8 junction with the A4.

The A4 west of Boleslawiec is still absolutely empty, though. 

As for expanding it to 2x3, as far as I know, the only plan is to put hard shoulders in as well as closing some junctions in order to toll it. An interesting question will be whether they'll toll from the A8 to the future S3 or not.


----------



## Janek0

Eulanthe said:


> An interesting question will be whether they'll toll from the A8 to the future S3 or not.


Yes, after upgrade.


----------



## PovilD

Kemo said:


> New DK8/DK61 interchange in Augustów. And look, there are no border villages on the signage!


 :applause:


----------



## mcarling

Eulanthe said:


> I don't see Ukraine ever joining, but rather having something similar to Turkey in the long run. It's just too big to deal with, and can you imagine applying the CAP there?


Germany, France, UK, Italy, and Spain each have a greater population than Ukraine. The CAP is unsustainable and will anyway have to be abandoned (at least in it's current socialist form) if the Doha Round at the WTO succeeds. Turkey hasn't joined because for the last ten years they have been moving away from the Principles defined in the TEU.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

When we can expect works on second carriageway of a S22 ?


----------



## mcarling

Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> When we can expect works on second carriageway of a S22 ?


I guess not before 2030 unless Kaliningrad becomes independent from Russia.


----------



## Pecel

Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> When we can expect works on second carriageway of a S22 ?


Probably never.


----------



## mcarling

Pecel said:


> Probably never.


The future lasts a long time. Eventually, we'll probably see part or even all of the DK22 west of the S7 upgraded to 2x2 S22. However, almost certainly not before about 2030.


----------



## Pecel

mcarling said:


> The future lasts a long time. Eventually, we'll probably see part or even all of the DK22 west of the S7 upgraded to 2x2 S22. However, almost certainly not before about 2030.


Yeah right. It's simple calculation: chances to build 2x2 = (traffic volume x good relations between the countries) * 100% :tongue2:


----------



## Maks33

mcarling said:


> The future lasts a long time. Eventually, we'll probably see part or even all of the DK22 west of the S7 upgraded to 2x2 S22. However, almost certainly not before about 2030.


In my opinion, S22 should be built in dual carriageway only from Russian border to intersection with A1 after 2030. Eastern part of A2 (from Siedlce to Belarusian border) is needed as late as in 2025.


----------



## Eulanthe

mcarling said:


> Germany, France, UK, Italy, and Spain each have a greater population than Ukraine. The CAP is unsustainable and will anyway have to be abandoned (at least in it's current socialist form) if the Doha Round at the WTO succeeds. Turkey hasn't joined because for the last ten years they have been moving away from the Principles defined in the TEU.


Absolutely agreed about the CAP, but with it playing such a huge role within the EU, you have to wonder if it ever will see any genuine reform. Even if Doha succeeds, I'm not sure France wants the inevitable fight with the incredibly powerful farming lobby there.

Janek, I know that's the theory, but I wonder if it will happen. Of course, vignettes would render the whole point moot...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What is the current AADT on S22? It was only 500 at Chruściel in 2010, but they've opened the border crossing since.


----------



## Janek0

Eulanthe said:


> Janek, I know that's the theory, but I wonder if it will happen.


Why? There were quite certain plans to build toll booths there, but of course as government decided to abolish manual tolls this section will need to be incorporated into the new tolling system.


----------



## Eulanthe

Janek0 said:


> Why? There were quite certain plans to build toll booths there, but of course as government decided to abolish manual tolls this section will need to be incorporated into the new tolling system.


It will, but I wonder if we won't see it kept toll-free for political purposes.

I suppose it depends on what happens with the replacement for manual tolling - it would obviously be included in a vignette scheme, but an electronic tolling scheme?

For what it's worth, vignettes would be absolutely senseless if the private motorways are excluded from the scheme.


----------



## Puležan

Sorry for interrupting the S22 topic, but I'm curious about another thing. Can someone tell me (or put a link in english or at least polish) what was the reason of building really long sections of dual carriageway DK roads during the past, instead of building proper motorways or expressways? I mean, big part (if not all) of DK1 and parts of DK7 and DK8 before 1990 were built in 2+2 profile with at-grade intersections. Also, is there a list of dual-carriageway DK roads from pre-90's period, which didn't have expressway status?

Poland entered into the transition period (1990s) with really small number of kilometres of "real" motorways (few hundreds), but it had few longer sections of 2+2 roads on some major routes (Warszawa-Gdanjsk, Warszawa-Katowice, Gdanjsk-Katowice...). It's interesting to compare ex-communist/socialist countries and development of it's road networks: ex-Czechoslovakia and ex-Yugoslavia had a pretty fair motorway/expressway networks from 70's and 80's, so newly established countries didn't have to build everything from scratch like Poland did


----------



## ka__zet

Puležan said:


> Can someone tell me (or put a link in english or at least polish) what was the reason of building really long sections of dual carriageway DK roads during the past, instead of building proper motorways or expressways? I mean, big part (if not all) of DK1 and parts of DK7 and DK8 before 1990 were built in 2+2 profile with at-grade intersections.


Money/time/resources. They were planned as grade-separated motorways, but they ended up rushed out, so second carriageway was build (also, bypasses here and there) and this was it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The famous Gierkówka.

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gierkówka


----------



## chauffeur

ChrisZwolle said:


> The famous Gierkówka.
> 
> http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gierkówka


Sometimes described as the *in*famous Gierkówka.


----------



## cinxxx

A friend sent me this "funny" video


----------



## Eulanthe

Puležan;116802342 said:


> It's interesting to compare ex-communist/socialist countries and development of it's road networks: ex-Czechoslovakia and ex-Yugoslavia had a pretty fair motorway/expressway networks from 70's and 80's, so newly established countries didn't have to build everything from scratch like Poland did


Did ex-Yugoslavia have anything apart from the sections of motorway between Zagreb-Nis and the "autoput" to the Hungarian border?

I always thought it was odd that they built a fairly acceptable 2x2 from Tarnowo Podgorne to Wresznia, but completely failed to even put a normal 2x2 through Poznan on the north side. To this day, traffic is unbearable on the single carriageway section through Piatkowo in Poznan on the DK92.


----------



## rakcancer

Puležan said:


> ex-Czechoslovakia and ex-Yugoslavia had a pretty fair motorway/expressway networks from 70's and 80's, so newly established countries didn't have to build everything from scratch like Poland did


Czechoslovakia had pretty fair motorway/expressway network in 70 and 80's? They had only one real motorway between Prague and Bratislava and some very short unconnected pieces of expessway alike roads. Also ex-Yugoslavia had one major motorway from south to north... Where do you get your information from?


----------



## McKowski

Puležan said:


> Sorry for interrupting the S22 topic, but I'm curious about another thing. Can someone tell me (or put a link in english or at least polish) what was the reason of building really long sections of dual carriageway DK roads during the past, instead of building proper motorways or expressways? I mean, big part (if not all) of DK1 and parts of DK7 and DK8 before 1990 were built in 2+2 profile with at-grade intersections. Also, is there a list of dual-carriageway DK roads from pre-90's period, which didn't have expressway status?
> 
> Poland entered into the transition period (1990s) with really small number of kilometres of "real" motorways (few hundreds), but it had few longer sections of 2+2 roads on some major routes (Warszawa-Gdanjsk, Warszawa-Katowice, Gdanjsk-Katowice...). It's interesting to compare ex-communist/socialist countries and development of it's road networks: ex-Czechoslovakia and ex-Yugoslavia had a pretty fair motorway/expressway networks from 70's and 80's, so newly established countries didn't have to build everything from scratch like Poland did


It was absolutely enough for the amount of cars back then. Even normal single carriageways were enough. I don´t remember the exact figures, but there were just a "few" cars compared to that, what suddenly happened after 1989.
That was and is still is the big problem, that Poland had a "socialist" road network for a "capitalist" economy...


----------



## Puležan

Eulanthe said:


> Did ex-Yugoslavia have anything apart from the sections of motorway between Zagreb-Nis and the "autoput" to the Hungarian border?
> 
> I always thought it was odd that they built a fairly acceptable 2x2 from Tarnowo Podgorne to Wresznia, but completely failed to even put a normal 2x2 through Poznan on the north side. To this day, traffic is unbearable on the single carriageway section through Piatkowo in Poznan on the DK92.


Yugoslavia had these real 2x2 motorways before 1991:
- Autoput bratstva i jedinstva: Kranj-Ljubljana (~30 km), Zagreb-Slavonski Brod (~190 km), Sremska Mitrovica-Beograd-Niš (~280 km), from the 70's
- Rijeka-Grobnik, 1971. (10 km)
- Zagreb-Karlovac, 1971. (40 km)
- Maribor-Pesnica (today H2 in SLO), (~10 km)
+ many expressways within bigger cities (Beograd, Zagreb, Ljubljana, Skopje, Karlovac...).

Also, there were many half-profile motorways on long-distance routes, without at-grade crossings and with slight curves (which were converted to full-profile motorways recently):
- some sections of today's A1 and A2 in SLO
- rest of Autoput (SLO A2, HR A3, SRB A1 & A3, MK A1 & A2)
- Maribor-Zagreb (today A4 in SLO and A2 in HR)
- Beograd-Novi Sad (today A1 in SRB)
- Zenica-Sarajevo (today A1 in BIH)
- Rijeka bypass (today A7 in HR)
- Rijeka-tunnel Učka-Pazin (today A8 in HR)
- Grobnik-Oštrovica (today A6 in HR)
- Kragujevac-Batočina (SRB)
+ many city bypasses and shorter routes (Osijek bypass, Split bypass...)

sources: http://www.dars.si/Dokumenti/O_avtocestah/Obstojece_AC_in_HC/H2_Hitra_cesta_skozi_Maribor_109.aspx
http://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-put_Bratstvo_i_jedinstvo
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1069431




rakcancer said:


> Czechoslovakia had pretty fair motorway/expressway network in 70 and 80's? They had only one real motorway between Prague and Bratislava and some very short unconnected pieces of expessway alike roads. Also ex-Yugoslavia had one major motorway from south to north... Where do you get your information from?


For ex-YU - see what I wrote above. And let's not go to OT... :cheers1:

For ex-Czechoslovakia - not in the 70's and 80's, but in the moment Czechoslovakia fell apart (70's and 80's were years when intensive road building started). They had very similar principle as Yugoslavia; firstly to build half-profile motorways and later convert it to a full-profile. I think we should calculate such roads too, because in my opinion it's much better to drive on such road than on a "normal" one, because they have slight curves, denivelated crossings, good visibility, no left-turns, so speeds are higher (usually 90-100 km/h). Many routes around Praha were built in that way, if not as dual carriageways from the beginning, and also in Slovakia


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

Also part of todays A3 motorway in Serbia from Sremska Mitrovica to Sid was dual carriageway in 
1989.


----------



## rakcancer

Puležan;116806594 said:


> Y
> For ex-Czechoslovakia - not in the 70's and 80's, but in the moment Czechoslovakia fell apart (70's and 80's were years when intensive road building started). They had very similar principle as Yugoslavia; firstly to build half-profile motorways and later convert it to a full-profile. I think we should calculate such roads too, because in my opinion it's much better to drive on such road than on a "normal" one, because they have slight curves, denivelated crossings, good visibility, no left-turns, so speeds are higher (usually 90-100 km/h). Many routes around Praha were built in that way, if not as dual carriageways from the beginning, and also in Slovakia


I think there is one common thing for Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia: pretty big transit from outside countries, in case of Yugoslavia from Turkey and Greece to Western Europe. In Czechoslovakia between Germany and Austria and southern Europe. Poland was surrounded by "friends" and had even second more sealed Iron Curtain on its east border. At that time we had as I remember only two fully open borders for international traffic between Poland and Soviet Union: Medyka and Terespol. There were few other border crossings but open only to people from eastern block like Kuznica. Also Baltic states were part of Soviet Union. So there was no needs to build East-West highways.I think we had most of the transit from Scandinavia and Finland to southern Europe but it was considerably small. Our economical and political situation was terrible in 80's. Not so many people owned cars. On the other hand we had very well developed railway system...
But if you consider dual carriageway roads we had couple of them too. Some longer one of them were: mentioned already Gierkowka between Warszawa and Katowice, Warszawa-Grojec, Warszawa-Modlin, Gdansk-Sopot-Gdynia bypass, Podwarpie-Myslowice-Tychy (todays S1) and then to Bielsko-Biala and Cieszyn, Katowice-Zory-Skoczow-Wisla, Katowice-Sosnowiec(today S86), Krakow-Myslenice, dabrowa Gornicza-Olkusz, Poznan-Wrzesnia, Lublin-Piaski, Szczecin-Goleniow... etc,etc


----------



## Iluminat

I think Czechoslovakia at that time had a lot more cars per capita than Poland, same with Yugoslavia probably :dunno:


----------



## rakcancer

I don't think so. The differences were unnoticeable. Generally, whole Eastern Europe had much less cars per capita than in Western Europe.


----------



## mcarling

*Tesla Superchargers coming to Poland in 2015*

Tesla just published a map showing where they will build Supercharging stations in Europe in 2015. The first two in Poland appear to be near the A2/S3 and A1/A2 intersections. That seems to me like a good place to start. I guess several more will be built during 2016, probably along the A1, A2, and A4.
http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger


----------



## Puležan

rakcancer said:


> ...
> But if you consider dual carriageway roads we had couple of them too. Some longer one of them were: mentioned already Gierkowka between Warszawa and Katowice, Warszawa-Grojec, Warszawa-Modlin, Gdansk-Sopot-Gdynia bypass, Podwarpie-Myslowice-Tychy (todays S1) and then to Bielsko-Biala and Cieszyn, Katowice-Zory-Skoczow-Wisla, Katowice-Sosnowiec(today S86), Krakow-Myslenice, dabrowa Gornicza-Olkusz, Poznan-Wrzesnia, Lublin-Piaski, Szczecin-Goleniow... etc,etc


That's exactly was I had in mind! So these dual-carriageway DK roads were built to primarily serve commuter traffic around big cities, since there weren't many cars on long-distance routes. The length of roads you mentioned is really not negligible, if you have in mind that its standard was pretty high (having hard shoulders, slight curves...), which cannot be seen in some other countries (like in Croatia where terrain is rough and all main roads were built in a single 1x2 profile, except in and around bigger cities)


----------



## Eulanthe

rakcancer said:


> At that time we had as I remember only two fully open borders for international traffic between Poland and Soviet Union: Medyka and Terespol. There were few other border crossings but open only to people from eastern block like Kuznica.


What was interesting about that era was how few border crossings existed in general. Both Dorohusk and Hrebenne only opened in the early 90's, and many others didn't come into being until slightly later. 

I found one reference saying that there was no border crossing between Lithuanian SSR and the PRL, but another source suggests there was. Any idea?


----------



## rakcancer

There was no road border crossing at that time. I remember myself, we had school excursion to Vilnius and Grodno. We had to cross border by train in Kuznica Bialostocka.


----------



## Kemo

Entering Warsaw from west (A2, S2, Trasa Salomea-Wolica, Aleje Jerozolimskie).






It is amazing to see how road infrastructure improved over the past few years. 3 years ago it wasn't uncommon to waste an hour trying to reach Janki (DK7/DK8) from Warsaw centre. Now in one hour you can reach Łódź.

Enjoy :cheers:


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

East Europe infrastructure is changing fast and some day is going to be as good as West Europe infrastructure .


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Post soviet nations still have a very, very far way to go to reach western infrastructure standards, but they are indeed improving very quickly.


----------



## Kanadzie

Poland is Central Europe and never part of Soviet Union  The A2 and A4 make the German autobahns on the other side of the river look like cow paths  (we ignore DK18)


----------



## mcarling

Kanadzie said:


> Poland is Central Europe and never part of Soviet Union


I believe Innsertnamehere meant nations formerly occupied by the Soviet Union.

I agree with all the comments that Poland is making rapid progress, still has a long way to go, and will eventual catch up with western europe in terms motorway development.


----------



## markfos

Kanadzie said:


> Poland is Central Europe and never part of Soviet Union  The A2 and A4 make the German autobahns on the other side of the river look like cow paths  (we ignore DK18)


Infrastructure in the whole UK looks like a cow paths compared to Polish.


----------



## Chris80678

I agree that Poland has come a long way in terms of more good quality motorways and expressways but there is still a long way to go

But I am confident that with so many tenders for new roads being announced that Poland will achieve an excellent road network by 2020

Thanks to lots of hard work we can look forward to new expressways and motorways opening in the coming weeks and months :cheers:


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

A big number of kilometars should be opened by the end of this year


----------



## Kemo

~190 km of A/S more... that's not much compared to 2012 

+ ~200km of other roads than A/S.


----------



## Chris80678

Tender announced today for the S6 from Goleniów all the way through to just east of Koszalin (which it will bypass to the north)

Also included in this is an announcement for the tender for the bypasses of Wałcz (S10) and Szczecinek (S11)

http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/16127/przetargi-koszalin-walcz-szczecinek


----------



## bewu1

Today, new tenders for construction of expressways were launched: S6 and S-11 Koszalin and Sianów' bypass (appr. 21 km); S-11 Szczecinek by-pass (appr. 12 km); S-10 Wałcz bypass (appr. 18 km); and S-7 Gdańsk-Elbląg section (appr. 39.5 km).


----------



## Deadeye Reloaded

Kanadzie said:


> [...] The A2 and A4 make the German autobahns on the other side of the river look like cow paths  (we ignore DK18)


^^
True. You can see the superiority of Polish highways on a trip from Warsaw to Berlin on the A2 (or on a journey from Lodz to Gdansk on the A1). :yes:

On the Polish side you have the pleasure to stop several times at toll plazas and wait in the resulting traffic jams to pay for the honour to use these awesome roads. :drool:
Germans on the other hand aren't able to experience such enjoyment because their 12.000 km of cow paths are free-to-use. hno:
And on around 6.000 km of these cow paths they can drive as fast as they wish. hno: hno:


----------



## Eulanthe

I'm of the opinion too that the frequent stopping for toll booths is a complete joke. Barrier tolls on a long distance route make absolutely no sense.

It's pie in the sky stuff, but I'd like to see the construction of a third lane on the A2 bypass of Poznan, but built in such a way that the third lane would be only for traffic heading towards Warsaw. They would be able to drive straight through the toll booths without stopping, but the lane would be physically segregated from the others.

After that, the A2 should be a closed system. 

Incidentally, is there any information on tolls for the A2 from Łódź to Warsaw?


----------



## Kemo

Works completed, waiting for opening :cheers:

S5:


destin6 said:


>


S8:


Rusonaldo said:


>


S12:


Luke4Me said:


>


----------



## eucitizen

What about the Milowka section of S69? If I am not wrong without that secion trucks can't use that road, right?


----------



## Kemo

Trucks are allowed on the whole lenght of Polish DK69/S69.


----------



## Pascal20a

The construction of S69 is very fast.


----------



## verreme

Eulanthe said:


> I'm of the opinion too that the frequent stopping for toll booths is a complete joke. Barrier tolls on a long distance route make absolutely no sense.
> 
> It's pie in the sky stuff, but I'd like to see the construction of a third lane on the A2 bypass of Poznan, but built in such a way that the third lane would be only for traffic heading towards Warsaw. They would be able to drive straight through the toll booths without stopping, but the lane would be physically segregated from the others.


There's no need for such a complex system. In Spain there are toll-free bypasses integrated in a closed-toll system. Local traffic is free of charge; you just enter your ticket like in any other toll gate, but you pay nothing.


----------



## Eulanthe

verreme said:


> There's no need for such a complex system. In Spain there are toll-free bypasses integrated in a closed-toll system. Local traffic is free of charge; you just enter your ticket like in any other toll gate, but you pay nothing.


It wouldn't work with the volume of traffic on the A2 - the A2 is really more like a local road between Poznan-Komorniki and Poznan-Krzesiny junctions. I don't think there's even room for a toll plaza on the A2 junctions at that point.


----------



## Kemo

verreme said:


> There's no need for such a complex system. In Spain there are toll-free bypasses integrated in a closed-toll system. Local traffic is free of charge; you just enter your ticket like in any other toll gate, but you pay nothing.


The same case is on A4 near Gliwice - if you travel between those 4 junctions, you don't pay.

But having to pay is not a problem, having to stop at toll barriers is...


----------



## mcarling

Kemo said:


> But having to pay is not a problem, having to stop at toll barriers is...


Exactly. I don't mind paying tolls. Being forced to stop or slow down to do it is insane.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^We have to wait some years (2017), to eliminate toll barriers.


----------



## Janek0

Luki_SL said:


> ^^We have to wait some years (2017), to eliminate toll barriers.


Hopefully. We don't know how the matter with concessionaires will be sorted out yet.


----------



## rakcancer

Visualization of new section of S7 between Gdansk and Elblag:
Exit Żuławy East:


Exit Cedry Małe:


Exit Elbląg West:


Exit Dworek:


----------



## John Maynard

What is the date currently proposed to open S7 from Gdansk to Warsaw, and from Warsaw to Krakow?


----------



## Eulanthe

Janek0 said:


> Hopefully. We don't know how the matter with concessionaires will be sorted out yet.


From what I understand - electronic tolling would make it a formality, as the money could just be passed straight to the concessionaires, who would obviously be quite happy to eliminate the toll booths and the hassle that goes with it. But this would require everyone to get the viaAUTO, which is a bit ridiculous.

Vignettes could be introduced, but I can't imagine that the concessionaires would be happy to give up the income from tolling so easily. The only solution I can see in that respect is to buy out the concessionaires - but I can't imagine Autostrada Wielkopolska giving up a cash cow so easily.


----------



## Janek0

Eulanthe said:


> From what I understand - electronic tolling would make it a formality, as the money could just be passed straight to the concessionaires, who would obviously be quite happy to eliminate the toll booths and the hassle that goes with it.


Yes, but concessionaires will have to agree to this, the government can not impose them anything.



Eulanthe said:


> But this would require everyone to get the viaAUTO, which is a bit ridiculous.


Not necessarily. There are some options, e.g. route declaration with payment in advance for those not possessing viaAUTO. Details should be announced in the coming weeks.


----------



## Kemo

John Maynard said:


> What is the date currently proposed to open S7 from Gdansk to Warsaw, and from Warsaw to Krakow?


Both after 2020.


----------



## Kemo

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/51.7135/19.4595
Trasa Górna (DK1) in Łódź. It will be opened tonight. Today cyclists etc were allowed to test it 



mNiam said:


>


(In case the photos don't appear click the







button)


----------



## John Maynard

Kemo said:


> Both after 2020.


Still a long time waiting...


----------



## GROBIN

Eulanthe said:


> From what I understand - electronic tolling would make it a formality, as the money could just be passed straight to the concessionaires, who would obviously be quite happy to eliminate the toll booths and the hassle that goes with it. But this would require everyone to get the viaAUTO, which is a bit ridiculous.
> 
> Vignettes could be introduced, but I can't imagine that the concessionaires would be happy to give up the income from tolling so easily. The only solution I can see in that respect is to buy out the concessionaires - but I can't imagine Autostrada Wielkopolska giving up a cash cow so easily.


I traveled to Houston, Texas in 2009 and this is the kind of toll I saw:








Two or three lanes for thos having an electronic badge, and 3 or 4 classic toll plazas aside. This is a very good system, that considerably reduces any traffic jam. It is much better than the French télépéage system (where you slow down to 30 km/h), and I believe Poles should take Houston as a model for toll-collecting ...


----------



## Janek0

GROBIN said:


> I traveled to Houston, Texas in 2009 and this is the kind of toll I saw:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two or three lanes for thos having an electronic badge, and 3 or 4 classic toll plazas aside. This is a very good system, that considerably reduces any traffic jam. It is much better than the French télépéage system (where you slow down to 30 km/h), and I believe Poles should take Houston as a model for toll-collecting ...


But this could apply only to existing toll sections, because on new sections there will be no toll booths built. Consequently, government is seeking for system with no manual tolling at all.


----------



## Kanadzie

Poland can simply inspire itself from its own largest city, Chicago 

Electronic pass holder typically just drives either on open road under gantry (no action from driver required) or when toll is on exit, through special lanes (again no special action needed). Driver without pass can exit on a slip road and pay toll with cash at collection station.

The only annoying thing is small exits have only coin-accepting basket and no person or barrier. If you have only paper money or cards, you cannot pay, so you must drive on. System will take picture of license plate and you can get ticket if you pass 2 or more times without paying. But, if you remember where you were, you can pay toll online from home (extra cost). It is needlessly complicated...


----------



## geogregor

DEL


----------



## geogregor

Kanadzie said:


> The only annoying thing is small exits have only coin-accepting basket and no person or barrier. If you have only paper money or cards, you cannot pay, so you must drive on. System will take picture of license plate and you can get ticket if you pass 2 or more times without paying. But, if you remember where you were, you can pay toll online from home (extra cost). It is needlessly complicated...


I almost got caught out at one of those close to the O'hare Airport on my first ever visit to Chicago. Luckily I had some quarters left from my previous trip to Kentucky. 

However I do like the free flow mainline with option of the manual toll lanes for the casual users located on the side of the mainline.


----------



## rakcancer

GROBIN said:


> I traveled to Houston, Texas in 2009 and this is the kind of toll I saw:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two or three lanes for thos having an electronic badge, and 3 or 4 classic toll plazas aside. This is a very good system, that considerably reduces any traffic jam. It is much better than the French télépéage system (where you slow down to 30 km/h), and I believe Poles should take Houston as a model for toll-collecting ...


Actually this becomes slowly a history. Now toll plazas in US are adding express e-zpass lanes like these one below. There is no needs to slow down at all.


----------



## Kanadzie

geogregor said:


> I almost got caught out at one of those close to the O'hare Airport on my first ever visit to Chicago. Luckily I had some quarters left from my previous trip to Kentucky.


I had no coins so I just hit the gas. Next time I go Chicago I take my other car :lol:


----------



## GROBIN

rakcancer said:


> Actually this becomes slowly a history. Now toll plazas in US are adding express e-zpass lanes like these one below. There is no needs to slow down at all.


This is exactly the kind of system I was talking about.

And Janek0 is right - this would be an excellent solution for existing private concessionaries. However, I believe even future toll plazas should be like that. For elderly drivers or for people who are mistrustful of electronic systems.


----------



## Venividi

nice three lane road (2+1). I wish all polish national roads (DK) looked at least like this one.


----------



## Kanadzie

There are so many road markings, signs, flashing arrow sign, and those dangerous-looking sticks in the road, it is almost like Japan :lol:


----------



## rakcancer

If you watched whole video it is not bad at all. Pretty nice stretch of road.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

It reminds me a bit on S37 in Austria.


----------



## GROBIN

Venividi said:


> nice three lane road (2+1). I wish all polish national roads (DK) looked at least like this one.


Actually, quite a lot of Polish national roads look like that, sometimes even better. For instance, DK2 between Mińsk Mazowiecki and Siedlce or DK4 in the Subcarpathian voivodeship (województwo Podkarpackie).


----------



## John Maynard

GROBIN said:


> Actually, quite a lot of Polish national roads look like that, sometimes even better. For instance, DK2 between Mińsk Mazowiecki and Siedlce or DK4 in the Subcarpathian voivodeship (województwo Podkarpackie).


This is not true. Many Polish national roads "DK" are only 2 lanes with very few section in 2+1 configuration. Also, few of them are 2+2, mainly with traffic lights and at-grade intersections on rural areas, as per example DK1 between Piotrkow Trybunalski and Katowice, or DK92 in Poznan area. They do have sometimes - principally on major axes - an emergency lane (mostly 1,5-2 meters wide) on both directions. They often become dual carriageway in main cities.


----------



## Eulanthe

Janek0 said:


> Yes, but concessionaires will have to agree to this, the government can not impose them anything.


Well, if they were promised the same toll revenue without having to operate the equipment or toll booths, I imagine they'd be more than happy to agree. But it's why I don't see vignettes being a reality - it would be politically impossible to impose vignettes without it being for all toll roads. 



> Not necessarily. There are some options, e.g. route declaration with payment in advance for those not possessing viaAUTO. Details should be announced in the coming weeks.


I honestly don't think it's realistic to expect everyone to have either the viaAUTO or to declare in advance. A more sensible solution would be to perhaps consider post-paid tolling - like in some Nordic locations, you would get a bill a the end of the month for all the journeys that you made.

Either way, I have a bad feeling that a move away from physical toll booths is an excuse to toll the S-roads.


----------



## Janek0

Eulanthe said:


> Well, if they were promised the same toll revenue without having to operate the equipment or toll booths, I imagine they'd be more than happy to agree.


Logical reasoning fails here.

If it is as you wrote, why GTC wants to expand toll booths near Toruń next year?
http://torun.gazeta.pl/torun/1,8711...ej_bramek_na_A1__ale_dopiero_w_przyszlym.html

And why Stalexport just expanded their toll booths and right now is replacing all hardware, including cashier boxes?
Anyone wants to buy? http://www.autostrada-a4.pl/-/514


----------



## GROBIN

John Maynard said:


> This is not true. Many Polish national roads "DK" are only 2 lanes with very few section in 2+1 configuration. Also, few of them are 2+2, mainly with traffic lights and at-grade intersections on rural areas, as per example DK1 between Piotrkow Trybunalski and Katowice, or DK92 in Poznan area. They do have sometimes - principally on major axes - an emergency lane (mostly 1,5-2 meters wide) on both directions. They often become dual carriageway in main cities.


Agreed. But the number of such DK like in the video has dramatically increased.

Moreover, around 80% of the DK I have driven on since 2011 are of excellent quality.

I still remember the hard times when traveling between Warsaw and Paris, I spent all day driving to Świecko or Słubice, or how horrible used to be the drive on DK8 Wrocław - Piotrków Trybunalski or on DK46 Opole-Częstochowa. Now most stretches of these national roads are of very good quality and some (shall soon) have the alternative expressway/motorway running in parallel.


----------



## John Maynard

GROBIN said:


> I still remember the hard times when traveling between Warsaw and Paris, I spent all day driving to Świecko or Słubice, or how horrible used to be the drive on *DK8 Wrocław - Piotrków Trybunalski *or on DK46 Opole-Częstochowa. Now most stretches of these national roads are of very good quality and some (shall soon) have the alternative expressway/motorway running in parallel.


I have made this travel from Warsaw a few weeks ago; while the road from Borki Sokolskie (junction of DK8/DK14 and actual start of S8) is very smooth and pleasant till the border, even on the old RAB; as well as S8 or the alternative route by A2, respectively till Piotrków Trybunalski or Strykow. I cannot say the same for the remaining section of DK8 or DK14 (~120 KM), were you often have lots of trucks and traffic, and some sections are in a poor condition (ruts).

Like that one:
https://www.google.fr/maps/@51.335689,18.398696,3a,75y,213.85h,58.08t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1si1mugU1zxTKv80WrNIGJ9g!2e0

or:
https://www.google.fr/maps/@51.350904,19.312442,3a,75y,296.18h,60.9t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sX6m_IndctiBbkLT-wIuK0A!2e0


----------



## Superkot634

GROBIN said:


> Agreed. But the number of such DK like in the video has dramatically increased.
> 
> Moreover, around 80% of the DK I have driven on since 2011 are of excellent quality.
> 
> I still remember the hard times when traveling between Warsaw and Paris, I spent all day driving to Świecko or Słubice, or how horrible used to be the drive on DK8 Wrocław - Piotrków Trybunalski or on DK46 Opole-Częstochowa. Now most stretches of these national roads are of very good quality and some (shall soon) have the alternative expressway/motorway running in parallel.


In good condition is 66% national roads in Poland. 80% - in my opinion, a little exaggerated. Some national roads are in terrible condition.


----------



## Kanadzie

But, there are national roads and national roads... probably 50% of DK roads take 90% of traffic volume on DK roads (surely roads like DK7, DK 8 vs DK 48), are those ones good?

I don't care as long as DK 79 Warszawa - Sandomierz - Krakow is improved as much as possible


----------



## Chris80678

Work finished on repairing S17 at Ciemięgi by given deadline of 28th August :cheers: Opening not far off now :banana:

http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/16141/Zakonczyla-sie-naprawa-nasypu-w-dolinie-Ciemiegi


----------



## Lempsss

What is this lonely yellow strip near Lomza?

http://puu.sh/bnScm/de43ea6b14.jpg


----------



## Kemo

Just some noob added S61 to Google maps even though the exact route is not yet known... and lame Google reviewers from India approved it.


----------



## Kemo

Works on S61 (the so-called Augustów bypass) are also finishing:



konradb4 said:


>


----------



## PovilD

Nice  Btw, I never saw such kind of crashbarriers in Poland, I saw it in Estonian dual-carriegeways is something like that.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

You mean the cable barrier? This appears to be a fairly recent introduction in Poland, S2 in Warszawa has them too.


----------



## Rombi

A1 too.


----------



## Kemo

More good news:
S12/S17 between Bogucin (junction Jastków) and interchange Lublin-Sławinek + the new access road to Lublin (aleja Solidarności) (total 14km) will be opened next Thursday :cheers:


----------



## Chris80678

Bikes get to test it first

http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/16335/Rowerami-nowym-wjazdem-do-Lublina


----------



## Kemo

Interchange Lublin-Rudnik and upgraded DK19 (S19)



Luke4Me said:


>


----------



## Kemo

Construction od S69 - photos by alfsky

Junction Żywiec-Soła (should be named Żywiec-North in my opinion)









Junction Łodygowice









Long overpass









Junction Buczkowice









Junction Wilkowice


----------



## Strzala

Access from Lublin to junction 'Lublin Rudnik' on S12/17/19 Lublin bypass:


----------



## JanVL

Part of the Pomeranian Metropolitan Railway going under the bypass of Gdansk near the Karczemki junction


----------



## Strzala

One of two accesses from Lublin Airport in Świdnik to downtown Lublin:






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUFEpKfRfKs


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

Curently there are no sections of A2 which are U/C,but can we expext soon works on some sections or not ?


----------



## Kemo

^^ Widening of section Poznań Komorniki - Poznań Krzesiny to 2x3 will start in next two years.

Construction of S2 Warsaw-Puławska to Warsaw-Lubelska will start in 2016 and construction of A2 from Warsaw-Lubelska to Mińsk Mazowiecki will probably start in 2016/2017 too.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kemo said:


> ^^ Widening of section Poznań Komorniki - Poznań Krzesiny to 2x3 will start in next two years.


Interesting, I didn't know that. Will this be the first motorway to be widened after construction?


----------



## Kemo

Yeah, it seems so.  A short section of S6 in Gdańsk was also widened to 2x3, but that was because a new interchange was built there.


----------



## Eulanthe

Kemo said:


> ^^ Widening of section Poznań Komorniki - Poznań Krzesiny to 2x3 will start in next two years.
> 
> Construction of S2 Warsaw-Puławska to Warsaw-Lubelska will start in 2016 and construction of A2 from Warsaw-Lubelska to Mińsk Mazowiecki will probably start in 2016/2017 too.


Great news, but it really should be 2x3 all the way to Poznan-Zachod. The traffic is horrific there at peak times now, with solid lines of trucks being absolutely normal.

Getting the S/A2 built through to Mink Mazowiecki will make a huge difference, and should put pressure to get the A2 built through to Terespol sooner rather than later.


----------



## Kanadzie

if its that bad and A2 isn`t even finished, probably should go for 2x4 or 2+3+3+2...


----------



## Eulanthe

The problem is that it's used as a local route, especially between Krzesiny (stupid name, should be Poznan-Nowe Miasto) and Komorniki. I'd actually support sticking a toll on some movements, particularly DK11 South-A2 West and DK5 South-A2 East to discourage the use of the route for local journeys. The toll could be offset against a journey on the mainline - so someone using the A2 for long distance wouldn't be punished.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

Kemo said:


> ^^ Widening of section Poznań Komorniki - Poznań Krzesiny to 2x3 will start in next two years.


That is the Poznan bypass if i am not getting mistake?


----------



## mcarling

Eulanthe said:


> The problem is that it's used as a local route, especially between Krzesiny (stupid name, should be Poznan-Nowe Miasto) and Komorniki. I'd actually support sticking a toll on some movements, particularly DK11 South-A2 West and DK5 South-A2 East to discourage the use of the route for local journeys. The toll could be offset against a journey on the mainline - so someone using the A2 for long distance wouldn't be punished.


It is desired that local traffic use the A2 at Poznan to relieve traffic on the local streets. That's the reason there is no toll.


----------



## Kanadzie

Maybe Miasto Poznaniu should spend money on making itself better roads, DTS style instead of spending it on Youtube videos 

I`m not sure if it is useful to penalize people using the road for local trips, it`s there and they are taxpaying after all...


----------



## Strzala

Today bike opening - section from junction 'Lublin Sławin' (Aleja Solidarności) - to junction Jastków S17 :






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K-IaEqQcJc

Planned opening for car traffic - 25.09.2014


----------



## Kemo

Eulanthe said:


> The problem is that it's used as a local route, especially between Krzesiny (stupid name, should be Poznan-Nowe Miasto) and Komorniki. I'd actually support sticking a toll on some movements, particularly DK11 South-A2 West and DK5 South-A2 East to discourage the use of the route for local journeys.


There is an easier solution - close these junctions.



Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> That is the Poznan bypass if i am not getting mistake?


Yes, but not the whole length - originally it was planned to add 3rd lane from Poznań-West (S5/S11) to Poznań-East (S5) but this plan was abandoned for now.


----------



## Maciek_CK

Kemo said:


> Autoputevi kao hobi said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is the Poznan bypass if i am not getting mistake?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but not the whole length - originally it was planned to add 3rd lane from Poznań-West (S5/S11) to Poznań-East (S5) but this plan was abandoned for now.
Click to expand...

Yes, according to the spokesman of Autostrada Wielkopolska SA, they initially wanted to widen A2 to 2x3 from Poznań Zachód (Poznań West) to Poznań Krzesiny, but GDDKiA didn’t allow it (possibly because then GDDKiA would have to share expenses). That’s why the sections Poznań Zachód – Poznań Komorniki and Poznań Krzesiny – Poznań Wschód (Poznań East) will be widened later.

Bearing in mind the upcoming opening of ZOP (Zachodnia Obwodnica Poznania, S11) and another section of S5 (connecting with A2 at Poznań Zachód interchange) already tendered – in my humble opinion – it is only natural that the whole section Poznań Zachód to Poznań Wschód should be widened to 2x3 in a single shot. Inevitably, it will have to be done due to increasing traffic so I believe it should be done properly the first time.


----------



## GROBIN

Kemo said:


> ^^ You can bypass Warszawa if you travel via DK7. However, Raszyn and Łomianki still remain...


This specific bypass is under construction.

You can still bypass Warsaw via DK50 !


----------



## sponge_bob

I'd say that full motorway bypasses of Warsaw and the north of the Silesian metropolis will make it into Polands plans for the structural funding window after 2020.


----------



## Kanadzie

GROBIN said:


> This specific bypass is under construction.
> 
> You can still bypass Warsaw via DK50 !


DK50 is like that _Tres Grand Contournement de Paris_ that passes through Belgium, Germany, Spain :lol:


----------



## Agusia

Motorway A4 Tarnów - Dębica u/c.
Ready, steady, go... :nuts:


----------



## Kemo

MichiH said:


> The latter contract was signed on Tuesday: http://www.media.budimex.pl/pr/287793/budimex-i-strabag-dokoncza-budowe-a1. Completion time: 22 months. Is there any info about the contract for the 3rd section?


The last contract was signed today, so now the whole section Stryków Tuszyn is under construction


----------



## MichiH

Kemo said:


> The last contract was signed today, so now the whole section Stryków Tuszyn is under construction


Deadline 22 month for all contracts? Completion date August 2016?


----------



## Maciek_CK

That is correct.


----------



## Chris80678

It's been a long time since we have heard anything about the status of works or any updates on opening dates for the S8 between Wieluń (Walichnowy) and Łask. From what I can gather works seemed to be more or less on the final stages on some sections of the road


----------



## Kemo

Wieluń - Sieradz is completed.
On Sieradz - Łask there are still some minor works to do like signage, fences etc. But the road itself is completed.
Latest update from *budowniczy_s*:



budowniczy S said:


> SCHEMAT odc. 5


----------



## Hank Hodinky

So they'll open the whole missing section in one go?


----------



## Chris80678

Hank Hodinky said:


> So they'll open the whole missing section in one go?


That would make sense :cheers:


----------



## Kemo

^^ But it depends on the Łódź department of GDDKiA, don't expect rational solutions :troll:

_________________
*
DK77 Leżajsk bypass* from the contract website


----------



## Chris80678

When is this bypass supposed to be finished and opened to traffic?


----------



## Kemo

Contracted date is January 2015, but Dragados is ahead of schedule (unbelievable :nuts and it probably will be opened before the end of the year.


----------



## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> Contracted date is January 2015, but Dragados is ahead of schedule (unbelievable :nuts and it probably will be opened before the end of the year.


Wow! ^^


----------



## MAG

Ravishingly stunning S8 Wieluń-Sieradz getting ready for business. Won't be long now!












_© *motrs & Rusonaldo*_



.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

I always liked the way bridges over the motorways in Poland look.


----------



## CrazySerb

No tunnels in Poland so they spend cash on bridges


----------



## SRC_100

Amazing night shots of S12/17/19 by *mbed7*



mbed7 said:


> S17 podczas pełni księżyca
> 
> Elizówka
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> okolice 11km, widok na wd-14
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14km, widok na ms-16
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> w Włodawa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i z drugiej strony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i witosa, jedyny oświetlony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WD-21
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i w drugą stronę


A great appreciation for *mbed7*


----------



## bigic

CrazySerb said:


> No tunnels in Poland so they spend cash on bridges


Is this a joke on Poland's flatness? Poland actually has hills in the southern and southeastern part of country.


----------



## Shenkey

>


why is it same level crossing?

Is it just for now, until its open?


----------



## Luki_SL

^^After the new road opening , the railway crossing will be closed.


----------



## Chris80678

Luki_SL said:


> ^^After the new road opening , the railway crossing will be closed.


Much safer for everyone :wink2:


----------



## chauffeur

bigic said:


> Is this a joke on Poland's flatness? Poland actually has hills in the southern and southeastern part of country.


It's only ~25% of Polish territory.


----------



## WB2010

Three longest road tunnels in Poland:

1. Warsaw (western tunnel 930 metres, eastern - 889, opened in August 2003):





2. S69 close to the border with Slovakia (678 metres, opened in March 2010):





3. Katowice (northern tunnel - 657 metres, southern - 650, opened in December 2006):





The longest tunnel in Poland is being built in Gdańsk (two tubes, 1378 metres, will open in 2015)​


----------



## rakcancer

That only proofs Poland is very flat country. You can expect more urban tunnels will be built than on motorways outside of cities.


----------



## Venividi

rakcancer said:


> That only proofs Poland is *very flat* country.


How dare you insult Poland like this. The Netherlands is very flat or Denmark. Poland is just flat (we have higher mountains than Norway though)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Are you arguing Poland is more mountainous than Norway?


----------



## Venividi

Of course Norway is more mountainous but Polish highest mountains are higher than Norwegian highest mountains :smug:


----------



## JanVL

By 30 meters :troll:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_points_of_European_countries


----------



## cinxxx

:lol:


----------



## SRC_100

Yeah... huuuuuuge difference...:nuts:

Ending OT, Poland is not as flat as some think. Let's say Poland is somewhere between the Netherlands and the Czech Republic or Slovakia in relation to the terrain mountainous of ​​the country:


----------



## Strzala

delete


----------



## SRC_100

^^
Already posted on previous page


----------



## Kemo

A contract was signed with Mota-Engil for optimising design and construction of second part of Ostrów Wielkopolski bypass (S11 motorway). Road should be completed in August 2017.

Existing interchange Ostrów Wielkopolski (S11 x DK25):









_Source: GDDKiA_


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Two or four lanes?


----------



## Kemo

~13 km of 2x2 motorway, one new junction. There was a second junction planned on the southern end of the bypass but it will (temporarily) be replaced by at-grade intersection.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

_ - drogi ekspresowej: 2 jezdnie na długości około 12,8 km, _

Should you read 'jezdnie' as lanes or carriageways?


----------



## Maciek_CK

Carriageways.


----------



## Kemo

DTŚ, section G1, photos by *Kuban*



>


----------



## chauffeur

Kanadzie said:


> people from Radom have _guns _:lol:


And 'Sly Hag' ('Chytra Baba').


----------



## Rombi

You said DK12 so still not S12?


----------



## Maciek_CK

S12 is planned after 2020 and that bypass will not be a part of it.


----------



## rakcancer

Briefly:
Southern bypass of Radom in BLUE
Future S12 (one of the proposals) in RED


----------



## Strzala

Kemo said:


> Actually it is not a part of DK12.
> 
> 
> 
> This is a map of Kielce


LOL indeed :nuts:

Excuse me for my mistake.


----------



## Kanadzie

I'm curious about the Radom south bypass vs S 12 plan... it seems excessive, unless south bypass would serve some other purpose in "ultimate" plan?


----------



## PiotrG

ChrisZwolle said:


> Lowering speed limits to reduce noise doesn't help that much. Trucks emit the most noise and they are unaffected by lower speed limits on motorways and expressways.
> 
> Most countries have some kind of 'exemption scheme' where you don't have to build noise barriers in front of every single house in a rural area.
> 
> For example, you won't see noise barriers this extreme elsewhere:


It will be use for eco crops plantations.
Naive rich people eats only their eco food grown in absolute silence, filled with euromonies instead of fertilizer :troll:


----------



## Proterra

chauffeur said:


> ^^ On this map my hometown seems to be located on some very mountainous area.  I want to assure you: there are no road tunnels, the landform makes no problem for farmers, and the land is mostly arable.


No shit. On this map it seems like I live in the Himalayas where in reality the region is only slightly mountainous and not even that high. I'm slightly over 700 m n.p.m. and the highest point in a 20-kilometre radius is 1310 m n.p.m. Nothing very spectacular, just gentle, low-mountain country...


----------



## Maciek_CK

Kanadzie said:


> I'm curious about the Radom south bypass vs S 12 plan... it seems excessive, unless south bypass would serve some other purpose in "ultimate" plan?


Hopefully, S12 will be built in several years but traffic is bad today. I’m not surprised that the city decided to take matters into their own hands.


----------



## Kemo

Kanadzie said:


> I'm curious about the Radom south bypass vs S 12 plan... it seems excessive, unless south bypass would serve some other purpose in "ultimate" plan?


The south bypass is built in low standard compared to S12. It has only 3 km of 2x2 grade-separated road, the rest is plain 1x2 with at-grade intersections. It is meant to serve both local traffic and transit traffic (until S12 gets built). S12 will be located too far from the city to be useful for its citizens.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*S7/DK16 Ostróda*

I see the Italians made another dump offer.

http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/16628/Wybrano-wykonawce-budowy-S7-odc-B-i-obwodnicy-Ostrody

What are the chances of this getting awarded for such a low price? It's more than 30% under the estimated budget and far lower than the other bids.


----------



## SRC_100

^^
The estimated budget has nothing to do with possibility of completion or real price of construction this road, much more important is price difference between offers. Previous, there has been submitted offers close to (or even below) 50% of budget value and has been built well on time. 
So, as you suggested, a cause of concern is only much lower offer value in compared to others.


----------



## Kemo

Rumour has it that the first section of Lublin ringroad (Rudnik-Felin) will be opened tomorrow.


----------



## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> Rumour has it that the first section of Lublin ringroad (Rudnik-Felin) will be opened tomorrow.


Only rumour. Depends on how quickly licence for it's use is issued

http://lublin.gazeta.pl/lublin/56,3...Lublina_juz_czeka_na_kierowcow__ZDJECIA_.html

I think that realistically 1st November is more likely as a date for the entire Lublin bypass opening to traffic


----------



## Haveblue

Well, they just opened it.

P.S. Greetings from Kiev!!!


----------



## Strzala

Chris80678 said:


> Only rumour. Depends on how quickly licence for it's use is issued
> 
> http://lublin.gazeta.pl/lublin/56,3...Lublina_juz_czeka_na_kierowcow__ZDJECIA_.html
> 
> I think that realistically 1st November is more likely as a date for the entire Lublin bypass opening to traffic


Remember that SSC users are better informed than local press


----------



## [email protected]

Seems like a lot of agreements have been signed lately for the construction of new highway stretches. Any chance someone could throw in an updated map with what has been opened, what is under construction.


----------



## Kemo

^^
Always up-to-date, *IgorSel*'s map, available here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81380146/mapka-igorsel.png


----------



## Maciek_CK

This was posted on GDDKiA's facebook page 40 minutes ago...










... but reports are coming in: they're off! 
----------
It's official: http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/16670/Otwarto-wschodnia-czesc-obwodnicy-Lublina . 10 kilometers to go.


----------



## Strzala

We ridin  First 13 kilometres lenght section of S12/S17 Lublin bypass has opened  Second section (marked grey on map) will be opened end of October/ beginning of November :cheers:











This is road we were fighting an waiting for so long :cheers:



mor1 said:


> http://www.lublin112.pl/otworzyli-o...samochody-pojechaly-nowa-trasa-zdjecia-wideo/
> 
> Niebawem maja wstawić film.


----------



## Chris80678

When the final part of Lublin bypass opens next month will the existing DK17/DK12 road through central Lublin itself be re-numbered or just become a local gmina road?


----------



## Maciek_CK

Actually, a tiny section from Sikorskiego to Smorawińskiego will remain a DK (19) until Budimex finishes the western bypass which should occur in 2017. Apart from that, there will be no renumbering and – as far as I know – it’ll become just another local road.


----------



## Strzala

Video from opening first section of Lublin bypass:


----------



## Strzala

^^Photos:



Luke4Me said:


> Źródło: GDDKiA Autor: Krzysztof Nalewajko


and driving video:



Jankes80 said:


> Jest nocny film
> od w. Rudnik do w. Felin, wersja przyspieszona


----------



## Chris80678

Do we have inside information about an opening date for the final part of Lublin bypass i.e. from Lublin Sławinek to Lublin Rudnik? GDDKIA seems rather vague about this


----------



## Kemo

^^
I think they will open it before All Saints' Day. Together with A4 and S8.


----------



## Maciek_CK

In other news, two days ago, the director of GDDKiA’s Warsaw branch (yet again) assured that the Warsaw Ring will be completed by the end of 2020. The only obstacle there might be is lack of environmental decisions which is why they ‘tread carefully’. At the end of the year (in January at the latest) they plan to apply for an environmental decision for S17 (known as WOW – Wschodnia Obwodnica Warszawy / Warsaw Eastern Bypass).The decision for S7 towards Gdańsk should arrive even sooner – it is expected to be issued in November (but potential tender – 2017).

GDDKiA is ready to sign contracts for Marki bypass (S8 towards Białystok) – they are waiting for a green light from Polish Procurement Office and for banks’ guarantees from the contractors. They are also preparing documents for a construction of A2 from Lubelska interchange to Mińsk Mazowiecki – this stretch will be divided into three sections. They already have environmental decisions which – and I quote – ‘were obtained in record time’. At the Polish section, we are still wondering what that means .


----------



## WMS

I'll believe when I see diggers :happy: :crazy2:


----------



## rakcancer

Maciek_CK said:


> .The decision for S7 towards Gdańsk should arrive even sooner – it is expected to be issued in November (but potential tender – 2017).


It seems to easy and too fast. S7 towards Gdansk was one of the last on the list because of problem with town of Lomianki. There were many ideas how to go around that town with new expressways either from the west or from east. Every time there were people extremely unhappy with proposed solution. Government decided to postpone that project so what happens now they are speeding up with that project rapidly?


----------



## Luki_SL

October 16, 2014 the consortium Budimex (leader, 95 per cent.) And Ferrovial Agroman (5 per cent.) signed with the General Directorate for National Roads and Motorways, Branch in Kielce for the construction of the expressway S7 from Jędrzejów to the voivodeship border.
The new expressway section will be 20km long.
http://www.media.budimex.pl/pr/288255/budimex-wybuduje-20-kilometrowy-odcinek-s7


----------



## Kemo

^^

*S7*: Jędrzejów-East – Moczydło 12 19.9 km (October 2014 to May 2017) – project – map


----------



## Strzala

Zelwerowicza street in Lublin (red mark) :


----------



## Kemo

Possible opening date of S8 Walichnowy - Sieradz: 29th October
Possible opening date of A4 Tarnów - Dębica: 30th October
S12/S17 Lublin-Sławinek - Lublin-Rudnik may also be opened in October.

And in November - S61/DK8 Augustów bypass, S69 Bielsko Biała - Buczkowice and DTŚ section G1.
Not to mention some other minor roads, such as bypasses of Głubczyce, Bełżyce, Wojnicz, Jastrzębie-Zdrój, Radomsko, Nowa Ruda, Biłgoraj and more.

It means that over 150 kilometres of new roads will be opened within the next month :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Poland has one of the best motorway construction pace seen in Europe in the past 30 years or so. It begins to match the Spanish building craze of the early 2000s, though I don't think the current build-out plan of 7500 km of motorway/expressway can be seen as excessive. Spain build a lot of secondary motorways to small towns and parallel to toll roads, while the Polish motorway scheme connects only the largest cities. For example there will be far less motorways around Warsaw than around Madrid or Barcelona.


----------



## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> Poland has one of the best motorway construction pace seen in Europe in the past 30 years or so.


It's a shame that average Polish citizens don't realize that, they just keep complaining about crappy roads and lack of motorways :lol:

_____________________________

Modernisation of northern carriageway of Grota-Roweckiego bridge in Warsaw (S8) has finished.

Photo from GDDKiA


----------



## mcarling

Kemo said:


> It's a shame that average Polish citizens don't realize that, they just keep complaining about crappy roads and lack of motorways.


The progress has been amazing, but there are still many crappy roads and a lack of motorways. Another five to ten years and there will be a lot less to complain about.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Rome wasn't built in one day either... 

Most western EU countries took at least 25 years to build their basic motorway network in the 1960-1985 period, and some didn't really complete their basic network until much later (France opened a lot of new motorways in the 1990s, and Portugal built most of its motorways between 1990 and 2010).


----------



## mcarling

Kemo said:


>


Am I correct in understanding that they've just completed Phase III?


----------



## bewu1

ChrisZwolle said:


> Poland has one of the best motorway construction pace seen in Europe in the past 30 years or so. It begins to match the Spanish building craze of the early 2000s, though I don't think the current build-out plan of 7500 km of motorway/expressway can be seen as excessive. Spain build a lot of secondary motorways to small towns and parallel to toll roads, while the Polish motorway scheme connects only the largest cities.


After 2020, when the basic network will be finished, then motorways may be built to smaller towns, like Jelenia Góra, or Nowy Sącz.



ChrisZwolle said:


> For example there will be far less motorways around Warsaw than around Madrid or Barcelona.


Now, Warsaw has only 1,5-2 mln people living in and around the city. So one full motorway ring will be enough  Moreover, in north to Warsaw, there is a national park Kampinos, which will block construction of any new road.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

ChrisZwolle said:


> Rome wasn't built in one day either...
> 
> Most western EU countries took at least 25 years to build their basic motorway network in the 1960-1985 period, and some didn't really complete their basic network until much later (France opened a lot of new motorways in the 1990s, and Portugal built most of its motorways between 1990 and 2010).


But some countries like Italy build their networks in 70's.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

No way!
The same noise barriers are placed on A1 motorway section Vladicin Han-Prevalac in Serbia.I see them every day.


----------



## definitivo

rakcancer said:


> In the meantime in Poland: new noise barriers under construction.... these are from city of Bialystok :bash:



...not bad for "Quickie"...:nuts:


----------



## bigic

Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> No way!
> The same noise barriers are placed on A1 motorway section Vladicin Han-Prevalac in Serbia.I see them every day.


They are because the highway passes through populated area (a small town). But in Poland, they place them in completely pointless areas, maybe to protect the plants and grass from noise?


----------



## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> That doesn't make any sense at all, especially Olsztyn-Południe interchange with DK51 will be one of the busiest interchanges of the bypass. According to some maps posted earlier it will feature an overpass of DK51 across DK16, so why not use that to the full advantage and add a few ramps?



Victory! :cheers:
There will be no roundabouts on Olsztyn-South interchange. It will be a normal cloverleaf, as it was originally planned.
And this change probably wouldn't happen if it wasn't for a group of Polish SSC users. 

Here's how it will look like:
https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/userfiles...ienne-w-projekcie_16817/02_08_W_pd_S51_w1.pdf


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

Check out the number of trucks on this road:


----------



## JanVL

S8 near Wisłostrada










https://www.facebook.com/gddkia/pho...5151383870747/823594544359760/?type=1&theater


----------



## rakcancer

^^ ... in Warsaw...


----------



## rakcancer

Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> Check out the number of trucks on this road:


I bet these trucks are full of polish apples and other stuff forbidden by Russian government :lol:


----------



## GROBIN

rakcancer said:


> I bet these trucks are full of polish apples and other stuff forbidden by Russian government :lol:


And exported to Russia indirectly, allowing Belarus to make more money! :lol:


----------



## Kemo

Get ready for this week's openings 

*Monday*
*DK55*: the last section of Trasa Średnicowa in Grudziądz. 1,4km, 2x2, grade-separated

*Wednesday*
*S8*: Walichnowy - Sieradz-South. 40km, 2x2 motorway
*DK12*: southern bypass of Sieradz. 6km, 1x2
*DW975*: eastern bypass of Wojnicz. 4,7km, 1x2

*Thursday*
*A4*: Tarnów-North - Dębica-East. 35km, 2x2 motorway

*Friday*
*S12/S17/S19*: Lublin-Sławinek - Lublin-Rudnik. 10km, 2x3 motorway

Plus some more short bypasses (*DK42/DK91* Radomsko bypass, *DW384 *Sieniawka and Uciechów bypasses) but I don't know the exact date


----------



## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> Get ready for this week's openings
> 
> *Monday*
> *DK55*: the last section of Trasa Średnicowa in Grudziądz. 1,4km, 2x2, grade-separated
> 
> *Wednesday*
> *S8*: Walichnowy - Sieradz-South. 40km, 2x2 motorway
> *DK12*: southern bypass of Sieradz. 6km, 1x2
> *DW975*: eastern bypass of Wojnicz. 4,7km, 1x2
> 
> *Thursday*
> *A4*: Tarnów-North - Dębica-East. 35km, 2x2 motorway
> 
> *Friday*
> 
> *S12/S17/S19*: Lublin-Sławinek - Lublin-Rudnik. 10km, 2x3 motorway
> 
> Plus some more short bypasses (*DK42/DK91* Radomsko bypass, *DW384 *Sieniawka and Uciechów bypasses) but I don't know the exact date


Wow we are being spoilt :lol:


----------



## mcarling

Last big week of multiple major openings for a few years.


----------



## Chris80678

mcarling said:


> Last big week of multiple major openings for a few years.


That's sad


----------



## Kemo

^^ Not necessarilly, there will (probably) also be one week in November


----------



## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> ^^ Not necessarilly, there will (probably) also be one week in November


But after that very few major openings


----------



## MichiH

Kemo said:


> ^^ Not necessarilly, there will (probably) also be one week in November


???


----------



## Chris80678

MichiH said:


> ???


Not necessarilly, there will (probably) also be one week in November

Think this refers to S61 Augustów - Raczki and S69 Miszukowice - Rybarzowice


----------



## MichiH

^^ 2 projects with 19km in total, that's not a *big* week according to the Polish standard...


----------



## Chris80678

MichiH said:


> ^^ 2 projects with 19km in total, that's not a *big* week according to the Polish standard...


Give it time. Poland will get there


----------



## Kemo

Chris80678 said:


> Think this refers to S61 Augustów - Raczki and S69 Miszukowice - Rybarzowice





MichiH said:


> ^^ 2 projects with 19km in total, that's not a *big* week according to the Polish standard...


Also S8 Sieradz - Łask (unofficial info) and DTŚ in Gliwice. That's almost 80 km


----------



## Chris80678

Zwolle is in the Netherlands!!!! :bash: or am I missing something obvious?


----------



## rakcancer

Obviously you can get there via Slovakia


----------



## Chris80678

rakcancer said:


> Obviously you can get there via Slovakia


But why would a town in the Netherlands be signed when it is right on the other side of Europe to Poland? :nuts: It doesn't even say Zwolle NL
The more direct route would be through Germany surely? Perhaps I am being too logical lol


----------



## geogregor

Chris80678 said:


> Zwolle is in the Netherlands!!!! :bash: or am I missing something obvious?


You are missing Photoshop :lol:


----------



## Chris80678

geogregor said:


> You are missing Photoshop :lol:


I don't use or have Photoshop on my laptop. Guess joke is on me :lol:?


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

Maybe Zwolle is in Poland.


----------



## Chris80678

Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> Maybe Zwolle is in Poland.


Not found Zwolle on any map of Poland online or on paper. It is definitely in the Netherlands


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They probably misspelled Zwoleń.


----------



## Chris80678

ChrisZwolle said:


> They probably misspelled Zwoleń.


But Zwoleń is east of Radom and therefore far to the north of the S69!


----------



## MichiH

Zwoleń (Słowacja)?


----------



## RipleyLV

:lol:


----------



## Luki_SL

Aerial and street view of Drogowa Trasa Średnicowa -DW902 (urban expressway). New section with A1 motorway interchange, some days before opening  : 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucLzgCf5YcY&list=UUBgLhyANxDUJEGQ20cKOLAg&feature=player_detailpage


----------



## Kemo

^^ One week, to be specific 

And what's worth mentioning, it means that a first complete loop of 2x2+ grade-separated roads in Poland will get completed. (Actually about 90-95% of this loop is 2x3)


----------



## Deadeye Reloaded

^^
How long is this ring road? :hmm:

I hope it´s shorter than 196 km.


----------



## Strzala

Luki_SL said:


> Aerial and street view of Drogowa Trasa Średnicowa -DW902 (urban expressway). New section with A1 motorway interchange, some days before opening  :
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucLzgCf5YcY&list=UUBgLhyANxDUJEGQ20cKOLAg&feature=player_detailpage


----------



## SRC_100

Today, GDDKiA signed an agreement with Budimex to build a western bypass of Lublin (S19). This new route is going to be ready on the beginning of the 2017 year. It is 2x2 profile, grade separated expressway and 9,8km long.

PLAN

Source

More about the road


----------



## Maciek_CK

Deadeye Reloaded said:


> ^^
> How long is this ring road? :hmm:
> 
> I hope it´s shorter than 196 km.


The loop consists of DW902, DK79, DK86, A4 and A1, and yes, it’s shorter than Berliner Ring – it’s circa 53 kilometers.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Berliner Ring isn't the longest ring road in the world since 2008, when G1501 around Shanghai was completed (it is 209 km long).


----------



## Kemo

SRC_100 said:


> Today, GDDKiA signed an agreement with Budimex to build a western bypass of Lublin (S19). This new route is going to be ready on the beginning of the 2017 year. It is 2x2 profile, grade separated expressway and 9,8km long.



*S19:* Lublin-Sławinek (S17) - Lublin-Węglin 12 10.8km (November 2014 to November 2016) – project – map


----------



## SRC_100

^^
Are you sure about lenght of this expresway? GDDKiA gives 9,8 km.


----------



## Maciek_CK

Kemo said:


> 35 km section of A4 motorway opens today between Tarnów and Dębica (here).
> It means that A4 is now completed all the way from German border to Rzeszów (~580 km).
> The last remaining section from Rzeszów to Jarosław should be opened in late 2015/early 2016.
> 
> Photo by *esce*


With the latest section of A4 completed, we exceeded *3 000 kilometers of motorways and expressways* in Poland.


----------



## Kemo

1x2 expressways shouldn't count :baeh3: there are 250 km of such roads.


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

Why not? They do count in other countries.


----------



## bad_boy

Now it is official: 34.8 kilometers of A4 (Tarnów - Dębica) opened to traffic.

This means that as of today Poland, with 3012.2 kilimeters of morotways and expressways in operation combined, broke the treshold of 3000 kilometers. 

Earlier, 2500 kilometers treshold was broken in 2013 and 2000 kilometers treshold was broken in 2012.

There are 380,2 kilometers under construction and further 951.2 kilometers in tender. However we do not expect to break the next tresholds (3500 and 4000 kilometers) that soon again; probably in 2017/2018 and in 2020/2021, respectively. Which is still a good pace. 

PS. Yes, this includes also 1x2 grade separated expressways, but on the other hand excludes many 2x2 or 2x3 grade separated GP class roads (such as DTŚ in Silesia). In other words, yes, we can mark today as the marking point for braking the 3000 kilometers treshold.


----------



## Chris80678

Did Wojnicz eastern bypass (DW975) open yesterday too?

Btw, the final part of Leżajsk bypass is expected to open tomorrow


----------



## rakcancer

bad_boy said:


> Now it is official: 34.8 kilometers of A4 (Tarnów - Dębica) opened to traffic.
> 
> [/SIZE]


And this stretch of motorway is in Google maps too. I have to admit Google puts more effort recently in updating their map. At least in Poland...


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

bad_boy said:


> Now it is official: 34.8 kilometers of A4 (Tarnów - Dębica) opened to traffic.
> 
> This means that as of today Poland, with 3012.2 kilimeters of morotways and expressways in operation combined, broke the treshold of 3000 kilometers.
> 
> Earlier, 2500 kilometers treshold was broken in 2013 and 2000 kilometers treshold was broken in 2012.
> 
> There are 380,2 kilometers under construction and further 951.2 kilometers in tender. However we do not expect to break the next tresholds (3500 and 4000 kilometers) that soon again; probably in 2017/2018 and in 2020/2021, respectively. Which is still a good pace.
> 
> PS. Yes, this includes also 1x2 grade separated expressways, but on the other hand excludes many 2x2 or 2x3 grade separated GP class roads (such as DTŚ in Silesia). In other words, yes, we can mark today as the marking point for braking the 3000 kilometers treshold.


What sections are under tender procedure?


----------



## čarli1

Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> What sections are under tender procedure?


Look at page no. 1 where map is


----------



## MonteChristo

Chris80678 said:


> Did Wojnicz eastern bypass (DW975) open yesterday too?



yes-it's open




























It's 2nd bypass of small town of Wojnicz (and de facto part of western bypass of Tarnow)


----------



## Chris80678

To me, these small bypasses are just as important as motorways / expressways; because for drivers they provide faster access to these excellent new roads:cheers:

I look forward to Leżajsk bypass (Stage 2) being opened tomorrow


----------



## Rombi

Strzala said:


> Junction 'Lublin Rudnik' on S12/17/19 Lublin bypass before and after construction:


Just look at this chaotic building development. 

Not hard to imagine how much more expensive and difficult it does to design and build highway, not to mention other problems...


----------



## Kemo

rakcancer said:


> And this stretch of motorway is in Google maps too. I have to admit Google puts more effort recently in updating their map. At least in Poland...


I am responsible for "opening" this road (and yesterday's S8) on Google Maps. And I don't work for Google


----------



## rakcancer

What do you mean by that?


----------



## Kemo

Google Map Maker? Have you heard about that? Anybody can register and improve Google Maps.
Of course it requires experience to draw and open new roads.


----------



## rakcancer

Yes, I heard about that but doesn't that need approval from Google before publishing any changes?


----------



## Kemo

Yeah, normally "opening" a motorway needs to be approved by a person from Google, but not if you know some tricks...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

How much of DK4 has now been renumbered to DK94? Does it only exist between Rzeszów and Jarosław nowadays?


----------



## Luki_SL

^^Yes, DK4 only exists between Rzeszów and Jarosław (~41km). About 645km of former DK4 has been renumbered to DK94.


----------



## Kemo

^^ Not yet. At the moment there is (officially) no DK94 east of Tarnów.


----------



## Puležan

^^And what is the reason for the renumbering scheme in Poland? Motorways and expressways do have different prefix (A, S) so in my opinion it wouldn't be a problem if there are A1, S1 and DK1 at the same time. Such system is adopted in Hungary (for example M7 motorway is parallel to 7 state road, M5 to 5 etc)...


----------



## JanVL

A bridge in Kwidzyn (DK90)


----------



## Strzala

^^ Red bridges are the fastest


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

And this one really looks nice.


----------



## Strzala

Today driving video from S12/S17/S19 Lublin bypass opening 

Junction 'Lublin Sławinek' ---------> Junction 'Lublin Felin' :


----------



## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> Isn't that the A1/A4/DK44 interchange?


It is considered one big interchange, not two separate ones.



Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> And this one really looks nice.


Then check out the 360° view 
http://www.foto-kwidzyn.pl/airpano/most-kwidzyn/


----------



## Kanadzie

Puležan said:


> Well, now I understand the Polish road numbering scheme, but it's still strange to me. I find Hungarian model way better  Maybe it's because I'm used to Croatian or Italian way where every type of road has it's own numbering scheme...


I think it is better system. If you want to go a certain direction, the "important" number gives you the best road. So if you see plate [4] you know, well, the road sucks, but you have no choice. Whereas if you see [A4] you know road is good, and if you see [94], you know you can find a better way to go.


----------



## dexter2

Strzala said:


> ^^ Red bridges are the fastest


They are Ferrari Bridges


----------



## panthiocodin

Strzala said:


> ^^ Red bridges are the fastest


Indeed and this one is as fast as arrow


----------



## eeee.

Proterra said:


> I think he meant the A4... Would by the way be nice if the E40 on the Ukrainian side could be finished all the way down to Lwów, but I doubt we'll see that anytime soon...


I meant S12. Would be nice to visit Radom, Lublin et al. on my way, but without an expressway or highway it's just too tiring.


----------



## JackFrost

Congratulations to your 3000 km network! :cheers: 
I have a question: whats the price/km for building an S-road usually in Poland?


----------



## Kemo

Jack_Frost said:


> I have a question: whats the price/km for building an S-road usually in Poland?


30-35 million PLN, that is 7-8 million €.

__________

Time for a summary of this week. I think nothing new will be opened this weekend 

*Opened motorways:
*S8 Walichnowy - Sieradz: 38,9 km
A4 Tarnów - Dębica: 35 km
S12/S17/S19 Lublin bypass: 10,2 km

Total *84,1 km*

*Other roads:*
DK55 Trasa Średnicowa in Grudziądz: 1,1 km
DK12 southern bypass of Sieradz: 6,3 km
DW975 eastern bypass of Wojnicz: 4,6 km
DW384 Sieniawka bypass: 1,6 km
DW384 Uciechów bypass: 2,9 km
DK77 western bypass of Leżajsk: 3,6 km
DK42/DK91 north-western bypass of Radomsko: 3,2 km
DW416 eastern bypass of Głubczyce: 3,7 km

Total *27 km*

Also works have finished on other major projects:
DK8/DK65 in Białystok (2 km)
DK88 in Gliwice (1 km)
DK94 in Dąbrowa Górnicza (11 km)
and a number of DW roads.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^what about S69?


----------



## Kemo

It should be opened next week, probably on Wednesday. The same as DTŚ.
S69 maybe on Saturday.
S8 in late November.


----------



## pikur

JanVL said:


> A bridge in Kwidzyn (DK90)
> 
> https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net...=3898e74e985c163f385a6028d0ae0723&oe=54D9B83C


Beautiful piece of architectural engineering. :cheers:


----------



## Maciek_CK

Kanadzie said:


> I think it is better system. If you want to go a certain direction, the "important" number gives you the best road. So if you see plate [4] you know, well, the road sucks, but you have no choice. Whereas if you see [A4] you know road is good, and if you see [94], you know you can find a better way to go.


As far as I know, it was just a coincidence that those roads were renumbered to DK9x, simply because these numbers were available. Luckily for us, only four DKs needed renumbering and all respective numbers were available (DK91, DK92, DK94 and DK98). Despite of lack of legislation, it seems quite logical: A1 and DK91, A2 and DK92, A4 and DK94 run (more or less) parallel to each other (for the sake of argument, let’s forget about DK98 and A1/S1 in Silesian Voivodeship). So far, so good.

Now, let’s have a look at other DK9x.
*DK90 is a DK91-DK55 connector; it’s 15 km; it is required by law that a road ensuring cohesion of the national road’s network is signed DK
*DK93 runs from DK3 to the border; it’s 14,5 km; it is required by law that a road to a border is signed DK
*DK95 is an A1-DK55 connector; it’s 2,3 km; required by law
*DK96 is an A1-DK15 connector; it’s 2,1 km; required by law; it has nothing to do with A6
*DK97 is an A4-DK94 connector; it’s 6,5 km; required by law
*DK99 is the last available number in the whole network

There are some other examples of short DKs performing same roles as above but numbered differently, (e.g., DK13, DK68, DK89). It’s all rather chaotic.


----------



## Puležan

^^It seems to me the system is pretty illogical and chaotic to such a big country like Poland...

I don't want to be OT, but it's correlated: in Croatia the law also requires that all motorway and highway connectors, roads to state borders and maritime ports and airports must be state roads. But, there's a strict numbering scheme:
- 1-9 are state highways (not motorways, just ordinary 1+1 roads) that span the whole country; odd numbers are N-S routes (rising from west to east), even numbers are W-E routes (rising from north to south)
- 2-digit numbers are for shorter state routes, usually between regional/county centres
- 3-digit numbers are other routes:
1xx roads on islands
2xx roads to border crossings
3xx state connectors to motorways and other state roads
4xx roads to airports, sea ports, river ports
5xx other connecting roads.
Then, there are motorways numbered from A1 to A13, which are not related to numbers of parallel state roads. Expressways are numbered accordingly to above mentioned rules (so there are D1, D2, D33, D76, D220, D424, D425...), because expressways are usually just certain sections of state roads which have been widened to 2x2 and denivelated :cheers:


----------



## Haveblue

The map on the front page will be changing colours now  good  very good


----------



## m_rocco

About road numbering, has someone a link or a map with old numbering? I remember that from Warszawa to Bialystok was DK18 and GOP was DK15 instead of S1


----------



## Maciek_CK

Puležan said:


> ^^It seems to me the system is pretty illogical and chaotic to such a big country like Poland...


A proper numbering scheme is precisely what we need once we’ve completed the basic network. Until then, it is what it is (e.g., DK12 is one of the longest national roads and runs across the country whereas DK13 is just 17 km long).



m_rocco said:


> About road numbering, has someone a link or a map with old numbering? I remember that from Warszawa to Bialystok was DK18 and GOP was DK15 instead of S1


I went on the Internet and I found this:



piotr71 said:


> I jeszcze coś. [rok 1987]


Bonus: 2000 motorway network seen in a 1971 documentary film:










Look at the size of these interchanges .


----------



## dexter2

If you'd want to go from Warsaw to Gdańsk, you'd have to go through Toruń


----------



## rakcancer

I think more through Bydgoszcz...


----------



## Kanadzie

4000 lanes in each direction :lol:


----------



## m_rocco

Thank you Maciek


----------



## Strzala

Lublin bypass direction 'Lublin Felin' --------> 'Lublin Sławinek':





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBI8z_LbHcE

and few night fotos:


----------



## swiety_76

Jack_Frost said:


> Congratulations to your 3000 km network! :cheers:
> I have a question: whats the price/km for building an S-road usually in Poland?


In last decade average price of building 2x2 expressway was 30-35 mln PLN/ km and motorway about 35-40 mln PLN/ km. 
1 EURO ~ 4,2 PLN
It's only cost of building not construction planning, land etc but building cost are often like 90% of all cost.

But one road isn't equal second road.
Most expensive polish road is section of expressway S8 in Warsaw with cost about 200 mln PLN / km.
Other example is A8 in Wrocław (crossing Odra river) and A1 near Gliwice (mining damages) with cost 100-200 mln PLN / km.
All these roads are in or near highly urbanized area of big cities

From other side some sections of expressway S3 were built for less than 20 mln PLN/ km, A1 25 mln PLN/km A2 20 mln/km


----------



## dexter2

rakcancer said:


> I think more through Bydgoszcz...


I was waiting for that :troll:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Warsaw has new imagery on Google Earth dated 4 October 2014. You need to force it to the top by enabling the historical imagery layer in Google Earth.

You can see the new bridge of S8 across the Wisła, as well as the new S8 alignment south of the city. The Lazurowa extension is also visible.


----------



## Kemo

Other places too 

For example Gliwice (from August, DTŚ visible) or Słupsk (from September, western bypass - DK21 visible) or Przemyśl (from May, eastern bypass visible)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Is this against parking on the sidewalk? Ulica Astrowa, Warsaw.


----------



## rakcancer

Sadly: YES.


----------



## Kemo

Oh, the infamous "patriotic" parking poles.

Check out also "patriotic barriers" that secure pedestrian from wild wheat: https://maps.google.pl/maps?q=kryni...=joJIx4S4vYDohSMDHjytTA&cbp=12,246.02,,0,6.61


----------



## rakcancer

HEHEHE... yes, that is ridiculous! However these are put for different reasons...


----------



## Czas na Żywiec

rakcancer said:


> HEHEHE... yes, that is ridiculous! However these are put for different reasons...


For the same reasons why there are so many acoustic panels everywhere, whoever is producing that crap is making a ton of money. :lol:


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is this against parking on the sidewalk? Ulica Astrowa, Warsaw.


That is a waste of money.They don't need to be so densly placed.


----------



## ka__zet

Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> That is a waste of money.They don't need to be so densly placed.


Clearly you havent seen Polish drivers on their mission to park. :lol:


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

ka__zet said:


> Clearly you havent seen Polish drivers on their mission to park. :lol:


Obviously not


----------



## Eulanthe

Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> That is a waste of money.They don't need to be so densly placed.


Trust me, they do. Polish drivers (aided by a laughably low punishment if caught, which is highly unlikely in such an area) really will dump their cars anywhere without regard to rules.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ you say that like it is a bad thing... look at that photo, a deserted street and deserted sidewalks

might as well at least remove 1 side of the posts so people could park and people would be using the place 

Honestly I found it so refreshing parking in Poland vs. parking in say a North American city where you have so many rules (no way ever you could park 2 wheels on a sidewalk for example). Only Krakow I found really annoying.


----------



## rakcancer

Nobody in North America parks his car with 2 wheels on sidewalk... It is no special rule to obey, just simply nobody does it. BTW, Is this really easier than just parking along the curb?


----------



## Kanadzie

For here in Canada it is definitely illegal, you will get ticket 100% of time. The law (in Montreal for example) is off the curb but no more than 150 mm away from it.

It is much harder to park 2 wheels on sidewalk and you might scratch your fancy wheels, but, in those places Poles park on sidewalk, Americans are not allowed to park at all!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

You mean a motorway from Hel(l)?


----------



## WB2010

rakcancer said:


> New section of S69 in southern Poland, 6.1km:


New stretch of S69 is just 6,1 km long, but along it there are 9,7 km of the high acoustic barriers. Simply great :nuts:


----------



## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> Page 46, project 13, S7 Lubień - Rabka. 3.2 billion PLN for 17 km. That's € 46 million per kilometer. What are the plans for this stretch? Do they plan a long tunnel? It is significantly more expensive than other S projects (except for S2 in Warszawa). Most S projects hover in the € 8 - 12 million/km range.


Tunnel (2 km), many bridges...







WB2010 said:


> New stretch of S69 is just 6,1 km long, but along it there are 9,7 km of the high acoustic barriers. Simply great :nuts:


Guess why?
Houses. Houses everywhere.


----------



## MonteChristo

and802 said:


> to integrate Poland with other nations, firstly Poland needs to be self-integrated (national roads or expressways). once we achieve this level then we can start thinking of EU integration. no the other way around





mcarling said:


> Poland has been integrating into the EU since 1991 when Poland signed the EU Association Agreement and started modifying Polish law to conform with EU requirements. This process will not stop just because some people want to pursue an isolationist road-building strategy (which anyway could not reasonably be financed).



It's good to have harmony in development. Shame that biggest and most important cities like Warsaw Krakow anf Gdansk don't have proper road connection. Economic centre of Poland lies on the line Tricity (Gdansk/Gdynia/Sopot)-Warsaw/Łodz-Katowice/Krakow (Central European Ruhrgebiet). With Eastern economic islands like Wrocław/LGOM(LEginica), Poznan and Szczecin.



I think in Polish interest is to have good road connections with landlocked countries (Czech R., Slovakia and further Hungary, Belarus) because of our Ports.

DCT port becomes European heavyweight. It's already Baltic Sea hub.

Expansion worth 300m Euro started.










Planned logistic centre (by Goodman-partly alredy U/C)


----------



## Venividi

ChrisZwolle said:


> You mean a motorway from Hel(l)?


I was talking about OPAT (TriCity's northern bypass, an extension of the existing Tri-City Bypass) which should go around Rumia and Reda (DK6 in these cities is very crowded (especially in summer months)


----------



## Dantiscum

Venividi said:


> ^^
> no northern bypass for 3city agglomeration hno: (instead they will spend money for useless 'metropolitan' ring road. :weird:


Can't agree with that. Tricity bypass is no real bypass anymore, more like middle inner ring. In rush hours it's one huge traffic jam. A wider ring road is urgently needed.


----------



## Japinta

GROBIN said:


> However, I found no clear evidence of what will happen to the old Suwałki-Augustów road.


It already happened. I drove this road today and there is no '8' signage.


----------



## rakcancer

Kemo said:


> Guess why?
> Houses. Houses everywhere.


lol, :lol: you call this houses worth of building noise screens?

This is where noise barriers belong, HERE (Nederlands):



or HERE (GB):


or HERE (Poland):


Just because there are few houses around motorway, it doesn't mean we have to built automatically everywhere noise screens. Unfortunately in Poland we say: "szlachcic na zagrodzie rowny wojewodzie...". which in very simple words means: I don't give a sh...t about others, I am most important here ...uke:


----------



## rakcancer

Dantiscum said:


> Can't agree with that. Tricity bypass is no real bypass anymore, more like middle inner ring. In rush hours it's one huge traffic jam. A wider ring road is urgently needed.


Both are important and urgent to be build. 
OPAT beacause of extremely heavy traffic especially in summer. Rumia, Reda and Chylonia part of Gdynia are in fact split in half by heavy traffic during that period.
Metropolitan Ring is going to unload heavy traffic on existing Tri-City bypass. When it happens old bypass should be widened from very narrow two to at least three lanes each way.


----------



## Kemo

rakcancer said:


> Metropolitan Ring is going to unload heavy traffic on existing Tri-City bypass.


No it won't. Majority of this "heavy traffic" has a destination point in Gdynia or Gdańsk and will not use OMT (metropolitan ring). OMT will only serve urban sprawl in the Kaszuby region.

Waste of money. We better spend this money on that:


> old bypass should be widened from very narrow two to at least three lanes each way.


----------



## Janek0

rakcancer said:


> Unfortunately in Poland we say: "szlachcic na zagrodzie rowny wojewodzie...". which in very simple words means: I don't give a sh...t about others, I am most important here ...uke:


Is this about drivers who fulminate against the noise barriers because they obscure the scenery?


----------



## POLAMCO

rakcancer said:


> lol, :lol: you call this houses worth of building noise screens?
> 
> This is where noise barriers belong, HERE (Nederlands):
> 
> 
> 
> or HERE (GB):
> 
> 
> or HERE (Poland):
> 
> 
> Just because there are few houses around motorway, it doesn't mean we have to built automatically everywhere noise screens. Unfortunately in Poland we say: "szlachcic na zagrodzie rowny wojewodzie...". which in very simple words means: I don't give a sh...t about others, I am most important here ...uke:


Why you just don't go there and ask them are they happy to live without those freaking barriers? Yes, I want to puke too when I start to read your yelling. I propose move to this kind of place where you'll appreciate the sound of road freight from all over the Europe. 24/7, instead of heavy traffic ban days.

P.S.Poland=/=Holland=/=GB


----------



## Kanadzie

rakcancer said:


> Both are important and urgent to be build.
> OPAT beacause of extremely heavy traffic especially in summer. Rumia, Reda and Chylonia part of Gdynia are in fact split in half by heavy traffic during that period.
> Metropolitan Ring is going to unload heavy traffic on existing Tri-City bypass. When it happens old bypass should be widened from very narrow two to at least three lanes each way.





Kemo said:


> No it won't. Majority of this "heavy traffic" has a destination point in Gdynia or Gdańsk and will not use OMT (metropolitan ring). OMT will only serve urban sprawl in the Kaszuby region.
> 
> Waste of money. We better spend this money on that:


then probably should aim for 3+3+3+3 arrangement or similar. Adding 3rd lane both ways that will last a few months :lol:


----------



## rakcancer

Kemo said:


> No it won't. Majority of this "heavy traffic" has a destination point in Gdynia or Gdańsk and will not use OMT (metropolitan ring). OMT will only serve urban sprawl in the Kaszuby region.
> 
> Waste of money. We better spend this money on that:


What are you talking about? Have you ever lived in Tri-City area? From your post I would say: NO. You have no clue how clogged is Tri-City bypass. 
And YES Metropolitan Ring wouldn't solve all problems but for sure it would redirect all traffic going towards Slupsk, Koszalin, Szczecin + Kaszuby region and would let widen existing Tri-City bypass which is URGENT. 
If you disagree with that, you should come to Tri-City and live here for while. Maybe that would convince you.


----------



## rakcancer

POLAMCO said:


> Why you just don't go there and ask them are they happy to live without those freaking barriers? Yes, I want to puke too when I start to read your yelling. I propose move to this kind of place where you'll appreciate the sound of road freight from all over the Europe. 24/7, instead of heavy traffic ban days.
> 
> P.S.Poland=/=Holland=/=GB


Well, some people in Poland are sick of these barriers.... and I am taking about these who live next to them... Sometimes view of that ugly walls from the windows make people depressed more than noise.


----------



## JanVL

I live 300 meters of a motorway in Belgium with just a field in between and no sound barrier. On a nice sunny day when you want to relax outside, having the wind in the wrong direction, the sound is terrible. But the authorities are unwilling to build a wall in our village, while 2 km's further there is one.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

edit


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't understand why noise barriers need to be so tall in Poland. They are almost uniformly more than 5 meters tall.

For example, this is A28 near Zwolle. There is one house which is located 15 meters off the motorway. Instead of building a 'Berlin Wall' in front of the house, they installed a low noise barrier where you can see through. 

A28 Hessenpoort-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


----------



## MichiH

rakcancer said:


> lol, :lol: you call this houses worth of building noise screens?
> 
> This is where noise barriers belong, HERE (Nederlands):


You compare apples and oranges. I guess the NL motorway was built earlier than the houses around. No one cared about noise when the houses were built. People moved there although they knew that it's noisy there. Maybe because the low rental price. The traffic increased over the past decades.

The Polish S69 is a new motorway. The houses were built earlier in a quite area. It's a totally different situation! The experience and the law are different today.


----------



## Surel

rakcancer said:


> lol, :lol: you call this houses worth of building noise screens?
> 
> This is where noise barriers belong, HERE (Nederlands):
> 
> Just because there are few houses around motorway, it doesn't mean we have to built automatically everywhere noise screens. Unfortunately in Poland we say: "szlachcic na zagrodzie rowny wojewodzie...". which in very simple words means: I don't give a sh...t about others, I am most important here ...uke:


You compare complete different quality living though. The density is not what should be deciding here, the quality of living should be. There are very little areas where you would find such detached houses in the Netherlands with so much space and green around them.

I think the noise reduction is really needed in such area, although the screens could be replaced by other, more esthetic, measures, however that would be even more expensive probably. Don't forget that porous asphalt is used almost everywhere in the Netherlands.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Most rural sprawl and ribbon development seems to be in southeastern Poland. But if you think that is bad, try Belgium. 

The downsides of rural sprawl;
* difficult to build new infrastructure 
* difficult to reconstruct existing roads
* you need much more road mileage per capita
* less efficient land use
* more expensive municipal services

I'm not really against suburban sprawl, as long as they build integrated neighborhoods with a regular density. 'sprawl' is often used pejoratively, but it caters to a demand of affordable and desireable housing. Polish cities, with their many apartment blocks, have a very low birth rate. The GUS forecasts that cities will lose population up to 2050, while the countryside would not lose much. A de-urbanization.


----------



## Karaya

Urbanista1 said:


> omg Polish negativity is so tiring, it is starting to infect international threads.


I understand polish forum members since I'm also upset with insane urban sprawl. But at least polish people are able to build a straight road on the flat land. Something that we are not able to do. It is also true that this type of urban sprawl and high noise standards result in these horrible noise barriers everywhere.


----------



## geogregor

Urbanista1 said:


> omg Polish negativity is so tiring, it is starting to infect international threads. please give me a break and move to a country that is a perfect paradise on earth. I've travelled Poland, Europe and NA far and wide, and I really don't see such extensive sprawl or chaos in Poland. Yes it could be improved and yes they could curb advertising. Try driving outside the old city of Toronto where 3 million live in utter urban sprawl, where you have to drive miles to get to anything. sorry maybe it's just that I am getting too sensitive to exaggerated way Poles express themselves in any language, on the Polish thread and here, so generalized and negative in every way, it seems that they hate their country with an enormous passion, but no one else understands it.


I don't really mind suburban sprawl. It often provides cheap housing for the masses, be it Toronto, Texas or Wroclaw.

But I do mind ugly walls along the landscape in Poland. Even worse, we do build noise barriers bang along the city streets as well as in the middle of nowhere.

I find it particularly strange writing from the UK where shit single single glaze windows and crap insulation (well, often total lack of it) seems to be the norm and yet noise barriers are way, way, way less prevalent.
Then in Poland, where triple glaze windows are nowadays the norm and where we have quite well insulated houses, we also get those long, boring, crap noise walls.

Something, somewhere went really, really wrong along the way....


----------



## salto_angel

Urbanista1 said:


> omg Polish negativity is so tiring, it is starting to infect international threads. please give me a break and move to a country that is a perfect paradise on earth. I've travelled Poland, Europe and NA far and wide, and I really don't see such extensive sprawl or chaos in Poland. Yes it could be improved and yes they could curb advertising. Try driving outside the old city of Toronto where 3 million live in utter urban sprawl, where you have to drive miles to get to anything. sorry maybe it's just that I am getting too sensitive to exaggerated way Poles express themselves in any language, on the Polish thread and here, so generalized and negative in every way, it seems that they hate their country with an enormous passion, but no one else understands it.


Well, it is not negativity. It is just the reality - please take a look at urban planning in any of the bigger or smaller cities in Poland and you'll see it. And it is not only about sprawl. It is about proper planning in the cities, very often in the stict city centers. 

There is even a nice thread showing all stupidities in the planning in Poland: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1660101 Take a look and you'll find out what I am writing about. You may also google for 'Filip Springer' - he shows the bad urban planning just as it is happening.

Edit: Look at this: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=111007875&postcount=469 and please do not tell anymore it is proper urban planning.


----------



## čarli1

salto_angel said:


> Seems you know little about Polish urban planning. It was the best or one of the best in Europe before WW2. Spend some time looking at Polish cities in Google maps and you'll find out it is going out of any standards.


And what kind of standard is good for you? To plan everything to the little details? For me is good planning, that on important (regional/state) roads won't every house have their own exit directly on that kind of roads, because that is very dangerous and also slows traffic. Other than that i don't care where and what they are bulilding on their land And i don't know why are you mentioning urban planning in Poland before WW2...


----------



## Karaya

salto_angel said:


> Edit: Look at this: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=111007875&postcount=469 and please do not tell anymore it is proper urban planning.


This is bad. It's nothing like urban sprawl in Toronto suburbs or Netherlands. Countries like Netherlands and Spain have really good tradition of urban planning but we in eastern Europe lost it after the WW2. It's hard for us now to fix these mistakes.


----------



## JanVL

*S17, Lublin Rudnik interchange*










https://www.facebook.com/gddkia/pho...5151383870747/832216516830896/?type=1&theater


----------



## Kanadzie

that little patch of trees in top left is amusing, it is like they planned to make 3rd loop of clover, so cleared but then decided, ah what the hell, make flyover ramp instead


----------



## dexter2

POLAMCO said:


> Why you just don't go there and ask them are they happy to live without those freaking barriers? Yes, I want to puke too when I start to read your yelling. I propose move to this kind of place where you'll appreciate the sound of road freight from all over the Europe. 24/7, instead of heavy traffic ban days.
> 
> P.S.Poland=/=Holland=/=GB


Have you ever heard about that thing which is called 'urban sprawl costs'?

This picture shows exactly what that means. If you want more information, you can google it up, and I strongly advise you to do that, because now you are just talking like a typical populist.


----------



## maciek9207

New "super roads" in Podlaskie voivodeship.

Mini bypass called "Trasa Generalska" with new fragment in Białystok. (new road from 0:28 to 1:33).




Augustów bypass with new expressway S61 "Via Baltica".


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

I see that Trasa Generalska is getting modernised every year.Also when we can expect motorway from Bialystok to Belarus border ?


----------



## mcarling

Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> when we can expect motorway from Bialystok to Belarus border ?


It's not on either the primary list or the reserve list for 2014-2020, so not before the 2020s.


----------



## JanVL

The road accident statistics for October 2014 compared with October 2013. Nearly 100 people less were killed this year in this month. 

In order:

Number of accidents
People killed
Accidents caused by drunk drivers
Drivers caught while driving drunk


----------



## Strzala

^^ 
A and S 2x2 roads in September 2013: 2376 kilometres

A and S 2x2 roads in September 2014: 2650 kilometres

93 people lives were saved in one month...


----------



## Kemo

Kanadzie said:


> that little patch of trees in top left is amusing


I like this one (on S11 Poznań bypass)











Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> I see that Trasa Generalska is getting modernised every year.Also when we can expect motorway from Bialystok to Belarus border ?





mcarling said:


> It's not on either the primary list or the reserve list for 2014-2020, so not before the 2020s.


Actually such motorway is not on ANY list, there is the so-called "large bypass of Knyszyn primeval forest" instead:


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

I think that motorway is very needed there because
there is a big number of trucks.If you guys don't believe me you can check a video i have posted a couple pages behind.


----------



## Maciek_CK

There are dozens of roads where there is a big number of trucks and we’ve got priorities, such as completing the existing network and/therefore connecting all voivodeships with the capital.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

I know that but this project is not going to be so expensive


----------



## Kanadzie

^^
He is right, don't forget about all the new transport traffic to BY to supply the Byelorussian apples, kielbasa and squid for export 



Kemo said:


> I like this one (on S11 Poznań bypass)


I like it too. I remember seeing it under construction here, then I went and actually visited it 

I was kind of lost so I used 2 loops and went back to Poznan :lol: 

There is a similar forest-interchange I use daily going home from work here in Canada, with decent number of trees, but we don't have that kind of very dense spacing of trees here...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There is a massive new update of imagery of Poland in Google Earth that was released on 8 November.

https://maps.google.com/gallery/details?id=z4f-ZuCLmiKg.kz3qtKM-Oia4

Kurów interchange:









Kępno interchange:


----------



## Rombi

So why not to put more noise barriers? ^^


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## Kemo

bigic said:


> There's almost nobody living there!


Nobody lives in Warsaw?
This is the place: https://maps.google.pl/maps?ll=52.29789,21.02751&spn=0.006955,0.01929&t=h&z=16


----------



## MichiH

Kemo said:


> Nobody lives in Warsaw?


I don't think nobody lives in Warsaw. I've heard about it. Isn't it a small village behind Konotopa?


----------



## bigic

Sorry, I thought that houses are not that close to this sound-walled bridge.


----------



## ziMer

del


----------



## Kemo

Summary of last 30 days. This was probably the record-breaking month in terms of the number of newly opened roads. At least considering the non-motorway ones.

*Opened motorways:*
S12/S17 Lublin bypass (section 4): 13,8 km
S8 Walichnowy - Sieradz: 38,9 km
A4 Tarnów - Dębica: 35 km
S12/S17/S19 Lublin bypass (section 3): 10,2 km
DTŚ sections G1 and Z4: 3 km
S69 Bielsko-Biała - Rybarzowice: 6,5 km
S61 Suwałki - Raczki: 12 km

Total *119,4 km*

*Other roads:*
DW162 eastern bypass of Gościno: 2,6 km
Last section of Koszalin's inner ringroad: 1,8 km
DK55 Trasa Średnicowa in Grudziądz: 1,1 km
DK12 southern bypass of Sieradz: 6,4 km
DW975 eastern bypass of Wojnicz: 4,6 km
DW384 Sieniawka bypass: 1,6 km
DW384 Uciechów bypass: 2,9 km
DK77 western bypass of Leżajsk: 3,6 km
DK42/DK91 north-western bypass of Radomsko: 3,2 km
DW416 eastern bypass of Głubczyce: 3,7 km
DW985 eastern bypass of Mielec (section 1): 4,5 km
DK8 Raczki - Augustów: 21 km
DW933 northern bypass of Jastrzębie-Zdrój: 5,2 km
DK60 eastern bypass of Płock (section 1): 1,6 km
DW653 Krasnopol bypass: 4,7 km
DW764 Połaniec - Tuszów Narodowy: 14 km
DK44 northern bypass of Skawina: 2,1 km
DW867 Prusie - Siedliska: 3,7 km

Total *91,3 km*

And it's just pure coincidence that we have regional elections tomorrow


----------



## nghtm

Highway A4 Kraków - Rzeszów (including newly opened stretch Tarnów - Dębica) in 10 minutes (x8)


----------



## jtybinka

*road fatalists*

I have some thoughts how to decrease road fatalists and I think it would be worth to consider an idea to build roundabouts in villages on DK roads.
Polish drivers skills is a big problem. I travel very often on DK94/36 Wroclaw - Lubin
and it happens always that Polish drivers start to overtake very stupid way.
You can easily see when you can`t overtake because the spaces between lines start to shrink but Polish drivers don`t care and finally they finish overtaking when they are already in the village on crossroads or pedestrian crossings. I can see this always.
I`m often overtaken on crossroads even on right side. Another big problem is TIR drivers , they never go through the village below 70 km/h , for the period of last year I don`t remember even 1 single TIR driver going less then 70, I go 60 km/h but if you go really 50 km/h you can be sure TIR on your back blinking lights.
If there are roundabouts in every village every TIR and car would have to slow down,
the villages are short so 1 roundabout in every village would help a lot and this is not high cost.
I always slow down to 60 km/h when I see white board meaning village and I see people behind me in car looking often VERY SURPRISED , sometime even shaking hands
(maybe asking why this guy slowing down on motorway DK94 - yes TIR drivers treat DK roads as Polish style transcontinental expressways)
I think the problem is Polish mentality , it`s not like Sweden where King of Sweden travels in metro and doesn`t have problem with it , and normal people will choose tram or bus , in Poland 15 year old Passat is often not something you have to travel sometimes but there is lot of emotion around it , it`s hobby, it`s FASHIONABLE for some people driving it`s SPORT and STYLE OF LIFE.
It`s really strange when you see how often Polish people clean cars and even wax it , until last month I even didn`t know what is waxing the car but people do.........this says something about attitude
That`s why there are so many issues on roads and Poland is number 1 dangerous country in European Union

When I drive on DK road through some village I feel that I am a GUEST of the people who lives in this area,
I know their children are going to school and their mothers are going to doctor etc
I know I`m almost in their home but TIR drivers think they are on inter state road , same many other drivers


----------



## Eulanthe

Pretty much spot on. The car is seen as a status symbol in Poland, and driving as aggressively and as fast as you can is somehow seen as a basic human right. I remember one idiot (in a big black SUV, of course) on the verge of having a breakdown because I wouldn't speed up in the city - the more he blasted the horn and flashed his lights, the slower I went. I think I was down to around 20km/h at one point, simply because his behaviour was ridiculous. He finally passed me by driving through a red light - and it shows how these people think. The "40-50 man alone in a big car" part of society is about as dangerous as it comes behind the wheel.


----------



## Rombi

In terms of road fatalities it's always mostly about mentality.
Usually bad roads are an excuse.
Surely polish mentality doesn't help to decrease this bad statistics like Eulanthe mentioned above...


----------



## mcarling

One roundabout at each end of the village would probably suffice.


----------



## Kemo

A contract was signed with Budimex for construction of second carriageway and a new junction on Międzyrzecz bypass (S3 motorway).

*S3*: Międzyrzecz-North - Międzyrzecz-South 21 6.4km (November 2014 to June 2017) – project – map


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What was planned at the S3-DK32 interchange at Zielona Góra?


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

It might be a new alignment of DW282.


----------



## Kanadzie

jtybinka said:


> I think the problem is Polish mentality , it`s not like Sweden where King of Sweden travels in metro and doesn`t have problem with it , and normal people will choose tram or bus , in Poland 15 year old Passat is often not something you have to travel sometimes *but there is lot of emotion around it , it`s hobby, it`s FASHIONABLE for some people driving it`s SPORT and STYLE OF LIFE.*
> It`s really strange when you see how often Polish people clean cars and even wax it , until last month I even didn`t know what is waxing the car but people do.........this says something about attitude
> That`s why there are so many issues on roads and Poland is number 1 dangerous country in European Union


I love Polish people  Does King of Sweden ride metro? I only remember the Prime Minister rode the metro, until somebody shot him in back of head (early 1980's...)

I think the whole issue of TIR through towns and people passing on three is easily solved by improved road network. Why are TIR-ow passing in villages anyway, is there a big factory in the village, no, they are through-traffic, on some major route, this should not be inside villages but on a motorway or expressway (or at minimum bypass...)

Similarly people pass on imaginary 3rd lane because there are only 2 lanes on the road when there should be 4 for that volume of traffic...

Considering the consistent and rapid decline of road fatalities as roads are improved it seems this solution is working correctly and effectively! 

Especially considering it is _much _more likely for average Pole to die because of the rope he tied on his neck than anything related to a wheel it seems not something to worry about.



Eulanthe said:


> Pretty much spot on. The car is seen as a status symbol in Poland, and driving as aggressively and as fast as you can is somehow seen as a basic human right. I remember one idiot (in a big black SUV, of course) on the verge of having a breakdown because I wouldn't speed up in the city -* the more he blasted the horn and flashed his lights, the slower I went. I think I was down to around 20km/h at one point,* simply because his behaviour was ridiculous. He finally passed me by driving through a red light - and it shows how these people think. The "40-50 man alone in a big car" part of society is about as dangerous as it comes behind the wheel.


Hahaha, you complain but you admit you were provoking him too. If you drove normal 50 km/h sure he cannot complain, but if you slow to 20 clearly you were trying to get some reaction, which if we consider road safety, is relatively reckless... I do concur about the 40-60 ish range men to be most aggressive in my experience (and for stupid reasons!)


----------



## Urbanista1

actually Poland does not have a high suicide rate but traffic deaths are among highest in Europe, but not as high as you would think. Still, these rates are dropping rapidly with new roads.


----------



## ka__zet

Kanadzie said:


> I think the whole issue of TIR through towns and people passing on three is easily solved by improved road network.


For gigaeuros value of "easily".


----------



## Capt.Vimes

If you don't want trucks driving 70km/h in the villages you bulid bypasses or motorways/expressways. It's not something specific to polsih drivers. Driving hundreds of kilometers through vilages and towns will get you tired menthally.


----------



## snowdog

geogregor said:


> In Poland, as snowdog said about his friends, people just buy random plot of land and build random house. Then we end up with miles and miles of not really suburbs, nor villages, just random, mostly ugly, houses.


That is subjective, I think ''row housing'' and especially them mid density appartements we have a lot here in Holland ( up to 4 stories high) scream poverty and crampness.

Having an standalone house, with a garage, and a big fence around with with a big ''podworko'' for yourself to do whatever you want without government idiots meddling is a godsend.





> And then try to build decent roads (or public transport lines or even utility lines) through that mess...


Pubbic transport makes zero sense at all outside urban areas.

At best you end up with walls of sound barriers at worst with NIMBYs who want to preserve their silly idea of rural idyll, even if they live in messy, dirty and traffic clogged environment. 


> There is case in Wroclaw where bypass was planned for years and then we got this silly housing built in recent years so the road is now stuck in planning as locals pretend they live in a village. hno:


I personally just want the village space and freedom, the rest is irrelevant for me.


> further from people burning rubbish in their heating units.


 This is exactly the reason I like Poland, no silly garbage collector fares, but simply burn the crap on your own field.



> I just wonder why then so many people migrate from all this lovely rural houses from all around Poland to this "horrible", "ugly" and "crap" neighbourhoods in Holland and the UK


Because THEY might like it ?

I disliked Garwolin when I was small, not because of the houses or ''mess'' or the heavy traffic going straight through the town, but because of the lack of fast internet, a mcdonalds, lack of transport ( to young to drive ) etc...

Now with a McD's, a Tesco, my car, a bit of expressway to get to Wasaw slightly quicker ( the rest is still planned, roundabout at Kolbiel is a **** traffic wise). I'd gladly live in a place like Garwolin or Mierzaczka or Reducin over Rotterdam ( I live in a suburb of R'dam atm).


When Poland gets it's infrastructure sorted further, I'll probably buy a property in a place like that myself to chill there once in a while outside of all the rules and regulations and crampness and density of Rotterdam.


----------



## jtybinka

Capt.Vimes said:


> If you don't want trucks driving 70km/h in the villages you bulid bypasses or motorways/expressways.


That`s just impossible , 
DK94/DK36 goes along A4 (25 kilometres north) so there will be never new road in new corridor
even in Holland with very dense population they don`t build motorways
pararel to another motorways.
According your logic how many kilometres of motorways you think Poland need 
25 000 km or 30 000 km ? It`s not possible anywhere in US , Holland , Germany
There will be always many places with regular 2 lines roads

Building bypasses , there are so many villages that buildng bypasses
would mean building completely new corridor
So how many kilometres of new roads you are proposing ?
40 000 km ( as we have 18 000 km DK roads and 20 000 km DW roads) 

???
When we have even 5000 km of modern roads in year 2020 the number 
of accidents will go down to some level and then will stay on maybe 3000 deaths in a year (hope less)
plus 40 000 accidents
cause there will be still 50 000 km of normal 2 lines roads with high traffic
The only way is that Polish become more civilized , but I doubt it will happen soon

70 km by TIR in village is minimum some of them go faster

I did 180 000 km by car last 4 years but if it`s only possible I take a train
Many times I prefered 8 hour by train then 4 hours on Polish road

Even in CZ when you go to Brno you turn on the radio on Friday and you can hear
"be careful on motorways becasue Polish are going back from Austria for weekend"
"be carefull for Vienna "W" number plate becasue there can be Polish behind the wheel"


----------



## Maciek_CK

Yesterday, a contract was signed with Budimex for optimization and construction of Jarocin bypass (S11). It will feature: S 2x2 ~7,5km, S 1x2 ~2,5km and GP 1x2 ~3km. Cost: € 69,5 million, construction time: November 2014– August 2017.


----------



## Proterra

Kanadzie said:


> Hahaha, you complain but you admit you were provoking him too. If you drove normal 50 km/h sure he cannot complain, but if you slow to 20 clearly you were trying to get some reaction, which if we consider road safety, is relatively reckless... I do concur about the 40-60 ish range men to be most aggressive in my experience (and for stupid reasons!)


If folks like that can be so easily provoked, their driving licence should possibly be held to review. I had a similar situation some time ago, some guy from a small village (RKR plates) in a BMW 7-series was hugging my arse and flashing his lights while I was entering Waksmund wanting me to either move over (on a two-lane village road with sidewalks) or speed up (was already doing 65-70 - in a 50) 

After being stuck with that idiot behind me for 500-600 metres I approached my destination (the house of my in-laws) and the idiot had by this time annoyed me enough that I decided to drop a gear or two instead of tapping my brakes to scare the bejeezus out of him. One of the good things about driving a 1500 złotych beater over a >50K or maybe even 100K BMW is that I'm not worried about fender benders... :lol:


----------



## JanVL

*S5 Poznań – Wrocław: Kaczkowo –Korzeńsko*



Kazusik said:


> http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/17134/Budowa-S5-odc-Kaczkowo-Korzensko-zakonczona


----------



## Eulanthe

Kanadzie said:


> I
> Hahaha, you complain but you admit you were provoking him too. If you drove normal 50 km/h sure he cannot complain, but if you slow to 20 clearly you were trying to get some reaction, which if we consider road safety, is relatively reckless... I do concur about the 40-60 ish range men to be most aggressive in my experience (and for stupid reasons!)


Sure, but I started off by driving 40km/h in a 40km/h zone. What got me was that he came hard up behind me flashing his lights, I ignored him, he started with the horn, I ignored him... and he kept doing it. It was only after about half a minute I thought "screw this" and slowed right down. Honestly, I'm no stranger to speeding, but there's a time and a place for it, and it's not in the centre of the city at 3pm.


----------



## Maciek_CK

*S69 Bielsko-Biała - Żywiec, Wilkowice interchange*










Source and more: http://s69-bielsko-zywiec.pl/index.php?option=com_rsgallery2&gid=46&Itemid=43 .


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*A2: Jordanowo - Poznań Komorniki*


----------



## jtybinka

Another problem was unbelievable stupid government policy starting from 1990.
In 1990 we had 3rd world quality roads in Poland but we had rail tracks
on the level of Western Europe in some aspects. There were almost 9000 km of double track lines and 11 000 electrified tracks. In Sweden there is not much more then 1000 km double tracks , in Holland all tracks is not much more then 2000 km , Malaysia today is dreaming about building at least 1 double track elecrified line from North to South.
I mention double track lines becasue they have usually much better parametres then single tracks, doble tracks have very often vmax 120 km/h , single tracks are often curvy local tracks.
We didn`t have roads but we had great rail tracks that was alternative for roads.
What government did , destroyed rail track with completely no investement and in the result about year 2000 we had nothing , no roads , no rail tracks.
We have TIR on village roads , many other cars and no alternative.
Today with EU preassure they try to repair some tracks.
Even today we benefit with the infrastructure that existed 30 years ago.
After some investment you can go today by train from Poznan to Gdansk in 3 hours , how many hours you need by car , when will be S5 ready ? in 2022 ?
Same with S7 , it will be ready in 2022 maybe but train today can go in 6 hours from Krakow through Warszawa to Gdansk , even S11 - that will be ready in 2030 but they are all the time improving rail track and time from Katowice to Poznan is better every year

I was often looking at number of kilometres of motorways in Holland , UK , Germany
but when I started to compare number of kilometres of rail tracks I was very surprised Poland in 1990 was not worse then Italy , Holand , Sweden and other countries and even the speed 3,5 -4 hours for 300 km on many tracks wasn`t that bad
I understand we didn`t have money , we were not able to build roads , well why at least we couldn`t maintain rail tracks,
the whole goverment strategy was : let people travel by mini buses on village roads, let TIR go through village roads
That strategy I know very well from India and Pakistan. There are only 2 countries in Europe where
you have mini buses everywhere - Poland and Turkey

Even today we have poor road infrastructure , what is the road connection from Krakow to Warszawa ,
it`s difficult to find country in Europe that 2 biggest towns have such road connection , same Warszawa - Gdansk.
Hungary is 10 years ahead of us


----------



## rakcancer

Let's put trucks on tracks! Switzerland can do it...
Seriously you are touching whole huge topic here. Poland is going generally in right direction. There was such a need of developing motorway infrastructure that nobody can say it makes no sense. On the other hand railway system got terribly neglected in last 25 years or even 35 years... But it looks like next 10-15 years there will be lots of investments in railway network. It is happening already. Whole lines between Warsaw and Gdansk, Lodz, Bilaystok, between Przemysl and Krakow to mention most important are reconstructed. Railway station buildings are restored. Unfortunately there will be no return to complete network from before 1990. Lots of minor lines were closed forever...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Motorway investment is much more urgent. Less than 5% of travel in Poland is by train. You can spend money only once, so it makes more sense to invest where it gives the biggest return.


----------



## Urbanista1

jtybinka said:


> Another problem was unbelievable stupid government policy starting from 1990.
> In 1990 we had 3rd world quality roads in Poland but we had rail tracks
> on the level of Western Europe in some aspects. There were almost 9000 km of double track lines and 11 000 electrified tracks. In Sweden there is not much more then 1000 km double tracks , in Holland all tracks is not much more then 2000 km , Malaysia today is dreaming about building at least 1 double track elecrified line from North to South.
> I mention double track lines becasue they have usually much better parametres then single tracks, doble tracks have very often vmax 120 km/h , single tracks are often curvy local tracks.
> We didn`t have roads but we had great rail tracks that was alternative for roads.
> What government did , destroyed rail track with completely no investement and in the result about year 2000 we had nothing , no roads , no rail tracks.
> We have TIR on village roads , many other cars and no alternative.
> Today with EU preassure they try to repair some tracks.
> Even today we benefit with the infrastructure that existed 30 years ago.
> After some investment you can go today by train from Poznan to Gdansk in 3 hours , how many hours you need by car , when will be S5 ready ? in 2022 ?
> Same with S7 , it will be ready in 2022 maybe but train today can go in 6 hours from Krakow through Warszawa to Gdansk , even S11 - that will be ready in 2030 but they are all the time improving rail track and time from Katowice to Poznan is better every year
> 
> I was often looking at number of kilometres of motorways in Holland , UK , Germany
> but when I started to compare number of kilometres of rail tracks I was very surprised Poland in 1990 was not worse then Italy , Holand , Sweden and other countries and even the speed 3,5 -4 hours for 300 km on many tracks wasn`t that bad
> I understand we didn`t have money , we were not able to build roads , well why at least we couldn`t maintain rail tracks,
> the whole goverment strategy was : let people travel by mini buses on village roads, let TIR go through village roads
> That strategy I know very well from India and Pakistan. There are only 2 countries in Europe where
> you have mini buses everywhere - Poland and Turkey
> 
> Even today we have poor road infrastructure , what is the road connection from Krakow to Warszawa ,
> it`s difficult to find country in Europe that 2 biggest towns have such road connection , same Warszawa - Gdansk.
> Hungary is 10 years ahead of us


Poland still has a lot of that railway infrastructure. The electrified lines you speak of are still there, the problem is they were poorly built and poorly maintained during communist era. Doing something poorly is like not doing it at all when public safety is concerned. The rail links between major cities are good to very good and by end of this coming year should be largely very good when Pendolino arrives. The good thing is that Poland still has the right of way for the rail lines and when demand and financial resources align there will be huge investments here and actually that has already started.


----------



## Strzala

Lublin, last access (U/C) from city to bypass ( Poligonowa street --> interchange 'Lublin Czechów') :

Direction bypass:




















Direction Lublin:


----------



## SRC_100

Modernized DK94 in Dąbrowa Górnicza, lighted with LED



fairhair26 said:


>


----------



## ka__zet

ChrisZwolle said:


> Motorway investment is much more urgent. Less than 5% of travel in Poland is by train.


Passenger, maybe. Cargo is other thing alltogether. That's first thing.
Second thing, EU funds split is supposed to be 40/60 between rail and roads. I'm not too picky about single digits, but for now it's something like 20/80 and Polish government was crying how unfair this underfunding of roads was.

And HSR investment, so called "Y" line, was booed out as too expensive, when it was 16% of motorway budget per year or something like this. I'm not fan of HSR as proposed in Poland, but imbalance is imbalance.


----------



## Kanadzie

It seems wrong to have publicly-funded railways though... can't just privatise the entire setup? It is not like the railway is open to any person wanting to drive on it... In Canada the railways were privatised in the 1990's and the companies have thrived and rail business is booming. They have even bought rail lines in the USA, like we are slowly invading and taking over 

It's important to note advantages and disadvantages of rail - it often takes so much time to load and unload and obtain goods by rail it might not make sense. PL is so "spread evenly" and physically small rail shipments inside the country don't seem too logical (but PL to France makes a good case...)


----------



## rakcancer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Motorway investment is much more urgent. Less than 5% of travel in Poland is by train. You can spend money only once, so it makes more sense to invest where it gives the biggest return.


You have to take into consideration that it was not always the case. It is now because cars are much cheaper and railway network in Poland has been in such a bad shape since 1990. 5% of travel in european country with well developed railway network is IMHO a shame. That ratio should be restored to at least average european level. We don't need to build new railways in Poland , we need to rebuild them...But of course it doesn't mean motorways are not needed... we need both railway and motorways for our economy like human needs oxygen for its existence...


----------



## rakcancer

Kanadzie said:


> It seems wrong to have publicly-funded railways though... can't just privatise the entire setup? It is not like the railway is open to any person wanting to drive on it... In Canada the railways were privatised in the 1990's and the companies have thrived and rail business is booming. They have even bought rail lines in the USA, like we are slowly invading and taking over
> 
> It's important to note advantages and disadvantages of rail - it often takes so much time to load and unload and obtain goods by rail it might not make sense. PL is so "spread evenly" and physically small rail shipments inside the country don't seem too logical (but PL to France makes a good case...)


You are generally right but you can't compare US or Canadian railway system to Europe. Population of North America even on east coast is much less dense than in Europe. That is why there will be no real high speed train in N.A. people will use either cars or planes. And congrats Canadians on getting piece of US railways


----------



## sponge_bob

ka__zet said:


> Passenger, maybe. Cargo is other thing alltogether. That's first thing.
> Second thing, EU funds split is supposed to be 40/60 between rail and roads. I'm not too picky about single digits, but for now it's something like 20/80 and Polish government was crying how unfair this underfunding of roads was.


Governments should be allow to decide the splits/priorities themselves, not the EU. 

That 60/40 rule is fine in Germany which has almost completed its motorway network or Holland which has completed its network.

But the train should ALWAYS beat the car from Warsaw to Berlin ( centres) and it does not nowadays and that points to underinvestment. It should beat the car by an hour at least on a run like that. Try beating the train London - Paris in a car.  

This is an argument for rail investment along the A2 and A4 corridors, I have no opinion on the rest of the network as I know nothing of it.


----------



## ka__zet

Kanadzie said:


> It seems wrong to have publicly-funded railways though... can't just privatise the entire setup?


Right after roads, waterways and airspace. 



sponge_bob said:


> Governments should be allow to decide the splits/priorities themselves, not the EU.


Get EU funds, play by EU rules. Don't want the rules? Wave goodbye to funds. Any other way, and we won't have any nice things.


----------



## sponge_bob

ka__zet said:


> Get EU funds, play by EU rules. Don't want the rules? Wave goodbye to funds. Any other way, and we won't have any nice things.


EU Rules are designed to divert EU Transport funds to expensive High Speed rail tunnels under the Alps like the Brenner Base Project. Follow the money!


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Kanadzie said:


> It seems wrong to have publicly-funded railways though... can't just privatise the entire setup? It is not like the railway is open to any person wanting to drive on it... In Canada the railways were privatised in the 1990's and the companies have thrived and rail business is booming. They have even bought rail lines in the USA, like we are slowly invading and taking over
> 
> It's important to note advantages and disadvantages of rail - it often takes so much time to load and unload and obtain goods by rail it might not make sense. PL is so "spread evenly" and physically small rail shipments inside the country don't seem too logical (but PL to France makes a good case...)


passenger rail is very much still a public institution in canada. Freight rail was privatized in the 1990's, which really makes sense. Now of course this has lead to a mass abandonment of rail lines across the country as the not profitable freight lines get cut.

European freight rail is very, very different than North American freight rail. North American freight rail actually carries much more than European freight does, the euro rail network is geared more towards passenger travel while North American (largely) private ownership of trackage means that freight is king with passenger service relegated to the sidelines.

freight is also used largely for long distance hauls, I.E. Chicago - NYC. only intercity shipping, trucks still do the final couple miles within the cities. CN and CP have only 2 distribution centres in Toronto.

Freight is much cheaper than trucking it as well which means cargo which isn't time valuable is usually done by rail. (cars, oil, wheat, etc.)

Canada's passenger rail system is not only publicly run, but expanding. We are finally planning our first HSR line.

freight shipping in Poland would have to be internationally oriented, shipping between cities would largely be done by trucks.



Eastern Europe badly needs to get its motorway network built out, Western Europes network is done and can afford to spend it on rail upgrades, but Poland needs a motorway network first IMO. Just don't over-do it like Spain and Portugal did.


----------



## JanVL

*S69 Bielsko-Biała - Żywiec*










































http://www.gorpol.pl/?site=77&artykul=1016#powieksz


----------



## JanVL

*S69 Bielsko-Biała - Żywiec*























































http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=429804&page=467


----------



## JanVL

*Gdańsk: Tunnel under the Martwa Wisła*




























http://trojmiasto.gazeta.pl/trojmia...ycja_w_historii_Gdanska_z_lotu_ptaka.html?i=0


----------



## JanVL

*S69 Żywiec – Zwardoń (SK)*





































http://zywiec.naszemiasto.pl/artyku...rzez,2442241,artgal,10801939,t,id,tm,zid.html


----------



## Chris80678

Hopefully by the end of next week Wrocław will have almost a complete uninterrupted stretch of expressway linking it with Warsaw (S8) - that is something to celebrate! :cheers:


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

Chris80678 said:


> Hopefully by the end of next week Wroclaw will have almost a complete uninterrupted stretch of expressway linking it with Warsaw (S8) - that is something to celebrate! :cheers:


I would rather say Łódź instead of Warsaw...


----------



## Chris80678

Jakub Warszauer said:


> I would rather say Łódź instead of Warsaw...


So the S8 from Piotrków Trybunalski to Mszczonów doesn't count now? I think the S8 between Mszczonów to the outskirts of Warsaw is under tender?


----------



## MichiH

^^ No, because there is a gap near Tuszyn...


----------



## Chris80678

MichiH said:


> ^^ No, because there is a gap near Tuszyn...


Which will eventually be filled by the A1 motorway :wink2:


----------



## MichiH

^^ By the end of next week?


----------



## Chris80678

MichiH said:


> ^^ By the end of next week?


That is what is being stated as a possibility on the Polish forum: [S8] Walichnowy - Łódź (Sieradz - Łask otwarcie 28.XI ?), although opening date may move to Sunday 30th November


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

Bike driving on S11:


----------



## Chris80678

Is that the part of the S11 where the oil pipeline is?


----------



## SRC_100

^^
Not sure, but pipes are already covered.


----------



## Kemo

Chris80678 said:


> Hopefully by the end of next week Wrocław will have almost a complete uninterrupted stretch of expressway linking it with Warsaw (S8) - that is something to celebrate! :cheers:


By the end of next week there will still be a 30km gap between S14 and A2: https://maps.google.pl/maps?saddr=D...;FVoMGAMd-nwoAQ&mra=dme&mrsp=1&sz=10&t=m&z=10

Uninterrupted motorway connection from Wrocław to Warszawa will be completed in 2016 with the opening of A1.


----------



## Maciek_CK

^^... and it'll be more efficient to use A2/A1/S8 to get from Warsaw to Wrocław rather than S8 alone (fair enough, along with A1 ), even though these parts of motorways will eventually be tolled.


----------



## MichiH

Kemo said:


> Uninterrupted motorway connection from Wrocław to Warszawa will be completed in 2016 with the opening of A1.


It already exists: A4, A13, A10, A12, A2


----------



## Maciek_CK

^^The same was pointed out to me when I said there is no such a connection between Gdańsk and Kraków.



noncek said:


> PS. Już nawet DZISIAJ można, i to SAMYMI AUTOSTRADAMI: http://goo.gl/maps/e6ugM


Why am I being so obtuse :bash: ?


----------



## Kemo

MichiH said:


> It already exists: A4, A13, A10, A12, A2


A4 does not meet motorway standards :baeh3:

S8 Trasa Salomea-Wolica 8 months after construction start:
photo by *teokryt*


----------



## MonteChristo

Gierkówka in early 90's










source: GDDKiA


----------



## piotr71

MonteChristo said:


> Gierkówka in early 90's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> source: GDDKiA


A car trying to cross Southbound carriageway is FSO Polonez Atu, introduced in 1996, so, I'd rather say; late nighties  I know this road very well from that period, mainly because of running a small business back then, which required visiting Warsaw at least once a week. I am saying that only to turn your attention to the bus stop and actually females present in it. I bet, they were not regular passengers  They were same part of "gierkówka" infrastructure in the late 90's as... let's say lamp posts, particularly near the forest.


----------



## Kemo

Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> The south carriageway is in really bad condition i really don't understand why they don't reconstruct it .





rakcancer said:


> there is not that heavy traffic on DK18 comparing to other places but for god's sake it is a first thing drivers from abroad see entering our country from Germany side... it is really a shame...


They should just close the southern carriageway and make the northern bidirectional. Problem solved.


----------



## mcarling

Kemo said:


> They should just close the southern carriageway and make the northern bidirectional. Problem solved.


I disagree 100%. First, it would allow the bureaucrats to consider the problem solved and never rebuild the southern carriageway. Second, the current arrangement is indisputably better for westbound drivers than your proposal. For eastbound drivers, it is certainly safer to have two lanes separated from oncoming traffic than to share two lanes with oncoming traffic -- especially with Polish overtaking habits.


----------



## rakcancer

mcarling is right. There is so many examples of temporary solutions in Poland that lasts forever.


----------



## Kemo

Because a Murphy law states that temporary solutions are the most permanent. Especially in this country kay:


----------



## MajKeR_

piotr71 said:


> A car trying to cross Southbound carriageway is FSO Polonez Atu, introduced in 1996, so, I'd rather say; late nighties  I know this road very well from that period, mainly because of running a small business back then, which required visiting Warsaw at least once a week. I am saying that only to turn your attention to the bus stop and actually females present in it. I bet, they were not regular passengers  They were same part of "gierkówka" infrastructure in the late 90's as... let's say lamp posts, particularly near the forest.


I guessed it was classic Caro, but indeed, it's Atu. But in first version (there were two types of fronts produced, first from January 1996 to March 1997, second from April 1997 to April 2002), so perhaps it's 1996. I said also about Fiat Ducato, but Polonez is a better hint. But I'm pretty sure that it's not any year later, because of the boom of new cars in Poland in late 90's. I can't remember any significant number of old Polonezs from then, while here there are two such ones (and notice that the right one has black license plates with pretty number from Bydgoszcz voivodeship - BGL 4444).


----------



## 100P

piotr71 said:


> A car trying to cross Southbound carriageway is FSO Polonez Atu, introduced in 1996


There is no Polonez Atu on this pic. Red car is Polonez Caro (1991-), and the blue one is Ford Orion (1984-).


----------



## MajKeR_

^^ Red is probably one of oldest Atus. And blue seems to be Sierra, not Orion.


----------



## 100P

Atu was sedan, while the red one is hatchback, so im sure it's Caro.


----------



## sponge_bob

MajKeR_ said:


> And blue seems to be Sierra, not Orion.



Blue is a Sierra. 

By the way were the Caro and Atu a Fiat 124 underneath or had things progressed to perhaps a Mirafiori by then?????


----------



## chauffeur

sponge_bob said:


> Blue is a Sierra.
> 
> By the way were the Caro and Atu a Fiat 124 underneath or had things progressed to perhaps a Mirafiori by then?????


Rather 1300/1500 than 124. Fiat 124 was manufactured in USSR as Zhiguli, while Poland produced a car named Polski Fiat 125p (then FSO 1500) which wasn't the exact copy of Fiat 125. In fact it was Fiat 1300/1500 chassis and engine with 125 body. Polonez got modified PF 125p chassis with new body.


----------



## geogregor

Roadworks on A4.
As you can see separation of the contraflow is rather miserable.
Total lack of physical barriers, even in critical points.






















































End of contraflow









But then lane closure due to replacement of the sound barriers.
Now, I wonder how often all those hundreds of km of barriers will have to be replaced or fixed.


----------



## sponge_bob

WOW! How old is that trashed beyond use sound barrier??????????  I could not see these surviving a year in Ireland where we have regular wind events but Poland gets a good European Windstorm at least every 2 or 3 years too.



geogregor said:


>


----------



## geogregor

Few more shots from A4


----------



## Kemo

sponge_bob said:


> WOW! How old is that trashed beyond use sound barrier??????????


I think more than 10 years old.


________________________________

Today a contract was signed with Strabag for construction of Wieluń bypass (DK74). The new road will be a grade-separated single carriageway with 3 lanes (2+1). It will be 13 km long. Completion date - early 2017.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

Interesting video :


----------



## geogregor

Few shots from the A1 southbound


















The 2x2 section south of the Rowien (Zory/Rybnik) junction









In some place I saw massive banner advertising BP petrol station on Mszana services as "the last BP station before the border"
Unfortunately I didn't have my camera ready 

Here the official sign:



























Approaching the infamous bridge:









And we are getting off here as I'm heading to my "less than splendid" (to put it mildly) home town


----------



## rakcancer

*Progress on construction of S8 Salomea-Wolica.* Please pardon my translation below. It may be not the most accurate and proper but hopefully understood for most of us:

*High resolution here:* http://ssc.teokryt.pl/tsw/standia/TSW-2014-11-30.png


PINK - design
PURPURE- existing, to be reconstructed
BROWN - first stage (earth removal, leveling, etc)
YELLOW - prime layer (concrete, gravel)
GREEN - first layer
TEAL - temporary, for test layer
BLUE - top layer
OBIEKTY INZYNIERYJNE (%) = structures (bridges, walls etc)


----------



## baczek333

del


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

This guy also filmed area in Serbia where i live


----------



## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> This list?
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81504012/Odliczanie-hetman.png
> 
> Plus there is a chance that A4 will be opened before Christmas 2015
> Also there are rumors that A1 may also be opened... but it seems unlikely at this moment.


Thanks guys


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

Kemo we posted similar things in the same time


----------



## Chris80678

Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> Kemo we posted similar things in the same time


Thanks to both of you - Autoputevi kao hobi and Kemo

We're not going to see many openings in 2015


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

Acording to the list i have posted,Poland will open this sections of motorways in 2015:
S8: Paszkow – Opacz (S2) 12 11.5km (March 2014 to June 2015) – project – map
DK89: Gdansk-Letnica – Gdansk-Przerobka 12 2.4km (October 2011 to June 2015) – project – map
S69: Buczkowice – Zywiec-Sola 12 9.6km (August 2010 to July 2015) – project – map
S8: rededication Warsaw-Powazkowska – Warsaw-Modlinska 12 4.6km (October 2015) – project – map
S61: Szczuczyn bypass 1 8.0km (August 2012 to December 2015) – project – map
DK7: Janki Male (S8) – Sekocin Las 12 2.8km (September 2014 to December 2015) – project – map
DW902: Gliwice-Jezioranskiego – Gliwice-Kujawska 12 5.6km (December 2012 to Late 2015


----------



## mcarling

Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> S61: Szczuczyn bypass 1 8.0km (August 2012 to December 2015)


I realize the Szczuczyn bypass is still officially contracted to be completed by December 2015, but I drove this way recently and I don't believe it can be completed before 2016.


----------



## JanVL

*Southern Łódź interchange A1/S8*





































By Rusonaldo


----------



## kostas97

JanVL said:


> By Rusonaldo


Is this a new part or an old one??


----------



## m_rocco

^^ probably it's S8 section which will open at same time with A1 Strykow-Tuszyn


----------



## Luki_SL

^^Yes, it`s this section  
https://www.google.pl/maps/@51.6379777,19.5624975,5710m/data=!3m1!1e3 
Interchange S8/91 is on the older google images


----------



## amst

Right now A1/S8 interchange at Piotrkow Tr. does not cover all directions. I'm guessing that this will be corrected, right?


----------



## Maciek_CK

^^It won’t. Drivers will have to use A1/former DK8 interchange or DK91.


----------



## mcarling

amst said:


> Right now A1/S8 interchange at Piotrkow Tr. does not cover all directions. I'm guessing that this will be corrected, right?


The future lasts a long time, but there are currently no plans to go westward from the A1/S8 interchange at Piotrkow Trybunalski. Perhaps a few decades from now the S14 might be extended southeast to this interchange or perhaps an expressway might be built from here to Opole, but there are thousands of kilometers already planned most of which are likely to be built before any such additions are going to be seriously considered.


----------



## Puležan

^^There's even no sense of building the missing ramps, because everyone who wants to go from Warszawa to Wrocław will use A2+A1+S8, and those who want to go from Warszawa to Katowice will use S8+A1. Using S8-S8 doesn't make sense on east-west route 

By the way, why there's no motorway/expressway (S8) planned from Wrocław to Czech border (via Klodzko), to connect it with Hradec Kralove and further west to Prague and/or south to Brno? I find this missing link very important :dunno: The only planned motorway in this area is S3 from Legnica to Lubawka, which is, in my opinion, too far from Wroclaw and is a big detour.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There's more traffic than just long-distance traffic. Regional traffic will continue to use S8 via the Piotrków turnaround.


----------



## Puležan

ChrisZwolle said:


> There's more traffic than just long-distance traffic. Regional traffic will continue to use S8 via the Piotrków turnaround.


Of course there's regional and local traffic, but on shorter routes I don't think is a problem to use normal roads (DK and DW). Also, there's a full cloverleaf on A1/DK74 interchange (Piotrkow Trybunalski PoŁudnie/BeŁchatow).


----------



## mcarling

Puležan said:


> By the way, why there's no motorway/expressway (S8) planned from Wrocław to Czech border (via Klodzko), to connect it with Hradec Kralove and further west to Prague and/or south to Brno? I find this missing link very important :dunno: The only planned motorway in this area is S3 from Legnica to Lubawka, which is, in my opinion, too far from Wroclaw and is a big detour.


I believe that the S8 will eventually be extended to Klodzko, but probably not before 2030.



Puležan said:


> on shorter routes I don't think is a problem to use normal roads (DK and DW).


If you mean trips shorter than about two kilometers, then I agree with you. However, I would much rather drive three to five kilometers on an expressway than on a DW road even if I were to have to pay a toll to do so.


----------



## Kemo

Puležan said:


> By the way, why there's no motorway/expressway (S8) planned from Wrocław to Czech border (via Klodzko), to connect it with Hradec Kralove and further west to Prague and/or south to Brno?


It is planned by the region, but it is not yet included in the government's plan.

Sorry for extending the page


----------



## JanVL

*S7, Kielce South interchange*










https://www.facebook.com/gddkia/pho...5151383870747/848386411880573/?type=1&theater


----------



## Kemo

Chęciny Castle in the background. If you drive from south and you see it, it means you are approaching Kielce


----------



## John Maynard

Stupid Polish alcohol laws; till quite recently, you would go to jail if caught on a bike with more than 0,05%, your driver's license being revoked :bash:

Curiously, it's still better to drive 200 km/h through a town than to drive normally after 2 beers, as you get a "small" ticket for the first one (your license wouldn't even be revoked, only 10 points granted out of 22 acceptable), but go to jail for the second offense. 
That's weird to see jails full of "light" drunken drivers and cyclists, especially when thinking of the success of the "resocialization" process, all together with murderers, rapists, bank robbers in the same small cell :lol:.


----------



## mcarling

Goy said:


> Are there motorways in these tracks:
> 
> Berlin - Gdansk?
> Warsaw - Brest(BY)?
> Warsaw - Lviv(ukaine)?
> Gdansk - Wroclaw?


No, not yet. Berlin - Lodz - Gdansk is possible by motorway, but it would be much faster to go directly on lesser roads. Gdansk - Lodz - Wroclaw is mostly by motorway and expressway, except going through Lodz.


----------



## rakcancer

This normally wouldn't deserve to be a news but taking into consideration what is going on with noise barriers construction in Poland it is a news worth mentioning.
Administration of city of Warsaw has declared that noise barriers put by one of private developers along United States Avenue (al. Stanow Zjednoczonych) in Warsaw are illegal and are set to be REMOVED. It is probably the first such a case in Poland. Whole story here:
http://warszawa.gazeta.pl/warszawa/...yczne_na_Goclawiu_do_rozbiorki.html#LokWawTxt


----------



## Strzala

New bridge over Wisła (Vistula) river in Połaniec - connection between Świętokrzyskie and Podkarpackie voivodeships (opened for traffic in 12th November 2014):



> https://www.facebook.com/polskawschodnia?fref=photo
> 
> http://www.polskawschodnia.gov.pl/W...zyl_Swietokrzyskie_i_Podkarpacie20141112.aspx


----------



## JanVL

Yes, and under European pressure to stop this stupidity. Though, that's pity that the law didn’t came into effect immediately.[/QUOTE]

All laws need a certain time frame to be implemented. Otherwise the legal certainty is affected. 



John Maynard said:


> Also, an interesting fact, is that more than 200’000 persons were put in prison for this very reason between the introduction of this law in 2000 and 2012, making a yearly average of more than 16’700 inmates. Some were convicted for years in jail...


Though those will probably have been short sentences.



John Maynard said:


> Moreover, It should be noted, that some drunken cyclists were even pursued by Poland with a European Arrest Warrant, and put into extradition process :wallbash:


No the whole story. The same man was also convicted for drunk driving with a car.

http://londynek.net/wiadomosci/article?jdnews_id=15654




John Maynard said:


> Nevertheless, drunken driving is not the main problem in Polish road fatalities. Inappropriate speed and reckless driving are. Out of these 8% drunk drivers fatal accidents, maybe (I am supposing, as there are no stats) the majority is severely drunk? It’s certainly an important problem that must be fought, but not in this singular way as it is today.


I can't find any specified data unfortunately. But as you say it remains a problem and saving hundreds of people's life is a good goal. And we're not only talking about the dead: there are thousands of wounded too, of which many can be handicapped for life. In some ways, that can be worse than an immediate death. 



John Maynard said:


> Anyway, that rate is low compared to some other EU countries. That could mean either:
> 
> 1) Polish drivers are disciplined when it comes to alcohol, but not towards other traffic violations.


No and yes. 



John Maynard said:


> 2)I’ve seen people going out of bars, driving drunken at 30-40 km/h, even in rural areas. Lesser speed while intoxicated may reduce the risk of having a fatal crash, and therefore, lower the statistics.


It does, but remains dangerous.



John Maynard said:


> In any of these cases, there is a good public awareness of driving under alcohol influence. Quite contrasting with the stereotypes about the country .


But the mere fact of driving drunk is an offence nevertheless and can't be tolerated. 



John Maynard said:


> IMHO, it’s wrong priority what your government is focalising right now, with disproportionate measure for the “light” one. And let's say it as it is, almost completely ignoring the other much more important factors.


The government had to increase measures after a couple of fatal crashes which killed several bystanders at once. I'm not familiar with the other measures taken recently on other domains. But alcohol remains one of the big problems of the Polish society, not only for driving.



John Maynard said:


> Does many people know that Poland account one fifth of all pedestrian fatalities in EU, despite having only 7,5% of the population? Surely not, because the politics and media won't say it loudly, they focus exaggeratedly on minor causes only, so you won’t see any actions like these alcohol checkpoints near zebras or schools.


I for sure agree that crossing a street is dangerous in many places due to the lack of the common 'knowledge' to stop for pedestrians. I learned to drive in Belgium and therefore always do that.




John Maynard said:


> 1) The UK are doing very well! It should be an example for Poland !


I agree. I always feel safe in the UK, despite that one drives on the wrong side of the road . 



John Maynard said:


> No, we don't, as I don’t see how a person after 1-2 beer, can be more dangerous than after taking somniferous, or other impairing medics; and all the list though if sensitive…
> The problem is however different with large quantities of alcohol (drunk state), and I may agree with you in this one.


And it's the latter I mean indeed. 



John Maynard said:


> By the way, (...)


I can only add my personal feeling which is that I'd wish to have Polish police in Belgium, since the latter fails to act in a good or effective way. Generally, one feels much safer in Poland.


----------



## mcarling

JanVL said:


> All laws need a certain time frame to be implemented. Otherwise the legal certainty is affected.


Generally yes, but that's not applicable when repealing bad criminal law. The repeal of the law providing long jail sentences for bicycling while drunk should have been repealed with immediate effect.


----------



## Thermo

JanVL said:


> I can only add my personal feeling which is that I'd wish to have Polish police in Belgium, since the latter fails to act in a good or effective way. Generally, one feels much safer in Poland.


So when are you moving to Poland, JanPL? Hopefully before you get murdered here...


----------



## JanVL

Thermo said:


> So when are you moving to Poland, JanPL? Hopefully before you get murdered here...


I'll see. I was more pointing at riots we had in Brussels many time etc to make it clear. Anyway, that's an off-topic here.


----------



## čarli1

Goy said:


> Are there motorways in these tracks:
> 
> Berlin - Gdansk?
> Warsaw - Brest(BY)?
> Warsaw - Lviv(ukaine)?
> Gdansk - Wroclaw?


On the first page you have map of Poland. Are you so lazy that you can do even that?


----------



## Blackraven

rakcancer said:


> This normally wouldn't deserve to be a news but taking into consideration what is going on with noise barriers construction in Poland it is a news worth mentioning.
> Administration of city of Warsaw has declared that noise barriers put by one of private developers along United States Avenue (al. Stanow Zjednoczonych) in Warsaw are illegal and are set to be REMOVED. It is probably the first such a case in Poland. Whole story here:
> http://warszawa.gazeta.pl/warszawa/...yczne_na_Goclawiu_do_rozbiorki.html#LokWawTxt


hehe there comes a point wherein the noise barrier fetish goes too far :lol:


----------



## Rusonaldo

del


----------



## POLAMCO

^^Wow, great news. Thank u


----------



## GROBIN

rakcancer said:


> This normally wouldn't deserve to be a news but taking into consideration what is going on with noise barriers construction in Poland it is a news worth mentioning.
> Administration of city of Warsaw has declared that noise barriers put by one of private developers along United States Avenue (al. Stanow Zjednoczonych) in Warsaw are illegal and are set to be REMOVED. It is probably the first such a case in Poland. Whole story here:
> http://warszawa.gazeta.pl/warszawa/...yczne_na_Goclawiu_do_rozbiorki.html#LokWawTxt


What a distorted logic ! hno: They will remove noise barriers where they are really needed (or they will not add them - like on the Southern Suwałki bypass between DK8 and S61), but they keep constructing sound barriers in the middle of nowhere ...

Or maybe they want to build some new ones - so a friend of a friend's company earns a bit ? hno:

They state clearly that the sound barriers in this place were supposed to be built, but instead of coming from the city's budget it was made from a developper's money ...


----------



## rakcancer

GROBIN said:


> They will remove noise barriers where they are really needed


Really, that ugly barriers are needed to be put there, in the middle of sidewalk? It looks like random object in random place



GROBIN said:


> They state clearly that the sound barriers in this place were supposed to be built, but instead of coming from the city's budget it was made from a developer's money ...


It clearly was said that developer put these barriers in order to build bigger and closer to road buildings. Just because developer payed for them does it mean now everyone can build noise barriers according to their own needs? We have enough urban chaos in our cities in Poland. On the top of that we have new law that lets people to build houses without any construction permit like it use to be. This is a recipe for disaster in this already big disorder.
And yes, there is a lot of these noise barriers that needs to be removed, lowered or moved to other places. This is a good start. IMHO


----------



## John Maynard

JanVL said:


> Though those will probably have been short sentences.


Nevertheless, some sentences were longer, probably recurrences of being “drunk" (over 1-2 beer) while pedaling.



JanVL said:


> No the whole story. The same man was also convicted for drunk driving with a car.
> 
> http://londynek.net/wiadomosci/article?jdnews_id=15654


Well, it wasn’t written in The Independent’s article. Yet, we don’t know how much alcohol he had while driving, this information isn’t provided. He might technically have as well only 0,02% or just above. He hasn’t cause any accident either. While in Britain, he might even not having been upset for that...

Anyway, it’s a 7 years old offense, since he has recovered from his alcohol related problems, and in my opinion, it’s extremely resources consuming and taxpayer’s money wasting to pursue such people abroad with a European Arrest Warrant and extraditions processes for such petty offenses; especially, when the emitting country is not paying anything in the process. Not only that, but according to the news, the man is struggling to get a living for his family. Though, the question is: Does the Polish legal system have nothing better to do than to chase “poor” people across its borders to put them in already full prisons for minor offenses?



JanVL said:


> I can't find any specified data unfortunately. But as you say it remains a problem and saving hundreds of people's life is a good goal. And we're not only talking about the dead: there are thousands of wounded too, of which many can be handicapped for life. In some ways, that can be worse than an immediate death.


Here are the statistics for drunken driving in Poland (for 2013):


2101 accidents involving a drunken driver
Out of which, more than 1400 accidents were caused by inappropriate speed.
265 persons were killed.
2727 person were wounded.
Majority of offenders are 25-39 years old.
Meanwhile during that same period of time there was:


35 385 road accidents
3300 fatalities
43 500 wounded
In total, Drunken drivers caused 7,4% of road accidents in 2013.
Drunken drivers caused 8% road fatalities in 2013.
Drunken drivers accounted for 6,2% of road injuries in 2013.

But, as I already wrote, we don’t know how drunken these drivers were, was it 1-2 beer, or much more? 

However, the absolute priority from the police is to fight drunken drivers, and a minimum of 10% of police effectives is used exclusively for this purpose. This number is going to increase in the next months.

The total share in accidents is, however, small. In 92% of fatal accident and 94% of injuries, alcohol is not to blame:









Causes of accidents for 2013.

Unsurprisingly, "inappropriate speed" is the first factor of accidents.
In second and third position, come “does not give priority" and “improper behavior towards pedestrians”. 

Last year, there was 1 140 pedestrians killed, and 8 802 were injured, which mean they are victims of 1/3 of all fatal accidents, and 1/5 of total injured.

*> You have 430% more chance of being killed as a pedestrian than by a drunken driver.*

http://www.tvn24.pl/wiadomosci-z-kr...2013-ostatnie-statystyki-wypadkow,384337.html



JanVL said:


> No and yes.


Yet, you will never attain a 0% level in any road accident causes….



JanVL said:


> It does, but remains dangerous.


Yes, but it is much less than, per ex., inappropriate speed in itself. 



JanVL said:


> But the mere fact of driving drunk is an offence nevertheless and can't be tolerated.


High speed in built-up area, is also an offense, but punishment is very different. Though, it causes a lot more fatal accidents and injuries, as you are particularly concerned by the last one.



JanVL said:


> The government had to increase measures after a couple of fatal crashes which killed several bystanders at once. I'm not familiar with the other measures taken recently on other domains. But alcohol remains one of the big problems of the Polish society, not only for driving.


In fact, it isn’t such a big problem. It’s just the main issues are not being taken seriously right now. 

I think, that Poland has found it “scapegoat” with this "drunken drivers plague”, which is IMHO pure propaganda to divert public attention from fighting much more serious occurrences - as it might be unpopular for the government, as well.



JanVL said:


> I for sure agree that crossing a street is dangerous in many places due to the lack of the common 'knowledge' to stop for pedestrians. I learned to drive in Belgium and therefore always do that.


Hoping, that this concern would be taken more seriously.



JanVL said:


> And it's the latter I mean indeed.


Therefore, an "EU adaptation" to 0,05% would be welcome .


----------



## GROBIN

rakcancer said:


> Really, that ugly barriers are needed to be put there, in the middle of sidewalk? It looks like random object in random place
> 
> 
> It clearly was said that developer put these barriers in order to build bigger and closer to road buildings. Just because developer payed for them does it mean now everyone can build noise barriers according to their own needs? We have enough urban chaos in our cities in Poland. On the top of that we have new law that lets people to build houses without any construction permit like it use to be. This is a recipe for disaster in this already big disorder.
> And yes, there is a lot of these noise barriers that needs to be removed, lowered or moved to other places. This is a good start. IMHO


You're discussing about the esthetic part, but this is a matter of tastes - just as with the numerous ads on ugly not-renovated commieblocks. Like we say in French, "les goûts et les couleurs ne se discutent pas" (tastes & colors are not to be discussed - meaning "do not argue about it) :lol:
I am discussing about the practical part. Whatever life you want (in the middle of a park or in the middle of an urban jungle), I don't think you'd like to live in such noise and neither would the inhabitants of these buildings, which is also why they built that. And in this case the sidewalk is big enough.
I can see from here when those inhabitants will ask the city of Warsaw for compensation. Bravo, bravissimo ...

And on the discussion between JanVL and John Maynard: yes, harsh alcohol laws are needed, but 0,2g/L like it is in Poland or Norway or 0,0g/L like in the Czech Republic for instance are a nonsense ... 0,5g/L is O.K., because unless you drink without eating the effect of one beer or one glass of wine is low. That's MHO


----------



## Surel

GROBIN said:


> And on the discussion between JanVL and John Maynard: yes, harsh alcohol laws are needed, but 0,2g/L like it is in Poland or Norway or 0,0g/L like in the Czech Republic for instance are a nonsense ... 0,5g/L is O.K., because unless you drink without eating the effect of one beer or one glass of wine is low. That's MHO


I think that 0 tolerance is ok. But I also think that the authorities should make something cool out of driving without drinking. That means, don't use only a deterrence, but also support it in a positive way, make it "cool" for the young generation. They will keep their habits and they are also the biggest risk group.


----------



## rakcancer

Just to add to our noise barriers discussion. New disaster is coming. New improved and widened DW 631 at the outskirts of Warszawa is about to be finished. Just look at satellite image where it is:


sumas said:


> Na Google Earth fajnie widać cały remontowany odcinek
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zdjęcia z 4 października 2014
> ale można już porównać rozmiary przyszłego ronda z poprzednim.


Now expect this:bash::


xsqr said:


>





Sławek;119079910 said:


> c.d.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> c.d.n.


----------



## rakcancer

GROBIN said:


> You're discussing about the esthetic part


Esthetic - yes but also it is about law and regulations. There is no way everyone can build on public lands not approved barriers. We have the same problem with tens of thousand ugly commercial displays put without any permit along streets and roads in Poland. Also, you need to ask people if they prefer to live with noise or with a view of 5 meter high wall in the front of their window. I am simply used to that kind of noise. I have been living my whole life with street noise not only from cars but also from trams and even low flying planes from time to time... But of course not everyone is the same... so maybe is better to live in suburbs. Noise barriers fit there much better along motorways.


----------



## Kemo

rakcancer said:


> Just to add to our noise barriers discussion. New disaster is coming. New improved and widened DW 631 at the outskirts of Warszawa is about to be finished. Just look at satellite image where it is:


And you can clearly see that the built-up area of Ząbki is very close to the road.
So why putting noise barriers here deserves a ":bash:"?


----------



## rakcancer

Which area, the one on the bottom of image separated by about 40-50 meters of forest? You can see clearly from pictures they are trees behind these barriers , besides I know this road. Drove there many times... There are maybe some single houses a bit closer to the road but it doesn't justifies these huge barriers. It is a shame, again....


----------



## Kemo

Even 50 metres of forest doesn't stop the noise.


----------



## mcarling

50 meters of distance, with or without a forest, greatly diminishes noise. Doubling the distance quarters the noise. In this case it would have made much more sense to sound insulate the few houses affected than to build another monstrosity. Yes, I know, a stupid Polish law measures noise outside the structure, not inside. That law should be fixed.


----------



## Kanadzie

50 m forest is really good... and it isn't a noisy road...

It's funny, I'm looking to buy a new house, and one I liked is near a train tracks (major line, I think I will look elsewhere). I was thinking... if only it was Poland and there was a noise barrier! :lol:


----------



## Kemo

S11 western bypass of Poznań will be opened tomorrow.
It means that in 2014 *300 km* of motorways have been opened.


----------



## mcarling

^^
That means only 21.1 kilometers of 2x2 expressway will open in 2015. I'm not counting 8.0 kilometers of single carriageway S61 (which anyway is contracted for December 2015 but will probably open in 2016) or 4.6 kilometers of S8 in Warsaw that will complete renovation.

2016 should be dramatically better with more than 100 kilometers of new 2x2 and 2x3 motorways and expressways opening.


----------



## Strzala

Tomorrow last section of S11 West Poznań bypass (Rokietnica-Swadzim) will be opened for traffic:




> https://www.facebook.com/gddkia


----------



## Chris80678

Strzala said:


> Tomorrow last section of S11 West Poznań bypass (Rokietnica-Swadzim) will be opened for traffic:
> 
> 
> 
> Alleluja!
> :banana:


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

mcarling said:


> ^^
> That means only 21.1 kilometers of 2x2 expressway will open in 2015. I'm not counting 8.0 kilometers of single carriageway S61 (which anyway is contracted for December 2015 but will probably open in 2016) or 4.6 kilometers of S8 in Warsaw that will complete renovation.
> 
> 2016 should be dramatically better with more than 100 kilometers of new 2x2 and 2x3 motorways and expressways opening.


That number is really low.I expected bigger number,so as everyone here.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

This is the video of S11 west of Poznan:


----------



## mcarling

Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> That number is really low.I expected bigger number,so as everyone here.


You expected a bigger number for 2015? Or for 2016?


----------



## Kemo

Contracts were signed for optimising design and construction of two sections of S3 motorway:
- Nowa Sól South - Gaworzyce (16,4km) - Dragados
- Gaworzyce - Polkowice North (16,9 km) - Mirbud/Erbedim

Completion date - summer 2018


----------



## rakcancer

I the meantime. Construction of DTS in Gliwice


----------



## rakcancer

Intersection of A1 and DTS, Gliwice:


----------



## rakcancer

*[DW747] Iłża - Kamień (bridge over Wsla river) - Lublin*



bubuluza said:


> W strone Lublina





bubuluza said:


>





bubuluza said:


>


----------



## Kemo

Tenders have been launched for construction of three sections of Zakopianka (S7) from Lubień to Chabówka, including a tunnel under Luboń Mały.


----------



## JanVL

*S11 - Western bypass of Poznan*














































By Rusonaldo




























by DSzumaher


----------



## Shenkey

rakcancer said:


> I the meantime. Construction of DTS in Gliwice


What is this picture? From WW2?


----------



## rakcancer

hehehe... photoshop


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Will the Dead Wisła Tunnel (Tunel pod Martwą Wisłą) open to traffic before the end of the year?


----------



## Kemo

No way. It was originally scheduled to open in June 2015 but there was a delay and the new date is September or October 2015.


----------



## i15

I think main problem in Poland is the type of settlements - neverending villages with seperated houses and many crossroads. There is higher risk of hitting a pedestrian, or hitting car coming from secondary road. It also results in less space between setllements where you can overtake slower vehicles safely. Speed limit changes a lot and it can be quite annoying. The more speed limit changes, the more people ignore it. It's a fact and it doesn't matter if person is Slavic or German.

It's just my humble opinion. I'm comparing it to Slovakia and I've never been anywhere expect southern Poland.


----------



## jtybinka

macieii said:


> For those who cannot read Polish. This article is, basically, a piece of bullshit.


S2 what is exceptional for journalist with this tender ? It`s not delayed,
It goes normal or even faster then other contracts
S2 was announced 18.12.2014

Nowa Sol - Legnica
S3 was announced 23-30.08.2014 (5 parts) - 3 parts were signed just before Christmas
2 parts are not even signed yet 

so S2 is even 4 months ahead

Not even worth to discuss , is it so difficult to check the date of 18.12.2014 and count 
months ? probably for journalists it`s too difficult

The time was lost between 1995-2007 not now


----------



## jtybinka

i15 said:


> I think main problem in Poland is the type of settlements - .


you are right , whenever I go to Slovakia immediately I see that houses
are close together , you really notice this


----------



## Venividi

The main problem is aggressive driving style in combination with very bad driving skills


----------



## snowdog

Tbh, the main problem imho with driving in Poland is bold overtaking manoeuvres at unsafe places ( like intersections). I remember the many head on collisions you came across everywhere. And the drunk drivers, it's ridiculous how many drunkards were on the roads the past few times I've been there.

But on the positive side:
The fact that people move out of the way and say thank you when you move out of the way for them, personally makes driving in Poland on ''country'' roads better than on N roads in Holland, where you always end up stuck behind some grandpa or truck with an overtaking ban.

People respect people who want to go faster better, while in Holland you're treated with a concert of full beams and horns if you drive significantly faster than the rest from sleeping sheep and grey haired drivers who are startled by the faster speed or overtake at a place with a solid white line ( though it's very area dependant, Zeeland on provincial roads is the worst imho, but also on the A58, while on the more ''through roads'' like the A16 or A1 nobody bats a 2nd eye if you drive a bit faster).

In Poland also, on motorways you can comfortably do 160-180 km/h on cruise control without to much issues ( only overtaking trucks slow you down really).


----------



## GROBIN

Actually it is hard to compare 2 countries with such an enormous difference in population and traffic density. I strongly believe this balances in favor of Lithuanian statistics, and less densely populated countries in general.

I'd say the bad habits of Polish drivers is driving quite fast even out of motorways (and especially built-up areas) combined with cyclists and pedestrians' bad habits (no reflectors or flashlights during the night, riding like crazy in built-up areas)

In the case of Lithuania... You have to be VERY careful when driving on hilly, narrow or curvy roads. People overtake without even making sure there is any vehicle in front or ... Without visibility. Moreover, there is also this fog light madness ... And the fact that people, on dual carriageways, always stay either on the middle or on the left lane. In this case, Lithuanians have got much in common with people from the Paris area :lol:


----------



## Eulanthe

The problem in Poland is the absolute lack of enforcement of driving laws. I've lost count of the amount of times that I've made illegal moves - turning left when its prohibited, overtaking in no overtaking zones (but when safe to do so), speeding (for instance, on the DK94 in Wroclaw at night) and so on. Yet in 5 years, I've been caught once. The problem is political - the Government saw how people reacted to the serious introduction of speed cameras, and as they depend on the car-driving class for votes, they're not going to risk any serious increase to the budget for traffic policing duties. Only yesterday in Wrocław, some idiot was overtaking people in the middle of the city on a cobbled road - and it was snowing.


----------



## John Maynard

The biggest problem in Poland is the absurdities of law: putting people to prison for a chocolate bar worth 99 groszy (0,20 Euro), issuance of an European Arrest Warrant for a metal pipe, sending to jail people drinking a beer in public, 5 days sentence for conducting a bicycle without holding the steering wheel :nuts:.

Meanwhile, the criminals on wheels are free to drive at speed as will in front of schools, endangering and killing children; pouncing on pedestrians crossing zebras, especially old persons that are dying all the time; overtaking at 200 km/h when there is incoming traffic, provoking unnecessary and massive road slaughters :wallbash:

Emphasizing the complete stupidity, lawlessness, despotism, absolute lack of pragmatism and common sense, corruption of the Polish lawmakers, judicial authorities and government, which may have lot in common with a third world country :bash:


https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=pl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fcourtwatch.pl%2Fblog%2F2013%2F09%2F20%2Fabsurdy-polskiego-prawa-za-co-mozna-trafic-do-wiezienia-wiadomosci%2F&edit-text=&act=url


----------



## and802

is this thread on Polish Motorways or on legal matters ?


----------



## Chris80678

and802 said:


> is this thread on Polish Motorways or on legal matters ?


My thoughts exactly


----------



## javimix19

rakcancer said:


> That is a huge gap.
> 2013 Road fatalities in Spain: 1680, in less populated Poland: *3035*
> Drop from 3035 in 2013 to 2.869 a year later is not that impressive. If this is going to be a pattern for next years Poland may be able to catch up with countries like Spain maybe in 15 years considering that Spain will improve slowly in that time too.... Not that shiny future for Poland...


In Spain one of few matters that could be proud is that since 2005-2006 road fatalities have declined a lot. Law enforcement in traffic related matters have improved very much. For example only 10 years ago if you were driving drunk your punishment only could be a relatively small economic fine. 
Today a drunk driver go to prison directly. (with the stigma, lost it's employment, big economic sanction...)

Speaking about Spain, most of death related accidents happen in secundary roads. We have a lot of motorways now (mostly free tolled), and principal routes and more of displacements are in motorways, but sadly secundary roads need a lot improvements.


----------



## jtybinka

100 % agree with all post above
When I drive I always ask myself , where is police ? why they don`t control me ?
I don`t see them , I see policy 3 times a year maybe , I should see them
everyday. It`s so difficult to pay the fine in Poland.
Last 3 years I was controled 2 times by police - both 2 times on bicycle......
zero times in car...........

As you say in Poland stolen chocolate bar or cyclist is more importnat
then Polish idiot driving 150 km/h


----------



## MichiH

javimix19 said:


> In Spain one of few matters that could be proud is that since 2005-2006 road fatalities have declined a lot.


2007 --> 2013:
Spain: 3,823 --> 1,721 (-55%)
Poland: 5,583 --> 3,342 (-41%)

France: 4,620 --> 3,268 (-30%)
Germany: 4,949 --> 3,339 (-33%)
Romania: 2,800 --> 1,861 (-34%)
Bulgaria: 1,006 --> 601 (-41%)
Denmark: 406 --> 180 (-56%)
Slovakia: 667 --> 225 (-66%)
Lithunia: 739 --> 258 (-66%)
Latvia: 419 --> 179 (-68%)
...


----------



## Kemo

A contract was signed for optimising design and construction of 12 km of S12 motorway, section Puławy - Sielce (interchange with S17). Completion date is 2018. Contractors: Energopol Szczecin, PRD Zwoleń


----------



## Kemo

and802 said:


> is this thread on Polish Motorways or on legal matters ?


Have some videos then :cheers: I think I haven't posted them here before.

DK74 between S7 and DK9:











Modernised DW786 in Świętokrzyskie region:


----------



## Kanadzie

Lots of discussion of road deaths and driving, but what about emergency services? If the ambulance takes 10 extra minutes to arrive you lose how many people...


----------



## MajKeR_

i15 said:


> I think main problem in Poland is the type of settlements - neverending villages with seperated houses and many crossroads. There is higher risk of hitting a pedestrian, or hitting car coming from secondary road. It also results in less space between setllements where you can overtake slower vehicles safely. Speed limit changes a lot and it can be quite annoying. The more speed limit changes, the more people ignore it. It's a fact and it doesn't matter if person is Slavic or German.
> 
> It's just my humble opinion. I'm comparing it to Slovakia and I've never been anywhere expect southern Poland.


It doesn't concern the whole Poland. Its western side (Silesia, Greater Poland, Pomerania) is built-up more tightly and less messy. The border of partition is still visible, which actually is a bit complicated thing.


----------



## snowdog

Eulanthe said:


> The problem in Poland is the absolute lack of enforcement of driving laws. I've lost count of the amount of times that I've made illegal moves - turning left when its prohibited, overtaking in no overtaking zones (but when safe to do so), speeding (for instance, on the DK94 in Wroclaw at night) and so on. Yet in 5 years, I've been caught once. The problem is political - the Government saw how people reacted to the serious introduction of speed cameras, and as they depend on the car-driving class for votes, they're not going to risk any serious increase to the budget for traffic policing duties. Only yesterday in Wrocław, some idiot was overtaking people in the middle of the city on a cobbled road - and it was snowing.


One persons view is that it's ''lawlessness'', another view is that it's a pleasant & great freedom as a driver. 


John Maynard said:


> The biggest problem in Poland is the absurdities of law: putting people to prison for a chocolate bar worth 99 groszy (0,20 Euro), issuance of an European Arrest Warrant for a metal pipe, sending to jail people drinking a beer in public, 5 days sentence for conducting a bicycle without holding the steering wheel :nuts:.


Tbh, some things are indeed retarded, but I'm all for prisoning people who steal. Speeding is a harmless crime most of the time, stealing is not.

It's a godsend to drive on the A2 in Poland without having to obsessively watch your speedo. And on country roads you are always flashed well in advance for a speed/cash trap by oncoming drivers.

The urban driving behaviour is indeed not very social, and I wonder how people get away with things in Warsaw ( cars jumping the queue at traffic lights, cutting in front, overtaking and ignoring pedestrian crossings, unsafe conduct near cyclists, etc...).

However outside of built-up areas on dual carriageways and especially on motorways, come on, give people a break, there isn't really any enforcement needed there. And if there is enforcement, it shouldn't be on speed but on the things that actually cause accidents: Right of way issues, bad overtaking, etc...

There should be more regular policing, not traffic policing, which applies to pretty much every country in Europe hno:.


Personally I hope they destroy the toll booths and make them electronic in Poland, it's silly how often you have ( or had, it's been a while) to stop to pay.


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## Kanadzie

^^ indeed, driving in Poland is relatively enjoyable

I think the safety issue is valid, BUT, fatalities are consistently decreasing with a good rate - so what is the major pressing factor? Spain might have had their global number go down faster since 2007, but it's probably because nobody in the country can afford gasoline anymore...


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## Eulanthe

The problem is that Polish drivers aren't really responsible with the freedom that they've got. No-one minds someone doing 160km/h on the motorway, but I thoroughly object to someone flashing their lights at me and thumping their steering wheel just because I won't go 70km/h in the city. For me, the most sensible solution in Poland would be to equip some unmarked cars with cameras and simply drive around the cities. Leave the expressways/motorways alone (like snowdog says, it's rarely an issue there) and focus on the idiotic behaviour within cities. I'd also be very in favour of the police being allowed to seize registration documents and driving licences for up to two weeks - many of the "I drive like an idiot because I am the man" type brigade would be hurt tremendously by this. The car is still a status symbol in Poland, and taking it away temporarily is like castrating the victim.


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## Kanadzie

^^ but allowing police to seize things bypasses judicial oversight, what happens when the police are wrong?


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## Eulanthe

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ but allowing police to seize things bypasses judicial oversight, what happens when the police are wrong?


Simple - require video review by a senior police officer within 24 hours. If the offence must be captured on video, it's highly unlikely that the police will get it wrong. I'd also implement instant courts - if someone wants to have judicial oversight, then they can go with the evidence to a 24 hour court set up to deal with these cases, but with the provision that the judge may impose a lengthier suspension of up to 3 months. Simple, effective and straight to the point - rather than the current mess where people accused of driving like idiots (and killing people in the process) often are free to drive around for years after the offence.


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## Kanadzie

So in essence, what you suggest is a police state  

You can't have a judge imposing longer sentences on the same evidence, there is something really wrong with that (like Magna Carta issues)

Video is not always useful... example a while ago in Canada where such laws are in place, a driver was caught at 91 km/h in 50 zone at his great surprise. The officer had recording of the speed, 91 km/h measured at distance approx 1 300 metre (handheld laser). 

However in reality, the position of the officer was approx 250 m behind the "zone 50" sign, so at a distance of 1300 m, the driver was still in the zone 90 (!) (curiously the speed limits on this road type are identical to Polish) 

The driver had his car seized and impounded for 3 weeks and license suspended for same time, at his expense, as well as speeding ticket (expensive, approx 800 dollars). In court, the ticket was cancelled, but what about the costs of towing, impoundment storage, taxis and etc when license was gone? He had no compensation. What would a video have shown, a car approaching, speed 91, so "guilty".

Giving so much power to police is putting in place a huge risk to grind up the lives of innocent people and this is fundamentally wrong and incompatible with having a free society... I don't see issue with some slight delays of justice system, perhaps there are efficiencies to be found in the bureaucracy. But consider this - someone who murders another with a firearm, will the police hang him on sight? Of course not...


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## mcarling

Eulanthe said:


> Simple - require video review by a senior police officer within 24 hours. If the offence must be captured on video, it's highly unlikely that the police will get it wrong. I'd also implement instant courts - if someone wants to have judicial oversight, then they can go with the evidence to a 24 hour court set up to deal with these cases, but with the provision that the judge may impose a lengthier suspension of up to 3 months. Simple, effective and straight to the point - rather than the current mess where people accused of driving like idiots (and killing people in the process) often are free to drive around for years after the offence.


... so the accused have no time to hire a lawyer and prepare a defense. Kanadzie is correct. What you propose is a police state.


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## Eulanthe

mcarling said:


> ... so the accused have no time to hire a lawyer and prepare a defense. Kanadzie is correct. What you propose is a police state.


I imagine under such a regime, lawyers would be on-call to defend such clients. However, with a requirement for video collaboration, I imagine most people would rather just take the 2 weeks and get it over with. 



Kanadzie" said:


> You can't have a judge imposing longer sentences on the same evidence, there is something really wrong with that (like Magna Carta issues)


Magna Carta is irrelevant here, but anyway, it's commonplace in Europe. If you're a foreigner in France (for instance), the "on-the-spot" fine is actually a deposit towards the fine in the court. It just so happens that (conveniently) - foreigners tend to get fined the same amount as the fine collected at the side of the road. I remember several cases in the Basque Country where foreign truck drivers received hideously huge fines (3-4000 Euro was common!) and given the option of either having their day in court or simply getting on with it. If they did try and have their day in court, they had little chance. 



> Giving so much power to police is putting in place a huge risk to grind up the lives of innocent people and this is fundamentally wrong and incompatible with having a free society... I don't see issue with some slight delays of justice system, perhaps there are efficiencies to be found in the bureaucracy.


Unfortunately, we're not talking about slight delays, but rather a system that's seen people walk free after clearly committing dreadful offences behind the wheel. At the end of the day, driving is a privilege, not a right.


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## mcarling

Eulanthe said:


> I imagine under such a regime, lawyers would be on-call to defend such clients.


A lawyer cannot prepare a defense in 24 hours. No justice is possible in the system you describe.

Now can we please return to discussing infrastructure?


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## Eulanthe

mcarling said:


> A lawyer cannot prepare a defense in 24 hours. No justice is possible in the system you describe.
> 
> Now can we please return to discussing infrastructure?


It's a moot point, but foreigners in many EU countries often have far less time to make such a decision. I've heard a story first-hand where a member of the Guardia Civil made it clear that either 6000 Euro could be paid (as a "deposit") there and then, or the truck would be kept in place until the trial. When the driver asked when the trial would be, the answer was "As you say in England, how long is a piece of string?". Going back to infrastructure, can anyone explain the sheer stupidity of the Wroclaw-Stadion exit on the A8?


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## geogregor

Eulanthe said:


> It's a moot point, but foreigners in many EU countries often have far less time to make such a decision. I've heard a story first-hand where a member of the Guardia Civil made it clear that either 6000 Euro could be paid (as a "deposit") there and then, or the truck would be kept in place until the trial. When the driver asked when the trial would be, the answer was "As you say in England, how long is a piece of string?".


And in your opinion this is the system we should aim for? 



> Going back to infrastructure, can anyone explain the sheer stupidity of the Wroclaw-Stadion exit on the A8?


What's wrong with this exit?


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## Eulanthe

Everything! But - weren't the exits on the A8 designed for tolls? That might explain it...


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## Janek0

Eulanthe said:


> Everything! But - weren't the exits on the A8 designed for tolls? That might explain it...


They were. A8 was removed from the list of toll roads in October 2011, when road had been already opened.


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## Eulanthe

Janek0 said:


> They were. A8 was removed from the list of toll roads in October 2011, when road had been already opened.


That explains the absurd design of that junction, then. 

I wonder how they ever expected the A8 to work as a toll road?


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## jtybinka

Another Polish "SPORT" driver 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCwaCNW0RZU


http://gliwice.gazeta.pl/gazetagliw...__Niemal_doszlo_do_tragedii.html#TRLokGliwTxt

(I`m sorry I`m presnting Gazeta news)


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## geogregor

jtybinka said:


> Another Polish "SPORT" driver
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCwaCNW0RZU
> 
> 
> http://gliwice.gazeta.pl/gazetagliw...__Niemal_doszlo_do_tragedii.html#TRLokGliwTxt
> 
> (I`m sorry I`m presnting Gazeta news)


What a bloody moron, what was he thinking?? 
On the other hand bloke was driving BMW, what else could we expect.
hno:


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## Kemo

mcarling said:


> Now can we please return to discussing infrastructure?


Obviously not. 

Some news from the end of 2014:

- Contract was signed with Budimex for construction of Bełchatów bypass (DK74). 11 km of grade-separated 2+1 GP class road. Completion date - spring 2017

- S8 section Białystok - Jeżewo finally has a 120 km/h speed limit (it used to have 100km/h because of lack of noise barriers)

- Tenders for construction of S8 motorway between Wyszków and Ostrów Mazowiecka (29 km) have been launched.


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## Eulanthe

geogregor said:


> What a bloody moron, what was he thinking??
> On the other hand bloke was driving BMW, what else could we expect.
> hno:


And it's this sort of nonsense that causes many fatalities.

What's going on with the tender for the S5 north of Leszno? It was supposed to have gone to tender by now, but nothing...


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## Kemo

Summary of new roads opened in 2014.

287 km of A or S class motorways
169 km of other roads (town bypasses etc.)

*Total 456 km*

Here is a summary of these "other roads". It's in Polish but I think it is understandable. Blue color - upgraded roads (second carriageway added or upgraded to grade-separated)


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## mcarling

With the list above, now would be a great time for someone to explain exactly what the differences are among GP, G, and Z class roads. Please.


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## Kemo

It determines parameters such as lane width, minimum distance between intersections, structure gauge etc.

Check the tables here:
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droga_klasy_GP
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droga_klasy_G
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droga_klasy_Z

_Najmniejsza szerokość drogi w liniach rozgraniczających_ - minimum width of a road
_Szerokość pasa ruchu_ - lane width
_Minimalne odległości między skrzyżowaniami_ - minimum distance between intersections
_Największa długość odcinka prostego_ - maximum length of a straight section
_Szerokość pobocza gruntowego_ - width of road verge
_Szerokość pobocza utwardzonego_ - width of hard shoulder
_Minimalna odległość chodnika od krawędzi jezdni_ - minimum distance between carriageway and sidewalk
_Minimalna wysokość skrajni drogi_ - minimum height of structure gauge
_na terenie zabudowy_ - in built-up area
_poza terenem zabudowy_ - outside of built-up area


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## NordikNerd

*Breakdown on the motorway. *


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## snowdog

geogregor said:


> What a bloody moron, what was he thinking??
> On the other hand bloke was driving BMW, what else could we expect.
> hno:


The average BMW driver is much better than the average Minivan/mini mpv or city tin can driver!
But this BMW driver is a complete imbecile, should be jailed for a couple of years and disallowed to ever drive. hno:

There is nothing wrong with flashing your main beams though, this is allowed under the 1968 Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals, Article 28.
Outside of built up areas you are allowed to show drivers using optical signals that you are intending to overtake them.



> ARTICLE 28
> Audible and luminous warnings
> 
> 1. Audible warning devices may be used only:
> (a) To give due warning with a view to avoiding an accident;
> (b)* Outside built-up areas when it is desirable to warn a driver that he is about to be
> overtaken.*
> The sounds emitted by audible warning devices shall not be prolonged more than necessary.
> 
> 2. Motor-vehicle drivers may give the *luminous warnings* specified in Article 32, paragraph 3,
> of this Convention, instead of audible warnings, between nightfall and dawn. *They may also do so
> in daylight hours for the purpose indicated in paragraph 1 (b) of this Article, *if to do so is more
> appropriate in the prevailing circumstances.
> 
> 3. Contracting Parties or subdivisions thereof may authorize the use of luminous warnings in
> built-up areas also for the purpose referred to in paragraph 1 (b) of this Article.


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## rakcancer

*Bridge on Vistula river (DW747)*






Source:
https://www.facebook.com/Drogoweinfo


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## rakcancer

*DTS in winter:*



MateuszBobola said:


> ^^ proszę uprzejmie
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## eeee.

I just came back from a little road trip. Parts in Poland:
https://goo.gl/maps/NYazT

Spontaneous thoughts:
- A4 between the German border and Wroclaw is horrible. Narrow, almost no shoulders, service areas too small (cars piled up to the exit), exits in right angles. But the drivers don't care and drive 140 km/h anyway --> are there plans to reconstruct the whole section?
- Why is A4 until Wroclaw category "A" while e.g. S8 is much better. What's the criteria for a road to be "A" or "S"?

POL-UKR border:
- It's unbelievable slow because of the Polish part of the border (both, Berdyszcze and Korczowa). There is no system, bad information, no one is motivated to work, no English knowledge (glad that Ukrainian is close to Polish). Is it a topic in Poland or no one cares? 
- When you cross the border in Korczowa you come from a perfect road (A4) to a broken one (M10 to L'viv). In the north it's the other way round: from Kovel' to the border is not that bad while on the Polish site it's like in the third world. Is the S12 on that section cancelled? I mean it's the main road from Warsaw to Kyiv. Or no one cares?  Looks like the road to L'viv is more important.


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## Kemo

> Why is A4 until Wroclaw category "A" while e.g. S8 is much better. What's the criteria for a road to be "A" or "S"?


It was built in '30s by the 3rd Reich. It gained the "A" status in Poland a long time ago, I think the parameters of A and S class roads weren't even specified back then  And it remained as an "A" road...



eeee. said:


> are there plans to reconstruct the whole section?


Yes. There is even a chance that reconstruction will start before 2020...



> In the north it's the other way round: from Kovel' to the border is not that bad while on the Polish site it's like in the third world. Is the S12 on that section cancelled? I mean it's the main road from Warsaw to Kyiv. Or no one cares?  Looks like the road to L'viv is more important.


Is DK 12 really so bad? The part in Chełm is indeed like in third world, but the rest seems to be in good condition.


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## eeee.

You're right. When I look in Street View it seems that only the parts around Chelm are bad.
https://goo.gl/maps/6u6Wz
https://goo.gl/maps/bn9gS

Maybe that impression got stuck in my head because on the same day we drove to Lublin where some roads have grooves holes. Or maybe just because it was unexpected due to the fact that most main roads are in a great condition.


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## rakcancer

Chelm bypass is in bad conditions because it is planned entirely new S12 bypass.





This is a priority on waiting list for next years. However there are some works taking place at the present to improve existing DK12. Some pictures from polish forum:



goral_kamil said:


> Z różnych powodów nie było przez jakiś czas fotek z mojej strony, ale dzisiaj się wybrałem. Pogoda nie sprzyja, ale mam nadzieję, że da się coś zobaczyć na fotkach.
> 
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## Autoputevi kao hobi

@eeee. What do you think about A4 after Wroclaw?


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## jtybinka

eeee. said:


> I just came back from a little road trip. Parts in Poland:
> https://goo.gl/maps/NYazT
> 
> Spontaneous thoughts:
> - A4 between the German border and Wroclaw is horrible. Narrow, almost no shoulders,


Horrible is very exterme word , horrible is DK18 south line
1)there are 2 part Wroclaw - Krzyzowa and Krzyzowa - border , part Krzywa border is new and perfect
2)surface is very good almost all the way, it`s maybe 10 years old , it`s concrete , for concrete it`s nothing like new (maybe few kilometres Krzywa - Krzyzowa is older and not perfect)
3)narrow , how can you say it`s narrow ? from the car it`s not possible to see, even regular main roads (class G , droga glowna) have 3,5 wide lines , expressway S-class same 3,5 metres , motorways A class3,75 meters. Even if they did lower G class/S class standard it`s still 3,5 metre. I don`t believe you are able see 25 cm difference, you saying S8 is good but S8 is 3,5 metre and is not narrow for you ?
4)parkings/emergency lines that`s true 
5)why not S class ? what would be sense to make A4 from Korczowa to Wroclaw then S4 from Wrocla to Krzyzowa , then again A4 from Krzyzowa to border ? that`s nonsens
I was triving by this road 200 times and believe me there are 20 much bigger problems in Poland then A4 to Krzyzowa , it`s 10 times better then famous D1 Praha - Brno

This road is not perfect but in most Europeans countries would be quite descent road 
not perfect but still good.
It`s better then A1 motorways to Rome in Italy which has much worse surface
If it`s horrible would word would we use for A1 to Rome ?

A4 https://www.google.com/maps/place/G...2!3m1!1s0x470f4a4fe3b02cd1:0x6598d78c7223aac1

A1 Italy https://www.google.com/maps/place/R...2!3m1!1s0x132f6196f9928ebb:0xb90f770693656e38


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## Eulanthe

I don't mind the A4 west of Wrocław, the 110km/h limit is fine and it's never intolerable. The junctions are a bit rubbish, but all in all, there are far worse roads. But I think he refers to the A18 when it talks about it being in terrible condition, not the lovely new A4. In fairness, I think an S4 title would make far more sense, but I guess that as it always was autostrada, it would be silly to downgrade it now. 

I'd like to know more about the comments about the border being a disgrace on the Polish side. I thought the Polish border crossings had mostly been sorted out and modernised now?


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## John Maynard

Eulanthe said:


> I don't mind the A4 west of Wrocław,* the 110km/h limit is fine and it's never intolerable*.


Actually, I wouldn't say that this limit is tolerable either, as it was put in place between Krzyzowa and Legnica especially for wild animals, which are often crossing the motorway mostly during night time, making it very dangerous even at 110 km/h > There are no fencing there, but many forests are cut through. Still, nobody even thought of installing a barrier since the 1930's :wallbash:.

For my part, everytime I was travelling on this section at night, I've always seen some wild game lying near the roadway, particularly boars. Btw., I was witness of a truck driving before me, hitting and killing 3 big boars in one strike (driving at only 90-100 km/h)! You could imagine the damage it would have done to an automobile...

On this A4 section damage to a car from wild animals









Lying boar on A4


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## eeee.

There was a lot more traffic from the German border to Wroclaw than afterwards. I don't know if it was only because of the holidays and a lot of Poles living in Western Europe came back for Christmas - or if that is standard. Plus: harsh winds on both days (there and back) - without space left and right it gives you the feeling that it's narrow.

e.g.
https://goo.gl/maps/FAIJb
https://goo.gl/maps/7A3pt

About the mentioned roads in other countries: I know only the D1 in CZ and yes, compared to that the A4 West of Wroclaw is like heaven. But I just compared it to other Polish roads which are mostly enjoyable.



POL/UKR border:
The border buildings look new. The problem is not the infrastructure but the organisation. e.g.: five lanes are open but in only two lanes you can show your documents. So everyone runs crisscross and the officers send you from one point to the next and back without explanation what to do. With a little bit more information and organisation the waiting times could be much lower (record so far: 4h in Korczowa).
Last year I talked to someone at the border who already travelled by car to Ukraine around 20 times. He said the Polish borders are much worse than the Slovakian or Hungarian ones.

(Not very representative, but let's say there is room for improvement.)


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## jtybinka

eeee. said:


> . But I just compared it to other Polish roads which are mostly enjoyable.


OK , got your point. 
If you compare to other Polish motorways/expressways that`s true that`s the worst part, but all Polish motorways/expressways are new , there were almost no such roads before 1998 that`s why the standard is high
But if you compare to other countries in Europe that have motorways for 40 even 50 years like Italy , Germany or even Czech Republic then Polish A4 is good. In all countris there are many different standards , for instance in Hungary they have very descent motorways netowrk and they are building new M86 Gyor - Szombathely , and it will have so called soft emergency lines which in fact will be same like Polish A4 west from Wroclaw , so what I want to say no emergency lines is nothing unusuall in Europe
The link you placed , in URL I see picture comes from Switzerland , even there seems to me the width of the line is same standard 3,5 - 3,75 m maybe. So I think emergency line the fact that you feel it`s wider but in fact it`s the same

By the way missing fencing is the biggest problem on this part of A4


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## tomibaranek

jtybinka said:


> Horrible is very exterme word , horrible is DK18 south line
> 1)there are 2 part Wroclaw - Krzyzowa and Krzyzowa - border , part Krzywa border is new and perfect
> 2)surface is very good almost all the way, it`s maybe 10 years old , it`s concrete , for concrete it`s nothing like new (maybe few kilometres Krzywa - Krzyzowa is older and not perfect)
> 3)narrow , how can you say it`s narrow ? from the car it`s not possible to see, even regular main roads (class G , droga glowna) have 3,5 wide lines , expressway S-class same 3,5 metres , motorways A class3,75 meters. Even if they did lower G class/S class standard it`s still 3,5 metre. I don`t believe you are able see 25 cm difference, you saying S8 is good but S8 is 3,5 metre and is not narrow for you ?
> 4)parkings/emergency lines that`s true
> 5)why not S class ? what would be sense to make A4 from Korczowa to Wroclaw then S4 from Wrocla to Krzyzowa , then again A4 from Krzyzowa to border ? that`s nonsens
> I was triving by this road 200 times and believe me there are 20 much bigger problems in Poland then A4 to Krzyzowa , it`s 10 times better then famous D1 Praha - Brno
> 
> This road is not perfect but in most Europeans countries would be quite descent road
> not perfect but still good.
> It`s better then A1 motorways to Rome in Italy which has much worse surface
> If it`s horrible would word would we use for A1 to Rome ?
> 
> A4 https://www.google.com/maps/place/G...2!3m1!1s0x470f4a4fe3b02cd1:0x6598d78c7223aac1
> 
> A1 Italy https://www.google.com/maps/place/R...2!3m1!1s0x132f6196f9928ebb:0xb90f770693656e38


w koncu ktos temu ukraincowi odpisal rzeczowo, facet wylal swoje zale jakby przez te kilkanascie lat nic sie u nas na drogach nie zmienilo, drogi be, stacje za male, na granicy polskim celnikom nie chce sie pracowac, inne drogi syf... koles chyba zapomnial jaki dopiero syf maja na wschod od korczowej
wystarczy popatrzec jak UA'ni jezdza u nas na A4 (lewy pas), najlepsze ze na pierwszych swiatlach w Wojniczu po przejechaniu obwodnicy Tarnowa ukraincy pytali mnie kiedys gdzie sa bramki do zaplacenia za autostrade hahaha


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## mcarling

^^
This is an English language forum.


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## Kemo

^^ It's just some bullsh*t, you didn't miss anything


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## mcarling

^^
I think the reason this happens so often is the bilingual forum titles. In my opinion, the forum titles should be English-only.


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## ChrisZwolle

How much impact has winter weather had so far on road construction in Poland? It appears to be a rather mild winter so far.


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## salto_angel

^^ mild? Rather snowy recently.


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Warsaw was at or above freezing for most of December: http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/EPWA/2014/12/6/MonthlyHistory.html


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## salto_angel

^^ well, Warsaw is not "the top of the world"  

We had some serious snow fall recently and the temperatures now fall below zero C, so I would expect the construction in many places would stop for few weeks at least. And this is taken into account the tender process where the building time is "X" months not calculating winter time.


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## Chris80678

del


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## Kemo

It has not been opened yet.


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## ChrisZwolle

Chris80678 said:


> Radom southern bypass opened today. It's not an expressway just a standard two lane road with roundabouts


Google Earth shows it has 3 grade-separated interchanges.


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## Chris80678

del


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## Maciek_CK

^^Its standard varies. Partially, it’s 2x2 grade-separated but further west it’s just a single carriageway with crossroads and roundabouts.


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## Kemo

Bids for 6,5km section of S2 motorway in Warsaw (including a bridge over Wisła):

GDDKiA budget - 1 764 775 418,94 PLN

1. Gülermak, PBDiM Mińsk Mazowiecki - 757 643 100,00 PLN
2. Mota-Engil - 775 608 140,52 PLN
3. Mosty-Łódź, Terrag-Asdag - 942 632 818,82 PLN
4. Pol-Aqua - 961 093 614,48 PLN
5. Strabag, Mostostal Kraków - 1 241 685 000,00 PLN


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## rakcancer

Gülermak - the same company involved in construction of second metro line in Warsaw?


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## Strzala

S7 Kielce bypass:



> fot. Łukasz Jóźwiak


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## Chris80678

Strzala said:


> S7 Kielce bypass:


Lovely photo. The road looks so pretty with the trees lining it on both sides :cheers:


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## Don Vito KurDeBalanz

Photo is lovely but something is not right. Ok I got it. No noice bariers? What a heck?


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## rakcancer

you are right. they forgot! there is so many trees. they have a right to be protected against noise...:nuts:


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## Kanadzie

Chris80678 said:


> Lovely photo. The road looks so pretty with the trees lining it on both sides :cheers:


I live in Canada so I know forest, but always impressed a forest like that... you see in PL, also in southern areas of US (e.g. Virginia). The trees are so close and tall you can walk on top of them :lol:


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## dexter2

Because It's propably a pine tree plantation. You've got more natural forests then we have which are generally more diverse in density and length.


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## Maciek_CK

Don Vito KurDeBalanz said:


> Photo is lovely but something is not right. Ok I got it. No noice bariers? What a heck?


Noise barriers in a middle of a forest? No problem! Here's recently opened Mielec bypass, photos by humar. On the right side, there is nothing but forest.



>


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## Rombi

Poland can so much into eco!


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## RHPLUS

Rombi said:


> Poland can so much into eco!


but mainly destroys the charm of landscapes


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## Urbanista1

yes well then why bother building roads that destroy charming landscapes, we should all just move to Germany and UK and turn Poland into a park.


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## Maciek_CK

*bridges*

*A4 Jarosław - Korczowa*










*A4, Katowice, Murckowska interchange*



















*A4 Tarnów - Rzeszów, Sędziszów interchange*










*A4 Zgorzelec - Krzyżowa*










*A8 (Wrocław Motorway Bypass), Rędziński Bridge*










*S6 (Tricity bypass), Karczemki interchange*










*S14 (Pabianice bypass)*









source: GDDKiA


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## rpc08

Maciek_CK said:


> (...)


I'm curious to see pictures of all these "sound walls" in a couple of years. It will be nice to see them all painted with beautiful tags and graffiti, hundreds of kilometers of art and vivid colors. Finally Poland will be a nice and beautiful country to visit...

Seriously, stop it. icard:


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## Venividi

dexter2 said:


> Because It's propably a pine tree plantation. You've got more natural forests then we have which are generally more diverse in density and length.


Yes, those are planted pine forests. we can even see recently logged areas with rows of young trees growing right next to each other


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## x-type

Puležan said:


> Size of the signs is big enough, but the letters are too small (while directional arrows are also big).
> 
> Also, I don't find long placenames such a problem. They can be written in 2 lines (like Stargard Szczecinski centrum), or be shortened. For example, there's lot of long names in Croatia which are usually shortened:
> Slavonski Brod -> Sl. Brod
> Velika Kopanica -> V. Kopanica
> Donji Miholjac -> D. Miholjac
> :cheers:


they do it in Poland, too.
https://maps.google.hr/maps?q=Ostró...=E3W7hpAeygqKlnVlnvKTsQ&cbp=12,123.91,,1,3.48
https://maps.google.hr/maps?q=Ostro...iCVxQUNcYaT9XsTkuGq1YA&cbp=12,119.83,,1,-6.46


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## Maciek_CK

ChrisZwolle said:


> Signage on S-roads is too small.


I don't like sings on A-roads, neither. Here's A4 near Tarnów. There isn't even DK73 signage (due to DK73 not being directly connected to A4; there a ~300m connector :bash: ). Photo by Agusia:










That's what I call a proper sign:


A1-7 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


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## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


>


This is actually the longest junction name in Poland. So far 

"Międzyrzec Podlaski Południe" also has 26 letters but it is not yet signed 



Puležan;122311806 said:


> Also, I don't find long placenames such a problem. They can be written in 2 lines (like Stargard Szczecinski centrum), or be shortened.


Or be as wide as 2 lanes 
https://maps.google.pl/maps?ll=50.1...=9ZBpzp3b9tiOLe0CxDSx1Q&cbp=12,33.69,,1,-5.26


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## Luki_SL

Maciek_CK said:


> I don't like sings on A-roads, neither. Here's A4 near Tarnów. There isn't even DK73 signage (due to DK73 not being directly connected to A4; there a ~300m connector :bash: ). Photo by Agusia:
> 
> A1-7 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr


DK15 isn`t directly connented with A1 motorway, but it`s  signed on the motorway .
I think is a _formal_ problem in the GDDKiA branch - Krakow, to not sign the roads numberes which isn`t connected directly to the motorway....


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## Rombi

Maciek_CK said:


> I don't like sings on A-roads, neither. Here's A4 near Tarnów. There isn't even DK73 signage (due to DK73 not being directly connected to A4; there a ~300m connector :bash: ).



That's exactly what I meant. There chaos in terms of colors, size of signs itself etc. IMO also fonts aren't good. 
Ohh I would really change our system for any other from baltics, Czech rep., Germany, Scandinavia.


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## Maciek_CK

Luki_SL said:


> DK15 isn`t directly connented with A1 motorway, but it`s  signed on the motorway .
> I think is a _formal_ problem in the GDDKiA branch - Krakow, to not sign the roads numberes which isn`t connected directly to the motorway....


Yes but the whole connector is signed DK96. And that’s another absurdity: the whole DK96 is just 1,5km but if that tiny section hadn’t been made a _droga krajowa_, I believe DK15 wouldn’t have been signed, either.


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## Pepov

Richard_P said:


> Other example:
> https://www.google.pl/maps/@50.3037...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sTHIPEXvoCD856tMOcpagQw!2e0
> On this particular junction side road to Racibórz is marked but it doesn't mention that it goes through Głubczyce (pretty important city in that region) and that shorter (10 km) and quicker road to Racibórz through which not only google shows route is located just 1,7 km further apart. Just to confuse drivers that road is signed as for Lisęcice:
> https://www.google.pl/maps/@50.3059...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sq09MRMJA37yaqMb-qj9LeA!2e0
> And there is completely nothing on proper junction which is located 160 m from sign itself.
> https://www.google.pl/maps/@50.3055...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s2NbTIbJdYMNMOlf6TsfUoQ!2e0


According to the law, the only mistake from all this above is signing Lisięcice on second photo. It should be Racibórz. But this sign was placed long, long time ago...


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## Strzala

Outline part of S19 West Lublin Bypass (U/C):



Smatek said:


> ciekawostka - ZOL z samolotu podczas poniedziałkowego lądowania w Świdniku:


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## Richard_P

Pepov said:


> According to the law, the only mistake from all this above is signing Lisięcice on second photo. It should be Racibórz. But this sign was placed long, long time ago...


 Wow, if someone is pleased from fact that sign is according to law but without common sense so I am not surprised that someone may find Czech signage as better. The difference between those two countries is such that in Czech Republic You got lost because You overlook sign, in Poland it is because You spotted a sign which mislead You with odd description.


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## Strzala

*S7 Eastern Kraków Bypass (WOK):*






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWcRlBbmED0&feature=youtu.be


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## Strzala

*Poligonowa street in Lublin - access to interchange 'Lublin Czechów' on S12/S17/S19 Lublin bypass:*


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## JanVL

Tunnel under the 'Dead Wisla' in Gdansk, 1377,5 m long. 


















































































http://www.gik.gda.pl/22/news,581/aktualnosci/raport_z_prac_przy_budowie_tunelu.html


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## Strzala

Interchange Lublin Czechów on S12/S17/S19 Lublin bypass:


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## mdhookey

Just read this from Wroclaw's website (in Polish). It was published today:

http://www.wroclaw.pl/przebuduja-droge-krajowa-8

If I've translated it correctly, it appears that the Infrastructure Ministry has no plans to expand S8 down to the Czech border to replace DK8 for the foreseeable future. Until then, the government would like to repair DK8 and increase its number of lanes in traffic-prone areas.


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## MichiH

mdhookey said:


> Infrastructure Ministry has no plans to expand S8 down to the Czech border


To connect Wroclaw to Prague (R11) or Wroclaw to Brno (R43)?

I think R11 (or D11) is an important road for Czech Republic, Poland will complete S3 up to the border too. I think there should be an expressway-like shortcut b/n A4 and S3 to optimize the Warsaw-Prague route. At Jawor (~15km) or Bolkow (~40km along DK5).

We should postpone any discussion about S8 to Brno until Czech Republic has completed its future R43 south of future R35.


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## mdhookey

MichiH said:


> To connect Wroclaw to Prague (R11) or Wroclaw to Brno (R43)?
> 
> I think R11 (or D11) is an important road for Czech Republic, Poland will complete S3 up to the border too. I think there should be an expressway-like shortcut b/n A4 and S3 to optimize the Warsaw-Prague route. At Jawor (~15km) or Bolkow (~40km along DK5).
> 
> We should postpone any discussion about S8 to Brno until Czech Republic has completed its future R43 south of future R35.


That's pretty much what the article says. While I have no doubt that the Polish will be able to get S3 through Lower Silesia to the Czech border, it remains to be seen with the Czechs, as construction of the Czech Republic's motorway/expressway network seems to have come to a screeching halt thanks to a number of factors (general government incompetence, merry-go-round of ministers at the Transport Ministry and directors at the ŘSD, lack of funds, etc...). The Czech infrastructure situation is truly depressing, and a lot of my Czech colleagues are now starting to realize just how far behind they are when they hear about Poland's road boom. The complete bureaucratic mess with the inability to open the Tunel Blanka here in Prague is just one such example of mass incompetence on all levels.

In any case, I'll be happy when S3/R11 is finally completed. It should take traffic strain off from DK8 on the Polish side, and I/33 on the Czech side. Having worked in Náchod on the border two years ago, a lot of the locals complained to me about the heavy traffic jams through the middle of the town caused by large freight trucks going back and forth across the Czech-Polish border. S8 all the way to Kudowa-Zdrój would be fantastic, though in all honesty, I have no idea where they would put the expressway, considering the valleys in this area can be a bit narrow, plus terrain and land issues from nearby Stołowe Mountains National Park.


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## Surel

^^
R43 has probably the lowest priority of all the motorways/expressways in CZ.


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## ChrisZwolle

The highest priority in CZ would be to start constructing motorways in the first place. The progress over the past 5 years is just pitiful. Practically every planned project did not start.


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## rakcancer

Visible in Google Earth: connection between existing (not in use yet) part of S8 and A1 - currently under construction :


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## MichiH

^^ Looks like S8 could be extended eastwards. Is it still planned/possible to extend the expressway from this point to xxxxxx ?


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## rakcancer

It would make sense. Now S8 is senselessly broken into two separate parts: from Wroclaw to Lodz and from Piotrkow Trybunalski to Warszawa and Bialystok after completion of missing sections. It is due to change of plans and building connection of S8 from Wielun towards Lodz not to Piotrkow Trybunalski as it was initially planned.
Now it looks like S8 should be extended all the way to existing part of S8 somewhere between Tomaszow Mazowiecki and Rawa Mazowiecka...


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## MichiH

rakcancer said:


> Now it *looks like* S8 should be extended all the way to existing part of S8 somewhere between Tomaszow Mazowiecki and Rawa Mazowiecka...


Yes, but is it really planned for the remote future? Why does this very short continuation exist?


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## mcarling

MichiH said:


> We should postpone any discussion about S8 to Brno until Czech Republic has completed its future R43 south of future R35.


I have no doubt that whenever CZ _starts construction_ of the future R43 south of the future R35, there will be discussion here about extending the S8 south to the CZ border. It will not wait for CZ's construction to be completed.


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## Kemo

MichiH said:


> Why does this very short continuation exist?


It exists to make it possible to extend this road  But it is not officially planned yet. 
At the moment it is just an idea called "S74".











It's the same story as A4/S19 interchange near Rzeszów. https://maps.google.pl/maps?ll=50.10463,21.92708&spn=0.007294,0.01929&t=h&z=16


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## Rumours

Eastern Krakow Bypass S7














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## Luki_SL

> *A consortium of Budimex and Ferrovial Agroman chosen to build another section of the S7*
> On 17 March 2015, the Olsztyn Branch of the General Directorate of National Roads and Motorways delivered a message about selecting the bid submitted by a consortium made up of Budimex (95 per cent, leader) and Ferrovial Agroman (5 per cent) to build the Miłomłyn – Olsztynek section of the S7 dual carriageway, sub-section Ostróda Północ – Ostróda Południe in the course of the S7 with the construction of Ostróda’s ring road in the course of national road No 16. The net value of the bid is PLN 1.072 billion.


Read more : http://www.budimex.pl/en/about-budi...hosen-to-build-another-section-of-the-s7.html


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## rakcancer

MichiH said:


> Yes, but is it really planned for the remote future? Why does this very short continuation exist?


I haven't heard anything about possible extension in near future...


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## rakcancer

Extension of DTS in Gliwice:


K4r0lSz said:


> Na gazeta.pl pojawił się artykuł, z zestawem 31 zdjęć Krzysztofa Krzemińskiego, oto kilka wybranych:


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## Surel

ChrisZwolle said:


> The highest priority in CZ would be to start constructing motorways in the first place. The progress over the past 5 years is just pitiful. Practically every planned project did not start.


If it would be up to me I would hire the whole GDDKiA to do the job in CZ. I would pay them double. :lol:


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## mcarling

MichiH said:


> Yes, but is it really planned for the remote future? Why does this very short continuation exist?


In my opinion, it would have been inept to design the S8/A1 intersection without provision for eastward continuation of the S8. There does not have to be an immediate plan for extension. There does not even need to be a specific plan about exactly where the extension would lead. Any eastward extension would reach or cross the S8 to Warsaw. Knowing that is enough to justify provision for the possibility. It is so much easier, less costly, and less disruptive to build the intersection to accommodate an eastward extension than to rebuild it later when there is a specific plan, that it makes sense (to me) to do it from the start.


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## rakcancer

^^
oh boy! what a sophisticated language


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## czerwony_bo_szybszy

rakcancer said:


> It would make sense. Now S8 is senselessly broken into two separate parts: from Wroclaw to Lodz and from Piotrkow Trybunalski to Warszawa and Bialystok after completion of missing sections. It is due to change of plans and building connection of S8 from Wielun towards Lodz not to Piotrkow Trybunalski as it was initially planned.
> Now it looks like S8 should be extended all the way to existing part of S8 somewhere between Tomaszow Mazowiecki and Rawa Mazowiecka...


this is due to different functions planned for these two parts of S8
as western provides connection of Wrocław and Warsaw via A2 then
while eastern is connector of Warsaw and Silesian region via A1
thanks to that solution traffic from Warsaw to Wrocław and Silesia is not mixed, moreover connection of Wrocław and Łódź is shorter and Łódź received southern bypass (S8 through Bełchatów would not fulfil that function


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## Strzala

S7 [E77] U/C Jędrzejów - świętokrzyskie/małopolskie border (almost 21 kilometres):






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ujKr_gTZ8c&feature=youtu.be


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## bewu1

Today, new tender for project and construction of [S5] Wronczyn - Radomicko was launched (in total appr. 35 km of 2x2 expressway). This section is between Poznań and Leszno.


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## SRC_100

^^
It means that S5 between Wrocław(A8)-Poznań-Bydgoszcz-A1(Grudziądz) is in the tender or u/c or already built... :cheers:


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## Strzala

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy8FJJrhdbg&feature=youtu.be


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## Luki_SL

S19 expressway, Lublin bypass :



> Wycinka drzew w lesie w Konopnicy
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Source, more photos : http://www.s19zol.pl/index.php/2-uncategorised/23-marzec-2015


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## MajKeR_

Surel said:


> If it would be up to me I would hire the whole GDDKiA to do the job in CZ. I would pay them double. :lol:


We might make an exchange: GDDKiA instead of České dráhy


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## Lempsss

In my Garmin dezl 760 LMT with 2015.40 ALL maps there is A1 near Lodz already drivable.:nuts:


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## Maciek_CK

^^The ambitious goal is to allow traffic by the end of the year. Once it’s achieved, it’s going to be a huge improvement in our road network. Every single direction plus the third largest city will benefit.

And on that bombshell I’d like to announce the 14000th post .


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## mcarling

kostas97 said:


> According to the Wikipedia article about the S61, the bypasses of Augostów and Stawiski are already open.....that's why I said resume instead of start.


Correct. I have driven on it. I also hope that construction of the S61 will resume soon.


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## Kemo

^^
Construction of Suwałki bypass may start in late 2016. Construction of remaining sections will start no sooner than in 2018.



kostas97 said:


> But I wonder.....is the Korszowa border with Ukraine busier than Terespol??
> If it is, then OK, but if not, there is no reason for the A4 to end there.
> Then the A2 should be constructed in whole.


AADT in Terespol & Kukuryki was ~5000

AADT in Korczowa & Medyka was ~9000

(Figures from 2010)

Also remember that A4 was part of the EURO2012 project


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## kostas97

Kemo said:


> ^^
> Construction of Suwałki bypass may start in late 2016. Construction of remaining sections will start no sooner than in 2018.
> 
> 
> 
> AADT in Terespol & Kukuryki was ~5000
> 
> AADT in Korczowa & Medyka was ~9000
> 
> (Figures from 2010)
> 
> Also remember that A4 was part of the EURO2012 project


Oh, I see....OK then
However, most of the new parts of the A4 were given to traffic after the Euro 2012, right?


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## Strzala

S19 West Lublin Bypass (ZOL):


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## Kanadzie

kostas97 said:


> Oh, I see....OK then
> However, most of the new parts of the A4 were given to traffic after the Euro 2012, right?


well duh, infrastructure is always planned to oben before big event but it gets ****edup and it opens after at cost overrun, natuerlich


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## geogregor

Some shots of A1 between junctions Mszana and Gorzyczki.

Entering in Mszana, view on the infamous bridge which caused so many problems.


DSC09477 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09478 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

View from the services in Mszana. I was there maybe 15 minutes and only one car entered the service area. There was also only one truck parked. I can't see this place making any money.

From this vantage point you can see the impressive earthworks needed on this stretch of A1.

DSC09481 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09483 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09490 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09493 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09497 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09498 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


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## geogregor

DSC09504 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Driving northbound from junction Gorzyczki to Mszana. Very little midday traffic 

DSC09505 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09506 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09508 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09509 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Services Mszana on northbound carriageway still closed

DSC09512 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09513 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09515 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


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## geogregor

Approaching Mszana junction.

DSC09517 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09518 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09519 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09520 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09521 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09522 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Bridge again.

DSC09523 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

DSC09524 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Overall it is beautiful, scenic and empty road, pure joy to drive.


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## geogregor

And the last set from junction Sosnica between A1, A4, DK44 and DW902 (DTS).
We'll take collector lanes to see the signage.


DSC09539 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09540 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09541 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09542 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09543 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09544 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Slip road to DW902 starts with one lane but then widens to two. I don't really get why. It doesn't add capacity. 

DSC09545 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

End for now. I will soon add some shots from DTS (DW902)


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## Chris80678

Impressive photos - shows how far Poland has come in terms of building new motorways. Go Poland!


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## Kemo

kostas97 said:


> However, most of the new parts of the A4 were given to traffic after the Euro 2012, right?


All of them


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## rakcancer

*Progress on S8 -south of Warsaw:*




Yaper said:


> W końcu udało mi się zajrzeć w te strony.
> Ujęcia się pewnie będą powtarzać, ale jak już coś cyknąłem to wrzucę. Wziąłem niestety tylko "dugie szkło" tak więc ujęcia będą doyć ciasne.
> 
> Mapa UMP-pcPL
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> 3. Przenosiny na KL-14 i rzut oka w stronę WD-16.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. oraz na WD-13.
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 5. Kolejna kładka to KL-17 skąd widok na w. Sokołowska.
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cdn ...





Yaper said:


> 6. oraz w kierunku Stolycy, kierunek PKiN. Pod nami świeża masa a w tle kawałek po którym legalnie można przejachać się S8.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 7.
> 
> 
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> 8. Ładny widok na warszawski skyline będą mieli piesi przeprawiający się kładką.
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9. KL-17
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 10. Pod WD-29, co ciekawe da się tu dojechać uwałowanym piaskiem po DZ-120 i DL-128 (zakazów brak).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 11. Idziemy na WA-21, przed nami wjazd na Shella.
> 
> 
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> 
> Cdn ...





