# Soccer Stadiums of the USA and Canada



## kinggeorge

columbus stadium reminds me of bmo field


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## kinggeorge

Wezza said:


> New York will have Red Bull Park soon. When does it open? It looks like a cool little stadium. Who is playing in that pic of Giants Stadium? Looks like Juventus & who else?


looks like their playing manchester united


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## nyrmetros

kinggeorge said:


> columbus stadium reminds me of bmo field



BBN
Bare Bones Necessity.


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## XCRunner

Scba said:


> Except that Reliant isn't an MLS stadium, it's only used for international matches.


yeah...


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## Scoots71

Red Bull Park









Pizza Hut Park (Dallas, TX)

















Toyota Park (Chicago, IL)


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## Canadian Chocho

The Home Depot Center










Pizza Hut Park










Robertson Stadium










Crew Stadium










Toyota Park


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## Canadian Chocho

Poplar Point Stadium


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## Dallas star

Wow I thought soccer wasn't very popular in the U.S looks like the stadiumms get a good turn out...I thought the just used foot ball stadiums


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## nomarandlee

Canadian Chocho said:


> Poplar Point Stadium


wow, that DC United render looks real cool. I love the new stadium design of one side having all the luxary suites (Soldier Field or Philips Arena).


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## Wezza

It's starting to drive me nuts all of the naming rights to stadiums these days. Some of the names sound ridiculous.

Anyways, does anyone know why the roofs on some of these stadia sit so high above the stands? Ie. Toyota Park? I can see corporate suites above the grandstand, but then there is a huge gap to the roof. I'm thinking maybe so more can be installed if needed? I don't think the roof would be all that useful at that height above the stands. 

The Poplar Point stadium looks pretty cool.


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## nomarandlee

> to drive me nuts all of the naming rights to stadiums these days. Some of the names sound ridiculous.
> 
> Anyways, does anyone know why the roofs on some of these stadia sit so high above the stands? Ie. Toyota Park? I can see corporate suites above the grandstand, but then there is a huge gap to the roof. I'm thinking maybe so more can be installed if needed? I don't think the roof would be all that useful at that height above the stands.


Yea, the names can be pretty lame. But better on the stadiums then on the shirts I say though.:lol: 

In the case of Toyota Park (and many of the others) the stadiums are meant to be prepared for further expansion so I do beleive that is why it is like that.


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## nyrmetros

some of the stadiums are built with expansion in mind.... some are more difficult to expand.


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## The Concerned Potato

Pizza Hut Park? *vomits*


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## nyrmetros

The Concerned Potato said:


> Pizza Hut Park? *vomits*


Just wait untill Birmingham's new stadium.......


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## johnz88

how about Dick's Sporting Goods Park in Colorado, that is even worse than any of the other ones


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## prelude91

Toyota Park; Home of the Chicago Fire


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## irving1903

The Concerned Potato said:


> Pizza Hut Park? *vomits*



im with you i hate it...i love FC Dallas, but i hate Pizza Hut Park...the name and the stadium sucks...i really wish they stayed at the Cotton Bowl and fixed it up 

(at least then one of the MLS stadiums would have some tradition with it) 

or at least move to the new cowboys stadium.


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## Zorba

irving1903 said:


> (at least then one of the MLS stadiums would have some tradition with it)


What strong soccer tradition does the Cotton Bowl have? 

If you're talking about sports tradition in general, then don't forget that MLS teams all or have called stadiums like Giants Stadium, RFK Stadium, and Soldier Field home.


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## nyrmetros

the Cotton Bowl was no good for MLS long term.... PHP could use some improvements, it's just lacking that wow factor... of course a proper sellout every game with passionate supporters could fix that in no time.


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## Pronaos

Pizza Hut Park (FC Dallas)









Dick's Sporting Goods Park (Colorado Rapids)









Toyota Park (Chicago Fire)


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## dwbakke

Wezza said:


> The Poplar Point stadium looks pretty cool.


Unfortunately the Poplar Point stadium deal may have fallen through.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/20/AR2007072002470.html

This is a very complicated issue for the team and the city and it's politicians, and while it's not completely dead yet, it's certainly not looking good for DC United.


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## isaidso

Attendance figures for MLS 2007 through June:

1. Los Angeles Galaxy: 23,595
2. Toronto FC: 19,938 (SOLD OUT)
3. DC United: 16,902
4. Real Salt Lake: 15,949
5. Houston: 15,549
6. Chicago Fire: 15,469
7. Chivas: 15,340
8. Dallas: 15,082
9.  Colorado: 14,568
10. New England: 14,258
11. Columbus: 12,988
12. New York Red Bulls: 9,765
13. Kansas City: 9,720


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## BobDaBuilder

Looks like a great little league over in America.

Probably now they just got to get the quality on the field right and it will become a great success.

No doubt the USA will someday win the ultimate prize.

Quality would improve drastically if they merged CONMEBOL and CONCACAF. You get the feeling that with 3.5 automatic slots for North American sides for the World Cup they are quite comfortable with the status quo and this protects the North American sides from the South American masters.

Initially you will get pain, but ultimately you would get much, much better.


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## EADGBE

Wezza said:


> New York will have Red Bull Park soon. When does it open? It looks like a cool little stadium. Who is playing in that pic of Giants Stadium? Looks like Juventus & who else?


It was Manchester United - a preseason tour in 2004 as I remember. It think we won about 4-1.

I'm sure the game set an attendance record at Giants Stadium of something like 80,006 - which was a little surprising given that that sort of implied that the Giants had never sold out a game before (and I can't believe that).

While it's good that an English team versus an Italian team team managed to sell out Giants Stadium, it all sounded like a bit of PR-driven story to me...


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## EADGBE

irving1903 said:


> im with you i hate it...i love FC Dallas, but i hate Pizza Hut Park...the name and the stadium sucks...i really wish they stayed at the Cotton Bowl and fixed it up
> 
> (at least then one of the MLS stadiums would have some tradition with it)
> 
> or at least move to the new cowboys stadium.


What's happening to Texas Stadium? That would be ideal, wouldn't it?


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## dwbakke

EADGBE said:


> What's happening to Texas Stadium? That would be ideal, wouldn't it?


It's way too big. FC Dallas draws under 20,000 per game, and like most MLS teams doesn't need a stadium over 25,000 people. I assume Texas Stadium will get destroyed after the Cowboys move out.


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## rantanamo

They could have easily taken out the upper deck and suites at Texas Stadium as the roof is a seperate, free standing structure and the lower bowl is actually built into the ground. Instead, FC Dallas took the cheapest deal they could as far north in the suburbs as they could get, leaving behind much of their fanbase in Dallas proper. The lower bowl of Texas Stadium would have made a great, intimate venue with a full roof and room for expansion. They could have even taken out some seating in each endzone and kept just the closest seating with perhaps a grass hill above those seats. There will even be a future light rail stop there. Texas Stadium's location would have been more indicative of more fans getting to the games. The new stadium is simply way way north and in tollway land where most people don't even want to drive.

Instead it will be torn down and plans call for a large urban village taking over the land.


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## EADGBE

Or they could have spent precisely nothing on keeping the upper tier exactly as it is. If the sight of empty seating affects the atmosphere, then maybe just curtain it off for MLS games - like many indoor arenas often do. This way they could still use the additional capacity for exhibition and/or international matches. There must be just a negligible differential cost of maintenace.

There's also then the capability to host concerts and other sporting events in the close season.

What about all those High School games that got, like 42,000 fans in at TS? Will Jerryworld be hosting them too?

It all seems a bit wasteful. What is it, 65,000? Outside of (United, Arsenal and now Liverpool) 3 teams in the English Premiership, every other club would die for a facility like Texas Stadium.

I guess it's the other side of having such a vibrant stadium construction climate in the US but it's not too shabby here, either and even so, I can imagine fans of big teams like Chelsea and Spurs watching Texas Stadium being demolished and just shaking their heads with amazement.


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## nyrmetros

FC Dallas would never own texas Stadium..... which is the WHOLE point of MLS teams moving into new stadiums.


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## VelesHomais

The new Red Bull stadium will be the best


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## Benn

That one rendering Kansas City released was pretty cool with the huge curving roof and separate stand and what not, I definitely want to see where that goes.


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## hngcm

Benn said:


> That one rendering Kansas City released was pretty cool with the huge curving roof and separate stand and what not, I definitely want to see where that goes.


Do you have a pic of the rendering?


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## You are to blame

hngcm said:


> Do you have a pic of the rendering?


Here you go









KCW are still looking for the right location though

And here is the updated DC united stadium 









and finally the new Real Salt Lake stadium: Under construction


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## hngcm

some fine stadia right there!


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## EADGBE

I've just noticed something odd. All the MLS renders seem to be done digitally, whereas many (though not all) proposed NFL/MLB/College are conceptualised using old-fashioned artists' impressions.

It's like the more mainstream projects almost have to be seen using the more traditional types of visualisation. Has anyone else noticed that?


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## eMKay

BobDaBuilder said:


> Quality would improve drastically if they merged CONMEBOL and CONCACAF. You get the feeling that with 3.5 automatic slots for North American sides for the World Cup they are quite comfortable with the status quo and this protects the North American sides from the South American masters.


I completely agree, CONCACAF is a complete joke with only two competitive teams, and it artificially inflates the FIFA rankings of USA and Mexico giving people false hope in World Cups. 

Better competition would yield better WC results in the future for Team USA .


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## nyrmetros

EADGBE said:


> I've just noticed something odd. All the MLS renders seem to be done digitally, whereas many (though not all) proposed NFL/MLB/College are conceptualised using old-fashioned artists' impressions.
> 
> It's like the more mainstream projects almost have to be seen using the more traditional types of visualisation. Has anyone else noticed that?


yes. which is why SLC had actual drawings, while most of the others are rendered.


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## Kuwaiti

Im glad MLS are getting their own soccer specific stadiums. I hate soccer being played in a large baseball stadium with a weird diamond-shaped seating arrangements. and i hate it being played in large football stadiums because the field dimensions dont meet requirements. soccer deserves to be played in small match box stadiums like in europe... 

so kudos 

but but but... i insist they change pizza hut stadium... that stadium sucks.


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## Zaki

eMKay said:


> I completely agree, CONCACAF is a complete joke with only two competitive teams, and it artificially inflates the FIFA rankings of USA and Mexico giving people false hope in World Cups.
> 
> Better competition would yield better WC results in the future for Team USA .


Is that the reason why the only way American's won agaisnt Canada in the Gold Cup was through garbage calls by the referee?


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## eMKay

Zaki said:


> Is that the reason why the only way American's won agaisnt Canada in the Gold Cup was through garbage calls by the referee?


That's your own obviously biased opinion and doesn't deserve an argument.


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## eMKay

You are to blame said:


> Here you go
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KCW are still looking for the right location though
> 
> And here is the updated DC united stadium
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and finally the new Real Salt Lake stadium: Under construction



Those are awesome. I especially like KC's idea, does that roof block the hot evening sun?


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## Kuwaiti

^must be... anyway there are now 11/13 teams in mls with soccer stadiums... 2 more to go; new england + chicago.


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## Benn

Chicago has had one for a while. KC and DC aren't for sure things, but I do hope they get done.


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## You are to blame

Kuwaiti said:


> ^must be... anyway there are now 11/13 teams in mls with soccer stadiums... 2 more to go; new england + chicago.



*correction:*
14 teams will begin the 2008 season (SJ returns) of those:

7 teams currently play in SSS:
LA, Chivas, Dallas, Colorado, Chicago, Toronto, Columbus

2 teams have SSS under construction:
NYRB (completion in 2009) RSL (completion in 2008)

3 teams have proposals:
DC United, Kansas City, San Jose

1 team is in talks with the city about a SSS:
Houston

1 team has no plans for a SSS:
New England


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## isaidso

eMKay said:


> That's your own obviously biased opinion and doesn't deserve an argument.


It is easy to label someone biased because of nationality, and insulting to say someone isn't capable of objectiveness because of it. If you don't think Canadians are capable of objectivity regarding that soccer game, I suggest you sample the opinions of soccer fans around the world who watched it. 

Those that watched it almost universally accept that the Canadian goal should never have been waived off. Canada was robbed whether you want to admit it or not. It is you who has allowed bias to cloud your objectivity.

Horrible officiating costs teams wins all the time. It is excruciatingly frustrating to watch, but it happens, and will continue to happen. You just need to accept it, and move on. I've moved on, what I can't accept is such a blind assertion that the win was deserved. I played sports for many years, and would never ever want to win like that. The USA won, but their players will always know that they stole that one. At least the ones with an ounce of sportsmanship and integrity anyway.


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## hngcm

You are to blame said:


> *correction:*
> 14 teams will begin the 2008 season (SJ returns) of those:
> 
> 7 teams currently play in SSS:
> LA, Chivas, Dallas, Colorado, Chicago, Toronto, Columbus
> 
> 2 teams have SSS under construction:
> NYRB (completion in 2009) RSL (completion in 2008)
> 
> 3 teams have proposals:
> DC United, Kansas City, San Jose
> 
> 1 team is in talks with the city about a SSS:
> Houston
> 
> 1 team has no plans for a SSS:
> New England


Does San Jose have any renderings for their proposal?


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## nyrmetros

hngcm said:


> Does San Jose have any renderings for their proposal?


some fan made renderings I think.


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## palindrome

You are to blame said:


> *correction:*
> 14 teams will begin the 2008 season (SJ returns) of those:
> 
> 7 teams currently play in SSS:
> LA, Chivas, Dallas, Colorado, Chicago, Toronto, Columbus
> 
> 2 teams have SSS under construction:
> NYRB (completion in 2009) RSL (completion in 2008)
> 
> 3 teams have proposals:
> DC United, Kansas City, San Jose
> 
> 1 team is in talks with the city about a SSS:
> Houston
> 
> 1 team has no plans for a SSS:
> New England


New England is infact in talks with the city about a stadium. 




> *Revolution’s the goal: Somerville talks stadium with Krafts
> *
> Thursday, August 2, 2007 - Updated: 08:18 AM EST
> 
> Somerville is emerging as a contender to land what could be the Boston area’s next big major league sports stadium.
> Major League Soccer’s New England Revolution and Somerville officials have held preliminary discussions about building a 20,000-plus seat soccer stadium on a site not far from Charlestown, Mayor Joseph Curtatone confirmed.
> The 100-acre tract of vacant lots, industrial buildings and rail lines off Innerbelt Road near Interstate 93 has long been targeted by Somerville for redevelopment.
> The talks come roughly a year after the Revolution - part of the Kraft family’s sports and business empire that includes the New England Patriots [team stats] - began searching for a stadium site. Robert Kraft recently attended an event held by the Somerville mayor, though Curtatone contends the visit was unrelated to the stadium interest.
> 
> 
> “We have had very preliminary inquiries and conversations,” Curtatone said. “It’s exciting to think that an organization like the New England Revolution and Kraft family would be interested in Somerville, but we are not surprised.”
> A new Revs soccer stadium could have between 20,000 and 25,000 seats and cost anywhere from $50 million to $200 million to build, based on other new stadiums Major League Soccer has built around the country.
> These stadiums are specifically designed for soccer, with fewer seats than big football stadiums, like Gillette Stadium, where the Revs play now.
> They also often double as concert venues, one local sports executive says. With a central, urban location like Somerville, the Krafts would immediately become players in the local concert industry and a powerful competitor to the suburban Tweeter Center, which is not far from Gillette Stadium.
> The Krafts’ interest in Somerville comes after inquiries in Boston as well.
> A site in Roxbury targeted by City Hall for redevelopment - near the Ruggles T Station - was for a time considered by some local real estate executives and city officials to have potential as a stadium site. But City Hall recently awarded that tract of land to a nonprofit looking to build an arts complex.
> Kraft family executives a few years ago also examined land at a Boston development site near Chinatown.
> “We are still talking with a number of communities,” said Brian Bilello, the Revs’ chief operating officer. “Obviously Somerville is one of those communities.”


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## Kuwaiti

thanks for the info. 

good job for the american soccer fans !


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## nyrmetros

now we just need terracing and roofs over the stands.....


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## dwbakke

At this rate and with the state of the DC government and the DC United proposal DC United could be the last team in the league with an SSS.  
I still think we'll beat out New England, though.


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## palindrome

Probably will ^. NE has just began talks, and will not have a new stadium probably for minimum another 4-5 years.


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## dwbakke

palindrome said:


> Probably will ^. NE has just began talks, and will not have a new stadium probably for minimum another 4-5 years.


Of course, when dealing with the DC government, 4-5 years is considered pretty fast, so it could be a race.


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## eMKay

nyrmetros said:


> now we just need terracing and roofs over the stands.....


No we don't.


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## 7t

I wanna check out the Home Depot stadium in my next trip to LA probably around fall


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## nyrmetros

eMKay said:


> No we don't.


yes we do


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## rantanamo

why?


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## DeMaFrost

Toyota Park: Home of the Chicago Fire:


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## Benn

After seeing a game in Hamburg, having a terrace full of supporters is definately a cool thing. But that was a Bundesliga game with an HSV crowd of 50,000. Here in the MLS most teams would have half empty terraces at this point. Toronto could put a small terrace in the open end, but I can't think of anywhere else that would really benefit from terracing. As for roofs, high translucent roofs would be beneficial for many stadiums, but they aren't super cheap and not really necessary for most clubs now.


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## isaidso

I've heard that Toronto is already looking to expand BMO Field. BMO Field just opened this year, but demand has far outstripped what studies indicated was needed. Toronto FC games are sold out the entire season. It wouldn't surprise me if Toronto FC could sustain a stadium with a capacity of 40,000. At this size, it would be great to be able to watch an Argonauts game there as well.


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## bizkit

*The Beckham effect*

Fans watch as the Los Angeles Galaxy take on the New York Red Bulls at Giants Stadium. An MLS record crowd of 66,237 showed up to watch the match.


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## LosAngelesSportsFan

that was a mistake, the MLS record is here in LA, where we have had a few crowds over 75,000. that was for a MLS stand ALone game for the Red Bulls.


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## VelesHomais

But it was probably a record for the eastern division of MLS


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## LosAngelesSportsFan

oh for sure. it was a great crowd too. that was a fun game, to bad the Galaxy Defense / Goaltending is so horrible.


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## krudmonk

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> oh for sure. it was a great crowd too. that was a fun game, to bad the Galaxy Defense / Goaltending is so horrible.


You can't blame Cannon.


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## 3tmk

Wattereus sucks, but Cannon did the best he could. His new look though sucks, he looks like a complete *******


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## LosAngelesSportsFan

ya, big time. he did have many spectacular stops, so my comment was more towards the D.


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## VelesHomais

You are to blame said:


> Here you go
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KCW are still looking for the right location though
> 
> And here is the updated DC united stadium
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and finally the new Real Salt Lake stadium: Under construction


These are friggin' awesome!


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## nyrmetros

any updates?


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## nyrmetros

anything at all?


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## VelesHomais

There's a webcam for the Red Bulls stadium, but there's nothing interesting to see yet.


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## BoulderGrad

*Seattle awarded MLS Franchise*

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/soccer/2004005776_mls10.html

Could start play as soon as the '09 season. Official announcement will be made this Tuesday. Great for the sports fans in the city after the continuing fiasco with the Sonics. They will "start out" playing at Qwest Field. Is that cheeky talk for planning a SSS at some point down the road?


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## nyrmetros

they may be stuck at QWest for a long time as they new team owners i think own the stadium and the nfl team ? rent free.....


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## Scba

There's been talk in Portland about kicking the Beavers out of the very-cool PGE Park so that the dimensions can be permanently altered to eventually seek out an MLS team. They're at the second teir right now. 



















The capacity is just under 20,000 right now.


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## krudmonk

I hope that happens for Portland. They have better fans than many MLS clubs.


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## nyrmetros

krudmonk said:


> I hope that happens for Portland. They have better fans than many MLS clubs.



True. The Timbers Army of Portland are better than most MLS supporters clubs.


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## mr.x

Vancouver

Seats 15,000, expandable to 30,000 in the future through the addition of tiers.


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## Pronaos

I'm especially impressed with the real salt lake stadium. Does anyone know who the architect is??


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## Benn

Rossetti Architects, They also did the HDC in LA, Toyota Park in Chicago and are the designers of Red Bull Park as well.


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## nyrmetros

hope all the new MLS stadiums don't all look the same.........


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## eMKay

Joop20 said:


> What planet are you on? Just cuz David Beckham plays in the MLS doesn't mean your league is better than the Mexican league :lol:.


Oh look, another internet moron. I'm going by what I saw with my own eyes, on this planet, when the two leagues played each other.


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## eMKay

Canadian Chocho said:


> ^^ Mexican League is definitely not pathetic.


And neither is the MLS, I was merely returning his ignorant insult.


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## Uncle Phil

The MLS will get better and become more of a prominent league as time goes by. You cant expect such a young and new league to be one of the best in the world. 

Oh, if anyone is interested. MLS attendance, compared to European soccer attendances. 2005-2006


German Bundesliga – 40,745
England Premiership – 33,864
Span La Liga – 29,029
Italy Serie A – 21,698
France Ligue 1 – 21,576
Dutch Eredivisie – 16,805
Scotland Premier League – 16,147
*MLS - 15,108*
Portugal Superliga – 10,600
Sweden – 9,760
Denmark – 7,957
Poland – 6,833
Greece Ethniki A – 5,627
Ireland Premier – 1,393


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## ottooo

^^ I think that's a bit out of context.

There isn't much difference between The Netherlands (16.805) and the MLS (15.108), but the total population here is about 16 million people. So that's not even one team per 1 million people, while in the States there are about 300 million people and there are only 13 (next season 14) teams.


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## Lostboy

Of course, but nevertheless considering it is the fifth league in America (not including highly popular college sports), that's a pretty impressive total, for a sport that they thought would never make inroads at all to America.


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## gugasounds

ther is no competition level in the mls because they dont play for anything.
The mls level will stay like that. 
The mls is only a local tournament and has no team that has acomplished something important like chivas or boca juniros or river plate or america.


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## nomarandlee

ottooo said:


> ^^ I think that's a bit out of context.
> 
> There isn't much difference between The Netherlands (16.805) and the MLS (15.108), but the total population here is about 16 million people. So that's not even one team per 1 million people, while in the States there are about 300 million people and there are only 13 (next season 14) teams.


So to be impressive to you would the U.S. have to average 164k/game compared to say UK to be a good league since the U.S. is approximately five times larger? :shocked:

Some of those top leagues in Europe must have some really small attendance's though near the bottom compared to the icon teams.


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## nomarandlee

gugasounds said:


> ther is no competition level in the mls because they dont play for anything.
> The mls level will stay like that.
> The mls is only a local tournament and has no team that has acomplished something important like chivas or boca juniros or river plate or america.


 Honestly, I stil l don't think it would matter nill for most American sports fans even if an MLS team had the ultimate glory and winnings as those world powerhouses listed :hahano:

American sports fans would want to compete with the R Madrids, Arsenals, Bayern Munichs, and Man U's and then only then would their be aknowledgement and a feeling that soccer has arrived and make people take notice.


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## Uncle Phil

ottooo said:


> I think that's a bit out of context.
> 
> There isn't much difference between The Netherlands (16.805) and the MLS (15.108), but the total population here is about 16 million people. So that's not even one team per 1 million people, while in the States there are about 300 million people and there are only 13 (next season 14) teams.


Drawing those kinds of averages is pretty good in my opinion for a country that supposedly does not like the game, am I right? The MLS is not really that wide of a league either. Its new and there are few major stars. This is unlike the Netherlands, which loves the game, and has more of a history with the game.


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## Uncle Phil

nomarandlee said:


> Honestly, I stil l don't think it would matter nill for most American sports fans even if an MLS team had the ultimate glory and winnings as those world powerhouses listed :hahano:
> 
> American sports fans would want to compete with the R Madrids, Arsenals, Bayern Munichs, and Man U's and then only then would their be aknowledgement and a feeling that soccer has arrived and make people take notice.


I think that last part is especially true. As an on the fence soccer fan (I follow the World Cup and Pan-American tournaments), I would be much more into the game if we could knock off a couple of star studded European teams or maybe some from Brazil/Mexico. 

As the game becomes more of a spectator sport here (it will never match the NFL/NCAA though) the league will start attracting more big name players from around the world.


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## ottooo

That wasn't really my point, but you stated that this proved the success of the MLS, because there are high attendances. But looking at the total number of people in the US, you should expect more people to attend games. If you have big cities like NYC or LA and you only get 15-20.000 people in the stadium, then I think there is still a lot of room for improvement, even if it's only the 5th or 6th sport in the US. The country is big enough to have many big sports.

I'm not trying to say the MLS is crap, because in my opinion it isn't. But in a country that big with that many big cities, you would expect more people going to see a game. Just look at the 1994 WC. If I remember correctly, that tournament broke all the records of people going to the stadium. And that was even before the MLS started. I think that comparing the attendances to the other sport would be better (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL).


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## Uncle Phil

ottooo said:


> That wasn't really my point, but you stated that this proved the success of the MLS, because there are high attendances. But looking at the total number of people in the US, you should expect more people to attend games. If you have big cities like NYC or LA and you only get 15-20.000 people in the stadium, then I think there is still a lot of room for improvement, even if it's only the 5th or 6th sport in the US. The country is big enough to have many big sports.
> 
> I'm not trying to say the MLS is crap, because in my opinion it isn't. But in a country that big with that many big cities, you would expect more people going to see a game. Just look at the 1994 WC. If I remember correctly, that tournament broke all the records of people going to the stadium. And that was even before the MLS started. I think that comparing the attendances to the other sport would be better (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL).


I think those attendances are proving that the MLS/soccer _is_ doing ok. Just because the U.S. has 300 million people, doesnt necessarily mean you will have higher attendances. Look at Russia. Their top league draws less per game then does the MLS. The Brazilian main leauge also draws less then the MLS does over average. I know these leagues have like a hundred more games, but they also are more 'soccer mad' then the U.S. is! The MLS season runs from April to mid-November. In that time, you have it competing with the entireity of the Major Leauge Baseball season (2,450 games a year), partially the NBA regular season (and its looooong playoffs that run to June), partially the NHL season, almost all of the NCAA Football regular season, and a large part of the NFL season.


----------



## nyrmetros

relax. MLS is doing fine. What's the latest on the MLS stadiums?


----------



## Fabio1976

The MLS is truely growing !!
The last average attendance has been 16.700 in the regular season and almost 18.000 in the play-off. In 2009 there will be Seattle ( has already sold 8.000 season tickets in 10 days !! ) and probably Philadelphia and in 2010 St Louis and probably NEW YORK CITY ( stadium in Queens ).
I am sure that in 2010 MLS season the average attendance will be more than 20.000


----------



## Uncle Phil

Dont forget about the Toronto FC, which sold out season tickets next year.


----------



## Canadian Chocho

Uncle Phil said:


> Dont forget about the Toronto FC, which sold out season tickets next year.


Fucken right!


----------



## Fabio1976

Great Toronto FC fans : all sold the 16.000 season tickets !!!


----------



## ramvid01

Joop20 said:


> What planet are you on? Just cuz David Beckham plays in the MLS doesn't mean your league is better than the Mexican league :lol:.


Read what you quoted. He didn't say it was better. He said it was of a similar level.


----------



## XCRunner

BobDaBuilder said:


> Looks like a great little league over in America.
> 
> Probably now they just got to get the quality on the field right and it will become a great success.
> 
> No doubt the USA will someday win the ultimate prize.
> 
> Quality would improve drastically if they merged CONMEBOL and CONCACAF. You get the feeling that with 3.5 automatic slots for North American sides for the World Cup they are quite comfortable with the status quo and this protects the North American sides from the South American masters.
> 
> Initially you will get pain, but ultimately you would get much, much better.


I've been advocating this for years. Now that Australia joined the Asian confederation, you might as well merge the rest of Oceania in with Asia, then combine N and S America. That way, you'd have 4 confederations with roughly the same # of nations (about 50).


----------



## Lostboy

Is there any evidence that the MLS want to make a second New York team though?


----------



## Kenni

*Well, gotta give to the Los Angeles Galaxy's (and now also the Chivas USA) Home Depot Center for getting the whole trend started.*


----------



## Carrerra

Kenni said:


> *Well, gotta give to the Los Angeles Galaxy's (and now also the Chivas USA) Home Depot Center for getting the whole trend started.*


Looks like parking capacity is bigger than stadium capacity :cheers:


----------



## en1044

Scba said:


> I don't understand why, if they aren't going to get a new stadium, DC United hasn't renovated/overhauled RFK Stadium. They're the only tenants now, there's no more baseball or football there.
> 
> When is the USL stadium in Atlanta going to be fully built out?


its such an old piece of crap its just not worth it...DC united is in a pretty bad spot IMO


----------



## en1044

Carrerra said:


> If I were the owner of DC United I would buy RFK stadium itself from the municipality with the money to build new stadium. It was built so long ago and is very very cheap stadium compared to recently built stadiums. Wikipidia says its construction cost is just 20 million dollars!


you cant just buy the stadium, its owned by the federal government, and congress would have to approve. Its complicated


----------



## Kenni

Carrerra said:


> Looks like parking capacity is bigger than stadium capacity :cheers:


Of course! this is Los Angeles after all,.. we love our cars.:cheers: Our city gave the world the "car culture":cheers:

Hmmm, futbol is an adolescent sport in the USA, why build a 100k capacity stadium when a 25k will do. This isn't London or Buenos Aires my friend.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Kenni said:


> *Well, gotta give to the Los Angeles Galaxy's (and now also the Chivas USA) Home Depot Center for getting the whole trend started.*


Um, you do know the Charleston Battery and Columbus Crew stadiums came 4 years before the HDC, don't you? There may have been 1-2 built prior to that, I just can't recall right now.


----------



## GunnerJacket

lpioe said:


> The future stadium of Real Salt Lake looks pretty nice.
> Btw is there any specific reason why they have "Real" in the name?


It's the Spanish "ray-al" pronunciation. When you don't have much of a bona fide soccer history, borrow some by using the namesake of one of the world's most famous clubs! :nuts:



> And is the name of the team playing at Buck Shaw really "Earthquakes"?
> That would be pretty stupid imo...


Well it's indicative of the local area and is arguably the most historic name still in use in US soccer. Sure beats the MLS clubs first name for San Jose - the Clash!


----------



## www.sercan.de

lpioe said:


> The future stadium of Real Salt Lake looks pretty nice.
> Btw is there any specific reason why they have "Real" in the name?
> 
> And is the name of the team playing at Buck Shaw really "Earthquakes"?
> That would be pretty stupid imo...


Maybe Real Madrid is involved in it?

Thanks Michal


----------



## en1044

lpioe said:


> The future stadium of Real Salt Lake looks pretty nice.
> Btw is there any specific reason why they have "Real" in the name?
> 
> And is the name of the team playing at Buck Shaw really "Earthquakes"?
> That would be pretty stupid imo...


why is that stupid? its the same kind of name used anywhere in the US


----------



## GunnerJacket

www.sercan.de said:


> Maybe Real Madrid is involved in it?


They did/are pursuing some form of ties to Madrid, but the first attempt at a game between the clubs in Salt Lake has fallen through. There may be other business dealings but it's not, IIRC, anything as formal or coordinated as Arsenal has with the Colorado Rapids.


----------



## lpioe

Hmm, from Wikipedia:


> Dave Checketts and SCP Worldwide partners Dean Howes, Kenneth Munoz, Michael McCarthy and Chris Bevilacqua, chose Real Salt Lake for the team's name because they desired to associate the team with a successful soccer club, Real Madrid, as well as to develop a brand that was clearly associated with Football.
> 
> The team's name was initially met with derision in the fan community. Many fans thought the name should more accurately reflect the Salt Lake area. In the passing years, the criticism from local fans and the media has waned, and the club has instituted a formal relationship with Real Madrid. The team colors are claret red, cobalt blue, and Real gold.[1]


I think its kinda strange. The spanish clubs got awarded the title "real" from the king himself and they just copy it without any apparent relation hno:


As for the "Earthquakes" I just find it a bit strange to name a team after a potential natural disaster. But agree its better than "The Clash" :lol:


----------



## Carrerra

lpioe said:


> The future stadium of Real Salt Lake looks pretty nice.
> Btw is there any specific reason why they have "Real" in the name?


I think they should pay royalties to Real Madrid



lpioe said:


> And is the name of the team playing at Buck Shaw really "Earthquakes"?
> That would be pretty stupid imo...


I recommend tsunami instead of earthquakes.


----------



## GunnerJacket

lpioe said:


> As for the "Earthquakes" I just find it a bit strange to name a team after a potential natural disaster. But agree its better than "The Clash" :lol:


In an effort to stand out from the all-too common array of animal names, soccer teams in the US have experimented with a variety of non-traditional names: Rowdies, Fusion, Kixx... Natural wonders have also hit the scene including the California Surf and the still playing Vancouver Whitecaps. Plus earthquakes are common enough in California that they're not all "disasters." It works for them. 



Carrerra said:


> I think they should pay royalties to Real Madrid.


I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume Madrid does not, and never will be able to, copyright the word "royal" in any language. Especially if the term was heaped upon them by royalty, suggesting that, if anything, Salt Lake should pay the former Spanish monarchy! :lol:


----------



## Scba

I'm okay with Real, but for an MLS team to have FC in its name is ridiculous. Think about it for a second.


----------



## Patrick

Scba said:


> I'm okay with Real, but for an MLS team to have FC in its name is ridiculous. Think about it for a second.


never thought of that, but now after you wrote it, SO true :laugh:
i agree with the earthquake topic. the name is bad.

are these "walls" over the stand in Colorado, Chicago, Los Angeles media facilities? They are big. Too big for my taste.

How are the average attendance numbers?


----------



## carlspannoosh

Big Texan said:


> Colorado Rapids / Dick's Sporting Goods Park
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chicago Fire / Toyota Park
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LA Galaxy / Chivas USA / Home Depot Center


Some nice stadiums. The pics suggest that there is a definite North American flavour to the designs.Very easy on the eye.It will also be interesting to find out what American fans think of the more typically european type designs when they are up and running.


----------



## Scba

michał_;21816367 said:


> It took me a moment and no results...


FC stands for Football Club, and is being used by a team playing in Major League Soccer. :bash: :bash: :bash:


----------



## michał_

Scba said:


> FC stands for Football Club, and is being used by a team playing in Major League Soccer. :bash: :bash: :bash:


nothing new... But how on earth is FC more ridiculous than Real?


----------



## Big Texan

I think the interesting thing about the earlier stadiums is that they were made in a way that would allow you to add more stand to them easily as the MLS grows and soccer grows in the US. Im willing to say in 20 years, all Americas Soccer stadiums will be similar in size to the one the Red Bulls are making and to all the ones in Europe.


----------



## Big Texan

michał_;21818475 said:


> nothing new... But how on earth is FC more ridiculous than Real?


FC and Real are just ways to make the US teams feel more traditional.

And this is the best Logo so far for a Soccer Team
Philadelphia Sons of Ben


----------



## king1010

i also read in quite a few places that giants stadium does not meet the fifa requirements width wise


----------



## nyrmetros

en1044 said:


> if they play soccer in it then is BECOMES a soccer stadium...besides, its not wide enough for international play, it is wide enough for MLS


CONCACAF stages the GOLD Cup at Giants Stadium frequently. The Gold Cup is a fully sanctioned FIFA event. Giants stadium is wide enough for international play. It's just not ideal.


----------



## nyrmetros

Burislav said:


> That's true, but I don't understand how can people only root for clubs far away and not for your own club in your own city. If all football fans decided to watch MLS in America, the average attendance would probably have been among the highest in the world, if not THE highest.


Thank you for a great posting !!

MLS is OUR league. These are OUR teams in OUR cities. End of story.


----------



## Indiana Jones

nyrmetros said:


> The decision lies with both the team, the city, and building code inspectors.
> The fans want it, and we are applying pressure to the team to make it happen.


Really hope it happens, I would definitely go. :cheers:


----------



## VelesHomais

Does anyone have a picture of the construction progress on the Red Bull Park NY arena? Couldn't find anything anywhere...

and how about opening a separate thread for it? It's a great arena to watch getting built


----------



## El Mariachi

MRichR said:


> I think there's a confusion on what's meant by "L.A.". You seem to be saying "L.A." as meaning Latin America, whereas the previous poster assumed you meant "Los Angeles" (and since this thread is about soccer in the United States, that makes sense). I agree with Uncle Phil, baseball and football are way more popular in Los Angeles than soccer. Soccer may be popular in pockets, but there are two baseball teams that average over 40,000 over 81 home games a year, and the college teams pull in 80-90,000 every weekend during football season. And when then NFL comes back, it will dominate the scene like it does in almost every other NFL city.


just caught this after my post in regards to his post. When did people start calling Latin America, "L.A." anyway? Whats especially suprising is that guy is supposedly from San Diego!


----------



## en1044

yes back on topic

RFK Stadium

LA vs. DC


----------



## Indiana Jones

^^^ That was a Beckham game right? Sort of a temporary spike in attendance. DC has a nice little supporter group though. They bounce around all match.


----------



## Big Texan

I cant watch FC Dallas v Houston Dynamo because of womans basketball......WTF ESPN2!!!! NO ONE WATCHES OR CARES ABOUT WNBA!


----------



## Benn

I was having the same problem, missed the entire first half, triple overtime WNBA game was some shit to have happen.


----------



## en1044

Big Texan said:


> Great game between DC and LA, but it looked like there were alllot of DC fans there, place was packed, and this stadium does have a kind of soccer feel to it but DC needs a soccer specific stadium.


the best part about about RFK is the bouncing stands, something i wish they could bring to the new stadium


----------



## Big Texan

en1044 said:


> bouncing stands



whats that?


----------



## en1044

Big Texan said:


> whats that?


rfk's stand that moves into left field to form a soccer field (and football field) isnt really attached to the ground, so the stands can bounce up and down. It was pretty common at Redskins games.


----------



## michał_

We have something similar  Except ours are solid concrete and steel, but still bounce with the fans when the whole stand starts jumping  There was also a clip about Eintracht fans doing that in Broendby with yet another solid stand. That's one reason why I wouldn't support any kind of "bouncing stands".


----------



## VelesHomais

Guys, if you want to discuss the actual football, there is an MLS thread over at the north american skybar: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=189113&page=18

This thread is for discussing stadiums.


----------



## nyrmetros

en1044 said:


> yes back on topic
> 
> RFK Stadium
> 
> LA vs. DC


great pic!


----------



## nyrmetros

any pics from the July 4th MLS celebrations?
Supposedly Colombus Crew stadium was rocking last night.


----------



## Carrerra

I heard Giants Stadium will be torn down in order to make way to parking lot. It's really waste of money to demolish a just-30-year-old stadia with 80K capacity only for parking. Why doesn't Red Bulls keep using the stadia?


----------



## rantanamo

its usually cheaper to tear down a stadium than to maintain it if you want it to remain first class. Especially when its too large for their attendance. Plus they are getting their own stadium


----------



## en1044

Carrerra said:


> I heard Giants Stadium will be torn down in order to make way to parking lot. It's really waste of money to demolish a just-30-year-old stadia with 80K capacity only for parking. Why doesn't Red Bulls keep using the stadia?


Why would the Red Bulls use an old outdated stadium that is too big for them...and as you are so eager to say, too small for international games? Its kind of dumb to have two 80,000 seat stadiums right next to each other...parking is too important.


----------



## coexist

Carrerra said:


> I heard Giants Stadium will be torn down in order to make way to parking lot. It's really waste of money to demolish a just-30-year-old stadia with 80K capacity only for parking. Why doesn't Red Bulls keep using the stadia?


The Red Bulls aren't the primary tenants of Giants Stadium - the Giants and Jets are. They're building a new stadium that holds around 82,500 in the parking lot of Giants Stadium as a replacement for Giants Stadium, so the old stadium has to come down.


----------



## Carrerra

Parking is too important? :lol::lol::lol: New York Giants and New York Jets altogether have only 16 home games a year. In *349* non match days, what are they going to do with the additional parking lot which used to be GS Stadium? Do you think it will be always full in non match days? Why don't you see the neighborhood of the new meadowlands stadium through Google Earth? I doubt the stadium's owner has even the least common sense hno:


----------



## matthemod

Carrerra said:


> Parking is too important? :lol::lol::lol: New York Giants and New York Jets altogether have only 16 home games a year. In *349* non match days, what are they going to do with the additional parking lot which used to be GS Stadium? Do you think it will be always full in non match days? Why don't you see the neighborhood of the new meadowlands stadium through Google Earth? I doubt the stadium's owner has even the least common sense hno:


You're being too harsh here, transport by car has always been an integral part of U.S. society, due to the country being so large. It's understandable in the context of a European, or Asian stadium design when there is not as much land available. In my opinion, the majority of people here (England) who attend football matches are within relative walking distance or use public transport, whereas in America the primary form of transport is the car. And in doing so requires parking spaces. It's just the way it is there, learn to understand it.


----------



## Carrerra

For your understanding, these are the photos taken at different dates, as you can guess from the construction status of the new stadium. Even when the land is taken up by two stadiums - one is already built and the other is u/c - at the same time, there is more empty space than full one in parking lot and this is very likely to be common scene in non match days in the area. 

In this situation, they are planning to demolish a 82.5K stadia just for parking. Do you think that makes sense? I really doubt they did even the lowest level of feasibility study for the demolition.


----------



## dudu24

Does no one use public transport to get to the games in USA?


----------



## coexist

The parking lots aren't meant to be filled on non-game days though. They're there simply to fit all the cars that come in when there are events at the stadium. Other than to go to events at the arena, the stadium, or the racetrack, nobody really goes to the Meadowlands, nor is there any reason to. And generally, all three of those have basically seperate parking lots (with some overlap), so they don't interfere with each other on days where multiple venues there are operating.

There's no reason to have an old 80,000 seat stadium right next to a new 82,500 seat stadium. Plus, that new stadium will require slightly more parking than the old stadium had before construction began, so to fit that extra parking, Giants Stadium needs to come down.


----------



## coexist

dudu24 said:


> Does no one uses public transport to get to the games in USA?


For ballparks and arenas in cities, you'll see some people using public transportation to get to games, especially in New York, Boston, Chicago, Washington, and Philadelphia (and probably San Francisco). But for football games, generally no. These venues still require large amounts of parking, though, since cars are the primary means of getting to almost every sports venue in the US. However, most football stadiums are on the outskirts of cities, without good public transportation, and tailgating is a central feature of football culture - people would rather drive to a football game even if they could take a train in, just so they could tailgate and hang out with fellow fans.

As for Giants Stadium, there is zero public transportation to it, really, so everyone has to drive for the most part. That's somewhat of a problem in Metro NYC, considering 70% of people living in NYC don't have cars, but everyone outside of the city does, so the Giants and the Jets often have a hard time attracting people from the City to their games (it doesn't help that Giants Stadium is in New Jersey), but they still sell-out just about every game (except for a few recent Jets games, since the Jets have been absolutely terrible).

They are linking the new Stadium up with some public transportation that runs into NYC, but even after that happens, the overwhelming majority of people will drive there.


----------



## dudu24

Heh, interesting.. In Europe usually main reason to pick some location is easy access with public transport. Different culture i guess


----------



## Benn

the last year or two I have usually taken the train to the dome for Vikings games, but downtown Minneapolis has limited parking, and the train stops right at the stadium, so for some of us it's pretty slick to use mass transit to get to football games. I understand the new stadium will have direct access to a rail system before long. But for a lot of people tailgating is hugely important, I know it sounds weird to a lot of people, but barbequeing in freezing cold parking lot and tossing a football around is a lot fun with a great festive atmosphere. In Kansas City and Buffalo it's an art form, just all kinds of great, something I wish we had a little more of in Minneapolis.


----------



## en1044

Carrerra said:


> For your understanding, these are the photos taken at different dates, as you can guess from the construction status of the new stadium. Even when the land is taken up by two stadiums - one is already built and the other is u/c - at the same time, there is more empty space than full one in parking lot and this is very likely to be common scene in non match days in the area.
> 
> In this situation, they are planning to demolish a 82.5K stadia just for parking. Do you think that makes sense? I really doubt they did even the lowest level of feasibility study for the demolition.


Do you even think about what you say? Why would you leave a stadium just sitting around collecting dust. When the New Meadowlands opens, old Giants stadium will have no tenants. It would be cheaper to just demolish it. As the other posters said, if you dont live here then you dont understand.


----------



## nyrmetros

Carrerra said:


> I heard Giants Stadium will be torn down in order to make way to parking lot. It's really waste of money to demolish a just-30-year-old stadia with 80K capacity only for parking. Why doesn't Red Bulls keep using the stadia?


NJSEA owns the stadium. Metrostars and NJSEA and Metrostars fans HATE the NJSEA. No deal. Plus in Harrison we can take a subway to the game !! And drink in the 30 bars in Harrison!


----------



## nyrmetros

dudu24 said:


> Does no one use public transport to get to the games in USA?


This country hates public transportation. The oil and car barrons snuffed out the railroad barrons.  Only cities built in the early 1900's gave a damn about public transit.


----------



## Benn

Some cities are really starting to come around, Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis, Phoenix, Denver, Houston, Charlotte all have and/or are putting in light rail. Most of the cities in California have some form of local/commuter rail (BART, Caltrain, San Diego Trolley, LA metro). And this is not mentioning all of the east coast cities with major subway systems and the L in Chicago. Portland and Seattle have commuter systems, Minneapolis will have one opening next year, and should have 3 LRT lines (one more by 2014) and 2 commuter lines operating by 2020. California has a major high speed rail plan that could get under way in the next couple of years. This isn't to say that we are anywhere near European standards, but we do have a few well thought out, effective mass transit systems. 
And with $5 gallon gas it's a good thing more people are starting to see the light.


----------



## koolio

nyrmetros said:


> NJSEA owns the stadium. Metrostars and NJSEA and Metrostars fans HATE the NJSEA. No deal. Plus in Harrison we can take a subway to the game !! And drink in the 30 bars in Harrison!


Metrostars? I think you missed it when the team was sold to Red Bull corporation :lol:


----------



## Benn

Or he is bitter and can't stand the fact they are named for an energy drink, it's kind of a new low in sports to have teams named directly after corporations.


----------



## hngcm

Carrerra said:


> Parking is too important? :lol::lol::lol: New York Giants and New York Jets altogether have only 16 home games a year. In *349* non match days, what are they going to do with the additional parking lot which used to be GS Stadium? Do you think it will be always full in non match days? Why don't you see the neighborhood of the new meadowlands stadium through Google Earth? I doubt the stadium's owner has even the least common sense hno:


Like you said, there are only 16 home games, why would they need two stadiums? They're not going to use the old stadium for anything, so it's just going to collect dust, not to mention the fact that it costs a couple million dollars to keep it in good condition. Now if they turn it into a parking lot, they can at least get a couple of thousands of dollars from the extra parking. 

As for why the "Metrostars" wouldn't use the stadium, it's just too big for them. It's not good for atmosphere when a stadium is half-full. Their new, 30k stadium will be a lot better for atmosphere. There's also the fact that they wouldn't own the old giants stadium and so they would have to lease it as well as share a portion of the gate/concessions money. There's a reason why MLS is encouraging every team to build their own stadium, so they can be more profitable.


----------



## nyrmetros

koolio said:


> Metrostars? I think you missed it when the team was sold to Red Bull corporation :lol:


Oh, believe me, I missed nothing. hno:


----------



## nyrmetros

Atmosphere is lost in a 80, 000 seat morgue.

http://www.vimeo.com/866714

http://www.vimeo.com/871989


----------



## Bigmac1212

nyrmetros said:


> Atmosphere is lost in a 80, 000 seat morgue.
> 
> http://www.vimeo.com/866714
> 
> http://www.vimeo.com/871989


When the Red Bulls move into their intimate new home, that house will be a rockin.

I wonder if a NCAA DIvision 1 (American) Fooball Championship Subdivision (FCS, formerly I-AA, like Appalacian State) could use these MLS stadiums as ideas for a new facility.


----------



## hngcm

^^ I doubt they would let those teams tear up the field...(MLS season runs through 10/26).


----------



## nyrmetros

Is there any mass transit via rail to Chester from Philly ?


----------



## GunnerJacket

krudmonk said:


> Arsenhole isn't first-rate. They didn't win the Premiership last year. Looks like you should find a new bandwagon.


So it's championships or bust for what constitutes a first rate club, then, eh? And you're accusing _him_ of being a bandwagon fan!?! At least the lad went to school in Arsenal's backyard, providing more connection then 3/4 the fans of ManU or Chelski. 

However...


RPM said:


> As far as supporting a European team instead of a MLS team, why should I support a second rate product.


Don't go that route or you're risking the glory-chasing status krudmonk is insinuating. While MLS lacks overall quality it demands some respect as THE local league. Particularly given its youth and obstacles in luring casual sports fans, any fan of soccer in the US should at least give it respect and attention. I'm a Gooner first, MLS fan second, because of established loyalties. But I still greatly support the league want it to do better and proudly promote/defend the MLS as deserving of its shot. The Premiership had to earn its way in the world once, too.


----------



## Big Texan

RPM said:


> As far as supporting a European team instead of a MLS team, why should I support a second rate product.


Sorry America Actually develops there teams from rookies up where as your Chelsi, ManU, Millan and Real Madrid teams try to buy the best players like The Yankees. 

Better to earn a championship then Buy one.


----------



## GunnerJacket

nyrmetros said:


> Is there any mass transit via rail to Chester from Philly ?


I know there is an Amtrak route that runs from Philly to Newark, but I doubt that offers the scheduling convenience or cost efficiency of a traditional SEPTA line. I thought there were some long-term plans to establish this connection, either via rail or trolley, but have not been able to find that on the net. Ask the Sons of Ben supporters group or the Philly page at BigSoccer.


----------



## nyrmetros

A trolley would be great for the stdaium!


----------



## krudmonk

GunnerJacket said:


> So it's championships or bust for what constitutes a first rate club, then, eh? And you're accusing _him_ of being a bandwagon fan!?! At least the lad went to school in Arsenal's backyard, providing more connection then 3/4 the fans of ManU or Chelski.


I root for an MLS side and was merely taking his sorry logic to the inevitable extreme.


----------



## Sea Toby

The problem I have with British football is the few teams that win over long stretches of time. With 30 teams, over 30 years there should be 15 different winners, not 5. With 30 teams, over 60 years every team should have won the league once, not 10. In America. its hard for a team to repeat. While its done, its difficult to do so. You need an amateur draft, spreading the young talent around the league, giving every team the ability to wisely develop their teams. The second tier league should act as a minor league to a major league franchise. While they may never see a major league team, these fans can see the young talent develop to major leaguers. A salary cap will prevent a few teams buying up the free agents. Free agents are players who have played out their contracts. They can either resign with the major league team or attempt to market themselves freely. Teams should swap players without cash incentives. Spending money to other teams to buy players from your team, whether major or minor league, is a waste of money. You might even be able to afford new stadiums with the nicer amenities if you didn't waste your money on buying players. It should be more like lend-lease, not cash on the barrelhead.


----------



## dudu24

Sea Toby said:


> While the British Premiere League has a lot of great old stadiums, the vast majority don't even hold 40k fans. Considering the history, you would think they would all be playing in stadiums as large as 50k. But since there are only 4-6 teams with a chance, by the way the same 4-6 teams have a chance of winning the trophy, I now understand why so many of your old stadiums are small. The clubs don't draw well because their teams don't do well. And since they don't draw well, why build new stadiums?
> 
> Of course the few teams that win the trophies do draw well, and have outgrown their small stadiums. Unfortunately, since money is so important to acquire your players, you don't build new stadiums to pay the players. The players are more important.


 Seems to me that you don't quite get it how it works in Europe... most of the people support local team, it doesn't matter in which league they are, for example Chelsea, one of the richest team in Europe, team full of stars is just average (at best) London team in terms of fan base. (Many lower league clubs have FAR bigger fan base and support) You are looking it too much trough North American franchised system where whole country supports "established, fix" teams, theres no relegation, promotion... its different sports world and system and its not comparable.


----------



## en1044

dudu24 said:


> Seems to me that you don't quite get it how it works in Europe... most of the people support local team, it doesn't matter in which league they are, for example Chelsea, one of the richest team in Europe, team full of stars is just average (at best) London team in terms of fan base. (Many lower league clubs have FAR bigger fan base and support) You are looking it too much trough North American franchised system where whole country supports "established, fix" teams, theres no relegation, promotion... its different sports world and system and its not comparable.


A "franchise" in American sports is different than a "franchise" as a business. Its just another name for a sports team here.


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## Big Texan

dudu24 said:


> Seems to me that you don't quite get it how it works in Europe... most of the people support local team, it doesn't matter in which league they are, for example Chelsea, one of the richest team in Europe, team full of stars is just average (at best) London team in terms of fan base. (Many lower league clubs have FAR bigger fan base and support) You are looking it too much trough North American franchised system where whole country supports "established, fix" teams, theres no relegation, promotion... its different sports world and system and its not comparable.


no, you have no idea what you are talking about, it is the exact same in the USA. We are fans of the teams near us because we see them all the time, but there are those few that were raised in California, but cheer for the Celtics, or live in Chicago and root for the 49er's, its one of those things that does not make since but it happens. Same happens in Europe, dont act like it doesn't, There have to be Chelsea fans out side of London, There has to be ManU fans outside of Manchester and etc etc etc..... To think there is a huge difference about how fans choose teams in America and Europe is pure blind sidedness on your side my Euro using friend.


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## GunnerJacket

I think dudu's point is that many of those smaller clubs throughout England are in more direct competition with the big names we're all familiar with. Because of the promotion and relegation system it makes it that much more difficult to adopt other teams the way we might here in the States. Doncaster may be divisions below Chelsea but they're part of the same overall association. So while it's true the bigger clubs retain fans who've been transplanted across the country, it's not as natural for fans in England to automatically align themselves with a Premiership side when they have a local club to support with hopes of making it big as well.


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## salaverryo

en1044 said:


> i really think Texas Stadium is the ugliest thing ive ever seen. i mean, honestly. uke:


What's this got to do with soccer? Soccer has never been played (nor will it ever be) in that place, with its pukey artificial turf.


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## nyrmetros

Is it safe to say that many in Europe support their local club, but adopt a big 4 or 5 club as well?


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## berkshire royal

Sea Toby said:


> The problem I have with British football is the few teams that win over long stretches of time. With 30 teams, over 30 years there should be 15 different winners, not 5. With 30 teams, over 60 years every team should have won the league once, not 10. In America its hard for a team to repeat. While its done, its difficult to do so.


From reading a number of your posts you seem to have a misunderstanding about the ENGLISH premier league you seem to have some kind of misunderstanding as to its standing within football/soccer and its history. 

Firstly you have remember that the English Premier League is one of a few select major leagues in Europe in no particular order the Italian, Spanish and even the German leagues as well as the English are traditionally the strongest based upon performances in Europe, there are also strong leagues with strong teams in Holland, Portugal, France, Russia, Turkey, Greece, Ukraine and Scotland. 
In England over the last 30 years there has been 9 different clubs that have won the championship and on 9 occasions did those teams manage to retain the title. Admittedly the last decade has been poor in terms of competition and new champions but it is merely a faze that the league is currently going through. Another example is in Italy where also over the last 30 years there has been 8 different champions with 7 of those teams managing to retain their title. This pattern is common among the other major leagues that I mentioned. My point is that although competition may not be as level and competitive as in North American it is still fierce and it is still a major achievement for a team to retain their championship. You also have to remember that within the league that there is more up for stake than in an NFL or NBA season where it is champions or not champions, within the Premier League and every other league in Europe there are teams fighting for safety from relegation (3 teams EPL), a place in the UEFA Cup (anything from 1-3 teams) and a place in the Champions League (4 teams). You also have other competitions that clubs compete in which are highly prestigious, the FA Cup final is the English equivalent to the Super Bowl although not as prestigious as winning the League title it is still a major title. And as I have already mentioned there are the two European competitions that can be won the Champions League which is the biggest honour a team can win. And there is also the UEFA Cup and there also used to be the Cup Winners Cup which got cut sadly. My point about these is that there are other honours to be won other than the league title and in a way winning these cups can help build a side and build a winning tradition within a cup, what some people forget is that in the 90s Chelsea without Abramovich and his money went from a mid-table team to being a major competitor in the Premier League and that during a period of 5 years won 2 FA Cups, 1 League Cup and the European Cup Winners Cup and Qualified for the champions league on two occasions due to this success the club was able to use the increased funds made by their success and improve the stadium and attract new and greater talent and I am sure that without this success Abramovich would not have come in and made them the major force that they are now. I hope you understand this and questions you have about the above I would be happy to answer.



Sea Toby said:


> You need an amateur draft, spreading the young talent around the league, giving every team the ability to wisely develop their teams. The second tier league should act as a minor league to a major league franchise. While they may never see a major league team, these fans can see the young talent develop to major leaguers. A salary cap will prevent a few teams buying up the free agents. Free agents are players who have played out their contracts. They can either resign with the major league team or attempt to market themselves freely. Teams should swap players without cash incentives. Spending money to other teams to buy players from your team, whether major or minor league, is a waste of money. You might even be able to afford new stadiums with the nicer amenities if you didn't waste your money on buying players. It should be more like lend-lease, not cash on the barrelhead.


In terms of young talent teams have a bit of protection in England in that teams can only sign youngsters within 1 hour drive of that clubs training facility this means that teams have the ability if they find the talent to hold onto them and develop them. It's very much a reward system which can be extremely rewarding for clubs. Some clubs success has been based around their youth programme but it also has its ugly side because once again teams can sell and on occasion are basically forced to do so. 
Some teams do player swaps but it isn't very common as plain and simply teams don't want to lose their best players even for 2/3 average players that might provide the team with more strength in depth. One thing though transfer money can be used for good on occasions with teams investing it in their youth system or off pitch activities teams such as Crewe and Sheffield United have had their success helped greatly by transfer money. The reason that player swapping isn't common is mainly down to the fact that unlike American sports there are less players involved and the league season is also relatively long, due to the nature of it although the team nature is still very important even a slight improvement or loss of talent can have a major impact on a teams performance an example of this that I can give is sadly my team Reading, last season we lost one of our best players and we were unable to find an adequate replacement and although there were many other reasons for our failure this contributed to our fall from 8th place to 18th and relegation. My point is that individuals are more important than in some North American sports. 
How would Man U have done without C Ronaldo? Would Porto have won the Champions League without Deco? Will Zenit continue their recent success without Arshavin? I hope this once again is of help to you once again I would be pleased to answer any questions you have.


----------



## berkshire royal

nyrmetros said:


> Is it safe to say that many in Europe support their local club, but adopt a big 4 or 5 club as well?


I have written about this before in the Fan Emotions maybe this will help you understand



berkshire royal said:


> I think what you two are seeing is a clash of sporting culture. Obviously seeing as I’m not from the US I can’t really talk about fan culture accurately there but I certainly can try and explain it for Europe. What i notice about sport in the US is that generally the clubs are of all very similar size and that the main tradition within the club is the city that they currently reside, also the leagues are very competitive with a new champion regularly so there is generally no stand-alone franchise.
> Whilst in Europe you have certain leagues that are clearly bigger then others and that there are certain clubs that dominate these leagues. Its hard to describe but the best way of putting it is that generally most nations will have 3/4 dominating clubs which are clearly superior both in tradition, history and quality of team compared to the rest of the clubs in that nation examples of this include in Greece where the most popular clubs are Olympiakos, Panathanaikos and AEK and also in turkey where the big two are Galatasaray and Fenerbache and another example is in Portugal where the big clubs are Benfica, Porto and Sporting. But then you get people around Europe who support the European superclubs such as Real Madrid, Manchester United, Barcelona, AC Milan, Chelsea :nuts: and so on and this is despite the fact they may never actually get to watch their team in the flesh. Obviously you get people who support their local team but quite often if their team is poor and don’t compete in the top league they quite often have a second team being generally a bigger club.
> 
> The best way of categorising it is that in the nations with the strongest leagues England, Germany, Spain, Italy, France, Holland are that if a city has a team that competes and/or regularly competes in the top league then that team will be the most popular in that city, but there will still be some who support other clubs and in other cities where the local club isn’t strong they wont be well supported. Then you get second tier nations such as Turkey, Greece, and Portugal where the leagues are less competitive than the bigger nations but as I have mentioned there are some stand-alone clubs where generally the people of that nation will support one of those bigger clubs. And then you get nations where the league offered is of poor standard and generally people will support one of the European super clubs and the team in their city.
> 
> .


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## dudu24

nyrmetros said:


> Is it safe to say that many in Europe support their local club, but adopt a big 4 or 5 club as well?


 No, quite oposite, big clubs and big clubs fans are usually hated more than anyone. Usually ppl claim to "support" foreign club if team they support isn't that big or is in some really lower division. Tho thats more the case in smaller football nations, in top5 leagues amount of gloryhunters as we call em here isn't that big.


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## Bobby3

salaverryo said:


> What's this got to do with soccer? Soccer has never been played (nor will it ever be) in that place, with its pukey artificial turf.


Actually, it has. It was briefly an NASL venue.


----------



## RPM

krudmonk said:


> I root for an MLS side and was merely taking his sorry logic to the inevitable extreme.


So I should support an MLS team even though I feel I have no connection to any of them as opposed to supporting an English team that I do have a connection too. I might be moving to the Seattle area soon so I may choose to support the new Seattle team, but unless that happens I see no reason to support an MLS team.


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## nyrmetros

RPM said:


> So I should support an MLS team even though I feel I have no connection to any of them as opposed to supporting an English team that I do have a connection too. I might be moving to the Seattle area soon so I may choose to support the new Seattle team, but unless that happens I see no reason to support an MLS team.


Seattle is going to be a very well run team. But the lack of a long term stadium plan bothers me.


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## hngcm

nyrmetros said:


> Seattle is going to be a very well run team. But the lack of a long term stadium plan bothers me.


Why does it bother you?

Doesn't the owner also own Qwest field?


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## nyrmetros

hngcm said:


> Why does it bother you?
> 
> Doesn't the owner also own Qwest field?


Yes, the same thing in Foxboro. But you ask anyone who goes to soccer games at Foxboro, they all say the same thing. The place is WAY to big for MLS and it kills the atmosphere. Every Revs fans wants a SSS built in Boston, or at least near an active rail line.

Granted the NFL stadium in Seattle is in a good location from what I hear, but the fact remains that MLS games are not going to generate any self sustaning atmosphere at these NFL stadiums.


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## Sea Toby

In other words, its better to have a full house with 20k capacity than a half full house at 40k capacity. More fans will buy season tickets if the house sells out. The Red Sox with the smallest stadium in baseball usually sells the most season tickets. Much like the effect of season ticket holders for basketball and hockey teams.


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## en1044

Te Rex Sox would sell out anything, the stadium size doesnt matter. Oakland is a better example IMO


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## nyrmetros

Could the Red Sox fill 56, 000 seats every night? Who knows....... The lure of Boston baseball was always the intimacy and atmosphere.


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## fenway58

*yes*



nyrmetros said:


> Could the Red Sox fill 56, 000 seats every night? Who knows....... The lure of Boston baseball was always the intimacy and atmosphere.


:lol:

yes and yes.:cheers:


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## Big Texan

nyrmetros said:


> Could the Red Sox fill 56, 000 seats every night? Who knows....... The lure of Boston baseball was always the intimacy and atmosphere.


seriously?


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Well Red Bull Arena is coming along well. 
Pics from Red Bulls Reader
First steel girder (Yesterday)
















Today


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## Big Texan

no digging?


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## ElVoltageDR

Guess not.


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## Overground

Red Bull Park park is going to be the envy of MLS when it's done. Lucky devils! Of course when Vancouver gets the anticipated MLS franchise:wink2: and builds the planned Waterfront Stadium, it might just be better....j/k.


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## tampasteve

Tampa just announced the plans (but no renderings) for our SSS of the USL-1 Rowdies:

http://blogs.tampabay.com/breakingne...s-stadium.html

Rowdies pick Tampa stadium site

TAMPA -- A group of investors has chosen a site in Town 'N Country for the new Tampa Bay Rowdies soccer stadium, a team official said Wednesday night.

The stadium will be on 18 acres near the Veterans Expressway at Waters Avenue, according to Perry Van Der Beck, a former Rowdies player who is now a marketing official for the team. It will seat 5,500 to start but also have the capacity to be expanded to 15,000 seats. The privately funded stadium would likely be named after a corporate sponsor that has not yet emerged, Van Der Beck told a group at a Brandon Area Youth Soccer League meeting.

The investor group includes Bern's Steak House president David Laxer and other local and out-of-town businessmen.

"They're young, they're aggressive and they're smart," Van Der Beck said of the owners.

The team, which first played in Tampa from 1975 to 1993, will retain the Tampa Bay Rowdies name and sell retro merchandise in its gift shop. The stadium design features seats on a lower level, a mid-level concession area and luxury boxes above. It is unknown whether the group has the funds in hand to build the stadium, which the investors would like to finish in time for a scheduled April 2010 opening.

-- Andrew Meacham, Times Staff Writer


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## Overground

I'm guessing Tampa doesn't have immediate plans to try to get into MLS. Miami seems to be the one that has it's eyes on it. It's great that Tampa is doing this with private money though!


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## tampasteve

We did have an MLS team, the Mutiny but they are gone (bad stadium rental among other problems). Currently MLS has a vendetta against Florida, or so it would seem. Of course there are good reasons to to expand back into our state. But it will be great to have a team here again, especially with their own stadium.

Steve


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## Overground

Ya it was strange how Florida were erased from MLS. What I was wondering about your new stadium, if they had planned to try to get into MLS again soon, they would need to build the 15k to 20k seats now. So I don't think they plan on getting in at all in the near future. Post 2015-18 perhaps.


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## Bobby3

There are advantages to being in the USL if you play your cards right (all of your cards).

I'm glad this Tampa stadium plan is going through.


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## nyrmetros

Metro stadium finaly has beams in the ground after 8 years of talk.


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## SIC

Overground said:


> Red Bull Park park is going to be the envy of MLS when it's done. Lucky devils! Of course when Vancouver gets the anticipated MLS franchise:wink2: and builds the planned Waterfront Stadium, it might just be better....j/k.


Yeah, well I'll take a shack and a championship dynasty (Dynamo/DC) than the best soccer stadium in Jersey. No offense. But it might almost makeup for all the crap they've had to take the last 12 years. Almost.


Anyhoo, most MLS SSS are bleh at best. HDC is good.

Toyota Park isn't bad, but it just lacks something. But honestly I don't care, I go there for the team not the stadium.
I mean otherwise, I would go to Sox games instead of Cubs games.


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## SIC

RPM said:


> Giants Stadium is not in NYC, its in a swamp in New Jersey, and to my knowledge the only way to get there is by car.
> 
> As far as supporting a European team instead of a MLS team, why should I support a second rate product. Besides who would want to support a team called the Red Bulls that has no actual ties to NYC, its a New Jersey team that has never played in New York. The Giants and Jets at least started out in New York.
> 
> Also in many cases people who support South and Central American teams are supporting the teams from their homelands, the teams they have been supporting their whole lives.* I support Arsenal because I went to school for a short time in Islington. there is more to it that just snobbery.*


lol, this totally reminds me of this.

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/03/03/80-the-idea-of-soccer/?cp=67


> Most white people choose a favorite soccer team based on either a study abroad experience or a particularly long vacation to Europe or South America. When they return, they like to tell their friends about how great “football” is and that they are committed to ‘getting more into’ now that they have returned home.


It's funny cause it's true


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## Sea Toby

As an American I have traveled abroad too. Yes, many nations love what we call soccer. But I have also traveled to New Zealand where rugby is king. I have also traveled to Melbourne where Aussie Rules Football is king. I have traveled to Japan where baseball is king. I have traveled to India where field hockey is king. Half the world's population lives in China and India, soccer isn't king everywhere. Without a doubt, hockey is king in Canada. Have you traveled to these locations?

Oh, by the way, the sissie sport of soccer, notice our American women won gold at the Bejing Olympics. Where were the British women? Culture indeed.


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## berkshire royal

> Most white people choose a favourite soccer team based on either a study abroad experience or a particularly long vacation to Europe or South America. When they return, they like to tell their friends about how great “football” is and that they are committed to ‘getting more into’ now that they have returned home.


That sounds like the experience that Randy Lerner had when he went to University in England and started to support Aston Villa.
I think that some of the people who support European or South American clubs in the US might actually be genuine supporters of that club and actually have a real passion for that club if that is the case then they should not be criticised. But I’m also sure that there are many fear whether fans as there are all around the world in any sport. I think it isn't unreasonable for a person to support a team that they choose as long it is genuine it should be accepted. 

I think that sometimes foreign and especially American owners are generalised and criticised a little too much, which is harsh and unfair. It has to be pointed out that Randy Lerner is actually one of the best chairmen in the Premier League he has steadied a massive club in Aston Villa that was sinking rapidly. He has got them performing well once again without lumping debt onto the club and he has made the club much better run and has got in touch with the local community and fans that had started to fall out of love with the club.



Sea Toby said:


> As an American I have traveled abroad too. Yes, many nations love what we call soccer. But I have also traveled to New Zealand where rugby is king. I have also traveled to Melbourne where Aussie Rules Football is king. I have traveled to Japan where baseball is king. I have traveled to India where field hockey is king. Half the world's population lives in China and India, soccer isn't king everywhere. Without a doubt, hockey is king in Canada. Have you traveled to these locations?
> 
> Oh, by the way, the sissie sport of soccer, notice our American women won gold at the Bejing Olympics. Where were the British women? Culture indeed.


Sea Toby some of your comments infuriate me I know you are putting across your point of view and sometimes you are just trying to gain a greater understanding of that subject which is great and is perfectly fine but i wish you would do some research and think about what you are writing because some times you come out with a comment and points which are entirely incorrect and/or just sound a little condescending. 

Firstly in your post I have quoted you say in India field hockey is king that is wrong it is Cricket and by a long way too. In Australia it is a very much multi-sport nation like the US where many sports are equal (Rugby Union, Rugby League, Cricket, Soccer) but if you meant Aussie Rules is the national sport then yes you are right. In Japan many other sports are extremely popular and are gaining more popularity all the time but you are right Baseball is still king and in New Zealand yes Rugby is by a long way the most popular sport. 
Women’s soccer on a world scale in all honesty is not big at all it gains little or no air time on TV and it is not professional unlike the WNBA or the domestic US soccer scene so therefore the US winning it is not a big deal in all honesty. 
And the reason that there is no British team because I don't know I you knew this but there is no British Soccer Team there is the English, Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish national teams and therefore cannot compete at an Olympics as none of these nations are represented at the Olympics and other than England they are strongly against a joint British Olympic team.
I do not many offence by this post and hope you do not take this as being rude i just want to make a point, that you should do a little research before you comment at times.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Boy aren't we just a tad out of topic? Anyway, lemme try and steer it back just a bit. I'm looking forward to seeing RSL Stadium. Its getting closer and closer to opening and its first game is going to be televised on ESPN (against the Red Bulls).


----------



## Sea Toby

Canadian Chocho said:


> ^^ Why no mention of Canada.


Well, he knew I at least got that one right, hockey is the king of Canada. How do I know, just by watching Guy Carbonneau videos on You Tube. My favorite hockey player, ever. And to think he is now the head coach of the Habs. When was the last time a new head coach received a standing ovation when announced by the home team announcer for the first time? Well, Guy got one. This reflects passion.....

At least George Gillette did something right, allowing the GM Bob Gainey, another hockey legend, to name Guy coach...... But, of course, as a Yankee, George isn't qualified to own the Liverpool Reds, and should be tarred and feathered out of town. All because George won't lose, I meant spend all of his money for new players for Liverpool. At least Gillette and Hicks know they new a new stadium to compete financially in the Premiere League, something the previous owner David Moores knew too. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JMXpA7MBug


----------



## berkshire royal

Sea Toby said:


> Well, he knew I at least got that one right, hockey is the king of Canada. How do I know, just by watching Guy Carbonneau videos on You Tube. My favorite hockey player, ever. And to think he is now the head coach of the Habs. When was the last time a new head coach received a standing ovation when announced by the home team announcer for the first time? Well, Guy got one. This reflects passion.....
> 
> At least George Gillette did something right, allowing the GM Bob Gainey, another hockey legend, to name Guy coach...... But, of course, as a Yankee, George isn't qualified to own the Liverpool Reds, and should be tarred and feathered out of town. All because George won't lose, I meant spend all of his money for new players for Liverpool. At least Gillette and Hicks know they new a new stadium to compete financially in the Premiere League, something the previous owner David Moores knew too.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JMXpA7MBug


Ooops I forgot about Canada but that defiantly is a Hockey nation but from what Canadian forumers have told me and from looking at the figures and passion of the fans of TFC it is clear that the sport is becoming much bigger in Canada in fact I reckon it has a better chance of becoming major in Canada than it has in the US. Canada already has produced 2 or 3 players that are of real quality and all honesty are better than anything the US has produced all they need to do now is to actually get these players to represent Canada rather than another nation. 

To be honest I think spending money and putting loans isn't the problem it’s the way that Hicks and Gillett have gone about the situation. Firstly and probably most importantly they have broken a number of their promises which shouldn't have been made in the first place as they were very big statements to make in the first place. The debt is a problem because of the system in England, it was also a problem for Manchester United. All it takes is one disastrous season where they miss out on European Qualification and then it can become a slippery slope and they could become the next Leeds, which is unthinkable for any club. I suggest you look up Leeds United I have noticed you have struggled to understand what the problem with debt in England is and I reckon this is a perfect example of why there is such a huge problem, it’s not your fault mind all the people who have tried explaining it haven’t done a good job and all they have done is criticized foreign owners and the lack of understanding of the English passion which isn’t the right why of explaining the problem. As for debt at my club Reading we were bought out by a multi millionaire over 10 years who promised to get us a new stadium and get us to the Premier League and he managed to do both. But what has become clear is that he has done this through loans to the clubs rather than using his personal wealth but what he did well was keeping it quiet and also building up the club brand and business side so that the club could deal with the debts and loans and maybe this is what Gillett and Hicks should have done. As for American owners they as I have already mentioned it doesn’t come into how qualified they are to own a club or how good they are, Randy Lerner is a terrific chairman and he has done a great job with Villa.


----------



## Knitemplar

Sea Toby said:


> As an American I have traveled abroad too. Yes, many nations love what we call soccer. But I have also traveled to New Zealand where rugby is king. I have also traveled to Melbourne where Aussie Rules Football is king. I have traveled to Japan where baseball is king. I have traveled to India where field hockey is king. Half the world's population lives in China and India, soccer isn't king everywhere. Without a doubt, hockey is king in Canada. Have you traveled to these locations?
> 
> Oh, by the way, the sissie sport of soccer, notice our American women won gold at the Bejing Olympics. Where were the British women? Culture indeed.


well said, Toby. When people say that "Soccer is king' and deride the US for not being so 1 sport-focused, I say they have 'tunnel vision' and narrow lives whereas in the US, we are blessed with a plethora of choices, and they are all thriving with some degree of success.

Your points above only buttress the rather narrow-minded, totally blindered view espoused by some Europeans and SOME South Americans.


----------



## Canadian Chocho

How is football (soccer) sissie? I don't know about you but some of the tackles those guys take look somewhat painful.


----------



## Canadian Chocho

berkshire royal said:


> Ooops I forgot about Canada but that defiantly is a Hockey nation but from what Canadian forumers have told me and from looking at the figures and passion of the fans of TFC it is clear that the sport is becoming much bigger in Canada in fact I reckon it has a better chance of becoming major in Canada than it has in the US. Canada already has produced 2 or 3 players that are of real quality and all honesty are better than anything the US has produced all they need to do now is to actually get these players to represent Canada rather than another nation.


Ahh Hargreaves...he's a douche but I won't lie, he is pretty good. At least he has somewhat of a reason, the CSA seemed to take no notice of him. But him saying that he has nothing of Canadian in him was uncalled for.hno:

As for Judas (Jonathan De Guzman), he's just a glory hunter. If the lure of having your own brother playing along side you on the national team can't get you to play for Canada, then nothing probably will.


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## berkshire royal

^^
I think you have the wrong idea by what I meant in my posts I am a huge sports than and love other sports other than football/soccer and it is the same with many other people in my country its not just the US that celebrates many sports you know, i even try and watch and learn about American sports when I can because I love sport and everything about it and I am sure you would get the same reaction from most Europeans and South Americans but the fact is that my favourite sport is Football. I thinks its great that the US has a load of sports and don’t feel there is anything wrong with that and such diversity should be encouraged and I would love to see soccer being part of that sporting culture one day.
I think what gets us "EUROPEANS" up the wrong way is that only with the US does the sport that we love and cherish get such a battering and gets so many condescending words. I have heard so many stupid disrespectful things about the sport and the people who play and watch the sport and in all honesty it generally comes from people from the US and that is a reality. I'm sure and know that the same things get said back about North American sports but generally it is a reply to one of comments that instigates these sorts of replies. 
But then again what do I know I like soccer I must be poor and live in a communist state and I probably only watch the sport so I can get into a mass brawl :bash:


----------



## Canadian Chocho

I'm going to assume that was directed towards Knitemplar


----------



## berkshire royal

^^
:lol: that is correct.
It's a shame that players do that they seem to lack loyalty nowadays. In Hagreaves case I know that he turned his back on Canada because when he was representing Canada at junior level a team coach told him to give up on playing professionally because he wasn't good enough so due to that he turned his back on Canada when it turned out he was rather good I bet that coach regrets those comments now. As for De Guzman I find that sort of disloyalty disgraceful and it shouldn't be allowed and as far as I know he hasn't got any Dutch blood in him. I would love to see Canada get to the World Cup would be nice to see someone else make it other than US Mexico and Costa Rica every time, but from looking at your WC qualifying group and it looks difficult which I don't normally say about CONCACAF qualifying. 
On topic can someone tell me what's happening with the soccer specific stadium proposals of Kansas City, Houston Dynamo, San Jose Earthquakes and what about New England are they going to continue at Gillette Stadium?


----------



## Canadian Chocho

Canada for 2010! Hell, at least we're leading one of the expected countries to get out of the group!


----------



## aquablue

There are some bitter Americans who won't give soccer a chance b/c of preconcieved notions of the sport due to watching young children play and because these people refuse to really analyze soccer at a high level, instead giving it cursory attention - sissy is not a word I would ever use to describe high level soccer.. it is much more hard hitting then most US sports (baseball, basketball, etc) and injuries are common due to hard tackles. I'm an american and I love the sport. It pains me to see how some americans resort to xenophobic notions such as socialism to ridicule the sport and the fact that the sport is not American or physically weak (what a joke). Thank god these people are on the decline. White Americans will be the minority in 2050, and hispanics (esecpially those from mexican parentage) generally enjoy soccer culture - the United States will change gradually as the population changes. Also, are league will continue to grow which will help our soccer talent...soccer can exist alongside other traditional sports here, there are enough people. It may not be in the top 3-4, but still, it can be a success here.

Europeans should be wise enough to know that America has a large population and many many people enjoy the sport here and do not ridicule it. Just ignore the bad apples and don't label all of use football haters.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

You mean top 3-4 sport in just the US? Of top 3-4 soccer league in the world. Because if you are talking about top 3-4 sport in the US, the MLS is already closing in on the NBA and NHL at least attendance wise. Which is pretty considering that the MLS has less teams than either league and will be expanding in the next two years (Seattle/Philly).


----------



## cubsfan

Didn't see these posted yet... The new design for Philly's stadium in Chester.


----------



## salaverryo

Canadian Chocho said:


> How is football (soccer) sissie? I don't know about you but some of the tackles those guys take look somewhat painful.


Body contact is severely restricted in soccer. Only the shoulder-charge is allowed. Those tackles look worse than they really are, because the players "play-act" (exaggerate) in order to win a foul.


----------



## ØlandDK

cubsfan said:


> Didn't see these posted yet... The new design for Philly's stadium in Chester.


To bad...the old design looked alot better


----------



## Big Texan

it looks like it could be turned into the old design though.


----------



## cubsfan

salaverryo said:


> Body contact is severely restricted in soccer. Only the shoulder-charge is allowed. Those tackles look worse than they really are, because the players "play-act" (exaggerate) in order to win a foul.



I can't remember the team (Croatia?)or player right now but did you see the the Euros when the player was on the sideline getting his head stapled and then went back on the feild? I've yet to see that in the NFL... Eduardo from Arsenal had his leg shattered in half and Eddie Lewis just got laid out the other day with a head to head challenge in Guatemala... 

I've seen more players gushing blood in soccer than any American sport barring hockey... I'd say it's very misleading to say contact is "restricted." Hand balls are "restricted" too... They still happen frequnetly... Also soccer does suffer from the whole "play-acting" thing as you've stated but alot of times those challenges do actually hurt even though they appear not to be serious...

Soccer players being "sissies" is just another way for cocky xenophobic Americans that have probably never watched 90 minutes in their lives to dismiss it as a foreign/homosexual sport, Cuz, "Real Men Play Football!"


----------



## nomarandlee

cubsfan said:


> Didn't see these posted yet... The new design for Philly's stadium in Chester.


That looks pretty nice.


----------



## nyrmetros

cubsfan said:


> Didn't see these posted yet... The new design for Philly's stadium in Chester.


They could have done so much better, IMO.


----------



## dudu24

I don't understand why is 1 stand not connected with other 3. They could have had class Karaiskaki/New Hoffenheim type of stadium.


----------



## berkshire royal

I really hope that they don't go for this design it's a copy of the other MLS SSS the original design was much more original. Does anyone know why the original proposal was dropped?


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Well that's kind of disappointing. The original was something that could rival Red Bull Arena, now it looks just about the same as every other MLS stadium... Hope they reconsider this decision.


----------



## GunnerJacket

dudu24 said:


> I don't understand why is 1 stand not connected with other 3.


The Sons of Ben supporters group could offer more info, but from what I understand that's part of where they were trying to foster some character. That stand may yet be more different in form from the others, plus they wished to offer more views and access to the river front, and the detachment allows the pedestrian flow in that direction. I certainly agree that this is the stand that should be treated differently if that's the route the owners and designers wished to take.


> They could have had class Karaiskaki/New Hoffenheim type of stadium.


Again with the Kariaskaki references. Why do so many people think that place was a trendsetter?


berkshire royal said:


> I really hope that they don't go for this design it's a copy of the other MLS SSS the original design was much more original. *Does anyone know why the original proposal was dropped?*


I'll go out on a limb and say $$$. It's actually not that much different from the original concept drawings. Most of what's changed is the size and shape of the ancillary structures (concessions, etc) and the roof, aka: The elements with the smallest return on revenues. The footprint and configuration of seating is pretty close, so it appears what we have is the leftover pieces after the designer found every way possible to trim costs. Stands to reason given how construction costs have increased since the team was awarded.

Let's keep in mind folks, this is MLS. That they have places of this calibre is fantastic enough. Even if they do often look alike, most low-end football are based on other facilities - There's only so many cheap ways to redesign stands around a soccer pitch. :cheers:


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Eh, yeah that could be a reason. But I guess your right, its good that the MLS is getting soccer specific facilities that actually don't look half bad, even though they're a bit generic. Its something.


----------



## cubsfan

Bigger renderings for a comparison of old & new


----------



## GunnerJacket

^^ Thanks, Cubsfan. This helps illustrate the similarities, including the separation of the far end stand. In fact, I dare say the only differences are:

- Deeper single tier instead of two smaller tiers 
- Roof over just the sides 
- Field built at ground level as opposed to being sunken in

All these changes make sense as a means of cutting cost. I agree the full 360' roof would've been iconic, but this is still someplace I'd love to play! :cheers:


----------



## cubsfan

^^^ I agree Gunner, I like the new one, whatever happens I just hope that they don't have a stage. I hope it's not the temporary seat thing to make way for concerts... I beleive Salt Lake's original plans had 4 sided permanent seating and of course they followed suit and added a stage.


----------



## Big Texan

cubsfan said:


> Bigger renderings for a comparison of old & new


I think the new design can be renovated in the future when soccer attendance is busting the seat limit to look like the old all around design. I think most US soccer stadiums are designed to be able to be expanded apon in the future, if not...man, were they stupid.


----------



## nyrmetros

That rendering doesn't seem to show the roof fully extended over the stands.


----------



## salaverryo

cubsfan said:


> I can't remember the team (Croatia?)or player right now but did you see the the Euros when the player was on the sideline getting his head stapled and then went back on the feild? I've yet to see that in the NFL... Eduardo from Arsenal had his leg shattered in half and Eddie Lewis just got laid out the other day with a head to head challenge in Guatemala...
> 
> I've seen more players gushing blood in soccer than any American sport barring hockey... I'd say it's very misleading to say contact is "restricted." Hand balls are "restricted" too... They still happen frequnetly... Also soccer does suffer from the whole "play-acting" thing as you've stated but alot of times those challenges do actually hurt even though they appear not to be serious...
> 
> Soccer players being "sissies" is just another way for cocky xenophobic Americans that have probably never watched 90 minutes in their lives to dismiss it as a foreign/homosexual sport, Cuz, "Real Men Play Football!"


I used the word "restricted" in the sense that body contact is not allowed by the rulebook. Contrary to what many people think, charging (other than the shoulder-charge) IS illegal. On the other hand, if the refs enforced the rules to the letter they'd have to stop play every 10 seconds or so & call 200 fouls per game.


----------



## Sea Toby

nyrmetros said:


> That rendering doesn't seem to show the roof fully extended over the stands.


Philadelphia or Chester isn't England where it rains every day. Americans are used to rainy weather, the rain usually passes within an hour, and by the end of the game the stadium has dried out. 

Even in Florida where it does rain it seems daily, its only for a hour or so. The lone exception is the Pacific northwest, Seattle and Portland do see a lot of rain almost all day, but during the winter months. During the summer even Seattle can have sunny weather. 

Most of our football stadiums don't have shade so much, as football is played during the fall. The game that requires some shade is baseball during the very hot summer months, especially in the southwest and southeast. But since most games are played at night, or dusk, most of the stadiums face east with home plate located at the westward end of the stadium. If not a roof, the stands provide the shade as the sun sets.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Sea Toby said:


> Philadelphia or Chester isn't England where it rains every day. Americans are used to rainy weather, the rain usually passes within an hour, and by the end of the game the stadium has dried out.
> 
> Even in Florida where it does rain it seems daily, its only for a hour or so. The lone exception is the Pacific northwest, Seattle and Portland do see a lot of rain almost all day, but during the winter months. During the summer even Seattle can have sunny weather.
> 
> Most of our football stadiums don't have shade so much, as football is played during the fall. The game that requires some shade is baseball during the very hot summer months, especially in the southwest and southeast. But since most games are played at night, or dusk, most of the stadiums face east with home plate located at the westward end of the stadium. If not a roof, the stands provide the shade as the sun sets.



Look at Lambeau field and Michigan stadium. Those are giant coverless bowls where it snows and rains with below zero temps. I think american fans are just a little tougher


----------



## matthemod

I wonder perhaps that the actual quality of the render might have had an effect upon how we interpret it. I mean the first one is clearer and looks neat, but the second one just looks a bit grainy.


----------



## SIC

dudu24 said:


> I don't understand why is 1 stand not connected with other 3. They could have had class Karaiskaki/New Hoffenheim type of stadium.


It's cheaper to expand it this way.
That's also why the roof doesn't go all the way around.

It should also help segregate sons of ben from away fans, which is great. Considering the distance between DC and NYC. Man, I'm almost jealous...almost...of the proximity to rivals and away trips.

Not in Chicago, We get the "honor" of taking 5-8 hours trips to Kansas City and Cow-lumbus (I don't like to throw the word hooligan-wannabes in MLS, but if anyone fits it...it's HSH). Which is why I'm semi-rooting for a St Louis team. I wouldn't even have to leave the state.


----------



## SIC

Big Texan said:


> no, you have no idea what you are talking about, it is the exact same in the USA. We are fans of the teams near us because we see them all the time, but there are those few that were raised in California, but cheer for the Celtics, or live in Chicago and root for the 49er's, its one of those things that does not make since but it happens. *Same happens in Europe, dont act like it doesn't, There have to be Chelsea fans out side of London, There has to be ManU fans outside of Manchester and etc etc etc..... To think there is a huge difference about how fans choose teams in America and Europe is pure blind sidedness on your side my Euro using friend.*


Oh yeah, Chelsea built a global fan base all those years in the 2nd division paying off the loans for the bridge. Which is why Chelsea is a total bandwagon team, most of their stateside fans were only wooed in the 21st century.



RPM said:


> So I should support an MLS team even though I feel I have no connection to any of them as opposed to supporting an English team that I do have a connection too. I might be moving to the Seattle area soon so I may choose to support the new Seattle team, but unless that happens I see no reason to support an MLS team.


Vancouver is one of the most likely expansion cities in MLS. Let me guess, you didn't even realize Vancouver had a team*rollseyes*.

Personally, USL is pretty decent for the money and the fans get away with crap because the teams don't have to cater to the soccer mom crowds. Notice, Timbers Army.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jp7q05ieIk


----------



## hngcm

Talk about taking two steps back with the design...


----------



## berkshire royal

Can someone tell me when will the final two expansion places be announced? I would like to see Vancouver get one of the slots the Canadians seem to have a real passion for the sport and on a simple business note seem also to fill their stadiums which looks good for the MLS brand.


----------



## tritown

hngcm said:


> Talk about taking two steps back with the design...


So maybe Chester stadium isn't as good as it was before (though I disagree), I think that this may be the most attractive stadium, present or future, in MLS.

------------------------

Back to Metro Stadium/Red Bull Arena, please give us updates as you find them! I'm hungry for pics!


----------



## ElVoltageDR

tritown said:


> Back to Metro Stadium/Red Bull Arena, please give us updates as you find them! I'm hungry for pics!


Ask and you shall receive:lol: From Redbullsreader.com: "Here are some more pics from the rapidly growing Red Bull Arena. The structure is now up to the fifth level. Level 5 is the second level of Suites and the Broadcast Booths. With these photos ending your day, RBR wishes you all a great Labor Day weekend!! A positive result at DC would make this weekend even better!!"

Pics


----------



## nyrmetros

can't beleive it's actually happening.


----------



## El Mariachi

matthemod said:


> I know it's not strictly relevant to the U.S. but when I was a wee nipper, I was a Man United fan, because they won everything. I remember though, at about age 10 that it was a bit stupid, as despite watching them win regularly on television, and playing some good football while they were at it, I had no real connection to the team. I had never been to Manchester, I had never met the real fans, or experienced a match day at old trafford.
> 
> It was then I started going to see my local side (Gillingham F.C.) and yes, the quality was generally crap, and there were only around 6500 people there, but it was a great atmosphere and you felt truly connected.
> 
> I wonder whether the reason for the apathy towards the MLS in the U.S. is not just because of the lure of the foreign leagues, but because for a lot of people, the "local" team just isn't local. For a country of 300 or so Million there are only what 14 teams? (i'm not certain of the numbers in the USL) but compare that to back home when in a country of 60 million or so, there are 92 professional football league teams (and many more non-league) you can understand what I mean about "local".
> 
> I'm now stationed in Bloomington Indiana at uni, and was genuinely surprised when I attended my first I.U. "soccer" game for the hoosiers. Atleast 3000 people turned up, which is more than a number of teams in "League 2" back in England (don't be fooled, it's actually the 4th tier). It had shown that people will go to football games, with local pride if the available outlet is there, however why should someone who lives for example in Indiana feel obligated to support the Columbus Crew, or the Chicago Fire more than Liverpool or Real Madrid?
> 
> I think the MLS is on the right road, but it's going to take a lot of time to win over the casual football fan.
> 
> P.S. for those Americans who really get agitated, please replace all the "football"s with "soccer"s.


Yeah, I hear ya. Its hard to get behind a team that is even reasonably close. I live about an hour and a half away from going to Chicago Fire game (no team in Milwaukee), but I doubt that I could support them with the same passion that I support the local baseball, football, and basketball teams. 

Supporting the local team, whether its NCAA or just a local football club, is the best way to sow the seeds of soccer in this country. This will be how rivalries develop into things that people care about and will get big enough to care about on t.v. Nobody in the country cares about the Red Bulls playing the Chicago Fire. People would care however if the Red Bulls started playing games against teams based in Queens, Brooklyn, or perhaps Boston/Philly.


----------



## El Mariachi

en1044 said:


> well enjoy the rest of your time there, and make sure you go the the Wisconsin game in November, that place will be a rockin


yeah man. Conference games are always better then earlier in the season where the big teams play lower tier ones.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Judge Phillip Banks said:


> Supporting the local team, whether its NCAA or just a local football club, is the best way to sow the seeds of soccer in this country. This will be how rivalries develop into things that people care about and will get big enough to care about on t.v. Nobody in the country cares about the Red Bulls playing the Chicago Fire. People would care however if the Red Bulls started playing games against teams based in Queens, Brooklyn, or perhaps Boston/Philly.


Well the Red Bulls have a bit of a rivalry with the DC United. Not too bad, although it is a bit far. And they already play with a "Boston" team (the New England Revs). I'm not really sure why they don't really have much of a rivalry though(at least that is what I've observed in the short time I've been following the league).


----------



## El Mariachi

ElVoltageDR said:


> Well the Red Bulls have a bit of a rivalry with the DC United. Not too bad, although it is a bit far. And they already play with a "Boston" team (the New England Revs). I'm not really sure why they don't really have much of a rivalry though(at least that is what I've observed in the short time I've been following the league).


well, I think that teams in the boroughs of NYC would be a huge boost to soccer in the region. Its hard for a city like NYC to get behind one, new team. There are differences between people who live in Queens, Manhattan, and Jersey. Those differences could make for a great rivalry, somewhat similar to the old rivalries of the Brooklyn Dodgers, Yankees, and Giants.


----------



## señor cara de papa

Judge Phillip Banks said:


> I dont understand American born soccer fans being supporters of foreign teams in South America or Europe. These people, to me, seem like a bunch of elitists that think they are cool for supporting things that most Americans have no clue about. I can maybe understand if you are an immigrant from one of these countries.


it´s just like mexicans that support american football teams in the US, we have our own league over here, but just not as good as yours. and you gotta admit that a few years ago MLS wasn´t better than crappy central american leagues so a fan base for euros developed


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Judge Phillip Banks said:


> well, I think that teams in the boroughs of NYC would be a huge boost to soccer in the region. Its hard for a city like NYC to get behind one, new team. There are differences between people who live in Queens, Manhattan, and Jersey. Those differences could make for a great rivalry, somewhat similar to the old rivalries of the Brooklyn Dodgers, Yankees, and Giants.


True, which is why I'm guess the MLS is considering a new franchise in NYC. The only problem is where that franchise would play. Probably won't be in Manhattan for sure, could be in the Bronx, and much more highly probably in Queens and Brooklyn.


----------



## El Mariachi

señor cara de papa said:


> it´s just like mexicans that support american football teams in the US, we have our own league over here, but just not as good as yours. and you gotta admit that a few years ago MLS wasn´t better than crappy central american leagues so a fan base for euros developed


really? Didnt know that American football was popular down there, nor did I know they had their own leagues.


----------



## El Mariachi

ElVoltageDR said:


> True, which is why I'm guess the MLS is considering a new franchise in NYC. The only problem is where that franchise would play. Probably won't be in Manhattan for sure, could be in the Bronx, and much more highly probably in Queens and Brooklyn.


Queens seems like a better locale for a team. More diversity there it seems.


----------



## elhooligan

Judge Phillip Banks said:


> really? Didnt know that American football was popular down there, nor did I know they had their own leagues.


Yup it actualy has a 100 year history its Called ONEFA or something. Veracruz by US sailors i believe. Its mostly a universities that play


----------



## nyrmetros

Judge Phillip Banks said:


> I think that if you have a local team, you should support it, even if there is less talent. I mean, what is the fun in supporting Barcelona or Liverpool? Especially if you live in an American city with no connection to communities of either of these teams? Part of being a fan is connecting with other fans of that team. Drinking with them in bars and talking about the game at work.


thanx for speaking the truth.


----------



## El Mariachi

elhooligan said:


> Yup it actualy has a 100 year history its Called ONEFA or something. Veracruz by US sailors i believe. Its mostly a universities that play


Very intersting. Thanks for posting. Not to get too off topic, but would the NFL be supported in Mexico?




nyrmetros said:


> thanx for speaking the truth.


No prob. :cheers:


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Judge Phillip Banks said:


> Queens seems like a better locale for a team. More diversity there it seems.


Yeah I also like it more than any other borough. It might not be too late to build a stadium around Flushing, with all the redevelopment going on with CitiField. Of course they'd already planned a ton of new residential and commercial buildings, so it might be tricky, but you never know.


----------



## señor cara de papa

Judge Phillip Banks said:


> Very intersting. Thanks for posting. Not to get too off topic, but would the NFL be supported in Mexico?
> 
> 
> 
> No prob. :cheers:


 from wikipedia:


> The first regular season NFL game played outside the United States was held on October 2, 2005 at Estadio Azteca in Mexico City before an NFL regular-season record of 103,467 fans. The Arizona Cardinals defeated the San Francisco 49ers, 31-14.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Bowl

regular season matches have some viewers but the superbowl has a lot of spectators here


----------



## El Mariachi

ElVoltageDR said:


> Yeah I also like it more than any other borough. It might not be too late to build a stadium around Flushing, with all the redevelopment going on with CitiField. Of course they'd already planned a ton of new residential and commercial buildings, so it might be tricky, but you never know.


I like the idea of a stadium having a neighorhood feel.....something that gives baseball stadiums an edge over our other sports fields. You dont see too many urban soccer stadiums in the U.S.


----------



## El Mariachi

señor cara de papa said:


> from wikipedia:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Bowl
> 
> regular season matches have some viewers but the superbowl has a lot of spectators here


Yeah, I heard about that game...but people were saying that all those people showed up because of some youth soccer game that was going on beforehand. 

It would be cool to put a team down in Mexico somewhere, perhaps Monterrey or Mexico City. Although, I think its down the list after L.A. and Toronto at this point. Maybe Mexico City and London can come in as expansion teams in the near future.


----------



## El Mariachi

nyrmetros said:


> They have a chance to make something iconic....... don't blow it!


America should set the bar with our new soccer stadiums. Too many of them, as has been pointed out, are unoriginal---and plain boring. We should avoid trying to half ass some European stadiums and use some of that baseball stadium creativity.


----------



## Canadian Chocho

I blame Rosetti.


----------



## Benn

I blame AEG, they are the ones demanding stage in one end of a horseshoe layout for all of teams they have a stake in (which is most of them). Rossetti did a pretty good job with HDC and Red Bull Park will look good, if suspiciously like the Hypo Arena. This is different, but far from inspired, if Rossetti really had their way I am sure it would be quite different, and probably something you and I would prefer to this.


----------



## nyrmetros

yea, AEG demands a stage built into all their stadiums that came after the HDC. The Hunt group has done the same with Dallas, and Destroying the North end of C-Bus.


----------



## Big Texan

Hey, That Stage in Pizza Hut Park in Frisco (Home of the FC Dallas) makes that place an amazing venue for concerts. I saw MUSE there during Edge Test 2006. Its a good venue for soccer and concerts.


----------



## tritown

OK 

You know better than I do; I've never even been to a SSS before. Only thing about PHP is that it is soooooooooo far away from town.


----------



## nyrmetros

tritown said:


> OK
> 
> You know better than I do; I've never even been to a SSS before. Only thing about PHP is that it is soooooooooo far away from town.


Yea a lot of MLS stadiums are inthe middle of nowhere with no public transport.

With the new Metrostars stadium you can take an actual subway PATH line from either midtown or downtown Manhattan. And there are like 30 bars in Harrison!


----------



## Bobby3

Thankfully Houston are pushing hard for a stadium in Houston proper.

Next year Texas will have 8 (?) teams in the top 4 levels, they should play some sort of State cup. It'd give the top teams a chance to use young players in a competitive contest.


----------



## JYDA

I think Toronto has shown the merits of a downtown stadium. I know it's more costly but these suburban stadiums are struggling for attendance due to being out of sight and out of mind from the metropolitan areas.


----------



## nomarandlee

^^ Yea, I contend that the Chicago Fire really dropped the ball by not getting their stadium near downtown. The town of Bridgeview put in some extra perks for them but I think they were shortsighted in their long term approach in getting a stadium that is near downtown and near public transit. 

Even though I am not the biggest soccer fan I would have likely gone to a few games if it had been near downtown but I don't care to drive out to f'n Bridgeview, which ain't the greatest locale to go see a game.


----------



## nyrmetros

nomarandlee said:


> ^^ Yea, I contend that the Chicago Fire really dropped the ball by not getting their stadium near downtown. The town of Bridgeview put in some extra perks for them but I think they were shortsighted in their long term approach in getting a stadium that is near downtown and near public transit.
> 
> Even though I am not a big soccer fan I would have likely been to a few games if it had been near downtown by I care to drive out to f'n Bridgeview, which ain't very great, to go see a game.


Agreed. My friend was just in Chicago recently for the NY - Chicago game, and the trip out to Bridgview from downtown was terrible. In t erms of semi niche sports, suburban stadium really does equate to out of sight/ out of mind.


----------



## JYDA

The worst is FC Dallas. Their stadium is in Frisco and just take peak on a map at where that is. They're able to turn a profit due to all the (american) football games and concerts it hosts but the stadium and the team is out of sight and out of mind to people in Dallas. This is why I don't support expansion bids like Ottawa and St. Louis. They all want to make the same mistakes. MLS needs to go the route of:

Vancouver (downtown waterfront stadium)
Portland (downtown stadium) 
NY2 (in the densely populated boroughs)
Miami (Orange Bowl site close to downtown)
Montreal (SSS 2 subway stops from downtown)

and hats off to Houston for pursuing a downtown stadium. They already have a good fanbase and with a downtown stadium they'd have a full house every week.


----------



## Big Texan

JYDA said:


> The worst is FC Dallas. Their stadium is in Frisco and just take peak on a map at where that is. They're able to turn a profit due to all the (american) football games and concerts it hosts but the stadium and the team is out of sight and out of mind to people in Dallas.


Um.... Not true. I live in Dallas, People in Dallas are very aware of FC Dallas in Frisco. The Dallas North Toll Way runs right next to it and make it easy to get there. I would like it more if it was in Downtown Dallas, but god, getting to it in Downtown would have been worse then trying to get where it is now. Im a Hoops fan, former Burn, and we have good showings.


----------



## TexasBoi

It needs to be somewhere in Dallas proper though, not Frisco. I alwayd did like they were moving to a new stadium. But I never did care for them moving to Frisco. Houston is doing it right. They do not want it anywhere but downtown or at least very very close to downtown. Hopefully they get that built.


----------



## Big Texan

I dont see why they didn't stay at the Cotton Bowl. It was downtown, next to a communities and a future DART station, this would allow more low income and Hispanics (not trying to be racist) and love to watch soccer to go to the games.


----------



## krudmonk

Big Texan said:


> I dont see why they didn't stay at the Cotton Bowl. It was downtown, next to a communities and a future DART station, this would allow more low income and Hispanics (not trying to be racist) and love to watch soccer to go to the games.


Why would they stay and pay rent forever? Plus, I think the field was too narrow, like the horseshoe in Columbus.


----------



## Bobby3

The Cotton Bowl, before it's current revamp, could fit a soccer field fine.

The rent was killing them though.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

I heard an interesting interview with Drew Carey (part owner of the Seattle Sounders) on World Soccer Daily. I recommend it for everyone here, lots of info on what the Sounders are thinking of doing and the relationship they have with the Seattle Seahawks.


----------



## El Mariachi

ElVoltageDR said:


> I heard an interesting interview with Drew Carey (part owner of the Seattle Sounders) on World Soccer Daily. I recommend it for everyone here, lots of info on what the Sounders are thinking of doing and the relationship they have with the Seattle Seahawks.


Drew Carey.....as in the pudgy comedian Drew Carey?


----------



## hngcm

Judge Phillip Banks said:


> Drew Carey.....as in the pudgy comedian Drew Carey?


Yes, he's a big soccer fan and a season ticket holder for the Galaxy.


----------



## krudmonk

hngcm said:


> Yes, he's a big soccer fan and a season ticket holder for the Galaxy.


No, he's part of the Seattle group.


----------



## nyrmetros

krudmonk said:


> No, he's part of the Seattle group.


Yes, he has been a big Galaxy fan is has been a season ticket holder with the Galaxy for several years. Of course that will change when Seattle comes in.


----------



## El Mariachi

why the hell isnt he pushing for a Cleveland team? What connections does he have to Seattle?


----------



## Canadian Chocho

MAybe because he knows that Cleveland would fail. Ohio is a gridiron state. Plus, Cleveland isn't in the best economic situation atm.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

I'm guessing that its because no one is really interested in starting a franchise in Cleveland. Also since he's a Hollywood guy he hooked up with Joe Roth (Majority owner, also founder of Revolution Studios and previous chairman at Walt Disney Studios and 20th Century Fox studios).


----------



## Bobby3

Yea, Cleveland would work (and does) for the USL. But not MLS.


----------



## SIC

nomarandlee said:


> ^^ Yea, I contend that the Chicago Fire really dropped the ball by not getting their stadium near downtown. The town of Bridgeview put in some extra perks for them but I think they were shortsighted in their long term approach in getting a stadium that is near downtown and near public transit.
> 
> Even though I am not the biggest soccer fan I would have likely gone to a few games if it had been near downtown but I don't care to drive out to f'n Bridgeview, which ain't the greatest locale to go see a game.


Where exactly would you put them in downtown Chicago?
Theres no unused patch of land in downtown Chicago that isn't spoken and owned by someone. The only place I can think of is right next to river and rooselvelt but that land is already owned by developers.

Also, think of the huge deal it's been to put the kids museum in grant park. Although......the best scenario if anyone had a large overarching plan for Chicago (No one does, check out the olympic stadium/NSF fiasco) they would have put the stadium where the concert pavilion is on northernly island. But then they probably wouldn't have gotten any of the parking money, which is a big source of revenue.

Although I don't think it's hurt them, they have one of the better medians in the league. They had 17,000 last Sunday going head to head with the Bears home opener. Last night they had 20k (a sellout) to see the David Beckham Experience.

I take the CTA there every game from logan square. it takes under an hour to get to Midway. It's not that bad and if I had a car...well it's a lot less. It's a half mile from the city limits, you act like it's in Naperville or something. :lol:


----------



## nyrmetros

Drew Cary knows that Cleveland and MLS are not in the plans.


----------



## El Mariachi

SIC said:


> Where exactly would you put them in downtown Chicago?
> Theres no unused patch of land in downtown Chicago that isn't spoken and owned by someone. The only place I can think of is right next to river and rooselvelt but that land is already owned by developers.
> :


Northerly Island would have been a dramatic location.


----------



## SIC

Judge Phillip Banks said:


> Northerly Island would have been a dramatic location.


Yes, except only Daley knew he was going to close Meigs Field in the middle of the night. Seriously, I just don't like when people act like it's the Fire's fault they don't have something like that. Because it's not, they're not stupid...well at least Peter Wilt isn't. He knew better than any of us the economic and political reality and he made the best choice he could at the time. But, it wasn't due to incompetence or laziness. If you talk to him about it or even read his posts online you get a good idea.

But anyway, if you like the team....go see them. If you don't? Well don' go and if the location is mildly incovenient and you're too lazy to go out of you way...then...tough.

Maybe it's because I live on the north side and take the CTA for every home game. But I honestly have very little patience for people that complain that the drive to bridgeview from lakeview on a saturday afternoon is too long. Boo-fricking hoo. Theres a good number of people who bike there each game and they're not complaining.

The Fire have consistently been one of the better supported teams in the stands in MLS. There not suffering due to the location since it's not really a suburban stadium. They're basically southwest side team. The city limits are just across the bridge along Harlem.

I've noticed that most of the complaints come from people don't leave their little northside yuppie enclave of choice. Most of them transplants, who wouldn't be caught dead on South Side apart from Hyde Park. So to them Midway might as well be the suburbs, but it's really not.

I think Chicagoans are really spoiled when it comes to their sports teams and their stadiums. They're all basically in the core of the city...well because the land they're built on was acquired by the team 80+ years ago or inherited for free by the city (Bears).

But where the Fire place is no worse than what you see in most American cities and is in fact has above-average links to P.T. than most of them. I've heard the nightmare stories about giants stadium and foxboro.


----------



## nyrmetros

Giants STadium just shut down direct bus service from Midtown to the Stadium. Now you have to take a train from Penn to somewhere, and then transfer to a bus.


----------



## El Mariachi

SIC said:


> Yes, except only Daley knew he was going to close Meigs Field in the middle of the night. Seriously, I just don't like when people act like it's the Fire's fault they don't have something like that. Because it's not, they're not stupid...well at least Peter Wilt isn't. He knew better than any of us the economic and political reality and he made the best choice he could at the time. But, it wasn't due to incompetence or laziness. If you talk to him about it or even read his posts online you get a good idea.
> 
> But anyway, if you like the team....go see them. If you don't? Well don' go and if the location is mildly incovenient and you're too lazy to go out of you way...then...tough.
> 
> Maybe it's because I live on the north side and take the CTA for every home game. But I honestly have very little patience for people that complain that the drive to bridgeview from lakeview on a saturday afternoon is too long. Boo-fricking hoo. Theres a good number of people who bike there each game and they're not complaining.
> 
> The Fire have consistently been one of the better supported teams in the stands in MLS. There not suffering due to the location since it's not really a suburban stadium. They're basically southwest side team. The city limits are just across the bridge along Harlem.
> 
> I've noticed that most of the complaints come from people don't leave their little northside yuppie enclave of choice. Most of them transplants, who wouldn't be caught dead on South Side apart from Hyde Park. So to them Midway might as well be the suburbs, but it's really not.
> 
> I think Chicagoans are really spoiled when it comes to their sports teams and their stadiums. They're all basically in the core of the city...well because the land they're built on was acquired by the team 80+ years ago or inherited for free by the city (Bears).
> 
> But where the Fire place is no worse than what you see in most American cities and is in fact has above-average links to P.T. than most of them. I've heard the nightmare stories about giants stadium and foxboro.


I am not complaining, but having a major urban SSS could have really set the bar for all others built in the U.S./Canada. The idea of having a Wrigley Field-eqsue neighborhood stadium is more attractive. 

I have alot of respect for Peter Wilt. He fought tooth and nail to get a team here in Milwaukee. The city was not hospitable for his ideas for an urban stadium in the downtown area, unfortunaley, and now the chances of getting an MLS franchise are very slim. Was actually planning to go Fire games because of this. Might start next year.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Judge Phillip Banks said:


> why the hell isnt he pushing for a Cleveland team? What connections does he have to Seattle?


As I recall, he was not the one who started the bid for a Seattle team. It was the ownership group of the Seattle USL Sounders that worked to bring MLS to Seattle. He just wanted to be involved with the ownership and management of a new team, and this was his first opportunity. The ownership group also includes Paul Allen (Microsoft's co founder) who also owns the Seahawks and Trail Blazers.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

That is correct. He was considering buying a team, but when he heard how much it cost he changed his mind:lol:


----------



## El Mariachi

BoulderGrad said:


> As I recall, he was not the one who started the bid for a Seattle team. It was the ownership group of the Seattle USL Sounders that worked to bring MLS to Seattle. He just wanted to be involved with the ownership and management of a new team, and this was his first opportunity. The ownership group also includes Paul Allen (Microsoft's co founder) who also owns the Seahawks and Trail Blazers.


Well, I am glad that Seattle got a team in the end. The NBA screwed the city.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Yeah, I guess its nice consolation. BTW your avatar and sig pain me... OH METS WHY?!?!


----------



## nyrmetros

MLS team expansions have gone up in price significantly the last few times around.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Yeah it went from around 10 to 20 to now 40-50mil. That's pretty steep if you consider how much money a buyer would have. They'd also have to get some sort of stadium contract/build a stadium, so buying an expansion team is real serious business.


----------



## nyrmetros

yea big bucks indeed


----------



## nyrmetros

Any pics from the opener of Salt Lake's new stadium?


----------



## ramvid01

It opens next thursday when the red bulls play there


----------



## ElVoltageDR

nyrmetros said:


> Any pics from the opener of Salt Lake's new stadium?


Its official name is Rio Tinto Stadium


----------



## nyrmetros

ramvid01 said:


> It opens next thursday when the red bulls play there


oh crap. haha. I knew that even though I posted that. lol


----------



## Raymondzhydra

wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwww you have got some really nice soccer stadiums!!!! the new RFK looks sweet and is defintely my favorite.


----------



## soup or man

^ New? RFK is about 40 years old. Oh..you mean the new United Stadium. Yeah it's purty.


----------



## ryebreadraz

I've read there are some issues with Philadelphia regarding their owners and stadium due to the worldwide financial issues. If that forces Philly out for 2010 expect Montreal to get their team in 2010 because they have the ownership and stadium (renovations to expand it won't take long).

If Philly pulls it through though (which is far more likely to happen) I think Montreal and Portland should get teams. I would really hate to see Miami get a team and I think it would set MLS back some. This is why I was and still am against the Seattle franchise. I understand everything is set for them to make a lot of money even though Qwest isn't a SSS, but it set a bad precedent and now Miami is looking to play at FIU Stadium, which I can't see being very successful.


----------



## nyrmetros

MLS teams do NOT need to be owened by foreign teams anymore, nor set up as satellite clubs. MLS teams can form business partnerships if they wish, but anything else hurts MLS in the long run. We need our OWN identity.........


----------



## ElVoltageDR

ryebreadraz said:


> I've read there are some issues with Philadelphia regarding their owners and stadium due to the worldwide financial issues. If that forces Philly out for 2010 expect Montreal to get their team in 2010 because they have the ownership and stadium (renovations to expand it won't take long).


Boy that's kinda sad. Would Philly be pushing back the date to start up their team or would they lose it entirely?


ryebreadraz said:


> If Philly pulls it through though (which is far more likely to happen) I think Montreal and Portland should get teams. I would really hate to see Miami get a team and I think it would set MLS back some. This is why I was and still am against the Seattle franchise. I understand everything is set for them to make a lot of money even though Qwest isn't a SSS, but it set a bad precedent and now Miami is looking to play at FIU Stadium, which I can't see being very successful.


Well there are teams that aren't playing at SSS. And the good thing about the Seattle Sounders is that they have more of a working relationship with the owners of Qwest Feild (the CEO of the Sounders is also the CEO of the Seahawks). And if Barca/Miami have a good relationship with FIU then I think the could work things out. The thing that does bother me about Miami is the market, but we'll see how it goes. BTW I've heard that if Barca does win one of the 2 bids that they'll probably have a team in by 2010. Personally I'd like Montreal(good rival for Toronto) and Portland(good rival for Seattle). And both seem to have a really strong fan base. But thinking realistically I wouldn't be surprised if Montreal were left out for a bid next year and Portland and Miami get in.


----------



## ryebreadraz

ElVoltageDR said:


> Boy that's kinda sad. Would Philly be pushing back the date to start up their team or would they lose it entirely?


I don't know for sure, but my guess is they would lose the team and be given preferential treatment in the next expansion round so if they can get their act together they're guaranteed a team.




ElVoltageDR said:


> Well there are teams that aren't playing at SSS. And the good thing about the Seattle Sounders is that they have more of a working relationship with the owners of Qwest Feild (the CEO of the Sounders is also the CEO of the Seahawks). And if Barca/Miami have a good relationship with FIU then I think the could work things out. The thing that does bother me about Miami is the market, but we'll see how it goes. BTW I've heard that if Barca does win one of the 2 bids that they'll probably have a team in by 2010. Personally I'd like Montreal(good rival for Toronto) and Portland(good rival for Seattle). And both seem to have a really strong fan base. But thinking realistically I wouldn't be surprised if Montreal were left out for a bid next year and Portland and Miami get in.


I understand that the Sounders will be fine financially, but my issue was that it set a precedent that not having a SSS or plans for one is okay. Also, the only other teams not playing in SSS's (DC, Houston, KC, New England, New York, San Jose) all have a SSS under construction or are working towards getting one. Seattle has no plans for a SSS and the plan is for Qwest to be their permanent home. Prior to Seattle, MLS had stated that all new expansion teams must either have a SSS or have plans for one. I liked it far better when that was the requirement.

Miami just seems like a terrible idea to me. Miami doesn't support the teams they have now very well and Marlins fans always say that it's too hot and humid in Miami to go to games all the time. That's why the Marlins have been pushing for a new stadium with a retractable roof. If its so hot and humid that people aren't going to go to Marlins games, I doubt they're going to get people to show up for a MLS game consistently. Also, the quality of play will be poor with players wearing down in such heat and humidity. On top of that, FIU Stadium will hold 45,000 by the time a Miami franchise begins playing there so the size of the stadium isn't ideal. Add in the fact that the team won't be able to draw revenue from other events like concerts and the revenue split from parking and concessions is uncertain and I think Miami is destined to fail


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Ah, well I didn't know about the MLS requiring teams to have SSS. Just and example of the MLS really not knowing what its doing. They're pretty much going back on their word, so yeah I have to agree with you there. 

And I totally agree with you on those points about Miami. I've said the same in other forums, Miami just isn't the best place for a football/soccer team. But I really do think that the MLS will blindly rush into this opportunity to have the league associated with Barca, the same way they did with Chivas.


----------



## tritown

Well, I guess we'll see if MLS learns from their mistakes and decides to give or not give Miami a team based on how Chivas turned out.

Since this thread is about stadiums, does anybody have updates from these teams that are trying to build some, or pictures from Rio Tinto? It would be nice to hear (or better, see) what's going on with these numerous projects.


----------



## ryebreadraz

tritown said:


> Well, I guess we'll see if MLS learns from their mistakes and decides to give or not give Miami a team based on how Chivas turned out.
> 
> Since this thread is about stadiums, does anybody have updates from these teams that are trying to build some, or pictures from Rio Tinto? It would be nice to hear (or better, see) what's going on with these numerous projects.


Here's what I know about the teams who don't currently have SSS's:

DCU- By far the worst situation out there at the moment. DCU wants to build a stadium within the district, but are struggling to get anything the resembles cooperation from the district. The district is clearly still a it gun shy about helping fund another stadium after the criticism regarding their financial assistance for Nationals Park. My guess is DCU keeps working towards getting the stadium done within the district, but in the end have to build their stadium in Virginia.

Houston- It looked like the stadium deal with the city would be done soon, but the hurricane has thrown everything off. With so many things in need of repair following the hurricane it's tough for the city to justify funding for a soccer stadium. The stadium as going to be built in downtown, across the street from Minute Maid Park. The most recent thing I heard was the mayor was asking the county for $10 million to help fund the stadium. Odds are the stadium gets done over, but the Dynamo end up using more of their own money than they originally thought they would.

Kansas City- This stadium appears to be just months away from final approval. The funding for it with the city and county has been approved by the leaders and just needs to get the final approval from a board. All indications are the board will approve the funding. The board is supposed to vote on the funding on November 20.

New England- The Krafts showed no interest in moving the Revs out of Gillette Stadium, but that appears to have changed. The Krafts have recently invested some money in exploring the feasibility of a stadium in Somerville, just north of downtown Boston. A Revs spokesperson also confirmed that the club is looking at a stadium in Somerville, the first time there has been any club official confirming that they are looking into a SSS. Things are looking up for the first time.

New York- Red Bull Arena is under construction and will open either next summer or fall. You can follow the progress of the stadium on a webcam via the stadium's official site at www.RedBullArena.us

San Jose- The club remains optimistic they will get their deal done in the near future. Wolff has said they have the stadium plans complete and renderings, but they have not released them yet. They are awaiting approval from the city and expect it soon. The stadium would be built right by the San Jose airport.


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^Thew new Seattle Franchise will not have a SSS stadium for the foreseeable future. Paul Allen pushed for Qwest field to be built with the intention of hosting an MLS team, as well as the Seahawks.

The team will only sell tickets for the lower bowl (Approx 24,500 seats) and "tarp off" the upper deck. Qwest field in Soccer mode will be referred to as the Xbox Pitch at Qwest field.

I'm still not 100% on what "tarped off" means, but what would be cool to see is large curtain murals hung from the roof rafters, and anchored to the base of the upper deck. That cuts down on the empty house kind of feeling of only selling lower deck seats.

Anyone have any info on what they're planning with that?


----------



## Canadian Chocho

^^ This is probably what they mean. (centre right)


----------



## Scba

Minnesota does the sheet hanging thing when the Metrodome is set up for baseball.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Yeah, it'd imagine it'd look more or less like the example that Canadian Chocho posted. I had also hear that Quest Feild was built for football(soccer) purposes. And in the interview I heard with Drew Carey(for those that didn't see a few pages ago, Carey, yes that Drew Carey, is a minority owner) he said that the field wouldn't have NFL lines on MLS gamedays, which would be good because its pretty annoying seeing the NFL lines on a soccer pitch.


----------



## nyrmetros

The temp sheet metal roof extending over the lower bowl from the area between the lower and upper deck would be cool.....


----------



## Bobby3

ryebreadraz said:


> Here's what I know about the teams who don't currently have SSS's:
> 
> DCU- By far the worst situation out there at the moment. DCU wants to build a stadium within the district, but are struggling to get anything the resembles cooperation from the district. The district is clearly still a it gun shy about helping fund another stadium after the criticism regarding their financial assistance for Nationals Park. My guess is DCU keeps working towards getting the stadium done within the district, but in the end have to build their stadium in Virginia.
> 
> Houston- It looked like the stadium deal with the city would be done soon, but the hurricane has thrown everything off. With so many things in need of repair following the hurricane it's tough for the city to justify funding for a soccer stadium. The stadium as going to be built in downtown, across the street from Minute Maid Park. The most recent thing I heard was the mayor was asking the county for $10 million to help fund the stadium. Odds are the stadium gets done over, but the Dynamo end up using more of their own money than they originally thought they would.
> 
> Kansas City- This stadium appears to be just months away from final approval. The funding for it with the city and county has been approved by the leaders and just needs to get the final approval from a board. All indications are the board will approve the funding. The board is supposed to vote on the funding on November 20.
> 
> New England- The Krafts showed no interest in moving the Revs out of Gillette Stadium, but that appears to have changed. The Krafts have recently invested some money in exploring the feasibility of a stadium in Somerville, just north of downtown Boston. A Revs spokesperson also confirmed that the club is looking at a stadium in Somerville, the first time there has been any club official confirming that they are looking into a SSS. Things are looking up for the first time.
> 
> New York- Red Bull Arena is under construction and will open either next summer or fall. You can follow the progress of the stadium on a webcam via the stadium's official site at www.RedBullArena.us
> 
> San Jose- The club remains optimistic they will get their deal done in the near future. Wolff has said they have the stadium plans complete and renderings, but they have not released them yet. They are awaiting approval from the city and expect it soon. The stadium would be built right by the San Jose airport.


If you were being picky, Buck Shaw is a soccer stadium.


----------



## speed_demon

>


Without the legend saying its an USA stadium, I'd easily swear it was an argentinean or any other south-american stadium in days of classic, because of the papers being thrown by the "hinchas". I didnt know you had that tradition in the US aswell.


----------



## SIC

speed_demon said:


> Without the legend saying its an USA stadium, I'd easily swear it was an argentinean or any other south-american stadium in days of classic, because of the papers being thrown by the "hinchas". I didnt know you had that tradition in the US aswell.


That's my home away from home. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6cIaJIvfVo

We're not as big or as loud as a south american team. But I think we're on the right track, give us 20 years.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcKdliqUpTc


----------



## ryebreadraz

SIC said:


> That's my home away from home.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6cIaJIvfVo
> 
> We're not as big or as loud as a south american team. But I think we're on the right track, give us 20 years.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcKdliqUpTc


Section 8 is great and Toyota Park is a nice stadium. I love my Galaxy's HDC as well:










Between the Riot Squad and Angel City Brigade we have a couple solid supporters groups that have gotten bigger each year. The cool thing is because the two groups are on opposite sides of the stadium, we can do back and forth chants like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVRLpOJxH8A

Groups like Section 8, the Riot Squad, Angel City Brigade, Barra Brava, the Red Patch Boys, etc. are all great for the league, as are these great stadiums. I can't wait until Red Bull Arena is done. It should be a gem.


----------



## Canadian Chocho

:colgate:

ghware


----------



## Scoots71

Canadian Chocho said:


> :colgate:
> 
> ghware


Talk about a visitor's invasion.


----------



## Alx-D

^and that was only half of us, they shoved the rest in the upper deck. I'm going blind now trying to pick myself out in that picture


----------



## tritown

Bobby3 said:


> If you were being picky, Buck Shaw is a soccer stadium.


But if you're being picky, San Jose play many games in Oakland at the baseball/gridiron stadium there, you can't really say that San Jose have their own SSS until the new stadium is built.


I love the action shots. TFC has a great travelling group. (What is that area underneath the bleachers?)


I hope we see something like BoulderGrad's idea for the Sounders at Qwest. (as long as it doesn't look tacky).


----------



## speed_demon

SIC said:


> That's my home away from home.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6cIaJIvfVo
> 
> We're not as big or as loud as a south american team. But I think we're on the right track, give us 20 years.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcKdliqUpTc


Fantastic, it looks Buenos Aires in a day of River Plate VS Boca Juniors. That's why Im in favor of bringing USA teams to Libertadores da América, beause at least the fans seem to be almost in the same level as the ones we got here down South America.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Poking around on the interwebs, I found this for an early artists conception of how they will tarp off the upper decks at Qwest field for the Sounders (from back when the new team was first announced):

http://www.nwcn.com/s/northwest/pdf/NorthView.pdf

Which I guess is pretty much what I was going for. So that's cool. But I'm curious to see what the graphics on the banners will really be, since the ones they show in the picture are well... a little lame...


----------



## krudmonk

ryebreadraz said:


> my Galaxy


Haha, that explains a lot.  HDC is nice and somewhat revolutionary (being of better quality than Crew Stadium), but I can't stand the tons of space between the touchline and front row.


tritown said:


> But if you're being picky, San Jose play many games in Oakland at the baseball/gridiron stadium there, you can't really say that San Jose have their own SSS until the new stadium is built.


But if _you're_ being picky, they play only three games in Oakland (maybe less if Beckham stays gone and Blanco retires) and Buck Shaw is still "soccer-specific."


----------



## ryebreadraz

krudmonk said:


> Haha, that explains a lot.  HDC is nice and somewhat revolutionary (being of better quality than Crew Stadium), but I can't stand the tons of space between the touchline and front row.
> 
> But if _you're_ being picky, they play only three games in Oakland (maybe less if Beckham stays gone and Blanco retires) and Buck Shaw is still "soccer-specific."


Yes being a Galaxy fan the past 3 years has been tough, but considering we made the playoffs in every year prior and are the league's most successful franchise after DC, it's not too bad . The extra space at the HDC really does bug me, but even with that, it's still the league's largest stadium and we draw the most fans of any team in the league (and we were doing that pre-Beckham). It's a nice place and still better than some of the SSS's that have followed it.

How about we just stop being picky and whether you want to call Buck Shaw a SSS or not, it's not a permanant solution. They're working on a new stadium and that was the purpose of the original post...how are new stadium plans coming along. SSS or not...whatever.


----------



## krudmonk

ryebreadraz said:


> How about we just stop being picky and whether you want to call Buck Shaw a SSS or not, it's not a permanant solution. They're working on a new stadium and that was the purpose of the original post...how are new stadium plans coming along. SSS or not...whatever.


My viewpoint comes from early (before the season) comments that Buck Shaw and the KC [baseball] stadium were of similarly poor quality. BS is not permanent or ideal but it's the best temporary setup I've seen in a long time. Also, the team made considerable additions and renovations to it, so that's pretty relevant here.


----------



## Arist

Canadian Chocho said:


> ^^ This is probably what they mean. (centre right)


you are correct! 

When you cant sale out your stadium, get rid of seating.... HAHAHAHAHAHA! its so crazy..... it just might WORK!


----------



## ryebreadraz

^^^^^^^^ I will never get used to those huge endzones.


----------



## Alx-D

The one thing that bugs me about HDC is that stupid grass berm. Why would you put a grass hill in a modern stadium? It screams minor league baseball. I hope someday they tear it down and wrap the upper deck and roof around that end


----------



## Rekarte

Stadium of soccer in USA???

Not bad
little bealtifull


----------



## Alle

ElVoltageDR said:


> Seems Barca is getting in the MLS game. They're thinking of bidding for a Miami franchise. Would anyone please change my mind on this matter? I don't think that isn't the greatest idea. There are other cities that have a better market for football than Miami, IMO.


Can someone give me an update as to what is happening in the MLS? I like some of the developments. But the lack of a promotional system will always bug me, does this mean that large clubs in Europe can simply, being they have enough fund, go to North America and buy a permanent franchise for MLS? It feels like the clubs will not be as much a part of their city and its citizens if thats the way its going to happen. (And I personally dont like how overcommercialized the sport is in Europe either, where there is a lack of local representation in the teams, which makes it less interesting at least to me, to be honest)


----------



## krudmonk

Alx-D said:


> The one thing that bugs me about HDC is that stupid grass berm. Why would you put a grass hill in a modern stadium? It screams minor league baseball. I hope someday they tear it down and wrap the upper deck and roof around that end


family picnic bullshit


----------



## SIC

Alx-D said:


> The one thing that bugs me about HDC is that stupid grass berm. Why would you put a grass hill in a modern stadium? It screams minor league baseball. I hope someday they tear it down and wrap the upper deck and roof around that end


Thats the plan in the long term.

Meanwhile, I dunno it's been used as a terrace for the derby games. They stuck the Chivas supporters group up there.


----------



## Scba

I think it looks nice, makes a good backdrop.


----------



## Arist

Alx-D said:


> The one thing that bugs me about HDC is that stupid grass berm. Why would you put a grass hill in a modern stadium? It screams minor league baseball. I hope someday they tear it down and wrap the upper deck and roof around that end


thats the master plan for all the original us soccer stadiums. I feel like i have said this a million times. I will say it again. The US soccer stadiums look incomplete because there is room for another bowl of seats to be added to the lower bowls. Just like what Euro Stadiums used to do. ADD TO IT!!!!


----------



## nyrmetros

Those concert stages though...........


----------



## tritown

Alle said:


> Can someone give me an update as to what is happening in the MLS? I like some of the developments. But the lack of a promotional system will always bug me, does this mean that large clubs in Europe can simply, being they have enough fund, go to North America and buy a permanent franchise for MLS? It feels like the clubs will not be as much a part of their city and its citizens if thats the way its going to happen. (And I personally dont like how overcommercialized the sport is in Europe either, where there is a lack of local representation in the teams, which makes it less interesting at least to me, to be honest)


About MLS expansion discussion, I would recommend perusing the thread about it in the North American skybar.

I would have to say we're not as local as I wish we were here, either. Some of the stadia are way out in the suburbs.


----------



## nyrmetros

Portland would be a nice downtown solution for MLS..... and Montreal is just a subway ride from Downtown....


----------



## ElVoltageDR

True, tri. The NY Red Bulls don't even play in NY state:lol: The good thing about the new stadium is that the Path train does stop about one block away from it and the Path passes through Downtown Manhattan. So who know, I might finally go to one of their games when the stadium is completed, I've been wanting to experience a game of soccer.


----------



## nyrmetros

ElVoltageDR said:


> True, tri. The NY Red Bulls don't even play in NY state:lol: The good thing about the new stadium is that the Path train does stop about one block away from it and the Path passes through Downtown Manhattan. So who know, I might finally go to one of their games when the stadium is completed, I've been wanting to experience a game of soccer.


It'll be a great time. Harrison has many good bars and as you said, PATH subway can take you form either Midtown or Downtown to Harrison in 15 minutes.


----------



## Alx-D

Arist said:


> thats the master plan for all the original us soccer stadiums. I feel like i have said this a million times. I will say it again. The US soccer stadiums look incomplete because there is room for another bowl of seats to be added to the lower bowls. Just like what Euro Stadiums used to do. ADD TO IT!!!!


I understand that but the grass hill just screams minor league to me.


----------



## GunnerJacket

ElVoltageDR said:


> True I see your point there. Do you think that soccer specific venues are also out of the question?


Only to the extent already existing or realized. Canada only has (IIRC) 5 or 6 metro areas larger than 1M people, and a total population roughly 35M. So we're talking New York and New England stretched across the continent. Not the most conducive climate for funding stadiums without an MLS to house them in. Maybe someday. 

:cheers:


----------



## Alx-D

I honestly believe that Canada could have a strong domestic league if:

1. TFC, Whitecaps, and Impact are a part of the league
2. proper venues are in place
3. healthy ownership groups are in place
4. it's not run by the CSA


----------



## Bobby3

Canada has some other towns that could support teams. Possibly Ottawa, Quebec City and St. John's (NL). The latter is actually a hotbed for the sport.

Australia can do it.


----------



## nyrmetros

And Canada needs a high speed rail system, just like we do.
We North Americans are really backwards when it comes to the rails........


----------



## GunnerJacket

Bobby3 said:


> Canada has some other towns that could support teams. Possibly Ottawa, Quebec City and St. John's (NL). The latter is actually a hotbed for the sport.
> 
> Australia can do it.


True, but as as been hinted Australia has little choice while for Canada the lure to tie into the US economy is too easy and powerful. Plus the climate makes for harsher wear on the facilities.



nyrmetros said:


> And Canada needs a high speed rail system, just like we do.
> We North Americans are really backwards when it comes to the rails........


Amen. This is the sole aspect of any New Deal-like policies I'd favor seeing from the new administration. At the least the eastern seaboard and midwest need to be linked this way, especially for freight. Must be double tracked, as well, to expedite traffic in both directions.

As Churchill said, (IIRC), _"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing... after they've tried everything else!"_ :lol: :cheers:


----------



## nyrmetros

GunnerJacket said:


> Amen. This is the sole aspect of any New Deal-like policies I'd favor seeing from the new administration. At the least the eastern seaboard and midwest need to be linked this way, especially for freight. Must be double tracked, as well, to expedite traffic in both directions.
> 
> As Churchill said, (IIRC), _"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing... after they've tried everything else!"_ :lol: :cheers:


Glad we agree!


----------



## Canadian Chocho

I do believe Canada can support a domestic league. I sincerely do.

But this thread ain't about Canada. Any MLS playoff pics?


----------



## Canadian Chocho

Sorry for going OT but I do not see a need for a high-speed train in between Canadian cities. We are a BIG country. Airplanes are sufficient.


----------



## hngcm

Canadian Chocho said:


> Sorry for going OT but I do not see a need for a high-speed train in between Canadian cities. We are a BIG country. Airplanes are sufficient.


True. High-speed rail works the best in mid-range distances like in California and the BosWash corridor. Any distances longer than that, airplanes are much better options.


----------



## ØlandDK

Can you guys please post some fan-pics in the "fan-emotions" thread? I want to see what's going on in the US - Thanks.


----------



## nyrmetros

Any pics from the sold out Salt Lake City stadium last night?


----------



## soup or man

^ Huzzah









daniel.orca









Marden Blake









Renechitty









Renechitty


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Sweet pics.


----------



## nyrmetros

Thanx for those!


----------



## nyrmetros

So, any pics from MLS Cup?


----------



## soup or man

I hope they use a really interesting name. Independence FC or Philadelphia Athletic are the names that I hope they chose.


----------



## Scba

Anything FC is ridiculous in the MLS.


----------



## Arist

soup or man said:


> I hope they use a really interesting name. Independence FC or Philadelphia Athletic are the names that I hope they chose.


I like the name the Group that got this pushed came up with 
*Sons of Ben*


----------



## BoulderGrad

Sons of Ben sounds like a great name for a supporters club rather than a team.

"Its hard to watch the game with all that rukus coming from the stands over there, who are those people?"

"Why thats the Sons of Ben"


----------



## Bobby3

Scba said:


> Anything FC is ridiculous in the MLS.


What about "AFC"?


----------



## hngcm

ElVoltageDR said:


> Interesting choice. With all the dedicated soccer fans that are in Columbus I fully expect for there to be a good number of fans at the game.


Interesting choice?

Hasn't the game been played there the last two WC qualifying rounds?


----------



## berkshire royal

krudmonk said:


> Every town already has a team. There's nowhere to move.


Krudmonk you are right in some things, yes some of the elite clubs are as money grabbing as their American counterparts but let’s get this right it is only a small portion of them (mostly the English clubs). 
Clubs don't relocate because there is nowhere to move, they don’t because they have respect for their history and tradition as a club and also because they would never be able to harness the support that they had before the move. 
And if the reason clubs don't move is because there is nowhere to move, then why aren't their more mergers between clubs? Hell does Bristol need 2 teams, does London need 8 teams in the top 2 leagues, of course not! And why don't 2 huge clubs like Celtic and Rangers join the English League when at the moment they are playing in the crap Scottish league against tin pot clubs? Why because they respect the tradition of that club, the passion of their supporters and it also just wouldn't be accepted by anyone who is a fan of the sport.


----------



## flierfy

berkshire royal said:


> Krudmonk you are right in some things, yes some of the elite clubs are as money grabbing as their American counterparts but let’s get this right it is only a small portion of them (mostly the English clubs).
> Clubs don't relocate because there is nowhere to move, they don’t because they have respect for their history and tradition as a club and also because they would never be able to harness the support that they had before the move.
> And if the reason clubs don't move is because there is nowhere to move, then why aren't their more mergers between clubs? Hell does Bristol need 2 teams, *does London need 8 teams in the top 2 leagues, of course not!* And why don't 2 huge clubs like Celtic and Rangers join the English League when at the moment they are playing in the crap Scottish league against tin pot clubs? Why because they respect the tradition of that club, the passion of their supporters and it also just wouldn't be accepted by anyone who is a fan of the sport.


If London doesn't even need 8 clubs in these divisions then there's no need for one in Reading. I wonder who's supposed to replenish the divisions then? Macclesfield?

There are 12 league clubs in London. 12 out of 92 corresponds pretty well with Londons proportion within England (and Wales). I really don't understand why there were too many clubs based in London.


----------



## berkshire royal

^^
What I meant was it would surely make much more sense in a business sense if some of those clubs merged. But that was my whole point on paper having for example QPR and Fulham merging sounds like a good idea, both average around 20,000 and are very close to eachother in proximity and surely that would result in a much large club? When we all know that whilst in practice it sounds good we all know it not work because both clubs would not want to lose their identity and the fans would not support the new team either. 

My point was that clubs are keyed in with their identity and their community they don't relocate because they respect their tradition and although they're may not be many huge markets (even medium) to relocate too there is plenty of opportunity for clubs to merge to make a so called bigger club. 

Let's face it this is a non arguement yes some of the European clubs are extremely money orientated but it is more down to competitive reasons than making money. US franchises change colours, cities just to make themselves more marketable and to get a free stadium this wouldn't happen with clubs in Europe and when it does it is a very big deal and is very unpopular (Everton, MK Dons etc.)


----------



## krudmonk

berkshire royal said:


> Clubs don't relocate because there is nowhere to move, they don’t because they have respect for their history and tradition as a club


Just like Wimbledon AFC?


berkshire royal said:


> and also because they would never be able to harness the support that they had before the move.


Why can't they? Oh, because almost any place to which they'd move already has at least one team to which they're loyal. That was my point.


berkshire royal said:


> And if the reason clubs don't move is because there is nowhere to move, then why aren't their more mergers between clubs? Hell does Bristol need 2 teams, does London need 8 teams in the top 2 leagues, of course not!


How do you think Inverness Caledonian Thistle was formed? How did teams become "United" in the first place?


berkshire royal said:


> And why don't 2 huge clubs like Celtic and Rangers join the English League when at the moment they are playing in the crap Scottish league against tin pot clubs? Why because they respect the tradition of that club, the passion of their supporters and it also just wouldn't be accepted by anyone who is a fan of the sport.


Ha, if you don't think those clubs would love to jump at the move to the Premiership, you're insane. The other Scottish clubs and smaller English ones are the opposition, not some innate altruism.


----------



## flierfy

krudmonk said:


> Just like Wimbledon AFC?


Wimbledon is the perfect proof that members and supporters make up a club. Wimbledon became a soulless franchise the moment they moved and left their support. Consequently they dropped through three divisions. Without support a club is nothing.



krudmonk said:


> How do you think Inverness Caledonian Thistle was formed? How did teams become "United" in the first place?


Not every United is the a merge of two clubs. I don't know what made people in Inverness so desperate. A merger, however, are one of the worst destinies to a football club.



krudmonk said:


> Ha, if you don't think those clubs would love to jump at the move to the Premiership, you're insane. The other Scottish clubs and smaller English ones are the opposition, not some innate altruism.


Their greedy owners might wanna move. I wouldn't be so sure about the club members and fans. Once in England they'd be trophyless for years if not decades.


----------



## MJinOshkosh

^^^

I don't know what these posts have to do with Soccer stadiums in the US or MLS in particular. But I'll add my 2 cents worth anyway.

It is true that American owners hope to not only win but also to make a profit with their sports franchise. If there isn't enough profit in the media market that these teams play in then many American owners will seek a place that these owners think that they can make money in. But if you look closely at those owners that move teams many of those teams have a history of not winning or making money. 

As for London having 8 teams in the top tier leagues of English soccer and teams not merging often or moving to another place I say good for them. Ask any fan of a team that relocated they will tell you how heart broken they are that in the dark of night their team took United Van lines to another city.

But really isn't all this talk about the differences in the US and European cultures and mind set. Sure there are things in the American way teams are owned that many would like to see changed. As I am sure the same could be said about the way ownership groups of European teams are too.


----------



## krudmonk

flierfy said:


> Wimbledon is the perfect proof that members and supporters make up a club. Wimbledon became a soulless franchise the moment they moved and left their support. Consequently they dropped through three divisions. Without support a club is nothing.


The same thing happened with my club, San Jose Earthquakes. They didn't have to start at a lower level, but the fans did all they could to keep the name and trophies intact as an identity until the team returned. The Cleveland Browns did the same thing in the NFL. It's not un-American at all.


flierfy said:


> Not every United is the a merge of two clubs. I don't know what made people in Inverness so desperate. A merger, however, are one of the worst destinies to a football club.


I know what made them desperate: money. Shocking, huh? Their only shot at playing in the top league was to combine forces.


flierfy said:


> Their greedy owners might wanna move. I wouldn't be so sure about the club members and fans. Once in England they'd be trophyless for years if not decades.


Are you kidding? Those two would dwarf many Premiership clubs and use a fat injection of cash to become even bigger. They are already stars but on a small stage. I seriously doubt it's just the owners thinking such.


----------



## flierfy

krudmonk said:


> Are you kidding? Those two would dwarf many Premiership clubs and use a fat injection of cash to become even bigger. They are already stars but on a small stage. I seriously doubt it's just the owners thinking such.


No, I'm not kidding. I wonder, however, what you know about english football. The old firm clubs aren't bigger than at least half of the Premier League clubs. The extra cash they would receive would just be enough to join the mid-table.
If you think that they would be anywhere near the top of the table right after joining the League you'd be mistaken. Ask the people in Newcastle, at Aston Villa, Everton or Tottenham what kind of a task it is to challenge 4th place.


----------



## krudmonk

flierfy said:


> Ask the people in Newcastle, at Aston Villa, Everton or Tottenham what kind of a task it is to challenge 4th place.


Both would probably fit into that pack (current Newcastle and Tottenham aside), with one perhaps surpassing it. The Big Four are tedious and predictable right now, but things do change.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

hngcm said:


> Interesting choice?
> 
> Hasn't the game been played there the last two WC qualifying rounds?


Yeah read an article on that yeasterday I'm still in my first year of following soccer so there's a whole lot of stuff I still don't know:lol:


----------



## ryebreadraz

ElVoltageDR said:


> Yeah read an article on that yeasterday I'm still in my first year of following soccer so there's a whole lot of stuff I still don't know:lol:


Good to see more people in the US getting into soccer. The US Mexico matches are always awesome and the WCQ's in Columbus are epic. LA GUERRA FRIA 2!!!!!!


----------



## KingmanIII

flierfy said:


> No, I'm not kidding. I wonder, however, what you know about english football. The old firm clubs aren't bigger than at least half of the Premier League clubs. The extra cash they would receive would just be enough to join the mid-table.
> If you think that they would be anywhere near the top of the table right after joining the League you'd be mistaken. Ask the people in Newcastle, at Aston Villa, Everton or Tottenham what kind of a task it is to challenge 4th place.


Celtic F.C.'s net worth is valued higher than that of all but six of the current English Premier League clubs.

Celtic Park and Ibrox Stadium would rank second and fourth in the EPL, respectively, by seating capacity, and third and fifth in attendance.


----------



## KingmanIII

krudmonk said:


> Both would probably fit into that pack (current Newcastle and Tottenham aside), with one perhaps surpassing it. The Big Four are tedious and predictable right now, but things do change.


They will once UEFA (or even FIFA) introduce a universal salary cap.


----------



## GunnerJacket

KingmanIII said:


> Celtic F.C.'s net worth is valued higher than that of all but six of the current English Premier League clubs.
> 
> Celtic Park and Ibrox Stadium would rank second and fourth in the EPL, respectively, by seating capacity, and third and fifth in attendance.


They would stand to benefit and would compete, but it would take some time to adjust to life in a much tougher league. As other clubs are showing, simply having money doesn't guarantee success.

As far as attendance, part of that is relative as I'm sure tickets for SPL contests are cheaper than EPL matches, so while they could charge more in the EPL it might also impact attendance. I thought Parkhead could use a major renovation, though. Do they still have columns obstructed views in the upper tier? 

Moot point as this isn't happening in my lifetime, I strongly suspect. _"Dear Tottenham (Villa, et al.), How would you mind the possibility of adding two more quality sides into your tussles for European qualification? Would you mind finishing 9th imstead of 10th?..."_


KingmanIII said:


> They will once UEFA (or even FIFA) introduce a universal salary cap.


Don't hold your breath on that one. Conflicts with labor laws aside the logistics would be difficult and few people save the perennial doormats are realisticly in favor of the idea. But how would you account for differences across national leagues? How do you tell ManU and Real to spend far less than they're capable, or do you set the level so high it doesn't make an impact?

Simplest appraoch will be restricting squad funds to revenue duly earned by the club, with greater parity in distribution of league/UEFA funds.


----------



## SIC

Why would the old firm play in the Premiership?
Leave behind guaranteed spots in the CL and UEFA Cup?

They're big fish in a small pond and they love it that way. Why do you think they're called the "old firm".


----------



## Alx-D

So from what I understand here, Celtic and Rangers play in US soccer stadiums?


----------



## hngcm

Alx-D said:


> So from what I understand here, Celtic and Rangers play in US soccer stadiums?


I have no idea what you mean by this...

Anyways, Celtic and Rangers would move to the Premiership if they could, guaranteed CL spots be damned.


----------



## MJinOshkosh

If I am to understand the title on this topic "Soccer stadiums of the USA" this line of conversation has gotten a bit off topic.


----------



## Arist

MJinOshkosh said:


> If I am to understand the title on this topic "Soccer stadiums of the USA" this line of conversation has gotten a bit off topic.


Yep.


----------



## nyrmetros

Ganis said:


> Especially like... WHO CARES!!!!!!!! :bash:
> 
> How is Red Bulls Stadium coming along?


going better than I ever could have thought it would!


----------



## matthemod

en1044 said:


> no it doesnt, this is still an american stadium


All I can say about the whole "American's can deal with cold/don't need roof's" deal is that this stadium isn't designed to be an American "Football" stadium and as such shouldn't be treated as one. It is going to be a "Soccer" stadium and any self respecting fan will tell you that a roof is somewhat integral to the atmosphere of a Soccer game. I'm saying this as a Soccer fan, who has been to both Soccer and "Football" games, each sport have suitably suited stadiums.

Basically what I'm saying is, if they want to build a "proper" "Soccer" stadium, it really should incorporate a roof. The New York red bulls have the right idea. I understand your patriotism, and how it relates to not having a roof, but lets keep it civil.


----------



## Grasshopper Zurich

absolutely correct !

with a roof over all stands the athmosphere is much better and louder. but i also understand, that the USA has another fan-and stadium culture


----------



## Ganis

matthemod said:


> All I can say about the whole "American's can deal with cold/don't need roof's" deal is that this stadium isn't designed to be an American "Football" stadium and as such shouldn't be treated as one. It is going to be a "Soccer" stadium and any self respecting fan will tell you that a roof is somewhat integral to the atmosphere of a Soccer game. I'm saying this as a Soccer fan, who has been to both Soccer and "Football" games, each sport have suitably suited stadiums.
> 
> Basically what I'm saying is, if they want to build a "proper" "Soccer" stadium, it really should incorporate a roof. The New York red bulls have the right idea. I understand your patriotism, and how it relates to not having a roof, but lets keep it civil.


I think its a true soccer stadium if you can play soccer on it. who cares about the roof? I dont, I care about whats going on on the field. You Europeans must be afraid of getting sun burns.


----------



## nyrmetros

Most american soccer fans want a full roof over their new MLS stadiums. Luckily we here in NYC only have to travel 45 minutes by rail to get that.


----------



## en1044

matthemod said:


> All I can say about the whole "American's can deal with cold/don't need roof's" deal is that this stadium isn't designed to be an American "Football" stadium and as such shouldn't be treated as one. It is going to be a "Soccer" stadium and any self respecting fan will tell you that a roof is somewhat integral to the atmosphere of a Soccer game. I'm saying this as a Soccer fan, who has been to both Soccer and "Football" games, each sport have suitably suited stadiums.
> 
> Basically what I'm saying is, if they want to build a "proper" "Soccer" stadium, it really should incorporate a roof. The New York red bulls have the right idea. I understand your patriotism, and how it relates to not having a roof, but lets keep it civil.


roofs have nothing to do with the sport that is being played there. It has to do with the area it is being built in. Look at many of the south american stadiums that dont use roofs, or even Camp Nou. I guess they arent proper either. Dont give me that "proper" stuff, it doesnt fly.


----------



## bigbossman

matthemod said:


> All I can say about the whole "American's can deal with cold/don't need roof's" deal is that this stadium isn't designed to be an American "Football" stadium and as such shouldn't be treated as one. It is going to be a "Soccer" stadium and any self respecting fan will tell you that a roof is somewhat integral to the atmosphere of a Soccer game. I'm saying this as a Soccer fan, who has been to both Soccer and "Football" games, each sport have suitably suited stadiums.
> 
> Basically what I'm saying is, if they want to build a "proper" "Soccer" stadium, it really should incorporate a roof. The New York red bulls have the right idea. I understand your patriotism, and how it relates to not having a roof, but lets keep it civil.


Thats not completely true, a lot of english stadiums never had roofs till the 90s, and alot were only roofed in the 60s-80s and were open before then.

-Higbury didn't have one at the clock end ever. The north bank in it's terracing days wasn't completely covered
-The north stand at stamford bridge was open
-What about the biggest terrace in england, the holte end aston villa?? that didn't get a roof until the 1980s
-Newcastle stadium only had a roof over the mainstand until it was all seatered
-quite a few medium and smaller clubs had large uncovered sections
etc etc

roofing was expensive and was only seen as necessary as part of upgrades and when new stadiums were built. For example Arsenal only put a roof on the north bank (in the 1930s, though it got blown up during WW2) because their attendances were heavily down whenever it rained

Most spanish and italian stadiums are largely uincovered
-The san siro and stadio olympico were uncovered until italia 90

Many germany stadiums were largely uncovered into the stadium building boom!

So it's not true a roof is integral to a "soocer" stadium, it enhances atmosphere yes. But history tells us, that a roofed stadium was never really that important!


----------



## Ganis

you tell them en1044 and bigbossman!!!!!!!


----------



## matthemod

Seems a lot of the time En1044 you're more interested in posting in order to get one over us ignorant/arrogant europeans who propose an American stadium dare have a roof, rather than for the reasons why they should. I can tell this is just gonna develop into yet another flaming thing so i'm gonna stop. 

Despite this, I'm very looking forward to the RedBulls stadium being finished!


----------



## ryebreadraz

One thing to keep in mind wrt to a roof over US soccer stadiums is the heat. If a stadium were to be completely enclosed, there wouldn't be much air flowing through it, which will be terrible in a hot climate considering MLS is played in the summer. I've been to MLS games in Houston and the air/wind blowing through is a life saver. I'm curious what the climate inside Red Bull Arena will be like with it completely enclosed and the heat/humidity of a New York/New Jersey summer.


----------



## krudmonk

weava said:


> Kansas City News: http://www.kansascity.com/business/story/994618.html
> 
> Bannister mall is now being demolished, site of proposed new Wizards stadium
> 
> Personally, I hope it isn't built because *I feel like its a waste of my tax money.*


----------



## ryebreadraz

weava said:


> Kansas City News: http://www.kansascity.com/business/story/994618.html
> 
> Bannister mall is now being demolished, site of proposed new Wizards stadium
> 
> Personally, I hope it isn't built because I feel like its a waste of my tax money.


The entire development will actually provide a profit for the city and county. The majority of the government help was government allocated tax credits and tax incentives, not actual money. If they didn't go ahead with the project (which they wouldn't have without the tax help), the city and county would get 0 tax money. With the project, they won't get all the tax money that they would have without the tax incentives and credits, but they will get more than the amount of actual cash that has been allocated to the project, giving the city and county a profit from this all.


----------



## weava

ryebreadraz said:


> The entire development will actually provide a profit for the city and county. The majority of the government help was government allocated tax credits and tax incentives, not actual money. If they didn't go ahead with the project (which they wouldn't have without the tax help), the city and county would get 0 tax money. With the project, they won't get all the tax money that they would have without the tax incentives and credits, but they will get more than the amount of actual cash that has been allocated to the project, giving the city and county a profit from this all.


It wont be a sucessful development because of the area its in. The mall went under becasue of crime and people aren't going to go back to this area to shop at the new stores for the same reason.


----------



## en1044

matthemod said:


> Seems a lot of the time En1044 you're more interested in posting in order to get one over us ignorant/arrogant europeans who propose an American stadium dare have a roof, rather than for the reasons why they should. I can tell this is just gonna develop into yet another flaming thing so i'm gonna stop.
> 
> Despite this, I'm very looking forward to the RedBulls stadium being finished!


Well, no. I think i stated my point very clearly. It doesnt matter if a stadium has a roof or not because it has nothing to do with it being a "proper" soccer stadium. It has to do with the region in which the stadium is being built. I'll post something when i see an ignorant comment, and when i see someone say that a stadium isn't a proper stadium simply because it doesnt have a roof, im going to say something. Yeah, im really trying to one up you by saying that. How dare I say a stadium shouldnt have a roof and then back up my argument...


----------



## bigbossman

matthemod said:


> Seems a lot of the time En1044 you're more interested in posting in order to get one over us ignorant/arrogant europeans who propose an American stadium dare have a roof, rather than for the reasons why they should. I can tell this is just gonna develop into yet another flaming thing so i'm gonna stop.
> 
> Despite this, I'm very looking forward to the RedBulls stadium being finished!


matthemod the stadium in your picture.. the priestfield (what a dump gillingham is btw), has no roof on the away stand, does that make it not a real stadium??

en1044 made valid points i don't see where you beef coems from1


----------



## matthemod

bigbossman said:


> matthemod the stadium in your picture.. the priestfield (what a dump gillingham is btw), has no roof on the away stand, does that make it not a real stadium??
> 
> en1044 made valid points i don't see where you beef coems from1


I don't have a beef with him, all I said is that it seems whenever someone posts something about roofs and American stadiums, he's usually one of the first responses you see. It's just obvious it means a lot to him. 

So here I am offering an olive branch, I can understand how the location can affect against having a roof, i.e. the weather in such warmer areas. And I can also agree at how older stadiums didn't have roofs/still don't in other countries, but their status of being old means the lack of a roof is more of a character issue that would probably be omitted (for better or worse) with the design of a brand spanking new stadium. 

I don't believe it's an "ignorant" comment to have a different opinion to you however and I hope you will respect that. I don't want this to continue cos bickering on the internet just makes us all look bad, and i'm sure you agree! :cheers: 

Anyway onto the more important things! Scoots would it be possible for the RedBulls to enter their new stadium between the 2009 and 2010 season if it was ready in time, rather than waiting for the start of 2010?


----------



## KingmanIII

weava said:


> It wont be a sucessful development because of the area its in. The mall went under becasue of crime and people aren't going to go back to this area to shop at the new stores for the same reason.


My dad thought that it would've made much more sense to turn the Bannister Mall area into a storage/warehousing hub. With many of the city's major streets and highways (I-435, US 71, Hillcrest, Bannister, Blue Ridge, 87th, etc.) converging at or nearby, it could've been very successful as such.


----------



## SIC

bigbossman said:


> Thats not completely true, a lot of english stadiums never had roofs till the 90s, and alot were only roofed in the 60s-80s and were open before then.
> 
> -Higbury didn't have one at the clock end ever. The north bank in it's terracing days wasn't completely covered
> -The north stand at stamford bridge was open
> -What about the biggest terrace in england, the holte end aston villa?? that didn't get a roof until the 1980s
> -Newcastle stadium only had a roof over the mainstand until it was all seatered
> -quite a few medium and smaller clubs had large uncovered sections
> etc etc
> 
> roofing was expensive and was only seen as necessary as part of upgrades and when new stadiums were built. For example Arsenal only put a roof on the north bank (in the 1930s, though it got blown up during WW2) because their attendances were heavily down whenever it rained
> 
> Most spanish and italian stadiums are largely uincovered
> -The san siro and stadio olympico were uncovered until italia 90
> 
> Many germany stadiums were largely uncovered into the stadium building boom!
> 
> So it's not true a roof is integral to a "soocer" stadium, it enhances atmosphere yes. But history tells us, that a roofed stadium was never really that important!


PWNAGE!



ryebreadraz said:


> One thing to keep in mind wrt to a roof over US soccer stadiums is the heat. If a stadium were to be completely enclosed, there wouldn't be much air flowing through it, which will be terrible in a hot climate considering MLS is played in the summer. I've been to MLS games in Houston and the air/wind blowing through is a life saver. I'm curious what the climate inside Red Bull Arena will be like with it completely enclosed and the heat/humidity of a New York/New Jersey summer.


A roof and a nice breeze aren't mutually exclusive though. That's why Architects and engineers get the big bucks.
Also, theres plenty, plenty of afternoon games in MLS and it's terrible to sit in the sun. It really is.

Dallas is a pretty good example of this. They only have one terrace covered and everyone huddles underneath it. Haha.


----------



## carlspannoosh

I am old enough to remember going to stadiums when some didn't have roofs and the atmosphere was not as good as when there was a roof. The unroofed part of Highbury for example had a crap atmosphere compared to the end that did. You used to be able to fit 60k into Highbury back when standing was permitted so that partly made up for it. When I first went to Wembley on the other hand it was all covered but it was only half full. MUCH louder than Highbury and I say that as an Arsenal supporter. Of course roofs are not necessary. You just need four stands facing a pitch, but if you want to maximise home advantage a roof is a good idea.Especially if your stadium holds 30k rather than 100k i.e the Nou Camp. Simple as that.


----------



## Bobby3

I think roofs are a good idea despite people saying they "aren't American" for one reason:

The NFL plays an autumn-winter schedule, MLS plays a spring-summer schedule. The sun is brutal in summer.


----------



## tritown

^^ Would the heat be the reason why the HDC in Carson uses a canvas roof? Is it so that it only provides shade, but doesn't keep the breeze out?

The shadow of the roof can be really annoying during day games, but I bet the fans appreciate it if it cools them down.



> With many of the city's major streets and highways (I-435, US 71, Hillcrest, Bannister, Blue Ridge, 87th, etc.) converging at or nearby, it could've been very successful as such.


Well, this would make it a good location for a soccer ground, too. 
Arrowhead: Too big and too expensive for the team.
Community America Ballpark: Too small and in Kansas.
new ground: Appropriately-sized, in a good location, and finally a place that feels like home, and makes money like home, too. :cheers:


----------



## weava

tritown said:


> Community America Ballpark: Too small and in Kansas.


What does being in Kansas have to do with anything, half the metro is in Kansas.


----------



## Bobby3

I'd personally like to see them follow Taiwan's (and Kent's) lead and use the roof as a power source, be it solar or a green roof.


----------



## ryebreadraz

Bobby3 said:


> I'd personally like to see them follow Taiwan's (and Kent's) lead and use the roof as a power source, be it solar or a green roof.


I'm not sure if that would work with a lot of the stadium's plans to be easily expandable.


----------



## krudmonk

weava said:


> half the metro is in Kansas.


Half? I thought it was way less.


----------



## KingmanIII

tritown said:


> ^^ Would the heat be the reason why the HDC in Carson uses a canvas roof? Is it so that it only provides shade, but doesn't keep the breeze out?
> 
> The shadow of the roof can be really annoying during day games, but I bet the fans appreciate it if it cools them down.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, this would make it a good location for a soccer ground, too.
> Arrowhead: Too big and too expensive for the team.
> Community America Ballpark: Too small and in Kansas.
> new ground: Appropriately-sized, in a good location, and finally a place that feels like home, and makes money like home, too. :cheers:


The area around Bannister has become really run-down and crime-ridden, which is why the mall closed in the first place

A new stadium in Johnson County, Kansas makes the most sense, because most of the soccer-playing population in the KC metro is in Kansas.


----------



## KingmanIII

weava said:


> What does being in Kansas have to do with anything, half the metro is in Kansas.


And most of the money.


----------



## KingmanIII

krudmonk said:


> Half? I thought it was way less.


It's about 60/40 Missouri/Kansas.

However, the bulk of the upper-middle class lives in Johnson County, one of the richest, per-capita, in the nation. There's a few places on the Missouri side with money (parts of Lee's Summit, Kansas City North), but for the most part KS are the Capulets and MO the Montagues.


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^which begs the question in the first place, if you have lots of money, why would you live in Kansas City?


----------



## KingmanIII

BoulderGrad said:


> ^^which begs the question in the first place, if you have lots of money, why would you live in Kansas City?


You could ask the same thing of just about any city north of the 36th parallel.


----------



## tritown

Thanks for catching my mistake. I didn't realize how much of the money, or the population, is on the west side of the state line. I was just assuming that it was a good idea to play in Missouri vs. Kansas. Maybe part of it has to do with that Arrowhead is in Missouri.

Well, regardless, this is still good news about the stadium. :cheers:


----------



## SIC

You beat me to it. 

But anyway, I still don't think it's worth the whoring of your whole team identity to become a brand "extension". You know? It's the very definition of modern football, it's arguably post-modern football. :lol: But I'm still a little jealous.

Still, it would be nice if the AEG had sold the Fire before the stadium was built, damn cheapskates. Maybe we could have at least avoided a stage end. Oh well, I'll definitely be there in 2010 when the Fire visit, maybe we beat them 5-1 all over again.


----------



## Zorba

I wouldn't say Houston Dynamo are the most popular team in the MLS. It is hard to judge at this point in time anyways being that the stadium situation in all MLS cities are not the same. There are teams with beautiful new soccer specific stadiums (LA, Salt Lake, etc...) which attract many fans by themselves, and then there are clubs like DC United which probably has the most loyal fans in the MLS, which is due in most part to them being the most successful team in the leagues history. 

In any case, I like the design for the stadium. The exterior looks especially nice, and in comparison to those of other MLS stadiums, probably more expensive. Where is te financial backing coming from for the stadium?

All in all, good for the MLS to have more of these new stadiums in the league. 

I just wish some of the clubs would change their names to stop trying to sound sppealing to various ethnic minorities in their cities (*Real *Salt Lake,* Chivas *USA, Houston *Dynamo*....:lol


----------



## GunnerJacket

Zorba said:


> I just wish some of the clubs would change their names to stop trying to sound sppealing to various ethnic minorities in their cities (*Real *Salt Lake,* Chivas *USA, Houston *Dynamo*....:lol


I agree with your notion but I don't think this applies to Chivas and Dynamo, at least no where near the level of pandering as with Salt Lake. Chivas is literally a sub-franchise of the Mexican club, so while it is a marketing maneuver it wasn't borrowing a name - They already owned it! In Houston's case the name is in part an homage to the city's power-generation heritage and is the name of one of Houston's former soccer teams (USL in the 80's, I believe). Besides, I doubt the Dynamo clubs in Europe wouldn't have the global popularity to suggest a US team, especially one in Texas, would want to borrow from that sense of branding. I think it's also that Dynamo is more common among youth leagues as a soccer-ish name. Anyway, I don't begrudge either of those two names, though I wish Chivas would create a new brand for their US team.

Now, can we PLEASE do something about this Red Bull crap?! :bash:


----------



## Ganis

Why was a Houston Stadium moved to in here? Its proposed, it should stay in the proposed area.


----------



## sbutlik

Zorba said:


> I just wish some of the clubs would change their names to stop trying to sound sppealing to various ethnic minorities in their cities (*Real *Salt Lake,* Chivas *USA, Houston *Dynamo*....:lol


you're assuming that the Dynamo are after eastern European minorities in Houston.

FC Dynamo Kyiv
FC Dynamo Moscow
Houston Dynamo... I prefer FC Dynamo Houston.


----------



## likasz

World Cup 94' in the USA has the biggest attendance in history.Attendance per match in the MLS is something around 17,000 - like in NBA and NHL.So maybe you need bigger stadiums than 21000-seaters? 


PS.I haven't heard about a big minority from E.Europe in Houston


----------



## Ganis

Maybe we had so many people there because it was the FREAKEN WOLRD CUP!


----------



## tritown

likasz said:


> World Cup 94' in the USA has the biggest attendance in history.Attendance per match in the MLS is something around 17,000 - like in NBA and NHL.So maybe you need bigger stadiums than 21000-seaters?
> 
> 
> PS.I haven't heard about a big minority from E.Europe in Houston


The name "Dynamo" regards the history of energy in Houston. (A dynamo is an electrical generator), not any kind of E European fanbase. They were going to name it 1836 instead, but there was a big naming controversy.

I think 21,000 is a good start for Houston. MLS needs to think small for now. 21,000/21,000 is better than 22,000/35,000.


----------



## Zorba

likasz said:


> World Cup 94' in the USA has the biggest attendance in history.Attendance per match in the MLS is something around 17,000 - like in NBA and NHL.So maybe you need bigger stadiums than 21000-seaters?
> 
> 
> PS.I haven't heard about a big minority from E.Europe in Houston


Don't know if there is a major Spanish minority in Salt Lake City either. I assumed th MLS was trying to make itself seem more "authentic" by picking commonly used names of clubs in Europe. 

However, some of the forumers showed that the name Houston Dynamo is a reference to the city's energy industry. Good enough answer for me.:cheers:


----------



## KingmanIII

hngcm said:


> I just find it hilarious that the US hosts Mexico in this 20,000 stadium:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Mexico hosts the US in a 100,000 stadium:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yet the homefield advantage works just as fine in the 20k stadium as in the 100k stadium.


The U.S. goes from hosting Mexico in 70,000-seat stadiums in Glendale and Houston to a 25,000-seater in C-BUS? Wow.


----------



## Alx-D

^ that just means there are 50,000 less mexicans at the game


----------



## JYDA

Here's some pics from USA training yesterday. The pitch is in surprisingly good shape for early February. Grass still appears to be dorment though.


----------



## salaverryo

They play in Columbus to press the home field advantage as much as possible. They could easily fill the LA Coliseum (90 thou-plus) for such a game, but 90% of the crowd would be Mexicans.


----------



## JYDA

There's a tornado watch for tonight with thunderstorms and 65 mile per hour wind gusts expected in Columbus. The erector set might get blown over! :lol:


----------



## isaidso

salaverryo said:


> They play in Columbus to press the home field advantage as much as possible. They could easily fill the LA Coliseum (90 thou-plus) for such a game, but 90% of the crowd would be Mexicans.


That makes a lot of sense. I remember when Greece played Canada in basketball at the Air Canada Centre in Toronto. The crowd was mostly Greek. That's not home field advantage.

Is soccer popular in Columbus? Columbus has an NHL team, but it still struck me as an odd choice for a MLS franchise.


----------



## Bobby3

Relatively.

I wouldn't call it a hotbed, but the team does alright.


----------



## KingmanIII

isaidso said:


> That makes a lot of sense. I remember when Greece played Canada in basketball at the Air Canada Centre in Toronto. The crowd was mostly Greek. That's not home field advantage.
> 
> Is soccer popular in Columbus? Columbus has an NHL team, but it still struck me as an odd choice for a MLS franchise.


C-bus does a good job of supporting the Crew and Jackets, but ultimately it's all about Ohio State.


----------



## isaidso

KingmanIII said:


> C-bus does a good job of supporting the Crew and Jackets, but ultimately it's all about Ohio State.


That's what I thought. I like gridiron, but it's important to offer sporting choices to any population. It's hard to compete with the entertainment value of Ohio State. Great stadium, huge vocal crowd, great team, great band, etc. Even if you don't care for the sport, boredom would be difficult to achieve during a game.


----------



## -Corey-

The USA won :tongue3:


----------



## krudmonk

isaidso said:


> That makes a lot of sense. I remember when Greece played Canada in basketball at the Air Canada Centre in Toronto. The crowd was mostly Greek. That's not home field advantage.
> 
> Is soccer popular in Columbus? Columbus has an NHL team, but it still struck me as an odd choice for a MLS franchise.


Well the Crew are four years older than the BJs, so it must have some staying power.


----------



## sbutlik

Does any have anymore pictures of the Crew Stadium?


----------



## Scoots71

This was taken at Crew Stadium 3 hours before the game.


----------



## tritown

isaidso said:


> That makes a lot of sense. I remember when Greece played Canada in basketball at the Air Canada Centre in Toronto. The crowd was mostly Greek. That's not home field advantage.
> 
> Is soccer popular in Columbus? Columbus has an NHL team, but it still struck me as an odd choice for a MLS franchise.


This is what I think: Due to the failure of the North American Soccer League (NASL), a new coast-to-coast soccer league would be a hard sell to potential ownership groups. So I think that the founders of the league just had to go with the cities most interested, so that included small markets like Columbus and Kansas City.

Columbus, compared to the MLS, historically has had decent support, but not above average. I think with the best season record and MLS cup in 2008, and the fact that they have some history, since they are an original in MLS (1996), support will continue to grow and be pretty strong. They might end up being sort of like Green Bay is for NFL. Small market, but a crazy fanbase. We'll see.


----------



## tritown

Can anybody take a gander at how many US vs el Tri supporters there were at the match?


----------



## westsidebomber

Crew Stadium is a really great stadium to see a game at. I've been to a few Crew games plus many high school football games there (that actually outdrew many Crew games. My high school drew 15,000 there a few years back and a game this year between 2 Columbus high schools sold out). Great sight lines and because it is all metal, very loud.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

tritown said:


> Can anybody take a gander at how many US vs el Tri supporters there were at the match?


My rough estimate would be 75-85% US to 25-15% Tri supporters.


----------



## El Mariachi

Its always fun beating Mexico. Suprisingly, the U.S. is like the 4th highest rated team in the Americas. Hopefully someday, the U.S. team will dominate the likes of Brazil and Argentina.


----------



## Benn

one can always dream


----------



## El Mariachi

you never know. 

By the way, I have been reading alot of comments in regards to the U.S.-Mexico rivalry. Many people consider it the best rivalry on international level. What do you guys make of this?


----------



## Bobby3

tritown said:


> This is what I think: Due to the failure of the North American Soccer League (NASL), a new coast-to-coast soccer league would be a hard sell to potential ownership groups. So I think that the founders of the league just had to go with the cities most interested, so that included small markets like Columbus and Kansas City.
> 
> Columbus, compared to the MLS, historically has had decent support, but not above average. I think with the best season record and MLS cup in 2008, and the fact that they have some history, since they are an original in MLS (1996), support will continue to grow and be pretty strong. They might end up being sort of like Green Bay is for NFL. Small market, but a crazy fanbase. We'll see.


The Green Bay of soccer is Rochester.


----------



## salaverryo

Judge Phillip Banks said:


> you never know.
> 
> By the way, I have been reading alot of comments in regards to the U.S.-Mexico rivalry. Many people consider it the best rivalry on international level. What do you guys make of this?


It is certainly one of them.

Other great rivalries could be: 

Germany v. England
England v. Argentina
Brazil v. Uruguay
Brazil v. Argentina


----------



## tritown

Bobby3 said:


> The Green Bay of soccer is Rochester.


I disagree. The allegory might work except that Green Bay is NFL, but Rochester is not MLS, but USL. They do have good attendance and history, but they're not in the right league for casual fans to know about them.

----

I hope the US-Mexico rivalry attracts attention of more potential US fans.


----------



## Ganis

I was proud of the American crowd. the Flags, red, whit and blue, singing. Man, i wish i was there.


----------



## JYDA

They really need to upgrade the lighting at Crew Stadium.


----------



## D.D.

Congrats to USA woot, I saw the whole game and I rooted for the USA obviously :cheers:


----------



## Canadian Chocho

^^ I watched it too. TBH I was crying the whole time because Canada wasn't there.


----------



## ryebreadraz

I just got home from Columbus after attending the match. It was fantastic and the US crowd (especially those of us behind the goal) were loud all match long. I was told by a ESPN crew member that they had to turn off all of the mic's near Sam's Army and American Outlaws (the two big supporters group who were decked out in red behind the goal) because our yelling, chanting and singing had too much profanity so I doubt that it came through on TV, but I was told by people on the opposite end of the stadium that we were audible throughout the stadium. Crew Stadium is a rather bland place to watch a match, but it does have its charm as the first SSS in the US and the bare bones stadium the US uses for their cold weather home field advantage.


----------



## Bobby3

First in MLS, second professional.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackbaud_Stadium


----------



## ryebreadraz

Bobby3 said:


> First in MLS, second professional.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackbaud_Stadium


If an average high school football team could play at the stadium and not look out of place, I'm not counting it.


----------



## Ganis

ryebreadraz said:


> I was told by a ESPN crew member that they had to turn off all of the mic's near Sam's Army and American Outlaws (the two big supporters group who were decked out in red behind the goal) because our yelling, chanting and singing had too much profanity so I doubt that it came through on TV, but I was told by people on the opposite end of the stadium that we were audible throughout the stadium


There was someone with a trumpet thingy by the announcers mic the whole game. O my god it got annoying, but it was loud on the TV.


----------



## ryebreadraz

Ganis said:


> There was someone with a trumpet thingy by the announcers mic the whole game. O my god it got annoying, but it was loud on the TV.


I don't think it was a trumpet. It's a plastic horn that the Mexican fans love. They're ridiculously annoying and hundreds of Mexican fans bring them and just blow into them all game because they don't have a song or chant.


----------



## Bobby3

ryebreadraz said:


> If an average high school football team could play at the stadium and not look out of place, I'm not counting it.


I disagree, Charleston's stadium is a major, major part of soccer in America.

The difference between soccer and other sports is that soccer's hearts are in it's roots, not it's foliage.


----------



## Ganis

ryebreadraz said:


> I don't think it was a trumpet. It's a plastic horn that the Mexican fans love. They're ridiculously annoying and hundreds of Mexican fans bring them and just blow into them all game because they don't have a song or chant.


but they were doing it during the USA chants.


----------



## nyrmetros

Scoots71 said:


> money shot


----------



## nyrmetros

tritown said:


> I disagree. The allegory might work except that Green Bay is NFL, but Rochester is not MLS, but USL. They do have good attendance and history, but they're not in the right league for casual fans to know about them.
> 
> ----
> 
> I hope the US-Mexico rivalry attracts attention of more potential US fans.


Portland's USL D1 team has the best fan support in the league. Better than a few MLS teams I might add.


----------



## ryebreadraz

nyrmetros said:


> Portland's USL D1 team has the best fan support in the league. Better than a few MLS teams I might add.


The Timbers have fantastic support. I reallllly hope that the city council approves their portion of funding for the renovated PGE Park and new minor league baseball stadium within the next month so Portland gets picked for the newest expansion franchise. The fans are fantastic, the stadium is in a great location and it should be a great place to watch a match with the renovations.


----------



## KingmanIII

ryebreadraz said:


> The Timbers have fantastic support. I reallllly hope that the city council approves their portion of funding for the renovated PGE Park and new minor league baseball stadium within the next month so Portland gets picked for the newest expansion franchise. The fans are fantastic, the stadium is in a great location and it should be a great place to watch a match with the renovations.


Why new a minor league ballpark? Wasn't PDX in line for an MLB franchise if they built a new ballpark? Is the PPS site still available? How about the old post office site?


----------



## ryebreadraz

KingmanIII said:


> Why new a minor league ballpark? Wasn't PDX in line for an MLB franchise if they built a new ballpark? Is the PPS site still available? How about the old post office site?


Portland isn't getting a major league team any time soon. They have a AAA team that shares PGE Park with the Timbers, but renovations to the stadium for a MLS team would make it unusable for baseball. PGE Park isn't good for the baseball team anyways because they don't ever fill half of the 20,000 seat stadium. The plan is to renovate PGE for soccer and build a better sized baseball stadium for baseball Originally the plan called for the baseball stadium to be in Lents, but now it looks like it'll be in the Rose Quarter.


----------



## sbutlik

Does anyone know what the Kansas City soccer stadium looks like?


----------



## Bobby3

I think they should copy Japan's model and require that not only an active team be in place. But that it be financially sound, have a venue capable of hosting it, local support and THEN make them earn promotion on the field.

In Japan teams apply as associate members of the J. League, if they're granted associate membership and finish in the top 4 of the JFL (Japan's third tier) then they're promoted to the J. League second division.


----------



## nyrmetros

Bobby3 said:


> I think they should copy Japan's model and require that not only an active team be in place. But that it be financially sound, have a venue capable of hosting it, local support and THEN make them earn promotion on the field.
> 
> In Japan teams apply as associate members of the J. League, if they're granted associate membership and finish in the top 4 of the JFL (Japan's third tier) then they're promoted to the J. League second division.


Not a bad idea. MLS needs to buy the USL and do something like this.


----------



## lpioe

Good news:



> Barça end interest in MLS franchise
> 
> Barça, Major League Soccer and Marcelo Claure have all agreed to end any interest in setting up a franchise in Miami after lengthy negotiations surrounding the financial aspect of the bid, according to an official statement from the Catalan club.
> 
> Below is the official statement from FC Barcelona.
> 
> "Major League Soccer, FC Barcelona and businessman Marcelo Claure have jointly agreed to not pursue the candidacy for Miami to have a new franchise in the expanding MLS. After extensive talks and a joint evaluation, the decision was made because it is not viable at this time, due to the adverse market conditions, to start a new team in the south of Florida in 2010.
> 
> Despite that, FC Barcelona maintains its commitment with the MLS and the United States and will continue to work with them and with Marcelo Claure on other soccer-related projects.
> 
> "I would like to thank FC Barcelona and Marcelo Claure for the effort that they put in to trying to found a team in the city of Miami, MLS agent Don Garber stated.
> 
> "FC Barcelona is one of the biggest clubs in sport and is strategically very well placed within the industry and I think them for the opportunity of working both them and with Marcelo Claure over the past few months," he added.
> 
> The corporate director general of FC Barcelona, Joan Oliver, explained that the North American market continues to be a priority for the club. "We will continue with our agreement of promotion and marketing with Soccer United Marketing (the business that controls the commercial side of the MLS) and we will seek ways to strengthen our relationship with this organisation, as well as with the fans in the United States," he explained
> 
> Marcelo Claure also spoke as he said. "I would like to reiterate my confidence in the MLS and in the future of professional soccer within the United States, above all in the south of Florida. Despite not being able to move this initiative any further forward on this occasion, due to various reasons, I will continue to work with FC Barcelona on other soccer projects in the south of Florida."


http://www.fcbarcelona.com/web/english/noticies/club/temporada08-09/03/n090303107407.html

Is Miami still interested in getting a team or would they only have done it with Barça?


----------



## ElVoltageDR

I was wondering what had happened with this thread:lol: 

Anyway, I think that Barca was too big a part for the Miami bid for them to continue on their own. They might stay in the running, but I don't think the bid looks as attractive without Barca's backing.


----------



## Bobby3

Miami won't be getting a team.

Their USL team, Miami FC is effectively on it's deathbed. While MLS doesn't officially use USL attendance as a benchmark, you know that a second dead team there will do them no favors.


----------



## sbutlik

I like to see a second Toronto MLS team.


----------



## GunnerJacket

sbutlik said:


> I like to see a second Toronto MLS team.


Okay. There's one vote. 

Seriously, though, MLS would be foolish to double up in anymore cities, even NYC. Better off getting more coverage and exposure across the continent then to over saturate existing markets.


----------



## JYDA

^^^ I agree except for New York. Right now, the Red Bulls are almost entirely cut off from everything east of manhattan. There's millions of people who are far enough from Jersey they'd be unlikely to go to a New Jersey Energy Drink game anyway. The NY2 team next to Citifield will tap another massive market and give New Jersey Energy Drink a true rival. A New York Derby would help spur interest in my mind. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Bobby3

In a franchise system you don't need to double up anymore. There are plenty of cities that could support a team, back when baseball had several double-cities that wasn't really the case.

Like Omaha, for instance.

http://www.gocreighton.tv/PhotoAlbum.dbml?SPSID=89397&SPID=2518&DB_OEM_ID=1000&PALBID=12744

That's Creighton's soccer stadium.


----------



## hngcm

According to sources, Portland and Vancouver will get the next two MLS expansion teams. 

http://www.24thminute.com/2009/03/vancouver-and-portland-win-expansion.html

http://www.mls-rumors.net/2009/03/expansion-fscs-max-bretos-confirms.html

Nice!


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Wow, two new rivals for Seattle in one fell swoop! Should make things interesting in the north west.


----------



## GunnerJacket

JYDA said:


> ^^^ I agree except for New York. Right now, the Red Bulls are almost entirely cut off from everything east of manhattan. There's millions of people who are far enough from Jersey they'd be unlikely to go to a New Jersey Energy Drink game anyway. The NY2 team next to Citifield will tap another massive market and give New Jersey Energy Drink a true rival. A New York Derby would help spur interest in my mind. Just my 2 cents.


I'm not objecting and would love to see a team in Brooklyn or elsewhere within actual NYC. Or at the least ditch this "Red Bull" crap.  However, MLS would be better served having a team in another solid market as opposed to doubling up. Maybe when MLS is large enough to have promotion and relegation, or something like 24 teams then I'd be all for it. In the meantime I'd prefer to see some other communities get their shot at the big time.


Bobby3 said:


> Like Omaha, for instance.


Um...
Nice venue. Great school. Not exactly MLS territory yet.


ElVoltageDR said:


> Wow, two new rivals for Seattle in one fell swoop! Should make things interesting in the north west.


Given the arrangements with other bidders it makes the most sense. 
- Keeps the Cascadia rivalries intact
- Gives Toronto another rival
- Likely leads to some broader TV contract for Canada
- Saves USL from having to keep only one distant, northwest franchise going
- While not the largest markets going their bona fide soccer cities, meaning the franchises should be well supported and help MLS continue to establish itself as a solid, niche league.

It will be great to have more franchises shown on TV that will feature quality crowds. Here's to hoping this is correct. :cheers:


----------



## ramvid01

JYDA said:


> ^^^ I agree except for New York. Right now, the Red Bulls are almost entirely cut off from everything east of manhattan. There's millions of people who are far enough from Jersey they'd be unlikely to go to a New Jersey Energy Drink game anyway. The NY2 team next to Citifield will tap another massive market and give New Jersey Energy Drink a true rival. A New York Derby would help spur interest in my mind. Just my 2 cents.


They aren't cut off from everything East of Manhattan. Once Red Bull moves into the new home they will be much more accessable to the fan base east of Manhattan as it would only be two train rides from those locations to the new stadium.


----------



## Bobby3

I hope Portland stay at their current stadium and build a stand on the touchline when the baseball team leaves, it has a great atmosphere.


----------



## sbutlik

What MLS team does Beckman want to own? 

Do you like...

Oscar De la Hoya (Dynamo)
Drew Carey (Sounders)
Steve Nash (Vancouver).........as owners? or you sick of it?


----------



## GunnerJacket

sbutlik said:


> Do you like...
> 
> Oscar De la Hoya (Dynamo)
> Drew Carey (Sounders)
> Steve Nash (Vancouver).........as owners? or you sick of it?


Too early to speak of these with regards to the Sounders and Vancouver: The former only kicks off this season and the latter isn't even an official member. Meanwhile from outside Houston I can't think of anyway that De la Hoya has influenced the club as I didn't even know he was part of the ownership. I will say that Carey appears to be saying and doing all the right things about wanted to cater to true soccer fans, so he's won my support from afar.

Otherwise I could care less about the owners' celebrity status provided they're all on the up and up and doing right by the club and the fans.


----------



## ryebreadraz

Portland looks like a sure bet after this vote, which just about secured funding from the city from the stadium. There is a $15 million gap in funding, but it's not expected to be a major hurdle. The money will go to moving the minor league baseball team that plays at PGE Park to a new stadium and renovating downtown PGE Park for soccer only. Following the renovation, the stadium will look like this:










As for Vancouver, I'm not so sure about them. I'd definitely consider them the frontrunner for that final spot (I think Portland is a done deal), but I don't think they're in for sure. Both of the sites that are claiming the deal is done aren't the most reliable. I think MLS is ready to fall back on Vancouver, but is holding out hope that St. Louis can secure additional backers for the ownership group. In a perfect world, I think MLS wants St. Louis and Portland this round with Montreal and Vancouver next.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Carey isn't really the owner of the Sounders, but he is a minority owner (so maybe its the same thing?:lol. But I agree GunnerJacket, Carey has really done a lot for the fans. He did an interview on World Soccer Daily (podcast) and a lot of his ideas came from what he observed in European football. I really like where he and the ownership group can take this franchise. If the fans do their part (which it seems they are) this franchise will go far.


----------



## matthemod

ryebreadraz said:


>


Despite not being a SSS, instead being an adaptation of a Baseball field, I like this more than what a brand spanking new one would have been. I know Portland's fans are pretty vocal and redeveloping the ground will only be good for them. I like new stadiums in an architectural and visual setting, but in terms of what the stadium means to the fans this kind of redevelopment means so much more.


----------



## Scba

If this goes through, where will Portland State play football games?


----------



## GunnerJacket

Bobby3 said:


> DC got some more bad news regarding their stadium effort today, sadly.


Amazing how abused that club has become regarding this issue. Their fans deserve so much better.


----------



## Wezza

lpioe said:


> Well if he's talking about crowds it doesn't make sense to include Germany in the list, because they have higher attendance than Spain and England.


Yeah, i forgot Germany was on the list. I was thinking they could catch Holland & France in terms of average crowds. No chance of catching Germany.


----------



## nyrmetros




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## nyrmetros




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## nyrmetros




----------



## parcdesprinces

I know Redbull is Austrian but.......................No Comment............ 

*Austria: Klagenfurt, Wörtherseestadion (Hypo Group Arena)*

















































I thought you had architects in USA ?????


----------



## jonaska

^^^^ where is that stadium??


----------



## JYDA

parcdesprinces said:


> I know Redbull is Austrian but.......................No Comment............
> 
> *Austria: Klagenfurt, Wörtherseestadion (Hypo Group Arena)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought you had architects in USA ?????


Red Bull asked for it to be modeled after this. They even bought out another investor's share in the new stadium so they could have the design changed to their liking. They liked Hypo Arena and had Rossetti architects scale it down to 25,000 seats


----------



## Luiggi

spectacular stadiums in the usa


----------



## en1044

Luiggi said:


> spectacular stadiums in the usa


Why thank you


----------



## VelesHomais

Is there a separate thread for the Red Bulls Park stadium? It most certainly deserves one.


----------



## ryebreadraz

VelesHomais said:


> Is there a separate thread for the Red Bulls Park stadium? It most certainly deserves one.


Stadiums need to be 30,000+ for their own thread. Red Bull Arena will only be 25,189.


----------



## berkshire royal

I really like Red Bull Arena if it continues to develop the way I think it will, then for me it will be the best stadium in MLS and quite possibly among the best around that size in the world. 

I normally dislike stadiums that have similar designs, but in this case I actually like what they have done. Firstly it isn't too bigger deal because as far as I am aware Klagenfurt took down their second tier so this stadium won't have a twin amd also that stadium is in Austria they aren't exactly going to be playing eachother anytime soon. I prefer this stadium to Klagenfurt anyway, they have taken a template for a stadium and improved it and made it (from how it looks so far) very intimate. MLS needs more stadiums like this, which are good size and very different in their design. Now all that needs to be done is for the Red Bulls to change their name to New Jersey Red Bulls and New York to bring back the Cosmos :banana:.


----------



## parcdesprinces

> Now all that needs to be done is for the Red Bulls to change their name to New Jersey Red Bulls and New York to bring back the Cosmos .


Agree ! +++++1 :lol: 

BRING BACK THE COSMOS with Pelé, Beckenbauer, Chinaglia & Studio 54 !
And save the Giants Stadium !!!
:banana:


----------



## VelesHomais

ryebreadraz said:


> Stadiums need to be 30,000+ for their own thread. Red Bull Arena will only be 25,189.


That sucks.


----------



## KingmanIII

ryebreadraz said:


> Stadiums need to be 30,000+ for their own thread. Red Bull Arena will only be 25,189.


I think the rule needs to be revised (i.e. if it's a stadium in its country's premier football association)--several stadiums in the SPL can't have their own thread for this very reason.


----------



## Ganis

parcdesprinces said:


> And save the Giants Stadium !!!


Ya, because it wont look weird for 2 huge football stadiums to be a few feet from each other.


----------



## Bobby3

Ganis said:


> Ya, because it wont look weird for 2 huge football stadiums to be a few feet from each other.


http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=-34.6687938&lon=-58.369503&z=17&l=0&m=h

Estadio Juan Domingo Perón - 64,161
Estadio Libertadores de América - 53,000

I'm not suggesting it, but it wouldn't be a first.


----------



## VelesHomais

When will the opening match be in the Red Bulls Park? Have they announced what the prices will be?


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Probably late March, if it stays on schedule for 2010. If not I guess it would open up at any point during the same year.


----------



## Ganis

Bobby3 said:


> http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=-34.6687938&lon=-58.369503&z=17&l=0&m=h
> 
> Estadio Juan Domingo Perón - 64,161
> Estadio Libertadores de América - 53,000
> 
> I'm not suggesting it, but it wouldn't be a first.


thats like 100 feet away.

The 2 giant stadiums (current and under construction) are so close you can touch both at the same time.


----------



## ryebreadraz

ElVoltageDR said:


> Probably late March, if it stays on schedule for 2010. If not I guess it would open up at any point during the same year.


The stadium is actually supposed to be done late this year so I don't think they'll have an issue getting it done for the first game of 2010. In fact, I expect that match to be on ESPN2 to show off the stadium.


----------



## mazpro

berkshire royal said:


> I really like Red Bull Arena if it continues to develop the way I think it will, then for me it will be the best stadium in MLS and quite possibly among the best around that size in the world.
> 
> I normally dislike stadiums that have similar designs, but in this case I actually like what they have done. Firstly it isn't too bigger deal because as far as I am aware Klagenfurt took down their second tier so this stadium won't have a twin amd also that stadium is in Austria they aren't exactly going to be playing eachother anytime soon. I prefer this stadium to Klagenfurt anyway, they have taken a template for a stadium and improved it and made it (from how it looks so far) very intimate. MLS needs more stadiums like this, which are good size and very different in their design. Now all that needs to be done is for the Red Bulls to change their name to New Jersey Red Bulls and New York to bring back the Cosmos :banana:.


You are not informed correctly. 
The city of Klagenfurt has decided not to downsize the stadiums shape. Currently nothing has ben done, but they plan on partially removing seats from the upper tier behind the goals and putting huge sposnor wallpapers on it - something like the MLS mode for the Seattle Qwest Field. It should have 22.000 seats then.

The stadium you meant was probably Innsbruck Tivoli, which has been downsized again.

The NY Red Bulls stadium will remain Klagenfurt Hypo Group Arena's twin after all, which is not a bad thing. Both stadiums are very nice and intimate & offer a great atmosphere. I for one think that every stadium has a certain charm, even if this particular one looks like a copy. No competition between those two stadiums IMO.


----------



## berkshire royal

^^
I thought the original plan was to take away the second tier and to be honest it made sense too, does a team like Austria Karnten need a 30,000 stadium or is it being kept at that capacity so Austria can play there? 

Anyway I prefer this stadium from what I have seen, it seems more intimate then Hypo Arena which is a very big complement seeing as Hypo was probably my favorite stadium at the Euro's. The similarity between the two isn't too bigger deal anyway Hypo is the home of an average Austrian team and Red Bull Arena is home to an MLS team they are hardly going to be playing eachother any time soon and because of that they do keep their unique identity.


----------



## mazpro

berkshire royal said:


> ^^
> I thought the original plan was to take away the second tier and to be honest it made sense too, does a team like Austria Karnten need a 30,000 stadium or is it being kept at that capacity so Austria can play there?
> 
> Anyway I prefer this stadium from what I have seen, it seems more intimate then Hypo Arena which is a very big complement seeing as Hypo was probably my favorite stadium at the Euro's. The similarity between the two isn't too bigger deal anyway Hypo is the home of an average Austrian team and Red Bull Arena is home to an MLS team they are hardly going to be playing eachother any time soon and because of that they do keep their unique identity.


The initial plan was to reduce it down to 12.000 seats , but it would make it only a regional sports facility, so how much sense does it make to build a nice stadium - the only stadium in a region of 500.000 people - and then destroy it again by "cutting" it in 1/3 of the original size? The shape would be lost, plus the chance to host some games of the national team, other bigger games & events like concerts would be lost too. 

Basically, for a city like Klagenfurt, a 15.000 - 20.000 stadium would be enough. Therefore it has been decided to keep 22.000 seats and remove 10.000 seats and still retain the original shape of the stadium - fine for me.

The similarity was never a big deal. It´s not that could get no sleep because of that - but if they´re similar, it isn´t wrong to to mention. I even like the fact that Red Bull took the Klagenfurt stadium as an inspiration for its own homeground. 

I only don´t understand how you define the importance of architectural slimilarity of two stadiums by judging how good or bad the host clubs were and how they wouldn´t meet anyway? 
In theory, what if some NFL Team made a Stadium that looked like the Allianz Arena in Munich because someone liked the design of it? These two teams would not meet either, so it would be no big deal?


----------



## nyrmetros

Metro Park will conquer all other MLS stadiums. And that will hopefully encourage other MLS teams to include a full roof over their stands....


----------



## nyrmetros

Anyone know the average attendance of Seattle so far?


----------



## The Voice of reason

29,939.00


----------



## JYDA

The Voice of reason said:


> 29,939*.00*


You sure? I was certain I saw some half and quarter bodies in attendance the other night


----------



## vidgms

I actually sent my wooden leg there so I could have a presence.


----------



## nyrmetros

great numbers Seattle! keep it up !


----------



## SIC

nyrmetros said:


> Metro Park will conquer all other MLS stadiums. And that will hopefully encourage other MLS teams to include a full roof over their stands....


But it's no gonna happen, no one else has owners willing to foot 200 million for a stadium like this. 
But umm, just wondering...Are you going to stop calling them "metro" and show some gratitude to your new owners who built you a nice stadium? :lol:


----------



## Ganis

all current soccer stadiums in the US are going to evolve and grow. give it time


----------



## D.D.

Bori427 said:


> That's because they're mostly cubans, *colombians*, venezuelans and puerto ricans, soccer is not the most popular sport in those countries/territories.


lol what? Soccer is like a religion in Colombia... you need to be better informed :lol:


----------



## Bori427

^^Well, it's nothing compared to Argentina, Brazil or Uruguay.


----------



## jean1991

Ive gone to Colombia and they are crazy about soccer, soccer there its as big as it is in those countries you mentioned. Just because their national team is not as good and famous as those countries' national teams doesnt mean the sport isn's big over there.


----------



## nyrmetros

SIC said:


> But it's no gonna happen, no one else has owners willing to foot 200 million for a stadium like this.
> But umm, just wondering...Are you going to stop calling them "metro" and show some gratitude to your new owners who built you a nice stadium? :lol:


no. The Yankees are still the Highlanders to me, and the Red Bulls will always be Metro to me. I am still hoping that Red Bull decides to sell the team, but keep the stadium and it's naming rights. Maybe 1 day we can have Metro SC or something like that. haha


----------



## Ganis

nyrmetros said:


> no. The Yankees are still the Highlanders to me, and the Red Bulls will always be Metro to me. I am still hoping that Red Bull decides to sell the team, but keep the stadium and it's naming rights. Maybe 1 day we can have Metro SC or something like that. haha


now you have issues. Its not going to happen.


----------



## metros11

Ganis said:


> now you have issues. Its not going to happen.


Perhaps not anytime soon, but eventually it is bound to happen.


----------



## koolio

metros11 said:


> Perhaps not anytime soon, but eventually it is bound to happen.


I can bet any amount of money that it won't happen.


----------



## nyrmetros

JYDA said:


> ^^^Metrostars. Many fans refuse to refer to the team by its new corporate name.


Thank you.


----------



## nyrmetros

Ganis said:


> I like New York Red Bulls


Most NY/NJ MLS fans don't. We have no problem with them owning the team/stadium......


----------



## Ganis

What's wrong with owning the team and the stadiums? Most owners do that.


----------



## JYDA

You misread. He said fans have "no problem" with them owning the stadium and team. It's just naming the team the New York Red Bulls which is considered to be crossing the line. It's gotten to the point where the team has been overwhored for lack of a better word.


----------



## parcdesprinces

^^ The same with Red Bull Salzburg fans, formerly "Austria Salzburg". They never stopped to be furious and they recreated a new "Austria Salzburg" which has restarted last year in a lower division....

Long Live to this new/old Club !


----------



## tritown

Too bad they can't do that here, w/o promo/rel. New York is creating a USL team, though, called New York City Football Club, that is supposed to be located in Queens, I believe.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

tritown said:


> Too bad they can't do that here, w/o promo/rel. New York is creating a USL team, though, called New York City Football Club, that is supposed to be located in Queens, I believe.


Would that be the same one that the Wilpons were rumored to be trying to get a bid in for 2010 or 2011 for the MLS? Or is that an independent project?


----------



## Bobby3

It's a new one. They're playing at Hofstra first with an eye on building a stadium in Queens.

Some games could be played at Icahn on Randell's Island.


----------



## Horatio Caine

tritown said:


> Too bad they can't do that here, w/o promo/rel. New York is creating a USL team, though, called New York City Football Club, that is supposed to be located in Queens, I believe.


It would be cool if a team was formed on Manhattan. Then NJ, NY City and Queens/Long Island would have their own teams.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Only problem is that they wouldn't have anywhere to play. Don't know of any place on the island that could actually host a professional team.


----------



## hubemx

Inwood Hill Park, High Bridge Park? The could put a 25,000 soccer stadium in one of those places.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Any team not named the New York Yankees would run into a political hell hole trying to build a stadium over parkland. Although those two are quite expansive.


----------



## metros11

tritown said:


> Too bad they can't do that here, w/o promo/rel. New York is creating a USL team, though, called New York City Football Club, that is supposed to be located in Queens, I believe.


FC New York will be playing on Long Island, which is kind of funny because at the press conference they announced themselves as New York's first real team.


----------



## metros11

ElVoltageDR said:


> Would that be the same one that the Wilpons were rumored to be trying to get a bid in for 2010 or 2011 for the MLS? Or is that an independent project?


Independent project, however 2010 or 2011 is impossible. 2012 or later dates are open, but lets face it, in this economy it is very unlikely to happen.


----------



## RPM

metros11 said:


> FC New York will be playing on Long Island, which is kind of funny because at the press conference they announced themselves as New York's first real team.


Long Island IS in New York, the Meadowlands and Harrison are in New Jersey. Have the RedBulls ever played a game within the New York state borders?


----------



## Horatio Caine

ElVoltageDR said:


> Only problem is that they wouldn't have anywhere to play. Don't know of any place on the island that could actually host a professional team.


If they'd ever get to there senses and clean up the area between Manattan and Brooklyn Bridge, you'd have space for a stadium and a whole lot of real estate. 
I mean, there's got to be a smarter way of putting all of these exits and ramps than how it is now? 
Put them underground! And pay for it by building skyscrapers on top of it.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

RPM said:


> Long Island IS in New York, the Meadowlands and Harrison are in New Jersey. Have the RedBulls ever played a game within the New York state borders?


I'm guess they were referring to New York City, in which case they would be wrong.


----------



## metros11

RPM said:


> Long Island IS in New York,


So is Rochester.



RPM said:


> Have the RedBulls ever played a game within the New York state borders?


Yes, US Open Cup matches at St. John's and Hofstra Universities.

Lets be real here, Giants Stadium or even Red Bull Arena are closer to Manhattan then Hofstra. If you're going to claim to be New York's first 'real' team, then play in the city. But they're not, and highly doubt that they will. New Yorkers are not stupid, they'll ignore FC New York in Long Island even worse then they've ignored the Metrostars/Red Bulls.


----------



## Ganis

*MLS Philly 2010 to unveil team details
Club set to announce name, colors and ticket information May 11*

PHILADELPHIA -- Major League Soccer Philadelphia 2010 has revealed the date for an announcement ceremony to unveil the club's name, colors, logo and ticket pricing. The celebration will be hosted at City Hall by Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter on Monday, May 11 at 11:30 a.m.
The Mayor will be joined by team, local and state officials when MLS Philadelphia reveals its long-awaited identity with just over 10 months remaining before First Kick. Club supporters and soccer enthusiasts are encouraged to join the historic festivities in Dilworth Plaza on the west side of City Hall at the intersection of 15th and Market Streets.

"This is truly a defining moment for our franchise, and we couldn't be more excited to proclaim our identity to the soccer world and our loyal fans," said MLS Philadelphia CEO & Operating Partner Nick Sakiewicz. "We've created an authentic brand that reflects Philadelphia's deep-rooted history and the wealth of feedback gathered from our supporters. The arrival of top-flight soccer in Philadelphia is about to feel decidedly more tangible."

The club recently held a "Fan Vote" campaign enabling supporters to choose among four proposed team names or submit a write-in vote.

"Our team name, logo and colors will shape the foundation of our identity," added MLS Philadelphia President Tom Veit. "The process of developing our character will continue when we hire a coaching staff, sign players and expand our front office. We're dedicated to doing things the right way and building an organization that represents the hard work and passion of Philadelphians throughout the Delaware Valley."

With well over 6,000 season ticket deposits collected to date, the team will also announce ticket pricing for the under-construction 18,500 seat stadium along the Delaware River waterfront in Chester, Pa. Current season ticket depositors will then have 30 days to add seats to their accounts using their existing priority number. For more information on becoming a season ticket holder, please visit www.mlsphilly2010.com.


----------



## Ganis

and Portland is set to be the Timbers?

Are they going to build a soccer specific stadium?


----------



## GunnerJacket

JYDA said:


> One thing that was really bugging me last year was the way MLS players were acting like a union with no ambition.


To be fair the event was concocted with marginal business sense, especially considering the recent evolution of the CL. It's one of the weakest moves MLS has made of late, considering how well they've tried to tightly coordinate the league's financial growth and exposure. If they were the EPL then yes, more games = more money. Alas, they're not EPL and somehow missed the value of that equation. :bash: 


Bobby3 said:


> I would've stipped one of MLS' spots and allocated it to the USL, an MLS spot, not the Open Cup spot.


Not really there to give, but this underscores the faults in the original concept. I'm thinking the Superliga is more about added US exposure for Mexican clubs than anything else. Meanwhile US fans shouldn't let Puerto Rico's run define the ultimate value of MLS or USL. Both leagues and their clubs have much room for improvement, but this is something to be measured over time.


----------



## thescene

We should get official confirmation of the team name and logo of the Philly team in the next few minutes.


----------



## Bobby3

GunnerJacket said:


> To be fair the event was concocted with marginal business sense, especially considering the recent evolution of the CL. It's one of the weakest moves MLS has made of late, considering how well they've tried to tightly coordinate the league's financial growth and exposure. If they were the EPL then yes, more games = more money. Alas, they're not EPL and somehow missed the value of that equation. :bash:
> Not really there to give, but this underscores the faults in the original concept. I'm thinking the Superliga is more about added US exposure for Mexican clubs than anything else. Meanwhile US fans shouldn't let Puerto Rico's run define the ultimate value of MLS or USL. Both leagues and their clubs have much room for improvement, but this is something to be measured over time.


I mean the CL spots, the USSF should punish MLS for that stunt they pulled. 6-1 on aggregate to Joe freaking Public?


----------



## soup or man

PHILADELPHIA, May 11 /PRNewswire/ -- Philadelphia Union was officially unveiled today as the name of Major League Soccer's 16th franchise by Mayor Michael Nutter, with City Hall serving as an appropriately historic backdrop for the momentous announcement. The region's newest professional sports team simultaneously revealed its logo and colors as the countdown to First Kick continues. 


"This is a special day for our devoted fan base and the people of the Greater Philadelphia Region," said Philadelphia Union Principal Owner Jay Sugarman. "We're incredibly fortunate to have fans who understand the power of loyalty and unity, and our team identity draws its inspiration from them and from the importance these qualities have played in the history of Philadelphia."


Union references the original Thirteen Colonies, which established the foundation of the United States of America. The club's colors are navy blue and gold, symbolizing the uniforms of the American Continental Army, accented by the lighter shade of blue found in the Philadelphia Flag. The primary symbol of a rattlesnake is derived from Ben Franklin's political cartoons and was featured in multiple editions of the Pennsylvania Gazette during the 1750's. The rattlesnake was utilized to emphasize the necessity of colonial unity and serve as a reminder of the danger of disunity. Franklin's rattlesnake gained enormous popularity and evolved into a primary symbol of the American Revolution.


"We were determined to create an identity that portrays Philadelphia's vital role in the evolution of our nation - the Union," said Philadelphia Union CEO & Operating Partner Nick Sakiewicz. "Every element in our crest represents a product of unity. Our fans have proven they possess the type of passion that soccer is known for worldwide, and the culture of our organization will always be to embrace it. There isn't a single better example of the collective strength we are striving to achieve than the inception of the United States of America."


Complementing the rattlesnake, 13 stars are displayed along the base of the crest as another nod to the Thirteen Colonies of the Union. The crest's interior shield represents Philadelphia's Coat of Arms, which is found in both the Flag of Philadelphia and the Seal of the City of Philadelphia. 'Jungite aut Perite', a Latin translation of 'Join or Die', is featured in the club's secondary logo. 'Join or Die' was displayed by Ben Franklin in unison with the rattlesnake to stress the importance of colonial unity. 


"The key to any branding process is collaborating with the right creative partner," said Club President Tom Veit. "Silverman Group did an excellent job of helping us distill the true essence of our supporters and the Philadelphia region. Our crest embodies Philadelphia's influential role in the formation of this country, and we're confident that it'll stand the test of time."


Philadelphia Union will play in a state-of-the-art 18,500 seat waterfront stadium in Chester, Pa. beginning in 2010. The stadium features 30 luxury suites, premium seating, an 11,000 square foot Stadium Club and a 2,000 seat supporters club section. Additionally, there is a built-in music stage for world-class music shows, interactive entitlement zones and large promenades surrounding the stadium for festivals and tailgates. 


"We're pleased to see Major League Soccer add a progressive yet authentic soccer brand with today's unveiling of Philadelphia Union," said MLS Commissioner Don Garber. "We look forward to the club's debut next March and the rivalry with the New York Red Bulls and D.C. United."


Season tickets officially went on sale today, with seat selection determined by the order in which tickets are reserved. Ticket prices and seating configuration for the under-construction stadium were revealed today along with team name, logo and colors. Additional information can be found on the club's new website, philadelphiaunion.com.


The club also released an inaugural gear package of adidas t-shirts, hats and hoodies available for purchase at philadelphiaunion.com, mlsgear.com, eurosport.com, Angelo's Soccer Corner, Modell's, Dick's Sporting Goods and The Sports Authority.


"The addition of Philadelphia Union to the local professional sports scene is a shining example of the regionalism that I have spoken about since my time on City Council," said Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter. "With a world-class stadium set to stand strong in Chester, Pa. and Philadelphia proudly emblazoned on the club's jerseys, the world will see the strength and unity of our Greater Philadelphia Region."


----------



## JYDA

GunnerJacket said:


> To be fair the event was concocted with marginal business sense, especially considering the recent evolution of the CL. It's one of the weakest moves MLS has made of late, considering how well they've tried to tightly coordinate the league's financial growth and exposure. If they were the EPL then yes, more games = more money. Alas, they're not EPL and somehow missed the value of that equation. :bash:
> Not really there to give, but this underscores the faults in the original concept. I'm thinking the Superliga is more about added US exposure for Mexican clubs than anything else.


Marginal business sense? The tournament pays a million dollars to the winner and still makes a bunch of money. The millions of mexicans in the united states with far more disposable income than their brethren down south drive sponsorship and TV money for this event.


----------



## GunnerJacket

JYDA said:


> Marginal business sense? The tournament pays a million dollars to the winner and still makes a bunch of money. The millions of mexicans in the united states with far more disposable income than their brethren down south drive sponsorship and TV money for this event.


By that I meant for the MLS clubs. As an individual enterprise I can't say, but from the MLS teams they've implied the investment isn't yet worth it and fear an overabundance of specialty competitions that confound fans and diminish the value of the regular season. One MLS team rep last year said they wished they could've concentrated fan attention and attendance at MLS events rather than Superliga.

If it works, great, but the MLS season and US open Cup need the attention, not Superliga.


----------



## JYDA

Good points and I principally agree. MLS's marketing arm (Soccer United Marketing) puts on all these events (Superliga, interliga, gold cup, CCL, mexican national team friendlies) which brings in a ton of revenue to the league.... but at a cost. MLS needs Mexicans to follow the league but they're not going to when they have so many opportunities to see Mexican teams live all the time. When a mexican attends a superliga match they're always going to cheer for the mexican team and therefore cheer against the MLS team which sets a bad precedent. MLS should look at how Blanco created a wave of Mexican interest in Chicago and try to replicate that elsewhere.


----------



## Ganis

we should have all tv stations block the showing of Mexican league games. That will work.


----------



## GunnerJacket

I'd be happier with a greater emphasis on MLS as THE national league, including some more prestige for the regular season champion. Needs some scheduling changes, however, and increased visibility down the stretch. Are CL and Superliga spaces allocated by league finish? If not, they should be. (Perhaps in that light I'd accept a Superliga as a true counterpart to Europa League, but the name would need a change.)

Then there's the need to resolve the whole MLS/USL relationship issue, but that's another thread.

- - - - -

Kudos to Philly for officially joining the big boys, today. Great turn out for the rally, love the colors and logo and can't wait to see the stadium. Oh how great it would be for the league/northeast if DC also had their own digs.


----------



## bigbossman

Why don't you hold your playoffs during the following season rather than after it. And only allow the top four from each division into it. Then during the season you have 3 objectives, win your division (like winning a domestic league in europe), finish in the top four of your division (like europe), win the MLS cup the following season, or this season if you are in it (the champions league). Both competitions would have equal prestige without diminishing one an other, just an idea??

Also you guys say that you have parity to stop big market teams dominating. How about you put more teams in bigger markets to balance out their dominance. Like in Europe bigger cities have more teams?? New york could sustain 5-6 teams if Salt lake city can sustain one, then maybe you could remove the cap etc??


----------



## soup or man

DC United needs to get out of RFK. It's too old and too big.


----------



## Bobby3

Ganis said:


> we should have all tv stations block the showing of Mexican league games. That will work.


So they should block all Steelers and Redskins games south of Virginia because people come and cheer for them in the South?

Here's the second reason people in the US support Mexican teams: They existed first. You can't demand someone switch loyalties because Big Mike from the 'burbs went out and bought the city a franchise with money from his used car dealerships.


----------



## gugasounds

Ganis said:


> we should have all tv stations block the showing of Mexican league games. That will work.


That´s impossible, I mean i´ts like blocking the NFL games in Mexico.
Mexican league has a lot of fans.


----------



## JYDA

gugasounds said:


> That´s impossible, I mean i´ts like blocking the NFL games in Mexico.
> Mexican league has a lot of fans.


There was a bit of sarcasm in what he was saying


----------



## JYDA

GunnerJacket said:


> I'd be happier with a greater emphasis on MLS as THE national league, including some more prestige for the regular season champion. Needs some scheduling changes, however, and increased visibility down the stretch. Are CL and Superliga spaces allocated by league finish?


They are. Teams 1 to 4 to the Champions League and 5 to 8 go to Superliga.


----------



## Ganis

bigbossman said:


> Why don't you hold your playoffs during the following season rather than after it. And only allow the top four from each into it. Then during the season you have 3 objectives, win your division (like winning a domestic league in europe), finish in the top four (like europe), win the MLS cup the following season (the champions league). Both competitions would have equal prestige without diminishing one an other, just an idea??
> 
> Also you guys say that you have parity to stop big market teams dominating. How about you put more teams in bigger markets to balance out their dominance. Like in Europe bigger cities have more teams?? New york could sustain 5-6 teams if Salt lake city can sustain one, then maybe you could remove the cap etc??


We understand playoffs better then what the rest of the world does with its soccer champion seeding. I confused my dad when i explained how the champions league worked.


----------



## nyrmetros

Damn I am hating the NYRB logo more and more. ugh.

anyway. Superliga is fake and CCL is real. that's what matters.


----------



## gugasounds

I really think that Superliga is a fake tournamente created by Justino Compeán and Decio de María to make some money instad of some good football.


----------



## bigbossman

Ganis said:


> We understand playoffs better then what the rest of the world does with its soccer champion seeding. I confused my dad when i explained how the champions league worked.


how is the champions league confusing or are you talking about qualifcation for it??

Seeding in our comps is a legacy to the fact that all these tournaments used to be unseeded, and a lot of people don't like seeding as they say you'd have to beat them anywy, blah blah


----------



## Ganis

nyrmetros said:


> Damn I am hating the NYRB logo more and more. ugh.
> 
> anyway. Superliga is fake and CCL is real. that's what matters.


We get it, you hate that your team is now the New York Red Bulls.. PLEASE STOP!


----------



## en1044

Ganis said:


> We get it, you hate that your team is now the New York Red Bulls.. PLEASE STOP!


Yeah you dont say things over and over either.


----------



## Ganis

Thats a count down, not constantly repeating my self.


----------



## El Mariachi

soup or man said:


> Btw..that's Latin for 'Join or Die.'


is this the official logo. It looks pretty cool. The snake was always one of my favorite U.S. symbols


----------



## en1044

El Mariachi said:


> is this the official logo. It looks pretty cool. The snake was always one of my favorite U.S. symbols


Dont tread on me!


----------



## soup or man

El Mariachi said:


> is this the official logo. It looks pretty cool. The snake was always one of my favorite U.S. symbols


That's the secondary logo.


----------



## hngcm

soup or man said:


> Btw..that's Latin for 'Join or Die.'


Why is it in latin...


----------



## dl3000

Because mottos are usually in latin. Though Liverpool's isn't so I don't know.


----------



## soup or man

hngcm said:


> Why is it in latin...


From wiki:



> Join, or Die is a famous political cartoon created by Benjamin Franklin and first published in his Pennsylvania Gazette on May 9, 1754. The original publication by the Gazette is the earliest known pictorial representation of colonial union produced by a British colonist in America.It is a woodcut showing a snake severed into eighths, with each segment labeled with the initial of a British American colony or region. However, New England was represented as one colony, rather than the four colonies it was at that time. In addition, Delaware and Georgia were omitted completely. Thus, it has 8 segments of snake rather than the traditional 13. The cartoon appeared along with Franklin's editorial about the "disunited state" of the colonies, and helped make his point about the importance of colonial unity. During that era, there was a superstition that a snake which had been cut into pieces would come back to life if the pieces were put together before sunset.


Btw..if you didn't know already, the 13 stars in the crest represent the original 13 colonies that joined the Union (Delaware, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Georgia, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maryland, South Carolina, New Hampshire, Virginia, New York, North Carolina, Rhode Island).

This logo (as well as the team name) carries a LOT of American history in it. One of the few logos that do.


----------



## Ganis

soup or man said:


> That's the secondary logo.


what's the primary?


----------



## Ganis

it would be cool if they used the SoB logo.


----------



## soup or man

^ That one. And where did you find those uniforms?


----------



## Bobby3

dl3000 said:


> Because mottos are usually in latin. Though Liverpool's isn't so I don't know.


YNWA is, as you know, the club's anthem. I believe it and the flames were added to the crest in memorial of the 96 who died at Hillsborough.

Most mottos are in latin though, you're correct. Here are some:

Arsenal - Victoria Concordia Crescit (Victory through harmony)
Benfica - E Pluribus Unum (Out of many, one) :: Also the United States' national motto.
Blackburn Rovers - Arte et labore ([Through] skill and labor)
Bristol City - Vim promovet insitam (Promotes your inner strength) :: From Bristol University.
Bury - Vincit Omnia Industria (Hard work overcomes all)
Elgin City - Sic itur astra (Thus we reach to the stars)
Everton - Nil satis nisi optimum (Only the best is good enough)
Kilmarnock - Confidemus (We trust)
Manchester City - Superbia in proelia (Pride in battle)
Plymouth Argyle - Semper fidelis (Always faithful) :: Known to Americans for it's connection to the Marines.
Queen's Park - Ludere causa ludendi (To play for the sake of playing) :: Queen's famously resist professionalism.
Tottenham Hotspur - Audere est facere (To dare is to do)
Sheffield Wednesday - Consilio et anamis (Intelligence and courage)
Stockport County - Animo et Fide ([With] courage and faith)
Sunderland - Connectatio Excellentiae (In search of excellence)

I always had a soft spot for the State of South Carolina's rather romantic "Dum spiro spero", or "As I breathe, I hope".


----------



## Ganis

soup or man said:


> ^ That one. And where did you find those uniforms?


GOOGLE!


----------



## krudmonk

Ganis said:


> GOOGLE!


Did you just make up this "Google?"


----------



## Ganis

http://images.google.com/images?hl=...result&cd=1&q=Philadelphia+Union+Logo&spell=1

2nd row, 3rd from the left


----------



## metros11

soup or man said:


> And I personally think that one of the best logos (and name) in American sports was in the WNBA. The old Miami Sol.


Then you'll be happy to know the Sol name has been revived in form of a WPS team.


----------



## metros11

soup or man said:


> DC United needs to get out of RFK. It's too old and too big.


Pretty soon you'll get your wish. How does St. Louis sound to you?


----------



## metros11

Ganis said:


> it would be cool if they used the SoB logo.


This is a mock-up that one of the SoBs did.


----------



## hngcm

Damn what did they do to you...no reason to call them SOB's lol

jk


----------



## JYDA

Red Bull Arena now has an interior cam that pans around the stadium every few minutes. 

http://www.earthcam.com/clients/redbullarena/?cam=2

Exterior cladding has started as well.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Awesome.


----------



## nyrmetros

great news indeed. That thing looks massive from the view from the PATH train.


----------



## nyrmetros

The subway stop at Harrison


----------



## Mr. Potato Head

^^ It's going to be beauty, I'm currently a red bulls season ticket holder.


----------



## Mr. Potato Head

nyrmetros said:


> Damn I am hating the NYRB logo more and more. ugh.
> 
> anyway. Superliga is fake and CCL is real. that's what matters.


The Superliga is a money grab tournament created by SUM. The CCL might be real, but will never gain prestige until we ban CONCACAF teams (basically the mexican ones) from participating in South America's Copa Libertadores. Until then we're going to continue to seeing teams half ass their way through this tournament.


----------



## JYDA

Mr. Potato Head said:


> The Superliga is a money grab tournament created by SUM. The CCL might be real, but will never gain prestige until we ban CONCACAF teams (basically the mexican ones) from participating in South America's Copa Libertadores. Until then we're going to continue to seeing teams half ass their way through this tournament.


Mexico has severed all ties with CONMEBOL (for now) in the wake of the swine flu and years of alleged mistreatment and unfairness. CONCACAF exec Chuck Blazer said a few weeks ago that CONCACAF will review their relationship with CONMEBOL and decide whether or not to continue permitting their teams to compete in south american competitions.


----------



## Mr. Potato Head

^^ You know they're going to get back in bed in a matter of weeks. CONMEBOL sold itself out to the massive sponsorship money the mexican clubs were bringing. Plus the Spanish bank that currently sponsors the competition is already pressuring CONMEBOL to give in since they have a very large investment in Mexico. There's even talks that they might increase the Mexican berths to 5 teams after the whole fiasco . I'm not going to lie though, I would say **** the CCL as well if the MLS could get spot in Libertadores.


----------



## JYDA

^^^ exactly. When it happened I thought it was a genius power play. I remember seeing a stat that more than 50% of the Libertadores' tv revenue comes from mexico and the united states. Forcing CONMEBOL to face the wrath of the sponsors was genius in many ways. 

And I totally feel yah on Libertadores. I'd rather the CCL just be absorbed by Libertadores and then regionalize some of the groups like they do in asia to eliminate some of the more extreme travel distances. Libertadores participation would earn MLS more legitimacy than ten million david beckhams ever will.


----------



## berkshire royal

^^
Getting US teams into the Copa Libertadores would be a big step towards getting MLS and the CL more recognition and money. With 2014 going to Brazil their will be a jump in money anyway but introducing American teams into the competition will bring an extra dimension into the competition it would be a great idea. I personally think that certain confederations need to be merged they need to merge Oceania with Asia that’s an obvious one. They also need to merge North and South America, I think there are two few nations in South America and in the long run having MLS and US National teams competing with the best in South America will bring extra money and will also help the US teams develop.

On topic Red Bull Arena will be the best stadium by a mile and the new Philly stadium is a copy of half the stadiums in the MLS. It seems to me that the Red Bulls are getting some decent investment their new training facility looks pretty tidy surely it will be the best in MLS, and I am sure that investment in players will go up when they move to the new stadium. They may be a corperate team but they do have ambitious owners.


----------



## krudmonk

With CONCACAF and CONMEBOL merged, there would still be fewer members than UEFA and CAF, and just a couple more than AFC. However, there would be many more minnows.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

I think the CCL could be kept, but maybe in the capacity of a UEFA/Europa Cup. I'd love to see MLS teams allowed into the Libertadores though.


----------



## GunnerJacket

I agree it'd be nice to pool the talent and showcases together somehow or keep Mexico's focus on developing things within CONCACAF. How about we simply make an annual match-up against the winner of each confederation's competition approx. 2 weeks later? (A Super Bowl, if you will). Or have a merger when each competition has reached their final four, so as to keep travel costs down?

Makes you wonder, though, for just these purposes should there even be two confederations? CONCACAF will ever be dominated by Mexico and the US, that only regional leagues among the smaller nations might reduce the gap and/or raise the overall calibre of play. Apart from Oceana I can't see other confederations experiencing this level of disparity.

Just thinking out loud.


----------



## Bobby3

At club level, Costa Rica is traditionally stronger than the US actually. An American team has never won in Costa Rica.


----------



## JYDA

Bobby3 said:


> At club level, Costa Rica is traditionally stronger than the US actually. An American team has never won in Costa Rica.


that's an illusion because the Costa Rican league is a top heavy farce. Saprissa's won 5 straight titles without breaking a sweat and three clubs have won almost all of the titles in the league's existence. Internationally, leagues are usually judged by the performances of their superclubs and as unfair as that is, it never bodes well for MLS with its parity.


----------



## gugasounds

I really don´t see MLS teams in Santander Libertadores competitions in the near future.
South American teams hate to travel so far to play here in Mexico.
When there was the thing of H1N1 flu one of the solutions that femexfut gave conmebol, was to play in L.A and Miami. Sao Paulo and Nacional rejected this proposal saying it was far awy from brazil and uruguay.
I belive that someday MLS will be at the same level that Mexican Primera Division, The same as Costa Rican league, Honduras league, etc.
CONCACAF has future and its grrowing a lot specially in the U.S and Central America!


----------



## Mr. Potato Head

Bobby3 said:


> At club level, Costa Rica is traditionally stronger than the US actually. An American team has never won in Costa Rica.


One super club does no make a league better. The rest of the Costarican teams are very underfunded.


----------



## Bobby3

Mr. Potato Head said:


> One super club does no make a league better. The rest of the Costarican teams are very underfunded.


As JYDA said. Saprissa is no doubt a giant, but they have two other noteworthy clubs too. Alajuelense and to a lesser extent Puntarenas.

The national team itself has a bit of fight to it as well but they run hot and cold.


----------



## GunnerJacket

More importantly the US, Mexico and to a degree Canada will always be the political and economic powers of the confederation, and likely to such a lopsided degree that it skews the values and depth of the confederations members. Apart from Oceana the other confederations are more balanced and likely much deeper overall, which could have negative effects on efforts like the CCL. Hence my open questioning about the structure of the confederations and/or their events.


----------



## nyrmetros

Mr. Potato Head said:


> One super club does no make a league better. The rest of the Costarican teams are very underfunded.


Saprissa is a well known name, and Coasta Rica has 1 or 2 more clubs that are good. The rest are well below MLS teams. But what people know of the Costa Rican league is that Saprissa can compete, therefore the league must be good. At any rate.

I'm sure 1 day Conmebol and Concacaf might merge their club operations, but they will never merge their country operations.

I could see this.

Copa Libertadores becomes the club championship for North and South America.
Copa Sudeamerica becomes the club championship for Souther America
CCL becomes the club championship for North America, Central America, and Carribean.

Superliga dies because it's nothing more than a money grab.


----------



## GunnerJacket

nyrmetros said:


> I could see this.
> 
> Copa Libertadores becomes the club championship for North and South America.
> Copa Sudeamerica becomes the club championship for Souther America
> *CCL becomes the club championship for North America, Central America, and Carribean.*


Don't reach too far there.


----------



## gugasounds

^^^^

Nope, that will never happen.
I really can´t imagine MLS teams in Libertadores. For south americans and latins in general, it has a very special meaning: Our Independence from Spain and Portugal, a tribute for people like Bolívar, San Martín. Hidalgo, etc.
It´s more than just a football competition it has a very special meaning for us. 
U.S fans don´t have that same passion that we latins have for this sport.


----------



## JYDA

David Faitelson of ESPN deportes reported a while back that MLS reached a deal with CONCACAF and CONMEBOL to get a sole preliminary round spot in Libertadores starting in 2011 after the current Interliga contract expires. I haven't heard or read anything since so it might've been hogwash


----------



## Mr. Potato Head

gugasounds said:


> ^^^^
> 
> Nope, that will never happen.
> I really can´t imagine MLS teams in Libertadores. For south americans and latins in general, it has a very special meaning: Our Independence from Spain and Portugal, a tribute for people like Bolívar, San Martín. Hidalgo, etc.
> It´s more than just a football competition it has a very special meaning for us.
> U.S fans don´t have that same passion that we latins have for this sport.


Really? Tell that to the South Americans who hate having the Mexican clubs participate.


----------



## whoshotsam

*HARRISON, N.J. - RED BULL ARENA (25,189)*

This soccer-specific stadium, currently under construction and scheduled for completion in time for the beginning of the 2010 season, will be the new home of the New York Red Bulls of Major League Soccer. It is also possible that the local women's team, SkyBlue FC, will play here. In addition, it is likely to host other sporting events sponsored by Red Bull GmbH.










The Red Bulls, founded in 1995 as NY/NJ MetroStars - one of the original clubs of MLS - have never won MLS Cup, but did get the championship game last year, where they lost to Columbus.

An artist's rendering of the completed stadium:










Some recent photos of construction...
































































Here is a schematic that shows the proximity of the new stadium to New York City...










The Harrison PATH train station is a short ride from Manhattan.

And finally, a video walkthrough...

Red Bull Arena Video

The original plan called for a mixed commercial/residential development surrounding the stadium, but the economic downturn has slowed progress there. It is likely that when the stadium opens, there will still be little commercial development around the stadium. However, the Ironbound section of Newark - an ethnic neighborhood of Newark just across the Passaic River - is host to a number of great bars and restaurants.


----------



## Carrerra

Why does this stadia have an independent thread? This is under 30K, so, can't have its own thread.


----------



## Ozric

Awesome, it's starting to come together now with the facade going up. It really does look very similar to the stadium in Klagenfurt.


----------



## whoshotsam

Carrerra said:


> Why does this stadia have an independent thread? This is under 30K, so, can't have its own thread.


I was not aware that it was one of the criteria, and in fact I see plenty of stadia below with lower spectator capacities. If the mods would like to move or delete then they can.


----------



## Carrerra

Plenty of stadia????? Name them, if any. I haven't seen threads about 30K- stadiums


----------



## whoshotsam

OK, I see that those are in fact arenas. Looks like this one misses the cut by a few thousand. Sorry to trouble you.

Mods, please delete.


----------



## massp88

This is shaping up to be the finest soccer only facility in North America. The stands are going to be right on top of the field which is a great move, this place will probably be the loudest in the MLS.


----------



## lpioe

How did attendances develop for other MLS teams after they moved from a football stadium into a SSS?


----------



## massp88

lpioe said:


> How did attendances develop for other MLS teams after they moved from a football stadium into a SSS?


That's a good question. One things for sure, the experience must have improved greatly. 18,000 fans in a 22,000 seat stadium feels and looks better than 18,000 fans in a 66,000 seat stadium.


----------



## Ganis

most SSS in America are designed for future expansion for when and if soccer grows to average attendance over 30,000 (crossing my fingers) They will grow like many old college stadiums have over the past 80 or so years. One lower bowl, then add a small tier to one side, then to the other side. Connect the tiers. So on and so on. Red Bulls have a nice stadium but will it be able to expand when the league is doing more then 30,000 a game???


----------



## parcdesprinces

Ganis said:


> will it be able to expand when the league is doing more then 30,000 a game???


If they rebuild the roof it will be possible, I think.

Old Trafford is a good example of expansion :


----------



## Ganis

exactly. just not so patchy.


----------



## salaverryo

parcdesprinces said:


> If they rebuild the roof it will be possible, I think.
> 
> Old Trafford is a good example of expansion :


Old Trafford shouldn't be an example of anything. The roofs are bigger than the stadium itself. The whole thing is so out of proportion it looks simply grotesque.


----------



## bigbossman

where exactly is harrison in proximity to New york? Are they gonna become Red bull new york metro area? 

Just a question which i am not sure i have asked, how about that load the big metros with more teams, then take off the cap?


----------



## Ganis

Its in New Jersey.


----------



## bigbossman

^^ i gathered that, but i meant as the crow flies, is it actually in the Urban area yadda yadda etc etc


----------



## Ganis

i have no idea


----------



## parcdesprinces

salaverryo said:


> Old Trafford shouldn't be an example of anything. The roofs are bigger than the stadium itself. The whole thing is so out of proportion it looks simply grotesque.


I'd never said it's beautifull !

It was simply an example of expansion, with new roof....

If you prefer, I could take Bernabeu as example (they kept the same roof) !


