# New Scottish Parliament



## Zaqattaq (Nov 17, 2004)

http://archrecord.construction.com/projects/portfolio/archives/0502scottishParlm.asp

I think it looks like a cow


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2005)

It is amazing inside and even the most sceptical opponents of the Parliment Building could not fail to be impressed by it's interior.


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## nukey (Apr 17, 2004)

Im going to Edinburgh just to see it. The photos alone take my breath away (especially the interiors) and I only have one hope for when I see it in the flesh, and that is that I dont have a heart attack on the spot. My unit is also going in a month to see his Igualada cemetery... looking forward to that too. SUCH a shame that he died.


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## nukey (Apr 17, 2004)




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## Accura4Matalan (Jan 7, 2004)

I'm not a fan of it. Especially when you consider how badly the costs escalated. The project should never have gone ahead.


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## nukey (Apr 17, 2004)

I think that we are going to avoid Barcelona itself and go around it to Igualada and a high-school that he designed. The idea is that we will go and see things that we can only see with a car, as we will be driving down from Toulouse, and if anyone wants to see more they can come back another time: Barcelona is easier to get to from London than Leeds these days.


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## Meditt (Nov 28, 2004)

nukey said:


> I think that we are going to avoid Barcelona itself and go around it to Igualada and a high-school that he designed. The idea is that we will go and see things that we can only see with a car, as we will be driving down from Toulouse, and if anyone wants to see more they can come back another time: Barcelona is easier to get to from London than Leeds these days.


yup, the school in Morella its one of his first projects (still with Carme Pinós)... never been there, but looks interesting.. you should post pics of your trip to Igualada and Morella in these forums... some good architecture is always welcomed..

Morella walls and castle look impressing at night...










and that's the school (below):


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## blue_warsaw (Jul 15, 2004)

looks...
strange?


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## FerrariEnzo (Dec 19, 2003)

Very cool.


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

It's fugly. Went inside, and it's nice. It's what one would expect if Ikea designed a parliament building. Too much wood, and the assembly room is a joke. Wood chairs? Come on.


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## Meditt (Nov 28, 2004)

It definitely looks very Mirallesque... looking at these pics I think its great and gorgeous (more the interiors than the facades, specially beautiful is the main hall for the deputees or whatever you call this in Scotland)...

I find the use of wood in the interiors very impressing, it gives it a very special atmosphere (never been there so I'm only speculating)... very personal and special, different from what would have been a more predictable use of metal, plastics, stone or other materials more "institutional"...
the wood gives it both an intimate feeling -closer to the people that this hall represents one may say-, but at the same time the space looks big and majestic enough to be breathtaking -the roof of the main hall is astonishing, in particular those wood beams and also the treatment and playfulness of the transparencies in the facade behind the president's table or whoever may sit down there in the center-...

I know it costed 10 times the initial budget, and being public money, I'm sure a lot of scots are pissed off and disgusted with how all this has been managed.. yet I think they must be proud of this building, cause the final result is wonderful and its been wide-worldly exposed (and with great reviews for what I've read)... Congrats.

All in all, I think its fu*king superb... Miralles' swan song couldn't have sounded better and been more spectacular... I'd love to make it up there someday and pay a visit...


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

I love the building, it's just a shame that the construction cost the British (not just Scottish!) taxpayer 10 times more than originally planned.


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## Be_Happy (Aug 21, 2004)

> It's fugly. Went inside, and it's nice. It's what one would expect if Ikea designed a parliament building. Too much wood, and the assembly room is a joke. Wood chairs? Come on.


What kind of chairs were you expecting? Inflatable? I think it's great. I love how it doesn't follow the stereotypical design of most parliament buildings. It's something completely different. A lot of people had pre-concieved ideas of what a parliament should look like - and because this building doesn't match that vision, they are dissapointed. I think it's amazing, though. The debating chamber is much more impressive than Westminster's in my opinion.


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## Met (Sep 4, 2003)

Cool! :yes:
Catalan design for the Scottish Parliament. kay:

a10! :runaway:


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## Ross (Nov 8, 2004)

In response to Jonesy55, its not that when the Scots send all their oil money to the SE of England! and the reason that the British taxes go on this is because it is a british project, we dont moan about our money being used on English projects!!!!!