Yaper said:


> 12. Rzut oka znów na WD-29.
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 14. Coraz wyżej.
> 
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> 
> 15. I jesteśmy na WA-21. Widok na Janki i...
> 
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> 16. ...obracamy się w lewo...
> 
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> 17.
> 
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> Cdn ...





Yaper said:


> 18. Powstające ŁJ-3 Nadarzyn->Magdalenka.
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 19. Szerszy kadr w kierunku Wolicy.
> 
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> 
> 20. i zoomik.
> 
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> 
> 23. Z tarasu widokowego na WA-22 i 23
> 
> 
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> 
> Cdn ...





Yaper said:


> 24. Oraz na WA-20 i majaczący w tle zielony WD-19.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26. i znów WD-20.
> 
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> 
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> 
> 27. Pierdolnik przy powstającej DL-115.
> 
> 
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> 
> 28. Na koniec widok od strony DAFa na KL-30.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I to by było na tyle.
> 
> Fotorelacja wstawiona automatycznie.


----------



## kostas97

geogregor said:


> And the last set from junction Sosnica between A1, A4, DK44 and DW902 (DTS).
> We'll take collector lanes to see the signage.
> 
> 
> DSC09539 by Geogregor*, on Flickr
> 
> 
> DSC09540 by Geogregor*, on Flickr
> 
> 
> DSC09541 by Geogregor*, on Flickr
> 
> 
> DSC09542 by Geogregor*, on Flickr
> 
> 
> DSC09543 by Geogregor*, on Flickr
> 
> 
> DSC09544 by Geogregor*, on Flickr
> 
> Slip road to DW902 starts with one lane but then widens to two. I don't really get why. It doesn't add capacity.
> 
> DSC09545 by Geogregor*, on Flickr
> 
> End for now. I will soon add some shots from DTS (DW902)


Wow, how nice is that motorway.....oh btw, is there any information about the Lodz-Katowice part?
Is it going to be constructed in the recent future??


----------



## geogregor

kostas97 said:


> Wow, how nice is that motorway.....oh btw, is there any information about the Lodz-Katowice part?
> Is it going to be constructed in the recent future??


A1 in Silesia region is a really nice freeway/motorway indeed. 

At the moment there are tenders out for the stretch from the current terminus near Katowice airport towards Czestochowa, including its bypass. Funding is secured so it will get build as soon as all the bureaucratic obstacles are cleared.

Further north, between Czestochowa and Lodz, it is all one big unknown. Which is weird as it is one of the busiest long distance roads in Poland.


----------



## mcarling

geogregor said:


> Further north between Czestochowa and Lodz [construction of the A1] is all one big unknown. Which is weird as [the DK1 between Czestochowa and Lodz] is one of the busiest long distance roads in Poland.


Yes, but the DK1 between Czestochowa and Lodz is already 2x2. Construction of the A1 will make it 2x3, remove the several traffic lights, and limit access to motor vehicles.


----------



## geogregor

Few shots from the DTS (DW902) between the A1 in Gliwice and center of Katowice.

It is not motorway, nor S-class expressway, but a rather weird status dual carriageway. 

DSC09546 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09547 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09548 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09549 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

On the recently open stretch there are some problems with subsidence. Apparently the main contractor should do remedy works as it is still under warranty. 

DSC09551 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09553 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09554 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09555 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


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## geogregor

DSC09556 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Construction of small services

DSC09557 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Closed exit for a new industrial zone

DSC09558 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09559 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09560 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09561 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09563 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09564 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09565 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09566 by Geogregor*, on Flickr
That's all from my recent trip to Poland


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## geogregor

geogregor said:


> That's all from my recent trip to Poland


Actually I realized I have a few more photos, this time from the new bypass of my home town: Jastrzebie Zdroj.

It is new stretch of DW933:

DSC09528 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09529 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09530 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09532 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09533 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09534 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09535 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09537 by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC09538 by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Now it is definitely all I have from this trip.


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## Mateusz

That's a pretty high standard for a local road. Well done.


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## rakcancer

One more time *S8 near Warsaw*. 
Just want to show a different type of noise barriers that has been built here. Still, too much and too big in some places IMO but at least something different than that ugly green plastic-metal type that spread out throughout all country...



Starver said:


> 35. Trochę mnie przeraził widok _tych_ ekranów betonów akustycznych.





Starver said:


> 47. Widok zza ekranu w stronę Warszawy


It would be perfect if after some time it changes to that: but this is only my dream.


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## SRC_100

kostas97 said:


> but concerning the Warsaw ring part of the road, I don't see much progress......


S8 in Warasaw to be finished this year (except Marki bypass, but I don`t include it to Warsaw Ring Road).
40% of S2 is completed, the reminder is at the tender stage.
The biggest problem is with S17 (east part of WRR), there isn`t even DSU (environmental decision).


----------



## toonczyk

kostas97 said:


> I'm talking about the S8 in total....but concerning the Warsaw ring part of the road, I don't see much progress......


S8 between Wrocław all the way to Białystok is either ready, U/C or in tender (see here). That's really something. As far as Warsaw ring goes, the part that's marked as S8 is mostly ready, with the bridge section getting close to being finished (photos earlier on). Southern outgoing part (Raszyn bypass) is U/C and will be opened this year, northern outgoing part (Marki bypass) is in tender. Frankly this is way more progress than anyone anticipated 10 years ago.



mcarling said:


> http://www.oanda.com/currency/converter/


That's easier:
https://www.google.com/search?q=565+PLN+in+EUR


----------



## kostas97

toonczyk said:


> S8 between Wrocław all the way to Białystok is either ready, U/C or in tender (see here). That's really something. As far as Warsaw ring goes, the part that's marked as S8 is mostly ready, with the bridge section getting close to being finished (photos earlier on). Southern outgoing part (Raszyn bypass) is U/C and will be opened this year, northern outgoing part (Marki bypass) is in tender. Frankly this is way more progress than anyone anticipated 10 years ago.
> 
> 
> That's easier:
> https://www.google.com/search?q=565+PLN+in+EUR


OK then, i see
So, let's just expect the finishing of those works (and of the whole S8) soon.....

Oh, about the S2, I read on Wikipedia that the Warsaw residents didn't want a motorway but an expressway......but isn't their capacity practically the same??


----------



## geogregor

kostas97 said:


> Oh, about the S2, I read on Wikipedia that the Warsaw residents didn't want a motorway but an expressway......but isn't their capacity practically the same??


Yes, but somehow "regular" people (as oppose to skyscraperecity geeks) think otherwise. It is just less threatening and easier to push through the public consultations.

It is the same in many other countries (UK and Ireland come to mind)

In Ireland they did neat trick of building their motorways as "high quality dual carriageways" and then declassifying them as motorways once finished (or in some cases even during construction). 

Maybe one day Poland will go that route.


----------



## toonczyk

kostas97 said:


> Oh, about the S2, I read on Wikipedia that the Warsaw residents didn't want a motorway but an expressway......but isn't their capacity practically the same??


Generally speaking 2x2 A and S roads in Poland are very similar in terms of technical details. Those additional 25 cm per lane add very little in terms of safety, it's mostly just for lorry drivers' comfort. This distinction between A and S roads in Poland (different signage, tolls etc.) is comfusing and unnecessary, but I think it's just a matter of time those are somehow unified (same motorway sign system, electronic tolls).


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## MichiH

geogregor said:


> It is the same in many other countries (UK and Ireland come to mind)
> In Ireland they did neat trick of building their motorways as "high quality dual carriageways" and then declassifying them as motorways once finished (or in some cases even during construction).


Germany and Austria too: Motorways are awful, expressways are better, field pathes are desired . Czech Republic announced to rededicate their expressways (R roads) to motorways (D roads) a few years ago...


----------



## kostas97

MichiH said:


> Germany and Austria too: Motorways are awful, expressways are better, field pathes are desired . Czech Republic announced to rededicate their expressways (R roads) to motorways (D roads) a few years ago...


IDK about Austria, but concerning Germany, I've noticed that their Autobahns are not maintained at all.....this roads are safe, but this is probably their main problem.


----------



## kostas97

toonczyk said:


> Generally speaking 2x2 A and S roads in Poland are very similar in terms of technical details. Those additional 25 cm per lane add very little in terms of safety, it's mostly just for lorry drivers' comfort. This distinction between A and S roads in Poland (different signage, tolls etc.) is comfusing and unnecessary, but I think it's just a matter of time those are somehow unified (same motorway sign system, electronic tolls).


I've noticed that (concerning the distinction).
I can barely understand if what I see is a motorway or an expressway. 

And as far as the tolls are concerned, are they all electronic?
And are the expressways tolled as well?


----------



## toonczyk

kostas97 said:


> And as far as the tolls are concerned, are they all electronic?
> And are the expressways tolled as well?


A and S roads use electronic tolls for vehicles >3,5t.
Expressways are free for cars. Motorways (well, not all of them) are tolled for cars, manual booths are in use.

The system will probably be changed (most likely unified - electronic toll for both cars and trucks) in the coming years.


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## kostas97

toonczyk said:


> A and S roads use electronic tolls for vehicles >3,5t.
> Expressways are free for cars. Motorways (well, not all of them) are tolled for cars, manual booths are in use.
> 
> The system will probably be changed (most likely unified - electronic toll for both cars and trucks) in the coming years.


How does that ETC system work?
Is the charge per kilometres driven, perhaps?


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## Kemo

Some photos of the remaining section of A4 that is still u/c taken from the project website. Starting from Jarosław-West and going west:


----------



## Kemo




----------



## kurz.L

Nice pictures! kay:


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## ChrisZwolle

Didn't they start construction on that in 2010 or so? This looks like a motorway that's under construction for maybe 1 - 1.5 years. Progress is not too good.


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## Kemo

Yeah, it is 4 years since the construction works started in spring 2011. At least most viaducts are almost ready


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## Luki_SL

ChrisZwolle said:


> Didn't they start construction on that in 2010 or so? This looks like a motorway that's under construction for maybe 1 - 1.5 years. Progress is not too good.


The construction was canceled for a year. The first contractor - Polimex-Mostostal was thrown out of the contract due to delays.


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## rakcancer

I got surprised too looking at these pictures. Even with one year break this is still small progress... ;(


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## geogregor

rakcancer said:


> I got surprised too looking at these pictures. Even with one year break this is still small progress... ;(


First contractor was very slow and there was little progress for a long time.
Then they got kicked out, then there was procedure of finding out what actually was done and writing new specifications for the new tender before starting the new tendering process, which also took a while.

The first contractor was massively helped by Polish government so for a while nobody really wanted to cancel the contract. It all took too long comparing with situations where for example Irish contractors got kicked out from the A1.


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## rakcancer

So we have another whole year ahead of construction of this section... How about section from Radymno to Ukrainian border? It is open but not fully up to motorway standard yet. Why is that so and for how long yet?


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## kostas97

rakcancer said:


> So we have another whole year ahead of construction of this section... How about section from Radymno to Ukrainian border? It is open but not fully up to motorway standard yet. Why is that so and for how long yet?


As far as I know, that section is operational since mid 2014.


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## Janek0

Max Mar said:


> If they will extend the S8 to link the S8 they will have to destroy this toll plaza :lol: or built another parallel route to continue S8 :lol:


 This toll plaza will never operate and is to be destroyed anyway, because implementation of manual tolls is waived in favor of electronic only tolls.


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## rakcancer

kostas97 said:


> As far as I know, that section is operational since mid 2014.


 It is open but not finished yet. Check map from first page of thread.


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## x-type

geogregor said:


>


there is the same panel at entrance to Katowice on DK81. is it anywhere else too? and is it only reserved for Katowice, or some other cities have it too?


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## rakcancer

This is just welcome sign . Most of cities has same sort of theses signs with different design. Why are you asking particularly about Katowice?


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## Eulanthe

rakcancer said:


> It is open but not finished yet. Check map from first page of thread.


I think the only thing that's missing is the building of the new car checkpoint at Korczowa/Краківець. I've got the feeling that until it's built, trucks have to come off the A4 slightly before the border crossing and use the old DK94 to approach. Otherwise, the A4 is complete and open.

As for electronic tolling, nothing is certain. Vignettes are the most logical choice, but I'm not sure there's money in the State budget to buy out the concessions of the private motorway operators. Electronic tolling for cars won't happen IMO.


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## Luki_SL

x-type said:


> there is the same panel at entrance to Katowice on DK81. is it anywhere else too? and is it only reserved for Katowice, or some other cities have it too?


The Katowice has the entrance panel on the all main roads owned by the city. It`s all the entrances to the city exept of the A4 motorway and S86 expressway managed by GDDKiA.
 National Road no. 86 
 National Road no. 79


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## x-type

rakcancer said:


> This is just welcome sign . Most of cities has same sort of theses signs with different design. Why are you asking particularly about Katowice?


because i didn't know that it appears at all entrances in exactly the same shape, so that's why i find it interesting


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## Kemo

Construction of Gniezno bypass (S5 motorway) - photos from project website:

1. Gniezno-South interchange; city of Gniezno and current DK5 it the top-right









2.









3.









4.









5. Where S5 meets the old DK5 (north of Gniezno)









6. Junction "Mielno"


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## rakcancer

The winner of tender has been chosen for design and upgrade of existing dual carriageways road to expressway standards of 10km section of *S8 south of Warsaw *between Przeszkody and Paszkow. Winner: Intercor (never heard of this company). Price tag: 437mlnPLN. Deadline in: 31 months.


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## paf1

10 km - 31 months :bash:


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## Richard_P

rakcancer said:


> Winner: Intercor (never heard of this company).


Just two clicks and You would know:
http://www.intercor.eu/zrealizowane/
Not to mention that this company finished infamous (botched by Alpine) Mszana bridge on A1 which was turning point where company showed that it can handle ambitious projects.


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## toonczyk

paf1 said:


> 10 km - 31 months :bash:


That includes getting the design and all required permits... How is that bad pace, considering it's a reconstruction under traffic?


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## SRC_100

paf1 said:


> 10 km - 31 months :bash:


Have you taken into consideration this is ZiZ - "Design and Build" - project? 
So, now you can stop bagnging hammer you head.


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## rakcancer

Richard_P said:


> Just two clicks and You would know:
> http://www.intercor.eu/zrealizowane/
> Not to mention that this company finished infamous (botched by Alpine) Mszana bridge on A1 which was turning point where company showed that it can handle ambitious projects.


Clicking is not a problem at all  What I wanted to say is that this company from what I see does specialize in bridges which of course there is nothing wrong with that. However I don't recall that company winning tender as a prime contractor for bigger road project before.


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## ChrisZwolle

Intercor is frequently bidding for Polish road projects. They don't seem to get awarded many projects though.


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## rakcancer

So they value their work by not trying to win with cheap, unrealistic offer. Good!


----------



## rakcancer

*First works on S19- western bypass of Lublin:*











source: https://www.facebook.com/gddkia?fref=ts&ref=br_tf


----------



## Kemo

S7 south of Radom, from the project website:


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## londonzooy

exciting!


----------



## rakcancer

*S6*

City of Gdansk is trying to find source for financing of upgrade of existing exit "Szadolki" on S6- Tricity bypass. That exit was built as a temporary solution back in 70s as an access road for dumping trucks for nearby facility. It survived till today but technically it is not up to expressway standards. One of the ideas was to just close it but now after reevaluation the decision was made to keep it. 
There are two options of upgrade, both also include widening big portion of S6 from two to three lanes. First option is more expensive. 
Estimated cost: 160mlnPLN



Existing situation:


First option:


Second option:


Source:
http://www.trojmiasto.pl/wiadomosci...zla-Szadolki-Potrzeba-160-mln-zl-n88994.html#


----------



## rakcancer

*In the meantime in Gdansk. Progress on tunnel construction:*















source: http://www.gik.gda.pl/22/news,581/aktualnosci/raport_z_prac_przy_budowie_tunelu.html


----------



## JanVL

Nysa bypass - DK46 & DK41 - has been approved

https://www.facebook.com/gddkia


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*Droga Ekspresowa / Expressway S8 Złoczew - Sieradz*


----------



## Luki_SL

A contract was signed today for the second carriageway construction of S3 expressway, section Sulechów Zielona Góra North.
Lenght - *13,4* km,
Completion date: summer 2017

http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/18314...nku-od-Sulechowa-do-wezla-Zielona-Gora-Polnoc


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## Strzala

Luki_SL said:


> A contract was signed today for the second carriageway construction of S3 expressway, section Sulechów Zielona Góra North.
> Lenght - *13,4* km,
> Completion date: summer 2017
> 
> http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/18314...nku-od-Sulechowa-do-wezla-Zielona-Gora-Polnoc


^^ Crossing for animals on S3 between Gorzów Wielkopolski and Międzyrzec



> https://www.facebook.com/gddkia/pho...07450.395151383870747/917930394926174/?type=1


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## Kemo

S3: Sulechów – Zielona Góra-North 13.4km (April 2015 to August 2017) [2nd c/w] – project – map
S8: Mężenin - Jeżewo 14.3km (March 2015 to July 2017) – project – map
S8: Prosienica - Zambrów-West 14.9km (March 2015 to July 2017) – project – map

and btw


> S5: Kaczkowo – Korzensko 29.3km


change "Kaczkowo" to "Rydzyna"


----------



## jwojcie

rakcancer said:


> *In the meantime in Gdansk. Progress on tunnel construction:*


What is that white instalation?

VV thx. Looks like some kind of futuristic instalation


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## rakcancer

These pipes are frozen


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## Kemo

There is recent imagery of S8 Trasa Salomea - Wolica (Raszyn bypass) available on Google Earth.
You can see how a motorway should look like 12 months after the start of construction :cheers:


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## MichiH

Luki_SL said:


> A contract was signed today for the second carriageway construction of S3 expressway, section Sulechów Zielona Góra North.
> Lenght - *13,4* km,
> Completion date: summer 2017
> 
> http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/18314...nku-od-Sulechowa-do-wezla-Zielona-Gora-Polnoc


The press release says:



> Oprócz budowy nowej jezdni kontrakt zakłada również wykonanie prac na istniejącej, w celu dostosowania jej do odpowiednich parametrów oraz do ruchu jednokierunkowego (w tej chwili odbywa się na niej ruch w dwie strony). Powstaną również dwa nowe mosty na Odrze. Pierwszy wraz z nową drogą ma być gotowy w sierpniu 2017 roku. Natomiast drugi – w miejscu istniejącego, który nie spełnia norm dla tej klasy drogi, a ponadto jest już mocno wyeksploatowany – zostanie oddany do użytku dwa lata później.


Google translated:



> In addition to the construction of a new carriageway, the contract also implies the execution of works on the existing one, in order to adapt it to the relevant parameters and for one-way traffic (at the moment it is used in two directions). There will also be two new bridges over the Oder River. First, the new carriageway will be completed in August 2017. While the second one - in place of the existing one, which does not meet the standards for this road class, and in addition is already worn out - will be completed two years later.


If I got it right, the existing carriageway will be renovated. I guess an hard shoulder will also be added? But it is alreday grade-separated. Is it likely that both carriageways will be in service short-term in 2017 or do we have to wait until 2019 to see both c/w in service for the first time?


----------



## Maciek_CK

*S7 Warszawa - Kielce*

S7 Warszawa – Kielce, section Szydłowiec – Skarżysko-Kamienna. Photos by sprenzynaKRK.


----------



## Maciek_CK

*S7 Kielce - Kraków*

S7 Kielce – Kraków, section Jędrzejów – Wodzisław. Photos by sprenzynaKRK.


----------



## piotr71

*A1, near "Zabrze Północ" junction.*


----------



## RipleyLV

I think it's unnecessary to mention Poznań at that particular place.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Posting A2 200 kilometers in advance is also a bit questionable. Eventually Poznań can be reached via S11, which is much shorter than via A1-A2.


----------



## SRC_100

MichiH said:


> If I got it right, the existing carriageway will be renovated. I guess an hard shoulder will also be added?


Yes, it will.



MichiH said:


> But it is alreday grade-separated. Is it likely that both carriageways will be in service short-term in 2017


Yes, it is.
Yes, they will.




MichiH said:


> or do we have to wait until 2019 to see both c/w in service for the first time?


We have to wait till 2019 just for second (new) bridge to be built instead of the existed one.

Edit:

The old bridge

Next to the right (going north) is going to be built the new bridge which will be used for south-north carriageway.
As you see the existing bridge is quite narrow and does not meet the current standards.


----------



## Kemo

MichiH said:


> If I got it right, the existing carriageway will be renovated. I guess an hard shoulder will also be added?


The old carriageway is wide enough (2 lanes plus an emergency lane will fit), there's no need to widen it. Only repave. (Except for the bridge, of course.)



ChrisZwolle said:


> Posting A2 200 kilometers in advance is also a bit questionable. Eventually Poznań can be reached via S11, which is much shorter than via A1-A2.


...and posting Warsaw via A2 doesn't make much sense, because S8 is supposed to be the route between Silesia and Warsaw.


----------



## Kanadzie

RipleyLV said:


> I think it's unnecessary to mention Poznań at that particular place.


It's always worth it to mention Poznań :cheers:


----------



## salto_angel

ChrisZwolle said:


> Posting A2 200 kilometers in advance is also a bit questionable. Eventually Poznań can be reached via S11, which is much shorter than via A1-A2.


Eventually = not earlier than in 5 years. Until then let it stay and inform.


----------



## Dusha

Hi, could you please advise on the current status of S8 construction south from S2 (between interchanges Opacz (S2) and Paszków)
When is it expected to be completed / opened for traffic?



> The contract to build the section immediately south of Warsaw was signed in April 2013, with completion planned in 32 months. The contract involves construction of 11,5 km of expressway between interchanges Opacz (S2) and Paszków. There is a possibility that this part of the expressway will open to traffic in spring 2015


----------



## mcarling

Eulanthe said:


> I'm hoping that if we get a mild winter again, there's a possibility that the S5 from Korzensko to Trzebnica will open earlier than scheduled.


As far as I know, it's scheduled to open December 2017. How early do you think it might open?


----------



## Luki_SL

A contract was signed today for the construction of S7 expressway (2+2), section Ostróda South - Olsztynek West.
Lenght – *20,1 km*,
Completion date: summer 2017









http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/18401/Podpisano-umowy-na-kolejne-dwa-odcinki-S7


----------



## rakcancer

First works on extension of S8 in Marki near Warsaw:



Shooter85 said:


> Zdjęcia sie moga powtorzyć z ostatnią relacja ale nie mam obecnei czasu by je posegregowac.
> 
> Stan na 08.04.2015
> 
> 1. Ostatnio pisalem o barierach betonowych ktore zostaly przywiezione - Juz znam ich przeznaczenie




End of existing S8:


----------



## Kemo

Luki_SL said:


> A contract was signed today for the construction of S7 expressway (2+2), section Ostróda South - Olsztynek West.
> Lenght – *20,1 km*,
> Completion date: summer 2017



*S7:* Ostróda-South (DK16) – Olsztynek-West (S51) 20.1km (April 2015 to June 2017) – project – map


----------



## Eulanthe

mcarling said:


> As far as I know, it's scheduled to open December 2017. How early do you think it might open?


I could see it opening by October if there's another mild winter - they seem to be pretty far along with the earthworks already. The Trzebnica-Wrocław section in comparison is nowhere near as far along.


----------



## mcarling

Eulanthe said:


> I could see it opening by October if there's another mild winter - they seem to be pretty far along with the earthworks already.


Do you mean October 2015, 2016, or 2017?


----------



## RipleyLV

Not sure if real or photoshop :lol:


----------



## SRC_100

^^
Don`t be suprised if real 
In Sept. 2013 this sign looks like this... find the difference


----------



## Kemo

Fresh concrete on A1 (Tuszyn interchange) 

Photos from *Florek.T*


>


And fresh asphalt on S69 (Żywiec-Soła junction) 

Photos from *budowniczy_S*


>


----------



## Eulanthe

mcarling said:


> Do you mean October 2015, 2016, or 2017?


Ah, 2017! Apparently the due date actually is 10.17, so I don't think they'll have any problems in meeting that deadline. 

The delays in announcing the S5 in Wielkopolska are becoming highly annoying however. Poznań-Zachód to Stęszew is so badly needed that it's not even funny, especially during rush hour. The contract should have been signed in the 1st quarter of 2015, but there's no sign of that happening yet.

Looking on the GDDKiA website, the Leszno bypass is also terribly delayed for unknown reasons. Is it possible that the GDDKiA is waiting on the decision about road tolls before starting to build?


----------



## seszele

*S69*

It was (April 7th):



Kemo said:


> Photos of S69 from the project website
> 
> Junction Łodygowice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As of today bypass completely removed:
> 
> 
> 
> budowniczy S said:
> 
> 
> 
> 21. ciąg główny w miejscu by pasu
> 
> 
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> 22. warstwa utex
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> 25.
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> 
> So much progress just in 18 days.
> Deadline : 2nd of July.
> 70 days to go.
> So I think there is hope for completion right in time.
> :cheers:
Click to expand...


----------



## hokus-pokus

Guys, hardly anybody gives a damn about following all what is under construction in Poland in such a detail. It's boring and you just kill this thread, imho. 
Anybody interested - mosty Polish folk - will find it in Polish section. Instead, show here only what is recently completed, interesting videos, photos, facts, funny etc.
my 3 grosze


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## ChrisZwolle

I disagree, photos of construction progress are interesting too, as long as it's not a flood of earthwork photos that could be taken anywhere  I would suggest to post the most interesting photos, not the intricate detail unless there's a good reason to do so.


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## kostas97

Seeing road construction in a country-Poland in this occasion- is really interesting as you can see the roads that will make the lifes of some people easier and transportation between cities (or nations) becoming more adequate and simple.
I mean that watching the development of road projects like these makes you happier, especially if you consider that when ready, these roads will really boost the realationships of people in many cities or countries, easing their connection and bringing them closer.....that's my thought.


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## sponge_bob

Poland will start more 2+2 projects in the next 5 years than any other EU country, of course this thread will continue to be busy for a long time yet. 

Only Greece has more 2+2 under construction ( probably ) than Poland does right now and that is a legacy issue ( they should be finished long ago and are not) . 

Many EU countries only have a few KM of key 2+2 roads under construction if indeed anything worthwhile at all. Belgium and the UK come to mind. Belgiums motorway network even shrank last year when a short section near Liege was closed.


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## Kemo

Raszyn bypass (S8 "Trasa Salomea - Wolica").

photos by *Filipbb*

Direction: south, Raszyn to the left.









"Janki Małe" interchange to the right.


----------



## kostas97

sponge_bob said:


> Poland will start more 2+2 projects in the next 5 years than any other EU country, of course this thread will continue to be busy for a long time yet.
> 
> Only Greece has more 2+2 under construction ( probably ) than Poland does right now and that is a legacy issue ( they should be finished long ago and are not) .
> 
> Many EU countries only have a few KM of key 2+2 roads under construction if indeed anything worthwhile at all. Belgium and the UK come to mind. Belgiums motorway network even shrank last year when a short section near Liege was closed.


As you referred to Greece, I have to say that it's true that there are many 2+2 roads U/C in Greece, but they take many years to be completed, mostly due to the economical problems of the construction companies and the government's neglection.....that's probably the worst thing that is done in here.....many areas in Greece are still connected by very bad quality roads and nothing is done to even improve them, while the 2+2 roads are under construction, which, as I see, does not happen in Poland.....

Poland seems to have given a lot of money to reconstruct its whole road network right from the beginning and to further improve it, but Greece has given nothing to keep its older roads in a good condition.....we tend to think that the old roads will not be needed after the motorways are finished and we abandon them....I think that's really disappointing.

Oh, and you are right, sponge_bob, if Poland keeps on constructing such good roads in that pace, the thread will really keep on being busy!


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## Stevn

Poland is one big construction site...


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## Luki_SL

S7 expressway construction near Szydłowiec, aerial photo 










https://www.facebook.com/gddkia/pho...07450.395151383870747/928101310575749/?type=1


----------



## kostas97

Stevn said:


> Poland is one big construction site...


Yes, pretty much.
As we can all see, the road construction doesn't stop and road construction is on its peak.


----------



## rakcancer

I wish Poland has such a well developed motorway/expressway network like in France or Netherlands...maybe in 10-15 years...


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## MichiH

^^ You won't. You are building concrete motorways...


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## Kemo

S8, photos from *akromaster*

Bypass of Mężenin and the section towards Zambrów


















The section towards Białystok


----------



## Strzala

*S19 West Lublin Bypass:*



> https://www.facebook.com/gddkia/posts/936262609759619


----------



## Puležan

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ In 20 years it's not 'once in a while', but a whole network that needs replacement or major renovation...


Exactly! It's a simple logic: many motorways are being built right now (hundreds of kilometres per year), so those motorways will need reconstruction in the same time (around 2040), because their "expiration date" will be similar. So Poland will become a big construction site once again.



> Just see in France, they almost exclusively use asphalt, and there are practically no road works that disrupt traffic. And the pavement is of excellent quality. Same in the Netherlands.


It's the same situation in Croatia. OK, our motorways are not that heavily used like in Italy or France, but our main transit motorways (A3, A1 Zagreb-Bosiljevo, A6, A4) have high traffic volumes, especially during weekends and during summer, and the asphalt is being replaced one lane at a time, usually during April and May, so the whole section between 2 exits could usually be done in a period of few days.


----------



## rakcancer

Poland is not going to be one big construction site again. We are NOT building exclusively concrete motorways. There is no need for that. Concrete pavement is used only in areas of high volume transit of heavy trucks like it is going to be on A1 between S8 and A2....


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## mcarling

Also, when the A1 section between the A2 and S8 will need to be reconstructed, it will be done one carriageway at a time. The carriageway not under construction will be amply wide enough to accommodate 2x2 traffic with reasonable lane widths and a separation barrier of linked concrete dividers.


----------



## Kanadzie

mcarling said:


> Also, when the A1 section between the A2 and S8 will need to be reconstructed, it will be done one carriageway at a time. The carriageway not under construction will be amply wide enough to accommodate 2x2 traffic* with reasonable lane widths* and a separation barrier of linked concrete dividers.


No German-style "fold in your mirrors" 2.0 m left lane? :lol:

In Canada Quebec typically does this on rural motorways despite them being almost always asphalt
Usually they will pave a bit extra asphalt if the motorway has too small shoulders so that it can handle normal traffic of 2x2 and a temporary concrete barrier. Usually speed limit is reduced from 100 km/h to 80 or 70. It works well.

In Ontario they do the piece-meal where they close half the carriageway and either give only 1 lane or 2 lanes squeezed too tight on the side. This sucks compared to the Quebec style.


----------



## PiotrG

Lane width on "S" category is 3,5m. On "A" - 3,75m


rakcancer said:


> Poland is not going to be one big construction site again. We are NOT building exclusively concrete motorways. There is no need for that. Concrete pavement is used only in areas of high volume transit of heavy trucks like it is going to be on A1 between S8 and A2....


It's not true. Nearly half of new "S" and "A" ways going under construction from now will be concrete. And it is political decision. And years 2017-2019 will be pretty heavy construction seasons.


----------



## mcarling

Kanadzie said:


> No German-style "fold in your mirrors" 2.0 m left lane?


Probably 3.0 meters for each of the four lanes.


----------



## Irfan Aliu

:cheers:


----------



## rakcancer

PiotrG said:


> Lane width on "S" category is 3,5m. On "A" - 3,75m
> 
> It's not true. Nearly half of new "S" and "A" ways going under construction from now will be concrete. And it is political decision. And years 2017-2019 will be pretty heavy construction seasons.


What are you talking about?
S7 - asphalt,
S8 Warszawa-Bialystok - asphalt
S5 -asphalt
S3 - asphalt
A4- most in asphalt
A1- almost all in asphalt
A2- 2/3 in asphalt
A8 - asphalt 
S6- is going to be asphalt
A6 - converted to asphalt
S2-asphalt
S1-asphalt
S51-going to be asphalt
S61 - going to be asphalt
S22- converted to asphalt
S17 - asphalt so far and I think the rest to be so...
S11 - so far asphalt and the rest is going to be so...
etc,etc...
please check facts before giving political opinion here.


----------



## PiotrG




----------



## SRC_100

^^
In your opinion this is _half_ ?


----------



## rakcancer

PiotrG said:


>


Could you let us know your sources please?


----------



## PiotrG

SRC_100 said:


> ^^
> In your opinion this is _half_ ?


In 2014-2020 road building program perspective yes.

Source? http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=240
And it is confirmed since October/November 2014, many tenders like S17, S2, S8, S7 were delayed due to switch from asphalt to concrete.


----------



## rakcancer

PiotrG said:


> In 2014-2020 road building program perspective yes.
> 
> Source? http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=240
> .


Let me ask you again WHERE EXACTLY you got that information from? Please don't give me link to general thread about polish roads.


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## PiotrG

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=118660815&postcount=885
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=119814126&postcount=914
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=119958063&postcount=917
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=118420161&postcount=880
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=119719770&postcount=908
http://www.nbi.com.pl/assets/NBI-pdf/2015/2_59_2015/pdf/11_Drogi_technologie_betonowej.pdf
http://swiatbetonu.pl/aktualnosci/odcinki-drog-proponowane-do-realizacji-w-technologii-betonowej/


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## JanVL

A newer map:

Green - existing
Red - Under construction
Blue - Tendered 
Light blue - Tender to be announced soon










http://forsal.pl/galerie/870854,duz...akie-trasy-powstana-w-najblizszym-czasie.html


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## PiotrG

And it's incomplete of course...


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## rakcancer

PiotrG said:


> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=118660815&postcount=885
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=119814126&postcount=914
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=119958063&postcount=917
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=118420161&postcount=880
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=119719770&postcount=908
> http://www.nbi.com.pl/assets/NBI-pdf/2015/2_59_2015/pdf/11_Drogi_technologie_betonowej.pdf
> http://swiatbetonu.pl/aktualnosci/odcinki-drog-proponowane-do-realizacji-w-technologii-betonowej/


So.... mr Piotr, it is as I thought. This http://swiatbetonu.pl/aktualnosci/odcinki-drog-proponowane-do-realizacji-w-technologii-betonowej/ is only proposal, not final decision. Yes, they may be more concrete motorways especially in the areas of heavy traffic which is very good in my opinion but this is going to be much less than you said.... So, no worries for those who are afraid of making in Poland concrete only roads.


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## PiotrG

It final decision. That is already in life going on. If you read polish forum then you should know that. But you can think what you want, everything will be clear with first concrete on construction site.


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## JanVL

*Road safety statistics for April 2015*

*April*

*Number of road accidents*

- 2015: 2.464
- 2014: 2.646
- 2013: 2.277


*Road fatalities*

- 2015: 211
- 2014: 221
- 2013: 186


*Number of wounded*

- 2015: 2.969
- 2014: 3.228
- 2013: 2.758

*January-April*

*Number of road accidents*

- 2015: 9.227
- 2014: 9.463
- 2013: 8.503


*Road fatalities*

- 2015: 846
- 2014: 856
- 2013: 761


*Number of wounded*

- 2015: 11.064
- 2014: 11.501
- 2013: 10.475

http://statystyka.policja.pl/st/ruc...wo-w-ruchu-drogowym-w-ujeciu-miesiecznym.html


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## rakcancer

PiotrG said:


> It final decision. That is already in life going on. If you read polish forum then you should know that. But you can think what you want, everything will be clear with first concrete on construction site.


I think this is my last response to you because I see no point of continuation of this.
I would like to have discussion supported by facts not by forum chats. You have submitted that link yourself and it states clearly that it is proposal ONLY. How would you translate these words to English?: ...Odcinki dróg proponowane do realizacji w technologii betonowej w ramach Programu Budowy Dróg Krajowych na lata 2014-2020 (propozycja z 16 października 2014 r.):...


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## JanVL

*Warsaw*










By morris71


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## Chris80678

Warsaw's skyline - ever changing :cheers:


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## Kemo

First vertical signage on S8 Raszyn bypass.
Unfortunately Kudowa-Słone and Chyżne are still present hno:



kermitdefrog said:


>


Rumour has it that this section will be opened on 1st July. But I wonder how will they arrange traffic on the Janki Małe interchange, which is unlikely to be completed by this date.


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## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> First vertical signage on S8 Raszyn bypass.
> Unfortunately Kudowa-Słone and Chyżne are still present hno:
> 
> Naturally :lol: Janki is there too when perhaps it should not be (it may be there just because people know that Janki is where DK7 and DK8 meet/split?)
> 
> Rumour has it that this section will be opened on 1st July. But I wonder how will they arrange traffic on the Janki Małe interchange, which is unlikely to be completed by this date.


 Good question


----------



## strandeed

Concrete is far superior to asphalt IMO, modern concretes and surface treatments have negated many of the legacy disadvantages.

Vehicles can also expect superior fuel economy while running on concrete.

http://www.brighthubengineering.com/concrete-technology/45858-concrete-roads-vs-asphalt-roads/

They also look better IMO


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## Eulanthe

Ugh, Kudowa-Słone and Chyżne are still there on new signs?

If they really had to put something, why not at least Kudowa-Zdrój?!

I'd love to see Praga and Budapeszt on those signs, but dream on...


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## Luki_SL

^^There is rule that the last city/village on the road should be shown on the sign.


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## Eulanthe

Luki_SL said:


> ^^There is rule that the last city/village on the road should be shown on the sign.


Wasn't it finally dropped?

I thought it wasn't actually the name of the last village, but rather the name of the border crossing. Hence Kudowa-Słone, as ul. Słone is the name of the road closest to the crossing.


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## Kemo

Eulanthe said:


> Wasn't it finally dropped?


It was, but only on DK8 near Suwałki and A1 Toruń-Kowal.


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## Luki_SL

A1 Stryków-Tuszyn construction, Tuszyn Interchange, aerial video :



michalzbrzezin said:


> Są fragmenty z układania betonu nawierzchniowego.


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## Kemo

DK88 in Gliwice - interchanges with DTŚ and future western bypass.

(photo by Krzysztof Krzemiński http://gliwice.naszemiasto.pl/artyk...-gotowy-zdjecia-z,3388150,artgal,t,id,tm.html)









Tunnel in city center:


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## Luki_SL

A1 Stryków-Tuszyn construction, aerial photos :



karol.ldz said:


> 2.
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http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1539539


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## rakcancer

*S19*
Permit to build 6,3 km of S19 near Rzeszow has been issued.
GDDKiA is now obligated to give within next 21 days an access to future construction site to the contractors _Eurovia_ and _Warbud SA_. 
Contract is worth 342 mln PLN and the deadline is in 34 months.
Source: http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/18696/Jest-ZRID-na-S19-Swilcza-Rzeszow-Poludnie


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## rakcancer

*S7*
Winner of tender of 24,6km of S7 - western bypass of Radom was announced on May 13th. _Dragados_ company has 30 months to design and build this section of S7.
Price tag: 729,4 mln PLN
Source: http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/18631/Znamy-wykonawce-obwodnicy-Radomia


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## mcarling

rakcancer said:


> *S7*
> Winner of 24,6km of S7 - western bypass of Radom was announced on May 13th.


Wow! Finally! The DK7 through Radom has been a terrible bottleneck for years, often adding 30 minutes or more to a Warsaw - Krakow journey.


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## Strzala

S19 Lublin West Bypass (ZOL):



> PZ-8
> 
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> http://www.s19zol.pl/index.php/2-uncategorised/27-zdjecia-maj-2015


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## SRC_100

mcarling said:


> Yes, but we're still a few years away from setting priorities for the 2021-2027 funding cycle. Also, if Poland and the Czech Republic were to agree to mutually support an S8 extension to Klodzko and construction of the R43 from Brno to Svitavy, they would line up support from AT, SK, and HU before going to the EU to champion the idea. It's all very political.


Basically I agree, but how to urge Czech side to this project? They have many other priorities. I do not expect the czech government or/and road authorities would be interested in to participate in the project, even when EU is going to refund 85% of the investment.


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## mcarling

SRC_100 said:


> Basically I agree, but how to urge Czech side to this project? They have many other priorities. I do not expect the czech government or/and road authorities would be interested in to participate in the project, even when EU is going to refund 85% of the investment.


Even if the Czech government is not ready to build the R43, they most likely would support EU funding of an S8 extension to Klodzko. Doing so would help to ensure EU funding for the R43 in a later funding cycle.


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## SRC_100

^^
Maybe, such approach to the problem makes sense...


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## Strzala

S19 Lublin West bypass:


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## Luki_SL

A1 motorway, section Stryków-Tuszyn, aerial photos :
Part 1.


karol.ldz said:


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## Luki_SL

A1 motorway, section Stryków-Tuszyn, aerial photos :
Part 2.



karol.ldz said:


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## Luki_SL

The S69 expressway construction, section Rybarzowice - Żywiec Soła, aerial photos :
Part 1.



PanTom said:


> ES 09 kierunek Żywiec
> 
> 
> ES 09 kierunek Bielsko-Biała
> 
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> ES 09 kirunek Żywiec
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> ES 09 kierunek Bielsko-Biała
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> Węzeł Łodygowice kierunek Bielsko-Biała
> 
> Węzeł Łodygowice kierunek Bielsko-Biała
> 
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> Węzeł Łodygowice kierunek Żywiec
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> Węzeł Łodygowice
> 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/AeroFotoBeskid
> CDN...


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## Luki_SL

Part 2.



PanTom said:


> WD 16 Kierunek Żywiec
> 
> 
> WD 16 Kierunek Bielsko-Biała
> 
> 
> WD 16 Kierunek Bielsko-Biała
> 
> 
> WD 16 Kierunek Żywiec
> 
> 
> 
> WD 19 Kierunek Żywiec
> 
> 
> 
> WD 19 Kierunek Żywiec
> 
> 
> WD 19 Kierunek Bielsko-Biała
> 
> 
> 
> Węzeł Żywiec Soła kierunek Węgierska Górka
> 
> 
> Węzeł Żywiec Soła
> 
> 
> Węzeł Żywiec Soła Zjazd do Żywca
> 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/AeroFotoBeskid
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/AeroFotoBeskid


----------



## Strzala

Another shots from S19 Lublin West bypass:



Toye said:


> Kolejne 3 zdjęcia od nadzoru :
> 
> 1.Okolice obiektu WD-5 z lotu ptaka
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2.Początek trasy głównej z lotu ptaka
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3.Okolice obiektu WS-1 z lotu ptaka
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oraz nowy film:
> 
> Trasa główna z lotu ptaka
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zródło :http://www.s19zol.pl/index.php/galeria


----------



## Eulanthe

Historical question - does anyone know if the A2 Września-Konin was tolled from opening in the 80's?

I've found a reference on Wikipedia to it being tolled, but I'm not sure if it's true.


----------



## SRC_100

^^
Not true. First tolled motorway ever in PL is A4 b/w Katowice & Kraków since 3rd April 2000.


----------



## Rusonaldo

Expressway S3 - Międzyrzecz bypass.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

S3: (Gorzów Wlkp.) Małyszyn - (Szczecin) Klucz (4x)


----------



## kurz.L

Rusonaldo said:


> Expressway S3 - Międzyrzecz bypass.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td8NWp-kjOk





Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> S3: (Gorzów Wlkp.) Małyszyn - (Szczecin) Klucz (4x)
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noy-WN6FUg0


It must be a real pleasure for the driver to take on those stretches (from driving & visual perspective). Is that the gradual end of noise wall madness in PL?


----------



## Chris80678

I think the S69 between Bielsko Biala and Zywiec will be Poland's prettiest and most scenic new expressway to open this year. The mountainous scenery around the expressway is really beautiful :cheers:


----------



## mcarling

Chris80678 said:


> I think the S69 between Bielsko Biala and Zywiec will be Poland's prettiest and most scenic new expressway to open this year. The mountainous scenery around the expressway is really beautiful :cheers:


It might also be the next to open. I drove past both yesterday and the new S69 section seems more nearly ready than the new S8 section.


----------



## Chris80678

mcarling said:


> It might also be the next to open. I drove past both yesterday and the new S69 section seems more nearly ready than the new S8 section.


22nd July is the date being bandied about on the Polish forum for a possible opening date for S69, with a week later for the S8 opening????
Although the S8 doesn't go through as pretty scenery!!!!


----------



## mcarling

Chris80678 said:


> 22nd July is the date being bandied about on the Polish forum for a possible opening date for S69, with a week later for the S8 opening????


Various dates (mostly in July) have been hypothesized in the Polish language forum for the opening of the new S8 section. It seems no one knows because no decision has been made yet.


----------



## Chris80678

That new S8 section is badly needed for opening :nuts: but I guess a few more weeks to wait won't make a difference


----------



## Strzala

delete


----------



## Strzala

*S7 Kraków East bypass:*







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsA1sQJVakI


----------



## rakcancer

Nice shot of south section of S8 in Warsaw under construction:



kafarek said:


> S by Robert Frw, on Flickr


----------



## ABArch

^^
What is beautiful in this photo?
Are these bouncing screens?


----------



## Luki_SL

^^Yes, it`s sound barriers


----------



## UPR20

Maybe the Sodium lighting seem beautiful to some (why on earth they do not go for LED lighting for expensive schemes like this one?)


----------



## panthiocodin

Or maybe growing city in the background? Who knows?


----------



## makaveli6

I'm writing wiki articles in Latvian about roads in Poland. What's up with the S91 Swiecie by-pass? S91 isn't mentioned anywhere, except for one post in SSC three years ago. Some information on it would be appreciated.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The number 'S91' pops up in Google Earth labeling as well (laid over the S5 bypass).

As far as I know there is no such thing as 'S91'.


----------



## makaveli6

It's also signed on the road, here. :?


----------



## ABArch

makaveli6 said:


> I'm writing wiki articles in Latvian about roads in Poland. What's up with the S91 Swiecie by-pass? S91 isn't mentioned anywhere, except for one post in SSC three years ago. Some information on it would be appreciated.


It would be logical the express connection from Grudziadz through Olsztyn to Elk.
This is expressway S16, which is partly built from Olsztyn to Mragowo.
The construction of the entire road is possible after 2022


----------



## Luki_SL

makaveli6 said:


> It's also signed on the road, here. :?


It`s _temporary_ sign, till the S5-A1 section will be build


----------



## LMB

ChrisZwolle said:


> The number 'S91' pops up in Google Earth labeling as well (laid over the S5 bypass).
> 
> As far as I know there is no such thing as 'S91'.


Google has coped entire database of OpenStreetMap.org and blindly implemented it as a layer. I cannot speak highly of its data contents.


----------



## Eulanthe

Luki_SL said:


> It`s _temporary_ sign, till the S5-A1 section will be build


So - does the S91 actually exist or not?


----------



## makaveli6

Looks like the S91 is _de facto_ S5, though I don't understand why they didn't number it as S5 from the start.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The DK9x numbers in Poland are introduced after an old 1-digit national road gets replaced by an autostrada. For instance, DK1 is now A1, so the old route is renumbered DK91. 

As the Świecie bypass was also numbered DK1 in the past, it is now DK91, and thereby, S91 because it is a droga ekspresowa.

S91 is not a standalone route though.


----------



## JanVL

*Road safety statistics for June 2015*

*June*

*Number of road accidents*

- 2015: 2.950
- 2014: 3.229
- 2013: 3.308


*Road fatalities*

- 2015: 207
- 2014: 264
- 2013: 267


*Number of wounded*

- 2015: 3.608
- 2014: 3.949
- 2013: 4.110

*January-June*

*Number of road accidents*

- 2015: 14.912
- 2014: 15.812
- 2013: 14.931


*Road fatalities*

- 2015: 1.259
- 2014: 1.384
- 2013: 1.331


*Number of wounded*

- 2015: 18.040
- 2014: 19.274
- 2013: 18.433

http://statystyka.policja.pl/st/ruc...wo-w-ruchu-drogowym-w-ujeciu-miesiecznym.html


----------



## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> The DK9x numbers in Poland are introduced after an old 1-digit national road gets replaced by an autostrada. For instance, DK1 is now A1, so the old route is renumbered DK91.
> 
> As the Świecie bypass was also numbered DK1 in the past, it is now DK91, and thereby, S91 because it is a droga ekspresowa.
> 
> S91 is not a standalone route though.


Near Katowice, where parts of the old DK1 was upgraded to an expressway, it is numbered S1, despite being more or less parallel to the A1.


----------



## makaveli6

The whole 9x thing in Poland is a complete mess, at least for now.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*S3: Miękowo - Rzęśnica*


----------



## ChrisZwolle

makaveli6 said:


> The whole 9x thing in Poland is a complete mess, at least for now.


They recently added some spurs like DK95, 96 & 97. I don't really see the added value of that.


----------



## makaveli6

ChrisZwolle said:


> They recently added some spurs like DK95, 96 & 97. I don't really see the added value of that.


Road's connecting DK routes with S or A roads are obliged to have DK statuses too. This and the other parallel 9x routes like 91 and 93 make a huge mess. They should of just numbered the new spurs with bigger numbers, f.e. DK95 becomes DK115 etc.

I never actually understood the point of renumbering the main DK rotues to 9x, I don't see any problem's with A1, S1 and DK1 co-existing.


----------



## Eulanthe

ChrisZwolle said:


> The DK9x numbers in Poland are introduced after an old 1-digit national road gets replaced by an autostrada. For instance, DK1 is now A1, so the old route is renumbered DK91.
> 
> As the Świecie bypass was also numbered DK1 in the past, it is now DK91, and thereby, S91 because it is a droga ekspresowa.
> 
> S91 is not a standalone route though.


Aha, so it actually makes perfect sense. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the S91 only at that point, rather than S5/S91?

More to the point, why did the DK1 run that way anyway?

Renumbering the old DK routes does make sense in one way - if people see DK1, they might think "Hmm, this is a viable alternative" - but DK91 strongly suggests that you should take the motorway.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

*A6/S3: Rzęsnica - (Szczecin) Klucz*


----------



## SRC_100

makaveli6 said:


> They should of just numbered the new spurs with bigger numbers, f.e. DK95 becomes DK115 etc.


Three digits number roads can`t be national roads (DK, A, S) but only voivodeship roads (DW). The rules are that national roads (DK, S, A) are be able to have only one or two digits number.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ true but the numbering system has become totally inflexible

Unless they start doing renumbering stringing random streets together...
But honestly there are perhaps too many DK roads... so many can be downloaded to DW jurisdiction (unless the voivode doesn't want to pay??)


----------



## Strzala

Poligonowa street in Lublin - new northern access to S12/S17/S19 Lublin bypass:



gargus said:


> filmik z dzisiejszego przelotu nad Poligonową


----------



## Strzala

Visualization of S19 Lublin West bypass:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A lot of offers on motorway construction tenders were published recently.

I noticed how practically all offers are below budget, even 30 - 40% lower than the government estimate is no exception. What is the reason behind this? Are they conservative with their project estimates? Are they now able to fund much more projects? A saving of € 10+ million, _per contract_, occurs at some projects. That means they must have savings in the billions of złotych by now.


----------



## toonczyk

^^ There are a few factors in play here. GDDKiA uses estimates calculated by companies doing early concepts and feasibility studies for investments. Those estimates are based on historical records, current and forecasted market prices, which can obviously be very variable, so the estimates are very conservative. But I think two biggest reasons for such discrepancies (compared to tenders in many other countries) I think are as follows:
1) fierce competition - there are companies from all over the world fighting for those contracts, so the profit margins are very low;
2) most of new GDDKiA contracts are "optimize and build" type, which basically means that the contrator is allowed to modify the design to find savings, as long as all minimal requirements are met.


----------



## Surel

Aside from the free hand that the companies get to find savings in the designs I would say that the transparency, well forged contracts and open competition is what drives the prices down.

Any kind of procedures that hinder competition and transparency will allways increase the prices. It is that simple.


----------



## ufonut

S8 in Warsaw (Salomea-Wolica) will be opened soon.

By Teokryt 









By bacique


----------



## John Maynard

JanVL said:


> *June*
> 
> *Number of road accidents*
> 
> - 2015: 2.950
> - 2014: 3.229
> - 2013: 3.308
> 
> 
> *Road fatalities*
> 
> - 2015: 207
> - 2014: 264
> - 2013: 267
> 
> 
> *Number of wounded*
> 
> - 2015: 3.608
> - 2014: 3.949
> - 2013: 4.110
> 
> *January-June*
> 
> *Number of road accidents*
> 
> - 2015: 14.912
> - 2014: 15.812
> - 2013: 14.931
> 
> 
> *Road fatalities*
> 
> - 2015: 1.259
> - 2014: 1.384
> - 2013: 1.331
> 
> 
> *Number of wounded*
> 
> - 2015: 18.040
> - 2014: 19.274
> - 2013: 18.433
> 
> http://statystyka.policja.pl/st/ruc...wo-w-ruchu-drogowym-w-ujeciu-miesiecznym.html


Well, despite of better roads and increasing number of motorways/expressways the amount of road fatalities and wounded haven't decreased at all :bash:! It even stepped up in 2014, why?

Without a serious and comprehensive road safety program and real punishment for crazy, irresponsible roadhogs. Since those "criminals" won't get this status lawfully fixed to them; and not as it is actually, get away by just paying a very little fine and/or have a short licence withdrawal for driving 50+ km/h over the speed limit (only introduced since 18th May this year, yes!), passing with impunity at 150+ km/h in front of schools, it won't go any better in the future.


----------



## Capt.Vimes

John Maynard said:


> Well, despite of better roads and increasing number of motorways/expressways the amount of road fatalities and wounded haven't decreased at all :bash:! It even stepped up in 2014, why?


I am looking at Bulgarian statistics, and we have an increase on road fatalities in 2014 as well,despite of the expansion of the motorway network, thus eliminating heavy traffic from some of the roads that had most accidents. In the years before 2014 fatalities were going down. This year so far there is an increase in accidents and fatalities. The reason, I believe, is that the economy is growing and with it traffic on the roads, cheaper oil also contributes. Last time I drove from Sofia to Varna, I couldn't believe my eyes what I was seeing. I expected more traffic from tourists, but the road was full of trucks and vans. I drive a few times per year to Sofia and I've never seen anything like that. The situation in Poland is probably similar - growing economy, cheaper oil, so more cars, doing more kilometers on the roads. Which lead to more accidents. Without the new motorways and expressways, this increase could be even bigger.


----------



## JanVL

It's also not only a matter of expanding the road system, but also ameliorating the roads we have. There is a lot of work to be done there as well.

On the other hand fatalities are already down 125 people in the first half of the year. That is almost 10% compared to last year, which is not a small decrease. The sharp decrease has come this month after new laws were introduced. We'll see if the trend continues. If it does, we could have the lowest number of road fatalities ever in 2015.


----------



## UPR20

S8 south western exit from Warsaw is now officially open.


----------



## Chris80678

UPR20 said:


> S8 south western exit from Warsaw is now officially open.


Raszyn can finally breathe - no more traffic jams there :cheers: and a nicer place for it's residents


----------



## UPR20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WwbCaoDPGQ

A short video of the moment of the opening


----------



## Chris80678

UPR20 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WwbCaoDPGQ
> 
> A short video of the moment of the opening


Is the Warsaw-bound lane not open for traffic? It is empty :lol:


----------



## UPR20

It opened a few moments later, these are the very first cars traveling southbound on the road.


----------



## Sponsor

Update by @Hetaman

Total lenght of A- and S-roads in Poland - 3089,2 km (including 194 km of single carriageway S-roads)


----------



## bewu1

Possible explanations for such low costs are as follows:
1) relatively flat place;
2) no need for ground replacement (what it rather norm in Poland);
3) close source of some materials needed for road construction.


----------



## Luki_SL

Zabrze, A4 motorway towards Katowice, late afternoon :


----------



## JanVL

*Road safety statistics for July 2015*

*July*

*Number of road accidents*

- 2015: 2.997
- 2014: 3.328
- 2013: 3.564


*Road fatalities*

- 2015: 265
- 2014: 270
- 2013: 284


*Number of wounded*

- 2015: 3.796
- 2014: 4.199
- 2013: 4.426

*January-July*

*Number of road accidents*

- 2015: 17.881
- 2014: 19.197
- 2013: 18.567


*Road fatalities*

- 2015: 1.537
- 2014: 1.663
- 2013: 1.624


*Number of wounded*

- 2015: 21.858
- 2014: 23.535
- 2013: 22.933

http://statystyka.policja.pl/st/ruc...wo-w-ruchu-drogowym-w-ujeciu-miesiecznym.html


----------



## Maciek_CK

*A4 Wrocław - Opole*

A4 has just been renovated between „Brzeg” and „Opole West” interchanges. The 30km stretch is a part of the motorway’s refurbishment in Opole Voivodeship that is scheduled to end in 2019.










sauce: GDDKiA


----------



## rakcancer

^^^ Didn't they wide shoulders during renovation? Looks like it is very narrow.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^It`s the extra (enter) lane, the wide shoulders are still 2,75m.


----------



## Luki_SL

S7 expressway construction, section Orońsko- Mazowieckie voivodeship border. Aerial photos



Kazusik said:


> _MD-3 - w kierunku Kielc_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _WD-6 (w dali) - w kierunku Kielc_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Pomiędzy WD-10 (w.Szydłowiec płn.) a WD-10a - w kierunku Kielc_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _KP-19 - w kierunku Kielc_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _PZ-20 - w kierunku Kielc_


http://s7radom-granica.pl/galeria/wybrana/id_kat/189


----------



## Luki_SL

Visualization of S17 expressway Garwolin-mazowieckie voivodeship border. There is a tendner for construction in progress for this section.



Legvan said:


> Wizualizacja S17 na odcinku Garwolin - granica województw mazowieckiego i lubelskiego.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mam nadzieję że nie było


----------



## Ni3lS

Cool pic of the Redzinski bridge I came across.. 

Golden Gate by Maciek Lulko, on Flickr


----------



## geogregor

Some of my photos from driving along recently opened S69 south of Bielsko-Biala as well as along the older bypass of that town:

DSC00178resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00179resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00180resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00186resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00187resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00189resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00191resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00193resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## geogregor

More of S69

DSC00194resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00196resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00199resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00202resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00203resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Approaching Bielsko-Biala bypass

DSC00204resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00205resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00208resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## geogregor

Here it is technically not an S-road anymore, at least for few hundred meters, due to this sharp curve

DSC00210resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00211resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr

One day S1 will continue north from here

DSC00212resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00214resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00215resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00217resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr

That's it for today.


----------



## geogregor

Few shots from my local stretch of A1.

Entering in Mszana:

DSC00220resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Infamous bridge still standing 

DSC00221resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00223resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00224resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00225resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00226resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00227resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00229resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## geogregor

DSC00230resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr

With wide median in the forest it could be somewhere in the US

DSC00232resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00231resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00233resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00234resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Going to services in Rowien

DSC00235resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00236resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Back on the mainline, from here 3 lanes in each direction:

DSC00237resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr
More photos in the evening


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ *could be in US, except:

1 - pavement quality is too good (who would ever have thought 10 years ago )
2 - sound barriers :lol:


----------



## geogregor

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ *could be in US, except:
> 
> 1 - pavement quality is too good (who would ever have thought 10 years ago )
> 2 - sound barriers :lol:


Yes, those pesky sound barriers 

And pavement on this stretch is better and worse. Funnily enough the oldest stretches have the best surface. North of the A4 surface is quite bad in places. 

Anyway, let's continue

DSC00239resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00240resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00241resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr

This lighter tarmac has the best surface. It is one of the first open stretches of the A1 in Silesia region:

DSC00242resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00243resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00244resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr

We'll be taking DW902 to Katowice

DSC00245resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00246resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00248resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00249resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## macieii

Sometimes I don't believe how much the driving in Poland has changed over the last years... with this stretch of A1 being one of the top examples... 

We'll soon see the times when we'll have a CHOICE - when going from point A to point B we'll be able to choose between TWO different highways...


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ and good highways !
Polish people always say how PL is terrible and getting worse (but... Polonia people say the same thing of wherever they stay also :lol: ) but at least for some things, there are improvements


----------



## geogregor

macieii said:


> Sometimes I don't believe how much the driving in Poland has changed over the last years... with this stretch of A1 being one of the top examples...


Yes. I moved to the UK over 10 years ago. Back then when I wanted to go to Pyrzowice airport I had to navigate numerous of congested and slow highways. Even if some those roads, often dual carriageways (like DK81 or 86), were one of the best in Poland at the time it still took me more than twice the time I need now.
I was following construction of the A1 closely and every time a new stretch opened I was smiling. Nowadays journey to the airport is a breeze. From Jastrzebie to Pyrzowice easy drive of 45-50min, max an hour. Safe, well designed, not congested, great road. Reminds me how impressed I was with western motorways when I was hitch-hiking around Europe when I was at university.

However there are a few issues with the pavement in the northern parts of this road. From what I heard it is due to difficult geology. Let's hope the ground movements stabilize in the next few years and it will be possible to fix the tarmac.

Now time for some shots from DW902 (DTS) between A1 and Katowice

DSC00250resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr

This stretch have problems with the embankment subsidence 

DSC00251resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Apparently it is due to the materials used during construction of the embankment. Some of it changes volume over time. For now they are waiting for the process to stop so they can fix the surface. For now they just removed the biggest "hills"

DSC00252resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00253resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00254resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00255resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00256resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Recently opened services:

DSC00257resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00258resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr

Hot days in Poland 

DSC00259resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC00260resized by Geogregor*, on Flickr


----------



## Strzala

Luki_SL said:


> Visualization of S17 expressway Garwolin-mazowieckie voivodeship border. There is a tendner for construction in progress for this section.


Aerial version:


----------



## Eulanthe

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ I don't think either party will drastically change direction in regard of highway construction. There's too much prestige at stake and there seems to be little if any opposition to the motorway plan of Poland.


No, actually, I'd say that the current opposition is a huge threat to some of the plans. They will absolutely not put any money towards the S6 (as the belt running from Szczecin to Gdansk is very heavily pro-government) and the S10 (likewise), and other projects such as the western bypass of Łódź might also be scrapped. I'd bet on them building projects such as Rzeszów-Lublin instead - simply to reward their voters.

The huge question that no-one is mentioning is what the plans are for the motorway and expressway network in terms of tolling. The current government cannot announce any plans now, but I would bet good money on the opposition announcing that road tolls are to be scrapped while slyly sticking 10 Euro cent on every litre of fuel. The problem with them is that they have a lot of unfunded promises - and with fuel taxes being as low as possible (at least for diesel) - it's an obvious target. 



> The biggest threat may be the European Union, which plans to spend way too much money on rail projects compared to motorways.


It's not all a bad thing - PKP Intercity has seen a huge increase in numbers, and the EU looks like it will help to deliver a reasonable network here. Certainly, the new train stations are mostly very, very attractive places.

On the Polish SSC, they seem to believe the same thing - that the opposition will route all the available money into the east. It would seem to be absolutely vital right now for the Wielkopolska branch of the GDDKiA to get the entire S5 tendered before the elections - otherwise we might end up with some stupid gap for years to come, which will only get worse as the rest of the S5 encourages more and more traffic on the Poznań-Wrocław route.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ The recently released motorway plan (by the current government) included pretty much all planned motorways in the east, even those which are not really a priority (such as S12 & S17 to the Ukrainian border, S19 south of Białystok and S74). 



Eulanthe said:


> It's not all a bad thing - PKP Intercity has seen a huge increase in numbers, and the EU looks like it will help to deliver a reasonable network here. Certainly, the new train stations are mostly very, very attractive places.


What you'll see is a very imbalanced spending, such as 50-60% of budget on 5-10% of modal share. This even happens in the United States. It's not to say that they shouldn't spend any money on rail projects at all, but you'll get a much bigger bang out of every złoty if it is spent where it is most useful.


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## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> I don't think either party will drastically change direction in regard of highway construction.


Depending on the election results, there could be very different levels of competency, corruption, and rewarding/punishment of constituencies. I just hope that as many contracts as possible will be signed before massive corruption sets in. Road building in Poland could easily become like road building in CZ depending on the election results. Until the election is over, plans for the 2020s have limited predictive value.


----------



## Kanadzie

Eulanthe said:


> No, actually, I'd say that the current opposition is a huge threat to some of the plans. They will absolutely not put any money towards the S6 (as the belt running from Szczecin to Gdansk is very heavily pro-government) and the S10 (likewise), and other projects such as the western bypass of Łódź might also be scrapped. I'd bet on them building projects such as Rzeszów-Lublin instead - simply to reward their voters.


Would this be particularly bad? My impression (but only that) would be S6 is relatively low need and Rzeszow-Lublin to be if anything more needed, that road _sucks _and an extra A4 connection would be nice...


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## rakcancer

mcarling said:


> I just hope that as many contracts as possible will be signed before massive corruption sets in.


What kind of corruption are you talking about? Do you know anything we don't know? Maybe that is a problem in Czech Republic. I don't see that on massive scale in Poland. If anything changes because other party (PiS) wins which is not obvious at all then priorities could shift to the east like finishing whole S19 for example.


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## rakcancer

Kanadzie said:


> My impression (but only that) would be S6 is relatively low need and Rzeszow-Lublin to be if anything more needed, that road _sucks _and an extra A4 connection would be nice...


I would say neither whole S6 is nor whole S19 is urgently needed. S19 only between Rzeszow and Lublin makes sense and S6 between Gdansk and Slupsk. The rest of S6 and then the rest of S19 is definitely lesser priority at the present.


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## dexter2

ChrisZwolle said:


> The biggest threat may be the European Union, which plans to spend way too much money on rail projects compared to motorways.


Threat?

Right now state of infrastructure in Poland is shifting - roads are getting pretty good, train connections are awful. 
From what i remember Berlins S-Bahn had more than twice as much clients as whole polish railways combined. And that is mostly thanks to awful shape of rail infrastructure as well as rapid need for new connections, especially in eastern Poland (former russian part).

This 2014-2022 plan is bad. Too much moneyz for roads, not enough for rails.


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## Luki_SL

^^>>>  Poland - raliways


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## mcarling

rakcancer said:


> What kind of corruption are you talking about? Do you know anything we don't know? Maybe that is a problem in Czech Republic. I don't see that on massive scale in Poland.


That's because some parties are mostly corrupt and some are mostly not corrupt. I don't want this to turn into a political discussion, so I won't go any further down that road. The point is that one of the things at stake in the election is that road construction can continue to be relatively clean, fast, and efficient -- or not. The voters will decide.


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## mdhookey

What was Law and Justice's infrastructure policy when they were in power before? Not meant to be a political question, but just was curious of their record.


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## Eulanthe

mdhookey said:


> What was Law and Justice's infrastructure policy when they were in power before? Not meant to be a political question, but just was curious of their record.


The problem is that they've swung massively to the left since then, and the hatred among their electorate for the type of people that actually use motorways and expressways is ridiculous. They're now in some sort of formal alliance with the worst (and biggest?) trade union - which means that they will pour money into pork barrel projects instead of focusing on the bigger picture.

Essentially, what mccarling is trying to say is that the Law and Justice party is known for nepotism and local corruption. The President, only a few days ago, was found out to have used public money to fly to Poznań and stay in hotels while on "parliamentary business". His home constituency is in Kraków, and he had no reason to be here 11 times within a couple of years. He claimed to be visiting the local boss of Law and Justice, but... just so coincidentally, he was actually teaching at a private university on those weekends. He's denied it, but the evidence is all there, including his yearly financial declarations. 

What they will do (and this is exactly what happened last time) is replace all the competent managers with loyal party people. So the GDDKiA for instance can expect to have the national management and regional management replaced with their friends - not chosen fairly, but chosen because of who they are. It's part of their so called "TKM" or "Teraz k***a My*" philosophy - which translates roughly as "Now it's our f*****g turn". 

This is why it's absolutely vital for the GDDKiA to sign as many contracts as possible before the election. If the contracts are signed, the roads will get built.


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## geogregor

At the moment it is really hard to judge what will really happen. And this is the biggest reason why I'm careful with any plans going longer than next 3-4 years.

If contracts are not signed everything might happen. We might be positively surprised and transition will be fairly smooth but I'm betting for big changes in the top GDDKiA management. Both, in the main headquarters, and in the regions. A lot will depend on those new appointments.
We can well go the Czech way with construction and tendering painfully slow and management changes pretty much every year.
It doesn't have to be that bad but it well might. Will see.

Also, it is worth remembering about the elephant in the room which is the awful shape of the coal mining industry. At the moment government is trying to bully energy companies to bailout the virtually bankrupt coal mining. They resist. Law and Justice is big friend of the coal mining unions. I can see a lot of money being thrown into that drain (as well as some other throwaways for the public) with less for crucial infrastructure spending. 

We will have to wait and see. And keep fingers crossed for signing as many contracts as possible in the next month or two.


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## Kemo

mdhookey said:


> What was Law and Justice's infrastructure policy when they were in power before? Not meant to be a political question, but just was curious of their record.


Have you heard about the Rospuda Valley conflict? It was their biggest achievement... :nuts:

Nobody mentioned it here yet:
A contract was signed with Strabag for construction of A1 north from Pyrzowice:

*A1:* Woźniki – Pyrzowice (S1) 15.2km (September 2015 to November 2018) – ? – map


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## ChrisZwolle

Will Drogowa Trasa Średnicowa in Gliwice open in September 2015 as planned?

http://www.dts-sa.pl/kolumna-lewa/p...y-glownej-532-km/?no_cache=1&cHash=5a97fce025


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## Luki_SL

^^No, Drogowa Trasa Średnicowa should be open at the beginning of the 2016. The construction works should be finished to the end of the year.


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## Kemo

Originally it was planned to be completed in December 2014...


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## JanVL

Works on the Battle of Warsaw 1920 street in Warsaw


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## Kemo

Modernisation of DK8/S8 in Warsaw (including widening of Grota-Roweckiego bridge to 10 lanes: 3+2+2+3) is about to finish.

Here's a video from Metrostav:


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## MichiH

Kemo said:


> 8 lanes - 3+2+2+3


:nuts:


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## db84

^^ The inner 2x2 lanes are the expressway S8 through-Warsaw passage. The outer 2x3 lanes are the city's street.


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## MichiH

^^ 3+2+2+3=10


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## Kemo

Oops. I can integrate but I can't add numbers :bash: :nuts:


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## Chris80678

http://tvnwarszawa.tvn24.pl/ulice,n...towe-czekaja-na-przeciecie-wstegi,177697.html

Great news! The upgrade of DK8/S8 and the Grota bridge is almost finished. There are just some acoustic screens to erect on a tiny section but now we are waiting for the permit to use and the ribbon cutting ceremony :cheers: An exact opening date is not known yet but unofficial rumours state Friday 11th Sept 2015 as the opening of the new south-bound carriageway of the Grota bridge


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## Kemo

Chris80678 said:


> we are waiting for the ribbon cutting ceremony :cheers:


There are no such things on GDDKiA projects anymore.  Well, they are likely to return after the autumn's elections...



> An exact opening date is not known yet but unofficial rumours state Friday 11th Sept 2015 as the opening of the new south-bound carriageway of the Grota bridge


They will open the outer carriageway first, and the inner will be opened a few weeks later.


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## Chris80678

http://tvnwarszawa.tvn24.pl/informa...y-otwarcie-mozliwe-w-tym-tygodniu,178081.html

There is a possibility that the S8 connector to DK7 will open by the end of this week or before 15th September :banana:


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## belerophon

Well following Kemos invitation, i do like to ask about the status of S61 (accordings to up-to-date information, which section will be built when, where are problems etc. the full programme of discussion which is usual here : ). As its my route to Latvia, thats of interest for me.


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## SRC_100

^^
24. S61 Augustów bypass - border crossing (PL/LT) 2016-2021 37,4km
25. S61 Ostrów Mazowiecka - Augustów bypass 2017-2021 149,3km

Now Augustów and Stawiska bypass is in operation, Szczuczyn bypass is u/c, Suwałki bypass is in tender.


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## belerophon

SRC_100 said:


> ^^
> 24. S61 Augustów bypass - border crossing (PL/LT) 2016-2021 37,4km
> 25. S61 Ostrów Mazowiecka - Augustów bypass 2017-2021 149,3km
> 
> Now Augustów and Stawiska bypass is in operation, Szczuczyn bypass is u/c, Suwałki bypass is in tender.


Is It a good guess that Lomza bypass comes earlier than the rest? 
Will the so called Marik bypass start in spring for real 
So many questions


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## SRC_100

^^
1. Maybe
2. Construction should start this autumn (end of constr. cca. July 2017)
3. No problem, just ask


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## mcarling

Kemo said:


> There are no [ribbon cutting ceremonies] on GDDKiA projects anymore.  Well, they are likely to return after the autumn's elections...


If the election results will be as the polls now indicate, then ribbon cutting ceremonies will be the main purpose of road construction. The roads will be incidental. 



belerophon said:


> Is It a good guess that Lomza bypass comes earlier than the rest?
> Will the so called Marik bypass start in spring for real
> So many questions


Until the results of the election are known, answers to questions of this sort will be unreliable.


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## Kemo

Painting lanes on DK7 Janki - Sękocin (continuation of Raszyn bypass towards Kraków).
Opening next week!
Also it's worth mentioning that construction of this section took *only 9 months* :cheers:

Photo by *bacique*


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## belerophon

mcarling said:


> If the election results will be as the polls now indicate, then ribbon cutting ceremonies will be the main purpose of road construction. The roads will be incidental.
> 
> 
> Until the results of the election are known, answers to questions of this sort will be unreliable.


Well that may be, but to bring it down to the facts,

in germany, every MP tries to point out his work for roads in his electoral district. But no matter which party is in rule, there are always MPs from everywhere. I can't see, that the change of government pushes some projects on cost of others. The opposite is true, everything is about balance. This means, that it does not matter, how important projects are, important is only, that every state (and smaller region within the states) gets its share.

So is there a big political discussion if S61 makes sense? I suspect if there are changes in the budget, which may push or hinder a project, on cost or in advantage of lets say social spending etc. 

But is there much political influence to built more in Upper Sileasias industrialized region or to support less evolved regions? What changes can we wait for, if PiS wins the elections like suspected?

Sry i want to understand it more than just to look at the surface^^
I travel Eastern-Europe often, but you learn so less out of Newspapers^^


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## SRC_100

^^
Never mind who win the ellection, S61 is going to be built for next 5-7 years.
Beside this, I don`t expect that much would be changed if PiS forms the government.


----------



## geogregor

SRC_100 said:


> ^^
> Beside this, I don`t expect that much would be changed if PiS forms the government.


Hopefully.

But I'm genuinely concerned for Polish road building program. 
Finally, after years of false promises, it seems to be rolling quite nicely in the last few years. But it is a delicate dance. All you need is a few incompetent appointments...


----------



## Kemo

belerophon said:


> What changes can we wait for, if PiS wins the elections like suspected?


It is a common fear that PiS will cut motorway construction in western Poland (hopefully the only roads they can halt now are S6 Koszalin - Gdynia, S3 south from Bolków, S3 north from Szczecin and A18), and they will build not-that-important roads in eastern Poland instead (like S19 between Białystok and Lublin with very low traffic).


----------



## Chris80678

http://tvnwarszawa.tvn24.pl/informa...nowa-nitka-mostu-grota-roweckiego,178802.html

At 21.30 pm last night (Fri 11th Sept 2015) two lanes of the newly added section to the Grota bridge opened to traffic :cheers: 

The other new lanes of Grota bridge and of the upgraded DK8 from Powązkowska to Modlińska will all be put into service at end of September / early October 2015


----------



## Blaskovitz




----------



## MichiH

^^ I thought some S3 sections north of Legnica are already u/c?
What's about A1 north of Katowice, I think contract is signed, but have construction works really been started?


----------



## Kemo

MichiH said:


> ^^ I thought some S3 sections north of Legnica are already u/c?



They are, but the above map is not as accurate as the other one (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81380146/mapka-igorsel.png)

Some actual works have also started on the sections around Głogów (the ones that I reported in your thread), I can dig out some photos 



> What's about A1 north of Katowice, I think contract is signed, but have construction works really been started?


They never start that soon after signing a contract, it usually takes about a month to start the actual construction works.


----------



## gregduh

Is there still going to be the eastern section of the ring around Warsaw?


----------



## Kemo

^^
Yes, but there are environmental and NIMBY problems. It can still be completed around 2011-2022, though.

Meanwhile, in Gliwice - new meets old. New retaining wall to the left (part of DTŚ project) and old German retaining wall to the right (I don't know when it was built, but it was already there in the '30s.)

Which one will break first? 

Photo by *Aikas*


----------



## ukraroad

I be my pardon. Any info about Lazienkowski bridge in Warsaw. Officials said it will be opened in the beginning of 2016, will it


----------



## bewu1

Lazienkowski Bridge is scheduled to open to traffic in November 2015; off course some works will be finished after that moment.


----------



## Kemo

Connector between S8 and DK7 (Janki Małe - Sękocin) has just opened for traffic. 3 months before schedule.

First cars on the new road - a photo from *bacique*, who is there right now together with 7 other SSC users and provides a live report


----------



## Kemo

And some photos from GDDKiA:


----------



## Strzala

*S19 Lublin West bypass:*




> http://lublin.wyborcza.pl/lublin/56,35640,18842900,szybciej-niz-do-tej-pory,,1.html


----------



## Kemo

Today tenders have been announced for:
- the remaining sections of S19 motorway between Lublin and Rzeszów - 55 km

- first short section of eastern part of Warsaw ringroad (S17 motorway) - 2,5 km

*- southern entrance/exit road from Warsaw (S7 motorway) - 30 km
- S7 motorway from Kraków to northern voivodship border - 56 km*
(this means that whole S7 between Warsaw and Kraków is either completed, under construction or in tender phase)

- the so-called metropolitan ringroad around Tricity (S6/S7 motorway) - 30 km

- DK20 bypass of Żukowo - 7 km

- DK5 bypass of Bolków - 6 km


----------



## bewu1

Launch of tenders for appr. 170 km of expressways in one day is Polish record to date. The explanation is that the parliamentary elections are scheduled on October, 25.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I noticed there is new satellite imagery of S5 under construction north of Wrocław. The satellite images are only 1 month old.


----------



## Kemo

Where is it available?


----------



## db84

Kemo said:


> Where is it available?


I'm watching them right now in the Google Earth application.


----------



## Kemo

The newest imagery from this area that I can see in GE is from 2013 :dunno:


----------



## JanVL

New road system near the new Łódź Fabryczna station ...





































http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=127189297#post127189297


----------



## John Maynard

On thing I don't understand is why built such "gigantic" roads in the city center? Does people living nearby really don't care about tranquility, quality of life, pollution, landscape among others in one of the most jammed city in Europe?
IMHO, would be better to put absolute priority on Łódź bypass (inexistent till now), and improve the actual city's ring road - not side roads, as it's the case here - but instead, create more green areas, conviviality points, promenades, nice places - which seriously lack in most Polish cities - on other parts of the city. 
As it has been shown on many Polish cities, creating huge at-grade downtown roads doesn't reduce congestions at all, quite the contrary > see Warsaw as a good example.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It seems like a multi-storey bus station with an intersection on top.


----------



## John Maynard

It seems not only for buses. Anyway, the roads on top and all this construction is by far excessive, IMHO. Don't forget that this is in the middle of Łódź downtown...


----------



## Kemo

There should be at least one decent east-west road in the city. And this is it. But I agree that this interchange seems like a triumph of form over substance.


----------



## Kanadzie

John Maynard said:


> On thing I don't understand is why built such "gigantic" roads in the city center? Does people living nearby really don't care about tranquility, quality of life, pollution, landscape among others in one of the most jammed city in Europe?.


Any city needs "correct" roads
If you strangle the city with inadequate roads... perhaps in the London manner, that isn't a good quality of life for the people living nearby either. Taking 20 min to enter your parking space every day and only being able to see a line of idling minicabs and smoky buses is terrible.

I really don't understand the drawings though, the whole bottom side seems pointless (unless it's just bus station parking / waiting / car kiss-and-ride zone)


----------



## John Maynard

Kemo said:


> There should be at least one decent east-west road in the city. And this is it. But I agree that this interchange seems like a triumph of form over substance.


Already existing downtown ring road - in which, all major road intersecting at North-South extremities (and not East-West) - fulfill perfectly its role for transit traffic. Btw., they are already many East-West roads through downtown in Łódź. The problem though is that all the traffic is obligated to pass through the town.



Kanadzie said:


> Any city needs "correct" roads
> If you strangle the city with inadequate roads... perhaps in the London manner, that isn't a good quality of life for the people living nearby either. Taking 20 min to enter your parking space every day and only being able to see a line of idling minicabs and smoky buses is terrible.
> 
> I really don't understand the drawings though, the whole bottom side seems pointless (unless it's just bus station parking / waiting / car kiss-and-ride zone)


I agree with you that cities need "correct" roads. However huge roads passing through city centers does not bring any solution to traffic problems; worse, they increase them much more then what they are supposed to "relief", by attracting even more cars downtown and creating even more congestions > that's exactly what's happening in Warsaw. Sadly, at the cost of all their inhabitants, city "charm", and quality of life among others negative effects...


----------



## Kemo

John Maynard said:


> Already existing downtown ring road - in which, all major road intersecting at North-South extremities (and not East-West) - fulfill perfectly its role for transit traffic. Btw., they are already many East-West roads through downtown in Łódź. The problem though is that all the traffic is obligated to pass through the town.


This road is not supposed to serve transit traffic through Łódź in general. It is supposed to serve traffic between west and east of the city. If you need to drive from point A to point B, using the inner ringroad (which, by the way, is also packed with traffic lights and therefore not faster than other roads) is ridiculous.
If you bulid one decent east-west road, you can "relieve" the others and make them more "city-friendly".


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kemo said:


> The thing is that this section of A4 needs to be upgraded. And since it requires massive roadworks and building most viaducts from scratch, it would be a waste not widening it to 2x3 lanes on this occasion. Wouldn't it?


In that case, the best scenario would be to build a second carriageway next to it, just like they did with the Reichsautobahn upgrade of A8 in Germany (Ulm - München). 

That way all the substandard elements like the narrow median and sightlines can be improved. 

It probably wouldn't cost that much more to build it like a six-lane motorway, as all bridges and overpasses would need replacement anyway, and a significant right-of-way expansion is needed even in a full-standard 2x2 scenario. 

Though I agree with other comments that the traffic volumes are quite low for six lanes. On the other hand, if you invest that much into upgrading the motorway, it should be adequate for the next 30 or 40 years. 

There were times when motorways were constructed in the past for traffic volumes we would today consider to be too low for a motorway in Western Europe (around 10,000 vpd). But in hindsight they are pretty useful.


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## John Maynard

ChrisZwolle said:


> In that case, the best scenario would be to build a second carriageway next to it, just like they did with the Reichsautobahn upgrade of A8 in Germany (Ulm - München).


Still, many of A8 section are 2X2 even if traffic is higher than Krzyzowa-Wroclaw section, as traffic flow do not require such an update.



ChrisZwolle said:


> That way all the substandard elements like the narrow median and sightlines can be improved.


That was done when they built the second carriageway further north on A18 - old RAB > wide of most overpasses is enough to accommodate a proper hard shoulder. 



ChrisZwolle said:


> It probably wouldn't cost that much more to build it like a six-lane motorway,* as all bridges and overpasses would need replacement anyway*, and a significant right-of-way expansion is needed even in a full-standard 2x2 scenario.


That's not true, since all bridges and overpasses were totally renovated/rebuilt a short time ago. Furthermore, right of way is already there for proper 2X2 to be built.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Though I agree with other comments that the traffic volumes are quite low for six lanes. On the other hand, if you invest that much into upgrading the motorway, it should be adequate for the next 30 or 40 years.


Priorities should go for roads with higher traffic, and not to invest for a lane widening on a low traffic motorway that doesn't need it, and was already rebuilt lastly + is there since Poland existed again. Think of all narrow and "shitty" roads that the country is full of :wallbash:, with huge traffic, locals that have more than enough and nuisance and danger of all this flow passing under their window, and serious, deadly accidents that would be much lower if the roads were just better - fit for traffic at least.




ChrisZwolle said:


> There were times when motorways were constructed in the past for traffic volumes we would today consider to be too low for a motorway in Western Europe (around 10,000 vpd). But in hindsight they are pretty useful.


FYI, in Poland there are many 2-lane roads that have a traffic flow which would require a widening to 2X3 in the "West" :bash:.


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## Kemo

John Maynard said:


> That's not true, since all bridges and overpasses were totally renovated/rebuilt a short time ago.


I don't think it is true, most of these bridges are already 80 years old and "renovating' them doesn't help much.



> Priorities should go for roads with higher traffic, and not to invest for a lane widening on a low traffic motorway that doesn't need it


Also priorities should go for roads with high accident rate, and A4 is definitely one of them. Most of the time when you read about a serious accident on a Polish motorway, it is on A4 in Lower Silesian or Opole voivodships.


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## ChrisZwolle

What is the current progress on the Szczuczyn bypass?


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## Kemo

Photos from July/August (from the project website):


----------



## SRC_100

*S14*

*Today was announced tender for construction of west bypass of Łódź, S14.*

Part 1: Stretch I from junction „Łódź Lublinek” to junction „Łódź Teofilów” - 12,2 km
Part 2: Stretch II from junction „Łódź Teofilów” (no junction) to DK91 in Słowik - 16,4 km

Both as expressway 2x2.

Time schedule:
Part 1 - 26 months
Part 2 - 32 months


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## Kemo

Łódź will therefore be the first city in Poland with full motorway ring. (Well, maybe Silesian metropolis will be first but A1-S1-A4 is not really a "ring".)

More news - S16 between Olsztyn (S51) and Ełk (S61) will be added to government's plans. Together with S5 between Grudziądz (A1) and Ostróda (S7). Also S10 will not be built along the old DK10, but near Płock. Western bypass of Szczecin (which was discussed on the previous page) will also be added to the plans.


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Interesting. Will S16 be designated as a droga ekspresowa and not DK16?


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## Luki_SL

^^Yes, DK16 will designated as S16.


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## Kemo

Yes. There is already a 30km stretch of road with S standard (out of which 10 km is 2x2 motorway, the rest has one carriageway with space reservation for the second):

https://www.google.pl/maps/dir/53.8...8301608,20.6769349/@53.8283386,20.8602893,11z

Also a part of Ełk bypass was built with S parameters: https://www.google.pl/maps/@53.8445...03&h=100&yaw=257.33456&pitch=0!7i13312!8i6656


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## Luki_SL

A1 Stryków-Tuszyn construction, aerial photos: 


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> 8.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 9.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 10.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cdn ...


 More


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## rakcancer

SRC_100 said:


> *S14*
> 
> *Today was announced tender for construction of west bypass of Łódź, S14.*
> 
> Part 1: Stretch I from junction „Łódź Lublinek” to junction „Łódź Teofilów” - 12,2 km
> Part 2: Stretch II from junction „Łódź Teofilów” (no junction) to DK91 in Słowik - 16,4 km
> 
> Both as expressway 2x2.
> 
> Time schedule:
> Part 1 - 26 months
> Part 2 - 32 months


 Map of project:


----------



## rakcancer

Luki_SL said:


> A1 Stryków-Tuszyn construction, aerial photos:
> 
> 
> More


It looks like nice 2x3... but unfortunately it is not....


----------



## MichiH

Kemo said:


> S5 between Grudziądz (A1) and Ostróda (S7).


Why S5? It replaces DK16!? According to wikipedia, it should be S16.


----------



## db84

rakcancer said:


> Map of *the* project:


Ridiculous. Junction in Zgierz is named after its neighbour town "Aleksandrów Łódzki".

Is there someone especially hating Zgierz or it's just a bereaucrat who is THAT STUPID???


----------



## ChrisZwolle

MichiH said:


> According to wikipedia, it should be S16.


Last update: 17 August.

Besides, Wikipedia is not always the best sourced. S16 was not part of the official expressway programme so far, even though some segments of DK16 were built to de-facto expressway standard. 

I wonder if they plan to build the Ostróda - Olsztyn stretch soon, or if they are planning that east-west traffic should use S7+S51 via Olsztynek. It's not a huge detour in an area where rural traffic may not be sufficient to demand a triangle of expressways.


----------



## Kemo

MichiH said:


> Why S5? It replaces DK16!? According to wikipedia, it should be S16.


Who cares 
Probably because DK16 between Ostróda and Olsztyn is not included in the plans, so S16 would not have continuity.



ChrisZwolle said:


> I wonder if they plan to build the Ostróda - Olsztyn stretch soon


It even had the EIA (blue colour on our maps), but it expired a few years ago...



> or if they are planning that east-west traffic should use S7+S51 via Olsztynek. It's not a huge detour in an area where rural traffic may not be sufficient to demand a triangle of expressways.


...so this is probably the case now.



db84 said:


> Ridiculous. Junction in Zgierz is named after its neighbour town "Aleksandrów Łódzki".
> 
> Is there someone especially hating Zgierz or it's just a bereaucrat who is THAT STUPID???


These are probably not the final names.
There is already a junction named "Zgierz" on A2. But it should be renamed to Zgierz North, and the junction on S14 renamed to Zgierz South or West.


----------



## Luki_SL

rakcancer said:


> It looks like nice 2x3... but unfortunately it is not....


West of Łódź, there will be S14 expressway 2x2 in 3-4years


----------



## rakcancer

Luki_SL said:


> West of Łódź, there will be S14 expressway 2x2 in 3-4years


That is nice but A1 should be 2x3 in that place anyway. That stretch is going to serve traffic of A1 and between A2 and S8.... It is going to be nightmare like on A2 bypassing Poznan.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

As they are building A1 near Łódź in concrete, that supposedly doesn't need major reconstruction until the late 2030s or early 2040s, it may have been a better option to build it with 2x3 lanes from the start. This will be the preferred route for traffic from Wrocław to Warsaw.


----------



## Kanadzie

JanVL said:


> Campaign for road safety in Poland
> 
> 
> 
> ZgazuTanoga = Z gazu ta noga = Off the gas, that foot (PL)


hahaha! I have had so many of that same car, now I drive the same but convertible :lol: The same way too probably, gear change excercises :lol:


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## PiotrG

> The same way too probably, gear change excercises


In fact it isn't something what we think about during driving. Gear change is so natural for us, that we have problems when driving with automatic transmission


----------



## SRC_100

ChrisZwolle said:


> What is the current progress on the Szczuczyn bypass?


Latest supervision photos

Part _one

_


MarekGF said:


> *Nadzór:*_ zdjęcia z września 2015_
> 
> *204+140*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *197+800*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *197+800*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *WE-PZ-9*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *WE-PZ-9*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *WE-PZ-9*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *M-PZ-8*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *WE-7*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *198+400*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *198+400*


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## SRC_100

Part _two_



MarekGF said:


> 198+400
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> M-PZ-8
> 
> 
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> M-PZ-8
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> WD-2
> 
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> WD-2
> 
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> 204+100
> 
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> 205+000
> 
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> DA2
> 
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> DD10
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> łącznica D


----------



## Kemo

Tenders have been started for:
- S6 motorway, section Sianów - Słupsk: 41 km
- S11 motorway, bypass of Kępno (section south of S8): 7 km
- S1 motorway, second carriageway on section Pyrzowice - Podwarpie: 10 km
- A2 motorway, section Warsaw (S17) - Mińsk Mazowiecki: 11km
- and possibly more, the day has not ended yet


----------



## JanVL

Since road safety is discussed here too sometimes:

This video from Poland has over 12.000 likes in Russia and more than 18.000 shares on FB:






http://pikio.pl/rosyjscy-internauci-zachwyceni-zachowaniem-polskich-kierowcow-video/


----------



## Strzala

New bridge in Rzeszów:



przypadek1 said:


> W Rzeszowie oddano do użytku nowy most - wysokość 108,5m.


----------



## sponge_bob

JanVL said:


> This video from Poland has over 12.000 likes in Russia and more than 18.000 shares on FB:


Russia is the Hollywood of dashcam vids they sure know their stuff.  

My 10 year old even listed "dashcam videos" as one of Russias 5 biggest exports in his school project on Russia last month.


----------



## m_rocco

Any news about S1 Myslowice-Bielsko Biala?


----------



## rakcancer

This is not priority for polish government at the present...


----------



## Kemo

rakcancer said:


> This is not priority for polish government at the present...


The government says that it is a priority. But the exact route is not even known yet. There are problems with coal mines, UNESCO (proximity to KL Auschwitz), NIMBY-s, ecologists and so on.
The application for EIA (blue colour on our maps) was submitted 4 months ago.
This section is planned to be completed in 2021.


----------



## rakcancer

Well, I am big supporter of S1 BUT the same problems are with other projects: S7- ecologist, S8 (Marki bypass) protests of local municipalities... etc, etc... yet they are already implemented. In case of S1 government doesn't have that much of pressure to push project forward and to confront all the problems you have described and they have been on agenda for quite a long time. Not that it is intentionally, just probably because of luck of founding while S1 would replace already built dual carriageway between Bielsko-Biala and Myslowice.


----------



## ufonut

Contracts signed for S7 Koszwały - Kazimierzowo.

Koszwały - Nowy Dwór Gdański - Metrostav - 1 642 440 982,07 zł. 

Nowy Dwór Gdański - Kazimierzowo - Budimex - 1 576 393 866,42 zł. 

End of contract 3rd quarter 2018

2x2 expressway 

Length: 40 km


----------



## Kemo

^^
S7: Żuławy-West - Nowy Dwór Gdański 20.5km (October 2015 to October 2018) – project – map
S7: Nowy Dwór Gdański - Elbląg-South 19.1km (October 2015 to October 2018) – project – map


----------



## ufonut

Contract signed for S6 Kiełpino - Kołobrzeg Zach.

Contractors are PolAqua Sp. z o.o. and Dragados S.A. 
Cost is 455 042 180,12 zł
Length: 24 km
2x2 expressway 
End of contract 2nd quarter 2019


----------



## bad_boy

ufonut said:


> Contracts signed for S7 Koszwały - Kazimierzowo.
> 
> Koszwały - Nowy Dwór Gdański - Metrostav - 1 642 440 982,07 zł.
> 
> Nowy Dwór Gdański - Kazimierzowo - Budimex - 1 576 393 866,42 zł.
> 
> End of contract 3rd quarter 2018
> 
> 2x2 expressway
> 
> Length: 40 km


Worth to mention that this is quite expensive section of S7 (cost amounting to PLN 80,000,000 / km or EUR 20,000,000 / km) for what seems to be a flat undeveloped terrain. But this section goes through extreme Polish lowlands (the alluvial delta area of Vistula river, 28% of which lies below see level).

There will be a lot of soil replacement works, many long single-span bridges (to avoid pillars) over what seems to be a few meter wide rivers and lots of environmental protection engineering.


----------



## ufonut

Highways and expressways statistics:

Undergoing tenders: 1041,89 km
Under construction: 808,07 km

Total: *1 857,96 km* new highways/expressways in the pipeline.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's what € 23 billion in Cohesion Funds will do for ya


----------



## MichiH

ufonut said:


> Highways and expressways statistics:
> 
> Undergoing tenders: 1041,89 km
> Under construction: 808,07 km
> 
> Total: *1 857,96 km* new highways/expressways in the pipeline.


Thanks. I think it's including DK roads, isn't it? What's the sum of A/S roads only?


----------



## Daniel749

MichiH said:


> Thanks. I think it's including DK roads, isn't it? What's the sum of A/S roads only?


No, it's the sum of A/S: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/pegda8rg5d7tzyg/AiS.png

("gotowej" -> finished; "w budowie" -> under construction; "w przetargu" -> in tender; "planowanej z/bez DSU" -> planned with/without DSU)


----------



## JanVL

*Road safety statistics for September 2015*

*September*

*Number of road accidents*

- 2015: 2.938
- 2014: 3.284
- 2013: 3.525


*Road fatalities*

- 2015: 261
- 2014: 300
- 2013: 317


*Number of wounded*

- 2015: 3.440
- 2014: 3.954
- 2013: 4.330

*January-September*

*Number of road accidents*

- 2015: 24.138
- 2014: 25.746
- 2013: 25.785

*Road fatalities*

- 2015: 2.064
- 2014: 2.259
- 2013: 2.329


*Number of wounded*

- 2015: 29.407
- 2014: 31.638
- 2013: 31.964

http://statystyka.policja.pl/st/ruc...wo-w-ruchu-drogowym-w-ujeciu-miesiecznym.html


----------



## Kemo

m_rocco said:


> I remember that reconstruction. Maybe it was an unlucky day but it took me 4 hours from Piotrkow to Mszczonow, something like average 20kmph.
> I'm hoping in Mcarling solution to avoid a similar situation in DK1


The difference is that S8 had no alternative road. DK1/A1 has a parallel alternative road - DK91. So it won't be that bad.

Tenders were launched today for some roads in Western Pomeranian region:

- second carriageway of S10 motorway on section Kobylanka - Stargard: 6,4 km
- DK13 expressway between Szczecin and Kołbaskowo (interchange with A6): 6,5 km
- S3 motorway, section Miękowo - Ostromice: ~22 km
- upgrade of S3/A6 motorway, section Szczecin-Goleniów (including replacing the 80 years old concrete pavement with asphalt, liquidation of the at-grade intersections, realignment and a new interchange in this area, enlargement of the Szczecin-Kijewo interchange and building some ecoducts)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kemo said:


> - DK13 expressway between Szczecin and Kołbaskowo (interchange with A6): 6,5 km


Isn't this the same corridor as S6 is supposed to run through in the (far) future?

Edit: Yes: https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/userfiles/articles/o/obwodnica-przeclawia-i-warzymic-_19961/DK13 cv.jpg


----------



## rakcancer

All contracts for missing pieces of S5 in Kujawsko-Pomorskie voivodeship were signed today: 
Sec.1 Nowe Marzy – Dworzysko (23,3 km ) - price: 374 722 113,70 zł. company: IMPRESA PIZZAROTTI & C.S.p.A.,
sec. 2 Dworzysko – Aleksandrowo ( 22,4 km) - price: 409 760 779,95 zł. company: IMPRESA PIZZAROTTI & C.S.p.A.
sec. 3 Aleksandrowo – Tryszczyn (14,7 km) - price: 369 000 000 zł. companies: Przedsiębiorstwo Usług Technicznych INTERCOR Sp. z o.o. ( lider), TRAKCJA PRKiI S.A (partner).;
sec. 4 Tryszczyn – Białe Błota ( 13,5 km ) - price: 328 476 590,77 zł. companies: POLAQUA Sp. z o.o. (lider), DRAGADOS S.A. (partner);
sec. 5 Białe Błota – Szubin (9,7 km) - price: 259 926 113,82 zł. company: IMPRESA PIZZAROTTI & C.S.p.A.,
sec. 6 Szubin – Jaroszewo ( 19,3 km ) - price: 351 971 806,20 zł. companies: TRAKCJA PRKiI S.A. (lider), Przedsiębiorstwo Usług Technicznych INTERCOR Sp. z o.o. (partner).;
sec. 7 Jaroszewo – gr. województwa ( 25,1 km ) - price: 421 818 666,51 zł. companies: Przedsiębiorstwo Budowy Dróg i Mostów KOBYLARNIA S.A. ( lider); MIRBUD S.A. ( partner),

source:
http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/20210...dcinkow-S5-w-woj-kujawsko-pomorskim-podpisane


----------



## Eulanthe

m_rocco said:


> I've read somewhere in polish thread that local people are against rebuilding DK1 in A standard and tolling it and that there was an idea to build it like untolled S-road. Fake news?
> I can't imagine how they're going to handle traffic during rebuilding!


I'm not sure why anyone is protesting when it's obvious to everyone that vignettes/road taxes are on their way - there's no way Poland can afford to maintain such a big network without some sort of usage tax on motorways and expressways. 

It would be nice if electronic tolling was introduced only on the A-roads, but I'm wondering if the S-roads can escape tolls. But I think a vignette scheme is likely - if they can figure out how to incorporate the private toll roads. Otherwise, electronic tolling seems to be likely


----------



## mcarling

m_rocco said:


> I remember that reconstruction. Maybe it was an unlucky day but it took me 4 hours from Piotrkow to Mszczonow, something like average 20kmph.
> I'm hoping in Mcarling solution to avoid a similar situation in DK1


I don't think I ever needed four hours to get from Piotrkow to Mszczonow, but I do remember four hours between Piotrkow and Warsaw on a number of occasions.



Kemo said:


> The difference is that S8 had no alternative road. DK1/A1 has a parallel alternative road - DK91. So it won't be that bad.


While it's true that the DK1/A1 has the DK91 and the DK8/S8 did not have a similar road (DW719 is not as good an alternate route as DK91), I believe the DK1 carries more traffic than the DK8 did at that time, so I'm not at all convinced that a cheap approach to handling traffic during construction of the A1 will not be as bad as during construction of the S8. I fear it could be worse.


----------



## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> Isn't this the same corridor as S6 is supposed to run through in the (far) future?https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/userfiles/articles/o/obwodnica-przeclawia-i-warzymic-_19961/DK13 cv.jpg


Only the section from km 5 to A6.



Eulanthe said:


> It would be nice if electronic tolling was introduced only on the A-roads, but I'm wondering if the S-roads can escape tolls.


Not that nice, because that would be a sort of discrimination. I mean, why do you have to pay when travelling from Wrocław to Katowice, and do not have to pay when travelling from Wrocław to Łódź if the road quality is virtually the same?


----------



## Maciek_CK

Just some random clickable photos of Warsaw's Al. Jerozolimskie, Wisłostrada / Trasa Armii Krajowej (S8) and Poniatowski Bridge, respectively .







I highly recommend to check the author’s website: http://maciejmargas.pl/


----------



## Kanadzie

mcarling said:


> It would be possible to lay one new A-standard carriageway next to the two existing carriageways of the DK1, then use it temporarily as 2x2 (for example, four 3.5 meter lanes without shoulder separated by a Jersey barrier) while replacing the old carriageways with the second A-standard carriageway. In my opinion, they could safely set the speed limit on the temporary implementation at 100 to 120 kmh.
> 
> Sadly, I think it is more likely that the government will try to economize on land acquisition and force all the traffic onto one of the existing carriageways (which I doubt would accommodate four 3.0 meter lanes) in order to build the first A-standard carriageway in place of one of the existing carriageways. In this case, the speed limit on the temporary implementation would have to be 50 to 70 kmh.


I've seen in Canada in similar situations a simple temporary widening of the existing carriageway with some gravel and asphalt on the side for a new lane to keep lane count one one carriageway... doesn't look that expensive.


----------



## mcarling

Kanadzie said:


> I've seen in Canada in similar situations a simple temporary widening of the existing carriageway with some gravel and asphalt on the side for a new lane to keep lane count one one carriageway... doesn't look that expensive.


How long does that last? Does it survive a summer/winter cycle? Would it be serviceable for three or four years of construction?


----------



## Kanadzie

For sure if built solid enough (I imagine depth of gravel and asphalt thickness)
I remember Autoroute 15 north of Montreal (south of A-50)had this kind of treatment when one carriageway was entirely obliterated and replaced with a 4 lane concrete carriageway (which then served traffic while the process was repeated) for a length of ca. 15-20 km
that said it was only in service for approx 1-2 year (how long does it take to dig up the road and redo it?)

I've noticed the shoulder pavement thickness is normally not large and it gets ripped up in short order if used for traffic during a construction staging, at least out here.


----------



## radko

rakcancer said:


> If you mean so called Gierkowka between Warszawa - Piotrkow Trybunalski-Czestochowa and Katowice then it was built in 70's


Yes, I mean Warszawa - Piotrkow Trybunalski - Czestochowa. But when was built in early / middle / late 70's?
I want to draw map of Poland. In every edited map (France, Belarus, Spain older that 1995) do not show dual-carriageways, too. I don't know why.


----------



## rakcancer

Gierkowka was built between 1973 and 1976. There was more extensions of that road and another dual carriageways built in Upper Silesia. Between Katowice and Bielsko-Biala (today DK86 and DK1) and between Katowice and Wisla (today DK81 and DW941) Also Eastern bypass of GOP (today S1/DK1) - built between 1978 and 1983


----------



## rakcancer

Another major dual carriageways built in 70's and 80's are: 
Tricity bypass in north (today S6). 
Katowice-Sosnowiec-Olkusz (today S86 and DK94). 
Poznan-Wrzesnia (today DK92), 
Warszawa-Grojec (today DK7). 
So-called Zakopianka fromKrakow to Myslenice and perhaps a bit further (today DK7). 
Przemysl - Radymno (today DK77). 
Lublin-Piaski (today upgraded to S17/S12). 
Warszawa-Zakroczym(?) (today DK7/S7)... 
And on the top of that couple of motorway streches. Wrzesnia-Konin (A2), Krakow-Katowice (A4), Piotrkow Trybunalski - Tuszyn (A1)


----------



## Eulanthe

Stupid question, but were motorways numbered then?

When was the DK2 section from Świecko to Rzepin built?


----------



## Eulanthe

Kemo said:


> Not that nice, because that would be a sort of discrimination. I mean, why do you have to pay when travelling from Wrocław to Katowice, and do not have to pay when travelling from Wrocław to Łódź if the road quality is virtually the same?


This is why I think vignettes are inevitable on all A and S class roads. But the private concessionaires may present a huge problem - it would be a huge absurdity if vignettes were required for all roads and then extra tolls on top. Having said that, cars don't do much damage to roads, so it's possible that an agreement could be made there.


----------



## rakcancer

Eulanthe said:


> Stupid question, but were motorways numbered then?
> 
> When was the DK2 section from Świecko to Rzepin built?


1. There is no stupid question to ask  I am not 100% sure but as I remember motorways were numbered as International Roads for example today's A2 was at that time just E8 and today's A4 was at that time E22.
2. ? - tough question... It is probably related to existing autobahn on german side and bridge over the Odra river.... so that could mean that it was built before 2WW? Interesting...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They could triple toll revenue by raising the truck toll to match that of neighboring countries.

According to the Viatoll website, the current toll rate for euro 5 trucks is only 0.27 złoty per kilometer (€ 0.06 per km). That is probably the lowest distance-based truck toll in the European Union. 

http://www.viatoll.pl/en/trucks/viatoll-system/toll-rates

To compare a euro 5 truck in nearby countries;

* Poland: € 0.06 per km
* Belarus: € 0.15 per km
* Germany: € 0.16 per km
* Czech Republic: € 0.17 per km
* Slovakia: € 0.18 per km
* Hungary: € 0.29 per km
* Austria: € 0.33 per km
* Switzerland: € 0.84 per km :nuts:

All of these countries charge at least 2.5 times more than Viatoll.


----------



## rakcancer

Nice comparison. We have objections to pay for anything in Poland but in this case it is stupid. There is a lot of trucks from abroad on polish roads. And they pay pennies comparing to other countries...


----------



## JanVL

Of course one shouldn't forget the possible implications of a raise. Poland has one of the largest transport sectors of Europe, a lot of warehouses, it's investing heavily to develop its ports which are becoming the biggest of the Baltic Sea, ... It's hard to make everything expensive immediately or one could lose some competitiveness.


----------



## rakcancer

1.True, but on the other hand they cause most damage of road network that need to be repaired, so do we have to subsidize these companies with our taxes? Isn't that similar to situation with coal miners, farmers or priests teaching religion at schools and payed with our money? 2. As stated before, big chunk of users of polish roads are truckers from abroad. Do we need to support them too in such a low charges?


----------



## JanVL

No, but everything should be taken into consideration. Just raising this points. The German minimum wage has already a possible negative impact on the Polish transport sector.


----------



## mcarling

Shipping companies will choose the modality and route based on many factors that contribute to overall cost. They do not care about cost per km. Rather they care about the bottom line. Poland's competitive position in freight markets is determined by geography and infrastructure as much as (and probably more than) by toll charges. My guess is Poland could probably double truck tolls with little impact on competition. Perhaps some freight would switch from road to ship via the Baltic Sea, but I doubt it would be dramatic.


----------



## John Maynard

^^ And introduce proper weight stations, automated weight checks and "true and frequent" random controls - just like it take place in others developped countries - for the overall benefit for safety of others road users and better roads condition. Moreover, introduce real and discouraging fines for the lawbreakers - not the ridicule one that are in place right now, and which cost less than to make 2 "legal" transport instead, it's only encouraging such nasty behaviour :wallbash:.
I have more than enough of all the trucks companies that totally don't care about it and play with the lives of others :bash:


----------



## Kemo

Bridge on Wisła in Kamień (DW747) opens to traffic today. It fills the 60km gap between bridges in Puławy and Annopol. DW747 was modernised to GP class or built from scratch on the whole section between Lublin and Wisła (~50 km). DW747 becomes the most direct route from Lublin to Kielce (although some improvements in the Mazowsze and Świętokrzyskie regions are still to be made).

Some photos from *Leszek LBN*



>


and from *bubuluza*



>


and from *zbyhoo78*



>


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kemo said:


> DW747 becomes the most direct route from Lublin to Kielce


Nice upgrade. This seems droga krajowa-worthy.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^It is said, that it`ll become national road in furure.


----------



## Kemo

S7 motorway through the Świętokrzyskie Mountains (Holy Cross Mountains). Many ecoducts on ths section.


----------



## mcarling

Kemo said:


> DW747 becomes the most direct route from Lublin to Kielce (although some improvements in the Mazowsze and Świętokrzyskie regions are still to be made).


I definitely would not go via Radom (at least until the S7 bypass of Radom has been completed). Each of the several times I've been through Radom, it has been a traffic nightmare. Does the DW747 terminate at Iłża?


----------



## Kemo

mcarling said:


> Does the DW747 terminate at Iłża?


Yes. You can then use some local roads to reach S7 in Skarżysko-Kamienna.

Or choose DW754, DW751 and DW753 through Ostrowiec Świętokrzyski:
https://www.google.pl/maps/dir/51.1...8760723,20.6374384/@50.9808064,20.9896875,10z
(The problem is that DW754 near Ostrowiec has an Ukrainian standard, and DW751/753 is almost a constant built-up area).

By the way, here is a video from modernised DW753/751 through Świętokrzyskie mountains, check ny channel on youtube for more videos


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## rakcancer

Progress on reconstruction of burned Lazienkowski bridge in Warsaw:



source and more pics here:
https://twitter.com/lazienkowski


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## Mateusz

Luki_SL said:


> ^^It is said, that it`ll become national road in furure.


What number will it get?


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## Luki_SL

^^ Probably it`ll be an extenstion of national road "82".


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## mcarling

Luki_SL said:


> ^^ Probably it`ll be an extenstion of national road "82".


That would make sense. I hope they will build a new section of DK82 to bypass Iłża, flyover the railroad, and then interchange with the S7 near Skarżysko-Kamienna.


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## seszele

S69, section Zwardoń-Milówka, magic landscape, early morning today:


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## Luki_SL

Google Earth : A1/A4/44 and A1 / 902 (DTŚ) interchange :


poldon82 said:


> Na razie chyba brak zdjęć lotniczych z tego rejonu ale można podziwiać to na google earth:


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## mr.cool

Can we expect any more contracts to be signed before the elections this Sunday?


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## ChrisZwolle

One contract for S17 Skrudki - Kurów-west was signed today


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## Luki_SL

Contract for contsruction the second carriageway of S3 expressway Zielona Góra - Niedoradz (od km 286+043 to km 299+350) was signed today with BUDIMEX S.A. and - FERROVIAL AGROMAN S.A (consortium).










http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/20298...sowanie-kolejnego-odcinka-drogi-S3-w-lubuskim

Lenght: 13,3km
Cost: 194 293 222,94 zł.
Planned openning : 1st quarter 2018


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## Maciek_CK

Hrubieszów bypass was opened today. It’s 9,3 km long and a part of DK74, just before PL/UA border.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/50.8003/23.8923


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## Kemo

^^
We have therefore exceeded 100 km of new roads opened in 2015 (not counting the A and S class roads)


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## mcarling

Kemo said:


> We have therefore exceeded 100 km of new roads opened in 2015 (not counting the A and S class roads)


Nice! That takes some of the pain out of zero kilometers of new A-class roads for 2015 and only a few dozen kilometers of new S-class roads for 2015.


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## Kemo

Warsaw by night. The existing half of motorway ringroad is clearly visible 










Source


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## ChrisZwolle

What are the chances that a PiS government would introduce more tolls? 

Most potential toll roads seem to be in areas with a lot of PO voters. Except A4 in the southeast.


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> What are the chances that a PiS government would introduce more tolls?


Zero. It is a populist party. Do not be mislead party support maps - they have support across the whole country, it is just a matter of few pp. difference.


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## Kemo

S5 near Gniezno - from the project website


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## Kemo

S7 near Jędrzejów - from the project website


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## mr.cool

Now that PiS has won the elections in Poland, how will this change the plans for road construction if at all? Do they have different priorities for roads/railways? Could the current tenders out there be severely delayed if they don't approve of it? I'd like to know all your thoughts...


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## ChrisZwolle

I've read that the Łazienkowski Bridge in Warsaw will open to traffic on Tuesday night. Did they replace all bridge deck segments after the fire in February? 

It's a very fast job, by comparison, a fire damaged a much smaller bridge of German A57 beyond repair, and now 3.5 years later traffic is still driving across temporary bridges and the new bridge has yet to begin construction.


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## chauffeur

^^For classic cars so far. 








http://www.stadobaranow.pl/index.php/lazienkowski-otwarty-dla-syren-i-warszaw/


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## mcarling

mr.cool said:


> Now that PiS has won the elections in Poland, how will this change the plans for road construction if at all? Do they have different priorities for roads/railways? Could the current tenders out there be severely delayed if they don't approve of it? I'd like to know all your thoughts...





ChrisZwolle said:


> I've read that the Łazienkowski Bridge in Warsaw will open to traffic on Tuesday night. Did they replace all bridge deck segments after the fire in February?
> 
> It's a very fast job, by comparison, a fire damaged a much smaller bridge of German A57 beyond repair, and now 3.5 years later traffic is still driving across temporary bridges and the new bridge has yet to begin construction.


If PiS had been in power and had their cronies installed thoughout the bureaucracy over the last year, they probably would already have spent twice as much as has been spent on the Łazienkowski Bridge and construction probably would not yet have begun.

For contracts that have not yet been signed, I expect the price per kilometer to double, the time to complete to double, and the quality to drop drastically.


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## Luki_SL

S69 expressway Bielsko-Biała - Żywiec, aerial photos:



John Deere said:


> Lotnicze ze strony nadzoru-październik:


 More


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## Eulanthe

mcarling said:


> If PiS had been in power and had their cronies installed thoughout the bureaucracy over the last year, they probably would already have spent twice as much as has been spent on the Łazienkowski Bridge and construction probably would not yet have begun.
> 
> For contracts that have not yet been signed, I expect the price per kilometer to double, the time to complete to double, and the quality to drop drastically.


That's pretty much what I expect, combined with some blatant rigging of tenders to make sure that Polish companies win regardless of price. 

I'm pretty sure that there will be a lot of problems with foreign-constructed sections, for instance the fragment of S5 near Poznań towards Leszno.


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## Deadeye Reloaded

chauffeur said:


> ^^For classic cars so far.
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> http://www.stadobaranow.pl/index.php/lazienkowski-otwarty-dla-syren-i-warszaw/


^^
First drag race on the new bridge!


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## Don Vito KurDeBalanz

^^ Sorry for OT but this remained me that


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## sotonsi

mcarling said:


> If PiS had been in power and had their cronies installed thoughout the bureaucracy over the last year, they probably would already have spent twice as much as has been spent on the Łazienkowski Bridge and construction probably would not yet have begun.
> 
> For contracts that have not yet been signed, I expect the price per kilometer to double, the time to complete to double, and the quality to drop drastically.


Based on what evidence? Or is this baseless dislike of PiS rather than serious discussion of the outcome of recent elections?


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## Rombi

Yeah, I'm not fan of PIS at all, but I suggest to end this pointless discussion.
Are there any new tenders anyway?


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## geogregor

Rombi said:


> Yeah, I'm not fan of PIS at all, but I suggest to end this pointless discussion.
> Are there any new tenders anyway?


Good, question. 
I wonder if there is going to be any break in the flood of tenders we had in the recent weeks and months. 
Unfortunately here is no escape of the fact that a lot will depend how fast the new top brass in the national road authority will get up to speed.


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## Maciek_CK

Here’s some good and worthy of this thread news: Łazienkowski Bridge is passable as of this morning. It was closed for 255 days due to a fire damage.









pic from ZDM Warszawa


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## ChrisZwolle

The western A4/S19 interchange near Rzeszów is built in a way that the motorway can be extended north. Are there plans for a new DK9 / S9 / A9 alignment? Especially because they just built a new interchange along existing DK9.


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## bewu1

So far, they are no such plans. But Rzeszów is in Galicja region where the support for PIS is the highest in Poland. So one may expect some modification of current National Roads Construction Program.


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## ChrisZwolle

A lack of DK9 corridor expressway has always surprised me.


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## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> Especially because they just built a new interchange along existing DK9.


The only thing that is anyhow close to being planned is a road (DW869, to be specific) connecting the newly built interchange on DK9 with this interchange on A4. This is pointless, though...

(Red section on this map)


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## bewu1

ChrisZwolle said:


> A lack of DK9 corridor expressway has always surprised me.


Once expressway Warsaw-Lublin- Rzeszow is finished, then the lack of DK9 corridor will be less painful.


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## ChrisZwolle

That's true, but only for traffic that drives all the way from Warsaw to Rzeszów.

How much longer would Białystok - Lublin via S8+S17 be instead of S19? There doesn't seem to be much between Białystok and Lublin along the planned S19.


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## JanVL

..



Petr said:


> It doesn't concern only public transport, but today was reopened Łazienkowski Bridge after its reconstruction after fire in February this year. So Warsaw again has 8 road bridges (including 4 with tram rails), 2 classic railway bridges and one metro tunnel under Vistula River.
> 
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## Kanadzie

bewu1 said:


> So far, they are no such plans. But Rzeszów is in Galicja region where the support for PIS is the highest in Poland. So one may expect some modification of current National Roads Construction Program.


Surely there must have been some plan? As it is the presence of the overpass over A 4 makes no sense and would have been spending tens of millions zlotych on nothing.


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## mcarling

Kanadzie said:


> Surely there must have been some plan? As it is the presence of the overpass over A 4 makes no sense and would have been spending tens of millions zlotych on nothing.


I disagree. It's spending a relatively small amount in the present to save spending a huge amount in the future if someone comes up with a specific plan later.


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## mr.cool

New contract signed today - S6 expressway - Ustronie Morkskie - Koszalin. Length - 24.2km. Amount - PLN 436 844 659.80. Contractor - Strabag. Completion date - April 2019.


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## Luki_SL

A1 motorway contruction, section Stryków-Tuszyn:



Kazusik said:


> Nadzór odc. II zdjęcia z 27.10.
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## Dusha

Kemo said:


> Tenders have been started for:
> 
> - A2 motorway, section Warsaw (S17) - Mińsk Mazowiecki: 11km


Hi, can anyone share the current status for Pulawska-S17 stretch (missing part of S2-southern bypass)?
Has the tender been completed already? Do we have a contract signed? What are the timelines?


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## MichiH

^^ The contract should be signed on Saturday, the contract deadline is May 2020: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/dipup3d5lthw2rl/projekty2014-2020.png.


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## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> A lack of DK9 corridor expressway has always surprised me.


An S9 starting at the north with an eastern bypass of Radom going south to the (western) A4/S19 interchange at Rzeszow would be a logical pork barrel project for PiS to give their constituents.


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## PLH

*Zero *politics.

*Zero *city vs. city


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## Strzala

Today video from S19 Lublin West Bypass:



DarGog said:


>


Road should be ready for traffic next year.


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## Kemo

Bypass of Bełchatów (DK74) 8 months after construction start.

(11 km, 3 interchanges, grade-separated, 2+1 format)

Photos from the project website


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## mcarling

Kemo said:


> Bypass of Bełchatów (DK74) 8 months after construction start.
> 
> (11 km, 3 interchanges, grade-separated, 2+1 format)


Are there plans to eventually upgrade the DK74 to 2+1 all the way from the A1 to the S8 near Wielun (about 100 km)?


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## Luki_SL

^^There is no plans to upgrade this section.


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## ChrisZwolle

They set an amazing pace at the Bełchatów Bypass. We've recently seen projects in other countries where a road looks like that after 5 years of construction.


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## Luki_SL

^^"74" - Bełchatów, Drogowa Trasa Średnicowa (Gliwice), motorway A1 Stryków-Tuszyn - these roads are constructed the fastest now


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## Maciek_CK

Works progress on S7 in Świętokrzyskie Voivodeship, both on Chęciny - Jędrzejów (Salini Impregilo) and Jędrzejów - voivodeships' border (Budimex) sections. Courtesy of skrzetuski.

We start on DK7 just outside Kielce, towards Kraków.














































And the second section, starting with Jędrzejów bypass (to be widened).


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## John Maynard

*Polish police officer performing an alcotest on TV* :nuts::






FYI: Green: no alcohol, Yellow: within legal limit, *RED: over legal limit*

Needless to say, that he did not come on foot to the stage :nuts:.


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## Kemo

0:23 - green light on the right side = no alcohol detected.
The light on the left indicates whether the device is currently measuring or analysing.


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## rakcancer

You are right. Nevertheless it can be confusing.... especially after drinking


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## John Maynard

^^ *Actualy, the second diod is yellow - alcohol within the legal limit*. Nevertheless, the police officer could show the result on camera and explain it to the public; instead of throwing away quickly the device, and just replying "I am sober for sure, I tested before" letting the other guests mocking him that "You diplay red" or "that device is exactly for testing this". Now many people may think nationwide that the police officer was drunk :nuts:.

...Not very good when taking about alcohol checks and police efficiency, just after a drunken complete retard idiot have confused the pavement with the roadway, leaving barely recognisable bodies of two bystanders waiting on a bus stop in downtown Warsaw :bash:

http://www4.rp.pl/Warszawa/151039893-Warszawa-Pijany-kierowca-wjechal-w-przystanek-dwie-osoby-nie-zyja.html


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## Rusonaldo

Link to a website with a map of parking lots along the Polish roads. It is also downloadable application that is available in 5 languages.

www.autostradypolska.pl/


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## seszele

*[PL] Poland | road infrastructure • infrastruktura drogowa*

Andrzej Adamczyk will rule Ministry of Infrastructure from next Monday on:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrzej_Adamczyk

He was involved in promoting several infrastructure projects for Lesser Poland/ Małopolska region, including S7, new route Brzesko- Nowy Sącz (Dk 75) and so called BDI (connecting Dk7 in Głogoczów with S69 / Bielsko Biała ring) plus some others.

Let's see if that helps to any of above projects in any way.


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## mr.cool

New contract signed today! 

S17 - Bypass of Ryki to . Length - 20km approx. Contractor - Design and build; PORR Polish Infrastructure (formerly Bilfinger Infrastructure). Cost - 608.8 million złoty. Completion date - Summer 2019. 

This means everything has now been signed between Garwolin bypass and newest build of expressway of Lublin bypass. Just three more sections remain of S17 from Garwolin to Warsaw ringroad (S2, A2) to be signed!


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## Nowax

S7 - Eastern bypass of Krakow



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## Nowax

harpun said:


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## ukraroad

Is there any Ssc.Viacom renovation or it's stuck? I can't see their progress since October 5. Could you find some reliable sources. Except for Gddkia. It signs that Gniezno-Bydgoszcz is in realization (S5)


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## Kemo

Do you mean this map? http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/
It is rarely updated.
Check this map instead - http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81380146/mapka-igorsel.png


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## Strzala

New bridge over Vistula river in Kamień [DW747] - new connection between lubelskie,mazowieckie and świętokrzyskie voivodeships:


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## ukraroad

When I summed up the whole thing on motorways and expressways, I was quite shocked. A lot changed since even mid-October. For details see Highways in Poland(wikipedia) trust me, that was me editing according to 6 sites


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## sponge_bob

ADD the red bits and the green bits alone and it finally looks like a network rather than a dream....as it was in 2009 when some of the motorways were 'to be open' for Euro 2012.

http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81380146/mapka-igorsel.png

Then add the purple bits in tendering right now. Poland has done so much since around 2007 when hardly any of those roads were open.


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## Kemo

Bypass of Szczuczyn on DK61/future S61 was opened today. (8km)

Bypass of Bargłów Kościelny (also on DK61) should be opened soon, too. (11 km)


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## ufonut

Contract was signed for the bypass of Szczecinek (S11)

Length: 12 km expressway 2x2
Cost: 333 million PLN
Opening date: April 2019


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## Kemo

A video from Szczuczyn bypass, found on YT:


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## Kemo

Second carriageway of Miedzyrzecz bypass on S3

Photos by *JacYk*


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## ukraroad

Kemo said:


> Second carriageway of Miedzyrzecz bypass on S3
> 
> Photos by *JacYk*


So if it is so advanced, why only 2017? Or is it a deadline, but anyway brilliant pics


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## mcarling

^^
There is nothing to be disheartened about. For the last seven or eight years, Poland has had the best progress in road construction in the EU.


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## LMB

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ who want to go east anymore?


The Business.


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## DannyBoy85

Hell, the road network has really improved in Poland (compared to my visit by single car in 2005).


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## rakcancer

ukraroad said:


> How is the progress going on S1 DSU from Myslowice to Bielsko-Biala? I guess it must a priority. Plus wiki says there is(or at least was) some money to carry out a tender for A18 motorway for 2011-2015, GDDKiA in Zielona Gora said. A nice addition to the motorway system. I guess people from Berlin go via S3 to Wroclaw. Maybe it would be nice to change those concrete slabs, uh? Tired of driving 70 on a two-lane in the forest with not a village. Why the company reconstructing the north part didn't take south? And the last: S8 looks pretty strange, and abrupts like 30 km apart at a very bad angle indeed. Was it initially planned or there were other choices?


S1- unfortunately not priority at the present. There is already dual carriageway between Myslowice and Bielsko-Biala...
A18- southern part - not a priority at the present. Unfortunately it wasn't reconstructed along with north part. The law has changed in the meantime and old DSU expired...
S8- Originally it was planned to connect Wroclaw with Piotrkow Trybunalski via Belchatow. That concept was changed to present one. Wroclaw is still connected with Warszawa via Lodz and A2.


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## Luki_SL

rakcancer said:


> S1- unfortunately not priority at the present. There is already dual carriageway between Myslowice and Bielsko-Biala...


Have you ever driven this _dual cariageway _to say it`s not priority ?


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## rakcancer

Not priority for government... I would build S1 ASAP if it was up to me


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## belerophon

rakcancer said:


> Not priority for government... I would build S1 ASAP if it was up to me


I drove it in the Summer. But asking at SSC every project would be priority^^
:cheers:


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## Kemo

rakcancer said:


> A18- southern part - not a priority at the present. Unfortunately it wasn't reconstructed along with north part. The law has changed in the meantime and old DSU expired...


It still has a valid construction permit. But it is not a priority and never was.


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## LMB

DannyBoy85 said:


> Hell, the road network has really improved in Poland (compared to my visit *by single car* in 2005).


Yeah, man you've got to visit by a double car. It really improves the perception :lol:


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## DannyBoy85

LMB said:


> Yeah, man you've got to visit by a double car. It really improves the perception :lol:


And crush the other slow cars as well... lol


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## Luki_SL

The S7 expressway contruction, section Ostróda-Miłomłyn: 



DooCharles said:


> foto z https://www.facebook.com/okolicekanaluelblaskiego/posts/1665681223675041


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## ukraroad

Are thare mo contracts or tenders announced at all? It seems too strange that GDDKiA signed or started tendering like more than 350 km in the period btw 12.10-18.11 and since then there is absolutely nothing new. WHAT is that REASON?


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## seszele

^^ there are several tenders ungoing, for example S7 stretches Lubien- Rabka and northbound of Krakow. It just doesn't always happen every particular week, that's all..


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## SRC_100

ukraroad said:


> Are thare mo contracts or tenders announced at all? It seems too strange that GDDKiA signed or started tendering like more than 350 km in the period btw 12.10-18.11 and since then there is absolutely nothing new. WHAT is that REASON?


Strange are just your questions and posts... :hide:


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## ukraroad

Well, i meant why was it so dense around election period?


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## hammersklavier

ukraroad said:


> Well, i meant why was it so dense around election period?


You have three guesses ... and the first two don't count.


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## Blaskovitz

Luki_SL said:


> The S7 expressway contruction, section Ostróda-Miłomłyn:




These pictures look like the 70's!!! :cheers:


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## Eulanthe

And as entirely expected, the director of the GDDKiA has been fired by the government. The official reason is the "need to improve road investments", which we clearly know is utter nonsense. The more frightening part is that it seems also to be connected with the infamous Augustów bypass, so the usual pattern of PiS taking revenge for things that happened nearly 10 years ago is here.

Sigh. Just when we thought we were going to get a good road network...


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## rakcancer

^^
I agree with you but I am not sure if I am allowed to do so on this forum. Expect our posts to be deleted by moderator even if we talk about GDDKiA...


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## sponge_bob

GdKKia is a huge juggernaut by European standards and it will take a full year to steer it in a different direction to where it was heading in 2015. No contracts will be cancelled or varied between now and then. No other agency swallows up as much EU money every year ( and will do from now to 2020 ) and it is trusted to do so in Brussels. 

Best view the sacking as petty politics where the eventual outcome is unknown at this time and move on.


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## mcarling

Eulanthe said:


> Just when we thought we were going to get a good road network...


If the A and S roads now under construction will be completed, the system of A and S roads would then be complete enough to be called a "network". So I think the big question is whether or not contracts will be cancelled.


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## hammersklavier

mcarling said:


> If the A and S roads now under construction will be completed, the system of A and S roads would then be complete enough to be called a "network". So I think the big question is whether or not contracts will be cancelled.


The new boss would have to be a titanic-scale idiot to do that...at this point existing contracts are well in design and build phases, no?

Much more likely we see a pivot in which roads get priority for the next phase. That would be more roads in eastern Poland, I take it?


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## Strzala

S19 Lublin West bypass near junction 'Lublin Sławinek':



DarGog said:


>


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## ChrisZwolle

Is the S2 extension in Warsaw still planned to start this year?


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## Luki_SL

^^There are delays in signing contracts. There is no chance to start contruction works in this year.


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## Eulanthe

hammersklavier said:


> The new boss would have to be a titanic-scale idiot to do that...at this point existing contracts are well in design and build phases, no?
> 
> Much more likely we see a pivot in which roads get priority for the next phase. That would be more roads in eastern Poland, I take it?


Don't discount the possibility of Poles screwing it up for themselves when times are good 

But actually, I suspect we might see some blatant populism - they don't need to build roads in eastern Poland to get votes, but we might see things like the S11 in southern Wielkopolska being tendered as well as an extension of the S5 across Mazury and even some blatant unnecessary building in the Trójmiasto area.


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## Nowax

DTS Gliwice


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## rakcancer

Luki_SL said:


> ^^There are delays in signing contracts. There is no chance to start contruction works in this year.


No signed contract yet? What is the reason?


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## Miguel_PL

mcarling said:


> If the A and S roads now under construction will be completed, the system of A and S roads would then be complete enough to be called a "network". So I think the big question is whether or not contracts will be cancelled.


http://wyborcza.biz/biznes/1,100896...gram-budowy-drog.html?biznes=local#BoxBizLink

^ an article in Polish saying that many contracts have to be cancelled because of the lack of money. The PIS administration says the road building programme approved in September was just a handfull of unrealistic promises. The new era has just begun hno:


----------



## mcarling

Miguel_PL said:


> http://wyborcza.biz/biznes/1,100896...gram-budowy-drog.html?biznes=local#BoxBizLink
> 
> ^ an article in Polish saying that many contracts have to be cancelled because of the lack of money.


... lack of bribe money.


----------



## rakcancer

Nope. Other government, other priorities. Golden age of road construction in Poland is over.


----------



## John Maynard

I can't believe it hno:, there is still a huge lack of motorways in Poland - the network is far from being completed, even a lot of bypasses of smaller villages/towns between big cities aren't existing!

After all, what's matter more than to improve safety by reducing road deaths and tragedies, and to improve the comfort, speed, ease of use for everyone, including for the economy :bash:? 
All of that could be achieved by a proper expressways network :wallbash:.


----------



## Urbanista1

I think the main arteries linking key cities will get built. The Polish people have spoken, well the 19% who voted for PIS, they want a better life, more money and security and maybe less lavish infrastructure. Those in the silent majority who didn't want this but didn't vote can only blame themselves, they have been watching Jaroslaw Kaczynski for years, should know who he is by now.


----------



## Kemo

Contracts for design and construction of S2 motorway (south-eastern part of Warsaw ringroad) have been signed today.


----------



## Kemo

ukraroad said:


> Is there any Ssc.Viacom renovation or it's stuck? I can't see their progress since October 5.


You don't have to complain about it no more 










Full (interactive) version: http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/


----------



## Maciek_CK

Kemo said:


> Contracts for design and construction of S2 motorway (south-eastern part of Warsaw ringroad) have been signed today


When the news hit me, I went like this:


----------



## John Maynard

Urbanista1 said:


> The Polish people have spoken, well the 19% who voted for PIS, they want a better life, more money and security and maybe *less lavish infrastructure*.


I hope that you don't have in mind better roads and a proper motorway network .

Btw., PiS like to take example from Orban, still I cannot see a better life "change" (just like in PL: unemployement plus "low" salaries and a subordinate work culture>high emigration rate, low exchange rate for the Florint, etc.) or a lightening increase on salaries for Hungarian people. Maybe, security is good (migration crisis in mind), but it was already before he came (like in Poland, except for road traffic). I believe though, that PiS is more "populist" than Fidesz (per ex., lowering taxes, but spending more money).


----------



## Urbanista1

don't get me wrong I'm no PIS supporter, but I think road network might get fully built but later, they want to change their priorities to addressing quality of life and demographic crisis, which is definitely a crisis, given how Poles have such an in-born bias against living in Poland. Poles always find or create reasons to emigrate, it's genetic. They have an inferiority complex about living in Poland. Better roads won't change that. If we could root out the negativity in Polish people, maybe this will make them happier than new roads


----------



## Strzala

S19 Lublin West bypass:



> fot. Krzysztof Nalewajko


https://www.facebook.com/gddkia/


----------



## JanVL

*Road safety statistics for November 2015*

*November*

*Number of road accidents*

- 2015: 2.735
- 2014: 2.588
- 2013: 2.989


*Road fatalities*

- 2015: 238
- 2014: 269
- 2013: 293


*Number of wounded*

- 2015: 3.224
- 2014: 3.005
- 2013: 3.595

*January-November*

*Number of road accidents*

- 2015: 29.794
- 2014: 31.585
- 2013: 32.529

*Road fatalities*

- 2015: 2.586
- 2014: 2.869
- 2013: 3.035


*Number of wounded*

- 2015: 36.121
- 2014: 38.509
- 2013: 40.042

http://statystyka.policja.pl/st/ruc...wo-w-ruchu-drogowym-w-ujeciu-miesiecznym.html


----------



## Eulanthe

Miguel_PL said:


> http://wyborcza.biz/biznes/1,100896...gram-budowy-drog.html?biznes=local#BoxBizLink
> 
> ^ an article in Polish saying that many contracts have to be cancelled because of the lack of money. The PIS administration says the road building programme approved in September was just a handfull of unrealistic promises. The new era has just begun hno:


What a surprise. They desperately need cash, and they're willing to destroy everything just to bribe the voters for 4 years. I'm just scared that the next 4 years will inflict so much financial damage that it will take 10 years to recover from.


----------



## John Maynard

Urbanista1 said:


> don't get me wrong I'm no PIS supporter, but I think road network might get fully built but later, they want to change their priorities to addressing quality of life and demographic crisis, which is definitely a crisis, given how Poles have such an in-born bias against living in Poland. Poles always find or create reasons to emigrate, it's genetic. They have an inferiority complex about living in Poland. Better roads won't change that. If we could root out the negativity in Polish people, maybe this will make them happier than new roads


I don't think that this government will improve Polish "inferiority complex" for better. Also, Poles are not the only ones in Central-Eastern Europe to complain, nor to emigrate "en masse". As I said, Hungary has a quite similar party to PiS for years now, and the latter like to take example and claims from the former. 
As for what concerns you most: general people's happiness, looking at international happiness analysis reports, Hungary is on the bottom - Poland is higher: http://worldhappiness.report/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2015/04/WHR15_Sep15.pdf
Furthermore, I don't believe that giving 110 EUR (500 PLN) for a child will "magically" increase one of the lowest fertility rate in the world. Many countries have tried this before, and invested much more than what Poland wants to in this field, with very mitigated results, mostly negative ones. Only France, had a "positive" result, but again they are mostly children from non-European immigrants...
IMHO, the most important for "hapiness" is a strong economy, comprehensive, law ruled and efficiently controlled state and sectors of businesses, without unecessary "harassment and barriers" for their fellow citizens, with a well managed social security and taxes/spendings system. Of course, with a good quality road and motorways network .

Road deaths, on the contrary, affects everyone and everywhere, especially in Poland "top of EU". So, if you lost you're loved ones because of lack of proper infrastructure, or because of the stupid idiots behind wheels - that the current party do not seem to want to fight anyway - your hapiness, like this of your entourage, plunges - I heard lots of tragedies from almost every Pole I met. Not to mention the stress and anger induced by inadapted road infrastructure, that Poland has right now oke:.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ for road deaths it seems whatever is being done is working quite well


> Road fatalities
> 
> - 2015: 2.586
> - 2014: 2.869
> - 2013: 3.035


It seems like a sustained and significant decline annum on annum. Sure, "one is tragedy" but it is not possible for it to go to zero overnight...


----------



## ufonut

S7 Milomyn - Ostroda



DooCharles said:


> foto z https://www.facebook.com/okolicekanaluelblaskiego/posts/1667923353450828


----------



## sponge_bob

Looking at all those photos of Sand across Poland...how do you find and transport the rock base required for all these new S and A roads?


----------



## Surel

sponge_bob said:


> Looking at all those photos of Sand across Poland...how do you find and transport the rock base required for all these new S and A roads?


I am not sure, but I don't think that you need that much rock in fact. Just for the top layers I guess.

What you need is very tight compacting of the sand.


----------



## sponge_bob

Surel said:


> What you need is very tight compacting of the sand.


I think i see it in the first of ufonets S7 photos there. Thanks Surel.


----------



## Urbanista1

Surel said:


> I am not sure, but I don't think that you need that much rock in fact. Just for the top layers I guess.
> 
> What you need is very tight compacting of the sand.


not sure about that you do need rock for stability, sand will liquefy when subjected to vibration over long periods of time.


----------



## macieii

rakcancer said:


> Nope. Other government, other priorities. Golden age of road construction in Poland is over.


Bullshit.


----------



## Strzala

sponge_bob said:


> Looking at all those photos of Sand across Poland...how do you find and transport the rock base required for all these new S and A roads?


We have regions (f.e. świętokrzyskie, dolnoślaskie) in Poland - with many rock resources and mines:

52388829

Rocks are transported by trucks and trains.


----------



## belerophon

macieii said:


> Bullshit.


I like people with so much detailled and precise arguments. People who like to explain and discuss. Clap your hands for this fellow! :applause:


----------



## escaton001

^^
I don't think it's a good place to discuss about politics. Just pure informations about highways in Poland!


----------



## Chris80678

DK8 between Janki and Paszków has become S8 and is open to traffic now :banana: Source: Polish forum


----------



## MichiH

Chris80678 said:


> DK8 between Janki and Paszków has become S8 and is open to traffic now :banana: Source: Polish forum


Was it opened today or yesterday?


----------



## Chris80678

It opened yesterday I believe


----------



## baderman

belerophon said:


> I like people with so much detailled and precise arguments. People who like to explain and discuss. Clap your hands for this fellow! :applause:


I think, that people in Poland are fed up trying to explain other people (from around world) what is going on. Most people from abroad have their opinion based only on media. This informations are very biased, and they're far from truth (simplifications, ommisions, blatant lies, misinterpretations). So, when someone, without real reasons repeats thesis from hostile political agenda, don't be surprised with such answer. Text was a provocative, it got exactly that kind of response, which was expected - short and vulgar. After this, anyone educated by media could deliver statement like yours. Provocation 101. And - I didn't vote on any party in current (or previous) pairlament, so save yourself a comment on this. All posts off-topic, including this, should be removed by mods. [EOT]


----------



## Chris80678

Chris80678 said:


> It opened yesterday I believe


Taken directly from GDDKIA website: 

S8 Opacz-Paszków with connector put into motion

14-12-2015


Drivers can now fully enjoy the 11.5 km long express route from Opacz to Warsaw Janki Paszków as well as the newly built connector to the DK 7 from the node Warsaw Janki to Magdalenka.

The contract was signed in April 2013. It was carried out according to the agreement within 32 months. Investment worth 565.7 million zł and is 
co-financed by the European Union under the Operational Programme Infrastructure and Environment 2007-2013.

6 km of new expressway running from the new Opacz interchange to Janki Warsaw and to Paszków interchange has been opened meaning that the existing DK 8 has been adapted to the parameters of the class "S". 2.5 kilometers of new road (with parameters GP class) connecting the expressway route (from Warsaw Janki) from the DK 7.

This gives us 4 interchanges: Puchały, Warsaw Janki, Paszków and Sekocin. In addition, engineering structures were built, (5 overpasses, 4 bridges, 13 overpasses, 10 passages for animals), plant protection of the environment and road safety.


----------



## ufonut

A4 Rzeszow-Jaroslaw




























More here:

http://www.a4rzeszowjaroslaw.pl/galeria/zdjecia-lotnicze-14-12-2015


----------



## Kanadzie

magnificent motorway 

I always wonder why they build MOP-y in situations like this... surely there are some stacja paliw / petrol stations and McDonald's in the small village to the side of the picture...
Is there any resistance from smaller centres to construction of bypasses and motorways due to reduced commerce internally from through traffic (as was seen broadly in the USA) or is it just as quiet as it seems? (maybe Poles like to drive so fast they favor the autostrada no matter what


----------



## ukraroad

Why is one side of asphalt darker???


----------



## sponge_bob

Only one side is asphalted. The dark stuff is base.


----------



## SRC_100

ukraroad said:


> Why is one side of asphalt darker???


Next you very interested in question :nuts:

but ok, try to answer: because second side asphalt is soiled or it just isn`t asphalted yet.


----------



## Eulanthe

Kanadzie said:


> magnificent motorway
> 
> I always wonder why they build MOP-y in situations like this... surely there are some stacja paliw / petrol stations and McDonald's in the small village to the side of the picture...
> Is there any resistance from smaller centres to construction of bypasses and motorways due to reduced commerce internally from through traffic (as was seen broadly in the USA) or is it just as quiet as it seems? (maybe Poles like to drive so fast they favor the autostrada no matter what


A lot of these exist rather for truck drivers than cars, especially in places closer to the border where local traffic is very light.


----------



## Kemo

Construction of DTŚ in downtown Gliwice is about to finish. The road should be opened in March 2016.

Tunnel entrance


----------



## Rombi

How they got to idea to build such a thing in the city center nowadays in XXI century?


----------



## Strzala

Kemo said:


> Construction of DTŚ in downtown Gliwice is about to finish. The road should be opened in March 2016.
> 
> Tunnel entrance


Noise barrier on tunell entrance wall:hmm: Please tell me why?

*
S19 junction Sokołów Małopolski:*


----------



## mcarling

Rombi said:


> How they got to idea to build such a thing in the city center nowadays in XXI century?


Why not? Separating the vehicular traffic from the pedestrian streets is a good thing.



Strzala said:


> Noise barrier on tunell entrance wall:hmm: Please tell me why?[/youtube]


Good question. Maybe to keep cows from falling in? :lol: I really don't have a better theory than that. Below grade roads normally cause relatively little noise at grade.


----------



## Kanadzie

Rombi said:


> How they got to idea to build such a thing in the city center nowadays in XXI century?


The city centre is far away, in Katowice :lol:


----------



## Innsertnamehere

mcarling said:


> Why not? Separating the vehicular traffic from the pedestrian streets is a good thing.


Inner city expressways have well documented negative effects on urban environments. The few that haven't wreaked major damage to cities are the ones that were largely built through adjacent industrial areas and didn't rip up residential neighborhoods.


----------



## mcarling

Innsertnamehere said:


> Inner city expressways have well documented negative effects on urban environments.


At grade and above grade urban expressways, yes. Tunnelled urban expressways, not that I'm aware. Where is this documentation?


----------



## geogregor

mcarling said:


> At grade and above grade urban expressways, yes. Tunnelled urban expressways, not that I'm aware. Where is this documentation?


The problem with Gliwice is that the tunnel is very short. Outside the tunnel section the road looks like this:








It is just a few hundred yards from the strict city centre :bash:

It looks bad. really bad. Total priority for cars in planning hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Gliwice Wall...


----------



## sponge_bob

geogregor said:


> It is just a few hundred yards from the strict city centre :bash:
> 
> It looks bad. really bad. Total priority for cars in planning hno:


Total priority for sound barriers you mean. That barrier is utterly utterly ridiculous, surely (semi) burying the road would be more sensible than that thing.


----------



## rpc08

Poland must be dreamland for grafitters. I don't know how popular the grafitti/underground culture is there, but I'd be seriously surprised if all those barriers weren't all painted some months after its installation.

And honestly, I hate grafitti, but I think I'd prefer to live with multiple colour paintings and monumentally-dimensioned rude words written in front of my house rather than a monochromatic wall like that. That's as bad as it gets...


----------



## Sponsor

mcarling said:


> Why not? Separating the vehicular traffic from the pedestrian streets is a good thing.


Yes. On motorways in the countryside or suburban rings. Not in the city centre.

This route is total nonsense. I still cannot believe it's happening in XXI century. I bet there is no such construction going on anywhere in EU.


----------



## geogregor

The route would be fine (just about) if they extended the tunnel.


----------



## Luki_SL

I think it won`t happen...


----------



## Kemo

rpc08 said:


> I'd be seriously surprised if all those barriers weren't all painted some months after its installation.


Yeah, they are already covered with text like "XYZ is a f***er" etc.

____________________________________________


Western bypass of Nowy Sącz was opened today. 6 km long, two roundabouts, several viaducts and bridges. What is out of ordinary is that construction of this road took only *6 months*.




























More photos: http://rdn.pl/?p=30054


----------



## geogregor

Luki_SL said:


> I think it won`t happen...


Of course it won't. Now it's to late and Gliwice are stuck with this shit for decades.

The only hope is changing the noise barriers for some better design once they need replacing in a few years..


----------



## hammersklavier

Looking at the highway on Google Maps, I agree it's a bad road. It cuts directly between downtown and the train station, several blocks were lost, and it just ends to the west of town.

It's less a road and more a giant middle finger to the town.


----------



## Kanadzie

John Maynard said:


> That is so Poland hno:. They built a "Berlin wall" between themselves :lol::nuts:!
> 
> Just because the law says you to with completely retarted and stupid bureaucrats on the top...and generous bribes this sound wall company has been generously distributing for years :bash:. Third World in its splendour :applause:


Not really, there are no sound barriers in Third World and control of access on roads is generally not existant :lol:

To be honest it looks like the sound barrier is the bigger problem. If they used no sound barrier or the transparent glass type (e.g. like towards central Krakow) it would be fine IMO


----------



## rakcancer

I thought that strict noise protection law (the strictest law in Europe) was already loosen few years ago and there is no need to built such a monsters... I was wrong...


----------



## geogregor

rakcancer said:


> I thought that strict noise protection law (the strictest law in Europe) was already loosen few years ago and there is no need to built such a monsters... I was wrong...


The barriers are down right ugly but there is general problem with this route. It slices through center of the town. Outside the short tunnel section it really separates north and south of city centre, especially east of the tunnel. 

The tunnel section should simply be longer. If tunnel was to expensive the roadway should be lowered and lots of bridges built over it. 

I-670 south of downtown Kansas City is example of what I have in mind.

For the moment the new highway cuts town in two, like here:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, to be fair, railroads also cut Gliwice in two like the expressway does. But they generally don't come with the incredibly ugly sound barriers that Poland uses on its highways. I mean, nearly all of these sound barriers are identically, some are taller than others, but they seem to generally come from the same producer.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

^^ Railways were also built 100+ years ago (at least in city centres). You wouldn't build an at-grade railway through dense parts of the city today.


----------



## mcarling

Rebasepoiss said:


> You wouldn't build an at-grade railway through dense parts of the city today.


I wouldn't build an at-grade railway through dense parts of a city, but many cities are building idiotic trams rather than intelligent light metros (like the Toulouse metro, for example). Penny wise, pound foolish.


----------



## John Maynard

Kanadzie said:


> Not really, there are no sound barriers in Third World and control of access on roads is generally not existant :lol:
> 
> To be honest it looks like the sound barrier is the bigger problem. If they used no sound barrier or the transparent glass type (e.g. like towards central Krakow) it would be fine IMO


It doesn't matter if it's a sound barrier, fact is it's just an ugly 6 meters high wall. By the way, what an idea to built such wall in downtown cutting streets and neighborhoods :nuts:. Would have been preferable and much more desirable for everyone to built the new road in a trench (recovered or not) - like Warsaw's Trasa Łazienkowska in the 1970's :yes: - or a "box" at least with a green promenade over:










Even in poor countries "separation" walls aren't that high and they tend to be painted usually:


----------



## John Maynard

Rebasepoiss said:


> Railways were also built 100+ years ago (at least in city centres). You wouldn't build an at-grade railway through dense parts of the city today.


As a matter of fact, these "old" railways are normaly elevated or undeground in densely populated centre areas. At-grade railways are extremely rare, especially in bigger cities downtowns.


----------



## Richard_P

ChrisZwolle said:


> Well, to be fair, railroads also cut Gliwice in two like the expressway does.


 Railways cutting cities in half are simply a myth. Gliwice is a prime example of that as during construction station was build on green fields 1 km from the city centre which documents this map but with railways came rapid development and two decades later maps show already densely build up area. So it was quite the opposite - the city overgrown railways which spurred its development. Unfortunately we can't say the same thing about urban motorways which tend to have destructive influence on urban structure.



> But they generally don't come with the incredibly ugly sound barriers that Poland uses on its highways.


 Don't worry sooner or later railways will have to build sound barriers also around this station which will be similarly ugly to the road ones


----------



## ChrisZwolle

No, that's just using two different yardsticks. Whether the city has overgrown a corridor, or if a corridor has been built through an existing city eventually ends up being essentially the same thing; a corridor through a city (whether road or rail).


----------



## John Maynard

ChrisZwolle said:


> No, that's just using two different yardsticks. Whether the city has overgrown a corridor, or if a corridor has been built through an existing city eventually ends up being essentially the same thing; a corridor through a city (whether road or rail).


Okay... you seem fulfilled? :nuts:


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ ^^ I disagree with such covered roads with fake grass on top... tunnel is good for a purpose (e.g. overpass, buildings) but random park is just invitation for urban decay kind of result (e.g. Viger Park in Montreal over A-720 freeway)


----------



## hammersklavier

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ ^^ I disagree with such covered roads with fake grass on top... tunnel is good for a purpose (e.g. overpass, buildings) but random park is just invitation for urban decay kind of result (e.g. Viger Park in Montreal over A-720 freeway)


Square Viger might suffer from many problems (being placed randomly over an expressway instead of intelligently doesn't help), but what really does it in is its own failed urban design.


John Maynard said:


> As a matter of fact, these "old" railways are normaly elevated or undeground in densely populated centre areas. At-grade railways are extremely rare, especially in bigger cities downtowns.


That's not ... entirely true.

For example, in Philadelphia, up to about the turn of the century, the major rail corridors were all at grade level. It was a combination of constructing new corridors and grade-separating existing ones -- which kept both the railroads and the city preoccupied for some thirty years and was never fully completed -- that led to the city's current rail net.


ChrisZwolle said:


> No, that's just using two different yardsticks. Whether the city has overgrown a corridor, or if a corridor has been built through an existing city eventually ends up being essentially the same thing; a corridor through a city (whether road or rail).


On one hand, a corridor is a corridor, and major transportation corridors have clear, marked detrimental impacts on the neighborhoods they run through. (The lone exception to this rule appears to be bike corridors, as major bike corridors are often treated as linear parks.)

On the other, there is something somewhat ahistoric about arguing that highway and rail corridors should be treated in like manner. Rail corridors were, as a rule, generally _not_ forcibly rammed through built-up areas; the location of major terminals like the Gares d'est et du nord in Paris, or King's Cross and Euston in London, reflect the edge of the conurbation when those termini were built. This is because early railroads were private enterprises, and the cost of acquiring those kinds of corridors would have been prohibitive.

By contrast, motorways have long been publicly-financed and -built, and because of that, have access to tools and funding streams that were historically unavailable to railroads. The PRR couldn't use eminent domain to condemn and evict owners from property when it built Penn Station; its only recourse was to purchase the property at whatever the owner cared to sell at. But because motorways were state-sanctioned projects that had these kinds of powers, they could be (and in the U.S., often _were_) used to condemn entire neighborhoods at a swath, ramming through the urban fabric, eating space with widespread adverse impacts.

From a historical perspective, rail corridors were not as impactful as the city grew _around_ them. When they were built, they were, by and large, beyond the edge of the conurbation. They're usually also much narrower. Highway corridors instead tended to divide existing neighborhoods, creating or exacerbating downward trends, and generally requiring more time for the city to heal around them. Even in D.C. the city has yet to truly heal from the impact of its major highway corridors (though it's getting there).

Usually Europeans are thought of as more enlightened. Unfortunately, the Poles seem to be working from the Americans' guidebook What Not To Do.


----------



## ukraroad

About railways, I doubt it. In Kyiv entire neighbourhoods are divided because Soviets built too much rail which now rusts. There are also entire garage sectors, which are now mostly in mould:bash:. These are the criminal sectors and are notorious for a full spectre of crimes committed. I guess a badly managed road is not that evil as bad rail. It just rips the city apart. Gliwice is very unlucky to get those plans, so they'd rather spend extra 60-100 mln zl to lighten the effects. I WISH NO BIG CITY HAD AT-GRADE RAIL!!! Btw, what is up with Mszczonow bypass(S8)? It is an expwy which isn't expwy for some unknown reason. Uh??


----------



## Kemo

ukraroad said:


> Btw, what is up with Mszczonow bypass(S8)? It is an expwy which isn't expwy for some unknown reason. Uh??


The reason is simply unknown. Works on this section have finished over 2 years ago.


----------



## Richard_P

ukraroad said:


> About railways, I doubt it. In Kyiv entire neighbourhoods are divided because Soviets built too much rail which now rusts. There are also entire garage sectors, which are now mostly in mould:bash:. These are the criminal sectors and are notorious for a full spectre of crimes committed. I guess a badly managed road is not that evil as bad rail. It just rips the city apart. Gliwice is very unlucky to get those plans, so they'd rather spend extra 60-100 mln zl to lighten the effects. I WISH NO BIG CITY HAD AT-GRADE RAIL!!!


 Well, I sincerely doubt that someone with nick "ukraroad" will write anything positive about railways not to mention to pose neutral judgment. Fact that Ukraine is falling in love with cars and discards railways doesn't mean that western countries are thinking the same - it is quite opposite, the west is reinventing railways while Poland is stuck somewhere in the middle learning in accelerated pace the downturns of road traffic and trying to pardon with rail transport before it's too late. But not to worry 10-20 years and Ukraine will face the same problems :cheers2:


----------



## LMB

ChrisZwolle said:


> No, that's just using two different yardsticks. Whether the city has overgrown a corridor, or if a corridor has been built through an existing city eventually ends up being essentially the same thing; a corridor through a city (whether road or rail).


To broaden the scope here a bit:
I'm not sure if it is the case with this one, but those "corridors" were built mostly in the 70's. Some are very useful, despite being eyesores. They were built according to bold plans, sometimes quite drastic. In a sense, those corridors are gold. A lot of "new" construction, from the EU era, have been the extensions to them. No way you could do something so drastic from the scratch nowadays. As much as I despise them, I've got to admit that commies didn't care about NIMBY, they built within a few years. 

Now as a Dutchman you know the value of non-NIMBY construction, don't you? 

To sum it up, those ugly barriers are an addition to IMHO often valuable developments that would be impossible nowadays.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Is this map correct that DK12 used to run across what is now DK18 / A18?


----------



## DSzumaher

Yes, correct in the 1990s.


----------



## bewu1

Very old map. There isn't even Zary's bypass the first part of which was finished in 1998.


----------



## Luki_SL

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is this map correct that DK12 used to run across what is now DK18 / A18?


It`s road numbering system - before 2000.


----------



## Strzala

S19 Lublin West Bypass:



DarGog said:


>





DarGog said:


>


----------



## Strzala

S7 Cracow East bypass:






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Yo2ZfFi0zs&feature=youtu.be


----------



## Don Vito KurDeBalanz

One more picture of DTŚ in Gliwice. That's horrible :nuts:.


----------



## mcarling

^^
It needs a lid.


----------



## belerophon

Or an explosion.

At my university they "renovated" a building of bad concrete made in communist era. Well now they made all the walls black, only the floors white. Wou know how it looks, if a crowd of students enters in winter. It is more ugly than before.

So the joke goes like: If its closed at christmas, the best, someone could do is to open the gas in the basement and place a huge candle in a higher floor... 

Some things are beyond repair....


----------



## Rombi

I ask where is public prosecutor. 
The mayor of Gliwice will burn in hell anyway. ^^


----------



## Luki_SL

^^Driving the DTŚ you can`t see that buildings   The same situation


----------



## John Maynard

^^ Fortunately, Polish poor housing and real conditions of living are voluntarily hidden to the Western tourists and investors driving along DTŚ, at least - thanks to the "Wall". We just saved the erroneous and heavily embellished view of the "land of milk and honey" and "Green Island" propaganda myth specially designed for them! Phew! That was a close one!
After all, the mayor of Gliwice was not that crazy at the end.

:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## ukraroad

New expressway comtract was signed on Dec 18. S2 to Lubelska was signed for completion till Aug 2020, according to SSC.
WHY SO LONG???


----------



## geogregor

ukraroad said:


> New expressway comtract was signed on Dec 18. S2 to Lubelska was signed for completion till Aug 2020, according to SSC.
> WHY SO LONG???


If I'm not wrong it goes mostly through heavily urbanized area, involves tunnel and bridge over the Wisla River.


----------



## ukraroad

DTS number 2: version Warsaw?


----------



## Kemo

geogregor said:


> If I'm not wrong it goes mostly through heavily urbanized area, involves tunnel and bridge over the Wisla River.


And it needs to be designed first.


----------



## ukraroad

^^But I guess that is the job of DSU and not when the contract is signed, isn't it?


----------



## SRC_100

ukraroad said:


> New expressway comtract was signed on Dec 18. S2 to Lubelska was signed for completion till Aug 2020, according to SSC.
> WHY SO LONG???


1. Design&built project.
2. Long tunnel under Ursynów district.
3. Long bridge over Wisła river.
4. Highly urbanized area with plenty of underground installations to relocate.



ukraroad said:


> DTS number 2: version Warsaw?


No, it`s not.



ukraroad said:


> ^^But I guess that is the job of DSU and not when the contract is signed, isn't it?


DSU has been issued long time ago. But after design completion, contractor must submit an application for ZnRID (Permission for the Implementation of Road Investment)


----------



## ukraroad

^^But that is not design but the beginning of actual construction. Still, I'm really looking forward to seeing the shiny asphalt instead of hour-long jams to Minsk Mazowiecki from Pruszkow(I've been twice to the area, both times with awful traffic).


----------



## SRC_100

^^
**** me man! If know better why the hell you ask?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Once again: 3 contractors first of all must prepare proper design for this 3 easter stretches of S2, next they have to get ZnRIDs based on the designs adn after this they could start constructions!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Capito?!?!?!?!! Understand?!?!?! ви розумієте?!?!?!? Вы понимаете?!?!?! verstehen?!?!?!


----------



## ukraroad

I got it. Well, I wouldn't like you to yell on me. I thought it was managed already. Be calm.


----------



## ukraroad

Wtf has S19 so big a curve around Białystok? The motorway doesn't make sense at all like this, see https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/mapa-stanu-budowy-drog_podlaskie


----------



## keokiracer

It's because there's a massive protected old forest to the north of Białystok


----------



## Ypenhof

Good news! A question: does anyone know something more about the timetable for reconstructing the remaining S8 section between Wyszków and Zambrów?


----------



## Kemo

^^
Sections in Mazowsze voivodship are scheduled to be completed in 2018. Sections in Podlaskie voividship in 2017.


----------



## ukraroad

Kemo said:


> Construction permit (ZnRID) was issued for a section of Marki bypass (*S8* motorway), profile 2x3.
> 
> S8: Drewnica (S17) - Kobyłka 5.5km (January 2016 to July 2017) – project – map


Do you believe it will be completed in 17 months?


----------



## Kemo

It is hard but possible. A similar stretch of S8 on the other side of Warsaw was completed in 16 months.


----------



## Maciek_CK

*S7 Chęciny - Jędrzejów*

S7 Chęciny (Kielce-South) - Jędrzejów (Jędrzejów-North) aerial photos from last month. I took the liberty of making a map featuring approximate locations.










1. Kielce-South









2.









3. Black Nida River









4. Tokarnia interchange









5. Nida River









6.









7. Brzegi interchange









8. Smyków rest area









9. Mnichów interchange









10.









11. Podlesie rest area









12. wildlife crossing









source and more: http://www.checiny-jedrzejow.drogas7.pl/zdjecia-lotnicze-grudzien-2015/


----------



## ukraroad

Interesting, why do you think the govts said there is no sense to build S8 to Suwalki(AADT about 13000)? And prefer S16, whose AADT is lower than 9,500?


----------



## Luki_SL

ukraroad said:


> Interesting, why do you think the govts said there is no sense to build S8 to Suwalki(AADT about 13000)? And prefer S16, whose AADT is lower than 9,500?


Have you any source ? :nuts:


----------



## ukraroad

_skrócenie drogi ekspresowej S8 do Białegostoku – Choroszczy (rezygnacja z odcinka Białystok – Suwałki, odcinek Suwałki – Budzisko włączony w drogę S61),_
From:https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autostrady_i_drogi_ekspresowe_w_Polsce
If not sufficient:http://dziennikustaw.gov.pl/du/2015/1734/1 There click on the 'plik 1' to see the document in Polish, which, I assume, seeing your location, you know very well.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^It`s old decisions taken ~10 years . S8 Augustów-Białystok was replaced by S61.


----------



## ukraroad

Luki_SL said:


> ^^It`s old decisions taken ~10 years . S8 Augustów-Białystok was replaced by S61.


I mean Białystok-Augustów


----------



## SRC_100

^^
S61 solve all problems, because this road takes 90% traffic from DK8 b/n Białystok and Augustów (S61). So in this case there is no need to build S-roads there.


----------



## JanVL

*Road safety statistics for December 2015 & 2015 complete*

*December*

*Number of road accidents*

- 2015: 3.045
- 2014: 3.246
- 2013: 3.146


*Road fatalities*

- 2015: 318
- 2014: 305
- 2013: 286


*Number of wounded*

- 2015: 3.481
- 2014: 3.832
- 2013: 3.832

*January-December*

*Number of road accidents*

- 2015: 32.529 (- 7.2%)
- 2014: 34.875 (- 2.5%)
- 2013: 35.752

*Road fatalities*

- 2015: 2.824 (- 12.7%)
- 2014: 3.183 (- 4.7%)
- 2013: 3.334


*Number of wounded*

- 2015: 39.345 (- 7.8%)
- 2014: 42.408 (- 3.7%)
- 2013: 43.963

http://statystyka.policja.pl/st/ruc...wo-w-ruchu-drogowym-w-ujeciu-miesiecznym.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

2824 fatalities in 2015 would give a rate of circa 73 per 1 million inhabitants. Similar to Belgium in 2012.


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> 2824 fatalities in 2015 would give a rate of circa 73 per 1 million inhabitants. Similar to Belgium in 2012.


Things are definitely heading in the right direction.
Still, some distance to catch up with Scandinavia or British Isles


----------



## ukraroad

They would rather do that. Hooray to those!


----------



## rakcancer

*S7*

First stage of tender for S7 near Rabka in southern Poland. 3 km contract with over 2km long twin tunnels. The cheapest offer from Astaldi-Italy:





source:
http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/20988...edzy-Naprawa-i-Skomielna-Biala-zlozylo-6-firm


----------



## John Maynard

> *December*
> 
> *Road fatalities*
> 
> - 2015: *318*
> - 2014: 305
> - 2013: *286*
> 
> *January-December*
> 
> *Road fatalities*
> 
> - 2015: *2.824* (- 12.7%)
> - 2014: 3.183 (- 4.7%)
> - 2013: 3.334


There is still a long way to catch up :nuts:: in Switzerland, there was 243 road fatalities in 2014, despite being only 4 times less populated :bash:.

Sadly enough, there is a sharp increase in road death for December!
Police must be more strict strict during the feasts, that's an evidence keep repeating for years, but inaction emerged victorious each time.


----------



## ukraroad

John Maynard said:


> There is still a long way to catch up :nuts:: in Switzerland, there was 243 road fatalities in 2014, despite being only 4 times less populated :bash:.
> 
> Sadly enough, there is a sharp increase in road death for December!
> Police must be more strict strict during the feasts, that's an evidence keep repeating for years, but inaction emerged victorious each time.


Not everybody is yet ready for winter, so it comes I think. Plus somebody forgets that "black ice" persists


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Polish motorway programme has paid off in terms of safety. Between 2010 and 2015, a large volume of new motorways opened to traffic, and during the same timespan, the relative fatality rate (deaths per 1 million people) declined by 30%.


----------



## ukraroad

I wish there were any plans of S8 to Kudowa-Zdroj to be connected with D11


----------



## Proterra

Blackraven said:


> Wow, it looks like one can drive between Warsaw and Katowice in under 3 hours (via S8 and DK1 Roadway).
> 
> That's not too bad imho


That's been for a while already. Made Nowy Targ once from Warsaw in 3h 20 using that road.



ukraroad said:


> About roads: S47 to Zakopane is also a simply wonderful decision, there are sometimes even traffic jams in the entrance to the town.


I've never heard of that, the only thing I've heard of is S47 to roughly where Color Park is going to be at the entrance to Szaflary. 



Kemo said:


> ???
> If they build S47 to Zakopane, the only change will be that traffic jam will occupy two lanes instead of one :nuts:


If they build S47 all the way down to Zakopane, it would just turn Zakopane into more of a parking lot than it already is. If they're smart, you would just build a huge parking garage opposite from Color Park where the S47 is supposed to end now on the entrance to Szaflary, make a stop for the train Nowy Targ-Zakopane, and start running trains between the two every half hour or so.

Charge 10 PLN per day for parking, and this will also allow two adults and two kids to use the train between Nowy Targ and Zakopane. One could even make it more attractive by allowing people with this ticket use of public transportation in the whole of Podhale for reduced fares.


----------



## ukraroad

^^Well there is one for Malopolska. Your idea is wonderful: maybe 9000 lots for parking, and as I expect in winter they gonna be occupied all, they'll make a 900000 zl/day(but I think 15 zl is fine, or 2 zl per hour).
I mean the AADT to Zakopane is huge.


----------



## Proterra

ukraroad said:


> ^^Well there is one for Malopolska. Your idea is wonderful: maybe 9000 lots for parking, and as I expect in winter they gonna be occupied all, they'll make a 900000 zl/day(but I think 15 zl is fine, or 2 zl per hour).
> I mean the AADT to Zakopane is huge.


Maybe, but the idea should not be to maximize profit, but to minimize loss of quality of life for the population of Podhale. I would like to see something like this to be as affordable as possible while still making enough money to pay for the extra rail services between Nowy Targ (or maybe even Rabka) and Zakopane.

I just think that creating a freeway all the way down to Zakopane would be a horribly stupid idea, as it would only draw more road traffic into a small city with not much space to expand or deal with this traffic.


----------



## ukraroad

I got it. Still there are trains evem from Warsaw


----------



## seszele

Environmental decision has been issued on north Krakow ring:











red- regular route
blue- tunnel
green- noise barrier

11,6 km long, 4 tunnels. Not sure if it would follow S or GP standard, but anyway collision-free.

Although there is no financing for this project yet- it is a mile stone on the long way to save north of the city from a lot of transit.
Let's hope they will find a source of financing for this, so we may connect A4 from Katowice to S7 to Warsaw in a couple of years..


----------



## ukraroad

There is no need to connect A4 and S7 via that S7 bypass(A4 complete), but still :bananas:! I hate those traffic jams on Opolska


----------



## Luki_SL

ukraroad said:


> There is no need to connect A4 and S7 via that S7 bypass(A4 complete),


Are you the major road planner in Poland ? :nuts:
Have you made any simulations if you can say there is no need to build this road :hm:


----------



## ukraroad

seszele said:


> Environmental decision has been issued on north Krakow ring:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...so we may connect A4 from Katowice to S7 to Warsaw in a couple of years..


Serious? Do you think I am that stupid to say that this road is rubbish? For the purpose I quoted, there will be A4/S7. I appreciate the decision of GDDKiA to build the road, as I said I hate that traffic jams on Opolska. You must have misunderstood me.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^It's not GDDKiA road, it's Malopolskie Voivodeship road project


----------



## seszele

ukraroad said:


> Serious? Do you think I am that stupid to say that this road is rubbish? For the purpose I quoted, there will be A4/S7. I appreciate the decision of GDDKiA to build the road, as I said I hate that traffic jams on Opolska. You must have misunderstood me.



For the sake of facts:

1. GDKKiA hasn't decided yet about construction nor the necessary financing. Long way to go.

2. The connection you described is rougly 30km longer. That's crazy amounts spent on gasoline everyday for additional km, more monies for viatoll and a lot of extratime. Most trucks will never sacrifice all above for the environmental purposes, as they are paid by hours and not by environmental awaraness level


----------



## ukraroad

_Usually_, if any road institution issues DSU, it will pass up to 3-4 years there will be tender. Still, you are right. If everything goes smooth, we can see one bypassing Krakow by the northern side by this road somewhere in 2025 or later. @seszele: totally agree with you. Sorry for saying s***


----------



## ukraroad

seszele said:


> Not sure if it would follow S or GP standard, but anyway collision-free.


It will be GP standard. See https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/81380146/mapka-igorsel.png


----------



## Kemo

^^
Sometimes there is no difference between GP and S.
Which is also the case on the existing section (signed DK94) https://www.google.pl/maps/@50.1164...4!1sh-qyYN4JlOkLh-8_V0sNCw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
It formally is a GP class road, but could be as well signed S.


----------



## SRC_100

Kemo said:


> It formally is a GP class road, but could be as well signed S.


or motorway as well


----------



## rakcancer

GP standard only because town of Zielonki opposed expressway standard as I remember. Similar situation like in case of S2 in Warsaw. Originally it supposed to be A2. The same brainwash by some local politics that it will be more quiet and less pollution made that road standard has been degraded...


----------



## seszele

^^

well actually community of Zielonki (gmina Zielonki), but not a town.
AFAIK Zielonki are all for this investment, as there are over 2000 firms in the area, also because the number of residents has doubled in last 20 years. and all of them spent around 1 hour in a morning traffic jams. They indeed protested when there were plans not to use the 40 yo reserve for the road, but rather completely new route dividing this large settlement in two. And the latter was a condition from GDKKiA in order to design a transit expwy. 

But now there is a tunnel designed in this location, so I guess everybody is happy with it 


Anyway some more detailed info regarding northern ring of Krakow:

Parameters according to Voivodship of Malopolska shall be typical for an expressway (S):

3 exits: (1) DW 794, (2) – z DK7 in Węgrzce, (3) – Batowice; 2x3, 3,5 m.
total tunnel length: 2,71 km (1,91 and 0,8km)

Traffic intenisty estimateded: 40-50K 

On 13th of January GDKKiA has sent a letter requesting details on projected road, as preparation for design and construction may be initialized.
It does not mean that GDKKiA would definitely retake this project and take care of it from now on, but there is a chance at least.


ATM investment is on a provision list of investment priorities (so called Territorial Contract) signed between Central goverment and Voivodship authorities for years 2014-2023 (that is depending on free financial resources and readiness for construction as well)
Anyway the next stage is as usual contruction design and getting ZRID (permissions for execution of the road investment) after that.

http://www.rynekinfrastruktury.pl/wiadomosci/rzad-czy-samorzad--kto-domknie-krakowski-ring-52527.html


----------



## Strzala

Lublin West Bypass (S19) :


----------



## ukraroad

seszele said:


> 3 exits: (1) DW 794, (2) – z DK7 in Węgrzce, (3) – Batowice; 2x3, 3,5 m.
> total tunnel length: 2,71 km (1,91 and 0,8km)
> 
> Traffic intenisty estimateded: 40-50K


 Are there four tunnels or 2 only? According to the plan I saw 4...


----------



## ukraroad

Btw, the cost of construction is predicted at 1,8 bln zl(ca. 410€ mln, about 35,75€ mln/km). Relatively expensive, as the same Warsaw bypass will be constructed at 31.7€ mln, even though it has a long tunnel. Also, do the following names of the companies have good reputation in Europe(those are the constructors of the bypass): Astaldi S.p.A(western part with the tunnel), Gulermak Agir Sanayi Inssat ve Taahhut A.S.(central), and Warbud S.A.(eastern)?


----------



## seszele

^^
^^

I guess the two minor ones were not included in the stats


----------



## rakcancer

^^
Not so soon.


----------



## rakcancer

*New pics from construction of S5-bypass of Gniezno:*
Source and more pictures:
http://moje-gniezno.pl/artykuly/album/3595/droga-ekspresowa-s5-rosnie-w-oczach.html


----------



## RipleyLV

Blaskovitz said:


> http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/nowa-mapa.png


Now the younger age is experiencing the 'autobahnization' that was done in Germany, France, Italy, etc.


----------



## Kemo

Construction of 2nd carriageway of Międzyrzecz bypass (S3 motorway)


----------



## Luki_SL

A contract has been signed today for construction the second carriageway (Lubuskie) of S3 expressway, section Niedoradz - Nowa Sól.

Contractor : Budimex 

Contract length is 22 months excluding winter months. Completion date - August 2018.


----------



## Kemo

^^
Lubelska? :nuts: Maybe you meant Lubuska?

S3: Niedoradz - Nowa Sól-South 17.3km (March 2016 to August 2018) [2nd c/w] – project – map



Blaskovitz said:


> <map of Polish highways>


This map has also an English version:
http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/nowa-mapa_en.png


----------



## rakcancer

*S7*-Eastern bypass of Krakow. Bridge over Wisla river:




podkoscielny said:


> 29.01.2016


----------



## rakcancer

*S5* - North of Wroclaw:



Kazusik said:


> c.d.
> _TG w km 145+000 - warstwy nasypu przed obiektem WD-35 (w tle za WD-35 WMB na MOP w m. Wisznia Mała, kier. na Wrocław)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _TG w km 147+500 - nasypy oraz zasypki przed przepustami (kier. na Wrocław)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _TG w km 148+800 (tuż za WD-37) - warstwy nasypu oraz droga technologiczna (ok. m. Ligota Piękna, kier. na Wrocław)
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _TG w km 150+000 - warstwy podbudowy oraz odsączające (rejon w. Kryniczno, kier. na Poznań)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Węzeł Kryniczno łącznica N5,N6_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _TG w km 151+800 - prace przy wykonaniu półmateraca geosyntetycznego (w dali w. Kryniczno, kier. na Poznań)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _TG - km 153+200 - warstwa podbudowy z kruszywa niezwiązanego na jezdni prawej, drenaż w pasie rozdziału (odc. pomiędzy Krynicznem a Psarami)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _TG w km 154+000 - warstwy podbudowy z kruszywa niezwiązanego z przejazdem awaryjnym, drenaż w pasie rozdziału oraz warstwy nasypów w głębi (kier. na Poznań)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _TG w km 155+200 - półmaterac geosyntetyczny (po lewej Psary, w tle widoczny wykopy pod podpory WS-40, kier. na Poznań)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _TG w km 155+150 - warstwy nasypu przed planowanym obiektem WS 40 (W dali filary/podpory WS-41, kier. na Wrocław)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Węzeł Widawa (Wrocław) - łącznice W1,W2, za AOW/A8 nasyp przed MS 41, hałdy materiałów wzdłóż AOW (kier. na Poznań)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Węzeł Widawa - łącznica W1 nad rondem, po prawej przed AOW nasyp łącznicy W2, poniżej ronda podpory WD-44 łącznicy W3 (w prawo leci DK5 na Poznań pod AOW/A8)_


----------



## rakcancer

Can someone tell me if that short stretch of S5 around Ostroda is part of S7 contract or this is separate entity?


----------



## zakrzemarski

AFAIK it's a part of S7 contract.


----------



## Eulanthe

Just looking at the updated map, there are some things that come immediately to mind.

1) Why on earth is Szczecinek being bypassed over an extension of the S11 towards Sroda Wlkp./Oborniki? Traffic is exasperating on both of those sections, and far worse than through Szczecinek.

2) What's with that little bit of DK2 at Świecko with the environmental plan approved? Is there something new planned there, and if so, why? The current road is fine...

3) Wouldn't it have made much more sense to build the S10 from Bydgoszcz to Toruń rather than the S5 from Bydgoszcz to the A1? It would allow a continuous high quality road connection from Gdańsk-Toruń-Bydgoszcz-Poznań, and it's only about 30km longer.


----------



## rakcancer

Eulanthe said:


> Just looking at the updated map, there are some things that come immediately to mind.
> 
> 1) Why on earth is Szczecinek being bypassed over an extension of the S11 towards Sroda Wlkp./Oborniki? Traffic is exasperating on both of those sections, and far worse than through Szczecinek.


Not sure what you mean? What Szczecinek has to do with other extension of S11? Anyway whole stretch of S11 south of Poznan should be a secondary priority since there is so much left to finish on S5, S7, S8 and S3 and even A1.


Eulanthe said:


> What's with that little bit of DK2 at Świecko with the environmental plan approved? Is there something new planned there, and if so, why? The current road is fine...


Technically it is not a motorway. There is a speed limit because of some leftover after custom buildings just before border with Germany. There is a new variant of adjusting road to motorway standard. 

Check this link: https://www.docdroid.net/p8kmtUu/i1.pdf.html
Variant 1 (blue) is the one that is going to be implemented.


Eulanthe said:


> Wouldn't it have made much more sense to build the S10 from Bydgoszcz to Toruń rather than the S5 from Bydgoszcz to the A1? It would allow a continuous high quality road connection from Gdańsk-Toruń-Bydgoszcz-Poznań, and it's only about 30km longer.


S10 between Bydgoszcz and Torun would be very welcomed however it should never be intended to replace S5 - shortest connection between Tricity,sea ports and western Poland and Germany. Besides S5 hopefully not in very distance future will be extended from Grudziadz towards Olsztyn.


----------



## Kemo

DTŚ East (section Katowice - Mysłowice - Jaworzno) is getting more likely to be built in the next few years 

Too bad that they are planning only one carriageway between Mysłowice and the interchange with S1 in Jaworzno. With even no space reservation for the 2nd c/w hno:


----------



## rakcancer

Kemo said:


> DTŚ East (section Katowice - Mysłowice - Jaworzno) is getting more likely to be built in the next few years
> 
> Too bad that they are planning only one carriageway between Mysłowice and the interchange with S1 in Jaworzno. With even no space reservation for the 2nd c/w hno:


Someone has suggested in polish forum it is just to not to make competition for tolled A4...


----------



## Kemo

The parallel section of A4 (Katowice - Mysłowice) is not tolled.
The tolled section starts east of the A4/S1 interchange.


----------



## rakcancer

Yes , you are right but further east toward Krakow, it is.Anyway, it is sad that it is going to be single carriageway


----------



## Eulanthe

rakcancer said:


> Not sure what you mean? What Szczecinek has to do with other extension of S11? Anyway whole stretch of S11 south of Poznan should be a secondary priority since there is so much left to finish on S5, S7, S8 and S3 and even A1.


Well, it would make more sense to spend what money there is on extending the S11 towards Oborniki at least - the traffic is diabolical there in the mornings and afternoons, for instance. The public transport connections from Oborniki to Poznań are also very very poor. 



> Technically it is not a motorway. There is a speed limit because of some leftover after custom buildings just before border with Germany. There is a new variant of adjusting road to motorway standard.
> 
> Variant 1 (blue) is the one that is going to be implemented.


Hmm, that's interesting - I thought both Germany and Poland were quite happy to keep the situation there as it is, because it allows them to monitor the traffic. I know it's not technically a motorway, but as there's a 100km/h limit up until the old border crossing and 60km/h through it (and onto the bridge), there's not much wrong with the existing layout. It's almost a nice break after the emptiness of Poznań-Świecko anyway. 



> S10 between Bydgoszcz and Torun would be very welcomed however it should never be intended to replace S5 - shortest connection between Tricity,sea ports and western Poland and Germany. Besides S5 hopefully not in very distance future will be extended from Grudziadz towards Olsztyn.


It's true, but to me, it would make much more sense to put what limited funds there are into building the S10 rather than S5. It seems to be absurd that Bydgoszcz will be connected with far smaller places than Toruń, yet the existing road is already quite dangerous.

As I said, it would only put 30km onto the journey, which is nothing if you think about distances in Poland.


----------



## ukraroad

Personally, I think there are 3 really important roads not included: Wroclaw-Walbrzych-Jelenia Gora-Zgorzelec, A1-Kedzierzyn-Kozle-Opole-Kluczbork, Wroclaw-Klodzko, Brzesko-Nw. Sacz. Really lot of cars on these roads. ^^Absolutely agree. I think, however, that the road won't be constructed before 2022(at least I think so, unless there is some sudden enlightment).:bash:. I have no idea wtf they give DSU for S12 towards Chelm where AADT is 6000-7000 while the road between these cities has AADT ~18000-20000??? The government cares too much of the less developed regions, to the grief of other regions.:wallbash:


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## Eulanthe

Wrocław-Jelenia Gora/Wałbrzych isn't needed now, traffic isn't so bad on that route. The only thing is that it would make sense to upgrade to S5 from the A4 junction to the S3, which would also provide a faster route into Wałbrzych via the S5/A4. 

Wrocław-Kłodzko is talked about all the time here, and it's something that really does need to be built. Even building more sections of 2+1 road would really help.


----------



## Kemo

A design & build contract was signed today with Strabag for upgrading the old Gierkówka (DK8) to S standard on the section Radziejowice - Siestrzeń (10 km).
This and the adjacent section Siestrzeń - Paszków are the last sections of Gierkówka that haven't been upgraded to S8 yet.


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## Luki_SL

Thread title - * [PL] Poland | road infrastructure*, not * [PL] Poland | Politics*,

*Zero politics !!!*


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## Kemo

Then we shouldn't even discuss the government's plans regarding the motorway network and construction plan, because it is _politics_.


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## Maciek_CK

Environmental decisions have been issued for:

S12 from Piotrków Trybunalski (A1) to Mazowieckie (Masovian) Voivodeship's border
S74 from Sulejów (S12) to Świętokrzyskie (Holy Cross) Voivodeship's border









_purely demonstrational, based on a well-known map_

S12 map / S74 map _(rather large PDF files)_

S12 will follow the gray path (W6) and S74 will follow the orange path (W4) up until 18th kilometer where it will switch to the green path (W5), following Żarnów interchange.


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## Kemo

Maciek_CK said:


> _purely demonstrational, based on a well-known map_


Here's the "official" version


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## Maciek_CK

Thank goodness you’ve provided us with something less dreadful :happy:.


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## MichiH

Are there estimated construction periods for the mentioned S12 (61km) and S74 (24km) sections? I think they are not funded by the 2014-20 investment program, are they?


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## Maciek_CK

The program says:

S74 Sulejów - Kielce 2019 - 2023 72.7 km
S12 Piotrków Trybunalski - Radom 2019 - 2023 103,5 km

But I'll believe it when I see it.


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## rakcancer

From Polish forum:
Progress on S7 between Gdansk and Elblag. Flattest area in Poland. (Some parts are below sea level).



allnonim said:


> lecimy w kierunku Gdańska
> Kazimierzowo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kmiecin


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## mcarling

The route for the northernmost section of the S74 doesn't seem to make much sense. Could they not have intersected the S12 at Sulejów?


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## Kemo

It makes more sense if you consider that it may be extended via Tomaszów Mazowiecki to the A1/S8 intrechange near Łódź which is already prepared for this:


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## mcarling

^^
I imagined that intersection was prepared go more in the direction of Warsaw (or perhaps Radom) than toward Kielce.


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## ChrisZwolle

I think they should extend S8 to Tomaszów Mazowiecki. The current situation of making a U-turn at the cloverleaf near Piotrków Trybunalski is not really how major traffic flows between some of the largest cities should go. Of course you can take A2, but I think the S8 will be much more popular once A2 gets tolled between Łódź and Warszawa.


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## Eulanthe

Nothing is for certain where tolls are concerned in Poland. The latest murmurings from the Ministry suggest that they are looking at increasing excise taxes on fuel combined with creating electronic tolling for cars. 

I think we're almost certainly going to see some degree of tolling on the expressways - it's just a question of what and where. I can't see Warsaw-Wrocław/Gdańsk surviving as toll free.


----------



## rakcancer

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think they should extend S8 to Tomaszów Mazowiecki. The current situation of making a U-turn at the cloverleaf near Piotrków Trybunalski is not really how major traffic flows between some of the largest cities should go. Of course you can take A2, but I think the S8 will be much more popular once A2 gets tolled between Łódź and Warszawa.


... or just extend S12 from Wielun towards Piotrkow Trybunalski (old version of S8). That way Lublin, Radom and Piotrkow would be connected with Wroclaw.


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## ChrisZwolle

That would add about 80 - 90 kilometers of new expressway. 

The most cost-effective option of course is to add ramps to the A1/S8 interchange at Piotrków Trybunalski.


----------



## rakcancer

I think sooner or later both will be needed and will be built - extension of S8 from A1 and extension of S12 between Piotrkow and Wielun...


----------



## mcarling

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think they should extend S8 to Tomaszów Mazowiecki.


... or to Rawa Mazowiecka.


----------



## John Maynard

Eulanthe said:


> Nothing is for certain where tolls are concerned in Poland. The latest murmurings from the Ministry suggest that they are looking at increasing excise taxes on fuel combined with creating electronic tolling for cars.
> 
> I think we're almost certainly going to see some degree of tolling on the expressways - it's just a question of what and where. I can't see Warsaw-Wrocław/Gdańsk surviving as toll free.


I hope they will introduce vignette - for A and S roads - like in Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Austria, Switzerland and in many others countries. Tolling the expressways alone is just an extremely stupid idea otherwise :bash:. Of course, having a free Autobahn network like in Germany is a dream...


----------



## LMB

Kemo said:


> Then we shouldn't even discuss the government's plans regarding the motorway network and construction plan, because it is _politics_.


No, it's _policies_.


----------



## ufonut

DTS in Gliwice


----------



## John Maynard

LMB said:


> No, it's _policies_.


Even the latter posts are a way or another concerning politics - I said it: it's inseparable with road construction and related issues, such as prolongation of S8, tolls, fuel taxes, etc.


----------



## Eulanthe

John Maynard said:


> I hope they will introduce vignette - for A and S roads - like in Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Austria, Switzerland and in many others countries. Tolling the expressways alone is just an extremely stupid idea otherwise :bash:. Of course, having a free Autobahn network like in Germany is a dream...


A vignette system would be nice, but I think there's the slight obstacle of the A1/A2/A4 concessionaires. Buying them out would be expensive - yet it would be impossible to leave them in place if other roads needed a vignette.


----------



## Kanadzie

John Maynard said:


> I hope they will introduce vignette - for A and S roads - like in Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Austria, Switzerland and in many others countries. Tolling the expressways alone is just an extremely stupid idea otherwise :bash:. Of course, having a free Autobahn network like in Germany is a dream...


You know, if you just get Polish people to all earn what their counterparts in Germany do, Poland could reduce tax rates and still have hella cash to spend on anything and free highways everywhere. Polish people in Germany, UK and USA are generally rich and successful so certainly it is possible.


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## ChrisZwolle

Eulanthe said:


> A vignette system would be nice, but I think there's the slight obstacle of the A1/A2/A4 concessionaires. Buying them out would be expensive - yet it would be impossible to leave them in place if other roads needed a vignette.


Well, Austria has such a system. Several key routes require a separate toll (Sondermaut). Officially you do not need a vignette there, but to drive one logical route, you need both a vignette and pay the separate tolls.


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## John Maynard

Actually, in Austria most of these additional tolls are concerning long transalpine tunnels - the only exception is the A13 "short" motorway connecting Innsbruck to Italy. All of the motorways/expressways, including separated tolled ones, are managed by the publicly owned corporation ASFiNAG. This is no way comparable to Poland, as there is virtually no tunnels, and unlike Austria, there are also private companies concessionaires. 

Here is a map of tolls in Austria (orange: vignette; blue: additional toll):











Kanadzie said:


> You know, if you just get Polish people to all earn what their counterparts in Germany do, Poland could reduce tax rates and still have hella cash to spend on anything and free highways everywhere. Polish people in Germany, UK and USA are generally rich and successful so certainly it is possible.


I know that Ireland launched an appeal recently to its emigrants to take jobs in their homeland: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/call-on-emigrants-to-come-home-to-fill-job-vacancies-369857.html
But, to obtain a similar situation in Poland, this will take some more decades, before Poland could provide an interesting and comparable Western level of life and jobs vacancies for its diaspora to come back to Poland. 
By the way, for what have I seen in the UK and in Germany, many of these Poles are poor people working on minimum salaries and even below hno:.


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## Urbanista1

I'm sorry but you are so wrong about the quality of life in Poland. Yes indeed wages are lower, but they buy a lot more and the cost of housing is a 1/4 of UK or Ireland. I know because my cousins have just got their first good jobs and have bought homes. These homes are very much like the starter homes young people get in Canada. But yes again social services in some respects aren't as good, but if you look at the stats, life spans are just as high, poverty levels are actually lower than in UK and many countries in OECD, female equality, literacy, car ownership education levels etc also among the best in the world. Some Polish emigrants do find good jobs at the bottom of the corporate ladder, but the vast majority I see here are low wage labour jobs with no security, delivering furniture and digging on construction sites etc and they live with relatives. These people will never own homes. My parents generation post war managed to get the homes the anglo-saxons abandoned in city centres when they moved en masse to the suburbs in the 50's and later, now the city centre is the most desirable so their Polish-Canadian children now have come into a lot of money. Our generation could never afford those hiomes right now. On the contrary, in Poland there are lots of government programs to help with the first house purchase.


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## Proterra

Urbanista1 said:


> I'm sorry but you are so wrong about the quality of life in Poland. Yes indeed wages are lower, but they buy a lot more and the cost of housing is a 1/4 of UK or Ireland. I know because my cousins have just got their first good jobs and have bought homes. These homes are very much like the starter homes young people get in Canada. But yes again social services in some respects aren't as good, but if you look at the stats, life spans are just as high, poverty levels are actually lower than in UK and many countries in OECD, female equality, literacy, car ownership education levels etc also among the best in the world. Some Polish emigrants do find good jobs at the bottom of the corporate ladder, but the vast majority I see here are low wage labour jobs with no security, delivering furniture and digging on construction sites etc and they live with relatives. These people will never own homes. My parents generation post war managed to get the homes the anglo-saxons abandoned in city centres when they moved en masse to the suburbs in the 50's and later, now the city centre is the most desirable so their Polish-Canadian children now have come into a lot of money. Our generation could never afford those hiomes right now. On the contrary, in Poland there are lots of government programs to help with the first house purchase.


I agree.

I live in the outskirts of Nowy Targ with my two girls 
We have a 5-bedroom, 2 bathroom 150 sq m. (1,400 sq ft) house, for which we pay 1000 PLN per month. I work for a IT company in Kraków, an hour north, and my partner works for the municipal government in Nowy Targ. Our combined income after taxes is about 6000 to 8000 PLN, as I do some freelance stuff on the side - sometimes I have some extra, sometimes I don't. 

Sure, for Western European standards, €1,500 to €2,000 for a double-income, young couple is not that great, but we have a good sized home, two cars, we can afford going on road trips around Poland on a regular basis, we can eat out if we want, and if we take care about choosing our destination, we can also go on holidays on a regular basis. 

What this income doesn't allow, is living like the people portrayed on Hollywood shows. But then again, very few people in Western Europe or the US are able to live like that, unless they come from a wealthy background. I've lived in the United States, the Netherlands, Scotland, Germany, Norway and Poland - and the standard of living in all these countries is rather similar for most people - Norway and the US being a bit of exceptions, if you're Norwegian, *anywhere* you go outside of Norway is dirt cheap. In the US, it really sucks to be poor. I'd rather be in the bottom 20% in Poland than in the US. 

But for average, middle-class people, there really isn't that much difference. In Amsterdam, we would probably make double the salary, probably between €3000 and €4000 for the both of us, but even if one lives 100 kilometers outside the office, like me, a 150 square meter detached home would be easily €1000 instead of 1000 PLN, if not more. Commuting costs for me would run towards €600 instead of 800-1000 PLN. Insurance for the cars would be three times what we pay now, and for the large diesel which I drive, road tax will be going towards €400-500 every three months. Going out for dinner somewhere will set you back €30-40 per person instead of about 50 PLN.

A lot of young Polish people go out there to work, because they see the €1200 minimum wage which is three times higher than the minimum wage in Poland, but they quickly find that they need to spend half of it just to cover their basic bills. Often in Poland, these people can live in their parents' house for free. In the end, they maybe make €200 or €300 more per month than they would in Poland, but then they don't have grandma cooking them food and if their car breaks down and they need to bring it to a service in the Netherlands, they can kiss their month's salary goodbye. Any entertainment except sitting in your living room and drinking supermarket beer is unaffordable on that wage. Just as it is in Poland being on minimum wage.

In terms of quality of life - in the end there isn't any difference between being on minimum wage in Poland or being on minimum wage in the Netherlands.


----------



## Luki_SL

We are in *[PL] Poland | road infrastructure * thread, not in Economy Thread....


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## John Maynard

Proterra said:


> Sure, for Western European standards, €1,500 to €2,000 for a double-income, young couple is not that great, but we have a good sized home, two cars, we can afford going on road trips around Poland on a regular basis, we can eat out if we want, and if we take care about choosing our destination, we can also go on holidays on a regular basis.


With the salary you've mentionned here there is no way you could afford all of these. How many credits have you contracted, or perhaps inherited (per ex, house from your parents)?

Also, you are not representative of all Poles, but of a minority of them, though on the rise. Most of Poles living in cities live in ugly and crappy commieblocks and earn somewhere beetween the minimum salary and average salary: ~ 400-800 € per month - plus, they have basic spendings like you or even more than you. Not so rosy :lol:.



Proterra said:


> But for average, middle-class people, there really isn't that much difference.


For instance, "middle-class" people aren't that largely recurrent in Poland, and prices aren't that low when compared to wages, qualities of services aren't that good as many Westerners may imagine, and I expressly know that.
Also, "Middle-class" in Poland = upper "Lower-class" in many parts of the West.



Proterra said:


> A lot of young Polish people go out there to work, because they see the €1200 minimum wage which is three times higher than the minimum wage in Poland, but they quickly find that they need to spend half of it just to cover their basic bills. Often in Poland, these people can live in their parents' house for free. In the end, they maybe make €200 or €300 more per month than they would in Poland, but then they don't have grandma cooking them food and if their car breaks down and they need to bring it to a service in the Netherlands, they can kiss their month's salary goodbye. Any entertainment except sitting in your living room and drinking supermarket beer is unaffordable on that wage. Just as it is in Poland being on minimum wage.
> 
> In terms of quality of life - in the end there isn't any difference between being on minimum wage in Poland or being on minimum wage in the Netherlands.


Curiously, once all of these emigrants have gone from Poland very few returns, even when you said they have many things for "free" in Poland.
Apparently, they prefer to live in the West, even on minimum salaries and lower positions than in Poland, where they have to struggle much more.
Furthermore, there is huge unemployment in many areas in Poland.

But, for sure, you can go to the West and repeat to your fellow Poles how great life is in Poland, so there will be a massive flow back to Poland - and solve demographic problem, btw. :lol:.


----------



## Kemo

Today a contract will be signed for construction of Koszalin bypass:

S6: Bielice (S11) – Sianów-East 19.3km (March 2016 to July 2018) – project – map
S11: Bielice (S6) – Koszalin-West 2.0km (March 2016 to July 2018) – project – map


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## ukraroad

*Via Carpatia - Declaration about further cooperation signed*



> The new connection of Northern with Southern Europe(from Klaipeda to Thessaloniki), which integrates the system of the road infrastructure of Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, and Greece; making the new safe corridor at the eastern borders of the EU and the development of trade between the countries of Baltic and Carpathian regions - these are the main targets of the international highway Via Carpatia.
> The international conference about the further cooperation in the corridor development and the decision about the route of the corridor, organized yesterday in Warsaw. The organizator was the minister of infrastructure Andrzej Adamczyk. Apart from him, the ministers of infrastructure of the countries, which are related with Via Carpatia(Hungary, Ukraine, Slovakia, Chech Republic, Romania, Bulgaria, Lithuania and Turkey; Greek minister didn't turn up - my note) also came here.
> 
> There were as well: the Marszałek of the Sejm Marek Kuchciński, vice-minister of development Jerzy Kwieciński, vice-ministers of infrastructure Jerzy Szmit and Piotr Stomma, the MPs of the European Parliament - Edward Czesak, Tomasz Poręba and Kosma Złotowski, and the representatives of the road and rail development sector companies, directors of the road construction companies, and transporting companies.
> 
> Andrzej Adamczyk said while opening the conference:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Via Carpatia is a way of the development of the countries of Central and Eastern Europe. Our cooperation allows us to build a communication backbone, whereby the countries that are involved in the project could develop. This initiative is part of a process of progressive economic and territorial cohesion of the European Union.
> 
> 
> 
> He added later:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Transport corridor Via Carpatia is an opportunity for the successful development of respect for the interests of individual countries participating in the project. I am convinced that Via Carpatia will serve as a lever for economic development of the region and the European Union
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> (...)
> 
> Adamczyk also told that at that year the 10. anniversary of the Łańcut Declaration is celebrated. It was initiated by ex-President Lech Kaczyński. The Declaration started the efforts headed to create that very important connection for the countries of the Central and Southern Europe.
> 
> On 27 October 2006 an international conference that was organized on the will of Poland was held in Łańcut(20 km east of Rzeszów), where the ministers of transport of: Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia and Hungary, were present. At the conference officially the planned corridor was created that passed through these countries.
> 
> In 2010 the next conference passed, at which the document that created the Via Carpatia project, was signed. Apart from Poland, Slovakia, Lithuania and Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria and Greece also participated and signed the document.
> 
> Yesterday the representatives of the countries that participated in 2010 + Ukraine and Turkey signed the Declaration about the continuation of further cooperation of the development of the corridor and the actualization of its route.
> 
> Its target was the acception of the high importance of the corridor and the inscription of the corridor at the whole length to TEN-T(Trans-European Transport Networks) at the next actualization. It also needs financing from the EU as for now. The declaration is also the proof of the priority of the realization of the investment that is included in Via Carpatia in the regional investment programs. The strengthening of cooperation between the countries, through which the corridor goes will help facilitate the receiving funds from EU budget, of those money support for the CEF(Connecting Europe Facility) program. An important element of the Declaration is the signing of it by Ukraine and Turkey and the opening of the initiative on other countries, of those non-EU ones. That would allow to strengthen the cooperation as part of the eastern partnership.
> 
> In Poland Via Carpatia goes through: S61; DK8 and S19(Budzisko-Suwałki-Białystok-Barwinek).
> 
> The majority of the Via Carpatia in Poland is already included in the TEN-T. The exception is Augustów-Korycin, which was not included by the European Commission to TEN-T because of the environmental issues
Click to expand...

_Source: GDDKiA_


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## Kemo

A contract has been signed today with Strabag:

A1: Częstochowa-South – Woźniki 16.7km (March 2016 to June 2019) – project – map

It was the remaining contract on A1 between Częstochowa-North and Pyrzowice.


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## JanVL

Accidents - Fatalities - Wounded


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## panthiocodin

That's what we want to see on a regular basics


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## sponge_bob

You are guaranteed to see it as long as motorway construction continues. Long distance high speed single carriageway roads kill people on a large scale ( high speed head on collisions) and those stats improve the second you replace them with motorways.


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## ChrisZwolle

Yes, a similar trend was observed in Spain, when they opened a massive amount of autovías in the late 1990s and beyond the fatality rate went from one of the worst to one of the best in Europe.


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yes, a similar trend was observed in Spain, when they opened a massive amount of autovías in the late 1990s and beyond the fatality rate went from one of the worst to one of the best in Europe.


Ireland observed similar "phenomenon" more recently when they expanded their network in the 2000s. 

So Polish figures will go down as the motorway network grows. But then you reach level where safety in cities (especially the deadly collisions with pedestrians) start playing larger role in lower overall number of deaths.


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## John Maynard

JanVL said:


> Accidents - Fatalities - Wounded


Still, Poland is on the TOP of EU road fatalities rates :bash:.


sponge_bob said:


> You are guaranteed to see it as long as motorway construction continues. Long distance high speed single carriageway roads kill people on a large scale ( high speed head on collisions) and those stats improve the second you replace them with motorways.


Well, many coutries have understood this for more than 50 years now, I'm glad that this kind of "approach" will be taken more systematically and seriously into account in Poland too :lol:.
After that, next step will be to install widely radars, so security will improve even more, like 30 years ago in...:lol:


ChrisZwolle said:


> Yes, a similar trend was observed in Spain, when they opened a massive amount of autovías in the late 1990s and beyond the fatality rate went from one of the worst to one of the best in Europe.


What a shame that Poland did wait so long before starting to build its motorways/expressways network, even when they had the EU money for it for over a decade :bash:


----------



## Eulanthe

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yes, a similar trend was observed in Spain, when they opened a massive amount of autovías in the late 1990s and beyond the fatality rate went from one of the worst to one of the best in Europe.


Wasn't it also combined with a lot more enforcement? I remember visiting Spain in the early 1990's and drink driving was absolutely common along with rampant breaking of road rules. I even remember one pub owner (who was drunk) getting into his car at the end of the night - we couldn't really walk straight and neither could he, yet it was quite accepted to do what he did. 

These days, not a chance.


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## toonczyk

John Maynard said:


> Still, Poland is on the TOP of EU road fatalities rates :bash:.


False.



John Maynard said:


> What a shame that Poland did wait so long before starting to build its motorways/expressways network, even when they had the EU money for it for over a decade :bash:


You seriously claim Poland had access to any significant (in the context of infrastructure investments) EU funds in 1998, a decade before we started serious construction on our road network? Is that a joke, or are you seriously this misinformed? First significant EU funding came to Poland in 2004-2006 perspective. Those funds were *nowhere near *what we got in 2007-2013.


----------



## John Maynard

toonczyk said:


> False.


I am sure you will demonstrate us, *how Poland is not in the EU leading countries in road fatalities*. 



toonczyk said:


> You seriously claim Poland had access to any significant (in the context of infrastructure investments) EU funds in 1998, a decade before we started serious construction on our road network? Is that a joke, or are you seriously this misinformed? First significant EU funding came to Poland in 2004-2006 perspective. Those funds were *nowhere near *what we got in 2007-2013.


Truth is that Poland could and should have built, or at least started their motorway network much earlier - they had the money for it. 
By doing so, tens of thousands of lives would have been saved, and hundreds of thousands injuries, including paralysis for life, would have been avoided. 
But of course, road deaths as well as road pirates and criminals weren't an issue at all for the government/legislators until recently (with a lot of pressure from Western Europe) and even...


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ per million inhabitants (I don't like the measure but anyway)
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-15-4656_en.htm

Poland: 84
Latvia: 106
Lithuania: 90
Romania: 91
Bulgaria: 90

is just not true...

of course, Germany is listed at 42. But what does Germany have, lots of roads without speed limits!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The 2015 rate would now be closer to 73 fatalities per 1 million people. Which is similar to Belgium in 2012. Now, Belgium is the unsafest country in western Europe, but it's moving in the right direction at a relatively fast pace. As recent as 2008 the fatality rate per 1 million was nearly twice that of 2015.


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## geogregor

John Maynard said:


> Still, Poland is on the TOP of EU road fatalities rates :bash:.





John Maynard said:


> I am sure you will demonstrate us, *how Poland is not in the EU leading countries in road fatalities*.


So, the top country or one of the leading ones???


----------



## John Maynard

geogregor said:


> So, the top country or one of the leading ones???


And what? it's ONE of the TOP of EU road fatalities rates anyway - and it's on the TOP of the largest countries in EU - all others are much smaller. 
Precisely, 5th "best" country out of 28 :banana:. 
Nothing to be proud of - well, except if you're a road "pirate" :lol:.


----------



## Iluminat

John Maynard said:


> Truth is that Poland could and should have built, or at least started their motorway network much earlier - they had the money for it.


When exactly :dunno: Anyway the truth is EU is at least partially to blame since until recently we had much less cars on our roads, so our infrastructure was somehow less inadequate. Now almost anybody can buy some used crap from WE resulting both in more accidents and injuries/deathshno:


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## Kanadzie

^^ was better with a rusty Syrena as opposed to rusty Polo?


----------



## Urbanista1

Iluminat said:


> When exactly :dunno: Anyway the truth is EU is at least partially to blame since until recently we had much less cars on our roads, so our infrastructure was somehow less inadequate. Now almost anybody can buy some used crap from WE resulting both in more accidents and injuries/deathshno:


and pollution. it should be illegal to sell cars in EU that do not meet emission standards.


----------



## John Maynard

ChrisZwolle said:


> The 2015 rate would now be closer to 73 fatalities per 1 million people. Which is similar to Belgium in 2012. Now, Belgium is the unsafest country in western Europe, but it's moving in the right direction at a relatively fast pace. As recent as 2008 the fatality rate per 1 million was nearly twice that of 2015.


But, it's Belgian beer that is to blame :lol:. If it wasn't so strong and so goddamn good - nothing in Poland is comparable, even vodka :tongue2: - there won't be so many drunk drivers and less accidents hno:.
Recently, more than half of the drivers controlled in Brussels were positive to the alcoometer: :cheers: and drive :lol:.


----------



## NejcB

John Maynard said:


> Recently, more than half of the drivers controlled in Brussels were positive to the alcoometer: :cheers: and drive :lol:.


During the last "weekend without alcohol" on 18th of January 34.849 drivers were tested. 1,46% of drivers were above 0,8 and 0,82% were between 0,5 and 0,8.