----------



## tritown

bigbossman said:


> ^^ i gathered that, but i meant as the crow flies, is it actually in the Urban area yadda yadda etc etc


I think it's about 10 miles. The nice thing is that you can take the metro to get there from Manhattan.
Currently, RBNY play at an NFL stadium, which is about the same distance from Manhattan, but does not have transit to get there that I know of. At least not a train. There are lots of other problems of course, like gridiron lines, 15,000 fans in a stadium the size of Old Trafford, and a host of other problems.


----------



## tritown

lpioe said:


> How did attendances develop for other MLS teams after they moved from a football stadium into a SSS?


In some cases attendances have been stagnant. FC Dallas is a good example. Their new stadium is much, much further away from the population center than their old one, so that understandably affects attendance.
Probably the best thing about SSS are that they improve the bottom line of the teams and help them stay fiscally viable.


----------



## GunnerJacket

lpioe said:


> How did attendances develop for other MLS teams after they moved from a football stadium into a SSS?


First, the info. I'm discounting Salt Lake as they've only been in there new digs half of last season. Red numbers represent first _full season_ in their new stadium (Chicago and Dallas opened midway through season before).

*Chicago, 1998-2008*
17,887
16,016
13,387
16,388
12,922
14,005
17,153
17,238
14,111
16,490
17,034

*Colorado, 1996-2008*
10,213
11,835
14,812
14,029
12,580
16,481
20,690
16,772
14,195
13,638
12,056
14,749
13,659

*Columbus, 1996-2008*
18,950
15,043
12,275
17,696
15,451
17,511
17,429
16,250
16,872
12,916
13,294
15,230
14,622

*Dallas, 1996-2008*
16,011
9,678
10,948
12,211
13,102
12,574
13,122
7,906
9,088
11,189
14,982
15,145
13,024

*LA, 1996-2008*
28,916
20,626
21,784
17,632
20,400
17,387
19,047
21,983
23,809
24,204
20,814
24,252
26,009

While it first appears the new stadiums don't mean an increase in attendance, keep in mind the new venues prohibit the type of double-billed showcase games that occasionally boosted attendance at the larger NFL venues. Sometimes the avg may say X but was artificially increased by one game listed with 40-60k fans so as to see a Celtic match, a Mexican club, or David Beckham. So hopefully what we're seeing now are more correct reflections of support, and that those numbers remain solid if not improving and that the atmosphere is much, much better. Most importantly these venues allow the clubs to control schedules, costs and revenues. If the trend is every club having a 20k stadium with 16k+ in attendance that would be pretty solid, economically, especially if a few like LA, Seattle and Toronto continue to raise the bar.

I'd contend Dallas has been helped, Colorado is headed in that direction and LA we'll have to reserve until gauging the post-Beckham effect.


----------



## lpioe

^^ Thanks for the info.
There certainly is a positive effect, it's not as big as when european teams move into a new stadium though. That's probably because many european clubs had really bad stadiums (often with tracks) when they decided to build a new one.


----------



## JYDA

Another factor that's underestimated is the importance of location. Many of the new stadiums are out in the suburbs rather than at the focal point of each city. I suspect a team like Chicago would regularly average 23,000 or so if their new stadium was centrally located downtown. This is partly why I worry about Red Bull Arena. Yes, the transit links are much improved but they will still have to battle a lot of stigma. For most New Yorkers, going to New Jersey is like going to the moon. The case of the New Jersey Devils is worrying as they boasted about all the improved transit links at their new Prudential Center yet attendance got worse. The Nets have the right idea in moving to the boroughs. A stadium in one of the boroughs on the MTA subway line would've been the way to go.


----------



## GunnerJacket

lpioe said:


> ^^ Thanks for the info.
> There certainly is a positive effect, it's not as big as when european teams move into a new stadium though. That's probably because many european clubs had really bad stadiums (often with tracks) when they decided to build a new one.


Plus, as implied, they were moving into smaller venues that prohibited the chance at single, huge event games of 40k+ that might bolster the averages, and it's not as if they were abandoning decrepit venues that acted as deterrents for attendance. Their European counterparts are almost always moving out of truly aged structures into something larger and splashier. For MLS clubs it's more about intimacy and nary any fancy amenity is involved.

And, "you're welcome!" I was interested in seeing all the attendance data, anyway. :cheers: 


JYDA said:


> Another factor that's underestimated is the importance of location. Many of the new stadiums are out in the suburbs rather than at the focal point of each city. I suspect a team like Chicago would regularly average 23,000 or so if their new stadium was centrally located downtown. This is partly why I worry about Red Bull Arena. Yes, the transit links are much improved but they will still have to battle a lot of stigma. For most New Yorkers, going to New Jersey is like going to the moon. The case of the New Jersey Devils is worrying as they boasted about all the improved transit links at their new Prudential Center yet attendance got worse. The Nets have the right idea in moving to the boroughs. A stadium in one of the boroughs on the MTA subway line would've been the way to go.


I'm not in complete agreement with this fear/theory. Each case appears to have unique reasons for why it should succeed. In the RBNY case, north Jersey has long been a hotbed for footie while the presence of the Giants and Jets nearby reinforces the notion that metro/urban NY really is that large, or at least that accessible. Frisco appears a bet that the area will grow rapidly and strongly enough to offset the distance from urban Dallas, while SLC and Colorado went fishing for some growth but in areas known for youth soccer and households with expendable income. (To say nothing of available land!) Chicago I can't say for sure but I recall their story being comparable to NY - An inner suburb looking for something to spark redevelopment and give the community an identity. Same seems to be the case with Philly.

Bottom line, continued growth should compensate for the perceived weaknesses of many suburban locations. In the meantime these venues should allow the MLS to nurture its financial well being and independent identity such that true fans won't mind the locations and MLS can survive whatever inconveniences come about. After all, any choice will likely feature large %'s of the fans traveling from 20 miles away, anyway. Thus, I feel the appropriate adage here is "_Build it (right) and they will come._"


----------



## nyrmetros

good discussion indeed.


----------



## tritown

Additionally, RBNY already play in NJ anyway. The move seems to be to a better location, not a worse location.

The best move would of course be if NE ever build in Somerville, which is close to Boston, as opposed to Providence.


----------



## ramvid01

bigbossman said:


> ^^ i gathered that, but i meant as the crow flies, is it actually in the Urban area yadda yadda etc etc


Where they currently play is is considered the metroplitan area, but it is in the middle of a swamp and as someone noted there is no rail transporation (just a bus from a train). However the new location will be in a more urban setting (which was an industrial area that they are redeveloping) and it located just two or three blocks from a subway (not a communter) rail making it millions of times more accessible.

Ironically sometime this summer they will open the new commuter rail station at the Meadowlands for the new Giants Stadium. Too bad it is about 20 years too late.


----------



## metros11

JYDA said:


> Another factor that's underestimated is the importance of location. Many of the new stadiums are out in the suburbs rather than at the focal point of each city. I suspect a team like Chicago would regularly average 23,000 or so if their new stadium was centrally located downtown. This is partly why I worry about Red Bull Arena. Yes, the transit links are much improved but they will still have to battle a lot of stigma. For most New Yorkers, going to New Jersey is like going to the moon. The case of the New Jersey Devils is worrying as they boasted about all the improved transit links at their new Prudential Center yet attendance got worse. The Nets have the right idea in moving to the boroughs. A stadium in one of the boroughs on the MTA subway line would've been the way to go.


While you are correct about New Yorkers traveling to New Jersey, this location is by far the best possible location in Jersey. And NYC is simply out of the question. Not only is it a block away from the path station, but it's also location in Harrison, which is a hotbed for soccer. Let me put it to you this way, Harrison doesn't have basketball courts, they have soccer courts. The town next to Harrison, Kearny, has produced some of the best US Soccer players, such as Tony Meola, John Harkes, and Tab Ramos. On the other side you have the Newark Ironbound section, which is populated by Portuguese and Brazilian immigrants. So when it comes to putting the stadium in the middle of a soccer loving community, they really really lucked out in that respect! And this area isn't suburban either.

As far as the Devils and Nets. The Devils have always had attendance issues. I remember one year going to a Metrostars game at the same time that the Devils had a playoff game. The Devils game wasn't even sold out, and there were more people at the Metrostars game that day. Keep in mind that Hockey far outweighs soccer in popularity here. The current problem for the Devils at Prudential Center is the price of the tickets. There are plenty of hockey fans like myself who love to go see a game, but you can't get a ticket in the lower bowl for under $100! To me that's absolutely absurd. And about the Nets moving to Brooklyn... I'll believe that when the arena is actually built. Until then it's nothing but a pipe dream.


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## nyrmetros

what Metros11 said.


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## metros11

bigbossman said:


> ^^ i gathered that, but i meant as the crow flies, is it actually in the Urban area yadda yadda etc etc


If you want to get an idea of how far the stadium would be from Manhattan (8 miles) click on the following link http://www.seats3d.com/mls/new_york_red_bulls/, then on the navigation bar up top select 'Site Overview'.


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## nyrmetros

good views all around.


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## bigbossman

metros11 said:


> If you want to get an idea of how far the stadium would be from Manhattan (8 miles) click on the following link http://www.seats3d.com/mls/new_york_red_bulls/, then on the navigation bar up top select 'Site Overview'.


that's actually pretty close in relative terms, it's closer than i live to the centre of London and i definately live in London, as an aside it's strange that NY is like half a city i mean that the areas west of the hudson haven't been annexed like in elsewhere. Especially as the team is call Red Bull New york...


----------



## sbutlik

*Chester*










http://www.kickstartchester.com/about/artistrenderings/


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## Scba

I'll believe all that when I see it.


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## MJinOshkosh

bigbossman said:


> that's actually pretty close in relative terms, it's closer than i live to the centre of London and i definately live in London, as an aside it's strange that NY is like half a city i mean that the areas west of the hudson haven't been annexed like in elsewhere. Especially as the team is call Red Bull New york...


 That unannexed part that you refer to is in the state of New Jersey not in the state of New York Where New York City is in. You can't annex something in one state coming in from another state.


----------



## ryebreadraz

sbutlik said:


> http://www.kickstartchester.com/about/artistrenderings/


That's actually an old rendering. Now the roof will only cover the sidelines:


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## hngcm

Went from great to crap.


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## metros11

El Cholo said:


> Roof is badly needed in Houston for the summer. Every other stadium here, even has the field covered with a roof.


The roof is only needed if you're playing in the middle of the day with a beating sun. If the majority of the matches are at night they're okay without a full roof.


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## nyrmetros

I wonder what the most inexpensive full roof would look like and cost ??


----------



## salaverryo

Horatio Caine said:


> US Soccer just qualified for the semi finals of the confederations cup.
> 
> ANYTHING can happen!


Anything DID happen. The USA beat Spain in the semi-finals.:nuts:


----------



## sbutlik




----------



## gugasounds

hahahahahaha!!! his face :hahaha:


----------



## Luke80

Looks nice, but a full roof would be nice.


----------



## sbutlik

*New EarthQuakes Stadium Design*


----------



## Ganis

where is the stage gonna be


----------



## SJAnfield

sbutlik said:


>


This is actually an old design. The front office has said they will coming out with the official render in about a month. They said they didn't want the team playing in a cookie cutter MLS stadium so they scrapped the plans. They said they are going for unique. The only detail they gave was that there will be a roof covering all the stands.

Luckily its a sure thing. they have already recieved all the approval they need from the city.


----------



## nyrmetros

That's great news for Houston then.


----------



## nyrmetros

anyone have pics of the Gold Cup stadiums in action?


----------



## nyrmetros

I was at the game in Philly last night. Anyone find some good pics of the field/crowd?


----------



## hngcm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3HfzORAz7U


----------



## Ganis

Dallas Cowboys Stadium





































82,252 in attendance for Mexico v Haiti


----------



## trmather

Do we have any evidence that someone was able to take a corner in that game?


----------



## salaverryo

^^ Good point. Reminds me of the joke: "How do porcupines make love?" Answer: "With difficulty". By the way, the back of the net in both goals was held in place with *sandbags*. So much for technology...
An attendance of over 82 thousand is more than the Cowboys will ever get.
The stadium looks awesome, though.


----------



## rantanamo

trmather said:


> Do we have any evidence that someone was able to take a corner in that game?


watched yesterday and there was a lot more space than I would have thought. 2 of the goals were off of nice corners.

And the Cowboys are expecting 100,000 for their home opener. Jerry said they've already sold well over the 80,000 normal capacity.


----------



## krudmonk

Sorry, but where do you squeeze in 20K people? That's the size of many soccer stadia as is.


----------



## ryebreadraz

I watched the match and the stadium was truly impressive. The only thing that was sub-par was the turf. It was as good as other turf, but soccer and turf just don't mesh well.


----------



## Ganis

salaverryo said:


> An attendance of over 82 thousand is more than the Cowboys will ever get.


idiot remark of the year nomination


----------



## Billpa

ryebreadraz said:


> this stadium undoubtedly deserves to host some WC matches,


Maybe, but they _just_ built it. :nuts: It's not like they couldn't have planned better. I can't imagine saying a stadium _deserves_ to host an NFL game if there wasn't enough room for proper end zones.


----------



## MRichR

metros11 said:


> http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/soccer/stories/071209dnsposoccer.92f07f.html
> 
> They didn't spend $1.2 Billion without having the World Cup in mind. The field size will work.


They built it with football (american) in mind. Period. That is and always will be the big money maker for the stadium. NFL, college, and high school games. The fact that a soccer field can squeeze into it is a nice coincidence.


----------



## salaverryo

Ganis said:


> idiot remark of the year nomination


Check out the Cowboys' attendances at home, dummy. See if you can find one that even *approaches* 80 thousand. If they had that kind of pull they would have built a bigger stadium years ago.


----------



## MRichR

salaverryo said:


> Check out the Cowboys' attendances at home, dummy. See if you can find one that even *approaches* 80 thousand. If they had that kind of pull they would have built a bigger stadium years ago.


Um, of course it never approached 80 thousand. That's impossible when the old stadium only had seating for around 60,000. Do you have any idea how popular football (american) is in Texas? It's like a religion. There's a reason they made it expandable to 100,000 seats, and it wasn't because of soccer.


----------



## SIC

krudmonk said:


> A jackhammer? They just built it! If Jerry's such an idiot that he lacks the foresight to properly accommodate soccer, screw him. There are plenty of other cities.


The world cup would be in 2022 or beyond.

I don't think they'd have to rip out any of the suites, just their patios. Although I'm not an architect, but a man who spent 1 billion dollars on a stadium, doesn't seem like the sqeamish type for me. He'd probably foot the bill, although I'm sure the event should pay for itself.


----------



## ryebreadraz

Chelsea vs. Seattle Sounders from Qwest Field in Seattle (65,289):


----------



## Ganis

you have to copy and paste the image address not the web page address.


----------



## KingmanIII

I never understood why FIFA must be so fussy over pitch dimensions. I mean, I understand how something such as an artificial playing surface can adversely affect how the ball bounces, but does the playing area being 2 or 3 metres short _really_ compromise the integrity of a match? Is it no longer the same beautiful game?

Ultimately it coms down to whether Jones or the Dallas/Fort Worth area really _needs_ the World Cup. Jerryworld could realistically host two Super Bowls before the USA wins another WC bid. There's also a very good chance the stadium could become part of the Bowl Championship Series rotation. So, with all of this on the table, and competition for a WC bid being so fierce, would it truly profit Jerry to genuflect to FIFA and potentially sacrifice millions in corporate suite revenue? 

Personally, I believe the UK deserves one of the next two bids far more than anyone else in the world right now. The fact that they will have gone at least half a century without hosting a WC is incomprehensible.


----------



## Ganis

why doesn't ever stadium hosting soccer in the USA use those LED media boards at field level?


----------



## Ganis

KingmanIII said:


> I never understood why FIFA must be so fussy over pitch dimensions. I mean, I understand how something such as an artificial playing surface can adversely affect how the ball bounces, but does the playing area being 2 or 3 metres short _really_ compromise the integrity of a match? Is it no longer the same beautiful game?
> 
> Ultimately it coms down to whether Jones or the Dallas/Fort Worth area really _needs_ the World Cup. Jerryworld could realistically host two Super Bowls before the USA wins another WC bid. There's also a very good chance the stadium could become part of the Bowl Championship Series rotation. So, with all of this on the table, and competition for a WC bid being so fierce, would it truly profit Jerry to genuflect to FIFA and potentially sacrifice millions in corporate suite revenue?
> 
> Personally, I believe the UK deserves one of the next two bids far more than anyone else in the world right now. The fact that they will have gone at least half a century without hosting a WC is incomprehensible.


Jerry Jones would love to host 1 ir 2 world cup games because it will grow the Cowboy name. When the cameras before the game pan around and you see the cowboys championship banners in the rafters, the commentators will say something to the effect of.. "We are liver From Arlington texas in the United States in Cowboys Stadium, home of The American Football NFL Dallas Cowboys" That small sentence is worth millions to Jerry, and it will be said 3 or 4 times during the match and for 2 or 3 other games.

And also i agree, I want to see a WC in the UK before USA. UK 2018 US 2022


----------



## Billpa

Ganis said:


> the commentators will say something to the effect of.. "We are liver From Arlington texas in the United States in Cowboys Stadium, home of The American Football NFL Dallas Cowboys" That small sentence is worth millions to Jerry, and it will be said 3 or 4 times during the match and for 2 or 3 other games.


What do you think will happen? Footy fans the world-over will suddenly (in the middle of the WC) get a hunger for NFL football? You remind me of the American Super Bowl play-by-play announcers who parrot the NFL company line about how many countries around the world are "tuned in" as if there are millions of people in Poland (or wherever) who don't watch a single NFL match all season long suddenly staying up till four in the morning (a MONDAY morning) to watch the Cardinals battle the Steelers.


----------



## metros11

Alemanniafan said:


> Only if the pitch is at least 105x 68 meters and the inside of the stadium 120x80 meters otherwise they'll surely never ever host any soccer WC match.
> The Fifa has extremely strict regulations on the stadia for hosting a WC and they surely won't make any exceptions for the US, no matter how great and nice all those stadia you have are for amercian football.
> The Fifa is going to demand top of the line facilities in terms of soccer wherever a Worldcup is being hosted. Even South Africa provides those top of the line soccer facillities, for the WC there and the US will surely have to provide that too.
> There won't be the slightest possibillities for any type of discussions with the Fifa. Those 105 x68 meters for the pitch and 120x 80 meters for the inside of the stadium as the minimum are aproximately about 1000000% sure. Either you have enough stadia that provide these minimum sizes, or you won't get to host a soccer Worldcup. Then Belgium & Netherlands or Russia or whatever other countries in the world are gladly going to win the bid against the US, because those countries will all be able to provide these type of top facillities for soccer.
> And just to give an example how tough the competition to host an important soccer event is.
> For the last European Cup in Austria and Switzerland in 2008 they temporarily doubled the size of their small stadium in Insbruck form a capacity of about 15k to 30k for some mindblowing 30 mio € , just for those three Cup matches in order to meet the minimum requirements of the Uefa to win the bid. The temporary aluminum stands were simply just dismatled and shreddered afterwards.
> If Austria can invest 30 mio € into a singe stadium for just three Euro Cup matches to meet the absolute minimum requirements, the US will surely find some way to make sure all the stadia will meet the Fifa's minimum requirements. Keep in mind that a soccer WC is a gigantic event and business, even bigger than the olympic games.
> The pitches which the games will be played on surely won't be downsized to fit into a football arena. Modern football stadiums hosting WC matches are most likely simply just going to be modified temporarily if necessary and possible, or they won't be chosen to host WC matches. That simple, and the money necessary to adapt those few stadia that need adaptions will surely be provided by the government somehow, or the US simply just won't have the slightest chance to win a bid.


Keep thinking that. The problem with your assessment is that you conclude that FIFA runs the World Cup for the love of the game. I'm 100% sure that the World Cup is a money making scheme for FIFA hierarchy. US has the biggest stadiums, and therefore the biggest tickets revenue, it will get the 2022 WC.


----------



## metros11

ryebreadraz said:


> They made them once, but they won't be made again.


Show me factual proof of this! Until then, this is only your speculation, one that I totally disagree with. If anything FIFA has set a precedent with the 1994 WC the exceptions can be made, especially in USA's case.


----------



## metros11

salaverryo said:


> Check out the Cowboys' attendances at home, dummy. See if you can find one that even *approaches* 80 thousand. If they had that kind of pull they would have built a bigger stadium years ago.


I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but considering that you made your remark without knowing anything about the NFL and the Cowboys' popularity, it was certainly an idiot remark.


----------



## Mo Rush

Pitch requirements won't be changing. Moving along.


----------



## ryebreadraz

metros11 said:


> Show me factual proof of this! Until then, this is only your speculation, one that I totally disagree with. If anything FIFA has set a precedent with the 1994 WC the exceptions can be made, especially in USA's case.


I said that I heard it from Sunil Gulati himself when I was able to sit in on a roundtable that he was in. It wasn't something I read or anything like that so I can't provide you proof. You can believe me if you'd like, but Gulati said that they won't even ask FIFA for exceptions on field dimensions so it won't even make it to FIFA. The extra space around the field is something that may look for exceptions on, which isn't rare and FIFA has okayed in other WC's recently. If you don't want to believe me, I won't be heartbroken.


----------



## rantanamo

salaverryo said:


> Check out the Cowboys' attendances at home, dummy. See if you can find one that even *approaches* 80 thousand. If they had that kind of pull they would have built a bigger stadium years ago.


The old stadium had a capacity of just over 65,000. The Cowboys have been looking to expand and/or move since the mid-90s. We've seen the Tom Landry "Fedora" stadium, the Cotton Dome, and downtown "flying saucer" design. All fell through, so here we are with a more appropriate capacity.

The first regular season game has already sold over 80,000, and stadium officials expect over 100,000 people for that game.

As for field dimensions I really don't see the big deal here. The easiest thing to do to a stadium is to remove a few rows at the bottom and replace them with retractable ones. Its simply alarmist conjecture to say any stadium is "too narrow" when the corners can be removed later. JerryWorld's corners made the playing field ~5 meters short of being wide enough for FIFA's World Cup regulations. This space can be made up on the patio space of the corner suites. Grass can be grown in the stadium the year of a World Cup. Make your money now. Promise these simple renovations when the time comes, then make them. This is a simple problem, while other countries are scrambling to add roofs, construct entire stadiums, provide enough media space and build all new infrastructure. Jerry himself said FIFA is in Dallas, attending matches and consulting with him on exactly what they need to do.


----------



## ryebreadraz

rantanamo said:


> The old stadium had a capacity of just over 65,000. The Cowboys have been looking to expand and/or move since the mid-90s. We've seen the Tom Landry "Fedora" stadium, the Cotton Dome, and downtown "flying saucer" design. All fell through, so here we are with a more appropriate capacity.
> 
> The first regular season game has already sold over 80,000, and stadium officials expect over 100,000 people for that game.
> 
> As for field dimensions I really don't see the big deal here. The easiest thing to do to a stadium is to remove a few rows at the bottom and replace them with retractable ones. Its simply alarmist conjecture to say any stadium is "too narrow" when the corners can be removed later. JerryWorld's corners made the playing field ~5 meters short of being wide enough for FIFA's World Cup regulations. This space can be made up on the patio space of the corner suites. Grass can be grown in the stadium the year of a World Cup. Make your money now. Promise these simple renovations when the time comes, then make them. This is a simple problem, while other countries are scrambling to add roofs, construct entire stadiums, provide enough media space and build all new infrastructure. Jerry himself said FIFA is in Dallas, attending matches and consulting with him on exactly what they need to do.


I'm not sure about the size of those patios, which is why I'm a little hesitant to say that they can easily add the space for the necessary dimensions. If it's just the patios that need to be removed and they don't have to cut into the suites then I don't forsee any problems there. The field will be a little tougher though. To put grass in for a year would require that they rip out everything below the turf, install an irrigation system and lay turf over it. This is under the assumption that the field would get enough sun light to grow properly. The more likely solution is to roll out grass over the turf, but I don't forsee that grass lasting more than two weeks, which would allow them to host the group stages, but no knockout stages. This is all 9 or 13 years away though so there could very well be new methods for grass by then. Hopefully so because this stadium would make for a great WC host.


----------



## JYDA

Ganis said:


> Jerry Jones would love to host 1 ir 2 world cup games because it will grow the Cowboy name. When the cameras before the game pan around and you see the cowboys championship banners in the rafters, the commentators will say something to the effect of.. "We are liver From Arlington texas in the United States in Cowboys Stadium, home of The American Football NFL Dallas Cowboys" That small sentence is worth millions to Jerry, and it will be said 3 or 4 times during the match and for 2 or 3 other games.
> 
> And also i agree, I want to see a WC in the UK before USA. UK 2018 US 2022


Jerry Jones will be sorely disappointed then. FIFA doesn't allow any of that at the world cup. They fully take over the stadium, remove all banners and sponsor logos and redecorate the place the way they want it. They even change the name to strip out any reference to anything other than the city the stadium is in. It would simply be called Dallas Stadium for the duration of the tournament.


----------



## ryebreadraz

JYDA said:


> Jerry Jones will be sorely disappointed then. FIFA doesn't allow any of that at the world cup. They fully take over the stadium, remove all banners and sponsor logos and redecorate the place the way they want it. They even change the name to strip out any reference to anything other than the city the stadium is in. It would simply be called Dallas Stadium for the duration of the tournament.


I think they would allow Dallas Cowboys Stadium. They usually remove sponsorship names unless it's one of their official sponsors, but they may allow a team name. Either way, by 2018 or more likely, 2022, the stadium will certainly have a naming rights deal. Maybe Jerry Jones makes sure to get an official FIFA sponsor to get more money from them an insure that the the name can stay for the WC?


----------



## SIC

ryebreadraz said:


> I'm not sure about the size of those patios, which is why I'm a little hesitant to say that they can easily add the space for the necessary dimensions. If it's just the patios that need to be removed and they don't have to cut into the suites then I don't forsee any problems there. The field will be a little tougher though. To put grass in for a year would require that they rip out everything below the turf, install an irrigation system and lay turf over it. This is under the assumption that the field would get enough sun light to grow properly. The more likely solution is to roll out grass over the turf, but I don't forsee that grass lasting more than two weeks, which would allow them to host the group stages, but no knockout stages. This is all 9 or 13 years away though so there could very well be new methods for grass by then. Hopefully so because this stadium would make for a great WC host.


You're assuming that they wouldn't relay it for the knockout stages. Last week, the seattle sounders layed grass for a single game against Chelsea. I'm assuming they still made a nice profit despite the 100k cost. So relaying it for the knockout stage isn't out of the question.

Yeah, although the tournament is so far away that theres time to modify the stadium.


----------



## ryebreadraz

SIC said:


> You're assuming that they wouldn't relay it for the knockout stages. Last week, the seattle sounders layed grass for a single game against Chelsea. I'm assuming they still made a nice profit despite the 100k cost. So relaying it for the knockout stage isn't out of the question.
> 
> Yeah, although the tournament is so far away that theres time to modify the stadium.


I believe I heard that it takes about 5 days for them to lay down the grass, then let it settle so it's a decent surface. It would probably take a day to rip out the old grass, then another 5 days to lay the new grass and let it settle. I guess if it's set up so they don't host the last couple of days of the group stage, then host one of the last Round of 16 matches or no Round of 16 matches and only a Quarterfinal then it could work.


----------



## Ganis

JYDA said:


> Jerry Jones will be sorely disappointed then. FIFA doesn't allow any of that at the world cup. They fully take over the stadium, remove all banners and sponsor logos and redecorate the place the way they want it. They even change the name to strip out any reference to anything other than the city the stadium is in. It would simply be called Dallas Stadium for the duration of the tournament.


Good luck telling Jerry to take down 7 super bowl banners (Wish full thinking) Emmit Smiths all time leading rusher banner and covering the ring of honor. If the name does not change to a corporate sponsor then they will have to call it by its name. The Cowboys Stadium.

You really think FIFA is going to tell the most successful, most profitable and most popular sports franchise in the world (check Forbes if you dont believe me) what to do?


----------



## krudmonk

If Dallas is going to be this arrogant, just go to Houston.


----------



## ryebreadraz

Ganis said:


> Good luck telling Jerry to take down 7 super bowl banners (Wish full thinking) Emmit Smiths all time leading rusher banner and covering the ring of honor. If the name does not change to a corporate sponsor then they will have to call it by its name. The Cowboys Stadium.
> 
> You really think FIFA is going to tell the most successful, most profitable and most popular sports franchise in the world (check Forbes if you dont believe me) what to do?


FIFA will tell them to do it and if they want to host, they will do it. If they can tell Bayern Munich, Manchester United, Barcelona, etc. to do it then they can tell the Cowboys to do it. Those are FIFA's rules and I'm sure Jerry Jones knows all about them. He knows what he'll have to do.


----------



## lpioe

Ganis said:


> Good luck telling Jerry to take down 7 super bowl banners (Wish full thinking) Emmit Smiths all time leading rusher banner and covering the ring of honor. If the name does not change to a corporate sponsor then they will have to call it by its name. The Cowboys Stadium.
> 
> You really think FIFA is going to tell the most successful, most profitable and most popular sports franchise in the world (check Forbes if you dont believe me) what to do?


:lol::lol:
Most succesful? How do you measure that?
Most popular? You can not be serious...

Anyway I'm sure there are more than enough venues in the US ready to do what FIFA wants them to do.


----------



## El Mariachi

seems like alot of hoops to jump through just to get a few soccer games.


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

Ganis said:


> You really think FIFA is going to tell the* most successful, most profitable and most popular sports franchise in the world (check Forbes if you dont believe me) what to do*?


 :lol: Perhaps in gridiron, sports wise certainly not.


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

El Mariachi said:


> seems like alot of hoops to jump through just to get a few soccer games.


 Few games that will bring them more money and world wide exposure than any other game that would be played there.


----------



## ryebreadraz

The thing is that at the end of the day, FIFA does not need a US World Cup and a US World Cup does not need Cowboys Stadium. Now, FIFA would like to have a World Cup here IMO and the USSF would like Cowboys Stadium to be a host, but they don't need it. If Jerry Jones doesn't want to cooperate, there are plenty of other cities willing to step in and do what is asked of them. It wouldn't be ideal, but it's far from a catastrophe and the World Cup would go off just fine without Cowboys Stadium.


----------



## jean1991

hahahaha Most popular, what a joke...Manchester United, Arsenal, Liberpool, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Barca, Bayern Munich, Inter, Milan, New York Yankees, etc. There are a lot of teams more popular around the world, A LOT.


----------



## Alemanniafan

ryebreadraz said:


> FIFA will tell them to do it and if they want to host, they will do it. If they can tell Bayern Munich, Manchester United, Barcelona, etc. to do it then they can tell the Cowboys to do it. Those are FIFA's rules and I'm sure Jerry Jones knows all about them. He knows what he'll have to do.


There is a slight chance I do see. Stadium names that are not sponsored names are often allowed by the Fifa. Tivoli for example is a stadiumname that could surely be used in a soccer worldcup. In the 2006 WC in Germany they did keep some of the stadium names.



> Die Stadionnamen für die WM 2006:
> Berlin: Olympiastadion
> Dortmund: Westfalenstadion
> Frankfurt: Waldstadion
> Gelsenkirchen: Arena AufSchalke
> Hamburg: FIFA WM-Stadion Hamburg
> Hannover: FIFA WM-Stadion Hannover
> Kaiserslautern: Fritz-Walter-Stadion
> Köln: FIFA WM-Stadion Köln
> Leipzig: Zentralstadion
> München: FIFA WM-Stadion München
> Nürnberg: Franken-Stadion
> Stuttgart: Gottlieb-Daimler-Stadion


(source:http://www.handelsblatt.com/archiv/fifa-legt-namen-fuer-wm-stadien-fest;839074 

The names Westfalestadion, Arena auf Schalke for example or even Gottlieb-Daimler-Stadion which is named after a founder of the German car maker Daimler Benz were in fact allowed and used officially during the WC. 

Cowboys Stadium might in fact really work for a WC venue, if it's not viewed as the teamname from the Dallas Cowboys or part of it, but rather as the original term Cowboys like back in the wild west. That might be a chance to convice the Fifa to allow that name during a WC, but I'm not sure if the Fifa would really go along with that type of argumentation. I would't count or bet on that, but it might work, after all the stadium names in the 2006 WC in Germany were often kinda simmilar cases.


----------



## ryebreadraz

^^^^ I believe I stated earlier that there's a chance the stadium name would stay, although by 2018 or 2022 they'd almost assuredly have a naming rights deal, making that point mute. What we're arguing is whether or not FIFA would require them to take down their Cowboys Super Bowl banners and cover up things specifically regarding the team, Cowboys. I think Ganis is the only one who actually believes that Jerry Jones and the Cowboys can dictate to the USSF and FIFA.


----------



## MRichR

SpicyMcHaggis said:


> Few games that will bring them more money and world wide exposure than any other game that would be played there.


More world wide exposure? Probably, but only of soccer fans who don't watch the NFL anyway.

More money than Superbowls that will be there? Playoff games? Not a chance. Not even close. Most of you obviously just don't get how much money the NFL is. In terms of value of franchises, according to Forbes Manchester is #1, yes, but the Cowboys are #2 worth an estimated $1.6 Billion, with the Washington Redskins close behind at #3, and the New England Patriots at #4. 6 of the top 10 most valuable franchises are in the NFL, and overall, 19 of the 30 teams in the NFL have an estimated worth of over $1 Billion, with the "cheapest" being Minnesota Vikings worth over $800 million. In other words: if it comes down to a question of changing the stadium for a few soccer games, even if it's world cup, vs. changing the stadium in ways that take out areas that bring in revenue for the NFL, the stadium's not getting changed.


----------



## Alemanniafan

ryebreadraz said:


> ^^^^ I believe I stated earlier that there's a chance the stadium name would stay, although by 2018 or 2022 they'd almost assuredly have a naming rights deal, making that point mute. What we're arguing is whether or not FIFA would require them to take down their Cowboys Super Bowl banners and cover up things specifically regarding the team, Cowboys. I think Ganis is the only one who actually believes that Jerry Jones and the Cowboys can dictate to the USSF and FIFA.


Well yes that's for sure ... wether the name stays or not, WC venues have to be all freed from any type of sponsoring or marketing or brands and their symbols. They have to be all "clean" simply because the Fifa earns a lot of money with their sponsors and they surely won't let anyone use the WC to promote whatever, without paying a lot of hard cash for that.


----------



## weava

SpicyMcHaggis said:


> Few games that will bring them more money and world wide exposure than any other game that would be played there.


They will be hosting a SUPER BOWL, that will be bigger than some opening round soccer game.


----------



## ryebreadraz

weava said:


> They will be hosting a SUPER BOWL, that will be bigger than some opening round soccer game.


You are aware that the 2006 World Cup Draw, where they do nothing more than pick balls out of a cup, had 320 million viewers worldwide. As a comparison, Super Bowls have a little over 100 million viewers usually.


----------



## MRichR

ryebreadraz said:


> You are aware that the 2006 World Cup Draw, where they do nothing more than pick balls out of a cup, had 320 million viewers worldwide. As a comparison, Super Bowls have a little over 100 million viewers usually.


And how many of those viewers will translate into revenue for Jerry Jones and the Cowboys? A small percentage compared to those watching the superbowl. The Superbowl will bring in far more money to Jerry than a quarter or semifinal world cup game. And by 2022 Dallas will have hosted multiple superbowls. 

As of 2007, nearly 4 times that of the world cup:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=2749584


----------



## rantanamo

MRichR said:


> And how many of those viewers will translate into revenue for Jerry Jones and the Cowboys? A small percentage compared to those watching the superbowl. The Superbowl will bring in far more money to Jerry than a quarter or semifinal world cup game. And by 2022 Dallas will have hosted multiple superbowls.
> 
> As of 2007, nearly 4 times that of the world cup:
> 
> http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=2749584


Have to agree with that assessment. If he has to choose, its multiple Superbowls. Its all about who exactly is watching vs big numbers. Especially if he's not going to host the final, which everyone here seems to be assuring us of. Jerry doesn't need the World Cup, but US bid needs Jerry.

But why does Jerry have to choose. He wants in. In construction terms, even simply making the field tray flat on each sideline would take relatively minor construction if its recommended to him. Again, Jerry Jones himself said FIFA officials are in Dallas consulting Jerry on how to make the stadium ready for the World Cup. Sounds like he's serious to me.


----------



## MRichR

rantanamo said:


> Have to agree with that assessment. If he has to choose, its multiple Superbowls. Its all about who exactly is watching vs big numbers. Especially if he's not going to host the final, which everyone here seems to be assuring us of. Jerry doesn't need the World Cup, but US bid needs Jerry.
> 
> But why does Jerry have to choose. He wants in. In construction terms, even simply making the field tray flat on each sideline would take relatively minor construction if its recommended to him. Again, Jerry Jones himself said FIFA officials are in Dallas consulting Jerry on how to make the stadium ready for the World Cup. Sounds like he's serious to me.


But if advertising in the stadium would have to be removed, that would be a huge hurdle to clear and a big decision, as the revenue from that advertising makes up a big chunk of the team's revenue. And you can be sure that the contract for such deals would include big buyouts for removing the advertisements during big events.


----------



## en1044

first off, let me start off with a nice












Ganis said:


> Good luck telling Jerry to take down 7 super bowl banners (Wish full thinking)


Jerry will do what FIFA tells him to do. You include your stadium in a WC bif KNOWING that you will not have full control over everything. I dont expect you to know this however, because I remember a time when you weren't even aware that the stadium would be hosting soccer. Do your research, its getting tiring always having to correct you. 



> Emmit Smiths all time leading rusher banner and covering the ring of honor. If the name does not change to a corporate sponsor then they will have to call it by its name. The Cowboys Stadium.


They will do what it takes.



> You really think FIFA is going to tell the most successful, most profitable and most popular sports franchise in the world (check Forbes if you dont believe me) what to do?


Theres no way to tell who the world's most popular team is. And if there was, the Cowboys wouldnt be it. And yes, FIFA would be able to tell them what to do, regardless of the team's popularity status. For some reason you seem to think that Dallas is above everyone else and doesnt have to adhere to the rules. Thank you for continuing the perception that Texans are ignorant asses.


----------



## Billpa

Ganis said:


> most popular sports franchise in the world


:lol::nuts::lol::nuts::lol:

Good One!
But seriously... you don't think the Cowboys are the World's most popular team do you? A team that plays sixteen or seventeen games per year and is followed in only three countries (really just the US, Canada and _perhaps_ Mexico) is the most popular sporting club on the planet?


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

MRichR said:


> More world wide exposure? Probably, but only of soccer fans who don't watch the NFL anyway.
> 
> More money than Superbowls that will be there? Playoff games? Not a chance. Not even close. Most of you obviously just don't get how much money the NFL is. In terms of value of franchises, according to Forbes Manchester is #1, yes, but the Cowboys are #2 worth an estimated $1.6 Billion, with the Washington Redskins close behind at #3, and the New England Patriots at #4. 6 of the top 10 most valuable franchises are in the NFL, and overall, 19 of the 30 teams in the NFL have an estimated worth of over $1 Billion, with the "cheapest" being Minnesota Vikings worth over $800 million. In other words: if it comes down to a question of changing the stadium for a few soccer games, even if it's world cup, vs. changing the stadium in ways that take out areas that bring in revenue for the NFL, the stadium's not getting changed.


 Forbes lists are ridiculous. They are applicable to US sports franchises but certainly not to European sports which function in completely different way. One of the main assets in their NFL team value evaluation is stadium. Most of the Euro stadiums are owned by local council. Some teams don't even have owners... its just too complex to rate it like that.


----------



## Billpa

And something else...you think "Jerry", your buddy apparently, would be willing to remove seats and extend the field in the corners but not remove a banner?


----------



## krudmonk

Billpa said:


> And something else...you think "Jerry", your buddy apparently, would be willing to remove seats and extend the field in the corners but not remove a banner?


No! Don't mess with Texas!



Reliant Stadium looks pretty awesome right now...


----------



## Bobby3

Ganis said:


> Good luck telling Jerry to take down 7 super bowl banners (Wish full thinking) Emmit Smiths all time leading rusher banner and covering the ring of honor. If the name does not change to a corporate sponsor then they will have to call it by its name. The Cowboys Stadium.
> 
> You really think FIFA is going to tell the most successful, most profitable and most popular sports franchise in the world (check Forbes if you dont believe me) what to do?


Here's what would happen

Dallas: We won't remove the banners
FIFA: I think you should
Dallas: The Cowboys are massive
Charlotte or Nashville: HI!
FIFA: Hi there


----------



## metros11

Ganis said:


> You really think FIFA is going to tell the most successful, most profitable and most popular sports franchise in the world (check Forbes if you dont believe me) what to do?


Yes. FIFA as an organization is Dallas Cowboys X 100.


----------



## Ganis

SpicyMcHaggis said:


> Forbes lists are ridiculous. They are applicable to US sports franchises but certainly not to European sports which function in completely different way. One of the main assets in their NFL team value evaluation is stadium. Most of the Euro stadiums are owned by local council. Some teams don't even have owners... its just too complex to rate it like that.


They put Man U as number 2 in the world. 

Like Rantonomo (i think i butchered that) said, Jerry does not need the World Cup, The US bid committee needs Jerry to get the World Cup.

If Jerry Jones can Single Handedly make the NFL the most profitable business in the world (He coordinates TV contracts, Merchandising deals and advertising) then I think FIFA should listen to him. A US World Cup will play more towards making Soccer more popular in the USA. No need to expand to the world market if you already control the world market, but they dont control the US market so i think FIFA should listen to NFL owners on how to get the American Audience.


----------



## krudmonk

Ganis said:


> If Jerry Jones can Single Handedly make the NFL the most profitable business in the world (He coordinates TV contracts, Merchandising deals and advertising) then I think FIFA should listen to him. A US World Cup will play more towards making Soccer more popular in the USA. No need to expand to the world market if you already control the world market, but they dont control the US market so i think FIFA should listen to NFL owners on how to get the American Audience.


FIFA can have a great World Cup here without your town or its team.


----------



## Ganis

Sure they can. Lets not include the 4th largest media market in the United States.


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## Billpa

Ganis said:


> If Jerry Jones can Single Handedly make the NFL the most profitable business in the world (He coordinates TV contracts, Merchandising deals and advertising) then I think FIFA should listen to him. .


You need to get your head out of Jerry Jones' "ear"-
Single-handedly made the NFL as profitable as it is? There's no doubt about the Cowboys' role in the league as a whole but give me a break-the other teams play a part in the NFL's success as well. And as far as FIFA goes, you've shown you haven't a CLUE how much bigger football (soccer) is than the NFL. If Fifa wants to hold another world cup in the US it would be great if they could play some of the games in Dallas but it's not impossible to imagine a successful world cup without Dallas. As someone else pointed out they could always play in Houston.


----------



## rantanamo

why is this so hard. Its not a matter of telling someone what to do. FIFA has regulations. If you want in you follow the regulations. Why is it so hard to understand? and FIFA is not Dallas Cowboys x 100. They are a regulatory body. 

As for Forbes, they actually have people that go out and research that stuff. Its funny how people outside the US think that private businesses in the US are somehow patriotic. They'd sell the rest of us to the Chinese government as cheap labor if it would add to their profit.


----------



## Alemanniafan

rantanamo said:


> ...
> As for Forbes, they actually have people that go out and research that stuff. Its funny how people outside the US think that private businesses in the US are somehow patriotic. They'd sell the rest of us to the Chinese government as cheap labor if it would add to their profit.


That's probably another one of the reasons why that list is so rediculous. They'd make far less money selling the rest of the US if they wouldn't rate it's value high.

@Ganis Do you really believe what you're writing about Jerry and the Fifa?
It's so ridiculous and really starting to get boring and tiresome. Because the Fifa surely doesn't care or give crap what Jerry does or wants in his world or not. They're used to dictating the rules and they have no need to give in the slightest bit. And if the Fifa really wanted to make maximum profit they'd just give the WC to Germany again or the UK or somewhere else in Europe, because that's where the biggest marker for soccer is and not in Dallas. No matter whether You believe Dallas is a shpere or not.


----------



## rantanamo

Billpa said:


> You need to get your head out of Jerry Jones' "ear"-
> Single-handedly made the NFL as profitable as it is? There's no doubt about the Cowboys' role in the league as a whole but give me a break-the other teams play a part in the NFL's success as well. And as far as FIFA goes, you've shown you haven't a CLUE how much bigger football (soccer) is than the NFL. If Fifa wants to hold another world cup in the US it would be great if they could play some of the games in Dallas but it's not impossible to imagine a successful world cup without Dallas. As someone else pointed out they could always play in Houston.


There's a lot of misunderstanding and arrogance on both sides. Let's deal with what's know here:

- Among the NFL owners Jerry is the revenue, merchandising and tv guy. Not the Cowboys. Jerry Jones. New commissioner Roger Godell does not like that, but Jerry is the guy now. Used to be Lamar Hunt and Tex Schramm. We're talking individuals, not teams. NFL owners do have roles as the league is a collective of club owners and ownerships.

- Soccer worldwide is bigger in numbers of eyes and people that play it compared to American football. But to money men that doesn't mean as much how each fan spends money on what is advertised. American fans buy team products and they buy what's advertised to them in big numbers. Demographics are more than just numbers. Advertisers want that money. That's why MotoGP wanted 2 Grand Prix in the US. Its why FOTA wants back in North America and Europe so much vs Bernie trying to get in early on emerging markets. US fans spend a lot. Worldwide, soccer might have more eyes and butts, but the NFL makes huge revenue, huge tv deals. Look at the value of the franchises in comparison to the world. This doesn't even include big-time college football. Where it counts, the NFL is huge.

- We have to choose here. Its SOOO important that a US bid include DC, New York, LA and Chicago, yet US Soccer somehow doesn't need the 4th largest TV market?


----------



## ryebreadraz

Dallas is the fifth biggest TV market. If you just want to go by city population, Houston is bigger than Dallas and by a large margin so why doesn't FIFA screw over Dallas and go to the city with the biggest population, Houston? Philadelphia didn't host any matches in 1994 and it's bigger than Dallas. A US World Cup would go off just fine without Dallas. I'd love to have it in there, but if they're going to take the stance Ganis is (which they won't) then screw them and let another city get in on the action.


----------



## rantanamo

Alemanniafan said:


> That's probably another one of the reasons why that list is so rediculous. They'd make far less money selling the rest of the US if they wouldn't rate it's value high.
> 
> @Ganis Do you really believe what you're writing about Jerry and the Fifa?
> It's so ridiculous and really starting to get boring and tiresome. Because the Fifa surely doesn't care or give crap what Jerry does or wants in his world or not. They're used to dictating the rules and they have no need to give in the slightest bit. And if the Fifa really wanted to make maximum profit they'd just give the WC to Germany again or the UK or somewhere else in Europe, because that's where the biggest marker for soccer is and not in Dallas. No matter whether You believe Dallas is a shpere or not.


LOL, you're doing it again. 99% of the US could care less if are teams are shown as the most valuable. I think its just hard to comprehend that one league in one country could be so big. The NFL simply makes huge revenue. Its very easy to see. FIFA can see this. Look how many tickets they sold last time in the US. They know in Germany or UK that you have jerseys already. You have t-shirts, scarfs, etc. Most in the US don't. They look at the US and see another western Europe as far as revenues go. The money is there already. Gotta tap into it. I think it can be done. NFL owners think it be done(they want the revenues from a huge NFL type soccer league)


----------



## rantanamo

ryebreadraz said:


> Dallas is the fifth biggest TV market. If you just want to go by city population, Houston is bigger than Dallas and by a large margin so why doesn't FIFA screw over Dallas and go to the city with the biggest population, Houston? Philadelphia didn't host any matches in 1994 and it's bigger than Dallas. A US World Cup would go off just fine without Dallas. I'd love to have it in there, but if they're going to take the stance Ganis is (which they won't) then screw them and let another city get in on the action.


 TV markets end at city limits? Dallas-Fort Worth is 4th largest TV and Radio market in the US with a metro population of 6.5 million as of 2008, while Houston is 6th with 5.7 million. Not to mention DFW is growing faster. Philadelphia's TV market will be surpassed by Houston this or next year.

The world cup would go off fine without Dallas, I'd never suggest otherwise. I also think its silly that Jerry Jones wouldn't follow regulations when he himself has said otherwise on camera.


----------



## ryebreadraz

rantanamo said:


> TV markets end at city limits? Dallas-Fort Worth is 4th largest TV and Radio market in the US with a metro population of 6.5 million as of 2008, while Houston is 6th with 5.7 million. Not to mention DFW is growing faster. Philadelphia's TV market will be surpassed by Houston this or next year.
> 
> The world cup would go off fine without Dallas, I'd never suggest otherwise. I also think its silly that Jerry Jones wouldn't follow regulations when he himself has said otherwise on camera.


Okay I think we're at the point where we're arguing when we're both basically on the same side. A World Cup would go off fine without Dallas, but Dallas should be included and Jerry Jones would cooperate with all of FIFA's regulations to host. Banners would go down, fields would be widened, etc. We're pretty much in agreement here so I think this "argument" is over. Ganis is the only one not on the same page here.


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## krudmonk

The World Cup would still be televised for everyone in the "fourth largest" TV market, despite a game not being played there.


----------



## Billpa

rantanamo said:


> US fans spend a lot. Worldwide, soccer might have more eyes and butts, but the NFL makes huge revenue, huge tv deals. ?



Yes....and?

I'm quite aware of the NFL's license to print money- but I'm not quite sure what that has to do with FIFA tossing out all its rules because it just can't resist having a future World Cup at the new stadium in Arlington, Texas.


----------



## salaverryo

krudmonk said:


> No! Don't mess with Texas!


Otherwise we will send another idiot president to the White House...


----------



## en1044

Ganis said:


> They put Man U as number 2 in the world.
> 
> Like Rantonomo (i think i butchered that) said, Jerry does not need the World Cup, The US bid committee needs Jerry to get the World Cup.
> 
> If Jerry Jones can Single Handedly make the NFL the most profitable business in the world (He coordinates TV contracts, Merchandising deals and advertising) then I think FIFA should listen to him. A US World Cup will play more towards making Soccer more popular in the USA. No need to expand to the world market if you already control the world market, but they dont control the US market so i think FIFA should listen to NFL owners on how to get the American Audience.


I dont understand why you think Dallas is entitled to anything it chooses. Its not.

Please stop making Americans look bad.

If you wanna argue soccer, go learn about the game.


----------



## berkshire royal

Ganis said:


> Good luck telling Jerry to take down 7 super bowl banners (Wish full thinking) Emmit Smiths all time leading rusher banner and covering the ring of honor. If the name does not change to a corporate sponsor then they will have to call it by its name. The Cowboys Stadium.
> 
> You really think FIFA is going to tell the most successful, most profitable and most popular sports franchise in the world (check Forbes if you dont believe me) what to do?


Ganis where did you get this information from I’m on Forbes now and there is no mention of Dallas being the most successful, most profitable and most popular sports franchise in the world anywhere maybe you can post the link.

As for Forbes their info on soccer is crap it's out of date and fairly inaccurate if you want to learn anything about the business of soccer look into the Deloitte money league, it gives you a far more detailed and up to date information. I mean where do they get their valuations from they seem strange to say the least.

FIFA will not make the Cowboys stadium change name they and UEFA only do that when the stadium is sponsored by a non FIFA/UEFA Sponsor. The stadium will be laid out in a mode that FIFA will find acceptable that means removing banners etc.


----------



## Scoots71

AC Milan and Club America played a match in the Georgia Dome in Atlanta (on natural grass too).There were some 50,300 fans there. Here's some pictures I took. The place was far from full, but it was loud in there.


----------



## ryebreadraz

I've been unimpressed with the grass laid down over turf. While certainly not awful, it's not very good either. Last night's match, in addition to the Sounders/Chelsea match in Seattle featured too many strange bounces and bouncing balls. Hopefully this technology can be improved by the next time we host a WC because it will likely have to be used in a few stadiums.


----------



## KingmanIII

SpicyMcHaggis said:


> :lol: Perhaps in gridiron, sports wise certainly not.


Not quite as valuable as Man Utd, but pretty damn close.
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/34/soccer-values-09_Soccer-Team-Valuations_Value.html
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/30/sportsmoney_nfl08_NFL-Team-Valuations_Value.html


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

KingmanIII said:


> Not quite as valuable as Man Utd, but pretty damn close.
> http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/34/soccer-values-09_Soccer-Team-Valuations_Value.html
> http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/30/sportsmoney_nfl08_NFL-Team-Valuations_Value.html


 Like i've (and few others) mentioned, forbes way of evaluating simply doesn't apply to Euro football (soccer) clubs.


----------



## Ganis

SpicyMcHaggis said:


> Like i've (and few others) mentioned, forbes way of evaluating simply doesn't apply to Euro football (soccer) clubs.


explain


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

Ganis said:


> explain


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=40155908&postcount=1445

You cannot realistically evaluate worth of clubs like Real Madrid, Barca, Bayern because they are not public companies. They aren't listed on stock exchanges, you cannot buy their stocks and those clubs don't have owners. They are run by boards which are elected on elections by registered fans. Also like i mentioned, most of the European stadiums are council owned, while that isn't the case in US and Forbes sees that as one of the biggest if not the biggest asset in their evaluation. It's simply not comparable... it's just too different.


----------



## Ganis

can you buy stock in any team? you can buy into the ownership but not stock... you just got burned by GANIS!

Maybe if your clubs were run by owners and not a board of directors better decisions would be made (Is Renaldo really worth 152 million? You could have bought a Super Oil Tanker full of oil with that much money. World Wide Depression my ass)

Double Burn! Ok really just one, last one was me being me.


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

Ganis said:


> can you buy stock in any team?


 Yes you can. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about but you are still arguing...


----------



## Ganis

SpicyMcHaggis said:


> Yes you can. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about but you are still arguing...


who can you buy stock in???


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

Ganis said:


> who can you buy stock in???


Many of the clubs are listed on stocks exchange and you can normally buy their stocks. I have absolutely no idea what are you trying to say here.


----------



## krudmonk

Ugh...


----------



## weava

SpicyMcHaggis said:


> Yes you can. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about but you are still arguing...


The ONLY NFL team you can buy stock in is the Green Bay Packers, the other 31 teams have owners.


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

weava said:


> The ONLY NFL team you can buy stock in is the Green Bay Packers, the other 31 teams have owners.


 But aren't we talking about Euro clubs here and the way Forbes does their lists? He asked me to explain about Euro teams, not NFL.


----------



## weava

SpicyMcHaggis said:


> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=40155908&postcount=1445
> 
> most of the European stadiums are council owned, while that isn't the case in US and Forbes sees that as one of the biggest if not the biggest asset in their evaluation. It's simply not comparable... it's just too different.


You are complely off if you think most NFL teams own thier stadium. 

(4)Privatly Owned: WAS, MIA, NE, PHI
(28)owned by local government, sports authority, or stadium company: DAL, NY, KC, DEN, BUF, CAR, CLE, NO, GB, ATL, SD, SF, BAL, HOU, NAS, JAC, SEA, TAM, CIN, PIT, DET, MIN, ARZ, OAK, IND, CHI.


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

weava said:


> You are complely off on NFL teams owning thier stadium.
> 
> (4)Privatly Owned: WAS, MIA, NE, PHI
> (28)owned by local government, sports authority, or stadium company: DAL, NY, KC, DEN, BUF, CAR, CLE, NO, GB, ATL, SD, SF, BAL, HOU, NAS, JAC, SEA, TAM, CIN, PIT, DET, MIN, ARZ, OAK, IND, CHI.


 Could be that i'm wrong because i'm not familiar with NFL. But Cowboys are that high at Forbes exactly because of stadium. Someone posted that here months ago when there was similar discussion.



> The new *stadium helped make the Cowboys the most valuable* team in the NFL and the most valuable sport franchise in the world at $1.5 billion, Forbes said


----------



## weava

SpicyMcHaggis said:


> Could be that i'm wrong because i'm not familiar with NFL. But Cowboys are that high at Forbes exactly because of stadium. Someone posted that here months ago when there was similar discussion.


this should help explain how it works
http://www.ci.arlington.tx.us/citysecretary/pdf/110204/110204_faq_english.pdf

"Who will own the Stadium Complex?
Answer: The City would own the Cowboys
Complex and the Club would lease it,
maintain it, and operate it"


----------



## Ganis

they take into account how much the Stadium will help to project the team and increase revenue.


----------



## Luke80

That's because they are a Rugby Union team. Just like Saracens, London Wasps, London Irish, Leicester Tigers etc.

Different sport, VERY different culture.


----------



## krudmonk

Luke80 said:


> That's because they are a Rugby Union team. Just like Saracens, London Wasps, London Irish, Leicester Tigers etc.
> 
> Different sport, VERY different culture.


1. It was a joke.

2. It's English sporting culture. The nation dictates trends more than the game played.


----------



## salaverryo

SIC said:


> What's wrong with DC United? Is it because they didn't actually unite two teams and did it because it sounds good? Well if that's good enough Newton Heath then I think it's good enough for DC.
> 
> Real Salt Lake is the only real terrible one, people just tend to call them RSL. Chivas isn't a bad name, but the USA part is hokey. They should be called Club Deportivo Los Angeles and just nicknamed Chivas.
> 
> But I do love some of the American styled names, like the "Chicago Fire", I don't care what anyone says.....thats a bad ass name for a sports team from Chicago. Seattle Sounders, Portland Timbers, San Jose Earthquakes and LA Galaxy are pretty good names too..


They're CHEESY names, that's what is wrong with them. "Portland Timbers" sounds like the players are made of wood (not a bad comparison, though; they ARE a bunch of stiffs).


----------



## krudmonk

Timbers is a great name dating back to 1975 and incorporating local flavor. Are Nottingham players actually a forest? Are Bolton Wanderers a bunch of lost people? Blackburn Rovers are eleven family dogs taught to fetch a soccer ball? Is Manchester City a team of 400,000 residents? Why hasn't the other Manchester team united with them? These names suck omg lol!!!111112


----------



## Bobby3

salaverryo said:


> They're CHEESY names, that's what is wrong with them. "Portland Timbers" sounds like the players are made of wood (not a bad comparison, though; they ARE a bunch of stiffs).


That'd be funny if you knew what you were talking about.

They're unbeaten in 22.


----------



## Luke80

krudmonk said:


> Timbers is a great name dating back to 1975 and incorporating local flavor. Are Nottingham players actually a forest? Are Bolton Wanderers a bunch of lost people? Blackburn Rovers are eleven family dogs taught to fetch a soccer ball? Is Manchester City a team of 400,000 residents? Why hasn't the other Manchester team united with them? These names suck omg lol!!!111112


You forgot Sheffield Wednesday. Oh wait, no because their name actually means something.


----------



## Ganis

salaverryo said:


> They're CHEESY names, that's what is wrong with them. "Portland Timbers" sounds like the players are made of wood (not a bad comparison, though; they ARE a bunch of stiffs).


We American teams like to call our self's by CITY/STATE NAME + TEAM MASCOT. Who cares if its cheesy? We think that the non mascot names The rest of the world has is weird.


----------



## en1044

Ganis said:


> We think that the non mascot names The rest of the world has is weird.


Maybe you do, dont speak for all of us.


----------



## krudmonk

Luke80 said:


> You forgot Sheffield Wednesday. Oh wait, no because their name actually means something.


That name at least has some character. I guess Forest does, too. Too many words are rehashed and affixed at random, though. I mean, do 10,000 people make Norwich a city and Ipswich a town? Come on.


----------



## Bobby3

Ganis said:


> We American teams like to call our self's by CITY/STATE NAME + TEAM MASCOT. Who cares if its cheesy? We think that the non mascot names The rest of the world has is weird.


We?

I don't think you speak for most Americans, most Americans speak English.


----------



## Luke80

krudmonk said:


> I mean, do 10,000 people make Norwich a city and Ipswich a town? Come on.


No, but that fact that Norwich has a cathedral and Ipswich has not does though.


----------



## krudmonk

Luke80 said:


> No, but that fact that Norwich has a cathedral and Ipswich has not does though.


How arbitrary. What if Ipswich had a handful of modest churches instead?


----------



## SIC

salaverryo said:


> They're CHEESY names, that's what is wrong with them. "Portland Timbers" sounds like the players are made of wood (not a bad comparison, though; they ARE a bunch of stiffs).


Do you guys know what a cargo cult is? Well, sometimes the very eurocentric soccer fans in the US remind of them. They latch onto certain aspects of the leagues and think that's what makes "proper league" and why the Premiership/Liga/Serie A is so successful. They think that's what is holding MLS back, but it's just not that simple. Even if they did all that....the league wouldn't improve.....in some cases (playing in winter), it wouldn't even survive.
Theres a reason MLS doesn't have pro/rel and is single-entity, theres a reason why it doesn't play in winter and theres a reason why some teams have "silly" North American style sport names. Mainly, because they're North American sport teams. :bash:
Seattle doesn't draw 32k people, simple because they added FC at the end of the name. In fact, people voted AGAINST the team being called Seattle FC. They wanted the name "sounders", because that name means something to the people of Seattle. Same with the name Timbers.

Other countries do it their way and we do it our way. Every league is different and they each conform to the market they serve. The US is a very special case in several regards and if you can't understand the challenges it faces to survinve......then I dunno....... it's probably best you ignore it, because it has a lot of warts.....a lot, you'll never be happy.


----------



## Bobby3

Norwich is a city because it was deemed one by royal decree in the 1100's, shortly after Norwich Cathedral was completed.

Ipswich is a town because it failed in it's bid for city status in 2000.

It has nothing, nothing to do with population. You're diluted if you think the terms are handed out based on that alone, in fact, look no further than North Carolina to prove it.

Cary, Wake County has 134,000 people. Polkville, Cleveland County has 535 people.

Cary is a Town. Polkville is a City. Polkville is a city because the State of North Carolina says it is.


----------



## BoulderGrad

The palindrome of Ipswich is Bolton


----------



## Alemanniafan

So, do Norwich and Ipswich have a soccer stadium in the US?
Do you have any pictures?
And what about Cary and Polkville, do they also have a soccer stadium there? 
And while we're at it, where are all the Brits claiming the thread title should be footbal stadiums in the US again? It's allready been pages without any of this fundametally important discussion here...


----------



## krudmonk

Bobby3 said:


> You're diluted


I never was that potent anyway.

Back on topic, here's the best stadium in the whole country:


----------



## Ganis

what stadium is that?


----------



## krudmonk

Ganis said:


> what stadium is that?


Blasphemy! It's Buck Shaw! Temporary stands, bleacher seats and all!


----------



## Ganis

krudmonk said:


> Blasphemy! It's Buck Shaw! Temporary stands, bleacher seats and all!


how is it blasphemy when its not even a true stadium?


----------



## en1044

Ganis said:


> how is it blasphemy when its not even a true stadium?


How isnt it a true stadium?


----------



## krudmonk

And how was my tongue not clearly planted in cheek?


----------



## Alx-D

en1044 said:


> How isnt it a true stadium?


If it doesn't have a 60 yard video board dangling precariously above the field then it's not a true stadium.


----------



## SJAnfield

Alx-D said:


> If it doesn't have a 60 yard video board dangling precariously above the field then it's not a true stadium.


It has to have suites on the sideline too.


----------



## Bobby3

and a sliding roof!


----------



## danVan

but over all, it has to be built to raise the ego of just one person, with a big enough ego already.


----------



## Alemanniafan

Anything that's not fully airconditioned can't really be a stadium.


----------



## soup or man

I must be the only American who sees no problem with the name Real Salt Lake. I mean it was at one point under Spanish control. RSL flows off the tongue easily. And plus they have one of the best logos in MLS.

I also love FC Dallas. It just has a very unique sounding name.


----------



## krudmonk

"Real Salt Lake" is no worse than "DC United."


----------



## SJAnfield

soup or man said:


> I must be the only American who sees no problem with the name Real Salt Lake. I mean it was at one point under Spanish control. RSL flows off the tongue easily. And plus they have one of the best logos in MLS.
> 
> I also love FC Dallas. It just has a very unique sounding name.


Personally it doesn't really matter to me what the name is, but I do find the name a little funny. Yes Salt Lake was a part of the Spanish Empire, but Salt Lake is an English word, so combined with a Spanish word it sounds a bit wierd. Real San Diego or Sacramento rolls off the tongue a little easier. But even though I find it funny I don't think there is any problem with the MLS adopting traditional football names. In the case of San Jose and Seattle, (and soon to be Portland and Vancouver), I love the fact the old NASL names have been returned. Its a bit of American football history preserved.


----------



## Ganis

soup or man said:


> I must be the only American who sees no problem with the name Real Salt Lake. I mean it was at one point under Spanish control. RSL flows off the tongue easily. And plus they have one of the best logos in MLS.
> 
> I also love FC Dallas. It just has a very unique sounding name.


I agree with you


----------



## ryebreadraz

I think Real Salt Lake sounds a little weird, but it doesn't bother me and I just call them RSL anyways, which sounds cool. I like the Sounders, Timbers and Whitecaps (should they still be entering the league) keeping their old NASL nicknames. The Earthquakes is not one I'm a fan of, but oh well. The Wizards are the only team that has a nickname that I think is really bad, but it sure beats the Wiz.


----------



## krudmonk

ryebreadraz said:


> I like the Sounders, Timbers and Whitecaps (should they still be entering the league) keeping their old NASL nicknames. The Earthquakes is not one I'm a fan of, but oh well.


What's the difference?


----------



## ryebreadraz

krudmonk said:


> What's the difference?


I just don't think Earthquakes sounds very good and it doesn't have a distinct connection to the area the way the other three do. When I think of Vancouver I think of the beautiful surroundings, whitecaps included. When I think of Oregon I think of all the trees so Timbers makes sense. Puget Sound is one of the things that comes to mind with Seattle. I don't think Earthquakes when I hear San Jose. I don't hate the name, I just don't particularly like it because it doesn't register with me the way the other three do and I think it sounds a bit strange.


----------



## krudmonk

I'd say earthquakes are more unique to this area than trees are to Portland or choppy water is to Vancouver. Those are common throughout the northwest. You could probably switch those two and they'd still make sense. Meanwhile, go as far as Sacramento and people aren't familiar with the ground shaking.


----------



## SJAnfield

ryebreadraz said:


> I just don't think Earthquakes sounds very good and it doesn't have a distinct connection to the area the way the other three do. When I think of Vancouver I think of the beautiful surroundings, whitecaps included. When I think of Oregon I think of all the trees so Timbers makes sense. Puget Sound is one of the things that comes to mind with Seattle. I don't think Earthquakes when I hear San Jose. I don't hate the name, I just don't particularly like it because it doesn't register with me the way the other three do and I think it sounds a bit strange.


Seriously? San Jose has several fault lines runing straight through it. As a matter of fact, the 1906 Earthquake is associated more with San Francisco, but it completely leveled San Jose. I'd say Earthquakes have a strong connection with the area. 

(I understand not everyone is familiar to the area. This post isn't intended to be mean spirited)


----------



## MJinOshkosh

But is it a good association? I would think an Earthquake is a scary thing to have to go through. You would think that San Jose could come up with a more positive and more indicative of the area nickname.


----------



## krudmonk

MJinOshkosh said:


> But is it a good association? I would think an Earthquake is a scary thing to have to go through. You would think that San Jose could come up with a more positive and more indicative of the area nickname.


As opposed to:

Chicago Fire
Carolina/Miami/Wellington Hurricanes
Colorado Avalanche
Brooklyn/Cincinnati/Iowa State Cyclones
countless teams named Tornadoes


----------



## sbutlik

*Aerial Shots of DSG Park*


----------



## Ganis

If i had a favorite cookie cutter soccer stadium in the USA its this one.


----------



## Ganis

nyrmetros said:


> no roof for the supporters in Philly? lame.


who needs a roof?


----------



## RMB2007

Ganis said:


> who needs a roof?


Us Europeans.


----------



## Bobby3

Ganis said:


> who needs a roof?


The Dallas Cowboys.


----------



## SIC

RMB2007 said:


> Us Europeans.


Your great-grandfather didn't, he just wore a hat.


----------



## Ganis

Bobby3 said:


> The Dallas Cowboys.


 correction, The Super Bowl coming to Dallas next year needed a roof, and its retractable.


----------



## en1044

Ganis said:


> correction, The Super Bowl coming to Dallas next year needed a roof, and its retractable.


thats right.

The fact that Texas Stadium had a roof is irrelevant. :bash:


----------



## weava

Ganis said:


> correction, The Super Bowl coming to Dallas next year needed a roof, and its retractable.


only northern/colder cities are required to be climate controlled to host the super bowl and Dallas is clearly a southern city.


----------



## Ganis

weava said:


> only northern/colder cities are required to be climate controlled to host the super bowl and Dallas is clearly a southern city.


Dallas can not guarantee a temperature of 72 degrees or higher in february there for a roof is needed to guarantee a game time temperature of 72 or higher. Read NFL Super Bowl venue rules. This is why allot of outdoor stadiums in the center of the country in the south dont host the game.


----------



## Bobby3

en1044 said:


> thats right.
> 
> The fact that Texas Stadium had a roof is irrelevant. :bash:


Shh.

Oh, and the Houston Texans and Houston Astros.

And the City of San Antonio.

And Texas Longhorns baseball team.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_River_(Texas)


----------



## Ganis

whats En going on about?


----------



## rantanamo

Dallas in January and early Feb may not be Green Bay, Wisconsin, but its still not Superbowl weather. Why do you think the BCS wanted the Cotton Bowl moved to an indoor stadium? Because that time of year you'll probably get 20s or 30s, and though it doesn't snow much, that's the most precipitous time of year for Dallas.


----------



## en1044

Ganis said:


> whats En going on about?





Ganis said:


> who needs a roof?





en1044 said:


> thats right.
> 
> The fact that Texas Stadium had a roof is irrelevant. :bash:


Simple reading/common sense would have answered the question for you DallasBrink.


----------



## KingmanIII

rantanamo said:


> Dallas in January and early Feb may not be Green Bay, Wisconsin, but its still not Superbowl weather. Why do you think the BCS wanted the Cotton Bowl moved to an indoor stadium? Because that time of year you'll probably get 20s or 30s, and though it doesn't snow much, that's the most precipitous time of year for Dallas.


Dallas usually gets 50-60℉ temps during the day in the winter and about 30-40℉ at night.

Being located on the Great Plains, however, Dallas is also subject to cold fronts which can bring high temperatures down to around 40℉ and lows to under 30℉ for several days.


----------



## nyrmetros

The final 2 games for the Metrostars at Giants Stadium are coming !!


----------



## koolio

Oh snap ... didn't even realize that they'll be playing in their new digs starting next season ... hopefully their crappy performance this season does not have a poor effect on the potential attendance increase next year.


----------



## nyrmetros

koolio said:


> Oh snap ... didn't even realize that they'll be playing in their new digs starting next season ... hopefully their crappy performance this season does not have a poor effect on the potential attendance increase next year.


Check this out. Interior shots of the new Harrison Stadium.

http://www.kearnysoccer.com/home_redbull.html


----------



## sbutlik

*KC Wizards Stadium*


----------



## Bobby3

Sweet as hell, too bad it'll be changed by the time it's finished


----------



## sbutlik

*more kc renders*




































I think tomorrow San Jose Quakes will reveal their design.


----------



## Alx-D

What's the capacity of the new Wiz stadium


----------



## ryebreadraz

Alx-D said:


> What's the capacity of the new Wiz stadium


Those renders are somewhat of working renders. They're far from the final product and just where they are right now. They're aiming for something between 18,000 and 20,000, but those specific renders don't have a specific capacity. It's just somewhere in that range because it's a working model.


----------



## krudmonk

Wow, the Wizards just changed their design and moved it to another state and it's not even finalized yet? The Earthquakes, with a site nailed down and design to be unveiled tomorrow, are the the ones people bag on for being teetering on the edge of existence...

P.S. Yep, I'm bitter.


----------



## bigbossman

i stumbled upon some MLS in the wee small hours on ESPN UK last weekend and the commentators kept going on about the galaxy crowd and the stadium was half empty. 

They did the same in a chicago fire game a few weeks back calling it a full house when it clearly wasn't, not to my eyes anyway (the stats even say it was)... the question is why?


----------



## slipperydog

bigbossman said:


> i stumbled upon some MLS in the wee small hours on ESPN UK last weekend and the commentators kept going on about the galaxy crowd and the stadium was half empty.
> 
> They did the same in a chicago fire game a few weeks back calling it a full house when it clearly wasn't, not to my eyes anyway (the stats even say it was)... the question is why?


Can't speak for Chicago, but the Galaxy game was going on at the exact same time as the USC-Ohio State game. I'm sure most were glued to their tv sets rather than at the soccer match. College football is king.


----------



## SIC

bigbossman said:


> i stumbled upon some MLS in the wee small hours on ESPN UK last weekend and the commentators kept going on about the galaxy crowd and the stadium was half empty.
> 
> They did the same in a chicago fire game a few weeks back calling it a full house when it clearly wasn't, not to my eyes anyway (the stats even say it was)... the question is why?


Was it vs Colorado? It wasn't a sellout sellout but it was a good crowd, but in American sports they report "tickets distributed" not the actual attendance. Which is how the Chicago Bulls have still "sold out" every game since Jordan left, even though they've been shit and somedays theres only 15k in the building.


----------



## likasz

SIC said:


> theres only 15k in the building.


"Only" 15k.In Europe only one team has bigger attendances - Panathinaikos Athens.


----------



## smoo0okie

likasz said:


> "Only" 15k.In Europe only one team has bigger attendances - Panathinaikos Athens.


:storm:


----------



## danVan

New earthquakes stadium


----------



## SIC

likasz said:


> "Only" 15k.In Europe only one team has bigger attendances - Panathinaikos Athens.


Well, the stadium holds 21,500. So 15k is nowhere near a real sellout, which is what I mean.


----------



## likasz

It will be a nice stadium in San Jose.It can be used as a training venue for WC2018/2022.

PS.What about Red Bull Arena in NY?


----------



## Topher51

Wow, I am somewhat underwhelmed by the new San Jose stadium renderings. Are there going to be any suites?


----------



## Bobby3

The render has like a zillion hashmarks on the pitch.


----------



## SIC

Topher51 said:


> Wow, I am somewhat underwhelmed by the new San Jose stadium renderings. Are there going to be any suites?


Not really, which is odd considering it's right on the edge of silicon valley. He making it on the cheap, but basically he wants really steep stands and no prawnies allowed. :lol:


Anyway, I really like both new stadium renders and by the lack of bitching, I guess most people do too.


----------



## mattec

well..., at least it isn't an exact cookie-cutter


----------



## nyrmetros

yay for the roof.


----------



## ryebreadraz

I don't quite understand why there's a concourse on the interior of bowl. The the exception of the concourse and division it creates between the seats below it and above it, the stadium is fine. Nothing special, but fine, although I really hope that it is at least 18,000 and not the 15,000 he previously mentioned.


----------



## nandofutbolero

that's a nice stadium for the earthquakes!!!!i'll say


----------



## Luke80

That mini-outdoor concourse is pointless. The only purpose it serves is to make the majority of the seats further from the pitch!


----------



## hngcm

That's pretty crappy...


----------



## Benn

recession era stadium, woring on the keep it affordable and expandable motto, deal with any problems as they come up. Sort of like the Crop of USL stadiums and proposals in Montreal, Rochester ect.


----------



## metros11

Luke80 said:


> That mini-outdoor concourse is pointless. The only purpose it serves is to make the majority of the seats further from the pitch!


It's not totally pointless. It will be used for 'barrier free and companion seating'.

As far as the roof, personally I don't believe it will make it into the final design.


----------



## Luke80

metros11 said:


> It will be used for 'barrier free and companion seating'.


I've never heard of such terms. Could you explain please?


----------



## Benn

Handicapped accessable seating


----------



## krudmonk

Benn said:


> recession era stadium, woring on the keep it affordable and expandable motto, deal with any problems as they come up. Sort of like the Crop of USL stadiums and proposals in Montreal, Rochester ect.


How the hell is it like those stadia?


----------



## soup or man

Are there any plans for a SSS in New England for the Revolution?


----------



## Luke80

Benn said:


> Handicapped accessable seating


and that couldn't have been located at the bottom of the stand?


----------



## SIC

Luke80 said:


> and that couldn't have been located at the bottom of the stand?


Maybe, I dunno........I'm not an architect or know ADA laws.

Either way, it's total nitpicking.
The important is that the Earthquakes have the land and a stadium plan for their own stadium. Instead of renting a converted college baseball stadium with wooden seating that only holds 10,000.


----------



## Luke80

Nitpicking? I was giving my opinion on the design! :lol:

I agree - it's good that they'll have a state of the art facility to themselves.


----------



## ryebreadraz

Luke80 said:


> Nitpicking? I was giving my opinion on the design! :lol:
> 
> I agree - it's good that they'll have a state of the art facility to themselves.


They far from have a facility. They still don't have a deal done or are on their way to getting one done. We'll see how it goes, but there's still a ways to go.


----------



## ryebreadraz

soup or man said:


> Are there any plans for a SSS in New England for the Revolution?


They're still working on finding a site near Boston. There was talk of a site by a T stop in Somerville, but I haven't heard anything new recently.


----------



## Benn

krudmonk said:


> How the hell is it like those stadia?


Relatively small, low price tag up front, easily expandable. Nothing to do with looks, but in terms off program, capacity, long term expansion and limited funding there are lots of parallels. Think of it interms of economics and scale, not form or aesthetics.


----------



## krudmonk

Benn said:


> Relatively small, low price tag up front, easily expandable. Nothing to do with looks, but in terms off program, capacity, long term expansion and limited funding there are lots of parallels. Think of it interms of economics and scale, not form or aesthetics.


Well no shit. The city is not paying for it, unlike Frisco or Commerce or whatever little burb is desperate for people.


----------



## SJAnfield

metros11 said:


> As far as the roof, personally I don't believe it will make it into the final design.


Wolff is actually very insistent upon a roof covering all stands. The guarantee of a roof is actually better than that of actually building the thing.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Not a bad proposal, certainly a design that should allow for very easy expansion.


----------



## Benn

krudmonk said:


> Well no shit. The city is not paying for it, unlike Frisco or Commerce or whatever little burb is desperate for people.


feel free to pull your head out of your ass at any time.


----------



## krudmonk

Benn said:


> feel free to pull your head out of your ass at any time.


Don't lash out at me because you think Paetec Park and this stadium are so alike.


----------



## Benn

Interms of developement and process they are and if you can't recognize that thats fine. But implying retardation and dropping condescending statements generally don't make people too thrilled.

FYI they are both designed for later expansion and additions of premium seating when funding comes available, both are midsized, cheaper above ground steel structures. Both have virtually nonexistant facades (San Jose has large fabric images are attached to the frame to to create a boundry, but its not particularly permenant). Montreal, the Des Moines proposal and others can certainly fit a number of these criteria as well. You just have not thought about this from a developemental standpoint and are implying I'm an idiot for doing so.


----------



## krudmonk

I got your point before, but it's a pretty flimsy argument considering cheapness and expandability are not unique traits.


----------



## Benn

So formal composition or facade design is all there is to it? 

In the MLS San Jose is pushing those traits further than any other facility, where as KC is showing a much higher price tag and much less expandablitiy with relatively completed facades, roof, bowl, ect. 

What you see between San Jose, Rochester and Montreal for instance are visualy very different results (though there are some formal similarities; to be enclosed horseshoe layout, single larde scoreboard, steel structure ect) coming from similar constraints and programatic requirements, which are integral to the design process. In those respects this has much more in common with those previously mentioned than say the HDC in LA or DSG Park in Colorado or Red Bull park in New Jersey (which is the antithesis of San Jose in these respects).


----------



## Ganis

current soccer stadiums are being built to meet the cash in flow that its lack of (but growing) popularity has in America. Granted if Soccer was as big in the States as the NFL MLB and NBA then we would see grand stadiums like Emirates, Donbass, Soccer City and many other soccer stadiums being built around the world, but its not. 

Soccer gets barley a minute of news time on ESPN Sports Center if it gets mentioned at all.

As the game of soccer grows in popularity (And those of us 30 and under get older and tell our kids its ok to watch soccer, its not the panzzy sport our dads told us it was) then these teams attendance will grow, new tiers will be added, the a true proper external facade and roof can be put on the stadiums. But until then we can barley get 10,000 to a regular season soccer match so what's the point?


----------



## Luke80

Do you get fans from the away team travelling?

Because the clubs are so far apart they can't travel from their home towns can they?


----------



## ryebreadraz

The fan support is growing. Our supporters sections have taken a major step forward in recent years, although there are still some front offices (Colorado) who do everything possible to ruin their supporters sections and keep them from developing. There is some traveling, but the distance makes it tough. You see bigger traveling groups when teams play within driving distance of each other, but when it requires a plane trip, it becomes a dozen or two usually.


----------



## JYDA

Luke80 said:


> Do you get fans from the away team travelling?
> 
> Because the clubs are so far apart they can't travel from their home towns can they?


There is good away support when the cities are close enough. By close I mean a 7 hour drive


----------



## krudmonk

Luke80 said:


> Do you get fans from the away team travelling?
> 
> Because the clubs are so far apart they can't travel from their home towns can they?


It's not a weekly or casual occurrence, but SGs will coordinate in advance which trips they plan to make that season.


----------



## SIC

Luke80 said:


> Do you get fans from the away team travelling?
> 
> Because the clubs are so far apart they can't travel from their home towns can they?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3Ks3QF_EuY

So that's Chicago to Seattle, a 4 hour plane flight. To put in perspective.

It's the distance that kills fan support in this country, the shortest trip for a team like Columbus, Chicago and Toronto is about 6-7 hours.

Anyway, you're completely right......theres nothing like seeing a game in person and being with fellow supporters. I'm sorry, but you do no get to experience that sitting in front of your television wanking off to Barcelona/Man U/etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhY9SIVKfuE

My favorite is when the goalkeeper turns around and mouths "why?" to you, after a spectacularly good heckle.


----------



## soup or man

The Galaxy has the Angel City Brigade. This was in July against AC Milan.





And the LA Riot Squad.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Seattle's Emerald City Supporters:






http://www.weareecs.com/


----------



## JYDA

New video of Red Bull Arena. 

http://tribeca.vidavee.com/advance/doc/EDA3534679EB2F618F3DAC3E14FEBDAC?AF_deliveryChannel=play


----------



## BoulderGrad

Oops:
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=679122&cc=5901


----------



## BoulderGrad

And something tells me Portland is going to just fine (business wise) in MLS:


----------



## Ganis

Im loving how well Seattle is doing on and off the field.


----------



## nyrmetros

BoulderGrad said:


> And something tells me Portland is going to just fine (business wise) in MLS:


I'm really curious as to how the rennovations will go to make that place SSS. full roof would be awesome.


----------



## JYDA

Red Bull Arena


----------



## VelesHomais

One of the best stadiums in America


----------



## Ganis

VelesHomais said:


> One of the best stadiums in America


in the unsaid words of the virgin marry... Come again!? your joking right? You meant to say best soccer specific stadium in America... right?


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Key phrase "one of the best" not "the best".


----------



## koolio

The absolute, singular best stadium in America ... bar none ... no exceptions and peers what so ever.


----------



## Calvin W

koolio said:


> The absolute, singular best stadium in America ... bar none ... no exceptions and peers what so ever.


What are you folks smoking. When it is completed, it will probably be the best soccer specific stadium in the USA, that's the best it can hope for.

Best ever, nope.hno:


----------



## hngcm

I think the 2nd guy was being sarcastic lol. 

But it's a great stadium for its size.


----------



## VelesHomais

Ganis said:


> in the unsaid words of the virgin marry... Come again!? your joking right? You meant to say best soccer specific stadium in America... right?


No, I meant overall. There are some nice stadiums for other sports in obscure locations, but the rest of the stadiums around here, like the "new" Yankee stadium, are horrible. 

Red Bulls Park will probably be my second favorite after Cowboys in U.S.


----------



## KingmanIII

VelesHomais said:


> No, I meant overall. There are some nice stadiums for other sports in obscure locations, but the rest of the stadiums around here, like the "new" Yankee stadium, are horrible.
> 
> Red Bulls Park will probably be my second favorite after Cowboys in U.S.


From a football ("soccer") standpoint, Seattle, Houston and Phoenix aren't bad stadiums at all.


----------



## SIC

VelesHomais said:


> No, I meant overall. There are some nice stadiums for other sports in obscure locations, but the rest of the stadiums around here, like the "new" Yankee stadium, are horrible.
> 
> Red Bulls Park will probably be my second favorite after Cowboys in U.S.


I think he's one of those "if it's not in NYC, it's not really in AMERI-CAH" sorts. :lol:


----------



## metros11

Here are some of my pics from RBA:


















































































View from my seats:


----------



## ryebreadraz

The renderings looked appropriate for a 25,000 seat stadium, but these photos make it seem larger than 25,000. It will undoubtedly be the best MLS stadium to date. Only Philadelphia/Chester, had they maintained their original design, been able to compete.


----------



## ØlandDK

Red Bull stadium looks great. To bad that it's a Red Bull team that is going to play in it 



BoulderGrad said:


> And something tells me Portland is going to just fine (business wise) in MLS:


Is this on old baseball stadium? :dunno:


----------



## VelesHomais

metros11, AWESOME PICTURES! How did you get in? Can anyone go there during certain hours or what? I'd like to go as well.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Is any sort of entertainment/revitalization project planned for the area? It's near a PATH station, right? It looks like mostly under utilized industrial area, so it might be prime for development?


----------



## BoulderGrad

ØlandDK said:


> Is this on old baseball stadium? :dunno:


Yes. Thats PGE park in downtown Portland, OR. It is currently shared by the Portland Beavers (Minor League Baseball team) and the Portland Timbers (USL first division soccer team). Portland was recently awarded an MLS franchise that will start play in the 2011 season. Anticipating their arrival, there are plans to renovate PGE park (which is nearly 80 years old) into a soccer specific stadium. Another row of stands will be built along the empty outfield wall you see in the beginning of the video, and all other baseball infrastructure will presumably be removed.


----------



## RMB2007

Is it just me, or is that new stadium in metros11's post an exact copy of an already existing stadium in Europe?


----------



## ryebreadraz

RMB2007 said:


> Is it just me, or is that new stadium in metros11's post an exact copy of an already existing stadium in Europe?


Not identical, but very similar to Hypo-Arena in Austria.


----------



## salaverryo

KingmanIII said:


> From a football ("soccer") standpoint, Seattle, Houston and Phoenix aren't bad stadiums at all.


Yes they are. The artificial turf is an automatic disqualifier. Besides, like almost all the American football venues converted to soccer, they are too narrow and too tight at the corners as well.


----------



## Benn

Phoenix has a grass field (thats why its retractable) it has ample room in the corners as the stands do not curve on the sides.

Seattle gets a little tight and is field turf.

Reliant in Houston has a grass field and has retractable seating in the corners to allow for enough space for corner kicks, photographers ect.


----------



## Ganis

salaverryo said:


> Yes they are. The artificial turf is an automatic disqualifier. Besides, like almost all the American football venues converted to soccer, they are too narrow and too tight at the corners as well.


American stadium bring in grass when euro teams play over here and whine and throw a fit about playing on our super advanced artificial turf. American stadium modify for you babies in europe who are afraid to play on turf.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

BoulderGrad said:


> Is any sort of entertainment/revitalization project planned for the area? It's near a PATH station, right? It looks like mostly under utilized industrial area, so it might be prime for development?


There's definitely going to be a PATH station close by. I don't know about development though.


Ganis said:


> American stadium bring in grass when euro teams play over here and whine and throw a fit about playing on our super advanced artificial turf. American stadium modify for you babies in europe who are afraid to play on turf.


Not really. No one really likes turf, although its gotten better. Why do you think so many baseball stadiums have gotten right of turf surfaces in favor of natural surfaces?


----------



## metros11

VelesHomais said:


> metros11, AWESOME PICTURES! How did you get in? Can anyone go there during certain hours or what? I'd like to go as well.


I'm a season ticket holder and those pictures are from the relocation event. I got to go and select my seats for next year.


----------



## VelesHomais

I see, thanks. What were your impressions of the stadium?


----------



## metros11

BoulderGrad said:


> Is any sort of entertainment/revitalization project planned for the area? It's near a PATH station, right? It looks like mostly under utilized industrial area, so it might be prime for development?


http://www.advancerealtygroup.com/harrison_riverbend/index.htm

Check out the retail brochure on the site.


----------



## metros11

VelesHomais said:


> I see, thanks. What were your impressions of the stadium?


I was at the stadium back in March, and it was impressive then. Now that it's even closer to completion, I'm getting excited for next season.


----------



## Ganis

ElVoltageDR said:


> Why do you think so many baseball stadiums have gotten right of turf surfaces in favor of natural surfaces?


only one is moving from artificial to real grass in the next year and that is because they are moving out of the metro dome to an open air stadium.


----------



## krudmonk

Ganis said:


> only one is moving from artificial to real grass in the next year and that is because they are moving out of the metro dome to an open air stadium.


Well then, why do you think so many new stadia opted for expensive retractable roofs so they can grow real grass?


----------



## BoulderGrad

metros11 said:


> http://www.advancerealtygroup.com/harrison_riverbend/index.htm
> 
> Check out the retail brochure on the site.


Ah yes, very nice. How far along is this development? Are we talking; still being pursued, but on hold until the economy recovers, or pipe dream that won't ever get built?

I know a similar project is in the works for the land adjacent to the new Philadephia Union Stadium as well.


----------



## jtk1519

ElVoltageDR said:


> Not really. No one really likes turf, although its gotten better. Why do you think so many baseball stadiums have gotten right of turf surfaces in favor of natural surfaces?


Baseball stadiums can do it because one, they are used mostly during the Spring and Summer, prime growing seasons. And two, because the grass surfaces see little abuse. The game of baseball itself does little damage to the grass and the configuration of baseball stadiums mean little else can or is staged there. Some will host a football game in December and the occasional concert, but that's it.

Football and soccer stadiums though prefer turf because of how the sports abuse the playing surface (especially football) and because of how many different events the venue hosts. Pretty much every SSS in America also hosts small level football games and many concerts which tear fields to shreds (see all the recent news about Chicago and Washington planning to put down new sod after the abuse of the U2 concerts). And for football stadiums, the sport is played in the Fall and Winter where in Northern climates, it's hard to keep a quality surface. Heinz Field, Soldier Field, etc. are consistently voted not only the least favorite playing surfaces among players, but also the most dangerous.

For SSS in America though, the venue wont make enough money to justify it's existence just off soccer games. The venue has to be able to sell itself to other events (concerts, different sports, etc.) and the easiest way to do that is to use a playing surface that can take that kind of abuse.


----------



## ryebreadraz

By next year, all nine SSS's will have grass so it's clear that not only that European soccer players prefer grass, but US ones do too. Turf can work for other sports just fine, but in soccer, the play is on the ground and the ball spends the majority of its time there so turf has an adverse effect on the game unlike it does in football. Watch a soccer match on grass then on turf and you can clearly notice the difference. Hell, Toronto FC just paid over $6 million for other facilities just to get the city's approval to go from turf to grass. Turf is sometimes a necessity (New England Patriots/Revolution, looking at you), but it is never, ever the preferred surface and it certainly does not encourage the same level of play.


----------



## ØlandDK

BoulderGrad said:


> Yes. Thats PGE park in downtown Portland, OR. It is currently shared by the Portland Beavers (Minor League Baseball team) and the Portland Timbers (USL first division soccer team). Portland was recently awarded an MLS franchise that will start play in the 2011 season. Anticipating their arrival, there are plans to renovate PGE park (which is nearly 80 years old) into a soccer specific stadium. Another row of stands will be built along the empty outfield wall you see in the beginning of the video, and all other baseball infrastructure will presumably be removed.


Thanks for the info.



RMB2007 said:


> Is it just me, or is that new stadium in metros11's post an exact copy of an already existing stadium in Europe?


It looks alot like the Hypo-Arena in Klagenfurt that was used during the Euro 2008. But quite a few stadiums of that size in Europe have a lot of similarities.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Ganis said:


> only one is moving from artificial to real grass in the next year and that is because they are moving out of the metro dome to an open air stadium.


Yeah lets forget about all the other domed and couple of outdoor baseball stadiums that used astro turf:nuts:


jtk1519 said:


> Baseball stadiums can do it because one, they are used mostly during the Spring and Summer, prime growing seasons. And two, because the grass surfaces see little abuse. The game of baseball itself does little damage to the grass and the configuration of baseball stadiums mean little else can or is staged there. Some will host a football game in December and the occasional concert, but that's it.
> 
> Football and soccer stadiums though prefer turf because of how the sports abuse the playing surface (especially football) and because of how many different events the venue hosts. Pretty much every SSS in America also hosts small level football games and many concerts which tear fields to shreds (see all the recent news about Chicago and Washington planning to put down new sod after the abuse of the U2 concerts). And for football stadiums, the sport is played in the Fall and Winter where in Northern climates, it's hard to keep a quality surface. Heinz Field, Soldier Field, etc. are consistently voted not only the least favorite playing surfaces among players, but also the most dangerous.
> 
> For SSS in America though, the venue wont make enough money to justify it's existence just off soccer games. The venue has to be able to sell itself to other events (concerts, different sports, etc.) and the easiest way to do that is to use a playing surface that can take that kind of abuse.


Yeah I can see why they would. But from a players perspective turf just isn't there yet in terms of play. But like I said it is improving, so who knows, maybe some day it'll become more widely used.


----------



## metros11

BoulderGrad said:


> Ah yes, very nice. How far along is this development? Are we talking; still being pursued, but on hold until the economy recovers, or pipe dream that won't ever get built?
> 
> I know a similar project is in the works for the land adjacent to the new Philadephia Union Stadium as well.


I really don't know. First they said the residential units would be condominiums. Then when the housing market tanked they said they would be apartments. As far as I can tell all they did so far was clear the land and build some roads, but I don't see any buildings outside the stadium rising. The did however build a parking deck next to the Path station. At least that's a start.


----------



## metros11

jtk1519 said:


> Baseball stadiums can do it because one, they are used mostly during the Spring and Summer, prime growing seasons. And two, because the grass surfaces see little abuse. The game of baseball itself does little damage to the grass and the configuration of baseball stadiums mean little else can or is staged there. Some will host a football game in December and the occasional concert, but that's it.
> 
> Football and soccer stadiums though prefer turf because of how the sports abuse the playing surface (especially football) and because of how many different events the venue hosts. Pretty much every SSS in America also hosts small level football games and many concerts which tear fields to shreds (see all the recent news about Chicago and Washington planning to put down new sod after the abuse of the U2 concerts). And for football stadiums, the sport is played in the Fall and Winter where in Northern climates, it's hard to keep a quality surface. Heinz Field, Soldier Field, etc. are consistently voted not only the least favorite playing surfaces among players, but also the most dangerous.
> 
> For SSS in America though, the venue wont make enough money to justify it's existence just off soccer games. The venue has to be able to sell itself to other events (concerts, different sports, etc.) and the easiest way to do that is to use a playing surface that can take that kind of abuse.


Fake turf is not the preferred choice for soccer. Every SSS in America has grass. And the one SSS in Canada (BMO Field) which had turf the last three years, will have grass for next year. That will leave only 2 teams in MLS playing on turf. The New England Revolution (who share NFL venue with the Patriots) and the Seattle Sounders (who also share with the Seahawks).


----------



## flierfy

Why do you make a distinction between grass and turf when both words mean pretty much the same.


----------



## Luke80

That excuse about getting sun in summer is rubbish. In England we get very little direct sun and play our football season through the winter. Teams insist on grass because it is better for football. Some people don't seem able to accept different sports require different surfaces in order for them to be played in the best possible way.


----------



## ryebreadraz

Luke80 said:


> That excuse about getting sun in summer is rubbish. In England we get very little direct sun and play our football season through the winter. Teams insist on grass because it is better for football. Some people don't seem able to accept different sports require different surfaces in order for them to be played in the best possible way.


Yeah, I don't see sun as an excuse. Grass can be grown without a problem despite the weather. The only reasoning I accept for turf is when football is regularly played on the same field so if there were grass, it would be in such poor shape that turf is a better playing surface at that point.


----------



## SIC

Luke80 said:


> That excuse about getting sun in summer is rubbish. In England we get very little direct sun and play our football season through the winter. Teams insist on grass because it is better for football. Some people don't seem able to accept different sports require different surfaces in order for them to be played in the best possible way.


Every single clip of soccer before 1994 in England show terrible terrible pitches by the time january hit. It really explains the traditional love of longball on the british isles. But fieldturf has to be better than those mudholes they used to play in the 60s in England, especially in the rain. :lol:

Anyway, no SSS has an artificial field. Actually, the pitches in Chicago, Columbus, RSL, Colorado are world-class during the MLS season. 
No one but the must myopic Seattle fans thinks fieldturf is ok, but that's why so many teams are building their own stadiums. BMO was an anomaly because the city of Toronto wanted it rent it out 12 hours a day whenever the team wasnt using it. Which is ridiculous, no amateur team in the US needs to hold games and practice in a 20k stadium. But that will be fixed for next season.

Only Seattle and New England should be left.


----------



## Ganis

Whats the news on San Jose's stadium???


----------



## RMB2007

If anyone is interested, then the link below provides a pretty good read about artificial turf. It mentions the impact artificial turf has had here in the UK and in the USA.

http://www.pitchcare.com/magazine/artificial-turf-comes-of-age.html


----------



## matthemod

SIC said:


> Every single clip of soccer before 1994 in England show terrible terrible pitches by the time january hit. It really explains the traditional love of longball on the british isles. But fieldturf has to be better than those mudholes they used to play in the 60s in England, especially in the rain. :lol:


In all fairness, the quality and technology to maintain fantastic quality pitches all year around has improved so much since even the mid 90's! It's not uncommon anymore for pitches of even the smaller teams to have undersoil drainage, these massive lamps that help with making the grass grow etc etc. It's getting rarer and rarer to see these bad pitches (I kind of miss them!) and it's basically extinct within the Premiership!


----------



## Bobby3

I hurt my ankle as a teenager, and my friend hurt his knee. Neither of us can play on artificial turf and play again the next day. With grass it's rarely an issue.

You can't improve upon nature.


----------



## KingmanIII

matthemod said:


> In all fairness, the quality and technology to maintain fantastic quality pitches all year around has improved so much since even the mid 90's! It's not uncommon anymore for pitches of even the smaller teams to have undersoil drainage, these massive lamps that help with making the grass grow etc etc. It's getting rarer and rarer to see these bad pitches (I kind of miss them!) and it's basically extinct within the Premiership!


In other parts of Europe it isn't.

It was either Fiorentina or Palermo that had one of the most beat-up pitches I've EVER seen.


----------



## ryebreadraz

Ganis said:


> Whats the news on San Jose's stadium???


They're still a ways off. Nothing new on that front.


----------



## jtk1519

Luke80 said:


> That excuse about getting sun in summer is rubbish. In England we get very little direct sun and play our football season through the winter. Teams insist on grass because it is better for football. Some people don't seem able to accept different sports require different surfaces in order for them to be played in the best possible way.


I never said the sun was the issue. The cold is. It gets a good bit colder in cities in the North of America (Buffalo, Boston, etc.) than it does in the UK. It's the abundant snow and numerous hard freezes that make it much harder to keep a good grass surface in those climates. That combined with how hard football is on the playing surface is why a vast majority of NFL and major college stadiums (Ohio State, Michigan, Illinois, etc.) in the US North use turf and why soccer venues up there that are shared with football teams pretty much require turf.

SSS can get away with just a grass surface because, again, soccer just isn't near as hard on the grass and because the MLS regular season ends in October, before most of the hard weather hits. I would almost guarantee you that if the MLS schedule dragged into December and January, teams like Columbus and Toronto wouldn't be near as attached to grass. Don't get me wrong, I prefer grass, but the reasons for turf are numerous and justified.


----------



## ryebreadraz

The weather isn't much of an issue. Great grass is grown in places just as cold as Buffalo and Toronto. The football is a real issue. It tears grass apart.


----------



## JYDA

The cold is an issue for teams with limited resources. That's why artificial surfaces are becoming more prevalent in Norway, Sweden, Austria and Switzerland for clubs that can't afford the extra cost. There are now 6 teams in the top league of Norway playing on the fake stuff and that number will likely continue to rise.


----------



## ØlandDK

^^
It isn't always because they can't afford it. Sometimes normal grass just can't grow under those hard weather conditions (especially in Norway). Also here in Denmark artificial turfs are becoming more normal - but only at a lower level and for training. The danish champions FC Copenhagen e.g. often train on artificial turfs.


----------



## SJAnfield

Baltimore is trying to build a stadium and lure DC United. 

http://wjz.com/wireapnewsmd/Baltimore.mayor.makes.2.1231572.html

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/blast/bal-sp.soccer07oct07,0,7674752.story


----------



## Ganis

Baltimore United?


----------



## nyrmetros

very interesting indeed......


----------



## JYDA

I think DC United needs to downgrade their expectations for the quality of a new stadium so they can stay where they are. All along they've been looking to have something extravagant which would cost a pretty penny. This was their initial rendering











It's time to look for something cheap


----------



## ryebreadraz

JYDA said:


> I think DC United needs to downgrade their expectations for the quality of a new stadium so they can stay where they are. All along they've been looking to have something extravagant which would cost a pretty penny. This was their initial rendering
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's time to look for something cheap


That was their original, working plan and has been all but scrapped for a long time. They haven't been able to get a location nailed down with minimal funding so the cost of their proposal hasn't even come into play.


----------



## JYDA

ryebreadraz said:


> That was their original, working plan and has been all but scrapped for a long time. They haven't been able to get a location nailed down with minimal funding so the cost of their proposal hasn't even come into play.


I know the first one was scrapped. That's why I called it their initial render. That's just one example of them wanting too much at the poplar point site. In the Prince George County deal that never even got to the feasibility study stage they wanted a stadium in the region of $180 to $195 million. The owners were even talking about designing it to resemble the Emirates.


----------



## ryebreadraz

JYDA said:


> I know the first one was scrapped. That's why I called it their initial render. That's just one example of them wanting too much at the poplar point site. In the Prince George County deal that never even got to the feasibility study stage they wanted a stadium in the region of $180 to $195 million. The owners were even talking about designing it to resemble the Emirates.


Every stadium project begins with proclamations like that. Look at what San Jose was going to be, then what they got. Same with Kansas City. NFL, NBA and MLB teams have done the same when they were looking for stadiums/arenas. What DCU has been saying hasn't been the difference in getting a stadium done. The stadium hasn't been the major issue in these deals, but the project that they want to build around the stadium and the funding/tax exemptions that would go with it. If DCU was asking for a $100 million stadium it still wouldn't be done by now. 

Following the Nationals Stadium debacle, DC has no interest in any help for another stadium. Maryland/Prince George's County doesn't want to fund anything either as they question the loyalty and benefits of a stadium following FedEx Field. There just isn't an ideal location with a cooperative government.


----------



## metros11

ryebreadraz said:


> Every stadium project begins with proclamations like that. Look at what San Jose was going to be, then what they got.


I just want to stress that they don't have anything yet. And in my personal opinion, if they ever do that roof in the renderings is going to disappear, well at least partially.


----------



## ryebreadraz

metros11 said:


> I just want to stress that they don't have anything yet. And in my personal opinion, if they ever do that roof in the renderings is going to disappear, well at least partially.


Yeah, they're still a ways off. I was just making the point that all stadium plans begin with talks of these great, amazing things and end up being downgraded a lot. DCU did the same and I highly doubt that they expected their original thing to be built.


----------



## krudmonk

ryebreadraz said:


> Look at what San Jose was going to be, then what they got.


Our first ever rendering came out less than a month ago. Nothing has been changed.


----------



## ryebreadraz

krudmonk said:


> Our first ever rendering came out less than a month ago. Nothing has been changed.


Nothing has changed since the first renderings, but upon getting a team, Wolff's plans for the stadium was 18,000 seats, not 15,000 and it would include some of the amenities (luxury suites) that have since been eschewed. Plans are always downgraded from the original.


----------



## SJAnfield

ryebreadraz said:


> Nothing has changed since the first renderings, but upon getting a team, Wolff's plans for the stadium was 18,000 seats, not 15,000 and it would include some of the amenities (luxury suites) that have since been eschewed. Plans are always downgraded from the original.


Lew anounced it would 15,000 with no luxury boxes last year, (mid summer if I remember. I think this is his plan. Plus he's too cheap to do a redesign. I'll say it again, I'm positive we'll see that roof. Its the only thing thats stayed constant in this stadium. plus its right next to the airport. I can only imagine the marketing potential of putting a comapny's logo accross the roof.


----------



## ryebreadraz

SJAnfield said:


> Lew anounced it would 15,000 with no luxury boxes last year, (mid summer if I remember. I think this is his plan. Plus he's too cheap to do a redesign. I'll say it again, I'm positive we'll see that roof. Its the only thing thats stayed constant in this stadium. plus its right next to the airport. I can only imagine the marketing potential of putting a comapny's logo accross the roof.


Sounds about right. When granted the team in 2007, the stadium would be bigger and have suites. By last summer, we were hearing a project that looked just like the renderings we got.


----------



## krudmonk

Um, when the team was originally coming back, the shared SJSU facility was still planned. They backed out because they're idiots who want to put carpeted lipstick on an 80-year old pig. Of course things have changed.


----------



## SJAnfield

krudmonk said:


> Um, when the team was originally coming back, the shared SJSU facility was still planned. They backed out because they're idiots who want to put carpeted lipstick on an 80-year old pig. Of course things have changed.


Carpeted lipstick on an 80 year old pig... I couldn't have said it better myself!:lol:

Spartan Shops screwed up the whole deal. They wanted Lew to build it, and then have them take it over and run it. It was a ridiculous idea. That’s why the Quakes backed out. Now the Spartans are stuck with an aging inferior stadium, while the Quakes will have their own brand-spanking-new stadium that is soccer specific. No gridiron lines is a great thing!


----------



## ryebreadraz

krudmonk said:


> Um, when the team was originally coming back, the shared SJSU facility was still planned. They backed out because they're idiots who want to put carpeted lipstick on an 80-year old pig. Of course things have changed.


Ok, maybe it wasn't when they first got the team, but it wasn't long after. The first plan was ~$130 million and 18,000 seats. 

http://sanjose.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2008/04/14/daily20.html?ana=from_rss


----------



## krudmonk

I think it was always 18K capacity, not all seated. Wolff still envisions a full berm on the northeast end. Personally, I'm not a fan of that weasely language, but I wouldn't say his plans have changed all that much. Also, the relatively unique design was supposed to be part of the compromise so it's not like all has gone downhill since that article was published. We didn't hear anything about a roof until earlier this year.


----------



## nyrmetros

Any pics from the WCQ at RFK?


----------



## metros11

http://www.shawneedispatch.com/news/2009/oct/16/state-makes-offer-entice-wizards-village-west/

Looks like Kansas is throwing a lot of money at them.


----------



## nyrmetros

that looks very nice indeed.


----------



## eMKay

Watching MLS Playoffs now, Sounders vs. Dynamo in Seattle, the atmosphere is amazing. MLS is coming of age right before my eyes.


----------



## SIC

http://web.mlsnet.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=7097843


----------



## Scba

eMKay said:


> Watching MLS Playoffs now, Sounders vs. Dynamo in Seattle, the atmosphere is amazing. MLS is coming of age right before my eyes.


Could get some flak for this, but the word poseur keeps popping into my mind every time I see the crowd acting wild and throwing junk on the field in Seattle. Not sold on it.


----------



## soup or man

And a preview for what's going to happen in the next few years.


----------



## KingmanIII

Scba said:


> Could get some flak for this, but the word poseur keeps popping into my mind every time I see the crowd acting wild and throwing junk on the field in Seattle. Not sold on it.


I know where you're coming from...but you can't blame 'em for trying to build from the ground-up. They don't have a century of history and tradition to fall back on like a European club such as Celtic or Panathinaikos. Hopefully the flame keeps burning strong in the Pacific Northwest...their passion is an inspiration for American footy, not only on the domestic level, but the international level, as well.


----------



## eMKay

They're not building from the ground up there, they have 35 years of history to fall back on with the first two Sounders teams.


----------



## KingmanIII

eMKay said:


> They're not building from the ground up there, they have 35 years of history to fall back on with the first two Sounders teams.


Correct, but this is their first year in a long, long time as a top-flight club and their fanbase has increased exponentially from their years in the USL...many of today's supporters were young children (if even born) when the original NASL incarnation played.


----------



## Bobby3

The USL club did play a huge roll in the current team's success though, the main supporters group started there and as such had banners, songs, all that stuff already together when the new team came.

Plus it kept alive their rivalry with Portland and Vancouver.


----------



## mattec

metros11 said:


> http://www.shawneedispatch.com/news/2009/oct/16/state-makes-offer-entice-wizards-village-west/
> 
> Looks like Kansas is throwing a lot of money at them.


KC would be stupid not to tke this


----------



## ryebreadraz

mattec said:


> KC would be stupid not to tke this


How's the location? How far from the population centers of KC and how accessible is it?


----------



## eMKay

ryebreadraz said:


> How's the location? How far from the population centers of KC and how accessible is it?


Looks like it's about 10 miles west of downtown at the intersection of I70 and I435 (two major highways) so it's close and access looks easy.


----------



## ryebreadraz

eMKay said:


> Looks like it's about 10 miles west of downtown at the intersection of I70 and I435 (two major highways) so it's close and access looks easy.


If that's the case and the location won't be a detriment to drawing crowds like in Dallas, they should jump on this deal from the state and get to building.


----------



## krudmonk

Frisco is about three times further from Dallas. KC should be okay.


----------



## Bobby3

ryebreadraz said:


> If that's the case and the location won't be a detriment to drawing crowds like in Dallas, they should jump on this deal from the state and get to building.


Dallas' situation is like putting a team in Corona and calling it "LA".


----------



## KingmanIII

ryebreadraz said:


> How's the location? How far from the population centers of KC and how accessible is it?





eMKay said:


> Looks like it's about 10 miles west of downtown at the intersection of I70 and I435 (two major highways) so it's close and access looks easy.


It's being built out in the Village West/Kansas Speedway area; not too long of a drive for all the rich soccer-loving folks from Johnson County but it can take half an hour or longer to get there from the eastern side of the metro such as Lee's Summit, Independence, Blue Springs, etc..


----------



## BoulderGrad

KingmanIII said:


> It's being built out in the Village West/Kansas Speedway area; not too long of a drive for all the rich soccer-loving folks from Johnson County but it can take half an hour or longer to get there from the eastern side of the metro such as Lee's Summit, Independence, Blue Springs, etc..


Just a breif survey of SSS in MLS:

-Toyota Park (Chicago Fire): Bridgeview, IL, 12 miles from Downtown Chicago
-Columbus Crew Stadium: Columbus, OH, 5 miles from Downtown Columbus
-Red Bull Arena (NY Red Bulls): Harrison, NJ, 10 Miles from Manhattan
-BMO Field (Toronto FC): Toronto, ON, 2.5 miles from Downtown Toronto
-Home Depot Center(LA Galaxy, Chivas USA): Carson, CA, 17 Miles from Downtown LA
-Dick's Sporting Goods Park (Colorado Rapids): Commerce City, CO, 9 miles from Downtown Denver
-Pizza Hut Park (FC Dallas): Frisco, TX 30 miles from Downtown Dallas
-Rio Tinto Stadium (Real Salt Lake): Sandy, UT, 14 miles from Downtown SLC

Future Stadiums:
-Union Field at Chester (Philadelphia Union): Chester, PA, 20 Miles from Downtown Philadelphia
-New Dynamo Stadium (Houston Dynamo): Houston TX, in Downtown Houston
-New Earthquakes Stadium (San Jose Earthquakes): San Jose, Ca, 2 miles from Downtown
-PGE Park (Portland Timbers): Portland, OR, ~1 mile from Downtown Portland

-New Wizards Stadium (Kansas City Wizards): Kansas City?, KS, 16 miles from downtown

So the new Wizards stadium is middle of the pack when it comes to proximity to the center of the city the team represents. Definitely not the worst (30 miles Dallas, really?), or the best (Houston, Portland).


----------



## ryebreadraz

BoulderGrad said:


> Just a breif survey of SSS in MLS:
> 
> -Toyota Park (Chicago Fire): Bridgeview, IL, 12 miles from Downtown Chicago
> -Columbus Crew Stadium: Columbus, OH, 5 miles from Downtown Columbus
> -Red Bull Arena (NY Red Bulls): Harrison, NJ, 10 Miles from Manhattan
> -BMO Field (Toronto FC): Toronto, ON, 2.5 miles from Downtown Toronto
> -Home Depot Center(LA Galaxy, Chivas USA): Carson, CA, 17 Miles from Downtown LA
> -Dick's Sporting Goods Park (Colorado Rapids): Commerce City, CO, 9 miles from Downtown Denver
> -Pizza Hut Park (FC Dallas): Frisco, TX 30 miles from Downtown Dallas
> -Rio Tinto Stadium (Real Salt Lake): Sandy, UT, 14 miles from Downtown SLC
> 
> Future Stadiums:
> -Union Field at Chester (Philadelphia Union): Chester, PA, 20 Miles from Downtown Philadelphia
> -New Dynamo Stadium (Houston Dynamo): Houston TX, in Downtown Houston
> -New Earthquakes Stadium (San Jose Earthquakes): San Jose, Ca, 2 miles from Downtown
> -PGE Park (Portland Timbers): Portland, OR, ~1 mile from Downtown Portland
> 
> -New Wizards Stadium (Kansas City Wizards): Kansas City?, KS, 16 miles from downtown
> 
> So the new Wizards stadium is middle of the pack when it comes to proximity to the center of the city the team represents. Definitely not the worst (30 miles Dallas, really?), or the best (Houston, Portland).


Things like this is why I was hoping for a KC resident to provide some information. Distance from downtown can be misleading. In some cases, it's an accurate judge as to quality of location, but in others, it is not. Some have downtown areas that are dead and the majority of the population lives away from it, making a location away from downtown better. Portland, Houston and Toronto are or will be ideally situated because of the public transportation that is so close to the stadium and where the population is. Meanwhile, the HDC sits 17 miles from downtown and while downtown would be a great place to play, Carson is a great area for it too because it is accessible by freeways and close to a large soccer loving population.


----------



## JYDA

Sod is down at Red Bull Arena


----------



## krudmonk

ryebreadraz said:


> Things like this is why I was hoping for a KC resident to provide some information. Distance from downtown can be misleading. In some cases, it's an accurate judge as to quality of location, but in others, it is not. Some have downtown areas that are dead and the majority of the population lives away from it, making a location away from downtown better. Portland, Houston and Toronto are or will be ideally situated because of the public transportation that is so close to the stadium and where the population is. Meanwhile, the HDC sits 17 miles from downtown and while downtown would be a great place to play, Carson is a great area for it too because it is accessible by freeways and close to a large soccer loving population.


Since we don't have franchises in Lubbock or Bakersfield, I'd say that downtown is the ideal setting for any and all MLS stadia. This is especial true in smaller, single-node metros like Kansas City. Anything to enhance the game-going experience is a plus.


----------



## metros11

ElVoltageDR said:


> That's just jawdropping. Man if only it could get built...


Which isn't likely. Much like this retractable roof design Cleveland had released.


----------



## soup or man

So the MLS Playoffs are ongoing. 

In the east, Real Salt Lake knocked off the Columbus Crew (who won the MLS Cup last year) and are waiting to see who they'll face in the Eastern Finals between the Chicago Fire and the New England Revolution.

In the west, matches continue between the LA Galaxy and Chivas USA as well as Houston Dynamo and Seattle Sounders FC.

Oh and the MLS Cup will be at Qwest Field. Imagine if Seattle makes it to the MLS Cup.


----------



## nyrmetros

Cbus had a really good supporters section last night.


----------



## ryebreadraz

nyrmetros said:


> Cbus had a really good supporters section last night.


The Nordecke has been fantastic the last couple years, but unfortunately, the rest of the crowd (or lack thereof) haven't measured up. They do have one of the top supporters sections in the league though. They're in that upper echelon with Seattle, Toronto, DC, Chicago.


----------



## Benn

krudmonk said:


> Wow, that was proposed for a USL team??


It was/is on the boards under the condition that the Thunder move from USL-1 to the MLS. Other conditions would include an owner that is willing to pay for the expansion fee as well as some of the stadiums cost, and an economy that doesn't have developers scared shitless. So right now it looks pretty bleak.


----------



## buy

im watching Chicago v New England now. Toyota Park looks nice filled up, but the shots are spoilt by the vast expanse that is "concerstage."

the play is definitely getting better within the league's top. Goals might still be coming from goalkeeping/player errors, some are well played out, and the passing has been better too. 

but that's only like 5 teams and the rest suck. 
Thoughts on Houston's ssc? Seems like its on the fast track.


----------



## mattec

buy said:


> but that's only like 5 teams and the rest suck.
> Thoughts on Houston's ssc? Seems like its on the fast track.


Houston's not a done deal yet...

There are still a couple political hurdles they need to overcome and they probably hinge on who wins the mayorial race.

Parker is against building any new stadiums, while Locke is a former CEO of the sports athority and Houston Dynamo president.

http://houston.bizjournals.com/hous...election_casts_cloud_over_dynamo_stadium.html


----------



## nyrmetros

Houston said they sold out the lower bowl for today's game.


----------



## ryebreadraz

nyrmetros said:


> Houston said they sold out the lower bowl for today's game.


What's considered the lower bowl there? Robertson Stadium is basically just one level on each side. Houston has always had fantastic support for the playoffs so I expect nothing less today. They topped 30,000 for each playoff game the last two years. Hopefully they can do it again today.


----------



## buy

the lower bowl looks alright, not as intense of an atmosphere as quest field with 30k+, or even toyota park yesterday, which was rocking. 

houston v seattle attendance was ~27,000


----------



## krudmonk

How does Robertson have a better soccer setup than HDC? Look how high up and far back that front row is. It looks like some monster NFL stadium. At least the fans sound good on both sides.


----------



## eMKay

LA and Chivas USA putting on a nice show, packed house, not as loud as when Chivas was the home team but still very nice. 5:00 of stoppage time though, jeebus! end it already!

edit: LA advances. brawl almost erupts on the field, lol


----------



## Aka

soup or man said:


> Oh and the MLS Cup will be at Qwest Field. Imagine if Seattle makes it to the MLS Cup.


They won't.

Real Salt Lake-Chicago Fire

Houston Dynamo-Los Angeles Galaxy


----------



## BoulderGrad

Aka said:


> They won't.
> 
> Real Salt Lake-Chicago Fire
> 
> Houston Dynamo-Los Angeles Galaxy


Hoping for an LA v Chicago final.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

eMKay said:


> LA and Chivas USA putting on a nice show, packed house, not as loud as when Chivas was the home team but still very nice. 5:00 of stoppage time though, jeebus! end it already!
> 
> edit: LA advances. brawl almost erupts on the field, lol



i was at both games, and this crowd seemed louder. Chanting and dancing the whole time. The Chivas home game was probably 40% galaxy fans while this game was 90% galaxy fans. Very fun times, and HDC is a great stadium. fantastic site lines, the feel and the comfort.


----------



## ryebreadraz

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> i was at both games, and this crowd seemed louder. Chanting and dancing the whole time. The Chivas home game was probably 40% galaxy fans while this game was 90% galaxy fans. Very fun times, and HDC is a great stadium. fantastic site lines, the feel and the comfort.


I was at both too and tonight's match was most definitely louder. The mic's were setup in the same places for both matches, but for the Chivas match, the supporters groups were close to the mic's so on TV it probably seemed louder.

As for the HDC, it is fantastic. The only issue I have with it is the first row of seats is so far from the sidelines, but besides that, fantastic.


----------



## JYDA

ryebreadraz said:


> I was at both too and tonight's match was most definitely louder. The mic's were setup in the same places for both matches, but for the Chivas match, the supporters groups were close to the mic's so on TV it probably seemed louder.
> 
> As for the HDC, it is fantastic. *The only issue I have with it is the first row of seats is so far from the sidelines, but besides that, fantastic*.


That was a real boneheaded design move that was made at the HDC and Dick's Park in Colorado. In both cases they thought it would be a great idea to build the pitch with the maximum legal playing width. In both cases that lasted a short while until they realized it was a dumb idea and narrowed the field to the FIFA regulation 68 metre width. The result is the first row is a long way from the touch lines at HDC and Dick's Park. More recent designs learned from this and have planned to play with regulation width from the outset.


----------



## ryebreadraz

JYDA said:


> That was a real boneheaded design move that was made at the HDC and Dick's Park in Colorado. In both cases they thought it would be a great idea to build the pitch with the maximum legal playing width. In both cases that lasted a short while until they realized it was a dumb idea and narrowed the field to the FIFA regulation 68 metre width. The result is the first row is a long way from the touch lines at HDC and Dick's Park. More recent designs learned from this and have planned to play with regulation width from the outset.


That actually wasn't the reasoning. The current pitch allows for the maximum width, but the reason the first row is so far from the sideline is because they want to leave that room available for expansion. If they do decide to expand the stadium at some point, the first expansion will be to lower the field and put seats in there.


----------



## eMKay

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> i was at both games, and this crowd seemed louder. Chanting and dancing the whole time. The Chivas home game was probably 40% galaxy fans while this game was 90% galaxy fans. Very fun times, and HDC is a great stadium. fantastic site lines, the feel and the comfort.





ryebreadraz said:


> I was at both too and tonight's match was most definitely louder. The mic's were setup in the same places for both matches, but for the Chivas match, the supporters groups were close to the mic's so on TV it probably seemed louder.
> 
> As for the HDC, it is fantastic. The only issue I have with it is the first row of seats is so far from the sidelines, but besides that, fantastic.



kay: To live reports confirming I'm wrong, sometimes you can't really tell on TV


----------



## gugasounds

The team is called Chivas USA, not Chivas.
There is only one Chivas.


----------



## weava

krudmonk said:


> Watching soccer on a gridiron field makes you realize how ridiculous a gridiron field is. Why do they need every five yards marked out and with huge numbers? Do they get lost that easily?


its a game of inches and field position, so yes all the lines are needed.



Billpa said:


> I can NOT watch a soccer match with gridiron lines visable- it's just awful.


And I hate watching football where the field hockey and soccer lines are painted on the field.


----------



## bigbossman

weava said:


> its a game of inches and field position, so yes all the lines are needed.


isn't that what the chains on the side are for? All you need to know is where the first down is no...


----------



## Billpa

The rugby lines are not nearly as intrusive but obviously I'd prefer the pitch with only the lines necessary for the game being played. This is not an anti-American football thing I'm on- I enjoy college on Saturday and NFL on Sunday as much as the next guy. 

As far as the poster who doesn't like the soccer lines on the gridiron field, I understand where you're coming from. I assume you're not simply saying that as a slap at soccer- that you actually feel that way.


----------



## Billpa

bigbossman said:


> isn't that what the chains on the side are for? All you need to know is where the first down is no...


Yes, but there are several reasons for the yard lines and hash-marks. For one thing you need to get the ball in just the right spot before each play. Not only on the proper yardline but also at the right point in relation to the sideline or touchline to use a socceresque term.


----------



## Bobby3

weava said:


> And I hate watching football where the field hockey and soccer lines are painted on the field.


We all know how obtrusive those damn field hockey lines are.


----------



## krudmonk

weava said:


> its a game of inches and field position, so yes all the lines are needed.


A game of inches? Are you writing a god damn commercial?


bigbossman said:


> isn't that what the chains on the side are for? All you need to know is where the first down is no...


Haha, it took one post to disprove his stupid claim. I guess all the lines are there just to make gridiron look X-TREME, BRO!!!!


----------



## Billpa

krudmonk said:


> A game of inches? Are you writing a god damn commercial?
> 
> Haha, it took one post to disprove his stupid claim. I guess all the lines are there just to make gridiron look X-TREME, BRO!!!!


Neither one of you seems to know about the sport.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

herb21 said:


> But you would think they would structure into the rental agreement that the lines would be repainted, they have to paint the soccer lines on and off anyway for the football so why not do it the other way.


Exactly. They're paying pretty good money to the University of Houston right? They should be able to get those lines off for soccer matches.


krudmonk said:


> Haha, it took one post to disprove his stupid claim. I guess all the lines are there just to make gridiron look X-TREME, BRO!!!!


The hash marks just make it easier for officials to see the team's position on the field.


----------



## Commandant

What Football Playing Field White Lines Mean... For Dummies (or krudmonk) :lol:
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/what-football-playing-field-white-lines-mean.html

All over the field, you see a bunch of white lines. Every line has a special meaning.

The lines at each end of the field are called the end lines.

The lines along each side of the field are called the sidelines.

The goal lines are 10 yards inside and parallel to each end line.

The area bounded by the goal lines and sidelines is known as the field of play.

The field is divided in half by the 50-yard line, which is located in the middle of the field.

The two areas bounded by the goal lines, end lines, and sidelines are known as the end zones.

The field also contains yard lines, hash marks, and lines marking the player benches.

Yard lines, at intervals of 5 yards, run parallel to the goal lines and are marked across the field from sideline to sideline. These lines stop 8 inches short of the 6-foot solid border in the NFL.

Yard lines give players and fans an idea of how far a team must advance the ball in order to record a first down. An offensive team must gain 10 yards in order to post a first down. Consequently, every 10 yards, starting from the goal lines, the field is numbered in multiples of 10.

In the NFL, the bottoms of these numbers are placed 12 yards from each sideline. The numbers 10, 20, 30, 40, and one 50-yard line are 2 yards in length. All these lines and numbers are white.

Hash marks mark each yard line 70 feet, 9 inches from the sidelines in the NFL. In high school and college football, the hash marks are only 60 feet from the sidelines. Two sets of hash marks (each hash is 1 yard in length) run parallel to each other down the length of the field and are approximately 18½ feet apart.

When the ball carrier is either tackled or pushed out of bounds, the officials return the ball in-bounds to the closest hash mark to where it’s spotted. Punted balls that go out of bounds are also marked on the nearest hash mark.

The hash marks are used for ball placement prior to most offensive plays so that more of the game can be played in the middle of the field, which makes the game more wide open. If the ball was placed 20 feet from where it went out of bounds rather than on the closest hash mark, offenses would be restricted to one open side of the field for many of their run and pass plays.

In other words, they would have to run or pass to the right or the left, and wouldn’t have the option to do both. But, when teams run the football and the ball carrier is tackled between the hash marks, the ball is declared dead at that spot and generally is placed where the ball carrier was tackled and stopped.


----------



## SIC

Conversations in Soccer - Gino Rossetti of Rossetti Architects

http://theoriginalwinger.com/2009-1...no-rossetti-of-rossetti-architects#more-23271


----------



## krudmonk

A clarification on my viewpoint for dummies that idolize Che Guevara because Rage Against The Machine made him into a cool marketing tool:


Billpa said:


> Neither one of you seems to know about the sport.


I've watched it practically my whole life. No need to cry just because I said the field has way too much shit painted on it.


ElVoltageDR said:


> The hash marks just make it easier for officials to see the team's position on the field.


If it was just a bunch of hash marks, that'd be fine. But no, it's whole lines every five yards, giant numbers every ten, sidelines that look like a buffer zone, endzones that look like marquees and various other crap.

No other merits of gridiron football are being called into question, so fucking relax.


----------



## Commandant

krudmonk said:


> A clarification on my viewpoint for dummies that idolize Che Guevara because Rage Against The Machine made him into a cool marketing tool:
> 
> I've watched it practically my whole life.


Since we are on the subject of intelligence... How can you watch football your whole life and STILL not know what the fuckin lines are for? :nuts: 



krudmonk said:


> I guess all the lines are there just to make gridiron look X-TREME, BRO!!!!


Such a brilliant observation, way to go!!!


----------



## krudmonk

Commandant said:


> Since we are on the subject of intelligence... How can you watch football your whole life and STILL not know what the fuckin lines are for? :nuts:


Where did I say I didn't know what they're for? All I said is that it's ridiculous overkill. Even the English guy debunked their necessity because the yard markers on the sideline are what truly determine position. Ever seen a close play? They bring out the chains, not stare at painted grass.


----------



## Hoferat

dl3000 said:


> Wow Red Bull Arena looks like Europe, looks legit. Definitely best SSS.


Thats probably because it actually is a European football stadium:
http://www.stadionwelt.de/sw_stadien/index.php?folder=sites&site=stadionfotos_detail&id=4175&ordner=innen&page=1

I'm sure this has been discussed before though, the Red Bull New York Arena is clone of the Euro 2008 Wörtherseestadion in Klagenfurt, Austria.


----------



## koolio

krudmonk said:


> Where did I say I didn't know what they're for? All I said is that it's ridiculous overkill. Even the English guy debunked their necessity because the yard markers on the sideline are what truly determine position. Ever seen a close play? They bring out the chains, not stare at painted grass.


Have you really watched the sport your whole life? Pray tell how the chain in the sidelines benefits the players on the field? The yard markings benefit the players as they get an idea as to how many yards they need to gain.


----------



## krudmonk

koolio said:


> Have you really watched the sport your whole life? Pray tell how the chain in the sidelines benefits the players on the field? The yard markings benefit the players as they get an idea as to how many yards they need to gain.


Yes, this is why I conceded that hash marks were necessary. The chains are still the official marking by which the referees abide. Pay attention.

And a lot of good that does anyway. Just look at Belichick and Brady combining brainpower to throw short when needing just a yard or two on that infamous 4th down. I guess the giant numbers on the field weren't giant enough for them to see.


----------



## Billpa

krudmonk said:


> look at Belichick and Brady combining brainpower to throw short when needing just a yard or two on that infamous 4th down. I guess the giant numbers on the field weren't giant enough for them to see.


The ball was not in control of the receiver in first down territory according to the ref. If it had been it would've been a first down.

Wow, look at me feeding the troll :nuts:


----------



## krudmonk

Billpa said:


> The ball was not in control of the receiver in first down territory according to the ref. If it had been it would've been a first down.
> 
> Wow, look at me feeding the troll :nuts:


1. I know why it wasn't a first down. Are we even having the same conversation? Why are you explaining the rules to me?

2. How am I the troll? Not only is "trolling" a fishing reference, having nothing to do with creatures who dwell beneath bridges, but this is a soccer thread and the hypersensitive gridiron gang had to come in and bitch once again. All I said was that football fields didn't need so many lines. That honestly upset people? Are you fucking kidding? I hope you don't have a heart attack, but I also think the play clock is too long. What an insult to the holy game!


----------



## koolio

If you concede that hash marks and five yard lines are necessary for the players, what lines do you reckon are there just for the "Xtreme" factor?


----------



## krudmonk

koolio said:


> If you concede that hash marks and five yard lines are necessary for the players, what lines do you reckon are there just for the "Xtreme" factor?


I *didn't* concede that the lines every five yards were necessary. Players could easily get by with a single hash every five yards. Two equal a first down, Doesn't take a genius.


----------



## metros11

koolio said:


> I wonder if they will continue to play in their current stadium:
> UMBC Stadium (Crystal Palace Balti):


I would say yes. It's a really nice stadium, obviously built for expansion.

PS. Rumor is that the new league will be called NASL.


----------



## ryebreadraz

There was talk of a SSS being built in downtown Baltimore and them trying to lure DC United. We'll see what happens with that.


----------



## Billpa

What's the point of this new league as opposed to the ones where these teams currently reside?


----------



## bongo-anders

That is the perfect american stadium, you can walk directly from the carpark to the stand.


----------



## Bobby3

Is that UMBC stadium? Looks like the SoccerPlex.


----------



## metros11

Billpa said:


> What's the point of this new league as opposed to the ones where these teams currently reside?


Do a little research on USL and TOA, and you'll get your answers.


----------



## Alx-D

Bobby3 said:


> Is that UMBC stadium? Looks like the SoccerPlex.


It is the SoccerPlex. That's the home of Real Maryland not CP Baltimore.

This is UMBC Stadium:


----------



## Scba

Yeah, I was gonna say, that's definitely not UMBC. 

Sounds like a done deal that some form of new stadium is going to go up downtown.


----------



## Billpa

metros11 said:


> Do a little research on USL and TOA, and you'll get your answers.


Thanks, very helpful.


----------



## eMKay

bongo-anders said:


> That is the perfect american stadium, you can walk directly from the carpark to the stand.


It's called a parking lot, but yes, it's a convenient design.


----------



## Bobby3

Billpa said:


> What's the point of this new league as opposed to the ones where these teams currently reside?


Politics. The teams want control of the league and the USL doesn't want them to have it, so they left.

They don't believe the USL did enough marketing -- most of the marketing was in fact done by Traffic Sports, owners of Miami FC -- nor did it do enough to protect them from MLS teams poaching their towns.


----------



## krudmonk

eMKay said:


> It's called a parking lot


 Honestly, we're going to make this an issue? At least make a clever, light-hearted joke about it instead of just asserting the American lexicon over others.


----------



## Billpa

Bobby3 said:


> Politics. The teams want control of the league and the USL doesn't want them to have it, so they left.
> 
> They don't believe the USL did enough marketing -- most of the marketing was in fact done by Traffic Sports, owners of Miami FC -- nor did it do enough to protect them from MLS teams poaching their towns.


Well, I wish them luck- they certainly have some pretty large metro areas represented in the new league.


----------



## Commandant

krudmonk said:


> Honestly, we're going to make this an issue? At least make a clever, light-hearted joke about it instead of just asserting the American lexicon over others.


Oh just STFU!!! You wanna call someone out for making an issue of something? I have seen you do nothing but bitch and moan about any little thing since I joined this forum! Do you even think before you post?


----------



## krudmonk

Commandant said:


> Oh just STFU!!! You wanna call someone out for making an issue of something? I have seen you do nothing but bitch and moan about any little thing since I joined this forum! Do you even think before you post?


It's quite stupid to call me out for something on an occasion in which I'm guilty of the opposite.


----------



## Commandant

krudmonk said:


> It's quite stupid to call me out for something on an occasion in which I'm guilty of the opposite.


So that wasn't you on the last three pages of THIS THREAD bitchin about every comment that didn't fall in line with your viewpoint? How about the ice hockey venue thread which you now managed to get off topic with your ignorant comments? This thread is once again off topic because simple facts don't get through your thick skull.


----------



## krudmonk

Commandant said:


> So that wasn't you on the last three pages of THIS THREAD bitchin about every comment that didn't fall in line with your viewpoint? How about the ice hockey venue thread which you now managed to get off topic with your ignorant comments? This thread is once again off topic cause you can't realize simple facts!


1. Every comment? That was one continuous debate on a single topic. Do you understand how that works? Besides, people got tired of it and we got back on track.

2. The ice hockey thread got off-topic with the comment I refuted. Someone else brought up relocation, not me.

3. You're doing exactly what you're accusing me of.


----------



## Commandant

krudmonk said:


> 1. Every comment? That was one continuous debate on a single topic. Do you understand how that works? Besides, people got tired of it and we got back on track.


People got tired of you because you don't STFU! It's like beating a dead horse!



krudmonk said:


> 3. You're doing exactly what you're accusing me of.


Do you understand how this works? I'm trying to shut you up so we can get back on topic (and stay on topic). I don't need fifty million posts of your ignorance and stupidity. The topic is "Soccer Stadiums of the USA" not "krudmonk likes to see his comments on the screen no matter how stupid they are."


----------



## krudmonk

The irony still escapes you?


----------



## Commandant

hno:

Anyway, before I was interrupted, here is the newest sss in the United States:

Winning Bidders to Turn Silverdome Into Soccer Stadium
by Aaron Smith
Tuesday, November 17, 2009

An unidentified Canadian real estate company was the winning bidder for the Silverdome, snatching it up for a mere fraction of its original value.

A Toronto-based family-owned company bid $583,000 for the under-used stadium on Monday, which is currently owned by the City of Pontiac, Mich., according to auctioneer Williams & Williams.

The company plans to refurbish the Silverdome into a stadium for men's Major League Soccer and women's professional soccer teams, said the auctioneer. While the stadium was the former home of the National Football League's Detroit Lions, it also played host to the World Cup in 1994, when Brazil beat Italy in a knuckle-biter that ended in a penalty shootout.

The auctioneer Williams & Williams, based in Tulsa, Okla., said it will not identify the buyer "until the final details are worked out and the sale closes."

"The Silverdome will now be in the hands of professionals who can devote their time to transform this high-profile property into a vital asset instead of enabling it to continue to languish as an empty facility," said Fred Leeb, the emergency financial planner for Pontiac, in a press release.

The sale of the Silverdome takes a large financial burden off the hard-hit city of Pontiac, which has fallen on hard times, with budget shortfalls and high unemployment. Earlier this year, GM announced it would close a truck plant, taking about 1,400 jobs from the city.

As a result, Leeb said, Pontiac could ill afford to continue paying $1.5 million in annual upkeep for the stadium. With a private owner, the property "will go back on the tax rolls," he explained.

The 80,000-seat Silverdome was the biggest stadium in the National Football League when it was built in 1975 for $55.7 million. The stadium, which sits on a 127-acre plot, is also the former home of the National Basketball Association's Detroit Pistons.

The stadium reached its football zenith in 1982 as the site of Super Bowl XVI, when San Francisco's 49ers beat the Cincinnati Bengals.

The Silverdome has also served as a music venue for some of the hottest acts in show business, including Michael Jackson, Madonna and Elvis. Another high profile visitor, Pope John Paul II, once delivered Mass from the field.

But the Silverdome's biggest event was Wrestle Mania III in 1987, when 93,000 fans packed into the stadium to watch Hulk Hogan body-slam Andre the Giant. That was the biggest turnout ever for an indoor sports event.

Despite its rich history, the stadium has seen little use since 2002, when the Lions concluded their last season there.

"We want to convert a major premier asset of the city - convert it from something that's been languishing into a new, vibrant marquee asset of the city," said Leeb, in an October interview.


----------



## Commandant

Pontiac Silverdome (cap. 80,311), Pontiac, MI


----------



## Commandant

There are some problems...

Development company sues to block sale of Silverdome

MIKE MARTINDALE
The Detroit News

Pontiac -- A development company that has sought to buy the Silverdome for two years has filed an injunction to block Monday's sale of the sports facility to a Canadian group.

The injunction filed Monday afternoon in Oakland Circuit Court was too late to stop the auction, according to Bloomfield Hills attorney H. Wallace Parker, who has headed the Silver Stallion Development Corporation. But it may be able to stop the sale of the Silverdome, which went for $583,000 Monday in a closed door auction between four top bidders.

"We believe we have strong grounds to challenge this sale," said Parker, whose group once offered $20 million for the Silverdome only to see negotiations break down over disputes over repair work and a required fee. "There are a lot of angry, upset people in Pontiac right now. And we think we can open this back up and have it done right."

Parker said he hoped to be before Oakland Circuit Judge Edward Sosnick on Wednesday but said at this point, the city is blocked from continuing forward until the matter is decided by Sosnick.

The complaint for injunction names as defendants: the city of Pontiac, Mayor Clarence Phillips, Emergency Financial Manager Fred Leeb and Williams & Williams Marketing. It alleges breach of contract and racial discrimination against Silver Stallion Development, which is described as a minority corporation.


----------



## krudmonk

What's the news on an ownership group in Michigan? Will the buyers also run the franchise (in whatever league) or just revamp the place for a different sport?


----------



## Commandant

krudmonk said:


> What's the news on an ownership group in Michigan? Will the buyers also run the franchise (in whatever league) or just revamp the place for a different sport?


Not much is known about the buyers intentions. The man in the press conference that mentioned soccer and MLS was Fred Leeb an employee of the city of Pontiac. He read a quote given to him by the buyers. Here is a link with a little more info:

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2009/11/16/news/local_news/doc4b01ae940a136436209657.txt


----------



## krudmonk

Well whoever is going to get that ball rolling, I hope they started by deflating the roof and growing some grass. It looks like the pressure-sustained type they have in Minneapolis and Vancouver (and formerly Indianapolis). I'm sure it's not as simple as folding up a tent, but I doubt serious demolition is required to open the place up. As it relates to weather, American soccer will likely always be spring-to-fall due to several other cold cities already in MLS.

EDIT: Nevermind, Wiki says the roof is supported by steel now. That could be costly.


----------



## Commandant

They still might be able to take out the roof and the entire upper deck to try something like BC Place in Vancouver:










The Silverdome seating is like this:

Lower Level: 42,082 
Club Level-7,342 
Upper Level-29,399 
Private Suites-1,246


----------



## Commandant




----------



## JYDA

Space looks tight on the touch lines.


----------



## mattec

but a remod could change that...


----------



## Scba

I'll believe this Silverdome news when I see it.


----------



## ryebreadraz

It's Canada, not the US, but as a MLS stadium with implications on US soccer stadiums, I'm going to include it here. Toronto FC will most likely add 1,200 seats for next season in a permanent stand above the north end of BMO Field, which is currently a beer garden. The beer garden will stay and the new stand will be built 9 feet above it. The plan, which costs $2 million, will be funded by TFC and just needs to be approved by the Exposition Board and City Council, both of whom are expected to approve it. 

BMO Field is already getting grass put in for next season to replace the turf. The turf has already been removed and the playing surface is currently a big sand pit as they work to put the grass in.


----------



## 1772

Will the american football (soccer) system ever turn into like it is in the rest of the world? 

If so the last placed team of the MLS would be relegated to USL-1 or the new NASL-league? And the winner of that league would play in the MLS next year.


----------



## Walbanger

no


----------



## bigbossman

^^ No chance the country is too large in terms of area (and population for that matter), and American sport is generally all about profit. It seems to me that Garber isn't trying to grow football but eventually grow money from his money tree (mls) for all his investors. If he was trying to grow the sport MLS and football in America would be structured very differently. A professional national league from scratch was a bad idea, talk about run before you can walk.


----------



## GunnerJacket

bigbossman said:


> It seems to me that Garber isn't trying to grow football but eventually grow money from his money tree (mls) for all his investors. If he was trying to grow the sport MLS and football in America would be structured very differently.


If he was trying to use MLS to grow money for investors he's not doing a great job of it. Only a few clubs are profiting and even as general entertainment venues they've hardly made windfall profits for the likes of AEG. Perhaps a generation from now that will be different, but right now the overarching goal is sustainability for MLS and all clubs, which remains a few years out of reach.



> A professional national league from scratch was a bad idea, talk about run before you can walk.


Unless I'm mistaken a D1 league was a requirement for hosting the World Cup in 1994. There were discussions of elevating USL but eventually the powers that be (ie: the investors) decided to start from scratch. Not only did this streamline ownership, brand and marketing issues (from their standpoint, anyway) but it allowed them to pursue the collective entity format MLS employs to date. And while this set up remains far from perfect it has allowed the fledgling league to share the early losses and control costs, leading to the relatively healthy state of the league we see today. 

Part of that has to do with the owners/investors knowing they won't be facing relegation and a sudden drop in revenues, so I think it will be some time (if ever) before that becomes a discussion around here.

In the meantime USL and minor leagues will always have their struggles, since soccer isn't as popular here in the US as abroad. Someday...


----------



## bigbossman

GunnerJacket said:


> If he was trying to use MLS to grow money for investors he's not doing a great job of it. Only a few clubs are profiting and even as general entertainment venues they've hardly made windfall profits for the likes of AEG. Perhaps a generation from now that will be different, but right now the overarching goal is sustainability for MLS and all clubs, which remains a few years out of reach.


In the long run MLS will make money, that's the point. It won't grow the sport, it will make money from it's strategically selected markets.

You grow the sport by having teams everywhere anywhere and let the "market" decide where teams will settle.



> Unless I'm mistaken a D1 league was a requirement for hosting the World Cup in 1994.


I said *National* League. Most countries had professional football clubs before they had national leagues.

Your country is a continent, you should have regional leagues and a national playoff.



> There were discussions of elevating USL but eventually the powers that be (ie: the investors) decided to start from scratch. Not only did this streamline ownership, brand and marketing issues (from their standpoint, anyway) but it allowed them to pursue the collective entity format MLS employs to date. And while this set up remains far from perfect it has allowed the fledgling league to share the early losses and control costs, leading to the relatively healthy state of the league we see today.


My problem is the USA is too large for a national league, not only in terms of growth (look at the history of all football leagues they began regionally, even your american sports leagues were confined to the north east/great lakes for many years).

Also in terms of the impact they can have on the game, I heard sean wheelock on BBC talking about his hopes that MLS will catch up with the Argentine and Brazilian leagues soon, then pass them. For me that is not desireable nor i'm sure is that the case for Argies and Brazilians, as it would just mean another league for their best players to be coaxed too. 

We also could get an NBA/FIBA situation way ahead in the future, in that the MLS can get it to a level where the poorest team can pay the same as the richest teams in Europe (for the simple fact that all MLS markets are big), either forcing a European super league (which would make the NFL blush) or giving MLS the power to go against FIFA. As I said that's way in the future, but given the way your leagues are set up, one day in the future it could happen. 

Your model is good in theory for making money, but for the good of the game *FIFA really should put population/GDP limits on league sizes...* 



> Part of that has to do with the owners/investors knowing they won't be facing relegation and a sudden drop in revenues, so I think it will be some time (if ever) before that becomes a discussion around here.


Obviously, but that's a given in Europe, if you get relegated revenue goes down. But as i said, your leagues are motivated by profit not sporting competition. 

They say in Europe you must be mad to own a football club, because other than a select few you'll never make any money. If you had that culture it could happen.

It's only a problem because of the travel situation, relegation in a small country isn't as catastrophic financially.



> In the meantime USL and minor leagues will always have their struggles, since soccer isn't as popular here in the US as abroad. Someday...


But surely these minor league teams only struggle because the of the huge geographical distances. From what i have seen the attendances aren't _bad_ per se, and would be in a european country enough to sustain moderate wages for players, especially if you add in sponsorship etc


----------



## krudmonk

Leagues below USL operate regionally. If needed, a club could drop down to save on costs.


----------



## bigbossman

^^ I mean your top division should be regional too, like your college sports...


----------



## krudmonk

bigbossman said:


> ^^ I mean your top division should be regional too, like your college sports...


That would immediately destroy the credibility built over the past 14 seasons. You have to be national to register in minds, and even then it's not guaranteed.

Plus, if LA signs a Beckham then that does nothing to boost promotion in New York or Chicago or other eastern cities.


----------



## metros11

bigbossman said:


> ^^ I mean your top division should be regional too, like your college sports...


In a way it is, that's why we have an Eastern and a Western conference. But in reality in 2010 each team will play a home-and-home series with every other team in the league, like the rest of the world, so even though the conference setup will survive it will only be used to split the standings.


----------



## nyrmetros

krudmonk said:


> The logo would be fine if the brand did not engulf all of the team's identity. If that was just a kit sponsor, it'd look pretty badass relative to others. It becomes cringe territory when you realize the team name to go along with it. They should still be the Metros with a Red Bull logo on their shirts and seats, owned by Red Bull. Why is that so hard?


agreed.


----------



## BoulderGrad

krudmonk said:


> The logo would be fine if the brand did not engulf all of the team's identity. If that was just a kit sponsor, it'd look pretty badass relative to others. It becomes cringe territory when you realize the team name to go along with it. They should still be the Metros with a Red Bull logo on their shirts and seats, owned by Red Bull. Why is that so hard?


Because now they get a quarter every time you mention the team's name (brought to you by carls junior)


----------



## buy

new pics of RBA in Harrison, NJ, USA

seating bowl + vip boxes



















under the 2nd tier:



















vip boxes:










facade:


----------



## gugasounds

^^^^

Wow very nice this is actually the first real football stadium in the U.S.


----------



## Alan21LP

^^

The first real footbal stadium in the U.S. is the Home Depot Center 


Is the RBA expandable?



I like the facade:dance2:


----------



## JYDA

Alan21LP said:


> ^^
> 
> The first real footbal stadium in the U.S. is the Home Depot Center
> 
> 
> Is the RBA expandable?
> 
> 
> 
> I like the facade:dance2:


According to the architects, yes! They can put a third deck on it


----------



## ryebreadraz

JYDA said:


> According to the architects, yes! They can put a third deck on it


It would be a little more costly than expansions to the other SSS's in MLS, but it is built to be expandable. The roof would be raised and a third deck would be added, bringing capacity to ~40,000.


----------



## luis fernando

RBA in Harrison, NJ, USA is pretty similar to Pachuca Stadium


----------



## mazpro

luis fernando said:


> RBA in Harrison, NJ, USA is pretty similar to Pachuca Stadium


Not quite. It´s more similar to another stadium - but on purpose. 
Think this was mentioned very often.










pic borrowed from this blog:
http://groundhopping.over-blog.de/article-35163469.html

BTW i like the RB arena. Nice result.


----------



## SIC

BoulderGrad said:


> That would be Seattle, not Portland.
> 
> LA had a nice spike in attendance when Beckham first came along, but even with him around now, they still only draw 20,000-21,000 fans in a 27,000 seat stadium.
> 
> Also, Seattle and Toronto are very new franchises who started with avid fan bases. New York has had a franchise since the league started and has never been able to get much above 15,000 people per game. They might get a bit of a jump with a new stadium, but its not magically going to pop up to 30,000 people. Part of the attraction of building these smaller stadiums is that feeling of packing the house (that, and a higher demand for tickets raises prices). That's pretty hard to do in this league with a 30,000 or 35,000 seat stadium.


LA fans will have to back me up on this, but I think that LA drew better before Beckham. Because the galaxy raised season tickets by a lot and they missed the playoffs three years a in a row. So while they made more money, they drew less.


----------



## ryebreadraz

SIC said:


> LA fans will have to back me up on this, but I think that LA drew better before Beckham. Because the galaxy raised season tickets by a lot and they missed the playoffs three years a in a row. So while they made more money, they drew less.


LA led the league in attendance every year until this season since the opening of the HDC and even for a few years prior to their HDC move. Only once the ticket prices went sky high for Becks, but we didn't get Becks for a whole year did attendance drop off to a still good 20,000. Prior to Becks, we were averaging about 25,000 a game.


----------



## 1772

Wow, that Red Bull stadium actully looks really great. I'll definetly go when it's ready.


----------



## SIC

http://www.portlandmls2011.com/2009/12/timbers-annouce-pge-park-renovation-plans/

This will be my favorite stadium in the MLS, hands down. Because it has actual history and character. Not to mention the amazing atmosphere provided by Timbers Army. The 1st game vs Seattle is going to be mindblowing.


----------



## metros11

Alan21LP said:


> ^^
> 
> The first real footbal stadium in the U.S. is the Home Depot Center
> 
> 
> Is the RBA expandable?
> 
> 
> 
> I like the facade:dance2:


I have to disagree. The first real futbol stadium in the U.S. is the Crew Stadium.


----------



## Alan21LP

metros11 said:


> I have to disagree. The first real futbol stadium in the U.S. is the Crew Stadium.


True, I forgot the existence of Crew Stadium :lol:


----------



## Didier-Dro

that stadium in nj is the first european like soccer stadium in the usa.


----------



## SIC

Didier-Dro said:


> that stadium in nj is the first european like soccer stadium in the usa.


1st modern soccer stadium, yes. But the rest like Toyota Park and Home Depot center aren't far behind. All they really lack is a roof over all of their stands, but other than that they have modern amenities. Anyhoo, in a summer league the roofs are mostly for the shade (I went to every game this year in Chicago and we only got rain once, in what was the wettests summer in history. So it's not that big of a deal, unlike England in the winter). :cheers:

Anyway, lots of SSS news today. Vancouver is building a temp stadium for the BC lions and Whitecaps until the BC arena is completely renovated.


----------



## Didier-Dro

What canada lacks like is a big outdoor sport league like rugby, soccer, the cfl is okay but canada dontt have alot big stadiums


----------



## Scba

Timetable for Temp/BC Place constructions?

And what's going to happen to the Portland Beavers and Portland State team? MLS telling them to hit the road?


----------



## ryebreadraz

Scba said:


> Timetable for Temp/BC Place constructions?
> 
> And what's going to happen to the Portland Beavers and Portland State team? MLS telling them to hit the road?


They're working on building the Beavers their own stadium, while Portland State will stay at PGE. That's why they're just about guaranteed to have turf.


----------



## SIC

Didier-Dro said:


> What canada lacks like is a big outdoor sport league like rugby, soccer, the cfl is okay but canada dontt have alot big stadiums


For a country for their size, they actually do. BC place, rogers center, olympic stadium and that one stadium in Calgary are all 50-60k. Which isn't bad for a country of 30 million spread over a country the size of western europe. :lol:


----------



## Scba

Beavers still don't even have a location for their new park. Sad if they have to leave town for a few years.


----------



## Alx-D

Didier-Dro said:


> What canada lacks like is a big outdoor sport league like rugby, soccer, the cfl is okay but canada dontt have alot big stadiums


The CFL has one of the highest average attendances in the world. I'm not sure what you expect from us.


----------



## Alx-D

SIC said:


> Anyway, lots of SSS news today. Vancouver is building a temp stadium for the BC lions and Whitecaps until the BC arena is completely renovated.


I really like the look of this stadium. As much as I love the concept for the BC Place reno, it seems as though it would've been much cheaper to tear down BC Place, build a new convention centre on the land, and build a more luxurious version of Empire stadium.

For $14.4 million CDN, this looks like astounding value for money no matter how spartan the amenities.


----------



## Alx-D

Scba said:


> Timetable for Temp/BC Place constructions?


The timetable is from right now until June 2010.


















they got some work to do


----------



## hngcm

Alx-D said:


> The CFL has one of the highest average attendances in the world. I'm not sure what you expect from us.


30k is pretty low when you only have 72 games. 

In contrast, the NFL averages 68k with 256 games.


----------



## MegasAlexandros

Isn't this thread about stadiums in the USA?


----------



## JYDA

hngcm said:


> 30k is pretty low when you only have 72 games.
> 
> In contrast, the NFL averages 68k with 256 games.


Your logic is flawed. Home games per team is still the same in both leagues with 8 per season. Simply having more teams resulting in more games doesn't change anything because markets are generally insulated in both leagues. You just have more of them.

And with respect to the BC stadium, it should be moved to the Canada thread


----------



## ryebreadraz

MegasAlexandros said:


> Isn't this thread about stadiums in the USA?


This thread often includes stadiums for Toronto FC and now Vancouver Whitecaps because they will be part of the mainly USA league, MLS.


----------



## krudmonk

Yeah, relax. It's not like we've conquered you yet.


----------



## MegasAlexandros

JYDA said:


> Your logic is flawed. Home games per team is still the same in both leagues with 8 per season.


Your facts are flawed. The CFL season is 18 games meaning 9 home games per season. 



> And with respect to the BC stadium, it should be moved to the Canada thread


Thank you.



ryebreadraz said:


> This thread often includes stadiums for Toronto FC and now Vancouver Whitecaps because they will be part of the mainly USA league, MLS.


MLS is a mostly US based league? No kidding! But that's beside the point. If someone comes into these forums looking for info on Canadian stadiums, they would go into the "Canada, stadium development thread"... and guess what, they would find none of this relevant information. There's a reason threads are suppose to remain on topic. 



krudmonk said:


> Yeah, relax. It's not like we've conquered you yet.


And you never will.


----------



## danVan

Perhaps the thread should be retitled ot Soccer Stadiums of the MLS.


----------



## krudmonk

danVan said:


> Perhaps the thread should be retitled ot Soccer Stadiums of the MLS.


and USL/NASL


----------



## bigbossman

^^of north America then?


----------



## krudmonk

bigbossman said:


> ^^of north America then?


That's a whole lot of countries.


----------



## Bobby3

Someone take a picture of Greenland's stadium.

It's a piece of crap.


----------



## buy

*more pics of Red Bull Arena, NJ, USA.*

From http://redbullsreader.wordpress.com...etings-from-the-new-york-red-bulls/#more-5864

New pics of Red Bull Arena! South stand complete! 

Main stand










South stand










Main stand closeup










Scoreboard










Lockeroom


----------



## SIC

MegasAlexandros said:


> MLS is a mostly US based league? No kidding! But that's beside the point. If someone comes into these forums looking for info on Canadian stadiums, they would go into the "Canada, stadium development thread"... and guess what, they would find none of this relevant information. There's a reason threads are suppose to remain on topic.


Then someone post the same links in the canada stadium thread, no harm done either way. :cheers:
My main interests is MLS stadiums so I put them here, since I think MLS SSS are relevant to this discussion whether they play in Canada or the US.


----------



## krudmonk




----------



## Dexter Morgan

*HARRISON, NJ - Red Bull Arena (25,189)*


----------



## 504souldja




----------



## Alx-D

When is the earthquakes stadium going to be built?


----------



## hermsNS

^^ this stadium looks soooo crappy! why cant they make it look like the red bulls arena? why cant they close it off?


----------



## AdrianSuvalkai

^^
IMO not, in Dnipropetrovsk is one tier, here are two.


----------



## Ganis

aus16 said:


> all that does is make it look temporary ugh


how?


----------



## aus16

because the majority of metal stands are temporary in my experiences


----------



## krudmonk

ryebreadraz said:


> If you can't have the demand for an 18,000 seat stadium, you shouldn't have a team. Dallas and Colorado both have poor support, but suffer from poor stadium location above all else. If San Jose doesn't have the demand for 18,000, then why should they have a team over other cities that can have higher demand and a more feverish fan base?


Financing is the issue, not demand. In 2007, when the team was resurrected, plans were for a 22K-seat stadium to be shared with SJSU athletics. Wolff and Fisher were to finance their share by flipping a large piece of property in south San Jose that was going to be rezoned residential. The market went to shit and so did the partnership with the university (who wanted 30K to stay in D-I football), so this design is the result of ownership going alone and out-of-pocket.


----------



## kuquito

I can't wait to se the RBA in full swing!!!


----------



## Livno80101

aus16 said:


> because the majority of metal stands are temporary in my experiences


but this is not temporary, this stadium wont be hosting any major event to have temporary stands, they did this just to save money (I think so), although with this price is way too expensive, more than 180M dollars, I really dont get it why is it so expensive hno: ... for example, in Gelsenkirchen, *Arena* *AufSchalke*, Schalke's stadium has been built for cca 200M Euros, and it has 60k seats, retractable roof, retractable field - whole pitch goes out to take sun, big video cube, really huge / in Frankfurt on Main, *Commerzbank Arena* was paid 150M Euros, and it has roof all over the pitch, 50k seats)... so all this could have been done with 30-40M, in comparing to these two stadiums

Arena AufSchalke



















Commerzbank Arena


----------



## Scba

Yeah, metal stands make it pretty obvious that costs are being cut, if it's a permanent thing.


----------



## JYDA

Livno80101 said:


> but this is not temporary, this stadium wont be hosting any major event to have temporary stands, they did this just to save money (I think so), although with this price is way too expensive, more than 180M dollars, I really dont get it why is it so expensive hno: ... for example, in Gelsenkirchen, *Arena* *AufSchalke*, Schalke's stadium has been built for cca 200M Euros, and it has 60k seats, retractable roof, retractable field - whole pitch goes out to take sun, big video cube, really huge / in Frankfurt on Main, *Commerzbank Arena* was paid 150M Euros, and it has roof all over the pitch, 50k seats)... so all this could have been done with 30-40M, in comparing to these two stadiums



Cost of construction labor in New York is astronomical.


----------



## Nexis

JYDA said:


> Cost of construction labor in New York is astronomical.


Its not in New York , its next to Newark and its cheaper to build in my State , which has sparked Massive Movement form NY to NJ for New Companies or Expansion of Companies. In 20 years rose the Jersey City Skyline due to this. The area where the stadium is being built used to be an abandoned Industrial area , now its transforming into a City within a City. and the City of Harrison like Neighboring Newark is using buyouts and taking land form owners that have neglected it for too long & turning it around. But as the Region bounces back more prepare for New Jersey to turn into a Modern Oasis , and that Stadium to be the first of many European style ones built in the US

~Corey


----------



## Ganis

Cost of the Land in NY is incredibly high. But most MLS stadiums looks temporarily made because at some point we hope to build true soccer pitches like the ones you see in Europe... so we need an easy way to bring this down.


----------



## Ganis

hermsNS said:


> ^^ this stadium looks soooo crappy! why cant they make it look like the red bulls arena? why cant they close it off?


I agree. It would look so much better with it all closed in.


----------



## mattec

Ganis said:


> I agree. It would look so much better with it all closed in.


which is the overall plan; however, currently, economics don't justify closing it off.


----------



## ryebreadraz

Alx-D said:


> Because they wrote the check to buy a team. Deserve has nothing to do with anything in this league. Did the [sarcasm]awesome fan support of Columbus[/sarcasm] deserve the team they had the past two years?


Yes, but in building a stadium with almost or all private money then you are setting a bad precedent for the rest of the league and making it tougher for other teams to get public support. Also, when I reference support, I'm not just referencing support in terms of attendance. There is also the corporate support that is so important. The San Jose stadium isn't even a go and is dependent on securing sponsorship money. If the Quakes cannot get the public and corporate support, they shouldn't have a team. It's bad for the league.


----------



## SJAnfield

hermsNS said:


> ^^ this stadium looks soooo crappy! why cant they make it look like the red bulls arena? why cant they close it off?


Cause our owner is a cheap a-hole who doesn't know how to properly run a club.


----------



## krudmonk

ryebreadraz said:


> Yes, but in building a stadium with almost or all private money then you are setting a bad precedent for the rest of the league and making it tougher for other teams to get public support. Also, when I reference support, I'm not just referencing support in terms of attendance. There is also the corporate support that is so important. The San Jose stadium isn't even a go and is dependent on securing sponsorship money. If the Quakes cannot get the public and corporate support, they shouldn't have a team. It's bad for the league.


That's the economic reality in California. Philip Bullschitz was clever enough to dupe some no-name CSU campus into sharing a stadium in a metro where the NFL was not so successful (twice), but that's not the norm. Suburbs in Utah and Colorado and Texas will happily build 20K stadia; however, not the case out here. Screw their public support if we can't get any. We need a stadium and security however we can get it.


----------



## hermsNS

*SSS *means *S*occer *S*pecific* S*tadium, right? So why are they adding/building main stages? I understand that soccer isn't as profitable as football but come on... 

Piza Hut Park








Thre roof and everything, looks like thery're not dont with the construction of th 4th stand. 

Toyota Park








The Scoreboard/tv is awesome! but the stage area takes away the feeling of a sss. Without the stage it would be a perfect exapmle of a cheap sss.kay: At least the roof serves it purpose when it's raining. *cooough* *cough* Dick's Sporting Goods Park *cough*:storm:

Rio Tinto








*Rio Tinto stadium doesn't have a big main stage but it looks almost exactly like the Toyota Pk. :bash:

Every *SSS* should be unique and *SOCCER SPECIFIC*, not cocnert specific.

***Another thing that looks weird/silly (from a european point of view) is the grassy area behind the goal line. It looks like the picnic area/it is the picnic area opcorn: but for a fan who has been around cages, metal bars, police and fences, it looks silly. 


I like the idea, it is cool, it sends the message to people that soccer isn't about violence, it is about picnicking on a saturday afternoon where you can spend some time with family... but try to explain it to a fan from europe, try to tailgate in front of a stadium in Poland, for example :eat: lol

earthquakes stadium









Home Depot Center









-------------
And for all the people who think that the Earthquakes stadium looks crappy... here is a pic of the Kassam Stadium.


----------



## Bobby3

ryebreadraz said:


> Yes, but in building a stadium with almost or all private money then you are setting a bad precedent for the rest of the league and making it tougher for other teams to get public support. Also, when I reference support, I'm not just referencing support in terms of attendance. There is also the corporate support that is so important. The San Jose stadium isn't even a go and is dependent on securing sponsorship money. If the Quakes cannot get the public and corporate support, they shouldn't have a team. It's bad for the league.


The Panthers couldn't get public money and they're 8th in NFL attendance.

The burden of an urban stadium built with public funds falls squarely upon in the middle class in areas like San Jose and Charlotte, the more affluent tend to live beyond the boundaries of the city-proper for tax reasons and therefore won't be paying anything toward the stadium while they enjoy the suites that the people who paid for the stadium can't afford. The with 15 minutes left to play the main roads in the city -- which the also didn't pay for -- become clogged with suburbanites looking to "beat the traffic".

I have nothing but admiration for teams that build stadiums with their own capital. I know in the lock-step world of the American sports system we're never supposed to mention what lower division and minor league teams do in reference to what major league teams do, but if the Charleston Battery -- and I don't care that it only holds 5,200 -- can build a stadium with their money, so can any "major league" team.


----------



## Aka

hermsNS said:


> but for a fan who has been around cages, metal bars, police and fences, it looks silly.


That's what's silly to me. I don't know in which Europe do you live, but in mine I don't see cages, fences or metal bars (well, not that much). I don't want to be treated like an animal, you know?


----------



## kuquito

Ganis said:


> I agree. It would look so much better with it all closed in.


I's not the end of the world. They can easily complete it.


----------



## Ganis

There are stages because they make more money hosting concerts at these venues then home soccer games.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Also its not as if it's impossible to remove the stages. They're easy to take apart in order to add an extra stand when needed.


----------



## nyrmetros

Nexis said:


> Its not in New York , its next to Newark and its cheaper to build in my State , which has sparked Massive Movement form NY to NJ for New Companies or Expansion of Companies. In 20 years rose the Jersey City Skyline due to this. The area where the stadium is being built used to be an abandoned Industrial area , now its transforming into a City within a City. and the City of Harrison like Neighboring Newark is using buyouts and taking land form owners that have neglected it for too long & turning it around. But as the Region bounces back more prepare for New Jersey to turn into a Modern Oasis , and that Stadium to be the first of many European style ones built in the US
> 
> ~Corey


After the Sopranos get through with you, the construction costs in YOUR state are not much cheaper then building in NY. The big difference is the price of land.


----------



## MicroX

Aka said:


> That's what's silly to me. I don't know in which Europe do you live, but in mine I don't see cages, fences or metal bars (well, not that much). I don't want to be treated like an animal, you know?


several european countries have stadiums that separate the spectators from the field with fences and metal bars.


----------



## Sea Toby

buy said:


> I dont know about the rest of the US, but I can speak for NYC, where I have visited many many bars and watched football (soccer) games on television. In this city, football ranks near equally among American football and baseball in "pubs" in terms of television time. Some bars ONLY show football, and then other sports like rugby and american sports when they have time and free tv's.
> 
> I think that the original guy was right: the US has a lot of foreign football fans in its major cities and IMO having the best Euro teams come over to practice is good fun.


I would think Dallas would sell out the new Cowboys Stadium for one of the top four British vs another good European football game. Maybe those living in Liverpool would be surprised to see 80k Texans seeing Premiere League football....


----------



## nyrmetros

Sea Toby said:


> I would think Dallas would sell out the new Cowboys Stadium for one of the top four British vs another good European football game. Maybe those living in Liverpool would be surprised to see 80k Texans seeing Premiere League football....


I think only a MFL team vs Barcelona or Real Madrid would have a chance.


----------



## salaverryo

Sea Toby said:


> I would think Dallas would sell out the new Cowboys Stadium for one of the top four British vs another good European football game. Maybe those living in Liverpool would be surprised to see 80k Texans seeing Premiere League football....


You don't need European teams to sell out Cowboys Stadium. Just have the Mexican national team play their home games there. You are guaranteed a sellout every time.


----------



## massp88

salaverryo said:


> You don't need European teams to sell out Cowboys Stadium. Just have the Mexican national team play their home games there. You are guaranteed a sellout every time.


I don't think Dallas could sell out for European soccer. They had the game over the summer (not a sellout), but I am willing to bet a good portion of that crowd was there to see the new stadium.

You are right about the Mexican team, they would easily sell out.


----------



## Blackcatfan

eMKay said:


> Awesome. Almost made me cry, that's what America is all about right there.


I assume you are talking about the advert on page 1 'If you die who would take care of your family'?

In civilised countries the answer is 'the state'. That's what we pay taxes for.


----------



## eMKay

MicroX said:


> several european countries have stadiums that separate the spectators from the field with fences and metal bars.





Blackcatfan said:


> I assume you are talking about the advert on page 1 'If you die who would take care of your family'?
> 
> In civilised countries the answer is 'the state'. That's what we pay taxes for.


In civilized countries we have insurance, and we don't need to keep home and away fans separate from eachother and the field with bars and barbed wire.


----------



## nyrmetros

eMKay said:


> In civilized countries we have insurance, and we don't need to keep home and away fans separate from eachother and the field with bars and barbed wire.


I wish we had that at NYR - NYI games


----------



## danVan

philly stadium- taken from the union website:


----------



## Bobby3

eMKay said:


> In civilized countries we have insurance, and we don't need to keep home and away fans separate from eachother and the field with bars and barbed wire.


No, we segregate them in terms of whether or not they can purchase insurance.

You'll no doubt have some retort, mine will be filming a video of my application and denial to prove myself correct.

My crime? Being too tall


----------



## 1772

Bobby3 said:


> No, we segregate them in terms of whether or not they can purchase insurance.
> 
> You'll no doubt have some retort, mine will be filming a video of my application and denial to prove myself correct.
> 
> My crime? Being too tall


Just because the american insurance system is corrupt and inefficient, the answer IS NOT socialism. 

Back to topic.


----------



## Alx-D

1772 said:


> Just because the american insurance system is corrupt and inefficient, the answer IS NOT socialism.
> 
> Back to topic.


In most countries socialism is the answer, but your government is just as corrupt and inefficient as the insurance companies.


----------



## eMKay

The government can make it so insurance companies act in a more fair manner, and provide insurance for those that can't afford it. Which is what we are trying to accomplish now, a process I fully support. I do not support a complete takeover which has proven to be too expensive. Anyway, if people stop bickering, we wouldn't get off topic like this. That's all anyone does on this site, bitch, whine, insult, STFU!


----------



## eMKay

danVan said:


> philly stadium- taken from the union website:


Wow, awesome progress there!


----------



## sbutlik

Alx-D said:


> In most countries socialism is the answer, but your government is just as corrupt and inefficient as the insurance companies.


"Socialism needs democracy like the human body needs oxygen."
Leon Trotsky
Russian Soviet politician & Communist revolutionary

"Democracy is the most vile form of government... democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention: have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property: and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths."
James Madison 4th President of the U.S.


----------



## Snorky33

Looks kinda strange having a real looking European soccer stadium in the US, yes the US seems to be courting FIFA for a future SWC it will suceed it's just which one 2018 or 2022.


----------



## 1772

Snorky33 said:


> Looks kinda strange having a real looking European soccer stadium in the US, yes the US seems to be courting FIFA for a future SWC it will suceed it's just which one 2018 or 2022.


I doubt any MLS stadium will host a WC.  
But perhaps a U-20 WC?


----------



## en1044

hngcm said:


> in the middle of manhattan duh


If even the idea of building the Olympic Stadium in Manhattan was thrown around, then building a SSS there definitely seems like it would be possible.


----------



## soup or man

If you haven't seen them already, here are the uniforms for the Philadelphia Union.

Home









Away


----------



## jean1991

wow NICE, looks like an instant classic.


----------



## Dexter Morgan

hngcm said:


> in the middle of manhattan duh


LOL, yeah like that was ever an option.


----------



## Nexis

New Jersey never seems to get proper credit for anything we do, that benefits New York. Its always NYC who gets it. Theres a big difference between that area and NYC. So i think everybody or almost everybody needs to stop giving NYC credit for things that are in NJ. Everything consumed in NYC is imported through or made in NJ. Like the New York Times or Post or Tropicana which is Imported through Port Bayonne.


----------



## nyrmetros

Nexis said:


> New Jersey never seems to get proper credit for anything we do, that benefits New York. Its always NYC who gets it. Theres a big difference between that area and NYC. So i think everybody or almost everybody needs to stop giving NYC credit for things that are in NJ. Everything consumed in NYC is imported through or made in NJ. Like the New York Times or Post or Tropicana which is Imported through Port Bayonne.


NJ complex ehh ? If NJ wants more respect, expand PATH like the NYC subway system did.


----------



## 1772

The Philadelphia Union kit looks good, but how will it look with ads on the chest?


----------



## Dexter Morgan

http://www.wfan.com/Red-Bull-Arena-Update---1-18-2010/6165063*

1/18/2010*


----------



## Inferious

^^
wow thats really nice stadium. its good to see soccer specific stadiums.


----------



## Nexis

nyrmetros said:


> NJ complex ehh ? If NJ wants more respect, expand PATH like the NYC subway system did.


Were expanding the PATH to Newark in't Airport , sometime this decade , the Harrison Station , like most of the PATH stations is getting an overhaul. Were building a Light Rail network between Newark-Paterson-and that part of Hudson County.


----------



## ryebreadraz

It was announced today that the first match at Red Bull Arena won't be their March 27th season opener versus Chicago, but instead a preseason friendly on March 20th versus Santos FC of Brazil.


----------



## JYDA

ryebreadraz said:


> It was announced today that the first match at Red Bull Arena won't be their March 27th season opener versus Chicago, but instead a preseason friendly on March 20th versus Santos FC of Brazil.


I'm going waaaaaayyyyyyyy out on a limb and predicting Pele will be there.


----------



## soup or man

Any news on DC United's stadium? If ever a MLS team needed a new stadium, it would be them. And maybe the Revolution.


----------



## ryebreadraz

soup or man said:


> Any news on DC United's stadium? If ever a MLS team needed a new stadium, it would be them. And maybe the Revolution.


Nothing really new on DC, which is a shame. Of all the teams, I want them to get a stadium next. There's talk of Baltimore trying to lure them and Goff said a couple days ago that DC is looking at suburban Maryland and Virginia now.


----------



## krudmonk

Man, 9 of 14 MLS Cup trophies belong to teams still paying rent. How upside-down are we?


----------



## nyrmetros

JYDA said:


> I'm going waaaaaayyyyyyyy out on a limb and predicting Pele will be there.


plus +1


----------



## nyrmetros

Dexter Morgan said:


> http://www.wfan.com/Red-Bull-Arena-Update---1-18-2010/6165063*
> 
> 1/18/2010*



I may hate the current name of the team and the current club badge, but damn we got one nice stadium.


----------



## Mordaunt-S

Total rip-off from Klagenfurt stadium .


----------



## Scba

I'm still uncomfortable with having FC names in a league with Soccer in its name. I mean, I completely understand what they're going for, but something seems silly.


----------



## krudmonk

Singling out "Real" over "FC" and "United" is stupid. They're all wannabe names.


----------



## koolio

Why? As people have already mentioned, "Real" is not something that you can just name yourself. It is awarded by the Spanish monarchy. If, for example, Real Betis decided to name themselves that when they were formed, they would have been forced to take the title off right away. There is no such provision attached with "FC". Although United is indeed very wannabe as well since the term "United" traditionally implies the merger of two clubs.


----------



## 1772

JYDA said:


> ...If Montreal was a purely anglo city that had never hosted the olympics then Olympique Montreal would be horrific as well.


Olympique has nothing to do with the Olympics. 
The french word olympique in a club name is another word for sport. 
So if Quebec or Montreal (or even New Orleans) added Olympique, it would make perfect sense. 

But not Real. That is stupid...


----------



## ryebreadraz

Back to stadium news, Houston now has a second option. While they sit around waiting for $10 million to finalize plans for their downtown stadium, a private entity has stepped up and proposed a stadium for the Dynamo.



> The Houston Dynamo is considering a pitch to build a soccer stadium on private land near the Galleria.
> 
> The team has not abandoned plans to build downtown on city-owned land east of U.S. 59, president Oliver Luck said Wednesday.
> 
> But he confirmed that he has met several times with representatives of Midway Cos., the Houston-based developer of City Centre mall.
> 
> “They have not yet presented a full-blown plan to us,” Luck said. “It's an interesting location and certainly worth looking at.”
> 
> The Dynamo and the city have a deal in which the team would pay $60 million in stadium construction costs on 12 acres of land the city bought for $15 million. The city also has pledged $10 million in redevelopment money to fund infrastructure, such as sewer lines, lighting and other work on the area around the stadium.
> 
> But the third leg of the stool under former Mayor Bill White's plan — a $10 million commitment from Harris County — has not materialized 19 months after White presented it in a letter to County Judge Ed Emmett.
> 
> By the end of 2008, Luck already was saying that if no accord was reached soon, he would have to go to a plan B.
> 
> Little has happened since the summer as the players in the deal watched White's term expire and a successor elected.
> 
> “The deal downtown started stalling a little bit. We started wondering if that stadium could make sense at this property,” said Brad Freels, chairman and CEO of Midway.
> 
> Freels envisions a 21,000-seat soccer and concert arena as part of a multi-use project on 30 acres the company owns at the intersection of Westpark Toll Road and South Rice. The property is just west of the 610 Loop, about a mile south of the Galleria.
> 
> Mayor Annise Parker said she has been briefed on the plan.
> 
> “It is a completely privately financed alternative, which I'm glad to see on the table,” she said. “This is an excellent option that takes the city taxpayers largely or completely out of the loop on this.”
> 
> Parker noted that the city would consider contributing infrastructure work or tax abatements to the Midway development, just as it would any other large project.
> 
> Should the Dynamo end up near the Galleria, the city will consider many options for the use of its 12 acres downtown.
> 
> “The public is aware that we're looking at potential sites for an independent crime lab operation. We're looking for potential sites for a joint city-county (inmate) processing facility,” Parker said.
> 
> Part of the downtown site would be in the precinct of Commissioner Sylvia Garcia, a former season ticketholder. She said she does not prefer either site over the other.
> 
> “Dynamo owes it to the fans, myself included, to explore all of the options,” Garcia said. “I think it's important that they get a stadium and that they stay in Houston. I think this alternative accomplishes both of those goals.”
> 
> Precinct 1 Commissioner El Franco Lee, who also represents a portion of the downtown Dynamo site, declined to comment Wednesday.
> 
> Luck and Freels emphasized that the Galleria-area plan is preliminary. Both said the details of who would pay what to build the stadium have yet to be worked out.
> 
> But, Freels said, “I'm a person that would like to do things through the private sector instead of the public sector.”


While not technically downtown, the stadium is right next to downtown and I've been told by people in Houston that it's just as accessible.


----------



## Bobby3

koolio said:


> Why? As people have already mentioned, "Real" is not something that you can just name yourself. It is awarded by the Spanish monarchy. If, for example, Real Betis decided to name themselves that when they were formed, they would have been forced to take the title off right away. There is no such provision attached with "FC". Although United is indeed very wannabe as well since the term "United" traditionally implies the merger of two clubs.


Traditionally, yes. But as far as I know, only one of the major "Uniteds" is actually a merger: Newcastle United was a merger of Newcastle East End and Newcastle West End.

Man Utd just thought it sounded cool, they used to be called Newton Heath. West Ham is a relaunched Thames Ironworks, and Dundee Utd was Dundee Hibernian -- though I guess if you wanted to argue, you could say the ashes of Dundee Harp were united to the new club.

DC has as much right to it as Man Utd.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Bobby3 said:


> Traditionally, yes. But as far as I know, only one of the major "Uniteds" is actually a merger: Newcastle United was a merger of Newcastle East End and Newcastle West End.
> 
> Man Utd just thought it sounded cool, they used to be called Newton Heath. West Ham is a relaunched Thames Ironworks, and Dundee Utd was Dundee Hibernian -- though I guess if you wanted to argue, you could say the ashes of Dundee Harp were united to the new club.
> 
> DC has as much right to it as Man Utd.


the DC moniker was supposed to incorporate the "United States" into the title since they're the team for the US capital. Although why they chose a shield that looks like an authoritarian symbol is slightly ironic to me...


----------



## soup or man

^ Hitler would approve of the DC United.


----------



## GunnerJacket

soup or man said:


> ^ Hitler would approve of the DC United.


Let's be cautious, folks. Even if a comment doesn't fully cross a line doesn't mean you should still go there.

DC United's logo was a compromise between having US symbology but also not being too obvious or bland about it, especially since they either knew or wisely surmised the NE Revolution would also be featuring a red-white-blue combination. Much like we on SSC sometimes forget stadium logistics can lead to common default forms, there are some limiting factors to incorporating those colors and an eagle into a simple badge. Most importantly, I think the club has done well to make it work that I think we should be mature enough to get over this.

Sorry but this one's a pet peeve of mine.

Cheers. :cheers:


----------



## Inferious

i think united states should make their own type of style of how they're naming new teams. It would be better then just taking examples from Europe. I mean Real Salt Lake sounds ridiculous or D.C. United. LA Galaxy or Seattle Sounders sound like good names.


----------



## Mr. Fitz

Fake Salt Lake?


----------



## Bobby3

I actually prefer "FC" or "AFC" because it forces attention to the locale rather than the "brand".


----------



## buy

> Even if you want to pretend your club is blessed with royalty at least make it Royal Salt Lake or Salt Lake Royals. If Houston was named Dinamo Houston or Dallas was named Club Deportivo Dallas I would be equally disgusted. If Montreal was a purely anglo city that had never hosted the olympics then Olympique Montreal would be horrific as well.


I agree with this. I think that the name should depend on the characteristic of the city. For New Orleans or Montreal or another historically francophone town, why not name it Olympique?

For more anglo-american cities, FC or Utd is just fine right? Nothing too over the top about them (even if FC=football club and Americans say soccer, its still somewhat acceptable). 

Personally I think RSL is terrible because, to my knowledge, Salt Lake City is not a predominantly hispanic city. Perhaps the Real tag would better suit Santa Fe or San Antonio. 

More American names like Galaxy and Sounders and Wizards is fine too since that style of name is one that other American sports teams choose (NBA, NFL, the list goes on).


----------



## MegasAlexandros

I don't like going off topic, but since it has already been extensively discussed, I felt that I had to weigh-in on the subject of the naming of Montreal's imminent entry into MLS. It boils down to 2 things as I see it.

1) The IOC now has exclusive rights to any new entity wanting to use the word Olympic/Olympique in it's name. Names that already existed were exempt (i.e. Olympique Lyonnais, Olympique Marseille, etc.) but any new team, company, or organization would need to shell out very big bucks to earn the right to use the name.

2) As much as some of you might not like the name, the Montreal Impact are about to begin their 17th season of play. For those who are counting, that's longer than the MLS has been around. You simply can't go and erase all of that history just because the name doesn't sound cool or you prefer Olympique Montreal. People in Montreal identify with them now... if you ask someone "What's the name of Montreal's pro soccer team?" they will answer "the Impact". The brand is now well established and I think it would be foolish to simply swipe that under the rug. The same came be said for the Sounders, Whitecaps and Timbers, and good on them for preserving their historic names.

So get used to it people, the Montreal IMPACT will be joining MLS in a year or two.


----------



## buy

^^^^ well argued sir. 

On a side note, I just purchased the 2 game pack for the Red Bulls. I'll be seeing Santos v RBNY and Chicago v RBNY on March 20th & 27th respectively. 

Anyone else going? 
Im bringing the nikon DSLR to get stadium shots!!!!!


----------



## JYDA

buy said:


> ^^^^ well argued sir.
> 
> On a side note, I just purchased the 2 game pack for the Red Bulls. I'll be seeing Santos v RBNY and Chicago v RBNY on March 20th & 27th respectively.
> 
> Anyone else going?
> Im bringing the nikon DSLR to get stadium shots!!!!!


Maybe Robinho will be there


----------



## ryebreadraz

buy said:


> ^^^^ well argued sir.
> 
> On a side note, I just purchased the 2 game pack for the Red Bulls. I'll be seeing Santos v RBNY and Chicago v RBNY on March 20th & 27th respectively.
> 
> Anyone else going?
> Im bringing the nikon DSLR to get stadium shots!!!!!


I'm guessing that the US team will play one of their May pre-World Cup friendlies at Red Bull Arena so if they do, I may go out there for that.


----------



## nyrmetros

buy said:


> ^^^^ well argued sir.
> 
> On a side note, I just purchased the 2 game pack for the Red Bulls. I'll be seeing Santos v RBNY and Chicago v RBNY on March 20th & 27th respectively.
> 
> Anyone else going?
> Im bringing the nikon DSLR to get stadium shots!!!!!


I'll be there.


----------



## metros11

buy said:


> Anyone else going?
> Im bringing the nikon DSLR to get stadium shots!!!!!


I have season tickets and plan on bringing my Sony DSLR. However, for the first game I'll probably be in 101 with the ESC, so I'll be too busy to take pictures.


----------



## SIC

I'll be in the away section. :cheers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glH7UL-hYvw


----------



## 1772

soup or man said:


> ^ Hitler would approve of the DC United.


hno:


----------



## sbutlik

soup or man said:


> ^ Hitler would approve of the DC United.


so would I.


----------



## vony91

Planning on catching some of the redbulls games, not sure which ones yet.


----------



## sbutlik

*Union Stadium Render*










http://blogs.thescore.com/footyblog/


----------



## nyrmetros

sbutlik said:


> http://blogs.thescore.com/footyblog/


Shame the place won't have a full roof.


----------



## boyerling3

Is Union Stadium every in much danger of being flooded due to the proximity to the river?


----------



## ryebreadraz

boyerling3 said:


> Is Union Stadium every in much danger of being flooded due to the proximity to the river?


I asked this to a Union fan a while back and he said no, but I can't remember the reason why not. He said it's what the club president/chairman/something of that sort said though so a credible source.


----------



## hngcm

can't believe it went from great to crap so quickly


----------



## ryebreadraz

PGE Park in Portland gets final approval:


> *City approves PGE Park renovation plan*
> 
> The Portland City Council on Wednesday approved a plan to renovate PGE Park for the 2011 arrival of Major League Soccer.
> 
> The council voted 4-1 to back the $31 million plan. The approval means renovations can be made for the Portland Timbers Major League Soccer franchise to begin play next year.
> 
> “This is a great day for Portland and a great day for soccer,” Timbers owner Merritt Paulson said in a statement. “I thank our fans for their support and the city council for its leadership. Now, we look forward to showing the rest of the country why we are Soccer City USA.”
> 
> The Timbers immediately announced they’re accepting season ticket deposits.
> 
> Paulson’s statement did not address the future of the Portland Beavers Triple-A baseball team, which will be displaced by the stadium’s renovations into a soccer- and football-only facility. He said during Jan. 27 testimony that he wants to keep the Beavers “in Portland or the Portland-area for years to come.”
> 
> The Beavers will play at PGE Park in 2010 and vacate the stadium at the end of the season.
> 
> Paulson said the project “will put people back to work at a time when jobs are needed most.”
> 
> The facility will also host scores of high school sports and community events yearly, Paulson said.
> 
> The ticket plan will give priority access to 2010 Timbers full-season ticket holders. Those not purchasing 2010 season tickets can pay a $50 seat deposit and receive priority over other purchasers.


----------



## Topher51

Now why is it that we get hammered for not putting roofs on our stadiums like the Euros, but apparently naming our teams like them is sacrilege? 

By the way, North America is one of the most culturally diverse areas in the world. If one day an MLS team in an area with a large Hispanic population decided to adopt a Spanish name, what is the big deal? The former Quebec NHL team were the Nordiques, which is a French word meaning "Northmen." No one seemed to mind that. That and there several teams with cultural based names. For example, Boston has the Celtics b/c of the large Irish population and New York has the Knickerbockers b/c of it’s early Dutch heritage. Bring on the San Antonio Lobos, Toros or Matadors!


----------



## GunnerJacket

Topher51 said:


> Now why is it that we get hammered for not putting roofs on our stadiums like the Euros, but apparently naming our teams like them is sacrilege?


I suspect it's really a small minority that are so zealous in the roof issue but the line of thinking goes something like this: Proper football venues should involve the roof as both a high standard of comfort and supposed sound amplifier (which at times is untrue, but anyway), and this applies to any culture. Nicknames, however, are supposed to be indicative of individual communities or at least not appear like simply copying another organization. 

I agree to a large degree on the latter part, as it's far easier to be original with the name than with a stadium design. But yeah, there are some overly aggressive opinions on the matter. (Behold the power of the inter-web!! :banana: )


----------



## buy

> can't believe it went from great to crap so quickly


i agree. why is there no 2nd tier? so basic..


----------



## metros11

buy said:


> i agree. why is there no 2nd tier? so basic..


If there was need for 2nd tier there would be one.


----------



## jean1991

Topher51 said:


> Now why is it that we get hammered for not putting roofs on our stadiums like the Euros, but apparently naming our teams like them is sacrilege?
> 
> By the way, North America is one of the most culturally diverse areas in the world. If one day an MLS team in an area with a large Hispanic population decided to adopt a Spanish name, what is the big deal? The former Quebec NHL team were the Nordiques, which is a French word meaning "Northmen." No one seemed to mind that. That and there several teams with cultural based names. For example, Boston has the Celtics b/c of the large Irish population and New York has the Knickerbockers b/c of it’s early Dutch heritage. Bring on the San Antonio Lobos, Toros or Matadors!


Quebec's official language is French, so Nordiques actually makes a lot of sense.


----------



## hngcm

And they're in the north!


----------



## danVan

metros11 said:


> If there was need for 2nd tier there would be one.


And when there is a need there will be one


----------



## ryebreadraz

danVan said:


> And when there is a need there will be one


Besides the cost, the biggest reason they eschewed the complete roof is because it would make expansion much more difficult. They already have plans for multiple expansions when demand requires it and a full roof to go with it.


----------



## nyrmetros

MLS should require all new stadiums and existing SSS have a full roff. haha


----------



## nomarandlee

nyrmetros said:


> Shame the place won't have a full roof.


 I agree. However I am not sure if it done out of frugality. I think there ia a rationale by some teams that many American sports fans in the middle of summer like to bake out in the sun for a weekend game. I think there is a certainly element to this with day baseball as well. In many of today's baseball stadiums there seems to be enough shade cover for those that want to sit in shade but leave lots of seats that will be left to sunshine. The soccer games here are much more of a family affair then I think they are in oversees so you have to account for families. Not providing shade from the sun probably isn't the healthiest thing in the end but the reality is that many women especially love to soak in it during the summer.


----------



## SIC

nomarandlee said:


> I agree. However I am not sure if it done out of frugality. I think there ia a rationale by some teams that many American sports fans in the middle of summer like to bake out in the sun for a weekend game. I think there is a certainly element to this with day baseball as well. In many of today's baseball stadiums there seems to be enough shade cover for those that want to sit in shade but leave lots of seats that will be left to sunshine. The soccer games here are much more of a family affair then I think they are in oversees so you have to account for families. Not providing shade from the sun probably isn't the healthiest thing in the end but the reality is that many women especially love to soak in it during the summer.


Perhaps, but a lot of the games are at night. Frankly, last year was one of the wettest summers in the states and only one game was played in the rain in Chicago. It's not like the european winter where it rains all day or even hours at a time. Summer storms are usually pretty short-lived.
But it's also a bit myopic for people to act like European stadiums have had full roofs over every stadium since the beginning of time. That was something that developed as leagues and teams became richer and fans more affluent.


----------



## nomarandlee

zezin said:


> that good, that Americans are expanding the most popular sport in the world. soccer, it would be nice if the league give an open door for the liberators here in South America.


say wha?! :lol:


----------



## en1044

Its always annoying to hear people talk down to Americans. Whether or not you meant bad by it or not, its annoying.

For further reference:

We know its the most popular sport in the world.
We know that a good portion of the world calls it football.
We know that a lot of you dont like American football.


So in the future, leave that stuff out of your posts. Its annoying.


----------



## Dexter Morgan

zezin said:


> that good, that Americans are expanding the most popular sport in the world. soccer, it would be nice if the league give an open door for the liberators here in South America.


Well it's not the most popular sport in the US, not even top 4.


----------



## Bobby3

nomarandlee said:


> say wha?! :lol:


The Copa Libretadores de America (The Liberators of America Cup), it's South America's Champions League.


----------



## JYDA

I wouldn't rule it out. The Libertadores isn't rich like the UEFA Champions League. They can't be as picky and have to get revenue whereever they can get it. This means selling the naming rights to the tournament and caving in to Mexico and their sponsors after the swine flu incident. If CONMEBOL sees a way to pump more money into the tournament through MLS inclusion then they will consider it.


----------



## buy

Red Bull Arena will host an international friendly between Czech Republic and Turkey on May 22. I'm going to get tickets when they go on sale on Feb. 26. 

http://redbulls.theoffside.com/red-...ational-friendly-czech-republic-v-turkey.html



> Red Bull Arena’s First International Friendly: Czech Republic v. Turkey
> By: Dave Martinez | February 19th, 2010
> 
> 
> Red Bull have announced their first international friendly match at Red Bull Arena, scheduled Saturday, May 22nd. The featured contest? Petr Cech and his Czech Republic (named after him of course) take on the team that crushed their Euro 2008 dreams; Turkey.
> From the RBNY presser:
> “We continue our commitment to bring top-caliber soccer matches to Red Bull Arena,” Red Bull New York managing director Erik Stover said in a statement. “It’s a great opportunity for us to host two top quality teams and for new people to see and experience Red Bull Arena.”
> Check out the entire release at Big Apple Soccer.
> The Czech Republic will be sporting their first team against Turkey, “seeking revenge” for their past loss, according to their coach, Vladimir Smicer. Sounds like it will be a bit more than a friendly.
> Tickets will be going on sale February 24th.
> What do you think of the first international game at Red Bull Arena? Sure, it isn’t the USMNT, or the USWNT, but they will have some world class athletes on display for sure, and the bad blood will make for some great footy. Share your thoughts with us.
> .
> Tweet tweet tweet. All day long.
> www.twitter.com/DAVEREDBULLS


----------



## Nexis

The problem is the area surrounding it isn't exactly ready due the recession so it would be another black eye to my states image. Although on a plus side , they have been redoing the Ironbound over the past year.


----------



## hngcm

buy said:


> Red Bull Arena will host an international friendly between Czech Republic and Turkey on May 22. I'm going to get tickets when they go on sale on Feb. 26.
> 
> http://redbulls.theoffside.com/red-...ational-friendly-czech-republic-v-turkey.html


Seems kinda odd for those two teams to play in RBA...

Is there a large enough Czech/Turkish population to attend the game?


----------



## 1772

To have the MLS in the Copa Libertadores is a nice thought, but we're talking enormous distances. I mean, the Seattle Sounders going to a game in the south of Argentine? I don't know...




en1044 said:


> Its always annoying to hear people talk down to Americans. Whether or not you meant bad by it or not, its annoying.
> 
> For further reference:
> 
> We know its the most popular sport in the world.
> We know that a good portion of the world calls it football.
> We know that a lot of you dont like American football.
> 
> 
> So in the future, leave that stuff out of your posts. Its annoying.


Why, you almost sound patriotic there! 
Whatch out, someone might take you for a republican... :lol:


----------



## krudmonk

1772 said:


> To have the MLS in the Copa Libertadores is a nice thought, but we're talking enormous distances. I mean, the Seattle Sounders going to a game in the south of Argentine? I don't know...


Asian clubs do it and they're not all financially robust.


----------



## MicroX

zezin said:


> that good, that Americans are expanding the most popular sport in the world. soccer, it would be nice if the league give an open door for the liberators here in South America.


More than 90% of South America would be infuriated at this move. I know loads of people that already despise Mexicans playing in Libertadores; inviting Americans will make things worse. Thanks to this move, this year, there were 5 Mexican sides competing at one point. So inviting American sides to the Libertadores could create some major dilemma in the future like with the Mexicans and the swine flu.

Also, in the past, American teams have not participated in South American competitions because of MLS scheduling conflicts.

I think it would be best just to let each team play in their own confederation.


----------



## krudmonk

MicroX said:


> Also, in the past, American teams have not participated in South American competitions because of MLS scheduling conflicts.


Is this a reference to playing in the northern hemisphere's summer? Brazil does the same thing, don't they?


----------



## jean1991

N.A teams playing in the Libertadores is about the most s***** thing ever, it's like if there were African teams playing in the UEFA Champions League...


----------



## hngcm

"Copa Libertadores de América"

They should change it to South America if they're not including all of America.


----------



## JYDA

jean1991 said:


> N.A teams playing in the Libertadores is about the most s***** thing ever, it's like if there were African teams playing in the UEFA Champions League...


Mexican teams already compete in Libertadores. It should also be noted that DC United already participated in the Copa Sudamericana twice in 2005 and 2007. 

Considering the preliminary round and half of the Libertadores group stage happens before the beginning of the MLS season it's not that big of a deal in terms of travel with no weekend league commitments to juggle. It all assumes they can start pre-season a lot earlier to be ready but that's a whole other issue.


----------



## Bobby3

hngcm said:


> "Copa Libertadores de América"
> 
> They should change it to South America if they're not including all of America.


The name is a tribute, not a geographic description.


----------



## krudmonk

jean1991 said:


> N.A teams playing in the Libertadores is about the most s***** thing ever, it's like if there were African teams playing in the UEFA Champions League...


The Americas should be a merged confederation anyway. CONMEBOL has ten nations. What a joke.


----------



## MicroX

krudmonk said:


> Is this a reference to playing in the northern hemisphere's summer? Brazil does the same thing, don't they?


Actually, I think it was for Copa Americas where the national team refused to play because of "MLS scheduling conflicts" and last time they were invited they accepted the invitation but sent a reserve team shortly after winning the Gold Cup.

I do remember that DC United played twice in the Sudamericana (I was upset the way they were eliminated early on in both editions). I also recall some American clubs competing in Merconorte years ago.

Merging the two confederations would create a club competition as big as the UEFA Champions League and a WC Qualifiers as big as the European WC Qualifiers. I've debated this issue with other people (from S.A.) in the past and they didn't think the idea was so bad.



JYDA said:


> Considering the preliminary round and half of the Libertadores group stage happens before the beginning of the MLS season it's not that big of a deal in terms of travel with no weekend league commitments to juggle. It all assumes they can start pre-season a lot earlier to be ready but that's a whole other issue.


Good point. I guess it would be possible for American clubs to play in the Libertadores since there is no scheduling conflict. The only way I see this happening is if they deduct 1 berth from Mexico (they have 3, 1 in the first round and 2 in the group stage) and giving it to an American club.


----------



## Kapow32

it would be cool to have the champions of copa libertadores and concacaf champions league play for some kind of "America's Cup"


----------



## koolio

Kapow32 said:


> it would be cool to have the champions of copa libertadores and concacaf champions league play for some kind of "America's Cup"


Why do you want to watch two football teams compete in sailing?


----------



## GunnerJacket

kerouac1848 said:


> God, that's tiny given the huge size of the catchment area. The name blows big time and the team is playing poorly, but are there any other reasons?


It's not like there's a waiting list for tickets at the moment, and regrettably the franchise has already been rebranded during their short history, meaning there's little to endear the fans to this team apart from it being the default home team. Many NYC footie fans wish for a rebirth of the Cosmos, many others want anything other than _Corp Brand X - NY Franchise_. Still others are simply worn out from the mismanagement the team has seen. 

I've no doubt they'll have some sell-outs and someday will make use of the full stadium on a regular basis, but based on season ticket sales to date the above facts plus the economy suggests to me the avg might be closer to 15k than to 20k. We'll see, though.


----------



## koolio

Even though the Red Bulls are shite, I am quite envious of that beauty of a stadium ... also a good treat for the 200 or so fans who stuck with that shitty team in that shitty stadium with field turf for such a long time ... they deserved the best and finally they are getting it ... just gotta compose a good team now and the transformation will be complete. I wonder whether they should sign a big name designated player right now or wait a few years when the novelty factor of a new stadium off out in order to rejuvenate interest.


----------



## metros11

Before I reply let me just be very clear that I am a die hard supporter of the US National team. I traveled to Germany in 2006 to witness the disaster, and I always attend as many US games as possible. With that said...



bigbossman said:


> Lets put it this way, I believe Chile and Paraguay are far superior to you, anyway that is all opinion. I agree that you guys have heavily benefitted from FIFA trying to get you good at the game (China hasn't) in terms of bringing people to the sport. And I do believe that eventually after a few years of being put in your place, you'll adapt and grow, just like as European football grew many of the also ran nations (the netherlands until the 1960s) developed.


I'm not sure that we've benefitted from FIFA. To be quite honest, I feel it's been the opposite. In 2006 prior to the World Cup we were ranked 5th in the world by FIFA rankings. Now, you and I both know those are a joke, but your average American sports fan does not. When the World Cup rolls around they turn on the TV and see that US is ranked 5th in the world and so they set their expectations accordingly. Then when we lose to Czech Republic and Ghana we somehow 'blew it'. Of course the reality is very different. There is no way, shape or form that we should have been ranked that high.



bigbossman said:


> *However continually qualifying for the world cup is doing you as much harm as good. This is because you are never forced to evaluate your set up until it's too late, not acheiving intermediate goals causes evaluation of football in established countries.* For instance the poor performing national teams of France (in the late 1980s/early 90s) and Germany (in the early 2000s) forced them to change their set ups and now they have re-emerged. *The USA's intermediate goal is to qualify for the world cup and there is no way you won't do it. You need to miss a world cup for things to change* and that's why merging with CONEMBOL would benefit you imho...


Bolded for truth. Totally agree on those points.



bigbossman said:


> *For me your problem is you have no identity to your football, no coaching ideology. Your football isn't set up to create players, clubs have no incentive to be intesive with their academies and bring through players because they get lost to the draft, college and abroad* (I hope FIFA one day increase the international transfer age to 21!!). I dunno what Branderton is like but I'd assume it's all american coaches, and if it is that's your problem because no country has grown in football without a huge coaching injection from an established nation. In america it all seems too fragmented and bitty or too English in approach.


Can't argue with that.



bigbossman said:


> Basically you can't be afraid to ask for help, look at your gymnasts I read somewhere you were also rans until you started employing Russian coaches to get the best out of your talent. Wealth doesn't buy you good coaches unfortunately, but wealth buys you better ones than you have got. You obviously have growth potential, but don't go thinking because you have a huge population and wealth that if suddenly the sport grew in profile you'd be automatically good. It's about directing that wealth into your football set up and employing the right adminstration and coaches with the right strategy to not just develop the sport but the quality of your team.


I agree to a point. If popularity of the game were to rise then quality would improve, and the reason for that is because currently our best athletes are choosing other sports. I'm not saying it would make us world champions, but it would certainly make us better.

Sorry for going off topic, but his post was so good I felt compelled to respond.


----------



## 1772

bigbossman said:


> ^^ Do you even watch football? Small teams beat big teams all the time, USA beating Spain was akin to Burnley beating Manchester United earlier this season a fluke, if that game was played another 10 times USA would've got the hammering Spain's dominance deserved.
> 
> and even so it was a friendly tournament in which the USA lost more than 50% of their games, 3 defeats from 5 games is not an impressive record whichever way you look at it.


I watch football, though not the french kiddieball called Arsenal, I suppose that's where our views differ. 

You can bring up every statistic you like and blame whatever (does every Arsie do that just because Arsene Wenger does it?). 
Bottom line; the US got to the finals by beating Spain and had the lead against Brazil. 

My bet is that the US will go alot further than England.


----------



## metros11

GunnerJacket said:


> Off hand I'd say in the high teens, pending the performance of the side. Ticket sales have been behind when compared to, say Philly, but strong enough to suspect they'll certainly be above the 12-14k mark. Fans on the boards are hoping a few early sell-outs/near sell-outs might create enough atmosphere to inspire more folks to return more often, but the club hasn't exactly lit the league on fire the past few seasons, one god cup run aside.
> 
> I don't know whether to support them for the good of the game or hope for continued struggles since I can't stand the blatant corporate franchise identity. :bash:


I don't like the corporate branding either. But I have been a season ticket holder since I've had a steady job, and a name change wasn't going to change that. Like you said, I support them for the good of the game, specifically for the good of MLS.


----------



## metros11

1772 said:


> My bet is that the US will go alot further than England.


I wouldn't make that bet. In soccer everything is possible, but realistically England is the better side. If they played each other 10 times they would win 9 out of 10.


----------



## Livno80101

metros11 said:


> I wouldn't make that bet. In soccer everything is possible, but realistically England is the better side. If they played each other 10 times they would win 9 out of 10.


I am quite convinced that team USA will beat England in WC match (last Cup played outside Europe we were in quarters, on Conf Cup last year we lost in Final, while in Cups held in Europe we always failed to reach knock out round)... and I am unsure about England chances in forthcoming Cup, as there are many problems between players, Terry, Bridge, A Cole... crazy idiots:lol:


----------



## Alx-D

metros11 said:


> I wouldn't make that bet. In soccer everything is possible, but realistically England is the better side. If they played each other 10 times they would win 9 out of 10.


I'd say 7 outta 10. England would win for sure but it wouldn't be that lop sided.


----------



## massp88

1772 said:


> I watch football, though not the french kiddieball called Arsenal, I suppose that's where our views differ.
> 
> You can bring up every statistic you like and blame whatever (does every Arsie do that just because Arsene Wenger does it?).
> Bottom line; the US got to the finals by beating Spain and had the lead against Brazil.
> 
> My bet is that the US will go alot further than England.


England will probably beat us. They have world class players at every position. Whether it's Rooney, Gerard, Lampard, Terry, etc. The U.S. has Dempsey, Howard and Donovan.


----------



## krudmonk

World-class or world-famous? All Englishmen play in the world's most popular league. You know their names. Of course they all seem daunting.


----------



## JerseyFKY

TwitPic


----------



## Archbishop

Oh my Lord RBA looks amazing. Hopefully I can make it to a game up there.


----------



## MicroX

South American football nations aren't all that great at the same time. Currently, the best teams are Brazil, Chile and Paraguay. Argentina is at an astonishing low and they made it to the World Cup. The US would stand a good chance in a CONCACAF-CONMEBOL qualifier (and most likely qualify), considering they would probably (if the qualifiers would be divided into groups like in UEFA) be in a group with 1 South American team and the rest CONCACAF teams.

Finally, Argentina's poor performance and Dunga's new Brazil has demonstrated that soccer is about *teamwork*, not individual players. Hence, why I believe US beat Spain.



bigbossman said:


> However continually qualifying for the world cup is doing you as much harm as good. This is because you are never forced to evaluate your set up until it's too late, not acheiving intermediate goals causes evaluation of football in established countries. For instance the poor performing national teams of France (in the late 1980s/early 90s) and Germany (in the early 2000s) forced them to change their set ups and now they have re-emerged. The USA's intermediate goal is to qualify for the world cup and there is no way you won't do it. You need to miss a world cup for things to change and that's why merging with CONEMBOL would benefit you imho...
> 
> For me your problem is you have no identity to your football, no coaching ideology. Your football isn't set up to create players, clubs have no incentive to be intesive with their academies and bring through players because they get lost to the draft, college and abroad (I hope FIFA one day increase the international transfer age to 21!!). I dunno what Branderton is like but I'd assume it's all american coaches, and if it is that's your problem because no country has grown in football without a huge coaching injection from an established nation. In america it all seems too fragmented and bitty or too English in approach.


I see flawed logic. All of this → "you have no identity to your football, no coaching ideology. Your football isn't set up to create players, clubs have no incentive to be intesive with their academies" will not be fixed if the US misses a WC or a few WCs. Missing a WC won't FORCE anyone to re-evaluate their set-up. How do I know? Because of Peru. You have practically described Peruvian soccer. Except, they haven't been to a WC since '82. Everyone knows why Peru fails to make it to a WC but no one takes the initiative to change the set-up. The last 3 World Cup misses were frustrating for Peruvians but it still doesn't "force" anyone to want to change. The soccer officials enjoy their little "intermediate goals" of qualifying to the WC (even though they always fail). It's 2010 and I don't see Peru in Brazil 2014 or 2018.

Sorry about the offtopic, I just had to get that out.

Oh and the RBA is looking great. One of the best soccer-specific stadiums I have seen.


----------



## Nexis

Can we rename the New York Red Bulls , the New Jersey Red Bull's it makes sense , otherwise drop the name. Becuz its not fair , you play in NJ , you must change your name to NJ or drop the name like the Jets and Gaints did.


----------



## nyrmetros

JerseyFKY said:


> TwitPic


just wow


----------



## nyrmetros

Nexis said:


> you must change your name to NJ or drop the name like the Jets and Gaints did.


ummm.... HUHWHAT ??


----------



## Nexis

nyrmetros said:


> ummm.... HUHWHAT ??


I'm tired of NY Teams playing here , and not giving any credit to Jersey. So they should change the name to New Jersey or Jersey or Drop the "New York" part of the name. Infact i'm going to ask my local political friend to consider making a bill that would do that.


----------



## koolio

Nexis said:


> I'm tired of NY Teams playing here , and not giving any credit to Jersey. So they should change the name to New Jersey or Jersey or Drop the "New York" part of the name. Infact i'm going to ask my local political friend to consider making a bill that would do that.


When did the Giants and the Jets drop New York from their names?


----------



## MicroX

Didn't they used to call the Metrostars NY/NJ?


----------



## nyrmetros

MicroX said:


> Didn't they used to call the Metrostars NY/NJ?


yes during their first 2 years of operation.


----------



## sbutlik

*New York Red Bulls Press Conference*



























http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/AME_wmODMSa/New+York+Red+Bulls+Press+Conference


----------



## massp88

This place has a nice European feel to it and that's a good thing. This looks like it will be the best MLS stadium by far.


----------



## GunnerJacket

massp88 said:


> This place has a nice European feel to it and that's a good thing. This looks like it will be the best MLS stadium by far.


That is, if MLS games are actually played in it this year. hno: :bash:


----------



## JYDA

Anyone else notice how the supposedly transluscent roof isn't really transluscent at all? 

Transluscent roofs create shadows like this


----------



## Benn

The inner portion is translucent, the three examples you give have transparent inner rings.


----------



## Steel City Suburb

I really do like it though as a US Soccer stadium.

Very neat, compact, enclosed and the angle of the tiers look steep.


----------



## Nexis

Now the Newark Metro has 3 Stadiums / Arenas within a mile of each other.


----------



## dl3000

Yeah, Newark is like Philly's sports complex but for the New York metro area. Funny how New York keeps its ballparks but all other sports are outside City limits. Undoubtedly it was because the ballparks were built at a time when land was cheaper.


----------



## krudmonk

dl3000 said:


> Yeah, Newark is like Philly's sports complex but for the New York metro area. Funny how New York keeps its ballparks but all other sports are outside City limits. Undoubtedly it was because the ballparks were built at a time when land was cheaper.


The arena is in downtown Newark and houses the "New Jersey" teams. I think the Nets will be there temporarilly between Izod and Barclay's.


----------



## Dexter Morgan

Nexis said:


> Now the Newark Metro has 3 Stadiums / Arenas within a mile of each other.


Red Bull Arena, Prudential Center, what's the 3rd? Riverfront Stadium?


----------



## Dexter Morgan

dl3000 said:


> Yeah, Newark is like Philly's sports complex but for the New York metro area. Funny how New York keeps its ballparks but all other sports are outside City limits. Undoubtedly it was because the ballparks were built at a time when land was cheaper.


Both of New York's ballparks are 1 year old.

Yankees, Mets, Rangers, Knicks, and Liberty all play in NYC. The Nets will also be playing in NYC, and maybe even the Islanders, eventually.


----------



## ryebreadraz

Ballparks/arenas that can be used 80+ times a year stay in New York. Stadiums that will get 20-30 games a year go to New Jersey.


----------



## krudmonk

NYC is a greedy jerk.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Dexter Morgan said:


> Red Bull Arena, Prudential Center, what's the 3rd? Riverfront Stadium?


New Meadowlands Stadium


----------



## Dexter Morgan

BoulderGrad said:


> New Meadowlands Stadium


The Meadowlands is more than a mile from Newark/Harrison. It's around 10 miles or so.


----------



## 1772

GunnerJacket said:


> That is, if MLS games are actually played in it this year. hno: :bash:


Why wouldn't they?


----------



## GunnerJacket

1772 said:


> Why wouldn't they?


MLS and the players union remain deadlocked regarding a new labor agreement. The player's union has authorized a strike if a new agreement isn't approved, meaning as of today the players won't play the games until the union says otherwise.

I appreciate many of their grievances but the timing is sheer folly. MLS is not stable enough to afford a sizable shut-down, and this could do irreparable harm to pro soccer in the US. :bash:


----------



## GunnerJacket

krudmonk said:


> NYC is a greedy jerk.


I'd say the policies an culture on the Jersey side show full complicity with most things NYC, good and bad. Ditto the portions of the metro within CT. And I say this as someone with about half my family in NJ, from Flemington to Newark.


----------



## Nexis

The third is Riverfront Stadium which hosts the Newark Bear's a semi-good minor league team. Which over the past year has sucked in alot of new patrons due to the cheap tickets and same as major league players in some aspects.


----------



## Dexter Morgan

Nexis said:


> The third is Riverfront Stadium which hosts the Newark Bear's a semi-good minor league team. Which over the past year has sucked in alot of new patrons due to the cheap tickets and same as major league players in some aspects.


Former major league players... who can't hack it anymore


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Looking forward to the opening of RBA tomorrow against Santos. Wish I could have gotten tickets


----------



## BoulderGrad

That's a relief. Strike averted:
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=758671&sec=mls&cc=5901


----------



## krudmonk

Thank *************************** God!!!!!


----------



## soup or man

Sit inside PPL Park (Chester Stadium).

http://philadelphiaunion.io-media.com/


----------



## Alan21LP

I'm watching the match NY Red Bulls vs Santos FC, the RBA looks great, with a euro-style and an american touch.


----------



## SIC

So that's it, it's settled I'm going to RBA next saturday in the away section.

200 Section 8'ers vs 25k soccer moms........i like those odds. You'll hear nothing but Fire chants, win or lose. I can't wait!


----------



## eMKay

I found this very nice pic of Paetec Park (now Marina Auto Stadium I guess) In Rochester browsing Google, great little stadium for a USL team, easily expandable to MLS quality, and Rochester support their team very well...


----------



## koolio

Yeah ... pretty good SSS ... especially considering how the Rhinos are in USL-1 (or are they in NASL now ... I forget). Also like Rochester as a city ... great upstate NY charm.


----------



## buy

*RED BULL ARENA IS AWESOME*

...and I have tickets for the game against Chicago! I thought it was still going to be called off because of the strike but when I got home I saw they had signed a 5 year labor contract. Yay for MLS season 2010! My seats were section 227, front row 2nd tier @ midfield! 

Pics:


















































































Check out those fans! It was such a great experience. Can't wait for next saturday! 










After goal #1










fireworks begin




























see you march 27!


----------



## dl3000

Dexter Morgan said:


> Both of New York's ballparks are 1 year old.
> 
> Yankees, Mets, Rangers, Knicks, and Liberty all play in NYC. The Nets will also be playing in NYC, and maybe even the Islanders, eventually.


Yes I know but how far are they from the original locations? Yeah I forgot Madison Square Garden (Penn Station should have stayed as it was).


RBA looks awesome.


----------



## Kazurro

And how many season tickets has NY Red Bulls sell? Do you expect attendance to rise up?

And by the way, what has changed with the new CBA, salary cap has rised up?


----------



## buy

> And how many season tickets has NY Red Bulls sell? Do you expect attendance to rise up?


I think its around 8k now. The target I think was 6k, so they did well there. I know they for sure are going to sell more season tickets. The person I went to the game with had never been to a game before and now wants season tickets. 

As for attendance...eh, maybe 18k average? I doubt they will sell out all of the games, but they should improve on last seasons average.


----------



## Aka

For the Portuguese: what's so great about this video? :banana:


----------



## ryebreadraz

Kazurro said:


> And how many season tickets has NY Red Bulls sell? Do you expect attendance to rise up?
> 
> And by the way, what has changed with the new CBA, salary cap has rised up?


I've heard that things went over so well last night that the 8k season ticket holders they had yesterday could be 9k by the open of the MLS season. I agree with the above poster that 18k will likely be the average attendance, although if RBNY play very well, I could see late season attendance jumping to push the season average to 20k.

The new CBA has done a few things. One, is players who are 24 or older and have played in the league for three or more years will not have guaranteed contacts. Another is that players who are out of contract can go into a re-entry draft instead of having his MLS right held onto by his former team. The third big one is a higher salary cap, although how much higher has not been released yet.


----------



## Scba

The Rochester stadium is nice, but looks very cheap.


----------



## Nexis

I don't think the Red bull's will get alot of sold out games. Except for games against other popular leagues. Alot of my Soccer Friends dislike them to other teams. But when Rutgers Univ Plays there games there , it will be a sell out. But i hope this is the final spark that puts Newark back on the map for people moving into the NYC Metro and i hope this accelerates the Urban Renewal in the Elizabeth-Newark-Jersey City area.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

If the team is winning I think they will be selling out more often than not.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Nexis said:


> But when Rutgers Univ Plays there games there , it will be a sell out.


When/why would Rutgers play there? It's too small for their football team and far too big for their footie or lacrosse teams. And since they just completed a $100M expansion of their football stadium to 53k why would they even need to play at RBA? I've not heard anything about this so if you've got some info I'd greatly appreciate the link.

- - - - - -

Yes, Rochester's stadium is cheap but keep in mind that's not MLS. For what they have I think it's a fabulous stadium and I pray that as pro soccer evolves in the US they remain in the loop: Pending the fate of NASL/USL the Rhinos could be reduced to D2/D3 level play rather then given a shot to move up to MLS, which would be a shame for this great community. This is the one thing that I fear about Canadian expansion, wherein some US cities are left out. I'm not against Canadian clubs, I would just hate to see places like Rochester (or St. Louis, Minnesota, etc) left out because of some possible arbitrary cap on the number of teams.

Rant over. 

- - - - - - -

Congrats to NJ and the RB:NY fans! Great venue and the game against Santos made for a fantastic TV experience. Still rooting for the team to be sold or rebranded, but otherwise I'm very happy for you lot. :cheers:


----------



## Nexis

ElVoltageDR said:


> If the team is winning I think they will be selling out more often than not.


True , but i still think the Collage games will attract more.


----------



## Nexis

GunnerJacket said:


> When/why would Rutgers play there? It's too small for their football team and far too big for their footie or lacrosse teams. And since they just completed a $100M expansion of their football stadium to 53k why would they even need to play at RBA? I've not heard anything about this so if you've got some info I'd greatly appreciate the link.
> 
> - - - - - -
> 
> Yes, Rochester's stadium is cheap but keep in mind that's not MLS. For what they have I think it's a fabulous stadium and I pray that as pro soccer evolves in the US they remain in the loop: Pending the fate of NASL/USL the Rhinos could be reduced to D2/D3 level play rather then given a shot to move up to MLS, which would be a shame for this great community. This is the one thing that I fear about Canadian expansion, wherein some US cities are left out. I'm not against Canadian clubs, I would just hate to see places like Rochester (or St. Louis, Minnesota, etc) left out because of some possible arbitrary cap on the number of teams.
> 
> Rant over.
> 
> - - - - - - -
> 
> Congrats to NJ and the RB:NY fans! Great venue and the game against Santos made for a fantastic TV experience. Still rooting for the team to be sold or rebranded, but otherwise I'm very happy for you lot. :cheers:


There are rumors floating around in the NJ Sports depts that Rutgers and some high schools will play there big games there.


----------



## nyrmetros

Scba said:


> Something about it reeks as being phony, seeing it coming from Seattle, which just started up. (Yes, I know that they existed prior to MLS inclusion, but were hardly a big deal)


Seattle has a long history of involvement in American soccer. Though proper organization of the club certainly helps. Can't say we've had a proper organization with the NY MLS team all these years.


----------



## Livno80101

Seattle franchise is best thing that happened to MLS since league is established... great atmosphere, great soccer fans, I was delighted last night at Qwest Field, like I was on some European stadium... and I hope Union can make good impact to the league, especially when they move to their new stadium

and about promotion/relegation - it is hardly to expect; there should be at least 32 franchises, to establish two levels of 16 teams (less than 16 is ridiculous for such a big country)... maybe in 20-30 years


----------



## krudmonk

RaiderATO said:


> I'm pretty ignorant on this, so bear with me.
> 
> Are there any "uniquely American" things happening with the MLS fans/clubs? Or are we just "copying" European, Mexican, Central/South American soccer customs?
> 
> Seattle's scarves seem to have a European heritage (again, ignorant, correct me if I'm wrong), the flags, banners, etc. aren't used in any other "American" sports. I accept chanting/singing but are the teams fans using original chants (are there even any truly original chants?) or are they copying other clubs' chants?
> 
> I guess, as a sports fan (and soccer is a sport), I'm trying to find something to get behind that makes MLS uniquely "American" amidst the sea of foreign influence.


About half the teams have respectable names, not this poseur "FC" or "United" bullshit. As for the flags, scarves and chants, I don't mind taking part. The whole world does this, and we live in it. There's room for uniqueness but we shouldn't be looking to shun all outside influence.


----------



## mattec

Aka said:


> http://www.mlssoccer.com/content/highlights-phi-sea


:naughty:


----------



## matthemod

Maybe there is a bit of trying to imitate a European/South American feel to the sport in the U.S. and to be honest I cannot see whether it should be a big deal or not. The popularity of the sport over the last 5 years or so (maybe even more) has just rocketed and that's something the U.S. should be proud of!

Besides it's early days still, i'm sure fans from Columbus being one of the first mls franchises have far more songs now than when they first started, and i'm sure the Union will develop some eventually. For the mean time i'm quite liking watching U.S. fans enjoying football with an international flare! It's not as if they do it for anything else! *tongue firmly in cheek*


----------



## Bobby3

RaiderATO said:


> I'm pretty ignorant on this, so bear with me.
> 
> Are there any "uniquely American" things happening with the MLS fans/clubs? Or are we just "copying" European, Mexican, Central/South American soccer customs?
> 
> Seattle's scarves seem to have a European heritage (again, ignorant, correct me if I'm wrong), the flags, banners, etc. aren't used in any other "American" sports. I accept chanting/singing but are the teams fans using original chants (are there even any truly original chants?) or are they copying other clubs' chants?
> 
> I guess, as a sports fan (and soccer is a sport), I'm trying to find something to get behind that makes MLS uniquely "American" amidst the sea of foreign influence.


Soccer is more tribal than other sports, even in other countries. You can't really say "European" because English football is so different from German football, Italian football, Spanish football or Dutch football. Even London and Manchester aren't the same culturally, and the clubs are reflective of that. If you want to go even further, look at the city of Hamburg. It's home to two wildly different club cultures in Hamburg SV and FC St Pauli. The latter has become iconic in punk circles world wide, and claims to have more female supporters than any sports team in the world.

As such, rather than adopt an "American" identity, American clubs tend to borrow from civic culture. This is present in places like Chicago and Portland especially. Even Columbus has its own thing.


----------



## nyrmetros

Hopefully someone get take pics of the PATH ride to RBA. People need to know how simple it is. It's $1.75 metrocard away from midtown or downtown.


----------



## dl3000

I think the fact that we call the game "soccer" and the rugby based game on the gridiron "football" in the mainstream is pretty uniquely American. Apparently back in the day the USSF originally used the term Association Football (soccer comes from the word asSOCiation for those who don't know) like the rest of the world but dropped it when the NFL got popular. I don't really like that fact but its American.


----------



## Scba

Though I find it funny that the majority of the English-speaking (English as a first language) people of the world call it soccer. America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, sometimes Ireland. Not saying it's right, I'm just saying with it is.


----------



## ak72

bigbossman said:


> Firstly can someone tell me why the expansion fee is not payable pro rata, adjusted for inflation over a period of 10 years? Surely it would work out better for the league as instead of seattle having to spend $30 million to enter, they'd spend $3 million and then would have $27 million to invest in other things... surely it would stop the league being prohibitively expensive to join, as more ownership groups would be able to raise larger amounts over a longer period. The extra revenue that the Sounders have no doubt brought into the league surely is more than enough to justify them or any prospective new entrant paying an expansion fee over a longer period. It just smacks of greed on the owners part to me.
> 
> Secondly, it's that same greed that seems to prohibit Relegation and promotion (sport in Europe still has a not-for-profit, no one should take money out of the game ethos). I don't know how many of you are familiar with how the football league (in England) was originally set up? Anyway it used to be four divisions with the bottom 4 teams from the fourth division standing for re-election and the best semi professional (hence the name non league) teams would apply to replace them. Well basically MLS could surely incorporate the format that way, they are fearful that LA or NY would get relegated, and they don't want to drop the hard cap, well then weight it so that LA or NY are unlikely to get relegated by introducing elected promotion and relegation between say MLS and MLS2, just an idea.
> 
> 
> Finally, I've heard rumours that most MLS teams aren't in as bad a finanical state as they claim, that is stadium income isn't factored into the strength of teams, is this true?


To your first point, the teams buying in, are buying in to become owners. The owners of Seattle are now part owners of the league. So it certainly isn't greed on the part of the owners. But here is the thing, the entry fee is as high as someone will pay. If they lowered it to $3 million for instance, you would have a flock of groups in various cities wanting a team who might not be able to support it long term. The big thing with MLS is controlled growth. Adding two teams next year is very aggressive for MLS. If they could not get more owner groups to join in the future at the pace MLS wants to pursue, they they would lower the price to attract more teams. But if there are a couple groups willing to pay the $40 million price tag, then it ensures slow and steady growth, and ensures that the owners have done their research and believe they can have a successful market and aren't just throwing money at something they think can work. Which, would hurt all of MLS in the long run.

To your second point. Look at how much more teams are supported when they make the jump from USL to MLS. Seattle? If a team was relegated to the second division, not saying everyone would leave, but the casual sports fans who come out would largely start to go away because their team isn't playing at the highest level. And would go back to focusing on the other 'Major League' teams in their city. I think everyone would like pro/rel and understands why its good. But at the young state MLS is in(15 years is not long) without a stable long term position, a top team in a top market getting relegated could spell disaster for the league as a whole. Remember the single entity structure MLS has means the league takes most of the revenue but pays all of the players, and loosing support in top television markets would negatively impact the rest of the league. At some point pro/rel will come, once everything has stabilized more (MLS 20-24 teams) and a stable USSL-2 (the new combo of USL and the group which broke off of USL). Once everything is stable (markets, fan bases, finances) then I could see the two coming together for pro/rel. But right now MLS is too young and unstable and pro/rel could cripple the league. 

I think the main point you have is the greedy owners are hurting the league. But remember, without the owners there would be no league. The owners are doing what is best for their investment, and what is best for their investment is a successful league, and a successful league is what is best for the fans and players.


----------



## massp88

RaiderATO said:


> I'm pretty ignorant on this, so bear with me.
> 
> Are there any "uniquely American" things happening with the MLS fans/clubs? Or are we just "copying" European, Mexican, Central/South American soccer customs?
> 
> Seattle's scarves seem to have a European heritage (again, ignorant, correct me if I'm wrong), the flags, banners, etc. aren't used in any other "American" sports. I accept chanting/singing but are the teams fans using original chants (are there even any truly original chants?) or are they copying other clubs' chants?
> 
> I guess, as a sports fan (and soccer is a sport), I'm trying to find something to get behind that makes MLS uniquely "American" amidst the sea of foreign influence.


What is wrong with the MLS and their fans emulating what they see in other countries? That would be like saying the PGA Tour should have adopted its own customs, separate from the European game. 

Soccer is a unique sport from a fans perspective that only rugby union is close to.

Fans chant and sing, they hold up their scarfs. It's all part of the experience. 

As other have mentioned, different countries in Europe do different things.


----------



## krudmonk

Scba said:


> Though I find it funny that the majority of the English-speaking (English as a first language) people of the world call it soccer. America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, sometimes Ireland. Not saying it's right, I'm just saying with it is.


The English will sometimes call it "soccer," too, but they don't want us to know that.


----------



## BoulderGrad

American teams now have their own hooligans:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/theblotter/2011367604_seattle_soccer_hooligans_choke.html


----------



## bigbossman

ak72 said:


> To your first point, the teams buying in, are buying in to become owners. The owners of Seattle are now part owners of the league. So it certainly isn't greed on the part of the owners. But here is the thing, the entry fee is as high as someone will pay. If they lowered it to $3 million for instance, you would have a flock of groups in various cities wanting a team who might not be able to support it long term. The big thing with MLS is controlled growth. Adding two teams next year is very aggressive for MLS. If they could not get more owner groups to join in the future at the pace MLS wants to pursue, they they would lower the price to attract more teams. But if there are a couple groups willing to pay the $40 million price tag, then it ensures slow and steady growth, and ensures that the owners have done their research and believe they can have a successful market and aren't just throwing money at something they think can work. Which, would hurt all of MLS in the long run.
> 
> To your second point. Look at how much more teams are supported when they make the jump from USL to MLS. Seattle? If a team was relegated to the second division, not saying everyone would leave, but the casual sports fans who come out would largely start to go away because their team isn't playing at the highest level. And would go back to focusing on the other 'Major League' teams in their city. I think everyone would like pro/rel and understands why its good. But at the young state MLS is in(15 years is not long) without a stable long term position, a top team in a top market getting relegated could spell disaster for the league as a whole. Remember the single entity structure MLS has means the league takes most of the revenue but pays all of the players, and loosing support in top television markets would negatively impact the rest of the league. At some point pro/rel will come, once everything has stabilized more (MLS 20-24 teams) and a stable USSL-2 (the new combo of USL and the group which broke off of USL). Once everything is stable (markets, fan bases, finances) then I could see the two coming together for pro/rel. But right now MLS is too young and unstable and pro/rel could cripple the league.
> 
> I think the main point you have is the greedy owners are hurting the league. But remember, without the owners there would be no league. The owners are doing what is best for their investment, and what is best for their investment is a successful league, and a successful league is what is best for the fans and players.


My God, if you are gonna quote someone and argue against points that they made make sure you actually read what they wrote and debate actually against that, not what you think or hope they did...

Anyway I never said/suggested that you should lower the expansion fee to $3 million and I never said/suggested they should introduce promotion and relegation as it is in Europe. 

Read my post again to see what I _actually_ said


----------



## bigbossman

JYDA said:


> Not sure about the stadium income part but I do know that one of the dirty little secrets of the league is the profitability of their marketing arm (Soccer United Marketing). SUM controls every lucrative soccer event that happens in the United States from the gold cup to international/club friendlies as well as the tv rights to the Mexican league (by far the most watched soccer league in the Untied States). The most important of all is control of the Mexican national team's neverending US tours that go city to city drawing 50 to 100 thousand no matter where they play or who they play (100 thousand vs Haiti in Dallas, 93 thousand vs New Zealand in LA, 70 thousand vs Iceland's B team in Charlotte).
> 
> The league insists on claiming SUM as a seperate entity especially when it came to collective bargaining with the players so they can cry poor.


So where does that money go then?


----------



## bigbossman

krudmonk said:


> The English will sometimes call it "soccer," too, but they don't want us to know that.


You sure? 

The media sometimes title their programmes using the word soccer to differentiate from the norm or create catchy aliterative names, such as _Socer AM_ or _Soccer Saturday_, but that's the media.