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

Ross said:


> In response to Jonesy55, its not that when the Scots send all their oil money to the SE of England! and the reason that the British taxes go on this is because it is a british project, we dont moan about our money being used on English projects!!!!!


Well, don't moan about your oil money then, if this is a British project, they are British oil-fields! Are you sure no Scots moaned about the millenium dome??


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## centralized pandemonium (Aug 16, 2004)

Looks amazing to me.


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

I normally expect a parliament to look more stately and conservative you're right. However, the shoddy construction is already beginning to show: a few of the seats that were glued or tacked to the different elevations of floor were already broken off. At least the Welsh parliament will look nice.


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## nukey (Apr 17, 2004)

hey Meditt, Im just back from the trip. We spent a whole day in Igualada, visited the Archery range, EMBT's office, Diagonal Mar Park and got shown around St Caterina and the site office at the top of the building across the road. We only got to see the Gas Natural tower from the outside though cos the project architects were to busy on the day we had free. BTW, what I said in the thread about the Nouvel Tower holds: there isnt the fettishisticaly tight synthesis of form, stucture and function that there is in Swiss Re, which frankly is what sets it apart and makes it so different... not a bad thing. Although I preffered it in pictures to when I saw it in the flesh.


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## Meditt (Nov 28, 2004)

nukey said:


> hey Meditt, Im just back from the trip. We spent a whole day in Igualada, visited the Archery range, EMBT's office, Diagonal Mar Park and got shown around St Caterina and the site office at the top of the building across the road. We only got to see the Gas Natural tower from the outside though cos the project architects were to busy on the day we had free. BTW, what I said in the thread about the Nouvel Tower holds: there isnt the fettishisticaly tight synthesis of form, stucture and function that there is in Swiss Re, which frankly is what sets it apart and makes it so different... not a bad thing. Although I preffered it in pictures to when I saw it in the flesh.


sounds like you all had a good archi-time! :colgate:

so you didn't went down to Morella? I've never been there, but since there was all this fuzz about that school maybe I should go seeing it one day... the pictures look interesting but with that castle and mountain in the background I'm sure seeing it for real it would be very impressive...

I agree with that of the Agbar... I like it more from the distance, wether in pictures or right there, but I'm not crazy about the detailing... still I'm not sure if I prefer the Swiss Re or the Agbar, but one thing for sure, they are completely different... but both architectural wonders...

any pics? 

I've been reading more about the Scottish Parliament recently... and the more I read the more I like it... I'm pretty amazed with all the concrete (in situ and prefab) and wood details... now I get why the budget skyrocketed... but the building is so damn beautiful, and the fragmented composition, IMO, very inspired... I don't know how the scottish politicians feel about it, it would be nice to read what the users think about the whole complex...


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## Be_Happy (Aug 21, 2004)

samsonyuen said:


> I normally expect a parliament to look more stately and conservative you're right. However, the shoddy construction is already beginning to show: a few of the seats that were glued or tacked to the different elevations of floor were already broken off. At least the Welsh parliament will look nice.


...Well, I went about 2 weeks ago and no seats were broken off. Perhaps they were still fitting the seats when you visited...


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## Muffin (Feb 8, 2005)

By itself, I think the building is really great in how it tries to be challenging and different. I just don't know if it's appropriate to be a parlimentary building.


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## nukey (Apr 17, 2004)

Yeah Meditt, Im realy excited about visiting the Parliament. The expectation has been building ever since my visit to Santa Caterina which blew me away and considering the parliament is so much richer, layered and considered as a design Im shivering with anticipation.

Here are a couple of piccies from the trip:

Some friends making fun of this rather childish H&D.M building









The serene Igualada cemetary with a friend on the right being quite affected by the space









View from the new botanical gardes on the Montjuic over Barcelona









and finally the wonderful Snta Caterina market from EMBT's site office across the road. Benedetta's flat is just there to the right of the market.