Hard facts please.


----------



## geogregor

John Maynard said:


> And what?


I was just asking which of your statements was true as you have strange ability of bending facts to fit your statements.

The same with your bollocks about "more than half of the drivers controlled in Brussels were positive to the alcoometer".

Which is simply not true, as another poster already mentioned:



NejcB said:


> During the last "weekend without alcohol" on 18th of January 34.849 drivers were tested. 1,46% of drivers were above 0,8 and 0,82% were between 0,5 and 0,8.
> 
> Hard facts please.


So, Poland is not TOP EU country regarding road fatalities and no, no "_more than half of the drivers controlled in Brussels were positive to the alcoometer_".

Just to make some things clear


----------



## John Maynard

geogregor said:


> I was just asking which of your statements was true as you have strange ability of bending facts to fit your statements.
> 
> The same with your bollocks about "more than half of the drivers controlled in Brussels were positive to the alcoometer".
> 
> Which is simply not true, as another poster already mentioned:


Actually, you can blame JanVL for giving false statements:


JanVL said:


> - Flanders: 23.801 checked - 6% drunken
> - Wallonia: 9.898 checked - 16.3% drunken
> - Brussels: 4.957 checked - 59% drunken
> 
> http://www.carguide.be/guide-auto-a...evallen-met-gewonden-wallonie-dan-vlaanderen/


I double checked, and translated the original statement from Dutch, an it was saying: 5% were checked positive - Now, I will have to always check again every information coming from JanVL :lol:.



geogregor said:


> So, Poland is not TOP EU country regarding road fatalities and no, no "_more than half of the drivers controlled in Brussels were positive to the alcoometer_".
> 
> Just to make some things clear


No way dude! Poland is on the EU leading part in road fatalities and Poland is one of the TOP countries where roads are the deadliest and most dangerous in whole EU oke:.

But you know what, you can always pretend to be deaf and blind, claim that this is wrong, for cons, it will no way change the reality et:.


----------



## hammersklavier

John Maynard said:


> Actually, you can blame JanVL for giving false statements:
> 
> I double checked, and translated the original statement from Dutch, an it was saying: 5% were checked positive - Now, I will have to always check again every information coming from JanVL :lol:.
> 
> 
> No way dude! Poland is on the leading part in road fatalities and Poland is one of the TOP countries where roads are the deadliest and most dangerous in whole EU oke:.
> 
> But you know what, you can always pretend to be deaf and blind, claim that this is wrong, for cons, it will no way change the reality et:.


The fact is, however, Poland is safer from a traffic-safety standpoint than the US ... and getting safer every day.

Not that that's much of an accomplishment.

So stop complaining.


----------



## JanVL

Little mistake indeed, my bad :cheers:


----------



## sponge_bob

Iluminat said:


> Now almost anybody can buy some used crap from WE resulting both in more accidents and injuries/deathshno:


If they are crap (unsafe) that is simply because Poland has a crap car testing system. A proper car testing system would have the rubbish off the roads.


----------



## John Maynard

hammersklavier said:


> The fact is, however, Poland is safer from a traffic-safety standpoint than the US ... and getting safer every day.
> 
> Not that that's much of an accomplishment.
> 
> So stop complaining.


But, you know what: it is much harder in EU to obtain a driver's license than it is in the USA - I guess you could get a license in a day in many States, unimaginable in almost if not all EU states, where you have to have a compulsory minimum of a few dozens of hours of theoretical/practical/road safety courses before even applying for a test exam; plus in some countries, a few dozen of hours afterwards to get a full driver's license, and a probation period of a few years. Therefore, one should compare apples to apples. 

Also, but don't take it as a statement: young Americans can get a car driver's license already at 16 years old in most States (even 14 y.o. for a limited license in some States) and have access to much powerful cars than their average young counterparts in Europe - famous inexpensive "muscle cars" among others, but generally too. So the problem may be there as well :dunno:.
In Poland, on the other side, many youngsters do have "crappy" cars - often the first or second in the family - sometime with cheap motor power modification, and some of them drive them like complete nuts, totally irrespectfully of law and without any consideration for others :nuts:.



JanVL said:


> Little mistake indeed, my bad :cheers:


:cheers:


----------



## geogregor

John Maynard said:


> No way dude! Poland is on the EU leading part in road fatalities and Poland is one of the TOP countries where roads are the deadliest and most dangerous in whole EU oke:.
> 
> But you know what, you can always pretend to be deaf and blind, claim that this is wrong, for cons, it will no way change the reality et:.


I'm not saying that Poland has one of the safest roads in Europe. I agree that we have still quite a way to go. Personally I feel much safer driving in the UK or Ireland than I do in Poland and when I am a pedestrian (which means most of the time) I think the distance is even greater.
But, it doesn't change the fact that things are improving and Poland is heading in the right direction. Give it a bit of credit.




John Maynard said:


> But, you know what: it is much harder in EU to obtain a driver's license than it is in the USA - I guess you could get a license in a day in many States, unimaginable in almost if not all EU states, where you have to have a compulsory minimum of a few dozens of hours of theoretical/practical/road safety courses before even applying for a test exam; plus in some countries, a few dozen of hours afterwards to get a full driver's license, and a probation period of a few years. Therefore, one should compare apples to apples.
> 
> Also, but don't take it as a statement: young Americans can get a car driver's license already at 16 years old in most States (even 14 y.o. for a limited license in some States) and have access to much powerful cars than their average young counterparts in Europe - famous inexpensive "muscle cars" among others, but generally too. So the problem may be there as well :dunno:.


USA is a strange case. On paper their statistics are worse than in many European countries but when I drive there I don't feel that much difference. Lane discipline is a bit of an issue but otherwise it feels that people drive slower than in Europe (with the exception of the greater LA ) and I didn't notice any particularly dangerous habits. Maybe I missed something?



> In Poland, on the other side, many youngsters do have "crappy" cars - often the first or second in the family - sometime with cheap motor power modification, and some of them drive them like complete nuts, totally irrespectfully of law and without any consideration for others :nuts:.
> 
> :cheers:


Every country has its share of youngsters who think they are immortal.


----------



## ukraroad

sponge_bob said:


> If they are crap (unsafe) that is simply because Poland has a crap car testing system. A proper car testing system would have the rubbish off the roads.


^^Not youngsters only
^^^^40% of RJA or RP or RLU or RPR or RPZ cars is such trash made in 1980s-1990s bought by Ukrainians for grosze(comparing with Ukraine). I also saw a rusty Zhyguli from Krakow. And there are still lots of that small **** like Polonaise riding on the roads. Unfortunately it is not precisely controlled:bash:


----------



## DannyBoy85

John Maynard said:


> But, you know what: it is much harder in EU to obtain a driver's license than it is in the USA - I guess you could get a license in a day in many States, unimaginable in almost if not all EU states, where you have to have a compulsory minimum of a few dozens of hours of theoretical/practical/road safety courses before even applying for a test exam; plus in some countries, a few dozen of hours afterwards to get a full driver's license, and a probation period of a few years. Therefore, one should compare apples to apples.
> 
> Also, but don't take it as a statement: young Americans can get a car driver's license already at 16 years old in most States (even 14 y.o. for a limited license in some States) and have access to much powerful cars than their average young counterparts in Europe - famous inexpensive "muscle cars" among others, but generally too. So the problem may be there as well :dunno:.
> In Poland, on the other side, *many youngsters* do have "crappy" cars - often the first or second in the family - sometime with cheap motor power modification, and *some of them drive them like complete nuts*, totally irrespectfully of law and without any consideration for others :nuts:.
> 
> :cheers:


Do you have a study for that statement? How can you judge without formal support? Do all young drivers drive nuts?


----------



## LMB

DannyBoy85 said:


> Do you have a study for that statement? How can you judge without formal support? *Do all young drivers drive nuts?*


No, not at all :lol:. The fact that drivers under 25 pay 150% to 250% more for insurance is just injustice, right? 

No, it's statistics.


----------



## keokiracer

LMB said:


> No, it's statistics.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics :angel:


----------



## LMB

keokiracer said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics :angel:


WTF is happening on this forum? Where do these trolls suddenly come from? hno:


----------



## keokiracer

Yes, one comment made as a joke totally makes me a troll.


----------



## John Maynard

ukraroad said:


> ^^Not youngsters only
> ^^^^40% of RJA or RP or RLU or RPR or RPZ cars is such trash made in 1980s-1990s bought by Ukrainians for grosze(comparing with Ukraine). I also saw a rusty Zhyguli from Krakow. And there are still lots of that small **** like Polonaise riding on the roads. Unfortunately it is not precisely controlled:bash:





LMB said:


> No, not at all :lol:. The fact that drivers under 25 pay 150% to 250% more for insurance is just injustice, right?
> 
> No, it's statistics.


Young drivers of under 25 are over-represented in road accidents, and were responsible for a THIRD of all road fatalities in 2013, in Poland :bash:.

http://superauto24.se.pl/moto-news/...wura-alkohol-i-brak-doswiadczenia_391269.html



geogregor said:


> I'm not saying that Poland has one of the safest roads in Europe. I agree that we have still quite a way to go. Personally I feel much safer driving in the UK or Ireland than I do in Poland and when I am a pedestrian (which means most of the time) I think the distance is even greater.
> But, it doesn't change the fact that things are improving and Poland is heading in the right direction. Give it a bit of credit.


A lot more could have been done for road safety, but almost only "soft" measures were undertaken.
Though, it is not surprising that Poland is still on the leading part of road fatalities in EU hno:.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ what does it really mean though? if fatalities were half as many through EU Poland would still be worse than EU average, is it a good thing or not?

And without standardizing for passenger-km it is kind of meaningless. Maybe Poles drive a lot and British don't (to be honest, the large London population in the Tube or crawling at 10 mph vs. spread-out Polish population driving everywhere probably has a large effect)


----------



## Nowax

S7 - Eastern bypass of Krakow



kasiyoni said:


> krakow.wyborcza.pl


----------



## rakcancer

Last works and tests before opening tunnel in Gdansk:
more pics and info: http://www.gik.gda.pl/22/news,628/aktualnosci/komisja_odbiorowa_rozpoczela_prace.html


----------



## Kemo

^^
The earliest possible opening date is 1st May.


----------



## rakcancer

Slightly overdue.... nevertheless it is coming soon...:cheers:


----------



## sponge_bob

Tunnels like Gdansks get handed to local firemen for training purposes normally, and when the training and emergency plans are finished then they open to the public.


----------



## Luki_SL

sponge_bob said:


> Tunnels like Gdansks get handed to local firemen for training purposes normally, and when the training and emergency plans are finished then they open to the public.


Open to traffic ?



Kemo said:


> The earliest possible opening date is 1st May.


----------



## sponge_bob

Yes. Public traffic. After the fire and evacuation plans are tested and finalised


----------



## Nikolaj

*Changing S roads to A roads?*

I was wondering whether Poland has any plan to change the designation of S roads into A roads like The Czech Republic changing R roads into A roads by 1st of January 2016?

Allmost all S roads in Poland has a very high standard - 2x2, access controlled, barrier in the median and hard shoulders - a standard that in most other countries would qualify as a motorway, however they are signed as S roads/expressroads. As a road user, especially without local knowledge, it can be a bit confusing why they are not signed as motorways (A roads), and I was wondering what the rationale behind S and A roads, and whether there is any plan to streamline the system?


----------



## Luki_SL

^^The expressways are toll free , the motorways are tolled for cars. This is main difference.


----------



## SRC_100

Nikolaj said:


> I was wondering whether Poland has any plan to change the designation of S roads into A roads like The Czech Republic changing R roads into A roads by 1st of January 2016?
> 
> Allmost all S roads in Poland has a very high standard - 2x2, access controlled, barrier in the median and hard shoulders - a standard that in most other countries would qualify as a motorway, however they are signed as S roads/expressroads. As a road user, especially without local knowledge, it can be a bit confusing why they are not signed as motorways (A roads), and I was wondering what the rationale behind S and A roads, and whether there is any plan to streamline the system?


There is no such a plan. It requires f.e. change all signs what is very expensive, but what`s the most important it requires change of polish regulation. According to current regulations S-roads do not meet motorway standards.
I don`t see any need of changing. Never mind how we call some road, most important is its quality and safety of using.


----------



## Kemo

Nikolaj said:


> I was wondering whether Poland has any plan to change the designation of S roads into A roads like The Czech Republic changing R roads into A roads by 1st of January 2016?


No.



> Allmost all S roads in Poland has a very high standard - 2x2, access controlled, barrier in the median and hard shoulders - a standard that in most other countries would qualify as a motorway, however they are signed as S roads/expressroads. As a road user, especially without local knowledge, it can be a bit confusing why they are not signed as motorways (A roads)


100% agreed.



> and I was wondering what the rationale behind S and A roads


There is none.



Luki_SL said:


> ^^The expressways are toll free , the motorways are tolled for cars. This is main difference.


This is not written anywhere in the law, also a lot of A roads are toll free.



SRC_100 said:


> There is no such a plan. It requires f.e. change all signs what is very expensive, but what`s the most important it requires change of polish regulation.


The signage will be changed anyway, so this is not an issue.

Change of regulation? What's the big deal - you can now write law in one night, and have it signed by the president in the morning...


----------



## Rombi

I think the main issue is that signs showing S roads are not blue like A signs so it can be confusing for foreigners if they are looking just for a double lane roads (not all S roads are double lane but significant majority). 
S signs should be blue as well to distinguish them from all other types of roads.


----------



## SRC_100

Kemo said:


> The signage will be changed anyway, so this is not an issue.


Yeah, but it takes tens of years!



Kemo said:


> Change of regulation? What's the big deal - you can now write law in one night, and have it signed by the president in the morning...


 I would not use this as an argument, because it is scary! In this way, there should not make a law!


----------



## ukraroad

Just be happy of the signage it is now. Anyway, that doesn't make much difference if they change S to A. It doesn't go through villages where you have to creep like 40-50 km/h - say thanks you needn't do it on expressway.


----------



## Luki_SL

The A1 motorway, interchange Tuszyn:



Kazusik said:


> Całkiem dobrze wygląda Ponizej stan na koniec lutego br. w/g zdjęć nadzoru:


----------



## rakcancer

That 3 stripe concrete surface makes it looks like all A1 around Lodz is 2X3 but is not


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ Poles know how to drive 3 across on 1x2 surely they can figure this one out :lol:


----------



## LMB

Kemo said:


> No.
> 
> 
> > Rationale behind A and S roads
> 
> There is none.


There is, but very, very little. S roads are mostly older, communist-build double carriageways that were upgraded 99% on the same paths, which _sometimes_ aren't up to motorway (A) standards. That 1% or 2% is the reason used. 

However, I have seen worse Autobahns in Germany than those S roads.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^No, the Polish S-roads are mostly built in new path. The old carriageways exist and they are parrallel to the new roads.


----------



## LMB

Luki_SL said:


> ^^No, the Polish S-roads are mostly built in new path. The old carriageways exist and they are parrallel to the new roads.


Source to your claim? S11 was built 100% along old path. S3 mostly as well. Not sure about S8.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^S11 was built along old pas at ~15km - section Poznań - Kurnik..... S3 is constructed in the new path at all route. Only S8 Piotrków Trybunalski-Warszawa was constructed in old path, it`s only a few percent of expressways in Poland.


----------



## MichiH

^^ Some S roads were built in the corridor of the old DK road but mostly on a different route/alignment!


----------



## Eulanthe

About the S11 Poznań-Kórnik - when was it built? I mean - was the 2x2 road there for years and then the S11 built on top of it, or what?

As for the S5, it's also mostly a new build, and the new S11 bypasses are new as well.

But the differences are sometimes striking at junctions between A and S. For instance, the junctions on the S11 Poznań Western Bypass have been done on the cheap. Even the busiest one (S11/DK92) has been done pretty cheaply, and the less we talk about the dreadful A2/S11/(future S5) junction, the better.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ still, compared to the 1930's "110-brak pasa awaryjnego" A4 exits and onramps they are decent


----------



## Kemo

A village Stare Babki was completely demolished because S7 motorway was routed through it:



spox38 said:


> 11.03.2016


Compare with historical streetview: https://www.google.pl/maps/@54.2374...4!1skCgLrC9cCI8-LKlylgEhiQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ strange, why not just build the 2nd carriageway to left instead of through the houses?


----------



## db84

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ strange, why not just build the 2nd carriageway to left instead of through the houses?


Right, how could we skip this option during all these years of preparation time? :lol:

What you are proposing is building the bypass (obwodnica) of Stare Babki. You can't build just one carriageway outside, because the exits from all those houses would have to lead right to the second carriageway, what is not acceptable. There would have to be a bypass and a junction to connect the old DK7 serving the houses. That would have cost a lot more, than simply buy and demolish these few houses.


----------



## rakcancer

Luki_SL said:


> ^^S11 was built along old pas at ~15km - section Poznań - Kurnik..... S3 is constructed in the new path at all route. Only S8 Piotrków Trybunalski-Warszawa was constructed in old path, it`s only a few percent of expressways in Poland.


Not that few. Almost all S17,S7 and S8 from Warsaw to Bialystok beside city and towns bypasses go along old alignment. The same with S5 from Poznan to Grudziadz and from Poznan to Wroclaw. The only built from scratch expressways are most of S3 from Szczecin to A2 and S8 from Wroclaw to Lodz (soon A1)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It only had a population of 30, but it's uncommon to see a village disappear entirely for a road project. 

On the other hand, dams, ports and industrial areas sometimes wiped villages off the map as well.


----------



## db84

ChrisZwolle said:


> It only had a population of 30, but it's uncommon to see a *village disappear entirely* for a road project.


But that's not true. Look at this map: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/54.2400/19.0261

There is Stare-Babki-by-the-road and Stare-Babki-further-from-the-road. Only this by-the-road part is demolished, so only half of the village disappears.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Ah, Google Earth calls that locality further from the road 'Zadwórze'. But Polish Wikipedia says the only placename like that in Poland is in the far southeast.


----------



## db84

ChrisZwolle said:


> Ah, Google Earth calls that locality further from the road 'Zadwórze'. But Polish Wikipedia says the only placename like that in Poland is in the far southeast.


Maybe Google Earth is outsourced by Apple Maps :lol:

From this map: https://mapa.targeo.pl/19.0266957,54.2402408,19
it appears that demolished are properties 1 till 8. It is possible that property 9 remains. Someone can prove/disprove that?

EDIT: From this picture http://s16.postimg.org/bz8gk3r05/CAM02269.jpg it appears that property Stare Babki 9 is the one behind Stare Babki/60 sign and that Caterpillar machine, whereas property 10 would be the one to the right. So only numbers 1 till 8 were demolished.


----------



## Kanadzie

db84 said:


> But that's not true. Look at this map: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/54.2400/19.0261
> 
> There is Stare-Babki-by-the-road and Stare-Babki-further-from-the-road. Only this by-the-road part is demolished, so only half of the village disappears.


It would have been really amusing if the hamlet was called Stare Babki-nad-DK7 :lol:

there seems to be ability to have bypassed it though and just let it connect by other local roads, like the road to "further from the road Babki" and then go that way...


----------



## Strzala

S19 Lublin West bypass:






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9fuW-EpCDs


----------



## Kemo

Construction permit was issued for Kłodzko bypass on the route Wrocław - Brno (CZ). It should be completed in December 2017.










Intersection with DK8:


----------



## Kemo

aswnl said:


> Indeed, and the exit-symbol instead of the interchange-symbol.


Nope, all exits are still signposted with the interchange symbol, the exit symbol signposts slip roads.

That doesn't make much sense.


----------



## Maciek_CK

A contract was signed today with SALINI IMPREGILO S.p.A. for constructing a 5,2 km long S7 expressway between Skomielna Biała and Rabka Zdrój, along with a 0,9 km long DK47 connector from Rabka Zdrój to Chabówka (all part of _Zakopianka_). One contract down, two to go.

*S7* Skomielna Biała - Rabka Zdrój 5,2 km (April 2016 to July 2018) - [project] - map
*DK47* Rabka Zdrój - Chabówka 0,9 km (April 2016 to July 2018) - [project] - map


----------



## Kemo

A construction permit was issued for the missing section of Puławy bypass on S12 motorway:

*S12*: Puławy-Dęblińska - Puławy-Azoty 1.3 km (April 2016 to April 2018) [2nd c/w] - project - map
*S12*: Puławy-Azoty - Kurów-West (S17) 11.1 km (April 2016 to April 2018) - project - map


By the way:

*S8: Wyszkow-North – Poreba* project website: http://s8.wyszkow-poreba.pl/
*S8: Poreba – Ostrow Mazowiecka-South* project website: http://s8.poreba-ostrow.pl/
*DK16: Olsztyn-West – Olsztyn-South (S51)* project website: http://obwodnicaolsztyna-zadanie1.pl/




Maciek_CK said:


> S7 Skomielna Biała - *Rabka Zdrój* 5,2 km (April 2016 to July 2018) - [project] - map
> DK47 *Rabka Zdrój* - Chabówka 0,9 km (April 2016 to July 2018) - [project] - map


The interchange is oficially named *Zabornia*, but I agree that Rabka-Zdrój would be a better name


----------



## LMB

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nice, exit numbers


There used to be km-posted. I personally prefer that.


----------



## Chris80678

LMB said:


> There used to be km-posted. I personally prefer that.


Woah! The rules about motorway / S road signage regarding exits won't be changed anytime soon :lol: but there is time to fix all that when Poland's motorway / S road network is more complete  What we have seen so far on the signs on A1 is encouraging


----------



## Maciek_CK

Kemo said:


> The interchange is oficially named *Zabornia*, but I agree that Rabka-Zdrój would be a better name


I was aware of it this time, but it just felt appropriate so I followed the official announcement .


----------



## WB2010

Visualizations of the S7 stretch between Skomielna Biała and Rabka Zdrój that will be built by SALINI IMPREGILO S.p.A. including the 992-metres long viaduct (orange on the map below).


----------



## ukraroad

^^Seems the GDDKiA has not taken any conclusions from the Salini Impergilo contract in Romania(A1 Saliste-Cunta):bash:. I wish they read the Romanian thread...hno:


----------



## Luki_SL

^^They didn`t do something wrong in Poland. GDDKiA shouldn`t take any conclusions from the other countries.


----------



## DSzumaher

*S3: Gorzów Wlkp. (an upgrade into 4 lanes)*















































*(S)3: Międzyrzecz (the southbound construction) *


----------



## hammersklavier

Luki_SL said:


> ^^They didn`t do something wrong in Poland. GDDKiA shouldn`t take any conclusions from the other countries.


At what point does it go from "a handful of bad contracts" to "a trend of shoddy workmanship", though? Impreglio was involved in the Romanian motorway debacle and the Panama Canal's leaky locks. Not quite enough to reject their offers out of hand (the way that every EU member these days would reject any AnsaldoBreda offer due to their long history of shoddy workmanship) but enough to at least put in protections understanding that Impreglio, while being lower-cost, is starting to look like a somewhat riskier partner than they did in the past.


----------



## toonczyk

^^ We've had a good share of shoddy contractors on GDDKiA projects in the last 8 years, I think they were handled relatively well. There's always risk, companies go bust etc., there have even been some quite spectacular cases like COVEC on A2 ("fun" fact - last I checked, company's chairman was sentenced to death for corruption in China). But I do believe in vast majority of cases, delays are actually caused by factors beyond construction company's control - bad design, administrative problems, environmental or weather events etc. I don't think any company signs a contract with bad intentions, everybody wants to finish it in budget and on time. Same goes for Salini, plus they've already managed to prove their worth here on A1. So we'll see how they fare - I'm not pessimistic at all.


----------



## MichiH

Maciek_CK said:


> *DK47* Rabka Zdrój - Chabówka 0,9 km (April 2016 to July 2018) - [project] - map


Does the "connector" have expressway-like standard, 2 carriageways with each 2 lanes?


----------



## Kemo

Yes, and it will connect to existing DK47 here and this short section to the south has expressway-like standard as well.


----------



## MichiH

^^ Will the at-grade interchange be removed?


----------



## Eulanthe

toonczyk said:


> But I do believe in vast majority of cases, delays are actually caused by factors beyond construction company's control - bad design, administrative problems, environmental or weather events etc. I don't think any company signs a contract with bad intentions, everybody wants to finish it in budget and on time.


Some companies do. It's a common tactic in the building industry to go low with the price and then try and extract more money from the institution that commissioned the project. Good management will spot this and be able to deal with it, but poor management will lose considerable amounts of money in the process.

Alpine Bau were a rather famous example of this - it wasn't only in Poland where they were deliberately bidding low just to try and get cash into the company. There's a great article here about it - http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/alpine-bau-s-balkan-black-hole-4


----------



## Maciek_CK

MichiH said:


> ^^ Will the at-grade interchange be removed?


I found a very informative PDF regarding the construcion, sadly without the attachments (can't find any specific maps), but it says that the viaduct over the railway in Chabówka is established as the end of the planned road so I'd say that intersection will be removed.


----------



## Kemo

A design & build contract was signed with Intercor (Polish firm) for the bypass of Góra Kalwaria (DK50/DK79). The road will have motorway characteristics. Completion date - end of 2019.


----------



## db84

Kemo said:


> A design & build contract was signed with Intercor (Polish firm) for the bypass of Góra Kalwaria (DK50/DK79). *The road will have motorway characteristics.* Completion date - end of 2019.


Is this a part of a plan to create southern bypass of A2 over Warsaw? When the class of current road was reduced from A2 to S2 after protests of inhabitants, there was an idea of tracing A2 more to the south. Is this why Góra Kalwaria bypass is A-class?


----------



## Kemo

db84 said:


> Is this a part of a plan to create southern bypass of A2 over Warsaw?


Currently the plan is to upgrade DK50, but not everywhere to motorway standard. Bypasses of Kołbiel and Łochów are planned until 2023.



> When the class of current road was reduced from A2 to S2 after protests of inhabitants, there was an idea of tracing A2 more to the south.


This is science-fiction at the moment, but if a decision will be made to build a large Warsaw bypass in motorway standard, the Góra Kalwaria bypass may become part of it.



> Is this why Góra Kalwaria bypass is A-class?


Technically it is GP-class

2x2 lanes
Lane width 3,50 m
Hard shoulder 2,00 m
Median width 4,00 m
Design speed 80 km/h (speed limit 100 km/h)


----------



## RipleyLV

Kemo said:


> A design & build contract was signed with Intercor (Polish firm) for the bypass of Góra Kalwaria (DK50/DK79). The road will have motorway characteristics. Completion date - end of 2019.
> 
> http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/5459/obwgk.jpg


These are great news! Driving through this town is horrible, because of that one roundabout traffic gets heavy there.


----------



## Strzala

*S19 Lublin West bypass:*



> Foto: Krzysztof Nalewajko GDDKiA
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/gddkia/photos/pcb.1126395724079639/1126395100746368/?type=3


----------



## Strzala

*Traffic intensity on polish national roads network in 2015 (average intensity of vehicles movement per 24 hours):*

https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/userfiles...hu-w-2015_15598//SYNTEZA/MAPA_SDRR2015_DK.pdf

You can compare with data from 2010:

http://siskom.waw.pl/nauka/gpr/Mapa_SDR2010.pdf


----------



## LMB

Strzala said:


> *Traffic intensity on Polish national roads network in 2015 (average intensity of vehicles movement per 24 hours):*
> 
> https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/userfiles...hu-w-2015_15598//SYNTEZA/MAPA_SDRR2015_DK.pdf
> 
> You can compare with data from 2010:
> 
> http://siskom.waw.pl/nauka/gpr/Mapa_SDR2010.pdf


Is it me, or are the green lines in 2015 _thinner_? Has the scale changed?


----------



## rakcancer

Lines are lighter. Thickens of lines is almost the same even if number of cars in traffic increased. Makes no much sense to make thicker lines in some places, map wouldn't be clear and readable.


----------



## rakcancer

Strzala said:


> *Traffic intensity on polish national roads network in 2015 (average intensity of vehicles movement per 24 hours):*
> 
> https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/userfiles...hu-w-2015_15598//SYNTEZA/MAPA_SDRR2015_DK.pdf
> 
> You can compare with data from 2010:
> 
> http://siskom.waw.pl/nauka/gpr/Mapa_SDR2010.pdf


Traffic on S6 around Triciry is terrible. I think that is clear that there is a need to build another bypass and widen existing one to at least 2X3


----------



## ChrisZwolle

S2 clocks in at 90,000 vehicles per day within 2 years of opening.


----------



## rakcancer

I guess the record one is on A4 in Katowice: 100983...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ S8 in Warszawa: 142,000


----------



## rakcancer

Ok my bad.. didn't notice that


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## ChrisZwolle

Trasa Łazienkowska reportedly carried up to 160,000 vehicles per day in the late 1990s, until Trasa Siekierkowska opened.


----------



## rakcancer

So was Grota Roweckiego bridge (S8) at that time totally overloaded until North bridge was opened...


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## ukraroad

^^ In 2010 the busiest motorway was S86...


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## rakcancer

It could be however there is no detailed info about traffic in Warszawa like in 2015 map, so we don't know that at least from this map.


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## rakcancer

From Polish forum S8 between Zambrow and Bialystok:



motrs said:


> 11.
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> 12.
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> 21.
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> Cdn ...


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## rakcancer

Progress on S8 Marki - Radzymin connection north - east of Warsaw:

More here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=600111&page=107



zbyhoo78 said:


> Wtorkowe popołudnie i niezła pogoda. Oto efekt.
> Niemal rok po ostatnim nalocie na obwodnicę Marek kolejna porcja fotek - tym razem z całego odcinka.
> Starałem się na tyle na ile można (nie będąc cbezpośrednio zaangażowanym w inwestycję) zlokalizować sfotografowane obiekty.
> 
> 1. Zaczynamy od węzła Marki.
> 
> 
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> 2.
> 
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> 3. Szpitalna, Ząbkowska. Podpory ES-1.
> 
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> 5. Odcinek wzdłuż Drewnickiej do Fabrycznej.
> 
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> 
> 
> 6. ..i Fabryczna, nad którą poprowadzona zostanie D- ES-4.
> 
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> 
> 7. Nieco bliżej.
> 
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> 8. Rzeka Długa i na drugim planie ulica Pustelnicka
> 
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> Cdn ...


----------



## Luki_SL

A1 motorway, Stryków-Tuszyn:



karol.ldz said:


> Piraty:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WA259:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WA263:


----------



## rakcancer

What is a reason for wider asphalt pavement on that bridge? Is it a reserve for 2X3 in the future?



karol.ldz said:


> Piraty:


----------



## Luki_SL

^^Yes, it`s reserve for 2x3.


----------



## rakcancer

Nice


----------



## SRC_100

One more picture of so called _sexy_ roundabout 










source


----------



## Kemo

Tenders were launched for construction of western part of Białystok ringroad (DW669).

The road looks quite impressive:


----------



## rakcancer

^^ It looks like urban S-standard road. Sort of DTS in Silesia. Pretty impressive indeed.


----------



## POLAMCO

Kemo said:


> The road looks quite impressive:


I find this computer animation impressive too :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, this is quite amazing! Nearly the entire route is below grade, with the expressway resurfacing briefly after each interchange. It would be a cool timelapse video, with a rollercoaster feeling.


----------



## markfos

After 4 years of construction, tunnels in Gdańsk are finally opened for traffic :cheers:.


----------



## rakcancer

Finally!!!
Do I see city bus driving through the tunnel already?


----------



## rakcancer

Tunnel in Gdansk, first day:
more pics here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1450885&page=97



KarolZubel said:


>


----------



## Nowax

S7 - Eastern bypass of Krakow



Jasq said:


> http://lovekrakow.pl/galeria/budowa-drogi-s7-w-krakowie-_2533.html





harpun said:


> 23.04.2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/krakowzlot...7521018692690/883972328380888/?type=3&theater


----------



## Shenkey

Kemo said:


> Tenders were launched for construction of western part of Białystok ringroad (DW669).
> 
> The road looks quite impressive:


really good

I just find no need for the road to resurface after every exchange. It would also be easier to build future bridges over it


----------



## rakcancer

Newly opened tunnel in Gdansk carry between 30-40K of cars per day (around 1-1.5K per hour). Within first 24h of tunnel operations there was 4 bikers and 16 pedestrians stopped from trying to use tunnel...
Source: 
http://gdansk.naszemiasto.pl/artyku...o-30-40-tys-pojazdow,3717796,art,t,id,tm.html


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Google Earth also has new satellite imagery of the tunnel area that is only 2 weeks old (11 April 2016).


----------



## rakcancer

rakcancer said:


> Finally!!!
> Do I see city bus driving through the tunnel already?


Answering my own question:
The tunnel is closed to bikers and walkers however there are two bus lines serving through the tunnel. Buses are equipped with bike racks like in these buses:




source and more info:
http://www.gdansk.pl/wiadomosci/Osiem-rowerow-przejedzie-jednym-kursem-pod-Martwa-Wisla,a,52194


----------



## Rampage

SRC_100 said:


> One more picture of so called _sexy_ roundabout


Thank god for the roundabout:

http://www.tvn24.pl/lodz,69/jedyne-takie-skrzyzowanie-w-polsce-mieszkancy-maja-dosc,639875.html

:nuts:


----------



## mdhookey

Rampage said:


> Thank god for the roundabout: http://www.tvn24.pl/lodz,69/jedyne-takie-skrzyzowanie-w-polsce-mieszkancy-maja-dosc,639875.html :nuts:


That is absolute MADNESS! Is there any plan to make a roundabout there? I can't imagine this going on into the future, especially if the A1 is being built nearby.


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## Luki_SL

^^There is plan to make the Nowosolna bypass.


----------



## Kemo

First construction works started on:
*S3*: Jawor-East – Bolków 16.1km (April 2016 to September 2018) – project – map

The existing DK3 along this section has only 2950 AADT :nuts:

This will be the first or second emptiest motorway in Polish motorway network. At least until the cross-border section of S3 (PL) and D11 (CZ) gets built.


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## MichiH

^^ Two years ago?


----------



## Superkot634

*Condition national roads in Poland by GDDKiA*

*Green - good

Yellow - medium

Red - bad*


----------



## Strzala

S7 małopolskie / świętokrzyskie voivoidship border-Kielce:






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjy7d_mHgvQ&feature=youtu.be


----------



## Strzala

S19 Western Lublin bypass, whole section:






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GcqQ8XZ80c


----------



## Kemo

A contract was signed with Budimex for construction of a part of Leszno bypass on S5 motorway.

*S5*: Leszno-West – Rydzyna 10.6km (May 2016 to July 2018) – project – map


----------



## JanVL

Lodz Fabryczna train station



hohsztapla said:


>


----------



## ukraroad

*Progress of highway construction in Poland(May 6, 2016).
Accounts made by me, on the basis of http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/ and the thread I write into, as well as GDDKiA(rewritten from: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Highways_in_Poland, on the basis of my edits).*

*Motorways*
1,992.9 km (1,238.33 mi) planned
1,550.9 km (963.68*mi)+71.5 km (44.43 mi) 1st carriageway exist
79.6151% exist(percent)
134.1 km (83.33*mi) contract signed to build
109.13 km (67.81 mi) u/c
19.25 km (11.96 mi) tendered
217.05 km (134.87 mi)+71.5*km (44.43*mi) 2nd carriageway have DŚU only

*Expressways*
5,769.93 km (3,585.27*mi)±25 km (15.53 mi) planned
1,441.35 km (895.61 mi)+224.12 km (139.26 mi) 1st carriageway exist
26.9225%±0.4332% exist(percent)
972.997 km (604.592 mi)+94.1 km (58.47 mi) 2nd carriageway contract signed to build
558.576 km (347.08 mi)+76.7 km (47.66 mi) 1st(2nd, if upgrading) carriageway u/c
746 km (463.54 mi)+59.5 km (36.97 mi) 2nd carriageway tendered
627.03 km (389.62 mi)+59.4 km (36.91 mi) 2nd carriageway with DŚU only

*Total*
7,761.83 km (4,822.98 mi)±25 km (15.53 mi) planned
2,992.25 km (1,859.30 mi)+295.62 km (183.69 mi) 1st carriageway exist
40.4552%±0.322% exist
1,096.407 km (681.28 mi)+94.1 km (58.47 mi) 1 carriageway contract signed to build
657.106 km (408.31 mi)+76.7 km (47.66 mi) 1 carriageway u/c
775.85 km (482.09 mi)+59.5 km (36.97 mi) 1 carriageway tendered
844.08 km (524.49 mi)+130.9 km (81.34 mi)2nd carriageway with DŚU only

_Notes:_
Percentage of 2-laned A/S roads instead of 4 lanes counted as half of the value of 4(more)-laned road.
± uncertainties are about the new lengths of expressways, according to new highway building program from Oct 2015.


----------



## SRC_100

^^
To be honest I can`t understand what U wrote above... just I ain`t get it :tongue3:


----------



## TwItCH

JanVL said:


> Lodz Fabryczna train station


Yikes that looks like a lot of concrete


----------



## Kemo

A1 Łódź bypass - works are finishing



MalinkaJa said:


>


----------



## KarolisGr

I was wondering if Poland had some traffic information system. Maybe something similar to what they have in Croatia - hak.hr

I did a fair bit of 'Googling', but failed to find anything similar which provides traffic details or information about ongoing road works. Probably the closest thing was general information from GoogleMaps.

Does anyone by any chance use something specific to observe traffic information? Even if it's in local language, any source is appreciated


----------



## rav00

KarolisGr said:


> I was wondering if Poland had some traffic information system. Maybe something similar to what they have in Croatia - hak.hr
> 
> I did a fair bit of 'Googling', but failed to find anything similar which provides traffic details or information about ongoing road works. Probably the closest thing was general information from GoogleMaps.
> 
> Does anyone by any chance use something specific to observe traffic information? Even if it's in local language, any source is appreciated


This is probably what you're talking about:
http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/

Shame that english version hasn't been updated in "a while".


----------



## JanVL

*Road Safety Statistics for March 2016*

*Number of road accidents*

- 2016: 2.105
- 2015: 2.447
- 2014: 2.464
- 2013: 2.129
- 2012: 2.503
- 2011: 2.506

*Road fatalities*

- 2016: 205
- 2015: 226
- 2014: 212
- 2013: 184
- 2012: 265
- 2011: 241

*Number of wounded*

- 2016: 2.672
- 2015: 2.922
- 2014: 2.944
- 2013: 2.687
- 2012: 3.159
- 2011: 3.046

*January-March*

*Number of road accidents*

- 2016: 6.251
- 2015: 6.746
- 2014: 6.798
- 2013: 6.178
- 2012: 7.266
- 2011: 6.952

*Road fatalities*

- 2016: 560
- 2015: 629
- 2014: 635
- 2013: 572
- 2012: 735
- 2011: 724

*Number of wounded*

- 2016: 7.643
- 2015: 8.072
- 2014: 8.234
- 2013: 7.638
- 2012: 9.069
- 2011: 8.634


http://statystyka.policja.pl/st/ruc...wo-w-ruchu-drogowym-w-ujeciu-miesiecznym.html


----------



## Kemo

KarolisGr said:


> I was wondering if Poland had some traffic information system. Maybe something similar to what they have in Croatia - hak.hr
> 
> I did a fair bit of 'Googling', but failed to find anything similar which provides traffic details or information about ongoing road works. Probably the closest thing was general information from GoogleMaps.


There is also traffic information here
https://mapa.targeo.pl/19.6383266,51.1686005,28
(data gathered from popular Polish navigation Automapa)

Roadworks on national roads: 
http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/19/lista-utrudnien
http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/21/mapa-warunkow-drogowych


----------



## Mateusz

Good stuff. Any pics from Lodz Polnoc interchange?


----------



## Chris80678

Great to see so much progress on A1! :cheers:


----------



## Nowax

S7 - Eastern bypass of Krakow



Jasq said:


>


----------



## Nowax

Jasq said:


> cd


 ...


----------



## Nowax

Jasq said:


> cd cd


...

More : http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=174214&page=352


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Is it me or do those photos have a strange texture? It almost looks like a painting.


----------



## SRC_100

^^
I suppose they are blurry + oversaturation of color or so..

btw, aerial photos of S19 u/c, south of Rzeszów towards Barwinek (border with Slovakia)









































































source


----------



## mr.cool

So much construction in Poland going on right now! Love it!!


----------



## Chris80678

mr.cool said:


> So much construction in Poland going on right now! Love it!!


and with one of the most excitedly anticipated openings of this year - A1 Łódź bypass :cheers:


----------



## dual-core power

mdhookey said:


> Perhaps this is a stupid question, but would anyone know the expected traffic levels on roads between the S3 and S5 expressways? Do the authorities project a lot more movement on DK12 or DK36?


In terms of traffic, perhaps you didn't see this pdf: 
https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/userfiles...hu-w-2015_15598//SYNTEZA/MAPA_SDRR2015_DK.pdf (4,6 MB) 
It's current (2015) traffic on all national roads
And this is for 2010: https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/userfiles/articles/g/GENERALNY_POMIAR_RUCHU_2010/Mapa_GPR2010_zDW.pdf


----------



## ukraroad

The government has issued DŚU for the next sections:
*S17* Piaski - Dąbrowa Tomaszowska and Podbełżec-Grebenne, total length* 103.5 km.*
*S7* Zakroczym-Płońsk(connecting the bypasses of Płońsk and Nw. Dwór Mazowiecki), length *20,5 km*


----------



## Kemo

^^
Right, but that happened several months ago.
And government does not issue DŚU's (environmental decisions). Directorate of Environment Protection does 

By the way, the government added new motorways to the planned motorway network:

*S52* Bielsko-Biała - Kraków (including the section between Bielsko-Biała and S7 south of Kraków AND the northern part of Kraków ringroad)
*S16* Ełk - Białystok


----------



## JanVL

^^ Which means 200 km of extra express roads. The former government announced 300 km extra last year. In total the planned network is now 5650 km of express roads.

http://wyborcza.biz/biznes/1,147749...resowych-na-razie-na-papierze.html#BoxBizLink


----------



## rakcancer

S7 Nidzica - Napierki:
Source and many more pics:
http://www.s7nidzica-napierki-zadanie1.pl/galeria/2016-05/1001


----------



## KarolisGr

MAG said:


> If you intend to travel from Częstochowa, then I would recommend taking the A1 to Żory, then hop on the 935 link road, followed by 81 southbound. The 81 is a pleasant enough drive and the route becomes quite scenic as you approach Skoczów. South of Skoczów take the S1 westbound and at the last junction with 938 turn off to go into Cieszyn. I recommend the ice cream in the main town square, if you get a chance, it is beyond delicious.
> 
> The other route you mentioned (1/S1) is also OK but less scenic. Traffic jams around Tychy and northern Bielsko-Biała are unpredictable, though.
> 
> By the way, the S69 does not go to Cieszyn, the S1 does, make sure your sat nav understands that. Otherwise the S69 will take you ~40 km off course, although the views would be nothing short of stunning.
> 
> 
> .


Thank you! I had S1 in my mind, but said S69 . 

The reason i mixed the numbers is because I was looking for the most convenient way to Bratislava. S1 (stopping at Cieszyn) via CZ to SK, seemed to be a more convenient way than S69 (via Bielsko Biala, Zwardon).


----------



## Eulanthe

KarolisGr said:


> Thank you! I had S1 in my mind, but said S69 .
> 
> The reason i mixed the numbers is because I was looking for the most convenient way to Bratislava. S1 (stopping at Cieszyn) via CZ to SK, seemed to be a more convenient way than S69 (via Bielsko Biala, Zwardon).


You actually were ahead of your time 

It's just been announced that the S69 will be renumbered to S1, while the current S1 from Bielsko-Biała to Cieszyn will become S52 - which will be extended to Kraków. 

Could make sense - the S7/S52 will become an alternative route towards Cieszyn from Warsaw, but then there's also a need for an expressway between Radom and the S19 so that traffic doesn't have to go near Lublin.


----------



## Nowax

S7 - Eastern bypass of Krakow :cheers:



wojooverkill said:


>





tygrysiu14 said:


> Filmik z drona, był?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0MMGzI2WaQ


----------



## ukraroad

Kemo said:


> ^^
> Right, but that happened several months ago.
> And government does not issue DŚU's (environmental decisions). Directorate of Environment Protection does
> 
> By the way, the government added new motorways to the planned motorway network:
> 
> *S52* Bielsko-Biała - Kraków (including the section between Bielsko-Biała and S7 south of Kraków AND the northern part of Kraków ringroad)
> *S16* Ełk - Białystok


What about the S16 between Ełk and Augustów? Will it be "S16A" or what? Or maybe you meant the creation of S65?
2) Show me please the link to the news


----------



## Kemo

^^
http://mib.gov.pl/2-514324a4ec938-1797152-p_2.htm
S16 between Ełk and Białystok will be probably routed along DK65.
The road between Ełk and Augustów will be S61 (Ełk - Raczki) and DK8 (Raczki - Augustów).


----------



## ukraroad

Eulanthe said:


> You actually were ahead of your time
> 
> (...)but then there's also a need for an expressway between Radom and the S19 so that traffic doesn't have to go near Lublin.


That is why S12 is going to be constructed between these big cities. However I hate it when they say it is in the "postępowanie przetargowe na wykonanie prac projektowych w stadium STEŚ z uwzględnieniem wariantowych przebiegów trasy"(tender for completing project works in the STEŚ stage with the account of the variations of road route). It sounds like yet we have to wait for that S12 until forever:bash:.


----------



## Strzala

According to S12 - first works on *S12 Puławy bypass second stage *(from Puławy to S17 in Kurów) 2x2 have just begun:










<------------<---------- Puławy












miras said:


>


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I noticed the thread title: _ [S52] Północna Obwodnica Krakowa_

Is S52 now the planned number for the northern bypass of Kraków, or is it just speculation?

Will S52 closely follow DK52 until Głogoczów, or will it turn north towards Kraków?


----------



## SRC_100

^^
S52 is offcial planned as Kraków northern bypass.
Yes, S52 b/n Bielsko Biała and DK7 is going to follow closely to the DK52 and connect to DK7 near Głogoczów.


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## Kemo

Variants of S52









Preferred variant is green between Bielsko-Biała and Kalwaria Zebrzydowska and yellow between Kalwaria Zebrzydowska and Głogoczów.


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## Luki_SL

^^The biggest problem is Wadowice. The city authorities don`t want any variant...


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## Kemo

GDDKiA plans to open the missing sections od A1 and A4 motorways in July, before the World Youth Day.

A1 Stryków - Tuszyn is almost completed now. Only some signage, noise barriers and other minor works need to be done.

On A4 Rzeszów - Jarosław there is still a lot of work to be done (see photos below) and it will not be fully opened. There will be some sections with only one carriageway.



jarfi said:


>


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## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> GDDKiA plans to open the missing sections od A1 and A4 motorways in July, before the World Youth Day.
> 
> A1 Stryków - Tuszyn is almost completed now. Only some signage, noise barriers and other minor works need to be done.
> 
> On A4 Rzeszów - Jarosław there is still a lot of work to be done (see photos below) and it will not be fully opened. There will be some sections with only one carriageway.


Fantastic news! Never mind if A4 takes a bit longer to fully complete


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## ukraroad

I'd rather we also had that section completed, too. Now it is planned for August, but it will be *THE FIRST FULLY COMPLETE MAJOR MOTORWAY IN POLAND!!!:banana:*(I mean, S79, S86, A8 are fully complete, but are not of that importance). Only some MOP in Podkarpackie is made by EUROVIA(near Dębica) right now. Then everybody could go from Lviv to Berlin in some 8,5 hours(excl. the border checks)


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## Chris80678

ukraroad said:


> I'd rather we also had that section completed, too. Now it is planned for August, but it will be *THE FIRST FULLY COMPLETE MAJOR MOTORWAY IN POLAND!!!:banana:*(I mean, S79, S86, A8 are fully complete, but are not of that importance). Only some MOP in Podkarpackie is made by EUROVIA(near Dębica) right now. Then everybody could go from Lviv to Berlin in some 8,5 hours(excl. the border checks)


I agree on how important A4 opening is to give Poland a fully complete major motorway but the safety of drivers using the motorway is just as important as meeting deadlines


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## Maciek_CK

If you hapeen to be going to WYD, here's GDDKiA's recommendation for road users (click to enlarge):



green - recommended
blue with green stripes - A4 both recommended and for transit
blue - alternate routes for transit
green with green stripes - alternate route for DK12 Lublin - Częstochowa
orange - alternate route if A1 Stryków - Tuszyn isn't open
light pink - motorway sections planned to open before WYD
red - national road
grey - voivodeship road


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## ChrisZwolle

I've never heard of World Youth Day before (I don't live in a catholic area), but apparently this event attracts over a million people in recent years.


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## ukraroad

^^^^I imagine how it will be on A1... it is such a mess in summer, and they do recommend it. Btw, when is that electronic toll system is going to be introduced on A1, A2 and A4? They lose millons of złotych in days...


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## ufonut

S8 between Zloczew and Sieradz Wschod by *Rusonaldo*



Rusonaldo said:


> Kilka zdjęć zrobionych pomiędzy węzłami Złoczew i Sieradz Wschód





Rusonaldo said:


>





Rusonaldo said:


>


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## Maciek_CK

ChrisZwolle said:


> I've never heard of World Youth Day before (I don't live in a catholic area), but apparently this event attracts over a million people in recent years.


Yep, it's going to be a major event and a total traffic nightmare for Kraków.


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## Proterra

Maciek_CK said:


> Yep, it's going to be a major event and a total traffic nightmare for Kraków.


Would be well worth it if the pope would excommunicate some senior government officials publicly though. But I doubt that. 

We've booked holidays in Estonia for two weeks around ŚDM. Don't want to be anywhere near Kraków.


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## Maciek_CK

In other news, works progress on S51 Olsztynek - Olsztyn. Here are some photos provided by GDDKiA, featuring a bridge over Pasłęka river valley.


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## Janek0

ukraroad said:


> Btw, when is that electronic toll system is going to be introduced on A1, A2 and A4?


The operator of A4 Kraków-Katowice plans to introduce electronic toll system this year. Press reports that it will be based on the Autostrade per l'Italia technology.


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## ukraroad

^^What about other roads?


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## mcarling

Proterra said:


> Would be well worth it if the pope would excommunicate some senior government officials publicly though.


I don't see how excommunication would fix any roads. Government officials' membership in the Catholic community does not seem to be a source of the problems with road construction, so removing them from the Catholic community does not seem to be a solution.


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## ChrisZwolle

New numbering of motorways and expressways in Poland: http://dziennikustaw.gov.pl/DU/2016/784

Interestingly, S69 is also planned to become a part of S1. 

Can we expect to see the numbering changes in the field soon?


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## rakcancer

^^What I found most interesting is S10. First of all it will go closer to Plock and Wloclawek which makes sense. Then it will continue all the way to S8 around town of Wolomin. Does anybody knows more details about S10?


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## rakcancer

A1-Lodz bypass. Getting close to the opening:



michalzbrzezin said:


> Widok z wd 251 na Stryków - wieczorem wrzucę wiecej.
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> Wd 251





michalzbrzezin said:


> Przejazd awaryjny
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> WA 252
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> Ponadto Grawil szykował się do malowanek od Wa 252 na południe ( nitka Strykowska). Układali też beton na MOP Skoszewy.


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## paf1

ChrisZwolle said:


> I've never heard of World Youth Day before (I don't live in a catholic area), but apparently this event attracts over a million people in recent years.


I wish to not living in catholic area


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## Luki_SL

rakcancer said:


> ^^What I found most interesting is S10. First of all it will go closer to Plock and Wloclawek which makes sense. Then it will continue all the way to S8 around town of Wolomin. Does anybody knows more details about S10?


There is no clear informations about S-10 routing beetwen Toruń-(Płock)-Wołomin (S8) section yet.


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## db84

rakcancer said:


> ^^What I found most interesting is S10. First of all it will go closer to Plock and Wloclawek which makes sense. Then it will continue all the way to S8 around town of Wolomin. Does anybody knows more details about S10?





Luki_SL said:


> There is no clear informations about S-10 routing beetwen Toruń-(Płock)-Wołomin (S8) section yet.


In my opinion the best option would be to create a new junction on A1 somewhere between Ciechocinek and Włocławek Północ, where S10 would split from A1, cross Wisła there, pass Włocławek from the north and go straight to Płock.

The common section A1/S10 between Toruń Południe and the proposed junction might be upgraded to 2x3 sooner than the rest of A1, if so needed.


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## Iluminat

Proterra said:


> Would be well worth it if the pope would excommunicate some senior government officials publicly though. But I doubt that.


It would be fine if he just ignored them.


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## Luki_SL

db84 said:


> In my opinion the best option would be to create a new junction on A1 somewhere between Ciechocinek and Włocławek Północ, where S10 would split from A1, cross Wisła there, pass Włocławek from the north and go straight to Płock.
> 
> The common section A1/S10 between Toruń Południe and the proposed junction might be upgraded to 2x3 sooner than the rest of A1, if so needed.


I think, the S10 will be on the northern side of the Vistula river.


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## db84

Luki_SL said:


> I think, the S10 will be on the northern side of the Vistula river.


This idea dates back to the times, when S10 was supposed to skip Płock and go by Lipno and Sierpc.

But since it has been proposed that S10 will go along Wisła, nearby Włocławek and Płock, it makes no use to build S10 through these forests on one bank of Wisła, when there already is A1 on the other bank.

Just as I said: common A1/S10 from Toruń Południe to somewhere between Ciechocinek and Włocławek Północ, split and make S10 cross Wisła there, pass Włocławek from the north, creating northern bypass of Włocławek and go towards Płock.


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## rakcancer

db84 said:


> In my opinion the best option would be to create a new junction on A1 somewhere between Ciechocinek and Włocławek Północ, where S10 would split from A1, cross Wisła there, pass Włocławek from the north and go straight to Płock.
> 
> The common section A1/S10 between Toruń Południe and the proposed junction might be upgraded to 2x3 sooner than the rest of A1, if so needed.


I agree. That was actually my idea (I called it S62) long before S10 got approved to go closer to Plock. That is my old post in Polish thread. BTW S52 is there too  




rakcancer said:


> *S52* Moim zdaniem wczesniej czy pozniej bardzo potrzebna. Duzy skrot pomiedzy Krakowem Bielsko-Biala i granica panstwa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *S62 (zamiast S10)* Po pierwsze 140 tys Plock zyskuje polaczenie z Warszawa i A1 na polnoc. (Tak na marginesie Plock ma chyba najgorsze polaczenia drogowe i kolejowe z reszta Polski mimo, ze jest w srodku kraju). Po drugie Warszawa jest dobrze polaczona z Toruniem i Bydgoszcza i z Wloclawkiem i zyskuje latem bardzo potrzebna alternatywe dla S7 nad morze... DK10 jesli mialaby byc przebudowywana na S-ke w przyszlosci, moim zdaniem nie ma to sensu:


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=780190&page=34


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## Maciek_CK

Less than a year and we should be driving a brand-new expressway between Jędrzejów and voivodeships’ border. Here are some photos from last month, covering S7 under construction.










Jędrzejów East interchange









Jędrzejów South interchange









south of Jędrzejów, looking towards Kraków









Mierzawa interchange









Wodzisław interchange, -> Kielce


















-> Kraków









source and more: http://s7jedrzejow-granica.pl/galeria/wybrana/id_kat/211


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## Kemo

Photos by *hepta*

A1/A2 interchange - opening soon!










A1/DK72 interchange


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## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> Photos by *hepta*
> 
> A1/A2 interchange - opening soon!
> 
> 
> 
> A1/DK72 interchange


The question is - how soon? July does still seem realistic


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## Luki_SL

^^ ~ July 15


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## Kemo

New alignment of S8 near Radzymin. Warsaw can be seen in the distance.
The existing ~3 km of motorway at the current southern end of S8 here will be downgraded. There will not be a "dreieck" type of interchange here. The visible viaduct will be demolished and replaced with a roundabout.









Photo by *zbyhoo78*


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## metacatfry

a new bridge over the vistula was built yesterday, near Chelmno:

http://www.combatandsurvival.com/world-news/7167-anakonda-16-nato-amphibious-bridging-record


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## bewu1

Thank God that the NATO got all environmental permits in due time and was able to bridge Vistula  Normally, the bridge could not be build so quickly even in Poland


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## mcarling

bewu1 said:


> Thank God that the NATO got all environmental permits in due time and was able to bridge Vistula  Normally, the bridge could not be build so quickly even in Poland


NATO has more firepower than all the environmental bureaucrats and all the gods put together. "Permits? We don't need no stinking permits." (paraphrasing the 1948 film Treasure of the Sierra Madre)


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## Kanadzie

^^ where are the noise barriers?


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## Biesiada

politics removed from this thread


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## ukraroad

Kemo said:


> New alignment of S8 near Radzymin. Warsaw can be seen in the distance.
> The existing ~3 km of motorway at the current southern end of S8 here will be downgraded. There will not be a "dreieck" type of interchange here. The visible viaduct will be demolished and replaced with a roundabout.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Photo by *zbyhoo78*


Why the heck shall they demolish the viaduct(I think it is DW635)?????hno:


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## Luki_SL

The answer is : 



Kemo said:


> The existing ~3 km of motorway at the current southern end of S8 here will be downgraded. There will not be a "dreieck" type of interchange here. The visible viaduct will be demolished and replaced with a roundabout.


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## Kanadzie

But it seems so bad... they could even make some very tight 1930's style ramps for less cost than the destruction/levelling/roundabout and it would work better...


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## HarryMiller

Next extension of A+S roads will be probably as written in The Concept of National Spatial Development:
A50 Great Warsaw Ring (along current DK50 and DK62)
S5 Wrocław-Boboszów
S8 Wrocław-Jakuszyce
S22 Tczew-Elbląg
S24 Gorzów Wlkp.-Poznań
S28 Krosno-Sanok
S46 Kłodzko-Opole-Częstochowa
S73 Kielce-Tarnów-Piwniczna
S74 Walichnowy-Piotrków Tryb.
Total lenght would be around 9000 km, it would be done in ca. 2035-2045.










Other propositions of GDDKiA and SSC users:
- S46 Częstochowa - Kielce
- S9 Rzeszów - Kielce
- S12 Sieradz - Kalisz - Leszno - Głogów - Bolesławiec
- A4 Southern bypass of Upper Silesian conurbation.


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## Kemo

ukraroad said:


> Why the heck shall they demolish the viaduct(I think it is DW635)?????hno:





Kanadzie said:


> But it seems so bad... they could even make some very tight 1930's style ramps for less cost than the destruction/levelling/roundabout and it would work better...


I agree that it does not make much sense.


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## keber

Looking at the drawing it does make sense to me.
DK8 won't be directly connected to S8 and those two roundabouts make sense.
Better question: will new part of S8 have six lanes or just four? I think traffic there is pretty high when I remember driving there about a month ago.

And about above picture of national spatial plan: are some of (at that time) existing expressways planned to be converted to motorways after 2030 (fat red lines)?


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## Kemo

keber said:


> Better question: will new part of S8 have six lanes or just four? I think traffic there is pretty high when I remember driving there about a month ago.



2x3 all the way from Warsaw to Radzymin-South.



> And about above picture of national spatial plan: are some of (at that time) existing expressways planned to be converted to motorways after 2030 (fat red lines)?


The only possible "conversion" would be similar to what happened in Czechia lately. We could just rename all 2x2 "expressways" to "motorways" since basically they are the same. (Yes, I know that there are minor differences but they are unnoticeable to an average driver.)


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## DammianBB

@harry miller , 2045 ? Hah, what is the reason for writing that news.... Future is below :

Terrafugia_Transition_at_SciFoo2008_GoogleHQ


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## Kemo

S3 near Legnica, source: http://e-legnickie.pl/wiadomosci-z-regionu/legnica/4322-budowa-s3-z-lotu-ptaka-foto

Interchange with A4


















Old DK3 meets new S3









Junction with DK94









Legnica-North









Towards Lubin









City of Lubin in the distance









...and the other direction (Legnica)


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## Kemo

S3 bypass of Międzyrzecz



greg73 said:


>


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## ukraroad

keber said:


> Looking at the drawing it does make sense to me.
> DK8 won't be directly connected to S8 and those two roundabouts make sense.


But what is the sense of such reconstruction??? It is just waste of money.hno::bash:


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## Luki_SL

^^It make sense. The old S8 allignment won't be connected with new road directly. Look at the map, the last section will be demolished.


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## MichiH

ukraroad said:


> It is just waste of money.hno::bash:


Maintenance of needless buildings is also waste of money.


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## Kemo

Roads of Upper Silesia


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## JanVL

*Road Safety Statistics for May 2016*

*Number of road accidents*

- 2016: 3.132
- 2015: 2.657
- 2014: 2.961
- 2013: 3.049
- 2012: 3.254
- 2011: 3.666

*Road fatalities*

- 2016: 235
- 2015: 194
- 2014: 238
- 2013: 267
- 2012: 272
- 2011: 341

*Number of wounded*

- 2016: 3.836
- 2015: 3.268
- 2014: 3.654
- 2013: 3.688
- 2012: 4.038
- 2011: 4.604

*January-May*

*Number of road accidents*

- 2016: 11.906
- 2015: 11.947
- 2014: 12.532
- 2013: 11.585
- 2012: 13.257
- 2011: 13.823

*Road fatalities*

- 2016: 1.010
- 2015: 1.045
- 2014: 1.105
- 2013: 1.043
- 2012: 1.261
- 2011: 1.364

*Number of wounded*

- 2016: 14.456
- 2015: 14.400
- 2014: 15.271
- 2013: 14.241
- 2012: 16.488
- 2011: 17.238


http://statystyka.policja.pl/st/ruc...wo-w-ruchu-drogowym-w-ujeciu-miesiecznym.html


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## Nowax

S7 - Eastern bypass of Krakow :cheers:










https://www.facebook.com/krakowzlot...7521018692690/910141209097333/?type=3&theater


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## Eulanthe

I'm guessing the huge jump in injuries, fatalities and accidents in May was because of the two long weekends, which are traditional killing grounds on Polish roads?


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## Luki_SL

^^That`s possible reason of the huge jump in injuries.


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## bewu1

The other possible explanation is last year' decision to liquidate hundreds of radars controlling speed


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## keber

Why the did that?


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## rakcancer

This is a good question.


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## Luki_SL

bewu1 said:


> The other possible explanation is last year' decision to liquidate hundreds of radars controlling speed


The radars were hold by Municipal Police in small villages (cities). They were situated in_ strange places_ to make money to the municipality (...) :nuts:


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## Kpc21

In Poland each municipality is allowed to ground a local police (it's not obligatory), which isn't allowed to do some things the state police can do, but they were allowed to control the speed of the drivers. In many municipalities it happened so that a municipal police has been grounded only in order to put a speed camera, often in places where speeding is not really dangerous and the speed limit is there mainly due to the historical reasons rather than for any real need. Just to make financial profit for the municipality.

It seems the municipal police is no longer allowed to use radars and speed cameras to control the drivers' speed from the beginning of 2016.

Earlier, in 2014, another law came out - from that time it's no longer allowed to use dummy speed cameras, they have to be real devices. And they have to be yellow, so that they are easily seen from a higher distance.


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## Eulanthe

bewu1 said:


> The other possible explanation is last year' decision to liquidate hundreds of radars controlling speed


I don't think so, because they were well signed - it's safe to say that they don't really discourage drivers from speeding, and they also don't catch the multitude of crimes that your average Polish driver is guilty of committing.

Having said that, I'll be shocked if 2017 ends without a new law allowing the use of unmarked speed cameras combined with massive increases in fines.


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## Poul_

Eulanthe said:


> I'm guessing the huge jump in injuries, fatalities and accidents in May was because of the two long weekends, which are traditional killing grounds on Polish roads?


or the psychological effect of losing driving license after exceeding the speed limit by 50 stopped working


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## Kanadzie

^^ or maybe speed isn't a problem and it is something else 



Kpc21 said:


> In Poland each municipality is allowed to ground a local police (it's not obligatory), which isn't allowed to do some things the state police can do, but they were allowed to control the speed of the drivers. In many municipalities it happened so that a municipal police has been grounded only in order to put a speed camera, often in places where speeding is not really dangerous and the speed limit is there mainly due to the historical reasons rather than for any real need. Just to make financial profit for the municipality.
> 
> It seems the municipal police is no longer allowed to use radars and speed cameras to control the drivers' speed from the beginning of 2016.
> 
> Earlier, in 2014, another law came out - from that time it's no longer allowed to use dummy speed cameras, they have to be real devices. And they have to be yellow, so that they are easily seen from a higher distance.


I remember a case in the US where a town was basically only existing to steal money from people in this way, and the leaders were heavily corrupt (and even the reduced speed limit for the 300 m length of the town was illegal...)
Eventually the state was able to dissolve the municipality 

a nice article about it:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/town-without-pity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Rome,_Ohio


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## Chris80678

Hopefully the opening of A1 will give impetus to constructing the rest of the S14 Łódź western bypass so as to complete the full A2/A1/S8/S14 ring around Łódź


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## rakcancer

*S52*. So this is really happening? How about people of Zielonki that were against building expressway through their territory? Are they convinced now?


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## Kemo

Result of AADT measurement in 2015 on provincial roads (DW) was published:

http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/userfiles/...w-2015_15598//SYNTEZA/MAPA_SDRR2015_DK_DW.pdf


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## mcarling

HarryMiller said:


> Other propositions of GDDKiA and SSC users:
> - S46 Częstochowa - Kielce


Obviously, if the S46 will be built between Klodzko and Częstochowa (or between Klodzko and Kielce), it would be possible and perhaps sensible to extend it westward to the CZ border in the direction of Hradec Kralove and Prague (perhaps near the DK8 alignment) despite the difficult terrain. The S46, if built, would lie along the Prague - Kiev axis and would probably become part of the preferred route for Prague - Kiev traffic. That suggests the possibility a further eastward extension of the S46 to Lublin, which would ease possible future congestion on the S7 and S12 by bypassing Radom. To the extent that the EU might be interested in improving connections to Ukraine (as well as development of eastern Poland), there might be EU funding for such extensions. By the time the S46 would be built between Klodzko and Częstochowa, Ukraine might be well along the path of accession to the EU.


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## bewu1

S46 Klodzko-Kielce will be built sooner or later. The problem is how Kłodzko will be connected to Czech roads system; the current westwards path of DK8 does not allow the further development of S-type road even if the terrain is not very difficult both on Polish as well as on Czech side. So one logical solution is to go southwards from Klodzko but the terrain is very difficult on Czech side.


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## mcarling

bewu1 said:


> the current westwards path of DK8 does not allow the further development of S-type road even if the terrain is not very difficult both on Polish as well as on Czech side.


What exactly do you mean? Do you mean that the acquisition of property would be necessary to extend the future S46 westward from Kłodzko?


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## bewu1

Look at map of Kłodzko, Duszniki and Kudowa' area at www.obszary.natura2000.pl It would be difficult to build expressroad there.


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## ukraroad

mcarling said:


> The S46, if built, would lie along the Prague - Kiev axis and would probably become part of the preferred route for Prague - Kiev traffic.


If it lies along a straight line it does not mean that it is best. We would have to wait for S46 for years to come, and, anyway, there is A1 for that. At least it is not tolled yet(A4 is).


mcarling said:


> That suggests the possibility a further eastward extension of the S46 to Lublin, which would ease possible future congestion on the S7 and S12 by bypassing Radom.


http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/userfiles/articles/g/generalny-pomiar-ruchu-w-2015_15598//SYNTEZA/MAPA_SDRR2015_DK_DW.pdf
Looking at the map, we can't say it is all that bad near Radom. It looks fine with the S46 to Kraśnik, but there is no urgent need at all. As the AADT of the S7/S12 section is av. 17500, and that proposed S46 section only 8000, there is little sense. However, S74 will be built halfway through, which means the expressway will be built through Opatów to Nisko. 


mcarling said:


> By the time the S46 would be built between Klodzko and Częstochowa, Ukraine might be well along the path of accession to the EU.


Time will show us. For the moment being, the last promise for the Ukraine was that Ukraine won't yet access EU *for decades*hno:. If they do, however, gigabytes of praise from Ukrainians will come onto this forum.


BTW, according to the link of the road traffic I mentioned, I see that at least 4 expressways should be constructed:
1) Wrocław - Wałbrzych - S3(S35)
2)Brzesko-Nw. Sącz-Muszynka/Piwniczna(not obligatory)(S75)
3)Tarnów-Kielce(S73)
4)Medyka - Przemyśl - Radymno - Jarosław - A4(S77 with the possible contination towards Leżajsk and Nisko; maybe S74(continuation), then).

How do you like it?



bewu1 said:


> Look at map of Kłodzko, Duszniki and Kudowa' area at www.obszary.natura2000.pl It would be difficult to build expressroad there.


We have the same situation as with A18. No doubts, tunnels will be needed, as well as a lot of animal bridges and forests cut. Still it is possible. However, Czechs have similar problems here


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## Maciek_CK

S7 Radom – voivodeships’ border is taking shape - now visible on Google Earth imagery from March.


----------



## Kemo

Wildlife crossing on S3:





































Source: GDDKiA


----------



## Kemo

DW719 in Warsaw - transverse launching of 4200 ton viaduct (moving by 120 metres in 1,5 h) (timelapse)

(can not embed the video on the forum)
https://vimeo.com/169414845


----------



## mcarling

bewu1 said:


> Look at map of Kłodzko, Duszniki and Kudowa' area at www.obszary.natura2000.pl It would be difficult to build expressroad there.


It seems to me that a tunnel about 2km long somewhere between Duszniki-Zdrój and Olešnice v Orlických hotách would provide a nice reasonably direct route going south of the main part of the nature sanctuary.



ukraroad said:


> If it lies along a straight line it does not mean that it is best.


True but a nearly straight line route is an advantage. Sometimes there are other factors that overcome the advantage of a shorter route. The common mistake is to give up the long-term advantages of a shorter route for the short-term advantages of a circuitous route.



ukraroad said:


> We would have to wait for S46 for years to come, and, anyway, there is A1 for that. At least it is not tolled yet(A4 is).


I think we'll have to wait decades for any extensions of the S46 west of Klodzko or east of Kielce. The A1 is well out of the way for Prague-Kiev; the A4 is a better choice. The biggest improvement to Prague-Kiev would come from a better connection between Hradec Kralove and the A4 near Opole or Katowice.



ukraroad said:


> Looking at the map, we can't say it is all that bad near Radom. It looks fine with the S46 to Kraśnik, but there is no urgent need at all.


I agree that the need for extensions to the S46 is not urgent. I would not expect them to be built before the 2030s.



ukraroad said:


> BTW, according to the link of the road traffic I mentioned, I see that at least 4 expressways should be constructed:
> 1) Wrocław - Wałbrzych - S3(S35)
> 2)Brzesko-Nw. Sącz-Muszynka/Piwniczna(not obligatory)(S75)
> 3)Tarnów-Kielce(S73)
> 4)Medyka - Przemyśl - Radymno - Jarosław - A4(S77 with the possible contination towards Leżajsk and Nisko; maybe S74(continuation), then).
> 
> How do you like it?


Your S35 proposal would be great for Warsaw-Prague traffic. I don't have an opinion about your proposals for S75 or S73. I think your S74 idea might make sense between Przemyśl and the A4 but perhaps not to Medyka.

I think someday an S9 will be needed between Radom and Rzeszow. In the medium term, traffic will go via Lublin using the S17 and S19 but, when they become congested, an S9 would be a good solution.


----------



## adam79

Construction of S5 near Wrocław seen from the aircraft.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lpu2VvMg6c


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Great photo of S7 at Ostróda (by GDDKiA)


----------



## Chris80678

Massive-looking interchange planned here?


----------



## SRC_100

^^
Inche. b/n *S7* & *S5*


----------



## Strzala

*S19 Western Lublin bypass*, pulling first part of railway viaduct over road:






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u86oRxFyPcg


----------



## roaddor

^^
Are there any plans to continue afterwards with a highway or expressway towards Ukraine border and Lvov?


----------



## Kemo

Yes, but not soon.


----------



## Strzala

roaddor said:


> ^^
> Are there any plans to continue afterwards with a highway or expressway towards Ukraine border and Lvov?


Yes there a plans to build expressways S12 from Piaski to Dorohusk (border with UA/direction Kiev) and S17 from Piaski to Hrebenne (border with UA/direction Lviw). Both roads have environmental decisions, but they will be realized after 2020...


----------



## Chris80678

News from Polish thread:

A1 Łódź eastern bypass may open 1st July 2016 (much earlier than expected and ahead of schedule) :cheers:


----------



## panthiocodin

Chris80678 said:


> News from Polish thread:
> 
> A1 Łódź eastern bypass may open 1st July 2016 (much earlier than expected and ahead of schedule) :cheers:


What total lenght it will be?


----------



## Chris80678

panthiocodin said:


> What total lenght it will be?



40km


----------



## metacatfry

The new stretch of A1 does not seem to have toll gates on interchanges. At least it looks like that when i look at google earth imagery. Where the gates just not built when the imagery was taken or does it really not have any?


----------



## Chris80678

metacatfry said:


> The new stretch of A1 does not seem to have toll gates on interchanges. At least it looks like that when i look at google earth imagery. Where the gates just not built when the imagery was taken or does it really not have any?


For now it may be toll-free which would explain why toll gates may not have been built at interchanges. Because it is a city bypass (like A2 is of Poznan) it may remain toll free. There may be plans in the future to toll this stretch of A1


----------



## metacatfry

I understand that. but a bit further north the A1 is built with toll gates from Strykow to Torun. this part of A1 is not tolled either, yet they built the infrastructure in order to be ready in case it was decided that tolls should be collected. I guess whether or not they build the infrastructure can be taken as a sign of the likelihood of introduction of tolling via booths in the future, but as expericence with the A1 shows even if they build the booths they may still not introduce tolling.


----------



## Kemo

Around 2013 a decision was made to abandon the toll booth system and develop an electronic system in the future. A1 was originaly meant to have toll gates, but it was redesigned during construction and the toll booths were not built.
This section, however, was completed before the decision was made: https://www.google.pl/maps/@51.644005,19.5386453,875m/data=!3m1!1e3


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## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> Around 2013 a decision was made to abandon the toll booth system and develop an electronic system in the future. A1 was originaly meant to have toll gates, but it was redesigned during construction and the toll booths were not built.
> This section, however, was completed before the decision was made: https://www.google.pl/maps/@51.644005,19.5386453,875m/data=!3m1!1e3


I think A1 from Stryków to Tuszyn should remain toll free because like the A2 south of Poznań it acts as a city bypass road (for Łódź)


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## roaddor

What is the reason that Warsaw and Krakov won't be connected directly by a motorway?


----------



## Chris80678

roaddor said:


> What is the reason that Warsaw and Krakov won't be connected directly by a motorway?


When completed, S7 should be sufficient for now. Perhaps higher traffic densities may call for a full motorway upgrade in the future


----------



## roaddor

Chris80678 said:


> When completed, S7 should be sufficient for now. Perhaps higher traffic densities may call for a full motorway upgrade in the future


OK but after all we are talking about the two largest cities in Poland with huge importance to the country both economic and cultural. Further south is also Zakopane as an attractive tourist destination.


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## Kemo

S7 is a motorway. Look:


----------



## Chris80678

Large stretches of DK7 between Warsaw and Kraków are being upgraded to expressway standard right now with a lot of construction going on :banana:

S7 may become A7 in the future but EU funding is a consideration


----------



## Kemo

Chris80678 said:


> S7 may become A7 in the future but EU funding is a consideration


???
It would be just a change in naming, just like in the Czech Republic.


----------



## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> ???
> It would be just a change in naming, just like in the Czech Republic.


Sorry yes I see that now. My mistake Kemo
I meant EU funding towards upgrading more sections of DK7


----------



## Kanadzie

Kemo said:


> ???
> It would be just a change in naming, just like in the Czech Republic.


and change of sign to 140?


----------



## MichiH

Chris80678 said:


> News from Polish thread:
> 
> A1 Łódź eastern bypass may open 1st July 2016 (much earlier than expected and ahead of schedule) :cheers:


Is 1st July confirmed? Not sure but I might be driving there on 5th July. I think S8+A1 will be opened together, won't they?


----------



## Luki_SL

^^There is no confirmation as far I know.


----------



## mcarling

MichiH said:


> I think S8+A1 will be opened together, won't they?


It would be very strange if the S8 section between the A1 and DK1 were not opened at the same time as the A1.


----------



## Kemo

New alignment of *DK15* in Brodnica was opened to traffic today.


















































































Source and more photos: http://obwodnicabrodnicy.pl/czerwiec-2016zdjecia-z-powietrza/


----------



## Eulanthe

metacatfry said:


> I understand that. but a bit further north the A1 is built with toll gates from Strykow to Torun. this part of A1 is not tolled either, yet they built the infrastructure in order to be ready in case it was decided that tolls should be collected. I guess whether or not they build the infrastructure can be taken as a sign of the likelihood of introduction of tolling via booths in the future, but as expericence with the A1 shows even if they build the booths they may still not introduce tolling.


The problem with the toll gates is that they really should have one integrated system as far as possible, rather than breaking it into tolled and untolled sections. There's no reason why the Łódź bypass has to be toll free - it's far enough out so that local traffic won't be using it for short hops (unlike the A2 in Poznań) and so it should be perfectly possible to have a large closed toll system. 

However, the most logical solution in the long term is to introduce vignettes, which I'm pretty sure will happen at some point sooner rather than later.


----------



## Eulanthe

metacatfry said:


> The new stretch of A1 does not seem to have toll gates on interchanges. At least it looks like that when i look at google earth imagery. Where the gates just not built when the imagery was taken or does it really not have any?


The problem is that we're in a state of limbo with the tolling. It's clear that the current solution doesn't work at peak times, there's no will on the part of the private operators and the GDDKiA to build huge French-style toll stations - so we're simply waiting for someone in the government to make a decision.

The current ViaToll agreement expires in 2017, and it seems highly unlikely that tolls will be introduced in 2018 when an election is due in 2019, so who knows.

It would make sense at least to introduce tolls on the Łódź-Gdańsk A1 section and to integrate it with the A2 tolls, as the infrastructure is already there and waiting. But I was driving on the DK14 yesterday near Stryków - and even with the open tolls, there was a jam stretching back to the exit from the motorway. For that reason, in the long term, the only feasible solution is electronic tolling.

For what it's worth, I'm against electronic tolls because it's obvious that any government looking for easy revenue would simply extend tolls to expressways.


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## Kanadzie

^^ but wouldn't vignettes almost assuredly apply to the expressways too?

why not just abolish tolling entirely?  The current government wants to change everything, everything except nothing that would actually help anyone :lol:


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## ukraroad

^^SWEET DREAMS. Who wouldn't like a few mln bucks in their pockets?


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## metacatfry

Eulanthe said:


> But I was driving on the DK14 yesterday near Stryków - and even with the open tolls, there was a jam stretching back to the exit from the motorway. For that reason, in the long term, the only feasible solution is electronic tolling.


Speaking of the Stryków interchange between A2 and DK14, i have high hopes that the eternal jam here will be cleared up with the opening og the new A1 stretch. It seems to me that at present a simple roundabout has too low capacity to handle the demand.
a lot of traffic that now use this motorway access will instead choose other points along the new stretch. And of course long distance traffic will not have to drive through here either, so the traffic will come down quite a bit.


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## Kemo

Luki_SL said:


> ^^There is no confirmation as far I know.


There is 
http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/8011/a1-wezel-lodz-polnoc-wezel-lodz-poludnie
1st July.


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## Kpc21

Chris80678 said:


> I think A1 from Stryków to Tuszyn should remain toll free because like the A2 south of Poznań it acts as a city bypass road (for Łódź)


A2 from Emilia to Łódź Północ also acts as a city bypass and it's not toll free. So it's difficult to say how it will be.



roaddor said:


> What is the reason that Warsaw and Krakov won't be connected directly by a motorway?


"S" roads (expressways) are of almost such a standard as the "A" roads (motorways), there is no much difference.

A more weird issue is the Warsaw bypass, which is being built as an expressway, not a motorway. Even though its southern sections belongs to the national road "2" and it's somehow a part of the A2 motorway, it's only an expressway, marked as S2.

Supposedly because of people's protests. Why did they prefer an expressway rather then not much different motorway, I don't know. Maybe because all the expressways built until now has been toll free and motorways, even as city bypasses, happen to be not toll free, even though there is actually no law that would say that expressway must be toll free.



mcarling said:


> It would be very strange if the S8 section between the A1 and DK1 were not opened at the same time as the A1.


It's impossible 



Eulanthe said:


> It would make sense at least to introduce tolls on the Łódź-Gdańsk A1 section and to integrate it with the A2 tolls, as the infrastructure is already there and waiting. But I was driving on the DK14 yesterday near Stryków - and even with the open tolls, there was a jam stretching back to the exit from the motorway. For that reason, in the long term, the only feasible solution is electronic tolling.


The DK14 case has nothing to do with tolls. That traffic jams are due to the missing A1 section, the one which is gonna be opened within the next month. The roundabout through which the traffic from the highway has to pass was not designed for such a high traffic, because it was supposed to be just a local highway exit, not a part of the main north-south road in the country - the function of which it plays now (A1-A2-this roundabout-DK14-Łódź-DK1-A1).

If you go from Łódź and you want to enter the A2, and you meet a traffic jam, it's often useful to take this detour: https://goo.gl/maps/rGLvJFbtYdK2 - although I am probably telling it too late, since the traffic jam will no longer be present here in a short time. In the reverse direction it's much worse, you just have to use another exit from the highway. 

It's especially bad on Friday afternoons (the traffic jam happens to reach even the city borders) - then it's usually much better to avoid the exit from Łódź via DK14 at all and use Łagiewnicka street and DK71 instead.


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## Chris80678

Forgive me, I had forgotten that A2 from Emilia to Łódź Północ also acts as a city bypass for Łódź


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## mikoair

Kpc21 said:


> A more weird issue is the Warsaw bypass, which is being built as an expressway, not a motorway. Even though its southern sections belongs to the national road "2" and it's somehow a part of the A2 motorway, it's only an expressway, marked as S2.


I guess that the reason is in distance between exits (expressways have this distance shorter, which makes bypass more available for local people in agglomeration) and maybe in curve radius ("S" roads can have tighter curves than motorways)


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## Kemo

Chris80678 said:


> Forgive me, I had forgotten that A2 from Emilia to Łódź Północ also acts as a city bypass for Łódź


Actually it does not, what kind of traffic would use this section of A2 for bypassing Łódź?
It will start to be a bypass (for DK91) after A1 gets opened.


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## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> Actually it does not, what kind of traffic would use this section of A2 for bypassing Łódź?
> It will start to be a bypass (for DK91) after A1 gets opened.


Pardon me for my mistake again. With only 3 days until the official confirmed opening this matter is pointless for discussion now anyway. 
Let's just focus on celebrating what will be an important date for Polish highways


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## Kemo

Tomorrow two contracts will be signed for construction of *S7* "Zakopianka" motorway:

S7: Lubień – Naprawa 7.6km (July 2016 to October 2018) – ? – map
S7: Naprawa - Skomielna Biala 3.0km (July 2016 to December 2020) – ? – map

The second section includes a tunnel, this is why it will take so much time to complete.


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## MAG

Around 40 km of A1 eastern bypass of Łódź is due to open soon, most likely end of this week. The paint is nearly dry, paperwork sign-offs are well advanced, champagne is chilling in the fridge. Here is a taster:











Copyright *Motrs, michalzbrzezin, Witachu*

opcorn:


.


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## rakcancer

A4. Sample of terribly overspent money for noise barriers along motorway. hno:
Silver lining here is that someone got sober and didn't install another noise barriers along newly renovated rail tracks:



Baxon79 said:


> Several trains on the newly modernized section of LK91 (E30) railroad between Brzesko and Tarnów.


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## keber

I noticed this year that those green noise barriers are not as effective like in other countries even if they are quite tall.


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## Strzala

*S19 Western Lublin bypass:*




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## Kpc21

Kemo said:


> Actually it does not, what kind of traffic would use this section of A2 for bypassing Łódź?
> It will start to be a bypass (for DK91) after A1 gets opened.


The DK72 road. Although it's meaning is purely local and the main west-east road in the country, before the A2 was buit, had been the current DK92 through Krośniewice and Kutno (Kutno with a bypass of this town; the bypass of Krośniewice was built just a few years ago).


----------



## ukraroad

I have a question: is DW 358 from Trzciniec Dolny to Sieniawka(near Bogatynia) open?


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## MAG

ukraroad said:


> I have a question: is DW 358 from Trzciniec Dolny to Sieniawka(near Bogatynia) open?


Yes, if you mean DW354. When travelling southbound, is is also quite a scenic route, just don't look behind you or to your left (you'll know why when you get there). I recommend visiting the PL-CZ-D border tri-point (styk granic) near Porajów.





keber said:


> I noticed this year that those green noise barriers are not as effective as in other countries ...


Is this your objective or subjective assessment?



.


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## ukraroad

MAG said:


> Yes, if you mean DW354. When travelling southbound, is is also quite a scenic route, just don't look behind you or to your left (you'll know why when you get there).


It is said it has very bad quality(OSM). Is it true, or it is already repaired?
I know why not to look left: Kopalnia Węglowa Turów


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## Chris80678

A big day for Poland today :cheers:


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## icemii

New A1 :cheers:


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## Chris80678

icemii said:


> New A1 :cheers:


YES :banana:


----------



## DrOzda

Today test drive for journalists :
https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.ne...=1c2ba3e299b573d8d5c282e9ce123eba&oe=57767212


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## keber

MAG said:


> Is this your objective or subjective assessment?.


I didn't take any measurements, but my hearing is very good. I've been behind many different types of noise barriers, but the standard green one from Poland is noticeably worse at sound suppression efficiency.


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## MAG

It is my honour and pleasure to announce to the SSC community that the 40 km stretch of the A1 around eastern suburbs of Łódź is open for business from today. If there is any one day in our country’s recent history that we have been looking forward to with head-over-heels anticipation, it is this very day. And on this bright and sunny afternoon, a warm greeting is not enough for there are few days in one’s lifetime that bring into sharp focus the efforts, sacrifice and determination of so many. 

From the ports of Gdańsk to Vienna/Bratislava and beyond, from Warsaw to Dresden and beyond one can now drive in enhanced safety entirely on motorways and expressways. One of the great things about the European Union is that it allows great things to be achieved together that we would otherwise struggle to achieve individually. In sharp contrast to other recent events in Europe, for us today is all about being humble and grateful, being open and drawing strength from each other, working together for the greater good of all and exceeding the expectations of past generations from whom we inherited these great opportunities to grow and excel ourselves. 

We are exceedingly proud and happy to be able to take advantage of these opportunities and make our contribution to road infrastructure at the very heart of Europe. All are welcome, whether you are just passing through on your way to elsewhere or staying for longer, come and visit this beautiful and now confident part of Poland. Come freely, drive responsibly, savour and delight in our world-class road quality, enjoy your stay and remember to leave behind a tad of the happiness you bring.

:cheers:










© miasto Łódź



.


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## Chris80678

Beautifully said MAG


----------



## Maciek_CK

It's THE motorway we've all been waiting for:













































source: GDDKiA


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## vespafrederic

Greetings from Hungary!

Is there any plan to connect Lodz with Katowice by motorway?



MAG said:


> It is my honour and pleasure to announce to the SSC community that the 40 km stretch of the A1 around eastern suburbs of Łódź is open for business from today. If there is any one day in our country’s recent history that we have been looking forward to with head-over-heels anticipation, it is this very day. And on this bright and sunny afternoon, a warm greeting is not enough for there are few days in one’s lifetime that bring into sharp focus the efforts, sacrifice and determination of so many.
> 
> From the ports of Gdańsk to Vienna/Bratislava and beyond, from Warsaw to Dresden and beyond one can now drive in enhanced safety entirely on motorways and expressways. One of the great things about the European Union is that it allows great things to be achieved together that we would otherwise struggle to achieve individually. In sharp contrast to other recent events in Europe, for us today is all about being humble and grateful, being open and drawing strength from each other, working together for the greater good of all and exceeding the expectations of past generations from whom we inherited these great opportunities to grow and excel ourselves.
> 
> We are exceedingly proud and happy to be able to take advantage of these opportunities and make our contribution to road infrastructure at the very heart of Europe. All are welcome, whether you are just passing through on your way to elsewhere or staying for longer, come and visit this beautiful and now confident part of Poland. Come freely, drive responsibly, savour and delight in our world-class road quality, enjoy your stay and remember to leave behind a tad of the happiness you bring.
> 
> :cheers:


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## Chris80678

Maciek_CK said:


> It's THE motorway we've all been waiting for:
> 
> Along with A4 Rzeszów to Jaroslaw (opening in a few weeks time :cheers


----------



## Luki_SL

vespafrederic said:


> Greetings from Hungary!
> 
> Is there any plan to connect Lodz with Katowice by motorway?


The A1 motorway is already build at Częstochowa North-Pyrzowice section, it`s 57km long motorway (2+2). The section Piotrkow Trybunalski - Częstochowa North ( 2+2 road now) is planned to be constructed in PPP as 3+3 motorway.


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## salto_angel

vespafrederic said:


> Greetings from Hungary!
> 
> Is there any plan to connect Lodz with Katowice by motorway?


Part from Katowice (Pyrzowice) to Częstochowa is in construction now: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1815132


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## vespafrederic

Luki_SL said:


> The A1 motorway is already build at Częstochowa North-Pyrzowice section, it`s 57km long motorway (2+2). The section Piotrkow Trybunalski - Częstochowa North ( 2+2 road now) is planned to be constructed in PPP as 3+3 motorway.


I was checking Google Maps, and there the road is marked "1" not "A1", that is why I don't realize the presence of a motorway.


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## vespafrederic

salto_angel said:


> Part from Katowice (Pyrzowice) to Częstochowa is in construction now: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1815132


Thanky you! A1 will be a really impressive motorway.


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## MAG

vespafrederic said:


> Is there any plan to connect Lodz with Katowice by motorway?


We are already working hard on this, my friend. 

The central north-south route is already fully dualled, either to motorway standard or expressway standard. The missing part near Łódź was opened today, hence our delight.

The new part of the A1 also provides a vital east-west motorway link, therefore most of us have had to upgrade our delight to outright ecstasy.




.


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## vespafrederic

MAG said:


> We are already working hard on this, my friend.
> 
> The central north-south route is already fully dualled, either to motorway standard or expressway standard. The missing part near Łódź was opened today, hence our delight.
> 
> The new part of the A1 also provides a vital east-west motorway link, therefore most of us have had to upgrade our delight to outright ecstasy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Thank you for your answer. I was checking only Google maps. So I didn't realize the dual carriageway.


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## mcarling

From Katowice (Pyrzowice) to Piotrkow Trybunalski the DK1 is dual carriageway, but it is far from motorway or expressway standards. We'll have to wait about five or so years for the A1 to be completed to motorway standards along this stretch.


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## ukraroad

^^You just have to magnify it so you could see it.


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## kostas97

Chris80678 said:


> Maciek_CK said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's THE motorway we've all been waiting for:
> 
> Along with A4 Rzeszów to Jaroslaw (opening in a few weeks time :cheers
> 
> 
> 
> I thought it was due to open in 2017, is it really going to open that soon(!)?
Click to expand...


----------



## kostas97

vespafrederic said:


> I was checking Google Maps, and there the road is marked "1" not "A1", that is why I don't realize the presence of a motorway.


I think that is because it is a motorway-profile state road (correct me if i'm wrong)


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## ukraroad

I'm sorry I'm off the feast-topic, could anybody give me some plans of S6 from Wicimice to Nowogard bypass(east) and from there to Goleniów Północ? OSM did not put it as u/c yet. Thank you


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## kostas97

According to Wikipedia, the Katowice North-Czestochowa segment of the A1 is under construction, is that true?


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## Chris80678

kostas97 said:


> According to Wikipedia, the Katowice North-Czestochowa segment of the A1 is under construction, is that true?


Yes

I edited the Wikipedia page for A1 motorway (Poland) myself today following today's opening


----------



## mcarling

kostas97 said:


> According to Wikipedia, the Katowice North-Czestochowa segment of the A1 is under construction, is that true?


The construction contracts were signed a few months ago. I imagine they have begun the earthworks.


----------



## rakcancer

Kanadzie said:


> class DK 44 as a lower priority?


Would that lower traffic, noise or solve problem with ashes? I don't think so.


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Wasn't it a possibility to build the access road to Oświęcim on the north side of the town, farther from Auschwitz?


 Hard to say, I did not have the opportunity to evaluate all analyzed alignments. 

And keep in mind that actually it is not an access road, but bypass of the city and several villages between Bieruń and Oświęcim. DK44 is an important regional road connecting Lesser Poland and Upper Silesia. If you look to the west, around Bieruń, Tychy (FIAT plant), its a 2x2 highway.

I made a sketch of S1 and DK44 around Oświęcim on this map: http://mapa.miastodukty.pl/

In the window to the right tick "Drogi krajowe, wybrane regionalne i miejskie" and zoom to Oświęcim.


----------



## Strzala

*Expressway S12 - second stage of Puławy bypass/connection with S17:*




> Part of excavations from bronze age (1500 years ago) & stone age (10 000 years ago):
> 
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> http://s17-pulawy.pl/index.php/10-galeria/77-czerwiec-2016


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## Urbanista1

it always amazes me how archeologists know where to dig, or is it just luck sometimes like that Viking horde found by a farmer in England.


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## Innsertnamehere

I know the archeological process in Canada involves various "stages" - stage one is required which is a basic review of records to see if there is any potential of archeological artefacts. They look at known native travel routes, historic maps, etc.. Stage 2 is a visual inspection of the site, stage 3 is small digs made at specific intervals across the site, stage 4 a full on archeological dig. Projects only go to the stage deemed required, though all must go through stage 1.

It might be a bit more difficult for Europe though given the much deeper levels of history. Most of Canada only has 200 years of European history, and Native American history before that is very poorly recorded and leaves very little in terms of artefacts.


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## toonczyk

Innsertnamehere said:


> It might be a bit more difficult for Europe though given the much deeper levels of history. Most of Canada only has 200 years of European history, and Native American history before that is very poorly recorded and leaves very little in terms of artefacts.


In Poland if you just picked a spot at random and started digging, there's actually a pretty good chance you'd find something. People have been farming these lands for some 7000 years, so there's a lot of stuff buried around. The trick is to find stuff that has any historical value, not just a bucket used to carry manure in 15th century


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## pmaciej7

*A1 Strykow - Rzgow*














































































































More: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=133861920#post133861920


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## Chris80678

Such beautiful, clear motorway exit signage - I love it :cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

If only they would use the exit / interchange symbol more consistently and correctly.

Advance signs use the interchange symbol. Exit signs use the exit symbol. And the exit symbol is also used at the A1-S8 interchange. Distance signs use the interchange symbol for regular exits.

Have they rolled the exit numbering out more broadly now? I've seen those exit numbers in the Łódź and Kowal area.


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## ukraroad

^^At least I haven't seen them on A4 at all


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## rakcancer

ChrisZwolle said:


> If only they would use the exit / interchange symbol more consistently and correctly.
> 
> Advance signs use the interchange symbol. Exit signs use the exit symbol. And the exit symbol is also used at the A1-S8 interchange. Distance signs use the interchange symbol for regular exits.
> 
> Have they rolled the exit numbering out more broadly now? I've seen those exit numbers in the Łódź and Kowal area.


Adding to that comment: there is too much info on on each sign. Too many names, numbers...almost like there is a need to use as much sign space as possible and fill it all the way from the top to the bottom... Just put the name of exit, number and arrow - clear and big. There is no need to put on exit signs info about what is to be expected far ahead.


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## Kpc21

Chris80678 said:


> Such beautiful, clear motorway exit signage - I love it :cheers:


This is still experimental signage, used only on a section (luckily quite long) of the A1. But it is going to be introduced officialy to the regulations.

There is a project created a few years ago by Polish SSC users:
http://drogowskazclassic.pl/przyklady.php
http://drogowskazclassic.pl/wezel.php
(descriptions are Polish-only, but Google Translate may help if you want to read that)

And, I am not sure about that, but from I know, this signage introduced on the A1 is actually a result of trying to persuade the clerks in the government to introduce the SSC project. They couldn't agree to introduce everything, but it's anyway much better than what we had before.



ukraroad said:


> ^^At least I haven't seen them on A4 at all


Yes, because it's still experimental signage.


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## Blackraven

pmaciej7 said:


>


I know it's pronounced as "Vrotz-waff".........but I still like saying it as "Row-Claw". It sounds cute imho 

:nuts::lol::cheers::banana:


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## Chris80678

Wroclaw (Vrotswav) is where I would like to go this year for a visit because it is the European Capital of Culture for 2016


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## ukraroad

Blackraven said:


> I know it's pronounced as "Vrotz-waff".........but I still like saying it as "Row-Claw". It sounds cute imho
> ...


What about ŁÓDŹ? It is even better. In easter Slavic nations it is called Лодзь(Lodz)


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## mr.cool

Are there any documents showing how much of Poland's budget has been spent already from their new EU budget (2014-2020) on contracts? 

Also, are there any new contracts to be signed in the coming weeks/months of 2016?


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## ufonut

Experimental signage is currently on 2 sections of A1, one north of A1/A2 interchange between Lodz and Torun and one near Lodz.

The first one you can see here:










The second one (introduced on A1 bypass of Lodz) is here:










Can you spot any differences ?

Look at the directional arrows on both signs. They have been "fattened up" to be better visible to the drivers. This was one of the requests/recommendations to GDDKiA coming from our forum


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## Kanadzie

^^ wow :lol:

Now you just need to get them to use the American arrow style and we will be set


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## Kpc21

ukraroad said:


> What about ŁÓDŹ? It is even better. In easter Slavic nations it is called Лодзь(Lodz)


More or less "Wooch".

Лодзь in the Cyrilic alphabet is also good. Although nowadays Лудзь would be a better equivalent. It's the issue of language evolution. The letter ó used to denote a long o in the past, but the pronounciation has shifted towards u throughout the time, and now, from around 1900, it's pronounced exactly in the same way as u (oo in English). By the way, I suppose that the history of the English "oo" was similar, although in English just the u is often pronounced as "yu", which doesn't happen in Polish.

Wooch would be almost ideal, except for that "ch". In Polish we have sounds "cz" and "ć", which are both similar to the English "ch" (like in cherry). English "ch" is close to Polish "cz", but it goes a little bit towards Polish "ć". "Cz" and "ć" are pronounced in a similar way, but for "cz" you have your tongue near your teeth, for "ć" it touches the roof of your mouth (palate).

Actually, in the word Łódź you have its "tougher" equivalent, not "cz" and "ć" (being equivalent of English "ch" like in cherry), but "dż" and "dź" (being equivalent of English "j" like in Jedi or jungle). It is, however, difficult to pronounce at the end of a word, and that's why it "automatically" changes to the first one in pronounciation (so it's pronounced almost like Łóć or Łuć). In the declination forms, where you have vowels added to this name (e.g. Łodzi), you can hear the proper dź and not ć sound (in pronounciation it's Łodźi, but this strike over a letter is never written when there is i after it).

In the Cyrylic alphabet, the change from "cz" to "ć", from "dż" to "dź", and all the other so called softenings of cosonants, are denoted by the soft sign ь written after the cosonant.

See here: http://pl.forvo.com/word/jungle/#en
Most of the users pronounce the word "jungle" so that it would be written "dżangl" in Polish, but in case of the user cab22 the pronounciation is much more like "dziangl" - this is the kind of "j" which you have in the name Łódź.

Or here: http://pl.forvo.com/word/cherry/#en
Most of the users pronounce the word "cherry" with "cz", but rdbedsole and susan1430 do it with a cosonant which is very close to "ć". And this is how you should pronounce the name Łódź.

By the way, Ł also used to be something close to L in the past, but now it's the same sound as English W. In Russian, its equivalent is the letter Л, which is pronounced between Polish L and Ł (or English L and W).

Let's end the offtopic.



ufonut said:


> Experimental signage is currently on 2 sections of A1, one north of A1/A2 interchange between Lodz and Torun and one near Lodz.
> 
> The first one you can see here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The second one (introduced on A1 bypass of Lodz) is here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you spot any differences ?
> 
> Look at the directional arrows on both signs. They have been "fattened up" to be better visible to the drivers. This was one of the requests/recommendations to GDDKiA coming from our forum


Yes! I could see that these new signs (from the Stryków-Tuszyn section) are somehow better then the old-new (from the Toruń-Stryków section), but I couldn't tell why. Now I can see! The new version has the SSC arrows!

Now they have to understand the difference between both interchange symbols! The two types of interchanges are even distinguished by Polish law (the interchanges that are "collision-free" on both roads, so usually interchanges between two highways, or between a motorway and an expressway, are denoted as the WA-type, the interchanges that are "collision-free" only on one of the roads, and are a roundabout or just a pair of normal intersections on the other road, so usually interchanges between a motorway/expressway and a normal road, are denoted as the WB-type), but noone thinks about using different symbols for them, like in the whole Europe, or at least in Gemany... Instead of that, they use the German symbols in other meanings. The "WA" symbol (in German: Autobahnkreuz) denotes the whole interchange, while the "WB" symbol (in German: Anschlussstelle) denotes just a single exit within the interchange.


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## michael_siberia

> Part of excavations from *bronze age (1500 years ago)* & stone age (10 000 years ago):


icard: 1500 years ago was 516 AD - 30 years after falling down of the western part of the Roman Empire.


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## uunxx

michael_siberia said:


> icard: 1500 years ago was 516 AD - 30 years after falling down of the western part of the Roman Empire.


Of course they are from 1500 B.C., not 1500 years ago.
http://www.kurierlubelski.pl/wiadom...rywala-skarby-maja-nawet-10-000-lat,10110064/


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## Nowax

[A4] Rzeszów - Korczowa



jarfi said:


> WA9


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## Nowax

S7 - Eastern bypass of Krakow




pacio20 said:


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## ChrisZwolle

Why is A4 near Przeworsk taking so long to be completed? Google Earth imagery from August 2013 (3 years ago) already show these arch bridges in an advanced stage of construction (decks completed and arches raised).


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## ukraroad

^^There were faults with the bridge here. That is why it was last delayed from May to August 2016. It is said that the previous contractor had made mistakes in the construction so grave that it could fall(weak cables) while traffic went


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## witos

It's not so obvious - we still oficially don't know who made worse and critical mistakes: contractor or designer. I think both, because there have been found some deviations in construction, but desing was also full of mistakes, e.g. cross section of arch was too small, whole object was not enough stiff and much more.

You can find more information about recovery program in polish thread of A4:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=130295098&postcount=9975
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=130295111&postcount=9976
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=130295119&postcount=9977


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## Chris80678

witos said:


> It's not so obvious - we still oficially don't know who made worse and critical mistakes: contractor or designer. I think both, because there have been found some deviations in construction, but desing was also full of mistakes, e.g. cross section of arch was too small, whole object was not enough stiff and much more]
> 
> Main thing is that it is being fixed now and will be safe for drivers to use


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## Kemo

First construction works started on:
*S3*: Legnica-South (A4) - Jawor-East 19.7km (June 2016 to October 2018) – project – map


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## Kemo

Regional road 747, modernised in years 2013-2015. New access road to Lublin from the west. A new bridge over Vistula and several bypasses of towns and villages were built. Last section near Lublin (access to S19) is yet to be built. Very nice to drive :cheers: Wish we had more road like this. 





(actual DW747 starts from 1:12)

__________
Project websites for MichiH's list:
S5: Lipno – Leszno-South: http://www.radomicko-leszno.drogas5.pl/
S5: Leszno-South – Rydzyna: http://www.leszno-kaczkowo.drogas5.pl/
(these two are not ready yet)

S6: Bielice (S11) – Sianow-East: http://www.s6-obwodnicakoszalina.pl/index.php
S11: Bielice (S6) – Koszalin-West: http://www.s6-obwodnicakoszalina.pl/index.php


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## Luki_SL

^^The other sections of 747 road should be modernized or built (for example Lipsko bypass) in the next few years.


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## ukraroad

Any exact dates for A4 opening? It is said the opening is somewhere this month, but no exact date of ribbon-cutting! Why is it that? Again delay?


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## Kemo

20th July. Full profile between Rzeszów-East and Przeworsk, one carriageway between Przeworsk and Jarosław-West.


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## nghtm

*Upper Silesian roads:*

1. Tychy - Gliwice (DK86 + A4 + A1)
map: https://goo.gl/maps/prUC97s7F6A2





2. Gliwice - Katowice
map: https://goo.gl/maps/QbfgiVB85tw


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## Kemo

Junction Miłomłyn-North and 1 km of S7 motorway was opened today (here). (A second carriageway and two ramps were added.)









Source: http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/22632/Wezel-Milomlyn-Polnoc-udostepniony-kierowcom

In case MichiH would like to take this into account on his list, here it is:

*S7*: north of Milomlyn-North – south of Milomlyn-North 1.0km (November 2014 to 18th July 2016) [2nd c/w] – project – map
*S7*: south of Milomlyn-North – Milomlyn-South 3.1km (November 2014 to April 2017) [2nd c/w] – project – map
*S7*: Milomlyn-South – Ostroda-North 5.1km (November 2014 to April 2017)

By the way, the link to the map and section lengths were wrong.

_____________________________________

First construction works started on A1 near Częstochowa:
*A1*: Częstochowa-Blachownia – Częstochowa-South 4.7km (July 2016 to November 2018) – project – map


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## ukraroad

First work Started on the Olsztyn southern bypass(eastern part):
*DK16*(future S16) - 14.7 km - Olsztyn-South-Olsztyn-East - July 2016 - April 2019


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Also S51.


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## Kemo

ukraroad said:


> First work Started on the Olsztyn southern bypass(eastern part):
> *DK16*(future S16) - 14.7 km - Olsztyn-South-Olsztyn-East - July 2016 - April 2019


Not sure if we can call it "first works" 










This section is going to be signed as S51, not S16. S16 will start at junction Olsztyn-East.


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## Kemo

A4 is opened all the way drom PL/D border to PL/UA border :banana:


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## ChrisZwolle

There used to be a kilometer marker jump on A4 near Balice (from 401 to 411). When was this corrected? In 2015?


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## Uppsala

Kemo said:


> A4 is opened all the way drom PL/D border to PL/UA border :banana:



Congratulations Poland! Thats nice! :happy: :cheers:

This is important for Poland, Ukraine and a big part of Europe. This means it is a very big and important day at European motorway history :happy:

After the Poland–Ukraine border there is a dual carriageway on the Ukrainian side some kilometers close to the border, then the road is going to be a normal old single road. I think this dual carriageway on the Ukrainian side is the last part of this long motorway. But one day, maybe Ukraine is going to continue this motorway on the Ukrainian side to Lviv


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## Maciek_CK

Rombi said:


> Sorry but seems that because of the sea Tricity will never have full ring road.
> Captain obvious had to enter...


Are you sure about that?


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## rakcancer

ukraroad said:


> I don't wish, however, that these cities had 20 mln people - 600000 is just fine.


They have over 800 000 plus satellite towns like Rumia, Reda, Wejherowo, Pruszcz Gdanski... makes it almost 1mln people. 3rd biggest metropolitan area in Poland


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## Rombi

Del


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## Rombi

Maciek_CK said:


> Are you sure about that?


What you put is sth totally different. I know that there huge bridges over sea level in the world, but just keep in mind that we have here some curorts, huge sea traffic in a bay and not much space. Not adding that it would be useless because we have Tricity Landscape Park on the east side of Tricity so cities simply would have to expand toward east (sea) direction to make such a investition reasonable at all


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## Maciek_CK

^^I'm just messing with you .


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## Kemo

ukraroad said:


> Well, I meant that the S6(Trójmiasto bypass) can't be a half-ring because for that there should be a road bypassing the Obłuże district in Gdynia. So that the half ring is that road+Trójmiasto bypass+S7 to DK89+ DK89 itself.


A ringroad of Gdańsk is planned,. It already exists up to this point, and there is space reservation further north. But the city activists strongly oppose to construction of the missing section (through Przymorze).


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## ukraroad

^^Of course, as it goes through Gdańsk historical center


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## rakcancer

It doesn't go through historical center, but it goes along the skirts of densely populated residential areas and honestly makes no sense as S standard road, it would be just very convenient connection to Sopot. The only sense for Sopot would be in my opinion to widen Spacerowa street from S6 to Aleja Grunwaldzka (DW 468) along with new tunnel under Pacholek mountain... but of course it is costly.


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## Agusia

Some pitcs from S7 (a part of Krakow ring road, bridge over the Vistula River).

1.









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## Agusia

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## Agusia

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## Agusia

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## Agusia

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## Agusia

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## Agusia

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## Agusia

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## Agusia

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## Agusia

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60. Every white shroud contains over thirty tight ropes.









61. Every tight rope contains seven smaller rope.









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## Agusia

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## Agusia

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101. This is the hole for shroud and for small tight ropes. 









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That's all Folks!


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## Kemo

Photos from the project website

S7, Szydłowiec South


















near Szydłowiec North









rest area









Wildlife crossing (and Świętokrzyskie Mountains in the distance)


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## Kemo

The viaduct on A4 near Jarosław was fully opened today. Two carriageways are available all the way from PL/D border to PL/UA border.

_____

For MichiH's list:
S6: Bielice (S11) – Sianow-East http://www.s6-obwodnicakoszalina.pl/
S11: Bielice (S6) – Koszalin-West http://www.s6-obwodnicakoszalina.pl/
S8: Ostrow Mazowiecka-North – Prosienica http://www.s8ostrow.pl/
S5: Lipno – Leszno-South http://radomicko-leszno-drogas5.pl/
S5: Leszno-South – Rydzyna http://leszno-kaczkowo-drogas5.pl/


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## Luki_SL

S5 expressway construction, section Wrocław-Korzeńsko, aerial photos : 

Part 1 : 


Kazusik said:


>


http://www.s5korzensko-wroclaw.pl


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## Luki_SL

Part 2 : 


Kazusik said:


> _w. Żmigródek - widok w kier. WS-10_
> 
> 
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> _WD-11 na w. Żmidróg_
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> _WS-12_


http://www.s5korzensko-wroclaw.pl


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## Luki_SL

Part 3 : 


Kazusik said:


> _Rejon tymczasowego przejazdu dla DP 1328
> _
> 
> 
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> _Rejon MS-14 - w dali WD-13_


The end.

http://www.s5korzensko-wroclaw.pl/


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## Kemo

DK74, bypass of Bełchatów. Deadline is April 2017 but the road is almost completed:


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## ufonut

S51 Olsztynek-Olsztyn


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## 8166UY

I hope there will be sound barriers for that village, or else it will be a proper hell to live there.


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## rakcancer

Don't you worry there will be a plenty of noise barriers, on the right, on the left and who knows maybe further up in the middle of forest. No single squirrel will hear any car...


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## Kemo

Bypass of Mężenin was opened today on S8 Warszawa - Białystok

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/53.0850/22.4636

It is still a construction site, with only one carriageway and 60 km/h speed limit.
This section should be completed in December.


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## MichiH

^^ Two-way traffic or open in one (which?) direction only?


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## Kemo

Two-way.
BTW, it is about 4 km long (from km 597+600 to km 601+700 <contract boundary>)


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## rakcancer

Google Maps for some reason is back in showing only "A" roads in Poland as a "proper" and only motorways when zoomed out.... "S" - expressways even that they would be consider as motorways standard everywhere else in Europe look in Google Maps just like regular roads. In results Poland is a road desert in Europe according to them...:gunz:


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## mcarling

rakcancer said:


> Google Maps for some reason is back in showing only "A" roads in Poland as a "proper" and only motorways when zoomed out.... "S" - expressways even that they would be consider as motorways standard everywhere else in Europe look in Google Maps just like regular roads. In results Poland is a road desert in Europe according to them.


Apple Maps is much better than Google Maps.


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## SRC_100

rakcancer said:


> Google Maps for some reason is back in showing only "A" roads in Poland as a "proper" and only motorways when zoomed out.... "S" - expressways even that they would be consider as motorways standard everywhere else in Europe look in Google Maps just like regular roads. In results Poland is a road desert in Europe according to them...:gunz:


Who cares?! 
Don't you have any other problems?


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## Exethalion

SRC_100 said:


> Who cares?!
> Don't you have any other problems?


I didn't know this subforum was only for life-and-death serious issues.


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## SRC_100

^^
This thread is not meant to grumble because of irrelevant crap, right?


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## Kemo

rakcancer said:


> Google Maps for some reason is back in showing only "A" roads in Poland as a "proper" and only motorways when zoomed out.... "S" - expressways even that they would be consider as motorways standard everywhere else in Europe look in Google Maps just like regular roads. In results Poland is a road desert in Europe according to them...:gunz:


I don't think that any online map shows Polish S roads the same way as Polish A roads... and yes, I agree that it is nonsense.

(But if you take a closer look at S7 south of Kraków and S8 Wrocław - Oleśnica, they are displayed as "A" roads... I somehow managed to change that on GMaps)



MichiH said:


> Unfortunately, the list contains 2x2 and 1x4 roads. Are the underlined roads 2x2?


No, it just indicates what was updated.


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## LMB

rakcancer said:


> Google Maps for some reason is back in showing only "A" roads in Poland as a "proper" and only motorways when zoomed out.... "S" - expressways even that they would be consider as motorways standard everywhere else in Europe look in Google Maps just like regular roads. In results Poland is a road desert in Europe according to them...:gunz:


This dates to a few years back, and is actually due to a problem with the Polish mappers at OpenStreetMap. They insisted they want motorways with the "S" standard mapped as inferior roads. I tried to talk sense into them, but had to give up. 

Now Google copies OSM without much editing, if any.


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## Bod789

A roads and S roads are very close, both are 2x2 (usually), but S roads didn't have much infrastructure like A roads


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## Exethalion

SRC_100 said:


> ^^
> This thread is not meant to grumble because of irrelevant crap, right?


I think it's relevant. I don't know if there is a Google Maps thread anywhere, but the issue certainly concerns Polish Roads, and it really wouldn't pain you to expend the few millijoules required to scroll past his comment to the next one.


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## POLAMCO

rakcancer said:


> Google Maps for some reason is back in showing only "A" roads in Poland as a "proper" and only motorways when zoomed out.... "S" - expressways even that they would be consider as motorways standard everywhere else in Europe look in Google Maps just like regular roads. In results Poland is a road desert in Europe according to them...:gunz:


Google maps shows motorways first in every European country. It's not an issue in Poland too. Their route planner works very well and includes A and S roads in the first places. Google doesn't have to and won't make any exceptions, because someone feels insecure about how his country looks on the maps.


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## rakcancer

POLAMCO said:


> Google doesn't have to and won't make any exceptions, because someone feels insecure about how his country looks on the maps.


That is nothing to do with feeling insecure... Google Maps showed before S and A on the same level, now they switching back... Would be good if they stick to one rules instead of switching back and forward. And yes, because it is called S it doesn't mean it is not to be showed as motorways because some whatever open street maps morons decided to do so. Just dig a bit and look at what ridiculously crappy roads are marked as motorways in some other countries. So where is consistency? If you treat each country separately that may be OK but if you have open whole map of Europe or other wider region in front of you then it is simply incorrect and makes people confused. BUT, of course it is only for those who cares. I do.


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## Nowax

S7 - Krakow bypass



aigol said:


> http://s7botewaigolomska.pl/


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## arctic_carlos

rakcancer said:


> Google Maps for some reason is back in showing only "A" roads in Poland as a "proper" and only motorways when zoomed out.... "S" - expressways even that they would be consider as motorways standard everywhere else in Europe look in Google Maps just like regular roads. In results Poland is a road desert in Europe according to them...:gunz:


Sadly the same happens with Spanish _autovías_ since the last update of the site. Although only _autopistas_ are shown in Google Maps as proper motorways, both _autopistas_ (the Spanish equivalent to Polish "A" roads) and _autovías_ (the Spanish equivalent to Polish "S" expressways) have currently motorway standards (newly built _autovías_ are even better than old _autopistas_). That's why Spain also looks like a road desert in Google Maps. :lol:


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## rakcancer

^^ Spain is a good example. I was about to point your country out. Thanks for comment!


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## Bod789

Skrzyżowanie autostrad w Polsce
>>>

A1/A2 i A4/A1:


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## The Polwoman

rakcancer said:


> Google Maps for some reason is back in showing only "A" roads in Poland as a "proper" and only motorways when zoomed out.... "S" - expressways even that they would be consider as motorways standard everywhere else in Europe look in Google Maps just like regular roads. In results Poland is a road desert in Europe according to them...:gunz:


I have stopped seeing Google Maps as reference for a while now. They just colour the way they like to see it but without any practical thought in mind. It basically went from a website to explore every corner of the world to a app for questions like "where is the closest supermarket" only optimalised for androids. Speed went backwards a long time ago.

If you want to see a good _map _(no satellite views however), go to Openstreetmap.


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## Strzala

*S19 Western Lublin bypass:*



>


https://www.facebook.com/Lublin.zdj...1530355699733/564735627045868/?type=3&theater


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## Luki_SL

Bod789 said:


> Skrzyżowanie autostrad w Polsce
> >>>
> 
> A1/A2 i A4/A1:




The picture of A1/A4/44 interchange Gliwice Sośnica is very old. There is no A1 motorway the north of it.


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## LMB

Bod789 said:


> A roads and S roads are very close, both are 2x2 (usually), but S roads didn't have much infrastructure like A roads


The point is that S roads meet in 99% cases the common international criteria for motorways. 

I can show you a number of sections in Germany that are worse, or even that aren't an Autobahn, but are marked as such. First example: A620 that doesn't meet _any_ criteria: https://goo.gl/maps/FmB3ncxWBBC2


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## Kemo

Construction of S8 near Zambrów. DK8 here is an old concrete road constructed by the Germans that was later covered by asphalt. Now it ceases to exist.



Pol Bruk said:


>


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## MichiH

The Polman said:


> If you want to see a good _map _(no satellite views however), go to Openstreetmap.


You can easily switch from OSM to Google Satellite or Bing Satellite. Just use the best-in-class-map: http://wikimapia.org.


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## Kemo

Construction works are starting on the A1 Częstochowa bypass. There are traffic jams on DK1 at the site of Częstochowa-North intrechange because only 1x2 lanes are available hno:

A1: Częstochowa-North – Częstochowa-Blachownia 20.3km (September 2016 to April 2019) – project – map


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## mcarling

Kemo said:


> There are traffic jams on DK1 at the site of Częstochowa-North intrechange because only 1x2 lanes are available


That's a bad plan!! I hope that temporary arrangement will be for a very short time.


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## Kemo

*S3*, bypass of Międzyrzecz will probably be opened in full profile on Monday. There will still be speed limit (90 km/h) and the new junction Międzyrzecz-West will not be opened yet. It is planned to be fully opened in November.
And the contracted deadline is... June 2017.

Some photos by JacYk


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## Strzala

*S12 - second stage of Puławy bypass*/ connection with S17:










https://goo.gl/maps/1MMQ32Ab26A2


View on first stage with bridge over Wisła river:



















View on the other side, direction ----------> S17









Construction of bridge over Kurówka river:



















In the background Zakłady Azotowe Puławy (chemistry company)









Crossroad with DK17:




















Direction S17:










All photos from: http://s17-pulawy.pl/index.php/10-galeria/98-wrzesien


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## erykko

A few photos from ZOL (West Bypass of Lublin)



michal13 said:


> Nowe zdjęcia od wykonawcy:
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## Strzala

erykko said:


> A few photos from ZOL (*Southern* Bypass of Lublin)


? :hmm:


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## ChrisZwolle

Zachodnia = west / western, right?


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## Strzala

ChrisZwolle said:


> Zachodnia = west / western, right?


Yep.


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## erykko

Thanks. Now it's ok (I had too much alcohol in my brain  ).


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## MichiH

Kemo said:


> *S3*, bypass of Międzyrzecz will probably be opened in full profile on Monday.


It seems to be opened on Tuesday now...



Kemo said:


> ^^
> Chyba nie, więc Wiadomość dnia przedwczesna
> 
> 
> 
> W poniedziałek, 17 października, miała być otwarta obwodnica Międzyrzecza. Nie będzie. Wszystko wskazuje na to, że pojedziemy nią we wtorek, 18 października.
> Zapowiadaliśmy, że w poniedziałek, 17 października, koło Międzyrzecza pojedziemy już prościutko, obiema nitkami. Niestety, tak nie będzie. Trasa będzie prawdopodobnie otwarta we wtorek, 18 października. Dlaczego? Ano trzeba poczekać, żeby wykonawca przygotował drogę do jazdy.
> 
> Czytaj więcej: http://www.gazetalubuska.pl/wiadomos...17-r,10750530/
Click to expand...


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## Chris80678

S3, bypass of Międzyrzecz will probably be opened in full profile on Monday

Once opened, will this stretch of road be officially designated and signed as 
S3?


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## Kemo

No, we will have to wait until late November to have the "S" designation and 120 km/h speed limit.

PS
It will not be opened today. Maybe tomorrow.


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## Chris80678

After two false starts we await with abated breath .... as has been said on the Polish forum this bypass upgrade has been awaited for so many years that a few extra days of waiting won't make a difference, especially with one interchange not opening fully until late November


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## Kemo

...especially that they are 8 months ahead of schedule


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## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> ...especially that they are 8 months ahead of schedule


That is to be congratulated :cheers:


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## Strzala

Finish works on *S19 Western Lublin bypass*:




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## ChrisZwolle

Did they do the six-lane space reservation on the outside this time?


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## Kemo

Yes. This is an older design.

_______

DK74, bypass of Bełchatów










(This is an old image, the road is almost completed. 6 months ahead of schedule. And like S3 in Międzyrzecz and S19 Lublin bypass, this one was built by Budimex)


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## Chris80678

Budimex seem to be an excellent contractor in terms of early delivery of projects. Although opening of Belchatów bypass is dragging on now


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## ChrisZwolle

Kemo said:


> Yes. This is an older design.


Are there other motorways in Poland with a design like that? I don't recall seeing that, it's normally in the median.


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## SRC_100

^^
Similar solutions are on A1 near Toruń and S11 as west bypass of Poznań, probably there are other examples as well.


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## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> Are there other motorways in Poland with a design like that? I don't recall seeing that, it's normally in the median.


There are some motorways with space reservation on the outside (example: https://www.google.pl/maps/@53.4364...4!1s4uOL4N9nFcnVaeivzxb2ng!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), but the embankments are only wide for 2x2. So S19 is unique in this way.


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## Maciek_CK

Chris80678 said:


> Budimex seem to be an excellent contractor in terms of early delivery of projects. Although opening of Belchatów bypass is dragging on now


In case of S7 south of Jędrzejów they might face a delay. There was some talk last month that they were going to ask for more time due to unexpected ground issues (different from what was in the plan) and wrongly marked cemetery perimeter which called for redesigning of an access road.

In other news: second carriageway of Międzyrzecz bypass was opened yesterday. As was said, it's still a construction site, so no expressway signs yet.


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## Chris80678

Maciek_CK said:


> In case of S7 south of Jędrzejów they might face a delay. There was some talk last month that they were going to ask for more time due to unexpected ground issues (different from what was in the plan) and wrongly marked cemetery perimeter which called for redesigning of an access road.
> 
> In other news: second carriageway of Międzyrzecz bypass was opened yesterday. As was said, it's still a construction site, so no expressway signs yet.


Great news about opening of second carriageway of Międzyrzecz bypass :cheers:

Not so great news about S7 south of Jędrzejów hno:


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## Kemo

Tomorrow we may have a tiny motorway opening here:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/51.2065/22.4396

Someone already added it to OSM.

EDIT:
A movie by *AndyB666*






We can see that the new "experimental" signage was implemented on this section. The first time on a "S" class road (Such signage is now present only on A1 Toruń - Łódź)


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## Kemo

S8/S11 interchange, photo by *cotinus*. Existing DK11 is visible on the left, it has no connection with S8.



cotinus said:


>


Construction of the short section of S11 connecting DK11 with the existing, but inaccessible interchange should start soon.


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## Kemo

About 1,6 km of S19 was opened today 

https://www.google.pl/maps/@51.2042075,22.4438216,2748m/data=!3m1!1e3

(Well, formally this short section will not be signed as "S" until S19 further south gets built.)


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## Maciek_CK

^^Here come the pictures (credit goes to *Zegarkowy*):

starting point, looking south (-> Rzeszów)









and north. Experimental signage can be seen, first of its kind on an expressway


















approaching a wildlife crossing









the new and the old


















for the time being, this section will not be officially an expressway


















for now in Poland, zipper method is recommended. In 2-3 years it should become mandatory


















Lublin Węglin interchange









the road in the background will become DW 747 (voivodeship road) next year, which in distant future may become a DK (national road)


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## Strzala

Kemo said:


> Tomorrow we may have a tiny motorway opening here:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/51.2065/22.4396
> 
> Someone already added it to OSM.


Also signed at google maps:

https://goo.gl/maps/47Cwofor4Eu


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## RipleyLV

Maciek_CK said:


> ^^Here come the pictures (credit goes to *Zegarkowy*):


Interesting to see cable barriers on this new segment. Is this the new trend? Or is it for experimental purposes?


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## erykko

Who knows  I have seen a lot of cable barriers in Poland. But as you said it's rare. A lot of people want cable barriers, because they are cheaper (and popular in Scandinavia). But some people speak about one disadvantage - they could be more dangerous for motorcyclists.


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## Rebasepoiss

^^ I still don't quite understand how they're more dangerous to motorcyclists. If you fall and slide into a regular metal crash barrier you are going to hit the posts anyway (because the horizontal barrier is higher up).

I personally like the look of cable barriers but they do have a lot of give which means the central reservation can't be very narrow, otherwise a car or a truck plowing into the barrier is going to cross into incoming traffic anyway, at least briefly.


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## rav00

Rebasepoiss said:


> ^^ I still don't quite understand how they're more dangerous to motorcyclists. If you fall and slide into a regular metal crash barrier you are going to hit the posts anyway (because the horizontal barrier is higher up).
> 
> I personally like the look of cable barriers but they do have a lot of give which means the central reservation can't be very narrow, otherwise a car or a truck plowing into the barrier is going to cross into incoming traffic anyway, at least briefly.


It's not about the posts. Cable can cut someone in half.


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## ChrisZwolle

There is conflicting data on cable barriers. Sweden is using them on a large scale, while Norway banned its use in 2006. The Netherlands did not implement it after complaints from motorcyclists. 

There are also multiple types of cable barriers. Not all swing far into the other carriageway. Low-tension cable barriers will deflect traffic not as badly, reducing injury in the crashing vehicle, but potentially sending it into oncoming traffic. High-tension cable barriers will swing much less. 

Cross-over accidents are always widely reported in the media, increasing pressure to install concrete barriers. But while they are high-profile incidents, more flexible metal crash barriers will avoid a lot of injuries during small crashes, as small car crashes into the barrier are far more common than big semi-trucks crossing over into oncoming traffic. What you save in preventing rare cross-over incidents, you will lose it with the far more frequent small crashes.


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## Kemo

Construction permit was issued for the first section of Kępno bypass (I posted a photo of it on the same page)

S11: Kępno-North – Kępno-Krążkowy (S8) 4.1km (November 2016 to October 2018) – project – map


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## Strzala

S7 małopolskie/swietokrzyskie border -----> Jedrzejow:






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxQpKGgu97g


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## Strzala

Aerial view on junction 'Lublin Węglin' it's surroundings and short section of S19 Western Lublin bypass opened for traffic yesterday:



DarGog said:


> Widok z powietrza


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## erykko

Our user added a post with experimental signage on ZOL. 


Devilfish said:


> I na koniec bonus


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## MichiH

Kemo said:


> Construction permit was issued for the first section of Kępno bypass (I posted a photo of it on the same page)
> 
> S11: Kępno-North – Kępno-Krążkowy (S8) 4.1km (November 2016 to October 2018) – project – map


I guess "October 2018" is a typo because the contract deadline should be 7th August 2018 and expected opening date is indicated "VIII 18" on your map


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## Kemo

It confuses me too. Because all forum statistics state that the deadline is in August. But the contract website states October... probably the forum statistics are wrong.
But anyway, this is Budimex and a relatively short and simple section, so I guess it will be completed way ahead of schedule


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## Luki_SL

Fall on the A4 motorway near Krakow,



sprenzynaKRK said:


> 85. Nasza kochana A4 w okolicy Brzoskwini.
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## Strzala

S12 second stage of Pulawy bypass/connection with S17 in Kurow, aerial photos from 6th October:



miras said:


> *Zdjęcia lotnicze z 6 października 2016* (wybrane)
> http://s17-pulawy.pl/index.php/10-galeria/104-pazdziernik-2016
> Opisy moje, więc nie mam absolutnej pewności
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> Widok na węzeł Kurów Zachód i odnogę do Puław - kierunek na wschód
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> Za węzłem Końskowola - kierunek zachód. Po prawej u dołu zdjęcia Operator Drona
> ze swoim dronowozem  Pozdrawiam!
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> Miejscowość Młynki widok w kierunku zachodnim. Po lewej dom Pana Romana - rzeczywiście jest bardzo blisko.
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> Bliżej budowa wiaduktu WD-07 w ciągu drogi ekspresowej, nad drogą powiatową Końskowola - Wronów km 17+375
> Dalej budowa WS/PZDd km 17+000
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> Źródło i więcej zdjęć: http://s17-pulawy.pl/index.php/10-galeria/104-pazdziernik-2016
> 
> Koniec :hi:


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## Luki_SL

*National Road 41/46*

Nysa bypass construction: http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/24001/Postep-prac-na-budowie-obwodnicy-Nysy



>


More photos : http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1658816&page=17


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## Kemo

A contract was signed with Budimex for construction of western part of Białystok ringroad (pink on the map):










This road will be grade-separated:





Another contract was signed (with Budimex, too) for widening of remaining sections of southern part of ringroad (violet on the map) to 2x2.

*DW669*: Białystok-aleja Jana Pawła II – Białystok-Wiadukt 10.0km (December 2016 to September 2018) – project – map


___________________
For MichiH:
This road will be renumbered to DK82 after S19 gets opened soon:
DK19: Lublin-Slawinek (S17/S19) – Lublin-Slawin 5.5km (August 2012 to 25th September 2014) – project – map


----------



## sponge_bob

Luki_SL said:


> Nysa bypass construction:
> More photos : http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1658816&page=17


Whats is this _not round_ roundabout thing.?? Is it a Polish 'feature' like the multicoloured bridges.


















I do like the drunken roundabout approach alignments though. Good way to slow traffic early.


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## VITORIA MAN

its a turbo one , i suppose


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## Luki_SL

^^Yes, it is.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

That's a turbo-roundabout and they've been a thing for quite some time now, especially in the Netherlands.


----------



## sponge_bob

VITORIA MAN said:


> its a turbo one , i suppose


Ah OK, http://www.turboroundabout.com/benefits.html


----------



## Luki_SL

^^ Chorzów


----------



## winnipeg

Hello everyone, sorry to bother you with my question, but this week-end I will be in Krakow and monday morning I will have to drive back to Budapest.... but I just saw that it is most likely to snow during sunday night, probably 1 or 2cm according to the weather forecast...

My question is : how this could affect the roads in southern Poland? (I know that in France even a very small quantity of snow is enough to block the road traffic)...

And (even if my car has snow tires) should I avoid the direct road throught Slovakia (maybe it will be hard to drive in the mountains beetwen Poland and Slovakia) and take the one through Katowice > Brno > Bratislava... without going through mountains (even if it will cost more and be longer...)?

Thanks!!! :yes:



(This is a map with the hight of snow avaited on monday morning...)


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## Proterra

You'll be fine. I commute from Nowy Targ to Kraków every day and most of the time there's no real problem on Zakopianka. Around Kraków there might be some issues, as they're not really used to snow/slush and many residents there drive year-round on summer tires. But as the snow line is expected at 800 metres on Sunday evening, lowering to 500 metres overnight and sea level on Monday morning, I don't expect any problems there either on Sunday.

Generally, Poland is quite good at keeping the roads driveable, more comparable to Bayern in my opinion than to Wallonia.


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## winnipeg

Okay, thanks a lot for those informations! :yes: :yes:


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## Chris80678

According to Openstreetmap the S19 Lublin western bypass is already fully open :lol:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/51.2359/22.4331

6th December is expected opening date!


----------



## MichiH

^^ It isn't. Zoom in, there's a dotted-line indicating the road is not in service...


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## erykko

ZOL (Western bypass of Lublin)


machu said:


> 1947.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1948.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1949. Wszystkie tablice na ZOL są już włączone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1950. Pracownicy po zachodniej stronie PG-1A.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1951. Większość przejazdów technicznych jest już zamknięta na kłódki.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1952. Basen trzeba jeszcze zalać masą.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1953. Aaa Tanio zapory sprzedam! Tylko odbiór osobisty. Tel. 19111
> 
> 
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> 1954.
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> 1955.
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> 1956.
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> 
> Cdn...


More pics: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1195867&page=1140

Only a few days to the opening (maybe tommorow or next day ).


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## erykko

S19 Lublin - Rzeszów



-SzaLeJot- said:


> 2259.
> 
> 
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> 2260.
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> 2261. WE 17 C
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> 2262.
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> 2263.
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> 2264.
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> 2265.
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> 2266.


More pics: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=136842076#post136842076


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## Chris80678

My mistake. I beg forgiveness


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## erykko

@Chris80678, forget about forgiveness


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## Chris80678

erykko said:


> @Chris80678, forget about forgiveness


I am just eager to see S19 Lublin western bypass and S8 (Zambrów - Mężenin) both open before the year is over


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## erykko

30.11.2016 - possible opening date of ZOL (but it's just a gossip).

A few photos from S12 - Puławy bypass:


http://s17-pulawy.pl/ said:


>


A little bit more: http://s17-pulawy.pl/index.php/10-galeria/110-listopad-2016


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## Kemo

Chris80678 said:


> I am just eager to see S19 Lublin western bypass and S8 (Zambrów - Mężenin) both open before the year is over


S7 Miłomłyn - Ostróda and S5 Korzeńsko - Żmigródek might also be opened in December.


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## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> It now depends on the clerks from Office of Building Control (or whatever that would be called in English) - how fast will they manage to check everything and issue the use permit (again, I don't know what is the correct phrase in English)


Thanks Kemo


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## Kemo

A contract was signed for design & construction of Bolków bypass (DK5) on the route Wrocław - Jelenia Góra - Liberec

Completion date: summer 2020


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## Kemo

Motorway *S7*, section Miłomłyn - Ostróda will be opened in full profile on Monday, 4 months ahead of schedule.


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## dugiPL

^^^^
Just opened https://www.facebook.com/gddkia/videos/vb.395151383870747/1352531608132715/?type=3&theater


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## Chris80678

On Thursday 22nd Dec it is planned to open 15 km of S8 expressway from the end of Zambrów bypass to Mężenin Podlasie :banana::cheers:

Source:  http://wyborcza.biz/biznes/1,147749,...kierowcow.html

Unofficially (and from an anonymous source) Belchatów bypass may finally open on Friday 23rd Dec 

Source:http://wyborcza.biz/biznes/1,147749,...kierowcow.html 
__________________


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## SRC_100

^^
errors...

to be delated later


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## Chris80678

SRC_100 said:


> ^^
> errors...
> 
> to be delated later


I did wonder why the articles made no reference to S8 or DK74 
and only to today's opening of S7 !


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## Strzala

S12 second stage of Puławy bypass:



miras said:


> CD z oficjalnej strony inwestycji: Źródło: http://s17-pulawy.pl/index.php/10-galeria/117-grudzien-2016
> 
> *GALERIA ZDJĘĆ
> Zdjęcia lotnicze*
> 
> [Widok na WD11 - w oddali węzeł Kurów Zachód]
> 
> 
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> [Spojrzenie w drugą stronę na MS-10 (km 22+024)]
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> [Gdzieś przed węzłem Końskowola (?) - spojrzenie na wschód]
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> [Na dole zdjęcia WD-07, dalej WS-06 widok na zachód - w prawym górnym rogu ZA Puławy]
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> [Zdjęcie z okolic węzła Puławy Wschód d.Michałówka - widok w kierunku wschodnim. Walec zagęszcza nowy przebieg DP 2505L]
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> [Z tego samego miejsca - widok w kierunku zachodnim, na węzeł Puławy Wschód. W oddali widać już trasę objazdu na czas budowy WD-04 na DW-824]
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> [Z okolic przejścia dla zwierząt - widok w kierunku w wschodnim - po lewej DD-04, która ma zastąpić istniejąca drogę wewnętrzna ZA]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> [Z tego samego miejsca widok w kierunku zachodnim, na przejście dla zwierząt - na dole widać już łącznik między DD-04, a objazdem wykonanym przed rozpoczęciem budowy przejścia]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> [Z okolic skrzyżowania Azoty I -widok w kierunku wschodnim - po prawej w oddali most na Kurówce MS-01]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> [Z tego samego miejsca - spojrzenie na zachód - wschodnia część wiaduktu kolejowego]
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> 
> 
> [Zachodnia (węższa) część wiaduktu kolejowego - po lewej nad ściana lasu widoczny łuk przęsła nurtowego mostu na Wiśle]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Źródło: http://s17-pulawy.pl/index.php/10-galeria/117-grudzien-2016
> 
> Dziś 19 grudnia 2016 roku pozostało 498 dni do końca budowy​


----------



## SRC_100

Don`t be scared, most of the smoke in picture below is just steam, others are cleaned (from e.g. ash, SOx and NOx) flue gases.












Chris80678 said:


> I did wonder why the articles made no reference to S8 or DK74
> and only to today's opening of S7 !


I meant wrong links to the newspaper articles


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## Kemo

Construction permit was issued for a section of S17 motorway:

S17: Skrudki – Kurów-West (S12) 13.2km (December 2016 to May 2019) – project – map

Map: http://s17-skrudki-kurow.pl/images/stories/schemat-przebiegu/schemat-przebiegu.png


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## Luki_SL

The S8 expressway construction. Section Zambrów bypass - border of the Mazovia and Podlasie voivodeship



es12077 said:


>


More photos/ from : http://s8grwojmaz-zambrow.pl/sesja-lotnicza-01-30-listopada-2016


----------



## Kemo

Chris80678 said:


> I didn't know S5 Korzeńsko - Żmigródek was so advanced and near to completion


Well, it isn't They are going to divert the traffic to a newly built carriageway tomorrow, but that doesn't count as a proper road opening.


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## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> Well, it isn't They are going to divert the traffic to a newly built carriageway tomorrow, but that doesn't count as a proper road opening.


Indeed, it doesn't


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## Kemo

los77 said:


> *S7 Ostróda Północ - Miłomłyn*


..


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## SRC_100

Christmas message of supervision form the construction of *this S8 stretch* 






Btw,

The most probably, opening of *S8 Wiśniewo - Mężenin* is planned on 22.Dec at 11.30 a.m.


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## Strzala

Second carriageway on S3 Międzyrzecz bypass:



> https://www.facebook.com/gddkia/posts/1354500867935789


----------



## Kemo

^^
Junction Międzyrzecz-West was opened today.

Weird fact: Międzyrzecz (18 000 inhabitants) has more motorway junctions than 6 times larger Tarnów (110 000 inhabitants).


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## Strzala

Kemo said:


> ^^
> Junction Międzyrzecz-West was opened today.
> 
> Weird fact: Międzyrzecz (18 000 inhabitants) has more motorway junctions than 6 times larger Tarnów (110 000 inhabitants).


I think You should also count junctions on Southern bypass of Tarnów (DK94) which is quite similiar to motorway:









https://goo.gl/maps/7Qg3wbNB49H2

and remember, that according to polish law distances between junctions on expressways (f.e. S3 Międzyrzecz bypass) can be shorter than distances between junctions on motorways (f.e. A4 Tarnów bypass).


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## Kemo

Strzala said:


> I think , You should also count junctions on Southern bypass of Tarnów (DK94) which is quite similiar to motorway:


Right, but these roads are not connected directly.



> and remember, that according to polish law distances between junctions on expressways (f.e. S3 Międzyrzecz bypass) can be shorter than distances between junctions on motorways (f.e. A4 Tarnów bypass).


The distance between junctions on S3 is even shorter (2,3 km) than allowed (3 km).
This is because bypass of Międzyrzecz was built 10 years ago as a single carriageway road with two junctions (at the beginning and at the end). But it was missing a connection with DW137 so later someone decided to add one more junction in the middle.


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## Kemo

DK74, bypass of Bełchatów, was opened today, 4 months ahead of schedule. This is on the route Piotrków Trybunalski - Wieluń (old route Warszawa - Wrocław)

Length: 10,9 km, 2+1 lanes, grade-separated, four interchanges.


----------



## Chris80678

Where is the list of expressway / motorways openings for 2017?

Merry Christmas and a fantastic new year to all forum users!


----------



## Luki_SL

^^Here  :



bebe.2006 said:


> *2017:*
> 
> *S 2x2:*
> 
> -S3 druga jezdnia ob. Gorzowa Wielkopolskiego .... 11,7 km.....09/2014 - 06/2017 ................................................ Dragados http://drogas3.pl/PL/86/Obwodnica_Gorzowa_Wlkp/#
> -S3 druga jezdnia Sulechów - Zielona Góra Północ 13,4 km.....04/2015 - 08/2017 ................................................... Strabag http://drogas3.pl/PL/172/Sulechow_-_Nowa_Sol/
> -S3 druga jezdnia Zielona Góra - Niadoradz .......... 13,3 km.....10/2015 - 06/2017 ........................ Budimex, Ferrovial Agroman
> -S5 Ostróda Południe - Ornowo ........................... 8,7 km .... 06/2015 - 08/2017 ............................................... Budimex
> -S5 Mielno - Gniezno ........................................ 18,3 km.....12/2014 - 07/2017 ........................ Budimex, Ferrovial Agroman http://www.znin-gniezno.drogas5.pl/
> -S5 Korzeńsko – Krościna ................................. 14,9 km.....07/2014 - 10/2017 ......................... Budimex - Heilit + Woerner
> -S5 Krościna - Marcinowo ................................. 13,8 km.....09/2014 - 12/2017 ............................................... Dragados
> -S5 Marcinowo - węzła Wrocław Północ (A8) ........ 19,3 km.....09/2014 - 12/2017 .................................................. Astaldi
> -S7 Ostróda Północ - Ostróda Południe ................. 9,7 km.....06/2015 - 08/2017 ....................... Budimex, Ferrovial Agroman http://www.s7milomlyn-olsztynek.pl/
> -S7 Ostróda Południe - Rychnowo ........................ 8,8 km.....04/2015 - 06/2017 ................. Strabag Infrastruktura Południe http://www.s7milomlyn-olsztynek.pl/
> -S7 Rychnowo - Olsztynek ................................ 11,3 km.....04/2015 - 06/2017 ................................................ Strabag http://www.s7milomlyn-olsztynek.pl/
> -S7 Nidzica Północ - Nidzica Południe ................... 9,1 km.....01/2015 - 05/2017 ................................................. Strabag
> -S7 Nidzica Południe - Napierki .......................... 13,6 km.....01/2015 - 05/2017 .................. Strabag Infrastruktura Południe
> -S7 Radom do granicy województwa ................... 22,0 km.....07/2014 - 04/2017 ............................................... Dragados http://www.s7radom-granica.pl/
> -S7 Chęciny – Jędrzejów .................................. 21,6 km.....06/2015 - 10/2017 ........................................... Salini Polska
> -S7 Jędrzejów - granica województwa ................ 19,9 km.....10/2014 - 05/2017 ................................................. Budimex
> -S7 Kraków: w. Rybitwy - w. Igołomska ................ 4,5 km.....07/2014 - 07/2017 .................... Strabag oraz Heilit + Woerner http://s7botewaigolomska.pl/
> -S8 w. Marki - w. Kobyłka .................................. 8,1 km .... 11/2014 - 07/2017 ................................................ Salini Polska
> -S8 w. Kobyłka - w. Radzymin Południe ................. 7,2 km .... 11/2014 - 07/2017 ....................................................... Astaldi
> -S8 granica województwa mazow. - Zambrów ...... 14,9 km .... 01/2015 - 07/2017 ................ Rubau Polska, Construcciones Rubau http://s8grwojmaz-zambrow.pl/
> -S11 obwodnica Jarocina .................................. 10,0 km .... 11/2014 - 07/2017 ...................................................... Budimex http://www.obwodnicajarocina.drogas11.pl/
> -S11 II. etap obwodnicy Ostrowa Wkp. ............... 12,8 km .... 10/2014 - 07/2017 ................................................... Mota-Engil http://www.obwodnicaostrowa.drogas11.pl/
> -S19 w. Świlcza (DK4) – Rzeszów Południe/Kielanówka 6,3 km....04/2014 - 08/2017 .................................. Eurovia Polska, Warbud www.s19swilcza-rzeszow-pld.pl
> -S51 Olsztyn – Olsztynek ................................. 13,3 km .... 02/2015 - 07/2017 ........................................ Energopol-Szczecin http://s51-olsztyn-olsztynek.pl/
> 
> Razem: ...................................................... *306,5 km*
> 
> 
> *S 1x2:*
> 
> -S19 w. Sokołów Małopolski Północ (bez węzła) – Stobierna ... 12,5 km.....06/2014 - 06/2017 ... Aldes Constructiones Polska Sp.o.o http://www.s19-sokolow-stobierna.pl/
> 
> Razem: ....................................................................... *12,5 km*
> 
> *______________________________*


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kemo said:


> DK74, bypass of Bełchatów, was opened today, 4 months ahead of schedule. This is on the route Piotrków Trybunalski - Wieluń (old route Warszawa - Wrocław)
> 
> Length: 10,9 km, 2+1 lanes, grade-separated, four interchanges.


Is this photo an illusion or are the arrows pointed against the flow of traffic?


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## rakcancer

Definitely illusion... It think this is about the same place, from polish forum:




mroofka said:


> To już ostatni odbiór. Można jechać.


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## masages21

Luki_SL said:


> ^^Here  :




Is this a list of opened motorways or just a list of tenders ? I dont think S5 Gniezno-Mielno section has been opened yet.


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## SRC_100

^^
*The list of expressway / motorways openings for 2017*


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## masages21

SRC_100 said:


> ^^
> *The list of expressway / motorways openings for 2017*




Yeah... but if you look at the above mentioned section or at the 2nd carriageway of S3 Zielona Góra bypass, you will figure out that they are not opened yet. So this is not a list of opened motorways.


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## MichiH

^^ We still have 2016. 2017 will begin in a week. The list contains FUTURE openings expected for 2017.

There's another list containing 2016 and 2017 openings: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=128578067&postcount=21


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## SRC_100

masages21 said:


> Yeah... but if you look at the above mentioned section or at the 2nd carriageway of S3 Zielona Góra bypass, you will figure out that they are not opened yet. So this is not a list of opened motorways.


:nuts:
Have we already got 2017?! No, we haven`t, so you need to read it carefully again and point out that we still have 2016... 
Other way, there are listed roads to be opened in 2017 according to schedule. Now do you understand?


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## masages21

SRC_100 said:


> :nuts:
> Have we already got 2017?! No, we haven`t, so you need to read it carefully again and point out that we still have 2016...
> Other way, there are listed roads to be opened in 2017 according to schedule. Now do you understand?




Thanks ! My bad.


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## michael_siberia

Video of recently opened section of S8 near Zambrow:



jamjest said:


>


----------



## Nowax

S7 - eastern bypass of Krakow


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## Strzala

S12 second stage of Puławy bypass/connection with S17:


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## Kemo

Good progress on DK15/DK25, bypass of Inowrocław (map). 19 km of a motorway-like road:

Junction with DK15 leading to Toruń









Junction with DW252



























Junction with DW412









Where new road meets the old DK15/DK25









...and this is what they are planning to build in this place: 









Complete nonsense hno:


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## PiRato

This is not true, The Solution targets will use the bridge object visible in the picture above drawing site plan

you will be pleased


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## Kemo

Construction permit was issued for bypass of Suwałki, part of the Via Baltica motorway.

*S61*: Suwałki-North – Suwałki-South 12.8km (February 2017 to April 2019) – project – map

Map: http://www.s61-obwodnica-suwalk.pl/map/mapka/obwodnicasuwalk.html


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## Eulanthe

Interesting point - I've just driven on the 'open' bit of S5 near Żmigród, and there's an exit number for Korzeńsko - does this mean that exit numbers will appear on all new expressways and motorways then?


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## Luki_SL

^^That`s experimental singage. The sections with _new sings _ (e.g exit number) are initiated with  this sign.
Most of new expressways and motorways should have an experimental singage


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## Kanadzie

^^ this warning sign, warning of signs is amusing :lol:


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## Nowax

S7 Krakow - Zakopane



DooCharles said:


> http://www.gazetakrakowska.pl/stref...rozpoczeto-drazenie-tunelu,11754902,22542872/


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## keber

^^ I believe this is just the second bored tunnel in Poland on main roads?


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## SRC_100

^^
This one is at least third.
Existing:
1. Emilia tunnel in Laliki on S1 b/n Żywiec and Zawardoń (PL/SK border);
2. Tunnel under Martwa Wisła in Gdańsk.


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## LMB

There isn't really the need for bored tunnels. The country is mostly flat.


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## SRC_100

^^
Mostly u`re right, especially when compared with Slovakia or Czechia, but there are places where tunnel or tunnels are needed.


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## Kpc21

We have mountains in the south.

Also the town of Świnoujście needs a tunnel under the Świna river. Currently a big part of this town, including its centre, can be accessed only by ferry or with a very big detour through Germany. And building a bridge (other than a very tall one, whose costs would be comparable with the costs of a tunnel or higher) is not possible since big ships to the port in Szczecin sail through there. It's a popular summer holiday resort and there are big traffic jams to the ferry in summer, it also sometimes happens that the ferry cannot sail because of weather.


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## Piotr1234

The construction of a new S6 road



JacYk said:


> *CD.*
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> *Dojeżdżamy do lotniska...*
> 
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> *cdn...*





JacYk said:


> *CD.*
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> *cdn...*





JacYk said:


> *CD.*
> 
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> *cdn...*




http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=431368&page=131


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## Kemo

Public money is being wasted on designing such absurd variants of S19 motorway north-east of Białystok like the blue one:










(Here's a larger picture of this area
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/53.4688/23.2841)


----------



## Kpc21

Designing? Isn't it one of variants prepared just for the consultations with citizens?

It seems that it's the only one which doesn't cross the forest east from the Janów municipality - maybe that's the point.


----------



## Kemo

Still, someone had to spend time to come up with this variant, draw it on the map and describe it in the documentation. This time could be better spent on doing the same activities for a variant that makes sense.


----------



## Wojtek1965

Kemo said:


> Still, someone had to spend time to come up with this variant, draw it on the map and describe it in the documentation. This time could be better spent on doing the same activities for a variant that makes sense.


Obtaining environmental decision requires the presentation of several variants of the route if my memory serves me well. The unavoidable inconvenience.


----------



## Kpc21

And sometimes the presented variants have only very minor differences and they look almost the same


----------



## Kanadzie

Kemo said:


> Still, someone had to spend time to come up with this variant, draw it on the map and describe it in the documentation. This time could be better spent on doing the same activities for a variant that makes sense.


Realistically... 2 hours at 100 zl/h ?


----------



## hammersklavier

SRC_100 said:


> ^^
> Mostly u`re right, especially when compared with Slovakia or Czechia, but there are places where tunnel or tunnels are needed.


What springs out the most to me on that topo map: The Vistula captured the Noteć's upper course sometime in the past near Bydgoszcz. Before then, the Noteć would have been the Warta basin's main stem ... and indeed, perhaps the main stem of what is now the Oder basin.


----------



## Kemo

This is actually an element of glacial series called Urstromtal, this specific one is Pradolina Toruńsko-Eberswaldzka (Thorn-Eberswalde Urstromtal)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urstromtal


----------



## Kemo

Tenders were launched for design and construction of 2 sections of Via Baltica motorway.
Szczuczyn - Stawiski 18 km
Stawiski - Kisielnica 16,4 km









(the two northmost sections)


----------



## Kemo

A construction permit for S6 was issued today:

S6: Kołobrzeg-West - Ustronie Morskie 14.7km (February 2017 to June 2019) – project – map

map: 









large version: http://www.gddkia.gov.pl/userfiles/...e-mor_16060/nowe/koł zachód ustronie plan.jpg


----------



## Kemo

A construction permit was issued for upgrading the last remaining section of old DK8 "Gierkówka" highway to motorway standard:

S8: Radziejowice - Przeszkoda 9.9km (February 2017 to July 2019) – project – map

map: 
http://www.s8radziejowice-paszkow.pl/files/plan_z1.pdf


----------



## rakcancer

^^ Finally!


----------



## Capt.Vimes

Guys, can you remind me with a few words what is the progress on A1 Pyrzowice-Czestochowa-Piotrkow Trybunalski. Thanks! :cheers:


----------



## bewu1

Pyrzowice - Czestochowa under construction. Czestochowa - Piotrków Tryb. is waiting.


----------



## rakcancer

Interesting visualization of *southern bypass of Warsaw (S2)*.
Unfortunately in polish only:

https://www.facebook.com/Wilanow.Dzielnica.m.st.Warszawa/videos/1332404103469921/


----------



## rakcancer

*DK20* Pomeranian Voivodeship - Kosciezyna town bypass. (GP standard road) is now half way to go.
Source:
http://www.rynekinfrastruktury.pl/wiadomosci/strabag-obwodnica-koscierzyny-na-polmetku--56568.html



Now visible in google satelite images: 


https://www.google.com/maps/@54.1144299,17.9815832,3487m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

Map of the project:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/54.1191/17.9954


----------



## Kemo

The government is going to cancel the tender for construction of S14 motorway, which is the western part of motorway ringroad around Łódź.
The offers turned out to be higher than GDDKiA's estimate. But the estimate was magically lowered within the last year... probably to get a convenient excuse for cancelling the tender.
This is what happens when you vote for populists who fritter public money by giving it away in order to buy support...

We'll see what will happen with other projects. At the moment we are still waiting for the decision about DK25 - bypass of Inowrocław. The offers were opened 2 months ago and they are slightly above GDDKiA's estimate.


----------



## Kpc21

They say they want to make a new tender first for the project, and then a new one for the construction...

Having the project ready.

Well, social benefits seems to be more important for our government than investment in road infrastructure. That's all.


----------



## [email protected]

Kpc21 said:


> They say they want to make a new tender first for the project, and then a new one for the construction...
> 
> Having the project ready.
> 
> Well, social benefits seems to be more important for our government than investment in road infrastructure. That's all.


Let's wait and give them a few years and then judge whether road infrastructure improved. The other government had 8 years, let's wait another 7 years before we start jumping to conclusions. It is just not fair and yes, I would expect my government to look after it's citizens in every way ... that is what it's there for 

One thing is guaranteed, this government will surely focus more on road investments in the east which the previous government neglected. They are determined to build the S-19 (Lithuania to Slovakia) which intends to connect the Baltics with Hungary and further south. The Via Baltica is to be completed as well (Lithuanian border to Warsaw).


----------



## rakcancer

Yeap, this is a shift to the east as it was easy to predict after latest election results. There is nothing wrong with building S61 or S16 or S19 but cancelling so important and so advanced already S14? That is a shame.


----------



## Kpc21

Especially taking into account that much money has been spent on S14 already.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Meanwhile Łódź has the worst traffic congestion in Europe.

http://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/trafficindex/list?citySize=ALL&continent=EU&country=ALL


----------



## Kpc21

I wouldn't say it's true - this result is caused by not entirely correct assumptions in the ranking. I would say, even Kraków is more congested than Łódź. But the problem of congestion nevertheless exists and it should be solved.

The main problems of the city seem to be:
- quite poor quality of the public transport (it's crowded and slow), especially concerning the trams
- a big part of the city (the eastern part) is divided by a railway line with too few roads crossing it (in a normal city there would be such a problem with a river, we don't have a river but we have a railway line instead)
- not really well-developed road network in the city - we don't have junctions in the city, until recently there was exactly two places with bridges/tunnels allowing to omit an intersection, now one of them got extended, but it doesn't help much since the cars get stuck in a jam at the first normal intersection after its end

Although since it's still usually much faster to travel within the city by car than by public transport, I wouldn't say it's really congested.

Lack of good connections with the highway ring is also a problem. The government should at least think about building a part of S14 allowing to bypass the Zgierz town. But the truth is that they won't do anything for Łódź since people living here support mostly the opposite political party. They have already taken from us an Airbus helicopter factory where helicopters for the Polish army were supposed to be constructed (they just broke a contract with Airbus for those helicopters).

The government is against Łódź and that's all.


----------



## Richard_P

ChrisZwolle said:


> Meanwhile Łódź has the worst traffic congestion in Europe.
> 
> http://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/trafficindex/list?citySize=ALL&continent=EU&country=ALL


 Frankly I quite don't believe those data. City is crisscrossed by wide at least 2x2 roads many of which are 3x3 and additionally most of the city is conveniently reached by extensive tram network. Even when A1 motorway wasn't finished it was hard to get stuck like for example is happening in Bydgoszcz where during peak hour You can lose one hour trying to leave the city because everything is completely stuck :cheers2:


----------



## Kpc21

There are places in Łódź where you can also lose one hour. Unless you know which streets at what time not to drive on.


----------



## sotonsi

There's a couple of elements here that don't add to the usefulness.

Firstly, Łódź has the least additional time in the top 5, but as journeys are shorter, it upped the percentage more:Łódź 46min per day average delay over fastest times
Bucharest 57min per day average delay over fastest times
Moscow 49min per day average delay over fastest times
Belfast 52min per day average delay over fastest times
Dublin 50min per day average delay over fastest times​
Secondly, I'd imagine the decent roads of Łódź would mean that its very fast during quiet hours, exacerbating that delay calculation. Somewhere like London has a lot of roads where its hard to go fast even at 4am (with a few roads that are exceptions) masks going slow somewhat as its less of a percentage reduction in traffic speeds. Dropping from 50km/h to 25km/h is the same as 25km/h to 12.5km/h on TomTom, but the latter feels far more congested.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I agree that London is likely significantly underrepresented due to the slow average travel times even during offpeak periods. TFL once stated that the average off-peak speed in London is 29 km/h (24 km/h during peak hours). That's probably worse than many cities during peak hour. In the Netherlands the threshold for the definition of motorway congestion is 50 km/h or lower over at least 2 kilometers.


----------



## Kemo

[email protected] said:


> Let's wait and give them a few years and then judge whether road infrastructure improved. The other government had 8 years, let's wait another 7 years before we start jumping to conclusions.


The road infrastructure will be improving, but it is a merit of the previous government. They left a well-functioning road construction machine, all the new government had to do was not to break it.
We can already conclude that in few years, when current constructions will finish, there will be a collapse in the sector of road construction.



> One thing is guaranteed, this government will surely focus more on road investments in the east which the previous government neglected. They are determined to build the S-19 (Lithuania to Slovakia) which intends to connect the Baltics with Hungary and further south. The Via Baltica is to be completed as well (Lithuanian border to Warsaw).


That's what they say, but so far these are only words, not actions. S19? It took them half a year to make a decision to ensure more money in a tender for design documentation of a short section of S19 south of Rzeszów. The tenders for S19 between Lublin and Rzeszów (launched by previous government, so the argument about "neglecting" is invalid) have been frozen for a year just like any other tenders. Via Baltica? A few months ago they promised that tenders for all remaining sections of S61 will be launched till the end of 2016 (BTW, they promised the same for A1). And what? In February they kindly launched two sections. 3 more to go, including the most important - Łomża bypass.

So yes, they do focus on road investments in the east, but only on talking about them.


----------



## Kpc21

sotonsi said:


> Secondly, I'd imagine the decent roads of Łódź would mean that its very fast during quiet hours, exacerbating that delay calculation.


That's the case.


----------



## Kanadzie

Kemo said:


> The road infrastructure will be improving, but it is a merit of the previous government. They left a well-functioning road construction machine, all the new government had to do was not to break it.
> We can already conclude that in few years, when current constructions will finish, there will be a collapse in the sector of road construction.


That isn't necessarily so bad though. PL has been very aggressive in building the most needed corridors. With everything "in the pipe" completed, there aren't so many major projects (at least nothing on the scale of A2, A4, A1, S8 etc etc).


----------



## Kemo

Still there is a lot to be done, because some regions don't have access to the motorway network. S10, S11, S12, S16 are all important but nowhere close to be completed.


----------



## Kpc21

They should, at least, start adding the third lane on the most busy roads (like A2 Łódź-Warszawa, A1 Łódź bypass), because they are already overcrowded.


----------



## rakcancer

When I asked on polish forum people that are deeply involved in related topic discussion why there is no 3rd lane build on A1 - Lodz bypass in first place, they answered that soon there will be S14 and problem will solve itself. There you go. Forget about S14. Now we have already overcrowded A1...
And there will be more cases like this for example S6 -Tricity bypass... no third lane and forget about another bypass, it will be canceled like S14 - that is my dark prediction...


----------



## Kpc21

It seems adding the third lane on the A1 would be too expensive because it's made of concrete. It will make sense in 30 years, when the concrete will have to be renovated.

Why was it made of concrete, so that it would not be possible to add the third lane easily? Because the S14 was going to be built soon.

So PiS should continue with S14 instead of showing weird excuses. But they need money for 500+...


----------



## Kemo

It is planned, but the completion date is set on Saint Never's Day (that's how we call it in Polish  )


----------



## Chris80678

When is the next major road opening in Poland?


----------



## Kpc21

Check here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=67459719&postcount=14










By the way, you have this: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=57782627&postcount=3










English version of the map (slightly less up to date, changelog to the Polish version: http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/zmiany.txt): http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/nowa-mapa_en.png


----------



## Kemo

Construction permit was issued for a section of S5 motorway Bydgoszcz - Poznań:

S5: Żnin-North - Mieleszyn 25.1km (April 2017 to August 2019) – project – map


----------



## Nowax

S7 Krakow - Eastern Bypass



xemir said:


>


----------



## Kemo

Deconstruction of one of the last original concrete Reichsautobahns.



JacYk said:


>


----------



## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> Deconstruction of one of the last original concrete Reichsautobahns.


Not the A18 from German / Polish border to A4?


----------



## Kpc21

No. DW142 Rzęśnica-Krzywnica. Near Szczecin.



















https://goo.gl/maps/accRSWRPiGP2


----------



## MajKeR_

Are they going to upgrade that stretch to some standard or just demolishing? I hope that the first option is that what has been chosen 

Edit: now I know, it's a pity that they don't plan upgrade it to some sort of expressway


----------



## Kpc21

Just leaving it as it is, with new road surface. Some exits are upgraded so as to make them safer.

You have probably read it already in the Polish section, I write it for the foreigners.


----------



## Nowax

S7 Lubien - Rabka section



Lokash said:


> More photos : http://podhale24.pl/aktualnosci/artykul/50503/Budowa_zakopianki_z_lotu_ptaka_zdjecia.html


----------



## Kemo

S5, bypass of Gniezno. Rumour has it that it may be opened in this month. It seems unlikely, but who knows...


----------



## Chris80678

S5 Gniezno bypass opening 2 months ahead of schedule - now that would be something :cheers:


----------



## Luki_SL

^^It`s only a rumour.


----------



## Chris80678

Luki_SL said:


> ^^It`s only a rumour.


I know that. The date being bandied around on the Polish forum for a possible opening is 28.04.17


----------



## Kemo

And now it seems possible, because all they need to do is to install vertical signage:



Maciej78 said:


>


----------



## Kemo

DK46 bypass of Nysa will probably be opened in June, half a year before schedule.




























The snowy mountain in the distance - I think it is Śnieżnik (1426 m)


----------



## Chris80678

Good news - go Poland!


----------



## Kemo

A contract was signed for construction of southern bypass of Rybnik (section DK78 - Żory)

DW935: Rybnik-Zamysłów - Żory 10.2km (April 2017 to November 2019) – project – map


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Is it a four lane expressway?


----------



## Luki_SL

^^It`s an urban expressway, something like DTŚ Gliwice-Katowice


----------



## Kemo




----------



## SRC_100

...and PROGRAM CONCEPTION FOR INVESTMENT of "CONSTRUCTION OF THE REGIONAL ROAD RACIBÓRZ-PSZCZYNA ON RYBNIK-ŻORY SECTION"

MAP


----------



## metacatfry

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like traffic between the A1 and this Rybnik bypass will have to pass through three roundabouts. I think that is unfortunate design, particularly since they are spending so much to make it grade separated the rest of the way.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^Yes, there won`t be new junction. To get to A1 from the Rybnik bypass you will have to pass through three roundabouts. There is to close to existing junction to built the new one.


----------



## roaddor

Is there a planned expressway between Wroclaw and Brno (CZ) through Bystrzyca Klodzka and Svitavy (CZ)?


----------



## Kemo

Not officially. But there are some concepts.










Last year a contract was signed for initial design works for DK8 Wrocław - Kłodzko (either upgrading or constructing a new alignment).


----------



## Kemo

Update on planned opening dates:

Ahead of schedule:
S5 Mieleszyn – Gniezno-South: 4th May
DK15 Latkowo – Markowice: June (probably)
DK46 Goświnowice - Nysa-North: June

Delayed:
S7 Szydłowiec-North – Skarzysko-Kamienna-North: June
S19 Sokolow Malopolski-North – Stobierna: August
S8 Marki – Radzymin: October


----------



## Nowax

S7 Krakow - Eastern Bypass



sprenzynaKRK said:


>


----------



## Kemo

S7 - today traffic was diverted to the new bypass of Szydłowiec (well, not that new since it was built in the old corridor). GDDKiA announces that the full opening will be in June.



czaro13 said:


>


----------



## Luki_SL

Road 86 towards Sosnowiec, near A4 interchange : 









By me

 Location


----------



## Kemo

Tenders were started for the two remaining sections of S61 "Via Baltica" motorway, between Łomża and Ostrów Mazowiecka.


----------



## ufonut

Nice photo by *miras*. This is S12 near Pulawy. It has this "Walking Dead" feel to it


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Cool photo 

But it is linked from the project website. In my experience they tend to stop operating once the project is completed, so all photos are lost. 

I've noticed this in the Dutch road forum where I frequently posted photos from project websites, and most of them turned dead after the project was completed.


----------



## Kpc21

So here is a reupload:










Source: http://s17-pulawy.pl/foto/zdjecia/kwiecien2017/DSC_66.JPG


----------



## Chris80678

According to targeo.pl the S5 Gniezno bypass is already open hno:


----------



## Kemo

It will be opened on thursday.


----------



## Chris80678

Thanks Kemo, I know that


----------



## Empp

Does anyone have any information regarding opening dates for 2 sections of S8 around Zambrow that are scheduled to be completed in July?
Is there a chance for any of them to opened before July 1st?


----------



## Kemo

There's no chance and they may even be delayed.
One photo how it looks like in some places:



Polbruk said:


>


_______

Construction permit was issued for a section of S5 motorway Bydgoszcz - Poznań:

S5: Szubin-North - Szubin-South 4.0km (May 2017 to May 2019) [2nd c/w] – project – map

S5: Szubin-South - Żnin-North 15.2km (May 2017 to May 2019) – project – map


----------



## Luki_SL

Chris80678 said:


> According to targeo.pl the S5 Gniezno bypass is already open hno:





Kemo said:


> It will be opened on thursday.


Expressway S5 Gniezno Bypass opens today officially. It`s 18,5 km road (2x2). Construction took 28 months, the new road was comleted 2 months ahead of schedule.


http://mib.gov.pl/2-514324a4ec938-1797718-p_1.htm


----------



## ufonut

New signage - photo by *Michal_Ch*










:nocrook:


----------



## Sponsor

Recent openings

[S 5] Gniezno bypass 





[74] Wieluń bypass (2+1)


----------



## Chris80678

Update on planned opening dates:

Ahead of schedule:

DK15 Latkowo – Markowice: June (probably) (Inowroclaw bypass stage 1)
DK46 Goświnowice - Nysa-North: June

Here's to the next openings :cheers:


----------



## Rusonaldo

S5 - Gniezno Bypass


----------



## Nowax

S7 Krakow - Eastern Bypass



tygrysiu14 said:


> https://www.facebook.com/krakowzlot...521018692690/1192178927560225/?type=3&theater


----------



## Kemo

DK15/25 Inowrocław bypass is almost completed and should be opened soon.




























Unfortunately, the ongoing tender for construction of the second section is going to be cancelled, because the country's budget starts lacking money...


----------



## Chris80678

Unfortunately, the ongoing tender for construction of the second section is going to be cancelled, because the country's budget starts lacking money...

That's bad news for north/southbound traffic coming to/from Bydgoszcz as they will still have to pass through Inowrocław or face a long detour via S10 bypassing Toruń :bash:


----------



## Kemo

^^
It's not that bad actually:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/direct...8.2888;52.8369,18.2100#map=13/52.8211/18.2495


----------



## Chris80678

Thanks Kemo


----------



## Kemo

Update on planned opening dates (all are delayed):

S7: Nidzica-North – Napierki: June 2017
S51: Olsztyn-South (DK16) – Olsztynek-East: December 2017
S7: Ostroda-South (S5) – Olsztynek-West (S51): August 2017
S8: Prosienica – Zambrow-West: October 2017
S8: Mezenin – Jezewo: December 2017
S7: Ostroda North – Ostroda-South (S5): December 2017
S5: Ostroda-South (S7) – Ornowo: December 2017
S7: Jedrzejow-East – Moczydlo: September 2017
S7: Kielce-South – Jedrzejow-North: Unknown. This is seriuosly delayed. I'd say Early 2018.
S5: Poznan-West (A2) – Mosina: Unknown. This is even more delayed. Mid 2018 seems likely if they don't kick the contractor out.


----------



## rakcancer

To whoever removed couple of previous posts: You may like or not like some opinions or questions asked but these posts were directly related to road infrastructure and followed other posts above. By removing them you just making yourself censor of this threat in worst term.


----------



## Kemo

S7, section Szydłowiec-South - Skarżysko-Kamienna-North (about 4,5 km) will be opened on Tuesday. It seems that full 2x2 profile will be available, but it's not yet the "final" opening (no







sign).






















































__________________

And BTW, a tender for a section of S6 motorway (Szczecin - Gdańsk) around Lębork was cancelled.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Szydłowiec-południe is Exit 79 apparently. 

Is the distance-based exit numbering scrapped now? I've read something about S7 near Grójec having exit numbers in the 400-range but they are not signed according to Street View.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^It`s an experimental singage. The exit number is counted sequentially from the first interchange (Gdańsk) to the last one

Dotted line - new motorway sections with experimental singage 



we_shine said:


> ^^


----------



## Sponsor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Szydłowiec-południe is Exit 79 apparently.
> 
> Is the distance-based exit numbering scrapped now? I've read something about S7 near Grójec having exit numbers in the 400-range but they are not signed according to Street View.


Never heard of that. There used to be distance-based exit numbers on old sections of A4 and A2.


----------



## MajKeR_

The experiment should be expanded with changing background of those signs into blue.


----------



## Kpc21

Sponsor said:


> Never heard of that. There used to be distance-based exit numbers on old sections of A4 and A2.


A long time ago. The scheme used before introduction of the "experimental signage" was just naming the interchanges, without using any numbers.


----------



## Chris80678

MajKeR_ said:


> The experiment should be expanded with changing background of those signs into blue.


In Poland blue is for motorway signs


----------



## Kpc21

Yes, but it should be blue also on expressways. Actually, most of the expressways should be converted to motorways, because they keep higher standards than many motorways in the western-European countries. And Poland looks so poor on Google Maps for example, which - at some levels of zoom - highlights motorways and doesn't highlight expressways, so that they look exactly like normal national roads...


----------



## MajKeR_

^^
^^









I would sponsor one pint of beer to anyone who could see the difference between modern Poland's motorway and expressway during driving with all the signage removed.


----------



## Janek0

For some you'd easily spot the difference, e.g. if you see a bus stop.


----------



## Kpc21

But only for some. Rather for those modernized from normal national roads, not for those built from scratch.


----------



## Kemo

Construction of Góra Kalwaria bypass (part of the so-called Warsaw Transit Ringroad) has begun.

DK50/DK79: Góra Kalwaria bypass 9.0km (May 2017 to November 2019) – project – map


----------



## LMB

Kpc21 said:


> But only for some. Rather for those modernized from normal national roads, not for those built from scratch.


Not if you take the German Autobahn as a standard. In many places in Germany, especially in Third World areas like Saarland, the "Autobahn" doesn't meet any standards. Examples: 
Curve too tight, 60km/h https://goo.gl/maps/k2vyhD4fy6K2 (which essentially means that minimum speed is 60km/h, maximum is 60km/h)
One (!) lane autobahn: https://goo.gl/maps/JnX8ffozX9L2
Incline 2× higher than allowed: https://goo.gl/maps/vE38N197fCp


----------



## SRC_100

Kemo said:


> Construction of Góra Kalwaria bypass (part of the so-called Warsaw Transit Ringroad) has begun.
> 
> DK50/DK79: Góra Kalwaria bypass 9.0km (May 2017 to November 2019) – project – map


It`s actually expressway/motorway standard road...


----------



## MajKeR_

^^ One can say that no, because of 2 meters wide emergency lanes. :nuts:


----------



## Kpc21

LMB said:


> Not if you take the German Autobahn as a standard. In many places in Germany, especially in Third World areas like Saarland, the "Autobahn" doesn't meet any standards. Examples:


So it's even more true that the Polish expressways should be marked as motorways.


----------



## [email protected]

Any updates from the construction of Warsaw's southern bypass? Have works started there?


----------



## Nowax

[A1] Częstochowa - Pyrzowice



B773 said:


> Rząsawa - Blachownia Section


----------



## Weissenberg

Hey folks, how's the progress on Klodzko bypass? I'll be venturing into these parts next month and was wondering if I should expect any difficulties caused by the ongoing construction. Also, from what I remember the bypass was supposed to offer some pretty good views over the area, though I doubt it's open already.


----------



## dugiPL

^^^^
Opening is expected in Autumn, latest pictures: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=140015316#post140015316


----------



## Kemo

[email protected] said:


> Any updates from the construction of Warsaw's southern bypass? Have works started there?


Works have started only in one spot - where the S2 tunnel will go below the Warsaw Metro tunnel.










Works on the entire route may start in the 2nd half of this year.


----------



## Chris80678

Any updates on opening dates for Inowroclaw and Nysa bypasses?

I believe Nysa bypass has had it's building inspections completed

There is also S7 from Nidzica to Napierki? (just needs white road lines and exit signs I believe)


----------



## LMB

Kpc21 said:


> So it's even more true that the Polish expressways should be marked as motorways.


Absolutely. The 1-2% sections that are exceptions are just exceptions. One tighter curve per 50km of double carriageway doesn't declassify the entire road (except in Poland :bash


----------



## ufonut

S7 between Krakow and Zakopane by *jasq*


----------



## paf1

Kpc21 said:


> Yes, but it should be blue also on expressways. Actually, most of the expressways should be converted to motorways, because they keep higher standards than many motorways in the western-European countries. And Poland looks so poor on Google Maps for example, which - at some levels of zoom - highlights motorways and doesn't highlight expressways, so that they look exactly like normal national roads...


It would be cheaper to change these idiotic settings on google. The same is true for Turkey and Spain, which have great roads but you cant see it on google maps.


----------



## SRC_100

^^
For what? It doesnt` change anything in practice. What`s more, almost nobody cares about it.


----------



## VITORIA MAN

I do care !!


----------



## SRC_100

^^
and so what? u are just sinlge person. I`m really confused u take care about marking ****** polish roads on GM, being Portuguese


----------



## Chris80678

Wow, June is a busy month for openings :cheers:


----------



## Proterra

Kemo said:


> Radom - Szydłowiec (17.8 km) - rumoured date - next Friday


Where will it connect to DK7? 

Because when we drove up to Warszawa on the third of June, there was a field separating the end of S7 and DK7 by Orońsko. I can see them making a connection in like three weeks, but at the same time, it looks rather stupid to build 10 km of motorway around Orońsko which one can't use for another year...


----------



## Chris80678

Proterra said:


> Where will it connect to DK7?
> 
> Because when we drove up to Warszawa on the third of June, there was a field separating the end of S7 and DK7 by Orońsko. I can see them making a connection in like three weeks, but at the same time, it looks rather stupid to build 10 km of motorway around Orońsko which one can't use for another year...


S7 will connect with DK7 just north of Orońsko

What will be more annoying will be the gap in the end of S7 between Szydłowiec and it's start again at Skarżysko-Kamienna


----------



## Maciek_CK

*S7 Radom - Szydłowiec* is patiently waiting to be opened.



























































































source and more: http://skarzysko24.pl/wiadomosci/aktualnosci/19024-budowa-drogi-krajowej-s7.html


----------



## db84

Kemo said:


> Upcoming road openings.
> 
> …
> 
> DK15/25 expressway, bypass of Inowrocław (16.8 km) will probably be opened in July.
> 
> …


Stimmt. Nur DK15/25 ist keine Expressway. Es ist GP Klasse: "droga szybkiego ruchu" (die Schnellvekehrstrasse). Im Englisch _thoughway_ oder _clearway_.


----------



## Kemo

2x2 motorway-like road, only without a hard shoulder, is what I call an expressway.


----------



## Kpc21

Originally, the meaning of this sign: / Ursprünglich war die Bedeutung dieses Zeichens:










was exactly / genau "droga szybkiego ruchu".

And it's still so in many countries. / Es ist so weiter in vielen Länder.

In Poland, its meaning got shifted into "expressway". / Seine Bedeutung in Polen wurde zu "Expressstraße" geschoben.

But I believe, most of us agree / Aber glaube ich dass meist von uns stimmt zu
that the current Polish "expressways" / dass die derzeitige Polnische "Expressstraßen"
should be marked as motorways / als Autobahnen gezeichnet werden sollen.

Their standard is almost the same as of motorways, / Seiner Standard is fast gleich wie von Autobahnen,
there are some older motorways (like A4) worse than / es gibt einzige alte Autobahnen (wie A4), die schlechter sind als
the expressways built according to the current standards. / die nach die derzeitige Standards gebaute Expressstraßen.

Also in other countries, e.g. in Germany, / Auch in anderen Länder, wie z.B. Deutschland
many motorways are of lower standards / ist viele Autobahnen von niedrigeren Standards
than the Polish expressways. / als die Polnische Expressstraßen.


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## rakcancer

That topic was already discussed and it comes back from time to time especially when someone from outside looks for the first time at polish expressways. And always is the same question why expressways are not a motorways which would practically be as a motorways in any other country. The very short and simplistic answer is: because that would be too easy and would have too much of common sense. Beside, it is about money too. Expressways are toll free for cars, while most parts of motorways either are or will be tolled. Also, in early stages of building motorways in Poland there was a lot of resistance to word "motorway" which was associated with heavy traffic next to residential areas. So that is why we have brake in A2 around Warsaw. Expressway sounds less"heavy" for people so we have S2 in southern Warsaw while there is probably no difference to originally planned A2...


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## Kpc21

With the tolls, it's also more about how it sounds than about the reality. According to the Polish law, motorways do not have to be toll roads, expressways also can be toll roads. The fact that it is just so that no expressways in Poland are toll road doesn't mean it's not possible even in the current legal state.

I hope one time someone will decide to resign the Polish expressways (maybe except some older or single-carriageway ones) to motorways.


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## Kanadzie

^^ and put the tempo 140 sign on them too !


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## Kpc21

If Germans have roads with lower standards with tempo infinity, it shouldn't be a problem. Just a matter of putting lower speed limits in the places where it's actually necessary.


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## RipleyLV

Bump. I'll steal a little attention from the topic above to post some random pictures of work in progress from Budzisko (LT/PL) to Warszawa. 

Pictures are ~2 weeks old. Taken in direction to Warszawa.

*1.* I'll start with the long awaited Suwałki bypass construction, as it is seen before entering the town from DK8.









*2.* This is the current situation on the DK8 in Suwałki. Very intense traffic, the road becomes congested due to of high vehicle over-capacity on traffic lights.









*3.* The new existing connector road from DK8 to S61. I also noticed that _Kudowa-Słone_ is now replaced to _Praha_.









*4.* Suwałki bypass construction as seen from the S61.









*5.* On the S61 from Suwałki to Augustów. Notice the wired crash barriers. 









*6.* I did not photograph the rest of the S61, since I'm sure it has been seen many times on the forum. Besides, Google Street View has also ruined our picture taking business. 









*7.* Now I move on to S8 from Białystok to Warszawa. View towards Białystok.









*8.* Oh look! A cyclists on the expressway. 









*9.* I believe the temperature is the same now.. Our summer also sucks.









*10.* Construction of the S8 from Zambrów to Ostrów Maz. 









*11.* New local junction.









*12.* Old & new.









*13.* Village bypass.









*14.* New overpasses..









*15.* Some parts of the S8 will feature concrete pavement.









*16.* Different day. This is the start of Marki bypass.









*17.* The unique tunnels of Warsaw.









*18.* One of my favorite views when driving on this road. 









*19.* Urban expressway.









*20.* More tunnels..









*21.* After Konotopa junction in Warszawa. On the A2 motorway.









The next set of pictures will feature the A1 from the A2 till the Czech border.


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## rakcancer

^^ Wondering who would bike on such a busy and dangerous for bikers expressway especially that there is almost empty parallel service road!


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## RipleyLV

rakcancer said:


> ^^ Wondering who would bike on such a busy and dangerous for bikers expressway especially that there is almost empty parallel service road!


I wouldn't be surprised if it was a local gentleman. Why would you put a great effort on a hilly road, if there's a flat expressway next to it. 

Also, I did not capture this, there were hitchhikers on the same expressway as well, but the only vehicle that stopped for them, was a police cruiser.


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## rakcancer

but the only vehicle that stopped for them, was a police cruiser.


----------



## RipleyLV

Ok, here is the second branch of pictures. 

Starting where I left off, on the A2.

*1.* Approaching the 3rd 'motorway X motorway' cross in Poland; Łódź-Połnoc (Lodz-North) near Stryków (many drivers are familiar with this name  ). 









*2.* The A1 motorway connects one of the most populated areas located in Southern Poland with Northern Poland, precisely port-city Gdańsk, located next to the Baltic Sea. Here we are taking a turn in South direction (Katowice).









*3.* On the ramp. View towards Poznań direction.









*4.* This is the most recent opened segment on the A1. Along the 3rd largest city of Łódź, it is concrete paved. Also, notice the added exit destination on the sign.









*5.* Numbered exit sign. I'm guessing this is the long-promised standart in action here.









*6.* New signage.









*7.* Junction with the S8 expressway to Wrocław.









*8.*









*9.* Dang! Exactly 500 km to Lithuania.









*10.* The first and oldest segment of the A1 motorway, and the classy blue&white railing from the 80's.








_Dat Škoda!_

The motorway ends after Piotrków Tryb., and the dual-carriageway asigned as the DK1 starts, it heads all the way to Katowice. Another segment of the A1 is under construction around Częstochowa city.

*11.* I skip to Katowice. This is the main connector road from the DK1 to the A1 (since Częstochowa bypass is missing).









*12.* View towards Częstochowa (U/C).









*13.* Joined the A1.









*14.* A lot of industry around the Katowice area. Poland is one of the top coal mining nations.









*15.* Start of a short 2x3 section.









*16.*









*17.* Even though the road looks smooth. At some places it was bumpy as hell, that's why there are such signs installed.









*18.* George Orwell's interpretation continues. 2x2 back.









*19.* Dem curves.









*20.* Approaching the largest junction God has ever seen - Sośnica węzeł (A1xA4xDK44).









*21.*









*22.* View towards the A4 motorway in Wrocław direction.









*23.*









*24.* MOP Rowień Wschód in distance.









*25.* Interesting choice of color for the pillars.









*26.* This bridge doesn't look that huge as it was in reality.









*27.* And the last photo before the border.. is blurry.









Thanks for Your attention!


----------



## Kemo

Kemo said:


> Upcoming road openings.


There is one more section of S7 motorway I forgot about.

Ostróda-South - Rychnowo, about 10 km long.
Planned opening date - end of July (though it could be delayed till August)


----------



## rakcancer

RipleyLV said:


> *20.* Approaching the largest junction God has ever seen - Sośnica węzeł (A1xA4xDK44).


I wouldn't make fun of that. For Poles it is the biggest intersection - the center of motorway universe in Poland 
Seriously, nice to read comments from drivers from outside...


----------



## db84

rakcancer said:


> I wouldn't make fun of that. For Poles it is the biggest intersection - the center of motorway universe in Poland
> Seriously, nice to read comments from drivers from outside...


It ain't no centre. Łódź Północ junction is the centre.


----------



## RipleyLV

rakcancer said:


> I wouldn't make fun of that. For Poles it is the biggest intersection - the center of motorway universe in Poland


I'm aware of that.  My comment wasn't intended to offend someone, as I like Poland. I just added a little humorous approach, just for the fun read.  



> Seriously, nice to read comments from drivers from outside...


Thanks! But this time around I was the passenger.  Yeah, I like to share my personal knowledge to others, especially since this is an international forum. You, Poles, seen/driven these roads a gazillion times (yes, I lurk the Polish subsection  ), but the reason I'm posting these pictures, is that You get to see the perspective of a foreigner, which I personally like, when someone from abroad posts something about Latvia, Jelgava.. But the comments are for other people abroad, as I said, international forum (4 mio views for this thread!) with a diverse audience, that are somewhat introduced to this country/roads.


----------



## geogregor

RipleyLV said:


> *17.* Even though the road looks smooth. At some places it was bumpy as hell, that's why there are such signs installed.


Yes, unfortunately the A1 ride quality is not the best. It is most likely due to difficult geology associated with the mining in the region.




> *25.* Interesting choice of color for the pillars.


Infamous bridge MA532, you could exit here and vist my home town, one of the ugliest cities in Poland :lol:


----------



## MajKeR_

RipleyLV said:


> *17.* Even though the road looks smooth. At some places it was bumpy as hell, that's why there are such signs installed.


As I see, this is the viaduct over DK11 (Strzelców Bytomskich street) in Bytom. This is the place where mining operation was maintaining through years, as the Powstańców Śląskich coal mine had its headquarters just less than one kilometer from there. Of course, the construction has a special protection for unstable ground, but they are seemingly not as efficient to avoid that. But the pavement is rather ok there, other than at Bytom northern bypass (2 km or so to the SW), where those things are usual :nuts::










Both roads are built in the same period. At the bypass there is a 50 km/h speed limit due to bumps.


----------



## Kemo

This is a major problem in this area. Even the nearby McDonald's restaurant had to be closed because mining operation damaged the building's structure. Several other buildings had to be demolished (as it can be seen here on GSV - change between years 2012 and 2013: https://www.google.pl/maps/@50.3535...9L_q9_0Q!2e0!5s20120901T000000!7i13312!8i6656)

________________________

Opening of *S7 motorway Nidzica - Napierki* this Friday is confirmed.
But *S7 Radom - Szydłowiec* will not be opened this week. Maybe the next week.


----------



## seszele

*[PL] Poland | road infrastructure • infrastruktura drogowa*



Kemo said:


> But *S7 Radom - Szydłowiec* will not be opened this week. Maybe the next week.




Indeed, as of now ;-)



Update; Szydlowiec S7, end of section:


----------



## makaveli6

I'm driving from Sigulda to Gdynia next week. Google Maps suggests two routes. The first one via Marijampole, Suwalki, Gyžicko, Bartoszyce and then along the E28 corridor. The second one leads through Šakiai in Lithuania, closely following the Kaliningrad border, in to Poland via Goldap, Wegorzewo and then joining the route number one near Bartoszyce.

So as I usually use Waze for navigation, I looked it up on Waze too. It gives me a totally diffrent route which is a little bit longer, but follows more main roads. DK8 until Augustow, then DK16 until Ostroda and S7/DK7 until Gdynia.

My question is, which of the routes would be the best choice?I'm planning to cover the whole distance in one day. Departing in the morning and arriving in Gdynia in the evening.


----------



## Kemo

makaveli6 said:


> My question is, which of the routes would be the best choice?I'm planning to cover the whole distance in one day. Departing in the morning and arriving in Gdynia in the evening.


Roads in this region are generally narrow, curvy and in bad condition. DK16 is no exception. There is however one corridor that has been modernised recently. It leads through Gołdap - Węgorzewo - Kętrzyn - Bartoszyce - Lidzbark Warmiński - Orneta - Pasłęk. You will find it easily on this map, marked mostly with green.

And keep in mind that summer holidays begin this Friday, and it means traffic jams on S7 construction between Elbląg and Gdańsk. There are however no good ways to bypass this section.


----------



## makaveli6

Kemo said:


> Roads in this region are generally narrow, curvy and in bad condition. DK16 is no exception. There is however one corridor that has been modernised recently. It leads through Gołdap - Węgorzewo - Kętrzyn - Bartoszyce - Lidzbark Warmiński - Orneta - Pasłęk. You will find it easily on this map, marked mostly with green.
> 
> And keep in mind that summer holidays begin this Friday, and it means traffic jams on S7 construction between Elbląg and Gdańsk. There are however no good ways to bypass this section.


Would the route you mentioned be a lot more time consuming then the DK16? I figure that there could be alot of small populated places, that could consume alot of time to drive through. Then again, probably DK16 also has alot of them. I remember going to Gdansk about five years ago. We took a route somewhere between DK16 and the route you mentioned. I wasn't driving, but I remember the roads being really narrow. Quite an intresting drive if you're not in a hurry.


----------



## RipleyLV

geogregor said:


> Yes, unfortunately the A1 ride quality is not the best. It is most likely due to difficult geology associated with the mining in the region.


Interesting explanation. It might be the reason, since the motorway runs through difficult terrain, and between the hills it was built on a large anmount of sand. A little movement in the ground and voila! 



> Infamous bridge MA532, you could exit here and vist my home town, one of the ugliest cities in Poland :lol:


Which one of those towns? :lol:



makaveli6 said:


> I'm driving from Sigulda to Gdynia next week.


Do You need guidance from Sigulda to Grenctāle?  From experience, I would recommend such route: https://goo.gl/maps/KcDefJ3pW9T2 The least pleasant part in this route will be driving from Suwałki to Giżycko, as it is narrow and now might not be in the best shape everywhere. Not so many populated places to drive through, the problematic part could the town of Olzstyn. The rest have more or less roads around centre. Once You drive to Ostróda, after that pick up the S7 all the way to Elbląg. Then, as Kemo pointed out, You can avoid road works driving via Malbork on DK22 (~20 km longer than on DK7) untill You get to the A1 motorway to Gdańsk.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What is up with the S7 tenders for the Mława - Płońsk route? All subsections are *significantly* under budget.


----------



## Kemo

makaveli6 said:


> Would the route you mentioned be a lot more time consuming then the DK16?


I do not know. What I know is that you do not risk getting stuck in a traffic jam. Which could happen in Olsztyn and at the construction site of S7 in Ostróda.



RipleyLV said:


> Then, as Kemo pointed out, You can avoid road works driving via Malbork on DK22 (~20 km longer than on DK7) untill You get to the A1 motorway to Gdańsk.


Right. The new bridge in Malbork should be fully opened by the end of this week.
But then there is an unpleasant cobbled section near Tczew. And I don't recommend A1, better use DK91 to avoid another traffic jam at the toll gates...




ChrisZwolle said:


> What is up with the S7 tenders for the Mława - Płońsk route? All subsections are *significantly* under budget.


There is a conspiracy theory that the budget was artificially increased (here and on DK15 around Nowe Miasto Lubawskie) because the vice-minister of infrastructure is from Olsztyn :gossip:


----------



## rakcancer

Kemo said:


> There is a conspiracy theory that the budget was artificially increased (here and on DK15 around Nowe Miasto Lubawskie) because the vice-minister of infrastructure is from Olsztyn :gossip:


I am surprised they didn't remove your post yet. Mine from few days ago was removed. It was politically incorrect I guess.
But referring to your comment: how would increasing budget help anyone anyway?


----------



## RipleyLV

Kemo said:


> Right. The new bridge in Malbork should be fully opened by the end of this week.
> But then there is an unpleasant cobbled section near Tczew.


Yeah, but I don't recall this cobbled section that bad, at least it was not that bad as there are cobbled streets here in Rīga. :nuts:



> And I don't recommend A1, better use DK91 to avoid another traffic jam at the toll gates...


In time, I think it's even, either you use a rural road or wait in line for toll.


----------



## geogregor

RipleyLV said:


> Interesting explanation. It might be the reason, since the motorway runs through difficult terrain, and between the hills it was built on a large anmount of sand. A little movement in the ground and voila!


If I remember correctly the A1 motorway north of Bytom runs through some areas of medieval mining activity, most of it no mapped. There might be still some voids not discovered during the ground investigations. 
There also might be some issues with the materials? I don't know. But I use this motorway a few times a year, on my way to the airport, and it is far from smooth ride. Not what one would expect from a few years old motorway.



> Which one of those towns? :lol:


"Glorious" Jastrzebie Zdroj


----------



## makaveli6

RipleyLV said:


> Do You need guidance from Sigulda to Grenctāle?


Actually, I was thinking of taking P8 and P88 until Bauska, but then I realized that half of P88 isn't paved lol.



Kemo said:


> I do not know. What I know is that you do not risk getting stuck in a traffic jam. Which could happen in Olsztyn and at the construction site of S7 in Ostróda.
> 
> 
> 
> Right. The new bridge in Malbork should be fully opened by the end of this week.
> But then there is an unpleasant cobbled section near Tczew. And I don't recommend A1, better use DK91 to avoid another traffic jam at the toll gates...


Hmm, is Waze popular in Poland? If so, I could just check the traffic ahead on Waze and calculate my route depending on the situation.


----------



## Kemo

Construction permit was issued for another section of S5 motorway (Poznań- Gdańsk)

S5: Nowe Marzy (A1) - east of Świecie-North 9.6km (July 2017 to August 2019) – project – map

S5: west of Świecie-North - east of Świecie-West 5.3km (July 2017 to August 2019) [2nd c/w] – project – map

S5: east of Świecie-West - north of Świecie-South 3.3km (July 2017 to August 2019) [2nd c/w] – project – map


----------



## sponge_bob

geogregor said:


> Yes, unfortunately the A1 ride quality is not the best. It is most likely due to difficult geology associated with the mining in the region.


Do you mean that the A1 is subsiding into collapsing abandoned underground coal mines???


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's not uncommon in mining areas. Subsiding ground is affecting infrastructure in (former) mining areas, for example in Germany, southern Netherlands, Belgium, northeastern France, etc.


----------



## sponge_bob

In Britain they *'plan for' *mining subsidence on motorways. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/1608898.stm


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## ChrisZwolle

In Southern Netherlands they had to demolish a part of a shopping center in Heerlen in 2011 due to mining subsidence underneath it. The mine was already decommissioned in 1974.


----------



## Chris80678

sponge_bob said:


> Do you mean that the A1 is subsiding into collapsing abandoned underground coal mines???


Well let's hope we don't lose such a key stretch of motorway


----------



## Deadeye Reloaded

RipleyLV said:


> I'm aware of that.  My comment wasn't intended to offend someone, as I like Poland. I just added a little humorous approach, just for the fun read.


^^
And a big DANKE/DZIEKUJE for that! kay: 
It is very refreshing to watch so many good pictures from a road trip and read funny but yet informative picture comments and hidden easter eggs ("Dat Skoda!" :lol!

(And you have exactly my type of humour! )


----------



## michael_siberia

Kemo said:


> This is a major problem in this area. Even the nearby McDonald's restaurant had to be closed because mining operation damaged the building's structure. Several other buildings had to be demolished (as it can be seen here on GSV - change between years 2012 and 2013: https://www.google.pl/maps/@50.3535...9L_q9_0Q!2e0!5s20120901T000000!7i13312!8i6656)
> 
> ________________________


Mine waste bumps are not a problem on the certain section of A1. Problem is the same as on the DTS highway in Zabrze (bad foundation). How to describe that section of A1 using the shortest way? An asphalt highway built directly above the concrete one. Yes, one of the foundation layers is concrete (mine waste bumps protection).

New photos from A1 near Katowice Airport by alfsky:



alfsky said:


> Kilka zdjęć z wtorku.
> Budowa A1 w rejonie lotniska.
> Zdjęcia zrobione jak najbardziej legalnie przy okazji sesji dla lotniska.
> 
> Prace dokładnie w osi pasa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Widok w kierunku północnym
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prace w kierunku północnym
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prace w kierunku północnym
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Połączenie z istniejącym odcinkiem autostrady A1 i S1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Więcej zdjęć zapewne pojawi się w wątku dotyczącym infrastruktury lotniczej.


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## Kpc21

It seems that in course of the "costs optimization" planned for the construction of the S14 expressway, it is going to be built with 2,5 interchange only instead of 6 ones.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It seems there is a lack of parking capacity at Pyrzowice Airport. All those makeshift parking lots. According to Google Earth historical imagery they were added over the past couple of years. Are they private initiatives or does it belong to the operator of the airport?


----------



## salto_angel

^^ the big one that is adjacent to the terminal is owned by the airport; the rest are just private parking lots.


----------



## Kpc21

The private parking lots are not due to lack of parking capacity, but just due to the entrepreneurship of the locals. They offer cheaper and guarded parking places than the unguarded ones on the official parking lot, and provide transfer from the parking lot to the airport by their car.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ that's pretty common even in large city airports like YYZ in Toronto... there are thousands of private spaces... when the cost might be 70% cheaper for some weeks than the cheapest option run by the airport, it makes sense...


----------



## Kpc21

I was recently checking the Wrocław airport and they had actually lower prices than the private parking lots. It seems the official parking lot has joined the competition there.

I was once - some years ago - flying from the Łódź airport. And the car was left on the official parking lot, mostly because there was no private ones in the neighborhood yet, and it was quite cheap anyway. Now there is less flights (this moment - only lowcosts to the British Islands, from what I know; before they had also charter flights in the holidays) and a few private parking lots. No idea why.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ last time I flew out of Toronto airport, the airport put posters inside the terminal advertising that they had reduced parking rates, etc and that it's a great idea to park in the official lot...

me I was looking at the poster and said... but I'm already here!

for on-topic, it looks like only a very minor road to nowhere going over the A1 at the Katowice lotnisko... will / is there a more important access road from the airport to this important autostrada? (I am thinking of similar roads in most cities, e.g. S79 to Okecie)


----------



## Chris80678

S1


----------



## Kemo

Kanadzie said:


> for on-topic, it looks like only a very minor road to nowhere going over the A1 at the Katowice lotnisko... will / is there a more important access road from the airport to this important autostrada? (I am thinking of similar roads in most cities, e.g. S79 to Okecie)


DW913 is the main access road (and it's not the one in the photo).
https://www.google.pl/maps/@50.4630439,19.0805194,910m/data=!3m1!1e3
It has recently been upgraded to 2x2, but it makes no sense and was a waste of money, because the junction with S1 remains a bottleneck. Well, it doesn't really need to be upgraded, I've never heard of traffic jams there...


----------



## Chris80678

S7 Krakow eastern bypass opens in couple of days :cheers:

I do like bridge over Vistula river


----------



## Kpc21

Kpc21 said:


> It seems that in course of the "costs optimization" planned for the construction of the S14 expressway, it is going to be built with 2,5 interchange only instead of 6 ones.


Actually, they want to cancel two interchanges (officially it's 1,5 interchange) and the north of Łódź will have no connection to the expressway.

Which would mean, north of Łódź will still have to access the A2 via Zgierz. 12 km of such a road, through a jammed center of a town:




























The S14 - the western bypass of Łódź:










The Emilia and Lućmierz interchanges:










Emilia is going to be built (actually - extended by a connection to the S14), but in a limited range. Nobody knows how much limited. Definitely without this connector to the DK91 on the north of it.

Lućmierz is going to be cancelled. Which is acceptable, there is really no much need of it.

The Aleksandrów and Teofilów interchanges:










Aleksandrów - only the connection to the DK71 is going to be built. Without the connection to the new planned road to Łódź. Even though it is really needed for Łódź as a fast connection to the motorway network.

Teofilów is going to be cancelled. It is also a very important interchange for the northern part of Łódź, close to a huge residential area. And it would also be the main interchange for the town of Aleksandrów.











The Konstantynów and Retkinia interchanges:










The Konstantynów interchange is going to be built. Even though there is practically no residential areas next to it. The town of Konstantynów would mainly use the Retkinia interchange anyway, and the part which would use the Konstantynów interchange (in order to head north on the S14) could use the Teofilów interchange equally well.

The Retkinia interchange is going to be built and it's needed. This is the only thing which is OK.

A full map: http://www.s14-slowik-lublinek.pl/files/oz/orient.jpg


----------



## Kanadzie

^^
probably after road opens, traffic will be such the north Lodz people will complain to the Sejm member and they will pave ramps as per initial plan :lol:


----------



## Kpc21

Why? How could the situation be worse than now?

Now the people have to drive to the A2 through Zgierz.

After the S14 opens - without the needed interchanges - a part (most) of Łódź will still have to drive to the A2 through Zgierz.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ but they'll see how much easier it could be and complain to everyone and probably the mayor will complain and since the cost of paving ramps is relatively small compared to building overpass, GDDKiA will go and do it, at least, so I expect the democratic process to function still as elsewhere 

Unless of course the relief of other traffic makes the route through Zgeirz very quick and inexpensive enough that nobody cares at all...


----------



## Kpc21

The mayor should have already complained about it, but she doesn't seem to care. Even if she complains, will the government take care of it? They are from a different political party (PiS), so its likely they will just laugh.

The only one who complained from her political party (PO) is the former minister of infrastructure Cezary Grabarczyk, who is from Łódź.

Some of the city council members, representing NIMBY's living next to the planned connecting road from Łódź to the Aleksandrów junction, may even be happy because of the construction of this connecting road getting less likely.

And if GDDKiA doesn't built the junction, there is no point of building this connecting road by the city. The city cannot build this junction on its own because it would be located out of the city area. And a city is not allowed to invest any money outside of its borders.

But anyway the city should fight. Haven't the government said just a week ago that they found 134 mln PLN extra for the roads? And now, a week later, they say they will save money by not building the most important junctions on a new road.

Even if they don't manage to persuade the government to build all the initially planned interchanges, in my opinion, the minimum is building the Teofilów junction instead of the Konstantynów interchange and building the Aleksandrów junction so, that it will be possible to connect to it the planned road connecting it with the city for a low cost, without demolishing what has just been built.

What do you mean as paving ramps?


----------



## Eulanthe

Two key bits of news from Poland:

1st piece of news: fuel taxes are going up by 25gr/litre (or around 0.06EUR). The government clearly has no money for new road construction, and this money is supposed to go to finance new roads. It's due to raise around 5 billion PLN a year, or 1.2 billion Euro.

2nd piece of news: new tolls in Poland appear to be out of the question. 

http://thenews.pl/1/12/Artykul/313793,Minister-hopes-Poland’s-A1-highway-will-be-completed-by-2021

This is something new from the government, and appears to be a signal that they've decided that a new widespread system of tolls is politically impossible to implement.


----------



## 8166UY

Seems to be rather fair to be honest, considering the amount of construction in the country. Besides, it's still far from the most expensive rate in Europe.
But I can imagine that a lot of people aren't too enthusiastic about it, as for every well visible tax rise.


----------



## Kpc21

One of the problems with deciding about the toll collection system is that we have a few motorway sections in Poland, which were build and are managed by private companies based on contracts with the government. The A4 Kraków-Katowice is probably the most remarkable one. Others are a section of the A2 from the German border to Konin and the A1 from Gdańsk to Toruń. The reason why it was done so is that simply there was no other means of financing the motorways construction before we joined the EU.

Until those contracts expire (maybe even longer, nobody knows, because the contracts are secret), the government cannot influence the toll collection systems there. So if a vignette-like system was going to be introduced, someone who buys a vignette still would have to pay for some of the motorways at the gates.

Personally, I wouldn't care about it, but it seems that some people do not really like such a solution.

Another thing is definitely that the citizens just like this status quo when practically all the newly built motorways are free of charge (because of lack of agreement about the toll collection system). If the government decides to introduce the tolls on the motorway sections where they are missing, it won't be a popular decision. So they are afraid of doing it. It's much easier to increase the taxes most people don't realize about at all.

The fuel in Poland is one of the cheapest in the EU. But the wages are also not very high. Is it good if the fuel prices go high? For the economy of the country - rather not. If the fuel prices go up, the costs of the transport of goods go up, so practically the costs of everything go up. Another thing is that there is too much "car culture" in the country, people tend to use too much cars and too little public transport (unlike in Germany or Czech Republic). But I don't think an increase of fuel prices will change it.


----------



## Maciek_CK

*DK74 Kielce*










1. Kielce West interchange. The city's western bypass (S7), opened in 1984 with only one carriageway, was rebuilt between 2010 and 2013. Works included adding a second carriageway, rest areas and reconstruction of interchanges.









2. The interchange was constructed in anticipation of the S74 future alignment - its beginning is visible on the left side of the picture.









3. The interchange also serves as a convienent access to Kielce Trade Fairs (Targi Kielce) - ranked second in Central and Eastern Europe with regards to the number of exhibitors and to exhibition space leased.









4. 2 kilometers of shame. The city won't upgrade it, because it's supposed to be an expressway some time in this century, but apart from countless assurances and promises (from both local and central government), the documentation is still in very early stages (they haven't still applied for environmental decision).









5. DK74 runs to the left and it's dual carriageway all the way up.









6. The Kielce Technology Park (Kielecki Park Technologiczny), accesible from DK74 here, consists of a Cluster of Technological Incubators and a Technology Centre.









pictures' source: http://plus.echodnia.eu/swietokrzys...otu-ptaka-podniebne-kielce-odcinek-1,12339900


----------



## Sponsor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Very nice. It makes a 'dull' concrete structure much more visible and aesthetic at night.
> 
> A lot of money is spent on public space aesthetics like railroad stations or parks. But road infrastructure, with thousands or even over one hundred thousand of users per day is often given little thought. It's nice to see Poland breaking that spell.


Poland in general is unfortunate with aesthethics, as there is too much color in public space. 

In case of infrastructure it all depends on how do they use colors on it. They either make overpases light grey and put some color as an accent which is *a good solution* or color the concrete all the way from down to top. And that is *just awful*.