You'd be hard pressed to find a normal English football fan who would use the word Soccer in everyday conversation. You'll find people who follow Rugby Union or League and/or don't really like football and the fact it claims the name who call it Soccer (read CharlieP). 

You'll also find some posh people do too, but it's not a widespread term hence why most people think it's some sort of "americanism".


----------



## koolio

bigbossman said:


> You sure?
> 
> The media sometimes title their programmes using the word soccer to differentiate from the norm or create catchy aliterative names, such as _Socer AM_ or _Soccer Saturday_, but that's the media.
> 
> You'd be hard pressed to find a normal English football fan who would use the word Soccer in everyday conversation. You'll find people who follow Rugby Union or League and/or don't really like football and the fact it claims the name who call it Soccer (read CharlieP).
> 
> You'll also find some posh people do too, but it's not a widespread term hence why most people think it's some sort of "americanism".


He never claimed that it was widespread. Various media outlets, Rugby fans and posh people can, at the very least, be described as "sometimes" as qualified as such in krudmonk's post.


----------



## bigbossman

koolio said:


> He never claimed that it was widespread. Various media outlets, Rugby fans and posh people can, at the very least, be described as "sometimes" as qualified as such in krudmonk's post.


I never said he did, but he claimed it was some little dirty little secret that we don't like to admit. I was merely showing that it's no dirty secret and that the people who use the term aren't generally those who follow the sport.


----------



## Bobby3

BoulderGrad said:


> American teams now have their own hooligans:
> http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/theblotter/2011367604_seattle_soccer_hooligans_choke.html


They have for awhile.

Rochester and Montreal get in fights sometimes, but nobody notices because it isn't MLS.


----------



## jhawkman02

*Kansas City - Kansas City Wizards Stadium (18,500)*

Kansas City Wizards Soccer Club has broken ground on a new state-of-art stadium in Kansas City, KS. The stadium will have a capacity of 18,500 with 33 suites and 3 clubs for supporters. Included in the plan is area development that is to include multiple youth fields and a new office for the parent company Cerner.

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ytBoRdQYZ...s/TTzWPhB5Yvo/s1600-h/JanRevWizards300dpi.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ytBoRdQYZ...s1600-h/10-0118+Cauldron+Club+Color+Study.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ytBoRdQYZ.../s1600-h/10-0118+Stadium+Club+Color+Study.jpg


----------



## Livno80101

looks brilliant... good job, architect :banana:


----------



## BoulderGrad

Nice! So with this and Houston getting their stadium deal settled, who's left for getting SSSes? 

I got just:
DC
New England
San Jose

All 3 seem to be at some level of planning, but San Jose is probably the furthest along (at least until their plans fall through like DC).


----------



## weava

and here is the location its being built at, across the street from a huge nascar track 20 minutes from Kansas City, MO


----------



## nyrmetros

Anyone find pictures from the Metro - Chicago game at RBA?


----------



## Aka

Another thread to be closed. Jesus, guys! Read the damn rules!


----------



## jhawkman02

Aka said:


> Another thread to be closed. Jesus, guys! Read the damn rules!




Why close it? I might be new so help me out, where are the rules located?


----------



## Aka

A stadium must be, at least, 30k to have its own thread.


----------



## matthemod

A pretty pedantic ruling to be honest...but heck rules is rules.


----------



## Scba

Shame they can't tear out the racetrack, it's one of the dullest tracks on the circuit.


----------



## KingmanIII

Scba said:


> Shame they can't tear out the racetrack, it's one of the dullest tracks on the circuit.


They planned on adding a road course before the economy went to shit.


----------



## krudmonk

That rule is anti-American






soccer.


----------



## KingmanIII

weava said:


> and here is the location its being built at, across the street from a huge nascar track 20 minutes from Kansas City, MO


It will also be built in the middle of Village West, a mixed-use development that sprang up around the Speedway, which includes Cabela's, Nebraska Furniture Mart, the Legends Shopping Center, and CommunityAmerica Ballpark, the home of the Northern League's T-Bones (and temporary home of the Wizards), among many other things.


----------



## jandeczentar

Looks a good project and it's certainly better than having the Wizards continue to play at Arrowhead, which is miles too big for them.

PS. The capacity requirement for threads here should be removed. If it's a stadium or arena and it's under construction then why shouldn't it have it's own page?


----------



## jhawkman02

Well I hope it doesn't get closed, but I look around the forum and see quite a few post with stadiums way under 30k even under the 18,500 this one has.


----------



## KingmanIII

jandeczentar said:


> Looks a good project and it's certainly better than having the Wizards continue to play at Arrowhead, which is miles too big for them.


They haven't played at Arrowhead for two years -- they've been playing at that baseball park in the last picture.


----------



## massp88

Scba said:


> Shame they can't tear out the racetrack, it's one of the dullest tracks on the circuit.


It seems every track is pretty dull these days for NASCAR, attendance and TV ratings are both down.



Good for Kansas City. Are there any more renderings for the inside of the stadium?


----------



## lpioe

jhawkman02 said:


> Kansas City Wizards Soccer Club has broken ground on a new state-of-art stadium in Kansas City, KS. The stadium will have a capacity of 18,500 with 33 suites and 3 clubs for supporters. Included in the plan is area development that is to include multiple youth fields and a new office for the parent company Cerner.
> 
> :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:
> 
> 
> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ytBoRdQYZ...s/TTzWPhB5Yvo/s1600-h/JanRevWizards300dpi.jpg
> 
> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ytBoRdQYZ...s1600-h/10-0118+Cauldron+Club+Color+Study.jpg
> 
> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ytBoRdQYZ.../s1600-h/10-0118+Stadium+Club+Color+Study.jpg


links not working here.


----------



## massp88

http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/news...ndaymlsbreakdownnewyorkdi&prov=goal&type=lgns

No surprise here. Red Bull Arena has received good reviews.


----------



## Scba

:hahano:

Really though, Kansas is pretty awful. Good to way to reaffirm your beliefs if you think Nascar is dull.


----------



## SIC

nyrmetros said:


> Anyone find pictures from the Metro - Chicago game at RBA?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KllDmOkkS1c

I was there.....but too busy chanting/drumming/etc to take pics, but others did. And yes, it's a sweet stadium. Although it does have a passing resemblance to the hidenburg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ifDdq1uofw

[email protected] security at the 30 second mark. You won't see that in the EPL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uESG7V5HLVE
1hr before the game, testing out the acoustic properties of the roof.









The Jersey "sellout".




Oh right, fans of Modern Football/Energy Drinks. They're alright, I suppose. For fans of a plastic team. :cheers:









http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgbyd5Bk7kg


----------



## weava

Hansadyret said:


> ^^Put something like this in one of the ends and you have a near a perfect football/soccer stadium:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tottenhams plans look very close to it.


maybe for soccer but not for football.


----------



## Hansadyret

weava said:


> maybe for soccer but not for football.


Yes i know. I was talking about soccer or football as i call it. In am. football sideviews is more important because of the yardlines.


----------



## Mr. Fitz

I think he means that NFL is played there too so it wouldn't be a good idea.


----------



## Hansadyret

Mr. Fitz said:


> I think he means that NFL is played there too so it wouldn't be a good idea.


No not in Seattle but for Liverpool it would, if they ever get started on their new stadium. Maybe they need new owners again to make it happen.


----------



## koolio

The plans are indeed to build a single tier Kop in the new Liverpool stadium but who knows ... don't think the stadium is close to reality at the moment anyways.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Hansadyret said:


> ^^Put something like this in one of the ends and you have a near a perfect football/soccer stadium:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tottenhams plans look very close to it.


That must be an interesting feeling... 20,000 people sitting behind you, all of them wanting you to f**k up...


----------



## ANTIEMO

^^

that´s the feeling of the soccer


----------



## Melb_aviator

Is it just me or does that look dangerous to anyone else? From a safety and evacuation perspective.

It is amazing the support the German League gets though.


----------



## ANTIEMO

Melb_aviator said:


> Is it just me or does that look dangerous to anyone else? From a safety and evacuation perspective.
> 
> It is amazing the support the German League gets though.


I dont think that's so dangerous, but htat seems to be so unconfortable.

That stadium was home to several games during de WC 2006 and no incidents were related.


----------



## bongo-anders

But seats are installed during international games and capacity reduced to 10.500, so that is a bad argument.


----------



## KingmanIII

BoulderGrad said:


> That must be an interesting feeling... 20,000 people sitting behind you, all of them wanting you to f**k up...


Or, alternatively, 20K in front of you wanting you to f**k up a PK.

It's like making the game-winning FT in a hostile basketball arena, only better.


----------



## krudmonk

bigbossman said:


> So where does that money go then?


my team opening youth academy, as are others
http://www.sjearthquakes.com/academy
rosters expanding to allow teams to keep some of the best players they develop, sidestepping the draft
http://www.american11soccer.com/2010/04/mls-increases-roster-size-to-26-to.html
allowing 3 designated players per team with each counting less toward the cap so the stars are not surrounded by scrubs
http://goal.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/01/m-l-s-expands-designated-player-rule/


----------



## Hansadyret

krudmonk said:


> rosters expanding to allow teams to keep some of the best players they develop, sidestepping the draft


Good move.
Imagine Barcelona loosing Messi, Xavi, Iniesta in a draft. That would not encourage development of players.
What club in MLS is the best producer of young talent?


----------



## Wezza

BoulderGrad said:


> That must be an interesting feeling... 20,000 people sitting behind you, all of them wanting you to f**k up...


I can tell you now, none of those people are sitting.


----------



## ryebreadraz

Hansadyret said:


> Good move.
> Imagine Barcelona loosing Messi, Xavi, Iniesta in a draft. That would not encourage development of players.
> What club in MLS is the best producer of young talent?


Well, youth academies are a new thing for MLS so they're still adjusting rules to encourage the development while not favoring the clubs in regions that just produce more talent than others. It's a work in progress, but very different than Europe. Not better or worse, just different. Each system has its positives and negatives.

When it comes to producing young talent, New York has been damn good. They produced both Michael Bradley and Jozy Altidore. Los Angeles has been good lately, producing both of the last two Rookies of the Year.


----------



## MS20

Melb_aviator said:


> Is it just me or does that look dangerous to anyone else? From a safety and evacuation perspective.
> 
> It is amazing the support the German League gets though.


There are barriers strategically placed all over the terrace there so there is no landslide, if you will. You won't ever see the type of rushing towards the fence you might in South America (that is very dangerous) because the steel bars ensure that even if there was a slight issue, it would never evolve into anything big. 

Also, German fans are organized and mannerly. They're too suave for it to be dangerous.


----------



## kuquito

Not a big fan. The MLS should raise their standards









[/QUOTE]


----------



## krudmonk

Are you a big fan of reading the thread?


----------



## bigbossman

krudmonk said:


> my team opening youth academy, as are others
> http://www.sjearthquakes.com/academy


Ok and how will that work then an MLS academy league?



> rosters expanding to allow teams to keep some of the best players they develop, sidestepping the draft
> http://www.american11soccer.com/2010/04/mls-increases-roster-size-to-26-to.html


expanding squads isn't a good thing, it's part of the problem we have over here.

and only get to keep some of the best players? Surely you should keep all (the ones you want to) because surely academies would be entirely locally sourced so say the best players from alabama would still join the draft?



> allowing 3 designated players per team with each counting less toward the cap so the stars are not surrounded by scrubs
> http://goal.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/01/m-l-s-expands-designated-player-rule/


The designated player thing is weird, do stars really get people into stadiums over there?


----------



## SJAnfield

bigbossman said:


> The designated player thing is weird, do stars really get people into stadiums over there?


Yep. Its sad really.


----------



## thicken

eua just need more soccers fans


----------



## krudmonk

thicken said:


> eua just need more soccers fans


No, we need more soccer fans to support the home league. That's what the designated player rule will do. Beckham was aimed at non-soccer fans, but other names will target the snooty connoisseur.


----------



## SIC

Inferious said:


> will have to wait for the first season to see if the 18k stadium can be filled. maybe after some time they could expand stadium if they sell out their games


Toronto already did, so I don't see why not.

Actually........stadiums like the ones in philly, dallas, bridgeview, rio tinto, Toronto and even crew stadium aren't that far away from looking like Red Bull Arena. Well not just like it, but in general. Roof all the way around, complete seating bowl.
They just need crowds big enough to justify the cost of filling in the ends, extending roof and building an upper deck all the way around.


----------



## SIC

Oh and this came out. Renderings plus plans of PGE park in Portland.



http://www.portlandonline.com/bds/PGE-Park-Design-Commission-Set-04-06-2010.pdf


----------



## TonyAnderson

> *Behold, the unveiling of the RSL 2009 Championship Banner.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photos by Lee Powell
> 
> By the way the game ended in a tie. 2-2 over the Sounders.


Real Salt Lake unveiling their MSL Championship banner on opening night at Rio Tinto stadium.


----------



## GunnerJacket

SIC said:


> Oh and this came out. Renderings plus plans of PGE park in Portland.
> 
> http://www.portlandonline.com/bds/PGE-Park-Design-Commission-Set-04-06-2010.pdf


From what I understand the final design captures both interests of the local fans (open access to street from new stands) as well as the minimal costs to the owners. And supposedly the details will ensure a harmonious marriage between the old and new elements of the stadium.

That being said, the design fan and soccer fan in me is quite disappointed. 
-I wish the new east stand was closer in size and form to, and actually connected to, the existing seating bowl. Are the club seats and groups seating sections (the voids within the new seating forms) that necessary? 
-I also would rather have seen a 3-sided horseshoe rather than seeing only a couple rows provided at the one end. Seems a hollow gesture, that. 
- At the least there should be some roofing to cover all the new seating to bring it more in line with the existing structure.

It will have a completely organic feel and I'm told that there remains the potential for expansion within this footprint, mainly by sacrificing the viewshed to/from the street. So while in my opinion this falls short of what could've been, there remains hope in what it could be.* Fans will make the biggest difference, though. If it's filled as they hope then the shortcomings will be quickly overlooked.

*= I wonder if they've truly explored a build-out potential for this site? My biggest lament of stadium renovations is their seeming ambivalence towards future expansion/renovation. In a near-perfect world they would already have the draft designs on hand that shows what the stadium could be at maximum capacity, so that every interim renovation remains part of a larger, comprehensive scheme. Might they someday get 30k here, or would they be forever held at 25k or lower?

Edit: Could the desire for preserving views into the stadium been accomplished through virtual means? Murals or video boards perhaps? I fear this accommodation may have compromised the site's ability to host a larger expansion down the line?


----------



## metros11

hubemx said:


> I think the Union should have waited and keep playing in philly until they could get a downtown stadium. Chester it´s too far from Philly and i don´t think people like to drive that much to watch the game. Remember Dallas?


Frisco, with no public transportation and 30 miles from downtown Dallas, is a much different location than Chester, with access to public transport and only 13 miles away.


----------



## JYDA

Great news in Houston. The Dynamo stadium cleared the final hurdle with council approval. The deal is done and the stadium can start construction.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/local/100413-county-approves-dynamo-stadium-deal


----------



## nyrmetros

metros11 said:


> Frisco, with no public transportation and 30 miles from downtown Dallas, is a much different location than Chester, with access to public transport and only 13 miles away.


Does the Philly subway system go that far ?


----------



## dl3000

nyrmetros said:


> Does the Philly subway system go that far ?


Not subway but SEPTA regional rail does.


----------



## TheKorean

Should have built it in Philly Sports Complex. Nothing but parking lots there for the most part. I heard they were gonna tear down the Spectrum.


----------



## nyrmetros

dl3000 said:


> Not subway but SEPTA regional rail does.


How much is the ride from 30th street station to Chester on the commuter rail ?


----------



## krudmonk

JYDA said:


> Great news in Houston. The Dynamo stadium cleared the final hurdle with council approval. The deal is done and the stadium can start construction.
> 
> http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/local/100413-county-approves-dynamo-stadium-deal


Wow, and the _revived_ Earthquakes are in only their third year! Anschutz and Leiweke can go die.


----------



## SJAnfield

krudmonk said:


> Wow, and the _revived_ Earthquakes are in only their third year! Anschutz and Leiweke can go die.


I'll drink to that! :cheers:


----------



## KingmanIII

hubemx said:


> I think the Union should have waited and keep playing in philly until they could get a downtown stadium. Chester it´s too far from Philly and i don´t think people like to drive that much to watch the game. Remember Dallas?





weava said:


> Kansas City is making the same mistake. I drove by the new stadium construction site this past weekend and they are already pouring concrete.


It's the right move for KC. The soccer fans are mostly from the Kansas side, plus Village West has become one of the area's premier shopping destinations.

They're creating a BRT line out there, anyway.


----------



## weava

KingmanIII said:


> It's the right move for KC. The soccer fans are mostly from the Kansas side, plus Village West has become one of the area's premier shopping destinations.
> 
> They're creating a BRT line out there, anyway.


its called a "destination" for a reason, its not in the city. And its about to transition into a outlet mall because sales aren't what they projected.


----------



## SIC

weava said:


> its called a "destination" for a reason, its not in the city. And its about to transition into a outlet mall because sales aren't what they projected.


Yeah, I guess the worst recession in 40 years sorta killed their sales.

Anyway, does Kansas city even have a downtown like Chicago, Toronto and Seattle do? I figure in middle American everyone is used to driving and it's not way out there like Frisco. So it should be ok.


----------



## GunnerJacket

SIC said:


> Anyway, does Kansas city even have a downtown like Chicago, Toronto and Seattle do?


Few cities (none?) outside the northeast have a downtown like/as big as Chicago. But as to jump right to your question, KC is like many mid-sized metros in that they have an urban core but it's not densely populated or as active on a 24/7 basis. Thus, the value of an urban location is almost as speculative as a more suburban locale: They're both still dependent on adjacent future development and transportation improvements that will improve/sustain accessibility. 

Frisco appears to be the most extreme of the exurban development plans and I'd hardly couch them alongside sites like Bridgeview (Chi) or Chester (Phi), since in Frisco they seemed more reliant on future growth and an evolution of character. Plus they probably overestimated the distance factor for their fan-base. KC, on the other hand, knows that an overwhelming amount of their fan base will remain within an hour of the new location, and the new facility apparently will feature a more fan friendly design than PHP to help entice fans. More accessible + nicer venue = projected better response.

One man's opinion, anyway. :cheers:


----------



## KingmanIII

SIC said:


> Yeah, I guess the worst recession in 40 years sorta killed their sales.
> 
> Anyway, does Kansas city even have a downtown like Chicago, Toronto and Seattle do? I figure in middle American everyone is used to driving and it's not way out there like Frisco. So it should be ok.


Just about every city with a considerable population has a downtown.

But no, our skyline isn't as tall as those cities you mentioned.


----------



## krudmonk

When did Seattle jump into Chicago/Toronto territory? That's not a question of skyline, amenities or urban design, just size. A downtown location works well there as it would in any city, including KC.


----------



## MS20

However it may look, its 18,500 capacity, with scope for expansion. That's perfect in my mind. You of all people should know what a stadium that potentially restricts demand can do for the team. If there is a need to expand in the future, then so be it. Otherwise, its a good place to start.


----------



## KingmanIII

To help put an end to the off-topic discussion, here's a thread from SSP with a few photos (too large to post here) showcasing T.O.'s skyline in all its true glory:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=170593


----------



## sbutlik

*Philly Union Facebook...*



Jackie003 said:


> haha yeah I took the first pics guys. I hope that shuts up the troll for a bit at least. Let's get back to the main subject.
> 
> Anyone have an update of Philly's stadium?



go to union facebook... it has more pictures.

www.facebook.com/philadelphiaunion


----------



## koolio

I heard some Philly fans got rocks thrown at them outside the new Red Bull Stadium after the match.


----------



## Scba

koolio said:


> I heard some Philly fans got rocks thrown at them outside the new Red Bull Stadium after the match.


And so it begins...


----------



## Nexis

There was a poll somewhere , that more New Jerseyans would support the team if they were called the "Newark or New Jersey" Red Bulls. The Attendance is also down. Isn't that strange , couldn't say i warned ya guys , most of us New Jerseyites are getting sick of having NY teams play here.hno:


----------



## weava

Nexis said:


> There was a poll somewhere , that more New Jerseyans would support the team if they were called the "Newark or New Jersey" Red Bulls. The Attendance is also down. Isn't that strange , couldn't say i warned ya guys , most of us New Jerseyites are getting sick of having NY teams play here.hno:


you realize you are in the new york metro right???


----------



## Nexis

weava said:


> you realize you are in the new york metro right???


I know i said this before , but you have to see it form a Jersey Perspective. Yes every Metro has the name of the sports team named after its main city. But New Jersey is different we do so much for NYC and build arenas and stadiums for all there teams and receive little or no credit. I'm glad they'll built it in Jersey but still , i'm starting to get a little angry. & People looking might not understand that , but for most Jerseyites we've become New York's Bitch , we do almost everything.


----------



## Dexter Morgan

Nexis said:


> There was a poll somewhere , that more New Jerseyans would support the team if they were called the "Newark or New Jersey" Red Bulls. The Attendance is also down. Isn't that strange , couldn't say i warned ya guys , *most of us New Jerseyites are getting sick of having NY teams play here.hno:*


LOL... No we're really not


----------



## Dexter Morgan

Nexis said:


> I know i said this before , but you have to see it form a Jersey Perspective. Yes every Metro has the name of the sports team named after its main city. But New Jersey is different we do so much for NYC and build arenas and stadiums for all there teams and receive little or no credit. I'm glad they'll built it in Jersey but still , i'm starting to get a little angry. & People looking might not understand that , but for most Jerseyites we've become New York's Bitch , we do almost everything.


again...no we really don't


----------



## Nexis

Dexter Morgan said:


> again...no we really don't


LOL , did you just post 2x? wtf ......if you read in the sport sections of many NJ newpapers (online) people are very upset about the naming of the team, they do want a "Jersey" team. Its not hard to see why , i will ask my friends at the largest paper , to try to do a statewide poll on this.


----------



## Dexter Morgan

Nexis said:


> LOL , did you just post 2x? wtf ......if you read in the sport sections of many NJ newpapers (online) people are very upset about the naming of the team, they do want a "Jersey" team. Its not hard to see why , i will ask my friends at the largest paper , to try to do a statewide poll on this.



Yeah, I responded to two of your dense posts.

How about the millions who don't give a crap and don't post on "online NJ newpapers" and are just happy it's close by?


----------



## Nexis

Dexter Morgan said:


> Yeah, I responded to two of your dense posts.
> 
> How about the millions who don't give a crap and don't post on "online NJ newpapers" and are just happy it's close by?


Okay, i'm just going to step back form this for a while.......let everybody cool down.


----------



## krudmonk

Dexter Morgan said:


> LOL... No we're really not


You should have more pride like that other guy. Stop pretending to be a New Yorker.


----------



## Nexis

krudmonk said:


> You should have more pride like that other guy. Stop pretending to be a New Yorker.


I'm a born New Yorker living in Jersey


----------



## Dexter Morgan

krudmonk said:


> You should have more pride like that other guy. Stop pretending to be a New Yorker.


Don't be ignorant.


----------



## krudmonk

Dexter Morgan said:


> Don't be ignorant...


----------



## Dexter Morgan

krudmonk said:


>



Hilarious... hno:

Tens and thousands of people from NJ work in NYC day in and day out. Are you telling me these people are not New Yorkers? Are you telling me all those NJ residents who perished on 9-11 are not New Yorkers? Get a clue man. NYC Metro area goes beyond the borders of NY state.


----------



## krudmonk

Haha, oh yeah, drag fucking 9/11 into this....


----------



## carlosfng

Scba said:


> Originally Posted by koolio
> I heard some Philly fans got rocks thrown at them outside the new Red Bull Stadium after the match.
> 
> 
> And so it begins...


Ironically, throwing rocks at rival fans is considered a bitch move, at least in South America...

(trying to change the topic)


----------



## metros11

krudmonk said:


> So what's the point of the Devils and Nets? Do they not market themselves to New Jersey? Why don't they call themselves "New York" and try to get fans from across the river, like the Rangers, Isles and Knicks do? I mean, New Jersey residents will root for a New York team just the same, according to you, but will New Yorkers root for a New Jersey team? Unless those two are tapping into a populace of proud NJ people (which you claim does not exist), they are wasting their time with the "New Jersey" branding.


Way to totally misconstrue what I said. When did I ever say that people of NJ aren't proud? We are. We just don't care that sports team that play in NJ call themselves NY. New York is the center and core of the Tri-State area we live in, and there's nothing wrong with naming the teams after the city.

BTW, the Nets (who can't wait to move to NY) and the Devils (who showed up after the Rangers and Islanders) are totally irrelevant to your argument.


----------



## krudmonk

They're not irrelevant to my argument, you just can't tell what my argument is. They are named for New Jersey and play in New Jersey, so it's obvious whom they are targeting. This means there are some who identify with New Jersey more than New York, and the fact that they showed up after the Rangers, Isles and Knicks only strengthens that point. Existing hockey and basketball fans in New Jersey would have stayed loyal to the established New York teams, no? Instead, they adopted the team that actually acknowledges them. I doubt Nexis is the only person turned off by teams that use New Jersey for the land and New York for the brand.


----------



## metros11

krudmonk said:


> Existing hockey and basketball fans in New Jersey would have stayed loyal to the established New York teams, no? *Instead, they adopted the team that actually acknowledges them.*


Really? Is that why Knicks and Rangers sell out every game while the Devils and Nets struggle with attendance? Let me be clear here, there are very few people who care about the Nets. They average at most 5,000 people a game. Last year they had a promotion where they were literally giving away free tickets. Now to the Devils, the most successful New Jersey franchise. Three Stanley Cups and a new arena, and they can't even fill all the seats for a playoff game.




krudmonk said:


> I doubt Nexis is the only person turned off by teams that use New Jersey for the land and New York for the brand.


He's not the only one. I'm sure there are others. But as I said, they're a minority. And more often then not these people have no interest in sports.


----------



## krudmonk

metros11 said:


> Really? Is that why Knicks and Rangers sell out every game while the Devils and Nets struggle with attendance? Let me be clear here, there are very few people who care about the Nets. They average at most 5,000 people a game. Last year they had a promotion where they were literally giving away free tickets. Now to the Devils, the most successful New Jersey franchise. Three Stanley Cups and a new arena, and they can't even fill all the seats for a playoff game.


A direct comparison was not my point. Obviously there are more New Yorkers and more New York fans.


metros11 said:


> He's not the only one. I'm sure there are others. But as I said, they're a minority. And more often then not these people have no interest in sports.


This is my point. He's hardly the only one. He may take it to an exceptional extreme, but it does rub some the wrong way.


----------



## metros11

krudmonk said:


> A direct comparison was not my point. Obviously there are more New Yorkers and more New York fans.


It has nothing to do with New Yorkers. There are over 5 million people in North Jersey alone. Surely there would be enough fans to fill those seats. The problem for NJ teams goes deeper. My best friend runs the North Jersey Brigade (njbrigade.com), he's New Jersey through and through. And yet he is a big Rangers fan. My two co-workers, both have lived in New Jersey all their lives. One is an Islanders fan, the other is a Knicks fan. Again, I can't stress this enough, people from New Jersey have no problem supporting teams called New York.


----------



## Dexter Morgan

metros11 said:


> It has nothing to do with New Yorkers. There are over 5 million people in North Jersey alone. Surely there would be enough fans to fill those seats. The problem for NJ teams goes deeper. My best friend runs the North Jersey Brigade (njbrigade.com), he's New Jersey through and through. And yet he is a big Rangers fan. My two co-workers, both have lived in New Jersey all their lives. One is an Islanders fan, the other is a Knicks fan. Again, I can't stress this enough, people from New Jersey have no problem supporting teams called New York.


Devils came to NJ in 1982. Nets came to NJ in 1977. Family allegiances to the Rangers and Knicks were made well before the Devils and Nets ever came to the Garden State.


----------



## metros11

Dexter Morgan said:


> Devils came to NJ in 1982. Nets came to NJ in 1977. Family allegiances to the Rangers and Knicks were made well before the Devils and Nets ever came to the Garden State.


Yes, I'm aware of this fact. Hence my point.


----------



## krudmonk

metros11 said:


> Again, I can't stress this enough, people from New Jersey have no problem supporting teams called New York.


That was never up for debate. The point was about feeling slighted by a "New York" team playing in New Jersey with no acknowledgment of New Jersey or its fans.


----------



## massp88

How does a discussion about soccer stadiums in the U.S. turn into a lame debate over the status of New York/ NJ and why people don't attend Nets/Devils games?


----------



## GunnerJacket

Anyone know of a good site for talking architecture?... 



I'll attempt to redress the crowd. 

- Have the folks at DC offered any comment after Garber's (MLS head) criticism of their handling of United's search for a new home?

- Are the folks behind Chivas monitoring attendance levels this season? I know it's popular internet fodder but I really have to wonder if they don't consider relocation options if they continue to struggle now that the league is able to establish itself in other cities. Phoenix? San Diego?


----------



## krudmonk

There are grassroots efforts in San Diego and San Antonio that have hinted at targeting Chivas and Dallas, respectively. Aiming for those franchises is just rumor, but it's also a sign that the league is not going to hand out more franchises in Texas and California.


----------



## rantanamo

krudmonk said:


> There are grassroots efforts in San Diego and San Antonio that have hinted at targeting Chivas and Dallas, respectively. Aiming for those franchises is just rumor, but it's also a sign that the league is not going to hand out more franchises in Texas and California.


why do they want Dallas? Didn't FC Dallas just build a new stadium not long ago?


----------



## krudmonk

rantanamo said:


> why do they want Dallas? Didn't FC Dallas just build a new stadium not long ago?


Yes, but attendance is still awful. They play way out in the burbs. I think having their own facility means the company still makes money, though, so why would they leave. It's a shame that they decided to set up camp in Frisco.


----------



## SJAnfield

rantanamo said:


> why do they want Dallas? Didn't FC Dallas just build a new stadium not long ago?


Yeah, but when you draw 8,000 or less a game, there are problems that need to be adressed. Unfortunately the first solution in this country is to pack up and move out.


----------



## massp88

I could see getting Chivas to move down to San Diego, that would be a good move as San Diego does not have a team and LA has two.


----------



## koolio

I want to see Chivas USA being sold to a different ownership group, re-branded, and moved to Miami.


----------



## GunnerJacket

krudmonk said:


> ... but it's also a sign that the league is not going to hand out more franchises in Texas and California.


Really? I always assumed San Diego might remain eligible? Heaven knows either state has the population base for such, but SD especially is trying to further carve out their own identity within SoCal, and I think that would aid the rivalry appeal of Chivas with both the Galaxy and San Jose. One man's thoughts, anyway.

At the least, having two teams in one market doesn't help MLS in spreading it's appeal. Granted, neither does the fact that Chivas comes across as just a farm team for a club in another national league. 



SJAnfield said:


> Unfortunately the first solution in this country is to pack up and move out.


True. I find it amazing the earlier losses of Tampa, Miami didn't kill MLS' credibility, and moreso after San Jose was shucked off to Houston. Bad juju, that.



koolio said:


> I want to see Chivas USA being sold to a different ownership group, re-branded, and moved to Miami.


I was thinking St. Louis or San Diego, myself, but wherever they find hometown support is fine by me.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Question for those who know better about the old Fusion situation: How much of their problem was location vs management vs Lockhart Stadium? The place wasn't a palace, but for US soccer standards it sure appeared a decent place to call home for what MLS was at the time.


----------



## ASupertall4SD

id only want Chivas in San Diego if they totally rebranded. Chivas USA gets no love in LA, because it doesn't try to claim Los Angeles, but rather displays its true allegiances to the Mexican League and its big brother Chivas. 

Boo to that.


----------



## hngcm

ASupertall4SD said:


> id only want Chivas in San Diego if they totally rebranded. Chivas USA gets no love in LA, because it doesn't try to claim Los Angeles, but rather displays its true allegiances to the Mexican League and its big brother Chivas.
> 
> Boo to that.


Even as a Chivas fan I would also want Chivas USA to be re-branded. 

Bring back the San Diego Sockers!


----------



## massp88

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/news/story?id=5194974

Henry is coming to the Red Bulls. This will be big for them.

Granted he is not playing in the form he did while at Highbury/The Emirates, he still is a solid player and comes to America at a better stage in his career as Beckham did. He was not heavily used for Barca.....so this is not a surprise.

I wonder if some other former big players in Europe, perhaps a Ruud Van Nistlerooy, or Lucca Toni, would be tempted to come over. The MLS will never be able to get players in their prime, such as a David Villa, Fernando Torres, Wesley Sneijder, etc. They don't have the money and the MLS is inferior to the leagues in Europe....players would not be able to validate themselves. It would be like going to play American football in a Brazilian league instead of the NFL.


----------



## lpioe

massp88 said:


> Granted he is not playing in the form he did while at Highbury/The Emirates, he still is a solid player and comes to America at a better stage in his career as Beckham did.


Disagree.
Beckham was great in the 2nd half of his last season at Madrid.
At the start of the season Capello threw him out of the squad, at the end he was an undisputable starter.
Henry is the opposite, he started this season as a starter and ended it not playing at all.

Anyway it's good news for Red Bull, I hope he can boost attendance, although his 'glamour factor' is probably not quite as big as Beckhams.

Btw is ESPN a reliable source? I read today that Henry said nothing is clear yet.


----------



## ryebreadraz

lpioe said:


> Disagree.
> Beckham was great in the 2nd half of his last season at Madrid.
> At the start of the season Capello threw him out of the squad, at the end he was an undisputable starter.
> Henry is the opposite, he started this season as a starter and ended it not playing at all.
> 
> Anyway it's good news for Red Bull, I hope he can boost attendance, although his 'glamour factor' is probably not quite as big as Beckhams.
> 
> Btw is ESPN a reliable source? I read today that Henry said nothing is clear yet.


ESPN and Sports Illustrated have both reported it. While not official, that's two sources that are usually pretty reliable.


----------



## krudmonk

Wouldn't Henry be better with the Knicks?


----------



## massp88

Perhaps this will coincide with the rumors of Henry's fellow countryman and good friend Tony Parker going to the Knicks?


----------



## Scoots71

krudmonk said:


> Wouldn't Henry be better with the Knicks?


Hell, I would be better with the Knicks, and I got cut from my High School JV team back in the day...


----------



## weava

Melb_aviator said:


> But whats the reason for that? Lack of connection to the population? Bad marketing?
> 
> Theres always a reason why such things fail to take off.


um, because its soccer and this is the USA, its not that hard to figure out.


----------



## ryebreadraz

weava said:


> um, because its soccer and this is the USA, its not that hard to figure out.


How do you explain 35,000+ regularly in Seattle, 20,000 regularly in LA despite Beckham prices and no Beckham or nearly 30,000 in Philadelphia. Your comment is borne of ignorance because it has been made clear that when done right, soccer can succeed in a lot of cities.

The problem New York has is that their horrible management and play since 1996 has really turned off a lot of potential supporters. They're fighting an uphill battle against their history.


----------



## SouthmoreAvenue

ryebreadraz said:


> How do you explain 35,000+ regularly in Seattle, 20,000 regularly in LA despite Beckham prices and no Beckham or nearly 30,000 in Philadelphia. Your comment is borne of ignorance because it has been made clear that when done right, soccer can succeed in a lot of cities.
> 
> The problem New York has is that their horrible management and play since 1996 has really turned off a lot of potential supporters. They're fighting an uphill battle against their history.


Those averages aren't official yet, because the season isn't over yet, so the only real accurate results are from last year. Especially, if only considering the current attendance figures, one can see that there are 9 teams posting higher attendance(2010vs2009) compared to 6 posting lower attendance figures, a difference of only 3.

And in reguards to Philly's 30,000 that should be taken with a grain of salt, as usually, new franchises get some higher numbers compared to later seasons as fans just are checking the team out. I expect this number to go down considerably, due to the team sucking, although understandably sucking. 

With that said, I do think the US is starting to recognize the MLS as a legitimate league that will soon be on par with the NHL. Because right now, most only think there are 4 real major league sports.


----------



## GunnerJacket

dennis911 said:


> The Braves don't sellout playoff games. Come on, I agree with krudmonk.


In the later stages of a 14 year run where the team made the playoffs but everyone knew they wouldn't advance far, the fans voted with their feet and watched the game on TV. And again, we're talking one of MLB's largest venues, so it's not like they were drawing like a pre-season Pirates game. And they're hardly the only franchise that's had empty seats come post-season, even the Yankees have encountered that situation. Hell I remember when the Braves started their run with the playoffs against Pittsburgh and seeing Three Rivers with empty sections. Dodgers fans are infamous for their arrive late/leave early culture, and pretty much any team not meeting expectations suffers at the gate. Thus, if the Braves were drawing 20k for a projected World Series finalist you'd have a point, but that hasn't been the case. 

I'm not saying Atlanta has the best fans, by far that isn't the case. But making it out like it's the only big city with a fickle fanbase is rather ignorant when you look at the attendance/capacity ratios of many other cities. 

I'll stop here to avoid further threadjacking. Cheers. :cheers:


----------



## dennis911

GunnerJacket said:


> In the later stages of a 14 year run where the team made the playoffs but everyone knew they wouldn't advance far, the fans voted with their feet and watched the game on TV. And again, we're talking one of MLB's largest venues, so it's not like they were drawing like a pre-season Pirates game. And they're hardly the only franchise that's had empty seats come post-season, even the Yankees have encountered that situation. Hell I remember when the Braves started their run with the playoffs against Pittsburgh and seeing Three Rivers with empty sections. Dodgers fans are infamous for their arrive late/leave early culture, and pretty much any team not meeting expectations suffers at the gate. Thus, if the Braves were drawing 20k for a projected World Series finalist you'd have a point, but that hasn't been the case.
> 
> I'm not saying Atlanta has the best fans, by far that isn't the case. But making it out like it's the only big city with a fickle fanbase is rather ignorant when you look at the attendance/capacity ratios of many other cities.
> 
> I'll stop here to avoid further threadjacking. Cheers. :cheers:


Hey, you were respectful, all I can say is fair enough.


----------



## Nexis

Does Boston have any plans for a Stadium?


----------



## krudmonk

Nexis said:


> Does Boston have any plans for a Stadium?


I wish. That game last Saturday was dead. The turf is unpredictable and the crowds are unenthused.


----------



## massp88

Nexis said:


> Does Boston have any plans for a Stadium?


There is a lot of speculation about the Revolution building a SSS in Somerville, MA, which is right next to Boston. And there is also the possibility they built one right next to Gillette. The Revolution really need a smaller 20-25,000 seat stadium for themselves.


----------



## nyrmetros

Red Bull Arena has just banned streamers........... great........... :bash:


----------



## Nexis

One would think Boston would have a great team or Stadium in the works. I remember during the last World Cup , the city or someone set up giant Screens and 1000s gathered to watch. The City has a great diverse population , that would probably be in favor a team of moderate to best standards.


----------



## GunnerJacket

nyrmetros said:


> Red Bull Arena has just banned streamers........... great........... :bash:


(refraining from jokes...) They give a reason why?



Nexis said:


> One would think Boston would have a great team or Stadium in the works. I remember during the last World Cup , the city or someone set up giant Screens and 1000s gathered to watch. The City has a great diverse population , that would probably be in favor a team of moderate to best standards


It's less the community and more the owners and the local politicos, which are not the most amenable for such projects right now. I think the Krafts are simply thinking new expenses = new expenses, rather then seeing them as possible investments. At the least they could invest some energy in building the fan base a la Seattle, and improve the gameday events and atmosphere to entice more/larger supporters groups.


----------



## metros11

The Revs have stated more than once that they want a new stadium in an urban location, however they are not in the hurry to leave Gillette. The situation has to be right for them, meaning they'll want a site with access to public transportation, and probably publicly funded. So yeah, maybe in 10 years.


----------



## massp88

metros11 said:


> The Revs have stated more than once that they want a new stadium in an urban location, however they are not in the hurry to leave Gillette. The situation has to be right for them, meaning they'll want a site with access to public transportation, and probably publicly funded. So yeah, maybe in 10 years.


Bob Kraft built Gillette without any public help. Tax money was used for infrastructure improvements, but that's it. I am not so sure he is going to be willing to build a SSS for the Revolution. As you mentioned, they will wait for public help, which is not going to happen any time soon.


----------



## Nexis

Would DC be a good place for a Soccer Stadium / team?


----------



## en1044

MattXG said:


> Wait, what? FedEX field just opened in 1997...they want to build another new stadium now?


FedEx Field is a piece of shit with shoddy construction built to spite the DC government in a very short amount of time and its in the middle of nowhere.

Yes, the Redskins need a new stadium.


----------



## massp88

Topher51 said:


> At the risk of getting skewered, I am going to ask what may be a dumb question anyway.
> 
> *What are the challenges one would face if trying to design a stadium that is as ideal as possible for the MLS and NFL? *
> 
> I ask b/c DC United is realistically not going to get their own soccer specific stadium anytime soon, so I was wondering what could be done to make the long rumored new Redskins stadium at the RFK site as player and fan friendly as possible. That one probably wont be built for 5-10 years either, but no matter how good they are, the 'skins will always be the top dog in this town and can/will get anything they want.
> 
> My thoughts:
> 
> 1) Natural grass is a must, but even if they build a retractable roof stadium, now a days that is pretty common. A retractable roof stadium ought to make all the "covered seating" people happy too, haha!
> 
> 2) The field dimensions differ significantly, but considering that required sideline area for the NFL is much bigger than for soccer, I would think the overall required areas would be pretty similar. If it was tight in the corners like at Cowboys Stadium, maybe they could put retractable seats there to make it easier on the player taking the corner kicks.
> 
> 3) It seems to me that many Euro stadiums place more emphasis on putting fans at the end of the field, where in the NFL sideline seats are preferred. However, SSS in the MLS seem to emphasize sideline seating too.
> 
> 4) Is there a preferred lower bowl size for soccer? Would it be possible to put 20,000 fans into this stadium and have them as close to the action as at say, the Red Bull Stadium, or is that impossible?
> 
> Please add to this list or comment on anything I thought of. Thanks for you input.


There is no way to accommodate both. The NFL stadium would have to be at least 55-60,000 seats. No MLS currently, or in the next 10 years, will consistently draw enough people to warrant a stadium in that range.

I think the Red Bull Arena should be a model that all MLS teams follow. The only complaint I have is that the stands are too high off the pitch, they need to be brought down lower. 

Soccer stadiums in Europe, in general, have fans right next to the pitch. As in fans will toss the ball back to the player on throw ins.


----------



## en1044

massp88 said:


> There is no way to accommodate both. The NFL stadium would have to be at least 55-60,000 seats. No MLS currently, or in the next 10 years, will consistently draw enough people to warrant a stadium in that range.
> 
> I think the Red Bull Arena should be a model that all MLS teams follow. The only complaint I have is that the stands are too high off the pitch, they need to be brought down lower.
> 
> Soccer stadiums in Europe, in general, have fans right next to the pitch. As in fans will toss the ball back to the player on throw ins.


I once saw a stadium design for something like this, though I have no idea where I saw it. It involved a lower bowl that sat about 25-30k that was completely dug into the ground. The second deck was at regular ground level, was only on the sidelines and was completely retractable, 15k seats on each side. For MLS games the seats would retract and large banners featuring anything the MLS team wanted (players, championship banners, etc.

All together it seemed like a pretty good idea. Whether or not it is actually capable of being built is another story but I did like it.


----------



## SJAnfield

massp88 said:


> There is no way to accommodate both. The NFL stadium would have to be at least 55-60,000 seats. No MLS currently, or in the next 10 years, will consistently draw enough people to warrant a stadium in that range.


Seattle maybe


----------



## Alx-D

Topher51 said:


> At the risk of getting skewered, I am going to ask what may be a dumb question anyway.
> 
> *What are the challenges one would face if trying to design a stadium that is as ideal as possible for the MLS and NFL? *
> 
> I ask b/c DC United is realistically not going to get their own soccer specific stadium anytime soon, so I was wondering what could be done to make the long rumored new Redskins stadium at the RFK site as player and fan friendly as possible. That one probably wont be built for 5-10 years either, but no matter how good they are, the 'skins will always be the top dog in this town and can/will get anything they want.
> 
> My thoughts:
> 
> 1) Natural grass is a must, but even if they build a retractable roof stadium, now a days that is pretty common. A retractable roof stadium ought to make all the "covered seating" people happy too, haha!
> 
> 2) The field dimensions differ significantly, but considering that required sideline area for the NFL is much bigger than for soccer, I would think the overall required areas would be pretty similar. If it was tight in the corners like at Cowboys Stadium, maybe they could put retractable seats there to make it easier on the player taking the corner kicks.
> 
> 3) It seems to me that many Euro stadiums place more emphasis on putting fans at the end of the field, where in the NFL sideline seats are preferred. However, SSS in the MLS seem to emphasize sideline seating too.
> 
> 4) Is there a preferred lower bowl size for soccer? Would it be possible to put 20,000 fans into this stadium and have them as close to the action as at say, the Red Bull Stadium, or is that impossible?
> 
> Please add to this list or comment on anything I thought of. Thanks for you input.


This with grass:









Of course the redskins would want at least 90,000 seats so even the lower bowl would likely be close to 40,000 (in other words, way to damn big for MLS). Another issue would be the cost of rent. It wouldn't make economical sense unless the redskins owner bought DCU.


----------



## Dexter Morgan

en1044 said:


> FedEx Field is a piece of shit with shoddy construction built to spite the DC government in a very short amount of time and its in the middle of nowhere.
> 
> Yes, the Redskins need a new stadium.


They don't deserve one. What an embarrassment that would be.


----------



## en1044

Dexter Morgan said:


> They don't deserve one. What an embarrassment that would be.


Why dont they deserve one? They need one.


----------



## hngcm

Cuz their stadium is only 13 years old.


----------



## en1044

hngcm said:


> Cuz their stadium is only 13 years old.


Not really an excuse. Its a complete piece of crap through and through.


----------



## Calvin W

en1044 said:


> Not really an excuse. Its a complete piece of crap through and through.


Well then I guess they wasted their money building it, tough for them.

DC needs a soccer stadium first and foremost, maybe in 10 years or so the Redskins might find support for a new stadium.


----------



## SIC

massp88 said:


> *Soccer stadiums in Europe*, in general, have fans right next to the pitch. As in fans will toss the ball back to the player on throw ins.


You mean, England. Stadiums in Germany and Spain don't have people sitting below the level of playing surface. Instead they place them, where you know....they can actually see the whole field. :lol:

Anyhoo, have you even gone to an MLS stadium? People toss the ball back to players all the time. My friend did it last week, she threw it back to the opposing GK to hurry his ass up.


----------



## massp88

SIC said:


> You mean, England. Stadiums in Germany and Spain don't have people sitting below the level of playing surface. Instead they place them, where you know....they can actually see the whole field. :lol:
> 
> Anyhoo, have you even gone to an MLS stadium? People toss the ball back to players all the time. My friend did it last week, she threw it back to the opposing GK to hurry his ass up.


I am not saying below the playing surface. I am talking about having the front for of seats either at, or slightly above the pitch.



SJAnfield said:


> Seattle maybe


Seattle, or any MLS team for that matter, will never consistently sell over 50,000 tickets a match. At least not in the next 10 years.


----------



## Dexter Morgan

en1044 said:


> Why dont they deserve one? They need one.


You know the saying...you've made your bed and now lie in it. Well that works here.


----------



## en1044

Dexter Morgan said:


> You know the saying...you've made your bed and now lie in it. Well that works here.


What? The previous ownership? The Redskins have a horrible stadium built by their previous owner.

Sorry, but that doesnt work here. They need a new one.


----------



## KingmanIII

en1044 said:


> What? The previous ownership? The Redskins have a horrible stadium built by their previous owner.
> 
> Sorry, but that doesnt work here. They need a new one.


Would it be at all feasible (or even possible) to deconstruct JKC, beam-by-beam, and build it elsewhere for another team who might want or need it? I know they do it for rollercoasters...


----------



## SJAnfield

massp88 said:


> Seattle, or any MLS team for that matter, will never consistently sell over 50,000 tickets a match. At least not in the next 10 years.


I don't know. I had the pleasure of traveling up to Seattle last weekend to see them play the Quakes, and what I saw blew my mind. The game day atmosphere was something I've never seen for an MLS match before. The team have made their games a ritual for people out there. All the bars and restaurants downtown are packed with green. You see more Sounders merchandise on people’s backs and posters in shop windows than the Mariners and Seahawks combined. Seattle has made the Sounders a part of their city culture.

Honestly, it was one of the most impressive sporting events I’ve had the pleasure to witness. If the Sounders removed the tarps, I’d bet they would sell out Qwest every game, no problem. The team is a cellar dweller at the moment too, but the crowd filled the stadium and didn’t leave till the 90 minutes were up. It makes going back to 10K-semi-passioned Buck Shaw this weekend a bit of a non-event.


----------



## weava

KingmanIII said:


> Would it be at all feasible (or even possible) to deconstruct JKC, beam-by-beam, and build it elsewhere for another team who might want or need it? I know they do it for rollercoasters...


The majority of the stadium is concrete, not steel like a rollar coaster


----------



## en1044

KingmanIII said:


> Would it be at all feasible (or even possible) to deconstruct JKC, beam-by-beam, and build it elsewhere for another team who might want or need it? I know they do it for rollercoasters...


Probably not. Its in bad shape as it is.

I've heard an idea being floated (though it probably wont happen) that they could remove the top two decks, leaving the lower bowl, and using it as DC United's stadium.

Highly unlikely, but could save some money.


----------



## Topher51

My question was meant more to determine if there were any prohibitive design issues with designing a stadium that was ideal for both the NFL and MLS. 

The motivation/need for one is a different issue b/c that is all driven by money and desire. It is completely irrelevant whether or not the Redskins deserve a new stadium. They can get one and DCU can't.

Things that are clear to me:
1) FedEX is very far from the majority of fans in DC and VA. I live inside the beltway and it takes almost an hour to get there without traffic. Yes, there are fans in Maryland, but I'd bet the majority of fans who can afford to go to the games are centered far west of FedEX. 
2) It is on the extreme fringe of mass transportation lines and the closest station is over a mile away. 
3) It is pretty shabby compared to other NFL venues I've been to and has absolutely no character. It is the big box retail store of the NFL. By comparison, the Falcons are currently lobbying for a new stadium too and the Georgia Dome (built in 1992) is WAAAAAAAY nicer than FedEX. It's also smack in the middle of Atlanta and was substantially renovated less than 2 years ago. 
4) Dan Snyder is one of the richest owners in the NFL and the Redskins are the 2nd most valuable franchise. He has repeatedly shown he is not afraid to shell out big bucks for shiny new toys.
5) DC wants the Redskins back and would bend over backwards tomorrow, if asked.

My point is, DC United has no sway here, but could ride the *******'s coat tails fairly easily. 

The stadium could obviously draw 90k+ for 10 NFL games a year, Super Bowls, World Cup games, a couple of DCU matches against top flight Euro clubs a year, US national team games... then be converted for the 20-25k fans that DCU could hope to draw for regular season games. On top of that, with a retractable roof and maybe a field (i.e. the Caridnals Dome), they could even use it for conventions an concerts. 

There are more than enough big events in DC in a given year to justify building something like the Cowboy's new stadium, I just wanted to know if DCU could play there and it be made to be an outstanding venue for them.

Take, for instance, this picture of Cowboys Stadium. Now, for a standard DCU game, if everything was tarped off besides the two lowest decks and level of suites, what about that could be improved to make it a better place to watch/play a match?


----------



## canarywondergod

I'll provide an English perspective as we're obviously the experts at association football (which I will call soccer for sake of argument even though it pains me!) with the Americans being the experts at american football. There are one or two major differences with one being the layout of stadiums.

With Soccer the "endzone stands" are often where the most loyal hardened fans are, often designated "home only" compared to American Football stadiums, given the nature of the game, where the sidelines are most important as they offer the best views. Therefore priority lies in different areas of the stadiums or if anything the endzone stands are just as large as the rest of the stadium. 

Soccer stadiums also hold a minimum of 19 games a season in England, compared to 8 for American Football. This is often higher due to different trophies that can be one. For example one soccer team Fulham hosted around 30 games in one season. As a result the catering facilites are much more enclosed, again to protect agaisnt the weather but also because they are much more widely used.

Another factor is a roof. This holds a few purposes, one being the comfort of spectators but also it has an impact on pitches. Unlike American Football, the soccer pitch cannot be icy or snowy as the game is therefore unplayable. Having a more covered stadium means less snow gets onto the pitch. It is one reason why so many pitches in the top leagues are heated underneath, to melt ice and snow away. 

Similarities run on the corporate side of things were the real money is made, a stadium needs good corporate facilties and plenty of club seats as well as personal boxes.

Some good examples of both NFL and Football stadiums would be Reliant Stadium, New Meadowlands (if it had a roof), Lucas Oil, Quest Field and University of Phoenix Stadium. But still it is better for teams to build specific stadiums as in the US, for at least at the moment, it would be hard pressed for a MLS team to sell out 60,000 every week. The Red Bull Arena is pretty much a perfect MLS stadium and indeed would fit over in England very well too.


----------



## en1044

Topher51 said:


> Now, for a standard DCU game, if everything was tarped off besides the two lowest decks and level of suites, what about that could be improved to make it a better place to watch/play a match?


The rent. If a MLS team plays in a situation like that, they have to make sure they get an even cut of the profits. That is not always the case.


----------



## nyrmetros

canarywondergod said:


> I'll provide an English perspective as we're obviously the experts at association football (which I will call soccer for sake of argument even though it pains me!) with the Americans being the experts at american football. There are one or two major differences with one being the layout of stadiums.
> 
> With Soccer the "endzone stands" are often where the most loyal hardened fans are, often designated "home only" compared to American Football stadiums, given the nature of the game, where the sidelines are most important as they offer the best views. Therefore priority lies in different areas of the stadiums or if anything the endzone stands are just as large as the rest of the stadium.
> 
> Soccer stadiums also hold a minimum of 19 games a season in England, compared to 8 for American Football. This is often higher due to different trophies that can be one. For example one soccer team Fulham hosted around 30 games in one season. As a result the catering facilites are much more enclosed, again to protect agaisnt the weather but also because they are much more widely used.
> 
> Another factor is a roof. This holds a few purposes, one being the comfort of spectators but also it has an impact on pitches. Unlike American Football, the soccer pitch cannot be icy or snowy as the game is therefore unplayable. Having a more covered stadium means less snow gets onto the pitch. It is one reason why so many pitches in the top leagues are heated underneath, to melt ice and snow away.
> 
> Similarities run on the corporate side of things were the real money is made, a stadium needs good corporate facilties and plenty of club seats as well as personal boxes.
> 
> Some good examples of both NFL and Football stadiums would be Reliant Stadium, New Meadowlands (if it had a roof), Lucas Oil, Quest Field and University of Phoenix Stadium. But still it is better for teams to build specific stadiums as in the US, for at least at the moment, it would be hard pressed for a MLS team to sell out 60,000 every week. The Red Bull Arena is pretty much a perfect MLS stadium and indeed would fit over in England very well too.


thanx for your insight!


----------



## nyrmetros

any pics from the USA vs Turkey game in Philly ?


----------



## buy




----------



## buy

*yessss*










*yessssssss*


----------



## buy




----------



## hngcm

Nice!

What was the attendance?


----------



## metros11

hngcm said:


> Nice!
> 
> What was the attendance?


55K

This was my first time at the Linc, and I must admit, as far as the stadium design goes I was totally unimpressed.


----------



## Topher51

metros11 said:


> 55K
> 
> This was my first time at the Linc, and I must admit, as far as the stadium design goes I was totally unimpressed.


I've been there a couple of times and have to disagree. I think it is a great venue, despite my contempt for the Eagles and their fans, haha! I've never seen a soccer match there though. 

What specifically didn't you like about it? (as a follow up to my question earlier about the difficulties of designing a NFL and MLS friendly venue) 

From the pictures, it looks like the pitch is a bit far from the end zone seating, but other than that, nothing is too obvious.


----------



## JYDA

With respect to soccer the Linc isn't ideal. The angled seating in the corners pinches the field dimensions making it too narrow for a full sized soccer field.


----------



## slipperydog

JYDA said:


> With respect to soccer the Linc isn't ideal. The angled seating in the corners pinches the field dimensions making it too narrow for a full sized soccer field.


Doesn't look too narrow to me.


----------



## JYDA

slipperydog said:


> Doesn't look too narrow to me.


It's 67 yards wide for soccer with the corner flags still crammed up against the wall. Regulation is 75 yards. 

It's the most common problem with respect to playing soccer in NFL stadiums but most new stadiums are built with either wide corners (LP Field, Bank of America Stadium) or removable corners (new meadowlands, Reliant staium) to accomodate legal soccer dimensions.


----------



## slipperydog

JYDA said:


> It's 67 yards wide for soccer with the corner flags still crammed up against the wall. Regulation is 75 yards.
> 
> It's the most common problem with respect to playing soccer in NFL stadiums but most new stadiums are built with either wide corners (LP Field, Bank of America Stadium) or removable corners (new meadowlands, Reliant staium) to accomodate legal soccer dimensions.


What other stadiums on the bid are too narrow? Is this something FIFA is going to accept?


----------



## JYDA

slipperydog said:


> What other stadiums on the bid are too narrow? Is this something FIFA is going to accept?


The most significant is the new cowboys stadium. It's easy to solve when compared to other countries' burdens of having to finance entirely new stadiums. You just have to cut out sections of the corner seating. This was done to a few stadiums like the Rose Bowl and the Cotton Bowl for the 94 world cup. 

cotton bowl


----------



## weava

the cotton bowl filled in those corners with seats during the expansion


----------



## JYDA

weava said:


> the cotton bowl filled in those corners with seats during the expansion


They're filled with removable seating. Mexico and FC Dallas played a doubleheader there last fall and the corner seating was taken out.


----------



## nyrmetros

thanx for the pics from Philly


----------



## matthemod

Maybe it's just because i've gotten used to seeing football/soccer being played in stadiums suited for it, but i can really see how the Linc is too narrow for the sport.


----------



## rantanamo

JYDA said:


> The most significant is the new cowboys stadium. It's easy to solve when compared to other countries' burdens of having to finance entirely new stadiums. You just have to cut out sections of the corner seating. This was done to a few stadiums like the Rose Bowl and the Cotton Bowl for the 94 world cup.
> 
> cotton bowl


Thank you for saying this. The narrow field stuff is just lame and easily solveable for most stadiums. The actual size of field is greatly exaggerated by soccer fans it seems. All NFL stadiums are wide enough at the mid-field (Its actually NFL regulation for the coaches box and player area) and simply need retractable corners like the Cotton Bowl. Cowboys Stadium would be the oddest to "fix" but it does have the advantage that the seating bowl actually starts further back than other tight cornered stadiums. Each suite has a wide patio area extending well beyond the actual beginning of the lower bowl. For the WC a rectangle field tray could easily be built that overlaps these corner patios, leaving the actual suite in tact and plenty of corner width. Much cheaper than nations having to build entire new stadiums. Its pretty much a non-issue.


----------



## flierfy

rantanamo said:


> Thank you for saying this. The narrow field stuff is just lame and easily solveable for most stadiums. The actual size of field is greatly exaggerated by soccer fans it seems. All NFL stadiums are wide enough at the mid-field (Its actually NFL regulation for the coaches box and player area) and simply need retractable corners like the Cotton Bowl.


Such a solution is rubbish. It might be possible to place a full width pitch into these stadiums. You just can't provide an unrestricted view this way as there is no seat from which you can see the whole pitch. It would be much better to lift the playing field two or three metres to gain the necessary width without obstructing views.


----------



## RaiderATO

flierfy said:


> Such a solution is rubbish. It might be possible to place a full width pitch into these stadiums. You just can't provide an unrestricted view this way as there is no seat from which you can see the whole pitch. It would be much better to lift the playing field two or three metres to gain the necessary width without obstructing views.


Where could you not see the whole field? Even from the cut-out corners you can see the opposite goal and opposite inside corner.

But, this isn't an issue with the BIG stadiums. Most/all of the newer ones have been made with retractable corner seating, or are simply wide enough to host FIFA regulation matches.


----------



## eMKay

All High Stadium! Buffalo, NY. Built in 1926 with a capacity of 20,000 renovated in 2006 and reduced to 4,000. We went today to catch FC Buffalo handily defeat New Jersey (NPSL, Amateurs). Amazing little facility, usually used for high school football but makes an excellent venue for soccer, and could be an excellent venue all the way up to USL 1 level. This stadium was also used in The Natural, a movie starring Robert Redford, it was a stand in for Wrigley Field. One thing the low roof does, it sure makes things a lot louder! Makes 200 people sound like 1000.


----------



## eMKay

How about some action shots? The quality of play is very high, these are mostly local college players. or what really amounts to a local college all star team from each region where there are teams. They are unpaid which allows them to still compete under NCAA rules for their colleges. The head coach is also the head coach of Canisius College's team. 




























Hey! How'd that get back there?


----------



## rantanamo

flierfy said:


> Such a solution is rubbish. It might be possible to place a full width pitch into these stadiums. You just can't provide an unrestricted view this way as there is no seat from which you can see the whole pitch. It would be much better to lift the playing field two or three metres to gain the necessary width without obstructing views.


Why do soccer fans over do it with how big the pitch is? A modern NFL stadium is required to have enough width from 20 to 20 due to its own regulations for team and coaching areas. Retracting the corners does not restrict any views in these modern stadia. Perhaps in the Rose Bowl and Cotton Bowl, but not in places like Reliant or Lucas Oil. It certainly wouldn't in Cowboys stadium if they simply put covered the corner field level suites. Places like U of P don't have the narrow corners. Again, simple solution compared to spending billions on white elephants.


----------



## nyrmetros

now that's a roof !!


----------



## koolio

That is a cool stadium. Where exactly is it located? Might give it a visit next time I'm down in Buffalo.


----------



## eMKay

koolio said:


> That is a cool stadium. Where exactly is it located? Might give it a visit next time I'm down in Buffalo.


It's behind Bennett High School on Main Street, 2885 Main. FC Buffalo has home games June 19,20, July 3rd, anf July 11th. All at 3pm except July 11th due to the world cup, that game will be 7pm


----------



## nyrmetros

that stand has a very english look to it


----------



## Luke80

^^ Except the bleachers. I think it's the sloping roof and pillars that do it.


----------



## nyrmetros

yea minus the bleachers part.


----------



## soup or man

PPL Park (home of the Philadelphia Union) opens in a week. And I must say it looks very nice.


----------



## SJAnfield

The first N in union looks weird.


----------



## SVN2007

PPL Park is small but really nice.


----------



## Archbishop

Didn't they make it so it would be easily expandable to like 25 or 30K? It is pretty small, but they will keep demand up for sure!


----------



## ryebreadraz

Archbishop said:


> Didn't they make it so it would be easily expandable to like 25 or 30K? It is pretty small, but they will keep demand up for sure!


I know it's definitely expandable. Don't quote me on how high that expansion can go, but I believe the number was ~34,000.


----------



## RaiderATO

SJAnfield said:


> The first N in union looks weird.


I think the photo was stitched together right there. Scroll up a couple pics and the 2nd N looks wacky.


----------



## JYDA

I keep hearing PPL park is expandable. Does anybody know exactly how the expansion would happen (where the extra seating would be added)? I'm guessing they'd add seating at the south end?


----------



## nyrmetros

Anyone have pics from the USA Rugby game at Red Bull Arena last night ?


----------



## BoulderGrad

Portland has their seat selector ap up. Gives a good view of what PGE park will look like when the renovation is done:

http://pgepark.io-media.com/


----------



## Commandant

BoulderGrad said:


> Portland has their seat selector ap up. Gives a good view of what PGE park will look like when the renovation is done:
> 
> http://pgepark.io-media.com/











Cool!


----------



## JYDA

RaiderATO said:


> What is inferior about the modern rubber-infill artificial turf when it comes to soccer?


It's impossible to fully replicate the speed and bounce of the ball on grass.


----------



## eMKay

Nothing is impossible. artificial turf when it becomes the norm, will be more consistent than grass, even if a bit different. Future players will get used to it.


----------



## RaiderATO

JYDA said:


> It's impossible to fully replicate the speed and bounce of the ball on grass.


Isn't that the same with all sports? Football and baseball teams go from one to the other without missing a beat.

In most cases grass seems preferable, but I imagine the impact is smaller than most think. The one-time investment and little cost of upkeep is probably pretty appealing to MLS clubs.


----------



## MS20

JYDA said:


> Wigan? Their pitch was a mine field last season. Reading and Cardiff have had similar nightmares sharing with Rugby.


Which is exactly why football clubs are getting tough on stadium sharing. Personally, I don't wish to ever see any smudged markings in a Premier League game, let alone a dismantled turf because of ground sharing. Single sport specific stadiums please (with NFL being the exception due to such low activity annually).
Cant the FA please stop hosting rugby at Wembley? I mean, sod off and build your own stadiums. I understand they have money to recoup, but christ almighty.


----------



## JYDA

RaiderATO said:


> Isn't that the same with all sports? Football and baseball teams go from one to the other without missing a beat.
> 
> In most cases grass seems preferable, but I imagine the impact is smaller than most think. The one-time investment and little cost of upkeep is probably pretty appealing to MLS clubs.


I specifically mentioned the speed and bounce of the ball because those are things that don't apply in football and baseball. You can make the case for judging a ground ball in baseball but that's it. Aside from that, the surface does not change the way a game is played in baseball and football. It DOES change the way the game is played in soccer. The fact the ball is played almost entirely along the ground in soccer is the unique difference that makes the surface so important to how the game is played.


----------



## krudmonk

RaiderATO said:


> Isn't that the same with all sports? Football and baseball teams go from one to the other without missing a beat.


They *don't* skip a beat. Baseball largely phased out turf and football players still bemoan artificial surfaces. Sure, they've improved, but still.


MS20 said:


> Cant the FA please stop hosting rugby at Wembley? I mean, sod off and build your own stadiums. I understand they have money to recoup, but christ almighty.


The Challenge Cup final is pretty much the only rugby there, and football is rougher on turf anyway. The idiot fans whose teams share grounds don't know what they're talking about.


----------



## KingmanIII

JYDA said:


> The biggest problem is that Portland is a very wet city. It's hard enough to share with football under ideal conditions but once it rains a lot it's nearly impossible. A football game on grass in the rain quickly turns into a mud bath.


The rainy season in the Pacific Northwest is from about mid-autumn to mid-spring -- outside of that it's pretty dry.


----------



## JYDA

eMKay said:


> Nothing is impossible. artificial turf when it becomes the norm, will be more consistent than grass, even if a bit different. Future players will get used to it.


Artificial surfaces are ONLY making gains in soccer leagues where the climatic conditions are so extreme that the clubs lacking resources must choose between the lesser of two evils (an artificial surface or a frozen mine field). These would be countries like Norway, Sweden, Russia, and Switzerland.

Artificial surfaces will never become the norm at the highest professional level because grass technology keeps advancing. It's not like 20 years ago where grass would suffer when the seasons changed. Grass surfaces in the top leagues in Europe are better than ever through the winter months thanks to innovations like undersoil heating, suction drainage, and artificial sunlight. As long as you're not sharing with a Rugby/Football team it's possible to keep the grass pristine.


----------



## Walbanger

MS20 said:


> Cant the FA please stop hosting rugby at Wembley? I mean, sod off and build your own stadiums. I understand they have money to recoup, but christ almighty.


Why, Rugby League has a strong historical connection to Wembley, why shouldn't they be allowed to keep their traditions going.


----------



## nomarandlee

JYDA said:


> I specifically mentioned the speed and bounce of the ball because those are things that don't apply in football and baseball. You can make the case for judging a ground ball in baseball but that's it. Aside from that, the surface does not change the way a game is played in baseball and football. It DOES change the way the game is played in soccer. The fact the ball is played almost entirely along the ground in soccer is the unique difference that makes the surface so important to how the game is played.


You don't know of what you speak. Baseball is probably the most effected sport in regards to artificial or grass surface.

Ozzie Smith was aided by the artificial turf at Busch Stadium where he won a slew of gold gloves. Would he have nearly as many Gold Gloves playing at Wrigley Field where the grass back in his day was notoriously high? 

Or would those speedsters who bunt for hits rather hit at a park with artificial turf where a ball bounces right to a fielder or high real grass that eats up bunted balls.

Even in American football it would be hard pressed to say that the difference doesn't matter significantly. If you are a speed receiver who depends on hard cuts or are a cut back running back you will be greatly aided by the artificial grass (even if has the potential of cutting down time on your career). High real grass is more of an equalizer aiding the slower of foot.


----------



## JYDA

KingmanIII said:


> The rainy season in the Pacific Northwest is from about mid-autumn to mid-spring -- outside of that it's pretty dry.


Both sports will be playing in autumn.


----------



## KingmanIII

El Mariachi said:


> agreed. They are in great shape and are not morbidly obese.
> 
> BJ Raji--340 lbs.
> 
> 
> 
> Ryan Pickett-340 lbs.


Ndamukong Suh and Gerald McCoy would've been better examples, IMO (both are around 300 lbs/136kg/21.5 st):


















(to stay somewhat on-topic, Suh used to play soccer )


----------



## JYDA

nomarandlee said:


> You don't know of what you speak. Baseball is probably the most effected sport in regards to artificial or grass surface.
> 
> Ozzie Smith was aided by the artificial turf at Busch Stadiums where he won a slew of gold gloves. Would have nearly as many at Wrigley Field where the real grass back in his day was notoriously high?
> 
> Or those that are speedsters and who bunt for hits which they would rather hit at given the choice between an artificial where a ball bounces right to a fielder or a high real grass that eats up bunted balls.
> 
> Even in American football it would be hard pressed to say that the difference doesn't matter significantly. If you are a speed receiver who depends on hard cuts or cut back running back you will be greatly aided by the artificial grass (even if has the potential of cutting down time on your career). High real grass is more of an equalizer aiding the slower of foot.


Clutching at straws


----------



## slipperydog

JYDA said:


> Artificial surfaces are ONLY making gains in soccer leagues where the climatic conditions are so extreme that the clubs lacking resources must choose between the lesser of two evils (an artificial surface or a frozen mine field). These would be countries like Norway, Sweden, Russia, and Switzerland.
> 
> Artificial surfaces will never become the norm at the highest professional level because grass technology keeps advancing. It's not like 20 years ago where grass would suffer when the seasons changed. Grass surfaces in the top leagues in Europe are better than ever through the winter months thanks to innovations like undersoil heating, suction drainage, and artificial sunlight. As long as you're not sharing with a Rugby/Football team it's possible to keep the grass pristine.


I'll be honest, I see the Stamford Bridge pitch on tv quite a bit. Not pretty


----------



## RaiderATO

krudmonk said:


> Baseball largely phased out turf and football players still bemoan artificial surfaces.


Rogers Centre and the relatively new Tropicana Field still have it. And its not the Astroturf of old, this is field turf that responds very much like grass does. More and more college stadiums are removing grass and installing it. Its cost-effective and rebounds quicker after rain than grass (without extra costly drainage systems).

As for NFL, more and more FieldTurf installations are happening and these fields cluster at the top of player's field rankings.

Doesn't the way grass reacts change from location to location? Type of soil, type of grass, height, moisture, etc. I find it hard to believe that grass is more consistent than the artificial surface.

I'm not going to argue that FieldTurf is superior to grass when it comes to the spirit of any sport. I will say that it's worth consideration when making the investment in a new stadium. It is consistent, comfortable on the players, possibly cheaper long-term, and more durable.


----------



## Luke80

eMKay said:


> Nothing is impossible. artificial turf when it becomes the norm, will be more consistent than grass, even if a bit different. *Future players will get used to it.*


They shouldn't have to. If the US is going to fully embrace football then it can't cut corners/compromise - if all future stadia cater for full size pitches and grass then it sends a very strong message to FIFA and the rest of the world (future WC and all that...)


----------



## eMKay

I'm talking about the rest of the world


----------



## Luke80

eMKay said:


> I'm talking about the rest of the world


Again I ask why should they have to?


----------



## SIC

slipperydog said:


> Really? Well Houston Dynamo is sharing with Univ. Houston right now with grass. And they are going to share their new stadium with TSU football, and they are using grass. I'm really disappointed in all the turf fields in MLS.


It's the worst field in MLS, it's worse than fieldturf. In late summer it's like a bad municipal park pitch, covered in sand. It's a disgrace, a bigger one than playing on fieldturf like they do in qwest.

But anyway, the real reason they're using FT to start off.....is because the city of portland is too cheap to invest in a proper grass pitch. Which cost about 3-4 million dollars. They also are full of people who think Portland won't draw more than 10k people per game. 
The Fire used to share soldier field with the chicago bears and they would relay the pitch constantly. It was expensive, but the city of Chicago did it to ensure a grass field for the stadium. It wasn't always in the best conditions, but it was never as bad as it is in houston.

Believe me, after a year or two of packing that stadium. They'll probably put up their own money like TFC did, to pay for grass. The city will have to let them.

But really, these are the realities of a soccer team in this country. We're treated like 2nd-class citizens, even in our own stadiums sometimes. Theres obstacles that no one in Europe realizes. These things aren't just handed to us on a silver platter, fans of the sport to have to work for it. It's very easy to just say bs like "if the us wants to show commitment to the sport it will do ________". 

Because, it's not like teams or fans don't want to have the same facilities as Europe does. But it's not as easy wanting to have something. We live in the real world and we sometimes have to make do. At least in the short term.

Anyway, I think theres pictures of vancouver's temp stadium floating around. They should send it to DC, when they're done with it.


----------



## brewerfan386

^^
good post


----------



## DimitriB

whoops, I was on vacation and missed the page


----------



## weava

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/06/23/2039517/kansas-city-wizards-new-soccer.html


----------



## metros11

Luke80 said:


> 2/3rds of that look epic! Still, I guess the small roof on the near sideline stand leaves room for expansion.
> 
> If it ends up like that, best MLS stadium by a mile!


I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but seriously?


----------



## eMKay

Luke80 said:


> Again I ask why should they have to?


They really might not have to, as technology improves eventually artificial turf will perform just like real grass. Then you will have consistent play and much lower maintenance costs.


----------



## Luke80

metros11 said:


> I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but seriously?


Yes seriously. Which do you prefer? NY is nice but a tad boring. I'm not including NFL stadiums because they don't count.



eMKay said:


> They really might not have to, as technology improves eventually artificial turf will perform just like real grass. Then you will have consistent play and much lower maintenance costs.


I hope we reach that point, but if we ever do it will be years away yet.


----------



## JYDA

eMKay said:


> They really might not have to, as technology improves eventually artificial turf will perform just like real grass. Then you will have consistent play and much lower maintenance costs.


It's not that simple. Matching playing conditions is only part of the equation. It's also aesthetics and authenticity and that can NEVER be replicated. 

Why do you think college and NFL teams (even green bay) bother with grass at all (it's more than just player preference)? Why do you think grass nearly disappeared from baseball but has made an enormous comeback despite major advances in synthetic surface technology? It's the same reason retro ballparks are all over the place and wrigley field still bothers with ivy covered walls. Fans value authenticity and aesthetic touches. There's an inherent beauty to freshly cut grass that adds value to a sporting experience

If durability and playing conditions were the ONLY factors then grass would've already disappeared from baseball and footbal but it hasn't. People will always value authenticity and aesthetics. 

That's why even if synthetic surfaces ever come remotely close to mimicking grass playing conditions, grass will ALWAYS be the preferred surface in soccer.


----------



## eMKay

We'll see about that.


----------



## RaiderATO

JYDA said:


> Why do you think grass nearly disappeared from baseball but has made an enormous comeback despite major advances in synthetic surface technology?


It "nearly disappeared" from baseball because of the shared multi-sport municipal venues and domed stadiums. The artificial turf could withstand overlapping baseball and football seasons and didn't need sunlight. It had little to do with anyone thinking it was superior (that argument lasted all of 3 months).

I haven't played soccer on both fields, so I don't know. I'd just imagine that the play on grass changes from place to place, just like it would change from grass to artificial turf. The turf won't pull up and divot after a rain, it doesn't need much upkeep, doesn't require as much of a crown and will provide a more consistent field of play in a variety of conditions.

Seems like the argument is "artificial turf sucks because its something different." But, I don't know from experience. Every other sport has come to embrace it and not even notice the differences.


----------



## JYDA

RaiderATO said:


> It "nearly disappeared" from baseball because of the shared multi-sport municipal venues and domed stadiums. The artificial turf could withstand overlapping baseball and football seasons and didn't need sunlight. It had little to do with anyone thinking it was superior (that argument lasted all of 3 months).
> 
> I haven't played soccer on both fields, so I don't know. I'd just imagine that the play on grass changes from place to place, just like it would change from grass to artificial turf. The turf won't pull up and divot after a rain, it doesn't need much upkeep, doesn't require as much of a crown and will provide a more consistent field of play in a variety of conditions.
> 
> Seems like the argument is "artificial turf sucks because its something different." But, I don't know from experience. Every other sport has come to embrace it and not even notice the differences.


Again, like I said earlier, the surface has a way bigger effect on soccer because the ball is played ON the surface itself. it's not like football where the only thing touching the surface is the players' feet. 

As for artificial turf itself with respect to soccer, it's not just "different", it's inferior due to its negative effect on play. Grass has the unique attribute of being a soft enough surface to kill the bounce of the ball while being a fast enough surface to allow for quick passes. This allows players to keep the ball on the ground and control the ball while making quick passes. It's this combination that is still far from replicated in artficial surfaces. Even the best ones have higher, more unpredictable bounces which leave players at the mercy of the surface. It's like playing hockey with a tennis ball as opposed to a puck. It never settles. These problems get worse as an artifical surface ages. The artificial grass blades are quickly matted down and the bounce gets higher and higher. This happened at BMO Field and it's happening at Qwest Field in Seattle where the surface is beginning to deteriorate and the bounces are getting even higher..


----------



## GEwinnen

>


This goal is hilarious!


----------



## brewerfan386

^^
Those style of goalposts are a *very common* sight on suburban high school football fields across North America. Goalposts like these save school districts money by being built to accommodate both sports, instead of having two different pieces of (costly) equipment.


----------



## KingmanIII

JYDA said:


> Why do you think college and NFL teams (even green bay) bother with grass at all (it's more than just player preference)?


Lambeau, like Heinz Field in Pittsburgh and Lincoln Financial Field in Philadelphia, as well as many European (and two South African) installations, uses Desso Grassmaster, a grass surface intertwined with synthetic fibres.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DD_GrassMaster
http://www.dessosports.com/en/home/

Many other Northern NFL franchises and college programs have switched to FieldTurf.


----------



## KingmanIII

brewerfan386 said:


> ^^
> Those style of goalposts are a *very common* sight on suburban high school football fields across North America. Goalposts like these save school districts money by being built to accommodate both sports, instead of having two different pieces of (costly) equipment.


In Swope Park in Kansas City, we have a whole bunch of those, right next to the Wizards' practice facility.


----------



## GEwinnen

brewerfan386 said:


> ^^
> Those style of goalposts are a *very common* sight on suburban high school football fields across North America. Goalposts like these save school districts money by being built to accommodate both sports, instead of having two different pieces of (costly) equipment.


Ok, what happens if the ball hits the posts/bars above the "soccer" goal??


----------



## Luke80

^^ Considered out of play I would guess.


----------



## eMKay

brewerfan386 said:


> ^^
> Those style of goalposts are a *very common* sight on suburban high school football fields across North America. Goalposts like these save school districts money by being built to accommodate both sports, instead of having two different pieces of (costly) equipment.


Another benefit is when an opposing player kicks a high shot between the goal posts we can ridicule him by shouting "THE KICK IS UP, AND IT'S GOOOOOD!"


----------



## KingmanIII

eMKay said:


> Another benefit is when an opposing player kicks a high shot between the goal posts we can ridicule him by shouting "THE KICK IS UP, AND IT'S GOOOOOD!"


:lol:


----------



## eMKay

Watching Philadelphia vs Seattle now, great stadium, great atmosphere too. Nice job Philadelphia


----------



## JYDA

the Sons of Ben are fantastic!


----------



## RaiderATO

eMKay said:


> Watching Philadelphia vs Seattle now, great stadium, great atmosphere too. Nice job Philadelphia


I agree. I hadn't really had much of a chance to compare MLS to other soccer leagues until now. . . Assuming EPL, La Liga, etc. are more on par with the WC level of play, MLS still has a long way to go.

But with the massive number of US kids playing the game, I doubt it will take all that long.


----------



## Archbishop

eMKay said:


> Watching Philadelphia vs Seattle now, great stadium, great atmosphere too. Nice job Philadelphia


Definitely. Looked top notch, and it is really cool with the bridge and Delaware River (?) in the background.


----------



## eMKay

Yeah that was a great game, and the level of play is as good as the other leagues, and way better than WC play (but most club play is better) WC is too timid, conservative, booring. England and Germany was good because Germany played to WIN, not played to not lose.

For those that didn't watch...

http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter-recap/union-open-ppl-park-stylish-win-over-seattle


----------



## JYDA

eMKay said:


> Yeah that was a great game, and the level of play is as good as the other leagues, and way better than WC play (but most club play is better)


----------



## eMKay

^^^ what am I looking at here? random statue of some dude? ^^^


----------



## BoulderGrad

eMKay said:


> ^^^ what am I looking at here? random statue of some dude? ^^^


----------



## 1772

eMKay said:


> ^^^ what am I looking at here? random statue of some dude? ^^^


I think he's name is Jesus...? hno:


*BTW*
How come MLS is playing during the World Cup? All the other leagues are paused now, why isn't MLS aswell?


----------



## RaiderATO

eMKay said:


> Yeah that was a great game, and the level of play is as good as the other leagues, and way better than WC play (but most club play is better) WC is too timid, conservative, booring.


Well, to my untrained eye, the MLS play was slow and sloppy. I'd like to hear from someone familiar with MLS and the English league system say what league/division they think MLS teams would fit into, just to know how far MLS has to go.


----------



## RaiderATO

1772 said:


> How come MLS is playing during the World Cup? All the other leagues are paused now, why isn't MLS aswell?


They DID take two weeks off, from June 10-25. Dunno why they're back to playing already, though. Maybe to take advantage of some World Cup hype?


----------



## BoulderGrad

1772 said:


> I think he's name is Jesus...? hno:
> 
> 
> *BTW*
> How come MLS is playing during the World Cup? All the other leagues are paused now, why isn't MLS aswell?


The other leagues aren't pausing for the World Cup. For them, this is the off season. MLS is fairly unique in the soccer world for having their season during the summer. 


Otherwise, not really sure the exact reason they aren't taking the whole tournament off, but I can think of several reasons they wouldn't do such a thing.

#1: The season is long enough with just a regular schedule, imagine if they had to add another entire month to it to break for the entire tournament. Watching how much the NHL had to cram games in to get the Olympic break in would be motivation enough to start back again early.

#2: There may even be an advantage to be had to have games going on during the World Cup as most WC games are in the morning and most MLS games are in the afternoon. Plus you have a larger than normal number of people in Soccer mode, so maybe they bring in a few new fans while the World Cup is going on.

#3: I'm sure teams without a lot of players in the WC would bemoan having to restart conditioning after a month off. Which really, there aren't a lot of players from MLS in the WC to begin with:

US:
Landon Donovan
Edson Buddle
Jonathan Bornstein
Robbie Findley 

Honduras:
Roger Espinoza

New Zealand:
Andrew Boyens


----------



## Luke80

eMKay said:


> Yeah that was a great game, and the level of play is as good as the other leagues, and way better than WC play


:lol: :lol:

The MLS is the equivalent of the 2nd tier football over here, at best!

Unless by 'level of play' you mean 'as entertaining'?


----------



## eMKay

Luke80 said:


> :lol: :lol:
> 
> The MLS is the equivalent of the 2nd tier football over here, at best!
> 
> Unless by 'level of play' you mean 'as entertaining'?


Yes, obviously that is what I meant. Otherwise would I have said it was better than World Cup play? Apparently "JYDA" and "BoulderGrad" are too stupid to figure that out.


----------



## Scoots71

RaiderATO said:


> I'd like to hear from someone familiar with MLS and the English league system say what league/division they think MLS teams would fit into, just to know how far MLS has to go.


I would say that MLS compares to English League Championship. The teams are good enough to where they only give up 2-4 goals against the higher Premiership teams. I personally think the best of the MLS teams on a given season would be good enough possibly to avoid relegation in the Premiership, and the worst of the MLS teams would have to fight for promotion from League 1. There is a wider spread in the MLS compared to the more compact talent gap in the various English leagues. The talent formed by an MLS All-Star team would I think be good enough to qualify for the Europa League, but that is of course an All-Star team, not a single club...


----------



## MegasAlexandros

BoulderGrad said:


> MLS is fairly unique in the soccer world for having their season during the summer.


I guess Russia, the Baltic countries, and Scandinavia are insignificant in your eyes?


----------



## Luke80

eMKay said:


> Yes, obviously that is what I meant. *Otherwise would I have said it was better than World Cup play?* Apparently "JYDA" and "BoulderGrad" are too stupid to figure that out.


Goodness knows if you're opinions on turf are anything to go by.


----------



## massp88

BoulderGrad said:


> The other leagues aren't pausing for the World Cup. For them, this is the off season. MLS is fairly unique in the soccer world for having their season during the summer.
> 
> 
> Otherwise, not really sure the exact reason they aren't taking the whole tournament off, but I can think of several reasons they wouldn't do such a thing.
> 
> #1: The season is long enough with just a regular schedule, imagine if they had to add another entire month to it to break for the entire tournament. Watching how much the NHL had to cram games in to get the Olympic break in would be motivation enough to start back again early.
> 
> #2: There may even be an advantage to be had to have games going on during the World Cup as most WC games are in the morning and most MLS games are in the afternoon. Plus you have a larger than normal number of people in Soccer mode, so maybe they bring in a few new fans while the World Cup is going on.
> 
> #3: I'm sure teams without a lot of players in the WC would bemoan having to restart conditioning after a month off. Which really, there aren't a lot of players from MLS in the WC to begin with:
> 
> US:
> Landon Donovan
> Edson Buddle
> Jonathan Bornstein
> Robbie Findley
> 
> Honduras:
> Roger Espinoza
> 
> New Zealand:
> Andrew Boyens


I think you will be seeing some, if not all of the 4 US players making their way over to Europe. I personally hope at least Landon does.


----------



## Benn

As long as its not like his stint with Beyer. An Everton move would be great though.


----------



## JYDA

eMKay said:


> Yes, obviously that is what I meant. Otherwise would I have said it was better than World Cup play? Apparently "JYDA" and "BoulderGrad" are too stupid to figure that out.


Yes, how stupid of me to think that when you said "level of play" you actually meant level of excitement.


----------



## krudmonk

The level of play actually is above, say, Switzerland/Honduras or New Zealand/Slovakia...


----------



## SIC

I would say that MLS is Championship level, below the top two-three teams seeking promotion. They also lack the depth, so their starting XI is championship level with one or two premiership level players. 7-8 championship level and rest is a mix of League one or League two players.

The sad part, that players can make more money playing in the American 2nd division than on the bench for an MLS team., so the bench players are actually our 3rd/4th tier players. Not 2nd. We have no depth, one or two key injuries and you're done.

Oh yeah, the really bad teams in MLS like philly this year. Would have trouble staying up in League one. But with the draft and salary cap......they could win the league next year. With a smart signing or two.

It's a good level, all things considered and improving. In a small proper SSS, it's worth the $20 bucks to see a live game (Flying out to see a CL level team, will set you back what? 1 or 2 grand? At least.). If you live by an MLS team and you love the sport and you're not going to at least a few games a year. What the hell is wrong with you?


----------



## eMKay

JYDA said:


> Yes, how stupid of me to think that when you said "level of play" you actually meant level of excitement.


Maybe you should think a little before insulting someone


----------



## BoulderGrad

eMKay said:


> Maybe you should think a little before insulting someone





eMKay said:


> Yes, obviously that is what I meant. Otherwise would I have said it was better than World Cup play? Apparently "JYDA" and "BoulderGrad" are too stupid to figure that out.


If you'll read back, I was mocking you for not getting that the Jesus statue picture was a "facepalm" picture to which you insulted me for something I never commented on, soooooo lets be civil here mr tea pot before we start going after kettles.


----------



## eMKay

BoulderGrad said:


> If you'll read back, I was mocking you for not getting that the Jesus statue picture was a "facepalm" picture to which you insulted me for something I never commented on, soooooo lets be civil here mr tea pot before we start going after kettles.


Or you could stop being a childish brat.


----------



## Alx-D

I believe that the best MLS clubs would constantly fight relegation in the Championship. As a fan of MLS and all domestic football, I can still admit that the quality of play is woeful at times and decent at best.


----------



## SIC

Alx-D said:


> I believe that the best MLS clubs would constantly fight relegation in the Championship. As a fan of MLS and all domestic football, I can still admit that the quality of play is woeful at times and decent at best.


Are you a TFC fan?  I think that's harsh, the best MLS teams would do pretty good. They wouldn't dominate, but they wouldn't embarrass themselves either.

I think the current LA team would do decently if not well in the championship. They have a future USNT defenders with De La Garza and Gonzalez. They have Donovan and Beckham, obviously. But they also have some really good veterans that don't have the same star power, but are solid and have plenty of experience like Berhalter, klein, lewis and mathis (They're all former national team players for the US). They also have some promising youngsters. It's a good squad by Championship standards and they're coached by Bruce Arena.

I don't think any of them would be scared of facing Preston North End, Sheffield United or Crystal Palace or any other team. They match up pretty well and I think, theres not a team in that league that wouldn't kill to sign Donovan or Beckham, not one. At this level, Donovan can single-handedly terrorize a team.


----------



## koolio

MLS has some great individual talent like Donovon and Beckham but the league severely lacks in terms of depth because the salary cap is so low. Because of this fact alone, I don't think MLS teams would do all that well in a full English season against other CCC teams. To be honest, I think I agree with the people stating that most MLS teams would probably be fighting relegation. I think LA, in its current form, might sit comfortably mid table but the crappier teams are going to be below that level.


----------



## nomarandlee

Are we talking about fighting regulation in the EPL? If so that I think it's a bit of a given. 

I wonder how most of the MLS teams would do compared to some of the smaller leagues in Europe like the Swiss, Czech, other leauges.


----------



## koolio

nomarandlee said:


> Are we talking about fighting regulation in the EPL? If so that I think it's a bit of a given.
> 
> I wonder how most of the MLS teams would do compared to some of the smaller leagues in Europe like the Swiss, Czech, other leauges.


No, we were referring to the Championship (second tier) level.


----------



## KingmanIII

koolio said:


> No, we were referring to the Championship (second tier) level.


Yeah, they might not even be that good. 

Derby, Burnley, Bristol, Reading, etc., could probably take the better share of matches from MLS sides.

SPL (sans Old Firm) or League One might be a better comparison.


----------



## jamesinclair

BoulderGrad said:


> The other leagues aren't pausing for the World Cup. For them, this is the off season. MLS is fairly unique in the soccer world for having their season during the summer.


Fairly unique? Take off your western europe goggles, most of the world plays March-December. Even northern europe plays summers. 

go to www.livescore.com over the weekend (and click all soccer), youll see numerous leagues in progress.


----------



## krudmonk

KingmanIII said:


> Yeah, they might not even be that good.
> 
> Derby, Burnley, Bristol, Reading, etc., could probably take the better share of matches from MLS sides.
> 
> SPL (sans Old Firm) or League One might be a better comparison.


This is all speculative. MLS games can look brilliant one day and shocking the next, even with the same two teams playing.


----------



## nyrmetros

krudmonk said:


> This is all speculative. MLS games can look brilliant one day and shocking the next, even with the same two teams playing.



Seen that a hundred times..........


----------



## Benn

BoulderGrad said:


> Portland has their seat selector ap up. Gives a good view of what PGE park will look like when the renovation is done:
> 
> http://pgepark.io-media.com/



Looks like there are a ridiculous number of limited views (assuming the digital model is accurate) in the existing stands, not so much from the columns for the roof but from the suite tower added in the late 90s and height of the wall around the field not to mention an mechanical core in the new portion and the light post in the will limit hundreds more. 

Looks to me like 1,500-2,500 seats missing a serious portions of the field.


----------



## Luke80

metros11 said:


> I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but seriously?


I would like to withdraw my opinion having now seen the number of pillars! hno:


----------



## Archbishop

Looks horrible.


----------



## HHH_Gopher

*PGE Views*

After perusing some of the views of the PGE Park layout for the Timbers, I certainly agree that there are an alarming number of limited view seats. The suite complex in the corner really does impede sight lines in a way you normally do not see in a football/soccer facility. 

That being said, I think this facility has a chance to become a great venue for the Timbers and MLS. You hear nothing but great things about the passion of soccer fans in Portland. Most importantly, this renovation could be a model for adaptive reuse of sport facilities. I always have a preference for taking something existing and making it work in some new fashion. PGE Park looks to me to be a great example of that.

And maybe after a time they'll renovate the suites tower to limit the obstructed views.


----------



## KingmanIII

Benn said:


> Looks like there are a ridiculous number of limited views (assuming the digital model is accurate) in the existing stands, not so much from the columns for the roof but from the suite tower added in the late 90s and height of the wall around the field not to mention an mechanical core in the new portion and the light post in the will limit hundreds more.
> 
> Looks to me like 1,500-2,500 seats missing a serious portions of the field.


Yeah, that suite tower is a travesty.

There _had_ to be a better way to go about building them.


----------



## krudmonk

Obstructed views or not, the place will provide a lot of character that Rio Depot Hut Park Center cannot.


----------



## Benn

True, and I would imagine that atmosphere will be short of only Seattle as far as the MLS is concerned, but personally I like to be able to see the entire field when I'm at a game. The new addition seems perfectly suitable other than the stage (atleast put some retractable seats there) and that service core obstructing the edge of the old stands.


----------



## Luke80

Benn said:


> True, and I would imagine that *atmosphere will be short of only Seattle as far as the MLS is concerned*, but personally I like to be able to see the entire field when I'm at a game. The new addition seems perfectly suitable other than the stage (atleast put some retractable seats there) and that service core obstructing the edge of the old stands.


No, surely with that roof it will be by far the loudest.


----------



## mattec

KC's stadium seems to be coming along well

http://webcams.insightkc.com/kcwizards/










http://www.kansascity.com/2010/06/23/2039517/kansas-city-wizards-new-soccer.html


----------



## Benn

Luke80 said:


> No, surely with that roof it will be by far the loudest.


That will depend on whether the Portland fans are louder than Seattle's, also we will have to see how much of Qwest is open next season, it can get very loud with a big crowd.


----------



## soup or man

A reminder of what the Wizards' stadium will look like.


----------



## Dexter Morgan

Kansas City needs a name change once they move into that stadium.


----------



## soup or man

I agree. Naming yourself after The Wizard of Oz isn't really intimidating. I'd go with something more...'soccer like.'

Athletic Kansas City maybe?


----------



## Mr. Fitz

Or just Kansas City.


----------



## weava

soup or man said:


> I agree. Naming yourself after The Wizard of Oz isn't really intimidating. I'd go with something more...'soccer like.'
> 
> Athletic Kansas City maybe?


After the Oakland A's? They used to play in KC...


----------



## SIC

Luke80 said:


> No, surely with that roof it will be by far the loudest.


It's a wooden roof though, it probably absorbs sound more than anything. They're loud...well because they're loud. Not because of the roof, I reckon.


----------



## soup or man

weava said:


> After the Oakland A's? They used to play in KC...


Didn't think anybody would get the reference.

:tongue3:


----------



## Archbishop

soup or man said:


> I agree. Naming yourself after The Wizard of Oz isn't really intimidating. I'd go with something more...'soccer like.'
> 
> Athletic Kansas City maybe?


We already have enough Euro-poser names in MLS. Kansas City Wizards is a fine name.


----------



## eMKay

KingmanIII said:


> Yeah, that suite tower is a travesty.
> 
> There _had_ to be a better way to go about building them.


They're absolutely perfect....For Baseball. They should have left the beavers there and built a new stadium for the Timbers. This stadium was just recently renovated.


----------



## krudmonk

Dexter Morgan said:


> Kansas City needs a name change once they move into that stadium.


:|


----------



## Archbishop

eMKay said:


> They're absolutely perfect....For Baseball. They should have left the beavers there and built a new stadium for the Timbers. This stadium was just recently renovated.


I'm just glad they got the Timbers a stadium even if it has major flaws. It should be an awesome market for soccer in America.


----------



## slipperydog

A couple more of the new KC park:


----------



## lpioe

^^ quite an original design.
Will be one of the better MLS venues.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Archbishop said:


> We already have enough Euro-poser names in MLS. Kansas City Wizards is a fine name.


Actually, now that I get the reference, I think Wizards is a pretty cool name. Much better fit than the basketball team anyways (Washington Wizards toned down from the Washington Bullets). And really, since when is it a requirement that a team name be intimidating? A lot of times, its just something to do with the local culture or history. 

A list of very popular, very non intimidating names:

-Maple Leafs
-Canadiens (not saying Canadians are wusses or something, but you wouldn't cower in fear just at the sight of some dude from Canada? Would you? Well, maybe some in this country would )
-Canucks (same as above)
-Islanders
-Penguins
-Blues
-Ducks
-Stars
-Nets
-Nuggets
-Jazz
-Clippers
-Lakers
-Royals
-Orioles
-Cardinals

Etc, etc etc

Like he said, Wizards works well


----------



## Luke80

Benn said:


> That will depend on whether the Portland fans are louder than Seattle's, also we will have to see how much of Qwest is open next season, it can get very loud with a big crowd.


Naturally, but a low roof will make a lot more noise than the relatively 'open' feeling Qwest.



SIC said:


> It's a wooden roof though, it probably absorbs sound more than anything. They're loud...well because they're loud. Not because of the roof, I reckon.


Oh I see, that's a shame. Need some cheap metal to put on the underside so your ears hurt after 90 minutes!


----------



## nyrmetros

Kansas City FC
Kansas City SC
Atheletico KC

etc....


nice roof


----------



## GunnerJacket

Don't look for another rebranding. Not only have some nuances of the venue been attuned to the Wizards theme, like the ultras section to be called the Cauldron, but MLS and soccer in the US in general can't handle too many more such make overs. US soccer MUST establish an identity and long-term rapport with its fans, and they can't do that if you keep moving teams (San Jose -> Huston, losing teams (Miami, Tampa) or trying to rebrand too many of them (San Jose, Dallas, NY). Kansas City has already correctly evolved from the Wiz to the Wizards, and they have a trophy to their name, so I think little more than perhaps an updated badge would be in order.

Further, there's only so much more you can pull off of Kansas City's regional culture that would apply itself to soccer/football. BBQ ribs? Blues? Wheat?! If they go that route the best option might be to resurrect the Comets nickname, as at least that's one the community is familiar with. I'd rather they simply stayed the course.

Keep making the product and fan experiences better, and then the names will become familiar and acceptable. Save for _Team Red Bull: New York branch_, of course, that remains an affront to decent fan treatment.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Don't look for another rebranding. Not only have some nuances of the venue been attuned to the Wizards theme, like the ultras section to be called the Cauldron, but MLS and soccer in the US in general can't handle too many more such make overs. US soccer MUST establish an identity and long-term rapport with its fans, and they can't do that if you keep moving teams (San Jose -> Huston, losing teams (Miami, Tampa) or trying to rebrand too many of them (San Jose, Dallas, NY). Kansas City has already correctly evolved from the Wiz to the Wizards, and they have a trophy to their name, so I think little more than perhaps an updated badge would be in order.

Further, there's only so much more you can pull off of Kansas City's regional culture that would apply itself to soccer/football. BBQ ribs? Blues? Wheat?! If they go that route the best option might be to resurrect the Comets nickname, as at least that's one the community is familiar with. I'd rather they simply stayed the course.

Keep making the product and fan experiences better, and then the names will become familiar and acceptable. Save for _Team Red Bull: New York branch_, of course, that remains an affront to decent fan treatment.


----------



## Scba

nyrmetros said:


> Kansas City FC
> Kansas City SC
> Atheletico KC
> 
> etc....
> 
> 
> nice roof


None of this FC/Atheletico crap when you're playing MLS ball in Kansas City.


----------



## Rev Stickleback

matthemod said:


> I think United generally did mean two teams who did indeed unite to form one,.


Really, it's not. There are hardly any examples of it happening.

The most famous United are Manchester United, and they certainly didn't merge with anyone.

Newcastle is a possible, although one club really just took over the ground of another that folded.

The name just sounded "professional" after that. A lot of clubs were named after the districts they were formed in, and looked for a more pro sounding name to represent the whole city. Small Heath and Ardwick became Birmingham City and Manchester City in the same way. 

Blackburn Rovers used to be Blackburn Grammar School Old Boys

Leeds were a reformed club after Leeds City were disbanded.

It's all just "branding", albeit done in the Victorian era, rather than by some ponytailed 40-something called Nigel who says Ciao on his phone rather than goodbye.


----------



## matthemod

Don't mean to go too-off topic with this but I know (all Uniteds) Hereford, Rotherham, Scunthorpe and Torquay outright fused with other teams, with Newcastle, Peterborough and West Ham having been one team who merged with a folding/folded team. But I relent an understanding of how it sounds professional and representative of an entire area. 

I always thought it was weird D.C. United was called United but I suppose now it's not quite as annoying.


----------



## eMKay

matthemod said:


> Don't mean to go too-off topic with this but I know (all Uniteds) Hereford, Rotherham, Scunthorpe and Torquay outright fused with other teams, with Newcastle, Peterborough and West Ham having been one team who merged with a folding/folded team. But I relent an understanding of how it sounds professional and representative of an entire area.
> 
> I always thought it was weird D.C. United was called United but I suppose now it's not quite as annoying.


D.C. United is in the capitol, so that makes sense. Washington DC, capitol of the UNITED states


----------



## Rev Stickleback

matthemod said:


> Don't mean to go too-off topic with this but I know (all Uniteds) Hereford, Rotherham, Scunthorpe and Torquay outright fused with other teams, with Newcastle, Peterborough and West Ham having been one team who merged with a folding/folded team. But I relent an understanding of how it sounds professional and representative of an entire area.
> 
> I always thought it was weird D.C. United was called United but I suppose now it's not quite as annoying.


a quick shufty through a copy of Simon Inglis Football Ground of Britain reveals... (apart from the fact that I have waaaaay too much time on my hands)

Cambridge Utd; formed as Abbey United, adopted Cambridge United upon turning professional. No merger.

Carlisle United; formed as Shaddongate United, who (as Shaddongate United) had merged with Carlisle Red Rose FC.

Colchester United; originally an amateur club called, Colchester Town. That club was folded and replaced by a pro club, called Colchester United. No merger.

Hartlepool United; formed as Hartlepools United. Not a merger, but is representing the two Hartlepools, as you say.

Hereford - A merger! But not until 1924.

Leeds United; took over as Leeds United from Leeds City, after City were expelled from the league. No merger.

Man Utd; were Newton Heath Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway FC, and . Changed by a new owner. No merger.

Newcastle United. Formed as Newcastle East End. Took over St James' Park after Newcastle West End went bust, and changed their name a few months later.

Oxford United; as Headington, then Headington United (no merger), changed to Oxford Utd upon turning pro.

Peterborough Utd; formed as Peterborough Utd. They replaced Peterborough & Fletton United who'd folded a couple of years earlier.

Rotherham United - merger! Rotherham Town and Rotherham County merged in 1924. Rotherham County were originally Thornhill, then Thornhill United, and then Rotherham county, even though there is no county of Rotherham.

Scunthorpe United - merger! Various clubs merged in 1899, and merged again with Lindsey United to become Scunthorpe & Lindsey United in 1910.

Sheffield United; always Sheffield United - an offshoot of the previous mentioned United cricket club of Sheffield.

Southend United; formed as Southend United. No merger.

Torquay United; a merger of three clubs.

West Ham United; formed as Thames Ironworks. Became West Ham United after a club reorganisation. No merger.


But anyway, it's something of a shame that all this United/City/Rovers rebranding took place, because the old FA Cup records reveal some rather more colourful team names. 

From the FA Cup's past...

Hampstead Heathens
Reigate Priory
Woodford Wells
Swifts
Trojans
Harrow Chequers
Panthers
Ramblers
Saxons
Druids
Remnants
Birch Manchester
Unity
Mosquitoes
Stafford Road Works
Providence
Tyne Association
Argonaughts
Briggs Britannia
Dreadnaught
Blackburn Law
Esher Leopold
Church
Lockwood Brothers
Phoenix Bessemer
United Hospital
Birmingham Excel
Chesterfield Spital
Lincoln Lindham
United London Scot
Derby Junction
Mellors
Black Arabs

I think Hampstead Heathens is my favourite.


Steering slightly back on topic, the old American league had some great football team names

J&P Coats
Philadelphia Field Club
Boston Wonder Workers
Fall River Marksmen
Brooklyn Wanderers
Providence Gold Bugs
New York Giants(!)
Hakoah All-Stars
Fliescher Yarn
Holyoke Falcos
Newark Skeeters
New York Yankees (!)
Queens Bohemians
Shawsheen Indians
Springfield Babes
Todd Shipyards


----------



## eMKay

Hampstead Heathens, now THAT's a name!


----------



## Machiavel

HUSKER said:


> In the world there are 1st tier leagues: Premiership England, La Liga Spain, Serie A Italy, First Division France and Bundesliga Germany.- All the national teams of those leagues are 1st class teams (shure some of them had bad WC).- The vast majority of their national players play in their homes.
> Thenwe have 2nd tier leagues, like the Erivisdie of Holland, the two leagues in Brazil, the first division of Argentina
> Their national teams are composed by the superstars that play in the 1st tier leagues and other players that play in their homes.
> Uruguay's team only has 2 players that play in Uruguay and the rest 20 play outside. Swiss team has 7 players that play in the swiss league, 7 in the Bundesliga and the rest in ENG, NED, etc.
> The US team has it's base in Europe teams (mostly second level teams in the premiership or the german league).- The MLS is doing the things right, it's growing slowly but steady, it has 3 or 4 former very good international players that give shome shine to the fan base and it's recruting the best young US players out of college, at the same time it's relocating teams that have not done well, that's amending the mistakes done and trying to correct them.- In 10 years I predict the MLS will have a 2nd tier level, with a steady fan base and will be competing with the mexican league for the yearly crown of the concacaf league championship (that gives a ticket to the yearly club world cup.


All English players play in the premiership, which is arguably the top league in the world and yet England didn't perform well at all. So this example pretty much negates that argument that only 2 players out 22 plays for the domestic league in Uruguay. Same for Switzerland and even the Dutch. Having players that play in the top league means nothing, just look at Cote d'Ivoire and Cameroon.

Anyways, I was just defending MLS because regardless of it's level of play, there are still a lot of American players who are product of the MLS that go play abroad and do fairly well. 


Also, to comment on your prediction, it may happen much sooner than 10 years from now. I personally think that soccer is already "here" in the US. What else do people need to declare that soccer is here in the US? There's a pro league with a respectable attendance considering most of the top American players play abroad. There are some state of the art soccer specific stadiums. Yes, they are small in comparison to those in Europe, but I'd rather see the 18 thousand seater in MLS than the 40 thousand seat completely empty like we see every week in the Serie A. Even AC Milan and Inter do not sell out all their games, and look at the marquee players they have on their rosters.

There are soccer related shows, magazines, websites and it's discussed on several occasion on shows like Around the horn and Pardon the Interruption.

Also, there are sell out crowds for exhibition/preseason games almost every time there is a European team such as Real Madrid, Chelsea or Ac Milan that come here. So soccer is definitely a stock many fans want. MLS just has to figure out a way to lure more foreign players with big names. This strategy worked well for the J-league in Japand and improved the quality of football in Japan considerably.

Yes, even though the US is still a small soccer market than Greece and Turkey for instance, I still think that there's a way of attracting the like of Cisse, Govou, Elano etc because the biggest sports sponsors are here.


----------



## dl3000

I would argue that La Liga is the best league in the world. I don't care what the teams are called. It is the level of play that determines how respectable a league is. The problem is MLS is relatively new, teams and all, in the US, so having ripoff names doesn't help their case thats for sure.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Thought this was relevant: An analysis of which players from each national team play in which country's professional league for all the world cups back to '94:
http://flowingdata.com/2010/06/29/imported-world-cup-players/


----------



## soup or man

eMKay said:


> Hampstead Heathens, now THAT's a name!


I don't know. Dreadnaught sounds ominous.


----------



## BoulderGrad

With regards to this team name business, and phony adaptations of traditional names from other leagues, I say THATS THE WHOLE IDEA OF THE U.S. TO BEGIN WITH. We've always been a melting pot of people and cultures from all over the world. I can scarcely think of an American tradition that isn't ripped off from another culture:

-Hamburgers and Frankfurters are named after cities in Germany
-Our "American beer" is all German lagers 
-Our highways are copies of the German Autobahns we saw during WW2
-Our apple pies are made with fruit introduced from central Asia
-Burritos are from Mexico
-Pizza is from Italy
-Our July 4th Fireworks all come from China (along with everything else we buy over here :-D)
etc etc etc

We take traditions and cultures from the people that make up our population, mix them together, and make them our own. It's all we can do really... Our history only begins a little over 500 years, and even then, its only been a little over 230 years since we had our own identity as a country. We're still catching up to all you old world folks who can trace histories back to Roman times. 


Sooo yeah... The DC United and Philadelphia Union didn't come from 2 clubs getting together 80 years ago. But its still cool and clever because names like United, Union, and Revolution still fit the patriotic history of colonial America (and then there's the modern tradition of corporatization as shown by the Red Bulls ). 

And yeah... all these FC's aren't really proffessionalizations of hundred year old amateur football clubs (Toronto, Dallas, Seattle, Vancouver, etc). They're just 2 or 3 year old pro franchises that wanted a euro sounding name. 

Real Salt Lake has no official link to a royal family...

Chivas USA was never C.D. Los Angeles (Although maybe it should be, that sounds kinda cool...)

etc etc

We're still new to this, give us a break. Hey, we're even trying to put roofs on most of our new soccer stadiums...


----------



## Walbanger

dl3000 said:


> I would argue that La Liga is the best league in the world. I don't care what the teams are called. *It is the level of play that determines how respectable a league is. The problem is MLS is relatively new*, teams and all, in the US, so having ripoff names doesn't help their case thats for sure.


The fact that the majority of teams have been able to get new Stadiums built to their specific requirments suggests that MLS is a credible and very serious business and has been been for over a decade.



BoulderGrad said:


> We're still new to this, *give us a break*. Hey, we're even trying to put roofs on most of our new soccer stadiums...


As far as I can tell it has other Americans who have questioned the names and myself where in Australia we have the same question marks over team names.


----------



## metros11

Dexter Morgan said:


> Kansas City needs a name change once they move into that stadium.


Even though I don't agree, they're going to get one.


----------



## metros11

matthemod said:


> This is one thing i've always wondered, I understand the appeal of a nickname relevant towards their location, but why not just a simple "Kansas City F.C. (or S.C. whatever)? Yes I know i'm going to get some euro-poser rhetoric response, but teams over here get nicknames based on the history of the location anyway, as they have done in instances Stateside.
> 
> For instance Darlington F.C. are known as the Quakers, but their team name isn't the "Darlington Quakers", as Grimsby Town are the "Mariners", not by any official club decree but because that's what everyone in Grimsby used to do for work. Or maybe like my favourite team and just modify your name anyway, Gillingham F.C. are "the gills", same goes for teams like Colchester United as "The U's"
> 
> I'm not intending this post to be some sort of euro-poser sympathy post, I personally really dislike "Real Salt Lake" and other ones, i've just always wondered why it seems teams have designated nickname's, rather than letting them come naturally. Or perhaps i'm just not aware of all the facts.


That's because the English and American sporting cultures are different. Neither is wrong. Whatever work in England is fine, but it doesn't have to be applied in the US. American sport teams have always included a nickname, and there is no reason for this to change.


----------



## metros11

JYDA said:


> I can't disagree with you on that. Real Salt Lake is the most nauseating and plastic name for a team I've ever heard of


When Salt Lake City was awarded the franchise they had a poll on their website and several news source websites to vote for the team's name. Between four options the name 'Highlanders' won with 65% of the vote. 'Real' came dead last with 4%. But Dave Checketts (owner) was so set on the name he decided to go with it anyways. So there you have it, ReAl Salt Lake...


----------



## metros11

hngcm said:


> The Rockets were named in San Diego but it fits Houston better.


At that point in time it still fit San Diego.

If Wikipedia is to be believed: "The San Diego franchise nickname became the "Rockets" due to the local development (General Dynamics) of the famed Atlas missile/booster rocket program."


----------



## soup or man

Here is the logo and uniforms for the Vancouver Whitecaps.


----------



## KingmanIII

^^


----------



## eMKay

I like them a lot


----------



## eMKay

metros11 said:


> When Salt Lake City was awarded the franchise they had a poll on their website and several news source websites to vote for the team's name. Between four options the name 'Highlanders' won with 65% of the vote. 'Real' came dead last with 4%. But Dave Checketts (owner) was so set on the name he decided to go with it anyways. So there you have it, ReAl Salt Lake...


Highlanders? Damn, that's a great name, fits the region perfectly.


----------



## soup or man

eMKay said:


> Highlanders? Damn, that's a great name, fits the region perfectly.


Actually, the choices were Salt Lake City Highlanders, Salt Lake Soccer Club, Alliance Soccer Club and Union SLC.

Personally I like the name Real Salt Lake but Union SLC does have a nice ring to it. Then the Philadelphia could have been named the Independence.


----------



## JYDA

metros11 said:


> When Salt Lake City was awarded the franchise they had a poll on their website and several news source websites to vote for the team's name. Between four options the name 'Highlanders' won with 65% of the vote. 'Real' came dead last with 4%. But Dave Checketts (owner) was so set on the name he decided to go with it anyways. So there you have it, ReAl Salt Lake...


ughhhhhhhh.....................hno: bravo Dave Checketts


----------



## Archbishop

Real Salt Lake is the worst team name in sports outside of the NBA singular names.


----------



## El Mariachi

metros11 said:


> When Salt Lake City was awarded the franchise they had a poll on their website and several news source websites to vote for the team's name. Between four options the name 'Highlanders' won with 65% of the vote. 'Real' came dead last with 4%. But Dave Checketts (owner) was so set on the name he decided to go with it anyways. So there you have it, ReAl Salt Lake...


they have to change that and the name of their basketball team.


----------



## El Mariachi

soup or man said:


> Here is the logo and uniforms for the Vancouver Whitecaps.


not bad, but I still don't like the ads on the jersey. You could do worse then Bell I suppose. I love the girls jersey. The guys jersey should get rid of that horizontal stripes though as they kind of remind me of the underbelly of a turtle or a snake. Then again, with a name like Bell (I know it's not the helicopter company) on the jersey---they could go with the name "Huey Cobra" as their nickname. :lol:


----------



## JYDA

>


The younger brother of Steve Nash on the left.


----------



## PapaiNoel

I think that the U.S teams should participate the libertadores cup as the mexican teams do. It will be important to the competition too cuz will atract more investiments of big companies as Panasonic, for examble.


----------



## krudmonk

PapaiNoel said:


> I think that the U.S teams should participate the libertadores cup as the mexican teams do. It will be important to the competition too cuz will atract more investiments of big companies as Panasonic, for examble.


I wish everyone down there thought like you.


----------



## PapaiNoel

^^

Many people think that but they say that US teams are very weak (it's true in some ways, but not in general). Other point, it will be good for the MLS either, cuz they will play against some strongest teams of the world (Brazilian and Argentinian teams).


----------



## metros11

soup or man said:


> Actually, the choices were Salt Lake City Highlanders, Salt Lake Soccer Club, Alliance Soccer Club and Union SLC.
> 
> Personally I like the name Real Salt Lake but Union SLC does have a nice ring to it. Then the Philadelphia could have been named the Independence.


I specifically remember 'ReAl' being one of the options. Checketts included it because he really believed that soccer enthusiasts would love the name.


----------



## metros11

PapaiNoel said:


> ^^
> 
> Many people think that but they say that US teams are very weak (it's true in some ways, but not in general). Other point, it will be good for the MLS either, cuz they will play against some strongest teams of the world (Brazilian and Argentinian teams).


I know that one season DC United participated in Copa Sudamericana. Outside of that the biggest hurdle is the traveling distance.


----------



## PrevaricationComplex

Rev Stickleback said:


> The name just sounded "professional" after that. A lot of clubs were named after the districts they were formed in, and looked for a more pro sounding name to represent the whole city. Small Heath and Ardwick became Birmingham City and Manchester City in the same way...
> 
> ...It's all just "branding", albeit done in the Victorian era, rather than by some ponytailed 40-something called Nigel who says Ciao on his phone rather than goodbye.


the lancashire and yorkshire railway workers football team [that btw wasnt the name but along those lines] moved to a new ground in newton heath. they adopted the name of the area when they went pro, besause they weren't a company team. Their support was mostly lancashire based until the professional name, only then did they start gaining support from their 'local' area. when they needed a new ground again they went to an 80,000 cap old trafford, the name changed to reflcet their support base i.e greater manchester/lancashire. It refers to the city and surrounding area being united not clubs which *IS* the case otherwise.

its got nothing to do with 'sounding pro', the name signifies something integral to the history of the club. we could easily have been called manchester celtic btw. and its got nout to do with branding. hence city being called manchester city to distinguish themselves from the peasants outside the gates. anyway this is little known history even among English football fans where anyone who doesnt live in salfy is regarded as a glory hunter.


----------



## fermone04

I think that it would be really good for MLS and the tournaments it self (Libertadores & copa America) but the problem is that since is the oldest international soccer tournament in AMERICA (Libertadores ) and it was created by CONMEBOL they think that only south American teams should be in, and other countries are just in as invitational only which I don’t really agree, I think all the American soccer confederations (CONMEBOL/CONCACAF) need to rearrange this tournaments and the pressure needs to come From CONCACAF, in Europe they have the EURO which is all Europe (National teams) they have the CHAMPIONS ( Soccer Clubs) why CONMEBOL thinks they own those tournament they might it created them but is not fair for all America 



This will really increase the pressure on all teams South Americans, Mexico , US will be bringing in tons of marketing & cash for all countries and the most important the level from Mexico & US will increase rapidly


----------



## Rev Stickleback

PrevaricationComplex said:


> the lancashire and yorkshire railway workers football team [that btw wasnt the name but along those lines] moved to a new ground in newton heath. they adopted the name of the area when they went pro, besause they weren't a company team. Their support was mostly lancashire based until the professional name, only then did they start gaining support from their 'local' area. when they needed a new ground again they went to an 80,000 cap old trafford, the name changed to reflcet their support base i.e greater manchester/lancashire. It refers to the city and surrounding area being united not clubs which *IS* the case otherwise.


I think if you change the name of a club to reflect a wider area, that is rebranding. I can't see what else it can be. Newton Heath were already a well supported club, so it wasn't done to appeal to a wider audience, and the move away from the Newton Heath area may have forced their hand, but it's clearly a statement that the club is one for people from a wider area than Newton Heath.

It might well have been Man Utd's adoption of the name that pushed it into popularity. 

What's great is that Newton Heath's nickname apparentely was "The Heathens"

Still, I find it hard to understand the claim the Man Utd's name is the exception, and others clubs called United are because of mergers, because they clearly aren't. I listed 15 other examples above - all the Utd's in the league at the time, and only 5 had been mergers, and two of those merged with a club that was already called United.

And plenty of clubs are the result of mergers, and aren't called United, Barnet, Blackpool, Bristol City, Dagenham, Exeter, Ipswich, Reading, Stockport, Watford and Walsall among them.

It's just one of those "facts" that's become accepted as common knowledge, despite the evidence making it rather unlikely.


In the UK we do have some names that we'd no doubt regard as downright bizarre in another country...

Arsenal
Aston Villa
Crewe Alexandra
Crystal Palace
Leyton Orient
Nottingham Forest
Plymouth Argyle
Port Vale
Tottenham Hotspur
Sheffield Wednesday
Inverness Calendonian Thistle
Hamilton Academical
Queen of the South
St Johnstone
...not to mention all the Rovers and Wanderers. I even went to a game once where both teams had the suffix of "Casuals", Corinthian and Walton.


----------



## Livno80101

PapaiNoel said:


> I think that the U.S teams should participate the libertadores cup as the mexican teams do. It will be important to the competition too cuz will atract more investiments of big companies as Panasonic, for examble.


I think that both Mexican and US teams should pay more attention to CONCACAF CL, and that Mexican teams should be stopped to take part in CONMEBOL Copa Libertadores. Two different confederations, two different competitions.

And if some want to put USA teams in Copa Lib, then those *two confederations should be merged in one* and make *one national teams cup*, one club cup, and *one WC qualification competition*.


----------



## PrevaricationComplex

Rev Stickleback said:


> I think if you change the name of a club to *reflect* a wider area, that is rebranding. I can't see what else it can be. Newton Heath were already a well supported club, so it wasn't done to *appeal* to a wider audience...


stop. you've used the highlighted words interchangably. you clearly haven't understood my point. and that last sentence stands on its own, alone, vague and devoid of context and pushed as a straw man to scare away imaginary crows. in any case i dont want to carry on with this, itll hijack the americans thread.



> It might well have been Man Utd's adoption of the name that pushed it into popularity.
> 
> What's great is that Newton Heath's nickname apparentely was "The Heathens"


first one im gonna let slide for the aforementioned hijacking reasons. as for the second, yeah it is great aint it.



> And plenty of clubs are the result of mergers, and aren't called United


So. who said it was a law.



> In the UK we do have some names that we'd no doubt regard as downright bizarre in another country...


speak for your self, personally i like and dont think bizarre at all... the woolitch arsenal, villa, the vale, argyle, the orient, forrest and partick thistle.




> Arsenal
> Aston Villa
> Crewe Alexandra
> Crystal Palace
> Leyton Orient
> Nottingham Forest
> Plymouth Argyle
> Port Vale
> Tottenham Hotspur
> Sheffield Wednesday
> Inverness Calendonian Thistle
> Hamilton Academical
> Queen of the South
> St Johnstone
> ...not to mention all the Rovers and Wanderers. I even went to a game once where both teams had the suffix of "Casuals", Corinthian and Walton.


nout wierd or bizarre about rovers or wanderers at all. fine names the lot of em, just like the philladelphia union, new England revolution, sounders, tfc even (just accurate after all). the only thing i find bizarre and this is just a personal thing is the zoo animals in american sports. but in ant case what we find bizarre had little to do with my post entirely about uniteds name.

btw what league do the corinthians play in these days? corinthians based in sao paulo were named after the casuals.

im surprised the greek thing isnt more popular in the states, since its popular elsewhere (ajax, spartak etc) and would fit in pretty well with their naming culture while being original. FC being considered copying and all and united too quaint and English to be serious.

san antonio salaminia, memphis order (not greek but you get the idea. quite like that one). spartan AFC/spatan soccer, or even just one name on its own telamon or something. in my book anything is good except zoo animals


----------



## nyrmetros

Did Vancouver butcher their crest like Portland did?


----------



## soup or man

You tell me.


----------



## Archbishop

I love the Whitecaps' new logo. It's my favorite in MLS.


----------



## nomarandlee

nyrmetros said:


> Did Vancouver butcher their crest like Portland did?


I think its pretty good. The color scheme could use some readjustment perhaps. 

Also think the Vancouver and Portland names are among some of the better ones in MLS.


----------



## soup or man

Archbishop said:


> I love the Whitecaps' new logo. It's my favorite in MLS.


I don't know. Despite what you guys think of the name, Real Salt Lake still has the best logo.










DC United has the worst. It looks like a rank during Nazi Germany.


----------



## MegasAlexandros

So how about those *SOCCER STADIUMS*??
:cheers:


----------



## nomarandlee

PrevaricationComplex said:


> im surprised the greek thing isnt more popular in the states, since its popular elsewhere (ajax, spartak etc) and would fit in pretty well with their naming culture while being original. FC being considered copying and all and united too quaint and English to be serious.


I've have thought about this happening in a number of cases potentially. Even though Chivas is a blatent ripoff of a forigen language name I like the idea of taking forigen names to convey nicknames. 

If for instance Milwaukee or St. Louis ever got a team them having a German nickname of some sort would seem appropriate. Or if Miami ever got another team a Spanish nickname. If Minneapolis ever got a team perhaps a Swedish name etc. Frankly the amount of good English nicknames that haven't been taken by major professional or collegiate teams seems to be getting rather small.



> san antonio salaminia, memphis order (not greek but you get the idea. quite like that one). spartan AFC/spatan soccer, or even just one name on its own telamon or something. in my book anything is good except zoo animals


Zoo animals are awesome. They are not inanimate or verbs which by definition of not living aren't supposed to have a personality. Really it works both ways though, Americans are completely used to animal names and Brits/Europeans use what seem to be completely obscure or nonsensical to the uninitiated American ear.


----------



## nyrmetros

MegasAlexandros said:


> So how about those *SOCCER STADIUMS*??
> :cheers:



Well at this point I am convinced that the reason RBA is not sold out every night is because of the team name and logo.................


----------



## metros11

nyrmetros said:


> Well at this point I am convinced that the reason RBA is not sold out every night is because of the team name and logo.................


It's not the team nor the logo. The reason it's not sold out is MLS itself. Like it or not the local immigrant population is just not that interested in the league.


----------



## metros11

soup or man said:


> You tell me.


I like both of the logos.


----------



## PrevaricationComplex

nomarandlee said:


> I've have thought about this happening in a number of cases potentially. Even though Chivas is a blatent ripoff of a forigen language name I like the idea of taking forigen names to convey nicknames.
> 
> If for instance Milwaukee or St. Louis ever got a team them having a German nickname of some sort would seem appropriate. Or if Miami ever got another team a Spanish nickname. If Minneapolis ever got a team perhaps a Swedish name etc. Frankly the amount of good English nicknames that haven't been taken by major professional or collegiate teams seems to be getting rather small.


not talking about nicknames mate, actual names. ajax being the greek legend, and there are 2 teams i know of called hercules [pronouced her-ec-leez]. now with hercules as the specific example, it obviously wont work, would sound too cartoonish these days. but i gave greek names in general because i thought they were universal and so could be claimed by anybody without sounding like a rip-off. corinthians and ajax being the exception to this obviously.



> Zoo animals are awesome... Really it works both ways though, Americans are completely used to animal names and Brits/Europeans use what seem to be completely obscure or nonsensical to the uninitiated American ear.


as i alluded to earlier, yeah i know. just making a jibe around a personal view without trying to genuinely insult anyone. and i had hoped the point [off topic as it was] was made without the context of european/south american culture []in relation[] to your culture. because anyone anywhere can mock zoo animals


----------



## Archbishop

Let's see RBA fill up now.


----------



## soup or man

I like what MLS is doing in terms of bringing in international superstars (Beckham, Henry) during their 'not quite prime' portion of their careers. While they are not playing at their best, they still have the draw and the skill to bring fans to the stadiums. As well as expose them to high quality of play.


----------



## Archbishop

I think this is a much better signing than Beckham. Henry will be a better player more fit for the MLS play. The Red Bull New York-Los Angeles Galaxy game is going to be massive. The two biggest stars with the two biggest media markets in the country in one of the two best stadiums.


----------



## Kazurro

soup or man said:


> I like what MLS is doing in terms of bringing in international superstars (Beckham, Henry) during their 'not quite prime' portion of their careers. While they are not playing at their best, they still have the draw and the skill to bring fans to the stadiums. As well as expose them to high quality of play.


Henry is much more spectacular player than Beckham. I think he'll fit much better there and will be a great signing for MLS.

BTW ¿Is Beckham returning to US? And what about rumours Ronaldinho signing for LA?


----------



## ryebreadraz

Kazurro said:


> Henry is much more spectacular player than Beckham. I think he'll fit much better there and will be a great signing for MLS.
> 
> BTW ¿Is Beckham returning to US? And what about rumours Ronaldinho signing for LA?


Beckham will return to the Galaxy once his achilles heals and Ronaldinho has reportedly agreed to a deal with Flamengo so a move to LA is highly unlikely.


----------



## matthemod

What would you say the quality out of 10 (for very simplistic, non comparitive in terms of other leagues but for just the quality of football available) the non "star" players are on average throughout the M.L.S.? 

The reason I ask is that wasn't that one of the faults of the old NASL, that huge named players were brought in to play, to draw in the crowds and to kind of paper over the cracls?


----------



## ryebreadraz

matthemod said:


> What would you say the quality out of 10 (for very simplistic, non comparitive in terms of other leagues but for just the quality of football available) the non "star" players are on average throughout the M.L.S.?
> 
> The reason I ask is that wasn't that one of the faults of the old NASL, that huge named players were brought in to play, to draw in the crowds and to kind of paper over the cracls?


I wouldn't know where to put it out of 10, but I will say that it is getting better and that's why the quality of play in the league is getting better. If you take a look at Los Angeles, you have Donovan and Buddle as the star players, but guys like Birchall, Gonzalez and Franklin are very solid players, with Gonzalez and Franklin young guys who may move on to bigger leagues in the future.


----------



## massp88

Kazurro said:


> Henry is much more spectacular player than Beckham. I think he'll fit much better there and will be a great signing for MLS.
> 
> BTW ¿Is Beckham returning to US? And what about rumours Ronaldinho signing for LA?


If Henry is able to caption any hint of his form while he was at Highbury/The Emirates and flourished under ArsenE Wenger, then he will do some great things in the MLS. 

Beckham has a different playing style than Henry.

This is another big singing for the MLS. But it just goes to show that the MLS will never attract first rate talent from across the world. I only hope that Landon Donovan makes a move over to Europe full time.


----------



## nyrmetros

Kansas baby!


----------



## Livno80101

ryebreadraz said:


> Beckham will return to the Galaxy once his achilles heals and Ronaldinho has reportedly agreed to a deal with Flamengo so a move to LA is highly unlikely.


Beckham wont return to LA. He's football career is over. He might go back to California just to act in movies and so. But football - no.

And great pic of Henry - he holds the ball in his hand. 
Kidding. I hope him to attract more people to RB's matches, as by now that club was badly followed. One more good player in each line (def, mid) could make NY title favorites.


----------



## eMKay

nyrmetros said:


> Kansas baby!


Yeah FINALLY back on topic, more please!


----------



## hngcm

That was quick!


----------



## en1044

Wow that really was quick. Guess they really want to get out of that baseball stadium haha.


----------



## eMKay

I found some more, didn't have to look hard, they are right in the Wizards site...

Link in case hotlinking fails
http://www.backpost.net/2010/07/wizards-stadium-first-roof-truss.html


----------



## soup or man

Kind of in the middle of nowhere.


----------



## GunnerJacket

soup or man said:


> Kind of in the middle of nowhere.


Kind of like Kansas City itself. 


In all seriousness, this is great. Another franchise moving closer to improved stability and long-term profitability, and with that MLS itself. Cheers! :cheers:


----------



## KingmanIII

soup or man said:


> Kind of in the middle of nowhere.


as is the entire Village West development


----------



## Archbishop

Watching DC-LA right now. I really hope DC can get a stadium because they have a very impressive crowd and fanbase!


----------



## westsidebomber

I look forward to seeing the new KC stadium when I drive back to school in about a month. Looks great so far!


----------



## BoulderGrad

Seattle vs Celtic FC drew 45,000 fans at Qwest today:

http://www.soundersfc.com/Matchday/Matches/2010/Season/Friendly-B-Celtic.aspx


----------



## berkshire royal

BoulderGrad said:


> Seattle vs Celtic FC drew 45,000 fans at Qwest today:
> 
> http://www.soundersfc.com/Matchday/Matches/2010/Season/Friendly-B-Celtic.aspx


Very impressive especially seeing as Celtic are a pile of shite who haven't been a big European club for the best part of a decade.


----------



## massp88

berkshire royal said:


> Very impressive especially seeing as Celtic are a pile of shite who haven't been a big European club for the best part of a decade.


That says a lot coming from a presumed Reading fan. Celtic may not be Barcelona, but they are still a quality club that play in a solid league.


----------



## JerseyFKY

LOL. Scottish Prem is a solid league?? Hilarious.


----------



## krudmonk

Yeah, not solid.


----------



## Luke80

massp88 said:


> That says a lot coming from a presumed Reading fan. Celtic may not be Barcelona, but they are still a quality club that play in a solid league.


Face it, he's right.


----------



## KingmanIII

Luke80 said:


> Face it, he's right.


Yeah, league affiliation are really starting to catch up with them, it seems.

Same goes for Rangers.


----------



## GunnerJacket

It is a wonder, to me, that Celtic and Rangers draw the crowds they do when their league is so considerably weak. This isn't an indictment but rather a truism, after all Scotland is but 5M people and just 2 major metro areas. It must be tough playing in front of 50k+ at home and then traveling to Inverness and seeing 5-10k. Which begs two points for soccer in the States:

- This substantiates the MLS stance of trying to get home grounds and allowing clubs to maximize schedules and revenue sources. Even at 12-14k attendances clubs can do much better off financially and better grow their brand. Clearly this aspect of MLS' evolution has been done right.

- There is something to be said about having 1-2 bigger brands among your league membership. Seattle has the home draw but not yet the pedigree to carry this title, but it would be nice if someone like the Galaxy or DC United could begin to show such weight. Having a Yankees or a Cowboys may create bandwagon fans but also polarizes the locals and stimulates additional interest in the league as a whole, whether you're cheering for them or against them. MLS can't do anything to make this happen, but it would be good for the league if it occurs. We need our own Celtic/Barca/ManU.


----------



## mgk920

soup or man said:


> Kind of in the middle of nowhere.


See very recent new Google aerial image of the area:

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=39.121771,-94.824071&spn=0.019377,0.043945&t=k&z=15

The new Wizards stadium, located in a suburban setting in the City of Kansas City, KS, is the construction site in the center of the image, northeast of the NASCAR track. It shows the foundation and some of the stadium's steel already in place. Their current field, that baseball park, is a few blocks to the northwest. The freeway is I-435 and I-70 is just to the south of the image.

Mike


----------



## 1772

JerseyFKY said:


> LOL. Scottish Prem is a solid league?? Hilarious.


Very off topic, but I'ver never understood why Edinburgh hasn't been able to produce a solid team. If Glasgow can do two teams, E-burgh should be able to pull one of?


----------



## Luke80

^^ Tbf at least one of Hearts or Hibernian are always pushing for a European spot.


----------



## 1772

Luke80 said:


> ^^ Tbf at least one of Hearts or Hibernian are always pushing for a European spot.


Well, one could expect a little bit more. Well well. 

---------------------------------------

Hillarious interview with Thierry Henry. 

"So you just won the world cup"
"Ehh, no?"

France droped out of the group stages with not a single win and Spain just won the WC. 
How can an interviewer not no that? hno:

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/good_day_ny/new-york-red-bull-thierry-henry-20100719


----------



## GunnerJacket

SPL is slowly sinking in terms of value and revenues. The nation is comparably too small to sponsor a big-time league while other nations across Europe are improving their venues, revenue sources and global appeal. Scotland had long been bunched with Netherlands, Portugal and other leagues just outside the top tier, but now risks losing ground to those and to the Ukraine, Russia, and even Greece had they not blown their economy. Neither of those leagues has a commodity like Celtic or Rangers, but their larger populations and economic base are fostering more sustainable and competitive domestic leagues. SPL is trapped fiscally, and I could go on but will stop here.

Questions about MLS venues:

- Anyone have ANY recent news about DC's efforts to find a true home? 
- I'd heard Columbus' ownership was considering some renovations at the Crew Stadium. T or F?
- Houston - Do we have a problem? Everything seems all quiet on the Dynamo front regarding the political and financial approval to move forward with their new home.
- San Jose, same as above (ironically enough).


----------



## ryebreadraz

GunnerJacket said:


> Questions about MLS venues:
> 
> - Anyone have ANY recent news about DC's efforts to find a true home?
> - I'd heard Columbus' ownership was considering some renovations at the Crew Stadium. T or F?
> - Houston - Do we have a problem? Everything seems all quiet on the Dynamo front regarding the political and financial approval to move forward with their new home.
> - San Jose, same as above (ironically enough).


- Nothing new on DC. They're "evaluating sites," which has been their code for "crap, we have no idea where to try now" for the last dozen years. Baltimore is a very real possibility.

- There was talk about Columbus making some improvements, but it looks like it won't be anything more than parking lot improvements that were promised long ago and maybe some basic maintenance.

- Houston is moving along just fine. They've crossed all the major hurdles, including securing the land from the city and infrastructure costs from the city and county and $20 million from the country on construction. The post-construction lease has been finished and all of that stuff is done. The Dynamo/AEG are finalizing the stadium plans right now and there are rumors that the plans will be revealed at the All-Star Game. Construction is set to begin in October/November and it is supposed to be ready for the 2012 season.

- San Jose is in a very different situation because they just got a plan up and basic approval from the city, but have no means of financing the stadium. They're still in that same spot. When they have the money to build it, they will, but nobody has any idea when that might happen.


----------



## BergenScooterPatrol

Seeing football (soccer) being played in Fenway in Boston was so cool! I hope somebody can post some pictures. I like what they did to the venue, turning the baseball field into a soccer pitch, with the Green Monster at the background, and sidelines running along the 3rd base / left field foul line. and awesome crowd too.


----------



## Inferious

1772 said:


> Well, one could expect a little bit more. Well well.
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> 
> Hillarious interview with Thierry Henry.
> 
> "So you just won the world cup"
> "Ehh, no?"
> 
> France droped out of the group stages with not a single win and Spain just won the WC.
> How can an interviewer not no that? hno:
> 
> http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/good_day_ny/new-york-red-bull-thierry-henry-20100719


shows the ignorance of usa


----------



## nomarandlee

^^ You're awesome. Judging the collective intelligence of a nation based on some news broad didn't know France had a shit world cup. Bravo on you. :cheers:



BergenScooterPatrol said:


> Seeing football (soccer) being played in Fenway in Boston was so cool! I hope somebody can post some pictures. I like what they did to the venue, turning the baseball field into a soccer pitch, with the Green Monster at the background, and sidelines running along the 3rd base / left field foul line. and awesome crowd too.


I was surprised that they could fit a soccer field on the Fenway grounds. Did they have to alter the dimensions of the field at all? I wonder if they could do the same thing at Wrigley. I know the Chicago Sting used to play a few games back in the 70's but they have added some seats since then. Lord knows if they can do the new owners will try to get some games at Wrigley as well.


----------



## slipperydog

nomarandlee said:


> ^^ You're awesome. Judging the collective intelligence of a nation based on some news broad didn't know France had a shit world cup. Bravo on you. :cheers:
> 
> 
> I was surprised that they could fit a soccer field on the Fenway grounds. Did they have to alter the dimensions of the field at all? I wonder if they could do the same thing at Wrigley. I know the Chicago Sting used to play a few games back in the 70's but they have added some seats since then. Lord knows if they can do the new owners will try to get some games at Wrigley as well.


The pitch was actually 12 yards shorter than regulation.

Photos located here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=676682&page=3


----------



## slipperydog

New model of KC stadium


----------



## metros11

ryebreadraz said:


> - Nothing new on DC. They're "evaluating sites," which has been their code for "crap, we have no idea where to try now" for the last dozen years. Baltimore is a very real possibility.


IMO DC United is dead in the water. In a few years if nothing is planned in North Virginia they'll be an excellent candidate for relocation.



ryebreadraz said:


> - There was talk about Columbus making some improvements, but it looks like it won't be anything more than parking lot improvements that were promised long ago and maybe some basic maintenance.


Paving the lot is a HUGE improvement. Having experienced it myself, it's not a secret that as soon as it rains the cars go nowhere. Therefore fans tend to avoid the stadium like the black plague if a cloud is on the horizon.



ryebreadraz said:


> - Houston is moving along just fine. They've crossed all the major hurdles, including securing the land from the city and infrastructure costs from the city and county and $20 million from the country on construction. The post-construction lease has been finished and all of that stuff is done. The Dynamo/AEG are finalizing the stadium plans right now and there are rumors that the plans will be revealed at the All-Star Game. Construction is set to begin in October/November and it is supposed to be ready for the 2012 season.


Nice.



ryebreadraz said:


> - San Jose is in a very different situation because they just got a plan up and basic approval from the city, but have no means of financing the stadium. They're still in that same spot. When they have the money to build it, they will, but nobody has any idea when that might happen.


I'm sure Krudmonk will chime in, but as far as I'm concerned we may never see a San Jose stadium. Thing is, Wolff bought into MLS knowing that the Silicon Valley had a huge soccer loving population. However immigrants and soccer playing kids do not translate into MLS fans. So when he couldn't pack a 10,000 seat college stadium he realized that the Quakes may not have been a sure thing he thought of. So now the official stance is that they need $5M more in sponsorship money to help finance the stadium. However, no one really knows whether it's just $5 million or $5M over 20 years, that part hasn't been explained, and probably with good reason.


----------



## krudmonk

Our ownership group is wrapped up in MLB relocation drama. They have way more money invested there than in MLS. It's a big bank account in limbo and no hope of significant public assistance. Despite that, the site is currently still being cleared and prepped.

In the meantime, they have built a training facility and established a youth academy quite recently, so I don't understand your theory about them second guessing the purchase. A lot of that conjecture is pretty baseless.


----------



## mattec

slipperydog said:


> New model of KC stadium


looks nice. I like this one better than RBA


----------



## Inferious

nomarandlee said:


> ^^ You're awesome. Judging the collective intelligence of a nation based on some news broad didn't know France had a shit world cup. Bravo on you. :cheers:


ok not everyone is like that in us, but alot of people i know are so im just saying


----------



## Scba

Kansas City stadium is just the same as every other MLS stadium, but with a roof. And no room for possible expansion.


----------



## nomarandlee

Inferious said:


> ok not everyone is like that in us, but alot of people i know are so im just saying


Yes, because anyone around the world who doesn't know that France had a bad world cup is a highly unculturaled and igrnorant slob. 
A lot of Europeans are Eurocentirc and have highly inflated supremacist opinions of themselves, just saying.......


----------



## Rev Stickleback

Scba said:


> Kansas City stadium is just the same as every other MLS stadium, but with a roof. And no room for possible expansion.


A roof doesn't stop a stadium being expanded, if that was what you were implying.

Covered stands get expanded pretty regularly in Europe.


----------



## Rev Stickleback

nomarandlee said:


> Yes, because anyone around the world who doesn't know that France had a bad world cup is a highly unculturaled and igrnorant slob.
> A lot of Europeans are Eurocentirc and have highly inflated supremacist opinions of themselves, just saying.......


the problem wasn't that the interviewer didn't know how France had done - that would be forgiveable - but more that they somehow believed his team had just won the world cup. How does anyone get that so badly wrong?


----------



## massp88

Did anyone attend any other the European club games recently? Man U at Philly, Tottenham at Red Bulls, etc. We there good crowds? Anyone have pictures?


----------



## jay stew

massp88 said:


> Did anyone attend any other the European club games recently? Man U at Philly, Tottenham at Red Bulls, etc. We there good crowds? Anyone have pictures?


No pics, but the Man U-Philly game drew 44,213 and the Spurs-Red Bulls game drew 20,312.


----------



## Inferious

nomarandlee said:


> Yes, because anyone around the world who doesn't know that France had a bad world cup is a highly unculturaled and igrnorant slob.
> A lot of Europeans are Eurocentirc and have highly inflated supremacist opinions of themselves, just saying.......


hey i didnt say the first part, but everything else is your opinion.


----------



## KingmanIII

jay stew said:


> No pics, but the Man U-Philly game drew 44,213 and the Spurs-Red Bulls game drew 20,312.


The Wizards/Mancs match (which I'm attending today) sold 40,000 tickets as of two weeks ago, and sold out as of two days ago. 

(I snatched one of the last tickets!) :banana:


----------



## ryebreadraz

DC United President Kevin Payne spoke about the stadium situation today and basically said that Baltimore is far and away the leader right now. They're waiting on a feasibility study on a Baltimore site to come back, but see a path towards getting a stadium there. It's their only possible site in Maryland right now and they aren't close to a site or financing in Virginia or DC.


----------



## Alx-D

ryebreadraz said:


> DC United President Kevin Payne spoke about the stadium situation today and basically said that Baltimore is far and away the leader right now. They're waiting on a feasibility study on a Baltimore site to come back, but see a path towards getting a stadium there. It's their only possible site in Maryland right now and they aren't close to a site or financing in Virginia or DC.


Would it become Baltimore United?


----------



## Archbishop

Alx-D said:


> Would it become Baltimore United?


I like Maryland United better.


----------



## ryebreadraz

I don't think they would use DC, Baltimore or DC in their name. All of it is close enough that I think they come up for something awful sounding, but keeps them from alienating their potential fan base in Maryland, Virginia or DC.


----------



## Archbishop

ryebreadraz said:


> I don't think they would use DC, Baltimore or DC in their name. All of it is close enough that I think they come up for something awful sounding, but keeps them from alienating their potential fan base in Maryland, Virginia or DC.


Mid-Atlantic United? That fits your description.


----------



## slipperydog

Chesapeake Bay FC

Baltimore 1812


----------



## Archbishop

Those are definitely bad ones. I like Maryland United.


----------



## KingmanIII

"United," "Real," "Dynamo," and sundry other cheesy knockoffs of prestigious European clubs need to stop.

Chesapeake Bay FC sounds the best.


----------



## BoulderGrad

KingmanIII said:


> "United," "Real," "Dynamo," and sundry other cheesy knockoffs of prestigious European clubs need to stop.
> 
> Chesapeake Bay FC sounds the best.


How bout just Chesapeake FC?


----------



## KingmanIII

^^ I was thinking the same thing


----------



## derzberb

KingmanIII said:


> "United," "Real," "Dynamo," and sundry other cheesy knockoffs of prestigious European clubs need to stop.
> 
> Chesapeake Bay FC sounds the best.


Agree. Would like to hear some more original and UNIQUE American.

What ist "Chesapeake"? Is it Indian (native American)? This sounds best.


----------



## derzberb

KingmanIII said:


> "United," "Real," "Dynamo," and sundry other cheesy knockoffs of prestigious European clubs need to stop.


What about: "FC Bayern Baltimore"??? Muhahhaa :cheers1:

(sorry)


----------



## Scba

How about I go on my anti-FC-club-names-in-MLS tirade?


----------



## GunnerJacket

DC United deserves more credit than it gets. Sometime after the names were originally released the owners offered how they wanted to recall the city's role as capital for the country and all the sentimental history about gathering people together as a nation. "E pluribus unum," "United We Stand," and all that. That it happens to be an established namesake for soccer made it all the better.

Don't get me wrong, they clearly played off the Manchester/Newcastle/Leeds... brands, but there's as much play in the namesake for DC as Union for Philly. The logo could use some work, but the name is well done, IMO.


----------



## Archbishop

Scba said:


> How about I go on my anti-FC-club-names-in-MLS tirade?


I would enjoy this. It makes absolutely no sense and it is way more Euro-poser than United since the sport is called SOCCER, not football in America!


----------



## Scba

Archbishop said:


> I would enjoy this. It makes absolutely no sense and it is way more Euro-poser than United since the sport is called SOCCER, not football in America!


If a league that wants to be taken seriously is going to have teams with "football" in their title when the league itself is called Major League Soccer...I mean, yeah. I will not support that.


----------



## massp88

Scba said:


> If a league that wants to be taken seriously is going to have teams with "football" in their title when the league itself is called Major League Soccer...I mean, yeah. I will not support that.


The name MLS, or Major League Soccer has always and will always be a poor name for the league in my mind.



BoulderGrad said:


> How bout just Chesapeake FC?


Why would naming a team after a body of water be a good thing?


----------



## sbutlik

*Michigan new soccer stadium*










about 3,000 seat


----------



## derzberb

Archbishop said:


> I would enjoy this. It makes absolutely no sense and it is way more Euro-poser than United since the sport is called SOCCER, not football in America!


agree. this is ridiculous. even in Italy soccer (or footbal as you like) is called CALCIO. So, many teams there call themselves AC, where "C" stands for CALCIO ("A" for "association"), eg "Como Calcio", "AC Milan", "AC Torino". No team there would take "FC" as name. Just keep it unique American.

p.s. in Munich we call it "Fuaßboi"


----------



## KingmanIII

derzberb said:


> What about: "FC Bayern Baltimore"??? Muhahhaa :cheers1:
> 
> (sorry)


:lol:

no, no...

Atlético Baltimore CF


----------



## Archbishop

CD Inter Real AC Atletico Bayern Baltimore United Wanderering Rovers FC


----------



## slipperydog

massp88 said:


> Why would naming a team after a body of water be a good thing?


FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Tampa Bay Rays

Not sure what's wrong with it...


----------



## krudmonk

massp88 said:


> Why would naming a team after a body of water be a good thing?


----------



## Bobby3

I wish I could get worked up over something as stupid as putting FC, SC, or AFC on the end of, or at the beginning of, a team name.

Oh wait, no I don't, because the people that do that are incredibly stupid.

For the love of God it's a team name not an affront to your national identity, no one said you have to support them.

In the top four levels of the American/Canadian "pyramid" there are no fewer than 132 (one-hundred thirty-two) clubs to choose from. I'm fairly certain you can find one that fits your needs. Unless, of course, you're to self-entitled to support anything that isn't at the top level. Those are just the male teams, there are also 86 female teams.


----------



## Luke80

weava said:


> I'll chime in on the "FC" debate. I hate the term "FC" in america, I'm an average american(only reading this thread because I love stadiums) that hates soccer because its more boring than baseball and watching paint dry combined. Don't try to force "futbol" down are freaking throats when your sport already has a name "soccer". People who call soccer by the name football in america are just trying to come across as "worldly cultured" or whatever but all it does is make you look like a stuck up douchbag who hates america since you are insulting American football by doing so.
> USA! USA! USA!


Someone went fishing then - I bite.

[rant]

The 'FC' thing has nothing to do with that. Every *football club* in Europe has FC or AFC or CF or CD in it's full name somewhere. Only US commentators say Arsenal FC or Manchester United FC, no-one else over here! The names of all MLS sides would be Kansas City Wizards FC, Toronto FC FC etc. but the FC remains silent and left off in most instances! But then that sounds crap...

It's people in your country who have become accustomed to saying 'FC' which has somehow made it acceptable to use it as a team name. I can't stand these stupid team names without the added confusion of using FC in the wrong context. Use team names for American sports, not for non-American ones.

Paranoid tw*t. :lol:

For example, the Eastern conference MLS table should look like this:

1. Columbus
2. New York
3. Toronto
4. Chicago
5. Kansas
6. Philadelphia
7. New England
8. Washington D.C.

The 'FC' is part of the official name but there's no need to quote it everywhere! E.g. _Washington D.C. Football Club_ or if you're that desperate _Washington D.C. Soccer Club_.

Now before anyone starts the 'but we have multiple sports teams in our cities', so do we. It's isn't that hard to tell between MLS, NFL and MLB is it?

[/rant]


----------



## warpus

Luke80 said:


> Someone went fishing then - I bite.
> 
> [rant]
> 
> The 'FC' thing has nothing to do with that. Every *football club* in Europe has FC or AFC or CF or CD in it's full name somewhere. Only US commentators say Arsenal FC or Manchester United FC, no-one else over here! The names of all MLS sides would be Kansas City Wizards FC, Toronto FC FC etc. but the FC remains silent and left off in most instances! But then that sounds crap...
> 
> It's people in your country who have become accustomed to saying 'FC' which has somehow made it acceptable to use it as a team name. I can't stand these stupid team names without the added confusion of using FC in the wrong context. Use team names for American sports, not for non-American ones.
> 
> Paranoid tw*t. :lol:
> 
> For example, the Eastern conference MLS table should look like this:
> 
> 1. Columbus
> 2. New York
> 3. Toronto
> 4. Chicago
> 5. Kansas
> 6. Philadelphia
> 7. New England
> 8. Washington D.C.
> 
> The 'FC' is part of the official name but there's no need to quote it everywhere! E.g. _Washington D.C. Football Club_ or if you're that desperate _Washington D.C. Soccer Club_.
> 
> Now before anyone starts the 'but we have multiple sports teams in our cities', so do we. It's isn't that hard to tell between MLS, NFL and MLB is it?
> 
> [/rant]


Who gives a crap? I'm a TFC supporter, we'll call our club what we want. It's our club after all.


----------



## GunnerJacket

I move that we abandon the name calling and get back to stadiums and earnest MLS talk. Second, anyone?

:cheers:


Alan, thanks for the updated attendance stats. Nice to see NY is doing their part with the new venue, and it only highlights how frustrating it is to see DC, with their more/equally passionate support unable to enjoy comparable benefits.

Philly's attendance will drop slightly now that they're in their new home, but as far as I know they're sold out throughout the season so they should remain above 18-19k. KC is restrained by their current venue and I don't think you could ask for more from LA, Houston, Salt Lake, Toronto and Seattle.

Of the remaining lot I realize team performance plays a large part of this, but I'm disappointed Colorado, Chicago and Columbus can't do better. I know the Crew has two games early in the season in truly crappy weather, but with an MLS cup under their belt and a decent side in a town without baseball surely they can crawl over the 14k mark? The Fire, meanwhile, have one of the better stadiums, I think, and Bridgeview is at least more accessible and alive than some other remote MLS venues. Plus we're talking Chicago!! If those teams could up their average about 1,000 per that would truly help the league, plus I think they'd begin to cross that tipping point in establishing strong atmosphere for every game.

Get KC and Houston into their new homes and you're already looking at a possible 17k league average. Then consider that Portland and Montreal should be able to match or beat that and I think it's highly possible that in 10 years time MLS could average 20k per game! THAT would be saying something for soccer in the US.

:cheers:


----------



## Archbishop

There will be a bigger attendance bump now with Red Bull having Henry and Marquez and the Galaxy will always be a road draw with Landon Donovan.


----------



## nomarandlee

GunnerJacket said:


> Of the remaining lot I realize team performance plays a large part of this, but I'm disappointed Colorado, Chicago and Columbus can't do better. I know the Crew has two games early in the season in truly crappy weather, but with an MLS cup under their belt and a decent side in a town without baseball surely they can crawl over the 14k mark? The Fire, meanwhile, have one of the better stadiums, I think, and Bridgeview is at least more accessible and alive than some other remote MLS venues. Plus we're talking Chicago!! If those teams could up their average about 1,000 per that would truly help the league, plus I think they'd begin to cross that tipping point in establishing strong atmosphere for every game.


I'll repeat what I said about the Fire stadium over at another forum...............




> _Some Fire fans disagree with me but I also think that the Chicago Fire chose wrong when they decided to go to near suburban Bridgeview to put their stadium. In retrospect I think they should have tried to find a place more near the city center or they should have gone full blown soccer mom and built the stadium out by suburban Arlington race track. They didn't very well when they were downtown at Soldier either.
> 
> .......It would be interesting to see how it would do if had an Orange Line stop and from an accessibility standpoint that is really the only hope for it. An Arlington Metra stop would have trumped the limited service that is there now though I would think. As of right now I don't think the stadium seems all that convenient either by transit or even much by auto (2.5 miles from the Stevenson) in the middle corridor of industry, rail yards, cemeteries, and an airport. As it is it doesn't seem to be based well to lure people from a surrounding neighborhood/town let alone further out suburbanites or city dwellers._


It also might work against the Fire that Chicago is a baseball town in the summer and it has two teams to go watch. Like LA, Bay metro, NYC, there is a home baseball game nearly every night to go attend if one wants.

I haven't yet been there for soccer but I have been there for concerts and I was frankly rather underwhelmed with the stadium and it isn't an enjoyable venue to get in and out of.

The Fire built the stadium where they did partially for demographic reasons (near the heart of the metros sizable Latino community). It is on the edge of the city and not in the heart of the affluent of the suburbs. It doesn't have the catche of being near city the center and it doesn't have surburban draw it would have it gone to say Glenview, Arlington Heights, or Naperville. They built it a kind of no mans land that at first glance would seem to be well situated to pull in both city and suburban peeps but in actuallity may be out of the way enough to pull in either very well.


----------



## Livno80101

Alan21LP said:


> http://www.mls-daily.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New York Red Bulls vs Los Angeles Galaxy match at RBA is sold out.
> 
> http://www.newyorkredbulls.com/news/2010/07/los-angeles-galaxy-match-sold-out


*Quakes *are embarrassment. Been there twice this season. Empty. Bad atmosphere. Seems like *SJ *dont need this franchise. And same goes for *LA's* second team and *Boston *too. And I think they will leave MLS soon, in period of 3-5 years, if nothing good (like title or big name signing) happens there.

And, on other hand, *Seattle *is fabulous (hope they'll trash Metapan today). Been there on season opener :bow:. And their attendance just goes up. Same goes for *NY *(new stadium did what it was supposed to) and *Dallas *:nuts:. Didnt know they had such a great growth, 30% - second biggest :bow:


----------



## kuquito

I love Kara Lang, she's a hottie and a great soccer player.






soup or man said:


> Here is the logo and uniforms for the Vancouver Whitecaps.


----------



## massp88

Archbishop said:


> There will be a bigger attendance bump now with Red Bull having Henry and Marquez and the Galaxy will always be a road draw with Landon Donovan.


His days are numbered IMO. One of the Premier League teams will throw a ton money and get him. He needs to go to Europe.


----------



## Archbishop

I don't see why he "needs" to go to Europe. MLS has already said they won't transfer him. I'm sure they would for a huge contract but how would he benefit by going to Manchester City?


----------



## mattec

I thought Landon didn't want to play full time for a euro club after his bad expaeriance in germany


----------



## Benn

I think he would jump at a chance to play for Everton full time, but that doesn't seem very likely at the moment. The Leverkusen experience was appearently awful for everyone involved. But his Everton loan seemd to go great for him and the club.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Livno80101 said:


> *Quakes *are embarrassment. Been there twice this season. Empty. Bad atmosphere. Seems like *SJ *dont need this franchise. And same goes for *LA's* second team and *Boston *too. And I think they will leave MLS soon, in period of 3-5 years, if nothing good (like title or big name signing) happens there.


I agree with you on Chivas, but San Jose's stadium only holds 10,300 to begin with according to Wiki. So even with the drop in numbers (Which I attribute to them not having any games at Oakland Coliseum yet), they're still opperating at over 90% capacity at a fairly shitty stadium.

How do you mean leave MLS? Fairly rare for teams to outright fold anymore (not that it doesnt happen, like Miami and Tampa), but more likely for them to move rather than cease operations. 

I still don't get the idea of the 2nd team in LA when the first one can't even sell out games, nor do I get all the talk of a 2nd team in NY. How bout move Chivas to Miami or some other soccer thirsty city, DC united wil probably end up in Bmore as has been said, and put an expansion team in a new city like St Louis 



> And, on other hand, *Seattle *is fabulous (hope they'll trash Metapan today). Been there on season opener :bow:. And their attendance just goes up. Same goes for *NY *(new stadium did what it was supposed to) and *Dallas *:nuts:. Didnt know they had such a great growth, 30% - second biggest :bow:


Again, the attendance numbers are all relative. Dallas is averaging 11,000 people in a 21,000 seat stadium. Yes, a vast improvement on the paltry 8,000 fans/game they were averaging last year, but going from really crappy to just crappy is still crappy.


----------



## SJAnfield

Livno80101 said:


> *Quakes *are embarrassment. Been there twice this season. Empty. Bad atmosphere. Seems like *SJ *dont need this franchise. And same goes for *LA's* second team and *Boston *too. And I think they will leave MLS soon, in period of 3-5 years, if nothing good (like title or big name signing) happens there.
> 
> And, on other hand, *Seattle *is fabulous (hope they'll trash Metapan today). Been there on season opener :bow:. And their attendance just goes up. Same goes for *NY *(new stadium did what it was supposed to) and *Dallas *:nuts:. Didnt know they had such a great growth, 30% - second biggest :bow:


Ok, the stadium has been far from empty. The only time it was empty was for a Wednesday night Open Cup match that nobody gives a damn about. The other early games we didn't reach capacity in the season coincided with the Sharks during their playoff run, and as much as I love the Quakes, they are no match when the Sharkies are on the ice. Besides the age-old gripes about the front office failing to advertise or make much effort at all letting the city know it has a team, (there are still MANY people in the city who either don't know what the Quakes are or that they even exist), the Quakes are coming off two straight seasons of being in last place and 2nd to last place in the league. The place was at or damned near capacity for those two seasons. As much as I hate to admit it, the Bay Area is a town that loves winners.

I imagine if they ever build the 15-18,000 seat stadium down the street in the near future, (I'm not holding my breath), you will see many straight years of sell-outs. As much as Bay Area residents love winners, they love new shiny things even more. And bad atmosphere? Not every team can be Seattle or Liverpool. Get over it. The stadium is intimate and you are on top of the action. I do admit I will love to see them move into their own stadium, but Buck Shaw is a fine temporary alternative. Plus, San Jose having a few hundred empty seats is still better than a situation in Dallas or Foxboro where they are missing a few thousand. 

I also don't see Wolff moving this team in the near future. I really don't see the league excited at the prospect of moving us either. They got a black eye the first time they did it, and they would look really foolish if it happened a 2nd time. Wolff has gotten through all the paper work, city hall meetings and red tape, now he just needs to put some damn shovels in the ground. Wolff likes the team, and is a fan. In fact he was sitting with us supporters the entire game when we were in LA last Thursday. He has one of the country's largest markets, (I can't remember where we rank. Its like 5th or something), he just needs to get the Bay Area excited about this team like Seattle, Philly and Toronto. I think his mistake was he thought just by bringing the team back the fans would respond in a similar fashion. He needed to get the area excited and put some bucks into marketing and awareness. Also, I don't think enough attention has been given to the fact many of the old fans are still mad at the MLS/Quakes for leaving and don't trust the team yet. They may come back if the new stadium is built and they have some real solidity. Lots of old friends still refuse to come to the games at this point.

I do have to give MAJOR kudos to Seattle. I got to see the Quakes when they played at Qwest this season, and that place knocked my socks off. That was one of the most impressive displays of fan emotion and involvement I've seen in this country. I was totally envious.


----------



## GunnerJacket

nomarandlee said:


> I'll repeat what I said about the Fire stadium over at another forum...............
> 
> ...
> 
> I haven't yet been there for soccer but I have been there for concerts and I was frankly rather underwhelmed with the stadium and it isn't an enjoyable venue to get in and out of.
> 
> The Fire built the stadium where they did partially for demographic reasons (near the heart of the metros sizable Latino community). It is on the edge of the city and not in the heart of the affluent of the suburbs. It doesn't have the catche of being near city the center and it doesn't have surburban draw it would have it gone to say Glenview, Arlington Heights, or Naperville. They built it a kind of no mans land that at first glance would seem to be well situated to pull in both city and suburban peeps but in actuallity may be out of the way enough to pull in either very well.


Duly noted. Everything I've heard recently shares your sentiment, though with more optimism. Perhaps my friends are also more ingrained die-hards so the shortcomings aren't as imposing to them. 

To be sure few of these venues are ideal, and it doesn't help that MLS crowds aren't as large or as economically powerful as, say, NFL teams. If the Fire were pulling in closer to 20k per match I'd have to imagine the area would react more positively and progressively, in line with the ambitions from when the venue was first built.

I also wonder what part the economy is playing in all this. Many of these suburban fringe stadiums were built on the premise of more/continued development to complement the area. I know some of the designs for Harrison have been tailored back due to the economy, and wonder if some of the other plans for Bridgeview has also been impacted.

Hope still abounds.


----------



## SouthmoreAvenue

Nothing new, I presume just reassuring us that everything is going as planned for Houston's new stadium.



> Tim Leiweke, the president of Dynamo co-owner AEG, told the Chronicle that the Dynamo’s *negotiations for a new stadium are completed for the most part and that he expects to break ground at the end of the year for the East End stadium scheduled to open in June 2012. *
> 
> “We are pretty much done, so now we’re papering everything and signing everything,” Leiweke said. “We expect to break ground at the end of the year. We’ve made great progress. We’re very pleased and grateful back to the Sports Authority, the city and the county. Harris County and the city of Houston have been great.


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/soc/7129259.html


----------



## Archbishop

I hope they call it the "East End Stadium". That's a great name. Of course they'll sell naming rights to AT&T or something, but I'd like to imagine that they may keep it as East End.


----------



## massp88

Archbishop said:


> I don't see why he "needs" to go to Europe. MLS has already said they won't transfer him. I'm sure they would for a huge contract but how would he benefit by going to Manchester City?


He needs to go to Europe to validate his career. Europe is where the top leagues in the world are. It's no different than a baseball player from Cuba, or Venezuela leaving their home country to go play in the U.S. where the most money is and the best competition is. I am an MLS fan and I want him to go and think he should go. Ideally he would land in one of the top leagues, either Spain, Germany, France, Italy, England, or Russia. But England seems to be the most likely. He did not do too well when he was on loan in the Budesliga w/ Bayern Munich. 

And any player in the MLS is for sale. If Everton, or Man City threw a boat load of cash at the league, they would let him go. Landon showed solid form during his loan spell at Everton and it would be nice to see him go back on a permanent basis. 

Look at Clint Dempsey, he left New England as has had a great career over with Fulham. He is also the first American to play in a major European club championship game as he did this past year in the Europa League Final against Atletico Madrid. He will be remembered for that.


----------



## massp88

mattec said:


> I thought Landon didn't want to play full time for a euro club after his bad expaeriance in germany


He had a bad loan spell with Bayern Munich. He was never able to get into the flow of things and he had trouble with the coaching staff. During his recent loan spell with Everton he flourished and showed good form. He had a lot of great things to say about manager David Moynes. There was even a keep Landon at Everton Facebook group that had over 10,000 members.


----------



## Livno80101

I, as Everton fan (not hardcore fan, but it is my favorite English team, as like as Lazio in Italy), was impressed with his good performances in winter, when he was in Everton on loan. And I hoped that he could go back there this summer, fans like him, I like him, Moyes said good things about him, he seemed to found great league and great club for himself - as Premierleague suits him way better than Bundesliga (Germany 1st league) - but it seems that wont happen. Bad for him as he is on top of his playing career, and this year was maybe the last chance to sign permanent deal with European side. Those three month loans are rubbish, and I hope he wont do that anymore.

I d like to see him in my club - Dinamo Zagreb of Croatia. :nuts: but that wont happen too.


----------



## 1772

massp88 said:


> He needs to go to Europe to validate his career. Europe is where the top leagues in the world are. It's no different than a baseball player from Cuba, or Venezuela leaving their home country to go play in the U.S. where the most money is and the best competition is. I am an MLS fan and I want him to go and think he should go. Ideally he would land in one of the top leagues, either Spain, Germany, France, Italy, England, or Russia. But England seems to be the most likely. He did not do too well when he was on loan in the Budesliga w/ Bayern Munich.
> 
> And any player in the MLS is for sale. If Everton, or Man City threw a boat load of cash at the league, they would let him go. Landon showed solid form during his loan spell at Everton and it would be nice to see him go back on a permanent basis.
> 
> Look at Clint Dempsey, he left New England as has had a great career over with Fulham. He is also the first American to play in a major European club championship game as he did this past year in the Europa League Final against Atletico Madrid. He will be remembered for that.


Nothing is carved in stone y'know. 
The fact that you're mentioning Russia proves that. Top players going to Russia is a new thing, like two-three years old. 
Don't see why the same couldn't be applied on MLS.


----------



## Livno80101

1772 said:


> Nothing is carved in stone y'know.
> The fact that you're mentioning Russia proves that. Top players going to Russia is a new thing, like two-three years old.
> Don't see why the same couldn't be applied on MLS.


Maybe because of *salary cap*?

Top teams from *Russia *have *loads of money* (teams are owned by suspicious "businessmen") and they can pay top players (like *Kuranyi *in Dinamo or yesterdays signing *Bruno Alves* in Zenit, or many others in last few years - so result is obvious - two UEFA Cups in 3 years). And *USA *can make impact like Russia only if salary cap is made bigger (like 5-6M per year, or make more DP slots - like 5-6) or should be totally removed. I know it is not in American sports tradition, but soccer is not American sport and *must remove salary cap and all that goes with it*, to make league more attractive to foreign players - stars.


----------



## krudmonk

Livno80101 said:


> Maybe because of *salary cap*?
> 
> Top teams from *Russia *have *loads of money* (teams are owned by suspicious "businessmen") and they can pay top players (like *Kuranyi *in Dinamo or yesterdays signing *Bruno Alves* in Zenit, or many others in last few years - so result is obvious - two UEFA Cups in 3 years). And *USA *can make impact like Russia only if salary cap is made bigger (like 5-6M per year, or make more DP slots - like 5-6) or should be totally removed. I know it is not in American sports tradition, but soccer is not American sport and *must remove salary cap and all that goes with it*, to make league more attractive to foreign players - stars.


We have DPs to make it attractive to foreign stars and a salary cap to make it attractive to American fans.


----------



## koolio

I think the salary cap can easily be increased to $6 million but there must be a reason why it isn't. $6 million is chump change for the big market teams but I suppose the Columbus Crew, Real Salt Lake etc would be against such an increase. Either way, as already stated, 3 DP spots is a pretty good compromise. The big market teams are free to spend (to a degree) without jeopardizing parity.


----------



## Archbishop

3 DPs is perfect. Good enough to bring in a team of stars but not make them utterly dominant.


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## hngcm

Alan21LP said:


> http://www.mls-daily.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New York Red Bulls vs Los Angeles Galaxy match at RBA is sold out.
> 
> http://www.newyorkredbulls.com/news/2010/07/los-angeles-galaxy-match-sold-out


Bring the Earthquakes or Chivas USA (and rebrand them) to San Diego. 

We'll expand Torero stadium for them!


----------



## GunnerJacket

hngcm said:


> Bring the Earthquakes or Chivas USA (and rebrand them) to San Diego.
> 
> We'll expand Torero stadium for them!


Take Chivas. Please. The only thing worse for US clubs than a poser nickname or outright corporate branding is literally being a satellite team for some larger club outside the US. San Jose still has some promise and I hold out hope they'd do well once in their own house, plus that's a whole different market (No Cal) while Chivas is simply piling on the LA market.


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## nomarandlee

I wonder if the Quakes would do better if they moved to San Fran or Oakland. I find it rather crazy that in the next five years or so that San Fran may have only one pro team. As an outsider I would kind of like to see it work there.


----------



## BoulderGrad

GunnerJacket said:


> Take Chivas. Please. The only thing worse for US clubs than a poser nickname or outright corporate branding is literally being a satellite team for some larger club outside the US. San Jose still has some promise and I hold out hope they'd do well once in their own house, plus that's a whole different market (No Cal) while Chivas is simply piling on the LA market.


Actually since San Diego is as close to mexico as you're gonna get in Cali (geography wise, no quality of life wise), having a team called Chivas USA in San Diego makes a lot of sense.


----------



## Turbosnail

You know the MLS attendances in the US are quite impressive considering the strength of the other main sports there.. and the scary thing is that it is such a massive untapped market. I mean just doing a quick search on wiki (spare me the 'you can't rely on shitipedia jibes') Seattle Sounders have a higher than average attendance than quite a few top European names - Everton, Tottenham, Benfica, PSV Eindhoven, Bayer Leverkeusen, Lazio etc.. 

The average attendance is higher than quite a few of the European leagues - Portugal, Scotland, Turkey, Russia, Denmark, Poland. I know I might be jumping into the bearpit with these facts but I think the point I'm trying to make is that the US are not that far away from being on a level playing field with Europe with football.


----------



## derzberb

Turbosnail said:


> You know the MLS attendances in the US are quite impressive considering the strength of the other main sports there.. and the scary thing is that it is such a massive untapped market. I mean just doing a quick search on wiki (spare me the 'you can't rely on shitipedia jibes') Seattle Sounders have a higher than average attendance than quite a few top European names - Everton, Tottenham, Benfica, PSV Eindhoven, Bayer Leverkeusen, Lazio etc..
> 
> The average attendance is higher than quite a few of the European leagues - Portugal, Scotland, Turkey, Russia, Denmark, Poland. I know I might be jumping into the bearpit with these facts but I think the point I'm trying to make is that the US are not that far away from being on a level playing field with Europe with football.



Thats absolutely true. Can't wait to see next generation of US-soccer players.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Turbosnail said:


> ... but I think the point I'm trying to make is that the US are not that far away from being on a level playing field with Europe with football.


Before any of our friends from across the pond explode at this thought, let me be the first to say "Let's not go too far."

The attendances for MLS are fair and, most importantly, in line to get even stronger. But MLS as an entity can't compete with major European leagues and clubs. MLS teams don't play as often or as long throughout the year, and what's more telling is that while MLS clubs tend to see weaker draws when they play in the Open Cup or CONCACAF Champions League, the opposite is often true in Europe, where those competitions bring in huge money and are broadcast world wide. So while it's realistically possible for MLS to feature an average attendance that would be top ten in domestic soccer leagues within 10 years, the league will still be well behind the European powers in terms of visibility, fiscal prowess and depth of talent. 

Right now MLS can afford the few Donavans or Henry's, but the major European clubs can each afford a handful of the same. Only when MLS clubs can compete in terms of average club salary will we be able to say the league is even par with Europe.


----------



## 1772

GunnerJacket said:


> Before any of our friends from across the pond explode at this thought, let me be the first to say "Let's not go too far."
> 
> The attendances for MLS are fair and, most importantly, in line to get even stronger. But MLS as an entity can't compete with major European leagues and clubs. *MLS teams don't play as often or as long throughout the year, *and what's more telling is that while MLS clubs tend to see weaker draws when they play in the Open Cup or CONCACAF Champions League, the opposite is often true in Europe, where those competitions bring in huge money and are broadcast world wide. So while it's realistically possible for MLS to feature an average attendance that would be top ten in domestic soccer leagues within 10 years, the league will still be well behind the European powers in terms of visibility, fiscal prowess and depth of talent.
> 
> Right now MLS can afford the few Donavans or Henry's, but the major European clubs can each afford a handful of the same. Only when MLS clubs can compete in terms of average club salary will we be able to say the league is even par with Europe.


Interesting point. Do any of y'all think MLS should switch to Autumn-spring season? Of course with a winter break. 
How 'bout; end of july til december. Break untill end of february; end it in may.


----------



## GunnerJacket

1772 said:


> Interesting point. Do any of y'all think MLS should switch to Autumn-spring season? Of course with a winter break.
> How 'bout; end of july til december. Break untill end of february; end it in may.


Not I. That MLS is doing as well as it has tells me their plan is working. More importantly playing a schedule in line with most European leagues will only place MLS in direct competition with both those leagues and the NFL, college football, the NBA, NHL... Even as an MLS fan I can spend a fall Saturday switching from the Premiership to an ACC or Big Ten football game and back again, and totally forget about our domestic league. (I know, I know: Shame on me.) MLS would really struggle to get mentions on SportsCenter let alone prime spots on ESPN or ABC when faced with that competition, which would in turn drive down the already pitiful value of their TV contracts. 

Stick to what's working, playing in the summer with less competition for TV air time or for fans' disposable income. Other leagues around the globe make it work, and so can MLS.


----------



## nomarandlee

1772 said:


> Interesting point. Do any of y'all think MLS should switch to Autumn-spring season? Of course with a winter break.
> How 'bout; end of july til december. Break untill end of february; end it in may.


I think that would likely be a disaster of an idea. It would have to go up against the NBA and NHL in both seasons and the mammoth NFL in one. 

Right now it goes up primarily against MLB and it situates itself rather well as an alternative during summer evenings to attract the contingent of Americans who just can't give a toss for baseball.

Not only that but the weather is just still too unpredictable in many parts of the US in early spring and late fall to assure strong attendance.


----------



## massp88

1772 said:


> Nothing is carved in stone y'know.
> The fact that you're mentioning Russia proves that. Top players going to Russia is a new thing, like two-three years old.
> Don't see why the same couldn't be applied on MLS.


As others have mentioned, the MLS has a salary cap. And even if the MLS did not have one, they would never be able to out bid a mid to top tier European club. And, what promising 17-19 year old living in say Africa or South America is going to pass up the glamor of playing for a club like Inter Milan, or Chelsea to go and play for the Seattle Sounders? Or the Columbus Crew? That is aside from the MASSIVE difference in pay that player would receive. European clubs have far more money than any MLS club has.

Russia is here to stay in top European competitions. There has been a large influx of money in the past 5-6 years and along with Romania, Greece, Turkey and the Ukraine, a solid contingent of Eastern European clubs are going to continue to make noise amongst their Western European colleagues.


----------



## massp88

Turbosnail said:


> You know the MLS attendances in the US are quite impressive considering the strength of the other main sports there.. and the scary thing is that it is such a massive untapped market. I mean just doing a quick search on wiki (spare me the 'you can't rely on shitipedia jibes') Seattle Sounders have a higher than average attendance than quite a few top European names - Everton, Tottenham, Benfica, PSV Eindhoven, Bayer Leverkeusen, Lazio etc..
> 
> The average attendance is higher than quite a few of the European leagues - Portugal, Scotland, Turkey, Russia, Denmark, Poland. I know I might be jumping into the bearpit with these facts but I think the point I'm trying to make is that the US are not that far away from being on a level playing field with Europe with football.


You have to remember, how many metro areas in say Portugal or Scotland have at least 2-3 million people? The answer is not many. The top teams in those countries, Rangers, Celtics, Braga, Benefica, Porto, Sporting all have solid attendance because they are pretty good and are located in larger metro areas. Also, add in the fact that outside of a few stadiums, more than half the stadiums in the Scottish Premier League have a max attendance of under 15,000.


----------



## Filipe710

Turbosnail said:


> You know the MLS attendances in the US are quite impressive considering the strength of the other main sports there.. and the scary thing is that it is such a massive untapped market. I mean just doing a quick search on wiki (spare me the 'you can't rely on shitipedia jibes') Seattle Sounders have a higher than average attendance than quite a few top European names - Everton, Tottenham, Benfica, PSV Eindhoven, Bayer Leverkeusen, Lazio etc..
> 
> The average attendance is higher than quite a few of the European leagues - Portugal, Scotland, Turkey, Russia, Denmark, Poland. I know I might be jumping into the bearpit with these facts but I think the point I'm trying to make is that the US are not that far away from being on a level playing field with Europe with football.


In Portugal only 5 teams are in areas that have around at least 1 million population, Portugal is a small country so it's normal and around 50% to 60% from Portugal is fan of Benfica. And Seattle don't have bigger average than Benfica, in our worst season in last 10 years our average was 36k, this season we were in the top 10 of teams with bigger averages in Europe, with an average of 50.5k  Before say somethin about averages try to find nice sources


----------



## GunnerJacket

Filipe710 said:


> In Portugal only 5 teams are in areas that have around at least 1 million population, Portugal is a small country so it's normal and around 50% to 60% from Portugal is fan of Benfica. And Seattle don't have bigger average than Benfica, in our worst season in last 10 years our average was 36k, this season we were in the top 10 of teams with bigger averages in Europe, with an average of 50.5k  Before say somethin about averages try to find nice sources


How about ESPN's Soccernet. Do you consider them a fair source?

Portuguse Superliga avg. attendances

2009 - 2010: 11,488
'08-'09: 10,889
'07-'08: 11,534

So for the past three seasons (and beyond) MLS has had a larger per-game average, which is understandable given that Portugal has only about 10M residents and 3-5 perennially decent sides. On average I'd say the soccer is better in the Superliga. But the facts are also that as a league you had more than 10 teams average under 8k fans per game for multiple seasons, whereas the weakest draws in MLS tend to be over that, even with constricted stadiums.

Yes, Benfica can be a draw (though their true avg. hovers around 40k), but they are just one club and your league has had several generations head start over MLS. So it appears you should also be wise in choosing your arguments.

Cheers :cheers:


----------



## SIC

massp88 said:


> You have to remember, how many metro areas in say Portugal or Scotland have at least 2-3 million people? The answer is not many. The top teams in those countries, Rangers, Celtics, Braga, Benefica, Porto, Sporting all have solid attendance because they are pretty good and are located in larger metro areas. Also, add in the fact that outside of a few stadiums, more than half the stadiums in the Scottish Premier League have a max attendance of under 15,000.


Exactly!
That's the thing......the potential in American is massive. It wont happen overnight......it might not happen at all. But all these investors are banking that it will keep growing. That one day, we'll be sitting at the big boy table.

But what will really improve the playing quality, will be the improving technique in American players. Only now, are you seeing MLS clubs with full European style academies. Kids like 17 year old Andy Najar will be more common, instead of 22 year old "rookies" who spent the best part of the formative years not being able to practice due to NCAA rules. *rollseyes*
I think MLS might become an export league, with the money being invested into academies and signings like Henry. But it will be a self-sustaining and stable business model.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBdVqCIuKTo

Theres talent in the States that is being overlooked, but MLS teams are waking up to it.
Gabriel Funes was in Dallas Texas with FC Dallas for a bit...but moved to Argentina and was signed by River Plate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skIwfSofjhI


----------



## 1772

massp88 said:


> As others have mentioned, the MLS has a salary cap. And even if the MLS did not have one, they would never be able to out bid a mid to top tier European club. And, what promising 17-19 year old living in say Africa or South America is going to pass up the glamor of playing for a club like Inter Milan, or Chelsea to go and play for the Seattle Sounders? Or the Columbus Crew? That is aside from the MASSIVE difference in pay that player would receive. European clubs have far more money than any MLS club has.
> 
> Russia is here to stay in top European competitions. There has been a large influx of money in the past 5-6 years and along with Romania, Greece, Turkey and the Ukraine, a solid contingent of Eastern European clubs are going to continue to make noise amongst their Western European colleagues.


If young kids (and experienced players) can go to some eastern european hole just to play for money, they sure can go to Seattle or Columbus...


----------



## massp88

krudmonk said:


> Of which sports are we speaking here?


It doesn't matter which sport. The previous poster, 1772, said quote "Shaktar Donetsk, CFR Cluj, Unirea Urziceni, Rubin Kazan are all eastern european holes filled with soviet arcitechture and depressing cities." So that would mean the cities of Cluj-Napoca, Donetsk, Kazan and Urziceni are all dumpy cities in the opinion of 1772. I have been to Donetsk and Cluj-Napoca and they are both fine cities.


----------



## derzberb

diablo234 said:


> Houston Dynamo Stadium Renderings


This one is impressive. The second level is much bigger than the first. In reality this gives the impression that is even bigger than it is actually. To confirm this impression take a look at AOL-Arena in Hamburg FRG or Nou Camp in Barcelona.

Another point: This ground seems to be close to the city center - is it?


----------



## Inferious

krudmonk said:


> Of which sports are we speaking here?
> 
> So it's just a coincidence that they have a new stadium right before this upcoming tournament when they previously had to put up with this thing?


the stadium was already an idea before euro. once ukraine got the euro it just started construction sooner then without euro.


----------



## krudmonk

Haha, an idea is so far from a reality. You'd need two hands just to count the ideas still on the table here in California alone.


----------



## ryebreadraz

derzberb said:


> Another point: This ground seems to be close to the city center - is ist?


The new Houston stadium is in the city center, right by the baseball stadium and very near two rail lines, I believe. The best thing about the stadium is definitely its location. It's perfect.


----------



## WMS

krudmonk said:


> Haha, an idea is so far from a reality. You'd need two hands just to count the ideas still on the table here in California alone.


Donbass Arena was not an idea before we (PL&UA) got Euro. It was under construction.


----------



## krudmonk

WMS said:


> Donbass Arena was not an idea before we (PL&UA) got Euro. It was under construction.


Alright then. Point conceded.


----------



## lpioe

Next star for NY:









This will bring in some Mexicans I guess?


----------



## Filipe710

1772 said:


> Shaktar Donetsk, CFR Cluj, Unirea Urziceni, Rubin Kazan are all eastern european holes filled with soviet arcitechture and depressing cities.
> 
> THey have nothing against Seattle och Columbus. Hahaha, any other MLS-team?! Are you for real?!
> Shaktar Donetsk before Red Bull New York?! HAHAHAHA
> :lol:


What is the biggest competion of teams in the World? Champions League I guess and Shaktar is always there so it's way better to have the chance to play Champions League than to play MLS, MLS is actually a weak league and around 50% or even more wouldn't be able to reach a european top team.


----------



## krudmonk

You're basically just saying that this club is good by association...


----------



## Luke80

Filipe710 said:


> What is the biggest competion of teams in the World? Champions League I guess and *Shaktar is always there* so it's way better to have the chance to play Champions League than to play MLS, MLS is actually a weak league and around 50% or even more wouldn't be able to reach a european top team.


Not necessarily disagreeing with your point but they really aren't always there!


----------



## masterpaul

krudmonk said:


> To be fair, that is more the fruit of Euro 2012 than the club.


This stadium was being built before, they got euro 2012.


----------



## metros11

1772 said:


> Are you for real?!
> Shaktar Donetsk before Red Bull New York?! HAHAHAHA
> :lol:


Are you for fake? Seriously though, if you compare Shakhtar to the Red Bulls the miners win out by a mile. You're talking about one of the best clubs in Europe. Maybe you'd have more credibility if you mentioned Obolon or Kryvbas.


----------



## metros11

Inferious said:


> look at this stadium that shakhtar plays in and try and compare that to the stadium red bull plays in. and dont tell me oh shakhtar has a rich owner or anything because bottom line is they have this stadium and no mls team comes close.
> dont compare mls teams to eastern european teams. winning a europa league or any other cup in europe by players is better then playing in mls and winning no big trophies.


You have a point about Donbass Arena, and you can even include Metalist Stadium and the new Dnipro ground. But if you consider how many new facilities are popping up across the US compared to what most of Ukraine has planned, then I think US certainly wins out in that respect. And playing in Europe may be prestigious, but there are realistically only two clubs from Ukraine that can vie for a UEFA Cup trophy. Well... maybe even Metalist...


----------



## metros11

krudmonk said:


> To be fair, that is more the fruit of Euro 2012 than the club.


Completely wrong.


----------



## metros11

krudmonk said:


> Haha, an idea is so far from a reality. You'd need two hands just to count the ideas still on the table here in California alone.


The stadium was in the plans and financing in place before the Euros were awarded. This stadium (just like Dnipro, Metalist and Chornomorets) was privately financed. Euro had no effect on Donbass Arena, but I'm sure that the stadium itself played a part in Ukraine getting the Euros.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Let's advance this conversation to it's end folks:

European clubs have access to the most lucrative club competition in the world, and as such larger clubs in major cities have the ability to exceed the money and popularity of any team in MLS for the foreseeable future. Even for less familiar, second tier powers like Donetsk, Fenerbache, Sparta Prague, etc. The smaller nations in Europe, however, face limitations due to domestic market size and the oligopoly enjoyed by Europe's largest clubs.

Conversely, MLS is less dependent on a UEFA-style funding source and will ultimately grow based on its much larger market potential. Where most domestic European leagues will feature a few powers and some clubs from towns barely able to sustain 8k per game, every MLS team has a metro market of > 1M to draw from and thus the potential for greater domestic revenues. Put more simply, it's easier to envision any MLS club reaching and surpassing 20k in attendance than it is to do the same in, for example, Portugal, Greece, Poland, and so forth. 

So while no single MLS club may ever breach the list of most valuable and largest supported clubs in the world, the league as a whole has the potential to exceed many other _leagues_ in terms of overall domestic popularity. If/when that happens, the quality of life within the US could easily lure many international players versus playing for an eastern European club not involved in UEFA play.


----------



## SouthmoreAvenue

derzberb said:


> This one is impressive. The second level is much bigger than the first. In reality this gives the impression that is even bigger than it is actually. To confirm this impression take a look at AOL-Arena in Hamburg FRG or Nou Camp in Barcelona.
> 
> Another point: This ground seems to be close to the city center - is it?


Directly across the city center, if its one thing Houston does right, its making sure all of our stadia is in the urban core.


----------



## derzberb

Heres picture of AOL-Arena. To me it loks like a 70k capacity while it is only 57k.

In my opinion this effect is caused by the second level which is more than twice bigger than the first:

http://www.minibild.de/images/image251.htm

This is how it looks like if this relation of size is reversed (Veltins-Arena)

http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...a_T-Home_Cup.jpg&filetimestamp=20100214141153

This is not that impressive.

So, generally, the socond level should outreach the first by far.


----------



## 1772

metros11 said:


> Are you for fake? Seriously though, if you compare Shakhtar to the Red Bulls the miners win out by a mile. You're talking about one of the best clubs in Europe. Maybe you'd have more credibility if you mentioned Obolon or Kryvbas.


One of the best clubs in Europe?! 
Jeez, can we get serious here?


----------



## mattec

so..., any recent construction photos from the new KC stadium?


----------



## bd popeye

JYDA..we can continue to disagree. You have your opinion and I have mine.

Thank you for posting yours.



> so..., any recent construction photos from the new KC stadium?


click on the link below.

http://webcams.insightkc.com/kcwizards/


----------



## weava

massp88 said:


> Ummm. maybe black people in the U.S. feel that way


It may sound steriotypical, but black americans really only play basketball and football. That is where the scholarships to go to college are at and thats where the money is to be made in the pros for them. Colleges only offer partial schollys for baseball which articles I've read have said is the reason blacks are becoming less interested in baseball as a high school sport.

And here is a clip from my favorite TV episode, its the american way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFJ-UjolD3U&feature=related


----------



## SJAnfield

weava said:


> It may sound steriotypical


No, just racist


----------



## rantanamo

weava said:


> It may sound steriotypical, but black americans really only play basketball and football. That is where the scholarships to go to college are at and thats where the money is to be made in the pros for them. Colleges only offer partial schollys for baseball which articles I've read have said is the reason blacks are becoming less interested in baseball as a high school sport.
> 
> And here is a clip from my favorite TV episode, its the american way
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFJ-UjolD3U&feature=related


Baseball does have the advantage of paying prospects straight out of high school, or even younger. 

Baseball in the US suffers from the same thing soccer soccer suffers from in the US. Both have been claimed by the suburbs and dominated by the wealthy and upper-middle class suburbs. I went through the whole travel baseball saga growing up. Signing up for even a local league includes entry fee, uniform, glove, batting gloves because of the terrible grip on aluminum bats, spikes, bat bag, your own bat(because parents have gotten to the point of not wanting other kids using their kid's bat), your own helmet(see your own bat). Take this up another notch if your kid travels. Home and Away unis with an alternate(I was on a team called the Marlins and our unis were nicer than the Florida Marlins authentics), weekly pair of batting gloves(so much batting you wear them out), batting cage costs(traveling a lot so this is necessary for practice), travel costs(hotels, etc), specialized gloves by infield, outfield or first base, matching team jackets and bat bags, fancier bats, etc, etc, etc. Yes we had sponsors, but they didn't fray the costs enough.

The suburbs have done the same thing to soccer. That's why my sister moved on to Volleyball. Yes they travel, but with a sponsor it was pretty low cost in comparison.

Football on the other hand, would appear to be as expensive. But youth football teams are very inclusionary and have less individualized equipment. Usually a youth league will keep pads and helmets from donations and fundraisers. My dad used to run a youth league, and the costs were actually really low. We had helmets and pads for any kid that needed them. High schools would donate helmets when they changed unis. Shoulder pads were easy to come by as the manufacturers would give them away with minimal defects that could easily be refurbished and certified by the same manufacturer. Even the NFL and NCAA give lots of money to youth programs(the MLB does only a little in the US, but gives lots of money to youth academies in Latin America). 

Yes, African Americans are on a rapid gain of wealth movement, but the disconnect was already made with many adults and it carries over to their children. This is what the MLS and some European clubs need to combat because there's a lot of young talent out there that never gets the chance to see if they could become great soccer players. And that's the argument for many. Its not that you can't get suburban talent, but you can look at pro leagues in the US and see where each player comes from and its highly untapped in the US. I'm not saying all it takes is to be fast, quick and agile, but rather, these fast, quick and agile children whose demographic dominate football and basketball in the US don't even get the opportunity to learn the skills necessary to compete. I think only the professional leagues themselves can change this.


----------



## Commandant

They really built a nice stadium in Atlanta:

KSU Soccer Stadium (cap. 8,300), Kennesaw, GA:


----------



## Benn

Such an interesting layout with the stairs cutting through the suite level to the open concourse above. Nice looking little stadium too, just about any USL team would love to have it.


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## bajanssen

Why is it in almost all US stadiums that one side behind the goal is not used for stands?


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## eMKay

bajanssen said:


> Why is it in almost all US stadiums that one side behind the goal is not used for stands?


Because they also make excellent concert venues, and that's how many of them get built, as multipurpose venues.


----------



## Scba

Am I missing something? How/why does Kennesaw State have such a huge new soccer stadium?


----------



## JYDA

Scba said:


> Am I missing something? How/why does Kennesaw State have such a huge new soccer stadium?


A girls pro soccer (whatever it's called) team plays there.


----------



## ryebreadraz

Scba said:


> Am I missing something? How/why does Kennesaw State have such a huge new soccer stadium?


Also hosts the Atlanta women's professional team.


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## mattec

looks easily expandible for a future mls team..., but with college, and wps, i doubt there are enough open slots


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## Commandant

Don't forget KSU Soccer Stadium is the second SSS in Atlanta:


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## Aka

I'm sorry, but football (soccer) is a bit of a different sport.

Look at Russia. They have a population of 141 million, they're good in many sports, and they even like football (soccer). Yet, although interesting, their history in football (soccer) is not THAT great.

What about China? They developed champions in every single s***, including snooker! And their football (soccer)? Yep, c***.

How can you explain that a country like Portugal, with just 10/11 million people, which such an amateur way of working youngsters, produced two world's best players in recent years?


Football (soccer) has something different. Yes, you need skills to play basketball, baseball, hockey, football, etc., but much of it is about athleticism and training. To have players such as Messi or Neymar you need something else that training will never bring you.


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## rantanamo

Aka said:


> I'm sorry, but football (soccer) is a bit of a different sport.
> 
> Look at Russia. They have a population of 141 million, they're good in many sports, and they even like football (soccer). Yet, although interesting, their history in football (soccer) is not THAT great.
> 
> What about China? They developed champions in every single s***, including snooker! And their football (soccer)? Yep, c***.
> 
> How can you explain that a country like Portugal, with just 10/11 million people, which such an amateur way of working youngsters, produced two world's best players in recent years?
> 
> 
> Football (soccer) has something different. Yes, you need skills to play basketball, baseball, hockey, football, etc., but much of it is about athleticism and training. To have players such as Messi or Neymar you need something else that training will never bring you.


Russia nor China has ever shown the commitment to soccer that some of these other nations have. They have a history of other sports being more important. Seriously, some of you with soccer. Such a turnoff.


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## MCR_17

all stadiums are awsome!!
greetings


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## Koesj

Aka said:


> Look at Russia. They have a population of 141 million, they're good in many sports, and they even like football (soccer). Yet, although interesting, their history in football (soccer) is not THAT great.


From 1991 onwards maybe not, although the semis in Euro '08 should count towards something.

The USSR football team however...


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## GunnerJacket

Scba said:


> Am I missing something? How/why does Kennesaw State have such a huge new soccer stadium?


There's also the long term aspiration for KSU to play (American) football.


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## mattec

GunnerJacket said:


> There's also the long term aspiration for KSU to play (American) football.


That would be really good for them. College football, regardless of the division played, is always great for a college. It builds school spirit.


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## Barciur

Has there been any pictures of PPL Park a.k.a. Chester Stadium? I went to a couple of games and luckily took my camera before it died to a game :nuts:


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## Alan21LP

PPL looks nice 

Is expandable?

How many SSS of the MLS are expandable?.


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## ryebreadraz

Alan21LP said:


> PPL looks nice
> 
> Is expandable?
> 
> How many SSS of the MLS are expandable?.


It's expandable, as is the Home Depot Center, BMO Field, Crew Stadium (although they'll build a new downtown stadium before they expand), Toyota Park, Dick's Sporting Goods Park, Rio Tinto Stadium and Pizza Hut Park. So, every one is expandable, although some can expand more than others.


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## lpioe

There is a blog about attendances of MLS updated weekly.
It always was the first hit on google when I searched for "MLS attendance", but now I can't find it anymore.
Anyone knows what I'm talking about and can link me?

Btw: Nice pics of Chester Stadium. Has it been full in every game so far? How was the atmosphere?


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## eMKay

nyrmetros said:


> Portland FTW
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce0-lcT8doA


That's awesome, and they're not even MLS yet. I can see why they got a MLS team.


----------



## Alx-D

lpioe said:


> There is a blog about attendances of MLS updated weekly.
> It always was the first hit on google when I searched for "MLS attendance", but now I can't find it anymore.
> Anyone knows what I'm talking about and can link me?
> 
> Btw: Nice pics of Chester Stadium. Has it been full in every game so far? How was the atmosphere?


kenn.com usually does a weekly update of all US leagues. You can also check on mlssoccer.com, it's somewhere in the stats page


----------



## Barciur

> There is a blog about attendances of MLS updated weekly.


Ya, I saw that blog somewhere but I can't find it.



> Has it been full in every game so far? How was the atmosphere?


The atmosphere is very good. Sons of Ben sing and chant and the stadium joins in. It is a real soccer atmosphere - remember Philly is a soccer region so that definitely helps us.

As for attendance, our average attendance has at PPL Park been 17 546 in 8 games played there. Lowest we hit so far was 16,128 vs Real Salt Lake.. that's the only time we went below 17,000. That was in the middle of August so it's understandable - people on vacation etc. Of course before the game I was telling my dad how awesome we are and that no game went below 17,000 and then they show attendance and I didn't know what to tell him :lol: Nonetheless, after that two games were in 17,000s so we're keeping the place pretty full.

The ticket prices aren't that cheap either - $40 for sideline, $30 for endline and $25 for corners. Midfield is all sold out for season tickets. 12,000 season tickets have been sold and that's where it is capped at. There is already season ticket waiting list.. crazy lol. It'll be interesting if this keeps up in second season, because if it does, it'll be awesome for the team.


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## carnifex2005

lpioe said:


> There is a blog about attendances of MLS updated weekly.
> It always was the first hit on google when I searched for "MLS attendance", but now I can't find it anymore.
> Anyone knows what I'm talking about and can link me?


That site was called mls-daily.com but it is out of business now.


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## vanbasten88

carnifex2005 said:


> That site was called mls-daily.com but it is out of business now.


Major League Soccer talk has a weekly round up entitled Take me out to the Ball game usual posted on Tuesday's or Wednesdays. Its pretty extensive, takes into account stadium capacity and trends.. 

http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/


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## BoulderGrad

the mls website itself has started tracking attendance. Just scroll down on the stat page


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## lpioe

Thanks for the answers guys.
Here is a direct link to the stats page on the official web:
http://www.mlssoccer.com/stats/all/team_total/attendance/2010/reg

Overall average attendance is slighly up from last year, mainly because of Seattle, Philadelphia and New York. But most of the other teams have lower numbers than last year.


----------



## GunnerJacket

The best way to assess MLS' overall league attendance is to visit the weekly threads on the topic hosted at BigSoccer.com They regularly compare not only averages by the week but also compare across seasons, how many games have featured below 10k, above 20k, and more. Here's the link to the thread from Week 24 of this season.

Bottom line is that while the average is trending upward just slightly, the number of games below 10k has been decreasing, even with 2 teams in tiny venues. This means that the mean/median ratio is stronger and that the average is more accurate for the league overall. MLS is no longer as dependent on gimmicks and special events at football stadiums in order to inflate the numbers, but are instead drawing a more honest 14-16k. It justifies the league's general strategy and illustrates the benefits of having their own stadiums.


----------



## krudmonk

On that note, San Jose's average attendance is down a big chunk because all home games have been at Buck Shaw. There are no Beckham games at the Coliseum or Chivas/Barcelona double-headers at Candlestick. I think it's better to go this direction.


----------



## ryebreadraz

krudmonk said:


> On that note, San Jose's average attendance is down a big chunk because all home games have been at Buck Shaw. There are no Beckham games at the Coliseum or Chivas/Barcelona double-headers at Candlestick. I think it's better to go this direction.


I agree, but at the same time I think San Jose should join DC as one of those to be placed on a watch. If they can't get a stadium going before long, I'd have no problem moving them and I'm in the Bay Area now with the Quakes as my closest team so I do want them to stay. I still think that if the financials would work out (and I know they won't), a stadium on the site of Kezar Stadium would be fantastic.


----------



## nyrmetros

eMKay said:


> That's awesome, and they're not even MLS yet. I can see why they got a MLS team.


Oh y ea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AucOzX9qqRA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISxNURopKOM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o-5xWQEVzk


----------



## Albert1313

beautiful stadiums


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## carnifex2005

ryebreadraz said:


> I agree, but at the same time I think San Jose should join DC as one of those to be placed on a watch. If they can't get a stadium going before long, I'd have no problem moving them and I'm in the Bay Area now with the Quakes as my closest team so I do want them to stay. I still think that if the financials would work out (and I know they won't), a stadium on the site of Kezar Stadium would be fantastic.


Today, the owner of the A's and the Earthquakes have chosen a design firm for both of their respective new stadiums, so that project seems to be still a go.

The stadium is supposed to be 15,000 in size...


----------



## ryebreadraz

^^^ That's lovely and all, but financing has not been secured and no timeline has been laid out yet. When they've secured financing and have a definitive timeline then they will be safe, but until then they have work to do. I was surprised and didn't agree with the move to go back to San Jose without a ready to build stadium and still think it was a mistake. Hopefully they can break ground on the stadium before long, but until they've secured the financing and have a timeline, I would be weary of their long-term stability.


----------



## GunnerJacket

ryebreadraz said:


> I was surprised and didn't agree with the move to go back to San Jose without a ready to build stadium and still think it was a mistake. Hopefully they can break ground on the stadium before long, but until they've secured the financing and have a timeline, I would be weary of their long-term stability.


To be fair the times and conditions were decidedly different when that decision was made. Economy was better and MLS was trying to maintain public face with a fan base and market that was hardly turning its back on soccer. The league and pro soccer in the US in general have suffered way too many team relocations and contractions, and San Jose deserved their new chance. That the owners have been less than ideal in their management of the situation is a separate, and regrettable, matter. My opinion, anyway.


----------



## krudmonk

http://www.sjearthquakes.com/news/2010/09/quakes-choose-360-architecture-stadium-designs

*18,000* seats


----------



## ryebreadraz

krudmonk said:


> http://www.sjearthquakes.com/news/2010/09/quakes-choose-360-architecture-stadium-designs
> 
> *18,000* seats


18,000 capacity it says and prior releases on the design said 15,000 seated with 3,000 on the grass berm or standing so I believe that to still be the case. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see anything about 18,000 seats, just the capacity, which is in line with prior releases.



GunnerJacket said:


> To be fair the times and conditions were decidedly different when that decision was made. Economy was better and MLS was trying to maintain public face with a fan base and market that was hardly turning its back on soccer. The league and pro soccer in the US in general have suffered way too many team relocations and contractions, and San Jose deserved their new chance. That the owners have been less than ideal in their management of the situation is a separate, and regrettable, matter. My opinion, anyway.


My issues with San Jose is that it's not a "must have" market that is representing a city that the league can't be without or a fan base that is overwhelmingly incredible. There is no need for San Jose. It's a good place for a team, but it's not a city that has to be represented no matter what. So, when they lost their first team because of stadium issues, it made no sense to me to go back to the city without a ready to break ground stadium. 

Go back to 2008 and you have a 13 team league with Seattle already announced as join in 2009. Several other markets have expressed interest and are pursuing a team at that point with future expansion teams, Philadelphia and Portland, extremely interested, while several others still waiting for a team are as well. What made San Jose so much better than the rest? Portland couldn't get a team until the PGE Park renovation was finalized. Philadelphia needed to have PPL Park finalized before the got a team and Toronto entered the league in 2007 with BMO Field in place. I won't get into Montreal and Vancouver, which also needed stadium plans settled, because I think all of Canada was in a holding pattern at that point until we saw how Toronto worked.

The point is, why was San Jose exempt from needing a definitive stadium plan? It just never really made sense to me why they would get the Earthquakes again without a stadium. With a stadium, I think it's a great place for a team, but I'd have required that they figure out the stadium situation before getting the team. Maybe it's just me.


----------



## krudmonk

All other original markets got leeway with regard to getting a stadium. Then in 2005, the Quakes were relocated to a city that still doesn't have a stadium for the Dynamo. It would be an offensive double standard to say that the team could not return for not meeting criteria which hadn't been met in Houston.

And what are the "must have" markets for MLS?


----------



## Alemanniafan

Discussions in the US about soccer and soccer leagues are generally centered around teams and cities. In Europe it's all about clubs usually old traditional clubs and it doesn't matter as much where they are located.

The San Jose Earthquakes are by US standards a traditional team with an existing and grown fanbase. Why should they not be in the league just because they have stadium issues.
By european standards people would find it rather scandalous if one of the traditional team was excluded from the league because of stadium issues and just got simply replaced by some other smaller club or some newly constructed Team-project for sdvertisement purposes in whatever city just because that city has a propper stadium and a reasonable number of inhabitants.
San Jose Earthquakes have a name, they're a real brand in US soccer and those kind of clubs those brands are what make a league really attractive. History, stories, sucesses, dramas... all that, not the city sizes where the teams are playing.
It's not the cities of London, Birmingham or Manchester itself that make the Premier League attractive, but the big clubs like Arsenal, Chelsea, ManU and other big names or brands and the superstars that play in those clubs, that do. 
The clubs, their fans and their history and the sportsmen playing for them are what matter first and foremost and far more than where they are located.
Just to give you a rather extreme example of what I mean:
I seriously doubt the name of a town called Gelsenkirchen for example has much of any meaning to you, but I'm pretty sure you do know the name Schalke 04 very well.


----------



## GunnerJacket

ryebreadraz said:


> The point is, why was San Jose exempt from needing a definitive stadium plan? It just never really made sense to me why they would get the Earthquakes again without a stadium. With a stadium, I think it's a great place for a team, but I'd have required that they figure out the stadium situation before getting the team. Maybe it's just me.


I think krdumonk's points about HOW San Jose lost their team were the biggest reason for their somewhat special treatment, plus the idea that California as a whole is probably worth the effort to MLS, market wise, and San Jose was easily the best option there.



krudmonk said:


> And what are the "must have" markets for MLS?


I would say they'll have them after Montreal comes aboard. Another midwest city like St. Louis would be nice, though I wouldn't call it a must-have. The recent expansions have done well to complete regionality and build rivalries, so while there are some large TV markets missing (Miami, Atlanta, San Diego...) none of them appear given success stories waiting to happen. 




Alemanniafan said:


> Discussions in the US about soccer and soccer leagues are generally centered around teams and cities. In Europe it's all about clubs usually old traditional clubs and it doesn't matter as much where they are located.


In Europe the sport sells itself, but in the US teams need decent venues to draw fans and remain financially viable. TV contracts don't provide near enough revenue to fully manage the teams. That and there is no full tier system in the US nor a lot of owners willing to invest in teams that can't sustain themselves in MLS. Newcastle or Juventus can survive a year or two dropping down a level. For most MLS clubs there is no realistic dropping down, simply folding.



> San Jose Earthquakes have a name, they're a real brand in US soccer and those kind of clubs those brands are what make a league really attractive. History, stories, sucesses, dramas...


These reasons are part of why MLS is trying to make this work, but outside of the small minority of soccer purists this history and branding isn't worth much at all in the States. It can be someday, but none of these teams have anything remotely close to the history or brand of their European peers. 

Not enough to carry investors, anyway.


----------



## Alemanniafan

GunnerJacket said:


> In Europe the sport sells itself, but in the US teams need decent venues to draw fans and remain financially viable. TV contracts don't provide near enough revenue to fully manage the teams. That and there is no full tier system in the US nor a lot of owners willing to invest in teams that can't sustain themselves in MLS. Newcastle or Juventus can survive a year or two dropping down a level. For most MLS clubs there is no realistic dropping down, simply folding.
> 
> These reasons are part of why MLS is trying to make this work, but outside of the small minority of soccer purists this history and branding isn't worth much at all in the States. It can be someday, but none of these teams have anything remotely close to the history or brand of their European peers.
> 
> Not enough to carry investors, anyway.


Of course The MLS is not an extremely strong league it can't compare to europes top leagues. and thus the brands are of course also not as big and interesting for investors.
But still the same principle applies, that a Name, amnbrand and a history are more important than team locations.
One example of howe important the identification of the fans with their teams is can be seen in the austrian soccer league the austrian Bundesliga.
They allow sponsors to buy namingrights from soccerclubs stadia and everything. So there you have teams like Red Bull Salzburg playing against the FC Magna and other teams with sponsored names.
That may be interesting for investors but fans increasingly have problems identifying themselves with these teams.
So the result is that a top team in the austrian league the FC Red Bull Salzburg which won the title the last three years and played in the Europaleague (the former UEFA cup) last season had an average number of only 13014 spectators in their homegames. 
www.weltfussball.de/zuschauer/aut-bundesliga-2009-2010/1/

They have players that if they played in germany would usually play in the second or first Bundesliga they have and had international top coaches with names like Huub Stevens, Co Adriaanse, Giovanni Trappatoni. The best of the best. They have a lot of money since Red Bull incests an enormeus amount of money into that project but the nomber of spectators is extremely low because people aren't interested in identifying themselves with a softdrink producing enterprise.
The sporting level and the size of the austrian bundesliga could well be compared to germanies or the french or italian second League or the belgian first league maybe. With the names and money available the team Red Bull Salzburg could easily play sucessfully in any second league in Europe, and would probably be oable to compete on a level that would allow them to get into the first league of most European countries. The players they have intheir team, the names and their fanancial situation would be most likely sufficient to remain in the german bundesliga and not drop down if they were playing there.
But the number of spectators, especially considering that salzburg is not sich a small austrian city, can hardly keep up with most second league teams in germany. Even third league teams in germany have more spectators than the first league in austria does. 
just compare the numbers from austria to these from the third league in Germany and you'll see that the german third league easily beats austrias first league in terms of visitor numbers:
http://www.weltfussball.de/zuschauer/3-liga-2009-2010/1/
and the german league is by far not as attractive for investors sponsors as the first bundesliga in austria is. And matches in the thirg leagie in germany are hardly ever being broadcasted on TV, unlike the first austrian league.

The MLS should theoretically easily be able to beat the german third Bundesliga in terms of visitior numbers, media presence etc. It should easily be far more attractive for investors if its done right.
But if they go the austrian way of naming teams after sponsors moving teams around the country into modern stadia that need to be filled etc. then they will end up having the same kind of difficulties and problems of attracting fans and spectators. Red Bull Salzburg should theoretically easily beat the number of visitors a german third league team like Dynamo Dresden have. But don't and the reason for that is, that Dynamo Dresden may be a nearly bancrupt team with a fairly poor sportsperformance, but it does have a great history and tradition and long and well grown very big fanbase with a very high identification to the team and local city. 
and that is why Dynamo Dresden beats the FC Red Bull Salzburg in terms of stadium attendance, without big stars and coaches in their team, without superstars and very big wealthy sponsors. They and many other traditional smaller clubs in Europe attract far more fans and spectatirs than Red Bull Salzburg simply because the overall package of tradition identification with the club etc is far more attractive than it is in Salzburg, Austria where there is a very successfull team playing that dominates the national topleague.

In my opinion MLS can only be successfull and attractive and grow when they manage to cerate or offer an interesting league with attractive teams that people can really identify themselves with. They don't have the big brands and great history but they do have teams with some history, a comparatively small history of course but with at least some history and tradition. They really need to keep an eye on the overall package of aspects that make a sport, a league, a team attractive.
like smaller leagues in Europe MLS can not compete with the top leagues, but other than a second or third national league they do have one major advantage and that is being national top league without possibilities of advancing without having to compete with a national bigger brother in terms of attraction, money etc. The MLS is a top league, the teams there are playing for titles a dn not just to advance up one league higher. That automatically creates successes and histories a second league simply can not generate, since it's allways only the national number two. That's a major plus, even if the level of the sport, the finances, the players may be comparable to european second leagues. The MLS should theoretically easily be able to create a market, a business bigger than that of the german second bundesliga, if only they somehow manage to have a number of attractive and competitive enough teams playing for the titles there.
Otherwise they will allways have just the same problems and difficulties attracting fans and vicitors as the austrian bundesliga currently has, where nearly all the existant tradition has been sold out and trashed by "Monopoly playing" sponsors and investors.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Alemanniafan said:


> Of course The MLS is not an extremely strong league it can't compare to europes top leagues. and thus the brands are of course also not as big and interesting for investors.
> But still the same principle applies, that a Name, amnbrand and a history are more important than team locations.


To some degree, but the American sports scene is far more crowded than other nations. As such, if MLS is to prosper they need a TV presence and to draw fans. The best way to land both is by securing a presence within larger markets. If they averaged 40k per game but TV broadcasters knew there were no other fans out there wanting to watch, they wouldn't show the games.



> One example of howe important the identification of the fans with their teams...


Which is again why San Jose was allowed to recoup their team so quickly and easily after losing them to Houston, and why fans in the US are slow to embrace Red Bull: New York Franchise Location. But your full discussion doesn't change the fact that MLS and league investors will only go where they feel they can make the most money, so while some smaller metro areas may/have landed teams (Portland, Columbus, Vancouver) a) they're still sizable metropolitan areas and b) MLS is securing their presence in the larger markets in order to ensure the league's overall long term viability. It's safe to say that while Seattle, Montreal and the other cities/teams that have the branding you're talking about would find a way to play even without a top league, the only way the US is able to field a league capable of landing a second-hand Beckham, Henry, etc is by making teams viable within places like NY, Chicago, DC and LA. Even if those cities and teams don't have any history or established brand. Market presence is too vital to the league's bottom line. 


> In my opinion MLS can only be successfull and attractive and grow when they manage to cerate or offer an interesting league with attractive teams that people can really identify themselves with. ...


They're trying, and making great progress. But since MLS must also compete with other sports in the US, and must overcome the US fans interests in other foreign leagues (Premiership, Serie A, etc) it will simply take time. 

We may disagree about how/when the league will get there, but there can be no doubt they're making progress in the right direction. To wit, trying to keep San Jose viable is part of that equation.


----------



## metros11

Alemanniafan said:


> So the result is that a top team in the austrian league the FC Red Bull Salzburg which won the title the last three years and played in the Europaleague (the former UEFA cup) last season had an average number of only 13014 spectators in their homegames.
> www.weltfussball.de/zuschauer/aut-bundesliga-2009-2010/1/


As a supporter of the New York Red Bulls I do agree with you to a certain degree that in order to have a successful brand the fans must identify with the club. However, you argument in using FC Red Bull Salzburg as an example is completely flawed. For example, you state that last year the club only had an average of 13,000 spectators. But further review of statistics shows that this is good enough for 2nd in the league:

1 Rapid Wien 15,797
2 RB Salzburg 13,014
3 Sturm Graz 11,167
4 Austria Wien 8,858
5 LASK Linz 8,143
6 SV Mattersburg 5,317
7 SV Ried 5,265
8 SK Austria Kärnten 4,993
9 SC Magna 3,700
10 Kapfenberger SV 3,222

Furthermore when comparing average attendance for the club in the last ten years:

2001 SV Austria Salzburg 5,947 (4th in the league in attendance)
2002 SV Austria Salzburg 5,306 (6)
2003 SV Austria Salzburg 8,722 (1)
2004 SV Austria Salzburg 8,939 (4)
2005 SV Austria Salzburg 7,676 (4)

2006 FC Red Bull Salzburg 16,290 (1)
2007 FC Red Bull Salzburg 15,361 (1)
2008 FC Red Bull Salzburg 13,436 (2)
2009 FC Red Bull Salzburg 14,100 (2)
2010 FC Red Bull Salzburg 13,014 (2)

If the majority of the fans are so disconnected with the club, why did attendance double after the takeover? Now I understand that hardcore supporters started SV Austria Salzburg in the lower leagues and that club now averages almost 2,000 fans, but that in itself is making the Red Bull numbers that much more impressive. That means that in the year after Red Bull bought the club they were able to bring in 10,000 more fans. These statistics basically show that club identity in Austria does not play as much of a role as you indicate. And anyone can tell you, for a young league such as MLS, it plays even a lesser role.


----------



## Alemanniafan

GunnerJacket said:


> To some degree, but the American sports scene is far more crowded than other nations. As such, if MLS is to prosper they need a TV presence and to draw fans. The best way to land both is by securing a presence within larger markets. If they averaged 40k per game but TV broadcasters knew there were no other fans out there wanting to watch, they wouldn't show the games.
> 
> Which is again why San Jose was allowed to recoup their team so quickly and easily after losing them to Houston, and why fans in the US are slow to embrace Red Bull: New York Franchise Location. But your full discussion doesn't change the fact that MLS and league investors will only go where they feel they can make the most money, so while some smaller metro areas may/have landed teams (Portland, Columbus, Vancouver) a) they're still sizable metropolitan areas and b) MLS is securing their presence in the larger markets in order to ensure the league's overall long term viability. It's safe to say that while Seattle, Montreal and the other cities/teams that have the branding you're talking about would find a way to play even without a top league, the only way the US is able to field a league capable of landing a second-hand Beckham, Henry, etc is by making teams viable within places like NY, Chicago, DC and LA. Even if those cities and teams don't have any history or established brand. Market presence is too vital to the league's bottom line.
> They're trying, and making great progress. But since MLS must also compete with other sports in the US, and must overcome the US fans interests in other foreign leagues (Premiership, Serie A, etc) it will simply take time.
> 
> We may disagree about how/when the league will get there, but there can be no doubt they're making progress in the right direction. To wit, trying to keep San Jose viable is part of that equation.


Of course the competition with other sports in the US is very etreme especially for soccer.
But here in europe we have the same or very simmilar problems with many sports also. Handball, Basketball, Volleyball, Icehockey, American Football but also Womens soccer and others.
Now there is one interesting thing to observe in many of these sports and that is small cities having very sucessfull Teams in less attreactive sports.
Here in Germany the team fom the city Kiel for example is well known in Handball Kassel has a traditional well known and strong team in icehockey. and the reason for that is that those are all cities which are not sucessfull at all in soccer. So these successfull teams are a very welcomed substitute for locals to identify themselves with instead of supporting soccer teams from other cities. 
A lack of successfull or big soccer clubs in the area often really does help the sport gain local importance and relevance. 
Something simmilar can be observed in other countries and for soccer in the US.
To get back to the San Jose Earthquakes, why are they successfull and manage to recruit a fairly large fanbase locally?
Because San Jose does not have a sucessful footall, baseball or Basketball team. San Francisco does, but not San Jose.
San Jose has the Sharks in the NHL and they have the San Jose Earthquakes in soccer instead.
I really believe that the fact that San Jose itself does not have a big team in the three major sports enhances the interest and relevance of Soccer and icehockey especially.

Red Bull has the problem of having to compete for attention with all the other sports and their big and sucessful local teams. San Jose on the other hand is located in a major metropolitan area, but the city itself only has the San Jose Sharks as a very successful big sports team.

If Red Bull hadn't chosen NY in their name but New Jersey and would have named itself New Jersey Bulls, or some other simmilar name which made it easier for the locals to identify themselves with, I'm certain they would draw larger crowds than they currently do. Because of several reasons. First and foremost the Metro Stars which Red Bull bought and renamed are not from New York, but from New Jersey. And the competition with other sports is a little less difficult in New Jersey than it is in New York. 

Now the locals in New Jersey will have problems supporting a New Yorker team, a team named after a local rival city. And the New Yorkers will have problems accepting a team from and playing in New Jersey as a true New Yorker team, especially if its named after an energy drink producer. 
In addition to that, the New Yorkers allready have plenty of other teams to be proud of anyways so they have no need to bother accepting all those things.
So in the end all that basically remains as the main fanbase are those true soccer enthusiasts who just love to watch a soccer match in a local stadium. 
And those true soccer freaks are allways rather few, no matter how large the metropolitan area is and they don't necessarily need the biggest and most sucessful teams to be happy. Amateursoccer teams often serves those peoples demands halfwhat well enough allready.

Red Bull just wanted or needed the name New York for their own marketing purposes. They simply just don't care about locals they want to have their own global soccer family of Red Bull Teams all over the world and the name New Jersey just doesnt sell the way New York does. 
And as a result, the MLS probably just won't ever really truely need or profit from Red Bull New York as a team, not if that team can't even manage to recruit a large fanbase, not if that team isn't attractive enough overall for the people to watch the matches in a stadium or on TV and to identify themselves with this team.

Identification and fanbases allways have to grow, they just can not be generated or bought with money.
But on the other hand traditions, emotions, history, and grown fanbases automatically provide attraction and attention and offer investors and sponsors something that makes it attractive to spend money to get advertising effects or other positive effects.

Investing first and installing artificial teams in the Monopoly-game-style is basically the backwards approach, a modern and not even so unpopular one, but a reverse approach. And so far that has allways ended up creating problems with attracting comparatively large crowds or fanbases. It only works to some extend and to me it seems to be rather inefficient, simply because it involves spending a very large amount of money to halfwhat get the desired attention from people or fans. 

Soccer but also any other big sport is allways far more than just the plain competition and sucesses itself. And it can only grow big when the overall package is interresting and attractive enough for the people to watch and support it. 
Especially in the US Football, Baseball, Basketball and Icehockey all offer a great and very attractive package and events for the fans allready. So if the MLS can't even halfwhat compete in all those sideaspects of sports also, then the MLs will never really be able to attract large crowds, much money or good players. No matter how much money investors are willing to pump into the league.


----------



## Alemanniafan

metros11 said:


> If the majority of the fans are so disconnected with the club, why did attendance double after the takeover? Now I understand that hardcore supporters started SV Austria Salzburg in the lower leagues and that club now averages almost 2,000 fans, but that in itself is making the Red Bull numbers that much more impressive. That means that in the year after Red Bull bought the club they were able to bring in 10,000 more fans. These statistics basically show that club identity in Austria does not play as much of a role as you indicate. And anyone can tell you, for a young league such as MLS, it plays even a lesser role.


Red Bull is extremely sucessfull they dominate the national league because Red Bull invested an enormeus amount of money and bought the best coaches and top players. In austria they are the most sucessfull team lately with hardly any serious challenging competitors.

Now if you compare the sucess and the players in the team and the amount of money the team has available to spend to other clubs, then you will see that there is hardly any other club with a simmilar financial and personal background in Europe that attracts less spectators than Red Bull Salzburg does. But there are tons of teams that play with far less money and far less qualified players in lower or less popular leagues and in smaller cities that attract far more spectators than Red Bull Salzburg does.

And after all, Red Bull Salzburg is sort of Austrias pendant to ManU or Chelsea or Bayern Munich, of course austrias league is not as big and attractive as those top leagues are, but they are the absolutelydominant team since the takeover and they won the title the last three times in a row. And despite all that, still their stadium remains half empty.


----------



## slipperydog

This was a rather ambitious decision to locate this billboard in downtown Seattle.


----------



## ryebreadraz

slipperydog said:


> This was a rather ambitious decision to locate this billboard in downtown Seattle.


Haha it's literally right down the street from Qwest Field. I can't wait for that Portland-Seattle rivalry. Every single one of the matches between the two better be on national TV.


----------



## JYDA

slipperydog said:


> This was a rather ambitious decision to locate this billboard in downtown Seattle.


HAHA that's great!!:lol:


----------



## metros11

Alemanniafan said:


> If Red Bull hadn't chosen NY in their name but New Jersey and would have named itself New Jersey Bulls, or some other simmilar name which made it easier for the locals to identify themselves with, I'm certain they would draw larger crowds than they currently do. Because of several reasons. First and foremost the Metro Stars which Red Bull bought and renamed are not from New York, but from New Jersey. And the competition with other sports is a little less difficult in New Jersey than it is in New York.
> 
> Now the locals in New Jersey will have problems supporting a New Yorker team, a team named after a local rival city. And the New Yorkers will have problems accepting a team from and playing in New Jersey as a true New Yorker team, especially if its named after an energy drink producer.
> In addition to that, the New Yorkers allready have plenty of other teams to be proud of anyways so they have no need to bother accepting all those things.


I've never been to Aachen, so I'm not going to pretend I know the view of Alemannia supporters. But you really shouldn't pretend to know the view of New Jersey and New York soccer fans either. Regardless of how you think it works, you can't compare the logic of a German fan and apply it to the United States, especially in the New York Tri-State Area. 

I've lived in New Jersey for 19 years, so let me explain. People from New Jersey have absolutely no problem in rooting for a team named New York, whether they play in New York City or somewhere in New Jersey. The NY vs NJ rivalry does not exist. There is a Devils-Rangers rivalry in Eis Hockey, but again, it's not a NY-NJ rivalry because millions of New York Rangers fans are from New Jersey. There are two New York American football teams playing in New Jersey, the Giants and the Jets, and believe it or not both teams have thousands of season ticket holders who live in NJ. Everyone I know that follows baseball is either a Yankee or a Mets fan, both New York teams. I have yet to meet one person who has said that they do not support the Red Bulls because they are called New York and not New Jersey. I'm sure there are a few that do feel that way, but that number is so minute it has no effect whatsoever on the Red Bulls fan base.

Bottom line is this, the vast majority of the New Jersey sports fans identify themselves with New York teams. Having a team called New York and playing in NJ is not the problem, because we all still live in what is arguably the biggest Metropolis in the world, one that occupies three states. The reason that the Red Bulls fan base is so small stretches 15 years back. There is no one single reason, there are tons of reasons why the Red Bulls fail at the gate. It would literally take me hours to list them all. But if you're really looking for one major reason, it's called Major League Soccer. MLS is simply not good enough. It's almost taboo to be an MLS fan. It's as if going to MLS games is admitting that you lower your soccer standards, and therefore somehow become less of a fan. I know, it sounds completely ridiculous, but people would rather watch and discuss the EPL, La Liga and Serie A, than talk about MLS. And you are correct in one aspect. The fans that do come out to Red Bull games are those that enjoy the experience of seeing a live game, myself included.


----------



## metros11

Alemanniafan said:


> of course austrias league is not as big and attractive as those top leagues are


You answered your own question there. It's still the Austrian Bundesliga, and the level of play is still below that of even the Dutch or Belgian leagues. You can't compare Salzburg's attendance to even that of any German Bundesliga team, because football in Germany is far more popular. And the only reason the stadium is always more than half empty is because they expanded for the Euros. Otherwise 13,000 fans in a 18,000 seat stadium would have created a much better experience.


----------



## 3tmk

How is that Portland-Seattle rivalry shaping up so far in those cities?

That billboard is nice taunting, but is it picking up attention in the cities or is something people notice without giving it much attention?


----------



## GunnerJacket

3tmk said:


> How is that Portland-Seattle rivalry shaping up so far in those cities?
> 
> That billboard is nice taunting, but is it picking up attention in the cities or is something people notice without giving it much attention?


Portland, Seattle and Vancouver have been rivals for some time now, with the best of the three from each season winning the Cascadia Cup. Seattlites crowed when they were tapped for the jump to MLS first, so Portland and Vancouver will be more than happy to renew the rivalries beginning next year. Trust me - To the extent those fans know about the teams, they also know about the rivalries.


----------



## slipperydog

Looks like taking the train to RBA wasn't just a one-time thing


----------



## vanbasten88

Wow, just Wow, a multi-squillionaire slumming it on the subway and mugging it up with fans, I might have to change my opinion on Terry Henry(TM Soccer AM)


----------



## carnifex2005

vanbasten88 said:


> Wow, just Wow, a multi-squillionaire slumming it on the subway and mugging it up with fans, I might have to change my opinion on Terry Henry(TM Soccer AM)


Make that two multi-millionaires. The guy in the white shirt is Mexican star Rafael Marquez. It is very easy to get to Red Bull Arena from Manhattan. It's a 30 minute train trip and the stadium has a train station a few minutes walk away.


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## krudmonk

Wow, I didn't recognize Marquez, either. The smile threw me off.


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## ryebreadraz

JYDA said:


> I heard they've sold over 11,000 season tickets and 23 of 24 suites.


I read 22 of 23, not that it's much of a difference. The key is that the Timbers are doing a great job. Meanwhile Vancouver has sold more season tickets than Portland. Both expansion teams look like they will be coming into the league on good footing. It's great news for MLS.


----------



## slipperydog

> The Houston Dynamo have selected architecture firm Populous to design a new $80 million Major League Soccer stadium. The 22,000-seat facility will feature soccer and accommodate multi-use events such as football, lacrosse, rugby, and concerts. It is planned to open for the 2012 MLS season.


http://www.houstondynamo.com/news/2010/09/populous-selected-design-dynamo-stadium


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## ryebreadraz

Nothing new yet really on the Dynamo Stadium since the letter to sponsors and season ticket holders. We should have renderings and fun things to look at by November though.


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## warpus

slipperydog said:


> The 22,000-seat facility will feature soccer and accommodate multi-use events such as football, lacrosse, rugby, and concerts. It is planned to open for the 2012 MLS season.


Rugby? Football? It's not soccer specific? That's not really good news..


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## BoulderGrad

warpus said:


> Rugby? Football? It's not soccer specific? That's not really good news..


Because heaven forbid we should actually use the place more than 15 times a year?


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## soup or man

warpus said:


> Rugby? Football? It's not soccer specific? That's not really good news..


Why is that? During the X-Games in Los Angeles, the Home Depot Center is turned into a rally course. Well I mean it used to. Now they moved it to the Coliseum.


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## krudmonk

warpus said:


> Rugby? Football? It's not soccer specific? That's not really good news..


soccer specific =! soccer exclusive


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## Calvin W

krudmonk said:


> soccer specific =! soccer exclusive


No it means it is designed for soccer, but can still host other events!

Name ONE soccer specific stadium that hasn't hosted other events or functions?


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## KingmanIII

Calvin W said:


> No it means it is designed for soccer, but can still host other events!
> 
> Name ONE soccer specific stadium that hasn't hosted other events or functions?


'!=' is C++ notation for "not equal"


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## krudmonk

Yeah, I had that backward.


----------



## soup or man

Just for reference, here are the stadiums of the MLS.

Chicago Fire (Toyota Park)









Columbus Crew (Columbus Crew Stadium)









DC United (RFK Stadium)









Kansas City Wizards (CommunityAmerica Ballpark)









New England Revolution (Gillette Stadium)









Red Bull New York (Red Bull Arena)









Philadelphia Union (PPL Park)









Toronto FC (BMO Field)









LA Galaxy/Chivas USA (Home Depot Center)









Colorado Rapids (Dick's Sporting Goods Park)









FC Dallas (Pizza Hut Park)









Houston Dynamo (Robertson Stadium)









Real Salt Lake (Rio Tinto Stadium)









San Jose Earthquakes (Buck Shaw Stadium)









Seattle Sounders (Qwest Field)


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## eMKay

^^^^^^^^^^ Excellent post, thank you. We should repost this every couple pages until sanity prevails and we are allowed a separate thread for each stadium.