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## Meditt (Nov 28, 2004)

great.. thanks for the pics!
definitely H&dM's Forum building is far from being any masterwork... and it pretty saddens me because I truly admire most of their works, though in this case, not even the tectonics have any kind of relevance or interest, and the excessive abstraction of the building makes it too simple (no surprize, since I've heard they had to do this project in a hurry)... we'll have to wait and see if they do anything else in Barcelona in the near future..

your Santa Caterina collage looks very Mirallesque by the way, pretty cool... XD

your probably right that the Scottish Parliament is richer in terms of design, it has to be, I've seen lots of preliminary sketches of the building and how it evolved... the fact that one is a local market and the other a Parliament would justify such differences anyway... I read somewhere (and I have to agree) that the Scottish Parliament must be the best example of Democracy applied to an administrative building in Europe... there's no main axis, no central core, the parts dance around an imaginary gravity center, thus making all the parts equal in terms of importance, the parts together make the whole... just like in a democratic society everyone has a vote and everyone is a part of the whole.. no hierarchies, the Miralles complex functions as a network of different functions.

though I think one thing that share both projects are the complexity of the roof designs. Both are really impressive... just by looking at the wood beams and skylights of the Parliament and the foldings of the plywood-covered metallic-roof of the Market one can see there's the same designing-hand behind them (also, check out Miralles' University campus in Vigo (Galicia), lots of similar features, such as the concrete pre-fab elements, the structural complexity, or the wood louvres)...

Parliament:









Market:



























but I think that the natural link between both roofs are the MSP hall (the glass leaves that flood with light the inner central space of the scottish complex) and the geometrical foldings (seen from above) of the market, covered with ceramic colorful tiles... both are plain A-W-E-S-O-M-E!



















and I love! the Canongate Wall at the back of the building, with these old and antique scottish stones...:


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## Auxodium (Oct 7, 2004)

god the building is confusing!!!


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## Meditt (Nov 28, 2004)

*The Herald: Spain honours Miralles Holyrood vision
GRAHAM KEELEY, Barcelona, and MARTIN WILLIAMS*

ENRIC Miralles has been posthumously honoured with Spain's greatest architectural prize for the controversial Scottish parliament building.
The architect and Benedetta Tagliabue, his wife and business partner, defeated a number of leading Spanish counterparts to take the Manuel de la Dehesa award.
Ms Tagliabue, who continues to run the Barcelona-based EMBT firm, last night said the honour justified their belief that the building had enhanced Edinburgh's architectural environment.
The accolade, known as the Premio de Arquitectura, is recognised as Spain's equivalent of the Royal Incorporation of British Architects' Stirling Prize. It is awarded every two years and comes with about £20,000 in prize money.
The jury at the VIII Architecture Biennal in Madrid chose Mr Miralles's design from about 200 candidates. The Holyrood project came at the top of the shortlist of 34 buildings designed by Spanish architects around the world.
The award will be seen by many as a vindication of the vision of the Catalan architect, depicted by many as an unpredictable figure at the heart of the Holyrood project. The £431m building was opened by the Queen last October – three years late and more than 10 times over initial estimates.
Speaking from San Sebastian last night, Ms Tagliabue said: "I am very, very happy with this because in Spain this is an award for the best building to be built by a Spanish architect anywhere over two years. There is an awful lot of fantastic buildings in this competition so it is a great honour because it shows that colleagues are aware of something that you have been doing outside of Spain.
"There were problems. We had to go to the inquiry, see the films and there is too much information about it all but I think everyone now is aware that the people working there are happy with it and that the building has a great place in the city." 
The jury said the avant-garde design of the building represented "the new national political character of Scotland". They added that it was "integrated with the surrounding landscape" of the city's Old Town and nearby Arthur's Seat.
Mr Miralles, 45, whose company EMBT clinched the design contract for Holyrood in partnership with Edinburgh-based RMJM in July 1998, died two years later, before the building was completed. 
Margo MacDonald, the independent MSP for Lothian and a long-time critic of the building project, said: "Nothing surprises me. I don't want to speak ill of him, but whether the judges were impressed or unimpressed by the sheer tragedy and heartache that permeated the whole Scottish parliament project, I have no way of knowing. I am happy for Benedetta. I would hope it gives her some some happiness and solace in her widowhood." 
A spokesman for the SNP added: "Mr Miralles's legacy will hopefully be his architecture and not the underlying controversies."
However George Reid, the parliament's presiding officer, last night said: "To be awarded the Manuel de la Dehesa prize is a great honour for the architect and a major recognition of the Holyrood building."
The drawings and photographs used for the design are on show in Madrid at an exhibition open until June 12.
The parliament building last month won its first architectural award since being completed. The Edinburgh Architectural Association Centenary Medal was presented to EMBT and RMJM at the group's annual ball. 
*Hailed as one of the leading architects of the twentieth century, Mr Miralles specialised in public and open spaces. He focused on the relationship between landscape, architecture and social interaction.*
Best-known for the Holyrood design and the controversy with which it was surrounded, his other famous works included the Igualda Memorial Park in Spain, the Heaven Pavilion at the Tateyama Museum in Japan and the unusual Utrecht City Hall in Holland.
He was also a Fullbright Visiting Scholar at Columbia University in the US and lectured throughout South America and Europe.
The Dehesa award was created by the Spanish ministry of housing, the Spanish Higher College of Architecture and two universities renowned for their architecture schools.
*Mr Miralles is thought of as an ambassador for Catalonia, the passionately independent part of north-east Spain where he grew up.* 
Susanna Landrove, a Barcelona-based architect and expert on Mr Miralles, said that the architect has never been popular with clients as his buildings were always expensive.
She added: *"He is one of the best-known architects to have come from this part of the world. 
"Gaudi was very inspirational for him. But Miralles was the first person to look at Gaudi in a modern way, not just as an architect of his day."*
A spokeswoman for the award was not available for comment last night.