Thankfully they put more attention to aesthetics nowadays. Colors are not necessary unless used reasonably. But white and light grey shadows are usually safe to use anywhere.


----------



## LM69

I found 2 interesting videos, showing A18 before the existence of interchange "Krzyzowa":

Old interchange "Krzyzowa", which was cancelled after connection to A4:





Interchange "Krzywa"/ "Wyjazd 87" (A18) (old A4/A18 connection):


----------



## bewu1

Today, 3 project & build contracts for S7 expressway between Warszawa and Grójec (total length of appr. 29 km) have been signed. This section is new expressway standard exit from Warszawa towards Kraków.


----------



## masages21

it's quite funny that A18/DK18 is marked as a motorway on the majority of maps. Nowadays, it is not even compliant with an expressway standard.


----------



## Kpc21

In one direction - Poland -> Germany - it is (from 2006), in the other (Germany -> Poland) it isn't. But officially it's not marked as a motorway in any of the directions, and therefore the maximum allowed speed even towards Germany is only 100 km/h.


----------



## Grzegorz.Janoszka

Kpc21 said:


> In one direction - Poland -> Germany - it is (from 2006), in the other (Germany -> Poland) it isn't. But officially it's not marked as a motorway in any of the directions, and therefore the maximum allowed speed even towards Germany is only 100 km/h.


However it is hard to find a car going below 120 km/h and 130-150 is a standard over there (of course only to the west).


----------



## cybergreg

*S79 Warsaw*

Dear all, I am staying in Warsaw on a business trip and I was quite surprised by the S79 near the airport as it ends abruptly in the north. I can't imagine how it would continue northbound, as there is an office building right after the end of the carriageway. 
What was the concept, where will it go?


----------



## Maciek_CK

^^ There are vague plans to extend that road so that it can carry traffic through the city, eventually beyond by connecting with a planned S7 access route in / out of the city. It won’t be an expressway although it will have an expressway-like standard (identical to the existing S8-DK7 connector near Janki). It is unknown when it’ll be built. You can check it out here: http://siskom.waw.pl/trasa-ns.htm .


----------



## vytgri

Hi, 

Has Igorsel map been moved again? 
On this link it's two weeks old:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/hklowukui4pepx6/mapka-igorsel.png


----------



## Kemo

His computer has been damaged. Polish forumers are actually collecting money for a new one: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=2023272


----------



## bleetz

Kemo said:


> http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/nowa-mapa_en.png


Wow the number of red sections is absolutely unreal. Surely that's the most roads being constructed in a single European country simultaneously ever? Do you know the number of U/C roads?


----------



## SRC_100

^^
Don`t take it seriously, it`s just propaganda... :troll:


----------



## bleetz

What do you mean? Is the map incorrect?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Spain built 450 kilometers of new motorway per year between 1994 and 2014. From ~6,000 - 15,000 km.


----------



## bleetz

ChrisZwolle said:


> Spain built 450 kilometers of new motorway per year between 1994 and 2014. From ~6,000 - 15,000 km.


450 km a year is an insane figure. Kudos to them. The above map for Poland is still absolute porn, could stare at it for days kay:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

In Spain's case that is a *20 year* average. Poland may also reach near that figure in some years, but not every single year between, say, 2010 and 2030.


----------



## SRC_100

bleetz said:


> What do you mean? Is the map incorrect?


Just joke.
To be honest, unfortunately current goverment slowed down many sections without real reason or beacuse of they need money for social purpose. I mean that most of the light brown (dark orange?) section should be marked as red (u/c) for one year at least as well (eg. S19 Lublin-Rzeszów, S61, S6 Koszalin-Słupsk-Gdańsk or S3).



bleetz said:


> 4The above map for Poland is still absolute porn


As I wrote above, there was a chance to get even better... terribly pity and shame...:gaah:


----------



## bleetz

Yeah it sucks if the government does that. Roads are the best investment to "social purposes" that one can find, let's hope that that sort of behaviour doesn't become a trend.

In any case, we should put the situation into perspective - most countries in the world (maybe even all) would love to see their road networks expanded at Poland's pace. Let's hope the development stays at a similar pace for the next decade or so and until completion kay:


----------



## Kemo

bleetz said:


> Wow the number of red sections is absolutely unreal. Surely that's the most roads being constructed in a single European country simultaneously ever? Do you know the number of U/C roads?


Currently there are 1185.7 km of motorways in realization phase (this number includes both "red" and "violet" sections on the map)

Some historical data:

Motorways in construction









Motorways completed









(Red color is the sum of dual carriageway motorways, black color includes also half-profile motorways.)


----------



## SRC_100

^^
There would be useful to add some graphical presentation how many km of motorways kind of roads were completed each year since eg. 2004 or so... I can`t find it :?


----------



## Kemo

This one from wikipedia?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...oria_budowy_autostrad_i_dróg_ekspresowych.gif


----------



## SRC_100

^^
Not real, I remember some kind of table or diagram...?


----------



## Kemo

http://www.martins99.za.pl/npd.swf


----------



## Grzegorz.Janoszka

Kemo said:


> http://www.martins99.za.pl/npd.swf


Anybody still using it? Shockwave is a dead add-on. The major browsers either don't support it, or will not support it in very close future.
I removed flash from all my computers already a year ago or so.

It would be good if, whoever is behind this map, could present it in some modern technology.


----------



## Kemo

Construction permits were issued for two sections of S5 motorway near Bydgoszcz. One more to go.

S5: Bydgoszcz-North - Maksymilianowo – 6.2km (August 2017 to May 2019) – project – map
S5: west of Bydgoszcz-Błonie - Szubin-North – 9.7km (August 2017 to October 2018) – project – map

PS
DW935: Rybnik-Zamyslow – Zory 10.2km (April 2017 to November 2019)
actual project page: http://drogaregionalnaraciborz-pszczyna.pl/


----------



## Kpc21

Grzegorz.Janoszka said:


> Anybody still using it? Shockwave is a dead add-on. The major browsers either don't support it, or will not support it in very close future.
> I removed flash from all my computers already a year ago or so.
> 
> It would be good if, whoever is behind this map, could present it in some modern technology.


I would suggest writing about it in the Polish section, in the proper thread.

But take into account that it's made by a hobbyist, and it had to involve much work.

Rewriting it e.g. in HTML5 and JavaScript will also involve much work. The technology is so different that it would have to be done practically from scratch.

I am also not a fan of Adobe Flash (this software and this format doesn't belong to Shockwave already for a very long time, it's long since they got bought out by Adobe), but many websites still use it, so it's still difficult not to have it installed. I am not sure, but I think even some YouTube videos still load in Flash instead of the HTML5 mode (it was definitely so 1 or 2 years ago).

It was especially problematic for the Linux users - the support for Adobe Flash on this platform was always much worse than on Windows, it was always working much slower. But even on Linux, Flash works now much better than in the past, not to mention Windows where I never had any problems.

Although... something like 2 years ago, I opened an account in one of the Polish banks (namely, in mBank). At one moment I had some problems. I tried using their online support platform instead of calling them (I must pay for the call, while the online platform is free). But it turned out, this platform was in... the Silverlight technology. An obsolete Microsoft technology (with which MS once wanted to compete with Flash), no longer developed already for a few years. And it never had proper support for Linux (there were some ersatzs like Moonlight, but they never worked well). So I had to call them. At the end, the consultant informed me about the online platform, asked if I tried using it. Then I had to tell them that I would like very much to try it, but it uses an obsolete technology and I am simply unable to use it...


----------



## Kemo

Warsaw Metro tunnel in Ursynów uncovered. S2 motorway will go under it.



d0cent said:


>


----------



## Kemo

S8 motorway Marki - Radzymin (part of Via Baltica in Warsaw agglomeration). Deadline is in October, but will they manage to finish it in time? We'll see.

Photos by *zbyhoo78*

1. Junction Marki (DW629). The ramp to the left will have to be demolished.









2.









3. Space reservation for interchange Drewnica, connecting S8 with S17 - eastern part of Warsaw ringroad









4. 2x5 lanes wide on this short section









5. Junction Zielonka (DW631)









6. Looking back - downtown Warsaw is seen in the distance









7. There is a lot of forests around Warsaw









8.









9. Junction Kobyłka









10. Contract boundary. Both sections are built by Italian companies. The one closer to Warsaw is built by Salini and they are behind schedule. They build other sections of motorways around Poland, and there are huge delays as well (most notably on S7 near Kielce). The other section is built by Astaldi and they are doing good.


----------



## Kemo

11.









12. Junction Wołomin. New alignment of DW635 is supposed to pass through here, but it doesn't even have the environmental decision yet. This junction will probably remain unused for some time.









13.









14.









15.









16.









17. Junction Radzymin South (DW635)









18. Existing S8 Radzymin bypass. Opened in 1998. Almost 20 years later, a part of it will be downgraded.









19.









20. S8 towards Białystok. The section Radzymin - Wyszków (not visible in this photo) was opened in 2009.









21. One final look towards Warsaw (with the city's skyline well visible, the distance is about 24 km)


----------



## RipleyLV

^^ Can't wait for this to get opened. Approx. 2 weeks ago, while traveling to Slovakia, we lost 1,5 hour in Marki.


----------



## Kemo

Jarocin bypass opened


----------



## Kemo

DK33 Kłodzko bypass (on the shortest route Wrocław - Brno - Wien)

Junction with DK8









View towards south


















One of two long overpasses (this one over railway 309 Kłodzko - Kudowa and Bystrzyca Dusznicka river)









View towards north, Bardzkie mountains in the background, Kłodzko to the right









Second overpass (this one over railway 276 Wrocław - Międzylesie and Nysa Kłodzka river)









View towards north









View towards south. The highest peak to the left - it is Śnieźnik at PL/CZ border (1426 m a.s.l.), though I'm not 100% sure.









Connector to DK46 at eastern side of the town


----------



## Kemo

S19 Jasionka - Sokołów Małopolski North

The section that opened today begins at 1:03



jarfi said:


>


----------



## masages21

why was in built in 2+1 profile, isn't it a part of the future Via Carpatia route?


----------



## Kemo

Because this section was designed many years ago, when there was not much money for road construction and before a decision was made to build the whole S19 between Rzeszów and Lublin.
It is constantly criticised, because it is an evident waste of money. It would make more sense to prepare a new design documentation for 2x2 and start the construction a few years later...


----------



## Kemo

Today two contracts have been signed for reconstruction of two remaining sections of old concrete Reichsautobahn Berlin - Königsberg near Szczecin. Today this road is numbered A6 and S3. The road will be widened (it will get a hard shoulder) and the 80 years old pavement will be replaced.

1st section - about 1.5 km: https://www.google.pl/maps/dir/53.3...43,14.7005021,1548m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!4m1!3e0

Kijewo interchange will be completely reconstructed. It will remain a cloverleaf, but it will be larger.









2nd section - about 3.5 km: https://www.google.pl/maps/dir/53.4...53.4136822,14.7335913,14.5z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0

It is now signed as "expressway" S3, after the reconstruction will be signed as "motorway" A6, despite having technical parameters of Polish "expressway" and not "motorway". But it is the same with the rest of A6 - lanes are 3.5m wide, which qualifies the road as an "expressway", yet it is signed as a "motorway". Actually the technical parameters of this "motorway" are lower than the nearby S3 "expressway" to Gorzów Wielkopolski... another proof that the whole "motorway/expressway" thing makes no sense and should be changed.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ curious how the trees are already removed on the south side... must have been planned for a long time.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The trees were cut in 2011 according to Google Earth historic imagery.


----------



## Dantiscum

What about this interchange?
https://www.google.pl/maps/@53.3332...4!1sc0IUTj9zKBB-L9kMERrTwg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Will it be rebuilt to motorway standards?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kpc21 said:


> In Poland, just before a moment, most highways were 1x2 ordinary (although wide) roads, often through villages and centers of towns. Many still are. If this worked, than making a section of a proper motorway/expressway 1x2 for, say, a month will not be a disaster.


You have to think long-term. It won't need any renovation in the next 10 or 15 years, but by the late 2030s traffic volumes will have increased to a point that single lane traffic will cause significant traffic congestion. Traffic counts from 2005-2010-2015 in Poland already showed significant traffic growth on the motorways. 

What if - for example - A2 carries 50,000 - 60,000 vehicles per day. You can't narrow that to single lane traffic without causing significant delays and associated collisions. Just look at the experience in Germany with all their _Baustellen_, with many having severe traffic congestion even if there are two narrow lanes.


----------



## Kemo

Traffic won't grow indefinitely. And since Poland is depopulating, it may even start decreasing.


----------



## MichiH

Kemo said:


> And since Poland is depopulating, it may even start decreasing.


I don't know about Poland but the mileage per inhabitant is still increasing in Germany. That means, even if the population is decreasing, traffic is increasing...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The same is recorded in the Netherlands. Areas with a population decline or stagnation saw traffic growth, which was most pronounced on the motorways. This is also observed in Denmark, motorway traffic grows much faster than rural and urban traffic.


----------



## LMB

Traffic _will_ increase in Poland. Up to a few years ago it was surprising in Poland to commute by car even 40km to work, whereas in the West that's very little for some people. 

Let's not forget that better roads generate more traffic.


----------



## Kemo

Kpc21 said:


> By the way, when you have 2x2 concrete road, how can you extend it to 2x3? We have such a situation on the eastern Łódź bypass. It's concrete and it needs such an extension.


You just add another lane, there's no need to tear down the existing lanes. 

A4 in concrete, widened at the interchange with S3:



czaro13 said:


>


----------



## UPR20

BTW Poland starting with 2017 is no longer depopulating. Not only we have net immigration but natural pop. growth as well. 

Traffic is also growing by up to 5% p.a.


----------



## Kemo

Construction permit was issued for section S2 "C" of Warsaw ringroad.

S2: Warsaw-Wal Miedzeszynski - Warsaw-Lubelska (S17) 7.5km (October 2017 to August 2020) – project – map


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Does that mean that the entire S2 is now under construction?


----------



## rakcancer

Unfortunately detailed road construction map of Poland from first page is no more available.


----------



## Kemo

Nope, section A (the one with tunnel) and part of section B still don't have construction permits. Nor does the Lubelska interchange (S2/A2/S17).


----------



## kdpy

rakcancer said:


> Unfortunately detailed road construction map of Poland from first page is no more available.


Detailed map created by one of polish forum users is avaible there https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/hklowukui4pepx6/mapka-igorsel.png
It's Facebook site of this project where are news about updates and links
https://www.facebook.com/mapabudowydrogekspresowychiautostrad/
It would be nice if all european countries had also high quality map of highways.


----------



## rakcancer

Construction of S6 around Kolobrzeg and Koszalin is now visible on Google satellite images:





More here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@54.1006469,15.5779518,6989m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e4?hl=en


----------



## Nowax

S7 Lubien - Rabka section



Lokash said:


> Więcej na :
> http://www.s7-lubien-rabka.pl/foto/c-foto-lotnicze.html


----------



## Nowax

Lokash said:


>


 ...


----------



## Kemo

DK20, bypass of Kościerzyna is opening today.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/54.1194/17.9787

Construction took 24 months
7.6 km, 2+1 lanes, four junctions.










The bypass was originally planned as 2x2 motorway-like road, but it was "optimised" to 2+1. It is said to have space reservation for the 2nd carriageway, but it seems very unlikely that it will ever be built.


----------



## db84

Kemo said:


> DK20, bypass of Kościerzyna is opening today.
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/54.1194/17.9787


One curiosity about this bypass is that the junction Kościerzyna West is split between two streets: Leśna and Kościuszki.

I cannot recall similar solution anywhere else.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Google Earth altitude data suggests there is a 10 - 15 meter height difference east of road 2403G, where an off ramp would have been located. That may have been a reason to build the ramp further west.


----------



## Kemo

db84 said:


> I cannot recall similar solution anywhere else.


Here:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/53.1171/22.6214


_____
Driving videos from Kościerzyna bypass:




Merco_93 said:


> Przejazd od strony Bytowa:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Przejazd od strony Gdyni:


----------



## ufonut

RipleyLV said:


> ^^ Can't wait for this to get opened. Approx. 2 weeks ago, while traveling to Slovakia, we lost 1,5 hour in Marki.


Ask ye shall receive.

Astaldi section by *Crusier*


----------



## Kemo

^^
The toll system is unfair. Either all "A" and "S" should be tolled for passenger vehicles, or none of them.

With currently planned toll system, someone from Łódź will have to pay for driving in 4 directions, but someone from Wrocław or Poznań will only have to pay for driving in two directions... despite the comfort of travel being virtually the same for all cases (or even lower on "A" roads due to higher traffic volumes).


----------



## Madrawski97

Eulanthe said:


> For me, the most logical thing to do would be to make motorways tolled and expressways toll-free for cars. It would be absolutely clear then, and technical standards wouldn't have anything to do with it - except perhaps requiring a minimum standard of road (current S-standard) before tolls can be introduced.
> 
> I'd also suggest that expressways should also have blue signs rather than green ones.


In my opinion all S-roads should become A-roads since the standards are almost identical (well, except for S22, S19 etc.). And nobody says that all new A-roads should have a 140km/h speed limit just because they became highways. It means that roads designed for 120km/h, like the S3, could hold there speed limits. This "system" is also used in other countries. For example, the highest speed limit in the Netherlands is 130km/h but it doesn't mean that it applies on every highway (120 and 100km/h are used quite often).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

In Germany the speed limit (if there is one) alternates between 120 and 130 km/h, depending on the state you're in. Most people don't even notice that difference. I don't see a real problem in Poland using 120 km/h for one motorway and 140 km/h for the other, as long as it is clearly signposted.


----------



## Negjana

Having 120 km/h as limit for S-roads and 140 km/h for A-roads makes signposting the limits obsolete.


----------



## Madrawski97

Not if the most S-roads become A-roads 
The S-prefix should be reserved for roads like the S22 (1+1) or 2+1 roads with grade separations


----------



## Kemo

A contract was signed for the missing section of S7 motorway in Skarżysko-Kamienna.

S7: Skarżysko-Kamienna-North – Skarżysko-Kamienna-South 7.6km (October 2017 to May 2020) – project – map

Some ecoterrorists were blocking this project (claiming that building the Skarżysko-North junction will do harm to butterflies - no kidding), but apparently all these environmental-bureaucratic issues have ben resolved.


----------



## Maciek_CK

^^There’s only one word for it: finally! Years of delays, arguing and scuffling are over at last. This means that:

the whole expressway in Świętokrzyskie Voivodeship will be completed in May 2020 (97 kilometers);
including the adjacent sections in Masovian Voivodeship, the expressway will reach Grójec (200 kilometers);
come spring 2021, along with completion of a new expressway from Grójec to the capital, one will be able to travel from Kielce to Warsaw Chopin Airport in 1.5 hours.

I think it's appropriate to remember one of the makers of all this trouble - succisa pratensis, a flowering plant that needed to be removed because it hosted larvae of euphydryas aurinia, a butterfly of the Nymphalidae family:


----------



## Kisciu

GDDKiA report for 2017. Nice shots of new expressways:


----------



## ufonut

Krakow Airport + (A4) highway by *Jasq*


----------



## db84

^^ It can not be. The queue to the payment gates is 10 times too short :troll:


----------



## Nowax

S7 Lubien - Rabka section



Nowohucianka said:


> https://in-krakow.pl/news-details/tak-wygladaja-tunele-pod-zakopianka-teraz-wierca-z-obu-stron/59db9f036efed00700bdcd05


----------



## MajKeR_

ufonut said:


> Krakow Airport + (A4) highway by *Jasq*


I guess it's done very early, as the traffic volume at the toll plaza is so low 



Madrawski97 said:


> In my opinion all S-roads should become A-roads since the standards are almost identical (well, except for S22, S19 etc.).


And S8 Piotrków Tryb.-Warsaw.

As for me, it's proper motorway of kind that might be seen at many old motorways in Western Europe. But due to many speed limits of 100 kph and bus stops (!) that are built ridiculously (e.g. many petrol stations there are able to reach only from service ways, while bus stops are placed directly on the road) it need next works to reach A-standards... It's a pity, as those speed limits are rather unuseful (there's no single stretch that forces such a limit) and bus stops would be done outside.


----------



## Kemo

Upcoming openings:

*October*
*S3 *Sulechów - Zielona Góra North (2nd carriageway): ~14 km (with the exception of bridge on Oder which will be completed 2 years later)
*S5 *Korzeńsko - Żmigródek: ~6 km

*November*
*S7 *Rychnowo - Olsztynek West: ~11 km
*S19 *Świlcza - Rzeszów South: ~6 km

*Uncertain, but possibly November*:
*S8 *Marki - Radzymin South: ~16 km
*S5 *Żmigródek - Krościna: ~14 km
*S8 *Prosienica - Zambrów West: ~15 km
*S5 *Kryniczno - Wrocław North: ~7 km


----------



## Madrawski97

Are there any plans to rebuild the border crossing in Świecko and remove those exchange offices etc?


----------



## Kemo

Yes:
https://www.docdroid.net/p8kmtUu/i1.pdf
https://www.docdroid.net/2lRBfG7/i4.pdf


----------



## ufonut

First 2*3 experimental signage in Poland on S8 expressway bypassing Marki (stretch by Astaldi) by *Bezimienny17*. Bypass of Marki (S8) was supposed to have old signage but at the last minute GDDKiA changed it to experimental. Unfortunately the rest of new S8 being built between Warszawa and Bialystok is stuck with horrible old signage.


----------



## Madrawski97

Well, it is way better than the old signage, but there is still much work to do. In my opinion the best solution would be to copy and modify the principles of the Dutch NBA signage. It is clear, logical and looks good. I would post some of my works on the topic about new signage on the highway ([Drogi] Nowe oznakowanie autostradowe) but it is already dead :nuts:

Anyways... people working for the GDDKiA and the Ministry of Infrastructure should leave Poland once in a while to see how it's done professionally


----------



## ufonut

Madrawski97 said:


> Well, it is way better than the old signage, but there is still much work to do. In my opinion the best solution would be to copy and modify the principles of the Dutch NBA signage. It is clear, logical and looks good. I would post some of my works on the topic about new signage on the highway ([Drogi] Nowe oznakowanie autostradowe) but it is already dead :nuts:
> 
> Anyways... people working for the GDDKiA and the Ministry of Infrastructure should leave Poland once in a while to see how it's done professionally


The best would be this:

http://www.drogowskazclassic.pl/przyklady.php

Drogowskaz Classic by MAG

Nothing for GDDKiA to do but to copy it.


----------



## Kpc21

You could have put the author's nickname next to the photo as Kemo in the original Polish signage thread did... It's Bezimienny17. Respect the copyright.

I usually just use the quote function from the forum - it provides both nickname of the author and a link to the original post. And clearly marks that it is quotation.

Concerning the non-experimental signage...



Darole said:


> 73.


:bash:

Talking about the Ministry of Infrastructure, they recently started questioning the use of experimental signage by GDDKiA, as it's against the law...


----------



## Madrawski97

ufonut said:


> The best would be this:
> 
> http://www.drogowskazclassic.pl/przyklady.php
> 
> Drogowskaz Classic by MAG
> 
> Nothing for GDDKiA to do but to copy it.


Yep, Drogowskaz Classic is a perfect solution too. The worst thing is that someone has done all the work for them and they don't even bother to apply it...


----------



## Chris80678

According to the Polish forum, S5 expressway between the current terminus at Korzeńsko and the Krościna exit may open to traffic on 03.11.17 

This incorporates the Żmigródek and Żmigród exits


----------



## Kemo

Construction of S17 Warsaw - Lublin, photos from the contract website


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What are the criteria for using concrete in Poland? When is it used? It seems random to me.


----------



## Kemo

A decision was made to build some of the roads in asphalt and some in concrete (to diversify the market), but the choice of roads indeed seems to be random.


----------



## ufonut

"Według Michalskiego wszystko zaczęło się od opracowania, które w pierwszej perspektywie unijnej, GDDKiA zleciła Politechnice Warszawskiej pt. „Perspektywy kierunków rozwoju konstrukcji oraz nowych rozwiązań materiałowo-technologicznych nawierzchni drogowych w aspekcie ochrony środowiska i zrównoważonego rozwoju” . We wnioskach opracowania, które wyznaczało kierunki rozwoju na najbliższe 50 lat, znalazło się stwierdzenie, że budowa dróg powinna być w dwóch kierunkach – budowy dróg o nawierzchniach asfaltowych i o nawierzchniach betonowych. *Jak wybrać odcinki dróg przeznaczone do budowy w jednej i drugiej technologii? Zdaniem Michalskiego tym zajęły się już poszczególne departamenty GDDKiA. Przeprowadziły wielokryterialną analizę: po kątem natężenia ruchu, analizy hałasu, analizę zalet i wad wykonania, analizę kosztów budowy i utrzymania, analizę cen materiałów budowlanych, analizę jednorodności by usprawnić utrzymanie dróg. – Na drogi idzie 1% cementu produkowanego w Polsce więc cementownie nie mają motywacji, żeby w tym kierunku żonglować cenami. Z drugiej strony na drogi idzie aż 100% asfaltu i jego ceny mogą się zmieniać – wyjaśniał Michalski.*

*GDDKiA, podobnie jak administracje drogowe w innych krajach, przyjęła że drogi, na których natężenie ruchu przekracza 5 tysięcy pojazdów ciężkich na dobę będą wykonane w technologii betonowej. – Zostało wytypowane 810 km, z których wypadł teraz jeden odcinek drogi S7 – dodał Michalski."*

According to the above, choices between asphalt or concrete are not arbitrary but based on multiple selection criteria - number of cars, construction costs, noise levels, maintenance costs; all taken into account by regional GDDKiA offices. The guy also mentions that concrete is not susceptible to large price variances unlike asphalt (concrete used in road building makes up around 1% of the total amount of concrete available whereas asphalt is close to 100%). Final criteria is 5000 trucks or more per 24 hours equals concrete, less than that probably asphalt.


----------



## Kemo

Design & build contracts have been signed for 33 km of S19 _Via Carpatia_ (Kraśnik - Łążek Ordynacki) and 34 km of S61 _Via Baltica_ (Łomża - Szczuczyn).


----------



## Nowax

[S5] Ostróda - Grudziądz



Henry Gale said:


>


----------



## Nowax

^^



Henry Gale said:


>


----------



## metacatfry

What's the deal with that bridge pylon that's being demolished?

edit: vvv Thank you, I don't remember ever seeing reinforced concrete used temporarily.


----------



## SRC_100

^^
temporary support


----------



## Kemo

Upgrading old "Gierkówka" to "S" standard (section Warsaw - Mszczonów)

photos from contract website

Junction Paszków (DW721), end of existing motorway









Direction Katowice









Junction Nadarzyn (DW720)













































Junction Młochów


----------



## Kemo

Junction Siestrzeń




















PS
*S5* won't be opened tomorrow


----------



## Kemo

*S5* motorway, section Korzeńsko - Krościna (length *19.3 km*). Opening soon (maybe on Monday?)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There are a lot of satellite imagery updates in Google Earth recently. You can see almost the entire S3 under construction between Zielona Góra and Legnica on August/September 2017 satelite images.

A4/S3 interchange









three ecoducts in a row north of Legnica


----------



## Kemo

Construction permit was issued for the remaining section of S5 motorway between Grudziądz and Poznań.

S5: Bydgoszcz Opławiec – north of Bydgoszcz Błonie 13.5km (November 2017 to May 2019) – project – map


----------



## Chris80678

After false start, S5 Korzeńsko to Krościna may open 6th November 2017 :cheers:


----------



## Kemo

S5 opened 

http://www.openstreetmap.org/direct...6.9400;51.5405,16.8756#map=12/51.4619/16.9080


----------



## Chris80678

S5 opened

Great news :cheers:

Not long until opening of last segment of S5 to Wroclaw :banana:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The accents on Hradec Králové are missing. They did it correctly on a sign closer to Wrocław.


----------



## Kpc21

Still much better than "Zheshuv" seen on some signs in Ukraine... Who from non-Polish, non-Russian and non-Ukrainian speakers will understand which city it is?


----------



## Eulanthe

I have to say, I don't like those signs. Signing nothing between Wrocław and Hradec Králové makes zero sense, especially as heavy traffic heading towards Hradec Králové is obliged to use DK8 anyway.

It's also going to be completely confusing as the S5 will run into the A8, where Kudowa and Lubawka are signed.


----------



## masages21

Kpc21 said:


> Still much better than "Zheshuv" seen on some signs in Ukraine... Who from non-Polish, non-Russian and non-Ukrainian speakers will understand which city it is?


I am Polish and it took me a moment to understand what you meant. If I were driving, I doubt, I would understand it.


----------



## db84

^^ "Zheshuv" requires both: a knowledge of proper Polish pronunciation and a knowledge of English spelling curiosities. It is totally incomprehensible to anyone without both of them, so many Poles or other Slavs will not understand it anyway.

I believe that cities' names should always be written on signs as they are written in their original language. A person travelling to a foreign city must know its original name anyway.


----------



## geogregor

db84 said:


> I believe that cities' names should always be written on signs as they are written in their original language. A person travelling to a foreign city must know it's original name anyway.


Absolutely. The same applies to good maps. They should show original names/spellings. That way if you use map on the ground you know what to look for on signs, what to ask for etc.


----------



## SRC_100

^^
Yeah, it was funny to see on polish GM e.g. _SOLNOGRÓD_ instead of _SALZBURG_ or _GRADEC_ instead of _GRAZ_


----------



## masages21

true, even GDDKIA uses the name of Lviv not Lwow so that everyone understands


----------



## db84

masages21 said:


> true, even GDDKIA uses the name of Lviv not Lwow so that everyone understands


That is actually against what I wrote. Since Ukrainian is the primary langauge of Lwów, it should be spelled as Львів.

If the Drogowskaz typeface has no Cyrylic characters, then the gov't should hire an artist to design Cyrylic characters for Drogowskaz.


----------



## Kemo

Using just "Lviv" is debatable. It should be Львів / Lviv or Львів / Lwów



db84 said:


> If the Drogowskaz typeface has no Cyrylic characters, then the gov't should hire an artist to design Cyrylic characters for Drogowskaz.


This is not an issue:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kpc21 said:


> Still much better than "Zheshuv" seen on some signs in Ukraine... Who from non-Polish, non-Russian and non-Ukrainian speakers will understand which city it is?


Is there a photo of such a sign? That would be interesting. By the way, the name 'Zheshuv' is phonetically for 'Rzeszów', from Polish via Ukrainian to English.


----------



## chauffeur

SRC_100 said:


> ^^
> Yeah, it was funny to see on polish GM e.g. _SOLNOGRÓD_ instead of _SALZBURG_ or _*GRADEC*_ instead of _GRAZ_


In Polish it would be _Grodziec_.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What does the 'f' mean?


----------



## Luki_SL

^^It`s a "design section" of expressway S5. Every new constructed section of road (expressway, motorway) get another letter next to road number begining from a (b, c, d.., etc.).
These letters are usually shown on kilometer posts.


----------



## toonczyk

I'm not sure if that's the case here, but often the different designation comes from the fact that until all sections of the road have all permits finalized (so the final route is chosen), there could be inconsistencies in distance label on kilometer posts, because distance to point 0 is unknown at the moment of building. That's one of the reasons they use different road number designations for different sections.


----------



## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is there a photo of such a sign? That would be interesting. By the way, the name 'Zheshuv' is phonetically for 'Rzeszów', from Polish via Ukrainian to English.


https://www.google.com.ua/maps/@49....4!1sNb1lJblQDla0fXn6wZfEkw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656



> What does the 'f' mean?


As explained above.
On route 7 we may soon run out of letters. For example, this section is numbered "7r": https://www.google.pl/maps/@52.1188881,20.8804336,15z


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interestingly, the Ukrainian exonym for Rzeszów is not Же́шув (Zheshuv), but Ряшів (Ryashiv). But that wouldn't be any clearer to foreigners I'm afraid.


----------



## Kpc21

They should just use the Polish (and, at the same time, international) name instead of the Russian one written phonetically in English...

Few people of those who actually need it (because they understand no Cyrylic) will understand it.

Ryashiv would be maybe a little bit better, because it begins, at least, with R, same as Rzeszów.

A Polish person seeing Zheshuv *maybe* will try to read it loud and then it will come to his mind... "But this is pronounced like Rzeszów, they must mean Rzeszów!". If only this person will understand some English. But a foreigner, not understanding Polish and not understanding Cyrylic... I doubt.


----------



## Richard_P

ChrisZwolle said:


> Interestingly, the Ukrainian exonym for Rzeszów is not Же́шув (Zheshuv), but Ряшів (Ryashiv). But that wouldn't be any clearer to foreigners I'm afraid.


 There is only one mistake - that during transliteration is wrongly used English version not any kind of Slavic version. The same implies to Russia and all due to fact that English version is needed for programming and other reasons thus it is wrongly implied in other places. In reality Же́шув translated using Polish version would be Żeszuw which is also bad but more understandable while using more common Slavic version it would be Žešuv which is also bad but more understandable than English Zheshuv.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I'm pretty certain that the average foreigner not aware of Polish pronunciation has no idea how names like Rzeszów or Łódź are pronounced. They are unlikely to link Zheshuv to Rzeszów.


----------



## Kpc21

Exactly. So spelling such names phonetically on signs is really a bad idea.

Although sometimes you have no choice, like spelling the originally Cyrylic names in a country using Latin alphabet. Then the default transcription used in the language of the given country may differ from the English one, for example.

The spelling of the the Cyrylic names (in Latin alphabet) in the route planner system of the Polish railways is often a very weird combination of the Polish, German and English transcription. But anyway in this direction it's usually simpler and the differences, like whether "w" or "v" is used, or whether "ts", "tz" or "c" (for the same sound) are understandable for most people. The Cyrylic script has less redundancy and e.g. Polish "ż" and "rz" will be reflected in Cyrylic in the same way, same with Polish "u" and "ó" or "l" and "ł" (although in this last case, it will usually be indicated in such a way that for "l", the Cyrylic letter will have the soft sign added after it, for "ł" not).


----------



## db84

ChrisZwolle said:


> What does the 'f' mean?


These side poles are supposed to carry a number which means a distance from the start point of the road. For instance 123 4 would mean 123-th kilometer and 4-th hectometer from the beginning of the road. This way you can call emergency services giving your exact position, like A1, 123, 4.

Because roads like S5, S7 and other are still not completed, then we can not know exact position of segment somewhere in the middle, because the preceeding, yet not built, segments may be redesigned and the actual length would change. So a segment S5f would start its own numbering from 0 0. Therefore, when calling the emergency services, you are supposed to say S5f and the number on the pole.


----------



## Chris80678

According to the Polish forum the missing piece of S7 from Rychnowo to Olsztynek may open on Monday 20th November 2017 :banana:

That just leaves the gap of S7 Ostróda bypass to complete (this year?) so we will have a complete 145.5*km (90 miles) expressway from Elbląg in the north to the border of Warmia and Mazuria province at Napierki :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*tenders*



los77 said:


> *S61 - Szczuczyn - Raczki - otwarcie ofert na 3 zadania *​
> 
> Zadanie nr 1: odc. Szczuczyn - Węzeł Ełk Południe
> 
> Budżet : *725 141 435,64 zł*
> 
> 1. *POLAQUA 534 249 499,25 zł *
> 2. METROSTAV 538 391 126,16 zł
> 3. BUDIMEX 672 505 693,08 zł
> 
> Zadanie nr 2: odc. węzeł Ełk Południe - węzeł Wysokie (wraz z wyplotem w ciągu dk 16)
> 
> Budżet *729 593 516,50 zł*
> 
> 1. *METROSTAV 565 407 216,12 zł*
> 2. POLAQUA 613 232 718,71 zł
> 3. TRAKCJA, MOSTOSTAL Warszawa - 685 948 284,67 zł
> 
> Zadanie nr 3: odc. węzeł Wysokie - m. Raczki
> 
> Budżet : *637 840 995,86 zł*
> 
> 1. *METROSTAV 370 711 168,93 zł*
> 2. RUBAU POLSKA 417 585 000,00 zł
> 3. POLAQUA 426 104 802,17 zł
> 
> Wszystkie firmy zaoferowały ten sam czas realizacji : *29 m-cy*


I noticed that Metrostav did some really low bids on these three contracts for S61, becoming the lowest in all but one. Some of these bids are hugely under budget and also lower than the other low bids.

However it also struck me that Strabag made some unrealistically high offers, above budget and far above the others. What is the strategy behind that? Strabag is an experienced constructor in Poland, right?


----------



## SRC_100

^^
Yeah, Strabag is one of the most experienced big construction company in PL.
Strabag has given high prices for above tender probably becauses this company had been 
got a lot of contracts so far andits construction capacity is almost full for next cca. 3-4 years. 

Concerning S61 tenders opening, I`m suppose the GDDKiA decisions will be as follow:
Task 1:
- first two bids to be rejected due to low price;

Task 2:
- first bid to be rejected due to low price;

Task 3:
- first bid to be rejected due to low price;

They are just my assumptions


----------



## Kemo

After six months of "drought" in terms of new projects, some tenders for national roads have been started recently:

DK73 upgrade to 2x2 south of Kielce (4.2 km)
DK46 bypass of Myślina, 1x2 (3.2 km)
Dk46 bypass of Niemodiln, 2x2/2+1 (11.5 km)
DK47 "Zakopianka" Rdzawka - Nowy Targ, motorway-like 2x2 (16.1 km)

Probably more projects are coming.


----------



## Kemo

New alignment of route 454 in Opole was opened today: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/50.7186/17.8909

Viaduct over a railway, with Opole power plant in the background









Fireworks 









An unusual double roundabout (actually, one and half of a roundabout)









Bridge on Mała Panew, designed to look like an "older brother" of the neighbouring railway bridge









All four blue bridges in one photo 


















Source of photos: http://www.nto.pl/motofakty/na-drogach/a/obwodnica-czarnowasow-otwarta-zdjecia,12656508/
http://opole.wyborcza.pl/opole/7,35...asow-gotowa-wykonalismy-jazde-probna-jak.html


----------



## Kemo

S12 Puławy bypass

Interchange with S17









Direction Puławy









Junction Końskowola









Direction Puławy


















Junction Puławy East









Section Puławy Azoty - Puławy East was partially opened to traffic a few weeks ago









Junction Puławy Azoty









Bridge on Wisła and junction Puławy Dęblińska, opened in 2008









Photos from contract website


----------



## vitacit

next week i´m going to on the trip bratislava-zilina-bialsko biala-czestochowa-lodz-torun-gdansk-warszawa-kielce-krakow-bratislava. we plan to drive the highways so i was wondering how is it with the toll in poland ? how and where to pay ? thanks !!!


----------



## SRC_100

^^
If car < 3,5t you need to pay at toll boots just on the most norther part on A1, b/n Toruń and Gdańsk (30 PLN ~ 7,15 EUR) --> a1.com.pl

But if you take A4 going b/n Kraków and Bratislava, you need to pay also for A4 b/n Kraków - Katowice (also toll booths - 20 PLN ~ 4,75 EUR) --> autostrada-a4.com.pl


----------



## vitacit

SRC_100 said:


> ^^
> If car < 3,5t you need to pay at toll boots just on the most norther part on A1, b/n Toruń and Gdańsk (30 PLN ~ 7,15 EUR) --> a1.com.pl
> 
> But if you take A4 going b/n Kraków and Bratislava, you need to pay also for A4 b/n Kraków - Katowice (also toll booths - 20 PLN ~ 4,75 EUR) --> autostrada-a4.com.pl


thanks for info ! seems we will pay only for torun-gdansk part. we don´t take A4 (we just pass krakow from kielce down to zilina). looking forward to drive on your highways !!!


----------



## SRC_100

^^
So, from Kraków you are going to take DK7 south to Chyżne/Trstená bc?
Be careful when driving on DK1/S1, it can be kind of disaster, but there is not any better solution to avoid it. B/n Warszawa and Kraków I`m not sure to take DK7 is the best solutio...


----------



## pshPL

I would definitely recommend bypass Kielce and DK7 (unless you really have to go through Kielce / Krakow).

In my opinion it is better to use A2 / A1 / DK1 from Warsaw to Bielsko.


----------



## Chris80678

According to the Polish forum the missing piece of S7 from Rychnowo to Olsztynek may open on Monday 20th November 2017 

That just leaves the gap of S7 Ostróda bypass to complete (this year?) so we will have a complete 145.5*km (90 miles) expressway from Elbląg in the north to the border of Warmia and Mazuria province at Napierki

This opening of S7 (Rychnowo - Olsztynek) is delayed and will happen sometime after 20th November 2017 :bash:

Progress seems to be quite slow


----------



## Rombi

Chris80678 said:


> That just leaves the gap of S7 Ostróda bypass to complete (this year?) so we will have a complete 145.5*km (90 miles) expressway from Elbląg in the north to the border of Warmia and *Mazuria* province at Napierki


I believe you meant *Mazovia* if we stick to english translation


----------



## Kpc21

He meant "granica województwa warmińsko-mazurskiego".


----------



## masages21

Recently, we talked about the names of cities in neighbouring countries on road signs and the way they should be presented. For non-Polish users the article below is about GDDKiA's project to introduce a new pattern of road signs. Cities in neighbouring countries are to be presented with 2 names; a Polish and a local one. The first name will be the Polish one and the 2nd name would the local one which should be written in brackets. For example; Praga (Praha) for Czech Prague. In case the city has a name written in a cyrylic alphabet the latin transcription will be provided.

http://www.rynekinfrastruktury.pl/w...ch-znakach-koszt-minimum-27-mln-zl-60615.html


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## ChrisZwolle

What is the point. If you're going to Prague, you'll eventually have to follow signs with 'Praha' anyway. This will only add clutter to the Polish signs.


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## Kpc21

Personally, I can't see much point in it, but there are people claiming that if we are in Poland, we should use the Polish language.

A plus can be that if, say, someone Polish drives from Poland to Vilnius, not knowing its Lithuanian name, he will first see signs with "Wilno (Vilnius)", so he will learn to expect signs with "Vilnius" instead of "Wilno" in Lithuania.

For me, exchanging the old signs is a waste of money though. They should use the bilingual version only in case of new signs, that would be enough.


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## MajKeR_

SRC_100 said:


> Yeah, it was funny to see on polish GM e.g. _SOLNOGRÓD_ instead of _SALZBURG_ or _GRADEC_ instead of _GRAZ_


Seeing Slovenian _Beljak_ next to _Villach_ at their signs is even funnier, as far as I'm concerned


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## Kpc21

Normally road maps always use the original city names - in the language used in the specific city - and not the names from the languages of the country where the map was issued.

This way:
- even if you buy a foreign map, you have no problem reading it,
- the names on the map are compliant with the names on road signs.

Displaying the names on Google Maps only in the language dependent on the language version of Google Maps which is currently opened by the user is actually quite weird and may cause problems.

Big differences in the names are especially in Hungarian. They have totally different names for many cities. Probably having something to do with the past and the times when they belonged to Hungary or Austro-Hungary.

In Poland, we are quite liberal, and, for example, we don't call Kaliningrad Królewiec in Polish any more. Kaliningrad is just Kaliningrad nowadays. But I wonder what Germans do, because they use their old names for many Polish formerly-German cities - so do they also call Kaliningrad Königsberg then?

On the other hand, some towns in Germany especially close to the Polish border have Polish names, like Bautzen - Budziszyn, czy Cottbus - Chociebuż (there are also some with much bigger differences between the Polish and the German name) and those names exist and are still considered correct in Polish (unlike Królewiec)... Another thing is that Poles usually use the German names for the German cities in practice, often not even knowing the Polish one. You will for sure find many Poles in Aachen calling this city just Aachen and not even knowing it's called Akwizgran in Polish even though they live there. Unlike it is in the east, for which Poles usually use the Polish names.


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## ChrisZwolle

Som exonyms have a tendency to become in disuse after some time. Of course the main ones will remain (country names, capital cities, other historically important ones, etc.) but many smaller ones will be replaced by endonyms over time. 

Sometimes there is only a minor difference between an exonym and endonym. Praga / Praha is only 1 letter difference. In Dutch, Bazel becomes less used because Basel sounds almost exactly the same and doesn't cause confusion. In Poland, Praga is also a large district in Warsaw (or Warszawa if you will  )


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## flusispieler

Kpc21 said:


> [...] so do they also call Kaliningrad Königsberg then?


Speaking from my experience.
'Königsberg' is used for the historic city (until WWII).
A typical example would be when talking about heritage. You'd say your grandparents are from Königsberg instead of Kaliningrad.

On the other hand the modern city is usually referred to as Kaliningrad.

This differs from many other formerly German cities which are usually still called by their German names (and many Germans probably don't even know the Polish/International names). Examples being Danzig/Gdansk, Breslau/Wroclaw or Stettin/Szczecin.


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## Kpc21

An interesting case among those names is Piła (Polish) - Schneidemühl (German). The Polish name means "a saw" (die Säge in German), the German one "a cutting mill", both of which seem to refer to a water- or (less likely) wind-powered sawmill.

Many are translated phonetically, or, at least, are literal translations but also sound quite similarly. Here, the name sounds totally different, has even different literal meanings, but in general, the meaning is the same.


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## Kanadzie

Thinking of Prague... this sign is everywhere there...


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## masages21

Kpc21 said:


> Normally road maps always use the original city names - in the language used in the specific city - and not the names from the languages of the country where the map was issued.
> 
> This way:
> - even if you buy a foreign map, you have no problem reading it,
> - the names on the map are compliant with the names on road signs.
> 
> Displaying the names on Google Maps only in the language dependent on the language version of Google Maps which is currently opened by the user is actually quite weird and may cause problems.
> 
> Big differences in the names are especially in Hungarian. They have totally different names for many cities. Probably having something to do with the past and the times when they belonged to Hungary or Austro-Hungary.
> 
> In Poland, we are quite liberal, and, for example, we don't call Kaliningrad Królewiec in Polish any more. Kaliningrad is just Kaliningrad nowadays. But I wonder what Germans do, because they use their old names for many Polish formerly-German cities - so do they also call Kaliningrad Königsberg then?
> 
> On the other hand, some towns in Germany especially close to the Polish border have Polish names, like Bautzen - Budziszyn, czy Cottbus - Chociebuż (there are also some with much bigger differences between the Polish and the German name) and those names exist and are still considered correct in Polish (unlike Królewiec)... Another thing is that Poles usually use the German names for the German cities in practice, often not even knowing the Polish one. You will for sure find many Poles in Aachen calling this city just Aachen and not even knowing it's called Akwizgran in Polish even though they live there. Unlike it is in the east, for which Poles usually use the Polish names.


my favourite one is Ratyzbona for Regensburg which seems super weird to me.


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## MichiH

flusispieler said:


> This differs from many other formerly German cities which are usually still called by their German names (and many Germans probably don't even know the Polish/International names). Examples being Danzig/Gdansk, Breslau/Wroclaw or Stettin/Szczecin.


I know the Polish names of the cities mentioned but I have no idea how to pronounce them. For this reason, I only use the German name when talking. Which is very rare though...


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## Varsben

masages21 said:


> my favourite one is Ratyzbona for Regensburg which seems super weird to me.


There is nothing particularly "super weird" about this name. 

As some other Polish names of German cities, it is derived from the ancien Celtic _Radasbona_, through its Latin version _Ratisbona_. One should keep in mind that in the medieval era Latin was the main language used in writing in Poland. The cities in question were important cultural centres exerting influence eastwards, hence their Latin naming tradition here.

The same pattern applies, e.g. to _Akwizgran_ (Aachen), _Moguncja_ (Mainz), _Kolonia_ (Koeln) ...

True, even some Poles are unaware that these Polish/Latin versions exist. Which is a pity, IMO. But, interestingly enough, no-one in Poland seems to have any problem with _Monachium_ (Muenchen).


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## Kpc21

With Kolonia (Köln) as well, although here, the name follows the Latin origin also in English (Cologne).

Concerning Munich, maybe it's thanks to the Bayern Munich. People hear all the time "Bayern Monachium" on the sports news, so they get used to.

By the way, the name of Milan in Polish is Mediolan. And talking about their football clubs, I always hear on the Polish sports news A.C. Milan, but Inter Mediolan. Don't ask why.


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## Kemo

*S11* - section conecting S8 with Dk11 north of Kępno. It looks like it will be completed ahead of schedule (deadline is August 2018).


















































































Source and more photos:
http://www.s11-obwodnicakepna.pl/zdjecia-lotnicze


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## Kemo

S8 Warsaw - Radzymin. There is a chance that the road will be opened before Christmas, ...



















...but outside of the main carriageways, it is still far from being completed:




























photos by *psul*: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=143446248&postcount=6743


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## ChrisZwolle

It's interesting that they use cable barriers on S8. I'm not aware of any other country using them on high-volume motorways. They are typically installed in rural areas to reduce cost and a number of countries don't use them at all.


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## tunnel owl

Kpc21 said:


> But I wonder what Germans do, because they use their old names for many Polish formerly-German cities - so do they also call Kaliningrad Königsberg then?
> 
> On the other hand, some towns in Germany especially close to the Polish border have Polish names, like Bautzen - Budziszyn, czy Cottbus - Chociebuż


Those names sound polish as they derive from the minority called Sorben, a people with slawic roots living near the polish border. It was back in the GDR, when the Sorben got back their language and names for cities.

Coming to Kaliningrad most of the germans would called it like that, as Königsberg is far away in history and geographically. Bigger polish cities like Wroclaw or Poznan will be used as Breslau or Posen in german. But small cities like Gorzow, no one uses Landsberg anymore. As already said, it depends on how different the polish/german names are and how important the town is. BTW do you say Norynberga or Nürnberg in Poland?


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## ChrisZwolle

There are also a lot of exonyms for foreign towns and cities that are hardly ever mentioned in the media or daily conversation. These typically become disused over time. 

For example, how well known is Ankona (the Italian city of Ancona) in Poland?


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## SRC_100

tunnel owl said:


> BTW do you say Norynberga or Nürnberg in Poland?


Norymberga


ChrisZwolle said:


> For example, how well known is Ankona (the Italian city of Ancona) in Poland?


I know Ancona, but think that 90% poles have no idea where is it, especiall when you find out that the most of poles think that Madrid (Madryt) or Barcelona are cities in Italy... :lol:


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## Richard_P

masages21 said:


> In case the city has a name written in a cyrylic alphabet the *latin transcription will be provided*.


 Why the hell would they do that? To create monstrosity comparable to Ukrainian Zhezhiv (or something like that) discussed recently :nuts: Which transliteration would they choose Polish or through ignorance English? Will we have sign for Chmielnicki in Ukrainian Хмельницький translated again using Polish Chmelnickij or English version of Khmelnitskiy :nuts: 


Chmielnicki (Хмельницький Khmelnitskiy) :lol:


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## ufonut

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's interesting that they use cable barriers on S8. I'm not aware of any other country using them on high-volume motorways. They are typically installed in rural areas to reduce cost and a number of countries don't use them at all.


I wondered about the same thing thinking that these cables can't stop a fully loaded semi barreling down at 100 km/hour from crossing the median onto oncoming traffic. These cables look very flimsy. I think it's another copy of Scandinavian way of doing things - first the Norwegian gantries and now Swedish cables. They should have put up concrete blocks instead.


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## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> For example, how well known is Ankona (the Italian city of Ancona) in Poland?


Well. both names sound the same, so it's not a good example...


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## Kpc21

tunnel owl said:


> But small cities like Gorzow, no one uses Landsberg anymore. As already said, it depends on how different the polish/german names are and how important the town is. BTW do you say Norynberga or Nürnberg in Poland?


Well, Gorzów is a voivodeship capital, so I wouldn't call it a small town 

And I believe, I have recently seen the name "Landsberg" somewhere on the German Internet. Maybe on a railway forum, where someone was reporting his train spotting trip to Poland.

We actually say Nory*m*berga in Polish  With "m", like Nuremberg in English.



SRC_100 said:


> I know Ancona, but think that 90% poles have no idea where is it, especiall when you find out that the most of poles think that Madrid (Madryt) or Barcelona are cities in Italy... :lol:


I have heard this name before, but it's not like I know the city and where it is located 

And the pronunciation is the same whether you spell it Ancona or Ankona. So it really makes no much difference.



ChrisZwolle said:


> There are also a lot of exonyms for foreign towns and cities that are hardly ever mentioned in the media or daily conversation. These typically become disused over time.


And this way you get Poles living in Aachen and not knowing this city is called Akwizgran in Polish 

The city is important from historic point of view, but nowadays, nothing very important from the international point of view happens there, so the name rarely appears on the media in Poland.

Or, I think I have heard someone Polish (who doesn't speak French, of course) pronouncing Mulhouse as if it was in English. And its Polish name - Miluza - reflects quite exactly the correct French pronunciation 

Interesting is Istanbul. In Polish - Stambuł. "I" disappears, "n" gets replaced with "m" (similarly as in case of Nuremberg). 

Why are they gonna use Latin transcriptions of Ukrainian/Belarussian/Russian names? Because not many people in Poland can read Russian alphabet (I can because I had 2 years of Russian course in primary school, but not everyone was so lucky especially among the younger generations, many of the older people who have learnt Russian at school but never used it later have forgotten it too). And even less people can do it in the western Europe - those who can potentially want to go to Ukraine/Belarus/Russia through Poland. Names in Cyrylic would be useless for them, the Polish names - for those coming from the West - will be also kind of useless because they are sometimes different from the English or international ones, or use different spelling (see Rzeszów vs. Zheshuf).


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## Kemo

Kpc21 said:


> Why are they gonna use Latin transcriptions of Ukrainian/Belarussian/Russian names? Because not many people in Poland can read Russian alphabet


Then it would be a good occasion to learn this alphabet. So that if you find yourself in Ukraine with signage to Львів, you won't be lost.



> (I can because I had 2 years of Russian course in primary school, but not everyone was so lucky especially among the younger generations, many of the older people who have learnt Russian at school but never used it later have forgotten it too).


I learnt the Cyrillic alphabet during a one-day trip to Lviv by trying to decipher various signboards.  It was possible because Polish and Ukrainian languages are similar. But a non-Slav wouldn't manage to learn it that fast.



> And even less people can do it in the western Europe - those who can potentially want to go to Ukraine/Belarus/Russia through Poland. Names in Cyrylic would be useless for them, the Polish names - for those coming from the West - will be also kind of useless because they are sometimes different from the English or international ones, or use different spelling (see Rzeszów vs. Zheshuf).


Polish names aren't that different from "international" ones.


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## Kpc21

Kemo said:


> Then it would be a good occasion to learn this alphabet. So that if you find yourself in Ukraine with signage to Львів, you won't be lost.


Yeah, but while it's easy to learn the original names written in Latin in such a way, because they are composed of the letters which are already known to you, it's not so easy to learn a new alphabet in such a way. Especially when you have to be focused on driving and the signs shouldn't distract you.

When you find yourself in Ukraine, their road signs are usually in both alphabets, so this is not such a problem.

And, anyway, you don't have to guess which version of transcription of the Cyrylic names to Latin alphabet will be used because this system is currently used as the only one on the Polish signs directing to cities in Ukraine/Belarus/Russia  Lwów/Lviv is spelled as L'viv on the signs, for example.



> I learnt the Cyrillic alphabet during a one-day trip to Lviv by trying to decipher various signboards.  It was possible because Polish and Ukrainian languages are similar. But a non-Slav wouldn't manage to learn it that fast.


Congratulations  When I was in Greece, deciphering the words in the Greek alphabet also wasn't a very big problem, because, once, it's a bit similar to Cyrylic (Cyrylic actually originated from the Greek alphabet), two, you usually know the Greek letters used as symbols in maths and physics.

But when I see, for example, the Arabic script, I have totally no idea what the specific letters represent. Same with the Thai one, for example.



> Polish names aren't that different from "international" ones.


Well, it makes some sense, but still some differences may appear and then it's, at least, a difficulty for the drivers.

But, as I already said, most likely the current standard will be used, that is, the Polish transliteration from Ukrainian (see here: https://sjp.pwn.pl/zasady/318-78-A-...polczesnego-alfabetu-ukrainskiego;629711.html), which should be easily understood.


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## Richard_P

Kpc21 said:


> Names in Cyrylic would be useless for them, the Polish names - for those coming from the West - will be also kind of useless because they are sometimes different from the English or international ones, or use different spelling (see Rzeszów vs. Zheshuf).


 But do those western nations give a ship to guide eastern travellers or you need to use their language? Why use English as Brexitiers clearly proved where they have Europe in mind. Is it so hard to follow A4 route to border with signs Lwów (Львів) instead of Lviv? To most EU nations English transliterations from cyrilic are the same dumb as Polish so why to use English one or why to use it at all?


----------



## MichiH

SRC_100 said:


> there is no such thing like a european or world motorway standard





Kpc21 said:


> Maybe there is no European or world standard (or norm) for a motorway


http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/conventn/crt1968e.pdf



> Chapter 1, article 1
> 
> (j) "Motorway" means a road specially designed and built for motor traffic, which does not serve properties bordering on it, and which:
> 
> 
> (i) Is provided, except at special points or temporarily, with separate carriageways for the two directions of traffic, separated from each other either by a dividing strip not intended for traffic or, exceptionally, by other means;
> (ii) Does not cross at level with any road, railway or tramway track, or footpath; and
> (iii) Is specially signposted as a motorway


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## Kpc21

Polish expressways can theoretically cross at level with other roads in exceptional cases.

You have one example here: https://goo.gl/maps/hdSG24n8nKU2 - even with a zebra crossing.

Still, simply specifically this road, in this place, shouldn't be marked as a motorway. It can remain a "road for motor vehicles", according to the original meaning of the current "expressway" sign, I would resurrect.


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## SRC_100

MichiH said:


> http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/conventn/crt1968e.pdf


It is not very important document, which nobody respects.
In addition, the definitions contained therein do not prejudge anything.
If we compare dutch motorways standard to polish one, the polish motorways shouldn`t be sign as motorways.


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## Kpc21

The definition in there has meaning only there and nowhere else.

Although I have just seen an analysis where someone tried to apply the definition of "changing direction of motion" from the convention to some regulation from our highway code, regarding the cyclists' rights. Arguing that a ratified convention is a legal act of a higher rank than a standard parliamentary legal act /yes, it is, but it mostly doesn't contain regulations that would apply directly to the drivers, but rather to the legislators, telling how the local law should look like - so as a result, the local law is what actually holds/.

This was, of course, bull...t. Applying a definition from one totally different legal act, written originally in a different language (and only translated to Polish), to the Polish highway code, makes no sense.

Let's let someone Dutch tell us something about the motorway standards in the Netherlands, then we can compare them with our ones.


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## ChrisZwolle

A motorway in the Netherlands is a legal term, applying motorway status to a road designed according to the ROA - _Richtlijnen Ontwerp Autosnelwegen_ (guidelines motorway design). 

As far as I know it is mostly about geometric design and not things like a minimum distance between exits, though there are design standards for the minimum length of an auxiliary lane between slip ramps.

For example S2 in Warsaw would've been a motorway in the Netherlands (like A10 in Amsterdam, which has a considerably higher exit density than S2).


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## MAG

ChrisZwolle said:


> ... S2 in Warsaw would've been a motorway in the Netherlands ...


The S2 is not a motorway in Poland for the same reasons, i.e. because it does not conform to design guidelines (exit density, lane width, hard shoulder width). But I am curious, which specific aspects of design prevent the S2 from being a motorway in the Netherlands?

Also, do you follow the V-model of design, described in the ROA, strictly or pragmatically, that is, as the situation/cost targets/ecology demand?




.


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## Kpc21

He writes that it *would* be a motorway in Netherlands.

Anyway, the S2 in Warsaw is not a motorway mainly for political reasons.


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## MAG

I misread and misquoted, I apologise (and I must remind myself not to multitask any more, as clearly I don't have enough oestrogen).

Let me re-phrase the question: what would it take in the Netherlands, in terms of design, to downgrade a road such as the S2 in Warsaw to a non-motorway status? If you fail to meet one aspect of ROA guidelines, is this enough to downgrade a road or is it more complicated than that?




Kpc21 said:


> Anyway, the S2 in Warsaw is not a motorway mainly for political reasons.


I guess you refer to the political decision not to charge a toll fee on the S2? I am sure we could have found many a legal instrument to circumvent this requirement like we did in other parts of the country. 

To be honest, the S2 is a fine and well-engineered road and it hurts a little that we chose to call it anything but a motorway. I'll leave the discussion there because I know this topic can become heated and get out of hand very quickly.


.


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## Kpc21

I have no idea how much truth is in it, but when I asked in the Polish SSC sections, some users pointed out it was because of some NIMBY-type protests where people didn't want a motorway.

So, it was decided it will be an expressway and everyone is happy.

It makes no sense, but you know, expressway sounds different from motorway.


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## Grzegorz.Janoszka

MAG said:


> Let me re-phrase the question: what would it take in the Netherlands, in terms of design, to downgrade a road such as the S2 in Warsaw to a non-motorway status? If you fail to meet one aspect of ROA guidelines, is this enough to downgrade a road or is it more complicated than that?


One example:
https://www.google.nl/maps/@52.4402...4!1sYDurkS3QSIAFvSXdM4fNTA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

This used to be a highway A208. A few years ago it was renamed to N208 and the speed limit was set to 70 km/h. I guess it was because it didn't fulfill all requirements and because of proximity to houses (noise).


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## ChrisZwolle

Not many motorways in the Netherlands have been downgraded. A270 was shortened because they added traffic lights and A261 was absorbed into the N261 expressway project, so they had a uniform road configuration. The southern portion of A325 was reconstructed to an urban arterial with traffic lights. These are all former motorways with a length of only a few kilometers.

A good example is A2/N2 around Eindhoven. A2 forms the express lanes, built with motorway standards, while N2 forms the collector lanes, built with expressway standard. You can clearly see the difference in horizontal and vertical alignment, in addition to the lower speed limit, lack of shoulders and slightly narrower lanes.


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## Chris80678

This article is from the Polish road forum


http://gazetaolsztynska.pl/480223,O...pod-choinke-Bardzo-mozliwe.html#axzz4ziDJZrJA


I have translated and summarised key points for non-Polish speakers:


*11km of new S7 (Rychnowo-Olsztynek) will open to drivers next week

*We will have to wait a bit longer for completion and opening of S7 Ostróda bypass

*S51 (Olsztynek-Olsztyn) may open end of December. However, this depends on weather and the pace of the new contractor so is not guaranteed. The new contractor is doing all they can to get road open by end of December

*The entire S7 from Napierki to Płońsk may be completed by mid 2021


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## ufonut

S8 (Ostrow Mazowiecka (MA) - voivodeship border (PD) )


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## Luki_SL

S5 Expressway contruction near Wrocław. It`s said to be open before X-mas.



Kazusik said:


> ^^
> 
> Foty z lotnicze za XI z zad. III
> _WS-28 - montowano bariery energochłonne na dojazdach do wiaduktu_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _WD-29 - wykonywano drobne naprawy powierzchni betonowych przed hydrofobizacją_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _WS-30 - wykonywano umocnienia skarp, montowano bariery i balustrady_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _WS-31 - w oddali widoczna Trzebnica_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _WS-31 na węźle Trzebnica - wykonano nawierzchnię SMA na nitce prawej trasy głównej, montowano bariery i balustrady na obiekcie_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _WS-32 - widok na nitkę prawą obiektu, montowano bariery i balustrady na obiekcie_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _jw/ nitka lewa_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _WS-33 - widok na nitkę lewą - umacnianie skarpy, montowano bariery energochłonne_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _j/w nitka prawa_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _WD-35 - wykonywano drobne naprawy powierzchni betonowych przed hydrofobizacją_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _MS-36 - wykonano SMA i przeciwspadki, montowano ekrany oraz bariery energochłonne_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _MS-36 - w oddali widoczna istniejąca droga krajowa nr 5_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _MS-36 - widok na podporę P-6 (od strony Wrocławia) - wykonywano umocnienia stożków nasypowych_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _WD-37 - wykonano izolacjonawierzchnię na kapach chodnikowych_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Węzeł Kryniczno - wiadukt WD-38 - montowano balustrady na gzymsach skrzydeł_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _WS-39 - wykonywano bariery energochłonne na dojazdach do obiektu_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _WS-40 - montowano bariey energochłonne na dojazdach do obiektu, wykonano hydrofobizację powierzchni betonowych_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _MS-41 - widok od strony Poznania - montowano pochylnie wewnątrz dźwigarów skrzynkowych_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _MS-41 - widok w stronę Poznania - montowano ekrany przeciwolśnieniowe oraz bariery energochłonne_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Widok znad węzła Widawa na drogę ekspresową S-5, za AOW widoczny most MS-41 o długości całkowitej 750 m_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Węzeł Widawa - na pierwszym planie wiadukt WD-45 w ciągu łączni W-2 - wykonywano bariery energochłonne na dojazdach do obiektu_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Węzeł Widawa - nad rondem Obrońców Grodna wiadukt WD-43 - na zjeździe z obiektu wzdłuż ścian oporowych M-3 i M4 trwa demontaż barier betonowych i montaż barier docelowych stalowych_


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## Chris80678

Opening of S5 Kroscina to Wroclaw before Christmas is not guaranteed because of a bad winter. Same can be said for S8 Marki-Radzymin (Salini have been threatened with legal action if they break their contract) and S8 (Podlaskie/Mazovian border to Jezewo) 

We just have to wait and see what happens


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## masages21

doesn't Salini have more than one delayed contract? That wouldn't help them in court.


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## Chris80678

masages21 said:


> doesn't Salini have more than one delayed contract? That wouldn't help them in court.


They also have contracts for A1 (Czestochowa bypass), S3 Nowa Sol-Legnica and S7 Checiny-Jedrzejow (all under construction)


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## Kemo

Chris80678 said:


> They also have contracts for A1 (Czestochowa bypass), S3 Nowa Sol-Legnica and S7 Checiny-Jedrzejow (all *under construction*)


That's debatable :troll: Especially on S3 Polkowice - Lubin. Nothing is going on at the construction site. Deadline is in June 2018. It will certainly be delayed.
S7 is already delayed by one month. But it is still far from being completed. Autumn 2018 maybe?
A1 has deadline on April 2019, so there is still a lot of time. But the pace of work on this section is rather slow.

They also have a contract for one section of S7 "Zakopianka". Deadline is in July 2018. It will be delayed, too.


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## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> That's debatable :troll: Especially on S3 Polkowice - Lubin. Nothing is going on at the construction site. Deadline is in June 2018. It will certainly be delayed.
> S7 is already delayed by one month. But it is still far from being completed. Autumn 2018 maybe?
> A1 has deadline on April 2019, so there is still a lot of time. But the pace of work on this section is rather slow.
> 
> They also have a contract for one section of S7 "Zakopianka". Deadline is in July 2018. It will be delayed, too.


Not looking good for Salini. Doubt they will get more contracts in Poland


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## masages21

does GDDKiA has any kind of black list of contractors? I'd welcome Salini there


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## Luki_SL

^^No the GDDKiA hasn't any black list, but it should be.


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## vitacit

two weeks ago i was in poland by car (bratislava-b.biala-katowice-lodz-gdansk-hel-malbork-warszawa-bratislava) and i was totally impressed by the quality of your roads. wide, fast, not too big traffic (except silesia area). well, it´s rather easy to build road on the flatland then in the mountains like here in slovakia))))... still, the polish truck drivers drive like crazy)))


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## ufonut

S5 (Rawicz-Wroclaw) by *Darole* 

Experimental signage:


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## Kemo

vitacit said:


> well, it´s rather easy to build road on the flatland then in the mountains like here in slovakia


Not always. Often the ground is weak and needs to be strenghtened. That's why construction of S7 in Żuławy (the flattest area of Poland) is as expensive as construction of S7 in the mountains.

__________________________________________________

Planned motorway openings for this week:

*S7* Rychnowo - Olsztynek West
*S19* Świlcza - Rzeszów South


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## vitacit

Kemo said:


> Not always. Often the ground is weak and needs to be strenghtened. That's why construction of S7 in Żuławy (the flattest area of Poland) is as expensive as construction of S7 in the mountains.
> 
> still, the roads are great. i know southern poland very well but never been northern than lodz before and not only roads but also poland in general has made impressive step head in all the spheres. you are just great neighbour)))


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## S K W

vitacit said:


> two weeks ago i was in poland by car (bratislava-b.biala-katowice-lodz-gdansk-hel-malbork-warszawa-bratislava) and i was totally impressed by the quality of your roads. wide, fast, not too big traffic (except silesia area). well, it´s rather easy to build road on the flatland then in the mountains like here in slovakia))))... still, the polish truck drivers drive like crazy)))



Traffic is more likely to happen on east-west roads (A4, A2). North-south mostly during summer time towards sea towns and cities and winter towards mountains (better do not go to Zakopane around new year)


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## bleetz

vitacit said:


> still, the roads are great. i know southern poland very well but never been northern than lodz before and not only roads but also poland in general has made impressive step head in all the spheres. you are just great neighbour)))


Yeah It's pretty insane. I remember in the 90s Lithuania had better roads than Poland, now it all seems like a weird and unrealistic dream


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## [email protected]

Any agreements to be signed in the next few days/weeks in regards to road/highway construction?


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## ChrisZwolle

Kemo said:


> Planned motorway openings for this week:
> 
> *S7* Rychnowo - Olsztynek West
> *S19* Świlcza - Rzeszów South


S7 will open to traffic tomorrow. :discoduck:


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## Chris80678

ChrisZwolle said:


> S7 will open to traffic tomorrow. :discoduck:


Excellent. Here is to opening of S7 Ostróda bypass soon as well :cheers:


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## Kemo

[email protected] said:


> Any agreements to be signed in the next few days/weeks in regards to road/highway construction?


*S3* Ostromice - Miękowo: http://www.openstreetmap.org/direct...4.7584;53.6242,14.8187#map=11/53.7207/14.7883

and modernisation of *S3* Goleniów - Rzęśnica: http://www.openstreetmap.org/direct...4.8075;53.4256,14.7703#map=11/53.4811/14.7910
(this is the infamous section of "S" with the only at-grade intersection in Poland)


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## Chris80678

http://www.gazetawroclawska.pl/komu...twieraja-droge-s5-najnowsze-zdjecia,12739833/

Remaining S5 from Krosina to Wroclaw opens next week


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## Kpc21

While the state of the inter-city roads is usually very good in Poland, the condition of the city streets is often bad.


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## geogregor

ufonut said:


> S8 (Ostrow Mazowiecka (MA) - voivodeship border (PD) )


This road is dead straight like freeway somewhere in North Dakota, just with more trees


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## Nowax

los77 said:


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## plus ratio quam vis

vitacit said:


> you are just great neighbour)))


I wonder if Slovak people know that we ( Poles in general ) like them too ?


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## Kemo

^^
Speaking of Slovakia, it is now little bit "closer" to Poland, because bypass of Rzeszów (S19/DK19) was opened today:



jarfi said:


>


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## Chris80678

Rumours from insiders at Gddkia are that S51 Olstzynek - Olsztyn could open 12th December. Nothing is confirmed for definite. Would be excellent if opening date is true


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## Kemo

Driving video from the section of S7 motorway that was opened yesterday



los77 said:


> S7 OLSZTYNEK - RYCHNOWO - w obie strony


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## Rusonaldo

Expressway S5 Rydzyna - Wrocław Nord


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## ChrisZwolle

You could argue whether Praha needs to be signed so far in advance, even before Warszawa. Łódź and Wrocław are major cities that traffic will pass before they have to focus on Praha as the next major city. 

While I applaud the usage of foreign cities on Polish signage, I think that it would be sufficient to start signing Praha no sooner than at Łódź. Especially because from Warszawa there are many other major cities to be signed, on S8 you can think of Łódź, Wrocław, Katowice and some closer regional cities.


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## rakcancer

I would agree but in this case there are no bigger cities on the way between Lodz and Wroclaw and then all the way to the border. None of them at least has 100K in population. Biggest, beside few satellite cities adjacent to Lodz are Piotrkow Trybunalski and Tomaszow Mazowiecki with less that 100K and then Sieradz and Zdunska Wola with less that 50k which for Poland is rather small city or town.


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## Kpc21

Still, this road would be (indirectly) used to get to many other Polish cities.

But the policy of our roads authority is to indicate the cities on the given road (here: DK8/E67); those to which you must leave the current road and switch to another one are considered only an addition.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Wow, they mean business now that foreign cities can be signed.


But it's rather a random thing. Once they think about that and put a foreign city, another time they thoughtlessly put just the name of the village with the border crossing, and then we have names of villages with just a few houses (like e.g. Jędrzychowice or Olszyna - have a trip: https://goo.gl/maps/HvdLejryYDu - Olszyna, indicated on a motorway in Poland, is a little poor post-German village without even an asphalt road) indicated on motorways.


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## Kemo

Such signage first appeared in 2014



Kemo said:


> Czech and Lithuanian (and Polish) capitals on one sign
> 
> photo by los77


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## rakcancer

I don't understand. How come Vilnius and Praha are on the same sign? Where is it?


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## Luki_SL

^^That`s Augustów bypass, I guess


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## OulaL

Am I supposed to understand that the distance to Prague is calculated through 8 (which goes via Warsaw) but Warsaw itself through 61?


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## Halfpipesaur

^^
Yes. Both 8 and 61 lead to Warsaw. 

I would've put Warsaw between Białystok and Prague and Łomża instead of Warsaw as the direction for the 61 road. For some reason people who design these signs often make the least logical choices when it comes to directional cities.


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## Kemo

Because the route of DK8 isn't logical at all.
From Białystok DK8 should keep going north-east to Grodno (BY).

But the most absurd thing is the fact that when you enter Warsaw from NE, suddenly all signs on S8 lead to Wrocław. Which is 300 km from Warsaw and there is an equally large city directly in between (Łódź). But finding Łódź signposted somewhere in Warsaw is nearly impossible.
Then you get to the old good Gierkówka (aka "Trasa Katowicka"). Everybody knows that this road connects Warsaw and Katowice - two biggest agglomerations in Poland. But of course, you won't find a single sign for Katowice. Only Wrocław and Wrocław.
And actually the faster and more convenient route from Warsaw to Wrocław leads via A2-A1-S8...


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## db84

About the discussion whether distance to Łódź is more important than distance to Praha.

Notice that this is a road with european E-something number. Because of that GDDKiA may feel obliged to make distance board more "worldly".

BTW. What about the famous Terespol? Have they replaced it with Minsk, Kiev or Moscow?


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## ChrisZwolle

Kemo said:


> But the most absurd thing is the fact that when you enter Warsaw from NE, suddenly all signs on S8 lead to Wrocław. Which is 300 km from Warsaw and there is an equally large city directly in between (Łódź). But finding Łódź signposted somewhere in Warsaw is nearly impossible.


I believe this is due to the fact that out of the three major roads in the general area (DK1, DK2 and DK8), two of them (DK2 and DK8) did not go through Łódź, but farther north and south respectively. This downgraded the importance of Łódź on the signage plans. 

Nowadays A1, A2 and S8 meet at Łódź, which means this city has become an important focal point on the signage in Poland. It's right in the center of the country, three motorways meet there and it's also one of the largest cities in the country. I think Łódź should be prominently signed from all directions on A1, A2 and S8. 

Things have surely changed for Łódź over the past 5 years.


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## Kpc21

db84 said:


> BTW. What about the famous Terespol? Have they replaced it with Minsk, Kiev or Moscow?


Terespol is not so small as Jędrzychowice or Olszyna. So signposting it has, at least, some sense...

And the law says that the name of the border crossing should be indicated on the signage. So Terespol will be also present unless they change it.

But it doesn't change the fact that indicating a city/town behind the border is also recommended (although not obligatory) in our legislation.

And that the names of the border towns/villages on the borders with Germany, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Lithuania should not be indicated as there are no more border crossings (in the meaning of checkpoints) there.


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## eeee.

What's the law at pedestrian crossings in Poland? In the last days I was driving in some Polish cities - when I stopped for pedestrians sometimes the car behind me overtook me and almost run the pedestrians over. I was a bit shocked.

Or just no driving culture at all and I was right?


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## Kpc21

It's illegal what he did.

The law is such that you are obliged to give way to the pedestrian which is already on the crossing and you are obliged to slow down (which very few drivers usually do) and be careful before the pedestrian crossing. On the other hand, for the pedestrian it's forbidden to enter in front of a directly approaching vehicle.

You don't have to give way to a pedestrian waiting before the crossing. Unless you are turning left or right at an intersection - then you have to give way to the pedestrians even if there is no pedestrian crossing.

It's, of course, forbidden to overtake before and on a pedestrian crossing as well as to drive next to the driver who stopped before a pedestrian crossing to give way to a pedestrian.

But many drivers don't follow this rule.

Many Polish drivers lack the driving culture. Interestingly, they often magically gain it after crossing the German border and lose it back while returning to Poland  But it's anyway much better than the culture of drivers in many countries in Southern Europe, not to mention Middle East or Africa.


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## Janek0

Kpc21 said:


> Unless you are turning left or right at an intersection - then you have to give way to the pedestrians even if there is no pedestrian crossing.


Unless? Didn't you want to write: If you are turning...


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## Kpc21

This "unless" referred to what was before it 

This "Jedź bezpiecznie" ("Drive safely") is a very good TV program, but unfortunately, it's broadcast on TV only on a local channel in the Kraków region.

Its host is the director of the driving licence examination center in Kraków.


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## [email protected]

A construction agreement was signed a couple of days ago for yet another section of the S7 Highway, this time between Kraków and Kielce. In February the whole section of the S7 between Kraków and Warsaw will be either under construction or in use. 

The S7 will connect Zakopane (north of the city) witl Kraków-Kielce-Radom-Warsaw-Gdańsk. 

The whole Highway should be in use by the end of 2021.

Link:
https://businessinsider.com.pl/wiadomosci/nowy-odcinek-drogi-ekspresowej-s7/bm62emf


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## ChrisZwolle

[email protected] said:


> The whole Highway should be in use by the end of 2021.


What about Płońsk - Warszawa? It's a dual carriageway but mostly not a droga ekspresowa.


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## nemesis666

[email protected] said:


> In February the whole section of the S7 between Kraków and Warsaw will be either under construction or in use.


You forgot about section "Szczepanowice - voivodeship border" (ca. 23 km) which is still on hold due to environmental issues.


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## toonczyk

ChrisZwolle said:


> What about Płońsk - Warszawa? It's a dual carriageway but mostly not a droga ekspresowa.


Section Płońsk - Czosnów will be upgraded to S standard, I think construction will start late next year at the earliest, more likely 2020.

Czosnów - Warszawa (interchange with S8) will not be built in this EU funding cycle. Environmental assessment should be ready by the end of this month but we're still years away from construction start. I'd be pleasantly surprised if this section was finished by 2025.


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## Vistula

One more from 1992 in Swiecko

20-30 hours of waiting on the border






and Poland Ukraine in Hrebenne ALSO 1992


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## roaddor

SRC_100 said:


> The target network of motorways in Poland. I think there is a good chance to build this network of motorways by 2030.


Great to see Poland is rapidly expanding its network. I guess there should be certain demand for S17 and S19 from Lublin to the border with Slovakia. What is the chance of constructing these expressways in the following decade?


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## SRC_100

^^
S19 b/n Lublin and Rzeszów should be ready till end of 20*21* (edit), b/n Rzeszów and border with Slovakia S19 is is on stage of preparation of some preliminary documentation (conceptual documentation), no body knows when thi part of S19 will be built, but seems that before 2030.

Current advancement








source


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## HarryMiller

roaddor said:


> Great to see Poland is rapidly expanding its network. I guess there should be certain demand for S17 and S19 from Lublin to the border with Slovakia. What is the chance of constructing these expressways in the following decade?


Both the roads are included in the plan of building prior to 2025.
By 2025 Poland will have over 6000 km which will be close to full length 7900 km, I think it will be in 2030s.
Schedule of network rising is set here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highw...d_expressways_in_Poland_(end_of_the_year)[11]


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## Kemo

SRC_100 said:


> The target network of motorways in Poland. I think there is a good chance to build this network of motorways by 2030.


No way. There are only 12 years left to 2030. Some of the roads are still at phase "0". 
And even if we had unlimited money it still would be hard to build all these roads simultaneously.


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## SRC_100

^^
Ok, there would be problem with some parts of S10, S16 and maybe S12 & S74, but still possible to make tender for 9-10 years.


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## Eulanthe

ChrisZwolle said:


> I don't think it justifies leaving a road in such an extremely poor condition. That's bad governance. Many DK-roads were renovated across Poland with similarly low traffic volumes.


It's not that bad right now. The right lane is in a dreadful state, but the left lane is good enough for 90-100km/h, sometimes more. Something has changed over the last couple of years, because it used to be that you could only crawl at 70km/h maximum along there in the left lane. Agreed, though, it would be better to just change it to 2+1 on the good carriageway. 

About the A8 Wrocław bypass - as I recall, the final decision on tolling was only made in 2010/1. The junctions are designed to accommodate toll booths (hence the stupid design of the junctions), though how the hell they expected tolls to work on the AOW with the amount of traffic that uses it is beyond me. 

And the motorway plan - there's no way that map will be complete by 2030. The next EU budget is going to be much worse in terms of cohesion funding for Poland, and with it being politically impossible to impose road taxes/vignettes, there's simply no money to fund construction out of our own pocket. 

The big problem for me is that there's seemingly zero interest in building the S8 south of Wrocław, yet the road is becoming worse and worse every year.


----------



## ukraroad

What is said above is true, and, moreover, it seems there is no interest of the government or even voivoderships to build e.g. S10 (S16 or S8 south of Wrocław either). As yet only the southern Toruń bypass is built, while the situation on the road deteriorates as congestion increases between the two cities (Toruń has ca. 200,000, Bydgoszcz has 350,000 inhabitants). Moreover, the theoretical (since nothing like DŚU (environmental permit) is to be issued in the nearest future) road between Toruń and Warsaw, as shown on the map, looks lame, because it actually doubles A1 from Toruń up to Włocławek, while they could have planned the S10 from Płońsk (S7), via Płock, to be merged somewhere near Włocławek into A1, and then go on with it from Toruń to Bydgoszcz. There is no need to construct a road parallel to A1 there, and it will cost taxpayers' money.

Therefore, some improvements have to be done yet to the scheme in order to make it work very well. 

The good thing is, the Polish motorway/expressway system is being built in a very good pace, which Romania, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Czechia or even Hungary may only envy. If only that pace could be kept until at least 2024...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I wonder what the Czech perception of the Polish motorway progress is. Czechia had an ambitious plan for motorways, yet since 2010 they only opened 18 kilometers per year on average. What was supposed to be a catch-up game after EU accession turns out in a process that will last decades. Remember D35 / R35? It was originally said to be completed before D1 had to be renovated. Right now D1 is being renovated and virtually no new part of D35 has been built.


----------



## sotonsi

I'm not sure Czechia had access to amount of EU funds they thought they would get post-accession.


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## ukraroad

sotonsi said:


> I'm not sure Czechia had access to amount of EU funds they thought they would get post-accession.


Czechia in 2004 was way richer than Poland. That is perhaps the reason...

I don't know the Czech reality, but data (happiness charts, GDP/GNI/other macro- and even microeconomical data) suggest Czechia was better off then and even now.

Perhaps the thing is that either the other countries that accessed EU in 2004 have either been giving too little money for the road infrastructure or have been spending it in an ineffective way or that Poland is given too much money that otherwise could have been spent on other important projects in, say, Bulgaria or Romania, which have definitely not been doing that well in the 1990s and 2000s.

Also the mentality of Poles is such that owning a car is still thought of as prestigious, on a subconscious level. A lot of people in Poland, when it comes to buying luxurious items, are still living in the Communist reality with hourly queues near the shops and with other shops where few could buy anything because of _złoty dewizowy_ cheques that were not accessible to everybody. Now that Poles have money, they buy immense amount of cars they couldn't have afforded in 1980s and 1990s (more than they do in e.g. Czechia, where the tendencies to look posh aren't that expressed), hence the urgent need to build more roads. It seems that the European Commission has understood it very well and that is why they have given a lot of money. 

Unfortunately if it goes on and on in such a manner, Poland will possibly get cities dug up completely in road construction (so that the city could cope with a constantly increasing amount of traffic), and that will be a disaster both for the landscape beauty and the drivers that will return into the queues of 1980s in order to... get from one city neighbourhood to another. It is already the case for Warsaw and it will be for Kraków as well, in a while.

BTW, I have found a link about a possible construction of S75 from A4 to Nowy Sącz. Even though the article is old (from 2013), plans still exist for the expressway and I definitely remember that the expressway was one of the promises of the (now) ruling party back into parliamentary elections in 2015.
Any news about it?
http://www.gazetakrakowska.pl/artykul/805770,nowy-sacz-i-gorlice-rywalizuja-o-budowe-drog-ekspresowych,id,t.html
There is a page for it, dk75.pl, but I've found nothing interesting there.


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## vanya7

^^ Poland has so far been receiving roughly the same amount of EU funds as Czechia on a per capita basis or as a % of GDP, see e.g. here (p. 10): https://assets.kpmg.com/content/dam/kpmg/pdf/2016/06/EU-Funds-in-Central-and-Eastern-Europe.pdf


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## rakcancer

If you check Czech forum from time to time you will find out that there are complains about bureaucracy, long lasting or cancelled tenders, inability of efficient work of similar to Polish GDDKiA body and some kind of lack of governmental support for wide road construction as it is in Poland. Some Czech forumers are really frustrated with that.
As vanya7 wrote amount of EU funds per capita is similar in both countries so this doesn't matter.


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## Kemo

Eulanthe said:


> The big problem for me is that there's seemingly zero interest in building the S8 south of Wrocław, yet the road is becoming worse and worse every year.


Wrong.
It is currently in design phase (though not officially as "S")

Website: http://dk8.pl/


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## Kpc21

rakcancer said:


> bureaucracy, long lasting or cancelled tenders, inability of efficient work


Same as in Poland


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## ufonut

"Genius" Czech crew working on S8 between Warszawa and Bialystok poured incorrect concrete type (mixed up proper layering of different material) and had to rip it all up after GDDKiA mobile labs showed up and tested the whole thing.


----------



## Vistula

Well, sith happens. No one is perfect.




ukraroad said:


> C
> BTW, I have found a link about a possible construction of S75 from A4 to Nowy Sącz. Even though the article is old (from 2013), plans still exist for the expressway and I definitely remember that the expressway was one of the promises of the (now) ruling party back into parliamentary elections in 2015.
> Any news about it?
> http://www.gazetakrakowska.pl/artykul/805770,nowy-sacz-i-gorlice-rywalizuja-o-budowe-drog-ekspresowych,id,t.html
> There is a page for it, dk75.pl, but I've found nothing interesting there.


It was posted page or 2 ago. There are currenlty 2 varaints of this road. So now there are consultations and paperwork probably.

It won't have polish expressway standard but it will be 2x2 all the way (around 50km)


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## metacatfry

ChrisZwolle said:


> I wonder what the Czech perception of the Polish motorway progress is. Czechia had an ambitious plan for motorways, yet since 2010 they only opened 18 kilometers per year on average. What was supposed to be a catch-up game after EU accession turns out in a process that will last decades. Remember D35 / R35? It was originally said to be completed before D1 had to be renovated. Right now D1 is being renovated and virtually no new part of D35 has been built.


The rough numbers from the last ten years are as follows:

Poland, 2008-2018: 2500 km built, or about 6,25 cm of road for every Pole.
Czechia, 2008-2018: 250 km built, or about 2½ cm for every Czech.
Since EU funding per person is similar, the difference has to be down to politics, bureaucracy, administration or similar.


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## Trupman

metacatfry said:


> Czechia, 2008-2018: 250 km built, or about 2½ cm for every Czech.


Actually 210 km, if you don't count the length of the modernization of D1 between Prague and Brno. The worst are the last 3 years - only 23.8 km was opened (half of it thanks to impossibly delayed construction of D8).


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## metacatfry

^^^You're right. Also, I think it's silly to talk about cm per person so instead let's use km per million citizens:
Poland, 2008-2018: 62½ km per 1 million citizens built.
Czechia, 2008-2018: 19,8 km per 1 million citizens built.


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## Kemo

Czech motorway network was relatively better developed in 2008 than Polish motorway network, wasn't it?
Because in 2007 Polish motorway "network" was pathetic. It can be seen here: http://www.martins99.za.pl/npd.swf
Maybe the needs for road construction are simply smaller in Czechia.


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## ChrisZwolle

Kemo said:


> Maybe the needs for road construction are simply smaller in Czechia.


According to ceskedalnice.cz the planned motorway network in Czechia is approximately 2000 kilometers. That is some 750 kilometers still to be constructed, which at current pace of 18 km/year, wouldn't be completed until 2060.


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## metacatfry

Difficult to say what the needs are. Currently Poland still has less than Czechia, at 88 km per 1 mill citizens, against Czechias 118 km per 1 mill citizens. If trends continue in a similar manner to the last 10 years, Poland will overtake Czechia on a per capita basis in 2024.

Method: Just a linear extrapolation from 2008-2018, with Poland going from 1000 to 3500 and Czechia going from 1040 to 1250. Population sizes don't change enough to matter for this calculation, so are assumed to stay at 40 mill and 10,5 mill respectively.


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## HarryMiller

Czechia (then Czechoslovakia) overtook Poland in communist times, most of motorways were built in 70s and 80s. In Poland there was in early 1970s built 300 km track from Warsaw to Katowice called "Gierkówka" from the Edward Gierek, president of Poland in 1970s, two-carriageway, but with no collision-free intersections, so it couldn't be called motorway (this road is being today reconstructed into motorway). Economical crisis in later years caused stopping of construction of new motorways - till late 90s there were only a few short (20-50 km) sections in a whole Poland (two others built by Nazi Germany, which were in fatal conditition). Situation in Poland changed in 2000s, on a huge scale in 2010s.


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## metacatfry

As far as I know, in modern times there has never been a period where Poland had better infrastructure than Czech republic/Czechoslovakia. But on certain metrics like number of km/capita that will likely change within the next 6-8 years.


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## HarryMiller

^^In 1945-1970 Poland had two sections built by Germans near Szczecin (20 km) and Wrocław (90 km) because of border change after WW2, Czechoslovakia had none.
But in late 1930s Poland tried to built first motorway (one-carriageway) near Grudziądz (20 km), it had to be part of Gdynia-Warsaw-Lwów-Romania motorway, outbreak of war halted the plans (today there is secondary road number 214).


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## metacatfry

well alright. It seems like fortunes ebb and flow. Perhaps in 10 years time the tables will be reversed. It's always difficult to foretell, especially about the future.


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## Eulanthe

ChrisZwolle said:


> According to ceskedalnice.cz the planned motorway network in Czechia is approximately 2000 kilometers. That is some 750 kilometers still to be constructed, which at current pace of 18 km/year, wouldn't be completed until 2060.


The crazy thing is that the Czechs don't seem capable of even building small sections that would make a huge difference. For instance, the D52 to the Austrian border - it's not a long piece of road, it's nothing particularly difficult and it would complete the motorway link from Brno to Vienna, yet they just don't seem to have the ability to progress the project at all. 

Then there's stuff like the D11 towards the Polish border - although in fairness, the Polish side is also ignoring the obvious and desperate need for the S35 / S5 to connect the S3 and A4.


----------



## geogregor

Kemo said:


> Czech motorway network was relatively better developed in 2008 than Polish motorway network, wasn't it?
> Because in 2007 Polish motorway "network" was pathetic. It can be seen here: http://www.martins99.za.pl/npd.swf
> Maybe the needs for road construction are simply smaller in Czechia.


To some degree it is true. Czech republic has much smaller landmass and more concentrated population.

But they still need quite few stretches of motorways to complete their network.

I think the big difference is legal and planning system. Poland improved it couple of years ago, just in time before the big EU funding started flowing. It was a smart move.

Czechs are trying to do it now but they lost a few years.


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## Trupman

If the difference was the planning system then explain me how it was possible to build the long stretches of D1 and D11 in 2000's or D5 and D8 in 90's. 
The planning system is not getting better, it's getting mostly screwed with some minor attemps of improving.

Recent news: the tenders for 2 stretches of D35 near Hradec Kralove are already in the investigation of the antimonopoly office. ŘSD didn't accept the lowest price offers for some minor errors.


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## tunnel owl

Trupman said:


> If the difference was the planning system then explain me how it was possible to build the long stretches of D1 and D11 in 2000's or D5 and D8 in 90's.


I guess it´s often just the political will. There are government-periods where motorway-extension is seen not that important, no matter what is telled officially. If there is personal in politics, making motorway-construction a matter of priority it works. Looking back it was a political process starting in Poland in the 1990s and coming to it´s hightime in the 2010s.

18 km per year seem not that much. On the other hand Germany, with 10 times more population, for a long time opened 100 km motorway or even less when the network with it´s basic routes was done.


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## ufonut

Weighting 180 tonnes a Polish defensive bunker from 1939 was dug and moved away (34 meters on rails) from its current spot. The move needed to happen to make way for S5 expressway. 

Instead of destroying this bunker (which would have been much cheaper and taken a lot less time) much care and money was spent on saving it. 

Kudos to everyone involved. It's not the first time either, on A1 GDDKiA also worked with historians and local authorities to move and save a big bunker.


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## ChrisZwolle

tunnel owl said:


> On the other hand Germany, with 10 times more population, for a long time opened 100 km motorway or even less when the network with it´s basic routes was done.


Merkel has been by far the worst chancellor for Autobahn construction. She assumed office in 2005, the number of new projects dropped off and as a result, the amount of new Autobahn openings dropped significantly after 2009. Autobahn openings between 2005 and 2009 were largely the result of earlier governments.


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## tunnel owl

ChrisZwolle said:


> Merkel has been by far the worst chancellor for Autobahn construction.


Yes, and even worser, spending money for railway-construction is also low compared to other european countries. So it´s not a matter of ideology, besides that her politics of creating a "schwarze Null" resulted in less investments. Now tables turn and they talk about huge investments in infrastructure and Merkel is still in service but already very weak. Planning processes are not worser in Germany and money is not the problem. It was only the matter, what Merkels administration supposed to be think about being important. But to be fair: Widening and reconstruction of existing motorways is not included in your statistics. It´s simply more important. Probably opening more than 100 km per year will not happen in Germany anymore.

The new czech administration won the election with the promise of huge investments in motorway and railway-investments. In both cases we will see what happen. Back to Poland, the investment depend on EU-money. Brexit in 2019 willl have strong effects on EU-finances. No one really knows what will happen, but it will be not more money to spend I guess.


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## metacatfry

The polish governments tax take has grown quite a bit the last decade, so hopefully that extra internal income is spent on transport investments.


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## UPR20

Also UK will be obliged to pay up until end of 2021.


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## Ronnie87

UPR20 said:


> Also UK will be obliged to pay up until end of 2021.


I would not bet my bottom dollar on that.

Theresa May says UK will only pay Brexit bill in full if it gets trade deal with the EU

"Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed."


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## Kpc21

The road payments in Poland:










For those who don't know, 1 gr = 0,01 zł (PLN) = ~0,0023 EUR.

Green - free of charge (light - A, dark - S)
Sand - toll, state ones
Light brown - toll, PPP, fares decided by the state
Dark brown - toll, PPP, fares decided by the contractor

Red digits - concession expiry date

From: https://twitter.com/RegioPoland/status/966395039403380736

The fares vary quite a lot. And the A2 around Poznań has become so expensive that many drivers decide to use the alternative roads (or the S8 and the A4 if going westwards from Poland) because driving on the A2 is not worth spending so much.


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## ChrisZwolle

49 groszy per km is approximately € 0.12 per kilometer. Which is fairly expensive, but comparable to France or Spain. 

The difference can be explained to an extent. A private concession has to pay for construction, financing and maintenance. A government toll road only pays for construction and/or maintenance. Which seems like a small difference, but in the long run the financing cost is quite substantial, especially compared to A4 which likely only has to recover its maintenance cost, since it was built many years before they implemented tolls. Thus, the toll rate on publicly operated toll roads don't reflect the real cost like those of private concessions.


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## HarryMiller

^^But not comparable to French or Spanish average wages 

Part of A2 Świecko-Konin belongs to company Autostrada Wielkopolska S.A., which head was Jan Kulczyk, the richest Pole for many years (he died last year).
Contest of private toll roads as this and A4 Katowice-Kraków were given by Emil Wąsacz, minister of treasure in AWS (today combined PO+PiS) in 2000. Now he is head of Stalexport, which owns this part of A4.


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## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> A mid-2020 completion for the Ursynów section seems very optimistic to me. Urban tunnel projects tend to be complex, even with the right-of-way having been preserved for this tunnel. Tunnel system testing alone may take over half a year.


On top of that the pace of the projects seemed to recently slowed down in Poland. More and more contracts have delays. 

It might be caused by the sheer amount of projects happening in the country at the same tame. The construction industry is stretched to its limits, also because house building is booming too. There simple isn't enough subcontractors and suppliers to do all the works, especially at the prices offered by the main contractors who themselves often bidded aggressively a few years ago when prices of everything were lower. Now some of them have problem.


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## Kanadzie

Any real reason for a tunnel as opposed to simple trench? What will be on top?


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## MichiH

geogregor said:


> There simple isn't enough subcontractors and suppliers to do all the works, especially at the prices offered by the main contractors who themselves often bidded aggressively a few years ago when prices of everything were lower. Now some of them have problem.


I think Poland needs cheaper subcontractors from the east


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## ChrisZwolle

Buy American. It's possible if you go east far enough.


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## db84

Kanadzie said:


> Any real reason for a tunnel as opposed to simple trench? What will be on top?


A park, perhaps.

The reason for this tunnel is that the local residents were protesting against such a large road just outside their houses, even though the lot for the road was reserved much earlier than the houses were built.


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## rakcancer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Buy American. It's possible if you go east far enough.


US has lowest unemployment in decades. Construction industry here is booming too...


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## SRC_100

Bypass of Inowrocław - stage one of two - along DK15/25
2x2 road with grade-separated junctions. Speed limit: 100 km/h


Darole said:


>


All credits to @Darole


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## Kemo

A design & build contract has been signed for the first section of *S6 E28* motorway going east from Tricity. Length: 23 km, cost: 817 mln PLN, completion date: 2021.










Visualisation


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## Kemo

Meanwhile, near the opposite end of S6, progress is very good and this section (Goleniów - Nowogard) may even be finished ahead of schedule (which is April 2019).

Photos by Jacyk:

Direction Goleniów (Szczecin)









Direction Nowogard (Gdańsk)



























Existing DK6 to the right









Junction Kikorze


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## Kemo

Unfortunately, progress on the next section (Nowogard-Płoty) is not that good, and the deadline is only one month later.

Again, photos by Jacyk.

Junction Nowogard-East, existing S6 Nowogard bypass









Temporary end of S6, direction Gdańsk













































Untouched section...


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## sponge_bob

Bloke from an engineering consultancy I know says that he now advises consortia pricing up jobs in Poland not to bother applying for contracts west of the A1 line, or near Warsaw, as workers are too hard to get in the west of Poland nowadays and you might find your profit margin gone at the end if you pay extra to retain them. Some machinery operatives have seemingly seen their salaries increase by 50% in the last 3 years in some areas. 

He also said that the government should cut consortia on existing contracts some slack on finishing dates in the western half and near Warsaw where unemployment is very low nowadays or else they run the risk of chasing some contractors clean out of Poland for ever. 

He also said that one consortium conducted interviews for jobs as far away as Portugal this winter but that the Portugese will only work during the warmer 6 months of the year and that it is inefficient to have plant sitting around doing nothing for the other 6 months.


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## geogregor

sponge_bob said:


> He also said that the government should cut consortia on existing contracts some slack on finishing dates in the western half and near Warsaw where unemployment is very low nowadays or else they run the risk of chasing some contractors clean out of Poland for ever.


This might be actually happening. Recently there are quite a few delayed contracts and the road authority doesn't seem to penalize the contractors too heavily (so far). Some Polish forumers are livid because of that perceived inaction but maybe GDDKiA realized that if they kick the current contractors out and retender the contracts they will have to pay way more, not to mention that the new tendering process would take time too.


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## sponge_bob

I think from what he said that contracts in the west will continue to issue but at a slower pace and will be a distance from each other to stop contractors cannabilising the workforce from another contract 50km away. The EU will apply an N+3 rule so funds marked for 2020 can be paid over as late as 3 years later if a contract is delayed.

For Poland this is not such an issue because things ran to plan from 2014 to 2016 and there is not (yet) a big issue with delays, overall. Therefore the flow of EU funds was broadly on target 2014-2017 but keeping on schedule from now on will be difficult save that there are 3 years to make the schedule up.


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## Kemo

Construction permit was issued for a section of *S17* motorway between Warsaw and Lublin.

S17: Warsaw-Lubelska (S2) – Ostrów 15.2km (March 2018 to June 2019) – project – map

One more section remains - bypass of Kołbiel.


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## rakcancer

sponge_bob said:


> ... Portugese will only work during the warmer 6 months of the year...


:lol:


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## Nowax

S2 Warsaw - southern bypass



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## Uppsala

This is a closed bridge in Lisowo. This is a part of the "Berlinka motorway" from Berlin to Kaliningrad. This could be a part of A6 but its not.

But is it any hope they could just open this for traffic? It looks like they repair it sometimes. So is it possible the are going to open a part from Lisowo and more east one day? Maybe not like a motorway, but just like a road on that place where Berlinka was supposed to go?


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## Kanadzie

even would look nice to set it as a trumpet interchange from existing Berlinka to the west and DK20...

speaking of which i thought it interesting: http://www.antigoconstruction.com/p...hways-6235-highway-dw-142-e-o-szczecin-poland


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## Sponsor

It's been almost 12 years since the opening of once a biggest construction site in Europe. 
A2 Konin - Łódź (105 km). Here a famous flyover near Koło.


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## Chris80678

The rainbow bridge


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## Luki_SL

^^There is more rainbow bridges in Poland


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## Chris80678

Luki_SL said:


> There is more rainbow bridges in Poland




COOL


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## Nowax

S7 Lubien - Rabka section



Jasq said:


> http://lovekrakow.pl/galeria/estakady-w-gorskim-krajobrazie-tak-powstaje-nowa-zakopianka-zdjecia_3737.html


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## Nowax

Jasq said:


> http://lovekrakow.pl/galeria/estakady-w-gorskim-krajobrazie-tak-powstaje-nowa-zakopianka-zdjecia_3737.html


...


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## Uppsala

How is the S7 from Gdańsk to Elbląg look like now? I think this part shuld be quite finished now?


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## Kemo

^^
Nope.























































From the project website


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## Chris80678

Far from finished :lol: but patience my friends


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## Uppsala

^^
I thought they were going to open it at September or October this year. Is this part late?


----------



## GrimFadango

Update by IgorSel:










Direct link: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/hklowukui4pepx6/mapka-igorsel.png


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## Kemo

The pace of road costruction seems to have slowed down a bit lately... but every day brings us closer to new motorway openings.

*S11* near Kępno
Completed and waiting for opening. Possibly in late May/early June.


bimbasz said:


>


Bridge on *S7* in Ostróda. Opening postponed to late May or early June.


Henry Gale said:


>


*S12* Puławy bypass. Exact completion date is unknown, but it should be in Summer.



















*S3* Lubin - Legnica. Opening in late June or in July.



fliker said:


>




Meanwhile, first construction works have started on
A2: Warszawa Lubelska (S17) - Konik 5.6km (March 2018 to June 2020) – project – map


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## Chris80678

Yes it has been an extremely slow period of construction but winter has that effect 

There be a lot of openings in summer :lol:


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## Nowax

S7 Lubien - Rabka section



















































































http://www.s7-lubien-rabka.pl/foto/a-foto-lotnicze.html


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## Nowax

http://www.s7-lubien-rabka.pl/foto/b-foto-lotnicze.html


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## Nowax

http://www.s7-lubien-rabka.pl/foto/c-foto-lotnicze.html :cheers:


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## sponge_bob

Outline EU budget from 2021 proposes a drop in overall cohesion funding. As Greece and Poland and Bulgaria and Hungary will have _substantially_ completed their Major Roads by 2020 this is perhaps not a surprise.


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## Proterra

^^

I highly doubt the Lubień-Naprawa section will be ready this autumn... :-(


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## Luki_SL

^^That section will be delayed over a dozer months.


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## Chris80678

I'm amazed by the rate of progress on S3 between Nowa Sól and Legnica. Just look at these photos from Polish forum:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1654886&page=279

Things look promising for an opening soon after the scheduled end time of June


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## Kemo

^^
In fact, one short section will be opened this Monday.


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## Chris80678

Which section will open on Monday?


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## kdpy

Chris80678 said:


> Which section will open on Monday?


Legnica West (DK94) - Legnica South (A4)
this section is also bypass of Legnica
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/51.1885/16.1423


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## ChrisZwolle

11 destinations, 12 road numbers, 6 country code shields, 4 symbols... wow :lol:


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## Madrawski97

Where is that exactly?


----------



## Kemo

^^
New southern bypass of Rzeszów, here: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/50.0157/21.9458

_________________________________

S3 near Legnica opened.



















Photos by *fiker*


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## Kpc21

ChrisZwolle said:


> 11 destinations, 12 road numbers, 6 country code shields, 4 symbols... wow :lol:


Including very informative Barwinek and Korczowa... instead of Kosice and Lviv. There are still some signage designers in Poland, for whom the world ends where there is the national border


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## rakcancer

ChrisZwolle said:


> 11 destinations, 12 road numbers, 6 country code shields, 4 symbols... wow :lol:


In Poland you have to be very fast that includes reading signs while driving...


----------



## Madrawski97

In most countries the authorities use (average) speed cameras, speed bumps etc. But Poland has a much better solution: road signs that are so small and/or unclear that drivers slow down to figure out what to do next. 

But seriously, how can both the DK94 and A4 be marked as E40? Also, isn't that DK19 that leads to Barwinek (which should be replaced by Kosice like Kpc21 pointed out)? There is so much to change, but well... it's not going to happen anyway


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## Kpc21

In general the road signs (at least on normal roads, I don't mean motorways) in Poland are bigger than e.g. in Slovakia and Czech Republic. An advantage is also that they use small letters (and not capitals only) and that they include the road numbers of main and secondary roads (when I was StreetViewing through Slovenia, those numbers were missing there).

The signage is usually bad in cities. And in general, there are often problems with the consistency in the names of towns to which the signs show way. They happen to change at random places because someone else manages the next section of the road.

Of course, this sign is poor because it contains too much information. And... Barwinek Centrum? Really this is the way to the center of Barwinek? Well, it seems even to be true (although I supposed it isn't because such signs actually always show way to the border and not to the indicated town/village) but first of all, this is a village with 266 inhabitants, the whole village might be smaller than the center of, let's say, a city (actually, this: https://goo.gl/maps/CN9M9x2Asc72 seems to be the center of Barwinek - the fire station and a local shop, there is also a small church nearby; those seem to be the most important institutions in the village, or the only institutions), secondly, is indicating the direction to the CENTER of a 266 inhabitants village in a place which is far away by about 100 km really apropriate?

Actually, they probably meant the center of Rzeszów. But the sign read properly will mean that this is the direction to the center of Barwinek...

Double E40 seems to be an error


----------



## Majestic91

Also DK9 ends in Radom not in Warszawa


----------



## Madrawski97

I think that Kraków should be indicated only once, preferably "(A4)(E40) Kraków" and if they really wanted to include DK94, they should have given a closer destination like Dębica for example. Why? Because it is very logical to use a motorway for longer distances and a shorter route for shorter distances. I know it's a bigger issue, especially where motorways and alternative routes cross each other's path, but signs like this one: https://www.google.nl/maps/@50.0028...4!1sVzjiS2HInDAlmLHo7ScYaQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (both directions lead to Rzeszów) are confusing. The GDDKiA should think in solutions instead of blindly applying the (flawed) rules.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Chocolate on A2 near Słupca. The Dutch media reported this accident as being "near Warsaw".


----------



## salto_angel

^^ everything in Poland is near Warsaw. Don't you know about it?


----------



## Kpc21

Madrawski97 said:


> I think that Kraków should be indicated only once, preferably "(A4)(E40) Kraków" and if they really wanted to include DK94, they should have given a closer destination like Dębica for example. Why? Because it is very logical to use a motorway for longer distances and a shorter route for shorter distances.


They sometimes do so. I was recently driving DK92 from Konin to Poznań (actually I left it before Swarzędz, returning onto the expressways and motorways) and the signage indicated not Poznań but smaller towns.


----------



## belugin

Uppsala said:


> How is the S7 from Gdańsk to Elbląg look like now? I think this part shuld be quite finished now?


~7 km will be opened next month 
https://www.trojmiasto.pl/wiadomosci/W-czerwcu-pojedziemy-nowym-fragmentem-siodemki-n123592.html


----------



## Kemo

^^
Not opened, traffic will just be diverted to one of the newly constructed carriageways.

__________________


Construction permit was issued for the remaining section of *S17* motorway between A2 and S12 (route Warsaw - Lublin).

S17: Ostrów - Antoninek 8.0km (May 2018 to May 2019) – project – map

May 2019 is the official deadline, but it will surely be changed, because the bureaucratic process of issuing the construction permit took way longer than expected. But since this will be built by Strabag, I think that late 2019 or early 2020 is possible.


----------



## sponge_bob

Kemo said:


> ^^
> Not opened, traffic will just be diverted to one of the newly constructed carriageways..


Would the old carriageway be a 1930s Reichsautobahn in 'original' concrete????


----------



## ips_on

No, it used to be a classical bituminous 1x2 road. You can see it here: 
https://goo.gl/maps/X5kZnbXkeu12


----------



## Kemo

sponge_bob said:


> Would the old carriageway be a 1930s Reichsautobahn in 'original' concrete????


You probably confused DK7 with the nearby S22: https://www.google.pl/maps/@54.3835...4!1sQPqO5nFk5TYZ9HpQOyAWXQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

DK7 never was a part of Reichsautobahn and it was not in concrete.


----------



## Haveblue

Looks like you missed it guys: the las part of the new S17 between Lublin and Warsaw received the building permit. Having that, we appear to have all the missing parts of S17 under construction now. This is excluding the "Lubelska" junction which is still pending for the buildig permit. 

Our colleagues on the forum anticipate that majority of the newly build S17 will be ready by H2 2019 whereas the part closer to Warsaw (from Garwolin onwards) will be ready by H2 2020. 

Fingers crossed!


----------



## Sponsor

Kpc21 said:


> Of course, this sign is poor because it contains too much information. And... Barwinek Centrum?


Oh, come on. People are not stupid. The sign is placed inside Rzeszów city limit. It's quite obvious that it means its city centre. The direction might be confusing if "Centrum" was put next to Barwinek but it's a seperate line.

Good thing is that they brought in (o) symbol here. It's not common in Poland.










.......[9] [E371] Košice (SK)
<-...(o) CENTRUM
.......URZĄD CELNY

.......AIRPORT Rzeszów
.......[A4] [E40]..................->
.......[S19] 
.......[94] [9]

or Rzeszów CENTRUM so that @Kpc21 wouldn't get lost


----------



## rakcancer

Yes, where is that map?


----------



## Chris80678

According to this article things look promising for a July opening of S8 from Wyszków to Ostrów Maz - one step closer to continuous expressway from Warsaw to Białystok :cheers:

http://wzasiegu.pl/wyszkow/w-lipcu-pojedziemy-trasa-s8-z-wyszkowa-do-ostrowi-mazowieckiej/

Rough translation of key points in article above:

"In July we will take the S8 route from Wyszków to Ostrów Mazowiecka."

"The episode is divided into two contracts: Wyszków-Poręba and Poręba-Ostrów Mazowiecka."

"As a result - the date of delivery of this section of the route is expected for the middle of July." 

"These two sections and the route behind Ostrowia Mazowiecki towards Białystok are the last built fragments of the S8 expressway between Białystok and Warsaw. The connection of Białystok with the S8 route with highways in Poland and throughout Europe is likely to be built by the end of this year."

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:


----------



## Kemo

sponge_bob said:


> It would not surprise me if a plan to build a northern bypass of the Silesian Megacity (from west of Katowice to east of Krakow passing north of them) is proposed instead of widening the A4 between those cities.


I don't think so. A4 has space reservation for 2x3 and there are 4 alternative roads. Parallel S52 will also be not very far from A4.
In addition, the area north of A4 is very picturesque and is mostly a landscape park (protected area).









It is also heavily populated (villages everywhere), so designing any new road would be a pain... this is a major problem in the Lesser Poland (Małopolska) region.


________________________

On Monday, both carriageways of the missing bridge on *S7* in Ostróda were opened for traffic.


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

Kemo said:


> I don't think so. A4 has space reservation for 2x3 and there are 4 alternative roads. Parallel S52 will also be not very far from A4.
> In addition, the area north of A4 is very picturesque and is mostly a landscape park (protected area).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is also heavily populated (villages everywhere), so designing any new road would be a pain... this is a major problem in the Lesser Poland (Małopolska) region.


On the other hand, updgrade od DK94 between Silesia and Olkusz is an easy one. Olkusz - Cracow, well, that's challenging.


----------



## geogregor

metacatfry said:


> Yeah, we are approaching a point where the construction done in the 2010s are already starting to reach capacity in many places. The development of infrastructure has brought private development and investment from logistics and other industry, and wealth. Also lots of traffic. Now those places need more investment to keep the growth from being choked off.
> Meanwhile there remains many places where roads are still underdeveloped, that have waited while seeing the rest of the country develop.
> It will be a difficult political decision going forward on where to focus.


There will be some interesting choices to be made. Do we push 2x2 expressways to more and more parts of the country or do we invest in expanding the most trafficked corridors?

One has to remember that quite a lot f rural regions are depopulating while the top 5-10 urban areas are growing really fast. This trend is only going to accelerate as Polish demography worsen. There are hopes that immigration will plug the gaps but most immigrants will head to the biggest cities.

At the end of day there will be political decisions if we build, lets say, Bialystok - Lublin corridor or do we widen the A4.


----------



## sponge_bob

geogregor said:


> At the end of day there will be political decisions if we build, lets say, Bialystok - Lublin corridor or do we widen the A4.


A lot of roads in far Eastern Poland will come under the new "Military Cohesion" rules the EU will bring in from 2021 so they may be built for reasons other than population/economy. The S19 would be a perfect example of such a road.

If you have a land reservation in the middle, a wide median, then upgrading a 2+2 to a 3+3 is very cheap and fast unless some idiot messed up overbridges. However the S road network seems to be mainly narrow median and there is no land available.


----------



## Kemo

^^
Most of the roads constructed in the last ~10 years have space reservation for 3rd lane in the median. Even those that would never need it...


----------



## sponge_bob

Kemo said:


> ^^
> Most of the roads constructed in the last ~10 years have space reservation for 3rd lane in the median. Even those that would never need it...


In that case it will cost around 1/4 the cost of building that road from the ground up as 2+2 to widen it to 3+3, per km.


----------



## metacatfry

geogregor said:


> There will be some interesting choices to be made. Do we push 2x2 expressways to more and more parts of the country or do we invest in expanding the most trafficked corridors?
> 
> One has to remember that quite a lot f rural regions are depopulating while the top 5-10 urban areas are growing really fast. This trend is only going to accelerate as Polish demography worsen. There are hopes that immigration will plug the gaps but most immigrants will head to the biggest cities.
> 
> At the end of day there will be political decisions if we build, lets say, Bialystok - Lublin corridor or do we widen the A4.


In some cases it will not need to be an either or choice. building a new 2x2 can relieve the existing roads, as sponge_bob mentions. Perhaps a northern ring around the silesian conurbation is not practical, but other examples exist. 
I would like to see the Czechs expand their network so they can become more of a practical transit choice for hgv long distance traffic between Poland and southern Germany. That would relieve some traffic on the A4.


----------



## Proterra

rakcancer said:


> Yes, where is that map?


You can find it on website of SISKOM - and they're still keeping it current.

Why it disappeared from here, maybe Kemo can explain.


----------



## sponge_bob

metacatfry said:


> I would like to see the Czechs expand their network so they can become more of a practical transit choice for hgv long distance traffic between Poland and southern Germany. That would relieve some traffic on the A4.


The poor Czechs have the western europe disease, too many econutters clogging up the courts with challenges. 

I forgot to mention that while the EU will pay a high % of a new road they are unlikely to pay anything towards widening a road or maintaining roads. 

That will have to come from the Polish exchequer or else from tolling...or both. 

Maintenance should not be a big issue until the roads are around 15 years old as few Polish S/A roads are, but after 2025 it will be a more regular issue and will swallow up more of the overall road budget.


----------



## metacatfry

All true. I wonder if there will be a bias to build new roads rather than expanding existing ones, because the cost then will be subsidized by EU?


----------



## rakcancer

Proterra said:


> You can find it on website of SISKOM - and they're still keeping it current.
> 
> Why it disappeared from here, maybe Kemo can explain.


Thanks!
Not sure why it disappeared from this thread...


----------



## sponge_bob

metacatfry said:


> All true. I wonder if there will be a bias to build new roads rather than expanding existing ones, because the cost then will be subsidized by EU?


That could well happen between 2021 and 2027. 

I'd say that funding for new build roads from Europe will go through the floor after 2027 because the European Motorway network will largely be complete by then (apart from Romania  and new Balkan members if any. ) 

They'll change EU funding priorities to retrofits and decarbonisation funding after that as electric cars trucks and buses proliferate and charging infrastructures become vital everywhere. Lots of power cables required to deliver charging points, etc etc. 

I would certainly have a plan for a partial Warsaw ring ( S7 to S8N ) to get funded between 2021 and 2027 as it will always be on the Via Baltica corridor and Warsaw will inevitably clog up as it gets richer and the locals can suddenly afford to run 2 cars per household. I'd even say that S2 will be full of cars the day it opens fully.


----------



## Tonik1

ChrisZwolle said:


> Traffic volumes on that stretch essentially doubled between 2005 and 2010, with A4 near Wrocław approaching 50,000 vehicles per day.
> 
> 50,000 will not create a gridlock, but with a heavy flow of truck traffic, it means that flow is constantly interrupted by passing trucks and slowdowns, not exactly "cruise control country".
> 
> On the other side of the border, in Sachsen, there have been calls to expand A4 east of Dresden, with traffic volumes growing significantly.





That road is nightmare to drive. Constant trraffic jams. Dangerous situations. Right lane full of trucks left line slowing down constantly to 80-90km/h beacuse of overtaking trucks.

Easy for situations like that:





IMO 3 lanes is a must there.


Near Dresden is not much better.


----------



## keber

rakcancer said:


> Thanks!
> Not sure why it disappeared from this thread...


It is still there, just hidden. SSC forum does not support showing non-https images anymore. It can be still seen with older browsers.


----------



## metacatfry

sponge_bob said:


> That could well happen between 2021 and 2027.
> 
> I'd say that funding for new build roads from Europe will go through the floor after 2027 because the European Motorway network will largely be complete by then (apart from Romania  and new Balkan members if any. )
> 
> They'll change EU funding priorities to retrofits and decarbonisation funding after that as electric cars trucks and buses proliferate and charging infrastructures become vital everywhere. Lots of power cables required to deliver charging points, etc etc.
> 
> I would certainly have a plan for a partial Warsaw ring ( S7 to S8N ) to get funded between 2021 and 2027 as it will always be on the Via Baltica corridor and Warsaw will inevitably clog up as it gets richer and the locals can suddenly afford to run 2 cars per household. I'd even say that S2 will be full of cars the day it opens fully.


2027 sounds optimistic, but considering the last decades development, maybe not.

Hopefully S2 will not be completely swamped from day 1 but yeah, car use will only continue to grow strongly.


----------



## geogregor

sponge_bob said:


> A lot of roads in far Eastern Poland will come under the new "Military Cohesion" rules the EU will bring in from 2021 so they may be built for reasons other than population/economy. The S19 would be a perfect example of such a road.


Some roads might come into such category but I don't think many. Maybe S19 but how about S10, S11, S12 or S74? Roads which many Polish forumers would like to see. There are more examples like that.
Do Poland push for ever geographically expanding S-road network or should the country spend more on widening roads along the main corridors and around biggest metropolitan areas (and of course on public transport)? 



> If you have a land reservation in the middle, a wide median, then upgrading a 2+2 to a 3+3 is very cheap and fast unless some idiot messed up overbridges. However the S road network seems to be mainly narrow median and there is no land available.


The real problem is the A4. No reservation on the majority of the stretch which needs widening and most structures will have to be replaced too. On an already extremely busy route. I honestly don't know how much will it cost and how long it might take. It looks to me like nightmare project. And I would say that 220 km from Legnica to Gliwice alone will be more costly than a few hundreds km of brand new S-road in sparsely populated parts of the country.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A4 expansion could be financed as a toll project. A 220 kilometer expansion including replacement of nearly all structures would likely cost something north of € 3 billion.


----------



## metacatfry

^^Do you have some specific way of estimating that cost or is it based on other projects of similar size?


----------



## Tonik1

Another US army crash in Poland

Today on A18 (two trucks from colum crashed each other)






and few days ago






no fatalities


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I would estimate some € 10 - 15 million per kilometer for such a large reconstruction. This is what an expansion in mostly rural areas would typically cost. In most cases it includes a complete reconstruction of the existing lanes as well, due to the changes to geometry (cant/cross-slope and curvature).


----------



## sponge_bob

ChrisZwolle said:


> A4 expansion could be financed as a toll project. A 220 kilometer expansion including replacement of nearly all structures would likely cost something north of € 3 billion.


That would be painful and they may as well widen to 4+4 if they are spending that sort of cash.


----------



## Kemo

The prime minister recently said that widening of A4 is not a priority because there is no money for that.

BTW, today contracts have been signed for building a fence along A4 Wrocław - Krzyżowa. It will cost about 20 m PLN.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It is difficult to justify that kind of money for an expansion while at the same time there are large regions elsewhere with no motorways at all.

That's why tolls and private funding could be a solution. Nobody likes paying tolls but they like what toll roads provide. If the traffic numbers are there, a multi-billion expansion could be funded through tolls. 

Another option is the "Norwegian model" where a project is co-funded by the government but a certain proportion will be financed through tolls (typically 50-80%). This reduces the burden on the state coffers but also reduces the burden on the motorists.


----------



## Kemo

Well, they haven't even figured out how to organise the toll collecting system for < 3.5 t vehicles (after a decision has been made not to build any more toll gates with manual system).
So most motorways in Poland are toll-free.


----------



## Eulanthe

Tonik1 said:


> That road is nightmare to drive. Constant trraffic jams. Dangerous situations. Right lane full of trucks left line slowing down constantly to 80-90km/h beacuse of overtaking trucks.


I nearly got wiped out joining the motorway at Kostomłoty on Sunday. I pulled out into the right lane, saw that the left lane was empty and floored it to overtake the trucks that joined in front of me. Suddenly out of absolutely nowhere, I see a guy in a Mercedes coming behind me, so I dived out of the way - he didn't even make an attempt to slow down, and he must have been doing close to 200km/h there. The rest of the way into Wrocław, I was doing 140-150km/h and being overtaken constantly despite the limit being 110km/h. 

I'd say that between the S3 and Wrocław on the A4, it's vital to install average speed cameras now, along with cameras to enforce the ban on trucks using the left lane. I don't support average speed cameras everywhere, but in this one case, they should be used and set at 115km/h.

It's only going to get worse once the S3 is finished to Lubawka and trucks presumably get banned from the border crossing at Kudowa / Nachod in via of the S3 route, as trucks will probably be forced into going the A4/S3 route rather than DK35-S3. 

There really needs to be some more imaginative solutions here - for a start, why don't they significantly increase the tolls on the A4 during busy times for trucks and lower it at night? It would go a long way to ease the pain during daytime, 

Some other issues are just stupid - for instance, the toll plazas on the A4 in Wrocław and Gliwice simply aren't big enough.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ but why enforce so strictly a limit that is widely ignored? Surely the limit is wrong and not the people.

I wonder about reconstructing bridges. Many of them are extremely old, like the one with Russian graffiti from WWII. It's kind of amazing to me from a place where 40 year old overpasses fall down and these are 70+ years and still there...

for the toll plazas... they really need to get an automated system that isn't too expensive on tourists instead... stopping on a road to pay is ridiculous in 21 century...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There should be a free-flow tolling system that doesn't require a transponder. Norway has used that for years and now that nearly all EU countries have implemented the "Cross Border Enforcement" directive, getting toll bills paid by foreign motorists will be much easier.


----------



## Proterra

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ but why enforce so strictly a limit that is widely ignored? Surely the limit is wrong and not the people.


That limit isn't enforced at all. I often just cruise there at 140-160 and have never - ever - gotten a ticket. Only around Wrocław Południe and Bielany Wrocławskie do they do any attempt to enforce anything.

Also, when the S11 from Silesia is finished, I would reckon that traffic numbers on the A4 would decrease dramatically due to there being a second option between Silesia/Małopolska/Podkarpackie and Poznań/Szczecin/Berlin. The main problem would be the Kraków-Silesia stretch on the A4. I'd say that at this point, upgrading the road from Dąbrowa to Olkusz to expressway would be desirable together with continuing this expressway north around Skała to Michałowice where it can connect to the S7.


----------



## Kpc21

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ but why enforce so strictly a limit that is widely ignored? Surely the limit is wrong and not the people.


Why do you think it is wrong? That road doesn't even hold the current parameters for the expressways, it doesn't even have shoulders. So how can you keep the allowed speed there higher than on expressways?

They should degrade it to an expressway, in my opinion. But no politician will ever take such a decision that would make us have less motorways than we had...


----------



## Proterra

Kpc21 said:


> They should degrade it to an expressway, in my opinion. But no politician will ever take such a decision that would make us have less motorways than we had...


Well, the S3 can be signposted as A3 north of Świebodzin... I do agree that the A4 should be signed as S4 between Bolesławiec and Wrocław.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^What's wrong on A4 Boleslawiec - Krzywa? PS it doesn't mind A4 or S4 - the speed limit is 110km/h there (Krzywa - Wroclaw).


----------



## Kpc21

The problem is with the Wrocław-Krzywa (the former Reichsautobahn) section which has no emergency shoulder. So the 110 km/h speed limit there is understandable. What's more, it also has no fences against wild animals. And the lanes seem to be quite narrow as for a motorway, although it might be an illusion caused by the lack of shoulders.

Does the section west of Krzywa have a 110 km/h speed limit? I was there 2 years ago for the last time, so I can't remember but on Google Street View I can't see any. Meanwhile, east of Krzywa the speed limit is accompanied by warning signs exactly about the lack of the shoulder.


----------



## Proterra

Luki_SL said:


> ^^What's wrong on A4 Boleslawiec - Krzywa? PS it doesn't mind A4 or S4 - the speed limit is 110km/h there (Krzywa - Wroclaw).


My bad. I meant Krzyżowa with Bolesławiec. I personally kind of refer to the whole area as Bolesławiec. I just think the A4 Krzyżowa-Piętrzykowice should be signposted as S4 judging by how the road looks. I also think the S3 Świebodzin-Szczecin (_maybe with the exception of the bypasses of Międzyrzecz and Gorzów_) should be signposted as A3 (wasn't it originally planned as such?)


----------



## Luki_SL

^^S3 Szczecin - Legnica is designed as expressway road, not motorway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It looks better designed than many motorways I've seen in Scandinavia...


----------



## Luki_SL

^^Because 'S' classified roads in Poland could be motorways in many countries


----------



## Kpc21

Newly built S. There are some S (but also A) which are far from the current S-road parameters. I recently drove S11 south of Poznań. It's a very good road but definitely not having much to do with the current standards.


----------



## metacatfry

Poland has more cars per 1000 people than most other EU countries. No wonder the current network is overburdened.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^The Amber Motorway


----------



## Kpc21

The A2 (and its continuation in Germany to Berlin) is named the Freedom Motorway. Autostrada Wolności - Autobahn der Freiheit.

No-one really uses those names except for some politicians.

And the contractor managing the toll section of A1 in northern Poland has "Amber" in the company name (it's AmberOne if I remember well), it probably also comes from "Autostrada Bursztynowa".


----------



## salto_angel

^^ the name goes back to the old history and amber route https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber_Road - although it does not match it exactly.


----------



## Japinta

delete


----------



## ViaBaltic1

New section S8 expressway between the end of Ostrów Mazowiecka bypass and the border of the Masovian and Podlaskie Voivodships.


----------



## Kemo

*A1 E75 motorway*

A design & build contract has been signed for renovation of the oldest section of _Amber motorway_. This section: https://www.openstreetmap.org/direc...9.6037;51.3988,19.6312#map=11/51.4733/19.6209

It was constructed 30 years ago. It is still in a relatively good condition, compared to older sections of _Gierkówka_ to the south. But it is still deteriorating.
Now, the road will basically be built from scratch. The missing ramps on the interchange with S8 to Warsaw will be built.










_____________
*A2 E30 motorway*

Construction permit was issued for a section of A2 east of Warsaw.

A2: Konik - Choszczówka 9.0 km (August 2018 to June 2020) – project – map


----------



## Kemo

"Progress" on S3 near Polkowice.

April 2017









May 2018









Find the differences...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That is a Salini contract apperently?


----------



## mikoair

^^ Yes


----------



## Kemo

Design & build contract has been signed for a section of *S61 Via Baltica* motorway (Szczuczyn - Ełk, section 8 on the map)










23 km, cost 700 mln PLN, completion date - Mid 2021.

One more section (4 on the map) remains.


----------



## MichiH

I read that both S14 sections (Lodz western bypass) have been awarded to Budimex/Strabag and Eurovia (D&B).
And A2 widening south of Poznan was tendered. Will the entire section from S5/S11 in the west to S5 in the east being widened? One lot or more than one lot?


----------



## Kemo

MichiH said:


> I read that both S14 sections (Lodz western bypass) have been awarded to Budimex/Strabag and Eurovia (D&B).


8 months after opening of bids...

Lately it is common for companies to withdraw from the tender in such situation even if their bid was chosen (due to the increase of prices of material and workforce). Such situation happened on several sections of S61, on S7, S1 and several regional roads. Most recently, Astaldi resigned from building the tunnel to Świnoujście (connection between Uznam and Wolin islands).



> And A2 widening south of Poznan was tendered. Will the entire section from S5/S11 in the west to S5 in the east being widened? One lot or more than one lot?


Only the A2+S5+S11 section (Poznań Zachód - Poznań Krzesiny). One lot.


----------



## keber

Kemo said:


>


 I was always wondering (I've traveled there twice):


Why was the first section of S61 build connecting a wheat field in the middle of nothing and wheat field south of Suwalki? At that time it should be at least extended in direction of Elk to road 16 to make some sense and attract more transit traffic.


----------



## Kemo

keber said:


> Why was the first section of S61 build connecting a wheat field in the middle of nothing and wheat field south of Suwalki? At that time it should be at least extended in direction of Elk to road 16 to make some sense and attract more transit traffic.



This section was meant to serve as a bypass of Augustów.
Otiginally the planned route was different and the construction even started 11 years ago, but it was halted because of huge protests of ecologists. The route was supposed to cross the Rospuda Valley nature reserve. Even the EU commission intervened.



You can see the remnants of that construction here: https://www.google.pl/maps/@53.8644546,22.9085476,1284m/data=!3m1!1e3
https://www.google.pl/maps/@53.8316...4!1s-pkHcmUriVS0jZOZ1v7Seg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://www.google.pl/maps/@53.8558...4!1sK7opDLowr-JyXlIXKMIUSw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Unfinished, unused viaduct which was later demolished: https://www.google.pl/maps/@53.8647...4!1s6wF0I6tdhopBtR-V-SEbkg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


As a consequence, the planned route of Via Baltica was changed to the current one. Route of Augustów bypass was also changed, to use a part of future S61. Other parts of S61 were way behind in terms of documentation at that time, so only this section was built.


----------



## Kemo

A design & build contract has been signed for a section of *S19 Via Carpatia* motorway.










10.5 km, completion date - somewhere in 2022


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A18*

The entire southern carriageway of DK18 / A18 will be reconstructed and built to motorway standards. They will start a tender this year with completion in 2021-2023.

The project is divided in 5 segments:

* Olszyna - km 11,8 (11,2 km)
* km 11,8 - Żary (12,0 km)
* Żary - km 33,8 (9,9 km)
* km 33,8 - provincial border (16,2 km)
* provincial border - Golnice (21,5 km)

https://www.gov.pl/infrastruktura/poludniowa-jezdnia-a18-zostanie-przebudowana


----------



## ufonut

In the last couple of weeks there were several articles in the press shaming the government for not doing anything about A18 for so many years. They said that driving on the southern carrieageway was becoming dangerous and the upkeep was not really helping the further degradation.

Finally the government reacted. Better late than never.


----------



## rakcancer

ChrisZwolle said:


> The entire southern carriageway of DK18 / A18 will be reconstructed and built to motorway standards. They will start a tender this year with completion in 2021-2023.


Finally!
The longest road shame in Poland


----------



## Luki_SL

^^The longest stairs in Poland


----------



## sponge_bob

Luki_SL said:


> ^^The longest stairs in Poland


Is this the old Reichsautobahn with some asphalt added on top after 1945??

The Germans had not rebuilt all of their sections as recently as 2014, they might have since.


----------



## Kemo

^^
Yes.

__________

Before the new _Via Baltica_ will get completed, another improvement on the old E67 will be built.
This section of DK8 will be reconstructed. Existing intersections will be replaced with grade-separated junctions and the missing second carriageway will be built, thus completing the 2x2 comfortable connection between Warsaw and Białystok.

*DK8*: Porosły – Białystok-Szosa Ełcka 1.7km (August 2018 to June 2020) – project – map 

Link to the scheme: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/k...k-W4gZj00TMnRxG4GjodnP2CLi-9mfd=w4000-no?.png


----------



## [email protected]

Holy smokes! Must say the last couple of months a lot of new highway construction agreements have been signed. There was a pause for a bit, but it's looking great now! Great to see Via Baltica as well as via Carpatia taking shape   

Go Poland


----------



## MichiH

August 10 version of "Highway Map": http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/eng.html

There is no build tender in progress* (yellow) but design + build tender procedures only (brown). Do Polish road authorities not wanna make design anymore or are there projects they are currently designing (which are also indicated blue on the map)?

*Except of one A4 i/c


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Having construction companies making the detailed design is often considered more efficient. They can more easily upscale the design team temporarily, which is more difficult with government employees, or contracting it out to a civil engineering company. In the Netherlands there is often a time saving when some design work is done simultaneously with early construction. With a traditional design, you have to finish the whole design before the tender even starts. 

Perhaps it also has to do with money, maybe they can recover the design cost through the CEF funding if it is part of the construction contract. Though the EU does often provides grants for "planning". In Western Europe, that is typically all the EU will fund (not construction).


----------



## MichiH

^^ Sure. But I've asked because I wanna know if there are more sections where construction works are close to begin (within next 2..3 years).


----------



## Kemo

MichiH said:


> August 10 version of "Highway Map": http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/eng.html
> 
> There is no build tender in progress* (yellow) but design + build tender procedures only (brown). Do Polish road authorities not wanna make design anymore or are there projects they are currently designing (which are also indicated blue on the map)?
> 
> *Except of one A4 i/c


There is one more yellow - second carriageway of S1.

I think the D&B mode was proven to be more efficient, so it has been consequently used for the last few years. Even for sections which had the design completed, they often make "optimise & build" tenders. And the motorways are slightly redesigned, but it takes almost the same amount of time if they were designed "from scratch".


Great majority of "blue" sections will probably be realized in D&B, but there are a few exceptions:

A18 has a completed design and construction permits. But again, it will probably get "optimised".
S5 near Ostróda is being designed.
S7 north of Kraków (the blue section) is being designed.

PS
D&B tenders are not brown on the map, they are orange 

__________________

PS2

Observant viewers may have noticed the date "VIII 2018" for S7 near Chęciny. This is because the section marked in blue is planned to be opened this month. :cheers: (10 months after schedule...)









(north is to the left)

*S7* with a view of the Castle in Chęciny, photo by *hecoxkielce*









*S7*: Kielce-South – south of Kielce-South 2.0km (June 2015 to Late 2018) – project – map
*S7*: south of Kielce-South – north of Brzegi 7.8km (June 2015 to August 2018) – project – map
*S7*: north of Brzegi – Jedrzejow-North 11.7km (June 2015 to 2018?) – project – map


----------



## MichiH

Kemo said:


> Observant viewers may have noticed the date "VIII 2018" for S7 near Chęciny. This is because the section marked in blue is planned to be opened this month.


With a gap south of the interchange marked in red on the left? Edit: Ah, you've modified your post. I was right.

One might have seen that the 1km of 2nd c/w S12 section opened last week is still marked u/c


----------



## Kemo

MichiH said:


> One might have seen that the 1km of 2nd c/w S12 section opened last week is still marked u/c


This is the section which had the 2nd carriageway added:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/direc...5640;51.44233,21.97500#map=14/51.4331/21.9691

This one
https://www.openstreetmap.org/direc...2.0183;51.4425,21.9751#map=14/51.4426/22.0017
was built from scratch. One carriageway was opened last year (25 Oct, to be precise).


----------



## MichiH

^^ Sorry, I was wrong! I've zoomed-in now...


----------



## Kemo

Driving video from *S5* motorway Poznań Wrocław, section Rydzyna - Wrocław (the only existing section at the moment): 76 km

The section up to 2:03 was opened in November 2014.
The section up to 3:13 was opened in November 2017.
The section up to 5:03 was opened in December 2017.
The section from 5:03 was opened in August 2011.






It was Sunday noon, so there was little traffic.


----------



## Chris80678

33.3 km of S3 (from Nowa Sól to Kaźmierzów) may be opening at the end of September :banana:


http://wroclaw.tvp.pl/38540943/juz-niebawem-pojedziemy-droga-s3-z-kazmierzowa-do-nowej-soli


Photos from the project website shows it is practically ready with only minor works left to complete


http://www.s3-ns-kazmierzow.pl/galeria-1/2018-08/1000

http://www.s3-ns-kazmierzow.pl/galeria-2/2018-08/1000




June was the original planned opening of this section


----------



## Kemo

*S12* Puławy bypass will be opened next week. The section will connect the bridge on Wisła river opened 10 years ago with the S12/S17 interchange completed 5 years ago. It is 11 km long.






































Thus, the S12 motorway will be extended to 88 km: https://mapa.targeo.pl/Mapa_Polski,26,22.4667199,51.3222527?l=a56d317f7b2d2337


----------



## sponge_bob

Pretty much any new road that has a tender in place by end 2019 will be funded by the EU @ 85%. If a contract is not in place by mid 2020 I reckon that later projects go into the 2021-2027 funding window and there are some risks here for Poland. 

1. Co-Funding is to drop to 70% in Cohesion areas from 2021, not 85% if a project costs €5m a km today Poland has to find €0.75m of that today but this will rise to €1.5m per km. 
2. Co funding in the SW region of Poland will drop further, to around 50% (there is not a huge amount yet to start here but an expensive mountain section is planned near the Czech border.) 
3. Brussels may not accept the recently split capital city region and may apply the lesser co finance level to new roads that are still required within 80km of Warsaw. These should be moved up the list rapid in case, 
4. Cohesion funding overall is swerving sharply away from roads in 2021-2027 and more towards rural and gbit broadband and to other infrastructural requirements such as grids and electric vehicle infrastructure refits along existing roads and of course high speed railways which are very expensive per km built compared to roads. 

So if cohesion funding drops by 20% overall Cohesion funding for roads may drop by a hell of a lot more for projects that start onsite after 2020. It would be a good idea to bump project in the SW and around Warsaw up the list anyway and by the time some mountainous projects are in construction in the south only 70% co financing will be available so they will cost the state much more per km than the current generation under construction. 



Finally, Poland is notably richer and closer to full employment so state funds will be needed to wider existing roads in the 2020...rather than build new ones.


----------



## SRC_100

^^
The 85% co-financing of new road constraction in Poland by EU is ******* urban legend.
To be honest:
- not all ex-ways nor motorways are co-finansed by EU, not sure if most;
- average funding is between 40-60% just of cost of building, not mention of other costs (e.g. purchase of land, preparation of design and/or analyzes, etc.).

You write in a matter you have no idea about...

PS: co-financing of the modernization of railway lines is at a much higher level.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Suits on a motorway. That usually means only one thing.










S12 near Puławy


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*S12 Puławy*

S12 near Puławy - Kurów:









































































Photos by _GDDKiA_


----------



## salto_angel

ChrisZwolle said:


> Suits on a motorway. That usually means only one thing.


In case of Poland:

1. Elections

or 

2. Car accident with ruling party politicians.


----------



## Chris80678

Sooner S12 is extended west towards Radom the better bit I doubt construction of this part will start soon


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ They started the exit numbering at 1 at Puławy, so that suggests there won't be a westward extension soon...


----------



## Chris80678

Sadly not. Taking into account the three variants of the proposed route between Puławy and Radom


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## roaddor

Is it possible one day, except A1, A2 and A4, to appear or to be denoted other motorways in Poland like the following:

A6: Szczecin-Gdansk-Suwalki-Lithuania border along the coast of the Baltic Sea
A8: Czech border-Wroclaw-Lodz-Warsaw-Bialystok-Belarus border
A10: Szczecin-Torun-Warsaw-Lublin-Ukraine border

A3: Gdansk-Warsaw-Krakow-Slovakia border
A5: Lithuania border-Suwalki-Bialystok-Lublin-Rzeszow-Slovakia border
A7: Olsztyn-Bydgoszcz-Poznan-Wroclaw-Czech border
A9: Szczecin-Zielona Gora-Legnica-Czech border


----------



## SRC_100

^^
No, it isn`t possible. 

Besides, you proposed motorway numbers are assigned to the wrong routes.


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## Kpc21

It is possible if the politicians once decide to resign the expressways built in the last years to motorways, as they did in Czech Republic in 2015.

Of course, the numbers are wrong and they don't follow the actual routing of roads with those numbers. And while they also might get changed once, the likelihood of being it exactly as in the post above is quite low.


----------



## roaddor

What do you mean by wrong routes? These are routes independent from each other. The numbers are just an example, they can be set in one way or another. I made an assumption for the north-southbound motorways taking odd numbers and the east-westbound being denoted with even numbers. Another assumption was that these motorways were from border to border for the sake of simplicity.


----------



## SRC_100

^^
It would be a waste of money to change the letter S to the letter A on any signs. It does not make any sense.
And why do you ask? Do you like more letter A than S?


----------



## Kpc21

I mean that the numbers are different than the ones currently used.

Normally the newly built motorways and expressways in Poland take the numbers of the old routes and you did not follow that now.


----------



## Eulanthe

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ They started the exit numbering at 1 at Puławy, so that suggests there won't be a westward extension soon...


There's no way they'll do anything with it right now. It would only really help traffic from Radom or Kielce, neither of which is a booming metropolis. 

There are far more short links that are badly needed in Poland, not to mention the mess like the DK8 from Kłodzko to Wrocław.


----------



## roaddor

SRC_100 said:


> ^^
> It would be a waste of money to change the letter S to the letter A on any signs. It does not make any sense.
> And why do you ask? Do you like more letter A than S?


It is not the change of the letters itself, but the existence of more motorways. Poland is a big country in Europe to have just three motorways, even from one end to the other. That is my point. Motorways are with higher design speeds and also have emergency lanes which matters in the end of the day. Of course they are more expensive than expressways but not to such a big extent taking into account the relief in Poland. I guess there should be at least 7 motorways which will form the backbone of the country. Definitely Gdansk-Warsaw-Krakow should be a pure motorway.


----------



## SRC_100

^^
Seem to you see a problem where it does not exist, because expressways in Poland:
- most of expressways have the same design speed as the motorways;
- expressways have an emergency lanes;
- expressways are not necessarily cheaper than motorways, they may be more expensive because they have more junctions.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Expressways also have a 120 km/h speed limit, which is higher than motorways in some other European countries (Sweden, Norway, UK). 120 and 130 km/h are by far the most common speed limits in Europe, so the Polish expressway is not out of line there.


----------



## roaddor

SRC_100 said:


> ^^
> Seem to you see a problem where it does not exist, because expressways in Poland:
> - most of expressways have the same design speed as the motorways;
> - expressways have an emergency lanes;
> - expressways are not necessarily cheaper than motorways, they may be more expensive because they have more junctions.


Then what is the difference between your A snd S roads at all? And more importantly why do you need to build an expressway (Polish one) when you can build a motorway instead?


----------



## sponge_bob

A roads are designed for 130kph and S for 120kph.


----------



## toonczyk

roaddor said:


> Then what is the difference between your A snd S roads at all? And more importantly why do you need to build an expressway (Polish one) when you can build a motorway instead?


Technically the differences are very small and depend on "design speed", but usually A roads have 25cm wider lanes (3,75m vs 3,5m), emergency lane is wider (3m vs 2,5m), expressways have tighter turns (300m vs 200m radius), interchanges can be placed closer to each other on expressways.

A roads were supposed to be tolled, S to remain free (for cars), that's the main rationale for building one or the other. Which makes little sense when you think about it, but whatever.


----------



## Kpc21

Because politics.

Actually, yesterday or 2 days ago a poll in the Polish SSC section appeared, with a question about whether the Polish expressways should be resigned as motorways, and 2/3 of users voted that they should.

See here: https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1231013 (the thread is from 2010 because it got joined with an old one before just a few minutes).

What are the arguments for keeping them separate?

One reason is that the expressways and motorways are different in terms of technical parameters. Those differences are slight, especially with regard to the currently built expressways, they include things like the minimum distances between exits or the radii of curves. Also, supposedly, most motorways have the design speed of 120 km/h and most expressways of 100 km/h, but the design speed of 120 km/h is also sometimes used on expressways and the speed of 100 km/h on motorways.

Another reason is politics and the common thinking that motorways are usually toll roads and expressways are free of charge. Interestingly, there is no law that would make it so, but so it was thought out and so it is (although we also have now much motorways without tolls - because for a few years our government cannot decide what kind of toll system to introduce there after resigning from the one based on toll gates a few years ago). Supposedly, this was one of the main reasons why the bypass of Warsaw (S2) was built as an expressway even though it weirdly makes an "expressway" gap in the A2 motorway just in the capital city. Building expressways is better politically as people definitely prefer a road which is for them free of charge to drive on it.

It was said that once in the future the expressways will also be made toll roads, but it's just bad politically to introduce tolls on roads and it's difficult to think of a government that would do such a thing, it would be like shooting themselves in their head. Maybe it's possible when there will be a real need for that, a real lack of funds for keeping those roads in a good condition. But it's also not unlikely that the next, more populist government will cancel the fees introduced by their predecessors, as it was recently with increasing the retirement age (increased by PO, then decreased back by PiS). It's just guessing - but definitely such decision, to make the expressways toll roads, would be bad politically.

And making the expressways motorways could also be considered by the people (or presented so to them by the opposition) as a step to make them toll roads.

If I remember well, the current S8 road was originally intended to be the A8 motorway. I don't remember why they decided to build it as an expressway.

By the way - some section of the A4 - a *motorway* - miss emergency lane.

If such a reform happens - then it would be good to convert it down to an expressway.


----------



## roaddor

toonczyk said:


> Technically the differences are very small and depend on "design speed", but usually A roads have 25cm wider lanes (3,75m vs 3,5m), emergency lane is wider (3m vs 2,5m), expressways have tighter turns (300m vs 200m radius), interchanges can be placed closer to each other on expressways.
> 
> A roads were supposed to be tolled, S to remain free (for cars), that's the main rationale for building one or the other. Which makes little sense when you think about it, but whatever.


Alright, the width of the lanes is expected but this is negligible. And 10km/h difference in the speed is almost nothing. But then comes the point with the payment for the vehicles less than 3.5 tons. It means that some cities will be more favoured than others because you have two almost identical types of roads, however, one of them is paid and the other is not. For example, if you want to go from Poznan to Warsaw by car, you will pay toll. But if you want to go from Krakow to Warsaw, then you won't pay anything. It doesn't actually make any sense. You either pay toll on both roads or you don't pay at all. In the other case, you can use vignettes for the cars as a means of payment but for a certain period of time, like in Slovenia.

There is also a risk of losing light vehicle traffic on motorways because people will try where suitable to avoid the paid A-roads, when it is possible to drive on the unpaid S-roads with the same characteristics.

Moreover, how are then the S-roads maintained by the state if they are paid only by vehicles above 3.5 tons? And the length of these S-roads is supposed to be three times bigger than the that of the A-roads.


----------



## Kpc21

roaddor said:


> Moreover, how are then the S-roads maintained by the state if they are paid only by vehicles above 3.5 tons?


Normally, from taxes.

I agree that it's not really fair.

But the situation which we have now with really different prices for 1 km of drive on various motorways is also unfair. And we are forced to live with them at least until the moment when the concession contracts expire.


----------



## rakcancer

Eulanthe said:


> There's no way they'll do anything with it right now. It would only really help traffic from Radom or Kielce, neither of which is a booming metropolis.
> 
> There are far more short links that are badly needed in Poland, not to mention the mess like the DK8 from Kłodzko to Wrocław.


How it would that help with traffic between Radom and Kielce? 
It would definitely ease traffic between Lublin and Radom and in the future to Piotrkow Trybunalski and connect to A1...


----------



## rakcancer

Kpc21 said:


> Another reason is politics and the common thinking that motorways are usually toll roads and expressways are free of charge. Interestingly, there is no law that would make it so, but so it was thought out and so it is (although we also have now much motorways without tolls - because for a few years our government cannot decide what kind of toll system to introduce there after resigning from the one based on toll gates a few years ago). Supposedly, this was one of the main reasons why the bypass of Warsaw (S2) was built as an expressway even though it weirdly makes an "expressway" gap in the A2 motorway just in the capital city. Building expressways is better politically as people definitely prefer a road which is for them free of charge to drive on it.


No that wasn't the reason for S2 in Warsaw. At that time it was planned as A2 but it was just before beginning of road construction boom in Poland and the main reason was that people got brainwashed that expressway is not as bad for people living next to it as motorway is. I remember that endless discussion and complains of people of Ursynow district that they don't want to have motorway crossing their neighbourhood so to make them calm down government decided to "downgrade" it to S class. The only thing as I remember has changed except class of road was that tunnel under Plaskowickiej street. Originally it was planned as open cut road. 
If that stretch would stay as A it wouldn't be probably tolled anyway as all A bypasses of big cities in Poland are not: Wroclaw, Poznan, Lodz, Krakow, Katowice etc..


----------



## Kpc21

The A2 bypass of Łódź is tolled. The A1 bypass of Łódź was and still is planned to be tolled - they designed the junctions with the roads to the city in the trumpet style just because of the toll gates (which finally weren't built because the government resigned from building them deciding that gates are not a good toll collection system and they must find a better one - but it was too late to change the design of the junctions).


----------



## Sponsor

toonczyk said:


> (...)expressways have tighter turns (300m vs 200m radius)


300 meters radius? That is just damn tight even for other roads. 

This is a circa 250 meters radius curve. 
And it looks like this from driver's point of view.

The curves are in fact much smoother. 

A vs. S

4000 m.........2500 m (no cross fall)
≥3500 m.......≥2500 m (2-2,5%)
2500 m.........1800 m (3%)
1800 m.........1400 m (4%)
1400 m.........1000 m (5%)
1100 m.........800 m (6%)
≤900 m.........≤600 m (7%)

A - designed speed 120 km/h
S - designed speed 100 km/h (but as far as I understand S-road can also be at 120 km/h, but they are usually 100 km/h)

https://piib.org.pl/budownictwo-akt...lane-aktyprawne-180/3122-2017-04-02-11-19-20/
---> § 21


----------



## sponge_bob

roaddor said:


> Rudi, don't teach fishes how to swim. I said that expressways were different from motorways and wrote exactly why.


Rudi correctly pointed out that western countries (as an EG the UK, especially England, and also Austria) sometimes build 'stealth' motorways _by saying that they are not a motorway_ but then they build a motorway standard road anyway. This is because of entrenched ecomentalist lobbies (just look at the ecomental nonsense that accompanies every Czech road project nowadays  )


----------



## Dusha

roaddor said:


> Rudi, don't teach fishes how to swim. I said that expressways were different from motorways and wrote exactly why. That can also be seen quite well in the video. What examples are you talking about? Put a picture here of an A-road in Poland, afterwards put another one of a S-road below and then say what is a motorway and what looks like :nuts: an expressway.


Here you go. Please tell us where is A road and where is S. There's a tip anyway


----------



## roaddor

^^
I have a slightly different view on A & S roads.

This is A1 between Gdansk and Torun (paid section)

This is S7 between Warsaw and Krakow (nonpaid section)

It is up to the Poles what type of road will be charged and what will remain free, I understand that. My point was only that these two roads are much more alike in order to be determined as tolled ones or not.
By the way, Dusha/Soul (I should translate it for the non-slavic people here), when are you going to connect Kaliningrad and Olsztyn at least with a S-road? The Germans would have built an autobahn long time ago in the lands of the former Ostpreußen.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^The fuel prices are highier about 50 groszy/l on expressways and motorways than on the other roads.


----------



## Kpc21

Exactly, it's much better to exit the motorway/expressway and buy the fuel somewhere nearby.


----------



## Dusha

roaddor said:


> By the way, when are you going to connect Kaliningrad and Olsztyn at least with a S-road? The Germans would have built an autobahn long time ago in the lands of the former Ostpreußen.


You could find an answer here :
http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl
They are connected (from the border) via S22, S7, S51.
No further plans for now.

Or have you meant Russian part?
In Russia there are no plans to develop this direction. 

http://infrastruktura39.ru/activity/interactive_map.php


P. S. and, BTW, this is an 'expressway' as well
S22 - https://goo.gl/maps/ckTr8djqArK2


----------



## MichiH

^^ Please, don't start a political discussion here...


----------



## rpc08

The distinction A / S may be OK as they're roads that are just a little bit different, but for better understanding of a common driver S roads should be marked in blue as well. They are much closer to a motorway than to a regular road.


----------



## SRC_100

roaddor said:


> If a road is (...)





roaddor said:


> (...) There is also a clear difference between (...)





roaddor said:


> This is a sign of an automobile road(...).





roaddor said:


> (...)Emergency lanes (...) Expressways are (...)





roaddor said:


> A 2x2 road (...).





roaddor said:


> (...)





roaddor said:


> I have (...)


 bla, bla... bla... 

I am already pissed off reading this nonsense...


----------



## roaddor

^^
Who makes you read it? That is the truth, whether you like it or not.


----------



## and802

Dear roaddor 
I am just a observer here , but it looks like you ask questions here, received professional answers and you completely disagree with them. This is fine, you might have your own view , but if you feel like you know better why you ask questions here ?


----------



## Negjana

Good question......... but I'm sure he'll come up with a bunch of stupid excuses :bash:


----------



## roaddor

and802 said:


> Dear roaddor
> I am just a observer here , but it looks like you ask questions here, received professional answers and you completely disagree with them. This is fine, you might have your own view , but if you feel like you know better why you ask questions here ?


Is it forbidden to ask questions? I don't know what you call professional answers, the one with the many dots (...) above is everything but a professional response. I asked a very simple question about A and S roads in Poland and made a conclusion for myself. Straight to the point, you want to say that the capital of Poland Warsaw and the second biggest city Krakow (also a historical capital) should be connected with a non-paid highway? May be there is not so much traffic between the two cities and somehow it is not required to be a motorway and as a result pay tolls for driving on it :nuts:. Take a closer look at the links of my post ending with 04 on this page. They speak for themselves.
By the way, what is the EU contribution/share (in percentage) of A1, A2 and A4? They were also built with EU support, weren't they?


----------



## Luki_SL

10km of motorway S3 between Lubin North-Lubin South, in Poland opened today. 










https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/30401/S3-omija-Lubin



maestro_S3 said:


>


----------



## bzbox

Kpc21 said:


> Exactly, it's much better to exit the motorway/expressway and buy the fuel somewhere nearby.


Thanks, so I will exit D1 in Bohumin, drive to Chałupki and return to D1/A1.


----------



## Chris80678

Great news that Lubin S3 bypass is now open, however, when will Lubin Północ (North) interchange be fully finished and opened to traffic?


----------



## Kpc21

bzbox said:


> Thanks, so I will exit D1 in Bohumin, drive to Chałupki and return to D1/A1.


You may have a look here: http://www.cro.pl/ostatnia-stacja-benzynowa-w-pl-na-a1-lub-przy-a1-t41986-210.html - people discuss about what station to use near this border crossing.


----------



## Kemo

@*roaddor

*To sum up the discussion.Polish so-called expressways are actually motorways in every aspect except from their name and signage. They have better technical parameters than many "motorways" in other European countries. A and S roads are hard to distinguish in reality.
Yes, this division between A and S makes no sense. Neither does having the Poznań-Warsaw motorway tolled, and the Kraków - Warsaw motorway not. But this is how it works for now. Maybe it will be changed one day when the people in charge finally realize that it makes no sense.



roaddor said:


> By the way, what is the EU contribution/share (in percentage) of A1, A2 and A4? They were also built with EU support, weren't they?


More or less the same as for any other road built in this period.





Kpc21 said:


> The A2 bypass of Łódź is tolled.


Actually, A2 was not a bypass of Łódź until A1 got opened. Before A2 existed, the traffic on E30 route was directed through Krośniewice, not Łódź.




sponge_bob said:


> Motorways have wider running lanes and wider hard shoulders (mainly) and 130kph limits.


*140* kph




bzbox said:


> Thanks, so I will exit D1 in Bohumin, drive to Chałupki and return to D1/A1.


I don't think there's a need to do it. There is a station conveniently located here https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/49.94389/18.43019 and it should have "normal" prices.
Someone from our forum even got a discount here when he mentioned that he is a member of SSC


----------



## Kemo

Driving videos from the recently opened sections of motorways

*S12*





*S3 E65*


----------



## Kemo

*S3 E65*, section Jawor - Bolków. Almost completed.



kolar1 said:


>


----------



## Kemo

MichiH said:


> Many delays. Is Poland the new Germany?


Main reasons:
Too short, impossible deadlines (examples: S7 Zakopianka or DW669 in Białystok)
Delays in administrative procedures and expropriation (in D&B contracts) - so far, S5 and S17 suffer from this cause (new dates for S17 are unknown yet)
New construction companies (mainly from Italy), inexperienced on the Polish market 
Usual delays because of snow in winter and rain in summer :nuts:


----------



## sponge_bob

Kemo said:


> Main reasons:
> Too short, impossible deadlines (examples: S7 Zakopianka or DW669 in Białystok)


Last winter was an exceptionally long one all over Europe with blizzards even in March as far south as Rome. With D+B they should give 3 years for the build where the D is approved from September to March and 3.5 years for the build where the D is approved April to August given the extra difficulty in mobilising fully.

And give the Spanish and Italians 4 years because they are not used to the cold.


----------



## Kpc21

> Is Poland the new Germany?


Delays in Poland are as normal as they are in Germany.



sponge_bob said:


> Last winter was an exceptionally long one all over Europe with blizzards even in March as far south as Rome.


Not sure how it was in the rest of Europe, but I know that in Poland, the spring began exceptionally early this year.


----------



## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> *S3 E65*, section Jawor - Bolków. Almost completed.


Wow :banana:


----------



## Kemo

Design & build contract was signed for upgrading another section of _Gierkówka_ to motorway standard (*A1 E75*).

Gierkówka was constructed in the '70s as the most important highway in the country, since it is connecting the two largest agglomerations (Upper Silesia and Warsaw). It was designed as a motorway (2x2 lanes, high design speed, routed outside of built-up areas), but due to lack of funding, at-grade junctions were built instead of motorway interchanges.
After 40 years with no major renovations, the pavement is now in a very bad condition.
Now, the road will basically be built from scratch in the old corridor. It will be widened to 2x3 lanes and it will be built in concrete. 

Section D on the map.
Two more sections (B and C) to go.


----------



## Erson

roaddor said:


> Is it possible one day, except A1, A2 and A4, to appear or to be denoted other motorways in Poland like the following:
> 
> A6: Szczecin-Gdansk-Suwalki-Lithuania border along the coast of the Baltic Sea
> A8: Czech border-Wroclaw-Lodz-Warsaw-Bialystok-Belarus border
> A10: Szczecin-Torun-Warsaw-Lublin-Ukraine border
> 
> A3: Gdansk-Warsaw-Krakow-Slovakia border
> A5: Lithuania border-Suwalki-Bialystok-Lublin-Rzeszow-Slovakia border
> A7: Olsztyn-Bydgoszcz-Poznan-Wroclaw-Czech border
> A9: Szczecin-Zielona Gora-Legnica-Czech border


This is not possible because we rarely change the numbering of any roads (state  ) and these road numbers are good


----------



## Kpc21

The last quite a big change was kinda after 2000 when many roads got joined with each other or divided, also some former secondary (three-digit) roads got converted to national roads (although the secondary ones were also national roads before 1999 when the current division of the country into voivodeships was intoduced).

But whenever possible, the old numbers were maintained.

The previous change had to take place somehow in 1970s or early 1980s. This was the moment of introducing the current numbers. Before that, the numbers were totally different and for the roads being parts of international routes (E-roads and T-roads - it was also before the change of their numbers; those old numbers of E-roads are still in use in Nordic countries) only the international numbers were used.


----------



## Kanadzie

Indeed, Poland seems to change road numbers all the time.
It gives rise to the amusing situation of roads that are 100 years old and have numbers 20 years old :lol:


----------



## Kpc21

Well. South of Siewierz, down to the national borders, we have TWO National Roads 1. One is the western bypass of Silesian metropolitan area and goes first as S1 to Pyrzowice Airport, then as the A1 motorway to the border in Gorzyczki near Ostrava. The other one is the old road - eastern bypass of the metropolitan area, down to the border in Zwardoń. Partially as the S1 road, partially as a normal 1 road.

So we also... sometimes don't change numbers when it's actually needed.


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## db84

Kpc21 said:


> Not sure how it was in the rest of Europe, but I know that in Poland, the spring began exceptionally early this year.


Not really. You probably confused the fact that April had exceptionally hot summer-like weather. But March was a pain in the a**. On the first days of March the temperature was like -20°C in the morning. On 15th of March no building site restarted beacuse there was still snow. It was about a week later that the works were restarted.


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## Puritan

db84 said:


> Not really. You probably confused the fact that April had exceptionally hot summer-like weather. But March was a pain in the a**. On the first days of March the temperature was like -20°C in the morning. On 15th of March no building site restarted beacuse there was still snow. It was about a week later that the works were restarted.


That's true:

*March 2018: ( - 2, 45 C anomaly)*










*April 2018: hottest april since records began ( + 4,70 C anomaly)*


----------



## sponge_bob

One would have looked at _potential_ cold weather when planning too, Sweden had its coldest March in 70 years and as long as that sort of weather can move south it affects onsite mobilisation plans. With large pools of cold nearby I doubt anyone moved a pile of machinery onsite until late March....if they had any sense.  In a normal European winter you can mobilise in early March. 

https://www.thelocal.se/20180330/this-march-up-to-4-degrees-below-normal-smhi


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## Erkaesowiec

S12 - Puławy bypass, final works



miras said:


> ^^ po drugiej stronie posadzone są drzewa i krzewy, ale raczej nie w takim zagęszczeniu jakby miał być z tego las. Chociaż na węźle Kurów Zachód rośnie juz ładny zagajniczek, a część terenu to oddział Lasów Państwowych. Podobnie jest na północ od węzła Końskowola.
> 
> Na pewne pytania odpowiedzi brak :crazy2:
> *
> Fotorelacja 30 sierpnia 2018*
> 
> Zapowiadało się optymistycznie - brakujący krótki odcinek ścieżki rowerowej pokryty już asfaltem..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .. podobnie jest po drugiej stronie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Przed mostem na Kurówce jest już trochę gorzej - tu asfalt jest jedynie po lewej stronie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Identycznie jest po drugiej stronie mostu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Podobnie jest dalej - asfalt po lewej jest aż do wjazdu do kompleksu garaży
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tu kończy się szczęście rowerzystów, którzy jak widać muszą jeździć jezdnią
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dalej również brak asfaltu. Być może nie ukończony bruk uniemożliwia położenie asfaltu, bo walec uszkodziłby krawężniki
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> CDN..


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## Chris80678

Well, winter may arrive later this year so that could give Poland a chance to catch up with delayed construction, temperatures are set to be higher than normal in September / October / November


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## Grzegorz.Janoszka

Chris80678 said:


> Well, winter may arrive later this year so that could give Poland a chance to catch up with delayed construction, temperatures are set to be higher than normal in September / October / November



On the other hand storks have already left the country, 2-3 weeks earlier than usually. Some think it is a forecast for early and tough winter.


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## Erkaesowiec

One more time, a short ideo from Puławy bypass (Kurów Zachód - Puławy Zachód):


Toye said:


> Kurów - Puławy


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## Kemo

Not all recent projects are delayed, though 

*S61 E67* Suwałki bypass. The concrete pavement is almost completed on the whole length of the road.
There is a chance that the road will be opened in this year, before schedule.



Darole said:


> Dzień dobry nadrabiam duże zaległości i obiecany filmik z przelotu z dnia 03.08.2018


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## Rombi

Kemo said:


> Not all recent projects are delayed, though
> 
> Suwałki


Which is by the way considered to be the coldest region in Poland


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## Proterra

Rombi said:


> Which is by the way considered to be the coldest region in Poland


Well, kotlina Orawsko-nowotarski and Skalne Podhale are colder...


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## Kpc21

Suwałki are probably coldest regarding the "normal" heights above the sea level. Of course, it's colder in the mountains, but it's because of height.


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## Chris80678

Oh dear hno:

Well you never know, Salini might surprise us and improve their performance


----------



## Tonik1

Poland in now EU biggest transportation powerhouse overtaking Germany with 30,7% share in international transport.


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## Don Alessandro

In ten years, that's astonishing.

But I think that's also because many foreign companies, lease or buy trucks with polish license plates with focus on the costs.


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## LM69

Uppsala said:


> In Sweden, this is so successful that many companies in their advertising refer to which exit number it is to be able to find.



We already had that in Poland. There was an early numbering of exit sings in Poland, but they were only signed out with the number of kilometers at the exit. Great example was the section Wroclaw - Nogowczyce, Autostrada A 4, which was opened in 2000/2001, as the "Wyjazd XXX" signage (E-20 i guess) was normal:


Węzeł Prądy, signed out as "*Wyjazd 219*", nowadays known as "Węzeł Opole-Zachod" (ver 2000 - 2016):










Until 2010, there were no gas stations at this section, so many gas station - companies advertised their stations, which were located nearby the exits:








As you can see here, they used the "Wyjazd XXX"-signage as a orientation, which is nowadays outdated.


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## General Maximus

^^ So is Statoil. Who have they been replaced by in Poland?


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## Kemo

Circle-K

or "syrkolkej" in Polish :troll:


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## ChrisZwolle

Statoil has also been replaced by Circle K in Scandinavia. I think they have ended all their downstream distribution activities.


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## RipleyLV

AFAIK "Circle K" bought "Statoil", and they rebranded all their stations (Scandinavia, Baltics, Russia, etc.).


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## General Maximus

Statoil (also in Ireland at the time) used to be a part of the "Routex" family. (BP, Eni, Aral, ÖMV...) -I wonder if that Circle K is Routex as well.

So, I googled it, and yes, they're Routex.


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## LM69

However, what was really odd with this early version of sign E-20 (Wyjazd XXX) is the fact, that the disapperance is "undefined". What I mean by that is, that the introduction of the newer (and todays standard beside the experimental version) version isn't really clear. A good example is, again, Autostrada A 4, section between Nogowczyce and (Gliwice) Sosnica. The section opened in 2003/2005, but still used "Wyjazd" signage. But we also know, that the followed section, (Gliwice) Sosnica - (Katowice) Mikolowska, which opened in 2001, has the newer version with the name of the exit without the numbers. You could really say, the distribution of the two versions was arbitrary.

Wezel Bojkow, signed out as *Wjazd 311*, nowadays known as "Wezel Gliwice Bojkow", opened in 2005:









Wezel Wspolna, opened in 2001:









Wezel Kleszczow, opened in 2003, was the first exit, who got his real name signed out in 2011:

*Wyjazd 293*, ver. 2003 - 2011:








ver. 2011 - now:









In summary, polish signage was always a bit "strange".


----------



## Kanadzie

indeed
it sucks they didn't keep kilometric exit numbers and add them to the names, e.g. with a tab over the sign (like the actual exit sign)


----------



## db84

Kanadzie said:


> indeed
> it sucks they didn't keep kilometric exit numbers and add them to the names, e.g. with a tab over the sign (like the actual exit sign)


The problem is that numbers are not intuitive, names are more intuitive, however only if these are known names.

Everybody in Poland knows the city Gliwice, but no one knows there is a village Kleszczów nearby. Therefore that junction should be named Gliwice Zachód (West).

A similar case was of junction Pikutkowo (now Włocławek Zachód) which gained interest only because the name Pikutkowo sounds silly in Polish.


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## Luki_SL

^^The junction Kopytkowo (South of Gdańsk ) still exists on the Amber One


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## db84

Luki_SL said:


> ^^The junction Kopytkowo (South of Gdańsk ) still exists on the Amber One


Right, but the problem is that Kopytkowo is in the middle of nowhere. Should it be Kwidzyn Far Far West?


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## Luki_SL

^^I think it should be Skórcz


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## Chris80678

I think Wolanów exit on the soon-to-be-opened S7 Radom bypass should be called Radom Centrum, since going east DK12 heads close to the centre of Radom

On A1 motorway:

*Stanisławie exit should be renamed Tczew Centrum;

*Swarożyn exit should be renamed Tzcew Południe;

*Nowe Marzy exit should be renamed Grudziądz Zachód. The existing Grudziądz exit would then become Grudziądz Południe;

*Lubicz exit should be renamed Toruń Wschód.


I think the list of naming exits after villages and not nearest town is a mentality which Poland is stuck with for a long time yet. We have had this debate for a long time on this forum though


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## db84

Luki_SL said:


> ^^I think it should be Skórcz


While I know where Kwidzyn is, I wouldn't automatically locate Skórcz on the map. I locate skurcze in my muscles when I forget my Magnesium pill after work-out :lol:


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## Kanadzie

It's kind of interesting as this signing method is essentially unknown in North America, instead the cross-road is used for interchange name.

I guess you'd end up with a dozen exits for "aleja Jana Pawla II" or "ul. Armia Krajowa" and the like though :lol:


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## Kpc21

On the other hand, one of the junctions near Łódź was originally supposed to be called Węzeł Wrocław.

If I remember well, the A1/S8 one.

Yes, you could exit there to Wrocław. But it's still like 200 km to get there.

They renamed it to Łódź Południe, which means Łódź South.


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## Kemo

Kanadzie said:


> It's kind of interesting as this signing method is essentially unknown in North America, *instead the cross-road is used for interchange name.*



Murckowska https://www.google.pl/maps/@50.2465...4!1sp0eu43lkiDEmI09vZCJZOw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Łabiszyńska https://www.google.pl/maps/@52.3037...4!1sOm1c34CsyVaLUFHV1c-OEQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Exit naming system is a complete mess in Poland. But then, the whole road signage system is a mess, so what can you expect...


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## Kpc21

The exits on the A4 Cracow bypass for some years had adjective names (like węzeł Balicki - Balice interchange, but Balice, a name of a district and an airport, used as an adjective and not as noun - it normally works so in Polish e.g. with street names) and it sounded really well - but they changed them to noun names, so e.g. węzeł Balicki became węzeł Balice. Probably to unify it with the rest of the country.


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## Kemo

*Upcoming motorway openings*

*S3 E65 Legnica - Bolków* (37.1 km)
For a long time, it will be one of the least busy sections of motorway in Poland.

Photos by fiker










https://farm2.static.flickr.com/1953/44964874772_058b5becca_h.jpg


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## Kemo

*Upcoming motorway openings*
*
S7 E77 Radom bypass* (25.2 km)
Radom is the largest city between Warsaw and Cracow that doesn't yet have a bypass road.

source of photos


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## Uppsala

So you have 3 kinds of signage for exits in Poland?

1. Signs with text *"Wyjazd"* and then a number based on kilometers.

2. Signs without number but with name instead of number.

3. Signs of modern type, with exit numbers similar to Sweden, with numbers in number sequence.

Am I right here?


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## MAG

Uppsala said:


> So you have 3 kinds of signage for exits in Poland?


As *Kpc21* already said, there are only two types of exit signs left and the general trend is to migrate the Polish network to the ones labelled 1 and 3 below (so-called experimental type):
















You can look up the proposed junction names and numbers here, a document which is a work in progress and which needs aligning to our ever-changing reality on a regular basis. Yes, there are gaps, frustrating discrepancies and discontinuities in this document but it serves as a good basis from which to refine the end-product. Surprisingly to some, there are few (or even none?) exits named after deities, famous dead people, clergy, or with reference to battles lost or won. Just sensible place names augmented with geographical directions. And long may it stay that way.









.


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## RipleyLV

^^ Interesting map. And great to see the perspective Warsaw-ring.


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## ChrisZwolle

Number 6 has a different symbol (a two-lane road crossing instead of a motorway crossing). Is that a new style? Why don't they use the regular exit symbol?


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## Kpc21

ChrisZwolle said:


> Why don't they use the regular exit symbol?


We all ask this question in the Polish SSC section.

Actually, they use the regular exit symbol - to indicate the exit number:










But the sign with name refers to the whole interchange and not to a single exit, maybe this is their way of thinking.


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## ChrisZwolle

It's possible. On the other hand, they probably copied these interchange symbols from other countries, but elsewhere they are never used to indicate regular exits, I've only seen this in Poland.


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## MichiH

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's possible. On the other hand, they probably copied these interchange symbols from other countries, but elsewhere they are never used to indicate regular exits, I've only seen this in Poland.


You've never seen a "normal" (not like pic 6) interchange symbol for "normal" exits? Come to Germany...


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## ChrisZwolle

Well they are typically used for motorway-to-motorway interchanges. Sometimes the crossroad is not an official motorway, but has motorway characteristics. 

In case of Poland I would use them only for autostrada-autostrada/droga ekspresowa interchanges. Maybe an odd one for really high standard GP class roads like DTŚ.


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## MichiH

^^ Sure, but it's sometimes used in Germany for simple B road - motorway exits.


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## Uppsala

Kpc21 said:


> We all ask this question in the Polish SSC section.
> 
> Actually, they use the regular exit symbol - to indicate the exit number:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But the sign with name refers to the whole interchange and not to a single exit, maybe this is their way of thinking.



But only a few look like this in Poland. And still only experiment?

I think its time to use it like a standard.


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## Kpc21

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's possible. On the other hand, they probably copied these interchange symbols from other countries, but elsewhere they are never used to indicate regular exits, I've only seen this in Poland.


I know it's stupid. But tell it to our government  They think they know better how to do things than some guys from an Internet forum. Even if they are presented a ready to implement really well-designed custom-made comprehensive motorway signage system.

The thing is, the "regular exit" and "interchange" are called the same in Polish: "węzeł drogowy" - "road node". If you want to distinguish them, you need additional descriptions, like "a node of two motorways" or "a node of a motorway with a national road" or use the symbols to indicate the interchange types: WA (fully collisionless), WB (partially collisionless), WC (where all left turns cross other flows of traffic, only driving ahead on at least one of the roads is collisionless) - WA could use the "interchange" symbol while WB and WC the "exit" symbol.

It doesn't really mean anything but it may further explain the ways of thinking of the government officials. 'This is "węzeł" and this is "węzeł", so why should they have different symbols?'


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## ChrisZwolle

Maybe you guys on the Polish SSC can make up a new name for motorway-motorway interchanges instead of "węzeł" 

Sortie - échangeur/croix. Anschlussstelle - Autobahnkreuz/dreieck. Aansluiting - knooppunt. Frakørsel - motorvejskryds.


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## Dantiscum

Kpc21 said:


> The thing is, the "regular exit" and "interchange" are called the same in Polish: "węzeł drogowy" - "road node".


I think it would be "_knot_" in english. _Node_ is more like _lymph node_ (węzeł chłonny)



ChrisZwolle said:


> Maybe you guys on the Polish SSC can make up a new name for motorway-motorway interchanges instead of "węzeł"
> 
> Sortie - échangeur/croix. Anschlussstelle - Autobahnkreuz/dreieck. Aansluiting - knooppunt. Frakørsel - motorvejskryds.


And so it would have to be "węzeł" for motorway interchanges - like "Knoten" in Austria (that's the the same word). 
The small exits would have to be called different. I don't know, maybe something like "punkt dostępu do autostrady" (motorway access point)


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## Kemo

Kpc21 said:


> The thing is, the "regular exit" and "interchange" are called the same in Polish: "węzeł drogowy"


Well, actually, the junctions on A4 Wrocław - Gliwice used to be called "Wyjazd" (as it can be seen several posts above).

So the solution is simple:



ChrisZwolle said:


> Maybe you guys on the Polish SSC can make up a new name for motorway-motorway interchanges instead of "węzeł"



"Węzeł" should mean an interchange between two motorways

"Wyjazd" should mean an exit from a motorway


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## LM69

Kemo said:


> Exit naming system is a complete mess in Poland. But then, the whole road signage system is a mess, so what can you expect...



You get it! :lol:


Best example:
"Węzeł Bielany Wrocławskie", main highway-exit from Wroclaw for several years (until 2000 [opening of "Wezel Wroclaw Wschod"]/2011 [opening of "AOW"]), but still named after a small town nearby the exit.. :nuts:. The thing here was, that the exit sign in direction polish - german border was missing for several years, apparently it was forgotten to be added in the early 00's, as this highway section opened.


Google Street View in 2011:










I first saw an added exit sign in summer 2012 for this interchange, but what confused me to this day is the fact, why the old uncommon and outdated "Wyjazd"-signage was used. 



Google Street View in 2013, exact same place as the first picture:










Made absolute no sense to me...:nuts: (apparently, the common version of the sign was added in 2016).


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## ChrisZwolle

Well, problem solved!


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## Dantiscum

But _wyjazd_ means _Ausfahrt_  I think you can also enter the motorway on this spot, not only exit it


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## Puritan

ChrisZwolle said:


> It runs through lowlands very similar to the Netherlands.


This region is similar to the Netherlands in geographical and cultural terms 

Olędrzy/Holländer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olędrzy


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## Don Alessandro

Two huge openings today in Poland:

1. S7 bypass of Radom (25 km)

https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/31112/S7-ekspresowo-omijamy-Radom

2. S8 gap closure from Wyszków to Poręba (13km)

https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/31117/Bezpieczniej-i-szybciej-z-Bialegostoku-do-Warszawy


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## Chris80678

Go Poland! :banana:


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## Chris80678

I agree


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## geogregor

Chris80678 said:


> I agree


But it looks cool


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## Chris80678

Yes it does look cool as well. Not many road openings left in 2018 now


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Still some to go


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## Kemo

Upcoming, confirmed motorway openings:

*S7* near Chęciny: end of October
*S7* Kiezmark - Elbląg: end of October
*S5* Lipno - Leszno South: beginning of November
*DK16* Olsztyn-West - Olsztyn-South: November
*S3* Zielona Góra-North - Niedoradz: November
*S3* Niedoradz - Nowa Sól-South: December

There are a couple more that may be opened in December, but it's too early yet to confirm.


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## Kanadzie

geogregor said:


> But it looks cool


First, Kudowa-Zdrój nobody liked, sounded like small-minded country
now Praha, too far away
Poles like to complain :nuts:hno:


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## and802

ChrisZwolle said:


> Praha (Prague) at 702 kilometers is a bit over-the-top if you ask me...


"Praha" makes more sense once the S3 road towards Czech border is finished.
on the other hand as it is an E67 road you should be informed about key milestones


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## ChrisZwolle

The problem with signing cities so far away, with multiple other large cities coming first, is that at some areas the signs will get cluttered. That's why you need a national tree-map of destinations to create a coherent an consistent destination policy, and avoid overloading the signs with too many cities in some areas.

For example, how will Praha be signed from here: via A2-A1 to Łódź or via S8 to Łódź? S8 is the route number, but it's faster taking A2+A1 to Łódź. However the decision to make Praha continuous will also add the to the number of destinations on the signs in Warsaw and on A2.


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## and802

ChrisZwolle said:


> ...
> 
> For example, how will Praha be signed from here: via A2-A1 to Łódź or via S8 to Łódź? S8 is the route number, but it's faster taking A2+A1 to Łódź....


via s8 naturally.
and you are right: A2+A1 is probably faster.
thats is why i said this sign makes more sense once S3 is finished. now it might be misleading...

so this is an "in advance" sign.


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## Kemo

S6 and the recently opened bypass of Olchowo.
This is one of the sections that may be completed ahead of schedule.

Photos by *Jacyk*
































































Connecting the new S6 with "old" bypass of Nowogard









Junction Nowoagrd-West


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## Kanadzie

and802 said:


> via s8 naturally.
> and you are right: A2+A1 is probably faster.
> thats is why i said this sign makes more sense once S3 is finished. now it might be misleading...
> 
> so this is an "in advance" sign.


You could always sign both options 
e.g.


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## Kemo

^^
Like here: https://www.google.pl/maps/@54.4226...4!1sGMNvxP0baCfOWRFOJ32KpQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
("przez" = "via")


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## ChrisZwolle

Exit Koszwały on S7 is apparently named Żuławy-West. Is this the first exit in Poland named after a region instead of a town / city?


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## Erkaesowiec

S17


AndyB66 said:


> *Garwolin-Gończyce*:
> 
> Budowa trasy głównej (strona lewa i prawa), wiadukt WD23 - węzeł Górzno
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wiadukt WD23 w km 52+118
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Przejście dla zwierząt PZG23c w km 54+450
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Montaż dylatacji - trasa główna (strona lewa) Gończyce
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wiadukt WD26 w km 58+377
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ogrodzenie dla herpetofauny
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Układanie nawierzchni betonowej w km 61+600-62+200
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wiadukt WD27 w miejscowości Gończyce, km 59+910
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wykonywanie zbiornika Zb-3


----------



## ViaBaltic1

New section S8 expressway.


----------



## ufonut

S61 - bypass of Suwalki.

Someone posted this drone footage in 4K. Looks recent.


----------



## Mercos

What are the standards concerning lane width in S roads and A roads in Poland?


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## SRC_100

^^
icard:



Mercos said:


> I believe that trucks are often driving close to the left lane because of the rumble strip separating the emergency lane. This rumble strip is good in a way that they are intended to wake up sleepy drivers, but on the other way it generate discomfort when you drive on it and truck drivers are "afraid" to drive on it, so they drive closer to the center lane, add do this that driving lanes are downgraded to "only" 3,5 m instead of full profile of 3,75 m.


We have different experieces. I use to observe that the very most of trucks are driving the middle of its lane, so they have half meter space on lef and right. In this case I don`t see any problems with overtaking them, and 25 cm make not much differeces in this matter.



Mercos said:


> There are no scheduled renovation/reconstruction of this portion, AFAIK.


They are. The project was divided to 5 lots, what means 5 separated tenders. The very first is going to be announced this or next month.



Mercos said:


> Nice as yours.
> Reap what you sow.
> Btw., I don't have to receive any "lessons" from you. You're outta your mind.


No comment... just childish... you are not able to make conversation if anyone doesn`t agree with you. It`s very sad.



Mercos said:


> I had some very dangerous situations with trucks that run into my lane when I was overtaking them. That's why I decide to "complain" here.


So, the problem is with truck driver behavior, not with width of lanes... in this case, even 4 m lanes could helped not much...


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## Sponsor

SRC_100 said:


> Your experiences are at least weird, 25 cm does not make the lane too narrow.


But must say that the difference between 3,75 + 3,75 and 3,50 + 3,50 is perceptible. Especially considering the fact that A-roads go straight and flat and S-roads are much more curvy and hilly.



Mercos said:


> Also, trucks in Poland are driving very close to the line, even crossing it sometimes, I had to horn and brake stiffly many times.


I drive hundreds of kilometers on 3,50 + 3,50 S-roads each month and never had such problem. Also watching timelapses don't confirm that.



Mercos said:


> Not saying that in whole Europe it's 4 m, but in many countries it is, and it makes a big difference in the comfort of driving.


Will you provide some examples?



sponge_bob said:


> No, most motorways in Europe are built with 3.6-3.75m lanes, sometimes 3.5m on the inside or slow lane and 3.75m in the outside or fast lane.


If the lane width on a carriageway vary then faster lanes get narrower. Which seems logical as slower lanes tend to be occupated by trucks.
1
2
3
4 (read the last position)



Mercos said:


> The whole 75 kilometers southbound stretch of A/DK18 b/n German border in Olszyna and Golnice sucks hard. There are no scheduled renovation/reconstruction of this portion, AFAIK.


There is. Tenders might start this year and completion dates of all sections are 2021-2023. 
source: GDDKiA


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## Proterra

I have no problem driving 120-150 at night through the >1.9m< "fast lane" in German "baustellen" if lack of traffic permits. And I drive a relatively large estate. 

I honestly don't see how a 3.5 metre wide road is problematic even for beginner drivers unless their blood alcohol content makes it more difficult for them to stay between the lines...


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## sponge_bob

Proterra said:


> I honestly don't see how a 3.5 metre wide road is problematic even for beginner drivers.


You would certainly be more alert on a 3.5+3.5 road and in a large country like Poland you would be more tired after driving all the way across it....now that you can drive to the 4 corners of Poland more or less on continual motorway S and A. 

As Poland has a lot of transit traffic you could end up sharing the road with (EG) tired Belorussian truck drivers who have made it all the way from Milan on their way to Minsk or with my pet hate, Latvian drivers.


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## Proterra

sponge_bob said:


> You would certainly be more alert on a 3.5+3.5 road and in a large country like Poland you would be more tired after driving all the way across it....now that you can drive to the 4 corners of Poland more or less on continual motorway S and A.
> 
> As Poland has a lot of transit traffic you could end up sharing the road with (EG) tired Belorussian truck drivers who have made it all the way from Milan on their way to Minsk or with my pet hate, Latvian drivers.


Don't forget the Greek drivers who try to make it across the mountains in the dead of winter while not being properly equipped for this, and causing traffic to back up behind them on Zakopianka for half a kilometre while they're climbing up the hill with 10-15 km/h.

Or Turkish truck drivers who made it all the way from Edirne in one go and swerve from lane to lane, although this has improved since GITD started taking their job more serious in the last few years so that rules are actually enforced


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## Sponsor

ChrisZwolle said:


> 3.5 meter wide lanes is pretty common across Europe. Or sometimes 3.75 meter wide lanes include lane markings, making the net width of lanes narrower than that.


Is there any international standard how they measure it or does it vary between countries?

In Poland the lane width is measured between the axis of lines. Still I'm not sure if this also fits to side lines (A) or they are measured to the edge (B).


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## ChrisZwolle

I don't know. But keep in mind that the width of the lane markings also varies by country, in particular the edge marking. In the German example it is 0.50 m wide but I think it's not nearly as wide in many other countries.


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## Sponsor

Line 0,5 meters wide? Looks like classic ~20-25 cm, not like dutch marking dividing different directions.


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## Kanadzie

geogregor said:


> To be honest this stretch shouldn't be signed as motorway anyway as it doesn't fulfill many modern standards. But of course it got its motorway status "grandfathered". The same applies to many older motorways around the world which wouldn't get the status granted nowadays.


Is true but the situation isn't only "A" letter grandfathered, and 110 limit posted everywhere, which is nonsense (I followed TVP van at 190, breaking news :lol
Maybe could accept lower limit than 140 as the standard is lower, but not less than 120-130... the road surface is good and people ignore.


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## geogregor

sponge_bob said:


> You would certainly be more alert on a 3.5+3.5 road and in a large country like Poland you would be more tired after driving all the way across it....now that you can drive to the 4 corners of Poland more or less on continual motorway S and A.
> 
> As Poland has a lot of transit traffic you could end up sharing the road with (EG) tired Belorussian truck drivers who have made it all the way from Milan on their way to Minsk or with my pet hate, Latvian drivers.





Proterra said:


> Don't forget the Greek drivers who try to make it across the mountains in the dead of winter while not being properly equipped for this, and causing traffic to back up behind them on Zakopianka for half a kilometre while they're climbing up the hill with 10-15 km/h.
> 
> Or Turkish truck drivers who made it all the way from Edirne in one go and swerve from lane to lane, although this has improved since GITD started taking their job more serious in the last few years so that rules are actually enforced


Problems with tired or "rule-bending" truck drivers should be dealt with by traffic enforcement and not by increasing the lane width. If trucker is swaying from left to right even 5 m lanes won't help hno:


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## mapman:cz

Germany uses mostly 15 cm (dividing line) and 30 cm (edge line) on Autobahns.
In Czechia we use 12,5 cm and 25 cm. The edge line is included in shoulder width, the centre line is included in lane width. The lane width in CZ is dependable on the width of carriageway: 

on 11,5 m wide c/w lanes are 3,75 m wide, right shoulder 3,5 m, left shoulder 0,5 m;
on 10,75 m wide c/w lanes are 3,5 m (fast lane) and 3,75 m (slow lane) wide, right shoulder 3,0 m, left shoulder 0,5 m;
on 10,25 m wide c/w lanes are 3,5 m wide, right shoulder 2,75 m, left shoulder 0,5 m;
on 8,75 m wide c/w lanes are 3,25 m (fast lane) and 3,5 m (slow lane) wide, right shoulder 1,5 m, left shoulder 0,5 m;


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## Erkaesowiec

S17 voivodeship border - Skrudki



Maximus2 said:


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## sponge_bob

One other factor with Polish S Road Lane widths.

It strikes me that WHEN some of these S roads come up for widening in future (I estimate within 10 years near the bigger cities) that the only way to do it cheaply is to encroach into the Median. The median seems wide enough on a standard Polish S Road that it could be retrofitted to 2 x 3.5m lanes and with a bit of a median left over. 

From what I see of the current medians the only way to do it will be to add a third parallel lane of 3.5m width on either side and to then use a Jersey Barrier instead of the existing Armco. 

This will result in 3.5m x 3 lanes each way and with the fast lane driving along less than a metre from the concrete wall.


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## Kemo

The median is usually 12 m wide.


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## SRC_100

sponge_bob said:


> It strikes me that WHEN some of these S roads come up for widening in future (I estimate within 10 years near the bigger cities) that the only way to do it cheaply is to encroach into the Median. The median seems wide enough on a standard Polish S Road that it could be retrofitted to 2 x 3.5m lanes and with a bit of a median left over.
> 
> From what I see of the current medians the only way to do it will be to add a third parallel lane of 3.5m width on either side and to then use a Jersey Barrier instead of the existing Armco.
> 
> This will result in 3.5m x 3 lanes each way and with the fast lane driving along less than a metre from the concrete wall.


A few words of explanation to the above:
The vast majority of Polish expressways have reserves for the third lane. The reserve for the third lane occurs either in the middle of the express road (medians) or outside. In the first case, the median is 12 m wide, in the second 5 m wide. 


If we upgrade exw to the third lanes, in both cases left 5m of median. Likewise, the matter is in the case of motorways.


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## ufonut

Bypass of Radom by Krzysztof Nalewajko



















Lanes dont look narrow to me. Reserve on the inside looks also sufficient to accomodate another lane and a divider.


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## ChrisZwolle

SRC_100 said:


> The vast majority of Polish expressways have reserves for the third lane.


I've read somewhere that a spatial reservation for a third lane is standard for TEN-T routes. Which happen to be most S-roads currently under construction.


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## sponge_bob

ChrisZwolle said:


> I've read somewhere that a spatial reservation for a third lane is standard for TEN-T routes.


Maybe it is policy in Poland but I have driven Ten-T Comprehensive (not core) Network 2+2 Motorways that opened in the last year and with no land reserved anywhere for future widening. 

Most of Polands S roads are Ten-T comprehensive. The S Road to Bialystok from Warsaw would be a Ten-T core road.


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> I've read somewhere that a spatial reservation for a third lane is standard for TEN-T routes. Which happen to be most S-roads currently under construction.


To be precise. There was a moment, when this was an official policy, set by national road authority in its guidelines. In general, it was used for the roads designed & build around the 2012 road construction boom.

However, after the 2013 economy slowdown which hit the national budget the policy was changed and even some designs which already included a reserver were "optimized" to lower the cost. Example: S61 Suwałki bypass.

At the moment it is case-by-case, driven also aby traffic forecast.


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## rakcancer

ufonut said:


> Bypass of Radom by Krzysztof Nalewajko




I like the "one beam" posts and crossbar sign support solution vs so common in Poland of these ones which IMHO look like something temporary or under construction:


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## ChrisZwolle

These gantries look rather flimsy. It's not the weight of the sign, but the wind resistance that determine the load capacity of a gantry.


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## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> These gantries look rather flimsy. It's not the weight of the sign, but the wind resistance that determine the load capacity of a gantry.


They might hope for sign to detach from the gantry. But I doubt it as it would be rather unsafe idea to have signs flying around in high winds


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## Kemo

Missing section of S7 near Chęciny (Kielce) finally opened to traffic:



hctkko said:


> Przejazd nowym odcinkiem. Miła odmiana po 1,5 roku stania w korkach dzień w dzień :banana:


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## Luki_SL

^^It's only 1 km of new road, but you spend even 15-30min less time in traffic jam than yesterday .


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## Erkaesowiec

S7 Zakopianka



Bambus1 said:


> Źródło http://s7-lubien-rabka.pl


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## Erkaesowiec

S7 Zakopianka




Bambus1 said:


> Źródło http://s7-lubien-rabka.pl


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## Erkaesowiec

S7 Zakopianka



Bambus1 said:


> Źródło http://s7-lubien-rabka.pl


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## Erkaesowiec

S7 Zakopianka



Bambus1 said:


> Źródło http://s7-lubien-rabka.pl


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## Erkaesowiec

S7 Zakopianka



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## Erkaesowiec

S7 Zakopianka



Bambus1 said:


> Źródło http://s7-lubien-rabka.pl


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## Erkaesowiec

S7 Zakopianka



Bambus1 said:


> Źródło http://s7-lubien-rabka.pl


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## ChrisZwolle

*S7*

Congratulations! :cheers: A 200+ kilometer section of S7 is now complete in Northern Poland, from Gdańsk to Napierki.


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## Maciek_CK

^^ I believe this also means that Warsaw - Gdańsk route via A2/A1 is no longer viable. Although there is still a 70-kilometer gap between Płońsk and Napierki on DK7, you avoid a fee, two toll booths and potential traffic congestion.

Some photos of the abovementioned expressway:









































































source 1, source 2.


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## paf1

I am going to still drive via A1 and A2 because I hate driving all those old Polish one lane roads.


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## Madrawski97

Maciek_CK said:


> Some photos of the abovementioned expressway:


There they are, the good ol' polish road signs :nuts: :troll:


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## rakcancer

Looks more like a mini toy stickers on temporary scaffolding than serious signage.


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## Uppsala

rakcancer said:


> Looks more like a mini toy stickers on temporary scaffolding than serious signage.



And no exitnumbers on that new motorway?


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## JackFrost

Good job, Poland. kay:










One would think that tiny piece of "Warsaw-ring" in the east would be built asap.


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## Uppsala

JackFrost said:


> Good job, Poland. kay:



Yes very good! Since the S7 was completed between Gdańsk and Elbląg, it is now possible to drive only on motorway/expressway between Berlin and Kaliningrad. Then it's a very big detour, but that's another thing 

Drive on A2 from D-border to Łódź. From Łódź follow A1 to Gdańsk. Then S7 from Gdańsk to Elbląg. And finally S22 from Elbląg to RUS-border :happy:

Yes, this is a huge detour. There is no practical way to follow either. But we are motorway-fans here. And yet this shows that Berlin and Kaliningrad now for the first time have a motorway between the cities :happy:


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## Luki_SL

^^The S5 Poznań - A1 will be completed in 2 years. It'll be faster


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## rakcancer

ChrisZwolle said:


> I believe they rerouted the planned S10 a couple of years ago to serve Płock, which was then considered the largest city in Poland with no motorway planned to go near it.


They did propose new S10 closer to Płock but since then it is very quiet and nothing official about that anymore. It would be interesting to know what is the current situation with S10 between Toruń and S7 north of Warszawa (with possible extension towards S8? ). On official website of GDDKiA there is still old route. https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/mapa-stanu-budowy-drog_mazowieckie


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## rakcancer

sponge_bob said:


> What is the largest city in Poland that still does not have a functioning A or S road within at least 20km of it. ???


Beside Płock mentioned by ChrisZwolle Wałbrzych - almost the same size of Płock has over 20km of driving from its center to the very freshly open S3 near Bolkow, and then Jelenia Gora with about 90k in population on the other side of mentioned S3. 
That situation is supposed to change in 2023 after extending S3 south.


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## sponge_bob

rakcancer said:


> Beside Płock mentioned by ChrisZwolle Wałbrzych - almost the same size of Płock has over 20km of driving from its center to the very freshly open S3 near Bolkow, and then Jelenia Gora with about 90k in population on the other side of mentioned S3.


OK, so three cities of around 100k people each are still a distance from the A and S Road network. But at least 2 of them are a lot nearer than they were, in the last few months. There is Kalisz as well isn't there.


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## rakcancer

Actually you are right, Kalisz is about the same distance as Walbrzych is from S (S11 -Ostrow bypass).


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## rakcancer

And one more city on our list without access to S/A: Koszalin. (Which next year will have access to S6).


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## Kirt93

sponge_bob said:


> OK, so three cities of around 100k people each are still a distance from the A and S Road network.


I'd say "has functioning A/S section within 20 kms" and "is still a distance from the A and S road network" and far from equivalent, though. Bydgoszcz as mentioned above cannot be said to be "a short distance from the A/S road network": Bydgoszcz is a short distance from a tiny section of S road, but it decisively is not a short distance from the network.

Same can be said of Lublin, which has quite long and nice (way longer than Bydgoszcz) S road, but you need to drive a large distance (minimum 75 km section on non-A/S roads) to get from Lublin to any other point of the highway network. So I would say the "most correct" answer is:
1. *Bydgoszcz* (350'000, Poland's #8 city)
2. *Lublin* (340'000, Poland's #9 city)
3. *Częstochowa* (225'000, Poland's #13 city). And Częstochowa as number 1 for truly technically having absolute 0 kms of A/S road nearby (although admittedly there's very few DK roads in Poland which are as trouble-free to drive as DK1 from Częstochowa to Piotrków).

Luckily, all three of them will get properly connected by A/S roads as soon as 2019! 



rakcancer said:


> Jelenia Gora with about 90k in population on the other side of mentioned S3.


Nowy Sącz is up there on the list of sad places in this regard too. With just a bit smaller population (84'000), it has the shortest drive of 55 kilometers to the nearest A/S road, not only nowadays but also when the full A/S network (as envisioned nowadays) is completed  In the light-weight category of 50'000+ cities, Suwałki (70'000) would be my bet for having the worst in all of Poland right now, with only a tiny section of S road nearby and leagues and leagues of nothing apart from that. Suwałki's problem to be solved 3 years from now, though: after that time, Biała Podlaska might be next in the queue, with over 100 km shortest drive to highway network before A2 is extended to the east. Piła's prospects in near future look very grim too.


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## sponge_bob

By way of comparison Hungary have connected everything over 60k population to Budapest by their S/A equivalents but the network is still entirely radial with no connections to each other except via Budapest. Poland has a more of a grid style network.



Kirt93 said:


> Nowy Sącz is up there on the list of sad places in this regard too.


Is that not down for a spur motorway??

https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/mapa-stanu-budowy-drog_malopolskie


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## Kirt93

^^ As far as I know, the only plans are for a 2x2 GP-class road, with one-level intersections discouraged but allowed in the project ("_dostępność poprzez węzły i skrzyżowania z jednoczesnym wskazaniem do całkowitego wyeliminowania zjazdów_"), see http://dk75.pl/o-projekcie. On the other hand, in http://dk75.pl/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Prezentacja_ZOPI-OSTATECZNE.pdf it is said 2x2, 2+1 and 1x2 depending on the section. However it's true that when this road is built and if it's 2x2 as I expect it would (hopefully), the situation of Nowy Sącz will already be pretty good in practice, yet the "proper" A/S network will still be quite afar. [edit: I guess if the final project has no one-level intersections, then we can indeed say it's "de facto S". However less so if it has some one-level intersections left, or is less than 2x2 on large sections. Of course before the road is built, though, the situation is quite bad with 55 kms of slow 1x2 road largely through built-up areas before reaching A/S.]

PS. Interesting comparison with Hungary, I guess I like our approach more (even if, on paper, it leaves more towns unconnected). It look like by c.a. 2022, majority of the largest cities will have A/S connections in the majority of "interesting" directions (instead of only to "Budapest"). (Still quite a lot to be done before "majority" turns to "all", though. Especially S10 Bydgoszcz-Toruń will be badly needed in this regard).


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## sponge_bob

Kirt93 said:


> However it's true that when this road is built and if it's 2x2 as I expect it would (hopefully), the situation of Nowy Sącz will already be pretty good in practice, yet the "real" A/S network will still be quite afar.


They might be afraid of the cost per km for full S grade road in the Carpathians. 

But it would be relatively easy for Poland to have an objective in their next EU funding plan after 2020 (this should be published in a year or so) that:

_Every City in Poland with a population of (a number from 75k to 100k) is to be connected to the S or A Road network by 2027_. 2027 will mean 2029 in reality. 

Compared to where Poland was starting off when the last plan was published 6 years ago that would be a very easy task in most places.


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## TurtleMyrtle

sponge_bob said:


> By way of comparison Hungary have connected everything over 60k population to Budapest by their S/A equivalents but the network is still entirely radial with no connections to each other except via Budapest. Poland has a more of a grid style network.


To be fair, Hungary is 3x smaller than Poland with 4x less of the amount of population so it's much easier to build a coherent highway network as the distances between the towns are just much smaller. A radial highway network system wouldn't work in Poland as Warsaw is not in the very centre of Poland (Łódź) but in an awkward position to-the-side of the centre. 

However, the most important thing I think is that countries with a radial highway network (UK, France, Hungary) have capitals that contribute a lot in terms of economy to its respective countries (Budapest is way larger than any other city in Hungary whilst Paris and London alone contribute somewhere around 15% to the entire economy of the countries. Poland has a more polycentric development (pretty similar to Germany where development is spread across many cities but Poland is a bit less polycentric than that as Warsaw still is the main city that's ahead of every other one, unlike Berlin) as Warsaw has a less important role to Poland than Budapest does to Hungary (you have Kraków, Tri-City, Silesian metropolis, Wrocław etc...) so the network needs to be able to sustain a polycentric development.


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## sponge_bob

TurtleMyrtle said:


> To be fair, Hungary is 3x smaller than Poland with 4x less of the amount of population so it's much easier to build a coherent highway network as the distances between the towns are just much smaller.


It is not, it is equally easy as both countries are pretty flat and pretty dry.

Slovakia is brutal for sure and there are Carpathians sticking up between many important Romanian cities and their nearest important neighbours. 

Hungary has more high grade road BOTH relative to population and relative to size than Poland does, 1500km of it. The single big difference, however, is that Hungary started earlier and that it is very radial and the Budapest Ring is a single point of failure on the overall network.By 2021 there will almost be 4 different possible motorway routes from Wroclaw to Warsaw at the rate Poland is building them. 

Nor are Hungarian Expressways as good as Polish S roads, but they have more A road equivalents and some of that is certainly a function of country size like you said. 

The overall Polish plan is for 8000km where Hungary is planning over 2500km anyway, maybe even 3000km. 

Poland is building much faster than Hungary in recent years and has largely closed the length gap now, and will continue to build heavily until at least until 2021.


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## Kemo

Today a contract has been signed with Rubau for construction of second carriageway of * S1 E75 motorway* between Pyrzowice airport and Podwarpie interchange (S1xDK86) (Location on map: https://www.openstreetmap.org/direc...8723;50.42037,19.19691#map=13/50.4387/19.1421)

*S1:* Pyrzowice-Lotnisko – Podwarpie 10.0km (December 2018 to April 2021) – project – map

This is an important section since it will take over most of the traffic to Katowice from the north (Łódź, Warsaw, Gdańsk) once the mising section of A1 gets opened.


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## Chris80678

Second carriageway of S3 from Zielona Góra North to Niedoradz may be opened this Friday :banana:

Second carriageway of S3 from Niedoradz to Nowa Sól West may open mid December


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## Kemo

Construction works on S8 south-west of Warsaw are finishing.

Today, about 2.5 km (including Młochów junction) was opened in full 2x2 profile:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/direc...0.7965;52.0708,20.7603#map=15/52.0763/20.7784
There are still speed limits but obviously nobody cares



fork_ said:


>


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## PovilD

^^
Exit number signs looks enlarged in comparision to other sections of S-roads. Is this the new standard (though I doubt it) or the size of the sign was decided by the contractor?


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## sponge_bob

PovilD said:


> ^^
> Exit number signs looks enlarged in comparision to other sections of S-roads. Is this the new standard (though I doubt it) or the size of the sign was decided by the contractor?


For motorways in urban areas exits can be very close (~2km separation) where they are usually not so close in rural areas. So you can have more advance warnings in rural areas but you get one shot only in an urban area and then you are gone past it.

I reckon it is a new standard for that reason.


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## Kemo

^^ ^^
It is random.


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## bleetz

Interestingly, there are no motorway/expressway connections between Warsaw and Krakow, Katowice or Gdansk (not direct anyway) and each of the connections even still has 'grey' bits left, yet they have pretty much the entire section to the Lithuanian border (via the least densely populated side of Poland) either complete or under construction. I wonder if there's some geopolitics involved in this, i.e. NATO pulling strings a bit or similar, or is it because of other reasons, such as higher availability of land in the north east, wanting to make that region more competitive, etc.? It is great news for Lithuania but I am a bit surprised by this.


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## PovilD

bleetz said:


> Interestingly, there are no motorway/expressway connections between Warsaw and Krakow, Katowice or Gdansk (not direct anyway) and each of the connections even still has 'grey' bits left, yet they have pretty much the entire section to the Lithuanian border (via the least densely populated side of Poland) either complete or under construction. I wonder if there's some geopolitics involved in this, i.e. NATO pulling strings a bit or similar, or is it because of other reasons, such as higher availability of land in the north east, wanting to make that region more competitive, etc.? It is great news for Lithuania but I am a bit surprised by this.