----------



## bd popeye

eMKay said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^ Excellent post, thank you. We should repost this every couple pages until sanity prevails and we are allowed a separate thread for each stadium.


Wait a minute..Each individual MLS stadiums cannot have a separate thread for each one?? What's the reason for this??


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## matthemod

Something like some stupid forum rule for a minimum capacity. Of course it's only because we're all aware that only big stadiums are good and worthy of any attention.

I think looking at all those stadiums, my favourite has to be the Home Depot. there doesn't seem to much at all wrong with it whereas other stadiums have obvious little quirks here and there.


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## BoulderGrad

Soon to be added/changed:

Kansas City Wizards new stadium:









Houston Dynamo new stadium (only conceptual render):









Portland Timbers, PGE Park (renovated)









Vancouver White Caps, BC Place (renovated):









Montreal Impact, Saputo Stadium (renovated)










And a few in the pipeline, but still waiting for progress.

San Jose Earthquakes new stadium (stuck in financial limbo):









New England Revolution new stadium:
http://www.boston.com/yourtown/medf...adium_could_kick_start_revolution_somerville/


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## bd popeye

matthemod said:


> Something like some stupid forum rule for a minimum capacity. Of course it's only because we're all aware that only big stadiums are good and worthy of any attention.
> 
> I think looking at all those stadiums, my favourite has to be the Home Depot. there doesn't seem to much at all wrong with it whereas other stadiums have obvious little quirks here and there.


Thanks for that info..seem a bit unfair..oh well.

As a casual observer of soccer I really think the MLS is going in the right direction with it's new stadiums. I wish them well in the future.


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## ryebreadraz

Chivas is also investigating the possibility of a stadium of their own.


----------



## vanbasten88

ryebreadraz said:


> Chivas is also investigating the possibility of a stadium of their own.


In San Diego?


----------



## bd popeye

vanbasten88 said:


> In San Diego?


At first they would have to play in that relic of a stadium Qualcomm. But with the large Mexican_American community they would draw well.


----------



## vanbasten88

bd popeye said:


> At first they would have to play in that relic of a stadium Qualcomm. But with the large Mexican_American community they would draw well.


The Q? that's a long way out of town right..does the trolley still run there?
How much effort and $$ do you reckon would be needed to get it up to MLS standards? If the "San Diego Goats"?** tarped off the entire upper deck and put bck in the temp seating the Bolts used to use, it would make an okay MLS stadium, surely no worse than RFK?


**for heritage value, could they still use the "Sockers" name from NASL Days? Its goofy, but no more so than ReAL Salt Lake IMO. Did the Sockers play at the Q? that would complete the circle no? very zen


----------



## JAVAsupporters

stages are very good, but they still lack a good league to be globally


----------



## dl3000

vanbasten88 said:


> The Q? that's a long way out of town right..does the trolley still run there?
> How much effort and $$ do you reckon would be needed to get it up to MLS standards? If the "San Diego Goats"?** tarped off the entire upper deck and put bck in the temp seating the Bolts used to use, it would make an okay MLS stadium, surely no worse than RFK?
> 
> 
> **for heritage value, could they still use the "Sockers" name from NASL Days? Its goody, but no more so than ReAL Salt Lake IMO. Did the Sockers play at the Q? that would complete the circle no? very zen


Qualcomm is close to town. I was just there today. 10 minutes drive from the CBD. The Sockers played at the stadium from 78-84 according to Wikipedia.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

The Chivas owner recently said that they are not leaving LA and would like their own stadium in Los Angeles in the future.


----------



## vanbasten88

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> The Chivas owner recently said that they are not leaving LA and would like their own stadium in Los Angeles in the future.


Yeah well I'd like to wear Natalie Portman as a hat, but we don't always get our wishes. If SD made an offer the goats couldn't refuse, I'm sure they'd at least think about moving..the Question is...Is SD a soccer city?? or could they care less?


----------



## bd popeye

> The Q? that's a long way out of town right..does the trolley still run there?


The Q is in San Diego's Mission valley area. It is not way out of town.. Of course the trolley runs there. The Chargers still play there.




> The "Q" on game day in the 2009 NFL season. Note the Light Rail(Trolley)station in the bottom left corner





> Is SD a soccer city?? or could they care less?


Yes. San Diego had some of the highest TV ratings for the WC in the USA;
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/jun/27/heartbreak-in-soccer-city-team-usa-is-knocked-out/

and..



> http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/fact/article_ef6465cc-8fb3-11df-a3dd-001cc4c002e0.html
> 
> Posted: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 6:52 pm | _ Updated: 8:28 am, Thu Jul 15, 2010. _
> 
> 
> Posted: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 6:52 pm | _ Updated: 8:28 am, Thu Jul 15, 2010. _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Statement:* "There's something like a $30 million franchise fee (to join the MLS), so somebody has to be willing to put up a lot of money. The big thing is the dollar issue," said Anthony Fernandez, the CEO of Pazzo Sports, in a Union-Tribune column by Nick Canepa.
> *Determination:* Mostly True
> 
> 
> *Analysis:* Enthusiasm for the World Cup in San Diego has been quite high, with some outlets reporting that San Diego had some of the highest TV ratings among U.S. cities for the world's largest sporting event.
> This passion led Union-Tribune columnist Nick Canepa to wonder what stood in the way of getting a Major League Soccer team in San Diego. And he quoted Anthony Fernandez, whose company organized an exhibition match at Qualcomm Stadium on Wednesday between England's Portsmouth and Mexico's Club America.
> Fernandez said the biggest barrier between San Diego and Major League Soccer was money. Specifically, he highlighted what he estimated was a $30 million "franchise fee."
> Money is always the issue, of course, with just about everything. But there are a few things to think about.
> First, it's not actually a franchise fee. I called the spokesman for Major League Soccer, Will Kuhns. It turns out MLS is actually a limited liability corporation, not a franchise network. In other words, new teams have to buy a share of this single-entity structure. In that way it's a bit different than most American sports, where individuals own franchises.
> There are two teams entering MLS soon -- one from Portland, one from Vancouver. They are both paying $35 million each for their share of the LLC. In 2012, Montreal will join and pay $40 million. But these payments are made over time, not all at once.
> Secondly, though, it's not just paying to get into the league that is a barrier. It looks like San Diego would also have to pony up to build a new soccer stadium. Nope, a new football stadium probably wouldn't work unless MLS changes its MO.
> Kuhns said that MLS leaders take into account three issues above all when they consider expanding: 1) a strong ownership group, 2) the strength of the market and 3) whether there's a soccer stadium plan.
> "What we won't do is enter into an investment with a team in an indefinite lease situation," Kuhns said. In other words, if the team is leasing at a facility as it would under any conceivable new football stadium plan in San Diego, it wouldn't work.
> "There hasn't been an expansion team that either didn't have a plan for a stadium or didn't own the building," he said. What he means is that, like in New England, if the football team operates the stadium _and_ owned the soccer team, it might work. But it can't be sharing space.
> So, I can't imagine how San Diego gets a team without either building a new stadium or convincing Dean Spanos to buy a soccer team too.
> Oooh! Or maybe the city of San Diego itself could purchase a soccer team! That might provide all kinds of added value to the Initial Marketing Partnership Pilot Project.
> We've deemed the statement Mostly True because his figure for buying into the league is near target. However, it doesn't get a pure True because it's not actually a "franchise" fee and a new stadium seems like the biggest obstacle to a team coming here.
> If you disagree with our determination or analysis, please express your thoughts in the comments section of this blog post. Explain your reasoning.
> You can also e-mail new Fact Check suggestions to [email protected]. What claim should we explore next?
> -- SCOTT LEWIS


----------



## bd popeye

Ha ha.. I found the article about soccer in San Diego I was looking for..
ps..I lived in San Diego from 1977 until 2004.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/jul/03/soccer-mad-city-shut-out-mls/



> Soccer-mad city shut out by MLS
> 
> By Nick Canepa
> 
> Originally published July 3, 2010 at 9:35 p.m., updated July 4, 2010 at 12:02 a.m.
> 
> As we celebrate the birth of our nation on this Fourth of July, I can’t think of a more jingoistic way to spend my day than gabbing about that true American sport, soccer. That’s what it’s become — in San Diego, anyway — where suddenly we should live in mortal fear of walking down the street and getting hit in the face with corner kicks.
> 
> Have you seen the television numbers here during the World Cup? We are the Mecca of U.S. soccer. We are Rio, Milan , Madrid, Manchester , Buenos Aires. Our bars are packed on game days. We have been gripped, caught firmly in the vice of the scoreless tie.
> 
> Other cities in this country can’t hold our shin guards. No other American town has so wrapped its arms around this event. Why, it’s enough to make you cry, the way we championed a boring U.S. team that would have had trouble scoring if it hung out with Tiger Woods.
> 
> We can’t quibble with TV figures, but I need an explanation. Are we futbol bonkers but every four years? Do we really understand the global significance, the passion of this game? Maybe we do. Maybe we’ve grown that sophisticated, that worldly.
> 
> But I doubt it.
> 
> If we are what we’re perceived to be — soccer crazy — why don’t we have a Major League Soccer team here? Really, wouldn’t it be a natural? We’ve seen how popular the indoor Sockers were, winning championships, going away, coming back, going away, coming back. When the world ends, two living things will remain — cockroaches and Sockers.
> 
> If our numbers are so big — and they are — why doesn’t the MLS give San Diego a shout? It could be because it’s the latest U.S. soccer league, which probably means it’s as clueless as its predecessors, a bunch of ham-and-eggers who couldn’t find America’s pulse with a stethoscope the size of Brazil.
> 
> Our town’s name has been bandied about, that’s it. The MLS has franchises in Salt Lake City, Kansas City, Denver , San Jose. You know, soccer bastions.
> 
> Of course, MLS Commissioner Don Garber doesn’t seem to care about his league’s TV ratings. He told The Associated Press: “Ratings for us don’t concern us. The difference between 250,000 and 400,000 (viewers) is not the issue. How do you get 400,000 to become 2 million?”
> 
> Well, for starters, you put franchises in cities where they watch soccer. But what do I know about making sense? I do know that, given our closeness to soccer-mad Mexico, when big-time soccer comes here, people fill seats, which means they spend money.
> 
> Grasping this are Anthony Fernandez, CEO of Pazzo Sports, and Randy Phillips, president of FLIP Media and Whole Planet Media, who are bringing an unprecedented match between England’s Portsmouth and Mexico’s Club America to Qualcomm Stadium for a friendly on July 14. They hope to put on similar soccer events here twice a year. They get it.
> 
> Portsmouth never has played in these parts, and Club America hardly is bush league. If you like the game, this is good stuff.
> 
> “This is the first time an English premier team has come to San Diego, and Club America is one of Mexico’s storied franchises,” Fernandez says. “We have a capacity of 32,000 for this game, and we’re expecting at least 25,000. Portsmouth has four World Cup players representing various countries. We think we’ve found a niche.
> 
> “We know we have longtime soccer fans here. Now we want people who have been converted to come.”
> 
> But why, pray tell, is San Diego, burning with soccer fever, limited to just a few big-time matches a year? Whither the MLS?
> 
> “It’s a great question,” Fernandez says, “and I don’t know the answer. This would be a great place for it. Qualcomm’s a great soccer venue. Chivas (USA) ended up going to L.A., but it should have been in San Diego, I know that.”
> 
> Says Phillips, whose group represents the money behind the event: “The World Cup has done a lot to let people know this is a soccer town. The MLS skipped San Diego, and I don’t know what it takes to get back in the pecking order.”
> 
> A while, is what it’s going to take. The MLS is scheduled to arrive here with the next blizzard.
> 
> “The closest pro team is in Tijuana,” Fernandez says, “and there’s something like a $30 million franchise fee (to join the MLS), so somebody has to be willing to put up a lot of money. The big thing is the dollar issue. It would have to come down to the right group of investors.”
> 
> So I ask Phillips if he has that much. “I think I’ll stick to this level for the time being,” he says, laughing. “But it could play here. Youth soccer is huge here, an enormous success.
> 
> “(The MLS) should think about it. This is a prime spot.”
> 
> Fernandez, who will have vuvuzelas for sale at this one (and possibly could use replay), says he has another match — even bigger — planned for November.
> 
> “I won’t say what it is,” he says, “but we’re expecting 55,000.”
> 
> Why not 75,000? This, after all, is Sockerville USA.


----------



## buy




----------



## hngcm

Makes no sense to have another SSS in LA. 

Upgrade Torero Stadium here in SD and rename them the San Diego Sockers.


----------



## Archbishop

I could see them building a Chivas stadium in the Inland Empire like Riverside.


----------



## ryebreadraz

If San Diego won't help the Chargers build a stadium they definitely aren't going to help build a SSS. Add in Chivas saying repeatedly that they're staying in LA and you can close the book on their move to San Diego.


----------



## dl3000

The move would stir up a nice rivalry rather than trying to manufacture a crosstown derby.


----------



## ryebreadraz

dl3000 said:


> The move would stir up a nice rivalry rather than trying to manufacture a crosstown derby.


I think the rivalry wouldn't be as good if Chivas were in San Diego. I think it would kill a lot of the bad blood and San Jose would become the Galaxy's rival again. It would be like baseball where the Dodgers and Giants hate each other then the Padres give the Dodgers crap when the Dodgers could care less about the Padres.


----------



## slipperydog

A rebranding would be a better idea than a new stadium or move to San Diego. Virtually cost-neutral.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

its funny to me how some people are adamant about Chivas moving out of LA, yet are advocating for a second team in NY. Why is it so important to get Chivas out of LA?


----------



## aucina

I like the philadelphia union and seattle ( seems to be really big!! ) - great stadiums! and the league is more and more interesting.


----------



## vanbasten88

thanks for the info bd popeye, I was a little under the weather last time my ship docked in The Whales ******  Life's hard when you step after drinking Aussie beers and then drinking a shipload of Sex in a Canoe[aka American beers**] My ability to learn about SD was limited to a few dives and Noody bars in National Shitty 


**Aussie slang term for American beer meaning it's "f***king close to water":cheers::cheers:


----------



## KingmanIII

vanbasten88 said:


> thanks for the info bd popeye, I was a little under the weather last time my ship docked in The Whales ******  Life's hard when you step after drinking Aussie beers and then drinking a shipload of Sex in a Canoe[aka American beers**] My ability to learn about SD was limited to a few dives and Noody bars in National Shitty
> 
> 
> **Aussie slang term for American beer meaning it's "f***king close to water":cheers::cheers:


When it comes to American beer, stick to the local brews, or at worst Sam Adams, Yuengling, Fat Tire, etc..


----------



## Walbanger

^^ Same over in Australia. The crap the main breweries pump out over here is an afront to God himself. At worst a Boags Draught or anything from Coopers is a decent standard priced beer.


----------



## krudmonk

I always just assumed any beer advertised in Aussie sport is crap: Victoria Bitter, Carlton Draught, Tooheys, XXXX, etc


----------



## vanbasten88

krudmonk said:


> I always just assumed any beer advertised in Aussie sport is crap: Victoria Bitter, Carlton Draught, Tooheys, XXXX, etc


I'd agree with that, but don't forget West End Draught..SA's version of the massproduced crap like VB. I was a big fan of the Tooheys New and Tooheys Extra dry(known as TED) while I was at Uni, unfortunately I went to Uni in Melbourne and Melbourne is home to VB, so Tooheys was a bit tough to findIt has been my experience that which state you're in these days has less of a impact on which beers you fin 'on tap' than it used to even 10 years ago. 
Being a Proud South Australian, I'd like to plug the wonders of Dr Cooper' finest Ales. If you ever find yourself in Australia and a bit overwhelmed by the choices of beer in whichever pub you inevitably will find yourself in, you could do a lot worse than ask for a Coopers(doesn't really matter which one - I reckon they're all good!) Other cultural differences, "Light beer" Down Under means Low Alcohol, not Low Calorie as in the USA.


----------



## krudmonk

metros11 said:


> This is a prime example of attempt at sarcasm, with the final product being the actual truth.


You expect MLS will average 16,000 fans a game in 2040? That's sad.


JJG said:


> The Raiders are more likely to move _back _to L.A. before the Jaguars do...


The Raiders are marketing poison down there. Watch the Ice Cube documentary.


----------



## hngcm

ryebreadraz said:


> Actually they're not, but the Vikings, Rams and possible Chargers are.


Not gonna lie the AEG stadium is more of a threat than the Rowskiwhatever plan. 

Does AEG want ownership of the team and are they going to own the stadium?

Still I don't see the Chargers moving as long as there is progress being made and there has (Downtown redevelopment funds were increased + no public vote required, the power plant at one of the secondary sites has been cleared for demolition).


----------



## ryebreadraz

hngcm said:


> Not gonna lie the AEG stadium is more of a threat than the Rowskiwhatever plan.
> 
> Does AEG want ownership of the team and are they going to own the stadium?
> 
> Still I don't see the Chargers moving as long as there is progress being made and there has (Downtown redevelopment funds were increased + no public vote required, the power plant at one of the secondary sites has been cleared for demolition).


Yeah, I said possible Chargers just in case that stadium plan falls through, but it looks like it's going to get the go-ahead. AEG is unlikely to own the team. They may own a small part, but I'd look to Casey Wasserman owning the team since he really wants in the NFL and he and AEG have a very good relationship.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

ryebreadraz said:


> Yeah, I said possible Chargers just in case that stadium plan falls through, but it looks like it's going to get the go-ahead. AEG is unlikely to own the team. They may own a small part, but I'd look to Casey Wasserman owning the team since he really wants in the NFL and he and AEG have a very good relationship.



ya i think its going to be a combo of Wasserman (Majority) AEG and Magic as smaller partners


----------



## JJG

krudmonk said:


> The Raiders are marketing poison down there. Watch the Ice Cube documentary.


I've seen it. And I _still_ say they have more of a chance of moving to L.A. than Jacksonville does. 

Plus it's *Al Davis* we're talkin' about......


----------



## ryebreadraz

JJG said:


> I've seen it. And I _still_ say they have more of a chance of moving to L.A. than Jacksonville does.
> 
> Plus it's *Al Davis* we're talkin' about......


I don't think the NFL will let Al Davis move back to LA. They'll put the halt on any move he tries to make.


----------



## metros11

krudmonk said:


> You expect MLS will average 16,000 fans a game in 2040?


Is the stadium planned for 2040?


----------



## krudmonk

I assume it could last until then, yes.


----------



## slipperydog

Wayne coming stateside....

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/5766929/wayne-rooney-spend-one-week-conditioning-us


----------



## JYDA

slipperydog said:


> Wayne coming stateside....
> 
> http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/5766929/wayne-rooney-spend-one-week-conditioning-us


Partly to help mend fences with Nike who are absolutely furious with him for damaging the value of their endorsement in him and threatening to leave Nike's premier club.


----------



## Cubo99

pls, which soccer stadiums are currently under construction or proposed ?? thx


----------



## Archbishop

Cubo99 said:


> pls, which soccer stadiums are currently under construction or proposed ?? thx


Under construction:

Kansas City Wizards stadium (18.5K)

















Houston Dynamo stadium (22K-30K)









PGE Park (22K)

















Proposed

San Jose Earthquakes stadium (18K)


----------



## BoulderGrad

Archbishop said:


> Under construction:
> 
> Kansas City Wizards stadium (18.5K)
> 
> 
> Houston Dynamo stadium (22K-30K)
> 
> PGE Park (22K)
> 
> 
> Proposed
> 
> San Jose Earthquakes stadium (18K)


BC Place, Vancouver, BC:
From this:









To this:


----------



## carnifex2005

ryebreadraz said:


> I don't think the NFL will let Al Davis move back to LA. They'll put the halt on any move he tries to make.


They tried twice to halt Davis from moving and he beat them twice in court. Because of Davis, NFL teams are extremely portable.


----------



## ryebreadraz

carnifex2005 said:


> They tried twice to halt Davis from moving and he beat them twice in court. Because of Davis, NFL teams are extremely portable.


Not when the new stadium is dependent on getting Super Bowls. The NFL can just say if the Raiders are the tenant, no Super Bowls for you, at which point the stadium falls through.


----------



## eMKay

Dynamo stadium is under construction?


----------



## ryebreadraz

eMKay said:


> Dynamo stadium is under construction?


They haven't officially broken ground, but they have begun preparing the land for building.


----------



## eMKay

Have these been posted yet? PGE Park progress...


----------



## Cubo99

PGE Park will be rebuilt to soccer-specific stadium or it can be usable for football, baseball ??


----------



## matthemod

Also, is it going to be a turf pitch? I know it seems standard for multi-purpose stadiums (in the U.S. atleast) to have artificial turf to accommodate more than one sport.


----------



## JYDA

Rev Stickleback said:


> I think aesthetically it looks better than an 6 foot wall, but they aren't great seats to watch the game from.
> 
> Mind you, it's a misleading to say the front row at other stadiums is better. It's more that the front row at other stadiums is where Row G would be in the Red Bull Arena, but you just don't have rows A-F in front of you.


That's not quite the case because under FIFA rules it's no longer legal to build new stadiums with the first row as close as it is at White Hart Lane etc. RBA's front row is 6.4 metres from the touch lines and 8.2 metres from the endlines. The minimum allowed by FIFA for new stadium construction is 6 metres (touch lines) and 7.5 metres (endlines). They could only add maybe one more row on the sides and possibly two on the ends. You'd be correct if you were talking about Dick's Park or Home Depot Center where the first row is set further back.


----------



## hngcm

bd popeye said:


> ^^ $62 bucks American is way to much for an MLS game.. way too much...Just my opinion.
> 
> The lower priced seats are much more affordable for the casual/average fan.


Yeah even with the "club" option I don't think a lot of people will buy them. 

But on the other side the same seats are 35!


----------



## nomarandlee

carnifex2005 said:


> Now about the stadium, I think this is the first MLS stadium with English style right on the pitch seating. Looks excellent. All apologies to Red Bull Arena but that point might push it to make it the best stadium in MLS.


What do you mean English style?


----------



## hngcm

Rev Stickleback said:


> I think aesthetically it looks better than an 6 foot wall, but they aren't great seats to watch the game from.
> 
> Mind you, it's a misleading to say the front row at other stadiums is better. It's more that the front row at other stadiums is where Row G would be in the Red Bull Arena, but you just don't have rows A-F in front of you.


True. 

At Qualcomm Stadium here in San Diego the front rows are like one foot above the field level...which means you can't even see over the players standing on the sideline. 

For that reason I always buy the 2nd level (Plaza) tickets.


----------



## JYDA

nomarandlee said:


> What do you mean English style?


He means the first row of seating is at ground level as opposed to being elevated off the ground.


----------



## Rev Stickleback

JYDA said:


> That's not quite the case because under FIFA rules it's no longer legal to build new stadiums with the first row as close as it is at White Hart Lane etc. RBA's front row is 6.4 metres from the touch lines and 8.2 metres from the endlines. The minimum allowed by FIFA for new stadium construction is 6 metres (touch lines) and 7.5 metres (endlines). They could only add maybe one more row on the sides and possibly two on the ends. You'd be correct if you were talking about Dick's Park or Home Depot Center where the first row is set further back.


I'm sure that only applies to world cup venues. 

FIFA have no jurisdiction at all over stadium construction regulations, just the requirements for their tournaments.

Here's the new ground just opened in Morecambe this season, for example (bad photo, but shows the stands are close)









http://flynn123.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/img_0598.jpg

New stadiums tend to have more room than traditional grounds as people no longer build stadiums in the restricted sites of the past, where squeezing the maximum capacity into a limited space was the key.

Thankfully nobody has to build in sites like this one in Luton any more.








http://www.saperia.com/Images/luton.jpg

It's so cramped that the entrance to the away end is through a house.








http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/19/30/193045_1d061b28.jpg


----------



## JYDA

Rev Stickleback said:


> I'm sure that only applies to world cup venues.
> 
> FIFA have no jurisdiction at all over stadium construction regulations, just the requirements for their tournaments.
> 
> Here's the new ground just opened in Morecambe this season, for example (bad photo, but shows the stands are close)


Morecambe also has terracing........ Not that it matters because they'll never host anything to do with UEFA or FIFA. It's true you can do whatever the heck you want in your domestic league. That's fine as long as you have a solution when/if you want to host anything related to FIFA/UEFA/CONCACAF etc. It's not just the world cup that's subject to these requirements. Bundesliga clubs aren't allowed to use terracing in UEFA. In Scotland, Hearts aren't allowed to play UEFA matches at Tynecastle because it doesn't meet FIFA stadium requirements. 

Here's the full FIFA document on the regulations.

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/tou..._recommendations_and_requirements_en_8211.pdf


The question is, if you're going to spend $150 million on a new stadium like Red Bull Arena, why would you built it inelgible to host gold cup, concacaf champions league, WC qualifiers etc????


----------



## carnifex2005

Rev Stickleback said:


> I'm sure that only applies to world cup venues.
> 
> FIFA have no jurisdiction at all over stadium construction regulations, just the requirements for their tournaments.
> 
> Here's the new ground just opened in Morecambe this season, for example (bad photo, but shows the stands are close)


True but FIFA also includes UEFA. You'll notice in Champions League games (particularly Chelsea and Tottenham) that the first few rows back of the net in English stadiums have those seats covered up because of the regulations, seats that are used during regular season games.


----------



## Rev Stickleback

carnifex2005 said:


> True but FIFA also includes UEFA. You'll notice in Champions League games (particularly Chelsea and Tottenham) that the first few rows back of the net in English stadiums have those seats covered up because of the regulations, seats that are used during regular season games.


Yes, but they are UEFA regulations, not FIFA ones, and there's certainly no ban on building seats that close.


The overall point was that the position of the front row at MLS stadiums has got nothing to do with any FIFA ruling. It's just the norm in the USA. There's just a variation on how far away that front row is. At the HDC it's daft. It's like they are overcompensating for the days when MLS was played at places like the old Soldier Field, where the advertising boards were so tight that there was barely room for the ball to go out for a throw-in.



JYDA said:


> The question is, if you're going to spend $150 million on a new stadium like Red Bull Arena, why would you built it inelgible to host gold cup, concacaf champions league, WC qualifiers etc????


You wouldn't. As I said earlier, the seats are close at some grounds through necessity, not choice. Virtually all new grounds, even at Morecambe's level, allow more space around the pitch now.


----------



## ryebreadraz

^^^^ Actually the HDC was built with the extra room there so that it could fit the maximum field width if that's what the manager wanted the Galaxy to play on and because part of their planned expansion is to build those seats down if the demand is there for it.


----------



## Bobby3

JYDA said:


> Morecambe also has terracing........ Not that it matters because they'll never host anything to do with UEFA or FIFA. It's true you can do whatever the heck you want in your domestic league. That's fine as long as you have a solution when/if you want to host anything related to FIFA/UEFA/CONCACAF etc. It's not just the world cup that's subject to these requirements. Bundesliga clubs aren't allowed to use terracing in UEFA. In Scotland, Hearts aren't allowed to play UEFA matches at Tynecastle because it doesn't meet FIFA stadium requirements.
> 
> Here's the full FIFA document on the regulations.
> 
> http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/tou..._recommendations_and_requirements_en_8211.pdf
> 
> 
> The question is, if you're going to spend $150 million on a new stadium like Red Bull Arena, why would you built it inelgible to host gold cup, concacaf champions league, WC qualifiers etc????


Hearts play European matches at Tynecastle, they played Dinamo Zagreb there last season. Murrayfield for the Champions League was a money-grab, Tynecastle only has 19,000 seats. Murrayfield has 60,000. All they had to do was rope off the first 4 rows and they were allowed to use it.


----------



## krudmonk

Bobby3 said:


> All they had to do was rope off the first 4 rows and they were allowed to use it.


Heh, fuckin rah-rahs.


----------



## Bobby3

UEFA made them build a warning track too, which I think was the stupidest thing ever. So now they have a 6 inch wide track between the stands and the pitch.


----------



## SIC

bd popeye said:


> ^^ $62 bucks American is way to much for an MLS game.. way too much...Just my opinion.
> 
> The lower priced seats are much more affordable for the casual/average fan.


Club seats means you have free parking and access to the stadium club. Which means a free buffet+drinks before every game. At least it does in Chicago. So it's really not that bad, since you could easily spend 30 dollars on concessions.
You also tend to get nicer food on top of it, like a full roast or brisquet.

I wouldn't mind moving up to club seats in 15-20 years. It seems like a sweet deal.


----------



## SIC

matthemod said:


> I like the way the bleacher seats behind the goal are so cheap, according to that website only $14! That's the best way to organise a good atmosphere! To put it in context, to go see my favourite team (Gillingham, currently 4th to bottom of the 4th tier of English football), a ticket bought in advance is £18, rising to £21 on matchday, the equivalent of around $30!
> 
> Do other MLS teams set quite cheap seats aside?


Yes. My season tickets behind the goal in Chicago are $200. That includes all league games and 4-6 friendlies. Tickets end up being something ridiculous like $10 a game. If you miss a game or several, you can just redeem them for another game and bring your friends. I know several people who have an extra account, just so they can treat their friends and family to games. It's very flexible.


----------



## Welkin

bd popeye said:


> ^^ $62 bucks American is way to much for an MLS game.. way too much...Just my opinion.
> 
> The lower priced seats are much more affordable for the casual/average fan.


Toronto FC charges $96 for club seats and $76 for standard mid-field seats, so $62 for club seats in KC is not that bad.


----------



## matthemod

It would be interesting to see a comparison between MLS ticket prices across the entire league. I'm sure there's a website out there which probably has one.

I'm not entirely knowledgeable of the MLS, but is it in any way similar to the NFL where (and i'm asking this on a very vague assumption as well), that in some way revenue is shared throughout the league?


----------



## JYDA

matthemod said:


> I'm not entirely knowledgeable of the MLS, but is it in any way similar to the NFL where (and i'm asking this on a very vague assumption as well), that in some way revenue is shared throughout the league?


I believe it's 30% of ticket revenue is pooled to the league and shared.


----------



## Rev Stickleback

matthemod said:


> It would be interesting to see a comparison between MLS ticket prices across the entire league. I'm sure there's a website out there which probably has one.
> 
> I'm not entirely knowledgeable of the MLS, but is it in any way similar to the NFL where (and i'm asking this on a very vague assumption as well), that in some way revenue is shared throughout the league?


There's also the system of "single entity" which means the league is effictively one club owning all the players, with individual team owners paying for the right to host games involving players they don't own, but have been allocated to them.

Wiki defines it as....MLS operates under a single-entity structure in which teams are centrally controlled by the league. In order to keep costs under control, revenues are shared throughout the league, player contracts are negotiated by the league, and ultimately players are contracted not with individual teams but with the league itself


----------



## matthemod

So, if I have this correct, the players aren't paid by the clubs but paid by the MLS as a whole.

However, in order to get said players I'm guessing each team has to pay the MLS for their services?

Only reason I ask is because it always made me wonder if the MLS is designed to prevent such monopolisations of the richest teams as experienced over this side of the Atlantic. I.E. Seattle are getting a huge attendance, but that does not mean that Seattle can just use their revenue to buy all of the best players as opposed to say San Jose who aren't getting as much.


----------



## hngcm

^^MLS has a salary cap (I think it's 2.55 million) which is the total amount a team can spend on players (well...the league pays them). 

But in order to remain competitive with other leagues, they have the Designated Players rule which lets a team bring in up to 3 players that they can pay any amount of money as long as the owner is willing to pay for him personally. The designated players still add to the salary cap but only a fraction of the money they're getting ($335,000). 

So theoretically a team could bring in CR7, Kaka, and Messi, and surround them with a bunch of low-paid scrubs.


----------



## hngcm

And actually, currently the New York Red Bulls have 3 designated players: Thierry Henry, Rafael Marquez, and Juan Pablo Angel. Both Henry and Marquez make about 5 million a year.

The LA Galaxy has 2: Landon Donovan and Beckham. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_Player_Rule


----------



## SIC

matthemod said:


> So, if I have this correct, the players aren't paid by the clubs but paid by the MLS as a whole.
> 
> However, in order to get said players I'm guessing each team has to pay the MLS for their services?
> 
> Only reason I ask is because it always made me wonder if the MLS is designed to prevent such monopolisations of the richest teams as experienced over this side of the Atlantic. I.E. Seattle are getting a huge attendance, but that does not mean that Seattle can just use their revenue to buy all of the best players as opposed to say San Jose who aren't getting as much.


Yes, exactly. The league was set-up to prevent another NASL style flameout. The league owns all the player contracts, except for those of designated players like David Beckham, Hendry, Marquez, Ljunberg and etc. Those are paid for by the individual club.

The salary cap penalty for DPs has been lowered as well.

But I think the biggest development for the league is allowing teams to sign as many players from it's academy's as they can. Before this, they were limited to a small number and the rest had to go into the draft, in theory.


----------



## SIC

Welkin said:


> Toronto FC charges $96 for club seats and $76 for standard mid-field seats, so $62 for club seats in KC is not that bad.


I think this is a simple case of supply and demand. Toronto FC sells out most of it's games. KC couldn't give away tickets when they played at arrowhead.


----------



## mattec

A bit OT, but the Colorado Rapids just beat FC Dallas to win the MLS Cup at Tronto's BMO Field


----------



## bd popeye

mattec said:


> A bit OT, but the Colorado Rapids just beat FC Dallas to win the MLS Cup at Tronto's BMO Field


I did not see the game but I was intrested in whowon and the attendance..

This from the AP as posted on yahoo sports..



> The attendance was announced at 21,700, a sellout, but there were hundreds of empty seats scattered around the stadium. The temperature at kickoff was 45 degrees.


I turned the game on in the 86 minute and saw lots and lots of empty seats.. Why?? I thought soccer was popular in Toronto?


----------



## mattec

bd popeye said:


> mattec said:
> 
> 
> 
> A bit OT, but the Colorado Rapids just beat FC Dallas to win the MLS Cup at Tronto's BMO Field[/QUOTTE]
> 
> I did not see the game but I was intrested in whowon and the attendance..
> 
> This from the AP as posted on yahoo sports..
> 
> 
> 
> I turned the game on in the 86 minute and saw lots and lots of empty seats.. Why?? I thought soccer was popular in Toronto?
> 
> 
> 
> I guess it'd have to do with having two teams that aren't very popular out of their respective markets and are located over 1000 miles away from toronto in the final, I think a lot of those tickets were sold with the thought of either LA or NY in the final.
Click to expand...


----------



## SIC

bd popeye said:


> mattec said:
> 
> 
> 
> A bit OT, but the Colorado Rapids just beat FC Dallas to win the MLS Cup at Tronto's BMO Field[/QUOTTE]
> 
> I did not see the game but I was intrested in whowon and the attendance..
> 
> This from the AP as posted on yahoo sports..
> 
> 
> 
> I turned the game on in the 86 minute and saw lots and lots of empty seats.. Why?? I thought soccer was popular in Toronto?
> 
> 
> 
> Theres always lots of empty seats in toronto around the 8th minute. That's when their commuter rail line leaves the stadium. So people who don't want to wait 50 minutes after another game always leave around that time. Or at least, that's what people in Toronto tell me.
Click to expand...


----------



## eMKay

bd popeye said:


> I turned the game on in the 86 minute and saw lots and lots of empty seats.. Why?? I thought soccer was popular in Toronto?


Toronto FC is popular in Toronto. I think the MLS cup being played in neutral sites is pretty stupid, I mean, it's not the Superbowl. The sport is not popular enough to make it exiting in a neutral site, you're going to get neutral fans.


----------



## bd popeye

eMKay sez..


> Toronto FC is popular in Toronto. I think the MLS cup being played in neutral sites is pretty stupid, I mean, it's not the Superbowl. The sport is not popular enough to make it exiting in a neutral site, you're going to get neutral fans.


Agreed!

Thanks guys!^^

Question..Why does the MLS have it's championship game at a neutral site? I think they should have the Championship game at the stadium of the team playing in the Championship match with the best record. Just my opinion.


----------



## slipperydog

Think they are actually looking at doing this, just like the new Pac-10 championship game. What they can do is split the tickets equally between the two teams, and any tickets returned by the visiting team could be sold to the general public or local fans.


----------



## matthemod

I suppose the issue with that comes from the fact you would have to be among the most die-hard fans ever, to sell that many for a game that just happens to be 1'500 miles away from both teams involved. But then unfortunately that's just comes with having a mahusive country.


----------



## JYDA

As someone who was at the game last night I can tell you there's one major reason the place wasn't quite full. A 9:00 pm kick-off on a Sunday night is insane! Whose idea was that? Everyone knew it would be cold in late november but when you throw in the prospect of a crazy late start with work the next day it becomes impractical for a lot of people who would otherwise want to attend. That's what I heard from a lot of people. Not everyone lives downtown and a 30 minute commute preceded by a hellish escape from the parking lot forced a lot of people to say no thanks. 

I had extra tickets but couldn't even give them away due to the start time. people were interested until you tell them it's 9:00 pm on a Sunday it's a big "no thanks". People would've been more willing to tough it out for a team they had a genuine rooting interest in but without that it's not enough.

I stayed until the end and got home just before 1:00 but then again I'm crazy and don't mind feeling like crap today.



As for the issue of neutral sites, I agree it should be scrapped. Garber has always cited two main reasons for avoiding it. 

The first being a lack of control over venues however that problem is close to being a thing of the past with Houston, Kansas City about to get their own stadiums with new teams Vancouver, Portland, and Montreal set to have control of dates as well. 

Garber's other reasoning which he doesn't cite as much is the annual festivities that surround the game such as the awards banquets and summits and all that unnecessary stuff that has to be planned in advance. Personally, this stuff is all fluff and should held a week later in Vegas or something like the NHL does.

The game should be brought to the fans and have it played in front of crowds that care about the outcome. The fact bd_popeye tuned in and saw what he saw is bad business for MLS because there's a lot of other people who would've tuned in and saw the same thing and were surely turned off. In the past when DC and New England played the final at home the crowd was massive. This should be the annual norm.


----------



## bd popeye

JYDA I agree with your post 100% Your ideas are clear and concise.



> As someone who was at the game last night I can tell you there's one major reason the place wasn't quite full. A 9:00 pm kick-off on a Sunday night is insane! Whose idea was that?


As someone that once worked in the TV industry I can tell you that is the time slot ESPN pushed on the MLS. That game should be played in the late afternoon if on a Sunday..maybe. 

Maybe on a slow sports day such as Tuesday in the evening. The game should never ever go up against the NFL or NASCAR..ever! Just my opinion.


----------



## hngcm

Yeah going up against SNF is not a good idea...


----------



## SIC

bd popeye said:


> eMKay sez..
> 
> 
> Agreed!
> 
> Thanks guys!^^
> 
> Question..Why does the MLS have it's championship game at a neutral site? I think they should have the Championship game at the stadium of the team playing in the Championship match with the best record. Just my opinion.


Well, I think it's because when MLS started in 1996 no team played in it's own stadium. So they had to book a stadium far in advance to make sure it would be available. Most of them shared stadiums with NFL or College teams.
This is still the case with New England, Seattle and Vancouver (well CFL) and maybe another one or two teams.

So they'd have to work that out. But they also like having a final in advance because they fly-in league sponsors and potential sponsors and do a lot of a fan events in the week leading up to the game.

I mean, what would happen if I dunno, Kansas makes the final and at the same time theres a huge convention in town and the league can't find enough hotel rooms for media and etc. I think that happened to MLB before.

Both methods have their downsides and upsides. But I personally would prefer a two-legged final. I would like the whole playoffs to be home and away, with road goals.


----------



## soup or man

Meh. I think that the MLS Cup should be played at the stadium of the team with the better record.


----------



## Bobby3

It's terribly silly. But I think Garber has an incredible fear of a bandbox like San Jose hosting right now.


----------



## JJG

Why NOT a neutral site? It makes it so where a team doesn't have an advantage. 

If there's just one game and no series, then it should be neutural.


----------



## Bobby3

Because the attendance is crappy. There's only one week to prepare travel plans too, and if it's on a Sunday, get a day off work.


----------



## krudmonk

JJG said:


> Why NOT a neutral site? It makes it so where a team doesn't have an advantage.
> 
> If there's just one game and no series, then it should be neutural.


Many would argue that regular season results warranted an advantage for FCD over the Rapids.


----------



## slipperydog

There needs to be a much bigger reward for the Supporters Shield winner than just a spot in the Champions League and home field for two rounds. They need to have a bye in the first round, and home-field advantage for the final. And like I said, you can always split the tickets 50-50, and the visiting team has the option of returning any tickets they can't sell back to the home team.


----------



## soup or man

Bobby3 said:


> It's terribly silly. But I think Garber has an incredible fear of a bandbox like San Jose hosting right now.


Well in SJ's case, if they reach the MLS Cup before they get a new stadium, they could play in Sanford Stadium.


----------



## ryebreadraz

soup or man said:


> Well in SJ's case, if they reach the MLS Cup before they get a new stadium, they could play in Sanford Stadium.


More likely they play at the Oakland Coliseum, but the point is the same.


----------



## brewerfan386

Why was the USA world cup bid thread closed???


----------



## krudmonk

because of bogan soccer zealots


----------



## JJG

> Because the attendance is crappy. There's only one week to prepare travel plans too, and if it's on a Sunday, get a day off work.





krudmonk said:


> Many would argue that regular season results warranted an advantage for FCD over the Rapids.


But there's still another game to be played. The season is just for you to get there. 

I know this isn't the place to bring up this certain league, but.... take a page from the NFL.

With the Super Bowl, you have two weeks to prepare and make travel arrangements (which ironically, people complain about _that_), book a hotel and what not.

And, this isn't a shot at "Soccer in America", but I'd say the attendance issue is there just because of attitudes twoards the sport in this country. Notice how little ESPN was hyping the game up. The MLS Cup is a championship game of the top League in that sport for this country, and they treated it like a MAC football game on Tuesday night. It's tough for the MLS to compete with the NFL....


----------



## Bobby3

The playoff issue is touchy in soccer anyway. Some people hate them, some people think MLS needs them to maintain some sort of connection with "traditional Americans".

I personally think that with expansion next year they should play a balanced schedule of 34 games and just let the chips fall where they may, whoever wins is the winner. But since some people do require a playoff, I'd put three teams in and do it like this:

Second v Third @ Second's stadium

First v Winner @ First's stadium

It'd reward a good season, eliminate some clutter, and keep a playoff system for people that need to have it around.


----------



## JYDA

Bobby3 said:


> The playoff issue is touchy in soccer anyway. Some people hate them, some people think MLS needs them to maintain some sort of connection with "traditional Americans".
> 
> I personally think that with expansion next year they should play a balanced schedule of 34 games and just let the chips fall where they may, whoever wins is the winner. But since some people do require a playoff, I'd put three teams in and do it like this:
> 
> Second v Third @ Second's stadium
> 
> First v Winner @ First's stadium
> 
> It'd reward a good season, eliminate some clutter, and keep a playoff system for people that need to have it around.



And what happens when you get half way through the season and 80% of teams are eliminated from the title race? What is there to convince fans that it's worthwhile to continue buying tickets when there's nothing left to play for? There's no relegation to avoid and it's not like CONCACAF Champions League spots are coveted at all. 

It needs to be said that a lack of playoffs works in Europe because there are so many other things to play for. Champions League spots, Europa League spots, and avoiding relegation. MLS doesn't have these (no, superliga and CCL aren't enticing carrots). It's an apples to oranges comparison. I'm all for making the playoffs more meaningful but eliminating them altogether is a dangerous move.


----------



## bd popeye

Bad Tv news for the MLS..

MLS championship game sets ratings low



> NEW YORK — Colorado's victory over Dallas set a record-low for English-language U.S. television viewers for Major League Soccer's championship game.
> 
> The 2-1 win Sunday night received a 0.4 rating and 748,000 viewers on ESPN, Nielsen Media Research said Tuesday. That's down from a 0.7 rating and 1.14 million viewers for Real Salt Lake's win over Los Angeles in 2009.
> 
> Since the league started play in 1996, the previous low for viewers was 876,000 for San Jose's win over Chicago in 2003.
> 
> This year's game also received a 0.1 rating and 232,000 viewers on Spanish-language Galavision.


----------



## soup or man

I can understand that. Colorado Rapids and FC Dallas are not marquee teams in the MLS. At least not on the level as the Galaxy or Red Bull New York.


----------



## koolio

Attendance was so poor primarily because people in Toronto have been turned off because of how shitty the ownership of Toronto FC has been treating the fans. TFC has been the shittiest team in the league yet the ownership has been increasing ticket prices every year without the slightest concern of how the dual tandem of a shitty team and increase in ticket prices will lead to the growth of the sport/team in the future. If TFC was a successful team, I can guarantee that the game on Sunday would have been sold out, even if the teams were Dallas and Colorado and the start time was 9 PM. BMO Field is rarely truly sold out anymore (i.e. having people occupy the seats that are paid for), so this was not a surprise to me.


----------



## eMKay

Sounds like something MLS&E would do.


----------



## hngcm

bd popeye said:


> Bad Tv news for the MLS..
> 
> MLS championship game sets ratings low


I think its mostly because they went against SNF...

I'm a soccer fan but I watched SNF instead. 

Colts vs Patriots...you can't beat that!


----------



## soup or man

What do you guys think of this?



> L.A. Sports Arena Releases Draft Environmental Impact Report
> Paresh Dave | November 19, 2010
> Executive Producer
> Neon Tommy
> 
> The Los Angeles Memorial Sports Arena could be demolished, yielding to either an amphitheater or a soccer stadium under draft plans released earlier this week to reinvigorate the publicly managed, cash-strapped and deteriorating entertainment venue that has been short on programming.
> 
> In an under-the-radar fashion recently typical of the the body that oversees the 15-acre Sports Arena campus near Exposition Park, the L.A. Memorial Coliseum Commission released a 347-page draft environmental impact report for the dueling project options on Monday. It's unclear how the demolition and redevelopment would be funded.
> 
> The soccer stadium option is the third vision for a new sports facility in Los Angeles County, following Ed Roski's plan for an NFL stadium in the City of Industry and an AEG proposal also released this week for a $725 million stadium that would be designed to house an NFL team and the World Cup.
> 
> The Sports Arena has come under scrutiny during recent weeks because its financial woes may have forced the Coliseum Commission to suprisingly rescind a ban on electronic music festivals, more commonly known as raves, at the facility. The festivals have been one of the few steady streams of revenue for the aging facility, likely bringing in a few hundred thousand dollars annually. The release of the draft environmental impact report officially brings the commission to a crossroads.
> 
> As early as January, the nine people who sit on the panel will have to decide to do one of three things: go forward with the soccer stadium idea and mount a challenge to proposals of Roski and AEG; construct an amphitheater and hope people make good use of it; or launch a smaller renovation of the existing facility while watching it sink into a deeper operating deficit.
> 
> The amphitheater option would feature an 800-square-foot stage backed by an open half-dome shell and a large grass field flanked by flag poles. Not included in the plans are any fixed seats, video boards or fencing. Concession stands and restrooms "may be provided," the report says. Events that could be held here include Farmer's Markets, rallies, festivals, exercise groups, concerts, neighborhood carnivals and special ceremonies.
> 
> A very preliminary concept drawing of what the soccer stadium may look like.The other option envisions a 22,000-seat Major League Soccer stadium, offering some competition to the Home Depot Center in Carson. The stadium plan calls for MLS games, exhibition games and USC soccer games to be played there. At the varsity level, USC only has a women's team. Local teams would be allowed to practice there as well.
> 
> The plan mentions no outisde retail or dining components--items that may ultimately be needed for financial viability.
> 
> The stadium, which would be oriented the same way as the arena is right now, would also hold concerts and rallies. If USC's team moves into this new stadium, it's current field near Hoover Street and 30th Street would likely become available for USC to develop on.
> 
> The seven-story Sports Arena opened 51 years ago amid a nationwide boom in arena construction, providing the region its first new sports venue in about 25 years.
> 
> Most of the arena's highlights came in its first few years of existence, hosting boxing, basketball, hockey, the 1960 Democratic National Convention and the 1961 Freedom Rally at which Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. spoke.
> 
> But professional sports franchises such as the Lakers and Kings quickly moved to other location such as The Forum and Pauley Pavilion. Only the Clippers would come play at the arena from 1984 to 1999.
> 
> During the past five years, an event has been held there, on average, only once every six days. Nearly all of the events attracted less than 10,000 people. In comparison, the Staples Center held about four times as many events, according to the website of its owner, AEG.
> 
> Most of the environmental impacts mentioned in the report are routine ones that one would expect from a major construction project. Lighting and noise may anger residents living along Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard. But because the Sports Arena is built in a big ditch, the stadium and amphitheater would also maintain low profiles.
> 
> The parking and traffic situation would also change very little because even if the Coliseum and Sports Arena held concurrent events, overall capacity would be limited to about the same level as right now. About 20,000 parking spaces exist throughout Exposition Park and USC, and no additional ones would have to be added.
> 
> The report states the Sports Arena needs $8.2 million in upgrades--from new seats to new plumbing and heating systems--within the next five years to keep operating. Each of the past five fiscal years, however, has brought operating losses totaling nearly $4 million. Because the commission doesn't receive any taxpayer subsidies, it doesn't have the cash to pay for those fixes. The document notes that even if improvements were made, the Sports Arena would not be any more competitive with venues such as the 19,000-seat Staples Center.
> 
> The arena's present configuration allows it hold about 15,000 people for hockey, boxing and basketball events.
> 
> L.A. Coliseum Commission general manager Pat Lynch has not responded to several voicemails left by Neon Tommy during the past two weeks. Members of the Coliseum Commission, including L.A. County supervisors Mark Ridley-Thomas and Zev Yaroslavsky, L.A. City Councilman Bernard Parks and real estate developer Rick Caruso, could not be reached for comment.
> 
> The 45-day public comment period on the draft report runs until Dec. 30. It seems wise for public agencies, including the L.A. City Council and the L.A. County Board of Supervisors, to ask for an extension of that comment period since it runs right through two major holiday periods.
> 
> Either way, comments should be directed to Coliseum general manager Pat Lynch at 3939 S. Figueroa St., Los Angeles, CA 90037. The report is available online, at the previous address and at the Exposition Park Library. The online PDF is also "secured," so text from the document can't be copied and pasted.
> 
> Under a joint agreement between the state, city and county, the Coliseum Commission maintains and operates the Coliseum and Sports Arena. That agreement runs through 2054.
> 
> Los Angeles voters thrice rejected measures to publicly finance the construction of a Downtown sports arena. Urged on by County Supervisor Kenneth Hahn, the state Legislature eventually jumped in, authorizing in 1958 the sale of $7 million in bonds to build the present arena. Before the Exposition Park project was settled on, there were three competing visions of "world-class" arenas across Los Angeles.
> 
> The Coliseum has stood since 1923. The commission has existed since 1945.


http://www.neontommy.com/news/2010/...ronmental-impact-report-redevelopment-project


















I like how the only source of income the Sports Arena generates is whenever it throws a rave. Which would make sense to turn the site into a amphitheater. Though I wouldn't mind seeing a soccer stadium there.


----------



## Archbishop

Interesting...I guess Chivas USA would move to that SSS. Pretty good idea, but it would be super awesome if the Coliseum could be renovated to NFL standards (I know it would never happen, but it's a nice dream)


----------



## BoulderGrad

Archbishop said:


> Interesting...I guess Chivas USA would move to that SSS. Pretty good idea, but it would be super awesome if the Coliseum could be renovated to NFL standards (I know it would never happen, but it's a nice dream)


If AEG builds their huge arena, I'd be happy with the Coliseum being brought back to NCAA standards. 

Moving the Galaxy that much closer to downtown (and on a light rail line) would be awesome as well. Perhaps up the plans a little bit and make it the same size as the HDC and leave HDC for Chivas (... or move them to San Diego already :-D).


----------



## weava

BoulderGrad said:


> If AEG builds their huge arena, I'd be happy with the Coliseum being brought back to NCAA standards.


 Many NCAA schools including USC draw bigger crowds than the NFL so why would it need to be "brought back"?


----------



## BoulderGrad

weava said:


> Many NCAA schools including USC draw bigger crowds than the NFL so why would it need to be "brought back"?


The stadium needs renovations regardless. A minimum should be re-centering the field in the seating bowl, and adjusting the lower half accordingly.

The proposed NFL in LA renovation would have completely changed the bowl layout and added mid-level luxury boxes, club seats, a roof, etc. (a la Solider Field)









NCAA stadiums can be laid out with luxury boxes perched further back, and a bowl layout based more on shear numbers than a tier-ing of ticket levels (a la Michigan Stadium, Lambeau field, Rose Bowl proposals, etc). While the bowl would still need changes, it would not be as drastic as the NFL renovation.


----------



## rantanamo

The NFL's higher priced seats demand being closer. Increasing broadcast lighting standards demand closer stanchions. Plus the coli redo would result in all seatbacks. I'll put it this way; Michigan Stadium and Lambeau ended up as what they are because of what they were, and their adamant fan bases. The Rose Bowl does too. Plus, the other bowls have fields that fit perfectly. The Coliseum doesn't. If you're going to spend big bucks on the Coliseum, there will be changes to the stand layout. No different than DKR.


----------



## Marckymarc

BoulderGrad said:


>


It would be something if they re-do the Coliseum like that and the AEG stadium get built. You'd basically have two "NFL caliber" stadiums just a couple of miles away from each other.


----------



## Anubis2051

Marckymarc said:


> It would be something if they re-do the Coliseum like that and the AEG stadium get built. You'd basically have two "NFL caliber" stadiums just a couple of miles away from each other.


I'm pretty sure it's one or the other with these two projects


----------



## hngcm

I hope the AEG stadiums crashes and burns.


----------



## KingmanIII

BoulderGrad said:


> The stadium needs renovations regardless. A minimum should be re-centering the field in the seating bowl, and adjusting the lower half accordingly.
> 
> The proposed NFL in LA renovation would have completely changed the bowl layout and added mid-level luxury boxes, club seats, a roof, etc. (a la Solider Field)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NCAA stadiums can be laid out with luxury boxes perched further back, and a bowl layout based more on shear numbers than a tier-ing of ticket levels (a la Michigan Stadium, Lambeau field, Rose Bowl proposals, etc). While the bowl would still need changes, it would not be as drastic as the NFL renovation.


Here's the updated Coliseum rendos, if you're interested:


----------



## rantanamo

I think its great. A mix of Paul Brown's modernity and Solider Field's modern bowl within history exterior look. Would USC partially go in on this? Perhaps have a facilities sharing deal like Pitt and the Steelers?


----------



## ryebreadraz

rantanamo said:


> I think its great. A mix of Paul Brown's modernity and Solider Field's modern bowl within history exterior look. Would USC partially go in on this? Perhaps have a facilities sharing deal like Pitt and the Steelers?


That was the original plan, but the Coliseum Commission ruined that.


----------



## Cornholio

ryebreadraz said:


> That was the original plan, but the Coliseum Commission ruined that.


For those of us from out of town, would you mind elaborating please


----------



## ryebreadraz

Cornholio said:


> For those of us from out of town, would you mind elaborating please


Back in the 90's, there was a push to get a stadium built here. The Rams and Raiders left LA in 1995 because there wasn't a suitable stadium in the area and when the NFL decided to add a 32nd team in 1999, they agreed to give LA that team if there was a suitable stadium plan put together. A refurbished Coliseum was one of the options, as well as a stadium in Carson and a stadium downtown. The photos above were of what the refurbished Coliseum would have looked like and it would have been home to a NFL team and USC.

The Coliseum Commission, which runs the stadium, made a series of ridiculous demands for the refurbishment and were completely out of touch with reality, ruining that plan. Meanwhile, the LA politicians favored the Coliseum for a variety of reasons and politically made the downtown stadium plan close up shop, while the Carson project died for other reasons so when the Commission ruined the Coliseum refurbishment plan, the city didn't have a stadium and the expansion team went to Houston.


----------



## Cornholio

Thank you for the backgrounder, its coincidental that I read this today, cos just last night I was watching the ESPN 30 for 30 by IceCube about the Raiders stint in LA and the effect it had on Gansta Rap cultcha etc. One of the claims made my the owner(Al Davis) was to build a stadium way out in BFE(Irwindale, CA), in which the city actually paid him US$10mil "good faith money" which he then pocketed as he ran back to Oakland in 95 when the engineers/Enviro report suggested that building a stadium in a disused rock Quarry was a bad idea. Looks like the city of LA just don't want an NFL team. but if USC and UCLA are doing it for the citizens, then why waste money re-building an iconic stadium to try to snatch the Jags away from Jax. Unless the Coli is falling down. I'm sure I read somewhere that the entrances and exits from the seating bowl are way to thin for modern patrons and the size crowds the 2 schools get. Isn't there a basic refurb project in the pipeline?


----------



## Cornholio

Actually scratch that last bit, I'm getting confused between the Rose Bowl and the coliseum Never been to LA, I'd consider it an easy mistake to make when you live as far away as I do


----------



## soup or man

LA wants a football stadium. We just don't want to pay for it.

The Rose Bowl is home to the UCLA Bruins. The Rose Bowl is in Pasadena. It's getting a moderate renovation starting next year.


----------



## soup or man

So the Sounders have a 3rd jersey.


----------



## soup or man

Oh..and for those of you who are not fans of the name 'Sporting Kansas City' or 'Real Salt Lake,' then I suggest that you read this:

http://www.mls-rumors.net/12101/201...y-of-how-some-football-clubs-got-their-names/


----------



## krudmonk

soup or man said:


> So the Sounders have a 3rd jersey.


I don't foresee them winning many games with backpacks on.


----------



## jondeate

Rose Bowl, amazing. How many ppl in there?


----------



## ryebreadraz

jondeate said:


> Rose Bowl, amazing. How many ppl in there?


About 94,000


----------



## El Mariachi

carnifex2005 said:


> The Kansas City Wizards are have rebranded today to become Sporting Kansas City


----------



## SaRaJeVo-City

^^its not so bad, better then KC Wizards.... thats such a basketball or hockey name... but then again their new patch looks like total crap... nothing football like... looks more like a logo from some type of company... like a security company ...problem with US football teams its that their names are either really stupid or fake... ex. Columbus Crew.... perhaps the worlds shittiest name for a football club..... ex of a fake name...Real Salt Lake.... obviously its been ripped off from Real Madrid... I think americans are trying too hard to make US football like european football...but perhaps instead of naming their teams really retarded names they should be more creative...and perhaps use other names such as cities names or the town the club is in.... the reason why european clubs have cool names is because most are named after cities or towns.... Manchester (United), West Ham (United), Everton, Liverpool .....there are places in US cities with similar names.... so why not name clubs after the town their created in, instead of the state .... and americans need to hire better people to create their clubs crests, because 95% of MLS club crests look terrible....especially this new Kansas one...


----------



## boyerling3

Naming a club after a city would be stupid when there are so many popular sports. If somebody told me "Chicago won yesterday" I wouldn't know whether to think soccer, baseball, or any other sport. People don't always refer to a specifically named team by its mascot (ie Chicago Bears could be called Chicago of DA BEARS). I didn't really like wizards as a name but I also don't really hate Sporting KC. As for the crests, they work just fine and some are even quite nice. Whenever an American team tries to go for the euro-style people complain and if they go with American cheese then it just sounds dumb. Most teams, IMO, have struck a decent balance.


----------



## soup or man

SaRaJeVo-City said:


> ^^its not so bad, better then KC Wizards.... thats such a basketball or hockey name... but then again their new patch looks like total crap... nothing football like... looks more like a logo from some type of company... like a security company ...problem with US football teams its that their names are either really stupid or fake... ex. Columbus Crew.... perhaps the worlds shittiest name for a football club..... ex of a fake name...Real Salt Lake.... obviously its been ripped off from Real Madrid... I think americans are trying too hard to make US football like european football...but perhaps instead of naming their teams really retarded names they should be more creative...and perhaps use other names such as cities names or the town the club is in.... the reason why european clubs have cool names is because most are named after cities or towns.... Manchester (United), West Ham (United), Everton, Liverpool .....there are places in US cities with similar names.... so why not name clubs after the town their created in, instead of the state .... and americans need to hire better people to create their clubs crests, because 95% of MLS club crests look terrible....especially this new Kansas one...


From that article I posted which obvioiusly you didn't read:



> Following Real Madrid’s landmark visit to the US in 2002, Dave Checketts the Salt Lake City club’s owner decided to forge a relationship with the Spanish club. In September 2004, the Real name was a finalist along with derivations of Salt Lake City Highlanders, Salt Lake Soccer Club, Alliance Soccer Club and Union SLC. Checketts and his partners named the team Real Salt Lake in 2004 and announced a 10 year partnership with Real Madrid which would see them come over for a friendly called the Xango Cup which took place on August 12, 2006 the exact same day of the groundbreaking for RSL’s Rio Tinto Stadium.





> Just what is an “American Tradition” anyway?
> 
> Throughout our own history of the sport in the United States we have had strong clubs with everything from corporate names ie: Bethlehem Steel F.C., Patterson Silk Sox, Kodak Park, Hollywood Inn F.C., Cleveland Bruell Insurance, as well as European inspired names: Bronx United, Inter Brooklyn, Brooklyn F.C., Empire F.C., Pittsburgh Heidelberg, Metropolitans F.C., Jersey F.C. Cleveland Inter to ethnic names: Greek American A.A., New York Hakoah, Brooklyn Hispano, Maccabi Los Angeles, Philadelphia Ukranians, Caledonians, Hibernians etc, to what most would consider names which follow the standard American naming convention: Fall River Marksmen, Harmarville Hurricanes, Fall River Rovers, Trenton Highlanders to odd names like Brookhattan (NY/NJ Metrostars anyone?)





> Beyond that, keep in mind that when other nations play American sports they often take on American style names as a way of respecting not only their own local traditions but the American origin of the sport. Some examples of this include:
> 
> Yomiuri Giants (Japanese Baseball)
> Stuttgart Scorpions (German American Football League)
> Coventry Crusaders (English Basketball League)
> Guangdong Southern Tigers (Chinese Baskeball Association)
> Chunichi Dragons (Japanese Baseball)
> London Captials (English Basketball League)
> Hanshin Tigers (Japanese Baseball)
> Sheffield Arrows (English Basketball League)
> Shanghai Sharks (Chinese Baskeball Association)
> Teesside Mohawks (English Basketball League)
> Munich Cowboys (German American Football League)
> Liaoning Hunters (Chinese Basketball Association)
> 
> So what’s the problem with an international style name for an international sport?
> 
> And let’s be honest, if MLS were to staunchly adhere what many consider as the tradition of North American sports then DC United would be The Washington Spies, Chicago would have been the Chicago Rhythm and Houston would have been named the Houston Earthquakes, after all it’s a “tradition” that when a team moves it often retains the name of where it moved from no matter how silly that might be. ie: Utah Jazz, LA Lakers, and so on.
> 
> Finally, there is the issue of how does a team stand out in the crowded sports landscape that is the US? A uniquely football-centric name is a clear way to achieve that. Love them or hate them there is no doubt in anyone’s mind what sport Real Salt Lake plays. Which is most likely exactly what RSL owner Dave Checketts was after.
> 
> More to the point Sporting KC, Real Salt Lake and others follow a long established practice in the history in the sport internationally.
> 
> So the next time some of the more misinformed yet highly vocal segments of the US soccer web-iverse get all bent out of shape over a new or rebranded MLS club having something other than the conventional City – Nickname standard which is the standard in other North American sports you can laugh knowing a little better the history of names of clubs in this sport in American and abroad.
> 
> The history of diverse names in this country and the practice of clubs looking abroad for inspiration when choosing a name is nothing new at all but almost as old as the game itself. Something to keep in mind in the still young, 15 year old MLS.


----------



## eMKay

SaRaJeVo-City said:


> I think only Seattle Sounders have a football atmosphere at their games, everyone else is kinda there just for the entertainment rather then being part of the team.




I guess you've only watched Seattle sounders games then, try watching some more before making ignorant comments. Try watching FC Toronto, Columbus, Chicago, DC, Philly...


----------



## YearOfTheOx

bigbossman said:


> Wigan is part of the Liverpool metropolitan area according to the stats


Sorry chap, but whoever created those stats doesn't know what they're talking about. There is no possible way that Wigan could ever be considered to be a part of Liverpool. You could argue a case that its part of Greater Manchester, but I think most pie-eaters (people from Wigan) would shoot you down.



bigbossman said:


> The reason why Wigan don't have fans is not because of Rugby league but because people support Liverpool, Everton, United, City and even Bolton or Preston.
> And Bolton are viable, Wigan aren't and would be lower league without Dave Whelan.


I'll give you Liverpool and Man United and Citeh at a push, but you'd struggle to find many Everton or Bolton fans in Wigan and given their league position at the moment you'd have a hard job finding many Preston fans in Preston itself.
As for Bolton being viable, debts of £93M would suggest otherwise.


----------



## bigbossman

deleted


----------



## El Mariachi

SaRaJeVo-City said:


> ^^its not so bad, better then KC Wizards.... thats such a basketball or hockey name... but then again their new patch looks like total crap... nothing football like... looks more like a logo from some type of company... like a security company ...problem with US football teams its that their names are either really stupid or fake... ex. Columbus Crew.... perhaps the worlds shittiest name for a football club..... ex of a fake name...Real Salt Lake.... obviously its been ripped off from Real Madrid... I think americans are trying too hard to make US football like european football...but perhaps instead of naming their teams really retarded names they should be more creative...and perhaps use other names such as cities names or the town the club is in.... the reason why european clubs have cool names is because most are named after cities or towns.... Manchester (United), West Ham (United), Everton, Liverpool .....there are places in US cities with similar names.... so why not name clubs after the town their created in, instead of the state .... and americans need to hire better people to create their clubs crests, because 95% of MLS club crests look terrible....especially this new Kansas one...


I truly think that the MLS needs to stop with these silly rip-off names of European clubs. There are a few good ones that sound normal like D.C. United and Philadelphia Union. But Sporting Kansas City? Real Salt Lake? Names with "F.C." in them in cities where the vast majority of the population call the game "soccer"? And lest we forget the New York Red Bulls. Possibly the worst name in American sports. The K.C. Wizards was a pretty stupid name too.

I think that these American nicknames sound better in this country though. Especially those that have meaning and history. That is what we should be aiming for with team names.


----------



## hngcm

bigbossman said:


> Also why do all you MLS fans seem to want Chivas to move to San diego?


Mainly because I'm from San Diego. 

I also think Chivas USA needs to be re-branded. 

As a fan of the parent team based in Guadalajara I think it's a cheap rip off of the parent club and many people think the same.


----------



## JJG

SaRaJeVo-City said:


> well US football is pretty much a new thing in America... so it would literally take another 100 years for the teams to develop some type of tradition..and have a history behind themselves like European Clubs do... It would be like starting a baseball league in Europe... everything would be brand new, and perhaps retarded names would be invented... I think MLB team names are awesome, as well as NBA.... but the football names are just plain out stupid...no offense ....and for the one guy that said the crests look good....seriously?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3 detailed men on a football clubs crest...and a stupid team name to go with it....its a complete package...
> 
> there are many names u can use to make ur teams sound football like....Perhaps just adding F.C to it makes much more sense? EX. instead of Columbus Crew, maybe F.C Columbus....or Columbus United....
> 
> Instead of new England Revolution.....New England F.C
> 
> like I said before, its gonna take a really long time ...for US Football clubs to develop any type of tradition, history, pride, etc... most european teams have support groups, and fan bases...which throughout time created team national anthems, songs, cheers, everything.... IMO all US sport clubs lack this...I never seen a NBA game where the whole stadium sings the same song...or cheers in one beat... european teams have this, not only football ...but basketball, handball, etc....
> 
> its gonna take years for something like this to be done in the MLS games:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think only Seattle Sounders have a football atmosphere at their games, everyone else is kinda there just for the entertainment rather then being part of the team.


It's been said over and over, but alot of that just isn't happening here. Not with Pro sports, anyway. 

For one thing, the U.S. and Canada have a certain naming system for their teams:

*[Team location/Name of school]* followed by *[Nickname/Mascot]*
Ex: New York Giants, Harvard Crimson

or, reversed with 'The' in front....

The *[Nickname/Mascot]* of *[Team location/Name of school]*
Ex: The Mighty Ducks of Anaheim, The Horned Frogs of TCU


Don't know exactly why it is that way, don't care why. That's just how it is. Also, the MLS has a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG way to go in order to gain the same historical respect the NFL, NBA, Major League Baseball,the NHL, and College Football and Basketball has. They just have more historical impact on the States (and Canada). And yes, sports culture is different here. Really, a majority of us don't see any point of singin' in unison or having these well thought out chants. Well, at least not in PRO sports, anyway. And our sports teams have their own traditions. The Pittsburgh Steelers have "Terrible Towles"; The New York Yankees play Frank Sanatra's "New York, New York" after every game; The Detroit Red Wings fans throw an octopus on the ice when they win home playoff games; And since the early part of this past decade, the Dallas Cowboys have a tradition of being hyped as the best team in the league and disappointing the hell out of their fans every season hno:.

And just to go back to the naming, I hate when our teams try to sound like a European club when clearly, it isn't. Seriously, what the hell is F.C. Dallas? It sounds stupid. I mean, "Dallas Burn" wasn't that much better, but still....

Point is, different places, different traditions. That's all...


----------



## slipperydog

hngcm said:


> As a fan of the parent team based in Guadalajara I think it's a cheap rip off of the parent club and many people think the same.


It's also poor marketing. Half of LA hates Guadalajara's guts....the blue and gold crowd


----------



## TataMuminka

American sports tradition indeed is different; I will never understand how can you (you Americans, that is) spend half a billion dollars to build a stadium with no roof. What's wrong with playing in the rain if the public wants to see the game? I will probably always be jealous of the opportunities young players have and how well organized sport is in the US and that sport there seems not to be connected to violence in any way.
But this particular difference between Europe and the US doesn't mean you have to adapt in any way to our views. As long as the rules of the game stay the same it's fine. It really was stupid for NFL Europe to try changing the rules of the American football and for MLS to change the rules of soccer in the beginning.
There is nothing wrong with the names of the clubs and with the fact you don't sing anything during the games. As you long as you care about what's happening on the pitch it's fine. As someone noticed here earlier: baseball is the sport where the city really matters and that's pretty much how we see clubs here in Europe.
BTW, if you want my opinion, I don't think naming a club New York Red Bulls is a good idea. The name is temporary by its nature.


----------



## soup or man

Just for the **** of it, the logos of the MLS.


----------



## krudmonk

Oh man, the Revs need a refresh soon.


----------



## Anubis2051

SaRaJeVo-City said:


> like I said before, its gonna take a really long time ...for US Football clubs to develop any type of tradition, history, pride, etc... most european teams have support groups, and fan bases...which throughout time created team national anthems, songs, cheers, everything.... IMO all US sport clubs lack this...I never seen a NBA game where the whole stadium sings the same song...or cheers in one beat... european teams have this, not only football ...but basketball, handball, etc....




























just cause you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.


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## massp88

I am sorry, but that video of some guy lazily banging a cowbell and people halfheartedly clapping is lame and pathetic. 

The only American sport that rivals the Europeans in terms of chants, singing, etc. is College Basketball and College Football.


----------



## JYDA

slipperydog said:


> It's also poor marketing. Half of LA hates Guadalajara's guts....the blue and gold crowd


I thought the same thing when they started it all. If the goal was to engage mexicans then they should've called it something like Club de Futbol Azteca (or something like that) and had the team wear green shirts, white shorts, and red socks. Then let them sign all the mexicans they want.


----------



## rantanamo

massp88 said:


> I am sorry, but that video of some guy lazily banging a cowbell and people halfheartedly clapping is lame and pathetic.
> 
> The only American sport that rivals the Europeans in terms of chants, singing, etc. is College Basketball and College Football.


Don't know why I'm doing this because I could care less about what soccer teams do

Hate to give them publicity





Warchant






what you don't have


----------



## soup or man

Can forget about the Cameron Crazies (Duke University). Their fans are legendary.


----------



## hngcm

Portland Timbers Jerseys:










Secondary:










I'm not sure I like the secondary one mostly because I have no idea why red is the prominent color...


----------



## hngcm

Actually it says it right there lol.

Portland is the rose city...I guess.


----------



## El Mariachi

hngcm said:


> Portland Timbers Jerseys:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Secondary:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I like the secondary one mostly because I have no idea why red is the prominent color...


wow, those look great! The red one is really sharp looking.


----------



## Commandant

BoulderGrad said:


> Many people trash the KC Wizards old name as well, but from what I gather, thats a reference to the Wizard of Oz which takes place in Kansas ("We're not in Kansas anymore Toto"). Kinda subtle but cool in my opinion.


I am not a fan of the Wizards name but it kept up with the Kansas City tradition of naming their sports teams after the members of a royal court (Kings, Royals, Monarchs, Knights, WIZARDS, etc.). KC does this because the city is the home of the American ROYAL livestock show (since 1899, this show took their name from England's Royal Agricultural Society, whose marquee event is named the Royal Show). It would have been nice if the new owners of the Wizards/Sporting had kept up with the tradition.


----------



## soup or man

I really like the Timber's uniforms. I was wondering why their away uniform was red but it makes sense seeing as how Portland is 'The Rose City.' Plus the thorn pattern is really original and very cool.

Oh..the Dynamo have new uniforms too.


----------



## nomarandlee

soup or man said:


> The WNBA has advertisements on 3 of their team's uniforms.


Just anther reason why the WNBA kinda sucks. 


BoulderGrad said:


> So they're using jersey advertising to try and be more "authentic?"....
> How bout a more practical reason that has already been brought up a number of times:


I think they figure that their fans will be more amenable to it given its presence in more regarded world leagues. 

Obviously other sports leagues would do similar if they felt their audience would be apathetic to the change given its just extra revenue for them. However they obviously make some calculation that that change isn't worth diminishing the brand in that way.


----------



## Rev Stickleback

nomarandlee said:


> Agreed. Hate it to the core.
> 
> There are elements of pro sport that Europeans arguably do us better but this is not an aspect of which I am envious.
> 
> .


It's not really a European thing. Pretty much everywhere in the world does it now.

I'd rather it wasn't there personally. Fair enough at low levels where clubs need every penny to pay the basic bills, but at pro level that extra 5% clubs get from it just results in salaries being 5% higher. There's no advantage.


The NFL etc obviously doesn't need to do it. They could double their income and it'd make no difference at all to the product on the field


----------



## Scoots71

JYDA said:


> Do you have any clue how much money minor league sports teams lose?? They go bust and/or move every 5 seconds for a reason.


Most minor league teams also don't have to pay player salaries, which are often covered by the parent clubs.


----------



## bigbossman

All this guff about ads on shirts

1. It started in South America with penarol of montivideo, it only grew in Europe because clubs started trying to change their names and badges to add sponsors nams in.

_"Back then, even shirt sponsorship was a no-no almost everywhere. Peñarol, from Uruguay, are generally considered to have pioneered this form of fund-raising in the mid-50s, and the French league, badly in need of money, followed suit a decade later. By the time Mast got going, shirt sponsorship was also legal in Austria and Denmark, but that was it. All the big leagues were strongly against it. In 1967, for instance, second-division Wormatia Worms, almost bankrupt, had asked the DFB for permission to endorse Caterpillar, the manufacturer of construction equipment, on their shirts - and were told to bury that idea in a deep hole. The only logos players could have on their shirts were club badges."_ from article about its history...

2. Most European's don't like it either, but realise it's a necessary evil. That is Manchester United aren't gonna get rid of it and lose £20 million PA, unless everyone else does. And today the last major sponsoress club just signed a deal worth £25 million PA. 

2. The model is there because we have hundreds of clubs directly competing with each other. All four of your major leagues don't compete with each other and the minor leagus are ether financed by the majors or are scared they'd lose credibility by adding sponsorship. If all clubs in europe agreed to it, then it go, but that ain't gonna happen.

3. Shirt sponsorship has nothing to with add time, because league's make enough TV revenue without it. And for many years it was banned on telly I think it was 1983 when the BBC finally allowed it, it wasn't allowed in the champions league final until 1995. 

4. It is part of the reason we have so much financial imbalance just look at the premier league deals

CLUB SHIRT SPONSOR ESTIMATED ANNUAL 
VALUE ($USD) 
Liverpool Standard Chartered $31.17M 
Manchester United Aon Corp. $31.17M 
Chelsea Samsung $21.5M 
Tottenham Hotspur Autonomy $15.58M 
Manchester City Etihad Airlines $11.69M 
Arsenal Emirates Airlines $8.57M 
Aston Villa FxPro $7.79M 
Fulham FxPro $6.23M 
Everton Chang Beeg $4.05M 
Newcastle Northern Rock $3.9M 
West Ham SBOBET $2.65M 
Blackburn Crown Paints $2.34M 
Stoke City Britannia $1.56M 
Sunderland Tombola $1.56M 
Bolton 188Bet $1.17M 
West Bromwich Homeserve $1.17M 
Wigan 188Bet $1.01M 
Birmingham City F&C Investments $779,000 
Blackpool Carbrini $623,000 
Wolverhampton Sportingbet $623,000 

Arsenal under sold their shirt in a package wth the stadium naming rights, whoever negotiated that contract is a straight up moron. We should be making somewhere close to what Man U and Liverpool do.

As you can see ou take away shirt sponsorship and it's 30 million dollars less of an advantage man u have over wolves.

No one would cry over it except the players, and leagues would probably get more for cumulative sponsorship, afterall when Liverpool won the champions league they had carlsberg on their shirts, baring in mind one of the main sponsors at the time was Amstel creating confliction.


----------



## bd popeye

You know what bigbossman..I really like your post. You generally have facts and not a lot of BS.

Those are some very interesting numbers on jersey sponsorship in the EPL. What a great disparity from the top of the ladder to the bottom.

In the NFL each team gets $77 million USD from the Tv contracts. And each team has as separate deals for local radio broadcast.


----------



## ryebreadraz

bd popeye said:


> You know what bigbossman..I really like your post. You generally have facts and not a lot of BS.
> 
> Those are some very interesting numbers on jersey sponsorship in the EPL. What a great disparity from the top of the ladder to the bottom.
> 
> In the NFL each team gets $77 million USD from the Tv contracts. And each team has as separate deals for local radio broadcast.


Teams gets a lot more that $77 million USD from TV deals. The number is right around $100m now depending on how much they withhold from teams for "league expenses" each year.


----------



## Anubis2051

Scoots71 said:


> Most minor league teams also don't have to pay player salaries, which are often covered by the parent clubs.


Not the American Association, Atlantic League, Can-Am League, Frontier League, North American League, or Pecos League, none of whom feature jersey sponsors.


----------



## BoulderGrad

soup or man said:


> The WNBA has advertisements on 3 of their team's uniforms.
> 
> Phoenix Mercury
> Los Angeles Sparks
> NY Liberty


Seattle Storm too:


----------



## Scba

Thread. Topic.


----------



## bd popeye

ryebreadraz said:


> Teams gets a lot more that $77 million USD from TV deals. The number is right around $100m now depending on how much they withhold from teams for "league expenses" each year.


You may be correct. I read in one site that stated $125 million USD another stated the lower figure. I thought the $125 million was a little high. 



> Thread. Topic.


Yea..this thread is way off topic.. We'd better start discussing SSS in the USA.. I asked previously..What's going on with a new SSS for the DC United side??


----------



## Bobby3

Same thing that's been going on forever. I seriously doubt it gets built.

The USL team here was going to move to a stadium in Matthews but it isn't going to get built right now because it was a county project and the bonds got frozen.

It was a park and some mixed-use stuff with a bunch of a fields and a small stadium.

They'll keep playing at Charlotte Christian, I guess.

/ramble


----------



## Archbishop

It will be interesting to see how USL Pro turns out and if it can survive. I'm liking the set-up so far.


----------



## Bobby3

Don't understand the LA team at all though.

The college cup is being played at Harder Stadium this weekend, it's pretty cool. Nice view.


----------



## bd popeye

Archbishop said:


> It will be interesting to see how USL Pro turns out and if it can survive. I'm liking the set-up so far.


They must be playing in college and High School stadiums. And to me it kinda looks like the UK set up with different divisions etc..Check it out!! I had no idea there are so many teams outside of the MSL.

United Soccer Leagues

What stadiums do they play in?


----------



## Bobby3

Charleston has their own stadium, it's nice. Richmond is basically the primary tenant at City Stadium where UR used to play football, but UR moved so now it's only the Kickers.

Most of the others rent high school and college stadiums, some are tiny and basic but some are really nice. Legion Stadium in Wilmington is highly rated by both football and soccer fans, and the LA Blues will play at Cal State Fullerton's old football and current soccer stadium.


----------



## bd popeye

Thanks for the info Bobby3. As a stadium fan I'll check it out!


----------



## SIC

Anubis2051 said:


> Exactly, Minor League Baseball and Minor League Hockey both exist as attendance driven, yet avoid having ads on their jerseys.


Minor league baseball is subsidized by Major League Baseball.

Anyway, I'm amazed at how much money MLS teams are getting compared to mid-table EPL squads.

You can also count the Adidas deal as jersey sponsorship.


----------



## Archbishop

bd popeye said:


> They must be playing in college and High School stadiums. And to me it kinda looks like the UK set up with different divisions etc..Check it out!! I had no idea there are so many teams outside of the MSL.
> 
> United Soccer Leagues
> 
> What stadiums do they play in?


Antigua: Sir Vivian Richards Stadium, cricket stadium built for the 2007 Cricket World Cup









Charleston: Blackbaud Stadium, the original modern SSS in America









Charlotte: Restart Field, a HS football field
No good picture I can find

Dayton: Miami Valley South Stadium, a HS football field









Harrisburg: Skyline Sports Complex, looks like it's on a baseball field









New York: James Shuart Stadium, Hofstra football stadium (no more football there though)









Los Angeles: Titan Stadium at Cal State Fullerton, one of the better college soccer stadiums in the nation









Orlando: Citrus Bowl, massive football stadium that will hopefully only be temporary









Pittsburgh: Chartiers Valley High School, high school stadium that I guess doesn't have a name









Puerto Rico United: Aguada Stadium, PR United is a new team

Richmond: University of Richmond Stadium, the Richmond Spiders old field









River Plate Puerto Rico: Estadio Sixto Escobar, very old stadium









Rochester: Marina Auto Stadium, best SSS in minor league soccer IMO









Sevilla: Sevilla FC Stadium, proposed









Wilmington: Legion Stadium, supposed to be pretty nice


----------



## mattec

Archbishop said:


> Sevilla: Sevilla FC Stadium, proposed


where's that? it looks really nice for the usl


----------



## Archbishop

It's going to be in Puerto Rico. Not sure which city though.


----------



## Benn

The NSC Minnesota Stars (formerly the Minnesota Thunder) have a decent dedicated stadium for a lower division team. They play at the National Sports Center, which besides being way out of the way in Blaine is pretty solid venue. It opened in 1989 as a track and field stadium and seats about 12,000, though they normally only open up 8,000 for sale. Recently they tore out the track, moved the field (and bleachers) closer to the main stand and have added a few suites and a beer garden in one end. There is also a Velodrome, 4 indoor hockey rinks and about 52 practice fields (mostly regulation). They were playing at a high school stadium in St Paul for a while, but it was too small and the team had little control of what happened when. There have been a couple of proposals for a SSC closer to the center of the Metro in the 10,000-20,000 seat range but there haven't been any serious developments lately.


----------



## Bobby3

The corner of Skyline is used for softball, I believe. It's pretty spartan, but it serves their rather modest needs.

The NASL, where Minnesota plays, has more purpose built stadiums. WakeMed Soccer Park in Cary, Silverbacks Park outside Atlanta, Lockhart Stadium in Fort Lauderdale.

Tampa plays at a baseball stadium though, the one the Tampa Yankees use.


----------



## MS20

You really have to like where this league is going. One thing that I really admire about the US is that teams get funding/subsidies from councils/cities for building infrastructure like stadia (not sure how taxpayers feel about that though). This is main contributor in crippling European teams trying to increase revenue through new stadia. 

The fact that so many teams now play in stadiums designed for them is a testament to growth. It wouldn't be outrageous to say that over the last decade it is one of the top 3 fastest growing football leagues in the world along with the Premier League and Bundesliga. 

Cant think of any other country in which a league that barely gets a mention still has this incredible infrastructure and average crowds of 17,000. This is the type of platform from which real growth can take place.


----------



## TataMuminka

MS20 said:


> Cant think of any other country in which a league that barely gets a mention still has this incredible infrastructure and average crowds of 17,000. This is the type of platform from which real growth can take place.


As a Pole I feel I should comment on this. Our average attendance is not that big yet but I can tell you that my country really improved in terms of soccer infrastructure after it got the right to host the Euro 2012. In our case the sport itself has been very popular for decades but we had no big and modern stadiums until very recently. Now *nearly every* team in the Ekstraklasa (the top tier) either has a relatively new, big and at least partially roofed stadium, is currently building one or has plans to build it in the near future. So Poland is kind of the opposite of the US here: you need to do something to get people to see a soccer game as you already have stadiums prepared for the crowds. But both problems (the lack of good stadiums and poor attendance) can be solved by one thing, i.e. an important tournament - we got it, you've just lost a chance for one. You need to do something else then and if you don't want to use our relegation/promotion system, you may want to use the local rivalry, like you do with college sports.


----------



## hngcm

A world cup wouldn't really improve the stadiums of the MLS because they would have/will use football stadiums. 

MLS just needs the money to be there to attract bigger stars/get college athletes interested in it. Many kids play soccer when they're little but eventually move on to football/basketball/baseball as the money isn't in soccer now. 

I always wonder why the Polish league has such low averages.


----------



## Anubis2051

Bobby3 said:


> Tampa plays at a baseball stadium though, the one the Tampa Yankees use.


George M. Steinbrenner Field, also the Spring Training home of the NY Yankees:

























That last one is actually a Yankees Spring Training picture with the soccer field superimposed onto it, but it gives an idea of what it looks like. Since the dimensions are identical to Yankee Stadium, if a game were to be played in the Bronx, odds are it would have a similar setup. Yankee Stadium was home to the Cosmos in 1977, and it appears there was a setup similar to the one in Tampa:


----------



## vanbasten88

Dear Lord, and I thought the sight lines were bad at an Australian Rules Oval with the Soccer pitch right in the middle. If Tampa were to get an expansion slot in MLS, what are the odds they would follow the lead of Seattle, Portland and Vancouver and go with Rowdies as their nickname? As an Aussie, I love the TB Rowdies colours!


----------



## TataMuminka

hngcm said:


> A world cup wouldn't really improve the stadiums of the MLS because they would have/will use football stadiums.


I know, that's why I said it's our problem - and yours is attendance which is in fact not that bad, it's the comparison with other major leagues that makes it look poor.



> MLS just needs the money to be there to attract bigger stars/get college athletes interested in it. Many kids play soccer when they're little but eventually move on to football/basketball/baseball as the money isn't in soccer now.


Sad but true. But money won't be there if the sport is not popular and to get it popular you need something such as a big tournament and local rivalries that will make people care about the results.



> I always wonder why the Polish league has such low averages.


It used to be very low because the stadiums were in horrible condition and because of the hooligans - a problem you're lucky not to have. Now our attendance is relatively low because a lot of the stadiums are under construction or in renovation which makes the teams play on other stadiums with fewer seats or use only some of the stands instead of all four.


----------



## MegasAlexandros

vanbasten88 said:


> If Tampa were to get an expansion slot in MLS, what are the odds they would follow the lead of Seattle, Portland and Vancouver and go with Rowdies as their nickname? As an Aussie, I love the TB Rowdies colours!


You mean these colours?

http://fctampabay.com/










_Before actually beginning play, the club announced in January 2010 that they would drop the Rowdies moniker and become simply "FC Tampa Bay" due to an ongoing legal dispute over the merchandising rights of the Tampa Bay Rowdies name [4] However, the name was still used informally. On October 15, 2010, the team announced that they will no longer use the "Rowdies" nickname at all[5], but that they are still working to regain use of the name.[6]_

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Tampa_Bay


----------



## Scba

That's a terrible stadium for soccer!


----------



## kerouac1848

> MLS just needs the money to be there to attract bigger stars/get college athletes interested in it. Many kids play soccer when they're little but eventually move on to football/basketball/baseball as the money isn't in soccer now.


But the money is there outside of the US, so I'm not sure that can be used as an excuse. 

Personally, I think the whole youth-set up is wrong and the US is producing far too many duds for the huge number of kids playing the sport. It is incredible unproductive given the numbers involved (I spent time working in the Mid-West about 6 years ago before anyone jumps on me for not knowing the country!). 

First, the college system takes in kids at far too late an age. Hot prospects get their chance between 16-18 and, generally, footballers have played their first professional games before reaching 20. 

Second, the key development stage for football players is probably 10/12-16 because the focus is largely on skill at this stage. Relatively, football has far less focus on athletic elements than US team sports, and certainly physical size is no-way near as important. The question then becomes who is in control of under 18s in the US? Schools? Weekend teams (I'm quite ignorant about this)? All places where coaches often have no high level experience or pedigree. None of these can offer what elite Academies in Europe can, where basically the best of the best go to a football boarding school from a very young age. 

The first true American football star will almost certainly be someone that went to Europe at a young age, possibly as young as 12.


----------



## kerouac1848

> That's a terrible stadium for soccer!


It's so bad I cannot even believe it is real.


----------



## TataMuminka

kerouac1848 said:


> The first true American football star will almost certainly be someone that went to Europe at a young age, possibly as young as 12.


Not necessarily. Everybody plays soccer in Brazil (2 million professional soccer players, as far as I know), where not many people can afford professional sports education. Yet Brazil is a force in world soccer. I think that with huge American population it should not be that difficult to find at least one amazing player who just didn't need the education talented players get in Europe.
Let's be honest: Americans do have the money needed to organize a good soccer academy system. Just do it and then wait for the result. 16 years ago you didn't even have a league and now it's not surprising to see you in the knockout phase of the WC. Sooner or later, you will be a soccer power, I think. I just hope it doesn't happen too soon - if you became the next world champion, it would seem too easy


----------



## bd popeye

Ahhh guys.. I read this article during the WC written by a sports writer in San Diego named Nick Canepa.

Bottom line..until the very best athletes in the US choose soccer as a profession it shall remain a minor sport in the US.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/jul/10/great-star-is-what-us-sorely-lacks/



> Great star is what U.S. soccer sorely lacks
> 
> By Nick Canepa, UNION-TRIBUNE
> 
> Originally published July 10, 2010 at 10:37 p.m
> 
> It’s all about greatness. Without it, history would have no edge to it. Good is not good enough. Greatness must be a part of everything we do, from athletics to bottle washing. Ours is a nation founded on it. Dare to be great.
> 
> So why is it that, when it comes to men’s soccer, the exceptional becomes the exception? The one thing currently missing from men’s soccer in the United States is the same thing that always has been missing: greatness. Not that we haven’t tried, but for reasons that escape the lovely game’s cognoscenti, we just haven’t managed it.
> 
> We have produced great presidents, statesmen, writers, warriors, thinkers, scientists, businessmen, doctors, lawyers, Indian chiefs. But this sports-mad country has yet to genetically conceive a great male soccer player. Hasn’t come close.
> 
> Watching the South African World Cup, which ends today when Spain meets the Netherlands, a cup from which the Americans once again drank and gagged, it became painfully obvious. The U.S. has good players, fit players, nobody great. Never has, while so many other nations with much smaller gene pools do.
> 
> And it’s astounding.
> 
> With a few minor-sport exceptions, think of the activity — even those performed worldwide — and try to come up with one in which this nation has failed to produce a great player. Not even Freddie Adu, an overly hyped American born in Ghana, has had enough sharpness in him to cut the mustard.
> 
> Football. Baseball. Basketball. Hockey. Golf. Tennis. Track. Field. Boxing. Swimming. Diving. Surfing. Gymnastics. Wrestling. Billiards. Horse racing. Auto racing. Equestrian. Bowling. Sailing. Badminton. Polo. Water polo. Rodeo. Rugby. Cycling. Weightlifting. Lacrosse. Archery. Shooting. Chess. Checkers. Monopoly. BMX. Skateboarding. Skiing. Figure skating. Shopping. Spelling.
> 
> I’m stopping, but check, check and triple-check. Notice men’s soccer isn’t on the list. Mia Hamm, thankfully, does not qualify. Women’s soccer is another story, altogether.
> 
> We have and have had fine players. Landon Donovan is good, and he is an American, perhaps the best we’ve had. Not that he’s had a whole lot of help, but great? No.
> 
> I don’t get it. Thousands of boys play the game here, have been playing it for years. Youth soccer is huge. Then why is it not a single child — not one — has grown into a Jim Brown, Willie Mays, Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Pete Sampras, Carl Lewis of his sport?
> 
> There is plenty of truth to the fact that many terrific young soccer players turn to other sports. Chargers tailback Darren Sproles is a prime example. But every last, stinking one?
> 
> It’s hard to buy into. In a country of more than 300 million people, with countless kids playing the game, we should find not just a great player, but the plural, by accident. You would think at least one brilliant youngster would love the game enough to continue, knowing there can be fame and fortune in the sport, even if he must travel abroad to find it.
> 
> I’m talking with Brian Quinn, the former Sockers player and coach now serving as a USD assistant and mentor to young players, and I ask him: “Why?” Like everyone else, he can’t say, but — big but — he readily acknowledges how important finding a great player is to the future of the sport in America.
> 
> “It’s interesting you ask that,” Quinn says. “When I got into coaching youth at the end of the ’80s and into the ’90s, I thought all we needed was to find a magnificent athlete who would focus on soccer, a LeBron James, a Reggie Bush or a Michael Jordan. But it hasn’t happened.
> 
> “We’ve had very good players. We’ve produced high-end goalkeepers, but we haven’t had that great, great player. Think of the Dutch. Their league probably isn’t one of the four or five top leagues in Europe. But they’re probably the No. 1 purveyor of young talent. Their system is excellent.”
> 
> What to do? As magicians might a rabbit, you can’t pull great soccer players out of a top hat. Clearly, the foundation is set. Plenty enough kids play it. This World Cup has heightened American interest in the game. But you can’t just wave a wand and say, “Here’s Messi!”
> 
> “We need to have an impact player of that stature,” Quinn says. “Great players are the guys who produce on the world stage. We need a star.
> 
> “I don’t think there needs to be a soccer overhaul in America. What we need is a vision, not to keep doing what we’ve been doing. We need to create a star, the way Germany has created a new style. Can we create a road map for a soccer star?”
> 
> Great question, Brian, because we haven’t created one yet. All of our maps have led to cul-de-sacs.
> 
> “The press loves the stars and so do the fans,” Quinn says. “We need big-time players playing for the top teams (overseas). We don’t have anybody on the top teams.
> 
> “The great players shine for the top teams. It’s on their shoulders. That’s how you become great.”
> 
> So true. The great are great because they do great things. It’s what we are. In soccer, it’s what we are not.


----------



## kerouac1848

> Not necessarily. Everybody plays soccer in Brazil (2 million professional soccer players, as far as I know), where not many people can afford professional sports education. Yet Brazil is a force in world soccer. I think that with huge American population it should not be that difficult to find at least one amazing player who just didn't need the education talented players get in Europe.


Huh? I don't get what you are arguing against here. I wasn't talking about financial resources; I was claiming that the way the US organises its youth structure for football isn't the best IMO. Brazil has the same system as Europe - i.e. the clubs are responsible for bringing players through (many informal networks organise trials to spot talent which is picked by club scouts. This also is a reason for the general corruption and unsavory practices in Brazilian youth football). The best kids are coached by professional individuals working for clubs. 

As far as I am aware it is different in the US. Football is largely organised by the US Youth Soccer Association, which has over 3 million registered individuals up to 19 (so 50% more than the number you claim play in Brazil). They aren't directly involving the clubs, or certainly there isn't the youth academy system you get in Europe and South America. 



> Let's be honest: Americans do have the money needed to organize a good soccer academy system. Just do it and then wait for the result. 16 years ago you didn't even have a league and now it's not surprising to see you in the knockout phase of the WC. Sooner or later, you will be a soccer power, I think. I just hope it doesn't happen too soon - if you became the next world champion, it would seem too easy


First, I'm not American  

Second, you can have all the money in the world, but if the set-up is wrong those resources basically go down a black hole. In my view the best youth system for football is one where the clubs control the production of talent with an overview by the national association. A centralised programme by the national association with centres of excellence is probably the second best, but that would require enormous resources in the US and still isn't as efficient as the club way.


----------



## SIC

kerouac1848 said:


> Huh? I don't get what you are arguing against here. I wasn't talking about financial resources; I was claiming that the way the US organises its youth structure for football isn't the best IMO. Brazil has the same system has Europe - i.e. the clubs are responsible for bringing players through (many informal networks organise trials to spot talent which is picked by club scouts. This also is a reason for the general corruption and unsavory practices in Brazilian youth football). The best kids in best are coached by professional individuals working for clubs.
> 
> As far as I am aware it is different in the US. Football is largely organised by the US Youth Soccer Association, which has over 3 million registered individuals up to 19 (so 50% more than the number you claim play in Brazil). They aren't directly involving the clubs, or certainly there isn't the youth academy system you get in Europe and South America.
> 
> 
> 
> First, I'm not American
> 
> *Second, you can have all the money in the world, but if the set-up is wrong those resources basically go down a black hole. In my view the best youth system for football is one where the clubs control it with an overview by the national association. A centralised programme by the national association with centres of excellence is probably the second best, but that would require enormous resources in the US and still isn't as efficient as the club way.*


This is what is starting to happen. For a long time, MLS teams couldn't sign their own academy players, since the league signed players and players signed by the league were allocated by draft or lottery. So there was little incentive, but the last 2-3 years there's been a loosening in that, with the start of the DP's. But it was gradual and it led of FC Dallas losing this prospect to River Plate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogelio_Funes_Mori

Who is now a target of Benfinca, Manchester City and Milan. :bash: 

This year, finally..they've done away with that. Now teams can sign as many of their own academy signings and they wont count towards the salary cap. Now theres a big economic incentive to develop your own players, especially for teams in smaller markets who can't afford an Henry or Rafa Marquez.

So I think MLS will soon have dozens and dozens of academies around the country with professional set-ups within 10 years.


----------



## TataMuminka

SIC said:


> the league signed players and players signed by the league were allocated by draft or lottery


As if worrying about the results of the games wasn't enough :nuts:


----------



## mattec

kerouac1848 said:


> Personally, I think the whole youth-set up is wrong and the US is producing far too many duds for the huge number of kids playing the sport. It is incredible unproductive given the numbers involved (I spent time working in the Mid-West about 6 years ago before anyone jumps on me for not knowing the country!).
> 
> First, the college system takes in kids at far too late an age. Hot prospects get their chance between 16-18 and, generally, footballers have played their first professional games before reaching 20.
> 
> Second, the key development stage for football players is probably 10/12-16 because the focus is largely on skill at this stage. Relatively, football has far less focus on athletic elements than US team sports, and certainly physical size is no-way near as important. The question then becomes who is in control of under 18s in the US? Schools? Weekend teams (I'm quite ignorant about this)? All places where coaches often have no high level experience or pedigree. None of these can offer what elite Academies in Europe can, where basically the best of the best go to a football boarding school from a very young age.
> 
> The first true American football star will almost certainly be someone that went to Europe at a young age, possibly as young as 12.


I doubt you'll see the Euro system here. It goes against the American sporting culture of amaturism until after college. Also, I think you'd have a hard time getting a "football boarding school " accredited here. The only thing I can think that comes close to that is the Prep Schools, but those are only for high schoolers and those who need a gap year between HS and college, not for 12 year olds, and they are, for the most part, legit academic institutions who just recruit for their sports teams. 

For High School students, they play for their high school in the fall, and if they want to, they can join a travel team in the spring.


----------



## carnifex2005

mattec said:


> I doubt you'll see the Euro system here. It goes against the American sporting culture of amaturism until after college. Also, I think you'd have a hard time getting a "football boarding school " accredited here. The only thing I can think that comes close to that is the Prep Schools, but those are only for high schoolers and those who need a gap year between HS and college, not for 12 year olds, and they are, for the most part, legit academic institutions who just recruit for their sports teams.
> 
> For High School students, they play for their high school in the fall, and if they want to, they can join a travel team in the spring.


Vancouver Whitecaps has had a residential academy for a few years and Real Salt Lake has gotten one earlier this year. NY Red Bulls is also getting one soon. Basically, MLS is more and more moving towards the model that the rest of soccer does because they were getting left far behind trying to fit the US model of player development into soccer. I'm guessing in 5 years barely any players will be coming through the NCAA to MLS since most of the good players will be from in-house residential academies.


----------



## bd popeye

_It is not my intention to offend anyone or any group with my statement below._

I doubt if the soccer academy model will work in the US. It just won't. The vast majority of youths playing soccer in the US are middle and upper class kids. Their parents generally strive for success. And that includes education. Most of these young persons parents want them to an accredited attend college/university..not a soccer academy. Now if the soccer academy has regular classroom work or is an after school activity that's a different story. In my opinion it just won't work in the US.

Correct me if I'm wrong on my idea how a soccer academy works.

Until all Americans across all economic levels are interested in playing soccer it will always be a lower level sport in the US. Just my opinion.


----------



## carnifex2005

Here's a story from Baltimore about a study they did for the feasibility of a new soccer stadium for DC United or Crystal Palace Baltimore.

_A long-awaited study released Wednesday says a new soccer stadium in Baltimore for the D.C. United would generate a greater economic impact for the state than a minor-league soccer venue, and the city cannot support both.
The findings pave the way for resumed talks between city and state officials and D.C. United about relocating to Baltimore._


----------



## krudmonk

That's a shame.


----------



## Anubis2051

Yurcak Field, Rutgers University, Piscataway, N.J.

Rutgers Soccer and Lacrosse teams play down the street from Rutgers Stadium at Yurcak Field, identified as one of the premier Soccer facilities in the county:


----------



## Commandant

I'm not really sure why I care... But WTF happened to Lockhart Stadium? On the website of Miami FC, Fort Lauderdale/Miami Strikers, Strikers FC, whatever their names, it says they'll be playing games at Fort Lauderdale Stadium:


----------



## Scba

I thought they were going to tear that place down once the Orioles left. It's a dump.


----------



## mattec

Commandant said:


> I'm not really sure why I care... But WTF happened to Lockhart Stadium? On the website of Miami FC, Fort Lauderdale/Miami Strikers, Strikers FC, whatever their names, it says they'll be playing games at Fort Lauderdale Stadium:


might have something to do with FAU's use of the facility.


----------



## RaiderATO

mattec said:


> might have something to do with FAU's use of the facility.


FAU will be out of it after next year, possibly mid-season.


----------



## Commandant

This is from Feb. 1st, 2010... UCSB wants to renovate Harder Stadium in Santa Barbara. Does anyone have an update?


----------



## ryebreadraz

Commandant said:


> This is from Feb. 1st, 2010... UCSB wants to renovate Harder Stadium in Santa Barbara. Does anyone have an update?


It's already been done. They built the new entrance gate, new concessions, a new press box and installed a new irrigation system below the field.


----------



## Commandant

ryebreadraz said:


> It's already been done. They built the new entrance gate, new concessions, a new press box and installed a new irrigation system below the field.


Any pics?


----------



## mattec

just saw this on a Miami soccer blog...... pipe dream or realistic proposition??










Closed after Hurricane Andrew in 1992, the Miami Marine Stadium could perhaps be the most spectacular Soccer Stadium in the United States if investors are found interested in such a project.
New life has already started to sprout as a group called Friends of Marine Stadium have dedicated themselves to reviving this architectural wonder.
I was able to contact Don Worth, Co-founder of the group leading the charge to bring the Stadium back to life. Here is his take on the Miami Marine Stadium and soccer.

http://football-miami-n-beyond.blog...d-max=2010-12-09T15:25:00-05:00&max-results=7

http://www.marinestadium.org/index.php


----------



## Anubis2051

mattec said:


> just saw this on a Miami soccer blog...... pipe dream or realistic proposition??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Closed after Hurricane Andrew in 1992, the Miami Marine Stadium could perhaps be the most spectacular Soccer Stadium in the United States if investors are found interested in such a project.
> New life has already started to sprout as a group called Friends of Marine Stadium have dedicated themselves to reviving this architectural wonder.
> I was able to contact Don Worth, Co-founder of the group leading the charge to bring the Stadium back to life. Here is his take on the Miami Marine Stadium and soccer.
> 
> http://football-miami-n-beyond.blog...d-max=2010-12-09T15:25:00-05:00&max-results=7
> 
> http://www.marinestadium.org/index.php


Correct me if I'm wrong, but when the property for Marine Stadium was donated, wasn't there a clause that said it had to be used for aquatic sports only?


----------



## JYDA

Anubis2051 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but when the property for Marine Stadium was donated, wasn't there a clause that said it had to be used for aquatic sports only?


From what I read the field would be a floating removable piece just like the one in Singapore.

The biggest flaw is the lack of amenities so the grandstand would require an extensive renovation.


----------



## hngcm

Or the fact that Miami already lost a team...


----------



## Archbishop

hngcm said:


> Or the fact that Miami already lost a team...


So did San Jose and they got one back. I don't know if I trust Miami sports fans.


----------



## Anubis2051

Archbishop said:


> So did San Jose and they got one back. I don't know if I trust Miami sports fans.


Me Either...








(yes, thats actually a game)

I think the Marlins and any Miami soccer team may have the same problem when it comes to playing games outdoors, with it being way too hot. Any Miami team is going to need a roof to compete.


----------



## Bobby3

Isn't Dolphin Stadium getting a roof?


----------



## masterchivas

all the FOOT BALL stadiums in the US are shitty... they're too small and even if they build a big awesome one... there's no tradition or passion for that sport so even with a nice stadium... it just won't feel REAL... take the Korea-Japan 2002 WC, they had awesome stadiums and cool infrastrucuture but wtill was one of the most boring WCs in history... same thing happens in the US.. You guys'll have to wait several years to have a descente league... start by calling the sport by its name...


----------



## masterchivas

Bobby3 said:


> Isn't Dolphin Stadium getting a roof?


It totally should!! but isn't it getting a bit old?? when was it built... shouldn't they build a new one like they did in Dallas or NY... I mean it's not that the actual stadium is bad or anything just that if you're going to invest in a stadium to make it better why don't u do a really great new stadium whule u're there...


----------



## mattec

masterchivas said:


> all the FOOT BALL stadiums in the US are shitty... they're too small and even if they build a big awesome one... there's no tradition or passion for that sport so even with a nice stadium... it just won't feel REAL... take the Korea-Japan 2002 WC, they had awesome stadiums and cool infrastrucuture but wtill was one of the most boring WCs in history... same thing happens in the US.. You guys'll have to wait several years to have a descente league... start by calling the sport by its name...


classy post


----------



## eMKay

masterchivas said:


> all the FOOT BALL stadiums in the US are shitty... they're too small and even if they build a big awesome one... there's no tradition or passion for that sport so even with a nice stadium... it just won't feel REAL... take the Korea-Japan 2002 WC, they had awesome stadiums and cool infrastrucuture but wtill was one of the most boring WCs in history... same thing happens in the US.. You guys'll have to wait several years to have a descente league... start by calling the sport by its name...


Don't be ignorant, just makes you look like a troll. And no-one will listen to a troll.


----------



## Archbishop

masterchivas said:


> It totally should!! but isn't it getting a bit old?? when was it built... shouldn't they build a new one like they did in Dallas or NY... I mean it's not that the actual stadium is bad or anything just that if you're going to invest in a stadium to make it better why don't u do a really great new stadium whule u're there...


They are proposing pretty large renovations since the Marlins will be moving out. It's one of those stadiums that is made to last for a very long time. I think we are entering a stage with NFL stadiums where they will not be replaced so frequently. Lucas Oil Stadium, Cowboys Stadium, U of Phoenix Stadium, Joe Robbie Stadium, and Meadowlands Stadium all seem like ones that will be around for the rest of our lifetimes.


----------



## hngcm

masterchivas said:


> all the FOOT BALL stadiums in the US are shitty... they're too small and even if they build a big awesome one... there's no tradition or passion for that sport so even with a nice stadium... it just won't feel REAL... take the Korea-Japan 2002 WC, they had awesome stadiums and cool infrastrucuture but wtill was one of the most boring WCs in history... same thing happens in the US.. You guys'll have to wait several years to have a descente league... start by calling the sport by its name...


I think the Seattle Sounders are doing pretty good in the atmosphere department. 

I'm also pretty sure they have a bigger average attendance than Chivas


----------



## Bobby3

Archbishop said:


> They are proposing pretty large renovations since the Marlins will be moving out. It's one of those stadiums that is made to last for a very long time. I think we are entering a stage with NFL stadiums where they will not be replaced so frequently. Lucas Oil Stadium, Cowboys Stadium, U of Phoenix Stadium, Joe Robbie Stadium, and Meadowlands Stadium all seem like ones that will be around for the rest of our lifetimes.


Cities are being forced to tighten up their finances, so I think you're right.


----------



## metros11

masterchivas said:


> all the FOOT BALL stadiums in the US are shitty... they're too small and even if they build a big awesome one... there's no tradition or passion for that sport so even with a nice stadium... it just won't feel REAL... take the Korea-Japan 2002 WC, they had awesome stadiums and cool infrastrucuture but wtill was one of the most boring WCs in history... same thing happens in the US.. You guys'll have to wait several years to have a descente league... start by calling the sport by its name...


I was at this soccer game in Ohio a few years ago, I believe it was something to do with the World Cup. I don't remember exactly because it was like an 8 hour drive for me to Columbus, and I couldn't for the life of me figure out why I was driving there for a stupid soccer game. In any case, I do remember that the American soccer team kicked two balls in the goal of the other team and won. I don't remember which team because I lack passion for soccer, but I know they were wearing green and their fans wore Sombreros. Stupid hats those are, always blocking spectator views. But at least I was pleased with the fact that for most of the game those fans in Sombreros sat there quietly. It provided a nice leisurely atmosphere.


----------



## hngcm

metros11 said:


> I was at this soccer game in Ohio a few years ago, I believe it was something to do with the World Cup. I don't remember exactly because it was like an 8 hour drive for me to Columbus, and I couldn't for the life of me figure out why I was driving there for a stupid soccer game. In any case, I do remember that the American soccer team kicked two balls in the goal of the other team and won. I don't remember which team because I lack passion for soccer, but I know they were wearing green and their fans wore Sombreros. Stupid hats those are, always blocking spectator views. But at least I was pleased with the fact that for most of the game those fans in Sombreros sat there quietly. It provided a nice leisurely atmosphere.


lol


----------



## krudmonk

dos a cero


----------



## JYDA

Portland has sold 10,000 season tickets and will cap them at 12,000. They've also sold out all of their boxes/suites.

http://portlandtimbers.com/news/2011/01/timbers-surpass-10000-season-tickets-sold-plan-cap-12000

Looks like Portland will be a big success at least off the field. Without baseball, the Timbers are the only show in town in the summer.


----------



## hngcm

JYDA said:


> Portland has sold 10,000 season tickets and will cap them at 12,000. They've also sold out all of their boxes/suites.
> 
> http://portlandtimbers.com/news/2011/01/timbers-surpass-10000-season-tickets-sold-plan-cap-12000
> 
> Looks like Portland will be a big success at least off the field. Without baseball, the Timbers are the only show in town in the summer.


Why at 12,000? 

What's the capacity?


----------



## JYDA

hngcm said:


> Why at 12,000?
> 
> What's the capacity?


20,000. I suspect they may raise that 12,000 cap a little higher as the season approaches. Announcing what they're going to cap tix at is a good way to create artificial scarcity to drive demand.


----------



## mattec

hngcm said:


> Why at 12,000?
> 
> What's the capacity?


It's around 22,000.

By capping at 12,000, you reserve 10,000 for single game tickets; you also drive up demand for season tickets and can justify raising prices all around.


----------



## metros11

mattec said:


> you also drive up demand for season tickets and can justify raising prices all around.


Toronto and MLSE know all about it...


----------



## matthemod

What was the average season ticket sales/capacity for when they were playing in the USL?


----------



## hngcm

Also is PSL Park(?) expansion friendly?


----------



## slipperydog

Update on DC United

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/so...onstads_arrival_and_jaime_morenos_status.html


----------



## ryebreadraz

hngcm said:


> Also is PSL Park(?) expansion friendly?


I assume you're talking about PGE Park in Portland and not PPL Park in Philadelphia (or Chester). Yes, the stadium is expandable, but it would cost a pretty penny, it's unlikely that they get any more funding from the city and if they want to expand along the sideline and not the endline, they would have to deal with the city objecting to blocking the view from the street.


----------



## Bobby3

matthemod said:


> What was the average season ticket sales/capacity for when they were playing in the USL?


Not sure about season tickets, but the average attendance was 10,727 last season.


----------



## hngcm

slipperydog said:


> Update on DC United
> 
> http://voices.washingtonpost.com/so...onstads_arrival_and_jaime_morenos_status.html


Re-brand or keep some form of United?

DMV United? lol


----------



## Darloeye

If they move they should change the name. I like DC United was a cool name unlike like real salt lake and sporting kansas city ( sporting city kansas sounds better ) I really like the american style of naming teams we have nicknames (uk soccer) but its not has big a thing. Has for adverts on soccer jerseys well Iam can just about remember when they never had any but now it would look weird without it in my view. but my local ice hockey teams are covered in sponsorship which just looks cheap and ugly and iam not wanting to buy the jerseys but MONEY does make the sport world go round. But I have seen nfl training tops with a sponsor on the jersey it does look weird also check nfl europe jerseys. One last thing I do like the look of philadelphias stadium.


----------



## KingmanIII

Darloeye said:


> If they move they should change the name. I like DC United was a cool name unlike like real salt lake and sporting kansas city ( sporting city kansas sounds better )


Why would they switch around the name of the city?


----------



## Darloeye

JJG said:


> Oh God....hno:
> 
> Just imagine hearing.... "Welcome to BIMBO Stadium. Home of the Dallas Cowboys..."
> 
> Aw man, that doesn't fit.


THE BIMBO DOME ! :lol:


----------



## carnifex2005

San Antonio Scorpions FC of NASL have released their stadium plans.


----------



## Benn

Kind of a funky little stadium, wonder what the expansion plans look like


----------



## Bobby3

That's a cool little stadium.


----------



## GunnerJacket

JJG said:


> Oh God....hno:
> 
> Just imagine hearing.... "Welcome to BIMBO Stadium. Home of the Dallas Cowboys..."
> 
> Aw man, that doesn't fit.


Shy of being sponsored by a toilet cleanser I think that would be a perfect match! :cheers:


----------



## GunnerJacket

Any recent and decent pics from the renovations in Portland?

Also, if someone has the chance to beat me to it, it would be nice to have an updated collection of images from throughout MLS. Kind of a "Reset," if you will.


----------



## Otto Racecar

I understand the money may be there but didn't anyone seriously consider the amount of ridicule the players are going to face from opposing teams with the word bimbo spread across the jersey?? Who wants to buy that for their daughter?? Plus it's ugly! I feel for the Union fans.


----------



## KingNick

Nice little stadium! It actually could grow organically like many of those grounds in England, which have constantly been extended over a long time period. I tend to favor these stadiums over the new arenas. They all somehow look like peeled out of a mold. That's not football. Football is not artificial. It's simple and full of little mistakes.


----------



## krudmonk

KingNick said:


> Nice little stadium! It actually could grow organically like many of those grounds in England, which have constantly been extended over a long time period. I tend to favor these stadiums over the new arenas. They all somehow look like peeled out of a mold. That's not football. Football is not artificial. It's simple and full of little mistakes.


I find that to be the case especially in English rugby league with the likes of Knowsley Road, Belle Vue and the Jungle. Not coincidentally, they all need to be replaced.


----------



## Bobby3

Otto Racecar said:


> I understand the money may be there but didn't anyone seriously consider the amount of ridicule the players are going to face from opposing teams with the word bimbo spread across the jersey?? Who wants to buy that for their daughter?? Plus it's ugly! I feel for the Union fans.


$12m is enough to see you cry all the way to the bank.


----------



## Otto Racecar

Thats probably true.


----------



## Darloeye

carnifex2005 said:


> San Antonio Scorpions FC of NASL have released their stadium plans.



OMG How ugly is this stadiumhno: Its like a non-league ground.


----------



## krudmonk

Isn't Darlington non-league? :lol:


----------



## Darloeye

krudmonk said:


> Isn't Darlington non-league? :lol:


Yes BUT We have a 25,000 seater stadium which is better than some EPL stadiums. :bash: Sure the last game was 1,489 hno: but its still better stadium. :banana::banana::banana:


----------



## matthemod

Well I doubt the San Antonio Scorpions of the NASL will need a 25'000 seater white elephant soon.


----------



## Darloeye

matthemod said:


> Well I doubt the San Antonio Scorpions of the NASL will need a 25'000 seater white elephant soon.


Yeah well. Don't think they had an owner who wanted a stadium for his ego to sit in. :nuts: Its a really nice stadium to watch soccer in just too big with no on inside.


----------



## nyrmetros

carnifex2005 said:


> San Antonio Scorpions FC of NASL have released their stadium plans.


looks nice actually.


----------



## hngcm

It would look better without that bigger middle stand on the north (up) side.


----------



## carnifex2005

hngcm said:


> It would look better without that bigger middle stand on the north (up) side.


I thought that was strange too until I remembered that this stadium is supposed to be expandable enough to handle a MLS team. If that is the case, a permanent press box would have to be up there so it wouldn't have to be rebuilt in the case of an expansion.


----------



## Scba

It's a dinky little press box, they'd have to gut and expand it for suites and press should a larger team roll into town. Just looks tacky right now, get rid of it.


----------



## derzberb

hngcm said:


> It would look better without that bigger middle stand on the north (up) side.


No :bash:.

Its the best part of it, unique, asymmetric.


----------



## 1772

krudmonk said:


> Chesapeake Bayern


So much win!


----------



## rockin'.baltimorean

that san antonio stadium looks rather.....well, bland if ya' ask me.


----------



## JJG

rockin'.baltimorean said:


> that san antonio stadium looks rather.....well, bland if ya' ask me.


Well (1.) it's shaped like that so it can expand with little effort, for which I can already see how they _could_ expand the stadium for an MLS franchise, and (2.), it's not an NFL stadium.... *Kanye shrug*


----------



## BoulderGrad

Big shrug at all the people who complain about the "blandness" of the San Antonio stadium. What did you expect? Its a D-2 level soccer stadium in the US... Thats like expecting a 2 bedroom house in the suburbs to look like an old English manor or French palace... At that point I think you're just more concerned about a building for the purpose rather than it looking... not... bland


----------



## hqsouza

The stadium of San Antonio is just OK! But for the purpose it fulfills, it is excellent!


----------



## matthemod

Exactly, and if they do get successful and become an MLS team it's easily expandable to something that isn't quite so bland. Considering the team didn't even exist a couple of months ago I think they can be excused!


----------



## SouthmoreAvenue

Good news on the progress of the Houston Dynamo's new stadium downtown:



> The big East Downtown orangish blob that will be Dynamo Stadium takes on a more definite shape in these new drawings. That’s a giant steel mesh wrapping the 22,000-seat soccer and football venue. Inside: 34 luxury suites, 1,000 “club” seats, and a stadium club. Separate canopies connected to the exterior mesh hang over both sidelines and a stage on the south end. The Houston Business Journal‘s Allison Wollam reports that orange lights will shine on the stadium at night — but the tower lighting shown in earlier renderings is gone from the latest images.
> 
> What’s gonna go on under the lights — or during daytime, under the big orange sun? Dynamo president Chris Canetti counts 20 regular-season Dynamo soccer games a year, 4 international soccer matches, six TSU home football games, 5 to 6 concerts — and maybe a boxing match, just to humor team owner Oscar De La Hoya. Plus maybe a high-school championship game or 2. A groundbreaking ceremony for the stadium, on the property bounded by Texas, Walker, Dowling, and Hutchins streets, has been scheduled for January 29th.


From Swamplot, a local Houston real estate blog.
http://swamplot.com/behold-the-orange-glow-the-dynamo-stadium-blob-is-ready-to-go/2011-01-21/

The new renderings just show a refined exterior, and I'm loving it. Will look truly unique. And hopefully it comes out like that.


----------



## HoldenV8

Looks like a rather nice stadium actually.


----------



## Benn

Looks intruiging, certainly cleaned up and a little more detailed than there early conceptual renders, I would love to see some larger images thouth. It is really nice to see an original concept in the MLS.


----------



## CiudadanoDelMundo

It's nice to see how MLS is growing and they are building some nice football specific stadiums over there. Good job!


----------



## Hansadyret

I see Huston Dynamo average about 17.300 in the old stadium so i guess they will fill this new building on a regular basis as well.


----------



## Darloeye

That stadium looks better. looks like its a stadium in holland not texas


----------



## mattec

With RBA, the new one in KC, and now this one, I really want the Crew to upgrade there stadium...


----------



## soup or man

Meh...DC needs a new stadium more than any other team. Then the Revolution.


----------



## mattec

soup or man said:


> Meh...DC needs a new stadium more than any other team. Then the Revolution.


I'm a little biased towards the Crew though


----------



## Darloeye

DC needs a new stadium more than the rev's cos gillette stadium was designed to host soccer matchs


----------



## koolio

DC definitely needs a new stadium. They have the best fanbase in the league and it would be a pity if they have to move elsewhere to a place like Baltimore or something. 

The Revs and the Crew can die off for all I care.


----------



## Welkin

Anyone know if the new Dynamo stadium will be natural grass or Field-Turf?

*What’s gonna go on under the lights — or during daytime, under the big orange sun? Dynamo president Chris Canetti counts 20 regular-season Dynamo soccer games a year, 4 international soccer matches, six TSU home football games, 5 to 6 concerts — and maybe a boxing match, just to humor team owner Oscar De La Hoya. Plus maybe a high-school championship game or 2. *

This seems like a lot of activity for natural grass.


----------



## Otto Racecar

Koolio are you a toronto fc fan? Sounds like you are. The mentality of the majority of their fanbase to think they are gods gift to the mls has been unbelievable.The Revs and crew are original members of the league and are prior mls cup champions.I want all the teams in the league to have good facilities for the success of the league.


----------



## JYDA

Welkin said:


> Anyone know if the new Dynamo stadium will be natural grass or Field-Turf?
> 
> *What’s gonna go on under the lights — or during daytime, under the big orange sun? Dynamo president Chris Canetti counts 20 regular-season Dynamo soccer games a year, 4 international soccer matches, six TSU home football games, 5 to 6 concerts — and maybe a boxing match, just to humor team owner Oscar De La Hoya. Plus maybe a high-school championship game or 2. *
> 
> This seems like a lot of activity for natural grass.


That's very similar to the traffic Dallas gets which hosts a lot of high school football and concerts.


----------



## irving1903

SouthmoreAvenue said:


> Good news on the progress of the Houston Dynamo's new stadium downtown:
> 
> From Swamplot, a local Houston real estate blog.
> http://swamplot.com/behold-the-orange-glow-the-dynamo-stadium-blob-is-ready-to-go/2011-01-21/
> 
> The new renderings just show a refined exterior, and I'm loving it. Will look truly unique. And hopefully it comes out like that.


 grh. this is probably one of the few things i'm jealous houston will have. why can't dallas get a decent sized stadium like this in downtown, like were old reunion was. i love fcd but frisco is forever far from me "/


----------



## SouthmoreAvenue

irving1903 said:


> grh. this is probably one of the few things i'm jealous houston will have. why can't dallas get a decent sized stadium like this in downtown, like were old reunion was. i love fcd but frisco is forever far from me "/


Taking that with the least offense so I don't turn this into a dallas vs houston thing, I'm excited as well, with a few noteworthy exceptions(Discovery Green, MainPlace,etc) almost anything Houston gets isn't of the highest quality built here *recently*. Overall, It's like architects think that Houston isn't the place to showcase their best work.

All of our proffessional stadia is from this century(post 2000), yet none of our stadia: Toyota Center, Minute Maid Park, or Reliant Stadium* were built to be the best for many years after they were constructed.

*Reliant Stadium with its retractable roof was considered among the best stadia in the world at the time it was built, but because of its ok seating capacity and non-appealing exterior, today, it's an above average stadium.


----------



## mattec

I wonder how easily expandable the new Houston stadium is.


----------



## irving1903

SouthmoreAvenue said:


> Taking that with the least offense so I don't turn this into a dallas vs houston thing.


lol pretty sure i wasn't trying to offend anybody from Houston. i love the venues there. i love minute maid, reliant is cool, toyota is eh but i don't think its awful. 

I just really really wish Dallas had built a stadium like the Dynamo's in downtown instead of all the way in Frisco. Its like them building in Sugarland for y'all.


----------



## mattec

Could PPL Park be getting a second team??

"Additionally, if Villanova were to move to Division 1-A, the school's football team would begin playing its home games at PPL Park in Chester, PA, located fifteen (15) miles from Villanova's campus," the survey reads. 

http://www.examiner.com/college-foo...out-move-to-big-east?do_not_mobile_redirect=1


----------



## Anubis2051

mattec said:


> Could PPL Park be getting a second team??
> 
> "Additionally, if Villanova were to move to Division 1-A, the school's football team would begin playing its home games at PPL Park in Chester, PA, located fifteen (15) miles from Villanova's campus," the survey reads.
> 
> http://www.examiner.com/college-foo...out-move-to-big-east?do_not_mobile_redirect=1


The Big East has been trying to force Nova to do that for a while now. 

At least it will put a team in the big east that Rutgers can probably beat!

Of course if that happens, PPL will be known more as the home of Nova Football than anything else.


----------



## mattec

Anubis2051 said:


> The Big East has been trying to force Nova to do that for a while now.
> 
> At least it will put a team in the big east that Rutgers can probably beat!
> 
> Of course if that happens, PPL will be known more as the home of Nova Football than anything else.


Also, I read on another site that if Nova moves in and Nova's neighborhood shoots down their plans to expand their stadium to ~35,000, then PPL will expand to 30,000+


----------



## rantanamo

SouthmoreAvenue said:


> Taking that with the least offense so I don't turn this into a dallas vs houston thing, I'm excited as well, with a few noteworthy exceptions(Discovery Green, MainPlace,etc) almost anything Houston gets isn't of the highest quality built here *recently*. Overall, It's like architects think that Houston isn't the place to showcase their best work.
> 
> All of our proffessional stadia is from this century(post 2000), yet none of our stadia: Toyota Center, Minute Maid Park, or Reliant Stadium* were built to be the best for many years after they were constructed.
> 
> *Reliant Stadium with its retractable roof was considered among the best stadia in the world at the time it was built, but because of its ok seating capacity and non-appealing exterior, today, it's an above average stadium.


Can't think of many in the world from just straight up looking at the stadium that are better. Not even close to just "above average".

As for the Dynamo Stadium, be glad you are getting a nice design that is downtown. As was said, it could be like FC Dallas and play in the far out hinterlands of suburbia. So far out that only toll roads go there. I think it was the only way to ensure that soccer in the metroplex stayed in its proper place in the upper-middle class and away from the "dirty messicans".(Referring to a sports-radio guy's quote that got him fired)


----------



## bd popeye

> I think it was the only way to ensure that soccer in the metroplex stayed in its proper place in the upper-middle class and away from the "dirty messicans".(Referring to a sports-radio guy's quote that got him fired)


Wow that's a strong statement. Man if that is true about FC Dallas moving to the suburbs for shall we say "ethnic/social" reasons... it is truely reprehensible.


----------



## carnifex2005

bd popeye said:


> Wow that's a strong statement. Man if that is true about FC Dallas moving to the suburbs for shall we say "ethnic/social" reasons... it is truely reprehensible.


Yeah, that's not true. The fact is that Frisco was the only place that was willing to finance a stadium for FCD. Everywhere else in the Metroplex told FCD to bugger off when they asked for money.


----------



## rantanamo

bd popeye said:


> Wow that's a strong statement. Man if that is true about FC Dallas moving to the suburbs for shall we say "ethnic/social" reasons... it is truely reprehensible.


I wasn't serious, but that's the perception for some around here. When the "Burn" were at the Cotton Bowl, the crowd was decidedly more hispanic, and the atmosphere was far more loud and celebratory, despite the large cavernous stadium. DFW has a huge hispanic population of over 1 million, mostly in Dallas and Tarrant County. Now the crowd decidely suburban and much tamer. 

Frisco ISD, Staubach real estate and Collin County went after the Burn the way Arlington went after the Cowboys. I have nothing about Frisco. They do everything big, and they have a great collection of sporting and shopping venues. Maybe the greatest collection of amateur sports facilities in the country. But that place is really isolated. Its a microcosm of what baseball and soccer are in the US. Isolated, upper middle class sports, while everywhere else, its an everyman sport.


----------



## metros11

SouthmoreAvenue said:


> *Reliant Stadium with its retractable roof was considered among the best stadia in the world at the time it was built, but because of its ok seating capacity and non-appealing exterior, today, it's an above average stadium.


Reliant or the New Meadowlands, which would you choose? 

I thought so.


----------



## metros11

Anubis2051 said:


> The Big East has been trying to force Nova to do that for a while now.
> 
> At least it will put a team in the big east that Rutgers can probably beat!
> 
> Of course if that happens, PPL will be known more as the home of Nova Football than anything else.


If Nova football goes Big East there is still no REAL indication that they will use PPL Park. 



mattec said:


> then PPL will expand to 30,000+


Won't happen. You people are forgetting who the primary tenant is and who controls the venue.


----------



## SouthmoreAve

metros11 said:


> Reliant or the New Meadowlands, which would you choose?
> 
> I thought so.





rantanamo said:


> Can't think of many in the world from just straight up looking at the stadium that are better. Not even close to just "above average".


Reliant Stadium is the best stadium in Houston(although I prefer MMP's exterior), so above average was meant for Houston's stadia, overall.

But, compared to new stadiums, Houston's stadia could've done much better.


----------



## bd popeye

> But that place is really isolated. Its a microcosm of what baseball and soccer are in the US. Isolated, upper middle class sports, while everywhere else, its an everyman sport.


I agree! Many years ago I wrote Bud Selig about this very same subject.

He (MLB) sent me a form letter back stating that MLB really wants more ethnic diversity in it's attendance. And where doing things to promote itself. What a crock. 

I'll end it with that. Because that is way off topic.


----------



## mattec

metros11 said:


> If Nova football goes Big East there is still no REAL indication that they will use PPL Park.
> 
> 
> Won't happen. You people are forgetting who the primary tenant is and who controls the venue.


The survey came directly from Villanova to gauge the community interest. That's strong enough to at least consider it a valid proposition. 

And PPL Park is owned by Delaware Co. and operated by the City of Chester. If Villanova signed a long term, lucrative lease and agreed to pay for part of the expansion, then I'm sure the County & city would oblige.


----------



## rantanamo

bd popeye said:


> I agree! Many years ago I wrote Bud Selig about this very same subject.
> 
> He (MLB) sent me a form letter back stating that MLB really wants more ethnic diversity in it's attendance. And where doing things to promote itself. What a crock.
> 
> I'll end it with that. Because that is way off topic.


I don't think its too far off at all. Very relevant to the future of each sport.


----------



## metros11

mattec said:


> The survey came directly from Villanova to gauge the community interest. That's strong enough to at least consider it a valid proposition.
> 
> And PPL Park is owned by Delaware Co. and operated by the City of Chester. If Villanova signed a long term, lucrative lease and agreed to pay for part of the expansion, then I'm sure the County & city would oblige.


The Union have provided $80 million towards construction of PPL Park and have a 30 year lease as a primary tenant. They didn't spend that money just to let Delaware County or the City of Chester make decisions on expansion and other tenants. I'm 100% positive they have a clause in their lease contract that allows them the first right to refuse any other tenant. Bottom line, expansion of PPL Park won't happen any time soon.


----------



## Bobby3

http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2011/01/25/fc-new-york-finds-home-at-belson-stadium

FC New York will play at Belson, which is St. John's stadium in Queens. Tiny, but a good move I think. They were planning to play at Hofstra, being in NY proper is a wise decision.


----------



## hngcm

Houston Dynamo sent to the Eastern Conference as expected as Portland and Vancouver join the Western Conference.


----------



## matthemod

Bobby3 said:


> http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2011/01/25/fc-new-york-finds-home-at-belson-stadium
> 
> FC New York will play at Belson, which is St. John's stadium in Queens. Tiny, but a good move I think. They were planning to play at Hofstra, being in NY proper is a wise decision.


You have to feel for FC New York, not only for having to go up against an obviously bigger neighbour in the Red Bulls/MetroStars, but if the proposed rebirth of the NASL Cosmo's is as expected they are going to have their hands full.


----------



## Bobby3

matthemod said:


> You have to feel for FC New York, not only for having to go up against an obviously bigger neighbour in the Red Bulls/MetroStars, but if the proposed rebirth of the NASL Cosmo's is as expected they are going to have their hands full.


Yea, they've got a tall task ahead of them. I think the best decision would be to rebrand as Queens' team, honestly.


----------



## Melb_aviator

Bobby3 said:


> Yea, they've got a tall task ahead of them. I think the best decision would be to rebrand as Queens' team, honestly.


Not sure the name FC Queens works well though 

NYC has to be able to support more than 1 team. Even 3 teams could be a good situation in future years, given the pure scale of the market there, even if it must really be built up over time to embrace the sport more.

If the Cosmos come through with a compelling product, this team (FC NY) really will have its hands full, given the scale of the vision they appear to have. Sometimes though, its not great having a huge vision before they can even walk, as it just makes things even more difficult to achieve the goals. The Cosmos are not only talking about being a big MLS brand, but becoming a global one, which is a very big call to make.


----------



## Commandant

The Cosmos are certainly making a lot of noise:









BTW, has anyone ever noticed the tags for this thread? WTF is that all about?


----------



## bd popeye

> BTW, has anyone ever noticed the tags for this thread? WTF is that all about?


Simple..USA hating trolls. And for some reason,sadly, it is allowed.hno:


----------



## mattec

Commandant said:


> The Cosmos are certainly making a lot of noise:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, has anyone ever noticed the tags for this thread? WTF is that all about?


which league do they plan on starting in?


----------



## Commandant

^^ They want to be a 2013 MLS expansion team.


----------



## krudmonk

Commandant said:


> BTW, has anyone ever noticed the tags for this thread? WTF is that all about?


Mexico has the internet now...


----------



## hngcm

NO to another NYC team...


----------



## nyrmetros

I just want Metrostars back......


----------



## irving1903

Commandant said:


> The Cosmos are certainly making a lot of noise:


ok so if the cosmo's were to be in MLS by 2013 where would they play ?? meadowlands ? or would they share rb arena. like the galaxy and chivas in LA.


----------



## Archbishop

irving1903 said:


> ok so if the cosmo's were to be in MLS by 2013 where would they play ?? meadowlands ? or would they share rb arena. like the galaxy and chivas in LA.


They would probably have to have a stadium built in Queens before they join so I think 2014 is more likely.


----------



## JJG

hngcm said:


> NO to another NYC team...


It's gonna happen. 

Just like L.A. getting an NFL team, it doesn't matter if other people don't want it..... It WILL happen.


----------



## Darloeye

So is NYC getting another mls team? So does that make it 3 teams in that city?


----------



## JJG

Darloeye said:


> So is NYC getting another mls team? So does that make it 3 teams in that city?


Two


----------



## You are to blame

Darloeye said:


> So is NYC getting another mls team? So does that make it 3 teams in that city?


They have 1 currently and their is a couple of groups trying to get another one, but they will need to have stadium financing (~100 million) plus the expansion fee (~50 million) so far the group have not revealed if they have the 150 million needed to enter MLS although the Cosmos have been making alot of noise. Without that 150 million they aren't going to be allowed into the league.


----------



## ryebreadraz

The Dynamo are unveiling new renderings of their stadium tomorrow and will break ground on the stadium Saturday.


----------



## Bobby3

Darloeye said:


> So is NYC getting another mls team? So does that make it 3 teams in that city?


The other one is a third division team.


----------



## JJG

ryebreadraz said:


> The Dynamo are unveiling new renderings of their stadium tomorrow and will break ground on the stadium Saturday.


It's about damn time. 

:cheers:


----------



## SouthmoreAvenue

From the Houston Buisness Journal, 


> Houston City Council unanimously approved two resolutions Wednesday that pave the way for construction to begin on the Houston Dynamo’s downtown stadium.
> 
> The first ordinance dealt with an economic agreement and associated tax rebate deal. The second set in motion the interlocal agreement between the City of Houston and Harris County related to the county’s participation in a newly created Tax Increment Reinvestment Zone around the stadium site.
> 
> The Dynamo will unveil the latest artistic renderings of the stadium at a Feb. 3 press conference, and the team will host a special community event and groundbreaking ceremony Feb. 5 from 2 p.m. to 4 p.m.
> 
> “We’re really excited that this project is moving forward,” Rocky Harris, Dynamo senior vice president, said Wednesday. “We’re looking forward to celebrating this momentous occasions with our fans this Saturday.”


http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2011/02/02/city-council-greenlights-dynamo-stadium.html


----------



## JYDA

You are to blame said:


> They have 1 currently and their is a couple of groups trying to get another one, but they will need to have stadium financing (~100 million) plus the expansion fee (~50 million) so far the group have not revealed if they have the 150 million needed to enter MLS although the Cosmos have been making alot of noise. Without that 150 million they aren't going to be allowed into the league.


The expansion fee is now 50 million??


----------



## metros11

Archbishop said:


> They would probably have to have a stadium built in Queens before they join so I think 2014 is more likely.


I think it's more like 2016, if ever.


JJG said:


> It's gonna happen.
> 
> Just like L.A. getting an NFL team, it doesn't matter if other people don't want it..... It WILL happen.


Just like the Jets building in the city and the olympics coming to NY. Let's be realistic here, I can say it WILL happen, and if the stadium is built in 2030, I would be correct. Bottom line, MLS wants a team in NYC limits because the market is big enough, but don't expect anything in 2013 or 2014 unless they play at the Meadowlands. 


You are to blame said:


> They have 1 currently and their is a couple of groups trying to get another one, but they will need to have stadium financing (~100 million) plus the expansion fee (~50 million) so far the group have not revealed if they have the 150 million needed to enter MLS although the Cosmos have been making alot of noise. Without that 150 million they aren't going to be allowed into the league.


They want a 40,000 seat stadium, $100M isn't going to cut it.



JYDA said:


> The expansion fee is now 50 million??


It probably will be by the time they join.


----------



## JJG

metros11 said:


> Just like the Jets building in the city and the olympics coming to NY. Let's be realistic here, I can say it WILL happen, and if the stadium is built in 2030, I would be correct. Bottom line, MLS wants a team in NYC limits because the market is big enough, but don't expect anything in 2013 or 2014 unless they play at the Meadowlands.


I didn't give a date. I just said it would happen eventually....


----------



## Anubis2051

metros11 said:


> I Bottom line, MLS wants a team in NYC limits because the market is big enough, but don't expect anything in 2013 or 2014 unless they play at the Meadowlands.


Why not Citi Field as a venue?


----------



## en1044

Anubis2051 said:


> Why not Citi Field as a venue?


It wrecks the field. I wouldn't recommend it.


----------



## ryebreadraz

New Dynamo Stadium renderings. They will break ground on Saturday.


----------



## massp88

Why is there such a bid division between the lower and upper sections? It looks terrible seeing all that cement. Similar to Heinz Field for example.


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

massp88 said:


> Why is there such a bid division between the lower and upper sections? It looks terrible seeing all that cement. Similar to Heinz Field for example.


It looks like there are suites in that area on the sidelines


----------



## Welkin

Anyone have a price tag on Houston's new stadium? I read on another thread that it is only $60 million, but that seems kind of low. Also, what about the capacity and number of suites? I like the look of Dynamo Stadium, but lets hope it is not being built on the cheap like BMO.


----------



## massp88

ElDudarinodotcom said:


> It looks like there are suites in that area on the sidelines


I am talking at the goal lines.


----------



## SouthmoreAvenue

Welkin said:


> Anyone have a price tag on Houston's new stadium? I read on another thread that it is only $60 million, but that seems kind of low. Also, what about the capacity and number of suites? I like the look of Dynamo Stadium, but lets hope it is not being built on the cheap like BMO.


It's $95 million, which is pretty good for a stadium of that quality(or how it seems from the renderings) to cost that low, especially compared to how the Dynamo stadium doesn't look that much worse then RBA and that costed more than double.


----------



## KingmanIII

ryebreadraz said:


> New Dynamo Stadium renderings. They will break ground on Saturday.


like the interior, dislike the cladding...


----------



## JYDA

The facade/cladding is a bit over the top. I like the stadium though. I like that it's fully enclosed and not a U-shaped deal like Dallas or Chicago. Best of all, it's got a fantastic location DOWNTOWN.


----------



## ryebreadraz

massp88 said:


> I am talking at the goal lines.


I've been told that it's so they can add more suites in the future if they expand the stadium. I haven't heard that confirmation or denial from the Dynamo though so it's just speculation at this point.


----------



## ryebreadraz

JYDA said:


> The facade/cladding is a bit over the top. I like the stadium though. I like that it's fully enclosed and not a U-shaped deal like Dallas or Chicago. Best of all, it's got a fantastic location DOWNTOWN.


And there actually is a stage on one end too, but they're going to have retractable seating to put over it during matches and supposedly it will seamless so you can barely tell it's normally a stage.


----------



## JYDA

ryebreadraz said:


> And there actually is a stage on one end too, but they're going to have retractable seating to put over it during matches and supposedly it will seamless so you can barely tell it's normally a stage.


It seems like that is a positive new trend. KC has done the same by seamlessly incorporating the stage into the seating bowl.


----------



## SouthmoreAvenue

Some more details from the Houston Chronicle Article,


> A diamond-like façade and luxury suites just 11 rows from the field are among the highlights of the renderings for the Dynamo’s stadium the team unveiled Thursday afternoon.
> 
> “You create diamonds now out of carbon, and we’re creating sort of a diamond of a stadium out of steel and concrete,” said Loren Supp of Populous, the international firm that designed the stadium. “You can see it in the skin. It’s a mesh. It’s tessellated. It completely wraps the stadium.”
> 
> “I think it’s absolutely beautiful,” Friedman said. “I think it will be a wonderful addition. It looks like it’s designed soccer-specific. Of course, they’ll play football there as well. I think it’s going to be just a terrific building.
> 
> “I think the Dynamo are going to have a competitive advantage because the fans will be so close they’ll be in essence an extra player on the field.”
> 
> “Although (it’s) a very simple idea of a stadium, it gives really sort of a dramatic punch,” Supp said. “And I think it really sticks out when you look at other stadiums that have been built both for other sports and for soccer worldwide, actually.”
> 
> Supp seemed pleased with being able to put the fans close to the action.
> 
> “There are very unique features that are nowhere else in sports,” he said. “There are 34 luxury suites, which are only 11 rows off the field. … They’re right behind the players’ pitch as well, so there’s a really intimate feel.
> 
> “If you think of a lot of other stadiums that have been built — even in Major League Soccer — that are the same size, which is about 22,000 (seats), none are going to have as close of proximity of anybody who’s at the game to the field of play. Which is the most intense experience you can get in soccer.”


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/soc/7411870.html

And depending on how the exterior looks at the end, hopefully they pull it off where it doesn't look tacky, I think it is better for it to look extravagant/over the top than mundane and boring. Creativity doesn't please everybody, but drabness pleases nobody.

Edit: (Update) More renderings were made available, 






















































From Populous,


> Rising above the tree canopy, the stadium alludes to the heritage of its neighborhood through use of simple industrial materials. Arranged in a distinctive tessellated pattern, the stadium skin evokes an industrial gem of individually composed, expanded metal facets. Punctuating this bold architectural form, the new stadium is highlighted in orange polycarbonate at three-story-high entries and throughout new spectator areas. Dynamo orange accentuates the unique design across the building, as all structures penetrating through the metal skin are clad in the same orange paneling.
> 
> Moving through the main entries, spectators are rewarded with a continuous wrap-around concourse experience. Primary spectator amenities, including concessions and restrooms, are located throughout the concourse, distributed on the interior side of the concourse between the seating bowl entries and on the exterior side in eight independent structures. At the southernmost edge of the concourse sits a large concession lounge with a direct view of the playing field. Moving from the concourse to their new seats, fans will not be disappointed. Seating is arranged across a unique single bowl, which splits and shifts as necessary to allow for enclosed rooms with a view of the playing area. Thirty-three suites are inserted along the east and western sides of the bowl, providing the closest proximity to the field of any luxury suites in Houston. Rounding the corners, the north and south ends of the bowl peel back to create the lounge area on the south, while the north pulls back to provide a shallower standing area for fans.
> 
> A mezzanine club level on the western centerline of the stadium features an open-air patio with amazing field views. This new club is unparalleled in Major League Soccer and will provide ticketholders with a uniquely rewarding opportunity to experience the game. Above this area on both the east and west sides of the stadium lies a 70 foot deep roof canopy, running the full length of the soccer pitch and providing needed shade for Dynamo fans during sunny or rainy days. A third canopy, located above the south seating area serves dual function as both shade and roof for a concealed concert stage to be used on non-game days.


http://www.populous.com/news/02032011_populousunveilsdynamo/


----------



## metros11

SouthmoreAvenue said:


> It's $95 million, which is pretty good for a stadium of that quality(or how it seems from the renderings) to cost that low, especially compared to how the Dynamo stadium doesn't look that much worse then RBA and that costed more than double.


You can't compare NJ and Texas in terms of construction costs. Just look at the New Meadowlands and the Cowboys Stadium as examples.


----------



## Benn

Union vs non union labor, land costs, mafia payouts ect. do add up


----------



## slipperydog

bd popeye said:


> On this point I'd disagree with you on from my point of view. As someone that is a sports fan in the USA I feel most sports fans in the US could care less if our sports are popular internationally. Most only care about US sports such as football, baseball, basketball and NASCAR.. NASCAR by the way is the second most watched sport on TV in the US. Second only to football.
> 
> Soccer and Ice Hockey as was pointed out are niche sports in the US.
> 
> Each one of us in where ever we live have our own culture. Thank God we all are not the same. That would be very boring!
> 
> One last thing basketball, from what I understand, is very popular internationally.
> 
> Soccer is not a sport I'm a fan of. However I am interested in soccer stadiums..which is what this thread is supposed to be about!


Well said. The great thing about America is that the country does not revolve around a single, national sport. It all depends on where you're from, and what you grew up with. For instance, I am a huge college football fan, but I know next to nothing about the NFL. That's because I grew up in Southern California, and our family revolved around USC football. Of course I know general information about the NFL, like the team names, players, coaches. But I wouldn't be surprised if there were people in foreign countries that know more about the NFL than I do. Personally, I think the NBA and NHL suck, and I find ESPN analysis or highlights of both to be sufficient reason to turn off the television. But I follow soccer closely because I grew up playing the sport. There are way too many Americans on this planet for one to simply generalize or stereotype. As for Americans not wanting their sports to go international, I would guess that most are indifferent.


----------



## metros11

Anubis2051 said:


> Baseball in Japan has far surpassed those numbers. Same for Taiwan and Korea.


And for the sake of the argument, what other major sports leagues did baseball compete with?


----------



## metros11

mattec said:


> I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see several TXHS programs outdraw that...


Texas High School programs perhaps, but Texas in itself is huge. Big crowds at a high school football game in Odessa do not equal same crowds at a high school football game in Houston. I don't know much about high school football in south east Texas, so I won't comment. Perhaps someone who is local to Houston can add to this topic.


----------



## old school

JJG said:


> Apparently you missed the (?) in my post, but I kind of expected that from at least one person. _Official_ Association Football started just a couple centuries ago, yes, but I'm talking about the the true origins which, as someone has already pointed out can be traced all the way to Medieval days.
> 
> And I want to make this perfectly clear before any more "footy" fanboys/girls try to come at me with anything else like this: I ACTUALLY RESPECT THE SPORT. I know soccer is the most popular sport in the world and it's not refered to as "soccer" in most of the rest of the world... and I could care less. I also know that there are alot of soccer fans who just can't except the fact that there are other sports people prefer over soccer on this planet, let alone the States.
> 
> Ya see, not ALL Americans get upset about this sport's popularity around the world and I don't see ALL Americans getting upset that our sports aren't that popular everywhere else. In fact, I've yet to meet one.
> It ain't about popularity or something as small as you taking me seriously. It's all about preference and as you can see, the the World doesn't need America to be as in love with soccer as everyone else and America doesn't need to shove its sports around the globe (I personally want to slap Goodell for even suggesting having NFL in England).


:banana::banana::banana::banana:


----------



## massp88

MS20 said:


> Baseballs league has been up and running in Japan since 1950's. Soccer's J-League kicked off in 1992 or 93. Baseball is the country's national sport (well, for now anyway).
> 
> If you knew anything about Japanese sport, you'd know that it is soccer who has been very quickly catching up to baseball, not the other way around. Soccer has gone from being a non entity in Japan to being its outright second major team sport in the space of 20 years. And amongst youth, soccer is laying waste to baseball. Baseball will do well as long as the traditionalists who grew up on it live on, but there is only one sport really paving the way for a strong future.
> 
> Go ahead, consult any Japanese person and they'll relay what I just told you. Again, no other sport has done this.
> 
> I know Americans (who are primary fans of other sports) cant stand the fact that soccer is popular and that their sports haven't really done anything internationally, but don't let facts stand in the way of a feelgood story.
> 
> And JJG, when you come out with tripe like "soccers been around since 1200s" its kind of hard to take you seriously.


You seem to have a great deal of passion for football/soccer's ascension in regions outside of Europe and Latin America.

Soccer is actually the #1 participation sport in the United States. So it's easy for many people to follow, relate to and understand. Also, there are a TON of immigrants that live in the U.S. and will follow soccer. Although they are far more loyal to their native club team (which is why a Chelsea Bayern Munich match played in the U.S. would be a much larger draw than any of the top MLS teams), they will still support the local MLS club. 

I am not knocking MLS or soccer. I love soccer and watch it avidly (European clubs). But saying that the MLS came out of nowhere to gain in popularity is wrong. The MLS started up in one of the most populated countries where millions already played the sport and there is a massive population of soccer loving immigrants. This is not like say a start up ice hockey league in Costa Rica.


----------



## massp88

bd popeye said:


> Exactly!
> 
> 
> 
> On this point I'd disagree with you on from my point of view. As someone that is a sports fan in the USA I feel most sports fans in the US could care less if our sports are popular internationally. Most only care about US sports such as football, baseball, basketball and NASCAR.. NASCAR by the way is the second most watched sport on TV in the US. Second only to football.
> 
> Soccer and Ice Hockey as was pointed out are niche sports in the US.
> 
> Each one of us in where ever we live have our own culture. Thank God we all are not the same. That would be very boring!
> 
> One last thing basketball, from what I understand, is very popular internationally.
> 
> Soccer is not a sport I'm a fan of. However I am interested in soccer stadiums..which is what this thread is supposed to be about!


NASCAR has been losing its popularity a good amount over the last 4 or 5 years. TV ratings and attendance have been down. NASCAR has been trying to expand their sport to new cities with mixed results.

The NHL is not a niche sport in the U.S., nor is the MLS at this point. A Niche sport right now would be Lacrosse. The NHL has been around for decades and has millions of fans.


----------



## weava

massp88 said:


> Y
> Soccer is actually the #1 participation sport in the United States.


The most played sport in the US is basketball if you don't limit it to just those who play on official teams. Ive read somewhere before that skateboarding is the most played sport by US kids if you consider it a sport.


----------



## bd popeye

massp88 said:


> NASCAR has been losing its popularity a good amount over the last 4 or 5 years. TV ratings and attendance have been down. NASCAR has been trying to expand their sport to new cities with mixed results.
> 
> The NHL is not a niche sport in the U.S., nor is the MLS at this point. A Niche sport right now would be Lacrosse. The NHL has been around for decades and has millions of fans.


NASCAR has been slipping. But never the less it is still popular.

http://jayski.com/pages/tvratings2010.htm

In my whole life I've never met anyone that was a MLS fan. And only one person that was an NHL fan. I'm 57 years old and have been a sports fan since age 7.

While NHL ratings are on the Upswing MLS Tv ratings are well... read the links...

http://www.football-marketing.com/2010/11/23/tv-ratings-for-2010-mls-cup-final-drop-44/

http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/major-league-soccer-is-losing-the-tv-ratings-battle/9925


----------



## JJG

metros11 said:


> Texas High School programs perhaps, but Texas in itself is huge. Big crowds at a high school football game in Odessa do not equal same crowds at a high school football game in Houston. I don't know much about high school football in south east Texas, so I won't comment. Perhaps someone who is local to Houston can add to this topic.


I'm not really from Southeast Texas (eventhough I was born in Katy), but I spend half the year at least in this part of the state, so I can tell you that you'll see big crowds even with 3A. Just not all the time...

In Waller (about 35 miles NW of Houston) they just built a brand new stadium just for Waller High that's good enough for an FCS college.


----------



## Darloeye

Soccer was first played in medieval England But not with a ball more a dead humans head. I seem to watch more american sports like NFL,MLB and NHL not a big fan of the NBA or basketball has a whole because I had to play it at school. Liked playing field hockey but wish it was on ice and liked rounders which is what baseball grow out of and would rather play that sport than cricket. Watching the NFL was because I watched rugby has a kid and the NFL was alot better in my eyes


----------



## metros11

bd popeye said:


> In my whole life I've never met anyone that was a MLS fan. And only one person that was an NHL fan. I'm 57 years old and have been a sports fan since age 7.


Well, that may have something to do with the fact that Iowa does not have an MLS team, and the league has only been around since 1996.


----------



## Commandant

MS20 said:


> Name me one other sport that has gone into another country and been able to achieve that in the time the MLS has? Hell, what about after 50 years? And in such a competitive sports market? Oh? None? Yeah, thought so.


BASKETBALL IN CHINA

*An estimated 300 million to 400 million fans either play or watch the game regularly. "Basketball used to be behind soccer, but now it's pulling level," said Hu Jiashi, vice president of the China Basketball Association.

*Basketball courts can be found in villages and urban neighborhoods. Beijing sports official Yan Naxin has visited more than 100 villages around Beijing and had basketball courts installed in 2,300. Only 1,500 to go with another million or so around the country. Behind the project stands Zhang Dong, 49, an official at the Mass Sports Department of China's sports ministry. Political backing goes right to the top. "This is part of (Chinese President Hu Jintao's) New Socialist Countryside plan," Zhang said. An interesting fact, one of the first things one sees when entering the main courtyard of the Forbidden City is basketball courts...

*Basketball is the most popular school sport and the most popular sport among Chinese youth. It has caught in part because it is simple to play and requires little equipment.





*The Chinese University Basketball Association, was founded in 1996 and the league was launched in 1998. It is the most competitive and popular college basketball competition in China. This event is held annually and divided into the preliminary stage and the final stage, in which the national championship team is decided through a bracket style elimination tournament (like the NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Championship). Unlike other Chinese athletic organizations, CUBA is a privately funded organization with no affiliation with the Chinese government. The rules of CUBA grant eligibility only to amateur players.

There are some problems with the domestic league though:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/sports/basketball/23basketball.html


----------



## Anubis2051

metros11 said:


> Well, that may have something to do with the fact that Iowa does not have an MLS team, and the league has only been around since 1996.


I live in New Jersey and have never met an MLS fan either. Plenty of NHL fans though. I would say fandom in NJ goes MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA, and MLS is nowhere in sight.


----------



## Scba

Commandant said:


> "The NBA is a very cool sport," said college student and English major Huang Guodong, 22. "It's the fashion, the attitude and the power."


Not crazy about this.


----------



## Commandant

MS20 said:


> The fact that MLS is averaging 17,000 after 17 years is a testament to what soccer can be in the country. Soccer is doing just fine in the US.


I like soccer but the average attendance is not that impressive. Look at the NASL average attendance from 1976 to 1984 (these numbers are from http://homepages.sover.net/~spectrum/nasl/naslhist.html#ATTEND):

SEASON No.of games No. of teams *Attendance(avg.)*
1976 24 20 *10361*
1977 26 18 *13584*
1978 30 24 *13006*
1979 30 24 *14163*
1980 32 24 *14440*
1981 32 21 *14060*
1982 32 14 *13156*
1983 30 12 *13387*
1984 24 09 *10659*

MLS, a better run league, is only averaging 3,000-7,000 more fans...


----------



## bd popeye

> Well, that may have something to do with the fact that Iowa does not have an MLS team, and the league has only been around since 1996.


Excuse me.. I've mentioned many, many times that I lived in San Diego CA, not exactly a Hamlet, for 26 years. I also served in the USN for 20 years...I've met many different sports fans from all over the US.

Now regarding Soccer.. I met many a Mexican-American and Mexican that loved the Mexican league..But the NHL? One person.(I'm not refering to Mexican-Americans) That was a fellow truck driver nearly 20 years ago.


----------



## hngcm

Us Mexicans barely know what ice is. 

Give us Chivas USA though.


----------



## hngcm

Commandant said:


> I like soccer but the average attendance is not that impressive. Look at the NASL average attendance from 1976 to 1984 (these numbers are from http://homepages.sover.net/~spectrum/nasl/naslhist.html#ATTEND):
> 
> SEASON No.of games No. of teams *Attendance(avg.)*
> 1976 24 20 *10361*
> 1977 26 18 *13584*
> 1978 30 24 *13006*
> 1979 30 24 *14163*
> 1980 32 24 *14440*
> 1981 32 21 *14060*
> 1982 32 14 *13156*
> 1983 30 12 *13387*
> 1984 24 09 *10659*
> 
> MLS, a better run league, is only averaging 3,000-7,000 more fans...


Remove KC and San Jose and their 10,000 stadiums MLS averages 17,500 fans a game which is impressive imo.

That average will only rise when Portland and Vancouver start play this season, both PGE Park (22,000) and Empire Field (27,000) will be completely full.


----------



## SouthmoreAvenue

hngcm said:


> Remove KC and San Jose and their 10,000 stadiums MLS averages 17,500 fans a game which is impressive imo.
> 
> That average will only rise when Portland and Vancouver start play this season, both PGE Park (22,000) and Empire Field (27,000) will be completely full.


And then attendance will only rise even more because the 2012 season will be highlighted by the Dynamo's new stadium opening and Montreal joining the league as well.


----------



## Commandant

^^ The top 3 teams in attendance are not part of the MLS Originals (Toronto, Philadelphia, Seattle). The common rebuttal amongst long time league supporters is that once the novelty of being an expansion team or opening a new facility fades, attendance will drop (especially in Philadelphia). Five of the top eight teams in attendance during the 2010 season are from Garber's expansion/relocation efforts. His worse team is Chivas USA which is bettering six teams. MLS is doing the right thing by expanding into soccer hotbeds like Portland, Vancouver, and Seattle, plus putting teams like Toronto and Houston in downtown facilities (or at least stadiums within city limits) will increase fan support, but average attendance for professional American soccer has only slightly improved since the NASL days, which disappoints me. I think the league could do much better.


----------



## GunnerJacket

carnifex2005 said:


> Yes. MLS in Portland will make far more money than AAA baseball ever did.


This may take some time, but the potential is there. As much as MLS is struggling with TV ratings and national respect, MLS scores at least register on the ESPN ticker and the league is showing tremendous potential. It could someday achieve a true status alongside hockey as part of the Big 5 in US sporting culture. (Still faaar behind the top 3, but no longer considered a minor league.) This would likely make it more appealing to corporate sponsors, especially since the game structure and schedule makes for match days to be more of an event, a la football. Baseball's near non-stop play can reduce the value of a single game to almost hobby-like level. (Or pasttime, to be more appropriate.) 

Bottom line, a routinely packed venue for 20+ games will resonate more with sponsors than a sparsely packed stadium for 40+ games.


----------



## nyrmetros

hopefully....


----------



## derzberb

so, i heard the Cosmos New York team will come back?

:applause:

just for the name, they got at least one supporter from overseas (which is me)


----------



## metros11

derzberb said:


> so, i heard the Cosmos New York team will come back?


That's yet to be determined.


----------



## sbutlik

Multnomah Stadium (PGE Park) 1956


----------



## TataMuminka

derzberb said:


> so, i heard the Cosmos New York team will come back?
> 
> :applause:
> 
> just for the name, they got at least one supporter from overseas (which is me)


It seems that the Cosmos can be the only American soccer club that is/can be liked for its history. That's a very European thing


----------



## matthemod

TataMuminka said:


> It seems that the Cosmos can be the only American soccer club that is/can be liked for its history. That's a very European thing


Perhaps they are the most well known, but the Portland Timbers, the Vancouver Whitecaps, Seattle Sounders and the San Jose Earthquakes were all members of the NASL with the Cosmo's, who have since become members of the MLS.


----------



## Lupin III

Actually Houston Dynamo and FC Dallas also has some pre MLS heritage.


----------



## metros11

Lupin III said:


> Actually Houston Dynamo and FC Dallas also has some pre MLS heritage.


Tell me more, because I believe you're a bit 'confused' about the topic in hand.


----------



## Lupin III

metros11 said:


> Tell me more, because I believe you're a bit 'confused' about the topic in hand.


OK am I? Because I believe there was a Houston Dynamo team existing between 1983 to 1991. First playing in United soccer league then as independent in Lone star soccer alliance. The club changed name in 1990 to Houston International

Also there was an club starting in 1984 playing in Lone Starsoccer alliance too called FC Dallas.


----------



## mattec

Lupin III said:


> OK am I? Because I believe there was a Houston Dynamo team existing between 1983 to 1991. First playing in United soccer league then as independent in Lone star soccer alliance. The club changed name in 1990 to Houston International
> 
> Also there was an club starting in 1984 playing in Lone Starsoccer alliance too called FC Dallas.


If you want to get technical, Houston is the original San Jose team..........


----------



## BoulderGrad

mattec said:


> If you want to get technical, Houston is the original San Jose team..........


Who were named after the original NASL team.


----------



## vanbasten88

sbutlik said:


> Multnomah Stadium (PGE Park) 1956



Has anyone taken a picture from that same angle now that the redevelopment into a SSS is mostly complete? 
Being a Soccer fan, I much prefer the new look than the old look. It looks tight and intimate. The fans will be right on top of the players, in their ears, should create a cracking atmosphere! 
:banana::banana:


----------



## krudmonk

mattec said:


> If you want to get technical, Houston is the original San Jose team..........


The Houston Dynamo do not trace their lineage back to San Jose, as the current San Jose Earthquakes do.


----------



## metros11

Lupin III said:


> OK am I? Because I believe there was a Houston Dynamo team existing between 1983 to 1991. First playing in United soccer league then as independent in Lone star soccer alliance. The club changed name in 1990 to Houston International
> 
> Also there was an club starting in 1984 playing in Lone Starsoccer alliance too called FC Dallas.


I see. Obviously I'm aware of USL, do you know what level the Dynamo played in? And what exactly is (or was) the Lone Star Soccer Alliance?


----------



## SJAnfield

The Earthquakes began to demolish the buildings on the site of the future stadium today. Not a groundbreaking, but a start, and a very good feeling for those of us who have been waiting for some sort of permanent home for the club for the last 15 years.

http://www.sjearthquakes.com/news/2011/03/stadium-progress-quakes-begin-demolition-fmc-factory
http://www.sjearthquakes.com/content/demolition-day-0


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## metros11

KC stadium got a name.

http://www.livestrongsportingpark.com/


----------



## slipperydog

Montreal opening March 2012



















http://www.impactmontreal.com/News/News.aspx?language=EN&ArticleID=1567


----------



## krudmonk

That looks like a fine stadium that's light on materials. Gives me hope for the eventual Quakes's home.


----------



## DiscoZimpy

There's no news about a stadium unfortunately, but there are rumours that with the announcement of the new "Beckham Rule", Luis Figo might go to New York or the Revolution.


----------



## massp88

DiscoZimpy said:


> There's no news about a stadium unfortunately, but there are rumours that with the announcement of the new "Beckham Rule", Luis Figo might go to New York or the Revolution.


Figo would be a fine fit in New England with their massive Portuguese population. 


I have always thought it would be nice if the MLS has a European style relegation system. For those that are unfamiliar, at the end of the season, the bottom 3 teams in the Premier League are demoted down to the Championship and the top 3 teams from the Championship are moved up to the Premier League.

So based on last season, Philadelphia, Chivas and D.C. would have been demoted. 

That way the league would not have to expand too large, I think 22 teams max is ideal, and they could get clubs in every major city.


----------



## slipperydog

massp88 said:


> I have always thought it would be nice if the MLS has a European style relegation system. For those that are unfamiliar, at the end of the season, the bottom 3 teams in the Premier League are demoted down to the Championship and the top 3 teams from the Championship are moved up to the Premier League.


That wouldn't work in MLS for countless reasons.


----------



## warpus

slipperydog said:


> That wouldn't work in MLS for countless reasons.


It could work *eventually* once the league is big enough to split off into MLS-Premier and MLS-2 (or whatever)


----------



## krudmonk

Please no Phoenix, Atlanta or Miami.


----------



## massp88

slipperydog said:


> That wouldn't work in MLS for countless reasons.


Such as? The MLS will be stupid to expand beyond 20-22 teams. Having a second tier league would allow them to have clubs in cities where they currently don't have a franchise. That way they don't expand to too many teams and completely dilute the product. 

Having more than one tier would go a long way to expanding the domestic soccer league and make things like the U.S. Open Cup even better. 

The following cities could be added to round out MLS Tier 1 and MLS Tier 2

San Diego
Detroit
Atlanta
Charlotte
Miami
Orlando
St. Louis
Ottawa
Minneapolis
Phoenix
New York #2
Austin or San Antonio
Nashville or Memphis
Pittsburgh
Indianapolis
Cleveland
New Orleans
Milwaukee

I don't know if you watch English soccer, but having a relegation to a lower league gives the bottom teams something to really play for at the end of the season and those matches usually are quite exciting.


----------



## GunnerJacket

The concept of pro/rel has been debated ad nauseum on BigSoccer, with the majority realizing that a near consensus of US owners won't back a system whereby they could have their franchise demoted, and thus earn less money. It's not a matter of league size of logistics but rather that the people who've invested in the MLS model expect to someday reap a return, preferably one that is more fixed.

US sports fans have a difficulty perceiving a world in which the LA Lakers, or Miami Dolphins or St Louis Cardinals could be demoted to a lower league, and MLS is aspiring to draw those same fans. It's tough enough to get 18k out for a regular league game in some cities, so the idea that you'll continue to draw those same fans after being relegated is a non-starter. Neither do TV sponsors want leagues with the likes of Rochester and Charleston replacing, say, DC and Dallas.

To save space I suggest cutting off the debate on that topic here and track down one of the threads on BS. It's possible in the States, but highly, highly unlikely within our lifetime.


----------



## GunnerJacket

massp88 said:


> ... having a relegation to a lower league gives the bottom teams something to really play for at the end of the season and those matches usually are quite exciting.


It also creates a financial yo-yo the clubs have come to loathe for financial planning purposes, one that those leagues are looking to resolve and MLS is hoping to avoid.

Older nations have evolved with pro/rel as a means of accommodating the volumes of clubs that once all began at the same level. The States have never had that issue, as entry into pro sports has been simply a matter of buying in. Even in the early days of baseball they began with established tiers knowing some teams could not compete with the highest spenders.

Lastly, the US sports market is more cluttered with variety of options and clouded with the collegiate programs, making league and team investors all the more wary about any system that enables their product to be devalued.

Again, it's not impossible but it's simply asking the financial backers to accept greater risks, and you can imagine how that would go over.


----------



## GunnerJacket

krudmonk said:


> Please no Phoenix, Atlanta or Miami.


The power of the _interweb_ stikes again.


----------



## massp88

GunnerJacket said:


> It also creates a financial yo-yo the clubs have come to loathe for financial planning purposes, one that those leagues are looking to resolve and MLS is hoping to avoid.
> 
> Older nations have evolved with pro/rel as a means of accommodating the volumes of clubs that once all began at the same level. The States have never had that issue, as entry into pro sports has been simply a matter of buying in. Even in the early days of baseball they began with established tiers knowing some teams could not compete with the highest spenders.
> 
> Lastly, the US sports market is more cluttered with variety of options and clouded with the collegiate programs, making league and team investors all the more wary about any system that enables their product to be devalued.
> 
> Again, it's not impossible but it's simply asking the financial backers to accept greater risks, and you can imagine how that would go over.


You make very good and valid points. Owners or potential owners would be wary about relegation for financial reasons.

My thinking was that the MLS cannot expand to all of the markets it should be in without expanding too fast, or taking too long to get teams in there.

Having a second tier would allow them to have clubs in all the needed cities, under the MLS umbrella and also make late season games for teams that are clear out of the playoff picture actually worth something and get more fans into the stands.


----------



## GunnerJacket

massp88 said:


> My thinking was that the MLS cannot expand to all of the markets it should be in without expanding too fast, or taking too long to get teams in there.


Alas this line of thinking is subjective, and as we've seen even here on SSC there's little consensus on where MLS "should" be. What's important is that the league has made strides in maximizing their presence and financial return where they do have teams, meaning they're perfecting their model. This is the necessary first step, and represents arguably the first time the sport has established a lasting presence in the US. (At the least, a more stable and growing league compared to NASL's 17 seasons.) The recent additions of Portland et al were absorbed mostly because they were more established products with solid backing, as opposed to MLS openly searching for random expansion candidates.

Ensure viability and profitability of existing league and teams, then worry about expansion later. 



> Having a second tier would allow them to have clubs in all the needed cities, under the MLS umbrella and also make late season games for teams that are clear out of the playoff picture actually worth something and get more fans into the stands.


If the existing clubs within USL and elsehwere don't find a model that works for them, then you can expect MLS to sponsor some type lower tier or developmental league. For now relations between the factions aren't as cooperative as us fans would prefer, but even MLS owners know it's in their interest to see decent franchises like Rochester and Charleston find a home if possible. High turnover among teams has damaged the sport's respect in the US well enough, and even MLS appreciates the investment these and other teams have made in venues and community outreach.



















Bottom line, MLS is not so viable a product that anyone will seriously consider changing the model for some time. So until then expansion will depend on mostly prospective owners and their financing while lower tier teams will be packaged within the USL or elsewhere.

One man's opine.

- - - - - 

Would we like to see all the MLS venues re-presented here, or would that be overkill?


----------



## metros11

koolio said:


> Exactly ... especially considering how the first one has yet to prove a success in the stands even with the new state of the art stadium. I think the next expansion team should either be in the Southeast or the Midwest.


As a Red Bulls fan from NJ I can tell you that another team east of Manhattan would make sense. Majority of the team's fans are from New Jersey. A stadium and a team in Queens would not hurt the Red Bulls, but would benefit MLS.


GunnerJacket said:


> The concept of pro/rel has been debated ad nauseum on BigSoccer, with the majority realizing that a near consensus of US owners won't back a system whereby they could have their franchise demoted, and thus earn less money. It's not a matter of league size of logistics but rather that the people who've invested in the MLS model expect to someday reap a return, preferably one that is more fixed.


I'm not sure why people find this concept so hard to grasp.


----------



## Archbishop

With the other cities Garber named for #20, we might as well hope for NY2. I don't have a strong feeling about any of those other ones. I would love it if the Glazers quit being asses and brought back the Rowdies to the top division, but I doubt it. The Glazers suck. 24 will end up being the perfect number for MLS.


----------



## krudmonk

GunnerJacket said:


> The power of the _interweb_ stikes again.


I used to give them all the benefit of the doubt but the collective apathy across various sports is just not what a building league needs. Maybe I'm being a bit hard of Phoenix for the whole Coyotes ordeal, but I'm pretty much done trying to rationalize weak support in the other two.

And I am *NOT* saying to avoid Florida or the south in general, but no sense in jamming MLS into markets where bigger and more established leagues are floundering. I'd love for every place to be nuts for MLS but I'm not dealing in fantasies.

Give me Tampa Bay (as the Rowdies) and Nashville instead.


----------



## massp88

When is New England going to get a SSS?


----------



## carnifex2005

sbutlik said:


> pge renderings


PGE's name has been changed today to Jeld-Wen Field. No details on how much it cost but PGE's deal was worth $10 million when purchased in 2000.


----------



## MS20

massp88 said:


> When is New England going to get a SSS?


New England = owned by Kraft, who owns NE NFL team and a stadium = NE Revolution will never get an SSS. 

Lesson to be learned: Don't go into bed with NFL owners who already have oversized stadia, as the football team will have to play in it.


----------



## vanbasten88

MS20 said:


> New England = owned by Kraft, who owns NE NFL team and a stadium = NE Revolution will never get an SSS.
> 
> Lesson to be learned: Don't go into bed with NFL owners who already have oversized stadia, as the football team will have to play in it.


Unless you're the Sounders, because then the big stadium = win


----------



## BoulderGrad

carnifex2005 said:


> PGE's name has been changed today to Jeld-Wen Field. No details on how much it cost but PGE's deal was worth $10 million when purchased in 2000.


I guess its just as local a sponsorship deal as PGE, but 'PGE Park' had a nice ring to it that Jeld-Wen Field just lacks. So what kind of free giveaways are they planning? Free windows if the timbers score 5 goals?


----------



## Darloeye

^^^^ the team has to break a window before kick-off. Its got to be one of the worse names of a stadium ever.


----------



## bd popeye

JYDA said:


> No that is not the reason. The reasoning is that these suburban municipalities have been willing to help foot the bill to build the stadiums. Commerce City Colorado, Sandy Utah, Chester PA, Frisco TX, Harrison NJ, Bridgeview Illinois.


Thanks for that correction. I was unaware of MSL stadium financing..


----------



## massp88

The first MLS matches were played in 1996, Chad would have been 18.

Did anyone see the pics or videos of when he went over to Madrid to visit with Real Madrid?


----------



## rantanamo

KingNick said:


> He also lacks tactical skills, since he started playing american football at the age other kids are trained tactics. That is something you can't learn within a couple of weeks and makes the biggest difference between pro and am football. He'd most likely wander around like a retarded chicken.


He's not going to make it. No different than Michael Jordan trying to make the White Sox. But, I think many are missing the fact that Chad grew up playing soccer and played through high school and was apparently a high level player. Also, for years in interviews he's said he loves soccer and watches soccer and it was always his favorite to play. 

Don't get why people think shape is the issue. You simply can't play any non-line position in the NFL and not be in incredible shape. Yes, its a different kind of shape, but many like to exaggerate as if the contact in the NFL wouldn't tire anyone or as if soccer players don't look tired after a good run or 2. I've got hours of EPL and Champions League on the DVR that says otherwise. He's a human and he's a high level athlete just like they are. Skill, age and time away will be why he won't make it.










had to add that I read some mention that this will show the top athletes in the US would make no difference. I think that's absolutely the wrong point about the best athletes making a difference. When one speaks of the lack of athletes playing for the US, they don't mean Dwayne Wade could step on the pitch and dominate right now. They mean, at age 5, age 8, age 10, soccer leagues aren't even picking from the whole field of athletes. Even then, many of these kids are out of soccer by 12 or 13. There's never even a shot at seeing if you can develop some of the prime athletes into skilled players the way basketball and football do in the US. Of course a pro athlete isn't just going to switch sports after 15 years away.


----------



## Darloeye

He could still be signed. just to help bring more fans into the sport and sell more shirts. would love to see top level sports stars trying to play other sports like david beckham playing ice hockey wayne gretzky playing baseball and so on......


----------



## slipperydog

Exactly. Why the hell not? It's entertaining. Would I watch a random NHL game? Probably not. But if Gerard Pique suddenly decided to become a left winger for the Phoenix Coyotes, I would contemplate missing my daughter's graduation to see that.


----------



## JYDA

I'm interested to see how good he is. I knew he was an elite player in his youth but I've never actually seen him play.


----------



## GunnerJacket

The added attention may be nice, but if I'm a fan, player or coach for Sporting I'd be more concerned about winning than a few extra hundred jersey sales. Maybe that's just me, though, as the US populace does worship it's celebraties.


----------



## Darloeye

He *was* a good player in this young. Sure the NFL hits have taken their toll on his body and speed with the soccer ball


----------



## RaiderATO

GunnerJacket said:


> The added attention may be nice, but if I'm a fan, player or coach for Sporting I'd be more concerned about winning than a few extra hundred jersey sales. Maybe that's just me, though, as the US populace does worship it's celebraties.


I'm not a KC fan, or even an MLS or soccer fan. I might tune in to see how he fares. Imagine the KC natives that might actually GO to the game because of him. You can't add fans until you get them in the building.


----------



## carnifex2005

Here's a new night shot of Jen-Weld Field to cleanse the pallet of all this Ochocinco talk...


----------



## slipperydog

And for good measure


----------



## hngcm

When's the first game at JDub Field?


----------



## vanbasten88

That is one sweet looking SSS! WD Portland! :cheers::cheers:


----------



## ryebreadraz

hngcm said:


> When's the first game at JDub Field?


April 14. It'll be on ESPN2.


----------



## vanbasten88

ryebreadraz said:


> April 14. It'll be on ESPN2.


Hope they show it on ESPN2Oz its off season here in Australia, I need my football fix.


----------



## massp88

vanbasten88 said:


> Hope they show it on ESPN2Oz its off season here in Australia, I need my football fix.


Do any of the regular channels (not a premium channel) show European leagues?


----------



## vanbasten88

massp88 said:


> Do any of the regular channels (not a premium channel) show European leagues?


They do at odd hours, but with the odd affinity/similarity between the A-Leagues travails and MLS's ability to show how to succeed in a hostile sports environment, bizarrely I find myself choosing to watch MLS on tape delay at 3pm over some Euro football at 2am


----------



## eMKay

carnifex2005 said:


> Here's a new night shot of Jen-Weld Field to cleanse the pallet of all this Ochocinco talk...


WOW! That's good progress. Looks awesome.


----------



## Otto Racecar

I just found it slightly amusing that you are complimenting portlands predominately roofed stadium and then have No, it would not be better with a roof as your slogan.
I completely understand the reasoning for it as I'm very familiar with the numerous debates, just found it humerous!


----------



## JJG

Otto Racecar said:


> I just found it slightly amusing that you are complimenting portlands predominately roofed stadium and then have No, it would not be better with a roof as your slogan.
> I completely understand the reasoning for it as I'm very familiar with the numerous debates, just found it humerous!


To be fair, alot of the roofing was already there:










Still doesn't NEED a roof, though....


----------



## kerouac1848

> Bristol Rovers used to "Black Arabs FC" for example.


I always liked the name Black Arabs. Better than Bristol Rovers.

It's all about balance I guess. Sounders, Union and Whitecaps sound fine to me. Using City or FC is cool and 'Sporting' can look alright depending upon the other name (e.g. Sporting Chivas doesn't seem bad to me, but Sporting New York....). Dynamo is awful whilst Real is just embarrassing given the context. Not sure about United. Athletic could work.



> Or at least that's what people reading the press here would be lead to believe. For some reason journalist here seem unwilling to accept MLS isn't the NASL circa 1983.


Brits are just snobby about many things across the Atlantic (no less so than the French) and anti-Americanism is common, albeit in a mostly mild form. Liverpool and Man Utd fans often burnt US flags as part of their protests against the ownership of the clubs and there is no doubt that the owners being American increased supporter hostility. There are large numbers of people here who are incredibly insular as well.


----------



## Rev Stickleback

kerouac1848 said:


> Brits are just snobby about many things across the Atlantic (no less so than the French) and anti-Americanism is common, albeit in a mostly mild form. Liverpool and Man Utd fans often burnt US flags as part of their protests against the ownership of the clubs and there is no doubt that the owners being American increased supporter hostility. There are large numbers of people here who are incredibly insular as well.


That's certainly partly true (flag burnings were not a regular thing at all, for example, and the protests were certainly against the owners, not America as a whole) but sports journalists here are incredibly ignorant of the world outside their premiership bubble. Being "opinionated" is seen as much more important than being knowledgeable. The BBC will happily provide "expert summarisers" in the build up to a world cup match who openly admit to knowing nothing about the teams taking part, and won't find that even slightly embarrassing. Who is supposed to know about Iran, after all?


Anyway, steering swiftly back on topic....some old school stadiums from a decade ago. The old Soldier Field, and Frontier Field, Rochester.


----------



## ArnageWRC

Rev Stickleback said:


> That's certainly partly true (flag burnings were not a regular thing at all, for example, and the protests were certainly against the owners, not America as a whole) but sports journalists here are incredibly ignorant of the world outside their premiership bubble. Being "opinionated" is seen as much more important than being knowledgeable. The BBC will happily provide "expert summarisers" in the build up to a world cup match who openly admit to knowing nothing about the teams taking part, and won't find that even slightly embarrassing. Who is supposed to know about Iran, after all?


Yeah, completely agree, we accuse the US of being parochial and insular, yet time after time the majority of sports journos (mainly football/soccer)prove themselves no better. Haven't they heard of research? Football gets away with it because it's the No1 sport - and very little effort is made. The other sports are a lot better, cricket/Rugby in particularly.


----------



## kerouac1848

> That's certainly partly true (flag burnings were not a regular thing at all, for example, and the protests were certainly against the owners, not America as a whole) but sports journalists here are incredibly ignorant of the world outside their premiership bubble. Being "opinionated" is seen as much more important than being knowledgeable. The BBC will happily provide "expert summarisers" in the build up to a world cup match who openly admit to knowing nothing about the teams taking part, and won't find that even slightly embarrassing. Who is supposed to know about Iran, after all?


I know they weren't regular, but it's the fact it happened and was even considered kind of acceptable (or at least no big deal was made). You're right about sports journalists - especially in broadcast media - but this goes beyond sport: there is often a degree of snobbery when it comes to talking about US culture elements, such as TV, comedy, food, sport etc. It's part of a paradoxical inferiority/superiority complex.


----------



## KingNick

I really liked the old Soldier Field. Even though it looks like a typical american stadium it still seems to be ideal for football as well.


----------



## Rev Stickleback

kerouac1848 said:


> I know they weren't regular, but it's the fact it happened and was even considered kind of acceptable (or at least no big deal was made).


Mainly it was just regarded as pathetic, but there isn't anywhere near the same symbolism attached to a flag that there is in the US, or many other countries.



> You're right about sports journalists - especially in broadcast media - but this goes beyond sport: there is often a degree of snobbery when it comes to talking about US culture elements, such as TV, comedy, food, sport etc. It's part of a paradoxical inferiority/superiority complex.


Again, that's true. I think journalists like the idea of MLS being crap. The tinkering and "improvement to the game" of the NASL also made it an unpopular league here, which didn't help, so there was a distinct pleasure in its failures.

But football journalists/presenters are exceptionally bad. It was Iran v Mexico in 2006 that I remember in particular, with the BBC team opening the coverage pretty much ridiculing the idea that anyone was interested in the match. The BBC also seems convinced during the coverage of the African Cup of Nations that being a black ex-footballer will make you an expert on African football, even if you grew up in Stoke or Sheffield.


----------



## metros11

SJAnfield said:


> This Red Bull thing, it doesn't really bother me at all. I notice Bayer Leverkusen is never brought up in these discussions. They have been owned, operated and named after Bayer for over 100 years. The Bayer corporate logo is even incorporated into the crest like New York's. Red bull pays the bills, let them name it whatever the hell they want. *If you love the beautiful game in the New York/New Jersey region, enjoy the game and ignore the mascot.*


:applause:

As for Bayer Leverkusen, that started out as an amateur club comprised of Bayer workers. Can't really compare to what Red Bull is doing.



GunnerJacket said:


> The stadium effort was begun before RB came on board, and it's safe to say they bought the team in part because that hard work had already been accomplished. Yes, they invested some of their own money, but the rest of the image your presenting just tells me they're investing for the sake of their brand, not out of an affinity for the community.


It's true that the stadium was in the plans before the takeover, in fact it was in the plans for 6 years prior to the sale of the club, and then an additional 3 years thereafter while AEG was still involved with the stadium plans. Bottom line is, the shovels didn't hit the ground until Reb Bull bought out the stadium rights from AEG, scrapped their plan to have a stage built in, and completely redesigned the Arena to what it is today. Then paid $200M to have the thing built. Us New York fans often still discuss whether the stadium would be built under AEG ownership. Oh, and as additional piece of information, during the time of sale there were also rumors that Red Bull were thinking about staying at Giants Stadium and scrapping the idea of a SSS altogether because they believed they could be successful there. That all changed after the 2006 home opener.

I have to agree though, Red Bull's ultimate goal is to sell more cans. The best MLS stadium and a successful team is just a means to that goal.


kerouac1848 said:


> Dynamo is awful whilst Real is just embarrassing given the context. Not sure about United. Athletic could work.


Houston is not named after Dynamo Kyiv or Dinamo Zagreb, they're named Dynamo because of the city's history in energy production. DC United may sound like a euro copy, but they're United because DC is the capital of United States of America (if you believe Kevin Payne). Athletic won't work because of the Oakland A's.


----------



## JJG

One thing I'll say about the Houston Dynamo.... originally, they were to be known as this:


----------



## Darloeye

^^^^ Thats a better name than Dynamo. Shame they could not use it.


----------



## JYDA

Then the Mexicans complained about it.


----------



## Darloeye

JYDA said:


> Then the Mexicans complained about it.


Mexicans in American or Mexicans in Mexico ?


----------



## kerouac1848

> Houston is not named after Dynamo Kyiv or Dinamo Zagreb, they're named Dynamo because of the city's history in energy production.


It's still a lame name regardless IMHO. It just sounds wrong.



> Athletic won't work because of the Oakland A's.


So you can't have one section of a name more than once? Is there not more than one 'Giants' or 'Rangers' or 'Kings' in US pro-sport?


----------



## JJG

Darloeye said:


> Mexicans in American or Mexicans in Mexico ?


Mexican Americans living in Houston.

They bowed down to what we Americans call "The PC Police".... Also, that's a better logo (or should I say, Badge) than what they have now IMO.


----------



## Darloeye

JJG said:


> Mexican Americans living in Houston.
> 
> They bowed down to what we Americans call "The PC Police".... Also, that's a better logo (or should I say, Badge) than what they have now IMO.


Grrrr Starting to hate all the PC/BS Yeah its alot better Badge/Logo.


----------



## koolio

Aside from bowing down to the PC police, I would say they clearly made a good business decision considering the Mexican population in the region. They could not have afforded to potentially marginalize such a significant market right off the gate.


----------



## mattec

JJG said:


> Mexican Americans living in Houston.
> 
> They bowed down to what we Americans call "The PC Police".... Also, that's a better logo (or should I say, Badge) than what they have now IMO.


gee whizz, I don't know why they'd be offended. Its not like they're actually Mexican if they live in Houston... They should be American first and Mexican a distant second. If they don't like it that way, they can go back...

jmo


----------



## JYDA

At the end of the day it's a business and alienating a lucrative demographic is a dumb business decision regardless of whether that demographic is justified in their sensitivity. They could hold the line and tell the hispanic community they're wrong and try to force them to accept it, but you can't force them to buy a ticket.


----------



## matthemod

So I may be completely and utterly oblivious....but why was that logo bad/un pc? I must be missing something.


----------



## bigbossman

matthemod said:


> So I may be completely and utterly oblivious....but why was that logo bad/un pc? I must be missing something.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_War_of_Independence


----------



## Rev Stickleback

metros11;75065751Houston is not named after Dynamo Kyiv or Dinamo Zagreb said:


> United[/U] States of America (if you believe Kevin Payne). Athletic won't work because of the Oakland A's.


...and Sunderland's Stadium of Light was named to honour the tradition of the miners who worked in the mine below where the ground sits wearing lamps on their helmets, and had nothing to do with another famous stadium having that name.


Sorry, but anyone who believes those names were not copies with a thin veneer of principles attached, must be the dictionary definition of gullible (although oddly gullible isn't in most dictionaries. check if you don't believe me)


----------



## Darloeye

Rev Stickleback said:


> ...and Sunderland's Stadium of Light was named to honour the tradition of the miners who worked in the mine below where the ground sits wearing lamps on their helmets, and had nothing to do with another famous stadium having that name.
> 
> 
> Sorry, but anyone who believes those names were not copies with a thin veneer of principles attached, must be the dictionary definition of gullible (although oddly gullible isn't in most dictionaries. check if you don't believe me)


Sunderlands stadium of shite was named to bring a new hope to the city and the area. Yes it was built upon an old miner but it was not named after that other stadium of light. afterall their are two St James' Parks


----------



## JJG

Though alot of people hate the 'Dynamo' choice, it was a smart choice. Houston (the entire state of Texas, really) has a very large Mexican population. What makes it offensive is the fact that they're reminded every day that Texas was taken from Mexico in a very not so civil way. 

I would equate it to Confederate flags/Rebel mascots and the American Civil War, but I think it's a little deeper than that for this group.

For most non-Hispanic Texans, they see '1836' and see it as a year of independence and the year where it all began for Texas to become what it is today.
For many Texans and even non-Texans of Mexican decent, they see '1836' as the year part of their mother country was taken away from them. 

From ME, it's not disrespect to Mexicans when I say that 'Houston 1836' is a better name (seriously, it is), but I can't make those decisions even if I was head of Houston's club, nor can I tell anyone how to feel about it. I just know how I feel about it and will stick with that.


----------



## Rev Stickleback

Darloeye said:


> Sunderlands stadium of shite was named to bring a new hope to the city and the area. Yes it was built upon an old miner but it was not named after that other stadium of light. afterall their are two St James' Parks


It wasn't named after Benfica's ground, but you'd need to be incredibly trusting to believe they came up with an indentical name through pure coincidence.

Likewise, the relationship between a dynamo and the industrial power industry isn't the first thing that springs to mind. Football clubs named Dynamo are rather more obvious. Similarly, I'm not really a betting man, but the odds of the creators of the name DC United _not_ being "influenced" by the existence of the popular footballing suffix must be rather long.


And I think you'd find the two St James' Parks are just named after areas of open space in which they played, i.e. the name predates the football clubs.


----------



## SIC

matthemod said:


> So I may be completely and utterly oblivious....but why was that logo bad/un pc? I must be missing something.


Imagine a team in Northern Ireland with the name "Belfast 1919", or whatever the specific year Ireland was partitioned. While it isn't the same political/social situation at all, it would alienate a significant segment of the population in a similar way. edit: I came up with an even better example for Americans, an MLS re-location team proposed "Atlanta Union 1865" or even just "Atlanta Fire", would that fly? No sir!

In Houston, the Mexican-American population is a key demographic for any business, let alone a soccer team. Because even though most "Texicans/tejanos" are proud Americans ...but they all realize they suffered 2nd class status in what was one and still is their homeland until Civil rights and to some extent they are still forced to justify their "alien" status (In this thread even) in a place they have lived for hundreds of years. Way Before Texas was ever part of the United States and in some old-time families, way before the United States even existed.
A lot of Mexicans fought alongside their white/Anglo(short for anglophone) neighbors (who were invited to settle there by Mexico and given full Mexican citizenship) for independence from Mexico. Without them, the Texans would have never won their independence, but their neighbors turned around and disenfranchised them. They were not allowed to vote, They nullified their property rights and titles from the Spanish crown. They turned the Texas rangers into a gang to bully and lynch Mexicans who fought to retain their property and rights. Texas was built on something similar to what we call ethnic-cleansing, much like most of American and Native Americans (Although to be fair, all countries were founded on ethnic cleansing of some sort, it's just that nowadays that sh** don't fly anymore). Oh, and enacting slavery was one of the major reasons settlers wanted independence, Mexico banned it at the unlike the US. So theres also that, but ironically Texas joining the union and the rest of former mexican territory was one of the pre-cursors of the civil war.

So yeah, if it's Political correctness gone mad to bring this up and educate people and overturn a hundred years of revisionist history. Then call me a pc-gone mad hippie :bash: I prefer the term "edumacated". :lol:
So when people ask "why don't Mexican-Americans in Texas look fondly on its founding, aren't they PROUD Americans?" The answer is yes, they are proud to be Americans...proud Americans who acknowledged reality and accuracy in history. It doesn't mean they hate America, just ignorance.

I think they felt as the name was to heavily loaded with meaning to bother with it. It's just too sensitive a topic and too loaded a term. It's too "American FU** YEAH" and that would alienated the Mexican base. Which is important, since Monterrey and Mexican 1st division soccer is only a couple of hours away.


----------



## matthemod

I should have remembered this...considering I studied American History at Uni! For some reason I was thinking it came solely from the German-esque tradition of putting the year the team was founded (instead of course using the founding of the city, that arose from the war).


----------



## mattec

SIC said:


> A lot of Mexicans fought alongside their white/Anglo(short for anglophone) neighbors (who were invited to settle there by Mexico and given full Mexican citizenship) for independence from Mexico. Without them, the Texans would have never won their independence, but their neighbors turned around and disenfranchised them. ... Oh, and enacting slavery was one of the major reasons settlers wanted independence, Mexico banned it at the unlike the US.


Although this is totally OT, it should be mentioned that Mexico was in a semi disintegrating state and there were several other regions vying for independence. The Yucatan region comes to mind here...


----------



## koolio

Hopefully one day Mexico can claim those lost territories back and move past this bitterness.


----------



## metros11

kerouac1848 said:


> So you can't have one section of a name more than once? Is there not more than one 'Giants' or 'Rangers' or 'Kings' in US pro-sport?


We live in a much different world today rather when those teams formed. Athletics for Philly and Olympique for Montreal would be off the table due to trademark issues.


----------



## metros11

Rev Stickleback said:


> Sorry, but anyone who believes those names were not copies with a thin veneer of principles attached, must be the dictionary definition of gullible (although oddly gullible isn't in most dictionaries. check if you don't believe me)


In DC's case undoubtedly yes, in Houston's case not so much.


----------



## metros11

Rev Stickleback said:


> Likewise, the relationship between a dynamo and the industrial power industry isn't the first thing that springs to mind.


A dynamo or simply 'Dynamo' as in the team?


----------



## metros11

matthemod said:


> For some reason I was thinking it came solely from the German-esque tradition of putting the year the team was founded.


Where the date came from is obvious, but you're correct in your assumption as to where they got the idea.


----------



## metros11

koolio said:


> Hopefully one day Mexico can claim those lost territories back and move past this bitterness.


Considering the Mexican population in the bordering states they're on their way to doing so.


----------



## BoulderGrad

So new Houston Stadium webcams? News from the San Jose site demolition? News on site selection for New England and DC?


----------



## SJAnfield

BoulderGrad said:


> So new Houston Stadium webcams? News from the San Jose site demolition? News on site selection for New England and DC?


San Jose demolition chugging right along. One building down, several more to go. Its going to take 14 weeks because they are recycling all the materials. The new Prez still thinks shovels will be in the ground later this season.


----------



## rantanamo

koolio said:


> Hopefully one day Mexico can claim those lost territories back and move past this bitterness.


So you are for the Southwest United States going back to Mexico?


----------



## BoulderGrad

rantanamo said:


> So you are for the Southwest United States going back to Mexico?


I'm for this thread going back to talk of stadiums. Horse has been dead for a day or two


----------



## Commandant

^^ I agree...

Renderings of the new Estadio Sevilla FC in Juncos, Puerto Rico


----------



## SJAnfield

Commandant said:


> ^^ I agree...
> 
> Renderings of the new Estadio Sevilla FC in Juncos, Puerto Rico


Wow!

The United States second division(s) have really been stepping up their game!


----------



## carnifex2005

SJAnfield said:


> Wow!
> 
> The United States second division(s) have really been stepping up their game!


Sevilla FC is actually a 3rd division team. That being said, it would be pretty cool if this came about but last news on that stadium was that it should have been started last August.


----------



## Commandant

There is also Estadio Centroamericano in Mayaguez, Puerto Rico









This stadium was opened in 2010 for the Central American and Caribbean Games


----------



## carlspannoosh

Rayman87 said:


> calm down man, don't be so sensitive. i was just asking why they don't have a roof that's all !!!


:bash: No you wern't. You came onto an American stadium thread ignorantly and incorrectly stating that American stadiums are ugly and don't have roofs . How about telling us where you are from so that we can at least compare them to the type of stadiums that you are used to in your country.


----------



## LS Design

carlspannoosh said:


> :bash: No you wern't. You came onto an American stadium thread ignorantly and incorrectly stating that American stadiums are ugly and don't have roofs . How about telling us where you are from so that we can at least compare them to the type of stadiums that you are used to in your country.


I don't understand what is the big issue if they have roof or not. Every country has its style of architecture and it is what make them different from one another. Every country has its climates which may influence the design of the stadium. Baseball stadiums don't need a roof because if it rains the game will be Rained Out or Postponed. We should learn to respect and cherish the architecture and the aesthetics of the stadiums overall.


----------



## slipperydog

We just finished the American soccer names debate for the 150th time, and now we're on to the roofs again...oh dear


----------



## carlspannoosh

LS Design said:


> I don't understand what is the big issue if they have roof or not. Every country has its style of architecture and it is what make them different from one another. Every country has its climates which may influence the design of the stadium. Baseball stadiums don't need a roof because if it rains the game will be Rained Out or Postponed. We should learn to respect and cherish the architecture and the aesthetics of the stadiums overall.


 Indeed.I am just saying that there are plenty of both roofed and non roofed stadiums in the US. Either way it certainly isn't the defining aspect in regards to the quality or aesthetics of a stadium.


----------



## Alemanniafan

slipperydog said:


> We just finished the American soccer names debate for the 150th time, and now we're on to the roofs again...oh dear


Ok, let's talk about the names of roofs then for a change. :lol:


----------



## krudmonk

hai guis, do u call it soccer or football??


----------



## ArnageWRC

krudmonk said:


> hai guis, do u call it soccer or football??


Well it's proper name is Association Football, as opposed to Rugby Football, American Football, Aussie Rules Football, Gaelic Football, etc


----------



## bigbossman

rantanamo said:


> was the roof really that prevalent outside of England before the 2000s? The boom came with FIFA's recommendations last decade. The US had its roof race in the 30s. Then it had a dome race. Now its a retractable roof race. Catch up.


They were hardly prevalent in England either, most clubs didn't get stadiums with roofs until the taylor report, the only clubs with fully roofed stadiums I can think of were Man u, Liverpool, Leeds, Leicester, West Ham and maybe Spurs. A lot of clubs had at least one open terraced end if not two.



ArnageWRC said:


> Well it's proper name is Association Football, as opposed to Rugby Football, American Football, Aussie Rules Football, Gaelic Football, etc


1. Krudmonk is displaying his frustration with the perceived repetitiveness of the debate (he's on nearly every forum on the internet) with a bit of misplaced humour.

2. Despite that I will just to state the proper name for association football _is _football, in fact the only sport for which you have listed a proper name is Rugby football. The rest are just plain football, the addition is to differentiate themselves from others that claim the name and it's usually an exterior term.


----------



## BoulderGrad

We have a trolls list. Perhaps a mod should start a 'dead horse' list? 

I'll get the ball rolling:
1. Names of North American Soccer teams
2. Roof vs No Roof
3. Calling it Soccer vs Football
4. Does (American city) deserve (transplanting team)
5. Will (American city) possibly get (possibly transplanting team)


----------



## shivtim

SIC said:


> I came up with an even better example for Americans, an MLS re-location team proposed "Atlanta Union 1865" or even just "Atlanta Fire", would that fly? No sir!


While I agree with your overall point, your Atlanta example doesn't make much sense. In fact, there's already a soccer team in Atlanta called the Hotlanta Blaze. Most of the people in Atlanta aren't even from the South, and there is certainly no allegiance to the confederate states.


----------



## KingNick

I lost track in those pointless discussions: Which MLS teams are building new stadia at the moment?


----------



## bd popeye

KingNick said:


> I lost track in those pointless discussions: Which MLS teams are building new stadia at the moment?


Kansas City, Houston. Portland should be ready now. And the New England Revolution needs a new SSS like 10 years ago...and of course DC United always has need a new SSS.


----------



## KingNick

bd popeye said:


> Kansas City, Houston. Portland should be ready now. And the New England Revolution needs a new SSS like 10 years ago...and of course DC United always has need a new SSS.


Thanks a lot!


----------



## bd popeye

KingNick said:


> Thanks a lot!


You are welcome! Oops I forgot one >> San Jose is clearing land for a future SSS.

In Canada I think I read that a new stadium or a re-modeled one will be ready for Montreal's entry into the MLS in 2012 or 2013. Also BC Place should be ready for the Vancouver side summer of this year!!


----------



## Darloeye

What is San jose's stadium going to look like ?


----------



## BoulderGrad

Darloeye said:


> What is San jose's stadium going to look like ?


Only old renders around:


----------



## Darloeye

^^ Thanks. I Remember seeing them designs now


----------



## nyrmetros

bd popeye said:


> You are welcome! Oops I forgot one >> San Jose is clearing land for a future SSS.
> 
> In Canada I think I read that a new stadium or a re-modeled one will be ready for Montreal's entry into the MLS in 2012 or 2013. Also BC Place should be ready for the Vancouver side summer of this year!!


Montreal will be upgraded.


----------



## Rev Stickleback

bigbossman said:


> They were hardly prevalent in England either, most clubs didn't get stadiums with roofs until the taylor report, the only clubs with fully roofed stadiums I can think of were Man u, Liverpool, Leeds, Leicester, West Ham and maybe Spurs. A lot of clubs had at least one open terraced end if not two.


On the other hand it was (and still is) incredibly rare to find uncovered seating.

Going back to the mids 80s, for example, there were plenty that were covered on all four sides, if not actually fully covered. A quick count shows about a third of all league grounds have some cover on all four sides.

For grounds that were fully, or almost fully covered, I'd add Man City, Blackburn, Sheffield United, Rotherham, Scunthorpe, Grimsby, Ipswich, Norwich, Hereford, Swansea, Birmingham, Aston Villa, Wolves, Stoke, Everton, Wrexham, Luton, QPR. In Scotland, you'd have Celtic and Rangers, as well as Aberdeen.

You'd have to go to semi-pro level to find a club that didn't have substantial cover on at least two sides.


I don't think the UK particulary lead the way in terms of cover. It was pretty common across Northern Europe. Even in Southern Europe clubs would still typically have one stand covered at least. 

Looking at older US stadiums, far more of them seem to be covered than now. Without checking too deeply, it seems that professional league stadiums became uncovered during the first major phase of rebuilding in the 1970s.


----------



## SIC

Rev Stickleback said:


> Looking at older US stadiums, far more of them seem to be covered than now. Without checking too deeply, it seems that professional league stadiums became uncovered during the first major phase of rebuilding in the 1970s.


Baseball stadiums, have traditional covered their grandstand. In the 60s and 70s, a lot of teams moved into multi-use stadiums, sharing with mainly NFL teams. Before the NFL was a big deal, NFL teams would just play on baseball fields. In Chicago, the bears played at wrigley.

I think, that the NFL playing a winter schedule is the reason most teams moved against roofs. It snows in most places in the US in winter, so a roof isn't going to help and you also want whatever rays of light from the sun to hit you. Shade is stupidly cold in a typical northeastern/midwestern winter in the states.


----------



## metros11

bd popeye said:


> Kansas City, Houston. Portland should be ready now. And the New England Revolution needs a new SSS like 10 years ago...and of course DC United always has need a new SSS.


BD, you crack me up. You may not be an MLS fan, but you sure do know your MLS stadia! :cheers:


----------



## bd popeye

metros11 said:


> BD, you crack me up. You may not be an MLS fan, but you sure do know your MLS stadia! :cheers:


Thanks mate..and cheers to you!:cheers:

Nope I'm no soccer fan but I am a stadium fan! And that started a few years ago looking on line for stadium pictures and I found Skyscrapercity!! A virtual treasure trove of stadiums!


----------



## Darloeye

bd popeye said:


> and I found Skyscrapercity!! A virtual treasure trove of stadiums!


Its like one great big porn website for stadiums and skyscapers. :horse:


----------



## bd popeye

Darloeye said:


> Its like one great big porn website for stadiums and skyscapers. :horse:


LAMO! You got that right! The first stadium site I found was 

*Ballparks by Munsey and Suppes*

..a so so site..

Then it was *World Stadiums*

They must be afraid to post larger and more up-to-date pix..

Then I found skyscrapercity stadium forum. Aaahhh!..porn as Darloeye states for stadiums and other things we nerds are interested in! Yes I'm a 57 year old nerd. Except I have sex with my wife regularly and not myself!:lol:


----------



## bd popeye

Hey did you MLS fans know there's an MLS thread in this SSC??

Major League Soccer

There's a bunch of members posting over there that I did not know existed.

SSC is so big it is easy to miss threads.


----------



## Darloeye

bd popeye said:


> Hey did you MLS fans know there's an MLS thread in this SSC??
> 
> Major League Soccer
> 
> There's a bunch of members posting over there that I did not know existed.
> 
> SSC is so big it is easy to miss threads.


thanks. yeah its a massive website just the sport/stadiums pages are enough to lose yourseft for a week or two. lol


----------



## Bobby3

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigeast/post/_/id/19127/villanova-delays-vote-on-big-east-football

Villanova's football team wants to move up to DI-A and expand PPL Park to 30,000. Though it's a ways down the road if it happens at all. It's basically their only option since Franklin Field is controlled by Penn and the Linc has a deal with Temple. I guess, _theoretically_, Citizens Bank Park is an option, but that isn't happening.

Not sure how it would look expanded, or how happy the Union would be sharing. Not to mention that Chester isn't exactly next to Villanova.


----------



## bd popeye

> Villanova's football team wants to move up to DI-A and expand PPL Park to 30,000.


They 'Nova was D-1 some years ago.. 

Overall in my opinion if soccer wants to thrive in the US the MSL need not share their stadiums with any sort of football team....Imagine if you will the Union have a game scheduled on a Tuesday. BUT >>'Nova plays a game on the previous Saturday in a rainstorm. Imagine the "pitch" condition even if it is re-worked after 'Novas game. Not good. Not good at all.


----------



## MS20

Soccer will thrive in the US irrespective. I have no problem with football sharing with gridiron teams. My initial issue with the MLS was teams playing in cavernous NFL stadiums. The other way around works fine (non-pro gridiron, college/HS), because it validates future investment in SSS's. 

Its painfully obvious that NFL stadium owners really like what football can bring to the table. Whether its club friendlies, international friendlies, or competitive international matches, it is one of the key ways that stadiums can look to remain profitable. The two most recent sellouts at New Meadowlands and Nashville being examples. And naturally that applies the other way as well. SSS's are a blessing for football in the US, but most (I don't know the exact details) are still publically financed. If its owned by the city, why shouldn't college teams play there? As long as the schedule is fair, and MLS gets preferential treatment. 

Football in the US has only really just turned a corner in the last decade. People who complain about the state of it have a short memory. If this is what we're complaining about, then the future looks rosy.


----------



## metros11

Bobby3 said:


> http://espn.go.com/blog/bigeast/post/_/id/19127/villanova-delays-vote-on-big-east-football


And I'm still not sold on the fact that the Union would allow the expansion of PPL Park.


----------



## Topher51

Bobby3 said:


> Not to mention that Chester isn't exactly next to Villanova.


Villanova is only about 15 miles from Chester, but college football should be played in on-campus stadiums. The students won't travel in masses to an off-campus stadium even if there are shuttles and the alumni would prefer to come back to the school, rather than a random stadium in the metro area. 

I also agree with the Popeye about the field. The weather in PA in the late fall/early winter is terrible and the field will be torn up during a gridiron game if it is the least bit wet. It's in the Union's best interest if Villanova find another place to play. Sounds like the Big East might require it anyway.


----------



## Bobby3

Yea, the Linc and Heinz Field -- both shared by college and pro teams -- already resemble cabbage patches by fall. Even Tampa has issues and that field spends all day in the southern sun.

I agree that college football needs to be on-campus. The teams that rent from pro teams or use civic venues usually have poor atmospheres compared to on-campus facilities where the students can just walk to the game.


----------



## bd popeye

> My initial issue with the MLS was teams playing in cavernous NFL stadiums. The other way around works fine (non-pro gridiron, college/HS), because it validates future investment in SSS's....Football (association football) in the US has only really just turned a corner in the last decade. People who complain about the state of it have a short memory. If this is what we're complaining about, then the future looks rosy.


Agreed 100%!!



> Its painfully obvious that NFL stadium owners really like what football can bring to the table. Whether its club friendlies, international friendlies, or competitive international matches, it is one of the key ways that stadiums can look to remain profitable. The two most recent sellouts at New Meadowlands and Nashville being examples. And naturally that applies the other way as well.


Many NFL stadiums are owned by the particular city, state or county which an NFL team calls home. However most NFL teams have some very "sweet" leases with said stadiums.


----------



## Archbishop

College football already failed in Philly with Temple. There's a reason why there are very few small schools in D-1A. They can't support a team. Villanova is perfect where it is.


----------



## mattec

Archbishop said:


> College football already failed in Philly with Temple. There's a reason why there are very few small schools in D-1A. They can't support a team. Villanova is perfect where it is.


They might be but the cool millions they'll get for just being in a BCS AQ conf. will make it worth their while to suck and have lousy attendance away from their campus.

Also, the BE could use their potential future market presence in future media deals.


----------



## mattec

Topher51 said:


> Villanova is only about 15 miles from Chester, but college football should be played in on-campus stadiums. The students won't travel in masses to an off-campus stadium even if there are shuttles and the alumni would prefer to come back to the school, rather than a random stadium in the metro area.


The locals around VU's stadium won't let them expand their current OCS...


----------



## hngcm

Who would pay for PPL's expansion? 

Can the Union sell out a 30k stadium? 

I want Villanova to move up to the Big East so the BE can stop poaching teams from other conferences!


----------



## KingmanIII

hngcm said:


> Who would pay for PPL's expansion?
> 
> Can the Union sell out a 30k stadium?
> 
> I want Villanova to move up to the Big East so the BE can stop poaching teams from other conferences!


BE should just invite ECU

football-crazy fanbase that sells out a 50,000-seat stadium


----------



## carnifex2005

KingmanIII said:


> BE should just invite ECU
> 
> football-crazy fanbase that sells out a 50,000-seat stadium


True but to the Big East this is all about Philly's potential TV market and not about stadium size or current fan base.


----------



## Topher51

carnifex2005 said:


> True but to the Big East this is all about Philly's potential TV market and not about stadium size or current fan base.


Agreed. ECU has a good football program, but I doubt the Greenville/Raleigh area is nearly as appealing to the Big East as Philly or Orlando.


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## Darloeye

Nice little stadium.


----------



## hngcm

Can't wait to see the Timbers vs Sounders game

Is the capacity still going to be 36k for the game?


----------



## GunnerJacket

Darloeye said:


> Nice little stadium.


That's more than nice, to be honest. It's a solid venue that's unique from the norm and not cheaply given over to the soccer stadium/performance venue that was the early MLS norm. I love that the exterior has some distinct characteristics.

Still early, but this stadium is exceeding my expectations in most every way thus far. Bravo, Kansas City. Bravo.


----------



## koolio

Yep ... that stadium is awesome. Looks like a slightly cheaper version of Red Bull Arena ... which makes it the second best SSS in the league. BMO Field is so crap in comparison.


----------



## Welkin

koolio said:


> Yep ... that stadium is awesome. Looks like a slightly cheaper version of Red Bull Arena ... which makes it the second best SSS in the league. BMO Field is so crap in comparison.


TFC has outgrown BMO. It was originally built on the cheap because it had to be finished fast for the U-20 tournament and because no one really knew how successful soccer would be in Toronto (the Lynx were not exactly setting attendance records). It is five years later and the demand for soccer in Toronto is quite evident. It is time for MLSE to start making plans for a decent stadium like Red Bull Arena and turn crappy BMO over to the Argos. A 30,000 seat Red Bull Arena would send TFC into the stratosphere and would be the best soccer venue in North America.


----------



## SJAnfield

Welkin said:


> TFC has outgrown BMO. It was originally built on the cheap because it had to be finished fast for the U-20 tournament and because no one really knew how successful soccer would be in Toronto (the Lynx were not exactly setting attendance records). It is five years later and the demand for soccer in Toronto is quite evident. It is time for MLSE to start making plans for a decent stadium like Red Bull Arena and turn crappy BMO over to the Argos. A 30,000 seat Red Bull Arena would send TFC into the stratosphere and would be the best soccer venue in North America.


Why start from scratch? BMO is easily expandable and its not that hard to beautify it. Put another 10-15,000 seats in and throw on some interesting bells and whistles and save yourself a bundle. 

Also, A 30,000 seat stadium that isn't full looks worse than a 20,000 seat stadium that is packed and loud IMHO.


----------



## koolio

No way. They need to put the expansion plans on the shelf. All the constant losing has taken its toll. The demand for tickets really isn't that high anymore. The only reason demand is inflated is because there are like 16,000 people on the waiting list. The people who currently have the season tix are die hards where as it is quite likely that the people on the waiting list will most likely refuse if they were given the oppurtunity (or unless they were offered the cheapest seats). 

The problem with BMO is that it was built on the cheap. No facade ... no roof ... minimal amenities. It was built to meet the bare minimum necessities. The capacity is ok for the foreseeable future in my opinion.


----------



## Welkin

SJAnfield said:


> Why start from scratch? BMO is easily expandable and its not that hard to beautify it. Put another 10-15,000 seats in and throw on some interesting bells and whistles and save yourself a bundle.
> 
> Also, A 30,000 seat stadium that isn't full looks worse than a 20,000 seat stadium that is packed and loud IMHO.


BMO really is a cheap stadium. I would not put anymore money into it. TFC has the same problem as the Leafs and the Raptors, terrible ownership. MLSE has done a horrible job with TFC with no playoffs in *five* years. Just like with the Leafs (how do you screw up hockey in the biggest hockey market in the world), MLSE has not done what is needed to build a winning team. Give TFC a decent place to play and a winning team, and they would easily fill a 30,000 seat arena (just like Seattle). Toronto has some great soccer fans, but unfortunately just like Leafs fans, they better get used to losing because MLSE management couldn't get laid in a whorehouse.


----------



## GunnerJacket

A little humility if you please, folks.

BMO and Crew Stadiums are indeed a tier (or two) behind their younger peers, but they're bona fide home venues for clubs and a league still seeking to cement their identities. The league remains financially humble in its earnings and will remain so until media revenues begin to grow by geometric proportions. Which means there's very little incentive for drastic investment that won't bring about an equally increased stream of revenues, even with the likely unpopular increase in ticket prices.

Verily, MLS fans should be quite cautious before sounding out about the "deservedness" for better stadiums. The Home Depot Center isn't even 10 years old!

1999 - Crew Stadium 
2003 - Home Depot Center 
2005 - Pizza Hut Park 
2006 - Toyota Park
2007 - Dick's Sporting Goods Park, BMO Field
2008 - Rio Tinto Stadium
2010 - PPL Park, Red Bull Arena 

I also seem to recall a couple years ago BMO set the standard for league atmosphere, which suggests the venue can work just fine for now.

The ownership? That's something I can't help you with. Sorry.

Cheers. :cheers:


----------



## Welkin

Gunner, I agree with you 100%. Stadiums are often seem like arms races where where everyone is trying to be the best. Attendance at BMO is dropping because of poor performance on the field, some of the highest ticket prices in the league and an ownership group that seems to take its fans for granted. We TFC fans swarmed BMO in the beginning because we were crazy about getting a MLS team. We knew back then it was a crappy stadium (remember the bolts falling out of the stadium structure) but we were just happy to get any soccer specific stadium. Keep in mind that BMO only cost $62 million (Canadian Dollars) to build (most of the other new MLS stadiums cost well over $100+ million) and was designed more to host the FIFA U-20 tournament than a professional sports organization. Considering the size of the Toronto market, the profitability of TFC, and the very large fan base; sometime in the next five years we should at least be talking about building what Kansas City has now.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Don't get me wrong, I do think it behooves these clubs to escape anything that gives the appearance of being a third tier league, such as venues that can't compete with the local high school! If BMO is structurally deficient then by all means it should be renovated. But as we all know the political climate is tough for public support these days and I can't see MLSE paying for something brand new all their own, so griping about a 5 year old stadium doesn't sound all that good.

Besides, I can't speak as to the viability for the overall site and its location in the city but I'm a strong advocate for rehab projects (I think of it as extreme recycling!) and I'd love to see if there's a way to take the existing facility and get it done right. Might yield a lot more character than a new facility (think Jeld-Wen Field), and done right would allow for incremental development that is easier to swallow financially and schedule-wise. One man's opinion, anyway. 

Regardless I hope TFC fans retain their spirit and someday have a place we're all enamored with.


----------



## mamangvilla

any pics from portland home opener?


----------



## Marckymarc

mamangvilla said:


> any pics from portland home opener?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DkbUDXfPPE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDRraf2NCH4


----------



## bd popeye

^^Dang! I'm not a soccer fan but I like that first video!^^

Not crazy about the singing. I don't get that at all!


----------



## matthemod

I had the great pleasure of studying abroad in the U.S. for a year and as such experienced professional baseball and basketball, and college American Football and Basketball and I was utterly confused as to why there wasn't any singing, instead just a wall of noise or simple chants like "DEFENCE" etc. Having American soccer fans singing is as I imagine, another attempt to be similar to the European Leagues.

I've always found it weird that Liverpool sing a song from a 1945 Musical made popular by Scouse band in the 1960's. My own team in the bottom division of the Football League sing our own version of the Engelbert Humperdinck song "Last Waltz". Perhaps it's to symbolise some sort of romantic connection with the team that's intrinsic with the sport and perhaps not other sports.


----------



## Lupin III

matthemod said:


> I had the great pleasure of studying abroad in the U.S. for a year and as such experienced professional baseball and basketball, and college American Football and Basketball and I was utterly confused as to why there wasn't any singing, instead just a wall of noise or simple chants like "DEFENCE" etc. Having American soccer fans singing is as I imagine, another attempt to be similar to the European Leagues.


But hopefully you dont see it as a problem that the MLS fans tries to be similar with european leagues. When I saw the click where the Timbers Army sang Cant help falling in love, the Timbers Army got an A+ in my book as football fans.

As a european fan that always found american sport fandom boring, I was really happy to see them copying this.


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^ Pro sports in the U.S. doesn't have the organized supporters culture that soccer has in the rest of the world. MLS teams are starting to grow their own supporters groups (some of which have been around since the NASL days), but that has mostly stuck to MLS and no other leagues. Not sure how it goes with other hockey leagues or basketball leagues in the world, but I can't think of an NHL team or NBA team that has a supporters group that has a dedicated section in the stands or flags and banners. Just lots of fans joining in the fun:

Vancouver Canucks Towel Power:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp8XOv3gOtk

If you want to see organized chants and singing, you'll have to go to an NCAA game. Just about every school has a series of fight songs lead by a marching band that students will sing along with:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLnRbj9SlyM&feature=related

Students also have their own cheers to go along with various songs the band plays. U of Colorado's band played a sped up version of Gary Glitter's Rock N' Roll Part 2 (otherwise known as the 'hey' song). At the end of each verse all the students are supposed to chant 'buffaloes buffaloes, go C.U.' but as you can see from the video, they've made their own lyrics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXsvl-6circ


----------



## bd popeye

As long as the MLS fans don't start singing some country western song I guess the singing and chanting will be ok.


----------



## en1044

bd popeye said:


> As long as the MLS fans don't start singing some country western song I guess the singing and chanting will be ok.


Couldn't resist. I just watched the movie.


----------



## en1044

matthemod said:


> I had the great pleasure of studying abroad in the U.S. for a year and as such experienced professional baseball and basketball, and college American Football and Basketball and I was utterly confused as to why there wasn't any singing, instead just a wall of noise or simple chants like "DEFENCE" etc. Having American soccer fans singing is as I imagine, another attempt to be similar to the European Leagues.
> 
> I've always found it weird that Liverpool sing a song from a 1945 Musical made popular by Scouse band in the 1960's. My own team in the bottom division of the Football League sing our own version of the Engelbert Humperdinck song "Last Waltz". Perhaps it's to symbolise some sort of romantic connection with the team that's intrinsic with the sport and perhaps not other sports.


I've come to realize that it's not the American sporting culture not to sing, it's American culture as a whole. Americans are a very independent people. We like our ability to express our opinions individually. In many countries, like in Europe, people are much more united. You see it in protest, in political parties, in their sporting culture, and at music festivals. People sing, dance and chant together. It's what they were raised to do. Americans care just the same, they just choose to do it by themselves.


----------



## Buffalo

matthemod said:


> I had the great pleasure of studying abroad in the U.S. for a year and as such experienced professional baseball and basketball, and college American Football and Basketball and I was utterly confused as to why there wasn't any singing, instead just a wall of noise or simple chants like "DEFENCE" etc. Having American soccer fans singing is as I imagine, another attempt to be similar to the European Leagues.


Another thing to consider is that fans of american football want to be loud as possible when their team is on defense, and quite when they are on offense. This has to do with plays calls and cadence.


----------



## eMKay

Wait, MLSE runs Toronto FC? I did not know that, there goes any chance of them ever winning anything! That's too bad.


----------



## GunnerJacket

en1044 said:


> Couldn't resist. I just watched the movie.


Great line. Great movie. Great timing. 


:cheers:


----------



## warpus

MLSE just invested $18 million in a new training/academy facility and it wasn't even 2 years ago that they upgraded the stadium with a new stand and GRASS. I don't like them anymore than you guys, but it's not like they're not trying. In the offseason they brought in Klinsmann, totally new management, and a new team philosophy. You can say what you want, but they are trying.

As for BMO field, it is easily upgradeable, and just because we had 16,000 tickets sold for the last game doesn't really mean anything. We had a full house only a couple days before that - when the LA Galaxy were in town. I was at the game where "only" 16,000 tickets were sold - it was a pretty cold day and.. you know what? There were NHL playoff games on. It's not an indication of any sort of downwards trend at all.

As for specific upgrades to the stadium, they will likely first expand the east stand to add one more tier. After that, they need to fill in all the corners. After that, a roof. They've been spending quite a bit of money on the team - you can't expect to get everything all at once. Upgrades will come in small steps - as we've seen for the last 2 years or so.


----------



## MS20

Actually, Toronto FC are showing the classic signs of pretty much every football league/club that can be viewed as being relatively new. That being that demand tends to subside about 3 seasons in, as the novelty factor fades. That's only natural when you consider that this is a 4 year old club; its not as if its had a 100 years to entrench itself. There isn't the established base of support to fall back on. A fall in demand isn't a sign of anything horrific. 

It might decrease over the next few years, but Toronto will bounce back eventually. People just shouldn't view it as a lack of interest; it was the initial novelty/bandwagon effect that made it seem like there was bigger support than their actually was. It takes a lot of time to become a part of a city's sports psyche. And that applies to soccer in general in Canada/US.

But that's where soccer has an advantage. It's too simple a sport to stay irrelevant for too long. It is the most popular sport in the world not because its the greatest (even if I think it is), but because its simple. And as long as people are playing, it has a bright future in a professional sense.


----------



## metros11

eMKay said:


> Wait, MLSE runs Toronto FC? I did not know that, there goes any chance of them ever winning anything! That's too bad.


As a Red Bulls fan I fully approve of MLSE ownership in Toronto.


----------



## Bobby3

matthemod said:


> I had the great pleasure of studying abroad in the U.S. for a year and as such experienced professional baseball and basketball, and college American Football and Basketball and I was utterly confused as to why there wasn't any singing, instead just a wall of noise or simple chants like "DEFENCE" etc. Having American soccer fans singing is as I imagine, another attempt to be similar to the European Leagues.
> 
> I've always found it weird that Liverpool sing a song from a 1945 Musical made popular by Scouse band in the 1960's. My own team in the bottom division of the Football League sing our own version of the Engelbert Humperdinck song "Last Waltz". Perhaps it's to symbolise some sort of romantic connection with the team that's intrinsic with the sport and perhaps not other sports.


Portland's signature song, if you want to call it that, is "You are my sunshine". http://timbers.soccercityusa.com/timberjim-hannah.html There's the story behind why the sing it, pretty touching, really.


----------



## matthemod

That's really touching, it just shows to portray how much of a community feel can develop because of a common interest in a sport. We had a similar story for my team, that we had the same kit guy, his name was Malcolm, for almost 40 years. He was a regular in the stands and had earned himself a bit of a persona amongthe fans. Unfortunately he died the other year, and regularly at games you can still hear the fans sing "Malcolm, give us a song!" It really is remarkable how things like that can develop.


----------



## warpus

MS20 said:


> Actually, Toronto FC are showing the classic signs of pretty much every football league/club that can be viewed as being relatively new. That being that demand tends to subside about 3 seasons in, as the novelty factor fades. That's only natural when you consider that this is a 4 year old club; its not as if its had a 100 years to entrench itself. There isn't the established base of support to fall back on. A fall in demand isn't a sign of anything horrific.


What are these "signs", though? So far we've had one game with 16,000 tickets sold (as opposed to 21,500). As far as I know all the other games have been attended as well as they have been in the past (including the game vs Columbus I personally attended on Saturday)


----------



## koolio

Did you attend any games last year? I attended two games in August last year and both were far from sold out. In addition, you can tell that demand has dropped by looking at the amount and the price of tickets available through resellers and scalpers outside the stadium. For the first three seasons, it was impossible to get anything. These days you can find 2-4 seats quite easily.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Toronto FC is indeed falling off in attendance, and that is due to 2 reasons:

Regularly raising ticket prices

The team not making the playoffs


----------



## Welkin

BoulderGrad said:


> Toronto FC is indeed falling off in attendance, and that is due to 2 reasons:
> 
> Regularly raising ticket prices
> 
> The team not making the playoffs


I agree with both of these reasons. They have some of the highest prices in the league, for a bottom level team. I've also noticed when I've been to matches in the last two years, that even though the attendance may "officially" be 21,500, the number of butts in the seats can be much lower. Not all those season ticket holders are showing up, and it is much harder for the scalpers and re-sellers to move the tickets. I have bought tickets below face value several times when friends were in town for a visit wanted to catch a match. I think MLSE got greedy, screwed the golden goose, and is now starting to pay the piper. Lets hope the owners in Portland don't make the same mistake.


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## massp88

http://www.ussoccer.com/News/Mens-N...kets-Sold-for-US-MNT-Match-Against-Spain.aspx

Pretty impressive but not really a big surprise. Hopefully the full Spain squad shows us for this one.


----------



## carnifex2005

The Division Two San Antonio Scorpions FC of the NASL finalized their stadium plans. The stadium will be completed in time for the 2013 season. In 2012 they will play at Heroes Stadium. Below are some renders...

Phase 1 = 5,000 seats










Phase 2 = 9,000 seats










Hopefully more Division Two teams can get their acts together and build soccer specific stadiums that are team controlled.


----------



## hngcm

looks better than BMO field


----------



## koolio

LOL I wouldn't go as far as to say that. It certainly looks like a top notch second division facility though. Soccer will go far in this continent if even lower tier leagues are sustainable.


----------



## Bobby3

Looks like Charleston's stadium.


----------



## vanbasten88

hngcm said:


> looks better than BMO field


Horse sh*t....BMO has 4 sides of seating for starters! :bash:


----------



## GunnerJacket

koolio said:


> LOL I wouldn't go as far as to say that. It certainly looks like a top notch second division facility though. *Soccer will go far in this continent if even lower tier leagues are sustainable*.


Agreed, this is critical. It's also the one drawback to MLS absorbing the stronger teams from the lower ranks, and makes this USL/NASL schism all the more frustrating.

After Montreal moves up the healthiest teams among the lower tiers is arguably reduced to Rochester, Richmond and Charelston within USL, and Minnesota, Atlanta and Carolina in NASL. I'm guessing Rochester is the only one of those capable of pulling 10k+ on average, and certainly the best off in terms of facilities, but can these sides stay afloat financially if their marquee programs are no longer there? Even at 9k sold out for every game, how much $$ can San Antonio make?


----------



## matthemod

I suppose in an ideal world, there would be a combined second division featuring USL and NASL conferences (much like the NFL), allowing teams to develop a core fanbase and subsequently get "promoted" as it were to the MLS. In doing so, allowing space for a new team to arise from the PDL.

It's not promotion as in the European model per se, but more of a development league, a warm up league so to speak. However big business speaks louder than merit in American sports, and I wouldn't be surprised if those existing teams in the USL/NASL who arguably deserve an MLS spot get put aside for a newly formed expansion team.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Even taking the promotion/relegation angle out of it, US fans and team owners alike prefer clarity (college football aside). And as a business model I'd imagine any second division would be more attractive to fans and sponsors if it were larger and more organized. It's truly silly that Rochester and Montreal aren't in the same league right now.

Especially now that MLS is providing a model where pro soccer and SSSs are more viable than ever, it would be nice to have a true, unified second division to build off that social mindset. That way we'd get more places like San Antonio, Cary and Charleston with dedicated ownership.

One man's opine, of course.

:cheers:


----------



## GunnerJacket

koolio said:


> It certainly looks like a top notch second division facility though.


Begs the question - What (if any) features/ amenities can be put into a <10k stadium that would make it truly special or unique? Not degrading the San Antonio model, just thinking out loud here.


----------



## BoulderGrad

GunnerJacket said:


> Even taking the promotion/relegation angle out of it, US fans and team owners alike prefer clarity (college football aside). And as a business model I'd imagine any second division would be more attractive to fans and sponsors if it were larger and more organized. It's truly silly that Rochester and Montreal aren't in the same league right now.
> 
> Especially now that MLS is providing a model where pro soccer and SSSs are more viable than ever, it would be nice to have a true, unified second division to build off that social mindset. That way we'd get more places like San Antonio, Cary and Charleston with dedicated ownership.
> 
> One man's opine, of course.
> 
> :cheers:



This season would seem to be fairly sorted out. NASL is now sanctioned as the 2nd division of US soccer and USL Pro is the third division. NASL now needs to get their act together as they only have 8 teams with one leaving next season (Montreal). Having a 2nd division of 15-16 teams and a 3rd division of 15-16 would be awesome.


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

It's interesting that the two teams with the best SSS stadiums outside the MLS and two of the most successful, Rochester and Charleston, aren't even in the second tier of American Soccer.


----------



## carnifex2005

BoulderGrad said:


> This season would seem to be fairly sorted out. NASL is now sanctioned as the 2nd division of US soccer and USL Pro is the third division. NASL now needs to get their act together as they only have 8 teams with one leaving next season (Montreal). Having a 2nd division of 15-16 teams and a 3rd division of 15-16 would be awesome.


San Antonio is taking Monreal's spot. 8 is an important number since that is the minimum amount needed for Div 2 sanctioning by the USSF.


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## mattec

Marshall University has revealed plans to build a new 1000 - 1500 seat Soccer stadium.



















This is part of a larger plan that also included a multi sport indoor practice facility that will be utilized by the football team, track team, soccer teams, tennis team, and baseball & softball teams.



