http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/37379.html - (_via Archinect.com_)


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## istbull (Apr 14, 2005)

i didn't like this building.... it's looking like a shopping center...


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## Caustic (Jul 8, 2003)

I think it looks fun-bloody-tastic! 
What is the Welsh parliament going to look like?


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## potto (Sep 12, 2002)

istbull said:


> i didn't like this building.... it's looking like a shopping center...


Err please point out a shopping centre that has that much attention to detail and made up of such quality materials

I dont know why people expect such unique, hand crafted works to come out on budget. The mechanism and ethos behind their construction is so different to the calculated, mass-produced works that are the staple diet of the construction industry. We should be celebrating such buildings and not moan about something that they can never be


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## corrado1000 (Jan 5, 2007)

*funky!*

It is a funky building and should be definetly turned into a nightclub, now that would be amazing, well worth every penny!


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## corrado1000 (Jan 5, 2007)

would love to DJ in it!


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)




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## arzaranh (Apr 23, 2004)

that is just BAD.


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## corrado1000 (Jan 5, 2007)

The Houses of Parlaiment with a twist, gorgeous!


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## Prestonian (Sep 11, 2002)

I went to go and see it a short while ago and i'll be honest in saying i really couldn't make my mind up. It really does have some amazing qualities and features, i sat in on a debate in the chamber which was an incredible space, but there are parts of it that also don't work very well. It is a little confusing and, I think for scotland at least, is a little short on light, perhaps he had in mind brighter spanish days. I think it will definately grow on people and i do think it generally looks fantastic in the landscape, fitting in rather well and clearly there is a lot of substance and thought behind the deisgn. Also nice to see some of his other projects above that look equally cool!

===

Somebody asked about the welsh assembly building. That is now finished too and is an amazing building by British stalwart Lord Rogers. It shares a similar use of wood and openess to hollyrood but it is less grand in scale (but also much cheaper!). You'll find pics on google and the RRP website but for now here's a taster:


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

I like this one more. It has less "unique" architectural features as Holyrood, which will make it more timeless, I reckon. Thanks for the pics.


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

Is this the one that wound up costing countless billions? I think it is too gimicky to have a long lasting appeal, especially for such an august purpose as a Parliament building. Perhaps it just.... tries a bit too hard to be novel.