My bet is that major cities have alternative roads though they are not direct, e.g. Warsaw-Krakow via Częstochowa. Warsaw-Gdansk via Torun. They are not motorways nor expressways in some parts, but they still have 2x2 configuration.

Poland-Lithuania(Baltic States) connection doesn't have many alternatives and the expressway construction was possibly pulled by the fact, that Lithuanian border crossing points has the biggest AADT among the other eastern/north-eastern borders of Poland. Shengen Area 

And yeah, S61/A5 connection overall will have big military importance, imo. Narrow Suwalki corridor is harder to defend and the road itself is quite easy way to get to other EU countries by land for Baltics.


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## geogregor

bleetz said:


> Interestingly, there are no motorway/expressway connections between Warsaw and Krakow, Katowice or Gdansk (not direct anyway) and each of the connections even still has 'grey' bits left, yet they have pretty much the entire section to the Lithuanian border (via the least densely populated side of Poland) either complete or under construction. I wonder if there's some geopolitics involved in this, i.e. NATO pulling strings a bit or similar, or is it because of other reasons, such as higher availability of land in the north east, wanting to make that region more competitive, etc.? It is great news for Lithuania but I am a bit surprised by this.


Simple answer: politics.


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## Eulanthe

Kemo said:


> All interchanges on A8 are trumpets, because it was planned to have manual toll collection system... what were they thinking?


I have absolutely no idea. The design of the junctions on the A8 are so unbelievably stupid, especially when trying to go from S5 South->A8 East, or from DK94 West->A8 East. 

I've seen a map somewhere that shows these planned toll stations, but really, how on earth did they think that they could create a manual tolling system with the amount of traffic that uses the A8 today? Though I guess Poland was a very different place 20 years ago in terms of traffic numbers...


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## hecoxkielce

Maciek_CK said:


> S7 in Świętokrzyskie is a growing boy . Skarżysko-Kamienna bypass is almost halfway done[/url]


That's a shame they took so little photos, this contract is one of the very few on our backyard where everything goes without any complications, despite all the difficulties which occured right before the works 

unluckily enough this area is struggling with the lack of users to document it


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## SRC_100

Eulanthe said:


> I have absolutely no idea. The design of the junctions on the A8 are so unbelievably stupid, especially when trying to go from S5 South->A8 East, or from DK94 West->A8 East.


I think that before the announcement of the tender for S5, it was necessary to change the design of the junction with the A8 motorway, especially since it has been known for a long time that the A8 motorway (AOW) will be toll-free.


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## Kemo

S7 between Brzegi and Mnichów (7.6 km) opens tomorrow


----------



## snowdog

rakcancer said:


> After announcing earlier this year that A2 near Poznań will be widened to 3 lanes, Ministry of Infrastructure is now planning to widen 88km section of A2 between Warsaw and Łódź.
> Construction of 3rd lane is supposed to take place no later than in 2021 and finish no later than in 2024.
> 
> Source and more info:
> https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/31686/Powstanie-trzeci-pas-na-A2-i-likwidacja-PPO-Pruszkow


Awesome, there are still governments in Europe who think ''oh the road is full, let's increase capacity!''. :cheers:


toonczyk said:


> Traffic on A2 between Łódź and Warsaw is very heavy. Last official measurement of AADT was in 2015, it was around 45k west of Grodzisk Mazowiecki, 57k between Grodzisk and Pruszków, 75k between Pruszków and Warsaw. Since the measurement, traffic volume has only increased.


Those figures don't seem very high to me, where I was used to hearing of 110k AADT's on 2x2 stretches of some Dutch motorways. :lol:

75K is stretching it indeed, but 45/57k, sounds like a calm road to me :lol:.

Nah but it's very welcome, overtaking trucks slow down your progress by so much, I remember 8-9 years ago, driving on the A2 with cruise control on 180 was no problem at all (sure a few trucks here and there). Now you're constantly braking for another TIR that wants to overtake. Or some old złom shaking around around 100 km/h on the left lane .


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## geogregor

snowdog said:


> I remember 8-9 years ago, driving on the A2 with *cruise control on 180* was no problem at all (sure a few trucks here and there). Now you're constantly braking for another TIR that wants to overtake. Or some old złom shaking around around 100 km/h on the left lane .


Oh poor you, can't drive like on a personal racetrack anymore, my heart is bleeding for you.


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## Erkaesowiec

S7 - Zakopianka



Bambus1 said:


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> Źródło http://www.s7-lubien-rabka.pl


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## Erkaesowiec

S17 Garwolin - voivodeship border


Gazeta Wyborcza said:


>


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## Uppsala

Are there any plans to do anything about the A18? This is a part of the motorway between Berlin and Kraków. It is also an important part of a longer motorway from D-border to the UA-border. So it would be time for the A18 to refurbish and finally get its right standard.


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## Kemo

Currently, two tenders are ongoing for refurbishment of A18:

- short ~1.5 km section at the border with Germany (refurbishment of both carriageways and building a new Olszyna junction)

- ~22 km section between Jędrzychowice and Lubieszów (refurbishment of the southern carriageway)


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## Kirt93

According to the official statements, A18 is supposed to be fully up to motorway standard by the end of 2023.

This date might be a bit overoptimistic considering the current lengths of tenders, and the time needed for preparations (A18 had not originally been included in the plans for 2014-2023, and it was just mid-2018 when the minister amended the plan, promoting A18 - hence, the process for obtaining new environmental decisions (DŚU) had not been set in motion before). Nonetheless, 2023 seems more or less an approximate timeframe for now.

About 33% of length will be built based on the old DŚU, and tenders for those have been started recently: the sections that Kemo listed. Official statement (again possibly a bit overoptimistic) is that the 22km section will be ready by late 2021. 

Also the funny thing is, regardless of if the 2023 date is met or not, actually the moment when the quality of driving will improve the most, should already come by early 2022. By this time, the 22km section should be ready and the reconstruction of the other sections should have started, which means the traffic on those sections will need to be diverted into 1x2 on the northern carriageway (which really should've been done a long time ago anyway).


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## Uppsala

^^
I think the history of the A18 is strange.

The A18 is built by Germans ar WW2. There was no money or resources to build it as a complete motorway, so the Germans built it as a half profile, yet to "argue" that it runs a motorway from Berlin to what they called Breslau. The Germans apparently considered that the half profile was still a motorway. And of course it was supposed to be complete afterwards.

The lack of resources to supplement A18 during cold war is not so strange.

But what's strange is that after A18 has been completed in 2005, everything stopped. When A18 became complete, it should have been natural that they had already started work on the southern carriageway immediately after the northern carriageway was completed.

The fact that A18 does not have motorway signs is not strange. The road is actually complete motorway, but the standard on the southern carriageway makes it too bad to have motorway signs.

A18 gives a bad impression of Poland in general. There are many who travel from Berlin to Wrocław, Katowice and Kraków. And for those who come from D-border, they get their first impression of Polish roads just off A18. Many people think that Poland is unable to maintain motorways without knowing that today there are lots of nice motorways in the rest of Poland.

So I think it's important to renovate A18. It is an important motorway in Poland.


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## Luki_SL

^^There are still many roads with highier AADT to rebuilt for motorways than A18.


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## MichiH

Kemo said:


> S7 between Brzegi and Mnichów (7.6 km) opens tomorrow


What's about the 4km section from Mnichow to Jedrzejow. Will it be opened in the next days or in 2019?


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## Luki_SL

^^It`ll be opened in the last days of 2019.


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## Kirt93

Uppsala said:


> Many people think that Poland is unable to maintain motorways without knowing that today there are lots of nice motorways in the rest of Poland.


You're totally right, unfortunately first impression is very strong - even if someone then sees a lot of good highway to Cracow e.g., the impression from the first "highway" lasts.

I do not think this is strange that 2nd carriageway has not been rebuilt quickly - AADT is really low like Luki said. What is strange is why the southern c/w has not been closed as soon as the northern one was built. Or closed on some 70% of length, so that the east-bound traffic drives on good-quality 1x2 for 70% of the time and has some sections of bad quality 2x2 for safe overtaking.

This had been discussed extensively on Polish subforum back then, and I really don't think any good reasons were put forward for why they shouldn't do that. There should be no congestion problems, and certainly from the "impression" point of view like you say, a good 1x2 with low AADT is way better than a disastrous 2x2.



Uppsala said:


> The fact that A18 does not have motorway signs is not strange. The road is actually complete motorway, but the standard on the southern carriageway makes it too bad to have motorway signs.


Well, the 1936-dated part of A11 in Germany is every bit as bad as DK18 and it is a motorway, so... :lol: Just kidding of course, neither Pol-DK18 nor Ger-A11 should have motorway signs. 

Anyway, it looks like the government agrees with your points :cheers:


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## Kanadzie

I wonder why there needs to be environmental approval for A 18 construction... the road already is there. Or is it much more elaborate work than just replacing the south carriageway?


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## Kirt93

^^ From the "road-only" point of view, there's little more to do than replacing the south carriageway, although still there are things to be done, the most prominent being that the carriageway needs to be widened apart from getting the new surface (which itself would be already enough to require an env. approval). Some other stuff needs to be done too to match A-road standards, but overall this is all fairly small and straightforward, especially when one takes into account that all but 2 bridges overpassing the highway have been already reconstructed along with construction of the north carriageway.

However there is a huge lot of work to be done regarding environmental standards. The current road has no environment protection utilities (except for the fence). When it is to be reconstructed into a motorway, it needs to adhere to the motorway standards regarding env. protection, the wildlife crossing over and below the road and so on. This is especially a prominent issue here compared to other Polish motorways, because huge lengths of this road go through Natura 2000 terrains.

The 22km for which the tender has been announced last week, are exactly those 22km that don't go through the wildlife-protection terrains. There will obviously be animal bridges and stuff constructed on this section, but same as on all the other highways, so nothing exceptional.

The remaining parts (for which the tenders are expected no sooner than 2 years from now) is the western-most 10 km section which goes about 50% through a landscape park, and the eastern 38 km section which goes almost 100% through Natura 2000 terrains.


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## Kemo

^^
And they are planning to reduce the number of wildlife overpasses to be built, hence they want to update the environmental approval.


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## escaton001

Luki_SL said:


> ^^It`ll be opened in the last days of 201*8*.


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## Uppsala

Kirt93 said:


> ^^ From the "road-only" point of view, there's little more to do than replacing the south carriageway, although still there are things to be done, the most prominent being that the carriageway needs to be widened apart from getting the new surface (which itself would be already enough to require an env. approval). Some other stuff needs to be done too to match A-road standards, but overall this is all fairly small and straightforward, especially when one takes into account that all but 2 bridges overpassing the highway have been already reconstructed along with construction of the north carriageway.
> 
> However there is a huge lot of work to be done regarding environmental standards. The current road has no environment protection utilities (except for the fence). When it is to be reconstructed into a motorway, it needs to adhere to the motorway standards regarding env. protection, the wildlife crossing over and below the road and so on. This is especially a prominent issue here compared to other Polish motorways, because huge lengths of this road go through Natura 2000 terrains.
> 
> The 22km for which the tender has been announced last week, are exactly those 22km that don't go through the wildlife-protection terrains. There will obviously be animal bridges and stuff constructed on this section, but same as on all the other highways, so nothing exceptional.
> 
> The remaining parts (for which the tenders are expected no sooner than 2 years from now) is the western-most 10 km section which goes about 50% through a landscape park, and the eastern 38 km section which goes almost 100% through Natura 2000 terrains.



Actually, it would already be possible to have motorway signs on the entire A18. Internationally, it is in any case allowed. However, they probably think in Poland that it does not meet the standard expected of a Polish motorway today.

And they actually do not have motorway signs on the A18. Because it would probably cause irritation among those who drive on the A18 if it had it. Because people would think that the road is better than it is.

Nevertheless, thousands are allowed to see just the A18 as the very first of Polish roads. Unfortunately, it makes a bad impression for Poland.


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## Chris80678

At least the A4 further south gives a good first impression of Polish motorways as you enter Poland from Germany 

Before A4 it was just two lane DK94


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## SRC_100

Who cares of the f...ing first impression?


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## Erkaesowiec

S17 Garwolin
- Gończyce


bronco10 said:


> Garwolin Gończyce cd
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> Budowa węzła Gończyce - rondo nr 2 (ok km 60+150
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> Nawierzchnia betonowa – przejazd awaryjny w km 53+155-53+245
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> http://s17-garwolin-gonczyce.pl/zadanie1_galeria.html





bronco10 said:


> Wykonywanie nawierzchni betonowej – przejazd awaryjny w km 53+155-53+245





bronco10 said:


> Garwolin Gończyce
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> cdn


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## MichiH

SRC_100 said:


> Who cares of the f...ing first impression?


Why should Poland be bothered by first impressions of foreigners?


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## SRC_100

^^
Have no idea, probably some kind of complexes, a sense of shame and/or inferiority


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## Kpc21

Uppsala said:


> Actually, it would already be possible to have motorway signs on the entire A18. Internationally, it is in any case allowed. However, they probably think in Poland that it does not meet the standard expected of a Polish motorway today.
> 
> And they actually do not have motorway signs on the A18. Because it would probably cause irritation among those who drive on the A18 if it had it. Because people would think that the road is better than it is.
> 
> Nevertheless, thousands are allowed to see just the A18 as the very first of Polish roads. Unfortunately, it makes a bad impression for Poland.


I think they could easily put the motorway signs at least in one direction if A4 has them but maybe someone came to a conclusion that it's impossible regarding administrative procedures to have a road which is a motorway in one direction and a "fast traffic main highway" (this is one road class below an expressway in our nomenclature) in the other.

In general, the roads in Poland are divided into classes which differ in the technical parameters:
A – autostrada – motorway
S – droga ekspresowa – expressway
GP – droga główna ruchu przyspieszonego – fast traffic main highway
G – droga główna – main highway
Z – droga zbiorcza – collective road
L – droga lokalna – local road
D – droga dojazdowa – access road

and into categories (on which depends their administrative ownership):
– national roads – classes: A, S or GP
– voivodeship roads – classes: GP or G
– county roads – classes: GP, G or Z
– municipal roads – classes: GP, G, Z, L or D.

There are also non-public/internal roads, which also might be public or even municipal property.


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## bartek76

^^
Z- droga zbiorcza - collector road


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## ChrisZwolle

GP roads appear to have a large variation in design standard; two-lane, 2+1, 2x2, controlled-access, at-grade, design speed from 60 to 100, etc. Some of them are near-motorway standard, others definitely not.


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## bartek76

This is due to peculiar plannig laws, in a nutshell if there is a house next to the road then you can built another one next to the first and so on, the result is endless sprawl along roads, built up areas, speed limits and so on.
GP class of roads is a way around this as you cannot built housing next to them or rather have direct access from property to them and they are in general use in places where motorway does not make sense and G road would be in risk of being build up.


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## Chris80678

http://zielonagora.wyborcza.pl/ziel...odcinkiem-drogi-s3.html?disableRedirects=true

Second carriageway of S3 Niedoradz to Nowa Sól opens tomorrow (20/12/18, 10.30am) 

This means that the entire S3 in Lubusz Voivodeship will be a full expressway (excluding Cigacice bridge) :banana:


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## Kemo

MichiH said:


> What's about the 4km section from Mnichow to Jedrzejow. Will it be opened in the next days or in 2019?



It will be opened soon, but without the final layer of asphalt.
So it will be partially closed again when better weather comes in order to finish the construction works.

_______________

The first section of S16 (officially signed as such) was opened today near Olsztyn.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/direc...0.5646;53.7867,20.5910#map=15/53.7831/20.5778


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## sponge_bob

I estimate that Poland is now neck and neck with the UK for total length of Motorway road network. This official figure of 3700km in the UK does not include NI and also note the UK has a lot of non motorway designated dual carriageways that are sometimes as good as any motorway and are not counted in the 3700km figure.


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## Erkaesowiec

S17 Kurów - Skrudki



Maximus2 said:


> *Kurów - Skrudki*





Maximus2 said:


> *Kurów - Skrudki*


And a little bit more pics:
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=155118294#post155118294


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## Kemo

Today a contract has been signed for the remaining section of *S1*9 _Via Carpatia_ motorway between Lublin and Rzeszów.

It took 13 months between opening of the bids and signing the contract...


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## Rombi

Cool, but it's not actually last remaining section because from w. Sokołów Małopolski Północ to w. Jasionka there is 2x1 expressway at least according to http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/


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## Kirt93

^^ This part is a 2+1, actually. This will need to be amended to 2x2, but for the moment it's good enough. So the fragment from Kemo's post is indeed the last remaining section to form a good-for-now expressway connection between these two cities.


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## metacatfry

Kemo said:


> Today a contract has been signed for the remaining section of *S1*9 _Via Carpatia_ motorway between Lublin and Rzeszów.
> 
> It took 13 months between opening of the bids and signing the contract...


Hopefully the bids include indexations to labour cost inputs. Otherwise the winning contractors will likely have chosen a too low price, and that very often leads to attempts to renegotiations midway through, with work stoppages and opening delays to follow.
Most contractors on the Polish stock market are unprofitable now due to lack of foresight and aknowledgment of rising labour costs.


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## sponge_bob

metacatfry said:


> Hopefully the bids include indexations to labour cost inputs.


They were double whammied because Diesel costs have risen a lot from 2016 to 2018. Really it would be fair would need to index against diesel and labour costs.


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## SRC_100

^^
^^
This is BUDIMEX, so I suppose they are sure the price they offered is enough to complete the project in proper deadline.


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## MichiH

> Western Ring Road in Warsaw





> Warsaw Western Ring


I think you mean S17 east of Warsaw?


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## Tonik1

Also rumours about so called "big Warsaw beltway"/bypass of Warsaw metropolitan area, appeard in the media, cost is estimated at 15b PLN-around 4b euro.

http://wgospodarce.pl/informacje/58432-duza-obwodnica-warszawy-moze-kosztowac-15-mld-zl


https://www.rp.pl/Budownictwo/301069959-Rzad-troche-ulzy-budowlancom.html










possible variants of beltways
S10 near Płock
CPK-planned new Central Polish Airport


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## sponge_bob

Tonik1 said:


> Also rumours about so called "big Warsaw beltway"/bypass of Warsaw metropolitan area, appeard in the media, cost is estimated at 15b PLN-around 4b euro.


I was wondering in here before about how long Poland could realistically go on without a ring motorway for the Silesian City area (certainly a spare A4) and for Warsaw. 

This Nowy Variant inside the DK50 is about the right distance out.


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## ChrisZwolle

Maybe Madrid can be an inspiration


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## rakcancer

Tonik1 said:


> Also rumours about so called "big Warsaw beltway"/bypass of Warsaw metropolitan area, appeard in the media, cost is estimated at 15b PLN-around 4b euro.
> 
> http://wgospodarce.pl/informacje/58432-duza-obwodnica-warszawy-moze-kosztowac-15-mld-zl
> 
> 
> https://www.rp.pl/Budownictwo/301069959-Rzad-troche-ulzy-budowlancom.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> possible variants of beltways
> S10 near Płock
> CPK-planned new Central Polish Airport


I am wondering how would be possible to design something going through Puszcza Kampinowska as it is in one of the variants. Otherwise that entirely new project, apart from cost it would make most sense.


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## rakcancer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Maybe Madrid can be an inspiration


Spaghetti.


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## db84

>





rakcancer said:


> I am wondering how would be possible to design something going through *Puszcza Kampinowska* as it is in one of the variants. Otherwise that entirely new project, apart from cost it would make most sense.


:lol:

The town's name is *Kampinos*. The adjective forms are *kampinoski, kampinoska, kampinoskie* ...

Funny, how many Poles are uncomfortable with _-oski_ suffix, thinking that _-owski_ would sound more… sophisticated, I presume.


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## dominobb

MichiH said:


> I think you mean S17 east of Warsaw?


Yes, exactly.



rakcancer said:


> I am wondering how would be possible to design something going through Puszcza Kampinowska as it is in one of the variants. Otherwise that entirely new project, apart from cost it would make most sense.


This variants presented on a map are only "journalistics projects", not official.


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## Proterra

rakcancer said:


> Clear shift to the East. Huge push to finish S19. S6 and S10 left behind. Nice surprise: finish of Warszawa ring with S17 and also S1 between Myslowice and Bielsko-Biala.


Yeah, it does make me wonder how they would like to tender the S19 in Podlaskie this year if the DŚU isn't even taken care of there.



Tonik1 said:


> Also rumours about so called "big Warsaw beltway"/bypass of Warsaw metropolitan area, appeard in the media, cost is estimated at 15b PLN-around 4b euro.
> 
> http://wgospodarce.pl/informacje/58432-duza-obwodnica-warszawy-moze-kosztowac-15-mld-zl
> 
> 
> https://www.rp.pl/Budownictwo/301069959-Rzad-troche-ulzy-budowlancom.html
> 
> 
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> 
> possible variants of beltways
> S10 near Płock
> CPK-planned new Central Polish Airport


Shouldn't Grodzisk Mazowiecki read "Zyrardów" instead?

Also, a motorway through the National Park? The spirit of Szyszko really still is alive and kicking...


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## dominobb

Proterra said:


> Yeah, it does make me wonder how they would like to tender the S19 in Podlaskie this year if the DŚU isn't even taken care of there.


But we have applications for this decisions (Białystok - Ploski, Ploski - Chlebczyn). After their release, the tenders can be announced.


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## Warsaw spectator

Tonik1 said:


> ]
> 
> 
> 
> A2 from Warsaw to Łodź will be also expanded to 3 lanes (from Konotopa to Pruszków it will be 4 lanes in each direction)
> 
> http://radioszczecin.pl/serwis_informacyjny/pliki/2019/thumb_800_0/2019-01-03_154652727510.jpg


seems to be a great waste of money until drivers learns how to use the right most lane..


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## RipleyLV

Just a random question: what is going on with the Wałcz town bypass (S10)? It has been on ssc.siskom map marked as U/C for quite a time.


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## SRC_100

^^
Delayed, construction still ongoing...

Some picture latest form Decembar and January:























































source: contract website

source: fb


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## Luki_SL

^^The finish of Wałcz bypass construction is suppossed in the middle of the year,


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## Chris80678

We shall see. It mostly depends on the weather as do many road openings after this winter


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## Kemo

Maybe someone would like to enjoy a drive on S1 through the eastern part of the Silesian Metropolis (or Metropolitan Association of Upper Silesia and Dąbrowa Basin to be precise) 

Map: https://www.openstreetmap.org/direc...9.1684;50.4538,19.0548#map=10/50.3262/19.1533

Most of this road was built over 35 years ago so it looks a bit time-worn and doesn't live up to modern motorway standards.
From 0:00 to 1:30 it is signed as S1 and has motorway characteristics. But it feels a bit obsolete when compared to modern motorways.
From 1:30 to 2:10 it is a regular DK1 "Gierkówka" type road. A tender for upgrading it to motorway standard is planned for this year.
From 2:18 it is a single-carriageway expressway, opened in 2006. A contract for construction of 2nd carriageway was signed recently.




(The video includes my proposal of signage)

More driving videos from Polish roads: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClG0zXxUE1fMqHjo4kr6DhA


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## PovilD

Kemo said:


> (The video includes my proposal of signage)


I want to express my opinion on Polish motorway/expressway signage.
Current Polish experimental motorway signage is generally OK. Only two things that bothers me in design is big overhead signage at exit lane and misuse of junction symbols.

In my proposal, big overhead signage at exit should be reduced only to destinations pointing at exits without additional arrows unless the junctions is with another motorway/expressway. Kinda like German standard as far as I know. Junction symbols should be used as it is in Czechia, Germany and some other nearby countries.

Another thing is why the junction name sign should be at 3000 m before junction? I kinda understand why is like this on motorways (1500 m and 500 m advance signs), but at expressways (only 500 m advance signs) the junction name sign could be closer to the junction (1000 m or 1500 m).

Your proposal is okay, although it lacks colorfulness to me  Also, I tend to like the prefix standard for grade-separated sections, which your proposal doesn't include, although I understand why  Some neighboring countries doesn't also use prefixes on motorways


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## Kemo

The main thing that bothers me in current signage is the lack of information.
You get these huge overhead signage (as you mentioned) but most of the space is just wasted.

Like here:
https://www.google.pl/maps/@52.8625...w=203&h=100&yaw=38.76481&pitch=0&thumbfov=100

Why only Gdańsk? Who don't add Bydgoszcz and Grudziądz if there is so much space on the sign anyway?

Same here:
https://www.google.pl/maps/@51.8811...4!1stNfF0N-MI07iXW3m9mufSA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
The A1 motorway goes through Toruń, but there is absolutely zero mention of this city on the directional signage. Same for Włocławek.


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## ChrisZwolle

I don't think sign space should dictate the number of destinations, but a signage plan / route destination tree. Otherwise the signed cities would change according to the sign size. 

I would place the numbers either on top or between the arrows, not before the destination.

The arrow design and horizontal bar are also elements open to discussion in my opinion.


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## PovilD

Agree with opinions above.

My general concern about Polish signage is too much space for signing destinations at exit lane when a bit less space for signing destinations could do the work just fine  Putting route numbers above or between the arrows would let the sign use even more efficiently.

Additionally, the arrow sign bellow the strip is too small. The best option, in my opinion, is to remove the stripe and enlarge the arrow a little bit  Of course, remove the additional (longer) arrow.


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## dominobb

Green - tenders for build/design&build to be announced this year - national routes extensions.
Red - under construction or design&build contract signed (design phase) or design works - national routes extensions.

Total cost (green signs) - 1,5 bln PLN (350 mln euro)


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## Eulanthe

I drove from Wrocław to Warsaw yesterday and back. 

Morning was fine, no problems on the A2 (it wasn't busy, even at 8:30am when driving between Pruszków and the junction for Wola on the S8). 

Afternoon - disaster. There was a very sudden snowfall in Warsaw, and as a result, the S79 was crawling at around 20km/h. Most of the S2 was crawling at around 10-20km/h all the way to the A2, then between the start of the A2 and Nieborów, traffic was going no more than 30km/h. Plenty of accidents, then after Nieborów, there were still areas where the motorway had completely iced up. The A1 was also iced up on the left lane, but thankfully the S8 was clear most of the way.

I had real issues driving on the A2, many cars were sliding around, I nearly crashed after hitting one patch of ice at 70km/h, I was really struggling between Warsaw and Nieborów to keep the car straight, and it was just a really bad situation with the ice. Some junctions were also blocked because of trucks sliding into barriers. 

In the end, counting half an hour break to sleep because I'd had enough, it took me 6 hours and 30 minutes to get from Ochota to Wrocław.


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## Kpc21

I live several km from the A2 (between Łowicz and Łódź Północ junctions, nearer to Łowicz) and I can confirm that it was slippery on roads in the evening.

Although I was crossing DK14 on that evening on a bus and it didn't seem icy. Local roads did and were.

But with high traffic on the A2, sending salt spreading trucks to remove the ice was probably impossible. They wouldn't bring much effect moving so slow.

There are also meteo warnings against ice for today's evening.


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## Chris80678

Will the old DK5 between A2 (Komorniki interchange) and Steszew be re-numbered as a gmina road or left as a road with no number?


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## ips_on

It will probably become a provincial road, as for ex. old DK3 became.


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## EnterName

Chris80678 said:


> Will the old DK5 between A2 (Komorniki interchange) and Steszew be re-numbered as a gmina road or left as a road with no number?



This road between Lipno and Rawicz (due to official opening of S5) was named 309 and I think it's logical to keep this number up to Stęszew. I think most possible decision is to mark old 5 as 309 from Poznań Komorniki or maybe even from Rondo Kaponiera in Poznań. This way all Głogowska street would change number from 196 (it's illogical IMO) to 309. Less possible, but still making sense, would be to change 5 to 309 up to Stęszew and then call it 32 (>Zielona Góra). It's possible this will be county or gmina road (as old 5 to Gniezno), but as I see it - not desirable, especially with the kind of traffic we'll still got there.


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## Chris80678

Thanks for all your answers guys. I'm sure residents of Stęszew and Komorniki would rather traffic on DK32 go onto S5 at the Stęszew exit (when it is finally fully opened that is); and bypass it on S5 to get to A2 or S11. They wouldn't want another DK road (32)running through their towns


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## Erkaesowiec

S17 Warszawa - Kurów



AndyB66 said:


> Widok na WK-1 w km 39+417





AndyB66 said:


> WS-5 - widok na drogę obsługującą P14 w km 30+143
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## Surel

What will go through it? Local road, bio-corridor?


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## Kirt93

Wildlife crossing


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## sponge_bob

http://www.worldhighways.com/catego...ers-worth-46-billion-to-be-announced-in-2019/



> 22/01/2019
> Poland’s General Directorate for National Roads and Motorways* (GDDKiA) will announce tenders worth around €4.64 billion for construction of around 435km of roads* this year.
> 
> Included will be *172km of the S19 expressway in Podlaskie and Podkarpackie, a 60km stretch of the S7 expressway in Mazowsze and Malopolskie and a 50km section of the S11 expressway in Zachodniopomorskie.*
> 
> Late last year, a Polish parliamentary commission said that it had heard that €11.14 billion of road investment within the 2014-23 programme of upgrades had yet to be tendered.


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## rakcancer

Surel said:


> What will go through it? Local road, bio-corridor?


It will look similar to that one. Squirrels and deer on the top, cars on the bottom...


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## Luki_SL

Motorway A1, Knurów - wildlife crossing. Nowadays there is much more trees above


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## Surel

^^
I see, I didn't ge why were there 3 tubes.


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## Kemo

3 tubes is nothing. On S5 near Bydgoszcz, there is a monstrosity with 6 tubes under construction.


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## Chris80678

This week there was a minor road opening (DW 780 - Babice and Wygiełzów 5km bypass in Małopolska). The total investment cost is over PLN 21 million.
Until the opening of the bypass, transit and local traffic was mainly carried out by provincial roads DW-780 (west-east direction) and DW-781 (north-south direction), which run through the centre of Babice and Wygiełzow, and the main problem of residents and drivers was the intersection of the CC -780 and DW-781 located in the centre of the village. Due to the close development of Babice, it was not possible to reconstruct the intersection, and limited visibility led to frequent road accidents.


Article (in Polish) about the opening here: 

https://www.rynekinfrastruktury.pl/wiadomosci/drogi/kierowcy-pojechali-obwodnica-babic-65833.html

A short YouTube video of the road here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncd5bQBy8BM


These minor road openings are just as important as the major motorway expressway openings in Poland which are yet to come in 2019


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## metacatfry

I'm not a big fan of the way Poland builds these individual bypasses for villages of 1000 people. There are probably many thosands of places like that, if each one gets a bypass for 20 million that will cost 20 billion zl for the whole country. for that kind of money you could likely build a more holistic local traffic road network that doesn't zigzag all over the place. What's needed is a masterplan for each voivodeship where a network of rural roads carry most traffic, at a distance from the villages.


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## Proterra

metacatfry said:


> I'm not a big fan of the way Poland builds these individual bypasses for villages of 1000 people. There are probably many thosands of places like that, if each one gets a bypass for 20 million that will cost 20 billion zl for the whole country. for that kind of money you could likely build a more holistic local traffic road network that doesn't zigzag all over the place. What's needed is a masterplan for each voivodeship where a network of rural roads carry most traffic, at a distance from the villages.


That would take many decades - you have no idea how protective Poles are about their land, and eminent domain laws aren't that strong here. And getting the heavy traffic out of the centres of small towns is right now the most important.

Also, we're probably talking one- or two hundred of these bypasses, as they primarily apply to roads classified DW, and occasionally DK which go through heavily built-up areas. The majority of Polish villages of say; 2000-10000 people, don't lie on intersections of busy voivodeship- or national roads.

Nevertheless, better spatial planning at a voivodeship level would still be a great idea.


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## metacatfry

I think you are probably right about the land acquisition problems.

I'm concerned about the forward development of traffic and how the continual growth does not seem to be a part of planning. Instead every new bypass seems to be a reactive action based on traffic reaching a pain threshold. Now being intelligent people we are able to look at past development and trying to foresee future developments.

As an assumption, much of the medium distance traffic on the new bypass probably travel parallel to the A4 to avoid toll. As traffic grows will conditions start to call for bypasses in all the tiny villages along 780? Probably Babice is the worst point today, but I don't think it is unreasonable to fear that at some point in the future conditions will become just as bad further along requiring another bypass and another.

This mode of operation will result in a very expensive local road network. Better to make a plan for the future, delay investments until you can afford a big bang new road, either along the entire road, or alternatively use them for incentivizing traffic to use A4 or dk44


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## metacatfry

Actually looking at DK44 that road looks no better with regards to going through millions of little villages, it seems to me there will eventually be a need for a new road parallel to the Vistula in the area, and that will be a better solution in the long run than building lots of bypasses.


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## rakcancer

Bear in mind that S52 - parallel to A4 is planned in the future. That would make any new road like new DK44 be just an unfulfilled wish.


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## Kemo

8.6 km of S16/S51 motorway between Olsztyn Jaroty and Olsztyn East will be opened tomorrow.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/53.7448/20.5381

The missing link between Olsztyn South and Olsztyn Jaroty will be opened in Spring.


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## Kpc21

Building a new road parallel to the A4 between Katowice and Cracow is forbidden by the A4 concession contract.


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## Luki_SL

^^ It'll be posible after 2027


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## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> 8.6 km of S16/S51 motorway between Olsztyn Jaroty and Olsztyn East will be opened tomorrow.
> 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/53.7448/20.5381
> 
> The missing link between Olsztyn South and Olsztyn Jaroty will be opened in Spring.


Video of opened stretch here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs8rsvYF_1A


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## metacatfry

How much to buy back the A4 toll concession from the current owners, at a guess? The toll avoidance results in lots of extra traffic on parallel roads. 
I suspect that a lot of this need to upgrade and improve DW 780 and others would disappear if just road users did not have to pay extra to use the A4.
This would save money! Enough to justify buying back the toll concession?
I'm not against tolls but they have to take into account the behaviour of the users and if they will result in added costs elsewhere.


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## Kemo

Indeed, lots of people avoid A4 because of ridiculously high toll and also because of the potentially lost time at toll collection gates.
A4 has about 40k AADT, and the four parallel roads combined have the same amount of traffic.
If they lowered the toll, then the traffic would drastically increase and there would be a need to upgrade this motorway to 2x3.
Of course this is the way it should be done, but... this is not how concession motorways work.


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## Kemo

Driving video from recently opened section of S16/S51






I dpn't get why they even bothered to open this section, since it is unfinished and serves no purpose without opening the missing section, which is scheduled for April.


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## Chris80678

Sure they had their reasons Kemo. Apologies that I've ended up posting same YouTube video as you


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## Kemo

Sorry, I didn't notice. Next time use the 

" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>


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## Chris80678

I'm afraid I don't know how to do YouTube markers. All I did was copy the web address of the video. Please delete my earlier post with the duplicated YouTube video


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## Kpc21

You look at the address: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs8rsvYF_1A – and copy the fragment after ?v= (without those characters): Bs8rsvYF_1A.

Then you type in [ youtube ], paste the copied sequence of character and you type in [/ youtube ]. Without any spaces after [ youtube ] and before [/ youtube ] and without the spaces between the brackets and "youtube".

See, it works:






Quote this post to see how it looks like in code.


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## Chris80678

Thanks for the tip, however, I don't think I'll be posting anything in this forum anymore as I can add no value to it


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## Erkaesowiec

S17

#Lubelska - Kołbiel



Maximus2 said:


> Postęp prac na styczeń 2019
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> - węzeł Lubelska - Kołbiel *40,31%* lub *41,31%
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## dominobb

Roads to be opened in 2019:

A1 w. Blachownia - w. Zawodzie (odc. G) ok. 4,7 km
A1 w. Zawodzie – w. Woźniki (odc. H) ok. 16,7 km
A1 w. Woźniki - w. Pyrzowice (odcinek I) ok. 15,2 km
S3 w. Kaźmierzów - Lubin Północ ok. 14,4 km
S5 Białe Błota – Szubin ok. 9,8 km
S5 Szubin - Jaroszewo ok. 19,3 km
S5 Jaroszewo – Mielno ok. 25,1 km
S5 Maksymilianowo – Tryszczyn ok. 8,5 km
S5 Poznań - Wronczyn ok. 15,9 km
S5 Wronczyn - Kościan Południe ok. 18,9 km
S5 Kościan Południe – Radomicko ok. 15,7 km
S6 Goleniów Północ - początek obw. Nowogardu ok. 19,8 km
S6 Nowogard – Płoty ok. 20,4 km
S6 Płoty – Kiełpino ok. 14,6 km
S6 Kiełpino - Kołobrzeg Zachód ok. 24,1 km
S6 Kołobrzeg Zachód - Ustronie Morskie wraz z budową obw. Kołobrzegu w ciągu DK11 ok. 18 km
S6 Ustronie Morskie - pocz. obw. Koszalina i Sianowa ok. 24,1 km
S6/S11 Obwodnica Koszalina i Sianowa na S6 wraz z S11 od w. Bielice do w. Koszalin Zachód ok. 12,2 km
S7 gr. woj. mazowieckiego/świętokrzyskiego - Skarżysko-Kamienna ok. 7,6 km
S7 Lubień – Naprawa ok. 7,6 km
S7 Skomielna Biała - Rabka Zdrój i DK47 Rabka Zdrój – Chabówka ok. 6,1 km
S8 Radziejowice - Przeszkoda ok. 9,9 km
S8 Przeszkoda - Paszków ok. 11,6 km
S10 Obwodnica Wałcza ok. 17,8 km
S11 Obwodnica Szczecinka ok. 12 km
S17 w. Lubelska - obw. Kołbieli ok. 15,2 km
S17 obw. Kołbieli – obw. Garwolina ok. 13 km
S17 Obwodnica Garwolina - koniec obw. Gończyc ok. 12,2 km
S17 koniec obw. Gończyc - gr. woj. mazowieckiego i lubelskiego ok. 13 km
S17 gr. województw - w. Skrudki ok. 20,2 km
S17 w. Skrudki - w. Kurów Zachód ok. 13,2 km
S51 Olsztyn Wschód - Olsztyn Południe, odcinek między węzłami Ol. Płd. i Ol. Jaroty ok. 4,9 km
S61 Obwodnica Suwałk ok. 12,8 km
DK25 Obwodnica Inowrocławia (łącznik) ok. 4,9 km
DK44 Obwodnica Skawiny, od ulicy Energetyków do włączenia do DK44 poprzez rondo czterowlotowe ok. 2,2 km
DK46 Obwodnica Myśliny ok. 3,1 km
DK50/79 Obwodnica Góry Kalwarii ok. 9 km

=== 490 km


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## rakcancer

Can someone explain what is going on with doubled Bialystok bypass? As I remember the twisted, most northern one was the only option till now. Is the other one a new option or they both going to be constructed?


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## dominobb

This two diferrent variants are being analysed. Only one of them will be constructed.
The southern one is more environmentally complicated, but it's backed by local society and unofficially by the government. The decision should be taken this year (probably this semester).


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## Erkaesowiec

S17 Kurów - Skrudki



Maximus2 said:


> *Kurów - Skrudki*





Maximus2 said:


> *Kurów - Skrudki*





Maximus2 said:


> *Skrudki- granica woj.*


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## Erkaesowiec

Bypass of Kołbiel



AndyB66 said:


> *Obwodnica Kołbieli*:
> 
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## aswnl

Is there somewhere a map of automated speed section-controls on main roads (A, S, DK, DW) in Poland ?


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## Kirt93

rakcancer said:


> Can someone explain what is going on with doubled Bialystok bypass? As I remember the twisted, most northern one was the only option till now. Is the other one a new option or they both going to be constructed?


Adding to Dominobb's answer, the 'new' more natural option is chronologically the original one, actually, which was later (10 years ago) changed to the 'twisted' version for environmental concerns. But the twisted version is in return being protested by the locals. Now the govt will apparently attempt to return to the original version, we'll see how it ends.


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## metacatfry

Will the A1 section bypass of Czestochowa not be opened this year?


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## rakcancer

Kirt93 said:


> ... Now the govt will apparently attempt to return to the original version, we'll see how it ends.


I hope they will return to the original one. It is hard to look at that twisted , in the middle of nowhere bypass


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## Kpc21

aswnl said:


> Is there somewhere a map of automated speed section-controls on main roads (A, S, DK, DW) in Poland ?


If you mean only the section controls, not the usual speed traps...

https://www.google.com/search?q=odc...UIDigB&biw=1356&bih=624#imgrc=AK4ts_vHKDH_6M:

Not sure how up to date those maps are though.


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## Kirt93

metacatfry said:


> Will the A1 section bypass of Czestochowa not be opened this year?


It's Salini building it, so you never know hno:

Right now they're one month (+ one month of winter break) from the original contracted date, and acc. to http://www.a1-rzasawa-blachownia.pl/zaawansowanie-finansowe they are at 50% advancement (and 66% financial advancement). If they speed up then 'driveable' state in 2019 is possible, but also they might decide to quit the contract or GDDKiA might throw them out, both of which might turn out possible outcomes in light of the recent news. Apparently as seen from this map, GDDKiA is not confident about it, especially when we take into account that the map also contains e.g. 2019 opening for S7 Skarżysko-Kamienna bypass - which Budimex might pull off indeed but which they have time up to May 2020 according to the contract - so this shows GDDKiA was not trying to be overly conservative when creating the map imho.


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## Kemo

GDDKiA threatens to kick out the Italian companies from their contracts if they don't stop crying "plz give us more money" and don't resume the construction works.
It concerns Salini Impreglio, Toto Construzioni Generali and Impresa Pizzarotti and their heavily delayed contracts:

S3 Polkowice - Lubin (already 9 months behind originally scheduled completion date)
S5 Poznań - Wronczyn (already 15 months behind originally scheduled completion date)
S7 Chęciny - Jędrzejów (already 16 months behind originally scheduled completion date)
A1 Częstochowa bypass (originally scheduled completion date is in April but there is little chance for this road to be completed this year)
S5 Grudziądz - Bydgoszcz and Bydgoszcz - Szubin (supposed to be completed this year, but there is little progress on these sections)


_____________

Tenders for design & construction of S11 motorway south of Koszalin have been started.










I am not overly optimistic though, because the bids in recent tenders tend to be way higher than GDDKiA's estimates.


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## RipleyLV

As I heard, S61 - Suwałki bypass should be open any time now?


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## Japinta

Probably next month.


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## dominobb

Highways, expressways and bypasses - tenders for build or design&build to be announced in 2019:


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## ufonut

S8 Mszczonow-Warszawa

Photos by *JAKR*


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## Kemo

^^
The construction of concrete pavement has been completed, so I think it is a matter of weeks for this road to be fully opened in 2x2 profile.


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## ufonut

S5 Znin Zachod

Photos by *KrystianBWB*


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## mr.cool

dominobb said:


> Highways, expressways and bypasses - tenders for build or design&build to be announced in 2019:


Will there be any more announced or is the final ones?


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## Luki_SL

^^The won`t be any more tenders I think.


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## Kirt93

^^ ^^ In the announcement https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/31913/W-tym-roku-oglosimy-przetargi-na-ponad-435-km-drog there had been listed (apart from those above):
- two tenders which indeed have been announced in Jan and Feb: S11 Koszalin - Bobolice, and S14 part II,
- two other tenders: S3 Świnoujście - Troszyn, and DK75 Brzesko bypass.

So I guess it's not really clear when exactly those two "now-missing" tenders are going to be announced according to today's plans. Brzesko bypass is a really small section so I would still hope it will make it back to 2019 as it shouldn't be extremely expensive - but it's just a wish, we'll see.


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## belerophon

Kemo said:


> GDDKiA threatens to kick out the Italian companies from their contracts if they don't stop crying "plz give us more money" and don't resume the construction works.
> It concerns Salini Impreglio, Toto Construzioni Generali and Impresa Pizzarotti and their heavily delayed contracts.


We call that a criminal association in germany. But thats not an italian problem alone. A saying goes, behind big money is always big crime. Well Volkswagen decided it might be cheaper to trick and pay a charge than work well in first place. The Bahn lies since many years about punctuality, but pumps billions in big projects who never get ready, this list goes on and on and on. No engineering to be proud of. Just shareholder value if any value at all.


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## Nowax

S7 Lubien - Rabka section



Daro32 said:


> Źródło: GDDKiA


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## Nowax

^^



dominobb said:


> http://skomielna.info/2019/03/08/pi...komielnej-bialej-na-nowo-budowanej-trasie-s7/


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## Kemo

Next week, roadworks will begin on two sections of DK1/A1 between Łódź and Częstochowa: sections *A* and *D*










Section A is already a motorway, but it was built 30 years ago and needs general refurbishment. Interchange A1/S8 will be complemented with missing relations.

Sections B, C, D and E (old "gierkówka" almost-motorway) will be completely refurbished, widened to 2x3 and upgraded to motorway standard.

*A1*: Radomsko – Szczepocice Prywatne 7km (March 2019 to November 2021) – project – map

____________________

Roadworks on widening A2 in Poznań to 2x3 will also begin this month.









Photo by *smar*


----------



## sponge_bob

Salini were looking for more money to finish a motorway in Slovakia too. They were terminated. 

https://ww-w.ndsas.sk/press/spravy/nds-ukonci-zmluvu-so-zhotovitelom-visnoveho

They bid to do it for €400m-€450m and they seemingly wanted at least another €100m.


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## Kemo

Construction of 2nd carriageway of *S10* between Szczecin and Stargard (bypass of Kobylanka) has started.

It will complete the 26 km section of S10 motorway extending east of Szczecin.










*S10*: Kobylanka – Stargard-West 6.4km (March 2019 to October 2020) [2nd c/w] – project – map


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ 1.5 years after they signed the contract? Isn't that a bit long?

>> https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/2689...rugiej-jezdni-obwodnicy-Kobylanki-w-ciagu-S10


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## Kemo

The first 15 months were designated for the design phase and acquiring the construction permit.
It is one of the few examples, where the design phase was actually finished within the specified time... usually it takes several months longer.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It seemed like a long design phase to me, considering it is a very easy project, just a second carriageway with space having been reserved and a few bridges already being long enough to span both carriageways. 

But maybe their design team is understaffed or has a small staff considering the low budget project.


----------



## SRC_100

^^
All arrangements and ZnRID (the building permit) procedure take a relatively long time.


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> It seemed like a long design phase to me, considering it is a very easy project, just a second carriageway with space having been reserved and a few bridges already being long enough to span both carriageways.
> 
> But maybe their design team is understaffed or has a small staff considering the low budget project.


Despite ale the true issues metioned by you it is the procedural aspect of obtaining the construction permit (which includes, among others, reaffirming the environmental impact asessment) which takes the time.

Frankly speaking, the time is similar for simple and complicated projects at the moment.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The 'design & construct' contracts are also common in the Netherlands, but over here they start construction typically within a few months after signing the contract. 

Perhaps obtaining the building permits after a plan approval procedure is more bureaucratic in Poland.


----------



## Luki_SL

The new singage on motorway S61 - Suwałki Bypass, some time before opening 



konradb4 said:


> 1. Jadąc na północ, przed węzłem Suwałki Zachód wiszą następujące tablice:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. A jadąc na południe...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Tuż za węzłem nr 18.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Jadąc dalej na południe, przed węzłem Suwałki Południe jest tak:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6.


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## Chris80678

Good quality signs - well done Polska! :banana:


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## Kpc21

And there is Kaunas instead of the border village!

Well done, GDDKiA


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## EnterName

Too bad no updated names were included. Since 1/01/2022 there must be "Kowno (Kaunas)" on the all signs. But I'm so happy anyway, they didn't went with the border village.


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## Chris80678

EnterName said:


> Too bad no updated names were included. Since 1/01/2022 there must be "Kowno (Kaunas)" on the all signs. But I'm so happy anyway, they didn't went with the border village.


Why must the Polish name of Kowno be used from 2022?


----------



## masages21

I think it’s based on different signage system in Europe. While driving A12 in Germany towards the Polish border you also have signs indicating Warschau (Warszawa) or in Berlin Stettin (Szczecin).


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## EnterName

Chris80678 said:


> Why must the Polish name of Kowno be used from 2022?


It's due to law passed in late 2017 or early 2018 (sorry, I don't remember exactly). Since 1/01/2022 all sings on national roads must be changed, so original names will be replaced with exonyms and original name will be written in brackets.


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## Chris80678

That's going to mean a lot of signs to be changed in Poland and expense

So we shall have for example, Ostrawa (Ostrava), Drezno (Dresden), Lwów (Львів), Królewiec
(Калининград), Minsk (Мінск)

Fortunately Berlin is the same in German and in Polish so no need to change that on signs


----------



## baczek333

We don't really use the name "Królewiec" nowadays, it's only a historical name.


----------



## Chris80678

baczek333 said:


> We don't really use the name "Królewiec" nowadays, it's only a historical name.


So what is the commonly used Polish name for the city of Kaliningrad?


----------



## ryhor

Chris80678 said:


> So what is the commonly used Polish name for the city of Kaliningrad?


It is simply "Kaliningrad".


----------



## Kpc21

And the Russian exclave which borders with Poland is "obwód kaliningradzki".

I don't know why English speakers just copy here the word "oblast" from Russian instead of using the English equivalent.

Because this word "obwód" means in Polish an area which is assigned to a single e.g. polling station (during elections), school (so that kids from this area normally attend this school) etc. How do you call it in English?


----------



## Chris80678

Region


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## Kpc21

So it should be just translated as "Kaliningrad Region", not "oblast" being just a calque from Russian and sounding terrible...

But let's end this OT.


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## Chris80678

My apologies for going OT. As a polyglot who speaks several languages I am intrigued by linguistics

I shall post my photos of highways which I saw during my time in Poland soon


----------



## EnterName

Chris80678 said:


> That's goingredients to mean a lot of signs to be changed in Poland and expenses



Estimated cost of this operation was about 27 mln PLN (~6-6.5 mln EUR). I think it will be slightly higher, since we still install old-type signs and generally MPs and state agencies used to underestimate those kind of processes.


----------



## Kemo

A contract for construction of Wałbrzych bypass was signed today with Budimex, cost about 92 M€.

We will get about 5 km of a (hopefully) scenic 2x2 highway 

DK35: Szczawno-Zdrój – Wałbrzych 5.0km (April 2019 to March 2021) – project – map










This is an interesting case, because the road has been planned for a long time and they even started construction about 20 years ago, but it was never finished. You can see the unfinished road on GSV:

https://www.google.pl/maps/@50.8029...=203&h=100&yaw=28.986294&pitch=0&thumbfov=100
https://www.google.pl/maps/@50.7978...k-no-pi-0-ya129.39397-ro0-fo100!7i8192!8i4096


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## Kemo

S6 near Goleniów - almost completed. Since yesterday both carriageways are opened on a section about 6 km long. (But I'm not sure if the northern one has 2 lanes available)



>


Photos by *sebus*

https://www.openstreetmap.org/direc...4.8986;53.5891,14.8217#map=13/53.5975/14.8573


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## PovilD

baczek333 said:


> We don't really use the name "Królewiec" nowadays, it's only a historical name.


We use Karaliaučius on road signs, Lithuanian name of Kaliningrad, although in spoken language we more often use Russian version name Kaliningrad (lituanized - Kaliningradas).
I more often hear Kaliningrado sritis than Karaliaučius sritis.

On signs, we put foreign city names in slash, e.g. "Varšuva/Warszawa", "Karaliaučius/Kaliningrad". Probably the only country to do so. Alternatively, we also use signs with local and foreign name of the city arranged in two lines, e.g.:
"Varšuva
Warszawa (PL)".


----------



## hammersklavier

Kpc21 said:


> So it should be just translated as "Kaliningrad Region", not "oblast" being just a calque from Russian and sounding terrible...
> 
> But let's end this OT.


Honestly, "Kaliningrad Region" sounds way worse to my ears than "Kaliningrad Oblast" does. Among other things, "region" is a poor translation of what "oblast" connotes here (i.e. a top-level administrative division) -- perhaps closer might be "state" or "province". To me, _oblast_ communicates the essential _Russian_-ness of the place, in a way that other terms do not.


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## Des

I noticed they are building some toll stations between Lodz and Warsaw. Why is toll added years after the highway was completed? I thought usually toll concessions run out and aren't added later.


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## sponge_bob

Des said:


> Why is toll added years after the highway was completed?


Is it to pay for the plan to widen that section?


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## EnterName

The toll stations are planned to be demolished, in any near future there are no plans for any kind of payments for using A2 Łódź-Warszawa, even after the extension.


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## masages21

hammersklavier said:


> Honestly, "Kaliningrad Region" sounds way worse to my ears than "Kaliningrad Oblast" does. Among other things, "region" is a poor translation of what "oblast" connotes here (i.e. a top-level administrative division) -- perhaps closer might be "state" or "province". To me, _oblast_ communicates the essential _Russian_-ness of the place, in a way that other terms do not.




It doesn’t matter after all that much because it’s doubtful that many English speakers would remember names of provinces or regions in different languages. Can you imagine being asked to name Thai provinces in Thai? While talking to friends from the UK, I mostly use the name of a province for Polish voivodeships. I don’t think the differentiation between a region, oblast or a province is crucial in everyday speech. I know that formally German states are called differently in formal speech but once again I haven’t seen many English speakers referring to them as Bundeslaender.


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## Kemo

Des said:


> I noticed they are building some toll stations between Lodz and Warsaw. Why is toll added years after the highway was completed? I thought usually toll concessions run out and aren't added later.



They are not building. They are demolishing the unused toll stations near Pruszków, which disrupted the traffic.


----------



## Kpc21

masages21 said:


> I know that formally German states are called differently in formal speech but once again I haven’t seen many English speakers referring to them as Bundeslaender.


In Polish they are officially called "kraje związkowe" (federal states) but people usually refer to them as "landy" (plural of "land").

However, the American states are called "stany" both officially and unofficially. This is plural of "stan", which is a literal translation of "state" but not in the meaning of a country or a similar object but in the meaning of "condition".


----------



## Kpc21

If it wasn't an April Fool's joke (and it's likely it wasn't...), the northern end of S14 will not be connected to DK91 but only to A2.

What a dumb decision...


----------



## Chris80678

Not that dumb to me. It encourages transit traffic to avoid Lodz via S14 / A2 / A1 / S8 ring


----------



## Kpc21

No, it will push the traffic through Zgierz and Lodz because it will not even have a possibility of entering onto S14...


----------



## Kirt93

Maybe to clarify a bit, the end of S14 will not be connected to DK91 *right now*.

I'm not saying this is not a dumb decision because it is, but it is a much more easily fixable one because the link will have been designed as part of the contract, hence it might get constructed (most optimistically speaking even as a negotiated amendment to the contract) if they come to their senses soon enough.


----------



## Kpc21

You're right.

But the link which will be designed is according to the original version of the contract, before the "optimisations", so it is a 3 km long S14 section to the north from this interchange:










Interestingly, if I remember well, it includes a tram bridge over the road, just before the marked roundabout connecting it with DK91. It is the tram line Łódź-Zgierz-Ozorków, located just along the DK91, on its western side.

But this tram line got closed over a year ago for its bad condition, so building this bridge doesn't seem to be necessary right now...

On the other hand – if this bridge isn't build together with this section of the S14, modernisation of this tram line would become even more difficult than it is now. Even now, the chances it will happen is low because it's too expensive for the municipalities through which it passes – and when extra costs of building a tram bridge over the road will be added to that – it will get yet closer to impossible.

So they may wait with building this section of the road until the tram situation clarifies... But it may not clarify for many years.


----------



## metacatfry

I agree that this is a bad decision. It reminds me of when the A1 was built around Torun, the junction between DK91 (funnily enough) and S10 was rebuilt to be between S10 and A1. Now there is no access to the motorways from the local roads in the area any more.


----------



## Kpc21

And people who use DK91 are forced to go through the center of Toruń instead of using the ring road: A1+DW552... Which was the standard bypass of Toruń, commonly used by drivers, before A1 got opened.


----------



## Kemo

mgk920 said:


> Interesting, to me, is that the original Berlinka (142) will now connect with the upgraded S3 as a spur using a trumpet interchange. Are upgrades for that route on the long-range radar?
> 
> Mike


The DW142 section of Berlinka has been recently renovated and no more upgrades are planned.

Rzęśnica interchange is the last remaining bit of original concrete Berlinka in the Szczecin region. (Well, actually there is still original concrete on the Kijewo interchange but it is already under reconstruction.)


----------



## Kemo

Good news from Via Baltica. Motorway bypass of Suwałki will be opened on Saturday. The road has concrete pavement and was completed with no delays (good job, Budimex)
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/54.0898/22.8979

This will remove one of two major bottlenecks on the Via Baltica route.

Some photos by *konradb4*


----------



## Chris80678

Originally Posted by *kemo*

Good news from Via Baltica. Motorway bypass of Suwałki will be opened on Saturday. The road has concrete pavement and was completed with no delays (good job, Budimex)
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/54.0898/22.8979

This will remove one of two major bottlenecks on the Via Baltica route.

Excellent news :banana::banana::banana::banana:

Where is the other bottleneck? Łomża?


----------



## Kemo

Roadworks have started on another section of "Gierkówka", which will be upgraded to A1.


A1: Szczepocice Prywatne - Częstochowa-North 16.9 km (April 2019 to March 2022) – project – map

Photos by *Tom89*


----------



## Eulanthe

Sponsor said:


> There are no polish exonyms for Hradec Kralove, Svidnik and Harrachov.


Harrachov is Harrachow according to some Polish sources, likewise Svidnik transforms into Swidnik, even according to the Slovaks themselves. Hradec Kralove has some strange name that no-one uses, similarly to Kaliningrad. 

I hope they do as you propose, but I also hope they use some common sense with Slavic names in general and that they don't start using strange things like Złota Góra for Zlaté Hory. 

Incidentally, I've found something interesting - a signin Braniewo where Kaliningrad is marked as if it's in PL. It's the same on other signs too - the RUS symbol is completely absent.


----------



## Kanadzie

Kemo said:


> The DW142 section of Berlinka has been recently renovated and no more upgrades are planned.
> 
> Rzęśnica interchange is the last remaining bit of original concrete Berlinka in the Szczecin region. (Well, actually there is still original concrete on the Kijewo interchange but it is already under reconstruction.)


What was the idea with Rzęśnica interchange? It seems planned to be full cloverleaf, but to the south, there doesn't seem to be any logical road corridor (especially since road to the west veers also south...) Certainly the "autobahndreiecken" of pre WWII time were just normal ones elsewhere...


----------



## EnterName

Sponsor said:


> There are no polish exonyms for Hradec Kralove, Svidnik and Harrachov.
> 
> I hope they will only post names that differ by more than only a single letter. So let's say _Kowno/Kaunas_ or _Lipsk/Leipzig_ would be okay but _Berlin_ or _Ostrava_ would be enough.



Come on, so when the difference is one letter, we shouldn't change, but otherwise it's ok? Two letters? What about letters that are different, but are spelled the same way - sounds reasonable isn't it? But that would mean, we should keep absurd like "L'viv", because it's close to "Lwów". What I'm trying to say, is it's hard to precisely draw this line in law. I think we should just use names according to our xenonyms commission. If those are the same (Berlin) - keep it as it is right now. If those are different, even only by the single letter (Praga/Praha) - let's be consistent and use both. After all, it's only one letter away from German "Prag/Praha"


----------



## Sponsor

Eulanthe said:


> Harrachov is Harrachow according to some Polish sources, likewise Svidnik transforms into Swidnik, even according to the Slovaks themselves. Hradec Kralove has some strange name that no-one uses, similarly to Kaliningrad.


The only source is official list of standarized geographical names. Both Harravchov and Svidnik are popular among polish people for tourism so I can believe there are weird versions like Harrachow but they are not correct. And honestly they look terrible 




EnterName said:


> Come on, so when the difference is one letter, we shouldn't change, but otherwise it's ok? Two letters? What about letters that are different, but are spelled the same way - sounds reasonable isn't it? But that would mean, we should keep absurd like "L'viv", because it's close to "Lwów". What I'm trying to say, is it's hard to precisely draw this line in law. I think we should just use names according to our xenonyms commission. If those are the same (Berlin) - keep it as it is right now. If those are different, even only by the single letter (Praga/Praha) - let's be consistent and use both. After all, it's only one letter away from German "Prag/Praha"


Actually I was thinking about that too. I'm only concerned about how that would look on signs. Our road signs are not really aesthetic and I'm pretty sure it will look even worse with those bilingual names


----------



## Kemo

Kanadzie said:


> What was the idea with Rzęśnica interchange? It seems planned to be full cloverleaf, but to the south, there doesn't seem to be any logical road corridor (especially since road to the west veers also south...) Certainly the "autobahndreiecken" of pre WWII time were just normal ones elsewhere...



I think it was just a regular design for interchanges.


http://www.berlinka.pcp.pl/hornskrug_plan.jpg


You can find similar ones elsewhere:

https://www.google.pl/maps/@51.0209686,16.7531831,683m/data=!3m1!1e3
https://www.google.pl/maps/@51.085722,16.4172849,809m/data=!3m1!1e3


----------



## Proterra

Kpc21 said:


> Although if I remember well, they were present for some time on Google Maps


Grodziec Królowej, Swidnik and Harrachów.

And of course, there's always this gem...


----------



## Kemo

Suwałki bypass with traffic 

Photos by *neglected*
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1609856&page=57



























All the cargo (transported by trucks) from Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia to Poland and other EU countries to the south and west goest through this road:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This temporary end at the roundabout seems to be killing traffic flow...


----------



## Kemo

It is not going to be worse that the previous temporary end at Suwałki-South, where north-south and south-north relations were intersecting...


----------



## Chris80678

Even so, the sooner the S8 from Suwałki North to the Lithuanian border is finished and open, the better. I can't see that happening before end of next year though at earliest


----------



## Kemo

Unfortunately it was awarded to Impresa Pizzarotti, so I can't see that happening in 5 years :nuts:


----------



## sponge_bob

Kemo said:


> Unfortunately it was awarded to Impresa Pizzarotti, so I can't see that happening in 5 years :nuts:


I can see precisely 0 construction north of Suwalki at present. Was this contract not awarded in late 2017?

https://apps.sentinel-hub.com/senti...8-10-01|2019-04-12&atmFilter=&showDates=false


----------



## MichiH

Luki_SL said:


> *13,83* km of S61 (E67) motorway opened in full 2x2 profile today. It`s Suwalki bypass in north-eastern Poland.


It's 1*2*.8km, isn't it?

edit: the 2x2 segment is 12.8km


----------



## Kirt93

sponge_bob said:


> I can see precisely 0 construction north of Suwalki at present. Was this contract not awarded in late 2017?


Yes, it was awarded in (not that late) 2017, precisely early June. And yes, they still didn't get to the 'build' part of their 'design+build' contract. And yes, it is Impresa Pizzarotti hno:

From other news, here's the current construction progress of Impresa Pizzarotti on their three contracts on S5 (data for March):
- section 1. Construction progress: 22,02%, time left according to original contract: 4 months 
- section 2. Construction progress: 28,93%, time left: 4 months
- section 5. Construction progress: 38%, time left: minus 6 months (minus 3 months if excluding winter break).

hno:


----------



## sponge_bob

The fact that these Italian idiots are coming in with suicide bids and trying on these stunts to get more money, at the same time, proves that they are engaging in anti competitive cartel like behaviour. 

They should not only be booted off their projects but they should be investigated as a corrupt bidding cartel and then their asses should be fined into the €100s of millions for it with other bidders against them awarded their bidding costs in these tendering farces, ex gratia. How many millions have been wasted by honest bidders for these contracts.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Italians got a large bridge contract in Denmark, I wonder how that goes. Italian projects also became problematic in Norway and Sweden. Maybe they're not really prepared for these 'foreign adventures'.


----------



## Dusha

Hi all, I am a bit lost.
How the traffic is now organized on the remaining stretch if S8 which is still u/c (South of Warsaw)?

Is it 1 c/w each direction?

Would it make sense to use S8 driving from Warsaw to Częstochowa (and back), or would A2+A1 remain a better option before S8 gets opened (considering traffic conditions on A2 before Łódź and on S8) 

Thank you.


----------



## Kemo

Section Paszków - Przeszkoda is opened in full profile; there is a 60 kph speed limit which nobody respects.

On section Przeszkoda - Radziejowice there is one lane available in direction Piotrków.
I think it makes no sense to drive via A2/A1 at this point.

However, you need to consider the roadworks on DK1 between Piotrków Trybunalski and Częstochowa. If you are going further south it may be a good option to avoid DK1 completely and use e.g. S7 instead.


----------



## Dusha

Kemo said:


> Section Paszków - Przeszkoda is opened in full profile; there is a 60 kph speed limit which nobody respects.
> 
> On section Przeszkoda - Radziejowice there is one lane available in direction Piotrków.
> I think it makes no sense to drive via A2/A1 at this point.
> 
> However, you need to consider the roadworks on DK1 between Piotrków Trybunalski and Częstochowa. If you are going further south it may be a good option to avoid DK1 completely and use e.g. S7 instead.


Tnx for the tip. We will be driving towards Ostrava, will have a look if alternative routes make sense.


----------



## Kirt93

sponge_bob said:


> So they are building half profile either side of the tunnels and full profile tunnels and an intertunnel section, how odd.
> 
> EDIT I see the problem, the S1 is built as a half profile expressway north and south of this section.


Safety regulations forbid to build a tunnel such that the evacuation route would've led thought the same tunnel. So there are only two options:

build the tunnel section already in full profile (2 tunnels)
build the main tunnel as 1+1 profile plus a small pedestrian-sized emergency tunnel
The latter option was, for example, chosen for the Laliki tunnel further west on S1 when it was constructed 10 years ago. This is obviously a cheaper option if one assumes there will never be a need for widening. However if there is a chance that widening will be needed, this would be a wastage, smaller costs now but much higher costs overall. So it's rather a good choice they are building full profile already and don't risk that the emergency tunnel would be constructed in vain.

The adjacent sections are, like you noticed, half profile. The section to the west will probably never need a 2nd carriageway, because the traffic is low and because D3 on the Slovak side is also half profile (and both Slovak and Polish parts go in complicated terrain with large objects involved, so the cost of widening would be very high). The section to the east will probably receive a 2nd carriageway in some not-extremely-distant future, and presumably their idea is that if this happens, then a 2nd c/w will also be added on this fragment of new contract which is now constructed in half profile.


----------



## Kirt93

In a twist more expectations-subverting than the 8th season of Game of Thrones, Impresa Pizzarotti isn't the #2 - after Salini - to go down, it was beat up to it by Rubau. Guess quite few people have seen it coming as early as this. Two contract were cancelled: [Update: Both GDDKiA and Rubau claim they were the first ones to cancel the contracts due to the other side's fault.]

S7 Warszawa-Lotnisko/S2/ - Lesznowola (an exit from Warsaw's bypass towards the south),
S61 Śniadowo - Ostrów Mazowiecka (westernmost section of S61, linking to S8)
Both contracts were Design&Build, S61 was in the design phase (construction project has been overdue by 6 months), in case of S7 the design has been finished so presumably it will be possible to announce a build-only tender.

_______________________________


I'm thinking that since *MichiH*'s list contains


MichiH said:


> *A6:* rededication Szczecin-Dabie – west of Szczecin-Rzesnica 3.6km (April 2020) – ? – map
> *S3:* north of Kliniska – south of Kliniska 2.5km (April 2019 to April 2021) – project – map
> *S3:* north of Szczecin-Rzesnica – west of Szczecin-Rzesnica 1.4km (April 2019 to April 2021) – project – map


i.e. the rededication projects of roads which already technically count as expressways (but don't meet today's standards), it seems to me like it would be OK to also include

*A1:* rededication Tuszyn - south of Piotrków Trybunalski-West 15.9km (April 2019 to September 2021) – project – map

The difference here is that A1 had not been as blatantly substandard as A6/S3, but nonetheless it is now rebuilt to meet today's standards and this is not a mere resurfacing: basically the whole motorway is being torn down, with all bridges / viaducts / overpasses torn down too and rebuilt from scratch. A bit of a borderline case but seems to me like this rather counts by the rules?


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## MichiH

^^ If I'm not mistaken, A6 is not yet dedicated being *A*6 and S3 sections are not yet 4-laned. A1 is already dedicated being A1.


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## Erkaesowiec

S17 


Maximus2 said:


> *Kurów - Skrudki*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Skrudk i- granica woj.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Garwolin - Gończyce*
> Boksy na wolny skład materiałów - OUD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Budynek socjalno-biurowy - OUD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> Pas rozdziału ok. km 53+500


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## Kemo

A6/S3/DW142
New shape of "Rzęśnica" interchange
This is the last bit of old Berlinka with original concrete pavement



marcin346 said:


> Węzeł Rzęśnica 21 maj 2019r


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## pmaciej7

2014/15 <-> 2019

https://goo.gl/maps/kC1XJjHqmfSSu72A7


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## RipleyLV

Hmm, I noticed that the S61 segment from Suwałki to Budzisko is marked as U/C in the ssc.siskom map. Is it though?


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## Kemo

The construnction permit has been issued, so theoretically it is.
But since this contract is realized by the infamous Impresa Pizzarotti, it is not clear if they will even start the actual construction or just simulate the works...


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## Erkaesowiec

S17


AndyB66 said:


> Proszę zapiąć pasy - lecimy!
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> cdn...





AndyB66 said:


> cdn...





AndyB66 said:


> *Skrudki-gr.woj.*:
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More pics: https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=159457537#post159457537


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## hecoxkielce

Tokarnia Interchange (Węzeł Tokarnia), part of S7 section between Chęciny and Jędrzejów. This very part of expressway was opened at the end of 2018, but the contract by itself is still undone. Although the entire 21 km long section is passable, a few kilometers away from this point there are plenty of traffic difficulties. The contract with Salini Impregilo is likely to be broken soon. 

works begun in 2015, should have ended at the end of 2017


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## Kemo

Construction of A1 near Radomsko


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## ChrisZwolle

That is fast. They mean business!


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## Kemo

A2 east of Warsaw





































A2/DK92 cloverleaf interchange









Busy E30 route and Warsaw skyline on the horizon









It's nice that they didn't cut the forest inside the cloverleaf













































A2 near Mińsk Mazowiecki, opened in 2012


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## Kemo

High water level on Vistula river.

There are some losses on construction of S2 bridge in Warsaw

Photos by *Kayak*


















They didn't evacuate the blue vehicle because they couldn't find the keys :nuts:


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## ChrisZwolle

*S17 exit numbering*

So I've noticed S17 has exit numbers #11 for Łaskarzew and #12 for Gończyce. Counting back to the north, that would mean that the Lubelska interchange with A2/S2 will be #1. 

So does that mean that the planned eastern ring road of Warsaw (between S8 and A2) won't have S17 exit numbering? Or possibly a totally different road number?


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## Luki_SL

^^ The ring road of Warsaw will have own exit numbering - with "R" letter - R1, R2...etc.


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## ChrisZwolle

Are there are any such exit numbers already in use on S2 or S8?


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## rakcancer

Then widening A4 to 3 lanes should take place like it is around Poznan and Wroclaw... which should be done long time ago but because of cost of that for private company running A4 between Katowice and Krakow it is not done and it is not going to be.


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## sponge_bob

rakcancer said:


> Then widening A4 to 3 lanes should take place like it is around Poznan and Wroclaw...


That! But the other big problem is redundancy. If there is a serious accident on the A4 (no matter how many lanes) it will clog up all of southern Poland. 

You could offer the concessionaire 2 years extra concession beyond 2027 for every 20km they widen to 3+3 by 2025 and see if they bite. It would cost the state relatively little and would encourage widening the A4 _before_ the road fills up with cars.


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## MichiH

sponge_bob said:


> Well the existing Krakow - Katowice A4 is only within capacity because it is tolled until at least 2027. If the tolls were lifted in 2028 it would be *congested on day one*. It carries just over *40k AADT* now and pulls in €20m a quarter. .
> 
> *It will be at its full capacity of around 60k AADT* around when the toll concession expires, if not before.


I don't think so. It's not that extreme.

First, what's your source for 50% increase?
Second, 60k AADT can easily be handled by 2x2 lanes _(I'm just not sure about the number of interchanges and how much traffic enters and leaves A4 here)_. There are 2x2 motorways in Germany with more than 100k. Sure, they are quite congested... Germany even builds new 2x2 motorways with expected AADT over 60k. I don't recommend Poland doing so but it's just not extreme as you describe.


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## Kirt93

sponge_bob said:


> That! But the other big problem is redundancy. If there is a serious accident on the A4 (no matter how many lanes) it will clog up all of southern Poland.


This is pretty much true for majority of motorways not only in Poland, isn't it? But it will be possible to drive via S1 - S52 - DK(S?)7 in such a situation, which will be some +70 kilometers (so say +40 minutes for a car, plus the traffic jam entering Kraków from the south), plus that there are as many as 3 different national roads, DK94, DK79 and DK44 - though each of them congested already even without additional traffic - which could also be used in addition to S1 - S52. Of course all of the aforementioned roads will be stuck in jams in such a scenario, but it certainly doesn't look like would make it worth investing into yet another S-road in this area. And certainly there will be places in the A/S network when an accident blocking the highway would jam the area even more than here.


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## sponge_bob

MichiH said:


> I don't think so. It's not that extreme.
> 
> First, what's your source for 50% increase?


 That link in my last post. 

https://www.stalexport-autostrady.p...on-motorway-Katowice-Krakow-in-2019Q1/idn:384

Traffic 42k now growing at 3% a year. 3% of 42k is 1.2k so you will be near enough 60k when the road is handed over in 2027. It is much easier to widen these roads and maintain the flow before they are maxed out. 



> Second, 60k AADT can easily be handled by 2x2 lanes _(I'm just not sure about the number of interchanges and how much traffic enters and leaves A4 here)_. There are 2x2 motorways in Germany with more than 100k. Sure, they are quite congested..


Germany is a _crap_ example, they are all shite scared of their green overlords there nowadays and no country with proper long term planning would consider that an interurban 2+2 with a 120kph+ limit can handle over 60k AADT with 10%+ HGV in that mix. At those speeds the limit is 60K on a 2+2 and 90k AADT on a 3+3.

An urban or suburban 2+2 can maybe do it with 80kph limits and closer inter vehicle spacing but not a long distance road. 

Once we go 'autonomous vehicle' on a large scale and these cars will keep their distances better than humans then do a 2+2 will not even handle 60k AADT. I shudder to think of the utter mess that will create in Germany, not that feckin greens would ever care about that, the gobshites.  



Kirt93 said:


> This is pretty much true for majority of motorways not only in Poland, isn't it?


Poland has relatively little E<>W capacity in its planned network, plenty of north south alternatives but not E<>W.

The network pinch points are clearly around Warsaw and Katowice/Krakow where many routes converge onto one. Lodz is the only City where a proper ring road seems to be planned, rather oddly.


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## Grzegorz.Janoszka

Kirt93 said:


> This is pretty much true for majority of motorways not only in Poland, isn't it? But it will be possible to drive via S1 - S52 - DK(S?)7 in such a situation, which will be some +70 kilometers (so say +40 minutes for a car, plus the traffic jam entering Kraków from the south), plus that there are as many as 3 different national roads, DK94, DK79 and DK44 - though each of them congested already even without additional traffic - which could also be used in addition to S1 - S52. Of course all of the aforementioned roads will be stuck in jams in such a scenario, but it certainly doesn't look like would make it worth investing into yet another S-road in this area. And certainly there will be places in the A/S network when an accident blocking the highway would jam the area even more than here.



S52 will never be built and we all know it. There is some hope in railroad modernizations all over Kraków, and especially between Kraków and Katowice. If the trains provide a good offer, I see many people dropping cars and using trains instead.
When A4 will be congested that you will never know if driving home from work will take you 30 minutes or 130 minutes, then you will rather choose more reliable train, even if it takes about 1 hour.


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## SRC_100

Grzegorz.Janoszka said:


> S52 will never be built and we all know it.


No, we don`t!


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## Kirt93

Grzegorz.Janoszka said:


> S52 will never be built and we all know it.


And you guess so because...? If you are talking about Klinowski, then you know at some point he will finally have no higher instance to appeal to, don't you?


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## Grzegorz.Janoszka

Kirt93 said:


> And you guess so because...? If you are talking about Klinowski, then you know at some point he will finally have no higher instance to appeal to, don't you?



There is no visible will do to do. If they really wanted to build it, they would start with ring roads around cities on the way - Andrychów, Wadowice and so on.
Quite soon the economy will turn south (natural cycles plus broken banking) and with so much social as now, there will be no money at all for road building.


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## Eulanthe

Grzegorz.Janoszka said:


> S52 will never be built and we all know it.


I wouldn't be so sure. The problem is the route - pouring extra traffic onto the Kraków southern ring is a terrible idea, and it would make much more sense to extend the S52 to the DK75 instead.


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## Kirt93

Grzegorz.Janoszka said:


> they would start with ring roads around cities on the way - Andrychów, Wadowice and so on.


You have absolutely zero clue what you are talking about, don't you? It's Wadowice ring road where DŚU is being protested in courts by the former Wadowice mayor Klinowski, how would you start with those parts if even as early stage as DŚU itself is challenged and the court hearings are still ongoing? And you're talking about starting construction? :nuts: :nuts:



> pouring extra traffic onto the Kraków southern ring is a terrible idea


Kraków southern bypass is fine, it would only need widening of a very short section, it's the western bypass where you couldn't pour more traffic. How do you pour the traffic from S52 into the southern bypass is problematic, though, DK7 in the current state is at the verge of its capacity.


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## geogregor

sponge_bob said:


> Once we go 'autonomous vehicle' on a large scale and these cars will keep their distances better than humans then do a 2+2 will not even handle 60k AADT.


It will handle much more than today as vehicles could be spaced much closer together once autonomous cars drive in sync.



> I shudder to think of the utter mess that will create in Germany, not that feckin greens would ever care about that, the gobshites.


I know greens are favorite bogyman for many on this forum but utter incompetence of German road authorities are much more serious problem. How long it takes them to tender and execute even simplest project with all the permissions?



> Poland has relatively little E<>W capacity in its planned network, plenty of north south alternatives but not E<>W.
> 
> The network pinch points are clearly around Warsaw and Katowice/Krakow where many routes converge onto one. Lodz is the only City where a proper ring road seems to be planned, rather oddly.


At least in Warsaw they work on proper ring road. On the A4 nothing seems to be happening. Apart from Krakow - Katowice stretch, the sections around Wroclaw also need urgent widening. And west of Wroclaw a total rebuild is needed as what's there is not even close to motorway standard.


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## sponge_bob

geogregor said:


> It will handle much more than today as vehicles could be spaced much closer together once autonomous cars drive in sync.
> .


That, in theory, is how it works once all vehicles are autonomous in a far off future. Not when we have mixed fleets of human/autonomous and they obey the rules of the road more than we do.


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## beschu

sponge_bob said:


> [...] an 'A4 Bypass' section from west of Katowice to East of Krakow perhaps along the DK44 corridor making this an S44 I suspect.


There are currently no plans for making S44 but since decades the Silesian Voivodeship plans to create the "A4 bis" or " A4” " bypass road for the Katowice Metropolis. Sad to say the central government in Warsaw is ignoring this plan.

You can read in Polish about "A4 bis" or " A4” " here: Planie Zagospodarowania Przestrzennego Województwa Śląskiego 2020+". On page 99 you can find the planned route (parallel red lines):


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## Kanadzie

there is good reason for extra east-west motorway here... area is really large and dense population, a new corridor would be shorter distance and more useful for many people.


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## Kemo

Construction permit was issued for the southern section of Kępno bypass - S11 motorway

S11: Kępno (S8) - Kępno-East 3.4km (June 2019 to June 2021) – project – map

S11: Kepno-East – Baranów 3.6km (June 2019 to June 2021) [1st c/w] – project – map


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## Kemo

RipleyLV said:


> Hmm, I noticed that the S61 segment from Suwałki to Budzisko is marked as U/C in the ssc.siskom map. Is it though?


As expected, the contract with Impresa Pizzarotti has been cancelled today.
So unfortunately construction works will not start in this year...


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## RipleyLV

^^ Thanks for the heads up! Are these somewhat good news though?


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## Kemo

Yes, the delay would be much bigger if GDDKiA kept the Italians on the contract... now we have a chance to choose a reliable construction company. It will cost much more money than we originally thought, of course.

____

I don't remember if this information has been posted here. A construction permit was issued for one of sections of S19 _Via Carpatia_ between Lublin and Rzeszów.

S19: Kraśnik-South – Janów Lubelski-North 18.1 km (June 2019 to May 2021) – project – map

This contract belongs to Strabag, which means low probability of problems


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## Kirt93

^^
[edit: Kemo got there first  ] Yes, it's good news. Impresa finished the design phase and obtained a construction permit, so throwing them out at this moment was the best one could hope for. Now it is possible to open a tender for construction only (or possibly optimization of Impresa's design plus construction). Which means only the time of carrying this new tender will be lost, but the time Impresa took for the design is not lost, there is now a valid and approved project thanks to them.

Cost-wise it's bad as the new price will surely be much higher than the original price, but keeping Pizzarotti in the hopes they will finish at the old price would most likely be in vain, it'd only accumulate way more delay and they would need to be thrown out at a later date anyway. 

Also:
- according to the contracts Via Baltica would have been finished in all of its length in late 2021 (in practice it will be later because one of the remaining sections is TOTO), and this Impresa's contract was originally due in mid 2020, so this is by far not the worst section on which it could've happened when taking into account the whole project's final completion date,
- this is a standalone section between existing part of S61 (Suwałki's bypass) and the border, so there's no risk that this delay would make any other section unoperational, it's just that on this section the traffic will need to use the old road for longer.


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## SRC_100

^^


> After repeated calls to the Impresa Pizzarotti company, to signed contract execution, a reliable and in accordance with it on the S61 Suwałki - Budzisko (state border) section in the Podlasie Voivodship, GDDKiA decided to withdraw from the contract with the Contractor of this investment. The company Impresa Pizzarotti, despite the calls from the GDDKiA, did not comply with the contractual provisions.
> 
> There are no specific actions by the Contractor
> 
> The investment was carried out in the "Design and build" system. The contractor developed the documents needed to obtain a permit to carry out a road investment, and such a decision was issued by the voivode of Podlasie on May the 20th this year. However, despite the passage of time, the Contractor was lacking proper mobilization in the field of preparation for conducting construction works - including subcontractors' lists for services and works have not been reported.
> 
> Executive design have not been finalized, and the submitted temporary traffic organization enabling safe construction - it did not have all the opinions required by law, including Police opinion.
> 
> In this situation, GDDKiA decided to withdraw the contract with the Contractor. In the coming months, a tender will be launched to in order to start construction.
> 
> Time lapse provided in the contract for the execution of the entire contract, i.e. design and construction: approx. 70%
> Financial advancement (at the end of May): 2.42%
> 
> On S61, unlike on other contracts.
> 
> The recent contract withdrawals with unreliable contractors on such roads as S3, S5 or A1 concerned a different situation than the one we deal with at S61 in the Podlasie voivodship.
> 
> In earlier cases, the contractors did not perform contractual provisions regarding the execution of construction works, and more specifically their continuation according to the schedule. On S61 Suwalki - Budzisko contractor has not yet proceeded to "visible to the drivers' execution of the contract, ie to conduct construction works, and his omissions regarding the implementation of the provisions of the contract took place still at the design stage and obtaining the necessary permits to properly implement the investment.


source


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## Kemo

Kirt93 said:


> (in practice it will be later because one of the remaining sections is TOTO)


Yes, this contract also has a large probability of being terminated.

So is probably not the end of contract cancelling streak.
There is also Salini's S7 near Kraków (no need to explain)
Energopol's S10 Wałcz bypass (year behind original schedule)


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## ChrisZwolle

By my count there are 7 'Italian' contracts cancelled / withdrawn now;

* 3 contracts canceled, 1 withdrawn on S5
* 1 canceled on S3
* 1 canceled on A1
* 1 canceled on S61

Are there more? What about S7 in southern Poland? That's also a Salini project.


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## Kemo

^^
You can add Salini's S8, which was cancelled a year ago.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Are there more? What about S7 in southern Poland? That's also a Salini project.


If you mean the mountainous section, then construction is going surprisingly well. They may finish it this year.


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## MichiH

How many "Italian" contracts have been fulfilled (with and without delay) in the past years?


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## Kirt93

ChrisZwolle said:


> By my count there are 7 'Italian' contracts cancelled / withdrawn now


There are also two 'Hispanic' ones withdrawn: S61 and S7. But unlike Italians it doesn't seem 100% clear (at least among the forumers) if it's Rubau or GDDKiA more at fault.

And S8 like Kemo said.

Hence, 10 contracts so far...



ChrisZwolle said:


> Are there more? What about S7 in southern Poland That's also a Salini project.


There are three sections of S7 in southern Poland by Salini:
1) Zakopianka. Will be finished in several months, they got some delay but mostly they are doing a good job on this one.
2) Chęciny - Jędrzejów. Overdue by 1 year and 8 months, but probably won't be cancelled, the main route is already driveable on the whole length, with the remaining work they are doing a bit here, then a bit of nothing, then a bit there, and seems GDDKiA decided this is the better course of action than a repeated tender.
3) Kraków - Widoma (incl. part of Kraków bypass). Currently at the design stage. This contract is indeed at very high chances to be cancelled/withdrawn.



Kemo said:


> Yes, this contract [S61 by TOTO] also has a large probability of being terminated.


Fingers crossed for it to also happen after they obtain construction permit.


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## Kemo

MichiH said:


> How many "Italian" contracts have been fulfilled (with and without delay) in the past years?


All Astaldi contracts in the past years have been finished with little or no problems.


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## geogregor

Kirt93 said:


> - according to the contracts Via Baltica would have been finished in all of its length in late 2021 (in practice it will be later because one of the remaining sections is TOTO)


There is no chance in hell of that, and not just because of TOTO.


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## sponge_bob

How long will it take to get another contractor onsite to complete these 'Italian Jobs', there is well over 100km to retender.


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## SRC_100

^^
A1 Częstochowa bypass very soon I suppose.
Others 6-12 months, mayby except S5 next to Poznań.


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## sponge_bob

They will hardly get onsite before next April though.


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## Chris80678

According to Polish forum S17 from Kurów West to Skrudki may fully open to traffic tomorrow


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## panthiocodin

It will be 13km streatch


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## Rysse

Some photos from A2 Lubelska junction - Mińsk Mazowiecki section

















































































































































http://www.a2-lubelskaminsk.pl/


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## Chris80678

panthiocodin said:


> It will be 13km streatch


Indeed it is, a step closer to a full expressway link between Lublin and Warsaw :cheers:


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## Grzegorz.Janoszka

Kirt93 said:


> You have absolutely zero clue what you are talking about, don't you? It's Wadowice ring road where DŚU is being protested in courts by the former Wadowice mayor Klinowski, how would you start with those parts if even as early stage as DŚU itself is challenged and the court hearings are still ongoing? And you're talking about starting construction? :nuts: :nuts:



I am fully aware of DŚU problems around Wadowice. You have to distinguish situations when the government wants to build a road, but has no money for it at this moment. They usually start with ring roads around bigger cities as it is where usually most congestions happen. This is what they did with S17, S8 and are now doing with S11 for example. I understand this approach and agree with it.
In case of S52 there is nothing like that - it is "all or nothing". Which, considering economic issues which Poland will face in 2020-2025, means - nothing. If they really wanted to build the road, they would identify the worst bottlenecks, and piece after piece complete it.






> Kraków southern bypass is fine, it would only need widening of a very short section, it's the western bypass where you couldn't pour more traffic. How do you pour the traffic from S52 into the southern bypass is problematic, though, DK7 in the current state is at the verge of its capacity.



That is a separate issue and it only shows that they just want to show something before the election, not really believing such thing would be ever built.


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## sponge_bob

My personal estimate is that Poland will finish half its planned network by end 2019 or early enough in 2020, 4000km out of 8000km , and will probably manage an average 250km a year of new road openings until end 2023 to get to 5000km. Poland has a smooth planning system by European standards. 

Thereafter, 2023+ Poland will settle into a pattern of 200km a year of new motorway/expressway and _50km of upgrades (to 3+3)_, a year, and that means a 7000km network by 2035 or so. 

I cannot see the entire planned network being finished before 2040 and that is without adding rings of Warsaw and Silesian Bypasses to the overall plan and increasing the planned mileage beyond 8000km to 8500km in future. 

This all assumes Poland does not catch the horrible Western European disease of electing green minority parties before 2040 which would reduce new road openings to around 100km a year and push this overall plan well beyond any 2040 completion.  

It also assumes a huge network retrofit is not planned after 2025 to provide for electric cars and trucks and buses on a large scale. I would think it unwise to widen any roads from now on without adding huge amounts of ducting for power and telemetry uses in future, 8 x 200mm ducts either side, just in case.


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## Kemo

S17 Skrudki - Kurów, opened today



Toye said:


>


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## Uppsala

This is the end of the motorway from Berlin to Warszawa. I know they are going to rebuild it to a normal motorway there. But for the moment it looks crazy 
https://www.google.se/maps/@52.1397...YLCzEmbc24uWlPuCmrSw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=sv


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## mgk920

Uppsala said:


> This is the end of the motorway from Berlin to Warszawa. I know they are going to rebuild it to a normal motorway there. But for the moment it looks crazy
> https://www.google.se/maps/@52.1397...YLCzEmbc24uWlPuCmrSw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=sv


It's already under way, with visible work continuing on a significant distance to the east.

See: https://goo.gl/maps/tMtUi6oyvkYnFZgt8

Also, what are the current plans for the S79 motorway just to the west of this end? There are clearly visible 'ghost' grades at both ends of it.

Mike


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## bleetz

Glad to see Poland not wasting EU funds like Britain (Marshall plan funds in their case) or Ireland did. The latter two are still significantly richer than Poland but are completely third world in many places when it comes to driving. Would choose to drive in Poland over the other two any time already. kay:


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## sponge_bob

Kirt93 said:


> A very interesting spreadsheet was published a few days ago


I forgot to say congrats to you on that wikipedia article I linked a few days ago, it is most excellent. 

I haven't the heart to tell poor Bleetz that Ireland still gets more €€€€ per capita from Brussels, annually, than Latvia does, today that is.


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## bleetz

sponge_bob said:


> I haven't the heart to tell poor Bleetz that Ireland still gets more €€€€ per capita from Brussels, annually, than Latvia does, today that is.


Not sure about Latvia but I sure hope they are getting more € per head than Poland based on the state of their road system!


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## Eulanthe

Trupman said:


> These are going to be huge projects.


And I don't think we'll see them. We really need to at least start building expressway bypasses where possible, so that they can be connected up later.

For instance, a huge bottleneck at the minute on the DK11 route is in Oborniki Wlkp. An S11 bypass there would go a long way to relieving the Poznań-Piła route, particularly during summer.


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## SRC_100

Today GDDKiA announced tender the design and construction of a 13-kilometer S7 section between the Siedlin junction (near Płońsk) and Załuski junction. This is the first of three sections of the S7 expressway Płońsk-Czosnów with a total length of nearly 35 km.










Map of S7 progress on Gdańsk - Warszawa - Rabka Zdrój path.








black - in use
red - u/c
green - tender
blue - tender in preparation
yellow - documentation in preparation

source


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## rakcancer

Error on that map: bypass of Gdansk doesn't exist yet.
Also, nobody even talk about that but what with that section south of A4 around Krakow to Myslenice?


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## geogregor

sponge_bob said:


> To deliver 400km a year, 2019-2028, requires bulking up Gddkia to do all the planning , route selection and contract preparation by END 2025 with the D portions of DB contracts to finish by end 2026
> 
> *I think this may require a 25-40% increase of staff from 2021-2026* only and that this is entirely feasible. A 300% increase in activity would not be feasible in that timescale.


Out of curiosity, do you work in road design? Where did you get those suspiciously precise figures from?


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## sponge_bob

geogregor said:


> Out of curiosity, do you work in road design? Where did you get those suspiciously precise figures from?


I got them from the wiki article I congratulated Kirt93 for...and linked.  

The math is fairly simple. Poland is ALREADY able to (based on a 3-4 year average) process 250km a year to construction. A jump to 400km a year would finish the national plan in around 10 years as long as all the D portions of DB contracts are complete by end 2026 or so. 

Ramping this to 400km, not least with more longer segments tendered of 30km instead of around 20km is clearly well within the institutional capability of GDDKIA albeit with some extra staff to be added as soon as possible. 

We will leave aside other variables for the moment like:

1. The increasing need for widening of the existing network over new build.
2. A recession or 2 between now and 2028. 
3. Whether Poland itself catches the 'green' infestation from German or Czechia in the next few years. 
4. Whether Polish wages rise rapidly making this work far more expensive in the end. 
5. Whether fuel prices rise a lot, back up to 2013 levels, a lot of the input prices are composed of diesel. 

Were Poland building 100km a year like some other countries I would not consider such a ramp possible at all.


----------



## Kirt93

Trupman said:


> Kirt93 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In *2026*:
> 
> S11: whole
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Very ambitious plan considering the fact that currently there is only 90 km completed out of total 550 km projected (source: Wikipedia).
Click to expand...

Yeah, like I've written in the intro to my statistics post, the list is from the official data but my personal opinion is that there's just no chance the reality goes as swiftly as this - yet if I were to personally choose just one entry in the whole list which seems to me to be the least probable, I think I'd agree with you that 2026 for S11 would likely get my vote. (Or 2025 for S16 Olsztyn - Ełk, due to protests.)

Let us even forget for a moment the fact that if one reads the data in all the details, earlier years sometimes have large shares of kilometers for the routes which are to be fully completed later (and hence are listed later in my abridged version). But just focusing solely on the 4 largest projects of 2025 and 2026: whole S11, whole S12, whole S17, whole S19, this is 1750 km of roads, of which some ~250 km completed by 2018, and another ~250 with completion in 2019-2022 timeframe (some fragments of S17 for 2019 already opened). So some 1250 remains, insane number just for those 4 projects.

So my personal uninformed opinion/guess is if we got the 2019-2023 list completed by 2023 (with some delays to 2024), the 2024-2025 list by 2027, and the 2026-2028 list by 2031, I would consider it a job really well done on all fronts. But then we can just as well get some another rapid increase of prices in construction industry (totally possible with more economic left ideas from the govt like it happened now and blew up many of the deadlines right now), or any of the things mentioned by *sponge_bob* in ^^ might happen, and then it all starts to look less optimistic.



sponge_bob said:


> I forgot to say congrats to you on that wikipedia article I linked a few days ago, it is most excellent.


Thank you  It's nice to know anyone has been actually reading it :lol: However the most significant share of thanks must go to *kophew* for the original table https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=140956927&postcount=24 which (with his permission and a link in references, of course) I've been using as a base for the Wiki one. My input is primarily in adding more info and the things which can be helpful for foreigners who come not knowing the network at all to get the idea (like splitting the entries such that a road like S17 with long section fully under development and little happening in other parts, is easily distinguishable from a road which simply is partially done) instead of just raw data with the number of kilometers, plus keeping the Wiki one more or less updated now that kophew got a break - but the original work in getting all those statistics together in the first place is his


----------



## sponge_bob

Shame Geogregor never read it and him a Pole n All.


----------



## Kirt93

rakcancer said:


> Also, nobody even talk about that but what with that section south of A4 around Krakow to Myslenice?


The current road works acceptably well, while constructing a road of S standard (either as upgrade of this one or new one) on this route would be ridiculously expensive. So it's quite a safe bet that from the whole currently planned network this could acutally be the very last section to be built. GDDKiA is also absolutely realistic here: there are 5 contracts intended for the 2019-2024 timeframe (two tenders already started) for constructing two-level interchanges on old DK7 on this section. So obviously they anticipate for it to still carry main traffic for a long time from now.

Personally, I'm not certain if we see an S7 on this section ever. I could imagine that it just always stays in "the plans for the next decade" while old DK7 gradually gets more interchanges, pedestrian overpasses etc., and at some point we get a collision-free road out of it, just not up to S standard due to sharp turns, too steep inclines etc.

Here: 



you can find a nicely sped-up (additionally choose speed 2x, and you have the whole Kraków - Myślenice section in 2 minutes) video of it. If you imagine some crossings to be made two-level, some crossings made right-turn-only (as you could safely do a U-turn on a nearby two-level interchange), traffic lights gone, pedestrian crossings moved to over-/underpasses, acoustic screens where necessary due to houses nearby, this turns out to actually be a fairly nice road. Looks to me like there are much better ways to use the money than spending a tremendous amount of PLN just for the sake of meeting the arbitrary S-class guidelines of how sharp the turns or how steep the inclines can be.



Eulanthe said:


> We really need to at least start building expressway bypasses where possible, so that they can be connected up later. For instance, a huge bottleneck at the minute on the DK11 route is in Oborniki Wlkp.


Yes, and that's actually how S11 is being built. We have (from south to north): Olesno bypass (D&B signed recently), Kępno bypass (under construction), Ostrów Wielkopolski bypass (completed), Jarocin bypass (completed), Poznań western bypass (completed), Piła+Ujście bypass (env. decision should be issued soon), Szczecinek bypass (under construction), Bobolice bypass (under tender), Koszalin bypass (under tender, plus the part towards Bobolice which, I'd argue, would probably not get started that early if it wasn't needed so Koszalin bypass doesn't end in the middle of nowhere).

When those are finished, we easily have 25% of S11's whole length ready just in the bypasses. You are of course correct that some other bypasses are missing, like Oborniki, but overall definitely GDDKiA also came to this same conclusion: that 'build expressway bypasses where possible, so that they can be connected up later' is the correct strategy in case of S11, compared to building it one (whole) section at a time.



sponge_bob said:


> Shame Geogregor never read it and him a Pole n All.


I'm not sure what you're trying to imply here, but I'm pretty certain he has read https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1142261 instead, which is a much more comprehensive source of all kinds of statistics


----------



## sponge_bob

Kirt93 said:


> I'm not sure what you're trying to imply here, but I'm pretty certain he has read https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1142261 instead, which is a much more comprehensive source of all kinds of statistics


He might admit he forgot it if you pushed him.


----------



## Chris80678

It's official - opening of A1 (Pyrzowice-Częstochowa South) tomorrow afternoon (2nd August 2019):

https://dziennikzachodni.pl/otwarci...-otwarta-dla-kierowcow-zdjecia/ar/c1-14318217

(article in Polish only)


----------



## rakcancer

Kirt93 said:


> The current road works acceptably well, while constructing a road of S standard (either as upgrade of this one or new one) on this route would be ridiculously expensive. So it's quite a safe bet that from the whole currently planned network this could acutally be the very last section to be built. GDDKiA is also absolutely realistic here: there are 5 contracts intended for the 2019-2024 timeframe (two tenders already started) for constructing two-level interchanges on old DK7 on this section. So obviously they anticipate for it to still carry main traffic for a long time from now.


So, in that case planned S52 will start from that non-S stretch. I think that would increase traffic a lot and it would make more sense to upgrade and even widen to 3-lanes "S" on that section as the only one south of Krakow.


----------



## Kirt93

^^ You're right, it's quite possible the part from S52 to Kraków would require an S-class alternative route (I don't think they'll go for widening of existing road to 2x3, it's so densely built-up around the road that the compensations for properties could be insane) if it turns out current DK7 can't accommodate the traffic after S52 is done. However, it's only 40% of the section, the other 60% from Głogoczów to Myślenice will probably not have more drastic increases of traffic than the average increase for the country, in 2015 this part was 33'500 AADT which seems still acceptable for a dual carriageway (while Kraków - DK52 40'000, so adding average traffic increase and adding increase from S52, this might no longer be acceptable indeed).


----------



## MichiH

Any news on the fully opening of the S8 section southwest of Warsaw?


----------



## Kemo

Nope. The southbound carriageway is still not fully opened. I don't know what are they waiting for.


----------



## Chris80678

Any news on the fully opening of the S8 section southwest of Warsaw?

Nope. The southbound carriageway is still not fully opened. I don't know what are they waiting for.

Me neither hno:


----------



## Chris80678

DEL


----------



## Kemo

Map update


----------



## SRC_100

*Today GDDKiA announced tender the design and construction 12 km of following section of S7 between the Załuski and Modlin junction. This is the second of three sections of the S7 expressway Płońsk-Czosnów with a total length of nearly 35 km.*










source










*
Today GDDKiA again announced a tender for the construction of the S61 road on the section Suwałki - Budzisko (border with Lithuania). As a reminder, this section was previous carried out by infamous Impresa Pizzarotti company. Due to lack of progress, the contract was terminated.*










source


----------



## rakcancer

In the meantime google is showing part of freshly opened A1:


----------



## rakcancer

... and now whole stretch is shown.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

... but you can't plan a route across it:


----------



## ufonut

2 by 3s

A2 bypass of Poznan going from 2x2 to 2x3, already some sections seem finished.

Photos by *Maciej Kowalski*




























S17 near Warsaw

Photos by *bronco10*


----------



## Capt.Vimes

ChrisZwolle said:


> ... but you can't plan a route across it:


Google maps is in summer vacation mood. Why use the boring motorway when you can make a nice detour and take a boat ride in Poraj?


----------



## MajKeR_

celevac said:


> Going on a Sunday in August. Not sure about the return trip yet, but the northbound trip has to be on Sunday 25.08.
> 
> So Warsaw weekday traffic is not a problem on that day, but holiday traffic might be an issue I think.
> 
> So, if I understand correctly:
> 1.) Piotrkow Trybunalski can be a traffic jam hotspot because of construction, check situation and use detour if necessary
> 2.) Czestochowa could be avoided by going on the old road, but if it is green on the Google traffic map on Sunday, going through town should be fine
> 3.) If E75 is really full of traffic, E77 Katowice-Kielce-Radom-Warsaw is a good alternative
> 
> Thank you!!


I would not even try to look for an alternative, especially on Sunday and with the Pyrzowice-Częstochowa stretch opened. Traffic through roadworks with upgrading DK1 to A1 is rather fluent, then you might drive faster through A1 and A2 towards Warsaw.


----------



## Kemo

MajKeR_ said:


> then you might drive faster through A1 and A2 towards Warsaw.


There is no point IMHO. A2 is very congested and full of "fast & furious" drivers. S8, on the other hand, offers a more relaxed drive, and it is shorter.

_____________________

Construction permits have been issued for one section of _Via Baltica_

*S61*: Łomża-South – Śniadowo 17.0km (August 2019 to Summer 2021) – project – map

and one section of _Via Carpatia_

*S19*: south of Lublin-Węglin – Niedrzwica Duża 12.0km (August 2019 to June 2021) – project – map


----------



## ChrisZwolle

How is the issue of excessive noise barriers coming along in Poland? In the early 2010s there was a huge amount of noise barriers compared to many other countries, but then they changed policy. How has that played out since? Recent photos by GDDKiA from road projects suggest there may be a little less noise barriers in rural areas.


----------



## bleetz

SRC_100 said:


> *
> Today GDDKiA again announced a tender for the construction of the S61 road on the section Suwałki - Budzisko (border with Lithuania). As a reminder, this section was previous carried out by infamous Impresa Pizzarotti company. Due to lack of progress, the contract was terminated.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> source


This has probably been covered, but what surprises me is that Via Baltica was not built via road 8 from Raczki to Bialystok. This would have saved quite a lot of kilometers and also be better for traffic between Via Carpathia and the Baltics. The Elk - Ostrow section would not have been necessary in that case, certainly not for international traffic but also that part of Poland is not dense at all so probably not local either. As far as I remember, Via Baltica (E67) was supposed to be going via Bialystok. Did they change the route because of environmental reasons?


----------



## SRC_100

^^
No, they didn`t. It was changed +/- 10 years ago due to many reasons eg. to support development of cities like Łomża, Grajewo, Ełk etc., also economical (chosen path might be cheaper).


----------



## rakcancer

S19 supposed to connect Bialystok and Suwalki via Augustow no matter of increasing idea of building S61 via Lomza but there was an 'infamous" battle to keep building Augustow bypass within environmentally protected areas of "Natura 2000" in spite of European Union decision to halt the project. It all ended up with unfinished construction site and cancelling all Bialystok-Suwalki connection.


----------



## Kemo

bleetz said:


> This has probably been covered, but what surprises me is that Via Baltica was not built via road 8 from Raczki to Bialystok. This would have saved quite a lot of kilometers and also be *better for traffic between Via Carpathia and the Baltics.*


Is there even such traffic? :nuts:

The majority of traffic from the Baltics goes in the direction of Warsaw and further towards Germany or Czechia. Białystok is out of the way.

Red color - transit traffic through Poland









This justifies building S16 through Mazury.


----------



## bleetz

Kemo said:


> Is there even such traffic? :nuts:
> 
> The majority of traffic from the Baltics goes in the direction of Warsaw and further towards Germany or Czechia. Białystok is out of the way.
> 
> Red color - transit traffic through Poland
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This justifies building S16 through Mazury.


I never questioned S16 - it will be the main road for the traffic from the Baltics and will be very useful. I questioned whether the planned section Elk - Ostrow (~130km) (on S61) and the planned Bialystok - (south of) Elk section (~90km) could not have been replaced by a single Suwalki - (north of) Bialystok section (~130km). The advantage of reducing the distance between Suwalki and Ostrow by ~30km that S61 brings seems quite small to justify such a new road. The traffic on those roads will be much, much less intensive once S16 is built so this will be a luxury. The economic argument of integrating Lomza and Grajewo to the network does make sense to me but I don't see how your map is a response to what I said.


----------



## metacatfry

Kemo said:


> Is there even such traffic? :nuts:
> 
> The majority of traffic from the Baltics goes in the direction of Warsaw and further towards Germany or Czechia. Białystok is out of the way.
> 
> Red color - transit traffic through Poland
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This justifies building S16 through Mazury.


That's an interesting graffic. where is it from and are there numbers to go with it? When is it from. I am always interested in data about traffic numbers within Poland.


----------



## sponge_bob

2015 UNECE survey data, most likely. Are there any live traffic counters anywhere?


----------



## rudiwien

Not sure if that video was already posted here, from STRABAG on their construction on the A1:






In the meantime, Google Maps routing has improved, though not yet perfect, seems the main carriageway is still a bit disconnected at the start of the new section, so it does do a weird detour 

(https://www.google.com/maps/dir/50....50.5563342,19.1190548,10.5z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0)


Finally, one question - is there a permalink to the map showing the current status of the motorway network (open, under construction, ...)?


----------



## Kemo

rudiwien said:


> Finally, one question - is there a permalink to the map showing the current status of the motorway network (open, under construction, ...)?


http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/
(PL version is updated regularly, EN version about once a month)


----------



## dominobb

Also this map: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/hklowukui4pepx6/mapka-igorsel.png


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## Kirt93

bleetz said:


> Kemo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This justifies building S16 through Mazury.
> 
> 
> 
> I never questioned S16 - it will be the main road for the traffic from the Baltics and will be very useful. I questioned whether the planned section Elk - Ostrow (~130km) (on S61) and the planned Bialystok - (south of) Elk section (~90km) could not have been replaced by a single Suwalki - (north of) Bialystok section (~130km). The advantage of reducing the distance between Suwalki and Ostrow by ~30km that S61 brings seems quite small to justify such a new road. The traffic on those roads will be much, much less intensive once S16 is built so this will be a luxury. The economic argument of integrating Lomza and Grajewo to the network does make sense to me but I don't see how your map is a response to what I said.
Click to expand...

Via Baltica had originally been planned the way you propose, the change into S61 was in 2009. In 2009 there there was no S16 planned, nor were there S5 on the section Ostróda - Grudziądz. (There was definitely a GP DK16 planned from Olsztyn to Mrągowo, but I actually don't know if there were any plans further to Ełk). So at that time the plan was for all the traffic from the Baltics to Germany to go through Via Baltica as well, which surely means the idea of saving 40 km (30 km would be if you count with the detour though Augustów like current DK61, but S61 will be shorter) for all of this traffic was more beneficial.

Nowadays, maybe a bit less beneficial indeed, but it's still a lot of traffic which will save those 40 kilometers: the largest share of transit goes to Germany, but the map also shows a lot of transit to Czechia and/or Slovakia through Cieszyn, and also non-negligible transit to Czechia through Kudowa - both of which can't use S16, so they'll go towards Warsaw as they do today. And still 1/3rd of the traffic on the border crossing is the traffic into Poland - excluding local cross-border traffic, a large share surely goes to Warsaw, and those that go to other cities probably in large % need to go through Warsaw rather than through S16 as well. Add to that the local traffic from Łomża and other towns along DK1, add to that the traffic from Warsaw to Ełk and its nearby towns (which would have no highway connection to Warsaw otherwise). So that's still a lot of traffic which benefits from their route being 40 km shorter. While there's very little traffic which would benefit from the Białystok option, the benefit would be solely financial like you say in constructing fewer kilometers overall, at the expense of majority of the users driving longer routes every day. Still, I think it's an interesting thought, if S16 and eastern S5 were already in the plans in 2009 when the shape of Via Baltica was decided, would it still be decided the same or not.


----------



## sponge_bob

Is that official 'driven' or "SCRIM" road condition data because it really isn't bad if accurate. Many western european networks are no better.

A lot of the crap bits are still building sites where Italians got the boot early this year.


----------



## Kirt93

^^ No, it's unofficial, created based on opinions of SSC users who drove them. If it was cited here for users not familiar with it, I guess it's beneficial to add the citation of photos which serve as a 'guideline' for what condition of a road should be marked as what colour, cause looking at them allows to quickly align yourself with what conditions the map describes:



Superkot634 said:


> *Map: http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/mapa-nawierzchni/mapa-nawierzchnia.png *
> 
> *GREEN*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *YELLOW*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ORANGE*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *RED*





sponge_bob said:


> A lot of the crap bits are still building sites where Italians got the boot early this year.


The parts where reconstruction (including construction of new highways if it's done in place of the old road) or renovation is ongoing - or, in case of post-Italian contracts, not ongoing - are marked blue on this map, hence they don't actually have any "proper" colour assigned. So if there was no blue, there would actually be a bit more of yellow/orange/red on this map (e.g. the long sections of reconstructing DK1 into A1 from Piotrków to Częstochowa, which was already deteriorating at very fast rates before the reconstruction).


----------



## sponge_bob

Kirt93 said:


> ^^ No, it's unofficial, created based on opinions of SSC users who drove them.


It it a  Mapillary spinoff??


----------



## Eulanthe

sponge_bob said:


> This will probably make Lodz the first city in Poland with a motorway grade full ring road won't it?? Krakow might be next ........if Salini were not involved.


Depends if you count Gdańsk or not - the S6/S7 does circle the city, after all. 

It's an absolute joke that some cities are getting full blown motorway/expressway ring roads and others aren't. Wrocław and Poznań both need them - in the case of Poznań, there isn't even an effective way to go between the A2/S5 and the S11 in the north. On the other hand, in Wrocław, the Eastern bypass is 2 lane for most of its length, and the extensions are being held up endlessly. Wrocław badly needs the S/SE part of the ring to be completed, but...


----------



## Eulanthe

x-type said:


> -toll stations. They are pain in the ass everywhere, but there is some curse with them in PL. Barrier near Toruń is always crowded as far as I see on Google traffic. Similar think with that one between Katowice and Krakow. There is obviously something with way of organization because traffic is really fluid, no slow downs, but there is mess on toll barrier.


They're just too small, combined with a total lack of imagination on how traffic can be organised. For instance, all mainline barrier tolls should have a physically separated ViaToll/ViaAuto lane starting 2km before the toll station so that traffic can get through the toll barriers. Instead, they have to queue up with everyone else until the toll plaza. We really need huge French-style plazas instead of toll plazas designed for obscure exits on the Croatian A1 where no-one exits  

Katowice/Kraków was a stupid design from the beginning - it would have been better to charge 20zł at the beginning regardless of distance travelled. The two toll barriers charging 10zł each is just pointless.



> -Too many McDonald's type rest areas. Not my cup of tea. But this is really subjective because I like proper caffe bar with normal restaurant or snack bar, not the hype one where you fight with 57 kids around you to get your piece of beyond meat in paperbox and 53 g of sugar in sparkling water, again in paperglass.


Yup, agreed. It was an absolute travesty to have McDonald's and similar as the only restaurant option on our roads. What should have been was two options - one cafe-restaurant type place, and one fast food place. It's also a huge problem that there are long sections of road without any proper food options - though thankfully, private operators are starting to build them next to junctions. For instance, next to the S5 in Dębno Polskie, you have two petrol stations with large cafe-restaurants.


----------



## MajKeR_

Eulanthe said:


> They're just too small, combined with a total lack of imagination on how traffic can be organised. For instance, all mainline barrier tolls should have a physically separated ViaToll/ViaAuto lane starting 2km before the toll station so that traffic can get through the toll barriers. Instead, they have to queue up with everyone else until the toll plaza. We really need huge French-style plazas instead of toll plazas designed for obscure exits on the Croatian A1 where no-one exits


They're useless as smarter nations have vignettes or, instead, oficially toll-free motorways, not non-oficially as in Poland, named 'expressways'.


----------



## Stuu

Eulanthe said:


> We really need huge French-style plazas instead of toll plazas designed for obscure exits on the Croatian A1 where no-


Hopefully you could find a way to avoid the situation in France where there is an enormous queue because certain nationalities insist on queueing for the cash only lanes, ignoring the 10 other lanes for cards! Not that I'm bitter about the five hours of my life that cost me a couple of years ago...


----------



## sponge_bob

Stuu said:


> Hopefully you could find a way to avoid the situation in France where there is an enormous queue because certain nationalities insist on queueing for the cash only lanes, ignoring the 10 other lanes for cards! Not that I'm bitter about the five hours of my life that cost me a couple of years ago...


That is around a 30% EU wide problem because there is no easily obtained 'Eurotag' that will work everywhere at tolls in the EU or even all across Schengen. If you could have a phsyical Eurotag then you could also have a 'virtual eurotag' prepay system that would use ANPR to allow cars through if prepaid first. Or else you can mix both. ANPR can also be used to validate Vignettes. 

That much alone would reduce queues at cash lanes by around 70% Schengen wide at busy periods. There are 2 particular weekends a year that are really bad in France but this has been the case since the 1960s. All Poland can do itself, to manage a situation like that, is not to close all the schools on the same day as the Czechs and Balts for example, like Germany does. In France and the Engalnd you have single school closing dates for the territory, accompanied by a wave of humanity on the roads.  

It is no longer a national or 'cultural' issue, technology surely can work if used properly on an EU wide basis.


----------



## Kemo

MichiH said:


> But I asked about the S10 segment between Torun (A1) and the ring road. Why is it included to the ring project?


I guess because it is at the same level of preparation (i.e. the absolute beginning) and these projects are somehow connected, so they included it to hit two birds with one stone. 

btw
*DW631* was actually opened on 30th August 



Superkot634 said:


> *Unfortunately. National roads and provincial roads are often in poor condition. Some sections can only be overcome by off-road car...
> 
> *


Sure. Even if the map was 100% green, you would still keep repeating th statement.
I made several thousands kilometers on DK and DW roads lately and I think ~80% were in good condition. I guess I was lucky?
(Check out my youtube account for driving videos  )



Eulanthe said:


> We really need huge French-style plazas instead of toll plazas designed for obscure exits on the Croatian A1 where no-one exits


Nope, we need to demolish these abominations and step into the 21st century.


----------



## Kemo

Several construction permits for motorways have been issued recently

*S7*: Szczepanowice – Widoma 14.0km (September 2019 to May 2021) – project – map

*S7*: Strzegowo - Pieńki 22.0km (September 2019 to May 2021) – project – map

*S7*: Pieńki – Płońsk-North 13.8km (September 2019 to May 2021) – project – map

*S61*: Koniecki Małe - north of Stawiski 17.0km (September 2019 to June 2021) – project – map


Which means that soon, we will have three more large construction sites: S61, S19 Lublin - Rzeszów and S7 north of Warsaw.


----------



## Kanadzie

Having toll barriers with people inside is crazy. I don't think this can survive very long as Polish workers surely will be too expensive for this.


----------



## o.szydzyk

celevac said:


> Then further north-east, things went on smoothly until Zambrow exit. The rural roads via Lomza to Augustow were not really that much fun to drive on at dusk, busy and partly in bad shape.


I cannot understand why on earth people take Lomza road from Warsaw to Augustow these days.

Road via Bialystok is far better and much more pleasant to drive, while driving time is almost the same.

From Warsaw to Augustow via Lomza you have 259 km in total, of which only 130 km (Warsaw - Zambrow) is S-class road, while other 129 km is a narrow, pain-in-the-ass and danegerous part, with construction works in progres, going through small towns and villages. Through Bialystok though, there is 284 km in total, of which 205 km is a dual carriage way mostly S-class road (Warsaw - Katrynka), while only remaining 79 km (Katrynka - Augustow) is a single carriage way, which is definietly not as bad as road through Lomza.


----------



## bleetz

o.szydzyk said:


> I cannot understand why on earth people take Lomza road from Warsaw to Augustow these days.
> 
> Road via Bialystok is far better and much more pleasant to drive, while driving time is almost the same.
> 
> From Warsaw to Augustow via Lomza you have 259 km in total, of which only 130 km (Warsaw - Zambrow) is S-class road, while other 129 km is a narrow, pain-in-the-ass and danegerous part, with construction works in progres, going through small towns and villages. Through Bialystok though, there is 284 km in total, of which 205 km is a dual carriage way mostly S-class road (Warsaw - Katrynka), while only remaining 79 km (Katrynka - Augustow) is a single carriage way, which is definietly not as bad as road through Lomza.


I agree. I drove both ways recently and my impressions are the same.


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## ryhor

bleetz said:


> I agree. I drove both ways recently and my impressions are the same.


At the entrance to Bialystok there is a construction. There is a high risk of getting stuck in traffic jam for quite a long time. Many people take Jezewo exit instead and drive the road number 671 to Korycin via Knyszyn.


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## o.szydzyk

ryhor said:


> At the entrance to Bialystok there is a construction. There is a high risk of getting stuck in traffic jam for quite a long time. Many people take Jezewo exit instead and drive the road number 671 to Korycin via Knyszyn.


Traffic jam there depends on time of the day, and could be easily bypassed using local roads. There is no need to take this huge detour through villages via road 671.

Anyway, Google Maps shows similar driving time via Bialystok and via Lomza, even despite of this traffic jam.


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## Kemo

DW671 is a shortcut rather than a detour.


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## Proterra

Kemo said:


> DW671 is a shortcut rather than a detour.


And it allows one to avoid Białystok which is always a good thing... :lol: :cheers:


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## Stuu

sponge_bob said:


> It is no longer a national or 'cultural' issue, technology surely can work if used properly on an EU wide basis.


But it's a cultural issue that stops people using bank cards, I find it hard to believe that the same people will willingly have a tag that can track their every move


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## Kemo

S17, bypass of Ryki will be opened this week


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## Bonvin

I drowe dw671 in August but the road after Knyszyn towards Jasionowka is in an incredible bad shape, you have to stop if you want to cross another car. They are doing some repairs but only for a few hundred meters. I hope they will renew this stretch rapidly otherwise no one will be able to drive on it!
Do you know when they will finish the works at the entrance of Bialystok?


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## Kemo

Bonvin said:


> I drowe dw671 in August but the road after Knyszyn towards Jasionowka is in an incredible bad shape, you have to stop if you want to cross another car. They are doing some repairs but only for a few hundred meters. I hope they will renew this stretch rapidly otherwise no one will be able to drive on it!


Yes, I guess this road has not seen any modernisation since it was first paved. Which was probably 60 years ago or more 



> Do you know when they will finish the works at the entrance of Bialystok?


Summer 2020. Well, at least this is the contracted date.


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## Kemo

A rather useless section of S6/S11 in Koszalin will be opened in the second half of September. It is 4.5 km long.
It will gain some functionality once S6 towards Kołobrzeg gets opened, and this is supposed to happen in November.

Map: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/54.1944/16.1361


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## Chris80678

So, half of a bypass of Koszalin


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## Erkaesowiec

S17 - Ryki bypass just opened (about 3 hours ago). A few photos and video:
https://www.lublin112.pl/obwodnica-...-jezdzimy-juz-droga-ekspresowa-zdjecia-wideo/


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## Erkaesowiec

^^


Toye said:


> ^^Dokładnie nawierzchnia bardzo dobra. Ok wrzucam Wam teraz dwa filmy z oryginalnym dzwiękiem:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dodatkowo zauważyłem że wymieniaja oznakowanie na węzle Kurów Zachód
> 
> Enjoy! :cheers:


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## Erkaesowiec

It's me again...

S17 Ryki bypass on motorbike:


Tytuss said:


> Skrudki - Ryki Północ


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## Kemo

The updated map now differentiates between 2x2 and 2x3 motorways

Several tenders for new motorways have been announced lately:
-S5 near Ostróda
-S16 near Mrągowo (second attempt)
-A18 near the PL/D border
-S7 north of Warsaw


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## Strzala

*S19* Janów Lubelski surroundings:


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## rakcancer

Kemo said:


> The updated map now differentiates between 2x2 and 2x3 motorways


Good idea. It becomes clear that distinguishing on the map with thicker or thinner lines between A and S motorways makes not much sense in Poland since they are both up to very high standard. I would be glad to see Google maps follows the same pattern. 
At the same time showing 2x2 and 2X3 motorways differently makes more sense.


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## yoggy52

Isnt there any 2x4 in Poland?


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## Kemo

Not really.
There is this section: https://www.google.pl/maps/@50.2470...=47.52336&pitch=0&thumbfov=100!7i13312!8i6656
but these two rightmost lanes are just a poor version of a collector/distributor carriageway.

But if you count these carriageways, then there are some 2x5 sections 
https://www.google.pl/maps/place/Ka...9af2a350559fabb!8m2!3d50.2648919!4d19.0237815


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## Kpc21

yoggy52 said:


> Isnt there any 2x4 in Poland?


There are some on city streets, not really on highways.


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## RipleyLV

There is a brief 2x4 segment before the Konotopa junction on the A2. :colgate:


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## rakcancer

I think this would be the widest stretch of motorway in Poland-S8 in Warsaw over the Vistula river:
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.287...4!1sVp5IwWU30LioLJXT843ydA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


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## Kirt93

If we decide to count the situations where all the lanes technically part of the same carriageway but some of them are actually, like Kemo described, "a poor version of a collector/distributor carriageway", then also in Warsaw there is a bit over 1 kilometer long fragment of S2 expressway where there actually is a proper 2x5 profile, i.e. all 5 lanes in each direction are located on the same carriageway. But truly it's again 3 "real" lanes and 2 collector lanes between two interchanges which are located close one to another:

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.139...198.24513&pitch=0&thumbfov=100!7i16384!8i8192

If we count super short fragments, one could try to claim a 2x7 - or 6 in one direction and 7 in the other - profile here: https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1680906,20.9275345,234m/data=!3m1!1e3 , but it's more like saying that the standard 2x2 motorway has 2x3 parts because it adds a slow line before an intersection, so it doesn't truly count. In the 2x5 cases, there at least is truly 5 lanes going all in the same direction.


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## Nowax

S7 Lubien - Rabka section



pacio20 said:


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> Fotorelacja wstawiona automatycznie.


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## Chris80678

Good photos. When will this part of S7 (Lubien - Naprawa) open to traffic?


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## Kemo

^^
Maybe this month.

Southbound carriageway of S5 near Poznań (ex-Toto contract) has been opened to traffic (in full profile) yesterday. The other carriageway has one lane available.
None of the interchanges (except the southermost one) are operational.



Jachoslaw said:


>


At the same time, the southern end of this section was closed (because the remaining construction works need to be done), which means significant traffic jams.
So not much of an improvement overall 

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/52.2248/16.6868


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## Chris80678

What a mess :bash::nuts:


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## yoggy52

Why there is lowered speed limit because of wildlife when there is overpass built for wildlife? :nuts:


----------



## Chris80678

Kirt93 said:


> And yet another good news:
> S8 on the section Radziejowice – Przeszkoda (10 km), which was mostly-open for quite a moment already, got fully opened today.


This is a huge well done for Polska!

It is now possible to go right from Wroclaw through to Bialystok entirely by 'S' standard expressway


----------



## Kemo

Chris80678 said:


> It is now possible to go right from Wroclaw through to Bialystok entirely by expressway :cheers::cheers::cheers:


If you mean only "S road" without "A road", then no, it is not possible 
With "A roads" it is hovever already possible for a year.


----------



## sponge_bob

bad_boy said:


> As of today, Poland has 1670.5 kilometers of motorways and 2354 kilometers of expressways making it *4024.5 km* in total.


Just past the half way mark of the plan. Any educated guesses as to when the 5000km and 6000km (75%) marks will be reached???


----------



## Kemo

Currently there are almost 1100 km of motorways in implementation (including construction, D&B and abandoned contracts).
If all goes well, most of them should be completed by the end of 2022.


----------



## Kirt93

sponge_bob said:


> 6000km (75%) mark


If I recall correctly, when Construction Plan 2014-2023(25) was first announced it meant that constructing all of it would be already (slightly) above 6000 in total. Since then some minor additions were made (A18 reconstruction, eastern S12 construction) which gives room for some sections which might not make it. I doesn't seem plausible that the plan will be finished in 2025, but most of it being done by 2026 - quite believable. So I'd guess that realistically-optimistically 2026 for 6000.


----------



## Wrocl'awianin

Chris80678 said:


> This is a huge well done for Polska!
> 
> It is now possible to go right from Wroclaw through to Bialystok entirely by 'S' standard expressway


Well, yes and no. 
The World would be perfect if you weren't urged to pass through A1 motorway.
I've seen some plans that there would be a link/by-pass between Łódź South Interchange and S8 nearby Lubochnia/Rawa Mazowiecka as an alternative to current route which takes you to Piotrków Trybunalski and then back to the S8 expressway.
To not complain too much, it's still an awesome achievement in Polish road infrastructure that you can go in multiple and very good (express/motor)ways from Wrocław to Warsaw and vice versa (toll free). 
:cheers:


----------



## sponge_bob

Poland did pass out the UK this year for controlled access roads (their 3700km of M vs 4000km of A and S) but the UK has a large network of DC of highly variable quality. At c.6000km Poland passes the UK out clear I reckon as the remainder Polish S2 network is arguably better than the UK one too and the Polish network will reach all of the far corners of the [email protected] 6000km 

7000km passes Italy out, It is easier to build in Poland and the standard of road is higher, on average, as it is more modern. Again the Polish S2 is better than the Italian remainder.

You would have been happy with those 2 targets, by 2030 (ish) when you joined the EU 15 years ago.


----------



## MajKeR_

RipleyLV said:


> What will happen to the existing dual-carriageway of the DK1? Will it be downgraded?


As Kemo said in domestic thread it will be downgraded into provincial road.


----------



## SRC_100

*In addition to good information on the S1 road, today was announced a tender for the last, third section:*

*- Section III: Dankowice - Suchy Potok junction*










In order not to be too optimistic, it should be noted a certain investor (GDDKiA) mistake: the tender involves the construction of a road in a 2x2 profile, while just now is justified construction in a 2x3 profile. What's more, as part of the savings, the internal reserve for the third lane was removed, the reserve was moved outside the road.


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## Kirt93

Construction permit was issued for a short fragment of S6 west of Tricity (construction of the first half of this contract commenced a few weeks ago)
*S6:* Chwaszczyno - Gdynia Wielki Kack 8.4km (October 2019 to Summer 2021) – project – map


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## Kemo

There is only about 4 km from Chwaszczyno to Wielki Kack.

*S6:* Szemud - Gdynia-Wielki Kack (S7) 18.7km (October 2019 to Summer 2021) – project – map


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## Kirt93

http://s6szemud-gdynia.pl/zakres-robot says 20.2km, are they incorrect? Also this new permit was issued specifically for a (sub)section 8.4 km long (possibly the split-point was not exactly near Chwaszczyno interchange but further beyond which would explain the length differences?) according to https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/35386/Mamy-drugi-ZRID-na-pomorski-odcinek-S6


----------



## Don Vito KurDeBalanz

Kemo said:


> Construction permit for the tunnel connecting Świnoujście with the rest of Poland has been issued.
> Completion date - 2022.


It's worth to mention that lider od contract PORR announced that TBM has been already ordered in China. 
Weight 2740,00 t
Lenght 101,00m
Internal diameter 12,00m
External diameter 13,46m
Tunnel overall lenght 1,78 km
Distance to be drilled 1,48 km

TBM will be delivered in September 2020
Drilling starts in March 2021



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1176403009338781696
https://twitter.com/porr_polska/sta...apercity.com/showthread.php?t=396131&page=113

TBM maker:










China Railway Engineering Equipment Group


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## Kemo

Kirt93 said:


> http://s6szemud-gdynia.pl/zakres-robot says 20.2km, are they incorrect? Also this new permit was issued specifically for a (sub)section 8.4 km long (possibly the split-point was not exactly near Chwaszczyno interchange but further beyond which would explain the length differences?) according to https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/35386/Mamy-drugi-ZRID-na-pomorski-odcinek-S6



They include the section of Tricity bypass (_ZOT_) which will get widened to 2x3. Also they include roads branching off the interchanges, which do not actually belong to S6 (like DW474).


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## ChrisZwolle

What is the status of the Sianów bypass of S6. Will it open with a temporary endpoint, or will it open at the same time as the delayed Koszalin bypass?


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## Kemo

Only the short section east of Sianów-East will get opened
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/54.2417/16.3329

But it will only make things worse due to the shape of the junction


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## Chris80678

The old DK6 between Płoty and Koszalin will be re-numbered to DW108

The old DK11 between Koszalin and Kołobrzeg will be re-numbered to DW102


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## ChrisZwolle

No DK96. It is already used for a 2 km spur of A1 at Turzno.


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## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> Only the short section east of Sianów-East will get opened
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/54.2417/16.3329
> 
> But it will only make things worse due to the shape of the junction


There is little sense in opening this tiny section when the rest of the Koszalin bypass is not ready (and probably won't be ready for opening anytime soon) :nuts:


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## Kemo

Chris80678 said:


> The old DK6 between Płoty and Koszalin will be re-numbered to DW108
> 
> The old DK11 between Koszalin and Kołobrzeg will be re-numbered to DW102


Nope, the numbering is unknown at this moment.


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## Kirt93

^^ The traffic from north east to north is negligible. (Actually, for the last 30 years it wasn't even possible to make such a turn.)


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## Kemo

A contract for finishing construction of S3 near Polkowice (ex-Salini section) has been signed.

*S3:* Kazmierzow – Lubin-North 14.4km (October 2015 to May 2021) – project – map

Construction of another section of Warsaw ringroad has started:

*S17:* Warszawa-Zakręt – Warszawa-Lubelska (S2) 2.5km (November 2019 to April 2021) – project – map

As mentioned before, modernisation of A18 has begun:
*A18:* rededication Jędrzychowice – Lubieszów 21.9km (June 2022) – project – map


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## sponge_bob

Will this finish the S3 then?? 

BTW That Wikimapia base map is at least 2 years out of date from what I can see, the motorway network is missing large lumps all over Europe. 



Kemo said:


> A contract for finishing construction of S3 near Polkowice (ex-Salini section) has been signed.
> 
> *S3:* Kazmierzow – Lubin-North 14.4km (October 2015 to May 2021) – project – map


----------



## Kirt93

sponge_bob said:


> Will this finish the S3 then??


The southernmost part to Czech border will still be under construction after that due to mountainous terrain there, it'll be finished in 2023. Then the northernmost section to Świnoujście is still waiting, maybe we'll see tenders by the end of the year (?) so it might be finished in 2024 at best. (PS. Which map?)


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## sponge_bob

Kirt93 said:


> (PS. Which map?)


Instead of Wikimapia??? uMap probably. If a road is not already shown there you can add it as a layer floating 'on top of' OSM. It does not change any OSM base map. 

If it is shown there you can highlight the portion in a contract by drawing on top of it. 

https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/


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## Kemo

sponge_bob said:


> BTW That Wikimapia base map is at least 2 years out of date from what I can see, the motorway network is missing large lumps all over Europe.


Yes, it is crappy, so you need to switch the view to OSM. I don't know why it automatically loads the other view.


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## sponge_bob

uMap always uses OSM as a base map but you can draw your own line 'on top of that' to show where you are talking about. 

https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/untitled-map_391619#15/52.3310/21.0891

Log in to uMap with your OSM username or a gmail address, allow uMap access...when asked. 
Trace out the road segment you are referring to with the line tool. 
Change color to red and weight to 'thick line' ....in that example above. 
Center map at that point when the line is done. 
Press save, copy url on top of page.... and done. 

uMap will let you mark a road segment whether it is already in OSM or not, the example above is already in OSM, I added a highlighter line on top in uMap. 

HTH


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## sponge_bob

EG 

S3: Kazmierzow – Lubin-North 14.4km (October 2015 to May 2021) – project – MAP

See what happens when you click on that red line too.


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## rudiwien

^^

Another option is to use openstreetmap.de, as they still do render "proposed" roads, e.g. here the S7 around Krakow:

https://www.openstreetmap.de/karte.html?zoom=12&lat=50.0977&lon=20.02782&layers=B000TT

(The link to get a permalink is a bit hidden in the bottom-right)

So not as flexible than https://umap.openstreetmap.fr, but it many proposed / tendered roads not yet in construction are already in OSM anyhow.


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## MajKeR_

Worth reposting IMO. A few recent photos of A1 Częstochowa bypass compared with those taken two months ago. More of them in source thread. 



artursz1 said:


> Węzeł Częstochowa Północ, WA-353 - 2019.11.24:
> 
> 
> Węzeł Częstochowa Północ, WA-353 - 2019.09.16:
> 
> 
> -----
> 
> Obrót o 180 stopni, widok w kierunku Gliwic, Węzeł Częstochowa Północ, WA-353 - 2019.11.24:
> 
> 
> Obrót o 180 stopni, widok w kierunku Gliwic, Węzeł Częstochowa Północ, WA-353 - 2019.09.16:
> 
> 
> -----
> 
> WA-352a, kierunek Łódź - 2019.11.24:
> 
> 
> WA-352a, kierunek Łódź - 2019.09.16:
> 
> 
> -----
> 
> Obrót o 180 stopni, widok w kierunku Gliwic, Węzeł Częstochowa Północ, WA-352a - 2019.11.24:
> 
> 
> Obrót o 180 stopni, widok w kierunku Gliwic, Węzeł Częstochowa Północ, WA-352a - 2019.09.16:
> 
> 
> -----
> 
> Kontynuujemy w kierunku Łodzi, przed WA-352 - 2019.11.24:
> 
> 
> Kontynuujemy w kierunku Łodzi, przed WA-352 - 2019.09.16:
> 
> 
> -----
> 
> WA-352 - 2019.11.24:
> 
> 
> WA-352 - 2019.09.16:
> 
> 
> -----
> 
> Koniec odcinka "F" - 2019.11.24:
> 
> 
> Koniec odcinka "F" - 2019.09.16
> 
> 
> Koniec.
> Jutro lub pojutrze wrzucę jeszcze filmik z przelotu nad całym odcinkiem.


----------



## Nowax

[A1] - Częstochowa bypass :cheers:



Kasz said:


>


----------



## sponge_bob

Nowax said:


> [A1] - Częstochowa bypass :cheers:


Is this likely to open _during_ the winter or will the cold weather prevent them finishing it off???


----------



## Kemo

It will be opened unfinished, the winter is not going to prevent this.


Construction of S3 north of Szczecin and the progress in 6 months:


















I think it is currently the fastest motorway construction site in Poland. (Not counting A1 Częstochowa)


----------



## MichiH

^^ Is it just a short segment or is the entire section as advanced? To be opened by the end of 2019?  The deadline is April 2021...


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## Kemo

Definiely not 2019 

But everything is quite advanced.

Here is Rzęśnica interchange (different contract, but the same building company amd construction started at the same time)









Kliniska junction









Photos by JacYk


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## Kemo

DK5 bypass of Bolków

It seems to be completed. 5 months ahead of schedule


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Demolition of the S8 flyover at A1 at Piotrków Trybunalski.


----------



## keber

^^ This flyover is not that old, isn't it? Usually such objects are made to be adequate for decades.


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## SRC_100

At least cca. 30 years old... maybe even closer to 40 yo.


----------



## skunks

keber said:


> ^^ This flyover is not that old, isn't it? Usually such objects are made to be adequate for decades.


It was built during communism time, wasn't it? Many of buildings from that time are of poor quality because the standards were not the most important thing, like so:

– Sir, we don't have enough cement and we won't be given more cement for months.
– Just put more sand into the mixture. The party leaders want us to finish this thing by 22nd of July.
– But sir, this bridge will not last as long as it is supposed to be…
– Like THEY care???


----------



## geogregor

skunks said:


> It was built during communism time, wasn't it? Many of buildings from that time are of poor quality because the standards were not the most important thing, like so:
> 
> – Sir, we don't have enough cement and we won't be given more cement for months.
> – Just put more sand into the mixture. The party leaders want us to finish this thing by 22nd of July.
> – But sir, this bridge will not last as long as it is supposed to be…
> – Like THEY care???


You should use "comrade" rather than "sir".


----------



## skunks

geogregor said:


> You should use "comrade" rather than "sir".


In contrast to Soviet Union/Russia, where _tavarishch_ is common among ordinary people, in Poland _towarzyszu_ "comrade" or _obywatelu_ "citizen" was only used by the members of the party. Ordinary people always used _panie/pani_ "sir/madam".

Like when my father was in military in 1960s, his seargent told them:
you will address me as _panie sierżancie_ "seargent, sir", unless some higher brass comes, then you will use the style _obywatelu sierżancie_ "citizen seargent".

It appears that Polish military command in those times was turning blind eye on these double standards: panie / obywatelu, perhaps for convenience reasons: pa-nie are two syllabals, whereas o-by-wa-te-lu are five syllabals.


----------



## dominobb

New design&build tenders:
*S3 Świnoujście - Troszyn* (33 km)


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## skunks

^^ Junction named LNG is funny.


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## Kirt93

keber said:


> ^^ This flyover is not that old, isn't it? Usually such objects are made to be adequate for decades.


This flyover was originally intended to stay and get refurbished, but it turned it was in a bad enough shape that this wouldn't serve. In total, large annexes to this contract needed to be signed, in total amounting for demolition and reconstruction of 8 overpasses, all of which had been originally thought sufficient to get renovated to admit higher loads, and they turned out not to be in shape for this. (point VII.2.1, the flyover in question is WD-292).

So yeah, those 8 overpasses should've ideally served more than those 30-something years, but


skunks said:


> during communism time (...) the standards were not always the most important thing.


----------



## rakcancer

Kirt93 said:


> This flyover was originally intended to stay and get refurbished, but it turned it was in a bad enough shape that this wouldn't serve. In total, large annexes to this contract needed to be signed, in total amounting for demolition and reconstruction of 8 overpasses, all of which had been originally thought sufficient to get renovated to admit higher loads, and they turned out not to be in shape for this. (point VII.2.1, the flyover in question is WD-292).
> 
> So yeah, those 8 overpasses should've ideally served more than those 30-something years, but


In that link you inserted there was nothing about bad shape of the structures that was on the way to keep them. It simply stated that technically it wouldn't be possible to increase load capacity, so the best way to achieve that would be demolishing it and replacing it with new ones. That doesn't mean these viaducts were built incorrectly in the first place. The standards 30+ years ago were simply different.


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## Kirt93

^^ But the predesign had deemed these structures as being suitable for increasing load capacity, and only after performing the tests of their current state during the design-build contract it turned out impossible. And the link says exactly this too: "po przeprowadzeniu specjalistycznych ekspertyz stanu technicznego obiektów inżynierskich", i.e. "after performing an expertise of technical condition of the objects".


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## rakcancer

It still doesn't mean it was built incorrectly in first place.
If you keep reading the same paragraph you have just quoted you will find that even renovation of these viaducts wouldn't achieve intended increased load capacity, so maybe there weren't in the best shape, they required some renovation but that still wouldn't solve the problem. That was the reason to demolish them.


----------



## Kirt93

Are we really reading the same text? "stan techniczny obiektów inżynierskich" means current shape (!) of the objects, this term has nothing to do with their intended properties or their standards of construction. The objects were deemed suitable for achieving intended load capacity "poprzez remont ww. obiektów", but after "ekspertyza stanu technicznego obiektów inżynierskich" i.e. the expertize of their current shape, was conducted, it turned out impossible. In either case, I don't think continuing discussing this is worth the time.


----------



## keber

I just thought that this bridge was constructed together with the adjacent S8 expressway. Apparently it was build much sooner.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I'm guessing it was built either during the Gierkówka construction in the mid-1970s, or the A1 construction in the late 1980s.


----------



## rakcancer

^^ 1989 when A1 was constructed.


----------



## rakcancer

btw this is how it looked in 1981 around Piotrków Trybunalski:


----------



## rakcancer

GDDKiA published on their website summary of last year and plans for near future in the years ahead. 
In short: there will be reductions and postponements of originally planned projects due to different factors mostly, according to them due to market situation and planned modifications in approach to tenders system. They didn't say that straight but it is obviously about lack of money too.
Source:
https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/36049/Kluczowe-decyzje-inwestora-ksztaltuja-rynek


----------



## Kirt93

^^ All of the tenders from the 2019 plan which got their predesign/design finished, were put to tender. All of the tenders from the 2019 plan which didn't happen, didn't happen because the paperwork is still not ready.

So I'd treat this article in terms of nothing more than a propaganda piece, really. They can talk as they please about "It was a conscious decision to move 50 km of tender to the next year due to market situation", or about planned modifications, or "Somebody may ask, why we don't open those tenders if we're ready for them". But they're not ready – and that's it. The reality is that the predesign/design phases are taking longer than they should be taking, and this talk about "decisions" to delay those tenders is just their attempt to obfuscate that fact. There were no "decisions" to delay any of those projects, those projects just caught delays.


----------



## sponge_bob

Kirt93 said:


> ^^ I'd treat this article in terms of nothing more than a propaganda piece, really.


In plainer English it reads more like " We just can't get the staff to build 500km a year any more so we will slow down to 400km or 300km n a year over the next few years"

and also

"We will have to use the staff for maintenance and widening of the existing network from now on, instead of building new network"

*BUT*

Even if Poland slowed down to 200km a year of new build, by 2025, it would still beat most European countries every year, even Spain!.


----------



## Kirt93

The (unfulfilled) plan of 500 km was anyway an exception rather than a rule. 300 km is a fairly repetitive figure, though: around 300 is how much openings we had in 2011, 2013, 2014, 2017 and 2018. In 2012 it was much more (630 km), in 2015 and 2016 it was much less (150 km of openings for both years together), but around 300 km seems a really prevalent figure for a "normal" situation. Let's hope we can realistically keep 300 km as our yearly default for quite some time still (except for a major crisis), but of course – we'll see.


----------



## Erkaesowiec

S17 Warszawa [# Lubelska] - Kurów



Erkaesowiec said:


> Zdziski ode mnie. Więcej nie robiłem, bo ciemno się zrobiło.


----------



## Kemo

GDDKiA confirmed that the remaining 52 km of S5 motorway between Poznań and Wrocław will be opened this Saturday.

(It includes two new sections between Wronczyn and Lipno, 36 km, and full opening of the ex-Toto section near Poznań, 16 km.)

This opening will also complete the first loop in Polish motorway network:
Poznań - A2 - Łódź - A1 - S8 - A8 - Wrocław - S5 - Poznań.


----------



## rakcancer

Interesting loop observation, however I think we have already one if counting short , technically still unfinished but drivable section of S8 near Warsaw:A1-A2-S2-S8


----------



## Rusonaldo

Yes, I prepared the signs earlier. All interchange are open.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Stęszew*

What was the reasoning behind the construction of a cloverleaf between S5 and DK32 at Stęszew?










It appears far-fetched for it to be a future S32. But I did notice the S3 / DK32 interchange at Zielona Góra used to have a provision for an eastward extension (which was later changed to a local access). 

Was there ever a motorway planned in this corridor? Perhaps even Poznań - Zielona Góra - Cottbus - Dresden?


----------



## Kemo

I don't think there is much reasoning behind the design of motorway interchanges in Poland :troll:

I never heard of a high class road to be designed along the DK32 corridor.


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> What was the reasoning behind the construction of a cloverleaf between S5 and DK32 at Stęszew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It appears far-fetched for it to be a future S32. But I did notice the S3 / DK32 interchange at Zielona Góra used to have a provision for an eastward extension (which was later changed to a local access).
> 
> Was there ever a motorway planned in this corridor? Perhaps even Poznań - Zielona Góra - Cottbus - Dresden?


No need for a motorway, but a decent 2x2 GP between Poznań and Zielona Góra sounds reasonable.


----------



## celevac

How realistic is it that A1 Czestochowa bypass could be open this coming weekend? Or did I understand this wrong and it will take a lot longer? 
Also, Warszawa-Katowice towards Vienna southbound: Anything to look out for, traveling this Sunday? I read about the Piotrkow roundabout which might create traffic jams. Anything else? How smooth or nasty is the construction site of future A1 these days?


----------



## Kemo

^^
A1 opening is not confirned yet.

What is confirmed however is the opening of Skarżysko-Kamienna bypass on S7 (Thursday), so you may consider using E77 instead of E75:
https://graphhopper.com/maps/?point...tion=true&use_miles=false&layer=OpenStreetMap

(There are 2x2 lanes from Warsaw to point 1, then some decent regional road and then you're back on motorway, avoiding all that hell on DK1.)


----------



## Kirt93

celevac said:


> How smooth or nasty is the construction site of future A1 these days?


Southbound it actually is nasty only on this very beginning near Piotrków, the rest is rather OK towards south. Northbound is much worse. So I guess I'd stick to the normal route on a Sunday southbound (though this Sunday will be a bit busier than normal Sundays), if you see on the navi that it's really bad on Piotrków bypass (probably not), you can check if the local roads through Piotrków are faster. If you plan on returning to Warsaw anytime within 2020, in the northbound it should definitely be worth to look at Kemo's route.


----------



## Jacek2000

ChrisZwolle said:


> What was the reasoning behind the construction of a cloverleaf between S5 and DK32 at Stęszew?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It appears far-fetched for it to be a future S32. But I did notice the S3 / DK32 interchange at Zielona Góra used to have a provision for an eastward extension (which was later changed to a local access).
> 
> Was there ever a motorway planned in this corridor? Perhaps even Poznań - Zielona Góra - Cottbus - Dresden?


I think it is because with all the new construction, at least where possible, the natonal roads (DK) are supposed to be of GP (Główna Przyspieszona) class. In GP class, the minimum required distance between intersections is quite large, that's why interchanges like diamond or semi-clover leaf won't work. It has to be either full cloverleaf or trumpets at motorways. If you look at the interchanges of expressways with national roads, they're usually formed that way.


----------



## Sponsor

There is railway line parallel to DK32 and power line parallel to S5. Both really close. They might be the reason.


----------



## Kemo

Bypass of Skarżysko-Kamienna (7.6 km) has been opened today, 5 months ahead of schedule.
It fills one of the gaps in S7 motorway between Warsaw and Cracow, forming a 190 km long continuous motorway stretch between Grójec and Wodzisław.

Map: https://www.openstreetmap.org/direc...0.8587;51.1094,20.8442#map=12/51.1304/20.9053


----------



## Wrocl'awianin

Although it's only a 7.6 km slice of expressway, I spent almost an hour in a traffic jam there once I went from Warsaw to Krakow in August.
Well done.
:cheers:


----------



## Kemo

Tomorrow will be a busy day for road openings:

*S7* Lubień - Naprawa, 1st carriageway https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/49.6855/19.9209
*A2* Poznań bypass, 2x3 lanes https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/52.3495/16.8776
*S5* Żnin - Mieleszyn https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/52.7748/17.6660
*DK50/DK79* Góra Kalwaria bypass https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/51.9872/21.1949
*DK45* Opole bypass https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/50.6766/17.8725
*DW866* Lubaczów bypass https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/50.1441/23.1302

On Monday we are opening
*S17* Kołbiel - Garwolin https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/51.9867/21.5425
*A1* Częstochowa bypass https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/50.8230/19.0956

(Not all of these are 100% confirmed, though)


----------



## Kemo

Bypass of Kołbiel on S17 has been partially opened today.
Don't get overexcited though, the infamous DK17/DK50 rounabout has just been moved to a new place. 

Map: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/52.0594/21.4602


----------



## MichiH

Kemo said:


> Bypass of Kołbiel on S17 has been partially opened today.


What does 'partially' mean? 1st carriageway? From x to y?


----------



## Kemo

One cariageway, but with at-grade intersections.
As indicated on OSM: https://www.openstreetmap.org/direc...1.4949;52.0809,21.4378#map=16/52.0601/21.4610


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*S3*

The second span of the S3 bridge over the Odra River has opened to traffic.


----------



## Kemo

16 km of A2/S5/S11 motorway in Poznań has been widened to 2x3 lanes. It was opened in full profile today. Construction took ~10 months.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/direc...6.7669;52.3460,16.9988#map=12/52.3503/16.8829


----------



## sponge_bob

Kemo said:


> 16 km of A2/S5/S11 motorway in Poznań has been widened to 2x3 lanes. It was opened in full profile today.


Is it a solid 120kph zone and is that because lanes are a tad narrower after widening??


----------



## Kemo

Bypass of Góra Kalwaria opened.

One of the main bottlenecks on Warsaw Transit Ringroad is gone.



RaV... said:


>


----------



## Kemo

A section of Opole's western bypass has been opened


----------



## dugiPL

Częstochowa bypass is now open!

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1209112201795117056


----------



## Lankosher

Sections of A1, S17 & S5 have been opened to traffic today.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It seems that the semi-interchange Miętne of S17 has been removed?


----------



## rakcancer

I see that in recent years newly opened section of A/S are more frequently not finished completely yet. They are technically drivable but from different reasons (unfinished service roads, uninstalled noise screens or so) are not fully up to their projected capacity, so the speed limit is reduced. That can last from few weeks to several months like at S8 near Bialystok. I don't remember that kind of situations at least not at the same scale 5 years ago and backward. Now lot of newly opened sections are only drivable like A1 Czestochowa bypass, S17 around Ryki, S6 around Ploty, S16 around Olsztyn, S5 around Smigiel to mention just few recent. Is that become norm now? Does it count towards officially finished construction for contractor when in fact works are still on?


----------



## Kemo

A1 Częstochowa bypass in both directions


----------



## bzbox

^^
Watching video makes me thinking all that heavy traffic was driving through the city until today :uh:


----------



## Maciek_CK

rakcancer said:


> I see that in recent years newly opened section of A/S are more frequently not finished completely yet. They are technically drivable but from different reasons (unfinished service roads, uninstalled noise screens or so) are not fully up to their projected capacity, so the speed limit is reduced. That can last from few weeks to several months like at S8 near Bialystok. I don't remember that kind of situations at least not at the same scale 5 years ago and backward. Now lot of newly opened sections are only drivable like A1 Czestochowa bypass, S17 around Ryki, S6 around Ploty, S16 around Olsztyn, S5 around Smigiel to mention just few recent. Is that become norm now? Does it count towards officially finished construction for contractor when in fact works are still on?


Sadly it became a norm. I believe it started with the opening of the last section of A2 between Warsaw and Łódź, just two days before Euro 2012. Now we have multiple expressways way past the deadline that are operational, but not fully functional. Take S7 Chęciny - Jędrzejów for example: Salini was never kicked out despite having enormous problems and huge delays, but it's been over a year since they kind of finished the main road (I say kind of, because I remember it was missing a final layer) and it's still a construction site with a speed limit, no rest areas and unfinished service roads. The Marki bypass is even better story: Salini made it operational two years ago, got kicked out the following year, another year and a half passed (making inventory, new tender) and a deal was signed last month to complete it. Deadline? Late spring 2021.

Poznań bypass was widened to 3 lanes in 10 months.


----------



## Niemiec w Polsce

Originally posted by *rakcancer*


> Bialystok. I don't remember that kind of situations at least not at the same scale 5 years ago and backward. Now lot of newly opened sections are only drivable like A1 Czestochowa bypass, S17 around Ryki, S6 around Ploty, S16 around Olsztyn, S5 around Smigiel to mention just few recent. Is that become norm now? Does it count towards officially finished construction for contractor when in fact works are still on?


Is there any time line till when those mentioned sections will be fully operational?


----------



## rakcancer

I didn't mention Warszawa-Lodz A2 story because it was frantic time and pressure to finish it after Chinese Covec but that is true, it was beginning of era of "drivable roads" in Poland I guess.


----------



## Chris80678

bzbox said:


> ^^
> Watching video makes me thinking all that heavy traffic was driving through the city until today :uh:


It would be interesting to see how much less traffic there will be on DK91 through east Częstochowa now :banana:

When I visited the city in March, DK91 was heaving with trucks and transit traffic


----------



## PovilD

Although there was no outer city bypass, but DK91 (former DK1) always had functionalities as Częstochowa's Eastern Bypass.

When I was passing Częstochowa few times (most of them in both directions in the same journey) I don't remember any significant congestions, although there was a lot of traffic, but there are cities with lots of traffic too, so I didn't mind. I also kept in mind that there is no other bypass for transit traffic.


----------



## Kpc21

The DK1/DK91 in Częstochowa had no at-grade intersections, if I remember well. Significant congestions were always there – but not in Częstochowa itself, but south of it, in the Poczesna village.


----------



## Kemo

Kpc21 said:


> The DK1/DK91 in Częstochowa had no at-grade intersections, if I remember well.


It does have a few of them.

In fact, one of the reasons why A1 had to be opened quickly was the planned upgrade of DK1 in Częstochowa which is about to start.

The at-grade intersections at points 1 and 2 will be upgraded, and then the whole highlighted section will be grade-separated.
https://graphhopper.com/maps/?point...tion=true&use_miles=false&layer=OpenStreetMap


----------



## MacOlej

Which brings us to a choke point right at the southern end of the section you marked: the DK1 + DK46 intersection. This is a major problem when driving northbound.

I can't wait to see how much the jams decrease there after the A1 opening.


----------



## Tonik1

Zakopianka and nearby roads yesterday:























































https://zakopane.naszemiasto.pl/zak...t-najgorzej-zdjecia/ga/c4-7484709/zd/49731695


----------



## Luki_SL

^^Many drivers... didn`t have tires. In the mountain area it`s irresponsible.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think it's irresponsible to drive without tires anywhere :duck:


----------



## Kpc21

But without appropriate tyres for the conditions especially...


----------



## masages21

You should not get your insurance money in case of a claim if you had no winter tyres on. These drivers are dangerous for other people not only for themselves.


----------



## Kpc21

What if someone has all-year tyres? How can the insurer decide when all-year tyres are enough and when winter ones are needed, and how to determine what exactly were the road conditions?

What if someone starts the route with all-year tyres when the conditions are good, and then they suddenly worsen, there appears snow and ice?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There is no such thing as 'winter tires'. This is a marketing term, in an attempt to increase tire sales outside of areas with frequent snow. 

There are snow/mud tires, all-season tires or regular summer tires. Studies have shown that in dry conditions, summer tires perform adequately even when it's cold. Snow tires are mostly beneficial if you live in areas with frequent snow and hills. Winter tires are sold in areas that don't have any long-term snow cover, it's also a thing in the Netherlands despite the lack of snow and ice, especially for more than a few hours, though more people are becoming aware that winter tires are mostly a sales pitch.

The problem with 'winter tires' is that many people think their car has invincible driving capabilities in slippery conditions and don't adjust their driving style to conditions.


----------



## Strzala

S17 Garwolin - Kołbiel:






https://youtu.be/1_KE0Z7oEso


----------



## Don Vito KurDeBalanz

"Winter tires" are still not compulsory in Poland.

The regulations are that you can ride any type of tires all year round though
the tire tread must not be lower than 1,6 mm. Still statistics show that approx. 95% of Polish drivers change their tires for winter ones. That's what I've read lately.


----------



## masages21

Kpc21 said:


> What if someone has all-year tyres? How can the insurer decide when all-year tyres are enough and when winter ones are needed, and how to determine what exactly were the road conditions?
> 
> What if someone starts the route with all-year tyres when the conditions are good, and then they suddenly worsen, there appears snow and ice?




Simply, you mandate the change of tyres as a precaution at a given date. It’s like having an umbrella in case of rain. You don’t wait for the conditions to change and you are just prepared for the change. The difference being that not having an umbrella is just annoying/harmful for you whereas without winter tyres you can be dangerous for other people.


----------



## Kpc21

What about the properties of the rubber, which also change with temperature?


----------



## Don Vito KurDeBalanz

> What is the difference between summer and winter tyres?
> 
> Winter tyres
> There are three fundamental differences between summer and winter tyres: their structure, their rubber compound and their tread pattern.
> 
> - Winter tyres have a higher natural rubber content which keeps them supple in the cold. The softer they are, the more the tyre is able to interlock with the road surface, improving grip and handling. Unlike summer tyres, which harden quickly in cold temperatures, winter tyres perform best in temperatures below +7 degrees C.
> - Winter tyres also have thousands of tiny grooves (known as sipes) in their tread blocks which are used to disperse water and prevent aquaplaning. These grooves bite into the snow, slush and ice, providing optimal grip with the road.
> - They also have a deep tread pattern. This provides a cavity for snow. Strangely, nothing grips snow better than snow, and the compacted snow intensifies the grip effect, adding traction to push the vehicle forwards on snowy and icy roads.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Summer tyres
> - Summer tyres provide better all-round performance in the warmer months. They have a relatively hard compound which softens in milder temperatures to be able to adapt to dry as well as wet roads.
> - Summer tyres have fewer sipes than winter tyres, but have specially designed tread bars to minimise aquaplaning. These provide more grip both longitudinally and laterally in warm temperatures. ensuring lots of grip on wet and dry roads.
> - Although summer tyres can handle most weather conditions, they’re not suitable for harsher, colder climates. They have a harder rubber compound with less natural rubber than winter tyres and this begins to harden and can become brittle below +7 degrees C. That said, they are designed to adapt to higher temperatures without getting soft. This means that summer tyres have lower friction and therefore are more fuel efficient.
> - Summer tyres tend to have a simple block-shaped tread pattern, providing a large footprint with the road. This ensures excellent handling and have a massive impact on the braking distance


.

https://www.uniroyal-tyres.com/car/tyre-guide/tyre-knowledge/difference-summer-and-winter-tyres


----------



## ChrisZwolle

These stopping distance charts are always on _snow_, hence the original term 'snow tires'. The difference is much smaller on dry pavement, even when it is colder than +7. 

I also wonder how bad the colder weather affects the alleged hardening of rubber, as friction from driving will heat tires up. Is the effect less after a few kilometers of driving?


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think it's irresponsible to drive without tires anywhere :duck:


Unless you drive a tank, or a digger


----------



## ViaBaltic1

S17 Kołbiel - Garwolin six days after opening.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

ChrisZwolle said:


> There is no such thing as 'winter tires'. This is a marketing term, in an attempt to increase tire sales outside of areas with frequent snow.
> 
> There are snow/mud tires, all-season tires or regular summer tires. Studies have shown that in dry conditions, summer tires perform adequately even when it's cold. Snow tires are mostly beneficial if you live in areas with frequent snow and hills. Winter tires are sold in areas that don't have any long-term snow cover, it's also a thing in the Netherlands despite the lack of snow and ice, especially for more than a few hours, though more people are becoming aware that winter tires are mostly a sales pitch.
> 
> The problem with 'winter tires' is that many people think their car has invincible driving capabilities in slippery conditions and don't adjust their driving style to conditions.


What do you mean there is no such thing as winter tyres?

There is a clear distinction between mud tyres (meant for off-roading) and winter tyres, meant for snow and ice. Furthermore, there are Central/Western-European winter tyres and Nordic winter tyres with the latter being geared much more towards better grip on ice and snow.

I totally agree that in dry conditions summer tyres are adequate even in temperatures around 0C or lower. However, I don't know about the Netherlands but over here it's very rarely dry in the winter even when the temperature is above freezing.

What also matters besides snow is black ice. Summer tyres are absolutely hopeless on black ice, much worse than on snow but it's much more dangerous since it can occur even when the air temperature is above freezing and the road looks dry or slightly wet.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Snow tires are sold under the moniker 'winter tires' to make them more appealing for people who live in areas that don't see frequent snow and ice. 

For example there are usually only a few days per year with accumulated snow in the Netherlands, so selling snow tires isn't a very lucrative business. Change the name to winter tires, show some graphs how superior winter tires are on snow, and boom! you've got yourself a business.


----------



## Eulanthe

Kpc21 said:


> What if someone has all-year tyres? How can the insurer decide when all-year tyres are enough and when winter ones are needed, and how to determine what exactly were the road conditions?
> 
> What if someone starts the route with all-year tyres when the conditions are good, and then they suddenly worsen, there appears snow and ice?


Usually all-year tyres have the M+S / snowflake symbols, so they're fine. Even my car that I use for going to work (which has some cheap rubbish tyres - no point in spending money on car tyres on a car which never leaves the city) has them on the tyres.

From the insurance point of view, if you start the journey with tyres that are not M+S approved, but then it snows, you're liable. It makes sense, because snow in winter is nothing unusual.

I remember driving back from Bielsko-Biała one year to Wrocław, and conditions were really great (sunny, clear skies) until Gliwice. I got the ticket for the A4, and suddenly the skies darkened. By the time I got to the A8, the motorway was an absolute mess - they couldn't clear it fast enough, and the A8 was at a standstill. 

Same story this year: I went to Warsaw in January for an important business meeting. No problems getting there, skies were clear, etc etc. The meeting finished at 12, and because I had no real rush to get home, I decided with my wife to go to the pinball museum there, and then we went for dinner. It was sunny when we went for dinner, and then when we left the restaurant, it was a blizzard. End result was it taking nearly 7 hours to get to Wrocław from Warsaw, as the A2 had iced over so quickly and badly. 

I remember absolutely fighting with my car for about 4 hours between the S8/S2-A2 junction and Łódz, and that was with my normal car which has good winter tyres. Traction was almost zero, people were sliding everywhere, and I have no idea how I escaped from that without hitting anyone. I nearly crashed several times, too, and the only thing that saved me was the tyres finding some grip in the last seconds. If I'd been on summer tyres, it would have been an absolute disaster. 

Both of those times, the weather wasn't forecast. 

Speaking of A4 tickets, ChrisZwolle posted in the Spanish thread that there are motorways in Spain where you don't get a ticket if you enter the the toll motorway at the start, and at the end, if you can't produce a ticket, you're assumed to have travelled the entire motorway. Tickets are only given at the intermediate junctions, where traffic isn't such a big issue. 

Wouldn't this be a great idea for the A4 and A1? They could convert the existing toll plazas to payment-only, allowing an overnight doubling in capacity at the stations, and it would help deal with the usual mess, particularly in Wrocław Bielany.


----------



## rakcancer

ChrisZwolle said:


> and boom! you've got yourself a business.


Exactly!!!


----------



## Kemo

Eulanthe said:


> Speaking of A4 tickets, ChrisZwolle posted in the Spanish thread that there are motorways in Spain where you don't get a ticket if you enter the the toll motorway at the start, and at the end, if you can't produce a ticket, you're assumed to have travelled the entire motorway. Tickets are only given at the intermediate junctions, where traffic isn't such a big issue.
> 
> Wouldn't this be a great idea for the A4 and A1? They could convert the existing toll plazas to payment-only, allowing an overnight doubling in capacity at the stations, and it would help deal with the usual mess, particularly in Wrocław Bielany.


It is not a good idea, you would have to redesign all the junctions to separate the traffic exiting the motorway from both directions.

The only good idea is to get rid of this obsolete "technology" of toll collection and replace it with something suitable for the 21st century...


----------



## bzbox

So this heavy traffic was because of snowy conditions or a lot of people want to spend new year in Tatras?


----------



## Tonik1

bzbox said:


> So this heavy traffic was because of snowy conditions or a lot of people want to spend new year in Tatras?


Both. There is tourist boom in Zakopane and Kraków. Tourist often go there from Kraków.

Also, there is finally snow so you can ski










Around 1st, 2nd of Janurary it can take around 6 hours to drive from Zakopane to Krakow


----------



## Kemo

A little New Year's Eve surprise from GDDKiA 

Apparently, the northern section of Bydgoszcz bypass will be opened today. That is 14.1 km of *S5* motorway between Bydgoszcz-North (DK5) and Bydgoszcz-Opławiec (DK25) 

Map: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/53.2160/18.0162

Some photos by krystiand



>


----------



## dominobb

New routes (highways, expressways and bypasses) opened in 2019.

Amount: 460 km


A1 Częstochowa Północ - Częstochowa Blachownia
 A1 Częstochowa Blachownia - Częstochowa Południe
 A1 Częstochowa Południe - Woźniki
 A1 Woźniki - Pyrzowice

 S11 Szczecinek bypass 
 S17 Kołbiel - Garwolin
 S17 Garwolin - Gończyce
 S17 Gończyce - mazowieckie&lubelskie voivodship border
 S17 lubelskie&mazowieckie voivodship border - Skrudki
 S17 Skrudki - Kurów Zachód
 S5 Poznań Zachód - Mosina
 S5 Mosina - Kościan Południe
 S5 Kościan Południe - Lipno
 S5 Żnin Północ - Mieleszyn
 S5 Bydgoszcz Północ - Bydgoszcz Opławiec
 S51 Olsztyn Wschód - Olsztyn Południe
 S6 Goleniów Północ - Nowogard Zachód
 S6 Nowogard - Płoty
 S6 Płoty - Kiełpino
 S6 Kiełpino - Kołobrzeg Zachód
 S6 Kołobrzeg Zachód - Ustronie Morskie
 S6 Ustronie Morskie - Koszalin&Sianów bypass
 S6 Koszalin&Sianów bypass + S11 Bielice-Koszalin Zachód
 S61 Suwałki bypass
 S7 mazowieckie&świętokrzyskie voivodship border - Skarżysko-Kamienna
 S7 Skomielna Biała - Rabka Zdrój
 S7 Lubień - Naprawa (one lane)
 S8 Radziejowice - Przeszkoda
 S8 Przeszkoda - Paszków

 DK25 Inowrocław bypass (II part)
 DK3/5 Bolków bypass 
 DK46 Myślina bypass 
 DK50/79 Góra Kalwaria bypass 
 DK44 Skawina bypass


----------



## Chris80678

2020 may not bring as many road openings

The most important opening will probably be S2 Warsaw bypass in August (hopefully)

Still Happy New Year to all forum users and to Polska 😘


----------



## panthiocodin

Next year will be only just over 100km of new roads openings. 2021 should be more exciting


----------



## Chris80678

panthiocodin said:


> Next year will be only just over 100km of new roads openings. 2021 should be more exciting


Here's to 2021


----------



## Kemo

dominobb said:


> New routes (highways, expressways and bypasses) opened in 2019.
> 
> Amount: 460 km
> 
> 
> A1 Częstochowa Północ - Częstochowa Blachownia
> A1 Częstochowa Blachownia - Częstochowa Południe
> A1 Częstochowa Południe - Woźniki
> A1 Woźniki - Pyrzowice
> 
> S11 Szczecinek bypass
> S17 Kołbiel - Garwolin
> S17 Garwolin - Gończyce
> S17 Gończyce - mazowieckie&lubelskie voivodship border
> S17 lubelskie&mazowieckie voivodship border - Skrudki
> S17 Skrudki - Kurów Zachód
> S5 Poznań Zachód - Mosina
> S5 Mosina - Kościan Południe
> S5 Kościan Południe - Lipno
> S5 Żnin Północ - Mieleszyn
> S5 Bydgoszcz Północ - Bydgoszcz Opławiec
> S51 Olsztyn Wschód - Olsztyn Południe
> S6 Goleniów Północ - Nowogard Zachód
> S6 Nowogard - Płoty
> S6 Płoty - Kiełpino
> S6 Kiełpino - Kołobrzeg Zachód
> S6 Kołobrzeg Zachód - Ustronie Morskie
> S6 Ustronie Morskie - Koszalin&Sianów bypass
> S6 Koszalin&Sianów bypass + S11 Bielice-Koszalin Zachód
> S61 Suwałki bypass
> S7 mazowieckie&świętokrzyskie voivodship border - Skarżysko-Kamienna
> S7 Skomielna Biała - Rabka Zdrój
> S7 Lubień - Naprawa (one lane)
> S8 Radziejowice - Przeszkoda
> S8 Przeszkoda - Paszków
> 
> DK25 Inowrocław bypass (II part)
> DK3/5 Bolków bypass
> DK46 Myślina bypass
> DK50/79 Góra Kalwaria bypass
> DK44 Skawina bypass


That's just GDDKiA's roads, here are more comprehensive statistics:

Motorways ~407 km (the yesterday's opening is not listed below)


Hetman said:


>



Other roads ~160 km


----------



## Kemo

DW935 Rybnik - Żory. Opening soon



>


Map: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/50.0682/18.5812


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interesting geometry...


----------



## Eulanthe

Kemo said:


> It is not a good idea, you would have to redesign all the junctions to separate the traffic exiting the motorway from both directions.


At least on the A4, you could just put a barrier between the lanes on exit, as there's normally two lanes heading to each toll plaza on exit from the motorway. Most of them look like this, so it's not a problem to put a barrier there. If there's anything that's too big for the intermediate toll plaza, you can simply open a barrier to allow it to cross to the 'oversized' lane on the right. 



> The only good idea is to get rid of this obsolete "technology" of toll collection and replace it with something suitable for the 21st century...


Beats me why we can't move to full numberplate recognition systems with payment within 24 hours or before crossing the border. It would then be enough to have some cameras set up after the last junction (for instance, at Zgorzelec), and if someone hasn't paid, just agree with the German police that they can be pulled over at the old border crossing. 

Either that, or just ViaToll for everyone.

Anyway, rant of the day: I drove Wrocław-Poznań-Wrocław yesterday. Can someone tell me why the signs on the S5 are so absolutely terrible at night? Half of them simply didn't reflect properly at all, and I couldn't read quite a few signs.


----------



## Kemo

Eulanthe said:


> Anyway, rant of the day: I drove Wrocław-Poznań-Wrocław yesterday. Can someone tell me why the signs on the S5 are so absolutely terrible at night? Half of them simply didn't reflect properly at all, and I couldn't read quite a few signs.



This phenomenon is called "condensation of moisture from the air"


----------



## sponge_bob

Kemo said:


> DW935 Rybnik - Żory. Opening soon


What is the design speed of that D2?? Looks like S2 standard possibly twistier and slower with no wide median.


----------



## Kemo

Design speed 70 km/h
Median 3 m


----------



## Niemiec w Polsce

What is the status of the “Italian” sections of S5? When there will be new contracts? The cancellation is already a long time ago.


----------



## x-type

Kemo said:


> DW935 Rybnik - Żory. Opening soon
> 
> 
> 
> Map: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/50.0682/18.5812


Where is the eastern terminus of that new road, A1 or DK81? Because northern bypass of Żory is quite pain in the ass to drive.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Interesting geometry...


Southeastern Silesia is very interesting and surprising part regarding the terrain. When I was coming there (S52 at Cieszyn was my first touch with Polish roads) I expected flat terrain, but what I found there right after border was up and down up and down all the time. Very lovely road to drive


----------



## Kemo

x-type said:


> Where is the eastern terminus of that new road, A1 or DK81?


Corrently there are no plans to upgrade DW935 to higher standard east of A1.



> Because northern bypass of Żory is quite pain in the ass to drive.


Really? I would give it a rather low score in the pain-in-the-ass scale 
The junction with DK81 is a bit problematic, but overall it is not that bad.


----------



## Surel

A few years ago, the Polish A4 was a breeze to ride, now it becomes a traffic hell. It simply can't cope with the traffic anymore it seems. This motorway needs urgently another lane in between Legnica and Katowice. In fact I would make it 4 lanes around Wroclaw counting with the future increase in traffic.

The toll booths are becoming enormous pain in the ass. Whats the point of a fast motorway, when you loose around 40 minutes on the toll booths on entry and exit combined everytime.


----------



## KrakowNH

[S2] Warsaw Southern Bypass



Lutra said:


>


----------



## Kirt93

407 kilometers opened made this year the *2nd best* result in Poland's history. :cheers:
Top 5:


Hetman said:


> 1. 2012 - 617,1 km
> *2. 2019 - 407,4km
> *3. 2018 - 338,3 km
> 4. 2013 - 330,9 km
> 5. 2011 - 306,9 km


The following roads benefited the most from this year's openings:
*S6* (north-western Poland) + 127 km
*S5* (western Poland) + 91 km
*S17* (eastern Poland) + 72 km
*A1* (southern Poland) + 57 km
(In total, 347 km of openings were on these four routes)

______________________________________________________

This year, 2 (3) large Polish cities got connected to the main highway network for the first time ever:

1. *Koszalin* (108'000 population) received an S6 connection to Szczecin (although Szczecin bypass is under reconstruction right now so one could say it's not truly a continuous connection yet). :cheers: Until this year, its area was among several most excluded ones in all of Poland:
- to get west (Szczecin), the citizens of Koszalin needed to drive about 110 km of a single carriageway DK road,
- to get east (Gdańsk), they needed to drive about 150 km of a single carriageway DK road
- to get south (Poznań), they needed to drive about 225 km of a single carriageway DK road.
Now they can drive comfortably in one of the directions at least.

2. *Kielce* (196'000 population) doesn't yet have a continuous A/S connection to the main network, but this year it received a continuous dual carriageway connection (DK7/S7 route to Warsaw) for the first time. :cheers:

3. *Częstochowa* (223'000 population) was one of the first cities to get connected to the dual carriageway "network " of communist Poland, thanks to construction of the Warsaw – Katowice route in 1972–1976. This year, it received its first motorway connection (direction Katowice). :cheers:

_Not fitting into this category, but talking about 2019 it wouldn't feel right to omit a honourable mention to Suwałki. Thanks to finally getting a bypass this year, this insane lorry traffic to/from the Baltic States doesn't go through Suwałki's streets any more._

As of 2020, 5 more 100'000+ cities (out of 39 such cities) are still left without a continuous connection (in any direction) to the rest of Poland by A-roads, S-roads, or 2x2 DK-roads:
*Bydgoszcz* (350'000, Poland's 8th largest city)
*Lublin* (340'000, Poland's 9th largest city)
*Płock*, *Wałbrzych* and *Kalisz* (100'000 – 120'000, 32nd–38th largest).

3 more cities have 2x2 roads connecting them with the network, but are missing their continuous A/S connections:
*Radom* and *Kielce* (a 2x2 section of DK7 to Warsaw)
*Bielsko-Biała* (a 2x2 road DK1 to Katowice).

______________________________________________________

This year, the last remaining fragments (either few or many of them) of a section were opened to traffic on the following routes:

A1 section Częstochowa – Gliwice (A4)
S5 section Poznań – Wrocław
S6 section Szczecin (Goleniów) – Koszalin
S7 section Radom – Kielce
S8 section Piotrków Trybunalski (A1) – Warsaw And with completion of section Wrocław – Łódź in 2014 (interchange with A1 in 2016) and completion of section Warsaw – Białystok in 2018, this year's completion means all parts of S8 on its original route (without an extension to Kłodzko added this year) are done.
______________________________________________________

Almost all of the sections opened this year finished with smaller or larger delays compared to the originally contracted date (the fault might lay with the contractor or with the public side for delays in issuing construction permits or both). Hence, at the end of the year, it's even more worth to recall once again the few cases of constructions completed at very good speeds:

*Strabag, Budimex and Bud-Pol* got contracted with finishing ex-Salini's A1 (Częstochowa bypass) on July 24th. The contract was 50% finished when Salini got ejected. Thanks to the outstanding speed of work by the new contractors, the concrete surface was finished being laid down on all of the main route's length *3 months and 3 weeks later*, and the main route was opened to traffic in 'driveable' state 5 months later.
*Budimex* opened S7 (Skarżysko-Kamienna bypass) in 'driveable' state on December 18th, exactly 5 months before the contracted date in mid-May.
*Budimex* completed S61 (Suwałki bypass) according to the original schedule.

On the opposite end of the spectrum:

S5 Poznań–Wronczyn (Toto Costruzioni's ex-section) was completed this year, with 2 years and 14 days of delay. 
S7 Chęciny–Jędrzejów (Salini's section) still has secondary construction works ongoing, although the main route was opened in 'driveable' state with 1 year of delay. Right now Salini is delayed by 2 years and 45 days and with an end not in sight.
______________________________________________________

The end of 2019 is also the end of the 10s. In the 10s as a whole, about 2830 km of A/S roads got opened (of which about 110 km one carriageway: first or second). This is almost precisely 2 times the sum of lengths for all the years 1936 – 2009 combined. :cheers:

On average, about 277 kilometers per year (counting single carriageways as 50%) were being opened in the 10s.


----------



## rakcancer

Kirt93 said:


> On the opposite end of the spectrum:
> 
> S5 Poznań–Wronczyn (Toto Costruzioni's ex-section) was completed this year, with 2 years and 14 days of delay.
> S7 Chęciny–Jędrzejów (Salini's section) still has secondary construction works ongoing, although the main route was opened in 'driveable' state with 1 year of delay. Right now Salini is delayed by 2 years and 45 days and with an end not in sight.
> ______________________________________________________


That neverending construction site is very "italian style of work" not only in Poland. I am wondering how they can even afford to pretend they are building something for over 2 years...They still have to be present there at construction site...


----------



## HarryMiller

Map of expressways in Poland opened by decade, from 30s to 10s.


----------



## UPR20

Can we have a projection for 2020-2029?


----------



## Kirt93

^^
2020 – 2022: about 900 km (source)

2023 – 2025: would be about 1150 according to the plans, but it's clear quite some of them already have no chance coming in time. I'd guess 1150 including 2026 can be reasonable if there is no worldwide crisis until 2026 (which might be a rather big "if"). Adding to those there's several sections said to be planned in public-private partnership for 2025–2027 openings (those lengths are not included in the document above) but this needs to be taken with a very large grain of salt.

2026(7) – 2029: nobody can tell, because – among all other things – there is still no idea how much EU funds will be available for co-founding of the road infrastructure projects in the new financial perspective.


----------



## sponge_bob

Kirt93 said:


> 2026(7) – 2029: nobody can tell, because – among all other things – there is still no idea how much EU funds will be available for co-founding of the road infrastructure projects in the new financial perspective.


I doubt the EU will fund any new roads after 2027, the way they stopped funding airports after 2013. The one exception might be on Ten-T CORE routes but Poland looks like finishing those ones by 2025 right now. 

The target date is 2030 for completing the Ten-T Core. While there is another target, to finish the Ten T Comprehensive Network by 2050 after the Core is done I do not see the EU funding that later target after 2027. 

It is, however, possible that the Via Carpathia _migh_t be upgraded to a core route before 2027, and qualify for funding thereafter, and there is also a little known new funding category called "Military Cohesion" which could fund some works from 2021 onwards, and presumably even after 2027. 

But the big cheques are almost all cashed (most will by 2023 probably) and I doubt that the 2021-2017 programme will be as generous as the last 2 EU programmes were. 

Note that with a change from N+3 to N+2 _after_ 2022 the current 2013-2020 programme must end in 2023 (3 years later) but the next programme ends in 2029 or 2 years later.


----------



## Kpc21

rakcancer said:


> That neverending construction site is very "italian style of work" not only in Poland. I am wondering how they can even afford to pretend they are building something for over 2 years...They still have to be present there at construction site...


Well...










From the construction of the Hilton hotel in Łódź – the investor had some financial problems but they did everything to make it appear that something is going on at the construction site, from moving sand there and back with an excavator to what you can see in the photo 

So if you want, you can do it.


----------



## rakcancer

:lol:


----------



## HarryMiller

I think that till the end of 20s Poland will have ca. 7000 km and whole network (ca. 8100 km) should be finished to 2033-2034 according to stable tempo of building (200-300 km per year).


----------



## sponge_bob

HarryMiller said:


> I think that till the end of 20s Poland will have ca. 7000 km and whole network (ca. 8100 km) should be finished to 2033-2034 according to stable tempo of building (200-300 km per year).


Well I did predict that a Warsaw Ring and a 'Silesian Megacity Bypass' would inevitably be added to the plan and I was correct about the Warsaw Ring a year later. 

This meant that while 400km was built in 2019 the planned network expanded in 2019 too and _Poland was probably only 100km nearer completing the high capacity network at the end of 2019...rather than 400km_. 

I think everyone expects c. 6000km in the mid 2020s. I certainly do. By 2026, say, there will be another 2400km to do still because I expect the plan will be larger in 2026 than it is today. I think 7000km by 2030 will require a lot of luck though. 

As well as that a goodly amount of the existing network will soon be groaning, the A4 and the A2 will anyway. This will mean that money will have to be diverted to widening from 2025 latest and further money will have to be diverted to maintenance after 2030 as the network will then start to show its age and need resurfacing and long possessions for works. 

Once you deduct money for maintenance and for upgrades from the budget I don't see much more than 100km of new motorway/expressway a year after 2030 and it could well take until 2040 to finish it off. 

This also assumes Poland does not grow some aggressive ecomentalist movement within 10 years who would add huge expense and delays to what should be relatively fast and relatively cheap projects as envisaged now. I would identify and progress the most 'controversial' 500km of expressway as fast as possible by bringing those forward to the mid 2020s, for fear of what ecomentalists would want in the form of tunnels and expensive crap like that if these are left too long.


----------



## Kirt93

sponge_bob said:


> Well I did predict (...) (from west of Katowice to east of Krakow passing north of them) would inevitably be added to the plan and I was correct about the Warsaw Ring a year later.


 Such a connection to Kraków would definitely not be created on the northern side, the landscape there is too difficult and too precious. A bypass to the south of Silesian Metropolis can definitely happen, though, and then it's a good question whether it should return to A4 as quickly as possible or continue somewhere (much?) further east. 



sponge_bob said:


> As well as that a goodly amount of the existing network will soon be groaning, the A4 and the A2 will anyway. This will mean that money will have to be diverted to widening from 2025 latest and further money will have to be diverted to maintenance after 2030 as the network will then start to show its age and need resurfacing and long possessions for works.


Money for maintenance after 2030 is definitely a large sum, but for widenings I'm not sure if we'll see that "goodly amount" of them early, due to two reasons:
1. AADT on the currently busy sections might not actually be that extreme after the network's completion as it would seem from a simple extrapolation today, especially A2 might now be taking quite a share of traffic which wouldn't consider using it if other roads in the network were completed.
2. The era of autonomous vehicles doesn't seem too far away now, and with the growing % of autonomous vehicles on the roads, the capacity of existing roads will be increasing really fast, while possible lack of some A/S road from the planned network would still be just as much a problem as it is now.

A4 Krzyżowa – Wrocław, A4 Katowice – Kraków (incl. Kraków western bypass), A2 Łódź – Warsaw, A1 Łódź eastern bypass, I'm actually not that sure if we'll see any more of A/S roads widened before we're close to done with the (currently) planned network.



sponge_bob said:


> I would identify and progress the most 'controversial' 500km of expressway as fast as possible by bringing those forward to the mid 2020s, for fear of what ecomentalists would want in the form of tunnels and expensive crap like that if these are left too long.


This is not a bad idea, but at the moment it's not much to do. All the currently planned sections, with sole exception of S7 Kraków – Myślenice, are in the works already, even if at the earliest stage ("Studium Korytarzowe") and while obviously some pressure might speed up or slow down some bits of the process, to a large extent the time by which a given section might be opened is independent of a conscious choice now. What was happening through 2019 was basically that whenever a section of a road got out of pre-design, it was put to tender almost instantly. At the moment the problem is more about too few sections with pre-design finished as opposed to a there being too many sections and needing to choose which of them can wait and which shouldn't wait.


----------



## sponge_bob

Kirt93 said:


> Money for maintenance after 2030 is definitely a large sum, but for widenings I'm not sure if we'll see many of them as early, due to two reasons:
> 1. Before we're close to done with the network, it's not really that clear what the AADT would eventually be. Especially A2 might now be taking quite a share of directions which wouldn't consider using it if the network was completed.
> 2. The era of autonomous vehicles doesn't seem extremely far away now, and with the growing % of autonomous vehicles on the roads, the capacity of existing roads will be increasing fast, while lack of some A/S road will still be a problem just as much as it is now.


2 entirely separate issues. I will answer in turn. A "goodly amount" is a _not small amoun_t but I don't know how much so look at point one. 

1. Nobody knows what AADT is in Poland, it is a _Major _failing. There will be a UNECE census in 2020 (thank God) but real time data is urgently required like in most other countries. 

2. I think full autonomy is a bit like nuclear fusion bar a number, it is _always_ 10 years away. What near or full autonomy will certainly do is increase the separation between cars so that 100 cars in a lane will take up MORE lane space than they do now. So a road network that can handle 10m cars today will need around 100% more lane space in '10 years time' ....whenever that is. Obviously you can get half of that space by retrofitting to 3+3 everywhere. 




> (sensitive areas) This is not a bad idea, but at the moment it's not much to do. All the currently planned sections, with sole exception of S7 Kraków – Myślenice, are in the works already


Then push them even harder. If you have 500km of potentially 'sensitive' roads at ~€5m a km now then assume that the econutters will turn that into €50m a km if given any chance. That mathematically turns €2.5bn into €25bn if you are not careful and if you think this sort of number is mad then look at the prices quoted in the UK where some 'sensitive' schemes are beyond €100m a km just to keep the nutters relatively quiet.


----------



## Kanadzie

^^ ^^
I'm not sure if autonomous vehicles will improve road capacity usage. I think, probably unlikely to happen for a long time if ever just from liability reasons and difficulty in reliable vehicle-to-vehicle communications. But I agree in theory, is possible.


----------



## Kirt93

1. Yes, 5 years between 2015 measurement and 2020 measurement is quite too long when the network changes so quickly 

(However 2020 measurement will be conducted on all DK and DW (voivodeship) roads in Poland, just like the 2015 measurement was, not only on those roads where the results are needed for UNECE) 

2. Why? Autonomous cars don't take human reaction time into the equation, and on highways human reaction time is a major reason why the distances need to be so "ridiculously" large. (Of course if now someone doesn't keep a safe distance then his particular vehicle will be taking more space, but contrary to a stereotype even in Poland those not keeping safe distance are not over 50% of the population).



sponge_bob said:


> Then push them even harder. If you have 500km of potentially 'sensitive' roads at ~€5m a km now then assume that the econutters will turn that into €50m a km if given any chance. That mathematically turns €2.5bn into €25bn if you are not careful and if you think this sort of number is mad then look at the prices quoted in the UK where some 'sensitive' schemes are beyond €100m a km just to keep the nutters relatively quiet.


Yes, I'm not saying they shouldn't push them, just that with many sections' timeline there's not much which can be changed now, they're on their track and the only thing they can achieve is not slowing it down. But for example it could be that the push for S19 Białystok – Belarus is to some extent just for this reason: "well, maybe it's not the most important section to be built right now, but let's try our best now because later on it'll only be harder".


----------



## sponge_bob

Kirt93 said:


> 2. Why? Autonomous cars don't take human reaction time into the equation, and on highways human reaction time is a major reason why the distances need to be so "ridiculously" large. (Of course if now someone doesn't keep a safe distance then his particular vehicle will be taking more space, but contrary to a stereotype even in Poland those not keeping safe distance are not over 50% of the population).


Insurance Companies will make them. Otherwise the car manufacturers will be bankrupted. Remember with no driver any more then you gotta sue General Motors instead. 

Anyway this is not a particularly Polish problem but there may be 'winter' and 'summer' separation parameters as well and the Polish winter is long. The rule is...ya can't have too many roads.


----------



## Kemo

*S19:* Niedrzwica Duża – Kraśnik-North 20.0km (January 2020 to June 2021) project / OSM

*S19:* Rudnik nad Sanem – Nisko-South 6.0km (January 2020 to October 2021) project / OSM

*S7:* Lesznowola – Tarczyn-North 14.8km (January 2020 to April 2021) project / OSM


----------



## Kemo

Contracts for two remaining section of S61 _Via Baltica_ have been signed today.

These are the sections where Impresa Pizzarotti and Rubau got kicked out in May 2019.


----------



## sponge_bob

Kemo said:


> Contracts for two remaining section of S61 _Via Baltica_ have been signed today.


That prompted me to look at the EU core corridors in Poland, of which there are 2. 

One is Rotterdam<>Tallinn via Warsaw and that decision means all of it is now built or contracted. A branch from Warsaw to the Belarus border, the A2, is not all contracted yet. 

The other north south corridor Trieste <> Gdansk is built or almost contracted along its west branch, the A1 on the CZ border to Wroclaw to the Baltic coast along the S3 There is an east branch Katowice to Warsaw to Gdansk where some sections are not yet tendered on the S7 north of Warsaw. The middle bit, the A1, is well done bar upgrades. 

Otherwise Poland is very close to completing all EU core corridors and could yet do do by 2025. The target date is 2030 for all EU countries. An EU core corridor road should be a minimum expressway. 

I recalculated the 'growth' in the plan by the way. In 2004 Poland came up with its first plan for 7200km and last year that plan grew to 8200km, 15 years later. 

1000km growth to the plan in 15 years is +66km a year. Therefore if Poland completes less than 66km a year, in any given year, then the network actually shrinks. Relatively.


----------



## Kirt93

sponge_bob said:


> its west branch, the A1 on the CZ border to Wroclaw to the Baltic coast along the S3 There is an east branch Katowice to Warsaw to Gdansk where some sections are not yet tendered on the S7 north of Warsaw. The middle bit, the A1, is well done bar upgrades.


Well, if you count DK1 as done bar upgrades, then DK7 north of Warsaw is also a dual carriageway.  Here's the above map with added dual carriageway sections (not all DC roads in Poland of course, just those relevant to the A/S network):









(grey is for 2x2 roads which are now temporarily single carriageway due to reconstruction). But yes, otherwise it's one of those sections which is surely in danger with respect to a 2025 opening as expressway.


----------



## sponge_bob

Kirt93 said:


> But yes, otherwise it's one of those sections which is surely in danger with respect to a 2025 opening as expressway.


Don't worry, there are large missing sections in that corridor between Vienna and Brno so Poland is far more compliant with the Ten-T Core network programme overall.


----------



## HarryMiller

^^
^^
Thanks for updating and second version 

In Poland we call these "gray" roads "gierkówki" because of Edward Gierek, made during his rule in 70s and 80s. 
One exception is 18, one lane was made in 2000s, but the second lane was made by Nazi Germany and now is totally destroyed.


----------



## Tonik1

Chyżne border crossing (Poland-Slovakia) still blocked by Slovakians protesting against toll prices increase

















































https://twitter.com/GDDKiA_Krakow?r...granicy-polsko-slowackiej-kierowcy-protestuja


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A protest against the Slovak or Polish tolls?


----------



## Tonik1

Slovak. One driver says he will pay 17k euro for tolls. Also they say not much money collecte from tolls is used for construction of new roads. Also they complain about transport companies from Poland.


----------



## yoggy52

Yeah. From every 1 euro that was earned from tolls, 48 cents went to the private owned company SkyToll, which is responsible for maintaining the system. So in the last 10 years we sent that company about 760mio euro. :lol: And all ties are leading to the SMER (leading party), it is only one of many billion euro worth corruption cases. :lol: Btw. czechia will pay for maintaing the toll system only about 45mio euro per year and country is quite bigger than slovakia... (Slovak and czech tolls maintainers companies have same owner)


----------



## RipleyLV

Wtf?? Well, the transit will go via CZ and they will be winners unless they come up with something as well.


----------



## rudiwien

sponge_bob said:


> Don't worry, there are large missing sections in that corridor between Vienna and Brno so Poland is far more compliant with the Ten-T Core network programme overall.



There are ~32km missing, from Poysbrunn (end of Austrian A5) to south of Pohořelice, end of Czech R52.
It's a bottleneck, no doubt, but not a "large section" 

(Yes, one could argue that 52 within Brno is not a motorway - it's not, but it is up to the standard of any urban motorway, in regards to speed limits for sure, and the driving experience is e.g. definitely better than on A23 within Vienna...)


----------



## HarryMiller

In current version of the plan there are together with A+S roads planned national roads 25 Ostrów-Kalisz-Konin (50 km) and 75 Brzesko-Nowy Sącz (50 km) to upgrade into expressway standard, which could be in new version of the plan upgraded into S (S25 and S75), but I don't think that any new roads will be added.


----------



## WojteDz

https://motoryzacja.interia.pl/rapo...e-117-km-drog,nId,4253835#iwa_source=worthsee


----------



## SRC_100

^^
Let me translate into English most important information from given article:


> *GDDKiA plans to provide to drivers at least 116.8 km of new roads this year - GDDKiA announced in a press release on Friday. There are currently 1003.8 km of new roads under construction.*
> 
> List of roads to be commissioned in 2020:
> A2 - j. Lubelska - j. Konik (5,6 km)
> A2 - j. Konik - beginning of Mińsk Mazowiecki bypass (9,2 km)
> S5 - Bydgoszcz Opławiec - Bydgoszcz Błonia (13,5 km)
> S5 - Szubin Północ - Żnin Północ (19,3 km)
> S10 - Kobylanka, Morzyczyn & Zieleniewo bypass - 2nd carriageway (6,4 km)
> S17 - j. Lubelska - beginning of Kołbiel bypass (15,2 km)
> S17 Kołbiel bypass (8,7 km)
> S61 Szczuczyna bypass - 2nd carriageway (6,6 km)
> Sanok bypass along DK28 (6,7 km)
> Dąbrowy Tarnowskiej bypass along DK73 (6,9 km)
> Wałcza bypass along S10 (17,8 km)
> Węgorzyna bypass along DK20 (1 km)
> 
> GDDKiA also strives to make available all three sections of the S2 Warsaw southern bypass in 2020 (18,5 km)


map in better resolution


----------



## SRC_100

@winkiel82 made a great video of tunnel section under Ursynów district along S2 - Warsaw southern bypass


winkiel82 said:


>


........................................................................................................................................................








Today, the next, fourth decision was issued - permission for the implementation of the road investment (ZRID) for the *S6 *expressway between Bożepole Wielkie and Gdynia. The decision concerns the Bożepole Wielkie - Luzino section and has immediate enforceability.


----------



## rakcancer

*S7*
Polaqua company has been chosen to design and build last remaining section of S7 south of Warsaw. 2x3 - 6.6km
source:
https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/36293/Jeszcze-jeden-krok-i-rozpoczynamy-budowe-S7-Lotnisko-Lesznowola



*S2*
There is growing rumor that tunnel section of warsaw southern bypass built by Italian Alstadi is not going to be finished before planned deadline (August 2020). They may need another year or even longer to finish it.
source:
http://www.tokfm.pl/Tokfm/7,103085,...udniowej-obwodnicy-warszawy-samorzadowcy.html


----------



## sponge_bob

I was thinking that tunnel has a long way to go to the finish, on the other hand it is Astaldi and they will finish it off in the end. Is there any explanation of what caused the delays????



rakcancer said:


> *S2*
> There is growing rumor that tunnel section of warsaw southern bypass built by Italian Astaldi is not going to be finished before planned deadline (August 2020). They may need another year or even longer to finish it.
> source:
> http://www.tokfm.pl/Tokfm/7,103085,...udniowej-obwodnicy-warszawy-samorzadowcy.html





SRC_100 said:


> @winkiel82 made a great video of tunnel section under Ursynów district along S2 - Warsaw southern bypass


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I must say the schedule for such a long urban tunnel was quite ambitious. Such tunnels typically require quite some testing before they can open safely and tunnel construction in urban areas is complex due to the amout of utilities and underground infrastructure.


----------



## rakcancer

^^
I don't want to say anything because I may be seen as biased against certain companies from certain countries...


----------



## Kemo




----------



## dominobb

HarryMiller said:


> In current version of the plan there are together with A+S roads planned national roads 25 Ostrów-Kalisz-Konin (50 km) and 75 Brzesko-Nowy Sącz (50 km) to upgrade into expressway standard, which could be in new version of the plan upgraded into S (S25 and S75), but I don't think that any new roads will be added.


There is no any official info about that - upgrade to expressways is only a wish of some skyscrapercity members. Nothing more.

------

*Official tenders plan for 2020*
https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/3636...owania-na-realizacje-ponad-353-km-nowych-drog

A2 Siedlce Zachód - Łukowisko (36,5 km)
A2 Łukowisko - Biała Podlaska (27 km)
A18 Olszyna - Golnice (16,24 km)
A18 Luboszów - Golnice (21,53 km)
S6 Koszalin and Sianów bypass - 6+400 to km 14+300 (7,9 km)
S7 Miechów - Szczepanowice (5,32 km)
S12 Chełm bypass (17 km)
S17 Drewnica - Ząbki (3,6 km)
S19 Kuźnica - Sokółka (17 km)
S19 Krynice (istn. DK65) - Dobrzyniewo (4,44 km)
S19 Dobrzyniewo - Białystok Zachód (5,67 km)
S19 Białystok Zachód - Białystok Księżyno (16,65 km)
S19 Białystok Księżyno - Białystok Południe + DK65 (21,63 km)
S19 Białystok Południe - Ploski (12,73 km)
S19 Ploski - Haćki (8,89 km)
S19 Haćki - Bielsk Podlaski Zachód + DK66 (14,96 km)
S19 Bielsk Podlaski Zachód - Boćki (12,19 km)
S19 Boćki - Osmola (11,94 km)
S19 Osmola - Leszczka (13,61 km)
S19 Leszczka - Chlebczyn (15,38 km)
S19 Lublin Rudnik - Lubartów Północ (23,81 km)
S19 Iskrzynia - Miejsce Piastowe (11,1 km)
S19 Miejsce Piastowe - Dukla (10,4 km)
S74/DK9 Opatów bypass (14,9 km)
DK75 Brzesko - Nowy Sącz - II park of bypass (2,99 km)

==353 km


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I can see it becoming S25 eventually. Remember that S16 and S52 were not originally planned as expressways either, but as class GP roads with four lanes. It seems that length of the DK25 upgrade makes it worthwhile to pursue an S-classification.


----------



## yoggy52

This and next year we will hear about S19 a lot. :cheers:


----------



## rakcancer

Basically there is nothing else beside S19 and A2 east of Warsaw....TOTAL shift to the east.
Looks like the rest of S6 is abandoned. No progres on S10 even between Torun and Bydgoszcz, no S11 at all, no S16...


----------



## sponge_bob

rakcancer said:


> Basically there is nothing else beside S19 and A2 east of Warsaw....TOTAL shift to the east..


----------



## sponge_bob

dominobb said:


> *Official tenders plan for 2020*


How come the Italian Jobs are not being tendered for completion???


----------



## Kirt93

sponge_bob said:


> How come the Italian Jobs are not being tendered for completion???


– 2 contracts (1 x Salini, 1 x TOTO) were resumed without tender and/or split into mini-tenders and are now opened/driveable,
– 4 contracts (2 x Salini, 1 x Rubau, 1 x Pizzarotti) have their tenders for completion finished, and new contracts have been signed,
– 7 contracts (3 x Pizzarotti, 3 x Energopol, 1 x Rubau) have their tenders for completion ongoing. 
There are no more tenders for aborted contracts left (except for Koszalin bypass which is a different story).



rakcancer said:


> Basically there is nothing else beside S19 and A2 east of Warsaw....TOTAL shift to the east.


Lowest density of A/S sections opened since forever until 2019 per voivodeship, per area:
1. Podlaskie (Białystok voivodeship) 5,4 km / 1000 km^2,
2. Lubelskie (Lublin voivodeship) 5,7 km / 1000 km^2, also 2nd worst if counted per population rather than per area,
3. All other voivodeships at least 8,9 km / 1000 km^2 or more.


----------



## sponge_bob

Kirt93 said:


> There are no more tenders for aborted contracts left (except for Koszalin bypass which is a different story).


That was quick, well done. 


> 3. All other voivodeships at least 8,9 km / 1000 km^2 or more.


You have a bit to go there, the Netherlands has 64km per 1000km^2


----------



## HarryMiller

Per capita we will overtake the Netherlands in next two years  (they have 2000 km per 16 million people, it's like Poland would have 5000 km per 40 million people, which we'll have in begin of 2022). :troll:


----------



## Kirt93

^^ Well, if talking per area it mostly makes sense to talk "kilometers of a highway / 1000 km^2", as it gives some very rough approximation of how far it's needed to drive before reaching a highway (it's very rough approximation because what we would truly like to know is the expected value of such driving distance for an average citizen of a given territory, and that's impossible to estimate in such a straightforward manner). If you compare per capita, it'll make more sense to talk "kilometers of _highway lane_ / 10^6 citizens": it might need a bit more time to catch up to the Netherlands with respect to this metric. :troll:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Netherlands has short distances to reach motorways, in most of the country this is not more than 15-20 kilometers, and the proportion of population living within 10-15 kilometers of a motorway is really high. 

Poland surpassed the Dutch motorway network length in late 2013 and is now far ahead.


----------



## Proterra

HarryMiller said:


> Per capita we will overtake the Netherlands in next two years  (they have 2000 km per 16 million people, it's like Poland would have 5000 km per 40 million people, which we'll have in begin of 2022). :troll:


I think rather than comparing the Netherlands to Poland, we should compare it to Mazowsze - it has roughly the same geography in the interior parts, it's roughly the same size, although it's population is three times as large. As a matter of fact, the distances between Warszawa (the Masovian equivalent of Randstad) and the four main cities outside Warszawa; Radom, Płock, Siedlce and Ostrołęka are pretty much equal to Eindhoven, Arnhem, Nijmegen and Groningen.


----------



## rakcancer

Kirt93 said:


> Lowest density of A/S sections opened since forever until 2019 per voivodeship, per area:
> 1. Podlaskie (Białystok voivodeship) 5,4 km / 1000 km^2,
> 2. Lubelskie (Lublin voivodeship) 5,7 km / 1000 km^2, also 2nd worst if counted per population rather than per area,
> 3. All other voivodeships at least 8,9 km / 1000 km^2 or more.


This is just statistics, who cares about highway density in voivodeships beside politicians? So then maybe better look what is population density first?
Distance between Bialystok and Lublin - two biggest cities in the east is very long and S19 will go there along very low populated area. This stretch should be really build as the last one. At the same time Bydgoszcz is still cut off the highway network. It has no connection to Torun. These two cities are very close and its total population is around 600K. Along S10 there is no connection with Plock - important industrial city ... Bielsko-Biala also important industrial city still has no S1 towards Katowice. No mention places like Slupsk on S6.
My point is not rejecting whole S19. For sure there is a need to build connection which is happening now between Rzeszow and Lublin but going up north towards Bialystok I don't think is the priority at the present. The same with A2: up to Siedlce it has perfect sense. Further east not really at the moment...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Białystok - Lublin is also possible via Warsaw for the time being, although it is 100 kilometers longer and the eastern ring road is still missing. 

I can see the usefulness of S19 but its problem is the lack of other cities between Białystok and Lublin. It's a 250 kilometer stretch of road with no larger cities except for the endpoints. This also translates to low traffic volumes on DK19, 10,000 vehicles per day is only reached in the vicinity of Białystok and Lublin, it drops below 5,000 on quite a long stretch in the middle, even dipping to 3,500. This of course is based on the 2015 traffic volume count by GDDKiA.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Piotrków Trybunalski*

The A1 construction at Piotrków Trybunalski looks like a disaster zone for traffic flow, judging by Google Maps traffic, there is a gridlock the entire day.

This screenshot was taken around 6:30 p.m., but right now (7:30) it looks pretty much the same. Edit: 9:30, still over half an hour delay.


----------



## dominobb

ChrisZwolle said:


> I can see it becoming S25 eventually. Remember that S16 and S52 were not originally planned as expressways either, but as class GP roads with four lanes. It seems that length of the DK25 upgrade makes it worthwhile to pursue an S-classification.


Before the upgrade DK52 and DK16 were designed as S class roads. DK25 is being designed only as a GP.

*sponge_bob*: There is no proven relationship between high class roads and the unemployment rate.


----------



## Stuu

Random question: Why does Krośniewice have such a good bypass when none of the roads leading to it are very important or likely to be upgraded soon?


----------



## sponge_bob

dominobb said:


> *sponge_bob*: There is no proven relationship between high class roads and the unemployment rate.


You are right, I was trying to point out that the east is the only place with _some_ surplus labour left to build roads.


----------



## Proterra

Stuu said:


> Random question: Why does Krośniewice have such a good bypass when none of the roads leading to it are very important or likely to be upgraded soon?


You see DK91 and DK92 coming through there? Before the A1 and A2 were built, these were national road 1 from Trójmiasto to Silesia and national road 2 from Berlin via Poznań to Warszawa. *Basically the two most important routes in the country.* 

Those met on Plać Wolności in Krośniewice. Traffic in that tiny town must've been apocalyptic.

Of course, after the A2 was finished to Łódź, most of the east-west traffic went through Stryków and then road nr. 14, and this I do remember, that in 2008 they actually completed a tiny bit of A1 just to get the traffic out of Stryków - I had a girlfriend in Łódź back then and was visiting the place rather often.

And now, probably like some 20 years later, it appears like a random bypass for a village in the middle of nowhere, but believe me, both villagers and drivers alike were probably very happy when it was constructed.


----------



## Stuu

Proterra said:


> You see DK91 and DK92 coming through there? Before the A1 and A2 were built, these were national road 1 from Trójmiasto to Silesia and national road 2 from Berlin via Poznań to Warszawa. *Basically the two most important routes in the country.*
> 
> Those met on Plać Wolności in Krośniewice. Traffic in that tiny town must've been apocalyptic.
> 
> Of course, after the A2 was finished to Łódź, most of the east-west traffic went through Stryków and then road nr. 14, and this I do remember, that in 2008 they actually completed a tiny bit of A1 just to get the traffic out of Stryków - I had a girlfriend in Łódź back then and was visiting the place rather often.
> 
> And now, probably like some 20 years later, it appears like a random bypass for a village in the middle of nowhere, but believe me, both villagers and drivers alike were probably very happy when it was constructed.


Ok thanks for the detailed explanation


----------



## Kemo

dominobb said:


> Befere the upgrade DK52 and DK16 were designed as a S class roads. DK25 is being designed only as a GP.


There is arguably any difference in this case. DK25 is designed as 2x2 grade-separated road with design speed of 100 km/h. Hard shoulder is 1.5 m, but changing it should not be an issue.
(Actually, S19 near Slovakia will not have hard shouder at all, so... obviously hard shoulder is not an issue)


----------



## TarRoad

Just out of curiosity what are the official differences between expressways and autostradas?