The total project cost is $30 million, $25 million for the IPF and $5 million for the soccer stadium. Funding will come from private donors ($19million) and bonds ($11 million).


----------



## Bobby3

ElDudarinodotcom said:


> It's interesting that the two teams with the best SSS stadiums outside the MLS and two of the most successful, Rochester and Charleston, aren't even in the second tier of American Soccer.


Charleston was the odd one out in the whole USL v NASL mess, they weren't happy with what the NASL teams wanted to do and thought it was unfeasible, but weren't exactly thrilled with the direction of the USL either. Eventually they settled on the USL because it was the best option for them geographically (specifically it gave them Charlotte and Richmond).

Really is a well run team, I think it actually turns a small profit!


----------



## Welkin

mattec said:


> Marshall University has revealed plans to build a new 1000 - 1500 seat Soccer stadium.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is part of a larger plan that also included a multi sport indoor practice facility that will be utilized by the football team, track team, soccer teams, tennis team, and baseball & softball teams.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The total project cost is $30 million, $25 million for the IPF and $5 million for the soccer stadium. Funding will come from private donors ($19million) and bonds ($11 million).


Great to see Marshall catching up and finally getting an indoor practice facility. The new soccer stadium is to replace their current facility (which is located in part where the new indoor facility is scheduled to be built) and it is a major upgrade. Go Herd.


----------



## Archbishop

The thing with Rochester and Charleston is that being in USL is much more cost-efficient and casual fans really don't care or know about the difference in NASL and USL Pro, a difference which really isn't too large in the first place. Right now before there is a stable D2, it's just better to be in D3. Maybe if NASL grows Charleston and Rochester will move back to D2.


----------



## mattec

Welkin said:


> Great to see Marshall catching up and finally getting an indoor practice facility. The new soccer stadium is to replace their current facility (which is located in part where the new indoor facility is scheduled to be built) and it is a major upgrade. Go Herd.


I'm just glad they're doing this project the right way, the IPF will blow almost all others out of the water, and the new soccer field is miles ahead of Sam Hood Field (the old one).


----------



## Bobby3

West Virginia's soccer stadium is actually really nice, so it's good to see Marshall offering something comparable in that regard.


----------



## nyrmetros

Who has the best college soccer stadium in the country?


----------



## matthemod

Basing it solely on my own experience I'm gonna have to say the Bill Armstrong stadium at Indiana University. Two sides of bleachers, with a specially designated student section named "the Cage" full of nutjobs, they even have "Ultra" style flags, flares and chants! They regularly pull pretty respectable crowds and IU are high up the NCAA rankings so going to an IU soccer game was always enjoyable.


----------



## carnifex2005

nyrmetros said:


> Who has the best college soccer stadium in the country?


Probably Morrison Stadium in Omaha. Creighton University. Seats 6,000 and they regularly sellout.


----------



## Bobby3

Texas has a huge one, but it's also surrounded by a 9-lane track, so I'm not sure I'd count it.

Holmes Stadium at Bucknell is a fantastic little place, not the best in the country, but worth a look. http://www.bucknellbison.com/facilities/buck-varsity-soccer-field.html


----------



## Commandant

nyrmetros said:


> Who has the best college soccer stadium in the country?


It's a tie:

Morrison Stadium (cap. 6,000), Omaha, NE:









KSU Soccer Stadium (cap. 8,300), Kennesaw, GA:


----------



## GunnerJacket

^^^
I can't speak to the venue in Omaha, but the KSU stadium was built in part to a) host the Atlanta Beat professional women's team and, more importantly for KSU, b) as an excuse to get into American football in the very near future. I fully expect to see some gridiron being played there within 5-10 years.


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

nyrmetros said:


> Who has the best college soccer stadium in the country?


Harder Stadium at University of California Santa Barbara is very nice and pretty large at 17,000 capacity. The highest attendance at any NCAA (on campus) soccer match occurred last year with 15,896 attendees.



http://ucsbgauchos.cstv.com/sports/m-soccer/cupharder.html


----------



## El Mariachi

ElDudarinodotcom said:


> Harder Stadium at University of California Santa Barbara is very nice and pretty large at 17,000 capacity. The highest attendance at any NCAA (on campus) soccer match occurred last year with 15,896 attendees.
> 
> 
> 
> http://ucsbgauchos.cstv.com/sports/m-soccer/cupharder.html


Jim Rome was just talking abou UCSB soccer.


----------



## SJAnfield

El Mariachi said:


> Jim Rome was just talking abou UCSB soccer.


Was he foaming at the mouth and speaking in tongues?


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

El Mariachi said:


> Jim Rome was just talking abou UCSB soccer.


Jim Rome went to UCSB. He had one of the greatest quotes regarding UCSB in the NCAA basketball tournament this year

"But I will guarantee two things -- one, if they do win, kegs will be tapped and couches will be burned in isla vista. And two, if they lose, kegs will be tapped and couches will be burned in isla vista."

Let me tell you...There was definitely many couch fires that night..:cheers:


----------



## Commandant

Here are some other great Collegiate Soccer facilities:

Klöckner Stadium, Charlottesville, Virginia









Belson Soccer Stadium, Jamaica, New York









Robert R. Hermann Stadium, St. Louis, Missouri









W. Dennie Spry Soccer Stadium, Winston-Salem, North Carolina









Joseph J. Morrone Soccer Stadium, Storrs, Connecticut









Yurcak Field, Piscataway, New Jersey









Titan Stadium, Fullerton, California


----------



## Commandant

More:

East Remote Soccer Field, Santa Cruz, California (the best view in college soccer)









Riggs Field, Clemson, South Carolina









Van Andel Soccer Stadium, Holland, Michigan


----------



## Commandant

More:

NKU Soccer Stadium, Highland Heights, Kentucky

























UNCG Soccer Stadium, Greensboro, North Carolina









Aggie Soccer Stadium, College Station, Texas


----------



## GunnerJacket

Average attendance for NCAA Div 1 last season can be found here.

Top 20

5,873 - UC Santa Barbara 
3,213 - Akron 
3,126 - Connecticut 
3,013 - Cal Poly 
2,940 - Maryland 
2,768 - Louisville 
2,731 - New Mexico 
2,277 - Creighton 
2,271 - Indiana 
2,094 - Wake Forest 
2,069 - Virginia 
2,054 - South Carolina 
1,842 - Penn St 
1,629 - North Carolina 
1,628 - Michigan 
1,539 - Portland 
1,389 - Charlotte 
1,311 - Ohio St 
1,302 - St. John’s (NY) 
1,287 - Clemson 

ACC and Big East conferences tend to do very well here, as well as the California schools and select places where soccer is arguably THE sport on campus (Portland, Akron...).


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

^^ Looking at that list, Cal Poly SLO's soccer stadium is also really nice



http://www.mydynamo.net/profiles/blog/list?month=02&year=2009


----------



## MNorthStar

GunnerJacket said:


> Average attendance for NCAA Div 1 last season can be found here.
> 
> Top 20
> 
> 5,873 - UC Santa Barbara
> 3,213 - Akron
> 3,126 - Connecticut
> 3,013 - Cal Poly
> 2,940 - Maryland
> 2,768 - Louisville
> 2,731 - New Mexico
> 2,277 - Creighton
> 2,271 - Indiana
> 2,094 - Wake Forest
> 2,069 - Virginia
> 2,054 - South Carolina
> 1,842 - Penn St
> 1,629 - North Carolina
> 1,628 - Michigan
> 1,539 - Portland
> 1,389 - Charlotte
> 1,311 - Ohio St
> 1,302 - St. John’s (NY)
> 1,287 - Clemson
> 
> ACC and Big East conferences tend to do very well here, as well as the California schools and select places where soccer is arguably THE sport on campus (Portland, Akron...).


Some great college soccer venues on here...

Since many people like to compare soccer's popularity with hockey, here are the 2010 home attendance averages for the top 20 D-1 hockey programs.

Outside of the big 3 Upper Midwest schools, the attendances aren't a whole lot greater than many of the soccer figures. Both sports are very localised in terms of support -- California and the Mid-Atlantic for soccer and the Upper Midwest and New England for hockey. Given that both sports have a tough enough time spreading their popularity at the professional level, I wonder if collegiate growth will ever really happen...or whether such growth at the collegiate level really even matters for the sustainability of either professional league (NHL and MLS).

AVERAGE HOME ATTENDANCE 2010
NCAA Hockey

1. Wisconsin - 15,048
2. North Dakota - 11,654
3. Minnesota - 10,108
4. Neb.-Omaha - 6,866
5. Michigan - 6,646
6. Colorado College - 6,548
7. New Hampshire - 5,760
8. St. Cloud St - 5,670
9. Denver - 5,527
10. Massachusetts - 5,313
11. Boston U - 5,167
12. Boston College - 5,012
13. Michigan St - 4,966
14. Mass.-Lowell - 4,664
15. Minn. Duluth - 4,512
16. Maine - 4,291
17. Cornell - 4,264
18. Vermont - 3,944
19. Minn. St. Mankato - 3,880
20. Alas. Anchorage - 3,310


----------



## GunnerJacket

^^ Yeah, Soccer and hockey are the niche-sport amigos of the US sporting landscape. I can't speak for the college-pro rapport for the icy half of that pair, but I know that the structure for collegiate (and high school) soccer is actually counterproductive to advancement of the professional game in the US. Put simply, the limited play and practice permitted under NCAA rules makes it tougher for US youth to match their global counterparts in development. Much like with baseball, if minor league soccer ever provided a viable career option for the best kids out of high school, more of them would go that route rather than play at, say, UVA for 20 games every fall.

We shall see.


----------



## El Mariachi

ElDudarinodotcom said:


> Jim Rome went to UCSB. He had one of the greatest quotes regarding UCSB in the NCAA basketball tournament this year
> 
> "But I will guarantee two things -- one, if they do win, kegs will be tapped and couches will be burned in isla vista. And two, if they lose, kegs will be tapped and couches will be burned in isla vista."
> 
> Let me tell you...There was definitely many couch fires that night..:cheers:


:lol: Yeah, I remember that one.

The only thing soccer that Jim Rome likes is Alexi Lalas.


----------



## carnifex2005

ElDudarinodotcom said:


> Jim Rome went to UCSB. He had one of the greatest quotes regarding UCSB in the NCAA basketball tournament this year
> 
> "But I will guarantee two things -- one, if they do win, kegs will be tapped and couches will be burned in isla vista. And two, if they lose, kegs will be tapped and couches will be burned in isla vista."
> 
> Let me tell you...There was definitely many couch fires that night..:cheers:


He was talking UCSB soccer all day when they won in 2006...






The funny thing about that vid is that the game was played in St. Louis so the students found some random soccer goal and threw it in the sea.


----------



## Commandant

GunnerJacket said:


> Top 20
> 
> 3,213 - Akron



Lee R. Jackson Soccer Field, Akron, Ohio


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

carnifex2005 said:


> He was talking UCSB soccer all day when they won in 2006...
> 
> The funny thing about that vid is that the game was played in St. Louis so the students found some random soccer goal and threw it in the sea.


Haha...I was in that crowd. We threw it off the cliff in Isla Vista. That whole town went wild when we won that championship. :lol:


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

^^ And that goal wasn't random. It was a goal taken off the field from the stadium.


----------



## hngcm

carnifex2005 said:


> He was talking UCSB soccer all day when they won in 2006...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The funny thing about that vid is that the game was played in St. Louis so the students found some random soccer goal and threw it in the sea.


lmao gotta love IV


----------



## slipperydog

New webcam up for Houston:

http://www.houstondynamo.com/stadiumwebcam


----------



## Spacecityroller

*HOUSTON-Dynamo Stadium (22,000)*

*Location:* Downtown Houston, East End 
*Groundbreaking:* February 5, 2011 
*Sched. Completion:* mid-2012 

*Suites:* 33 main suites located less than 10 rows from playing field 
2 party suites located in southeast corner 
*Club Capacity:* c. 1,100 
*Concourse Width:* 30 feet (avg.)

*Concession Stands:* Full service stands throughout stadium 
Local vendor booths in south end zone 
Restrooms In excess of current building codes 
Main Gates 4 main gates for fan entry/exit 
ADA Accessibility Stadium will meet all ADA regulations 
Main Video Board 25-ft x 40-ft LED high definition screen 
Broadcast Booths 7 (3 radio, 4 TV) 
Print Media Capacity 50 

Playing Surface Tifway 419 Bermuda grass 
c. 90,000 square feet 
able to accommodate soccer, football, rugby, lacrosse

Stage c. 5,000 square feet, located in south end zone
with demountable seats and full rigging grid on canopy 
Locker Rooms 1 Dynamo locker room 
4 multipurpose team locker rooms 

Site Size 12 acres (522,720 square feet) 
Building Size 340,000 square feet 
Highest Elevation 70 feet 
Exterior Skin 94,000 square feet of aluminum panels
Panels 50 percent open to improve air flow 
Structural Concrete 13,800 cubic yards 
Structural Steel 2,200 tons 
Site Concrete 3,200 cubic yards 
Canopies Extending 75 feet over east and west sidelines 
Stage Canopy Extending 125 feet over south end zone 
Sustainability Project will seek LEED registered certification.
Majority of construction waste to be diverted from landfills
by recycling steel, glass, concrete, masonry, drywall, cardboard,
and wood 

Partners Harris County
City of Houston
Harris County-Houston Sports Authority
Houston Dynamo 
Project Mgr. ICON Venue Group, Greenwood Village CO 
Construction Mgr. Manhattan Construction, Houston TX 
Architect Populous, Kansas City MO 
Landscape Architect Clark Condon, Houston TX 
Structural Engineer Walter P. Moore, Houston TX 
Civil Engineer WGA, Houston TX


----------



## Aka

"Soccer Stadiums of the USA"


----------



## Aka

Here's another one: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=647092


----------



## nyrmetros

vanbasten88 said:


> That is one sweet looking SSS, gonna be a bitch if they decide to re-brand one day as the Kansas City"somethings" as per other American sports, what with Sporting written on the seats:lol:


They would have been better off writing Kansas City in the seats,.... but oh man what an exterior !!


----------



## bing222

Nice stadium and photos


----------



## sweet-d

I like it next time I go to KC I''l try and go to a match.


----------



## eMKay

Too bad the mods don't think stadiums under 30,000 deserve their own threads, this will disappear soon


----------



## SIC

MS20 said:


> Holy crap. KC looked good through impression pics, but that is incredible. The exterior in particular is something I'm very fond of. Very ManUtd-esque with the glass panels. Its very heartening to see the continued progress of the MLS.


With each stadium, the permanency of MLS becomes more and more cemented. We won't see professional soccer disappear like the NASL did, even if somehow MLS failed (which is more and more unlikely everyday), a new league would be reborn in it's place, to fill up the commitment for these stadiums.
I'm glad that this place will be mostly sold-out, great to see soccer take root in the heartland to prove it's just a west coast-east coast sport.


----------



## MS20

SIC said:


> With each stadium, the permanency of MLS becomes more and more cemented. We won't see professional soccer disappear like the NASL did, even if somehow MLS failed (which is more and more unlikely everyday), a new league would be reborn in it's place, to fill up the commitment for these stadiums.
> I'm glad that this place will be mostly sold-out, great to see soccer take root in the heartland to prove it's just a west coast-east coast sport.


Agreed. Even though its still just below, any league averaging 20,000 is a resounding success. And I don't buy the argument that Americans won't go to watch a league that is perceived not to be the best - they already do in great numbers. More Germans go to watch football on average than in Spain and England, even if La Liga and EPL are perceived as being higher quality. I don't even feel it needs to be one of the top 4 sports (even though its almost inevitable that it will, its almost _too_ accessible for it not to), it just needs to provide a platform for Americans to watch live football, and for the national team to stay competitive. 

It will keep growing, but its already at a place where you can say its not going anywhere as you suggest. Sure, some teams might relocate in the future, but that's more a byproduct of closed leagues than anything else.


----------



## GunnerJacket

- Deleted by user -


----------



## PrevaricationComplex

del


----------



## weava

nyrmetros said:


> They would have been better off writing Kansas City in the seats,.... but oh man what an exterior !!


As a KC resident (not a soccer fan), I'm starting to get used to hearing the new name and I actually like it better than the old name now,KC used to be home of the Athletics(MLB) which is a similar name. Its a better name than our arena football team, the "command", now thats a gay name.


----------



## slipperydog

weava said:


> As a KC resident (not a soccer fan), I'm starting to get used to hearing the new name and I actually like it better than the old name now,KC used to be home of the Athletics(MLB) which is a similar name. Its a better name than our arena football team, the "command", now thats a gay name.


Thank you. :applause:

I've gotten tired of hearing of supposed KC "fans" who wouldn't even say the new name out loud as if "Wizards" was somehow untouchable. Ridiculous. Sporting KC is actually a pretty nice name.


----------



## hngcm

Not sure why I haven't mentioned it but...

Tijuana now has a first division soccer team since the Xolos have earned the sole promotion place. 

I'm sure thousands of people in the SD/LA area will want to see their teams beat up on the Xolos lol. 

I think the fans of the more popular teams (Chivas, America, etc) should outnumber the Xolos fans since for many it'll be the only chance to see their team in the region all year. 

I'm already determined to go to the eventual Chivas-Xolos game in Tijuana.


----------



## hubemx

PrevaricationComplex said:


> desertpunk said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Dick's Sporting Goods Park, Denver CO*
> 
> 
> Dick's Sporting Goods Park, Denver by SkylineScenes, on Flickr
> 
> 
> 
> How far is the stadium from downtown Denver? This as far as Frisco to downtown Dallas? THX
Click to expand...


----------



## hitmanhart

Any idea how the new whitecaps stadium in Vancouver is progressing?Is there a time frame to moving in?


----------



## Archbishop

That one is not up to date I believe. The current ones have been posted a few pages back. When I was in Houston for a Final Four, I was really impressed by how close the stadium is to downtown. It's a few blocks away from the convention center and is basically right downtown. Attendance should be very, very good when the stadium opens. Houston has always had a pretty good fanbase that doesn't get the praise it deserves.


----------



## BoulderGrad

hubemx said:


> PrevaricationComplex said:
> 
> 
> 
> How far is the stadium from downtown Denver? This as far as Frisco to downtown Dallas? THX
> 
> 
> 
> 9.9 miles from DT Denver.
> 
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...57,-104.938145&spn=0.085623,0.209255&t=h&z=13
> 
> Pizza Hut park is almost 30 miles from DT Dallas
> 
> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...6825,-96.782684&spn=0.37392,0.837021&t=h&z=11
Click to expand...


----------



## BoulderGrad

hitmanhart said:


> Any idea how the new whitecaps stadium in Vancouver is progressing?Is there a time frame to moving in?


Wecbam on BC place website. Cable structure complete, just starting to install the fabric roof.
http://www.bcplacestadium.com/index.php/construction.html

First game is October 2nd:
http://whitecapsfc.com/2011-schedule


----------



## hngcm

Maybe he meant the actual Whitecaps stadium on the waterfront?


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## You are to blame

http://sportingtimes.net/articles/livestrong-sporting-park-home-of-sporting-kansas-city/


----------



## jackass94

I meant the kind of arenas that look like giant gyms where you can't feel the atmosphere because of conglomeration of metal structures, big heavy roofs, etc.

On the other hand, it's good to have such multi-use arenas that can bring money all the year round but football is the game where atmosphere is the most important thing by far


----------



## will101

It's good that AEG finally got enough tax money to build this, but as evidenced by the "WALD" photo, calling this downtown is a stretch. And I'm not quite sure why, but this looks really ugly to me.


----------



## desertpunk

will101 said:


> It's good that AEG finally got enough tax money to build this, but as evidenced by the "WALD" photo, calling this downtown is a stretch. And I'm not quite sure why, but this looks really ugly to me.


That shot was facing away from the CBD.


----------



## PrevaricationComplex

jackass94 said:


> I meant the kind of arenas that look like giant gyms where you can't feel the atmosphere because of conglomeration of metal structures, big heavy roofs, etc.
> 
> On the other hand, it's good to have such multi-use arenas that can bring money all the year round but football is the game where atmosphere is the most important thing by far


Still not making sense to us dude, sorry.



JJG said:


> ....what's "gym-looking"?
> 
> I think it's a pretty good and different design (as far as soccer stadiums in this country goes) but I'd wish they would have gone with the architecture of their surroundings.


Is the vernacular here much to sing home about though? Not having a go, just that sometimes a clean break can lift the surrounds. BTW I'm only going off the photos so could be completely wrong...


----------



## MS20

The designs for SSS in MLS are getting better and better with every new stadium.


----------



## will101

desertpunk said:


> That shot was facing away from the CBD.


I know; I checked it out on google earth before posting. I wouldn't have had any trouble with a description of this being in the proximity of, or adjacent to, downtown. But the fact is that in all four directions from the site you can see vacant lots and single-story buildings. This may be a semantic point, but to me this is outside of downtown.


----------



## MS20

^That shot to me looks like the city-centre is only a few kilometres away. A majority of European football stadiums are located with 2-10kms of the city centre. Seems perfect to me.


----------



## kanye

only 30,000 stadiums got their own thread...


----------



## BoulderGrad

MS20 said:


> ^That shot to me looks like the city-centre is only a few kilometres away. A majority of European football stadiums are located with 2-10kms of the city centre. Seems perfect to me.


Not even a few. The downtown core is a couple blocks across the freeway. Maybe only 1/2 mile.


----------



## GunnerJacket

desertpunk said:


>


Random reactions:
- I'm not thrilled with the end-line roof covering only the goal box (ie: the stage). It'd be nice if they at least completed the whole end.

- Is the exterior basically a metal screen of sorts? My fear is that the pictures make it appear a cheap means of masking the interior structural work, and that perhaps there's less character to be had "behind the curtain." Hopefully I'm wrong with this guess.

- Given the amorphic shape to the exterior shell I wonder if the roof should have been given an equally dynamic form? Makes me think they should switch roofs with Colorado or something.


Overall, though, I'm pleased for Houston and MLS. The more teams have their own first-rate grounds the better. Congrats, Dynamo fans!


----------



## GunnerJacket

MS20 said:


> ^That shot to me looks like the city-centre is only a few kilometres away. A majority of European football stadiums are located with 2-10kms of the city centre. Seems perfect to me.


This would be more effective in the US if more people lived in/near the city centers. In many cities downtown is more a business district with a limited residential base. We're making progress on this front but much work remains to craft more 24/7 cultural destinations.


----------



## JJG

PrevaricationComplex said:


> Still not making sense to us dude, sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> Is the vernacular here much to sing home about though? Not having a go, just that sometimes a clean break can lift the surrounds. BTW I'm only going off the photos so could be completely wrong...


Well, I've actually been to that part of downtown, and in this case, I guess it's best for this to be different. I'm just used to seeing downtown arenas or stadiums fitting in with the rest of the neighborhood, ya know? But I know the development will come, so there's no need to worry about that.

As for the roof, I say that it either has to be a full/retractable roof or no roof at all. For those of you who have been to Houston in the summer, you know why.

This is GREAT for the Dynamo and a major step up for Texas Southern Univ (who doesn't even have a REAL stadium, right?)


----------



## diablo234

I already posted this in the Houston Development forum but here is the latest update on the new Houston Dynamo stadium now under construction. 










You can actually see some of the new construction updates on the stadium here.

http://www.houstondynamo.com/stadium-construction-photos


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Philadelphia Union have 3 phase plan to expand PPL Park to 30K capacity.


----------



## westsidebomber

ElDudarinodotcom said:


> No cup holders? Seems like a mistake :cheers:


FWIW I was in the park yesterday and they have attached cup holders to every seat.


----------



## GunnerJacket

ElVoltageDR said:


> Philadelphia Union have 3 phase plan to expand PPL Park to 30K capacity.


Intriguing. I hope they don't jump too soon and begin to impact the atmosphere. The idea of a smaller first expansion from 18.5 to 20 is pretty good, though I understand everyone's concerns about that action closing off the views to the river: Raising the open end to the same height as the side tiers would leave the bridge visible but not necessarily the river and any passing boats. Tough call, here.

I also agree with one poster's reaction to the article in that it sounds like a ploy to appease Villanova's lingering interest in playing US football at PPL Park, which I hope doesn't come to pass. The club appears to be a model club for MLS thus far so I pray they retain their direction and not get distracted with outside influences.

All that being said, it would be great to see some 27k fans regularly filling in a PPL horseshoe! Great potential here with these fans and that venue.


----------



## MS20

You know football is going places as long as you see the obligatory "Soccer sucks" comment in pieces like that; they don't even feel the need to qualify why it sucks anymore, it just does! 

Good read btw.


----------



## Archbishop

MS20 said:


> ^That shot to me looks like the city-centre is only a few kilometres away. A majority of European football stadiums are located with 2-10kms of the city centre. Seems perfect to me.


It's really close. The building with the red pipe-things on top of it is the Convention Center which is right between the Toyota Center and Minute Maid Park. It's a great location. I was in Houston for the Final Four and it was closer than I thought it was. It's an excellent location.


----------



## carnifex2005

The owners of the Silverdome have officially submitted a bid for a MLS expansion team.

From the article...

Quote:
_To achieve a reasonable stadium size, the Apostolopoulos family plans to remove the dome and divide the stadium into three sections. At the stadium's ground level, will be a concert hall and a multi-purpose arena, capable of hosting hockey, basketball, and other indoor sports.
Resting on top of those two indoor facilities, will be a roughly 30,000-seat soccer stadium with natural grass. The current upper deck will essentially act as a lower bowl for the outdoor stadium.

The renovation, which is the brain child of Steve's father Andreas, who owns Triple Properties, the parent company, is unlike anything in the history of sports and they are anxious to show it off.
"We have the renderings nearly complete and I can't wait for fans to see what this stadium will look like," said Apostolopoulos. "MLS has been amazed with the plans we've shown them."_


----------



## Scba

Er...good luck with that.


----------



## kerouac1848

Jesus, cheap isn't synonymous with bad. A £5 t-shirt can look cheap and good...

What's the deal with some getting all prickly and feel they have to have a pop at English grounds? No one's even claimed they're amazing: if anything most bemoan their blandness and small size. Comparing 18 teams in the MLS to 92-pro clubs in England is kinda misleading as well. You also forget planning, generally, is far more restrictive in the UK and our local authorities have no-where near the level of fiscal autonomy (and hence revenues) or political power that equivalents do in the US, meaning that public bodies can't often provide financial support. Bar London none of our proper cities even have mayors (and even his power is massively diluted). All this has an impact.


----------



## GunnerJacket

hngcm said:


> Any expansion plans for any already built stadiums?


Most of the 2nd generation facilities built for MLS teams can be expanded fairly easily, and that's another reason many were built in more suburban locations where they could assume a site large enough to accomodate such. However, I don't foresee any teams expanding soon for fear of disturbing the critical mass of season ticket sales they're producing right now. Best to let everything gel for a while and maybe pursue some small, incremental moves while allowing the interest and support to grow.

A league average of 18k per game with much higher volume of sell-outs or near sell-outs would be fantastic for MLS.



slipperydog said:


> Philadelphia just announced they are planning to expand PPL in the next few years.


They're assessing options in part to see if they could accommodate Villanova's interest in a 30k facility, but the club has said it's own interests would be little more than a 1,500 seat addition to one end, similar to what Toronto did over a year ago.



mattec said:


> Do you believe the US should have a national stadium?


US soccer culture is neither homogenous enough nor large enough to make this truly work. Places like Columbus and Kansas City have appeared more pro-US because they're comparably thin on latino populations, but those markets also won't adequately sell US soccer to the nation. 

The current model is fine for both building the brand and maximizing revenues. Use these smaller venues for games against smaller opponents and possibly vs Mexico for WC qualifiers. But other friendlies and select matches should also be in places like NYC, DC, Chicago, etc where we still want to galvanize the fan base and promote the game.

It may take 3-4 generations, but I believe there will be a day when the US and Mexico will meet in a larger US city and the crowd will be majority pro-US. The problems for US soccer right now aren't stadium related but rather coaching and youth development, which will both improve as MLS provides better bona fide professional opportunities for US coaches and players.


----------



## massp88

America is way too big to have just one national stadium. 

Besides, what does it say to the world that a country like ours has a small 18,000 seat stadium, in Kansas City of all places, as our national stadium?


----------



## Otto Racecar

I don't believe that the us needs a national stadium and this is coming from someone in columbus who has been to all of the us games at crew stadium.The us is too large of a country to have a dedicated stadium in one city if they want to keep growing their game and interest in the national team. 20000 to 25000 is also way too small for a national stadium. So lets say we have a friendly with spain. Is a 20000 seat stadium really going to cut it? We will have a dominant us crowd in a stadium that seats 60 to 70 thousand. Yes KC and columbus are great for games with mexico where we can take the mexicans out of their element and have a small but loud overwhelming majority of supporters. That's a great thing about the us, we have tons of options! Not having a nationals stadium gives flexibility. We can play the mexicans in columbus during the winter in front of 24000 or we can play in front of 95000 in an enclosed stadium if we want.


----------



## Commandant

Did Atlanta cancel the expansion of Silverback Park? Or are they waiting for an MLS team to add the rest of the seats? This is what the stadium looks like now:










The finished product:









I know there was a flood in 2009 that stalled the development but there has been no progress...


----------



## hngcm

I don't think the flooding would have damaged it too bad. 

Qualcomm Stadium was flooded like that for a day and it held a game just fine the next night lol.


----------



## LCIII

Just because the numbers mattec posted with his stadium lists are a little misleading, here is actual attendance figures up to this point in the MLS 2011 season:


Season Totals

Team	Home Games	2011 Avg	2010 Avg	% Change
Seattle Sounders	7	36297	36173	0.34%
LA Galaxy	8	22206	21437	3.59%
Vancouver Whitecaps	7	20132	N/A	N/A
Sporting KC	1	19925	10287	93.69%
Toronto FC	9	19665	20453	-3.85%
Portland Timbers	7	18627	N/A	N/A
New York Red Bulls	8	18204	18441	-1.29%
Philadelphia Union	7	18189	19254	-5.53%
Houston Dynamo	8	17606	17310	1.71%
Real Salt Lake	6	16089	17095	-5.88%
DC United	6	16024	14532	10.27%
Chivas USA	7	15917	14576	9.20%
Colorado Rapids	7	13684	13329	2.66%
Chicago Fire	6	13380	15814	-15.39%
FC Dallas	9	12990	10815	20.11%
New England Revolution	7	12449	12987	-4.14%
Columbus Crew	7	10447	14642	-28.65%
San Jose Earthquakes	7	9772	9659	1.17%
League Avg	124	17311	16675	3.81%
*


----------



## mattec

LCIII said:


> Just because the numbers mattec posted with his stadium lists are a little misleading, here is actual attendance figures up to this point in the MLS 2011 season:
> 
> 
> Season Totals
> 
> Team	Home Games	2011 Avg	2010 Avg	% Change
> Seattle Sounders	7	36297	36173	0.34%
> LA Galaxy	8	22206	21437	3.59%
> Vancouver Whitecaps	7	20132	N/A	N/A
> Sporting KC	1	19925	10287	93.69%
> Toronto FC	9	19665	20453	-3.85%
> Portland Timbers	7	18627	N/A	N/A
> New York Red Bulls	8 18204	18441	-1.29%
> Philadelphia Union	7	18189	19254	-5.53%
> Houston Dynamo	8	17606	17310	1.71%
> Real Salt Lake	6	16089	17095	-5.88%
> DC United	6	16024	14532	10.27%
> Chivas USA	7	15917	14576	9.20%
> Colorado Rapids	7	13684	13329	2.66%
> Chicago Fire	6	13380	15814	-15.39%
> FC Dallas	9	12990	10815	20.11%
> New England Revolution	7	12449	12987	-4.14%
> Columbus Crew	7	10447	14642	-28.65%
> San Jose Earthquakes	7	9772	9659	1.17%
> League Avg	124	17311	16675	3.81%
> *


I just posted the seating capacities listed on Wikipedia.


----------



## mattec

Commandant said:


> Did Atlanta cancel the expansion of Silverback Park? Or are they waiting for an MLS team to add the rest of the seats? This is what the stadium looks like now:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The finished product:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know there was a flood in 2009 that stalled the development but there has been no progress...


Even with the renovation, it still looks a bit low end for the MLS


----------



## GOOT

kerouac1848 said:


> What's the deal with some getting all prickly and feel they have to have a pop at English grounds?




It's just the inferiority complex that soccer fans in the US have unfortunately.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Commandant said:


> Did Atlanta cancel the expansion of Silverback Park? Or are they waiting for an MLS team to add the rest of the seats?


The proposal was merely that, a whimsy of the owners should the team have the need for something comparable to PaeTec park in Rochester. I don't even think the design was actually conceived beyond the one poorly done sketch you've posted here. It definitely wasn't tied to MLS acceptance, per se, but it was only a vision for when the need (and money) was there. Based on the games I've been too, there's no need for anything more right now, and a whole lot of second guessing that even if the need was there that the location of the venue is woefully inadequate for 15k plus people. I think they could add the end line seating and formally wall-in the stadium to make it very nice for about 8k or so, but anything larger would be a traffic nightmare.

I'm not even sure if the 'backs owners ever seriously spoke with MLS. I know the league has met with Falcons owner Arthur Blank (or at least his people), but not sure about any other earnest Atlanta investigations. Most recent daydreams about Atlanta in the MLS suggest expanding the new Kennesaw State venue that currently hosts the Atlanta Beat of the Women's Professional Soccer league. Much farther north and more removed from the urban ethnic communities, but a much nicer venue and in-line with MLS' old-school "appeal to the families" ethos.


----------



## arnau_Vic

cool stadium


----------



## LCIII

Mattec - I know that's what you did. I just didn't like how you made a distinction between total capacity and MLS capacity for Seattle but not for some of the other stadiums like New England who come nowhere near the figure you associated with their stadium. I just think the figures are misleading on those grounds. The actual ticket sales tell a differe t story so I wanted to post that.

Also, you'll notice the number you posted for Seattle is apparently outdated as it's below what we average in attendance. 

No hard feelings or anything.


----------



## mattec

LCIII said:


> Mattec - I know that's what you did. I just didn't like how you made a distinction between total capacity and MLS capacity for Seattle but not for some of the other stadiums like New England who come nowhere near the figure you associated with their stadium. I just think the figures are misleading on those grounds. The actual ticket sales tell a differe t story so I wanted to post that.
> 
> Also, you'll notice the number you posted for Seattle is apparently outdated as it's below what we average in attendance.
> 
> No hard feelings or anything.


Seattle actually defines their capacity with those tarps and what not, while the Revs don't. 

But I see what you're saying... Stadium capacity alone does not paint a full picture.


----------



## Commandant

GunnerJacket said:


> The proposal was merely that, a whimsy of the owners should the team have the need for something comparable to PaeTec park in Rochester. I don't even think the design was actually conceived beyond the one poorly done sketch you've posted here. It definitely wasn't tied to MLS acceptance, per se, but it was only a vision for when the need (and money) was there. Based on the games I've been too, there's no need for anything more right now, and a whole lot of second guessing that even if the need was there that the location of the venue is woefully inadequate for 15k plus people. I think they could add the end line seating and formally wall-in the stadium to make it very nice for about 8k or so, but anything larger would be a traffic nightmare.
> 
> I'm not even sure if the 'backs owners ever seriously spoke with MLS. I know the league has met with Falcons owner Arthur Blank (or at least his people), but not sure about any other earnest Atlanta investigations. Most recent daydreams about Atlanta in the MLS suggest expanding the new Kennesaw State venue that currently hosts the Atlanta Beat of the Women's Professional Soccer league. Much farther north and more removed from the urban ethnic communities, but a much nicer venue and in-line with MLS' old-school "appeal to the families" ethos.


Thanks for the info :cheers:


----------



## LCIII

mattec said:


> Seattle actually defines their capacity with those tarps and what not, while the Revs don't.
> 
> But I see what you're saying... Stadium capacity alone does not paint a full picture.


Do the Revs make every seat available for purchase? Surely they don't.


----------



## massp88

LCIII said:


> Do the Revs make every seat available for purchase? Surely they don't.


Only the lower bowl and the club seats are available for purchase. Unless of course they are playing an exhibition against a club that will actually draw fans, like their upcoming fixture with Manchester. I would bet that they will sell over 40,000 tickets to the match.


----------



## ElVoltageDR

Edit: nvm.


----------



## GOOT

massp88 said:


> I would bet that they will sell over 40,000 tickets to the match.




They will likely get close to a sell out. They nearly sold USA-Spain a few weeks ago.


----------



## SIC

bigbossman said:


> Some cheap looking stadiums in MLS, particularly Toronto, Dallas, Chicago and Columbus.


I agree with the Columbus bit, because it was a cheap stadium. BMO was also built very cheaply, it's cheaper built than other SSS except Crew stadium.

But Toyota Park and PHP are lightyears ahead of Columbus. the only difference between them and Red Bull Arena is a wrap-around 2nd tier and a roof. But the lower seating bowl and concourse are very similar, almost exactly the same. They were designed by the same firms and architects. I've been to all 5 stadiums I've mentioned in person and took a good look at them (obviously I'm interested in stadium architecture, I post here). 

But basically, Red Bull Arena, Rio Tinto, DSG, Toyota Park, PHP and Home Depot Center we're built in the same style. All except Red Bull Arena are not finished but they are all planned to have a complete bowl and a complete wrap-around second tier with a roof on all four sides.

But due to current demand and budgets, they were left with gaps or with tiers and stands missing. Kinda how this occurred in England/Europe/South America in various stadiums. For example, River Plate's stadium used to be a horseshoe shape before they completed the bowl. This is common with College football stadiums in the US.

Anyway, Dallas is the most barebone of this model. Just a horseshoe shaped bowl with no roof on any tier. 









Toyota Park/Rio Tinto/DSG also have a horseshoe but they a 2nd tier across from the main stand that has luxury boxes and the two main stands are covered.


















In the long term, these stadiums are planned to complete their bowl and expand their 2nd tier to wrap around the stadium. For a capacity of 25-27k.

Which would look like...hold on...like this little beaut.









But anyway, if you're standing on the concourse of Toyota Park, you have the same amenities and views than you get at Red Bull Arena. On the other hand, if you're in Crew Stadium....you can see how the how thing is one giant erector set... it's just steel and aluminum bolted together. It's basically a temporary stadium that they made permanent. They're no individual seats, just benches.
Theres nothing underneath the stands just trash and maze of steel beams. You ever go to an old stadium with a wooden grandstand..it's just like that. 









That said, it has a character and charm of it's own and without crew stadium showing other MLS teams that owning your stadium was the way. There would not be a Red Bull Arena or HDC and etc.
Just 11-10 years ago, Crew stadium was the envy of every other MLS team and fan. Now we kinda look down on it for not being "showy enough"


----------



## JYDA

If I remember correctly the drawings for the Dallas Stadium were scaled down from their original drawings.


----------



## ryebreadraz

JYDA said:


> If I remember correctly the drawings for the Dallas Stadium were scaled down from their original drawings.


They were to a degree. The original plan had more money allocated to more seats and roof, but they scrapped some of that to allocate more money to luxury seating, concessions and exterior architecture. They kept the same budget of the original plan, just spent to improve some aspects while nixing others.


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

Is there some list for minimum requirement for MLS stadium (overall capacity, VIP capacity, number of locker rooms, TV studios.. etc.)?


----------



## mattec

SpicyMcHaggis said:


> Is there some list for minimum requirement for MLS stadium (overall capacity, VIP capacity, number of locker rooms, TV studios.. etc.)?


I don't think one exists, at least publicly..


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

How does an stadium get approved then? Is there some stadium licensing process like in Europe or is that all done when club is being accepted into the league?


----------



## ryebreadraz

SpicyMcHaggis said:


> How does an stadium get approved then? Is there some stadium licensing process like in Europe or is that all done when club is being accepted into the league?


There isn't a specific list laid out, but any stadium that is used as a home stadium has to be approved by the league so when teams put together stadium plans they will submit them to the league to ensure that they will be approved.


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

Thanks for the answer!

Just one more question.. can the league withdraw that approval (after team has been competing in the league for years) and demand from club to switch or fix the stadium to be up to standards again?


----------



## mattec

SpicyMcHaggis said:


> Thanks for the answer!
> 
> Just one more question.. can the league withdraw that approval (after team has been competing in the league for years) and demand from club to switch or fix the stadium to be up to standards again?


I don't think that happens. The closest thing to that is the league encouraging teams to get a SSS or into an economically viable stadium. But I don't think they can or will force a team to move.


----------



## hngcm

What happened to the San Jose Earthquakes when they moved to Houston then?


----------



## mattec

hngcm said:


> What happened to the San Jose Earthquakes when they moved to Houston then?


That was because they could not get their own stadium, I was talking about after a team got their own stadium and after a while the freshness of it started to wain. 

Also, San Jose didn't move, the players and such were shipped to the expansion team in Houston and the Quakes were put into hiatus and restarted a few years later.


----------



## GunnerJacket

SpicyMcHaggis said:


> Is there some list for minimum requirement for MLS stadium (overall capacity, VIP capacity, number of locker rooms, TV studios.. etc.)?


Like Rye said, MLS has a very limited criteria required for venues, largely based on the needs for the locker rooms, broadcast facilities and medical amenities. They may wish for standards in capacity, quality, etc., but at this point are in no position to exact such standards. Nor is there a correlating demand from CONCACAF the way you see with UEFA. Bottom line, MLS simply wants something that a) meets local building codes, b) can be a funcational public stadium for soccer, and c) that you as the club own or have a viable contract for renting.




SpicyMcHaggis said:


> can the league withdraw that approval (after team has been competing in the league for years) and demand from club to switch or fix the stadium to be up to standards again?


The only areas where MLS could hold such sway would be if the venue were unsafe, in which case you're really talking about local building code concerns anyway, or if the facility saw functional decreases in the amenities for broadcasting, on-site medical, etc. They won't fault, say, Colorado for keeping a smaller venue if everyone else has surpassed 20k capacity, or get on Dallas for not having a roof. And they won't bother telling New England or DC their current venues are too large because the owners already know this and are simply going to do what's best for them. So, again, the league doesn't have much official say in this matter but they are aggressively pointing out the success stories with the nicer venues and are strongly encouraging everyone to follow the trend.

All carrot and no stick, as it were.


----------



## Pavlov's Dog

Thierry Henry had this to say after yesterday's match in Portland.



> On atmosphere at JELD-WEN Field:
> "I've played in a lot of stadiums before. It was a great atmosphere playing at Barcelona, playing at Arsenal, playing some big games in the World Cup, but I have to say the fans are amazing. Credit to them, they are amazing – they didn't stop singing, they were there an hour before the game outside singing. Wow. Amazing."


----------



## nyrmetros

Pavlov's Dog said:


> Thierry Henry had this to say after yesterday's match in Portland.


 cool


----------



## KingNick

Pavlov's Dog said:


> Thierry Henry had this to say after yesterday's match in Portland.


Barcelona and Arsenal? Okay...

Still great to see those guys show so much passion about this sport! kay:

Any footage?


----------



## ryebreadraz

KingNick said:


> Barcelona and Arsenal? Okay...
> 
> Still great to see those guys show so much passion about this sport! kay:
> 
> Any footage?


Here are match highlights:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/videos?catid=1822&id=16099


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

Barcelona's and Arsenal's grounds are more silent than theaters... so Portland fans may take that as an insult


----------



## KingNick

ryebreadraz said:


> Here are match highlights:
> 
> http://www.mlssoccer.com/videos?catid=1822&id=16099


Video only works with Mircosoft Silverlight... What the hell is Silverlight?


----------



## hngcm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnbG1DromgI


----------



## SIC

http://youtu.be/fDRraf2NCH4

Oh and MLS exist outside Seattle and Portland.

This is my team (chicago fire)and it's fans in our nearest rival's stadium and embarrassing their home support in comparison. Away end Tifo, volume, numbers and etc.

http://youtu.be/kRexPbBLusQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peSkSxn-Icg

Good times. too bad I had to work or I would have been there. Away trips are my favorite.


----------



## mattec

KingNick said:


> Video only works with Mircosoft Silverlight... What the hell is Silverlight?


Microsoft Silverlight is a free web-browser plug-in that enables interactive media experiences, rich business applications and immersive mobile apps.

Windows? Check. Mac? Check. Linux? Check. Silverlight works on all major OS's plus all major browsers, including Firefox, Google Chrome, Safari, and yes, Internet Explorer.


http://www.microsoft.com/silverlight/


----------



## will101

mattec said:


> Microsoft Silverlight is a free web-browser plug-in that enables interactive media experiences, rich business applications and immersive mobile apps.
> 
> Windows? Check. Mac? Check. Linux? Check. Silverlight works on all major OS's plus all major browsers, including Firefox, Google Chrome, Safari, and yes, Internet Explorer.
> 
> http://www.microsoft.com/silverlight/


But it has to be an Intel Mac. I ran into that roadblock when discussing political redistricting on another forum. There is online software (called _Dave's Redistricting Application_) that requires it. So to use it I have to borrow one of the roommate's laptop.


----------



## KingNick

hngcm said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnbG1DromgI


Good game with a pretty decent crowd in the back.


----------



## will101

hngcm said:


> What happened to the San Jose Earthquakes when they moved to Houston then?


AEG owned several MLS franchises back then, and basically when they said "Jump!" MLS asked "How high?" while on the way up. One of the franchises that they owned were the Quakes, but AEG was having trouble getting its way to build a new stadium. (They do _not_ like the idea of local zoning laws.) So we were given an ultimatum: one year to either start building a new soccer-only stadium at the taxpayer's expense, or find local ownership. The taxpayer-funded stadium was not going to happen, and no one wanted to pay AEG's inflated price for the franchise, so they took the Quakes and moved them to the one major city with *no* zoning laws: Houston. At this point I would not shed a tear if the AEG management was kidnapped and tortured by terrorists.


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

> SJ scouting more than opposition at new SKC stadium
> 
> Quakes send delegation from Front Office to tour LIVESTRONG Sporting Park
> 
> They won’t be jotting down notes in their journals while testing Jimmy Nielsen or tracking Teal Bunbury, but the San Jose Earthquakes will pay close attention to the off-the-pitch amenities as they visit Sporting Kansas City at their brand-new LIVESTRONG Sporting Park on Friday evening (8:30 pm ET, Fox Soccer).
> 
> If the Quakes players want anything special built into the franchise’s new stadium, now is the time to ask for it. The shuttered manufacturing facility that occupied the prospective site for San Jose’s new park has been razed. Construction has not yet begun, but that lull won’t last forever.
> 
> “From what we’ve seen and heard from everyone who’s experienced it, it’s just another level,” Quakes defender Jason Hernandez said of Kansas City’s nine-figure home. “Every player would love to have that as their home. And with us being in the development stages of our stadium, it’d be great to go there and see what they’ve brought to the table and if we can take little bits and pieces and incorporate that into what we’re doing here. I’m sure that we would all welcome that.”
> 
> For the Quakes, Friday represents another chance to make their mark in one of the league’s top-dollar soccer-specific stadiums. In 2010, San Jose closed the inaugural year of Red Bull Arena by defeating New York 3-1 and knocking the top-seeded Red Bulls out of the playoffs, 3-2 on aggregate.
> 
> A win might have to serve as a consolation prize, since the Quakes don’t have the kind of budget that went into construction at RBA and LSP.
> 
> “We’ve got our own plans,” Earthquakes coach Frank Yallop said. “Between myself, John [Doyle, GM] and [team president] Dave Kaval, we’ll figure out what we need and what we can put in there and go from there. We just want a decent surface, some seats to sit on for the fans and then a decent locker room.”
> 
> Despite playing in a college facility — Buck Shaw Stadium, on the campus of Santa Clara University — the Quakes have still managed to create a difficult environment for visitors to navigate with the help of their vociferous supporters’ sections.
> 
> However, with their present venue barely accomodating above 10,000 fans, the Quakes could unquestionably crank the volume up louder in a new stadium with a larger capacity crowd — much like the crowd they expect to face this evening.
> 
> “I think that the atmosphere created by the fans at Buck Shaw says a lot, as far as being able to do that at a renovated college [stadium],” Hernandez said. “I think you see from teams around the league, when they do bring a stadium into the fold, it creates this excitement and makes the fans that much more passionate. They want to come out. Not even the avid soccer fan, but the casual fan is going to come out and want to experience that.”


http://www.sjearthquakes.com/news/2011/06/sj-scouting-more-opposition-new-skc-stadium


----------



## ryebreadraz

That's funny. The Earthquakes are looking at the most expensive, best and most detailed stadium in the league for ideas on how to build their erector set, no frills, minimalist, cheap stadium.


----------



## BoulderGrad

ryebreadraz said:


> That's funny. The Earthquakes are looking at the most expensive, best and most detailed stadium in the league for ideas on how to build their erector set, no frills, minimalist, cheap stadium.


Most expensive? How much did Livestrong run? I thought RBA was pushing the scales?

Also, as far as I know, there are no final plans released at the moment. An incorrect rumor started that they might be doing a cheapy high school style stadium, as well as the old renders, but those are far from final. We really have little idea what it will look like. Could go either way at this point.


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

BoulderGrad said:


> Most expensive? How much did Livestrong run? I thought RBA was pushing the scales?
> 
> Also, as far as I know, there are no final plans released at the moment. An incorrect rumor started that they might be doing a cheapy high school style stadium, as well as the old renders, but those are far from final. We really have little idea what it will look like. Could go either way at this point.


Both Livestrong and RBA cost about $200 million in construction costs. They are currently estimating the cost of the new Earthquakes stadium at around $40-$60 million. Hardly "cheapy high school style" but it will definitely not have the amenities of Livestrong or RBA.


----------



## krudmonk

ryebreadraz said:


> erector set, no frills, minimalist, cheap stadium.


All you're basing this on are renderings from late 2009.


----------



## nyrmetros

As long as it's better than Crew stadium it'll be fine.


----------



## LCIII

I was at the Sounders game that set the new attendance record for MLS for just over 46k. The madness is growing in Seattle and in one years time we'll break that number again.


----------



## Pavlov's Dog

LCIII said:


> I was at the Sounders game that set the new attendance record for MLS for just over 46k. The madness is growing in Seattle and in one years time we'll break that number again.


Is there a plan for which parts of the stadium they will open up to increase capacity. For pricing reasons I can see why they want to limit ticket availability but at some point they'll have the fortunate problem of opening up new areas of the stadium.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Pavlov's Dog said:


> Is there a plan for which parts of the stadium they will open up to increase capacity. For pricing reasons I can see why they want to limit ticket availability but at some point they'll have the fortunate problem of opening up new areas of the stadium.


They seemed to open the full upper deck for the redbulls game, but it seemed pretty empty. It seems the next logical spot would be the hawks nest which bumps it up to 40k (last I read). Next would be 1 full side of the upper deck At 67,000 total capacity - 40,000 for whats already available/2 is 13,500 more seats, so you're up to 53,500, then the other side and you're selling 67,000 seats for every game and your name is now amongst some of the most popular soccer teams in the world.


----------



## ryebreadraz

The match last Thursday was only opened up because it was sold as part of three-pack deal with the Manchester United friendly as well. The Hawks Nest won't be opened up as long as the Sounders' deal with Microsoft is still going because the advertising on the tarps over the Hawks Nest is part of the contract. I'd still like to know what MLS record they broke on Thursday though. I heard them saying that over and over, but have no idea what record they broke.


----------



## Commandant

> *San Diego Boca FC Posts Petition for a Soccer Specific Stadium in San Diego County*
> 
> AN DIEGO, May 18 – San Diego Boca FC today officially announced that it has posted a petition on their website, www.sdboca.com, for local residents to support the construction of a professional soccer specific stadium within walking distance of bus and trolley stations serving the San Diego Region for the 2012/13 Soccer Season. San Diego Boca FC President and General Manager, Yan Skwara said, "Our organization recognizes the opportunity to promote the cause of providing professional soccer to San Diego County. The popularity of the sport in this region is remarkable, and is currently supported by over 15,000 registered soccer league players. Our next step in moving in the proper direction is to design and build a FIFA regulation soccer specific facility designed for hosting professional soccer matches and youth soccer player development. Too often, professional soccer in the United States is played on fields that are designed for football and other sports, which takes away from the game significantly, both on the playing side and from the fans' entertainment perspective. We have retained Shapouri & Associates, a leading Engineering and Site Planning firm, to assist with everything from identifying and negotiating the proper location, to site planning for the soccer facility itself. Our vision is a facility that is small and intimate, that can prove out over time and be expandable to higher seating capacity in the future for up to a minimum 18,500 capacity." Shapouri & Associates CEO, Ali Shapouri stated, "We are excited to be working with San Diego Boca FC as their vision and business model is right on the dime. This is a community-based facility that has some positive environmental aspects tied to it as well. Soccer is a natural sport for this region as we have made significant progress over the past few months to making this soccer specific facility a reality. I am convinced that the community needs to support this team and its mission to put professional soccer on the map in San Diego County." The United States has officially submitted its bid to host the FIFA World Cup when the tournament is played either in 2018 or 2022. The county of San Diego is in the mix as one of the host cities for competition. Major League Soccer initiated a program recently that requires any city seeking to host a professional soccer team to construct a soccer-specific stadium, or make significant renovations to existing facilities to deliver a more personal sporting experience. There are currently no structures that could be deemed suitable for such an endeavor in San Diego County, and it would require significant public support. To all of the true soccer fans, here is your chance to have your passion for the beautiful game be witnessed, and do your part in bringing the professional level of this sport to the county of San Diego. And to those less familiar fans, here is your opportunity to join in and experience the thrill and excitement of soccer.


http://www.sdboca.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1185:san-diego-boca-fc-posts-petition-for-a-soccer-specific-stadium-in-san-diego-county&catid=116ress-releases&Itemid=491


----------



## matthemod

That looks pretty sweet and South American like. What league are San Diego Boca in so at the moment?


----------



## GunnerJacket

Commandant said:


> san diego boca fc posts petition for a soccer specific stadium in san diego county


That's great, but I pray the club doesn't evolve into a satellite franchise for another club a la Chivas USA. (I got scared seeign the Boca Juniors symbols in the picture!) Right now the name is merely an homage to the famous Argentine club and their crest isn't an exact copy. I'd hate to think there's still the perception that more of a copy would be needed for this club to grow in San Diego.


----------



## LCIII

In a game that set the Sounders' attendance record for an MLS game at 46,505, Levesque headed in a corner from Leo Gonzalez to snap a tie in the 67th minute on Thursday, then knocked the ball away from goalkeeper Greg Sutton and into the open net in the 78th.
The crowd at CenturyLink Field, newly renamed from Qwest Field earlier on Thursday, was the largest for a stand-alone MLS game since 46,754 showed up in New York on July 19, 2008, for a Red Bulls game against the Los Angeles Galaxy.
Other big draws have been part of doubleheaders featuring an international matchup, too.
The larger crowd was there as part of a special ticket package that includes next month's exhibition against Manchester United.
Seattle has been the MLS attendance leader since joining the league in 2009, and came into Thursday averaging 36,297.
"Certainly, looking up and seeing the top deck uncovered was a good feeling," Schmid said, smiling. "Ownership tries to put pressure on me and winning games, so I'm going to put pressure on them and maybe one day, we can fill up the whole stadium and sell out every game."
Source:AP


----------



## hngcm

First we'll get (or not...) the Chargers stadium done then we'll deal with Boca's stadium. 

I doubt it'll go anywhere though, nobody even knows about the National Premier Soccer League (division 4 in US's soccer pyramid). 

Now maybe if they combine with the San Diego Flash and move up to at least the NASL they'll have a shot...


----------



## weava

I just had a random thought, will any MLS team ever move into a MLB stadium? With the A's possibly moving to San Jose to smaller stadium in the 30,000s it would make sense to partner with the MLS team there. or would a long island MLS team play at new shea stadium? 
I know all pro teams are going to want sport specific stadiums but I figured MLB and MLS crowd sizes are more comparable than the MLB and NFL which shared the 70s multisport stadiums that sucked but I figured with new technology and designs a new multisport stadium could be pulled off better.


----------



## hngcm

I've always thought that Petco Park would make a good MLS venue since the pitch fits the field pretty good imo.










Not sure if Citi Field fits a field that good


----------



## Commandant

^^ It doesn't...



Commandant said:


> Images from newyork.cbslocal.com


----------



## MS20

weava said:


> I just had a random thought, will any MLS team ever move into a MLB stadium? With the A's possibly moving to San Jose to smaller stadium in the 30,000s it would make sense to partner with the MLS team there. or would a long island MLS team play at new shea stadium?
> I know all pro teams are going to want sport specific stadiums but I figured MLB and MLS crowd sizes are more comparable than the MLB and NFL which shared the 70s multisport stadiums that sucked but I figured with new technology and designs a new multisport stadium could be pulled off better.


Looking at some of those pics Commandant posted, I'd say the answer would be a big "no". I don't know believe the MLS would shoot itself in the foot by accepting to play in a baseball stadium when they have been quite successful with the SSS's. There's a number of reason why DC United need to find a new home, not least that its a baseball stadium. 

But anyway all of its moot; as I said the current model of smaller stadia is working fine for the MLS, no need to tamper with that.


----------



## JJG

MS20 said:


> Looking at some of those pics Commandant posted, I'd say the answer would be a big "no". I don't know believe the MLS would shoot itself in the foot by accepting to play in a baseball stadium when they have been quite successful with the SSS's. There's a number of reason why DC United need to find a new home, not least that its a baseball stadium.
> 
> But anyway all of its moot; as I said the current model of smaller stadia is working fine for the MLS, no need to tamper with that.


...what if (and I know this is asking for ALOT, but) O.co Coliseum was remodeled to be an SSS? I know it would take _years_, but if a club set up shop if the A's (and I strongly believe the Raiders are goin' back to L.A.) left, it could be converted for soccer.


----------



## Benn

I tried sketching that out, a year or two ago; basically removing Mt Davis, replacing it with a small club section along that sideline and a large plaza behind, so the view to the mountains would be open again. Other than that the lower level would need some slight realigning and the third level would probably keep the tarps most of the time. It wouldn't be ideal in terms of sightlines, and would be a bit big for most MLS teams, but the infrastructure is there and it would be more than functional.


----------



## vanbasten88

Benn said:


> I tried sketching that out, a year or two ago; basically removing Mt Davis, replacing it with a small club section along that sideline and a large plaza behind, so the view to the mountains would be open again. Other than that the lower level would need some slight realigning and the third level would probably keep the tarps most of the time. It wouldn't be ideal in terms of sightlines, and would be a bit big for most MLS teams, but the infrastructure is there and it would be more than functional.


have you got those sketches handy/scanned?, sounds interesting.:cheers:


----------



## JJG

Benn said:


> I tried sketching that out, a year or two ago; basically removing Mt Davis, replacing it with a small club section along that sideline and a large plaza behind, so the view to the mountains would be open again. Other than that the lower level would need some slight realigning and the third level would probably keep the tarps most of the time. It wouldn't be ideal in terms of sightlines, and would be a bit big for most MLS teams, but the infrastructure is there and it would be more than functional.


Interesting. Because I was thinking of keeping Mt. Davis (well, half of it, anyway), reshaping the other sideline and removing the endzones... I would like to see it.


----------



## Benn

vanbasten88 said:


> have you got those sketches handy/scanned?, sounds interesting.:cheers:


I don't have anything scanned unfortunately, and don't have access to a good scanner at the moment. Maybe I can dig them up and photograph them...


----------



## Benn

That sounds like a lot more work, but the sightlines would be better. I have just always found Mt Davis to be so ugly i want to tear the whole thing down


----------



## slipperydog

San Jose Earthquakes will play NYRB at Stanford's football stadium tonight, an interesting move. For anyone interested in seeing it, it will be live on ESPN2.


----------



## ryebreadraz

slipperydog said:


> San Jose Earthquakes will play NYRB at Stanford's football stadium tonight, an interesting move. For anyone interested in seeing it, it will be live on ESPN2.


It's a fantastic stadium that is great for soccer. I really love it and wish there would be more soccer matches there, but Stanford isn't always the easiest to work with in terms of giving up control of the stadium for matches. I know it's twice kept the U.S. from playing there. 

It'll be fun seeing a match there tonight. Hopefully a good crowd shows up. With the Red Bulls getting closer to 100% with Gold Cup players back and the Earthquakes getting Wondolowski back, plus the big crowd, it should be a good one.


----------



## SJAnfield

ryebreadraz said:


> It's a fantastic stadium that is great for soccer. I really love it and wish there would be more soccer matches there, but Stanford isn't always the easiest to work with in terms of giving up control of the stadium for matches. I know it's twice kept the U.S. from playing there.
> 
> It'll be fun seeing a match there tonight. Hopefully a good crowd shows up. With the Red Bulls getting closer to 100% with Gold Cup players back and the Earthquakes getting Wondolowski back, plus the big crowd, it should be a good one.


As of Thursday they had sold 30,000 tickets. Should be a nice crowd.


----------



## Benn

I am still astounded Stanford got that built in a year for under $100 million, but I suppose they are smarter than the rest of us, gotta be the best bang for the buck for a stadium in a long time.


----------



## JYDA

How did the Quakes draw 41,000???


----------



## bd popeye

JYDA said:


> How did the Quakes draw 41,000???


There were fireworks after the game.



> http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_18384725?source=rss
> 
> Fireworks four times over
> By Ellen Huet
> Mercury News
> Posted: 06/30/2011 05:41:14 PM PDT
> Updated: 07/01/2011 02:24:35 PM PDT
> 
> Fireworks lovers, rejoice. The Fourth of July's fortuitous arrival on a Monday means that pyrotechnics and parties have an excuse to go four nights.
> 
> The first rockets' red glare will hit the skies Saturday -- from Stanford Stadium to Oakland's O.co Coliseum to Santa Clara's Great America. And the bombs keep bursting in air all the way until Tuesday, when the San Jose Giants light up the sky above Municipal Stadium.
> 
> "Fireworks are fun in a stadium -- people are all sitting together, and the 'ooh ahh' is very synchronized," said Jamie Pearson, who's planning to bring her kids and nine other people to the San Jose Giants game and fireworks.
> 
> Although it's been a few years since Stanford's Lively Arts put on its last fireworks show, the lights return to campus Saturday night following a San Jose Earthquakes game in Stanford Stadium. Even if you don't have a ticket, you can beat the system and pull up some lawn chairs in nearby parking lots and fields or across the street at Palo Alto High School for a free view.
> 
> Same goes for Saturday displays after the A's game or the fireworks at Great America -- fork over a bit to see them from inside, or bring some binoculars and a blanket and view from afar.


Oh yea the game was a 2-2 draw..

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_18384725?source=rss



> STANFORD, Calif. (AP)—Joel Lindpere scored his second goal in the 85th minute and the New York Red Bulls tied the San Jose Earthquakes 2-2 Saturday night.
> 
> San Jose went ahead on goals by Khari Stephenson, who equalized in the 37th minute when Red Bulls goalkeeper Bouna Coundoul couldn’t handle an inswinging corner, and Steven Lenhart.
> 
> The Earthquakes’ second goal came in the 68th minute when Lenhart was unmarked and converted Steven Beitashour’s long cross from the right wing.
> 
> New York went ahead early, when Lindpere initially whiffed on a cross, but had the ball bounce off defender Ramiro Corrales right to his feet, and he converted.
> 
> It was San Jose’s first game at Stanford in 12 years, and 41,028 attended.


----------



## JYDA

bd popeye said:


> There were fireworks after the game.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yea the game was a 2-2 draw..
> 
> http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_18384725?source=rss


Maybe they should have fireworks after every game


----------



## will101

Benn said:


> I am still astounded Stanford got that built in a year for under $100 million, but I suppose they are smarter than the rest of us, gotta be the best bang for the buck for a stadium in a long time.


Much of it was they already owned the land, there are no zoning laws to restrict them, and the infrastructure was already in place. The new design is extremely simple, and the only boxes are on one side above the press box. They are a private institution, exempt from many competitive bidding laws, and with a huge network of alumni to tap into.

And after typing all of that, it _still_ sounds like it should have cost $200 million or more.


----------



## will101

JYDA said:


> Maybe they should have fireworks after every game


Part of it is that Buck Shaw Stadium is a really lousy place to watch a game. If the new place is anything like a downsized Stanford Stadium, the Quakes should experience quite a jump in attendance.


----------



## ryebreadraz

will101 said:


> Much of it was they already owned the land, there are no zoning laws to restrict them, and the infrastructure was already in place. The new design is extremely simple, and the only boxes are on one side above the press box. They are a private institution, exempt from many competitive bidding laws, and with a huge network of alumni to tap into.
> 
> And after typing all of that, it _still_ sounds like it should have cost $200 million or more.


There's also the fact that they didn't really have to spend anything on foundation work, which costs a fortune. Building into the existing hill took care of that. With the proposed City of Industry Stadium they estimated that boxes on only one side and using the hill on one side saved them a couple hundred million dollars. Stanford's Stadium isn't nearly as big or opulent, but you can bet that they saved a TON of money by building into an existing hill and cutting out foundation costs.


----------



## Benn

will101 said:


> Much of it was they already owned the land, there are no zoning laws to restrict them, and the infrastructure was already in place. The new design is extremely simple, and the only boxes are on one side above the press box. They are a private institution, exempt from many competitive bidding laws, and with a huge network of alumni to tap into.
> 
> And after typing all of that, it _still_ sounds like it should have cost $200 million or more.


The other similarly sized major conference venue of the decade, TCF Bank stadium is almost exactly the same size in terms of capacity (though certainly bigger in terms of overall footprint of built space) also on university owned land, required by the state to take the lowest bid, came in at three times the cost (three years later, so minor inflation occured). Now TCF is certainly fancier and required new pilings, foundations ect, and seems very reasonable compared to pro venues in the same size range, but still a third of that cost for a very good looking 50,000 seater in Palo Alto. That is phenomenal.


----------



## Commandant

A little off-topic but does anyone know if Morrison Stadium in Omaha sells liquor at games?

Also, USF Corbett Soccer Stadium opens next month... Does anyone know if South Florida is willing to share the stadium w/ the Tampa Bay Rowdies (or whatever they are called)?









And what's the latest with this (Westport Soccer Stadium and Hotel, Baltimore)?



folsomfanatic said:


> ^^Here's the rendering for the soccer stadium in Westport.


----------



## Otto Racecar

It is doing well. One thing you have to keep in mind is that Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver were all 2nd division teams before they were "expansion" teams in the mls. They already had supporters groups and a following for years prior to the mls. Although this is not the only reason for the sucess it certainly comes into play.


----------



## eMKay

Otto Racecar said:


> It is doing well. One thing you have to keep in mind is that Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver were all 2nd division teams before they where "expansion" teams in the mls. They already had supporters groups and a following for years prior to the mls. Although this is not the only reason for the sucess it certainly comes into play.


yeah, I know and kudos to MLS for recognizing that fact and expanding into markets like that, unlike the NHL expanding by picking cities on the map.


----------



## Otto Racecar

I agree. Although after the upcoming Montreal expansion, I feel the Mls really needs to work to promote the growth of not only its league but the 2nd and 3rd tier leagues. If there is never going to be relegation in the us then I feel a minor league system similar to what is in baseball would be beneficial to pro soccer in general in US.


----------



## matthemod

Kind of like a "Feeder" or "Development" league. You can clearly see the benefit of having such a system as evidenced by the relative success in terms of attendances of Seattle, Vancouver and Portland. However money talks and if some megalomaniac entrepreneur wants to fund an entirely new team in say, Louisville KY, complete with SSS, the MLS wouldn't necessarily first force them to enter the NASL or USL and work their way up.

In my opinion a good 2nd tier and more interraction between the MLS is essential to a strong league, and to prevent the rapid over-expansion which plagued the original NASL.


----------



## LCIII

eMKay said:


> I'm watching that right now (DVR) I am just astounded by what I'm seeing.


It's pathetic on part of the MLS that they allow such a small field. MLS needs to ball up and create standards and then enforce them. 

That said, Portlands little stadium/atmosphere is cute. It's no Sounders home game but it's a cute smaller version. Soccer is definitely in the blood in the Northwest!


----------



## BoulderGrad

LCIII said:


> It's pathetic on part of the MLS that they allow such a small field. MLS needs to ball up and create standards and then enforce them.
> 
> That said, Portlands little stadium/atmosphere is cute. It's no Sounders home game but it's a cute smaller version. Soccer is definitely in the blood in the Northwest!


Funny, thats kindof how Seattle looks at Portland in general. Its such a cute little mini-me  (joking, don't flame me)


----------



## KingmanIII

LCIII said:


> That said, Portlands little stadium/atmosphere is cute. It's no Sounders home game but it's a cute smaller version.


PTFC should move their big home games to Autzen

this type of derby deserves 59,000 seats


----------



## metros11

Otto Racecar said:


> I agree. Although after the upcoming Montreal expansion, I feel the Mls really needs to work to promote the growth of not only its league but the 2nd and 3rd tier leagues. If there is never going to be relegation in the us then I feel a minor league system similar to what is in baseball would be beneficial to pro soccer in general in US.


MLS will never promote the NASL or USL because the structure is not the same as in Baseball. There are no farm teams and no correlation between these clubs, minor league players are under contract to minor league clubs only.


----------



## Otto Racecar

matthemod said:


> Kind of like a "Feeder" or "Development" league. You can clearly see the benefit of having such a system as evidenced by the relative success in terms of attendances of Seattle, Vancouver and Portland. However money talks and if some megalomaniac entrepreneur wants to fund an entirely new team in say, Louisville KY, complete with SSS, the MLS wouldn't necessarily first force them to enter the NASL or USL and work their way up.
> 
> In my opinion a good 2nd tier and more interraction between the MLS is essential to a strong league, and to prevent the rapid over-expansion which plagued the original NASL.


 You're right. This also probably another reason why relegation won't happen anytime soon if ever in the US. Money talks and being relegated would be a huge loss to MLS owners and a gain for those being promoted who didn't have to spend nearly as much initially for a club.


----------



## Otto Racecar

metros11 said:


> MLS will never promote the NASL or USL because the structure is not the same as in Baseball. There are no farm teams and no correlation between these clubs, minor league players are under contract to minor league clubs only.


Right. I understand that. What I'm saying is that there have been talks in the past of the mls acquiring either one of the leagues or having partnerships with the leagues to be a feeder league or farm league. One thought was that doing so would eliminate any hopes for relegation in the US. My comment is that I don't believe that the US will ever have relegation so it would be mutually beneficial for there to be a partnership between the MLS and the 2nd tier teams.


----------



## GunnerJacket

matthemod said:


> Kind of like a "Feeder" or "Development" league. You can clearly see the benefit of having such a system as evidenced by the relative success in terms of attendances of Seattle, Vancouver and Portland.


You are aware of the special circumstances surrounding those franchises, correct? I simply think their success (pre- & post- MLS) has nothing to do with their time in lower leagues but rather their long-standing devotion to the game and the teams. Conversely, Philly seems to be doing well without comparable history. I get your point, I just don't think it's as straight forward.



KingmanIII said:


> PTFC should move their big home games to Autzen
> 
> this type of derby deserves 59,000 seats


I can't say whether the venue would hold a soccer pitch, but I do know the league needs to be cautious about such ventures. If they don't pan out the maleffects could linger longer and deeper. Better to cultivate strong atmosphere and high-demand sell-outs in true home venues. Plus then you're not messing with too many one-time costs for advertising, field turnover, etc.



LCIII said:


> That said, Portlands little stadium/atmosphere is cute. It's no Sounders home game but it's a cute smaller version. Soccer is definitely in the blood in the Northwest!


Sounds derogatory, and if so I think that's unfounded. Considering the derth of quality soccer environments in this country Portland's atmosphere is easily top-five. If anything this is a testament to how good Seattle's crowd and venue has become rather than an elevated expectation of every MLS side. I also think the two (plus Vancouver) will benefit from and feed off each other - MLS is all the better for having multiple fanbases showing such undying loyalty and fervent atmosphere.


----------



## kerouac1848

Any particular reason why the NW appears to have such an appetite for the game?


----------



## Scba

Yuppies?


----------



## BoulderGrad

Scba said:


> Yuppies?


Whhaaatt??? I am offended and insul.... yeah... yuppies...


----------



## ryebreadraz

LCIII said:


> It's pathetic on part of the MLS that they allow such a small field. MLS needs to ball up and create standards and then enforce them.


The enforce the standards set by FIFA and Portland plays on the same size field that Stoke City and West Ham play on. Pathetic Premier League, right?


----------



## LCIII

FIFA is a whole other mess...I'll keep it to MLS for now.


----------



## carnifex2005

Otto Racecar said:


> Right. I understand that. What I'm saying is that there have been talks in the past of the mls acquiring either one of the leagues or having partnerships with the leagues to be a feeder league or farm league. One thought was that doing so would eliminate any hopes for relegation in the US. My comment is that I don't believe that the US will ever have relegation so it would be mutually beneficial for there to be a partnership between the MLS and the 2nd tier teams.


Montreal and Vancouver wanted to keep a team in the NASL (USSF Division 2) just for that purpose. The MLS has nixed it because of the cost to other teams and the possible competitive disadvantage but Vancouver says that talks still are going on.


----------



## metros11

Otto Racecar said:


> I don't believe that the US will ever have relegation so it would be mutually beneficial for there to be a partnership between the MLS and the 2nd tier teams.


I would agree.


----------



## eMKay

LCIII said:


> It's pathetic on part of the MLS that they allow such a small field. MLS needs to ball up and create standards and then enforce them.
> 
> That said, Portlands little stadium/atmosphere is cute. It's no Sounders home game but it's a cute smaller version. Soccer is definitely in the blood in the Northwest!


No, it isn't a Sounders home game, it's better. And what is wrong with the field? It's 110x70, within standards


----------



## Archbishop

I went to the Rapids-Whitecaps game in Colorado this past Saturday. DSGP is a lot like Toyota Park except a lot better concourses and closer to the city center. The roof is kind of weak though.


----------



## LCIII

eMKay said:


> No, it isn't a Sounders home game, it's better. And what is wrong with the field? It's 110x70, within standards


Hahahaha well opinions are like assholes...

Anyways, MLS should make all teams play on the same size field and all should be grass.


----------



## Calvin W

LCIII said:


> Hahahaha well opinions are like assholes...
> 
> Anyways, MLS should make all teams play on the same size field and all should be grass.


Yep and everyone has one, look in the mirror mate.

What's wrong with a bit of variation? Should they all play on the same type of turf or are you ok with different types of grass?:lol:


----------



## GunnerJacket

LCIII said:


> Anyways, MLS should make all teams play on the same size field and all should be grass.


You do realize those standards don't apply in the EPL, World Cup, La Liga... don't you? They don't even apply in MLB or the NHL.


----------



## LCIII

Yes I do realize and I don't care. I still want MLS to do that.


----------



## Pete Puma

LCIII said:


> Yes I do realize and I don't care. I still want MLS to do that.


Why stop there? I propose that the MLS clubs play all their games in the same stadium. Yes, one stadium for the entire league. That way no one will be happy, so everyone will be happy!


----------



## LCIII

Not even worth a response...


For those interested, the North Lot development that surrounds CenturyLink Field (formerly Qwest Field), home of the Seattle Sounders FC, is moving forward now. It's going to make the Pioneer Square/Stadium district so much more attractive for fans and residents. Theres more info in the Seattle Development News thread.


----------



## eMKay

LCIII said:


> Hahahaha well opinions are like assholes...
> 
> Anyways, MLS should make all teams play on the same size field and all should be grass.


No, they shouldn't. And your "opinions" are just ridiculous. Clearly just an ignorant homer.


----------



## LCIII

Hahaha same can be said of you and yours. But I don't care what you think of me so I won't stoop to your level.

Anyways- ihope it happens. Portlands pathetic little field played significantly into the fact of why they started so strong at home and then have sucked massively on the road on a big boys field. The rest of MLS has gotten used to playing down on their little baby field but they can't seem to adjust up to the real fields. 

And the turf surfaces should all make way for real grass ASAP. I can't wait to see the Sounders on real grass as soon as they can get it in at CenturyLink. It's supposed to be grass this week temporarily in prep for the ManU game.


----------



## ryebreadraz

I can't see Portland going to grass anytime soon. The playing surface is too close to the water table and they have Portland St. football there too. 

There's no way Seattle goes to grass at least until Husky Stadium is done and the Huskies are back over there. I don't know if it's feasible anyways with a soccer and football team there. Depends on the water table. 

Vancouver won't have grass either. They plan on having too many other events at BC Place and the roof wasn't built to allow for adequate sunlight. 

The only other turf surface in the league is New England and they'll go gras whenever they get their own stadium, if they ever get their own stadium.


----------



## LCIII

Seattle WILL be going to grass. They've already said as much.


----------



## eMKay

LCIII said:


> Hahaha same can be said of you and yours. But I don't care what you think of me so I won't stoop to your level.


No...It can't, sorry. And you really should care what people think about what you say, because right now nobody takes you seriously. Go ahead and find a homer post by me, I dare you.


----------



## ryebreadraz

LCIII said:


> Seattle WILL be going to grass. They've already said as much.


No they haven't. They said that they will be getting a new surface and that they will look at their options. With the Huskies and Seahawks there as well as the Sounders there's no way they go to grass next year though. It'll just be new turf since their current surface is horribly old and worn. But, you know, if you can homer convince yourself that they said grass, go for it.


----------



## slipperydog

ryebreadraz said:


> No they haven't. They said that they will be getting a new surface and that they will look at their options. With the Huskies and Seahawks there as well as the Sounders there's no way they go to grass next year though. It'll just be new turf since their current surface is horribly old and worn. But, you know, if you can homer convince yourself that they said grass, go for it.


Their best chance at grass is really a SSS. With the crazy fanbase they have up there, I think ownership should be looking at building one for them.


----------



## ihav3nofri3ndzz

well, I watched the Sounders/Timbers game last weekend, and I rather enjoyed Portland's stadium. The turf looked pretty good too.


----------



## LCIII

Seattle WILL have grass.


----------



## LCIII

If the fans want it bad enough, and they do, and since we have voting rights to make decisions with the front office, Seattle WILL eventually have grass. I never said it would be next year- though I wish. CenturyLink Field's owners wouldn't have said this on their website if it were impossible to do so:

"If Major League Soccer requires a grass playing surface, the field will be permanently changed to natural grass at the time that Seattle receives an MLS team."

http://www.stadium.org/meetFAQ.asp

As of yet obviously MLS does not require it (though again I wish they would), but if it were as impossible as some here would like to pretend then they wouldn't say as much on their website.


----------



## desertpunk

*US Womens Soccer Team Make It To The World Cup Finals!*






See those empty seats in Germany? We would fill them here! :cheers:


----------



## matthemod

So perhaps this is going to sound ridiculous for your American ears coming from a Brit...but couldn't the Sounders and the Seahawks just swap which type of surface they play on depending on the year? It's not as if they play at the same times of the year, theoretically they could install turf for the Seahawks and the NFL season, then replace it with grass by the time the MLS season starts.

Unless there's something very obvious I'm missing.


----------



## Calvin W

matthemod said:


> So perhaps this is going to sound ridiculous for your American ears coming from a Brit...but couldn't the Sounders and the Seahawks just swap which type of surface they play on depending on the year? It's not as if they play at the same times of the year, theoretically they could install turf for the Seahawks and the NFL season, then replace it with grass by the time the MLS season starts.
> 
> Unless there's something very obvious I'm missing.


Doable, but would be very expensive. The bases underneath the different types of surface is different so there would be the added expense of subsurface work twice a year. My football team replaced it's turf last year add spent a couple of million dollars doing it...


----------



## MS20

desertpunk said:


> *US Womens Soccer Team Make It To The World Cup Finals!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See those empty seats in Germany? We would fill them here! :cheers:


The empty seats were a surprising sight. I say that because the quarter finals were pretty much sold to capacity if I remember correctly. I wonder whether the tickets for semi finals were set at a premium; perhaps organizers were predicting Germany to make the semis at least? Whatever the case, I'd be surprised if the attendance is related specifically to public apathy. 

Although come to think of it, Borussia M's ground is larger than the grounds that have been used up to now (outside of German games). I'm sure that would play a part. At least the final should be sold out (I hope!)


----------



## BoulderGrad

slipperydog said:


> Their best chance at grass is really a SSS. With the crazy fanbase they have up there, I think ownership should be looking at building one for them.


Building their own SSS to get a grass field is like buying a new car just for the new floor mats.

For so many reasons, the Sounders are just fine at Q-Link.

The Main reasons for a MLS team to build an SSS is to control the revenue that comes from each game rather than paying a good chunk of it to another organization to lease the stadium. Paul Allen (part owner of the Sounders) also owns the Seahawks and a good chuck of Centurylink Field. Not sure the exact arrangement, but surely all the revenue from Sounders stays with the ownership group. They might also build an SSS to have a facility that is more in line with the kinds of crowds they pull. The Sounders have been steadily headed towards filling up Qwe...err... Centurylink as regularly as the SeaHawks. So again, no point.

As for the grass field issue, what I've read was that if Qwest was selected as a World Cup venue, they would have switched over to grass to meet Fifa standards. But since the US's bid was bought out by Qatar, that's not happening.

One thing I've been curious about is Giant's Stadium used to have a sort of tile system where it was actual grass growing on a plate that could be installed and removed before each game. With such a system, both the Sounders and Seahawks could have their own field. No soccer pitch getting torn up by the football team or gridiron lines showing either. Tho I gather they eventually switched to field turf before the stadium was demolished. Anyone know anything about the performance of the system or if/why they switched?


----------



## hngcm

matthemod said:


> So perhaps this is going to sound ridiculous for your American ears coming from a Brit...but couldn't the Sounders and the Seahawks just swap which type of surface they play on depending on the year? It's not as if they play at the same times of the year, theoretically they could install turf for the Seahawks and the NFL season, then replace it with grass by the time the MLS season starts.
> 
> Unless there's something very obvious I'm missing.


The seasons overlap by a bit though. 

MLS ends in November while the NFL starts in August (pre-season).


----------



## ryebreadraz

BoulderGrad said:


> One thing I've been curious about is Giant's Stadium used to have a sort of tile system where it was actual grass growing on a plate that could be installed and removed before each game. With such a system, both the Sounders and Seahawks could have their own field. No soccer pitch getting torn up by the football team or gridiron lines showing either. Tho I gather they eventually switched to field turf before the stadium was demolished. Anyone know anything about the performance of the system or if/why they switched?


It was an awful system and the grass was terrible. It was just like the temporary grass surfaces we see laid over turf for friendlies that perform terribly. It's better off just playing on good turf. 

Seattle won't have grass, but new turf for next year will be much, much better. I'm excited for them to replace that surface. Right now it's the worst in MLS.


----------



## BoulderGrad

ryebreadraz said:


> It was an awful system and the grass was terrible. It was just like the temporary grass surfaces we see laid over turf for friendlies that perform terribly. It's better off just playing on good turf.
> 
> Seattle won't have grass, but new turf for next year will be much, much better. I'm excited for them to replace that surface. Right now it's the worst in MLS.


Fair enough.


----------



## nyrmetros

ryebreadraz said:


> It was an awful system and the grass was terrible. It was just like the temporary grass surfaces we see laid over turf for friendlies that perform terribly. It's better off just playing on good turf.
> 
> Seattle won't have grass, but new turf for next year will be much, much better. I'm excited for them to replace that surface. Right now it's the worst in MLS.


Yea the grass trays at Giants Stadium were not very good.


----------



## LCIII

Excited to see CenturyLink Field all packed out for the Sounders FC v ManU game tonight!


----------



## krudmonk

These exhibitions are so zzzzzzzzz. Enjoy partial efforts and a bunch of plastics while I see a real league game in a cozy dump.


----------



## MS20

At least with Seattle you know its not totally just Eurosnobs in attendance. That said it does amaze me how these clubs can dupe people into forking out money for exhibition matches year after year.


----------



## KingmanIII

krudmonk said:


> These exhibitions are so zzzzzzzzz. Enjoy partial efforts and a bunch of plastics while I see a real league game in a cozy dump.


Most MLS stadia today are the farthest thing from "dumps"

(hopefully SJ gets a new new digs soon )


----------



## LCIII

We did well first half (only down 1-0) but then we swapped in our reserves players and everything went shit. Boss is no Keller, not by a LONG shot.


----------



## slipperydog

LCIII said:


> We did well first half (only down 1-0) but then we swapped in our reserves players and everything went shit. Boss is no Keller, not by a LONG shot.


Same story with NE Revolution. The MLS manager trots out the reserves in the second half to give them some memories to take home, and naturally they get embarrassed. Par for the course.


----------



## MS20

slipperydog said:


> Same story with NE Revolution. The MLS manager trots out the reserves in the second half to give them some memories to take home, and naturally they get embarrassed. Par for the course.


Unfortunately, its shambolic that thats what happening. I understand why Seattle would do that, but they need to have some perspective in that they are representing their entire league in exhibition games like this. Yes they are in the middle of a season, but people looking at results and watching footage around the world aren't going to realize the reserves were sent out. 

A 7-0 loss just isn't a good look for the MLS in any shape or form. Having just watched the highlights, that crowd was not only pro Seattle (as it should be), but there seemed to be very few people there solely to see United play. It suggests that the majority of the people who are paying to watch a meaningless friendly wanted to see Seattle pull off an upset against one of the best sides in the world. Perhaps thats why people go to friendlies, not just to see Rooney and United, but to see their home team defeat the worlds biggest football brands. And if one side is just going to throw in the towel, you have to ask yourself how such a match benefits anyone involved. If you're going to set up high profile friendlies, have the decency to perform infront of your fans.


----------



## JJG

KingmanIII said:


> Most MLS stadia today are the farthest thing from "dumps"
> 
> (hopefully SJ gets a new new digs soon )


I don't think he was talking about MLS. Even the current baseball field San Jose plays in is a step of from several old grounds in other countries.


----------



## Otto Racecar

MS20 said:


> And if one side is just going to throw in the towel, you have to ask yourself how such a match benefits anyone involved. If you're going to set up high profile friendlies, have the decency to perform infront of your fans.


I couldn't agree more.All this does is give more ammo to the eurofiles in the US who say,"This is why I don't watch mls" and to other people who like to take potshots at the league for whatever reason. I mean an intelligent fan who watched the game not just the highlights would realize that the reserves played the 2nd half but how many people really watched the whole game. The mls is in no position to be content to get embaressed in these friendlies. I understand its a friendly but to many people its also a barometer of how the mls stacks up to foreign competition. Does Johnny 30,000 a year paycheck really need to go up against the elite players in the world when the game is still in hand??


----------



## krudmonk

JJG said:


> I don't think he was talking about MLS. Even the current baseball field San Jose plays in is a step of from several old grounds in other countries.


I actually was referring to Buck Shaw as a dump (although it is clean), but I saw an actual match there last night and not another substitute-happy exhibition. MLS needs to rethink their approach to the cashgrabs. I hate the Galaxy and Sounders but it's still embarrassing to seem them raped on ESPN.


----------



## SJAnfield

krudmonk said:


> *I actually was referring to Buck Shaw as a dump* (although it is clean), but I saw an actual match there last night and not another substitute-happy exhibition. MLS needs to rethink their approach to the cashgrabs. I hate the Galaxy and Sounders but it's still embarrassing to seem them raped on ESPN.


That's putting it a little too nicely


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^So speaking of which, what is going on with the new Earthquake's stadium? We're past the 12 weeks it was to take to demolish the existing buildings on the site. Is construction actually starting, or are we still waiting for the money?


----------



## warpus

Otto Racecar said:


> I couldn't agree more.All this does is give more ammo to the eurofiles in the US who say,"This is why I don't watch mls" and to other people who like to take potshots at the league for whatever reason. I mean an intelligent fan who watched the game not just the highlights would realize that the reserves played the 2nd half but how many people really watched the whole game. The mls is in no position to be content to get embaressed in these friendlies. I understand its a friendly but to many people its also a barometer of how the mls stacks up to foreign competition. Does Johnny 30,000 a year paycheck really need to go up against the elite players in the world when the game is still in hand??


I read somewhere that the reason Toronto FC opted not to play any mid-season friendlies this year is because the team met with representatives of the supporters groups and the overall consesus was "We don't want mid-season friendlies"

I could care less what people who hate the MLS say, they can sod off. Having a friendly mid-season doesn't make sense because all you're doing is adding 1 more fixture to an already too busy fixture schedule. MLS teams don't have enough depth to deal with this crap, and the only reason these friendlies happen is as a way for the owners (and the league) to make money.

TFC fans don't want mid-season friendlies not because of what you said.. but rather because we don't want to see our team having 1 more fixture to put up with in an already congested schedule. Pre-season friendlies make a hell of a lot more sense.


----------



## matthemod

I suppose the main issue is that even though these friendlies are primarily a money making exercies, they're also a huge advertising campaign for the club and the MLS as a whole.

Here in the UK we're currently in a our pre-season stage, meaning most (outside the premiership atleast) clubs are travelling around the local area to play some meaningless friendlies against small non-league sides. Even though they are completely meaningless, it's an opportunity for these local sides to draw a bigger crowd, more often than not having a larger attendance than they would for a regular league game...at regular season entry prices. It's a good and maybe even essential money making exercise for these clubs, but what is perhaps more important is that it's these kind of games that reach out to the local population who may not go see their local club, but will show up for this "big" game. If all goes well and they enjoy their one off, they may decide to head down to a few games the coming season. 

Now obviously MLS teams are bigger than non-league teams in the UK...i'm by no means saying the Sounders are on equal footing with Margate FC...but the theory is more of less the same. Mid-season friendlies in the MLS are an essential evil in my opinion.


----------



## warpus

matthemod said:


> I suppose the main issue is that even though these friendlies are primarily a money making exercies, they're also a huge advertising campaign for the club and the MLS as a whole.


I always viewed them as more of a draw for local fans than any sort of advertisement for the league as a whole. They might be if our team were actually competitive against the likes of Manchester United or Real Madrid, but we're not.

So I'm not really sure it helps promote the league much and it is a huge drain on the resources of the already strained MLS clubs. TFC is a team that sells out every league match, so selling out for yet another game is not such a big deal, even if the ticket prices are raised a bit.

I'm glad TFC isn't doing mid-season friendlies anymore, it will help us be a bit more competitive in the MLS as well as the Champions' League.. but you know, having said that, it would be cool to have Chelsea visit or something like that  So I can see the appeal.. but I am against it generally.


----------



## Topher51

SoroushPersepolisi said:


> i dont understand why so many like the kansas city stadium
> 
> i personally find it very cold, it doesnt seem like its a strong enclosed space, it feels too open, i dont like it
> 
> the red bull arena is far better in my opinion


I don't think it was meant to feel enclosed. The roof gives it the unique (at least in the US) feel of a Euro style soccer stadium, but with the translucent interior rim of the roof and the open envelope around most of the stadium it doesn't feel like you are sitting in a closet either. I like it, but I like other stadiums far better. It is a bold step forward in the US though and I hope when DC United finally builds their new stadium, it is something like this, rather than RBA. 

Another thing to consider is that it's really hot in KC during the summer. They probably wanted to have a breeze blowing through the stadium.


----------



## krudmonk

I think it balances open and intimate very well.


----------



## weava

I think the KC stadium feels very american, almost has an AA/AAA baseball stadium vibe which I like.


----------



## SoroushPersepolisi

its nice yea, but im just saying the RBA is better

and in contrary to Topher51, i believe the RBA has a very european feel? but its not the same for live strong

live strong is still nice


----------



## ryebreadraz

Having been to both, I prefer Livestrong. Red Bull Arena is very nice, but they've paid such extreme detail to each little detail of Livestrong and it's noticeable whn you're there. The member's club is fantastic, the seats are closer to the pitch and RBA can feel cold and dreary with all it's grey and exposed ceiling. That's not the case at Livestrong. No doubt that they are the clear first and second best soccer stadiums in the U.S., but I also have no doubt in my mind that Livestrong is better.


----------



## slipperydog

> *Montreal Impact to unveil new MLS crest on Saturday*
> Expansion side set to reveal logo at halftime of NASL game


----------



## BoulderGrad

Best Crests in MLS:
1: Chicago Fire
2: Vancouver Whitecaps
3: Philadelphia Union
4: Portland Timbers
5: Seattle Sounders


----------



## soup or man

Not bad.


----------



## slipperydog

They are going with the Inter jerseys too. Nice!


----------



## SouthmoreAvenue

It seems like a little too someone-could've-created-this-out-of-the-paint-application-from-Windows PC, to me at least. And the font for Montreal Impact is doing nothing for me....

I dislike it, but that's just one person's opinion, and I respectfully acknowledge other people's opinion.


----------



## carnifex2005

Here is the virtual venue for Stade Saputo.


----------



## BoulderGrad

SouthmoreAvenue said:


> It seems like a little too someone-could've-created-this-out-of-the-paint-application-from-Windows PC, to me at least. And the font for Montreal Impact is doing nothing for me....
> 
> I dislike it, but that's just one person's opinion, and I respectfully acknowledge other people's opinion.


I think I could say that about a lot of logos in MLS. Compare Chivas USA's crest to something like the Sounders or Whitecaps or any of the recent additions to the league. I think they're meant to be simple and scaleable.


----------



## 3tmk

I forgot about Montreal's expansion team. The first thing that struck me was that them being francophone, I wonder how that would fit in the MLS format and coverage in the usa


----------



## duklep

How about the new home of the New York Cosmos?


----------



## patrice meursault

duklep said:


> How about the new home of the New York Cosmos?


 
Cosmos is a martketing ploy to sell clothes. they are nowhere near a) being granted an MLS slot b)they have no cash, they're not even close to coming up for the tens of millions for their franchise fee c) they have no stadium. There is nowhere in the NYC area where they can build. Heck, if the American football team (Jets) couldn't even get a stadium built in Manhatten, I don't believe an MLS team will be able to.
All the Cosmos have is a name and some famous footballers associated with the name.

Let's assume the Cosmos are granted an MLS slot and come up w/ the cash for the fees, their only options for a stadium are A) the new Meadowlands in NJ or B) eat crow and get on their knees and beg NYRed Bulls to allow them to play in their stadium.


----------



## will101

carnifex2005 said:


> Here is the virtual venue for Stade Saputo.


Strange that this is 200 meters from The Big Owe. And I wonder how these guys can get more than 20,000 seats, but the Alouettes can't.


----------



## mattec

slipperydog said:


>


I know this is nitpicking, but their map is terrible.

Mountains in the middle of Kansas? Seattle in Oregon? Real SL and Colorado in Wyoming? Columbus in Kentucky? Kansas City on the Iowa/ Nebraska border? And DC off the coast of North Carolina?

I mean, I'm not expecting an accurate map, but something along the lines of reality would be nice. 

/rant


----------



## Topher51

SoroushPersepolisi said:


> its nice yea, but im just saying the RBA is better
> 
> and in contrary to Topher51, i believe the RBA has a very european feel? but its not the same for live strong
> 
> live strong is still nice


You misunderstand me. RBA is a very nice venue and I think it has the most Euro like feel of any venue in the MLS, I'd just prefer to see a stadium like Livestrong built in DC. The areas they have talked about building it are right on the river and having one end open up to park land and the water would be nice. Just my preference though. I am sure some people would prefer to see a fully enclosed stadium too.


----------



## Archbishop

mattec said:


> I know this is nitpicking, but their map is terrible.
> 
> Mountains in the middle of Kansas? Seattle in Oregon? Real SL and Colorado in Wyoming? Columbus in Kentucky? Kansas City on the Iowa/ Nebraska border? And DC off the coast of North Carolina?
> 
> I mean, I'm not expecting an accurate map, but something along the lines of reality would be nice.
> 
> /rant


They also refuse to recognize the Union as an MLS team.


----------



## mattec

Archbishop said:


> They also refuse to recognize the Union as an MLS team.


ah, I missed that...


----------



## mattec

houston update:










webcam: http://www.houstondynamo.com/stadium/webcam


----------



## Darloeye

^^^^ Looks good


----------



## Rev Stickleback

Lupin III said:


> English numbers are actually higher than reported. They report a lower number to avoid paying tax (or rather pay lesser tax).


That was probably true a while back, but not really now where all entry is ticketted.

It's a lot easier to fiddle cash admission rather than pre-paid.

Many clubs now also report tickets sold rather than the actual number that turns up, although the difference isn't that great.

Burnley used to publish both tickets sold and the number who attended, and the difference was about 1000 in a 15000 crowd.


----------



## Marckymarc

http://www.flickr.com/photos/edwardjensen/6122165040/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/pamrentz/5741358373/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/stahancyk/5619091875/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/stahancyk/5616776458/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/totalnerd/5557375066/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/totalnerd/5578722712/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/pamrentz/6063334824/


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^So as I recall, they're opening up the tarped off seats for a few games, yes?


----------



## Marckymarc

BoulderGrad said:


> ^^So as I recall, they're opening up the tarped off seats for a few games, yes?


That's what I've heard. It was dumb that they used the tarps at all. They could sell out every game without them.


----------



## bd popeye

Marckymarc said:


> That's what I've heard. It was dumb that they used the tarps at all. They could sell out every game without them.


I can't believe it! I agree with Marckymarc. Portland could have easily sold out those tarps seats..easily.


----------



## carnifex2005

Marckymarc said:


> That's what I've heard. It was dumb that they used the tarps at all. They could sell out every game without them.


The Timbers did that not because they couldn't sell the seats but because the ownership weren't sure that the concourses and other facilities would be big enough to handle the crowd. Very late in the season they did add 2000 more seats in two games in an experiment to see if the lines increased significantly. Timbers management will decide after the season to add more seating. It's good to have that choice.


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^I believe those are also mostly obstructed view seats.


----------



## Lumbergo

Portland's stadium is definitely the best stadium that MLS has right now. so much character and the atmosphere that the fans create is just awesome.


----------



## Marckymarc

carnifex2005 said:


> The Timbers did that not because they couldn't sell the seats but because the ownership weren't sure that the concourses and other facilities would be big enough to handle the crowd. Very late in the season they did add 2000 more seats in two games in an experiment to see if the lines increased significantly. Timbers management will decide after the season to add more seating. It's good to have that choice.


Thanks for clearing that up. That's the problem with an old venue like this--smallish concourses and not enough facilities.

The Timbers really could use a new state of the art 25,000 seat soccer stadium. Jeld Wen has "character", but it's still basically an antiquated 86 year old facility.


----------



## mattec

Marckymarc said:


> Thanks for clearing that up. That's the problem with an old venue like this--smallish concourses and not enough facilities.
> 
> The Timbers really could use a new state of the art 25,000 seat soccer stadium. Jeld Wen has "character", but it's still basically an antiquated 86 year old facility.


not after they (and the city) just spent on redoing jeld-wen...


----------



## Marckymarc

mattec said:


> not after they (and the city) just spent on redoing jeld-wen...


Oh I know it aint happening. The Timbers will have to play there until it literally falls apart.


----------



## eMKay

It's not the best stadium in the league, but right now it's my favorite in the league. It has character, was renovated brilliantly, and has for sure the best atmosphere in the league. They got something special up there, and I'm looking forward to seeing what it's like in the playoffs.


----------



## ck1wsp

Hey all, new to the forum. I have been to Livestrong in Kansas City Kansas and I must say that it would be tough to beat (at least in the U.S). Sporting KC really did it right!


----------



## will101

ck1wsp said:


> Hey all, new to the forum. I have been to Livestrong in Kansas City Kansas and I must say that it would be tough to beat (at least in the U.S). Sporting KC really did it right!


Welcome to the forum.

While LiveStrong looks good, I'm still trying to figure out why it is better than the other SOSs here. But I'm more of a fan of the gently curved grandstands, as opposed to the harshly linear sidelines.


----------



## will101

Marckymarc said:


> Oh I know it aint happening. The Timbers will have to play there until it literally falls apart.


Which won't be for quite a while. I was there for a baseball game a couple of years ago, and it was obvious that the place has been severely refurbished. One of the first large public structures in Oregon to receive a seismic retrofit.


----------



## MS20

The Oregonian offices are just behind Jeld-Wen? Is that the city's biggest publication?


----------



## Marckymarc

will101 said:


> Which won't be for quite a while. I was there for a baseball game a couple of years ago, and it was obvious that the place has been severely refurbished. One of the first large public structures in Oregon to receive a seismic retrofit.


Yeah, it's a good facility for its age for the most part...good location although if you drive, good luck finding parking...taking the MAX is the only sane option.

The main problem is that it has only one concourse serving both the lower and upper seats. The concourse isn't _tiny_, but it's not really adequate to serve an un-tarped sellout, which would be about 22,000.

It actually reminds me of the Forum in that it only has the one concourse for both levels. It was crazy trying to navigate through the Forum concourse with a sellout during intermission--literally wall-to-wall humanity.

I would assume JWF would be a similar situation.


----------



## will101

MS20 said:


> The Oregonian offices are just behind Jeld-Wen? Is that the city's biggest publication?


It's Oregon's biggest publication, and quite literally the worst newspaper I have ever read. Which is saying something from a person raised on the San Francisco Chronicle.


----------



## BoulderGrad

nyrmetros said:


> Red Bull Arena is on a freaking subway line...... 15 minute train ride!


You have a good point. Rethinking it, I need to adjust the categories a bit:

Right Downtown:
Jeld-Wen
New Dynamo Stadium
BC Place
C-Link Field
BMO Field (Sortof)

Bit of a trek:
Livestrong
Toyota Park
Crew Stadium
New Earthquakes
Rio Tinto
Home Depot Center

Its not that far... but lock your doors...
Red Bull Arena
PPL Park
RFK (At least it was rough in the 90's, haven't been since, how is it now?)

We have a soccer stadium?
Dicks Sporting Goods
Pizza Hut Park
Foxboro


----------



## Dexter Morgan

Red Bull Arena is in Harrison, NJ....not Newark


----------



## Nexis

BoulderGrad said:


> You have a good point. Rethinking it, I need to adjust the categories a bit:
> 
> Right Downtown:
> Jeld-Wen
> New Dynamo Stadium
> BC Place
> C-Link Field
> BMO Field (Sortof)
> 
> Bit of a trek:
> Livestrong
> Toyota Park
> Crew Stadium
> New Earthquakes
> Rio Tinto
> Home Depot Center
> 
> Its not that far... but lock your doors...
> Red Bull Arena
> PPL Park
> RFK (At least it was rough in the 90's, haven't been since, how is it now?)
> 
> We have a soccer stadium?
> Dicks Sporting Goods
> Pizza Hut Park
> Foxboro


Whats wrong with Harrison,NJ? Newark? The area of Newark that borders Harrison , is low crime and very popular with New Jerseyites due to the fine dining of the Ironbound. I think it was a mistake to place the PPL park in Harrison , when South Philly was a better choice.


----------



## krudmonk

BoulderGrad said:


> You have a good point. Rethinking it, I need to adjust the categories a bit:
> 
> Right Downtown:
> Jeld-Wen
> New Dynamo Stadium
> BC Place
> C-Link Field
> BMO Field (Sortof)
> 
> Bit of a trek:
> Livestrong
> Toyota Park
> Crew Stadium
> New Earthquakes
> Rio Tinto
> Home Depot Center
> 
> Its not that far... but lock your doors...
> Red Bull Arena
> PPL Park
> RFK (At least it was rough in the 90's, haven't been since, how is it now?)
> 
> We have a soccer stadium?
> Dicks Sporting Goods
> Pizza Hut Park
> Foxboro


The new Quakes stadium site is closer than BMO, and certainly not in the same category as Livestrong or Rio Tinto.


----------



## Marckymarc

Werkself said:


> Sorry, for me the best MLS location is the Timbers Stadium.


Great location, yes--the only drawback is that there's no good parking situation if you choose to drive.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Marckymarc said:


> Great location, yes--the only drawback is that there's no good parking situation if you choose to drive.


driving is outlawed in the PNW. Not a problem ;-)

It's in a fairly walkable part of the city and right on a light rail line so no driving really necessary.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Update on the Earthquakes new stadium:
http://www.sjearthquakes.com/news/2011/10/kavals-kickoff-fresh-rendering-new-stadium

Included photo is huge and not sure how to resize. Anyone care to extract and post? Not much to see, just an elevation of the exterior


----------



## RMB2007

^^


----------



## vanbasten88

Anyone got pics of the Whitecaps new digs (BC Place) in Soccer mode please? :cheers::cheers:


----------



## RMB2007

^^

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=84494131&postcount=445


----------



## BoulderGrad

RMB2007 said:


> ^^


Know how to post pictures, just didn't want to post one that was too big. Any easy way to resize other than saving a smaller copy and uploading elsewhere?


----------



## RMB2007

BoulderGrad said:


> Know how to post pictures, just didn't want to post one that was too big. Any easy way to resize other than saving a smaller copy and uploading elsewhere?


I tend to use ImageShack or TinyPic. Both those sites give you the option to easily resize your picture(s).


----------



## BoulderGrad

RMB2007 said:


> I tend to use ImageShack or TinyPic. Both those sites give you the option to easily resize your picture(s).


Exactly, you have to save the picture, and resize it elsewhere. There's no way to do the [img /img] thing but declare a size so that it displays the picture at a more reasonable size?


----------



## vanbasten88

RMB..many thanks, that was exactly what I was hoping to see..looks great, was anybody there to rate the atmosphere? Atmosphere is the principle difference between soccer football and most other ball sports. Not the presence of it, but the way it is generated by the fans almost irrespective of the play on the pitch. :cheers:


----------



## makkillottu

Hi there,

the Home Depot Stadium hosted some years ago the rally-racing X-Games event?


----------



## metros11

flierfy said:


> Compared to the MLS football in all three divisions of the Football League are pure gold. Solid crowds in good voices, away supporters travelling in numbers and each games actually means something. A dog fight at the bottom end and a race for promotion at the top end of the table climaxing in a play-off final at Wembley. You have none of that in the MLS.


The EPL is shown here every weekend, we see plenty of empty seats for Bolton, Blackburn and others. These are EPL sides that can't sell out, you'd have to be more specific about your 'solid crowds' of the football leagues. The championship is on par with MLS in regards to attendance. We'll never have the same away support as in England simply because of the size of our country. And as far as 'races', there's always one down to the wire for the playoff spots. 


mgk920 said:


> http://www.mlive.com/soccer/index.s...ort_to_bring_major_league_soccer_to_moto.html
> 
> Very interesting and we'll have to see how this one goes.
> 
> Mike


This will NEVER happen.


BoulderGrad said:


> Its not that far... but lock your doors...
> Red Bull Arena













makkillottu said:


> Hi there,
> 
> the Home Depot Stadium hosted some years ago the rally-racing X-Games event?


Yes.


----------



## SouthmoreAvenue

Update


----------



## irving1903

rantanamo said:


> Perfect descriptor of Pizza Hut's location. Not only is it in a far far northern suburb of Dallas, but its not in the area with the rest of that suburb's entertainment area, but rather even further north in a really residential area. I know its in downtown Frisco, but it really isn't much as Frisco was a tiny tiny tiny town before the sprawl hit it.


God PHP might as well be in Oklahoma -____-

FCD needs to move back to Dallas, preferably downtown or heck Irving. Just saying.... 

Somewhere at least well within either Dallas or Tarrant county !!


----------



## JJG

irving1903 said:


> God PHP might as well be in Oklahoma -____-
> 
> FCD needs to move back to Dallas, preferably downtown or heck Irving. Just saying....
> 
> Somewhere at least well within either Dallas or Tarrant county !!


I know where....










:lol:


----------



## rantanamo

I actually think the Las Colinas Urban Center Cowboys Stadium site would be perfect. Right on Lake Carolyn. Right next to Irving's Jawa Sandcrawler, looking at the high rises there, and right on the Orange line. This would give good access


----------



## BoulderGrad

massp88 said:


> I would be curious to know if MLS has had any talks with the Krafts about a SSS for the Revolution.


Yes...


----------



## slipperydog

BoulderGrad said:


> Yes...


@kylejmccarthy: J. Kraft reinforces desire 4 urban location 4 potential 20k-22k seat stadium - hopes to announce a SSS in next 12 months


----------



## nyrmetros

Hopefully.


----------



## Chri44ophe55

It would be great if they built a stadium.

It should become home to the Boston Cannons Major League Lacrosse team, because the ground they play at now is an absolute disgrace.


----------



## soup or man

DC and New England NEED a new stadium. Why doesn't New England look at other states for possible sites? I mean they don't have to stay in Massachusetts rights? It would be really cool to see a SSS in Providence, RI. That would be HUGE for the tiniest state.


----------



## eMKay

SouthmoreAvenue said:


> http://www.houstondynamo.com/news/2011/10/stadium-questions-matt-doffing


Look at the pitch of those risers! This stadium is going to be an awesome place to watch a soccer game.


----------



## master_klon

Photos taken last week at the new Dynamo Stadium:




























Courtesy of http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w199/andrewjackson1961/


----------



## krudmonk

Stadium mk USA doesn't look too bad


----------



## master_klon

krudmonk said:


> Stadium mk USA doesn't look too bad


They are both designed by the same architectural firm, but if you had bothered looking at the renders you would see that they are quite different. 

Stop trolling and waste your time somewhere else, unless you want to try list the 'similarities'?

:troll:


----------



## MS20

Is likening it to stadium MK even an insult? It might have been a pisstake, but its not a particularly offensive one is it? 

By English standards its a fine stadium. I don't think anyone would disagree that Houston isn't an architectural masterpiece. In fact if every club in the MLS had a Dons-type stadium it would be brilliant. DC United and NE would rip your arm off for one for instance.


----------



## master_klon

MS20 said:


> Is likening it to stadium MK even an insult? It might have been a pisstake, but its not a particularly offensive one is it?


No, I never said it was an insult if a stadium is likened to stadium mk. 
However, krudmonk's comment has no relevance to this thread. There is hardly any similarites between the two stadiums. Saying stadium mk looks like the new Dynamo Stadium, is like saying the Nou Camp looks like Wembley. hno:


----------



## metros11

It looks nothing like MK stadium.


----------



## Darloeye

metros11 said:


> It looks nothing like MK stadium.


Yes Nothing like the stadium. MK Stadium has two tiers to it and Houston only has a single tier, Plus MK has a roof fully around the stadium.


----------



## krudmonk

San Jose:Houston::Wimbledon:Milton Keynes

I am truly sorry for straining your brains.....


----------



## 3tmk

Amazing to see the Dynamo stadium rise, thanks for the updates.


To comment on this MLS season's averages, I am quite glad to see so many solid numbers, continued enthusiasm in many cities, as well as for the new franchises.


----------



## Scoots71

During the LA-NY 2nd leg, I noticed the upper deck was closed at HDC and the announcers mentioned some kind of ordinance I think related to weeknight capacity. Anyone know the deal with that?


----------



## vanbasten88

Scoots71 said:


> During the LA-NY 2nd leg, I noticed the upper deck was closed at HDC and the announcers mentioned some kind of ordinance I think related to weeknight capacity. Anyone know the deal with that?


from twitter RT'd by MLS:
Will Kuhns
@will_kuhns Will Kuhns
If u don't already know: Attendance on weeknights at the Home Depot Center is capped around 15K due to campus regulations at Cal State DH.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

yup i was there last night, and they bumped it up to 20,000 for the game. its a stupid rule. The game was at 8 pm. no one is at school at that time and no one would have been disrupted. they should have let the Galaxy sell out the stadium, considering its a playoff game. having said that, the atmosphere will still great.


----------



## ryebreadraz

It's actually usually capped at 13k per AEG's agreement with the university. When they agreed to build the stadium, MLS didn't play midweek playoff matches so they could schedule their regular season matches on the weekends durring the school year and have no problem. They initially allowed the Galaxy to sell 15k, but then the Galaxy set up remote parking with shuttles to the stadium, which is why they allowed them to go to 20k.

AEG is in discussions with the university to allow for up to four midweek matches per year during the school year (in the summer they can sell however many they want) to sell to the full 27k. I'm unsure what AEG will have to give up in return, but that's where they are now.


----------



## Darloeye

Yeah was watching the game too, Was going to ask about that. Sure the team were not doing well if they could not sell out the stadium for a playoff game.


----------



## metros11

Darloeye said:


> Thanks, Think having the final in a neutral site ist he best way. :banana:


I'd prefer it being at the home of the higher seed. So in essence, this worked out pretty well.


----------



## master_klon

Whats the deal with the seating for the MLS Cup final.
One end for Houston supporters, the other end for LA supporters, and the two main stands for whoever?


----------



## Gutex

metros11 said:


> I'd prefer it being at the home of the higher seed. So in essence, this worked out pretty well.


For me the best way by far is to have two matches at the respectives homes with the second being at the best ranked team stadium.


----------



## ryebreadraz

Gutex said:


> For me the best way by far is to have two matches at the respectives homes with the second being at the best ranked team stadium.


I like having it at the stadium of the higher seeded team. MLS doesn't do enough as if to reward teams in the playoffs for fantastic regular seasons. For me, two-legged ties are for when draws are done at random, like in the World Cup, Champions League, etc., not when you played 34 matches to establish superiority.


----------



## massp88

ryebreadraz said:


> I like having it at the stadium of the higher seeded team. MLS doesn't do enough as if to reward teams in the playoffs for fantastic regular seasons. For me, two-legged ties are for when draws are done at random, like in the World Cup, Champions League, etc., not when you played 34 matches to establish superiority.


It's too bad the domestic cup is not bigger. In a perfect world, the MLS would not have any playoffs and each team would play each other twice, once at home and once on the road. 

Then you would have the domestic cup to bring playoff excitement and the CONCACAF Champions League as well. 

Soccer is unique in that teams need to focus on playing well on the road. In the MLB, NHL, NBA, teams with home field/ice/court advantage can sit back and only play well at home.


----------



## master_klon

massp88 said:


> It's too bad the domestic cup is not bigger. In a perfect world, the MLS would not have any playoffs and each team would play each other twice, once at home and once on the road.
> 
> Then you would have the domestic cup to bring playoff excitement and the CONCACAF Champions League as well.


The Playoffs

There has been plenty of griping about the MLS Playoffs, primarily for the reason that it’s un-European. The argument goes that the season’s body of work should be the primary measure of success and should thereby determine the champion. All well and good. But let’s face it, a single-table points-winner-takes-all system without relegation could very well lead to the final months of the season being rendered pointless for most of the league.
Take this year, for example. If such a system had been in place, even with something like the top 3 or 4 qualifying for CCL, more than half the table would have been eliminated from meaningful competition by August. And here is the other thing: CCL play, while certainly a nice prize, doesn’t carry nearly the allure that the UEFA Champions League does. So, by August, with Galaxy virtually assured of winning the league, and only a handful of teams battling for a CCL spot they only moderately care about, we would have had a system in which more than half the league would be virtually playing for pride.
Instead, with the playoff system, we were treated to two months of thrilling soccer where virtually everybody was still in contention. Until American soccer grows to the point of making relegation and promotion viable (which we’re not even close to, if it will ever happen), and until CCL truly becomes a major tournament (which we’re much closer to, but still have a ways to go), the playoffs create the most exciting league play of any system.

http://timbersarmy.org/good-don-bad-don-garber



Gutex said:


> For me the best way by far is to have two matches at the respectives homes with the second being at the best ranked team stadium.


That would be good for the supporters if the two teams are a long distance apart, but it takes some of the urgency and excitement out of the game. For LA vs Houston its full on for 90 minutes, and will be a great advertisement for the league. Its all about which team will step up when it counts. We saw what happened in the RSL vs Seattle games. RSL got a large goal advantage and were happy to take a second leg loss.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

master_klon said:


> The Playoffs
> 
> There has been plenty of griping about the MLS Playoffs, primarily for the reason that it’s un-European. The argument goes that the season’s body of work should be the primary measure of success and should thereby determine the champion. All well and good. But let’s face it, a single-table points-winner-takes-all system without relegation could very well lead to the final months of the season being rendered pointless for most of the league.
> Take this year, for example. If such a system had been in place, even with something like the top 3 or 4 qualifying for CCL, more than half the table would have been eliminated from meaningful competition by August. And here is the other thing: CCL play, while certainly a nice prize, doesn’t carry nearly the allure that the UEFA Champions League does. So, by August, with Galaxy virtually assured of winning the league, and only a handful of teams battling for a CCL spot they only moderately care about, we would have had a system in which more than half the league would be virtually playing for pride.
> Instead, with the playoff system, we were treated to two months of thrilling soccer where virtually everybody was still in contention. Until American soccer grows to the point of making relegation and promotion viable (which we’re not even close to, if it will ever happen), and until CCL truly becomes a major tournament (which we’re much closer to, but still have a ways to go), the playoffs create the most exciting league play of any system.
> 
> http://timbersarmy.org/good-don-bad-don-garber
> 
> 
> 
> That would be good for the supporters if the two teams are a long distance apart, but it takes some of the urgency and excitement out of the game. For LA vs Houston its full on for 90 minutes, and will be a great advertisement for the league. Its all about which team will step up when it counts. We saw what happened in the RSL vs Seattle games. RSL got a large goal advantage and were happy to take a second leg loss.


very well said.


----------



## slipperydog

MLS Cup 2011: AEG-owned Galaxy vs. AEG-owned Houston at an AEG-owned stadium for a trophy named after the AEG owner


----------



## krnboy1009

No LEAGUE should ever have two teams owned by same group. Thats just pathetic, shows how amateurish MLS is.


----------



## bd popeye

krnboy1009 said:


> No LEAGUE should ever have two teams owned by same group. Thats just pathetic, shows how amateurish MLS is.


amateurish? In what sense? 

Have you checked this thread which is about the stadium building boom in the MLS?

Not the most popular sports league in the US..but the MLS is climbing the ladder.


----------



## metros11

krnboy1009 said:


> No LEAGUE should ever have two teams owned by same group. Thats just pathetic, shows how amateurish MLS is.


A decade ago all 10 teams were owned by 3 owners, with AEG running 6 clubs. They're headed in the right direction.


----------



## Darloeye

Its not the best system having a hand full of owners, but the league is growing and having almost all of the teams playing in their own stadiums is great. Will MLS grow more with the NBA players striking ?


----------



## bd popeye

> Will MLS grow more with the NBA players striking ?


hno: The NBA players are not on strike. They are locked out by the team owners until a new collective barganing agreement can be made.

Now..at this time the MSL does not have enough horsepower to bypass the NBA in..anything but attendance. (only because their venues are larger)


----------



## koolio

There is little overlap between the NBA and MLS season anyways so it doesn't matter. MLS stands to gain the most from MLB strike.


----------



## Darloeye

Ok Thanks, knew the league was striking over something (money) but was not sure. Would MLS be better off moving to play over the winter months or would that be worse? 
think the weather in some citys might be aweful to play in.


----------



## Archbishop

Darloeye said:


> Ok Thanks, knew the league was striking over something (money) but was not sure. Would MLS be better off moving to play over the winter months or would that be worse?
> think the weather in some citys might be aweful to play in.


Half of MLS cities would not be able to play in the winter. They have to play in the spring to fall schedule. Chicago, Columbus, New York, New England, Philadelphia, Washington, Montreal, Toronto, Seattle, and Portland would all have minimal attendance and terrible play.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Darloeye said:


> Ok Thanks, knew the league was striking over something (money) but was not sure. Would MLS be better off moving to play over the winter months or would that be worse?
> think the weather in some citys might be aweful to play in.


Summer time, only league they have to compete with is Major League Baseball.

In the winter, not only do they have to compete with NFL, NBA, and NHL, but also all the other european leagues that draw a lot more world wide attention.

MLS is just fine where they are.


----------



## krudmonk

krnboy1009 said:


> No LEAGUE should ever have two teams owned by same group. Thats just pathetic, shows how amateurish MLS is.












derp


----------



## Scoots71

Don't know if anyone knew this, but I read in the Sports Business Journal that Portland is planning on adding more seating to Jeld-Wen Field to have a capacity of 23,000.


----------



## bd popeye

Darloeye, as has been pointed out the the winter weather in the northern tier of MLS cities is brutal in the winter..brutal.

Average January temps for selected MLS cities

Average temps..
Chicago 24f -4c
New York 32f 0c
Boston(NE) 29f -1c
Philadelphia 32f 0c
Toronto 20f -6c
Seattle 40f 5c
Washington DC 36f 6c
Montreal 13f -10c


----------



## ryebreadraz

Yeah, they did it for a few matches this past season. Those seats were covered for most matches this season because they weren't sure if the concourses and other facilities could handle such large crowds, but apparently their test matches at the tail end of the year went well so they're going to open them for next season.


----------



## carnifex2005

Scoots71 said:


> Don't know if anyone knew this, but I read in the Sports Business Journal that Portland is planning on adding more seating to Jeld-Wen Field to have a capacity of 23,000.


It's not 23,000, the capacity will be 20,323.


----------



## will101

carnifex2005 said:


> It's not 23,000, the capacity will be 20,323.


Actually the 20,323 number was the capacity listed when they uncovered existing seating for end of season games for New England and Houston. But Timbers COO Mike Golub has said only that the new capacity will be "in the neighborhood" of that figure. This is courtesy of The-Newspaper-Across-The-Street.

http://www.oregonlive.com/timbers/index.ssf/2011/10/timbers_to_expand_stadium_capa.html


----------



## Marckymarc

will101 said:


> Actually the 20,323 number was the capacity listed when they uncovered existing seating for end of season games for New England and Houston. But Timbers COO Mike Golub has said only that the new capacity will be "in the neighborhood" of that figure. This is courtesy of The-Newspaper-Across-The-Street.
> 
> http://www.oregonlive.com/timbers/index.ssf/2011/10/timbers_to_expand_stadium_capa.html


The stadium already seats 23,000 as is. The reduced capacity is because they have tarps covering some of the upper seats.


----------



## will101

Marckymarc said:


> The stadium already seats 23,000 as is. The reduced capacity is because they have tarps covering some of the upper seats.


This is not accurate. The refurbishment of 2001 removed a number of seats when the suite tower was created behind home plate. There are also 1-200 seats that now have obstructed views, both around the suite tower and the old football press box. The 20,323 figure from the end of last season was probably the most accurate possible.


----------



## Marckymarc

will101 said:


> The 20,323 figure from the end of last season was probably the most accurate possible.


The Portland Design Commission has stated that after the 2011 renovation (which added 5,000 seats) there were now 22,000 seats in the stadium. Whether the obstructed seats are sold or not is another story. The 20,323 figure is the "operational" capacity--meaning they leave the 677 obstructed seats unsold at "full capacity".


----------



## nyrmetros

Scoots71 said:


> Don't know if anyone knew this, but I read in the Sports Business Journal that Portland is planning on adding more seating to Jeld-Wen Field to have a capacity of 23,000.


Awesome!


----------



## master_klon

Here's the announcement for the expansion of Jeld-Wen (http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/news/2011/10/26/timbers-expanding-jeld-wen-capacity.html) :


> The Portland Timbers on Wednesday announced plans to expand the seating capacity at Jeld-Wen Field and make another 2,000 season tickets available for the club’s second Major League Soccer season.
> 
> The Timbers on Saturday concluded their inaugural season in MLS, falling just four points shy of making the league playoffs. Demand for tickets prompted the club to test expanding the stadium’s capacity for two late-season home games by opening some seats in existing sections, upping the capacity from 18,627 to 20,323.
> 
> Based on that exercise, the Timbers will now maintain that 20,000-plus capacity. In addition to opening seats in existing sections, the team said it will also explore other new seating options aimed at limiting the impact on the stadium’s concourse, which is already packed on game days.
> 
> That could include finding space in the stadium’s southeast corner, the Widmer Brothers Southern Front and the KeyBank Club Deck. The exact capacity increase won’t be known until the club decides exactly which areas will be expanded.
> 
> “After taking a detailed look at increasing capacity at the end of our first MLS season, we are comfortable with raising capacity at Jeld-Wen Field to accommodate the demand for tickets without negatively impacting the fan experience,” Timbers Chief Operating Officer Mike Golub said in a news release.


----------



## Werkself

^^
That stadium is so unique. They should build a steep stand on the right.

As a final design, I would tear down all upper rows to around 20-25 and put one steep horseshoe upper tier like in spanish stadiums. leaving that unique structure untouched.


----------



## bd popeye

Werkself said:


> ^^
> That stadium is so unique. They should build a steep stand on the right.
> 
> As a final design, I would tear down all upper rows to around 20-25 and put one steep horseshoe upper tier like in spanish stadiums. leaving that unique structure untouched.


You can't do that to this stadium. There are height restrictions in place. That is why the far grandstand in the photo above is so small. Also the present capacity is very adequate for an MLS club.


----------



## Werkself

How come in a country of Skyscrapers this area has a hight limitation? There are no houses around as I can see?


----------



## will101

Werkself said:


> How come in a country of Skyscrapers this area has a hight limitation? There are no houses around as I can see?


While Oregon does not have the earthquake issues that Alaska or California has, there are active faults and seismic regulations there. The stadium is built almost directly over a fault that runs at the eastern edge of the Portland hills.


----------



## bd popeye

> There are no houses around as I can see?


The stadium is downtown. The metro population of Portland is approximately 2,260,000 according to the 2010 census.


----------



## Pavlov's Dog

MLS has passed both the NBA and NHL and is now 3rd in average attendance among US professional leagues.

From the same article, tv viewing was also sharply up.:banana:


----------



## JJG

Pavlov's Dog said:


> MLS has passed both the NBA and NHL and is now 3rd in average attendance among US professional leagues.
> 
> From the same article, tv viewing was also sharply up.:banana:


That's good, but, there will be people mentioning the fact that MLS stadiums have MORE capacity than NBA/NHL arenas in 3... 2... 1...


----------



## Marckymarc

bd popeye said:


> *The stadium is downtown.* The metro population of Portland is approximately 2,260,000 according to the 2010 census.


Well, not technically. Anything west of the 405 isn't considered Downtown Portland. It's actually in Goose Hollow.


----------



## Darloeye

JJG said:


> That's good, but, there will be people mentioning the fact that MLS stadiums have MORE capacity than NBA/NHL arenas in 3... 2... 1...


MAJOR LEAGUE SOCCER HAS BIGGER CAPACITY STADIUMS ! :gaah: :madwife: 

Sorry had to say it, Its great to see the sport growing.


----------



## Marckymarc

Darloeye said:


> MAJOR LEAGUE SOCCER HAS BIGGER CAPACITY STADIUMS ! :gaah: :madwife:


I know, right? 

The USFL "passed the NBA and NHL in attendance" too. Didn't mean squat, but hey, it sounds good in a press release.

Not to equate the USFL with MLS, but you get the point.


----------



## ryebreadraz

The real attendance news from this season is that it broke the league's record for average attendance set in the 1996 when it got a bump from being new and novel. This despite playing more total matches and not having doubleheaders with big clubs or national teams before/after to boost attendance. It was a real 17,872 this year.

Seven teams had an increase in attendance of 5% or more and even taking away the two expansion teams the average attendance was still higher than the previous record. It's not a fair comparison to the NBA or NHL, but it's still a very impressive year for the league attendance-wise.


----------



## MS20

*ryebreadraz*



> The real attendance news from this season is that it broke the league's record for average attendance set in the 1996 when it got a bump from being new and novel.


It's also important to note that in 1996 the team had 10 teams. Today it has 18, going on 19. It may seem like slow progress, but adding 8 teams to a league tends to stall the growth of the "average attendance". For me, the real attendance news is that it cracked 5.5 million attendants. In 2010 it was just over 4 million. 

The whole NBA/NHL plays more games and therefore has more accumulative fans is always a funny argument from the anti-soccer brigade. Yes, that is technically correct, but the rule only seems to apply to soccer in the US. Its funny how they never seem to bring that up with, say, the NFL.

NFL: 17m
NHL: 20m
NBA: 21m
MLB: 70m

Does this mean that NFL is the least popular of the 4 major sports? No, of course not. Now, I'm not saying the MLS is more popular than NHL/NBA, but what I am saying is that surpassing their average attendances is a great achievement. And, with the limitations of basketball/hockey arenas, I suspect that over time that gap will slowly begin to widen. Half the NBA (15 teams) played to less than 80% capacity last year. They dont need bigger arenas. And if they did, it's just one of the limitations of basketball as a sport, and it has to live with it. 

I find it simply staggering that a country which doesn't have a storied tradition with the game - in fact, this is the country that is cited as a primary example of where soccer has failed - and whose media still doesn't recognize the sport at large, is putting up numbers that it does. Not to mention a league that does all this despite not having access to the best talent in the world. You sometimes have to awe at soccers global popularity. Even if its the biggest sport in the world already, its far and away the fastest growing, which is the scary thing. 

Well done to all involved. It's only going to get better from here


----------



## WesTexas

No US city can handle 2 MLS teams because there is not enough fans to go around. Chivas needs to move.


----------



## bd popeye

WesTexas said:


> No US city can handle 2 MLS teams because there is not enough fans to go around. Chivas needs to move.


I agree. When I lived in San Diego the MLS got little coverage on local tv. And, nationally on ESPN I feel the MLS gets marginal coverage. Here in the Midwest where I live the get 0.0001 coverage. Sad but true.


----------



## 1772

master_klon said:


> No to NY Cosmos hno:. Red Bulls New York will become the Chivas of the Eastern Conference.
> 
> Ans as much as I like the players and coaching staff of Chivas, LA supports Galaxy and it would be best to rebrand and move the players/staff to San Diego.


Since Red Bull was there first; I'd reccon the Cosmos becoming the Chivas. 
Why would NY soccer fans switch to Cosmos?


----------



## Darloeye

1772 said:


> Since Red Bull was there first; I'd reccon the Cosmos becoming the Chivas.
> Why would NY soccer fans switch to Cosmos?


Cos the Cosmos would play in New York!


----------



## massp88

bd popeye said:


> I agree. When I lived in San Diego the MLS got little coverage on local tv. And, nationally on ESPN I feel the MLS gets marginal coverage. Here in the Midwest where I live the get 0.0001 coverage. Sad but true.


European soccer gets more attention in the U.S. than the MLS does.


----------



## will101

massp88 said:


> European soccer gets more attention in the U.S. than the MLS does.


And your evidence for that is where exactly ... ?


----------



## will101

1772 said:


> Since Red Bull was there first; I'd reccon the Cosmos becoming the Chivas.
> Why would NY soccer fans switch to Cosmos?


Cosmos were the NASL team, which is the closest that we can come to a soccer tradition here. Some older fans will be attracted just because of the name.

Here the intention all along was to name the team "Earthquakes" instead of that stupid "Clash" they used. But they had to wait until the trademark on the name "Earthquakes" held by the old group had expired.


----------



## massp88

will101 said:


> And your evidence for that is where exactly ... ?


FOX soccer channel exists thanks to European soccer. Also FOX Soccer Plus. FOX pushes back baseball games to show the UEFA Champions League Final live. ESPN will show highlights of Champions League matches once the tournament gets to the later stages. Regional FOX sports networks will show live Champions League matches. I know in Boston NESN will show an EPL match once a week. 

The MLS final was put on a Sunday night at 9 pm. Look at ESPN soccernet, most of the articles are geared towards Europe. 

The English premier league matches get better ratings than the MLS matches do for ESPN.


----------



## 1772

Darloeye said:


> Cos the Cosmos would play in New York!


I was under the impression that they'd share a stadium. 

Where will the Cosmos play at?


----------



## GunnerJacket

krudmonk said:


> SJ stadium sketch filed with the Planning Department..


Are they proposing using metal bleachers? Seriously?!! 


1772 said:


> Why would NY soccer fans switch to Cosmos?


Because some of us see RBNY as not a New York team but simply a corporate billboard exploiting the New York name and location. Because Red Bull already has two other franchises around the globe reducing their NY team to something unoriginal and uninspired, which isn't becoming of NYC. Because the Cosmos were arguably the only US soccer brand with global appeal after their heyday of the 1970's.


1772 said:


> I was under the impression that they'd share a stadium.
> 
> Where will the Cosmos play at?


No way would Red Bull want this, and I'm sure they're against a Cosmos iteration in any form.

As for where the Cosmos could play that's the big hurdle to their possible return. MLS is hoping the government and the developers find a way to make a new site work for a stadium.


----------



## soup or man

bd popeye said:


> I agree. When I lived in San Diego the MLS got little coverage on local tv. And, nationally on ESPN I feel the MLS gets marginal coverage. Here in the Midwest where I live the get 0.0001 coverage. Sad but true.


Which is why I'm all for St. Louis getting a MLS team.

Does anyone else notice how there are ZERO MLS teams in the South? MLS used to have 2 (Tampa Bay Mutiny and Miami Fusion). If anything, I would like to see the Fusion come back (despite Florida's awful sports atmosphere) and a team in Charlotte.


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

GunnerJacket said:


> Are they proposing using metal bleachers? Seriously?!!


Well they only have $60 million for construction, so that is probably their only option


----------



## krudmonk

Where does that image say it'll have bleachers? Are you inferring from the sketch itself? It doesn't look that way to me, as the stands would be simply horizontal lines.

Also, there would be a whole lot more bitching at BigSoccer, since nothing is ever good enough.


----------



## slipperydog

soup or man said:


> Which is why I'm all for St. Louis getting a MLS team.
> 
> Does anyone else notice how there are ZERO MLS teams in the South? MLS used to have 2 (Tampa Bay Mutiny and Miami Fusion). If anything, I would like to see the Fusion come back (despite Florida's awful sports atmosphere) and a team in Charlotte.


Tampa and Miami are not the South. They are retirement communities for Jews from New York.


----------



## kerouac1848

Tbh, it didn't even feel like I was in the US when I visited Miami.


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

krudmonk said:


> Where does that image say it'll have bleachers? Are you inferring from the sketch itself? It doesn't look that way to me, as the stands would be simply horizontal lines.
> 
> Also, there would be a whole lot more bitching at BigSoccer, since nothing is ever good enough.


It says it right on the drawings. I'm surprised nobody at BigSoccer said anything.









http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/2174/stadiumprofilesightline.jpg


----------



## krudmonk

Perhaps that's a little loose on the language, because now it's confirmed [via letter to season ticket-holders] that there will be field-level suites, not just box seats. I can't imagine there being bleachers just above that. New images alleged to come out tomorrow morning.


----------



## carnifex2005

The renders are finally out for the new San Jose Earthquakes stadium. I grabbed these from this Big Soccer thread. Here's the story from the local San Jose newspaper.









This artist's rendering depicts the view from the soccer pitch looking into one of the luxury suites for the proposed new soccer stadium for the San Jose Earthquakes. (Courtesy San Jose Earthquakes)










This artist's rendering depicts the view of the soccer pitch from one of the luxury suites for the proposed soccer stadium for the San Jose Earthquakes that owner Lew Wolff hopes to build in San Jose. (Courtesy San Jose Earthquakes)









This artist's rendering depicts the interior of one of the luxury suites for the proposed new soccer stadium. The suites go on sale Nov. 29, 2011. (Courtesy San Jose Earthquakes)


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

krudmonk said:


> Perhaps that's a little loose on the language, because now it's confirmed [via letter to season ticket-holders] that there will be field-level suites, not just box seats. I can't imagine there being bleachers just above that. New images alleged to come out tomorrow morning.


From the new renderings it looks like they will be bleachers with seat backs.


----------



## slipperydog

So when are they starting actual construction?

Also, with suites at the field level, there seems like there could be the potential for a lot of broken windows.


----------



## old school

slipperydog said:


> Tampa and Miami are not the South. They are retirement communities for Jews from New York.


:nuts::nuts::nuts:
hno:hno:hno:


----------



## old school

kerouac1848 said:


> Tbh, it didn't even feel like I was in the US when I visited Miami.


:nuts::nuts::nuts:
hno:hno:hno:


----------



## joezierer

old school said:


> :nuts::nuts::nuts:
> hno:hno:hno:


No that's actually accurate. Florida is _not_ the south. Just like Southern California isn't the south.


----------



## RaiderATO

joezierer said:


> No that's actually accurate. Florida is _not_ the south. Just like Southern California isn't the south.


I imagine he was rolling his eyes at the "Jews" comment, and how he didn't feel like he was in America. What does America feel like anyways?

Ignorant things to say.


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

slipperydog said:


> So when are they starting actual construction?
> 
> Also, with suites at the field level, there seems like there could be the potential for a lot of broken windows.


Apparently as long as all the approvals go through, construction should start next year. The construction is supposed to last up to a year and be done in time for the 2013 season.


----------



## mattec

joezierer said:


> No that's actually accurate. Florida is _not_ the south. Just like Southern California isn't the south.


ehhh..... interior and nw florida are very much the south


----------



## kerouac1848

RaiderATO said:


> and how he didn't feel like he was in America. What does America feel like anyways?
> 
> Ignorant things to say.


I was just being a bit cheeky (probably like the other guy), don't worry.


----------



## hngcm

ElDudarinodotcom said:


> From the new renderings it looks like they will be bleachers with seat backs.


That's awful...

Do seats really cost that much?


----------



## slipperydog

kerouac1848 said:


> I was just being a bit cheeky (probably like the other guy), don't worry.


Yup, some uptight fellas on here. Plus I AM a Jew, who's family is from NY.


----------



## Marckymarc

WesTexas said:


> No US city can handle 2 MLS teams because there is not enough fans to go around. Chivas needs to move.


Chivas as LA's "second banana" team is drawing just as well as DC and Colorado, and _better_ than Chicago, New England, Dallas, Columbus and San Jose.

They'd probably be doing much better with a stadium of their own in someplace like the Inland Empire.

LA is plenty big enough for 2 MLS teams.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Marckymarc said:


> Chivas as LA's "second banana" team is drawing just as well as DC and Colorado, and _better_ than Chicago, New England, Dallas, Columbus and San Jose.
> 
> They'd probably be doing much better with a stadium of their own in someplace like the Inland Empire.
> 
> LA is plenty big enough for 2 MLS teams.


Meh, I'm still with the camp that Chivas would do great with their own place in San Diego. If the Chargers end up heading to LA, then why not a Chivas stadium on the site downtown where they had planned to put the chargers stadium? If not there, then perhaps one of the suburbs between LA and SD


----------



## metros11

WesTexas said:


> No US city can handle 2 MLS teams because there is not enough fans to go around. Chivas needs to move.


The situation in LA is quite different because the Galaxy and Chivas share the stadium. Here the Red Bulls play in New Jersey, and the proposed location for the other team would be across two rivers in NY.



bd popeye said:


> I agree. When I lived in San Diego the MLS got little coverage on local tv. And, nationally on ESPN I feel the MLS gets marginal coverage. Here in the Midwest where I live the get *0.0001 *coverage. Sad but true.


And in New York the Red Bulls probably get half of that. Hence the need for another team.



soup or man said:


> Which is why I'm all for St. Louis getting a MLS team.
> 
> Does anyone else notice how there are ZERO MLS teams in the South? MLS used to have 2 (Tampa Bay Mutiny and Miami Fusion). If anything, I would like to see the Fusion come back (despite Florida's awful sports atmosphere) and a team in Charlotte.


There is a reason MLS left Tampa and Miami. Same reason they're not coming back to those markets.



krudmonk said:


> Where does that image say it'll have bleachers? Are you inferring from the sketch itself? It doesn't look that way to me, as the stands would be simply horizontal lines.
> 
> Also, there would be a whole lot more bitching at BigSoccer, since nothing is ever good enough.





ElDudarinodotcom said:


> It says it right on the drawings. I'm surprised nobody at BigSoccer said anything.





ElDudarinodotcom said:


> From the new renderings it looks like they will be bleachers with seat backs.


I guess it all depends on your definition of 'bleachers'. Are they going to put benches with back support like they did in Columbus...










... or are they going to install individual seats on top of steel risers like those in the upper bowl of Red Bull Arena?










Either way, I like the way this stadium will look.


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

^^I didn't realize redbull arena had metal risers in the top bowl. It would be nice if SJ took their route, but I have a feeling with the cost of the stadium that the seats will probably be benches.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

Marckymarc said:


> Chivas as LA's "second banana" team is drawing just as well as DC and Colorado, and _better_ than Chicago, New England, Dallas, Columbus and San Jose.
> 
> They'd probably be doing much better with a stadium of their own in someplace like the Inland Empire.
> 
> LA is plenty big enough for 2 MLS teams.


Agreed. i dont understand why most people here wnat NYC to have a second team when LA's second team draws nearly as well as NYC's first team.

Anyways, Chivas will probably get a new stadium at Expo park, replacing the Sports arena.


----------



## old school

slipperydog said:


> Yup, some uptight fellas on here. Plus I AM a Jew, who's family is from NY.


Yeah, right...

This ain't the Hinds county mississippi Tea party or your local country club...

This is the internet, open to people from all over the world...


----------



## old school

kerouac1848 said:


> I was just being a bit cheeky (probably like the other guy), don't worry.


I didn't feel like I was in America when I was in Highland Park Texas...


----------



## hngcm

BoulderGrad said:


> Meh, I'm still with the camp that Chivas would do great with their own place in San Diego. If the Chargers end up heading to LA, then why not a Chivas stadium on the site downtown where they had planned to put the chargers stadium? If not there, then perhaps one of the suburbs between LA and SD


I will hate the team solely based on the fact that it will never replace the Chargers.


----------



## slipperydog

Montreal will release their uniform tomorrow. It will be streamed on the team's official website

http://www.impactmontreal.com/en/news/2011/12/watch-jersey-launch


----------



## rantanamo

old school said:


> I didn't feel like I was in America when I was in Highland Park Texas...


where else in the world could Highland Park even possibly exist?


----------



## JJG

old school said:


> I didn't feel like I was in America when I was in Highland Park Texas...


Um.... ok?

:?


----------



## soup or man

joezierer said:


> No that's actually accurate. Florida is _not_ the south. Just like Southern California isn't the south.


Florida IS the South. North Florida is very much Southern.


----------



## slipperydog

soup or man said:


> Florida IS the South. North Florida is very much Southern.


We were talking about Tampa and Miami. Since that's where the MLS teams were located. There have been no MLS teams in the South as of yet, which is why many are calling for them. I think Nashville, Charlotte, or Atlanta would be good choices.


----------



## joezierer

I don't know about Nashville but Charlotte has a NASL or USL-Pro level team that has 0 support from the locals and Atlanta doesn't have a stadium. Technically it does, but no one wants to play there.

I'm talking about Herndon Stadium, btw.


----------



## KingmanIII

joezierer said:


> I don't know about Nashville but Charlotte has a NASL or USL-Pro level team that has 0 support from the locals and Atlanta doesn't have a stadium. Technically it does, but no one wants to play there.
> 
> I'm talking about Herndon Stadium, btw.


Georgia State would do well to move there...

[/offtopic]


----------



## GunnerJacket

joezierer said:


> I don't know about Nashville but Charlotte has a NASL or USL-Pro level team that has 0 support from the locals and Atlanta doesn't have a stadium. Technically it does, but no one wants to play there.
> 
> I'm talking about Herndon Stadium, btw.


FWIW, the Atlanta Silverbacks have a 5k seat venue of their own. The location isn't even MLS worthy, let alone the stadium, but it is their own.


----------



## old school

rantanamo said:


> where else in the world could Highland Park even possibly exist?


See post #5413


----------



## old school

JJG said:


> Um.... ok?
> 
> :?



see post #5413


----------



## joezierer

GunnerJacket said:


> FWIW, the Atlanta Silverbacks have a 5k seat venue of their own. The location isn't even MLS worthy, let alone the stadium, but it is their own.


Yeah I said Atlanta doesn't have a stadium. ReMax Greater Atlanta is in the suburbs which isn't "in Atlanta".


----------



## Bobby3

Charlotte's USL team is a religious organization, as with any religious organization, it's polarizing. That, and a number of other factors like the stadium: The team is rather transient, they've had about 8 homes. The most long term of them was Waddell, which isn't exactly a fun area. Currently they use Charlotte Christian's Restart Field, which is tiny and suffers from poor accessibility. Plus even if they wanted to sell booze, they couldn't. UNC Charlotte's crowds aren't bad though, and we've supported internationals very well, so there's support for soccer here.

We don't have enough interest from investors to get an MLS team though, but we have more of a chance of getting an MLS team than that pipe dream MLB idea a lawyer keeps pitching. The banking bubble hit us HARD (if you live in Charlotte, chances are you know multiple bank workers), people don't care about stuff like this right now and even if it pains be to say it, rightly so.


----------



## SIC

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> Agreed. i dont understand why most people here wnat NYC to have a second team when LA's second team draws nearly as well as NYC's first team.
> 
> Anyways, Chivas will probably get a new stadium at Expo park, replacing the Sports arena.


Because a lot of people feel that Red Bull owning that team is a travesty that should be aborted, but since that isn't likely anytime soon. A second team way on the other side of the metro area will garner some needed attention in the largest market in the country.

Honestly can conceive of a second NY team in Queens outdrawing the red bulls in Harrison. Secondly, a NYC derby will draw more media attention to the city and the league. Especially if that second team spends money on players like Red Bull does.

But most importantly, because metro/RB have always had a joke of an organization that has turned off a lot of would be fans. A new team with a name like the "cosmos" has a better than average shot of selling out it's stadium. Let's face it, if a team like Philly can sell out it's games from a suburb like chester, then a second team in NYC doing so is not far fetched.


----------



## SIC

massp88 said:


> European soccer gets more attention in the U.S. than the MLS does.


And Mexican soccer gets even more coverage than European soccer. European soccer is nothing compared to the popularity of Mexican soccer, the ratings prove it, the attendance prove it. In fact, that is MLS real rival, it doesn't matter Eurosnobs will be eurosnobs.

But if MLS proves itself better than the Mexican league than watch out, imagine how many more people will tune in and attend.


----------



## mhays

You must be near Mexico. In Seattle, news coverage and game broadcasts are MLS #1 (we're an outlier of course), then Premier/Champions, then local colleges. The Mexican league isn't mentioned that I've noticed.


----------



## slipperydog

SIC said:


> Because a lot of people feel that Red Bull owning that team is a travesty that should be aborted, but since that isn't likely anytime soon. A second team way on the other side of the metro area will garner some needed attention in the largest market in the country.
> 
> Honestly can conceive of a second NY team in Queens outdrawing the red bulls in Harrison. Secondly, a NYC derby will draw more media attention to the city and the league. Especially if that second team spends money on players like Red Bull does.
> 
> But most importantly, because metro/RB have always had a joke of an organization that has turned off a lot of would be fans. A new team with a name like the "cosmos" has a better than average shot of selling out it's stadium. Let's face it, if a team like Philly can sell out it's games from a suburb like chester, then a second team in NYC doing so is not far fetched.


Agreed. I have a strong suspicision that had the club a) not been located in New Jersey, and b) not been corporate-branded, that they would be far more popular and draw a lot more than they do now.


----------



## GunnerJacket

SIC said:


> And Mexican soccer gets even more coverage than European soccer.


only in the sense that most cable and satellite packages carry the major Spanish speaking stations, which broadcast their games to the Latino populace within the USA. However this doesn't automatically translate into what non-Latino soccer fans are watching or rating. More importantly, mainstream US sports channels will note stories from Europe but not so much Mexico. Case in point:

- ESPN2's broadcasts of the Premier League and former coverage of the UCL.
- Primary soccer stations FSC and GOL cover Premiership, La Liga, Bundesliga and Serie A. True, if they had primary rights to some Mexican matches they might show those, but for now US Soccer fans main outlets focus on those leagues.
- ESPN's main www.soccernet.com page defaults to news about the Premiership and UEFA Champions League, and these pages recieve far more traffic than those for the Mexican league.
- The very high ratings and exposure of Euro tournaments in the US.

Basically there's two subsets of soccer fans in the USA - Latinos who will follow the Mexican league and other South/Central American leagues, and non-Latinos who thus far seem much more attune to the UEFA leagues. The former may be larger in its numbers and consumption, but it's also a decidedly ethnic market and not yet considered US maintstream.



> European soccer is nothing compared to the popularity of Mexican soccer, the ratings prove it, the attendance prove it.


I'd actually like to see you back up those claims. European teams have drawn very well here, and I've seen nothing to suggest the popularity of Mexican clubs among their displaced fans in the US is so overwhelming as to move your average US kid to by a Cruz Azul or Monterey Jersey. Hell, I live in a city with a little Mexico and it's own small Latino rec league, and their kids sport as many Barca and Milan jerseys as they do anything from Mexico.

I'm not saying your wrong in actual numbers, but I'll contend that the Mexican league is no where close to making headway with average US soccer fans versus their US counterparts. Among the league I ref, non-Latino's talk of Beckham, Aquero, Messi, Ronaldo, Rooney, etc. It's too much an ethnic divide at this point, still.


----------



## master_klon

*Dynamo Stadium exterior skin installation:*
































































I know that the terracing under the roof needs to be removable for concerts, but I can't believe that they would ruin the rest of the south end as well as the north end, by not using concrete terracing.


----------



## SIC

GunnerJacket;86495654[B said:


> ]only in the sense that most cable and satellite packages carry the major Spanish speaking stations, which broadcast their games to the Latino populace within the USA. However this doesn't automatically translate into what non-Latino soccer fans are watching or rating. More importantly, mainstream US sports channels will note stories from Europe but not so much Mexico. [/B]Case in point:
> 
> - ESPN2's broadcasts of the Premier League and former coverage of the UCL.
> - Primary soccer stations FSC and GOL cover Premiership, La Liga, Bundesliga and Serie A. True, if they had primary rights to some Mexican matches they might show those, but for now US Soccer fans main outlets focus on those leagues.
> - ESPN's main www.soccernet.com page defaults to news about the Premiership and UEFA Champions League, and these pages recieve far more traffic than those for the Mexican league.
> - The very high ratings and exposure of Euro tournaments in the US.
> 
> Basically there's two subsets of soccer fans in the USA - Latinos who will follow the Mexican league and other South/Central American leagues, and non-Latinos who thus far seem much more attune to the UEFA leagues. The former may be larger in its numbers and consumption, but it's also a decidedly ethnic market and not yet considered US maintstream.
> 
> I'd actually like to see you back up those claims. European teams have drawn very well here, and I've seen nothing to suggest the popularity of Mexican clubs among their displaced fans in the US is so overwhelming as to move your average US kid to by a Cruz Azul or Monterey Jersey. Hell, I live in a city with a little Mexico and it's own small Latino rec league, and their kids sport as many Barca and Milan jerseys as they do anything from Mexico.
> 
> I'm not saying your wrong in actual numbers, but I'll contend that the Mexican league is no where close to making headway with average US soccer fans versus their US counterparts. Among the league I ref, non-Latino's talk of Beckham, Aquero, Messi, Ronaldo, Rooney, etc. It's too much an ethnic divide at this point, still.


They show Mexican League games over the air in the major markets in the USA. NYC, Chicago and in cities with large Latino population. I'm not talking about your average middle-class suburban white kid, he will most likely not identify. I can see where your coming from, you don't speak spanish, you're not from Mexico and you don't care about Mexican soccer (most likely) and to most Americans thats true. But that doesn't take away the fact that the sheer numbers of eyeballs watching Mexican soccer is bigger than those getting up at 7am to watch Manchester/Arsenal/Chelsea whatever taking on Wigan/Villa/Bolton or whatever.
I was not talking about the Mexican league becoming "mainstream" but the fact that in sheer ratings and revenue the largest and most successful soccer product in the United States is South of the Border and not across the pond. So that makes it MLS biggest rival for money and on the field (since they actually play each other in games that matter).
But what I am talking about is the effect that 12-13 million Mexican immigrants living in the us and their children following their old countries league is immense and that their appetite for soccer in omnivorous.
My point was that there aren't that many non-hispanic "eurosnobs" compared to the numbers of "mexicophiles", so Mexico should worry about converting the latter more than the former. *Honestly, it's going to be really really and almost impossibly hard for MLS and the USA nat team to be better than Europe. Topping Mexico is a more realistic goal.*

Here is the number for a game between Chivas and Club America.


> The Club America-Chivas Guadalajara match, dubbed the superclasico because the match pits the two biggest professional soccer clubs in Mexico, *drew 2.048 million U.S. TV households (1.8% rating), and 3.956 million U.S. TV viewers age 2 and over when it aired live in the U.S. on Univision *on Sunday December 10 at 9pm Eastern Time/6pm Pacific Time.
> 
> Not only did the viewership of the superclasico surpass the viewership of any other professional club soccer match on U.S. television (including both Major League Soccer and the Mexican First Division) in the past 12 years, the US TV viewership of *the match surpassed the U.S. TV viewership of every National Hockey League (NHL) telecast on both NBC Sports and OLN (now known as Versus) during the 2005-2006 NHL season with the exception of Game 7 of the 2006 Stanley Cup Final series on NBC Sports (which drew 5.45 million viewers age 2 and over).*


(http://www.soccer24-7.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123248)

This was a game between Club America and Pachuca that garnered a 1.9 million rating on TV Azteca which is not nearly as common as univison. It's mostly cable.
http://clemenseando.typepad.com/clemenseando/hispanic_ratings_watch/

http://www.rbr.com/tv-cable/tv-cabl...futbol-estelar-chivas-vs-tigres-delivers.html


> The "Fútbol Estelar: Chivas vs. Tigres" match aired from 8:00pm - 10:05pm and averaged 968,000 total viewers (persons 2+) and 664,000 adults 18-49. *Locally, the quarterfinal game between Chivas and Tigres outperformed the combined delivery of ABC, CBS and Fox in the time period on KVEA in Los Angeles among adults 18-49 and delivered a 31% share of the television audience[*/QUOTE]
> 
> It's important to point out that between audiences that are between 18-49, Univision is the best and highest rated network. Soccer and Telenovelas is their bread and butter. Mexican soccer specifically (mexican league and mexican NT).
> 
> http://www.avclub.com/articles/ratings-roundup-univision-is-a-big-tv-success-stor,64993/
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/10/univision-tops-all-networ_n_711926.html
> 
> Actually the Latino population makeup a lot of the numbers of those watching all sorts of soccer in the USA. MLS, USNT, EPL, CL and etc. 1/3 of MLS audience is latino and it's been that way since day one. Notice that all the the ratings for EPL matches a point to single out the ESPN deportes or Fox Sports espanol number.
> 
> http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...ague-viewership-record-on-u-s-cable-tv/75825/
> 
> The Mexican national team is arguable the most popular soccer team in the United States.
> http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/06/25/3178405/mexico-soccer-team-might-be-americas.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The No. 1 primetime program Wednesday among young adults wasn't some reality show.
> 
> Nope, Spanish-language Univision won the night with its coverage of the Gold Cup match between Mexico and Honduras with 10.9 million viewers. In three groups -- those 12-34, adults 18-34 and men 18-34 -- the game had more viewers than ABC, CBS and Fox combined.
> 
> Among men 18-24 in the Metroplex, the game had twice the viewership of ABC, CBS, Fox and NBC combined among.
> 
> Univision had similar results June 18 for its coverage of the quarterfinal between Mexico and Guatemala.
> 
> So when 10 million or more tune in tonight, understand that "America's Team" isn't the one from the United States.
> 
> Read more: http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/0...cer-team-might-be-americas.html#ixzz1gBbex8lm
> 
> 
> 
> http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...rs-and-a-3-6-18-49-rating-on-univision/96631/
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/28/us-soccer-mexico-business-idUSTRE75R0Z520110628
> 
> 8 million viewers for a non-world cup soccer match and neither team was from Europe. Anyway, *my thesis was that the MLS and US soccer don't have to worry about the Euro leagues. They only have to worry about being demonstrably better than Mexico and those fans who have grown up in the US will start watching MLS and USNT and their ratings will soar.
> Because comparably speaking much lesser amounts of non-latinos watch euro soccer in the first place and those numbers are nelgible compared to the 4-5 million that watch mexican league and Mexican NT games in this country consistently.*
Click to expand...


----------



## GunnerJacket

SIC said:


> Anyway, *my thesis was that the MLS and US soccer don't have to worry about the Euro leagues. They only have to worry about being demonstrably better than Mexico and those fans who have grown up in the US will start watching MLS and USNT and their ratings will soar.
> Because comparably speaking much lesser amounts of non-latinos watch euro soccer in the first place and those numbers are nelgible compared to the 4-5 million that watch mexican league and Mexican NT games in this country consistently.*


Now we're getting somewhere. 

First off, thank you for the exhaustive research. Well done! :cheers:

I've just deleted a rambling post to come back to this: MLS must worry about both (Primera Division and UEFA) for different reasons. The former in wrestling for fan allegiance and appeal to Latinos in the USA, the latter for stealing prime talent away and commanding the headlines and air time on the outlets MLS covets. Just as economics and georgraphy means MLS has a chance to match Mexico in some regards (attendance), those same forces mean MLS can and must wrest away as much local fan attention as possible from the other leagues currently ruling the English-speaking outlets. Especially as MLS will always be #2 or lower on the Spanish outlets.

That last point is where the nature of the Primera Division being a threat/obstacle to MLS seems, IMO, false, simply because MLS will never replace that league to its fans and if anything both leagues understand they're better off with a strong local rival league. In other words, MLS growth will not be determined by Mexico's club soccer, but rather the ability of MLS to make it's own brand among fans within the US. Whatever competition exists between the two is for a marginal fanbase that will end up supporting both, for the hard-core fans will likely never sway.

Yes, the Primera Division is a rival to the MLS, but for what MLS is trying to realistically achieve in the USA their main objective right now is to climb the rankings among fans who don't have a Primera Division devotion that can be permanently fed. As Garber and co. have put it, they want to move up from the being the 8th or 9th highlight on FSC Report to being about 1-3, knowing fans will be paying attention. Then they'll have their niche status comparable to the NHL, and can more realistically turn to the Primera Division and look at Latinos in the US and say "Game on!"

One man's read on it all, anyway.


----------



## eMKay

Yeah SIC, Nice research there. So basically, all the MLS has to really do is get some of those top MEXICAN stars instead of European stars, and the popularity of the league will dramatically increase?


----------



## Otto Racecar

It would be interesting to see if blanco had any major impact on attendance or ratings when he played for chicago.


----------



## vanbasten88

eMKay said:


> Yeah SIC, Nice research there. So basically, all the MLS has to really do is get some of those top MEXICAN stars instead of European stars, and the popularity of the league will dramatically increase?



I think MLS and the A-League are in similar boats. The goal of both leagues should be to provide interesting attractive soccer that will tempt locals to experience live Soccer if they've seen it on TV. In both our countries, people tend to look first towards either England or UEFA Champions League to see 'the best'. Your country has the advantage of 300mil population, with our 22mil, we will never have the financial muscle to match offers from Europe for our best players though. A vibrant, viable and solid league will lead to the local junior players using both leagues as a starting point. The concentration of Euro Soccer smarts(it is the centre of Soccer in the world) means that the best players from both our countries will always want to test themselves against the best. If we get our leagues right though, we'll get to watch them develop and then when they have had a Euro career, there wont be any stigma in returning home to play out their careers in the home leagues. Like Keane and Henry, the lifestyles in our countries might help tempt a few stars in their twighlight seeking a new challenge. A prime example [of the junior developing] is a young player here called Mustafa Amini from the Central Coast Mariners FC. He is a gun midfielder and Dortmund from Germany loved him when he trialed. But rather than snap him up and have him sit on the bench[behind the likes of Mario Götze and Antônio da Silva], they bought him and loaned him directly back to the Mariners for this season so he will get another year of development playing 80-90 minutes/game in the midfield of the Mariners..he's having a great season so far and will join BVB in July of 2012, ready for pre-season with the Germans. We see that as a big vote of confidence in the work the A-League is doing in developing players and the rising quality of the league here after only 7 years.


----------



## michał_

eMKay said:


> So it's all on one floor? What difference does it make.


Waste of space? That does make a difference for future redevelopment and there are few leagues in the world developing as fast as the US one. 

Unless this being a necessity due to the reasoning bd popeye and Benn gave, of course.


----------



## bd popeye

michał_;87077585 said:


> Waste of space? That does make a difference for future redevelopment and there are few leagues in the world developing as fast as the US one.
> 
> Unless this being a necessity due to the reasoning bd popeye and Benn gave, of course.


Thanks.. and it is also a cost cutting move....


----------



## BoulderGrad

slipperydog said:


> When will the new Houston and Montreal stadiums open? Season starts in March.


Houston's home opener will be May12th. They will play the first few months of the season on the road like Sporting KC did this year before LiveStrong park opened.

Saputo stadium will open mid season as well, but the opening date still seems to be undetermined. The Impact will play at Stade Olympique for their home venue until it opens.


----------



## Scba

Would have been cool if they could have played a few games at the Astrodome


----------



## jay stew

Scba said:


> Would have been cool if they could have played a few games at the Astrodome


The Astrodome is closed. Way too many code violations.

http://www.chron.com/business/real-...dome-may-have-seen-its-last-rodeo-1731058.php


----------



## michał_

bd popeye said:


> Thanks.. and it is also a cost cutting move....


True, but only in the short term. Making redevelopment harder = elevating costs...


----------



## slipperydog

MLS schedule released, and opening day for the Compass is May 12 vs. DC United


----------



## carnifex2005

The San Antonio Scorpions FC of the NASL (US Div 2) have revealed their stadium construction plans (clearly with an eye to moving up to MLS in the future). The stadium will start construction in the spring.



















Phase I: 6100 seats, 16 VIP Suites
Phase II: 9000 seats, 16 VIP Suites
Phase III: 11000 seats, 34 VIP Suites
Phase IV: 14000 seats, 34 VIP Suites
Phase V: 18000 seats, 34 VIP Suites


----------



## WesTexas

nice...strange plan.


----------



## JJG

carnifex2005 said:


> The San Antonio Scorpions FC of the NASL (US Div 2) have revealed their stadium construction plans (clearly with an eye to moving up to MLS in the future). The stadium will start construction in the spring.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phase I: 6100 seats, 16 VIP Suites
> Phase II: 9000 seats, 16 VIP Suites
> Phase III: 11000 seats, 34 VIP Suites
> Phase IV: 14000 seats, 34 VIP Suites
> Phase V: 18000 seats, 34 VIP Suites


...future UTSA football games, perhaps?

Nah, too small. And it does look wierd, but it's constricted because of roads.


----------



## ryebreadraz

It looks like open grass next to the road. Couldn't they rebuild that road over there to clear room behind the goal? It would make for a much better stadium.


----------



## master_klon

^^ I think that expansion will be restricted only by a road on the main grandstand side, so there should be no problems.


----------



## ryebreadraz

master_klon said:


> ^^ I think that expansion will be restricted only by a road on the main grandstand side, so there should be no problems.


Well there is that road behind the goal and there's no planned seating there so clearly it is an obstacle. Comparatively, the building of a short road that redirects it and clear space for a stand behind the goal shouldn't be too expensive. I wish they would do it because their final phase is horribly ugly.


----------



## slipperydog

*Opening Summer 2012*










_*Riverhounds Announce Stadium Plans, soccer-specific $7.5 million stadium opening this summer*_

http://www.uslsoccer.com/home/589759.html

http://www.stationsquare.com/


----------



## slipperydog

More renderings of Pittsburgh stadium:
http://www.wtae.com/sports/30170648/detail.html

More information:
http://www.wpxi.com/news/30175984/detail.html


----------



## GunnerJacket

Very cool! I'm really hoping that we'll see a resolution between NASL and USL that creates a 2nd division behind MLS (right now both are considered 3rd div.). There are certainly enough capable, respectable teams to make this happen but I can easily see some of them folding if this fracture inhibts fan appeal and prosperity. The NASL sides appear stronger financially but certainly at least half the USL sides (Rochester, Charlotte, Charleston, Richmond, Pittsburgh...) are there as well. At the least, I hate seeing either of these clubs missing out on some closer rivalries and possibly more entertaining schedules due to disagreements about league administration.

Hope springs eternal, and news like this is good for US soccer regardless.


----------



## WorldCupWatcher

master_klon said:


> ^^ I think that expansion will be restricted only by a road on the main grandstand side, so there should be no problems.


Is there room to move that road a bit to make room for a stand behind the goal. In my opinion a stadium with only three sides is incomplete


----------



## JJG

WorldCupWatcher said:


> Is there room to move that road a bit to make room for a stand behind the goal. In my opinion a stadium with only three sides is incomplete


....you're not an American, are you? :lol:

But seriously, I think it's best to move that street if they need more seats.


----------



## master_klon

WorldCupWatcher said:


> Is there room to move that road a bit to make room for a stand behind the goal. In my opinion a stadium with only three sides is incomplete


They have plenty of room on that side.

If you are interested try google maps: 'South Texas Area Regional Soccer Complex, San Antonio, TX, United States'. The stadium is parallel to Thousand Oaks Drive, the road on the left of the render. The road on the south will be created for access to the stadium carpark, soccer complex and a special-needs fun park, but a large area of land surrounding the stadium is bare, so a new road could easily be constructed.


----------



## WorldCupWatcher

JJG said:


> ....you're not an American, are you? :lol:
> 
> But seriously, I think it's best to move that street if they need more seats.


No, how'd you figured


----------



## metros11

GunnerJacket said:


> Very cool! I'm really hoping that we'll see a resolution between NASL and USL that creates a 2nd division behind MLS ...


That's not likely to happen any time soon.


----------



## GunnerJacket

metros11 said:


> That's not likely to happen any time soon.


By their own volition, no, but I don't suspect it will be long before 1-2 teams move and then the dominoes fall. Either one league will prove more profitable and will draw some from the other, or both leagues will struggle and there will be contraction to the point where they'll have to merge. Such is life when squabbling over table scraps.


----------



## JJG

WorldCupWatcher said:


> No, how'd you figured


Just a guess....:lol:


----------



## slipperydog

New sponsor for Chicago:


----------



## Darloeye

^^^^ Thats along run with a soccer ball. Think Quakers Oats should sponsor my local soccer team since were nicknamed the Quakers anyway and my local pub is called The Quaker House


----------



## BoulderGrad

So that makes these current shirt sponsors:

Chivas USA: Corona 
Chicago Fire: Quaker Oats
DC United: Volkswagen
Houston Dynamo: Greenstar Recycling
LA Galaxy: Herbalife
Montreal Impact: BMO
New England Revolution: United Healthcare
Redbull New York: Red Bull
Philadelphia Union: Bimbo
Portland Timbers: Alaska Airlines
Real Salt Lake: Xango
San Jose Eathquakes: Amway
Seattle Sounders: Xbox
Toronto FC: BMO (We can call it the money bowl wen they play Montreal)
Vancouver: Bell

Teams still without with some ideas for who:
Colorado (CenturyLink, Lockheed Martin, Frontier Airlines, Dicks)
Columbus (Chevy, Nationwide Insurance) 
FC Dallas (Exxon, AT&T, Dell, American Airlines, Southwest Airlines) 
Sporting KC (Livestrong, Sprint, HOK Sport)


----------



## slipperydog

Jersey sponsorship a top priority for Hinchey, Rapids

After deal fell through in 2011, new president says shirt his "absolute focus" 

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/01/17/jersey-sponsorship-top-priority-hinchey-rapids


----------



## master_klon

I'm not from America so I haven't heard of the Quakers brand, but it sounds like a good sponsor. Might need to put the Quakes game on my calendar (Chicago vs San Jose). :lol:

Here's some recent exterior pictures of the BBVA Compass Stadium, Houston: 









http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w199/andrewjackson1961/

Good to see light rail come past the stadium. Will the carpark on the left be available for use by the stadium too?









http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w199/andrewjackson1961/


----------



## sporty780

Quaker Oats! Cool!!

The only Cereal Company in the world to have produced a movie. Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory!


----------



## WesTexas

FC Dallas put ESPNDallas.com on their jerseys for a while to promote the launching of the site. I would like to see Southwest Air on theirs.


----------



## BoulderGrad

slipperydog said:


> Jersey sponsorship a top priority for Hinchey, Rapids
> 
> After deal fell through in 2011, new president says shirt his "absolute focus"
> 
> http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/01/17/jersey-sponsorship-top-priority-hinchey-rapids


Comments thread added a few ideas. 

New Belgium or Coors would be cool. It seems Budweiser is the official beer sponsor of MLS, but as best I can tell Corona is under the Coors overlord-dom so mixing sponors seems to go over okay. New Belgium seems to fit with the target demographic of MLS.


----------



## IrishMan2010

Just curious, how come North American stadiums never have full roofs over them? Reminds me of Italian/Spanish/Southern French, and other Mediterranean countries.


----------



## WesTexas

In America, we dont see the need for roofs. If it rains, snows or the sun shines to hot, O well, that is all part of the game experience.


----------



## Hindustani

WesTexas said:


> In America, we dont see the need for roofs. If it rains, snows or the sun shines to hot, O well, that is all part of the game experience.


amen bro

instead, we want huge full HD widescreen display in all corners. 

seen so many NFL games decided by snow, rain & extreme chill. all part & parcel of a sport.


----------



## JJG

IrishMan2010 said:


> Just curious, how come North American stadiums never have full roofs over them? Reminds me of Italian/Spanish/Southern French, and other Mediterranean countries.


Again, when this question was brought up in the Metlife Stadium thread....


----------



## Topher51

IrishMan2010 said:


> Just curious, how come North American stadiums never have full roofs over them? Reminds me of Italian/Spanish/Southern French, and other Mediterranean countries.


Unlike your lovely homeland, it doesn't rain all that much in most places in the US. That and since the soccer season isn't played in the winter here, when it does rain it isn't all that cold. 

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to sit in the rain at a February match in Dublin either, but that would be snow here and that isn't unpleasant. It's pretty fun, actually.


----------



## IrishMan2010

WesTexas said:


> In America, we dont see the need for roofs. If it rains, snows or the sun shines to hot, O well, that is all part of the game experience.


But stadiums with roofs over them create a better atmosphere, all the sound gets trapped under the roof and transferred onto the pitch. Here in Ireland we have small football stadiums and the ones which are tightly packed with roofs over them create amazing atmospheres.


----------



## IrishMan2010

Topher51 said:


> Unlike your lovely homeland, it doesn't rain all that much in most places in the US. That and since the soccer season isn't played in the winter here, when it does rain it isn't all that cold.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to sit in the rain at a February match in Dublin either, but that would be snow here and that isn't unpleasant. It's pretty fun, actually.


Yeah true it's just a different culture I suppose, interesting to compare!


----------



## WesTexas

IrishMan2010 said:


> But stadiums with roofs over them create a better atmosphere, all the sound gets trapped under the roof and transferred onto the pitch. Here in Ireland we have small football stadiums and the ones which are tightly packed with roofs over them create amazing atmospheres.


In America, you dont go to a game just to watch the game, but for the experience of the game. Watching a rain game and not getting soaked to the bone makes me feel like i got jipped. Same for snow and sun. 

As far as sound. There are open air stadiums here that are louder than any partial roof stadium in the world.


----------



## joezierer

Because we don't care about having a roof over the stadium.

That is literally the only reason. Older baseball stadiums had a roof but overtime people decided to stop using them.

My burning question is why do people ask this exact question in every. single. thread relating to american sports?


----------



## WesTexas

So who is the next US team to build or add on to their soccer specific stadium?


----------



## joezierer

Houston is building theirs and San Jose is still talking about theirs. I don't think they've started yet.


----------



## GunnerJacket

WesTexas said:


> So who is the next US team to build or add on to their soccer specific stadium?


@ MLS, you really only have three teams now on the outside looking in as far as appropriate venues go:

*San Jose* has plans, location and some political support. I think they're simply finishing the permitting process and securing funding, but regardless all signs point to this happening.

*New England* is apparently formally exploring the options within their area, but I've yet to hear the Krafts confirm this will happen one way or the other. Gilette is good enough they could easily prosper in this venue with Seattle-like support, especially since, like Seattle, the team owner owns the venue as well. Reality is fans hope the MLS models show the Krafts a sss is needed and beneficial and they get the job done w/in 5-8 years.

That leaves poor *DC*. No one doubts they deserve a new home or whether the team would prosper, but local politics have stymied them at every turn. No news of late suggesting otherwise, but the team will press again this summer for some new deal to consider.

As far as expansions or renovations, Columbus is now exploring future options @ Crew Stadium or elsewhere, Portland has room for expansions within existing structure but will do so very gradually, Philadelphia has the structural plans for a modest 1-2k expansion but no timetable I know of, and every once in a while rumblings will crop up regarding Chiavs finding a home of their own, in LA or elsewhere.

Outside MLS I don't know of other plans beyond those recently shown here for Pittsburgh and San Antonio.


----------



## JJG

I'm back in Southeast Texas, so I can check out Dynamo Stadium (I'd MUCH rather call it that) more often.

And just for future reference on this thread:

- DON'T ask about roofs
- DON'T start getting into another football vs. soccer shit-fest.

Like I said, different country, culture, style. If you don't like it, don't comment.


----------



## Cjones2451

IrishMan2010 said:


> Cheers for the info, I was just wondering about Vancouver Whitecaps stadium, I can't find info on it at the moment (with wikipedia and various other sites being blocked at the moment) do they play at Bell Park? Or is that BC Place? Sorry if this info is somewhere else on SSC. Cheers.


The Whitecaps originally wanted to build (with their owners money and no cost to taxpayers) an 18-20K Waterfront Stadium Downtown, but becuase of so much local red-tape and NIMBY people complaining about noise it never got anywhere, so they partnered with BC Place on the reno to include what they need to make it for soccer, so it is now the Bell Pitch at BC Place.


----------



## Topher51

GunnerJacket said:


> That leaves poor *DC*. No one doubts they deserve a new home or whether the team would prosper, but local politics have stymied them at every turn. No news of late suggesting otherwise, but the team will press again this summer for some new deal to consider.


The DC City Council is too busy stealing public funds and purchasing SUVs with tax payer money to get much of anything else done...

Last I heard Baltimore was trying to tempt them to move there. I still have my fingers crossed for the Buzzard Point or Poplar Point Stadium plans in DC.


----------



## rantanamo

American or not, some of the loudest decibal reading have come from open air stadiums. Its irrelavent here as you are on a "Soccer Stadiums of the USA" thread, where most have roofs. So you're coming off as just trying to say USA bad.


----------



## massp88

GunnerJacket said:


> @ MLS, you really only have three teams now on the outside looking in as far as appropriate venues go:
> 
> *San Jose* has plans, location and some political support. I think they're simply finishing the permitting process and securing funding, but regardless all signs point to this happening.
> 
> *New England* is apparently formally exploring the options within their area, but I've yet to hear the Krafts confirm this will happen one way or the other. Gilette is good enough they could easily prosper in this venue with Seattle-like support, especially since, like Seattle, the team owner owns the venue as well. Reality is fans hope the MLS models show the Krafts a sss is needed and beneficial and they get the job done w/in 5-8 years.
> 
> That leaves poor *DC*. No one doubts they deserve a new home or whether the team would prosper, but local politics have stymied them at every turn. No news of late suggesting otherwise, but the team will press again this summer for some new deal to consider.
> 
> As far as expansions or renovations, Columbus is now exploring future options @ Crew Stadium or elsewhere, Portland has room for expansions within existing structure but will do so very gradually, Philadelphia has the structural plans for a modest 1-2k expansion but no timetable I know of, and every once in a while rumblings will crop up regarding Chiavs finding a home of their own, in LA or elsewhere.
> 
> Outside MLS I don't know of other plans beyond those recently shown here for Pittsburgh and San Antonio.


Even with Seattle like support, the Revs would barely be selling more than 50% of Gillette. No MLS team belongs playing in a football stadium, unless they are averaging 55-60,000 fans a match which no team comes close to doing. 

The Revolution are an afterthought to the Redsox during the Spring and Summer and then by the Patriots, Celtics and Bruins come Fall. It also doesn't help that Gillette is located quite a distance from Boston.


----------



## kaligraffi

I have to agree with massp88 about New England. It's unfortunate but the Krafts don't pay an ounce of attention to the Revs and attendance has been floundering for years. Just as an example, they put all the fans on the side opposite the cameras so attendance looks better on TV than it actually is (which has the effect of making it seem like an empty stadium to the fans who showed up) but even that's not enough to hide it anymore. I would be very happy to see SSS plans materialize but it's unlikely the way the team is being managed.


----------



## GunnerJacket

massp88 said:


> Even with Seattle like support, the Revs would barely be selling more than 50% of Gillette.


True, it would take about 42k to fill everything but the two upper tiers on either side, and not even Seattle is ready for that. But if they managed 20-25k in a defined space where everyone was packed it would certainly prove a more energetic atmosphere and certainly within MLS standards for today. I daresay there wouldn't even be any discussion about their own venue if they pulled that average in Gillette, because financially that would be the best way to go. 

Maybe if they could fill the lower bowl and the prime seating of the two middle tiers, that looks to be about 30-34k, and at least with the clearly defined sections it would look more organized than simply having people scattered about. But realistically, this team would be better suited with its own 18k stadium.



> No MLS team belongs playing in a football stadium...


Seattle does very well. Granted, the arrangement of the stands is more conducive size and atmosphere wise, and more importantly the location is considerably better. It's definitely the exclusion rather than the rule, and in fact Seattle may be the sole exception, but it can be done. 

Vancouver might be pretty well off in the renovated BC Place, as well, again becase of location and more intimate structural form. 

I think my dismay for Boston is both the notion that I know New england folk love soccer in general and can't see why the Revs don't at least do better than they do, plus the fact that having the owner own the venue as well means if they did match Seattle-like numbers the club would be doing much better financially, and might possibly fill that 42k down the road. It would be nice if within my lifetime we had 1-2 MLS teams that did draw above 40k. 

I'm such a dreamer.


----------



## Otto Racecar

GunnerJacket said:


> It would be nice if within my lifetime we had 1-2 MLS teams that did draw above 40k.
> 
> I'm such a dreamer.


I'm not sure how old you are but I"m in my early 30's and I think that is definately feasible.


----------



## IrishMan2010

Cjones2451 said:


> The Whitecaps originally wanted to build (with their owners money and no cost to taxpayers) an 18-20K Waterfront Stadium Downtown, but becuase of so much local red-tape and NIMBY people complaining about noise it never got anywhere, so they partnered with BC Place on the reno to include what they need to make it for soccer, so it is now the Bell Pitch at BC Place.


Ah, thanks for the info, I stayed in a hotel close to the BC Place in 2010, I think they were renovating it at the time (could be wrong though). The Waterfront would have been a nice spot, but you can't win everything :lol:, Cheers!


----------



## Darloeye

Think in the next 10 years some teams could be getting 30-35k a game.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Otto Racecar said:


> I'm not sure how old you are but I"m in my early 30's and I think that is definately feasible.


I've got an extra decade on you, but I'm told I look young for my age! 

Here are last season's numbers:

38,495	Seattle 
23,335	Los Angeles
20,412	Vancouver
20,267	Toronto FC
19,691	Red Bull NY
18,827	Portland 
18,258	Philadelphia
17,810	Kansas City
17,694	Houston 
17,594	Real Salt Lake
15,196	DC United
14,838	Colorado
14,830	Chivas USA
14,273	Chicago 
13,222	New England
12,861	FC Dallas 
12,185	Columbus
11,858	San Jose  
*17,869	Overall *

I think it's highly possible we'll see Vacnouver sustain their figures while RB, Portland, Montreal and Houston also avg over 20k this season. Early signs re: season ticket sales suggests Columbus will do better while Dallas and Chicago might also improve, so the optimist among MLS fans is to see a league average surpassing 18k and possibly even 19k. This would be HUGE for the league financially and in building sustained fan growth. Then maybe the likes of Philly and RSL can talk expansion, the Revs and DC get their own homes, etc.

Beyond that, though it will be a tough haul to get teams over the 30k mark. LA could do it comfortably as it likely wouldn't cost much to expand the HDC. Portland would likely face an expensive addition to breach the (suggested) 27k they could possibly squeeze into their ground, and Vancouver would be hard pressed to literally raise the roof at BC place and increase capacity unless they knew it would be for an additional 10K or more, lest they risk looking out of place in a big football stadium. Meanwhile, all your 18-22k soccer stadiums that could easily be expanded have yet to see steady sell-outs to indicate the demand is there, for now, and I doubt RB will want to expand their venue so quickly without assured demand.

I do think in the next 10 years the league will average over 20k and that half of the teams will be above that mark, but it might be a spell before we see more teams in the 30k bracket besides Seattle and LA. My thoughts, anyway.

- - - - - - -

Edit: Just calculated this - If Houston and Montreal avg a sell out next season, and if Portland jumps to 20k, and if everything else merely stays the same, the league avg. would be about 18,269. So we'll need our high performers to continue doing well but also for our lower end sides to really pick up their figures to see the league broach 19k, it would appear. C'mon San Jose! Build your house!


----------



## WesTexas

How to fix stadium issues in the MLS

*DC United*: Demo RFK and build a SSS on that site, play games at FedEx till it is built.
*New England Revolution*: New Stadium that is similar yet different to New York Redbulls. Also a new crest.
*Chivas*: Get out of LA.
*FC Dallas*: They do need some covering over the stands for that hot Texas sun.
*San Jose*: Just get your proposal built.


----------



## GunnerJacket

^^ Pretty much. About the only thing I'd change would be having United move to Poplar Point, and that New England doesn't need anything near as big as RB Park right now.


----------



## SJAnfield

WesTexas said:


> How to fix stadium issues in the MLS
> 
> *DC United*: Demo RFK and build a SSS on that site, play games at FedEx till it is built.
> *New England Revolution*: New Stadium that is similar yet different to New York Redbulls. Also a new crest.
> *Chivas*: Get out of LA.
> *FC Dallas*: They do need some covering over the stands for that hot Texas sun.
> *San Jose*: Just get your proposal built.


San Jose will start building soon. There was a small set back recently when a local resident challenged the permits, but its almost a foregone conclusion that the city and county are going to give the go ahead. I think shovels are expected to hit the dirt by summer this year.


----------



## Darloeye

What does the stadium design for San Jose look like ?


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

Darloeye said:


> Think in the next 10 years some teams could be getting 30-35k a game.


I think Seattle will continue to draw well and i think the Galaxy will expand HPC (it was built with room for expansion) so we can see these two teams in the 30K range for sure and a bunch of other teams averaging 25 - 28,000 a game. this would be very respectable for the MLS in the next ten years


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

WesTexas said:


> How to fix stadium issues in the MLS
> 
> *DC United*: Demo RFK and build a SSS on that site, play games at FedEx till it is built.
> *New England Revolution*: New Stadium that is similar yet different to New York Redbulls. Also a new crest.
> *Chivas*: Get out of LA.
> *FC Dallas*: They do need some covering over the stands for that hot Texas sun.
> *San Jose*: Just get your proposal built.


Chivas has been talking about building their own stadium, and i think they will move to either Orange County (Santa Ana area), Inland Empire or Expo Park next to the Coliseum (new stadium to replace the sports arena)


----------



## bd popeye

Thanks guys..^^

I can just imagine an NFL team sponser by ..oh..Depends(Adult diapers)


----------



## WesTexas

If NFL did it, it would be a small logo on the left upper chest just like the practice jerseys have.

I dont mind 1 big kit sponsor logo, but covering every inch of the jersey with a sponsor is ridiculous.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Bossman1 said:


> Yet the argument you are making goes against everything about MLS having their own stadiums and soccer specific stadiums at that.


Not entirely. Seattle is unique not only because they retain a significant volume of fans but also because the configuration of the stadium lets the half-full set up look and feel packed. Not every NFL-sized venue is comparable, as discussed with Gillette a few posts back.


bd popeye said:


> I'm not a soccer fan. ^^ This is one of my pet peeves about soccer. Ads on the uniforms.hno: I don't get it..at all...I assume this is a way to make more revenue.


Not only via the sponsorship but by featuring new jerseys every so often. (For some teams, every year). It's the same reason Nike, Under Armor, etc are pumping out novelty uniforms in other sports like cfb and NBA: More sales for them and the teams. The origination, though, stems waaay back from when teams were essentially founded by workers from one company/sponsor and that sponsor was the only detail on the shirt. 

The big 4 US pro sports may never see anything to this scale since they're already wealthy enough, but they've seen more infringement in other areas so who knows. Some NBA team has a sponsor for the court that's different than the arena, plus all the sponsors for the various parts of the media coverage (pre-game, halftime, clutch moments, highlights, player of the game and post-game!!), and some teams have sponsor logos on their warm-ups or practice outfits.


carlspannoosh said:


> This is why I wouldn't dream of buying a football top. That Vasco da Gama kit is grim. Ridiculous amount of advertisements. Which emblem/Logo is the club badge?


Verily, the smaller leagues tend to go overboard as they look for revenue. I'm always surprised the Mexican Liga Primera clubs have as many sponsors considering their revenues, but they get a lot of that $ from sponsors. 

Some European clubs get as much if not more $ from sponsorship deals than from gameday sales.


----------



## joezierer

MikeVonJ said:


> Here in Brazil we've been talking about how similiar it is to Brazilian Vasco da Gama's.


Dark sash on a light shirt? That's not really that unique.


----------



## Topher51

MikeVonJ said:


> Here in Brazil we've been talking about how similiar it is to Brazilian Vasco da Gama's.


I don't mind a sponsorship on the jerseys, but those Brazilian jerseys look like the quarterpanel on a NASCAR car. Yeah, I know I am the second to say it, but I am providing a visual aide. P


----------



## WesTexas

well plaid ser


----------



## bd popeye

Topher51 said:


> I don't mind a sponsorship on the jerseys, but those Brazilian jerseys look like the quarterpanel on a NASCAR car. Yeah, I know I am the second to say it, but I am providing a visual aide. P


I can go one better..Tony Stewart NASCAR Champion, looks like he could play for Flamengo..


----------



## massp88

bd popeye said:


> I'm not a soccer fan. ^^ This is one of my pet peeves about soccer. Ads on the uniforms.hno: I don't get it..at all...I assume this is a way to make more revenue.


Teams need this additional revenue. Soccer matches only have commercial breaks during halftime. Compare that to an NBA game where it seems you have a commercial break (due to timeouts and they also have media timeouts) every minute or so.


----------



## Rev Stickleback

WesTexas said:


> If NFL did it, it would be a small logo on the left upper chest just like the practice jerseys have.
> 
> I dont mind 1 big kit sponsor logo, but covering every inch of the jersey with a sponsor is ridiculous.


One thing to remember is that soccer shirts have never had a big logo on the front, even before sponsorship came along.

Rewind to around 1980, and shirts looked like this...









http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images...79275495144/Ossie-Ardiles-and-Ricky-V-007.jpg

That's why there's no feeling that it looks like the sponsor logo is the club badge. The club badge is typically where it's always been, either central, just below the "V", or on the left, as above.




GunnerJacket said:


> The origination, though, stems waaay back from when teams were essentially founded by workers from one company/sponsor and that sponsor was the only detail on the shirt.


I don't know of a single club where that's true. Shirt sponsorship is a relatively recent thing. Very few clubs were ever company teams.


----------



## bd popeye

Rev, I like those jersey's . I also like the jersey's worn in the World Cup & qualifying matches. thanks for posting.


----------



## slipperydog

The mesh has been completed for the Compass...


----------



## joezierer

To be completely fair, NASCAR also didn't used to have sponshorships. They used to name the cars. "The Fabulous Hudson Hornet" etc. Only because it's become so expensive (just like soccer) has sponsorship gotten crazy.

edit: Though the Hudson Hornet was sponsored by the car maker, my point is that the sponsorship was small if it was even there.


----------



## bd popeye

> Though the Hudson Hornet was sponsored by the car maker, my point is that the sponsorship was small if it was even there.


True.. usually Local auto dealers and local auto repair shops were the sponsors. No national sponsors..


----------



## Darloeye

I am ok with seeing sponsors names on teams shirts in soccer but when Iam watching uk ice hockey which are covered with sponsors and it just looks aweful. Its great watch american sports not having have a corporation name on their shirts. but money rules the sporting world think having a stadium/arena named after a big business can sounds awefull to some fans too. come on does anyone like Yum KFC Center ?


----------



## WorldCupWatcher

slipperydog said:


> The mesh has been completed for the Compass...


Wow, that's a very unique design. Like it a lot!


----------



## hngcm

bd popeye said:


> I'm not a soccer fan. ^^ This is one of my pet peeves about soccer. Ads on the uniforms.hno: I don't get it..at all...I assume this is a way to make more revenue.


I can understand for a cash-strapped league like the MLS, but the Premiership? La Liga? Yuck


----------



## mattec

slipperydog said:


> The mesh has been completed for the Compass...


looks snazzy


----------



## slipperydog

Personally, I think soccer jerseys look empty without a sponsor.


----------



## mgk920

WesTexas said:


> If NFL did it, it would be a small logo on the left upper chest just like the practice jerseys have.
> 
> I dont mind 1 big kit sponsor logo, but covering every inch of the jersey with a sponsor is ridiculous.


The NFL did that in their earliest days - how do you think the Green Bay Packers got their name? Their first uniform sponsor (early 1920s) was a local meatpacking company - the Indian Packing Company was the sponsor and the jerseys said "ACME PACKERS" across their fronts.

Mike


----------



## krnboy1009

Darloeye said:


> I am ok with seeing sponsors names on teams shirts in soccer but when Iam watching uk ice hockey which are covered with sponsors and it just looks aweful. Its great watch american sports not having have a corporation name on their shirts. but money rules the sporting world think having a stadium/arena named after a big business can sounds awefull to some fans too. come on does anyone like Yum KFC Center ?


On the other hand Great American Ballpark is a pretty neat name/


----------



## SIC

MikeVonJ said:


> Here in Brazil we've been talking about how similiar it is to Brazilian Vasco da Gama's.


Looks like their old uni to me.


----------



## metros11

carnifex2005 said:


> The Olympic Stadium isn't in the middle of the city. It's a 10 minute subway ride outside of downtown.


It was the most interesting 10 minute Metro ride I have ever taken. Certainly has a unique feel to it, what with the pneumatic tires and all.



ryebreadraz said:


> They would just need a new agreement, primarily on adding parking. Both sides knew that the stadium was likely to be expanded at some point.


You're right, a new agreement is all they need. Pretty easy, as easy as allowing the Galaxy to pack the HDC for a playoff game on a weekday.



master_klon said:


> Only 22,403 turn up to see the US national team play in the University of Phoenix Stadium. Why is there such low turnouts for international games?


As others stated, Venezuela's C team against America's C team. The game didn't even make it onto English speaking cable television.



massp88 said:


> Qwest Field has noise amplifying roofs.


There are two thing wrong with that statement.



bd popeye said:


> I'm not a soccer fan. ^^ This is one of my pet peeves about soccer. Ads on the uniforms.hno: I don't get it..at all...I assume this is a way to make more revenue.


$$$ rules the world.



master_klon said:


> I can safely say you'll never watch the Norwegian Premier League. :lol:
> 
> A sponsor is great but they can easily ruin a good kit (Really, who names a bread company 'Bimbo'?). Most MLS teams did well though with their shirt sponsors in 2011.


Ever seen Mexican uniforms?


----------



## MikeVonJ

carlspannoosh said:


> This is why I wouldn't dream of buying a football top. That Vasco da Gama kit is grim. Ridiculous amount of advertisements. Which emblem/Logo is the club badge?


The club's badge is not there, although the red cross is its symbol. This is the club's badge:









But here in Brazil it is very common for clubs to have even more advertisement on their t-shirts than Vasco da Gama's, especially because it is the most popular sport and companies love supporting it and having their brands exposed nationally.


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## Rev Stickleback

slipperydog said:


>


They couldn't have gone for San Jose?


----------



## WesTexas

Why would they???


----------



## Rev Stickleback

Why would Quaker sponsor the San Jose Earthquakes? hmm...


----------



## WesTexas

Quaker is based out of Chicago and their parent company is Pepsico based out of New York so.....I am seeing no San Jose connection.


----------



## Cjones2451

Rev Stickleback said:


> Why would Quaker sponsor the San Jose Earthquakes? hmm...


Besides the bad pun, San Jose already has Amway as a jersey sponsor....


----------



## krudmonk

The Amway deal just expired.


----------



## Rev Stickleback

krudmonk said:


> The Amway deal just expired.


did they pay money directly, or just get San Jose to sell shirt sponsorship to other teams?


----------



## BoulderGrad

Rev Stickleback said:


> did they pay money directly, or just get San Jose to sell shirt sponsorship to other teams?


:lol:

Found this on a quick google search:
http://www.centerlinesoccer.com/new-2012-san-jose-earthquakes-uniform-revealed/

Not quite been confirmed, but looks as if they've dropped the AmWay deal and AmWay as a sponsor all together (For the better IMO).

So ideas for new Kit sponsors?

Major current sponsors listed here:
http://www.sjearthquakes.com/club/sponsors

Verizon would be good, Odwalla, or perhaps In N Out Burger (The team goes Animal Style!). With MLS getting a TV deal with Comcast/NBC Sports, perhaps Xfinity could be tolerated I suppose.


----------



## hngcm

master_klon said:


> Only 22,403 turn up to see the US national team play in the University of Phoenix Stadium. Why is there such low turnouts for international games? Even Mexico gets better crowds when playing in the US. I understand that the country is too large for a lot of people to travel for a friendly, but LA isn't too far away...


Mexico just got 40,000 to watch them play Venezuela in Houston.


----------



## joezierer

hngcm said:


> Mexico just got 40,000 to watch them play Venezuela in Houston.


Was that the A-squad of Mexico?


----------



## slipperydog

Exactly. Mexico got a low turnout because they were playing Venezuela. Quality of opponent matters.


----------



## MS20

40,000 is a "low turnout" then? That's news.


----------



## WesTexas

hngcm said:


> Mexico just got 40,000 to watch them play Venezuela in Houston.


Good for them....


----------



## slipperydog

MS20 said:


> 40,000 is a "low turnout" then? That's news.


For Mexico's soccer team in Texas? Absolutely. But I wouldn't say it's "low" per say. It's about what's expected for playing a team like Venezuela. The US attendance for the game was actually better than expected when considering the market and opponent.


----------



## JYDA

joezierer said:


> Was that the A-squad of Mexico?


No, only domestic league players


----------



## Marckymarc

Topher51 said:


> I don't mind a sponsorship on the jerseys, but those Brazilian jerseys look like the quarterpanel on a NASCAR car. Yeah, I know I am the second to say it, but I am providing a visual aide. P


I don't know why NASCAR is always thrown up as the example.

F1 is just as pimped by sponsors


----------



## ryebreadraz

slipperydog said:


> For Mexico's soccer team in Texas? Absolutely. But I wouldn't say it's "low" per say. It's about what's expected for playing a team like Venezuela. The US attendance for the game was actually better than expected when considering the market and opponent.


Yup. Mexico is actually the most popular sports team in the US, although I think you have some sagging support for them lately. This is likely due to oversaturation. They had six Gold Cup matches on US soil last year and six more friendlies. Once they get into World Cup qualifying and aren't playing in the US every month then you'll see 70-80k for them again.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Marckymarc said:


> I don't know why NASCAR is always thrown up as the example.
> 
> F1 is just as pimped by sponsors


I know not what this "F1" is of which you speak 

Nascar is a lot more popular than F1 in the US (repeat, I said IN THE US before anyone flames me) and we're talking about US soccer stadiums?


----------



## joezierer

ryebreadraz said:


> Mexico is actually the most popular sports team in the US,


You have got to be kidding me. In Soccer? yes, in all of sports? No.


----------



## JJG

^^ Not even _close_ to most popular sports team....


----------



## MS20

There are something like 32 million Mexicans in the US. Roughly 10-11% of the total population. Even if all of them aren't football fans, I'd say that's a pretty popular team all things considered. Few pro sports teams have that kind of market potential. The national teams of other sports (outside basketball and to a much lesser extent ice hockey) are a joke as well. 

Naturally you're not going to hear about it in the media, but it would put a lot of US pro sports teams to shame, and that in itself is embarrassing considering its the national team of another country within the US. 

Maybe some of you could argue how the Milwaukee Bucks, San Jose Sharks, Oakland A's or Jacksonville Jags are more popular?


----------



## slipperydog

JJG said:


> ^^ Not even _close_ to most popular sports team....


There are more fans of the Mexican national soccer team in the US than there are fans of any other American sports team, professional, college, or otherwise. And this is not even debatable. Sorry. If you're a white, English-speaking, ESPN-watching "Amurican", then of course you would be ignorant to this fact because all you see on your television screen is Skip Bayless and Tom Brady all day long.

In fact, numerous articles have been written alluding to this. If you go to any major city in the United States, you could fill the entire stadium with Mexican fans. Likewise, you could not go to those same random cities and fill an entire 60-80k seat stadium with Yankee fans, or Lakers fans, or Cowboys fans.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/06/25/3178405/mexico-soccer-team-might-be-americas.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/07/sports/soccer/07soccer.html


----------



## MS20

slipperydog said:


> *There are more fans of the Mexican national soccer team in the US than there are fans of any other American sports team, professional, college, or otherwise. And this is not even debatable. Sorry*. If you're a white, English-speaking, ESPN-watching Amurican, then of course you would be ignorant to this fact. All you see on your television screen all day is Skip Bayless and Tom Brady.
> 
> In fact, numerous articles have been written alluding to this. If you go to any major city in the United States, you could fill the entire stadium with Mexican fans. Likewise, you could not go to those same random cities and fill an entire 60-80k seat stadium with Yankee fans, or Lakers fans, or Cowboys fans.
> 
> http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/06/25/3178405/mexico-soccer-team-might-be-americas.html
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/07/sports/soccer/07soccer.html


I agree with you that they're popular, but I wouldn't go that far. The most popular? Nah. Even with 32 million potential fans, I'd say it would still sit just outside the top 10.


----------



## JJG

Huh.........

Well I guess so. But still, I'll go American (in anything except soccer, of course.:lol


----------



## slipperydog

There is not one professional sports franchise in the US that has more fans than Mexico.


----------



## MS20

- LA Lakers
- Dallas Cowboys
- NY Yankees
- Boston Red Sox
- GB Packers
- Boston Celtics
- NY Knicks?
- Chicago Bears
- Chicago Cubs?
- NY Giants
- Chicago Bulls
- LA Dodgers

Brain hurts, can't think of any more. All those would probably be more popular than Mexican national team nationally speaking. But after that, it might start to get close. No NHL teams cos I dont know any, but I doubt any would rival the MNT.


----------



## slipperydog

Those teams are more "well-known" or "popular" by the English-speaking population in this country. I know who Aaron Rodgers is. But that doesn't make me a Packers fan. In terms of actual loyal and rabid fans, the Mexican national team is the outright winner. I didn't think we were talking about how well-known a team is, but rather the number of fans. The Mexican national team is not as well-known, but it has more fans in totality. The discussion was centered around attendance, and why the Mexican soccer team draws so much more than US.


----------



## MS20

Yeah but Lakers support isn't consigned to Greater LA. I'd be very surprised if they didn't have 20 million fans nationally. Its like United, Bayern, Juve, Real, their support is countrywide. And for such a dominant team like LA, which unlike the NFL can constantly produce competitive teams year on year, you accumulate support well beyond your natural means. Same with the Yankees. Not only does Cali have 40m+ people (bigger than Mexican pop in US), but Lakers support extends beyond Cali. The numbers just don't add up. 

I'm not referring to face recognition either, nor media attention, nor size of TV contracts or anything else. At the same time, I still think a number of those teams have bigger fanbases than the Mexican national team. Mexico might be in the top 10 though, certainly just outside it.


----------



## rantanamo

a.) the assumption that every Mexican in the US is a soccer fan is kind of ridiculous. I personally know many that don't give a shit about soccer.

b.) You're talking about a national team. Of course the potential fanbase would be larger than that of a franchise. The potential fanbase of USA basketball is bigger than that of the Lakers too. Having said that, shouldn't every match be sold out? 

c.) There seems to be some pride in this. Some sniggling back laughing for some reason. Don't get it.

d.) Wouldn't be surprised if a team like the Cowboys or Yankees have a much larger fanbase than 32 million.


----------



## MS20

JJG said:


> Huh.........
> 
> Well I guess so. But still, I'll go American (in anything except soccer, of course.:lol


Does beg the question why you visit this board at all? I guess without soccer Stadiums and Sports Arenas would be dead.


----------



## JJG

MS20 said:


> Does beg the question why you visit this board at all? I guess without soccer Stadiums and Sports Arenas would be dead.


I'm talking about the U.S. national team.

BTW, I get the feeling we're treading into football vs. soccer territory again. 

Switch, please.


----------



## slipperydog

There may be 32 million Yankees hats floating around. But there sure as hell ain't 32 million actual Yankees fans. 15-20 million viewers watch the World Series, on a good night. And the majority of those fans are not fans of either team.


----------



## MS20

rantanamo said:


> a.) the assumption that every Mexican in the US is a soccer fan is kind of ridiculous. I personally know many that don't give a shit about soccer.
> 
> b.) You're talking about a national team. Of course the potential fanbase would be larger than that of a franchise. The potential fanbase of USA basketball is bigger than that of the Lakers too. Having said that, shouldn't every match be sold out?
> 
> c.) There seems to be some pride in this. Some sniggling back laughing for some reason. Don't get it.
> 
> d.) Wouldn't be surprised if a team like the Cowboys or Yankees have a much larger fanbase than 32 million.


You may or may not be referring to me, but:

a) No one made that assumption. 

b) We're talking about "most popular team". That includes national teams, pro teams, or college teams. And, as it stands, there is only one national team that can even be in the same category (basketball). 

c) For me personally, its because I love soccer, and don't give much of a shit about the rest of the activities people in your backyard amuse themselves with. 

d) Neither would I. And, I believe you're quite right that they more than likely are bigger than the MNT.


----------



## MS20

slipperydog said:


> There may be 32 million Yankees hats floating around. But there sure as hell ain't 32 million actual Yankees fans. 15-20 million viewers watch the World Series, on a good night. And the majority of those fans are not fans of either team.


Ok, and 23 million watched the US play Ghana at the last WC. Are the USMNT bigger than the Yankees? What were the last viewing figures in the US for a Mexican NT match? I'd hazard nowhere near those World Series figures.


----------



## JJG

slipperydog said:


> There may be 32 million Yankees hats floating around. *But there sure as hell ain't 32 million actual Yankees fans*. 15-20 million viewers watch the World Series, on a good night. And the majority of those fans are not fans of either team.


.....dunno about that one. 

There are several guys here in Texas (including my own father) who claim the Yankees as their team.


----------



## slipperydog

MS20 said:


> Ok, and 23 million watched the US play Ghana at the last WC. Are the USMNT bigger than the Yankees?


Hope this isn't a serious question. About 80 million people watch the US bobsledding team during the Olympics.

The point is, if there were actually 32 million diehard Yankees fans throughout the US, then the 2009 World Series would not have gotten only a 12 rating.


----------



## MS20

slipperydog said:


> Hope this isn't a serious question. About 80 million people watch the US bobsledding team during the Olympics.
> 
> The point is, if there were actually 32 million diehard Yankees fans throughout the US, then the 2009 World Series would not have gotten only a 12 rating.


Of the 32 million Mexicans living in the US, how many would you say are diehard then? Whatever diehard means. It's not something thats easily quantifiable.

Anyway, 5-10 million? At best? That would put them outside a top 10 count, because there's no way you can say that Cowboys, Yankees, Lakers et al don't have that kind of support nationwide.


----------



## slipperydog

MS20 said:


> Of the 32 million Mexicans living in the US, how many would you say are diehard then? Whatever diehard means. It's not something thats easily quantifiable.
> 
> Anyway, 5-10 million? At best? That would put them outside a top 10 count, because there's no way you can say that Cowboys, Yankees, Lakers et al don't have that kind of support nationwide.


Of course it's not quantifiable. It's subjective. So I take back my statement. It is debatable.

You have to take into account the sport's culture, history, recent success of the team, etc. Soccer is a very traditional and familial sport. It's simply my opinion that the Mexican national team, in sheer numbers, is the most popular sports team in the United States.

But again, the only reason we're discussing this is that somebody asked why the Mexican national team gets higher attendance than the US national team. Well, they have more fans, DUH!


----------



## MS20

slipperydog said:


> Of course it's not quantifiable. It's subjective. So I take back my statement. It is debatable.
> 
> You have to take into account the sport's culture, history, recent success of the team, etc. Soccer is a very traditional and familial sport. It's simply my opinion that the Mexican national team, in sheer numbers, is the most popular sports team in the United States.


Fair enough. Though I'd still have to disagree, because its one of the major ways that Mexicans can exude a sense of patriotism and pride, which may make its "rabid soccer fanbase" look more like "nationalistic pride". In what other ways can they show such pride outside of soccer? That sort of thing can skew perceptions wildly. Are they really fans or just proud of their heritage? In a similar vein to those 82 million that watched bobsleigh at the Olympics, or the 25 million who watched the US at the WC. But to go full circle, I do agree that they would be insanely popular, even by US standards.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Here in Gainesville, GA, we have about 30k residents of Latino descent. Most work for the local poultry processing industry, and two of the companies have purchased land for fields that house a make-shift soccer league among the predominantly Mexican-heritage workforce. Fun to kick around with after hours, though I'm woefully out of shape.

I asked them (group of about 9-10 one afternoon) about the popularity of the Mexican team in the US the last time this topic was bandied about. Many agree there is a nationalist tinge to it, and several could only name the popular players. They do enjoy the idea that it's one thing they can hold over the US, and also admit it's somewhat of a desired distraction from their concerns about what's happening in Mexico or with cultural clashes here in the States. 

I asked if they ever support the US teams or MLS. The former, almost never, though they're appreciating the effort being put into it and enjoy seeing kids from Latino families making an impact. They do appreciate MLS and hope to see the league prosper, indicating that it would help Mexico as well by giving the countries something more in common to share. They said the recent uptick in investment in stadiums in Mexico is related to seeing the sport grow in the US, and a desire to reach the next level as a league.

Most suggested their wives and daughters are far less vested, and that much of the enthusiasm right now comes from an aspiration that the team might be turning the corner soon and more ably competing in the World Cup or against their South American neighbors. Didn't sound like they were anymore rabid than the avg NFL fan, but since the national team is essentially the one thing uniting the country they do feel an obligation to watch and support when they can. They seemed to understand that the US has so many options it's tough to truly compare, especially when our favored sports are not as vigorously followed globally. If a hoops World Cup was remotely popular who knows how the US would react?

It was an interesting discussion, and overall I wouldn't be surprised to see the Mexican National Team as having more "card-carrying" fans than other teams in the US, but it's not an indictment against the US at all because it's a very unique situation.


----------



## joezierer

Tell me Mexico has ever done this in the US (and this is just college):
Michigan Wolverines: 114,804 (Ann Arbor, MI; 2011)
Penn State Nittany Lions: 110,753 (State College, PA; 2002)
Tennessee Volunteers: 109,061 (Knoxville, TN; 2004)
_Rose Bowl_: 106,869 (Pasadena, CA; 1973)
Ohio Stadium: 106,033 (Columbus, OH; 2009)


----------



## weava

I'm pretty sure the Dallas Cowboys are the most popular team among Mexicans in the US.


----------



## WesTexas

who cares about how many Mexicans root for the Mexican team....DO YOU THINK WE CARE???? 

Instead of making it a pissing match about whether Mexico is the most popular team in the USA, Lets put it like this....

Most popular sports in America...
1. NFL
2. NBA
3. MLB
4. NCAA Football
5. NCAA Basketball
6. NASCAR
7. NHL
8. NCAA Baseball
9. NCAA Softball
10. Do we really have to watch soccer?

Mexico as a team has allllll the mexicans rooting for it, but is it really a fare argument to say they are more popular when they are a NATIONAL TEAM! Not a Club team like The Dallas Cowboys, New York Yankees of LA Lakers.

No it is not.

Let's steer this back on course to the topic title....

*SOCCER STADIUMS IN THE USA*
Take your USA vs Mexico pissing match somewhere else.


----------



## WesTexas

weava said:


> I'm pretty sure the Dallas Cowboys are the most popular team among Mexicans in the US.


Dallas Caballeros!!!!


----------



## slipperydog

WesTexas said:


> who cares about how many Mexicans root for the Mexican team....DO YOU THINK WE CARE????
> 
> Mexico as a team has allllll the mexicans rooting for it, but is it really a fare argument to say they are more popular when they are a NATIONAL TEAM! Not a Club team like The Dallas Cowboys, New York Yankees of LA Lakers.
> 
> No it is not.
> 
> Let's steer this back on course to the topic title....
> 
> *SOCCER STADIUMS IN THE USA*
> Take your USA vs Mexico pissing match somewhere else.


Someone asked why the Mexicans get more fans at their games than the USA. They're more popular. That's all. Chill out.


----------



## KingmanIII

WesTexas said:


> Most popular sports in America...
> 1. NFL
> 2. NBA
> 3. MLB
> 4. NCAA Football
> 5. NCAA Basketball
> 6. NASCAR
> 7. NHL
> 8. NCAA Baseball
> 9. NCAA Softball
> 10. Do we really have to watch soccer?


NBA and MLB more popular than college football? College baseball/softball more popular than soccer? 

C'mon man...


----------



## kuquito

WesTexas said:


> who cares about how many Mexicans root for the Mexican team....DO YOU THINK WE CARE????
> 
> Instead of making it a pissing match about whether Mexico is the most popular team in the USA, Lets put it like this....
> 
> Most popular sports in America...
> 1. NFL
> 2. NBA
> 3. MLB
> 4. NCAA Football
> 5. NCAA Basketball
> 6. NASCAR
> 7. NHL
> 8. NCAA Baseball
> 9*. NCAA Softball*10. Do we really have to watch soccer?
> 
> Mexico as a team has allllll the mexicans rooting for it, but is it really a fare argument to say they are more popular when they are a NATIONAL TEAM! Not a Club team like The Dallas Cowboys, New York Yankees of LA Lakers.
> 
> No it is not.
> 
> Let's steer this back on course to the topic title....
> 
> *SOCCER STADIUMS IN THE USA*
> Take your USA vs Mexico pissing match somewhere else.


What's the average attendance of the NCAA Softball league?


----------



## Darloeye

WesTexas If you hate Soccer why are you posting in a soccer thread ?


----------



## KingmanIII

kuquito said:


> What's the average attendance of the NCAA Softball league?


like, 500 or something...


----------



## eMKay

Darloeye said:


> WesTexas If you hate Soccer why are you posting in a soccer thread ?


Isn't this the same guy from Dallas that keeps getting banned, and coming back with a different name?


----------



## carnifex2005

Back to soccer stadiums, here's some new pics of Houston's...


----------



## Darloeye

eMKay said:


> Isn't this the same guy from Dallas that keeps getting banned, and coming back with a different name?


It might be. He seems to posts things that seem to be trolling


----------



## Darloeye

Also that New stadium in downtown Houston looks great with that skyline in the background too.


----------



## eMKay

This place is going to be so awesome. Those bleachers can make a LOT of noise


----------



## BoulderGrad

carnifex2005 said:


>


Please tell me this is the typical TV camera view...


----------



## fermone04

I think that it is good that the US & Mexico keep competing amongst each other in Soccer, matches, leagues, stadiums, this will boost both leagues, players, and National teams on the international levels I personally watch the Mexican league, but I’m also into the MLS who has increased in all areas for the good of the league


----------



## MS20

WesTexas said:


> who cares about how many Mexicans root for the Mexican team....DO YOU THINK WE CARE????
> 
> Instead of making it a pissing match about whether Mexico is the most popular team in the USA, Lets put it like this....
> 
> Most popular sports in America...
> 1. NFL
> 2. NBA
> 3. MLB
> 4. NCAA Football
> 5. NCAA Basketball
> 6. NASCAR
> 7. NHL
> 8. NCAA Baseball
> 9. NCAA Softball
> 10. Do we really have to watch soccer?
> 
> Mexico as a team has allllll the mexicans rooting for it, but is it really a fare argument to say they are more popular when they are a NATIONAL TEAM! Not a Club team like The Dallas Cowboys, New York Yankees of LA Lakers.
> 
> No it is not.
> 
> Let's steer this back on course to the topic title....
> 
> *SOCCER STADIUMS IN THE USA*
> Take your USA vs Mexico pissing match somewhere else.


:lol::lol::lol:

We're coming to get you! Soccer, the sport that just keep growing in the US. American foosball, the sport no one cares about outside of your borders. Hard to take? Must be. 

Soccer, gone from being a dead end sport a decade ago that so many Americans told us would never last, to having the 3rd highest average attendance in American pro sports. LOL! And now this foreign scourge if using taxpayer money to build stadiums specifically designed for them. Ouch. Must be nauseating to take. 

Just sit back and watch as soccer continues to encroach on your turf. When you have American foosball to contend with, I guess it doesn't take a lot though. :lol:

I love a good soccer vs anything else argument, because soccer always wins. 

PS. Dynamo stadium just looks outstanding


----------



## bd popeye

> Soccer, the sport that just keep growing in the US. American foosball, the sport no one cares about outside of your borders. Hard to take? Must be.


Actually 7 0f the 10 top most valuable sports teams in the world are in the USA.

1. Manchester United, $1.86 billion
2. Dallas Cowboys, $1.81 billion
3. New York Yankees, $1.7 billion
4. Washington Redskins, $1.55 billion
5. Real Madrid, $1.45 billion
6. New England Patriots, $1.37 billion
7. Arsenal, $1.19 billion
8. New York Giants, $1.18 billion
9. Houston Texans, $1.17 billion
10. New York Jets, $1.14 billion 

Most Americans don't care that American football is an exclusive American sport...Some day far in the future soccer may be the #1 pro sport in the US. On that day the World will curse the US for having such great soccer and dominating international tourneys and matches. 



> Soccer, gone from being a dead end sport a decade ago that so many Americans told us would never last, to having the 3rd highest average attendance in American pro sports. LOL! And now this foreign scourge if using taxpayer money to build stadiums specifically designed for them. Ouch. Must be nauseating to take.


In the US Soccer Tv ratings are abysmal and so is team revenue. That is a true ,measure of popularity. Check it out

NFL $11 Billon 
MLB $7 Billion 
NBA $3.8 Billion 
NHL $2.9 Billion 
*MLS $280 Million*

The MLS Championship game drew a paltry rating of 0.8...

http://articles.nydailynews.com/201...tings-numbers-dan-courtemanche-final-mls-game



> If nobody watched what might have been David Beckham's final MLS game, did it really happen?
> 
> Of course it did - and his LA Galaxy won the MLS Cup with a 1-0 win over the Houston Dynamo - but the league's championship match made barely a blip on the television ratings radar screen. Sunday's title match, aired by ESPN, drew a paltry 0.8 rating, USA Today reports, and was actually beaten in the ratings by a replay of a Chelsea vs. Liverpool English Premier League match, which drew a 1.5 rating on Fox. (The games didn’t air head-to-head. The EPL game aired at 4:30 p.m. while ESPN carried the MLS Cup live at 9 p.m.)
> 
> The ratings numbers give an indication as to the percentage of households that tuned in to watch the game in the 56 largest TV markets in the country. By comparison, Sunday night's Giants-Eagles game on NBC drew a 14.0 share, meaning 14 percent of homes were tuned into the game.
> 
> “Going up against the NFL will always present its challenges,” MLS executive vice president of communications Dan Courtemanche said. “That’s a credit to the NFL. Any (television) property, sports included, will face its challenges going up against football, which is the number one American sport right now.”
> 
> It’s possible that MLS may work to avoid playing its featured event on an NFL Sunday in the future and Courtemanche said that the league is currently putting the finishing touches on the 2012 schedule, which could be released in the next 30 to 45 days.
> 
> Even though the TV rating was modest, Courtemanche noted that the championship game drew the largest crowd ever at California’s Home Depot Center with over 30,000 spectators. The 0.8 rating is also a marked improvement over 2010's championship match between the Colorado Rapids and FC Dallas, which drew a 0.5 rating.
> 
> “MLS had a breakout year in 2011,” Courtemanche said. “We’re not going to judge (a season) on one specific event, especially coming off a year where we set an attendance record and had 87 sellouts.”
> 
> While the TV ratings for its signature match were meager, the league saw major growth in attendance in 2011 with the average attendance surging to 17,872 a game, a 7.2% increase. Sports Business Journal reported earlier this month that the league now ranks third in overall attendance, trailing only the NFL and MLB. The NBA comes in fourth with 17,323 and the NHL is fifth at 17,132.
> 
> The attendance figures were boosted greatly by the soccer phenomenon in NBA-less Seattle, where the Sounders boast an average attendance of 38,496 per match.


In the US we have sports talk radio. I listen frequently. Very few fans call up to discuss soccer. 

Soccer in the US does have impressive attendance ..but.. their stadia are much larger than the NBA and NHL....and the ticket prices are much lower.



> to having the 3rd highest average attendance in American pro sports


One reason is the lower ticket prices..

The NBA and NHL average ticket cost about $52 ..NFL $90..MLB $27 MLS $28..Wow did not know the MLS was that high..impressive.

The MLS is up and coming..but not there yet.


----------



## Darloeye

MS20 said:


> :lol::lol::lol:
> 
> We're coming to get you! Soccer, the sport that just keep growing in the US. *American foosball, the sport no one cares about outside of your borders.* Hard to take? Must be.
> 
> I love a good soccer vs anything else argument, because soccer always wins.


Hey I like American Football ! Watch more NFL than EPL. 

Don't know about soccer vs anything else argument cos I can't see a soccer player flying a fighter jet.

PS Nice post by Mr BP Popeye, Don't let the trolls win.


----------



## bd popeye

Darloeye said:


> PS Nice post by Mr BP Popeye, Don't let the trolls win.


Thank you sir...

I must state that someday the rest of the World will hate the US because the US is dominating soccer. Someday the very best athletes in the US shall play soccer..so watch out World.


----------



## Darloeye

Someday tho


----------



## JJG

Usually in these football vs. soccer threads, it's

Defenders of American Football: arrogant jerks who are overly patriotic and/or ignorant of soccer.

Defenders of Soccer: arrogant jerks who cant take or just understand the fact that their sport isn't most popular EVERYWHERE. (nor does it _have_ to be)

Now, please, let's not get into that bullshit this time. Ok?


----------



## eMKay

Those of us that like BOTH sports just sit back and throw a jab now and again


----------



## TexasBoi

eMKay said:


> Those of us that like BOTH sports just sit back and throw a jab now and again


Basically.:lol:


----------



## TexasBoi

Darloeye said:


> Also that New stadium in downtown Houston looks great with that skyline in the background too.


Best location for skyline view in MLS, perhaps? Are there any better? Maybe BMO Field? I'm sorry if this has been discussed already.:lol:


----------



## Darloeye

Yeah think Houston has a better skyline than Toronto's skyline sure the CN Tower is big but alot of the other skyscrapers are a little dull to me


----------



## ryebreadraz

TexasBoi said:


> Best location for skyline view in MLS, perhaps? Are there any better? Maybe BMO Field? I'm sorry if this has been discussed already.:lol:


You can't see it from inside the stadium, but BC Place has a gorgeous view.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Centurylink Skyline view:


----------



## Darloeye

Yeah think you might have to post a image from the other size of the stadium so we can see the Columbus tower better


----------



## WesTexas

Darloeye said:


> WesTexas If you hate Soccer why are you posting in a soccer thread ?


I dont hate soccer. Just pointing out the viewpoints of Americans.

Also how can you accuse me of being a troll? If having interest in a subject and comenting on it makes me a troll, then by all means, ban everyone. I give an opinion and defend it but I do not go in blasting away like those who would would say...

"European stadiums are better than American!" or "ROOFS SUCK!" "No, you just dont understand how they work!"

I hate arguments. I hate when a thread goes off topic, like the "Mexico is the most popular team in America" debate. Please, tell me. What does the popularity of the Mexico national team have to do with with the construction of Soccer Specific Stadiums in the United States? 

Nothing.

So let us be civil and keep these threads on subject.


----------



## Darloeye

Yes too right. 

Ps I know how Roofs work.


----------



## WesTexas

haha. Glad we came to an understanding.


----------



## hngcm

joezierer said:


> Tell me Mexico has ever done this in the US (and this is just college):
> Michigan Wolverines: 114,804 (Ann Arbor, MI; 2011)
> Penn State Nittany Lions: 110,753 (State College, PA; 2002)
> Tennessee Volunteers: 109,061 (Knoxville, TN; 2004)
> _Rose Bowl_: 106,869 (Pasadena, CA; 1973)
> Ohio Stadium: 106,033 (Columbus, OH; 2009)


Umm...


----------



## JJG

hngcm said:


> Umm...


Umm.... that's an international soccer match. That doesn't happen every week.

Now, back to the thread, please.


----------



## SIC

hngcm said:


> Umm...


owned.

:rofl:

Anyway, looking back at this we were discussing the pathetic attendance of the US national team compared to the awesome attendance of the Mexican national team and Seattle Sounders. Then it became soccer sucks/American F' Yeah-fest.


----------



## JJG

SIC said:


> owned.
> 
> :rofl:
> 
> Anyway, looking back at this we were discussing the pathetic attendance of the US national team compared to the awesome attendance of the Mexican national team and Seattle Sounders. Then it became soccer sucks/American F' Yeah-fest.


Oh for Christ sake.... :bash:


----------



## Rev Stickleback

robbery4774 said:


> Do the football fans in the US know that the term "Dynamo" in connection with a football club was created in the old soviet days. Dynamo Moscow, Dynamo Kyiev, Dynamo Bucharest, Dynamo Dresden etc. are all clubs which had connection with the hated state security apparatus and are today the most hated in their countrys, because they were benefited from the "red" authorities.


while generally true, there were exceptions. Dynamo Kiev and Dinamo Zagreb, for example, were hugely popular, and still are.

Dynamo Dresden are probably the best supported club from the old East Germany, although Dynamo Berlin did nosedive once their backers stopped backing them.


----------



## vadin

robbery4774 said:


> :bash::bash::bash::lol::lol::lol:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_world_boxing_champions


Dude, you've got to be joking.

Out of 17 weight divisions, a European is clearly the best fighter in ONLY 1 of them(Heavyweight). To give you the benefit of the doubt, let's say Lebedev is the best Cruiserweight. That makes Europe 2 for 17.

Stellar. Really stellar. :lol:


----------



## Botev1912

JJG said:


> .... can ya be more specific on "the traditional American way of doing things?"


efficient, but superficial, ugly and never perfect. The most important thing is always how to reduce the cost even though there is plenty of money available


----------



## vadin

Botev1912 said:


> they are not. For example the cheapest baseball tickets cost around 7-20 dollars. The cheapest Sounders tickets cost 35-45 dollars and the attendance is more than baseball. The cheapest basketball tickets are 10-20 USD. So it is not true. The soccer tickets are more expensive than NBA, NHL and even MLB


Wrong..... 

Baseball teams traditionally offer extremely cheap seats in the bleachers to ensure anyone can afford to go, but the bleachers are just a small part of the entire seating area.

On average, soccer tickets are still cheaper than baseball and hockey and WAY WAY cheaper than basktball. Football ticket prices are on a whole other level.

The average MLB ticket price is $26.91https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCQQFjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.teammarketing.com%2Fpublic%2Ffiles%2F2011_mlb_fci.pdf&ei=ygsrT4TXJKmciAKpstTMCg&usg=AFQjCNFRED8RAp3vvopxSryE6JvrYT0OsQ&sig2=1vkun8-trplfeLGHRt--0w&cad=rja
The average MLS tickdet price is $25
http://www.soccerreportextra.com/domestic/mls/attendance-conundrum-why-mls-fixtures-should-be-sold-out/
The average NBA price is $48.48
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&sqi=2&ved=0CF4QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Faol.sportingnews.com%2Fnba%2Fstory%2F2012-02-01%2Fnba-average-ticket-prices-up-1st-time-in-3-years&ei=KQorT7bVBNHKiQKutaigCg&usg=AFQjCNFgzMWerAPf1VyZ4miBr6U3idCd1A&sig2=jH-LiAEo02YJMKZagVo5dg
Average NHL ticket price is $29.95
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fespn.go.com%2Fblog%2Fdallas%2Fstars%2Fpost%2F_%2Fid%2F13315%2Fstars-have-cheapest-ticket-in-nhl&ei=Eg0rT5_aCavUiAKc593kCg&usg=AFQjCNF_AaIxHVgNIey2yeHcHSAwY3tqoA&sig2=RQo8LZ4-ifxNsyqFZ_KLEg


----------



## carnifex2005

robbery4774 said:


> Do the football fans in the US know that the term "Dynamo" in connection with a football club was created in the old soviet days. Dynamo Moscow, Dynamo Kyiev, Dynamo Bucharest, Dynamo Dresden etc. are all clubs which had connection with the hated state security apparatus and are today the most hated in their countrys, because they were benefited from the "red" authorities.
> 
> Nothing wrong about it, but i find it kind of funny a "Dynamo" club in the heart of right-wing capitalism. Dynamo supporters are always crazy :banana::banana::banana:


I thank that Houston was trying to go for a "Euro-sounding" team name and picked Dynamo after the backlash of the original name...










Of course, Houston is an energy capital so it does make some sense.


----------



## krkseg1ops

Original name was Houston 1836? Sounds like a train schedule :lol:


----------



## JJG

Botev1912 said:


> efficient, but superficial, ugly and never perfect. The most important thing is always how to reduce the cost even though there is plenty of money available


..._ugly_?


----------



## JJG

krkseg1ops said:


> Original name was Houston 1836? Sounds like a train schedule :lol:


Actually, it's in reference to the year Texas gained its independence from Mexico.

Though I (and several others) felt this would have been a better name, the very large Hispanic population in just Houston alone wouldn't have wanted this. So, we got Dynamo.

Personally, I think this and (some) the following sound better:
_*= has history with the city..._

- *Houston Apollos
- Houston Generals
- *Houston Commets
- *Houston Toros
- *Houston Buffalos
- Houston Stallions
- *Houston Marshalls
- *Houston Gamblers
- Houston Heights
- Houston Towers
- Houston Tycoons
- Black Gold FC
- Houston Aggies
- Houston Roughnecks
- and last but not least (since it would never happen).... Houston Oilers.:tongue2:


Although, the thought of a train would work too...


----------



## BoulderGrad

Deleted

What he said up there.


----------



## SouthmoreAvenue

New pictures posted from the Houston Dynamo's FB


















*WOW!*


----------



## JYDA

krkseg1ops said:


> Original name was Houston 1836? Sounds like a train schedule :lol:


Totally unlike 1860 Munich, Hannover 96, or Hoffenheim 1899


----------



## Bori427

vadin said:


> Dude, you've got to be joking.
> 
> Out of 17 weight divisions, a European is clearly the best fighter in ONLY 1 of them(Heavyweight). To give you the benefit of the doubt, let's say Lebedev is the best Cruiserweight. That makes Europe 2 for 17.
> 
> Stellar. Really stellar. :lol:


Exactly my point, he should be ashamed lol


----------



## bd popeye

Botev1912 said:


> they are not. For example the cheapest baseball tickets cost around 7-20 dollars. The cheapest Sounders tickets cost 35-45 dollars and the attendance is more than baseball. The cheapest basketball tickets are 10-20 USD. So it is not true. The soccer tickets are more expensive than NBA, NHL and even MLB


Did you read all of my post?



> The NBA and NHL *average ticket* cost about $52 ..NFL $90..MLB $27 MLS $28..Wow did not know the MLS was that high..impressive.
> 
> The MLS is up and coming..but not there yet.


I was posting of average prices and corrected myself in the same post. Sorry if you misunderstood.

By the way I take time out to look up the correct information. That eliminates guess work.



> Average NHL ticket price is $29.95


$29.95 was for the Dallas Stars...Actually according to that link you posted it's $57.10...different than what I posted.. Oh well I think the point has been made.


----------



## Botev1912

JJG said:


> ..._ugly_?


compared the the European stadiums yes. Of course the new professional stadiums look good. But the college stadiums are very ugly even the new ones. Also the surface is not that good. Most of the US stadiums have turf because it's easy and cheap to maintain. But grass is a lot better and looks better.


----------



## JJG

Botev1912 said:


> compared the the European stadiums yes. Of course the new professional stadiums look good. But the college stadiums are very ugly even the new ones. Also the surface is not that good. Most of the US stadiums have turf because it's easy and cheap to maintain. But grass is a lot better and looks better.


....and there are _no_ ugly stadiums in Europe?

And you're exaggerating a bit on the field.

Most stadiums I'VE been to in this country are grass. That's on all levels.

P.S. as far as the 'new' college stadiums go...


































































.... I think we have two different views of what ugly is.


----------



## iamawesomezero

It would be great if they built a stadium.


----------



## Botev1912

Allianz Arena in Munich, Germany










Wembley Stadium in London, England


----------



## vadin

Botev1912 said:


> Allianz Arena in Munich, Germany
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wembley Stadium in London, England


I've been to a few stadiums in Europe, mostly in Germany. I haven't been impressed.

To each his own. You like yours. We like ours.


----------



## JJG

Botev1912 said:


> Allianz Arena in Munich, Germany
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wembley Stadium in London, England


... gotta show a little more than that, bro.


----------



## robbery4774

Bori427 said:


> Exactly my point, he should be ashamed lol


lol i don't feel ashame, because the point in my previous post was that the US is no more dominating the boxing sport. If you count title by title the europeans or even the mexicans have more in these days.(just count it) 20 years ago the US-boys dominated boxing so bad. Can we leave it with that:cheers:


----------



## slipperydog

Moving on....


----------



## robbery4774

Everybody has its taste, no problem! I love the german stadiums, but also the english


----------



## rantanamo

awesome examples of Soccer Stadiums in the USA


----------



## Rev Stickleback

JJG said:


> ..._ugly_?


I think the 20000 or so ones I posted were all pretty ugly, but much of that was because they looked so basic and unfinished.


I mean, would anyone look at this Dynamo stadium and wish it could be like one of those instead?


----------



## Welkin

*


carnifex2005 said:



I thank that Houston was trying to go for a "Euro-sounding" team name and picked Dynamo after the backlash of the original name...

Of course, Houston is an energy capital so it does make some sense.

Click to expand...

*
Don't forget that Houston had a soccer team called the Dynamos that played in the USL from 1983-1991, so it was not much of a stretch to name the new team the same name.


----------



## robbery4774

rantanamo said:


> awesome examples of Soccer Stadiums in the USA


your welcome :banana::banana::banana:


----------



## JJG

Rev Stickleback said:


> I think the 20000 or so ones I posted were all pretty ugly, but much of that was because they looked so basic and unfinished.
> 
> 
> I mean, would anyone look at this Dynamo stadium and wish it could be like one of those instead?


They're "basic and unfinished" because those stadiums you posted belonged to small schools. They don't need full bowls. Plus, I don't know if it's like this in Europe, but in this country with high school and small college stadiums (mainly with high schools) stadiums are split with a set of stands on one side and a set on the other because we have visitors. And typically it's not really a good idea to have visitors sitting in the same stands as the home crowd with a good number of young people who may start fights with rival school students.

You can't compare even MLS stadiums to high school/small colleges, they're built that way for certain reasons.


.... and can someone please explain to me why people say American stadiums are "unfinished"? PLEASE tell me.


----------



## slipperydog

Chill out man, not everyone sees everything the same way.


----------



## WesTexas

He is just being suborn JJG. As I have said, the USA and Europe build 2 completely different styles of stadiums. 