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## Unionstation13 (Aug 31, 2006)

they totally ignored Scottlands rich history,
this thing, it does not reflect the wonderful things Scottland has done,
they should have built something of a more timeless style.


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## taboe (Jan 30, 2007)

Unionstation13 said:


> they should have built something of a more timeless style.


Agree. I've been there and it's ok now, but I sincerely doubt that it will age well...


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## taboe (Jan 30, 2007)

^^^^by which I mean that it will be out of date within 25 years


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## Unionstation13 (Aug 31, 2006)

taboe said:


> Agree. I've been there and it's ok now, but I sincerely doubt that it will age well...


We should build goverment buildings in timeless styles, or neoclassical, or victorian.
Not modern, its pretty sad when my statehouse looks better than the scottish parliament.


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## Roberto-i (Jan 13, 2007)

Unionstation13 said:


> they totally ignored Scottlands rich history,
> this thing, it does not reflect the wonderful things Scottland has done,
> they should have built something of a more timeless style.


Indeed!
deconstructivism is a style for kids not for what has to be built in reality , that's one of the most awful and ridicolous buildigs I've seen in my life , shame shame on architects and those politicians who approved it.:bash:


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## Unionstation13 (Aug 31, 2006)

Roberto-i said:


> Indeed!
> deconstructivism is a style for kids not for what has to be built in reality , that's one of the most awful and ridicolous buildigs I've seen in my life , shame shame on architects and those politicians who approved it.:bash:


And people call it beautiful, whats beautiful are the old buildings around it,
that clump of recycled tin and plywood is just...bleh.


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## NeilF (Apr 22, 2006)

Unionstation13 said:


> We should build goverment buildings in timeless styles, or neoclassical, or victorian.
> Not modern, its pretty sad when my statehouse looks better than the scottish parliament.


This has got to be a bad joke?

I'll have to say - I live now five minutes walk from Holyrood and I'll be the first to admit that I have my problems with it (the faux bamboo, the shade covers for the windows that don't take into account the fact that it's in Scotland, not Spain and so forth) but to suggest that parliament buildings should take a particular form is insane - especially when such suggestions about neoclassical style and Victorianism are brought into it. 

Neoclassical may have worked in Edinburgh because of the other archetecture around it but one needs to ask oneself what the purpose of that would be? It will end up looking like this hammy monstrosity from 1990 that sits on the Royal Mile:










The people who chose the design for the Scottish Parliament made grave errors. Deciding to make it a modern building was not one of them. Anyone with any sense of Edinburgh, who isn't concerned with making buildings in 1990 that attempt, badly, to look like buildings from 1790, would understand that.

A successful parliament building should account for the history of the country that it represents and account for the archetecture in its immediate vacinity. Judging by Scottish tradition, it would then have to be a massive, square, stone building with a disproportionately large folly of a tower.

All in all, I like the building itself. I'm not sure its style will last and I'm not sure it fits its location, but given that it could have been Victorianism debauchery or neoclassicism, I'm glad they made it the way they did.

P.S. Have you ever been to Edinburgh, and seen the buildings directly around the Scottish Parliament? Most are 60s council housing, the Palace and this. You focus on, "the old buildings around it," is sort of a fallacy.


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## Unionstation13 (Aug 31, 2006)

NeilF said:


> This has got to be a bad joke?
> 
> I'll have to say - I live now five minutes walk from Holyrood and I'll be the first to admit that I have my problems with it (the faux bamboo, the shade covers for the windows that don't take into account the fact that it's in Scotland, not Spain and so forth) but to suggest that parliament buildings should take a particular form is insane - especially when such suggestions about neoclassical style and Victorianism are brought into it.
> 
> ...


well, it dident exactly have to be notre dam,
but something more classical, I mean, those buildings you posted look better than the scottish parliament, something that was pastful, timeless, and influential of scottlands history would have been better, modernism, it doesent work for goverment buildings in historical areas.