I've seen that 'S' roads have bus stops, is this still the case for new builds? 
Also that they can be built over existing highway is this true?


----------



## Kpc21

Motorway:
– junctions only with main fast traffic roads, expressways and motorways, exceptionally with main roads
– distances between consecutive junctions not smaller than 15 km, or 5 km in urban areas (exceptionally 5 km in non-urban and 3 km in urban areas)
– must have alarm telephones installed
– for the design speed of 120 kph: lane width – 3.75 m, hard shoulder width – 3 m, maximum slope gradient 4%
– currently none of them is planned to be a toll road

Expressway:
– possible junctions or intersections with main roads, junctions with main fast traffic roads, expressways or motorways, exceptionally possible right-turn only intersections with collector roads
– distances between consectuive junctions not smaller than 5 km, or 3 km in urban areas (exceptionally 3 km in non-urban and 1.5 km in urban areas)
– for the design speed of 120 kph, double-carriageway: lane width – 3.5 m, hard shoulder width – 2.5 m, maximum slope gradient 4%
– may be single-carriageway

There are also differences in the signage sizes. And the default directional signage on expressways is much worse, but now they are trying out the "experimental" one also on some of the newly built expressways.


----------



## yoggy52

Is there any chance for increasing maximum speed limit on expressways?


----------



## Kpc21

Why? Many European countries have 120 kph limit on their motorways... And this limit has already been increased twice within the last 20 years. I remember when it was 100 kph on expressways and 120 kph on motorways.

Now what is planned is to decrease the speed limit on normal roads in the built-up area at night (from 11 PM to 5 AM) from 60 kph to 50 kph.


----------



## RipleyLV

I think there should be created a FAQ in this sub-section. The same topics are discussed almost every month or at least once in a while.


----------



## Eulanthe

rakcancer said:


> For sure there is a need to build connection which is happening now between Rzeszow and Lublin but going up north towards Bialystok I don't think is the priority at the present.


Rzeszów-Lublin makes sense as to provide a decent connection from Warsaw to Ukraine, but as you say, there's no sense in going further north. Both Lublin and Białystok are looking towards Warsaw, not each other. If you're talking about transit traffic LT->UA/SK, then it's not really much further via Warsaw and the S61 - less than 100km. It's marginal at best.



> The same with A2: up to Siedlce it has perfect sense. Further east not really at the moment...


I'd go with A2 to Siedlce, plus A2 bypasses of Biała Podlaska and Miedzyrzec Podlaski. Biała Podlaska wouldn't need much work, but maybe Zbuczyn could be bypassed with a short A2 section too.

I'd also upgrade DK68 in Terespol to S68 and get the agreement of the Belarusians to open it to all traffic.


----------



## PovilD

Eulanthe said:


> Rzeszów-Lublin makes sense as to provide a decent connection from Warsaw to Ukraine, but as you say, there's no sense in going further north. Both Lublin and Białystok are looking towards Warsaw, not each other. If you're talking about transit traffic LT->UA/SK, then it's not really much further via Warsaw and the S61 - less than 100km. It's marginal at best.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd go with A2 to Siedlce, plus A2 bypasses of Biała Podlaska and Miedzyrzec Podlaski. Biała Podlaska wouldn't need much work, but maybe Zbuczyn could be bypassed with a short A2 section too.
> 
> I'd also upgrade DK68 in Terespol to S68 and get the agreement of the Belarusians to open it to all traffic.


There is a bus route from Lithuania to Lviv in Ukraine. Currently it goes through Bialystok and Lublin via DK19.

I don't know if they change that when expressways to Warsaw will be completed.

From Lithuanian perspective, more expressways that connect Lithuania, the better. Like S16 to Gdansk or Poznan/Berlin and S19 Lublin/Ukraine/Slovakia/Romania.
Along with Via Baltica S61 to Warsaw and South Poland of course.

I wonder what should be time differences with Bialystok-Warsaw-Lublin and DK19 Bialystok-Lublin.


----------



## Kpc21

The Ukrainian bus carriers (now in Łódź, which is central Poland, we have nearly as many international bus departures to Ukraine as domestic ones) tend to follow long and not really straight routes, so that they can stop in as many cities and towns as they can.


----------



## rakcancer

PovilD said:


> From Lithuanian perspective, more expressways that connect Lithuania, the better. Like S16 to Gdansk or Poznan/Berlin and S19 Lublin/Ukraine/Slovakia/Romania.
> Along with Via Baltica S61 to Warsaw and South Poland of course.
> .


So, I would say: enjoy Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians - that S19 is for you... however there is still missing link between Bialystok and Suwalk. Going through Warsaw will be still better option for you. In that case I am not sure who is going to benefit from that S19 stretch beside few Bialystok -Lublin drivers...


----------



## rakcancer

GDDKiA just started periodical traffic volume count on national roads (outside of urban areas).
This count is performed every 5 years.
Source:
https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/36380/Rozpoczynamy-GPR-2020


----------



## Eulanthe

EnterName said:


> Remember it's a whole mechanism. Increase in minimum wage creates both demand for increase in middle level wages and pressure for inflation. Even though wages in the sector doesn't really depend on national minimum wages, it could still impact for the reason I've mention and taxes, prices, small business costs, etc.


Not to mention suppliers. While those working on the sites might not earn less than 4000PLN/gross a month, the guys doing the menial labour elsewhere in the supply chain will.


----------



## keber

Kemo said:


> The Chinese are trying to enter Polish construction market with dumping prices.


Clear dumping as for example in Croatia Chinese are not always the cheapest and if they are then not by a big margin.


----------



## Grzegorz.Janoszka

keber said:


> Clear dumping as for example in Croatia Chinese are not always the cheapest and if they are then not by a big margin.


And have they actually finished already one big road/railroad project in EU?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Chinese companies are also working on bridge projects in Norway. I believe all of them were delayed and the largest one (bridge near Narvik) had deficiencies.


----------



## Proterra

I'd just go with Budimex and to hell that they're a billion over budget. At least they would get done on time, everyone gets paid on time and there would be little to no complaints.


----------



## geogregor

Proterra said:


> I'd just go with Budimex and to hell that they're a billion over budget. At least they would get done on time, everyone gets paid on time and there would be little to no complaints.


The problem is that if you start going with contractors because you "like" them, despite the budgets and tenders, you can kiss good bye to reasonable costs in the future...


----------



## Kirt93

And to EU funds.


----------



## rakcancer

geogregor said:


> The problem is that if you start going with contractors because you "like" them, despite the budgets and tenders, you can kiss good bye to reasonable costs in the future...


But you can construct tender rules the way at least to exclude all "dumping price companies" by putting more pressure on factors like experience on EU markets, size or bad/good history of each company on own market instead of just almost pure cost factor.


----------



## geogregor

rakcancer said:


> But you can construct tender rules the way at least to exclude all "dumping price companies" by putting more pressure on factors like experience on EU markets, size or bad/good history of each company on own market instead of just almost pure cost factor.


Many have tried... 

There are already rules and requirements of having EU-experienced staff, bank guarantees, need for management which done similar jobs etc.

But you will never devise 100% foolproof system or rules.


----------



## Proterra

geogregor said:


> The problem is that if you start going with contractors because you "like" them, despite the budgets and tenders, you can kiss good bye to reasonable costs in the future...


Fair point. But there should be a way that past performance, including timely pay of subcontractors, timely delivery of projects and so on should be weighed in in a sort of "credit" score that can be taken along in the process. Now this project doesn't seem _*that*_ important - although I'm sure it is for the people living in Krosno and Sanok, but still, I'd personally rather see for the more important projects, a billion more being spent on a contractor like Budimex with say, a 95% rating than say a company like Impresa Pizzarotti which would have like a 50% rating due to their inability to finish projects on time or at all.


----------



## geogregor

Proterra said:


> Fair point. But there should be a way that past performance, including timely pay of subcontractors, timely delivery of projects and so on should be weighed in in a sort of "credit" score that can be taken along in the process. Now this project doesn't seem _*that*_ important - although I'm sure it is for the people living in Krosno and Sanok, but still, *I'd personally rather see for the more important projects, a billion more being spent on a contractor like Budimex* with say, a 95% rating than say a company like Impresa Pizzarotti which would have like a 50% rating due to their inability to finish projects on time or at all.


I noticed that many users on Polish forum love Budimex. Sure, they do mostly good job. But throwing extra billion on every contract is not the right way. 

Which projects would you cut to get those extra billions here and there? Poland doesn't have unlimited road budget.

As for the past performance it is good idea, but difficult to implement. For a start you often have mix of contractors not a one company on most of the contracts. Then companies have different subsidiaries, changing structures etc. How far in the past do you go? What about new companies? 

I would argue that what matter more is good project management and oversight on part of the Polish road authority. So when they see problems they can react quicker rather than wait for months.


----------



## erimer

*Poland to shell out billions on ring roads*

https://www.polskieradio.pl/395/778..._4ZUDrRci-fx9IILFwvGqZg6MtSC7ELX5Lf41FOTvioGA

They will use 6 billions Euro on new ring roads.
Interesting


----------



## rakcancer

*S19*

It looks like Ministry of Infrastructure finally made the decision toward confirming new alignment of S19 between Bialystok and Kuznica (border with BY). For years it was planned to build that stretch much more to the north of Bialystok. That, originally planned very weird in shape and distance stretch would serve only very limited areas, mostly for transit from Belarus. After taking into consideration opinions of local citizens, they are now working on environmental decision for new S19 alignment which will go along existing DK19 in much more straight line between Bialystok and town of Sokolka (dashed lines on map). Because new S19 will go through heavily forested areas the issue of environmental decision will take time (before the end of 2020).
Source:
https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/3659...-podlaskiego-ma-podpisane-Programy-Inwestycji


----------



## rakcancer

*S1*

Chinese companies keep trying to get slice of polish motorways construction market.
This time China State Construction Engineering Corporation offered lowest bid for constructing 13km of S1 between Myslowice and Oswiecim in southern Poland though tender is still in process. No winner is announced at the present yet.
Source:
https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/36642/9-chetnych-na-budowe-S1-od-Myslowic-do-Oswiecimia


----------



## Eulanthe

The A2 will increase in price again between Nowy Tomyśl and Konin - now it will be 66PLN, up from 60PLN.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What is their policy for raising toll rates? Are they allowed by law to raise it to anything they like? Do they raise it every year or only every few years? 60 to 66 PLN is a 10% increase, which is probably considerably higher than inflation, right?

Normally you'd see an annual consumer price indexation OR a larger raise to finance something - as agreed upon by government.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Katowice*

Nice photo:










It is a huge detour to follow A1+A4 to Katowice, which is around 40 kilometers longer than taking the exit at Piekary Śląskie and drive on urban roads to Katowice. 

It made me wonder, are there plans for a 'spur' route from A1 to Katowice? S1 will pass quite far to the east and results in zig-zag traffic (first west of Częstochowa and then east of Katowice).


----------



## sponge_bob

ChrisZwolle said:


> It made me wonder, are there plans for a 'spur' route


S11?


----------



## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> It made me wonder, are there plans for a 'spur' route from A1 to Katowice? S1 will pass quite far to the east and results in zig-zag traffic (first west of Częstochowa and then east of Katowice).


Yes, it is called obwodnica Chorzowa (Chorzów bypass) or the new alignment of DK79. It even has some documentation ready.
Unfortunately, it will not be built anytime soon, because it is expensive, the government will not finance it* and the cities do not have enough money. 

*Because Chorzów, Bytom and Katowice are cities with _powiat_ rights and the government does not finance roads tn such cities (except for motorways)


At least the existing DK79 through Chorzów is not that bad to drive. It has 2x2 lanes and "green wave". Of course you get traffic jams where it meets DTŚ in Katowice.


----------



## Luki_SL

There is plan to build Chorzów bypass (DK79). The project is cancelled until money will be find. 
 Chorzów Bypass


----------



## bzbox

This S2 bypass looks like it is being built in Russia or Ukraine with all those communist block of flats around.


----------



## Kemo

That's right. This is Ursynów, the whole neighbourhood was built in the '70s and '80s. It's a good thing that they planned the motorway back then and left space reservation.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Most of that area looks reasonably modern to me. 

Apartment towers from that era often poorly regarded in Western Europe due to their association with low income / unemployed and high crime rates. The French _Banlieues_ are legendary.


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

Ursynów is an affluent discrict (on average). Very medium class.


----------



## Kpc21

ChrisZwolle said:


> Apartment towers from that era often poorly regarded in Western Europe due to their association with low income / unemployed and high crime rates.


In Poland these social classes are rather associated with the tenement houses in city centers and other old districts.


----------



## baczek333

bzbox said:


> This S2 bypass looks like it is being built in Russia or Ukraine with all those communist block of flats around.


Well, it's quite flattering that people already forgot Poland was also a communist country.


----------



## Don Vito KurDeBalanz

baczek333 said:


> Well, it's quite flattering that people already forgot Poland was also a communist country ruled by soviet Russia.


Just correted it for you


----------



## multikulti

*[PL] Poland | road infrastructure • infrastruktura drogowa*



Don Vito KurDeBalanz said:


> Just correted it for you




Just corrected it for you.


----------



## mr.cool

What are the chances that the s2 bypass sections b and c will be completed on time? I've heard the section A has a year delay


----------



## Kemo

If by "on time" you mean the original deadline of August 2020, then the chances are 0%.


----------



## Kemo

Design & build contracts have been signed for almost 50 km of S11 motorway south of Koszalin










Design & build contract has also been signed for 12 km of A2 motorway towards Belarus (first of three sections between Mińsk Mazowiecki and Siedlce).


----------



## Kemo

Some constructions are starting:

*S19:* Nisko-South - Podgórze 11.5km (March 2020 to May 2022) project / OSM

*S61:* Łomża-West - Łomża-South 7.2km (March 2020 to October 2021) project / OSM

*S61:* Ełk-South - Szczuczyn-North 19.6km (March 2020 to July 2021) project / OSM

*S19:* Lasy Janowskie - Zdziary 9.3km (March 2020 to October 2021) project / OSM

*S19:* Podgórze - Kamień 10.5km (March 2020 to December 2021) project / OSM

*S61:* PL/LT border (Budzisko) - Suwałki-North 24.2km (March 2020 to September 2022) project / OSM

*S7:* Warsaw-Lotnisko - Lesznowola 6.6km (March 2020 to November 2022) project / OSM


----------



## Daniel749

Kemo said:


> Some constructions are starting:
> 
> *S7:* Warsaw-Lotnisko - Lesznowola 24.2km (March 2020 to November 2022) project / OSM


correct length is 6.6 km


----------



## Kemo

_Trasa Łagiewnicka_ in Kraków - the "third ringroad"










Construction of road and tram tunnels





Diverting Wilga river to a new channel


----------



## sponge_bob

Kemo said:


> _Trasa Łagiewnicka_ in Kraków - the "third ringroad"


Is this not the S Road bypass (with A road to the south) is it all under construction/built yet or are there Italians involved????


----------



## Kemo

No, the A/S ringorad is the "fourth ringroad". And, unfortunately, there are Italians (Salini) involved in the remaining S7 section of fourth ringroad.


----------



## Chris80678

All quiet on the road openings front so far


----------



## rakcancer

New, temporary "tank" signs on polish roads.
https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/36934/Nietypowe-znaki-przy-naszych-drogach


----------



## Kpc21

It's not new, those signs have been used for years, but they are only installed in case of some military maneuvers and similar actions, which is why there are seen very rarely on the roads.


----------



## Kemo

Contract for finishing of one of the "Italian jobs" has been signed today.

~10 km of S5 motorway between Bydgoszcz and Szubin will be completed by Polish company Kobylarnia/Mirbud. Contracted completion date is December 2021.


----------



## Kpc21

But the costs regarding infrastructural investment should also drop, shouldn't they?

There are already mass layoffs happening in Poland. There will be more employees on the market, the work will be cheaper.


----------



## Kemo

Also, the price of fuel dropped significantly.


----------



## rakcancer

Kpc21 said:


> There will be more employees on the market, the work will be cheaper.


I don't think that would be positive change...


----------



## Kpc21

rakcancer said:


> I don't think that would be positive change...


Of course not for the employees, but the costs of such investments will certainly go down.


----------



## Iluminat

It's not like your typical employee from the tourism & recreation sector would just transition to construction, they're likely not physically prepared or willing to even try this type of job.


----------



## Kpc21

What about e.g. car factory employees? Their work is to a large extent physical.

Obviously not all the people losing their jobs now are appropriate for physical work like at a construction site – but many are.


----------



## rakcancer

_Design and build_ contract for of 12.5 km stretch of A2 towards Siedlce, east of Warsaw has been signed with Polaqua company. This is second out of 3 sections of A2 between Minsk Mazowiecki and Siedlce that are now under design and build contracts. Deadline falls in Autumn 2023.
More info:





Druga umowa na projekt i budowę A2 z Mińska Mazowieckiego do Siedlec podpisana :: Generalna Dyrekcja Dróg Krajowych i Autostrad - Serwis informacyjny


Druga umowa na projekt i budowę A2 z Mińska Mazowieckiego do Siedlec podpisana - brak komunikatu o id: serwis_description




www.gddkia.gov.pl


----------



## Kemo

10 km of new DW935 Rybnik - Żory was opened today




























Map: OpenStreetMap


----------



## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> 10 km of new DW935 Rybnik - Żory was opened today
> 
> I see on from OpenStreetMap that there is potential to extend the DW935 further westwards so it bypasses Rybnik altogether (see yellow line in map below) . Are there any future plans to do this extension?


----------



## Maciek_CK

Kemo said:


>


This photo seems awfully familiar: was this section finished eariler but a decision was made not to open it in order to avoid having it maintained in winter?


----------



## Kemo

Chris80678 said:


> I see on from OpenStreetMap that there is potential to extend the DW935 further westwards so it bypasses Rybnik altogether (see yellow line in map below) . Are there any future plans to do this extension?


Yes, there are plans, but there is no money 

Actually the plans are to extend it all the way to DK45 in Racibórz. Albeit not with such high standard the whole way. Bypass of Racibórz is currently under construction OpenStreetMap



Maciek_CK said:


> This photo seems awfully familiar: was this section finished eariler but a decision was made not to open it in order to avoid having it maintained in winter?


It was finished several months ago, but the inspections and bureaucratic procedures took a lot of time...


----------



## Chris80678

Is the A2 from Konik to Mińsk Mazowiecki still scheduled to open in June 2020 or is it delayed due to covid19?

It won't be a very interesting stretch of motorway as it has no exits between Konik and the existing Choszczówka exit on the A2 Mińsk Mazowiecki bypass and passes through relatively featureless land


----------



## Kemo

You can check the newest photos in the respective thread








[A2] Kałuszyn - Kukuryki (BY)


Ale będzie dobrym spowalniaczem na DK2/92




www.skyscrapercity.com





There seem to be no delays and opening in summer (but not necessarily in June) is very probable.


----------



## Chris80678

Thank you Kemo


----------



## SRC_100

Nice fly over east part of southern bypass (S2) of Warsaw during ongoing construction. The fly starts on the end of existed (western) part of S2. You can see the u-turn at the end of it. After it, on the beginning construction site there is clearly seeing the tunnel entrance.







and part of Regional Road Racibórz-Pszczyna no. DW935 - recently opened stage one of Rybnik bypass


----------



## Kemo

Design & build contract has been signed for one of the missing sections of S7 motorway north of Kraków










So there is only one short section left between Warsaw and Kraków without a signed contract.


----------



## mr.cool

When is that short section likely to be signed? I've noticed it's in blue, so it may be a while? With that latest section signed it doesn't look like there's an exit straight onto the national 7 road?


----------



## Kemo

Tender was planned for 2020, but that was before the pandemic mess, so who knows...
The last exit has a convenient access to DK7 OpenStreetMap


----------



## Kemo

A1 near Piotrków Trybunalski - reconstruction - widening to 2x3


----------



## Kemo

Driving video from 90 km section of of S7 motorway soth of Warsaw






Notice the exceptionally long straight section which begins at 0:32 and lasts for about 17 km.


----------



## Theijs

ChrisZwolle said:


> Via Carpathia, main route:
> 
> Klaipėda - Kaunas - Białystok - Lublin - Rzeszów - Prešov - Miskolc - Debrecen - Oradea - Lugoj - Calafat - Sofia - Thessaloniki / Istanbul


*dream modus* 
This gives hope that somewhere around 2030 the Romanian A6 might become/still will be eligible for EU funding and gets materialised.


----------



## sponge_bob

It would be daft were the Romanian A6 only built because it was added to a SECOND Ten-T core corridor simply to make the Romanians get the finger out. It is already in a Ten-T core corridor but the Romanians won't build it. 

I would route the Via Carpathia from Oradea (RO) to Cluj to Sibiu to Pitesti then Craiova....Calafat. IE along where the Romanians _might_ get the finger out and actually build a road or have built one already, it would be much cheaper for all of us in Europe, and quicker.


----------



## MacOlej

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Via Carpathia concept is much larger than just S19. It runs from Klaipeda to Thessaloniki and has a number of branch routes.
> 
> See the Łańcut Declaration III


In this case thanks for correction! It seems that I was referring more to common naming convention rather than the official document.


----------



## sponge_bob

MacOlej said:


> In this case thanks for correction! It seems that I was referring more to common naming convention rather than the official document.


If it were genuine official EU policy then the name would not be the RetroRoman 'Via Carpathia' but something more like the "Baltic-Aegean Corridor" . .


----------



## Kemo

Demolition of _Reichsautobahn Berlin-Breslau_


----------



## rakcancer

Where? Why? Is this part of A4 widening around Wroclaw?


----------



## sponge_bob

rakcancer said:


> Why?


It is over 80 years old.


----------



## SRC_100

rakcancer said:


> Where? Why? Is this part of A4 widening around Wroclaw?


Southern carriageway of DK18, future A18


----------



## rakcancer

Is it going to be concere again?


----------



## SRC_100

🔼🔼
yes, like a northern carriageway...


----------



## TarRoad

Damn thats a shame to see it go, it's a piece of motorway history.


----------



## SRC_100

🔼 🔼 
I doubt any driver will miss this historic road surface...


----------



## Don Vito KurDeBalanz

^^ x 2

It's a piece of history and let it finaly stay there. You wouldn't like to drive 70 km on the road like that


----------



## Theijs

> Southern carriageway of DK18, future A18


Oh, that road is such a pain. Drove it back in 2005. Happy for all drives to see it being reconstructed! Date of delivery?


----------



## MacOlej

TarRoad said:


> Damn thats a shame to see it go, it's a piece of motorway history.


If you think this road deserves some kind of a monument, this little stretch should be enough:








Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




goo.gl


----------



## Rombi

Does anyone know where is this cool pre-war petrol station on A4?


----------



## MacOlej

Bielany Wrocławskie, there you go:








Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




goo.gl


----------



## Kirt93

Theijs said:


> Oh, that road is such a pain. Drove it back in 2005. Happy for all drives to see it being reconstructed!


Going in 2005, you already had some luck as I believe on significant parts closer to Wrocław you got to drive on the good surface. If you did this drive through the communist period or next 13 years (1990 - 2002/3), there was all or (later) almost all of the length between Wrocław and PL/DE border which used the pre-WWII surface, what had been a lot.



Theijs said:


> Date of delivery?


Mid 2022 for the first section, late 2023 for the last. But really what matters most here for the comfort is when the traffic will be taken off the old carriageway on the last fragment: right now, those driving in Berlin -> Wrocław direction still need to drive for about 55 kilometers on the old surface (the Wrocław -> Berlin direction uses good surface since 2007), so that's still a traumatizing experience at the moment. If everything goes fast and smooth, the last closures could happen by the end of 2020 optimistically.

PS. One other shot. Very satisfying to see  (More photos)









And also many drone photos here preserving the view on the last days of the section's life.


----------



## Wrocl'awianin

Rombi said:


> Does anyone know where is this cool pre-war petrol station on A4?


Of course.




Wrocław Bielany Junction.


----------



## Kemo

There is a second one in Legnica








Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.pl





There is also one on A6








Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.pl


----------



## Kemo

Construction of the missing section of S1 expressway to Slovakia (E75) begins.

Węgierska Górka bypass (a.k.a. Przybędza - Milówka) will be 8.5 km long. There will be two tunnels. The tunnels, together with the section between them, will be built in full 2x2 profile. The rest will be 1x2 with space reservation (the same as the existing sections of S1 south of Żywiec and northernmost section of D3 in Slovakia).
Completion date is August 2023.


----------



## MichiH

Kemo said:


> Construction of the missing section of S1 expressway to Slovakia (E75) begins.


Begins... now?


----------



## Kemo

This month.


----------



## Kemo

Szczuczyn bypass driving video



vuv said:


> Miłego oglądania.


----------



## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> Szczuczyn bypass driving video


Nice bypass. I look forward to seeing more of S61 opening in 2021


----------



## rakcancer

TarRoad said:


> Is there any benefit to concrete roads? Duribility? We have one where near my city and it's makes a hell of a noise when being driven on.
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps it was designed as a defensive safety precaution, I remember that roads built pre-1900 would have had to accommodate for military use and straight roads would've been safer than curvy ones.



There are very opposite opinions about concrete vs asphalt. Both materials has advantages and disadvantages. Concrete technology in these days is not the same as it used to be but I am not going to stand behind one or another technology. One thing for sure, it makes a lot of sense to build half of the new motorways in Poland in concrete otherwise material cost would increase rapidly if only asphalt or only concrete would be used in such a fast developing road network in Poland in last 15 years.


----------



## sponge_bob

You cant use concrete surface in urban areas, too noisy. It is good for heavily traffic rural roads because it lasts a very long time. All high capacity roads are concrete underneath, we are talking about the surface or "wearing course" .


----------



## rakcancer

Kemo said:


> Construction of the missing section of S1 expressway to Slovakia (E75) begins.
> 
> Węgierska Górka bypass (a.k.a. Przybędza - Milówka) will be 8.5 km long. There will be two tunnels. The tunnels, together with the section between them, will be built in full 2x2 profile. The rest will be 1x2 with space reservation (the same as the existing sections of S1 south of Żywiec and northernmost section of D3 in Slovakia).
> Completion date is August 2023.


Interesting they decided to do full 2x2 including 2 tunnels. Though after completion we will have 1X2 between border with Slovakia and Milowka, then 2x2 - Wegierska Gorka bypass, then again 2X1 to Zywiec and then again 2x2 towards Bielsko-Biala. It is good they decided to build 2X2 in new section, how about the rest ? Any near future plans to upgrade remaining 2x1 to 2x2?


----------



## PovilD

kokomo said:


> Wow! That's a lot


Poland is big (in European context), and need for such roads were and still are immense. Luckily, Poland is being successful at building it, unlike similar-sized country Romania.


----------



## Kemo

rakcancer said:


> Interesting they decided to do full 2x2 including 2 tunnels. Though after completion we will have 1X2 between border with Slovakia and Milowka, then 2x2 - Wegierska Gorka bypass, then again 2X1 to Zywiec and then again 2x2 towards Bielsko-Biala. It is good they decided to build 2X2 in new section, how about the rest ?


The tunnels need to have two tubes for emergency reasons, so it makes sense to built both tubes in full profile rather than one "normal" tube and one smaller "emergency" tube for pedestrians only.


----------



## kokomo

In Argentina, third world country, they had started to use more feequently concrete in highways and roads. However it is interchanged with asphalt according to price. When one is cheaper than the other, it is used. So it is not unusual to see roads having asphalt for a while, then concrete and then another more km of asphalt.

However, teamsters (professional driver syndicate) are saying that their tires wear down faster with concrete than asphalt. So from time to time press government not to use it


----------



## PovilD

kokomo said:


> In Argentina, third world country, they had started to use more feequently concrete in highways and roads. However it is interchanged with asphalt according to price. When one is cheaper than the other, it is used. So it is not unusual to see roads having asphalt for a while, then concrete and then another more km of asphalt.
> 
> However, teamsters (professional driver syndicate) are saying that their tires wear down faster with concrete than asphalt. So from time to time press government not to use it


Argentina (along with some other more developed Southern American countries) is more similar to second world countries of today  Though they didn't implemented EU standards as Central Eastern Europe did.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The promise of 'no maintenance for the next 30 years' makes concrete appealing for road authorities. However in reality it doesn't always turn out that way. It's interesting that road authorities with long experience in Europe have opted out of concrete as a driving surface on motorways: Italy doesn't have concrete motorways, France and the Netherlands have phased it out and Germany and Belgium are a mixed bag, both using asphalt and concrete. 

Reasons for not using concrete as a driving surface in the Netherlands:

initially expensive
too noisy, requires too many noise barriers
drainage capabilities are poor (most Dutch motorways have porous asphalt)
impossible to repair to original conditions, it becomes bumpy over time
repairs cause too much congestion, not possible to resurface overnight or during weekends
maintenance is less frequent, but once it is needed, the expenses are huge and difficult to spread out evenly over the years.

What's interesting in North America is the use of concrete as both a bridge deck and driving surface at the same time. I've seen photos of potholes going through the entire deck. You can also see this on satellite images, a freeway with asphalt has concrete at bridges. I don't think this practice is applied in European highway construction. A disadvantage is that there is no incentive to repair poor concrete driving surfaces on bridges because it requires a whole bridge deck replacement. Many still have the original concrete from 50 or 60 years ago while the adjoining sections have much newer surfaces.


----------



## rakcancer

hahaha, I knew ChrisZwolle will stand behind asphalt....


----------



## rakcancer

ChrisZwolle said:


> What's interesting in North America is the use of concrete as both a bridge deck and driving surface at the same time. I've seen photos of potholes going through the entire deck. You can also see this on satellite images, a freeway with asphalt has concrete at bridges. I don't think this practice is applied in European highway construction. A disadvantage is that there is no incentive to repair poor concrete driving surfaces on bridges because it requires a whole bridge deck replacement. Many still have the original concrete from 50 or 60 years ago while the adjoining sections have much newer surfaces.


Generally problem with either concrete or asphalt surfaces in USA is lack of investing in infrastructure and maintenance. At the same time it needs to be taken under consideration that heavy trucks are the main mean of fraight transportation in USA as opposite to very well developed and utilized railway network in Europe.


----------



## sponge_bob

rakcancer said:


> At the same time it needs to be taken under consideration that heavy trucks are the main mean of fraight transportation in USA as opposite to very well developed and utilized railway network in Europe.


America has enormous rail freight networks too. Rail freight is more 'fashionable' in Europe but that is not to mean that companies use it much. The only company I know of building out heavily along rail networks in Europe is Amazon, funnily enough.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The United States has a much larger share of freight transport by rail than Europe. In 2007 it was 36% truck, 49% rail and 15% water, compared to the EU having 75% truck, 18% rail and 7% water at that time. 

There are a couple of reasons for that. The U.S. has a very large privately owned rail network, which serves the interest of freight transport, not passenger transport. Large volumes of bulk products are transported over much longer distances than in Europe (grain, oil, coal), plus intermodal containers from Asia making their way across the Rocky Mountains. Most freight transport in Europe is shorter distance and less of that are bulk products, as those are typically transported from seaports and not long distances over land. 

Apart from the Rhine, the EU also lacks large volume waterways that are navigable for large ships or barges like the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers. Which explains its lower share of freight by water.


----------



## rakcancer

America has huge rail freight but as mentioned it counts towards long and very long distance bulk material transport. So, statistically it looks like US is a rail country but in fact in metropolitan areas where most of the concrete surfaces are there is much higher number of heavy trucks serving local economies.


----------



## kokomo

Chris, if it's cheaper and with lower maintenance costs, I assure you that in many places concrete will be the choice of election. Back again in Argentina, and I know you are an avid fan of motorways, the new highway from Rosario to Cordoba has batches of concrete and asphalt intermixed. Those in asphalt are in worse conditions mainly due to overweight by axle on trucks. It seems concrete (if well built) tolerates better however, when it breaks it creates potholes similar to moon craters!


----------



## Kpc21

ChrisZwolle said:


> repairs cause too much congestion, not possible to resurface overnight or during weekends


But such overnight oversurface actions must be costly too... In Poland they almost don't happen, I heard about such things only in Warsaw.


----------



## MichiH

kokomo said:


> Back again in Argentina, and I know you are an avid fan of motorways, the new highway from Rosario to Cordoba has batches of concrete and asphalt intermixed. Those in asphalt are in worse conditions mainly due to overweight by axle on trucks.


of course, that's what @ChrisZwolle meant when he wrote "_maintenance is less frequent_". Concrete lasts longer! The trucks _destroy_ asphalt quicker and asphalt must be replaced earlier. This can be done with short interruptions. Within a few days or even over night. On the contrary, replacing concrete is a job for months: "_but once it is needed, the expenses are huge and difficult to spread out evenly over the years._"


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kpc21 said:


> But such overnight oversurface actions must be costly too... In Poland they almost don't happen, I heard about such things only in Warsaw.


It's true, but these overnight repairs become profitable if regular day-time or long-duration repairs cause so much congestion that it paralyzes traffic. It's a big motivation in France, Italy and the Netherlands to use asphalt, because availability of capacity became a key factor. I think this could become an issue in the future in Poland as well, if traffic volumes are over 50,000-60,000 vehicles per day you don't want long-term narrow construction zones or even with reduced lanes.


----------



## ufonut

For concrete lovers here is *S17* by *bronco10*










New charging stations to be built on 17 rest areas


----------



## geogregor

Kpc21 said:


> But such overnight oversurface actions must be costly too... In Poland they almost don't happen, I heard about such things only in Warsaw.


Because, despite all the moaning about traffic, Poland still have more spare capacity than the busiest corridors in Italy, Netherlands, France or the UK. With a few exceptions of course. 

Overnight closures might become more common around Warsaw or Silesia in a few years. First we will need more resurfacing on the roads we built in the last decade and second because traffic will be much worse.


----------



## Kemo

sponge_bob said:


> You cant use concrete surface in urban areas, too noisy. It is good for heavily traffic rural roads because it lasts a very long time. All high capacity roads are concrete underneath, we are talking about the surface or "wearing course" .


Well, the eastern half of S2 in Warsaw will have concrete pavement...


----------



## sponge_bob

geogregor said:


> Overnight closures might become more common around Warsaw or Silesia in a few years. First we will need more resurfacing on the roads we built in the last decade and second because traffic will be much worse.


That's the thing, the only barely completed core of the Polish network (a diamond shape from Warsaw to Krakow to Katowice to Lodz to Warsaw) will require pavement rebuilds together with reconfiguration from 2+2 to 3+3 in many cases within 10 years, and that will eat into the budget for new build roads long before the end of the 2020s.

The big bottleneck will inevitably be the A2 and the A4 owing to the lack of east west connections to the rest of Europe compared to north south connections within Poland itself, and you don't want to be caught widening/rebuilding both the A2 and A4 _at the same time_ as that would be utter chaos.

It will cost more per km to 'rebuild' in urban area/urban fringes than to new build in rural areas. So far Poland has a new network that does not require many revisits for widening and pavement replacement.


----------



## kokomo

One additional mention about concrete, and I do not wish to derive this thread onto that direction exclusively, is that in some cities in Argentina the avenues or roads are made of asphalt except bus stops. The rectangular loading spot where buses stop to allow commuters to alight and board has been consistently built in the past decade in concrete. The reason why is that fuel leaks (diesel) in such buses tend to eat quicker asphalt and make potholes easier.
A couple of examples in minor cities in Argentina


----------



## Kpc21

geogregor said:


> Overnight closures might become more common around Warsaw or Silesia in a few years. First we will need more resurfacing on the roads we built in the last decade and second because traffic will be much worse.


Weekend closures are already quite common in Warsaw. But this is the only city I know where it's made this way, e.g. in Lodz it's always at least several days (let's say a week) of closure for a resurface.

OK, I know one case in Lodz where they were closing a 1x2 street for a resurface for just a day or two, but it's the only road that connects an outskirt with the city and detour is quite long.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

kokomo said:


> One additional mention about concrete, and I do not wish to derive this thread onto that direction exclusively, is that in some cities in Argentina the avenues or roads are made of asphalt except bus stops. The rectangular loading spot where buses stop to allow commuters to alight and board has been consistently built in the past decade in concrete. The reason why is that fuel leaks (diesel) in such buses tend to eat quicker asphalt and make potholes easier.


This is somewhat common in Europe as well, even in countries that prefer asphalt. Concrete is more resistent to friction, it is also useful on roundabouts for that reason, but the problem again is the longer construction time of concrete, so not many countries use it on roundabouts.

An example of concrete usage in the Netherlands: a roundabout, bus stop & bike path are all built out of concrete on an otherwise asphalt road.


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## Kpc21

In 1990s and 2000s, those bus stop surfaces were often made in Poland of concrete paving blocks, which however did not work well in cities – see:









Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




goo.gl





Google Maps (this one, well, not that bad, but still worse than the asphalt around)









Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




goo.gl





I am convinced I know worse cases, I just can't find any of them now.

Extreme results of lack of anything but asphalt:









Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




goo.gl





Now they practically always use concrete.


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## Wolfiq

geogregor said:


> Because, despite all the moaning about traffic, Poland still have more spare capacity than the busiest corridors in Italy, Netherlands, France or the UK. With a few exceptions of course.
> 
> Overnight closures might become more common around Warsaw or Silesia in a few years. First we will need more resurfacing on the roads we built in the last decade and second because traffic will be much worse.


The worst offenders are all kind of bridges, viaducts. Resurfacing at worst last weeks. I'm always wondering why simple maintenance of a viaduct can last nearly as long as building such a object from scratch in some cases or even longer and this means months or years of work. Incompetence?


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## PovilD

Kpc21 said:


> In 1990s and 2000s, those bus stop surfaces were often made in Poland of concrete paving blocks, which however did not work well in cities – see:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google Maps
> 
> 
> Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goo.gl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google Maps (this one, well, not that bad, but still worse than the asphalt around)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google Maps
> 
> 
> Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goo.gl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am convinced I know worse cases, I just can't find any of them now.
> 
> Extreme results of lack of anything but asphalt:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google Maps
> 
> 
> Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goo.gl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now they practically always use concrete.


While being in Poland, I noticed that bus stop surfaces are often paved with cobblestone surfaces. This is not the case in my country (or any Baltic countries). We use regular asphalt for bus stops. I don't know why Polish method is different, maybe it reduces possibility of formation of "koleiny" from standing buses? Since I often spot "koleiny" ("provėžos") (sometimes they are quite deep) in my country on bus stops.


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## Kpc21

Exactly this is the reason and this is also the reason why they are currently most often (especially in cities) made of concrete.

In suburban and rural areas, it's still often cobblestone or concrete paving blocks – but there it's enough as they don't have so many so heavy buses but rather more lightweight buses (often minibuses) carrying less passengers with a lower frequency.

You can see "koleiny" (it seems in English they are called ruts – but the photo illustrating the word comes from Poland  ) even with paving blocks or trylinka in these Street View photos.


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## PovilD

Kpc21 said:


> Exactly this is the reason and this is also the reason why they are currently most often (especially in cities) made of concrete.
> 
> In suburban and rural areas, it's still often cobblestone or concrete paving blocks – but there it's enough as they don't have so many so heavy buses but rather more lightweight buses (often minibuses) carrying less passengers with a lower frequency.
> 
> You can see "koleiny" (it seems in English they are called ruts – but the photo illustrating the word comes from Poland  ) even with paving blocks or trylinka in these Street View photos.


I decided to go Google Translate to find if the English word fits, but I wasn't confident with the translation "ruts", so since this is the Polish thread I used "koleiny" instead 

I don't remember the use of the word "ruts" very often in this forum.

I miss somewhat the use of concrete blocks in my country for bus stops. I know they hard to maintain, but bus stops are usually don't consist huge areas, so I think concrete for bus stops are genius idea.


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## Kpc21

PovilD said:


> I don't remember the use of the word "ruts" very often in this forum.


Maybe they aren't so common in countries other than Poland 

Poland has quite rough conditions for road surface, with quite low temperatures in winter (down to –15 degrees Celsius on some days in some winters, rarely down to –20) and quite high in summer (up to 40 degrees on extreme days) and frequent temperatures around 0 Celsius with rain at the same time in winter, late autumn and early spring (water freezes in potholes and makes the asphalt crack). Normally the type of asphalt should be adjusted to local conditions – but over here it's not really possible with such a wide range of temperatures appearing.


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## PovilD

Lithuania have individual sign for it 


















Another unique sign is for black spot: This appeared in early 2000s, maybe even slightly earlier.









We are not very into plate sign below warning signs. In comparison, your'e standard:


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## sponge_bob

Ruts is the correct english word, linear holes left by lorries in the inside lanes of busy (or old) motorways. I remember them being everywhere on a lot of old autobahns in the 1980s. 

You have to rebuild that road completely if it is_ rutted_ because the sub base has collapsed (if there is a sub base even)


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## PovilD

For example, I learned the term "pothole" from this forum (as far as I remember), and I'm confident to use this word there. I think the term "ruts" is not that suggestive as "pothole". Outside the forum these road related terms is not very well heard for non-English speaker, I think. When I said "pothole" during one conversation. I was questioned what does this word mean


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## MichiH

Potholes and ruts are something totally different!


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## mgk920

There is also heavy rutting on highways in states that allow tungsten carbide studs in snow tires, they are seriously damaging to roads, especially concrete ones. These are mainly in the USA's west.

Mike


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## PovilD

MichiH said:


> Potholes and ruts are something totally different!


Ruts only make your life a bit more uncomfortable, while potholes can damage your vehicle quite efficiently. Except maybe extremely deep ruts which might do damage as well.


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## sponge_bob

mgk920 said:


> There is also heavy rutting on highways in states that allow tungsten carbide studs in snow tires, they are seriously damaging to roads, especially concrete ones. These are mainly in the USA's west.


Seemingly where studded tyres are common ( in the Rockies in the west) porous asphalt wears out within 5 years , hard non porous asphalt within 10 and concrete in 20 years. Sweden and the nordic countries have this problem too, I think most of Europe is too far south for studded tyres though, we can get away with all weather rubber ones. Legislation differs widely. Poland prohibits them. 






Winter Regulations







www.continental-tires.com


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## kokomo

Axle overweight is a major issue in roads in Argentina since weight controls are almost non existent. This a provincial road in the countryside where cattle and milk trucks pass. Hence, ruts is a major issue










Also, some signs warning about potholes on the way. Small towns lack sufficient money for maintenance, recall this is a third world country, so they place warning signs instead such as this one


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## Kpc21

kokomo said:


> Small towns lack sufficient money for maintenance, recall this is a third world country


In Poland it's on the contrary, small towns not really having big problems with that, large cities lack sufficient money for maintenance.

An issue is also that all national and provincial roads are managed and maintained by the state/the province – except the sections through large cities (but not small towns), which are managed only by those cities – with an exception for expressways and motorways. Therefore, large cities have more roads to maintain.

The budgets of large cities are more tight because they have more spendings per a single citizen (e.g. they have more roads, more infrastructure, more old residential buildings in bad technical state either owned by the city or managed by it because the true owner is unknown, they must maintain the public transport, they also maintain high schools to which not only children from the city attend). And apart from that, they pay a special "Robin Hood" tax (we call it Janosikowe, for a legendary character Janosik from Tatra mountains) that is supposed to help smaller municipalities.


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## kokomo

Very interesting.


In Argentina, you get a small town of 30,000 inhabitants to name an example, and give thanks if that township can pay their fire department, water services and small clinic. People tend to have low incomes so public maintenance is set to a minimum.

Big cities are the ones who have huge budgets and can afford to build and repair highways or put fountains with water and plants in parks.

Nice contrast


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## Kpc21

In Poland, fire departments are either voluntary, or state-owned, I don't think they are ever municipal. Although, if I am not mistaken, municipalities often subsidize those voluntary ones. Water services are paid in bills by the customers (based on meter read-outs), I don't think the municipalities add anything extra from their budgets to that – although maybe I am wrong. Meanwhile, such a situation happens with the public transport – but again, small municipalities (maybe not 30-thousand, but like of about 10-thousand) often don't have any internal public transport. Public healthcare clinics are also paid by the state, and even though the public healthcare is generally underfinanced, there are even private clinics that are in the public healthcare system and they manage to make money (although they usually also provide commercial services). Although it indeed happens that municipal hospitals go in debts, mainly because of the too low financing from the state.

It also depends on the town/city. E.g. in Łódź the roads are maintained very poorly, but I recently was in Cracow and there, I really didn't see any issues.


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## masages21

kokomo said:


> Very interesting.
> 
> 
> In Argentina, you get a small town of 30,000 inhabitants to name an example, and give thanks if that township can pay their fire department, water services and small clinic. People tend to have low incomes so public maintenance is set to a minimum.
> 
> Big cities are the ones who have huge budgets and can afford to build and repair highways or put fountains with water and plants in parks.
> 
> Nice contrast


I saw you quoting Argentina a couple of times, out of curiosity, is there money for anything now? The country is heading for a 9th sovereign debt default in its history and it looks like an utter disaster from an economic point of view...


----------



## kokomo

Nope, Central Bank net reserves are around USD 8Bn, and the economy in the past 10 years has only showed growth in 2 years. The country is experiencing stagflation persistently (2019 showed GDP -3% and inflation 58%) and the new populist government is trying to undo all measures of the previous right wing administration (such as liberalization of the air market or digitization of public procedures). Hence, no money for public expenditures and as of now 60 day of quarantine with people losing their jobs. Nice forecast


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## Maciek_CK

The last remaining intersection – Skarżysko-Kamienna North – was opened today on the city’s bypass, which is a part of S7 Warsaw – Kielce. The deadline for the whole contract was May 2020, but the road was drivable and in operation since December 2019. This also makes it official: it took longer to finish S7 Chęciny (Kielce) – Jędrzejów than Skarżysko-Kamienna bypass: the latter was launched in October 2017, whereas the former in October 2015 and was supposed to end by… October 2017. It is now May 2020 and the main road is in full profile, but many additional works (service roads, rest areas, final pavements) are still to be done.









photo source: GDDKiA Kielce's Twitter


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## Eulanthe

Kpc21 said:


> Although, if I am not mistaken, municipalities often subsidize those voluntary ones. Water services are paid in bills by the customers (based on meter read-outs), I don't think the municipalities add anything extra from their budgets to that – although maybe I am wrong.


Yes, fire services here are normally subsidised in some way by the local municipality. Where I live, the money raised from renting the village hall also goes directly to the fire station, which is part of the same building. 

Water is run by a municipal company, which in turn buys the water directly from the larger city which actually produces the drinking water from the river. At least where I am, the water company is partially subsidising the muncipality's budget.


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## sponge_bob

One of the last Italian Jobs in Poland, the S7 just north of Krakow, is still in the design phase, what is happening with this contract...anyone????


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## Maciek_CK

The contract was signed in September 2018 and the due date is April 2022. It’s a design & build contract and a part of it is obtaining a work permit which allows a proper groundbreaking. From this moment we see such a contract as under construction and it changes color to red on the map. The application was submitted in March 2020 and it can take a couple of months to obtain it (time varies). In this case it was expected this month, but now it is believed by the authorities it’ll be issued at the end of June / beginning of July, but it’s unlikely because the environmental impact study has to be done again. Only after that it’ll be possible to issue the work permit.


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## ChrisZwolle

Maciek_CK said:


> It’s a design & build contract and a part of it is obtaining a work permit which allows a proper groundbreaking.


How does this work exactly in Poland? It is a _Zezwoleniu na Realizację Inwestycji Drogowej_, or ZRID. Can people or landowners appeal to it? Or is it an approval process in which the government authorizes construction plans submitted by the contractor?

It doesn't sound like an environmental / planning approval. That would be a DŚU, right?


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## Jakub Warszauer

ChrisZwolle said:


> How does this work exactly in Poland? It is a _Zezwoleniu na Realizację Inwestycji Drogowej_, or ZRID. Can people or landowners appeal to it? Or is it an approval process in which the government authorizes construction plans submitted by the contractor?
> 
> It doesn't sound like an environmental / planning approval. That would be a DŚU, right?


DŚU, _Decyzja o Środowiskowych Uwarunkowaniach_ literally means Environmental Condisions Decision, but acually it is an environmental permit to carry out the investment which sets the conditions on how you can impact the environment. It includes also environmental impact mitigation measures. DŚU is based on ROŚ (Raport o oddzialywaniu na środowisko), which is the environmental impact asessment.

Normallny after that the investor (say, the rail authority) has to obtain in particular:

decision about the location of the investment: basically it identifies the land plots from land register which will be used for the investment,
construction pertmit: acceptance of the engineering design of the object

ZRID combines the two above in one administrative process to speed things up a little bit in the road sector investment. And it allows you to ignore spatial plans.

After ZRID is published the land ownership is practically transferred to the road authority but firstly the investor has to pay compensation based on fair value of the plot. The value is set by independent valuator paid by the goverment. Even if one does not accept the valuation he has to surrender the land and the compensation is kept in deposit. If you accept first valuation you get a bonus (5% I think, but not sure at the moment).


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## Maciek_CK

A decision on environmental conditions (DŚU) tells you how to carry out the investment so as to minimize the deterioration of the environment. It is issued after the office has carried out an environmental impact assessment of the project and is necessary if the investment qualifies for projects that may have a significant impact on the environment.

A work permit (as I called it, it’s a bit tricky to translate, but we’re talking about ZnRID – zezwolenie na realizację inwestycji drogowej) was introduced in 2003 in a special law (specustawa), a bill targeting specifically road investments, easing administrative proceedings (one permit instead of several). The permit includes for example requirements for connecting the road with other public roads, conditions resulting from the needs of environmental protection, protection of monuments and contemporary cultural goods as well as the needs of national defense but most importantly designation of real estate or parts thereof that will become the property of the state or the competent local government unit.

At this point (on the verge of actual construction) it feels like more like an approval process, but the administrative proceedings consists of two instances, you can appeal to a higher authority. Should you exhaust the administrative path, you can file a complaint to a administrative court (a note: its role is to ascertain that official acts are consistent with the law, not to settle factual disputes). Once the work permit (being an administrative decision) is final (meaning it hasn’t been appealed or the higher authority has upheld it), the designated real estate or parts thereof become the property of the state or the competent local government unit. The decision also specifies the date when the property should be relinquished - it may not be less than 120 days from the date on which the permit became final. However, in exceptional situations justified by social or economic interest, when the decision has been given the order of immediate enforceability, the expropriated property should be left immediately.

In connection with the permit, the issuing authority is obliged to issue a decision determining the amount of compensation due within 30 days from the date on which the permit became final. The amount of compensation paid to all those entitled to a given property may not exceed its value.


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## MacOlej

PovilD said:


> Ruts only make your life a bit more uncomfortable, while potholes can damage your vehicle quite efficiently. Except maybe extremely deep ruts which might do damage as well.


Ruts are not only uncomfortable. They can also be quite dangerous causing drivers to lose control while driving in/over them. And this danger rises even more when there is rainwater in the ruts.
And of course they can be dangerous for pedestrians crossing them as they can lose their balance or trip and fall down.


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## Kemo

An atypical roundabout at the A1 x DK46 junction



Peyer said:


>


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## kokomo

It is weird indeed, but not quite unusual


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## Stuu

kokomo said:


> It is weird indeed, but not quite unusual


Surely the weirdness is the railway?


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## kokomo

Perhaps...


----------



## rakcancer

Jakub Warszauer said:


> In the mean time I would recommend to conduct a strategic corridor analysis between Lubartów and Białystok to determine the corridor for S19. Such an analysis has never been done and therefore we are missing Siedlce which is nonsense.


Well, I actually think that this would be most appropriate corridor. S19 would cross A2 almost exactly in the middle between Siedlce and Biała Podlaska - two biggest cities in the region. That crossing would be almost perpendicular as A2 to S19 are. There will be no problem getting either from Siedlce or Biała Podlaska to either Lublin or Bialystok via A2 and S19.


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## Kirt93

@ufonut S19 Lublin – Rzeszów was an example which is objectively untrue. Yes, I'd believe that being objectively true is a necessary precondition for an example to be "the right example". But yeah, you can be sure that it's not like we're only correcting the pro-current-govt false statements because we don't like the govt. Here's some corrections to the anti-current-govt false statement: 



rakcancer said:


> S6 is actually most talked about tip of iceberg of undone projects. There are also untouched S10 and S11 - almost nothing really happened there too.


This is false. In case of the vast majority of sections of S10 and S11, next to nothing was done during the previous govt's term. The pre-design works (SK, STEŚ) for them were started in 2017 and 2018, and consequently continue since then. What can be said against the current govt is that why wouldn't those pre-design contract get signed in '16 & '17 instead of '17 & '18? And it's totally a valid accusation – not only for those roads, the govt largely wasted the year 2016 in terms of pre-design processes (e.g. the waits in resolving tenders for STEŚ). Nonetheless, in case of S10 and S11 their overall processes are the exact opposite of what you had said in your post.

This issue is particularly problematic for their more busy / important sections like S11 Oborniki – Poznań or S10 Toruń – Bydgoszcz where it would be really needed if the predesign work were started in say 2012 or 2013 and they maybe we'd be opening them around right now, but alas... (Of course, for some other sections there's nothing wrong in them not getting started earlier: they just shouldn't have been a priority, and they weren't).



rakcancer said:


> More and more tenders are now prepared for small towns bypasses on the cost of national S/A network construction that lost its speed definitely.


You're just repeating the slogans. The "100 bypasses" thing is mostly early preparations and just a small number of them has actual tenders prepared because in most cases they're simply not ready. Certainly there's no reason to assume these few tenders-in-preparation were causing some noticeable slowdowns of the A/S plan.

It's never possible to fully attribute one section to one or another govt: someone does predesign, someone does tenders, someone signs contracts – all of them are responsible for the success. But for example looking at the "replacement rate" of how many contracts are ongoing, we can see that:

1155 km of A/S contracts have been finished since the 2015 election;
At the same time, new contracts were signed (excluding contracts for completion of broken contracts) amounting to 1244.8 km of new A/S sections.
So it's a 108% "replacement rate" de-jure, but if we increased the 1155 figure by some Italian (and not only) contracts which should've been finished by now and are not, it seems we're quite precisely around the 100% "replacement rate".

For the 2020 & 2021 I also don't see, so far, much reasons to assume that the "replacement rate" won't be met, more or less. We shall see, of course.



rakcancer said:


> If you look at official site of GDDKiA there is over 1200 km of roads under construction or in advanced design stage but just ONLY: 234 km in tenders. That has been a case for long time.


This is not some extremely bad number when you consider that D&B contracts last about 3.5 years, while tenders recently last 6 – 12 months in most cases. So of course at a given moment there should be way fewer in-tender sections than in-D&B sections. Assuming that S6 OMT and restarting S6 Słupsk – Bożepole are now "official" plans for 2020, it means the overall plan is 406 km of A/S tenders for the 2020. If they get this plan in 80%, this seems good enough to keep the overall number of constructions on a stable level.


----------



## rakcancer

Kirt93 said:


> This is false. In case of the vast majority of sections of S10 and S11, next to nothing was done during the previous govt's term.


Nope, this is not false. Previous government was still working on finishing S5, S8,S7, S3 A1 to mention just few. Although It couldn't be done everything at the same time. S10, S11 and finishing S6 would be next on the list. Current government didn't continue it, just simply shifted all attention to the east: S61, S19, A2 and on the rest of network only finishing what was already started by previous government.
Of course, as I wrote here before: there is nothing wrong with S61, or extending A2 towards Siedlce , some S19 especially between Rzeszow and Lublin are also needed (though also started by previous government) but they (current government) clearly abandoned other important pieces, not whole S10 and S11 but at least these stretches that make sense most and are most needed: S10 between Bydgoszcz and Torun, S11 around Poznan in both, north and south directions. On the top of that there is never ending planning of S17 - Warsaw bypass, very sluggish progress with S1 between Katowice and Bielsko-Biala.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What is the deal with S17 around the east side of Warsaw?


----------



## rakcancer

Kirt93 said:


> @ufonut Assuming that S6 OMT and restarting S6 Słupsk – Bożepole are now "official" plans for 2020, it means the overall plan is 406 km of A/S tenders for the 2020. If they get this plan in 80%, this seems good enough to keep the overall number of constructions on a stable level.


I can't understand people here especially on this forum believe in that pre election nonsense.
S6 will never be constructed by this government. It is all pre election propaganda or "kielbasa wyborcza".


----------



## Kirt93

@rakcancer You are plain wrong. Predesign works for almost all sections of S10 and S11 were started in 2017 and 2018. On all sections of S10 and S11 the works are ongoing. The previous govt didn't start the predesign works for the sections of S10 and S11 which should've had the priority and for which it would've been beneficial if they were to be opened about now (2020) rather than about 2025, like S11 Oborniki – Poznań and S10 Bydgoszcz – Toruń.

Calling roads with such a history to be "undone projects" by the current govt is blatantly wrong.

One govt doesn't "do" them on most sections, including the crucial highest-important ones like


rakcancer said:


> these stretches that make sense most and are most needed: S10 between Bydgoszcz and Torun, S11 around Poznan


– those are exactly those stretches where the inactions of the previous got make it impossible for them to be opened around now, despite their openings around now being badly needed. Another govt "does" them on 100% of their planned length, however it wastes 1 year out of 5 years in the meantime. Yes, that's exactly what you'd call "undone" 

S17 WOW is a much different story. I was addressing your statements about S10 and S11.



rakcancer said:


> S6 will never be constructed by this government. It is all pre election propaganda or "kielbasa wyborcza".


If they are not, they are part of the "20%" figure from the sentence which you quoted. In my opinion, OMT will be constructed by this govt. We shall see.


----------



## rakcancer

ChrisZwolle said:


> What is the deal with S17 around the east side of Warsaw?


S17 - Warsaw bypass has one major problem: unwillingness of government to make a decision. There are few variants of one of the section that is very controversial among citizens of Wesola - used to be town, currently part of city of Warsaw. Basically there are two opposite groups lobbing for two different variants. I don't know what is exact situation right now but I heard that they try to undo environmental decision and undermine whole project.


----------



## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> What is the deal with S17 around the east side of Warsaw?


Extreme NIMBYism.

And the most recent problem is that it goes through military area and the army did not let the designers to survey it. So GDDKiA terminated the contract with the designers.

"xD" is the most appropriate comment...


----------



## rakcancer

Kirt93 said:


> @rakcancer You are plain wrong. Predesign works for almost all sections of S10 and S11 were started in 2017 and 2018. On all sections of S10 and S11 the works are ongoing. The previous govt didn't start the predesign works for the sections of S10 and S11 which should've had the priority and for which it would've been beneficial if they were to be opened about now (2020) rather than about 2025, like S11 Oborniki – Poznań and S10 Bydgoszcz – Toruń.
> 
> Calling roads with such a history to be "undone projects" by the current govt is blatantly wrong.


I didn't say previous government started working on these sections of S10 and S11, I said it would continue and till now we would probably have at least environmental decisions issued. In the meantime current government didn't issue such a decision in last 4 years. I don't count any pre - environmental decision works, all it can be in very different stages, and can be undone and forgotten for different reasons very quickly.
The only section with environmental decision issued very recently is S10 between Torun and Bydgoszcz. But, to be honest it is one of the worst I have seen in Poland, it is almost like it is asking to be cancelled by "bad environmental groups". It cuts straight through the forest. That could be avoided at least in some parts but it for some reason didn't happen. I assume, for that reason it won't be constructed any soon. Of course nobody will blame government, they did their work just these environmental guys ruined it...


----------



## Kirt93

rakcancer said:


> I don't count any pre - environmental decision works, all it can be in very different stages, and can be undone and forgotten for different reasons very quickly.


And that's exactly the problem with your reasoning. The crucial problems with S10 and S11 are as follows: 1) The previous govt didn't start the predesign for Toruń – Bydgoszcz when it should've, 2) The previous govt didn't start the predesign for Oborniki – Poznań when it should've. That's the core issue. There are problems with new govt like the problematic DŚU which you talk about, but even if the new govt was perfect and even if S10 and S11 were its top priorities, those sections would still be delayed because of how badly previous govt neglected them at the stage of the pre - environmental decision works.

If you say "I don't count any pre - environmental decision works" when you talk about sections where neglection of pre - environmental decision works is their defining problem then well... you can prove absolutely everything this way.

If you want to find a good example of a section neglected by the current government, take a look at S19 Lubartów – Lublin. A short but crucial fragment with one of highest AADT in Poland (from single-carriageway roads), 3 years of it wasted completely by the previous government and you would think that when a govt claiming "Via Carpathia is our priority" wins the election they would finally push it further ASAP? Nope, 2 more years wasted until they resumed the works.


----------



## sponge_bob

Kirt93 said:


> For the 2020 & 2021 I also don't see, so far, much reasons to assume that the "replacement rate" won't be met, more or less. We shall see, of course.


and elsewhere


Kirt93 said:


> About half of this sum is meant to accommodate for the increasing costs of constructions. The other half is supposed to fund the projects which they had planned [or had claimed so?] as PPP:


How much more, per km, are the next lot of schemes, the 'replacements' supposed to cost and how long is this 'boost' in funding to last. ????


----------



## Theijs

ChrisZwolle said:


> What is the deal with S17 around the east side of Warsaw?


Can someone from the Polish members answer this question ?


----------



## Kirt93

@sponge_bob This recent change in the funding is supposed to span till 2025. After 2025 the planned funding levels are not known (the details of the EU's next financial perspective are not known either).

In theory, the funding increase is attributed to particular sections rather than the whole program, so there's no general answer to the question "how much more a km will cost": you can see here the list of how much more particular projects are supposed to cost. I would treat the numbers with a large grain of salt, the funds are obviously going to be moved between projects depending on how high the offers turn out to be in the tenders. (Especially the figures for S5 and S8 – those roads won't be completed till 2025, so "their" funding changes seem to look more like placeholders i.e. at least part of their funds would be moved to other sections before the end of the program I believe.)

The original plan for 2020 tenders was supposed (before increase) to cost 12,2 billion PLN for 353 km (mostly A/S, short fragments of DK bypasses too).


----------



## rakcancer

Theijs said:


> Can someone from the Polish members answer this question ?


You have 2 answers. Read above.


----------



## sponge_bob

Kirt93 said:


> @sponge_bob This recent change in the funding is supposed to span till 2025.


OK so the extra funding is around €500m a year for 5 years on top of what was originally projected ....would that sound about right???

And if the average year sees ~250km of new starts on S/A roads then that is another €2m a km in projected costs because existing contract terms will not change, the extra costs can only be for new contracts.


----------



## Kirt93

sponge_bob said:


> ~250km


It's more like 300 km per year on average. Here's the number of yearly openings (A/S only, no DK fragments) since the road construction speeds rose, with the 4-year moving average:

(Until 2007, yearly openings were at best a bit over 100 km of A/S sections. Overall, 1083 km of A/S had been constructed up to 2007).

​Opened​4-year M.A.​Notes​2008​210​–​​2009​147​–​​2010​135​–​​2011​313​*201*​​2012​639​*309*​​2013​298​*346*​​2014​279​*382*​​2015​34​*313*​​2016​123​*184*​​2017​295​*183*​​2018​318​*193*​​2019​410​*287*​​2020​147​*293*​based on deadlines (plus, 8 km already opened)​2021​534​*352*​based on deadlines​2022​211​*326*​based on deadlines​

The average openings' length from the last decade is 284 km per year.

For 2023, there is so far 221 km of signed contracts. So, supposing they want to get to those say 300 km openings, they need to sign 80 km more (out of ongoing tenders) such that their dates would fall into 2023. Which seems doable I think.



sponge_bob said:


> around €500m a year for 5 years


Sorry, I might've been unclear. The funding relates to planned expenses in a given year, i.e. constructions ongoing during this year. So if you really want a guess for this number, it's maybe more like 600 km (300 km * 2 years), but overall I would be really against summing up those numbers and treating it as a per-km increase. First, this seemingly "placeholdery" nature of S5 cost increase makes it really hard to guess which projects exactly will receive this additional 9.8 bln PLN in the end. Second, some of those numbers (like for DK75) are most likely partially the price increase but partially the change in the scope of the project. All in all, if you want to see how the pandemic affected the prices, let's just patiently wait for several more tenders to be resolved (such where offers were given after the pandemic hit) and compare those to earlier estimations, rather than trying to make statistics out of this 21 bln PLN fund increase.


----------



## Kirt93

Kirt93 said:


> If you want to find a good example of a section neglected by the current government, take a look at S19 Lubartów – Lublin. A short but crucial fragment with one of highest AADT in Poland (from single-carriageway roads), 3 years of it wasted completely by the previous government and you would think that when a govt claiming "Via Carpathia is our priority" wins the election they would finally push it further ASAP? Nope, 2 more years wasted until they resumed the works.


Speaking of which.

The tender was started for S19 Lubartów – Lublin (23 km):
https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:293833-2020:TEXT:pL:HTML&src=0











TOP 10 most busy sections of national roads with one lane per direction – according to the 2015 census: (except for the sections of DK roads inside cities with powiat rights, which don't take part in the general AADT measurement)

DK92 west of Warsaw, AADT 35.8k
DK5 south of Poznań, 30.3k (in 2019, S5 was opened on this section)
DK4 east of Rzeszów, 28.0k (in 2016, A4 was opened on this section)
DK91 between Łódź and Zgierz, 27.6k (in 2016, Łódź eastern bypass (A1) was opened; Łódź western bypass (S14) is under construction)
DK44 in Oświęcim, 26.5k (the tender for a dual carriageway bypass of Oświęcim is ongoing)
DK5 north of Bydgoszcz, 25.4k (S5 Bydgoszcz bypass is under construction).
*DK19 north of Lublin, 24.7k <-------- fragment of the Lubartów – Lublin section*
DK11 in Kołobrzeg, 24.5k (in 2019, S11 Szczecin – Kołobrzeg – Koszalin was opened; it remains to be seen in the next measurement how this change affects the traffic flows inside the city)
DK20 in Żukowo, 24.2k
DK87 south of Nowy Sącz, 23.4k (in 2015, western bypass of Nowy Sącz was constructed by a local authority, which is likely to have taken some of the traffic out of DK87; another short fragment of the bypass further north is planned by GDDKiA)
Now waiting for Żukowo! (which would be included in the tender for Tricity 2nd bypass)


----------



## Daniel749

The last tender for the modernization of the fourth section of A18 will start in few days: The tender documentation for the 21-kilometer section of the future A18 was sent to the Official Journal of the European Union. In addition to the modernization of the south carriageway, the junctions Luboszów and Golnice will also be modernized.






Coraz bliżej autostrady - ogłaszamy przetarg na ostatni odcinek przyszłej A18 :: Generalna Dyrekcja Dróg Krajowych i Autostrad - Serwis informacyjny


Coraz bliżej autostrady - ogłaszamy przetarg na ostatni odcinek przyszłej A18 - brak komunikatu o id: serwis_description




www.gddkia.gov.pl


----------



## Kemo

Construction permit for the extension of _Zakopianka_ to Nowy Targ has been issued. Although not officially a motorway, the road will be almost undistinguishable from motorways.

*DK47:* Rdzawka – Nowy Targ-South 15.2km (June 2020 to November 2023) project / OSM /


----------



## sponge_bob

This is the_ somewhat_ unusual cross section of the tunnel which will be bored next year at the northern end of the S3 under the Swina . The machine will be in place fairly soon.










There would be as many as 5 or 6 of these escape passages along the length of the tunnel. However as this is a 1+1 tunnel it is still possible to use it for extra large (high) loads if you close the tunnel to traffic in one direction.


----------



## Eulanthe

Kemo said:


> Construction permit for the extension of _Zakopianka_ to Nowy Targ has been issued. Although not officially a motorway, the road will be almost undistinguishable from motorways


Why aren't they simply building it as an S-class road? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever to sign it as DK, unless the terrain is such that they prefer to keep traffic at 100-120km/h rather than 120-140km/h. 



sponge_bob said:


> This is the_ somewhat_ unusual cross section of the tunnel which will be bored next year at the northern end of the S3 under the Swina .


It's the same system as they implemented in the Mont Blanc tunnel. It's a very effective way of doing things, as it utilises the unused space under the roadway. The old system of having fireproof rooms simply didn't work, but this system provides for a means of escape that should hold up for several hours while allowing people to get out. 

From memory, the Mont Blanc Tunnel also has special vehicles that can travel along the under-road passage in order to rescue people.


----------



## fazotron

Del


----------



## Blackraven

Holy smokes.
So much road construction in Poland? :O

Is Poland now the road-building capital of Europe? :O


----------



## yoggy52

Yes.


----------



## Kemo

It has been like this for about 12 years already.


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## Kirt93

Blackraven said:


> So much road construction in Poland? :O
> 
> Is Poland now the road-building capital of Europe? :O


Quite so  

Also quite so  (though it already misses the first wave of constructions, related to Euro 2012 in Poland&Ukraine)


----------



## geogregor

Polish road authority Twitted decent map:









Black: ready sections,
Red: under construction,
Green: tender procedure

Other colours further stages of preparations, meaning more vague timelines...


----------



## PovilD

Lithuanians said they are jealous that S61 is already on realization, while our A5 still have to pass some procedures to start the construction 

I'm only jealous that Polish managed to refurbish Budzisko and Ogrodniki border crossing points, while Lithuanians haven't done anything on other side 

I hope construction on Lithuanian side will start soon. Maybe as soon as 2021  This would mean that at least S61/A5 Lithuanian border crossing will be refurbished too, although I don't know about DK16/135 border crossing. I didn't heard any plans.

P.S. I'm also waiting for realization of S16 too. It would serve for us as great Warsaw bypass for German direction + better transportation connection from Lithuania to the Polish seaside.


----------



## Kemo

After heavy rains, a viaduct on a major highway in Katowice has been damaged and closed for traffic.









OpenStreetMap


OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.




www.openstreetmap.org





Traffic jams and congestions guaranteed.
But it's not a big deal, the road is under reconstruction and the viaducts would be demolished anyway this year.



John Deere said:


> WIĘCEJ


----------



## PovilD

What is interesting that after S61 and A1 is completed, you will be able to drive from Lithuania to Czech Republic solely by controlled access highways.

Maybe Prague would still be detour, but Brno is on direct road. If Brno-Vienna is completed, then it could be possible to drive to Vienna on motorways without exiting it or making slight detours. Bratislava seems to be quite a detour, Google Maps avoids Bratislava, when driving to Vienna.

I'm now thinking it would be good idea to mark Vienna on A1, Bratislava on S1, and Budapest on S7 

Since E371 ends in Prešov, S19 would mark Prešov. Maybe Košice would make more sense, but Slovak road network is not built that way that it could be easy to mark it as control city.


----------



## Wrocl'awianin

PovilD said:


> What is interesting that after S61 and A1 is completed, you will be able to drive from Lithuania to Czech Republic solely by controlled access highways.
> 
> Maybe Prague would still be detour, but Brno is on direct road. If Brno-Vienna is completed, then it could be possible to drive to Vienna on motorways without exiting it or making slight detours. Bratislava seems to be quite a detour, Google Maps avoids Bratislava, when driving to Vienna.
> 
> I'm now thinking it would be good idea to mark Vienna on A1, Bratislava on S1, and Budapest on S7
> 
> Since E371 ends in Prešov, S19 would mark Prešov. Maybe Košice would make more sense, but Slovak road network is not built that way that it could be easy to mark it as control city.


Hard to disagree. Last year I went from Wrocław to Vilnius 888 km, via A8, S8, A1, A2, S8, DK8, A5 and A1. The whole journey was pretty quick and seamless, plenty of unforgettable landscapes and amazing weather. Tbh I can't wait for the completion of S61 and upgrade of A5, it will be even faster to get there.


----------



## kokomo

So good to see that motherland is embarked on such a modernization program! 💪


----------



## PovilD

kokomo said:


> So good to see that motherland is embarked on such a modernization program! 💪


It seems only Belarus wouldn't be connected with motorway/expressway network in coming years, though I don't know about Slovakia with its S1/D3 connection.

Even Ukraine now has connection, but we could also hope that proper connection with L'viv will appear, and not some sub standard dual carriageway built in standards that are not used for low density areas in rural Russia, but a proper motorway similar to what we see in Poland.

I'm somewhat glad that Lithuania plan a motorway built in similar to Danish standards with smooth slip roads of diamond junctions while it wasn't a case with A5 section between Marijampolė and Kaunas-proper. The only potential concern with A5 between Marijampolė and Polish border is directional signage. I wonder if they improve it somehow, or it will stay a bit substandard (maybe not with important junctions, but with minor ones).


----------



## Kirt93

PovilD said:


> though I don't know about Slovakia with its S1/D3 connection


S1 should be completed around late 2023. Looks like D3 will still have some gaps afterwards.



PovilD said:


> you will be able to drive from Lithuania to Czech Republic solely by controlled access highways.
> 
> Maybe Prague would still be detour, but Brno is on direct road. If Brno-Vienna is completed, then it could be possible to drive to Vienna on motorways without exiting it or making slight detours. Bratislava seems to be quite a detour, Google Maps avoids Bratislava, when driving to Vienna.



Yeah, the coming years will "close" quite several routes. At the moment the only completed border-to-border route is A4, so there's basically two possibilities of how one can drive through Poland – excluding routes with major detours – solely by controlled access highways:
_Dresden – Lviv, Ostrava/Brno – Lviv._

4 years from now the four main border-to-border highways (A1, A2+S8+S61, S3, A4) should be completed, and quite several others (S1, S5, S8, A18) allowing to form more combinations of routes out of those main ones. At least understood literally as "border-to-border": in some cases the highways on the other side of the border might get completed later. It looks like in 4 years it should be possible to drive through the Polish territory on controlled access highways only (without large detours) in these combinations:
_Berlin – Kaunas, Berlin – Lviv, Berlin – Ostrava, Berlin/Dresden – Świnoujście (sea border), Berlin – Gdańsk (sea border), Dresden – Kaunas, Dresden – Lviv, Prague/Brno – Świnoujście, Ostrava/Brno – Kaunas, Ostrava/Brno – Lviv, Ostrava – Świnoujście, Ostrava/Brno – Gdańsk, Zilina/Bratislava – Kaunas, Zilina/Bratislava – Gdańsk, Lviv – Świnoujście._
So yeah, should be quite many combinations available


----------



## rakcancer

Eulanthe said:


> Why aren't they simply building it as an S-class road? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever to sign it as DK, unless the terrain is such that they prefer to keep traffic at 100-120km/h rather than 120-140km/h


That is similar case to S2 around Warsaw and comes from times when motorways were very controversial in Poland though there were very few at that time. Originally, S2 supposed to be A2 and DK to Zakopane supposed to be S class..... BUT people simply didn't want "Motorway" or in case of Zakopianka "Expressway" so government "listened" and now is building just "regular" road which de facto is expressway. Polish reality.


----------



## geogregor

rakcancer said:


> That is similar case to S2 around Warsaw and comes from times when motorways were very controversial in Poland though there were very few at that time. Originally, S2 supposed to be A2 and DK to Zakopane supposed to be S class..... BUT people simply didn't want "Motorway" or in case of Zakopianka "Expressway" so government "listened" and now is building just "regular" road which de facto is expressway. *Polish reality.*


It is not unique to Poland, the same tactic is often used in Ireland or the UK.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It’s fairly common across Europe. Though Poland is an exception in that many of its most important corridors are expressways instead of motorways. In most other countries expressways are often of lower importance in context to the national network.


----------



## PovilD

ChrisZwolle said:


> It’s fairly common across Europe. Though Poland is an exception in that many of its most important corridors are expressways instead of motorways. In most other countries expressways are often of lower importance in context to the national network.


They seem to make sense on broader European scale, like marking most important European corridors (E30, E40, etc.) as motorways while secondary roads in European context are marked as expressways.

It's still an unusual practise. It's strange when A6, A8 are motorways. Actually, it doesn't make sense to me. It makes more sense why S2 is an expressway, probably for making all Warsaw ringroad sections having equal importance. A6 is looking like strange continuation of German Autobahn network (Autobahn sign => Autostrada sign), while A8 (Wroclaw Bypass) is looking almost like complete non sense in this network standard. Sure, it would make sense if all S roads would become A roads.

I'm thinking if Poland could invent mega-motorway standard. Then, expressways could be upgraded to motorways, and current motorways to mega-motorways, maybe allowing unlimited speed on them, or at least maximum 150 km/h, while on new motorways (former expressways) - speed 130 km/h. Maybe both sections would have the same motorway sign, except mega-motorways would have additional signs for 150 km/h (or even unlimited speed) on electronic boards. There are sections on, for example, A1 and A2 where you could quite safely do 200 km/h. I would also want to mention that toll boths should also be removed for smooth traffic, some e-vignette "for all" should be implemented.

I learned that Slovakia decided to abolish expressway signs, making all expressways to become motorways. I wonder if this could become an example for Poland too.


----------



## rakcancer

All these ideas above to rename S roads to A are for sure doable and make lots of sense but there has to be a political will and money to do that. Example of mentioned road to Zakopane de facto expressway is proving that things are going sometimes in opposite direction.
Slovakia is much smaller country with much smaller motorway network.


----------



## MichiH

rakcancer said:


> Slovakia is much smaller country with much smaller motorway network.


And much smaller budget.


----------



## rakcancer

That is for sure but considering much smaller network of expressways already built, it was way easier and cheaper to transform it to motorways.


----------



## MichiH

rakcancer said:


> That is for sure but considering much smaller network of expressways already built, it was way easier and cheaper to transform it to motorways.


But the relation is similar, let's say costs / inhabitant or costs / state budget or whatever


----------



## PovilD

rakcancer said:


> That is for sure but considering much smaller network of expressways already built, it was way easier and cheaper to transform it to motorways.


Vast majority of Polish expressways easily qualify for a motorway despite sharp turns at some places.


----------



## yoggy52

MichiH said:


> But the relation is similar, let's say costs / inhabitant or costs / state budget or whatever


I would say terrain is way worse.



rakcancer said:


> That is for sure but considering much smaller network of expressways already built, it was way easier and cheaper to transform it to motorways.


Altought in Slovakia we have saying: "Highway in every valley". A lot of expressways are planned, but I am not sure if they will be ever build. 

But if we would be good with money and manage to complete it then our highway+expressway density (to population size) would be higher than in the Netherlands.
NL: 5200km and 17.5mio
SK: 1700km and 5.5miio
(just random interesting fact)


----------



## sponge_bob

Slovakia has brutal terrain so the price per km is 3-4x what it would be in most of Poland. Hungary <> Poland is a much fairer comparison as they are equally flat in the main.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Netherlands has around 2450 kilometers of motorways. Our expressways are of lower standards than those in Slovakia or Poland. I don’t know where the 5200 km figure is based on, I’ve seen that floating around frequently.


----------



## sponge_bob

ChrisZwolle said:


> I don’t know where the 5200 km figure is based on, I’ve seen that floating around frequently.


CIA factbook and sites that scrape stats off it, usually.


----------



## Sponsor

PovilD said:


> It's still an unusual practise. It's strange when A6, A8 are motorways. Actually, it doesn't make sense to me. It makes more sense why S2 is an expressway, probably for making all Warsaw ringroad sections having equal importance. A6 is looking like strange continuation of German Autobahn network (Autobahn sign => Autostrada sign), while A8 (Wroclaw Bypass) is looking almost like complete non sense in this network standard. Sure, it would make sense if all S roads would become A roads.


Yes, it doesn't make much sense. It's due to succsession of real A8 motorway that was planned before. Back in the 90. there were plans of countinuous motorway from Warsaw to Czech Republic through Łódź and Wrocław. At some point they had cut it to stretch between Wrocław and Łódź and then only a bypass of Wrocław was to be built whilst the rest would become S8 instead of A8. As you mentioned it's exactly the opposite situation than A2 which turns into lower class when passing urban area of Warsaw. It makes more sense since road parameters tend to lower in such situation.

Similar strange situation is with the A6 near PL/DE border. It is of lower standard than motorway and even S3 expressway nearby but it's always been like that so they keep it signed as motorway.



PovilD said:


> I'm thinking if Poland could invent mega-motorway standard. Then, expressways could be upgraded to motorways, and current motorways to mega-motorways


That would be pointless cause nothing would have changed afterall. Still there'd be two categories with two separate signs. The same confusion as today.

In my opinion each road which:

is grade-separated,
has design speed Vp=80 or higher,
has hard shoulder of at least 2 m,
is at least few kilometers long as main way,
fullfills DK category,
should be a motorway







That would fit to current S- and A-roads + some sections like future DK47 Rabka - Nowy Targ or DK75 north of Nowy Sącz. The speed limit would be set as 120 or 130 kph, but with many local limits eg. on mentioned DK47 and DK75 (many VMS should be implemented).

The other grade-separated roads complement the whole network with minor stretches most likely around urban areas, as small bypasses or connections between motorways and cities. That would be eg. Aleje Ujazdowskie in Warsaw, DTŚ in Silesia (though some would consider it as motorway), Trasa Sucharskiego in Gdańsk or Inowrocław bypass. These would be signed as







- this signed should mean nothing more than motor vehicles only and be equal to this sign
View attachment 259161





PovilD said:


> I learned that Slovakia decided to abolish expressway signs, making all expressways to become motorways. I wonder if this could become an example for Poland too.


Slovakia and Czechia might be good examples to observe if it works good. I'm only afraid that our authorities and rulling power are both quite know-how resistant.
Anyway, there is one issue that distinguish slovakian D/R-roads from polish A/S-roads. Due to hilly terrain in Slovakia their high standard roads tend to blend into each other. Some D-roads can actually have lower standards than R-roads depending on location. As far as I know _diaľnice _have design speed of 80, 100 or 120 while _rýchlostné cesty_ have the same range of design speeds. The only thing that is always different seems to be lane width (3,75 on D and 3,50 on R). Other parameters are very flexible. As a result we have *D3 Vp=80 *and at the same time we have *R7 Vp=120 *but generally most of them (both D and R) seems to have Vp=100.

In Poland the difference is more clear since majority of A-roads have Vp=120 and majority of S-roads have Vp=100. Poland is relatively flat hence it was easier to implement two different classes.


----------



## rakcancer

Sponsor said:


> Back in the 90. there were plans of continuous motorway from Warsaw to Czech Republic through Łódź and Wrocław. At some point they had cut it to stretch between Wrocław and Łódź and then only a bypass of Wrocław was to be built whilst the rest would become S8 instead of A8.


To be more historically accurate: originally planned A8 went from Wroclaw to Warsaw via Belchatow and Piotrków Trybunalski. It was later revised and redirected towards Łódź .
BTW, there should be built some day extension of S8 from Łódź to Tomaszów Mazowiecki the way S8 as a whole route between Wroclaw and Warsaw makes sense.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

sponge_bob said:


> CIA factbook and sites that scrape stats off it, usually.


Even Statistics Netherlands quoted that figure. I'm guessing they counted all carriageways as motorway mileage or something. Centerline (route) mileage is 2474 kilometers.


----------



## Kpc21

Sponsor said:


> fullfills DK category,


The requirement for an expressway (or motorway) to be a national road is a little bit stupid – this way, for example, the DTŚ road in the Upper Silesia metropolitan area, which has the parameters of an expressway, cannot be signed as such and a 100 km/h speed limit applies there. The owner of the road should not matter for its class.


----------



## PovilD

I'm thinking if expressway and motorway classification is useful in Lithuania. Both expressways and motorways are part of A-road category roads, and speed limit differences are only 120 km/h vs. 130 km/h, although I saw specifications that motorways could receive 140 km/h, but pavements in many parts of the network are too deteriorated for that speed.

I'm thinking about motorway speed being default 120 km/h, good quality sections could receive 130 km/h or 140 km/h through variable speed limit signs. There are plans that all sections of our Lithuanian motorways will receive variable electronic signage.

Ok, I think there are sense for Polish current motorway/expressway classification in a way that junctions are usually further apart in motorways, while expressway junctions could be very close together, accompanied by sharper turns. For me, very interesting case is S8 between Radzymin and Wyszków + Wyszków Bypass. Sharp turns on the incline on Wyszków Bypass are followed by dense exits/entrances between Wyszków and Radzymin. I'm even doubting if this section could be a good motorway. On the other hand, there are quite a many substandard Autobahns in urban parts of Germany, so it may not be a problem just for sake of proper road network. We are refurbishing Kaunas-Vilnius highway here in Lithuania, and many substandard features (mostly, right ins/right outs, and few bus stops) will be left out, especially near Kaunas and Vilnius-proper. The most prominent being a one bridge near Kaunas which is very narrow and speed limit is only 80 km/h (it might be 90 km/h after motorway status will be granted). If we will manage to refurbish sections of Kaunas Bypass (A1 and A5) we could also create a proper motorway network in our country similar to what we have with German Autobahn network. I would adore that to be honest, despite bearable substandard features here and there, as long as they have good acceleration/exit lanes, no left turns, bus stops, and pedestrian overpass/underpass where necessary. This network would be connected via Polish expressway/motorway network. It would be cool for S61 having motorway status (with the rest of S-roads, of course). It would be like motorway continuation of Lithuanian A5.


----------



## Kemo

A2 east of Warsaw. Opening soon.



greg-si said:


> 9. Jeszcze kawałek i Węzeł Halinów
> View attachment 270855
> 
> View attachment 270856
> 
> View attachment 270858
> 
> View attachment 270860
> 
> 10. Zaraz za wiaduktem kolejowym kończy się oznakowanie poziome które będzie prowadziło do łącznic z przyszłą DK92
> View attachment 270862





greg-si said:


> 22. Dalej w kierunku łącznicy na Sulejówek
> View attachment 270928
> 
> 
> 25. Wjazd na wiadukt kolejowy, od tego momentu praktycznie pełne oznakowanie poziome
> View attachment 270933
> 
> View attachment 270934
> 
> View attachment 270935
> 
> 26. Zjazd na MOP
> View attachment 270937
> 
> View attachment 270938
> 
> 27. Za chwilę koniec A2
> View attachment 270939


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A wildlife crossing on steroids. 5 or 6 tubes? This is somewhere on S5 north of Bydgoszcz.


----------



## sponge_bob

ChrisZwolle said:


> north of Bydgoszcz.


It is here, you can turn sat imagery off to see the complex road layout.

Unusually, the sliproads for a junction located 'underneath' the camera are included. It would make more sense from the opposite angle. 

https://apps.sentinel-hub.com/senti...19-12-01|2020-06-26&atmFilter=&showDates=true


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Apparently it didn't open: Przełożone otwarcie odcinka S17. Powodem opady deszczu [POSŁUCHAJ] - Warszawa i Mazowsze - najnowsze wiadomości w RDC


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Construction of S52 on the north side of Kraków has commenced:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281551354213937153


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The contract has been signed for the first extension of S19 south of Rzeszów.

It has a 70 month deadline, that seems unusually long, even for a design-build contract. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1281571042583023616


----------



## Daniel749

^^ 
_The section from the Rzeszów Południe (Kielanówka) junction to Babica will be implemented in the "Design and Build" system, which means that the contractor will develop technical documentation based on the Program Concept. The investment is planned for 2020-2026, of which 14 months are design phase, 7 months to obtain a ZRID decision, 33 months to build. To this should also be added four winter periods, i.e. 16 months.

The task is located in Rzeszów and Strzyżów poviats, in the communes of Boguchwała, Czudec, Niebylec and Strzyżów. As part of the planned section, engineering structures are planned, including a tunnel with a length of about 2 km, six viaducts along S19, two viaducts over S19, a collision-free passage along DK19, three animal crossings and one passage under S19. As part of the contract, a two-level "trumpet" Babica interchange will be built, as well as the first Tunnel Management Center in Podkarpacie. As part of the task, two pairs of MOP (MOP II Lutoryż, MOP I Lutoryż) and two landing pads for helicopters of the Air Ambulance Service (at MOP II Lutoryż and at the Tunnel Management Center) will be built.

The construction of tunnels and flyovers will be the biggest engineering challenge. This is due to the hilly terrain, which forces the execution of high flyovers and a tunnel located about 80 m below the surface._






Podpisaliśmy umowę na realizację kolejnego odcinka trasy Via Carpatia na Podkarpaciu :: Generalna Dyrekcja Dróg Krajowych i Autostrad - Serwis informacyjny


Podpisaliśmy umowę na realizację kolejnego odcinka trasy Via Carpatia na Podkarpaciu - brak komunikatu o id: serwis_description




www.gddkia.gov.pl


----------



## rakcancer

ChrisZwolle said:


> It has a 70 month deadline, that seems unusually long, even for a design-build contract.


Elections are just in 2 days.... Everything is possible now.


----------



## Jacek2000

The S52 - Norhern Bypass of Kraków rendering has been uploaded:





The rendering includes just the eastern stretch, which is under construction at the moment (ZRID permission has been issued).


----------



## geogregor

SRC_100 said:


> In fact, Poland in its terrain and landscape is *very diverse*, even within one region. Suddenly, unexpected changes in landscape and terrain occur.


Come on, that is a massive overstatement. Sure, not all Poland is flat as a pancake, especially not in our region. But equally it is not particularly diverse. Mostly gently undulating lowlands with patches of forest and fields. No canyons, no Alpine landscapes (apart from tiny Tartras) no rocks.

Just look at aerial photos of S19 construction between Lublin and Rzeszow. For a driver there won't be any significant feature for well over 100 km of route. Crossing of river San might be considered "exciting" in that situation 

A lot of Polish roads are like that. Efficient means of moving from A to B but with very little to look at on the way. The only exceptions will really be some routes south of A4, especially S3 south of Bolkow and S7.


----------



## sponge_bob

Think of the advantages, a proper mountain S Road could cost up to €40m a km where a lowland S Road costs €6-8m a km. You could not afford to build a proper network then. 

Look at the poor Slovaks for example even though they spend roughly_ as much per PERSON per annum_ on their high capacity network as Poland does. Only Hungary and Poland are blessed with flatness and it shows in the length of their high capacity networks compared to the neighbours with tougher terrain,


----------



## SRC_100

geogregor said:


> Come on, that is a massive overstatement. Sure, not all Poland is flat as a pancake, especially not in our region. But equally it is not particularly diverse. Mostly gently undulating lowlands with patches of forest and fields. No canyons, no Alpine landscapes (apart from tiny Tartras) no rocks. (...)


You completly don`t undestand what I wrote. I can not agree with you. Suggest to read once again. I wrote nothing on canyons, alpine landscapes etc. One example of no existing S19 is funny, but explain nothing at all. I drive quite a lot across PL, especially last time, last 10-12 months and see quite different landscapes. E.g. take a tour on S3 north of A4 to Szczecin or some DW b/n Poznań and Kołobrzeg. Even on S/DK6 landscape changes quite oferten, especially closer to 3city.

The statement the PL i s flat like pancake is just not true. The same Hungary where I`ve spent enough time driving to be sure the things are not so simple them look like. Both PL and HU is mix of flat and hilly landscape with some mountains (mostly PL).
Ok, probably there is little bit more flat places than hillies or mountainous but not just flat .
Finally, I have never said that PL is a mountainous country like Slovakia



sponge_bob said:


> Think of the advantages, a proper mountain S Road could cost up to €40m a km where a lowland S Road costs €6-8m a km. You could not afford to build a proper network then.


More like 10-14mio EUR per km. There are some sections that costs cca. 40-50 mio EUR per km on a _pancake _lowlands. It results e.g.the need for soil replacement and/or deep piling due to the lack of bearing capacity of the soil. No to mention the sections across mountain on south of PL.



sponge_bob said:


> Look at the poor Slovaks for example even though they spend roughly_ as much per PERSON per annum_ on their high capacity network as Poland does.


What I know, the Slovak`s problems results from many factors, the cost of motorways construction is one of several and not the most important. And I don`t think that SK spends on new roads the same money per capita as PL does.


----------



## geogregor

> You completly don`t undestand what I wrote. I can not agree with you. Suggest to read once again. I wrote nothing on canyons, alpine landscapes etc. One example of no existing S19 is funny, but explain nothing at all. I drive quite a lot across PL, especially last time, last 10-12 months and see quite different landscapes.


Well, I'm not sure you understood what I wrote.

The whole debate started from my half-joke that Poland is not the most exciting country for a road trip, especially judging purely from a roadside views perspective. It really isn't. Nobody advertise and gets excited about road trips to admire landscapes along the roads of Mazowsze or Wielkopolska, the way it happens for mountain roads in Italy, Spain, France, Scotland, Switzerland or Norway. I thought it was fairly obvious.

I didn't say that drive in Poland couldn't be pleasurable. Of course it can. But there is good reason why Chris drives and films roads in Spain but not in Poland.

Oh, and I specifically agreed with you that Poland is not flat like a pancake (or Chris's Netherlands for that matter), it is more of an omelette 




> E.g. take a tour on S3 north of A4 to Szczecin or some DW b/n Poznań and Kołobrzeg. Even on S/DK6 landscape changes quite oferten, especially closer to 3city.


Could you post some photos of this amazingly "diverse" landscapes along the S3? From what I saw (admittedly on videos and GSV) there is nothing particularly interesting along the route, just lots of forest and one giant Jesus 

I guess, that might warrant visit from Chris 

Now, road geeks like you or me might find any piece of road interesting. Bit it doesn't make the landscape diverse just because there is a hill from time to time.

Let's take I-55 in Mississippi. I found it really interesting, but it doesn't change the fact that for most people it is a damn boring road, they would rather drive PCH in California. Yet I really enjoyed it, its long empty stretches going through nothing much of interest. One can clear mind during such drives. And I'm sure it will be possible to do something similar along stretches of S19, S3 or S61 in Poland.

It is just not something what "ticks" 99% of tourist drivers.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

geogregor said:


> I guess, that might warrant visit from Chris


I've driven some of S3 south of Szczecin. The area actually has some surprising hills here and there (also on the German side), but it's not really spectacular. Even A31 in France has more scenery.


----------



## PovilD

Poland is quite flat on places where I've been going (A1, DK8, A2, DK19, etc.), I really don't notice something that I would call true hill on those roads, or something that is worth my interest more than the infrastructure itself  My country (Lithuania), although has very low highest point (293 m a. s. l.), but has very noticeable deep river valleys (50 m at places) on Nemunas/Nieman basin rivers. When I came back to Kaunas from Poland, I saw first "true" hills since I left Carpathian foothills in Poland. Vilnius landscape is also pretty much resembling foothills of some mountain range with elevation differences sometimes more than 100 m in few kilometre distance.


----------



## SRC_100

geogregor said:


> Could you post some photos of this amazingly "diverse" landscapes along the S3?


No photos, only GSV but this is my one of the best place on S3, going downhill towards south --> Mapy Google
Unfortunately GSV view doesn`t show real/pur beauty of this part of S3. 

Even on S5 b/n Wrocław and Poznań is one interesting section, but mostly is quite boring route --> Mapy Google & Mapy Google

S7 b/n Szydłowiec and Jędrzejów is quite hilly and has a nice views at many places. I expect that S61 is gonna be quite interesting.

I suggest to take a following trip one time with some hot hatch (e.g. Focus ST or RS) --> Poznańska do Białogard 
One of my favorite route in PL

Btw, sourthern part of hungarian M6 has 4 pairs of tunnels!


----------



## geogregor

SRC_100 said:


> No photos, only GSV but this is my one of the best place on S3, going downhill towards south --> Mapy Google
> Unfortunately GSV view doesn`t show real/pur beauty of this part of S3.


I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder so I'm not going to drag this debate.  

Let's just say I might have higher threshold to get excited about the landscape. Which of course doesn't change the fact that from the infrastructure point of view the S3 is a very good road and I'm sure I would enjoy it as much as I did the I-55 which I mentioned in earlier post 

I'll stick to my view that most people wouldn't really call it spectacular or get excited about it.



> Even on S5 b/n Wrocław and Poznań is one interesting section, but mostly is quite boring route --> Mapy Google & Mapy Google


Wzgorza Trzebnickie, been there once or twice when I studied in Wroclaw, long time ago, using the old DK5. The only real piece of hill between Sleza Mountain and Poznan. Still, nothing particularly spectacular to be honest.



> I suggest to take a following trip one time with some hot hatch (e.g. Focus ST or RS) --> Poznańska do Białogard
> One of my favorite route in PL


Might try one day, this is part of Poland which I know the least. 

I'm really waiting for them to finally finish more sections of the S7. This will finally be a properly fun S-road to drive. And then S3 to the Czech border.


----------



## SRC_100

🔼🔼
My intention was not to compare the Polish views/landscapes to the American or Alpine views/landscapes, but to prove that it is not true that Poland is as flat as a pancake. Just that and nothing else.
By the way, as a person who likes to drive cars, I can enjoy not only the views, but also when the roads are winding, something is happening on them when it comes to their geometry. That is why the S3 road within the borders of Dolnośląskie and Lubuskie provinces is pleasant for me to drive. The S5 between Wrocław and Poznań is much less interesting in this respect.


----------



## PovilD

No, not as flat as The Netherlands, or Florida, or... Kansas  It's a country which is flat or, may I say, wavy flat in most parts. Some parts are really hilly or even mountainous, but these are rare in Polish standard. Kaszubia, Kielce, and Mazury are most notable examples.

Yes, there are Carphatian and Sudetes Mountain range too near the Southern borders, but these are not part of "flat Poland"


----------



## Kirt93

The issue is not only in that most of Poland has uneventful landscapes, but also that even where there are more diverse landscapes, the most interesting parts are usually small in area. When we talk about Alpine highways, one of the things about them is that the Alps cover such large terrain that it was inevitable that multiple highways needed to be constructed through them. Here we have the Tatras which from a hiker or a climber's perspective are only this little bit less spectacular than the Alps, but they are also so small area-wise that the closest highway (S7) will not need to even go near them, let alone through them.

Now, if we had the Tatras spanning to, say, the Slovak/Czech border, then it looks like constructing a S49 + R66 could be a plausible choice of a connection from Poland to Slovakia due to the lack of better options to the west of it – and this would be a fairly spectacular highway. But in reality a much more convenient option exists as an S7 ("S"7?) to the Slovak border in Chyżne because the terrain is much easier along this line. And this "easier terrain" also means "much less spectacular terrain".

Or with


Kemo said:


> Southern regions of Poland are a bit more interesting in that matter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google Maps
> 
> 
> Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.pl


yeah, Jura Krakowsko-Częstochowska indeed has quite nice and surprising little bits like this. And if it spanned such a large terrain that the most plausible way to cross it would be by constructing a highway from Kraków to Łódź through Skała and Ogrodzieniec, we could probably hope for some rocky formations to end up near the highway at a place or two. But it doesn't, so there will just be highways around Jura but not a highway through it.

Karkonosze certainly would offer fairly nice scenery if the most convenient route for an S3 was along the existing DK3 at their footsteps. But as they cover such a small area it is easy to avoid them altogether – and S3 can go along the route of DK5 instead which is still a rather nice hilly scenery, but nothing spectacular. So overall even our mountainous fragments of S3, S1, S/"S"7, "S"47, "S"75 and S19, at some sections they will be spectacular enough in terms of road infrastructure involved, but the scenery will be more like "it's a fairly nice area" rather than "wow, it's such a amazing landscape", because those areas which could provide some more spectacular views are so small that the highways can easily avoid getting too close to them.


----------



## geogregor

Kirt93 said:


> So overall even our mountainous fragments of S3, S1, S/"S"7, "S"47, "S"75 and S19, at some sections they will be spectacular enough in terms of road infrastructure involved, but the scenery will be more like "it's a fairly nice area" rather than "wow, it's such a amazing landscape", because those areas which could provide some more spectacular views are so small that the highways can easily avoid getting too close to them.


Still, these roads will be "spectacular" in comparison with most of the S-roads north of the A4.


----------



## Kirt93

^^ That's for sure  Which makes me think, what is actually the single most scenic fragment of an A/S road north of A4 (inclusive)? I feel like my vote would go either to the technically-speaking-not-yet-finished Salini's section of S7 with a view up onto the ruins of Chęciny Castle, or the Wzgórza Trzebnickie on S5. A rather terrible choice of options overall I guess... If we're also talking the plans then this would probably be S16 I guess unless it gets buried in the acoustic screens.


----------



## sponge_bob

Kirt93 said:


> If we're also talking the plans then this would probably be S16 I guess unless it gets buried in the acoustic screens.


Now there is another qiuestion for everybody. Where are Polands "most artistic" noise barriers. ????


----------



## Kirt93

sponge_bob said:


> Now there is another qiuestion for everybody. Where are Polands "most artistic" noise barriers. ????


Here, obviously


----------



## MacOlej

Kirt93 said:


> what is actually the single most scenic fragment of an A/S road north of A4 (inclusive)?


I hope that S61 from Suwałki to LT border will be a very pleasant drive.


----------



## jwojcie

F... me what happend here? I guess we we have truly magnificent A/S network since we are complaining about boring scenery now 😈 Lets paint mountains on the noise barriers...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

GDDKiA appears to have been compensating the somewhat uninteresting scenery by constructing bridges in all kinds of colors.


----------



## sponge_bob

jwojcie said:


> Lets paint mountains on the noise barriers...


Fcuking genius that.


----------



## Nowax

[S7] Szczepanowice - Widoma section (green)


----------



## Nowax

Source : Zdjęcia lotnicze wrzesień 2020


----------



## Chris80678

Video of Vistula Bridge on S2:


----------



## Chris80678

Recent photos showing construction of the S2 Warsaw Southern Bypass between Puławska interchange and Ursynów East interchange.

All photos taken from the Polish forum and posted by fe91

The current terminus of the S2 at Puławska interchange:










Ursynów West interchange.

Once opened this interchange will serve the Warsaw suburb of Ursynów:










Photo posted by bronco10:










The western portals of the Ursynów tunnels:










Ursynów East interchange (photo posted by bronco10):










Ventilation shafts at the eastern end of Ursynów tunnels (photo posted by bronco10):


----------



## Chris80678

Recent photos of carriageway surfacing works on Vistula Bridge on S2. Photos taken from the Polish forum and posted by Lutra:


----------



## Chris80678

@SRC_100 well if nobody cares about it why are members liking the photos?

I'm not rising to your abuse and harassment

If you not interested in development of S2 don't look at the photos and stop speaking for other forum members


----------



## PovilD

As for me, I mostly search for final products here  I tend to scroll down those construction photos, unless it's probably S61  ...and maybe S16 in the future.


----------



## Chris80678

I appreciate that. Every forum user may only be interested in specific road projects which is fine. If you not interested in S2 just move into page relating to project you are most interested in @SRC_100. Personally right now I am most interested in S2


----------



## sponge_bob

One side point perhaps, a lot of forumers do not have good broadband and downloading a lot of photos can be difficult (or even expensive).

If 2 good photos will do the same job as 5 photos then choose 2.....for them.....and a link to the others on flickr or on a website;.


----------



## Chris80678

sponge_bob said:


> One side point perhaps, a lot of forumers do not have good broadband and downloading a lot of photos can be difficult (or even expensive).
> 
> If 2 good photos will do the same job as 5 photos then choose 2.....for them.....and a link to the others on flickr or on a website;.


Point noted. I'm very sorry for all this


----------



## mr.cool

SRC_100 said:


> @Chris80678, could you please stop posting this polish shit of warsaw bypass?
> Nobody cares on it!


Polish shit? It's one of the most important bypasses currently taking places in Poland right now. Do you know what page you're visiting too?

I for one care about the progress of this construction update. 

Keep posting Chris80678.

P.s - Nobody cares _*about *_it. (for future use)


----------



## Chris80678

It is possibly the most important bypass under construction in Poland at the moment

Frankly @SRC_100 being half Polish myself and a lover of the country which is in my blood (Poland) I'm offended by your comment and referring to it as 'Polish shit'.

I'm proud of Poland keeping up this and other projects amid a global pandemic and financial uncertainty


----------



## Chris80678

Yes. It is off-topic

For anyone who is interested in S2 here is where you will find the latest photos and developments:









[S2/79] Południowa Obwodnica Warszawy


Gotowy od kilku miesięcy wiadukt przy ul. Patriotów nad południową obwodnicą Warszawy wreszcie zostanie otwarty. Ruch wróci tutaj po blisko trzech latach. Ale przedłużające się formalności mogą zniweczyć plan oddania trasy przed końcem 2020 r. (...) Bardziej wstrzemięźliwie [o otwarciu węzła z...




www.skyscrapercity.com


----------



## 3tmk

Alright it's all water under the bridge (or the highway bypass) for now after the previous misunderstanding.
Please remain courteous in the community if you wish to express any valid criticism 

Indeed, some of these picture-heavy threads can be troublesome to load for people with slower internet around the world. Feel free to contribute and share all of your great pictures, our only suggestion would be to use the spoiler tags after the first couple of pictures, that would let people expand and collapse a post containing a lot of pictures.


----------



## Chris80678

Wkoss has just posted some lovely photos of section C of S2 Warsaw Southern Bypass if anyone is interested. If not, sincere apologies


----------



## baczek333

Chris80678 said:


> Frankly @SRC_100 being half Polish myself and a lover of the country which is in my blood (Poland) I'm offended by your comment and referring to it as 'Polish shit'.


Why do you keep talking to him? He's an obvious troll here and posts stuff like that from time to time. Just report him.


----------



## Chris80678

baczek333 said:


> Why do you keep talking to him? He's an obvious troll here and posts stuff like that from time to time. Just report him.


I have ceased talking with him and reported him as well

Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated 🙏 

I'm grateful for everyone's kind and helpful comments


----------



## SRC_100

baczek333 said:


> Why do you keep talking to him? He's an obvious troll here and posts stuff like that from time to time. Just report him.





Chris80678 said:


> I have ceased talking with him and reported him as well


You, boys, call me troll just because I expressed my opinion you don`t agree... it is just pathetic... 
I won't comment on it anymore, it's a waste of time, but you should consider your authoritarian thinking...


----------



## geogregor

baczek333 said:


> Why do you keep talking to him? He's an obvious troll here and posts stuff like that from time to time. Just report him.


I don't think SRC_100 is a troll.

Bu I do agree that he overreacted in a bit silly way. He could suggest to Chris80678 not to overload thread with too many repetitive photos in a more polite manner, possibly in private message.

There is balance to be struck in general country threads like this one. If we start coping all the content from all the road threads on Polish forum it will be very difficult to follow anything as it is one of the most active threads on SSC.



4d4m5k1 said:


> Never heard anyone say "I don't care on it" until today


Neither have I. It is definitely neither correct nor common phrase.


----------



## MichiH

geogregor said:


> There is balance to be struck in general country threads like this one. If we start coping all the content from all the road threads on Polish forum it will be very difficult to follow anything as it is one of the most active threads on SSC.


Agree.

I think that *one or two teaser pics and a link* the other pics is enough when there are frequently new pics about a project.
When a new road is opened or when there are rarely pics about a projects, more pics are welcomed.


----------



## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think S10, S11, S12 & S74 will be developed later than S7 south of Kraków?)


They all are ahead in terms of documentation.
Even S10 east of Toruń has the "corridor study" ready.


----------



## SRC_100

sponge_bob said:


> So this S7 scheme (and the S5 bit mentioned in the last few weeks) are the last bits of the entire ~8200-8300km planned network to enter the formal planning process?????





ChrisZwolle said:


> I think S10, S11, S12 & S74 will be developed later than S7 south of Kraków?)


There are some rumors on S46 (Kielce S7-Częstochowa-Opole-Nysa-Kłodzko S8) and S25 (Bydgoszcz/Toruń-Inowrocław-Konin-A2-Kalisz-Ostrów Wielkopolski S11) and even western part of S12 (S3-Głogów-Leszno-Gostyń-Jarocin S11-Kalisz-Sieradz S8), but for now they are just rumors, nothing serious.


----------



## Kirt93

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think S10, S11, S12 & S74 will be developed later than S7 south of Kraków?)


S10, S11, S12 and S74 have preparation works/analysis already in progress (at various stages) on all sections. S7 Kraków - Myslenice is the last one to join them, out of the current ~8200 km A/S plan, indeed. 

Obviously, it's not always that a road which enters the preparation phases later will be also constructed later - but in this case it should be true. From the current A/S plan, S7 Kraków - Myslenice might only possibly compete with A/S50 for being constructed last, I guess. And it'll probably "win" with A/S50 too  Roads which are not in the official plans (but might appear in it in the future) is a different topic, of couse.


----------



## rakcancer

S46 - that would be interesting. I was always hoping for connection Opole - Czestochowa - Kielce. Beside Czestochowa and Kielce also Radom and Lublin (via S17/S12) would have better connection with Wroclaw.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A1 Piotrków Trybunalski*

The A1/S8 interchange at Piotrków Trybunalski:




















The nearby A1/DK74 interchange:


----------



## Tonik1

^^Concrete porn...











__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1319980937917116416


----------



## PovilD

I probably have said this before, but when I see these photos, my thoughts are A1 along with S61 would complete direct motorway/expressway connection between Lithuania (where I currently live) and Czech Republic. Kaunas-Ostrava link 

I'm especially satisfied with S8/A1 and DK74/A1 junction construction works. I remember taking DK74 to Czechia (through central Wroclaw) like 10 years ago, no proper motorways back then. DK74 was DK8 and it was main connection between Warsaw and Wroclaw.

Also I took renovated 2x2 part of S8 few times in recent years, and it was interesting experience to have proper expressway instead of regular 2x2 with traffic lights as it was still around 2010. Lots of noise barriers, but I didn't experienced any claustrophobic experiences though. I think those noise barriers tend to create some sense of modernity for Post-Soviet country resident.


----------



## rakcancer

PovilD said:


> I think those noise barriers tend to create some sense of modernity for Post-Soviet country resident.


They create mostly headaches and depression.


----------



## steve5

A1 on the border of the Łódzkie and Śląskie voivodeships, 21.10.2020:





A1 Tuszyn - Piotrków Trybunalski, 21.10.2020:





DW 973 bridge over Vistula river between Nowy Korczyn and Borusowa, October 2020:


----------



## Piotr1234

One of my favorite picture. 
S3 near Szczecin
















[S3] Świnoujście - Szczecin (Rzęśnica - z węzłem)


S3 - BUDOWA ODC. MIĘKOWO-OSTROMICE (BUDIMEX). CD. WD-16 (Widzieńsko >>>). cdn...




www.skyscrapercity.com


----------



## Chris80678

Far too soon to be signing Praha (CZ)


----------



## Luki_SL

^^Signing Praha is much better than Jakuszyce


----------



## Chris80678

Signing Praha when it is 558km away from that point though seems excessive to me. 

Signing it from say Legnica is acceptable perhaps. That's just
my opinion though.

Nevertheless, removal of border villages from some signs is good to see.


----------



## tunnel owl

Chris80678 said:


> Signing Praha when it is 558km away from that point though seems excessive to me.


Referring to the picture, I do not agree. It´s the point where you have to choose between two important international roads, one to Berlin and one to Praha. That is probably the reason why they signed both.


----------



## Chris80678

tunnel owl said:


> Referring to the picture, I do not agree. It´s the point where you have to choose between two important international roads, one to Berlin and one to Praha. That is probably the reason why they signed both.


Fair enough. I accidentally overlooked that important point. Apologies


----------



## ChrisZwolle

S3 is a long expressway but it doesn't serve any really important cities south of Szczecin. Legnica, Zielona Góra and Gorzów Wielkopolski all have populations around 100,000 - 140,000 and except for Legnica, they aren't major junctions for road traffic (compared to cities like Szczecin, Poznań or Wrocław). This makes Prague (Praha) a much more important city on that route, despite being pretty far away. 

Is Legnica a well-known city in Poland? It is the smallest among the three cities on S3 mentioned. My thinking is that it is overshadowed by Wrocław. 

Wrocław itself could be a suitable city on the signs of S3 as well, at least on the southern portions of the route. Think of it as a network, not only are cities directly on a given motorway important, but also cities that can be reached via other motorways it crosses. Germany uses this principle extensively, and most countries do that to some degree.


----------



## SRC_100

🔼🔼
Legnica is quite well-known around Poland, what`s more, Legnica is the second/third (with Wałbrzych) biggest city in Dolnośląskie voivodeship after ofcourse Wrocław.
But Zielona Góra is better known than Legnica and ZG is the capital of Lubuskie (Lubush) voivodeship, together with Gorzów Wielkopolski which is a little bit smaller and less known than ZG.
Beside above, it is worth remembering that S3 is directly connected with A2 motorway (Poznań, Łódź, Warszawa, Berlin).


----------



## Chris80678

Patriotów interchange is nearing completion:









Just the two roundabouts on the right hand side of photo to finish off

More photos can be found here:

[S2] Południowa Obwodnica Warszawy (Puławska - Lubelska...

The whole of Section C (from Wał Miedzeszyński interchange to Lubelska interchange) of S2 Warsaw Southern Bypass is practically complete now


----------



## Niemiec w Polsce

Does anyone know if there is a plan to have a temporary ending of the S5 at the Interchange of Szubin North in order to avoid the complex current detour across the rails? Something like this (red marked:


----------



## Kemo

Yes.


----------



## Niemiec w Polsce

Kemo said:


> Yes.


Thanks for you answer.
Is there any time plan? I know the construction of the small section between the interchange and beginning of contract for part 6 is ongoing but last pictures show a really advanced status.


----------



## Tonik1

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is Legnica a well-known city in Poland? It is the smallest among the three cities on S3 mentioned. My thinking is that it is overshadowed by Wrocław.


Legnica is historic city. In school you learn it was invaded by Mongols during their first invasion on Poland.









Battle of Legnica - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Legnica is also "capital" of "LGOM" (copper basin-one of the biggest in the world), industrial region with around 500 000 population (LEgnica, Lubin, Głogów, Polkowice)


----------



## Chris80678

I've been to Legnica and Wrocław (which I love)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Hmmm, Lubawka again. Without country ovals. If you didn't know better, you'd think Lubawka is a major metropolitan city to be signed so far in advance. 

Also, why is Wrocław signed via DK25?











This is all very small. What kind of font size do they use in Poland? Especially those white destinations are small and in this case includes a quite long name too...


----------



## Chris80678

Traffic Sign Typefaces: Poland


When I first saw a digital version of the Polish traffic typeface, I though I must have gotten a really bad digitization. It had characters which were obviously cut off by mistake … But I later found out that this is the way the typeface is supposed to look like according to the official specific...




typography.guru





Examples of signage on S2 Warsaw Southern Bypass:


----------



## steve5

S3 Lubin - Polkowice










S3 Bolków - Kamienna Góra


----------



## Chris80678

Where and from whom did the date of 20th November for the opening of one carriageway of S3 (Polkowice - Lubin) come from on the videos above?


----------



## MtGrz

Author of the film claims, that the date is from construction manager (kierownik budowy). That could be truth, because whole west carriageway is in last layer of asphalt (maybe except of Lubin Północ exit) and most of it is being painted. Also, viaduct to Biedrzychowa village is being finished. So we could expect some new 1+1 configuration soon.


----------



## Chris80678

Some excellent photos of signage on S2 posted by mauritius96 on this page (post no #42,009)









[S2/79] Południowa Obwodnica Warszawy


Patrzenie któryś juz miesiąc z rzędu na gotowy i zamknięty Wał Miedzeszyński zaczyna być dla mnie jakas formą tortury. Jeden krótki artykuł w jakiejś lokalnej gazecie i raz dwa by się wzięli za to. A tak kierowcy kręcą swoje ślaczki po budowie. Ciekawe czy ten aktywista co krzyczał "ręce precz...




www.skyscrapercity.com




One sign from Lubelska interchange doesn't even feature Świecko














- that's progress!
We are still stuck with Terespol














.

I won't dig up that debate again though


----------



## PovilD

Terespol is so Post-Soviet-area sounding name, reminds me of Tiraspol in Transdnistria 

...and E30 was one of the main entrances to USSR from Western Europe  From Berlin, to Minsk to Moscow.


----------



## rakcancer

Terespol as a matter of fact is a (real) border town of EU. I don't see any problem to show it on signs.


----------



## PovilD

rakcancer said:


> Terespol as a matter of fact is a (real) border town of EU. I don't see any problem to show it on signs.


We in Vilnius, Lithuania (Polish may know it as Wilno) which is capital city of the country and situated near Belarus border use dozen of signs for Belorussian cities: Minsk, Lida, Polatsk, Grodno. Some says it's kinda too much. Apart from Minsk and Polatsk it might make no sense to put those cities, since it forget important Lithuanian cities (Šalčininkai, Alytus) where most people drive to, but features cities that not many people are driving to. Maybe it has some slightly idealist reasons that Belarus will become more open one day soon.

Medininkai for Minsk or Lavoriškės for Polatsk wouldn't make much sense (although people know Medininkai as border crossing point), but Druskininkai instead of/along with Grodno or Šalčininkai instead of/along with Lida makes some sense. The place must have at least some of significance.


----------



## Strzala

S19 Kraśnik bypass:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

PovilD said:


> Some says it's kinda too much. Apart from Minsk and Polatsk it might make no sense to put those cities, since it forget important Lithuanian cities (Šalčininkai, Alytus) where most people drive to, but features cities that not many people are driving to.


One of the principles of signage is that it's meant for people most likely not familiar with a situation. Major cities are typically better known than small towns among drivers not from that area. So Minsk gives a better sense of where a road leads to than Medininkai. Of course there's nobody stopping them from signing both, but border villages alone are insufficient.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interesting.


----------



## rakcancer

Terespol and other small towns on the border of EU in my opinion have much more sense to be on signs. There is a physical border in place. I think for lot of drivers especially from outside Poland this is quite important information.This is a must stop for them, sometimes for hours before continuing to neighbor country. Truck drivers traveling to Russia, Ukraine or Bielarus would definitely prefer to know how much left to the border than how much is to the next city which for them may be totally meaningless on their route. 
On the other hand of course, names of villages or towns on internal borders of EU are not that important anymore and it shouldn't be marked on every sign.


----------



## Chris80678

@ChrisZwolle Did you get that photo of the sign without Świecko on it from the link to the Polish forum which I provided?
If so, thank you

I didn't post that photo as I wanted to save people's bandwidth (which is why I only gave a link to the page where the photos are)

Photos of Patriotow interchange posted by @wkoss are here:









[S2/79] Południowa Obwodnica Warszawy


Patrzenie któryś juz miesiąc z rzędu na gotowy i zamknięty Wał Miedzeszyński zaczyna być dla mnie jakas formą tortury. Jeden krótki artykuł w jakiejś lokalnej gazecie i raz dwa by się wzięli za to. A tak kierowcy kręcą swoje ślaczki po budowie. Ciekawe czy ten aktywista co krzyczał "ręce precz...




www.skyscrapercity.com


----------



## steve5

*S2 Warsaw southern bypass, South Bridge, 25.10.2020:*




The central section of the Warsaw Southern Ring Road within the S2 expressway is 6.5 km long, of which the bridge over the Vistula River is about 1.5 km long. The deadline for commissioning the facility for drivers, confirmed by the contractor, is December 2020.

*S2 Warsaw southern bypass, South Bridge, 27.10.2020:*




Construction of the South Bridge along the S2 expressway bypass of Warsaw. It will connect the "Przyczółkowa" junction located in Wilanów with the "Wał Miedzeszyński" junction in Wawer. It will be the 9th road bridge, the longest (1.5 km with access roads) and the southernmost across the Vistula River in the capital.

*S2 Warsaw southern bypass, Patriotów Junction, 28.10.2020:*




Construction of the Patriotów junction along the S2 southern Warsaw bypass. Construction status as of Oct 28, 2020. The planned completion date for most of the sections (except for the section in Ursynów district) is December 2020. The planned completion date of the section running through the Ursynów district is June 2021.

*S2 Warsaw southern bypass, Ursynów Tunnel, 29.10.2020:*




4.6 km from the "Puławska" junction to the "Przyczółkowa" junction.

*S2 Warsaw southern bypass, Przyczółkowa Junction, 01.11.2020:*


----------



## Chris80678

I really can't wait for this road to open!

One of Poland's finest roads


----------



## geogregor

Finest or not it is one of the most important missing links in the whole network. Long overdue.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Unfortunately this seems to be a common thing. They also have a poor track record in other Central/Eastern European countries and also some rail and tunnel projects in Scandinavia.

It is often an indication that their domestic market isn't doing so well if companies try foreign adventures. Spain had this problem as well, though Spanish construction giants seem to do better abroad than Italian ones. Turkish companies are also moving into the Balkans and eastern EU.

It's not uncommon for this type of companies to think they can take advantage of a perceived relaxed regulatory environment in other countries. They think they can get away with slow progress. I believe the Chinese contract for S14 isn't doing so hot either.


----------



## Daniel749

^^ Stecol started good, but they have not received the final construction permit yet.


----------



## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> How many Italian contracts have been canceled by now?


8 road contracts IIRC

1 x Toto
4 x Impresa
3 x Salini


Regarding S7 in Kraków - GDDKiA actually wanted to exclude Salini from the tender, but they went to the court and won the case... so GDDKiA had to sign the contract.

That's the opposite of the situation with Impresa on S61: GDDKiA wanted to sign a contract with them, but Impresa went to the court to argue that GDDKiA should exclude them from the tender








At the end of the day, it did not help much, because we got Toto instead...


----------



## sponge_bob

geogregor said:


> Also, why are Italians doing so badly in Poland?


Not Astaldi who are also a part of Webuild and also working on the S7 further south, Salini certainly. Salini seem to be the new Alpine Bau for anyone who remembers that shower when they were cocking things up all over Eastern Europe. 


Kemo said:


> Regarding S7 in Kraków - GDDKiA actually wanted to exclude Salini from the tender, but they went to the court and won the case... so GDDKiA had to sign the contract.


The design portion of that DB contract seemed to last forever too, certainly longer than the contract said.

As the design was eventually signed off I assume a replacement tender for Salini on the S7 is a build only one???


----------



## PovilD

ChrisZwolle said:


> It is often an indication that their domestic market isn't doing so well if companies try foreign adventures. Spain had this problem as well, though Spanish construction giants seem to do better abroad than Italian ones. Turkish companies are also moving into the Balkans and eastern EU.


There were issues with one Turkish company in one infrastructure project (stadium+surroundings) in my city, so things got delayed for at least few years.

...so I can relate here too  although our road administration and city municipalities usually hire companies from Lithuania or surrounding countries, don't recall about far away areas, and usually things get in time when construction starts.


----------



## MichiH

Kemo said:


> 8 road contracts IIRC
> 
> 1 x Toto
> 4 x Impresa
> 3 x Salini


And how many "Italian jobs" have not been canceled? How many were completed on schedule?


----------



## Kemo

MichiH said:


> And how many "Italian jobs" have not been canceled? How many were completed on schedule?


All Astaldi contracts on S5 and S8 have been completed successfully without much delay. The tunnel sections on S2 and S7 are already delayed (but it is acceptable, the timelines were apparently too optimistic), but at least there is no risk of Astaldi abandoning these contracts.
Toto and Impresa completed 0 contracts.
Salini completed one contract without much delay and another one with 3 years delay.


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> It is often an indication that their domestic market isn't doing so well if companies try foreign adventures. Spain had this problem as well, though Spanish construction giants seem to do better abroad than Italian ones.


Yes, but why Spanish companies do better than the Italian ones? 

One factor might be that Spaniards bought some old existing Polish companies so they had local staff from early years. But is it the whole explanation? 



> It's not uncommon for this type of companies to think they can take advantage of a perceived relaxed regulatory environment in other countries. They think they can get away with slow progress. I believe the Chinese contract for S14 isn't doing so hot either.


China is completely different case, country with different legal and engineering culture. But off all the EU companies building in Poland Italians seem to be doing particularly badly. Why?


----------



## rakcancer

I think that must be some cultural reasons. Italians have the same problems on their own marken not only with road construction. They are just not organized well. That how it is there. Though they are capable of creating beautiful things like Sistine Chapel or Ferraris...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

geogregor said:


> One factor might be that Spaniards bought some old existing Polish companies so they had local staff from early years. But is it the whole explanation?


I've read about another project of Itinera in Denmark that was delayed because almost all staff was flown in from Italy instead of sourced locally. Which was a problem during the pandemic.


----------



## Chris80678

A video (dated 26.11.20) of S2 / S17 interchange near the outskirts of Warsaw:






View is looking west down S2 (going upwards in the centre)

The video below shows what the interchange looked like just 6 months ago:


----------



## Nowax

*[S1] Zywiec - Zwardon (SK)























































Source: *





 Rozpoczęliśmy drążenie tuneli na drodze ekspresowej S1 [film] | MIRBUD S.A.


Rozpoczęliśmy drążenie tuneli na drodze ekspresowej S1 [film]




mirbud.pl


----------



## Dusha

I really wonder about a different thing, WHAT is the economical sense for Salini, Impresa and Toto to participate in the tenders putting unrealistic offers which they are not able to fulfill.?
Salini even went to the court... to be allowed to participate.

Are there any financial penalties to the contractor if schedule is not met and contract gets canceled?
Or it just money laundering? 

You win the tender, you get some initial funding, you do nothing, you quit and keep the money?

Otherwise I don't understand the economical logic for these companies to participate.


----------



## Stuu

Dusha said:


> I really wonder about a different thing, WHAT is the economical sense for Salini, Impresa and Toto to participate in the tenders putting unrealistic offers which they are not able to fulfill.?
> Salini even went to the court... to be allowed to participate.


They _can_ use the value of the contracts as part of their assets/cashflow and borrow money as a result. Also more contracts will inflate the share price... Not saying that is why they did it, but it's possible


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Maybe they think they can get away with a half-built project and then demand more money to complete it. 

I get the feeling that many foreign construction companies underestimate GDDKiA's willingness to just cancel a contract instead of rewarding such practices with more money.


----------



## SRC_100

🔼🔼
This is exactly the case with the most Italian companies.


----------



## Kemo

S10 motorway between junctions Kobylanka and Stargard-West (6.4 km) has been opened today in full profile. It was previously a 1x2 expressway and has now been upgraded. It extends the existing section of S10 just east of Szczecin to 26 km.
Construction took 20 months and wac completed in schedule.
S10 is a motorway, which will connect Szczecin with Warsaw via Bydgoszcz.

Map: OpenStreetMap



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1332668779432726529


----------



## SRC_100

🔼🔼
Calling this road a _*motorway *_is in my opinion a big abuse...
This is just regular, ordinary double carriageway road and has nothing to do with real motorway...


----------



## Kemo

Are you starting this trolling again? Please stop...


----------



## SRC_100

🔼🔼
C`m on, I just expressed my opinion, you may or not agree.
Calling me a troll just because you, as I suppose, do not agree with me is slightly unfair.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Chris80678 said:


> Why? Lack of progress?


According to GDDKiA they got the construction permit in July but haven't mobilized the construction site. Only some clearing was done and construction roads were built but no actual road construction commenced. On 5 October they gave Salini the order to mobilize construction within a month, which they didn't and now the contract got canceled.

Kudos to GDDKiA, just a day or two ago we were discussing the terrible delays with Italian contracts in Romania where the contracts were not canceled but opened to traffic more than 4 years behind schedule.


----------



## Eulanthe

Sponsor said:


> Is it? It will carry heavy traffic. As far as I know urban expressway is rather serving a city's traffic itself.


I think it is, as there's going to be a lot of local traffic using it for short hops. It's the same with the S8, it's an urban expressway that carries both local and long distance traffic. Of course, not all of the S2 is an urban expressway - the section that will open now is definitely a long distance route, as Warsaw doesn't seem to be developing in that direction.


----------



## Chris80678

Eulanthe said:


> I think it is, as there's going to be a lot of local traffic using it for short hops. It's the same with the S8, it's an urban expressway that carries both local and long distance traffic. Of course, not all of the S2 is an urban expressway - the section that will open now is definitely a long distance route, as Warsaw doesn't seem to be developing in that direction.


Only A50 and S50 will be a true ring road around Warsaw as it will not pass through its suburbs


----------



## PovilD

Chris80678 said:


> Only A50 and S50 will be a true ring road around Warsaw as it will not pass through its suburbs


A0 and S0 would be cooler  ...but I understand it's due rerouting of current outer bypass of Warsaw DK50


----------



## geogregor

Chris80678 said:


> The Humber Bridge - I know it well. It is only 15 miles from my birth town of Scunthorpe (England)
> 
> I have been across it by car and on foot many times


I went to Hull cupule of years ago, mainly just to see the Humber Bridge. Magnificent structure.

It would be cool if Poland had proper suspension bridge. Of course geography of Poland is not conducive for such constructions and nowadays they would go for cable-stayed bridge anyway...


----------



## Chris80678

PovilD said:


> A0 and S0 would be cooler  ...but I understand it's due rerouting of current outer bypass of Warsaw DK50


Like the M0 around Budapest

However as you say, A50 / S50 chosen to reflect the upgrade of current DK50

On another subject, Wałcz bypass (S10) may open on 10th December 2020


----------



## Strzala

S19 Janów Lubelski bypass in winter scenery:


----------



## Chris80678

A video of Ursynów Tunnel on S2:






Video made on 8th December 2020 and posted by @Bob-budowlaniec in the Polish forum


----------



## Chris80678

Strzala said:


> S19 Janów Lubelski bypass in winter scenery:


Looks very pretty


----------



## Kemo

Design & build contracts for 3 sections of S19 south of Białystok have already been signed.


----------



## Rysse

S3 Bolków - Kamienna Góra section























































more - S3 Legnica (A4) - Lubawka zadanie III


----------



## Kemo

In odrer to fight global warming, the surface of S2 in Warsaw has been painted white, so that it absorbs less solar radiation.



KubiKubi said:


>


----------



## Chris80678

Looks extremely picturesque and pretty (until it melts that is)


----------



## Nowax

Chris80678 said:


> Looks like snow to me, ❄ not paint!


----------



## Rombi

www.auto-swiat.pl/wiadomosci/aktualnosci/udowa-drogi-s6-ruszyl-przetarg-na-ostatni-odcinek-w-woj-pomorskim/d449kp1.amp

Finally tenders for last sections Słupsk-Lębork


----------



## Chris80678

Here is Southern Bridge on S2 without snow:






Patriotów interchange (photo posted by @wkoss in the Polish forum):










Warszawa Wilanów interchange (photo posted by @Poler in the Polish forum):


----------



## Chris80678

It has been officially announced today that S2 Warsaw Southern Bypass (Warsaw Wilanów- Lubelska exits) opens on 22nd Dec 2020 at 10.00am

So that means that some of the current DK2 through central and eastern Warsaw becomes DK92









Południowa Obwodnica Warszawy. Tak prezentuje się fragment drogi od węzła Lubelska. Otwarcie jeszcze w tym roku







warszawa.naszemiasto.pl


----------



## rakcancer

Rombi said:


> www.auto-swiat.pl/wiadomosci/aktualnosci/udowa-drogi-s6-ruszyl-przetarg-na-ostatni-odcinek-w-woj-pomorskim/d449kp1.amp
> 
> Finally tenders for last sections Słupsk-Lębork


That would be really unexpected yet fantastic.


----------



## Kemo

Section Tarczyn-South - Głuchów of S7 motorway has been opened today, 4 months ahead of schedule.
As usual for motorways constructed along the old alignment, it is not yet a "full" opening with default speed limit, but nonetheless 2x2 lanes are available and there are no at-grade intersections.

Map: OpenStreetMap


----------



## Chris80678

Wow. That's impressive 👏

What's going on with the S7 between Tarczyn South and Warsaw?

Construction is suspended there is it not?


----------



## Strzala

It's weird for me, that signs direct people to Puławy via DW 801 but don't direct via S2/S17/S12 which is much safer, faster, comfortable and only 10 kilometres longer:


----------



## Chris80678

sponge_bob said:


> When is the tunnel section of S2 (and the complete road) scheduled to open now???


Possibly in March or April 2021


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

Chris80678 said:


> Possibly in March or April 2021


You are an optimist. But let's not spoil this day...


----------



## Chris80678

Jakub Warszauer said:


> You are an optimist. But let's not spoil this day...


That's why I said possibly

Merry Christmas to all forum users wherever you are


----------



## Strzala




----------



## Kemo

sponge_bob said:


> When is the tunnel section of S2 (and the complete road) scheduled to open now???


GDDKiA states that in mid 2021.



Stuu said:


> That seems a sub-optimal to say the least. Was raising the railway above the intersection considered? Seems odd to leave it all connected across a level crossing


This level crossing will be permanently closed today, traffic will be redirected through the interchange.


----------



## Stuu

Kemo said:


> This level crossing will be permanently closed today, traffic will be redirected through the interchange.


Ok thanks, I have just looked at the layout on OSM, so local traffic will go via the C/D lanes of the intersection


----------



## Chris80678




----------



## SRC_100

🔼 🔼
Imo there is no any sense to open the road without opening tunnel under ursynów district


----------



## RipleyLV

Strzala said:


> It's weird for me, that signs direct people to Puławy via DW 801 but don't direct via S2/S17/S12 which is much safer, faster, comfortable and only 10 kilometres longer:


I guess they had to put something for the sake of putting something in the opposite direction, as looking in maps the DW801 ends at Puławy. The same logic is also applied here in Latvia.


----------



## zakrzemarski

del


----------



## Chris80678

SRC_100 said:


> 🔼 🔼
> Imo there is no any sense to open the road without opening tunnel under ursynów district


Perhaps

Better to take some of the transit traffic out of central Warsaw with this part of S2 though

Video of first cars on S2 Warsaw Wilanów - Lubelska:






Lubelska - Warszawa Wilanów:


----------



## Strzala

S19 Kraśnik bypass, December 2020:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Is that white sign below the truck ban actually meant to be read, or does it symbolize something?


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

Well, this is useless off course. However, I believe that this is info about the standard truck ban in Warsaw. Professional truck drivers should be aware of the details.


----------



## Strzala

@ChrisZwolle meant to be read. It means that truck ban is valid from hour to hour and all day for trucks riding only transit through Warsaw.


----------



## Kanadzie

every trucker: "too long, didn't read"


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The largest text on the sign is in fact the exit number R15.


----------



## PovilD

Sometimes I think why Lithuania have such outdated and not too logical directional signage with poorly signed minor junctions on motorways and ugly looking advance signs.

I think the reason is quite geographical. We are at the centre of "illogical signage" in EU and instant neighborhood  Esp. when Poland lags behind in terms of signage design comparing with the rest of Višegrad countries. I don't have much to complain about Hungary, Czechia and even Slovakia (if talking about new font, ofc). Poland still maintains many aspects in signage that I don't like. Latvia is similar story, although design is better (=updated), but I see the directions itself could be more informative, and it feels lacking logicalness almost in same manner as Polish signs (if talking about sign placement, and information provided). Estonian situation is comparable to that in the rest of Višegrad countries (but with more Nordic flavor), the only thing I would complain is the feeling that they sometimes spend too much on signage, and signs could be smaller, but still useful. I don't even want to start with Belarus and Russia, although Belarus is comparable with Lithuania here (about the same level of informativity from what I seen, maybe Lithuania a very tiny bit better).

These comparisons bring me memories about childhood when I started to like scrolling Google Maps, I quickly got feeling that in terms of road development, Polish road development situation is relatively similar to that in The Baltics: signage, junctions, 2x2 sections. Czechia, Hungary, and even Slovakia looked like The West from the maps. Now Poland is ahead in terms of new motorways/expressways, but it was dire situation 10-15 years ago. Baltics could start to do better job at refurbishing Via Baltica at least for catching up  Kaunas-Marijampolė and Estonian expressways are good start


----------



## rakcancer

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is that white sign below the truck ban actually meant to be read, or does it symbolize something?


This is obviously joke. Dark joke.


----------



## rakcancer

That info for trucks above is extreme but just the tip of the iceberg. Polish signage system is one of the worst I have seen. It basically tries to fit as much information as possible into as small as possible signs. In the same sign there is so many symbols, arrows, different font types and sizes. One big mess that sometimes hard to figure out while driving over 100km/h. Is this due unwise law or just luck of common sense or something else? Probably some of our forum colleagues will know better. The whole experimental signage in last years didn't really improve much. It may make signs a bit clearer with better directional arrows but still that is not enough. Most signs are just too small with too much info in it. Very rounded font doesn't help here either. On the top of that I personally hate these little cross bar supports that are so common in Poland. They just look like temporary, construction site structures taken from support of big cranes. I literally look everywhere to the west, north , south or even east and find signs more eye pleasing and more useful then in Poland. Maybe Baltic countries are not so good to follow but I think they improved in last year too. In my opinion the whole sign system in Poland should be reviewed and designed from scratch.


----------



## PovilD

rakcancer said:


> Maybe Baltic countries are not so good to follow but I think they improved in last year too. In my opinion the whole sign system in Poland should be reviewed and designed from scratch.


What I adore about Lithuania (incl. rest of Baltics too), is that their arrow standard on motorways has improved. There are not more arrows than necessary, and resemble German standard a bit.
Examples from newest projects:









Pašiliai has one arrow under it. The other one is ordinary road lane indicator sign. We can argue if this designing is good.









What I don't like is that they keep 80s Soviet GOST design unlike Latvia or Estonia. It could be good if they use more good practice of West European signs.

---
Polish signs, similarly like Latvian signs, for me have slightly better look. You can feel it while driving in Poland.

Lithuania:








Poland (similarly looking sign):









Latvia has updated to more pleasant looking DIN font, while Poles have always used lower case font which improve general look a bit, but yeah, in the end of the day, probably nor Poland, nor Baltics are good examples, except in some ways Estonia


----------



## keber

There should be some public relations service at GDDKiA, right? Does no one them ask the obvious question to responsible, "how to read this?" Ta least here in Slovenia such sign would be in yellow media as quick as possible and only a day later even in national media. It would be solved in matter of days at most.


----------



## PovilD

keber said:


> There should be some public relations service at GDDKiA, right? Does no one them ask the obvious question to responsible, "how to read this?" Ta least here in Slovenia such sign would be in yellow media as quick as possible and only a day later even in national media. It would be solved in matter of days at most.


I have an perception that in general public, good directions are seen as something that only Germans (or others in that direction in general) are worrying about. The more East you go, the least people care (it seems). It might correlate with historical and current economical development though.


----------



## baczek333

keber said:


> There should be some public relations service at GDDKiA, right? Does no one them ask the obvious question to responsible, "how to read this?" Ta least here in Slovenia such sign would be in yellow media as quick as possible and only a day later even in national media. It would be solved in matter of days at most.


People here are too excited with new roads being built to care about signage that much. When we already get our highway system completed and it becomes a normal thing people will seek to improve minor things like signage I believe.


----------



## Dusha

I wonder why people spend so much time on debating how road signs should be looking like....
Nowadays every highway driver has a navigation device in the car which has built-in lane guidance, signs, turn navigation, traffic, etc.
I am personally do not remember when I was last time driving unknown area without navi....

Traditional signs? Well, I use them only as a backup to cobfirm navigation devices has up to date information...

And for this purpose (backup) I really don't care about size, color, logic, to be used on the traditional sign.


----------



## Kemo

Dusha said:


> I wonder why people spend so much time on debating how road signs should be looking like....
> Nowadays every highway driver has a navigation device in the car which has built-in lane guidance, signs, turn navigation, traffic, etc.
> I am personally do not remember when I was last time driving unknown area without navi....
> 
> Traditional signs? Well, I use them only as a backup to cobfirm navigation devices has up to date information...
> 
> And for this purpose (backup) I really don't care about size, color, logic, to be used on the traditional sign.


Do all navigations always have up-to-date information, including the newly opened sections of roads? I doubt that.
In particular, does the navigation you use already include S2?




keber said:


> There should be some public relations service at GDDKiA, right? Does no one them ask the obvious question to responsible, "how to read this?" Ta least here in Slovenia such sign would be in yellow media as quick as possible and only a day later even in national media. It would be solved in matter of days at most.


The maxim here is "_*niedasie*_" which in this context can be loosely translated to "everything is done according to the regulations, so we can't change it, even if it lacks functionality and common sense"

It is the quintessence of Poland, it lies deeply within our cultural code.


----------



## Dusha

Kemo said:


> Do all navigations always have up-to-date information, including the newly opened sections of roads? I doubt that.
> In particular, does the navigation you use already include S2?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maxim here is "_*niedasie*_" which in this context can be loosely translated to "everything is done according to the regulations, so we can't change it, even if it lacks functionality and common sense"
> 
> It is the quintessence of Poland, it lies deeply within our cultural code.


Well, Yanosik knows.
Again, my point is not about signs in general. I meant that their design , size, etc, is no longer of a great importance, esp after couple of months when all modern navis are updated.
I personally use Yanosik and Google maps without major issues.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Signage has more functions than just navigation;

There are four basic functions;


navigation: wayfinding
manoeuvering: selecting the correct lane at the correct time
confirmation.
orientation

The worse the signage, the more complex the driving task will be. In case of that sign on S2, it may not look like a big problem on a photo, but imagine someone not familiar in that area attempting to read it while there are 4 lanes of heavy traffic and lane changes. At night. During rain or snow.


----------



## SRC_100

Kemo said:


> Do all navigations always have up-to-date information, including the newly opened sections of roads? I doubt that.
> In particular, does the navigation you use already include S2?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The maxim here is "_*niedasie*_" which in this context can be loosely translated to "everything is done according to the regulations, so we can't change it, even if it lacks functionality and common sense"
> 
> It is the quintessence of Poland, it lies deeply within our cultural code.


It`s worth to note that *NIEDASIĘ *consists of 3 words as follow: *Nie Da Się* which means *It's not possible *but in slang...
From the word "_*NIEDASIĘ*_" comes the phenomenon called "_*NIEDASIZM*_". On the other hand, it seems to me that this phenomenon is less and less every year.

I agree that the signage in Poland should be created from scratch. Currently, there is nothing to improve, there is no possibility of evolution, a revolution is needed as soon as possible. It can`t wait for the A and S road construction program to be completed.


----------



## geogregor

Dusha said:


> I wonder why people spend so much time on debating how road signs should be looking like....
> Nowadays every highway driver has a navigation device in the car which has built-in lane guidance, signs, turn navigation, traffic, etc.
> I am personally do not remember when I was last time driving unknown area without navi....
> 
> Traditional signs? Well, I use them only as a backup to cobfirm navigation devices has up to date information...
> 
> And for this purpose (backup) I really don't care about size, color, logic, to be used on the traditional sign.


Even if 95% drivers will use technology for navigation you will still need traditional signage, even just for backup as you say. Technology malfunction from time to time. Batteries go flat, there are moments where mobile or GPS signal is being lost etc.

Now, if we do need physical signage anyway (and we all agree we do) why not make it right, logical and clear in the first place? It is not there for decoration, it fulfils important function, for example indicating lanes etc. All you sometimes need to create havoc is one or two "lost" drivers slowing unnecessarily just because they can't read/understand badly designed signs.

I also don't get the argument that we should build the road first with the crappy signage and somehow correct the thing years later "when the network is built". That means doing things (and paying for it) twice. Now, I know we got shower of money from the EU but we should still use it wisely.


----------



## Chris80678

Is there a delay in opening the S5 Bydgoszcz bypass (Bydgoszcz Opławiec - Białe Błota)

It's supposed to open this month isn't?

On OSM it shows in red with a status of ready, awaiting opening


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## Miguel_PL

rakcancer said:


> This is obviously joke. Dark joke.


Welcome to Poland - a place where logic is a minor topic.


----------



## Kemo

Porosły interchange. It connects S8 motorway with Białystok's inner ring road.
Opening soon.
It is the last bottleneck on the route Białystok - Warsaw.


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## PovilD

Miguel_PL said:


> Welcome to Poland - a place where logic is a minor topic.


Hey, at least junction design is more reasonable if comparing with what I've seen in Post-Soviet area (excl. Baltics) new junction designs on online maps 
Even tarmac thickness/materials are logically selected while it seems it was not the case even with my country until very recently (and even today in some cases).
...but even with your current standard, signage is still borderline unsatisfactory, just have nicer feeling than Post-Soviet area (excl. Latvia) signage.


----------



## MichiH

ChrisZwolle said:


> Signage has more functions than just navigation;
> 
> There are four basic functions;
> 
> 
> navigation: wayfinding
> manoeuvering: selecting the correct lane at the correct time
> confirmation.
> orientation
> 
> The worse the signage, the more complex the driving task will be. In case of that sign on S2, it may not look like a big problem on a photo, but imagine someone not familiar in that area attempting to read it while there are 4 lanes of heavy traffic and lane changes. At night. During rain or snow.


I found an interesting summary for a German study: https://athene-forschung.unibw.de/doc/128678/128678.pdf (DE/EN/FR)

Page 3:

The research project AWewiS - Acquisition of Information for Road Traffic Signs - focuses on the acquisition and processing of signpost information, with the aim of generating scientifically substantiated results for the construction of signposts employed in motorway and secondary road networks.

,,,

In the context of a field test, the capacity of the driver in road traffic to read road signs was determined in terms of the amount of time (net reading time) at his/her disposal surplus to that required for execution of the driving task. Based on speeds of 130km/h on motorway [...] the following net reading times were calculated for heavy traffic volumes:

For a sign displayed overhead on the motorway: *5.4 seconds*
For a sign erected at the side of the road on the motorway: *4.2 seconds*
...


----------



## SRC_100

The video of recently opened bypass of *Wałcz *town, along road no. 10 (DK10) with speed limits of 90 km/h.






PS: The video is not mine, found on youtube


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The traffic situation on A1 at Piotrków Trybunalski will improve dramatically this week with the opening of the S8 > A1 flyover tomorrow and the cloverleaf with DK74 on Wednesday, removing the giant roundabout at DK74 and the at-grade crossing at S8. 

The old flyover of S8 was demolished in December 2019. They built a new one in year's time.






Radykalna poprawa warunków przejazdu przez budowaną autostradę A1 :: Generalna Dyrekcja Dróg Krajowych i Autostrad - Serwis informacyjny


Radykalna poprawa warunków przejazdu przez budowaną autostradę A1 - brak komunikatu o id: serwis_description




www.gddkia.gov.pl





The flyover for Warsaw > Katowice traffic:


----------



## dominobb

*Design&build tenders announced in recent days:*
S19 Iskrzynia - Miejsce Piastowe 
S19 Miejsce Piastowe - Dukla
S74 Opatów bypass
S6 Koszalin Wschód - Sianów Wschód (completion works)
S7 Lesznowola - Tarczyn Północ (new tender after breaking the previous one)
S7 Widoma - Kraków (new tender after breaking the previous one)


----------



## Kirt93

GDDKiA has announced the list of A/S sections to be opened in 2021. It is significantly shorter than the list of all sections with a 2021 contract completion date, which presumably means those are the sections GDDKiA actually believes will not get delayed past 2021:

*In total 335.9 km (*):*

A1 Tuszyn - Piotrków Trybunalski Południe (15,9 km) _(reconstruction / rebuilding from scratch in place of the motorway fragment from the 1980s),_
A1 Kamieńsk - Radomsko (16,7 km) & Radomsko - voivodeship border (7 km),
S1 Pyrzowice - Podwarpie, 2nd carriageway (9,7 km),
S2 Puławska - Warszawa Wilanów (4,6 km) _(tunnel section)_,
S3 Brzozowo - Miękowo (22,1 km),
S3 Kaźmierzów - Lubin Północ (14,4 km) _(completion of Salini's ex-contract)_,
S5 Bydgoszcz Błonie - Szubin Północ (9,7 km) _(completion of Pizzarotti's ex-contract)_,
S7 Mława - Strzegowo (21,5 km) & Strzegowo - Pieńki (22 km) & Pieńki - Płońsk (13,8 km),
S7 Szczepanowice - Widoma (13,1 km),
S11 Kępno bypass (6,8 km)_ (partially 1st carriageway only)_
S17 Tomaszów Lubelski bypass (9,6 km) _(partially 1st carriageway only)_
S19 Lublin - Niedrzwica Duża (11,9 km),
S19 Kraśnik bypass (9,6 km) & Kraśnik - Janów Lubelski (18,1 km) & Janów Lubelski bypass (6,4 km) & Janów Lubelski - Lasy Janowskie (8,3 km) & Lasy Janowskie - Żdziary (9,5 km),
S19 Rudnik nad Sanem - Nisko Południe (6,5 km),
S61 Śniadowo - Łomża Południe (17 km) & Łomża bypass western fragment (7,2 km),
S61 Kolno - Stawiski (16,4 km) & Stawiski - Szczuczyn (18 km),
S61 Wysokie - Raczki (20,2 km).
Additionally, 37,7 km of DK roads (DK26, 46, 61, 77, 94).
(*) On GDDKiA's list, most of the sections which were opened in 2020 in the full profile but with speed limits (a "driveable" section) are listed as a year 2020 openings, while two of them (S3, S7) are listed as year 2021 (when they will actually receive an "S" class) instead. For consistency, I have moved those two sections to 2020 to be listed with other "driveable" openings, which changes the overall figure from 347.8 km to 335.9 km.
**

The year 2020, on the other hand, was a very weak one in terms of road openings. *134,9 km* of new A/S sections were (/ will be) opened:

A2 Warszawa Lubelska - Halinów (5,6 km) & Halinów - Mińsk Mazowiecki (9,2 km)
S2 Warszawa Wilanów - Wał Miedzeszyński (6,4 km) & Wał Miedzeszyński - Warszawa Lubelska (7,4 km) & A2/S2/S17 Warszawa Lubelska interchange _(partial opening)_ (3,5 km)
S3/A6 Szczecin Dąbie - Rzęśnica (3,5 km) _(reconstruction of the substandard section, which was still using the 1930s concrete surface laid by Nazi Germany)_
S3 Miękowo - Rzęśnica (4 km)_ (reconstruction of the substandard expressway from the 1970s featuring at-grade intersections, opened as "driveable")_
S5 Szubin bypass 2nd carriageway (4,5 km) & Szubin - Żnin (14,8 km) _("driveable")_
S5 Bydgoszcz bypass: section Bydgoszcz Opławiec - Bydgoszcz Błonie (13,5 km) - to be opened as "driveable" on Dec 31
S7 Tarczyn Północ - Grójec Północ (7,9 km) _("driveable")_
S10 Kobylanka / Morzyczyn / Zieleniowo bypass, 2nd carriageway (6,4 km)
S10 Wałcz bypass (17,8 km) _("driveable")_
S17 Warszawa Lubelska - Kołbiel (15,2 km) & S17 obwodnica Kołbieli (8,7 km) _(still "driveable" at the moment, including one set of traffic lights with 1 lane per direction near Lubelska interchange - so not a fully S-class opening yet)_
S61 Szczuczyn bypass 2nd carriageway (6,6 km)
Additionally:

57 km (out of 81 km) of the A1's 1st carriageway were opened in a temporary 2+2 profile,
14.6 km of DK road sections (DK20, 28, 73) were opened.


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## RipleyLV

As I understood in the map above correctly, the A2 between Warszawa and Łódź is planning widening?


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## SRC_100

🔼 🔼
Yes, it is.


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## Kemo

There are casualties on the construction of Via Baltica near Ełk 









Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.com


----------



## sponge_bob

Kemo said:


> There are casualties on the construction of Via Baltica near Ełk


Reminds me of the "bog of doom" project in Ireland but they stayed out of that in winter.


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## Eulanthe

Kirt93 said:


> If we admit dual carriageway DK roads, though, then the result is the one mentioned: *all 30 largest cities in Poland should be connected to the dual-carriageway network when 2021 is over*, which is pretty great!


Jelenia Góra is a big problem, though. There's a huge amount of traffic there at certain times, and IMO, they should have built a direct connection from the existing DK5/DK3 junction to Kaczorów going straight rather than that ridiculous big diversion.


----------



## RipleyLV

Kemo said:


> There are casualties on the construction of Via Baltica near Ełk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google Maps
> 
> 
> Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


Building a road on a bog field is no joke. We had a case in recent years, while rebuilding a regional road through a bog field, once they started removing old asphalt, part of the road collapsed.


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## sponge_bob

RipleyLV said:


> Building a road on a bog field is no joke.


The Irish and the Latvians who are pretty expert at bog roads tend to keep 30-40 ton machines out of them in winter.


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## Rebasepoiss

In Soviet times they often built the road dam right on top of several metres of peat - which is not ideal, of course.  These roads fall apart very quickly.


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## Kemo

Eulanthe said:


> Jelenia Góra is a big problem, though. There's a huge amount of traffic there at certain times, and IMO, they should have built a direct connection from the existing DK5/DK3 junction to Kaczorów going straight rather than that ridiculous big diversion.


This is a mountainous region, you can't just build "straight".

This whole section will be upgraded, it is currently in desigh phase:




__





Wstępne warianty przebiegu Drogi Krajowej nr 3 wraz z obwodnicą Kaczorowa – DK3 Bolków – Jelenia Góra






dk3-bolkow-jeleniagora.pl


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## Chris80678

Photo posted by @bobwwa in the Polish forum showing the concrete base in Ursynów Tunnel on S2 Warsaw Southern Bypass:

In the southern tunnel, an aggregate foundation is laid, and in the northern tunnel, a cement concrete foundation


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## Chris80678

A photo posted on Twitter by GDDKIA of Przybiernów interchange on S3:









S3 (Miękowo-Brzozowo) is expected to be fully completed in April 2021


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## Chris80678

You Tube video of latest works at Ursynów West and Ursynów East interchanges:






You Tube video of inside of Ursynów tunnel:


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## rakcancer

Can someone tell me what is going on with these 2 sections still under tender process even though adjacent sections have already signed contracts if I am not mistaken more than 6 months ago? It looks like there will be pretty inconvenient breaks in A2 and S1 when first sections already being designed will be finished much ahead of these missing pieces. Any particular reason why it takes so long to sign contract for remaining Myslowice - Oswiecim S1 and Kaluszyn-Siedlce A2 sections?


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## beschu

MtGrz said:


> Edit: I was wrong about Rybnik, Tychy and Sosnowiec, sorry.
> 
> So, it starts to look really well, hopefully we will finish most of roads planned now by 2030-35.


Interesting fact is that the old expressway S1 in Tychy will lost its expressway status and will become a municipal road. As a result Tychy (with a population of 127,000) will not have any S or A class road within its borders. 

This city also doesn't have east-west bypass of the busy DK44, which goes directy through the city with several traffic lights.

Tychy together with other cities of Katowice metropolitan area is lobbying for the metropolitan east-west bypass of A4 called "A4 bis" in a long run.
The bypass of DK44 is also far in the future.


















OpenStreetMap


OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.




www.openstreetmap.org


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## PovilD

I wonder if "A4 bis" will become A4 and current A4 section near Katowice and Gliwice will become S-class road?


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## Luki_SL

^^ A4 Katowice - Gliwice has A-class standard.
It shouldn`t be lower class road.


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## Wolfiq

rakcancer said:


> Can someone tell me what is going on with these 2 sections still under tender process even though adjacent sections have already signed contracts if I am not mistaken more than 6 months ago? It looks like there will be pretty inconvenient breaks in A2 and S1 when first sections already being designed will be finished much ahead of these missing pieces. Any particular reason why it takes so long to sign contract for remaining Myslowice - Oswiecim S1 and Kaluszyn-Siedlce A2 sections?


GDDKiA (General Directorate for National Roads and Highways) excluded China State Construction Engineering Corporation from S1 tender, KIO (National Apeal Board?) ruled that it must be included in the tender. GDDKiA disagreed and now we are waiting for court to hear the case. I have no idea what is going on with A2.


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## RipleyLV

beschu said:


> Interesting fact is that the old expressway S1 in Tychy will lost its expressway status and will become a municipal road. As a result Tychy (with a population of 127,000) will not have any S or A class road within its borders.


Is there an obligatory rule somewhere written to have S or A class roads connecting towns? As far as I remember the now existing S1/DK1 is grade separated and could be set up by the same speed limit as an S class road once the new alignment has been made.


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## beschu

Btw. if someone is interested how the new S1 or S52 (and other planned roads) will look like, please visit the German edition of OpenStreetMap (with "OSM deutscher Stil" selected):

Link: OpenStreetMap Deutschland: Karte


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## Kemo

rakcancer said:


> Can someone tell me what is going on with these 2 sections still under tender process even though adjacent sections have already signed contracts if I am not mistaken more than 6 months ago? It looks like there will be pretty inconvenient breaks in A2 and S1 when first sections already being designed will be finished much ahead of these missing pieces. Any particular reason why it takes so long to sign contract for remaining Myslowice - Oswiecim S1 and Kaluszyn-Siedlce A2 sections?


Chinese companies had the lowest bids and GDDKiA is doing everything they can to avoid signing contracts with the Chinese.


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## Strzala

S19 Nowosielec - Łowisko:


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## Uppsala

Kirt93 said:


> I would go further:_ "Europe's longest staircase" will become history in early 2021_. Opening the new A18 as a motorway is nice and all, but closing the remaining two sections of the pre-WWII carriageway for the reconstruction: now that'll truly be a historical moment!
> 
> 
> While we're awaiting this, some nice photos chronicling the last moments of the southern carriageway's lifetime on section 1 (Olszyna - Królów). Not overly recent, but so far there hasn't been any photos from this section pasted here yet (there were some from section 2).
> 
> The southern carriageway on this section has served the traffic for 82 years (1938 - 2020).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Much) more photos from the contract website uploaded in the original posts by mlodyy1985.



For several years, from 1938 to 2004, the A18 was only a "half motorway" looked like, Berlinka looked at the same time near the border with Kaliningrad (S22). It was a half profile motorway for a long time.

So the A18 is in many ways an interesting motorway when it comes to motorway history.

It is good that the A18 will now be a modern motorway with a good standard so that it can get motorway signs and the right speed. But when everything is finished, it will be difficult to see how historic this motorway really is. Compare all other sections of the Berlin-Wrocław motorway section. There is a good standard on the motorway, but not so easy to see that the motorway is really old and has an interesting history.

But sure! These are motorways. Not historical monuments.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Uppsala said:


> For several years, from 1938 to 2004, the A18 was only a "half motorway" looked like, Berlinka looked at the same time near the border with Kaliningrad (S22). It was a half profile motorway for a long time.


A18 wasn't a half profile motorway, right? A half profile motorway is just a two-lane highway with opposing traffic, built with expansion to two carriageways in mind. A18 always had two carriageways, of which one was rehabilitated and the other wasn't.


----------



## tunnel owl

From what I know, they added a completely new lane in 2004 at the space, where it had been reserved for since the 1930s. They also built (all?) bridges new, so that it will look like a new motorway after the old lane is replaced.


----------



## Wolfiq

ChrisZwolle said:


> A18 wasn't a half profile motorway, right? A half profile motorway is just a two-lane highway with opposing traffic, built with expansion to two carriageways in mind. A18 always had two carriageways, of which one was rehabilitated and the other wasn't.


There was only southern carrigeway ready with all bridges etc designed for 2nd carriageway. Only about 100km east of Wrocław had 2 lanes, but that's part of A4 now.


----------



## Chris80678

A nice summary of expected road openings in 2021:






N.B.

S2 Warsaw Wilanów - Lubelska exits is complete and open.

S5 Bydgoszcz northern and western bypass is complete and open.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Wolfiq said:


> There was only southern carrigeway ready with all bridges etc designed for 2nd carriageway. Only about 100km east of Wrocław had 2 lanes, but that's part of A4 now.


Interesting, I thought the entire route had four lanes from the beginning and they only rehabilitated one direction in 2004-2006.


----------



## Uppsala

ChrisZwolle said:


> A18 wasn't a half profile motorway, right? A half profile motorway is just a two-lane highway with opposing traffic, built with expansion to two carriageways in mind. A18 always had two carriageways, of which one was rehabilitated and the other wasn't.



Well, the A18 was certainly a half profile motorway. Parts of the A4 were also that. This during the Cold War. It was not until the 1990s that it began to be completed on the A4 and A18 on the route that actually runs between Berlin and Wrocław. That is why I point out that one should compare with what the S22 looked like before the S22 was renovated. The A18 had the same look. Of course it was a half profile motorway.

The Germans did not have the resources to build the Berlin-Wrocław section as a complete motorway. So they contented themselves with building parts of the motorway as half profile, and yet in their propaganda point out that it was a motorway on the stretch, even though it was half profile on several parts.

It was after 2004 that the A18 became complete. And the A18 has in recent years actually been a complete motorway, but in poor condition if you drive eastbound. And because of the poor condition, they did not want to put up motorway signs.


----------



## Chris80678

A short video of Przybiernów exit on S3:


----------



## Daniel749

After a long time I have updated my statistics (statistics are bilingual pl+eng):

--> overviews of motorways A1, A2, A4, A6, A8, A18 & A50

--> overviews of expressways S1, S2, S3, S5, S6, S7, S8, S10, S11, S12, S14, S16, S17, S19, S22, S50, S51, S52, S61, S74 & S79

--> New sections of motorways and expressways and bypasses of national roads realized over the years 2014-2020 (tenders 2013-2019/EU budget period 2014-2020) and 2021-2027 (tenders 2020-2026/EU budget period 2021-2027)

*Overview of motorways and expressways in Poland*


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## Kirt93

ChrisZwolle said:


> Interesting, I thought the entire route had four lanes from the beginning and they only rehabilitated one direction in 2004-2006.


From 1945 till 2000 (when the first section of a new 2nd carriageway east of Wrocław was opened), between the D/PL border and Gliwice there was ~110 km of four-lane sections, ~120 km of two-lane sections, and ~90 km of unfinished constructions of two-lane sections (not opened to traffic). So, actually, only about 1/3rd on the post-German route had been a full profile before the reconstructions/resurfacings. (Details of the sections: Highways_in_Poland#Before_World_War_II)


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## sponge_bob

Daniel749 said:


> after a long time, I have updated my statistics (statistics are bilingual pl+eng):


So it looks like Poland will easily hit 75% of the planned network either Open/building/tendered by end 2022 and even if the network is expanded again like it was with the A50 in 2019 that will not drop below 75% in future.

After that it is endgame. Making the network is resilient and connecting isolated large towns and small cities to it. Well done, well past half way now from nowhere less than 20 years ago.


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## MichiH

Daniel749 said:


> *Overview of motorways and expressways in Poland*


Does the right column "construction costs" cover all opened sections since 1970s or does it even include the pre-war sections?


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## Daniel749

^^ No, the oldest section which is counted is the section of A4 from Katowice Mikolowska to Katowice Murckowska (3,88 km). It was opened on 10th November of 1999. In an online document I founded, the contract was signed with an Italian company and the costs were 24 million zloty. For older sections, I found no online documents with construction costs. The costs for construction of the old Gierkówka is not counted.

In general, the column is based on the column "Construction costs" in the overview of each road.

The german version of the overview: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/ewnxc4rmh8sh5f0/AiS-de.png


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## MichiH

Daniel749 said:


> ^^ No, the oldest section which is counted is the section of A4 from Katowice Mikolowska to Katowice Murckowska (3,88 km). It was opened on 10th November of 1999.


Does it include all sections which have been opened later?

I suggest adding another note **

Have you excluded planning costs in case of Design + Build contracts? Or have you added design planning costs for vanilla building contracts?


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## sponge_bob

MichiH said:


> Have you excluded planning costs in case of Design + Build contracts?


Land purchase and compensation of landowners would cost more than planning would. These costs in western Europe combined are c.25-33% of a project but that also includes infinite reviews, reports, and court cases by nimbys. 

There is this...



https://www.eca.europa.eu/lists/ecadocuments/sr13_05/sr13_05_en.pdf


----------



## Chris80678

A stunning photo taken by @Poler on S2 Warsaw Southern Bypass:


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## ChrisZwolle

*S7 Miechów – Szczepanowice*



https://www.gov.pl/web/infrastruktura/umowa-na-s7-miechow--szczepanowice-podpisana



What is the opinion of Polish SSC on this contractor? Fabe Polska + Sine Midas Stroy? I looked into this, and Fabe is a subsidiary of Sine Midas, which in turn is a Kazakh construction company, their portfolio also only exclusively lists Kazakh road projects, though Fabe has been working on sections of S5 and S7 in Poland.


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## Maciek_CK

I know nothing of Sine Midas Stroy, but Fabe Polska sp. z o.o. was one of the subcontractors on the infamous S7 Chęciny – Jędrzejów section. It is reported to have a couple of machines and a bitumen plant in its portfolio. As far as I know this is the first time they have been chosen as a (general) contractor in Poland. What is interesting and worrying, their offer (and several others) was way below GDDKiA’s intended budget (a little over 60%) and initially they were rejected from the tender, but after filing an appeal, the National Appeals Chamber has ordered to reinstate them. After reassessing, GDDKiA has chosen them as the winning bid.

The section has a little over 5 kilometers with no intersections, so apart from securing the proper documentation (obtaining required approvals, permits and decisions to start construction) there is not much to worry about (construction-wise). Although it is worth mentioning it is yet another infamous section of S7: it forms a bypass of a little village on the prairie called Poradów of which a group of residents have made it one the longest administrative procedures in the country regarding road infrastructure. Their complaints and appeals resulted in a partial reversal of the environmental decision which then resulted in splitting a tender into two pieces and a new environmental decision had to be achieved for this small section. I remember analyzing the situation a couple of years ago and being able to point out that their complaints were mostly based on insinuations (like not being invited to community consultations) and a need to put the road somewhere else (a classical NIMBY situation) with a complete disregard to the negative impact it would have (extra cost, unnecessary nature interference etc.). The reversal itself was a result of an inadequate justification for the selected road course, not for the reasons the residents were raising. It was then just easier to split it and proceed with the Poradów bypass again.

The funny (and ferocious) thing is, after all these years the selected road course is almost identical (the difference is reportedly 15 meters) and the expressway will still go through the little village on the prairie called Poradów. Just not in time for EURO 2012 as previously planned.


----------



## rakcancer

A2 - Finally, contract for design and construction of missing section between Minsk Mazowiecki and Siedlce (13km between Groszki and Grezlow) has been signed with STECOL Corporation.
It looks like Chinese company won after months of fights with GDDKiA... 
Source: Trzecia umowa na projekt i budowę A2 Mińsk Mazowiecki - Siedlce podpisana :: Generalna Dyrekcja Dróg Krajowych i Autostrad - Serwis informacyjny


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## PovilD

Sponsor said:


> Somehow I'm curious who lives here: Google Maps


Reminds me of that state apparatus special households in Post-Soviet states.


----------



## Kemo

PovilD said:


> Dig a tunnel or smth  Is it possible there?


The purple part on the map is a potential tunnel.
The red alignment was the one which was chosen over 10 years ago and was also included in the city's spatial plans.
Two years ago, the green alignment was chosen. But again, it also got protested and now we are left with nothing.


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## Chris80678

Wall panelling in Ursynów Tunnel:

















Photos posted @Mixiorek by in the Polish forum

GDDKIA believe it's possible that one of the tunnels could be opened at the end of March as there is only cosmetic work left to complete


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## Kemo

Yeah, March 2022, maybe.


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## ChrisZwolle

I wouldn't underestimate the duration of the installation and testing of the technical installations. In some countries this can take 6-12 months.


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## Chris80678

Wall panelling in Ursynów Tunnel:


Kemo said:


> Yeah, March 2022, maybe.


Like @Mixiorek I say no to non-believers. It is supposed to open in second quarter of 2021 and it will

Above the tunnels will be a landscaped linear park with trees, cycle paths and pedestrian boulevards


----------



## Kemo

Update on the "Chinese" contracts:

On A2 GDDKiA eventually signed the contract.
On S19 the Chinese have been successfully excluded and today a contract with Mota-Engil has been signed.
On S1 GDDKiA failed to exclude the Chinese so eventually they decided to cancel the whole tender to avoid signing the contract.







They argumented that this section is now delayed by a year compared to the neighbouring sections which will make them unusable. So they have to cancel the tender, split it into two and have the small section connecting with DK44 completed earlier than the rest of the missing section.


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## rakcancer

oh boy... (S1)...pretty twisted logic behind cancelling tender for that section... We will still have two finished pieces that will end up in the middle of nowhere on north side before "chinese" part is connected or at least connection to DK44 is finished (?)


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## rakcancer

There is a survey about new signage on polish roads on GDDKiA website. It basically asks about exits numbers, the question which for me is obvious and wouldn't be even asked for, however anyone can leave its own opinion on polish signage in general too. I think it is worth to check it out and give them some feedback:
Wyraź swoją opinię na temat oznakowania dróg krajowych! :: Generalna Dyrekcja Dróg Krajowych i Autostrad - Serwis informacyjny


----------



## PovilD

rakcancer said:


> There is a survey about new signage on polish roads on GDDKiA website. It basically asks about exits numbers, the question which for me is obvious and wouldn't be even asked for, however anyone can leave its own opinion on polish signage in general too. I think it is worth to check it out and give them some feedback:
> Wyraź swoją opinię na temat oznakowania dróg krajowych! :: Generalna Dyrekcja Dróg Krajowych i Autostrad - Serwis informacyjny


I've tried to make some insights without properly knowing Polish, just judging that my expierence with Google Translate was not that bad 
I was wondering if 3000 m for minor junctions are needed, especially when we have interchange sign instead of exit sign. Others could give insights how they could be used better. I didn't wanted to make too unclear answers with complicated matters.


----------



## MtGrz

PovilD said:


> I've tried to make some insights without properly knowing Polish, just judging that my expierence with Google Translate was not that bad
> I was wondering if 3000 m for minor junctions are needed, especially when we have interchange sign instead of exit sign. Others could give insights how they could be used better. I didn't wanted to make too unclear answers with complicated matters.


This 3000 m might be needed, because it's not always 3000 m. This is standard on new A/S roads, except when junctions are more often (mostly cities).

But to be honest, there are more important things to do in polish signage (it's quite messy).


----------



## Kielbus




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## Kielbus




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## Kielbus




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## Kielbus




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## Kielbus




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## Kielbus




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## Kielbus

https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/frontend/web/userfiles/articles/s/sprawdz-na-mapie-przygotowanie-d_3198/mapa_pbd_29_01_2021.pdf


----------



## Kielbus




----------



## dominobb

Build (B) / design&build (ZiZ) tenders to be announced in 2021 (highways, expressways and bypasses on national roads) - official list.



Daniel749 said:


> DrogaOdcinekDługośćPrzetarg naOrientacyjna wartość zamówieniaPrzewidywany termin
> ogłoszenia przetarguS10
> 25Bydgoszcz Południe – Bydgoszcz Emilianowo
> obwodnica BrzozyZiZ460 000 000,00I kwartał50obwodnica KołbieliZiZ310 500 921,00I kwartałS6zachodnia obwodnica Szczecina odc. 1, od km 1+915.00 do km 15+484.0413,57ZiZ484 959 349,00II kwartałS6zachodnia obwodnica Szczecina odc. 2, od km 15+484.04 do km 27+400.0011,92ZiZ398 512 195,00II kwartałS6zachodnia obwodnica Szczecina odc. 3, od km 27+400.00 do km 37+963.8310,56ZiZ1 999 040 650,00II kwartałS6zachodnia obwodnica Szczecina odc. 4, od km 37+963.83 do km 50+810.2012,85ZiZ585 821 138,00II kwartałS7Czosnów – KiełpinZiZ764 823 227,72II kwartałS7Kiełpin – WarszawaZiZ2 807 675 067,51II kwartałS10Bydgoszcz Emilianowo – Solec KujawskiZiZ260 000 000,00II kwartałS10Solec Kujawski – Toruń ZachódZiZ560 000 000,00II kwartałS10Toruń Zachód – Toruń PołudnieZiZ300 000 000,00II kwartałS19granica woj. maz./lub. – Międzyrzec Podlaski Północ
> druga jezdnia: Międzyrzec Podlaski Północ – Międzyrzec Podlaski Południe10,66
> 6,63ZiZ1 238 079 554,00II kwartałS19Międzyrzec Podl. Południe – Radzyń Podl. Północ22,19ZiZrazem trzy odcinki S19II kwartałS19Radzyń Podlaski Północ – Kock Północ18,28ZiZrazem trzy odcinki S19II kwartałS19Babica – Jawornik11,58ZiZ1 097 675 417,00II kwartałS19Domaradz – Iskrzynia12,53ZiZ565 099 400,00II kwartałS74Mniów – Kielce Zachód16,35ZiZ486 934 020,00II kwartał28obwodnica ChełmcaB50 500 000,00II kwartał32obwodnica StrykowoB49 388 344,00II kwartał73obwodnica Morawicy i Woli Morawickiej (etap 2)ZiZ255 973 442,00II kwartał74obwodnica Opatowa: łącznikZiZ63 816 479,00II kwartałA2rozbudowa A2: gr. woj. łódzkiego i mazowieckiego – KonotopaZiZ377 544 146,00III kwartałS6Sianów ZachódB14 866 060,00III kwartałS6Sianów Wschód – Bobrowice22,62B913 827 731,00III kwartałS6Bobrowice – Warszkowo9,60B389 496 704,00III kwartałS6Warszkowo – Słupsk Zachód14,44B589 756 309,00III kwartałS74Kielce Zachód – Kielce Bocianek5,01ZiZ678 620 780,00III kwartałS19druga jezdnia: Sokołów Małopolski Północ – Stobierna
> druga jezdnia: Stobierna – w. Rzeszów Jasionka12,50
> 2,41ZiZ196 885 876,00IV kwartał15obwodnica Koźmina WielkopolskiegoZiZ69 918 699,00IV kwartał66obwodnica Bielska PodlaskiegoZiZ52 403 086,50IV kwartał74Janów Lubelski – Frampol + obwodnica DzwoliZiZ123 154 471,54IV kwartał74obwodnica GorajcaZiZ126 829 268,29IV kwartał79obwodnica ZabierzowaB161 700 000,00IV kwartał


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## SRC_100

🔼🔼
Droga - *Road */ Odcinek - *Section */ Długość - *Length */ Przetarg na - *Tender for */ Orientacyjna wartość zamówienia - *Approximate value of the contract (PLN)* / Przewidywany termin ogłoszenia przetargu - *Estimated date of the tender announcement*
I kwartał - *1st quarter *etc.


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## Kirt93

Differences from the initial version of the 2021 tender plan:

Added: S6 Szczecin western bypass
Added: S7 Czosnów - Kiełpin - Warszawa
Added: 2nd carriageway on S19 Sokołów Małopolski - Rzeszów (as of now, a single carriageway with interchanging 2+1 profile)
Added: widening A2 Łódź - Warszawa to 2x3: the eastern half
Removed: S17 Zamość - Tomaszów Lubelski and Tomaszów Lubelski - PL/UA
Removed: S19 Kock - Lubartów and 2nd carriageway on Kock bypass
Removed: S17 northern end of Warsaw eastern bypass, due to the environmental decision having got revoked (the leftover from the 2020 tender plan)
In the whole of Poland, there remains one A/S section for which a tender could get announced as of now, yet is not intended for this year:

S16 Olsztyn - Biskupiec


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## Nowax

[A18] Olszyna - Golnice section























































Source : Dostosowanie DK18 do parametrów autostrady


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## Chris80678

Video of Ursynow Tunnel on S2:






I would not be surprised if every single planned road opening in 2021 is postponed until at least 2022 because of covid pandemic


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## Theijs

Kirt93 said:


> Differences from the initial version of the 2021 tender plan:
> [*]Removed: S17 Zamość - Tomaszów Lubelski and Tomaszów Lubelski - PL/UA


Any reason given for the removal?


----------



## Kirt93

^^ Based on what GDDKiA Lublin posted on Twitter just a moment ago, it seems like both the "removals" might've been a human error actually. We should see shortly whether the lists get updated.


----------



## sponge_bob

Kirt93 said:


> Differences from the initial version of the 2021 tender plan:
> 
> Added: S6 Szczecin western bypass


Does this include a tunnel under the Oder??


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## Kirt93

Yes


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## sponge_bob

Kirt93 said:


> Yes


That would be a €600m+ job then. It is around 50km long including the tunnel.


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## Kirt93

Yeah, that's an expensive one. The official estimates say 3.7 bln PLN for all the tenders, so about € 800 mln. Which are only the tender prices estimates, so they exclude preparations costs made so far, and the costs of buying out the land properties.

An even more expensive addition here is S7 Czosnów - Warszawa, which is 23 km long and estimated for almost 3.6 bln PLN.


----------



## sponge_bob

Kirt93 said:


> Yes, it's an expensive one.


And it seemingly goes under the old (but working) petrochemical complex in Police where the subsoil could be pure rank. I am amazed they did not avoid that.


----------



## SRC_100

Btw, yestarday were openings of bids in the tender for D&B contract of road no. 19 b/n:

1) Iskrzynia junction (incl. junction) - the Miejsce Piastowe junction (incl. junction) - cca. 10.3 km 2x2
Investor's budget: PLN 579,978 65.40

Bidders (from the cheapest):
1. Aldesa Construcciones Polska, Aldesa Construcciones - PLN 365 074 863,33
2. Budimex - PLN 392 429 332,78
3. Strabag - PLN 400 462 419,59
4. Metrostav Polska, Metrostav Infr. - PLN 424 584 147,57
5. Mostostal Warszawa, Acciona - PLN 440 034 039,89
6. Kolin - PLN 444 189 900,00
7. Mirbud. Kobylarnia - PLN 448 230 000,00
8. Mota-Engil - PLN 452 564 092,00
9. Polaqua - PLN 456 745 864,98
10. Polbud-Pomorze, MPDiM Rzeszów, INTOP Warszawa - PLN 461 051 689,23 
11. Intercor - PLN 503 485 352,41

2) Miejsce Piastowe junction (excl. junction) - Dukla junction (incl. junction) - cca. 10.1 km 2x2
Investor's budget: PLN 704 621 111,18 

Bidders (from the cheapest):
1. Strabag - PLN 478 907 636,94
2. Budimex - PLN 486 437 226,61
3. Polaqua - PLN 508 005 554,88
4. Kolin - PLN 524 668 800,00
5. Mostostal Warszawa, Acciona - PLN 546 447 562,59
6. Metrostav Polska, Metrostav Infr. - PLN 554 375 223,25
7. Intercor - PLN 568 014 000,00
8. Mota-Engil CE - PLN 573 515 409,00
9. Mirbud, Kobylarnia - PLN 586 710 000,00

Above mentioned sections (light brown):


----------



## yascoos

sponge_bob said:


> And it seemingly goes under the old (but working) petrochemical complex in Police where the subsoil could be pure rank. I am amazed they did not avoid that.


The petrochemical complex existed in Police during WWII, now it is an "ordinary" chemical factory. They produce fertilizers, sulfuric acid, ammonia, etc. They are also building a large propylene and polypropylene factory. The length of the tunnel has been increased from 3.5 km to approx. 5 km, precisely to prevent this road from running right next to this factory.


----------



## Kielbus

https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/frontend/web/userfiles/articles/n/nadzor-musi-spelniac-swoja-role_40974/pkt%20IV/Przetargi%20na%20roboty%20i%20nadz%C3%B3r%20inwestorski%20oraz%20Priorytety%20inwestycyjne.pdf


----------



## sponge_bob

Kielbus said:


> https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/frontend/... inwestorski oraz Priorytety inwestycyjne.pdf


So that says that just over 3/4 of the planned A/S network will be open/building OR tendered by the end of 2021 which to my mind translates into roughly 3/4 built around end 2024 as most sections are in easy enough terrain.


----------



## Daniel749

^^ Statistics up to page 7 is for the investment/construction supervision (polish _nadzór inwestorski/budowlany_).


----------



## Daniel749

*Tender plan for 2021 for the construction of A, S roads and ring roads on DK (date: 2021-03-03):*


RoadSection*Length*Tender for*Approximate value of the contract (PLN)**Estimated date of the tender announcement*Announcement of the tenderSigning of the contract*Value of the contract (PLN)*ContractorBranch GDDKiAS10
25Bydgoszcz South – Bydgoszcz Emilianowo
bypass of BrzozaDesign&build​460 000 000,00​1st quarter​Bydgoszcz50bypass of Kołbiel11,60​Design&build​310 500 921,00​1st quarter​WarszawaS6west bypass of Szczecin, section 1, km 1+915.00 to km 15+484.0413,57​Design&build​484 959 349,00​2nd quarter​SzczecinS6west bypass of Szczecin, section 2, km 15+484.04 to km 27+400.0011,92​Design&build​398 512 195,00​2nd quarter​SzczecinS6west bypass of Szczecin, section 3, km 27+400.00 to km 37+963.8310,56​Design&build​1 999 040 650,00​2nd quarter​SzczecinS6west bypass of Szczecin, section 4, km 37+963.83 to km 50+810.2012,85​Design&build​585 821 138,00​2nd quarter​SzczecinS7Czosnów – Kiełpin9,87​Design&build​764 823 227,72​2nd quarter​WarszawaS7Kiełpin – Warszawa12,67​Design&build​2 807 675 067,51​2nd quarter​WarszawaS10Bydgoszcz Emilianowo – Solec KujawskiDesign&build​260 000 000,00​2nd quarter​BydgoszczS10Solec Kujawski – Toruń WestDesign&build​560 000 000,00​2nd quarter​BydgoszczS10Toruń West – Toruń South12,20​Design&build​300 000 000,00​2nd quarter​BydgoszczS19Lublin/Masovian Voivodeship border – Międzyrzec Podlaski North10,66​Design&build​1 238 079 554,00​2nd quarter​KielceS192nd carriageway: Międzyrzec Podlaski North– Międzyrzec Podlaski South6,63​Design&build​sum of four sections​2nd quarter​KielceS19Międzyrzec Podl. South – Radzyń Podl. North22,19​Design&build​sum of four sections​2nd quarter​KielceS19Radzyń Podlaski North – Kock North18,28​Design&build​sum of four sections​2nd quarter​KielceS19Babica – Jawornik11,58​Design&build​1 097 675 417,00​2nd quarter​RzeszówS19Domaradz – Iskrzynia12,53​Design&build​565 099 400,00​2nd quarter​RzeszówS74Mniów – Kielce West16,35​Design&build​486 934 020,00​2nd quarter​Kielce28bypass of Chełmiec1,40​Build​50 500 000,00​2nd quarter​Kraków32bypass of Stryków (#100obw)3,00​Build​49 388 344,00​2nd quarter​Poznań73bypass od Morawica i Wola Morawiecka (etap 2)4,00​Design&build​255 973 442,00​2nd quarter​Kielce74bypass of Opatów: northern connector3,10​Design&build​63 816 479,00​2nd quarter​KielceA2expansion of A2: Łódź/Masovian Voivodeship border – Konotopa43,46​Design&build​377 544 146,00​3rd quarter​WarszawaS6Sianów WestBuild​14 866 060,00​3rd quarter​SzczecinS6Sianów East – Bobrowice22,62​Build​913 827 731,00​3rd quarter​SzczecinS6Bobrowice – Warszkowo9,60​Build​389 496 704,00​3rd quarter​SzczecinS6Warszkowo – Słupsk West14,44​Build​589 756 309,00​3rd quarter​SzczecinS74Kielce West – Kielce Bocianek5,01​Design&build​678 620 780,00​3rd quarter​Kielce73east bypass of Tarnów (I etap) (#100obw)6,30​Design&build​256 000 000,00​3rd quarter​KrakówS192nd carriageway: Sokołów Małopolski North – Stobierna
2nd carriageway: Stobierna – w. Rzeszów Jasionka12,50
2,41​Design&build​196 885 876,00​4th quarter​Rzeszów15bypass of Koźmin Wielkopolski (#100obw)5,90​Design&build​69 918 699,00​4th quarter​Poznań66bypass of Bielsk Podlaski3,00​Design&build​52 403 086,50​4th quarter​Białystok74expansion Janów Lubelski – Frampol
+ bypass of Dzwola (#100obw)
+2,70​Design&build​123 154 471,54​4th quarter​Lublin74bypass of Gorajec (#100obw)6,70​Design&build​126 829 268,29​4th quarter​Lublin79bypass of Zabierzów10,30​Build​161 700 000,00​4th quarter​Kraków*34 tasks**16 689 802 335,56*​S12
S74Piotrków Tryb. – Voivodeship border
Sulejów – Voivodeship border61,18
23,53​STEŚ update + KP​24 404 489,00​1st quarter​Łódź9bypass of Nowa Dęba (#100obw)STEŚ + KP​2 029 780,00​1st quarter​2021-02-17Rzeszów22bypass of Jegłownik
(+ projects and supervision for the tasks: expansion Fiszewo–Jegłownik, Jegłownik–Elbląg)STEŚ​3 682 314,67​1st quarter​Olsztyn28bypass of Sanok – 2nd stage3,00​KP​1 356 523,00​1st quarter​2021-03-03RzeszówS10Stargard – Piła (without bypass of Wałcz)108,83​KP​26 420 414,00​2nd quarter​SzczecinS102nd carriageway: bypass of Wyrzysk7,80​KP​771 445,00​2nd quarter​Poznań9bypass of Ostrowiec Świętokrzyski12,85​KP update​3 414 634,00​2nd quarter​Kielce15/36bypass of Krotoszyn (#100obw)STEŚ update + KP​2 764 228,00​2nd quarter​Poznań73bypass divided into sections:
1st: Pilzno; 2nd: Brzostek & Kołaczyce; 3rd: Jasło (#100obw)KP​8 130 082,00​2nd quarter​Rzeszów74bypass of Szczebrzeszyn (#100obw)​STEŚ + KP​1 249 823,50​2nd quarter​Lublin74bypass of Zamość (#100obw)STEŚ + KP​4 607 292,90​2nd quarter​Lublin46bypass of Lędziny (#100obw)STEŚ + KP​1 585 365,85​4th quarter​Opole91bypass of Srock (#100obw)3,70​KP​1 128 472,00​4th quarter​Łódź91/42bypass of RadomskoKP​2 804 878,00​4th quarter​Łódźbypass of Chrzanów/Trzebina (#100obw)STEŚ + KP​5 850 000,00​4th quarter​Kraków*15 tasks**90 199 741,92*​

_STEŚ = Technical-economical-environmental study (= materials for the decision following environmental impact assessment (EIA decision/polish: DŚU/Decyzja o środowiskowych uwarunkowaniach)); 1st stage of project documentation
KP = Program concept including design and cost documentation (=materials for announcing the design&build-tender); 2nd stage of project documentation_


----------



## Daniel749

S19 section Babica – Jawornik (11.58 km)


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1367452706936410113


----------



## kostas97

Are the A50 motorway and S50 expressway (Warsaw south & north bypass) going to be constructed?? What about them?


----------



## Lombat

kostas97 said:


> Are the A50 motorway and S50 expressway (Warsaw south & north bypass) going to be constructed?? What about them?


Those are new ideas, in early planning stage.
At this moment there is no funding for _technical-economical-enviromental study_ (stage before enviromental decision, _edit: STEŚ in Polish, see the next 2posts_).
Construction won't start before 2025, but more likely 2027.


----------



## sponge_bob

What is KP or STES+KP in that list.


----------



## Daniel749

^^
_STEŚ = Technical-economical-environmental study (= materials for the decision following environmental impact assessment (EIA decision/polish: DŚU/Decyzja o środowiskowych uwarunkowaniach)); 1st stage of project documentation
KP = Program concept including design and cost documentation (=materials for announcing the design&build-tender); 2nd stage of project documentation_


----------



## Chris80678




----------



## Chris80678

Video of S5 / DK5 from Poznan East interchange (A2 motorway) to Bydgoszcz Blonie interchange (passing by Gniezno, Żnin and Szubin)

Posted by @Superkot634 in the Polish forum






Includes some views of the construction of S5 from Szubin North interchange to Bydgoszcz Blonie interchange (due to open mid November 2021)


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## Nowax

*[S1] Żywiec - Zwardoń (SK)


























*











Photos by *Megass : [S/DK1] Żywiec - Zwardoń (SK)*


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## Chris80678

[S2/79] Południowa Obwodnica Warszawy


Wystarczy trochę zniwelować tą skarpę i służbowym da radę przejechać:)




www.skyscrapercity.com





A video of Southern Bridge over a frozen Vistula River on S2 Warsaw Southern Bypass

Video posted by @winkiel82

Bonus video of Ursynów Tunnel on S2 Warsaw Southern Bypass:


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## sponge_bob

Looks like that tunnel will not be ready for testing before autumn.


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## Chris80678

sponge_bob said:


> Looks like that tunnel will not be ready for testing before autumn.


Possibly not, who knows 🤔

Nice video of partially completed Lubelska interchange:


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## Chris80678

Link to photos of signage at Babigoszcz interchange on S3 from posted by @Tomi Li:









[S3] Świnoujście - Szczecin (Rzęśnica - z węzłem)


Ale co zmienili? Termin oddania odcinków na S3 to kwiecień 2021 - czyli, jak by nie patrzeć, II kwartał.




www.skyscrapercity.com





S3 (Miękowo-Brzozowo) is due to open in full in April 2021


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## Kemo

Here is a movie which resulted from my collaboration with *Rusonaldo*. It is about unfinished road projects in Poland.
There are rather decent English subtitles.
Enjoy.


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## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> Here is a movie which resulted from my collaboration with *Rusonaldo*. It is about unfinished road projects in Poland.
> There are rather decent English subtitles.
> Enjoy.


Yes, I watched this video on YouTube yesterday when it appeared in my subscription notifications. It is good


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## PovilD

Kemo said:


> Here is a movie which resulted from my collaboration with *Rusonaldo*. It is about unfinished road projects in Poland.
> There are rather decent English subtitles.
> Enjoy.


I even watch those videos in my language (Lithuanian), and they are nice! There are some translation errors, but personally, I don't bother, since I understand 90%+ what is said in subtitles.


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## Strzala

Winter/Summer comparision:

S19:






















A4:























__ https://www.facebook.com/gddkia/posts/4066217703430745


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## geogregor

Animals using motorway underpasses. For those who complain that they are not needed:

https://twitter.com/GDDKiA


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## yascoos

Here are some interesting facts and figures about the construction of animal passages. Also about what percentage of the total road construction costs are:






Przejścia dla zwierząt to kosztowny wydatek :: Generalna Dyrekcja Dróg Krajowych i Autostrad - Serwis informacyjny


Przejścia dla zwierząt to kosztowny wydatek - brak komunikatu o id: serwis_description




www.gddkia.gov.pl


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## ChrisZwolle

How many wildlife crossings are there in Poland? I mean those that span the motorway like a viaduct, not those underpasses or tubes for small wildlife. I did a count in 2014 and recorded 71 at that time. But many more have been constructed in the 7 years since...


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## Chris80678

Animal crossings are definitely needed whether they be full viaducts, underpasses or tunnels


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## Lombat

You may be interested in movies *Rusonaldo* made with my help.

The concept of the Road A/S50 is connected with the story of S10 expressway, section from Torun to Warsaw.


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## Chris80678

Some very good photos by GDDKIA of the exits on S3 Miękowo to Rzęśnica (mainly of Kliniska exit between Szczecin and Goleniów):


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1374076032744046606
Works on this stretch and between Miękowo and Brzozowo are due to be completely finished at the end of April


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## rakcancer

Lombat said:


> You may be interested in movies *Rusonaldo* made with my help.
> 
> The concept of the Road A/S50 is connected with the story of S10 expressway, section from Torun to Warsaw.


So, advantages of proposed variants of S10 closer to Plock are obvious. What are advantages of chosen S10 far away from Plock? Is there cost of design and construction that much lower to make sacrifice Plock and make it stays as is does now - in the middle of nowhere? Anyone knows what made GDDKiA go that way?


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## ChrisZwolle

That is the Wielki Kack interchange?


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## Luki_SL

^^Yes, it`s that interchange


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## PovilD

Nowax said:


>


Beautiful mountains ahead. Krakow is seems to be hidden between the horizon and those mountains 

I think this line where Carpathians/Sudetes and North European plains meet is my favorite part in Poland. After thousands of kilometers of plains, you finally see some mountains


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## Wolfiq

PovilD said:


> Beautiful mountains ahead. Krakow is seems to be hidden between the horizon and those mountains
> 
> I think this line where Carpathians/Sudetes and North European plains meet is my favorite part in Poland. After thousands of kilometers of plains, you finally see some mountains


South of Kraków the terrain and very high density makes linking S7 (and future S52) with A4 very challenging and potentially expensive. But, yes it's beautiful.


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## rakcancer

Few fresh shots from S1:
More here:





Drążymy cztery tunele na budowie S1 pomiędzy Milówką a Przybędzą :: Generalna Dyrekcja Dróg Krajowych i Autostrad - Serwis informacyjny


Drążymy cztery tunele na budowie S1 pomiędzy Milówką a Przybędzą - brak komunikatu o id: serwis_description




www.gddkia.gov.pl


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## The Wild Boy

It's crazy to think that Poland's capital was not connected with a proper motorway connection, and only got it's first motorway in 2010. Poland has come a long way, and has had a boom in construction of motorways and express roads since 2010.

By the way, how many KM of motorways / express roads are currently under construction? And how many of those U / C are planned to open this year?

Wikipedia says "construction of further 1,170 km of motorways and expressways (14% of the intended network) are ongoing."

Which if true, damn. I'm left speechless. That's just amazing. 

To think of Poland, as once a communist country, it has come a long way and has developed a lot.

Poland should be an example to other EU countries and governments...


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## dugiPL

Check Drogowy wątek statystyczny - Bez możliwości komentowania for a summary of road opening dates, over 1300km of new roads until 2026!😍
*







*


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## The Wild Boy




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## SRC_100

Moose passing under the S3 road:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1385514781642166279


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## bleetz

The Wild Boy said:


> It's crazy to think that Poland's capital was not connected with a proper motorway connection, and only got it's first motorway in 2010. Poland has come a long way, and has had a boom in construction of motorways and express roads since 2010.
> 
> By the way, how many KM of motorways / express roads are currently under construction? And how many of those U / C are planned to open this year?
> 
> Wikipedia says "construction of further 1,170 km of motorways and expressways (14% of the intended network) are ongoing."
> 
> Which if true, damn. I'm left speechless. That's just amazing.
> 
> To think of Poland, as once a communist country, it has come a long way and has developed a lot.
> 
> Poland should be an example to other EU countries and governments...


Yeah this Polish road building programme can sometimes seem like a miracle. I used to drive via Poland back in the day and man, to say the country has come a long way is an understatement. It is now a different country and I like the change a lot. Very very impressive on so many levels. Also, the amount of resources that such road building takes is pretty crazy. I am wondering what they’ll be able to do next after this insane road building ends and the resources are freed up. Those diverted resources will certainly push Poland higher up the value chain as Western Europe has done its road building after the war and this is a catch up game for Poland. I am certainly expecting good things from the place given this track record.


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## ChrisZwolle

The Polish motorway construction programme is quite similar to what Western Europe did in the 1960s and 1970s and Spain in 2000-2008. 

It's good to see that Poland did not neglect its national road system either, I remember those photos of deep-rutted national roads. That wasn't even that long ago (early 2000s). Almost all national roads are now in good to excellent condition. And they are improving it by constructing those 100 bypasses across the country. 

These new motorways have played an instrumental role in integrating the country's economy and society. It's not just about highway capacity, but also the ability to quickly and comfortably travel across the country. It's much more convenient to do business, go on recreation or do social visits now.


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## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's good to see that Poland did not neglect its national road system either, I remember those photos of deep-rutted national roads. That wasn't even that long ago (early 2000s).


Nostalgia 








Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.com





(this section was refurbished only last year)

This one too:








Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.com





But if you miss the "good old days" you can still find them in some places:








Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.com


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## SRC_100

Few words of comments on above too optimistic opinions imo:

in terms of A i S roads construction PL is just on half way, so much work left to do;
there has been made many mistakes during implementation of the programme/plan (A&S construction);
now is time to speed up railway investments, because they are carried out a way slower that road one;
on the end, miracles are in church, not in real life.


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## rakcancer

I have some very personal and subjective thoughts on this topic. I understand some people will disagree with me.
For me, looking at these especially last 10 years Poland made huge progress. Nevertheless there were some things that in my opinion could be done better. I understand that to speedup process of building new expressway network almost from scratch it was chosen to build most of S roads along old alignments of already existing roads. That, as I mentioned because of time and cost was wise choice in most cases. In some not. Especially S7 and S8 could be planned better in my opinion. If you look at the map, S7 between Warsaw and Gdansk almost entirely goes along old DK7. That means it doesn't serve almost 200K Olsztyn. Separately built S51 does on south bound towards Warsaw only. The argument for not building S7 closer to Olsztyn was as I heard difficult terrain. I was driving many times between Gdansk and Warsaw and Olsztyn. There are some harder to built terrains but it was definitely worth to put S7 closer to Olsztyn to make that city has very convenient connection to Gdansk and Warsaw and at the same time save money on not constructing S51. Another city is almost 50K Ciechanow. S7 could go easily close to DK50 and connect that town to S7. It didn't happen. S7 is in S shape in north but in wrong directions.
Another missed opportunity was S8 between Warsaw and Bialystok. It is maybe a bit more controversial but still in my opinion doable and makes lot of sense: S8 should go closer to 70K Lomza. In that case there would be no needs to build S61 between Lomza and Ostrow Mazowiecka. Instead there would be very good connection between Bialystok and Lomza - two biggest cities in Podlaskie Voivodeship. Also, on S8: The decision was made to connect Wroclaw with Lodz instead Piotrkow trybunalski. That was good choice however I don't understand why Kalisz and Ostrow Wielkopolski two cities with 200K together are not served by S8.
On A1, Plock could be served by A1 or at least be closer to it. Now this 130K important, industrial city is fighting to get access via planned S10. Unfortunately, it looks like again, for no reason other than cost this city will not be served by S10 conveniently. I just hope someone in GDDKiA will rethink their final decision.


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## The Wild Boy

bleetz said:


> I am wondering what they’ll be able to do next after this insane road building ends and the resources are freed up


Build more high speed railway lines???


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## rakcancer

hahaha, you are pushing an envelope... however there are plans to do so.


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## RipleyLV

Kemo said:


> Nostalgia


That is pretty much how the entire route from Budzisko to Świecko via DK8 and then DK2 looked like 20 years ago... But nothing beat the A4 _betonka_ near Wrocław...


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## geogregor

bleetz said:


> Yeah this Polish road building programme can sometimes seem like a miracle. I used to drive via Poland back in the day and man, to say the country has come a long way is an understatement. It is now a different country and I like the change a lot. Very very impressive on so many levels. Also, the amount of resources that such road building takes is pretty crazy. I am wondering what they’ll be able to do next after this insane road building ends and the *resources are freed up*. Those diverted resources will certainly push Poland higher up the value chain as Western Europe has done its road building after the war and this is a catch up game for Poland. I am certainly expecting good things from the place given this track record.


It is worth remembering that Poland got very generous funding for the infrastructure construction from the EU budget. This source will eventually dry up as Poland will be entitled to less funding in the future.

Poland made huge progress and I like it. However, I see worrying signs which might spoil the fun. Debt is piling, demography is not great (to say the least).

It is worth remembering than in a decade or so we will start spending much larger sums on maintaining this vast network as some of its older bits will be approaching 20-25 years since opening. 

For now let's enjoy the pace of the construction. It will not continue forever.


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## bleetz

RipleyLV said:


> That is pretty much how the entire route from Budzisko to Świecko via DK8 and then DK2 looked like 20 years ago... But nothing beat the A4 _betonka_ near Wrocław...


Those were the days  I used to occasionally cross Poland back then in my car. In the Warsaw-LT border section, I remember a common sight in front being a huge truck approaching fast in the middle of the road (because they were overtaking another truck or even a car) and me having to move out of the way last second to the hard shoulder (if you can call it that). Car behavior was even worse. I had quite a few actual near misses and cases where I had to break really hard. I still sometimes remember a couple thinking "I could've died that day". 

Sometimes on those roads, you would see a car overtaking another car going to the same direction as you, and the same happening from the opposite direction, so two cars from both directions going towards each other at a fairly large speed, it was insane. The situation would always resolve itself but only in the very last few seconds and it would never cease to amaze me. I drove through those roads a few times at night with poor visibility and I was genuinely happy to arrive home/my destination alive, like I came back from a war or something 

If you were to drive at the legal limit on those roads back then, people would start flashing their lights behind you (even trucks, especially in towns). From Warsaw westwards (on the A2), you had lots of towns where the speed limit was 50 so the speed limit was changing between 90 (I think) and 50 all the time. Nobody was sticking to the speed limit and the speed was constant (90-110 km/h or so) on the road. Then, in one town out of dozens, you'll have the police that will pull you up and fine you. They were actually always nice and polite and spoke good English (even reduced my fine for cooperating), but the fines were obviously unfair because it was, in practice, impossible to stick to the speed limit as the pressure to exceed it from other road users was huge.

To be fair, it was like this all the way to Kaunas for me. The Lithuanian section Polish border-Kaunas (esp. from Marijampole) was known as 'the road of death' up until very recently and the situation was exactly the same as in most of Poland in those days. The rest of Lithuania was better because it inherited a much better road network from the Soviet days. A lot of the worst behaving cars in those areas in Northern Poland had Lithuanian number plates too so it wasn't about mentality but about available infrastructure. Now, Lithuanian 'motorways' look like a bit of a joke compared to the Polish stuff unfortunately. I drove to Poland two years ago via the new section north of Marijampole, which in Lithuania qualifies as a motorway. I think it would just about qualify as a Polish expressway (but only just), the signage was not as good though and the asphalt was not as even. So, yeah, Lithuania is now behind Poland (and falling) but it is great news for everyone here anyway as all roads to Western Europe go via Poland of course, and Poland itself is now far more accessible for tourism.


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## bleetz

geogregor said:


> It is worth remembering that Poland got very generous funding for the infrastructure construction from the EU budget. This source will eventually dry up as Poland will be entitled to less funding in the future.
> 
> Poland made huge progress and I like it. However, I see worrying signs which might spoil the fun. Debt is piling, demography is not great (to say the least).
> 
> It is worth remembering than in a decade or so we will start spending much larger sums on maintaining this vast network as some of its older bits will be approaching 20-25 years since opening.
> 
> For now let's enjoy the pace of the construction. It will not continue forever.


The way I see it is that maintenance and loan costs will be far more than covered from efficiency increases in the overall economy that a good road network brings, so the network will be paying for its own maintenance (and some), while not having such a large number of people employed in building something that everyone else already has will be a big move up the value chain. The big airport, rail, urban transport, etc. - few countries can afford to play those games well and, call me optimistic, but Poland will be one of them I believe.

Is demographics still bad in Poland, even with all the immigration from the east?


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## Puritan

PovilD said:


> I think this line where Carpathians*/Sudetes* and North European plains meet is my favorite part in Poland. After thousands of kilometers of plains, you finally see some mountains


S3 Kamienna Góra - Lubawka:




























source and more photos:





S3 Legnica (A4) - Lubawka zadanie IV


Zaprojektowanie i wybudowanie drogi S3 Legnica (A4) - Lubawka zadanie IV od węzła Kamienna Góra Północ (z węzłem) do granicy państwa, o długości ok. 15,3 km



s3-kamiennagora-granicapanstwa.pl


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## Wolfiq

bleetz said:


> The way I see it is that maintenance and loan costs will be far more than covered from efficiency increases in the overall economy that a good road network brings, so the network will be paying for its own maintenance (and some), while not having such a large number of people employed in building something that everyone else already has will be a big move up the value chain. The big airport, rail, urban transport, etc. - few countries can afford to play those games well and, call me optimistic, but Poland will be one of them I believe.
> 
> Is demographics still bad in Poland, even with all the immigration from the east?


We will know more soon. There is census right now. The data we have show birth rate is slowing down. In a long run the outlook isn't very good. That probably won't affect still increasing mobility for few decades due to GDP growth. 

Of course most of prognosis show what is going to happen if we don't do anything about it. We can still change it. That's important because many people see these prognosis as something that is definitely going to happen. That's certainly not true.


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## sponge_bob

bleetz said:


> The way I see it is that maintenance and loan costs will be far more than covered from efficiency increases in the overall economy that a good road network brings, so the network will be paying for its own maintenance (and some)


Polish Debt/GDP is not serious. Are new roads not built from normal taxes/eu rather than from debt at present.


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## ChrisZwolle

geogregor said:


> It is worth remembering than in a decade or so we will start spending much larger sums on maintaining this vast network as some of its older bits will be approaching 20-25 years since opening.


Advanced economies spend relatively little on road maintenance. The Dutch road network is one of the best maintained in the world but expenditures as a percentage of total government spending are trivial (less than 1%). Social and healthcare spending eclipses all other spending in advanced economies, especially once they make the demographic transition to an aging population. 

The Dutch coronavirus expenditures and lost revenue in one year is greater than all motorway spending over the past 40 years combined.


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## sponge_bob

One other factor for future road building in Poland is that the Ten-T Core Road Network will be largely complete at end 2023 when the current budget window finally ends. There is relatively little left to do of the Ten-T core after that (A1 A2 A4 S3 and S61) so that EU funding window is largely shut after 2023. There is a Ten-T comprehensive network on top of that but Brussels will never finish that by 2050 like they still say they will. 

The funding window that remains open in this decade is for 'cohesion' which is most of Poland but IIRC only 60% of cohesion funds used in road transport will be for actual roads after 2023 and the remainder will be for stuff like EV infrastructure and bus and truck parks rather than new road builds. So starting January 2024 there will be a large drop in EU funding for roads every year and getting your hands on that could be more difficult unless you add some greenwash to the project. 

So if the government gets €1bn for roads from Brussels today...annually....will it pony up that €1bn from its own resources from 2024 to make up the gap???


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## Sponsor

A2 motorway near Sługocin around 1990. Note the board with destinations. It signals the nearest exit just like nowadays experimental signage.


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## sponge_bob

Even the Ten-T core emphasis has shifted. There was a transport agency in Brussels followed by INEA after broadband was added to rail and road planning. Now look at the crap that has replaced INEA in Brussels only this month.  

This is the new agency in charge of funding Europes major roads (the Ten-T Core portion) 









European Climate, Infrastructure and Environment Executive Agency


CINEA has been set-up to manage several EU programmes in the fields of energy, environment, climate action, and transport




cinea.ec.europa.eu


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## Theijs

sponge_bob said:


> Even the Ten-T core emphasis has shifted. There was a transport agency in Brussels followed by INEA after broadband was added to rail and road planning. Now look at the crap that has replaced INEA in Brussels only this month.
> 
> This is the new agency in charge of funding Europes major roads (the Ten-T Core portion)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> European Climate, Infrastructure and Environment Executive Agency
> 
> 
> CINEA has been set-up to manage several EU programmes in the fields of energy, environment, climate action, and transport
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cinea.ec.europa.eu


Why did INEA suddenly became crap? Because the EU-memberstates decided together to broaden the scope of funds and the staff of this agency to cary it out?


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## sponge_bob

Theijs said:


> Why did INEA suddenly became crap? Because the EU-memberstates decided together to broaden the scope of funds and the staff of this agency to cary it out?