PS: Wembley's stands have a very US feel to them.


----------



## JJG

slipperydog said:


> Chill out man, not everyone sees everything the same way.


Are you telling me to chill out?


----------



## soup or man

Just for reference, here are the stadiums of the MLS.

Chicago Fire (Toyota Park)









Columbus Crew (Columbus Crew Stadium)









DC United (RFK Stadium)









Sporting Kansas City (Livestrong Sporting Park)









New England Revolution (Gillette Stadium)









Red Bull New York (Red Bull Arena)









Philadelphia Union (PPL Park)









Toronto FC (BMO Field)









LA Galaxy/Chivas USA (Home Depot Center)









Colorado Rapids (Dick's Sporting Goods Park)









FC Dallas (FC Dallas Stadium)









Houston Dynamo (BBVA Compass Stadium)









Real Salt Lake (Rio Tinto Stadium)









San Jose Earthquakes (Buck Shaw Stadium)









Seattle Sounders (CenturyLink Field)









Vancouver Whitecaps FC (BC Place)









Portland Timbers (Jeld-Wen Stadium)









Montreal Impact (Saputo Stadium)


----------



## WesTexas

Seattle has an amazing fan base. Way to go.


----------



## robbery4774

JJG said:


> They're "basic and unfinished" because those stadiums you posted belonged to small schools. They don't need full bowls. Plus, I don't know if it's like this in Europe, but in this country with high school and small college stadiums (mainly with high schools) stadiums are split with a set of stands on one side and a set on the other because we have visitors. And typically it's not really a good idea to have visitors sitting in the same stands as the home crowd with a good number of young people who may start fights with rival school students.


In Europe the home and away-fans are also split, but on the same stands. Every country has it's own system depends on how big is the risk of an escalation. In England they put guards around the away fans like a human wall^^. In continental europe normally the away fans are normally split up with a small- plexi-glas, fence or wall from the home fans. Well normally the die-hard away fans have no problem with the average fan but only with the Ultras of the other club. But the Ultras of the home and away fans are far away like in the US :lol:



JJG said:


> You can't compare even MLS stadiums to high school/small colleges, they're built that way for certain reasons.


agree. college is about education, so they should not waste their money for a ultra-modern stadium with boxes, roof and other stuff for a couple of games per year, which are anyway sold out.


----------



## weava

I have to say that after looking at all the MLS stadiums posted, I truly think the US Soccer stadiums look way nicer than the European Stadiums. They look more open and friendly. The Euro stadiums all have a dark, cramped feel. Most MLS stadiums look like they have a AA-AAA Baseball stadium charm to them. Well besides Vancouver, DC, red bell, those look like bad atmospheres to me. I'm not completely against roofs as I think the MLS roofs like good for the most part, but the Euro style roofs are to big and don't allow in any sunlight, might as well be full roofs as they are dank and remind me of me least favorite NFL stadiums, the domes and retractable roof stadiums.


----------



## robbery4774

JJG said:


> .... and can someone please explain to me why people say American stadiums are "unfinished"? PLEASE tell me.


1. roof: A roof normally gives the stadium a individual note, but also can create a special and louder atmosphere(made the experience). But we don't like indoor-arenas in football, because that kills the atmosphere without light and weather condition. 

2. For me personal american stadiums don't look unfinished but some of them look clunky and soulless like Metlife stadium. And they tend to divide standing with big boxes into the lower stand which are very close to the pitch and the upper stand where you are miles away from the seat. I prefer a stadium which offers everybody a good view.

But there also a lot of american stadiums i really like => seattle stadium, Reliant Stadium or Cowboys and others of course, too.


----------



## carnifex2005

Estadio Juan Ramón Loubriel in Bayamon, Puerto Rico is just starting a renovation to become a 20,000 seat soccer specific stadium. The JRL is home to the Puerto Rico Islanders of the NASL (US Division Two).


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^San Jose is on the cusp of getting theirs going. One or two more protests to go. So that just leaves New England and DC to get off their arse's.


----------



## JJG

robbery4774 said:


> agree. college is about education, *so they should not waste their money for a ultra-modern stadium with boxes, roof and other stuff for a couple of games per year,* which are anyway sold out.


*clears throat*

Uh, yeah... actually colleges spend plenty of money on renovations and boxes for their stadiums/ballparks/arenas on a constant basis. Some more than others. Just check several college football stadiums in just the SOUTH and you'll see that millions of dollars are spent on athletics (mainly football since it is the big money maker).

And these are just for _high schools_ in Texas:


















































































There are even some with their own indoor practice facilities like Highland Park (home of Matt Stafford)









The amount of money spent on just high school football stadiums here in Texas is ridiculous. Some look better than a few college stadiums, even.

But I will agree that some of our stadiums are a bit soulless.

Sorry to get off topic.


----------



## GunnerJacket

carnifex2005 said:


> Estadio Juan Ramón Loubriel in Bayamon, Puerto Rico is just starting a renovation to become a 20,000 seat soccer specific stadium. The JRL is home to the Puerto Rico Islanders of the NASL (US Division Two).


Good for them. A shame they couldn't also reconfigure the "open" end of the existing baseball stand so that those sideline seats aren't oriented away from the near goal. But I imagine that will be addressed if they ever need to expand in the future.


----------



## GunnerJacket

BoulderGrad said:


> ^^San Jose is on the cusp of getting theirs going. One or two more protests to go. So that just leaves New England and DC to get off their arse's.


By comparison United have been off their arse since Columbus gave MLS a model. It's the District that's been stonewalling them regarding an acceptable site.


----------



## iamawesomezero

Awesome!


----------



## JJG

Rev Stickleback said:


> Unfortunately just raising a question like that somehow immediatelty morphs into a tedious "this is good and that is crap" debate.


....from who?


----------



## mgk920

Darloeye said:


> In soccer the seats along the sideline are where at of the boxes are for the richer/fairweather fans to sit and take in the games.
> 
> What names sound like a railway terminal?
> 
> Could Puerto Rico land a MLS Franchise?


Well, I suppose that they could if MLS would combine with the NASL and others to implement a promotion-relegation system.

Also, for end zone v. sideline seats, my family has a season ticket subscription to two very close-up seats in the south end zone at Lambeau Field (NFL Packers) and I will say that they are much more PURE FUN than sideline or skybox seats - they score in the end zones, not 40 rows up at mid-field, and I consider goal-line stands to be the most exciting parts of NFL games.

Mike


----------



## Darloeye

Yep plus seeing the lambeau leap has got to be great.


----------



## nyrmetros

mattec said:


> he's talking about the star shaped forts that were popular along the east coast in the 18th and 19th century.
> 
> the base of the Statue of Liberty (Fort Wood) is an example of one; as is Fort McHenry in Baltimore is another.
> 
> here's a picture of Ft. Jay, which is another example.


I still think this would be awesome for either DC or boston to build.


----------



## oxo

All these stadiums are lacking in design subtlety and look quite brutalist, even those trying not to.

Unlike in parts of Europe, the concepts of refinement, sophistication and finesse are completely alien to the average American. 
Its all about big cars, big burgers and big bucks – basically the one with the biggest dick wins.


----------



## eMKay

oxo said:


> All these stadiums are lacking in design subtlety and look quite brutalist, even those trying not to.
> 
> Unlike in parts of Europe, the concepts of refinement, sophistication and finesse are completely alien to the average American.
> Its all about big cars, big burgers and big bucks – basically the one with the biggest dick wins.


This is so ignorant and far from the truth it's comical. I'm wondering what prompted this idiotic post, jealousy? Inferiority complex? Must be.


----------



## flierfy

Darloeye said:


> What names sound like a railway terminal?


Houston 1836


----------



## SIC

oxo said:


> All these stadiums are lacking in design subtlety and look quite brutalist, even those trying not to.
> 
> Unlike in parts of Europe, the concepts of refinement, sophistication and finesse are completely alien to the average American.
> Its all about big cars, big burgers and big bucks – basically the one with the biggest dick wins.


----------



## vitaming

Darloeye said:


> Could Puerto Rico land a MLS Franchise?


Bet on it, added with a Miami team for a derby as teams 21 and 22. Assuming the Cosmos can work a stadium out and are 20.


----------



## WesTexas

oxo said:


> All these stadiums are lacking in design subtlety and look quite brutalist, even those trying not to.
> 
> Unlike in parts of Europe, the concepts of refinement, sophistication and finesse are completely alien to the average American.
> Its all about big cars, big burgers and big bucks – basically the one with the biggest dick wins.


----------



## robbery4774

oxo said:


> All these stadiums are lacking in design subtlety and look quite brutalist, even those trying not to.
> 
> Unlike in parts of Europe, the concepts of refinement, sophistication and finesse are completely alien to the average American.
> Its all about big cars, big burgers and big bucks – basically the one with the biggest dick wins.


:nuts::nuts::nuts: chill oxo. Every nation has its own style you have to accept it. True in america everything is bigger; the houses, streets, cars, food, buildings etc... Nothing wrong about it. 

Well most football stadiums are build economically for a couple of games per year which are anyway sold out. And the owners pay for it, so they probably don't want to waste their money for a nice design. The european fans are more sensitive about "their" stadium, but there are also more games played per year. 

I like the most american soccer stadiums. But they also have a more in common with typical european stadiums than american. The New York Red Bull stadim looks like the Salzburg Red Bull stadium but also like the stadiums of TSG Hoffenheim and Espanyol Barcelona. :cheers:


----------



## WesTexas

Let me point out to all the Euros who are going to come in here and trash talk the US soccer Specific Stadiums that our Soccer Stadiums are built for future expansion. Why build stands that will just be torn down for crowds that arnt showing up yet?


----------



## derzberb

^^ agree. many stadiums in europe developed over a century too. think about bernabeo or nou camp. at early stages there were onliy one tier-levels. now there are three or more. 

also remind that ist is not about sophistication of archtitektur but the athmosphere created by spectators, that make an event unforgettable.


----------



## WesTexas

Preaching to the choir!!! ^^


----------



## Topher51

oxo said:


> All these stadiums are lacking in design subtlety and look quite brutalist, even those trying not to.
> 
> Unlike in parts of Europe, the concepts of refinement, sophistication and finesse are completely alien to the average American.
> Its all about big cars, big burgers and big bucks – basically the one with the biggest dick wins.


The fact of the matter is that soccer in the US is not the big money sport it is in Europe. Owner and municipalities are not going to spend the extra money it takes to turn a stadium into an elegant structure when that can be better spent on museums, concert halls and theaters. No one here gets their culture from 3 hours at a ballgame. 

What is an average American in your mind? This is the most culturally diverse country in the world. Do you think everyone here drives a Hummer, owns a small arsenal of firearms and kills their own dinner every night? 

I doubt many Americans who would fall into your narrow minded view of our country would spend much time on a soccer stadium thread, so why don’t you take your ignorant thoughts and take them somewhere else?


----------



## ryebreadraz

vitaming said:


> Bet on it, added with a Miami team for a derby as teams 21 and 22. Assuming the Cosmos can work a stadium out and are 20.


Highly unlikely. San Juan would be the 46th biggest market in the U.S. That's not going to get MLS overly excited and it doesn't have the businesses to match those of the big U.S. cities. If MLS really does look for a team to pair with Miami, Atlanta, Tampa, Orlando, Nashville and somewhere in N. Carolina are all more likely.


----------



## GunnerJacket

robbery4774 said:


> The New York Red Bull stadim looks like the Salzburg Red Bull stadium but also like the stadiums of TSG Hoffenheim and Espanyol Barcelona. :cheers:


A common error but actually Red Bull Arena is a near identical clone of Hypo Arena in Klagenfurt (despite different architects). The Bullen Arena in Salzburg has a comparable 2 tier interior but is squared in form with a flat roof and less obvious section of premium seating.


----------



## GunnerJacket

vitaming said:


> Bet on it, added with a Miami team for a derby as teams 21 and 22. Assuming the Cosmos can work a stadium out and are 20.


I'm with ryebread in saying that'd be a bad bet. MLS is wise to stick with markets that are more soccer savvy and hungry, and that the Islanders are prospering in the lower levels means they deserve their shot. However, MLS is also at a point where they can actually afford to be more finicky and will only take on those teams that will draw more national appeal. They're also being very cautious in this process because they haven't rushed to name #20 despite several interested parties and the issues that come with imbalanced scheduling. I'm not saying PR would be a flop, but I think MLS has a very defined list of targeted markets that it wants to secure first, as probably advised to them by advertisers and broadcast partners. NY#2, St. Louis, Phoenix, etc.


----------



## RaiderATO

oxo said:


> All these stadiums are lacking in design subtlety and look quite brutalist, even those trying not to.
> 
> Unlike in parts of Europe, the concepts of refinement, sophistication and finesse are completely alien to the average American.
> Its all about big cars, big burgers and big bucks – *basically the one with the biggest dick wins*.


Jealous?:lol:


----------



## tommassi

WesTexas said:


> Let me point out to all the Euros who are going to come in here and trash talk the US soccer Specific Stadiums that our Soccer Stadiums are built for future expansion. Why build stands that will just be torn down for crowds that arnt showing up yet?


Well, I'm a Euro and think that 99% of american soccer stadiums look perfectly cool as they are, with no need for expansions or anything whatsoever. :cheers:

And I can actually think of a few places here in Spain that could use some of those stadiums to replace the ones they have now.


----------



## flierfy

oxo said:


> All these stadiums are lacking in design subtlety and look quite brutalist, even those trying not to.
> 
> Unlike in parts of Europe, the concepts of refinement, sophistication and finesse are completely alien to the average American.
> Its all about big cars, big burgers and big bucks – basically the one with the biggest dick wins.


Good point actually. It won't win you many friends in this thread though. People in here are too smug to accept different opinions.


----------



## JJG

flierfy said:


> Good point actually. It won't win you many friends in this thread though. People in here are too smug to accept different opinions.


Opinion or not, giving the whole "your stadium sucks, my stadium is better" thing isn't accepted. 

Just take a look at some of those tags and tell me why people _wouldn't_ jump all over this guy...


----------



## Bori427

vitaming said:


> Bet on it, added with a Miami team for a derby as teams 21 and 22. Assuming the Cosmos can work a stadium out and are 20.


That would be a wonderful dream


----------



## slipperydog

New England Revolution looking at Revere



> Representatives for Robert Kraft have been in contact with Revere Mayor Daniel Rizzo about building a stadium for the New England Revolution, according to a report in the Lynn, Mass. Daily Item.
> 
> Rizzo is working on plan for the 26-acre Wonderland Greyhound Park which was shut down on August 19, 2010; shortly after the state-wide ban on dog racing went into effect. Rizzo is exploring the potential of a satellite college campus with private businesses surrounding it, an arts and cultural center or possibly a stadium for the New England Revolution.


http://nesoccertoday.com/?p=8817


----------



## joezierer

slipperydog said:


> New England Revolution looking at Revere


Looks a hell of a lot closer to Boston than Foxboro, and it looks like a decent site.


----------



## NORIND

y que tal este de cali colombia, donde juega el america de cali el mejor club de colombia


----------



## NORIND

bd popeye said:


> I'm not a soccer fan. ^^ This is one of my pet peeves about soccer. Ads on the uniforms.hno: I don't get it..at all...I assume this is a way to make more revenue.


cada patrocinio de esos genera altos ingresos economicos, por ejemplo esa marca que esta en el pecho es la que mas vale y estariamos hablando de casi un millon y medio de dolares por año y asi con cada uno 










MIREN ESTA NOTICIA DE INGLATERRA

cortecia de : http://banyordonez.blogspot.com/2010/11/premier-league-lidera-el-patrocinio-en.html

PREMIER LEAGUE LIDERA EL PATROCINIO EN LAS CAMISAS

La Premier League inglesa ha adelantado a la Bundesliga de Alemania para convertirse en la liga europea con mayores ingresos por recaudaciones provenientes del patrocinio de la camisa.

La Premier League ha aumentado los ingresos de la camisa de patrocinio en comparación con el año pasado para tomar su total a €128 millones, según la 12 ª edición del informe europeo Jersey global de consultoría de marketing deportivo SPORT MARKT.

El mercado global creció a través de las mejores ligas europeas (Inglaterra, Italia, España, Francia, Alemania y los Países Bajos) en un 18% sobre el año pasado a €470.7 millones.

"La Premier League es el abanderado de patrocinio en camisetas en Europa y representa la plataforma importante para las empresas internacionales que deseen invertir en el fútbol", dijo Gareth Moore, director británico de SPORT MARKT.

"Quince clubes han aumentado sus ingresos de la mejora de ofertas de patrocinio de camiseta, y tres de los cinco clubes con las ofertas más lucrativas en Europa procede de la Premier League".

Manchester United y Liverpool, nuevos acuerdos con AON y Standard Chartered, respectivamente, son los líderes indiscutibles en Europa, cada uno por valor €23,6 millones.

Mientras tanto, FxPro eligió la Liga Premier para hacer su debut en el patrocinio del fútbol y del Tottenham Hotspur con dos patrocinadores en la camisa, Autonomía para los juegos de liga e Investec para los partidos de copa.

Moore prosiguió: "Es fácil ver que cuando una nueva empresa decide invertir grandes cantidades de dinero en patrocinio deportivo, la Liga Premier es el principal destino".
Alemania y Francia, segundo y cuarto puesto, con €118 millones y €58 millones respectivamente, mostraron un aumento impresionante. Francia se benefició de la liberalización de su mercado de las apuestas para superar a España (€ 57,5 millones), y Alemania podría ser el mercado el próximo a ser impulsado por los cambios en la legislación de juego.

Las principales ligas europeas registraron un aumento de los ingresos de patrocinio en sus camisetas, mientras que la figura de los Países Bajos se mantuvo similar al año anterior. Sólo Serie A italiana reportó una disminución de los ingresos por patrocinio.


----------



## bd popeye

NORIND, This thread is about soccer(futbol) stadiums in the USA and MLS...


----------



## WesTexas

English please! I am not going to run all that thru a translator.

I hope The Revolution design a nice stadium. With the past few new stadiums that have been built in the MLS, they have a high standard to live up to.


----------



## Topher51

flierfy said:


> Good point actually. It won't win you many friends in this thread though. People in here are too smug to accept different opinions.


Find one of my posts where I bash a Euro soccer stadium. I like most of them, actually. His second paragraph had nothing to do with stadiums, it was baseless anti-America garbage. I don't go on Euro threads and bitch about how their refined designs and extravagent roofs are contributing to the European financial crisis and F-ing up my 401k.


----------



## massp88

slipperydog said:


> New England Revolution looking at Revere
> 
> 
> 
> http://nesoccertoday.com/?p=8817


This would be big for them. That area has a massive population of Brazilians in Chelsea near by.


----------



## Rev Stickleback

flierfy said:


> Good point actually. It won't win you many friends in this thread though. People in here are too smug to accept different opinions.


which MLS stadiums would you describe at "brutalist"?


Oxo is Polish, and just goes round every thread saying no stadiums are as good in any way as the new ones in Poland.


----------



## WesTexas

Polands "New" stadiums will be out of date in 3 years.


----------



## ryebreadraz

Rever wouldn't be bad. It's obviously a major upgrade from Foxboro, but I'd still much rather see Somerville work out. That'd be an incredible location for the Revs.


----------



## slipperydog

For Boston, rail access is THE most important factor in my opinion.


----------



## vitaming

ryebreadraz said:


> Highly unlikely. *San Juan would be the 46th biggest market in the U.S.* That's not going to get MLS overly excited and it doesn't have the businesses to match those of the big U.S. cities. If MLS really does look for a team to pair with Miami, Atlanta, Tampa, Orlando, Nashville and somewhere in N. Carolina are all more likely.


You have to understand it would be a de facto national team. Plus they'd have decent support in the US, in NY especially. MLS definitely likes 'tribal' fanbases and PR would offer something none of those other cities could. Look at how Atlanta and Tampa support their other teams. NC is a possibility, but again that's kind of a transient area, usually means lots of bandwagon fans.

In fairness Miami can also be like that, but it's also a huge center for Spanish language media with lots of Central and South Americans who might now be interested in their other teams.


----------



## bd popeye

oxo said:


> All these stadiums are lacking in design subtlety and look quite brutalist, even those trying not to.
> 
> Unlike in parts of Europe, the concepts of refinement, sophistication and finesse are completely alien to the average American.
> Its all about big cars, big burgers and big bucks – basically the one with the biggest dick wins.


I must have missed this.

I have a question for the visitor from Poland..

Why is the average attendance in the Ekstraklasa(Top League(football/soccer)) so poor? Only 5200 a game. 

http://www.worldfootball.net/zuschauer/pol-ekstraklasa-2010-2011/1/

The MLS attendance is 17,000 a game.


----------



## JJG

bd popeye said:


> I must have missed this.
> 
> I have a question for the visitor from Poland..
> 
> Why is the average attendance in the Ekstraklasa(Top League(football/soccer)) so poor? Only 5200 a game. The MLS attendance is 17,000 a game.


I'm willing to bet you WON'T get an answer...


----------



## Bori427

ryebreadraz said:


> Highly unlikely. San Juan would be the 46th biggest market in the U.S. That's not going to get MLS overly excited and it doesn't have the businesses to match those of the big U.S. cities. If MLS really does look for a team to pair with Miami, Atlanta, Tampa, Orlando, Nashville and somewhere in N. Carolina are all more likely.


Highly unlikely most likely because soccer ain't popular here. But tell me, how big are the Portland and Salt Lake City markets?


----------



## mgk920

Darloeye said:


> Yep plus seeing the lambeau leap has got to be great.


Interesting in that the practice of jumping into the stands to celebrate a score with the fans, started by Leroy Butler of the Packers after he ran a fumble recovery half the length of the field (after the recovered fumble was flipped to him by Reggie White after he ran it nearly the other half of the field) nearly 20 years ago, then spread around the World fairly quickly. Case in point, I was watching some highlights of a BPL match a couple of weeks ago and, after scoring a goal, a Manchester United player (I forget his name) jumped into the stands while surrounded by several of his teammates.

:yes:

Mike


----------



## master_klon

Latest pictures of Saputo Stadium. Not too much done by the look of it; though from what I heard construction stopped because of the weather. Let's hope this hasn't delayed it too drastically.


----------



## slipperydog

Those are the same pictures that were posted from January


----------



## master_klon

slipperydog said:


> Those are the same pictures that were posted from January


No they aren't.


New interior webcam installed at BBVA Compass Stadium. http://www.houstondynamo.com/stadium/webcam










Some Dynamo fans already complaining about how the seats don't look comfortable and how there are no cupholders. :lol:


----------



## Darloeye

mgk920 said:


> Interesting in that the practice of jumping into the stands to celebrate a score with the fans, started by Leroy Butler of the Packers after he ran a fumble recovery half the length of the field (after the recovered fumble was flipped to him by Reggie White after he ran it nearly the other half of the field) nearly 20 years ago, then spread around the World fairly quickly. Case in point, I was watching some highlights of a *BPL* match a couple of weeks ago and, after scoring a goal, a Manchester United player (I forget his name) jumped into the stands while surrounded by several of his teammates.




Its Called the English Premier League. 

when did Leroy first jump over the wall?


----------



## joezierer

The thing about Puerto Rico having a team is travel. The closest team to San Juan is DC at *1500 miles*. From Kansas City it's 2200 miles. That's a hell of a trip for a game in your own division.


----------



## vanbasten88

Darloeye said:


> Its Called the English Premier League.
> 
> when did Leroy first jump over the wall?


Actually I believe the Brits refer to it as just The Premiership. In England you'll hear it referred to as The Barclay's Premiership for sponsorship reasons. which is where the BPL acronym comes from. Foreigners usually tack on English or Scottish to the front of 'Premier League' to differentiate between the two. Swansea aren't exactly English are they? 
Brits I know hate it being called the EPL as much as American Soccer fans hate MLS being called 'the' MLS.


----------



## robbery4774

mgk920 said:


> Interesting in that the practice of jumping into the stands to celebrate a score with the fans, started by Leroy Butler of the Packers after he ran a fumble recovery half the length of the field (after the recovered fumble was flipped to him by Reggie White after he ran it nearly the other half of the field) nearly 20 years ago, then spread around the World fairly quickly. Case in point, I was watching some highlights of a BPL match a couple of weeks ago and, after scoring a goal, a Manchester United player (I forget his name) jumped into the stands while surrounded by several of his teammates.
> Mike


I think 99 % of all europeans never saw or heard from Leroy Butler celebration

So you watched a Premier league match saw the same celebration and think it"spread around the world". There wasn't even youtube in these days :bash::bash::lol::lol:

Europeans always goung nuts when important goals happens. If you would know...:nuts:


----------



## vitaming

joezierer said:


> The thing about Puerto Rico having a team is travel. The closest team to San Juan is DC at *1500 miles*. From Kansas City it's 2200 miles. That's a hell of a trip for a game in your own division.


They'd have to come with a Miami team.


----------



## GunnerJacket

vitaming said:


> They'd have to come with a Miami team.


In all seriousness, why? The Islanders already play in a smaller league with less revenue and comparable travel costs for reaching places like Edmonton, Minneapolis and San Antonio. True, the rest of the league is no farther than Carolina, but thus far travel logistics aren't THE impediment because, let's face it, if they step up in class they'll have more money and it's not like they'd be traveling to Vancouver every week.

Bottom line, if they're a viable option then MLS would make it work. The value in pairing them with Miami would be trying to make that a rivalry, but would require Miami to feel the same and I'm not sure that's the case. I'm not denying the idea, simply thinking better options will lead MLS elsewhere.


----------



## slipperydog

master_klon said:


> No they aren't.


They are from the club's facebook page and are dated January 19. That's why no progress appears to have been made.


----------



## slipperydog

vanbasten88 said:


> Actually I believe the Brits refer to it as just The Premiership. In England you'll hear it referred to as The Barclay's Premiership for sponsorship reasons. which is where the BPL acronym comes from. Foreigners usually tack on English or Scottish to the front of 'Premier League' to differentiate between the two. Swansea aren't exactly English are they?
> Brits I know hate it being called the EPL as much as American Soccer fans hate MLS being called 'the' MLS.


I couldn't care less if people call it 'the MLS'. I do it too.

Also, it is rightly called the English Premier League because it falls under the umbrella of the FA, which is the official governing body of soccer in England. Because they are large historical clubs in major cities, Swansea and Cardiff just happen to be invited members to the FA.


----------



## JJG

vanbasten88 said:


> Brits I know hate it being called the EPL *as much as American Soccer fans hate MLS being called 'the' MLS*.


....where do ya get that from?

I hear people say 'the' MLS all the time with no issue.


----------



## WesTexas

the NFL
the NBA
the NHL
the MLB
the MLS

who throws a fit about using "the"


----------



## derzberb

the derzberb throws


----------



## vitaming

It's a British/American English thing. In the UK people say 'I'm watching Spurs' or 'I'm watching NFL'. 

Any American fan throwing a fit over 'the MLS' is one of those people who thinks being vaguely culturally British makes them more sophisticated than Joe Public.


----------



## GunnerJacket

vitaming said:


> Any American fan throwing a fit over 'the MLS' is one of those people who thinks being vaguely culturally British makes them more sophisticated than Joe Public.


Crimey! You mean tis'nt true?!! Buggers! :doh:


----------



## master_klon

slipperydog said:


> They are from the club's facebook page and are dated January 19. That's why no progress appears to have been made.


Your having a laugh now. :nuts: I uploaded the January (20th to be precise) photos in January, and now 13 photos were uploaded to facebook 6 hours before I posted them here. Look at how much snow there is in January and compare that to the February photos. Read as well what I wrote above my post, about how they stopped construction.


Grass installation has begun at BBVA Compass Stadium


----------



## slipperydog

master_klon said:


> Your having a laugh now. :nuts: I uploaded the January (20th to be precise) photos in January, and now 13 photos were uploaded to facebook 6 hours before I posted them here. Look at how much snow there is in January and compare that to the February photos. Read as well what I wrote above my post, about how they stopped construction.
> [/IMG]


You might be right, but I sure don't see any difference from the January photos. This stadium may not get done until the end of the season.


----------



## SIC

bd popeye said:


> I must have missed this.
> 
> I have a question for the visitor from Poland..
> 
> Why is the average attendance in the Ekstraklasa(Top League(football/soccer)) so poor? Only 5200 a game.
> 
> http://www.worldfootball.net/zuschauer/pol-ekstraklasa-2010-2011/1/
> 
> The MLS attendance is 17,000 a game.


2nd question: How come Tomas Franskowski couldn't get off the bench for the Fire, then he went back to Poland and became a league leader.


----------



## master_klon

robbery4774 said:


> Seattle is the most popular club in the USA i guess with their great attendance. Do they have plans for an own football stadium?


Do they need it. Their current one is a good size and has great atmosphere. Only problem is the turf.

______________________________________________________________________________

*USWNT 2-1 New Zealand** (Sold out venue: 20,667)*

Goals:
Hannah Wilkinson 49' (NZ)
Alex Morgan 89',90+4' (USA)

Great performance by our girls to hold out the No.1 women's football team for most of the game, but the ref was utter shite. :mad2:

The ball did not cross the line after hitting the post, but the American referee strangely decided to give the goal. The winning goal was then scored after the allotted three minutes of stoppage time had passed, at precisely four and a half minutes. WTF! 



















One complaint though. They need get rid of that concert stage and put a roof right around.


----------



## Rev Stickleback

master_klon said:


> One complaint though. They need get rid of that concert stage and put a roof right around.


The roof thing is very old. There are hundreds of soccer grounds around the world that are uncovered. 

It's one of those things that people tend to prefer what they are used to. Most in northern europe think grounds look better with a roof, while those in the south think grounds look better without one.


The stages tend to be less popular, even in the USA though. I know why they do it, but it's a shame they couldn't come up with a less compromising solution.


----------



## JJG

Rev Stickleback said:


> The roof thing is very old. There are hundreds of soccer grounds around the world that are uncovered.
> 
> It's one of those things that people tend to prefer what they are used to. Most in northern europe think grounds look better with a roof, while those in the south think grounds look better without one.
> 
> 
> The stages tend to be less popular, even in the USA though. I know why they do it, but it's a shame they couldn't come up with a less compromising solution.


That's Pizza Hut Park (or FC Dallas Park? IDK) and they built that stage for concerts... obviously. I don't see that goin' away anytime soon.


----------



## WesTexas

I have seen some pretty good concerts there. It's a nice stadium for what we use it for.


----------



## carnifex2005

Rev Stickleback said:


> The roof thing is very old. There are hundreds of soccer grounds around the world that are uncovered.
> 
> It's one of those things that people tend to prefer what they are used to. Most in northern europe think grounds look better with a roof, while those in the south think grounds look better without one.
> 
> 
> The stages tend to be less popular, even in the USA though. I know why they do it, but it's a shame they couldn't come up with a less compromising solution.


Money probably. Here's Livestrong Sporting Park's stage. Normally that is covered by retractable seating. of course, LSP cost over $100 million more than the FC Dallas stadium.


----------



## bd popeye

> The stages tend to be less popular, even in the USA though. I know why they do it, but it's a shame they couldn't come up with a less compromising solution.


Agreed^^ , that stage is unsightly. I feel it could have been placed on a track and rolled in the stadium when need.


----------



## nyrmetros

master_klon said:


> Do they need it. Their current one is a good size and has great atmosphere. Only problem is the turf.
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> 
> *USWNT 2-1 New Zealand** (Sold out venue: 20,667)*
> 
> Goals:
> Hannah Wilkinson 49' (NZ)
> Alex Morgan 89',90+4' (USA)
> 
> Great performance by our girls to hold out the No.1 women's football team for most of the game, but the ref was utter shite. :mad2:
> 
> The ball did not cross the line after hitting the post, but the American referee strangely decided to give the goal. The winning goal was then scored after the allotted three minutes of stoppage time had passed, at precisely four and a half minutes. WTF!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One complaint though. They need get rid of that concert stage and put a roof right around.


So the USA Womens team sold out Pizza Hut Park.... awesome.... Still not a fan of the stadium design at all. A luxury of things to complain about.


----------



## Benn

Yeah its pretty utilitarian and the location seems less than ideal. But you get what you pay for, they didn't have a $200 million+ budget like KC or New York


----------



## JJG

Benn said:


> Yeah its pretty utilitarian and *the location seems less than ideal.* But you get what you pay for, they didn't have a $200 million+ budget like KC or New York


I also believe Dallas city leaders didn't want it anywhere near downtown. Would have worked out better. 

They had issues with Cowboys Stadium and hell, even getting the American Airlines Center was trouble.

As far as the design goes.... I honestly don't care.


----------



## irving1903

Benn said:


> the location seems less than ideal


It's god awful ! Its takes 45 minutes on a good day to make it up to Frisco. Throw in traffic/construction on Loop 12, 635, and the Dallas North Tollway and you're looking at least an hour drive.


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## Benn

irving1903 said:


> It's god awful ! Its takes 45 minutes on a good day to make it up to Frisco. Throw in traffic/construction on Loop 12, 635, and the Dallas North Tollway and you're looking at least an hour drive.


Yeah thats really shitty, I have only been to Dallas a couple times, so I can't really gauge the distance to various suburbs but an hour is awful even by Texas traffic standards (I've never seen anything quite like Houston in that respect but its a big city I guess). It takes me 15-30 minutes by mass transit to get from my house to any of the pro teams here, within 20 by car but we have everything within the downtowns.


----------



## TexasBoi

JJG said:


> I also believe Dallas city leaders didn't want it anywhere near downtown. Would have worked out better.
> 
> They had issues with Cowboys Stadium and hell, even getting the American Airlines Center was trouble.
> 
> As far as the design goes.... I honestly don't care.


----------



## JJG

TexasBoi said:


>


----------



## WesTexas

TexasBoi said:


>


SATAN!!! Madam NO! She tried to shoot down the AAC and got the Cowboys Stadium shot down, but then had the road in front of her house re-paved 3 times (and only the 40 feet in front of her house!) Worst mayer EVER


----------



## JJG

WesTexas said:


> SATAN!!! Madam NO! She tried to shoot down the AAC and got the Cowboys Stadium shot down, but then had the road in front of her house re-paved 3 times (and only the 40 feet in front of her house!) Worst mayer EVER


Yeah, I remember those days. She wasn't even mayor of _our_ city and even we hated her.


----------



## rantanamo

TexasBoi said:


>



LOL, funny to see Madame No show up on an international forum. Can't really blame her though. This was all Lamar Hunt and several groups including Frisco ISD teaming up to move the team to an "emerging" market. Its like Houston building their new stadium in Conroe.


----------



## soup or man

Lol. Texas politics.


----------



## GunnerJacket

:uh:

Had no idea who that was before today, but I'm already scared of her! Perfect shot the way her hair is casting shadow over just her eyes.


----------



## JJG

soup or man said:


> Lol. Texas politics.


Can't be any worse than Cali politics.

Besides, the Wicked Witch of the East (side of DFW) is gone. 

Bad timing, because Dallas could have the soccer stadium closer to downtown. Would be much, MUCH better.


----------



## soup or man

Regarding The Compass: Is there any plans to add any sort of residential/retail aspect in the area? The Compass looks to sit in a pretty lonely area of downtown Houston.


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## SouthmoreAve

..


----------



## SouthmoreAvenue

Shaping up quite amazingly,













































(From the Dynamo Facebook)

& part of the Convention Center Master Plan includes building a hotel on the Dynamo Stadium side of 59, so that could be in store for the future. Something that might also come to fruition is the EaDo Promenade directly in front of the stadium:


----------



## JJG

Boy, this has really turned into "The Dynamo Sho" lately, hasn't it? :lol:


----------



## carnifex2005

JJG said:


> Boy, this has really turned into "The Dynamo Sho" lately, hasn't it? :lol:


San Jose finally got approval tonight for their stadium. The city council told the NIMBY's to screw off. 

_A capacity crowd at San Jose City Hall's council chamber Wednesday night erupted into loud cheers and applause after the city's Planning Commission gave a unanimous and final green light to a long-awaited $60 million permanent home for the San Jose Earthquakes.

After three hours of public testimony, the commission voted 6 to 0 to uphold a soccer stadium permit that was appealed last month by neighbors in the area. Only commissioner Hope Cahan was absent.

"From the evidence I've seen, a lot of mitigation issues were taken by the applicant, and as someone said, 'If you can't put it here, where can you put it?' " said Commissioner Ed Abelite of the decision.

"They have made amazing concessions, beyond anything I have seen before in a stadium like this," echoed Commissioner Norman Kline.

The audience of about 330 mostly soccer fans had shown up to encourage the commission to reject an appeal by residents who live near the proposed soccer stadium and worry that it will adversely affect their everyday lives.

Those neighbors emphasized that they are not opposed to a stadium, they just want more protection.

"I'm very concerned about the impacts it will have, as currently permitted, on my quality of life," said John Urban, a member of the Newhall Neighborhood Association. He spoke on behalf of another neighbor who filed an appeal to delay the project's permit until further study could be done. Urban said the permit does not specify how noise from the stadium will be measured, monitored or enforced, and asked the commission to allow the planning department to reopen the project's environmental impact report to review that issue.

Of the dozens of fans who spoke in support of the stadium, however, several questioned how a stadium bounded by parking lots on the north, the airport on the east, a freeway to the south and a railroad to the west could affect neighbors._


----------



## JJG

Bout time. Startin' to wonder about San Jose.

.... who's next?


----------



## bd popeye

Happy to see the San Jose stadium project go forth...for now. 

It is difficult in California to build pro stadiums...the neighbors will always complain. Or some environmentalist will complain or some anti-tax guru will file a law suit against the stadium. 

I lived in California for 26 years.


----------



## MrChavcore

i think these stadiums are fantastic and clearly show the amazing growth of football in the US. they may not be massive goliath's the size of the emirates but when you compare them to the english equivalents (dw stadium, liberty stadium, britannia stadium, american express arena) they really do match up well. i've been following the mls on espn and i've got to say im pleasantly suprised. i definitely find it more entertaining than say for instance the dutch or portuguese leagues.


----------



## derzberb

bd popeye said:


> It is difficult in California to build pro stadiums ..


thats interesting. is it difficult tu built stadiums everywhere in the US? (I guess it is not.) where is it more or less difficult, depending on what?


----------



## bd popeye

derzberb said:


> thats interesting. is it difficult tu built stadiums everywhere in the US? (I guess it is not.) where is it more or less difficult, depending on what?


The funding is the stumbling block. If the majority of the funding is public money..stand by for a fight.. but still stadiums get built. Most of the MLS stadiums were built with a majority of private funds. Correct me if I'm incorrect.

Since 1989 .This is the approximate number of professional stadiums built in the US. Some teams share stadiums.

23 MLB stadiums have been built

21 NFL stadiums

40(?) NBA & NHL arenas..including Canada

12 MLS stadiums


----------



## ryebreadraz

Most MLS stadiums get public funding. Often the selling point is the gaggle of fields they build around the stadium that they use for youth tournaments and other things that they say is a "community asset." Off the top of my head, I know Dicks Sporting Goods Park, PPL Park, Pizza Hut Park, Jeld-Wen, Rio Tinto and Toyota Park all got public funding. Up in Canada, BC Place and BMO Field did too.

As popeye noted, the state of California does not help contribute to stadiums of any kind often. The Home Depot Center and now the Quakes Stadium are both entirely private. In other sports, the Chargers, Raiders, Sac Kings, A's and until their new stadium is done, 49ers, all had some of the worst venues in their respective leagues because the public wouldn't kick in on a new place.

In addition, California state environmental laws are among the toughest in the nation, adding to costs and results in some long, drawn out legal battles, although a new law that expedites the legal process on major projects should help.


----------



## undertaker89

I know this is not a right place to ask but can anyone tell me what is the average salary in soccer in USA, and 
whether there is in soccer salary cap like in basketball?


----------



## BoulderGrad

undertaker89 said:


> I know this is not a right place to ask but can anyone tell me what is the average salary in soccer in USA, and
> whether there is in football salary cap like in basketball?


Average is $154,000/yr
http://goal.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/10/m-l-s-salary-figures-released/


Very strict salary cap, but each team is allowed 3 "designated players" who they can pay whatever they please, but it only counts a certain amount towards the salary cap.


----------



## bd popeye

ryebreadraz said:


> Most MLS stadiums get public funding. Often the selling point is the gaggle of fields they build around the stadium that they use for youth tournaments and other things that they say is a "community asset." Off the top of my head, I know Dicks Sporting Goods Park, PPL Park, Pizza Hut Park, Jeld-Wen, Rio Tinto and Toyota Park all got public funding. Up in Canada, BC Place and BMO Field did too.


I stand corrected! Thank you. only two of the new SSS are 100% fully privately funded.. Columbus Crew stadium and Home Depot center.

Here's an excellent link about MLS stadium funding.. a little dated, 2009, but still informative.

*Overview of MLS Stadium Financing*


----------



## carnifex2005

bd popeye said:


> The funding is the stumbling block. If the majority of the funding is public money..stand by for a fight.. but still stadiums get built. Most of the MLS stadiums were built with a majority of private funds. Correct me if I'm incorrect.
> 
> Since 1989 .This is the approximate number of professional stadiums built in the US. Some teams share stadiums.
> 
> 23 MLB stadiums have been built
> 
> 21 NFL stadiums
> 
> 40(?) NBA & NHL arenas..including Canada
> 
> 12 MLS stadiums


Out of all of those new stadiums only four are from California and out of those four only Petco Park in San Diego (for the baseball Padres) used public money. It is extremely difficult to use public funds in California for stadia.


----------



## undertaker89

BoulderGrad said:


> Average is $154,000/yr
> http://goal.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/10/m-l-s-salary-figures-released/
> 
> 
> Very strict salary cap, but each team is allowed 3 "designated players" who they can pay whatever they please, but it only counts a certain amount towards the salary cap.


Tnx :cheers:


----------



## nomarandlee

Melissa88888 said:


> Toyota Park; Home of the Chicago Fire


Not showing up.


----------



## bd popeye

> Out of all of those new stadiums only four are from California and out of those four only Petco Park in San Diego (for the baseball Padres) used public money. It is extremely difficult to use public funds in California for stadia.


exactly!!..this is what happened during the construction of Petco Park.from wiki with my edit;



> The ballpark was originally scheduled to open for the 2002 season; however, construction was temporarily suspended for legal and political reasons.(After being delayed for two years by 17 lawsuits and a federal investigation into Padres owner John Moores
> stock dealings with a city councilwoman, $449 million Petco Park finally opened on April 8, 2004 with a game
> between the Padres and San Francisco Giants. ) One portion of this was a court decision which nullified a ballot proposition which had already been passed (approving the city's portion of the stadium financing package), and required that the proposition be put to the voters a second time. Another delay resulted from the Western Metal Supply Co. building being declared a historic landmark, which prevented its demolition. After court hearings, it was determined that its landmark status only applies to the exterior facade, as it was supported entirely by panoramic photographs of the early San Diego skyline, and the building was renovated and included in the stadium design in an example of adaptive reuse.
> 
> The resulting delays required the Padres to play the 2002 and 2003 seasons at Qualcomm Stadium.


Petco has been used several times for soccer & rugby.












> A 2005 friendly match between Mexico and Sweden.


----------



## Welkin

carnifex2005 said:


> Out of all of those new stadiums only four are from California and out of those four only Petco Park in San Diego (for the baseball Padres) used public money. It is extremely difficult to use public funds in California for stadia.


Except for the Bay Area. It looks like Santa Clara is going to build the 49ers a new stadium regardless of all the protests, lawsuits and voter backlash. They are even trying to fast track the stadium to get ahead of the lawsuits. Check out www.fieldofschemes.com for the whole story.


----------



## Otto Racecar

I can see what people are saying about 12 year olds changing their minds but this isn't a poll of 10 to 15yr olds. My sports tastes haven't changed really since I was 16. I ran track in hs but I never considered that my favorite sport and really how many 18 to 24 yr olds are just saying soccer because they currently play it? You could also make that same argument for football,basketball,and baseball.I also don't buy the concept that soccer fans don't like other sports. I have never seen anything that would lead me to believe that the ratio of soccer fans who only like soccer is any higher then lets say football fans who only like football. Believe it or not younger fans up until their 30's are much more receptive to soccer then previous generations and although I believe football and basketball will still be king in my lifetime I can see soccer's popularity steadily increasing while baseball's popularity diminishes as a whole outside of certain markets.


----------



## joezierer

weava said:


> Combine NBA and NCAA and basketball is still higher, and consider many basketball/baseball fans are also fans of other sports where soccer fans are more likely to be stand alone and not follow other sports and that also makes soccers numbers look better than they actually are.


As someone who is in the tail end of that group (24) I can tell you that I follow College Basketball religiously but I refuse to watch the NBA. Also I watch MLS/MLB/NCAA Basketball/NCAA Football/NFL/and anything else espn3 might be showing like Rugby League.


----------



## SIC

What that poll really shows is the influence latinos are having in this country. Most of them are under the 14. The latino population in the US is in the midst of a baby boom of it's own, I say boom because it's probably temporary. 
As the 2nd and 3rd and 4th generation latinos all see their birth rate drop to average american levels. Anyway, you'll see latinos assimilate for the most part, but what they'll bring with them will be a love of soccer.
As the baby boomers retire and no longer command the sports desks, you'll see soccer get more and more coverage until it's on par with the other major leagues. Especially once the Gen X'ers and Gen Y kids get in positions of influence.


----------



## eMKay

SIC said:


> What that poll really shows is the influence latinos are having in this country. Most of them are under the 14. The latino population in the US is in the midst of a baby boom of it's own, I say boom because it's probably temporary.
> As the 2nd and 3rd and 4th generation latinos all see their birth rate drop to average american levels. Anyway, you'll see latinos assimilate for the most part, but what they'll bring with them will be a love of soccer.
> As the baby boomers retire and no longer command the sports desks, you'll see soccer get more and more coverage until it's on par with the other major leagues. Especially once the Gen X'ers and Gen Y kids get in positions of influence.


I don't think so. A lot of children play soccer, therefore they would call it their "favorite" sport. I would have when I was a child, because that's what I played. But as an adult it's 3rd on my list. NHL, NFL, Soccer (MLS, EPL, and local NASL team), MLB, College BB.

Now I do agree that soccer is on the rise in the US, and this poll reflects that a little bit, but it's still a poll of children, and can't be trusted as any sort of "fact"


----------



## Hansadyret

At least that line has a long term trend upwards, that can only be positive US soccer and MLS.


----------



## Otto Racecar

eMKay said:


> I don't think so. A lot of children play soccer, therefore they would call it their "favorite" sport. I would have when I was a child, because that's what I played. But as an adult it's 3rd on my list. NHL, NFL, Soccer (MLS, EPL, and local NASL team), MLB, College BB.
> 
> Now I do agree that soccer is on the rise in the US, and this poll reflects that a little bit, but it's still a poll of children, and can't be trusted as any sort of "fact"


Although I see where you're coming from, I really don't think that theres going to be a whole lot of change in sports preference from high school and college age( and slightly older) americans to when they get older. I would agree it may apply to 12 yr olds but as I said in a prior post, that logic could also apply to all of the other sports as well. If anything I've noticed that the older I get the more people my age(32) who didn't enjoy soccer when they are younger are now enjoying it as they have learned the nuances of the game. Keep in mind these are also people who've grown up with a pro soccer league in the states and watching EPL and other euro leagues on tv.


----------



## slipperydog

eMKay said:


> I don't think so. A lot of children play soccer, therefore they would call it their "favorite" sport. I would have when I was a child, because that's what I played. But as an adult it's 3rd on my list. NHL, NFL, Soccer (MLS, EPL, and local NASL team), MLB, College BB.
> 
> Now I do agree that soccer is on the rise in the US, and this poll reflects that a little bit, but it's still a poll of children, and can't be trusted as any sort of "fact"



1) "This is a poll of children". Not really, the children that you are referring to that simply "copy" whatever sport they play are in the 5-10 range. These are basically teenagers and college kids. Pretty sure most of them know what their favorite sport is by the time they're 14 (freshman year of high school). I know I definitely knew what my favorite sport was in junior high. Which was college football. However, I was a baseball/soccer player throughout my adolescence, and had only played one year of competitive football in my entire life. Now I played soccer every Saturday as a kid, but I knew next to nothing about the professional and international game. So it really had little to do with my participation or athletic skills. 

2) You also have to consider the growth that soccer has had in this country from an accessibility standpoint. Nowadays with television coverage and the Internet, soccer is way more accessible to kids than it was when we were young. And I'm in my mid-twenties. Soccer has become my favorite sport, just ahead of college football. I just didn't know how awesome it was because I wasn't exposed to it as a kid. This poll is likely made up of two groups: a) kids that have grown up in the new "soccer generation", and b) people like me, who have "found" soccer. Suffice to say, the trajectory that soccer is on is very positive right now.


----------



## fermone04

Let's be realistic the favorite sport all around the world is fut-bol in European, Southern, Central American , Asian countries it’s been the favorite sport for over 100 years, the US futbol popularity has grown in the past 20 years since the US world cup and MLS the sport has grown and huge steps, we also need to take into consideration that huge teams like Madrid, Man U, & especially Barcelona have grown huge in fans lately so obviously everybody wants to follow them, kids are playing more futbol more in days also need to consider that more Hispanics and Old European established in the US still follow their sport, the media its broadcasting more EPL games like in Sunday =) I just found out that they play them early Sunday like a month ago and now I’m all on it, and also the MLS has grown so much and copying all the EPL, NFL , strategic marketing moves, so obviously more fans will eventually be watching futbol, Mexican league hired the developers of the EPL and some of their plans are to create a more competitive league since they are feeling left behind, they built 2 new stadiums ( Chivas & Santos ) and one on the works for Monerrey why?? The MLS and Soccer has grown so much in this country, me I Love sports everything that has a ball, glove or some fools hitting at each other I’m watching, but going back to soccer shit I love the sport, my humble opinion .


----------



## The Game Is Up

I'm going to vouch for slipperydog's opinion, especially the second part.

How many of you are aware that we have an under-20 women's national soccer team? I bet many of you weren't even aware of that and that there are teams in the under-17 and under-23 levels for women. A few more may know about the youth teams for men. Those who are deeply involved in the soccer community are well aware of these facts but the casual fans wouldn't ever have a clue that there are such things.

Well, guess what? The under-20 women's team is currently participating in the qualifying tournament in Panama that would determine who goes from the Concacaf region to the World Cup in the under-20 level. The previous two teams from the under-20 level had players such as Alex Morgan and Sidney Leroux, who now are in the senior team. Right now, people can go watch the current team via a stream provided by Concacaf. I bet the number of viewers are in the thousands. Most likely family members of the players involved and a few diehard women's soccer fans mixed in. 

The point is now we can watch those teams play if we want to. Years ago, that was not possible. Nobody knew they had such thing. Heck, it was only thirteen years ago that people became enamored with Mia Hamm, Brandi Chastain and Kristine Lilly (remember them?). When you walk back a few yards and look at the whole picture you would see how deep the inroads that association football have made in a culture as hostile to it as ours is. The thing that ties them all together is communication. No longer is the avid soccer fan forced to navigate a culture where the vast majority couldn't care less and even go rude on him, when through a few connections he/she can debate the intricacies of the game with like-minded persons from all over the world. When soccer fans talk to other soccer fans, eventually ideas start forming. Supporter groups are founded. Campaigns to get local pro clubs (Sons of Ben, google it) get started. Sooner or later, a small supporter culture gets going where, for 100 years, the flame was only kept alive by the old ethic clubs from the first immigrant wave (I won't count the old NASL, although that helped to get the original Timbers and Sounders supporter groups started).

Look, I am realistic and understand that it's always going to followed by a minority of people as a percentage of the population. However, we are in the conversation. That to me is a major victory.

Back to topic, I think DC United and CUSA should be the next ones to have stadia projects planned.


----------



## krnboy1009

Even if soccer was huge in US we still wouldnt care about women's under 20 soccer team. 

No one cares about WNBA. Women's team sports are irrelevant here in general, at least when it comes to attendance and interest.


----------



## IanCleverly

carnifex2005 said:


> The San Antonio Scorpions FC of the NASL (US Div 2) have revealed their stadium construction plans (clearly with an eye to moving up to MLS in the future). The stadium will start construction in the spring.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phase I: 6100 seats, 16 VIP Suites
> Phase II: 9000 seats, 16 VIP Suites
> Phase III: 11000 seats, 34 VIP Suites
> Phase IV: 14000 seats, 34 VIP Suites
> Phase V: 18000 seats, 34 VIP Suites


A ground-breaking ceremony was held last week for construction to start, as noted on their Website


----------



## Topher51

krnboy1009 said:


> Even if soccer was huge in US we still wouldnt care about women's under 20 soccer team.
> 
> No one cares about WNBA. Women's team sports are irrelevant here in general, at least when it comes to attendance and interest.


Generally speaking, yes. However, the women's US national soccer team draws well and gets good TV ratings. Also, women's college basketball programs like UConn & Tennessee usually draw better than the men.


----------



## vitaming

BBVA to host USA rugby: http://www.chron.com/sports/article/U-S-rugby-team-coming-to-BBVA-Compass-Stadium-3387057.php


----------



## will101

krnboy1009 said:


> Even if soccer was huge in US we still wouldnt care about women's under 20 soccer team.
> 
> No one cares about WNBA. Women's team sports are irrelevant here in general, at least when it comes to attendance and interest.


I think the 90,185 who attended the Women's Cup Final in 1999 at Pasadena might disagree with you on that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_FIFA_Women's_World_Cup


----------



## will101

IanCleverly said:


> A ground-breaking ceremony was held last week for construction to start, as noted on their Website


So this is next door to their current home at Heroes Stadium?


----------



## Otto Racecar

Man, I do not like the look of phaseIV at all. Hopefully if it ever comes to that phase of expansion they will take another route.


----------



## slipperydog

krnboy1009 said:


> Even if soccer was huge in US we still wouldnt care about women's under 20 soccer team.


That's not really his point. His point is that now, you can actually WATCH those games, and watch them LIVE, from a mobile phone, anywhere in the WORLD. The accessibility of soccer, even at the minor and youth levels, is light years ahead of where it was just 8-10 years ago. The saturation has increased across the board.


----------



## JJG

Women's US soccer team and a handful of women's college hoops teams, yes.

But what about the OTHER hundreds of female college teams and pro sports leagues?

Not tryin' to diss, but female athelets don't bring in near as many as male athelets do outside of soccer.


----------



## JJG

Otto Racecar said:


> Man, I do not like the look of phaseIV at all. Hopefully if it ever comes to that phase of expansion they will take another route.


Phase V, I can agree, but what's wrong with Phase IV?


----------



## slipperydog

Rogers Centre set up just prior to Champions League match tonight


----------



## hngcm

slipperydog said:


> The league will probably settle on 22 teams. New York will obviously get one, and the commissioner has been very positive on Orlando of late. In my view, the final one will come down to Detroit or Minneapolis, whichever can get an ownership group and stadium plan together first. Also, I wouldn't be surprised to see Chivas move to the Inland Empire or even San Diego. They are in desperate need of an overall refresh from a brand and location standpoint.


22 makes for 11 team conferences...a no no.

24 is a good number. 

12 in each conference, maybe divide them into 4 team divisions.

play divisional games 3 times (9 games), conference games twice (16 games), interconference once (12 games) for a total of 37 games.


----------



## slipperydog

hngcm said:


> 22 makes for 11 team conferences...a no no.
> 
> 24 is a good number.
> 
> 12 in each conference, maybe divide them into 4 team divisions.
> 
> play divisional games 3 times (9 games), conference games twice (16 games), interconference once (12 games) for a total of 37 games.


Why is that a "no no"?

As for divisions, that's pointless and dumb.


----------



## MS20

hngcm said:


> 22 makes for 11 team conferences...a no no.
> 
> 24 is a good number.
> 
> 12 in each conference, maybe divide them into 4 team divisions.
> 
> play divisional games 3 times (9 games), conference games twice (16 games), interconference once (12 games) for a total of 37 games.


Agree about 24, but not the divisional stuff. 24 makes two conferences, with 12 on each. Home and away against conference, plus either home or away against other conference teams makes for a balanced schedule of 34 games.


----------



## SIC

JJG said:


> .... why move Columbus? Aren't they the first to start the whole SSS movement?


Have you been to Crew stadium? It was built cheap and it's not aging well. Do you remember the temporary field that Vancouver played in last season? Well, imagine it 13 years later and that's what crew field is.

Their attendance is pathetic, even when they won MLS cup. Yes, way lower than the "failure" of Chivas USA. I don't see how one can support and see the need to move Chivas but not Columbus. The city has not embraced this team in 10 years. Everytime I've been there I've see maybe 10k at the most and that's being generous, it's sad. Since they had a really a good team at the time.

I do think, Indianapolis/Chicago/St Louis could be an amazing rivalry going forward. The city's are between 4-5 hours apart and to a Midwesterner that's a short road trip. So you'd see tons of away travel. There's also animosity between the cities and the fans of those cities that stretches back centuries.


----------



## Welkin

SIC said:


> Have you been to Crew stadium? It was built cheap and it's not aging well. Do you remember the temporary field that Vancouver played in last season? Well, imagine it 13 years later and that's what crew field is.
> 
> Their attendance is pathetic, even when they won MLS cup. Yes, way lower than the "failure" of Chivas USA. I don't see how one can support and see the need to move Chivas but not Columbus. The city has not embraced this team in 10 years. Everytime I've been there I've see maybe 10k at the most and that's being generous, it's sad. Since they had a really a good team at the time.
> 
> I do think, Indianapolis/Chicago/St Louis could be an amazing rivalry going forward. The city's are between 4-5 hours apart and to a Midwesterner that's a short road trip. So you'd see tons of away travel. There's also animosity between the cities and the fans of those cities that stretches back centuries.


I have to agree with this 100%. I have been to several TFC matches in Columbus and it is just sad to see the lack of support. 10,000 hard core fans seems about right, but you need more than that to make a successful MLS franchise these days. Columbus was part of the initial MLS plan to go after mid-size cities without a lot of summer sports competition. Unfortunately (or actually I think fortunately) the MLS has passed cities like Columbus by and it has grow into a league that can hold it's own in large metro markets. If they could get a new stadium, a move to St. Louis would be a nice fit. Think about the Kansas City-St. Louis-Chicago rivalry. It would be interesting.


----------



## ryebreadraz

The Hunts are committed to Columbus, while neither Indianapolis nor St. Louis has an ownership group. If St. Louis had one they would have a team by now. It's the same thing that's going to hold Orlando up.


----------



## Commandant

Why don't the Columbus Crew fix up Cooper Stadium? They can use the existing infrastructure to keep the costs down instead of trying to build an entirely new facility... It's in a better locale, and yes, baseball fields are horrible places to watch a game, but the facility would be their own, to do what they want...


----------



## joezierer

Didn't the Crew just build a brand new stadium that they own?


----------



## will101

joezierer said:


> Didn't the Crew just build a brand new stadium that they own?


It opened in 1999.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus_Crew_Stadium


----------



## bd popeye

Commandant. I posted this previously...luv your avatar!!..To me it pays honors to those that did not get to play MLB.

I can see old Cooper stadium being turned into an 18,000 - 20,000 seat SSS. Good idea. Just build a grandstand from the right field foul line to the left field wall..simple.


----------



## Commandant

joezierer said:


> Didn't the Crew just build a brand new stadium that they own?


Since 2010, they've been looking for a new facility:



> Hunt said 11-year-old Crew Stadium, which his father funded and built, remains “a fantastic venue to watch a soccer game.” But the team must look at its long-term facility needs, he said, including a new stadium. “I know from having been in the sports business so long that stadium development takes a number of years,” Hunt said. “You need to think about what the next step is.” Located on the state-owned Ohio Expo Center fairgrounds, Crew Stadium once was the only stadium in Major League Soccer built solely for soccer. Today, nine of the league’s 16 venues are soccer-specific with more under development. Crew President and General Manager Mark McCullers said Crew Stadium remains an iconic soccer site, but the team needs to look out five to 10 years for its facility needs. The club continues to seek a site for a new practice facility, possibly on Columbus’ suburban east side, he said, and it remains interested in finding a downtown location, especially in the Arena District, for a stadium.





bd popeye said:


> Commandant. I posted this previously...luv your avatar!!..To me it pays honors to those that did not get to play MLB.
> 
> I can see old Cooper stadium being turned into an 18,000 - 20,000 seat SSS. Good idea. Just build a grandstand from the right field foul line to the left field wall..simple.


Thanks for the kind words! :cheers:


----------



## Otto Racecar

bd popeye said:


> Commandant. I posted this previously...luv your avatar!!..To me it pays honors to those that did not get to play MLB.
> 
> I can see old Cooper stadium being turned into an 18,000 - 20,000 seat SSS. Good idea. Just build a grandstand from the right field foul line to the left field wall..simple.


Cooper stadium is already spoken for. Its going to be developed into a multipurpose stadium /automotive technology center that will have a school and will be able to host classic car/sports car races,x-games,motocross and will also have a hotel and restaraunts on the property. Its being developed by an investment group including jeff gordon and will be similar to a complex in north carolina.


----------



## Otto Racecar

As far as the crew goes it's interesting to see what some people consider lack of support after one poorly attended season in which almost all of the crews heroes were dumped unceremoniously prior to the start of the season.I did a little research and found out the crew have a alltime average attendance of 16,334. Compare that to some of the other original teams or teams that have some history. FC Dallas:10,581, Chicago:15,581, Colorado:15,596, New York:14,621,Kansas City:10,153,Salt Lake:16,660, San Jose: 12,752 Houston:17,301 LA Galaxy is much higher,I couldn't find any accurate DC United info and seattle,portland, vancouver,and philly are all way too new to get any sort of accurate representation of how they will be 16 years later. I hope they will be great but I don't remember anyone trying to kick out the red bulls in 2009 when they averaged 12,000. 

Its also a joke when people attempt to use crew stadium as a reason to kick out the team. Has anyone noticed that san jose plays in a 10,000 seat college stadium still,dc plays in a dilapidated old baseball stadium and the revs play in an empty NFL stadium. For god sakes, kc played in a minor league baseball stadium and houston played in a college football stadium up until this year. Without the crew spending their own money for their erector set, who knows how long it would have been before other teams had the confidence to construct their own. Keep in mind, up until recently most of the stadiums that were built after were only slight upgrades to crew stadium and your kidding yourself if you think otherwise. That being said the location sucks and the crew and their fans know it and thats why they are starting to talk about building a new stadium .

Columbus isn't going anywhere and I would think a fan of a team in thats only been in the league 5 years, has a best finish of 11th,finished 16th last year, and is in a metro area of five and a half million and only averages 20,000 or a fan of a team in a metro of over 9 and a half million that averaged 14,500 last year(lower then crews 07-10 avg.)might not be the best suited to pass judgement on who shouldn't be in the league.


----------



## Commandant

Otto Racecar said:


> Cooper stadium is already spoken for. Its going to be developed into a multipurpose stadium /automotive technology center that will have a school and will be able to host classic car/sports car races,x-games,motocross and will also have a hotel and restaraunts on the property. Its being developed by an investment group including jeff gordon and will be similar to a complex in north carolina.


That's a shame; would've loved to have seen the ballpark live on a few more years...


----------



## Darloeye

It would of been a great soccer stadium

Also to follow on from bd popeye I also like Commandant's avatar just never knew what it was before


----------



## Otto Racecar

Commandant said:


> That's a shame; would've loved to have seen the ballpark live on a few more years...


As would I, although it really would be more of the same as far as location. It would be closer to downtown but a new stadium really needs to be in the arena district,brewery district or downtown to maximize the location and create the environment surrounding the stadium that is important.

Heres a video of the new cooper park if you are interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYA-uhr6WQQ


----------



## slipperydog

Sporting KC fans watch the games at the stadium club even when their team is not in town. The home opener is next Saturday.


----------



## MS20

Still can't believe something like that could happen in Kansas bloody City.


----------



## carnifex2005

MS20 said:


> Still can't believe something like that could happen in Kansas bloody City.


Amazing what happens when you have dedicated ownership. The Hunts were good for keeping MLS alive but the day they stepped aside from Kansas City turned that franchise around. The day they step aside from Columbus and Dallas will probably also help those franchises out as well.


----------



## slipperydog

DC United is focusing on Buzzard Point for their new stadium










http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...or-dc-united/2012/03/08/gIQAsFvL5R_story.html


----------



## Kazurro

JYDA said:


> Here in Canada the Vancouver vs Montreal opener on saturday drew a strong television rating of 541,000 viewers with 288,000 on english language TSN and 253,000 on french language RDS. To put it in perspective, EPL and champions league usually get 100 to 150k.


Is more popular soccer in Canada than in USA?


----------



## vitaming

> Boston Rovers sounds good.


Ace. Can hear the Wild Rover echoing around a Boston sss as i type.


----------



## GunnerJacket

master_klon said:


> It would be nice if Garber could take his focus off a 20th team until DC United and NE Revolution finalise their SSS locations.


The neglect shown to DC is almost criminal. Anyone doubting that in a proper home their fanbase wouldn't match and likely exceed the support shown in Philly and Toronto is out of touch, IMO, and it would behoove the league to support to no end the effort to give their first storied franchise a fitting home venue.


----------



## slipperydog

DC getting a stadium really isn't a league issue, it's a city council issue.


----------



## master_klon

58 days left until the stadium opener


----------



## master_klon

Update on the BBVA Compass stadium


























































































































































http://www.houstonpress.com/slideshow/sneak-peek-inside-the-new-dynamo-stadium-36363371/#1


----------



## carnifex2005

Kazurro said:


> Is more popular soccer in Canada than in USA?


Yes. That being said, there are far more major sports in the US as competition.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Is the rest of the exterior screen going to be orange, or just left grey?


----------



## kevsy21

^^^Great update pics^^^ Thanks for sharing.


----------



## JJG

GunnerJacket said:


> Is the rest of the exterior screen going to be orange, or just left grey?


Just grey.


----------



## GunnerJacket

JJG said:


> Just grey.


Boooo! That's too utilitarian given the result in context. Too industrial. Needs some more pinache, I feel. Maybe over time they'll add color at least to some, to break up the monotony of the view. It's not horrible, but it's certainly less exciting than if they added more color or other elements.

For my taste, anyway.


----------



## carnifex2005

GunnerJacket said:


> Boooo! That's too utilitarian given the result in context. Too industrial. Needs some more pinache, I feel. Maybe over time they'll add color at least to some, to break up the monotony of the view. It's not horrible, but it's certainly less exciting than if they added more color or other elements.
> 
> For my taste, anyway.


It actually lights up like BC Place with special lighting at night.

Speaking of night, here's a night shot of the stadium. Looks good...


----------



## JJG

Yeah, it should light up at night just like BC and MetLife, but for the day, it'll just be grey.


----------



## Maty Imperial

good dressing room


----------



## slipperydog

Photo essay from the Oregonian of POR-PHI

http://photos.oregonlive.com/photo-essay/2012/03/timbers_defeat_union_in_soakin.html


----------



## slipperydog

*Chivas' HDC reconfiguration augers future new stadium*

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...hdc-reconfiguration-augers-future-new-stadium


----------



## vanbasten88

slipperydog said:


> *Chivas' HDC reconfiguration augers future new stadium*
> 
> http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...hdc-reconfiguration-augers-future-new-stadium


Anybody with pictures of HDC in Chivas mode? :cheers:


----------



## Kazurro

carnifex2005 said:


> Yes. That being said, there are far more major sports in the US as competition.


And how many teams are profitable in MLS right know?


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> *Chivas' HDC reconfiguration augers future new stadium*
> 
> http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...hdc-reconfiguration-augers-future-new-stadium


Interesting. And of course many of the posts beneath the story feature the obligatory "Chivas should move" argument, so one wonders if they might actually consider that depending on their fates regarding the search for a new home in LA. Would be interesting to see, however, if the parent club helps poor money into a stadium, though, and fosters the creation of another truly nice and unique soccer stadium for the league.

I'd be more interested in seeing if they draw close to 18k this season and show they could actually sustain that level of support. If they do then I guess we could hardly call them a failure. Still, as a fan of MLS I can't help but shudder at the prospect of either of the league's two "foreign franchise" clubs really succeeding, as it makes the league appear all the more third tier.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Kazurro said:


> And how many teams are profitable in MLS right know?


Data from last year hasn't been released (that I could easily find, anyway), but the projection leading into the 2011 season was that half the clubs would turn a profit. Largely the ones you'd expect due to higher attendance (Seattle, LA), successful merchandising, etc. Even then the profit margins remain quite humble (say, < 7%). I'm sure whatever profit is coming in is surely being reinvested in the clubs either through savings, advance debt payments or other promotions, since the league still needs to guarantee continuing increases in revenues and most clubs cannot bank on their gameday receipts just yet.

Also, in Garber's State of the League address before last year's MLS Cup Final, he did mention something to the effect that with the new TV contracts and venues coming on line that every team could be profitable by about 2018. The trick will be helping teams with smaller attendances either grow those averages and/or balance increasing payroll costs as the league steadily raises the salary cap. Let's be honest, places like Columbus don't have the marketing potential that LA or NYC have.


----------



## rantanamo

Good to see soccer has come so far in the US. Can we haz a top quality rugby league too?


----------



## slipperydog

vanbasten88 said:


> Anybody with pictures of HDC in Chivas mode? :cheers:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6-yVMizjpfg#t=45s


----------



## JYDA

The dirty little secret of MLS financials that the owners and Don Garber don't want the players to know is that Soccer United Marketing (SUM), the promotion company owned and operated by MLS is EXTREMELY profitable. All the rumblings I've heard through the grapevine is that each owner gets an annual income out of SUM in the range of 10 to 15 million. The rapid escalation of expansion fees has not been all down to the growth of MLS like most have been led to believe. Although that is definitely part of it, the equity valuation of SUM has been the real driver. 

However, MLS and SUM are technically seperate entities so when it comes to collective bargaining the owners are able to cry poor by pointing purely to the MLS side of things.


----------



## master_klon

vanbasten88 said:


> Anybody with pictures of HDC in Chivas mode? :cheers:












Its a shame they can't even sell out the 18000 seats. Worst expansion, hope they move to San Diego.


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^Recorded attendance was ~14400. About the same that they averaged last year and the same that Colorado averaged in an ~18,000 seat stadium.

Would still 2nd the move to San Diego tho.


----------



## will101

rantanamo said:


> Good to see soccer has come so far in the US. Can we haz a top quality rugby league too?


I don't see that happening. There are millions of kids in youth soccer leagues, but almost nobody plays rugby here.


----------



## GunnerJacket

JYDA said:


> The dirty little secret of MLS financials that the owners and Don Garber don't want the players to know is that Soccer United Marketing (SUM), the promotion company owned and operated by MLS is EXTREMELY profitable. ...


Not saying you're wrong but I find this hard to believe. When the Player's Union brought up legal challenges a few years ago it ensured that the records for MLS and SUM were open and clear, and given the relative budgets for MLS clubs that's a large chunk of money to be redirected from MLS operations of any kind. Especially given the volume of teams in the league now. 

Now if that was a one time thing from a communications deal or something I would believe it, but I haven't found anything yet on the web to support this claim.


----------



## master_klon

rantanamo said:


> Good to see soccer has come so far in the US. Can we haz a top quality rugby league too?


Off-topic but: Priority would be to get USA to join the Rugby Championship (formerly called the Tri Nations, before Argentina joined). Playing against the the best national teams in the world every year would be good for the USA national rugby team. This would be a good way to get people interested in rugby, which is what you need first.


----------



## krudmonk

master_klon said:


> Its a shame they can't even sell out the 18000 seats. Worst expansion, hope they move to San Diego.


I wouldn't mind them having their own 18K stadium somewhere else in the Southland. They can be a fine second team in a big city, just like we see in soccer elsewhere and other sports here. They do need a rebrand, though.


master_klon said:


> Off-topic but: Priority would be to get USA to join the Rugby Championship (formerly called the Tri Nations, before Argentina joined). Playing against the the best national teams in the world every year would be good for the USA national rugby team. This would be a good way to get people interested in rugby, which is what you need first.


Heh, do you assume most Americans mean rugby union when they say "rugby league?"


----------



## master_klon

krudmonk said:


> Heh, do you assume most Americans mean rugby union when they say "rugby league?"


Read the question. He said 'Can we have a top quality rugby league too?' The question would only make sense if he's talking about rugby (union).


----------



## BOSDAN

Rugby will have a much tougher time gaining popularity in the U.S. American football is similar and it's our most popular sport by a wide margin. Also, rugby is not popular in Latin America. Which means the Hispanics here will not take to it so easily.


----------



## MS20

Kazurro said:


> And how many teams are profitable in MLS right know?


Probably more than in your native la liga. 



JYDA said:


> The dirty little secret of MLS financials that the owners....


Wages have to stay down for some time yet. Its the one thing that continues to hurt nhl and nba even as their revenues soar. 

Minimum wages shoulg go up sure, but DP does its job imo. I dont like the idea of the PA having any leverage until the leagues revenue really take a turn. 



will101 said:


> I don't see that happening. There are millions of kids in youth soccer leagues, but almost nobody plays rugby here.


Soccer has done the hard yards over 2 decades with a gargantuan player base. It is almost mission impossible trying to set up a foreign sport in the US, not helped by rugby/rugby leagues small participation rates. 

Rugby may be a popular sport one day in thr US, but it doesnt look like it anytime soon. 



master_klon said:


> Off-topic but: Priority would be to get USA to join the Rugby Championship (formerly called the Tri Nations, before Argentina joined). Playing against the the best national teams in the world every year would be good for the USA national rugby team. This would be a good way to get people interested in rugby, which is what you need first.


Yeah, the national team would need to spearhead interest, much in the same way the USMNT does in soccer. But the distances already involved in RC with argies and south africa are massive, adding US would just exacerbate the issue. 

The other thing is that a big national game doesnt translate to club game in rugby. Even the home of rugby - england - only manages a smallish club game despite a very popular national team.


----------



## ryebreadraz

GunnerJacket said:


> Not saying you're wrong but I find this hard to believe. When the Player's Union brought up legal challenges a few years ago it ensured that the records for MLS and SUM were open and clear, and given the relative budgets for MLS clubs that's a large chunk of money to be redirected from MLS operations of any kind. Especially given the volume of teams in the league now.
> 
> Now if that was a one time thing from a communications deal or something I would believe it, but I haven't found anything yet on the web to support this claim.


25% of SUM was recently sold to an equity firm for a reported $125-150m. I don't know how much the owners/MLS make each year off of it, but SUM is clearly worth a lot.


----------



## SIC

BoulderGrad said:


> ^^Recorded attendance was ~14400. About the same that they averaged last year and the same that Colorado averaged in an ~18,000 seat stadium.
> 
> Would still 2nd the move to San Diego tho.


If San Diego can get 20k+ everygame why not? Is that not better for the league overall?

Also, if Chivas had been called something like LA aztecs it would draw better. No Club America fan or Cruz Azul, Pumas, Santos, Monterrey and etc fan living in LA is going to become fans of them. Especially when the Galaxy play in the same stadium.

Only Chivas fans and cheapskates go to Chivas games it seems.
Plus they say they had 14k but how many of those tickets did they give away?


----------



## carnifex2005

SIC said:


> If San Diego can get 20k+ everygame why not? Is that not better for the league overall?
> 
> Also, if Chivas had been called something like LA aztecs it would draw better. No Club America fan or Cruz Azul, Pumas, Santos, Monterrey and etc fan living in LA is going to become fans of them. Especially when the Galaxy play in the same stadium.
> 
> Only Chivas fans and cheapskates go to Chivas games it seems.
> Plus they say they had 14k but how many of those tickets did they give away?


I posted this earlier in this thread...


Chivas looking at own stadium for 2013.

Chivas is looking into moving to the Coliseum for the 2013 season according to the Spanish report above. English version.

This move may make sense as well if this report I posted over a year ago is accurate.

Moving to that location with a SSS and a slight rebrand (they can just call themselves Chivas Los Angeles) would be a better bet than going to San Diego and starting from scratch while trying to compete with Xolos.


----------



## SJAnfield

carnifex2005 said:


> I posted this earlier in this thread...
> 
> 
> Chivas looking at own stadium for 2013.
> 
> Chivas is looking into moving to the Coliseum for the 2013 season according to the Spanish report above. English version.
> 
> This move may make sense as well if this report I posted over a year ago is accurate.
> 
> Moving to that location with a SSS and a slight rebrand (they can just call themselves Chivas Los Angeles) would be a better bet than going to San Diego and starting from scratch while trying to compete with Xolos.


So, moving to a bigger stadium is going to help th club? The coliseum is going to make their lack of attendance look even worse


----------



## BoulderGrad

SJAnfield said:


> So, moving to a bigger stadium is going to help th club? The coliseum is going to make their lack of attendance look even worse


It would not be to the coliseum itself. They had a plan to build an SSS on the grounds of the Coliseum in place of the arena that's currently there:

http://www.insidesocal.com/soccer/2010/12/-in-todays-column-in.html

Edit: Well... the previously posted article seems to sound like actually moving to the coliseum. But the one I linked talks about building an SSS on the grounds.


----------



## crazydude

rantanamo said:


> Good to see soccer has come so far in the US. Can we haz a top quality rugby league too?


I can only say well done to this league. Since 1996 the USA went from nothing in terms of club football, to a stable league with good stadiums and teams with decent support and high values.

If I compare it to what has happened to South African club since the inception of the PSL in 1996-97, I could only cry.

Well done MLS, and keep it up.


----------



## SIC

rantanamo said:


> Good to see soccer has come so far in the US. Can we haz a top quality rugby league too?


Well at least they have the stadiums to use now. MLS stadiums would make great venues for rugby and I know they've been used by rugby teams a few times. I mean, why not? It sounds less crazy than a full fledged professional soccer league did 20 years ago.


----------



## nyrmetros

rantanamo said:


> Good to see soccer has come so far in the US. Can we haz a top quality rugby league too?


I would love to have one.


----------



## hubemx

bd popeye said:


> I lived in San Diego for 26 years. 1977-2004.
> 
> 
> 
> Qualcomm is indeed old. 45 years old in fact. that is old for a pro sports stadium in the US. OLD.....!
> 
> The zoo? I can imagine the traffic congestion on 163 and I-5 on game day.Jeez.. Not sure if that's a good idea.
> 
> JYDA, where in San Diego would that stadium be built??


What about the Qualcomm stadium parking lot?


----------



## carnifex2005

Cool time lapse Vimeo video of the Portland Timbers home opener.


----------



## will101

hubemx said:


> What about the Qualcomm stadium parking lot?


The Chargers keep mentioning an area a bit southeast of Petco Field, but the trolley people are not happy with that choice.


----------



## Welkin

carnifex2005 said:


> Cool time lapse Vimeo video of the Portland Timbers home opener.


That was neat. Thanks.


----------



## Darloeye

carnifex2005 said:


> Cool time lapse Vimeo video of the Portland Timbers home opener.


:cheers: Great little video


----------



## bd popeye

hubemx said:


> What about the Qualcomm stadium parking lot?


Could be..but the Bolts wanted to build their as of yet(not a shovel full of dirt has been dug up) new stadium there. Look like now the Bolts *MAY* get a site downtown near Petco Park.

The "Q" is old but still it could be a temporary home for an MLS team until an SSS could be built.


----------



## mattec

bd popeye said:


> Could be..but the Bolts wanted to build their as of yet(not a shovel full of dirt has been dug up) new stadium there. Look like now the Bolts *MAY* get a site downtown near Petco Park.
> 
> The "Q" is old but still it could be a temporary home for an MLS team until an SSS could be built.


I think MLS is to a point where they can be picky about who to add. They don't really need another team out west, and if there isn't a SSS ready for the first season, then they can simply move along to another candidate.


----------



## 1772

So I heard MLS Spring Training is becoming a big hit in Tuscon since MLB is moving to Phoenix. 

Do you guys think we'll have a Cactus and a Grapefruit League in a couple of years? 
Where the eastern clubs will train and play exhibition games in Florida and the western clubs will do the same in Arizona, like the baseball clubs are doing? 

It's pretty cool if they would, especially since MLS spring training is a month before MLB, so there wont be any "clash of attention". 

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2011/12/08/four-mls-teams-compete-tucson-desert-diamond-cup

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/25/sports/la-sp-baxter-soccer-20120226


----------



## soup or man

Which also brings up the issue of could the MLS work in the desert southwest. It would be tricky to build a SSS in the desert but it could be interesting.


----------



## GunnerJacket

1772 said:


> Do you guys think we'll have a Cactus and a Grapefruit League in a couple of years?
> Where the eastern clubs will train and play exhibition games in Florida and the western clubs will do the same in Arizona, like the baseball clubs are doing?


It seems inevitable given the season's timeframe and the need for teams from colder markets to get in some quality practice. And I definitely like the idea of helping these players get in more training year round. The US will only get better as we produce a deeper field of full-time soccer players, so anything that moves us in that direction is a positive.

I can remember getting a program for the Atlanta Attack indoor team in the early 90's, and in the player bios it included what they were doing for second jobs. Tough to be a strong national team when the bulk of your talent is also working for UPS to make ends meet.


----------



## carnifex2005

1772 said:


> So I heard MLS Spring Training is becoming a big hit in Tuscon since MLB is moving to Phoenix.
> 
> Do you guys think we'll have a Cactus and a Grapefruit League in a couple of years?
> Where the eastern clubs will train and play exhibition games in Florida and the western clubs will do the same in Arizona, like the baseball clubs are doing?
> 
> It's pretty cool if they would, especially since MLS spring training is a month before MLB, so there wont be any "clash of attention".
> 
> http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2011/12/08/four-mls-teams-compete-tucson-desert-diamond-cup
> 
> http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/25/sports/la-sp-baxter-soccer-20120226


It's not only MLS teams that use those facilities. Here's a story about Roma signing a six year agreement with Disney to use the facilities there during the Italian winter break.


----------



## 1772

carnifex2005 said:


> It's not only MLS teams that use those facilities. Here's a story about Roma signing a six year agreement with Disney to use the facilities there during the Italian winter break.


Yepp, heard about that. 
It would be pretty awesome if the top italian and german clubs train and have a mini tournament in Orlando/Miami around new years.


----------



## GunnerJacket

1772 said:


> Yepp, heard about that.
> It would be pretty awesome if the top italian and german clubs train and have a mini tournament in Orlando/Miami around new years.


Especially if the German clubs wipe the pitch with the Italians.  



:cheers:


----------



## master_klon

BBVA Compass Stadium


----------



## WesTexas

Is that a screen and plaza on the outside so you can watch the game if not in the stadium?


----------



## 1772

GunnerJacket said:


> Especially if the German clubs wipe the pitch with the Italians.
> 
> 
> 
> :cheers:


Yeah, like they did in the Champions League final in 2010... Oh wait, my bad, it was the other way around... :lol:

Forza Calcio!


----------



## BOSDAN

The new Houston stadium looks nice. I wonder why in the ends, the sections are not large sections and why they have breaks and gaps?


----------



## JJG

BOSDAN said:


> The new Houston stadium looks nice. I wonder why in the ends, the sections are not large sections and why they have breaks and gaps?


It's American.... enough said.


----------



## master_klon

BOSDAN said:


> The new Houston stadium looks nice. I wonder why in the ends, the sections are not large sections and why they have breaks and gaps?


Only one end has a gap for a concert stage, but it will be filled with two blocks of removable seating with a players tunnel in the center. Check the virtual venue if you don't understand me. (http://www.bbvacompassstadium.com/virtual-venue)










Managed to find this sweet picture of the Dynamo locker room. If I was a player I would probably wear slippers inside. :lol:


----------



## MS20

Love that carpet


----------



## jadrianherna

^^ i don't think it would help me relax though :lol:


----------



## will101

It looks like a negative image of a Jackson Pollock.


----------



## vanbasten88

MS20 said:


> Love that carpet


I think its traditionally American to have carpeted change rooms with a huge logo in the middle and woe betide anybody who steps on that logo. Contrast with the change rooms at Arsenal's old ground, Highbury shown below in Jan 2006. Granted the new stadium might have improved things, but it seems a curiously American thing to build locker rooms for pro athletes that are palatial rather than just functional


----------



## JYDA

vanbasten88 said:


> I think its traditionally American to have carpeted change rooms with a huge logo in the middle and woe betide anybody who steps on that logo. Contrast with the change rooms at Arsenal's old ground, Highbury shown below in Jan 2006. Granted the new stadium might have improved things, but it seems a curiously American thing to build locker rooms for pro athletes that are palatial rather than just functional



It's got nothing on the Star Wars dressing room that AC Milan has


----------



## vanbasten88

Holy crap, I've never seen that before...Amazing from the rossoneri. Apparently their sports science facilities are some of the best in the world! Used to be so much money in Italian football. Thanks for posting that:cheers:


----------



## master_klon

The best locker room in America will still be Sporting Kansas City










Some might recognise that it was modelled after Arsenal's current locker room, though obviously with changes to suit the demands of American sports. :lol:


----------



## mattec

master_klon said:


> The best locker room in American *soccer* will still be Sporting Kansas City


fify


----------



## vanbasten88

mattec said:


> fify


I almost dread to ask at the risk of derailing this soccer thread, but how much more ornate are the locker rooms of the more moneied up pro sports in the USA?


----------



## MS20

mattec said:


> fify


I think that was implied, but the trolls cant resist. I guess I could troll the american pointyball overseas stadium thread... Oh wait, i cant. They dont exist. :lol:


----------



## WesTexas

vanbasten88 said:


> I almost dread to ask at the risk of derailing this soccer thread, but how much more ornate are the locker rooms of the more moneied up pro sports in the USA?


i think there is a thread for it that shows them. Big Division 1 football locker rooms in the USA are pretty over the top for recruiting.


----------



## master_klon

mattec said:


> fify


What an a**. Read the title of the thread before you chuck your little comments in.


----------



## JJG

master_klon said:


> What an a**. Read the title of the thread before you chuck your little comments in.


Well he did.... and some of us don't know if that's implied or not. When you say _"best locker room in America"_ with nothing else on the end of that, it's kinda hard to pick up on whether you mean American soccer or just America in general. 

I don't think it was meant to be a smart ass comment, but it's just hard to tell.


----------



## WesTexas

I agree with JJG. I read it as "Best in America! (All sports included)"


----------



## Darloeye

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/new...chester-United-to-New-York-article885127.html


----------



## master_klon

Darloeye said:


> http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/new...chester-United-to-New-York-article885127.html


April Fools :lol:


----------



## Enio125

JYDA said:


> It's got nothing on the Star Wars dressing room that AC Milan has


Why are Italians so obsessed with sports cars? :?


----------



## vanbasten88

Enio125 said:


> Why are Italians so obsessed with sports cars? :?


When you build them like they do, how could you not get obsessed about them? :cheers:


----------



## master_klon

Opening match on June 16 is only three months away. Video shows that the roof is being constructed on the extended south grandstand, but the corners and west grandstand are still only foundations. :nuts:







Shaping up nicely outside the BBVA Compass Stadium. Installation of seats has gone quickly too, now finishing the stage end upper tier.











This picture should give an idea on the landscaping around the stadium.


----------



## JJG

master_klon said:


> Opening match on June 16 is only three months away. Video shows that the roof is being constructed on the extended south grandstand, but the corners and west grandstand are still only foundations. :nuts:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shaping up nicely outside the BBVA Compass Stadium. Installation of seats has gone quickly too, now finishing the stage end upper tier.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This picture should give an idea on the landscaping around the stadium.


I'll be even happier when the neighborhood around BBVA is fixed up. 

It has its nice spots, but you also see this...














































It's not HORRIBLE and at least 1/4 of it is fixed up, but having a stadium of that quality should have some better surroundings.


----------



## Benn

It probably will, these sort of projects inevitably bring in some associated businesses, which would hopefully drive further commercial and then residential growth, but it does take time.


----------



## JJG

Benn said:


> It probably will, these sort of projects inevitably bring in some associated businesses, which would hopefully drive further commercial and then residential growth, but it does take time.


There are already plans in place. There are also some nice new appartments and development there. Just not in most of the area.


----------



## 1772

Enio125 said:


> Why are Italians so obsessed with sports cars? :?


If you refer to the seats, almost all top stadiums in Europe have them. 
The sport seat maker usually sponsors the clubs.


----------



## mattec

master_klon said:


> What an a**. Read the title of the thread before you chuck your little comments in.


jeez, I've made plenty of contributions to this thread. 

The poster's comment was vague and I interpreted it to mean all.


----------



## :ohno:

master_klon said:


>


Very nice!


----------



## carnifex2005

From the Portland match on the weekend, nice workaround to the no flares in MLS stadiums rule...


----------



## koolio

LOL damn ... those Timber fans are nuts. I definitely wanna go to one of their games sometime this summer.


----------



## isaidso

carnifex2005 said:


> Yes. 58,912, record for a soccer match in Montreal (beat the old record held by the Montreal Manic of the old NASL by 700 fans).


Um, no! The soccer attendance record for Montreal was set in 1976 when 72,000 watched East Germany beat Poland. It remains to this day the largest attendance for a sporting event in Canada.


----------



## TexasBoi

JJG said:


> There are already plans in place. There are also some nice new appartments and development there. Just not in most of the area.


I think they will go ahead with the plans they have for that area. There is full cooperation to development East Downtown (I refuse to call it EaDo). BTW, BBVA is turning out to be a sharp looking stadium.


----------



## mgk920

vanbasten88 said:


> I almost dread to ask at the risk of derailing this soccer thread, but how much more ornate are the locker rooms of the more moneied up pro sports in the USA?


NFL's Green Bay Packers:






Definitely not as ornate as the one for Sporting Kansas City, but pretty nice.

Mike


----------



## mgk920

Benn said:


> It probably will, these sort of projects inevitably bring in some associated businesses, which would hopefully drive further commercial and then residential growth, but it does take time.


Agreed, this is being built at the edge of downtown Houston and is at a 'frontier' of the renewal of that part of the city.

Bing 'Bird's Eye' view of the site:
http://binged.it/HNCZaj

The site is the six-block vacant area in the center of the image. Also, two other major sports venues are a few blocks away, across the freeway/motorway - Minute Maid Park (National League, soon to be American League Astros) and the Toyota Center (NBA Rockets). The black area next to the site is parking for it and Minute Maid Park.

Mike


----------



## Neda Say

carnifex2005 said:


> From the Portland match on the weekend, nice workaround to the no flares in MLS stadiums rule...


Wow these people are having fun! Nobody said you couldn't have flares on top of nearby buildings right! this was genius! I'm not to sure the super of the said building will not lock the rooftop access next time!


----------



## Cjones2451

yure323 said:


> http://www.cityofboston.gov/news/default.aspx?ID=3225
> _Boston is honored and proud to be recruited by Major League Soccer to be the potential home for the New England Revolution,” said Mayor Thomas M. Menino. “This is a fantastic opportunity for our city and our neighborhoods, but it will require a throughout exploration of possible sites – we need to make sure this works for Boston residents.” _
> Do you think there's any chance to get past NIMBY's in Boston ?


 
This thread was started almost 6 years go and the Revs are no closer to having a SSS to call home, very sad
How many SSS have been planned and built in this time?


----------



## Welkin

Cjones2451 said:


> This thread was started almost 6 years go and the Revs are no closer to having a SSS to call home, very sad
> How many SSS have been planned and built in this time?


It is interesting that you brought up that first post since we all see it first when when log on to this site. It is a shame that the great soccer fans of greater Boston still don't have a decent soccer venue. I don't expect Kraft to build as nice a venue as Sporting, but I thought he would at least by now have built something as nice as the new stadium in Houston. Maybe it is the lack of open land in Boston and the price of real estate. I remember reading about when Portland, Oregon was looking to build a new downtown MLB baseball stadium and there was no open, vacant land. Every downtown site proposal involved the tearing down of the existing structure. The purchase price for the preferred site (part of which was owned by the Public School system) was well over $60 million just for the real estate alone. Does Boston lack a decent, affordable site near town big enough for the development of a new soccer stadium?


----------



## eMKay

I think the Buffalo Sabres are the current standard bearer for ornate locker rooms. Yes, that crest in the floor is backlit.


----------



## eMKay

master_klon said:


> Opening match on June 16 is only three months away. Video shows that the roof is being constructed on the extended south grandstand, but the corners and west grandstand are still only foundations. :nuts:
> 
> Shaping up nicely outside the BBVA Compass Stadium. Installation of seats has gone quickly too, now finishing the stage end upper tier.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is one of those rare cases where the finished product is better than the renders, it's just beautiful.


----------



## Topher51

eMKay said:


> I think the Buffalo Sabres are the current standard bearer for ornate locker rooms. Yes, that crest in the floor is backlit.


That is incredible! The Penguins locker room is similar, but I'd still give the nod to Buffalo.


----------



## carnifex2005

eMKay said:


> I think the Buffalo Sabres are the current standard bearer for ornate locker rooms. Yes, that crest in the floor is backlit.


That is a sweet locker room. This really needs to be it's own thread.


----------



## eMKay

I'm pretty sure there are pics in the First Niagara Center thread already.


----------



## carnifex2005

eMKay said:


> I'm pretty sure there are pics in the First Niagara Center thread already.


No, I'm talking about a dedicated locker rooms from around the world thread.


----------



## brewerfan386

Minnesota Twins:









NY Jets:
















credit: shph0001 & Blush Photo

Miami Heat:









Virgina Tech:









Minnesota Gophers:









sorry for derailing this thread even more


----------



## krnboy1009

GunnerJacket said:


> Pretty heady, and pricey, location for MLS. Even if they pulled it off, would it be the best place to lure fans at a sizable scale? I'd hate for them to be trapped at, say, 25k capacity max.


If they can put a team there with a legit name and not corporate name and quick;y build a decent team MLS may have a interest from the New Yorkers.

Red Bulls are a disgrace.


----------



## slipperydog

USC is going to be given control over the Coliseum and likely will include the Sports Arena and parking lots. If this happens, one option is for Chivas to build a soccer stadium that USC could use as well.



> *Coliseum Commission prepares to give USC control of stadium*
> 
> _USC would have the options to operate the Sports Arena, hand it back to the panel if the structure became a burden *or demolish it to build something like a soccer stadium.*_
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-coliseum-20120404,0,2753711,full.story


----------



## BoulderGrad

slipperydog said:


>


Funny you mention it, but this is ACTUALLY what they'll be building the new San Jose stadium out of :-D


----------



## joezierer

hubemx said:


> What about Roosevelt Island? there is metro, a bridge and is close to Manhattan and Broklyn.


I'm not sure Roosevelt Island could fit a stadium on the island. They have a small one but not really an MLS sized monster.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

brewerfan386 said:


> Minnesota Twins:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NY Jets:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> credit: shph0001 & Blush Photo
> 
> Miami Heat:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Virgina Tech:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Minnesota Gophers:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sorry for derailing this thread even more



Whoah, what sport are these for? I don't know any team sport where the lockers would need to accommodate that many players.


----------



## bd popeye

^^
Well now..lets see
1) Minnesota Twins baseball. 25 players plus staff.
2 & 3) New York Jets, National Football League(NFL) 53 players plus staff.
4) Miami Heat, National Basketball Association. 12 players + staff
5) Virgina Tech Hokies, NCAA college football..perhaps 80 players + staff
6) Minnesota Golden Gophers, NCAA college football..perhaps 80 players + staff.

That's how we roll in the USA..sports locker room wise..


----------



## eMKay

carnifex2005 said:


> No, I'm talking about a dedicated locker rooms from around the world thread.


Ah! Yes, brilliant idea.


----------



## slipperydog

Here's a 360 look at the inside of the Olympique Stadium


----------



## master_klon

One of the entrances to BBVA:


----------



## master_klon

Electronic boards installed at BBVA:









West Club wall/roof design:









West Club bar:









Concession stand:


----------



## alexandru.mircea

bd popeye said:


> ^^
> Well now..lets see
> 1) Minnesota Twins baseball. 25 players plus staff.
> 2 & 3) New York Jets, National Football League(NFL) 53 players plus staff.
> 4) Miami Heat, National Basketball Association. 12 players + staff
> 5) Virgina Tech Hokies, NCAA college football..perhaps 80 players + staff
> 6) Minnesota Golden Gophers, NCAA college football..perhaps 80 players + staff.
> 
> That's how we roll in the USA..sports locker room wise..


That's amazing. I had no clue it is possible.


----------



## Darloeye

bd popeye said:


> ^^
> Well now..lets see
> 1) Minnesota Twins baseball. 25 players plus staff.
> 2 & 3) New York Jets, National Football League(NFL) 53 players plus staff.
> 4) Miami Heat, National Basketball Association. 12 players + staff
> 5) Virgina Tech Hokies, NCAA college football..perhaps 80 players + staff
> 6) Minnesota Golden Gophers, NCAA college football..perhaps 80 players + staff.
> 
> That's how we *Sit on it *in the USA..sports locker room wise..


Think thats better. 

Is someone going to start a thead about locker rooms around the world then?

Houstons stadium is looking good.


----------



## JYDA

Darloeye said:


> Is someone going to start a thead about locker rooms around the world then?


There already is one.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=569973


----------



## Darloeye

^^ Thanks. It seems to be a troll bitch fest over on that thread.


----------



## Bobby3

In my experience, publicly funded stadiums have nicer locker rooms than privately funded ones. Though there are exceptions, I generally think it's a case of it being a lot easier to spend someone else's money.

The Panthers have a rather basic one, so do (did?) the Dolphins. The Pats one isn't over the top either. I think those are all private stadiums.


----------



## JJG

Took some photos of my own. 



















Of course, it was the Astros opening day and I gotta say, that's gonna be a damn good connection to Minute Maid when they fix everything up.


----------



## Syndic

master_klon said:


> Aerials of BBVA :drool:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photos courtesy http://www.jimolivephotography.com/


I wonder how much this is going to spur development around there. Is it realistic to expect a lot of development? I'd love for it to lead to some real densification. By that I mean retail and residences, of course. Office buildings don't really excite me.


----------



## jtk1519

bd popeye said:


> ^^
> Well now..lets see
> 1) Minnesota Twins baseball. 25 players plus staff.
> 2 & 3) New York Jets, National Football League(NFL) 53 players plus staff.
> 4) Miami Heat, National Basketball Association. 12 players + staff
> 5) Virgina Tech Hokies, NCAA college football..perhaps 80 players + staff
> 6) Minnesota Golden Gophers, NCAA college football..perhaps 80 players + staff.
> 
> That's how we roll in the USA..sports locker room wise..


College football will have a lot more than that. Most college teams will field 100+ players (85 scholarship players + 15-20 walk-ons). The locker room at Texas A&M has 130 lockers...




























I think Oregon has 125 lockers (at a cost of $26,000 per locker) and is widely considered the nicest in all of college football and probably pro football as well...
































































And in most colleges, the coaches have their own locker room and showers.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Here's an update on that discussion on the pier 40 site in Manhattan where MLS is looking for a stadium:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/07/s...des-pier-40-is-discussed.html?_r=1&ref=soccer

Just as an aside, a new article on the possibility of MLS in Minnesota: http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci...eyd?nstrack=sid:1895402|met:300|cat:0|order:5


----------



## JYDA

Would people please piss off with with the locker room talk already? There's another thread for that which was linked to.


----------



## The Game Is Up

> The stadium at Cary’s WakeMed Soccer Park is a great facility for the RailHawks and the ACC championships, and hosted the men’s or women’s NCAA College Cup for eight straight years. But the NCAA hasn’t been back since 2010, telling the Town of Cary the event outgrew the site. That sparked a $6.1 million expansion, from 7,000 to 10,000 seats, with facility upgrades as well. Still, by MLS standards, it’s suitable only as a temporary home.
> 
> An MLS franchise would need a stadium with at least 18,000 seats, not to mention more luxury suites, more press and multipurpose facilities, more parking and better access from Interstate 40. WakeMed Soccer Park has provisions for a 25,000-seat stadium in its master plan, but a stadium in downtown Raleigh might make more sense. Either way, someone’s going to have to put some money into the project.


http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/04/07/3158550/as-mls-visits-raleigh-only-question.html


----------



## nomarandlee

The Game Is Up said:


> Here's an update on that discussion on the pier 40 site in Manhattan where MLS is looking for a stadium:
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/07/s...des-pier-40-is-discussed.html?_r=1&ref=soccer
> 
> Just as an aside, a new article on the possibility of MLS in Minnesota: http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci...eyd?nstrack=sid:1895402|met:300|cat:0|order:5


That would be awesome to have an MLS along the water on Manhattan.

The article states there is about a half dozen sites they are otherwise considering. Any word on where those are?


----------



## JYDA

Here's a rendering of the Wakemed Soccer Park expansion.

http://www.townofcary.org/Assets/Parks$!2c+Recreation+and+Cultural+Resources+Department/Planning+and+Design/WakeMed+Soccer+Expansion/phase1.pdf


----------



## master_klon

^^ External pictures around the whole stadium as well as some internal ones on http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...5732.331599998700&type=3&l=9a18f6dc71&theater

Other pictures of BBVA on http://latremenda1010.univision.com...stadio-del-dynamo-a-un-mes-de-su-inauguracion


----------



## master_klon

Saputo Stadium (Montreal Impact):


----------



## metros11

While it's good to see some movement in Montreal, what exactly the officially planned opening date for the renovated venue? Seems like they're still quite a ways away.


----------



## Cjones2451

metros11 said:


> While it's good to see some movement in Montreal, what exactly the officially planned opening date for the renovated venue? Seems like they're still quite a ways away.


First Scheduled game is June 16 vs the Sounders


----------



## drewdave

JYDA said:


> Here's a rendering of the Wakemed Soccer Park expansion.
> 
> http://www.townofcary.org/Assets/Parks$!2c+Recreation+and+Cultural+Resources+Department/Planning+and+Design/WakeMed+Soccer+Expansion/phase1.pdf


I live in Raleigh, and the RailHawks would be making a huge mistake expanding WakeMed. It's a nice facility, but it's basically a glorified high school football stadium. The RailHawks need to move to downtown Raleigh to become a serious contender for expansion...and hopefully ditch the RailHawks name. Youth soccer is huge in the Triangle, and the local soccer league is partnered with Chelsea. A few more rumblings about this:

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/soccer/story/10961681/

It seems like Raleigh, Minneapolis, and NY are the prime contenders for MLS expansion. Am I missing anyone?


----------



## carnifex2005

drewdave said:


> I live in Raleigh, and the RailHawks would be making a huge mistake expanding WakeMed. It's a nice facility, but it's basically a glorified high school football stadium. The RailHawks need to move to downtown Raleigh to become a serious contender for expansion...and hopefully ditch the RailHawks name. Youth soccer is huge in the Triangle, and the local soccer league is partnered with Chelsea. A few more rumblings about this:
> 
> http://www.wralsportsfan.com/soccer/story/10961681/
> 
> It seems like Raleigh, Minneapolis, and NY are the prime contenders for MLS expansion. Am I missing anyone?


Orlando and San Antonio. Both are easily ahead of Raleigh and Minneapolis. NY2 is the focus for MLS though.


----------



## Darloeye

What is a RailHawk ?


----------



## ryebreadraz

While I think Carolina is the best market for MLS, right now there isn't an ownership group or a stadium plan and those are the two most important things to getting an expansion team. Traffic does not have the money, and that is assuming MLS can get over the conflict of interest, and even if a WakeMed expansion is deemed sufficient, there are not modern plans or financing plan for it. It's a shame because I think it would be incredibly successful if they got a team in the Triangle.


----------



## KLynch

Looks like Baltimore's effort to build DC United a soccer stadium is pretty far along. They are now studying the cost and putting together a financing plan with the team. 

http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimor...4/baltimore-soccer-stadium-study-funding.html


----------



## master_klon

^^ US$175,000 to conduct a feasibility study :nuts:

Why is the new stadium planned for Baltimore, and not Washington? Seems to me that fans aren't happy if they move http://www.blackandredunited.com/2011/11/1/2531607/dc-united-moving-to-baltimore-soccer-survey


----------



## WesTexas

Because Washington isn't trying hard enough to build one at the moment.

Baltimore United? Bal U!


----------



## drewdave

Darloeye said:


> What is a RailHawk ?


It's a fictitious animal. Hawks are indigenous to the Triangle (well, where aren't they indigenous?), and the city the team is in (Cary) grew because of its train station. The stadium is also really close to the train tracks. When the team was named, I couldn't believe that no one thought of anything better--I think there was a naming contest, and somehow this won. hno: Original? Yes. But it's a silly name.


----------



## KLynch

United is not getting a new stadium in DC unless someone steps up and builds it out of pocket. Real estate is so valuable in DC right now that a stadium and parking would be lot of space for areas that could just become more 400k+ homes. DC wouldnt help out the skins, wiz or caps and only built the Nats a stadium because MLB forced it. RFK is a dump with no skyboxes that costs them a fortune to use. 

Baltimore is hungry for a 3rd team and the location is only about 40 minutes from RFK. Baltimore also has an excellent track record with getting top of the line stadiums built. I see this getting done because the Mayor and Governor badly want it and United has no other options.


----------



## Bobby3

Orlando is probably the best bet (outside of that New York team Garber wants more than anything). They have all their ducks in a row, and a city willing to play ball with them, apparently. They also have an independent owner, which helps.


----------



## master_klon

^^ I hope that they will have the 20th MLS team. The stadium seems to be the big factor, although if they have some plans I'm sure they can play their first few games in the Citrus Bowl.

*Don Garber:* "We've been spending time with [Orlando City owner] Phil Rawlins and have been impressed with what he's been doing with Orlando City. We're impressed and intrigued. We believe this is a market we should pay more attention to and do a little more research. "It could mean that New York comes in and then Orlando comes in later. It could be that Orlando comes in, and New York doesn't happen for a couple of years. It could be that we don't get the stadium situation resolved here in Orlando.''

*OS:* The MLS has contracted teams in Tampa and Fort Lauderdale. How does that factor into Orlando's bid? 
*DG:* "There's been a lot going on in this state that has changed in the past decade. ... There's a lot more of an international flair here in Orlando, certainly with the Brazilian population spending a lot more time and money in this market. The city has done a great job as a minor league capturing the attention of the soccer fan." 

*OS:* Is having a soccer-specific stadium a condition for Orlando to get a team? 
*DG:* "When we look at what is driving success, there are two factors that have been key to that. The first is a downtown location, and the second is a soccer-specific stadium. We believe that for us to succeed here, we are going to need something like that to exist.
"It's way too early for me to comment on what their stadium plan might be because we haven't even begun those discussions. All I can say is that we know what's been working for us.'' 

*OS:* What are Orlando's advantages? 
*DG:* "A very good ownership group, a team that is going to hit the ground running and has attracted a passionate fan base, and certainly an international community.'' 

*OS:* What message should Orlando soccer fans take away from your visit? 
*DG:* "[I was] very impressed with what I saw over the last couple of hours, really appreciate the time with Mayor [Buddy] Dyer and [Orange County] Mayor Teresa Jacobs. A real sense of being impressed with how passionate the fans are. "I hope their take-away is, get bigger, be a stronger supporter of the club so that everyone around MLS is saying, 'How can we not have Orlando in our league?' "

Not so keen on a second New York team, at least until around 2020. Try increase the regular attendance of NY Red Bulls, rather than dilute the support.


----------



## Topher51

I would be bummed if DC United moved to Baltimore, but they really do need a new venue. RFK is pretty run down and while the area around it isn't too bad, it's not nearly as glitzy as the area around Verizon Center or what the have planned for around Nats Park. 

As for New York getting a second team, is it really that inconvienent to take the train to Harrison to watch the Red Bull? I know people who live in a city don't like having to trek to the outskirts of town, but us suburbanites have to take midnight trains home from games and it isn't that bad. I agree, a waterfront stadium would be cool, but one of the nicest stadiums in MLS is already within a reasonable commute of the city. Besides, are there really that many soccer fans in the city that would go to MLS games that aren't already Red Bull fans?


----------



## slipperydog

Topher51 said:


> Besides, are there really that many soccer fans in the city that would go to MLS games that aren't already Red Bull fans?


I think they are hoping to capitalize on the Manhattan celebrity market (i.e. Spike Lee, Jay-Z, etc). And yes there are tons of fans that don't go to Red Bulls games on a regular basis, including foreign-born soccer fans (i.e. Argentina, Ecuador, etc). New Jersey just doesn't do it for most people. By making it a 5-10 minute ride from MSG, it has the potential to attract more people from New York proper on a regular basis. Red Bull does seem to have a difficulty selling out their stadium even with Henry in town, probably because of a) the location, and b) the corporate branding.


----------



## Topher51

slipperydog said:


> I think they are hoping to capitalize on the Manhattan celebrity market (i.e. Spike Lee, Jay-Z, etc). And yes there are tons of fans that don't go to Red Bulls games on a regular basis, including foreign-born soccer fans (i.e. Argentina, Ecuador, etc). New Jersey just doesn't do it for most people. By making it a 5-10 minute ride from MSG, it has the potential to attract more people from New York proper on a regular basis. Red Bull does seem to have a difficulty selling out their stadium even with Henry in town, probably because of a) the location, and b) the corporate branding.


I get that crossing the Hudson is to New Yorkers like going outside the Beltway is to people in DC, but is that stigma really enough to justify giving the NYC area a second MLS team over another city? I know a team in Manhatten would make loads of money, but that would seriously undercut Red Bull. Seems like it would be a dumb move on MLS's part.

As for the name, do people really hate it that much? MetroStars and Cosmos don't seem any better to me. I'd rather my team have Red Bull across their jersey than Bimbo, Quaker or Barbasol.


----------



## krnboy1009

United need to build on in the suburbs then. Alexandria?


----------



## KLynch

United is down to DC or Baltimore, no suburbs. They have quoted they are not interested in the suburbs, and I think the interview with Don Garber about Orlando shows a good reason why. 

You feel bad that some DC United fans will have to travel farther for games, but people in Baltimore have to go to DC for hockey, basketball and the University of Maryland events. The two teams already in Baltimore are money making machines. Whatever way Baltimore gets a team, I hope it happens because I think it will become one of the very good MLS markets. 

Baltimore has an EPL game on 7/28, if that is another super successful euro game in Baltimore, I think the stadium deal gets done pretty quickly after that.


----------



## ryebreadraz

I wouldn't count on Orlando just yet. They have support and a city willing to play ball, but they are missing the most important thing -- money. Phil Rawlins as listed as having a net worth of $60 million and many people are saying that it is really closer to $40 million, neither of which is nearly enough to get a team. There are also concerns about his ethics after the way he left Austin and hung the people there out to dry so people are questioning if he could get the necessary investors to present an ownership group to MLS with enough money to run the club.

Until he/Orlando figures out a way to get a lot more money in the ownership group they don't really have much.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Topher51 said:


> As for the name, do people really hate it that much? MetroStars and Cosmos don't seem any better to me. I'd rather my team have Red Bull across their jersey than Bimbo, Quaker or Barbasol.


It's not about the name but the brand. More specifically, how the Red Bull namesake ursurped the New York identity as _the_ brand behind the club. Instead of appearing something unique, it's just the local franchise of a global chain now that Red Bull is peddling teams in Brazil, Germany, Austria and China. It's about as New York as McDonalds.

MetroStars may have been a rather contrived nickname, but at least the team was striving to be genuine and about the city (er, metro area!). It's one thing to have a company sponsor your team, another to have your team become little more than a mere promotional vehicle for that company's primary interest.


----------



## Topher51

krnboy1009 said:


> United need to build on in the suburbs then. Alexandria?


I work in Alexandria (at least for the next 3 days). It is inside the beltway and only a 15 minute train ride from Metro Center, so it's not really the suburbs as they are generally considered. Some place like Fairfax or Reston fit the bill better. 

But no, even if United wanted to move here, there is not enough room to build a stadium anywhere and land is too expensive anyway. Most stadiums these days are built as part of an urban renewal in a relatively lower value part of town. Real estate here is sky high, even with the recession. 

I am really hoping the Buzzard Point stadium works out. That is a few blocks from Nats Park and that whole side of town has gotten nicer and nicer in the last 10 years. It will be even better once the riverwalk is finished and all the stalled projects in the area get going again.


----------



## Topher51

GunnerJacket said:


> It's not about the name but the brand. More specifically, how the Red Bull namesake ursurped the New York identity as _the_ brand behind the club. Instead of appearing something unique, it's just the local franchise of a global chain now that Red Bull is peddling teams in Brazil, Germany, Austria and China. It's about as New York as McDonalds.
> 
> MetroStars may have been a rather contrived nickname, but at least the team was striving to be genuine and about the city (er, metro area!). It's one thing to have a company sponsor your team, another to have your team become little more than a mere promotional vehicle for that company's primary interest.


Not that I have a dog in this fight at all, but what is the big deal with the New York team being part of a global soccer chain? It's not like Red Bull is anywhere close to the Barca or ManU brand, but it is probably one of the better know American teams across the world. I am sure some of that is b/c the team is in the NYC metro area, but the branding has got something to do with it too. 

As an owner, has Red Bull run the team into the ground, alienated the fan base or something else to sully the reputation of the organization? This sport more than any besides NASCAR is all about corporate sponsorship, so I for one have no problem with the team being named after the company. At least it is a relatively cool sounding name. Coca Cola FC or Pepsi United would be much worse.


----------



## master_klon

I think the corporate name is bad for the New York team, buts whats the plan in bringing a new team into the city. To drive them into the ground, when they have the team, the stadium, and a core of loyal supporters? Better if the league buys everything, brings back the old name and logo, develops the stadium's surrounding area to get some money back, and then sells it to another owner.


----------



## Nexis

They would fill the arena if they named it after Newark or Harrison....the fact that most of the fans come from NY says something. Harrison and Newark are huge Soccer markets , yet most people I know are turned off by the "NY" name. I think this region could support 2 or 3 teams. You just have to appeal to the locals better , don't build an Arena and invite a NY team to play make it a Jersey team. Theres a Big NY-NJ Rivalry that could be tapped into if we had separate teams. As for DC United moving to Baltimore if the name isn't changed to Baltimore United I could see a low turn out by locals.


----------



## krnboy1009

Most people are turned off by Red Bull name. No New Yorkers are gonna support a team with a corporate name. New York fans are very traditional.


----------



## Nexis

krnboy1009 said:


> Most people are turned off by Red Bull name. No New Yorkers are gonna support a team with a corporate name. New York fans are very traditional.


Thats another thing ,slapping a corporate brand on a Team is different then a stadium or arena which is expected these days...


----------



## Welkin

Nexis said:


> Thats another thing ,slapping a corporate brand on a Team is different then a stadium or arena which is expected these days...


Is the MLS headed in the direction of the Japan Baseball League? In the JBL you can root for the Chiba Lotte Marines (Lotte is a candy company and the team is in the Chiba City area of Tokyo) or the Saitama Seibu Lions (Seibu is a conglomerate and the team is in the Saitama area of Tokyo) or the Fukuoka Softbank Hawks (Softbank is a Japanese phone company). At least the MLS does not have the Philadelphia Bimbo Union or the DC Volkswagen United or the Los Angeles Herbalife Galaxy. Maybe having the New York Red Bulls is not so bad after all. It could be a lot worse. At least the corporate name sounds like a sports team nickname.


----------



## GunnerJacket

That the actual name Red Bulls conveniently is masculine enough to work for a sports franchise doesn't change the impact of precedence. Can MLS tell the next company owner they can't do the same if the name doesn't sound cool? Why bother with the city name at all? Amway FC, anyone? Hell, the women's league had a franchise last year called Magicjack!

Think of the bowl games for college football. It's no longer the Peach Bowl or the Citrus Bowl, marquee events to showcase the community, but it's become the Chic-Fil-A Bowl and the Capital One Bowl, promotional events to sell a corporate brand. It's not bad but it is different. 

The point is that pro sports at this level shouldn't need to exist solely as a corporate plaything, especially in modern US culture where we're steadfastly used to the team being about the community first and it's company owners second (or later). If MLS teams are willing to compromise on identity for a little cash now, they're appearing far, far down the ladder compared to their peers in MLB, NBA, etc. And since they're aspiring to be more like those leagues it makes me cringe as a fan every time I see the league do something cut-rate. Chiavs USA? _Real_ Salt Lake? Seriously?

Red Bull New York isn't evil, but it's decidedly cheesy and not even close to being worthy of being couched alongside noble sports brands like the Yankees and Knicks. Thus, even though I was born in New York state and rooted for the MetroStars once the league started up, I hope the RB franchise never wins a trohpy. And that MLS doesn't let this case of identity theft happen again.

One man's opinion.


----------



## bigbossman

Anything on a stadium in the Boston for the Revolution?


----------



## larsul

*New York Cosmos*

Hi guys i have look in the last pages and i haven't found any Info around the New York Cosmos.. 
Any idea where they will play.. Nasl or Mls? or what is their situation?

Have a great day!


----------



## GunnerJacket

larsul said:


> Hi guys i have look in the last pages and i haven't found any Info around the New York Cosmos..


They're a brand looking for an investor and a stadium to call home. Until then they're just a part of US soccer history.


----------



## The Game Is Up

How about Hudson County SC? Unless the RB return to the MetroStars name this is what I would rename it to. We haven't had a team with a name that includes "County", yet. This would really cement the identity to the region the stadium is in.


----------



## Nexis

The Game Is Up said:


> How about Hudson County SC? Unless the RB return to the MetroStars name this is what I would rename it to. We haven't had a team with a name that includes "County", yet. This would really cement the identity to the region the stadium is in.


Thats to cheesy , The Newark Red Bulls would appeal to the large Portuguese and African / Middle Eastern populations in neighboring Newark and Harrison...or the New Jersey Red Bulls......


----------



## master_klon

^^ In London the teams are named after the area they are in e.g. Chelsea, Fulham. Not sure if its the best idea in the US though. 

Essentially, the New York Red Bulls are a club in New York with a stadium just outside the city's limits. The commentator before each home game says, "We are in Harrison, New Jersey" but it stays at that, the New York name is what makes the club attractive and gives it its identity. 

Harsh on the local New Jersey area? Maybe, but the catchment is much larger (both in the larger area-to those in New York- and internationally). Its a team that the city can get behind if the club markets themselves well, or Cosmos will come in and take the gap which will be created in the New York soccer market.


----------



## JJG

master_klon said:


> ^^ In London the teams are named after the area they are in e.g. Chelsea, Fulham. Not sure if its the best idea in the US though.
> 
> Essentially, the New York Red Bulls are a club in New York with a stadium just outside the city's limits. The commentator before each home game says, "We are in Harrison, New Jersey" but it stays at that, the New York name is what makes the club attractive and gives it its identity.
> 
> Harsh on the local New Jersey area? Maybe, but the catchment is much larger (both in the larger area-to those in New York- and internationally). Its a team that the city can get behind if the club markets themselves well, or Cosmos will come in and take the gap which will be created in the New York soccer market.



It's just marketing. There are several sports teams in this country who have stadiums in other towns that claim another that may be more well known.

Cowboys Stadium is a good example, seeing how the team that plays there are the DALLAS Cowboys, yet the stadium is in Arlington, which is in Tarrant County, which is the county seat of Fort Worth. You could call them the Arlington Cowboys, the Fort Worth Cowboys, the Tarrant County Cowboys, even the DFW Cowboys.... but why? A name like that is and always has been associated with the city of Dallas and the city itself is still more marketable than the other three in DFW, so as long as it's within 50 miles, they will _always_ be the Dallas Cowboys.


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## bd popeye

This is off topic but here I go.. What do you association Football fans think of the new Team USA jersey?


----------



## Otto Racecar

bd popeye said:


> This is off topic but here I go.. What do you association Football fans think of the new Team USA jersey?


Honestly, I liked the old one's better. Maybe this reminds me of chivas or something.I know its different striping.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

I like it a lot in itself, even if it's not blue or white as usual.


----------



## carlspannoosh

Decent top. So long as the shorts don't look like this.


----------



## Syndic

I think it's pretty sweet. Better than previous years. 

SIAP, but here's the full local news special on the Dynamo stadium: http://www.click2houston.com/sports...ial/-/1735736/10923524/-/11ig7g7/-/index.html

Can't wait! It's going to be crazy to finally see that stadium full of cheering fans.


----------



## soup or man




----------



## Welkin

Otto Racecar said:


> Honestly, I liked the old one's better. Maybe this reminds me of chivas or something.I know its different striping.


Yuck, they could do so much better. Boring, ugly stripes.


----------



## Darloeye

That photo make it look a bit small. But I do like clubs who play in hoops. So its a Yes from me.


----------



## slipperydog

It's also the flag of the US, so it seems appropriate. That said, I would be very surprised if they kept this look for the 2014 World Cup, they will probably go back to the traditional white tops.


----------



## vitaming

Welkin said:


> Yuck, they could do so much better. Boring, ugly stripes.


Tell you what - a radical change to sell a bunch of jerseys and reversion to a more traditional design just might be in store.


----------



## master_klon

Otto Racecar said:


> Honestly, I liked the old one's better. Maybe this reminds me of chivas or something.I know its different striping.


Do you mean similar to FC Dallas? 

Mixed feelings on the kit, good to get the change though. Is there a tournament soon, why did they release the kits now?


----------



## slipperydog

master_klon said:


> Do you mean similar to FC Dallas?
> 
> Mixed feelings on the kit, good to get the change though. Is there a tournament soon, why did they release the kits now?


This is the shirt for qualifying, which starts in a little over a month.


----------



## fermone04

carlspannoosh said:


> Decent top. So long as the shorts don't look like this.


LMAO!!:lol:


----------



## fermone04

bd popeye said:


> This is off topic but here I go.. What do you association Football fans think of the new Team USA jersey?


I like it!! I'm digging it! I want one.^^


----------



## krnboy1009

Love the new uni. Very good looking. reps US well. 

Could have also worked as a uni for DC united.


----------



## bd popeye

fermone04 said:


> I like it!! I'm digging it! I want one.^^


It's will cost ya' one hundred and fifty bucks ($150 USD)..green American money. plus tax and shipping of course.

http://www.worldsoccershop.com/29648.html

Kinda a steep price in my opinion.


----------



## Darloeye

bd popeye said:


> It's will cost ya' one hundred and fifty bucks ($150 USD)..green American money. plus tax and shipping of course.
> 
> http://www.worldsoccershop.com/29648.html
> 
> Kinda a steep price in my opinion.


£93.62 ! Thats alot of money in anyones book. Why is it so much money ? The new England shirt is $72.12 / £45


----------



## bd popeye

Darloeye said:


> £93.62 ! Thats alot of money in anyones book. Why is it so much money ? The new England shirt is $72.12 / £45


Well ..it's "new" and "trendy".. and the Nike logo(swoosh) adds to the price. Still very pricey.


----------



## Darloeye

bd popeye said:


> Well ..it's "new" and "trendy".. and the Nike logo(swoosh) adds to the price. Still very pricey.


LOL Yeah Its still alot of money for a soccer shirt. How long will the team be wearing it ? Cos the England shirt is only worn by the team for 18 months then another shirt design comes out. Will the USA shirt be in the same time frame can't really see fans spending $150 for a shirt ever 18months tbh


----------



## slipperydog

Darloeye said:


> LOL Yeah Its still alot of money for a soccer shirt. How long will the team be wearing it ? Cos the England shirt is only worn by the team for 18 months then another shirt design comes out. Will the USA shirt be in the same time frame can't really see fans spending $150 for a shirt ever 18months tbh


It will be used 2012-2013. A new shirt will be released for the World Cup.


----------



## Darloeye

So more money for fans to payout. Soccer teams around the world love to rip off fans :no:


----------



## fermone04

slipperydog said:


> It will be used 2012-2013. A new shirt will be released for the World Cup.


It is a lot of doe!! I'm pretty sure after a yr. the price will drop, and if not you can always go to your local swapmet.:lol: 

A new shirt will released for the World Cup, IF!!! they make it, after what happened with the U23,. But I'm pretty sure they will!! I hope so.hno:


----------



## master_klon

USD$150 for the new shirt is too much. Might as well buy the old version, now that the price will drop. In comparison, New Zealand's new Nike kit is USD$97. Wonder who's making the big profit on the US kits?










Just noticed they still have the sash. :doh:


----------



## slipperydog

master_klon said:


> USD$150 for the new shirt is too much. Might as well buy the old version, now that the price will drop. In comparison, New Zealand's new Nike kit is USD$97. Wonder who's making the big profit on the US kits?


Someone has to pay Jurgen Klinsmann's salary.


----------



## Darloeye

slipperydog said:


> Someone has to pay Jurgen Klinsmann's salary.


How much is he on ?


----------



## slipperydog

Darloeye said:


> How much is he on ?


I believe 2-2.5 million US. Also the federation now has multiple scouts traveling all over Europe to view Americans playing club matches every week. If you've traveled across Europe before, you know that can't be cheap. Plus, now that the majority of the national team plays in Europe, flying in all the players across the Atlantic to play matches in North America can also get quite expensive. Something England, Germany, and Spain don't have to deal with.


----------



## Darloeye

thus why the shirts are $150 each.


----------



## Otto Racecar

fermone04 said:


> A new shirt will released for the World Cup, IF!!! they make it, after what happened with the U23,. But I'm pretty sure they will!! I hope so.hno:


Not that this means anything at all but I am very very confident that the mens team will qualify and actually have a good showing. The U23 team was very dissapointing but there were many factors that I believe created the poor performance. All is not lost as far as I'm concerned.:cheers:


----------



## will101

Darloeye said:


> thus why the shirts are $150 each.


And there are morons out there who pay that? I'm in the wrong business.


----------



## MS20

$120-$150 is standard for football tops. 

You could order from overseas for less with the right exchange rates, but thats the going rate locally. 



> And there are morons out there who pay that?


Plenty. Even if you change the kits every year, you'll still sell well.


----------



## master_klon

BBVA Compass Stadium (23 days to go):










Portland Timbers new training center opened today:


----------



## slipperydog

I debated whether this should be posted here as opposed to the locker room thread, but since someone posted pics of the training center above, here is a video tour.


----------



## The Game Is Up

*Don Garber wants MLS to adopt goal-line technology right away*

Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/...line-technology-right-away.html#ixzz1sXXR23bD

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...7qPr-g?docId=c19d8cef23a944b18016c5068d1acb93

It's going to be interesting how that's going to be implemented at the various stadia.

Yet another article about the possibility of a franchise within NYC limits, from the Daily News: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...mes-article-1.1064560?localLinksEnabled=false


----------



## WesTexas

soup or man said:


>


now that is patriotic!


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## slipperydog




----------



## master_klon

Tarps on the pitch and temporary seating by players tunnel has been installed


----------



## master_klon

Pictures taken at the media tour, by Nigel Brooks


----------



## FastFerrari

bd popeye said:


> This is off topic but here I go.. What do you association Football fans think of the new Team USA jersey?


I heard the US soccer team failed to make a spot for the Olympics.


----------



## BoulderGrad

will101 said:


> Apologies if this is a re-post, but it seems to be the most recent news, from February 23:
> 
> The San Jose Planning Commission—with its chambers filled to standing room only, mostly by fans in Earthquakes colors—voted 6-0 Wednesday night to uphold the MLS team’s Planned Development Permit, paving the way for the Earthquakes to break ground on their new soccer-specific stadium.
> 
> “Tonight’s decision … is a milestone not just for the San Jose Earthquakes but all Bay Area soccer fans,” club president Dave Kaval said in a statement. “Our club and its stakeholders have worked hard through this process, and we feel that we have a great plan for our new stadium. Looking ahead, our club will now begin the work of finalizing the stadium design and financing plan. The goal is to put shovels in the ground this year.”
> 
> City planners initially approved the Earthquakes’ development permit Dec. 14, but a member of the Newhall Neighborhood Association appealed the permit Jan. 1.
> 
> [Say what? Everything was closed that day.]
> 
> Among the representatives who spoke during public comment Wednesday on behalf of the club were Kaval, owner Lew Wolff and MLS president Mark Abbott.
> 
> After more than two hours of input from the public as well as the Earthquakes, the commission closed discussion and took action on the appeal, with one commissioner absent for the vote.
> 
> “This night,” Kaval said, “will be remembered as another key moment in our club’s storied history.”
> 
> Wolff reportedly wants to break ground on the stadium this summer and open it next year.
> 
> MLS commissioner Don Garber wasted little time reacting on his Twitter feed, saying the approval marks a “great day for @earthquakes and great day for @MLS.”
> 
> Meantime, Los Angeles Galaxy forward Landon Donovan tweeted: “Great news and deserved after years of uncertainty.”
> 
> *The Earthquakes say they already have sold 10 of 12 available field-level luxury suites for the new stadium, generating more than $3.5 million in revenue for the reported $60 million project.*
> 
> Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/soccer/...kes-mls-stadium-permit-approved#ixzz1t796wWnh


That was the last I had heard too, but nothing since. Groundbreaking? Concrete flowing? Steel rising?


----------



## master_klon

Of course I knew about that American football team using BBVA Compass. Just didn't think it was relevant to the thread, just like chess. Not a fan of the sport, even seeing a picture like the one above makes me cringe. 

I know there's another team that uses Jeld-Wen. Doesn't look good though.


----------



## SJAnfield

BoulderGrad said:


> That was the last I had heard too, but nothing since. Groundbreaking? Concrete flowing? Steel rising?


Remember, we are owned by the same guy who owns the A's. Don't expect rapid results


----------



## master_klon

This was written two months ago, looks like we won't be seeing construction for a while.



> *Drawing up plans will take three or four months*, Kaval said, which means a 2013 opening — long the team’s goal — is still possible. Kaval left the door open for that date to be pushed back, however.
> 
> “It’s hard to say,” Kaval said. “I’m going to have to work directly with our construction team and see the timing of it. We want to make sure that it’s built in an appropriate way, that we get the stadium done and completed, and that also it wouldn’t be a negative for the team, competition-wise. We have to weigh all those factors.”












Not keen that suites are right next to the pitch for the new Earthquakes stadium. It separates the supporters from the players and vice versa, not good in soccer. Houston has planned their suites much better; and it's better for those in the suites as well, to have that elevation above the pitch. What do others think?


----------



## eMKay

master_klon said:


> This was written two months ago, looks like we won't be seeing construction for a while.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not keen that suites are right next to the pitch for the new Earthquakes stadium. It separates the supporters from the players and vice versa, not good in soccer. Houston has planned their suites much better; and it's better for those in the suites as well, to have that elevation above the pitch. What do others think?


They probably did that because it's cheaper, the suites are at the bottom and the fans enter right above. Cheapest possible way. There is no wasted money in this stadium, except for the unnecessary roof. Even that roof though, looks cheap. I don't like the suite placement either, but do like that they are doing this without wasting a lot of money.


----------



## will101

I have no doubt the actual groundbreaking will happen this summer. Wolff is probably waiting for the buzz about the new stadium for the Niners to die down a bit. And gathering up as much cash in advance as possible.

The thing that gets me is they make reference to 12 suites, when the artwork in master klon's post implies many more than that. (There are 18 in the picture, and that's only part of the stadium.) I'm wondering how many other changes are in the works.


----------



## JJG

master_klon said:


> Of course I knew about that American football team using BBVA Compass. Just didn't think it was relevant to the thread, just like chess. Not a fan of the sport,* even seeing a picture like the one above makes me cringe. *


Damn, dude, it's not _that_ serious....

And even though this is about _soccer_ specific stadiums, some of them just so happen to host football games or concerts, or other events. I don't think it's too irrelevent to include those while talking about the stadium featured.


----------



## master_klon

Before (22/02/2011)










After










Webcam shows that the goals are in


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

will101 said:


> I have no doubt the actual groundbreaking will happen this summer. Wolff is probably waiting for the buzz about the new stadium for the Niners to die down a bit. And gathering up as much cash in advance as possible.
> 
> The thing that gets me is they make reference to 12 suites, when the artwork in master klon's post implies many more than that. (There are 18 in the picture, and that's only part of the stadium.) I'm wondering how many other changes are in the works.


That picture is inaccurate. At the goal line the upper deck will extend to field level for supporters. There are 12 suites at field level, but they do not extend across the entire sidelines. There will also be premium seating along the sidelines at field level that anyone can buy. A few additional suites are planned for the upper section near the press box.


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

Here's the preliminary seating design.



By FUAEG http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1830360&page=18
Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## master_klon

^^ Thanks, here's another view of that render.


----------



## BOSDAN

That looks like a solid design. The stands in the closed end right up on the goal and it's a full, solid section. Not broken up like Compass. That should be a tough end for opposing keepers should it be full.


----------



## eMKay

BOSDAN said:


> That looks like a solid design. The stands in the closed end right up on the goal and it's a full, solid section. Not broken up like Compass. That should be a tough end for opposing keepers should it be full.


Yeah that render is much better, I like it a lot. Not so cheap afterall, looks like a smart design.


----------



## carnifex2005

eMKay said:


> They probably did that because it's cheaper, the suites are at the bottom and the fans enter right above. Cheapest possible way. There is no wasted money in this stadium, except for the unnecessary roof. Even that roof though, looks cheap. I don't like the suite placement either, but do like that they are doing this without wasting a lot of money.


Apparently the roof was left there to placate residents because of future noise complaints. Silly, I know. A roof in San Jose probably isn't needed.


----------



## chaparral

Dynamo offer first look at BBVA Compass Stadium 

http://www.khou.com/sports/Dynamo-offer-first-look-at-BBVA-Compass-Stadium-148604125.html


----------



## krnboy1009

carnifex2005 said:


> It's not a silly question. In the agreement with the city to let the Dynamo get the land for the stadium, they have to let Texas Southern University use the stadium for gridiron during their season in the fall. I'm curious how that's going to look in a SSS with low sideline walls.


Thank you. this isnt going to be exclusively soccer stadium. I believe Texas Southern U chipped in some cash in as well.


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## master_klon

carnifex2005 said:


> Apparently the roof was left there to placate residents because of future noise complaints. Silly, I know. A roof in San Jose probably isn't needed.


Why is a roof not needed on the new Earthquakes stadium?


*Montreal VP: Stade Saputo will be ready for June 16 debut*



> Montreal Impact vice president Richard Legendre made it very clear to the local press on Thursday: Newly renovated Stade Saputo will be open for business when the Impact host the Seattle Sounders on June 16.
> 
> “It’s progressing quickly, and we need it to progress quickly,” Legendre told reporters. “More than 50 percent of the work is now done. Stands are popping up fast, and we’ll be going at full blast until June 16. We’re working exclusively on that scenario – that we’re playing on June 16."
> 
> The deadline for the delivery of Stade Saputo 2.0 was extremely tight right from the start. Work could not begin until last fall, as the club had to make a second call for tenders in order to meet budget requirements previously ignored by the first bidders.
> 
> Eyebrows were then raised when a giant slab of concrete fell from the ceiling of an Olympic Park underground parking facility on March 4. Then came a report from a local radio station, which indicated that work would not be completed before Stade Saputo’s opening game against Seattle.
> 
> The club has nevertheless insisted progress was good and the deadline was expected to be met. Personnel are on the construction site every weekday and work overtime on most weekends in order to deliver a fully renovated stadium.
> 
> Should the stadium not be fully completed, says Legendre, the emphasis will lie on the aspects needed to actually play a game and welcome 20,341 fans, namely the grass and the stands.
> 
> Ticket sales for games at the Olympic Stadium lead the Impact VP to believe capacity crowds will be the norm at Stade Saputo.
> 
> “For the Portland game [this Saturday], a little more than 17,000 tickets have been sold,” Legendre said. “In our minds, getting close to 20,000, which is the capacity of Stade Saputo, is reason to be happy.”
> 
> According to Legendre, players and staff can expect to move into Stade Saputo a few days before its official opening, as the required natural grass can only be laid in the later stages of the ground's renovation.


----------



## carnifex2005

master_klon said:


> Why is a roof not needed on the new Earthquakes stadium?
> 
> 
> *Montreal VP: Stade Saputo will be ready for June 16 debut*


During the soccer season, it rarely ever rains. The weather there can get hot but not unbearably so like in the south.


----------



## mgk920

One thought - with all of the ongoing discussion of adding new teams to MLS, what is the likelihood that the league will have to eventually be split into two or more 'promotion/relegation' divisions, perhaps within the next ten to twenty years or so?

BTW, as a lifelong NFL fan (Lambeau Field is only about 50 km from where I live and my family has a long-tenured season ticket subscription with the Packers) and being familiar with the history of how and when that league first got started and ultimately grew big, I am very impressed with how MLS is building its foundation. The only 'Hunh?' that I really have had so far is 'Why did the Chicago Fire build Toyota Park where they did - it is not in the best or easiest to find and get to location in Chicagoland?'

:dunno:

Mike


----------



## BoulderGrad

mgk920 said:


> One thought - with all of the ongoing discussion of adding new teams to MLS, what is the likelihood that the league will have to eventually be split into two or more 'promotion/relegation' divisions, perhaps within the next ten to twenty years or so?


Snowball's chance in hell? Slim to none?

Relegation survives in Europe because, even tho its a big financial hit, support for teams is still fervent. Closest analog in the US would be support of your alma-mater college football team. Support for pro soccer in the US is no where near that level and is still fairly fragile. Any kind of relegation would be a death sentence, meaning owners would be insane to implement such a system. 




> BTW, as a lifelong NFL fan (Lambeau Field is only about 50 km from where I live and my family has a long-tenured season ticket subscription with the Packers) and being familiar with the history of how and when that league first got started and ultimately grew big, I am very impressed with how MLS is building its foundation.


Exactly, it takes quite a long time to build that kind of support. Maybe MLS will get there one day. But even with that level of support, I'd imagine most NFL owners down know the meaning of "relelgation"



> The only 'Hunh?' that I really have had so far is 'Why did the Chicago Fire build Toyota Park where they did - it is not in the best or easiest to find and get to location in Chicagoland?'


Why did the Rapids build in Commerce instead of Denver? Why did the Burn build in Frisco instead of downtown Dallas? Why did the Union build in Chester instead of the Philly stadium complex? etc etc

A: because it was a lot cheaper

B: To a lesser extent, old MLS demographics. The league originally tried to appeal to the suburban soccer mom looking for entertainment for the kids. Now its developing the supporters group type culture which tends to appeal to the beer drinking urban male. Thus you get the Sounders just south of DT Seattle, the Timbers just west of DT Portland, The Dynamo just East of DT Houston, The Whitecaps in DT Vancouver, etc etc


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

About relegation:
You might start to think about implementing socios model there, that exist in many European leagues and is growing - fans own clubs, and it is spread from Real Madrid and Barcelona to Schalke 04 to lower Scottish leagues teams - fans of my club are also about to implement that model to my club - Dinamo Zagreb.
As I am aware, it is something like above mentioned Packers are set up. 
I think this might be the only way to implement promotion relegation system there, as clubs would not depend on owners and their good will (nota bene, I am totally against that) and it's financing would be based on funds from their fans - their membership and donations; gate receipts; merchandise; sponsors; possibly local community.

BTW, Dynamo, my favourite team, built IMPRESSIVE stadium. I am delighted with it (only thing I don't like is that little roof over back stand, but I don't mind it).


----------



## eMKay

master_klon said:


> Why is a roof not needed on the new Earthquakes stadium?
> 
> 
> *Montreal VP: Stade Saputo will be ready for June 16 debut*


Because the MLS season is played in the summer here, and the weather in San Jose in the summer is usually sunny and not very hot. So on a 70 degree sunny day, if I want shade, I'll wear a hat.


----------



## master_klon

carnifex2005 said:


> During the soccer season, it rarely ever rains. The weather there can get hot but not unbearably so like in the south.





eMKay said:


> Because the MLS season is played in the summer here, and the weather in San Jose in the summer is usually sunny and not very hot. So on a 70 degree sunny day, if I want shade, I'll wear a hat.


Exactly what I thought might be the answer. I try to catch a few MLS games each week, haven't watched an Earthquakes home game though, so don't really know what climate they have. I assumed it would be very warm, but not too hot (like Dallas) as you said.  
But the main reason for a roof, as stated by the Earthquakes when presenting the design, is its acoustic benefits. Another positive is that you can integrate the PA and lighting into the roof design. Altogether I think its a smart, good looking feature for the stadium.


----------



## master_klon

Two weeks to go


----------



## JJG

Night shots


----------



## bd popeye

Gotta give multiple thumbs up for BBVA Compass Stadium..OUTSTANDING!

kay:kay:kay:


----------



## Syndic

So good. The landscaping just takes it over the top. Looks really perfect at night. 

Per the Dynamo Twitter page, the ribbon cutting is Tuesday. From what I've seen, they still have some seats to install. But maybe those were old pictures.


----------



## master_klon

^^ They are still installing the seats in the supporters section, but the supporters are not too happy about it. They said it's a waste of money to install seats in their section because they will break them anyway.

They should have copied what the Bundesliga clubs do:










Some of the seats unfolded:


----------



## bd popeye

master_klon said:


> ^^ They are still installing the seats in the supporters section, but the supporters are not too happy about it. They said it's a waste of money to install seats in their section because they will break them anyway.
> 
> They should have copied what the Bundesliga clubs do:


Where did you read that statement? could you post a link or expound please. thank you.

I assure you that if anyone breaks a seat they will be arrested..knowing the police in Texas.


----------



## master_klon

bd popeye said:


> Where did you read that statement? could you post a link or expound please. thank you.
> 
> I assure you that if anyone breaks a seat they will be arrested..knowing the police in Texas.


http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1836688&page=191


----------



## bd popeye

master_klon said:


> http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1836688&page=191


Thanks for that link..interesting forum.

In my opinion no one will tear out the seats at any Dynamo game unless they want to visit the Harris County jail and face a substantial fine or more jail time.


----------



## will101

Wow, hooliganism in the US. Who would have thought.

I wonder what happens when they come up against some trigger happy Texas cops?


----------



## vitaming

@the Kiwi above

NZ is playing El Salvador at BBVA on May 23


----------



## Darloeye

Breaking a chair will end you up to jail ! WOW

What would happen if someone set off a smoke bomb at a game ?


----------



## JJG

Darloeye said:


> Breaking a chair will end you up to jail ! WOW
> 
> What would happen if someone set off a smoke bomb at a game ?


25 to life.


----------



## Darloeye

JJG said:


> 25 to life.


:lol: No really !


----------



## master_klon

*BBVA Compass Stadium, Houston, Texas*

Tuesday, May 1: Ribbon Cutting
Thursday, May 3: Team Store Opening
Saturday, May 5: Meet Team/Open Stadium Tour/Fire Sale (STH Only!)
Thursday, May 10: US U-17 vs Dynamo Academy, Soft Opening (STH Only!)
Saturday, May 12: Grand Opening, Dynamo vs DCU


Houston Dynamo team photo today, Brian Ching twitter pics:


----------



## SoroushPersepolisi

master_klon said:


> Pictures taken at the media tour, by Nigel Brooks


great stadium , the only thing is that big orange wall and the tv installment, with all the bars and metal hanging out, this is more commonly seen in american stadiums and in my opinion it give the place an overly commercial disney land look and also makes it seem incomplete, rather than a simple, one piece and complete stadium

anyway, its a pretty nice stadium

bte i love the new U.S team uniform, its very nice


----------



## bd popeye

Darloeye said:


> Breaking a chair will end you up to jail ! WOW
> 
> What would happen if someone set off a smoke bomb at a game ?


You'd probably get arrested for disturbing the peace among other things. In many US states fireworks are illegal and a special permit is need to handle them.


----------



## Darloeye

bd popeye said:


> You'd probaly get arrested for disturbing the peace among other things. In many US states fireworks are illeagal and a spiecal permit is need to handle them.


Wow Wish the kids that let off a smoke bomb on saturday when watching my local team got nicked for it. hno: 

The stewards just let them off. 

The kids were 15 to 18. 

Bit off-topic sorry


----------



## Topher51

SoroushPersepolisi said:


> in my opinion it give the place an overly commercial disney land look


I don't follow this logic at all. Exactly what in Disneyland does the roof resemble?


----------



## SoroushPersepolisi

^^ i didnt specifically mean disneyland in that sense, the huge bars and the lack of "cover" it has (meaning all the bare bones of the structure have been exposed in such manner) kind of give the stadium a theme park roller coaster type look , which in my opinion isnt very chic and fitting for such a nice stadium

my word choice was a bit off there


----------



## Otto Racecar

Darloeye said:


> Wow Wish the kids that let off a smoke bomb on saturday when watching my local team got nicked for it. hno:
> 
> The stewards just let them off.
> 
> The kids were 15 to 18.
> 
> Bit off-topic sorry


Smoke bombs are permitted ,at least in the mls stadiums I've been to. Flares on the other hand seem to be prohibited.


----------



## master_klon




----------



## master_klon

More photos from the team photo shoot:


----------



## Ros43Bur

the pitch that much.


----------



## Syndic

So, this happened: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANz8uAJzFNU

Not sure what it is, but it was an event, in the stadium.

Gosh, opening day is getting closer and closer. A little more than a week now! Too bad I'm in Austin (I see Dynamo fans around here all the time) or else I'd try to attend. But I'll definitely be watching on the picture box!


----------



## JYDA

I wish they would cover the exposed concrete. Same with Red Bull Arena. Something like the designed wallpaper used at major soccer tournaments and in NFL stadiums to cover sideline walls.


----------



## matthemod

Apologies if this has been answered before but is the field at the new Dynamo stadium Turf or natural Grass?


----------



## bd popeye

^^ Well if you check out this picture below you will see sprinklers going. In my book that means real green grass.


----------



## waldenbg

It's not in the USA, but here is Toronto's BMO Field.


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^Never much minded that BMO and Saputo have made it on here a few times. Any way we can change the thread title to "Soccer Stadiums of North America? All pro leagues in the US worth mentioning have 1 or 2 overlaps with Canada.

P.S. Nice to see the good old days when Toronto actually had demand for tickets. When they going to get their act together again?


----------



## Syndic

JYDA said:


> I wish they would cover the exposed concrete. Same with Red Bull Arena. Something like the designed wallpaper used at major soccer tournaments and in NFL stadiums to cover sideline walls.


They actually have (finally) covered up most of that ugly concrete. It looks a lot better now.


----------



## rantanamo

bd popeye said:


> ^^ Well if you check out this picture below you will see sprinklers going. In my book that means real green grass.


Not saying real or fake, but infill turfs have to be watered to push the granules down and it keeps the field "conditioned"


----------



## JYDA

Syndic said:


> They actually have (finally) covered up most of that ugly concrete. It looks a lot better now.


Ahh good to see. Never mind then


----------



## master_klon

matthemod said:


> Apologies if this has been answered before but is the field at the new Dynamo stadium Turf or natural Grass?


Houston Dynamo has got natural grass.  Good its got a healthy green colour to it now, for the last few months there were plenty of areas which had dead grass and needed to be replaced.

Concourse









Street view at night










Aerial view at night








Picture courtesy of James Nielsen, Chronicle


----------



## master_klon

The BMO Field, Toronto pictures are a bit out-dated. The empty end now has a stand.









Latest video from Saputo Stadium, Montreal:





Saputo Stadium webcam http://www.impactmontreal.com/en/stadium/webcam-stade-saputo


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^How exactly are they going to have Saputo ready in a month?....


----------



## waldenbg

Here's a more recent image of BMO showing that there are no empty sides, seats all around


----------



## matthemod

There must be some moderator on here who can spend the 2 or so minutes of his/her time to change this thread to "Soccer Stadiums of North America".


----------



## Darloeye

^^^^ Little small. Why does the stand to the left seem so far away from the pitch ?


----------



## master-chivas

matthemod said:


> There must be some moderator on here who can spend the 2 or so minutes of his/her time to change this thread to "Soccer Stadiums of North America".


Do you want to have stadiums from Mexico and Greenland?... you know from North-America

maybe it's more accurate to name it " stadiums of the MLS "


----------



## Darloeye

master-chivas said:


> ^^^^:nuts::nuts:
> 
> pfff... silly question... ever heard of time machines! pfff



:weird: Ever heard of a Tardis !


----------



## matthemod

master-chivas said:


> Do you want to have stadiums from Mexico and Greenland?... you know from North-America
> 
> maybe it's more accurate to name it " stadiums of the MLS "


Maybe Stadium's of the MLS would be more accurate, but I wouldn't be opposed to featuring Mexican and Greenlandish (sp?) soccer stadiums featuring in it. It just doesn't seem fair that Toronto FC, Vancouver Whitecaps and Montreal Impact cannot have their stadium development included in a thread that relates to the league that Soccer Specific Stadiums compete within.


----------



## Darloeye

the mods have posted on here saying its fine to post info on canada stadiums


----------



## JYDA

Behold, the national stadium of Greenland


----------



## eMKay

matthemod said:


> Maybe Stadium's of the MLS would be more accurate, but I wouldn't be opposed to featuring Mexican and Greenlandish (sp?) soccer stadiums featuring in it. It just doesn't seem fair that Toronto FC, Vancouver Whitecaps and Montreal Impact cannot have their stadium development included in a thread that relates to the league that Soccer Specific Stadiums compete within.


What are you talking about? Toronto's has been in this thread from the beginning, so has Montreal. Vancouver's has it's own thread as it's larger than 30,000.


----------



## waldenbg

Darloeye said:


> ^^^^ Little small. Why does the stand to the left seem so far away from the pitch ?


small? and I think its because that stand was added in later.


----------



## master-chivas

greenland stadium is almost like braga's


----------



## SouthmoreAvenue

I know LSP and RBA are essentially the titleholders for best SSS in MLS, but BBVA Compass is accentuated by it's proximity to the city center, and I totally dig the modern, industrial design. A very distinguishable look for any sports venue, and I think easily the most unique SSS, if not the best, but hopefully it has the atmosphere to match the awesome exterior. 



master_klon said:


> Street view at night
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aerial view at night
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picture courtesy of James Nielsen, Chronicle


----------



## BoulderGrad

master-chivas said:


> Do you want to have stadiums from Mexico and Greenland?... you know from North-America
> 
> maybe it's more accurate to name it " stadiums of the MLS "


But we've shown stadiums from USL and NASL as well (San Antonio Scorpions is the main example I can remember). Doesn't matter to me.


----------



## JJG

BoulderGrad said:


> But we've shown stadiums from USL and NASL as well (San Antonio Scorpions is the main example I can remember). Doesn't matter to me.


"Soccer Stadiums of the USA+"


DONE.


----------



## Darloeye

waldenbg said:


> small? and I think its because that stand was added in later.


Yeah I was talking about the photo being small not the stand. my mistake hno:


----------



## matthemod

eMKay said:


> What are you talking about? Toronto's has been in this thread from the beginning, so has Montreal. Vancouver's has it's own thread as it's larger than 30,000.


I admit they've been included, but it's just a little nitpicking issue. "Soccer Stadiums of the USA and Canada" would work.


----------



## Welkin

SouthmoreAvenue said:


> I know LSP and RBA are essentially the titleholders for best SSS in MLS, but BBVA Compass is accentuated by it's proximity to the city center, and I totally dig the modern, industrial design. A very distinguishable look for any sports venue, and I think easily the most unique SSS, if not the best, but hopefully it has the atmosphere to match the awesome exterior.


I agree with you that BBVA holds its own with any stadium in MLS. I also think it is great that BBVA cost *less than half* of what they spent on LSP and RBA.


----------



## Welkin

BoulderGrad said:


> ^^Never much minded that BMO and Saputo have made it on here a few times. Any way we can change the thread title to "Soccer Stadiums of North America? All pro leagues in the US worth mentioning have 1 or 2 overlaps with Canada.
> 
> *P.S. Nice to see the good old days when Toronto actually had demand for tickets. When they going to get their act together again?*


Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment (MLSE) are the worst (but most profitable) owners in sports. They do not have a single winning franchise (Maple Leafs, Raptors, TFC) and they cannot even bring a winning hockey team to the "Hockey Capital of the Universe". They had no passion for winning, only making profits for their owners the Ontario Teacher's Pension Plan. Hopefully, now that MLSE has been sold to Bell Canada and Rogers Communications, maybe the new owners will focus more on winning and less on screwing their loyal fans.


----------



## master_klon

A quick message to the moderator, and the title is changed. Thanks sercan :cheers:


----------



## koolio

Welkin said:


> Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment (MLSE) are the worst (but most profitable) owners in sports. They do not have a single winning franchise (Maple Leafs, Raptors, TFC) and they cannot even bring a winning hockey team to the "Hockey Capital of the Universe". They had no passion for winning, only making profits for their owners the Ontario Teacher's Pension Plan. Hopefully, now that MLSE has been sold to Bell Canada and Rogers Communications, maybe the new owners will focus more on winning and less on screwing their loyal fans.


Uhhh ... have you ever dealt with either of Bell or Rogers? Screwing their customers is what they do best. The losing will continue well into the next couple of years. At this point, I am honestly scared for the long-term existence of TFC. With so much losing, people have become completely apathetic to the team. So far, their financial success has been entirely thanks to MLSE's superior marketing skills. But you can't keep fooling people forever. Their marketing magic is about to become completely ineffective.


----------



## Welkin

koolio said:


> Uhhh ... have you ever dealt with either of Bell or Rogers? Screwing their customers is what they do best. The losing will continue well into the next couple of years. At this point, I am honestly scared for the long-term existence of TFC. With so much losing, people have become completely apathetic to the team. So far, their financial success has been entirely thanks to MLSE's superior marketing skills. But you can't keep fooling people forever. Their marketing magic is about to become completely ineffective.


Unfortunately I am very aware personally of Rogers and Bell screwing their customers. I guess it was just a hopeful naive prayer that after years and years of MLSE we might finally get a decent owner. I am going to give them the benefit of doubt for at least a couple of years and keep my Leafs and TFC season tickets, but we'd better start seeing some improvements soon or I will be another one of the many loyal fans that starts staying home more and more.


----------



## Syndic

Well, that was fun. Now how about Saputo Stadium? How is that looking?


----------



## bd popeye

> are you sure they were empties or just people wearing orange?


The place looked full to me..lots of fans wore Orange.

Ahh... I watched the highlights.. As a non-soccer fan I really enjoyed the highlights...Maybe just maybe I'll watch a game or two this season.

I'm not converted yet..but I'm beginning to understand why billions love this game...yea I posted that.


----------



## slipperydog

bd popeye said:


> The place looked full to me..lots of fans wore Orange.
> 
> Ahh... I watched the highlights.. As a non-soccer fan I really enjoyed the highlights...Maybe just maybe I'll watch a game or two this season.
> 
> I'm not converted yet..but I'm beginning to understand why billions love this game...yea I posted that.


I'm going to go slightly OT with this video, but non-soccer fans like yourself would do well to watch this montage for the season that ended yesterday. THIS is why we all love the game. And we are all hoping MLS someday becomes something like this...Enjoy


----------



## master_klon

^^ Exactly why we love the game. Nothing compares.



mattec said:


> are you sure they were empties or just people wearing orange?
> 
> because I originally thought that until they did a crowd closeup


Definitely empty seats, a lot of comments from people at the game about this. Just look at the highlights, easy to spot throughout the whole video (e.g. 30 minutes into the game). Not only did many decide not to turn up; but many others who were there for the occasion and not for the team left throughout the game. Hopefully these people make space for the real supporters to return. 



Syndic said:


> Well, that was fun. Now how about Saputo Stadium? How is that looking?


Webcam http://www.impactmontreal.com/en/stadium/webcam-stade-saputo

They did a great job to get another record crowd of 60860 against LA Galaxy. One month before their new stadium is supposed to open, but I hope they will occasionally play in the Olympic Stadium in the future.


----------



## hubemx

Dynamo Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150769813346150.382189.20105631149&type=3


----------



## bd popeye

Looks pretty full to me..at least 85-90%.

what happens with many sporting events ticket brokers buy up the tickets in anticipation of the event. many times they can't sell all the tickets they purchased... but never the less the event is sold out.


----------



## Darloeye

bd popeye said:


> The place looked full to me..lots of fans wore Orange.
> 
> Ahh... I watched the highlights.. As a non-soccer fan I really enjoyed the highlights...Maybe just maybe I'll watch a game or two this season.
> 
> I'm not converted yet..but I'm beginning to understand why billions love this game...yea I posted that.



:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers: :applause:


----------



## master_klon

Saputo Stadium, Montreal (13,034 expanded to 20,341)


----------



## master_klon




----------



## bigchrisfgb

Does anyone think Canada will be able to host the Gold Cup in the near future? 

They like the USA are starting to build more Soccer specific stadiums and have a number that can be used for Soccer. The USA have pretty much hosted the Gold Cup alone for quit a while now. It would be good to see the Canadian stadiums host the tournament themselves or at least as part of a co-hosted event. I know Canada in the past have expressed interest in hosting the World Cup at some point so maybe it would be great practice for them to host one in future either by themselves or again as part of a co-host with the USA.


----------



## JYDA

bigchrisfgb said:


> Does anyone think Canada will be able to host the Gold Cup in the near future?
> 
> They like the USA are starting to build more Soccer specific stadiums and have a number that can be used for Soccer. The USA have pretty much hosted the Gold Cup alone for quit a while now. It would be good to see the Canadian stadiums host the tournament themselves or at least as part of a co-hosted event. I know Canada in the past have expressed interest in hosting the World Cup at some point so maybe it would be great practice for them to host one in future either by themselves or again as part of a co-host with the USA.


Chuck Blazer mentioned they tried to include Canada in the 2011 gold cup but it created a whole bunch of visa issues that were too much of a headache. 

CONCACAF runs the tournament purely to maximize profit so if they see sufficient dollar signs they'll find a way to make it happen in the future. It would only be a co-host though. Mexico and to a lesser extent Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatemala draw well across the US and they would not want to leave those millions of dollars on the table. 

As for the world cup, one can dream but not going to happen. If England and the United States can't win the hosting rights on merit then what chance do we have?


----------



## Scba

Stands going up at Cedar Lane Park for the PDL's new Baltimore Bohemians.










Was expecting something, er, steeper, but it beats standing. If they have a gameday that's not as muggy and brutal as it was today when I took the picture, I'll check it out. Not sure how they're going to fare here, though. The stadium's nowhere near Baltimore, out in Harford County, and they seem to be marketing much more towards the die-hard soccer crowd than families and average folk.


----------



## bigchrisfgb

JYDA said:


> Chuck Blazer mentioned they tried to include Canada in the 2011 gold cup but it created a whole bunch of visa issues that were too much of a headache.
> 
> CONCACAF runs the tournament purely to maximize profit so if they see sufficient dollar signs they'll find a way to make it happen in the future. It would only be a co-host though. Mexico and to a lesser extent Honduras, El Salvador, and Guatemala draw well across the US and they would not want to leave those millions of dollars on the table.
> 
> As for the world cup, one can dream but not going to happen. If England and the United States can't win the hosting rights on merit then what chance do we have?


Shame. As a commonwealth citizen I myself don't experience visa issues for just visiting Canada but I've always though that even so it's harder to gain access to the USA for a holiday then Canada. I didn't realise it would be much of an issue. Arn't USA and Canadian citizens allowed to cross each others borders fairly easily?


----------



## carnifex2005

Congrats on LIVESTRONG Sporting Park on getting recognized as a top class facility. Strange that they won Venue of the Year over AMEX Community Stadium but lost out on New Venue of the Year to the same stadium.

Sporting Club Kansas City receives four StadiumBusiness Awards

TheStadiumBusiness Awards were announced today at the Museo dell'Automobile di Torino in Italy. Sporting Club earned honors in four of the six categories the company was nominated for including Venue of the Year, Executive of the Year, the Community Award and the Product Innovation Award.

LIVESTRONG Sporting Park was selected as Venue of the Year for the world’s best stadium, arena or sports venue – from the small club to the mega-capacity national sports facilities. The $200+ million venue was up against competition from four different continents.

Other nominees for Venue of the Year included the site of the 2012 NBA All-Star Game (Amway Center) and 2011 Rugby World Cup (Forsyth Barr Stadium), as well as the home of Brighton & Hove Albion FC (The American Express Community Stadium).

Story continued in link...


----------



## vitaming

bigchrisfgb said:


> Shame. *As a commonwealth citizen I myself don't experience visa issues for just visiting Canada* but I've always though that even so it's harder to gain access to the USA for a holiday then Canada. I didn't realise it would be much of an issue. Arn't USA and Canadian citizens allowed to cross each others borders fairly easily?


That's actually an interesting point. If they invited England, it might recoup for some of the LatAm fanbase they'd lose out on.


----------



## JYDA

bigchrisfgb said:


> Shame. As a commonwealth citizen I myself don't experience visa issues for just visiting Canada but I've always though that even so it's harder to gain access to the USA for a holiday then Canada. I didn't realise it would be much of an issue. Arn't USA and Canadian citizens allowed to cross each others borders fairly easily?


I think the problem is more of the fact you have teams from central america/mexico/caribbean etc being granted a visa to be in the united states for the duration of the tournament but then leaving and re-entering from Canada throughout the tournament.


----------



## ryebreadraz

vitaming said:


> That's actually an interesting point. If they invited England, it might recoup for some of the LatAm fanbase they'd lose out on.


I doubt they would. Mexico usually fills up 60-90k for each of their matches and some of the other countries put 20k or more into stadiums. England couldn't match Mexico simply because the biggest Canadian stadium is 66k so even if they fill it, they're behind the 80k that were in Dallas, 78k in Jersey, 70k in Houston and 90k in LA. That's without getting into the 20k+ to see Honduras and Guatemala throughout the group stage.

Of course, CONCACAF has also backed off of having guest teams in the Hold Cup so there's that to deal with too. The only way Canada gets a chance is if they co-host with the US, but as has been mentioned, visas are an issue. It's a shame, too, because I'd love to go to Canada for a Gold Cup.


----------



## JYDA

carnifex2005 said:


> Congrats on LIVESTRONG Sporting Park on getting recognized as a top class facility. Strange that they won Venue of the Year over AMEX Community Stadium but lost out on New Venue of the Year to the same stadium.
> 
> Sporting Club Kansas City receives four StadiumBusiness Awards
> 
> TheStadiumBusiness Awards were announced today at the Museo dell'Automobile di Torino in Italy. Sporting Club earned honors in four of the six categories the company was nominated for including Venue of the Year, Executive of the Year, the Community Award and the Product Innovation Award.
> 
> LIVESTRONG Sporting Park was selected as Venue of the Year for the world’s best stadium, arena or sports venue – from the small club to the mega-capacity national sports facilities. The $200+ million venue was up against competition from four different continents.
> 
> Other nominees for Venue of the Year included the site of the 2012 NBA All-Star Game (Amway Center) and 2011 Rugby World Cup (Forsyth Barr Stadium), as well as the home of Brighton & Hove Albion FC (The American Express Community Stadium).
> 
> Story continued in link...


That's a very high honour considering the Forsyth Barr Stadium is the first of its kind in the world.


----------



## Welkin

JYDA said:


> That's a very high honour considering the Forsyth Barr Stadium is the first of its kind in the world.


I was not impressed at all with American Express Stadium. Although it is better than some of the boring boxes they tend to build in England (Riverside, Ricoh), I am not a fan of three-tired sides. Livestrong is a much nicer venue and deserves to win. It is by far the best in MLS. The new BBVA stadium in Houston is nice, but it is no where near the same level as Livestrong Park. Again, congrats to Sporting.


----------



## will101

bigchrisfgb said:


> Shame. As a commonwealth citizen I myself don't experience visa issues for just visiting Canada but I've always though that even so it's harder to gain access to the USA for a holiday then Canada. I didn't realise it would be much of an issue. Arn't USA and Canadian citizens allowed to cross each others borders fairly easily?


Not since 9/11. The wave of paranoia that swept over the US after that resulted in the requirement of passports for everyone entering the US, including returning US citizens. Canada and Mexico responded in kind, so the days of easy border crossings are long gone.


----------



## Nexis

Most people had passports or some sort of upgraded ID , so getting into the US wasn't an issue...still really isn't.


----------



## koolio

Except for me this one time when on my way to Buffalo, I checked and realized that my passport had just expired  I had to turn around and return home and everyone else became mad at me


----------



## bigchrisfgb

koolio said:


> Except for me this one time when on my way to Buffalo, I checked and realized that my passport had just expired  I had to turn around and return home and everyone else became mad at me


I never got that expiry rule. Surely your the same person? I can understand it if your photo is of when you were a child and your now an adult, or if you have aged 50 years but for the most part surely it shouldn't have an expiry date?


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## Darloeye

^^ Nice goal at 1:22 :applause:


----------



## will101

bigchrisfgb said:


> I never got that expiry rule. Surely your the same person? I can understand it if your photo is of when you were a child and your now an adult, or if you have aged 50 years but for the most part surely it shouldn't have an expiry date?


All United States passports have an expiration date. Normally it is five years after the date of issuance, but if you send them extra money you can make it 10 years.


----------



## vanbasten88

bigchrisfgb said:


> I never got that expiry rule. Surely your the same person? I can understand it if your photo is of when you were a child and your now an adult, or if you have aged 50 years but for the most part surely it shouldn't have an expiry date?


If your passport didn't expire, how would the govt explain gouging you a couple hundred bucks a throw for a new one? Seriously though: Like a Drivers Licence a fair bit about your appearance can change in 10 years.


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## BoulderGrad

^^Haha, I like it at 1:40 when they show D-Ro looking around with a look of "Gee... I wish we had one of these for DC..."


----------



## bigchrisfgb

vanbasten88 said:


> If your passport didn't expire, how would the govt explain gouging you a couple hundred bucks a throw for a new one? Seriously though: Like a Drivers Licence a fair bit about your appearance can change in 10 years.


In the UK you only have too change your driving licence if your picture has changed so much or your address changes.

A similar policy should work on passports, only change it if your photo doesn't look like you anymore. Also you have to remember that you only get so many pages these days to have stamps on, that would also come into play as foreign travel is becoming more and more common.


----------



## will101

bigchrisfgb said:


> In the UK you only have too change your driving licence if your picture has changed so much or your address changes.
> 
> A similar policy should work on passports, only change it if your photo doesn't look like you anymore. Also you have to remember that you only get so many pages these days to have stamps on, that would also come into play as foreign travel is becoming more and more common.


In California the drivers license is only good for five years. IIRC Oregon's are only good for a similar time period.

However, if you need more pages added to your passport, that can be done in the US. For a fee, of course.


----------



## mgk920

will101 said:


> In California the drivers license is only good for five years. IIRC Oregon's are only good for a similar time period.
> 
> However, if you need more pages added to your passport, that can be done in the US. For a fee, of course.


My Wisconsin DL is now good for eight years. Also, yes, for a (fairly hefty) fee, the State Department will add additional visa stamp pages to your passport. Until a couple of years ago, that service was *FREE*.

Mike


----------



## slipperydog

Not stadium related, but this pic of Blair Gavin from the Chivas-Galaxy game last night is epic. It's like the ref's not sure if it's legal...


----------



## mamangvilla

^^playing soccer..... like a sir:applause:


----------



## DimitriB

Is there any news about the expansion of the MLS from 19 to 20 teams?


----------



## Archbishop

DimitriB said:


> Is there any news about the expansion of the MLS from 19 to 20 teams?


I doubt there will be anytime soon. MLS is waiting on NY2 to get a legit bid. I doubt they are even considering places like San Antonio or Orlando for 20. 20 is all NYC which is frustrating because they will never get a real bid together hno:


----------



## JJG

Archbishop said:


> I doubt there will be anytime soon. MLS is waiting on NY2 to get a legit bid. I doubt they are even considering places like San Antonio or Orlando for 20. 20 is all NYC which is frustrating because they will never get a real bid together hno:


Speaking for San Antonio, there's at least something in plan (with a current NASL team in existance)


----------



## mattec

JJG said:


> Speaking for San Antonio, there's at least something in plan (with a current NASL team in existance)


looks more like an FCS stadium than a potential MLS stadium


----------



## JJG

mattec said:


> looks more like an FCS stadium than a potential MLS stadium


.... don't ya think you can say that for pretty much any MLS stadium other than maybe Red Bull Arena (not counting CenturyLink, RFK, and BC)? 

I mean FCS teams can and do play in Soccer Specific Stadiums as well.


----------



## Benn

^^I would argue KC feels like a soccer stadium, same with Montreal and Toronto (they seem cheap, but Soccer stadiums none the less). This does seem have bit more of a college football vibe than the generic LA, Colorado, Dallas etc venues as well. Not that there is anything inherently wrong with that, just has that sort of a vibe to it, especially in the final build out with the big main stand and open endzone so to speak.


----------



## krnboy1009

carnifex2005 said:


> And the Bucks just beat the Chicago Fire 3 - 2 in extra time to move on. Unique stadium to say the least. It's like the players are playing in a barn with the walls so close to the field.
> 
> Pitch invasion!!!


Does MLS players even care about US OPen cup?


----------



## JJG

carnifex2005 said:


> The San Antonio Scorpions of the NASL (US Div 2) have updated their stadium plans. Phase 4 looks much better now...


Better.... and funny thing is, I was actually thinking about something like this earlier today.


----------



## KingmanIII

carnifex2005 said:


>


that practice facility just gets in the way :down:


----------



## slipperydog

hubemx said:


> *Saputo*


Um, they're going to need to lay that grass if they want to have a game there on June 16. Sod doesn't just set overnight.


----------



## BoulderGrad

slipperydog said:


> Um, they're going to need to lay that grass if they want to have a game there on June 16. Sod doesn't just set overnight.


Article says it will start to be laid this coming week.


----------



## master_klon

BoulderGrad said:


> Article says it will start to be laid this coming week.


Definitely next week (probably early in the week) The webcam shows that the top level of soil is almost done.

Here's a picture of the grass for the stadium:










Montreal Impact joined NASL in 2008 with their new stadium. The grass failed, and the conditions of the pitch in the first year was so horrible that in many places they were just playing on dirt. They said it would be different now because they have been growing the grass for eight months now on a soil structure identical with what will be at the stadium. You think they might of learnt their lesson from just four years ago. :nuts:


----------



## master_klon

carnifex2005 said:


> The San Antonio Scorpions of the NASL (US Div 2) have updated their stadium plans. Phase 4 looks much better now...


I think that they should go straight to Phase 2. Now that they are settled in, the attendances seem to be around 8,500 and with increased interest next year when their stadium opens I think it would be stupid to opt for a 6,100 seater instead of the 8,000 seater (which also has a more completed look).


----------



## RMB2007

KingmanIII said:


> that practice facility just gets in the way :down:


I agree, but I guess there's still loads of time for the plans to change again, so that building could be relocated to a different position. For me, I kinda like the idea that one day the new Scorpions stadium will end up like a mini version of this legendary stadium (Vicente Calderón Stadium) that's soon to be demolished:


----------



## JJG

master_klon said:


> I think that they should go straight to Phase 2. Now that they are settled in, the attendances seem to be around 8,500 and with increased interest next year when their stadium opens I think it would be stupid to opt for a 6,100 seater instead of the 8,000 seater (which also has a more completed look).


They just may do so...


----------



## RMB2007

Blimey! 





> Smack in the middle of Manhattan on a dilapidated pier on the Hudson River. The Major League Soccer (MLS) is currently trying to convince local officials and residents of the idea of building a soccer-specific stadium at Pier 40 (photo above).


http://www.stadiumguide.com/now-heres-a-site-for-a-new-stadium/


----------



## Benn

Intriguing, like the idea of a venue right on Manhattan, sounds really expensive though.


----------



## Scba

What's inside the area around the playing fields?


----------



## RMB2007

^^ Car park, I think:


----------



## JYDA

This one really looks like bmo field except for the roof on the low stand


----------



## eMKay

RMB2007 said:


> Blimey!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.stadiumguide.com/now-heres-a-site-for-a-new-stadium/


They need to do this!


----------



## Darloeye

Yeah it would look great on telly if they built a 20-25k seater stadium here


----------



## mgk920

Scba said:


> What's inside the area around the playing fields?


Likely abandoned port warehouses.

Google's aerial image of that site shows parking:
https://maps.google.com/?ll=40.729389,-74.0128&spn=0.004707,0.006899&t=k&z=17

A 3/4 view shows that the former port warehouse building is now a multilevel parking garage that wraps around the fields.
http://binged.it/MnDbT0
My guess is that whatever is done there will also have to replicate the parking spaces that would be taken for the stadium.

I agree, this would be an intriguing venue for major professional sports. Might this ultimately be where the re-incarnated Cosmos will play?

---------------

On another note, with all of this action in the Division 2 NASL, conversion to a promotion/relegation system is looking to me to be a more and more attractive course for the future of professional fútbol here in North America.

:yes:

Mike


----------



## matthemod

It would definitely make things more interesting, as it completely adds a new element of play. Unfortunately I support a relatively crap team in the U.K., and I can tell you fighting a relegation fight and gaining survival can feel as good as gaining promotion. 

I would like to envisage an eventual promotion/relegation system for the MLS, but I can't see the owners of each club supporting it.


----------



## slipperydog

RMB2007 said:


> Blimey!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.stadiumguide.com/now-heres-a-site-for-a-new-stadium/


How are the transport links?


----------



## BoulderGrad

slipperydog said:


> How are the transport links?


In general, I'd put money on anything being built in Manhattan having good transport links. But if we're counting: metro stop 4 blocks away (less than half a mile), on a major thoroughfare, walkable area. Only thing I can't really speak to is bicycle accessibility.


----------



## mgk920

BoulderGrad said:


> In general, I'd put money on anything being built in Manhattan having good transport links. But if we're counting: metro stop 4 blocks away (less than half a mile), on a major thoroughfare, walkable area. Only thing I can't really speak to is bicycle accessibility.


Also, 3-4 blocks from the end of an interstate highway (I-78/Holland Tunnel). IMHO, as I stated above, parking would be a big issue and they'd likely have to retain at least some of it on the site and/or build a new garage for it across the street.

Mike


----------



## eMKay

slipperydog said:


> How are the transport links?


In Manhattan? lol.


----------



## Darloeye

Can't see owners letting teams getting promotion/relegation system. 

Having seen my local team go down 5 leagues in 3 years its not fun. 

4 of them was in one day .


----------



## BoulderGrad

mgk920 said:


> On another note, with all of this action in the Division 2 NASL, conversion to a promotion/relegation system is looking to me to be a more and more attractive course for the future of professional fútbol here in North America.
> 
> :yes:
> 
> Mike


Problem with that: Every team likes the promotion part of that... not so much on the relegation...


----------



## carnifex2005

mgk920 said:


> On another note, with all of this action in the Division 2 NASL, conversion to a promotion/relegation system is looking to me to be a more and more attractive course for the future of professional fútbol here in North America.
> 
> :yes:
> 
> Mike


MLS already has a promotion system. You have $40 million bucks, a rich owner and a suitable stadium, you're in.


----------



## slipperydog

eMKay said:


> In Manhattan? lol.


I didn't assume that all areas of Manhattan have the same degree of accessibility.


----------



## Archbishop

mgk920 said:


> On another note, with all of this action in the Division 2 NASL, conversion to a promotion/relegation system is looking to me to be a more and more attractive course for the future of professional fútbol here in North America.
> 
> :yes:


No, not at all.


----------



## bd popeye

> On another note, with all of this action in the Division 2 NASL, conversion to a promotion/relegation system is looking to me to be a more and more attractive course for the future of professional fútbol here in North America.


Nope..not going to happen anytime soon. The owners have forked out to much $$$ to be regulated to a lower division. They will never allow this. It works in other countries because their sporting culture is long established in the mode of promotion/relegation. Not so in the USA.

As you know no major sport in the US has promotion/relegation. Can you imagine say the New York Yankees been regulated to a AAA baseball league? No way..no how.


----------



## master_klon

It wouldn't work in the US, but that is fine because the playoff system replaces the need for promotion/relegation as even the bottom few teams have something to play for at the end of the season.

I would like to see a strong second division where all the teams have their own SSS and get crowds over 10,000 per game. Orlando City SC (without the SSS though) and San Antonio Scorpions are model examples of what it should look like.


----------



## vanbasten88

bd popeye said:


> Nope..not going to happen anytime soon. The owners have forked out to much $$$ to be regulated to a lower division. They will never allow this. It works in other countries because their sporting culture is long established in the mode of promotion/regulation. Not so in the USA.
> 
> As you know no major sport in the US has promotion/regulation. Can you imagine say the New York Yankees been regulated to a AAA baseball league? No way..no how.


Never is a long time. I'm 100% sure that 20 years ago, somebody somewhere was adamant that professional Soccer would flop in the USA and couldn't possibly work no way..no how, then offered a similarly reasonable example as you have. Things change, who knows what the future holds. I agree that it is unlikely, but I hardly think it is impossible.


----------



## Calvin W

vanbasten88 said:


> Never is a long time. I'm 100% sure that 20 years ago, somebody somewhere was adamant that professional Soccer would flop in the USA and couldn't possibly work no way..no how, then offered a similarly reasonable example as you have. Things change, who knows what the future holds. I agree that it is unlikely, but I hardly think it is impossible.


About as likely as AFL teams being relegated to state leagues . No how No way! NEVER....


----------



## eMKay

matthemod said:


> It would definitely make things more interesting, as it completely adds a new element of play. Unfortunately I support a relatively crap team in the U.K., and I can tell you fighting a relegation fight and gaining survival can feel as good as gaining promotion.
> 
> I would like to envisage an eventual promotion/relegation system for the MLS, but I can't see the owners of each club supporting it.


Why is this ridiculous idea brought up on seemingly every page in a NORTH AMERICAN thread? It will not work here, not now, not ever. DROP IT


----------



## mgk920

bd popeye said:


> Nope..not going to happen anytime soon. The owners have forked out to much $$$ to be regulated to a lower division. They will never allow this. It works in other countries because their sporting culture is long established in the mode of promotion/regulation. Not so in the USA.
> 
> As you know no major sport in the US has promotion/regulation. Can you imagine say the New York Yankees been regulated to a AAA baseball league? No way..no how.


Well, Manchester United was relegated and spent a season in the English Second Division back in 1974 and FC Köln was relegated from the Bundesliga just a few weeks ago.

:yes:

Mike


----------



## joezierer

bd popeye said:


> Nope..not going to happen anytime soon. The owners have forked out to much $$$ to be regulated to a lower division. They will never allow this. It works in other countries because their sporting culture is long established in the mode of promotion/regulation. Not so in the USA.
> 
> As you know no major sport in the US has promotion/regulation. Can you imagine say the New York Yankees been regulated to a AAA baseball league? No way..no how.


I don't know about you but I'd rather have the Columbus Clippers (2011 AAA Champ) playing in the NL right now instead of the friggin Pirates, who spend the bare minimum allowed in the MLB and whose owner doesn't care about fielding a competitive team. Promotion in baseball can't work because of the Farm System obviously but christ imagine if a MLS team was slumming around with a really small payroll while there was a great NASL team who was rejected because "hurr not in a big enough market".

edit: of course I go look up the standings and the Pirates are 27-26 but whatever.


----------



## bd popeye

I'm not an soccer or MLS Fan.. but I am stadium fan. 

I want the MLS to succeed but promotion/regulation will not work in the US in my opinion..in any sport.



> I don't know about you but I'd rather have the Columbus Clippers (2011 AAA Champ) playing in the NL right now instead of the friggin Pirates


In my opinion they would be just as bad if not worse. MLB is a lot different than AAA baseball.


----------



## JJG

Some people have to understand. What works in Europe will almost certainly NOT work here.


----------



## BoulderGrad

horse dead, back to stadiums, hows saputo looking?


----------



## MontrealYul

Like this:

http://www.impactmontreal.com/fr/stadium/webcam-stade-saputo


----------



## master_klon

By the look of it, they will be installing the grass today or tomorrow. Just a guess...


----------



## vanbasten88

Calvin W said:


> About as likely as AFL teams being relegated to state leagues . No how No way! NEVER....


I'm sorry for all the North Americans in this thread that have got their panties into a twist. Nowhere in my statement did I say Pro/rel was highly likely. You guys have given your opinions based on your knowledge and understanding of the prevailing culture in that part of the world as it stands today, but that's all it is. An opinion. If you'd asked an Aussie Rules fan 20 years ago how the game would look in 2012, there's no way a sane person would have predicted what we have now - especially 2 teams in a State(NSW) that still views it as Victorian Rules(or aerial ping pong) and completely foreign. 

All I'm saying is, Never is a powerful word. I wonder how many people told the Wright brothers they'd never fly? 
There exists a slim possibility based on the possibility of growth in the NASL and MLS that one day far into the future some sort of pro/rel system could exist. what form would it take????...buggered if I know, but to rule it out as a never ever based on today's knowledge is just lunacy. Hell there exists a slim possibility that the USA could generate an underclass of working poor who outnumber the middle class and such trifles as organised pro sport for leisure/pleasure are simply placed out of the financial reach of lots of people. We don't know. To say you do know is arrogance of the highest order. :cheers:

Now, back on topic, hows the Montreal stadium coming along? anybody? will it be ready for its scheduled opening? :cheers:


----------



## master_klon

^^ Grass currently being installed in Saptuto Stadium (link to the stadium webcam at the top of this page).

10 days till opening. :lol:


----------



## Calvin W

vanbasten88 said:


> I'm sorry for all the North Americans in this thread that have got their panties into a twist. Nowhere in my statement did I say Pro/rel was highly likely. You guys have given your opinions based on your knowledge and understanding of the prevailing culture in that part of the world as it stands today, but that's all it is. An opinion. If you'd asked an Aussie Rules fan 20 years ago how the game would look in 2012, there's no way a sane person would have predicted what we have now - especially 2 teams in a State(NSW) that still views it as Victorian Rules(or aerial ping pong) and completely foreign.
> 
> All I'm saying is, Never is a powerful word. I wonder how many people told the Wright brothers they'd never fly?
> There exists a slim possibility based on the possibility of growth in the NASL and MLS that one day far into the future some sort of pro/rel system could exist. what form would it take????...buggered if I know, but to rule it out as a never ever based on today's knowledge is just lunacy. Hell there exists a slim possibility that the USA could generate an underclass of working poor who outnumber the middle class and such trifles as organised pro sport for leisure/pleasure are simply placed out of the financial reach of lots of people. We don't know. To say you do know is arrogance of the highest order. :cheers:
> 
> Now, back on topic, hows the Montreal stadium coming along? anybody? will it be ready for its scheduled opening? :cheers:


Well not one to derail a thread, but don't make assumptions mate. I'm Australian......

As any Victorian about relegating a team to the vfl.... See what response you get....


----------



## carnifex2005

master_klon said:


> ^^ Grass currently being installed in Saptuto Stadium (link to the stadium webcam at the top of this page).
> 
> 10 days till opening. :lol:


Here's a pic...










This is going to end well.


----------



## Welkin

vanbasten88 said:


> I'm sorry for all the North Americans in this thread that have got their panties into a twist. Nowhere in my statement did I say Pro/rel was highly likely. You guys have given your opinions based on your knowledge and understanding of the prevailing culture in that part of the world as it stands today, but that's all it is. An opinion. If you'd asked an Aussie Rules fan 20 years ago how the game would look in 2012, there's no way a sane person would have predicted what we have now - especially 2 teams in a State(NSW) that still views it as Victorian Rules(or aerial ping pong) and completely foreign.
> 
> All I'm saying is, Never is a powerful word. I wonder how many people told the Wright brothers they'd never fly?
> There exists a slim possibility based on the possibility of growth in the NASL and MLS that one day far into the future some sort of pro/rel system could exist. what form would it take????...buggered if I know, but to rule it out as a never ever based on today's knowledge is just lunacy. Hell there exists a slim possibility that the USA could generate an underclass of working poor who outnumber the middle class and such trifles as organised pro sport for leisure/pleasure are simply placed out of the financial reach of lots of people. We don't know. To say you do know is arrogance of the highest order. :cheers:
> 
> Now, back on topic, hows the Montreal stadium coming along? anybody? will it be ready for its scheduled opening? :cheers:



Major League Baseball has been around for *143 years*. The National Football League has been around for *92 years*. Professional football in Canada (CFL, IRFU,WIFU) has been around for *120 years*. The National Hockey League has been around for *95 years*. In all this time, none of these leagues have* ever* considered promotion/relegation. I would say that *never* is a pretty good choice of term. It will never happen and over 143 years of history backs that up.

Our leagues may change through expansion, but they will never change through promotion/relegation. Many minor league teams (especially old AAA teams in baseball like the Pacific Coast League) have become major league teams through expansion, but no major league team has ever been relegated down to a lower league because of performance. It is not just how we do things in North America and it never will be. End of debate. Why don't we argue about roofs on stadiums instead.


----------



## eMKay

vanbasten88 said:


> I'm sorry for all the North Americans in this thread that have got their panties into a twist. Nowhere in my statement did I say Pro/rel was highly likely. You guys have given your opinions based on your knowledge and understanding of the prevailing culture in that part of the world as it stands today, but that's all it is. An opinion. If you'd asked an Aussie Rules fan 20 years ago how the game would look in 2012, there's no way a sane person would have predicted what we have now - especially 2 teams in a State(NSW) that still views it as Victorian Rules(or aerial ping pong) and completely foreign.
> 
> All I'm saying is, Never is a powerful word. I wonder how many people told the Wright brothers they'd never fly?
> There exists a slim possibility based on the possibility of growth in the NASL and MLS that one day far into the future some sort of pro/rel system could exist. what form would it take????...buggered if I know, but to rule it out as a never ever based on today's knowledge is just lunacy. Hell there exists a slim possibility that the USA could generate an underclass of working poor who outnumber the middle class and such trifles as organised pro sport for leisure/pleasure are simply placed out of the financial reach of lots of people. We don't know. To say you do know is arrogance of the highest order. :cheers:
> 
> Now, back on topic, hows the Montreal stadium coming along? anybody? will it be ready for its scheduled opening? :cheers:


You still don't get it do you? You compare adopting promotion/relegation to the Wright brothers? As in that it's progress? This is incorrect, now who is being arrogant? Certainly not us. Now can you PLEASE drop this ridiculous subject?


----------



## Topher51

Welkin said:


> Major League Baseball has been around for *143 years*. The National Football League has been around for *92 years*. Professional football in Canada (CFL, IRFU,WIFU) has been around for *120 years*. The National Hockey League has been around for *95 years*. In all this time, none of these leagues have* ever* considered promotion/relegation. I would say that *never* is a pretty good choice of term. It will never happen and over 143 years of history backs that up.
> 
> Our leagues may change through expansion, but they will never change through promotion/relegation. Many minor league teams (especially old AAA teams in baseball like the Pacific Coast League) have become major league teams through expansion, but no major league team has ever been relegated down to a lower league because of performance. It is not just how we do things in North America and it never will be. End of debate. Why don't we argue about roofs on stadiums instead.


A couple of years ago there was talk about MLB adopting a promotion/relegation system, but it didn't go anywhere. I can't find a creditable link, but if I remember correctly, they would have had two-15 team leagues with the top 10 teams playing for two playoff berths and the bottom 5 playing for two promotion berths. All the teams would still play each other, it would just give teams 6-15 something to play for in the later half of the season. As the MLB is set up now, by the all-star break generally 1/3 of the league is out of contention. 

I think something like this could work, but a system like they have in England will not. Too many small market teams depend on the revnue that comes with the Yanks, Mets, Red Sox, Cubs, Dodgers, etc coming to town each year. If your team just played the Royals, Astros, Pirates and Mariners, you wouldn't make enough money to meet payroll.


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^Horse... Dead it is... Stadiums!


----------



## mattec

don't know if this has been posted, but the Pittsburgh Riverhounds of USLpro are building a new stadium that should be opening soon.



> The stadium will seat approximately 3,500 on the south and east sides of the field. The north side of the field will remain open to welcome inward views from a refurbished Riverwalk Trail and outward views of the Pittsburgh skyline.
> 
> Pittsburgh-based research, strategy, and design firm, fathom; fathom completed an “insight journal” using data gathered during personal interviews with soccer fans, soccer families, soccer players, and business owners. The insight journal was used to create a stadium that would meet the visions of its user groups.







































http://www.riverhounds.com/Stadium/index_E.html


EDIT:


----------



## Welkin

Great looking stadium for a USLpro team. I went to an international friendly in Pittsburgh around 10 years ago and Heinz Field was packed, so Pittsburgh is a good soccer market. I'm not to crazy about the team nickname. What is a Riverhound anyway? Thats as bad as the Carolina Railhawks. They sound like minor league baseball team nicknames.


----------



## Darloeye

Nice little ground. Can they build it up IF they became a MLS team. But would have to have another name cos Riverhound sounds lower league level.


----------



## trmather

Looks like it'll be a lovely place to watch a match.


----------



## master_klon

A nice ground and very close to downtown, but I don't like how the main stand can't be expanded in the future (unless a tunnel is built for the road - bit costly though).


----------



## JJG

Darloeye said:


> Nice little ground. Can they build it up IF they became a MLS team.


Judging by the surroundings and that box/building on the right:










Really not too much room to expand.


----------



## master_klon

Update on Saputo Stadium grass:


----------



## hngcm

Darloeye said:


> Can't see owners letting teams getting promotion/relegation system.
> 
> Having seen my local team go down 5 leagues in 3 years its not fun.
> 
> 4 of them was in one day .


Wait what, how did it manage that?

I'm assuming it either got caught cheating or went broke


----------



## master_klon

*Progress at Saputo Stadium since last week* :bow:

Last Week:









Today:









Last Week:









Today:









More pictures by Mpenza (from the interior and exterior of Saputo Stadium)
http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/Mpenza/Stade Saputo vol 6/


----------



## Bobby3

Pittsburgh's stadium will be awesome if it looks like that.


----------



## Topher51

mattec said:


> don't know if this has been posted, but the Pittsburgh Riverhounds of USLpro are building a new stadium that should be opening soon.


I drove by the site two days ago. It is still a parking lot with a fence around it, so it won't be opening this season. I have tried to find a start date online, but haven't had any luck.

I am very much looking forward to attending matches here. I don't think there is any intention of expanding the stadium for an MLS team one day though. Of all the expansion speculation I have read, I haven't seen Pittsburgh mentioned at all.


----------



## Darloeye

hngcm said:


> Wait what, how did it manage that?
> 
> I'm assuming it either got caught cheating or went broke


Yep one of the former owners put the team into adminstion and we lost 10points then after getting relegted to none league we won a trophy at wembley stadium then the other former owner put the team into admin again and we lost 10 points then got relegated to another lower leavel but the fa said we should be relegated 4 leagues lower so need to win 5 promotion to get back into the football league level. But yeah we were broke one of the owners built a 25,000 seat stadium with only 4-5,000 gates at the time. 

Sorry to go offtopic


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## bd popeye

mod delete thanks


----------



## bd popeye

Hey, those fellows are speaking French.^^. I took French in the 11th grade 42 years ago and flunked...

Why did where seats without armrest chosen? Plus there's no cup holders.. Where's a person supposed to put their beer/drink?


----------



## slipperydog

bd popeye said:


> Plus there's no cup holders.. Where's a person supposed to put their beer/drink?


No need. In Canada, you chug your beers.


----------



## master_klon

:cripes: Because they are normal. I don't understand, why can't you put your drinks on the ground?


----------



## steve617

Does anyone know why there seems to be a small square of slightly lighter coloured seats just above the daily countdown number?


----------



## Darloeye

You guys should be happy you can watch soccer and drink alcohol in view of the field !


----------



## bd popeye

master_klon said:


> :cripes: Because they are normal. I don't understand, why can't you put your drinks on the ground?


'Cause they may be kicked over by excited fans.. 

I think the stadium in Montreal looks great. I hope it will be ready for the opening match.


----------



## crazydude

I noticed on the Wiki article for Saputo Stadium that the pitch is 70m wide instead of the 'regular'68m. Is there a reason for this?



Darloeye said:


> You guys should be happy you can watch soccer and drink alcohol in view of the field !


I was surprised by this at the 2010 World Cup. As a South African it's fine to drink in the stands, for the most part.

At the World Cup I saw all these foreigners drinking on the concourses, and couldn't understand why. Only when I asked they said that in Europe you can't drink in the stands.


----------



## vanbasten88

crazydude said:


> I noticed on the Wiki article for Saputo Stadium that the pitch is 70m wide instead of the 'regular'68m. Is there a reason for this?
> 
> 
> 
> I was surprised by this at the 2010 World Cup. As a South African it's fine to drink in the stands, for the most part.
> 
> At the World Cup I saw all these foreigners drinking on the concourses, and couldn't understand why. Only when I asked they said that in Europe you can't drink in the stands.


 I couldn't believe that on my first trip to the UK [the Home of football (TM)] that you couldn't drink a beer while watching the game - only in the concourses
We might have a lower standard of football here in Australia - but we certainly have a few benefits as football fans in this country:
1. we live in Australia
2. Our season is played over summer = shorts weather for football
3. full strength beer while watching the games:cheers:
4. beer showers in the active support areas when my team scores :banana:


----------



## nomarandlee

*Chicago Fire and Bridgeview Stadium*



> http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/watchdog/ct-met-debt-bridgeview-main-20120609,0,3094089.story
> 
> *Tribune Watchdog: Soccer stadium deal kicks Bridgeview taxpayers in the teeth*
> *Political insiders benefit, property taxes nearly triple as village is saddled with millions in debt*
> 
> By Joseph Ryan and Joe Mahr, Chicago Tribune reporters
> 
> 6:52 p.m. CDT, June 9, 2012
> 
> Rising from the rubble of an old industrial site, the 20,000-seat Toyota Park was supposed to put a small suburb on the map.
> 
> Yet the soccer stadium also has become a model of what can go wrong when a little town takes massive development gambles in a state with loose borrowing and ethics laws: Politicians and insiders benefit, while taxpayers are stuck covering budget-busting losses.
> 
> The blue-collar suburb of Bridgeview now suffers under the highest rate of debt in the Chicago region, a Tribune analysis of thousands of pages of state and local records found.
> 
> To help make its payments, the village has nearly tripled the Bridgeview property tax bill in less than a decade for the town's mostly modest ranch homes and plans to boost that burden far higher.
> 
> The hulking, red-brick Toyota Park rises impressively from the side of gritty Harlem Avenue, its canopies jutting into the sky. The village-owned stadium is not only home to the Chicago Fire, but also hosts major music shows.
> 
> And since opening in 2006, it has come up millions of dollars short of making its huge debt payments. The yearly shortfalls are sometimes as big as the town's annual police budget, and they've helped sink the southwest suburb's credit rating to among the Chicago area's worst.
> 
> Still, not everyone in town is losing.
> 
> The big borrowing created a torrent of cash that, in part, went to companies tied to high-level village employees, the town leaders' political supporters and even companies linked to the mayor's family...........
> 
> Bridgeview's story is a sobering reminder for taxpayers across the Chicago region, most of whom live in towns that have almost unlimited power to borrow and tax without voter approval. When ambitious ventures fall flat, generations of taxpayers may pay the price.........
> 
> Village officials at first said the town would borrow up to $55 million to pay for most, but not all, of the stadium, and investors would assume much of the risk if the stadium didn't make money.
> 
> But then the town borrowed more than $100 million, to pay for the entire stadium, and put taxpayers directly on the hook if it didn't turn a profit. And turning a profit would be harder: The final deal called for much of the revenue from soccer games to go to the Chicago Fire............
> 
> The fundraiser was among a host of far higher-profile events, from packed rock concerts to Fire games, that have become fodder for town leaders' news releases while sending millions into village coffers.
> 
> Problem is, the town owes millions more on the debt.
> 
> Buried deep in Bridgeview's financial records are acknowledgments that the stadium has never made enough money to cover its loan payments.
> 
> Village officials say the stadium has come up about $11.5 million short of making its debt payments from opening day in 2006 to 2010. A Tribune analysis of the village's audited financial reports shows the shortfall could actually be more than double that amount, depending on which expenses and debt payments are attributed to Toyota Park..........
> 
> Today Bridgeview is suffocating under nearly a quarter of a billion dollars in debt.
> 
> All of it was borrowed in ways that require taxpayers to pay it back — even if the projects go south. The Tribune analyzed such "general obligation" loans for each Chicago-area town and compared them to property values, a common way to measure a town's debt load. Bridgeview leads the region, with 11 times the debt rate of the average town...........
> 
> Records show the stadium lost money even before the recession began. It has lost money, year after year, despite often hitting broad benchmarks that were originally touted as a baseline for breaking even: a soccer team, four international soccer events and four concerts a year.........


...


----------



## Darloeye

vanbasten88 said:


> I couldn't believe that on my first trip to the UK [the Home of football (TM)] that you couldn't drink a beer while watching the game - only in the concourses
> We might have a lower standard of football here in Australia - but we certainly have a few benefits as football fans in this country:
> 1. we live in Australia
> 2. Our season is played over summer = shorts weather for football
> 3. full strength beer while watching the games:cheers:
> 4. beer showers in the active support areas when my team scores :banana:


1: hno:
2: Aint the summer months in oz really their winter ?
3: Meh You're lagar is awful anyway, What level is full strength in oz?
4: You don't know how much it costs to buy at stadiums in the uk. 

Please use "Soccer". :cheers:


----------



## mgk920

nomarandlee said:


> ...


I have always thought that to be an odd location for such a facility.

Seeing as that *is* in Illinois, I should definitely trust my instincts.

Mike


----------



## nomarandlee

Well the thinking was with some justification that it would be a great location to pull from the far West Side and inner West burbs which have a large Latino/Mexican and Middle Eastern population base.

Unfortunately I don't think ended up as a great location. It isn't near any mass transit and it doesn't feel extremely convenient to get from the highway even. Much of the neighborhood land around it is either industry, airport, cemeteries, or rail yards. Even though its not a far off burb it is in a bit of a no mans land.

Somewhere near downtown Chicago or Arlington Heights (by the race track) would have been a better location.


----------



## vanbasten88

Darloeye said:


> 1: hno: I'm proud of my country and the rivalry in Sport between our countries, especially the Poms - if its so bad here why do so many poms come and never leave? Bondi should be serviced by Royal Mail not Australia Post
> Time for you to either lighten up or GFY! :bash:
> 2: Aint the summer months in oz really their winter ? Our A-League season is played in the northern hemisphere winter = our summer(Oct-Apr) that way our internationals are free and in form for games. As an added benefit we (A-League) only then compete with cricket for column inches avoiding the suffocating media of the more popular ball sports in Australia: Aussie Rules and Rugby League. The world football calendar is mostly aligned that way. MLS is a notable hold out. I can only imagine because January in VAN/NYC/Toronto/MTL/DC etc would not be conducive to lots of people attending or having grass that isn't iced over and also because of dominant other sports.
> 3: Meh You're lagar is awful anyway, What level is full strength in oz? - no accounting for personal taste I guess I prefer our ales, specifically www.coopers.com.au. Oz full strength beer is generally between 4-6% alcohol By volume.
> 4: You don't know how much it costs to buy at stadiums in the uk. No I don't, but that doesn't affect our usage of beer showers, still got to go and get another one after a goal. A$6 a pop, but hey there''s nothing like the feeling of witnessing your team score a well taken goal Why not go a little crazy?
> 
> 
> Please use "Soccer". :cheers:


Educate yourself, whilst a widely used term in NA, this is a global board and not everybody uses Soccer. Soccer is a nickname that lends itself to our national team the Socceroos, but The official body in charge of the game in Australia is Football Federation of Australia, even the Kiwis are NZ Football now. :cheers::cheers:http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/
http://www.nzfootball.co.nz/


----------



## master_klon

^^ He was just making a joke, so shut-up. 



vanbasten88 said:


> 4. beer showers in the active support areas when my team scores :banana:


It's alright because your team hardly ever scores


----------



## mgk920

82K at Met Life Stadium in the Meadowlands (East Rutherford, New Jersey, USA) for the Argentina-Brasil 'friendly' on Sunday, 2012-06-10! (Argentina 4 - 3 Brasil)

:shocked:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/06/10/argentina-give-nj-fans-thrill-win-over-brazil

Mike


----------



## matthemod

Quick Question, considering that the Euro's are going on is it right to assume that the MLS takes a bit of a mid-season break to compensate for so many of their players heading off to participate?


----------



## mattec

how many of their players are from Europe & if they are, actually play for their national team?


----------



## Scoots71

matthemod said:


> Quick Question, considering that the Euro's are going on is it right to assume that the MLS takes a bit of a mid-season break to compensate for so many of their players heading off to participate?


No break for the MLS. They really don't have that many European internationals playing in the league. Robbie Keane with LA is one of the very few I can think of.


----------



## JYDA

Scoots71 said:


> No break for the MLS. They really don't have that many European internationals playing in the league. Robbie Keane with LA is one of the very few I can think of.


The MLS is on break right now but not really because of the Euro. It's because of the international dates. World Cup qualifying is going on all over the world right now except for europe. A lot of MLS players are involved in this.


----------



## matthemod

Thanks for the info, I have to admit the first player that really came to mind was Robbie Keane and shame on me for assuming there were more!


----------



## Otto Racecar

MLS has a ton of central and south american players but really not alot of europeans.Some of the reasons include the US exchange rate being much more favorable towards acquisitions of players in those countries as well as the mls's policy of parity in which it does not encourage teams to get into spending wars or spending tons of money that it would take to bring the european stars over.It also makes alot more sense currently to bring in a young player from south america for 500,000 then a 34 yr old european for 3 million. The perception of the mls in europe seems to need improvement as well in that there are cases in which european players have declined mls contracts for more money to stay and play in europe because they feel the quality is better.(in the cases I am referring to I tend to disagree)Central and South American players don't seem to have those hangups as much possibly because they have much more contact with mls teams and players.As an example my favorite team Columbus currently has 10 central and south americans and only 2 europeans on their roster.I think you will see more and more Europeans in the future mls with the growth of the league. In a bit of irony a weakened euro hurts the American economy in alot of ways but actually potentially benefits mls in its acquisition process.


----------



## Otto Racecar

Here's a very interesting article discussing the matter I just posted about. http://www.totalfootballmag.com/oth...yers-at-euro-2012-a-question-of-pr-not-talent


----------



## master_klon

They removed the old "Impact" lettering from the seats. Still haven't replaced the section of grey though.


----------



## master_klon

*Quakes announce addition of club seats to new stadium*








The San Jose Earthquakes announced Tuesday that the team has added club seats and patio suites to the team’s new stadium that will be located at Coleman Ave. in San Jose, Calif. The 576 club seats represent the first tickets available for purchase at the new stadium. The Earthquakes also announced that the team has sold all 12 luxury suites in the stadium and has started a waiting list for the luxury suites.

“We are proud to add club seats and patio suites to our new stadium,” said Earthquakes President Dave Kaval. “Our club seats offer fans a viewing experience unlike any other in professional sports, in addition to creating a real community feel in the hospitality area. We are also pleased to offer these seats at a very affordable price without personal seat licenses.”

The 576 club seats are all located at field level and will not require personal seat licenses. Club seat holders will enjoy larger seats, access to a private VIP lounge, private food and beverage service just behind their seats, invitations to all team VIP events and a commemorative gift.

Current season ticket holders will have first priority to purchase club seats at the new stadium and will receive information in the mail from the club this week. Non-season ticket holders may place a deposit beginning today at sjearthquakes.com to position themselves behind current season ticket holders in the queue. The season ticket holder priority order will be based on tenure as a season ticket holder.

With a waiting list for the luxury suites, the Earthquakes also announced that a limited number of patio suites are now available for purchase. The patio suites include 23 game tickets, larger, plush seats within feet of the field, a private lounge, VIP parking, invitations to all Earthquakes VIP events and a VIP entrance.


----------



## will101

This is very good news. But I wish that there were some actual diagrams floating around. The "12 luxury suites" makes no sense. They show more than that in the above illustration.


----------



## Benn

^^ Go to their website, they have drawings explaining all of their premium seating as well as general layout. There are six suites at the center of either sideline and the club seating down the lines and patio suites past that. They are apperently talking about a small standing room only area in the first level of the closed end. 

I am really starting to like this one, especially considering the budget.


http://www.sjearthquakes.com/newstadium


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

Benn said:


> ^^ Go to their website, they have drawings explaining all of their premium seating as well as general layout. There are six suites at the center of either sideline and the club seating down the lines and patio suites past that. They are apperently talking about a small standing room only area in the first level of the closed end.
> 
> I am really starting to like this one, especially considering the budget.
> 
> 
> http://www.sjearthquakes.com/newstadium


I think the patio suites are just the open patio/lounge area behind the club seats. You can see the area on the website behind the club seats. They don't have actual field level seats, just couches and such.


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^All well and good, but when do we get to see shovels in the ground?


----------



## MegasAlexandros

Saputo Stadium as tweeted by Zarek Valentin:


----------



## SF1977

BoulderGrad said:


> ^^All well and good, but when do we get to see shovels in the ground?


The site has been cleared, but ground hasn't been broken. The Quakes are still saying "by the end of the year".


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

MegasAlexandros said:


> Saputo Stadium as tweeted by Zarek Valentin:


What's with the open end? The stadium is supposed to open in 3 days, and it looks like the whole upper half is incomplete. Is the roof going to continue around that side, or is that end going to be sans roof?


----------



## BoulderGrad

ElDudarinodotcom said:


> What's with the open end? The stadium is supposed to open in 3 days, and it looks like the whole upper half is incomplete. Is the roof going to continue around that side, or is that end going to be sans roof?


They made mention of that in a few of the articles. There's about 900 seats that will not be ready for the opening game. Eventually the roof and boxes will stretch all the way around. But for now we'll have a bit of a gap.


----------



## The Game Is Up

This is going to be interesting. No doubt there will be problems with crowd circulation. Hey, Rome wasn't built in one day and neither can MLS.


----------



## Benn

ElDudarinodotcom said:


> I think the patio suites are just the open patio/lounge area behind the club seats. You can see the area on the website behind the club seats. They don't have actual field level seats, just couches and such.


According to their website the patio suites are along the last sections towards the open end and are 23 seat suites, adjacent to but not the club area. I would think of these as "event suites" or "party suites" that are often seen in other pro venues, a handful of larger suites (4 it would seem) intended for single game rentals rather than multi-year contract executive suites. They appear to be individual sections of what would be a club sector but are definitely distinct from the four club areas.


----------



## master_klon

BoulderGrad said:


> They made mention of that in a few of the articles. There's about 900 seats that will not be ready for the opening game. Eventually the roof and boxes will stretch all the way around. But for now we'll have a bit of a gap.


That's right, only for a few games. The boxes will be only across the sidelines, but if there is demand for more they will make boxes behind the goals as well. At the moment I think the space behind the goals might be available for groups?

Positive comments from the coach/players about the stadium and grass: http://www.impactmontreal.com/en/ne...ited-play-grass-surface-stade-saputo-saturday




























Their new DP, Marco Di Vaio, has turned up to training a few days early:










Good times in Montreal :cheers:


----------



## master_klon

Pictures from today on progress of the east grandstand. Thanks to Mpenza for all the updates on the stadium upgrade. :cheers: 



















More pictures from Volume 7: http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/Mpenza/Stade Saputo vol 7/


----------



## GunnerJacket

Re: Stade Saputo
A shame they won't be complete before the opener but this will indeed be another nice asset for the league. Plus it will be unique compared to most conventional MLS venues, for now. Why did they remove the "Impact" lettering on the seats again?

Re: San Jose
Am I the only one feeling leary about having the premium seating at what appears to be just above field level? Not only would I prefer something higher up myself but I'm trying to see how this plays out regarding the concession areas for that market. Won't those areas feel more compressed and subject to a lot more utility space?


----------



## ChesterCopperpot

GunnerJacket said:


> Re: San Jose
> Am I the only one feeling leary about having the premium seating at what appears to be just above field level? Not only would I prefer something higher up myself but I'm trying to see how this plays out regarding the concession areas for that market. Won't those areas feel more compressed and subject to a lot more utility space?


Cowboy Stadium has premium seating at that level as well


----------



## carnifex2005

koolio said:


> LOL @ the mafia operated construction in Quebec. This must be the first time in MLS where an already delayed stadium opens incomplete.


For $40 million dollars in total, it should be expected because no one is getting overtime on this project. Good for Saputo for getting a 20k stadium done at that cost even with the delay.


----------



## Otto Racecar

matthemod said:


> I think what is interesting about the Columbus situation, is they were the pioneer's of the necessity for a Soccer Specific Stadium when most others were lounging around in cavernous NFL stadiums, and showed how much of a requirement having a dedicated stadium can influence their fledgling support.
> 
> Yet now, it is being considered out of date! That's progress right there.


Yeah you're exactly right. The frustrating thing is that it seems like supporters of the newer squads seem to use the stadium as a reason to want columbus out of the league and fail to realize that the crew were the pioneers of the situation and went through the "new stadium excitement" 12 years ago. I guess if the crew had waited another 10 years to build a stadium and kept playing in ohio stadium then maybe the perception would be different. Crew attendance suffers a little from this as well. I think a casual observer in columbus who didn't follow mls would be suprised to see whats happened in the league since the stadium was built. I get into discussions all the time with EPL supporters in columbus who are amazed when I show them pics of the new stadiums which in turn has changed their perception of the league as a whole. ESPN also hurts the perception but thats a different story and soap box for another day.


----------



## MicroX

Otto Racecar said:


> Yeah you're exactly right. The frustrating thing is that it seems like supporters of the newer squads seem to use the stadium as a reason to want columbus out of the league and fail to realize that the crew were the pioneers of the situation and went through the "new stadium excitement" 12 years ago. I guess if the crew had waited another 10 years to build a stadium and kept playing in ohio stadium then maybe the perception would be different. Crew attendance suffers a little from this as well. I think a casual observer in columbus who didn't follow mls would be suprised to see whats happened in the league since the stadium was built. I get into discussions all the time with EPL supporters in columbus who are amazed when I show them pics of the new stadiums which in turn has changed their perception of the league as a whole. ESPN also hurts the perception but thats a different story and soap box for another day.


They want Columbus out of the league because their stadium is too old?


----------



## Otto Racecar

MicroX said:


> They want Columbus out of the league because their stadium is too old?


oh yeah, I've heard it all about crap facilities.Columbus doesn't deserve a team, look at their stadium.Columbus is too small,can't even afford proper facilities etc.etc. Generally from one specific teams fans who will remain nameless although other new clubs supporters like to make that type of analogy as well although not as much. Never really hear anything from the original clubs supporter groups. oh well!:cheers:


----------



## MS20

GunnerJacket said:


> Last point: MLS is relevant. It's no where close to the big four sports here but it is now resonating with the local fabric. We're experiencing the first generation of US youth who've grown up always having a local league to watch, aspire for and to support, and the US as a populace is now more intrinsically aware of the sport and many of its brands due to modern media. Now even other nations and their players are watching and considering playing for MLS.
> 
> It's never going to be the NFL, but it's hardly irrelevant.


My use of relevance was a bit strong. I was using it in the most traditional sense (media coverage/ratings/attendance). 2 of those 3 factors the league still needs to improve markedly. TV ratings I don't need to expound on. Media is becoming very fragmented, so its difficult to quantify just how relevant/irrelevant it is. If you're an MLS fan in Alabama, the local Birmingham paper is probably not giving much coverage to the league. At the same time, how much coverage is the local San Antonio paper giving to the NHL? 

Its well on its way to relevance, but I'm not sure its there yet. Soccer, on the whole, is a different beast. The sport is much further along, and Garber will tell anyone who listens that a key strategy is getting the zealots to follow MLS. 



Otto Racecar said:


> Columbus's main attendance issue is stadium location. The stadium is....


Interesting. Thanks for that. 



matthemod said:


> I think what is interesting about the Columbus situation, is they were the pioneer's of the necessity for a Soccer Specific Stadium when most others were lounging around in cavernous NFL stadiums, and showed how much of a requirement having a dedicated stadium can influence their fledgling support.
> 
> Yet now, it is being considered out of date! That's progress right there.


Thats a fair point. 



Otto Racecar said:


> oh yeah, I've heard it all about crap facilities.Columbus doesn't deserve a team, look at their stadium.Columbus is too small,can't even afford proper facilities etc.etc. Generally from one specific teams fans who will remain nameless although other new clubs supporters like to make that type of analogy as well although not as much. Never really hear anything from the original clubs supporter groups. oh well!:cheers:


That type of rhetoric was very strong with KC Wizards some years back. Now, its unfathomable to think of SKC not being around. So you're right in that it applies to all other clubs(outside of Chivas). And Crew aren't really in a shape as bad as Kansas were back then I think. Still, it doesnt stop supporters fretting about "problem" clubs, however shortsighted it may be.


----------



## Topher51

Supposedly, construction is to begin on the Pittsburgh Riverhounds' new stadium this month with a fall completion. 

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...n-on-new-riverhounds-stadium-to-start-640594/

I walked by the site an hour ago and there are still no equipment or materials there, but hopefully that will change soon.


----------



## ihav3nofri3ndzz

personally I think a lot of the problem is how people perceive the MLS. Most people I talk to simply just say it "isn't good soccer. The players/teams are nowhere near the caliber of European teams." I tend to agree to an extent, but I think a lot of people might be surprised at how well some MLS teams might be able to do. Probably never win the EPL, but might at least be able to not get relegated, or at worst some would just be the typical team that's going up to the EPL 1 year, then back down the next. I think it's all in people's heads though. When most people were growing up the MLS either, wasn't the MLS yet, or just wasn't at the level it is today and they've kept that mentality even though it has gotten better. Much like in college football there are teams from the "BCS" school (EPL), and then teams that aren't (MLS). People have the idea that a non 'major' team can never ever compete with a major team period, which is simply untrue. I think the MLS has just had a bad reputation and it's hard for it to get on the good side.

I wish ESPN or some other major network would show multiple MLS games a week. You can't tell me ESPN is showing anything better most of the time to only be able to have 1 game on a week. Really? It's pretty sad IMO.

One of the ways I've explained it to some people, and I could totally be wrong, was that the MLS CAN be a 'major' league in the world, if people in America would let it, but some people seem so against it that it'll never happen. People refuse to support the MLS but will gladly support the EPL or other European leagues. Of course the MLS can't grow without support. Teams need money for better players, better players makes the league better which ups attendance and attracts more good players which makes the league better. Or I suppose the league could get that 1 team that is willing to pay $20mil to several players a year. That could help kick start the league into being more attractive.

I know this debate has been on here before, but I think MLS could benefit from the relegation system. It'll never happen, at least certainly not any time soon, but that's just my opinion.


----------



## krudmonk

ihav3nofri3ndzz said:


> personally I think a lot of the problem is how people perceive the MLS. Most people I talk to simply just say it "isn't good soccer. The players/teams are nowhere near the caliber of European teams."


It's the fallback copout for people trying to act like they know more about soccer than they actually do. That mental laziness will last longer than the actual disparity.


----------



## bd popeye

> I wish ESPN or some other major network would show multiple MLS games a week. You can't tell me ESPN is showing anything better most of the time to only be able to have 1 game on a week. Really? It's pretty sad IMO.


I worked in the TV/movie biz for about 18 months and it's real simple why more MLS games are not on TV..

1) Abysmal Tv ratings. Period.
2) Lack of commercial sponsors because of those poor Tv ratings.. 

In other words ESPN & others cannot make money with MSL broadcast. They just can't. No one is in business for nothing. And that's the bottom line.


----------



## ihav3nofri3ndzz

bd popeye said:


> I worked in the TV/movie biz for about 18 months and it's real simple why more MLS games are not on TV..
> 
> 1) Abysmal Tv ratings. Period.
> 2) Lack of commercial sponsors because of those poor Tv ratings..
> 
> In other words ESPN & others cannot make money with MSL broadcast. They just can't. No one is in business for nothing. And that's the bottom line.


I figured as much, but have you seen some of the things they have on there? Pool? Poker for hours and hours? Those aren't even sports!

plus speaking of advertising, there is just simply less advertising in soccer broadcasts as well. There aren't commercials every 5-7 minutes or less.


----------



## bd popeye

ihav3nofri3ndzz said:


> I figured as much, but have you seen some of the things they have on there? Pool? Poker for hours and hours? Those aren't even sports!


I understand, I've not had cable Tv for about 18 months. I just get my sports fix on line from ESPN. There must be some ratings for ESPN junk programming..enough to sell to commercial spots to sponsors.



ihav3nofri3ndzz said:


> plus speaking of advertising, there is just simply less advertising in soccer broadcasts as well. There aren't commercials every 5-7 minutes or less.


Exactly^^ Tv producers are interested in one thing..making money. they can't make money with fewer commercials.


----------



## GunnerJacket

ihav3nofri3ndzz said:


> I figured as much, but have you seen some of the things they have on there? Pool? Poker for hours and hours? Those aren't even sports!


But much of that stuff is on when MLS isn't interested in playing. It doesn't help MLS that it's competing almost directly for the same fans for gameday attendance, and the same prime viewing slots as other major sports. (MLB, NBA and NHL playoffs, etc.)

MLS isn't complaining too much, though. Securing the attendance and the TV exposure is more important than the TV revenues, but the first two are more critical in growing the fan base in the long run. So even though they're not on ESPN all the time or at the best times, more games are available than ever before and more often than not the viewership appeal is decent because of the better crowds.


----------



## MS20

All that is required is patience. Not only will MLS be one of the biggest leagues in the US, itll be one of the best leagues in the world. 

Btw, amazing tifo at Jeld Wen today. Portland one upping the Sounders. Rocking atmosphere, not a bad game either.


----------



## MicroX

MS20 said:


> All that is required is patience. Not only will MLS be one of the biggest leagues in the US, itll be one of the best leagues in the world.
> 
> Btw, amazing tifo at Jeld Wen today. Portland one upping the Sounders. Rocking atmosphere, not a bad game either.


A little too optimistic.

It could've been big if the first game of "football" in North America remained true to association football in later editions and the NFL might've been a soccer league.


----------



## The Game Is Up

It is what it is. The league is what the fans and players make of it. It's also a lot of fun in which you never know what the result is going to be before the first whistle. 

More games like yesterday's NYRB-DCU match mean the league is more fun to watch.


----------



## MS20

MicroX said:


> A little too optimistic.
> 
> It could've been big if the first game of "football" in North America remained true to association football in later editions and the NFL might've been a soccer league.


Not optimistic at all. It will be one of the best soccer leagues in the world. I don't know how old you are, but I'm fairly young and I have no question, health permitting, that I will see MLS as a top 5 league in the world by the time I reach my 50s in 2040. There are too many elements in the US/Can that other markets can only dream of. Even today there are obvious signs that its well on its way. Compare MLS in 2012 to MLS in 2002. Then try and imagine MLS 2012 vs MLS 2022/2032/2042. Its going to be unrecognizable, just like the league, and soccer as a whole in the US, is unrecognizable from the one it was in 2002. 

The Rutgers thing: Remember too that if the US took to the round ball game when the colleges were arguing about what to play we may have today a competitor to soccer much in the same way that rugby union and rugby league are competitors. There is every chance that the US would have refined the game, where we'd have two different variations on the same thing. That would have been much worse for soccer than gridirion's development.


----------



## MS20

The Game Is Up said:


> It is what it is. The league is what the fans and players make of it. It's also a lot of fun in which you never know what the result is going to be before the first whistle.
> 
> More games like yesterday's NYRB-DCU match mean the league is more fun to watch.


Why is RBA fuller than usual? 

NY-DC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaGjijs6-1A
POR-SEA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmwOOXjlBWM&feature=relmfu

You watch stuff like that this weekend and its just so obvious that MLS is going to explode in the future. I'm sure the ratings were crap, but still, baby steps.


----------



## The Game Is Up

MS20 said:


> The Rutgers thing: Remember too that if the US took to the round ball game when the colleges were arguing about what to play we may have today a competitor to soccer much in the same way that rugby union and rugby league are competitors. There is every chance that the US would have refined the game, where we'd have two different variations on the same thing. That would have been much worse for soccer than gridirion's development.


Well, keep in mind that in those days the US had just begun to recover from the Civil War. Meanwhile, the European empires were reaching their zenith. The notion of American exceptionalism came as a reaction to the ambitions of the European powers. When it became apparent that association football was being adopted as a sport for the masses in industrial Europe, the American sporting elites had to find a different mass market sport that would keep the American people's attention. Baseball became that sport, starting from the late 1800s and lasting through the 1970s. Then again, horse racing and boxing were much more followed then than now. Things can change and in ways we could not predict. 

The more important question is how they came to the conclusion that there would be an innovation of rugby rules football, which is where American football emerged from. I haven't looked into that but I think they must have thought that rugby wasn't tough enough and then proceeded to create a more brutal game. It wasn't long before padding was introduced to deal with the consequences. Then the forward pass was accepted as within the rules of the game. Even then, there still is that all important detail of the sporting elites having an entire market all to themselves to manipulate and influence without much interference on the part of European powers, in the days before the Internet and satellite TV (of course, Canada decided to adopt hockey as their national sport, but that's a different topic).

There was a soccer league called the ASL that played in the 1920s and lasted until the Great Depression. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Soccer_League#ASL_I

Nobody knows it existed today but it was the league that had teams such as the legendary Bethlehem Steel F.C.

So association football has always had a presence, even though its history is filled with defunct leagues and a small footprint, where volunteers and true believers keep the flame alive, sort to speak. Still, I know that it's a nice alternative theory about an actual "American" soccer that could have developed but I doubt it would have come to much. The old NASL and the early days of MLS had "innovations" to what we know as soccer, with the shootouts and the countdown clock but MLS was forced to abandon those two when they realized that the hardcore fan already accepted ties and the countup clock. The NCAA still uses the countdown clock, though.

Anyway, we've gotten way off topic, so I'll just say this: how full is RBA depends mainly on weather, opponent and date. Put all three together and you get what happened yesterday.


----------



## bd popeye

> The NCAA still uses the countdown clock, though.


Huh? do you mean like in American Football or basketball. A clock that count downs the time instead of progressing to the 90 minute mark?

Tie's? Ties suck in my opinion. Why can't a side win the game?


----------



## GunnerJacket

MS20 said:


> All that is required is patience. Not only will MLS be one of the biggest leagues in the US, itll be one of the best leagues in the world.


Many people agree that MLS will be among the bigger leagues in the world, but in context that's not as difficult a thing to do. Granted, this isn't to say they'll breach the top 10, let alone the top 5, leagues in terms of economic clout and support, but they're already on the cusp of surpassing established leagues from smaller nations like Scotland, Greece and Colombia. The catch is that many of the same forces working for MLS are also now being exploited in China, Russia and up and coming Arab states. So while MLS will indeed move up the ladder, it will become very congested among the second and third tier of leagues immediately behind the western European powers, Argentina and Brazil.

As for in the US, that's another story. MLS is already arguably the 5th best team sport league going, which isn't saying much because anything behind them is something like Major League Lacrosse. The consensus among pundits is that MLS can someday match the NHL as a powerful niche sport, but is a loooong way from considering standing alongside the MLB, NBA and NFL. IMO, the best thing an MLS fan can do is set aside assumptions that it someday has to match those leagues and just keep concentrating on being the best it can be. Heaven knows, MLS is Nirvana compared to the nadir of NASL days.


----------



## GunnerJacket

bd popeye said:


> Tie's? Ties suck in my opinion. Why can't a side win the game?


Meh, it's okay for regular league game. I can't imagine how much extra play some bodies would need to endure if ties weren't permitted. And I can't always afford to stay another 30-45 minutes for any old match.

Besides, if even track and field events can feature ties...


----------



## kerouac1848

JJG said:


> ... "artifical"?
> 
> I don't understand that.


If a game finishes in a draw even after some extra allocated time there exists a method of determining a winner which differs from regular play (e.g. shootouts in football and hockey, drawing lots, etc), therefore it is 'artificial' because a winner hasn't been decided by the normal play of the game, a different instrument has done that. In league matches I personally don't see the need given it's about point accumulation within a fixed number of games for all sides. 

I probably should have put some inverted commas since time allocation in sport is essentially artificial in the sense it's designed and not natural.


----------



## Otto Racecar

JJG said:


> Not accepted by the fans.


Yeah I'm sure there were people who wished their would be a clear winner but overall their was never any sort of groundswell of support by any official fan movement to eliminate ties in the ncaa hence the amount of time it took to actually eliminate them. The major reason why they were eliminated in the first place wasn't because of outraged fans but by most accounts tv executives who felt that it would be much better tv for the bowl alliance.


----------



## JJG

kerouac1848 said:


> If a game finishes in a draw even after some extra allocated time there exists a method of determining a winner which differs from regular play (e.g. shootouts in football and hockey, drawing lots, etc), therefore it is 'artificial' because a winner hasn't been decided by the normal play of the game, a different instrument has done that. In league matches I personally don't see the need given it's about point accumulation within a fixed number of games for all sides.
> 
> I probably should have put some inverted commas since time allocation in sport is essentially artificial in the sense it's designed and not natural.



Ah, ok, I get it. 

I guess the reason why I don't see it as "artificial" is because we typically view any extra time, shootouts, and anything else after the regulation time as just part of that game.


----------



## matthemod

In my experience of the US College Soccer system, most of the hardcore fans (of which there was a sizeable chunk) hated the run down clock and forced Overtime when it ended in a draw, many saying it ruined the integrity of the game. Granted most of these fans were also "Eurosnobs", but to say it's an entire culture who hate sporting ties is over-generalising.


----------



## JJG

matthemod said:


> In my experience of the US College Soccer system, most of the hardcore fans (of which there was a sizeable chunk) hated the run down clock and forced Overtime when it ended in a draw, many saying it ruined the integrity of the game. Granted most of these fans were also "Eurosnobs", *but to say it's an entire culture who hate sporting ties is over-generalising*.


Don't see it that way. 

Texas, Louisiana, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, New York, CANADA. I've been to those places and known/met people from those places. The reaction I get to ties in ANY sport is typcially negative.


----------



## Zmork

JJG said:


> Ah, ok, I get it.
> 
> I guess the reason why I don't see it as "artificial" is because we typically view any extra time, shootouts, and anything else after the regulation time as just part of that game.


Deleting ties is just insane, ties are an essential part of football.


----------



## JJG

Zmork said:


> Deleting ties is just insane, ties are an essential part of football.


WORLD football, maybe...

Besides, I don't think anyone here is saying that we _should _get rid of ties in soccer. Just saying it's not all that accepted in America, and it's not just with sports, either.


----------



## Rev Stickleback

Welkin said:


> I understand some of what you are saying and I don't think it is very likely to happen anytime in the near future. However, one day these billionaire owners are going to wake up and realize the potential gold mine (even bigger than todays gold mine) at their feet and some sort of Super League will be formed. The EPL and other leagues are trying to build global brands (Manchester United is one of the biggest global brands) and capture the growing TV/cable markets throughout Asia and other developing areas. They will realize that no one in Beijing will spend a dime to watch Blackpool vs Bolton but will pay dearly for a service that brings them Manchester United vs Real Madrid. High level sports are becoming a global commodity and there are $billions and$billions to be made. The Russian Billionaire that owns Chelsea, the American billionaire that owns Manchester United and the American billionaire that owns Arsenal have no real ties to England or the EPL. Don't be surprised if one day they wake up and realize the billions their teams could be making if they played on the world stage and not wasting their time playing down in Swansea.


Yet college football, which is quite unbalanced and doesn't have the biggest teams all playing each other, or even a national championship, is arguably the most popular sport going.

Why isn't there an single nationwide college championship featuring just the biggest colleges?



The euro super league idea also overlooks the fact that even now, domestic revenue is the big provider. It's also often not appreciated how insular in its viewing habits each european nation is - the bigger nations especially. People in England don't really care about Milan v Inter or even Barcelona v Real Madrid. The same is true elsewhere. The Spanish watch Spanish football. The Germans watch German football. The Italians watch Italian football.

Europe is not like the USA. There is no mainstream European culture. TV channels do not (deliberately) broadcast across Europe. You can't (generally) turn on the tv in Madrid and watch the same tv as people in Munich. And football fans, on the whole, aren't really all that interested in football matches not involving teams from their country.


It also neglects the consider just how much the big clubs get from being a big fish year on year. How does Arsenal "grow the brand" in Asia if they become just an average club in the superleague? Just as now, those foreign fans are going to be attracted to the winners, not the also rans.


----------



## ihav3nofri3ndzz

JJG said:


> WORLD football, maybe...
> 
> Besides, I don't think anyone here is saying that we _should _get rid of ties in soccer. Just saying it's not all that accepted in America, and it's not just with sports, either.


I think in America more people are more upset/confused by the fact that it can tie 0-0. no one even scores. It's boring to Americans. Even a 1-0 game is boring to a lot of people. I'm sure if a goal were worth more points somehow people would see it as more exciting, even if less were scored. Which, I find it funny that Americans complain about the amount of goals/pts whatever in soccer, yet Arena Football scores more than any other football and struggles as a league. I guess the NFL's 4 field goals and 1 touchdown system is much more appreciated. It's like the oatmeal from that kid's thing. not too little, not too much, just the right amount. I find the NFL to be far more boring than soccer. Certainly in different ways than soccer may be boring, but it's all just a preference.


----------



## master-chivas

^^^^

I find both sports awesome! I love watching "soccer" and I love playing American Football... You have to try it cuz watching it a nd playing it isn't the same thing at all!  Still I gotta admit that arena football thing is bullshit and it's really boring even with tons of touchdowns.


----------



## ihav3nofri3ndzz

master-chivas said:


> ^^^^
> 
> I find both sports awesome! I love watching "soccer" and I love playing American Football... You have to try it cuz watching it a nd playing it isn't the same thing at all!  Still I gotta admit that arena football thing is bullshit and it's really boring even with tons of touchdowns.


Oh i'm a big fan of 'american' football. Just not the NFL. I used to play when I was younger. Never played soccer but I know plenty of people that did/do. When I was younger my school was pretty good at it, even had over a thousand at a game or two, which, trust me, for high school soccer is A LOT of people.

Arena football is just totally different. I was just using the scoring analogy. People want more, but they get more and are still not interested. That's why they changed some rules in the NHL right? to increase scoring and make the game go a little faster? I don't really follow NHL.


----------



## carnifex2005

JJG said:


> WORLD football, maybe...
> 
> Besides, I don't think anyone here is saying that we _should _get rid of ties in soccer. Just saying it's not all that accepted in America, and it's not just with sports, either.


Ties are essential to North American soccer. MLS had shootouts to solve ties and no injury time and people railed against it because it wasn't authentic football. The MLS realized the mistake and changed all the rules to be just like the rest of the world. That was about 10 years ago.


----------



## matthemod

JJG said:


> Don't see it that way.
> 
> Texas, Louisiana, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, New York, CANADA. I've been to those places and known/met people from those places. The reaction I get to ties in ANY sport is typcially negative.


So because you've met a select group of people, that's representative of an entire culture, yet you choose to exclude the American's I mentioned in my post? 

Are they not "Real" Americans because they don't mind ties?


----------



## El Mariachi

I don't like the idea of a draw/tie when you can easily have extra time or a shootout in soccer. A shootout is probably the most exciting part of a soccer match, as evidenced by England-Italy yesterday. It doesn't make sense to send the fans on their way with that available. I also think a draw makes teams play too defensive and boring. I understand why they do it but it doesn't exactly make for good t.v. 