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## NeilF (Apr 22, 2006)

The SAS Radisson (the picture shown) is an absolute blight on the Royal Mile and there are few who disagree otherwise. It doesn't look anything like the rest of the Royal Mile, it doesn't even fit the scale of the rest of the Royal Mile. It's an absolute mess and that destroys the impression of Canongate more than Brutalism would. 

You must account for something when talking about the history of Edinburgh - it has an archetectural history that is older than America. I live in a building that was built in the early 1700s. Right across the street is one from 1622. Just across the road is something from 2007. Edinburgh doesn't have a style. It's a hotchpotch of "contempory" archeceture that stretches over 500 - 600 years. It has such a diverse history in that (and many other) senses and a modern (although not necessarily what was built) parliament building is more in keeping with that than that nonsense from 1990.

Don't get me wrong, I don't particularly like this building, in terms of its location or purpose (I do like the building, but that's ignoring the subjectivity of use and location) but I will resolutely defend that it should have been a modern building. 










This ^ is one of my favourite examples of modern archetecture in Edinburgh's Old Town. It works a lot more than the building at Holyrood, while still being distinctly modern. The building at Holyrood shouldn't, however, distract from the fact that it is a wonderful building, just wrong for purpose and (yes) location and that the decision to build a modern building was the correct one.


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## tanzirian (Jul 13, 2005)

There are many beautiful examples of modern architecture, but I can't say that this is one of them. IMO, amorphous designs like this one work well for museums (etc) but not for national assemblies.


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## Unionstation13 (Aug 31, 2006)

NeilF said:


> The SAS Radisson (the picture shown) is an absolute blight on the Royal Mile and there are few who disagree otherwise. It doesn't look anything like the rest of the Royal Mile, it doesn't even fit the scale of the rest of the Royal Mile. It's an absolute mess and that destroys the impression of Canongate more than Brutalism would.
> 
> You must account for something when talking about the history of Edinburgh - it has an archetectural history that is older than America. I live in a building that was built in the early 1700s. Right across the street is one from 1622. Just across the road is something from 2007. Edinburgh doesn't have a style. It's a hotchpotch of "contempory" archeceture that stretches over 500 - 600 years. It has such a diverse history in that (and many other) senses and a modern (although not necessarily what was built) parliament building is more in keeping with that than that nonsense from 1990.


Lol, you make it sound as if we have no old buildings, I live in the same kind of neighborhood(but more early 19th century, and early 20th century)
I understand what your saying. But, this is still a mistake, and insults the history of scottland, its not just speaking for Edinburgh, its speaking for the whole country.


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## NeilF (Apr 22, 2006)

How is it, though? How does it not account for Scotland's history? This is something I don't understand. Scotland's whole archetectural history is littered with massive follies based on what was popular at the time. The Scott Monument will always be an indication of that, but the town halls at Port Glasgow and Aberdeen also prove the point. 










The building here (minus the towers, which are considerably older) was originally going to be used for the parliament until it was deemed too small. In a way, I feel this indicates what I've been talking about - there are distinctly modern elements to it, but it works with its surroundings. Holyrood doesn't, and in that sense, I agree with you. I just don't think that's a reason to suggest that it shouldn't have been a distinctly modern building. Just one that worked better with its surroundings.

I think we agree, in a small way at least, on the basic point that Holyrood doesn't work with its surroundings. I do, however, very much dispute the points you make as to why. Maybe I have a different view because I actually live, not only in Edinburgh, but in the same small part of Edinburgh as the parliament (as well as the castle, the palace and so forth) I'm not sure. I just don't understand how, in any way, it ignores Scotland's history.


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## Overground (Apr 11, 2005)

It looks really western Canadian to me...suppose it's the wood. 

I guess a traditional Westminster style rectangular seating arrangment like the British and Canadian House of Commons would look out of place. A touch of green would have been nice though.


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## Its AlL gUUd (Jan 24, 2006)

People would judge a building from the exterior and this building is a monstrocity and UGLY on the outside. For a parliament building it is just BAD.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Despite the bad reviews of some here, I still have to say that from the few pictures I saw from it, that I love the style.

I cant judge however how incompatible it is with the surrounding.


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