This was the TEN-T agency as recently as 2015 or so. Then it became INEA. Now the greenwash thing that replaced INEA this month is so crap that you have to scroll past reams of greenwash before you find any mention of Transport on its webpage. 

I don't think we will have any idea exactly what the EU will fund via Cohesion/Regional policy until late this year. I don't know if Poland planned on spending any of the Recovery funds on roads by the way.


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## ChrisZwolle

It's the French disease or something:





__





Ministères Écologie Énergie Territoires


Bienvenue sur le site des ministères Écologie Énergie Territoires : actualités, presse, organisation et politiques publiques !




www.ecologie.gouv.fr





The ministry of 'ecological transition and solidarity' also happens to be in charge of road infrastructure, which - despite making up the vast majority of mobility in France - is relegated to some irrelevant corner of the ministry.

These bureaucrats and politicians often lack any awareness of how the real world works. In the real world, almost all travel is by road, typically 80-90% across the European Union.


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## Kemo

Well, apparently you should not travel at all because it is bad for the planet. #stayhome


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## geogregor

Tunneling under Świna


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## Strzala

*Via Carpatia - S19*

Section Lublin - Strzeszkowice:






Janów Lubelski bypass is almost ready for traffic:


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## SRC_100

*Officially, another 42 km of the DK3 road available for drivers in north-west Poland.*

A new section of road no. 3 (22.4 km long) was built between Brzozowo & Miękowo. On the other hand, the section of this road b/n Miękowo & Rzęśnica has been rebuilt to modern parameters.









Total length of modernized sections of road no. 3 is cca. 402 km of 480 km in total.


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## ChrisZwolle

What is the status of S3 between Polkowice and Lubin? According to http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/ it won't open until October? I've seen photos of it earlier where it appeared close to completion.


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## Kirt93

@ChrisZwolle The deadline was extended further because after the works were resumed it turned out that a lot - like *truly a lot* (*) - of what Salini Impregilo / Webuild "did" before being ejected was faulty. So while some objects might look more or less finished on the photos (but also many others do not), there are still works being performed there to correct Salini's errors.

(*) To give some feel of the issue, here's the list (not sure if comprehensive) of objects constructed by Salini which turned out to be faulty. Prefixes are not important (they describe that it's e.g. an object within the main route or a bridges above it), consecutive numbers refer to consecutive objects on the section:
WA-01, WA-02, PE-08, PE-09, PE-10, PE-10ABC, PE-11, PE-12, PE-11B, PE-12B, WD-25A, WD-25B, WD-25C, WD-26, WD-27, WD-28, WD-29, WD-29A, WD-30, WD-32


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## geogregor

Kirt93 said:


> @ChrisZwolle The deadline was extended further because after the works were resumed it turned out that a lot - like *truly a lot* (*) - of what Salini Impregilo / Webuild "did" before being ejected was faulty. So while some objects might look more or less finished on the photos (but also many others do not), there are still works being performed there to correct Salini's errors.
> 
> (*) To give some feel of the issue, here's the list (not sure if comprehensive) of objects constructed by Salini which turned out to be faulty. Prefixes are not important (they describe that it's e.g. an object within the main route or a bridges above it), consecutive numbers refer to consecutive objects on the section:
> WA-01, WA-02, PE-08, PE-09, PE-10, PE-10ABC, PE-11, PE-12, PE-11B, PE-12B, WD-25A, WD-25B, WD-25C, WD-26, WD-27, WD-28, WD-29, WD-29A, WD-30, WD-32



Do those structures have to rebuilt from scratch or can they be "corrected" without major demolitions?


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## Kirt93

Some fragments of main road's layers (protection - these are coppermining areas) needed to be rebuilt, on one of the objects the retaining wall will need to be demolished and rebuilt from scratch, majority of the issues can be corrected.

One can only wonder, though, how it would unfold if Salini indeed finished this construction "fast" enough not to have been ejected after all.


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## Kemo

Kirt93 said:


> Some fragments of main road's layers (protection - these are *coalmining* areas) needed to be rebuilt


Copper mining.


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## ChrisZwolle

Kirt93 said:


> @ChrisZwolle The deadline was extended further because after the works were resumed it turned out that a lot - like *truly a lot* (*) - of what Salini Impregilo / Webuild "did" before being ejected was faulty. So while some objects might look more or less finished on the photos (but also many others do not), there are still works being performed there to correct Salini's errors.


Wow that's terrible. Do we have some examples of what kind of faulty work they did?

Italian construction companies are hugely incompetent abroad. There is hardly any Italian construction company with a good track record in Central/Eastern Europe. There are also some Italian construction companies that focused on the former USSR (including Central Asia) that are now making moves towards the Eastern EU. I don't have any trust in construction companies that make most of their revenue in countries with rampant corruption.


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## Kemo

Construction of S7 just south of Warsaw



flyingoko said:


> Widok w kierunek Węzła Lotnisko, obiektyw telefoto


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## PovilD

Sponsor said:


> A1 Piotrków Trybunalski - Kamieńsk
> 🤦‍♀️


Also resembles flag of Brazil, or my favorite color combination (green-yellow) in my country flag. It might be me, but I like combinations of blue-yellow (like Ukraine or Sweden flag), and green-yellow (Brazil, Jamaica, African part of Lithuanian flag).

As for this bridge and outdoor infrastructure in general, then yeah, maybe bright colors just look cheap, like our children playgrounds (it is said by some in my country that bright colored playgrounds are Soviet legacy of mentality):









Btw I remember discussions in my country infrastructure forum about this new bridge that it looks bad, like maybe roofs of worse Post-Soviet villages:









I honestly don't have an opinion about this bridge. I feel happy that there is overpass in general


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## POLAMCO

Ugh, you're all right, disabled people don't exist...


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## Wolfiq

SRC_100 said:


> 🔼🔼
> The problem is it's awful.. I mean shape, colours and functionality.
> I`m convinced it should be simpler, nicer, more functionare and less colorful, and the most probably cheaper... but we got fucking Byzantium


What's wrong with the functionality?


----------



## Sponsor

Wolfiq said:


> What's wrong with the functionality?


It makes path for disabled (what an irony) like at least 5x longer. Plus it's too massive and so, interfering with landscape aggressively. Especially with those colors. Engineering objects should blend into.


----------



## Wolfiq

Sponsor said:


> It makes path for disabled (what an irony) like at least 5x longer. Plus it's too massive and so, interfering with landscape aggressively. Especially with those colors. Engineering objects should blend into.


How does it make it 5x times longer? You cannot make it more steep so the only extra distance are you those flat turns and I'm not sure but even straight ramps have such a flat parts. In fact such a straight ramps can also make path much longer when you approach them from the _wrong_ side.









Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




maps.app.goo.gl





Colours aside when it comes to infrastructure I would always take function over form.


----------



## Sponsor

Wolfiq said:


> How does it make it 5x times longer?


Because it doesn't use the original path at all. It goes off, climbs a few meters up at once from both sides. Wouldn't be that long if at least some of the path was used to climb at the same time.

I wonder why not underpass? Difference between grades would be smaller and it wouldn't mind obstacles like power lines.


----------



## Wolfiq

Sponsor said:


> Because it doesn't use the original path at all. It goes off, climbs a few meters up at once from both sides.
> 
> I wonder why not underpass? Difference between grades would be smaller and it wouldn't mind obstacles like power lines.


I don't understand. If you made it straight, it would still be very slimilar in length. These turns certainly don't make it that long. Nowhere near five times longer. Not even close.


----------



## yascoos

JCh! The maximum slope of the ramp for disabled people cannot be greater than 6%. The rest is just trigonometry. How difficult is it to check or understand?


----------



## Sponsor

Wolfiq said:


> I don't understand. If you made it straight, it would still be very slimilar in length.


Are you sure?








I said "like" which means I don't calculate it with numbers. I don't mean the very "five" times. I mean just much longer.

I realize it's not easy to fit it within the same low cost. Maybe sometimes it's better to spend more money instead of making something like this. Totally unfriendly for disabled people and cyclists.


----------



## SRC_100

Much simpler and the most probably cheaper solution is just some kind of lift, enough big lift to take also bike(s).


----------



## Wolfiq

Sponsor said:


> Are you sure?
> View attachment 1461430
> 
> I said "like" which means I don't calculate it with numbers. I don't mean the very "five" times. I mean just much longer.


Is that for real? You completely don't understand how ramp is being designed.










The only extra distance are those red lines. Steepness is fixed value. In fact it's probably less than that because there are often flat parts on ramps anyway.

Also if you make it straight you ca make it longer when you approach it from some directions.


----------



## Reivajar

It depends on particular building codes, but usually you need to allocate flat resting areas on ramps (as well for safety measures). There are length limits for ramps, so you need to break them down into smaller sections. Hence, for instance a continuous spiral ramp may not fill most likely accesibility guidelines in most of the places (as well, a non-straight horizontal alignment is not considered accesiblle either in many building codes).


----------



## Sponsor

Wolfiq said:


> Is that for real? You completely don't understand how ramp is being designed.


I think you don't get my point. Your red lines follow demanded direction so they are not the ones making it longer. Any path perpendicular to the direction we want to follow makes it longer. 



Wolfiq said:


> Also if you make it straight you ca make it longer when you approach it from some directions.


Who would approach it from other directions here? 








Barely nobody would go along the motorway. People would most likely go from one part of village to another. In some case scenario first 2 or 3 houses on the right would be missed but that's all. And maybe even not if there was an underpass.

Besides I never said about straight overpass. I realize there is little space for that - there are buildings on one side and power line on another. 
That's why I'm all for an underpass.


----------



## Reivajar

Sponsor said:


> I think you don't get my point. Your red lines follow demanded direction so they are not the ones making it longer. Any path perpendicular to the direction we want to follow makes it longer.
> 
> 
> Who would approach it from other directions here?
> View attachment 1461538
> 
> Barely nobody would go along the motorway. People would most likely go from one part of village to another. In some case scenario first 2 or 3 houses on the right would be missed but that's all. And maybe even not if there was an underpass.
> 
> Besides I never said about straight overpass. I realize there is little space for that - there are buildings on one side and power line on another.
> That's why I'm all for an underpass.


I would have prefered a more "linear" setting. I agree (if I understand you correctly). However, I bet that it would be more problematic regarding adjacent properties and rights-of-way in the existing roads/paths.


----------



## Wolfiq

Sponsor said:


> I think you don't get my point. Your red lines follow demanded direction so they are not the ones making it longer. Any path perpendicular to the direction we want to follow makes it longer.
> 
> 
> Who would approach it from other directions here?
> View attachment 1461538
> 
> Barely nobody would go along the motorway. People would most likely go from one part of village to another. In some case scenario first 2 or 3 houses on the right would be missed but that's all. And maybe even not if there was an underpass.
> 
> Besides I never said about straight overpass. I realize there is little space for that - there are buildings on one side and power line on another.
> That's why I'm all for an underpass.


You should admit that you are just concerned about ascetics, because the ramp is perfectly fine and almost certainly cheaper than tunnel.


----------



## Sponsor

Wolfiq said:


> You should admit that you are just concerned about ascetics


I already did. 
And I'm still concerned about the form.



Wolfiq said:


> because the ramp is perfectly fine and almost certainly cheaper than tunnel.


It's only fine for a healthy pedestrian. Not for disabled, nor cyclists. 
A ferry going across river is also fine. Does it mean we shouldn't build bridges?


----------



## Strzala

S17/A2 Junction Lubelska



bronco10 said:


>


----------



## Wolfiq

Sponsor said:


> I already did.
> And I'm still concerned about the form.
> 
> 
> It's only fine for a healthy pedestrian. Not for disabled, nor cyclists.
> A ferry going across river is also fine. Does it mean we shouldn't build bridges?


It's best possible design. I looked it up and every 9 meters there must be at least 1,4 m long resting area. The turns as someone suggested might also be by design, to slow down everyone, although this isn't written in the law unless I missed something.


----------



## Sponsor

Wolfiq said:


> It's best possible design. I looked it up and every 9 meters there must be at least 1,4 m long resting area. The turns as someone suggested might also be by design, to slow down everyone, although this isn't written in the law unless I missed something.


It's the best possible design meeting given conditions - little space, low cost, minimum functionality. But probably not the only one possible overall.

There are no problems in construction. There are costs. Still I doubt that an underpass would be so much more expensive than this massive structure.


----------



## McKowski

SRC_100 said:


> *source*
> 
> Toto`s the section b/n Łomża West and Kolno junctions marked with blue:
> View attachment 1498836


You can see that even on Google maps, where the Italian job started and ended. Drivers will bypass this gap by going trough Łomża using DW677 and DK63, people living next to DW677 will be very "happy" for the next 2-3 years...

Or maybe the last exit will be connected with DK61 in Jarnuty, when coming from the south?


----------



## Kirt93

dugiPL said:


> Check Drogowy wątek statystyczny - Bez możliwości komentowania for a summary of road opening dates, over 1300km of new roads until 2026!😍


At that 1300 is only the contracts (including Design&Build ones) which are signed already. Not all of the plans will succeed of course, but I think it's reasonable to expect about 1500 km of highway openings in 2021 – 2025.



The Wild Boy said:


> Poland has come a long way, and has had a boom in construction of motorways and express roads since 2010.


Yep, there are quite several routes where truly driving at the end of 2010 vs driving today is a totally different experience altogether.  A quick summary of the routes which benefited the most (I mean, those using them benefited the most) from the openings in this decade:


*S8 + A8,* the originally planned route Wrocław – Białystok (excluding the Kłodzko extension added to the plans in 2019):

10.3% (58 km) opened 1998 – 2010
*89.7% *(503 km) opened 2011 – 2019

*A4 section Kraków-South – PL/UA border:*

11.1% (28 km) opened 2003 & 2009
*88.9% *(224 km) opened 2012 – 2016
100% (417 km) of A4 section PL/DE border – Kraków-South has been opened in 1983 (1936) – 2009

*S5,* the originally planned route Grudziądz – Wrocław (excluding the Ostróda and Bolków extensions added to the plans in 2015 & 2019):

3.2% (single carriageway, 22 km) opened 1998 – 2006
*82.5% *(276 km + 8 km 2nd carriageway) opened 2012 – 2020
14.3% (42 km + 13 km 2nd carriageway) under construction

*A1*:

3% (17 km) opened 1989
20.3% (115 km) opened 2007 – 2010
*70.8% *(371 km + 61 km first carriageway in a 2+2 profile) opened 2011 – 2020
8.9% (20 km + 61 km second carriageway) under construction
Note: The section constructed in the 1980s is under "reconstruction" now, which is in fact a construction from scratch in place of the old one. This fragment has been accounted twice, for a total length of 103%.


*S3*:

4.4% (20 km) opened 1979, substandard (at-grade intersections, a pedestrian crossing)
6.9% (single carriageway, 63 km) opened 1995 – 2008
*67.6% *(276 km + 63 km 2nd carriageway) opened 2010(!) – 2020 (additionally, the substandard section was upgraded)
21.1% (96 km) under construction / design-build (including the fragment already opened in 2021)

*S7*:

19.4% (110 km + 28 km single carriageway) opened 1984 – 2010
*53%* (343 km + 28 km 2nd carriageway) opened 2011 – 2020
21.6% (146 km) under construction / design-build / tender
7% (47 km) planned (Note: in all of the "planned" category and in circa half of the "under construction / (...)" category, the old DK7 is already a dual-carriageway road.)

*S17 *(including the joint section of S12 & S17):

5.2% (17 km) opened 2004 – 2007
*50.5%* (163 km) opened 2013 – 2020
4% (13 km) under construction
40.3% (130 km) planned

*A2 + S2*:

38.7% (253 km) opened 1985 – 2010
*40.3%* (263 km) opened 2011 – 2013 & 2020
16.1% (105) under construction / design-build
4.9% (32 km) planned

For anyone driving those routes, this decade has truly changed a lot indeed 


*Whole network:*
(one carriageway opening = 50% of length)

*18.3%* (1503 km) opened 1977 (1936) – 2010
*33.8%* (2780 km) opened 2011 – 2020
*16.8%* (1376 km) under construction / design-build / tender
*31.1% *(2559 km) planned



The Wild Boy said:


> It's crazy to think that Poland's capital was not connected with a proper motorway connection, and only got it's first motorway in 2010.


Even later, actually: Warsaw got connected to the network as late as 2012 (one day before the opening ceremony of Euro 2012 championship hosted by PL and UA).


----------



## Chris80678

A remarkable achievement indeed 👏

Long way to go yet for Poland


----------



## Strzala

Via Carpatia S19 Lublin - Rzeszów:

Photos from @Morius




























Photos from GDDKiA:


----------



## Chris80678

The 7 km (4 mile) long Janów Lubelski S19 bypass is to open next month (June 2021)

The article below proves this scheduled road opening:





__





Wyborcza.pl







lublin.wyborcza.pl





Meanwhile, today (17.05.21) the second carriageway of the S1 expressway between the interchange with A1 motorway at Pyrzowice and the Podwarpie interchange with DK91 and DK86 opened to traffic

The length of this stretch of road is 10 km (6 miles)

The article below proves this opening:









Na S1 Pyrzowice – Podwarpie od dziś dwiema jezdniami


Od dziś kierowcy będą mogli korzystać z blisko 10-kilometrowej nowo wybudowanej jezdni drogi ekspresowej S1 na odcinku Pyrzowice – Podwarpie. Do ruchu zostaje oddany także węzeł Mierzęcice.




www.rynekinfrastruktury.pl


----------



## Kemo

Driving video from the recently opened section of S1 motorway. (Second carriageway has been built)



majk187 said:


> Załączam filmik z dzisiejszego przejazdu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jadąc Podwarpie-Pyrzowice dziwne uczucie, wyprzedzać cały czas na podwójnej ciągłej.


----------



## Wolfiq

Long overdue. It was probably the most deadly road in the region. All main roads leading to it were dual carriageways and many people died, because they thought it's still dual carriageway.


----------



## Sponsor

Another foreign name according to the new standard


----------



## Chris80678

Sponsor said:


> Another foreign name according to the new standard


At least Berlin doesn't need translating!

(Same in German and in Polish)

Prague (Praga in Polish, Praha in Czech) on a sign on S3 at Polkowice (under construction):


----------



## Chris80678

Finally, Bydgoszcz West interchange slip roads from S5 onto DK10 in direction of Szczecin 

Official article from Rynek Infrastruktury:









Węzeł Bydgoszcz Zachód na S5 kompletny. Łącznice otwarte


Kierowcy mogą już korzystać z łącznic w miejscowości Pawłówek w obrębie węzła Bydgoszcz Zachód w ciągu drogi ekspresowej S5. To odcinek ekspresowej piątki stanowiący część obwodnicy Bydgoszczy.




www.rynekinfrastruktury.pl


----------



## gstark0

What's the status of S50 ring around Warsaw?


----------



## Lombat

Nihil Novi - no funding for STEŚ yet.
I asked GDDKiA on Twitter about that, no answer.


Lombat said:


> Those are new ideas, in early planning stage.
> At this moment there is no funding for _technical-economical-enviromental study_ (stage before enviromental decision, _edit: STEŚ in Polish, see the next 2posts_).
> Construction won't start before 2025, but more likely 2027.





Daniel749 said:


> ^^
> _STEŚ = Technical-economical-environmental study (= materials for the decision following environmental impact assessment (EIA decision/polish: DŚU/Decyzja o środowiskowych uwarunkowaniach)); 1st stage of project documentation
> KP = Program concept including design and cost documentation (=materials for announcing the design&build-tender); 2nd stage of project documentation_


----------



## Strzala

Via Carpatia 

S19 Lublin - Niedrzwica Duża:






S19 Niedrzwica Duża - Kraśnik:






S19 Kraśnik bypass:


----------



## Chris80678

A short video of Ursynów Tunnel, Ursynów East and Ursynów West interchanges. Video posted by @Toye in the Polish forum:















Here is a link to recent photos of the completed surfaced connection to current terminus of S2 at Puławska interchange posted by @fe91:









[S2/79] Południowa Obwodnica Warszawy


A na Rosoła pusto, deszczu nie ma, ale byłem uprzejmy i jakąś ciężarówkę budowlaną puściłem.




www.skyscrapercity.com


----------



## SRC_100

Interesting graphic presenting the construction progress of the tunnel under the Świna River in Świnoujście (DK93).
So, 485 m completed, 1000 m left to be completed.

*green *- completed section of the tunnel
*red *- the tunnel section to be completed

On left is is Uznam island where main part of *Świnoujście *town is placed, on the right is Wolin island which is connected with main part of PL by bridges and where port of *Świnoujście *is placed.
Btw, *Uznam (Usedom)* Island is divided between PL & DE, where german part take cca. 70-80% part of the Island - total 445 km² , in PL 72 km².

And the border on Uznam island next to the beach:


----------



## Nowax

[S7] Lubien - Rabka section































































































































Source : S7 Lubień - Rabka-Zdrój


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The nighttime speed limit in city limits has been reduced from 60 to 50 km/h. Poland was the only EU country with such a 60 km/h limit, which only applied from 23-5h. 

In the past, almost all of central & eastern Europe had a 60 km/h urban speed limit. 



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399633060824600576


----------



## Jaromir

I do not believe trucks > 3,5 t drive 80 km/h on highways 



ChrisZwolle said:


> The nighttime speed limit in city limits has been reduced from 60 to 50 km/h. Poland was the only EU country with such a 60 km/h limit, which only applied from 23-5h.
> 
> In the past, almost all of central & eastern Europe had a 60 km/h urban speed limit.
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1399633060824600576


----------



## Kemo

They drive ~90 km/h everywhere... well, maybe they slow down to ~70 in built-up areas.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

So, it's June 2021. How likely is it for the Ursynów Tunnel of S2 in Warsaw to open this month?


----------



## rav00

It's not. I'd be surprised if anything happened before September.


----------



## Wrocl'awianin

ChrisZwolle said:


> So, it's June 2021. How likely is it for the Ursynów Tunnel of S2 in Warsaw to open this month?


It's quite a controversial question 🤭


----------



## PovilD

Sponsor said:


> Another foreign name according to the new standard


According to Polish exit signage, my house should be somewhere past the exit 27 

Exit 20 will be closest junction in Lithuania with exit number. Interestingly first quasi-exit junction system in the region was implemented in Kaliningrad Oblast of Russia. All three Baltic States still doesn't have any resemblance of exit system. Lithuania could be first one to implement since we are only Baltic state with motorways, but Estonia could end up being more innovative and be first instead (as they have some sort of dual carriegeway system with grade seperated junctions).


----------



## Sponsor

PovilD said:


> According to Polish exit signage, my house should be somewhere past the exit 27
> 
> Exit 20 will be closest junction in Lithuania with exit number. Interestingly first quasi-exit junction system in the region was implemented in Kaliningrad Oblast of Russia. All three Baltic States still doesn't have any resemblance of exit system. Lithuania could be first one to implement since we are only Baltic state with motorways, but Estonia could end up being more innovative and be first instead (as they have some sort of dual carriegeway system with grade seperated junctions).


Just don't make a mess with 'junction' and 'exit' symbols


----------



## sponge_bob

Sponsor said:


> Just don't make a mess with 'junction' and 'exit' symbols


A junction may not be an exit you know.


----------



## rakcancer

"Interesting" how things are developing recently in polish road construction market. Todini Central Asia - company based in Kazakhstan (with collaboration with local polish company) won contract for design and build of last section of S6 between Slupsk and Gdansk. Section is 16km long. Does anyone know that company being involved in any other road projects in EU?
Source:





Najkorzystniejsza oferta na ostatni odcinek S6 w woj. pomorskim :: Generalna Dyrekcja Dróg Krajowych i Autostrad - Serwis informacyjny


Najkorzystniejsza oferta na ostatni odcinek S6 w woj. pomorskim - brak komunikatu o id: serwis_description




www.gddkia.gov.pl


----------



## geogregor

rakcancer said:


> "Interesting"


It definitely sounds "interesting". But then, they can't be worse than the Italians. Surely...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Todini is an Italian construction company, which gets most of their revenue in the former USSR (mostly Central Asia & Caucasus), plus some works in North Africa and the Middle East. They don't list any project in the EU outside of Italy. 

We'll have to wait and see how this goes. But I'm not very optimistic, this is a company that gets almost all their revenue in countries with systemic corruption. There must be a reason for a company to expand into countries like that and not in the EU.


----------



## bartek76

Another Italian job


----------



## sponge_bob

geogregor said:


> they can't be worse than the Italians. Surely...


Italians hidden behind a Kazakhstani flag of convenience???


----------



## geogregor

sponge_bob said:


> Italians hidden behind a Kazakhstani flag of convenience???


I wonder when will we se contractors from Panama, Bahamas or Liberia


----------



## bartek76

Salini or Astaldi Libertadores? 

Is there a pattern: Italian building companies take on contracts in Eastern EU without proper planning, prepartion etc and the business model is based on bribing whoever required when inevitable problems arise, and then shockingly they discover that Eastern EU is not as corrupt at it was supposed to be?


----------



## rakcancer

bartek76 said:


> Salini or Astaldi Libertadores?
> 
> Is there a pattern: Italian building companies take on contracts in Eastern EU without proper planning, prepartion etc and the business model is based on bribing whoever required when inevitable problems arise, and then shockingly they discover that Eastern EU is not as corrupt at it was supposed to be?


Yet that happened so many times already. They never learn...


----------



## SRC_100

rakcancer said:


> "Interesting" how things are developing recently in polish road construction market. Todini Central Asia - company based in Kazakhstan (with collaboration with local polish company) won contract for design and build of last section of S6 between Slupsk and Gdansk. Section is 16km long. Does anyone know that company being involved in any other road projects in EU?
> Source:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Najkorzystniejsza oferta na ostatni odcinek S6 w woj. pomorskim :: Generalna Dyrekcja Dróg Krajowych i Autostrad - Serwis informacyjny
> 
> 
> Najkorzystniejsza oferta na ostatni odcinek S6 w woj. pomorskim - brak komunikatu o id: serwis_description
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gddkia.gov.pl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 1613708


Todini didn`t win the tender, but consortium of 3 companies, where NDI S.A. is a lider, and NDI Sopot & Todini are partners. NDI is polish company with quite big experiance on construction market, both on infrastructure and cubature investments. I`ve had opportunities to work/cooperate twice with NDI and have no any serious complaince. We don`t know the role of Todini company in this consortium but I supposed to that NDI needed just references of Todini company and Todini role in the whole investment is gonna be marginal.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

bartek76 said:


> Is there a pattern: Italian building companies take on contracts in Eastern EU without proper planning, prepartion etc and the business model is based on bribing whoever required when inevitable problems arise, and then shockingly they discover that Eastern EU is not as corrupt at it was supposed to be?


Yes, they seem to think they can get away with starting no work, not paying subcontractors, rack up huge delays, deliver substandard work, etc. I don't understand why this happens so often with Italian construction companies. It's always possible that a construction company might run into insolvency, but it's not clear why virtually all Italian companies perform like this.

It seems like the first Chinese job in Poland had this attitude as well. Maybe that's how they roll in Africa. Chinese motorway projects are often behind schedule in Africa.


----------



## rakcancer

SRC_100 said:


> Todini didn`t win the tender, but consortium of 3 companies, where NDI S.A. is a lider, and NDI Sopot & Todini are partners. NDI is polish company with quite big experiance on construction market, both on infrastructure and cubature investments. I`ve had opportunities to work/cooperate twice with NDI and have no any serious complaince. We don`t know the role of Todini company in this consortium but I supposed to that NDI needed just references of Todini company and Todini role in the whole investment is gonna be marginal.


Good to know that. Hopefully cooperation with good polish company will guarantee better outcome.


----------



## Kemo

Via Carpatia, section Janów Lubelski - Łążek Ordynacki opens to traffic


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kemo said:


> Via Carpatia, section Janów Lubelski - Łążek Ordynacki opens to traffic


Is there a source for this? I came across a GDDKiA press release link, but that one doesn't work anymore: https://www.gddkia.gov.pl/pl/a/4151...udowanej-S19-Kierowcy-pojada-dwiema-jezdniami


----------



## Lombat

I saw this information of GDDKiA's FB or Twitter in the morning, they have probably delete it.

This is not official, but it is something:








Ważna informacja dla kierowców. Dziś wprowadzona została tymczasowa organizacja ruchu na budowanej S19


W poniedziałek wprowadzona została tymczasowa organizacja ruchu na budowanej S19, na odcinku między węzłem Janów Lubelski Południe a węzłem Lasy Janowskie.




www.lublin112.pl






> Wprowadzenie organizacji ruchu polega na przełożeniu ruchu z DK19 na nowo wybudowane jezdnie S19. Kierowcy mają obecnie do dyspozycji dwie jezdnie drogi S19, po dwa pasy ruchu w każdym kierunku.


_~Traffic was moved from old road to the new S19, two roadways, two lanes in each direction._


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Lombat said:


> This is not official, but it is something:


Maybe they copied the information from the now-deleted GDDKiA press release? That's how most of the media works nowadays. 

It would be great to have an official press release or footage (photo / video) showing traffic on the new motorway.


----------



## Kemo

This section is kind of in the middle of nowhere, hence the lack of media attention.
But several local forumers have confirmed that it is opened.


----------



## Lombat

Now it is oficial.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1404720321576460290


----------



## sponge_bob

I am_ somehow _left with an impression that the pipeline is starting to empty in Poland, that since around mid 2019 relatively few new environmental decisions have been made and relatively little tenders have issued for those permitted sections compared to the level of activity in 2017/8.

Leaving out Italian jobs (retenders) _how many km have been newly tendered for construction_ in each of H2 2019 H1 2020 H2 2020 and H1 2021 does anyone know ....the dense stats threads are all in Polish sorry. .


----------



## Kemo

Kemo said:


> This section is kind of in the middle of nowhere, hence the lack of media attention.
> But several local forumers have confirmed that it is opened.


Video:



Morius said:


> Wczorajszy przejazd nowo otwartym odcinkiem.


----------



## Strzala

^^
Both directions videos by @Toye :


----------



## Chris80678

A good but useless section until rest of S19 is complete between Lublin and Nisko at least


----------



## Strzala

Chris80678 said:


> A good but useless section until rest of S19 is complete between Lublin and Nisko at least


The most important section for fluent traffic is Lublin - Kraśnik and the part avoids Kamień and Nowosielec in podkarpackie region.


----------



## metacatfry

^^Exactly the sections that will open last


----------



## rakcancer

sponge_bob said:


> I am_ somehow _left with an impression that the pipeline is starting to empty in Poland, that since around mid 2019 relatively few new environmental decisions have been made and relatively little tenders have issued for those permitted sections compared to the level of activity in 2017/8.


I had the same impression two years ago. I even posted about that but at that time I was assured by others that everything is going "right direction"...
Definitely there is less tenders for A/S in Poland. Point of attention was turned more to the east. Priorities are now to finish S19, A2 and S61. However even big chunk of these roads were either in tenders or already in construction or design phase like S19 between Rzeszow and Lublin. S6 is going to be finished in 2025 after some turbulences and postpones. S10 and S11 are practically abandoned except few starches around Koszalin and Olesno. There is still lot to finish on S7 around Warsaw and Krakow. 
Beside mentioned S19,A2 and S61 current government is putting more attention to build bypasses around towns all over the Poland.


----------



## sponge_bob

Here is the Siskom map 2 years ago for comparison. I dont see a lot of extra 'blue' since.


----------



## Kirt93

sponge_bob said:


> Leaving out Italian jobs (retenders) _how many km have been newly tendered for construction_ in each of H2 2019 H1 2020 H2 2020 and H1 2021 does anyone know ....the dense stats threads are all in Polish sorry. .


Yes, you are absolutely correct that the pipeline has dried out. The tenders (excl. tenders for completion of aborted contracts; also if a tender was canceled and restarted, it is accounted as one tender) like you were asking for, A/S only:


H1 2019: 47 km
H2 2019: 209 km
H1 2020: 114 km
H2 2020: 305 km
H1 2021: 0 km...

So, where you're incorrect is the assumption of 2019 and 2020 being short on tenders - they weren't. Taking as a baseline the average length of A/S sections opened in 2011 – 2020 being 284 km / year, in two years' time there "should be" roughly 568 km of new tenders getting started to continue the speed.

The total of 2019 & 2020 is 674 km, so about +100 km above that average, those were good years. But you are totally correct that now, in 2021, the pipeline got pretty empty indeed.


sponge_bob said:


> I dont see a lot of extra 'blue' since.


Just the amount of blue is not that reliable of an indicator, because between obtaining the env. decision (when it gets marked blue) and a possibility to start a tender there are still predesign works to be done ("Koncepcja Programowa", KP). There are actually only 3 sections total on the whole A/S network, for which the tenders could've been started to avert this sad "0 km" figure or could be started today:

S7 Czosnów – Kiełpin (10 km) could get tendered (*).
S16 Olsztyn – Biskupiec (11 km + 2nd carriageway 18.5 km) could get tendered.
A2 Biała Podlaska – PL/BY border (32 km) could've got tendered for design-build, but got tendered only for design instead (which means the process will take longer overall).
Other than those 3 sections, the pipeline was/is fully dry already. Fortunately, there some sections with KP works being finally on the home stretch (their results are in the process of getting accepted), so now some tenders should start to appear finally.

(*) However, the adjacent section Kiełpin – Warsaw has its env. decision challenged by the local citizens' protests, and both sections contain parts of the reconstruction of old DK7, so not waiting to tender them together would increase the total time when the entry to Warsaw via DK7 is paralyzed.


----------



## rakcancer

Kirt93 said:


> Fortunately, there some sections with KP works being finally on the home stretch (their results are in the process of getting accepted), so now some tenders should start to appear finally.
> 
> (*) However, the adjacent section Kiełpin – Warsaw has its env. decision challenged by the local citizens' protests, and both sections contain parts of the reconstruction of old DK7, so not tendering them together would increase the total time when the entry to Warsaw via DK7 is paralyzed.


On the top of mentioned by you?
Which one?


----------



## Kirt93

^^ S6 Szczecin western bypass, S10 Bydgoszcz – Toruń and a fragment of S74 west of Kielce have KP either ready and in the process of getting accepted or almost ready. Also there's S6 Koszalin – Słupsk which is in the process of obtaining construction permits, so it's actually closer to construction than those (because after obtaining the permits it can get tendered for construction only) even if the tenders for it will be a bit later.


----------



## rakcancer

S6 between Koszalin and Slupsk was known to be submitted for tender soon. Whole S6 (except Szczecin bypass) is supposed to be finished in 2025 according to GDDKiA.
S10 between Bydgoszcz and Torun - I wish good luck. It is one of the worst ED issued in last years. I will be surprised if no environmental organization will protest that in the middle of forest project.
S6 - Szczecin bypass - that is I think one very costly project considering longest tunnel in Poland to be constructed. I would be surprised if that will go through soon too.
I don't understand why there is no much going on with S10 and S11. Even taking into consideration that they are not biggest priority, we are close to finish all more important S/A. They should be next. Instead S74 and then nothing much... Kind of worrying for future. Beside S10/S11 there are still not finished S5 extension to Ostroda and then S16 to mention just few.


----------



## sponge_bob

Roads like the S10 S11 and S12 make a good network into a very good network. The only big gap in the _basic_ network now is c.Torun - Elk and an eastern bypass of Warsaw. That would then give you 2 routes from most everywhere to everywhere else that is important.

City Bypasses and improving existing sections will be more important than new build long haul routes starting soon I would think, EG improving a lot of the A4.


----------



## sponge_bob

There is one other issue we forgot. Approval of EU funds has been held up a year longer than usual in this cycle and the 2021-2027 cohesion fund is only getting final approval this month. In a normal 7 year EU cycle this would have been sorted a year earlier on.

The new EU funds must be spent by end 2029 (N+2) this time where the last lot expires end 2023 (N+3).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think it's key for Poland to get as much mileage built from the EU budget and leave those town bypasses for later. Once EU funds dry up it's easier to allocate national funding for smaller bypass projects than hundreds of kilometers of new motorway. Look at Spain, they went from full frenzy to a motorway bust very quickly, leaving several corridors largely unfinished with no potential for completion in the foreseeable future under their national budget.


----------



## sponge_bob

Town bypasses (S grade ones) may tick more 'green' boxes from now on and the taxpayer may have to pay for intervening sectors. Oh...and there is a traffic forecast out to 2030 as well.


----------



## Wolfiq

sponge_bob said:


> Roads like the S10 S11 and S12 make a good network into a very good network. The only big gap in the _basic_ network now is c.Torun - Elk and an eastern bypass of Warsaw. That would then give you 2 routes from most everywhere to everywhere else that is important.
> 
> City Bypasses and improving existing sections will be more important than new build long haul routes starting soon I would think, EG improving a lot of the A4.


A4 needs 3 lanes in each direction from Krzyżowa to Brzesko and possibly southern bypass of Katowice urban area. 










Though I guess the priority is still to build new roads. Currently only reconstruction of A4 in województwo dolnośląskie is officially proceeding, but that's long overdue. There is also one study about A4 between Kraków and Katowice, possibly preparing road for GDDKiA takeover from current private operator in 2027.


----------



## sponge_bob

These are what you might call problems of success where the priority so far was problems of failure. The traffic forecast from CUPT indicates the A4 Krakow-Wroclaw is a much higher priority than an S Road to the UA or SK border now.



Wolfiq said:


> A4 needs 3 lanes in each direction from Krzyżowa to Brzesko and possibly southern bypass of Katowice urban area.
> 
> Though I guess the priority is still to build new roads.


Of course priorities change when politicians get involved.


----------



## Sponsor

Isn't that temporary?


----------



## Cookiefabric

GDDKiA has launched the tender for the missing piece of the S61 ("Lomza Bypass").

In a nutshell:

Max 30 months to complete the job, 27 months requested

Milestone markers have been added (simuliar to other 're-tender contract'):
9 months to complete the juction / exit with the DK61
18 months to complete a single carriageway for through traffic/transit (december 2023 is the mentioned date - due to the promise of the current Transport Minister)

According to @Daniel749 should the S61 (as whole) finished by October 1st, 2024. Let's hope that the Dutch phrase does apply here ("After 2 attempts, the 3rd attempt usually succeed" - _drie maal is scheepsrecht _)


----------



## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> How do you like the signage around the new S2 in Warsaw?


A massive gantry for a ridiculously tiny sign

Let's hope it is a temporary sign


----------



## Lombat

It is not.
This is one of the effects of the war between GDDKiA (or Goverment) and the City of Warsaw (Trzaskowski).
The signs are on the size as the City wanted.

I suppose the gantries were originally designed for much bigger signs, but during the war the City pushed to use those tiny ones.


----------



## Chris80678

Lombat said:


> It is not.
> This is one od the effects of the war between GDDKiA (or Goverment) and the City od Warsaw (Trzaskowski).
> The signs are on the size as the City wanted.
> 
> I suppose the gantries were originally designed for much bigger signs, but during the war the City pushed to use those tiny ones.


Let's hope that drivers have brilliant eyesight then 😆


----------



## yascoos

Chris80678 said:


> Let's hope that drivers have brilliant eyesight then 😆


Most drivers don't look at the signs at all, but at the GM on their phone.


----------



## Cookiefabric

^^ And use the signs as confirmation


----------



## PovilD

Kemo said:


> How do you like the signage around the new S2 in Warsaw?


A masterpiece of signage. It should be on the notebook of worth examples.


----------



## PovilD

Lombat said:


> It is not.
> This is one of the effects of the war between GDDKiA (or Goverment) and the City of Warsaw (Trzaskowski).
> The signs are on the size as the City wanted.
> 
> I suppose the gantries were originally designed for much bigger signs, but during the war the City pushed to use those tiny ones.


The war might not have happened if sign size were determined by designed speed limit.

Signage size appears to be on the other Commonwealth capital too, Vilnius, where signs on city municipality highways are absurdly small and badly marked while Lithuanian Road Administration controlled roads have more reasonable signage, including font size.

Warsaw and Vilnius directional signage often reminds me almost Soviet understanding how to sign directional signage.
Vilnius sometimes even worse as they don't put advance signs on major junctions on municipality controlled highways.


----------



## RipleyLV

What's on the opposite direction sign though? It's clearly larger, so it might have something more added than Poznań


----------



## Ady

Lombat said:


> It is not.
> This is one of the effects of the war between GDDKiA (or Goverment) and the City of Warsaw (Trzaskowski).
> The signs are on the size as the City wanted.
> 
> I suppose the gantries were originally designed for much bigger signs, but during the war the City pushed to use those tiny ones.


Are Warsaw's city council & mayor also ultra-left, like in Budapest? You don't wanna know what they're doing to this beautiful city. They started a ton of major traffic reconstructions (roads, bridges, tram, metro) in the center at the same time, while last year when traffic was historically low they did nothing. It completely collapsed traffic


----------



## PovilD

RipleyLV said:


> What's on the opposite direction sign though? It's clearly larger, so it might have something more added than Poznań


I expect few destinations and road numbers for each direction.


----------



## Proterra

Ady said:


> Are Warsaw's city council & mayor also ultra-left, like in Budapest? You don't wanna know what they're doing to this beautiful city. They started a ton of major traffic reconstructions (roads, bridges, tram, metro) in the center at the same time, while last year when traffic was historically low they did nothing. It completely collapsed traffic


No, there aren't any mayors or councils in major Polish cities that I know of which are predominately ultra-left. Most are centrists or centre-right, a few ones (Częstochowa and Gdynia come to mind) have a slightly left leaning to it, but the vast majority are firmly in the centre.


----------



## Ady

Proterra said:


> No, there aren't any mayors or councils in major Polish cities that I know of which are predominately ultra-left. Most are centrists or centre-right, a few ones (Częstochowa and Gdynia come to mind) have a slightly left leaning to it, but the vast majority are firmly in the centre.


So what's the background then of the "war" between the Warsaw and national governments?


----------



## Sponsor

RipleyLV said:


> What's on the opposite direction sign though? It's clearly larger, so it might have something more added than Poznań












And the other signs on that intersection:


zyzio248 said:


> Chyba nie było ... dla kompletności zdjęcia tablic na wszystkich bramownicach w okolicy skrzyżowania
> I. Gandhi i F. Płaskowickiej.
> 
> I. Gandhi w kierunku wjazdu na S2
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 1819370
> 
> 
> 
> Tablica na końcu łącznicy S2 Ursynów.
> Niestety ochrona nie dała się przekonać ... zdjęcia z za S2.
> 
> View attachment 1819365
> 
> 
> 
> Ul. F. Płaskowickiej w kierunku ul. Puławskiej.
> 
> View attachment 1819372


----------



## RipleyLV

Oh wow, I thought this was a 4-lane street  This then makes it even more comic


----------



## sponge_bob

Surely that is _temporary_ signage before the S2 tunnel opens and it is then replaced????? 

The long distance traffic is being taken off the S2 in the interim and the gantries can support much larger signs long term.


I see sensible quick fixes not "war".


----------



## Proterra

Ady said:


> So what's the background then of the "war" between the Warsaw and national governments?


Warsaw is controlled by one faction of the opposition, who hates the governing party. The governing party is economically leftist while socially conservative and the party controlling Warszawa is socially centrist while economically being a bit further right. The main leftist party, Lewica, doesn't really "control" any major cities in Poland, and in the Sejm they often go along with both the governing party _(on economic matters)_ as well as the biggest opposing party _(mainly on matters like the EU, the courts, the role of the church and so on)_

Both the main opposition party as well as the governing party are woefully incompetent, and what's going on between the two parties looks more like children having a tantrum on each other than actual respectable politics. The good thing is, this is Poland, and the country is quite capable of running itself. The best analogy in Europe in my opinion would be Belgium. Personally, I support much of the economic policies of the national government, however, I am sick and tired of the cabaret which the Sejm seems to be turning into. Again, both parties are guilty there, especially when you start adding clowns like Konfederacja. 

I really hope that in the next elections Szymon Hołownia will manage to get in with enough support to form the next government.


----------



## Cookiefabric

The effect of "being from the other side" is already clear on nation level with S6, S10 & S11. Not really much did happen in that corner of Poland.

But to be honest: I'm glad that there is still happening a LOT in Poland on the infrastructure topic. It was and is needed for Poland and Mid/Eastern-Europe does benefit indirectly.


----------



## PovilD

Sponsor said:


>


Since I don't have good feeling of location, I thought it will be something like Gdansk, Poznan, Bialystok locations. When I saw picture, I got that "oh..." reaction with Terespol, thinking why not Minsk.
Direction straight at least provide street name. In my country it would probably be only city district name


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

Unfortunately road signs heading east recognize just Terespol. The sign should be towards Siedlce. Maybe when Terespol will be incorrect (the A2 shall be rerouted to a village to the north) they will start replacing it.


----------



## Chris80678

A video of recently opened S61 between Szczuczyn and Stawiski:






Video posted by @vuv in the Polish forum


----------



## Chris80678

Jakub Warszauer said:


> Unfortunately road signs heading east recognize just Terespol. The sign should be towards Siedlce. Maybe when Terespol will be incorrect (the A2 shall be rerouted to a village to the north) they will start replacing it.


Hopefully not replaced with Kukuryki (the village where A2 will eventually cross into Belarus)!


----------



## PovilD

In my country standards, I would expect direction A2 East as Sieldce; Brest (BY) or Sieldce;Minsk (BY)
I've read my country documents that road toward the border must have at least non-foreign locality until the last more important city.


----------



## Cookiefabric

PovilD said:


> In my country standards, I would expect direction A2 East as Sieldce; Brest (BY) or Sieldce;Minsk (BY)
> I've read my country documents that road toward the border must have at least non-foreign locality until the last more important city.


with the exception of Warszawa & Riga, although this one might disappear as well


----------



## PovilD

Cookiefabric said:


> with the exception of Warszawa & Riga, although this one might disappear as well


Yes, you are right. There are few flawed places where foreign location is not marked. I would mention only A13 Klaipėda-Liepaja (Lithuanian seaside) as most notable example. I guess A2 Vilnius-Panevėžys could have Riga signs from Vilnius, and A1 Vilnius-Kaunas could have Warsaw sign in the future. It would be nice to mark neighboring EU capitals from another EU capital.

Even with this rule applied, I actually not miss important foreign locations on Lithuanian roads. Local destinations are indeed more popular, and it makes more sense to mark foreign locations only more close to state border.

I guess specific rules could be applied not only for Via Baltica, but for major Euroasian transportation corridors. It's just Lithuania doesn't have those.
E30 is more important than Via Baltica. I guess something like Brest/Minsk - Warszawa - Berlin signage would be used. E40 could be something like Lviv-Krakow-Wroclaw-Dresden.


----------



## geogregor

Proterra said:


> Warsaw is controlled by one faction of the opposition, who hates the governing party. The governing party is economically leftist while socially conservative and the party controlling Warszawa is socially centrist while economically being a bit further right. The main leftist party, Lewica, doesn't really "control" any major cities in Poland, and in the Sejm they often go along with both the governing party _(on economic matters)_ as well as the biggest opposing party _(mainly on matters like the EU, the courts, the role of the church and so on)_
> 
> Both the main opposition party as well as the governing party are woefully incompetent, and what's going on between the two parties looks more like children having a tantrum on each other than actual respectable politics. The good thing is, this is Poland, and the country is quite capable of running itself. The best analogy in Europe in my opinion would be Belgium. Personally, I support much of the economic policies of the national government, however, I am sick and tired of the cabaret which the Sejm seems to be turning into. Again, both parties are guilty there, especially when you start adding clowns like Konfederacja.
> 
> I really hope that in the next elections Szymon Hołownia will manage to get in with enough support to form the next government.


Good description. I could agree with most of it. Except I can't support economic policy of the ruling party. Lowering pansion age was as daft as it gets, especially in current demographic situation of Poland. And then they keep throwing money everywhere, especially to rural backwaters where they have the most support. It is a total waste. 

It works great in good times. But it doesn't bode well long term.


----------



## rakcancer

S6 - Design and Build Contract for another section - 22 km long between Lesnice and Bozepole Wielkie has been signed with Budimex company. Anticipated completion date - in 38 months.
Source and more info:


https://www.gov.pl/web/gddkia/startuja-prace-przy-realizacji-projektu-i-budowy-odcinka-s6-lesnice---bozepole-wielkie


----------



## Kemo

rakcancer said:


> Anticipated completion date - in 38 months.


Nope. 47 months.


----------



## rakcancer

GDDKiA says: 38 months.


----------



## czerwony_bo_szybszy

rakcancer said:


> GDDKiA says: 38 months.


38 months but excluding winter period, which is 3 months every winter, so 38m of work, 47 effective; however winter periods don't apply to design I think, so this will be Sep'25, or if not including break in design period some 3-6 months earlier; anyway, H1/25, in 4y from now S6 should be complete


----------



## rakcancer

Hehehe, that was obvious and I knew you are going to add your comment about winter but ok let's add that winter time if it happens at all...


----------



## Kirt93

The last, fourth, section of the pre-WWII southern carriageway of future A18 is getting demolished.

Since its opening in 1937, this section of the Reichsautobahn served the traffic for 84 years (except that some bridges had to get closed for safety concerns). Its quality has got disastrous with time, obviously, but this is nonetheless a truly astounding period for the surface to last with no large-scale reconstructions.

At the moment, three fragments remain where the original pre-WWII concrete surface is still being used by the east-bound traffic. They are all very short (some 4 km of length in total out of 70 km), so driving on DK18 can now finally be considered a fairy pleasant experience overall, for the first time in so many years...









































More photos

If anyone wishes to be able to say they have driven on an actual 84-years old Hitler's motorway, without needing to endure it for longer than necessary to "get the experience", now's the perfect time! (The other such fragment is still available on A6 near Szczecin, westbound, until the end of August) 

@rakcancer No, there is no "if it happens at all"  The contractual time is 47 months and that's it. Even if through each of the winters there was not a single snowfall, and all days in the year were 20 C degrees and above, the contractual opening date (which might or might not align with the actual opening date, of course) will still be exactly 47 months from now.


----------



## Proterra

czerwony_bo_szybszy said:


> 38 months but excluding winter period, which is 3 months every winter, so 38m of work, 47 effective; however winter periods don't apply to design I think, so this will be Sep'25, or if not including break in design period some 3-6 months earlier; anyway, H1/25, in 4y from now S6 should be complete


It's Budimex. Wouldn't be surprised if parts of the new motorway would already be finished in summer '24.


----------



## Cookiefabric

Budimex's more recent track record isn't that good any more (unfortunately) - for early openings.
That might be maybe related to COVID-19, although the more important thing is that Budimex will finish the job. Even with 7 - 15 months delay.


----------



## Chris80678

Some excellent photos of Ursynów Tunnel on S2 taken at night as part of tunnel lighting testing:









[S2/79] Południowa Obwodnica Warszawy


Przepraszam za prywatę w tym wątku, ale w niedzielę będę jechał z Lublina nad morze, zatem jak najlepiej (w godzinach przedpołudniowych) zjechać z S2 i wrócić z powrotem - oczywiście w sensie ominięcia nieoddanego odcinka? Mogę w tej kwestii ufać googlowi? Dojeżdżasz do ostatniego oddanego...




www.skyscrapercity.com





Opening of S61 Stawiski - Kolno is slightly delayed


----------



## Strzala

*S19:*

Section Lublin - Niedrzwica:

















































More: Zdjęcia lotnicze - lipiec 2021


----------



## Strzala

*S19* Kraśnik bypass:






































More: S19 Karśnik Projekt i budowa drogi ekspresowej S19 Lublin - Rzeszów odc. obwodnicy Kraśnika


----------



## Chris80678

Photos of signage on Niemodlin bypass on DK46:









[DK46] Obwodnica Niemodlina


Dzisiejszy przejazd DK 46 88.8 KM miejscowość Sosnówka




www.skyscrapercity.com


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Szczekociny, a village of 3,600 people, signed 179 kilometers in advance...


----------



## Lankosher

bzbox said:


> Where should that intersection with S8 be on the map?


Here OpenStreetMap
You can also look it up here - OpenStreetMap Deutschland: Karte


----------



## Cookiefabric

bzbox said:


> Where should that intersection with S8 be on the map?


According to the current Minister of Transport - the S61, as whole, must be completely drivable (with at least 1 carriageway) on 31.12.2023

ZRiD is expected for Q3/Q4 this year; if it arrives on december 2021 -- don't be surprised that it might take up to 2025 to have the S61 completed in it's full glory.


----------



## sponge_bob

Cookiefabric said:


> According to the current Minister of Transport - the S61, as whole, must be completely drivable (with at least 1 carriageway) on 31.12.2023


The 7 year EU funds deadline. Are there any road projects in the Recovery Plan ....to be built by 2026 or 2027.


----------



## Lombat

Today our Goverment announced a new Plan of high speed road constructioning, PBDK 2030.
They gonna build everything till 2033.
Of course it is not posibble by many reasons.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1424691383101763585
There was a list on gov site, but full of mistakes.
Already taken down.
Here it is:








Program Budowy Dróg Krajowych do 2030 roku ogłoszony


Ponad 2,5 tys. km nowych dróg szybkiego ruchu, dokończenie trwających inwestycji na prawie 4 tys. km, pełna sieć dróg autostrad i dróg ekspresowych - to założenia ogłoszonego 9 sierpnia 2021 r. Rządowego Programu Budowy Dróg Krajowych do 2030 r. (z perspektywą do 2033 r.).




www.rynekinfrastruktury.pl





Tommorow next propaganda about adding S8 Kłodzko-Czech border, maybe they will corret the list and publish it again.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1424693377078071299


----------



## Tonik1

by expressway on dk94 they mean (Katowice) Olkusz-Krakow?


----------



## geogregor

Construction of S7 through boring flatlands of northern Mazovia


----------



## Wrocl'awianin

Tonik1 said:


> by expressway on dk94 they mean (Katowice) Olkusz-Krakow?


Wrocław-Lubin section.
Anyway, nobody will promise you more than a politician. Promising twice is like making it real.


----------



## Chris80678

There are some good photos of Ursynów Tunnel on S2 Warsaw Southern Bypass in this article:









Prace na ursynowskiej części obwodnicy są już na ukończeniu







www.se.pl





The tunnel is ready. However it's opening is delayed

The key quote from the article is this one:

"After the end of the tests and obtaining the decision on the use permit, in the coming weeks it will be possible to make the tunnel available to drivers - said Małgorzata Tarnowska. However, she did not specify how many weeks were involved".


----------



## sponge_bob

Chris80678 said:


> "After the end of the tests and obtaining the decision on the use permit, in the coming weeks it will be possible to make the tunnel available to drivers -


Once a tunnel is built and the sensors installed the systems need to be tested and the whole lot is then handed over to the local fire brigade. If the fire brigade are not happy, and they may want a practice run or two, the tunnel will not open.


----------



## Chris80678

sponge_bob said:


> Once a tunnel is built and the sensors installed the systems need to be tested and the whole lot is then handed over to the local fire brigade. If the fire brigade are not happy, and they may want a practice run or two, the tunnel will not open.


Exactly, the safety of users comes first


----------



## sponge_bob

Chris80678 said:


> Exactly, the safety of users comes first


And to guarantee that safety there are trade offs, Have a look at this. 






Tunnel Closures – Dublin Tunnel







dublintunnel.ie


----------



## spacetweek

Chris80678 said:


> *S61 E67, Poland*
> 
> 35 km of S61 _Via Baltica_ motorway was opened today between Stawiski and Kisielnica
> 
> Via Baltica is a motorway connecting central Europe with Lithuania.


It's Szczuczyn to Kisielnica, map here.


----------



## Chris80678

spacetweek said:


> It's Szczuczyn to Kisielnica, map here.


S61 (Szczuczyn - Stawiski) had already opened prior to this section (Stawiski - Kisielnica) actually


----------



## geogregor

S6/S11 junction


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425542417596489731


















Of course construction of S11 from here is just beginning.


----------



## spacetweek

Chris80678 said:


> S61 (Szczuczyn - Stawiski) had already opened prior to this section (Stawiski - Kisielnica) actually


You said "35 km opened today". That distance is for Szczuczyn to Kisielnica.


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## Chris80678

My mistake


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## Kirt93

The proposal of "Road construction plan 2021 – 2030 (with the prospect up to 2033)" has been published: here (important parts near the end). Sadly, it doesn't disclose the planned dates for each item. The allocated funds, however, suggest that this is actually more of a "Road construction plan 2021 – 2033", as the level of funding allocated for 2031–2033 is similar as for the earlier years.

The estimated cost of the plan is 291 bln PLN (64 bln €). This figure includes all costs in years 2021 – 2033, both new constructions and ongoing projects from the 2014-23 plan.

*According to the proposal, until 2033 it is intended that:
1) Main network:*

*All planned A/S roads except one section will be constructed.*
This includes the sections recently added to the plans: S5 from Wrocław to Bolków (linking to S3 towards Czech Republic), S8 from Wrocław to Kłodzko, and A50/S50 (Warsaw 2nd ringroad).

S7 Kraków – Myślenice (ca. 25 km), as the only A/S section, would be constructed after 2033.
However, the intended reconstruction of the existing dual-carriageway DK7 "communist-era highway" should remove all of the at-grade intersections and pedestrian crossings by ca. 2027 – so it will become an expressway-like road (collision-free dual-carriageway GP class) by ca. 2027, but not an expressway.

*2) Newly added extensions:*

S7/DK7 *from Rabka to the Slovak border* (linking to planned R3 direction Budapest) will get constructed. It might be built as an expressway S7, or as a dual carriageway DK7 "GP-class with expressway-like parameters".
S8 *from Kłodzko to the Czech border* (direction Brno/Vienna) will be constructed along the route of DK33. There is no highway planned on the Czech side linking to it, however a new (single-carriageway) road on a new alignment is planned there.
An expressway link between A1/S8 interchange (east of Łódź) and the S12/S74 interchange (planned) will be constructed. This will also "smoothen" the route of S8.
*3) Major GP-class projects:*

GP-class routes will be constructed for DK25 Ostrów Wlkp. – Konin, DK75 Brzesko – Nowy Sącz and DK36/94 Lubin – Wrocław (parallel to A4). They will most likely be almost expressway-like roads.
*4) Widenings:*

A2 will get widened to 2x3 (near Warsaw to 2x4) on the section *Łódź – Warsaw *(88 km).
A4 will get widened to 2x3 on the section *Krzyżowa* (interchange with A18) *– Wrocław – Katowice – Kraków – Tarnów* (453 km). In Wrocław area and Katowice area this might mean constructing a new alignment.
S19 north of Rzeszów (the existing section with interchanging 2+1 profile) will get widened to a dual-carriageway.


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## ChrisZwolle

Not included in the plan is to bring A2 at Świecko to autostrada design standards. This is obviously not an urgent priority compared to those missing links, but they're not planning for it either.


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## MichiH

Kirt93 said:


> The proposal of "Road construction plan 2021 – 2030 (with the prospect up to 2033)" has been published:


Do you expect long discussion about the proposal or should it get final very soon?


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## dominobb

It is announced that the plan will be passed in the fourth quarter of 2021. 
The discussion is facade. You can almost be sure that this is the final shape of the plan.


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## geogregor

Niemiec w Polsce said:


> It is suprising that the current government is undertaking such unpopular measures which won't help them winning elections. I couldn't find any information for the real reason but I can only wild guess. Either they try to find new income for straighting the budget but other ways would be probably easier and less emotional. Or the EU is giving pressure to fulfill specific requirements otherwise fines will taken upon them.


Or maybe they realized that actually quite a lot of people might quietly support such measures despite of some vocal opposition from some of the more aggressive drivers.


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## The Wild Boy

Why is it so hard to put speed cameras on motorways? How big of an investment would that be?


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## Chris80678

Some photos of S19 (Lublin - Niedrzwica).

Photos posted by @AndyB66 in the Polish forum.

This section may possibly open to traffic next week.

WD1 (near start of contracted section):










Strzeszkowice exit (current DK19 at top right of photo):










Niedrzwica Duża exit (at end of contracted section):










More photos can be found on the project website here:



Zdjęcia lotnicze - sierpień 2021


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## Proterra

geogregor said:


> Or maybe they realized that actually quite a lot of people might quietly support such measures despite of some vocal opposition from some of the more aggressive drivers.


I'm one of these people, although I do think there should be a two-fold measure; remove speed limits on rural and suburban A-roads and most S-roads, while cracking down harsh on aggressive driving on other roads, especially in built-up areas. And maybe, rather than making it dependent on a 30 km/h exceeding of the posted limit, 50% would make more sense for the harsh rules; meaning that on a section of 100 km/h klasa GP droga ekspresowa, one needs to do 150 in order to get slammed under the new rules, but inside towns where 30, 40 or 50 is the limit, 45, 60 or 75 is enough to get ones "ass handed to them" under the new rules.


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## Niemiec w Polsce

Proterra said:


> I'm one of these people, although I do think there should be a two-fold measure; remove speed limits on rural and suburban A-roads and most S-roads, while cracking down harsh on aggressive driving on other roads, especially in built-up areas. And maybe, rather than making it dependent on a 30 km/h exceeding of the posted limit, 50% would make more sense for the harsh rules; meaning that on a section of 100 km/h klasa GP droga ekspresowa, one needs to do 150 in order to get slammed under the new rules, but inside towns where 30, 40 or 50 is the limit, 45, 60 or 75 is enough to get ones "ass handed to them" under the new rules.


I agree in many points.
First of all the current fines were established in 1997. Ever since economy has grown and so the salaries and incomes, so that in an EU comparison the salary-fine ratio in PL has become ridicously low. Considering that extreme reckless driving ended up mostly with a 500 zl fine a 10 points which got erased a year later anyway. So in the end drivers had 2 free tickets for reckless driving per year, only costing them 1000 zl. As I am from Germany I can tell that there once caught with extreme reckless driving this goes to court, fines go than up into couple of thousand Euros and license is revoked up to one year. Additionally you have to undergo a special test to check if your are mentally capable of driving a car, a so called 'idiot-test'.
When I lived in Poland I noticed that speeding and getting from A to B as crazy as possible was seen as a widely accpeted challenge. People were even proud of those actions, hanging up fotoradar pictures in their office to show off. To brake/change this mentality will take for sure a longer time and higher fines are just one step into that direction.
Many of those measures go into the right direction but I agree that a few make rather less or no sense which makes it also harder to be accepted by the society. Just an example. It is forbidden to overtake at a zebra crossing which also counts if there are 2 or more lanes into one direction (in my opinion their shouldn't be zebra crossign on such wide roads, but only traffic lights). It is also considered as overtaking just driving in parallel and one car is suddenly getting slower. Also a few speed limits are ridicoulous. For example on the ramps of an highway or expressway interchange mostly it is limited to 60 or even 50 km/h. Come on, really? In all other countries it is between 80 and 120. That's the sense of barrier-free roads. Or their are some expressway stretches which are not completely finished. Some works offside the road have to be done yet. The road itself is completely finished and no road works, nothing, but the posted speed limit is 70km/h. Now going 100 km/h on a fully operational express road has the same consequences as going 60 in a 30-zone can't be right.

Long story short. I am happy to see that long-overdoing measures will be set up even though there a some potentials for fine-tuning. And of course they make only sense when there would more controls. To be honest I have the feeling 10 years ago there were much more controls as it is today. But maybe I am wrong.


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## rakcancer

The Wild Boy said:


> Why is it so hard to put speed cameras on motorways? How big of an investment would that be?


There is actually different system of measuring speed on highways being introduced in Poland. Measuring time traveled by car on highways between point A and B and comparing it to travel time with allowed speed.
I myself saw signs informing about that kind of speed checking while traveling on A2 around Poznan this summer.
There are some recent articles about that (in polish):








Uwaga kierowcy! Kamery GDDKiA mierzą prędkość na autostradach!


✅ Mamy ponad 4200 km autostrad i dróg ekspresowych, które są jednak rzadko patrolowane przez policję, co zachęca wielu kierowców do zbyt szybkiej jazdy. ✅ Kamery GDDKiA wyłapują te nieprawidłowości.




www.wyborkierowcow.pl












Odcinkowy pomiar prędkości. Jak i gdzie działa? Lista lokalizacji 2021


Odcinkowy pomiar prędkości już kilka lat temu stał się elementem drogowej rzeczywistości w Polsce. Jak i gdzie konkretnie działa? Przygotowaliśmy listę nowych lokalizacji aktualnych dla roku 2021.




moto.pl


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## random_user_name

You're confusing a couple of different things here:

ISA - Intelligent speed adaptation, is a system that's going to be equipped in all new cars in EU in the near future.

The first article you've linked, and also probably what you saw on A2, is about measuring average speed by GDDKiA for statistical purposes, nothing more.
The second one is about average speed cameras, which started appearing on Polish roads a couple of years ago, but so far none of them have been placed on A/S roads. I don't know the reasons why are the authorities so reluctant about placing any speed cameras on A/S roads, but that's how it's been so far.

Although it may change in the near future, the first precedent was placing a speed camera on A1->A4 ramp in Gliwice a few years back. Now they're planning to add average speed checks on S8 in Warsaw and on some stretches of A4 between Wroclaw and Krzyzowa. There are also average speed cameras on the construction site of the remaining stretch of A1, but I don't think that it's signposted as a motorway already.

Does anyone have more recent news in this topic?


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## rakcancer

Yeah, I mixed up some stuff here. Thanks for clearing up.


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## geogregor

random_user_name said:


> Although it may change in the near future, the first precedent was placing a speed camera on A1->A4 ramp in Gliwice a few years back.


Yep, my bro got ticket there, despite travelling the route regularly. Once he "forgot" to slow down  I nearly got caught myself during the last visit to Poland. Had to break quite hard once I remembered about the damn camera.

I have no problem with cameras in general, but here they could rise the limit a bit, if I remember it is only 50 km/h.


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## Chris80678

Visual inspection of S7 Napierki - Mława:






Still a massive amount to do here if it is to open in spring 2022

Visual inspection of DK15 Nowe Miasto Lubawskie bypass:


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## metacatfry

That DK15... kinda interesting, it's got roundabouts and level crossings, yet they bothered to make frontage roads.


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## javimix19

I traveled for first time to Poland last summer, visiting the area of Warmia and Masuria and I was pleasantly surprised of the quality of secondary roads. Before the travel I studied the expressways of the route (S7 from Warsaw and S51 to Olsztyn) and national roads, very modern and good infraestructures, but I didn't expect that secondary roads were so good and well mantained. 
In Spain secondary roads are in regular condition, it depends of local authorities and the money they decide to invest in. Sadly these are the roads with more accidents not only because of road condition but for reckless driving and lack of police controls.


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## kokomo

The Wild Boy said:


> Why is it so hard to put speed cameras on motorways? How big of an investment would that be?


Have you ever driven in Italy? You'll find lots of them everywhere!



rakcancer said:


> There is actually different system of measuring speed on highways being introduced in Poland. Measuring time traveled by car on highways between point A and B and comparing it to travel time with allowed speed.


That's more or less like the Tutor system works in Italy. They check your speed at point A, and then check it back at point B, which is located at X kilometers apart. If the elapsed time between such points is lower than the time at maximum speed recorded, the system assumes you've driven faster and therefore you get a ticket


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## rakcancer

javimix19 said:


> I traveled for first time to Poland last summer, visiting the area of Warmia and Masuria and I was pleasantly surprised of the quality of secondary roads. Before the travel I studied the expressways of the route (S7 from Warsaw and S51 to Olsztyn) and national roads, very modern and good infraestructures, but I didn't expect that secondary roads were so good and well mantained.
> In Spain secondary roads are in regular condition, it depends of local authorities and the money they decide to invest in. Sadly these are the roads with more accidents not only because of road condition but for reckless driving and lack of police controls.


That is interesting, I met Spanish tourists somewhere on outskirts of Gdynia couple of years ago. They were also surprised that Poland looks so modern, clean and well maintained even in some random, not touristy places. It seems Poland doesn't have good opinion in Spain, does it?


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## ChrisZwolle

To be fair, most people in Western Europe think of Poland as a poor, ugly, rundown country. They see large numbers of Polish people fleeing their country for better wages, so they assume life must be bad in Poland.


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## metacatfry

Sentiments take a long time to change. Poland has moved a long way in a short time.


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## rakcancer

ChrisZwolle said:


> To be fair, most people in Western Europe think of Poland as a poor, ugly, rundown country. They see large numbers of Polish people fleeing their country for better wages, so they assume live must be bad in Poland.


I see lot of Spaniards, Portuguese or Italians fleeing their countries for better wages or to find job at all to places like England , especially London too...
From Nederland point of view may be different. I was wondering how Spaniards see that.


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## Cookiefabric

The Dutch media usually writes that the German Economy is the leading one within the EU. Since 2019 I dare to doubt that and rather give that title to Poland.
While Europe (Germany included) was 'suffering' from a crisis (2012-2013); Poland showed positive numbers. 

But to keep it in general, some thoughts from Dutch people about Poland (NOT mine):

They drink a lot and are pretty annoying when drunk (my add: England beats that hard, including the 'being annoying part')
If I go to Poland, they properly will have a lot of Soviet Concrete (my add: Try Latvia, Poland will prove you wrong once you're there -- Even Podlaski will prove you wrong)
They still drive very old cars and the roads are not safe (my add: The driving style is kinda different, just get used to that one -- and we all know that Poland is building a solid network of Motorway & Expressways)


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## kokomo

When I went to the Dalmatian litoral in Croatia three years ago, I had the impression of being in Italy (at the end of the day they are located on the other side of the pond) but surrounded with old time buildings resembling a crumbling communist country. Roads were narrow, signs looked rusty and deteriorated, asphalt seemed worn out. But what shocked me the most was the style of houses all square and very similar to each other (that is when you left touristy spots).
People were so friendly and food was yummy (pastikada🤤).
But there was yet a contrast interesting to check


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## ChrisZwolle

metacatfry said:


> Sentiments take a long time to change. Poland has moved a long way in a short time.


Sure, but most people in Western Europe have never been to Poland. It's not seen as a country for vacation, many people still think in terms of the Eastern Block.


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## baczek333

ChrisZwolle said:


> I've noticed on Google Maps that the road to the Hel peninsula gets hugely congested during summer weekends (as well as the Tricity region overall). People know to find it, but these are most likely domestic tourists, not Germans or Dutch. Or Chinese.


Sure, but I responded to a Lithuanian, my point is that while not even Lithuanians know about existence of such places then hard to expect westerners would know about them. They don't lack beauty but simply advertising.


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## PovilD

baczek333 said:


> Sure, but I responded to a Lithuanian, my point is that while not even Lithuanians know about existence of such places then hard to expect westerners would know about them. They don't lack beauty but simply advertising.


Lithuanians know Polish Coast, mostly around Tricity (Gdansk) region, and even value them as cheap and having relatively high quality services.
...at least from the few articles in the media. Polish Coast could benefit a little bit from Baltic tourists.

I don't know people from my personal circle who travel to Poland for vacation, they mostly travel to Lithuanian or Latvian coast. North Lithuanians have quick access to Gulf of Riga coast, South and West Lithuanians prefer Lithuanian coast.


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## baczek333

PovilD said:


> I don't know people from my personal circle who travel to Poland for vacation, they mostly travel to Lithuanian or Latvian coast


Well, obviously I can understand it, but I meant that you mentioned the Curonian Spit as something unique, something the Polish coast supposedly doesn't have, while the Polish coast has similar spits/peninsulas which definitely aren't behind the Curonian Spit in terms of beauty. So I guess you said this because in fact you don't really hear about the Polish coast. And you don't hear about it, just because it lacks advertising. On the other hand, I am sure you've heard about Ireland's tourist attractions because everyone has, even if they're objectively not that great and interesting, that's what advertising and strong cultural influence do to the tourism industry.

I guess Poland generally has a 'bad name' in Baltic countries, it's seen as a transit country you have to drive through to get to 'real Europe' like Germany and offers nothing but fields, forests and congested roads (Russians have a similar stereotype). That's especially sad that Lithuanians aren't interested in what Poland has to offer touristically/historically, as it was often part of the Lithuanian history as well. Still you'd rarely see Lithuanians visiting Warsaw or Kraków (unlike Poles who visit Vilnius very often).


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## PovilD

baczek333 said:


> Well, obviously I can understand it, but I meant that you mentioned the Curonian Spit as something unique, something the Polish coast supposedly doesn't have, while the Polish coast has similar spits/peninsulas which definitely aren't behind the Curonian Spit in terms of beauty. So I guess you said this because in fact you don't really hear about the Polish coast. And you don't hear about it, just because it lacks advertising.


You're probably right. Curonian Spit is actually being advertised a little bit as "unique", but actually maybe only inside Baltic Countries.

I could not think readily about some "uniqueness" of Polish Coast. I think we have everything you have 



> On the other hand, I am sure you've heard about Ireland's tourist attractions because everyone has, even if they're objectively not that great and interesting, that's what advertising and strong cultural influence do to the tourism industry.


To be honest, although I could readily name few Irish cities, I can't think of Irish tourist attractions, but I know a bit Irish Folklore/culture. I think that would make me interested to visit the country. It's opposite for Poland. It's not around folklore, but actually more tourist attractions: Wavel Castle which is part of our (Commonwealth) history too, birthplace of John Paul II, Augustow Canal, Oswencim, and even Częstochowa as center for Polish Catholic pilgrims. It's not that hype in Lithuania, but if you care about your country and history of your country these are interesting objects.



> I guess Poland generally has a 'bad name' in Baltic countries, it's seen as a transit country you have to drive through to get to 'real Europe' like Germany and offers nothing but fields, forests and congested roads (Russians have a similar stereotype). That's especially sad that Lithuanians aren't interested in what Poland has to offer touristically/historically, as it was often part of the Lithuanian history as well. Still you'd rarely see Lithuanians visiting Warsaw or Kraków (unlike Poles who visit Vilnius very often).


Well, after complicated relations in 1920s and 1930s, followed by closed Soviet-Polish borders in 20th century, with result that parts of our history were out of our education programs, I think there is some revival, and people starting to love our Commonwealth history too. It's important that Poland and Lithuania have chosen similar path for development into EU and West integration which make us closer and relearn our history. Poland actually doesn't have that bad reputation for Lithuanians as it may seem. There are two sides of the medal. One side says Poland is indeed viewed as a bit poorer, lower quality than the West Europe, but also valued that the country is developing quite fast, people are relatively rich (richer than Russians and arguably some of the Baltic countries). The effect is especially strengthened by the construction of motorways we discuss in this thread  ...and the fact that Lithuanians actually don't visit much of the poorer rural areas, we mostly visit rich largest cities and drive best roads.


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## Kemo

PovilD said:


> I could not think readily about some "uniqueness" of Polish Coast. I think we have everything you have


I bet you don't have Moving Dunes. Ha! 










(Unfortunately, it is still a very hard-to-reach place in terms of road infrastructure. S6 is required)



> It's opposite for Poland. It's not around folklore, but actually more tourist attractions: Wavel Castle which is part of our (Commonwealth) history too, birthplace of John Paul II, Augustow Canal, Oswencim, and even Częstochowa as center for Polish Catholic pilgrims.


Nobody mentioned Toruń? I think it is way more beautiful than Kraków (which I think is overrated, but that's maybe because I live not far from it).


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## PovilD

Kemo said:


> I bet you don't have Moving Dunes. Ha!


Curonian Spit definitively had moving dunes, few villages were burred.
I don't know if these Nida dunes are still considered moving  We only have "Dead" (not moving) dunes.


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## KarolisGr

baczek333 said:


> That's especially sad that Lithuanians aren't interested in what Poland has to offer touristically/historically, as it was often part of the Lithuanian history as well. Still you'd rarely see Lithuanians visiting Warsaw or Kraków (unlike Poles who visit Vilnius very often).


I would like to counter this one. Lithuanian Tourism board estimates in 2020 the most common destination for *inland* travel was Latvia with ~100K visitors, 2nd was Poland with ~80K visitors. Poland is slightly below primarily because the boarders opened up a bit later. In 2019 both numbers were very close with Latvia being first only by a small margin. The numbers supposedly exclude people who go to Suwalki area only for shopping.

I have some good friends in the tourism sector and follow the trends my self. Over the last 5 years inland travel to Poland tripeled (this again excludes shoppers). Experts agree that post-COVID the groth will continue with Poland being the most visited inland destination.

It is also natural you do not see or recognize tourists from Lithuania. How would you? The overall numbers of visitors is just too small to be recognizable. Lithuanians just dissapear in the sea of visitor from Germany or V4 countries . It also adds up to the fact that travel mostly happens with family by car.

A few key factors that will play a huge role from the standpoing of infrastructure in the next years:
a) For visits to Warsaw - Completion of S61 (Poland) + A5 (Lithuania). There was a time when such travel took ~11hours. Some people still remember those times and will face the future soon.
b) For visits to Krakow - Completion of S7 from Warsaw to Krakow. Arguably Krakow+Wieliczka+Tatras is the most visited tourist destination by Lithuanians. This will only add up to that.
c) For visits to Gdansk - Completion of S16. If (and when) it is completed, it will most likely become the favorite inland summer destination.


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## PovilD

Kaunas-Warsaw would become only around 50 km longer than trip to popular Lithuanian seaside resort Palanga from capital city Vilnius which is 320 km
I know Vilnius-Klaipėda motorway take 3 hours, this would mean Kaunas-Warsaw (A5, S61, S8) would probably take as short as 3 and a half hours if conditions are good.


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## geogregor

baczek333 said:


> Hm, I'd say Ireland it's actually the country which somehow busted the myths you're discussing here. I mean - Ireland itself is nothing special, I'd dare call it the most boring western European country


Apart from the coast. West of Ireland has one of the most spectacular coastline in Europe.






It is literary thousands of km long and extremely varied. I have explored it in any weather from (rare) sunny days to rainy evenings. And it is always amazing. I especially recommend counties Cork, Kerry, Galway, Mayo and Sligo. I'm sure Donegal as well but I haven't visited it yet (still waiting for a chance). 



> - the cities are typically "British" so dull, repetitive, with little old architecture to marvel at, the weather is awful, the landscape is pretty much the same all over the country, the cuisine is British as well. And suddenly Ireland is also considered a great tourist destination, thousands of people flock to this country to see some green grass and drink some average beer you can also drink everywhere else in Europe. All they needed to make themselves such a recognizable destination was to have a strong American diaspora which influenced the American culture and Hollywood which subsequently turned Ireland into a dream. Objectively speaking, Poland has much more than Ireland to offer as a tourist destination but Poland doesn't have even a fraction of the Irish cultural influence on the world (which is due to not being an English-speaking country and our American diaspora being much less relevant than the Irish one). This is something which can be improved, basically everything can become a world class tourist destination if it's advertised well enough.
> 
> Irish tourism was pretty much non-existent as long as being Irish was something people were ashamed of and tried to hide (especially in America). Only in the second half of 20th century people started to take pride in their Irish roots and suddenly Ireland turned out to be a place worth visiting and enjoying for everyone. We need the same 'awakening' for Poland. Unfortunately now we even have troubles to attract Polish Americans to visit Poland and feel a stronger connection to Poland, not to mention to make our culture part of the generic American culture like it's with the Irish culture (let's say St Paddy's day which is nowadays just an all-American feast disregarding its initially ethnic roots).


Ireland is interesting case. Yes, the weather can be "challenging" (never boring ) and cites might not be the most amazing (though Dublin is out there with major destinations for city breaks).

But it is culture and history which are relevant. Folk music, Guinness, Irish pub, narrow country lanes, ruins, sheep on the roads etc. Those images immediately come to mind when one mentions Ireland. It is partially due to promotion but more importantly due to sheer size of the diaspora and its outsize influence on the big Anglo-Saxon countries. Those images are in countless movies, adverts, posters, books, songs, family memories etc.

No amount of promotion will ever achieve the same in Poland. Zywiec will never have the pull of Guinness and Polish bars are poor relations of Irish pubs. As for landscape, Polish countryside is as dull as the dullest inland counties of Ireland and our coast is rather boring. But more importantly we lack all the other stuff which makes Ireland punching above its weight.

I studied tourism so I follow trends and advertising campaigns. Ireland and Scotland have amazingly efficient promotional machines. By comparison Polish attempts often look really cringe-worthy. But even if Poland improved its promotion it will never match Scotland or Ireland, for cultural and historic reasons. They can base their campaigns of pop-cultural icons which Poland simply lacks.

Anyway, sorry for off topic. I'll try to resist in the future 

We could move this interesting debate to the "roadside rest area" thread


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## baczek333

geogregor said:


> Those images immediately come to mind when one mentions Ireland. It is partially due to promotion but more importantly due to sheer size of the diaspora and its outsize influence on the big Anglo-Saxon countries. Those images are in countless movies, adverts, posters, books, songs, family memories etc


Yes, that was my point as well and while I don't expect us to achieve the same level, still there's room for improvement, the Witcher proved there's potential in Slavic mythology (doesn't matter true or not, every mythology as we know it today is just a pop culture creation). Poland also has a huge diaspora in anglo countries but these people contribute very little Polish culture to their countries, this could be changed.



> though Dublin is out there with major destinations for city breaks).


Again, how much of it can be attributed to genuine Dublin's attractiveness and how much to promotion and image of Dublin and Ireland created in the global pop culture?



> As for landscape, Polish countryside is as dull as the dullest inland counties of Ireland and our coast is rather boring.


How conveniently you forgot about the whole south with hills and mountains


----------



## Proterra

baczek333 said:


> We need the same 'awakening' for Poland. Unfortunately now we even have troubles to attract Polish Americans to visit Poland and feel a stronger connection to Poland, not to mention to make our culture part of the generic American culture like it's with the Irish culture (let's say St Paddy's day which is nowadays just an all-American feast disregarding its initially ethnic roots).


A lot of "American" cultural concepts and much of generic American culture actually has its origin in Polish culture, and have become so ingrained in the idea of "America" that it's difficult to even see their roots, but personally, I'd even go as far as to consider typical American culture to be an amalgamation of Anglo-Saxon and Polish culture primarily.


----------



## sponge_bob

Anyway back to roads.

Poland is somewhere between good and very good at present and most of what Poland needs to complete a 'very good' network is now under construction/tender with perhaps 500km yet to start including completing a Warsaw ring and the S6 which are not yet tendered. The end of the beginning is clearly visible now. Anything to be added on top of that unstarted 500km is really in order to take a very good network up to an excellent network, some widening will have to be undertaken as well.

Average speed zones are a good way to manage hotspots with high collision rates. You will always have a few not least from transit traffic in a hurry.

Welcome to _first world problems_ eh!!!


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## dominobb

sponge_bob said:


> and the S6 which are not yet tendered


The tender for S6 Koszalin - Słupsk was announced today.


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## Chris80678

A visual inspection of S7 from Warsaw to Grójec:


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## MichiH

yep, roads connect people! They shorten the distance between places and ease the possibilities for short trips. This kind of travels reduce reservation and prejudice. That's - beside the economical aspect - why I love seeing new road constructions 

I remember when my parents and me explored the Thuringian Forest in 1991. Visiting the "DDR" where our money was thrown down the drain to build up the "new states" (neue Länder). Where the strange "Ossis" lived. I checked the map and demanded heading to Eisenach but my parents refused it because it was too far away for a day trip on those very congested roads back then. And we never returned because of the bad experience although Thuringia was just 150km away.

Things have changed meanwhile - there is even a Autobahn, A71  I long A71 section was opened the very day when I returned from my second trip to Thuringia - in 2005!

btw: I've also been to Krakow for two nights in 2019. I only know one other non-Polish person who ever traveled to Poland for vacation.


----------



## Chris80678

Visual inspection of A1 from Tuszyn to Piotrków Trybunalski:






A photo of Ursynów East exit:

Photo posted by @bronco10 in the Polish forum


----------



## sponge_bob

dominobb said:


> The tender for S6 Koszalin - Słupsk was announced today.


Hadn't seen Kemos latest map.


----------



## Cookiefabric

@Moloch @Kemo (and the 2 others, which i can't tag): I just want to say thank for all the effort you guys put in there -- Creating, maintaining & updating the map at http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/


----------



## sponge_bob

Actually the last S6 section is a strange colour, yellow, is that a PPP section????



http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/nowa-mapa.png





Cookiefabric said:


> I just want to say thank for all the effort you guys put in there


and to @Kirt93 for his wikipedia article . The work that the three guys ...and the 2 not mentioned.. put in across platforms is probably worth €250m in inward investment a year to Poland...if not more. And they have those roads loaded onto OSM ready to strip out the construction tag on opening day as well. 









Highways in Poland - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Cookiefabric

If I did understand correctly: Just "build" -- the designs are already made (otherwise it's Design & Build)


----------



## sponge_bob

geogregor said:


> From having very few road tunnels Poland is building quite a few of them at the same time.


Yep. They even sent a drone down one this week, great piloting this dude.  See the post on facebook dated 30 / 09/ 21.

This here is the Swina tunnel in the far north west of Poland which is the first biggie in Europe that was drilled with a Chinese TBM.



https://m.facebook.com/tunelswinoujscie/posts




Not 100% sure about this but i think they, Porr, finally broke through last week and that they did this deliberately to stop excess vibrations.

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=972033026718455&id=254607455127686&set=a.349950035593427&source=48&refid=13&__tn__=+>










The drone shows a bone dry tunnel inside, don't worry.  This is also the 2nd widest tunnel _drilled_ through very soft ground anywhere in Europe at 13.5m outside diameter and 12m inside diameter as far as I know. Cost, €50m a km when complete. If it were a 2+2 it would cost €100m a km.  The Elbe tunnel 4th tube was the widest ever of this sort in Europe. 

Previous ones were generally cast onshore in segments and sunk into an excavated trench in the sea or a river bed. The Fehmarn road/rail tunnel will be built that way for example.


----------



## Chris80678

Tomorrow (4th October 2021) @11.00am is the official opening of the S7 expressway from Szczepanowice to Widoma (Słomniki bypass) (13km long) by the Polish President Andrzej Duda:



Oficjalna strona Prezydenta Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej / Dla mediów / Zapowiedzi prasowe / Udział Prezydenta RP w oficjalnym otwarciu drogi ekspresowej S7 na odcinku Szczepanowice – Widoma



Sadly it will be an isolated section of the S7 until it gets connected to the S7 expressway at the border of Holy Cross and Lesser Poland provinces (at Moczydło) via Miechów in 2023 ???? and to the Kraków eastern and northern bypasses in 2024 ????


----------



## The Wild Boy

Chris80678 said:


> Tomorrow (4th October 2021) @11.00am is the official opening of the S7 expressway from Szczepanowice to Widoma (Słomniki bypass) by the Polish President Andrzej Duda:
> 
> 
> 
> Oficjalna strona Prezydenta Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej / Dla mediów / Zapowiedzi prasowe / Udział Prezydenta RP w oficjalnym otwarciu drogi ekspresowej S7 na odcinku Szczepanowice – Widoma
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly it will be an isolated section of the S7 until it gets connected to the S7 expressway at the border of Holy Cross and Lesser Poland provinces (at Moczydlo) via Miechow in 2023 ???? and to the Krakow eastern and Northern bypasses in 2024 ????


And with that Prague and Warsaw will be connected by a 100% "motorway" connection?


----------



## Chris80678

The Wild Boy said:


> And with that Prague and Warsaw will be connected by a 100% "motorway" connection?


No, as the S7 will not connect Warsaw to Prague (the S8 expressway eventually may do so, depending on what the Czechs have planned on their side of the border)

I did say that this section of S7 will be an isolated section not connected to rest of the expressway network

The S7 will eventually cross from Poland into Slovakia 🇸🇰 far to the east of Prague

I think you're getting the S7 expressway mixed up with the S8 expressway and (as yet uncompleted) A1 motorway


----------



## MichiH

The Wild Boy said:


> And with that Prague and Warsaw will be connected by a 100% "motorway" connection?


Not at all! The section is not connected to any other motorway: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/50.2597/20.0319

It's S7, not A1!


----------



## Tonik1

The Wild Boy said:


> And with that Prague and Warsaw will be connected by a 100% "motorway" connection?


S7 with Slovakia and Budapest in far future.


----------



## Chris80678

Exactly 💯 @Tonik1 

As you say, that's way off in the future though


----------



## Patrako

Tonik1 said:


> S7 with Slovakia and Budapest in far future.


they haven't decided if the road between Rabka and Chyżne is going to build as expressway, or GP-class road


----------



## sponge_bob

Surely Warsaw-Prague will be done when the A1 is finally upgraded next year and again when the S3 is finished along with the Czech side of the border?? The S7 corridor leads to Slovakia.


----------



## Chris80678

Surely it would make sense to have S7 expressway between Rabka and the Slovakian border (along a new corridor avoiding Chyżne to the east or west)?


----------



## sponge_bob

Chris80678 said:


> Surely it would make sense to upgrade the DK7 between Rabka and the Slovakian border to expressway?


If the Slovaks were to do the same then possibly yes. However Slovakia is very slow doing anything which is understandable given the amount of serious Slovak mountains in the way of everything there. 

So far the Slovaks _seem to intend to connect_ full 2+2 roads to the S19 and S1 in Poland only.


----------



## Lombat

Via Ostrava google shows 7:37h, mayby 7:20h with the Prerov short section of D1.

Via Wrocław time drops below 7h.

Adding S3 and D11 will probably make this time about 6:20h, and 6:00h with S5 Wrocław - Bolków













Chris80678 said:


> Surely it would make sense to upgrade the DK7 between Rabka and the Slovakian border to expressway?


For now DK7 goes through villages and cities close to the buildings, so it needs to be built in new corridor.

I whoud say, that if we are able to do it as the expressway, lets do this.

Near-borders sections usually have less traffic due to almost no local movement, but we build cross-borders motorways and expressways as at least 2x2 roads, if there is a motorway / expressway on both sides of the border. 

I think that even if our GDDKiA make the preliminary design on 2x2 S road and gain DŚU(_Environmental permit_) on that, they will rather build only half of it (1x2)just to make the bypasses.
When our south neighbours decide to make 2x2, then it will be time to construct the second carriageway.


----------



## Tonik1

Chris80678 said:


> Surely it would make sense to upgrade the DK7 between Rabka and the Slovakian border to expressway?


IMO it would be best solution. There is already huge traffic towards Zakopane which is mostly tourist-good road towards border with Slovakia will probably change preference for transit traffic towards Vienna/Austria, Hungary and Balkans (and also for example heavy traffic during summer towards Adriatic coast)-and most of it is using A1 and czech D1 going south now-adding extra kilometers. Some toursits normally going to Zakopane may also go to the slovak resorts. Krakow airport is also popular among people in northern Slovakia.

It's worth to mention that Slovak side is also very tourist-with aquaparks (some being one of the biggest in Europe like Tatralandia, Aqua City Poprad), and High Tatras- mountain region with all year long tourism.


----------



## Patrako

Chris80678 said:


> Surely it would make sense to upgrade the DK7 between Rabka and the Slovakian border to expressway?


There were also ideas of making an extension of DK47 from Nowy Targ to the border in Jurgów, but i have no idea about current status of that project


----------



## Chris80678

Next year (2022) following a study we will find out what DK7 between Rabka and Chyżne will be like and it's potential costs:



https://conadrogach.pl/informacje/w-przyszlym-roku-dowiemy-sie-jaka-bedzie-dk7-rabka-chyzne.html


----------



## Kemo

The variants (first approach) have already been published.



Spotkanie informacyjne – Budowa drogi dwujezdniowej klasy GP (na parametrach klasy S) w ciągu DK7 na odc. Rabka-Chyżne


----------



## dawid24

DK7(S7) Rabka-Chyżne length of the tunnels .













Tunnels

W I - 620m.
W II - 532m. , 1450m. , 656m.
W III - 2402m. , 570m. , 3389m. , 1934m. , 878m.
W IV - 429m. , 1192m. , 548m.
W V - 652m.


----------



## Wolfiq

Chris80678 said:


> Surely it would make sense to have S7 expressway between Rabka and the Slovakian border (along a new corridor avoiding Chyżne to the east or west)?


There were plans to do that some 30-40 years ago, but that was before Slovakia was independent country. In 2001 they decided to have direct connection with Poland on west, bypassing Czechia and S7 is lower priority now. What makes sense from their point of view, because Bratislava is on the west.


----------



## Chris80678

A video of S19 from Zdziary to Lasy Janowskie:






Hopefully due to open shortly


----------



## Patrako

Chris80678 said:


> Hopefully due to open shortly


A few days ago Huptys (the press secretary of MI) tweeted that Minister Adamczyk is going to open a fragment of s19 on friday. He probably meant that one


----------



## Chris80678

Patrako said:


> A few days ago Huptys (the press secretary of MI) tweeted that Minister Adamczyk is going to open a fragment of s19 on friday. He probably meant that one


Yes, I saw that tweet










S19 Zdziary - Lasy Janowskie may open this Friday (8th October 2021)

As for the other nearing complete S19 sections south of Zdziary to Rudnik nad Sanem and further south to Nisko Południe who knows ????


----------



## Kirt93

S7 Szczepanowice – Widoma is open:






*____*

The last short bit of the Nazi German concrete on Kijewo interchange:








(by @JacYk)

has been closed to traffic. Therefore, no more fragments of A6 with the pre-WWII surface are open to traffic anymore!

Thanks to this change, about two hundred meters of DK18 (within the border crossing area) are now the last remaining fragment of a Reichautobahn in Poland which is still open to traffic:


----------



## Chris80678

A visualisation of S7 Widoma - Kraków:






The interchanges in Kraków look complex to build


----------



## Tonik1

Chris80678 said:


> A visualisation of S7 Widoma - Krakow:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The interchanges in Krakow look complex to build



I really wonder how will they solve problem of interchanges around Balice Airport ( A4 expansion, S52, Trasa Balicka-new road towards airport from the city) and S7 new trail towards Krakow from Zakopane. Very little space.


----------



## Chris80678

Tonik1 said:


> I really wonder how will they solve problem of interchanges around Balice Airport ( A4 expansion, S52, new road towards airport from the city) and S7 new trail towards Krakow. Very little space.


Good point

Current construction on S52 Kraków Northern Bypass:


----------



## Patrako

Chris80678 said:


> interchanges in Kraków complex to build


Thankfully it is going to be built by a competent company


----------



## Chris80678

Some recent photos of S19 (Kraśnik bypass):

Photos posted by @czaro13 in the Polish forum




























S19 Lublin Węglin - Niedrzwica may open next Monday (11.10.21) - this is has not been officially confirmed however


----------



## Chris80678

Some photos of S19 Lasy Janowskie - Zdziary (due to open on Monday 11.10.21)

Pedestrian overpass:










Road overpass:










View from the above overpass (looking north towards Lublin):










Animal overpass (looking south towards Rzeszów):










Below is the overpass over the Bukowa river. At this spot, it marks the border between the Podkarpacie and Lubelskie regions:










Roundabout and sign on the slip road at Zdziary exit (Lublin-bound):



















Roundabout on the slip road at Zdziary exit (Rzeszów-bound):










Photos posted by @polakk in the Polish forum


----------



## Chris80678

A video of Niemodlin bypass (September 2021):


----------



## Kemo

Yesterday evening, drivers using the newly opened section of S7 north of Kraków (driving northbound) were stuck in a huge (about 1.5h) traffic jam.
All because of faulty traffic organisation on the Szczepanowice junction:








OpenStreetMap


OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.




www.openstreetmap.org




On the northern roundabout, these driving S->N must give way to these driving N->S

Here, on our forum, we forecasted this problem a long time ago and asked GDDKiA whether they are going to solve it somehow. (Which can be done in a similar way as on another S7 junction: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/49.64683/19.90665)
But GDDKiA replied that according to their traffic model, the traffic jam should not exceed 1.5 minutes.
Well...


----------



## metacatfry

hopefully that reply from GDDKiA was either a lie or a case of miscommunication, not an inadvertent glimpse into the bad state of the tools in use by them.


----------



## geogregor

https://twitter.com/GDDKiA_Warszawa


----------



## Chris80678

A video of recently opened S19 Zdziary - Lasy Janowskie:






In opposite direction (Lasy Janowskie - Zdziary):






A bonus video of S19 Janów Lubelski - Zdziary:






Videos posted by @Toye in the Polish forum


----------



## Patrako

I haven't seen any posts here but this is kinda important.
Today on 12 am the A1 between Piotrków Trybunalski and Kamieńsk was converted from 2x1 to 2x2. It was the last part of A1 consturction site narrowed to just one lane. They also "opened" the Kamieńsk Junction (the traffic uses the whole trumpet with the only diffrence being that there are stop signs in spots where traffic from kamieńsk joins the A1 due to lack of additional lanes).

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1447880400383225858


----------



## Chris80678

A video of Ursynów Tunnel on S2 Warsaw Southern Bypass:






Video posted by @insi1 in the Polish forum


----------



## Kemo

Patrako said:


> I haven't seen any posts here but this is kinda important.
> Today on 12 am the A1 between Piotrków Trybunalski and Kamieńsk was converted from 2x1 to 2x2. *It was the last part of A1 consturction site narrowed to just one lane.*


I think there are still narrowings to 1 lane at Częstochowa-North junction and somewhere around Piotrków Trybunalski South.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Apparently GDDKiA underestimated the complexity of getting opening permits for a major tunnel like the one in Ursynów. Last year the sentiment seemed that the tunnel could open in late 2020, not long after civil works were finished. Here we are, a year later, with the tunnel still not open to traffic because not all permits have yet been received. 

The EU tunnel directive is pretty complex, especially for a first-time tunnel building nation like Poland. The approval of operating procedures, safety standards, safety equipment, testing, training the fire department and then getting all the opening permits takes quite a bit of time. 

This was also an issue in the Netherlands in the mid-2000s when the first tunnels built under the Directive 2004/54/EC were completed. Procedures and approvals were not standardized at that time. Additionally, Dutch legislation translated the EU directive to apply to every single tunnel over 250 meters in length. The original 2004 directive only applies to tunnels longer than 500 meters and part of a TEN-T corridor (this does not equal E-roads!)


----------



## Chris80678

A video of S19 from Nisko to Podgórze exits (as yet unopened):






S19 from Podgórze to Kamień (as yet unopened):






S19 from Kamień to Sokołów Małopolski (as yet unopened):


----------



## Chris80678

An article about S5 between Bydgoszcz and Szubin:









Budowa drogi S5. Miało być otwarcie trasy na Poznań, będzie zmiana organizacji ruchu - zdjęcie nr 1


Pierwszy tydzień listopada to na teraz najbardziej prawdopodobny termin udostępnienia dla ruchu całej drogi S5 między Bydgoszczą a Poznaniem - dowiedziała się 'Wyborcza'. Oficjalnie drogowcy informują tylko o mniejszej zmianie organizacji ruchu od piątku (15 października).




bydgoszcz.wyborcza.pl





The key piece of info here is this:

As of 13th October, the contractors of the S5 road section between the Bydgoszcz Błonie and Szubin Północ junctions have announced their readiness to make almost all of the new roadways available

Unofficially, we learned that the opening was postponed to the *beginning* of *November,* it is still *unlikely* that this date will be accelerated, so that drivers can use the newly built roads during All Saints' Day. - At this stage of works, I cannot confirm this term - says Julian Drob, spokesman for the Bydgoszcz branch of the General Directorate for National Roads and Motorways. And it refers to yesterday's official (October 13) announcement. In it we read: "*The opening of the section of the main route will take place within the next few weeks"*


----------



## Chris80678

An excellent photo of MOPs Janów Lubelski Wschód and Janów Lubelski Zachód on S19:










Photo posted by @Lukiz in the Polish forum


----------



## PovilD

Cookiefabric said:


> ^^ Germany might be a serious challenger


I imagine Germany as country with hilly forests and fields in between 

Poland is just flat with few forests  ...but yeah U.S. Midwest is really flat too  I think this part of CEE really resemble Midwest in many characteristics, like terrain and population density.


----------



## Kemo

Patrako said:


> I might be wrong, but i think this is the first natioanl road to be upgraded to a highway


The first one was probably DK88 Strzelce Opolskie - Gliwice almost 20 years ago.


----------



## The Wild Boy

Any updates of A2? What sections are U/C? Any pictures? 

When is it estimated to reach the Bellarussian border and the town Brest? 

OSM doesn't show the route where the A2 will go, and it actually shows that it ends somewhere near Ryczołek. 

I assume Belarus has plans to extend it's M1 (motorway???) as well. 

Warsaw and Minsk are not that far away from being 100% connected with a modern 4 lane (motorway???) road.


----------



## Chris80678

The Wild Boy said:


> Any updates of A2? What sections are U/C? Any pictures?
> 
> When is it estimated to reach the Bellarussian border and the town Brest?
> 
> OSM doesn't show the route where the A2 will go, and it actually shows that it ends somewhere near Ryczołek.
> 
> I assume Belarus has plans to extend it's M1 (motorway???) as well.
> 
> Warsaw and Minsk are not that far away from being 100% connected with a modern 4 lane (motorway???) road.


Visit this website:



http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/



As you can see there is currently no construction going on A2 east of Warsaw. It has a lower priority than other roads in Poland.

The A2 may not reach the Belorussian border and Brest until long after 2024.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Chris80678 said:


> The A2 may not reach the Belorussian border and Brest until long after 2024.


Given an average construction time of 3 years, and no segment of A2 at the Belarus border under construction, it's safe to say it won't happen by 2024.


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Given an average construction time of 3 years, and no segment of A2 at the Belarus border under construction, it's safe to say it won't happen by 2024.


There is little chance of that happening before 2030, probably later. 

As Chris80678 says, it is not priority for Poland. And looking at how things are going in Belarus it is unlikely to change.


----------



## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> Given an average construction time of 3 years


Competent construction companies do it in 2 years.


----------



## PovilD

geogregor said:


> There is little chance of that happening before 2030, probably later.
> 
> As Chris80678 says, it is not priority for Poland. And looking at how things are going in Belarus it is unlikely to change.


Moscow-Minsk-Warsaw-Berlin full standard motorway probably after 2030  My optimistic guess around 2040s  We will see.


----------



## sponge_bob

Kemo said:


> Competent construction companies do it in 2 years.


The average contract is 1 year design ten 2 year build. So both 3 and 2 years are correct Unless you hit a mountain or a swamp.


----------



## Cookiefabric

The Trans-European route E30 is currently from The Hague (NL) untill the German/Polish border at Frankfurt an der Oder a complete motorway (Since 2019!)
Once you cross the border, there is a chunk/gap of about 3 km of DK2 ("main road/highway"), but does lack the motorway standards. I think that this little piece won't be fixed in the near future

After the gap, the road is an motorway/freeflow expressway until the city limits of Kałuszyn ( the S2 tunnel will be opened after all the testing is done) up to 2025.
The last section from Biala is already in design stage (pre-design show that 90% of the DK68 will be upgraded into the A2), however it might be taking up to 2025/2026 before the last tender will be announced (Build or Design & build)


----------



## bartek76

Cookiefabric said:


> The Trans-European route E30 is currently from The Hague (NL) untill the German/Polish border at Frankfurt an der Oder a complete motorway (Since 2019!)
> Once you cross the border, there is a chunk/gap of about 3 km of DK2 ("main road/highway"), but does lack the motorway standards. I think that this little piece won't be fixed in the near future


This "main road/highway" looks like this








Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.com





So not calling it a "motorway" is semantics from pratical point of view


----------



## MichiH

sponge_bob said:


> The average contract is 1 year design ten 2 year build. So *both 3 and 2 years are correct * Unless you hit a mountain or a swamp.


Nope. Read the post carefully again:



ChrisZwolle said:


> Given an average *construction time of 3 years*, and no segment of A2 at the Belarus border under construction, it's safe to say it won't happen by 2024.


The "western" sections are contracted with completion date in 2024, but the "eastern" sections up to the Belarus border are not yet contracted.


----------



## Chris80678

It would be more advantageous to get DK2 between German / Polish border and where A2 begins properly to full motorway standard (which it may already be?)

Why is this part not signed and designated as A2?

Is it because the border checkpoint buildings are still there at Swiecko?


----------



## Cookiefabric

@BARTEK: I partly agree with you, like: lanes are 3,5 / 3,75m width, Crash barriers are in the middle, hard shoulders are there (but at some places very small). But it's just a bit substandard (which does perfect qualify for klassy GP) -- Fix those substandard point and there you have it: A road with modern Motorway standards (Klassy A)

This section has a limit of 70 km/h but then a truck decide to leave to fuel station area, it might sometimes need the 2 lanes for a short section -- leaving other vehicles no other choice than smashing the breaks. That's situation you could expect on a general highway but not on a modern European Motorway.

@Chris80678 In a nutshell (from what I saw in 2020):
-> the border station area
-> Exit and merger lanes at the fuel station (direction of Germany)
-> Wezel/Exit Swiecko is very substandard, needs to upgrades to modern standards.
-> Shoulder widening at some places. The Polish Klassy A requires a shoulder width of 3M


----------



## Chris80678

@Chris80678 In a nutshell (from what I saw in 2020):
-> the border station area
-> Exit and merger lanes at the fuel station (direction of Germany)
-> Wezel/Exit Swiecko is very substandard, needs to upgrades to modern standards.
-> Shoulder widening at some places. The Polish Klassy A requires a shoulder width of 3M
[/QUOTE]

There seems to be no rush to remedy this section as it's still in blue on Siskom's map

Again, this part of DK2 probably not a priority for Poland


----------



## rakcancer

Puritan said:


> *Photos of S3 ( Kamienna Góra - Lubawka):*
> Polish border with Czechia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> source ( and more photos):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S3 Legnica (A4) - Lubawka zadanie IV
> 
> 
> Zaprojektowanie i wybudowanie drogi S3 Legnica (A4) - Lubawka zadanie IV od węzła Kamienna Góra Północ (z węzłem) do granicy państwa, o długości ok. 15,3 km
> 
> 
> 
> s3-kamiennagora-granicapanstwa.pl


Pretty sudden end of pavement in Czechia...


----------



## Chris80678

rakcancer said:


> Pretty sudden end of pavement in Czechia...


Yep, over to you Czechia


----------



## sponge_bob

Chris80678 said:


> Yep, over to you Czechia


You will be waiting at least 6 years though. Allegedly they are planning to finish their end in 2027 and _the Poles are not supposed to be there yet_ either according to the Czech Minister of Transport. 









Ministr Havlíček: Musíme zrychlit přípravu dokončení celé D11, jinak vzniknou dopravní komplikace







www.mdcr.cz







> *According to the Minister of Transport, *_construction of the remaining sections needs to be accelerated,_* as the Polish side will reach the border between 2023 and 2024 and traffic complications may arise*


----------



## metacatfry

I assume those two km of pristine carless motorway from Lubawka to the border will become a popular racing track for the local youth


----------



## rakcancer

I wonder if it wouldn't make more sense to build that little connector road - it is less than 500m.


----------



## Chris80678

rakcancer said:


> I wonder if it wouldn't make more sense to build that little connector road - it is less than 500m.
> View attachment 2312043


That would be the most sensible solution. Plus it takes transit traffic away from Lubawka. I'm sure that Lubawka would appreciate a bypass. Without the connector road traffic is forced onto DW369 at Lubawka exit and has to go through the town's southern suburbs

Is completion by March 2022 (according to Siskom's map) realistic?

Latest project photos can be found here:






S3 Legnica (A4) - Lubawka zadanie IV


Zaprojektowanie i wybudowanie drogi S3 Legnica (A4) - Lubawka zadanie IV od węzła Kamienna Góra Północ (z węzłem) do granicy państwa, o długości ok. 15,3 km



s3-kamiennagora-granicapanstwa.pl


----------



## Patrako

Chris80678 said:


> Is completion by March 2022 (according to Siskom's map) realistic?


According to contact website their have done nearly 50% of the job (they received ZRID at the end of August last year). Knowing Mosty Łódź, i think they will make it in time


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## geogregor

Construction of S-7 in Northern Mazovia, in other words more of European equivalent of American Midwest  

https://twitter.com/GDDKiA_Olsztyn


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## rakcancer

It is so Midwest straight that there should be 200km/h speed limit here or no speed limit like it was in Montana till recently.


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## Kemo

Kemo said:


> Competent construction companies do it in 2 years.


...and Budimex does it in 16 months 

S19, section Łowisko - Sokołów Małopolski North.
Construction permit was issued in July 2020.



-SzaLeJot- said:


> 3030.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3031.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3032. widok na w. Sokołów
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3033.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3034. widok na WD 42
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3035. WD 42
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cdn ...


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## Cookiefabric

Poke to Kemo (  ) :

Unfortunately, this is also Budimex:
Picture not coming through -- more available* at the project website: http://s61-wysokie-raczki.pl/content/sesja-lotnicza-wrzesień-2021

Sept 2021 ; Wysokie Raczki
The contract was signed in July 2018 and was meant to be open for traffic last July. (29 months + 2x3 months winter break)

* Project websites doesn't age well - be aware (especially who is trying to read back from 2025+ )


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## Patrako

Cookiefabric said:


> 2x3 months winter break


Remember that they can work during those months, and most construction companies kept working during some part of this period.
Article (in polish)








Drogowcy zakończyli pracowitą przerwę zimową


W tym roku zima była łaskawa dla drogowców. Wielu wykonawców wykorzystało ten czas, w którym zazwyczaj zawieszane są roboty w terenie, na dalsze prowadzenie prac. Jednak postępy podczas zimy to nie tylko prace budowlane. GDDKiA podsumowało,




www.wnp.pl


----------



## Kemo

Cookiefabric said:


> Poke to Kemo (  ) :
> 
> Unfortunately, this is also Budimex:
> Picture not coming through -- more available* at the project website: http://s61-wysokie-raczki.pl/content/sesja-lotnicza-wrzesień-2021
> 
> Sept 2021 ; Wysokie Raczki
> The contract was signed in July 2018 and was meant to be open for traffic last July. (29 months + 2x3 months winter break)
> 
> * Project websites doesn't age well - be aware (especially who is trying to read back from 2025+ )


It is a design & build contract.
We shouldn't blame the construction companies for delays caused by offices issuing admnistrative decisions.
Construction permit for this section was issued in October 2019.
So this is 25 months of construction so far and it is almost finished.


----------



## geogregor

Kemo said:


> ...and Budimex does it in 16 months
> 
> S19, section Łowisko - Sokołów Małopolski North.
> Construction permit was issued in July 2020.


It must have very favorable geotechnical conditions and no major structures.


----------



## Chris80678

geogregor said:


> It must have very favorable geotechnical conditions and no major structures.


Correct, mainly flat plains between Łowisko and Sokołów Małopolski with no major rivers or railways to bridge over. No tunnels needed either.


----------



## Chris80678

A nice video of the recently-opened western carriageway of the A1 motorway between the Radomsko exit and the border of the Łódzkie and Śląskie voivodeships.

From November 3, drivers heading to the south of Poland have 3 lanes at their disposal, i.e. the entire width of the road on a 7 km section in the Łódź Province.

This also applies to 6 km of the motorway in the Śląskie Voivodeship, from the voivodeship border towards Częstochowa.






By the end of 2022 the entire A1 from Tuszyn to Częstochowa Północ should be completed and open.


----------



## Lankosher

Polkowice bypass on the S3 corridor has been opened to traffic this morning.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1458373304893444100
S3 is now stretching more than 400 km in one piece.


----------



## Kielbus




----------



## Chris80678

A video of S3 Polkowice bypass as well as other sections of the S3. Plus it features a history of the past and current ongoing construction of S3 south of Bolków and in Świnoujście:


----------



## PovilD

Kielbus said:


>


Does Poland have plans to use these signs?










I must say that...
Poland seem to look not very innovative in terms of road signs. Correct if I wrong but there are only little improvements since 1980s. I don't know if there are sentiments involved, etc.


----------



## Patrako

PovilD said:


> Does Poland have plans to use these signs?
> 
> View attachment 2337292
> 
> 
> I must say that...
> Poland seem to look not very innovative in terms of road signs. Correct if I wrong but there are only little improvements since 1980s. I don't know if there are sentiments involved, etc.


They strated putting these signs on interchanges, but in this case i don't think it would help, if you are so dumb, to make a U-Turn while entering a highway, you problem don't care about signs.


----------



## PovilD

Patrako said:


> They strated putting this signs on interchanges, but in this case i don't think it would help, if you are so dumb, to make a U-Turn while entering a highway, you problem don't care about signs.


It's interesting to see how these signs look in Poland. Do you have photos?


----------



## rakcancer

Kielbus said:


>


It looks like someone wanted to commit suicide and then changed his mind...


----------



## Patrako

PovilD said:


> It's interesting to see how these signs look in Poland. Do you have photos?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1412415804105187336


----------



## The Wild Boy

Patrako said:


> They strated putting these signs on interchanges, but in this case i don't think it would help, if you are so dumb, to make a U-Turn while entering a highway, you problem don't care about signs.


Moral of the story:
Don't let dumb people and people with mental issues drive at all. Where are the laws?


----------



## The Wild Boy

Yeah i agree with you all. 

There can be other ways of halving road accidents and preventing Induced demand. It doesn't always have to be the public transport, but surely improving it is the way to go. 

A little ot, but street design matters as well. 

Not Just Bikes has a perfect explanation of this:





Now don't get me wrong, I'm not comparing America with Poland here, or saying that Poland has something similar to America or is going that way. 

All that I'm saying is that Poland has to learn from other EU countries and since it's in a process of shaping up and developing, especially with it's motorway network it has to aim to go in the right directions. More pedestrian and bike friendly cities, and less reliance on cars in cities as well. And of course the other stuff we have been talking about. 

Eventually we shall see where Poland goes in the next 20 years. More investments are always a good and welcomed thing, but only if they are aimed at a right way that makes sense.


----------



## PovilD

sponge_bob said:


> This year in Ireland the biggest single fatal road accident was caused by a Polish bloke who committed suicide by car and took out a Kurdish family with him. That one accident will be over 2% of all driver deaths and probably over 2% of all deaths overall in Ireland in 2021 but it was totally random and almost impossible to avoid no matter what anyone did.


The country is probably on a good path if only few very odd events take largest toll. Like I heard in Oslo, Norway there was only one freak accident with road deaths last year.

Vision zero probably remains just a vision, since people can go at deadly speeds due to the car design, no matter what infrastructure is put in place, or just fall off from some odd place.

I think, the problem we must solve with traffic is when accidents are systematic and avoidable with better measures.


The Wild Boy said:


> Yeah i agree with you all.
> 
> There can be other ways of halving road accidents and preventing Induced demand. It doesn't always have to be the public transport, but surely improving it is the way to go.
> 
> A little ot, but street design matters as well.
> 
> Not Just Bikes has a perfect explanation of this:


Not Just Bikes for me is very eye-opening project for me. I've found it relatively recently along with Adam Something. Europe model with trains and bicycles is great ...and motorways have place there too  Just avoid building stroads


----------



## Patrako

The Wild Boy said:


> Cleary more strict checks on how drivers get their license, more restrictions, strict law enforcements, more speed camera, more police controls?? What else should be done to nail these numbers?


There are few things
1. There's a bill increasing fines for breaking traffic rules (max fine for going more than 30 kmh over the speed limited is going to incresed from 200 zł (50 USD) to 800zł (195 USD); it was supposed to go up to 1500 pln (364 USD) but the goverment has decided to lower it)
2. There was a goverment run fund acting as subsidy for safety-oriented investments made by local authorities.
3. There are plans rebuilt many of the most dangerous roads (for ex. DK10 Bydgoszcz-Toruń often refered to as a ,, Death Road " is going to be replaced by S10)


----------



## PovilD

Patrako said:


> There are few things
> 1. There's a bill increasing fines for breaking traffic rules (max fine for going more than 30 kmh over the speed limited is going to incresed from 200 zł (50 USD) to 800zł (195 USD); it was supposed to go up to 1500 pln (364 USD) but the goverment has decided to lower it)
> 2. There was a goverment run fund acting as subsidy for safety-oriented investments made by local authorities.
> 3. There are plans rebuilt many of the most dangerous roads (for ex. DK10 Bydgoszcz-Toruń often refered to as a ,, Death Road " is going to be replaced by S10)


Do you have plans for refurbishing existing 2X2 DK roads? I'm not talking about sections where S-roads are planned.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Bikes and low traffic residential areas and city centers have their place, but the Netherlands also shows the limits of this model. The vast majority of travel in the Netherlands remains by car and there is a continued need for motorway capacity expansion. Railroad expansion has done absolutely nothing to reduce motorway traffic.


----------



## Patrako

PovilD said:


> Do you have plans for refurbishing existing 2X2 DK roads? I'm not talking about sections where S-roads are planned.


The fund i mentioned before includes subsiding cost of bulding overpases, rebulding juctions, adding Collector-Distrubutor roads etc; they can be used to refurbish existing 2x2 roads.
The new PBDK (the govermental program for road construction) also includes bulding some DK 2x2 roads in Expressway standard (something like DK14-bis in Łódź)
There is also another fund called ,,the 100 bypasses program" which, as the name suggests, was created to build bypasses of 100 cities in Poland


----------



## The Wild Boy

ChrisZwolle said:


> Bikes and low traffic residential areas and city centers have their place, but the Netherlands also shows the limits of this model. The vast majority of travel in the Netherlands remains by car and there is a continued need for motorway capacity expansion. Railroad expansion has done absolutely nothing to reduce motorway traffic.


Yes, but at least there's an alternative. 

Someone may sit in traffic jams, get frustrated of it, next time that person may take the train. 

There are clear advantages here. I understand the whole situation with the Netherlands. 60% of the population in the Netherlands uses the railway, that's an underestimated number. 

Plus we're trying to omit Co2 emissions and fight global warming, aren't we? We can't shape our future with 12 lane motorways. 

In fact, reducing road lanes will only contribute more for public transport usage. I'm not saying we have to get rid entirely of motorways, they have to exist of course. But this whole expansion (widening) of motorways isn't always going to bring a positive impact.


----------



## PovilD

ChrisZwolle said:


> Bikes and low traffic residential areas and city centers have their place, but the Netherlands also shows the limits of this model. The vast majority of travel in the Netherlands remains by car and there is a continued need for motorway capacity expansion. Railroad expansion has done absolutely nothing to reduce motorway traffic.


There are limits everywhere. I don't know any country that would compete with The Netherlands in terms of traffic organizing. Nordic countries may be close. There are things to be done better in other countries.
East Europe sometimes lacks proper railway network even at national level, not even talking about international train travel. With better train coverage, car would remain important, but there will also be viable alternatives. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-car. It's just traffic organizing that sometimes boggles me.

I can understand motorway up to 4-5 lanes in one direction. Larger motorways are signaling me bad urban planning or just overpopulation


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Wild Boy said:


> 60% of the population in the Netherlands uses the railway, that's an underestimated number.


What? Maybe once a year? The modal share of railways is around 9%.



PovilD said:


> I can understand motorway up to 4-5 lanes in one direction. Larger motorways is signaling me bad urban planning or just overpopulation


The Netherlands does begin to get overpopulated, though in a less chaotic manner than developing countries. Population projections over the past 30 years have been too low, reaching a projected population in less than half the time they thought it would be. And this is mostly through migration, i.e. the population growth is mainly in the age range of people who have mobility needs like cars (instead of baby's through natural growth). This explains why road traffic and motorway traffic in particular has grown so substantially since the early 1990s.


----------



## Kirt93

*Most busy sections of 1x2 roads – comparison 2020 vs 2015.

Road upgrade or construction of a relevant highway section:*
Constructed
Ongoing construction
Ongoing design as part of a design-build contract
Ongoing design-build tender
Part of "Road Construction Plan until 2033" – completion realistic in years 2026 – 2028
Part of "Road Construction Plan until 2033" – completion realistic in years 2029 – 2033
Not included in "Road Construction Plan until 2033"

*AADT 28k - 36k*:
*2020:*

*1. DK44 *near Kraków (south-western approach to A4):* 36.0k*
*2. DK9 *near Rzeszów (northern approach to A4):* 33.8k, 26.3k*
*3. DK94* near Kraków (north-western approach to S52): *28.7k. *(Reconstruction to 2x2 on this section is ongoing.)
*4. DK19* near Lublin (northern approach to S12): *28.4k, 27.0k. *(Design-build contract for S19 is ongoing.)
*5. DK94* eastern entrance to Rzeszów (2+2 profile, reduced to 1x2 near intersections): *28.3k*
*6. DK20 *in Żukowo (near Gdańsk):* 28.2k. *(Design-build contracts for S6 Tricity 2nd bypass + DK20 dual-carriageway Żukowo bypass are ongoing.)
*7. DK10* in Lubicz (near Toruń): *28.0k*
*2015:*

*1. DK5 near Poznań (southern approach to A2): 30.2k. *(S5 on this section was opened in 2019.)
*2. **DK4* eastern entrance to Rzeszów (2+2 profile, reduced to 1x2 near intersections): *28.0k. *(A4 on this section was opened in 2016. Regardless, the traffic on the old DK(9)4 has already now returned to the pre-A4 levels!)

*AADT 26k - 28k:
2020:*

*8. DK44* in Oświęcim: *27.5k, 25.3k. (Design-build contracts for S1 + DK44 dual-carriageway Oświęcim bypass are ongoing.)*
*9. DK85* bridge over Narew river in Nowy Dwór Mazowiecki: *27.4k*
*10. DK25 near Bydgoszcz (southern approach to S10): 26.5k. *(S5 west of Bydgoszcz was opened in 2021, hence fragment is no longer a common alternative route to DK5. Additionally, tender for a 2x2 DK25 on this fragment is ongoing.)
*11. DK91 *Zgierz – Łódź: *26.5k.** (S14 Łódź western bypass is under construction.)*
*12. DK94* in Oława*: 26.1k*
*2015:*

*3. DK91 *Zgierz – Łódź:* 27.6k. (S14 Łódź western bypass is under construction. *A1 Łódź eastern bypass was opened in 2016, hence a small drop rather than an increase in AADT from 2015 to 2020.*)*
*4. DK44* in Oświęcim: *26.5k. (Design-build contracts for S1 + DK44 dual-carriageway Oświęcim bypass are ongoing.)*


*AADT ~25k - 26k:
2020:*

*13. DK74 *near Kielce (western approach to S7): *25.9k. (Design-build tender for S74 on this section is ongoing.)*
*14. DK79 *bypass of Piaseczno: *25.6k*
*---. DK44 *Mikołów – Tychy:* 25.2k *(Measurement point located on the boundary between 2x2 and 1x2 sections. However, the 1x2 part does not formally count into the measurement, as it is fully contained without the administrative borders of Tychy.)
*15. DK12/74 *Piotrków Trybunalski – Przygłów:* 24.9k*
*2015:*

*5. DK5 *northern entrance to Bydgoszcz:* 25.4k. *(S5 Bydgoszcz bypass was opened in 2020.)
*6. DK19* near Lublin (northern approach to S12): *24.7k. *(Design-build contract for S19 is ongoing.)


----------



## Wolfiq

Kirt93 said:


> *Most busy sections of 1x2 roads – comparison 2020 vs 2015.*
> 
> _PS. In the earlier version, point 12 has got lost, which was supposed to be *"DK74 *near Kielce (western approach to S7): *25.9k."*_
> 
> *AADT 30k+*:
> *2020:*
> 
> *1. DK44 *near Kraków (south-western approach to A4):* 36.0k*
> *2. DK9 *near Rzeszów (northern approach to A4):* 33.8k, 26.3k*
> *2015:*
> 
> *1. DK5 *near Poznań (southern approach to A2): *30.2k.* *(S5 on this section was opened in 2019.)*
> 
> 
> *AADT 28k - 30k:
> 2020:*
> 
> *3. DK94* near Kraków (north-western approach to S52): *28.7k. (Reconstruction to 2x2 on this section is ongoing.)*
> *4. DK19* near Lublin (northern approach to S12): *28.4k, 27.0k. (Design-build contract for S19 is ongoing.) *
> *5. DK94* eastern entrance to Rzeszów (2+2 profile, reduced to 1x2 near intersections): *28.3k*
> *6. DK20 *in Żukowo (near Gdańsk):* 28.2k. (Design-build contracts for S6 Tricity 2nd bypass + DK20 dual-carriageway Żukowo bypass are ongoing.)*
> *7. DK10* in Lubicz (near Toruń): *28.0k*
> *2015:*
> 
> *2. **DK4* eastern entrance to Rzeszów (2+2 profile, reduced to 1x2 near intersections): *28.0k. **(A4 on this section was opened in 2016. *Regardless, the traffic on the old DK(9)4 has already now returned to the pre-A4 levels!)
> 
> 
> *AADT 26k - 28k:
> 2020:*
> 
> *8. DK44* in Oświęcim: *27.5k, 25.3k. (Design-build contracts for S1 + DK44 dual-carriageway Oświęcim bypass are ongoing.)*
> *9. DK85* bridge over Narew river in Nowy Dwór Mazowiecki: *27.4k*
> *---. DK25 near Bydgoszcz (southern approach to S10): 26.5k. (S5 west of Bydgoszcz was opened in 2021, hence fragment is no longer a common alternative route to DK5. Nonetheless, tender for construction of a dual-carriageway DK25 on this fragment is ongoing as part of S10 tenders.)*
> *10. DK91 *Zgierz – Łódź: *26.5k.** (S14 Łódź western bypass is under construction.)*
> *11. DK94* in Oława*: 26.1k*
> *2015:*
> 
> *3. DK91 *Zgierz – Łódź:* 27.6k. (S14 Łódź western bypass is under construction. *A1 Łódź eastern bypass was opened in 2016, hence a small drop rather than an increase in AADT from 2015 to 2020.*)*
> *4. DK44* in Oświęcim: *26.5k. (Design-build contracts for S1 + DK44 dual-carriageway Oświęcim bypass are ongoing.)*
> 
> 
> *AADT ~25k - 26k:
> 2020:*
> 
> *12. DK74 *near Kielce (western approach to S7): *25.9k. (Design-build tender for S74 on this section is ongoing.)*
> *13. DK79 *bypass of Piaseczno: *25.6k*
> *14. DK44 *Mikołów – Tychy:* 25.2k*
> *15. DK12/74 *Piotrków Trybunalski – Przygłów:* 24.9k*
> *2015:*
> 
> *5. DK5 *northern entrance to Bydgoszcz:* 25.4k. (S5 Bydgoszcz bypass was opened in 2020.)*
> *6. DK19* near Lublin (northern approach to S12): *24.7k. (Design-build contract for S19 is ongoing.) *


DK44 between Mikołów and Tychy is 2x2. That section in Mikołów is 2x2. In Tychy it is mostly 1x2, but it is also county city, so they didn't measure traffic there . Because of that there are some holes holes on map, especially within Katowice urban area. Only traffic from A and S roads is measured there.


----------



## kokomo

Patrako said:


> Speaking of looking absurd, don't forget about this amazing footbrigde located few kilometers south of Piotrków.
> View attachment 2358805


It looks Brazilian


----------



## Chris80678

kokomo said:


> It looks Brazilian


Because of the green and yellow (which both appear in Brazil's 🇧🇷 flag)


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Traffic has shifted to the definitive carriageway on A1 between Tuszyn and Piotrków Trybunalski.

This is not a new motorway per se, this motorway opened in 1989 as the first segment of A1. However it has been totally rebuilt and expanded to six lanes.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461634985740357638


----------



## Patrako

ChrisZwolle said:


> This is not a new motorway per se, this motorway opened in 1989 as the first segment of A1. However it has been totally rebuilt and expanded to six lanes.


Just to be clear, only the section beetwen Tuszyn JCT and Piotrków Trybunalski Zachód JCT was opened today. In the same contract there's also Piotrków Trybunalski Zachód JCT- Piotrków Trybunalski południe JCT which is still under renovation, also it will be the only section of A1 to have a total of 8 lanes (i think there are only two other sections with that amount of lanes)


----------



## kokomo

Chris80678 said:


> Because of the green and yellow (which both appear in Brazil's 🇧🇷 flag)


Indeed


----------



## SRC_100

ChrisZwolle said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461634985740357638


And most cars use only daylights during such a bad weather... 🤦‍♂️ what a morons!?


----------



## Klaus9194

Using Tricity Bypass S6/E28 (one of the busiest city bypass in Poland according to GPR 2020/21) as an example you can clearly see the enormous growth of traffic over the last decade on the motorways/expressways near urban areas in Poland. The same growing tendency go for most of the polish cities - Poznan, Wroclaw, Krakow, Warszawa.
On some streches (see graph) annual average daily traffic nearly doubled in just 10 years while on the last strech only in 5. The data for Tricity might be a little bit unrepresentative due to huge decrease in amount of public transportation users in the Tricity metro area (Covid-19) and increased domestic tourism heading towards Hel Peninsula, but despite these facts traffic patterns and its amount changing so rapidly give you a lot to think about. I'm very curious about AADT 2025 results for Tricity because it's one of the few urban areas where expressway network will change significantly in 5 years.


----------



## Chris80678

ChrisZwolle said:


> Traffic has shifted to the definitive carriageway on A1 between Tuszyn and Piotrków Trybunalski.
> 
> This is not a new motorway per se, this motorway opened in 1989 as the first segment of A1. However it has been totally rebuilt and expanded to six lanes.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461634985740357638


Is it 2022 when A1 Tuszyn to Piotrków Trb Południe is due to fully open to traffic i.e. all carriageways?


----------



## dominobb

Chris80678 said:


> Is it 2022 when A1 Tuszyn to Piotrków Trb Południe is due to fully open to traffic i.e. all carriageways?


Yes indeed.


----------



## Chris80678

dominobb said:


> Yes indeed.


May 2022 according to Siskom's map

Thanks for confirming 👍


----------



## Kirt93

Chris80678 said:


> Is it 2022 when A1 Tuszyn to Piotrków Trb Południe is due to fully open to traffic i.e. all carriageways?


May 2022 is the official contract deadline, but GDDKiA claims it will already happen in late December.

This today's opening is nice and all, but ultimately it doesn't really change much. What really matters now is the three interchanges:

Piotrków South, where the main relation (A1) is still narrowed to 1 lane per direction (to give way to feeder lanes),
Częstochowa North, north of which A1 is also still narrowed to 1 lane per direction,
Mykanów, where there are 2 lanes available per direction, but with traffic lights.
Those three last bottlenecks are expected to disappear by the end of December, and only then the true capacity of the 2+2 profile (some fragments with 3rd lane) will be available.


----------



## Kemo

Graphical comparison of traffic congestion on national roads prepared by @uluru
Colors are dependent on AADT figures, number of lanes and class of road.


----------



## Kirt93

All 1x2 DK roads within the planned highway network* with AADT >= 18'000, and comparison to the progress of construction of relevant highway sections.
_* planned A-roads, S-roads, and "semi-S" grade-separated GP 2x2 highways _


_*Progress of construction of the relevant highway section *_(colors meant to mirror the ssc.siskom.waw.pl map)_*:*_
Ongoing construction
Ongoing design as part of a design-build contract
Ongoing design-build tender
Part of "Road Construction Plan until 2033" – completion realistic in years 2026 – 2028
Part of "Road Construction Plan until 2033" – completion realistic in years 2029 – 2033
Not included in "Road Construction Plan until 2033"


*AADT from 21k to 28.4k:*

1. *DK19 *north of Lublin:* 28.4k*, 27.0k, 23.1k, 22.0k
2. *DK10 *in Lubicz (east of Toruń):* 28.0k*, 23.5k (Bronze if the variant of S10 through Lubicz is chosen. Otherwise, it would be expected that a bypass of Lublicz should be constructed separately, but no official information hence grey.)
3.* DK74 *Miedziana Góra (west of Kielce) – S7: *25.9k, *S7 – Kielce*: 23.9k*
4. *DK12/74 *Piotrków Trybunalski – Sulejów:* 24.9k*, 20.7k
5.* DK11 *north of Poznań:* 24.2k*
6. *DK11 *Kórnik (south of Poznań) – Środa Wlkp. _(except its bypass with lower AADT)_ – Klęka: *23.3k*, 20.4k, 18.5k
7. *DK75 *Brzesko bypass: section joint with DK94: *23.0k*, section A4 – DK94: *20.4k*
8. *DK6 *in Koszalin (western entrance): *22.8k*
9. *DK17* Warsaw Eastern Bypass (section DK92 – A2): *22.5k*
10. *DK47* "Zakopianka": Rdzawka – Nowy Targ: *22.2k*, 18.8k
*AADT from 20k to 21.5k:*

11. *DK75 *north of Nowy Sącz
12. *DK12/91 *Tuszyn (A1) – Piotrków T. (S8) (Included on the list because one of the reasons for high AADT is that it serves as the substitute of missing north <-> east flyovers on the 1980s' intechange A1 x S8.) 
13. *DK19* south of Rzeszów
14. *DK7* Widoma (end of S7) – Kraków
15. *DK28/52* Wadowice bypass
16. *DK74* east of Kielce
17. *DK35* Świdnica bypass
18. *DK25* east of Ostrów Wielkopolski
19. *DK16* east of Olsztyn
20. *DK50* ("Warsaw outer bypass") west of S8
*AADT from 19k to 20k:*

21. *DK17 *north of Zamość
22. *DK19* south of Lublin
23. *DK78 *in Zawiercie
24. *DK7* Napierki (end of S7) – Mława
25. *DK8* south of Wrocław
26.* DK5 *north of Bydgoszcz
27. *DK11* Tarnowskie Góry – Bytom
28. *DK7* Wodzisław (end of S7) – Miechów – Szczepanowice (beg. of S7)
29. *DK6* Kębłowo – Wejherowo
30. *DK50* ("Warsaw outer bypass") bridge over Vistula and nearby fragments (19k, 18k)
* AADT from 18k to 19k:*

31. *DK10* east of Bydgoszcz
32. *DK2 *east of Mińsk Mazowiecki (end of A2)
33. *DK52* Bielsko-Biała – Kozy
34. *DK19 *in Bielsk Podlaski
35. *DK17 *in Tomaszów Lubelski


----------



## Chris80678

Niemodlin bypass (DK46) is to open on Monday 22.11.21 at 14h00 (Polish time)









Obwodnica Niemodlina gotowa. W poniedziałek drogą za 305 mln zł przejadą pierwsze samochody


Telewizja Polska S.A



opole.tvp.pl


----------



## Kirt93

*Most busy 2x2+ sections within the planned highway network,*
and comparison to the progress of (re)construction.


_*Legend (widening, or construction of an alternative route):*_
Not needed – current AADT at least 20% away from the upper AADT limit (for a given road profile) as defined by ministry's guidelines
Ongoing construction
Part of "Road Construction Plan until 2033" – completion realistic in years 2026 – 2028
Part of "Road Construction Plan until 2033" – completion realistic in years 2029 – 2033
Not included in "Road Construction Plan until 2033"


*Top 20 most busy sections within the planned highway network:*

*S8* in Warsaw: max. 198k (2x4+), 179k (2x3)
*S8 *south-west of Warsaw (joint section with DK7 until S7 is completed): max. 115k (2x3)
*S2 *Warsaw southern bypass (western part): max. 114k (2x4+), 97k (2x3)
*S86 *Sosnowiec – Katowice: 113k (2x3)
*A4 *in Katowice: 105k (2x4+)
*S6 *Gdańsk / Sopot / Gdynia bypass: max. 97k (2x3), 93k (2x2)
*A2 *west of Warsaw: 93k (2x3)
*A8 *Wrocław bypass: max. 86k (2x3)
*A4 *Kraków bypass: max. 85k (2x2) (+ eastern fragment with 2x3: 77k)
*A2 *Pozań bypass: max. 83k (2x3)
*S8* east of Warsaw: max. 80k (2x3)
*A4* east of Katowice: max. 75k (2x2) (Figure likely inflated by the DK86 reconstruction going on at the time of measurements.)
*A4 *west of Wrocław: max. 75k (2x2, _partially without emergency lanes on sections with up to 63k_)
*A4 *west of Katowice: max. 70k (2x3)
*A2 *Łódź – DK50: max. 56k (2x2), DK50 – Pruszków (west of Warsaw): max. 68k (2x2)
*A4 *east of Kraków: 64k (2x2)
*DK7* north of Warsaw (2x2 with traffic lights): 63k
*DK7* south of Warsaw (2x2 with traffic lights): max. 61k
*S52* Bielsko-Biała bypass: max. 58k
*DK7* south of Kraków (2x2 with traffic lights, to be upgraded into 2x2 grade-separated): 57k


----------



## Patrako

Kirt93 said:


> *S8* in Warsaw: max. 198k (2x4+), 179k (2x3)


Why is marked as Part of "Road construction plan"? Did you mean construction of the NS juction,or something else?


----------



## Kirt93

I meant S50 which is supposed to be constructed within the Plan up to 2033 (which might or might not happen, but as of now I don't think we have reasons to claim the 2033 timeframe is not yet plausible).

Also there is "Trasa Mostu Północnego" which should be constructed by Warsaw city, but the (lack of) preparations so far seems to indicate Warsaw really doesn't feel like doing it... If ever constructed, this would be the only key to really unburden S8 I guess (but this one is not part of "Road construction plan" as the plan only contains the investments of the national government and not those of the city governments).


----------



## sponge_bob

Kirt93 said:


> I meant S50 which is supposed to be constructed within the Plan up to 2033 (which might or might not happen, but as of now I don't think we have reasons to claim the 2033 timeframe is not yet plausible).


Right now it is very plausible, or at least that Poland starts every scheme in its plan by the end of 2033. A lot can go wrong in 12 years even if all future governments are broadly supportive of the overall road programme as they have been for the last 15 years.

A least worst option is a reduction in annual tempo and rescheduling the completion out a number of years. But I really would tackle_ all_ the most environmentally difficult schemes in the next 5 years if I were Poland and one is the NW quadrant around Warsaw north of that proposed airport.


----------



## metacatfry

Kirt93 said:


> *





Klaus9194 said:


> *





Kirt93 said:


> *





Kirt93 said:


> *


Love all the analysis of the traffic figures posted.
Not surprised by the traffic growth, it is strongly linked to economic growth. And the national average gdp, although strong, undersells the growth in the big cities, where taffic growth is also heaviest.
Is it induced demand primarily? I think without the large road building programme, Poland's economic advance would not have been able to continue. Transport is fundamental to economic activity. I also think this growth is happening over a shorter timescale than most European countries, and I'm worried about a popular and political backlash. There are many 1X2 DK roads still with tons of people living right by who are harmed by the growth.


----------



## geogregor

metacatfry said:


> Love all the analysis of the traffic figures posted.
> Not surprised by the traffic growth, it is strongly linked to economic growth. And the national average gdp, although strong, undersells the growth in the big cities, where taffic growth is also heaviest.
> Is it induced demand primarily? I think without the large road building programme, Poland's economic advance would not have been able to continue. Transport is fundamental to economic activity. I also think this growth is happening over a shorter timescale than most European countries, and I'm worried about a popular and political backlash. There are many 1X2 DK roads still with tons of people living right by who are harmed by the growth.


Yes, the biggest metropolitan areas are growing strongly, even more so than national GDP (and than official figures). It is all positive but the problem is that out public transport is simply crap. If we add haphazard suburban developments (with very little planning) and we end up with total car domination outside the strictest urban cores. 

As much I'm happy to see that Poland is finally developing proper road network at some point country hast to start investing in public transport and proper planning, especially in suburban areas. Sure, not everyone, not even majority will switch but we have to start asking if places like Wroclaw, Poznan and other do want to operate like American cities or European ones.

It is worth mentioning that as time passes Poland will have to spend more on maintenance and widening of busy stretches, most likely without the EU funding. It might slow the relentless expansion of the network.


----------



## Wolfiq

geogregor said:


> Yes, the biggest metropolitan areas are growing strongly, even more so than national GDP (and than official figures). It is all positive but the problem is that out public transport is simply crap. If we add haphazard suburban developments (with very little planning) and we end up with total car domination outside the strictest urban cores.
> 
> As much I'm happy to see that Poland is finally developing proper road network at some point country hast to start investing in public transport and proper planning, especially in suburban areas. Sure, not everyone, not even majority will switch but we have to start asking if places like Wroclaw, Poznan and other do want to operate like American cities or European ones.
> 
> It is worth mentioning that as time passes Poland will have to spend more on maintenance and widening of busy stretches, most likely without the EU funding. It might slow the relentless expansion of the network.


You get much bigger return of investment from public transport rather than from road investments. Because everyone can potentially benefit from public transport. Nobody is excluded since you don't need to own or have access to vehicle to see any benefits.

I believe that better public transport might in fact be essential to sustain high GDP growth rates.


----------



## sponge_bob

geogregor said:


> It is worth mentioning that as time passes Poland will have to spend more on maintenance and widening of busy stretches, most likely without the EU funding. It might slow the relentless expansion of the network.


EU funding is not available for maintenance and never was.......

Assuming a service life of 25 years before major repaving etc the heavy maintenance finally starts around 2035 in Poland, 25 years after an appreciable amount of road was built, and climbs steadily thereafter into the 2060s.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Chris80678 said:


> Niemodlin bypass (DK46) is to open on Monday 22.11.21 at 14h00 (Polish time)


Here are the first vehicles traveling down the Niemodlin Bypass of DK46:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1462784349540130824


----------



## Chris80678

ChrisZwolle said:


> Here are the first vehicles traveling down the Niemodlin Bypass of DK46:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1462784349540130824


The former DK46 through Niemodlin has been re-numbered DW435

This is the same road which was extended eastwards to link Niemodlin to the villages of Prądy and Wawelno

A video of the bypass:


----------



## 100kr

Progress of construction S19 section Kraśnik - Janów Lubelski:

October:



November:


----------



## Chris80678

Coraz bliżej otwarcia kolejnego fragmentu drogi Via Baltica. To odcinek S61 Wysokie-Raczki | Kurier Poranny


Budowa drogi ekspresowej S61 na odcinku Wysokie-Raczki




poranny.pl





Some good photos of S61 Wysokie - Raczki in this article.

Road is due to open sometime in December 2021.


----------



## Kemo

Let's have a roadtrip away from the boring motorway network 

This is route 897 into Bieszczady Mountains, considered to be the most remote place in Poland. You literally can't go any further, the village of Wołosate is the very tip of the country (in the south-east).

Map: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2315269






Sparsely populated area, nice landcapes. Worth visiting.


----------



## 100kr

New road openings till the end of 2021:


----------



## Cookiefabric

^^ What happened with the S61 section that was meant to be opened in december 2021?


----------



## Chris80678

Cookiefabric said:


> ^^ What happened with the S61 section that was meant to be opened in december 2021?


You mean section from Wysokie to Raczki?


----------



## Cookiefabric

Chris80678 said:


> You mean section from Wysokie to Raczki?


Yeps


----------



## Chris80678

A video of S61 Wysokie - Raczki:


----------



## Patrako

The first carriageway of Tomaszów Lubelski's bypasss (part of S17) opened today. The second carriageway is under construction (to be finished next year).

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465275707093835782


----------



## Sponsor

*DK47 Rdzawka - Nowy Targ *


https://dk47-rdzawka-nowytarg.pl/zdjecia-lotnicze.html


----------



## Maciek_CK

^^ Speaking of a road to Zakopane, a second carriageway on S7 Lubień-Naprawa was opened today. Almost two years after the initial deadline (and the first carriageway which was opened December 20th 2019) and over 15 years after the start of preparatory work.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465679598247727104


----------



## kokomo

Sponsor said:


> *DK47 Rdzawka - Nowy Targ *


I guess the local folkspeople won't be very happy to have their town split in two by a new viaduct. Was this necessary? Couldn't a detour been devised in order not to have a long bridge spanning from one side to the town to the other? Gorgeous town divided in two by a large causeway


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Southeastern Poland has a lot of these long stretched out villages.


----------



## Patrako

I'm still wondering if the construction of new DK47 is going to help the traffic situation on Zakopianka. From speaking to people living in Zakopane, i know they suspect this road will be a disaster, creating more congestion, making this road even more unusable


----------



## Kirt93

I believe it is going to help greatly (fully so after the link to DK49 is opened several years later), because from Nowy Targ southbound you get a variety of options splitting traffic in multiple directions. To get to Nowy Targ, on the other hand, there is only DK47 and one detour which is not only longer to drive but also gets congested easily as well.

It will surely worsen the situation on DK47 from Nowy Targ to Zakopane, but will be an extreme improvement for everyone living elsewhere in the whole region (including the inhabitants of Nowy Targ itself), as well as for those tourists who don't necessarily feel a need to go to Zakopane proper, but just to the Tatra Mountains (or other mountains, or to Slovakia).

What will not help overly much will be the completion of S7 Lubień – Skomielna without completion of DK47 Rdzawka – Nowy Targ. Due to delays in the tunnel, it seems this state of events will only last about 1 year though.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Zakopane has a population of 27,000. However on summer weekends this swells to 250,000 visitors. 3 million people visit the Tatras annually.









Turyści w Tatrach. 7 faktów


Prezentujemy kilka faktów, które zobrazują, jak wiele osób odwiedza Podhale.




portaltatrzanski.pl





The 'problem' is that the High Tatras is a geographically small area so most tourists flock to the exact same place: Zakopane. 

I'm guessing that visitors to the Slovak side of the High Tatras are a little better spread out.


----------



## Patrako

ChrisZwolle said:


> The 'problem' is that the High Tatras is a geographically small area so most tourists flock to the exact same place: Zakopane.


Even if you stay outside Zakopane, expect when going to Bukowina or Jurgów, you can't really bypass DK47 south from Nowy targ, there's an alternative route but it forces you to use lower quality, DW roads


----------



## Kirt93

There is actually quite several options.

For those going to the accommodations around Zakopane, driving to Małe Ciche or Murzasichle or this whole general area is only 10 minutes longer via DK49 than DK47 without traffic. For those going straight to the mountains, driving to the starting point of all trails in Morskie Oko and 5 Lakes Valley areas is 1 minute longer via DK49 than DK47 without traffic.

Driving to Kościelisko through DW roads from Nowy Targ is also only 10 minutes longer, and those DW roads are not that much lower quality than DK47 (as opposed to DW 958 from Chabówka to Czarny Dunajec, which needs to be used now if one wants to bypass DK47 jams, which is significantly lower quality). Driving to Dolina Chochołowska trails is not longer at all.

And those going to the Slovak side (which is indeed much better spread out) will be able to bypass DK47 jams completely, so more people might choose it over the Polish side compared to the current situation when traveling to both sides means wasting time in the jams before Nowy Targ.


----------



## Kemo

In a few hours, the manual toll collection system on GDDKiA's sections of A2 and A4 will be shut down and replaced by a convoluted e-ticket system.

More info:


https://etoll.gov.pl/en/


----------



## geogregor

Kemo said:


> In a few hours, the manual toll collection system on GDDKiA's sections of A2 and A4 will be shut down and replaced by a convoluted e-ticket system.
> 
> More info:
> 
> 
> https://etoll.gov.pl/en/


When you use the app and buy e-ticket for a single journey, how exact you have to be when providing time of start of your journey?

Let say I go to the app and buy e-ticket for my rental car, from Sosnica to Gogolin, travelling on Friday at 1pm. But due to delays I arrive to Sosnica an hour later than planned. I assume my e-ticket is still valid. Is it?


----------



## Kemo

It is valid for several days (2 or 3, I can't remember). Details can be found somewhere on the website.


----------



## Kemo

Updates from last 3 months:

*A1*: some sections of carriageways have been fully opened with 3 lanes
*S1*: design & build contract for a section near Oświęcim has been signed
*S3*: the last remaining section between Szczecin and Legnica has been opened
*S5*: a section south of Bydgoszcz has been partially opened
*S6*: tender for construction of section Koszalin - Słupsk been started
*S7*: one section north of Kraków has been opened, construction of another one has (re)started and one section south of Kraków has been opened in full profile
*S8*: environmental permit has been issued for a section south of Wrocław
*S12*: environmental permit has been issued for a section west of Radom
*S17*: a section near PL/UA border has been opened with one carriageway
*S19*: environmental permit for a section north of Białystok has been issued, design & build contract for 4 sections south of Białystok and 1 section near Krosno have been signed and one section between Lublin and Rzeszów has been opened


----------



## Rysse

S3 Bolków - Kamienna Góra section













































































































source - S3 Legnica (A4) - Lubawka zadanie III


----------



## Rysse

S3 Kamienna Góra - Polish-Czech border























































































































The last photo shows the Polish-Czech border

source - S3 Legnica (A4) - Lubawka zadanie IV


----------



## kokomo

Isn´t the motorway continuing on the czech side? It looks funny that last photo with both lanes ending on a plowed field


----------



## Kielbus




----------



## Chris80678

A video of Ursynów Tunnel on S2 Warsaw Southern Bypass:






Posted by @alutok in the Polish forum


----------



## Chris80678

A video of S19 Janów Lubelski bypass:






Posted by @eel79 in the Polish forum


----------



## Chris80678

A video of S19 from exit Janów Lubelski Północ to Kraśnik Północ exit


----------



## Nowax

*[S3] Kamienna Gora - Lubawka (CZ)











































































































*

Source: S3 Legnica (A4) - Lubawka zadanie IV


----------



## SRC_100

Few recent pictures of already upgraded national road no. 1, section D (Radomsko - lodzkie/slaskie voivodeship border):































For more just get in *HERE*


----------



## Chris80678

The most ridiculously-sized gantry for such a tiny sign:


----------



## Patrako

I'm wondering, will they ever stop putting Poznań on these signs? There's Łódź along the way, but despite being 3rd biggest city and having junctions of important roads nearby, it isn't mentioned on most signs in Warsaw


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

For the same reason why you never see Kielce instead of Kraków on S7…


----------



## Patrako

Jakub Warszauer said:


> For the same reason why you never see Kielce instead of Kraków on S7…


Although Kielce are a "miasto wojewódzki ", i think it's a completely different situation


----------



## Signar

First photo from A2 (Ryczołei-Groszki)



Chris79 said:


> Pierwsze zdjęcia z wycinek na stronie kontraktu https://a2minsk-siedlce.pl/galeria/zdjecia-z-ziemi-o3.html
> Na powyższej stronie są też dwa filmy z wycinki.
> Dwa poglądowe zdjęcia:


----------



## Maciek_CK

A major opening in Warszawa – a completion of the city’s southern bypass, connecting both sides of A2, featuring a record 2335 meter-long tunnel under Ursynów district. The section in question is 4,6 km long, including Ursynów Wschód and Ursynów Zachód intersections. 2x3 with a reserve for a fourth lane. This is live from Kutnowskie Ulice i Drogi Rowerowe


----------



## Pilav

December 2020 vs Today


----------



## MtGrz

It is worth mention, that there is only one capital of voivodeship, that is not connected to European highway network, Kielce. Bydgoszcz is temporarily connected and Lublin was connected today with opening of S2.


----------



## Maciek_CK

^^ Correct but it's worth mentioning that the 22 km gap (b/t Tarczyn and Warszawa Janki) is a dual carriageway with a general 100 km/h limit and will cease to exist (the gap, not the road) in early fall 2022 when S7 is scheduled to be drivable.


----------



## Chris80678

A video of opened Ursynów Tunnel:






Video posted by @Rusonaldo in the Polish forum


----------



## kostas97

So is the Warsaw bypass fully open right now?


----------



## Maciek_CK

^^Yes, both directions and all intersetions.


----------



## kostas97

Therefore, this makes a _de facto_ open A2 from the German border to Minsk Masowiecki, with the rest of the road to the Belarusian border still in planning?


----------



## The Wild Boy

And when will the outer Warsaw ring road begin construction?


----------



## SRC_100

kostas97 said:


> Therefore, this makes a _de facto_ open A2 from the German border to Minsk Ma*z*owiecki, with the rest of the road to the Belarusian border still in planning?


A2 till Biała Podlaska should be completed until Oct. 2024.
Take a look:









*source*


----------



## Cookiefabric

@The Wild Boy Getting the "Inner ring" closed does have a higher priority (it's marked in blue - S17)


----------



## Chris80678

That's some years off sadly


----------



## The Wild Boy

Cookiefabric said:


> @The Wild Boy Getting the "Inner ring" closed does have a higher priority (it's marked in blue - S17)


I know about the inner ring road, that it is a priority. I also know that it can not be fully finished, because there is a politician that has a house nearby, which isn't even on the route of the planned motorway. I think this was mentioned once before.

I was specifically asking about the outer ring road of Warsaw, when it is expected /estimated to begin construction. More specifically this:









Since now i can see trucks aren't fully allowed though Warsaw's S2 / A2 motorway (one part of the bypass) and the S2 in Warsaw is also used by daily commuters which drastically increases traffic.

How much lanes would the outer Warsaw bypass be? 4? I'm assuming that most of transit traffic will switch to using the outer bypass of Warsaw once it gets built. And maybe Warsaw will be the first city in Europe (except London???) to get more than 1 complete circular ring road??


----------



## Patrako

The Wild Boy said:


> I also know that it can not be fully finished, because there is a politician that has a house nearby, which isn't even on the route of the planned motorway. I think this was mentioned once before.


Jan Szyszko, he died in October of 2019


The Wild Boy said:


> How much lanes would the outer Warsaw bypass be? 4? I'm assuming that most of transit traffic will switch to using the outer bypass of Warsaw once it gets built. And maybe Warsaw will be the first city in Europe (except London???) to get more than 1 complete circular ring road??


According to current info 3 lanes, without any reserve
(Screenshot from official documents published by GDDKIA)


----------



## Kemo

The Wild Boy said:


> And when will the outer Warsaw ring road begin construction?


No sooner than ~6 years.


----------



## Tronni

The Wild Boy said:


> How much lanes would the outer Warsaw bypass be? 4? I'm assuming that most of transit traffic will switch to using the outer bypass of Warsaw once it gets built. And maybe Warsaw will be the first city in Europe (except London???) to get more than 1 complete circular ring road??


Technically London doesn't have more than 1 "complete" circular ring road either.


----------



## Cookiefabric

A bit off-topic, but Warszawa won't be the first city in Europe with an inner and outerring: Minsk, Moscow (Paris / Berlin / Madrid are up for discussion)


----------



## Patrako

@Kemo didn't menton it, and i don't think anyone posted it here, but recently the head of GDDKIA announced that parts of outer ring would go back to first design phase; none of the proposed corridors were acceptable.
(part of a dispatch issued by GDDKIA's head )


----------



## Cookiefabric

That sounds like a good plan.

The outerring should/would serve the subs and transit.
For transit traffic flow, I would like to use a small picture that has been posted here over and over again:










The main flow is the relation Rotterdam/Berlin <> Baltics. If you want really want to divert/reroute that amount of traffic, there are several options:
1) Design the outer ring that gives transit traffic an advantage over the current existing A2-S8 route ("cutting the corner")
2) Don't let the transit traffic even reach the Warszawa region, by building/completing the S5-S16-S61 route
3) Don't allow it by road (Hi Swiss)
And so on

(( I'm aware of the discussions and protest in the north and I also did see a big natura2000 park in that corner close to Warszawa)


----------



## MichiH

Cookiefabric said:


> 2) Don't let the transit traffic even reach the Warszawa region, by building/completing the S5-S16-S61 route


This!


----------



## Patrako

You know local communities will try to block s16 for as long as they can?


----------



## Kemo

More like fake ecologists, not local communities.


----------



## Cookiefabric

If I remember correct -- only a few locals wanted the S16/S5 a tiny bit further (distance) of their homes. Those people weren't against it.
Most the local were happy with the news with the S16 -- currently the lakes region around Elk is hard to reach and therefore considered as "the middle of nowhere" / "remote"

In the "true complaining camp" I did spot Greenpeace and friends -- basicly, that should tell you enough


----------



## Patrako

Ok, my bad, sorry


----------



## 100kr

Communism was the system that tried to bravely solving the problems which were created by it own. The same is with Warsaw - we directed all the possible routes through the city and now we are waiting for build the outter ring...


----------



## The Wild Boy

Whatever the case is, you will not want to mix up commuter and transit traffic. Now with the completion of S2 motorway though Warsaw and once Warsaw gets a full ring road, that will increase and draw in more daily commuter traffic. I know that Warsaw has a decent metro system as well. I don't see any mayor planned extensions there. But once commuter traffic grows, which it certainly will that will became chaos when you combine that and transit traffic, especially mixing up with trucks. It's not really a good idea, and an outer ring road should be built to solve that. I don't mind it if it connects with Warsaw's suburbs as long as it doesn't make people from the suburbs commute on that outer ring road. After all the whole goal of that outer ring road is to mainly serve transit traffic, not to end up being used as a road for commuting. For that, you should build new roads / boulevards in the city, extend metro / railway lines that should help. Warsaw's outer ring road should be placed further away, but not too distant from the city, and it should connect to the needed motorways and express roads, so transit traffic can continue onwards.


----------



## The Wild Boy

Cookiefabric said:


> That sounds like a good plan.
> 
> The outerring should/would serve the subs and transit.
> For transit traffic flow, I would like to use a small picture that has been posted here over and over again:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The main flow is the relation Rotterdam/Berlin <> Baltics. If you want really want to divert/reroute that amount of traffic, there are several options:
> 1) Design the outer ring that gives transit traffic an advantage over the current existing A2-S8 route ("cutting the corner")
> 2) Don't let the transit traffic even reach the Warszawa region, by building/completing the S5-S16-S61 route
> 3) Don't allow it by road (Hi Swiss)
> And so on
> 
> (( I'm aware of the discussions and protest in the north and I also did see a big natura2000 park in that corner close to Warszawa)


I guess it's time for Poland to do it's part of Rail Baltica 

After roads, comes high speed railway! Time for Poland to give it's people more choices.


----------



## sponge_bob

Patrako said:


> recently the head of GDDKIA announced that parts of outer ring would go back to first design phase;


Did he finally notice the national park then??


----------



## Patrako

^I think after protests, he needs to do something


----------



## sponge_bob

These hard schemes were always going to happen because Poland has built/planned 75% of its network leaving the 'delicate' ones in the last 25%. Sadly your average ecomentalists are quite happy to have congested old S2 roads in national parks with diesel being burnt for no good reason in traffic jams.


----------



## MichiH

I think that the resistance against the outer beltway will be greater than against the northern route S5-S16. I think you could end up like Munich, Vienna, Budapest or Praha with an incomplete beltway. That means, having a incomplete ring for decades or even forever. For instance, if there will be a gap in the north, transit traffic will remain on S8 through the city. If you ban trucks (e.g. like Munich), they have to take a huge detour, e.g. (if ever built) via the southern and eastern A50 beltway. The A50 might be "cheaper" because of the shorter route length but if you have to fix all complaints with additional protection measures, you will end up with very high total costs. And it will take time. A lot of time.

Since commuter and business traffic is heading to Warsaw and its suburbs on the radial routes, you have a mix on those routes before reaching A50. Another problem you don't wanna have.

I think that it would be best to focus on the remote route (S5-S16) than just relying on the outer beltway. Don't get me wrong, I think that A50 planning procedures should be done and the road should be built. Even an incomplete beltway will relieve some routes through the city. But don't rely on mid-term A50 completion and forget the (better) remote route.


----------



## Eulanthe

MichiH said:


> I think that it would be best to focus on the remote route (S5-S16) than just relying on the outer beltway.


Absolutely. The S5-S16 route might seem remote, but it will remove a lot of heavy traffic from the A2. The Mazury region has also seen tourism explode in the last two years, so the S5-S16 will help much more than the A/S50.


----------



## Kemo

A section of S6 is ready to be opened, it looks like they are planning to open it soon, even though it is in the middle of nowhere.



Kantrzyn said:


> Odc. Budimexu sponsorowane przez słowo Ostatnie - w sensie ostatnie metry barierek, malowanie ostatnich metrów pasów no i zapewne ostatnia jazda rowerem po S6 na tym odcinku.


----------



## Kemo

The last at-grade intersection on A1 (under construction) has been closed today. So that means that you can drive all the way from CZ border in Gorzyczki to Gdańsk, having at least 2 lanes available* all the time and not having to stop on any traffic lights (not counting toll gates).
Of course this does not mean that the construction of A1 is finished.

*Well, technically, there is one place narrowed to 1 lane because they are building a railway viaduct (in Pyrzowice). Which by the way is stupid - at the time of construction of A1 (mere 2 years ago) they knew that this railway viaduct will need to be built, yet they did not do it.


----------



## Kirt93

To make it fully clear,


Kemo said:


> you can drive all the way from CZ border in Gorzyczki to Gdańsk, having at least 2 lanes available


means precisely this direction only. From Gdańsk to CZ, this is not yet true.


----------



## Kemo

But it's a matter of days, the only narrowed section is at Piotrków Trybunalski South interchange (if I'm correct).


----------



## Chris80678

Now that S2 Warsaw Southern Bypass is fully completed, does anyone know if the former DK2 (Dolina Służewiecka, Aleja Józefa Becka) through Warsaw shown below will be re-numbered as a voivoideship (DW) road or will it just become a GP local road?


----------



## Chris80678

Tomorrow (22.12.21) the S7 expressway between Mława Wschód and Płońsk opens to traffic:



https://radio7.pl/w-koncu-pojedziemy-nowa-siodemka-jutro-wielkie-otwarcie/38285/



To be clear, only the section between Mława Wschód and Płońsk counts as motorway.

The section between Napierki and Mława Wschód could open in May 2022 to fill in the gap.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

How much of S7 has actually opened to traffic? The press release states 50 kilometers, but the actual distance from Napierki to Płońsk is 71 kilometers. Has the entire 71 kilometers opened to traffic (if not only with 1 lane), or is there still a gap missing somewhere?



https://www.gov.pl/web/infrastruktura/kolejne-kilometry-s7-na-mazowszu-udostepnione-kierowcom


----------



## Patrako

Not all sections are avaible as expressway, parts of then are 1+1, or one carriageway+ service road.










Other news:
3 tenders for S17 south of Zamość were announced


----------



## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> How much of S7 has actually opened to traffic? The press release states 50 kilometers, but the actual distance from Napierki to Płońsk is 71 kilometers. Has the entire 71 kilometers opened to traffic (if not only with 1 lane), or is there still a gap missing somewhere?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.gov.pl/web/infrastruktura/kolejne-kilometry-s7-na-mazowszu-udostepnione-kierowcom


Today only Strzegowo-North - Pawłowo (about 25 km) OpenStreetMap
Another section will apparently be opened tomorrow: Mława-East - Strzegowo North in full profile and Napierki - Mława-East with one carriageway.


----------



## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> Today only Strzegowo-North - Pawłowo (about 25 km) OpenStreetMap
> Another section will apparently be opened tomorrow: Mława-East - Strzegowo North in full profile and Napierki - Mława-East with one carriageway.


What a mess of an opening!

The Twitter post about the opening of the Strzegowo-North - Pawłowo section (with some pics):


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1473620306208116738


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I measured it in Google Earth, and used Open Street Map to confirm.

Strzegowo-North - Pawłowo (temporary end just past the Dłużniewo interchange): 28 km opened today
Mława-East - Strzegowo-North: 21.5 km opening tomorrow

So the ministry's claim of 50 kilometers is more or less correct, it just didn't open all at once and not all the way to Płońsk.


----------



## Kemo

Yes, I updated OSM to show the current situation.

Northern end of 2x2: OpenStreetMap
Southern end of 2x2: OpenStreetMap

km 10+750 - 60+700 according to design, so this is indeed 50 km.


----------



## Daniel749

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1473651841854492679


----------



## Maciek_CK

A film featuring S2 Warsaw Southern Bypass in its entirety can be viewed here (plus some general information, in Polish; translation).


----------



## The Wild Boy

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1473680376312836100
This is part of that outer Warsaw bypass? 

It seems that authorities are pushing this project forward, that's good.


----------



## Chris80678

The openings keep coming:









S19 Lublin – Rzeszów. 23 grudnia otwarcie 8 kilometrów Via Carpatia na Podkarpaciu


Już 23 grudnia kierowcy będą mogli skorzystać z odcinka drogi ekspresowej S19 Kamień – Sokołów Małopolski. Dzięki temu Stalowa Wola




sztafeta.pl





S19 to Łowisko to Sokołów Małopolski North opens tomorrow (23.12.21) (8 km)

This will provide Nisko with an expressway connection all the way to Rzeszów


----------



## Patrako

The Wild Boy said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1473680376312836100
> This is part of that outer Warsaw bypass?
> 
> It seems that authorities are pushing this project forward, that's good.


Here's my post from Polish forum listing most important parts of the tender


Patrako said:


> Z OPZ
> 1. przetarg
> View attachment 2535298
> 
> 
> 2. Przetarg
> 
> View attachment 2535328
> 
> Dane wspólne
> 
> View attachment 2535338
> 
> View attachment 2535344
> 
> View attachment 2535347


----------



## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> Another small, but important "opening" today: the temporary roundabout at S5 near Bydgoszcz has been closed, which means that Bydgoszcz now has a proper motorway connection with Poznań (and European motorway network).


Does that mean Rynarzewo exit is now fully open too?


----------



## Kielbus

https://ucb78206c6c9fe78855cefecdffa.dl.dropboxusercontent.com/cd/0/inline/BcYw8ysuquFluZbVtjxZOzCN0WsXiqaOE9GAE1tJhX5zwTw7rjkjL0Nwvh63LntlznB01h732BKvboJdKftblZhG6smJN2ZFnOyltg8U2TVsWTo5dlqxPaVYBlM0S86saYFQrPfvrMPewBZyAPRONjx7/file#


----------



## Kielbus

https://ucf8af33e51589f66aef35e77cd4.dl.dropboxusercontent.com/cd/0/inline/BcaVVpA4vlJK4a-bv7CIFu-1o_uT5s94cuzlWjSE1I54Vhj1eexn4xbOptjzHF2FvZW-oe-vs99yMNP6vf5SYK-KRmX60QOs3-MRB95SRkcDVpZdb96ySKg5PxJqtwaL6-eWx1APR5BmJrTiJR7AsmSp/file#


----------



## Cookiefabric

Regarding the S61 section: In the Polish S61-topic was mentioned that only painting the lines are left (for in total roughly 1 day of work in case of a single unit doing the job).
However, (melting) snow and fresh paint are not going very well together -- which explains the 'little delay'

For other roads:
GDDKiA annouched that a section of the A2 motorway and the S3 Expressway did receive their ZRID. With Christmas so close I don't expect anything to happen for the remain piece of this year


----------



## SRC_100

Cookiefabric said:


> For other roads:
> GDDKiA annouched that a section of the A2 motorway and the S3 Expressway did receive their ZRID. With Christmas so close I don't expect anything to happen for the remain piece of this year


Today ZRID (construction permit) was issued for the section Dargobiedz - Troszyn of S3 (blue one on the map)...

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1473992384686043136









... and for section Grężów-Siedlce Zachód of A2

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1474028051084230664


----------



## The Wild Boy

When is Via Carpatia estimated to be finished in Poland? I see very good progress between Rzesov - Lublin, there are only small gaps left to finish these so both cities can get linked by a motorway connection.


Given the situation in Romania, Slovakia, and Bulgaria i am expecting Lithuania to be the second country to finish Via Carpatia after Poland and then Bulgaria coming right after Poland, since they are constructing most of Via Carpatia (except the A3 motorway near Kresna Gorge that could take a while to materialize).

I don't know much about Slovakia, but i have heard that they are very behind with their Via Carpatia plans, there's still a lot of R4 that has to be built and from my observation Slovakia might be the slowest. Romania isn't any advanced, but they have shown some good progress, especially on key motorway / express road projects like A11 where funding is mostly secured and by 2025 - 2026, that should be finished.

We heard for A6 in Romania that in the coming years they will conduct the needed studies, but it's going to take at least some 10 years untill parts of A6 actually materialize.

Romania and Slovakia may end up to be the last countries to do their job with Via Carpatia.

Oh and I almost forgot Lithuania. They have finished the plans with their A5 motorway, if I'm not mistaken. And in the coming years we should see construction works start, and maybe they could finish earlier than Arad - Oradea in Romania??

I would rank by which country will complete via carpatia first like this:

1. Poland
2. Lithuania
3. Bulgaria
4. Slovakia
5. Romania

And Hungary did it's job first! Well deserved for them, and good that the leaders and authorities there paid serious attention to this project. 

BTW, Is there a separate dedicated thread to the Via Carpatia project?


----------



## MichiH

The Wild Boy said:


> And Hungary did it's job first! Well deserved for them, and good that the leaders and authorities there paid serious attention to this project.


I don't think that Hungarians ever cared about a Via Carpatia project. They just built their routes on (national) demand. Just like Poland, Romania etc. do. To be honest, even me does not know which motorways in Hungary belong to the "Via Car....anything project". I even don't care either....


----------



## sponge_bob

MichiH said:


> To be honest, even me does not know which motorways in Hungary belong to the "Via Car....anything project". I even don't care either....


Looks like they are all done already. Poland is further away but progressing fast.


----------



## yoggy52

The Wild Boy said:


> I don't know much about Slovakia, but i have heard that they are very behind with their Via Carpatia plans, there's still a lot of R4 that has to be built and from my observation Slovakia might be the slowest.


Well, currently:
1 section is under construction
1 section is before signing ( it should start in 2019, but there are still some problems, maybe whole tender will be repeated)
1 section is ready, but lacking funding ( as costs are about 30mio/km )
1 section should have tender announced in 2024
1 section should have tender announced in 2025
2 sections should have tender announced in 2026
1 section should have tender announced in 2027
3 sections should have tender announced in 2029
Our part should be completed in 2033, but it is only plan, so it may take longer. Maybe miracle would happen and we will build it as PPP. 

You can find interactive map here: Portál o diaľniciach, rýchlostných cestách a železniciach


----------



## Chris80678

Some festive photos to lighten the mood:

















Photos posted by @Arczi091 in the Polish forum

Merry Christmas to you all !


----------



## geogregor

Wow, where is that?


----------



## MichiH

Chris80678 said:


> Some festive photos to lighten the mood:


Did they also drive? I was told about two convoies with illuminated trucks, fire trucks and construction vehicles driving through villages of my home district in Germany this week. There might be (much) more but I'm not really interested in things like that.


----------



## Chris80678

geogregor said:


> Wow, where is that?


At Son.Pol base in Adamów (37 miles north of Lublin)


----------



## Chris80678

MichiH said:


> Did they also drive? I was told about two convoies with illuminated trucks, fire trucks and construction vehicles driving through villages of my home district in Germany this week. There might be (much) more but I'm not really interested in things like that.


As far as I know they did not drive


----------



## Chris80678

Some photos from S7 Mława - Pawłowo:

Overhead gantry signage on approach to Pieńki Rzewińskie exit:









Signage on eastbound slip road at Mława East exit:









Overhead gantry signage on approach to Strzegowo South exit:









Overhead gantry signage on approach to Glinojeck exit:









Distance signage









Photos posted by @Wahacz in the Polish forum


----------



## PovilD

I see new projects (sections of S61, S2, now S7) without exit number despite new format. Are they gonna be added in the future?


----------



## 100kr

The Wild Boy said:


> When is Via Carpatia estimated to be finished in Poland?


2026.


----------



## Patrako

What? How? Via Carpatia with tunnels south of Rzeszów and S16? Impossible


----------



## Kirt93

100kr said:


> 2026.


Not a chance. More like around 2030 (and even the official timeline by GDDKiA says no earlier than 2029).

However, by 2026 there should be 85% of the total length completed. Which will still be an extreme improvement in the driving standard, when (counting single-carriageway fragments as 50%) at the end of 2020 it was still as low as 7.4% of the total length.


----------



## 100kr

Look at map, most of S19 will be ready till 2026:


----------



## Patrako

1. S19 is a part of Via Carpatia, bot there are 3 expressways that make up the polish section.
2. MOST? Earlier you said Via Carpatia will be done in 5 years


100kr said:


> 2026.


----------



## 100kr

Don't quarell about the cores  S19 has high priority so it's possible.


----------



## Patrako

No it's not, high priority can speed-up the funding proccess but the construction of tunnels takes time, no matter the priority. Once again i remind you, that polish Via Carpatia is not only S19


----------



## Kirt93

100kr said:


> S19 has high priority so it's possible.


No, even for S19 itself it is absolutely not possible. Not even remotely close to possible. And for the whole Polish Via Carpatia even less so.


----------



## sponge_bob

The New EU Aegean-Baltic Road corridor only follows the S19 from Lublin to the PK-SK frontier. Otherwise it goes Lublin - Warsaw - Gdansk which is more or less complete or will be next year.


----------



## Sponsor

PovilD said:


> I see new projects (sections of S61, S2, now S7) without exit number despite new format. Are they gonna be added in the future?


They canceled them recently. Exit number are only displayed on distance signs now. 

We know nothing. I just hope that the whole 'experimental signage' concept gets cancelled and they make new one from scratch.


----------



## Chris80678

Sponsor said:


> They canceled them recently. Exit number are only displayed on distance signs now.
> 
> We know nothing. I just hope that the whole 'experimental signage' concept gets cancelled and they make new one from scratch.


So no consistency in signage at all !


----------



## Cookiefabric

As long as the S_roads are built properly, i won't mind so quickly


----------



## Chris80678

Cookiefabric said:


> As long as the S_roads are built properly, i won't mind so quickly


And safely!


----------



## AdrianHH

Hello !
Can you help me with a information?
I would like to visit (by car) Krakow coming from Bucharest-Oradea-Debrecen-Kosice-Preslov-Poprad-Nowy Targ > Krakow.
It is not clear to me what type of road taxes apply for my car.
The Polish road it will be








SVK Podspády//POL 49 Jurgów to Kraków







www.google.ro




I see that i will cross two sections of S7 motorway.
I have read that there is a new app for paying. What and how can I pay (if there is any tax)?
If this question is not ok for this thread, I would like to ask a moderator to move the post on the correct section.
Thank you in advance.


----------



## Jakub Warszauer

The S7 / National Road 7 between Nowy Targ and Kraków is toll free for cars.


----------



## Suli

^^You mean - for passenger cars up to 3.5 tons without a trailer


----------



## Patrako

Isn't DK49 paid as well?


----------



## altjekl

Patrako said:


> Isn't DK49 paid aswell?


Of course not. It's an ordinary national road passing through villages. Not a motorway.


----------



## Sponsor

*Tenders planned to proceed in 2022








*


----------



## Patrako

According to ministry of infrastructure the A2 will get funding soon


----------



## Cookiefabric

Patrako said:


> According to ministry of infrastructure the A2 will get funding soon


Do you have any source? (just curious)


----------



## Patrako

Last sentence


Lombat said:


> Kupiłem. Nie warto.
> Wycinek przekazu który usłyszał ode mnie na czerwono. Ujął mniej niż wynika z wpisów @dominobb.
> View attachment 2557189


----------



## Kirt93

Sponsor said:


> Tenders planned to proceed in 2022


This list, split by the preparation status:

Ready for tender since 2020, but awaiting financing:

S16 east of Olsztyn (including 2nd carriageway on the existing single-carriageway part)
Ready for tender since 2021, but awaiting financing:

A2 Łódź – Warsaw, reconstruction to 2x3 (ready since mid-2021)
S7 north of Warsaw (ready since November 2021)
S74 west and east of Kielce (ready since mid-2021)
_Note: There exists 1 other A/S section falling into this category: S6 Szczecin western bypass, however due to the lack of financing it was decided to proceed with a design-only tender instead._
*Has just become ready for tender, preparation of tender documentation in progress:*

*S19 the last 3 sections between Rzeszów and SK border* (predesign finished this month)
*S19 north of Rzeszów, reconstruction from 2+1 to 2x2 *(predesign finished a week ago)
Not yet ready for tender (but expected to become so in 2021), has financing:

S12 Lublin – UA border
S17 Lublin – Zamość: 3 out of 5 sections
S74 inside Kielce (env. decision contested)
Not yet ready for tender (but expected to become so in 2021), and awaiting financing:

S10 reconstruction of the 2x2 section of DK10 east of Szczecin into an expressway
S11 Kępno – Olesno (env. decision contested)
S11 Bobolice – Szczecinek


----------



## Cookiefabric

I'm wondering for how long the S16's project(-s) will remain catching dust on the selves...


----------



## winn^

ChrisZwolle said:


> They generally have a lot of good ideas and improvements.
> 
> Some things I wouldn't implement are the horizontal lines on overhead signage (between arrows and control cities). I don't see the advantage, it's an unnecessary element and I know of no other country that uses them.
> 
> Also, the typeface is not ideal. In particular 'a' looks too similar to 'o' and 'e' is a little too dense, this type of design reduces legibility and makes it harder to recognize compared to other typefaces. From my own driving experience in Poland, this typeface is a bit too small to be on high-speed roads. However Polish placenames tend to be relatively long with complex letter combinations (such as szcz), which isn't ideal for quick recognition on signage. Especially for foreign drivers.
> 
> 
> S10-3 by European Roads, on Flickr


_I had lived in NL for 6 years and have left back to PL in 2015, when the small upgrade of signage in the Netherlands was being implemented gradually (e.g. bottom to top direction of lane indicator arrows instead of top-to bottom pointing; among others); so I think some of my points may be valid here._

Let me start by saying that to me, the Dutch signage system is the best in Europe (and I've driven many miles in most of European countries [non-EU ones included] ). That being said, and knowing how aesthetics-driven and logic-bound the Dutch are by DNA; I value your opinion greatly on this subject.
Hearing from a Dutch guy that there are only two major/minor imperfections in the Drogowskaz Classic concept is a high praise having the above in mind.

All this considered however: to me, DC is made in Poland, for Poland and thus is adjusted for the area and localized having polish high speed roads and users in mind predominantly. This can be considered a privilege or fanciness, depending on where the viewer is sitting atm of course.
The font is also something that you get used to and live with, and as far as i know the Polish font taken alone, is known to be very readable; and in EU top 3 for me personally, regardless of how absurd and inconsistent the current motorway/expressway signage in general is.

So long story short, some points here:


agreed: no other country has this kind of separator lines implemented, and this might be a bit confusing at first; when simplicity comes always first, also for drivers who cross borders often, ironically.
readability is top concern though, so from this perspective DC is clearly separating road numbers and lane indication from plain generic text: which is logical and readable, depending on what >this< type of driver wants to focus on in a given moment

I'd also like to share some observations of my own taken aback from replying directly:


the Dutch signage, outside of motorway network, has a significant fanciness on roundabouts, and while readable: is just as "confusing" as the polish font or conceptual separator lines
on motorways, Dutch signage is also perfectly localized, thus creating major/minor differences depending on individual point of views
there is no such thing as pure logic in our society in general, thus adjustment for locales (also automatic by human nature) is always welcome. after all, we do live in Europe.
implementing a unified signage system in Europe would be premature to say the least, thus carbon-copying solutions from other countries is never the anticipated and welcome solution
polish Drogowskaz Classic has its flaws, but in general also takes current GDDKiA approach to economy and twisted sense of (polish logic) making cuts when completely unnecessary; while ats time inflating costs in other areas (big signboards and fonts): thus there are no overhead early junction information (intended or not) signboards present: vertical roadside signs are posted instead.
GDDKiA is a state of mind
fonts and logic in aesthetics alone: use Dutch logic with Polish customized fonts and locales... and we have arrived.

_Sorry if this post might seem over-analyzed or unnecessarily descriptive; but just wanted to share my cents left outs from the empty Christmas wallet._


----------



## PovilD

Patrako said:


> Speaking of signage, what's yours (and all of others following the thread) about this concepct of signs?


Some comments.

Overhead advance signage:









I kinda like this standard more:









I also appreciate Danish overhead signage too:









What I mean, on overhead signage there should be always the exact amount of arrows as there are amount of lanes. Alternatives would involve no arrows at all or different design arrow styles.

Same could be said about this one (unless it's on slip road where each direction has only one lane):









My gut feeling says why GDKKIA might not like Drogowskaz Classic is the arrow designs for some signs. I think if you would use motorway arrow format from other countries (Germany, Netherlands, maybe even Denmark practices), it's more likely you have luck. I also would think what we can point at currently implemented signs and how they should be looking or(and) situated better. I think is better not to start from scratch, but searching for problems in current signage and point it to GDKKIA. I wonder if there were extensive discussions about signage in Poland with specialists working in GDKKIA, how much professionals (engineers and designers) were involved.

What I like about Drogowskaz Classics is that there are different font types are involved for shorter/longer text, also arrow design itself that resemble Western European practises. I also like junction name signs that is similar to that of The Netherlands. It made me think The Netherlands have copied junction name sign from Poland's Drogowskaz Classic. It also awares where we have motorway junction, and where is just exit from motorway.

Btw, in Lithuania. Longer arrows are used for advance overhead signs (300-500 m before junction) while we use short arrows for indicating lanes at junction (when exit lane starts). Poland's Drogowskaz Classic don't have this feature.


----------



## Sponsor

PovilD said:


> I don't see reasons why they couldn't do that, unless for some nationalism reasons to have "very own standard" (or some Dutch restrictions not to use their standard too extensively in other countries).


Just ignorance.



PovilD said:


> Btw, in Lithuania. Longer arrows are used for advance overhead signs (300-500 m before junction) while we use short arrows for indicating lanes at junction (when exit lane starts). Poland's Drogowskaz Classic don't have this feature.


Dutch system is good at this. 

1 - 600 m








1 - split moment









2 - 600/900 m








2 - split












ChrisZwolle said:


> From my own driving experience in Poland, this typeface is a bit too small to be on high-speed roads.


And especially too small on regular roads and streets where you tend to use more text. Once I made this comparison of what font size can we get using given space (Drogowskaz vs. DIN):








_Except for maintance on workdays 7-10_


----------



## Cookiefabric

Your example shows the only (?) weakness in the system: If there is an exit near this point (Knooppunt / interchange), it causes a lot of confusion -- especially for foreign drivers, thinking that the most right lane also continue (but it's not) ; causing a standstill line behind them (wanted to merge back)

Example A4 Schiedam -> Hoogvliet, KM-marker: 70,7 Re 
--------

For Signage in Poland: Please stop using "whole speeches" on traffic signs. Even when I'm driving 80 km/h I'm still not getting the point.
2nd wish: I hope that GDDKiA also start using digital pictures on their Dynamic Sign (like photo 1) and keeping it simple. 

Little explanation: Photo 1 shows on the right side of the road a systematic plain picture of the traffic situation on the ring of Amsterdam. When the picture was taken, every part shows white. White means that traffic is normally flowing.
When traffic flow is interrupted OR far slower then regular, that piece will turn red
The arrow pointing upwards means "you are here"


----------



## Strzala




----------



## winn^

Sponsor said:


> And especially too small on regular roads and streets where you tend to use more text. Once I made this comparison of what font size can we get using given space (Drogowskaz vs. DIN):
> 
> _Except for maintance on workdays 7-10_


some remarks from my end: 

- the information itself, when translated into English, is short and simple and even the small font would suffice (if it wasn't posted on a high speed road)
so there is an error related to Polish phrasing and/or Polish law; which could require this exact kind of unnecessary phrasing.
if kept simple, this sign would read in Polish something along those lines:

"Nie dotyczy
zaopatrzenia
PN-PT od 7 do 10."
So this kind of information fits in just three lines.


if you mean the font is too small in general, also on motorway or "droga krajowa / wojewódzka" signage; then I don't agree here
in my opinion, Polish typeface can be left alone; as long as phrasing is kept short and to the point on this kind of "additive" white/black signs;
and is kept to Droga Krajowa size standard on motorways. some adjustment to font size can be made however, when longer customized (e.g. town names) text is required to fit on the sign in given circumstances




Cookiefabric said:


> Little explanation: Photo 1 shows on the right side of the road a systematic plain picture of the traffic situation on the ring of Amsterdam. When the picture was taken, every part shows white. White means that traffic is normally flowing.
> When traffic flow is interrupted OR far slower then regular, that piece will turn red
> The arrow pointing upwards means "you are here"


I would consider this an overkill on Polish roads. Traffic doesnt (yet) need to be regulated so strictly as in the heavily urbanized Netherlands. I would welcome however dynamic signs to be posted more densely, with lane indication when necessary in a given scenario.


----------



## PovilD

In theory, I've always liked those tables under the sign, specifying exactly on which circumstances the sign applies which was often lacked in Lithuanian roads (in terms of various exemptions for certain people like staff...), but in practise there are so much info at times that is impossible to read while driving. It's way worse if such amount of info is put on motorways.

There could be such info that involves exemptions and stuff, but with less text, more symbols, etc.


----------



## Sponsor

@winn^
Phrasing may require more characters and dedicated typeface should meet that. 'Drogowskaz' fails when it comes to introduce any longer text. Then it requires more space hence the size needs to be reduced.

I've made a comparison. Each word is set to the same width. Look how the 'polish' one is lower comparing to the rest. And in my opinion it's definitely the least legible in terms of graphic design, shape etc.











The _Drogowskaz _typeface was probably introduced to simplify the production process. That's why it has that template-like shape with little curves.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

S19 is getting rotational panel signs as well. But what for?


----------



## Patrako

It's probably a part of traffic managment system. Signs are supposed to rotate into posistion telling drivers to take the next exit. Usually this would be done by phisically blocking the road by GDDKiA or police vehicle
Here's the official animation of the system


----------



## Sponsor

Patrako said:


> It's probably a part of traffic managment system. Signs are supposed to rotate into posistion telling drivers to take the next exit.


I believe we are all aware of that. The question is why it's been introduced *there*? Shouldn't them be posted around significant objects like tunnels, bridges or sections with high traffic volumes?


----------



## Patrako

Sponsor said:


> The question is why it's been introduced *there*?


Because that doesn't make any sense. Have you ever seen GDDKiA do anything rationally? 🙃

Edit: I didn't read the whole post. 
Watch the video, they have explained it


----------



## ChrisZwolle

We have experience with this type of signs in the Netherlands since the 1990s, they were first implemented for shoulder lane driving purposes, which expanded capacity from 2 to 3 lanes during rush hour. 

These mechanical rotational signs are known to malfunction: over time, dirt builds up, or the mechanical components fail. The worst case scenario is a partially rotated sign, which leads to an unreadable sign, where neither side can be understood. 

The problem with most type of electronics on motorways is that their cost is often paid for in the initial construction, but no budget is reserved long-term to maintain them. Electronic and mechanical components of roads have a shorter lifespan than the road itself. This is also an expensive problem with tunnel safety equipment, the cost of that has ballooned significantly after new EU directives were implemented after the late 1990s and early 2000s tunnel fires in the Alps. 

In the Netherlands, the A73 tunnels near Roermond may close indefinitely, as the speed detection (which also detects wrong-way drivers) is near failing point, but no spare components are available, even though the tunnel is only 14 years old.


----------



## Patrako

Speaking of traffic managment stuff, it came to mind:
Yestreday GDDKiA posted this compilation from S2 tunnel. Every case like that will get reported to the police


----------



## Sponsor

Patrako said:


> Watch the video, they have explained it


It only explains how does it work. An accident may occur anywhere. Yet they don't introduce this type of signage anywhere.


----------



## geogregor

Patrako said:


> Speaking of traffic managment stuff, it came to mind:
> Yestreday GDDKiA posted this compilation from S2 tunnel. Every case like that will get reported to the police



It is astonishing how many brainless morons are out there...


----------



## RipleyLV

Patrako said:


> Speaking of traffic managment stuff, it came to mind:
> Yestreday GDDKiA posted this compilation from S2 tunnel. Every case like that will get reported to the police


Wow, and that's just two weeks in operation


----------



## Patrako

Sponsor said:


> It only explains how does it work. An accident may occur anywhere. Yet they don't introduce this type of signage anywhere.


My bad, i thought more about this graphic


----------



## The Wild Boy

Can't they use digital screens on signs as well? In the coming years we should see more from the Micro LED technology, that several big companies are investing info. From what is known so far, Micro LED may have the most durability of all other panel types and can last much longer.


----------



## kokomo

ChrisZwolle said:


> shoulder lane driving purposes, which expanded capacity from 2 to 3 lanes *during rush hour*.


Hahaha, you should be aware that in other latitudes (such as Argentina) this is a standard practice throughout the whole day in spite of numerous signs prohibiting it and tiny speed bumps, usually in a number of 3, placed every 150/200 mts to discourage such practice.
As always, the need to reach first without regard of others and the lack of enforcement (ie fines) makes this something very difficult to erradicate


----------



## Patrako

Recently we talked about S7 in Warsaw- an update about that
The decision granting the final enviromental permit has been appealed, now that case is going to be handled by the voivodship's administrative court. 
As for S17 
The northern part of Warsaw eastern bypass in still awaiting to be handled by the voivodship's administrative court. It is supposed to happen in on January 19th.
The southern part got it permit restored, but the rulling has been appealed to supreme administrtative court.


----------



## Chris80678

There are some good photos of A1 (mainly at Kamieńsk exit) on this page (posts #9,685 and #9,684):









[A1] Tuszyn - Częstochowa Północ


Ubiegłoroczne fotki z powrotu z Radomska: 3621. Radomsko, ul. Brzeźnicka (DK42), skrzyżowanie z ul. Łódzką, prowadzącą do węzła Radomsko, widok od wschodu. 31.12.2021, godz. 12:56. Dziwne, że nie przebudowali tego skrzyżowania w kształcie litery T na rondo .W głębi wschodni najazd na WD-332...




www.skyscrapercity.com


----------



## Eulanthe

As a side note, the government has all but confirmed the plan to extend tolling to all motorways.

Minister Adamczyk: wszystkie autostrady w Polsce będą płatne. Bo nie stać nas na darmowe 

They're saying that all motorways will be tolled, but after the next election. I'm surprised that they didn't use the introduction of e-toll to toll the A2 between Warsaw and Łódź, although that might be explained by their very fragile grip on power in the Łódź Voivodship.


----------



## Patrako

The A2 beetwen Łódź and Warsaw is a complicated topic.
When Piotrków Trybunalski Zachód JCT opens with all of the relations, it's going to allow driver to forgo A2 in favour of S8. Goverment also wants to build connenction beetwen Łódź and Sulejów as a part of expressway. Nowosolna and Brzeziny bypasses are going to be build sooner or later, incresing the usibility of DK72, which can also effect A2 traffic. High speed Rail will also cause the change in the transport between those cities. I think it will be interesting to see, how this route changes in next 10-20 years


----------



## Cookiefabric

That makes me wonder what kind of tax you pay when owning a car? (and are there any plans to change it?)
Also: Spain has already showed that toll roads are not very much popular, especially when you leave S-class road uncharged


----------



## Patrako

Cookiefabric said:


> That makes me wonder what kind of tax you pay when owning a car? (and are there any plans to change it?)


I don't think that there are any taxes for "owning" a car.
There are numerous taxes you pay (either directly, or through margin put by the seller) while buying fuel partially they fund the KFD and FK (funds for road and railway respectively). One of the most famous polish musician even sang one that 80% petrol prices are taxes.


Patrako said:


> The A2 beetwen Łódź and Warsaw is a complicated topic.
> When Piotrków Trybunalski Zachód JCT opens with all of the relations, it's going to allow driver to forgo A2 in favour of S8. Goverment also want to build connenction beetwen Łódź and Sulejów as a part of expressway. Nowosolna and Brzeziny bypasses are going to be build sooner or later, incresing the usibility of DK72, which can also effect A2 traffic. High speed Rail will also cause the change in the transport between those cities. I think it will be interesting to see, how this route changes in next 10-20 years


I obviously forgot to mention the construction of Łódź cross city line, which may bring more trains to Łódź (now Łódź is not handled by EIP trains and most long distance trains travel through Czestochowa rather then Łódź.


----------



## Cookiefabric

Current average fuel price in NL nowadays: about 10 PLN (with the biggest chunk as tax) -- Not something I would recommand for Poland though.
I did also notice: The cheapest fuel stations in Poland are able to compete with LUX

The minister has still many other options then turning every Autostrady into a told road.


----------



## Chris80678

A good summary of the roads expected to open in Poland in 2022:






(Subtitles in English provided)


----------



## PovilD

Chris80678 said:


> A good summary of the roads expected to open in Poland in 2022:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Subtitles in English provided)


If I understand correctly, S61 all section should be open from LT border to S8 expressway by end of 2022, except Lomza bypass and one section near S8.
First works (hopefully) should start on Lithuanian side of Via Baltica between Marijampolė and Kalvarija this year. It is already seen as a little bit with disgrace here that we lag behind a little bit.
Interestingly Lomza Bypass may create situation when road from Kaunas to Warsaw will be fully completed at almost same time in 2024-2025, despite Poles being first in construction, but Lomza Bypass could potentially be last section, we will see.

My impression, tbh, that Lomza has some weird karma  It's one of the largest towns for Lithuanians between border and Warsaw right now, and it creates contrast after relatively nice Augustow resort.


----------



## Patrako

PovilD said:


> If I understand correctly, S61 all section should be open from LT border to S8 expressway by end of 2022, except Lomza bypass and one section near S8.


That's right. Section near S8 is in theory supposed to open in 2023, but it might be late due to problems with obtainting build permit


----------



## sponge_bob

Patrako said:


> That's right. Section near S8 is in theory supposed to open in 2023, but it might be late due to problems with obtainting build permit


In general, if a contractor cannot design a road then they cannot build one either so I reckon that contract is heading for a termination within the next year based on past history.


----------



## Patrako

In their press release, GDDKIA said that it took so long due to two things

Covid
Doubts about the length of acoustic panels
I wouldn't blame it on the Palaqua, they are a good company. Also, in Poland very few, if none, do projects by them self. They usually hire someone to do that for them


----------



## Cookiefabric

Well, the DK63 from Zambrow and the region town drive through of Lomza isn't that bad (the 2nd lane does help a lot), however I would be more then glad to bypass the town of Grajewo.
If the train wasn't enough reason to built up traffic, then the intersection DK61 x DK65 made it so. (Ofc.. the traffic sh*t in Suwalki was far worse, but since the full opening of the S61 bypass the traffic issue is gone)


----------



## Kirt93

@Cookiefabric When the section Ełk-South – Szczuczyn gets opened, it might probably already make sense to go S61 - DK16 - DK65 - S61 (although it might depend on the status of reconstruction of DK65 in Ełk), hence bypassing Grajewo even while the section near Ełk is still missing itself.


----------



## Chris80678

Getting the S61 completed from Suwałki to the Lithuanian border (30 km or 19 miles) will help enormously

September 2022 is estimated completion


----------



## Cookiefabric

Kirt93 said:


> @Cookiefabric When the section Ełk-South – Szczuczyn gets opened, it might probably already make sense to go S61 - DK16 - DK65 - S61 (although it might depend on the status of reconstruction of DK65 in Ełk), hence bypassing Grajewo even while the section near Ełk is still missing itself.


I hope that Trakcja keep up their advance progress -- meaning that by the start of the summer there will be a driveable S61 (1 lane/2 lanes per direction with lower speed limit). That will be already a good improvement


----------



## Chris80678

Cookiefabric said:


> I hope that Trakcja keep up their advance progress -- meaning that by the start of the summer there will be a driveable S61 (1 lane/2 lanes per direction with lower speed limit). That will be already a good improvement


Is completion by March 2022 (date shown on Siskom's map) realistic though?

The video below shows the current state of things on this part of S61:






Still a lot to do!


----------



## Eulanthe

Cookiefabric said:


> The minister has still many other options then turning every Autostrady into a told road.


Part of the problem is that tolling only motorways will result in absurdities, such as the S3 being toll free but the A1 being tolled. Fuel prices are already a serious issue here, which is why the government is talking about cutting VAT on fuel to 8% from 23%. If that happens, I'd expect petrol stations near the borders to become besieged, especially on the German border. 

On a slightly related note, the A2 is now becoming increasingly unaffordable. It's now nearly 100zł for Strzyków-Świecko, with Konin-Nowy Tomyśl being charged at 75zł.


----------



## Patrako

I think that @Lombat some time ago retweeted a "study" on how petrol taxation works. The conculsion was that Poland is near the lowest possible taxation. So lowering taxes to lowest possible won't help as much as goverment makes it seem


Eulanthe said:


> Strzyków-Świecko


Stryków, not Strzyków. 
I always wonder, whose worse? AWSA or Stalexport?


----------



## Cookiefabric

Eulanthe said:


> Part of the problem is that tolling only motorways will result in absurdities, such as the S3 being toll free but the A1 being tolled. Fuel prices are already a serious issue here, which is why the government is talking about cutting VAT on fuel to 8% from 23%. If that happens, I'd expect petrol stations near the borders to become besieged, especially on the German border.
> 
> [..]


Let's do the math (feel free to correct when noting an error):
Fuelo.net: Poland's average Euro95 E10(?) is 5,80 PLN / liter (about 1,28 euro / liter)
Clever-tanken.de: Brandenburg's average Super 95 E10 is 1,62 /liter (about 7,36 PLN / liter)

EDIT: Didn't read properly 🤐
Well.. at the least the rebuilt DK92 near Torzym does have so many gas stations, they should be able to handle that load

EDIT 2: About Toll prices -- It's slowly getting into the direction of France

-----------------------------


Chris80678 said:


> Is completion by March 2022 (date shown on Siskom's map) realistic though?
> 
> The video below shows the current state of things on this part of S61:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still a lot to do!


Trakcja is building the section north of this (including ~3 KM of S16). 
The quoted video is belonging to PORR Bau and a Polish company and I'm thinking that PORR's section will need until the beginning of summer to get it completed (seems really like they're behind schedule)


----------



## sponge_bob

Cookiefabric said:


> (seems really like they're behind schedule)


Is this winter colder compared to the last 2 or 3 winters. ??


----------



## Tonik1

A50/S50 around planned STH airport. From S7 to A2 it will have motorway standard.












__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477936185796354049


----------



## The Wild Boy

Tonik1 said:


> A50/S50 around planned STH airport
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477936185796354049


Is that in regards to the outer ring that is going to get constructed? 

If yes, then this shows how important this project really is.


----------



## Tonik1

The Wild Boy said:


> Is that in regards to the outer ring that is going to get constructed?
> 
> If yes, then this shows how important this project really is.


Yes

They also predict that A2 even after expansion to 3 lanes in each direction will be not enough in the longer run.


----------



## sponge_bob

You will need to upgrade the A2 to a 5+5 east of the new airport with traffic like that 


Tonik1 said:


>


----------



## Tonik1

sponge_bob said:


> You will need to upgrade the A2 to a 5+5 east of the new airport with traffic like that


Most likely new parallel road to A2


----------



## Lombat

sponge_bob said:


> You will need to upgrade the A2 to a 5+5 east of the new airport with traffic like that





Tonik1 said:


> Most likely new parallel road to A2


Actually, You are Right. That's exactly what they've come to the conclusion.


> An analysis of the necessity to build a new road, possibly parallel to the existing A2 motorway, will be required




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1477367829649309706








File upload and sharing. Large file transfers. Free online cloud storage.


Visit this link to download: StudiumKorytarzowe_S10_OAW.pdf and 1 other file




files.fm


----------



## sponge_bob

If you look at the traffic projection 'bulges' around the airport they are predicting an AADT of at around 50- 60k a day from Warsaw to the Airport. The main traffic counter at Dublin Airport showed 60k AADT at the M1 airport link in 2019 which also serves some business parks located near that airport.

However. Dublin Airport had* 33m passengers in 2019* and it has no rapid transit link to the centre where the Warsaw central airport is supposed to have 2 or 3 rail links ....fast and slow ones....to Warsaw. I'd well believe that 30k AADT will appear but that is the capacity of an extra single lane in each direction on a motorway.

On the other hand I remember proposals to link high speed lines to most of Poland via that new Airport some time back.


----------



## geogregor

sponge_bob said:


> If you look at the traffic projection 'bulges' around the airport they are predicting an AADT of at around 50- 60k a day from Warsaw to the Airport. The main traffic counter at Dublin Airport showed 60k AADT at the M1 airport link in 2019 which also serves some business parks located near that airport.
> 
> However. Dublin Airport had* 33m passengers in 2019* and it has no rapid transit link to the centre where the Warsaw central airport is supposed to have 2 or 3 rail links ....fast and slow ones....to Warsaw. I'd well believe that 30k AADT will appear but that is the capacity of an extra single lane in each direction on a motorway.
> 
> On the other hand I remember proposals to link high speed lines to most of Poland via that new Airport some time back.



The problem is that nobody really knows which component of the whole grand transport plan will be build first. Will it be the airport? The railways? The road network? I simply don't believe that all this will be build on time and opened at once. Judging how things go in Poland the easiest and quickest thing to build might be the road component. Then possibly the airport. Railways will probably be the last, maybe apart from some rudimentary basic link. Poland simply doesn't have know-how to push massive railway expansion through planning, environmental approval, detailed design and construction. 

A2 widening should be fairly easy and quick. Basic links to the airport probably as well. As for some extra road just from the airport to Warsaw, I hope it will not happen and they really push for proper rail link instead.


----------



## sponge_bob

Another comparison is Helsinki which is the size of Chopin. This expanded a lot in recent years because it is a Finnair hub and Finnair are in the business of flying a lot of Asian routes long haul like Aer Lingus do to the US. They both use smaller planes to collect passengers around Europe and to then fill large planes longhaul in their hubs. 

The thing about that model is that passengers never leave the airport EXCEPT by plane.  So if LOT copy those airlines it means passenger expansion does not spill out 1:1 groundside and requiring infra to move them.

Against that Dublins main road link carried 60k AADT despite a large express bus network centred on that airport 24/7 to all corners of Ireland...but no rapid transit rail to the city itself.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Eulanthe said:


> On a slightly related note, the A2 is now becoming increasingly unaffordable. It's now nearly 100zł for Strzyków-Świecko, with Konin-Nowy Tomyśl being charged at 75zł.


What is up with that? A2 Konin - Poznan is now 50 PLN / € 11 for only 65 kilometers. That's even more expensive than French or Spanish toll roads.


----------



## Patrako

AWSA is allowed to set any price they want.


----------



## Wolfiq

ChrisZwolle said:


> What is up with that? A2 Konin - Poznan is now 50 PLN / € 11 for only 65 kilometers. That's even more expensive than French or Spanish toll roads.


In early 90s Poland granted two concessions for building or renovation of a motorway on a very unfavourable conditions for the state. The deals are mostly secret for some reason. Later when we got richer, especially after entering EU we mostly stopped doing that. The other motorway with such a high tolls is the one between Katowice and Kraków.


----------



## Eulanthe

ChrisZwolle said:


> What is up with that? A2 Konin - Poznan is now 50 PLN / € 11 for only 65 kilometers. That's even more expensive than French or Spanish toll roads.


It's absolutely ridiculous. It gets even worse when you look at individual sections - 25 PLN / €5.50 for Poznań-Wschód to Konin. 

It's the combination of various things, however.

1. Autostrada Wielkopolska (Konin-Nowy Tomyśl) is responsible for the upgrading and maintenance of the Poznań bypass. The upgrading to 3 lanes between Poznan-Zachód to Poznań-Wschód is financed entirely by them.

2. Part of the route is also open and free: the most notable is the section between Sługocin and Konin, which is de facto free and covered by the toll charged at PPO Ładek.

3. As Wolfiq says, the A2 was seen as such an important piece of road that the state was willing to allow a concession on such favourable terms. The state couldn't get it built, and there was a certain desperation - the DK2 was heavily overloaded, especially through Poznań. I'd also point out that at least 20% of the motorway is controlled by the Polish state, but that fact is kept quiet for various reasons. The original consortium was also through participants which were at least partially (if not completely) state-controlled.

4. I don't know how it is today, but about 10 years ago, the A2 was definitely underused compared to the original traffic forecasts.

The whole story is described here. To the best of my knowledge, this is factual: Liberadzki: To nie rząd SLD przesądził o tym, że ta autostrada jest tak droga

I'd also point out that Katowice-Kraków is far more controversial. The motorway already existed, and all that was required was to bring it up to modern standards. The A2 in comparison was built from scratch.

I think it's fair to say that the A2 got built because of allowing such high tolls in the future.

As for the 'new airport', it won't be built. It's just a project designed to funnel a large amount of cash into the pockets of politicians.


----------



## Patrako

Eulanthe said:


> I'd also point out that Katowice-Kraków is far more controversial. The motorway already existed, and all that was required was to bring it up to modern standards. The A2 in comparison was built from scratch.


I think that the Jeleń juction is a sad example of how horrible terms of that agreement are


----------



## kostas97

When is the A1 segment from Czestochowa to Lodz going to be completed? Traffic is now continuing through one carriageway, correct?


----------



## Patrako

One carriageway is used only from south of Piotrków to Kamieńsk


----------



## Kirt93

@kostas97 It will be fully completed in about a year, but at the moment each direction already has (at least) 2 continuous lanes provided on the whole length, and all traffic lights / at-grade intersections are gone as well, so driving it is perfectly pleasant already.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kirt93 said:


> so driving it is perfectly pleasant already.


I think this is a huge gamechanger for traffic in Central Poland.

GDDKiA's traffic count data showed a decline in traffic in the Piotrków area compared to 2015, while it increased (substantially) pretty much anywhere else. I think this was due to the excessive congestion caused by the construction on A1 in that area (temporary roundabouts and conflict points).

Drivers will find different routes if this is what you have to deal with every day:


----------



## Patrako

Great photo of Lubelska Junction (A2/S2/S17) in Warsaw posted by @bronco10 in the polish forum


----------



## Patrako

Corridors for planned S7 south of Kraków


----------



## PovilD

Patrako said:


> Corridors for planned S7 south of Kraków
> View attachment 2694188


My first choice would be reconstruction of current 2x2 route.
My second choice would be Myslenice-Siepraw-Krakow Wieliczka (light magenta, pink-like color route). The old 2x2 in this case should be made more humane for surround towns. There are lots of unsafe junctions, and I would not justify them even if AADT would fall due to the traffic moving on the new route.

Dark blue route forms weird Outer bypass of Krakow, while Myslenice-Targowisko doesn't make sense if build as sole alternative for S7.

Brown route Myslenice-Krakow Biezanow could be seperate expressway along with existing DK7/S7 route if refurbished to S7.


----------



## krzysiek997

PovilD said:


> My first choice would be reconstruction of current 2x2 route.
> My second choice would be Myslenice-Siepraw-Krakow Wieliczka (light magenta, pink-like color route). The old 2x2 in this case should be made more humane for surround towns. There are lots of unsafe junctions, and I would not justify them even if AADT would fall due to the traffic moving on the new route.
> 
> Dark blue junction forms weird Outer bypass of Krakow, while Myslenice-Targowisko doesn't make sense if build as sole alternative for S7.
> 
> Brown route Myslenice-Krakow Biezanow could be seperate expressway along with existing DK7/S7 route if refurbished to S7.


Kraków Bieżanów junction is prepared to lengthen S7 in the southern direction. brown version.

I agree that both Brown and Blue should eventually be created in the end.