Americans will never get behind a system that allows a draw. People grew up here with the excitement of extra innings in baseball and overtime in football/basketball.


----------



## carnifex2005

El Mariachi said:


> I don't like the idea of a draw/tie when you can easily have extra time or a shootout in soccer. A shootout is probably the most exciting part of a soccer match, as evidenced by England-Italy yesterday. It doesn't make sense to send the fans on their way with that available. I also think a draw makes teams play too defensive and boring. I understand why they do it but it doesn't exactly make for good t.v.
> 
> Americans will never get behind a system that allows a draw. People grew up here with the excitement of extra innings in baseball and overtime in football/basketball.


Sure North Americans will get behind it. They already have. Attendance has been great for MLS. Of course, TV ratings will take many years if not decades to catch up though (as shown by the NHL).


----------



## Welkin

Rev Stickleback said:


> Yet college football, which is quite unbalanced and doesn't have the biggest teams all playing each other, or even a national championship, is arguably the most popular sport going.
> 
> Why isn't there an single nationwide college championship featuring just the biggest colleges?
> 
> 
> 
> The euro super league idea also overlooks the fact that even now, domestic revenue is the big provider. It's also often not appreciated how insular in its viewing habits each european nation is - the bigger nations especially. People in England don't really care about Milan v Inter or even Barcelona v Real Madrid. The same is true elsewhere. The Spanish watch Spanish football. The Germans watch German football. The Italians watch Italian football.
> 
> Europe is not like the USA. There is no mainstream European culture. TV channels do not (deliberately) broadcast across Europe. You can't (generally) turn on the tv in Madrid and watch the same tv as people in Munich. And football fans, on the whole, aren't really all that interested in football matches not involving teams from their country.
> 
> 
> It also neglects the consider just how much the big clubs get from being a big fish year on year. How does Arsenal "grow the brand" in Asia if they become just an average club in the superleague? Just as now, those foreign fans are going to be attracted to the winners, not the also rans.


College football teams are not owned by businessmen looking to maximize profits. There is a difference between private enterprise and public institutions.

I understand that Europeans are rather provincial about their soccer teams and national leagues, but again the world is changing and soccer will change also. Big time sports is entertainment and entertainment is going global. The owners of the bigger clubs are billionaires or will be billionaires who have no close ties to the leagues of old. Money will drive the new sports-entertainment enterprises and the world of soccer will change. The Kroenkes, Glazers, Henrys and Ambramovichs of the world are not going to be satisfied losing money every year (Chelsea lost $73 million last year) while their global brands play matches in some backwater town in front of 17,000 fans. Manchester United has a global fan base of 330 million. Do you really think that Malcom Glazer from Tampa, Florida cares more for the EPL rather than driving every revenue dollar possible from Man U. These are smart, aggressive businessmen with billions at risk and they will change the world of soccer. Whether it is for the best or not is another opinion.


----------



## El Mariachi

carnifex2005 said:


> Sure North Americans will get behind it. They already have. Attendance has been great for MLS. Of course, TV ratings will take many years if not decades to catch up though (as shown by the NHL).


MLS has been successful as a niche/regional sport but I think the goal is for it to become a top 5 league in the world. To climb the rungs of American sports, it needs to become a t.v./spectator friendly event. People nationally will not invest time into an out-of-market soccer game if they know there is a good chance at a draw. 

What really is the harm in having every MLS game end in say....15 minutes of extra time followed by a shootout. I suppose that would make us different from Europe....but who cares? MLS shouldn't be trying to appease Europeans anyway. They will never appreciate MLS. European players will though if the MLS t.v. contracts get big and the money starts flowing into the league.


----------



## kerouac1848

El Mariachi said:


> I don't like the idea of a draw/tie when you can easily have extra time or a shootout in soccer. A shootout is probably the most exciting part of a soccer match, as evidenced by England-Italy yesterday. It doesn't make sense to send the fans on their way with that available.


It's only 'exciting' because; a) it's restricted to very few matches out of the total and so has a degree of novelty; b) it's restricted to knockout games where the result is 'all or nothing'. Context is everything, having several matches every weekend for 9 months of the year decided on penalties would get dull very quickly. 

I also find it odd you consider a game in isolation. I mean, a season is a narrative with no known end, how a fan feels about a game and its result depends as much - if not more - upon its relationship to the league story as a whole (and it's the result which matters more than win/lose in most games, and the result depends upon the context of a club's relationship to a given league season). I'm guessing when you play so many regular league games it matters less (NFL though..)



> I also think a draw makes teams play too defensive and boring. I understand why they do it but it doesn't exactly make for good t.v.


As I said earlier if penalties were the norm in league fixtures you'd just get sides full of donkeys playing for the draw in normal time, hoping they could win the lottery of a shootout.



> Americans will never get behind a system that allows a draw. People grew up here with the excitement of extra innings in baseball and overtime in football/basketball.


That's fair enough, but it really isn't that difficult to see why many non-Americans see it differently. It's not that hard and not being able to take a draw comes across as kinda immature imo.


----------



## carnifex2005

El Mariachi said:


> MLS has been successful as a niche/regional sport but I think the goal is for it to become a top 5 league in the world. To climb the rungs of American sports, it needs to become a t.v./spectator friendly event. People nationally will not invest time into an out-of-market soccer game if they know there is a good chance at a draw.
> 
> What really is the harm in having every MLS game end in say....15 minutes of extra time followed by a shootout. I suppose that would make us different from Europe....but who cares? MLS shouldn't be trying to appease Europeans anyway. They will never appreciate MLS. European players will though if the MLS t.v. contracts get big and the money starts flowing into the league.


MLS are trying to appease the US viewer who watch European (and Mexican) soccer and they will never watch games that are different or gimmicky from the "real" thing, and it's worked. It's been proven over and over again that for a top US league to be taken seriously with the soccer viewing public it has to at least pretend they are following the established rules of football.


----------



## JJG

matthemod said:


> So because you've met a select group of people, that's representative of an entire culture, yet you choose to exclude the American's I mentioned in my post?
> 
> Are they not "Real" Americans because they don't mind ties?


What? No, I'm just giving you an expamle. I'm not saying that NO Americans accept ties (and I can't stress this enough, but I'm not JUST talking about soccer), I'm saying that I've seen a lot more people against ties than for it. 

If it's the opposite for you, then ok. But that's not what I've seen.


----------



## bigbossman

JJG said:


> Well, here's some info from the club's COO:
> 
> http://blog.revolutionsoccer.net/?p=7030


It sounds like lip service to me. I wonder over how many years that 1m has been spent...


----------



## Schorschico

bigbossman said:


> I asked a while back if the Revolution would ever get a stadium in Boston to no reply. So I ask again?


YES, I have the same question! As a european crazy about soccer living in Cambridge, I have always wondered what's the reason for playing in the middle of nowhere and with no public transportation to get there. Particularly when your target audience is very different from the other tenants of the stadium, the Patriots. The soccer lovers are generally speaking younger, college students, many europeans,... and they (we) tend to live closer to the city center (as opposed to the suburbs) and many don't own a car. They make it very difficult, even for people interested in the game, to go to the games. As a result, I have been once.

Wouldn't it be posible to play at the Harvard stadium? Not knowing the details it looks like the perfect place to me: Right size (at least smaller than Fox.), T conected,... am I missing something?

I think Boston is ripe for a massive soccer atendance (my feeling from the way people are showing interest for the Euro 2012, or the full Fox. for the US-Spain game, no real data), they just need to make it a bit easier.

PS My dream would be for the Red Sox to move and then get Fenway the way it is going to be this July for the Liverpool-Rome game. That would be awesome!!! :lol: (I know, I know)


----------



## bd popeye

^^The last match at Fenway drew a crowd of about 32,000. Excellent attendance.

I was not aware of the match so I looked it up..the game was between Celtic FC and Sporting SP in 2010.


----------



## Darloeye

Wow That looks really weird seeing Fenway setup for Soccer !


----------



## Welkin

Yes we do seem to have gotten off track. Let's get back to stadiums.

P.S.: Big Bossman, if you want to read more about how U.S. college football conferences are being torn apart and re-aligned because of TV money, Google the following: Big East Conference, Atlantic Coast Conference, Nebraska to Big Ten, Missouri to Southeastern Conference, Texas A & M to Southeastern Conference, West Virginia to Big12. 

The West Virginia-Pittsburgh rivalry "The Backyard Brawl" has been played *every year since 1895.* It is ending because Pittsburgh is leaving the Big East for the richer Atlantic Coast and West Virginia is leaving for the Big 12. The Missouri-Kansas rivalry "The Border War" has been played *every year since 1891* and it is coming to an end because Missouri is leaving the Big12 for the richer Southeastern Conference. Don't tell me that college football conferences aren't being torn apart and long time rivalries aren't being tossed aside in the name of money. There are dozens of big time old rivalries (Texas-Texas A&M, Nebraska-Oklahoma, etc) that the fans loved which are ending because of conference re-alignment. 

Conferences are no longer regional. The PAC-12 stretches from the Pacific coast to Colorado. The Big 12 from Texas to West Virginia, the Atlantic Coast from Florida to Massachusetts, The Big 10 from Pennsylvania to Nebraska. If something as tradition rich and fan crazy as U.S. College football can toss everything they hold dearly aside in the name of greater revenue, any league can.


----------



## JJG

bigbossman said:


> It sounds like lip service to me. I wonder over how many years that 1m has been spent...


Eh, lip service is better than NO service if you ask me. But New England and DC really need their own digs, and the days of sharing college, NFL stadiums (except Seattle maybe) and using old, outdated, cookie-cutters like RFK is over.


----------



## bigbossman

JJG said:


> Eh, lip service is better than NO service if you ask me. But New England and DC really need their own digs, and the days of sharing college, NFL stadiums (except Seattle maybe) and using old, outdated, cookie-cutters like RFK is over.


It isn't if they are still doing it 20 years down the line. It seems a new owner is what is needed in New England, if that's even possible...



Welkin said:


> Yes we do seem to have gotten off track. Let's get back to stadiums.


1. I know what's going on in college football and I stand by what I said which you didn't really address. 

2. There is no reason why the debate should stop here, if you really believe in what you are saying then you should post your views in a new thread (or an existing one) in the sports room of the UK and Ireland forums (healthy debate of this nature is welcome over there). I (and I'm sure many others) would really love to hear more about how you believe sports entertainment is going global and how ruthless businessmen are going to revolutionise football in Europe. Personally I think it would do us all a massive disservice if you do not share with us your obvious pearls of wisdom on a topic you clearly know so much about. I wait with bated breath.


----------



## Welkin

bigbossman said:


> It isn't if they are still doing it 20 years down the line. It seems a new owner is what is needed in New England, if that's even possible...
> 
> 
> 
> 1. I know what's going on in college football and I stand by what I said which you didn't really address.
> 
> 2. There is no reason why the debate should stop here, if you really believe in what you are saying then you should post your views in a new thread (or an existing one) in the sports room of the UK and Ireland forums (healthy debate of this nature is welcome over there). I (and I'm sure many others) would really love to hear more about how you believe sports entertainment is going global and how ruthless businessmen are going to revolutionise football in Europe. Personally I think it would do us all a massive disservice if you do not share with us your obvious pearls of wisdom on a topic you clearly know so much about. I wait with bated breath.[/QU
> 
> *That sounds like a winner. No sense wearing out the pages on this forum on European issues.*


----------



## MicroX

bd popeye said:


> ^^The last match at Fenway drew a crowd of about 32,000. Excellent attendance.
> 
> I was not aware of the match so I looked it up..the game was between Celtic FC and Sporting SP in 2010.


Isn't the "Lets go Celtic" a Boston Celtics chant? Or do they chant that in Scotland?


----------



## carnifex2005

Pro Soccer Nearing Net in Flushing

After a wide search, Major League Soccer officials have zeroed in on a run-down section of Flushing Meadows-Corona Park in Queens as their preferred site for the league's first New York stadium, according to multiple officials briefed on the matter.
In recent weeks, top MLS officials have presented a detailed proposal to local politicians, outlining a plan for a 20,000- to 25,000-seat stadium on roughly eight acres near the northern end of the park.










I've read online that a lot of New York soccer fans think it is a perfect location for a stadium.


----------



## The Game Is Up

> The soccer stadium would be privately financed, but it would still have to overcome significant hurdles: Because the stadium would be built on city-owned park land, the project would need approval from both the City Council and the state Legislature. To make up for the lost green space, MLS would have to create roughly eight acres of new park land elsewhere in the city.


Something like this was done before in the city. The borough then was The Bronx and the franchise is the Yankees. Google up "New Yankee Stadium" for the background.


----------



## Fabio1976

http://www.bigapplesoccer.com/leagues/mls2.php?article_id=30667

I only hope that the capacity will be at least 35.000 seats.


----------



## kerouac1848

carnifex2005 said:


> I've read online that a lot of New York soccer fans think it is a perfect location for a stadium.


Any possible sites in Brooklyn or the Bronx, or is Queens the only realistic location? (Ignoring Long Island or other non-NYC localities)


----------



## rammie1884

MicroX said:


> Isn't the "Lets go Celtic" a Boston Celtics chant? Or do they chant that in Scotland?


I don't think I've ever heard British(or "Irish") fans sing the "Lets go ..." chants anywhere. 

They do this sort of thing instead

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq2J146riTI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLgzx33NfQM


----------



## mgk920

carnifex2005 said:


> Pro Soccer Nearing Net in Flushing
> 
> After a wide search, Major League Soccer officials have zeroed in on a run-down section of Flushing Meadows-Corona Park in Queens as their preferred site for the league's first New York stadium, according to multiple officials briefed on the matter.
> In recent weeks, top MLS officials have presented a detailed proposal to local politicians, outlining a plan for a 20,000- to 25,000-seat stadium on roughly eight acres near the northern end of the park.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read online that a lot of New York soccer fans think it is a perfect location for a stadium.


Would this be for the reincarnated Cosmos?

Anyways, the only other places in the city that might have the space and access (at least highway) that I can think would be in Staten Island.

Mike


----------



## The Game Is Up

^^IIRC, the plan is for MLS to take the lead in getting approvals for this stadium plan, then sell out the rights to the planned new team. Supposedly, they believe that they won't have a problem finding an owner once the stadium is approved.


----------



## MicroX

rammie1884 said:


> I don't think I've ever heard British(or "Irish") fans sing the "Lets go ..." chants anywhere.
> 
> They do this sort of thing instead
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq2J146riTI


I've seen that video and it's amazing that kid leads the whole crowd.

Yea, that "Lets go...." at Fenway is probably just a bunch of Boston Celtic fans doing their thing for the Scottish club who also has the name Celtic in their team name.


----------



## Cjones2451

*Stade Saputo Stadium*

Why have the crowds become so small in Montreal, it was a Canadian rival, new DP making his debut and a nice night, why only 14K in attendance? I think it was a little over 12K for Houston and Seattle drew 17K for the re-opening
Capacity is 20K, doesn't make sense to me:bash:


----------



## BOSDAN

MicroX said:


> I've seen that video and it's amazing that kid leads the whole crowd.
> 
> Yea, that "Lets go...." at Fenway is probably just a bunch of Boston Celtic fans doing their thing for the Scottish club who also has the name Celtic in their team name.


You obviously were not at the match at Fenway against Sporting. They were all true Celtic fans making the noise.


----------



## El Mariachi

bigbossman said:


> If you believe penalties are so exciting what's the point in playing the match? Let's just have penalties decide every game., they'd be over in 30 minutes and it would always be "nerve-wracking" hno:.


You are taking it to an extreme here. I said that there should be a penalty shootout after 90+ minutes, followed by 15 minutes of extra time. 



> Not as much as you would with penalties on the table. Currently a draw gives you 1 point, with penalties it would give you a greater shot a 3.


Teams still would have to play 100+ minutes of game before it came to that. A lesser team that can withstand a superior team for over an hour and a half should be rewarded with a chance at victory. 





> Staying on the theme of wide sweeping statements in Europe we understand that each match isn't supposed to be a stand alone event. Each game is part of a series which builds to a big denouement at the end of the season, like a serial television show.


Well, that's just a difference in sporting culture. I'm not saying anything should be changed over there but I think that tiebreakers would benefit the MLS for an American audience. The sport will always have a niche here but the goal is to make in a national pastime. 





> In your opinion


Not just in my opinion but alot of people in this country. 




> Why are they awful?


Because a draw is the sporting equivalent to blue balls. You get all hyped up and excited and leave with nothing. There is no reason for it with the available tiebreaker scenarios in soccer. In American football, it's a bit more difficult given the constant injuries and brutal nature of the game. In soccer, you can end it with penalties, which are exciting. In the NFL, you watch _hours_ for nothing. Paying a pretty penny if you decide to attend the game. 





> Not really. I take it you think that when these teams draw their fans feel some sort of inadequacy or something, this isn't the case. A draw is accepted because it is a legitimate result.


It's a legitmate result if you are a lesser team. If I was a fan of Manchester United and they tied with West Bromwich Albion---I'd be a little disapointed. If I was a fan of West Bromwich Albion, I would want to see my team have a chance at knocking off a major team in a shootout. I understand that there is some pride with a draw but it's still weak.


----------



## vanbasten88

I'm not entirely sure that Hope Solo save at 2:03 didn't cross the line after it appeared to bobble in the replay near her left shoulder. 1 more case for Goal Line Technology, already being trialled this month in European Int Friendlies. Unbelievable hustle to recover from being wrong footed by the deflection though! I've often been critical of keepers in the ladies game, but that was top drawer!


----------



## slipperydog

krudmonk said:


> He was already getting up when the ball flew in. Don't try and justify Goldibecks and his hissy fit.


He was getting up slowly still acting like he was injured, then all of sudden was well enough to jump up and get in Beckham's grill. It's pretty obvious he was faking. Don't deny it, just admit it and move on. It's part of the game.


----------



## Darloeye

Yeah I hate when players have a hissy fit and cry foul all the time but its part of the game now. Makes Ice Hockey look like a medievil fighting game


----------



## Canadian Chocho

Its amazing the things Becks gets away with when he has a hissy fit.


----------



## krudmonk

slipperydog said:


> He was getting up slowly still acting like he was injured, then all of sudden was well enough to jump up and get in Beckham's grill. It's pretty obvious he was faking. Don't deny it, just admit it and move on. It's part of the game.


Of course it's part of the game. Quite literally 100% of teams are guilty of time-wasting, which is why it's so odd that people are excusing Beckham because Cronin was milking it. The denial is on your side, sir.


----------



## The Game Is Up

vanbasten88 said:


> I'm not entirely sure that Hope Solo save at 2:03 didn't cross the line after it appeared to bobble in the replay near her left shoulder. 1 more case for Goal Line Technology, already being trialled this month in European Int Friendlies. Unbelievable hustle to recover from being wrong footed by the deflection though! I've often been critical of keepers in the ladies game, but that was top drawer!


There is another video from the same Youtube page on this specific play you mentioned and, already, it has over 561,000 views. Hey, great to see the women's game getting more attention, even if through a controversial play. 

Anyway, back to the Queens stadium plan. An article from the Gothamist with quotes from the politician who's going to push for it in the state Assembly.

http://gothamist.com/2012/06/30/exclusive_interview_assemblyman_fra_1.php



> *Assemblyman, it's great to speak to you. I certainly want to make sure you're quoted accurately.* Well, you called me a eurosnob! I was born with a soccer ball in my crib, my friend. No, what I said was, I'm a diehard soccer fan. That's been the sport that I've played my whole life. She asked me if I would root for a New York team over my beloved FC Barcelona. I said I would root for them, but my allegiance will always be to my beloved Barcelona. Not that I would not root for a NY team.
> 
> *Can you tell me when the league first approached you about the site at Flushing Meadows-Corona Park? *The interesting thing is that I actually approached them about a year ago. I did some research knowing that there was going to be some ability to do an expansion team right now...I wrote two op-ed pieces, one I think went in the Daily News and a couple of the weeklies, the other went in El Diario. It talked about the economics of what a soccer stadium and what a soccer team would mean for the borough of Queens, in particularly this area which I represent. You're talking about a smaller arena, in an area that's not even utilized in the park. They're not taking away park space in the sense that fields will be missing. They're taking areas that are actually dead pools, that haven't been utilized since the 1960's World's Fair.


Read more in the article


----------



## eMKay

vanbasten88 said:


> I'm not entirely sure that Hope Solo save at 2:03 didn't cross the line after it appeared to bobble in the replay near her left shoulder. 1 more case for Goal Line Technology, already being trialled this month in European Int Friendlies. Unbelievable hustle to recover from being wrong footed by the deflection though! I've often been critical of keepers in the ladies game, but that was top drawer!


It was bobbled because she was fouled. You cannot get a goal by fouling the keeper


----------



## slipperydog

krudmonk said:


> Of course it's part of the game. Quite literally 100% of teams are guilty of time-wasting, which is why it's so odd that people are excusing Beckham because Cronin was milking it. The denial is on your side, sir.


A bitch move is a bitch move. Even if other people do it. Which is why it's great when people like Becks point it out. It was hilarious though.


----------



## vanbasten88

eMKay said:


> It was bobbled because she was fouled. You cannot get a goal by fouling the keeper


I respectfully disagree, Solo didn't have control of the ball when the Canadian forward lunged at it. The Canadian was perfectly entitled to try to make a play. IMO keepers are a protected species from refs the world over. It annoys the hell out of me, they(GKs) already have the advantage of being able to use their hands in the box. seems like all they have to do is get breathed on to cop a free kick these days. :bash:


----------



## MicroX

Why is San Jose Earthquakes - LA Galaxy considered a clásico?

Also, is there an MLS General thread on this forum?


----------



## vanbasten88

MicroX said:


> Why is San Jose Earthquakes - LA Galaxy considered a clásico?
> 
> Also, is there an MLS General thread on this forum?


Q1- A very good question is it marketing or is there a particular dislike between SJ and LA (akin to Boston and NY) perhaps? 
Q2www.bigsoccer.com I guess


----------



## robbery4774

MicroX said:


> Why is San Jose Earthquakes - LA Galaxy considered a clásico?


How could sb. support a club with such ridicolous names. 
Why not San Jose Pokemon vs LA Blue moon
Florida alligators vs Detroit mob
Houston oil vs Denver hurricane 
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

And this is not any worth than the current names of MLS-clubs hno:hno:


----------



## ryebreadraz

Back in the 90's the Galaxy and Clash/Quakes were the only California teams and their proximity made them somewhat rivals. Then, especially in the early 2000's, they were two of best teams in the league. They played each other in the 2001 MLS Cup, played an epic two-legged tie in the 2003 playoffs and then again in 2005. Considering the hate between the two teams and the number of hugely important games they played and success they have had, it was probably the best rivalry MLS has ever had.

The rivalry has died off some of late with the Quakes moving to Houston before being revived and SJ being so bad that it's tough to get up for the games. But there is a lot of history (relative to MLS) in the rivalry going back to the early days of the league. Even when it died out some lately, it had been simmering under the surface waiting for the two teams to be good again so it can really shine. Now SJ has a really good team and LA are defending champions, beginning to figure things out again so hopefully the rivalry is back.


----------



## GunnerJacket

krudmonk said:


> Of course it's part of the game. Quite literally 100% of teams are guilty of time-wasting, which is why it's so odd that people are excusing Beckham because Cronin was milking it. The denial is on your side, sir.


I hardly think Becks was aiming to hurt anyone and he did get carded. More importantly, time wasting may be common but that doesn't make it right or popular. Thus, for SJ players to b**** about Becks' cheap move while being guilty of their own is rather disingenuous on their part.

Count me among those that say if your down for 15 seconds then you need to come off the field for at least 2 minutes. Then we'll see how many players roll around and around and around.


----------



## krudmonk

Everyone is judging the clip but not the play preceding it, in which Cronin was kneed in the head while trying to head a corner kick out of the box. Complaining about time-wasting is fine but people are bundling that with disgust toward diving, which doesn't apply at all here. It's no different than a keeper taking his sweet time with a goal kick. I don't like it and it totally sucks if your team is trailing but that's the way it goes in every game there is.


robbery4774 said:


> How could sb. support a club with such ridicolous names.
> Why not San Jose Pokemon vs LA Blue moon
> Florida alligators vs Detroit mob
> Houston oil vs Denver hurricane
> :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
> 
> And this is not any worth than the current names of MLS-clubs hno:hno:


Indeed, City Rangers FC vs United Rovers AFC is more appealing.


----------



## JJG

robbery4774 said:


> How could sb. support a club with such ridicolous names.
> Why not San Jose Pokemon vs LA Blue moon
> Florida alligators vs Detroit mob
> Houston oil vs Denver hurricane
> :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
> 
> And this is not any worth than the current names of MLS-clubs hno:hno:


By "ridiculous", you mean typical North American names you'd see in the NFL, NBA, MLB, or NHL?


----------



## bd popeye

MicroX said:


> Also, is there an MLS General thread on this forum?


There was at one time but I just searched and it has disappeared.hno:.Just start one if you wish then post a link to it in this thread which is the hot bed of MLS discussion here at skyscrapercity.


----------



## slipperydog

krudmonk said:


> Everyone is judging the clip but not the play preceding it, in which Cronin was kneed in the head while trying to head a corner kick out of the box. Complaining about time-wasting is fine but people are bundling that with disgust toward diving, which doesn't apply at all here. It's no different than a keeper taking his sweet time with a goal kick. I don't like it and it totally sucks if your team is trailing but that's the way it goes in every game there is.


No one cares what the injury was. Time wasting is time wasting. You admitted it. But the miraculous healing powers of getting a ball kicked at you was too funny. Beckham called him out on it, and he'll likely serve a suspension because of it. Doesn't take away the fact that it was awesome.


----------



## vanbasten88

krudmonk said:


> Everyone is judging the clip but not the play preceding it, in which Cronin was kneed in the head while trying to head a corner kick out of the box. Complaining about time-wasting is fine but people are bundling that with disgust toward diving, which doesn't apply at all here. It's no different than a keeper taking his sweet time with a goal kick. I don't like it and it totally sucks if your team is trailing but that's the way it goes in every game there is.
> 
> Indeed, City Rangers FC vs United Rovers AFC is more appealing.


The famous RangersFC of Glasgow were referred to in the recent SPL fixtures as 'Club 12' is that any better? Sevco 5088 Ltd is the umbrella company that changed its name to The Rangers Football club and is seeking admittance to the SPL. Failing that they'll have to join a lower division. Sevco 5088 Ltd has an interesting ring to it. Are fully corporate names not considered in vogue at the moment? 
Soccer is not the same the world over[thank God!]. It adapts to suit the circumstance it is in to appeal to the local population, that is a large part of its charm. :banana: robbery47774...Different doesn't mean better or worse, just different.


----------



## krudmonk

slipperydog said:


> No one cares what the injury was. Time wasting is time wasting. You admitted it. But the miraculous healing powers of getting a ball kicked at you was too funny. Beckham called him out on it, and he'll likely serve a suspension because of it. Doesn't take away the fact that it was awesome.


Of course I admitted it, guy. That was necessary to make the distinction between time-wasting and diving. Apparently everyone thinks you must be crippled to warrant staying down for more than a few seconds. Beckham didn't call anyone out so much as throw a tantrum, as his actions were by far more irregular than Cronin's. Maybe his sense of entitlement is shared by all of LA and this is the only silver lining you can take from the match?


----------



## Darloeye

Rangers wil have to start in divison 3 of the scottish football league.


----------



## vanbasten88

Darloeye said:


> Rangers wil have to start in divison 3 of the scottish football league.


Div 3 clubs will love that if the gers fans don't decide to boycott away games in protest.


----------



## MicroX

robbery4774 said:


> How could sb. support a club with such ridicolous names.
> Why not San Jose Pokemon vs LA Blue moon
> Florida alligators vs Detroit mob
> Houston oil vs Denver hurricane
> :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
> 
> And this is not any worth than the current names of MLS-clubs hno:hno:


Do you speak English?

What is sb.?


----------



## slipperydog

krudmonk said:


> Of course I admitted it, guy. That was necessary to make the distinction between time-wasting and diving. Apparently everyone thinks you must be crippled to warrant staying down for more than a few seconds. Beckham didn't call anyone out so much as throw a tantrum, as his actions were by far more irregular than Cronin's. Maybe his sense of entitlement is shared by all of LA and this is the only silver lining you can take from the match?


A) no one claimed he was diving, b) How does Beckham kicking a ball at a player wasting time equate to him being "entitled"? You're just reaching now. Let's call a spade a spade, the SJ player was being a bitch and Beckham will get a deserved suspension.


----------



## vanbasten88

slipperydog said:


> A) no one claimed he was diving, b) How does Beckham kicking a ball at a player wasting time equate to him being "entitled"? You're just reaching now. Let's call a spade a spade, the SJ player was being a bitch and Beckham will get a deserved suspension.


Becks received a caution from the on field ref - right? Are MLS regs different? I thought if an incident was dealt with at the time by the ref it can't be taken further after the fact? Happy to be corrected if I haven't understood the situation.


----------



## MicroX

bd popeye said:


> There was at one time but I just searched and it has disappeared.hno:.Just start one if you wish then post a link to it in this thread which is the hot bed of MLS discussion here at skyscrapercity.


Up and running.

MLS General


----------



## robbery4774

JJG said:


> By "ridiculous", you mean typical North American names you'd see in the NFL, NBA, MLB, or NHL?


No. Most clubs of NFL,NBA, MLB or NHL have classy names besides some like Toronto "Raptors" and some others with ridicolous animal names.

But the names of most MLS clubs just seem to be plastic.

btw: I'm not a fan of english club either. You have the feeling that half of the clubs is named "United" or "City"


----------



## robbery4774

MicroX said:


> Do you speak English?
> 
> What is sb.?


Yes! Do you speak english? 

If you look at the sentence it is obvious that sb. is somebody. :lol:
What else could have fit?:bash:


----------



## JJG

robbery4774 said:


> No. Most clubs of NFL,NBA, MLB or NHL have classy names besides some like Toronto "Raptors" and *some others with ridicolous animal names.*
> 
> But the names of most MLS clubs just seem to be plastic.
> 
> btw: I'm not a fan of english club either. You have the feeling that half of the clubs is named "United" or "City"


What's wrong with Raptors? They were fast, cunning, and extremely agile creatures. That's a PERFECT mascot for a _basketball_ team. 

Some of those MLS names really are plastic because the league isn't even 20 years old yet. You don't really have the same history and you just can't slap something on and hope it makes your club sound more prestegious (i.e., Real Salt Lake).


----------



## carnifex2005

JJG said:


> What's wrong with Raptors? They were fast, cunning, and extremely agile creatures. That's a PERFECT mascot for a _basketball_ team.


And they're also extinct.


----------



## JJG

carnifex2005 said:


> And they're also extinct.


Still better than The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim.


----------



## Welkin

In US/Canada we tend to focus more on the team rather than the city/neighborhood the team is from. People tend to be Leafs fans more than they are Toronto fans. In England the focus seems to be on the city or neighborhood. That is why there is no London team but instead they root for Arsenal, West Ham, Tottenham, Queens Park, Chelsea and Fulham. We root for the New York Mets not the Queens Mets. I like our system better. Who wants to root for the Arlington Cowboys or the Landover Redskins.


----------



## Otto Racecar

The san jose earthquakes also have history with their nickname that dates long before MLS, so this isn't a nickname that was just arbitrarily placed upon the team. The earthquakes were in existence starting in 1974 in the old NASL and finally folded in 1988. There are several teams in MLS who's nicknames date back to the NASL so there's a little more history there then may be perceived.


----------



## Topher51

Welkin said:


> In US/Canada we tend to focus more on the team rather than the city/neighborhood the team is from. People tend to be Leafs fans more than they are Toronto fans. In England the focus seems to be on the city or neighborhood. That is why there is no London team but instead they root for Arsenal, West Ham, Tottenham, Queens Park, Chelsea and Fulham. We root for the New York Mets not the Queens Mets. I like our system better. Who wants to root for the Arlington Cowboys or the Landover Redskins.


The size of England vs. the size of the US plays a big part in this too. When I tell people where I grew up, I reference the large city 20 minutes up the road, rather than the little suburb b/c no one would know where I am talking about. US sports teams tend to follow suit. It's also because most of them started off playing in the city before moving out to new stadiums.

It would sound equally dumb to call the above referenced teams the London Gunners, London Hammers, London Hotspur, London Rangers and London Blues. 

I like both systems the way they are.


----------



## MicroX




----------



## eMKay

carnifex2005 said:


> And they're also extinct.


Oh really? Not all of them. Some of them evolved.


----------



## Darloeye

Topher51 said:


> The size of England vs. the size of the US plays a big part in this too. When I tell people where I grew up, I reference the large city 20 minutes up the road, rather than the little suburb b/c no one would know where I am talking about. US sports teams tend to follow suit. It's also because most of them started off playing in the city before moving out to new stadiums.
> 
> It would sound equally dumb to call the above referenced teams the London Gunners, London Hammers, London Hotspur, London Rangers and London Blues.
> 
> I like both systems the way they are.


Yes I like both systems too. But having uk teams always having names like "city" "town" "AFC" "FC" just seems lazy to me. I had this talk when my local team had to change its name because of the fa being dumb but thats another story the club picked "Darlington 1883" which was when the club was founded.


----------



## ChesterCopperpot

MicroX said:


> *KC Stadium pic*


As a Toronto FC fan - I'm extremely jealous of this place.

We drove down in 2010 to see a game in that coverted baseball stadium - quite possibly the worst place I've seen a game in

Can't wait to get back down to see the new place


----------



## eMKay

ChesterCopperpot said:


> As a Toronto FC fan - I'm extremely jealous of this place.
> 
> We drove down in 2010 to see a game in that coverted baseball stadium - quite possibly the worst place I've seen a game in
> 
> Can't wait to get back down to see the new place


It's a great stadium but so is yours, it's in an excellent location with a great view, and was built for very little money.


----------



## joezierer

Oh gee let's have "lol mls team names are dumb" ver. 651. Shut up you dumb fuckers.


----------



## Commandant

Don't think I've seen these on here yet... Not sure of the location:


----------



## Commandant

I'm really impressed with a lot of the youth facilities that have been built in the States... Some examples:

Mike Rose Soccer Complex, Memphis, Tennessee









James. W Cownie Soccer Complex, Des Moines, Iowa









Overland Park Soccer Complex, Overland Park, Kansas

















WRAL Soccer Center, Raleigh, North Carolina









Stryker Soccer Complex, Wichita, Kansas

























Mustang Soccer Complex, Danville, California









Jack Allen Recreation Complex, Decatur, Alabama


----------



## Commandant

A few more:

APS Soccer Complex, Albuquerque, New Mexico









Reach 11 Sports Complex, Phoenix, Arizona









Ted Mackorell Soccer Complex, Boone, North Carolina


----------



## Commandant

Renderings of the University of Louisville Soccer Stadium:


----------



## JJG

joezierer said:


> Oh gee let's have "lol mls team names are dumb" ver. 651.* Shut up you dumb fuckers*.












Besides, it wasn't even going into that.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Commandant said:


> Don't think I've seen these on here yet... Not sure of the location:


If we're lucky, San Diego. 

Odd. One picture has the stadium built to incorporate a (supposedly) existing grandstand, while the other has a brand new facility built apart from that grandstand.


----------



## ChesterCopperpot

Judging by the names of the streets/highways - it's in Ponoma on the Fairplex grounds


----------



## BoulderGrad

Looks to be here: http://goo.gl/maps/WgxQ


----------



## MicroX

Isn't Chivas USA moving or was that a member's wishful thinking?


----------



## carnifex2005

MicroX said:


> Isn't Chivas USA moving or was that a member's wishful thinking?


Wishful thinking. Vergara said he will never move Chivas from the LA market since even with the Galaxy there it is still larger than almost any other market in the US.


----------



## Darloeye

carnifex2005 said:


> Wishful thinking. Vergara said he will never move Chivas from the LA market since even with the Galaxy there it is still larger than almost any other market in the US.


hno: Sad but true. Just wanna see Chivas in a stadium they can call their own


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

Darloeye said:


> hno: Sad but true. Just wanna see Chivas in a stadium they can call their own


more than likely Chivas will get their own stadium where the current Sports Arena stands in Expo Park.


----------



## hubemx

carnifex2005 said:


> Wishful thinking. Vergara said he will never move Chivas from the LA market since even with the Galaxy there it is still larger than almost any other market in the US.


:bash: at least rebrand the team! LA Aztecs rules!! :cheers:


----------



## The Game Is Up

It's going to have some sort of connection with Chivas whether we like it or not. So how about "Club Deportivo de Los Angeles" or CDLA? If the Pomona plan comes off the drawing board I have to look at this as a glass-half-full thing. The greater point mustn't be missed and that's the continued expanded presence of association football at the regional/local level.


----------



## MicroX

The Game Is Up said:


> It's going to have some sort of connection with Chivas whether we like it or not. So how about "Club Deportivo de Los Angeles" or CDLA? If the Pomona plan comes off the drawing board I have to look at this as a glass-half-full thing. The greater point mustn't be missed and that's the continued expanded presence of association football at the regional/local level.


Club Deportivo de Los Angeles would be a marketing nightmare.

You can kind of see why US sports team don't go with stuff like that.


----------



## jackgold46

It's high time the New Great britain Trend declared programs for a soccer-specific arena. Since the increase of Sports Particular Arenas I always desired the Trend to have one. 

Boston Celtics Bedding


----------



## mgk920

Commandant said:


> I'm really impressed with a lot of the youth facilities that have been built in the States... Some examples:
> 
> [major snippage]


USA Youth Sports Complex - Appleton, WI:

http://binged.it/PqlmD2

Mike


----------



## master_klon

Scorpions Community Stadium (San Antonio) 



















Their current home stadium in the background:


















Suite renderings:


----------



## slipperydog

The Scorpions are actually a non-profit soccer team, believe it or not. Here's a story from the NY Times yesterday with a good background on the franchise and soccer in San Antonio. They are currently playing in an American football stadium, they don't sell alcohol, and they are still getting 8,000 fans per game, which is more than a lot of teams in Europe get.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/08/sports/soccer/investing-in-soccer-but-not-for-a-profit.html


----------



## kerouac1848

Yeah but no team in Europe plays in a country of 25 million people where there are only 3 professional football clubs in total and all more than 100 miles apart from each other. There are also a load of local factors to consider like fan violence, crumbing grounds, low purchasing power, monopoly of competition by one club which devalues a league, etc, all of which impact on interest and thus attendance. 

You have to remember the context is totally different across the Atlantic which makes current comparisons between the US and Europe quite futile.


----------



## master_klon

kerouac1848 said:


> Yeah but no team in Europe plays in a country of 25 million people where there are only 3 professional football clubs in total and all more than 100 miles apart from each other.


WTF? What are you on about?


----------



## JJG

kerouac1848 said:


> Yeah but no team in Europe plays in a country of 25 million people where there are only 3 professional football clubs in total and all more than 100 miles apart from each other. There are also a load of local factors to consider like fan violence, crumbing grounds, low purchasing power, monopoly of competition by one club which devalues a league, etc, all of which impact on interest and thus attendance.
> 
> You have to remember the context is totally different across the Atlantic which makes current comparisons between the US and Europe quite futile.


Yeah, I'm a little confused about this myself.


----------



## JYDA

He's using the analogy of Texas as a country with 25 million people and 3 pro clubs (dynamo, dallas, San Antonio). 

The flaw is he totally ignores the competition from other sports in a saturated sports culture where soccer's existence (especially NASL) is hardly ever acknowledged in the mainstream. It would be similar to a pro basketball team in London. It would have a massive population to draw from but it's existence would never be acknowledged on Sky Sports News or any of the mainstream press in the face of competition from established sports. In that context an 8k attendance number is impressive.


----------



## jonathaninATX

Quite confused myself as well???


----------



## JJG

JYDA said:


> He's using the analogy of Texas as a country with 25 million people and 3 pro clubs (dynamo, dallas, San Antonio).
> 
> The flaw is he totally ignores the competition from other sports in a saturated sports culture where soccer's existence (especially NASL) is hardly ever acknowledged in the mainstream. It would be similar to a pro basketball team in London. It would have a massive population to draw from but it's existence would never be acknowledged on Sky Sports News or any of the mainstream press in the face of competition from established sports. In that context an 8k attendance number is impressive.


Oh, ok....

The Texas as a _country _part threw me off. He's about 167 years late on that one. :lol:


----------



## slipperydog

JYDA said:


> He's using the analogy of Texas as a country with 25 million people and 3 pro clubs (dynamo, dallas, San Antonio).
> 
> The flaw is he totally ignores the competition from other sports in a saturated sports culture where soccer's existence (especially NASL) is hardly ever acknowledged in the mainstream. It would be similar to a pro basketball team in London. It would have a massive population to draw from but it's existence would never be acknowledged on Sky Sports News or any of the mainstream press in the face of competition from established sports. In that context an 8k attendance number is impressive.


Yep, that's all I'm saying, I was pleasantly surprised when I heard the 8k figure (AND with no alcohol sales). I'm actually not sure what kind of role the fact that they are a new team should be expected to play in ticket sales. Is 8k expected because of the 'novelty' factor? Or is 8k a positive surprise because a minor league franchise with no history or cachet in the community may be relatively unknown?


----------



## kerouac1848

JYDA said:


> He's using the analogy of Texas as a country with 25 million people and 3 pro clubs (dynamo, dallas, San Antonio).
> 
> The flaw is he totally ignores the competition from other sports in a saturated sports culture where soccer's existence (especially NASL) is hardly ever acknowledged in the mainstream. It would be similar to a pro basketball team in London. It would have a massive population to draw from but it's existence would never be acknowledged on Sky Sports News or any of the mainstream press in the face of competition from established sports. In that context an 8k attendance number is impressive.


I expressed myself poorly, I should I have written that no club plays in a league based in a country of 300m+ and a local region/state of 25m where there are only 3 other sides far apart. 

You mention saturation, what do you think Europe has with dozens of football leagues alone? Smaller leagues often have to put up their fixtures against those from Spain, England, Italy, etc and it impacts, especially when that country has their best players performing in those leagues. I once read a comment by a Scottish guy arguing that the SPL should put all their fixtures on a Friday evening so people don't have to choose between watching Man Utd vs. Spurs or go to some lame local game. I suspect that's also part of the rationale for some wishing to make the league play over the summer.

On the basketball front, first basketball in the UK isn't an equivalent to football in the US as a spectator sport, it's less popular than that, basketball in France and probably Germany would be closer (basketball here is similar to how football was around 1990-92 I guess, a crash from when it was growing over a decade ago with a chance to capitalise on hosting a major event). And if you were to compare, it would be with a 2nd tier pan-European competition, like the Eurocup, where German and French teams who do well (like SA) get between 2.5k-5.6k. Yes those countries are larger than Texas but they also have several teams each in the same competition and some more in the top-tier Euroleague, plus a number in double figures in their respective national leagues. They also play more games.

Anyway, I never said it wasn't impressive or trying to put the side down, I just highlighted that comparisons are meaningless because context between the two areas are very different.


----------



## master_klon

In the news this past week :cheers:

*Discussions over potential NY stadium site in Flushing Park*​
Major League Soccer representatives have begun discussions with Queens officials to build a soccer stadium in Flushing Meadows-Corona Park. The proposed venue would hold between 20,000-25,000 on eight acres in the northern section of the park.The stadium would be home to an expansion team, which the league has tried to bring to New York for years.

"We are thrilled about the prospect of being in Queens and bringing the world's sport to the world's park," MLS president Mark Abbott said Friday. The league plans to pay for the facility and use the venue to attract the expansion team. MLS commissioner Don Garber has said that once a stadium was built in New York, there would be no problem finding an owner. "Queens is the most ethnically diverse area in the country," Queens Chamber of Commerce executive director Jack Friedman said. "The whole thing makes a lot of sense."

......

"It's win-win for Queens," said State Assemblyman Francisco Moya (D-Corona), who estimated that the stadium will create 2,000 construction jobs, 900 part-time jobs and 300 full-time jobs. The project also fits the league's criteria of having public transportation near the stadium. The subway and LIRR stations are short walks. To ensure as little traffic congestion as possible, MLS agreed not to schedule games when the Mets are at home at Citi Field or during the first week of the U.S. Open, Friedman said. State Sen. Toby Ann Stavisky (D-Flushing) said she was concerned about whether there was "going to be enough parking." A site inspection is scheduled for later this month, she added. The project still needs approval from the State Assembly and Senate.

The stadium, which would be built over the Fountain of Planets, would displace seven soccer fields that are used by dozens of youth and adult teams. MLS has agreed to build seven new fields, Friedman said. "Major League Soccer not only wants to expand its franchise, they want to have youth programs, adult soccer programs, child obesity programs, all based around soccer," he said. MLS also has agreed to create eight acres of parkland elsewhere to compensate for the new stadium.

"We're engaged with Major League Soccer on their evaluation efforts and think it would be great if they came to New York City," Julie Wood, the mayor's deputy press secretary, Wood said.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/soccer/mls-interested-in-building-stadium-in-flushing-1.3825319


*New majority investors for DC United: Soccer-specific stadium top priority*​
Erick Thohir, an Indonesian media magnate and part-owner of the NBA’s Philadelphia 76ers, will be introduced as D.C. United’s majority investor Tuesday, multiple people familiar with the deal said. United has scheduled a 2 p.m. news conference at the W Hotel to “introduce new members of the ownership group.” Current investor Will Chang, who will retain a stake in the MLS club, and United President Kevin Payne will attend. Another 76ers part-owner, Jason Levien, a former sports agent and NBA executive with the Sacramento Kings, will join the United group as well but Thohir is the big money man in the deal, multiple people said. 

......

The pact infuses the MLS club with much-needed resources to aggressively pursue a new stadium project at Buzzard Point in Southwest Washington. Under preliminary plans, United would offer to pay for the construction of the facility, four blocks west of Nationals Park, and seek assistance from the city government for land acquisition and infrastructure costs. “There is going to be a lot of [talk] about the stadium as part of the [ownership] announcement,” Payne said. “Nothing specific but just in terms” of the club’s future with new investment.

Since MLS began, United has played at RFK Stadium, a 51-year-old facility that the club rents from the city. Most MLS teams play in new or renovated stadiums, projects that have enhanced their ability to turn a profit. Without a new facility, United officials say remaining in Washington wouldn’t be financially feasible. 

They’ve explored a stadium proposal in Baltimore but insist they would exhaust all efforts on a D.C. project first. United has targeted Buzzard Point, which sits near the confluence of the Potomac and Anacostia rivers, for a stadium that would accommodate at least 21,000 fans and host many non-soccer events. The project would also include mixed-use development around the stadium, with the hope of revitalizing an untapped area between the baseball park and Maine Avenue waterfront.

New investors also will help stabilize United’s finances after years of multimillion-dollar losses and enhance the front office’s ability to compete with well-backed MLS teams, such as the Los Angeles Galaxy and New York Red Bulls, for high-priced players. Although United has shelled out money in recent years for accomplished players — former midfielder Marcelo Gallardo and current players Dwayne De Rosario, Branko Boskovic and Hamdi Salihi — it hasn’t been in position to acquire the marquee likes of England’s David Beckham, France’s Thierry Henry or Ireland’s Robbie Keane.

......

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...ity-investor/2012/07/09/gJQAbqYEZW_story.html


----------



## flierfy

JYDA said:


> He's using the analogy of Texas as a country with 25 million people and 3 pro clubs (dynamo, dallas, San Antonio).
> 
> The flaw is he totally ignores the competition from other sports in a saturated sports culture where soccer's existence (especially NASL) is hardly ever acknowledged in the mainstream. It would be similar to a pro basketball team in London. It would have a massive population to draw from but it's existence would never be acknowledged on Sky Sports News or any of the mainstream press in the face of competition from established sports. In that context an 8k attendance number is impressive.


I don't know where you see a saturation of sport teams in a conurbation of the size of San Antonio. A single major league franchise is located there. That leave a lot of the cake for everyone else.


----------



## GunnerJacket

master_klon said:


> In the news this past week :cheers:
> 
> *Discussions over potential NY stadium site in Flushing Park*
> 
> 
> *New majority investors for DC United: Soccer-specific stadium top priority*​


I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm actually quite optimistic about both ventures. The expanded ownership of United should create the financial leverage the team needs to push this deal through, so if they can convince the property owners and the District to abide by the plans than this might actually become a reality. If so then I hope and pray they also do it right because the potential for the District and the team is huge.

As for NY it's no secret I'm desperate for a respectable team to supplant Corporate Entity FC as the local team, and while I'm a bit saddened about the prospect of losing a historic part of the fair site I agree it could also be an amazing location for a stadium. Again, if done right that could be HUGE for MLS. And I say this as someone who thinks NY #2 shouldn't be an MLS priority.


----------



## Topher51

GunnerJacket said:


> I can't believe I'm saying this but I'm actually quite optimistic about both ventures. The expanded ownership of United should create the financial leverage the team needs to push this deal through, so if they can convince the property owners and the District to abide by the plans than this might actually become a reality. If so then I hope and pray they also do it right because the potential for the District and the team is huge.


I'll believe it when shovels are in the ground. How many different stadium proposals have they had now? There were 4 just in the 10 years I lived in DC, plus 1 in Baltimore. Twice in that time they had new ownership or investors come in and tout the imporatance of a new SSS and still nothing. 

The potential for a team in the district is enormous, but to this point, the city council has shown no interest in funding another stadium. Nats Park was such a fiasco to get funded, although, now that the team is winning and privite development around the ballpark is starting to pick back up, it is starting to pay off. 

I really hope one day soon I can go back and watch a match in a beautiful new stadium at Buzzard Point, but like I said, I'll believe it when I see it.


----------



## GunnerJacket

I certainly understand the tempered enthusiasm, but as the adage goes "We're closer than ever before!" Having already agreed to pay for the entire construction the team owners now have the leverage for a better loan rate and cover for any overages. So by all accounts it now appears all they need is to swing that District approval. With the ability to focus on that anything remains possible.


----------



## master_klon

*New York Cosmos Will Return To NASL In 2013!* 

http://www.nasl.com/index.php?id=3&newsid=2779


----------



## Otto Racecar

master_klon said:


> *New York Cosmos Will Return To NASL In 2013!*
> 
> http://www.nasl.com/index.php?id=3&newsid=2779


So is this a potential stepping stone for the cosmos into the mls or does this work against a second new york mls franchise?


----------



## tehlazerviking

Otto Racecar said:


> So is this a potential stepping stone for the cosmos into the mls or does this work against a second new york mls franchise?


Yes. Most people believe so.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Otto Racecar said:


> So is this a potential stepping stone for the cosmos into the mls or does this work against a second new york mls franchise?


That depends. 

Essentially, and someone correct me if I'm off a bit here, MLS is working with the City to first confirm a stadium site and will then work to find an owner. They want a 2nd NYC presence but don't want to resort to using a college stadium or something less than a standard MLS-worthy 18k venue. 

MLS hasn't openly said they want that team to be the Cosmos because that brand is under a specific ownership that is obviously moving along for their own interests, as well. But all things being equal I'm guessing both would prefer to be working with one another. I take this announcement as a sign that the Cosmos felt they could get their ball rolling right now, knowing that MLS is easily 24+ months away from opening an new stadium in NYC. Their plan is probably to get the brand actually playing ball, build a presence and then seek to partner with the new stadium once MLS gets that secured with the City.

The risk, however, is that they could flounder as a franchise in NASL and another, more lucrative prospective investor could appear between now and then and convince MLS that the Cosmos owners aren't the ideal partners for #20. Especially considering the likely cost of the stadium.

I would've held off on any NASL participation myself, and sought exclusivity with MLS. But perhaps they feel this gives them a chance to jump start the earning of revenues. Perhaps NASL is doing better than I understand.


----------



## soup or man

MicroX said:


> Club Deportivo de Los Angeles would be a marketing nightmare.
> 
> You can kind of see why US sports team don't go with stuff like that.


Chivas Los Angeles could work. I found this on another forum.


----------



## Otto Racecar

GunnerJacket said:


> That depends.
> 
> Essentially, and someone correct me if I'm off a bit here, MLS is working with the City to first confirm a stadium site and will then work to find an owner. They want a 2nd NYC presence but don't want to resort to using a college stadium or something less than a standard MLS-worthy 18k venue.
> 
> MLS hasn't openly said they want that team to be the Cosmos because that brand is under a specific ownership that is obviously moving along for their own interests, as well. But all things being equal I'm guessing both would prefer to be working with one another. I take this announcement as a sign that the Cosmos felt they could get their ball rolling right now, knowing that MLS is easily 24+ months away from opening an new stadium in NYC. Their plan is probably to get the brand actually playing ball, build a presence and then seek to partner with the new stadium once MLS gets that secured with the City.
> 
> The risk, however, is that they could flounder as a franchise in NASL and another, more lucrative prospective investor could appear between now and then and convince MLS that the Cosmos owners aren't the ideal partners for #20. Especially considering the likely cost of the stadium.
> 
> I would've held off on any NASL participation myself, and sought exclusivity with MLS. But perhaps they feel this gives them a chance to jump start the earning of revenues. Perhaps NASL is doing better than I understand.


Those are my same thoughts. Its interesting that others have the same opinion. Although you have precedence that NASL teams like seattle, portland ,and vancouver can transition well to mls there is also now a potential situation in which the mls is on the record stating they want a 2nd new york team, is trying to find a stadium site and have potentially less leverage then they would have with any of the other expansion teams. I really believe its going to be the cosmos or nothing as a second ny franchise.


----------



## hngcm

soup or man said:


> Chivas Los Angeles could work. I found this on another forum.


That's awful.

The whole point is to step out of Chivas' shadow.

They need re-branding (and a move down south..)


----------



## JJG

hngcm said:


> *That's awful*.
> 
> The whole point is to step out of Chivas' shadow.
> 
> They need re-branding (*and a move down south*..)


Why am I not suprised that the guy from San Diego is saying this....? :lol:

But seriously, I agree. With the "move down south" part, anyway.


----------



## Anubis2051

The House that Jeter Built setup for tonight's game:









Don't like it one bit - Yankee Stadium should be used for baseball only during the season. I don't even want to think about what this is going to do to the field afterwards.


----------



## ryebreadraz

I talked to some of the Dodger Stadium guys and they said that with one game and then the Yankees not playing at home until Friday that getting the field back in shape is easy so it doesn't sound like there would be a problem.


----------



## hngcm

Yeah soccer isn't as damaging to fields as football is


----------



## ChesterCopperpot

Here's Fenway ready for the Liverpool vs Roma game on Wendesday night


----------



## Scba

Sorry, soccer just doesn't work for Fenway. Not at all.


----------



## nomarandlee

Soccer at Wrigley...Zaglebie Lubin 0 
AS Roma 4

http://galleries.apps.chicagotribune.com/chi-soccer-at-wrigley-field-photos-0722/

photos via the Chicago Tribune

AS Roma plays Zaglebie Lubin during a soccer friendly at Wrigley Field. — Scott Strazzante, Chicago Tribune, July 22, 2012


----------



## trmather

Why are they playing the games in baseball stadiums?


----------



## ryebreadraz

trmather said:


> Why are they playing the games in baseball stadiums?


Because they aren't going to fill a 75k football stadium and many of those would require laying out grass over turf, which makes for an awful surface and costs roughly $1 million. It's much easier to play in a baseball stadium, which has a capacity more conducive to the matches, doesn't cost as much to host and, generally, are more centrally located.


----------



## krnboy1009

Scba said:


> Sorry, soccer just doesn't work for Fenway. Not at all.


Neither does baseball :banana:


----------



## BoulderGrad

ryebreadraz said:


> Because they aren't going to fill a 75k football stadium and many of those would require laying out grass over turf, which makes for an awful surface and costs roughly $1 million. It's much easier to play in a baseball stadium, which has a capacity more conducive to the matches, doesn't cost as much to host and, generally, are more centrally located.


Also, the 3 stadiums used are fairly famous venues with a lot of history (well, some of them...) : Yankee Stadium, Fenway, and Wrigley


----------



## krudmonk

Those all look terrible, just like hockey on baseball diamonds.


----------



## Darloeye

Looks weird having soccer played in a baseball stadium.


----------



## jay stew

trmather said:


> Why are they playing the games in baseball stadiums?


Because it's gimmicky.


----------



## bd popeye

NASL from Wrigley Field, Chicago IL 06.28.1981

NY Cosmos Vs Chicago Sting..

Sorry..a poor quality video.


----------



## joezierer

ryebreadraz said:


> Because they aren't going to fill a 75k football stadium and many of those would require laying out grass over turf, which makes for an awful surface and costs roughly $1 million. It's much easier to play in a baseball stadium, which has a capacity more conducive to the matches, doesn't cost as much to host and, generally, are more centrally located.


There's college stadiums or smaller community stadiums that could work.


----------



## Lumbergo

You people are making a fuss over nothing.


----------



## carnifex2005

joezierer said:


> There's college stadiums or smaller community stadiums that could work.


Not in big cites and near downtown. In addition, you can't drink beer at college stadiums.


----------



## sbutlik

*stade saputo 100% completed?*


----------



## Neda Say

Nice...


----------



## MegasAlexandros

It's not quite complete yet. You can see that the roof covering the stand at the far end is still missing the panels underneath it. Also, in the same stand, you can see blue fences limiting how high up the fans can go because the top part of that stand (ie. the newly built part) still does not have the individual seats installed. But it's almost there...

Either way, I agree with Neda Say, it's a very nice and intimate 20K-seater. Hopefully the fans in Montreal can fill it consistently from now on.


----------



## will101

carnifex2005 said:


> In addition, you can't drink beer at college stadiums.


Who told you that? It actually depends on the state, locality, college or event. I know that I have purchased beer at Stanford Stadium in the past.


----------



## will101

Just an update: the San Jose Earthquakes have stamped a big "SOLD OUT" image on their page for suite sales. Now if we could get some sort of time line for construction ...

http://www.sjearthquakes.com/newstadium/luxury-suites


----------



## Cjones2451

will101 said:


> Just an update: the San Jose Earthquakes have stamped a big "SOLD OUT" image on their page for suite sales. Now if we could get some sort of time line for construction ...
> 
> http://www.sjearthquakes.com/newstadium/luxury-suites


 
If they have sold out before the shovels are in the ground, shouldn't they look at augmenting the plans and add more?:bash:


----------



## Bobby3

jay stew said:


> Because it's gimmicky.


This. Same reason you occasionally see a college football game in one. It's a novelty, and it sells.


----------



## will101

Cjones2451 said:


> If they have sold out before the shovels are in the ground, shouldn't they look at augmenting the plans and add more?:bash:


Either that, or get going on the shovels. Especially while the team has the best record in the league. At least do _something_.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Anyone watched the MLS ASG yesterday? It gave me another reminder about how underrated PPL Park is.


----------



## Texas_giant

kerouac1848 said:


> Yeah but no team in Europe plays in a country of 25 million people where there are only 3 professional football clubs in total and all more than 100 miles apart from each other. There are also a load of local factors to consider like fan violence, crumbing grounds, low purchasing power, monopoly of competition by one club which devalues a league, etc, all of which impact on interest and thus attendance.
> 
> You have to remember the context is totally different across the Atlantic which makes current comparisons between the US and Europe quite futile.


Big footy matches like the euros and WC finals get higher raw numbers in Canada than they do in the US, and Canada has only 10% of the population of the US. you also have to consider that canada has a lot of bigger sports, so that should give you an idea of where footy stands in america at the moment. 

However, there are lots of immigrants coming in from all over the world, and also from south of the border, so I wouldn't be surprised if it picks up though.


----------



## joezierer

Texas_giant said:


> Big footy matches like the euros and WC finals get higher raw numbers in Canada than they do in the US, and Canada has only 10% of the population of the US. you also have to consider that canada has a lot of bigger sports, so that should give you an idea of where footy stands in america at the moment.
> 
> However, there are lots of immigrants coming in from all over the world, and also from south of the border, so I wouldn't be surprised if it picks up though.


Yes all the major pro sports in Canada like

- Hockey
-
-
-


----------



## MS20

joezierer said:


> Yes all the major pro sports in Canada like
> 
> - Hockey
> -
> -
> -


CFL has average attendance of over 25,000. I would think that counts as well.


----------



## joezierer

MS20 said:


> CFL has average attendance of over 25,000. I would think that counts as well.


I guess, but two sports is still not more than 4 sports.


----------



## MS20

joezierer said:


> I guess, but two sports is still not more than 4 sports.


True, but I think he was comparing it to soccer though. There's not many countries in the world that soccer has 2 other sports ahead of it. Its doing pretty well for a sport that is anywhere between 3-7 in popularity in Canada, and 5-12 in the US. Baby steps.


----------



## krudmonk

joezierer said:


> I guess, but two sports is still not more than 4 sports.


The NBA and MLB still have a presence among Canadian sports fans, not to mention those who watch the NFL in addition to CFL. Furthermore, hockey is so strong that they also go nuts for juniors.


----------



## Texas_giant

joezierer said:


> Yes all the major pro sports in Canada like
> 
> - Hockey
> -
> -
> -


No need to get defensive. 

MLB and NBA get a lot of attention because of their respective teams. Canadian Football is easily the second biggest sport there. 

So either way, you point about 2 sports or 4 sports is invalid. Canada is still less than 1/10 of the US in terms of population, yet it manages equivalent raw numbers for big footy games(more in some cases). This in spite of the massive numbers of latino's and other foreigners in the US, which in and of itself is more than the entire population of Canada. 

Football may be a rising sport in america, but its still got a long long long way to go.


----------



## krnboy1009

^Depends on what part of Canada you are at.


----------



## MS20

krnboy1009 said:


> ^Depends on what part of Canada you are at.


Whats the biggest sport in Yukon? Fishing?


----------



## joezierer

Texas_giant said:


> No need to get defensive.
> 
> MLB and NBA get a lot of attention because of their respective teams. Canadian Football is easily the second biggest sport there.
> 
> So either way, you point about 2 sports or 4 sports is invalid. Canada is still less than 1/10 of the US in terms of population, yet it manages equivalent raw numbers for big footy games(more in some cases). This in spite of the massive numbers of latino's and other foreigners in the US, which in and of itself is more than the entire population of Canada.
> 
> Football may be a rising sport in america, but its still got a long long long way to go.


You're trying to argue that Canada is embracing soccer faster than Americans which is just wrong. You talk about Baseball and Basketball but only one city in Canada has a team in either (Toronto). Vancouver and Montreal have only competition in the summer time when the NHL is out of season from the CFL. 

In the US we have Baseball and for part of the season, NBA, NFL, College Football, College Basketball, and the NHL whereas in Canada it's the NHL and the CFL.

There is a lot more competition in the USA in sports, nevermind the fact that *most (not all)* of the teams in the "Latino Market" are actually in the suburbs and no where near that market, which means your commentary about latinos is worthless.


----------



## JJG

joezierer said:


> In the US we have Baseball and for part of the season, NBA, NFL, College Football, College Basketball, and the NHL whereas in Canada it's the NHL and the CFL.


You could even throw NASCAR into that mix.....


----------



## Texas_giant

You are right, soccer is of mammoth proportions in America


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^Fun pissing contest....

So... Earthquakes stadium? Started yet? Any new USL or NASL stadiums to speak of?


----------



## Darloeye

BoulderGrad said:


> ^^Fun pissing contest....
> 
> So... Earthquakes stadium? Started yet? Any new USL or NASL stadiums to speak of?


Any news......? 

Anymore news about New Englands or DC's new grounds ?


----------



## carnifex2005

Darloeye said:


> Any news......?
> 
> Anymore news about New Englands or DC's new grounds ?


New England? They're never getting a new ground unless Kraft sells the team. DC finally got some big money ownership so they might be able to finally get one within DC city limits. That won't be for a few years though.


----------



## Darloeye

carnifex2005 said:


> New England? They're never getting a new ground unless Kraft sells the team. DC finally got some big money ownership so they might be able to finally get one within DC city limits. That won't be for a few years though.


hno: Both need new stadiums soon tho.


----------



## ryebreadraz

Texas_giant said:


> No need to get defensive.
> 
> MLB and NBA get a lot of attention because of their respective teams. Canadian Football is easily the second biggest sport there.
> 
> So either way, you point about 2 sports or 4 sports is invalid. Canada is still less than 1/10 of the US in terms of population, yet it manages equivalent raw numbers for big footy games(more in some cases). This in spite of the massive numbers of latino's and other foreigners in the US, which in and of itself is more than the entire population of Canada.
> 
> Football may be a rising sport in america, but its still got a long long long way to go.


It's not as equivalent as you make it out to be. The Euro final had over 5 million viewers in the US, compared to just 3 million in Canada. Meanwhile the 2010 World Cup final drew 5.1 million viewers in Canada and over 24 million in the US. Obviously the US is bigger, but the numbers aren't so equivalent.


----------



## Texas_giant

ryebreadraz said:


> It's not as equivalent as you make it out to be. The Euro final had over 5 million viewers in the US, compared to just 3 million in Canada. Meanwhile the 2010 World Cup final drew 5.1 million viewers in Canada and over 24 million in the US. Obviously the US is bigger, but the numbers aren't so equivalent.


more than 20% of the Canadian population was watching the 2010 world cup final, not even 8% of the people were watching in the US, where according to you guys Soccer(as it's so formally called) is a major sport


----------



## bd popeye

Texas_giant said:


> more than 20% of the Canadian population was watching the 2010 world cup final, not even 8% of the people were watching in the US, where according to you guys Soccer(as it's so formally called) is a major sport


Origin of the Word Soccer



> Same as the origins of soccer as a game, the origin of the word soccer can be attributed to different countries. As you probably know already, the game itself wasn't invented by the English, but it was them who popularized it and organized it under a strict set of rules.
> 
> Nowadays, the word soccer is usually attributed to Americans, but just like the above example, it was not the Americans who first used or invented the word, they were simply the ones that used it to full effect.
> 
> So where did the word soccer come from? I'll try to solve this mystery in the article ahead. You probably know of the slight dispute revolving around the word "soccer". The English will never agree to use the term "soccer" around what they call "football" for centuries.
> 
> Paradoxally, the origin of the word soccer comes from…you guessed, England. But in order to fully understand what I'm talking about, keep reading ahead as I'll share some of the beautiful history of soccer.
> 
> The date of October 26th 1863 is to soccer what March 4th 1787 is to the United States. It's the day that several soccer clubs all around England gathered up in London and formed The Football Association, the first soccer organization up to that date.
> 
> The reason I compared this date to the day the United States Constitution was adopted because the Football Association organized the game into a sportive "constitution" called the Laws of Football. The term "soccer" appeared shortly after, being an abbreviation from "Football Association" (from assoc.) and although not as heavily used as soccer, it was a short, light form to describe the phenomenon.
> 
> Reportedly, the man who stands at the origin of the word soccer is Charles Wreford Brown, an Oxford student who always preferred shortened versions of words, such as brekkers for breakfast, or rugger for rugby.
> 
> Soccer gained popularity in the United States later than in the rest of Europe and since the Americans already had a use for the world "football" in understanding the sport of American Football, a middle option was tried on in between 1945 and 1975, when the organization that controlled soccer in the USA was called the "United States Soccer Football Association".
> 
> Besides being long, the name was still confusing so after 1974 it simply adopted the name of "United States Soccer Federation" and the word "soccer" would define the sport in the US area ever since.
> 
> It's often mistakenly thought that the United States are the only country that uses the term soccer for what is traditionally known as football in Europe, Asia and other parts of the World. However, the new name was adopted by other countries, specifically those that associated football to a different sport prior to soccer being popular. Such countries include Australia, Canada, New Zealand and some parts of Ireland.


----------



## Darloeye

Soccer, Hey I said it. I love saying SOCCER around my mates cos it pisses them right off haha


----------



## MS20

Texas_giant said:


> more than 20% of the Canadian population was watching the 2010 world cup final, not even 8% of the people were watching in the US, where according to you guys Soccer(as it's so formally called) is a major sport


Those 22 million that watched both the US get knocked out, and those 25 million that watched the final are both bigger than baseball world series and NBA/NHL finals ratings on any given year. 

So, just how small is baseball and basketball then? Must be pretty obscure sports. I mean how can any so called popular sport only attract 5% of the population? Baseball must be really struggling... oh wait.


----------



## Texas_giant

MS20 said:


> Those 22 million that watched both the US get knocked out, and those 25 million that watched the final are both bigger than baseball world series and NBA/NHL finals ratings on any given year.
> 
> So, just how small is baseball and basketball then? Must be pretty obscure sports. I mean how can any so called popular sport only attract 5% of the population? Baseball must be really struggling... oh wait.


16 million, not 22...and the final was the most awaited most watched game of the year on the entire planet that only occurs once every 4 years..where as the world series or nba finals are spread over 7 games, not to mention the fact that they are individual cities playing each other instead of something that's relevant to the entire nation.


----------



## BoulderGrad

FFS... Soccer Stadiums...


----------



## MS20

Texas_giant said:


> 16 million, not 22...and the final was the most awaited most watched game of the year on the entire planet that only occurs once every 4 years..where as the world series or nba finals are spread over 7 games, not to mention the fact that they are individual cities playing each other instead of something that's relevant to the entire nation.


Having just had a look, the round of 16 game was actually 19.8m, combining for ABC and Univision. So not 22m, but not your 16m figure either. 

As for that other drivel regarding NBA/baseball, this was your quote:



> not even 8% of the people were watching in the US, where according to you guys Soccer(as it's so formally called) is a major sport


But now the line "oh but it comes around every 4 years, blah blah blah...oh but NBA is cities vs cities blah blah blah". We were discussing facts, like how some soccer games outdrew these all encompassing sports in a country where its seen as a minority sport still. 

Says alot. Nice work on trying to disguise your soccer trolling with the use of "football" by the way. You'll be bashing your head against the wall a lot more as it continues its climb upwards.


----------



## Darloeye

Also soccer is cheaper to watch in the usa when nba/nhl have higher prices due to smaller venues.


----------



## vadin

Darloeye said:


> Also soccer is cheaper to watch in the usa when nba/nhl have higher prices due to smaller venues.


Yup. Last year I found tickets to the Earthquakes game against Toronto on Stubhub for $2 a pop. I got my whole family of four into the game for around $20(tix plus shipping). That would never happen for the 3 major sports or hockey.


----------



## JJG

vadin said:


> Yup. Last year I found tickets to the Earthquakes game against Toronto on Stubhub for $2 a pop. I got my whole family of four into the game for around $20(tix plus shipping). That would never happen for the 3 major sports or hockey.


.... hockey is still a major sport, ya know. (The Big FOUR)


----------



## carnifex2005

Darloeye said:


> hno: Both need new stadiums soon tho.


DC United needs a stadium. New England doesn't as long as Kraft owns the teams since he already owns the stadium where they play now. Even with the 12k fans a game they get, as long as those same fans are visiting the mall he owns next door an extra 15 to 20 times per year, he's happy.


----------



## GOOT

vadin said:


> Yup. Last year I found tickets to the Earthquakes game against Toronto on Stubhub for $2 a pop. I got my whole family of four into the game for around $20(tix plus shipping). That would never happen for the 3 major sports or hockey.



That actually happens quite often in the major sports. Just a week ago I attended a game between the Nationals and Braves in DC. I grabbed tickets off stubhub for $3 each. I also went to an Orlando Magic game last year on a weeknight vs the Raptors and those tickets were $8.


----------



## Schorschico

carnifex2005 said:


> DC United needs a stadium. New England doesn't as long as Kraft owns the teams since he already owns the stadium where they play now. Even with the 12k fans a game they get, as long as those same fans are visiting the mall he owns next door an extra 15 to 20 times per year, he's happy.


You are probably right. It is just such a pity when you think the amount of people they could get playing closer to downtown Boston (or Cambridge  )


----------



## Texas_giant

MS20 said:


> Having just had a look, the round of 16 game was actually 19.8m, combining for ABC and Univision. So not 22m, but not your 16m figure either.
> 
> As for that other drivel regarding NBA/baseball, this was your quote:
> 
> 
> 
> But now the line "oh but it comes around every 4 years, blah blah blah...oh but NBA is cities vs cities blah blah blah". We were discussing facts, like how some soccer games outdrew these all encompassing sports in a country where its seen as a minority sport still.
> 
> Says alot. Nice work on trying to disguise your soccer trolling with the use of "football" by the way. You'll be bashing your head against the wall a lot more as it continues its climb upwards.


Well the fact is for the NBA finals, in the home market and surrounding markets, there was still a network penetration level of well over 60%. Even the playoffs get well over 30-40% for most teams home markets. That would never happen for "soccer" in the US, not even if the US was in the world cup final. Even the most watched soccer game in the history of the United states wouldn't have been watched by more than 10% of the population, something which is regularly achieved for big matches in *almost* every other country in the world. 

I'm sorry for your frustration, but my facts are solid.


----------



## vadin

GOOT said:


> That actually happens quite often in the major sports. Just a week ago I attended a game between the Nationals and Braves in DC. I grabbed tickets off stubhub for $3 each. I also went to an Orlando Magic game last year on a weeknight vs the Raptors and those tickets were $8.


Wow. I've never seen tickets that low for my local teams(Giants, 49ers, Warriors, Sharks), The stubhub tickets for those games are normally more than the face value of the ticket. Getting $20 face value tickets for 10% of the price is incredible to me, and in all of the years I've been going to games I've never seen anything even close to that for any of the other teams in my local market.


----------



## El Mariachi

GOOT said:


> That actually happens quite often in the major sports. Just a week ago I attended a game between the Nationals and Braves in DC. I grabbed tickets off stubhub for $3 each. I also went to an Orlando Magic game last year on a weeknight vs the Raptors and those tickets were $8.


Yeah, that's pretty common for major league sports teams on weeknights. I've heard of New Jersey Nets tickets going for $0.39 cents.


----------



## Darloeye

El Mariachi said:


> Yeah, that's pretty common for major league sports teams on weeknights. I've heard of *New Jersey Nets *tickets going for $0.39 cents.


No Team Exist Anymore :dunno:


----------



## krnboy1009

The Game Is Up said:


> Federal judge rules for US Soccer Federation, Major League Soccer in antitrust suit
> What would a soccer team in Queens mean for the New York Red Bulls
> 
> It looks like the Dynamo is close to being sold to Leslie Alexander:
> 
> http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/1...-alexander-in-negotiations-to-purchase-dynamo
> 
> Yeah, the stadium sure was a good idea, huh? At least it removes the fear of a conflict of interests over AEG's stake in the team.


Doesnt matter, AEGs own multiple MLS teams even without Houston.


----------



## will101

krnboy1009 said:


> Doesnt matter, AEGs own multiple MLS teams even without Houston.


Right now AEG owns 100% of the Galaxy, 50% of the Dynamo, and 49% of the second level Swedish team Hammarby IF. That's it for soccer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anschutz_Entertainment_Group


----------



## BoulderGrad

will101 said:


> Right now AEG owns 100% of the Galaxy, 50% of the Dynamo, and 49% of the second level Swedish team Hammarby IF. That's it for soccer.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anschutz_Entertainment_Group


Used to be 6 teams in MLS.


----------



## KLynch

Not real familiar with the dynamics or politics of NYC, but is being in Queens that much better than being in North Jersey? Do the Red Bulls stand a chance if this happens?


----------



## ryebreadraz

Yeah, once AEG sells their share of the Dynamo then they will only own the Galaxy and Dallas and Columbus, both owned by the Hunts, will be the only teams left with the same owner.


----------



## MicroX

Anybody think the MLS is expanding a little too fast?


----------



## adeaide

*Stade Saputo , Montreal*


----------



## hngcm

MicroX said:


> Anybody think the MLS is expanding a little too fast?


Nope.


----------



## Lumbergo

as long as people are showing up to these soccer specific stadiums and the tv rating continue to improve, who cares how fast they expand?


----------



## matthemod

And also, recent expansions have been mostly examples of existing NASL and USL teams with an already present hardcore support to tap into, except for Philadelphia. I wouldn't really consider any of the expansions failures or anything.


----------



## joezierer

KLynch said:


> Not real familiar with the dynamics or politics of NYC, but is being in Queens that much better than being in North Jersey? Do the Red Bulls stand a chance if this happens?


Flushing is about as far away from Manhattan as Harrison (where RBNY play). However, most teams in New Jersey are an afterthought compared to teams in New York.

For example, the Knicks vs. the Nets. It's the same reason the Jets wanted to build a stadium in New York as opposed to playing NJ still.

Also Queens is New York City, whereas New Jersey isn't. It's like the difference between LA and Anaheim.


----------



## KLynch

I think when you brand a team as NJ, it will certainly keep the New Yorkers out, and outside of the Devils, it hasn't worked. Since they are called the NY Red Bulls, it would have been nice to see them try to pursue this Queens Stadium for the Red Bulls. There are plenty of cities that would love an MLS team, and it's not like the Red Bulls have a waiting list for tickets.


----------



## carnifex2005

KLynch said:


> I think when you brand a team as NJ, it will certainly keep the New Yorkers out, and outside of the Devils, it hasn't worked. Since they are called the NY Red Bulls, it would have been nice to see them try to pursue this Queens Stadium for the Red Bulls. There are plenty of cities that would love an MLS team, and it's not like the Red Bulls have a waiting list for tickets.


The Red Bulls did try to build a stadium in New York (Manhattan I think). It was estimatged to cost $500 million dollars, so they joined with AEG to build the current Red Bull Arena in New Jersey. AEG wanted to make it look like the Dallas or Columbus soccer stadiums with a stage and next to no roof and Red Bull said no, so they bought out AEG from the project and built it themselves.


----------



## BoulderGrad

The only problem with Red Bull arena is the area surrounding it. Not trying to dump on Newark or Harrison or anything, but the stadium is kinda in no-man's land. Regardless of what happens with the NY proposal, a few things will help out RBNY immensely:

-(Should put this twice) Finally developing the area surrounding the stadium as was originally planned.
-Redevelopment of the Harrison station.
-Finishing off the WTC Station of Path.


----------



## MicroX

Lumbergo said:


> as long as people are showing up to these soccer specific stadiums and the tv rating continue to improve, who cares how fast they expand?


I don't know but before some users were saying that the TV ratings are poor despite the good attendance.


----------



## carnifex2005

MicroX said:


> I don't know but before some users were saying that the TV ratings are poor despite the good attendance.


They aren't good but the TV ratings are better than they've been before, so expansion isn't hurting and may well be helping.


----------



## MS20

Whats the latest on NY2 and DC?


----------



## The Game Is Up

Rumblings about a stadium in Orlando:

http://www.scoringthird.com/2012/08/orlando-city-stadium-deal.html#more


----------



## master_klon

Finally an announcement about the San Jose Earthquakes proposed stadium.

_San Jose Earthquakes Club President Dave Kaval will make a major announcement regarding the club’s new stadium project during a press conference prior to Saturday’s game against the Colorado Rapids. The press conference will begin at 6 p.m. PT in the Epicenter Fan Zone and will be open to all fans attending the match. Kaval will be available for questions from media following the press conference._

Hopefully it's good news.


----------



## BoulderGrad

master_klon said:


> Finally an announcement about the San Jose Earthquakes proposed stadium.
> 
> _San Jose Earthquakes Club President Dave Kaval will make a major announcement regarding the club’s new stadium project during a press conference prior to Saturday’s game against the Colorado Rapids. The press conference will begin at 6 p.m. PT in the Epicenter Fan Zone and will be open to all fans attending the match. Kaval will be available for questions from media following the press conference._
> 
> Hopefully it's good news.


That would be a pretty big downer to give bad news at a pregame press conference. 

Hey everyone. Hope you have a good time at the game... btw, we dont have any money to build our stadium... so we wont....


----------



## will101

BoulderGrad said:


> That would be a pretty big downer to give bad news at a pregame press conference.
> 
> Hey everyone. Hope you have a good time at the game... btw, we dont have any money to build our stadium... so we wont....


All twelve (count 'em!) suites have been sold out for a while, so there is _some_ money around. I bet they will start construction in the fall, but now they are looking at a 2014 opening. And if they're smart, they add suites.


----------



## master_klon

BoulderGrad said:


> That would be a pretty big downer to give bad news at a pregame press conference.
> 
> Hey everyone. Hope you have a good time at the game... btw, we dont have any money to build our stadium... so we wont....


:lol: haha that's true, silly of me to think otherwise. I have heard that they are breaking ground on 21 October, that might be the announcement.


----------



## Fabio1976

http://queens.ny1.com/content/top_s...um-would-be-big-win-for-queens--lawmaker-says


----------



## master_klon

*Quakes announce groundbreaking date for new stadium​*




The San Jose Earthquakes announced today that the club will break ground on its new privately financed 18,000-seat stadium at 1125 Coleman Ave. in San Jose with a public ceremony on Sunday, Oct. 21. To celebrate the landmark event, the Earthquakes will aim to break the Guinness World Record for most people taking part in a groundbreaking ceremony, a figure that stands at 4,532. The ceremony is free to attend and will take place the same day as the club’s final home match of the MLS regular season, a 4 p.m. PT date with the LA Galaxy. The Quakes’ first season in the new stadium is now set for 2014.

Additionally, the Quakes announced that club seats at the new stadium are sold out. With luxury suites and club seats sold out, general seating in the new stadium will go on sale Tuesday, Oct. 23. Current season tickets holders will have first priority to purchase tickets for the new stadium. The priority order will be set based on tenure as a season ticket holder. Season ticket holders will receive more information in the coming week regarding their specific account. In order to reserve a spot in the priority queue for the new stadium, fans can purchase season tickets for 2013, the final season at Buck Shaw Stadium.

“Our organization strives to be the most inclusive and community-focused professional sports organization in the country,” said Earthquakes Club President Dave Kaval. “Instead of a golden shovel groundbreaking, we wanted everyone in the local community to participate equally in this historic event. The groundbreaking will be a celebration of the robust soccer lineage the Bay Area has cultivated since the original San Jose Earthquakes were founded in 1974. We hope that everyone joins us in this record attempt for a day that no one will forget.” To guarantee a spot in the ceremony, fans should RSVP by registering at www.sjearthquakes.com/groundbreaking. Each fan that registers will receive a voucher via email that needs to be presented on the day of the ceremony. Anyone planning to attend can park for free starting at 10:30 a.m. at the new stadium site on the corner of Coleman Ave. and Newhall Ave. Check-in for diggers begins at 11:30 a.m. To ensure participation, fans should arrive before noon.

Kansas City-based 360 Architecture designed the Earthquakes new stadium, which will be built by Milpitas’ Devcon Construction. 360 Architecture has a track record of developing top-notch sports facilities, including MetLife Stadium in New Jersey, home of the NFL’s New York Giants and New York Jets, and American Airlines Arena, home of the NBA’s Miami Heat. Devcon Construction has been a leader in the construction industry since it was founded in 1976 and has built over thirty million square feet of office, commercial and industrial space throughout Northern California. Devcon is currently building a new stadium for the San Francisco 49ers in partnership with Turner Construction set to open in 2014.


----------



## bd popeye

Congradulations San Jose!..

Now we await someday a DC United announcement of an SSC...Then maybe someday a NE Rev SSC. Someday.


----------



## soup or man

All that's needed is DC and the Revolution.


----------



## will101

master_klon said:


> *Quakes announce groundbreaking date for new stadium​*


:cheers:


> The San Jose Earthquakes announced today that the club will break ground on its new privately financed 18,000-seat stadium at 1125 Coleman Ave. in San Jose with a public ceremony on Sunday, Oct. 21. To celebrate the landmark event, the Earthquakes will aim to break the Guinness World Record for most people taking part in a groundbreaking ceremony, a figure that stands at 4,532. The ceremony is free to attend and will take place the same day as the club’s final home match of the MLS regular season, a 4 p.m. PT date with the LA Galaxy. The Quakes’ first season in the new stadium is now set for 2014.


 :cheers1:


> Additionally, the Quakes announced that club seats at the new stadium are sold out. With luxury suites and club seats sold out, general seating in the new stadium will go on sale Tuesday, Oct. 23. Current season tickets holders will have first priority to purchase tickets for the new stadium. The priority order will be set based on tenure as a season ticket holder. Season ticket holders will receive more information in the coming week regarding their specific account. In order to reserve a spot in the priority queue for the new stadium, fans can purchase season tickets for 2013, the final season at Buck Shaw Stadium.


:cheers2:


> “Our organization strives to be the most inclusive and community-focused professional sports organization in the country,” said Earthquakes Club President Dave Kaval. “Instead of a golden shovel groundbreaking, we wanted everyone in the local community to participate equally in this historic event. The groundbreaking will be a celebration of the robust soccer lineage the Bay Area has cultivated since the original San Jose Earthquakes were founded in 1974. We hope that everyone joins us in this record attempt for a day that no one will forget.” To guarantee a spot in the ceremony, fans should RSVP by registering at www.sjearthquakes.com/groundbreaking. Each fan that registers will receive a voucher via email that needs to be presented on the day of the ceremony. Anyone planning to attend can park for free starting at 10:30 a.m. at the new stadium site on the corner of Coleman Ave. and Newhall Ave. Check-in for diggers begins at 11:30 a.m. To ensure participation, fans should arrive before noon.


:booze:


> Kansas City-based 360 Architecture designed the Earthquakes new stadium, which will be built by Milpitas’ Devcon Construction. 360 Architecture has a track record of developing top-notch sports facilities, including MetLife Stadium in New Jersey, home of the NFL’s New York Giants and New York Jets, and American Airlines Arena, home of the NBA’s Miami Heat. Devcon Construction has been a leader in the construction industry since it was founded in 1976 and has built over thirty million square feet of office, commercial and industrial space throughout Northern California. Devcon is currently building a new stadium for the San Francisco 49ers in partnership with Turner Construction set to open in 2014.


:soon:


----------



## The Game Is Up

I know they've been having a great season so far but this news would really pull the Quakes out of soccer purgatory and help them gain attention in the soccer media.


----------



## Otto Racecar

Ok, here's a hypothetical situation. With San Jose currently sitting on top of the leaderboards with the most points in all of MLS it would be there right to host the MLS cup if they qualified. Does anyone know of any contingency plans to play the game at Stanford stadium or at any other location if that were to happen.I could potentially see conflicts with stanford football being back and I feel it would reflect poorly on the league for the cup to be played at buck shaw.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Unless the PAC12 title game is scheduled for Stanford's venue, which I highly doubt, that stadium should be free on Dec 1. I didn't see anything else on Stanford's site indicating another sport or activity would be using that day, either.

I can't fathom that MLS envisioned SJ hosting the final, but surely they've come up with a contingency. Playing in that small a venue for the game would be like leaving money on the table just from all the locals wanting to hop aboard the bandwagon for a day. Maybe they go back to Spartan Stadium? Or even Cal's renovated stadium.

Personally I prefered the previous model where they determined the venue in advance.


----------



## JJG

GunnerJacket said:


> Unless the PAC12 title game is scheduled for Stanford's venue, which I highly doubt, that stadium should be free on Dec 1. I didn't see anything else on Stanford's site indicating another sport or activity would be using that day, either.
> 
> I can't fathom that MLS envisioned SJ hosting the final, but surely they've come up with a contingency. Playing in that small a venue for the game would be like leaving money on the table just from all the locals wanting to hop aboard the bandwagon for a day. Maybe they go back to Spartan Stadium? *Or even Cal's renovated stadium*.
> 
> Personally I prefered the previous model where they determined the venue in advance.


Is the field wide enough for soccer?


----------



## bd popeye

JJG said:


> Is the field wide enough for soccer?


maybe.. there's 115 feet from the sideline to the first row of the grandstand and 125ft from the endzone to the grandstand. Does that make it large enough?


----------



## joezierer

bd popeye said:


> maybe.. there's 115 feet from the sideline to the first row of the grandstand and 125ft from the endzone to the grandstand. Does that make it large enough?


114 yd/74 yd is the reccomendation so I'd say it's fine.


----------



## will101

JJG said:


> Is the field wide enough for soccer?


If you are asking about Stanford, the Quakes hosted the Galaxy there on June 30, and drew 50,391. Stanford was designed to accommodate soccer.


----------



## ryebreadraz

Otto Racecar said:


> Ok, here's a hypothetical situation. With San Jose currently sitting on top of the leaderboards with the most points in all of MLS it would be there right to host the MLS cup if they qualified. Does anyone know of any contingency plans to play the game at Stanford stadium or at any other location if that were to happen.I could potentially see conflicts with stanford football being back and I feel it would reflect poorly on the league for the cup to be played at buck shaw.


The plan is to host it at Stanford Stadium. AT&T is also under consideration if Stanford is hosting the Pac-12 Title Game.


----------



## will101

Otto Racecar said:


> Ok, here's a hypothetical situation. With San Jose currently sitting on top of the leaderboards with the most points in all of MLS it would be there right to host the MLS cup if they qualified. Does anyone know of any contingency plans to play the game at Stanford stadium or at any other location if that were to happen.I could potentially see conflicts with stanford football being back and I feel it would reflect poorly on the league for the cup to be played at buck shaw.


This is interesting. If we make the rash assumption that both Stanford and the Quakes are the hosts, and the two games would originally be scheduled on the same day 15 miles apart, then something would have to give. It would be even worse if both games were scheduled to be on ESPN, but Fox has the Pac-12 game this year. If I were the Quakes, then I would go rent Candlestick Park, as the Niners will be out of town that weekend. Then just schedule the game so it doesn't conflict with the Pac-12.


----------



## JJG

will101 said:


> If you are asking about Stanford, the Quakes hosted the Galaxy there on June 30, and drew 50,391. Stanford was designed to accommodate soccer.


I was talking about Memorial Stadium (Cal).


----------



## will101

JJG said:


> I was talking about Memorial Stadium (Cal).


Sorry, I missed that. Cal is probably too narrow at the corners, and would need modifications like the Rose Bowl had. Post #84 below shows how tight things are there.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=644913&page=5


----------



## carnifex2005

Toyota has been announced as the sponsor of the NASL (US Div 2) San Antonio Scorpions new stadium. The 8000 seat stadium is currently being constructed and will be open in 2013. It will be called "Toyota Field".


----------



## JJG

carnifex2005 said:


> Toyota has been announced as the sponsor of the NASL (US Div 2) San Antonio Scorpions new stadium. The 8000 seat stadium is currently being constructed and will be open in 2013. It will be called "Toyota Field".


.... Toyota? 

That's a bit unexpected.


----------



## carnifex2005

will101 said:


> They might, especially against Canada. But you would have to deal with the artificial turf before hosting a qualifier there.


You can play FIFA matches on Seattle's, Portland's or Vancouver's turf. All are FIFA 2 star rated.


----------



## Darloeye

joezierer said:


> Shut up. This is the thread for American soccer stadiums and having some greenshirt pop in here and act like a shitheel is annoying. You can also get the **** out.


Its a Thread about American & Canadian Soccer Stadiums. :cheers:


----------



## MS20

hngcm said:


> Wouldn't a place like Seattle sell out a qualifier?


Against Jamaica? Nah. Mexico yes. Canada, could get close. The rest, I wouldn't have thought so.


----------



## Calvin W

Sorry JJG, and others, but I don't take crap from little punks.

So anyways back to the thread....


----------



## Fabio1976

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=8810675


----------



## will101

Going back a while to the discussion about a possible conflict between the Earthquakes hosting the MLS Cup, and Stanford hosting the Pac-12 Championship. I know that a lot of things have to happen, but one of them just did, with Stanford bumping off USC tonight. So if I were on the management of the Quakes, I'd be thinking about possible alternatives to Stanford Stadium.


----------



## carnifex2005

will101 said:


> Going back a while to the discussion about a possible conflict between the Earthquakes hosting the MLS Cup, and Stanford hosting the Pac-12 Championship. I know that a lot of things have to happen, but one of them just did, with Stanford bumping off USC tonight. So if I were on the management of the Quakes, I'd be thinking about possible alternatives to Stanford Stadium.


Heh. I was just thinking that when I was watching the game. It's going to be funny watching San Jose play for the MLS championship in a 10,000 seat stadium.


----------



## ryebreadraz

will101 said:


> Going back a while to the discussion about a possible conflict between the Earthquakes hosting the MLS Cup, and Stanford hosting the Pac-12 Championship. I know that a lot of things have to happen, but one of them just did, with Stanford bumping off USC tonight. So if I were on the management of the Quakes, I'd be thinking about possible alternatives to Stanford Stadium.


Maybe AT&T? The Quakes played there earlier this season and they could lay down the grass over the infield a few weeks earlier than usual then just leave it there for the bowl game later in the month.


----------



## will101

ryebreadraz said:


> Maybe AT&T? The Quakes played there earlier this season and they could lay down the grass over the infield a few weeks earlier than usual then just leave it there for the bowl game later in the month.


Maybe, but if the objective is the maximum amount of warm behinds in seats, i.e. dollars, they should probably look at Candlestick. Also it's several miles closer to SJ.


----------



## will101

carnifex2005 said:


> Heh. I was just thinking that when I was watching the game. It's going to be funny watching San Jose play for the MLS championship in a 10,000 seat stadium.


Buck Shaw Stadium is not an option for the MLS Cup.


----------



## Calvin W

will101 said:


> Buck Shaw Stadium is not an option for the MLS Cup.


Why is it not an option? Size? Availability?


----------



## deadhead262

Which US football(soccer) stadium has the highest capacity?


----------



## JJG

deadhead262 said:


> Which US soccer stadium has the highest capacity?


CenturyLink Field, but it's an NFL stadium, first, so that place can hold over 67,000, with 38,000 for MLS. 

As far as NON-NFL stadiums go, It's The Home Depot Center in Carson, California (27,000).


----------



## BoulderGrad

deadhead262 said:


> Which US football(soccer) stadium has the highest capacity?





JJG said:


> CenturyLink Field, but it's an NFL stadium, first, so that place can hold over 67,000, with 38,000 for MLS.
> 
> As far as NON-NFL stadiums go, It's The Home Depot Center in Carson, California (27,000).


Depends what you mean by soccer stadium as well. Yes, Home Depot Center is the largest purpose built soccer stadium. But many other stadiums are configured to handle soccer that aren't even used by MLS teams.

Centurylink is NOT the biggest in MLS. That Honor goes to Gilette stadium on Foxborough, MA (Overall capacity 68,756), however the Revs never come close to filling it and reduce capacity to about 20,000. Seattle is the only team that's come close to filling their NFL sized stadium with regular season matches (that don't involve David Beckham).

Beyond MLS, there's the Rose Bowl in Pasadena, CA, and the Cotton Bowl in Dallas, TX, both of which are configured to handle a soccer pitch and both of which can hold over 90,000 people. Both have bench seating, so capacity can vary quite a bit depending on how many people you try to cram in.


----------



## JJG

BoulderGrad said:


> Centurylink is NOT the biggest in MLS. That Honor goes to Gilette stadium on Foxborough, MA (Overall capacity 68,756), however the Revs never come close to filling it and reduce capacity to about 20,000.


Yyyyyyeaaah....... but still, CenturyLink does have the largest capacity for JUST if we're talking MLS. Seattle has 38,000 for the Sounders. Foxboro allows like what, 20,000 for the Revs.

I know there are plenty of stadiums used and/or can be used for MLS clubs like the Cotton Bowl, Cowboys, Reliant, Stanford Stadium, AT&T Park, the Rose, and so many more, but I'm really just refering to full time MLS stadiums. Honestly, I was thinking the question was just directed for SSS....


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

BoulderGrad said:


> Depends what you mean by soccer stadium as well. Yes, Home Depot Center is the largest purpose built soccer stadium. But many other stadiums are configured to handle soccer that aren't even used by MLS teams.
> 
> Centurylink is NOT the biggest in MLS. That Honor goes to Gilette stadium on Foxborough, MA (Overall capacity 68,756), however the Revs never come close to filling it and reduce capacity to about 20,000. Seattle is the only team that's come close to filling their NFL sized stadium with regular season matches (that don't involve David Beckham).
> 
> Beyond MLS, there's the Rose Bowl in Pasadena, CA, and the Cotton Bowl in Dallas, TX, both of which are configured to handle a soccer pitch and both of which can hold over 90,000 people. Both have bench seating, so capacity can vary quite a bit depending on how many people you try to cram in.


actually the LA Colosseum can hold over 93,000, so i think that would be the largest.


----------



## SJAnfield

will101 said:


> Going back a while to the discussion about a possible conflict between the Earthquakes hosting the MLS Cup, and Stanford hosting the Pac-12 Championship. I know that a lot of things have to happen, but one of them just did, with Stanford bumping off USC tonight. So if I were on the management of the Quakes, I'd be thinking about possible alternatives to Stanford Stadium.


I've talked with team president David several times, and he has stuck to his guns saying IF we were to host he cup, it would be at Buck Shaw. If the league stepped in or they decided to use a bigger venue, Spartan Stadium would be the only realistic option if Stanford is booked.


----------



## Otto Racecar

SJAnfield said:


> I've talked with team president David several times, and he has stuck to his guns saying IF we were to host he cup, it would be at Buck Shaw. If the league stepped in or they decided to use a bigger venue, Spartan Stadium would be the only realistic option if Stanford is booked.


I can see how he may feel that would give the earthquakes a home field advantage but REALLY? I mean never mind the lost revenue that you would have from playing in a 10,000 seat stadium but playing a MLS cup game there would certainly reinforce negative perceptions of the league as being minor league and would also make san jose look like a minor league operation.


----------



## will101

SJAnfield said:


> I've talked with team president David several times, and he has stuck to his guns saying IF we were to host he cup, it would be at Buck Shaw. If the league stepped in or they decided to use a bigger venue, Spartan Stadium would be the only realistic option if Stanford is booked.


That's bizarre. I was under the impression that the bridge between the Quakes and San Jose State was nothing but a smoldering ruin.


----------



## SJAnfield

will101 said:


> That's bizarre. I was under the impression that the bridge between the Quakes and San Jose State was nothing but a smoldering ruin.


It has been, however, SJSU has a new administration and are currently trying to put together some costly renovations to the stadium. New egos and some cash to help renovate the old place could be enough to get a deal done. 

In previous conversations with Kaval and other front office personnel, they like the additional exposure and revenue from the games at AT&T and Stanford, but the players and coaching staff don't like playing the games there because it's like an away game. They're accustomed to the pitch and workings of Buck Shaw. It would also be a hot ticket that would be a lo harder to get one's hands on causing ticket prices to skyrocket. This is was also the thinking in making the new stadium 15,000.


----------



## isaidso

Neither of these cities is riding on the coat tails of any other. They would all be popular with or without the city next door.


----------



## MS20

eMKay said:


> In attendance maybe, but obviously that would be impossible to match in Portland. Portland has the better atmosphere with the best fans in MLS, so in that sense, it is Seattle and Vancouver that has to catch up.


Portland doesn't have the difficult task of making an NFL stadium look and sound right. 20k SSS in Seattle would be every bit as good, if not better, than Portland.


----------



## bd popeye

JJG said:


> The... _Darth Vader_ Tower?




See the far end zone seats with the scoreboard that looks like some cell phone or other electronic device? That is the Darth Vader tower.


----------



## eMKay

MS20 said:


> Portland doesn't have the difficult task of making an NFL stadium look and sound right. 20k SSS in Seattle would be every bit as good, if not better, than Portland.


I'm referring to the fans, not the stadium.


----------



## Walbanger

So is there any clear reason why Seattle has such massive support for MLS while other cities are only pulling healthy crowds (on a global Soccer league level) ?


----------



## GunnerJacket

Walbanger said:


> So is there any clear reason why Seattle has such massive support for MLS while other cities are only pulling healthy crowds (on a global Soccer league level) ?


a) It's a niche sport and one that fits well with Seattle/ Pac Northwest culture;
b) The Sounders are a proud and successful club;
c) The ownership made a concerted effort to engage the fans in establishing this evolution of the franchise;
d) CenturyLink is a great venue in a great location, which has enticed the fans to push for these extremes;
e) Once it was clear they could assume this role of being THE franchise for MLS, it was something the Seattlites embraced as a proud challenge. They siezed the opportunity and now (rightfully) revel in it.

One man's opinion, anyway.


----------



## GunnerJacket

_Re: Portland vs Seattle vs Vancouver_

They're all doing very well in their own respects, are strong credits to MLS and soccer in North America and could prosper contently if one or the other two were absent. We can bicker all we want about comparing these three but I think its best agreed we're all better off having all three together.


----------



## Schorschico

krnboy1009 said:


> Theres a commuter rail service directly to Foxboro on game days.





krnboy1009 said:


> There is talk for regular commuter service to Foxboro.


Not trying to be mean but there is a huge difference between these two sentences.


----------



## Edvin

carnifex2005 said:


> Here's a nice pic from the Seattle Sounders / Portland Timbers match tonight. Sounders won 3-0 in front of 66,452 people. It was a sellout.


Have they opened up the whole stadium for MLS games? Looks amazing!


----------



## carnifex2005

Edvin said:


> Have they opened up the whole stadium for MLS games? Looks amazing!


The Sounders have opened the full stadium up for four matches this year, Chelsea (53k), Los Angeles (61k), Vancouver (56k) and Portland (66k).


----------



## isaidso

Good to see that the MLS opponents drew more fans than Chelsea. That's a sure sign that people in Seattle view MLS in high regard and don't fawn over old world teams when they show up.


----------



## MicroX

Does FIFA recommend a number of teams for a soccer league? All these stadiums, all this support and it seems like the MLS team count will increase.


----------



## krnboy1009

MLS has severely mismanaged expanding and managing franchises in NE USA, arguably the greatest sports market in the world. 

No where else do they spend more money on sporting events than cities like Philly, Boston, and NYC. 

Giving a team named RED BULL to one of the most traditional sports market in the world for example, is a sign of bad management.


----------



## MS20

krnboy1009 said:


> MLS has severely mismanaged expanding and managing franchises in NE USA, arguably the greatest sports market in the world.
> 
> No where else do they spend more money on sporting events than cities like Philly, Boston, and NYC.
> 
> Giving a team named RED BULL to one of the most traditional sports market in the world for example, is a sign of bad management.


Don't confuse "most traditional" with wealthy and populous. 



> events than cities like Philly, Boston, and NYC.


Didn't realise Philadelphia Union was a flop. Boston? The league needed Kraft, so this made obvious sense; and that could still have a happy ending. NYC? Well, NYRB don't play in NYC anyway. That story is about to start unfolding with the (hopefully) imminent stadium in Queens.


----------



## carnifex2005

MicroX said:


> Does FIFA recommend a number of teams for a soccer league? All these stadiums, all this support and it seems like the MLS team count will increase.


They don't recommend a number of teams but they do recommend a number of league games per season. FIFA wanted 34 games max for all top flight leagues but the EPL and all the other big leagues said no (because it would mean that the EPL and all those other leagues could only be 18 teams max with a traditional balanced schedule). 

That league game recommendation doesn't matter for MLS since they play an unbalanced schedule anyways.


----------



## MS20

MicroX said:


> Does FIFA recommend a number of teams for a soccer league? All these stadiums, all this support and it seems like the MLS team count will increase.


All FIFA recommend is that domestic fixtures don't get out of hand. Traditionally, soccer leagues play home and away for every fixture. MLS is currently tailored to meet 34 rounds, so the debate is moot. To give you a hypothetical example, MLS could expand to 40 teams, play each team once, and FIFA couldn't care less. It would only become a problem if teams started playing 50, 60 domestic fixtures, which MLS nor any other league are ever going to do. 

MLS will definitely increase to 20+, almost no doubt about that. There's always talk about introducing a second division down the line (only from fans), but that seems unlikely. There are ways of introducing divisions that may be acceptable by investors. But while the league is still relatively young, its a non starter.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

krnboy1009 said:


> MLS has severely mismanaged expanding and managing franchises in NE USA, arguably the greatest sports market in the world.
> 
> No where else do they spend more money on sporting events than cities like Philly, Boston, and NYC.
> 
> Giving a team named RED BULL to one of the most traditional sports market in the world for example, is a sign of bad management.


this is why people dont like north-easterners. what a baseless statement


----------



## will101

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> this is why people dont like north-easterners. what a baseless statement


I would say 'one of the reasons why'.


----------



## krnboy1009

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> this is why people dont like north-easterners. what a baseless statement


Its a fact. Look up sports attendance in 4 major sports leagues. Within 5 decades. Look up most valuable franchises in each of the 4 leagues. 

Red Sox
Phillies
Yankees
Mets
Rangers
Bruins
flyers
Eagles
Giants
Jets 
Patriots
Celtics
Knicks


ALL top 10 revenue earners in their respective leagues.


----------



## carnifex2005

krnboy1009 said:


> Its a fact. Look up sports attendance in 4 major sports leagues. Within 5 decades. Look up most valuable franchises in each of the 4 leagues.
> 
> Red Sox
> Phillies
> Yankees
> Mets
> Rangers
> Bruins
> flyers
> Eagles
> Giants
> Jets
> Patriots
> Celtics
> Knicks
> 
> 
> ALL top 10 revenue earners in their respective leagues.


Come back to me with the ages of those teams. I'm guessing all of them are top 10 as well.


----------



## MS20

krnboy1009 said:


> Its a fact. Look up sports attendance in 4 major sports leagues. Within 5 decades. Look up most valuable franchises in each of the 4 leagues.
> 
> Red Sox
> Phillies
> Yankees
> Mets
> Rangers
> Bruins
> flyers
> Eagles
> Giants
> Jets
> Patriots
> Celtics
> Knicks
> 
> 
> ALL top 10 revenue earners in their respective leagues.


By MLS standards, NYRB falls well within the top 10 revenue earners. Philadelphia probably makes MLS top 10 revenue earners list as well.


----------



## JJG

carnifex2005 said:


> Come back to me with the ages of those teams. I'm guessing all of them are top 10 as well.


Hmmm...



> Red Sox - 1901
> Phillies - 1883
> Yankees - 1901
> Mets - 1962
> Rangers - (_New York_, I'm guessing) 1926
> Bruins - 1924
> Flyers - 1967
> Eagles - 1933
> Giants - 1925
> Jets - 1960
> Patriots - 1959
> Celtics - 1946
> Knicks - 1946


The Flyers are the youngest of those franchises and they came into existance a year before my MOM was born.....


----------



## The Game Is Up

krnboy1009 said:


> Its a fact. Look up sports attendance in 4 major sports leagues. Within 5 decades. Look up most valuable franchises in each of the 4 leagues.
> 
> Red Sox
> Phillies
> Yankees
> Mets
> Rangers
> Bruins
> flyers
> Eagles
> Giants
> Jets
> Patriots
> Celtics
> Knicks
> 
> 
> ALL top 10 revenue earners in their respective leagues.


The past cannot easily predict the future. Right now, the population has shifted south and west, although substantial numbers remain in the northeast and central. The Dodgers were sold for over $3 billion recently. I would not bet against the economic power of California, even in its current crisis.

If anyone's to blame for Red Bull it's the cheapskate previous owners who didn't invest a cent into paying for a facility and then letting AEG take over, who chose to spend more of their time on the Galaxy. Everyone else was either too embarrassed to get involved with association football or were afraid of losing money.

People laugh at Red Bull now but at least they were willing to put up money for the stadium, while the Steinbrenners and Wilpons were busy scheming up ways to dip into tax money. Only now it's considered more "cool" to get involved in MLS. The only reason why we're even talking about Queens is because RBA opened. I wish the Metrostars name was kept but it is what it is.


----------



## GunnerJacket

krnboy1009 said:


> MLS has severely mismanaged expanding and managing franchises in NE USA, arguably the greatest sports market in the world.


The MLS of today has much more experience, market pull and money compared to 1995, so I think this is unfair. The stadium issue required a partner bold enough to take the first step and no one offered to do that in DC, NY or Boston. And as for branding and public relations MLS botched that _everywhere_, not just in the northeast. Of the original 10 teams 1 was folded, 4 were rebranded and 1 of those moved on top of that! In their desperation to stand apart from NASL they turned their backs on every established namesake, only to realize years later how valuable those were for market and community relations.

MLS didn't botch things in the northeast - they did it evenly across the country.



> Giving a team named RED BULL to one of the most traditional sports market in the world for example, is a sign of bad management.


Agreed, allowing a team to assume a purely corporate identity is asinine, but especially in your largest market.


LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> this is why people dont like north-easterners. what a baseless statement


Can I play?

"This is why people don't like Californians - Sweeping presumptions focused on the superficial."



carnifex2005 said:


> Come back to me with the ages of those teams. I'm guessing all of them are top 10 as well.


This isn't an excuse but rather a cause and rational explaination. The rust belt is the home of professional sports leagues in the US due to demographic history, so that culture is more deeply rooted in the northeast. This is why MLS is so hell bent on seeing #20 in NYC. (Likewise college sports in the southeast, extreme sports in the west, etc. Nothing wrong with that.) 



The Game Is Up said:


> The past cannot easily predict the future...


And this is why MLS and other league have made sure to expand across the nation. They're not blind.



> If anyone's to blame for Red Bull it's the cheapskate previous owners...


I still think MLS as a whole was shortsighted in developing their business plan. Had they entered existence with a firmer understanding of what was needed for each individual franchise to develop a sustainable home venue and strong community relations then much of this could've been avoided. Instead their single-entity model lead them to overlook that aspect and be overly focused on the macro picture and aspirations for national TV exposure.



> People laugh at Red Bull now...


I don't think anyone's laughing at Red Bull and knowledgeable fans are thankful for the investment. What we detest is the corporate branding of the club that makes the team a product of/for the company rather than New York's team.



> The only reason why we're even talking about Queens is because RBA opened.


MLS notes during the recent expansion push suggest otherwise, because they've at least considered a 2nd NYC team since before RBA broke ground. What's changed is that we've seen how these stadia are financial game changers for these teams, giving MLS just cause to be more aggressive in their efforts.

That and, depending on who you speak with, that MLS has realized the disconnect between RB and NYC, and the hopes are a new team (The Cosmos, obviously) might bridge that gap.


----------



## Welkin

carnifex2005 said:


> Here's a nice pic from the Seattle Sounders / Portland Timbers match tonight. Sounders won 3-0 in front of 66,452 people. It was a sellout.


Wow! That is an amazing picture. My hat off to the photographer who captured the image as well as to the Seattle fans who made the image possible. Again, just an amazing sight. However, comparing Seattle's situation to Portland's is just unfair to Timbers fans. Seattle plays in this gorgeous stadium which is just a wonderful place to watch a soccer match. Portland has to play in a converted baseball park which is just a dink of a stadium. I'll give Portland credit, they did a nice job turning PGE into a reasonable soccer stadium, but it is still just a converted baseball park. Too bad the Timber's owner didn't have the dime (or would not spend the dime) to build Portland's great fans a proper stadium worthy of their enthusiasm. Although I don't know if Portland could regularly fill a NFL size stadium, they could certainly fill a 30,000 seat stadium on a regular basis.


----------



## eMKay

If you ask me PGE Park is up there among the top 5, it's a converted baseball stadium yes, but it just ends up being so cool. It's really the atmosphere that makes it a great stadium but that roof, and the idiosyncrasies just scream soccer to me.


----------



## Welkin

eMKay said:


> If you ask me PGE Park is up there among the top 5, it's a converted baseball stadium yes, but it just ends up being so cool. It's really the atmosphere that makes it a great stadium but that roof, and the idiosyncrasies just scream soccer to me.


I agree that they did a very good job considering what they had to work with and it is nice to have a quirky stadium in a world full of cookie cutters. However, Portland fans have already maxed out its capacity and one day they will want an even larger place to accommodate their ever growing number of fans.

One day I hope they end up in something like this 31,000 seater in Poland.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Just posting this...

http://nextstl.com/downtown/major-league-soccer-stadium-may-be-part-of-new-union-station-vision

Not sure what to make of it but at least it's another new possibility.


----------



## Fabio1976

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/10/10/mls-officials-discuss-nyc-expansion-plans-eye-2016


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^So whats the expansion target list now?


-#20 New York Cosmos
-#21 Orlando City FC
-#22 AC Saint Louis
-#23 San Antonio Scorpions
-#24 Ottawa FC


----------



## Fabio1976

BoulderGrad said:


> ^^So whats the expansion target list now?
> 
> 
> -#20 New York Cosmos
> -#21 Orlando City FC
> -#22 AC Saint Louis
> -#23 San Antonio Scorpions
> -#24 Ottawa FC


And to bring the Chivas in San Diego.....


----------



## GunnerJacket

BoulderGrad said:


> ^^So whats the expansion target list now?
> 
> 
> -#20 New York Cosmos
> -#21 Orlando City FC
> -#22 AC Saint Louis
> -#23 San Antonio Scorpions
> -#24 Ottawa FC


Insert a large gap after Cosmos, then another larger gap after St. Louis. I'd even put St. Louis #2, and maybe Phd second. Orlando's recent support is good but the history is thin. MLS can't just react to recent stadium news.


----------



## carnifex2005

GunnerJacket said:


> Insert a large gap after Cosmos, then another larger gap after St. Louis. I'd even put St. Louis #2, and maybe Phd second. Orlando's recent support is good but the history is thin. MLS can't just react to recent stadium news.


The funny thing is in that list, only San Antonio actually has a stadium plan that already is under construction. I'd put them ahead of Orlando City at this point. St. Louis still is a pipe dream.


----------



## Elwin135

Apparently were doing something right!


> Arsenal chief Gazidis: Premier League clubs can learn from MLS
> Submitted by tribalfootball.com on Fri, 10/12/2012 - 00:58
> 
> Arsenal chief Ivan Gazidis feels the Premier League can learn more from MLS.
> 
> Gazidis called on English football to learn from Major League Soccer and co-operate more closely for the benefit of all.
> 
> The former MLS deputy commissioner said: "That's a league which does not have massive television revenues and, yet, in the space of the last decade, they have built across the US and Canada 15 new stadiums.
> 
> "They have put that infrastructure in place and I believe they've done that because, culturally, they've been able to think of each other not only as competitors but also as partners, and think very strategically about what they need to do in order to put in place the elements they need for future success.
> 
> "Football has not been good at that. It's not culturally part of our DNA and it's something that we need to work on.
> 
> "We need to work together to find solutions, because we're much, much stronger together."
> 
> 
> Read more at http://www.tribalfootball.com/artic...ubs-can-learn-mls-3587031#yU6t762sGqC3LM2f.99


http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/arsenal-chief-gazidis-premier-league-clubs-can-learn-mls-3587031


----------



## GunnerJacket

carnifex2005 said:


> The funny thing is in that list, only San Antonio actually has a stadium plan that already is under construction. I'd put them ahead of Orlando City at this point. St. Louis still is a pipe dream.


St. Louis simply needs the owner willing and able to step up and MLS is all over them. City with a proud soccer history (for the US), built in rivalries with KC and Chicago (which could use such games) and more resonance with the national sports scene than either San Antonio or Orlando. I'm not saying either of the other options is unattractive, but their veneer remains thin. The Scorpions are an infant program enjoying an owners largesse, including lots of ticket giveaways, while Orlando remains in their newlywed stage with the city. If both clubs produce die-hard supporters groups and sustain their draws then I've no problem with either joining the league, but everything I've tracked about MLS expansion and business news over the years suggests that given the choice the league stilll hungers for certain markets and St. Louis is one of them. 

That being said the second tier of US soccer could stand for some shoring up, as well. The fracture that gave birth to the current NASL may be working for those clubs for now but it's also muddied the waters for fans in general and hurts the clubs still trying to work with USL. I've no favoritism for either organization but I know that the potential to succeed at that level would be greater in a single league.


----------



## master_klon

BoulderGrad said:


> ^^So whats the expansion target list now?
> 
> 
> -#20 New York Cosmos
> -#21 Orlando City FC
> -#22 AC Saint Louis
> -#23 San Antonio Scorpions
> -#24 Ottawa FC


No more than 20. Orlando (or St Louis) and NY Cosmos to join, and relegate Chivas to NASL. Focus on building a stronger second division - NASL.


----------



## JJG

master_klon said:


> No more than 20. Orlando (or St Louis) and NY Cosmos to join, and relegate Chivas to NASL. Focus on building a stronger second division - NASL.


The relegation/promotion thing just isn't happening in this country....

Don't be shocked to eventually see 30 clubs in the MLS.


----------



## master_klon

^^ I never said there should be a promotion/relegation. Been discussed plenty of times here before and I've always said that it won't work in the US market in the foreseeable future. 

But let's just stop expanding for the sake of it and settle with a tidy 20 team league, same number as the Premier League. 

And why not focus on developing a strong second division? People will disagree with me, but I believe that people in the US will still support a good division 2 club even if it doesn't have the MLS carrot hanging in front of them. Plus, these clubs will still get their "big games" such as US Open Cup, Euro preseason friendlies, and the CONCACAF Champions League.


----------



## carnifex2005

master_klon said:


> ^^ I never said there should be a promotion/relegation. Been discussed plenty of times here before and I've always said that it won't work in the US market in the foreseeable future.
> 
> But let's just stop expanding for the sake of it and settle with a tidy 20 team league, same number as the Premier League.
> 
> And why not focus on developing a strong second division? People will disagree with me, but I believe that people in the US will still support a good division 2 club even if it doesn't have the MLS carrot hanging in front of them. Plus, these clubs will still get their "big games" such as US Open Cup, Euro preseason friendlies, and the CONCACAF Champions League.


It's because MLS doesn't care about the second division (nor should they by the way) and they'll take any team they deem have a rich enough owner and viable stadium plan. That is why it is far more likely that MLS won't stop at 20 and will just wait for who steps up for a new team.


----------



## GunnerJacket

carnifex2005 said:


> It's because MLS doesn't care about the second division (nor should they by the way) and they'll take any team they deem have a rich enough owner and viable stadium plan. That is why it is far more likely that MLS won't stop at 20 and will just wait for who steps up for a new team.


I used to think that way but now I'm not so sure. Part of MLS' new strategy appears geared towards profit on a per-seat or per-team basis. So just because some team like Orlando may look worthy MLS won't add them unless the return to the league is really there. Given that, I think we'll find teams 21 and 22 will have a more difficult time gaining entry. I agree MLS won't stop at 20 but the return to the league is becoming more expensive every year.


----------



## MS20

BoulderGrad said:


> ^^So whats the expansion target list now?
> 
> 
> -#20 New York Cosmos
> -#21 Orlando City FC
> -#22 AC Saint Louis
> -#23 San Antonio Scorpions
> -#24 Ottawa FC


Agree with 20-23 outside of St Louis. The stadium leak isnt great evidence.

NY2, San An and Orlando are the likeliest by some margin this decade. I would also throw in Minneapolis as a 4th option. Outside of those, there is nothing obvious. 

Mind you, you couldnt have guessed expansion targets in 2012 back in 2005, so the scene could change rapidly. Remember when it seemed like OKC was a certainty? Whatever happens, I'll get restless at 20. Needs to be 24!


----------



## SVB28

An STL team would be great for KC and Chicago, as it would give us and Chicago a good rival.

I wonder if they would play at Arrowhead (similar to SEA-POR) for that game if there were to become an STL team?


----------



## MS20

SVB28 said:


> An STL team would be great for KC and Chicago, as it would give us and Chicago a good rival.
> 
> I wonder if they would play at Arrowhead (similar to SEA-POR) for that game if there were to become an STL team?


I think the St Louis thing is based on some downtown MLS site study being leaked. Otherwise St Louis has been off the radar for some time. 

This: 
https://twitter.com/nextSTL/status/255760945207468033/photo/1


----------



## MS20

From BigSoccer:

San Jose










And a video of oversized cars with trunks doing their thing: http://twitpic.com/b4ijvi


----------



## MS20

USA 3-1 Guatemala, Kansas City, Livestrong Sporting Park


----------



## The Game Is Up

Flushing Meadows park planners find a soccer stadium idea not 'necessarily' terrible


----------



## GunnerJacket

The Game Is Up said:


> Flushing Meadows park planners find a soccer stadium idea not 'necessarily' terrible


Well there's some backhanded praise, for ya. The article provides a better sense of the support and of course the (rightly assigned) asterisk - It all depends on how the stadium would be done. 

Still, MLS has seemingly come up all aces, thus far, and that's promising both as a fan and as someone wanting the league to be fiscally sharp. 

Let the record show, however, that if MLS endows a second NYC club to anyone other than the Cosmos then this will not succeed as hoped.


----------



## samostalni

nice


----------



## LCIII

bd popeye said:


> See the far end zone seats with the scoreboard that looks like some cell phone or other electronic device? That is the Darth Vader tower.



Nope. That's the Columbia Center. Common mistake but the Darth Vader tower is in Belltown at 4th and Blanchard.


----------



## MS20

GunnerJacket said:


> Well there's some backhanded praise, for ya. The article provides a better sense of the support and of course the (rightly assigned) asterisk - It all depends on how the stadium would be done.
> 
> Still, MLS has seemingly come up all aces, thus far, and that's promising both as a fan and as someone wanting the league to be fiscally sharp.
> 
> *Let the record show, however, that if MLS endows a second NYC club to anyone other than the Cosmos then this will not succeed as hoped.*


Either way its a win for MLS.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Well, this is interesting. I'm not sure this would go any further than a letter from the mayor. Still, if this has any legs, for those who know US soccer history, this would be a sort of a coming to full circle.

Flanagan invites New England Revolution to make Fall River its home

Somewhat related but a video interview of Don Garber about the growth of MLS from Sportsbusiness Daily:

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/...es-and-Governing-Bodies/Garber-Interview.aspx


----------



## MS20

The Game Is Up said:


> Well, this is interesting. I'm not sure this would go any further than a letter from the mayor. Still, if this has any legs, for those who know US soccer history, this would be a sort of a coming to full circle.
> 
> Flanagan invites New England Revolution to make Fall River its home


Someone from the comments section:

"Why would Kraft move a team from a stadium he already owns?"

Because he wants to sell.


----------



## krnboy1009

Even if MLS cant match success of Seattle in NYC they should be having more success than they are actually having right now in NYC. 2nd team isnt the solution....yet. Make 1st team a success and then give the 2nd franchise. 

Start that by renaming the team.


----------



## will101

LCIII said:


> Nope. That's the Columbia Center. Common mistake but the Darth Vader tower is in Belltown at 4th and Blanchard.


When you take the tour of CenturyLink, they point that out as Darth Vader Tower.


----------



## BoulderGrad

will101 said:


> When you take the tour of CenturyLink, they point that out as Darth Vader Tower.


There's 2 buildings in Seattle cladded in darkly tinted glass. I've heard both of them referred to as 'the Darth Vader building'


----------



## Darloeye

^^ Can someone post a picture of the two Darth Vader Buildings please ?


----------



## will101

Darloeye said:


> ^^ Can someone post a picture of the two Darth Vader Buildings please ?


Here is the one identified by Wikipedia and LCIII:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_and_Blanchard_Building

And here is the one that I (and others apparently) thought was it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Center

The latter one is also identified as 'the box that the Space Needle came in'. The really ironic thing is that both buildings were designed by the same firm.


----------



## will101

*San Jose Earthquakes soccer fans set world record for groundbreaking*



> "It feels awesome!" said Becky Osorio, who dug a rather deep hole as she exhorted her two sons, Robert and Hector, to keep digging their own for two minutes without letting up. "We can't stop, boys. Keep digging!"
> 
> Refereed by officials with the authoritative Guinness World Records, exactly 6,256 people, most of them ordinary Quakes fans, surpassed the previous groundbreaking high mark of 4,532, set in India in 2007. Air cannons shot a cloud of blue and white confetti over the crowd when the record was announced, prompting jubilant Quakes fans to cheer and wave their shovels in victory.
> 
> Minus some Major League Soccer officials and dignitaries who showed up, that many fans would be enough to fill about a third of the 18,000 seats at the new stadium, which was designed for soccer and sits at Coleman Avenue and Newhall Street, across from Norman Mineta San Jose International Airport. Team officials said the large turnout Sunday bode well for season-ticket sales and the long-term success and stability of the team, something the franchise has not enjoyed since it was founded in 1974. The new facility is expected to open in 2014.
> 
> "I wasn't surprised," Earthquakes President Dave Kaval said. "Since it's been such a saga to get to this point, people wanted to celebrate."


The rest of the story and some pix can be found here:
http://www.mercurynews.com/bay-area...jose-earthquakes-soccer-fans-set-world-record


----------



## BoulderGrad

will101 said:


> Here is the one identified by Wikipedia and LCIII:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_and_Blanchard_Building
> 
> And here is the one that I (and others apparently) thought was it:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Center
> 
> The latter one is also identified as 'the box that the Space Needle came in'. The really ironic thing is that both buildings were designed by the same firm.


The "Box the space needle came in" is this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1001_Fourth_Avenue_Plaza

Built around the same time and about the same height.


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

matthemod said:


> Indeed they will! I just took it as an assumption!
> 
> Also it would be interesting to see a correlation between capacity and average attendance, I'm sure the Earthquakes would be at the top of that list.


Yeah probably. Buck Shaw's official capacity is 10,525 so San Jose attendance is well beyond the capacity of the stadium


----------



## WILLYGTO1

If Dallas gets a downtown stadium would have better attendance?


----------



## bd popeye

WILLYGTO1 said:


> If Dallas gets a downtown stadium would have better attendance?


Don't think that will move downtown anytime soon. FC Dallas moved into their SSS in 2005.


----------



## WesTexas

BergenScooterPatrol said:


> Will they change the name of this stadium to something else? Livestrong, is, will be always be associated with the disgraced Lance Armstrong, even if Livestrong, the advocacy, not the brand, is more concern nowadays with cancer research, cure, treatment and awareness.


How did Lance disgrace anything? Because he stopped fighting the charges because he is tired of waisting his money on something that wont die? Where is the evidence? Im really tired of this.

Sorry to hijack.


----------



## WesTexas

WILLYGTO1 said:


> If Dallas gets a downtown stadium would have better attendance?


It's a pro soccer team in the Football heart of America. Hard to sell Soccer to Texas.


----------



## Scoots71

Toyota Park in Chicago looked awful during the first round playoff televised game tonight against Houston. Announced crowd was just over 10,000 on a national TV game.


----------



## bd popeye

Scoots71 said:


> Toyota Park in Chicago looked awful during the first round playoff televised game tonight against Houston. Announced crowd was just over 10,000 on a national TV game.


It's was cool weather..and it was Halloween..which I abhor....

In Chicago the MLS gets little play in the media. I listen to 

*670 The Score « CBS Chicago*

..sports talk radio frequently and the Fire get nearly zero converge on that station..And I've never, ever heard anyone call in with discussion about the MLS or soccer ever in my eight years of listening.


----------



## JJG

WesTexas said:


> It's a pro soccer team in the Football heart of America. Hard to sell Soccer to Texas.


Not so much in Houston.... or San Antonio..... or El Paso (who is currently trying to get a club)....

It wouldn't be top 10, but I think a soccer specific stadium located somewhere closer to the heart of Dallas (or Fort Worth) would be better, at least.


----------



## slipperydog

Scoots71 said:


> Toyota Park in Chicago looked awful during the first round playoff televised game tonight against Houston. Announced crowd was just over 10,000 on a national TV game.


1) Halloween, 2) Weeknight, 3) Location 4) Three days notice, 5) Weather


----------



## Welkin

slipperydog said:


> 1) Halloween, 2) Weeknight, 3) Location 4) Three days notice, 5) Weather


Why am I guessing that those would not have been a problem in Portland, Seattle, LA, Montreal........ MLS still has massive room for improvement in many of its larger markets. Markets like Chicago will get there eventually (meaning you don't need perfect conditions for a playoff sellout), but they will just need more time.


----------



## rantanamo

WesTexas said:


> It's a pro soccer team in the Football heart of America. Hard to sell Soccer to Texas.


DFW has over a million hispanics, and is pretty diverse in its own right. The problem with FC Dallas Stadium is that its on the northern edge of the entire metro, situated in the middle of suburban residential subdivisions, sitting on a tollway. If they put it 5 miles south, it would probably gain 5,000 fans per match. Horrible, horrible location, and far away from the hispanic masses of DFW. Downtown Dallas or even somewhere like Las Colinas where it would at least be near actual freeways, rail line and other development, would garner much more excitement. Its just a bear to get to Frisco, let alone, the northern half of Frisco where FC Dallas Stadium is.


----------



## Otto Racecar

slipperydog said:


> 1) Halloween, 2) Weeknight, 3) Location 4) Three days notice, 5) Weather


While I have no doubt that all of those factors were part of the issue, it still is not a good situation for a team in a metro of over 9.5 million people and a stadium that seats 20,000. I mean I just sat through a meaningless end of season game between columbus and toronto that was pouring down rain and had temperatures in the 30's and attendance was still close to 16,000.Just very suprising that playoff attendance was that low even with all of the factors working against it.


----------



## eMKay

slipperydog said:


> 1) Halloween, 2) Weeknight, 3) Location 4) Three days notice, 5) Weather


None of these are valid excuses in this day and age, Here in Buffalo ( a much much smaller market) we sellout an entire NHL playoff series in 20 minutes, if the Bills ever have a home playoff game again (has not happened in the internet age yet) it will sell out in.......20 minutes. We sold out the first winter classic in guess how long?


20 minutes, lol


----------



## master_klon

Just look at those white markings and the Seahawks logos :lol: Oh well just like their supporters, no class.


----------



## eMKay

master_klon said:


> Just look at those white markings and the Seahawks logos :lol: Oh well just like their supporters, no class.


No class? That's a pretty harsh insult for leaving the big lines and logos. Seahawks got a game tomorrow. They removed the yard markers and hash marks, I watched the game it wasn't nearly as distracting as t could have been


----------



## bd popeye

eMKay said:


> No class? That's a pretty harsh insult for leaving the big lines and logos. Seahawks got a game tomorrow. They removed the yard markers and hash marks, I watched the game it wasn't nearly as distracting as t could have been


Exactly^^ having worked at Qualcomm Stadium security for a short time some years ago I can tell you it takes hours to paint those NFL logos on the field. I'm not sure but the logos may be required by the NFL for "game day"..


----------



## JJG

master_klon said:


> Just look at those white markings and the Seahawks logos :lol: Oh well just like their supporters, no class.


It takes longer to set up an NFL field than it does an NBA court. And they're not gonna completely change it for an MLS match. 

Remember which team owns that building....


----------



## isaidso

bd popeye said:


> Here's a final table for MLS attendance for 2012.this table shows a different total and average. Never the less great attendance by the MLS.


All 3 Canadian teams in the top 10.


----------



## bd popeye

isaidso said:


> All 3 Canadian teams in the top 10.


yea..but there's only 19 clubs..:|:tongue2:


----------



## carlosfng

eMKay said:


> None of these are valid excuses in this day and age, Here in Buffalo ( a much much smaller market) we sellout an entire NHL playoff series in 20 minutes, if the Bills ever have a home playoff game again (has not happened in the internet age yet) it will sell out in.......20 minutes. We sold out the first winter classic in guess how long?
> 
> 
> 20 minutes, lol


its a playoff, and hockey arenas are covered lol. not to mention that in a smaller city it is easier to get to the arena.


----------



## ChesterCopperpot

http://www.theuniondues.net/2012/11/27/new-soccer-specific-stadium-in-pittsburgh/

The Pittsburgh Riverhounds of the USL are currently constructing this


----------



## Fabio1976

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/11/26/sports/soccer/26reuters-soccer-mls.html?ref=soccer&_r=0


----------



## carnifex2005

File Under "Out of Nowhere": Tampa group planning $400m SSS


You sitting down? Good because there seems to be serious, on-the-downlow SSS talk in Florida. And in Tampa of all places.

According to a quasi-hidden website, "VSI Flames, Inc. (VSI Tampa Bay Flames) recently entered in to a formal agreement with its funding partner PRI Development Partners LLC for the purpose of providing the Tampa Bay region with a first class and purpose built soccer stadium along with a separate 20+ training field and Academy complex." 

And not just any old stadium but "a new purpose built 28,888 seat soccer stadium that will have a retractable roof and the ability to increase the capacity to 40,000." Apparently not content to simply fight Raymond James Stadium for the occasional USMNT matches, "the parties are committed to securing an MLS soccer franchise" for Tampa.


----------



## SVB28

Awesome! I would prefer a team in FL before a 2nd in NYC. After NYC's 2nd I would think a team in Atlanta, STL, or Memphis or another southern city would be best... and get rid or move Chivas


----------



## soup or man

Tampa doesn't even support the Rays. What makes people think they'll support an MLS team?


----------



## carnifex2005

soup or man said:


> Tampa doesn't even support the Rays. What makes people think they'll support an MLS team?


Probably because the Rays are in St. Petersburg and not in Tampa. This stadium will be in Tampa right beside the Lightning's arena. Here's a Google map link of the rumoured site.

Here's a link to the temporary stadium for the VSI Tampa Bay Flames who will play in USL Pro (US Div 3) in 2013 and are the group behind the stadium plan. The temp stadium (6000 - 8000 in size) is made by NUSSLI, who made a temp stadium for the BC Lions and Vancouver Whitecaps for a couple of years while BC Place was getting renovated.


----------



## adeaide

*MLS Expansion plan*


----------



## JJG

adeaide said:


>


I can only see two teams in Florida...


----------



## matthemod

Looking at that map really hits home the lack of MLS representation in the South (excluding Texas).


----------



## Lumbergo

the only reason Miami didn't work out before was that the stadium location absolutely sucked (an hour north of Miami and in the next county over. the lack of public tran in the area doesn't help) I don't know why Tampa folded, but if MLS returns to Central Florida I can't see Tampa AND Orlando both having a team.


----------



## Otto Racecar

Just out of curiosity, where did you find that map?


----------



## JJG

I've heard St. Louis may not be as possible as some people would want it....


----------



## Scba

I'd avoid Florida and Las Vegas like the plague.


----------



## KingmanIII

matthemod said:


> Looking at that map really hits home the lack of MLS representation in the South (excluding Texas).


SOCKER IS DA DEBBIL!!!!


----------



## The Game Is Up

Pepco, District officials discuss D.C. United stadium for Buzzard Point

Major League Soccer to Present New York City Stadium Plan

Riverhounds Hope New Stadium Makes Pittsburgh A Soccer Town

D.C. United focused on new stadium despite Kevin Payne's resignation


----------



## joezierer

KingmanIII said:


> SOCKER IS DA DEBBIL!!!!


I thought we had all agreed that americans weren't mouth breathing neanderthals anymore?


----------



## MS20

The Game Is Up said:


> Pepco, District officials discuss D.C. United stadium for Buzzard Point
> 
> Major League Soccer to Present New York City Stadium Plan
> 
> Riverhounds Hope New Stadium Makes Pittsburgh A Soccer Town
> 
> D.C. United focused on new stadium despite Kevin Payne's resignation


NY sounds a certainty with the way Garber is talking.


----------



## JJG

joezierer said:


> I thought we had all agreed that americans weren't mouth breathing neanderthals anymore?


He was making a reference to "The Waterboy"....


----------



## redspork02

MLS CUP TODAY! In LA......LA UP 2-1 VS HOUSTON DYNAMO.


----------



## krudmonk

Garber gets his way again....


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

LA With the Back to back!! 

Record attendance at HDC Today at 30,510. it was a great atmosphere too


----------



## joezierer

JJG said:


> He was making a reference to "The Waterboy"....


Well don't I look dumb.


----------



## nyrmetros

adeaide said:


>


Yea the southeast needs something.....


----------



## GunnerJacket

nyrmetros said:


> Yea the southeast needs something.....


- High speed rail
- More quality pizza joints
- Fewer flat-earth society types/_Honey Boo Boo_ fans
- A way for gnats and fire ants to kill each other

But yeah, I'd take an MLS franchise, too.

- - - - - - - -

PS: The map is nice and all, but the geography of several cities is more than a tad off. Last I checked Tampa and Orlando aren't that far apart, and he has Atlanta in Columbus, GA.


----------



## JJG

GunnerJacket said:


> - High speed rail
> - More quality pizza joints
> - Fewer flat-earth society types/_Honey Boo Boo_ fans
> - A way for gnats and fire ants to kill each other


One problem at a time, Gunner....


----------



## matthemod

Makes you wonder what's more likely, an MLS team in the south or a widespread acceptance of Evolution.


----------



## ryebreadraz

Don Garber did say that a team in Florida is a must for the league going forward so it will happen eventually.


----------



## koolio

Meh. Personally I hope they stop at 20.


----------



## JJG

koolio said:


> Meh. Personally I hope they stop at 20.


Depending on its success, I'd say they stop at 28, honestly.


----------



## JYDA

JJG said:


> Depending on its success, I'd say they stop at 28, honestly.


I agree. There's a massive footprint that needs to be covered.

The counterargument being the dilution of talent but that doesn't apply to MLS because the league does not exist in a vacuum. It's not the best league in the world and the player market is global. Any talent dilution is easily patched over with imports.


----------



## carnifex2005

Queeens Soccer Stadium Plan Unveiling Tomorrow

Major League Soccer inches closer and closer to putting shovels in the ground in Flushing Meadows. As part of the 2012 State Of The League teleconference, Commissioner Don Garber happily talked up their work to move the stadium plan forward, claiming the league was "at the finish line" when it came to finalizing the agreement with the city.

The league's current plan is to have a 10- to 13-acre site (up from what was initially described originally as eight), and that a team would potentially begin playing at the site in 2016. The league remains tight-lipped about potential ownership groups who would be willing to pay the $100 million franchise fee, but those who follow European soccer will not be surprised to learn that the Middle East is apparently interested. Telegraph Sport reported late in November that both Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan (who owns Manchester City) and Qatar (who own Paris Saint-Germain) have begun exploring the purchase of the franchise rights.

The league's push for acceptance of the plan isn't only with politicians but also with the community. Under a campaign dubbed "MLS To Queens", the league is pressing hard to win over local residents who might be less enthusiastic about the plans. The work is all culminating into the first public unveiling of the plans at Queens Theatre tomorrow night. The meeting starts at 7 p.m. and is open to the public.

As the project rolls along, New York Red Bulls fans are already starting to feel the sting of excitement in the project and not for their team of choice. If it's not newspaper editorials stating "A professional soccer team is one of the things New York has been missing", then it's the league's site helpfully showing a number of MLS stadiums and labeling Red Bull Arena as being in "New Jersey".


----------



## MS20

The types of investors we are talking about would spend $100m on a transfer fee. The salary cap in MLS must be derisory to people of these ilk. So sound economics of MLS probably have zero to do with it. 

I liken the situation to Qatar Investment and Paris St Germain. Its about soft power projection in the form of owning successful teams they can create into global brands, but also about developing their media portfolios. Al Jazeera has recently bought up various football rights in the US; this could be a move to strengthen that position in a media market that can become one of the most valuable in the world.

If QSI buy a NY team, they could be a major catalyst for MLS as a whole. For one, they could inflate TV rights , leading to increase in revenue across the board, allowing for a bigger cap. Secondly, they could pay wages to compete with the very best, which in turn raises the the prospects of big players coming in, resulting in a knock on effect for the game as a whole. 

Lets not kid ourselves, LA Galaxy or NY2 bringing in Real Madrid $600m revenues are some way off, but these kind of investors can propel the league to new heights in a much shorter amount of time than would otherwise be required.


----------



## joezierer

matthemod said:


> Makes you wonder what's more likely, an MLS team in the south or a widespread acceptance of Evolution.


Both of those things have already happened.


----------



## GunnerJacket

matthemod said:


> Makes you wonder what's more likely, an MLS team in the south or a widespread acceptance of Evolution.


One would think they go hand in hand, no?


----------



## GunnerJacket

carnifex2005 said:


> The league remains tight-lipped about potential ownership groups who would be willing to pay the $100 million franchise fee, but those who follow European soccer will not be surprised to learn that the Middle East is apparently interested. Telegraph Sport reported late in November that both Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan (who owns Manchester City) and Qatar (who own Paris Saint-Germain) have begun exploring the purchase of the franchise rights.


While I'm enthused about wealthy owners I'd much prefer a local. It's not xenophobia, but rather a desire to see direct connections between owners and the team's community. US Sports have been inundated enough with corporatizing of their teams, and this would be wonderful to see a recreation of the Seattle model in NYC. 

But of course, the potential profit margin means no one would turn this down for a real club model. 

Just please, please, not another "Red Bull" or knock of of some other foreign club.


----------



## Topher51

All of this South bashing is funny to me... mainly because I grew up in the deep south and can verify that it's mostly accurate. P

Anyway, up in my new town, the Pittsburgh Riverhounds are putting the finishing touches on their new stadium. While Pittsburgh isn't in consideration for an MLS team, this looks to be a great little stadium and nice place to take the fam. There are a lot of restaurants and bars within walking distance of the stadium, so this should be a pretty vibrant area for games. 

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2012/11/29/riverhounds-hope-new-stadium-makes-pittsburgh-a-soccer-town/?src=fb


----------



## TampaMike

Talking about Florida teams, a proposal was announced last week of a $440 million project that included a 29,000 permanent stadium for a MLS team, a temporary stadium, training facility and academy, and a sports medicine center for Tampa. An unveiling of sorts have been set for December 11 to local politicians and business people.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2012/11/28/report-tampa-soccer-specific-stadium-plans-works
http://www.examiner.com/article/tampa-bay-to-build-stadium-hopes-to-join-mls
http://www2.tbo.com/news/sports/201...ccer-may-return-to-tampa-with-400m-ar-578282/

Not saying that Orlando doesn't deserve it, but I agree with some that two teams so close together is too much. If Tampa does get it first, the MLS should give the Tampa team a couple years in the permanent stadium (2016 is completion date) before allowing for any Orlando proposal to go through.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Topher51 said:


> While Pittsburgh isn't in consideration for an MLS team, this looks to be a great little stadium and nice place to take the fam. There are a lot of restaurants and bars within walking distance of the stadium, so this should be a pretty vibrant area for games.


If Pittsburgh drew anything close to 18k I think they'd be perfect for an MLS franchise by having plenty of regional rivalries. Columbus, Philly, DC, Toronto. And it looks like the location for this venue would be masterful if it could accomodate that size crowd. 

Then again, I think there's something to be said about using the same northeastern regionality to develop a solid second tier, as well. Rochester, Harrisburgh, Richmond, Syracuse...



TampaMike said:


> Not saying that Orlando doesn't deserve it, but I agree with some that two teams so close together is too much. If Tampa does get it first, the MLS should give the Tampa team a couple years in the permanent stadium (2016 is completion date) before allowing for any Orlando proposal to go through.


I think if MLS is going to revisit FL then it might be best as a pairing, and while I'm still dubious about Orlando in MLS I think they might work as a better immediate rival with Tampa than Miami.


----------



## The Game Is Up

*Strikers looking to secure long-term soccer specific stadium*

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-strikers-soccer-specific-stadium-20121204,0,6161609.story


----------



## Topher51

TampaMike said:


> Not saying that Orlando doesn't deserve it, but I agree with some that two teams so close together is too much. If Tampa does get it first, the MLS should give the Tampa team a couple years in the permanent stadium (2016 is completion date) before allowing for any Orlando proposal to go through.


I disagree. This isn't like football where they draw fans from a large area for one game on the weekend. People won't drive down to Tampa on a weeknight for a soccer game. 

Having rivals that close would probably be better than having just a team in one of the cities. Rivalries are what turn casual fans into die hard fans. 

If both cities can support a team, I say go for it.


----------



## Fabio1976

http://thisiscosmoscountry.com/?p=3794
This can be the ideal solution to have the NYCFC in MLS in this temporary stadium for 2014 and 2015 seasons !!


----------



## carnifex2005

Fabio1976 said:


> http://thisiscosmoscountry.com/?p=3794
> This can be the ideal solution to have the NYCFC in MLS in this temporary stadium for 2014 and 2015 seasons !!


MLS said no and I don't blame them. The Wilpons (owner of the Mets) are now starting to put their political muscle into trying to kill MLS in Queens because they don't want the competition.


----------



## JJG

dinamo_zagreb said:


> Of course not, I just said what's my prefered look/appearance of a (bigger) football stadium.
> 
> *I find Pizza Hut Stadium and that weird stage behind one goal disguisting*, while BBVA Compass stadium is a masterpiece.


Well it's just FC Dallas Stadium now. And the idea was to make it a multi-purpose stadium. Sure it's labeled "Soccer Specific", but they wanted a venue to hold concerts as well, so that's why the stage is there.

One thing I noticed when dealing with this sport (and don't take this personal), it seems as if non-Americans (ESPECIALLY Europeans) seem to _hate_ things that Americans don't really seem to care about...


----------



## carnifex2005

JJG said:


> Well it's just FC Dallas Stadium now. And the idea was to make it a multi-purpose stadium. Sure it's labeled "Soccer Specific", but they wanted a venue to hold concerts as well, so that's why the stage is there.
> 
> One thing I noticed when dealing with this sport (and don't take this personal), it seems as if non-Americans (ESPECIALLY Europeans) seem to _hate_ things that Americans don't really seem to care about...


The thing is that both LiveStrong and BBVA have stages as well, they just cared enough to actually hide them. The early SSS in MLS were pretty crappy about that.


----------



## JJG

carnifex2005 said:


> The thing is that both LiveStrong and BBVA have stages as well, they just cared enough to actually hide them. *The early SSS in MLS were pretty crappy about that.*


That's true.


----------



## Darloeye

Think no-one knew how long the MLS would last and would not spend money on something that might not workout in the long run. Which is why the newer teams are getting great stadiums now-a-days.


----------



## JJG

Darloeye said:


> Think no-one knew how long the MLS would last and would not spend money on something that might not workout in the long run. Which is why the newer teams are getting great stadiums now-a-days.


That TOO.


----------



## chotu32

Scoots71 said:


> Look at the crowd of the 2011 Gold Cup final, and you'll see why. 93,000 spectators, about 55-60,000 of them were Mexican supporters. In Columbus, the foreign support is kept out because there is no supply to give them. That's why friendlies are played at bigger stadiums, because they are about making money to a certain extent rather than the importance of qualifying for the World Cup.


More like 80,000 mexican supporters. Football still doesn't interest the public in this country. Hardly anybody is watching mls on tv, its only because of half decent crowds at the stadium that the league is even financially viable.


----------



## matthemod

chotu32 said:


> More like 80,000 mexican supporters. Football still doesn't interest the public in this country. Hardly anybody is watching mls on tv, its only because of half decent crowds at the stadium that the league is even financially viable.


The problem is not that the sport doesn't interest the public in the U.S., the number of Soccer aficionados is growing, it's just they prefer to get their fix from the EPL, La Liga, even the Mexican Leagues as opposed to the home grown MLS.


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

JJG said:


> One thing I noticed when dealing with this sport (and don't take this personal), it seems as if non-Americans (ESPECIALLY Europeans) seem to _hate_ things that Americans don't really seem to care about...


That's true. :lol:


----------



## joezierer

Americans don't go to games as much because America hasn't been good in 60 years. If the US team and the MLS teams start winning overseas, then people will show up.

Same reason europeans don't go to basketball or baseball games.


----------



## KingmanIII

joezierer said:


> Americans don't go to games as much because America hasn't been good in 60 years. If the US team and the MLS teams start winning overseas, then people will show up.
> 
> Same reason europeans don't go to *basketball* or baseball games.


Ummm...


----------



## El Mariachi

joezierer said:


> Americans don't go to games as much because America hasn't been good in 60 years. If the US team and the MLS teams start winning overseas, then people will show up.
> 
> Same reason europeans don't go to basketball or baseball games.


I wouldn't agree with that. The US Men's team has been decent in the last decade. Had a good shot at a WC semifinals appearance in 02'. 09' Confed Cup runner up and an exciting group win in 2010. We also just beat Italy in Italy and Mexico at Azteca.


----------



## slipperydog

matthemod said:


> The problem is not that the sport doesn't interest the public in the U.S., the number of Soccer aficionados is growing, it's just they prefer to get their fix from the EPL, La Liga, even the Mexican Leagues as opposed to the home grown MLS.


In that way, they are similar to the fans in Australia, China, Malaysia, Singapore, Africa, etc. Except MLS is far and away more viable than their respective domestic leagues.


----------



## matthemod

I was able to study for a year in the United States (Indiana to be precise) as part of my degree course, during which I met many young American Students who were absolutely crazy for the sport. They were mostly all Euro-philes however, with most supporting Man Utd, Chelsea, Barcelona, Real Madrid, willing to get up at the crack of dawn on Saturdays to watch their teams on TV. So there's definitely a market for the fan of American Soccer, the problem is however, of the 30 or so hardcore fans I met out there, only one actually had an MLS affiliation and had been to a couple games. Out of interest, the team was the Columbus Crew.


----------



## joezierer

KingmanIII said:


> Ummm...


Compared to the NBA or NCAA?

edit: To Mariachi, the US team is having better attendence too, but the MLS squads aren't as good as the National Team is. When the best player in the league is a guy who couldn't make the national team in his home country, that speaks volumes for the talent level that MLS has.

edit2: before someone jumps me, according to ESPN Beckham was the best player in MLS. You could argue different folks, I guess.


----------



## carnifex2005

joezierer said:


> Compared to the NBA or NCAA?
> 
> edit: To Mariachi, the US team is having better attendence too, but the MLS squads aren't as good as the National Team is. When the best player in the league is a guy who couldn't make the national team in his home country, that speaks volumes for the talent level that MLS has.
> 
> edit2: before someone jumps me, according to ESPN Beckham was the best player in MLS. You could argue different folks, I guess.


You'd be a fool if you believe what ESPN tells you about soccer. They are so poor about that sport. Beckham wasn't even the best player on his team (that would be Robbie Keane followed by Landon Donovan) let alone the league.


----------



## Otto Racecar

carnifex2005 said:


> You'd be a fool if you believe what ESPN tells you about soccer. They are so poor about that sport. Beckham wasn't even the best player on his team (that would be Robbie Keane followed by Landon Donovan) let alone the league.


You could make an argument that omar gonzalez, juninho, and mike magee were all better then beckham last year as well for the galaxy. ESPN is absolutely horrible in covering MLS. Their coverage revolves around EPL and EPL only which hurts MLS and in my opinion the growth of soccer in the US.


----------



## Topher51

matthemod said:


> I was able to study for a year in the United States (Indiana to be precise) as part of my degree course, during which I met many young American Students who were absolutely crazy for the sport. They were mostly all Euro-philes however, with most supporting Man Utd, Chelsea, Barcelona, Real Madrid, willing to get up at the crack of dawn on Saturdays to watch their teams on TV. So there's definitely a market for the fan of American Soccer, the problem is however, of the 30 or so hardcore fans I met out there, only one actually had an MLS affiliation and had been to a couple games. Out of interest, the team was the Columbus Crew.


I lived in DC for 10 years and knew many soccer fans. Most of them (myself included) prefered watching European football over the MLS, even though we had a local team, because it is just a better product. While going to DC United matches is fun, it's not quite as exciting as watching the world's best players going against each other in stadiums where the fans are going absolutely crazy.


----------



## Cjones2451

Topher51 said:


> I lived in DC for 10 years and knew many soccer fans. Most of them (myself included) prefered watching European football over the MLS, even though we had a local team, because it is just a better product. While going to DC United matches is fun, it's not quite as exciting as watching the world's best players going against each other in stadiums where the fans are going absolutely crazy.


Why do people always assume it has to be one or the other. Can't they be soccer fans? Watch their EPL, La Liga, etc games on Saturday morning and then head to thier local MLS park to cheer their local team?
Yes I know MLS is not the best in the world, but it is entertaining and it is not going to get better or grow without fan support!!!


----------



## krudmonk

SJAnfield said:


> San Jose's 1906 Ultras seem to believe the point of supporting a club is threatening and beating the s**t out of any one wearing the other teams colors. I've been beyond embarrassed by their behavior on numerous occasions. They've given our fans an undeserved, notorious reputation as the biggest a** holes in the MLS. I've traveled to several away matches across the west, and have had to apologize and explain not all of us want to fight and make everyone around feel uncomfortable, and simply love the game and our team.
> 
> I think most of them have simply seen Green Street Hooligans one too many times. And I CANNOT STAND that every single one of their chants is about the LA Galaxy. Houston, New England, or even a Mexican or European club could be on the field, and all you hear is "we hate LA, f**k LA". I know the rivalry was, and still kind of remains, fierce, but damn. Thy give LA way too much credit, and annoy the crap out of everyone who isn't in section 109.
> 
> Sorry for this rant. I love the Earthquakes more than anyone could imagine, and the supporter section is ruining game day. I've brought many friends (a lot of them huge soccer fans) to try and convert them to Quakes fans, and the Ultras have annoyed them to the point of not returning. It's a struggle to get my wife to the games thanks to them too. I brought my best friend and his daughter (6 at the time) to a game, and a drunk ultra started shouting at her and calling her names, all because she was wearing an orange shirt, and we happened to be playing Houston. (I was pretty sure my friend was going to jail that night. That ultra was going to die) Needless to say, he never returned, and I'm sure that scared her a bit.
> 
> Can't wait for that beautiful stadium to be built. But not looking forward to years of ultra encounters, and explaining to my son they are not soccer fans, just wannabe game members.


Agreed. In fact, my buddies and I are moving out of 109 because of them. Fascist drunks is what they are.


----------



## SJAnfield

I certainly agree the 1906 Ultras don't reflect ultra groups world wide, but they do seem to mimic the more radical and violent ones out there. For some reason, they idolize the hooligan groups of the 70s and 80s, not understanding those groups helped destroy the game and its image. They did not enhance it. I've had some conversations and know several of the members in that group, and their thinking is distorted and scary. 

I've been, and somewhat remain, in close contact with President Kaval and several members of the front office. I like Kaval, but he's so busy with the stadium and operations, that he's spent little time dealing with the issue. He's assured me, and I believe him, that he wants to find a way to rid the stadium of unsavory behavior and groups that use intimidation tactics in the stands. He's recounted a number if instances where the club has lost season ticket holders or fans who said they were not coming back thanks to the ultras' behavior. The front office seems to have run out of ideas on how to handle or get the group in line. I know the MLS stepped in last season, and told the Quakes to handle the problem, or face penalties.

The FO tried to throw some support behind the other supporter groups, but the ultras basically declared war on any group that wasn't theirs, and slowly fought with their own fans and eventually ran them off. The ultras threatened to fight, called the other supporter group names and refused to work with the other groups or FO. The other groups basically ran up the white flag and all but disbanded. The Other main group (the Casbah) tried its hardest, but it took a while after the return to reorganize, and by the time it had its self together, the ultras decided they didn't want to share, and felt they needed to crush the group. The sad part is the Casbah was family friendly, and has existed since the club's MLS inception in '96. I was involved in the Casbah before the team left for Houston, and after, and sadly had to walk away, as the ultras made life miserable in 109, and the "fight" and the ultras' behavior were making the experience an unpleasant one. Unfortunately, once I moved away, the experience didn't exactly improve a great deal.


----------



## will101

SJAnfield said:


> I've been, and somewhat remain, in close contact with President Kaval and several members of the front office. I like Kaval, but he's so busy with the stadium and operations, that he's spent little time dealing with the issue. He's assured me, and I believe him, that he wants to find a way to rid the stadium of unsavory behavior and groups that use intimidation tactics in the stands. He's recounted a number if instances where the club has lost season ticket holders or fans who said they were not coming back thanks to the ultras' behavior. The front office seems to have run out of ideas on how to handle or get the group in line. I know the MLS stepped in last season, and told the Quakes to handle the problem, or face penalties.


I hate to say this, but it sounds like Kaval is in literally over his head on this. He sounds like the European clubs, when they did nothing about the hooligans, and the respective governments had to step in. The Quakes sound like they are unwilling and unable to take the necessary steps.

When you have people threatening children, the line has been crossed. You bring in somebody from Millwall or Newcastle, and do what he says. You set up the cameras. You have the security control room. You have the *tough* plain clothes police mingling. You have the riot police ready to do battle. You have the full pat-down and sobriety checks at the gate. These people get pulled out of line, arrested, have their pictures and prints taken and entered into the database, and they lose the ability to attend games.

The Quakes have to take the steps that Europe did, or they face the prospect of the bloodshed that Europe went through. And if people die, then I would have no trouble passing down a death sentence at Kaval's trial.


----------



## SJAnfield

will101 said:


> I hate to say this, but it sounds like Kaval is in literally over his head on this. He sounds like the European clubs, when they did nothing about the hooligans, and the respective governments had to step in. The Quakes sound like they are unwilling and unable to take the necessary steps.
> 
> When you have people threatening children, the line has been crossed. You bring in somebody from Millwall or Newcastle, and do what he says. You set up the cameras. You have the security control room. You have the tough plain clothes police mingling. You have the riot police ready to do battle. You have the full pat-down and sobriety checks at the gate. These people get pulled out of line, arrested, have their pictures and prints taken and entered into the database, and they lose the ability to attend games.
> 
> The Quakes have to take the steps that Europe did, or they face the prospect of the bloodshed that Europe went through. And if people die, then I would have no trouble passing down a death sentence at Kaval's trial.


Can't say I disagree too much with this. If the stadium has a hostile presence it can't rid itself of, these measures become simple necessity. 

I have a feeling once the stadium Is built, and these problems still persist, to any degree, the higher ups will force an end to it. At Buck Shaw there is little to no luxury/v.i.p. seating, thus few high-dollar seating options. The new stadium's entire lower bowl will be high-priced luxury suite style seating, which is essentially being touted as the main money-making aspect of the stadium. The new big $$$ crowd won't put up with their shenanigans, and will simply threaten to pull their money if it continues. At that point, ownership will demand an end at any cost. 

A friend of mine also told me the MLS is threatening


----------



## SJAnfield

...sorry, sent the last bit before I was finished. Couldn't figure out how to edit the post with the iPhone

Anyway, a friend of mine told me the MLS is threatening to not allow the Quakes to host the MLS Cup (top seed hosts) or any other tournament games if problems persist. This is in addition to monetary fines and risking future All-Star Game hosting bids (Quakes want the game). Not sure how true it is, but he's in regular contact with multiple club and league officials. I can see the Quakes also having to play empty stadium games too if the league is serious.


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^Not to say that there aren't a few bad apples spoiling the bunch, but can't say I've ever heard of a US supporters group getting anywhere near that rowdy.

They were threatening to not let them play the championship game at Buck Shaw because it was tiny and lacked any of the amenities you might expect a stadium to need for hosting such a marquee event for the league (little things like... bathrooms).

Again, not to say I know anything about the SJ supporters, but thats not at all the reason I understood for why they might not get to host the championship. 

I don't think any team has hooligans to compete with the likes of Millwall and West Ham.


----------



## vanbasten88

Any stadium P0rn from San Jose yet?


----------



## SJAnfield

BoulderGrad said:


> ^^Not to say that there aren't a few bad apples spoiling the bunch, but can't say I've ever heard of a US supporters group getting anywhere near that rowdy.
> 
> They were threatening to not let them play the championship game at Buck Shaw because it was tiny and lacked any of the amenities you might expect a stadium to need for hosting such a marquee event for the league (little things like... bathrooms).
> 
> Again, not to say I know anything about the SJ supporters, but thats not at all the reason I understood for why they might not get to host the championship.
> 
> I don't think any team has hooligans to compete with the likes of Millwall and West Ham.


It's bad. Not Millwall status, but they seem to want to turn Buck Shaw into The Den.

From my conversations with Kaval and the FO, the league was going to let Buck Shaw host, but the FO was exploring moving the game to Stanford or another venue. But we choked, and never got to that point.


----------



## No Change No Future

GunnerJacket said:


> The problem with the US is the growing dichotomy of markets, specifically the Hispanic populace and everyone else. There are indeed enough Central American immigrants in the US to make Mexico's Liga Primera a solid TV commodity, even moreso than the less-accessible broadcasts of matches from popular European leagues. But what recent studies have suggested is that the cross pollination isn't there across these factions. Hispanic immigrants aren't as interested in European leagues (enough to watch regularly, anyway) while most other US residents heavily favor the EPL broadcasts (or La Liga, Serie A...). As a result, and often by their choice, the Hispanics in the US are essentially a different market than the US all together.


You got it all wrong. First of all central-americans don't care about the mexican league, neither do southamericans, only mexicans care about it but they're a massive market. Central Americans actually do favor euro-leagues, mainly La liga, often times over their own native leagues. It's been a staple of latin americans to watch la liga, champions league, serie A, etc.. since decades ago, especially if your local league is shitty. Latin americans also don't care about any other latin leagues except their own. So when you see the Peru league on satellite TV, etc..you can be sure only peruvians immigrants are gonna watch it, and even then, only some of them. 

Most latinamericans in the US will probably keep up with La Liga, Champions League, etc.. before they'll even care about anything like Copa Libertadores or Concacaf Champions League, only the most die-hard soccer fans care about following these and most times only if their team is in the competition.


----------



## vanbasten88

No Change No Future said:


> You got it all wrong. First of all central-americans don't care about the mexican league, neither do southamericans, only mexicans care about it but they're a massive market. Central Americans actually do favor euro-leagues, mainly La liga, often times over their own native leagues. It's been a staple of latin americans to watch la liga, champions league, serie A, etc.. since decades ago, especially if your local league is shitty. Latin americans also don't care about any other latin leagues except their own. So when you see the Peru league on satellite TV, etc..you can be sure only peruvians immigrants are gonna watch it, and even then, only some of them.
> 
> Most latinamericans in the US will probably keep up with La Liga, Champions League, etc.. before they'll even care about anything like Copa Libertadores or Concacaf Champions League, only the most die-hard soccer fans care about following these and most times only if their team is in the competition.


Soccer = think global, act local. I have noticed that EPL means less and less to me as the A-League continues to improve its standard. I barely even watch the 1hr EPL highlights show anymore, but I wouldn't miss an Adelaide United game unless I was stuck in a hospital or something hno:


----------



## will101

BoulderGrad said:


> I don't think any team has hooligans to compete with the likes of Millwall and West Ham.


You did catch the part about the guy abusing the six year old girl, didn't you? I think that goes above and beyond the qualifier for hooligan behavior.


----------



## BoulderGrad

will101 said:


> You did catch the part about the guy abusing the six year old girl, didn't you? I think that goes above and beyond the qualifier for hooligan behavior.


One ass-hole does not a group of hooligans make...

Are you also seeing regular fights between large groups of organized supporters?

Are you seeing REGULAR cases of opposing fans being beaten/robbed/stabbed simply for wearing the wrong jersey? 

One drunk guy being a total dick doesn't mean they're suddenly in the same breath as the firms in England...


----------



## GunnerJacket

No Change No Future said:


> You got it all wrong. First of all central-americans don't care about the mexican league, neither do southamericans, only mexicans care about it but they're a massive market. Central Americans actually do favor euro-leagues, mainly La liga, often times over their own native leagues...


Well here's what I know. I've grown up playing/reffing/coaching within the metro Atl soccer scene for the past 25+ years. We've large populations here from Mexico but also from Honduras, Guatemala and other Latin American populations. By far the most popular clubs among this crowd hail from Mexico, Brazil, Argentina and Colombia. There's a handful of Hispanic soccer shops that give evidence to this, and many local teams donning jerseys based on clubs from throughout Latin America. Sure, Barca and Madrid and several European powers garner popularity, but not so much those leagues. Not among this crowd, anyway. And modern media has made it easier for these folks to follow their local teams without needing FSC.

They understand the money and popularity of the European leagues, and that perhaps their own domestic league is "s****y," but around here they're not given into some blind allegiance to Europe, either.


----------



## ObiUbamba

Surely the Tampa Bay Rowdies deserve a spot in the MLS, or at least a decent stadium?!?


----------



## SJAnfield

BoulderGrad said:


> One ass-hole does not a group of hooligans make...
> 
> Are you also seeing regular fights between large groups of organized supporters? YES
> 
> Are you seeing REGULAR cases of opposing fans being beaten/robbed/stabbed simply for wearing the wrong jersey? YES
> 
> One drunk guy being a total dick doesn't mean they're suddenly in the same breath as the firms in England...


These guys are by no means on the level of the most infamous firms of the world, but they want to be, and the younger guys they've had join are trying to one up the previous a-holes, and are getting more brazen and extreme in an attempt to impress the others. The group embraces and advertises their violent nature all the time, and take pride in the numerous fights and beatings they were responsible for.

They are the unfortunate burden that San Jose bears. Most of the supporters are awesome, peaceful, hospitable, and in no way reflect the 1906 Ultra culture. But, the loudest and most violent idiots tend to catch all the attention, and create an unfair perception of the club, city and its fans. The idiot I described in my previous thread was one of many morons in the ultras who think the point of soccer clubs is to declare war on the other clubs, I've seen countless examples that mirrored my own. The product on the field holds little to no interest to most of them, as their main reason for being there is getting blasted and looking for a fight. 

I don't want to hijack this thread anymore than needed. All I want people to know is there are groups in the US who have aspired and adopted the hooligan culture, and my experience with San Jose's has left an extremely sour taste. I'm not exaggerating or making this stuff up, I really want everyone to know this behavior exists, and is pretty bad. The culture needs to be eradicated and left in the past. If this league and sport is serious about breaking into the big 4 and competing with the likes of the NBA or MLB, groups like the 1906 Ultras need to be banned and actively phased out so they can't spoil the experience and the casual fan won't be ran off.


----------



## chotu32

bd popeye said:


> I'm no association football fan. But I do like all kinds of stadiums.
> 
> 
> 
> In the largest country on this planet..China. Basketball is a very big sport. NBA starts when touring China in the off season are treated as super star celebrities.
> 
> http://factsanddetails.com/china.php?itemid=277
> 
> Baseball is a mainstream sport in Japan, Taiwan and South Korea. Also through the Caribbean and Venezuela. A minor league sort of baseball is played in Italy and Australia.
> 
> Nope, American sports are not that popular outside of the US.. and guess what? Americans do not care.
> 
> We that follow this thread have seen these types of post previously.
> 
> chotu32, you are very correct on some points..read this about the MLS salaries.
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/zachsla...steady-improvement-but-still-not-world-class/


If you look at it, other than the 3rd world countries, almost all leagues pay better than MLS. Countries like Denmark, Sweden etc are tiny population wise, yet they pay many times more in salary than MLS.

For example, Denmark has a tiny population, perhaps the same as a small state like Alabama, yet the average wage must be around 5 times the mls average wage. The reason MLS is so far behind quality wise is merely due to this reason.


----------



## eMKay

chotu32 said:


> If you look at it, other than the 3rd world countries, almost all leagues pay better than MLS. Countries like Denmark, Sweden etc are tiny population wise, yet they pay many times more in salary than MLS.
> 
> For example, Denmark has a tiny population, perhaps the same as a small state like Alabama, yet the average wage must be around 5 times the mls average wage. The reason MLS is so far behind quality wise is merely due to this reason.


Yes this is very true, except for the quality part, that's not true at all. The quality is pretty good. However geting the big salaries is not as easy as it sounds. First you have to get bigger TV contracts, bigger merchandise sales, bigger advertizing sales. In order to do that, you have to get more popular. The level of play in the MLS is very good as it is now, to gain popularity they need to just do what they are currently doing, bring in the big stars that may be a little over the hill in the bigger leagues, this gains exposure at home and abroad. What they are doing with Beckham, Keane, Henry is paying off. It's not happening overnight but the growth of the MLS in the last 5 years has been pretty good if you ask me. The salaries will come to the rest of the players eventually.


----------



## slipperydog

Lampard is reportedly joining the Galaxy at the end of the season.


----------



## GunnerJacket

chotu32 said:


> If you look at it, other than the 3rd world countries, almost all leagues pay better than MLS. Countries like Denmark, Sweden etc are tiny population wise, yet they pay many times more in salary than MLS.


I don't think the disparity is quite so large, and obviously high priced stars can make quite the salary in MLS. Plus MLS is also drawing some fair talent from Latin American countries on par with wage scales in smaller European leagues. Some factors in that:

- In most European nations the wages coincide with a high tax scale and high expectation of social services. 

- European nations get stipends from UEFA and their competitions. Basically a supplement to league revenues.

- Even modest European clubs get decent sponsorship money because of the sport's popularity and the chance for broader exposure across UEFA competitions.

- Conversely, select celebrity players have the chance to make more money through their own commercial contracts in the US, both for the novelty of the young market and the idea of associating with the promise of the MLS brand. Let's face it, MLS has huge potential given the size and economy of the nation.



eMKay said:


> However geting the big salaries is not as easy as it sounds. First you have to get bigger TV contracts, bigger merchandise sales, bigger advertizing sales. In order to do that, you have to get more popular.


This is critical in the evolution of MLS (or any sport). Television is the great promoter and equilizer, allowing all members to gain exposure and potentially increase revenues in geomtric proportions. This is because the costs and resources needed to create the product are so minimal compared to those for fielding the team and running the venue. It's practically all bonus money.



slipperydog said:


> Lampard is reportedly joining the Galaxy at the end of the season.


A curious move. Lamps seemingly has more to play for compared to when Becks made his move, while not being of equal celebrity status, either. That being said, he should prove the better contributor to the side based on his positioning and perceived role. 

Alas, he's a Chelsea player from the RA days, therefore I can only wish him abject failure! :cheers:


----------



## slipperydog

GunnerJacket said:


> A curious move. Lamps seemingly has more to play for compared to when Becks made his move, while not being of equal celebrity status, either. That being said, he should prove the better contributor to the side based on his positioning and perceived role.


While LA has won two titles in a row, I think the Galaxy will be an even better team with Lampard. Beckham was important, but he wasn't that X-factor difference maker. With Donovan gradually being phased out and Lampard running the show in the middle of the field with Keane up top, the Galaxy should be darn near impossible to stop.


----------



## SVB28

I wish Super Frank was moving to another blue team, Sporting KC, but it will still be interesting to follow... might have to go to an LA-SKC game.


----------



## slipperydog

Atlanta Silverbacks new team mark


----------



## ObiUbamba

USL (Division 3) to essentially become feeder league to MLS

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/major-league-soccer-usl-pro-203500373--mls.html


----------



## JJG

slipperydog said:


> Atlanta Silverbacks new team mark












Ok, it's not bad, but they could have went with a gorilla....


----------



## carnifex2005

JJG said:


> Ok, it's not bad, but they could have went with a gorilla....


Especially since this was one of the finalists in the contest... 










Just reminds me that the majority of people have no taste. The new logo looks like it belongs in baseball, not soccer.


----------



## SJAnfield

slipperydog said:


> Atlanta Silverbacks new team mark


I love this


----------



## adeaide

*Seattle , CenturyLink Field (Qwest Field , Seahawks Stadium)*


----------



## slipperydog

The Home Depot Center will have a new name by the end of the year.


----------



## master_klon

*Construction update - San Antonio Scorpions - Toyota Field (8000)*










“We’re very close to the 80 percent completion mark, so we’re making excellent progress in preparation for the Scorpions’ first North American Soccer League (NASL) match April 13,” said Gordon Hartman, CEO of The Gordon Hartman Family Foundation and head of Soccer for a Cause. “Our focus now turns to the playing field and planting grass, which should be complete in 30 days, weather permitting. Then we can install the remaining seats on the north end of the stadium and enclose the entire field.”


----------



## MontrealYul

So what is happening in San Jose? Wasn't construction supposed to start in November?


----------



## bongo-anders

Are there any pictures from the game in Tucson between Denmark and Canada, I believe the stadium was called Kino Veterans Stadium.


The tv camera was positioned on the stand so the background was a busy road with busses and cars driving around. :lol:


----------



## JJG

bongo-anders said:


> Are there any pictures from the game in Tucson between Denmark and Canada, I believe the stadium was called Kino *Veterans Stadium*.
> 
> 
> The tv camera was positioned on the stand so the background was a busy road with busses and cars driving around. :lol:


Huh?


----------



## carnifex2005

bongo-anders said:


> Are there any pictures from the game in Tucson between Denmark and Canada, I believe the stadium was called Kino Veterans Stadium.
> 
> 
> The tv camera was positioned on the stand so the background was a busy road with busses and cars driving around. :lol:


They played in a minor league baseball stadium that's why. It was pretty much a closed doors scrimmage anyways.


----------



## bongo-anders

But there were some crowd present at the stadium, but they were probably invited.


----------



## bongo-anders

JJG said:


> Huh?



It was played in a baseball stadium so there were no stands by the other sideline but only the outfield or what you guys call it.

I would have liked to see what the stadium looked like but there were none or few camera angles showing the main stand.


----------



## JJG

bongo-anders said:


> It was played in a baseball stadium so there were no stands by the other sideline but only the outfield or what you guys call it.
> 
> I would have liked to see what the stadium looked like but there were none or few camera angles showing the main stand.


Are you talking about this place? 










Or is it something else?


----------



## bongo-anders

A little bit smaller, 8000 seats.

Its called Kino Veterans Memorial Stadium and its located in Pima County in Tucson, Arizona (thank you google) :-D


----------



## JJG

bongo-anders said:


> A little bit smaller, 8000 seats.
> 
> Its called Kino Veterans Memorial Stadium and its located in Pima County in Tucson, Arizona (thank you google) :-D


Ah, ok.


----------



## slipperydog

University of Louisville officials are working diligently to raise funds for groundbreaking on a new soccer stadium on Floyd Street. The University released a digital animation of what the stadium will look like once it is complete.


----------



## carnifex2005

MontrealYul said:


> So what is happening in San Jose? Wasn't construction supposed to start in November?


The San Jose president announced today that construction will start Feb. 26th.


----------



## will101

carnifex2005 said:


> The San Jose president announced today that construction will start Feb. 26th.


Oh, but of course. Right in the middle of our rainy season. That logic should be obvious to even the most casual observer. hno:


----------



## slipperydog

In 2014, *Virginia Cavalry FC *will begin play in the NASL at the to-be-constructed BallPark at One Loudoun in Ashburn, VA.


----------



## carnifex2005

I wonder if that stadium will be built specifically to fit a soccer field yet still feel intimate. From the look above it seems that there will be a proper set of seats behind the outfield goal. 

Edit = Here's the link about the stadium.

- Multimillion-dollar interactive videoboard
- 27 private Luxury Suites
- Party Suites for nightly rental
- Multiple picnic pavilions
- Kid-exclusive rides & games
- 5,500 general admission seats
- Outfield seating
- Wrap-around concourse
- Ultra-modern turf surface adaptable for multiple sports
- Stadium-wide WiFi
- Variety of food & beverage options


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

Disguisted with this one.

I really thought there will be no more stadiums like this. :bash:


----------



## Cubo99

^^
its reconstruction of baseball stadium for soccer ?? or brand new baseball stadium for soccer ?  :rofl:


----------



## GunnerJacket

dinamo_zagreb said:


> Disguisted with this one.
> 
> I really thought there will be no more stadiums like this. :bash:





Cubo99 said:


> ^^
> its reconstruction of baseball stadium for soccer ?? or brand new baseball stadium for soccer ?  :rofl:


Before the hate gets carried away here...

This is a brand new stadium designed for baseball. It just happens that the owners of this new soccer team have no other options for a stadium right now but are obviously aggressive in their hopes to capitalize on the Washington DC market. Ideally they will eventually move into a soccer-specific stadium but until that's available this wil have to do. This is technically, after all, third tier soccer in a very expensive part of the country. Thus, beggers can't be choosers.

No one here is going to be thrilled with the option, but if the local demand is there they'll abide by this long enough until a better option comes along.


----------



## Otto Racecar

GunnerJacket said:


> Before the hate gets carried away here...
> 
> This is a brand new stadium designed for baseball. It just happens that the owners of this new soccer team have no other options for a stadium right now but are obviously aggressive in their hopes to capitalize on the Washington DC market. Ideally they will eventually move into a soccer-specific stadium but until that's available this wil have to do. This is technically, after all, third tier soccer in a very expensive part of the country. Thus, beggers can't be choosers.
> 
> No one here is going to be thrilled with the option, but if the local demand is there they'll abide by this long enough until a better option comes along.


I agree with what you're saying but just to clarify, NASL is the second division of the US soccer structure. USLpro would be the 3rd.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Otto Racecar said:


> I agree with what you're saying but just to clarify, NASL is the second division of the US soccer structure. USLpro would be the 3rd.


I knew D-2 status was granted by USSF on a temporary and conditional basis the past two years. Has that been renewed or made permanent? I thought some of the teams were struggling to retain the development funding commitments required for that designation?

Either way, NASL is not MLS and it's certainly a lower rung financially compared to the D-2 level in most prominent European or Latino nations, so I didn't want any detractors to this stadium to see the stadium proposal as the norm for the US.


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

GunnerJacket said:


> Before the hate gets carried away here...
> 
> This is a brand new stadium designed for baseball. It just happens that the owners of this new soccer team have no other options for a stadium right now but are obviously aggressive in their hopes to capitalize on the Washington DC market. Ideally they will eventually move into a soccer-specific stadium but until that's available this wil have to do. This is technically, after all, third tier soccer in a very expensive part of the country. Thus, beggers can't be choosers.
> 
> No one here is going to be thrilled with the option, but if the local demand is there they'll abide by this long enough until a better option comes along.


Oh, I see... when I saw that new stadium will be built for NASL club, I thought this will be final and "hybrid" solution.


----------



## ohho

http://the11.ca/2013/02/06/fc-edmonton-updates-city-fans-on-soccer-stadium-progress/


----------



## Otto Racecar

GunnerJacket said:


> I knew D-2 status was granted by USSF on a temporary and conditional basis the past two years. Has that been renewed or made permanent? I thought some of the teams were struggling to retain the development funding commitments required for that designation?
> 
> Either way, NASL is not MLS and it's certainly a lower rung financially compared to the D-2 level in most prominent European or Latino nations, so I didn't want any detractors to this stadium to see the stadium proposal as the norm for the US.


Its my understanding that NASL now has full sanctioning from USSF as the second division league in the US and is sanctioned as canada's second division for that matter as well. I have heard the same information in regards to development funding commitments but am not sure exactly what the status of that issue is. The addition of the new york cosmos,indianapolis,viriginia,and ottawa to the league lead me to believe that these franchises seem to think the league is on stable ground. Also the recent announcement of partnerships between mls and USL pro make me think that mls feels that usl pro will remain the third tier in the structure far into the future. 

That being said, you are absolutely correct to point out that NASL is still in its infant stages. After the shakeups that have occured in recent years, there are certain teams in USLpro such as rochester, charleston, and pittsburgh that have stadiums that are as nice as current NASL stadiums. The new stadium in virigina is a good temporary home for a new expansion team until they can build a base and potentially build a stadium of their own.


----------



## carnifex2005

*Florida Gov. Scott backs Orlando soccer stadium plans*

Florida Gov. Rick Scott vowed to back efforts to finance an Orlando Major League Soccer stadium with state tax rebates during a meeting of the Tiger Bay Club Feb. 8.

“I am very supportive and will do everything I can do at the state level,” Scott said of the city of Orlando’s efforts to push for changes in state law to help finance the proposed soccer stadium.

Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer, who told me he talks with the governor weekly about the proposed Major League Soccer franchise and 15,000- to 20,000-seat stadium, said the governor sees the project as creating jobs and boosting tourism.

Major League Soccer plans to award two new franchises. New York City is assured of one, and the city wants the other to go to Orlando City Soccer Club, Dyer said.
A new stadium for Orlando City Soccer, priced at $90 million to $100 million, would be financed with contributions from the team, the city and “hopefully some money” from Orange County, Dyer said.
Orange County officials could not be reached for comment.

Orlando City Soccer President Phil Rawlins believes anything the state can do to help make the stadium a reality is vital to bringing Major League Soccer to Orlando. Major League Soccer officials have said a franchise in the Southeast is a priority and Orlando is a good candidate.

The club is considering locating the proposed stadium on International Drive.


----------



## 1772

I hope it's a closed roof stadium. The summers in Orlando can be brutal.


----------



## slipperydog

Since when is MLS interested in awarding TWO franchises? If true, that's a new development to be certain.


----------



## Lumbergo

does Orlando draw well? better than Miami/Ft Lauderdale or Tampa? also, wouldn't a renovated Citrus Bowl be a better idea than a new stadium?


----------



## SJAnfield

Lumbergo said:


> does Orlando draw well? better than Miami/Ft Lauderdale or Tampa? also, wouldn't a renovated Citrus Bowl be a better idea than a new stadium?


Citrus Bowl is too large. It would probably be another Revs/Gillette situation. A smaller park would probably suit the club better.

I'm interested in how they draw too. I think the MLS needs to give Florida and the south another go.


----------



## Fabio1976

http://therealdeal.com/blog/2013/02/08/flushing-meadows-soccer-stadium-gets-union-ok/


----------



## carnifex2005

Lumbergo said:


> does Orlando draw well? better than Miami/Ft Lauderdale or Tampa? also, wouldn't a renovated Citrus Bowl be a better idea than a new stadium?


Don Garber (MLS commissioner) said the Citrus bowl is a non-starter, renovated or not. They have to get a soccer specific stadium to have the possibility of getting a team.


----------



## joezierer

Couldn't you easily make the Citrus Bowl soccer specific?


----------



## carnifex2005

joezierer said:


> Couldn't you easily make the Citrus Bowl soccer specific?


Not really. You'd have to tear it down and rebuild to be a 20k stadium. The stadium still is used for a bowl game that Orlando wants to keep around so that isn't an option.


----------



## slipperydog

San Jose Earthquakes stadium to break ground Feb. 26 and open for the beginning of the 2014 season.


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

So that means it will be completed in less than 12 months. Huge.

What will be the costs?


----------



## Rev Stickleback

GunnerJacket said:


> Before the hate gets carried away here...
> 
> This is a brand new stadium designed for baseball. It just happens that the owners of this new soccer team have no other options for a stadium right now but are obviously aggressive in their hopes to capitalize on the Washington DC market. Ideally they will eventually move into a soccer-specific stadium but until that's available this wil have to do. This is technically, after all, third tier soccer in a very expensive part of the country. Thus, beggers can't be choosers.
> 
> No one here is going to be thrilled with the option, but if the local demand is there they'll abide by this long enough until a better option comes along.


It's happened before, even in England. Both Sheffield United and Northampton Town played at cricket grounds, effectively only having three-sided grounds when in football mode.



















Sheffield United eventually forced the cricket out, building a new stand over the outfield in 1974, while Northampton Town moved themselves, as safety restrictions made their ground the worst in the league.


----------



## carnifex2005

dinamo_zagreb said:


> So that means it will be completed in less than 12 months. Huge.
> 
> What will be the costs?


$60 million US.


----------



## KingmanIII

carnifex2005 said:


> Not really. You'd have to tear it down and rebuild to be a 20k stadium. The stadium still is used for a bowl game that Orlando wants to keep around so that isn't an option.


the Citrus Bowl is getting a renovation to keep their bowl games so it's a moot point

I guess they could use UCF's stadium for awhile


----------



## slipperydog

Puerto Rico Islanders are undergoing operational restructuring and will return to action in 2014. The 2013 NASL season will feature 8 clubs.


----------



## vanbasten88

slipperydog said:


> San Jose Earthquakes stadium to break ground Feb. 26 and open for the beginning of the 2014 season.


excellent[/Mr. Burns voice] stadium P0rn on the way soon :banana::banana:


----------



## 1772

Is there any equivalent to MLB:s Spring Training in the MLS? 
If so, where do teams conduct their Spring Training?


----------



## carnifex2005

1772 said:


> Is there any equivalent to MLB:s Spring Training in the MLS?
> If so, where do teams conduct their Spring Training?


Yes. In Orlando, Florida and in Tucson, Arizona. It's happening right now and MLS YouTube channel streams almost all of the games.


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

If you think on preseason, there are, as much as I know, friendly tournaments held in Orlando, Florida (Disney Pro Soccer Classic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Walt_Disney_World_Pro_Soccer_Classic) and in Tucson, Arizona (Desert Diamond Cup http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Desert_Diamond_Cup).

There are live streams of each game (don't like camera position, though):

Disney Pro Soccer Classic
http://www.mlssoccer.com/live/channel1

Desert Diamond Cup
http://www.mlssoccer.com/live/channel2


----------



## 1772

Ah, would you look at that, one in Florida and one in Arizona. It's almost like the MLB Spring Trainings Grapefruit and Cactus League.


----------



## will101

slipperydog said:


> San Jose Earthquakes stadium to break ground Feb. 26 and open for the beginning of the 2014 season.


So if the groundbreaking is on the 26th, then what was that thing with 6,000+ fans last fall? Will the Guinness people be peeved?


----------



## GOOT

Lumbergo said:


> does Orlando draw well? better than Miami/Ft Lauderdale or Tampa? also, wouldn't a renovated Citrus Bowl be a better idea than a new stadium?



Orlando led the USL in attendance at 6900 a game last year. They drew over 11,000 for The championship game in 2011.


----------



## Dan Striker

I am about to add all mls stadiums to my new website - does anyone know the most reliable source for mls stadium details? wikipedia?

Also would anyone be interested in writing stadium reviews of mls stadiums?


----------



## GunnerJacket

Try appealing to each teams fans courtesy of BigSoccer.com. Arguably the most direct and efficient approach unless you get enough takers here. I'd offer help but I've only been to two venues several years ago.


----------



## Dan Striker

thanks GunnerJacket I will give that a try


----------



## slipperydog

Update on DC United, Baltimore eliminated



> *D.C. United ‘very hopeful’ for new stadium*
> 
> D.C. United’s leadership is “very hopeful” of striking a deal to build a soccer stadium in Washington and end the MLS club’s decade-long search for a new home in the area, Jason Levien, the team’s managing partner, told the Insider.
> 
> In his first comments about the proposal in several months, Levien said: “The stars are aligning in a good way for us. We’re working closely with the right people and we feel better about it today than we did three months ago, no question.”


Read rest of article below:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...2/15/d-c-united-very-hopeful-for-new-stadium/


----------



## GunnerJacket

That would be HUGE for MLS, with one caveat - They need the potential to someday handle 40k. It may be many, many years before that happens, but United remains a strong brand in the MLS markets and the potential is there to excel in developing the fanbase. 

Take the location and create a wonderful urban venue comparable to JeldWen in Portland, complete with unique forms and a bona fide kop for the Barra Brava, and I suspect you'll have a wonderful atmosphere worthy of the new additions we've been raving about. Done right I'm sure they'd regularly fill 20k+ right off the bat.

_*Prays he hasn't jinxed the deal*_


----------



## tehlazerviking

Possible update to the San Jose render. Apparently this isn't officially from the architects/designers but might reflect the new design. It would be an upgrade IMHO.










EDIT: Sorry for the size.


----------



## will101

tehlazerviking said:


> Possible update to the San Jose render. Apparently this isn't officially from the architects/designers but might reflect the new design. It would be an upgrade IMHO.


Nice drawing. What was the source?

And I'm still concerned about the open end facing towards the major airport about half a mile away.


----------



## Willygto2

*San Antonio Scorpions.*


----------



## krudmonk

will101 said:


> Nice drawing. What was the source?
> 
> And I'm still concerned about the open end facing towards the major airport about half a mile away.


That image allegedly (per someone on BigSoccer) came from the firm which is handling the ancillary development across the street (a new side street, not Coleman) from the stadium.


----------



## hngcm

The brown rim should be a team color (blue?) but otherwise looks pretty good


----------



## krudmonk

Well I don't think that rendering is very accurate, considering the lower tier of seats is completely invisible there.


----------



## ielag

carnifex2005 said:


> Yes. In Orlando, Florida and in Tucson, Arizona. It's happening right now and MLS YouTube channel streams almost all of the games.


And speaking of Tucson, they'll have a new 2,000 seat stadium in 2014


----------



## master_klon

:lol: The stands behind the goals are pretty bad.


----------



## JJG

master_klon said:


> :lol: The stands behind the goals are pretty bad.


That's what you call "_building on the cheap_"...


----------



## slipperydog

ORLANDO SENTINEL - A wealthy Brazilian entrepreneur became a major investor in the Orlando City Soccer Club on Friday, bringing an influx of cash that makes it *much more likely that Orlando will land a Major League Soccer franchise — and that taxpayers will help foot the bill for a new soccer stadium.*

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...lando-soccer-stadium-20130217,0,3030812.story


----------



## ryebreadraz

Orlando's biggest problem has always been that Rawlins didn't have nearly enough money. If this report is true, it appears as if that has been solved.


----------



## GunnerJacket

So is Orlando hoping to usurp MLS' plans for #20, or are they aspiring that the league will find a blackjack win in going to 21? 

Count me among those who prefers an even number of teams and preferably for all teams to have a notable rival. If Orlando is this strong (though I'm still dubious) does it raise the value/odds for a Tampa or Miami revival?


----------



## carnifex2005

GunnerJacket said:


> So is Orlando hoping to usurp MLS' plans for #20, or are they aspiring that the league will find a blackjack win in going to 21?
> 
> Count me among those who prefers an even number of teams and preferably for all teams to have a notable rival. If Orlando is this strong (though I'm still dubious) does it raise the value/odds for a Tampa or Miami revival?


I'm thinking that Atlanta would be going in with Orlando if New York 2 comes about. If NY2 fails, then Orlando will come in alone.


----------



## slipperydog

Frankly, it could be any number of cities. Atlanta may be the biggest market without a team and may seem the most logical choice for expansion, but that doesn't mean that they would necessarily just be given an MLS franchise. As long as they have the right ownership, stadium, and business plan, you could see the 22nd team be from Baltimore, Detroit, Atlanta, Indianapolis, Minneapolis, San Antonio, Cincinnati, Tampa, Pittsburgh, Charlotte/Raleigh, etc.


----------



## hngcm

And hopefully Chivas USA moves to San Diego...


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

hngcm said:


> And hopefully Chivas USA moves to San Diego...


There are many stories that Chivas should move to SD, but was there anything official or, at least, something bigger and more significant than stories on forums? Is there anyone from San Diego that would like to invest in MLS team there?


----------



## SJAnfield

GunnerJacket said:


> So is Orlando hoping to usurp MLS' plans for #20, or are they aspiring that the league will find a blackjack win in going to 21?
> 
> Count me among those who prefers an even number of teams and preferably for all teams to have a notable rival. If Orlando is this strong (though I'm still dubious) does it raise the value/odds for a Tampa or Miami revival?


If often thought the MLS needs to ditch the 20 plan. I personally think the MLS can eventually be a sustainable, and extremely successful, 30-32 team league. I have been a long time proponent of the MLS adopting the baseball model, and start an affiliation system. We've seen the foundation of this model laid with the recent partnership of the USL Pro, an if the NASL and PDL can be integrated in, the system becomes reality. I know the MLS tried to buy the USL a few years ago, so they may be thinking along the same lines. 

More clubs equates to more exposure, and I do not believe promotion and relegation are realistic options for the MLS/American game. The owners investing in the league don't want to have the risk of dropping or playing small markets. Not while the league, and more importantly the sport, is growing. It's simply a foreign concept here, and owners and networks will probably not be accepting of such an arrangement.

If the Soccer pyramid adopts affiliation, I think it will stabilize clubs, and help develop a chain reaction in interest and viewership. The MLS has adopted the academy system, and having affiliates allows them to be able to better develop, and scout far more talent.


----------



## GunnerJacket

dinamo_zagreb said:


> There are many stories that Chivas should move to SD, but was there anything official or, at least, something bigger and more significant than stories on forums? Is there anyone from San Diego that would like to invest in MLS team there?


Nothing official. The idea has been often floated for several reasons:

- Chivas can't maximize revenue as a secondary tenant in their stadium and have hinted several times at wanting a place of their own;
- MLS fans in general want to see teams in more cities;
- San Diego would also fit the Chivas idea of reaching out to Latinos in the southern California market, allowing it to keep the rivalry with LA Galaxy
- As a rule US fans hate seeing pro teams share stadiums.

There have been similar suggestions to move them to Phoenix or San Antonio as well as simply to another venue in LA (most likely). Bottom line remains, though, that it's unlikely they'll be playing at the Home Depot Center (or whatever it will be called) for another 10 years.



SJAnfield said:


> If often thought the MLS needs to ditch the 20 plan. I personally think the MLS can eventually be a sustainable, and extremely successful, 30-32 team league.


Well it's pretty much accepted MLS will go beyond 20 eventually. What I was referring to is the notion that MLS prefers an even number of teams, and right now beyond the lip service given about Orlando there is no other candidate that appears a strong option for #22. Thus, if MLS gives #20 to NYC I assume they'd wait until there are even pairs of candidates before moving to expand again.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

hngcm said:


> And hopefully Chivas USA moves to San Diego...


not happening. the owners have said they are committed to LA long term and will probably build a new stadium. my guess is expo park next to the Colosseum


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

GunnerJacket said:


> Nothing official. The idea has been often floated for several reasons:
> 
> - Chivas can't maximize revenue as a secondary tenant in their stadium and have hinted several times at wanting a place of their own;
> - MLS fans in general want to see teams in more cities;
> - San Diego would also fit the Chivas idea of reaching out to Latinos in the southern California market, allowing it to keep the rivalry with LA Galaxy
> - As a rule US fans hate seeing pro teams share stadiums.
> 
> There have been similar suggestions to move them to Phoenix or San Antonio as well as simply to another venue in LA (most likely). Bottom line remains, though, that it's unlikely they'll be playing at the Home Depot Center (or whatever it will be called) for another 10 years.


Yeah, I was aware of this first point, that Chivas is, actually, a FAIL.

Thanks for clarification, I'd like to see them relocated.


----------



## Lumbergo

I could see them doing well in San Antonio. 

plus the fact that the Alamodome already exists and is basically a soccer specific stadium (and doesn't have a major Tenant...)


----------



## Calvin W

Lumbergo said:


> I could see them doing well in San Antonio.
> 
> plus the fact that the Alamodome already exists and is basically a soccer specific stadium (and doesn't have a major Tenant...)


Soccer specific?hno:


----------



## JJG

ObiUbamba said:


> yes, high school stadiums look cheap and tacky. That is miles away from what a football stadium looks like in Europe.


....ok. 

Well:

1. This is NOT in Europe, and 
2. This isn't for a MAJOR professional sports team. Why would they need it to be any bigger?


----------



## carnifex2005

FIRST LOOK: MLS’s Queens Stadium Renderings

Since MLS publicly disclosed their desire to place a second New York franchise in the middle of Flushing Meadows Park, fans and observers alike have wondered just what the proposed stadium would look like.

Here is your first taste.

SHoP architects, the firm chosen to create Major League Soccer’s Flushing Meadow Park Stadium plans, held a presentation at Columbia University’s Graduate School of Architecture on February 1st focused on the creation of the Barclays Center (home of the Brooklyn Nets).

Amidst the hour long presentation, a very short segue into other projects revealed what Major League Soccer fans have long been waiting for; their first look at renderings of the league’s proposed Flushing Meadows Park Stadium.

More info in link.


----------



## GunnerJacket

ObiUbamba said:


> yes, high school stadiums look cheap and tacky. That is miles away from what a football stadium looks like in Europe.


You're confusing this stadium with those from the top 1-3 tiers of European football. There are plenty of stadiums like this in Europe only fans won't see them on TV because there are about 100 bigger clubs per country that play in something fancier. In the US there aren't that many bona fide professional clubs and their revenues are much, much smaller. You're not going to draw more than about 5,000 fans to a Battery game on average, so there's no need to build anything more elaborate.

There might be about 5-12 comparably sized stadiums in Europe that are nicer but don't confuse this with the state of top-level soccer in the States.


----------



## GunnerJacket

carnifex2005 said:


> FIRST LOOK: MLS’s Queens Stadium Renderings


Intriguing. 35k max capacity before significant renovations feels low, as I was hoping for something framed for easy growth to 40k. If you're gonna think big than act big, no?

As for the general feel I've nothing against the style they seem to be aiming for. Knowing they're on a tight budget you'd expect something light and airy, but given the location I'd expect something more of a main facade to create an iconic view and entrypoint. Something that engages the park rather than just some asymmetrical envelope.

I do hope the tiers are not too broken up by premium seating. That can kill atmosphere.


----------



## Otto Racecar

ObiUbamba said:


> yes, high school stadiums look cheap and tacky. That is miles away from what a football stadium looks like in Europe.


You do realize this is a 3rd division stadium that was built long before most of the current SSS in US, don't you? BTW, I've been to europe numerous times and there are plenty of stadiums very similar to this for small clubs.


----------



## Walbanger

carnifex2005 said:


> FIRST LOOK: MLS’s Queens Stadium Renderings
> 
> Since MLS publicly disclosed their desire to place a second New York franchise in the middle of Flushing Meadows Park, fans and observers alike have wondered just what the proposed stadium would look like.
> 
> Here is your first taste.
> 
> SHoP architects, the firm chosen to create Major League Soccer’s Flushing Meadow Park Stadium plans, held a presentation at Columbia University’s Graduate School of Architecture on February 1st focused on the creation of the Barclays Center (home of the Brooklyn Nets).
> 
> Amidst the hour long presentation, a very short segue into other projects revealed what Major League Soccer fans have long been waiting for; their first look at renderings of the league’s proposed Flushing Meadows Park Stadium.
> 
> More info in link.


Very nice, let's hope USA Rugby can get in talks with this project as that would make a fantastic primary venue for the Eagles (national team) in the Nations biggest city. The pitch need only be as long as LA Galaxy's Home Depot Center at 126m to cater for a rugby field with 8m deep ingoal areas (endzones) which is allowed in Rugby Union and standard for Rugby League.


----------



## krudmonk

Walbanger said:


> Very nice, let's hope USA Rugby can get in talks with this project as that would make a fantastic primary venue for the Eagles (national team) in the Nations biggest city. The pitch need only be as long as LA Galaxy's Home Depot Center at 126m to cater for a rugby field with 8m deep ingoal areas (endzones) which is allowed in Rugby Union and standard for Rugby League.


Rugby's heartland (or the closest this nation comes to having one) is on the opposite coast. As with soccer, we are too big for any national team to have one home.


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## Dan Striker

Cosmos proposal looks amazing but what if the game really gets big in America? is a 25k stadium big enough?


----------



## carnifex2005

Dan Striker said:


> Cosmos proposal looks amazing but what if the game really gets big in America? is a 25k stadium big enough?


It looks amazing but it makes little sense since it looks like they aren't going to be joining MLS. They are slated to play in the NASL (Division Two). That stadium is pretty much 3 times the size it needs to be for a Div 2 team.


----------



## flierfy

Dan Striker said:


> Cosmos proposal looks amazing but what if the game really gets big in America? is a 25k stadium big enough?


The game is already big in America. Just not in the USA and some other countries.


----------



## slipperydog

Colorado Primary









Colorado Secondary









Houston Primary









Houston Secondary









Houston Third









Montreal Third









Vancouver Primary









Toronto Primary









Philadelphia Primary









Philadelphia Secondary









Philadelphia Third

















New York Primary









Kansas City Primary


----------



## svvo

Why only Adidas?


----------



## JJG

svvo said:


> Why only Adidas?


Outfitter Contract. 

NFL - Nike 
NBA - Adidas 
NHL - Reebok 
MLB - Majestic (... I think)


----------



## carnifex2005

svvo said:


> Why only Adidas?


League wide deal for kit. Runs through 2018.


----------



## soup or man

Sounders Primary









Sounders Secondary


----------



## Archbishop

The 3rd Philadelphia one is beautiful. I just wish they had a better jersey sponsor.


----------



## carnifex2005

Archbishop said:


> The 3rd Philadelphia one is beautiful. I just wish they had a better jersey sponsor.


Here's a full body shot of the kit. I like that they didn't go all black and the sock striping matching the logo colour (which matches one of the original colours of the Bethlehem Steel logo) was a nice touch.



















As well Philly asked Bimbo to use one of their old logos for the shirt instead of the current red, white and blue one. That Bimbo logo is from 1947. I think that logo should be used all the time. Far, far better than the current one.


----------



## JJG

carnifex2005 said:


> Here's a full body shot of the kit. I like that they didn't go all black and the sock striping matching the logo colour (which matches one of the original colours of the Bethlehem Steel logo) was a nice touch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As well Philly asked Bimbo to use one of their old logos for the shirt instead of the current red, white and blue one. That Bimbo logo is from 1947. I think that logo should be used all the time. Far, far better than the current one.


Yeah, that's an example of a logo that should have stopped while it was ahead. 

It looks more like a company and less like a cartoon title.


----------



## SVB28

SKC's are interesting but I think I like em. I am sure they will grow on me even more though throughout the season...

Neat touch is that the design is supposed to symbolize the Missouri-Kansas border and the crest is right in the middle, showing their impact on both sides of the state line.


----------



## master_klon

*Construction update - San Antonio Scorpions - Toyota Field (8000)*


----------



## krudmonk

what a view...


----------



## slipperydog

The Home Depot Center will be known as the "StubHub Center", effective June 1, 2013.

http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_22713809/home-depot-center-carson-is-now-stubhub-center


----------



## soup or man

Not the worst name on the planet. At least it'll most likely be called 'The Hub.'


----------



## krudmonk

soup or man said:


> At least it'll most likely be called 'The Hub.'


not when Chivas are playing...


----------



## SJAnfield

krudmonk said:


> not when Chivas are playing...


When Chivas plays, they can call it The Dud.


----------



## joezierer

The Hub, so a place for children?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hub_(TV_channel)


----------



## 1772

Betlehem Steel F.C. = Awesomeness


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

master_klon said:


> *Construction update - San Antonio Scorpions - Toyota Field (8000)*


This one looks awesome. :banana:

No football there?


BTW, I see Scorpions are heavily signing players from former Yugoslavioa. :nuts:


----------



## slipperydog

The Minnesota Stars will now be known as Minnesota United FC, or "MUFC".










http://www.nasl.com/index.php?id=3&newsid=4144


----------



## tehlazerviking

slipperydog said:


>


I'm really liking the badge.


----------



## SJAnfield

tehlazerviking said:


> I'm really liking the badge.


I didn't at first, but I'm with you now. I like it.


----------



## carnifex2005

SJAnfield said:


> I didn't at first, but I'm with you now. I like it.


The new kit are spectacular. Some of the best in North America...


----------



## Willygto2

United with the colors of City :troll: :cheers:


----------



## JJG

Willygto2 said:


> United with the colors of City :troll: :cheers:


'Merica!


----------



## slipperydog

Columbus president says the time to consider renovating Crew Stadium or building a new facility is approaching.

http://www.massivereport.com/2013/3...approaching-crossroads-according-to-mccullers


----------



## joezierer

Their stadium isn't even 15 years old yet.


----------



## slipperydog

It is quickly becoming obsolete though. Here is an article from ESPN on the current state of Crew Stadium and why it may need to be replaced soon.

http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/soccerusa/id/1748?cc=5901


----------



## GunnerJacket

Given the "spartan" construction and the less-than-capacity average crowds for Columbus, I'd first ask why they can't rebuild on the same site one stand at a time? I've not heard any complaints about the location and the land deal seems great, financially. So do one side, then the other, then both ends. 

Maybe there's more to this than I know, but often the people making these decisions can be guilty of over-thinking.


----------



## carnifex2005

GunnerJacket said:


> Given the "spartan" construction and the less-than-capacity average crowds for Columbus, I'd first ask why they can't rebuild on the same site one stand at a time? I've not heard any complaints about the location and the land deal seems great, financially. So do one side, then the other, then both ends.
> 
> Maybe there's more to this than I know, but often the people making these decisions can be guilty of over-thinking.


I've always heard stories that Columbus want to eventually move downtown close to the arena area where the NHL team resides. Crew fans think that would be a much better location than where they are now.


----------



## LouDagreat

Honestly, I'd be more interested in following a New York MLS soccer team if they weren't called Red Bulls.

Hopefully, the Cosmos get in the MLS.


----------



## SVB28

carnifex2005 said:


> I've always heard stories that Columbus want to eventually move downtown close to the arena area where the NHL team resides. Crew fans think that would be a much better location than where they are now.


They aren't allowed to ever leave Crew Stadium

Dos a cero :banana:


----------



## will101

The new stadium for the Earthquakes is officially under construction. Pix of noisy construction equipment at work is on the blog here:
http://www.sjearthquakes.com/blog/new-stadium
This makes two major stadiums under construction, less than four miles apart.


----------



## slipperydog

And the A's proposed ballpark is a stone's throw away as well.


----------



## chris5854

this might be a bit off topic, but i cant find a home depot center forum and was wondering why half of their seats are benches, whats the reasoning behind this I mean they can afford multimillion dollar contracts so they should be able to afford the entire stadium to have seats, do benches allow them to fit more people in the stadium?


----------



## JJG

chris5854 said:


> this might be a bit off topic, but i cant find a home depot center forum and was wondering why half of their seats are benches, whats the reasoning behind this I mean they can afford multimillion dollar contracts so they should be able to afford the entire stadium to have seats, do benches allow them to fit more people in the stadium?


You kinda answered your own question.


----------



## chris5854

I don't know that doesn't seem a very satisfactory explanation, I mean la only had 6 sell outs last year and that includes the last 3 regular season games of David Beckham, their average was just over 23k. I understand having standing room only sections but i think benches are the worst of both worlds you get neither the comfort of regular seats nor the atmosphere created by fans on their feet all game, also if they were to go to all seats it would create a lower capacity (24-25k) creating more scarcity for tickets and a better game day atmosphere which is what most sports teams are aiming for, its why so many baseball teams are building smaller ballparks yet getting higher attendances. The real reason this confuses me is because la is trying to brand itself as high end and elite, its why they spend millions of dollars on stars, and having half your stadium be benches seems so high school football


----------



## JJG

chris5854 said:


> I don't know that doesn't seem a very satisfactory explanation, I mean la only had 6 sell outs last year and that includes the last 3 regular season games of David Beckham, their average was just over 23k. I understand having standing room only sections but i think benches are the worst of both worlds you get neither the comfort of regular seats nor the atmosphere created by fans on their feet all game, also if they were to go to all seats it would create a lower capacity (24-25k) creating more scarcity for tickets and a better game day atmosphere which is what most sports teams are aiming for, its why so many baseball teams are building smaller ballparks yet getting higher attendances. The real reason this confuses me is because la is trying to brand itself as high end and elite, its why they spend millions of dollars on stars, and having half your stadium be benches seems so high school football


It's really not that big a deal if a stadium has bench seating or chair-back seating... just as long as there is seating. At least not in the States or, as far as I know, Canada. 
Besides, those stadiums aren't JUST for soccer (even though it's a "soccer specific stadium") you know, and when it comes to having concerts or other events, sometimes bench seating is better.


----------



## SJAnfield

The Home Depot Center was one of the early "soccer specific" stadiums, and did no incorporate all the bells and whistles many if the new ones are starting to feature. In fact, when they built it, LA didn't really even have any major "stars". Beckham came aboard years after it was built. In fact, the longevity of the MLS was still suspect at the time the HDC was built, and building a multi-million dollar park with all the stops was risky. Soccer is still an emerging sport in the States, and the MLS is an infant and relative newcomer compared to its counterparts (NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL). The target fan is not the typical US sports fan, and will not require the comforts of an NFL, NBA or European experience. Benches fit in far more fans, and is cheaper. A ticket to an MLS event, even in LA, is super cheap. The casual fan is not going to the HDC to be pampered, but rather have a cheap night with the family or friends, have a few hot dogs and beers, and go home. Lots of soccer moms and people who heard word of mouth mixed with soccer fanatics. Fact is, there are simply not enough hard-core soccer fans to justify building a soccer version NFL style complex. KC and the new NY stadiums (assuming the Cosmo's one is built) are a relatively new concept, (top-notch soccer-only facility), after over 15 years of planting a solid foundation. The States are only just now entering a period in which owners and cities are willing to build soccer cathedrals, and offer fans a high-quality product with all the luxuries the other guys offer.

The other thing you have to keep in mind, is the HDC wasn't actually a fully "soccer-specific" facility. In actuality, while AEG intended for the Gals to be the feature tenant, its actually a mix-use facility. (Remember, the MLS was not guaranteed to survive long-term, and if it imploded, you needed a backup reason for building the thing) It was built to accommodate rugby, concerts/festivals, monster trucks/X-Games, lacrosse, high school football and had tossed around hosting non-NFL pro football. And let's not forget the tennis complex built into the HDC. These are all events that also do not require an all-seater, or maximum comfort. Just a place to pack the people in, as many as possible. If the Gals continue to grow in popularity and acquire a fan base that has higher end tastes, expect the HDC to be replaced by a new state-of-the-art facility that will offer more comforts.


----------



## slipperydog

DC United making 'tangible progress' on new stadium

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...jason-levien-says-club-making-tangible-progre


----------



## Scoots71

chris5854 said:


> I don't know that doesn't seem a very satisfactory explanation, I mean la only had 6 sell outs last year and that includes the last 3 regular season games of David Beckham, their average was just over 23k. I understand having standing room only sections but i think benches are the worst of both worlds you get neither the comfort of regular seats nor the atmosphere created by fans on their feet all game, also if they were to go to all seats it would create a lower capacity (24-25k) creating more scarcity for tickets and a better game day atmosphere which is what most sports teams are aiming for, its why so many baseball teams are building smaller ballparks yet getting higher attendances. The real reason this confuses me is because la is trying to brand itself as high end and elite, its why they spend millions of dollars on stars, and having half your stadium be benches seems so high school football


Galaxy at the Home Depot Center are also handicapped by a local ordinance capping the capacity for weeknight games. I forget the actual number, but a weeknight sellout is a few thousand less than a weekend sellout.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

yes, i think the weekday capacity is 15,000 which is 12,000 less than capacity


----------



## GunnerJacket

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> yes, i think the weekday capacity is 15,000 which is 12,000 less than capacity


Crikey! That much? Any chance that can be alleviated in the future through traffic improvements or other measures, ir is that restriction in perpetuity?


----------



## bd popeye

GunnerJacket said:


> Crikey! That much? Any chance that can be alleviated in the future through traffic improvements or other measures, ir is that restriction in perpetuity?


The traffic flow on the freeways near that stadium on week nights at rush hour is in a word ..horrendous. You've got the 405, 110 and 91 converging in that area...unless you've been there between 4pm and 7pm MON-FRI...It has to be experienced to be believed.


----------



## ielag

GunnerJacket said:


> Crikey! That much? Any chance that can be alleviated in the future through traffic improvements or other measures, ir is that restriction in perpetuity?


It's because of night school at the university, much less parking spaces available for the stadium. Cal State Dominguez Hills is essentially a commuter school, not much dorm life, so lots of driving students. I'd say about half of the parking spots used for a sold out game are on the east side of the campus, then it's a good hike to the stadium.

If the Galaxy know of a potential big weeknight crowd due to ticket demand, they use parking off-campus a few miles away and have shuttles. But the Galaxy have to foot the bill of the buses and lose out on parking $$$.

This does not apply in the summer though, when most students are not in school.


----------



## Neda Say

carnifex2005 said:


> The new kit are spectacular. Some of the best in North America...




They are really classy indeed!


----------



## Benn

The Away shirt is really crisp, love the subtle wing in black on black. Powder blue isn't a bad thing either. Now if they were just an MLS team.....


----------



## JJG

Benn said:


> The Away shirt is really crisp, love the subtle wing in black on black. Powder blue isn't a bad thing either. Now if they were just an MLS team.....


Eventually.


----------



## krudmonk

Those are beautiful shirts



so sick of Adidas templates


----------



## WILLYGTO3




----------



## Scoots71

eMKay said:


> And it seemed to me, that the fans had a blast.


Looked like they were all there singing and jumping till the end.


----------



## will101

That 80 proof enthusiasm will do it every time.


----------



## will101

Scoots71 said:


> Last I checked, the R word that they usually talk about doesn't cover the pitch. It wouldn't have changed the play on the field.


Now you're applying logic to a debate that rarely has any.


----------



## Darloeye

What is the *R* word !? 

Also what was the Result of the game ? See what I did their.


----------



## carnifex2005

Darloeye said:


> What is the *R* word !?
> 
> Also what was the Result of the game ? See what I did their.


Roof. Europeans who post here seem to have hard-ons for wanting to put roofs on all North American stadiums.


----------



## Darloeye

carnifex2005 said:


> Roof. Europeans who post here seem to have hard-ons for wanting to put roofs on all North American stadiums.


_Really Never seen that topic on this site._


Should report the reprobates, Tho retreating under the roof can repair ones colder bits rather faster. Think we all love Retrackable roofs tho. really do should go to bed. :nuts:


----------



## will101

Darloeye said:


> _Really Never seen that topic on this site._
> 
> 
> Should report the reprobates, Tho retreating under the roof can repair ones colder bits rather faster. Think we all love Retrackable roofs tho. really do should go to bed. :nuts:


The time stamp for that post was 10:19 p.m. Pacific time, which should be 6:19 a.m. your time. So what were you doing still up?


----------



## eMKay

Darloeye said:


> What is the R word !?
> 
> Also what was the Result of the game ? See what I did their.


USA 1 - Costa Rica 0


----------



## 1772

Why on earth would you put a World Cup qualifier in Colorado in March? 
I get it if you're Canada, you don't have any options, but this could've been played in Miami or somewhere in the south.


----------



## ObiUbamba

The USA FA hates the southeast. We very rarely get any USA games and have absolutely no MLS teams.


----------



## vitaming

In spite of the conditions, it was a very good crowd. Anywhere in the south would have been pro-Costa Rican and probably sparsely attended. I'm sure they also considered avoiding cities with NCAA tournament games (KC for example).


----------



## slipperydog

1772 said:


> Why on earth would you put a World Cup qualifier in Colorado in March?
> I get it if you're Canada, you don't have any options, but this could've been played in Miami or somewhere in the south.


Altitude preparation for the Azteca.


----------



## bd popeye

Scoots71 said:


> And people wonder why the MLS plays out of season compared to Europe. Half the stadiums in the league would look like this for December-February every year.


that's right..

Denver, New York, New England, Philadelphia, D.C. ,Kansas City, Salt Lake City, Columbus, Chicago, Toronto, Montreal.. and maybe Seattle & Vancouver from time to time.. All cities subject to very inclement weather.

As an example Denver gets on average five *feet* of snow every winter..Toronto 4.5 feet...Chicago 3.5 feet..Montreal 6.9 feet.. etc etc..

And no I do not know how much snow falls on average in Europe.


----------



## Darloeye

will101 said:


> The time stamp for that post was 10:19 p.m. Pacific time, which should be 6:19 a.m. your time. So what were you doing still up?


Not being able to sleep was the main reason for still being up at 05:19 hno:


----------



## bd popeye

The Costa Ricans are protesting their match with the US..

http://news.yahoo.com/soccer-furious-costa-rica-protest-snowy-defeat-u-061548911--sow.html



> By Simon Evans
> 
> DENVER, Colorado, March 23 (Reuters) - Furious Costa Rica coach Jorge Luis Pinto said it was an "embarassment to football" that Friday's World Cup qualifier with the United States was played in strong snow, while his federation promised to make an official protest.
> 
> The U.S. won 1-0 but Pinto was riled the game was played on a snowy field with a covering that became deeper as the game wore on.
> 
> "It was an embarrassment to football, disrespectful to the game," an animated Pinto told reporters.
> 
> The game was played at the 19,374 capacity Dicks Sporting Goods Park, home of Major League Soccer's Colorado Rapids, nestled at the foot of the Rockie Mountains.
> 
> Pinto said the "legal conditions" for playing the game were not in place and a Federation official told Costa Rican media that an official protest would be made to FIFA on Saturday.
> 
> The referee stopped the game briefly in the 55th minute but only to ask ground staff to clear snow from the pitch markings and the game resumed after a few minutes.
> 
> Costa Rica's players showed little dissent on the field, going close to an equaliser in the second half, but they vented their anger after the game.
> 
> "Honestly, it was robbery, a disgrace, I've never played a game in these conditions," said midfielder Cristian Bolanos, who plays with Danish club FC Copenhagen.
> 
> "You couldn't see the ball ... if we had played without snow, we would have won, I am sure," he said.
> 
> Striker Alvaro Saborio, who plays in Major League Soccer for Real Salt Lake, concurred.
> 
> "We couldn't play in those conditions, they should have stopped the game in the first half," he said.
> 
> Had the game been abandoned it would have had to be finished in the following 48 hours, causing a logistical problem for both teams who play again on Tuesday.
> 
> U.S. Soccer Federation president Sunil Gulati felt the referee had made the right decision.
> 
> "Frankly, (stopping) would not have been to the advantage of either of the two teams, since they both play on Tuesday," Gulati told reporters.
> 
> "Obviously you worry about the safety of players and being able to see the ball. The referee and the match commissioner made the decision that the game could continue and I think it was the right decision," he said.
> 
> Gulati said the decision to play in Denver in March had not been based on any desire to have difficult wintry conditions for Central American opponents, but was mainly due to the desire to spend a week at altitude before a game in Mexico City on Tuesday.
> 
> "If the thought is that we want to play Costa Rica in a situation where it could snow, then there are some places that maybe could have been better, like Boston or somewhere," he said. (Reporting By Simon Evans. Editing by Patrick Johnston)


----------



## Otto Racecar

bd popeye said:


> The Costa Ricans are protesting their match with the US..
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/soccer-furious-costa-rica-protest-snowy-defeat-u-061548911--sow.html


Right, but 105 degree temperatures for games scheduled at noon or pitch conditions at some of the stadiums that are worse then U-6 pitches in the US and Europe are perfectly fine. The ref stopped the match and both teams seemed more then eager to keep playing. Costa Rica has no problem ignoring that the conditions were probably to blame for the ref missing the penalty when dempsey got tripped in the box which would have probably put the score at 2-0. The US looked like the better team and would have been regardless of the weather. Roy Miller was getting abused most of the match for Costa Rica. If anything, better weather probably would have led to a bigger win for the US. Sour Grapes by Costa Rica!


----------



## Scoots71

slipperydog said:


> Altitude preparation for the Azteca.


Also, aside from Canada, the USA has a distinct advantage of theoretically being accustomed more to the cold than their Central American and Caribbean rivals. Typically, the early qualifiers will be played in cooler climates in order to tighten up the opponents and create the environmental home field advantage. This was part of why Columbus originally became the home of WCQ USA-Mexico matches. Now though the reason is also about the intimate stadium far from the Mexico border, keeping the Mexican fans out.


----------



## SJAnfield

As much as I hate that the US won't play Mexico here in California, it really is for the best. I went to one of the last matches they held in the bay (possibly the last), and it was easily a 90-10 ratio in favor of Mexico. Probably even more screwed in Mexico's favor. What made it even worse is they handed out US flag placards, and they were torn up, crossed out, desecrated, and worse by many of the Mexico fans. Some US supporters I was sitting amongst took great offense, and it turned rather ugly very quickly. I remember we came seconds away from leaving, as we saw tens of thousands of people in green shirts quickly mobilize against the small group of US fans. Luckily security and the police acted extremely quickly. 

But despite the ugly near-brawling of that event, it was simply embarrassing. Being an away fan on your home ground is simply unacceptable. Plus if we can use our weather as an advantage, take it. Anything helps.


----------



## 1772

SJAnfield said:


> As much as I hate that the US won't play Mexico here in California, it really is for the best. I went to one of the last matches they held in the bay (possibly the last), and it was easily a 90-10 ratio in favor of Mexico. Probably even more screwed in Mexico's favor. What made it even worse is they handed out US flag placards, and they were torn up, crossed out, desecrated, and worse by many of the Mexico fans. Some US supporters I was sitting amongst took great offense, and it turned rather ugly very quickly. I remember we came seconds away from leaving, as we saw tens of thousands of people in green shirts quickly mobilize against the small group of US fans. Luckily security and the police acted extremely quickly.
> 
> But despite the ugly near-brawling of that event, it was simply embarrassing. Being an away fan on your home ground is simply unacceptable. Plus if we can use our weather as an advantage, take it. Anything helps.


I'm afraid that is something you'll have to get used to unless the game is played in Montana or Maine. hno:


----------



## joezierer

If the Costa Ricans hate playing in the cold maybe it's time to split North America off of CONCACAF. Let the awful caribbean and central american teams play each other over 1 world cup spot.


----------



## GunnerJacket

SJAnfield said:


> As much as I hate that the US won't play Mexico here in California, it really is for the best.


I won't suggest your story epitomizes every El Tri fan, but your point remains valid. The USMNT is trying to build earnest US fans, so putting themselves in positions catering to opposing fanbases is literally asinine. The benefit of extra money becomes offset by hampering the effort to foster future members for Uncle Sam's Brigade.

- - - -

For those griping about the weather, sorry but deal with it. Could the facility have been better prepared for snow? Sure. Were the conditions harmful to the players? Not really, and certainly no more harmful than the obscene heat or torrential rains they've encountered in other games. If Costa Rica felt they were being treated unfairly, then they should never have taken the field.

You're professionals. Be professional about it.


----------



## carnifex2005

1772 said:


> I'm afraid that is something you'll have to get used to unless the game is played in Montana or Maine. hno:


That's the reason why all the US World Cup qualifying matches against Mexico have been held in Columbus (2001,2005,2009 and now 2013).


----------



## Scoots71

carnifex2005 said:


> That's the reason why all the US World Cup qualifying matches against Mexico have been held in Columbus (2001,2005,2009 and now 2013).


This exactly. That's why Friendlies are almost always played in the big stadiums in Texas, Phoenix, or LA, while WCQs are in the smaller park in Columbus. Friendlies are for money, WCQs are for function.


----------



## SJAnfield

GunnerJacket said:


> I won't suggest your story epitomizes every El Tri fan, but your point remains valid. The USMNT is trying to build earnest US fans, so putting themselves in positions catering to opposing fanbases is literally asinine. The benefit of extra money becomes offset by hampering the effort to foster future members for Uncle Sam's Brigade.
> 
> - - - -
> 
> For those griping about the weather, sorry but deal with it. Could the facility have been better prepared for snow? Sure. Were the conditions harmful to the players? Not really, and certainly no more harmful than the obscene heat or torrential rains they've encountered in other games. If Costa Rica felt they were being treated unfairly, then they should never have taken the field.
> 
> You're professionals. Be professional about it.


I certainly don't view the majority of Mexico fans in any negative light. Many are close friends, and I've had amazing times when I've attended various Mexican national team matches held in the bay. I'm of Nicaraguan decent, and went to see the Gold Cup match when the two played, decked out in my Nicaragua apparel. The Mexican fans, some 60 some thousand, were buying me beers, embracing me, and made the game one I'll never forget.


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## slipperydog

Name being installed on the home of San Antonio Scopions FC


----------



## krudmonk

EDIT: this board needs a spoiler function for large pictures


----------



## bd popeye

krudmonk said:


> EDIT: this board needs a spoiler function for large pictures


Exactly..:applause:^^

And as the head moderator of an vbulletin forum I can tell you that such a function exist. We use it in our forum. It automatically re-sizes pictures to 500px × 291px. Then adds a bar on top of the photo used to make the picture larger..but not super-sized.


----------



## WILLYGTO3

krudmonk said:


> EDIT: this board needs a spoiler function for large pictures


+1 and a youtube or video button.


----------



## bd popeye

Newer versions of vbulletin forum are available. the owner/administrator needs to upgrade. This forum, SSC, is running vBulletin® Version 3.8.7. My forum is running vBulletin® Version 4.2.0. We have the features mentioned by WILLYGTO3.

This is what this monster pic looks like in my forum;

This is a screen shot;


----------



## Lumbergo

what stadium is that?


----------



## SJAnfield

Lumbergo said:


> what stadium is that?


New Earthquakes stadium


----------



## will101

Following up on an earlier point of discussion, FIFA has told Costa Rica to get stuffed (my words) regarding their protest of the Snow Bowl in Denver last week.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/26/sport/football/united-states-costa-rica-mexico-football/


----------



## krudmonk

There are new cutaway drawings of how the stands will look, or rather, how things will look from the stands. 
http://issuu.com/sjearthquakes/docs/bowlsectioncomparisons
I tried posting the images alone from several other sources and they were all too big for this place.


----------



## krudmonk

WILLYGTO3 said:


> +1 and a youtube or video button.


Yes!

EDIT: meant to tack this onto my previous post...


----------



## slipperydog

Pretty big news from the Orlando City President:

We should have stadium renderings in 6-8 weeks, expansion to be awarded by end of 2013, and Orlando City SC should start MLS play in 2015. Even if a second NY team was announced first, Orlando City would likely play first. The stadium is three blocks from SunRail (Church St), between the Amway Center and Citrus Bowl. There is still one lot still to buy. Orlando City SC may spend month or two in the Citrus Bowl in 2015 while the MLS stadium is completed.


----------



## carnifex2005

slipperydog said:


> Pretty big news from the Orlando City President:
> 
> We should have stadium renderings in 6-8 weeks, expansion to be awarded by end of 2013, and Orlando City SC should start MLS play in 2015. Even if a second NY team was announced first, Orlando City would likely play first. The stadium is three blocks from SunRail (Church St), between the Amway Center and Citrus Bowl. There is still one lot still to buy. Orlando City SC may spend month or two in the Citrus Bowl in 2015 while the MLS stadium is completed.


That actually was clarified  by Orlando City that the WANT an expansion franchise in 2013, not that they actually have one. That being said, the stadium land deal seems to be almost complete.


----------



## SJAnfield

krudmonk said:


> There are new cutaway drawings of how the stands will look, or rather, how things will look from the stands.
> http://issuu.com/sjearthquakes/docs/bowlsectioncomparisons
> I tried posting the images alone from several other sources and they were all too big for this place.


The more I see the updated facade of the new stadium, the more I like it.


----------



## raymondleone

*San Antonio Scorpions 2013*


----------



## krudmonk

SJAnfield said:


> The more I see the updated facade of the new stadium, the more I like it.


It was definitely tough to tell the actual pattern/texture/material before. There it looks a bit more real, tangible even.


----------



## carnifex2005

krudmonk said:


> It was definitely tough to tell the actual pattern/texture/material before. There it looks a bit more real, tangible even.


The San Jose Earthquakes president tweeted this photo of the construction documents that had to be dropped off at city hall...


----------



## SVB28

Chelsea and Manchester City will reportedly be playing a friendly in the US on May 23, right after the Premier League season ends... in St Louis... at Busch Stadium.

https://twitter.com/TaylorTwellman/status/317307269450702848

WHY would they NOT play this on the other side of the state?!?! Arrowhead Stadium and even Sporting Park would be better options than Busch or the EJ Dome.

This sucks, I would have loved to go see Chelsea play but I won't be able to drive 4 hours to STL, plus that is my last day of school. Damn


----------



## krudmonk

All other sports look horrible in baseball stadia.


----------



## slipperydog

New video board and goal frame are up:


----------



## JJG

slipperydog said:


> New video board and goal frame are up:


Nice _start_...


----------



## KOSTYK

What capacity will have the stadium of San Antonio Scorpions?


----------



## popnfresh

KOSTYK said:


> What capacity will have the stadium of San Antonio Scorpions?


8k to start and expandable to near 20k at full build out.


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## krudmonk

Not bad (at all) but the monogram is a bit weird with the postal abbreviation of "Virginia." People outside the US probably would ask about the A, but I doubt many people outside the US will be asking anyway.


----------



## slipperydog

The Indianapolis team name will be announced sometime this month. The Ottawa NASL team is asking for fans to choose the team logo from three designs:


----------



## Darloeye

Think the first logo.


----------



## slipperydog

Either of the first two are okay with me, but the first one is just a little confusing. Not sure what it's trying to do. I would go with the second one. Simple, smart.


----------



## koolio

Third one is the way to go. I'm getting tired of all soccer team logos with shields on them. Something a little creative would not go amiss.


----------



## Neda Say

So two shields or something indistinctive... the first shield is the "better" one but no logo floats my boat here... The third one is not that bad but the font chosen is really dull and boring IMO!


----------



## slipperydog

Pittsburgh opens new stadium on Saturday


----------



## SJAnfield

slipperydog said:


> Pittsburgh opens new stadium on Saturday
> 
> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VraIQgkzmAM">YouTube Link</a>


I like it. Not much room for expansion, but I'm sure there are ways. Too bad they didn't update the logo to go with the shiny new home.


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> Pittsburgh opens new stadium on Saturday


Brilliant! Intimate and appropriately sized for the team right now, in a great location that I hear is readily accessible and best of all it's all theirs! For all the hubub about the importance and the impact of MLS venues, arguably the quality of facilities for 2nd tier teams is just as important. For the US to evolve as a soccer nation we need that 2nd division to viable for teams and for players, giving more guys the chance to practice full-time. The more teams like Charleston, San Antonio, Rochester and now Pittsburgh can look and behave like earnest clubs, the better off they'll be as a business.

Wish the folks in Pittsburgh all the best with this new home.


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

GunnerJacket said:


> Brilliant! Intimate and appropriately sized for the team right now, in a great location that I hear is readily accessible and best of all it's all theirs! For all the hubub about the importance and the impact of MLS venues, arguably the quality of facilities for 2nd tier teams is just as important. For the US to evolve as a soccer nation we need that 2nd division to viable for teams and for players, giving more guys the chance to practice full-time. The more teams like Charleston, San Antonio, Rochester and now Pittsburgh can look and behave like earnest clubs, the better off they'll be as a business.
> 
> Wish the folks in Pittsburgh all the best with this new home.


Charleston, Rochester and Pittsburgh are all 3rd Tier USL-Pro teams though, aren't they?


----------



## GunnerJacket

ElDudarinodotcom said:


> Charleston, Rochester and Pittsburgh are all 3rd Tier USL-Pro teams though, aren't they?


Technically yes, but I was mainly meaning anything in the minor leagues. After all, the economic gaps between USL and NASL are pretty slim, especially compared to the bump up to MLS. The point being that we need to see non-MLS clubs to not only survive but prosper enough that the team can thrive without TV money, the players can give their development full attention and the fans can see a proper soccer experience rather than feel like part of a novelty.

Every solid soccer stadium helps this effort and is a big, big step for the sport in the US and Canada.


----------



## ccgk51156

*Highmark Stadium*

I am glad there is some chatter on here about Highmark Stadium. I am living in the Pittsburgh region and I would love to see a great soccer community in the region (I am originally from the Hershey area and have attended a few Hershey Wildcats games and Harrisburg Heat Indoor games).

I want to ask you all what could Pittsburgh Riverhounds do to this stadium in the future if they MLS would actually be interested in adding them? To me, this stadium looks like a high school football stadium. It is in a great location, but it is very limited. There are 3 options that I see:
1. Expand/renovate Highmark Stadium to 20,000+ (any ideas or designs?)
2. Use Heinz Field (not ideal!, over-used during the fall, as is)
3. Build a new stadium (location? Station Square is perfect OR Civic Arena site)

Also, I think they should have rebranded the Pittsburgh Riverhounds. Steel City United is a top choice for me (and they can have a "Riverhound" be the official mascot and make tribute to the past name). The colors obviously MUST CHANGE to Black/Yellow/White. They made some positive gains this year with a yellow/yellow/yellow kit and a black/black/black kit, but they are terrible looking.

I picture a rebranded kit to look like this jersey from FC Bayern in 07/08 with Black and Yellow being the colors instead of Red and White.


----------



## GunnerJacket

ccgk51156 said:


> I am originally from the Hershey area and have attended a few Hershey Wildcats games and Harrisburg Heat Indoor games.


Cool. I used to have season tickets to the Atlanta Attack indoor matches, and Harrisburg and Canton were a perennial power back in the early 90's. 