----------



## Patrako

Update:
GDDKiA has published the summary of the study on S7
*The whole route is going to be 2x3*
The final corridors








Liczba Tuneli = number of tunnels
Długość tuneli = length of the tunnels
The last cell in each row is the precentage of the route in the tunnels


----------



## zakrzemarski

Chris80678 said:


> Photos of S19 Niedrzwica to Wilkołaz on this page [S19] Lublin - Rzeszów
> 
> (post #11,242 by @Michael J)
> 
> A visualisation of S3 Świnoujście - Troszyn. Due to be completed in 2024


Is it planned to build a viaduct over the roundabout towards the tunnel?


----------



## Patrako

As far as i'm concerned it's not planned


----------



## Cookiefabric

Patrako said:


> Update:
> GDDKiA has published the summary of the study on S7
> *The whole route is going to be 2x3*
> The final corridors
> View attachment 2697218
> 
> Liczba Tuneli = number of tunnels
> Długość tuneli = length of the tunnels
> The last cell in each row is the precentage of the route in the tunnels
> View attachment 2697219
> 
> View attachment 2697224


Shortest route and the cheapest one is usually the preferred option. In this case it's most likely that option 1 will be the preferred route


----------



## Lombat

zakrzemarski said:


> Is it planned to build a viaduct over the roundabout towards the tunnel?


This will be possible in the future from the S3 side.
From the tunnel side there is no space left for that in the design.


----------



## geogregor

Lombat said:


> This will be possible in the future from the S3 side.
> From the tunnel side there is no space left for that in the design.


I'm confused. There will be viaduct from the S3 to the tunnel but not the other way around?


----------



## Lombat

There won't be any viaduct for now, but it is planned.
The design of S3 is prepared to easily build it later.
The tunnel design is not prepared for that, so if Świnoujście will someday decide to construct it, they would have to rebuilt a lot of what is now almost ready.
The reason is Świnoujście came up with the idea of the viaduct too late to inculude it in the tunnel's design.

_Please do not repeat, quote or even mention in PL SSC (or FB/TT/else media) this informations._


----------



## geogregor

Advantage of keeping roundabout is that it will slow and calm traffic arriving from fast, 2+2 motorway type road to rather narrow 1+1 tunnel.

What is the planned speed limit in the tunnel? 80km/h?


----------



## Chris80678

DEL


----------



## Kemo

That's not true, see post #21,007


----------



## Chris80678

Well, the article evidently got its facts wrong too


----------



## Strzala




----------



## sponge_bob

Any sign of Poland using the new name for the new EU Core corridor which is the "Aegean Baltic Corridor" rather than Via Carpathia?????


----------



## Patrako

We don't even use Via Carpatia anymore.
We use this thing 🙃


----------



## PovilD

Patrako said:


> We don't even use Via Carpatia anymore.
> We use this thing 🙃
> View attachment 2722325


How do you plan to call Via Baltica?

Dangerous Suwalki Corridor Autobahn?


----------



## Strzala

sponge_bob said:


> Any sign of Poland using the new name for the new EU Core corridor which is the "Aegean Baltic Corridor" rather than Via Carpathia?????


For what? It's only a names, you can change it in one day. Otherwise in few places both corridors have different courses.


----------



## PovilD

Strzala said:


> For what? It's only a names, you can change it in one day. Otherwise in few places both corridors have different courses.


I wonder if according to this map, E85 could be rerouted from Belarus/Ukraine to Poland/Slovakia/Hungary? For example, E85 in Belarus goes through second class roads. It would be biggest lose for Ukraine, I guess, if E85 gets rerouted.

In Lithuania, I imagine E28 rerouted from Vilnius to Kaliningrad via Kaunas, just A1 to have E number, but our A5 would have three E-roads E28/E67/E85 at least between Kaunas and Marijampolė, and if we want E28 to go via S16, then hundreds of kilometers through Suwalki corridor would need three E-road routes


----------



## Wolfiq

PovilD said:


> I wonder if according to this map, E85 could be rerouted from Belarus/Ukraine to Poland/Slovakia/Hungary? For example, E85 in Belarus goes through second class roads.


European roads are supposed to to link countries, so rerouting probably isn't an option.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Changes to E-roads are administered by UNECE.

E-roads are not defined down to the exact road segment, but a general route via cities. So I think road authorities can move an E-number from a two-lane road to a new motorway without having to change the UN treaty. However if they would reroute it via different cities than the ones defined, it may require a change to be approved by UNECE.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^It should be E79 north of Kosice


----------



## sponge_bob

God, some poor Latvian driving to the sun could strangle himself if he had to call for an ambulance ......and they asked him where he was.  


Patrako said:


> We don't even use Via Carpatia anymore.
> View attachment 2722325


----------



## PovilD

sponge_bob said:


> God, some poor Latvian driving to the sun could strangle himself if he had to call for an ambulance ......and they asked him where he was.


I would say it's Autobahn Lech Kaczynski near X


----------



## Wolfiq

It's worth noting that RP is shortcut of _Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej, _though often RP is used even in formal language.


----------



## Strzala

sponge_bob said:


> God, some poor Latvian driving to the sun could strangle himself if he had to call for an ambulance ......and they asked him where he was.


If his IQ will be higher than amoeba's, he should say: 'I'm at S19 expressway, at 56 kilometre 6 hundred metre, direction Lublin' :


Photo by @Tytuss


----------



## Theijs

sponge_bob said:


> God, some poor Latvian driving to the sun could strangle himself if he had to call for an ambulance ......and they asked him where he was.


Which reminds of an old joke of a non-Slavic tourist visiting Moscow and asking the hotel staff: how do I get back to the hotel?
They answered: take the metro and follow the sign Выход в город.


----------



## Chris80678

DEL


----------



## Chris80678

A pretty view of Kamienna Góra Północ exit under construction on S3:










Photo posted by @dromek in the Polish forum


----------



## Patrako

Do anyone of you know the reason why this section is so late?
It was supposed to be finished in 2021


----------



## Chris80678

A photo of viaduct to carry S17 over DK92 at Lubelska exit:










Photo posted by @bronco10 10 in the Polish forum


----------



## Tonik1

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1489589378884280324


----------



## SRC_100

A retrospection of the construction of a tunnel in Świnoujście between the islands of Uznam and Wolin under the Świna River





The current advancement of the tunnel construction


----------



## Patrako

I have forgotten to post it here before.
The roundabout connecting A2,S14 and DK91 in Emilia gained an eviromental permit. It will be one of only two junctions of highways where there are collisionial relations (the other being the JCT beetwen S7 and S22).
The project of the roundabout posted by @Tomkisiel in the polish forum


----------



## The Wild Boy

What do you mean with collusion relations?


----------



## Patrako

Maybe there is a better word for it. 
I meant that on most junctions there is no way to have a collinson, other than side to side.


----------



## geogregor

The Wild Boy said:


> What do you mean with collusion relations?


He means that the junction will not be grade separated. It just will be classic roundabout.


----------



## o.szydzyk

Tonik1 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1489589378884280324


Even promo renders are made from left lane perspective, when right lane is empty. In the picture corner should be said: "not for education purposes. Dont do it at home".


----------



## PovilD

geogregor said:


> He means that the junction will not be grade separated. It just will be classic roundabout.


I will try to describe grade separation visually. For right side traffic ofc 

I think I wouldn't be too wrong if classical* grade separation (more correct term here would be "free flow" or "grade separated road") is when road design follow this pattern (more or less):








At most cases there are separated acceleration and deceleration lanes, most of them situated at least few kilometers from each other (though combined ones do happens like in the picture).

*sometimes there are T junctions too without grade separated junction, but these are not classical feature of "grade separated highway". Most often non-junction exit is when entering road side rest areas.


----------



## Chris80678

A video showing the ongoing construction of S7 between Napierki and Mława i.e. work towards getting second carriageway opened in spring 2022 (???)






Here is the official project website:






Budowa drogi S7 - odc. Napierki - Mława


Opis kontraktu Początek projektowanego odcinka S7 zlokalizowany jest w km 224+762 istniejącej DK7. Koniec odcinka jest prowadzony w nowym przebiegu i nie ...




www.s7napierki-mlawa.pl


----------



## geogregor

PovilD said:


> I will try to describe grade separation visually. For right side traffic ofc
> 
> I think I wouldn't be too wrong if classical* grade separation (more correct term here would be "free flow" or "grade separated road") is when road design follow this pattern (more or less):
> View attachment 2748032
> 
> At most cases there are separated acceleration and deceleration lanes, most of them situated at least few kilometers from each other (though combined ones do happens like in the picture).
> 
> *sometimes there are T junctions too without grade separated junction, but these are not classical feature of "grade separated highway". Most often non-junction exit is when entering road side rest areas.


"Grade separated" junction (sometimes abbreviated as GSJ) and "free flow" junction are not exactly the same things.

The first one is a junction where the mainline is free flowing and it is connected via ramps to over-bridge or under-bridge. Once off the mainline the traffic can meet the crossing road via traffic lights, one roundabout (design popular in the UK), two separated roundabouts (design popular in Poland) or just with "STOP" signs (many rural exits in the US).

The free flow junction is a junction where all the relations use free flowing ramps, like for example the "turbine" or the "stack"

The plans posted by @Patrako are none of the above, it is just standard, at grade, roundabout. It is not popular feature on Polish expressways but quite common in the UK.


----------



## sponge_bob

geogregor said:


> The free flow junction is a junction where all the relations use free flowing ramps, like for example the "turbine" or the "stack"


"Stack" no, it also has a roundabout where you have to stop for certain movements. It is a _partial free flow _junction only.


----------



## PovilD

geogregor said:


> "Grade separated" junction (sometimes abbreviated as GSJ) and "free flow" junction are not exactly the same things.
> 
> The first one is a junction where the mainline is free flowing and it is connected via ramps to over-bridge or under-bridge. Once off the mainline the traffic can meet the crossing road via traffic lights, one roundabout (design popular in the UK), two separated roundabouts (design popular in Poland) or just with "STOP" signs (many rural exits in the US).
> 
> The free flow junction is a junction where all the relations use free flowing ramps, like for example the "turbine" or the "stack"


Ok, thanks for correction. I meant free flow traffic only for highway, where you don't hit roundabout, traffic light or Stop sign. Junctions are grade separated to maintain free flow traffic on the highway (freeway, motorway). Free flow junctions are only those which you described. Usually those happen between two motorways.


----------



## geogregor

sponge_bob said:


> "Stack" no, it also has a roundabout where you have to stop for certain movements. It is a _partial free flow _junction only.


Real stack junction/interchange has free flowing ramps in every direction:









Stack interchange - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













What you mean is grade separated roundabout, like this below:









This is not a stack interchange.


----------



## Chris80678

Photo of signage at Strzebielno exit on the S6 (Gdynia - Strzebielino):










Szczecin is also signed because for now the S6 will end at this exit when this stretch opens in the summer (???)

Photo posted by @Kantrzyn in the Polish forum


----------



## PovilD

Chris80678 said:


> Photo of signage at Strzebielno exit on the S6 (Gdynia - Strzebielino):
> 
> View attachment 2758293
> 
> 
> Szczecin is also signed because for now the S6 will end at this exit when this stretch opens in the summer (???)
> 
> Photo posted by @Kantrzyn in the Polish forum


If it's brand new sign, looks like it has exit number plate on the exit.

We talked before in this thread that some recently built motorways doesn't have exit number plates above signs, except for distance and junction signs.

I wonder if they resumed to properly mark exit numbers?


----------



## Patrako

PovilD said:


> I wonder if they resumed to properly mark exit numbers?


it's kind of complicated
From official info


> Do czasu modyfikacji przepisów, oznakowanie eksperymentalne montowane będzie wyłącznie na odcinkach dróg, nad którymi prace rozpoczęły się przed 30 maja 2017 r


Which translates to


> Until the law is changed, the experimental signage will be used on road, on which works began before May 30th, 2017





https://www.gov.pl/web/gddkia/oznakowanie-drog-krajowych-prezentujemy-wyniki-ankiety


----------



## sponge_bob

geogregor said:


> Real stack junction/interchange has free flowing ramps in every direction.


A 4 level stack, yes. My example was a "3 level stack" also known as a Stackabout, used on less busy junctions.


----------



## PovilD

Patrako said:


> it's kind of complicated
> From official info
> 
> Which translates to
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.gov.pl/web/gddkia/oznakowanie-drog-krajowych-prezentujemy-wyniki-ankiety


Oh, this is about road signage survey. I was one of the 2,811 people participating in the survey  Though it was in Polish, but I managed to translate words I need.
My thoughts that Lithuanian road signage could be affected by development in Polish road signage, e.g. exit numbers, junction signing, etc., so I was interested in survey too (also in signage in general).

It was long time ago, but I think I even wrote translated text in Polish what I would expect from Polish roads 

--
As for the date, I wonder if this could be some communication error. Maybe they mean "after". I've noticed more experimental signage on sections opened after this date, not before that. Do you have unfinished projects before May 30th, 2017 ?


----------



## Chris80678

A video of S7 Mława - Strzegowo:


----------



## Chris80678

Construction of viaduct on S3 near Kamienna Góra

Photo posted by @michal.r n the Polish forum


----------



## Tonik1

New bridge in Ostrow over the Dunajec river, connecting Tarnow with A4 motorway.

Old bridge was in poor technical condition


----------



## metacatfry

On openstreetmap it looks like they will build another bridge right besides this replacement bridge. You can also se the start of construction with cranes in the video. Is that correct, and if so, why? One bridge for local traffic to Ostrow, and one for transit to the A4 access junction? Seems a bit ostentatious, especially since there hasn't been a connection there for a long time now.


----------



## Tonik1

metacatfry said:


> On openstreetmap it looks like they will build another bridge right besides this replacement bridge. You can also se the start of construction with cranes in the video. Is that correct, and if so, why? One bridge for local traffic to Ostrow, and one for transit to the A4 access junction? Seems a bit ostentatious, especially since there hasn't been a connection there for a long time now.


Yes, both new bridges will be a few hundred metres from each other, one replacing the old bridge-closed for trafic because it was in poor condition, 2nd new bridge and road connecting city with A4


----------



## metacatfry

I mean it's good that they fix this gap, but I'm a bit unhappy with the sequence of events. If the authorities are ok with two bridges there shouldn't have been a period of time where there were no bridges. They could have kept the old bridge going with enough maintenance to keep it open until one of the new bridges had been built, and THEN torn it down, and so avoided any disruption to traffic. 
In general it seems a bit of a problem that they are often casually closing down connections and causing disruption, even if it is in order to upgrade the links. Like, I was shocked when a saw how they dealt with the upgrade of the A1 at Piotrkow, just forcing all traffic through a roundabout while reconstructing the junction.
It doesn't seem like they fully take into account the economic loss caused by transport disruption when making plans. A proper consideration would look at how much total societal loss a closure would cause, and this would be a factor in how much money they would spend to alleviate the disruption. I wager, if they had spent 100 million zl more on the Piotr junction in order to speed up or alleviate traffic, it wouldn't be wasted when looking at how much society lost on wasted time and fuel.

Sorry for the rant.


----------



## Tonik1

Well, you are right, but authoristies were caught by "surprise"

For certain period there was reduced speed and tonnage (problem for nearby large chmical plant) limit for cars, but selfgovernment had problems with financing of the new bridge.


----------



## sponge_bob

metacatfry said:


> I mean it's good that they fix this gap, but I'm a bit unhappy with the sequence of events. If the authorities are ok with two bridges there shouldn't have been a period of time where there were no bridges.


In western europe they would have waited for the bridge to fall down before they replaced it. Building a second bridge would have brought ecomentalists into the planning system with all sorts of complaints about bats/salmon/mussels/snails being disturbed by the building of a new replacement bridge.

So it is easier to deal the planning with after the old bridge collapses into the river instead because it is 'an emergency'. Poles should consider themselves lucky if you ask me


----------



## The Wild Boy

Yeah unlike other countries, Poland actually doesn't have much issues with that. Countries like Germany, Austria, heck even here in the Balkans there are more issues with the "ecologists". 

Poland should play it out safe and needs to ramp up railway investments as it's nearing completion of it's envisioned road network (in the next 10 years).


----------



## metacatfry

This is a golden age for new infrastructure i Poland. when I complain it is just because all sorts of things are going so right, then when there is a issue it sticks out, like a scratch in an otherwise nice paint job.


----------



## PovilD

SRC_100 said:


> There is the most stupid idea to push all traffic to almost the centre of Warsaw. N-S road in Warsaw can`t be any A or S road anymore! If built, it`s gonna be city road for only local (city) traffic with ofcourse few lines each direction. But any transit (voivodship, domestic and international) must be banned to use N-S road. We live in XXI century, not in `70 XX c.


I'm thinking. If people would find N-S road as most direct way from Gdansk to e.g. Krakow?

I hope A50/S50 will help there. No need to go to Warsaw, traffic jams can be horrible here. Downside with Great Warsaw Ringroad is that it make quite big detour in the Northwest from Warsaw, making road quite inconvenient looking from the map.


----------



## Patrako

PovilD said:


> I'm thinking. If people would find N-S road as most direct way from Gdansk to e.g. Krakow?


Once again, it's not transit causing traffic jams in Warsaw. Look at AADT for S8. Less then a quater of the traffic makes it pass Radzymin, and after Wyszków it goes down to 1/8


----------



## The Wild Boy

I would gladly take a road with a bigger detour, than having to go through the capital and sit in traffic jams...


----------



## random_user_name

It all depends on the traffic at the moment. The shorter route cutting through the city will almost always be preferred, unless the traffic gets so big that it doesn't pay off anymore. Look at the situation in Berlin for this relation (roughly Wroclaw - Hamburg), traffic is almost always getting routed through A100 going through the city, instead of the ring road.


----------



## PovilD

The Wild Boy said:


> I would gladly take a road with a bigger detour, than having to go through the capital and sit in traffic jams...


Yeah, there is psychological aspect. Better to make a bigger detour, than just sit in traffic jam. Even if time differences are not that big.

I can now recall that after my stays in Warsaw traffic jams, I was starting to wish I could make bigger detour but avoid sitting in traffic jam.


----------



## Chris80678

A video of Konstantynów Łódzki exit on S14:






S14 from Łódź Lublinek to the Aleksandrów Łódzki exit is due to open in May.

Video posted by @Tomkisiel in the Polish forum


----------



## Chris80678

A small scale opening took place on 9th March

(source: Zarząd Dróg Wojewódzkich - Województwa Śląskiego):

*DW935 (Racibórz Eastern & Northern Bypass)*

It took almost 9 years to build. It features two roundabouts, traffic signalled junctions and one flyover.

An extract from openstreetmap showing the route of the bypass is here:


----------



## Chris80678

Yesterday (16.03.22) a new alignment of DW964 linking DK75 to the A4 motorway interchange at Podłęże opened.

Source:








Małopolska. Obwodnica Podłęża i Niepołomic już otwarta


Kierowcy korzystają już z drogi, która pozwala ominąć podkrakowskie miejscowości Niepołomice i Podłęże. Obwodnica poprawia jednocześnie dostęp do strefy inwestycyjnej.




www.rynekinfrastruktury.pl





This new rerouted DW964 bypasses the village of Podłęże and the town of Niepołomice. The road has been planned since 2020 when the newly built Podłęże exit on the A4 motorway opened. It took longer than expected due to culvert works and the building of a long flyover over the Kraków - Lviv railway line to the west of Podłęże.

The press release states:
"Combining into one communication route: the A4 motorway exit, Podłęże bypass and the extended Niepołomice bypass ending on the national road no. 75, will reduce car traffic in the center of Niepołomice, minimize the entry of heavy vehicles into the city, and the reconstructed intersections will improve safety and they will effectively smooth traffic in the Niepołomicka Investment Zone".

An extract from openstreetmap showing the location of this road is here:


----------



## SRC_100

Chris80678 said:


> A small scale opening today
> (source: Zarząd Dróg Wojewódzkich - Województwa Śląskiego):
> 
> *DW935 (Racibórz Eastern & Northern Bypass)*
> 
> It took almost 9 years to build. It features two roundabouts, traffic signalled junctions and one flyover.
> 
> An extract from openstreetmap showing the route of the bypass is here:


The bypass was opened 9th March, not today. Pure construction took cca. 2 years. 9 years took all stages tilll opening, incl. few stages of paper work, permisions etc.
Below some video made on opening day


----------



## Chris80678

SRC_100 said:


> The bypass was opened 9th March, not today. Pure construction took cca. 2 years. 9 years took all stages tilll opening, incl. few stages of paper work, permisions etc.
> Below some video made on opening day


Wow, there's lot of acoustic screens along the route!


----------



## Chris80678

Signage at Koleczkowo exit on S6. Good to see Berlin instead of Kołbaskowo PL D








































Posted by @chiniol in the Polish forum


----------



## PovilD

I think those PL DE, PL SK, etc. should be very limited and rather an exception than a rule.
I want to see Budzisko removed everywhere, and Kaunas (or Vilnius), doesn't matter, put instead.

Still no exit plates on signs


----------



## Cookiefabric

Rather keep it to Kaunas.. Before my "internal GPS" get confused  
(Vilnius is like 150 km detour if your destination is somewhere in Estonia/Western-Latvia)


----------



## Chris80678

Cookiefabric said:


> Rather keep it to Kaunas.. Before my "internal GPS" get confused
> (Vilnius is like 150 km detour if your destination is somewhere in Estonia/Western-Latvia)


Agreed

My suggestions below:

On A4 (westbound) Jędrzychowice PL D should be replaced with Drzezno / Dresden D on all appropriate signage with a defined distance from the border (say from A4/A18 interchange to the border);

On A4 (eastbound) Korczowa PL UA should be replaced with Lviv UA on all appropriate signage within a defined distance from the border (say from Przemyśl to the border);

On A2 (westbound) Swiecko PL D should be replaced with Berlin D on all appropriate signage within a defined distance from the border (say from Rzepin to the border);

On A2 (eastbound) Terespol PL BY should be replaced with Brześć / Brest BY on all appropriate signage within a defined distance from the border (say from Siedlce to the border);

On A1 (southbound) Gorzycki PL CZ should be replaced with Ostrava CZ - in some places this has happened already but it isn't consistent;

On S3 (southbound) Lubawka PL CZ should be replaced with Praha CZ - a chance exists to do this already with the construction of S3 from Kamienna Góra to the border;

On S8 (southbound) Kudowa-Zdrój PL CZ should be replaced with Ołomuniec/Olomouc CZ on all appropriate signage within a defined distance from the border (say from Kłodzko to the border);

This topic has been done to death. The mentality of signing tiny border villages will take years for Poland to overcome.


----------



## SRC_100

Chris80678 said:


> Agreed
> 
> My suggestions below:
> 
> On A4 (westbound) Jędrzychowice PL D should be replaced with Dresden D on all appropriate signage with a defined distance from the border (say from A4/A18 interchange);
> 
> On A4 (eastbound) Korczowa PL U*A* should be replaced with Lviv U*A* on all appropriate signage within a defined distance from the border (say from Przemyśl to the border);
> 
> On A2 (westbound) Swiecko PL D should be replaced with Berlin D on all appropriate signage within a defined distance from the border (say from Rzepin to the border);


OK, except _UK_, for Ukraine is _*UA *_



> On A2 (eastbound) Terespol PL BY should be replaced with Minsk BY on all appropriate signage within a defined distance from the border (say from Siedlce to the border);


Don`t agree. There suppose to be Brześć/Brest (BY). Minsk is way too far...



> On A1 (southbound) Gorzycki PL CZ should be replaced with Praha (CZ) - in some places this has happened already but it isn't consistent;


Don`t agree. There suppose to be Ostrava and Brno. Praha is way too far...even Venna is much closer



> On S3 (southbound) Lubawka PL CZ should be replaced with Praha (CZ) - a chance exists to do this already with the construction of S3 from Kamienna Góra to the border;


OK, but I would also add Hradec Kralove.



> On S8 (southbound) Kudowa-Zdrój PL CZ should be replaced with Praha (CZ) on all appropriate signage within a defined distance from the border (say from Kłodzko to the border);


Don`t agree. There suppose to be Ołomuniec/Olomouc and Brno. Praha is not on this way or direction


----------



## Chris80678

SRC_100 said:


> OK, except _UK_, for Ukraine is _*UA *_
> 
> 
> Don`t agree. There suppose to be Brześć/Brest (BY). Minsk is way too far...
> 
> 
> Don`t agree. There suppose to be Ostrava and Brno. Praha is way too far...even Venna is much closer
> 
> 
> OK, but I would also add Hradec Kralove.
> 
> 
> Don`t agree. There suppose to be Ołomuniec/Olomouc and Brno. Praha is not on this way or direction


DEL


----------



## Chris80678

A video of Łódź Retkinia exit on S14:






Due to open in May (depending on how concrete shortage and possibility of Ukrainian workers going to fight in Ukraine situations develop)

Posted by @Tomkisiel in the Polish forum


----------



## Chris80678

Photos of Kijewo interchange on the A6 motorway.

The A6 motorway in the centre.

DK10 going across it.

The city of Szczecin is in the distance at the top of the photo.





































Photos posted by @jerzu007 in the Polish forum


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Did they rebuild the bridges?


----------



## Chris80678

ChrisZwolle said:


> Did they rebuild the bridges?


Yes, an additional bridge has been added. The entire interchange is being rebuilt with additional slip roads.
It is due to fully open in July.


----------



## Cookiefabric

Good to see that this section of DK10 is already built toward the Klassy S standard. (Once the connecting pieces are also upgraded, it's just a matter of swapping signs)


----------



## Nowax

*[S3] Legnica - Lubawka (CZ)*

*







*









































































Source: S3 Legnica (A4) - Lubawka zadanie III


----------



## Chris80678

Photos of S19 Niedrzwica - Kraśnik Północ:

Niedrzwica exit (Lublin-bound):










Niedrzwica exit (Rzeszów-bound):


























Due to open in May

Photos posted by @sasiad444 in the Polish forum


----------



## Chris80678

Photos of construction of S7 between Napierki and Mława.

As you can see, a large part of the roadway is prepared for concreting (although there is a big problem with the cement delivery).

Looking north towards Gdańsk :









Looking south towards Warsaw:










The concrete-laying machine:











Photos posted by @los77 in the Polish forum


----------



## Chris80678

A1 Nowe Marzy interchange with DK91 (at top):










Toll plaza at Nowe Marzy interchange:










A1 motorway:










DK91 approaching Nowe Marzy interchange:










Photos posted by @Darole in the Polish forum


----------



## Chris80678

A video of S5 Szubin - Bydgoszcz:






Posted by @RAV69 in the Polish forum


----------



## sponge_bob

Chris80678 said:


> As you can see, a large part of the roadway is prepared for concreting (although there is a big problem with the cement delivery).


Getting cement
Transporting it or
Applying it.

I'd imagine some Ukrainian labour has vanished off Polands roads by now


----------



## Chris80678

sponge_bob said:


> Getting cement
> Transporting it or
> Applying it.
> 
> I'd imagine some Ukrainian labour has vanished off Polands roads by now


I don't know. I'm only quoting from the Polish forum. You'll have to consult the Polish forum for the answer to that question.

Although you are correct a lack of workforce is causing issues in meeting deadlines.


----------



## PovilD

Some more thoughts about Polish exit numbering system.

I think I start to find logic on Polish new exit marking system, but it's a weird system.
It makes it more similar to system used in Germany. Only missing aspect are exit number somewhere just before exit.

To be completely like German system, I think it would be good if 300 m exit marker would also have exit number just like German system.

This also makes importance of węzel name signs to be somewhere closer to junction, for not forgetting junction info while driving. Standard 3000 m distance is just weird. I think 1500-2000 m would be good if we adjust to current Polish system.
If they hate idea of proper using of junction symbols*, they could just ditch those mis-informing interchange symbols. They could use Danish exit number shields. The very same Danish exit number shield design could be used on 300 m exit marker if following German format.

*although I understand their possible argument that without junction symbol it would be less informative ("<6> Miasto X polnoc" what is this?), and it would be harder to understand what driver is approaching.

---
Poland standard does not distinguish motorway interchange from exit numbering. This would be different topic of discussions. You can get away not implementing such system even with my suggestion of using exit numbers without pan-European junction symbols. No interchange sign, no problem. Though Danes use interchange symbol for interchanges (though Swedes don't, they use exit signs even for motorway interchanges, quite similar to Polish system but _opposite_ signs).

---
Btw, I'm not a fan of German exit format. This format is somewhat helpful only for motorway junctions, just for marking sequence of exits, while exit number is not as important for motorway interchange than for regular exit. Regular exits deserved more informative exit numbering here, similar to that of the Netherlands.


----------



## geogregor

sponge_bob said:


> Getting cement
> Transporting it or
> Applying it.
> 
> I'd imagine some Ukrainian labour has vanished off Polands roads by now


All of the above. First, we used to import some cement from the east.

Second, Poland lost workers as many Ukrainians actually went back to fight.

Apparently a lot of HGV drivers left so it creates problems with transport.

And then of course we lost some construction workers.

In other words, a perfect storm.

And that's before we even mention rising prices of all the materials. In some cases if road authority won't agree renegotiation of contracts then contractors might prefer to leave the sites and pay penalties, which will be lower than loses on uneconomic contracts.


----------



## Chris80678

A video from the construction of S5 from Nowe Marzy (A1) - Świecie Południe:






Due to open in August 2022.

Posted by @RAV69 in the Polish forum.

A video from the construction of S5 from Świecie Południe - Bydgoszcz Północ:






Due to open in August 2022.

When these stretches open it will be possible to travel from Gdańsk to Bydgoszcz, Poznań and Wrocław completely by motorway (A1) and expressway (S5).


----------



## Chris80678

Video from construction of S7 Napierki - Mława:






Due to open in June 2022.


----------



## Chris80678

A video of S7 Mława - Strzegowo:


----------



## Chris80678

Some good photos of Nowe Miasto Lubawskie bypass (DK15) on the official project website here:



http://obwodnicanml.pl/2022-marzec-zdjecia-lotnicze/



Video:






Due to open in June 2022.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The Polish motorway & expressway network. 2002 vs 2022. A revolution in road transport!


----------



## Chris80678

Quite an astonishing rate of progress! 
Well done Poland!


----------



## krzysiek997

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Polish motorway & expressway network. 2002 vs 2022. A revolution in road transport!


As of January 2022, there are 4,650 km (2,889 mi)[1] of motorways and expressways in operation (57% of the intended network), while contracts for construction of further 1,117 km (694 mi)[2] of motorways and expressways (14% of the intended network) are ongoing. [src. wiki] 

Basically 1000 km will be added in next 2 - 3 years. 117 a bit later. some parts of s19 require tunel or elevated parts that will take a bit longer. Rzeszów <-> PL - SK border


----------



## RipleyLV

Always found the planning of these routes around Łódź "weird". Łódź/Piotrków Trybunalski literally looks like the center of Poland now.


----------



## Patrako

Because the center of Poland is located like 20 km north of Łódź


----------



## RipleyLV

Patrako said:


> Because the center of Poland is located like 20 km north of Łódź


You even have a monument for that? Coolcoolcool


----------



## Patrako

Zapacz will be constructed in the future (with the rest of S74)


----------



## Strzala

S19 Zdziary - Rudnik nad Sanem is under traffic:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1520002244669812738


----------



## Strzala

Todays opening of S19 makes 9 minutes faster route between Lublin and Rzeszów:


----------



## metacatfry

It isn't just about faster connections. a properly designed fast two lane grade separated road is much safer as well, hazardous overtakings, dangerous crossings, separation of pedestrian and car traffic, it all means society has to pay much less death and destruction as tax.
Which is why it makes sense to build good roads, even if the capacity isn't strictly necessary. There will still be a benefit to society.


----------



## Cookiefabric

@metacatfry Capacity and/or road safety are, indeed, the main reason(-s) to get the approval fixed for such an upgrade.


----------



## Strzala

Video by @jermigo


----------



## Chris80678

Construction of the overpass of S17 Warsaw Eastern Bypass over DK92










Photo posted by @bronco10 in the Polish forum.


----------



## Chris80678

A video of the overpass carrying the current DK19 over the S19 at Wilkołaz:






After the opening of Niedrzwica - Kraśnik, DK19 will become a local gmina road.


----------



## Daniel749

*Via Baltica S61 − section Suwałki - Budzisko (state border) − April 2022*









S61 Suwałki-Budzisko 04-2022.mp4


MP4 File



1drv.ms


----------



## Kemo

Tender for the second carriageway of S19 (Via Carpatia) between Sokołów Małopolski and Jasionka has been started.
So there is a chance that in 2025 the section Lublin - Rzeszów will be a full motorway.

Map:








OpenStreetMap


OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.




www.openstreetmap.org


----------



## The Wild Boy

Great to hear! So this means that most of S19 will have a chance to be done by 2023, finalizing most of the Via Carpatia route as a motorway connection in Poland.

Now i need to ask, why does the Rzeszow Zachod interchange of the S19 end like that? Was the S19 there meant to continue in a different route? I find it stupid and weird that you have to merge on the A4 on a double trumpet interchange from the S19 and then drive on the A4 for a short, untill you have to merge once again back to S19 on a double trumpet interchange. Why wasn't a direct continuous connection done with the S19 on the other side. On the plans, i don't see anything planned for continuation of S19 after Rzeszow Zachod interchange, but on OSM it is shown how the interchange ends, as if it were left space to be continued.

Here's how that looks like from the plans:


----------



## Patrako

No one knows why this juction looks like that. Even GDDKIA has no idea why the bridge over A4 exists.


----------



## Lombat

The Wild Boy said:


> I find it stupid and weird that you have to merge on the A4 on a double trumpet interchange from the S19 and then drive on the A4 for a short, untill you have to merge once again back to S19 on a double trumpet interchange.


Many many years ago, those idiots from our Road Goverment Office (now GDDKiA, diffrent name in those years) went from the assumption, that every interchanche on the tolled "A" road must be a trumpet, except of the A1/A2 and A1/A4 interchanges. Long time ago, The S3 road was planned as the "A" road - and it is routed like this. But, the interchanche A2/S3(A3) is also a a stupid double trumpet. Don't know why, mayby it was that always, maybe they have changed this in refference to the plans of making a closed toll system.

So, if every interchange must be a trumpet, and we have an interchange of the "A" road and the "S" road, lets made a stupid double trumpet!
*Thanks to that, we have to build only one toll station*. THIS IS THE REAL REASON FOR THIS ABSURD.

In this specific case, i once checked the local zoning plans, i found it an i drew it:


----------



## Patrako

Lombat said:


> A1/S3(A3)


A2, not A1


----------



## SRC_100

Pictures of new path of *DK47 *U/C taken with Tatras background


----------



## ChrisZwolle

SRC_100 said:


> with Tatras background


The zoom makes it look like the Himalayas


----------



## SRC_100

Construction of *Olesno bypass* along DK11





Zaprojektowanie i budowa obwodnicy Olesna w ciągu drogi krajowej nr 11 (S11)


----------



## Chris80678

Signage on S14 Łódź Western Bypass (due to open this month):


































Photos posted by @Patrako in the Polish forum.


----------



## SRC_100

Section B - the least advanced of 3 setcions u/c (A, B & C) - of DK7 south of Warsaw (S2).
Please note that previouse contractor was kicked off due to daleys. So new tender was needed, previous contractor: IDS-BUD.
New contractor: *PUT INTERCOR *





To compare I also put movie of section A for which a tender also had to be repeated - previous contractor: consortium of RUBAU Polska & Construcciones Rubau.
New contractor: *POLAQUA *


----------



## Chris80678

A video of the 18 km (11 mile) long Nowe Miasto Lubawskie bypass (DK15):






The multi-million investment project is scheduled to end in June.

Posted by @RAV69 in the Polish forum.


----------



## Chris80678

An aerial view of the overpass carrying S17 over DK92 below










Photo posted by @bronco10 in the Polish forum.


----------



## SRC_100

Chris80678 said:


> A video of the 18 km (11 mile) long Nowe Miasto Lubawskie bypass (DK15):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Posted by @RAV69 in the Polish forum.


IMO beautiful landscape...
*Nowe Miasto Lubawskie*
The satellite photos of google maps show the construction of the bypass --> *https://goo.gl/maps/y1WWrGnhWqTNtsby6*


----------



## Strzala

The Wild Boy said:


> Great to hear! So this means that most of S19 will have a chance to be done by 2023, finalizing most of the Via Carpatia route as a motorway connection in Poland.
> 
> Now i need to ask, why does the Rzeszow Zachod interchange of the S19 end like that? Was the S19 there meant to continue in a different route? I find it stupid and weird that you have to merge on the A4 on a double trumpet interchange from the S19 and then drive on the A4 for a short, untill you have to merge once again back to S19 on a double trumpet interchange. Why wasn't a direct continuous connection done with the S19 on the other side. On the plans, i don't see anything planned for continuation of S19 after Rzeszow Zachod interchange, but on OSM it is shown how the interchange ends, as if it were left space to be continued.
> 
> Here's how that looks like from the plans:
> View attachment 3156498


The same shit can happen on the future 'Zakopianka' S7 route South of Cracow:










People protest against all variants...


----------



## Chris80678

A link to some excellent photos of S14 Łódź Western Bypass:









[S14] Zachodnia Obwodnica Łodzi [drogi dojazdowe =...


I jeszcze parę spraw administracyjnych: Znowu jakieś zmiany? (może to dotyczy zmianę na węźle Emilia) Ze strony Urzędu Wojewódzkiego: "OBWIESZCZENIE WOJEWODY ŁÓDZKIEGO Na podstawie art. 11f ust. 7 ustawy z dnia 10 kwietnia 2003 r. o szczególnych zasadach przygotowania i realizacji inwestycji w...




www.skyscrapercity.com





A link to photos taken by a drone:









[S14] Zachodnia Obwodnica Łodzi [drogi dojazdowe =...


Mam pytanie co do węzła Konstantynów. Czy kiedyś powstanie dojazd od strony wschodniego ronda? Obecnie zjazd z tego węzła wymusza przejazd przez centrum Konstantynowa jeśli by się chciało jechać do zoo. Zakładając że orientarium będzie generowało duży ruch to przydało by się zrobić dojazd...




www.skyscrapercity.com





This section is due to open in June 2022. 

Great work @Patrako and @Tomkisiel !


----------



## Chris80678

S19 Niedrzwica - Kraśnik Północ may open to traffic on 16th May. However, this has not been officially confirmed by GDDKIA.

It is worth noting that even with the opening of this piece Lublin will still not have a full expressway link to Rzeszów. This is because the S19 between Sokołów Małopolski Północ and Jasionka is not a de-facto expressway. In fact in parts it is reduced to one lane in each direction (a tender is ongoing to rectify this).

The deadline for tender offers is 8th June 2022.









Rozbudowa trasy S19 Sokołów Małopolski–Jasionka. Jest przetarg


Generalna Dyrekcja Dróg Krajowych i Autostrad (GDDKiA) ogłosiła przetarg na dobudowę drugiej jezdni odcinka drogi ekspresowej S19 węzeł Sokołów Małopolski Północ–węzeł Jasionka. Oferty można składać do 8 czerwca 2022 r.




inzynieria.com


----------



## Chris80678

A video of Konstantynów Łódzki exit on the (as yet unopened) S14 Łódź Western Bypass:






Posted by @Tomkisiel in the Polish forum.


----------



## Nowax

*[S52] Northern bypass of Krakow*


----------



## Chris80678

The permit for the implementation of S19 (Niedrzwica - Kraśnik Północ) (i.e. to put it into use) has been applied for:

Announcement of the Voivode of Lublin (bip.gov.pl)

Posted by @czaro13 in the Polish forum.

Sign at the Wilkołaz exit:










Photo posted by @fazer in the Polish forum.


----------



## McKowski

^^are these the new signs for S-Roads?


----------



## Chris80678

A video of the Aleksandrów Łódzki exit on (as yet unopened) S14 Łódź Western Bypass:






Video posted by @Tomkisiel in the Polish forum.

When this part of S14 opens this exit will be where traffic has to enter or leave the expressway as the rest of the Łódź Western Bypass won't be completed until next year.


----------



## Patrako

^Also, it won't be connected to Łódź


----------



## Chris80678

Signage on S14 Łódź Western Bypass (seen here at Aleksandrów Łódzki exit) is already being heavily criticised on the Polish forum for its confusing directions even before it has been opened


----------



## Chris80678

Luboń Mały Tunnel on S7:


















Jesienią pojedziemy tunelem w ciągu Zakopianki


Do 30 czerwca powinny się zakończyć prace przy budowie tunelu w ciągu Zakopianki. Potem jeszcze procedury odbiorowe. Inwestor przewiduje, że oddanie tunelowego odcinka S7 do ruchu może nastąpić we wrześniu lub w październiku.




www.rynekinfrastruktury.pl





Work is due to be completed by 30th June.

Completion of the works, however, will not mean that drivers can use the route. Before that, there must be evacuation exercises of emergency services: fire brigade, police and ambulance. These are scheduled for July and August. In addition, approvals of both construction supervision and fire brigades are needed.

Taking all of this into account, possible opening of this tunnel will be in September or October.


----------



## sponge_bob

Is this the last Italian job on the road network in Poland, Astaldi are busy in Romania nowadays but I cannot recall them bidding in Poland in recent years. 


Chris80678 said:


> Work is due to be completed by 30th June.


----------



## SRC_100

It seems that this is very last italian job in Poland so far...


----------



## SRC_100

Comparison of the advancement of the construction of road (DK) no. 61 between May 2021 and May 2022 - section Szczuczyn - Ełk Południe (Ełk South) junction:
Left side May 2021 - right side May 2022




The general contractor is consortium of PORR & UNIBEP

And picture of rest area construction on this section:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1525077365046616075


----------



## Cookiefabric

I don't know what happened there, but after watching the compression it feels a bit like "German Slow". Especialy when you check the northern neighbour (seems way more progress in 1 year, despite that they had a little issue to solve with weak soil)


----------



## Tonik1

A4 will be expanded to 3 lanes from always stuck in traffic Zakopianka to Kapielowa Street


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1524683972743159816


----------



## metacatfry

Till ul. Kapielowa? that road has no connection to the A4. so there will be a section of three lanes that just peters down to two lanes a kilometer away from the next junction? 
What's the point of that.


----------



## Patrako

Kapielowa street is where the third lane starts right now








Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.com


----------



## Patrako

Chris80678 said:


> Why should Poland never do that?
> 
> Why are GDDKIA and MI fed up?
> 
> What does MI stand for?


I was just trying to make a joke that those signs are just a tip of the iceberg when it comes to the absurd things that GDDKIA and MI (Ministry of infrastructure) do.
I fully agree that putting small border towns on these signs is stupid. Except for towns at the border of Ukraine and Belarus (and Kalingrad). where those towns represent a major stopover for driver due to crossing waiting times


----------



## Chris80678

Patrako said:


> I was just trying to make a joke that those signs are just a tip of the iceberg when it comes to the absurd things that GDDKIA and MI (Ministry of infrastructure) do.
> I fully agree that putting small border towns on these signs is stupid. Except for towns at the border of Ukraine and Belarus (and Kalingrad). where those towns represent a major stopover for driver due to crossing waiting times


OK, I missed the humour, apologies. Glad you agree with me about the stupidity of signing small border villages.

On another point, Poland's borders with Belarus, Kaliningrad and Ukraine are the eastern limits of the EU in Poland.


----------



## Lombat

Chris80678 said:


> Why should Poland never do that?


Long time ago, i've seen a theory, that many signs on our roads are intentionally F'ed up in case of war.
The enemy won't know where to go if he sees only Terespol, Budzisko, Ogrodniki, Gorzyczki, etc.
This is the code understandable only for Poles.


----------



## Chris80678

Lombat said:


> Long time ago, i've seen a theory, that many signs on our roads are intentionally F'ed up in case of war.
> The enemy won't know where to go if he sees only Terespol, Budzisko, Ogrodniki, Gorzyczki, etc.
> This is the code understandable only for Poles.


Not a ridiculous theory as it sounds, especially given what's going on in Ukraine right now. As a neighbour of Ukraine, Poland is just as vulnerable (especially when it has given shelter to millions of Ukrainian refugees).

Let's not get into that.

I'll just say that as a Polish national I'm so proud of Poland for what they've done to assist Ukraine in their hour of need.

Now, back to the topic in hand - Polish road infrastructure!


----------



## PovilD

Chris80678 said:


> New signage approaching Zamienie exit on S7 Warsaw - Grójec (not finished yet):
> 
> View attachment 3269251
> 
> 
> View attachment 3269256
> 
> 
> Photos posted by @adamkr in the Polish forum.


Old standard directions, but comfirmation sign is of new standard with junction number?


----------



## PovilD

Chris80678 said:


> Why should Poland never do that?
> 
> Why are GDDKIA and MI fed up?
> 
> What does MI stand for?
> 
> Hardly any other European country puts tiny border villages on its road signs. Although Slovakia is an exception (see below):


Some countries use country name instead of foreign city name, most notable being Portugal.



Chris80678 said:


> Not a ridiculous theory as it sounds, especially given what's going on in Ukraine right now. As a neighbour of Ukraine, Poland is just as vulnerable (especially when it has given shelter to millions of Ukrainian refugees).
> 
> Let's not get into that.
> 
> I'll just say that as a Polish national I'm so proud of Poland for what they've done to assist Ukraine in their hour of need.
> 
> Now, back to the topic in hand - Polish road infrastructure!


In case of war, just hide/dismantle directional signs. No need to make them messy waiting decades for some war. Better option is improving defense that enemy would think at least few times before invading.


----------



## Chris80678

PovilD said:


> Some countries use country name instead of foreign city name, most notable being Portugal.


Yes, in Portugal 🇵🇹 Espanha is used on signs near its border with Spain 🇪🇸


----------



## celevac

Chris80678 said:


> Hardly any other European country puts tiny border villages on its road signs.


Austria does as well in some areas, like "Spielfeld" on A9 instead of signposting "Maribor" or "Zagreb"/"Ljubljana" as bigger cities - they even replaced some Maribor signs around Graz with Spielfeld. I have no idea who is in charge of this bullshit but it makes no sense at all. No foreigner knows about this village. Even some Austrians don't know. 

On A2 towards Italy it often says "Arnoldstein" on the kilometer signs, Udine follows only much later / rarely. It's better around Vienna where they do write Budapest, Praha, Bratislava on all major signs.


----------



## Chris80678

Some good photos by @Pacyfik of Aleksandrów Łódzki exit here:









[S14] Zachodnia Obwodnica Łodzi [drogi dojazdowe =...


Odwodnienie przy zachodnim rondzie. Wlot zachodni ronda zachodniego węzła. Rondo zachodnie. Widok z początku łącznicy płn.-zach. w kierunku północnym ( na Romanów ). Też widok w stronę Romanowa, ale z wysokości wiaduktu węzła. Widok z dojazdu na wschodnie rondo w. na chodnik i ścieżkę...




www.skyscrapercity.com





Thank you @Pacyfik !


----------



## Chris80678

Half of the Rynarzewo exit on the S5 expressway opens this afternoon (31.05.22).









Trasa S5. Węzeł Rynarzewo w komplecie. Raport nr 43


Dziś po południu drogowcy otworzą dla ruchu północną część węzła Rynarzewo. Nadal prowadzone będą jeszcze prace poza jezdniami. Budowa odcinka łączącego węzeł Bydgoszcz Błonie z Szubinem zakończyć się w tym roku.




www.bydgoszcz.pl





Direct quote from article quoted above (translation into English):

"Today (May 31) a new roundabout is planned to be opened at the Rynarzewo junction (from Zamość). Along with the roundabout, slip roads will also gain accessibility to the expressway towards Poznań and the exit from Bydgoszcz to the new roundabout distributing traffic towards, among others, Zamość and Rynarzewo. We would like to remind you that the speed limit of 80 km / h is still in force along the entire section of the expressway under construction".

This fully completes Rynarzewo exit:


----------



## Miguel_PL

Chris80678 said:


> *New signage approaching Zamienie exit on S7 Warsaw - Grójec* (not finished yet):
> 
> View attachment 3269251
> 
> Photos posted by @adamkr in the Polish forum.


This is *not* a new signage example. It's not on the main carriageway:









(by @kroman)


----------



## Chris80678

Miguel_PL said:


> This is *not* a new signage example. It's not on the main carriageway:
> 
> View attachment 3295346
> 
> (by @kroman)


My mistake. Apologies everyone


----------



## Strzala

S19 Rzeszów - Lublin with signage:



Tytuss said:


> No to szerokości
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tylko na jednym znaku się pomyliłem
> View attachment 3297864


----------



## sun20

^
What is the width of the lanes and of the emergency lane/hard shoulder?


----------



## Strzala

sun20 said:


> ^
> What is the width of the lanes and of the emergency lane/hard shoulder?


3,5 and 2,5 metre.


----------



## Kemo

Driving video from A1

The only section which is still in construction is Kamieńsk - Piotrków Trybunalski (7:34 - 9:25). There are still some minor works on other sections between Częstochowa and Tuszyn, and it is not yet signed as a motorway, but nevertheless 2x3 lanes are available most of the time. Speed limit is 100 km/h.


----------



## Chris80678

Pre-opening lighting tests on S14 Łódź Western Bypass at Aleksandrów Łódzki exit:










Photo posted by @Tomkisiel in the Polish forum.

A video of Konstantynów Łódzki exit:





A video of Łódź Retkinia exit:






A video of Łódź Lublinek exit:











All videos posted by @Tomkisiel in the Polish forum.


----------



## The Wild Boy

I've heard that there will be a change of plans for the Mistrzejowice interchange on the Krakow Bypass, which is great news.

So I'd like to propose my friend's solution here:










How realistic does this look like? It eliminates most of the inter - weaving problems, and it's a much interchange instead of the existing planned trumpet interchange. It solves a lot of issues.

Some roads would obviously need to be raised higher, and this may have an impact on the cost but i think that personally this is the best solution.


The results of the analysis of the Mistrzejowice junction made by the Krakow University of Technology can be found here:


Jantar88 said:


> Udostepnione wyniki analizy węzła Mistrzejowice, wykonane przez Politechnikę Krakowską.


That choice isn't bad too, but the one i sent easily avoids every traffic inter - weaving problems and can actually allow drivers to take the interchange at much higher speeds.
Feel free to send this on the Polish forum, or the road authorities and discuss about this.


----------



## Kirt93

@The Wild Boy
First, this idea eliminates some inter-weavings, but it doesn't eliminate the most problematic one, which is the inter-weaving of these two relations on just 300 meters:










Even ignoring this fact, I don't think it's really realistic, because it doesn't factor in the terrain: there is a train line on the embarkment (level "+1") right around the spot where you propose the blue and pink carriageways to cross. So this idea would require it to be a four-level (!) interchange as your pink line would be level +2 and blue above it would be level +3. This is not only exteremly costly, but also would render your other lines impossible with respect to the allowed maximal slopes: if blue is level +3, then the dark-blue from the roundabout (level 0) would need to ascend 3 levels at around 300 meters of length – not plausible.

So I would dare to say that this idea would be *much* more expensive to build than the one proposed by Kraków UoT, and at the same time it doesn't address one of the crucial problems of the original design, while the Kraków UoT design successfully handles all six problems mentioned in Rusonaldo's video.


----------



## metacatfry

Does the change have official backing? What's the likelihood of this Krakow University change being implemented?


----------



## Kemo

Chris80678 said:


> S7 at the village of Pepłowo (south of Napierki) where the expressway currently narrows to a single carriageway until Mława):
> View attachment 3398161


This photo was taken here:








OpenStreetMap


OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.




www.openstreetmap.org


----------



## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> This photo was taken here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OpenStreetMap
> 
> 
> OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.openstreetmap.org


My apologies to all.

The location of the photo wasn't made clear in the Polish forum. I asked where it was taken and got no answer.

I shall stop sharing any posts from Polish forum from now on and cease to be a member of skyscrapercity.com


----------



## Mkbewe

Chris80678 said:


> My apologies to all.
> I shall stop sharing any posts from Polish forum from now on *and cease to be a member of skyscrapercity.co*m


But why?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Corvinus said:


> ... but their speed limits are the best, none of the other countries allow 140 km/h on motorways, though all could go for it.


140 km/h is a 'meh' for me. I'm fine with 130 km/h. 140 km/h option is nice, but I wouldn't single it out as the single greatest thing about a road network. 

I drove German A2 from Bad Oeynhausen to Berlin two weeks ago, on a Sunday. I was surprised how much was limited at 120 or 130. The time of racing through Germany seems to be over.


----------



## Chris80678

A photo of S7 (Pieńki - Płońsk section) from the Polish forum:









KP 58.8:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It looks similar to Texas, with those 'frontage roads'.


----------



## Kemo

Chris80678 said:


> I have asked @bronco10 to show on map where exactly these photos were taken.


In the same place as the previous one


----------



## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> In the same place as the previous one


Thanks for clarifying @Kemo

Meanwhile, on the S8 at Piotrków Trybunalski Zachód exit the slip road from the S8 (westbound) onto A1 (northbound) is awaiting its full opening:









The extract from openstreetmap shows where the slip road (highlighted in yellow) is:











Update:

*"Works on the nearly 16m section of the A1 motorway between the Tuszyn and Piotrków Trybunalski Południe junctions have been completed. Therefore, on Thursday (23/06/2022) in the afternoon the Warsaw-Łódź link at the Piotrków Trybunalski West junction (A1 / S8) will be handed over to traffic. Thus, the junction will obtain full, target functionality."*

The junction is now fully open.


----------



## Kirt93

sponge_bob said:


> Are all the yellow and blue sections to _start_ construction by 2030???


Unfortunately, the published proposal of the "Road Construction Plan until 2030 (2033)" does not indicate the intended construction years of particular sections, so in some cases we need to speculate. But according to various info by GDDKiA it seems the intended dates of completion of A/S roads are roughly as follows (more detailed dates collected on Wikipedia):


*Fully completed by now:*

*A4* (ignoring the section Krzyżowa – Wrocław being substandard)
*A8/S8* except Kłodzko/Boboszów extension
minor highways: A6, S22, S51, S79, S86

*To be fully completed 2022 – 2025:*

*A1, A18, S1, S3, S61*
*S5* except Bolków and Ostróda extensions
*S6* except Szczecin Western Bypass
minor highways: S14 Łódź Western Bypass, S52 Kraków Northern Bypass

*To be fully completed 2028 – 2030:*

*A2, S11, S12, S16, S17, S19, S52, S74*
*A4* Krzyżowa – Wrocław up to modern standard
*S5* Bolków extension
*S6* Szczecin Western Bypass
*S7/DK7* as dual carriageway with no at-grade intersections (but no S standard on section Kraków – Myślenice)

*To be fully completed 2031 – 2033:*

*S5* Ostróda extension
*S8* Kłodzko/Boboszów extension
*S10*
*A/S50 *(that's an extremely optimistic assumption though)

*To be fully completed 2037/2038:*

*S7* Kraków – Myślenice in expressway standard

So it roughly matches your statement about _starting_ constructions by 2030, but of course plans are plans and reality will be reality


----------



## geogregor

Corvinus said:


> ... but their speed limits are the best, none of the other countries allow 140 km/h on motorways, though all could go for it.


And there is another 10 km/h where you are extremely unlikely to be fined, so in the reality you can easily drive 150km/h, stress free.

I regularly push over that when on my way home from the airport. I know where I have to slow down (A1 in Silesia is in bad shape in places) and where it is possible to drive 160km/h or more.


----------



## sponge_bob

Speaking of which. 


Kirt93 said:


> So it roughly matches your statement about _starting_ constructions by 2030, but of course plans are plans and r_eality will be reality _


Some countries have introduced 'escalator clauses' to compensate for contractors having to spend a lot more money on concrete and diesel than they planned when they bid in the first place. EG a contractor starting a 2 year build campaign on the S19 today would have bid for the contract in 2020 and spent the last year designing the solution. In the meantime the 2020 prices they bid at are very far removed from reality.

In a country like Poland where 300km roll on and off the programme every year, and assuming a static budget, this means that more money would be spent on compensation measures from 2023> and that would then reduce the kms of new starts as money is diverted into escalation clauses on old contracts. I would say the same budget that got you 300km a year would get you nearer 200km today.

The alternative is that contractors walk away, especially by the end of the design phase, because they are guaranteed to lose money at 2020 bid prices. Perhaps fatally.

So my question is, how is GDKKIA handling the matter of escalation on _existing_ contracts right now?????


----------



## Kemo

Today, A1 on sections Tuszyn - Piotrków Trybunalski and Radomsko - Częstochowa gained full motorway status with the default speed limit of 140 km/h.


----------



## Chris80678

Kemo said:


> Today, A1 on sections Tuszyn - Piotrków Trybunalski and Radomsko - Częstochowa gained full motorway status with the default speed limit of 140 km/h.


Excellent!

By the end of 2022, A1 will be fully complete with the finishing of upgrade works from just south of Piotrków Trb Południe exit to just south of Kamieńsk exit (highlighted section in extract from openstreetmap below):










*S14 Łódź Western Bypass (Łódź Lublinek - Aleksandrów Łódzki exit only) opens tomorrow (25th June 2022)*









Otwarcie S14 w Łodzi. Zachodnia obwodnica Łodzi została otwarta w sobotę, 25 czerwca. Trasa jest już dostępna dla kierowców







dzienniklodzki.pl





*After the first part of the S14 is put into operation there will be a 16 km gap in the S14 (in between Aleksandrów Łódzki and the A2).

*This section is being built by the Chinese company Stecol.

*It is to be ready in April 2023. The works are progressing smoothly so the 
deadline should be met.

*Then by mid 2023, in the west, the S14 will connect the S8 to the south and A2 to the north. To the east of Łódź, the S8 and A2 are already connected by the A1 motorway. This will fully complete the Łódź ring road.


----------



## MichiH

Kirt93 said:


> But according to various info by GDDKiA it seems the intended dates of completion of A/S roads are roughly as follows (more detailed dates collected on Wikipedia):


Just for comparsion, the prediction from July 2019. Most "completions" are delayed by many years, most extreme S8 is moved from 2025 to 2031-33 now.



Kirt93 said:


> A very interesting spreadsheet was published a few days ago, among other info specifying projected realisation dates to all motorway and expressway sections:
> 
> The document is super optimistic and there's just no way the reality goes as swiftly as this, but it nonetheless is very interesting to read to see what the govt's priorities are.
> 
> Here is my summary of when which routes would be fully completed according to this data. Note that in some cases it might mean some route needs to be still constructed on all of its length from scratch, while in other cases it might be just one or two remaining stretches which still need to be finished in order to complete the whole route. New info starts after italics.
> 
> 
> _Routes which are already completed:_
> 
> 
> _
> A1: section Gdańsk - Toruń - Łódź
> A1: section Katowice agglomeration - PL/CZ border
> A2: section PL/DE - Poznań - Łódź - Warsaw
> A4: whole (PL/DE - PL/UA)
> S3: section Szczecin(A6) - A2
> S8/A8: section Wrocław - Łódź(A1)
> S8: section Warsaw - Białystok
> minor: S22, S51, S79, S86
> _
> 
> _Routes to be completed by the end of 2019:_
> 
> 
> _
> S5: section Wrocław - Poznań (optimistically; 'driveable' state)
> S6: section Szczecin - Koszalin
> S8: section A1 - Warsaw
> _
> 
> _Routes to be completed in 2020 - 2022:_
> 
> 
> _
> A1: whole
> S3: section A2 - A4
> S5: section Poznań - Bydgoszcz - A1
> S7: section Gdańsk - Warsaw except the parts which are currently 2x2 non-expressway highway
> S7 "Zakopianka" except the parts which are currently 2x2 non-expressway highway
> S17: section Warsaw - Lublin
> S19 (Via Carpathia): section Lublin - Rzeszów
> S61 (Via Baltica): whole
> minor: A6, S2
> _
> 
> 
> 
> Routes which according to the data are hoped to be completed in *2023*:
> 
> A18: whole
> S1: whole (Pyrzowice - PL/SK border)
> S3: section A4 - PL/CZ border
> S6: section Koszalin - Słupsk
> S7: section Warsaw - Kraków
> S14 Łódź bypass
> S52 Kraków bypass
> DK47 "Zakopianka" Rdzawka - Nowy Targ: southern basically-speaking-expressway extension of S7
> In *2024*:
> 
> A2: section Warsaw - PL/BY (in total: whole A2 completed)
> S3: section Świnoujście - Szczecin (in total: whole)
> S6: Tricity 2nd bypass
> S7: section Gdańsk - Warsaw
> In *2025*:
> 
> S8: extension Kłodzko - Wrocław
> S10: section Bydgoszcz - Toruń
> S12: section Lublin - PL/UA
> S16: section Olsztyn - Ełk
> S17: whole (Warsaw - PL/UA)
> S19 (Via Carpathia*): whole (PL/BY - PL/SK)
> (*) For the whole Polish section of Via Carpathia to be complete, a stretch of S16 Ełk - Białystok is also needed, which is only >2028 in this data. However, by 2025 the new high-quality route of DK8 Białystok - Suwałki will probably be finished, so the whole S19 being done would in fact mean that Via Carpathia is basically speaking complete even though one section not in expressway standard.
> 
> In *2026*:
> 
> S11: whole
> S12: section A1 - Lublin (in total: whole)
> S52: whole
> In *2027*:
> 
> S6: section Słupsk - Gdańsk [the part from Bożepole Wielkie to Gdańsk in 2021, from Słupsk to Bożepole in 2027]
> S10: section Szczecin - Bydgoszcz
> [edit: S16: section Ełk - Białystok (in total: whole) acc. to link]
> In *2028*:
> 
> S10: section Toruń - S8 near Warsaw (in total: whole)
> S74: whole
> Routes with planned year of completion not clear from this data:
> 
> reconstruction of substandard A4 Krzyżowa - Legnica - Wrocław (possibly with fragments constructed on a new route)
> S6 Szczecin western bypass (public-private partnership)
> Routes left for *after 2028*:
> 
> S5: section A1 - Ostróda(S7)
> S7 "Zakopianka" on the part with existing 2x2 road (Kraków - Myślenice)
> "A50/S50" (2nd ring around Warsaw) [edit: planned for 2029]


----------



## SRC_100

On the section of the national road no. 18 being under construction, near the Iłowa junction, a test section of the concrete pavement has been laid. We check that the pavement parameters are in line with our requirements.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540264703716466688
Tunnel along new path of DK3 (national road no. 3)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1538825497081159683

Viaduct WS40 durint sunset on the same road as above:


----------



## dominobb

MichiH said:


> Just for comparsion, the prediction from July 2019. Most "completions" are delayed by many years, most extreme S8 is moved from 2025 to 2031-33 now.


You write about different extensions of S8.
In 2031-33 extension Kłodzko - Boboszów should be completed. A few years ago, this extension wasn't planned at all. S8 was to end in Kłodzko, and now it was extended to Boboszów. Hence the date.


----------



## Chris80678

Some good photos of signage on S7 Warsaw - Grójec (specifically at Lesznowola, Warsaw Airport and Zgorzała exits):









[S7] Warszawa - Grójec


Też o tym myślałem, ale z drugiej strony dojedziemy w końcu do DW721. Tylko, że dojazd od węzła Lesznowola do DW721 miał być zdaje się jakoś inaczej zorganizowany - chyba zachodnią drogą lokalną. Jest już wykonane połączenie zachodniego kikutu DW721_bis z drogą lokalną. Czy mógłby mnie ktoś...




www.skyscrapercity.com





(Post #9,452 onwards)


----------



## Chris80678

Szczecin Kijewo exit on A6 is fully open:



https://www.gov.pl/web/gddkia-szczecin/wezel-szczecin-kijewo-w-pelni-otwarty


----------



## Luki_SL

12,2km of expressway S14 (Łódź Lublinek - Aleksandrów Łódzki ) opens today. It`s part of Łódź western bypass.












https://www.gov.pl/web/gddkia-lodz/domykamy-ring-wokol-aglomeracji-lodzkiej?fbclid=IwAR13Y3fpxW95KZPEFfyhf_7ZeJ0xi6dIpwvf3cF_XzaxrUcG9lV9HeDhcnk


----------



## Chris80678

So, here is video of Łódź Western Bypass:






Posted by @Tomkisiel in the Polish forum.

Only exit names are captioned and not signs.

Enjoy!


----------



## PovilD

Chris80678 said:


> So, here is video of Łódź Western Bypass:
> 
> Only exit names are captioned and not signs.


Looks like new section with 2000s-style small expressway signage but with green expressway 300/200/100 m markers.

This is one of the first sections like that? It's usually either 2000s style signage with no additional exit markers, or new "experimental" signage with markers and exit numbers.


----------



## Chris80678

Photos of S14 (Aleksandrów Łódzki - A2) can be found here:



http://s14-odcinek2.pl/zdjecia-z-powietrza/



Work looks to be progressing well and completion in April 2023 looks realistic.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The southernmost segment of S19 to the Slovak border has received € 327 million funding from the CEF programme.









Transport infrastructure: EU invests EUR 5.4 billion to support key projects across the continent


Transport infrastructure: EU invests EUR 5.4 billion to support key projects across the continent




cinea.ec.europa.eu





Out of 135 funded projects in the EU, this was the only road construction project that received funding.


----------



## Chris80678

Exit signage at Łódz Retkinia on S14:









Exit signage at Konstantynów Łódzki on S14:









Exit signage at Aleksandrów Łódzki on S14:


----------



## Kirt93

Progress at Olszyna border crossing (DK/A18) in 3 months. Main contractor: PORR.

21.03.2022:









21.06.2022:









https://www.przebudowa-a18odc1.pl/zdjecia-lotnicze.html


----------



## Chris80678

Kirt93 said:


> Progress by PORR at Olszyna border crossing (DK/A18) in 3 months
> 
> 
> https://www.przebudowa-a18odc1.pl/zdjecia-lotnicze.html


Impressive!









W sierpniu przejezdna Puławska-bis. Czy drogowcy puszczą ruch?


Do końca sierpnia ma być przejezdny pierwszy odcinek trasy ekspresowej S7 na wylocie z Warszawy. Chodzi o kawałek od Okęcia do Lesznowoli, w tym węzeł




www.haloursynow.pl





To summarise:

The first section of the S7 expressway at the exit from Okęcie (Warsaw) to the village of Lesznowola is to be accessible by the end of August 2022. This 6 km section includes Zamienie exit (from where it will be possible to return to Ursynów in Warsaw). It will be of most importance to local traffic.

The weather is favorable for road workers from the Polaqua company, who are building the S7 expressway from Okęcie to Lesznowola.

The contractor has until October 2022 to complete all the works on this section_._

The situation is worse with the next section of the route under construction (Lesznowola - Tarczyn Północ). Road builders are still announcing that it will be passable for October 2022.


----------



## Wrocl'awianin

ChrisZwolle said:


> 140 km/h is a 'meh' for me. I'm fine with 130 km/h. 140 km/h option is nice, but I wouldn't single it out as the single greatest thing about a road network.
> 
> I drove German A2 from Bad Oeynhausen to Berlin two weeks ago, on a Sunday. I was surprised how much was limited at 120 or 130. The time of racing through Germany seems to be over.


In case of Poland, well I drove almost through entire country recently, despite the changes in Highway Code towards more radical fines etc. going like 140 km/h with cruise control I was the mr sluggish of our few motorways. Plenty of gargantuan SUV's going like 220 km/h and no single Police patrol. Going like this you can reach Wrocław from Warsaw in 1.5h. The road signage is terrible that's true. In my humble opinion in Central America they have way more logical road signage. At least they correctly show the number of lanes.


----------



## Eulanthe

Kirt93 said:


> So it roughly matches your statement about _starting_ constructions by 2030, but of course plans are plans and reality will be reality


The thing that I struggle to understand in PL is why we aren't focusing on


Wrocl'awianin said:


> going like 140 km/h with cruise control I was the mr sluggish of our few motorways. Plenty of gargantuan SUV's going like 220 km/h and no single Police patrol.


I had one of them nearly crash into me on the A4 recently. Traffic was moving at around 100-110km/h from Legnica towards Wrocław, and knowing how often crashes occur there, I was driving without cruise control and keeping distance from the car in front. There was absolutely no way to go faster, and I was sat on the left lane just overtaking a neverending line of trucks.

Anyway, our hero, after spending the best part of 10km flashing his lights and having a meltdown because I wouldn't get closer to the car in front (I was around 2-3 seconds behind), decided to jump into a tiny gap between trucks and then in front of me. He nearly hit me, and then he sat on the bumper of the car in front for a good 10-15km after that. 

The lack of policing on Polish motorways is really tragic.


----------



## random_user_name

I guess as always, there needs to be a widely publicized crash on a motorway for the police to take action on dangerous driving on motorways. For now, the only thing we can do is not give way to these idiots trying to get through traffic at all cost, maybe it will teach them something if they see their tactics not working.


----------



## RipleyLV

Eulanthe said:


> The lack of policing on Polish motorways is really tragic.


Maybe you know reasons why it is so?

We have the same problem on our roads as well - lack of physical police control. Everyone drives how he/she wants, especially this spike rose during the pandemic. For example, if you are doing 50 km/h in a populated area (50 km/h is allowed) then you are automatically counted as an agressor for slowing others down. I guess since now with almost everyone using Waze, the police is usually is marked on the map, people are on chill breaking the law. But once there is a police car cruising, then everyone suddenly remembers to look into speedometer.


----------



## Kemo

S5 between Grudziądz and Bydgoszcz is being gradually opened to normal traffic.
Last night the section between Nowe Marzy (A1) and Sartowice was opened in 2x2 configuration.

Majority of the remaining section is also available in 1x2 or 2x1 configuration, there are only a few at-grade intersections left. By the end of July all should be 2x2.

A video from one of our fellow forumers


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Album cover for Pink Floyd - The Wall:


S1 Sosnowiec - Tychy 07 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## Chris80678

Video of S7 Napierki - Mława (taken in June 2022):






This section is supposed to open fully this month (July 2022).

Looks like its just road markings left to complete.


----------



## RipleyLV

ChrisZwolle said:


> Album cover for Pink Floyd - The Wall:
> 
> 
> S1 Sosnowiec - Tychy 07 by European Roads, on Flickr


Oh wow, just now I noticed the S1 to Cieszyn has been renumbered to S52.


----------



## PovilD

RipleyLV said:


> Oh wow, just now I noticed the S1 to Cieszyn has been renumbered to S52.


Sign size for Dziečkowice junction seem to look smaller than average sign of that type. I like seeing adaptive approach in relatively unadaptive signage system.


----------



## Chris80678

Wałbrzych bypass opens soon:









Coraz bliżej obwodnicy Wałbrzycha


Na całej długości traktu jest już asfalt. Zaawansowanie projektu wynosi już średnio ponad 90 proc. Oznacza to, że jest coraz bliżej otwarcia obwodnicy miasta.




www.rynekinfrastruktury.pl





*The Wałbrzych bypass is being built along the national road No. 35.

*It is 6 km long with a dual carriageway cross-section. Drivers will have two lanes available in each direction.

*The construction of the Wałbrzych bypass is significantly delayed. Works started in 2019. The deadline for completion of works was postponed several times.

*There will be two junctions along the bypass. There are also, among others, 3 viaducts along the bypass, a footbridge and an underground subway for pedestrians.

*The bypass is important not only for the inhabitants of Wałbrzych, but also for the neighbouring health resort of Szczawna-Zdrój.


----------



## Kemo

Tenders for the remaining sections for S19 _Via Carpatia_ south of Rzeszów (including some tunnels) have been started today.

We'll see if there is enough money in the budget...


----------



## sponge_bob

Kemo said:


> We'll see if there is enough money in the budget...


The problem will be finding money for projects tendered in 2019-2020 if you ask me. 

Is the GDDKIA slowing issuing new tenders now or issuing them as they planned in January.???


----------



## SRC_100

sponge_bob said:


> The problem will be finding money for projects tendered in 2019-2020 if you ask me.



If any project had tendered, it means financing has been provided, so...


----------



## sponge_bob

Yes. But how far down the original 2022 list have they gone??


----------



## Kemo

SRC_100 said:


> If any project had tendered, it means financing has been provided, so...


The contractors may decide to quit the contracts because they have become unprofitable due to high inflation.
And this is not funny.

We have a recent example:
A contract for modernisation of DK91 in Częstochowa was signed in 2018 for *178 838 720.87 PLN*
Recently, the contractor left the contract. In the new tender, the lowest bid is *359 032 080.58 PLN*

So despite some works have been done (including the design phase - the original contract was design & build) the cost has gone up twice!


----------



## sponge_bob

I expect a lot of this in Poland and Romania with their large programmes. 

Romania has said they will index input costs up to 40% on receipt of a claim. The pain points are steel rebar +100% since 2019, cement, steel beams and of course diesel prices. 





Kemo said:


> The contractors may decide to quit the contracts because they have become unprofitable due to high inflation.
> And this is not funny.
> 
> So despite some works have been done (including the design phase - the original contract was design & build) the cost has gone up twice!


AGAINST that Gdkkia can reduce the number of new tenders to find space in their budget for escalation clauses for existing contracts.


----------



## Patrako

sponge_bob said:


> The problem will be finding money for projects tendered in 2019-2020 if you ask me.
> 
> Is the GDDKIA slowing issuing new tenders now or issuing them as they planned in January.???


Those plans were a total BS, since the new financing problem isn't approved yet. It is undergoing normal legislative process


Kemo said:


> The contractors may decide to quit the contracts because they have become unprofitable due to high inflation.
> And this is not funny.
> 
> We have a recent example:
> A contract for modernisation of DK91 in Częstochowa was signed in 2018 for *178 838 720.87 PLN*
> Recently, the contractor left the contract. In the new tender, the lowest bid is *359 032 080.58 PLN*
> 
> So despite some works have been done (including the design phase - the original contract was design & build) the cost has gone up twice!


I have said it many times, i am going to repeat my self.
From the financial point it would make a whole lot more sense to announce many tenders for just designs and ZRID. This would allow us to advance in preparation for the new road, but it would also take the expensive, and right now, very speculative part which would be paying for the construction of the whole road


----------



## sponge_bob

What about contracts signed in 2018-2020 where the contractor could go bankrupt if they don't get more money????


----------



## Patrako

Here's a whole artictule on that topic (in Polish)


https://www.gov.pl/web/gddkia/dodatkowe-27-mld-zl-na-drogi-krajowe-ustabilizuje-rynek


----------



## Eulanthe

RipleyLV said:


> Maybe you know reasons why it is so?
> 
> We have the same problem on our roads as well - lack of physical police control. Everyone drives how he/she wants, especially this spike rose during the pandemic. For example, if you are doing 50 km/h in a populated area (50 km/h is allowed) then you are automatically counted as an agressor for slowing others down. I guess since now with almost everyone using Waze, the police is usually is marked on the map, people are on chill breaking the law. But once there is a police car cruising, then everyone suddenly remembers to look into speedometer.


Politics, nothing more. The car is king in PL, and it is still a status symbol, unlike in much of Western Europe. Any government starting to seriously control speed would anger a lot of vocal male drivers, who are a very critical part of the electorate. 

Most of the problems would be solved overnight by not focusing on speed, but on bad driving. For instance, all they have to do is set up cameras on bridges to monitor the distance between cars.


----------



## Chris80678

A video of part 2 of S14 Łódź Western Bypass (Aleksandrów Łódzki - A2) (under construction):






Video made in June 2022.

Posted by @RAV69 in the Polish forum.


----------



## random_user_name

Eulanthe said:


> The car is king in PL, and it is still a status symbol, unlike in much of Western Europe


I disagree, if you look at car ownership rates and cost of owning a car in Poland vs. more developed countries, it's hard to conclude that car is a status symbol anymore. It used to be maybe 20-30 years ago. But you're right that "car is king in PL", in the sense that virtually everybody has a car and depends on it to get to places even in big cities, so any proposals regarding for example reducing road capacity for cars are met with strong opposition by vast majority of people.



Eulanthe said:


> Any government starting to seriously control speed would anger a lot of vocal male drivers, who are a very critical part of the electorate.


But they just did that with raising fines drastically for the first time since the 90's. Of course, you also need actual police and cameras to catch speeding drivers, and here it didn't change much.


----------



## Chris80678

A video of Zakręt interchange on the eastern outskirts of Warsaw (S17 / DK92):






S17 is on the overpass above. DK92 is on the roundabout beneath it. The roundabout features an underpass to allow traffic to avoid the roundabout altogether.

This video was made 3 weeks ago (June 2022).

Zakręt interchange (and the extension of S17 to Lubelska interchange) is due to fully open in December 2022.

Photos from the Polish forum below:

Zakręt interchange:

























































Construction of S17 between Zakręt and Lubelska interchanges:



















For now S17 will end here in a field on the outskirts of Wesoła (an eastern suburb of Warsaw):










Completion of S17 Warsaw Eastern Ring Road is years away.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Zakręt means turn or curve? I found this out, because the S1/S52 curve in Bielsko-Biała is called 'Zakręt Idiotów', it's even displayed on Open Street Map. 

I made my first video of the massive 9 country road trip I undertook last month:


----------



## Chris80678

ChrisZwolle said:


> Zakręt means turn or curve? I found this out, because the S1/S52 curve in Bielsko-Biała is called 'Zakręt Idiotów', it's even displayed on Open Street Map.
> 
> I made my first video of the massive 9 country road trip I undertook last month:


Correct, zakręt translates into English as curve.


----------



## geogregor

Chris80678 said:


> Correct, zakręt translates into English as turn.


Or rather "curve".


----------



## nv2

ChrisZwolle said:


> Zakręt means turn or curve?


Both, in polish it isn't differentiated.


----------



## Wrocl'awianin

Imho, there is a differentiation.
Turn should be translated as skręt from skręcać - making a turn.
Curve should be treated as zakręt from zakrzywienie = curved shape.


----------



## sponge_bob

Whats "Idiotów" then????


----------



## Patrako

,, Of idiots''
It is a reference to numerous dangerous situation that happen there all the time


----------



## Chris80678

A video of S61 Szczuczyn - Ełk Południe






Due to open in a matter of weeks!

Work on S61 Ełk Południe - Wysokie continues:






This section won't be finished until mid 2023 at the earliest.


----------



## The Wild Boy

Could the entire S61 be finished by 2024 or at most early 2025? When is Lithuania set to complete it's bit to the Polish border 2026?


----------



## Cookiefabric

Summer 2025 is a good "location in time". The Lomza-North bypass is now a InterCor job -- which does a have a good track record, also with previous Italian Blue's. However, I do expect a little delay (up to 3 months) for the whole project.

About LT: If do remember correctly, LT has some issues to sort out with their A5 motorway project (but the building tender for the first section is about to go live).

@Kemo Which Polish forum member does the job of the overview in a table? Daniel?


----------



## Kemo

Which table?

This one - Hetman


----------



## Chris80678

S61 Suwalki - Szypliszki (under construction):


----------



## Chris80678

S7 Pepłowo (Napierki) - Nowa Wieś (Mława) (second carriageway) is all ready for tomorrow's opening:


----------



## Kemo

First vehicles on the new section of S7


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1547527856435220480


----------



## Patrako

del


----------



## sponge_bob

Why is it pale green on the map instead of proper green???



http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/


----------



## Lombat

sponge_bob said:


> Why is it pale green on the map instead of proper green???
> 
> 
> 
> http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/


When full speed will be legal. Now it is 80km/h.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A 2 kilometer segment through the Dłużniewo interchange will also open to traffic tomorrow.


----------



## PovilD

Lombat said:


> When full speed will be legal. Now it is 80km/h.


I don't understand this low speed limit system for newly reconstructed sections. I remember them on S8, now on A1.
Nobody are sticking to them, and it doesn't make sense to stick to them.

We also have 70 km/h limits near now-finished section near Kaunas, Lithuania which should be 130 km/h or at least 90-110 km/h (limit may be in place till end of July). Most works are carried out at slip roads, not road itself.


----------



## RipleyLV

PovilD said:


> I don't understand this low speed limit system for newly reconstructed sections.


For asphalted sections: after paving a fresh top layer of asphalt, there is always a shiny thin layer of bitumen on the very top, which is very slippery. That's why the speed limit is always reduced even after the works on the road itself are complete. Time and drivers patience in needed in order to wear it out with vehicles tires. Once measurement results are valid to standard, signs are removed.

But in this part of Europe nobody cares about own/others safety and driving according to the limit. That's why our accident statistics are always on top. If one idiot is doing 110 km/h on a 70 zone, then the rest of the sheep will follow.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Not the farthest distance to Bratislava: 319 kilometers


S1 Bielsko-Biała - Żywiec 08 by European Roads, on Flickr

320 kilometers on D1 in Prague


----------



## ChrisZwolle

https://www.gov.pl/web/gddkia-poznan/brak-ofert-na-dzierzawe-mop-ow-zamyslowo-oraz-wilkowice



No offers on a tender for the lease of a service area on two S5 locations: Wilkowice and Zamysłowo. 

I happened to stop on both rest areas last month.


S5 MOP Wronczyn 02 by European Roads, on Flickr 


S5 MOP Wronczyn 08 by European Roads, on Flickr


S5 MOP Wronczyn 10 by European Roads, on Flickr




S5 MOP Gołanice 06 by European Roads, on Flickr


S5 MOP Gołanice 07 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## PovilD

RipleyLV said:


> For asphalted sections: after paving a fresh top layer of asphalt, there is always a shiny thin layer of bitumen on the very top, which is very slippery. That's why the speed limit is always reduced even after the works on the road itself are complete. Time and drivers patience in needed in order to wear it out with vehicles tires. Once measurement results are valid to standard, signs are removed.
> 
> But in this part of Europe nobody cares about own/others safety and driving according to the limit. That's why our accident statistics are always on top. If one idiot is doing 110 km/h on a 70 zone, then the rest of the sheep will follow.


I guess there are different stages of this bitumen becoming settled. Speed limit may go up with time. Starting with 80 km/h, and going up to default speed.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Everybody is going to Hel.


----------



## Patrako

Have you ever heard about this BUS?


----------



## SRC_100

ChrisZwolle said:


> Everybody is going to Hel.


It`s real highway to _*Hel*l _for now...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

3 ~ 

3 x?


DK5 Bolków - Lubawka 10 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## SRC_100

🔼 🔼
3 following turns









Sign *T-4*: number of turns









Sign *A-3*: Dangerous turns - first right


----------



## PovilD

I only saw in Czech Republic and maybe Slovakia using 2x, 3x and similar signs. I wonder why these are not very popular?
Even Poland limited it only for curves, and "~" symbol is used instead (which is not bad thing in my opinion).
Btw, it was one of the first signs seen in Poland when I visited the country for the first time in 2008  It was DK8 near Lithuanian border. I have never seen anything like that before, and I thought is kind of cool sign.


----------



## Azir78

May Me someone explain why in Poland only Slavic languages use instead of normal v abnormal w???
W is tipical for German languages not for Slavic language!!!
I really don't understand reason of this.


----------



## PovilD

Azir78 said:


> May Me someone explain why in Poland only Slavic languages use instead of normal v abnormal w???
> W is tipical for German languages not for Slavic language!!!
> I really don't understand reason of this.


I think is from times when v and u were not distinguished and Poles decided to distinguish it from v.
Later v turned u, and v was not used in Polish anymore.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## McKowski

Once the "bypass" of the A4 south of Wrocław will be some, what will be the number of it?


----------



## dominobb

A4.


----------



## Nowax

*[S7] Moczydlo - Miechow section*
































































Source: https://s7moczydlo-miechow.pl/multimedia-szczegoly/2022-07-04-394-2


----------



## Nowax

*[S1] Przybedza - Milowka section*














































Source: Budowa drogi ekspresowej S1 (dawniej S69)


----------



## McKowski

dominobb said:


> A4.


And the "old" section will be renamed to what?


----------



## dominobb

The road will lose the status of a motorway - probably it will be relegated to voivodeship road.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It seems very unlikely to me that the current A4 would be downgraded either physically or administratively. Even if through traffic would be rerouted onto a new alignment, this part of the route would remain a very important access for metropolitan Wrocław. Maybe it would become a droga ekpresowa, but I find it hard to believe it would become a provincial road.


----------



## Patrako

dominobb said:


> The road will lose the status of a motorway - probably it will be relegated to voivodeship road.


It will be a national road with grade seperation


Kirt93 said:


> Na trwającym właśnie spotkaniu informacyjnym w Kątach Wrocławskich pojawił się temat starego śladu w przypadku realizacji wariantów 2.*.
> 
> Projektant potwierdził, że na starym śladzie wszystkie węzły pozostaną w obecnej lokalizacji i w obecnej formie, i zostaną zachowane wszystkie istniejące przejazdy nad/pod starym przebiegiem.
> 
> Przedstawicielka GDDKiA powiedziała, że stary ślad będzie drogą krajową (przypuszczam że chodzi tu o formalne znaczenie, tzn. że to stwierdzenie nie wyklucza możliwości oznaczenia jako S).


----------



## sponge_bob

A lot of the current A4 Wroclaw bypass alignment has no hard shoulder and is about the standard of some recently built Dxx stretches which also have no hard shoulder. It would be a cack S road.

New alignment shown in Green on the map Geogregor posted a few days back and clearly the final alignment is not decided yet. 



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYqpGU6X0AI_4bJ?format=jpg&name=4096x4096


----------



## SRC_100

🔼 🔼
More or less almost till Kąty Wrocławskie junction (from Wrocław) there is hard shoulder on both carriageways.

IMO new and old alignment of A4 near Wrocław should have been signed as motorway and both expanded to 2x3.


----------



## sponge_bob

I have a feeling that the plan is to have a tolled PPP funded alignment on the new A4 and to leave the old alignment as is with a 100kph limit. It is very congested nowadays and that will continue to be the case. Viamichelin right now.


----------



## Cookiefabric

^^ Weird to see it already named as DK5 

I'm aware that this is related to the zoom level and the amount of info being displayed


----------



## SRC_100

sponge_bob said:


> I have a feeling that the plan is to have a tolled PPP funded alignment on the new A4 and to leave the old alignment as is with a 100kph limit. It is very congested nowadays and that will continue to be the case. Viamichelin right now.
> 
> View attachment 3585102


New A4 ain`t gonna be built in PPP formula.


----------



## Chris80678

Dłużniewo exit on S7:










Ciechanów exit on S7 Płońsk bypass is to be renamed Płońsk Północ.


----------



## McKowski

Sorry for continuing the topic, but what number would the "old" part of A4 get? No matter if it will become a S, DK or even DW. Will they integrate it into DK 94, or will it go back to DK4 or somehting entirely different?


----------



## Kemo

How can we know?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

DK47 Rabka - Nowy Targ. This'll be one of the nicest rides in Poland. If they at least don't put enormous noise barriers on the entire route...


----------



## Chris80678

Signage on roundabout at the future interchange of DK92 / S17 :



















The S17 Warsaw Eastern Bypass is not shown on the sign as it won't be built for years yet. Besides that part of S17 currently ends in a dead end and doesn't lead anywhere.

The DK92 underpass and roundabout can be seen in the photo below:










Looking east down the DK92 underpass:










A good birdseye view of the entire interchange:










This interchange is due to open at the end of the year.


----------



## geogregor




----------



## Kielbus

https://www.gov.pl/attachment/746dd1ca-7076-4a78-8b8f-8796ce83db03


----------



## Signar

A2 Gręzów -Siedlce Zachód




















https://a2minsk-siedlce.pl/galeria/zdjecia-z-ziemi-o5.html


----------



## Chris80678

A video of S5 Świecie Zachód - Nowe Marzy (A1) (includes the section from Świecie Zachód - Sartowice which opened on 6th August):






The rest of the S5 (Świecie Zachód - Świecie Północ and Świecie Północ - Bydgoszcz Północ) should open in late August.


----------



## xbox36O

Are there plans to upgrade a6 around Szczecin to modern standards? Especially some interchanges were of low standard


----------



## Chris80678

xbox36O said:


> Are there plans to upgrade a6 around Szczecin to modern standards? Especially some interchanges were of low standard


No, there are no plans to upgrade A6 or the other interchanges on it around Szczecin.

Kijewo interchange (A6 / DK10) has already been upgraded to a higher standard.


----------



## xbox36O

Im not to familiar with this area as it was the first time passing by. At least on one occasion was the speedlimit reduced from 140 to 90. I think this was the interchage with road 31


----------



## Kirt93

The existing interchange with DK31 will be demolished, and there will be a new interchange constructed jointly serving S3 and DK31.


----------



## Chris80678

Kirt93 said:


> The existing interchange with DK31 will be demolished, and there will be a new interchange constructed jointly serving S3 and DK31.


Thank you @Kirt93

A video of S61 Ełk Południe - Wysokie (under construction):


----------



## xbox36O

Will the whole A3/S3 be uppgraded from Szeczin to Swinoujscie? All the way to the tunnel?


----------



## Patrako

Chris80678 said:


> No, there are no plans to upgrade A6 or the other interchanges on it around Szczecin.


But there are plans to build a second road linking Kołbaskowo with Goleniów which might decrease traffic on A6
Also, i think they are plannig to fix the Klucz junction with is a major bottleneck


xbox36O said:


> Will the whole A3/S3 be uppgraded from Szeczin to Swinoujscie? All the way to the tunnel?


S3 will go all the way to Świnoujście.
Unfortunettly, the project of the tunnel doesn't include any option to build a grade separated connection with the S3. S3 will have dedicated space for such connector


----------



## Chris80678

There is no A3 in Poland


----------



## Kemo

xbox36O said:


> Will the whole A3/S3 be uppgraded from Szeczin to Swinoujscie? All the way to the tunnel?


What do you mean by upgrading?
Section Szczecin - Goleniów has been modernized recently.
Section Goleniów - Troszyn was constructed and opened last year.
Section Troszyn - Świnoujście is under construction.


----------



## Chris80678

Some good photos of S61 Szczuczyn - Ełk Wschód on this page:









[S61] Ostrów Mazowiecka - Łomża (bez obwodnicy) -...


Jaki więc był sens budowy tego obiektu w samym środku terenu przeznaczonego pod MOP, skoro potem i tak, albo trzeba będzie go rozebrać, albo będzie absurdalnie odłączony od reszty MOPu? Nie lepiej, aby był na samym początku zjazdu? Ale to chyba właśnie po to są te ostre krawędzie, żeby właśnie...




www.skyscrapercity.com





See post no #7,236

Some good photos of signage on Zgorzała exit on S7 Warsaw - Grójec:

[S7] Warszawa - Grójec | Page 486 | SkyscraperCity Forum

See post no #9,713


----------



## SRC_100

The same intersection/junction b/n DK10 & DK5, before and after reconstruction:
Before:

After:

*Source*

S3 u/c - Kamienna Góra:



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=295645389440739


----------



## Chris80678

Next week (w/c 15th Aug 2022) the S5 between Nowe Marzy (A1) and Świecie Południe will be fully completed and open to traffic. The section between Nowe Marzy (A1) and Świecie Północ exit is of course already open (albeit with 80 kmph speed limit).

*This 4 km section will include Świecie Zachód, Świecie Północ and Świecie Południe exits. There will be two lanes in both directions on the Świecie S5 bypass.*

Source (in Polish):

https://bydgoszcz.tvp.pl/61742707/t...EsXsXbC2VYsd6FJupg1TKIAvsdOOJWxKmgsyC01-ym2AI
*By the end of August 2022 the entire S5 in the Kuyavian-Pomeranian province will be passable. This amounts to 45 km.

*The main roadways are almost ready. Currently, works are carried out mainly on access roads.

*The construction of the second section of Świecie Południe-Bydgoszcz Północ is less advanced. At the end of July, 83% of the planned works were carried out here.

*The speed limit of 80 km / h is to disappear from the Białe Błota-Szubin section. The speed limit was put in place to protect workers completing finishing works.


----------



## Chris80678

Nice acoustic screens on overpass at S17 / DK92 interchange:


----------



## Chris80678

From September 2022 the first new section of A18 will be opened

Source (in Polish):









Od września pojedziemy pierwszym odcinkiem A18


Już we wrześniu pojedziemy pierwszym odcinkiem autostrady A18, znanym dotąd jako droga krajowa nr 18. To część najkrótszego połączenia Wrocławia z Berlinem, które liczy ok. 330 km. Remontowany odcinek od okolic Krzyżowej do granicy w Olszynie ma 70 km. Wcześniej znany był jako "Najdłuższe schody...




www.rynekinfrastruktury.pl





*The section of the A18 motorway from the *Żary Zachód exit* to the *Iłowa exit* is the *closest* to the *completion* of the works.


----------



## Chris80678

Signage at S17 / DK92 interchange (under construction):



















Signage for junction with DW638 at Al Pilsudskiego is ready to be erected:


----------



## Patrako

Chris80678 said:


> It looks like the current DK92 heading west from the interchange into central Warsaw does not have a new number allocated to it.


What DK92 heading into Warsaw? There's no such thing


----------



## Chris80678

DEL


----------



## Chris80678

Patrako said:


> What DK92 heading into Warsaw? There's no such thing


DEL


----------



## Cookiefabric

@Chris80678 Not sure if you understand what Patroka is writing.

Therefore, a picture to describe:









1 carriageway available for traffic ("in operation"), while the other is being build.


----------



## Chris80678

Cookiefabric said:


> @Chris80678 Not sure if you understand what Patroka is writing.
> 
> Therefore, a picture to describe:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 carriageway available for traffic ("in operation"), while the other is being build.


Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## SRC_100

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1564645048192466944


----------



## kostas97

The skyline of Warsaw from the S79 looks awesome, especially at that time of the day 😎


----------



## Chris80678

3.5 km of S5 from Świecie Południe to the Gruczno exits was made available to traffic in full 2 × 2 profile today:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1565058347342127109
The remaining S5 between Trzeciewiec and Gruczno exits should be opened in full 2 x 2 profile at the end of September 2022, thus completing the S5 between Bydgoszcz and the A1.


----------



## sun20

Could you give me some examples of 2+1 roads in Poland, existing or ongoing projects?


----------



## Kemo

sun20 said:


> Could you give me some examples of 2+1 roads in Poland, existing or ongoing projects?


DK50 Żyrardów Google Maps
DK74 Wieluń Google Maps
DK74 Bełchatów Google Maps


----------



## sun20

Thank you! Why a median barrier isn't used, like in Sweden? That would prevent frontal collisions. In the first exemple i see that the wire rope barrier is used only on the side of the road.

Also, what is the maximum speed allowed on this type of road?


----------



## Kemo

90 km/h

Sometimes a barrier is used, but apparently it is not standardized.

DK20 Kościerzyna: Google Maps
DK65 Olecko: Google Maps


----------



## PovilD

Barriers are standartised in The Baltics.

Lithuania and Estonia has few 2+1 sections built in the 2010s, all have barriers.

I know one very short Soviet 2+1 (road 140) in Lithuania without a barrier, but this is so rare, I can remember only this section.

Interesting reason I have been reading why we put barriers is snow making road markings less visible.
Germans can make 2+1 without barriers because they have less snow (or less time with snow on asphalt).
Sweden have all 2+1 with barriers because they have more snow (and they don't plow it very often either).


----------



## tunnel owl

In Germany 2+1 with barriers isn´t used because it would mean to have an additional space of 1,5 to 2 m for the median strip. Existing Bundesstraßen do not have this and 2+1 in Germany is mainly built as a protection of accidents from overtaking for existing roads. It makes much more sense to create a barrier if the street is meant for intraregional traffic. I don´t know the situation in Lithuania, but speed limit for big trucks is reduced to 60 km/h without barriers in Germany, whereas with barriers it´s 80 km/h. In many cases it would make sense to fit 2+1 in Germany with barriers. Truck traffic could have the same speed like on Autobahn and streets are mainly build to speed up travel times.


----------



## PovilD

tunnel owl said:


> I don´t know the situation in Lithuania, but speed limit for big trucks is reduced to 60 km/h without barriers in Germany, whereas with barriers it´s 80 km/h. In many cases it would make sense to fit 2+1 in Germany with barriers. Truck traffic could have the same speed like on Autobahn and streets are mainly build to speed up travel times.


No special limits on trucks here for 2+1 with barrier. Speed is 80 km/h for trucks (more than 3.5 tones).


----------



## Sponsor

2+1 with central barier

DK28 Sanok bypass
www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsS0ozGWZC0

DK46 Niemodlina bypass





DK65 Olecko bypass





DK15 Nowe Miasto Lubawskie bypass






S19 Sokołów Małopolski - Jasionka (adjusted recently with flexible bollards)


----------



## PovilD

Adding to my latter post.
We have at least one section where profile is 2+1 because road goes uphill. There was probably main reasoning for 2+1 in those times.








Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




goo.gl


----------



## kokomo

On a 2+1 road with barrier, how are you supposed to overpass a very slow vehicle driving at 40 kmh for instance? Long queues would form if you're on the single lane


----------



## Kemo

You just wait until you get the 2nd lane. Besides, slow vehicles are usually banned on these roads.


----------



## kokomo

Thanks. But wait for how long? If it's a follow up of several kilometers then it's painfully slow and nerving situation


----------



## PovilD

kokomo said:


> Thanks. But wait for how long?


Usually not more than 3 km afaik.


----------



## tunnel owl

I would consider a road with barriers (2+1 or 2+2) only suitabe for vehicles with a minimal speed of 60 km/h.


----------



## sponge_bob

Guys. Can we get some perspective on 2+1 here. 

How much is there, total, in km
How much of that is pre c.2007, when the S road network really started construction, in km. 
How much is located on the S road network, and awaiting full dualling in future?

Finally.

How many km of 2+1 has actually been built since 2007 on the entire non S Road network??


----------



## Lombat

Kemo said:


> "ready for use permit" (I don't know the English term for that), and apparently this permit can only be issued after all works, even those outside of the main carriageways, have been finished.


Lots of papers / documents must be prepared and accepted. That takes some time between finishing of the construction works and obtaining the permit.


----------



## Wolfiq

Lombat said:


> Lots of papers / documents must be prepared and accepted. That takes some time between finishing of the construction works and obtaining the permit.


It's deeply flawed and dangerous practice. This just teaches people to ignore speed limits when there are no roadworks or anything out of order for dozens of kilometers. Obviously when speed limits are actually needed there is risk that people might ignore them. I've recently driven both new A1 and S7 sections with these artificial speed limits. On new A1 it was especially ridiculous, because it's road with 3 wide lanes in each direction and nobody drove 80 or 100km/h.


----------



## 0tomek0

Theijs said:


> Any chance that the A2 will at least be built according to Polish highway standards until the interchange with S19/Via Carpatica?


A2 is contracted until Biała Podlaska and it will be constructed according to the highway standard. BTW today the section closest to Biała Podlaska received a construction permit so we can expect beginning of the works very soon.


----------



## anubis1234

construction status of Via Carpathia (subtitles)


----------



## Chris80678

There have been protests in the village of Kościelec (13 km north-east of Częstochowa).

Residents are not happy about the incessant traffic noise caused by the A1 motorway (which runs past the village).
There are no acoustic screens to reduce the noise on this stretch of the A1.

To add to this are the huge number of lorries using the road through Kościelec as a short cut to reach DK91 from the Mykanów exit on the A1.

Residents say that they cannot live in their own village in peace and want a bypass.

Source (in Polish):









Mieszkańcy Kościelca wyszli na ulicę. Protestowali przeciwko hałasowi od autostrady i tirom pod oknami. - Tu się nie da żyć - mówią







czestochowa.naszemiasto.pl


----------



## Chris80678

How many more road openings can we realistically expect by the end of 2022?

Unfortunately, I don't believe that the Siskom map is accurate so I dont take it as verbatim truth.

This is no reflection on @Kemo who I'm sure does his upmost to keep the map up to date (especially difficult to do when delays aren't always publicly announced).

For example it shows that the final segment of S5 between Bydgoszcz and the A1 is due to open end of September 2022. Yet according to the Polish forum, there have been problems with drainage and excess water flowing beneath the road. Sadly, this may postpone section acceptance and this month's opening. 

Herman's table seems to be out of date too with the top two opening dates (14/09/22 (S61) and 16/09/22 (A18)) having come and gone.

Again this is not a criticism of @Hetman who I'm sure endeavours to keep the table up to date.


----------



## Kirt93

The 1st section of reconstructed A18 has been opened to traffic in full profile (22 km).


Chris80678 said:


> Herman's table seems to be out of date too


I believe everything listed as 2022 in Hetman's table should get opened in 2022 (maybe there's also a chance for some other "driveability" openings, but nothing certain I guess), even if the exact dates will be later than those in the table.


----------



## sponge_bob

Kirt93 said:


> I believe everything listed as 2022 in Hetman's table should get opened in 2022


At the other end ...was everything planned for tender in 2022 tendered???


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kirt93 said:


> The 1st section of reconstructed A18 has been opened to traffic in full profile (22 km).


Today? I don't see any press release by GDDKiA.


----------



## Kirt93

Few days ago. https://www.gov.pl/web/gddkia-zielona-gora/gotowy-pierwszy-z-czterech-odcinkow-a18



sponge_bob said:


> At the other end ...was everything planned for tender in 2022 tendered???


No, due to the ministry's incompetence the new Road Construction Plan, intended to have been passed in 2021, is still not ready to be passed. So sections of S7, S16 & S74 are ready for tender but keep being blocked for procedural reasons. If they manage to sort out the paperwork before the end of the year, then I guess we shall see a huge number of tenders in December, otherwise the plan will not get fulfilled.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Kirt93 said:


> Few days ago. https://www.gov.pl/web/gddkia-zielona-gora/gotowy-pierwszy-z-czterech-odcinkow-a18


If I read it correctly, they obtained a permit to open it, but that actual opening will take place over a period of 2 weeks. Or did they finish it quicker and is it already open with 2x2 lanes over the entire segment?


----------



## Kirt93

Both carriageways are definitely open already, not sure if there might be some cleanup works ongoing on the old carriageway still.


----------



## Chris80678

A nice aerial video of S17 / DK92 interchange:






Posted by @RAV69 in the Polish forum.

Due to open at the end of 2022.


----------



## Kemo

ChrisZwolle said:


> If I read it correctly, they obtained a permit to open it, but that actual opening will take place over a period of 2 weeks. Or did they finish it quicker and is it already open with 2x2 lanes over the entire segment?


The new southern carriageway is already 2 lanes, but I haven't seen news about the northern carriageway being already fully opened. They need to remove the separators.


----------



## 0tomek0

Chris80678 said:


> How many more road openings can we realistically expect by the end of 2022?
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't believe that the Siskom map is accurate so I dont take it as verbatim truth.
> 
> This is no reflection on @Kemo who I'm sure does his upmost to keep the map up to date (especially difficult to do when delays aren't always publicly announced).
> 
> For example it shows that the final segment of S5 between Bydgoszcz and the A1 is due to open end of September 2022. Yet according to the Polish forum, there have been problems with drainage and excess water flowing beneath the road. Sadly, this may postpone section acceptance and this month's opening.


Most of the section of S6 bypassing Gdynia and Wejherowo is de facto ready, but there are major works ongoing at the connection of the new road and the existing S6. The opening of the whole road can be definitely expected this year. As @Kemo said, the only section of A18 scheduled for opening this year is in the process of being opened in full profie.
The only non-read section of A1 is also getting ready, several days ago the GDDKiA released info about laying the final layer of concrete. The finishing works, painting lane markings etc. will take place now and opening it this month is plausible, might be slightly postponed of course, it's definitely coming this year.
And there comes the S5, which is also almost ready and the cars are using both carriageways of the road, but only one lane on each, while finishing works are slowly moving forward. Again, there might be some delays, but opening this particular section this year is a safe assumption.


----------



## MichiH

Chris80678 said:


> For example it shows that the final segment of S5 between Bydgoszcz and the A1 is due to open end of September 2022. Yet according to the Polish forum, there have been problems with drainage and excess water flowing beneath the road. Sadly, this may postpone section acceptance and this month's opening.


Both carriageways are in service on the section but only one lane per direction. Speed limit is 60km/h just like the section south of it (I think 22km in total if memory serves) which is indicated being "in service" on http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/ The S of S5 is pasted over with a label on direction signs so that it looks like vanilla (DK) "5". There were a lot of workers on-site today. A car was doing 65km/h in front of me, causing a long queue....

S7 near Mlawa is 2x2 in service with a 80km/h speed limit over a long distance because of ongoing construction. You are the slowest car (only trucks are slightly slower) when you drive 110km/h....


----------



## Chris80678

There are some good photos of the Gdynia Wielki Kack interchange (under construction) in this article (in Polish):









Coraz bliżej ukończenia węzła Gdynia Wielki Kack na S6


Węzeł Gdynia Wielki Kack połączy Obwodnicę Trójmiasta z ul. Chwaszczyńską. Dzięki niemu kierowcy będą mogli pojechać zarówno w stronę Gdańska, autostrady A1 do Łodzi i na Górny Śląsk, jak i gdyńskiego portu, Chyloni, Szczecina czy Żukowa.




www.rynekinfrastruktury.pl





The Gdynia Wielki Kack junction will connect the Tricity Beltway with ul. Chwaszczyńska. Thanks to it, drivers will be able to go towards Gdańsk, the A1 motorway to Łódź and Upper Silesia, as well as the port of Gdynia, Chylonia, Szczecin or Żukowo.

To summarise:

*The S6 route is almost ready;

*Drivers are to go from Bożepole Wielkie to Gdynia this year;

*Two episodes are ready;

*The Bożepole Wielkie junction over the railway tracks is available for traffic;

*In May 2022, the works on the Luzino - Szemud section were completed.

Completion of Gdynia Wielki Kack interchange and the S6 from Bożepole Wielkie to Gdynia is getting closer!


----------



## Chris80678

This article outlines the current progress of the construction of S14 around Łódź:

Source (in Polish):









Łódzkie: trwa budowa S14 Aleksandrów Łódzki-Słowik. Znamy stan zaawansowania prac


Prawie 80% wynosi stan zaawansowania prac przy budowie S14 między węzłem Aleksandrów Łódzki i Słowikiem. Roboty mają się zakończyć w drugim kwartale przyszłego roku.




www.rynekinfrastruktury.pl





To summarise:

*Almost 80% is the progress of works on the construction of the S14 between the Aleksandrów Łódzki junction and Słowik (16 km long);

*All major structures (overpasses, underpasses) on the route are complete;

*Industry works were completed in 75%, and road works in almost 60%. Over 40% of the pavement has also been laid, and almost 30% of protective barriers have been installed;

*The works are to be completed in the second quarter of next year;

*Once this section is finished in 2023 the ring around Łódź will be fully completed.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Turkish construction companies have found their way to Poland:



https://www.gov.pl/web/gddkia-rzeszow/poznalismy-oferty-w-przetargach-na-dwa-ostatnie-odcinki-s19-w-woj-podkarpackim



Lot of Turkish offers on two contracts for S19 south of Rzeszów.


----------



## Patrako

It's so strange to see Gulermark working with Budimex. 
I think it is the first time that they submited an offer together


----------



## Cookiefabric

^^ With the S2 bridge they didn't do a bad job and my guess is that Budimex is lacking some resources. Might be an interesting combination for more, but for now: If you don't try, you'll never know


----------



## SRC_100

Construction of northern bypass of Cracovia town along road no. 52:





Btw, this contract is delayed few years already and it seems that construction takes few years more.


----------



## sponge_bob

SRC_100 said:


> Btw, this contract is delayed few years already and it seems that construction takes few years more.


Seems to progress OK since construction started, were the delays caused by court cases before anyone got on site???


----------



## Signar

A2 Swory-Biała Podlaska u/c


----------



## Chris80678

Signar said:


> A2 Swory-Biała Podlaska u/c


It seems that on openstreetmap this part of A2 will lead nowhere to/from Swory!:


----------



## Signar

Yes. Next part is waiting for permission (Międzyrzec Podlaski- Dwory)


----------



## PovilD

It's interesting feeling when you realize A2 is not completed.
It feels A2 completed ages ago, till you realize it's whole Eastern part that is not operational.

We are already in situation most A-roads are completed or u/c, except for East Poland A2 part.


----------



## Patrako

PovilD said:


> It feels A2 completed ages ago, till you realize it's whole Eastern part that is not operational.


Actually there's far more traffic heading east of Warsaw to Bialystok than there is heading to Siedlce, so the A2 wasn't that big of the priority


----------



## PovilD

Patrako said:


> Actually there's far more traffic heading east of Warsaw to Bialystok than there is heading to Siedlce, so the A2 wasn't that big of the priority


It's almost road to nowhere right now.
It supposed to be part of Moscow-Berlin motorway.


----------



## Chris80678

PovilD said:


> It's almost road to nowhere right now.
> It supposed to be part of Moscow-Berlin motorway.


Indeed it is part of Berlin - Warsaw - Moscow motorway.

Let's be thankful that Warsaw now has a motorway right to Berlin (that was years in the making in itself).


----------



## Chris80678

A good aerial view of S17 / DK92 interchange:










For comparison this is what the same area looked like in September 2019:


----------



## Chris80678

Podborze interchange (S8 / S61) on the outskirts of Ostrów Mazowiecka (under construction):





























All photos taken in the direction of Suwałki (northbound).

All photos posted by @nemox007 in the Polish forum.

This interchange along with the S61 Podborze (Ostrów Mazowiecka) - Śniadowo is due to be passable by May 2023.


----------



## Chris80678

S61 Suwałki - Polish / Lithuanian border (under construction):


----------



## zelenec1

nice landscape, like some high plateu in the Alps


----------



## Chris80678

zelenec1 said:


> nice landscape, like some high plateu in the Alps


No mountains in this part of Poland 😉


----------



## keber

And yet, it is probably the most "hilly" and highest part on the route between Warzsaw and Tallin.


----------



## Chris80678

keber said:


> And yet, it is probably the most "hilly" and highest part on the route between Warzsaw and Tallin.


I do believe that it is more hilly across the border in Lithuania 🇱🇹


----------



## PovilD

I did some elevation research on Google Maps.
Indeed, highest location on Via Baltica is between Szipliszki and Lithuanian border. Highest point - 230+ m above sea level. We only have A3 here in Lithuania that sees higher elevations (230-260 m a.s.l.)

It's the only highland area in Via Baltica. We have our highland part too in Lithuania with elevation 170-190 m. The same "highland range" (if we could call like this) as in Poland.
The rest of the Via Baltica lies on lowlands, even reaching seaside (up to 70-90 m above sea level, average 30-40 m)


----------



## Chris80678

S6 Bożepole Wielkie exit (awaiting opening):











S61 Ełk Południe - Wysokie (under construction):


----------



## Chris80678

*Budimex has been given the authorisation to build the first of the two sections of the Tricity Metropolitan Ring Road (Chwaszczyno - Żukowo).

*This section is over 16 km long and is expected to be completed in 2025.

*It will be a dual carriageway expressway with two lanes in each direction.

*Twelve viaducts, three bridges, four flyovers, six animal overpasses and a footbridge will be built.

*The works include finishing the interchange with S6 at Chwaszczyno.

*Works will begin once S6 Bożepole Wielkie - Gdynia opens to traffic (in October or November).

Source (in Polish):









Budimex może ruszać z robotami na obwodnicy Trójmiasta


Wojewoda pomorski wydal decyzję zezwalającą na realizację inwestycji drogowej dla pierwszego z dwóch odcinków Obwodnicy Metropolii Trójmiejskiej. Mowa o fragmencie Chwaszczyno – Żukowo. Za jego realizację odpowiada Budimex.




www.rynekinfrastruktury.pl


----------



## Sponsor

PovilD said:


> I did some elevation research on Google Maps.
> Indeed, highest location on Via Baltica is between Szipliszki and Lithuanian border. Highest point - 230+ m above sea level. We only have A3 here in Lithuania that sees higher elevations (230-260 m a.s.l.)
> 
> It's the only highland area in Via Baltica. We have our highland part too in Lithuania with elevation 170-190 m. The same "highland range" (if we could call like this) as in Poland.
> The rest of the Via Baltica lies on lowlands, even reaching seaside (up to 70-90 m above sea level, average 30-40 m)


PL/LT border to Raczki


----------



## Nowax

*[S52] Kraków Northern Bypass*


----------



## Chris80678

The bypass of Trzebiatów in West Pomerania (north-west Poland) has opened. It is only 1.7 km long. It diverts DW102 to the north of the town taking transit traffic to the Baltic coast (9 km to the north of Trzebiatów) out of the town centre.











This is the third part of the bypass, which was attached to fragments made in 2012.

In Trzebiatów, three provincial roads converge, on which, especially in the high season, tourist traffic towards Mrzeżyno, Rewal or Pobierowo is concentrated.

The completed section of the bypass cost nearly PLN 26.2 million, of which construction works cost PLN 23.3 million. The previous two cost PLN 31 million. In each case, the European Union has contributed to the investment.

Source (in Polish):

Łatwiej nad morze. Otwarto obwodnicę Trzebiatowa - Rynek Infrastruktury: Porty, Stocznie, Lotnisko, Porty lotnicze, Autostrada, Obwodnica, Energetyka, Ciepłownictwo, Linie kolejowe, PKP PLK, Telekomunikacja, Operatorzy


----------



## Chris80678

On Monday 10th October 2022, GDDKIA will open a fragment of S6 (from Strzebielino to Bożepole Wielkie).

Source (in Polish):










It will make little difference to transit traffic as it will just allow it to bypass the villages of Bożepole Wielkie and Strzebielino.

Meanwhile, a video of Chwaszczyno interchange (under construction):






In the future this is where the Trojmiasto Bypass will continue to Żukowo.


----------



## 0tomek0

Chris80678 said:


> It will make little difference to transit traffic as it will just allow it to bypass the villages of Bożepole Wielkie and Strzebielino.


And huge difference for the citizens of those villages. Opening the bridge over the railway line will also be a big benefit for the locals. The opening of even this small section will be a really good piece of news.


----------



## Chris80678

0tomek0 said:


> And huge difference for the citizens of those villages. Opening the bridge over the railway line will also be a big benefit for the locals. The opening of even this small section will be a really good piece of news.


Good 👍


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I drove across the Karkonosze today, from D10 at Turnov to S3 at Bolków. It's quite a long ride, not a high-standard road at all.

I was wondering whether there are plans to improve accessibility of Jelenia Góra. DK3 is a fairly low standard road, quite curvy and somewhat narrow. Not your typical main route to a city of that size. There was a lot of traffic on that road, with big traffic congestion at Kaczorów, there was no crash, so I wonder if this is 'normal' for that road?

One segment of DK3 has been bypassed by a provincial road (DW337) which was the best part of the entire route outside of Jelenia Góra (Google Maps labels it as DK3, but it is signed as DW337, it bypasses Maciejowa).


----------



## 0tomek0

The bypass of Kaczorów is being planned. More than 2 years ago GDAKiA signed a contract regarding:
1. Pre-design phase (STEŚ, technology/environmental study). The environmental/localization permit will be issued after this phase.
2. Design phase. After this phase a construcion permit will be issued and GDAKiA will be able to call a tender for construction (Optimize + build or build).

All these works concern also (pre) designing of an upgrade of the section between Maciejowa bypass and Bolków to 2×2 standard.

Here you can find the proposed route.


----------



## Chris80678

S14 Łódź Western Bypass (stage 2: Aleksandrów Łódzki - A2) (under construction):


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A contract has been signed for the southernmost segment of S19, between Dukla and the Slovak border at Barwinek (18.2 km).

So things are moving fast in Poland. But nothing seems to happen across the border in Slovakia? It's still a pretty long route from the border to Prešov.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579439149895290880


----------



## ChrisZwolle

More news from today: a groundbreaking ceremony was held for two contracts, totaling 27 kilometers of S1 between Oświęcim and Bielsko-Biała.

The earlier completion date as per the contract was November 2023, but this appears highly unlikely?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1579413354531409920


----------



## 0tomek0

ChrisZwolle said:


> The earlier completion date as per the contract was November 2023, but this appears highly unlikely?


Very unlikely. 2 years is a minimal reasonable time for such construction, adding winter breaks we can expect, that it will have been finished by June 2025 (a warm winter and no suprises could move it to December 2024). The significant delay is caused by late construction permit issue. Unfortunately, the time between applying environmental and construction permits and their issuance, has increased drastically within last few years.


----------



## sponge_bob

Things seem to have slowed down a lot in Poland, fewer new tenders than expected in January and long delays on finishing design phases and starting actual construction.

With any luck they will revisit their former levels of efficiency again, soon I hope .


----------



## geogregor

sponge_bob said:


> With any luck they will revisit their former levels of efficiency again, soon I hope .


It might be unlikely. The "easy" bits of the network were often done, new schemes might be in more challenging regions (topographically or/and environmentally) or in urban areas.

It is also worth pointing out that random and messy suburbanization of Poland increases number of NIMBYs with every year. We are literally throwing houses, and even blocks, everywhere, like cow dung on a field.

It is especially evident in the south of the country. For example planning any routes south of Krakow will be a nightmare.


----------



## sponge_bob

geogregor said:


> It might be unlikely.


In the last 10 years Poland has rolled on and rolled off a reliable 300km a year of S and A projects so do you want to take a stab at the run rate by 2027 then???


----------



## geogregor

sponge_bob said:


> In the last 10 years Poland has rolled on and rolled off a reliable 300km a year of S and A projects so do you want to take a stab at the run rate by 2027 then???


200 km, possibly a bit more or, more likely, less.

No country can sustain recent Polish rates for decades (unless we are talking China or other Asian giants). Apart from more difficulties in more affluent society (higher costs, more difficult legal environment, more public opposition) at some point more money will have to go for maintenance and widening schemes. EU funding for laying thousands of km of tarmac won't last forever either.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

geogregor said:


> EU funding for laying thousands of km of tarmac won't last forever either.


It seems to have dried up pretty much entirely for the next rounds of funding. Recent TEN-T or recovery funding rounds included practically zero funding for roads, with the exception of Via Carpathia and A7 in Romania. 

EU funding for roads in western Europe has been symbolic for quite some time. Even TEN-T projects only receive marginal funding that may cover part of the planning cost, but not any substantial funding for construction like we have seen in Central/Eastern Europe over the past decade (up to 85%).

At some point, economies should've matured enough that they can sustain funding of infrastructure themselves instead of being on an EU infusion indefinitely.

Poland is advancing with completing its motorway network, by the mid 2020s it will be mostly S10 and S11 that remain largely incomplete long-distance corridors.


----------



## Chris80678

An aerial view of Podborze interchange on S8:










Currently being reconstructed to allow for connection with S61.

At this point there is temporarily a break in the S8.


----------



## Chris80678

An aerial view of S17 from DK92 to Lubelska interchange (A2 / S2):






Due to open soon.

In photo below there is immediately less traffic going through Bożepole Wielkie thanks to the opening of S6 to Strzebielino!


----------



## Chris80678

S7 (Section B from Lesznowola - Tarczyn Północ) (under construction):






Timestamps:

0:27 - Antoninów exit
5:02 - Złotokłos exit
9:48 - Tarzcyn Północ exit
14:32 - Tarczyn Południe exit

Video made in September 2022.

Posted by @hacky in the Polish forum.

Let us hope that winter in Poland isn't bad. Works will have to continue on this section during winter if it is to be completed by spring 2023.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This segment will open in December 2022 according to 'the' map:



http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/


----------



## Chris80678

ChrisZwolle said:


> This segment will open in December 2022 according to 'the' map:
> 
> 
> 
> http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/


Indeed. It looks possible.

Pity that no progress is being made in completing the rest of Warsaw Eastern Bypass (S17).


----------



## Chris80678

A video of A1 Piotrków Trybunalski - Kamieńsk:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The environmental decision has been taken for the DK12 bypass of Głogów in Southwestern Poland. This is a fairly big project, 18 kilometers, 2x2 lanes, 4 interchanges and a bridge across the Odra River. It will link up to the S3 interchange at the western end.



https://www.gov.pl/web/gddkia-wroclaw/jest-decyzja-srodowiskowa-dla-obwodnicy-glogowa


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The 2058 meter long Tunnel Luboń of S7 between Kraków and Rabka is pretty much completed. Apparently it will open within a week or two. It is the second-longest road tunnel in Poland.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582677596747153410


----------



## Chris80678

ChrisZwolle said:


> The 2058 meter long Tunnel Luboń of S7 between Kraków and Rabka is pretty much completed. Apparently it will open within a week or two. It is the second-longest road tunnel in Poland.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1582677596747153410


Has it passed all of its technical inspections and emergency evacuation tests?

What's the longest road tunnel in Poland now - Ursynów Tunnel on S2?

Some sources state that Luboń Tunnel is Poland's longest road tunnel.


----------



## MAG

Chris80678 said:


> Has it passed all of its technical inspections and emergency evacuation tests?


Technical and safety approvals are in progress. The tunnel is due to open in about two weeks. In the meantime, enjoy these images.









© Krzysztof Kalinowski, GDDKiA
.


----------



## Chris80678

Here's a video of Luboń Tunnel too:


----------



## Kemo

The Polish motorway network is starting to look more like a network. Last night another motorway loop was completed: Poznań - Grudziądz - Łódź, formed by S5-A1-A2.

Map:





Graphhopper Maps


Plan routes and get driving directions from GraphHopper Maps using open source and open data




graphhopper.com


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This is pretty significant, linking Wrocław, Poznań, Bydgoszcz and Gdańsk by uninterrupted motorway.

It also makes Gdańsk more accessible from western Europe, as you can reach it entirely by motorway. It will be even better when S6 is completed.


----------



## Chris80678

Moreover, with the completion of the A1 upgrade (Wola Krzysztoporska - Kamieńsk) in October / November, Gdańsk will be reached entirely by motorway from Czechia !

Poland's motorway network is really developing faster everyday.


----------



## Chris80678

Gorzów Śląski & Praszka DK45 bypass (under construction):






Works are 85% complete.

The bypass is due to open in the first quarter of 2023.

Video posted by @Maciej78 in the Polish forum.


----------



## Chris80678

A video of S6 Szemud - Gdynia Wielki Kack (under construction):









Budowa drogi S-6, zadanie 3: węzeł Szemud - węzeł Gdynia Wielki Kack | By BudRen | Facebook


၅၁၁ views, ၆ likes, ၃ loves, ၀ comments, ၈ shares, Facebook Watch Videos from BudRen: Budowa drogi S-6, zadanie 3: węzeł Szemud - węzeł Gdynia Wielki Kack




fb.watch


----------



## random_user_name

Chris80678 said:


> Here's a video of Luboń Tunnel too:


What's the point of hard shoulder on the left side of the road? It looks as wide as shoulder on the right side.


----------



## sponge_bob

random_user_name said:


> What's the point of hard shoulder on the left side of the road?


Roof too low. It is an escape route for pedestrians to the other tunnel too.


----------



## Kemo

random_user_name said:


> What's the point of hard shoulder on the left side of the road? It looks as wide as shoulder on the right side.


The tunnel has space reservation for the third lane.
For the time being, it makes more sense to have hard shoulders on both sides instead of just one.


----------



## Chris80678

This route has come to be known as 'The Ring of Poland' as it is only using involves expressways (S2, S3, S5, S17, S19) and motorways (A1, A2, A4):


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What is the likelyhood that the tunnel at Świnoujście would still open this year?


----------



## Chris80678

I'd say low likelihood of opening this year.

According to this article (in Polish):









Otwarcie tunelu w Świnoujściu w maju?


W maju 2023 roku planowane jest otwarcie tunelu pod Świną w Świnoujściu. Minęły właśnie cztery lata od zawarcia umowy na tę kluczową dla mieszkańców miasta i turystów inwestycję. Prace na budowie zaawansowane są w ponad 82 proc.




www.rynekinfrastruktury.pl





*Works are over 82% complete.

*We already have tunnel entrances / exits on both islands. Work is underway on access roads.

*In the tunnel itself, work on emergency exits is completed.

*The contractor - the Porr / Gülermak consortium, declares that it will complete construction works by the end of this year.

*We are left to believe that the contractor will meet the deadline of May 2023 and we will pass the tunnel next summer season - says the vice-president of Świnoujście.

You can find the latest construction photos here:









[DK93] Tunel pod Świną w Świnoujściu


uniewaznienie.pdf




www.skyscrapercity.com


----------



## tarkastad

Chris80678 said:


> This route has come to be known as 'The Ring of Poland' as it is only using involves expressways (S2, S3, S5, S17, S19) and motorways (A1, A2, A4):
> 
> View attachment 4036826


Is S19 completely finished near Rzeszów?


----------



## Patrako

A photo that's giving former Czech minister of transportation nightmares.




__





Loading…






www.seznamzpravy.cz





This part of S3 will a a little bit like a sea, won't it? It will exist, but Czech won't be able to access it


----------



## Cookiefabric

Feel free to ask Belgium how GTI's work


----------



## geogregor

pettylein said:


> I have to disappoint you. It's not the Polish-Czech border. There are still 30km to the border. This is next to Sady Dolne at 50.905007, 16.155047.
> 
> But this road will lead to the border and is under construction.


Good spot. I was a bit surprised ho well advanced the stretch by the border was but didn't think twice about it.

Cheeky folks running GDDKiA Twitter account, they managed to fool me


----------



## Eulanthe

Patrako said:


> A photo that's giving former Czech minister of transportation nightmares.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.seznamzpravy.cz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This part of S3 will a a little bit like a sea, won't it? It will exist, but Czech won't be able to access it


To be honest, it's not perfect on the Polish side as well. Without the S5 from Bolków to Kostomłoty, the existing DK5 is going to be unbearable, especially if the Czechs speed up the construction of the D11.


----------



## Puritan

geogregor said:


> https://twitter.com/GDDKiA_Warszawa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This image reminds me US freeways leading to some random Midwest downtown.
> 
> I still remember some of my first impressions of American highways, during the first visits in the US, some 20 years ago.
> 
> Back then we could only dream about similar views in Poland....


Sometimes I have the same feeling when I see Polish roads and the surrounding landscapes.

Somewhere in Wisconsin*:





































** s7 near Miechów in October.*

Source:


https://s7moczydlo-miechow.pl/multimedia-szczegoly/2022-10-01-411-2


----------



## Chris80678

Photos like these show how far Poland has come in road infrastructure development!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Chris80678 said:


> Photos like these show how far Poland has come in road infrastructure development!


Yeah, I've been to Poland twice this year, after not having been to the country in about 9 years. I first entered Poland in 2000. 

The difference is staggering. I was walking around the center of Poznań, and I asked myself, 'why do these people migrate to Western Europe for work?' Live seems good in Poland, at least in such cities. It's modern, people were out and about and enjoying themselves in a bar or restaurant. 

I was talking to a couple of Polish bikers in the Italian Alps and they were from Wałbrzych. They told me it used to take them all day to reach the coast, now they can do it in four hours.


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> The difference is staggering. I was walking around the center of Poznań, and I asked myself, '*why do these people migrate to Western Europe for work?*' Live seems good in Poland, at least in such cities. It's modern, people were out and about and enjoying themselves in a bar or restaurant.


Well, they don't. Mass emigration from Poland has largely ended. Most of the Polish diaspora, including myself, emigrated in the first decade after we joined the EU. And most of it happened from smaller towns and rural regions

Big cities, like Poznan, Krakow or Wroclaw, were always underrepresented in emigrating cohort and nowadays emigration from such cities is even more rare. And nowadays it is more because people want to spend some time abroad rather because they have to go for economic reasons.

When economic emigration still exists it is from peripheral underdeveloped regions. If you have to move from some rural shi*thole you can just as well move to Netherlands as you would to Warsaw or Wroclaw.


----------



## Chris80678

Hetman's table doesn't seem to be updated anymore.

For example, A1 and S5 opening on 31/10 has come and gone.

Is there a delay in completing A1 Wola Krzysztoporska - Kamieńsk?


----------



## Chris80678

Signage at Szemud exit on S6 (under construction):










Distance sign after Koleczkowo exit:










Exit 52 is at Chwaszczyno.

Photos posted by @shadow95 in the Polish forum.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

How many wildlife crossings does Poland have? I did a count back in 2014 when there were 70, but the number of new motorways & expressways has expanded drastically since then.

I mean this type of wildlife crossing, not a tube or culvert.

S5 Poznań - Wrocław 49 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## JanVL

According to this article of June 2021, 168 were built and 50 were under construction. 









Przejścia dla zwierząt nad drogami w Polsce – jak wyglądają, ile ich naprawdę jest?


Polskie przejścia dla zwierząt nad drogami szybkiego ruchu budzą zadziwiająco wiele emocji: sporo osób twierdzi, że ich w ogóle w naszym kraju nie ma, niektórzy zaś uważają, że ciężkie ziemne konst…




www.crazynauka.pl


----------



## Chris80678

A video of S61 Ełk Południe - Wysokie (under construction):






It may possibly open sooner than spring 2023.

Getting this gap in S61 filled in will greatly reduce travel time between Łomża and Suwałki.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A 14 kilometer new alignment of DK40 east of Kędzierzyn-Koźle in Opole Voivodeship has opened to traffic today. It's a 2+1 road. 



https://www.gov.pl/web/infrastruktura/obwodnica-kedzierzyna-kozla-dostepna-dla-kierowcow


----------



## Chris80678

The Luboń Mały Tunnel (officially named the Marii i Lecha Kaczyńskich Tunnel) on the S7 expressway will open on Saturday 12th November at 11.30am.

It is Poland's longest road (mountain) tunnel at 2058m.

Only the S2 Ursynów Tunnel is longer at 2330m (that is however, a cut and cover tunnel and not a tunnel which has been bored through a mountain).

Source (in Polish):









Oficjalnie: w sobotÄ™ pojedziemy tunelem - podhale24.pl


Ministerstwo Infrastruktury potwierdziÅ‚o, Å¼e tunel na drodze ekspresowej S7 Skomielna BiaÅ‚a - Naprawa zostanie oficjalnie otwarty w najbliÅ¼szÄ… sobotÄ™ 12 listopada. Oficjalne zaproszenie na uroczystoÅ›Ä‡ otrzymali juÅ¼ samorzÄ…dowcy z naszego regionu.



podhale24.pl


----------



## metacatfry

Driving from Lithuania to Germany late next year, which route will be better? I note that driving Elk - Olsztyn - Grudziadz - Poznan - German border will only have two significant gaps, Elk-Mragowo and Ostroda-Grudziadz. So is that better in that I avoid Warszaw?


----------



## krzysiek997

metacatfry said:


> Driving from Lithuania to Germany late next year, which route will be better? I note that driving Elk - Olsztyn - Grudziadz - Poznan - German border will only have two significant gaps, Elk-Mragowo and Ostroda-Grudziadz. So is that better in that I avoid Warszaw?


Driving Elk - Olsztyn - Grudziadz - Poznan route youre less likely to get stuck in traffic, and the road is picturesque.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Chris80678 said:


> It is Poland's longest road tunnel.


The S2 Tunnel Ursynów is longer (2330 m vs 2058 m). However that is a cut & cover tunnel, while the Luboń Tunnel is an actual mountain tunnel.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yellow centerline? (DK40)


----------



## krzysiek997

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yellow centerline? (DK40)
> <image>


Sth like this but just the bottom part. 








IMHO Swedish solution is much safer (cable barrier) but its better than no separation at all.


----------



## 0tomek0

sponge_bob said:


> Offhand I think Astaldi broke through on one tunnel in late 2019, 2.5 years after they started blasting and digging and the other bore over 2 years ago. They would have spent a lot of the time since on drainage and lining. The overall contract price was fairly reasonable back in 2016 I thought, somewhere not far north of €10m a km for 17km, including the 2km Tunnel.
> 
> Good luck getting anyone to tender €10m a km, or less, in Poland in future. Even in dead flat farmland with few exits.


The total cost for that tunnel section was 970 mln PLN, around 200 mln EUR. Since it was only a 3 km section, the price per km is somewhere between 60 and 70 mln EUR (depending o the EUR/PLN exchange rate).


----------



## Cookiefabric

ChrisZwolle said:


> This Astaldi contract was the only one that was not canceled, out of all the 'Italian Jobs' in Poland in recent years, if I'm correct.
> 
> This project was completed considerably behind schedule. But apparently Astaldi managed to convince the authorities that they were going to complete it faster than if they would re-tender the work. Retendering projects have proven to result in at least a year and usually up to two years delay, on top of the delay already incurred by the previous contractor. Romania has had the same experience.


I guess you forgot about the S2 Tunnel project


----------



## sponge_bob

0tomek0 said:


> The total cost for that tunnel section was 970 mln PLN, around 200 mln EUR. Since it was only a 3 km section, the price per km is somewhere between 60 and 70 mln EUR (depending o the EUR/PLN exchange rate).


I thought it was 17km of S7 including the tunnel for around €220m . Hilly country construction too. 






Astaldi begins drilling tunnels on Poland’s S7 dual carriageway


Italian contractor Astaldi has begun drilling two parallel tunnels as part of its S7 dual carriageway project in Poland. Each tunnel, between Naprawa and Skomielna Biala and under the Lubon Maly massif, will each be just over 2km long. Astaldi, based in Rome, won the three-year S7 dual...




www.worldhighways.com


----------



## ChrisZwolle

sponge_bob said:


> Good luck getting anyone to tender €10m a km, or less, in Poland in future. Even in dead flat farmland with few exits.


A tender for S12 from Chełm to Dorohusk is estimated at 1.3 billion PLN for 23 km, or € 12 million/km in flat rural terrain. The lowest bid was 1 000 000 000 zł or € 9.2 million/km.

This indeed seems to rule out the previous 'standard' of € 7 million/km in rural areas. That's a 40%+ price increase. 

On the other hand, 10 out of 12 bids were below the GDDKiA cost estimate.



https://www.gov.pl/web/gddkia-lublin/12-ofert-w-przetargu-na-budowe-s12-chelm---dorohusk


----------



## sponge_bob

ChrisZwolle said:


> That's a 40%+ price increase.


I am genuinely worried that Europe will see a concrete 'shortage' next year what with gas prices where they are now, even if off the peaks.


----------



## 0tomek0

sponge_bob said:


> I thought it was 17km of S7 including the tunnel for around €220m . Hilly country construction too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Astaldi begins drilling tunnels on Poland’s S7 dual carriageway
> 
> 
> Italian contractor Astaldi has begun drilling two parallel tunnels as part of its S7 dual carriageway project in Poland. Each tunnel, between Naprawa and Skomielna Biala and under the Lubon Maly massif, will each be just over 2km long. Astaldi, based in Rome, won the three-year S7 dual...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.worldhighways.com


That message was inaccurate. Astaldi's contract concerned the 3,1 km section with the tunnel from the beginning.


----------



## sponge_bob

Porr got 16km of S3, Bolków – Kamienna Góra , including that 2.3km tunnel section for around €300m, 2 years after Astaldi were awarded the S7 tunnel. Considering much of the non tunneled portion of Bolków – Kamienna Góra is viaduct that is not a bad price per km given the difficulty of the terrain either.


----------



## 0tomek0

The conditions in the Carpathian Mountains are far more diffucult than in Sudetes. Also ADECO-RS is a slightly more expensive method than NATM. The breaktogough was acheved way quicker than on the S7 tunnel.


----------



## sponge_bob

The machine being used on the S19 tunnel already did the M-30 in Madrid. It has been refurbed of course and would be good for both bores. It might even do the longer tunnel nearer SK, after another refurb, if Acciona win that one.


----------



## geogregor

November shots of S61 from the air:









Zdjęcia z powietrza - Listopad - Budowa drogi ekspresowej S61 Ełk-Wysokie


1.KM-23+255 2.ZBR1b 3.KM-23+500 4.KM-24+000 5.KM-24+500 6.KM-25+000 8.KM-26+000 9.PZDdz-26.0 10.KM-26+300 11.WS-26.3 12.KM-27+000 13.KM 27+500 14.PZM-27.2 15.KM 28+000 16.KM 28+500 17.WD-28.6 18.KM 29+000 19.KM 29+500 20.KM 30+000 21.WS_PZDdz-29.9 22.KM 30+500 23.KM 31+000 24.WD-31.3 25.KM...




s61-elk-wysokie.pl





Some shots there really could be taken in Wisconsin or Iowa.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

S7 at the new Tunnel Luboń


----------



## Chris80678

Incredible shots! Love them!


----------



## Mkbewe

@*ChrisZwolle*
Expensive to build and probably maintain, but at least pretty.
Still I prefer roads on flatlands - more efficient and bigger boost to local economy.


----------



## Patrako

Mkbewe said:


> bigger boost to local economy.


Actually S7 hurt the local economy. Most of the buses that used to stop in Rabka, now use the bypass


----------



## Lombat

*About the approval of new polish program for road construction (RPBDK2030) and coming tenders.*

In June, I wrote an article about the _Strategic Environmental Impact Assessment _of the draft of _Government Program for the Construction of National Roads until 2030 _(RPBDK2030) and the risks associated with it.
(It was published in July)

It is still actuall.

From what has been announced for "coming soon" since the ending of the 2021, we still do not have a design tenders for the project of widening A2 Łódź-Warszawa, and for the project of S7 northern exit from Warsaw.
Today it was announced that design and build tenders for 2 sections S16 near Olsztyn and 3 secitons of S17 near Zamość will come soon.
From the other side, it was announced today about the readiness to start a design tender for the widening of A2, but the GDDKiA is waiting for the funding approval by the government.
We may interpret this as a waiting for the approval of RPBDK2030, which may be highly problematic for environmental reasons, which are discussed in my article.
This interpretation may not be correct.

The government still says that approval of RPBDK2030 is going to happen the fourth quarter of 2022.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The final contract for S6 between Szczecin and Gdańsk has been signed yesterday. A contract was awarded to Chinese construction company Stecol to build the last remaining segment of S6 between Sławno and Słupsk (22.9 km).



https://www.gov.pl/web/infrastruktura/umowa-na-realizacje-s6-slawno---slupsk-podpisana


----------



## Chris80678

ChrisZwolle said:


> The final contract for S6 between Szczecin and Gdańsk has been signed yesterday. A contract was awarded to Chinese construction company Stecol to build the last remaining segment of S6 between Sławno and Słupsk (22.9 km).
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.gov.pl/web/infrastruktura/umowa-na-realizacje-s6-slawno---slupsk-podpisana


Excellent!

The four exits seem to be quite close together on that map.


----------



## 0tomek0

Chris80678 said:


> Excellent!
> 
> The four exits seem to be quite close together on that map.


It's just that map. There will be 5–6 kms between the exits.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The exit density is indeed pretty high there.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

S6 near Gdynia.

Plastic barriers filled with concrete? I haven't see this before.


----------



## keber

This is a bad solution safety wise. First accident will chip off plastic parts (even if completely filled with strong concrete). How to replace that later?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

keber said:


> First accident will chip off plastic parts


Romania has implemented the 'roller barrier', I wonder how much they will disintegrate upon impact. It seems like an expensive solution if it needs replacement after each crash, and maybe complicating cleanup as well.


----------



## anubis1234

keber said:


> This is a bad solution safety wise. First accident will chip off plastic parts (even if completely filled with strong concrete). How to replace that later?


It will definitely happen, it's not like they have tested such a patent before, no engineer has studied this issue, it is the first time it will be tested, now we will see in practice if this is a good or a bad solution.


----------



## keber

If it is plastic crash barrier, it can't be a good solution because it would be already implemented elsewhere.


----------



## geogregor

ChrisZwolle said:


> S6 near Gdynia.
> 
> Plastic barriers filled with concrete? I haven't see this before.


Interesting, never heard about such system.

I guess it might work fine, especially once the middle is filled with soil. 



keber said:


> This is a bad solution safety wise. First accident will chip off plastic parts (even if completely filled with strong concrete). How to replace that later?


Why would plastic "chip off"? If it is soft plastic and when it is completely filled with concrete it will work like external membrane, or coat of paint, just a bit thicker. It might actually stop concrete from chipping off, which might happen on pure concrete barrier.


----------



## Nowax

*[S3] Bolków - Lubawka (CZ)







































































*

Photos posted by: szrajbendorf


----------



## Chris80678

Looks like S3 Bolków - Lubawka (CZ) is
going to be quite a scenic route.

The sixth photo has a gorgeous view of the Stołowe (Table) Mountains along the Polish / Czech border.


----------



## sponge_bob

Should roll you off rather than mangle the car at up to 90kph like concrete or steel would. the rollers are at headlamp height where damage is expensive.

You could fill them with water instead of concrete for lower speeds. 


ChrisZwolle said:


> Romania has implemented the 'roller barrier'


----------



## rakcancer

...or with sand.


----------



## Chris80678

*S14 (Aleksandrów Łódzki - Emilia (A2)). *
This final section of it is under construction.

All photos posted by @motrs in the Polish forum.

An animal overpass near the village of Lućmierz (Zgierz area):










Parczewska Street overpass in the foreground. Just behind it is the bridge carrying the Łódź Widzew - Kutno railway over S14:










A view of S14 from the DK71 overpass at Zgierz Zachód exit:










S14 south of Zgierz Zachód exit:










WD23 - Sokołowska Street overpass (south of Zgierz Zachód exit):










WD23:










Kąkolowej Street passing beneath S14 (south of Zgierz Zachód exit):










The S14 south of Zgierz Zachód exit:



















The town of Zgierz in the distance:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What are the experiences with Chinese construction company Stecol on S14? I believe it is their first contract and they got a few more projects awarded.


----------



## Patrako

ChrisZwolle said:


> What are the experiences with Chinese construction company Stecol on S14?


Excellent.
They are doing their job pretty well.
The first big test, which was the railway bridge over s14 opened according to schedule, they opened many of the road bridges over s14 too

They asked GDDKIA to move the opening few months, but i'm not even suprised. The project of the road was changed during the works (the redisgn of Emilia JCT).


----------



## Chris80678

Patrako said:


> Excellent.
> They are doing their jobs pretty well.
> The first big test, which was the railway bridge over s14 opened according to schedule, they opened many of the road bridges over s14 too
> 
> They asked GDDKIA to move the opening few months, but i'm not even suprised. The project of the road was changed during the works (the redisgn of Emilia JCT).


Emilia exit is going to be such an abysmal mess and clogged with traffic from the minute the second part of S14 opens.

The roundabout solution is what is going to let the project down.

If the S14 continues to DK91 at Słowik then that may solve some of the problem.


----------



## Patrako

That kinda a funny story

This design was first announced by the deputy prime minister Gliński, whose also a minister .... of culture
The right man for the job


----------



## Chris80678

A night time drone's eye view of Gdynia Wielki Kack interchange:






Major tailback on Gdynia-bound slip road off S6.






Video posted by @RAV69 in the Polish forum.

The opening of S6 Strzebielino - Gdynia has been delayed by another year due to winter.

It won't open this month (November 2022).

A snowy view of Bożepole Wielkie exit:


----------



## Chris80678

*The contractor is carrying out finishing works on S17 Warsaw Lubelska - Zakręt.

*Acceptances are in progress.

*In the first stage, drivers will use the main route S17 and the roundabout on DK92 in Zakręt.

*In the second and final stage, access to the target cross-section of the expressway and the U-turn at the end of the S17 (it will be possible to take the slip road towards Warsaw at the end of the completed section of the S17) will be made available.

*We hope this will happen this fall.

Source article (in Polish):



https://www.gov.pl/web/gddkia-warszawa/zmienimy-organizacje-ruchu-na-wezlach-lubelska-i-opacz


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A contract has been signed for the construction of the second carriageway of S19 between Sokołów Małopolski and Jasionka in southeastern Poland, close to Rzeszów.

The contract value is 272 million zł, it was awarded to Strabag and is scheduled to be completed in Q4 2026. It is 13.6 kilometers long.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1594662753125400585


----------



## Kemo

It will complete the motorway connection Rzeszów - Lublin - Warsaw.


----------



## The Wild Boy

When is the gap between Lublin and Bialystok expected to be closed?

I assume Rzesow - Krosno - Slovakian Border will be finished earlier than Lublin and Bialystok route...

I'm afraid that there's going to be a Polish - Czech border crossing scenario, where Poland would have a motorway leading to the Slovak Border that will just sit there unused for years... unless the Slovaks somehow connect a new road to where the motorway from the Polish side would end.










On their side i can see that they have a "half profile motorway" road (R4) which they could just extend to wherever S19 would end on the Polish side.


----------



## Lombat

The Wild Boy said:


> When is the gap between Lublin and Bialystok expected to be closed?


Maybe never.
2 weeks ago the environmental decision on S19 section from Białystok West (S8/S19 interchange) to Ploski fell down in the Supreme Administrative Court (NSA).
The contracts will most likely be terminated. For now, GDDKiA is waiting for the justification of the judgment from the NSA.

We can now bet what will happen later: the S17 eastern bypass of Warsaw, or the S19 from Białystok to Lubartów.
















S19 na Podlasiu bez decyzji środowiskowej. Jest wyrok NSA


Naczelny Sąd Administracyjny zdecydował w sprawie decyzji środowiskowej dla drogi ekspresowej S19 Białystok – Ploski. Wyrok oznacza, że trzy odcinki drogi nie mają decyzji środowiskowej.




www.rynekinfrastruktury.pl












Co dalej z S19 koło Białegostoku? GDDKiA: Wystąpimy o nową decyzję środowiskową


Wyrok NSA zablokował realizację drogi ekspresowej S19 między Białymstokiem a Ploskami. Kluczowy dokument dla tej inwestycji został unieważniony. To oznacza wstrzymanie dalszych prac na czterech odcinkach realizacyjnych. Ich łączna wartość wynosi ok. 1,5 mld zł.




www.rynekinfrastruktury.pl





The midsection from A2 to Siemiatycze is still without the environmental decision.
Nobody cares, there are more important roads to build first.


----------



## Chris80678

I can't see S17 Warsaw Eastern Bypass getting built before S19 Białystok - Lubartów 

Everyone is used to delay after delay caused by environmental appeals on 
S17 Warsaw Eastern Bypass. All faith 
has been lost in it ever being completed.


----------



## Wolfiq

ChrisZwolle said:


> The first tunnel breakthrough of S1 in Southern Poland was achieved today. This is on the Przybędza - Milówka segment.
> 
> This is the only expressway still built as mainly a single carriageway as far as I know. Traffic volumes south of Żywiec are really low, only 1,900 vehicles per day at the border.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595016467715657728


The prognosis for Węgierska Górka baypass in 2030 is 17k vehicles a day and about 20%-25% of that is hauling traffic.

I hope by then the traffic from opposite directions will be physically separated. There were many fatal head on collisions on S1 from Pyrzowice to Podwarpie when it used to be singled carriageway expressway, because people thought it's still 2x2 road.


----------



## Chris80678

Some good photos of S17 Warszawa Lubelska - Warszawa Wschód on this page (post #9,850):









[S17] Wschodnia Obwodnica Warszawy


A co tam było?




www.skyscrapercity.com


----------



## sponge_bob

If cash is short because Poland bought 500 HIMARS ...as was rumoured...then they might toss between your S16 and the Warsaw outer S100 ring road. Lack of money forces choices on people and the surge in planned military spending in Poland during 2022 would pay for a jolly decent Expressway network once it is all added up. 


Kemo said:


> Nope, nope.
> S16 west of Ełk should be a proper motorway in order to relieve Warsaw from the transit traffic between LT and central Europe.


----------



## Mkbewe

sponge_bob said:


> If cash is short because Poland bought 500 HIMARS ...as was rumoured...then they might toss between your S16 and the Warsaw outer S100 ring road. Lack of money forces choices on people and the surge in planned military spending in Poland during 2022 would pay for a jolly decent Expressway network once it is all added up.


This one was a joke from the beginning, unfortunately we will have to spend more on armaments and everything else will suffer for decades.


----------



## metacatfry

Kemo said:


> Nope, nope.
> S16 west of Ełk should be a proper motorway in order to relieve Warsaw from the transit traffic between LT and central Europe.
> Furthermore, this region has really bad road infrastructure (narrow, winding roads) and it deserves one proper highway to communicate the west with the east. And to make it more accessible for tourists.
> The distance from Ełk to Olsztyn is ~150 km but it can take 3 hours to drive.
> 
> And on top of that we should remember that half-profile expressways tend to be "roads of death" in Poland.





http://imgur.com/a/yHzwudT










Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




goo.gl





This is on the DK16, between Mragowo and Elk. I actually had halfway plans to drive here next year but I won't be able to get my truck through there . does it still look like this? I thought nowadays all DK roads were truck ready, but evidently not. It isn't even an active railway for heavens sake... Oh well via Warsaw roads it is then.


----------



## Eulanthe

ChrisZwolle said:


> Poland is already becoming somewhat of a powerhouse economically. Politico ran a story how Poland is becoming a military superpower. It's not 'just one of those many Eastern Block countries' anymore.


I would be very careful before making such statements. For instance, much of the economy in cities is based around multinationals basing their shared service centres here, but they can easily vanish overnight too. Our education system is crumbling too, as local governments are starved of cash. Even with the military, the claims made by the government and reality are two different things. 

To bring it back to roads: many suburban municipalities are facing the problem that many new houses have been built, but without roads. I've been talking to our mayor a few weeks ago, and he said that there's enough money in the budget to build around 1.5km of roads yearly.

There's also a substantial amount of debt being hidden 'off the books' in a state owned bank. 



Kemo said:


> S16 west of Ełk should be a proper motorway in order to relieve Warsaw from the transit traffic between LT and central Europe.


It should be S16 for the entire length. It might be difficult in some areas, but it would take a tremendous amount of traffic off the A2. 

At the same time, it's hard to justify when the A4 from Kraków to the A18 junction is so overcrowded and desperately in need of a new route.


----------



## sponge_bob

Actually I worked out that Poland has spent around HALF of the price of its remaining expressway network _just on South Korean armaments_ since early summer. Around $10bn of material has been contracted out to the South Koreans in recent months.

That much money would build around 1000km of the remaining 2000km that is not yet contracted. Poland now has 6200km done or underway out of a planned network total of around 8200km and only 2000km remains today as 'not yet tendered' . It has been a remarkable project over many years since the late 2000s. 

At the run rate of recent years of c.300km a year it could all have been tendered out by 2029 before the recent troubles started in the neighbourhood. But that rate will slow dramatically from now on and could be as low as 100km a year of new tenders before long. It's a shame but there we are.


----------



## Kemo

metacatfry said:


> This is on the DK16, between Mragowo and Elk. I actually had halfway plans to drive here next year but I won't be able to get my truck through there . does it still look like this? I thought nowadays all DK roads were truck ready, but evidently not. It isn't even an active railway for heavens sake... Oh well via Warsaw roads it is then.


Yes, nothing has changed.
A lot of traffic bypasses this section from the south (DK58) or from the north (Giżycko).
In fact, the entire DK16 can be bypassed using the "northern" route via mostly freshly modernised provincial roads. For example: Graphhopper Maps


----------



## Chris80678

There are rumours on the Polish forum that Section B of S7 Warsaw - Grójec will be put into operation on 20th December 2022.

There are claims that there will be two lanes in each direction whilst works continue on acoustic fencing, earthworks etc. Due to this there will be a reduced speed limit in place.

Antoninów exit will remain closed until next year as not all roundabouts on the slip roads are completely finished.

Złotokłos and Tarczyn Północ exits will be fully open.

I can find no official confirmation to verify this rumour as true.

All I get is mockery in the Polish forum for requesting simple clarification in Polish.


----------



## Cookiefabric

metacatfry said:


> http://imgur.com/a/yHzwudT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google Maps
> 
> 
> Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goo.gl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is on the DK16, between Mragowo and Elk. I actually had halfway plans to drive here next year but I won't be able to get my truck through there . does it still look like this? I thought nowadays all DK roads were truck ready, but evidently not. It isn't even an active railway for heavens sake... Oh well via Warsaw roads it is then.


I guess this is near Mragowo ?

If so then know that improvement is on it's way (The S16 is being built there, but it will still require 1 year of waiting).


----------



## metacatfry

unfortunately no. This is in the gap between Mragowo and Elk, where no parts of the S16 are being built or even in planning afaik. There are at least three such bridges on that stretch that restrict trucks of standard 390 cm height. The alternative route is a 25 km longer bypass, or skip the DK16 entirely. A shame because as you say, from next year there will be excellent roads approaching this stretch both from East and West... and then a gap of 50 km that looks like the picture above.

I really thought by now national level DK roads would have a consistent standard, but as this example shows, not all of Poland is equally serviced. To me as a HGV driver, a divided highway is nice, but just as important is that the road network has a certain level of consistency, with mostly the same rules and the same conditions as long as I am on national roads, so I don't have to spend a lot of time researching and planning my routing.

"Droga Krajowa
the highest category of public roads, enabling smooth domestic and international road transport between large cities and public border crossings, recommended especially for long-distance and transit traffic."


http://imgur.com/NMVgHSH


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ChrisZwolle said:


> The first tunnel breakthrough of S1 in Southern Poland was achieved today. This is on the Przybędza - Milówka segment.


Correction, this was actually the second tube breakthrough. The first broke through on 28 October.



https://www.gov.pl/web/infrastruktura/pierwszy-tunel-na-s1-w-beskidzie-slaskim-wydrazony


----------



## Cookiefabric

metacatfry said:


> unfortunately no. This is in the gap between Mragowo and Elk, where no parts of the S16 are being built or even in planning afaik. There are at least three such bridges on that stretch that restrict trucks of standard 390 cm height. The alternative route is a 25 km longer bypass, or skip the DK16 entirely. A shame because as you say, from next year there will be excellent roads approaching this stretch both from East and West... and then a gap of 50 km that looks like the picture above.
> 
> I really thought by now national level DK roads would have a consistent standard, but as this example shows, not all of Poland is equally serviced. To me as a HGV driver, a divided highway is nice, but just as important is that the road network has a certain level of consistency, with mostly the same rules and the same conditions as long as I am on national roads, so I don't have to spend a lot of time researching and planning my routing.
> 
> "Droga Krajowa
> the highest category of public roads, enabling smooth domestic and international road transport between large cities and public border crossings, recommended especially for long-distance and transit traffic."
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/NMVgHSH


Well, the DK16 roundabout (Elk) gives already the first hint that the road isn't very suitable for HGV's (Google Streetview: Google Maps )

In case you did miss some explanation:



Kirt93 said:


> White frame means the road admits 11.5 tonnes per axle, as the goal in EU is. White-black is 10 tonnes per axle limit, and there are also - much less common - DK roads with black frame, which is 8 tonnes.


----------



## Gabriel-21

sponge_bob said:


> the Warsaw outer S100 ring road.


So far it's going to be named the A50 (South of A2 section) and S50/S10 (North of A2 section):


----------



## Chris80678

Gabriel-21 said:


> So far it's going to be named the A50 (South of A2 section) and S50/S10 (North of A2 section):
> View attachment 4191576


A mere fantasy for years to come!


----------



## sponge_bob

Chris80678 said:


> A mere fantasy for years to come!


Long as that mega airport is alive then so is some of that Warsaw ring. If you kill the €6-7bn airport project west of Warsaw then you don't need a supporting road network, of which the ring road is an important component along with the A2.


----------



## The Wild Boy

Chris80678 said:


> A mere fantasy for years to come!


Yes, but a well needed project as it would free Warsaw from many traffic - problems.

The further away from Warsaw, the better.


----------



## Wolfiq

The Wild Boy said:


> Yes, but a well needed project as it would free Warsaw from many traffic - problems.
> 
> The further away from Warsaw, the better.


It won't solve any problems in Warsaw. Transit is just few percent of overall traffic there.


----------



## Cookiefabric

As shared a multiple times here, the biggest transit is Berlin - Poznan/Lodz - LT
The A50 and S50 don't serve that transit traffic very well (longer distance compared to what is in existing), therefore would the S5 and S16 projects a better reason to be built (which might take while, because it's a hot topic)


----------



## Tonik1

sponge_bob said:


> Actually I worked out that Poland has spent around HALF of the price of its remaining expressway network _just on South Korean armaments_ since early summer. Around $10bn of material has been contracted out to the South Koreans in recent months.
> 
> That much money would build around 1000km of the remaining 2000km that is not yet contracted. Poland now has 6200km done or underway out of a planned network total of around 8200km and only 2000km remains today as 'not yet tendered' . It has been a remarkable project over many years since the late 2000s.
> 
> At the run rate of recent years of c.300km a year it could all have been tendered out by 2029 before the recent troubles started in the neighbourhood. But that rate will slow dramatically from now on and could be as low as 100km a year of new tenders before long. It's a shame but there we are.


Poland has budget sueplus after 10 months of 2022










Poland's budget surplus at EUR 5.79 bln at end-October - FinMin


Poland recorded a PLN 27.2-billion (EUR 5.79-billion) state budget surplus after the first 10 months of 2022, the Finance Ministry has said.




www.thefirstnews.com


----------



## Chris80678

Cookiefabric said:


> As shared a multiple times here, the biggest transit is Berlin - Poznan/Lodz - LT
> The A50 and S50 don't serve that transit traffic very well (longer distance compared to what is in existing), therefore would the S5 and S16 projects a better reason to be built (which might take while, because it's a hot topic)


S5 has already been built and is more or less finished (unless you mean the planned section from Grudziądz to Ostróda?).

A2 may well need extra lanes between the German / Polish border and Poznań / Łódź.


----------



## Chris80678

Well, it happened! A historic moment at the A1 construction site!

The last section, between Piotrków Trybunalski and Kamieńsk, where the traffic was two-way, has disappeared!

From now on, you fully can drive A1 all the way from north to south and vice versa with two lanes available in each direction!

Source (in Polish):


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595807527618453505
A massive achievement for Poland 🇵🇱
as it now has four fully completed motorways in the country: A1, A4, A6 and A8.


----------



## toonczyk

Chris80678 said:


> as it now has three fully completed motorways in the country: A1, A4 and A8.


A1 is gonna be the fourth completed A road in Poland, because there's also A6. Next in line to be finished is A18, which should be completed by the end of next year. And then there's A2, which won't be completed until at least 2027, likely later (or maybe even never).


----------



## Patrako

toonczyk said:


> And then there's A2, which won't be completed until at least 2027, likely later


Just a reminder for everyone:
Aside from A2 to Belarusian border, there's also a part of A2 on the border with germany that will be rebuild


----------



## Chris80678

Is that at Świecko where the border checkpoints (still) are?

They haven't been demolished have they?

Last time I drove across the border at
Świecko was in pre-Schengen times and before Poland joined the EU.


----------



## Nowax

*[S1] Przybedza - Milowka section*













































































































Source:Budowa drogi ekspresowej S1 (dawniej S69)


----------



## Patrako

Chris80678 said:


> Is that at Swiecko where the border checkpoints (still) are?
> 
> They haven't been demolished have they?
> 
> Last time I drove across the border at Swiecko was pre-Schengen times and before Poland joined the EU.


They haven't, you still have to use a bypass









Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.com




I once found a full on map of how it is supposed to look, if i find it again, i will posted it here


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Chris80678 said:


> They haven't been demolished have they?


It looked like this in June:


A2 Świecko - Poznań 01 by European Roads, on Flickr


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nowax said:


> Source:Budowa drogi ekspresowej S1 (dawniej S69)


I drove through here, that arch bridge is pretty neat. 

This section of S1 will save a lot of time compared to the old route through towns.

As mentioned upthread, this may shift a lot of transit traffic from Cieszyn to the Laliki border point.


----------



## Patrako

Patrako said:


> I once found a full on map of how it is supposed to look, if i find it again, i will posted it here


Found it


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## Cookiefabric

If I remember correctly, Kirt OR Kemo did mention that this small section has been scheduled for 2028-2032 (with the same thoughts & plan in mind as the DK18/A18). If opened in 2004, then 25 to 30 years does make sense in this case (life spawn of the pavement)


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## Chris80678

Patrako said:


> Found it
> View attachment 4197788


When is this supposed to get built then?


----------



## Patrako

I have no idea.
I know GDDKiA has estimated the cost at 43 mln zlotys


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## kostas97

So A1 is currently completed at its entirety?


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## Patrako

Not exactly

The Częstochowa bypass still has some works ongoing. Mainly one bridge is being fixed, and 3rd lane is being added.
Aside from that sections South of Pyrzowice need to be completly rebuild


----------



## ChrisZwolle

This tweet refers to 196 ecoducts / wildlife crossings (viaduct) in Poland:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1596024820055277569


----------



## Kemo

kostas97 said:


> So A1 is currently completed at its entirety?


The section Piotrków Trybunalski - Kamieńsk is not completed. It will take a ~month to make it 2x3 and probably another half a year to make it 140 km/h.


----------



## kostas97

According to OSM only the southbound section is completed.....i don't know if that is the case though


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## Patrako

Southbound is the only available as 2x3

Northbound still has to cleaned up. They have to remove temporary signage and the barrier that was dividing the northbound traffic from the southbound


----------



## Chris80678

So is this Twitter post completely false and inaccurate?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1595807527618453505
If so, apologies for confusing everyone.


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## ChrisZwolle

I believe it says that traffic was shifted from a 4+0 construction zone configuration to their definitive roadways (i.e. split carriageways). However it doesn't mean that all construction zones are immediately cleared up. If I understand correctly, southbound traffic was shifted to the new 3 lane carriageway, while northbound traffic still uses 2 narrow lanes until that is all removed.


----------



## Patrako

Exactly


----------



## Chris80678

To clarify A1 Piotrków Trybunalski - Kamieńsk:

Those going south on A1 may travel at a speed of 100 km/h, while on the carriageway towards Łódź and Gdańsk, which has previously been used in both directions, it is now possible to drive at 70 km/h. The contractor must remove the so-called separators and apply the target horizontal marking.

According to GDDKiA, taking into account the weather conditions, it will take about a month. Then, until the investment is completed, the limit will be increased to 100 km/h.

Acoustic screens, fences, as well as finishing service roads and completing the construction of the Motorway Maintenance District in Kamieńsk are to be completed. Completion is expected in spring 2023


----------



## Eulanthe

Tonik1 said:


> Poland has budget sueplus after 10 months of 2022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poland's budget surplus at EUR 5.79 bln at end-October - FinMin
> 
> 
> Poland recorded a PLN 27.2-billion (EUR 5.79-billion) state budget surplus after the first 10 months of 2022, the Finance Ministry has said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thefirstnews.com


And if you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell to you.

The current government is loading an extraordinary amount of debt into off-budget entities. The budget itself may be in surplus, but it is absolutely meaningless in the context of public finances as a whole. Local governments are in crisis economically too, because the tax 'reform' has taken substantial amounts of money from them.

The end result is that there's not likely to be much money for road building in the coming years. I fully expect all motorways to be tolled between 2023-2027 if they can get a more reasonable solution in place for tolling.

I also suspect that some expressways will be resigned as motorway in order to toll them too, particularly the S8 Wrocław-Warsaw.


----------



## Luki_SL

Motorway S3, Lubawka - Kamienna Góra :


----------



## Chris80678

Some good photos of the new alignment DK47 Rdzawka - Nowy Targ (under construction) are on this page:









[S7/DK47] Zakopianka


W końcu znalazłem trochę czasu i będą w weekend w domu rodzinnym postanowiłem wybrać się w końcu na Zakopiankę, żeby przejechać sie nowym tunelem. Jedzie sie naprawdę super i nowy tunel robi mega wrażenie szczególnie jak jedzie się od strony Zakopanego w kierunku Krakowa. Oczywiście nagrałem...




www.skyscrapercity.com


----------



## Daniel749

Daniel749 said:


> *S61 section Suwałki-Budzisko (PL/LT) − October 2022 4x*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S61 Suwałki-Budzisko 10-2022 4x.mp4
> 
> 
> MP4 File
> 
> 
> 
> 1drv.ms


*S61 section Suwałki-Budzisko (PL/LT) − November 2022 4x*








S61 Suwałki-Budzisko 11-2022 4x.mp4


MP4 File



1drv.ms


----------



## sponge_bob

Daniel749 said:


> *S61 section Suwałki-Budzisko (PL/LT) − November 2022 4x*


We are heading into a rather cold period covering most of northern europe from this week but it looks like all these guys have to do is line painting, so opening this year is still likely. Dunno about pouring concrete or laying asphalt in these temperatures though.


----------



## PovilD

Daniel749 said:


> *S61 section Suwałki-Budzisko (PL/LT) − November 2022 4x*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S61 Suwałki-Budzisko 11-2022 4x.mp4
> 
> 
> MP4 File
> 
> 
> 
> 1drv.ms


Drone's struggle to the North 
Good video btw, weird yet interesting winter snow/fog theme in the end near the border.
Yesterday indeed was fog/snow mix here in Lithuania.


----------



## geogregor

Drone video showing TBM for S19 passing through the streets of Warsaw:


----------



## sponge_bob

geogregor said:


> Drone video showing TBM


That is only the Cutter Head. She was named "Dulcinea" when she did the M30 in Madrid but she could be renamed "Marta" or something now.



https://xn--diseo-rta.vip/construccion-tunel-m-30-madrid-tuneladora-mas-grande-del-mundo/?amp



As you can see below, _some bits are missing_ in that video.  I think she is the second largest TBM in Europe, only the Variante di Valico machines were wider, by a netch.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

geogregor said:


> Drone video showing TBM for S19 passing through the streets of Warsaw:


This zigzag route this thing has taken is unbelievable. All because the Wisła is not a navigable river for the most part. They first shipped it via the Odra to southern Poland, apparently then back north to Warsaw and then back south to Rzeszów.


----------



## anubis1234

geogregor said:


> Drone video showing TBM for S19 passing through the streets of Warsaw:


3:53 they hit a sign, but it looks like it was a controlled hit  is this normal and allowed with this type of cargo transportation?


----------



## sponge_bob

Dulcinea has spent the last 10 years in a warehouse in Madrid waiting for a new project, now she is in Poland I hope they find a few more jobs for her between the current project on the S19 and the SK border...and then onwards into SK to build their R4.

Old machines can be reconditioned between drilling jobs and are as good as new after a recondition whereas ordering that big TBM new will cost you €50m+, maybe €70m nowadays. She and Mostostal might even be considered for that missing link of S7 south of Krakow now she has moved to Poland.

TBM math is simple, once you fire it up it will do ~4-500m a month going 24/7 and that will cost you €20=30m a month keeping the factory behind it going. It uses enough electricity for a rather big village for starters and the muck needs shifting and the concrete rings need feeding in.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

ChrisZwolle said:


> This zigzag route this thing has taken is unbelievable. All because the Wisła is not a navigable river for the most part. They first shipped it via the Odra to southern Poland, apparently then back north to Warsaw and then back south to Rzeszów.


Map of the road transport of the cutter head.


----------



## geogregor

sponge_bob said:


> That is only the Cutter Head.


Thank you captain obvious 



ChrisZwolle said:


> Map of the road transport of the cutter head.


I have read somewhere that the main reason for such roundabout way were bridges on the A4 near Krakow.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The tunnel in Świnoujście is advancing. I doubt if it will open this year yet, usually testing such tunnels takes a couple of months after most of the works have been completed.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597609203782516736


----------



## Maciek_CK

geogregor said:


> I have read somewhere that the main reason for such roundabout way were bridges on the A4 near Krakow.


I read an interview with the person in charge of the transport. He mentioned that expertise were made concerning several dozen bridges while exploring a possibility of driving through Silesia. He said: “wherever there is a risk, because we are too close to the limit of endurance, we have to give up. (…) From the point of view of the load capacity of infrastructure elements, transport turned out to be feasible only with the use of the latest road sections”. I’ve seen Kraków being mentioned a couple of times, but I can’t find any source for that. The coordinator did say that some bridges were eliminated (as a viable option) because of age, simply because 50 ago bridge designers didn’t dream that it would be possible to transport loads weighing half a thousand tons.

They decided not to go through Ursynów Tunnel (S2 in Warsaw) as a precaution: in the event of a failure, it would not be possible to unload the load in a timely manner. The machine would have to stay there for a very long time and that would heavily disrupt traffic. This produced an opportunity for the capital’s residents to see the machine up close.

The whole operation, including planning & coordinating and producing elements specifically for this transport, took 18 months.


----------



## sponge_bob

ChrisZwolle said:


> The tunnel in Świnoujście is advancing.


Come to think of it that might have been the largest "Slurry" TBM ever used in Europe. They will likely need an even larger one if they ever complete the S6 under the Oder south of there but maybe they will cast that onshore, like the Fehmarn right now or many other older estuarine tunnels are built 

Before the tunnel in Świnoujście I don't think a slurry machine wider than 12m was ever used in Europe.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A major success for Poland on the EU transportation level, they managed to get all of Via Carpathia to become an extended core route in the TEN-T network. This is all of S19, as well as S16 from Ełk to Białystok.









Trans-European transport network: Council agreement paves way for greener, smarter and more resilient transport in Europe


The European Commission welcomes the agreement enabling the EU to push ahead with building a sustainable and smart trans-European transport network (TEN-T) that connects 430 major cities with ports, airports and railway terminals.




transport.ec.europa.eu





The previous amendment to TEN-T, agreed upon earlier in 2022, only included Via Carpathia south of Lublin. This means that Poland can now apply for EU funding for the Ełk - Białystok - Lublin route under the TEN-T scheme.

Previously, Białystok - Lublin had a lower priority as part of the comprehensive network, while Ełk - Białystok was not included at all.


----------



## Chris80678

Emilia exit on A2 (for DK91) re-opened today.









A2. Wrócił ruch na węźle Emilia


Drogowcy budowali rondo, które w przyszłości ma połączyć autostradę A2 z DK-91 z budowaną drogą ekspresową S14. Z tego powodu przez dwa miesiące kierowcy nie mogli korzystać w węzła Emilia. Teraz węzeł jest znów otwarty.




www.rynekinfrastruktury.pl







https://www.gov.pl/web/gddkia-lodz/wezel-emilia-znow-otwarty



*Road builders were building a roundabout, which in the future is to connect the A2 motorway with DK 91 and ultimately with the S14 expressway (under construction). For this reason, drivers could not use the Emilia junction for two months. Now the exit is open again.

*The roundabout built within the Emilia junction is part of the construction of a section of the S14 expressway between Aleksandrów Łódzki and Słowik junctions.

*Drivers coming from Poznań or Warsaw will be able to exit onto DK 91 both in the direction of Łódź and Łęczyca. The same will be true for those going in the opposite direction.

*At this stage, it will not be possible to make a U-turn on the roundabout, informs GDDKiA. It will be possible only after the construction of S14 is completed in spring 2023. At that time the roundabout will then become fully functional.

*Work on the S14 between Aleksandrów Łódzki and Słowik is more than 80% advanced.


----------



## Cookiefabric

Maciek_CK said:


> ^^ Nowhere in my previous message I have stated it was an official plan. Careful examination of the written word is advised.
> 
> 
> 
> A unification is much needed, in my opinion. Almost every expressway could easily be 'transformed' into a motorway because the differences in parameters are not that substantial and, as it was stated many times before, our present-day expressways have nothing to be ashamed of compared to the dated Western motorways in terms of safety or traveller-oriented features. Introducing toll is a different matter and on that subject I have been wondering lately: when have we accepted the fact that better roads (for which he have already paid for in most cases) require drivers to pay additional fee?
> 
> I was born (rather obviously) after the first toll road (motorway) was introduced so this is the only reality I’ve known. The question may expand to other areas, like healthcare or education, as well. And recently I was subjected to a dynamic pricing strategy while purchasing a parking ticket in mountains. This might be a new in Tatry but a system is well-known, among others, in hotel industry or aviation, has been for many years. I know that for example Singapore is widely using it in transportation system but can you imagine dynamic pricing in grocery stores or in pharmacies? Paying substantially more during holidays or flu season? I know I can’t but perhaps there already is a system out there that I’m not aware of. And perhaps it will be a new normal for a generation after us.


Maybe a tiny bit off-topic -- Did you watch the prices of veggies in a bigger supermarket (or supermarket chain) ?
Those are actually day prices (and that system is existing longer then 20 years).


----------



## anubis1234

Interesting video about idea of renaming expressways into motorways (english subtitles)


----------



## Gabriel-21

Andrzej Adamczyk, the minister of infrastructure said in the interview they are not planning such change. Public opinion isn't supportive either, because crappy tabloids and other media already managed to scare people that motorways = tolls, so I doubt we'll see the change anytime soon...


----------



## anubis1234

Gabriel-21 said:


> Andrzej Adamczyk, the minister of infrastructure said in the interview they are not planning such change. Public opinion isn't supportive either, because crappy tabloids and other media already managed to scare people that motorways = tolls, so I doubt we'll see the change anytime soon...


There are elections next year, for now they will certainly not officially talk about such plans.


----------



## Chris80678

Construction of Złotokłos exit on S7:






Posted by @RAV69 in the Polish forum.


----------



## PovilD

anubis1234 said:


> Interesting video about idea of renaming expressways into motorways (english subtitles)


I think letter S can remain for routes, but roads can easily be with motorway signs, like that Austrian example.
S8, S61, S5 just looks better than A8, A61, A5.

Btw, I know one section which is in Wyszkow bypass (S8 Bialystok-Warszawa) feels like a roller coaster rather than motorway, I'm not sure if this section can be motorway.


----------



## Kirt93

PovilD said:


> Btw, I know one section which is in Wyszkow bypass (S8 Bialystok-Warszawa) feels like a roller coaster rather than motorway, I'm not sure if this section can be motorway.


Motorways having some "rollercoaster" sections with lowered speed limits is nothing special. The one near Wyszków is nothing compared to e.g. this rollercoaster near Lucerne, Switzerland






which is a motorway.


----------



## PovilD

@Kirt93 
Wyszkow bypass is weird on otherwise very straight road that can be motorway for sure.
I understand the road is on mountainous or/and very urban area like your Swiss example.
I was looking from satelite photo, and I don't understand the reason (nature preservation area?) why the road curves like that?


----------



## Chris80678

Wonderful photos of Gdynia Wielki Kack interchange at night:


















Photos posted by @kuba-gda in the Polish forum.

A video of the construction of Gdynia Wielki Kack interchange:






Video posted by @RAV69 in the Polish forum.


----------



## SiemaHeniu

PovilD said:


> @Kirt93
> Wyszkow bypass is weird on otherwise very straight road that can be motorway for sure.
> I understand the road is on mountainous or/and very urban area like your Swiss example.
> I was looking from satelite photo, and I don't understand the reason (nature preservation area?) why the road curves like that?


I don't know the details, but this area is very swampy, so maybe that was the reason


----------



## dominobb

Natura 2000 "The Lover Bug Valley".
S8 was routed through the area that contained the least number of trees to be felled.


----------



## Chris80678

A video of S61 Ełk Południe - Wysokie (under construction):






Due to open in spring 2023.

Both videos posted by @RAV69 in the Polish forum.

A video of Tarczyn Północ exit (under construction) on S7:






Due to snow, the chances of S7 Lesznowola - Tarczyn Południe being passable to traffic before Christmas are slim.


----------



## Chris80678

In other news a new bridge over the River Warta in the village of Rogalinek (17km south of Poznań and 4km east of Mosina) opened on Friday 9th December 2022. The bridge carries DW431.

Source (in Polish):









Wielkopolska. Most w Rogalinku oficjalnie otwarty


Z ograniczeniami nowym mostem przez Wartę można było przejechać na drugi brzeg już w lipcu. Teraz inwestycja została oficjalnie ukończona. Nowy obiekt powstał w ciągu drogi nr 431. Inwestorem jest samorząd województwa wielkopolskiego.




www.rynekinfrastruktury.pl


----------



## Cookiefabric

Seeing the snow already before winterbreak, might mean that those projects will be delayed even a bit further. I wouldn't be suprised if the 2 sections of the S61 don't open in April but 1 - 2 months later.


----------



## Chris80678

Cookiefabric said:


> Seeing the snow already before winterbreak, might mean that those projects will be delayed even a bit further. I wouldn't be suprised if the 2 sections of the S61 don't open in April but 1 - 2 months later.


So be it. Harsh winter weather can't be helped.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Chris80678 said:


> Wonderful photos of Gdynia Wielki Kack interchange at night:


GDDKiA says that the remainder of S6 to the Wielki Kack interchange will open before Christmas: https://www.gov.pl/web/gddkia-gdansk/trasa-kaszubska-w-ciagu-s6-juz-wkrotce-prace-na-ukonczeniu

They also say that some signs on service areas will be in Kashubian.


----------



## Chris80678

ChrisZwolle said:


> GDDKiA says that the remainder of S6 to the Wielki Kack interchange will open before Christmas: https://www.gov.pl/web/gddkia-gdansk/trasa-kaszubska-w-ciagu-s6-juz-wkrotce-prace-na-ukonczeniu
> 
> They also say that some signs on service areas will be in Kashubian.


I'll believe that when I see it 😆

There are no specific dates given.

Rumours about its opening are being bandied about everywhere on the Polish forum!


----------



## Daniel749

*The government accepted the new "National Road Construction Program until 2030" *

Translation of the official press release:

*Over PLN 290 billion for new roads under the National Road Construction Programme*
Every year we build new roads in Poland that increase the safety and comfort of living and travelling. A responsible policy consists in taking care of the constant development of the entire country. In recent years, we have built a total of over 2,000 km of new expressways, motorways and bypasses. We care not only about connections to large cities - that's why we also care about the construction and improvement of the quality of numerous municipal and district roads. From the beginning of our government, the development of road infrastructure throughout Poland has been one of our priorities. Today, the Council of Ministers has adopted another solution - the Government Program for the Construction of National Roads with a perspective until 2033. This means that approximately 2,500 km of further sections of motorways and expressways will be built in our country.

*8,000 km of modern roads*
National roads connect the most important urban centers in the country and provide easy access to local roads. Investments that ensure a fast, safe and comfortable journey are the basis for further development. The Government Program for the Construction of National Roads, adopted by the Council of Ministers in December 2022, covers the construction of approx. 2,500 km of new roads - motorways and expressways. By 2033, we will spend over PLN 290 billion on the Programme. Ultimately, a network of over 8,000 km of modern roads will be built, which will be used by subsequent generations of Poles.
– This is the largest national program for the construction of expressways and motorways in the history of Poland. This is over PLN 294 billion, which is guaranteed in our budget, stressed Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki. The program will also strengthen mechanisms of economic growth and creation of new jobs. It is a very strong economic and pro-social impulse for all Poles.
As part of the construction of the most important road arteries, we envisage e.g. sections such as:

expressway S5 on section Sobótka (S8) - Świdnica - Bolków (S3),
expressway S6 Western road bypass of Szczecin,
expressway S8 on section Boboszów (Greek country) - Kłodzko - Wrocław (Magnice),
expressway S16 on section S61 (Ełk) – S19 (Białystok),
bypass of the Warsaw agglomeration along the A50 motorway and the S50 expressway,
expressway S12 on section S74 (Kozenin) – S8 (Łódź South).
We connect every corner of Poland - this is the key to sustainable development
We carry out new investments under one slogan - sustainable development. Development that gives an opportunity for better jobs and faster economic growth – also in rural areas, in smaller poviat cities or in voivodeship cities. This is the infrastructure backbone we are building and it is working well.
The National Roads Development Program is just one of the many programs we implement. We also support the development of local roads. They are created, for example, as part of the Government Local Investment Fund or the Government Program of Strategic Investments. As a result, the benefits of all investments in infrastructure policy are felt by everyone – regardless of where exactly they live.

Original in Polish: https://www.gov.pl/web/premier/pona...drogi-w-ramach-programu-budowy-drog-krajowych
----------------------------------------------------------

*The government also approved the resolution on the construction of S8 Białystok-Raczki (as part of Via Carpatia)*

Due to the importance of the "Białystok-Augustów-Suwałki-state border" corridor in local, regional, national and international traffic, the Council of Ministers recognised the construction of the S8 Białystok-Suwałki expressway as justified. The investment will improve road safety and increase the quality of transport services in terms of the transport of passengers and goods.

The construction of the S8 Białystok-Suwałki expressway will implement one of the government's priorities, which is to complete the road network ensuring connections based on motorways and expressways between the largest centers in the country, in particular cross-border connections.
The investment will contribute to improving road safety and increasing the quality of transport services in the transport of goods and passengers. It will also have a positive impact on the socio-economic situation of the country and the region, both on a macro and micro scale. Improving the capacity of the existing road will also improve competitive conditions due to the possibility of faster transport of manufactured goods. In addition, the construction of the new expressway will contribute to the creation of jobs, increased trade, geographical accessibility and mobility of citizens.

Original in Polish: https://www.gov.pl/web/premier/uchw...alki-przedlozona-przez-prezesa-rady-ministrow


----------



## Cookiefabric

@Daniel749 Thanks for the translation.
The announcement itself gives me only more questions then answers, such as:

-> The current DK8 ( Białystok-Suwałki) is currently in a state of getting several towns bypassed and upgraded to 2+1 Klassy GP. What will happen to that project?
-> The improved 2x1 DK8 between Augustow and Rackzi caused serious trouble for the gov (ending up with cancelling and destroying some pieces) -- What is the project going to look like this time? Dualling that Klassy GP DK8 toward the S61?

Also, there is no news about the S11 and S10 in Mid-Poland (Pila). Are those 2 expressways still topic of a political debate/trade off?


----------



## Patrako

Cookiefabric said:


> Also, there is no news about the S11 and S10 in Mid-Poland (Pila). Are those 2 expressways still topic of a political debate/trade off?


All of S10 and S11 have at least studies ongoing, some are waiting for enviromental permits


----------



## sponge_bob

Daniel749 said:


> Translation of the official press release:
> 
> *Over PLN 290 billion for new roads under the National Road Construction Programme*


A *€6bn a year *roads programme out to 2033 then.


----------



## random_user_name

Is there a map of funded sections?


----------



## Kirt93

^^ This is the map of funded sections from the draft of the bill. We will know in a few days if the final version is unchanged.


----------



## geogregor

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1602685176877907969


----------



## metacatfry

sponge_bob said:


> A *€6bn a year *roads programme out to 2033 then.





Kirt93 said:


> ^^ This is the map of funded sections from the draft of the bill. We will know in a few days if the final version is unchanged.


Very nice. The press release says 2500 km. But isn't 6 billion € /year quite a lot for that? at costs around 5-10 million € /km, potentially 600-1200 km /year. Does that figure include maintenance?


----------



## Kirt93

^^ It includes ongoing projects - the plan covers the expenses on construction of new roads from all budget years 2021 - 2033. So basically part of the old PBDK got incorporated into new one (to make the cost look more impressive). You can observe that e.g. S19 Lublin - Rzeszów is marked on the map, which it got opened in 2021 & 2022. The press release seems inconsistent: they reported cost including such roads and the length excluding them.

The widening of roads to 2x3 is also included. The cost of constructing really new roads not from old PBDK is (in the draft) 147 bln.


----------



## 0tomek0

metacatfry said:


> Very nice. The press release says 2500 km. But isn't 6 billion € /year quite a lot for that? at costs around 5-10 million € /km, potentially 600-1200 km /year. Does that figure include maintenance?


No maintenance.
2500 kms of new roads only.
This number does not concern upgrade of the A4 and shorter sections of A1 and A2 to 2×3 and some other upgrades of the national roads to 2×2 (but when you add these sections, you get at least 1000 kms).

And since


Kirt93 said:


> The cost of constructing really new roads is (in the draft) 147 bln.


which is about 32,5 bln EUR (depending on the exchange rate), the cost per 1 km is about 13 mln EUR. Unfortunately, the prices are rising and several sections of the new roads won't be cheap to build due to tunnels, valleys or swampy soil. The majority of the easiest (and thus the cheapest) sections has been already done.


----------



## sponge_bob

Kirt93 said:


> The widening of roads to 2x3 is also included. The cost of constructing really new roads not from old PBDK is (in the draft) 147 bln.


Ah, so it is c.€3bn a year for ~10 years to build the 'missing' ~2500km required to finish the network, or €30bn and another c.€3bn a year for operations and some upgrades ...widenings .. to the existing network.

There are some expensive per km schemes in the missing 2500km like the S7 in NW Warsaw which will require tunnels, the more rural overground S roads will be nearer the €5m a km mark.

2033 is a long way away so we will have to hope the budget holds up until then, if there are cuts they will not fall on the operations budget but on the new build budget.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

0tomek0 said:


> which is about 32,5 bln EUR (depending on the exchange rate), the cost per 1 km is about 13 mln EUR.


A couple of weeks/months ago there was a discussion in this thread how motorways for € 7 mln/km were now a thing of the past and almost every project is now north of € 10 mln/km. And this wasn't due to mountainous terrain, but S12 near Chełm as an example.


----------



## metacatfry

Inflation is on the way down now I think. Maybe prices will stabilize around € 10-15 mln/km in the next decade.


----------



## MichiH

Daniel749 said:


> *The government accepted the new "National Road Construction Program until 2030" *
> As part of the construction of the most important road arteries, we envisage e.g. sections such as:
> 
> expressway S16 on section S61 (Ełk) – S19 (Białystok),
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> *The government also approved the resolution on the construction of S8 Białystok-Raczki (as part of Via Carpatia)*
> The construction of the S8 Białystok-Suwałki expressway will implement one of the government's priorities


They want to build S16 Elk-Białystok AND S8 Białystok-Suwałki? Two expressways very close to each other starting at S19? Or will there be a Y alignment, S8 splitting off from S16 anywhere north of Białystok? Where is my mistake?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

My guess is this is the same plan? Ełk - Białystok was recently adopted into TEN-T.


----------



## MichiH

^^ Ełk and Raczki are more than 30km apart and one press release calls it S16, the other one S8.


----------



## dominobb

Plans for new tenders (build or design&build) in 2023:


----------



## sponge_bob

Almost 400km of S roads, is there an election on. ?? 


dominobb said:


> Plans for new tenders (build or design&build) in 2023:


----------



## dominobb

sponge_bob said:


> Almost 400km of S roads, is there an election on. ??


About 460 km of S roads.
In 2022 Poland announced less tenders than in previous years, so planned ones were moved to 2023.

...And the parliamentary elections will be held in autumn 2023. 

---

In December 2022 also this tenders will be announced:
S roads:
57 km brand new
20 km second carriageway
6 km re-tender for brand new

DK roads:
2 km bypass









---

Plans on the map (based on the map by IgorSel):
tenders to be announced in 2022 - dark magenta
tenders to be announced in 2023 - brown


----------



## Chris80678

A provisional opening date of 21/12/2022 between 15h and 16h has been given by PolAqua for S6 Strzebielino - Gdynia.

It hasn't been officially confirmed by them so don't get too excited.

A video of the last works on Gdynia Wielki Kack and Dąbrowa interchanges on S6:






A video of S11 Olesno bypass (under construction):






Video posted by @NiNja1590 in the Polish forum.


----------



## Cookiefabric

From the S61 topic: Rumours from a local radio station/newspaper: S61 Suwalki <> Border LT/PL will be made available on 22nd or 23rd december (not a full opening).
Might be nice if true, although as I did note earlier: The snow is delaying stuff, therefore I won't be surprised if opening will be postponed until May/June 2023


----------



## Chris80678

Cookiefabric said:


> From the S61 topic: Rumours from a local radio station/newspaper: S61 Suwalki <> Border LT/PL will be made available on 22nd or 23rd december (not a full opening).
> Might be nice if true, although as I did note earlier: The snow is delaying stuff, therefore I won't be surprised if opening will be postponed until May/June 2023


I'm sceptical to be honest.

I guess made available means passable?


----------



## Cookiefabric

Chris80678 said:


> I'm sceptical to be honest.
> 
> I guess made available means passable?


Correct. I'm usually writing "available" when drivers could expect some kind of an obstacle course (lower speed limits, random zig zags, narrow lane(-s), bumping on uneven surfaces, etc)


----------



## Kemo

MichiH said:


> They want to build S16 Elk-Białystok AND S8 Białystok-Suwałki? Two expressways very close to each other starting at S19? Or will there be a Y alignment, S8 splitting off from S16 anywhere north of Białystok? Where is my mistake?


There is a lack of a good road connecting Białystok with Olsztyn and Gdańsk. This is why the idea of a motorway along DK65 (Ełk - Białystok) was conceived in the first place. Additionally, it could serve the long distance traffic on Via Carpathia.
The design works have started, 3 variants have been considered.





Przebieg Wariantów – S16 Ełk – Knyszyn







s16-elk-knyszyn.pl





But then, the local politicians started to put a heavy pressure on building a motorway along DK8 instead. A fourth variant has been added to the analysis - the one along DK8 (to Raczki).
From then it became obvious that the decision has already been made, and the whole technical-economic-environmental study will be manipulated to show that variant 4 is the best one. And indeed it was manipulated (e.g. for variant 4 they didn't count the length of "S19" which already has environmental permit, but would only be built if variant 4 is chosen), but surprisingly the Opining Commitee for Investment Projects saw through it and asked to correct the flaws in the study.
But as you can see, they still want to "push variant 4 with the knee" (that's how we say in Polish). Even if they manage to do so, the environmental permit for this 'S8" will have a high chance of being revoked by the administrative court. As it happened lately with S19 south of Białystok. Because for an environmental permit procedure, there must be several variants considered, and variants 1-3 of "S16" can't really be considered alternatives of variant 4 "S8".


----------



## Chris80678

The opening of Nowe Miasto Lubawskie bypass (DK15) is postponed to Wednesday 21st Dec 2022 at 10.00am. The formal opening ceremony and ribbon cutting will take place at the Kacze Bagno roundabout.

As a reminder - the newly built route has a length of about 18 km. In addition, the investment consists of 8 road viaducts, a 300 metre long bridge over the River Wel, 4 roundabouts, 4 animal crossings and bus bays. A landslide along the bypass did cause delay to the planned opening of it. .

DK15 will bypass Nowe Miasto Lubawskie to the east, which will lead transit traffic out of the town centre. This will improve traffic conditions both on DK15, in Nowe Miasto Lubawskie and Bratian itself, and indirectly also in the entire Warmian-Masurian Voivodeship.

Openstreetmap extract (yellow highlighting is my own to show the bypass):










Source (In Polish):

Nowe Miasto Lubawskie - Tygodnik Internetowy


----------



## MichiH

Kemo said:


> There is a lack of a good road connecting Białystok with Olsztyn and Gdańsk. This is why the idea of a motorway along DK65 (Ełk - Białystok) was conceived in the first place. Additionally, it could serve the long distance traffic on Via Carpathia.
> The design works have started, 3 variants have been considered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Przebieg Wariantów – S16 Ełk – Knyszyn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> s16-elk-knyszyn.pl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But then, the local politicians started to put a heavy pressure on building a motorway along DK8 instead. A fourth variant has been added to the analysis - the one along DK8 (to Raczki).
> From then it became obvious that the decision has already been made, and the whole technical-economic-environmental study will be manipulated to show that variant 4 is the best one. And indeed it was manipulated (e.g. for variant 4 they didn't count the length of "S19" which already has environmental permit, but would only be built if variant 4 is chosen), but surprisingly the Opining Commitee for Investment Projects saw through it and asked to correct the flaws in the study.
> But as you can see, they still want to "push variant 4 with the knee" (that's how we say in Polish). Even if they manage to do so, the environmental permit for this 'S8" will have a high chance of being revoked by the administrative court. As it happened lately with S19 south of Białystok. Because for an environmental permit procedure, there must be several variants considered, and variants 1-3 of "S16" can't really be considered alternatives of variant 4 "S8".


Thanks, got the story behind. However, is it about S16 OR S8, or S16 AND S8? Is there a chance that both routes will be built? Both completely in parallel from Białystok or a Y variant with a concurrency in the south and one branching off the other expressway anywhere along the route?


----------



## Chris80678

An aerial video of S17 Warszawa Wschód - Lubelska






Video posted by @Kielbus in the Polish forum.

Due to open sometime before the end of 2022

A closer look at the underpass tunnel beneath Warszawa Wschód interchange:






Video posted by @RAV69 in the Polish forum.


----------



## sponge_bob

MichiH said:


> Thanks, got the story behind. However, is it about S16 OR S8, or S16 AND S8?


What strikes me as odd is that everything S8/S16 has to cross the Biebrza river Valley which is protected. Building both roads means 2 crossings of the valley.

Could they not tunnel for 4-5km under the narrower part of the valley and avoid it that way on an S16 variant. That would seem the easiest way to me.


----------



## Lombat

sponge_bob said:


> Could they not tunnel for 4-5km under the narrower part of the valley


It's not reasonable to tunnel through the swamp. It is also harmful to the protected environment.
Both the roads have no potential of the road traffic growth big enough to construct them as 2x2 road.
2+1 would be full enough, alternatively 1x2 on the passing through the protected area.
And we have the environmental decision for this on DK8.


----------



## sponge_bob

Lombat said:


> It's not reasonable to tunnel through the swamp. It is also harmful to the protected environment.


I did not say "through" I said "*under*" which is why a tunnel _under a 1km-1.5km wide valley would have to be 5km long_. And it has to be a 2 tube tunnel as well. Around €0.5bn worth shall we say. €100m a km just for that section alone.


> 2+1 would be full enough, alternatively 1x2 on the passing through the protected area.
> And we have the environmental decision for this on DK8.


If neither an S16 or an S8 north of Bialystok and south of Suwalki are going to carry more than 8-9k AADT the sensible solution is do nothing at all. Putting anything new on the surface across the protected valley is a problem whether it is a widened road or a new road.


----------



## The Wild Boy

Isn't ground under swamplands usually very soft and not suitable for tunnel construction?


----------



## Lombat

sponge_bob said:


> the sensible solution is do nothing at all.


But there goes the Rail Baltica project, with the new road bridges over the railway inside the protected area near Osowiec.The same road (DK65 present number).


----------



## sponge_bob

Lombat said:


> But there goes the Rail Baltica project, with the new road bridges over the railway inside the protected area near Osowiec


And could that 1 big bridge not be adapted to carry both a 4 land road and high speed rail ??? This sort of structure is common globally.Does the S16 planning even admit that the raill bridge is planned anyway???


----------



## sponge_bob

The Wild Boy said:


> Isn't ground under swamplands usually very soft and not suitable for tunnel construction?


You just drilled through wet slop at the mouth of the Odra, but that machine, while big, is not suitable for drilling an S road profile which is much wider. I don't know the ground conditions under the protected valley in the NE but I suspect it is hard enough glacial till.


----------



## Lombat

sponge_bob said:


> Does the S16 planning even admit that the raill bridge is planned anyway???


XD, _niedasie_.
Its not about the bridge over the river, its about the road crossing the high speed railway (road viaduct over the railway, pardon my US Simple English).

On the early plans of S16 they showed the Rail Baltica design and pojected bridges.
They have crossed them and writren: "road viaduct designed by PKP, to be demolished".

This is our condition of transport planning on the state level: we are planning to demolish the bridges, that are yet to be constructed.


Here are the plans and my comment in PL, look for "do rozbiórki" = "to be demolished".


Lombat said:


> Niezłe jaja w Osowcu na tych planach.
> Całość przejścia przez twierdzę w murach oporowych.
> Na różowo plany PKP związane z Rail-Baltica.
> "Wiadukt drogowy projektowany przez MGGP do rozbiórki". Dostrzegłem 3x.
> 1. DW668 "częściowej rozbiórki"


----------


The Wild Boy said:


> Isn't ground under swamplands usually very soft and not suitable for tunnel construction?


I don't know, but think about the cost.
There is no traffic justification for sth like this.


----------



## The Wild Boy

Lombat said:


> we are planning to demolish the bridges, that are yet to be constructed.


They are going to demolish a rail bridge (part of rail baltica) that is yet to be built??? 
That's so stupid. 

Where's the coordination between GDDKiA and PKP?!?!?!


----------



## Lombat

The Wild Boy said:


> Where's the coordination between GDDKiA and PKP?!?!?!


Now you understood _niedasię_.


----------



## sponge_bob

That much is pretty stupid, a high speed rail alignment is a more massive structure than a 2+2 road, and straighter too. If Rail Baltica is crossing the river valley overground on a viaduct then the viaduct should be designed so that you can clip a 2+2 ....or a half profile version of it....onto the sides of the railway in future. 

Osowiec is just about the narrowest part of the protected valley whether you go over or under it at that location. You would spend a lot more money south of Augustow to avoid the more extensive wetlands there. 



Lombat said:


> On the early plans of S16 they showed the Rail Baltica design and pojected bridges.
> They have crossed them and writren: "road viaduct designed by PKP, to be demolished".


----------



## Lombat

sponge_bob said:


> If Rail Baltica is crossing the river valley overground on a viaduct then the viaduct should be designed so that you can clip a 2+2 ....or a half profile version of it....onto the sides of the railway in future.


Not like that, just look at the drawings pls.


Lombat said:


> Niezłe jaja w Osowcu na tych planach.


Yesterday i found a similar, but much higher stupidity.
S11 near Poznań and high speed rail from Łódź to Poznań. S11 is violet, HS Rail is Red.
Both projects have no Environmental decision.
But S11 was routed earlier, so _niedasie_.
And yes, i checked- no Environmental issues to justify this road routing, just the surrounding villages.











https://www.cpk.pl/pl/mapa-stes-sieradz-kalisz-pleszew-poznan-wariant-9


----------



## sponge_bob

Putting the road corridor into the rail corridor makes more sense, the rail corridor will always be very straight with a 200kph+ design which is ideal for a road, the road will always be twistier on its own as it is designed for a lower speed.


Lombat said:


> Not like that, just look at the drawings pls.


Yes it means that road and rail planners need to talk to each other where both forms of infrastructure are proposed in parallel.


----------



## Kemo

sponge_bob said:


> Yes it means that road and rail planners need to talk to each other where both forms of infrastructure are proposed in parallel.


----------



## Chris80678

A preview of S6 Chwaszczyno - Gdynia Wielki Kack before its opening on 21st December






Posted by @RAV69 in the Polish forum.

Final line marking on S6 at the bridge over the Bolszewska River east of Luzino exit:
*









Koleczkowo exit *

Roundabout at Koleczkowo exit (coming south from the village of Kielno):









Directional signage on S6 on eastbound slip road at Koleczkowo exit:









WD82 and overhead gantry signage at Koleczkowo exit:









MS81 on the S6 approaching Koleczkowo exit:


----------



## Proterra

sponge_bob said:


> I prefer Siskom


Me too, Siskom is by far the cleanest and best map out there. My only objection is that it's not updated as much as I'd like, but still orders of magnitude better than most of the (semi-)official stuff out there which may be similarly "clean".

Some of the other maps are indeed more information-dense, and more frequently updated, but those aren't nearly as clean as the Siskom map.


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## dominobb

Igor's map contains many details that give a better picture of the road construction process. I definitely prefer Igor's map.
If we want a "clean" map, we have to give up details. It's hard to compromise here. I put the substantive side above the visual one.


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## sponge_bob

If Igor would kindly do us an English version for this forum then I might change my mind. Until then.....


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## Proterra

dominobb said:


> Igor's map contains many details that give a better picture of the road construction process. I definitely prefer Igor's map.
> If we want a "clean" map, we have to give up details. It's hard to compromise here. I put the substantive side above the visual one.


I'm not disputing that. My take is that the Siskom map is one which could be printed in an atlas or used as an "official" road map by professional drivers, while Igor's map is mainly great for looking things up. Both maps have two totally different functions.


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## sponge_bob

One of the best information sources in English is the wiki article maintained mainly by @Kirt93 . 









Highways in Poland - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org


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## MichiH

geogregor said:


> Why reinvent the wheel? We have one perfectly good map:
> 
> 
> 
> http://ssc.siskom.waw.pl/





dominobb said:


> And another perfectly good map:
> 
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/xfqk186q4ghemuz/mapka-igorsel.png?dl=0


siskom is (almost) perfect to me. Igor's map provides more or less the same content but gives additional textual info in Polish I cannot read. Igor also indicates DK bypasses which is great! It's easy to distinguish A/S roads and DK roads on siskom but hard on Igor's map. siskom is good for viewing in a web browser, Igor's png is not - not with Firefox....Estimated opening dates are easier to be spot and read on siskom.

Just my 2ct. I highly appreciate the effort for creating and updating both maps! Great job!


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## dominobb

MichiH said:


> It's easy to distinguish A/S roads and DK roads on siskom


But it's harder to distinguish A and S roads, because there is no such distinction on siskom map.


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## MichiH

dominobb said:


> But it's harder to distinguish A and S roads, because there is no such distinction on siskom map.


I see no difference on this for both maps. Igor's double-lines are hard to catch. Look close to the solid lines. However, road numbers are generally easier to catch on siskom.
And A/S roads are technically the very same for me - international motorway standard. No need to distinguish.


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## dominobb

MichiH said:


> I see no difference on this for both maps. Igor's double-lines are hard to catch. Look close to the solid lines. However, road numbers are generally easier to catch on siskom.
> And A/S roads are technically the very same for me - international motorway standard. No need to distinguish.


A roads have white line inside, S roads - black line.
Double line means - road with 3 or more lanes.

S8 Piotrków - Warszawa isn't technically the same as e.g. A2 Łódź - Poznań.


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## geogregor

dominobb said:


> S8 Piotrków - Warszawa isn't technically the same as e.g. A2 Łódź - Poznań.


But then S19 have better standard than A4 west of Wroclaw. In fact most of the S-roads do...

A4 east of Wroclaw also have stretches worse than many latest S-roads.

That A/S distinction in Poland is total administrative nonsense.


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## Daniel749

Video of the tunnel in Świnoujście with English (and German) subtitles:






(PS: You're welcome to my YouTube channel, where you can find a lot of visualisations of motorway and expressway sections: https://www.youtube.com/@daniel_749)


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## dominobb

geogregor said:


> But then S19 have better standard than A4 west of Wroclaw. In fact most of the S-roads do...
> 
> A4 east of Wroclaw also have stretches worse than many latest S-roads.


A4 will be rebuilt in the coming years, so giving this example is misleading.


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## geogregor

dominobb said:


> A4 will be rebuilt in the coming years, so giving this example is misleading.


It is not misleading at all. I'm talking about current situation not some ideal future world.

And currently the division between motorways and "expressways" is a weird one. It is decided by legal status rather than technical specifications.

In my opinion system should be unified and simplified. Most of the modern S-roads are motorways by any civilized country standards. So they should be marked as such. If some stretches are substandard (like bits of S8 or S11) then we can leave them as S-roads.

That's of course my personal opinion, you are entitled to a different view.


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## ChrisZwolle

geogregor said:


> That's of course my personal opinion, you are entitled to a different view.


Czechia agrees. ;-)


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## SRC_100

Daniel749 said:


>


Interesting thing is that the tunnel leads from Świnoujście (Uznam Island) to roundabout in Wolin Island from which comes streets named Finnish str. (ul. Fińska), Danish str. (ul. Duńska) and Scandinavian str. (ul. Skandynawska) just wonder why is lack of Swedish str. (ul. Szwedzka)?



ChrisZwolle said:


> Czechia agrees. ;-)


also Austria and Slovakia do...


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## EnterName

SRC_100 said:


> Interesting thing is that the tunnel leads from Świnoujście (Uznam Island) to roundabout in Wolin Island from which comes streets named Finnish str. (ul. Fińska), Danish str. (ul. Duńska) and Scandinavian str. (ul. Skandynawska) just wonder why is lack of Swedish str. (ul. Szwedzka)?


There are both Swedish (Szwedzka) and Norwegian (Norweska) streets nearby. And also Czech, Hungarian and Belorussian, because why not.


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## anubis1234

EnterName said:


> There are both Swedish (Szwedzka) and Norwegian (Norweska) streets nearby. And also Czech, Hungarian and Belorussian, because why not.
> View attachment 4399860


but the most important is that there is also John Paul II Street


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## SRC_100

*Ełk Południe* (South) junction - *Wysokie *junction - the air view - Jan. 2023





*Ełk Południe* (South) junction - *Wysokie *junction - the ground view - Jan. 2023





*Łomża Zachód* (West) junction – *Kolno *junction - the air view - Jan. 2023


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## ChrisZwolle

Interesting, Berlin is already signed from near Gdańsk.


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## Luki_SL

^^Berlin (kms) is signed on each sign on S6 from Gdynia to Goleniów


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## Chris80678

I would say that signing Berlin from Frombork is somewhat excessive especially when Frombork isn't on the S6 route  (incidentally Berlin is 657.5km from Frombork via S5 and A2).

I see that the typo has been corrected now @Luki_SL


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## Maciek_CK

Some New Year's Eve aerial photos of S7 between Widoma and Kraków Nowa Huta interchanges (Kielce - Kraków expressway). We are going south with all the pictures facing north. I tried to provide locations for each photo. Source and more: Zdjęcia lotnicze grudzień 2022.

south of Widoma interchange
















OpenStreetMap


OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.




www.openstreetmap.org





















OpenStreetMap


OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.




www.openstreetmap.org





Łuczyce interchange
















OpenStreetMap


OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.




www.openstreetmap.org





















OpenStreetMap


OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.




www.openstreetmap.org





Raciborowice interchange
















OpenStreetMap


OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.




www.openstreetmap.org





Mistrzejowice interchange (the one getting redesigned)
















OpenStreetMap


OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.




www.openstreetmap.org





Grębałów interchange
















OpenStreetMap


OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.




www.openstreetmap.org





just before connecting to the existing Kraków Nowa Huta interchange
















OpenStreetMap


OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.




www.openstreetmap.org





Rumor has it that the section from Widoma to Raciborowice might get an opening this year (excluding heavy traffic due to local roads not being able to handle the volume). This plus the opening of the section Moczydło – Miechów scheduled for May 2023 may bring Kielce and Kraków a lot closer together. One does have to hope Miechów will not become a major bottleneck (the infamous Poradów passage is not due till the second half of 2024).


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## metacatfry

Maciek_CK said:


> Mistrzejowice interchange (the one getting redesigned)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OpenStreetMap
> 
> 
> OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.openstreetmap.org


I was wondering how they were going to cross the railway since it is already on a tall embankment. it looks like they are going over, so just super tall bridges? It's extra complicated because some of the interchange onramps also need to cross.


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## Eulanthe

ChrisZwolle said:


> Interesting, Berlin is already signed from near Gdańsk.


I'm glad to see it. It's frustrating how many Polish roads still only have signs to the border, rather than the logical destination in many cases. 

I understand it in the case of BY/RU/UA borders where the border crossing is a destination, and perhaps Świecko is an exception as many trucks clear their loads into the EU there, but elsewhere?

The only issue is that they're only usually signing one destination, even when it would make sense to sign two or more. For instance, on the S61 in Suwałki, Kaunas and Vilnius should be signed, not only Kaunas.


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## SRC_100

The one of the most eastern and the latest opened short section of S5 Ornowo-Wirwajdy in northern part o PL. I belive it`s _*Warmia *_region.






OpenStreetMap


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## Kemo

Nope, that's not Warmia. It's Mazury.


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## Kielbus




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## Chris80678

Distance signage on S7 at Tarczyn Południe exit:










Antoninów exit (looking north):










Antoninów exit (looking south):


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