> I want to ask you all what could Pittsburgh Riverhounds do to this stadium in the future if they MLS would actually be interested in adding them? To me, this stadium looks like a high school football stadium. It is in a great location, but it is very limited. There are 3 options that I see:
> 1. Expand/renovate Highmark Stadium to 20,000+ (any ideas or designs?)
> 2. Use Heinz Field (not ideal!, over-used during the fall, as is)
> 3. Build a new stadium (location? Station Square is perfect OR Civic Arena site)


Don't be discouraged by the current size and grade of the venue. Overbuilding or playing in too large a venue is an atmosphere killer and a financial drain.

Based on my views of the site via the internet the team can only build on one side and both ends, so I'd guess that and parking limits would mean a max capacity at 15k, or possibly even closer to 10-12k. (Traffic and accessibility can be killers in this sense.) For the foreseeable future that should be more than plenty, and as we've seen with many teams you don't need a large venue to create atmosphere and character. I personally would love to see it built out to that level.

Obviously this also means the 'Hounds won't be playing there in MLS. Should the team be blessed enough to have demand that outgrows that site then it will be considered a blessing to be such a strong franchise. Heinz Field wouldn't be an option, however, unless they could guarantee filling in the lower bowl consistently as we wee in Seattle. Anything less and using an NFL venue is not viable, even less so considering the 'Hounds would have different ownership (meaning higher rent costs). So the 'Hounds will likely be at this site until they're able to secure 12k or so season ticket holders.



> Also, I think they should have rebranded the Pittsburgh Riverhounds. Steel City United is a top choice for me (and they can have a "Riverhound" be the official mascot and make tribute to the past name).


I disagree. Steel City United could be seen as a cheap attempt at Euro-posing or simply mooching off the NFL team's namesake. The Riverhounds have a unique brand and, especially given the stadium location, evokes the City's new hallmark as an appealing and vibrant riverfront city. At the least, I hope you don't become so enrapt with the concept of rebranding that you miss out on what you've got. Plenty of much worse brands, logos and colors to be had, for sure.


----------



## slipperydog

Three Rivers FC


----------



## WILLYGTO3

*Pittsburgh SC*

Home kit









Away kit









Badge inspired in the coat of arms of the city


----------



## bd popeye

Very nice. Colors in tradition to the city of Pittsburgh. In case you did not know the three other major spots teams in Pittsburgh the Penguins, Pirates and Steelers all have the same colors.


----------



## slipperydog

Here's a current live webcam view of the Pittsburgh stadium. Gives a nice perspective of the riverfront location and surrounding area:
http://oxblue.com/open/RiverhoundsStadium


----------



## KLynch

They play in the USL Premier Development league, not sure much about it, but the Baltimore Bohemians recently moved into the city to play at Ridely Athletic Complex which is the great new stadium for Loyola University Lacrosse and Soccer. The stadium has stunning views of the city from the stands. The team is owned by the son of the Orioles owners, so I guess we'll see if they have aspirations to make the club much bigger in the future.


----------



## al74

bd popeye said:


> Very nice. Colors in tradition to the city of Pittsburgh. In case you did not know the three other major spots teams in Pittsburgh the Penguins, Pirates and Steelers all have the same colors.


This is Peñarol, Uruguayan greatest team


----------



## GunnerJacket

KLynch said:


> They play in the USL Premier Development league, not sure much about it, but the Baltimore Bohemians recently moved into the city to play at Ridely Athletic Complex which is the great new stadium for Loyola University Lacrosse and Soccer. The stadium has stunning views of the city from the stands...


You tease! :tongue2: Don't sell us on this comment only to fail to provide any pictures of said view!!


----------



## KLynch

My bad! I'll be shooting the lacrosse game on Saturday, I'll get some good video of the views.


----------



## joezierer

al74 said:


> This is Peñarol, Uruguayan greatest team


He was just using them as an example of what Pittsburgh should look like.


----------



## RMB2007

> It was a night for history Saturday at the former Longhorn Quarry, where the Scorpions played their first match at the brand-new Toyota Field in front of an announced capacity crowd of 8,177.


http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/...stings-debut-of-Scorpions-stadium-4432990.php


----------



## carnifex2005

A game pic from San Antonio...


----------



## drewdave

The Carolina RailHawks (NASL) have expanded their stadium, WakeMed Soccer Park, to 10,000.


----------



## Cjones2451

RMB2007 said:


> http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/scorpions/article/Shutout-loss-stings-debut-of-Scorpions-stadium-4432990.php


Wasn't that a bigger crowd than Chivas had vs Colorado??????


----------



## RMB2007

Cjones2451 said:


> Wasn't that a bigger crowd than Chivas had vs Colorado??????


Nope, well, not according to this:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2013-04-13-CHV-v-COL/stats


----------



## Cjones2451

RMB2007 said:


> Nope, well, not according to this:
> 
> http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2013-04-13-CHV-v-COL/stats


Well......it was close. Crowds for Chivas weren't this bad last year. Do the fans really dislike the ownership and management direction that much...?????


----------



## slipperydog

> *D.C. remains front-runner but Maryland back in picture for proposed United stadium*
> 
> April 15, 2013 at 9:35 am
> _Although D.C. United remains optimistic about reaching an agreement to build a stadium at Buzzard Point in Washington, the MLS club has taken renewed interest in Maryland, sources close to the situation told the Insider.
> 
> United executives are “going to play it out with D.C. first, but patience is thinner than it was six months ago,” said one person, who requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of the negotiations._


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-back-in-picture-for-proposed-united-stadium/


----------



## carnifex2005

*U.S. will host new International Champions Cup this summer*

Real Madrid, Juventus and the Los Angeles Galaxy are three of the eight teams that will take part in the U.S. this summer in the first edition of an annual knockout tournament involving some of the world's top soccer clubs, SI.com has learned.

The new tournament, which is being called the International Champions Cup, will take place all around the U.S., with the final at Miami's Sun Life Stadium. There will be two groups of four -- Eastern and Western groups. The tournament, which has a major title sponsor and a TV deal, will be officially announced on Tuesday in Miami, with figures from several of the participating clubs on hand.

The European teams involved will be in the preseason for their 2013-14 club campaigns.
The ICC marks the first big splash into soccer of Miami Dolphins owner Stephen Ross and his RSE Ventures firm, whose CEO is former New York Jets executive Matt Higgins. In October, they hired Charlie Stillitano and Jon Sheiman from CAA Sports in a deal that included the acquisition of rights to the World Football Challenge, a series of preseason exhibitions with European clubs they had organized in the U.S. in recent years.

The World Football Challenge is now morphing into the International Champions Cup. After several years of one-off summer exhibitions, it will be a change of pace to see top teams in a tournament in which the winner takes home a trophy. In an additional wrinkle, one of this year's group games will take place in Europe.


----------



## slipperydog

Fluminense president looking to purchase 2nd or 3rd division club in the US and bring Fluminense brand.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ricardo...ll-club-we-will-buy-a-soccer-team-in-the-usa/


----------



## slipperydog

carnifex2005 said:


> *U.S. will host new International Champions Cup this summer*
> 
> Real Madrid, Juventus and the Los Angeles Galaxy are three of the eight teams that will take part in the U.S. this summer in the first edition of an annual knockout tournament involving some of the world's top soccer clubs, SI.com has learned.
> 
> The new tournament, which is being called the International Champions Cup, will take place all around the U.S., with the final at Miami's Sun Life Stadium. There will be two groups of four -- Eastern and Western groups. The tournament, which has a major title sponsor and a TV deal, will be officially announced on Tuesday in Miami, with figures from several of the participating clubs on hand.
> 
> The European teams involved will be in the preseason for their 2013-14 club campaigns.
> The ICC marks the first big splash into soccer of Miami Dolphins owner Stephen Ross and his RSE Ventures firm, whose CEO is former New York Jets executive Matt Higgins. In October, they hired Charlie Stillitano and Jon Sheiman from CAA Sports in a deal that included the acquisition of rights to the World Football Challenge, a series of preseason exhibitions with European clubs they had organized in the U.S. in recent years.
> 
> The World Football Challenge is now morphing into the International Champions Cup. After several years of one-off summer exhibitions, it will be a change of pace to see top teams in a tournament in which the winner takes home a trophy. In an additional wrinkle, one of this year's group games will take place in Europe.


Hearing that AC Milan, Inter, Galatasaray, and 2 English teams will be the others involved.


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> Fluminense president looking to purchase 2nd or 3rd division club in the US and bring Fluminense brand.
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/ricardo...ll-club-we-will-buy-a-soccer-team-in-the-usa/


No, no, no, no, no!!!! Not only has US soccer suffered from all the rebranding teams have done, the last thing we need is to harbor more farm clubs from other nations. I don't give a s*** if it's my beloved Arsenal, I don't want to see us getting exploited like this. Take your colonizing elsewhere, thank you very much.


----------



## Scba

KLynch said:


> They play in the USL Premier Development league, not sure much about it, but the Baltimore Bohemians recently moved into the city to play at Ridely Athletic Complex which is the great new stadium for Loyola University Lacrosse and Soccer. The stadium has stunning views of the city from the stands. The team is owned by the son of the Orioles owners, so I guess we'll see if they have aspirations to make the club much bigger in the future.


Big step up from where they were last year, which was basically a rec field.


----------



## slipperydog

carnifex2005 said:


> *U.S. will host new International Champions Cup this summer*



The preseason tournament will feature eight teams, seven from Europe, in a knockout-style format from July 27 through Aug. 4. 

Guinness will sponsor the event, particularly focusing on its new Guinness Black Lager at matches. 

"Guinness & Co. is a well-known supporter and champion for sports around the world and we are very excited to be involved with such a groundbreaking international soccer event here in the United States," said Doug Campbell, GUINNESS Brand Director. 

The eight teams will play the first round of matches in Indianapolis, San Francisco, Phoenix and a to-be-determined European venue. The second round will take place in Los Angeles and New York. 

All eight teams will convene in Miami's Sun Life Stadium on Aug. 6 and 7 for a pair of double-headers. These include the seventh-place, fifth-place and third-place playoff games, as well as the final. Each team will play three games overall. 

"When [Stillitano] mentioned this new format of the tournament with the two conferences, eight teams, four finals, immediately my coach and my chairman appreciated this idea," Inter managing director Marco Fassone told Goal.com. "'Yes, of course we will come,' and we are here."

"They will be tough games, important games," Fassone said. "When we are back in Europe, I think that we will be ready to play eventual preliminary matches in either the Champions League or Europa League."


----------



## slipperydog

SF, Phoenix, Indy, and Europe get one game, LA and NY get two games, and Miami gets four.

Holy mother. If you are in Miami, eight superstar teams will be in your city at once.


----------



## carnifex2005

I'm curious why Europe would get one game. This is purely an attempt to get US dollars, so why throw Europe a bone?


----------



## krudmonk

It's 2013 and people still go nuts for these exhibition moneygrabs. The game at AT&T Park (assuming they don't mean Candlestick) should look really professional. This is superduper bigtime really.....


----------



## carnifex2005

*Orlando mayor admits land purchases are for new soccer stadium*

Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer talked with Channel 9, telling Greg Warmoth the exact location for the proposed $110 million Major League Soccer stadium.

Dyer told Channel 9 where the stadium would be built, how it will be paid for and why he signed off on a multi-million dollar land purchase.


----------



## GunnerJacket

carnifex2005 said:


> I'm curious why Europe would get one game. This is purely an attempt to get US dollars, so why throw Europe a bone?


Save on travel costs by having two European teams meet up in their own back yard. Probably was a requirement or incentive in order to land some of these brands. 


krudmonk said:


> It's 2013 and people still go nuts for these exhibition moneygrabs. The game at AT&T Park (assuming they don't mean Candlestick) should look really professional. This is superduper bigtime really.....


Did you really just use the term "superduper?" :uh: 


carnifex2005 said:


> *Orlando mayor admits land purchases are for new soccer stadium*


I'm still not getting it. Orlando just does not feel like the ideal next market, IMO. Maybe I'm jaded from previous visits or am missing something, but I don't see those folks rallying around this idea a la Kansas City, Houston, Philly... Not yet, anyway.

But, maybe they think they can use this as a platform to move up the "National Respect" ladder. Maybe they see Columbus and think this is a niche they can fill that will strengthen their community's identity as something more than Disney World.

If they're this serious, though, I'd question this approach so soon after approving renovations to the Citrus Bowl. Could they not incorporate something into the makeover of that facility that would create an MLS setting comparable to CenturyLink in Seattle? As a taxpayer I'd be pressing them to explore that option.


----------



## carnifex2005

GunnerJacket said:


> If they're this serious, though, I'd question this approach so soon after approving renovations to the Citrus Bowl. Could they not incorporate something into the makeover of that facility that would create an MLS setting comparable to CenturyLink in Seattle? As a taxpayer I'd be pressing them to explore that option.


Garber said that is a non-starter. It has to be a purpose built facility or they are not getting a team. MLS is only letting Orlando in because they probably feel if they get one team in the south east, more investors will follow if Orlando City is successful. The southeast is a big hole in MLS national footprint.


----------



## ielag

carnifex2005 said:


> Garber said that is a non-starter. It has to be a purpose built facility or they are not getting a team. MLS is only letting Orlando in because they probably feel if they get one team in the south east, more investors will follow if Orlando City is successful. The southeast is a big hole in MLS national footprint.


And the fact Orlando's attendance is impressive for USLPro despite playing in that oversized dump of the Citrus Bowl is the other factor.

What you said is similar to the Canadian footprint. Without Toronto, don't think we'd ever have seen Vancouver or Montreal in MLS. Especially Montreal, who laughed at the expansion fee just a couple years prior to joining and ended up paying way more to join MLS last year.

There's quite a few similarities between Orlando and Portland. About the same market size, just one other pro team in the market (both NBA and both supported well in the cities), downtown stadiums, have built a grassroots following in the lower divisions. 

Now I don't think they'll have the 15,000 or so season tix (plus waiting list) and the atmosphere the Timbers have, but I think success similar to the Union could be expected out of Orlando.


----------



## ObiUbamba

Tampa Rowdies deserves a team more. We have more history, more loyal fans, and a better market on the gulfcoast of Florida. If only we had more money and better owners?


----------



## GunnerJacket

ielag said:


> There's quite a few similarities between Orlando and Portland. About the same market size, just one other pro team in the market (both NBA and both supported well in the cities), downtown stadiums, *have built a grassroots following in the lower divisions*.


This last one should be taken as offensive to Timbers fans. Portland has a history with footie in the states long enough to be called Soccer City, USA. Orlando has the market metrics but historically is an unknown in the US soccer scene. 

For that exact reason I'd be surprised if MLS jumps on this quickly. Not saying they won't, but it's certainly not a given.



carnifex2005 said:


> MLS is only letting Orlando in because they probably feel if they get one team in the south east, more investors will follow if Orlando City is successful. The southeast is a big hole in MLS national footprint.


But the southeast isn't a homogenous market, and unlike the Canadian comparisons there isn't the built in pedigree or, more importantly, the rivalries to make this tick. Fans in DC, C-bus and Denver won't flock to the gates because Orlando is rolling into town, and folks in Charlotte, Miami and Atlanta won't be bigger MLS supporters because of this move. ie: This isn't moving the TV dials.

If MLS is serious about the southeast they should do 2-4 teams at the same time, and be sure at least two of them offer a rivalry (Tampa-Orlando?) to augment local appeal. Otherwise the net return is going to be marginal at best.


----------



## Archbishop

slipperydog said:


> The preseason tournament will feature eight teams, seven from Europe, in a knockout-style format from July 27 through Aug. 4.
> 
> Guinness will sponsor the event, particularly focusing on its new Guinness Black Lager at matches.
> 
> "Guinness & Co. is a well-known supporter and champion for sports around the world and we are very excited to be involved with such a groundbreaking international soccer event here in the United States," said Doug Campbell, GUINNESS Brand Director.
> 
> The eight teams will play the first round of matches in Indianapolis, San Francisco, Phoenix and a to-be-determined European venue. The second round will take place in Los Angeles and New York.
> 
> All eight teams will convene in Miami's Sun Life Stadium on Aug. 6 and 7 for a pair of double-headers. These include the seventh-place, fifth-place and third-place playoff games, as well as the final. Each team will play three games overall.
> 
> "When [Stillitano] mentioned this new format of the tournament with the two conferences, eight teams, four finals, immediately my coach and my chairman appreciated this idea," Inter managing director Marco Fassone told Goal.com. "'Yes, of course we will come,' and we are here."
> 
> "They will be tough games, important games," Fassone said. "When we are back in Europe, I think that we will be ready to play eventual preliminary matches in either the Champions League or Europa League."


First soccer match at Lucas Oil Stadium. Took them long enough. Hopefully Indy Pro Soccer is able to get their name out there at it. They're already at 3,000+ season tickets and there is still a year to go and without much advertising aside from social media.

I think Orlando would be a good market. College football will be the only in-season competition besides a little bit of Magic basketball. They already have an established fan base in the 3rd tier, and being at the top and with more advertising they should be a solid market. Breaking into the Southeast would just be a huge plus for the league.


----------



## ielag

GunnerJacket said:


> This last one should be taken as offensive to Timbers fans. Portland has a history with footie in the states long enough to be called Soccer City, USA. Orlando has the market metrics but historically is an unknown in the US soccer scene.
> 
> For that exact reason I'd be surprised if MLS jumps on this quickly. Not saying they won't, but it's certainly not a given.
> 
> But the southeast isn't a homogenous market, and unlike the Canadian comparisons there isn't the built in pedigree or, more importantly, the rivalries to make this tick. Fans in DC, C-bus and Denver won't flock to the gates because Orlando is rolling into town, and folks in Charlotte, Miami and Atlanta won't be bigger MLS supporters because of this move. ie: This isn't moving the TV dials.
> 
> If MLS is serious about the southeast they should do 2-4 teams at the same time, and be sure at least two of them offer a rivalry (Tampa-Orlando?) to augment local appeal. Otherwise the net return is going to be marginal at best.



Yes that's exactly what I mean by grassroots for the Timbers. Obviously, Orlando has nowhere near the history, but they've set themselves up quite nicely. Although, Portland could've had an MLS team 10 years ago (MLS would've moved Tampa Bay there) had they renovated then Civic Stadium into a SSS instead of multi-use minor league baseball stadium.

The only road team that draws bigger crowds (than normal attendance) in other markets is the Galaxy. NY (now that Henry's been there a couple years), DC, Seattle, Houston, etc. see no uptick in attendance when they're the road team.

MLS will gladly put more teams in the Southeast as long as there's a stadium plan and ownership group. Right now there's only 2 potential stadium plans (far beyond the rumor stage) for MLS expansion, Queens and Orlando. And other MLS owners due to it's single entity structure wants profitable teams. How is a profitable Orlando club and at least a $50 million expansion fee not in their best interests?

Orlando drew 9,140 people for their game tonight.


----------



## hngcm

Cjones2451 said:


> Well......it was close. Crowds for Chivas weren't this bad last year. Do the fans really dislike the ownership and management direction that much...?????


http://mlsattendance.blogspot.com/

Averaging less than 8k a game, wow!

There's a great city they could move to just 100 miles to the South...


----------



## opusdei

Any news about the new Cosmos stadium?


----------



## slipperydog

Not sure if this has been posted before, but Ottawa Fury will be playing at the refurbished Lansdowne Park.


































































*Also, in other NASL news, Indianpolis will announcing name and colors on Thursday.*


----------



## GunnerJacket

opusdei said:


> Any news about the new Cosmos stadium?


Nothing has changed. The team is still investigating funding options (ie: trolling for investers) while casually speaking with locals and the govt. to secure passive support. Meanwhile I'm sure they're wooing MLS in the hopes of selling the brand for a profit.


slipperydog said:


> Not sure if this has been posted before, but Ottawa Fury will be playing at the refurbished Lansdowne Park.


They've mentioned in passing the hope of someday joining their MLS cousins in the top flight, premised on the potential that this stadium gives them. What is it, 25k? 


> Also, in other NASL news, Indianpolis will announcing name and colors on Thursday.


Please, dear lord, no Euro-posing or Fluminese USA, etc.


----------



## Cjones2451

It will be 24K. I know the Ottawa Senators owner was pushing MLS and a stadium project different from this. I think the owners of the NASL team and the CFL team are happy to get the NASL Ottawa Fury up and running and then see if there is sufficient interest to push for the MLS


They've mentioned in passing the hope of someday joining their MLS cousins in the top flight, premised on the potential that this stadium gives them. What is it, 25k?


----------



## opusdei

New York Cosmos is the most classic american football team. I hope that they come up to the First Division soon.


----------



## SVB28

> This was discussed in this forum at naseum..It just won't work in the US. It's not part of our sports culture.
> 
> The owners of the clubs and the fans would never stand for it.


I think eventually, down the line in say 20 years or more, assuming the game keeps growing like it has in the last couple years, there will be promotion/relegation in the US. Honestly, if we want what is best for the development of the US national teams and want to become a world power I think we will need to have pro/rel. I think it should just be within the top 3 divisions though and there is mostly 1 team per city (except NY, LA, etc.) There are too many regions right now without MLS teams and so the kids in those areas aren't developing to their full potential most likely, but if each of the top 3 division teams are attempting to develop their players they will want to have good academies

Just imo, I definitely don't want pro/rel now, but I think down the road it will be necessary and I think the mindset of the MLS owners will change and will need to change if they want the best for the national team.


----------



## carnifex2005

SVB28 said:


> I think eventually, down the line in say 20 years or more, assuming the game keeps growing like it has in the last couple years, there will be promotion/relegation in the US. Honestly, if we want what is best for the development of the US national teams and want to become a world power I think we will need to have pro/rel. I think it should just be within the top 3 divisions though and there is mostly 1 team per city (except NY, LA, etc.) There are too many regions right now without MLS teams and so the kids in those areas aren't developing to their full potential most likely, but if each of the top 3 division teams are attempting to develop their players they will want to have good academies
> 
> Just imo, I definitely don't want pro/rel now, but I think down the road it will be necessary and I think the mindset of the MLS owners will change and will need to change if they want the best for the national team.


There will NEVER be pro/rel in the US. The MLS owners would never agree to it and the USSF don't have the power to change that since it is pretty much MLS run anyways. There is more of a chance of the big European teams forming a super league with no pro/rel than there is of the US going to it. Besides Pro/Rel doesn't matter for US being a soccer power. What matters is that players can move up and down the pyramid which they do now.


----------



## will101

carnifex2005 said:


> There will NEVER be pro/rel in the US. The MLS owners would never agree to it and the USSF don't have the power to change that since it is pretty much MLS run anyways. There is more of a chance of the big European teams forming a super league with no pro/rel than there is of the US going to it. Besides Pro/Rel doesn't matter for US being a soccer power. What matters is that players can move up and down the pyramid which they do now.


I agree. It would be financial suicide for US soccer to allow a team from, say, Cheyenne to be promoted at the expense of a team from New York City. There are still a bunch of us who remember the demise of the old NASL, and understand that first and foremost the league has to survive. That means no relegation.


----------



## opusdei

^^ If the United States really wants to be a global power in Football (Soccer) these changes are necessary. Corinthians (actual world champions) was relegated to Second Division in 2008.


----------



## slipperydog

Honestly, every time some foreigner brings up roofs on stadiums or promotion/relegation, this thread gets way off track. Believe me, we've heard all of it before. It's not some new revelation. It's been been rehashed time and time again. It would be nice to stick to actual news. If there is no news about soccer stadiums or new teams, it's okay for the thread to be quiet. We don't need to engage every person that thinks that there is a one-size-fits-all model for football.


----------



## carnifex2005

opusdei said:


> ^^ If the United States really wants to be a global power in Football (Soccer) these changes are necessary. Corinthians (actual world champions) was relegated to Second Division in 2008.


Give one reason why? As the franchise system has proved in other sports North American sports, it doesn't matter if teams move up and down, it matters if PLAYERS move up and down the soccer pyramid. All the US needs is the soccer pyramid to be stronger, and pro/rel doesn't do that.


----------



## opusdei

Americans are not accustomed to this sort of thing, but sometimes, the battle to avoid relegation is more exciting than the title one. This encourages competition and public interest. Another important fact is that players and fans of smaller teams are more motivated with the possibilty to play in the major league.

The second and third division also offers the possibility of revealing a large number of talented players, which eventually will go to bigger clubs, and maybe, the national team.


----------



## carnifex2005

The battle to avoid relegation is nice but you know what is even nicer to NA fans? The battle to get into the playoffs. There is your approximation to relegation battle excitement. Also, players that are good at the lower division level will eventually get discovered and promoted to the first division team. You don't need to relegate or promote an entire team to get that movement.


----------



## Rev Stickleback

carnifex2005 said:


> The battle to avoid relegation is nice but you know what is even nicer to NA fans? The battle to get into the playoffs. There is your approximation to relegation battle excitement. Also, players that are good at the lower division level will eventually get discovered and promoted to the first division team. You don't need to relegate or promote an entire team to get that movement.


We have play-offs here too, and there isn't the same intensity to securing a play-off spot as there is for survival/promotion. 

A play-off spot is after all a place for a chance to compete in another competition, and for the teams scraping in, it's often a small chance too.


Promotion and relegation would be entirely unworkable in the USA. It gets discussed to death on bigsoccer.com.

There's no way in the world the owners, who've paid fortunes to be in MLS would agree to it.

It was brought in around the world to organise a landscape where there were more viable top division clubs than top division places. That isn't true in the USA.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Rev Stickleback said:


> Promotion and relegation would be entirely unworkable in the USA. It gets discussed to death on bigsoccer.com.
> 
> There's no way in the world the owners, who've paid fortunes to be in MLS would agree to it.
> 
> It was brought in around the world to organise a landscape where there were more viable top division clubs than top division places. That isn't true in the USA.


That's the scoop in a nutshell. There's nary a US fan who'd be whole-heartily against pro/rel, but the business model established here, which is among the most profitable going, is not interested at all.


----------



## JJG

Stadiums.... stick to them.


----------



## slipperydog

Owners of English Premier League powerhouse Manchester City are now once again in the lead to take hold of MLS' 20th franchise in New York City, and an announcement could come in next 4-6 weeks.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/...LS-expansion-team-but-theres-no-deal-yet.html


----------



## opusdei

What do you think of the MLS champions earn a spot in the Libertadores? Mexican teams participate in the Libertadores Cup since 1998.

Kick Off: Report says CONMEBOL pursuing MLS teams for Copa Libertadores: http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...conmebol-pursuing-mls-teams-copa-libertadores


----------



## slipperydog

*ARTICLE:* http://www.ibj.com/new-pro-soccer-team-to-be-called-indy-eleven/PARAMS/article/40987


----------



## GunnerJacket

*crickets*


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> Owners of English Premier League powerhouse Manchester City are now once again in the lead to take hold of MLS' 20th franchise in New York City, and an announcement could come in next 4-6 weeks.
> 
> http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/...LS-expansion-team-but-theres-no-deal-yet.html


*sigh* Not this crap again. I'm tired of teams/clubs simply being used as commodities or personal showcases. I say owners should be restricted to one club, regardless of country, so they can at least be fully vested in that club.


----------



## carnifex2005

Like the crest and name. Nice idea.


----------



## JJG

slipperydog said:


> *ARTICLE:* http://www.ibj.com/new-pro-soccer-team-to-be-called-indy-eleven/PARAMS/article/40987


Was expecting "Racing Indy", but that works.


----------



## carnifex2005

JJG said:


> Was expecting "Racing Indy", but that works.


Tony George of the Indy Racing League said no to using that name (not that I blame him but it was easily the best one for Indy).


----------



## slipperydog

It would be sweet if they went with red on red checkered kits. Add some blue accents, and that would be a quality look.


----------



## bd popeye

Thanks for the info guys...somethings are just in a fog....


----------



## IllumL8ker

GunnerJacket said:


> So MLB gets $711M in national media deals right now and that figure will surpass $15B next season. That's without figuring the local contracts.


http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20130329/NEWS/130329823/mlbs-tv-contracts-fuel-hefty-player-contracts-for-tigers
...
_That means the team will receive about $110 million collectively from its local cable deal with *Fox Sports Detroit*and the shared national broadcast contracts and other collective revenues._
...
_The combined annual rights fees will increase to $1.5 billion annually from the current $711 million. Baseball will collect $12.1 billion over the life of the deals, up from the current $5.6 billion._
...

The figures *do* include local and other tv contracts, according to the article, AND it's 12.1 billion over the lives of the contracts not per year and the whole MLB making 1.5 billion per year in *ALL TV contracts*... that's still pretty good...


----------



## GunnerJacket

Re-reaed the article and you'll see the difference in reference points for those sentences. Yes, the article highlights the local deals for the Detroit Tigers and yes the original Yahoo article includes local deals in their math, but the figures in my sentence ($711M for 2013 and $1.5B for 2014) are the national contracts distributed across all teams. Local contracts are in addition to those funds.

_Under the new deal, TBS will pay an estimated $325 million annually, *up from its current yearly $148.6 million rights fee.* That's a total of $2.6 billion for the contract.

Fox will up its average annual rights fee to $495 million, The New York Times reported, for a total of $3.9 billion over eight years. *The current contract has the News Corp.-owned network paying $306 million*.

Baseball inked an eight-year renewal with ESPN in August *that more than doubled the old deal ($306 million)* to $700 million. The contract, worth $5.6 billion, also runs through 2021._

So current national media deals are roughly 148+306+306=$760M for an annual average to MLB. Since some of it covers league operating costs, umpires, etc, only about $711M is distributed back to the teams.


----------



## IllumL8ker

GunnerJacket said:


> Re-reaed the article and you'll see the difference in reference points for those sentences. Yes, the article highlights the local deals for the Detroit Tigers and yes the original Yahoo article includes local deals in their math, but the figures in my sentence ($711M for 2013and $1.5B for 2014) are the national contracts distributed across all teams. Local contracts are in addition to those funds.


No. You re-read the article...

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/articl...tracts-fuel-hefty-player-contracts-for-tigers



> That means the team will receive about $110 million collectively from its local cable deal with *Fox Sports Detroit*and the shared national broadcast contracts and other collective revenues.


And



> Teams now each get about $50 million in shared revenue from the broadcast rights deals, and that could increase next year to about $75 million.
> 
> The Tigers also get about $50 million a year from a 10-year contract extension signed with Fox Sports Detroit in March 2008.


They are just reiterating the $110 million: 

Teams now each get about $50 million in shared revenue from the broadcast rights deals, and that could increase next year to about $75 million.

The Tigers also get about $50 million a year from a 10-year contract extension signed with Fox Sports Detroit in March 2008.​
So that's approx $50 million for the national broadcasts rights (national broadcast rights deals) then approx $50 million for the local rights... sounds familiar o that's the $110 million at the top:

That means the team will receive about $110 million collectively from its local cable deal with *Fox Sports Detroit* and the shared national broadcast contracts and other collective revenues.​
You are saying "in addition" making it sound like there is a bigger number they aint telling you when they already included all other broadcast dollars in the figures 12.1 billion and 1.5 billion (local, national, and international)..


----------



## GunnerJacket

Good grief. Obviously our forms of reading comprehension differ so I'm not dragging this out any longer. Cheers.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

IllumL8ker said:


> http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20130329/NEWS/130329823/mlbs-tv-contracts-fuel-hefty-player-contracts-for-tigers
> ...
> _That means the team will receive about $110 million collectively from its local cable deal with *Fox Sports Detroit*and the shared national broadcast contracts and other collective revenues._
> ...
> _The combined annual rights fees will increase to $1.5 billion annually from the current $711 million. Baseball will collect $12.1 billion over the life of the deals, up from the current $5.6 billion._
> ...
> 
> The figures *do* include local and other tv contracts, according to the article, AND it's 12.1 billion over the lives of the contracts not per year and the whole MLB making 1.5 billion per year in *ALL TV contracts*... that's still pretty good...


that 7 BILLION dollar local tv deal the Dodgers signed is really gonna help lol


----------



## slipperydog

FC Dallas close to stadium naming rights deal.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...g-new-sponsor-take-over-stadium-naming-rights


----------



## JJG

slipperydog said:


> FC Dallas close to stadium naming rights deal.
> 
> http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...g-new-sponsor-take-over-stadium-naming-rights


... meh.


----------



## Guest

slipperydog said:


> FC Dallas close to stadium naming rights deal.
> 
> http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...g-new-sponsor-take-over-stadium-naming-rights


Great news. :cheers:


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## Guest

Omaha South wins High School State Championship against Creighton in front of 8,200 fans in what looks to be a great stadium for soccer.


----------



## GunnerJacket

^^ Wow, that's neat to see. Really appreciated how the player and coach spoke in the interviews, as well, showing a strong sense of community pride. Good for them.


----------



## matthemod

Now that Beckham has retired does that the mean the clause he had with the MLS about becoming the owner of an expansion team has become active? Not sure how it works, will he have to basically create an entirely new team or rather take ownership of one of the existing MLS expansion team hopefuls?


----------



## slipperydog

There's no real restrictions other than the fact that the team cannot be located in New York.


----------



## Welkin

slipperydog said:


>


Great stadium and all for only $47 million. Just goes to show that you don't have to spend a fortune to get a great atmosphere.


----------



## KLynch

GunnerJacket said:


> You tease! :tongue2: Don't sell us on this comment only to fail to provide any pictures of said view!!


Sorry for the delay, here's some video of the views. Over 18 miles of clarity. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0rsFMdN2wk&feature=youtu.be


----------



## carnifex2005

It's official. New York City Football Club will be playing in 2015. The expansion franchise will be owned by the owners of Manchester City and the New York Yankees.

http://www.nycfc.com/

Far too much Manchester City brand extension for my liking. I'm getting a horrible Chivas USA 2 vibe from this exercise.


----------



## Topher51

carnifex2005 said:


> It's official. New York City Football Club will be playing in 2015. The expansion franchise will be owned by the owners of Manchester City and the New York Yankees.
> 
> http://www.nycfc.com/
> 
> Far too much Manchester City brand extension for my liking. I'm getting a horrible Chivas USA 2 vibe from this exercise.


Since Man City is my team in the EPL, the more brand extension the better! Kidding aside, I thought that "City" would have been a great name for the new club regardless of the ownership. With many of the MLS teams rebranding with more Euro sounding names lately and that being a very prevolent name over there, it just makes sense. It's not like naming a team with a very foreign word like Chivas. I think the marketing possibilies are endless and the NY fans will love having an option on that side of the Hudson. 

The only problem I have with Man City owning the team is having to pick between NY City and my old standby, DC United.


----------



## Hansadyret

Man City and Yankees. Thats two clubs who will struggle with the MLS salary cap.


----------



## Guest

We havent actually seen a logo yet. If they play in light blue, ok. If they have Etihad as their sponsor, ok. But if they adopt the same crest with New York instead of Man City, then I'll be quite upset! 

The league has to have learnt from Chivas debacle surely.


----------



## Lumbergo

so who's gonna be next? Orlando?


----------



## GunnerJacket

carnifex2005 said:


> It's official. New York City Football Club will be playing in 2015. The expansion franchise will be owned by the owners of Manchester City and the New York Yankees.


I can :wallbash: all I want but it's been coming for some time now. MLS wanted the money.


> Far too much Manchester City brand extension for my liking. I'm getting a horrible Chivas USA 2 vibe from this exercise.


My fear from day 1. Essentially neither NYC franchise will be an actual soccer club but rather a gateway for a larger corporate entity to shill it's brand in the US and New York City. F*** you MLS. I pray neither franchise wins a bloody trophy.


Topher51 said:


> Kidding aside, I thought that "City" would have been a great name for the new club regardless of the ownership.


Agree, I think "City" will work fine.


5portsF4n said:


> We havent actually seen a logo yet. If they play in light blue, ok. If they have Etihad as their sponsor, ok. But if they adopt the same crest with New York instead of Man City, then I'll be quite upset!


The similarities will be enough to try and lure fans to support both clubs, and obviously Manchester Dhabi will be playing in NY regularly, will use any NYFC academies to steal/develop prime talent, and their gear will be peddled everywhere as if they're God's own franchise. I'm so pissed it's disgusting. 


> The league has to have learnt from Chivas debacle surely.


The Chivas idea failed because 1) they don't have the disposable income Abu Dhabi has, 2) they created a cultural divide with their assumption of being MLS' "Latino club," and 3) NYCFC will start off with their own home and in a healthier MLS. The league offices are obivously more inclined to accept the 100's of millions that will be invested in the game than to care about the net impact of cementing MLS' perception as a 2nd class league.

F***!


----------



## GunnerJacket

Lumbergo said:


> so who's gonna be next? Orlando?


No one for a while now, I would guess. MLS will not only want to rest on an even number of teams for some time but they've said they want to work with the lower leagues to develop stability and deeper fanbases.


----------



## matthemod

I just feel a bit sorry for those original NASL Cosmos fans, this all but assures the new Cosmos won't ever step up to the MLS.


----------



## carnifex2005

GunnerJacket said:


> No one for a while now, I would guess. MLS will not only want to rest on an even number of teams for some time but they've said they want to work with the lower leagues to develop stability and deeper fanbases.


Apparently Orlando City have change their funding plan to not need any municipal money. If so, I can see them getting in with Atlanta in 2016.


----------



## MontrealYul

No way MLS will go to Atlanta. after NYFC, I think MLS will take it easy and slow down on expansion. They will probably add 2 more teams eventually by 2020. I believe they would be in Orlando and St Louis. 

Now the MLS has to focus on getting a soccer specific stadium for DC, New England and find a solution for Chivas.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Note to mods: Provided we stay above board please allow this temporary diversion. It does tie to stadiums in the US/Canada and otherwise for now is something hot to discuss. Thanks!

- - - - 



MontrealYul said:


> No way MLS will go to Atlanta. after NYFC, I think MLS will take it easy and slow down on expansion. They will probably add 2 more teams eventually by 2020. I believe they would be in Orlando and St Louis.
> 
> Now the MLS has to focus on getting a soccer specific stadium for DC, New England and find a solution for Chivas.


Here's one man's guess as to what MLS is thinking/hoping:

- NYCFC not only fosters a rivalry but creates another full on academy and other things to infuse soccer culture, such that even if they don't draw Seattle-like crowds they endow the potential to land the next Beckham or Henry. 

- They'll now focus on Chivas, looking to replicate the same formula via a new home and possibly a slight rebranding, _but within LA_. Maybe it's simply becoming Chivas LA (instead of Chivas USA), maybe it's something more drastic, but they'll look to cement the LA connection for both community relations and broadcast appeal.

- This in turn enthuses broadcast partners, who like seeing more opportunities for showing an LA or NY team, as well as the deeper pockets for possible high profile players, thus driving up the value of the TV deals.

- Unless they go single table MLS would (most likely) move KC out west, so future expansions will take the table format into consideration. A Miami-Orlando pairing seems logical and possible, while adding St. Louis and one of PHX or SD would broaden the league's reach within the Central and Pacific time zones. May not mean expansion by foursomes but they'll likely take the formula applied to NYC (preemptively determine stadium options before owners) to weigh the best options.


----------



## slipperydog

GunnerJacket said:


> I can :wallbash: all I want but it's been coming for some time now. MLS wanted the money.
> My fear from day 1. Essentially neither NYC franchise will be an actual soccer club but rather a gateway for a larger corporate entity to shill it's brand in the US and New York City. F*** you MLS. I pray neither franchise wins a bloody trophy.
> Agree, I think "City" will work fine.
> The similarities will be enough to try and lure fans to support both clubs, and obviously Manchester Dhabi will be playing in NY regularly, will use any NYFC academies to steal/develop prime talent, and their gear will be peddled everywhere as if they're God's own franchise. I'm so pissed it's disgusting.
> The Chivas idea failed because 1) they don't have the disposable income Abu Dhabi has, 2) they created a cultural divide with their assumption of being MLS' "Latino club," and 3) NYCFC will start off with their own home and in a healthier MLS. The league offices are obivously more inclined to accept the 100's of millions that will be invested in the game than to care about the net impact of cementing MLS' perception as a 2nd class league.
> 
> F***!


I don't see anything thus far to indicate that MCFC sees this is an opportunity to shill its brand. Red Bulls yes. MCFC, no. You are simply projecting at this point.

It's unlikely that MCFC will be using NYCFC to steal talent, as the vast majority of academy players from the NY area won't be able to get a work permit.

The net impact of another club in NY is that the perception of MLS as a second class league will increase? Really? Enough with the hyperbole. The MLS is a second class league, and would be, with or without NYCFC.


----------



## GunnerJacket

From this ESPNFC article:

_Manchester City will be the new club's majority owners. Their position has been taken up by the club itself, not Abu Dhabi owner Sheik Mansour as had been widely reported. It stands as a powerful indicator that in the ongoing football arms race, the thirst for unconventional revenue streams and creative brand exposure will compel major teams to execute ever bolder global strategies.

The deal began when Manchester City's CEO Ferran Soriano was back at Barcelona eight years ago. Soriano is now City's CEO and explained the synergies. "We are here to develop a fantastic football product which will use our strength, knowledge and extended scouting network all over the world." He added: "Obviously there is the commercial opportunity for New York City FC and Manchester City and we have great players in our academies... it is only natural some of these players might be playing in New York."_



slipperydog said:


> It's unlikely that MCFC will be using NYCFC to steal talent, as the vast majority of academy players from the NY area won't be able to get a work permit.


I don't care about the loss of talent. That will be neglible at best. What I dislike is the exploitation of NY and NYCFC to pimp MCFC. Or any other club, for that matter.



> The MLS is a second class league, and would be, with or without NYCFC.


I've no delusions about what MLS and will be in my lifetime. What I dislike is that the fortunes of MLS are now more and more tied to the cares and whims of teams from other leagues. I'd much rather MLS grown free from that influence.


----------



## will101

GunnerJacket said:


> I've no delusions about what MLS and will be in my lifetime. What I dislike is that the fortunes of MLS are now more and more tied to the cares and whims of teams from other leagues. I'd much rather MLS grown free from that influence.


MLB and NFL are still subject to each other's cares and whims, despite decades of effort, and being the two wealthiest leagues in the world. MLS is at best the #6 league in the US, and way down in the world soccer pecking order. They are going to be stuck with table scraps for quite a while.


----------



## GunnerJacket

By that I meant other soccer leagues. 

Bottom line, as someone born in NY I hate that the two soccer teams from NYC aren't left to their own devices or identities but instead are a walking energy-drink commercial and an extension of a club from another country.


----------



## slipperydog

GunnerJacket said:


> I've no delusions about what MLS and will be in my lifetime. What I dislike is that the fortunes of MLS are now more and more tied to the cares and whims of teams from other leagues. I'd much rather MLS grown free from that influence.





GunnerJacket said:


> Bottom line, as someone born in NY I hate that the two soccer teams from NYC aren't left to their own devices or identities but instead are a walking energy-drink commercial and an extension of a club from another country.


Your contempt is misplaced. That's not the fault of MLS. That's the fault of your city for not coming up with a better alternative. It's almost as if you're trying to imply that the MLS is intentionally trying to pimp the EPL. Which is asinine. One of your hundreds of hedge funds could have invested the paltry $100 million to start a soccer club, but chances are that they are clueless about the sport and its potential.

To me, this is the best of both worlds. You get the millions of dollars of foreign investment from a club filled with world superstars, but you get the operating and marketing capabilities of a local institution like the Yankees. No doubt the club will be highly visible around Yankee Stadium and in promotional materials, which will reach attendees from Manhattan, Brooklyn, White Plains, Staten Island, and Connecticut.


----------



## will101

GunnerJacket said:


> By that I meant other soccer leagues.
> 
> Bottom line, as someone born in NY I hate that the two soccer teams from NYC aren't left to their own devices or identities but instead are a walking energy-drink commercial and an extension of a club from another country.


An energy drink from another country, too. I can see your point.


----------



## GunnerJacket

@ slippery: I don't disagree that MLS had limited options or that the deal will prove lucrative to them, and I'm not faulting anybody for doing what they're perfectly allowed to do. My discontent is that MLS was so narrowly focused on making this vision work and work soon that they had to accept the offer on the table rather than grow something organically from the NYC area. If that's just me and my friends then so be it.

Now we await to see if they get the stadium deal done.



will101 said:


> An energy drink from another country, too. I can see your point.


I could care less about that. The actual Red Bull product isn't directly competing with the club for fanhood.


----------



## slipperydog

GunnerJacket said:


> @ slippery: I don't disagree that MLS had limited options or that the deal will prove lucrative to them, and I'm not faulting anybody for doing what they're perfectly allowed to do. My discontent is that MLS was so narrowly focused on making this vision work and work soon that they had to accept the offer on the table rather than grow something organically from the NYC area. If that's just me and my friends then so be it.


Tick tock, tick tock. Getting NY2 into MLS built on a similar model to the Galaxy (big market, big stars) is necessary for the league. Garber wants to accelerate the development of the league, especially with television markets/ratings. From a television, marketing, and credibility standpoint, having an accessible team in the city is a good thing. Can't wait around forever for you people to come up with the ideal solution, although I doubt how "organic" a Wilpon or Guggenheim-fronted ownership would be anyway. You got the Steinbrenners. That's good enough for me.


----------



## willygtoc

carnifex2005 said:


> It's official. New York City Football Club will be playing in 2015. The expansion franchise will be owned by the owners of Manchester City and the New York Yankees.
> 
> http://www.nycfc.com/
> 
> Far too much Manchester City brand extension for my liking. I'm getting a horrible Chivas USA 2 vibe from this exercise.





5portsF4n said:


> We havent actually seen a logo yet. If they play in light blue, ok. If they have Etihad as their sponsor, ok. But if they adopt the same crest with New York instead of Man City, then I'll be quite upset!
> 
> The league has to have learnt from Chivas debacle surely.



Here's the thing, though: They don't really have a "look" or an "identity" yet. There's no officially announced color scheme, no club logo, no jersey design. So let's all pretend we're the newest creatives at Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce, and give this new club an identity. How about a nickname? Surely something better than the Blues.


Ferran Soriano, CEO of Manchester City had this to say: "I think that first to say is that New York City is going to have its own personality and it's going to be a team of its own. Obviously, as I said, using the resources of Manchester City and the senior team. But we haven't decided yet. But it might well be that the team is going to play in sky blue."


http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...eferral&utm_content=NYCFC&utm_campaign=Unpaid


----------



## Dexter Morgan

So where is this stadium going to be? I assume they play their first season or first few seasons in Yankee Stadium. Will the Yankees really let this thing be built in the shadows of Citi Field?


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

GunnerJacket said:


> Note to mods: Provided we stay above board please allow this temporary diversion. It does tie to stadiums in the US/Canada and otherwise for now is something hot to discuss. Thanks!
> 
> - - - -
> 
> Here's one man's guess as to what MLS is thinking/hoping:
> 
> - NYCFC not only fosters a rivalry but creates another full on academy and other things to infuse soccer culture, such that even if they don't draw Seattle-like crowds they endow the potential to land the next Beckham or Henry.
> 
> - They'll now focus on Chivas, looking to replicate the same formula via a new home and possibly a slight rebranding, _but within LA_. Maybe it's simply becoming Chivas LA (instead of Chivas USA), maybe it's something more drastic, but they'll look to cement the LA connection for both community relations and broadcast appeal.
> 
> - This in turn enthuses broadcast partners, who like seeing more opportunities for showing an LA or NY team, as well as the deeper pockets for possible high profile players, thus driving up the value of the TV deals.
> 
> - Unless they go single table MLS would (most likely) move KC out west, so future expansions will take the table format into consideration. A Miami-Orlando pairing seems logical and possible, while adding St. Louis and one of PHX or SD would broaden the league's reach within the Central and Pacific time zones. May not mean expansion by foursomes but they'll likely take the formula applied to NYC (preemptively determine stadium options before owners) to weigh the best options.


i agree with this. I still think that Chivas will get a new stadium where the sports arena is now (Next to the Colosseum / USC at Exposition park.) the only question is, will the league force the ownership to sell or will they help them out. If they sell, how about Guggenhiem buys them and builds a stadium at Chaves Ravine?


----------



## slipperydog

Ferran Soriano, former FC Barcelona VP and current CEO of Manchester City

"We are enthusiastic believers in the development of soccer in the United States. We believe there is a market out there of passionate soccer fans in the United States and there is the opportunity to offer them good, beautiful football."

"Our approach is to have another club that will not be a subsidiary, that will have its own strategy and objectives, that will share resources and synergies with us so we can deliver what we love to New York which is beautiful football on a permanent basis."

"We do not want to play a friendly game and go. We want to be here permanently and, as much as we can, to become New Yorkers. To be global and local you have to be here and have a club."

"This is not a brand play. It has nothing to do with the brand. It has to do with football. There is no marketing strategy to sell a bad product. You have to be real. These clubs will have different strategies and different players but we will share resources."

"This is not a club to serve young English players or old English players for that matter. It is designed to be competitive, and to win in New York. To do that we will source players -- American players, maybe South American players, maybe European on our scouting database all over the world." 

"The core of what we are trying to do is to create a new football club that is sustainable and successful but it is called New York City and we have another club, Manchester City, so naturally there will be some commercial synergies but this is a second priority. None of it is possible unless we have a good team playing good football so the commercial side has to be secondary."

http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/soccerusa/id/2424?cc=5901


----------



## alexandru.mircea

GunnerJacket said:


> Bottom line, as someone born in NY I hate that the two soccer teams from NYC aren't left to their own devices or identities but instead are a walking energy-drink commercial and an extension of a club from another country.


I have all the sympathy for your position, but isn't it... unrealistic to want the sport to be made up by clubs (in the full sense of the word) which represent communities of a "natural" manner when the sport is in fact set up as a monopolistic business where "clubs" are in fact a business venture like any other, has to pay a huge fee in the first place to have access to the market, and match goers are its clients, from whom the investment must be amortised? 

Same views regarding your previous comment



GunnerJacket said:


> Essentially neither NYC franchise will be an actual soccer club but rather a gateway for a larger corporate entity


None of the MLS are clubs in the "actual soccer club" sense, they're all franchises. Does it matter so much where the capital investors come from?

Right now you sound to me like what in this thread is usually called "eurotrash". 




GunnerJacket said:


> The league offices are obivously more inclined to accept the 100's of millions that will be invested in the game than to care about the net impact of cementing MLS' perception as a 2nd class league.


From a neutral's perspective I can say that the perception now is that things are finally happening in the MLS.


----------



## slipperydog

Fascinating related story is that three LigaMX clubs will be relocated by next season: Jaguares, San Luis, and La Piedad.

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/114/mexico/2013/05/21/3994842/three-teams-to-move-in-liga-mx


----------



## isaidso

BoulderGrad said:


> MLS website put this together: (Top 10 cities for MLS expansion)
> http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...referral&utm_content=News&utm_campaign=Unpaid
> 
> TL;DR
> 1) Orlando
> 2) Minneapolis
> 3) San Antonio
> 4) Miami
> 5) Atlanta
> 6) Saint Louis
> 7) Raleigh
> 8) Sacremento
> 9) Indianapolis
> 10) San Diego
> 
> Honorable Mentions: Detroit, Vegas, Phoenix, *Ottawa,* Tampa


The article was titled: A top 10 of US cities with big dreams. They know that Ottawa is in Canada, right? If they meant to include Canada, Edmonton didn't even get an honourable mention? They really need to promote themselves better if they're that far off MLS' radar. I would have thought they'd easily make their top 5.


----------



## Guest

slipperydog said:


> Fascinating related story is that three LigaMX clubs will be relocated by next season: Jaguares, San Luis, and La Piedad.
> 
> http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/114/mexico/2013/05/21/3994842/three-teams-to-move-in-liga-mx


First thing is when the hell did Goal change their website? It looks MUCH better than that mess they had before. 

As for the story I don't really know much about LigaMX, but I always thought Jaguares was a big club. The others don't ring a bell at all. 

I just had a look and their market is about 500,000. They are moving to Queretaro, a market of 1.9 million. So maybe its not such a bad idea. 

LigaMX should just go the whole hog and get rid of pro/rel. Culture of relocation in a system which has pro/rel just seems sardonic. 



isaidso said:


> Edmonton didn't even get an honourable mention? They really need to promote themselves better if they're that far off MLS' radar. I would have thought they'd easily make their top 5.


Sadly there are plenty of Americans who will tell you we shouldn't have any Canadian teams at all. Though I think the main reason they won't get mentioned on such lists is that Don Garber (Commissioner) has basically more or less said that he feels Canadian expansion is done. They've got to the three major markets and I guess they feel confident with that.


----------



## carnifex2005

isaidso said:


> The article was titled: A top 10 of US cities with big dreams. They know that Ottawa is in Canada, right? If they meant to include Canada, Edmonton didn't even get an honourable mention? They really need to promote themselves better if they're that far off MLS' radar. I would have thought they'd easily make their top 5.


MLS will never go to Canada again. There are larger markets in the US to open up and Edmonton draws flies in NASL (lowest average attendance in that league).


----------



## matthemod

Never is a long time...


----------



## isaidso

5portsF4n said:


> Sadly there are plenty of Americans who will tell you we shouldn't have any Canadian teams at all. Though I think the main reason they won't get mentioned on such lists is that Don Garber (Commissioner) has basically more or less said that he feels Canadian expansion is done. They've got to the three major markets and I guess they feel confident with that.


I know and it's a mistake. Markets should be considered based on their merit. MLS is never going to feel like a proper national league in this country if we're limited to 3 teams from coast to coast. 6 teams should be allocated to Canada: Edmonton, Ottawa, and Calgary should all be brought into the fold.


----------



## isaidso

carnifex2005 said:


> MLS will never go to Canada again. There are larger markets in the US to open up and Edmonton draws flies in NASL (lowest average attendance in that league).


I've said it before and will say it again, Edmonton is one of the best soccer markets in north America. Not only is it the same size as Salt Lake City, but it's wealthier and growing faster. NASL attendance? Most MLS cities wouldn't draw well in that league either. 

An Edmonton MLS team would do better than half the teams currently in MLS. Population size isn't everything, just ask the NHL: Atlanta Thrashers? It's not as if pro sports are new to this city either. The Eskimos lead the CFL in attendance every year and the Oilers sell out every game. 

Edmonton's support for soccer is well documented. They drew 47,000 for a women's soccer game a decade ago and set an attendance record for the 2002 U-19 Women's WC. People in the sport recognize Edmonton's support for this sport, it's a mystery why MLS doesn't.

*Women's U-19 Soccer, Edmonton*








Courtesy of the Edmonton Sun


----------



## Guest

isaidso said:


> I've said it before and will say it again, Edmonton is one of the best soccer markets in north America. Not only is it the same size as Salt Lake City, but it's wealthier and growing faster. NASL attendance? Most MLS cities wouldn't draw well in that league either.
> 
> An Edmonton MLS team would do better than half the teams currently in MLS. Population size isn't everything, just ask the NHL: Atlanta Thrashers?
> 
> Edmonton's support for soccer is well documented. They drew 47,000 for a women's soccer game a decade ago and set an attendance record for the 2002 U-19 Women's WC. People in the sport recognize Edmonton's support for this sport, it's a mystery why MLS doesn't.


Some points:

- A handful of MLS teams were drawing very well in NASL before they made the jump (Portland, Montreal, Whitecaps). 

- Salt Lake is 25% Hispanic/Latino and growing; Edmonton 1.2%. 

- According to Forbes, Salt Lake City is the 5th fastest growing US city. 

- MLS wants to see investors/stadium plans/good support in NASL/USL Pro. None of those things currently exist with Edmonton. 

- While Edmonton may be the size of Salt Lake City, there are another 15 cities in the US bigger than both. 

- Edmonton is not a market that resonates strongly in the US.

- I don't know whether Edmonton has the potential you seem to think it does, but one off crowds aren't a good way to measure it. Miami can draw 60-70,000 for an exhibition game, but it won't convince many people that MLS would work there.

I want to share your enthusiasm, but Oiler town will most likely stay MLS-less for the foreseeable future.


----------



## Guest

Might be fun to go through the fastest growing cities in the US:

_10. Portland, Ore._ _*Portland Timbers*_
MSA: Portland-Vancouver-Hillsboro, Ore.-Wash.
2012 population growth: 1.8%
2013 population growth: 1.8%
Job growth: 1.7%
Unemployment: 7.4%
Gross metro product: 4.1%
Median salary: $60,200

*9. San Antonio* *San Antonio Scorpions* to MLS in the future
MSA: San Antonio-New Braunfels, Texas
2012 population growth: 2.1%
2013 population growth: 2%
Job growth: 2%
Unemployment: 5.6%
Gross metro product: 4.1%
Median salary: $56,900

*8. Phoenix* _*Phoenix FC*_ Chivas USA anyone?
MSA: Phoenix-Mesa-Glendale, Ariz.
2012 population growth: 1%
2013 population growth: 2.7%
Job growth: 2.5%
Unemployment: 6.5%
Gross metro product: 4.1%
Median salary: $62,600

*7. Provo, Utah* *Real Salt Lake* territory
MSA: Provo-Orem, Utah
2012 population growth: 2.5%
2013 population growth: 2.6%
Job growth: 2.4%
Unemployment: 4.6%
Gross metro product: 4%
Median salary: $54,300

*6. Seattle*_*Seattle Sounders*_
MSA: Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, Wash.
2012 population growth: 1.3%
2013 population growth: 1.2%
Job growth: 2.6%
Unemployment: 6.8%
Gross metro product: 5.5%
Median salary: $69,900

*5. Salt Lake City*_*Real Salt Lake*_ territory
MSA: Salt Lake City 
2012 population growth: 1.5%
2013 population growth: 1.5%
Job growth: 2.8%
Unemployment: 4.8%
Gross metro product: 5.3%
Median salary: $60,000

*4. Raleigh, N.C.*_*Carolina RailHawks*_ We all know it would be a success
MSA: Raleigh-Cary, N.C.
2012 population growth: 3.3%
2013 population growth: 3.4%
Job growth: 2.3%
Unemployment: 7.2%
Gross metro product: 4.7%
Median salary: $63,600

*3. Dallas*_*FC Dallas*_ 
MSA: Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, Texas
2012 population growth: 2.1%
2013 population growth: 2.1%
Job growth: 2.1%
Unemployment: 5.7%
Gross metro product: 5.9%
Median salary: $65,100

*2. Houston*_*Houston Dynamo*_
MSA: Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown, Texas
2012 population growth: 2%
2013 population growth: 2%
Job growth: 3.4%
Unemployment: 5.8%
Gross metro product: 6.8%
Median salary: $70,900

*1. Austin, Texas* It's a shame Austin is in Texas!
MSA: Austin-Round Rock-San Marcos, Texas
2012 population growth: 2.8%
2013 population growth: 2.7%
Job growth: 3.1%
Unemployment: 4.9%
Gross metro product: 6.3%
Median salary: $63,200


----------



## isaidso

*Edmonton*

Population Growth: +12.1% between 2006 and 2011 or 2.4%/year
Unemployment: 4.2% (2010)
Median family income: $96,750 (2010)

Median income data is hard to come by in Canada as we tend to measure median *family* income. That said, Edmonton is the 3rd wealthiest city in the country behind Ottawa and Calgary. It's about 30% wealthier than Toronto.

http://www.livingin-canada.com/compare-canadian-cities.html



5portsF4n said:


> Some points:
> 
> - A handful of MLS teams were drawing very well in NASL before they made the jump (Portland, Montreal, Whitecaps).
> 
> - Salt Lake is 25% Hispanic/Latino and growing; Edmonton 1.2%.
> 
> - According to Forbes, Salt Lake City is the 5th fastest growing US city.
> 
> - MLS wants to see investors/stadium plans/good support in NASL/USL Pro. None of those things currently exist with Edmonton.
> 
> - While Edmonton may be the size of Salt Lake City, there are another 15 cities in the US bigger than both.
> 
> - Edmonton is not a market that resonates strongly in the US.
> 
> - I don't know whether Edmonton has the potential you seem to think it does, but one off crowds aren't a good way to measure it. Miami can draw 60-70,000 for an exhibition game, but it won't convince many people that MLS would work there.


- A handful of NASL clubs that made the leap to MLS did draw well in NASL, but lots of cities in MLS drew terribly before MLS. 

- Hispanic population? You realize this is Canada and support for soccer has zero to do with how many hispanics a city has? 

- SLC maybe growing fast, but so is Edmonton.

- Edmonton may not be a market that resonates in the US, but this is supposed to be a Canada-US league. Whether a market resonates with Canadians should matter as well. Columbus, Kansas City, and San Jose don't exactly get Canadians down the stadium either. 

- How is Edmonton's support for soccer based on a one off example? That city has been supporting soccer massively for 3 decades. For the 2015 Women's WC Edmonton was richly rewarded for its long time support for soccer. They were given matches at every stage of the tournament: Round of 16, Quarter-Finals, Semi-Finals, and the 3rd place game. The final went to Vancouver. No other city in Canada got as much as they did.

I'm not surprised that Americans don't know much about Edmonton, but I would have thought soccer people in your country would at least know. Edmonton has been the back bone of Canadian soccer for a very very long time and Commonwealth Stadium has been where most of the big games have gone up until very recently. BMO Field has since changed that.


----------



## Guest

isaidso said:


> ^^ Edmonton grew by 12.1% between 2006 and 2011 so about 2.4%/year.
> 
> - A handful of NASL clubs that made the leap to MLS did draw well in NASL, but lots of cities in MLS drew terribly before MLS.
> 
> - Hispanic population? You realize this is Canada and support for soccer has zero to do with how many hispanics a city has?
> 
> - SLC maybe growing fast, but so is Edmonton.
> 
> - Edmonton may not be a market that resonates in the US, but this is supposed to be a Canada-US league. Whether a market resonates with Canadians should matter as well. Columbus, Kansas City, and San Jose doesn't exactly get Canadians down the stadium either.
> 
> - How is Edmonton's support for soccer based on a one off example? That city has been supporting soccer massively for 3 decades.


- A lot cities in MLS drew terribly before MLS? I'm not really sure what that means. 

- My point was that outside of Salt Lake City, there are something like 15 bigger markets in the US. If we're talking about just population size, Edmonton doesn't come close. 

- Yeah but this is an American first league. You don't seem to remember that most people assumed Canada was going to start its own league. Talk of Canadian expansion in MLS came totally out of the blue, and was very unpopular with some segments of MLS fans. 

- Those decades of support currently result in a thousand or so people attending games. No ambitious investment group and no plans for an SSS = does not make for a very convincing case.


----------



## isaidso

5portsF4n said:


> - A lot cities in MLS drew terribly before MLS? I'm not really sure what that means.


Toronto for one. Toronto soccer teams drew poorly till MLS came along. They're hardly alone in that.



5portsF4n said:


> - My point was that outside of Salt Lake City, there are something like 15 bigger markets in the US. If we're talking about just population size, Edmonton doesn't come close.
> 
> - Yeah but this is an American first league. You don't seem to remember that most people assumed Canada was going to start its own league. Talk of Canadian expansion in MLS came totally out of the blue, and was very unpopular with some segments of MLS fans.


I'm just taken aback by how little people seem to know about the contribution Edmonton has made to the sport for so many years. That said, if this is thought of as a US league I guess I'm out. Why would I devote any money, time, effort towards a league that considers my country an after thought? We went through 30 years of that with the NHL.


----------



## Welkin

isaidso said:


> Toronto for one. Toronto soccer teams drew poorly till MLS came along. They're hardly alone in that.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just taken aback by how little people seem to know about the contribution Edmonton has made to the sport for so many years. That said, if this is thought of as a US league I guess I'm out. Why would I devote any money, time, effort towards a league that considers my country an after thought? We went through 30 years of that with the NHL.


I would be the first to admit that Edmonton is a much better MLS market that say Columbus. However, I think that Edmonton's time has come and passed. MLS franchise fees are going up and up. $100 million for the new team in New York for example. Had Edmonton tried to get a team back when Toronto and SLC paid only $10 million for a team, then the odds would have been better. The next franchise fee will probably be in the $60-75 million range (you pay more for NYC that is why theirs was $100 million) and that is a good chuck of change considering MLS's finances. Also, considering the fight that is going on in Edmonton to get funding for a new hockey arena, I can't see the city ponying up another $100 million for a soccer specific stadium (since Commonwealth does not meet MLS standards). Edmonton is probably a good soccer city. They are just going to have to be content with the NASL, Women's World Cup matches and the occasional soccer friendly.


----------



## Guest

isaidso said:


> Toronto for one. Toronto soccer teams drew poorly till MLS came along. They're hardly alone in that.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just taken aback by how little people seem to know about the contribution Edmonton has made to the sport for so many years. That said, if this is thought of as a US league I guess I'm out. Why would I devote any money, time, effort towards a league that considers my country an after thought? We went through 30 years of that with the NHL.


You could be completely right, but Edmonton are still missing the right kind of ownership group willing to spend well over $200 million to land an expansion franchise (stadium + expansion fee), assuming the city isnt prepared to fund it for them. On top of that MLS execs want to see a strong season ticket base and support at lower levels.


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## mamangvilla

Why do they play one game in Spain?


----------



## Guest

They are using football stadiums for this? Thats a lot of tickets to sell. 5th and 6th place play off at SunLife is slightly odd, particularly as that has to compete with next days final. 

Its almost as if theyre trying to suggest something with Miami being so prominent in the tournament. edit: its organised the by Dolphins owner, problem solved.


----------



## krudmonk

slipperydog said:


> Fascinating related story is that three LigaMX clubs will be relocated by next season: Jaguares, San Luis, and La Piedad.
> 
> http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/114/mexico/2013/05/21/3994842/three-teams-to-move-in-liga-mx


wow,


> Fans celebrated in the streets as the team from a small town in the state of Michoacan won promoted last Saturday. Those same fans were bitter two days later when the club’s owners announced the there will be no first division soccer there next season.


that is fucked.


----------



## MarkJF

slipperydog said:


>


This is a great thread, I've really enjoyed seeing some of the stadiums. It's an eye opener for me, as a UK fan Googling "Edmonton football team" is not something I'd have anticipated doing, I've enjoyed it all. 

This pic caught my eye though, to me, it just looks like another merchandise selling, pre-season, half paced warm up tour, but this time, unnecessarily convoluted, not something that I could be bothered to pay to watch, unless it was nearby and the paint had dried....... 

I'd never heard of it, how will it be perceived and anticipated by USA fans?


----------



## Guest

MarkJF said:


> This is a great thread, I've really enjoyed seeing some of the stadiums. It's an eye opener for me, as a UK fan Googling "Edmonton football team" is not something I'd have anticipated doing, I've enjoyed it all.
> 
> This pic caught my eye though, to me, it just looks like another merchandise selling, pre-season, half paced warm up tour, but this time, unnecessarily convoluted, not something that I could be bothered to pay to watch, unless it was nearby and the paint had dried.......
> 
> I'd never heard of it, how will it be perceived and anticipated by USA fans?


Branding exercises in America have been going strong for a while now. They always do well with sales and interest. I will be surprised if one of those games has less than 40,000 people. 

Anything that increases interest is helpful.


----------



## MarkJF

5portsF4n said:


> Branding exercises in America have been going strong for a while now. They always do well with sales and interest. I will be surprised if one of those games has less than 40,000 people.
> 
> Anything that increases interest is helpful.


40k+ for what are in effect training matches is amazing. I did pay to watch a similar tournament at Wembley a few years ago with Celtic/Barcelona/Tottenham/Al-Ahy, but really it was just an opportunity for my son to see Messi live.


----------



## Lumbergo

wait a minute! Dodger stadium?!

i'm pretty damn sure you can't fit a soccer pitch on that field. a football field will not even fit unless you remove some of the outfield bleachers....


















credit: http://www.baseball-fever.com/member.php?22404-chip

keep in mind that a soccer pitch is wider than an American football field


----------



## Guest

MarkJF said:


> 40k+ for what are in effect training matches is amazing. I did pay to watch a similar tournament at Wembley a few years ago with Celtic/Barcelona/Tottenham/Al-Ahy, but really it was just an opportunity for my son to see Messi live.


You guys get the real thing, so exhibitions arent as high in demand. 

Of course it depends on the teams. Chelsea, Man Utd can pull 60,000 comfortably just about anywhere. Barca, Real, Liverpool are up there. Man Utd arent coming this year, opting for an Asian trip instead, but it hasnt done them any harm selling 80,000 for a game in Sydney Australia. Nothing quite like Manchester United in this world. 

Galaxy Real should be 60,000 minimum in Phoenix, Chelsea Inter should be at pushing 60,000, and the final will be 75,000 odd I would think. I mean big crowds at these exhibitions are so routine it doesnt really raise eyebrows anymore.


----------



## soup or man

MarkJF said:


> This is a great thread, I've really enjoyed seeing some of the stadiums. It's an eye opener for me, as a UK fan Googling "Edmonton football team" is not something I'd have anticipated doing, I've enjoyed it all.
> 
> This pic caught my eye though, to me, it just looks like another merchandise selling, pre-season, half paced warm up tour, but this time, unnecessarily convoluted, not something that I could be bothered to pay to watch, unless it was nearby and the paint had dried.......
> 
> I'd never heard of it, how will it be perceived and anticipated by USA fans?


Anything that increases soccer's (read: MLS) visibility in the US is always a great thing IMO. Though it will be odd to see soccer at Dodger Stadium. Should've had it at the Rose Bowl.


----------



## MarkJF

soup or man said:


> Anything that increases soccer's (read: MLS) visibility in the US is always a great thing IMO.


I agree. What I was getting at though, and with no disrespect intended, was how do USA fans perceive tournaments like these? Like they mean something or as warm up tours?


----------



## ChesterCopperpot

Lumbergo said:


> wait a minute! Dodger stadium?!
> 
> i'm pretty damn sure you can't fit a soccer pitch on that field. a football field will not even fit unless you remove some of the outfield bleachers....
> 
> 
> credit: http://www.baseball-fever.com/member.php?22404-chip
> 
> keep in mind that a soccer pitch is wider than an American football field


Chelsea and Man City played games at Busch Stadium and Yankee Stadium this past weekk



















Fenway hosted Liverpool and Roma last season


----------



## Lumbergo

my point wasn't that soccer cannot be played in baseball stadiums.

Dodger stadium's dimensions do not allow for a pitch (unless it is not a full size FIFA pitch)


----------



## slipperydog

It should fit just fine.


----------



## tehlazerviking

MarkJF said:


> I agree. What I was getting at though, and with no disrespect intended, was how do USA fans perceive tournaments like these? Like they mean something or as warm up tours?


The same way you do. A chance to watch great players live.


----------



## MarkJF

tehlazerviking said:


> The same way you do. A chance to watch great players live.


But I wouldn't pay to watch any of these teams/players, unless it was in a competitive match, one they cared about winning or losing.

I made an exception for Messi, because he is a phenomenon, I'd have paid to see Maradona or Pele too, any time, anywhere, but no others.


----------



## slipperydog

MarkJF said:


> But I wouldn't pay to watch any of these teams/players, unless it was in a competitive match, one they cared about winning or losing.


You might not pay to watch friendly matches, but many others do. I'm not still not sure what we're really discussing here.


----------



## MarkJF

slipperydog said:


> You might not pay to watch friendly matches, but many others do. I'm not still not sure what we're really discussing here.


Well, I was clear and polite enough.........

I hadn't even heard of the tournament and I wanted to know how USA fans perceived it? I don't know, that's why I asked, there are no subliminal messages here.


----------



## bd popeye

Lumbergo said:


> wait a minute! Dodger stadium?!
> 
> i'm pretty damn sure you can't fit a soccer pitch on that field. a football field will not even fit unless you remove some of the outfield bleachers....
> 
> keep in mind that a soccer pitch is wider than an American football field


Yep.. read about it. I'm trying to find a picture of how the stadium will be configured.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/dodge...event-dodger-stadium-20130528,0,2455978.story


----------



## slipperydog

MarkJF said:


> Well, I was clear and polite enough.........
> 
> I hadn't even heard of the tournament and I wanted to know how USA fans perceived it? I don't know, that's why I asked, there are no subliminal messages here.


They probably perceive it like most people perceive friendlies.


----------



## ChesterCopperpot

Lumbergo said:


> my point wasn't that soccer cannot be played in baseball stadiums.
> 
> Dodger stadium's dimensions do not allow for a pitch (unless it is not a full size FIFA pitch)


Dodger Field dimensions 










Busch Stadium Dimensions - which are pretty much the same


----------



## westsidebomber

ChesterCopperpot said:


> Dodger Field dimensions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Busch Stadium Dimensions - which are pretty much the same


Those are not the current dimensions for either stadium. Dodger Stadium has added seats in foul territory that eat up a lot of space. The 2nd picture is of Busch Stadium II. The Man City/Chelsea match was played in its successor, Busch Stadium III.

Dodger Stadium

Busch Stadium III

I'm not sure how they will get a full soccer field to fit in Dodger Stadium without removing some seating first (presumably some of the outfield pavilions), but I doubt they would have gone ahead with their plans without making sure they could get it done.


----------



## vanbasten88

Americans have the opposite problem to us here in Australia. You have to reduce the dimensions of a Soccer pitch to FIFA minimums in order to fit/squeeze it into a baseball field whereas Australia's biggest Stadiums are Oval shaped to allow for Australian Rules Football, this means the regulation FIFA pitch is usually a long way away from the fans and the atmosphere is reduced You are lucky that modern NFL stadia are often designed with Soccer in Mind. Down here multi-purpose seems to mean optimised for AFL and us Soccer guys can just suck it. 

Australia's biggest Stadium, ANZ Stadium(Sydney 2000 Olympic Main Stadium) suffers because the AFL put some money into the design process to ensure it was able to have moving seating to accommodate an Oval shaped field. This means spectators are a heck of a long way away from the game in rectangular mode for Rugby and Soccer etc. 


Docklands Stadium, Melbourne, Victoria [Melbourne VictoryFC] A-League Home game. 

How the Melbourne Cricket Ground, Melbourne, Victoria appeared in our bid book for the FIFA World Cup.


----------



## Kerrybai

MarkJF said:


> Well, I was clear and polite enough.........
> 
> I hadn't even heard of the tournament and I wanted to know how USA fans perceived it? I don't know, that's why I asked, there are no subliminal messages here.


As someone said already the perceive it in the same way you do, as a warm up match. The reason they are willing to pay is to see their favourite teams/players which is not something they can do very often.


----------



## bd popeye

bd popeye said:


> Yep.. read about it. I'm trying to find a picture of how the stadium will be configured.
> 
> http://www.latimes.com/sports/dodge...event-dodger-stadium-20130528,0,2455978.story


I went to stubhub.com to get a seating chart for soccer matches to be held in Dodger Stadium.. and this is what I saw.

http://www.stubhub.com/venue/dodger-stadium/



Nuthin', nadda, zip, zilch..zero.:?


----------



## mamangvilla

ChesterCopperpot said:


> Fenway hosted Liverpool and Roma last season


^^
It's fortunate that a soccer match usually over in under two hours, anymore than that a lot of people would have a severe neck sore.


----------



## MarkJF

Kerrybai said:


> As someone said already the perceive it in the same way you do, as a warm up match. The reason they are willing to pay is to see their favourite teams/players which is not something they can do very often.


I am not so sure..........I'd like to see some links to show how the tournament is being sold in the USA. 40-60k crowds for friendlies is incredible! Long may it continue.

It can't be done here now, the similar Wembley Cup I went to had a local London club (Tottenham), the club with the biggest travelling support in the UK, Celtic along with the most prestigious team in the world, Barcelona with Messi. 

I don't recall the crowd, but am sure it was disappointing, maybe around 27k in an 80k stadium with probably half of that crowd having come from Scotland!


----------



## Scba

I just don't understand playing soccer in a baseball stadium.


----------



## eMKay

Scba said:


> I just don't understand playing soccer in a baseball stadium.


Ir's just a "because we can" thing, something different to get the fans out there.


----------



## GunnerJacket

MarkJF said:


> I am not so sure..........I'd like to see some links to show how the tournament is being sold in the USA. 40-60k crowds for friendlies is incredible! Long may it continue.
> 
> It can't be done here now, the similar Wembley Cup I went to had a local London club (Tottenham), the club with the biggest travelling support in the UK, Celtic along with the most prestigious team in the world, Barcelona with Messi.
> 
> I don't recall the crowd, but am sure it was disappointing, maybe around 27k in an 80k stadium with probably half of that crowd having come from Scotland!


For the US these are rare novelty acts. Special events. Fans who otherwise don't get to see Ronaldo, etc, will enjoy the chance to be part of an earnest scene with such big names and brands. For fans in Europe, already inundated with the experience such off-season games are what they are - meaningless exhibitions that will mostly feature reserves so why waste the money when the real season is around the corner.

Here in the US we have the same with the NFL. The fabled league will pack the stands 65-80k strong every week during the short season and dominate TV ratings, but the pre-season games are sparsely attended and tough to watch when you're used to the real thing.



Scba said:


> I just don't understand playing soccer in a baseball stadium.


Serious answer: It's a pragmatic approach to peddling the product when and where they're able. A novelty vs. the risk of playing in a cavernous NFL venue and seeing 35K people scattered throughout. Not my first choice to be sure, but obviously people are/were buying.

Real answer: Well I don't get the appeal of Kesha or Duck Dynasty. Just goes to show you there's no accounting for taste!


----------



## MicroX

I wonder how much it cost to convert the field from baseball to soccer and back to baseball.


----------



## Lumbergo

remove pitcher mound and infield dirt - plant grass for a week. paint lines. done.
can't be that much. american football used to be played in baseball stadia all the time before the NFL really took off. it's not rocket science as long as you have a good ground crew. the bigger problems arise from going back and fourth constantly.
but for one off games? not a problem.
even easier if it's field turf.

also, I still don't think they'll be able to fit a fifa regulation pitch in dodger stadium. i'd love to be proved wrong because the only way I see them doing it is doing some kind of alteration to the stands.


----------



## MicroX

Lumbergo said:


> remove pitcher mound and infield dirt - plant grass for a week. paint lines. done.


A week? Aren't we in the middle of the MLB season


----------



## Lumbergo

looking at the schedule they actually only have 3 days to pull it off (Dodgers will be on the road aug 1st - 8th with the game scheduled aug 3rd.


----------



## will101

Lumbergo said:


> also, I still don't think they'll be able to fit a fifa regulation pitch in dodger stadium. i'd love to be proved wrong because the only way I see them doing it is doing some kind of alteration to the stands.


The pitch only has to be a minimum of 90 meters long and 45 wide. They can fit that in without too much trouble. And since this whole tournament is just a glorified exhibition, no one will make a fuss over smaller dimensions at Dodger Stadium.


----------



## KLynch

MicroX said:


> I wonder how much it cost to convert the field from baseball to soccer and back to baseball.


I know these events are worth spending money. M&T Bank Stadium pays over $200k every summer for sod to cover the turf for soccer matches.


----------



## metros11

matthemod said:


> I just feel a bit sorry for those original NASL Cosmos fans, this all but assures the new Cosmos won't ever step up to the MLS.


The vast majority of the original Cosmos fans, are already following the MetroBulls.


----------



## GunnerJacket

metros11 said:


> The vast majority of the original Cosmos fans, are already following the MetroBulls.


I doubt that or else Red Bull would be drawing better, there wouldn't have been such a push for a 2nd NYC team and there wouldn't have been the grassroots Cosmos program now headed for NASL.

Perhaps someday Red Bull can/will be bought out and a new owner will consider adopting the Cosmos brand.


----------



## soup or man

Just for reference, here are the stadiums of the MLS.

Chicago Fire (Toyota Park)









Columbus Crew (Columbus Crew Stadium)









DC United (RFK Stadium)









Sporting Kansas City (Sporting Park)









New England Revolution (Gillette Stadium)









Red Bull New York (Red Bull Arena)









Philadelphia Union (PPL Park)









Toronto FC (BMO Field)









LA Galaxy/Chivas USA (StubHub Center)









Colorado Rapids (Dick's Sporting Goods Park)









FC Dallas (FC Dallas Stadium)









Houston Dynamo (BBVA Compass Stadium)









Real Salt Lake (Rio Tinto Stadium)









San Jose Earthquakes (Buck Shaw Stadium)









Seattle Sounders (CenturyLink Field)









Vancouver Whitecaps FC (BC Place)









Portland Timbers (Jeld-Wen Stadium)









Montreal Impact (Saputo Stadium)


----------



## Neda Say

^^Some images above are outdated!


----------



## carnifex2005

I was going to say the same thing. The Toronto and especially the Montreal stadiums have changed a lot.


----------



## mckeenan

^^ Anyway... very decent football (soccer) stadiums in USA & Canada. Seattle's CenturyLink Field is quite impressive. About the only soccer purpose stadiums, the Red Bull's and BBVA Compass are fantastic. Curiously enough, some of those, like the Dallas FC's, truly exudes a british vibe, with one big main stand and tiny backends withouth roofs. 

Anyway, the new stadiums are quite good, but... if you can, go see a game in one of those oldie-like.


----------



## JJG

mckeenan said:


> ^^ Anyway... very decent football (soccer) stadiums in USA & Canada. Seattle's CenturyLink Field is quite impressive. About the only soccer purpose stadiums, the Red Bull's and BBVA Compass are fantastic. Curiously enough,* some of those, like the Dallas FC's, truly exudes a british vibe, with one big main stand and tiny backends withouth roofs. *
> 
> Anyway, the new stadiums are quite good, but... if you can, go see a game in one of those oldie-like.


How many times have we been over this...?


----------



## mckeenan

JJG said:


> How many times have we been over this...?



Sorry... i would not read the +400 pages of the thread.


----------



## bd popeye

> Anyway... very decent football (soccer) stadiums in USA & Canada. Seattle's CenturyLink Field is quite impressive.


Since you are new you may be interested to know that Century Link Field is also the home of the Seattle Seahawks of the NFL. The Seahawks average attendance was *67,946* for the 2012 season.


----------



## mckeenan

bd popeye said:


> Since you are new you may be interested to know that Century Link Field is also the home of the Seattle Seahawks of the NFL. The Seahawks average attendance was *67,946* for the 2012 season.


I knew about the Seahawks, but thank you. Anyway, did someone knows what's the largest stadium of those built just for soccer in North America?


----------



## bd popeye

mckeenan said:


> I knew about the Seahawks, but thank you. Anyway, did someone knows what's the largest stadium of those built just for soccer in North America?


That would be *Red Bull Arena*. Capacity 25,000.

..and...

*About Red Bull Arena*


----------



## slipperydog

Groundbreaking today for the new stadium for Virginia Cavalry FC and the Loudon Hounds to open in 2014.


----------



## mamangvilla

bd popeye said:


> That would be *Red Bull Arena*. Capacity 25,000.


Isn't Home Depot bigger? If I remember correctly, it has 27k capacity.


----------



## bd popeye

mamangvilla said:


> Isn't Home Depot bigger? If I remember correctly, it has 27k capacity.


Yep you are correct. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Soccer_stadiums

They have a hokey capacity situation there as it is.

Stubhub Center


----------



## Neda Say

slipperydog said:


> Groundbreaking today for the new stadium for Virginia Cavalry FC and the Loudon Hounds to open in 2014.


hno:Somebody is going to tell me that it makes sense to do it, but why oh why!!!

Having a pitch for football/soccer and Baseball into one single stadium is a terrible idea!:bash:


----------



## slipperydog

Of course it's not ideal to share a stadium with a different sport, but sometimes it's more cost-effective to do so. The community invests in a stadium and gets two for one.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Neda Say said:


> hno:Somebody is going to tell me that it makes sense to do it, but why oh why!!!
> 
> Having a pitch for football/soccer and Baseball into one single stadium is a terrible idea!:bash:


The soccer is an afterthought and the team basically has nowhere else to play, so they approached the baseball team about making this work. It's a great looking baseball stadium that happens to also host soccer.

For now lower tier soccer teams in the US can't be choosey in their options for home grounds. That is the best the Cavalry can do until they develop a fan base.


----------



## GunnerJacket

My question would be the field surface. Unlike the discussion above about rare soccer games at places like Yankee Stadium, Busch Stadium, etc, this one would probably have to cover and uncover the dirt infield quite often, meaning the soccer pitch will routinely have seams, even for real grass.


----------



## mckeenan

GunnerJacket said:


> The soccer is an afterthought and the team basically has nowhere else to play, so they approached the baseball team about making this work. It's a great looking baseball stadium that happens to also host soccer.


Im not sure if mixed sport arenas are a good idea in the beginning. Of course, for a soccer team with modest income, it would be ok to share a stadium. But... how about scheduling games? It involves not only two different teams, but two different competitions. That means that baseball schedule will depend on soccer's (or the opposite).


----------



## nicko_viteh

I think that the main problem is the big difference between both sports. Probably, could be easily solved if it's between soccer and american football.


----------



## carnifex2005

GunnerJacket said:


> My question would be the field surface. Unlike the discussion above about rare soccer games at places like Yankee Stadium, Busch Stadium, etc, this one would probably have to cover and uncover the dirt infield quite often, meaning the soccer pitch will routinely have seams, even for real grass.


Sporting Kansas City regularly played at a minor league ballpark before moving to Sporting Park and both Beckham and Freddie Ljungberg called the pitch the best in MLS, so it is possible to be done properly.


----------



## Guest

If it was MLS it would be a concern, but for lower tiers its fine. Its a start, there is no eush in finding their own SSS.


----------



## ObiUbamba

As a Rowdies Fan, I can say that playing football in a baseball stadium is dreadful. The grass isn't properly laid, only a quarter of the playing surface is covered by terraces, and it just doesn't feel right. Those teams in the MLS don't know how lucky they are to have SSS.


----------



## derzberb

soup or man said:


> Philadelphia Union (PPL Park)


love that view with that huge bridge-construction in the background


----------



## Topher51

slipperydog said:


> Groundbreaking today for the new stadium for Virginia Cavalry FC and the Loudon Hounds to open in 2014.


I used to live about 10 minutes from where they are building this stadium. Both the baseball team and soccer team will do well because there is a large, affluent population base all around the new development and in evening traffic, it is a good hour down to RFK or Nats Park for a major league game. The same group owns the stadium and both teams, so it is very unlikely the Calvary will ever play anywhere but here. The teams are meant to be a draw to bring people into the new town center, so a single stadium that was designed to accommodate both sports made sense. They didn’t want to allocate land for two separate stadiums here because the real estate prices in Northern VA are rather pricey and the rest of this development will be fairly dense. Despite what the consensus is on this forum, watching a soccer match at a baseball stadium is not that bad. It may not be perfect, but I have never heard one bad word about Jen-Weld Field and that very much still has a baseball stadium shape to it. 

I really like the team name, BTW.


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## GunnerJacket

Topher51 said:


> but I have never heard one bad word about Jen-Weld Field and that very much still has a baseball stadium shape to it.


Not an adequate comparison, though. Jen-Weld features a 90' angle for their old baseline stands, so when it was renovated for soccer the resulting configuration still makes an ideal rectangular shape to the seating. None of those stands face the sidelines or touchlines at an odd angle more appropriate for baseball.


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## matthemod

There's a difference between a Baseball stadium that's had a soccer pitch squeezed into it, and Jen-Weld which has by all accounts been modified to suit soccer. Just looking at those awkward sightlines for the Virginia Cavalry makes me feel sorry for their fans. Saying that, a couple of years of adversity is one sure fire way to inspire a hardcore support.


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## joezierer

Stuff costs money, I'd rather a team play in a pro baseball stadium than a high school football stadium.


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## JJG

joezierer said:


> Stuff costs money,* I'd rather a team play in a pro baseball stadium than a high school football stadium.*


Unless you are in Texas...


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## rantanamo

JJG said:


> Unless you are in Texas...


Werrrrrd. Places like Allen or Berry Center wouldn't hurt at all.


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## The Game Is Up

Is it me or have the rumors of new MLS teams or rumors of interest in new soccer teams spread like wildfire, all of a sudden?


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## Guest

The Game Is Up said:


> Is it me or have the rumors of new MLS teams or rumors of interest in new soccer teams spread like wildfire, all of a sudden?


Orlandos interest has been known for a while. Beckhams contract clause is mostly responsible for the flurry of Miami/Atlanta/Phoenix/every other city rumors. 

I get the sense that the next wave of expansion will introduce two new teams at once. Any two of Miami/Orlando/Atlanta seem like safe bets. If I was a betting man, Id say MLS would prefer the next two teams be Miami and Atlanta. Orlando could squeeze in by buying out Vergara at Chivas perhaps? I dunno. Or perhaps the jump to 24 might take place a lot sooner than imagined.


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## Lumbergo

what does Miami have that Orlando does not? oh that's right, nothing.

why start from scratch when Orlando already has land bought for a stadium, a stadium design already drawn up, and most important of all - a team that already exists and has good fan support (6-9K show up for every game, which for USL Pro is pretty damn good)

MLS wants back into the Southeast - it's a totally neglected market that is unrepresented in the MLS and hurts the league in a far as viewers and ad revenue goes by not tapping into the market.

when Miami and Tampa had teams - they were not given a chance to flourish and build a fan base before the two teams folded. now there actually are teams that have consistent fan bases - Ft Lauderdale, Orlando, and even Tampa Bay. Orlando is the new comer but Tampa and Ft Lauderdale have a history spanning decades. now that MLS has grown as much as it has - these teams deserve another chance. so far, only Orlando has it's shit together which is why they will probably be the next team to get into the MLS. I can't comment on Atlanta because I have no idea what kind of support they have up there. 

If I had to guess, i'd say the next to teams to gain admittance to MLS will be Orlando and San Antonio.


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## GunnerJacket

Lumbergo said:


> what does Miami have that Orlando does not? oh that's right, nothing.


About 3M more people? A stronger business element? Greater appeal for potential well-to-do owners? Stronger appeal to the Latino market? All the Ft. Lauderdale history you referenced before? :dunno:

Dunno, I'm just thinking out loud here.


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## GunnerJacket

The Game Is Up said:


> Is it me or have the rumors of new MLS teams or rumors of interest in new soccer teams spread like wildfire, all of a sudden?


I think in terms of legit MLS rumors it's actually died down now that NYCFC has been confirmed. I do think that there's more talk about teams and potential owners wanting to get into soccer in general, but much of that is casual. Take Minneapolis and Atlanta, for instance, where there is such discussion as relates to the new stadiums the NFL teams are getting. Yes, people mention how the venues are designed to accomodate soccer but I don't suspect there's serious intent on the owners to pursue teams in the next few years.


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## Lumbergo

MicroX said:


> NFL team
> NHL team
> MLB team
> Sawgrass
> A beach



wow, none of that matters.

if anything, that is competition for people's attention. Miami's current pro teams already suffer because there are too many other things for people to spend their time and money on.
Orlando has 1 pro team - the NBA Orlando magic. what a glorious market for another sport to swoop in and take advantage of that. not to mention the centralized location would allow for them to pull from Tampa bay, Jacksonville/St Augustine , and Ocala/Gainesville. just my 2 cents.


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## matthemod

It worked for Portland.


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## MicroX

Lumbergo said:


> Miami's current pro teams already suffer because there are too many other things for people to spend their time and money on.


______________ current pro teams already suffer because there are too many other things people to spend their time and money on.

Your argument is too generic and unfounded. I can apply that to any city's pro sports teams.


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## GunnerJacket

Lumbergo said:


> if anything, that is competition for people's attention. Miami's current pro teams already suffer because there are too many other things for people to spend their time and money on.
> Orlando has 1 pro team - the NBA Orlando magic. what a glorious market for another sport to swoop in and take advantage of that. not to mention the centralized location would allow for them to pull from Tampa bay, Jacksonville/St Augustine , and Ocala/Gainesville. just my 2 cents.


Yes and no. Pro sports are known to have kind of a multiplier effect on entertainment depending on the community and how the product is delivered. Cities with multiple offerings create a local sports market that feeds off all the related activity. Several industries (especially convention & travel related) look to that as a sign of abundance and variety for which they'll grow more enthused.


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## ccgk51156

*Highmark Stadium - Pittsburgh*










Highmark Stadium, Station Square, Pittsburgh, PA. Home of the Pittsburgh Riverhounds USL Pro soccer team. Pittsburgh Riverhounds 1:1 Toronto FC Reserves.

Photo taken June 7th, 2013 on my Samsung ATIV Odyssey Window 8 phone using the Photosynth App.

The stadium is in a great location and has amazing views, but it is a minor league facility with no room to grow in a major league town. The game play and atmosphere was perfectly fine, but the new stadium lacked many things that would warrant me seeing this team growing. The restrooms (men's) were very small and the lines even went to the door (one door to enter/exit). The "concourse" underneath the stands bottle-necked towards the left side of this image due to the road behind the stadium. I did not like that aspect, as there were concession carts (and some lines for those carts) near this location plus low passage under the bleachers (about 6'6" at spots). 

Overall, a great idea but it is still not a good enough stadium for a professional city. I think that it is a good stadium for the WPIAL playoffs and local college sides, but for a professional side that wants to grow to the MLS by 2020, I do not think this was a viable option.

One idea that crossed my mind was: they cannot possibly be considering to add seats to this location to grow the facility to 18,000 for the MLS; maybe they will consider demolishing most of stadium location OR they plan on building somewhere else in the city if they were to join the MLS. My thought was maybe they could purchase the land next to Consol Energy Center where Civic Arena once stood (now a parking lot) and develop a MLS stadium there (which would also be "downtown"). They could also team with the Penguins to build a stadium that fits in with the Consol Energy Center architecture and build a decent number of parking garage spaces that would be a share use for Consol Energy Center visitors, Riverhounds fans, and city workers.


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## Guest

I don't mean to sound like a jerk but Pittsburgh in MLS was never a likely scenario. Even in the scenario that the north east needed another team, I'm not even sure it would beat out Baltimore. Too many cities in the south east, mid west and even west to consider another tem in the north east, which at this point I feel is perfectly accounted for.


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## MarkJF

ccgk, that is a lovely pic, what is behind the open side, a river?

Still enjoying pics from this thread, it's a pleasure to see architecturally "oddball" stadiums, ones that you can instantly identify with a team/City. Often, watching TV in homogenised, 2 tier bowl, Euroland, it takes me time to work out where the game is being played.


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## will101

MarkJF said:


> ccgk, that is a lovely pic, what is behind the open side, a river?


Beyond the open side you have two train tracks, then it goes downhill a little bit to the Monongahela River. If you go into Google maps, and type in "N 40 26.16 W 80 0.57", then click on "Satellite", the actual site is still shown as a parking lot, but you can see everything else in the vicinity.


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## GunnerJacket

ccgk51156 said:


> The game play and atmosphere was perfectly fine, but the new stadium lacked many things that would warrant me seeing this team growing...
> 
> One idea that crossed my mind was: they cannot possibly be considering to add seats to this location to grow the facility to 18,000 for the MLS...


While the owners may have a long-term vision for MLS they've publicly avowed that this site would not suffice for an MLS sized venue. Even though you could engineer a beautiful facility with one low stand along the river side of maybe 15-18k, beyond that you stretch the transportation access and comfort of the location. They've said for now they'll use this location to help endear the fans to the team while at this level of support, then begin making plans for expansion/relocation as needed. 

MLS is likely a good 10+ years out, if that.


> Overall, a great idea but it is still not a good enough stadium for a professional city...


I'll disagree in that it's a good fit for where they're at now. I'd expect the owner to listen to comments such as yours and respond over the years, as they're just now learning what works and what doesn't with this venue. Otherwise, as far as stadiums in the 5k range this sure seems nice.


5portsF4n said:


> ...Pittsburgh in MLS was never a likely scenario. Even in the scenario that the north east needed another team, I'm not even sure it would beat out Baltimore. Too many cities in the south east, mid west and even west to consider another tem in the north east, which at this point I feel is perfectly accounted for.


a) Culturally I'd say Pittsburgh is as much midwest as it is northeast, and could make a fine rival for Columbus, Chicago, Philly and Toronto. and we all know how much rivals help the cause for attendance and support.
b) MLS has done fairly well responding to markets who will support the team and make a good show for TV, so I don't know that they'll pursue cities for their metro market size. I agree they're exploring gaps to fill across the nation and for that reason Pittsburgh is unlikely choice #1, but these days any proposal with a financially sound owner, a quality venue and MLS-sized support will get strong consideration.

Even if they don't, that ambition is what will help drive the 2nd and 3rd tiers of pro soccer in the US, which is sorely needed.


MarkJF said:


> ccgk, that is a lovely pic, what is behind the open side, a river?


Yes.


> Still enjoying pics from this thread, it's a pleasure to see architecturally "oddball" stadiums, ones that you can instantly identify with a team/City. Often, watching TV in homogenised, 2 tier bowl, Euroland, it takes me time to work out where the game is being played.


That is the joy of smaller venues, isn't it. The larger and more corporate the club the greater the need to maximize the volume of seats surrounding the pitch. Nothing wrong with that but it does stifle the creativity available.


----------



## bd popeye

Pitch layout & Seating chart for the upcoming matches at Dodger Stadium. If I find a better one I'll post it.

http://www.stubhub.com/venue/dodger-stadium/


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## will101

^^
That's what I expected. Just shrink the pitch to close to the FIFA minimum.


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## SVB28

Awesome atmosphere in Seattle last night. Hopefully the atmosphere can be just as good in KC, which I bet it will be close. I almost wish they would move it from Sporting Park to Arrowhead Stadium and get maybe 50-60,000 people at least to the game, but that may be tough. Maybe for the next cycle they can play in more NFL stadiums like Arrowhead.


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## eMKay




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## slipperydog




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## slipperydog




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## slipperydog




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## mamangvilla

Why the upper deck was closed? If the Sounders got 60k crowd for a meaningless friendly against Chelsea then USMNT playing in a crucial WC qualification should easily have a sellout crowd.


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## GunnerJacket

mamangvilla said:


> Why the upper deck was closed? If the Sounders got 60k crowd for a meaningless friendly against Chelsea then USMNT playing in a crucial WC qualification should easily have a sellout crowd.


Centurylink Field is adjacent to the Seattle Mariners baseball stadium, which was hosting a game at that same time. When that happens then Centurylink is limited to about 45k capacity so as not to overtax transportation and safety systems for the area. Only exception is when the Seahawks play, but that might be at best twice a year.


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## tehlazerviking

mamangvilla said:


> Why the upper deck was closed? If the Sounders got 60k crowd for a meaningless friendly against Chelsea then USMNT playing in a crucial WC qualification should easily have a sellout crowd.


The Seattle Sounders bring over 60,000 something like 5 times a season. The attendance for international friendlies are usually "terrible" compared to regular home games.


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## slipperydog

I doubt any other city in America would have gotten 42,000 on a Tuesday night for a qualifier against Panama. Very impressive showing.


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## MarkJF

Wow, that brought back memories of the simple pleasure gained from watching a football game. Fantastic! I suppose an equivalent game would have been England v Moldova, Wembley would have been 30% empty and as quiet as a morgue.


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## GunnerJacket

MarkJF said:


> Wow, that brought back memories of the simple pleasure gained from watching a football game. Fantastic! I suppose an equivalent game would have been England v Moldova, Wembley would have been 30% empty and as quiet as a morgue.


Panama is much better than Moldova. Competition wise it'd be more like England vs Norway. But I get what you're saying.


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## Otto Racecar

slipperydog said:


> I doubt any other city in America would have gotten 42,000 on a Tuesday night for a qualifier against Panama. Very impressive showing.


Although it was an impressive showing for seattle, I completely disagree with that statement.


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## krudmonk

Otto Racecar said:


> Although it was an impressive showing for seattle, I completely disagree with that statement.


And I agree with this one.


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## Otto Racecar

GunnerJacket said:


> Panama is much better than Moldova. Competition wise it'd be more like England vs Norway. But I get what you're saying.


Right. As an example in FIFA rankings (for whatever they're worth) Panama is ranked 43rd where as Moldova is 134th.


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## slipperydog

Otto Racecar said:


> Although it was an impressive showing for seattle, I completely disagree with that statement.


Tuesday night vs. Panama.

LA no, Houston no, DC no, New York no, jacksonville no, portland no, kansas city no, columbus no, denver no, chicago no, philadelphia no, detroit no, dallas no, baltimore no, phoenix no, san diego no


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## westsidebomber

slipperydog said:


> Tuesday night vs. Panama.
> 
> LA no, Houston no, DC no, New York no, jacksonville no, portland no, kansas city no, columbus no, denver no, chicago no, philadelphia no, detroit no, dallas no, baltimore no, phoenix no, san diego no


Really? Seattle had a great showing no doubt. The Outlaws were awesome all game. But let's not blow it out of proportion. The USMNT playing in a WC qualifier would be a huge draw no matter where they had played.

KC for one would have a legit shot to get >40,000. Only thing holding them back is stadium size. If they had played the game at Arrowhead there would have easily been 40,000.

Put the next US/Mexico game in Ohio Stadium and I guarantee you draw more than 40,000.

Portland would be interesting but I bet they'd get a ton of people for a USMNT WC qualifier.

Need I go on?


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## slipperydog

westsidebomber said:


> Really? Seattle had a great showing no doubt. The Outlaws were awesome all game. But let's not blow it out of proportion. The USMNT playing in a WC qualifier would be a huge draw no matter where they had played.
> 
> KC for one would have a legit shot to get >40,000. Only thing holding them back is stadium size. If they had played the game at Arrowhead there would have easily been 40,000.
> 
> Put the next US/Mexico game in Ohio Stadium and I guarantee you draw more than 40,000.
> 
> Portland would be interesting but I bet they'd get a ton of people for a USMNT WC qualifier.
> 
> Need I go on?


LOL anyone could sell out vs Mexico. I'm talking about a Tuesday night against Panama. No way Columbus could sell 40,000 tickets for that. If KC could have sold 40,000 tickets on a weeknight against Panama, they would be playing these qualifiers in a stadium that could fit that many. At $60-80/ticket, the USSF would be foolish not to. I can't think of any other city that has sold more than 40,000 to a weeknight qualifier against a mediocre opponent ever. The federation couldn't even sell out RFK on a Saturday night for the team's crucial last home qualifier last cycle against a good opponent.


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## MarkJF

Otto Racecar said:


> Right. As an example in FIFA rankings (for whatever they're worth) Panama is ranked 43rd where as Moldova is 134th.



Good grief! There is no need to analyse my choice of hypothetical opposition! Moldova/Panama, same thing, expected nailed on home win against limited opposition with no "stars" on a Tuesday night = not such an attractive event. I think the crowd was very good indeed.

BTW The FIFA rankings are always good for a laugh, Brazil 22nd, Croatia 4th, France 18th! Croatia just beaten at home by Scotland in WC qualifier, the Jocks are 74th..................


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## elcapitan

*City Hall officials seek to bring professional soccer to downtown L.A. area*

Plans for a professional football stadium in downtown Los Angeles may be withering, but city officials are quietly rallying around another sport: Soccer. Hoping to raise the city's sports profile and bring in tourism dollars, officials are seeking to land a Major League Soccer team and a new stadium. A draft report on tourism and sports goals for Los Angeles released last month states a professional soccer team would be a benefit to the city, and it outlines plans to pursue a team.

http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_23465499/city-hall-officials-seek-bring-professional-soccer-downtown


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## elcapitan

*StubHub pledges to make Carson soccer stadium fan-friendly facility*

Ticket broker StubHub, whose corporate name now adorns Carson's former Home Depot Center, has pledged to enhance the fan experience at the 24,500-seat stadium that opened in 2003. "Our goal is to make this one of the most fan-friendly facilities in the world," StubHub spokeswoman Alison Salcedo said Thursday. "This is going to be a process and it's going to happen over the next six years." StubHub, a subsidiary of eBay, paid in the neighborhood of $60 million for the six-year naming rights deal, although officials declined to reveal the exact amount. Home Depot had paid $70 million over 10 years for the naming rights to the 125-acre sports complex on the campus of Cal State Dominguez Hills back in 2002.

http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_23454654/stubhub-pledges-make-carson-soccer-stadium-fan-friendly


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## Guest

elcapitan said:


> *City Hall officials seek to bring professional soccer to downtown L.A. area*
> 
> Plans for a professional football stadium in downtown Los Angeles may be withering, but city officials are quietly rallying around another sport: Soccer. Hoping to raise the city's sports profile and bring in tourism dollars, officials are seeking to land a Major League Soccer team and a new stadium. A draft report on tourism and sports goals for Los Angeles released last month states a professional soccer team would be a benefit to the city, and it outlines plans to pursue a team.
> 
> http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_23465499/city-hall-officials-seek-bring-professional-soccer-downtown


A football stadium with Galaxy moving in would be ideal. I think LAG could draw 30,000+ in a new football stadium closer to downtown. The city still needs a new football stadium though. Id prefer the idea of killing two birds with one stone.


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## SVB28

slipperydog said:


> If KC could have sold 40,000 tickets on a weeknight against Panama, they would be playing these qualifiers in a stadium that could fit that many.


Not necessarily true. The Chiefs host the Raiders 2 days after the qualifier in KC and so they wouldn't have been able to play there anyways because I am sure the Chiefs wouldn't have allowed it. But if Sporting Park had 40,000 seats, it would be sold out. They chose Sporting Park for its great atmosphere and the fact that it only has ~19k seats means the demand for the tickets will be higher. I am confident they could have sold 40,000, at least, here also.


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## westsidebomber

slipperydog said:


> LOL anyone could sell out vs Mexico. I'm talking about a Tuesday night against Panama. No way Columbus could sell 40,000 tickets for that. If KC could have sold 40,000 tickets on a weeknight against Panama, they would be playing these qualifiers in a stadium that could fit that many. At $60-80/ticket, the USSF would be foolish not to. I can't think of any other city that has sold more than 40,000 to a weeknight qualifier against a mediocre opponent ever. The federation couldn't even sell out RFK on a Saturday night for the team's crucial last home qualifier last cycle against a good opponent.



Cleveland drew nearly 28,000 for the Belgium friendly on a Thursday. CLEVELAND! They are the complete opposite of a "soccer friendly" city. Who knows how many they could have drawn as only seats in the lower bowl were sold. And that was for a friendly! Surely they could have scrounged up an extra 12,000 for a WC qualifier to reach your "unattainable" 40K mark.

KC drew ~16,000 for a match in the US Open Cup...on Wednesday...against Orlando. KC fans are soccer crazy. And don't give me the BS "they would be playing these qualifiers in a stadium that could fit that many". If they had hosted the Panama game instead of Seattle, and had moved it to Arrowhead, there would have been >40,000 easy.

OH, and BTW, the game against Germany, which was not a qualifier, and was actually on Sunday, drew 47,359...meaning they sold every ticket they put up for sale...meaning it was a sellout. So there goes that argument.

Bottom line...if you think Seattle is the only city in the US that could draw 40,000 on a weeknight for a hugely important WC qualifier then you are dead wrong. The men's national team has become a huge draw in this country...no matter who they play, no matter when they play, and no matter where they play.


----------



## slipperydog

SVB28 said:


> Not necessarily true. The Chiefs host the Raiders 2 days after the qualifier in KC and so they wouldn't have been able to play there anyways because I am sure the Chiefs wouldn't have allowed it. But if Sporting Park had 40,000 seats, it would be sold out. They chose Sporting Park for its great atmosphere and the fact that it only has ~19k seats means the demand for the tickets will be higher. I am confident they could have sold 40,000, at least, here also.


Doubtful. The US is out to make money, and those tickets are expensive. If they could sell 40k instead of 20k, they would be playing at Arrowhead.



westsidebomber said:


> Bottom line...if you think Seattle is the only city in the US that could draw 40,000 on a weeknight for a hugely important WC qualifier then you are dead wrong. The men's national team has become a huge draw in this country...no matter who they play, no matter when they play, and no matter where they play.


If they had a large enough stadium, Portland is a 'possibility', but I highly doubt any other city could get that many on a Tuesday night against Panama. On the weekend sure, but during the week KC would maybe get around 37k, which is still impressive. Cleveland 'may' have gotten around 32k for a qualifier vs Panama, but even that's even a bit generous because a friendly vs Belgium is basically the same as a qualifier against Panama when you consider player recognition along with the importance. If Cleveland is getting 28k for a friendly vs Belgium, they are unlikely to get much more for Panama, even for a qualifier. The thing about soccer crowds is that you are usually scraping the bottom of the barrel, there isn't going to be a significant increase unless you have a world powerhouse coming to town, where the context is obviously completely different.

As for teams like Germany, Brazil, and Argentina they will always sell out in the US whether it's a friendly or not, especially on the weekend, so that's irrelevant. In 2009, the US played Costa Rica in a qualifier at RFK and didn't come close to 40,000. That's really all the evidence I need until proven otherwise where another city shows it can match what Seattle did.


----------



## Benn

^^Well when you have commissioner actively trying to kill his own league, sort of seems self inflicted.


----------



## bd popeye

weava said:


> Soccer is niche sport in the US with almost no mainstream coverage. I don't know a single soccer fan personally.


I agree. I do not know any MLS or pro soccer fans here in Iowa. I'm a stadium fan and a person interested in seeing soccer succeed in the US. It's a long time coming but the MLS is progressing. 

When I lived in San Diego many Mexican-Americans were fans of the Mexican Primera League. I did meet a couple that were LA Galaxy fans.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

chotu32 said:


> Fact. Sad but true


thats really amazing honestly. Where do you live? i know its not fair to compare to LA where there Soccer might be the second biggest sport after Basketball, but zero??


----------



## JJG

Benn said:


> ^^Well when you have commissioner actively trying to kill his own league, sort of seems self inflicted.


Bettman is exactly what makes it sad.


----------



## Lumbergo

chotu32 said:


> Fact. Sad but true


indeed. 

whenever I ask others if they've watched any recent matches (MLS, international, friendlies, confederations, etc) I always just get surprised or strange looks. even though a large majority of people played soccer as a child, very few follow it as adults.

popularity seems to spike whenever there is a world cup though, especially if the USA advances. there also seemed to be a mild spike of interest in soccer during the 2012 Olympics but other than that unless you live in a city that already has strong soccer support (which obviously very few do) then finding fellow supporters is tough to say the least.


----------



## The Game Is Up

There's many ways to look at it. One is the static analysis, which is acknowledging its lack of popularity in the country. On the other hand, the internet has allowed fans to interact with each in ways that wasn't possible 40 years ago. It's easier than ever to find someone who may have the same sporting interest as you. No more having to rely on a friend to bring back tapes of just completed matches, which was the case back then. 

What people miss is that association football is much more than what's happening on the field. There are fan groups, such as Sons of Ben or Timbers Army, that sprout out from the grassroots. Then there are the local amateur clubs scattered throughout the country but more noted in the local soccer hotbeds like Austin, Oregon/Washington, the Northeast, St. Louis, the Carolinas etc.. They've essentially kept the flame alive when it appeared that no established league could ever happen again. The issue is there's no such thing as a general soccer fan. There are fans of foreign league teams that appeal to ethnicity or national origin. These are the Brooklyn Italians-type clubs that fill a given role in the soccer landscape.

Obviously, playing the game as youngsters is not enough to foster an interest in the sport through adulthood. There needs to be other components, an understanding of the culture, a sense of amazement that makes one curious to know about what she/he is seeing.

What has helped the sports like baseball, football and basketball is that each has its own particular story, an evolving narrative, a sense of not knowing what could happen next but it could be exciting or downright disappointing (or just unsatisfactory), depending on your rooting interests. Players are like the actors in a play, playing out a story where you don't know its ending. Association football also has a story, but most of that has happened outside the country. We might hear names like Maradona, George Best, Johan Cruyff, Pele, Lionel Messi, Franz Beckenbauer, etc.. But what about the role players, the hard workers, the reliable players who don't necessary become stars? They are just as important to the story as the stars are. In the States, they've been trying to cast the likes of Landon Donovan and Clint Dempsey as transcending players. Both are very good players but aren't capable of breaking through well beyond the soccer fandom. Even if such a player is known, there's no guarantee it he/she would overcome 100+ years of ingrained habits of sports fans. Something else has to happen to accompany the talent gap closing. I've yet to know what that is.

One can offer various reasons why it's a niche sport but I still think it's in a good place now. Finding games is easier than ever, as long as you have a decent internet connection and can afford a streaming package. Teams are slowly building up academies which might help them address talent gaps that can't be filled by college graduates and low-end professionals. Whether those would work remain to be seen. But the most important thing is that local leagues like MLS are more in the conversation because they've now have competed in the continental competitions, they've been exposed to some of the better teams out there and now have a better idea of how much they need to make up in order to succeed.


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## alexandru.mircea

I am getting my fix of interaction with football (soccer) fans on two English language forums and both have a great number of American users. In one of them they form the second group after the English, in the other they are by far the first group.


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## MarkJF

The MLS now has reasonable profile in Europe, Beckham had a lot to do with that, replica Galaxy shirts are a common sight, the Seattle Sounders crowd figures are a talking point on many forums too and, the return of the Cosmos is seen as the return of one of football's iconic names, it's emblem is already very popular on youth sportswear in the UK.

It's time to do this pre-season lark the other way around. Look, I am sated by interminable football, what were once teams I never thought I'd see play live, I now see several times a year, through the long drawn out Champions & Europa League group phases, if I see Manchester United v Porto again, I'll scream. If AC Milan or PSG visited my area pre-season then I might not be sufficiently interested to go, if it's not Barcelona then I am not really bothered.

However, tell me the LA Galaxy, Seattle Sounders or the NY Cosmos are coming, then I'll queue for a ticket and pay good money.


----------



## GunnerJacket

The Game Is Up said:


> Obviously, playing the game as youngsters is not enough to foster an interest in the sport through adulthood. There needs to be other components, an understanding of the culture, a sense of amazement that makes one curious to know about what she/he is seeing.


I disagree. When the NASL was struggling there were indeed youth leagues but they were smaller and featured a high volume of parents unfamiliar with the game. (It was the passive alternative to American football.) The fact that so many more Americans are now familiar with that aspect fo the game, able to grasp the basic flow of the game and a sense of strategy, is in part why there is the higher level of interest now. There are more adults who know and appreciate the game, are raising their kids with an even better knowledge of the sport and have at least a passing interest in the pro games. I doubt we're seeing any of this if youth leagues weren't as prevalent back in the day, leaving my generation with only T-ball and pee-wee football to sate our interests.


> What has helped the sports like baseball, football and basketball is that each has its own particular story, an evolving narrative, a sense of not knowing what could happen next but...
> 
> Something else has to happen to accompany the talent gap closing. I've yet to know what that is.


IMO that something else is time. Time and stability on the part of MLS. Give us another generation or two of sports fans growing familiar with the league, the teams and the sport. Let us grow to recognize there'll always be a Chicago Fire or Houston Dynamo on the sports pages and on ESPN. Let us slowly see it as a peer (albeit much poorer) league on the US sports scene and we'll adapt to where it really is mainstream. Along the way the interesting stories of great players and momentous events will write themselves. 

OMO, anyway.


----------



## Guest

GunnerJacket said:


> IMO that something else is time. Time and stability on the part of MLS. Give us another generation or two of sports fans growing familiar with the league, the teams and the sport. Let us grow to recognize there'll always be a Chicago Fire or Houston Dynamo on the sports pages and on ESPN. Let us slowly see it as a peer (albeit much poorer) league on the US sports scene and we'll adapt to where it really is mainstream. Along the way the interesting stories of great players and momentous events will write themselves.
> 
> OMO, anyway.


True. Its just a matter of time. You dont build generations of support that the other majors have in the space of 18 years. Infact 18 years is a good 7-12 years (depending on how you classify it) short of just one single generation. 

TV ratings are dreadful, but by all other measures serious progress has been made since the late 90s. Im younger myself, so I'm not exactly sure what it was like, but I cant imagine we've ever had it this good. And it never helps when alot of your potential audience is watching Mexican or European soccer instead. 

Saying you've never met someone who likes soccer could be the equivalent of asking a Latino how many ice hockey fans he knows. Doesn't make ice hockey irrelevant. It depends on who you mingle with, and how old you are. If you're over 40, theres a good chance you dont know anyone who likes soccer, especially if you live in an MLS-less area. Under 30, that lessens probably. Under 20 and you're getting into the first proper age group thats always had soccer accessible to them through many platforms, be it video games, cable, World Cup, YouTube highlights, international media or whatever else. Im 24 myself and know enough people who follow the game, whether its MLS or EPL or whatever. 

The one poll any soccer fan is going to bring up is the one done by ESPN last year. The graph speaks for itself, so when you're disheartened by the standing of the game today, just remember that it could look a whole lot different in a few decades. I'm happy my 3 favorite sports occupy the top 3 spots of each column. Ok thats not quite true, Hispanics need a few more Brook Lopez's to get them over the baseball line. 

PS. Including NCAA football and basketball is kinda of stupid isn't it? People will get into the college game, you know, when they go to college. While it includes 18-24 year olds who do fit that mould, its also brought down by including 12-18 year olds, who don't fit that mould.


----------



## Guest

*FC Dallas New Stadium Sponsor?*

http://soccerblog.dallasnews.com/2013/06/is-fcd-close-to-a-new-stadium-sponsor.html/



> During in stadium training today, there was a group of FCD front office personnel and “suit types” when this appeared on the screen, along with a Toyota Tundra truck (made in San Antonio, TX, btw).
> 
> It’s not clear if this was a sales pitch, or a done deal.. But the irony of a place as hot as FCD Stadium being called “Tundra” is, uh, interesting. But hey, getting a corporate sponsor the size of Toyota would be impressive.
> 
> more to come as we dig up details… but in the meantime:












*New York RBs New Training Digs*


----------



## GunnerJacket

Well I'm told that part of Frisco is quite the desolate landscape...


----------



## bd popeye

Well now. That list may state that that soccer is the second most popular sport among non-hispanics 12-24 year olds. Those numbers to not equate into Tv ratings and sales of soccer gear..jersey's etc. 

I must be missing something. :hmm: maybe in 20+ years soccer will be the most popular sport in the US.


----------



## Guest

Well it wont be most popular. Even the graph shows thatll be football, not that we needed any evidence that football will always reign supreme. Itll still be behind baseball and basketball for sure aswell. But it certainly shows itll be far more mainstream than it is today. You dont really need research to tell you that though. its pretty evident itll be much bigger. But I do think itll get to a place like hockey, where even if its not on the level of the top 3, its still respected as one of the majors. 

We will see what the BPL ratings are like next year on NBC. I think youll get a much better reflection of who is watching what. I certainly wouldnt look at MLS ratings to gauge the sports overall appeal.


----------



## GunnerJacket

bd popeye said:


> Well now. That list may state that that soccer is the second most popular sport among non-hispanics 12-24 year olds. Those numbers to not equate into Tv ratings and sales of soccer gear..jersey's etc.
> 
> I must be missing something. :hmm: maybe in 20+ years soccer will be the most popular sport in the US.


No, the stats don't equate to TV ratings nor do they imply soccer will ever be the most popular sport (which it won't). What it suggests is a future US audience with greater soccer knowledge and likely a penchant for more soccer programming. MLS must still position themselves within that burgeoning landscape, and find broadcast partners that will help them out. So all this shows is potential, but at least it's there.


----------



## bd popeye

GunnerJacket said:


> No, the stats don't equate to TV ratings nor do they imply soccer will ever be the most popular sport (which it won't). What it suggests is a future US audience with greater soccer knowledge and likely a penchant for more soccer programming. MLS must still position themselves within that burgeoning landscape, and find broadcast partners that will help them out. So all this shows is potential, but at least it's there.


And I agree.^^. the attendance is GREAT! but the growth is slow but steady. I wish the MLS well. 

In my opinion..By the 2040-2050 time frame soccer will be the second most popular PRO sport in the USA.


----------



## noize

the interest and the success of the sport in the United States depend on the performance of the national team in world cups, which certainly will happen considering the development of soccer in the country in recent years.The improve of MLS, a evidently climbing course quality, bringing more and more quality players from all over the world and forming the next generation of good american players, also will push the sport a step towards. Strong squads, great espectacles, more fan base.


----------



## matthemod

Makes you wonder how popular the sport would be in the U.S., if the National team was in a harder confederation. As it stands the U.S. and Mexico are all but assured repeated World Cup qualification, as their confederation qualifiers consist mostly of Island minnows and small central American nations. Had the U.S. been placed in a theoretical trans-American confederation, competing against the likes of Brazil and Argentina, things may have been different.


----------



## GunnerJacket

matthemod said:


> Makes you wonder how popular the sport would be in the U.S., if the National team was in a harder confederation. As it stands the U.S. and Mexico are all but assured repeated World Cup qualification, as their confederation qualifiers consist mostly of Island minnows and small central American nations. Had the U.S. been placed in a theoretical trans-American confederation, competing against the likes of Brazil and Argentina, things may have been different.


Possibly, but then again being in a tougher confederation may equally drive appeal based on the bigger stage and intensity of your supposed Trans-American Confederation. Plus every confederation has their stalwarts and their minnows, even UEFA.

Having Brasil, Mexico, Argentina and the US all regularly in the same tournament would garner eyes, investors and media attention. Not exactly a Euros but a closer second compared to what CONMEBOL offers alone. Given that and the expanded qualification #'s and it's probable (IMO) the US would still make regular appearances.


----------



## JJG

GunnerJacket said:


> Well I'm told that part of Frisco is quite the desolate landscape...


To certain parts of the Metroplex, it may as well be.


----------



## krudmonk

5portsF4n said:


> Get a Lazio kit. Same sky blue color without the sponsorship logo. Has a more casual, wear-it-around-town look to it.


But to soccer fans, the Lazio identity carries with it more subtext than a Man City shirt...


----------



## noize

5portsF4n said:


> Get a Lazio kit. Same sky blue color without the sponsorship logo. Has a more casual, wear-it-around-town look to it.


Wow! Very beautiful, despite the fascist history of the club. Recently i bought the Club Brugge shirt, from Belgium, wich is similar to my hometown team jersey, Grêmio FBPA (Club World Champion 1983 and two time Libertadores champion).


Brugge









Grêmio


----------



## stoutekont

Can anyone help me with finding pictures of these stadiums in soccer configuration:

Legion Field
Heinz Field
Alamodome
Lucas Oil Stadium
Safeco Field
PETCO Park
AT&T Park
Minute Maid Park
Rentschler Field
Marlins Park
Navy-Marine Corps Memorial Stadium
Harvard Stadium
Cajun Field


----------



## vanbasten88

krudmonk said:


> But to soccer fans, the Lazio identity carries with it more subtext than a Man City shirt...


you'd be talking about the Fascist undertones of course


----------



## bd popeye

stoutekont said:


> Can anyone help me with finding pictures of these stadiums in soccer configuration:
> 
> Legion Field
> Heinz Field
> Alamodome
> Lucas Oil Stadium
> Safeco Field
> PETCO Park
> AT&T Park
> Minute Maid Park
> Rentschler Field
> Marlins Park
> Navy-Marine Corps Memorial Stadium
> Harvard Stadium
> Cajun Field


I'm not going to do your grunt work for you. Try google or yahoo. Search for each stadium like this;

Petco Park soccer...you should get some results.


----------



## MarkJF

vanbasten88 said:


> you'd be talking about the Fascist undertones of course


Yes, but it is a lovely plain shirt & badge. 

Some nice shirts too in the MLS, the Mexicans seem to be the worst for plastering every available space with advertisements.


----------



## ChesterCopperpot

eMKay said:


> Ok then, I'll tell the dozens of people I know in Ontario that they have been wrong all this time. Got anything else you want to nitpick to death?


I've heard people saying Timmy Ho Ho's hundreds of times - so it isn't just you


----------



## stoutekont

bd popeye said:


> I'm not going to do your grunt work for you. Try google or yahoo. Search for each stadium like this;
> 
> Petco Park soccer...you should get some results.


Yeah I heard of google before 
But even with google it's hard to find some decent pictures of those venues in soccer mode.


----------



## bd popeye

stoutekont said:


> Yeah I heard of google before
> But even with google it's hard to find some decent pictures of those venues in soccer mode.


It is, I know because I looked. You do not see much.


----------



## krudmonk

vanbasten88 said:


> you'd be talking about the Fascist undertones of course


of course!


----------



## GunnerJacket

_*sees last 2 pages. Gets depressed*_

Anyone else desperate for stadium porn from San Jose?


----------



## The Game Is Up

Nothing much to report here but I did read a very interesting article from the NY Daily News:

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...occer-won-coming-queens-pol-article-1.1394221


----------



## SJAnfield

GunnerJacket said:


> *sees last 2 pages. Gets depressed*
> 
> Anyone else desperate for stadium porn from San Jose?


Yes, yes and yes!


----------



## will101

SJAnfield said:


> Yes, yes and yes!


The Quakes are having a great deal of trouble preparing the land for construction. Between FMC leaving behind several underground concrete bunkers and walls, and the unexpectedly high water table, they are falling behind in a hurry.

http://www.sjearthquakes.com/blog/new-stadium


----------



## krudmonk

Yeah, it's looking like a long road trip to start next season...


----------



## GunnerJacket

The Game Is Up said:


> Nothing much to report here but I did read a very interesting article from the NY Daily News:
> 
> http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...occer-won-coming-queens-pol-article-1.1394221


Well that sucks. Was indifferent regarding the site but I hate that everything is back in limbo.


will101 said:


> The Quakes are having a great deal of trouble preparing the land for construction. Between FMC leaving behind several underground concrete bunkers and walls, and the unexpectedly high water table, they are falling behind in a hurry.
> 
> http://www.sjearthquakes.com/blog/new-stadium


Well that REALLY sucks. Nothing fouls up a construction schedule like new discoveries beneath the topsoil.


----------



## stoutekont

I hope MLS will look like this in 2015: New York City, New York Cosmos, Los Angeles Galaxy, Seattle Sounders, Chicago Fire, Toronto FC, Montreal Impact, Vancouver Whitecaps, Portland Timbers, Real Salt Lake, Colorado Rapids, DC United, Philadelphia Union, New England Revolution, Columbus Crew, Orlando City, San Jose Earthquakes, Houston Dynamo, FC Dallas, Sporting Kansas City.


----------



## GunnerJacket

stoutekont said:


> I hope MLS will look like this in 2015: New York City, *New York Cosmos*, Los Angeles Galaxy, Seattle Sounders, Chicago Fire, Toronto FC, Montreal Impact, Vancouver Whitecaps, Portland Timbers, Real Salt Lake, Colorado Rapids, DC United, Philadelphia Union, New England Revolution, Columbus Crew, Orlando City, San Jose Earthquakes, Houston Dynamo, FC Dallas, Sporting Kansas City.


Magic 8 Ball says... _"Not this again! The issue's been resolved. Please move on or I shall be forced to smite thee!"_


----------



## will101

GunnerJacket said:


> Magic 8 Ball says... _"Not this again! The issue's been resolved. Please move on or I shall be forced to smite thee!"_


Go ahead and smite. There isn't enough smiting around here.


----------



## MicroX

What if... Mexican clubs started joining the MLS? Canada did. Why not Mexico?


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^One of the complaints i kept reading is that people hated dealing with the Harrison stop on game days ( to the point most people get off in Newark and walk across the bridge.)

Here's hoping that makes the game day experience a little more fan friendly, and finally spurs some development around the stadium. A few bars and restaurants to start the evening of soccer right perhaps?

Side note too: here's hoping they eventually build the PATH extension to Newark airport as well.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Archbishop said:


> In 2010, 23.2% of MLS fans were Hispanic.
> 
> http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/...mong-Major-North-American-Sports-Leagues.aspx
> 
> Also noteworthy, a relative majority of MLS fans are in the 18-34 age group.


I found this interview of Jon Miller, president of programming at NBC Sports, very interesting.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/...cts-on-the-networks-Premier-League-debut.html

Quotes of note:



> *You've developed quite a personal affinity for soccer. When and how did that start?*
> 
> I grew up as a traditional football and baseball fan. I played tennis as a kid. I played soccer recreationally with friends. I wasn't very good. I was usually the slowest guy. I would get stuck as a defender or the goalie or something like that. I appreciate and love the game. My kids, Jeff and Robbie, play the game and are good players. The story I tell - and it's true - is this.
> 
> Five or six years ago, when one of my sons was a senior in high school, I would come downstairs early on a Saturday or Sunday morning to kind of quietly sneak out of the house and play golf at 7 or 7:30. I heard a noise in the living room, and there was my 18-year-old son Robbie, on the couch wrapped in a blanket with a hat pulled down over his ears. And he'd be watching the Premier League.
> 
> I would go over and say, "You didn't get home until 2 a.m. What are you doing up at 7:15, 7:30? You guys are supposed to sleep until noon, I thought." And he'd say that Manchester United was playing, or Liverpool. My other son, Jeff, loved Liverpool.
> 
> And then as I would leave the house, I'd see three or four other kids trudging up the walk with their blankets and their hats pulled down, and they'd be on the couch. I would get home from playing golf and they'd still be there.
> 
> I said to myself that there's got to be something to this. I've always said that if you don't learn from your kids you're making a big mistake. But that introduced me. They wouldn't watch other sports. They wouldn't think about watching a baseball game until the postseason. They wouldn't watch their home NFL teams, stuff like that. This was really an eye-opening experience for me.





> We're mindful that this sport has an enormous following. The United States, with 350 million people, is a much different country than it was 10 or 15 years ago. There are people who've come to settle here for whom this is their primary sport. They are looking for someone to serve that need, and to scratch that itch. That's what we're looking to do here.


----------



## will101

350 million? Try 316 million. I'm sorry, but people who cannot count but like to throw inaccurate numbers around lose credibility with me in a hurry. He sounds like an idiot.


----------



## GunnerJacket

The average US citizen can't name their local elected officials beyond chief administrative positions, isn't aware of how much they pay on federal taxes and spends more time watching E! News daily than reads a newspaper. That someone in his position overstated the hyper-generalized number estimating our total population seems pretty casual compared to the true issues of the day, no?


----------



## will101

GunnerJacket said:


> The average US citizen can't name their local elected officials beyond chief administrative positions, isn't aware of how much they pay on federal taxes and spends more time watching E! News daily than reads a newspaper. That someone in his position overstated the hyper-generalized number estimating our total population seems pretty casual compared to the true issues of the day, no?


To me, that level of stupidity in the US *is* the true issue of the day. Have you read Walter Miller's classic novel _A Canticle for Leibowitz_? Stupidity becomes a virtue, and people greet each other as "Good simpleton." It frequently feels like that today. More people can talk at length about Kim Kardashian than Albert Einstein, or even Carl Sagan.


----------



## GunnerJacket

I miss Carl Sagan. Cosmos was such a great program for introducing physics to the world.


----------



## Otto Racecar

will101 said:


> To me, that level of stupidity in the US *is* the true issue of the day. Have you read Walter Miller's classic novel _A Canticle for Leibowitz_? Stupidity becomes a virtue, and people greet each other as "Good simpleton." It frequently feels like that today. More people can talk at length about Kim Kardashian than Albert Einstein, or even Carl Sagan.


I would be willing to bet that the President of programming for NBC Sports is not a mere simpleton with or without a mistake in regards to the population of the United States.


----------



## ASupertall4SD

will101 said:


> 350 million? Try 316 million. I'm sorry, but people who cannot count but like to throw inaccurate numbers around lose credibility with me in a hurry. He sounds like an idiot.


316 Million? Try 316,496,215. I'm sorry, but people who cannot count but like to throw around lose credibility with me in a hurry. 

Who is really the one who sounds like an idiot. Id lean toward it being you.


----------



## Lumbergo

Mods - please, can we have a dislike button added?


----------



## The Game Is Up

*Clarke seeks slice of soccer team for Orange taxpayers*
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-orange-county-soccer-stadium-20130820,0,7962206.story


----------



## SVB28

Sporting KC CEO Robb Heineman is doing an AMA on reddit right now.

I asked him a couple questions about the stadium that I found interesting, here are the links

He said ~28k is the highest capacity Sporting Park could get to
http://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/comment...man_sporting_club_ceo_ask_me_anything/cbsi6f9

and that in the next expansion there would be about 8,000 seats added, mostly to the east stand
http://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/comment...man_sporting_club_ceo_ask_me_anything/cbshyze


----------



## master_klon

^^ I saw that a few comments mention that after Sporting Park hosts a music festival in three weeks, they will install a blue turf :weird:


----------



## SJAnfield

master_klon said:


> ^^ I saw that a few comments mention that after Sporting Park hosts a music festival in three weeks, they will install a blue turf :weird:


If its what I think they're referring to, its more of a blue tarp. Its meant to protect the playing surface and take the brunt of the abuse. I know Spartan Stadium and the SJSU Events Center have used similar giant blue tarp coverings during concerts.


----------



## SVB28

He's just trolling people about the turf haha


----------



## master_klon

SVB28 said:


> He's just trolling people about the turf haha


Haha, good to hear it is only a joke.


----------



## SJAnfield

Damn. Thought they were talking about something else. Fooled by the troll.


----------



## carnifex2005

SVB28 said:


> Sporting KC CEO Robb Heineman is doing an AMA on reddit right now.
> 
> I asked him a couple questions about the stadium that I found interesting, here are the links
> 
> He said ~28k is the highest capacity Sporting Park could get to
> http://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/comment...man_sporting_club_ceo_ask_me_anything/cbsi6f9
> 
> and that in the next expansion there would be about 8,000 seats added, mostly to the east stand
> http://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/comment...man_sporting_club_ceo_ask_me_anything/cbshyze


Good questions to ask. Certainly set the SKC fans a buzz. No one really knew what the max possible capacity of Sporting Park was.


----------



## The Game Is Up

*The coming fight over soccer stadium plan*
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...06c426-0aa0-11e3-9941-6711ed662e71_story.html


----------



## GunnerJacket

The Game Is Up said:


> *The coming fight over soccer stadium plan*
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...06c426-0aa0-11e3-9941-6711ed662e71_story.html


Truly the Nationals Stadium deal (100% publicly funded) will rank among the worst of all time and I will always root for that franchise to fail for expressly that reason. Thus I understand where the skeptics are coming from and would prefer the District be on the hook for even less than United is asking. Hopefully the parties can find a resolution both proper and soon.


----------



## Topher51

GunnerJacket said:


> Truly the Nationals Stadium deal (100% publicly funded) will rank among the worst of all time and I will always root for that franchise to fail for expressly that reason. Thus I understand where the skeptics are coming from and would prefer the District be on the hook for even less than United is asking. Hopefully the parties can find a resolution both proper and soon.


The reason why the stadium was 100% publically funded is because MLB owned the team at the time. There was no privite owner to contribute to the cause and the city was competing against other cities and the DC suburbs to the be home of the Expos. The group with the best deal for MLB was going to win the team.

Generally speaking, stadiums may not be the best way to invest public money, but at least in DC, it was worked very well. The Chinatown area was desolate before Verizon Center was built and now, it is arguably the most vibrant part of town. There area where Nats Park has been completely transformed since the stadium was built and I have no doubt that the soccer stadium/riverfront redevelopment will do the same. 

I believe this is the first time I have disagreed with you on something, Gunner. Feels odd.


----------



## Topher51

Odd timing that I found this article right after my previous post. 

http://tracking.si.com/2013/08/27/report-washington-d-c-aiming-to-make-bid-for-2024-olympics/?sct=hp_t2_a4&eref=sihp

What's $150 million when the city is aiming to spend "$4 to $6 billion" hosting the Olympics?


----------



## GunnerJacket

Topher51 said:


> I believe this is the first time I have disagreed with you on something, Gunner. Feels odd.


Don't let it happen again! :tongue2:

As someone in city planning, to say nothing of an avid sportsfan, I certainly understand where you're coming from. I wish the Monumental Core plan from 1995 had been the shape of remaking that area but I agree the stadium has spurred some positive change. However, the counterpoint is not only the marginal returns depending on calculations but most importantly the precedent established: Nationals Park simply reinforces the idea that such huge, private stadia should be publicly financed to degrees unheard of for other developments. That I don't like because for every success story at redevelopment there are arguably 3-4 failures. 

Make no mistake, MLB wanted to be in DC and preferably in the urban core. They would've taken some compromises to make that work compared to a generic suburb, and by most accounts agreed to something close to a 50/50 split. That DC felt compelled to go beyond that, let alone find other governments willing to do the same, is a reflection of our sad political reality.


Topher51 said:


> Odd timing that I found this article right after my previous post.
> 
> http://tracking.si.com/2013/08/27/report-washington-d-c-aiming-to-make-bid-for-2024-olympics/?sct=hp_t2_a4&eref=sihp
> 
> What's $150 million when the city is aiming to spend "$4 to $6 billion" hosting the Olympics?


Interesting. DC would make a great host city, and hopefully a stadium for United could fit right in with those plans for field hockey and/or soccer.


----------



## carnifex2005

*New Major League Soccer Team Eyeing Arena Near Yankee Stadium
*

In its search for a home in New York City, a new Major League Soccer team is eyeing a promising new candidate: the site of a financially struggling parking garage built for Yankee Stadium.

The forthcoming New York City Football Club is in discussions with the Bronx Parking Development Co.—a nonprofit group that runs five parking garages by the ballpark—to raze a 2,411-space parking garage on East 153rd Street in the Bronx and put a 25,000 to 30,000-seat stadium in its place, according to people involved with the discussions. The parking company is eager to find a new use for the facility that would bring in cash. And the soccer team has been drawn to the site for its many advantages, including proximity to subways, a Metro North station and a well-established neighbor in the 50,287-seat Yankee Stadium, people involved said.

The talks are in early stages. The New York City Football Club is considering multiple locations for a stadium, including a Queens-based site in Flushing Meadows-Corona Park the team had initially favored until financial and political obstacles proved more challenging than expected. The team, which hopes to start up in 2015 in a temporary home, is owned principally by England’s Manchester City Football Club in a partnership with the New York Yankees, which is assisting in the search.

The potential deal has numerous complexities that could prove challenging, including closing down a city street and striking simultaneous deals with private landowners, city officials, the Yankees and investors tied to the parking company, the people said.

“We’re still looking at four or five sites, in Queens, Brooklyn and the Bronx–the 153rd Street site is one of two that we’re looking at in the Bronx,” said Randy Levine, the Yankees president, who has been involved in finding a site for a soccer stadium. “It’s all at this point very preliminary.”

A spokeswoman for New York City Football Club said “everything is on the table until we make a decision.”

The move comes as the parking garages by the stadium are under great fiscal strains and are searching for a way out.

The Bronx Parking Development group was formed in 2007 as part of a larger deal between city officials and the Yankees to build a new stadium and expand well-used parking garages substantially to hold more than 9,000 spaces up from about 6,500. Funded by $237 million in tax-exempt bonds, the group expected a surge of new users with the new stadium, and built three new garages and left two existing garages.

But initial projections proved over exuberant, as higher prices, a new Metro North commuter rail stop and a new parking garage at a nearby mall owned by Related Cos. led to cavernous garages filled with unused parking spaces.

Game-day occupancy often runs in the mid 30% and mid-40% range—well below the 88% projected before the new garages were built—giving the Bronx Parking group an $4.8 million in expected operating income for 2013, well below the $14 million in required debt payments, according to bond documents.

The organization defaulted on its debt last year, and now it is trying to win concessions from bondholders, having hired bankruptcy attorneys at Willkie Farr & Gallagher and a restructuring advisor, Edward Moran, to assist in the effort.


----------



## JJG

carnifex2005 said:


> *New Major League Soccer Team Eyeing Arena Near Yankee Stadium
> *
> 
> In its search for a home in New York City, a new Major League Soccer team is eyeing a promising new candidate: the site of a financially struggling parking garage built for Yankee Stadium.
> 
> The forthcoming New York City Football Club is in discussions with the Bronx Parking Development Co.—a nonprofit group that runs five parking garages by the ballpark—to raze a 2,411-space parking garage on East 153rd Street in the Bronx and put a 25,000 to 30,000-seat stadium in its place, according to people involved with the discussions. The parking company is eager to find a new use for the facility that would bring in cash. And the soccer team has been drawn to the site for its many advantages, including proximity to subways, a Metro North station and a well-established neighbor in the 50,287-seat Yankee Stadium, people involved said.
> 
> The talks are in early stages. The New York City Football Club is considering multiple locations for a stadium, including a Queens-based site in Flushing Meadows-Corona Park the team had initially favored until financial and political obstacles proved more challenging than expected. The team, which hopes to start up in 2015 in a temporary home, is owned principally by England’s Manchester City Football Club in a partnership with the New York Yankees, which is assisting in the search.
> 
> The potential deal has numerous complexities that could prove challenging, including closing down a city street and striking simultaneous deals with private landowners, city officials, the Yankees and investors tied to the parking company, the people said.
> 
> “We’re still looking at four or five sites, in Queens, Brooklyn and the Bronx–the 153rd Street site is one of two that we’re looking at in the Bronx,” said Randy Levine, the Yankees president, who has been involved in finding a site for a soccer stadium. “It’s all at this point very preliminary.”
> 
> A spokeswoman for New York City Football Club said “everything is on the table until we make a decision.”
> 
> The move comes as the parking garages by the stadium are under great fiscal strains and are searching for a way out.
> 
> The Bronx Parking Development group was formed in 2007 as part of a larger deal between city officials and the Yankees to build a new stadium and expand well-used parking garages substantially to hold more than 9,000 spaces up from about 6,500. Funded by $237 million in tax-exempt bonds, the group expected a surge of new users with the new stadium, and built three new garages and left two existing garages.
> 
> But initial projections proved over exuberant, as higher prices, a new Metro North commuter rail stop and a new parking garage at a nearby mall owned by Related Cos. led to cavernous garages filled with unused parking spaces.
> 
> Game-day occupancy often runs in the mid 30% and mid-40% range—well below the 88% projected before the new garages were built—giving the Bronx Parking group an $4.8 million in expected operating income for 2013, well below the $14 million in required debt payments, according to bond documents.
> 
> The organization defaulted on its debt last year, and now it is trying to win concessions from bondholders, having hired bankruptcy attorneys at Willkie Farr & Gallagher and a restructuring advisor, Edward Moran, to assist in the effort.


... is there room for that? 

WITHOUT tearing down any residential buildings?


----------



## carnifex2005

JJG said:


> ... is there room for that?
> 
> WITHOUT tearing down any residential buildings?


No but they wouldn't have to tear down any residential buildings. They would have to close East 153 St. and then buy that light industrial brown building just north of the parking lot. That would be enough room for a 30k stadium then.


----------



## ielag

FC Dallas looking to add a roof over the seats, as well as more suites and club seats to their stadium. 

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...-adding-shaded-portions-stadium-expanding-sea


----------



## slipperydog

ielag said:


> FC Dallas looking to add a roof over the seats, as well as more suites and club seats to their stadium.
> 
> http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...-adding-shaded-portions-stadium-expanding-sea


Jerry Jones should buy the team and build a stadium at Reunion Arena.


----------



## GunnerJacket

ielag said:


> FC Dallas looking to add a roof over the seats, as well as more suites and club seats to their stadium.
> 
> http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...-adding-shaded-portions-stadium-expanding-sea


That would be nice. The heat is the most common complaint I've heard after the location, so this might give them a little boost and add character to the stadium in the process.


----------



## JJG

slipperydog said:


> Jerry Jones should buy the team and build a stadium at Reunion Arena.


Hmm... :colbert:


----------



## slipperydog

Just an idea, but putting it down there would make it close for the younger crowd living in Uptown. I mentioned Jones because of this tweet earlier today from the soccer editor at the NY Times.

JackBell ‏@JackBell

Cowboys and FCD doing some work together. I also hear that Mr. Jerry Jones might, just might be interested in becoming an MLS owner! Hmmm.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Recent stuff concerning the Cosmos' stadium plan: http://www.newsli.com/2013/08/09/new-york-cosmos-submit-proposal-for-400-million-elmont-stadium/
http://www.empireofsoccer.com/decis...ins-hints-cosmos-stadium-bid-near-award-date/
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/queens/pitch-soccer-clinics-queens-kids-article-1.1438521

Also, more on the NYCFC Bronx rumors:


> It will not be easy for the club to put the Bronx site together. Sitting on the parcel under consideration is a parking garage for Yankee Stadium that is run by a troubled nonprofit, the Bronx Parking Development Company. In April, the company defaulted on a $237 million civic bond.
> 
> The soccer club would have to strike a deal with the parking company that would compensate it for the garage and put it on more solid financial footing.
> 
> The club would also have to acquire the land currently occupied by a highway ramp and a 100,000-square-foot factory, GAL Manufacturing Corporation, a family-owned business that makes elevator components and employs 225 people. Bronx officials do not want to lose a major employer. According to one person who has been briefed on the talks but was not authorized to discuss them, the soccer club has offered to build GAL a new factory elsewhere in the Bronx.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/30/n...al-would-give-the-yankees-a-new-neighbor.html

Another article: http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/08...ball-clubs-home-might-be-in-yankees-backyard/

http://i.imgur.com/I4Zwfs5.png


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^ I guess if any city is populous and wealthy enough to support 3 soccer franchises, it would be NYC. But I want to see NYCFC succeed and the Red bulls stay afloat (even prosper more than they have been) and fill out the league with a few more teams elsewhere (Orlando, Atlanta, San Antonio, Miami, etc) before we start talking a 3rd New York franchise. 

That being said, cosmos in flushing, city in the bronx, and red bull in jersey isn't a bad distribution.


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## krudmonk

I thought Cascadia hated Ultras.


----------



## The Game Is Up

*N.Y. Yankees President Levine Calls Partnership With Man City 'A Good Combination'*

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/...Franchises/Yankees-Man-City-Randy-Levine.aspx


----------



## barberbor

Do not know the venue look like complete


----------



## Nexis




----------



## slipperydog

USC finally gained control over the Coliseum and Sports Arena.



> U_SC officials say they will begin plans to return the Coliseum to the condition that made it the home of two Olympic Games and two Super Bowls in the coming years. The deal calls for USC to pay the state $1 million in annual rent. That figure will rise to $1.3 million in 2016 and will be adjusted for inflation after that.
> 
> *The university also takes over control of the Sports Arena and has already looked into tearing down the 54-year old facility and developing a 22,000-seat soccer stadium that could house a Major League Soccer team*._


http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/coll...c-takes-control-los-angeles-memorial-coliseum


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

Hallelujah! About time the deal was finalized. 

Ideally, the sports arena replacement SSS would be for Chivas and the Galaxy would play in Downtown LA in a 35,000 seater


----------



## carnifex2005

Here's a story from Empire of Soccer on if a stadium in the Bronx would work. If the GAL factory is bought, this is what the current Red Bull Arena would look like if on the proposed site.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Not sure of anything, of course, but this looks very promising. Metro-North is right there for those people living in the suburbs. Just a couple of block from the local subway stop. There's even shopping at the malls to the south of that site if one is inclined to before a match. If it happens, there's also potential for footy-themed establishments to pop up in the area.

Not stadium-related but Dan Hunt thinks MLS can get a nice bump in their next TV contract: http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...ging-mls-tv-contract-could-be-closer-it-seems


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> USC finally gained control over the Coliseum and Sports Arena.
> 
> http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/coll...c-takes-control-los-angeles-memorial-coliseum


Interesting choice of words regarding the coliseum. "Taking it back" isn't exactly what's needed.

As to the soccer stadium, if it helps the MLS I'm all for it. 


LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> Ideally, the sports arena replacement SSS would be for Chivas and the Galaxy would play in Downtown LA in a 35,000 seater


How well would that part of town adopt Chivas? Does that area feature a larger Latino presence?


carnifex2005 said:


> Here's a story from Empire of Soccer on if a stadium in the Bronx would work. If the GAL factory is bought, this is what the current Red Bull Arena would look like if on the proposed site.


Hmm. That's an awfully tight fit, and given the price of land around there I'd be surprised if they put themselves in a position where ~25k is the long-term max capacity.


The Game Is Up said:


> Not stadium-related but Dan Hunt thinks MLS can get a nice bump in their next TV contract: http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...ging-mls-tv-contract-could-be-closer-it-seems


I cringe every time someone with influence infers that soccer will someday catch/approach/pass the popularity of other pro team sports in the US and Canada. While obviously possible such language feeds into the urban myth of soccer fans as delusional. Just keep touting the realistic growth and movement in the right direction. That's all that matters.

He's correct, though, in needing to establish not only stable game times but also the need for more of those games to be in prime TV spots on major networks. The inconsistency of Saturday evening slots and absence of daytime slots many Saturdays is killing them.


----------



## slipperydog

GunnerJacket said:


> How well would that part of town adopt Chivas? Does that area feature a larger Latino presence?


There are Latinos everywhere in LA. Chivas is a Mexican brand though, not a Latino one. But a stadium built at the Sports Arena would allow them to use public transport. It would certainly be more accessible. Almost any location would be better than Carson.


----------



## carnifex2005

GunnerJacket said:


> Hmm. That's an awfully tight fit, and given the price of land around there I'd be surprised if they put themselves in a position where ~25k is the long-term max capacity.


True and NYCFC want to build a 30k stadium at the site. That being said, there are rumours that the highway exit is being slated to be moved anyways. If that is the case, all that needs to be done is for the stadium to be turned around 45 degrees and then there will be plenty of room for expansion.


----------



## larsul

Nexis said:


>


I want the green suit from the guy that appearson minute 1:42 jajaja


----------



## slipperydog

new sponsor for FC Dallas stadium...sounds familiar for some reason?


----------



## carnifex2005

slipperydog said:


> new sponsor for FC Dallas stadium...sounds familiar for some reason?


The new name joins Toyota Park in Chicago and Toyota Field in San Antonio as the 3rd soccer specific stadium sponsored by Toyota. Toyota also has Toyota Center in Houston, the home of the Houston Rockets.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Working hard to get their name out there. Because, you know, noone has ever heard of Toyota.


----------



## KingmanIII

Toyota Park
Toyota Field
Toyota Center
Toyota Stadium

AT&T Park
AT&T Center
AT&T Stadium

American Airlines Center
American Airlines Arena

Rogers Centre
Rogers Arena

Centurylink Field
Centurylink Center

Target Field
Target Center
(connected via Target Plaza)

Verizon Center
Verizon Arena
Verizon Wireless Center
Verizon Wireless Arena

o2 (Dublin)
o2 Arena (London)
o2 Arena (Prague)
o2 World (Berlin)
o2 World (Hamburg)

Etihad Stadium (Manchester)
Etihad Stadium (Melbourne)


----------



## Lumbergo

don't forget about all the allianz bullshit too.


----------



## Kerrybai

KingmanIII said:


> Toyota Park
> Toyota Field
> Toyota Center
> Toyota Stadium
> 
> AT&T Park
> AT&T Center
> AT&T Stadium
> 
> American Airlines Center
> American Airlines Arena
> 
> Rogers Centre
> Rogers Arena
> 
> Centurylink Field
> Centurylink Center
> 
> Target Field
> Target Center
> (connected via Target Plaza)
> 
> Verizon Center
> Verizon Arena
> Verizon Wireless Center
> Verizon Wireless Arena
> 
> o2 (Dublin)
> o2 Arena (London)
> o2 Arena (Prague)
> o2 World (Berlin)
> o2 World (Hamburg)
> 
> Etihad Stadium (Manchester)
> Etihad Stadium (Melbourne)


Allianz Arena Munich
Allianz Arena Sydney
Allianz Rivera Nice
Allianz Park Saracens


----------



## KingmanIII

^^ Allianz Parque (São)


----------



## isaidso

Talks under way about altering Toronto's BMO Field to accommodate football. The Toronto Argonauts have secured a 5 year extension at Skydome, but are looking for a new home. BMO is a little too small at 20,000 seats so a move there would require adding capacity, but also moving soccer seats behind the goal further back.

The plan would entail building stands in the end zones that can be moved forward for soccer. A soccer pitch is approximately 100 yards long, while a football field with end zones is 150 yards.


----------



## Lumbergo

would this be the first case of MLS where an MLS team is the primary tenant?


----------



## master_klon

Oh, Toronto FC. Just when you think it can't get any worse. hno:


----------



## eMKay

I think Crew Stadium is completely full of Sams Army, and American Outlaws (plus a good amount of Mexican fans) It's amazing


----------



## isaidso

Lumbergo said:


> would this be the first case of MLS where an MLS team is the primary tenant?


I think they play football at Houston's soccer stadium and it happens at another MLS stadium in the US.


----------



## isaidso

master_klon said:


> Oh, Toronto FC. Just when you think it can't get any worse. hno:


How would it be worse if they have stands that move back and forth? They'd also be getting more seats. From a soccer point of view the only big potential negative is losing the grass. I'm not sure why the Argonauts couldn't play on grass though. They did for most of the last 140 years.


----------



## Archbishop

Kerrybai said:


> Allianz Arena Munich
> Allianz Arena Sydney
> Allianz Rivera Nice
> Allianz Park Saracens


The New Meadowlands Stadium was going to be called Allianz Stadium before backlash from local fans and Jewish groups due to the Nazi history of the company forced them to back out of the deal.


----------



## JJG

KingmanIII said:


> Toyota Park
> Toyota Field
> Toyota Center
> Toyota Stadium
> 
> AT&T Park
> AT&T Center
> AT&T Stadium
> 
> American Airlines Center
> American Airlines Arena
> 
> Rogers Centre
> Rogers Arena
> 
> Centurylink Field
> Centurylink Center
> 
> Target Field
> Target Center
> (connected via Target Plaza)
> 
> Verizon Center
> Verizon Arena
> Verizon Wireless Center
> Verizon Wireless Arena
> 
> o2 (Dublin)
> o2 Arena (London)
> o2 Arena (Prague)
> o2 World (Berlin)
> o2 World (Hamburg)
> 
> Etihad Stadium (Manchester)
> Etihad Stadium (Melbourne)


You forgot...

Reliant Stadium
Reliant Astrodome
Reliant Arena
Reliant Center

... all located within Reliant Park in Houston.


----------



## The Game Is Up

*DC United owner, Washington dignitaries sign labor agreement to get proposed stadium built on time*

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...s-sign-project-labor-agreement-proposed-stadi


----------



## WesTexas

Toyota Stadium (FC Dallas) is used for allot of high school football games and the NCAA Division 1 small school championship football game.


----------



## bd popeye

Entire article is in the link.... and a video.

*USA beats Mexico 2 nil before 24,584 in Columbus OH*



> Anyone care to samba?
> 
> The United States punched its ticket to next year’s World Cup in Brazil last night, defeating Mexico by a score of — what else? — 2-0 in a World Cup qualifier in a packed and partisan Crew Stadium.
> 
> A goal early in the second half by U.S. forward Eddie Johnson helped the Americans improve to 5-2-1 in the final round of CONCACAF regional qualifying and, coupled with a Honduras tie with Panama later last night, ensured the Americans will advance to Brazil for a seventh consecutive World Cup.
> 
> Johnson scored on a header off a corner kick by Landon Donovan. Donovan, the Major League Soccer star with the Los Angeles Galaxy who a three-month hiatus from the sport and considered retirement last winter, is perhaps Mexico’s greatest nemesis.
> 
> He made it 2-0 in the 78th minute, converting a cross by Mix Diskerud that Clint Dempsey slightly redirected toward the all-time U.S. scoring leader at the far post.
> 
> Donovan recorded the 57th goal and 57th assist of his U.S. career. It was his sixth goal in 16 games against Mexico, a team he flummoxed four years ago during a 2009 qualifier in Crew Stadium.
> 
> A sold-out crowd of 24,584 — about 90 percent of them U.S. fans — chanted and drummed their way through high temperatures and humidity. It was 90 degrees at kickoff.


----------



## bd popeye

Home video of the USA Vs. El Tri match..a little foul language may be heard.


----------



## slipperydog

Dolphins owner Stephen Ross seriously looking at MLS

http://wvhooligan.com/2013/09/11/17434/dolphins-owner-stephen-ross-enters-mls-expansion-game/


----------



## GunnerJacket

The Game Is Up said:


> *DC United owner, Washington dignitaries sign labor agreement to get proposed stadium built on time*
> 
> http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...s-sign-project-labor-agreement-proposed-stadi


Wonderful. Keep inching towards the reality of this vision! 

How wonderful will it be to someday soon consider that the likes of Crew Stadium and the cavernous Gillette will be considered the _worst_ stadiums in MLS?!!


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> Dolphins owner Stephen Ross seriously looking at MLS
> 
> http://wvhooligan.com/2013/09/11/17434/dolphins-owner-stephen-ross-enters-mls-expansion-game/


I'm guessing it's lip service or preliminary considerations, either of which is aimed at making Dolphins Stadium more politically friendly. He'll talk the talk and release some drawings of the revised venue with the upper sections roofed/tarped off, showing how it would be a great venue of about 25k, thus giving the public all the more reason to spend tax dollars on the project!

One man's opinion, of course.


----------



## slipperydog

GunnerJacket said:


> I'm guessing it's lip service or preliminary considerations, either of which is aimed at making Dolphins Stadium more politically friendly. He'll talk the talk and release some drawings of the revised venue with the upper sections roofed/tarped off, showing how it would be a great venue of about 25k, thus giving the public all the more reason to spend tax dollars on the project!
> 
> One man's opinion, of course.


Possibly. But the connection to David Beckham is what makes me think it might be a little more than lip service. I have no doubts that the two have at least spoken.


----------



## GunnerJacket

I think so as well but wanted to cover my rear seeing as Becks also talked with other prospective owners.

If the lower bowl was indeed full I wouldn't exactly poo-poo the situation. Same with Gillette. There's a lot to be said about the packaging and the application of the product.


----------



## derzberb

why is columbus' stadium rated so bad here?

i really like it


----------



## GunnerJacket

derzberb said:


> why is columbus' stadium rated so bad here?
> 
> i really like it


Not that it's bad, per se, but it is decidedly bare bones compared to its modern MLS peers. Bleachers instead of seats, limited concession areas, etc. That's why the owner is already planning for a new venue or major renovation.

The general bowl seems fine by all accounts, and the place obviously rocks when full and you don't really see the stage. But I've also heard that it's pretty basic behind the scenes and there's little in the way of amenities and luxuries to draw in more money for the club.


----------



## slipperydog

Has Major League Soccer already decided on three more expansion teams? Don Garber says yes.

http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/...n-2020-orando-miami-david-beckham-don-garber/


----------



## Otto Racecar

eMKay said:


> I think Crew Stadium is completely full of Sams Army, and American Outlaws (plus a good amount of Mexican fans) It's amazing


Honestly as some one who attended the game I would have to say this is by far the least amount of mexican fans who have ever attended a US-Mexico match. I would say the ratio was probably around 90-10 if not better in support of the US. The USSF, American Outlaws, and the Columbus Crew did an amazing job of selling tickets to only US supporters and weeding out scalpers. In fact, the ratio would probably have been even better if they had actually sold a larger allotment to the Columbus Supporters Groups instead of putting a portion of the tickets into a lottery for the general public.


----------



## Guest

derzberb said:


> why is columbus' stadium rated so bad here?
> 
> i really like it


Simple, it's rarely sold out. Those bleachers are easy to hide in a full stadium. But it is the oldest SSS so it gets some slack. 



slipperydog said:


> Has Major League Soccer already decided on three more expansion teams? Don Garber says yes.
> 
> http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/...n-2020-orando-miami-david-beckham-don-garber/


Orlando, Beckham FC and the third winner is? I'm still holding out for Minneapolis. Do it Zygi. But Sacramento, San Antonio, Atlanta would all have to be in the mix.


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^Orlando, Miami, and San Antonio. Stadium already built with upgrade plane in place. Successful run in NASL, etc...


----------



## Guest

BoulderGrad said:


> ^^Orlando, Miami, and San Antonio. Stadium already built with upgrade plane in place. Successful run in NASL, etc...


No argument there. 3 teams in Texas is fine, but just on a personal level I'd like to see another team in the Midwest first, whether thats Minn, Detroit, Indi or St Louis I don't really care. Though all of those have stadium issues that would need to be sorted out.

It's kind of funny though that if we did get 3 Texas teams, the one remaining major market (Austin) would probably be the most ideal place for an MLS team of all four big cities in Texas.


----------



## GunnerJacket

I'm still not sold on MLS tapping San Antonio. Don't get me wrong, I bet the team would prosper and by all accounts the owner would do right by the fans and the league. To be sure it's always nice to see Texas represented as more than Houston or Big D.

However, MLS is reaching a saturation point where they need to consider market presence. Existing franchises are stable and the financial model has been established. All that remains is increasing national appeal for higher TV revenues, and I don't think MLS would want to surrender 1 of these spots, probably the last expansion slots for a spell, on a third franchise in Texas. Adding San Antonio means not adding other possibly larger markets, not enhancing the league's presence in other parts of the country. From a broadcast and commercial partner perspective which would you rather see in the MLS tables: San Antonio or Phoenix? San Antonio or St. Louis? 

If those other, larger markets aren't ready right now then I'd rather MLS wait to get it right rather then simply fill up their utlimately limited roster space on a first-come, first serve basis. That's why I said it was foolish to say they'd add 4, because there may only be 1-2 candidates truly worthy.

Again, I may be wrong and this is nothing against San Antonio. I simply want MLS to make the right decisions here.


----------



## slipperydog

Another delay has forced San Jose to push back its stadium opening to 2015. Was previously beginning of 2014, then pushed back to July 2014.


----------



## Guest

slipperydog said:


> Another delay has forced San Jose to push back its stadium opening to 2015. Was previously beginning of 2014, then pushed back to July 2014.


No attendance bump from them for 2 seasons hno:


----------



## ielag

slipperydog said:


> Has Major League Soccer already decided on three more expansion teams? Don Garber says yes.
> 
> http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/...n-2020-orando-miami-david-beckham-don-garber/


The person that tweeted that out apparently took it way out of context. Garber's quote was something like (taken from bigsoccer)


> IF they want to expand by 4 teams in one year, then 3 would already be spoken for.
> 
> Then he said that they're not going to do that, and the next couple of years would be for evaluating which are the right markets.


----------



## Kerrybai

5portsF4n said:


> No attendance bump from them for 2 seasons hno:


Indeed that sucks  We need the new stadium to push towards the 19k average. 

Has there been any news latley regarding Chiva's usa? Solving that problem would do wonders for the average attendance.


----------



## slipperydog

Falcons owner Arthur Blank reportedly in "significant discussions" with MLS about expansion

http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/mls-a-step-closer-to-atlanta/nZt3R/


----------



## will101

slipperydog said:


> Another delay has forced San Jose to push back its stadium opening to 2015. Was previously beginning of 2014, then pushed back to July 2014.


I knew that was coming when they started digging up the concrete bunkers and ordinance left behind by FMC. At least this won't be overshadowed by the Niners so much.


----------



## will101

Kerrybai said:


> Indeed that sucks  We need the new stadium to push towards the 19k average.


Have patience. It's coming.


----------



## Guest

slipperydog said:


> Falcons owner Arthur Blank reportedly in "significant discussions" with MLS about expansion
> 
> http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/mls-a-step-closer-to-atlanta/nZt3R/


Well stadium capacity will be almost the same as the Sounders. The location is practically the same. Im not sold though. Though the lower bowl looks perfect for soccer. 

It would just seem weird to give it to Atlanta when there has been much more work going on with other clubs. But a big media market with an owner/new stadium would be difficult to resist.


----------



## slipperydog

Atlanta is a really bad sports town though. It's a big market, but I think a soccer team would really struggle. For the Southeast, MLS is better off looking at smaller niche markets like Nashville and Charlotte. In the Midwest, I'd like to see them look at St. Louis and Minneapolis.


----------



## Guest

slipperydog said:


> Atlanta is a really bad sports town though. It's a big market, but I think a soccer team would really struggle. For the Southeast, MLS is better off looking at smaller niche markets like Nashville and Charlotte. In the Midwest, I'd like to see them look at St. Louis and Minneapolis.


Yeah only the Falcons do well, but its difficult to gauge because they only have 8 games to sell and the team is winning. Braves averaging only 31,000 (63%) despite their strong season. 

Hawks did 80% last season at 15,000. NHL team has gone of course, and their attendances weren't great. 

I'm sure MLS execs know all this stuff, which is why I'm skeptical anything will come of it. If they're going to commit to Miami, it would be a major risk to bring in both Miami and Atlanta. 

Nothing about Atlanta's demographics screams soccer-ready either.


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> Yeah only the Falcons do well, but its difficult to gauge because they only have 8 games to sell and the team is winning. Braves averaging only 31,000 (63%) despite their strong season.


The Braves are outdrawing Cincy, Pittsburgh and Oakland, three teams equally pursuing postseason play. That low percentage has more to do with Turner Field being among the largest stadiums in MLB, as the Braves are currently 15th in the league regarding attendance and are pretty consistent in the 30k range. Hell, the Cardinals didn't sell out playoff games during their last WS run!



> Hawks did 80% last season at 15,000. NHL team has gone of course, and their attendances weren't great.


Look at the history of pro sports in ATL and you'll find a list of abysmal owners and a grand total of 1 championship. We don't have one team that's excelled and rallied the locals a la the Cardinals or Steelers. We didn't have any regional rivals for the longest time. The Hawks and Thrashers owners dragged out their internal lawsuits for years while neglecting the teams and fans. Considering all the years ATL has had pro sports that's a pretty appalling history and doesn't endear extraordinary support, yet the numbers show ATL to be often middle of the pack. Maybe not extraordinary, but hardly poor. Look how many MLB teams are averaging in the teens! Look at what the Rams and Raiders draw! 

And if you're not familiar with how the NHL left the City out to dry while harboring teams with worse attendance and worse financial prospectus then I can't help you.

Atlanta won't be confused with Chicago or Boston as a pro sports town, but this consistent myth about it being a poor pro sports town is growing tiresome. If Atlanta is bad then there are about a dozen more that should be considered worse. 



5portsF4n said:


> It would just seem weird to give it to Atlanta when there has been much more work going on with other clubs.


Besides Orlando and San Antonio who's done "much more work?" Atlanta has the Silverbacks, it has two different MLS to ATL compaigns, it has a wealthy owner actively talking with the league and armed with a stadium proposal, it's hosted international friendlies that drew 50k+, and it has tens of thousands of kids playing the sport in rec leagues. True enough the energy isn't that from places like Portland or Montreal, but it's there.

- - - -

Edit: I want MLS to prosper more than I want a team in ATL, so I'm not going to suggest ATL deserves a team more than other cities or whine if they don't get one. But I don't want MLS to be hasty in their decisions, either, because sooner or later they'll cap the number of teams and they need to be careful in deciding who's in and who's out. Sold-out venues of 20k can only go so far as a financial model. They will eventually need to make the national TV dollars pan out.


----------



## GunnerJacket

will101 said:


> I knew that was coming when they started digging up the concrete bunkers and ordinance left behind by FMC. At least this won't be overshadowed by the Niners so much.


Any talk about possibly playing an Earthquakes game at Levi's stadium someday, like their "derby" with LA? Stanford Stadium has done well but didn't know if this might prove an even more popular option.


----------



## slipperydog

Multiple sources confirm Atlanta is in MLS expansion pole position

http://soccer.si.com/2013/09/13/mls-expansion-team-likely-heading-atlantas-way/


----------



## Topher51

Regarding Atlanta's reputation of being a bad sports town, the Braves have had over2,100,000 in total attendance (often far higher) since 1991. That is hardly a figure to scoff at. Especially considering Turner Field is not accessible by the MARTA, when a lot of stadiums in other big cities are served by the mass transit. 

MLS's goals are not only to expand their brand nationally, but internationally. I have made just as many jokes about the south as anyone on here (I am from there, so I have some ground to stand on), but Atlanta is an internationally recognized city and if MLS wants to one day be looked at as being in the same tier as the EPL and the other big time Euro leagues, they need to be in more cities like Atlanta and Orlando, and less like San Antonio and St. Louis. No offense, because I personally like those cities, but how much top quality talent will a team in a mid-sized American market going to be able to attract? 

I like the idea of the new Falcons stadium having a BC Place-like roof that can drop down to conceal the upper deck. That would look pretty nice. They'd need to figure out a way to not cover up the video boards though.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Topher51 said:


> I like the idea of the new Falcons stadium having a BC Place-like roof that can drop down to conceal the upper deck. That would look pretty nice. They'd need to figure out a way to not cover up the video boards though.


I'm envisioning something that descends from behind the video boards to the rim of the second or third tier, depending on expected crowds. Providing a steep roof/dome effect, but also leaving the corner opening visible to give the place a more airy feeling.


----------



## ielag

GunnerJacket said:


> Any talk about possibly playing an Earthquakes game at Levi's stadium someday, like their "derby" with LA? Stanford Stadium has done well but didn't know if this might prove an even more popular option.


I think it's possible next year if Levi's is finished in time for the fixture. Considering the enormous amount of money Santa Clara has forked over for Levi's, they'll want as many events as possible, and the Quakes can probably make a little bit more money at Levi's than Stanford in terms of tickets sold and possibly concessions. If it's the first ever event at Levi's, that's a guaranteed sell out and get some great media coverage.

But I imagine once the new SJ stadium is built, every SJ game will be there since this is a privately financed stadium.


----------



## GunnerJacket

ielag said:


> Considering the enormous amount of money Santa Clara has forked over for Levi's, they'll want as many events as possible, and the Quakes can probably make a little bit more money at Levi's than Stanford in terms of tickets sold and* possibly concessions*.


This is what I was mainly thinking, because I assume you can't buy alcohol in Stanford Stadium.


> But I imagine once the new SJ stadium is built, every SJ game will be there since this is a privately financed stadium.


If they know they can routinely draw 40-50k or more for the LA game I'd imagine the money is still worthwhile to play that at one of the larger stadiums. It's the most convenient way to accomodate the temporary fans and their extra money, and will ensure the team's profile remains high. And the hope is likely that the rest of the games will be selling out, as well, meaning such big-event games remain a premium experience, too.

We shall see though. I'm just thrilled MLS is moving closer and closer to having no bad stadium situations!


----------



## will101

GunnerJacket said:


> Any talk about possibly playing an Earthquakes game at Levi's stadium someday, like their "derby" with LA? Stanford Stadium has done well but didn't know if this might prove an even more popular option.


I haven't heard or seen anything , but so far the Niners have not met a possible source of revenue that they didn't like.


----------



## slipperydog

will101 said:


> I haven't heard or seen anything , but so far the Niners have not met a possible source of revenue that they didn't like.



The Niners own the stadium?


----------



## will101

slipperydog said:


> The Niners own the stadium?


Technically, no, it belongs to a group called the *Santa Clara Stadium Authority*, a public body separate and distinct from the city, but whose board is made up of city council members and some other local politicos. But the Niners are the exclusive (at the moment) leaseholders, are putting up 100% of the construction costs, and they have dictated 100% of the design.

Basically the local government created a shell corporation so open and transparent that nobody thinks about it. And as long as the Niners keep coming up with all of the money necessary, nobody really complains. So far the Niners have raised $200 million from the NFL, $220.3 million from Levi Strauss & Co., perhaps $50 million from various associate sponsors, and somewhat more than $700 million in PSL fees.

Here's a link on the stadium authority. I hope that you are good at translating legalese: http://santaclaraca.gov/index.aspx?page=1880


----------



## will101

ielag said:


> I think it's possible next year if Levi's is finished in time for the fixture. Considering the enormous amount of money Santa Clara has forked over for Levi's, they'll want as many events as possible, and the Quakes can probably make a little bit more money at Levi's than Stanford in terms of tickets sold and possibly concessions. If it's the first ever event at Levi's, that's a guaranteed sell out and get some great media coverage.
> 
> But I imagine once the new SJ stadium is built, every SJ game will be there since this is a privately financed stadium.


Actually _Santa Clara_ hasn't paid a dime for Levi's, except for stuff like improved water and sewer lines. The Niners are paying every penny of construction.

Edit: sorry, I was going to say that opening the place with a game between the Quakes and Galaxy would be a great idea. I know I'd be there. I just hope that they call out some extra security for the 1906 crowd. Then (at another date) have something like a Paul McCartney concert, and all of the kinks should be dealt with by the time football starts, and with some extra cash in the bank to boot.

So what is the record crowd for an MLS game/match?


----------



## The Game Is Up

Somebody got a hold of a letter sent by MLS to the mayor of San Antonio, dated September 6, and posted a picture of it in a tweet:

https://twitter.com/Crocketteers/status/378664897136979968


Also, some Miami news: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/...n-south-florida-0914-20130913,0,2233804.story


----------



## BoulderGrad

The Game Is Up said:


> Somebody got a hold of a letter sent by MLS to the mayor of San Antonio, dated September 6, and posted a picture of it in a tweet:
> 
> https://twitter.com/Crocketteers/status/378664897136979968
> 
> Also, some Miami news: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/soccer/fl-mls-expansion-south-florida-0914-20130913,0,2233804.story


Well... The magic number was 24, sooo...

21: Atlanta
22: Orlando
23: San Antonio
24: Miami

Hard to dispute that those are the front runners?


----------



## slipperydog

The main point is that the demand for soccer in the US is growing at a rapid rate regardless of what websites people use. Developments on the television side illustrate this plainly.


----------



## The Game Is Up

District, Akridge set ground rules for D.C. United stadium land swap
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...566e50-2584-11e3-b3e9-d97fb087acd6_story.html


----------



## carnifex2005

Interesting survey that MLS sent out to people on their "Soccer United Council" (MLS community relations group)....










Would be shocked if this actually happened.


----------



## GunnerJacket

The Game Is Up said:


> District, Akridge set ground rules for D.C. United stadium land swap


Truly believe this stadium will be another tipping point for the league. If United prosper in their new digs then arguably we should be thisclose to seeing every franchise capable of profit and hosting a proper soccer setting. (The Revs at least not paying rent for Gillette.) 



carnifex2005 said:


> Interesting survey that MLS sent out to people on their "Soccer United Council" (MLS community relations group)....
> 
> Would be shocked if this actually happened.


As would I, and I voted definitely not interested. Maybe someday long into the future, but the further MLS steers from its current course the more likely current momentum and fan support would suffer.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Soccer stadium Q&A: As deal emerges, we have the details
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-soccer-stadium-deal-details-20130927,0,2452540.story


----------



## will101

Meanwhile, the San Jose Earthquakes finally had a ceremonial first pouring of cement for their new stadium yesterday. The link below has a vid and some pix of people smiling for the cameras, and the two cleanest cement mixers on the planet actually pouring some cement.

http://www.sjearthquakes.com/news/2013/09/laying-foundation-new-stadium-concrete-pour-ceremony


----------



## BoulderGrad

will101 said:


> Meanwhile, the San Jose Earthquakes finally had a ceremonial first pouring of cement for their new stadium yesterday. The link below has a vid and some pix of people smiling for the cameras, and the two cleanest cement mixers on the planet actually pouring some cement.
> 
> http://www.sjearthquakes.com/news/2013/09/laying-foundation-new-stadium-concrete-pour-ceremony


List of ceremonies:
-Groundbreaking
-Last munitions removal
-First concrete poured
-First steel piece place
-First Seat installed
-First strip of sod
-First sheet of roof fabric
-Last piece of steel (topping out)
-First fan to enter the stadium
-First kick
-First goal (no, really, they'll stop play for each of these...)


----------



## The Game Is Up

MLSE Looking At Roof For BMO Field, Dismisses Turf Talk
http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/story/?id=432944

MLSE looking at $100M roof for BMO Field
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/mlse-looking-at-100m-roof-for-bmo-field-1.1872030


----------



## Guest

Would be nice if TFC and Argos could team up to improve the stadium on the whole. $100m for a roof seems foolish. But if they do end up doing something, expanding the capacity to something around 30,000 and having two major tenants is the best outcome.

TFC have spent a lot of money on infrastructure already. I think they only finished their training ground within the last year. That team though...


----------



## master_klon

Good luck 

*Orlando City announce crucial votes for new stadium funding to begin next week*

The dates for both the City of Orlando and Orange County Commissioners to vote on the approval of funds for a new downtown, multi-purpose soccer stadium have been finalized. The City will vote on Monday, October 7, and Orange County just two weeks later on Tuesday, October 22. Pending both the City and County approval of the stadium plan, Orlando would be able to enter into final negotiations with MLS to award an expansion team to Central Florida. Both votes will be open to the public. “We are excited as we begin this final step of securing a downtown soccer stadium for the Central Florida area,” said Orlando City President Phil Rawlins. “We encourage all of our fans to call their commissioners to show their support in the upcoming weeks.” The October 7 vote will occur at the City Hall Council Chambers in downtown Orlando. The October 22 vote takes place at the County Administration Building. In early August, the Tourist Development Council (TDC), which includes Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer and Orange County Mayor Teresa Jacobs, unanimously approved a plan that included funding of a multi-purpose soccer stadium. Following the vote, a recommendation was given to the City and County Board of Commissioners, who vote on October 7 and 22, respectively.


----------



## GunnerJacket

One would imagine that whichever way the City goes the County would most likely follow, no? All eyes on Orlando next Monday, then.


----------



## Guest

I'm just going to pretend its not gonna happen, and be pleasantly surprised if it does.


----------



## slipperydog

David Beckham is in the final round of negotiations with backers for his return to Major League Soccer as the owner of a new franchise in Miami, team expected to play at Florida International University.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2439486/David-Beckham-new-MLS-franchise-Miami.html


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> David Beckham is in the final round of negotiations with backers for his return to Major League Soccer as the owner of a new franchise in Miami, team expected to play at Florida International University.
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2439486/David-Beckham-new-MLS-franchise-Miami.html


Not the best of circumstances but hopefully the location is only temporary. I guess FIU's stadium is still better than the old digs in Ft. Lauderdale or trying to make Dolphins Stadium work out. Maybe by the time the team starts playing FIU will actually build out the one short side stand. Still, it seems a remote location and the stadium isn't exactly on the fringe of the campus. Hope their overall business plan can work out.


----------



## master_klon

Aerial view of the new San Jose Stadium


----------



## Calvin W

master_klon said:


> Aerial view of the new San Jose Stadium


Future expansion would look tight on the sight? At least on two sides...


----------



## Kerrybai

Calvin W said:


> Future expansion would look tight on the sight? At least on two sides...


It won't be a problem. They could easily expand the two sides away from the roads and any further expansion would be so far down the line that it's not even worth thinking about.


----------



## will101

Calvin W said:


> Future expansion would look tight on the sight? At least on two sides...


This will be 18,000 seats initially, and if they close off the end to the lower right, that would raise capacity to 23-24,000.*If they need more, like Kerrybai said, they could add to the upper left and right sides, and probably come close to 33,000. And if they still need more than that for a game, then they can call the neighbors about four miles north. Their new home will go up to about 75,000.


----------



## slipperydog

This is the concept site apparently.

http://mia4mls.com/


----------



## WesTexas

Calvin W said:


> Future expansion would look tight on the sight? At least on two sides...


I would like to think that in the future, when they plan on expanding this stadium they wouldnt have a problem building stands over roads. I get the security concern, but thats the one salution i see to adding to allot of stadiums without building a new one.


----------



## SJAnfield

I think a renovated Weingart would be a perfect location for the club, but the track has to go.


----------



## slipperydog

Orlando City stadium close to being official

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...y-soccer-club-soccer-specific-stadium-usl-pro


----------



## Guest

slipperydog said:


> Orlando City stadium close to being official
> 
> http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...y-soccer-club-soccer-specific-stadium-usl-pro


Great news :banana:

Another link: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...occer-stadium-venues-20131004,0,5159977.story


----------



## soup or man

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> Best option for Chivas is CLEARLY East LA. They would definitely draw well there (remember, Chivas was once 2nd in the league in attendance.) Second option would be Exposition Park, but as a Galaxy fan, i would love for the Galaxy to move to Downtown LA


Move the Galaxy next to the Coliseum. Move Chivas to Weingart. Problem solved.


----------



## derzberb

is it a serious proposal to move galaxy to coliseum?

i am confused. is there a running track? will there be a running track if the galaxy moves there?


----------



## ielag

derzberb said:


> is it a serious proposal to move galaxy to coliseum?
> 
> i am confused. is there a running track? will there be a running track if the galaxy moves there?


No not really. There's been rumors of USC tearing down the Sports Arena and building a soccer stadium. However, AEG wouldn't have their team playing long term in a venue they don't own/operate. Also, there's no more running track at the Coliseum.

I do think within the next 5-10 years, there will be something happening with the future home for the Galaxy. The new StubHub naming rights deal is only for 5 years for example. 

Does AEG look into a new plan for the proposed Farmers Field and downsize it to MLS stadium size standards now that the NFL plan is essentially dead? A mini Farmers Field that could still hold conventions that the city would require and host a plethora of other events.


----------



## slipperydog

ielag said:


> Does AEG look into a new plan for the proposed Farmers Field and downsize it to MLS stadium size standards now that the NFL plan is essentially dead? A mini Farmers Field that could still hold conventions that the city would require and host a plethora of other events.


I don't think so. To make the stadium work in conjunction with the convention center and financially, it would have to be an indoor/retractable space, be able to host Final Fours, bowl games, Super Bowls, marquee soccer matches, etc. Not really something that a “downsized” Farmers for the Galaxy would be able to offer. Also, I don't know why people think the NFL plan is dead. Were they expecting shovels in the ground right now? "Less likely" now that the primary architect (Leiweke) is gone, maybe, but "dead"? Hardly.


----------



## ielag

slipperydog said:


> I don't think so. To make the stadium work in conjunction with the convention center and financially, it would have to be an indoor/retractable space, be able to host Final Fours, bowl games, Super Bowls, marquee soccer matches, etc. Not really something that a “downsized” Farmers for the Galaxy would be able to offer. Also, I don't know why people think the NFL plan is dead. Were they expecting shovels in the ground right now? "Less likely" now that the primary architect (Leiweke) is gone, maybe, but "dead"? Hardly.


The NFL has essentially told AEG that they don't see the site being an option. Anschutz was never fully on board with it, hence why Leiweke was fired when rumors came out that the NFL doesn't want the Farmers site. The NFL wants next to Dodger Stadium.

A 35,000 seat retractable roof stadium still could hold all those types of events besides a Super Bowl. City of L.A. wouldn't be flipping the bill, so I doubt they'd still turn that down. The floor space for conventions compared to Farmers really wouldn't be any different either. Of course whether AEG is even thinking of this is another story.


----------



## slipperydog

Final Fours and Super Bowls are mandated to seat 65,000. Hard to see the FIFA or ICC being interested in a 35,000 seat stadium either, plus the Galaxy wouldn't be able to fill that up outside of 'maybe' a couple games per year. I think any stadium on the site is a long shot at this point, but the NFL project is much further along.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

ielag said:


> The NFL has essentially told AEG that they don't see the site being an option. Anschutz was never fully on board with it, hence why Leiweke was fired when rumors came out that the NFL doesn't want the Farmers site. The NFL wants next to Dodger Stadium.
> 
> A 35,000 seat retractable roof stadium still could hold all those types of events besides a Super Bowl. City of L.A. wouldn't be flipping the bill, so I doubt they'd still turn that down. The floor space for conventions compared to Farmers really wouldn't be any different either. Of course whether AEG is even thinking of this is another story.


uhh no. youre not right at all. Farmers is fully approved by the city and is the preferred choice of a location for the NFL. the reason nothing has happened is because a team will not announce a move until the last year of their lease, and now that the rams are able to move, they will. Wait till week 13 - 14 of the NFL season and you will hear more chatter about the Rams moving to Farmers.

Edit: and right on queue.. from the LA Times today...http://www.latimes.com/sports/football/nfl/la-sp-dwyre-nfl-20131010,0,5022222.column#axzz2hGNzklCY


----------



## ChesterCopperpot

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24464440



> *The United States Soccer Federation (USSF) says it would be interested in hosting the World Cup football tournament again.*
> 
> The country last held the event in 1994, in front of sell-out crowds. Since then, the team reached the World Cup quarter-finals in 2002.
> 
> The US, a regular qualifier for the tournament, recently went through to the 2014 competition in Brazil.
> 
> It was one of the losing bidders for the 2022 World Cup.
> 
> The others were South Korea, Japan and Australia.
> 
> "We would be interested in hosting it again - the next one that would be available is 2026," said Sunil Gulati, president of the USSF and a member of Fifa's executive committee.


----------



## carnifex2005

Canada is also on planning to bid for the 2026 WC...

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/10/10/race-canada-continues-plan-bid-2026-world-cup

TORONTO — By the time 2026 rolls around, it will have been 32 years since the CONCACAF region hosted the FIFA World Cup, and according to reports published on Wednesday, the president of the Liga MX believes a joint US-Mexico bid might be just the thing to bring the World Cup back to this part of the globe.

But another North American player already has its sights set on 2026: Canada.

“We’re the only G8 country that hasn’t [been selected to host] a [senior men’s] World Cup,” Canadian Soccer Association president Victor Montagliani told MLSsoccer.com this week. “Also, out of all the tournaments FIFA has, this is the only one that we haven’t [been selected to host.]”

While Montagliani (pictured, at left, with Canadian men's head coach Benito Floro) said there are “a lot of internal discussions yet to have” with various stakeholders, he confirmed – as first reported in July 2012 by CBC Sports – that the CSA is indeed planning to bid for the 2026 World Cup.

Recent events have suggested that Canada might be just the sort of host FIFA will be looking for when the next bidding process begins. The allegations of bribery and corruption in the bidding process for the 2018 and 2022 World Cups, and the reportedly poor human-rights records of both Russia and Qatar, could make voters more likely to consider a country with a less controversial reputation.

Neither Montagliani nor CSA general secretary Peter Montopoli wanted to speculate about what impact current events could have on future bidding processes when asked by MLSsoccer.com. But Montopoli did say that when it comes to Canada, FIFA has so far liked what it’s seen.

“We’re a welcoming country, and FIFA understood that [when considering bids for the 2015 Women’s World Cup],” Montopoli said. “Also, the multicultural mosaic of our country is very inviting to the world. … All we can speak to is what our country is. And if that’s the flavor that the rest of the FIFA member associations decide is inviting, then I guess that would bode well for us.”


----------



## Cjones2451

I saw this too and just can't see Canada having 12 stadiums of 40K plus, even if some of it is tempory seating and having the larger capacity for the openign game and final. The legacy of most of them would be white elephants as CFL and MLS do not need that large of capacity



carnifex2005 said:


> Canada is also on planning to bid for the 2026 WC...
> 
> http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/10/10/race-canada-continues-plan-bid-2026-world-cup
> 
> TORONTO — By the time 2026 rolls around, it will have been 32 years since the CONCACAF region hosted the FIFA World Cup, and according to reports published on Wednesday, the president of the Liga MX believes a joint US-Mexico bid might be just the thing to bring the World Cup back to this part of the globe.
> 
> But another North American player already has its sights set on 2026: Canada.
> 
> “We’re the only G8 country that hasn’t [been selected to host] a [senior men’s] World Cup,” Canadian Soccer Association president Victor Montagliani told MLSsoccer.com this week. “Also, out of all the tournaments FIFA has, this is the only one that we haven’t [been selected to host.]”
> 
> While Montagliani (pictured, at left, with Canadian men's head coach Benito Floro) said there are “a lot of internal discussions yet to have” with various stakeholders, he confirmed – as first reported in July 2012 by CBC Sports – that the CSA is indeed planning to bid for the 2026 World Cup.
> 
> Recent events have suggested that Canada might be just the sort of host FIFA will be looking for when the next bidding process begins. The allegations of bribery and corruption in the bidding process for the 2018 and 2022 World Cups, and the reportedly poor human-rights records of both Russia and Qatar, could make voters more likely to consider a country with a less controversial reputation.
> 
> Neither Montagliani nor CSA general secretary Peter Montopoli wanted to speculate about what impact current events could have on future bidding processes when asked by MLSsoccer.com. But Montopoli did say that when it comes to Canada, FIFA has so far liked what it’s seen.
> 
> “We’re a welcoming country, and FIFA understood that [when considering bids for the 2015 Women’s World Cup],” Montopoli said. “Also, the multicultural mosaic of our country is very inviting to the world. … All we can speak to is what our country is. And if that’s the flavor that the rest of the FIFA member associations decide is inviting, then I guess that would bode well for us.”


----------



## kev_427

Cjones2451 said:


> I saw this too and just can't see Canada having 12 stadiums of 40K plus, even if some of it is tempory seating and having the larger capacity for the openign game and final. The legacy of most of them would be white elephants as CFL and MLS do not need that large of capacity


Current

Montreal, Olympic Stadium - 66,308
Edmonton, Commonwealth Stadium - 56,302
Vancouver, BC Place - 54,320
Toronto, Rogers Centre - 47,563
Calgary, McMahon Stadium - 35,650 (46,020 temp)
Winnipeg, Investors Group Field - 33,422 (40,000 temp)

Future

New Regina Stadium - 33,000 (45,000 temp)
New Ottawa Stadium - 24,000 (45,000 temp)
Hamilton, Tim Hortons Field - 22,500 (40,000 temp)

That leaves three more, some possibilities are a new Toronto CFL stadium, new Quebec City stadium, new Montreal stadium/Molson Stadium expansion, new Toronto Olympic/NFL stadium, Moncton Stadium/new Halifax stadium, or longshots like Victoria, Saskatoon, London/Kitchener.


----------



## CaliforniaJones

kev_427 said:


> Current
> 
> *Montreal, Olympic Stadium - 66,308*
> Edmonton, Commonwealth Stadium - 56,302
> Vancouver, BC Place - 54,320
> Toronto, Rogers Centre - 47,563
> Calgary, McMahon Stadium - 35,650 (46,020 temp)
> Winnipeg, Investors Group Field - 33,422 (40,000 temp)
> 
> Future
> 
> New Regina Stadium - 33,000 (45,000 temp)
> New Ottawa Stadium - 24,000 (45,000 temp)
> Hamilton, Tim Hortons Field - 22,500 (40,000 temp)
> 
> That leaves three more, some possibilities are a new Toronto CFL stadium, new Quebec City stadium, new Montreal stadium/Molson Stadium expansion, new Toronto Olympic/NFL stadium, Moncton Stadium/new Halifax stadium, or longshots like Victoria, Saskatoon, London/Kitchener.


I visited The Olympic stadium in montreal. It would need huge renovation to respect FIFA standards and have a modern face.

One important issue is legacy for many stadiums in Canada. They must avoid white éléphants.


----------



## Guest

Canada wouldn't really have a chance against us. Mexico trying to latch onto an American bid is humorous.


----------



## eMKay

Qatar didn't have a chance against us either did it? LOL! Anyway, A joint US-Canadian bid would be pretty cool I think.


----------



## BlazerBlaze

eMKay said:


> Qatar didn't have a chance against us either did it? LOL! Anyway, A joint US-Canadian bid would be pretty cool I think.


Yeah and look how that decision is turning out. Come's to be that they can't actually control the weather by making clouds, or make all of the stadiums a/c'd.


----------



## carnifex2005

CaliforniaJones said:


> I visited The Olympic stadium in montreal. It would need huge renovation to respect FIFA standards and have a modern face.
> 
> One important issue is legacy for many stadiums in Canada. They must avoid white éléphants.


Well it is 2026, so there is plenty of time for any refurbishments. With the CFL and money put into high end temp seating, there won't be many stadiums that will be white elephants. Now, the big thing will be the showcase stadium in Toronto. If an 80k stadium is built that will essentially signal that an NFL team will be using it right after the World Cup is over. Of course, Toronto may get the Olympics which will make the need for a new stadium moot.


----------



## kerouac1848

Also note that the current rules allow for 10 stadiums, which is how many South Africa and I believe France used. Both also had 9 host cities I think. Unless the WC is expanded I doubt that requirement will change, although FIFA might up the minimum capacity from 40k.


----------



## joezierer

eMKay said:


> Qatar didn't have a chance against us either did it? LOL! Anyway, A joint US-Canadian bid would be pretty cool I think.


Money talks.


----------



## Riise

kev_427 said:


> That leaves three more, some possibilities are a new Toronto CFL stadium, new Quebec City stadium, new Montreal stadium/Molson Stadium expansion, new Toronto Olympic/NFL stadium, Moncton Stadium/new Halifax stadium, or longshots like Victoria, Saskatoon, London/Kitchener.


Another possibility is Calgary getting a new stadium. If a new stadium was able to be built in Calgary, it would most likely be located in Central Calgary and would not require the immediate demolition of McMahon. If it was timed correctly, Calgary could have two stadiums large enough for matches.


----------



## SVB28

A United States-Canada or United States-Mexico joint bid only helps Mexico/Canada. The US doesn't need to share the WC with another country for it to be a successful WC. Joint bids are only good for smaller countries and the US already has just about all of the infrastructure needed, barring a couple hotels and public transportation improvements in some places.

Also, USA-Jamaica here in KC tonight


----------



## eMKay

Maybe instead of a couple other large, rich cities, they should expand MLS to cities with sports fans! AO BUFFALO in KC


----------



## SVB28

Stadium filling up before the game


----------



## slipperydog

Be on alert, Miami...

MarceloClaure ‏@marceloclaure 15m

Today is an special day for all of us....BIG news coming later today.....stay tuned. http://instagram.com/p/fiE82DgglP/


----------



## will101

slipperydog said:


> Be on alert, Miami...
> 
> MarceloClaure ‏@marceloclaure 15m
> 
> Today is an special day for all of us....BIG news coming later today.....stay tuned. http://instagram.com/p/fiE82DgglP/


OK, it's nine hours later, what is the news? And why does the link have a picture of a guy and his family in San Francisco?


----------



## carnifex2005

slipperydog said:


> Be on alert, Miami...
> 
> MarceloClaure ‏@marceloclaure 15m
> 
> Today is an special day for all of us....BIG news coming later today.....stay tuned. http://instagram.com/p/fiE82DgglP/


Probably has something to do with this...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/16/softbank-brightstar-idUSL3N0I54IM20131016


----------



## will101

carnifex2005 said:


> Probably has something to do with this...
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/16/softbank-brightstar-idUSL3N0I54IM20131016


That's interesting news for Japan, and will make SoftBank a bigger player, but I have no idea what it has to do with soccer or stadiums.


----------



## carnifex2005

will101 said:


> That's interesting news for Japan, and will make SoftBank a bigger player, but I have no idea what it has to do with soccer or stadiums.


Claure owns Brightstar.


----------



## carnifex2005

The MLS President is in Orlando and told the city that if the stadium vote passes they will get a team. This is the first direct confirmation from MLS about Orlando City getting a team (if they get a stadium).

Video in the link.


----------



## Guest

Thanks for telling everyone what they already knew, Mark!


----------



## slipperydog

The vote is today and they need 5 out 7 commissioners to vote in favor.


----------



## master_klon

Soccer stadium for Orlando has been approved! Great work by the club, surely they will get the nod for MLS now.


----------



## Guest

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::lock::lock::lock::lock::lock::lock::cucumber::cucumber::cucumber::cucumber::carrot::carrot::carrot::carrot:epper:epper:epper:epper:


----------



## Guest

> http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...ccer-stadium-orlando-20131022,0,5198898.story


*Orange County commissioners approve MLS stadium*



> An 18,000-seat Major League Soccer stadium will soon be part of downtown Orlando’s landscape — home to what supporters say will be the city’s second professional sports franchise.
> 
> In a raucous celebration, a crowd of more than 200 people chanted “We are going MLS” as soon as Orange County commissioners voted 5-2 Tuesday night to pitch in $20 million in tourist taxes as the county’s share of the $84 million stadium.
> 
> The 18,000-seat stadium’s approval all but guarantees that the city will win an MLS franchise — in the same year that the Orlando Magic is celebrating its 25th season.
> 
> The Orlando City Soccer Club has been in discussions with MLS executives, who said a new franchise would come here if a soccer-specific stadium were built. With Tuesday’s vote, that announcement should come soon, Soccer Club President Phil Rawlins said.
> 
> “The [MLS] ownership group has signed off on it,” Rawlins said. “We’re looking at a four- to six-week window to get the documentation finished up, to get a franchise agreement finalized, and for an announcement to be made.”
> 
> After MLS awards a franchise, only one thing would stand in the way of starting construction: the land. Most of the property already has been bought, but city officials have filed condemnation actions in court to acquire two holdout lots.
> 
> Rawlins said he hopes work can begin in the spring, with construction lasting 15 months and an opening in summer 2015.
> 
> The vote Tuesday night all but sealed the deal on an effort that began quietly nearly three years ago.


In terms of location, this stadium is probably number 1 in MLS. It's in the same area as the Amway Center. Have no doubt that this 18,000 seater will be rocking most games.


----------



## Lumbergo

one thing to note about downtown Orlando is that it is a very active downtown - especially on the weekends. there are lots of bars / pubs / nightclubs and restaurants in the area. UCF students (whom travel about 30 minutes to get down there) and locals flock there spending tons of $$$. if you've only ever seen Orlando from a Disney / Universal perspective than you really have no idea. I think Orlando City S.C. and the stadium will do very well - very much so since Orlando City already had pretty decent attendance for not being in MLS.


----------



## Guest

Lumbergo said:


> one thing to note about downtown Orlando is that it is a very active downtown - especially on the weekends. there are lots of bars / pubs / nightclubs and restaurants in the area. UCF students (whom travel about 30 minutes to get down there) and locals flock there spending tons of $$$. if you've only ever seen Orlando from a Disney / Universal perspective than you really have no idea. I think Orlando City S.C. and the stadium will do very well - very much so since Orlando City already had pretty decent attendance for not being in MLS.


That's a major positive for OCSC, regarding the downtown scene. 

For a third division team, they are doing much better numbers than Sounders in the USL, who were doing paltry sub 5,000 figures prior to MLS.

The other thing to mention about Orlando, which I have noticed only as a result of following the stadium developments, is just how well supported the Lions are by the local media. We've seen that in markets where MLS shares with only one other pro team (Portland, Salt Lake). With MLS again being the only summer pro sport in Orlando, I suspect that to ramp up even further. There'll certainly be no issues about local media coverage anyway. 

They also now have momentum to build up to their first season in 2015. I think we'll be seeing a lot more 10,000+ attendances in Orlando until then.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Lumbergo said:


> one thing to note about downtown Orlando is that it is a very active downtown - especially on the weekends. there are lots of bars / pubs / nightclubs and restaurants in the area. UCF students (whom travel about 30 minutes to get down there) and locals flock there spending tons of $$$. if you've only ever seen Orlando from a Disney / Universal perspective than you really have no idea. I think Orlando City S.C. and the stadium will do very well - very much so since Orlando City already had pretty decent attendance for not being in MLS.


Hmm. I'll take your word for it but I didn't get that vibe when I last visited in Apr '11. Has there been a lot of change since then? 

Regardless, I wish them well and hope they add to the steady growth of MLS.


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> For a third division team, they are doing much better numbers than Sounders in the USL, who were doing paltry sub 5,000 figures prior to MLS.


To be fair MLS wasn't viewed then the way it is now. Not to disparage what OCFC has done but clearly the perception of the league is different compared to 10 years ago, both financially and in terms of fan appeal.



> The other thing to mention about Orlando, which I have noticed only as a result of following the stadium developments, is just how well supported the Lions are by the local media. We've seen that in markets where MLS shares with only one other pro team (Portland, Salt Lake). With MLS again being the only summer pro sport in Orlando, I suspect that to ramp up even further. There'll certainly be no issues about local media coverage anyway.


Indeed, this is surely a strength and one I imagine MLS will look to exploit. While there can be a lot to proximal rivalries this might be a way of allowing both Tampa and Orlando to thrive with some individual identities.


----------



## slipperydog

Some notes on Orlando:

the aim is to begin play in 2015, along with NYCFC (would make it 21 teams)

a logo redesign will be done, but the color purple will be predominant part of the new branding

Citrus Bowl renovation should start in February 2014 and be ready for the start of the 2015 MLS season

New stadium also expected to break ground next spring, anticipated opening in June 2015


----------



## Guest

^ A season at the Citrus Bowl is a pretty good way to build a demand for a stadium that will be in short supply. Even if they cap the CB at 20,000 lets say - or in the least open up more capacity for higher profile matches - they can begin to create a demand well in excess of capacity.

It's going to be Sporting Park on steroids. Look at that location! There really isn't a better one in all of MLS. EDIT: The red box might actually need to be located north of Amway Center, not west. I took a stab.


----------



## Lumbergo

it will be the area between South Division Ave - South Parramore Ave and West Anderson St - West South Street. most of the properties have been bought by the city there. the site looks big enough for a stadium but I could see them maybe wanting buying up to West Jackson Street as well.


----------



## Guest

Thanks Lumbergo. 

Updated pic. Red is current site. Green is the extension you're talking about potentially taking place. With it being practically the same size capacity as the arena, I assume they're just going to use the parking available for the Amway Center right?


----------



## Lumbergo

more than likely. there are several parking garages in the area. i've been to Magic games before and have parked in a downtown garage not adjacent to the arena - it was a 15-20 minute walk at most and there are, like i said, several in the area. but who knows, they may want to build another garage we won't know until we get more details and start seeing more recent/official renders.


----------



## master_klon

This is actually the location of their future stadium:










The city of Orlando already owned 3/4 of the land and in April they bought the remaining 1/4 (bottom left in picture). In May they bulldozed the old warehouse that was on the site.


----------



## Lumbergo

hmmm...seems I was wrong. is that site large enough? seems to be just slightly bigger than Amway


----------



## slipperydog

Lengthy Q&A with President Phil Rawlins

http://soccer.si.com/2013/10/23/orlando-city-phil-rawlins-q-and-a/


----------



## RMB2007

New Atlanta stadium in soccer mode:


----------



## The Real Gazmon

Atlanta looks pretty good in soccer-mode.

So will the plan be to promote the Silverbacks to the MLS in future then?


----------



## carnifex2005

The Real Gazmon said:


> Atlanta looks pretty good in soccer-mode.
> 
> So will the plan be to promote the Silverbacks to the MLS in future then?


Probably not. I'm guessing Blank will just start a new team from scratch. The Silverbacks will be out of luck and probably will have to move or fold.


----------



## carnifex2005

RMB2007 said:


> New Atlanta stadium in soccer mode:


Did the news report say what the capacity was?


----------



## BlazerBlaze

Over all it will be 71,000. I'm guessing around 23,000-25,000 for MLS set up. Some of the corner seats are removed in this setup so that will reduce capacity as well.


----------



## JJG

Stadium's nice and unique. 

Still hate that they're getting rid of the Georgia Dome, though.


----------



## SVB28

Absolutely awesome in soccer mode.

Except for the end zone suites...


----------



## BoulderGrad

The Real Gazmon said:


> Atlanta looks pretty good in soccer-mode.
> 
> So will the plan be to promote the Silverbacks to the MLS in future then?


This has popped up a couple times in the new MLS team discussions. 

No team every really gets "promoted". They are always an expansion team in MLS. They have to pay an expansion fee, they go through an expansion draft, etc. 

To maintain some local history, smart owners (or the same owners sometimes) name the new MLS franchise the same as the old USL or NASL franchise (See Timbers, Whitecaps, Impact, and the Sounders even tho they fought the carryover at first).


----------



## MarkJF

That stadium looks great, I wish clubs in the UK would use those "canopies" to screen off excess capacity.


----------



## GunnerJacket

The Real Gazmon said:


> So will the plan be to promote the Silverbacks to the MLS in future then?


As BoulderGrad said there is no promotion system in the US. The Silverbacks are owned by a different consortium than the Atlanta Falcons, who are owned by Arthur Blank. Unless Mr. Blank buys the Silverbacks, which is unlikely as it would simply be an additional expense to him, then you won't see them in MLS. 

As it is, most of us locally seem against the Silverbacks brand as being MLS worthy. I'd prefer something new and different myself.


BoulderGrad said:


> To maintain some local history, smart owners (or the same owners sometimes) name the new MLS franchise the same as the old USL or NASL franchise (See Timbers, Whitecaps, Impact, and the Sounders even tho they fought the carryover at first).


IF those former franchises had appeal and respect in the community, which is not really the case here. Especially since Atlanta has had no fewer than 5 different soccer nicknames among their various franchises. (Chiefs, Generals, Attack, Ruckus, Silverbacks)

While Silverbacks would be unique and the new AS logo is pretty classy, I still think it's a reach to rely on a former zoo animal with no other ties to the region to serve as your go-to mascot and emblem of the community.


----------



## GunnerJacket

I must admit the design is very promising for soccer mode, and having two different sets of screens for the other tiers allows for incremental increases in capacity if or, wishfully-thinking, when the team garners enough support. Still, if they were to average close to 20k in a 23k arrangement I'd consider that a solid success.

I'm already part of the MLStoATL brigade and will be among the first to buy season tix when available, so hopefully I'll be standing in that supporters end some 4 years from now!


----------



## Guest

It does look great. Here's hoping the capacity isn't too much above 20,000.


----------



## Topher51

SVB28 said:


> Absolutely awesome in soccer mode.
> 
> Except for the end zone suites...


What is so bad about the end zone suites for soccer? In Europe, the most saught after seats are the ones behind the goals. Seems to me like the end zone suites make more sense for soccer than for football.


----------



## tehlazerviking

How can you guys like that? There are obstructed views. Awful. This is the kind of stuff MLS should be trying to get away from.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Topher51 said:


> What is so bad about the end zone suites for soccer? In Europe, the most saught after seats are the ones behind the goals. Seems to me like the end zone suites make more sense for soccer than for football.


All the more reason to put as many butts as possible there rather than reserve it for more hoity-toity types les inclined to cheer and watch the game. Especially for soccer where one end is traditionally reserved for the hard-core supporters who prefer to stand and roar together.


----------



## GunnerJacket

tehlazerviking said:


> How can you guys like that? There are obstructed views. Awful. This is the kind of stuff MLS should be trying to get away from.


Even if these views become reality such obstructions are a minor price to pay given all other factors. MLS is not so big that they can afford to be choosy, and by all accounts Atlanta won't get a team unless it plays here due to ownership conditions. Given that I'll gladly sacrifice not seeing one corner if everything else is top-notch.


----------



## willygtoc

I like this name and logo for Atlanta.


----------



## weava

willygtoc said:


> I like this name and logo for Atlanta.


There is already a pretty big sports team in the US with that name already...


----------



## Guest

weava said:


> There is already a pretty big sports team in the US with that name already...


Not sure why that matters. 

Rangers...
Kings....
Giants...

Massive week for MLS stadiums. Now we just need DC to get it done.


----------



## Welkin

willygtoc said:


> I like this name and logo for Atlanta.


That team name and logo is probably not going to happen. Maybe back in the 1970's, but not in today's PC sports world. Why start a team off with another native american controversy (ie: Washington Redskins). I would guess that Atlanta will pick something non-controversial. Maybe with Atlanta already having the Falcons and Hawks, they will pick another bird-of-prey like the Harriers or Owls.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Welkin said:


> That team name and logo is probably not going to happen. Maybe back in the 1970's, but not in today's PC sports world. Why start a team off with another native american controversy (ie: Washington Redskins). I would guess that Atlanta will pick something non-controversial. Maybe with Atlanta already having the Falcons and Hawks, they will pick another bird-of-prey like the Harriers or Owls.


Dont forget the old Thrashers too (maybe not a bird of prey, but a bird none the less)


----------



## BoulderGrad

GunnerJacket said:


> IF those former franchises had appeal and respect in the community, which is not really the case here. Especially since Atlanta has had no fewer than 5 different soccer nicknames among their various franchises. (Chiefs, Generals, Attack, Ruckus, Silverbacks)
> 
> While Silverbacks would be unique and the new AS logo is pretty classy, I still think it's a reach to rely on a former zoo animal with no other ties to the region to serve as your go-to mascot and emblem of the community.


Fair enough, But it is still a cool name, and 15 years while not being a lot is still SOME history... meh, I dunno... I'd still take it over the typical fake "Club" names. Atlanta FC, FC Atlanta, AC Atlanta... Atlanta Soccer Club... None of them really ring as cool as "Atlanta Silverbacks". 

On other expansion naming fronts:

-I'm guessing Orlando will stick with "Orlando City Soccer Club" with The Lions as an unofficial nick name. Somehow the "club" name works better for them. 

-The San Antonio Scorpions is just an awesome name. I really hope the stick with that as well if SA is eventually awarded a franchise.

-Strangely, Miami FC somehow works as well. I doubt if anyone is looking to revive Mutiny or Fusion...


----------



## JJG

5portsF4n said:


> Not sure why that matters.
> 
> Rangers...
> Kings....
> Giants...


Jets
Panthers...
Oilers (before 1997)...


----------



## crazydude

willygtoc said:


> I like this name and logo for Atlanta.


I wonder if that would bring up copyright issues? After all, Kaizer Motaung named Kaizer Chiefs after the original Atlanta Chiefs.


----------



## BoulderGrad

crazydude said:


> I wonder if that would bring up copyright issues? After all, Kaizer Motaung named Kaizer Chiefs after the original Atlanta Chiefs.


Even without the copyright issues, you still run into native american historical sensitivity issues. Aside from the offensive ones like the redskins, even the non offensive ones like blackhawks are getting flak.


----------



## joezierer

willygtoc said:


> I like this name and logo for Atlanta.


Atlanta already has a racist named team, _The Braves_. They don't need two.


----------



## JJG

joezierer said:


> Atlanta already has a racist named team, _The Braves_. They don't need two.


Braves (or even Indians, for that matter) isn't racist. 

It's not derogatory and the team doesn't feature a logo of a stereotypical Native American.


----------



## willygtoc

willygtoc said:


> I like this name and logo for Atlanta.



I can´t see why this name-logo is racist. By that parameter Knicks and yankees are racist.

I think the people and the political correctness are going too far...


----------



## Guest

BoulderGrad said:


> Fair enough, But it is still a cool name, and 15 years while not being a lot is still SOME history... meh, I dunno... I'd still take it over the typical fake "Club" names. Atlanta FC, FC Atlanta, AC Atlanta... Atlanta Soccer Club... None of them really ring as cool as "Atlanta Silverbacks".
> 
> On other expansion naming fronts:
> 
> -I'm guessing Orlando will stick with "Orlando City Soccer Club" with The Lions as an unofficial nick name. Somehow the "club" name works better for them.
> 
> -The San Antonio Scorpions is just an awesome name. I really hope the stick with that as well if SA is eventually awarded a franchise.
> 
> -Strangely, Miami FC somehow works as well. I doubt if anyone is looking to revive Mutiny or Fusion...


Orlando are in one of those sweet spots where the name works with a nickname or without it. Orlando City Lions sounds great. Orlando City SC sounds great too. 

Scorpions I disagree with. Terrible name. Too many syllables. 

Agree with Miami FC. But I have always liked the Miami Vice name, as corny as it would be.


----------



## JJG

willygtoc said:


> I can´t see why this name-logo is racist. By that parameter *Knicks* and yankees are racist.
> 
> I think the people and the political correctness are going too far...


Knicks (knickerbockers) are just clothing. 

People see Native American mascots are seen as racist or insensitive because they tend to be exploitative of those people. The history of it is why people have a problem with it. 

Political correctness can be over blown and unnecessary at times... but that doesn't mean that it has NO place in society.


----------



## SJAnfield

willygtoc said:


> I can´t see why this name-logo is racist. By that parameter Knicks and yankees are racist. I think the people and the political correctness are going too far...


The use of Native American imagery is simply a major no-no, no matter what the depiction. In his case, an Indian chief, colored red (******* implication), would be considered an incredibly insensitive identity. The only way chiefs would be okay would be if it was implied they were going for a fire chief like Peoria has, or something like Syracuse did with the Sky Chiefs. Anything depicting a Native American will ignite a firestorm of bad PR and protests.

It's always a subject that causes intense debate, but the use of Indian nicknames is extremely insensitive. Coupling the Native American people in the same category as animals, the elements and inanimate objects, and implying they are a people to be feared, is not fair or acceptable. Plus you need to consider the history of the Native American people and the injustices and attempted genocide they endured in this country. There is a reason you have seen the imagery slowly disappear from the NCAA and high schools, and to a lesser extent professional sports.

I hope this thread is hijacked by this subject, but I certainly feel this logo would be a major problem.


----------



## Legomaniac

I'm sorry, this probably has come up a couple times but now that you guys are talking about teams like Atlanta and others alike, why does the MLS not have relegation and promotion of teams? To be honest that's one of the things about soccer in U.S that really turns it off for me. I feel as if they aren't playing for anything, specially those in lower tier leagues.
Anyways hopefully this is not too out of the subject or spam, but it's food for thought. 
Cheers


----------



## BoulderGrad

bd popeye said:


> We will wait for his opinion. If it is the turf I hope he realizes the most successful MLS team attendance wise plays on artificial turf. That would be the Sounders.


All of the Cascadia Cup plays on artificial Turf (Portland, Seattle, Vancouver)

Its them and New England are the Turfers


----------



## Hia-leah JDM

More non-news on Beckham's Miami endeavors

AP Source: Beckham Picks Miami for MLS Franchise


----------



## master_klon

It's not just the turf. I just don't see Atlanta proposing something better than Orlando or Miami.



bd popeye said:


> We will wait for his opinion. If it is the turf I hope he realizes the most successful MLS team attendance wise plays on artificial turf. That would be the Sounders.


Sure I know that (not sure what it has to do with attendance). However, despite all the advances in artificial turf it is still not ideal to play on this surface and everyone, including MLS, knows that. As for getting artificial turf completely out of the league I know that it is impossible and there is no need to do that. But soon it will be only Vancouver and (probably, given their stadium situation) Seattle left with artificial turf.


----------



## GunnerJacket

master_klon said:


> It's not just the turf. I just don't see Atlanta proposing something better than Orlando or Miami.


Doesn't have to be. MLS is looking for four after NYCFC. Conventional theory right now says it will be Orlando, Miami, Atlanta and one other.


----------



## Guest

I think the moment they announced they were going to have curtain tarps, they were more or less guaranteed. If Blank wants to pay the expansion fee, then Atlanta is good to go. 

Orlando, Miami and Atlanta will pretty much cover the south east. I don't care for Carolina or Tennessee personally. Then Garber will turn to finding the 24th team in the midwest.


----------



## RMB2007

I guess Minneapolis could be the 24th, especially with the new stadium on the way. Wonder how well MLS would do in either Detroit or St. Louis, though?


----------



## RMB2007

Interesting that Woods Bagot have once again added and even updated this to their site:




























http://www.woodsbagot.com/project/mls-stadium-usa/


----------



## master_klon

_2-0 vs Kansas City...that scoreboard, haha_

Not surprised if this is the one or something very similar to this, it looks in line with everything the club has talked about. Certainly a few similarities with their model stadium - Sporting Park. 

A few elements could be better such as a continuous roof around the stadium, but in general it looks ok.


----------



## Guest

RMB2007 said:


> I guess Minneapolis could be the 24th, especially with the new stadium on the way. Wonder how well MLS would do in either Detroit or St. Louis, though?


They'd probably do just fine. But very few of the necessary elements are there. Minneapolis is an option. One that is organically growing, like Orlando has, is Indianapolis. They've almost reached their target 7,000 season tickets for next season in NASL. No baseball in Indy either never hurts.


----------



## weava

5portsF4n said:


> They'd probably do just fine. But very few of the necessary elements are there. Minneapolis is an option. One that is organically growing, like Orlando has, is Indianapolis. They've almost reached their target 7,000 season tickets for next season in NASL. *No baseball in Indy* either never hurts.


The AAA baseball team in Indy did pull 637,579 in season total attendance, not exactly MLB, but still impressive for a minor league team and is actually the highest total attendance for any minor league baseball team in North America.


----------



## Guest

weava said:


> The AAA baseball team in Indy did pull 637,579 in season total attendance, not exactly MLB, but still impressive for a minor league team and is actually the highest total attendance for any minor league baseball team in North America.


Okay...


----------



## Guest

*MLS confirms discussions with David Beckham over ownership of potential expansion franchise*

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...beckham-over-ownership-potential-expansion-fr

No stadium news, but its becoming evidently clear Miami is coming in at 22/23. 

The bolded bit is funny. The original source of it clearly has no idea about whats going on. Montreal? Seriously? 



> Major League Soccer acknowledged on Tuesday that it is in talks with David Beckham about one day becoming an MLS owner. What the time frame is on those discussions remains unclear.
> 
> According to a report on Tuesday from The Associated Press, the former LA Galaxy star has elected to exercise his option to buy into the league as an owner at a discounted rate.
> 
> Citing sources close to the negotiations, the AP says Beckham has concluded that Miami is the place where he wants to start an MLS team. The former England captain's original agreement to join MLS in 2007 included such a stipulation to eventually become a club owner.
> 
> An MLS spokesman would not confirm that report or elaborate on any time frame when contacted by MLSsoccer.com, but did confirm that the league and the two-time MLS Cup champion are in contact.
> 
> “We are continuing our discussions with David Beckham regarding future ownership of an MLS expansion team," said MLS executive vice president of communications Dan Courtemanche. "Our policy regarding discussions with potential expansion team owners is that we keep those conversations private until the individuals we are speaking with decide they want to go public with their plans.”
> 
> Representatives from Beckham's circle did not immediately respond to a request for comment from MLSsoccer.com, but Beckham discussed Miami in a separate interview with the AP on Wednesday without acknowledging it as his choice.
> 
> ''Miami excites me because I think it's a city that is very excitable," Beckham said in that interview. ''I've been to watch the [Miami Heat] basketball there. I've seen the [NFL's Miami] Dolphins play. It's a city where the people in the city love their sport.''
> 
> Beckham has spent time since he retired from soccer this past spring exploring the possibility of starting a team in Miami, including touring several possible stadium sites in South Florida along with local businessman Marcelo Claure (above, with Beckham), and meeting local officials.
> 
> *According to the AP report, Beckham also considered Orlando, Montreal and San Diego, although it’s not clear in the report the time frame of those considerations. (Montreal was awarded an MLS franchise back in 2010 while Beckham was still playing.)*
> 
> Orlando is thought to be the next MLS expansion city announced, as Orlando City secured a funding package last week for a soccer-specific stadium. MLS has not had a team in Florida since 2002, when the league contracted the Miami Fusion and Tampa Bay Mutiny.
> 
> The league announced in July that it will add four more franchises by 2020, taking MLS to 24 teams. New York City FC are set to come aboard as the league's 20th franchise in 2015.


----------



## master_klon

Why's that? Maybe this just means that Montreal was one of his options, up until the Impact got the license. :dunno:

As for San Diego (the 8th most populous city in the US), it would be great if they could get a NASL team soon.


----------



## carnifex2005

5portsF4n said:


> *MLS confirms discussions with David Beckham over ownership of potential expansion franchise*
> 
> http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...beckham-over-ownership-potential-expansion-fr
> 
> No stadium news, but its becoming evidently clear Miami is coming in at 22/23.
> 
> The bolded bit is funny. The original source of it clearly has no idea about whats going on. Montreal? Seriously?


Actually it was rumoured that the Impact and Beckham did talk about the having a joint effort to get into MLS (before Montreal was awarded a franchise) but that talk quickly died.


----------



## slipperydog

Beckham talks about Miami






Reaction from Miami fans


----------



## will101

master_klon said:


> Why's that? Maybe this just means that Montreal was one of his options, up until the Impact got the license. :dunno:
> 
> As for San Diego (the 8th most populous city in the US), it would be great if they could get a NASL team soon.


San Diego is only the 17th largest metro area in the US, and already has three top tier teams within driving distance (Galaxy, Chivas, Xolos). Plus there are stadium issues.


----------



## Guest

master_klon said:


> Why's that? Maybe this just means that Montreal was one of his options, up until the Impact got the license. :dunno:
> 
> As for San Diego (the 8th most populous city in the US), it would be great if they could get a NASL team soon.


Yeah I didn't consider that he might have been looking while he was still playing. 

San Diego is one of the best rating markets for soccer. Despite this, still nothing growing in the city like you see with many others. It still seems strange that the UT San Diego newspaper covers a Mexican team.


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

will101 said:


> San Diego is only the 17th largest metro area in the US, and already has three top tier teams within driving distance (Galaxy, Chivas, Xolos). Plus there are stadium issues.


Yes, but it's still a 3 hour drive to LA without traffic. With traffic your looking at 5-9 hours. Not many San Diegans are going to make that trip to watch the Galaxy or Chivas.


----------



## bd popeye

ElDudarinodotcom said:


> Yes, but it's still a 3 hour drive to LA without traffic. With traffic your looking at 5-9 hours. Not many San Diegans are going to make that trip to watch the Galaxy or Chivas.


I disagree with the drive time. I lived in SD for 26 years. My son lives in SD and works in LA during the week. My old job in SD took me to LA many, many mornings. The average drive time was about two hours. Coming home maybe a little longer. My son says things are about the same.

Just my opinion based on my experience.

I think SD would be an outstanding MLS market.. but alas.. no SSS any where in sight.


----------



## ObiUbamba

California has enough MLS teams. The South needs more teams instead.


----------



## JJG

ObiUbamba said:


> The South needs more teams instead.


At some point, you have to realize that when it comes to sports teams, the word "need" should only apply to players and personnel. NOT the city. 

No city really _needs_ a sports team of any kind. It's really a 'want' more than anything.


----------



## SVB28

The Xolos are pretty prominent in San Diego, aren't they? That and the fact that there is no potential owner or SSS in the works shows that it isn't likely SD would get a team soon. I do wish Chivas could move to SD or closer to SD, though, along with a rebrand.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

ElDudarinodotcom said:


> Yes, but it's still a 3 hour drive to LA without traffic. With traffic your looking at 5-9 hours. Not many San Diegans are going to make that trip to watch the Galaxy or Chivas.


uhh, youre WAYYYYYYYYYYY off... 1.5 - 2 hours without traffic, 3 - 3.5 with... ive done the drive over 50 times


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

ObiUbamba said:


> California has enough MLS teams. The South needs more teams instead.


California also pretty much has more people that the entire south combined


----------



## Guest

ObiUbamba said:


> California has enough MLS teams. The South needs more teams instead.


The South (East) is getting 3 teams, to go along with all the southwest teams already in the league. How many more you want?


----------



## GunnerJacket

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> California also pretty much has more people that the entire south combined


Er...
US Census 2012 estimates

California - 38,041,430

FL - 19,317,568
GA - _9,919,945
NC - _9,752,073
TN - _6,456,243
AL - _4,822,023
SC - _4,723,723
__ - 54,991,575


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> The South (East) is getting 3 teams, to go along with all the southwest teams already in the league. How many more you want?


I think the three oft mentioned should be a fine start, though down the line something in NC might be good as a rival for ATL & DC. For now I agree the 24th team should probably be StL or further west.


----------



## Guest

GunnerJacket said:


> I think the three oft mentioned should be a fine start, though down the line something in NC might be good as a rival for ATL & DC. *For now I agree the 24th team should probably be StL or further west.*


Outside of Minneapolis (which I like as an idea), there's really not much west of St Louis, until you reach Arizona. 

I like what Minneapolis adds potentially. I like whats happening in Indianapolis. Detroit is interesting, but a long way off viability. And St Louis would need to show something tangible real fast. 

That spot is really up for grabs, and right now, the only market you can really say is beginning to get the wheels in motion is Indianapolis, as crazy as that were to sound in any year prior to this one. 

I'm not counting San Antonio's work because I can't see Texas getting another spot at the expense of the midwest.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

GunnerJacket said:


> Er...
> US Census 2012 estimates
> 
> California - 38,041,430
> 
> FL - 19,317,568
> GA - _9,919,945
> NC - _9,752,073
> TN - _6,456,243
> AL - _4,822,023
> SC - _4,723,723
> __ - 54,991,575


i was exaggerating, but California can easily support 2 more teams. San Diego and another Bay Area Team. Not saying it should happen at this point, but 3 teams is not the cap for California


----------



## joezierer

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> California also pretty much has more people that the entire south combined


If California is so big how come you guys only have 2 nfl teams?


----------



## bd popeye

joezierer said:


> If California is so big how come you guys only have 2 nfl teams?


That's just how it is. the NFL was established in the east and midwest in 1920. California did not have a team until the Rams mover there from Cleveland in 1946.

CA at one time nearly 20 years ago had two teams in LA. The Rams moved St Louis and the Raiders moved North to Oakland.

Perhaps some day soon a team besides the Chargers will move to LA.

In case you did not know there are 5 MLB teams in CA, 3 NHL teams & 3 NBA teams along with the three NFL teams..


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

bd popeye said:


> That's just how it is. the NFL was established in the east and midwest in 1920. California did not have a team until the Rams mover there from Cleveland in 1946.
> 
> CA at one time nearly 20 years ago had two teams in LA. The Rams moved St Louis and the Raiders moved North to Oakland.
> 
> Perhaps some day soon a team besides the Chargers will move to LA.
> 
> In case you did not know there are 5 MLB teams in CA, 3 NHL teams & 3 NBA teams along with the three NFL teams..


5 MLB teams... Dodgers, Angels, Giants, Padres, Athletics
4 NBA teams... Lakers, Clippers, Warriors, Kings
3 NHL teams... Kings, Ducks, Sharks
3 MLS teams... Galaxy, Chivas, Earthquakes
3 NFL teams... Raiders, 49ers, Chargers


----------



## BlazerBlaze

5portsF4n said:


> The South (East) is getting 3 teams, to go along with all the southwest teams already in the league. How many more you want?


Well considering its a 12 hour drive to Houston and DC from Atlanta and Orlando I'd say one or two more!


----------



## Guest

BlazerBlaze said:


> Well considering its a 12 hour drive to Houston and DC from Atlanta and Orlando I'd say one or two more!


With Miami you have your own little straight line like Cascadia. 

Conference realignment will be interesting. Right now there are 10 teams in east, 9 teams in west. Think this is how it will play out. 

Houston -> West = 10 teams in west, 9 in east
NYCFC - > East = 10/10 
Orlando - > East = 10 teams in west, 11 teams in east
Atlanta - > East = 10 teams in west, 12 teams in east
SKC - > West = 11 teams in west, 11 teams in east
Miami - > East = 11 teams in west, 12 teams in east
Midwest or western team - > West = 12/12


----------



## bd popeye

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> 5 MLB teams... Dodgers, Angels, Giants, Padres, Athletics
> 4 NBA teams... Lakers, Clippers, Warriors, Kings
> 3 NHL teams... Kings, Ducks, Sharks
> 3 MLS teams... Galaxy, Chivas, Earthquakes
> 3 NFL teams... Raiders, 49ers, Chargers


Forgot about the Sacramento Kings..duh..It's not like they are really an NBA team doncha know..:|


----------



## joezierer

bd popeye said:


> That's just how it is. the NFL was established in the east and midwest in 1920. California did not have a team until the Rams mover there from Cleveland in 1946.
> 
> CA at one time nearly 20 years ago had two teams in LA. The Rams moved St Louis and the Raiders moved North to Oakland.
> 
> Perhaps some day soon a team besides the Chargers will move to LA.
> 
> In case you did not know there are 5 MLB teams in CA, 3 NHL teams & 3 NBA teams along with the three NFL teams..


It was a joke that's why there was a "" at the end.


----------



## The Real Gazmon

How many teams can the MLS realistically have before the talent is diluted too much?

Would it be best for the MLS to hit 20-teams then build up a 2nd division or max it out at 24?


----------



## will101

The Real Gazmon said:


> How many teams can the MLS realistically have before the talent is diluted too much?
> 
> Would it be best for the MLS to hit 20-teams then build up a 2nd division or max it out at 24?


There are close to 200 soccer leagues in the world. How can MLS dilute the talent? MLS doesn't have the resources of the Bundesliga or EPL, but compared to most countries they are rolling in dough. And MLS is banking on there being a lot of affordable talent out there in poorer leagues.


----------



## Guest

The Real Gazmon said:


> How many teams can the MLS realistically have before the talent is diluted too much?
> 
> Would it be best for the MLS to hit 20-teams then build up a 2nd division or max it out at 24?


The quality has improved as the number of teams has increased. 

Both the quality of the import and the quality of the home grown player are, on average, better than they were in the past. Not only are player development techniques improving, but clubs are also able to afford better imports. That's only going to improve in the future. 

To answer your question, MLS is going to emulate the other majors and go up to up to 30 and beyond. MLS/soccer has a much larger talent pool than any other sport.


----------



## The Real Gazmon

will101 said:


> There are close to 200 soccer leagues in the world. How can MLS dilute the talent? MLS doesn't have the resources of the Bundesliga or EPL, but compared to most countries they are rolling in dough. And MLS is banking on there being a lot of affordable talent out there in poorer leagues.


The US/Canada has a similar issue to Australia though. Kids grow up playing football/soccer, then hit the mid teens and the talented ones often will focus on other sports that are far more fruitful at the professional level locally.

There will always be a limit to the local talent available, hence why there is a need to international players to be brought in to blood the locals and increase their abilities. The question is though, will the addition of 4 teams mean another 80-100 players being promoted from within or will most be outcasts from current MLS clubs.


----------



## bd popeye

Thanks for that explanation 5portsF4n. Seems confusing to me. Why make it so complicated? What wrong with you win or lose? Simple. 



5portsF4n said:


> And don't worry about not liking soccer, its not for everyone. If I didn't grow up playing it I'd probably hate it too  Instead, I find myself watching two coma inducing games in a row and still fool myself into thinking that watching the 3rd one is the right thing to do.


I do not hate soccer. I'm just not a fan. I do watch portions of the occasional match..small portions that is. AND I do want professional soccer to prosper in the US.


----------



## Guest

Whats your opinion on it? As in, how would you set it out? I cant really see a better way of determining a winner when you only have 2 games. When you say its complicated, do you mean youd rather just have a football type higher seed hosts one game and thats it? Or do you mean something less complicated but still using 2 games?


----------



## krudmonk

ObiUbamba said:


> Youth football in America will only be improved once the MLS academies take precedence over Colleges. In Europe, talented youngsters are spotted at the age of 10 and taken through the youth system of professional clubs all the way to the age of 18.


Or it sounds like European football corporations should back off and let children be children.


----------



## ielag

BlazerBlaze said:


> I might get destroyed for saying this but I'm going to anyway.....
> 
> I don't like Red Bull Arena and I've never understood the hype for it.
> 
> I will give it this, it appears to have great sight lines, but besides that it just meh to me. Its boring and unoriginal. Riding by it on the train on the way to NYC it literally looks like a giant white elephant in the middle of the truck yard. Nothing special about it, just a giant rounded square white tarp. Even watching on TV it doesn't do much for me, it doesn't even say RedBull New York to me. The walls are bare and lack any signage other than the random things the fans hang over the side. IDK, maybe I'm crazy but i think BBVA is a much better stadium.


I've been to it once and it's very boring from the outside. 

Inside the stadium though, it does have great sight lines and it's probably the best roof in all of MLS, does a great job holding in sound and covers basically every seat. There's no gaps in the roof or made from TFE material that reduce how much sound can be held in, the concourses are all underneath the roof as well.


----------



## matthemod

krudmonk said:


> Or it sounds like European football corporations should back off and let children be children.


You'll be hearing no argument from me for when big sides take kids, a lot of the time from foreign countries, and throw them into an unusual setting into their academy systems.

However, the lifeblood of football is bringing players up through the ranks, training them as kids in the youth teams, and then seeing if they can step up to the adult team when their opportunity comes. A lot of kids will even get their chance to enter the men's team as young as 16 if they're good enough.

My favourite football team, like most in the UK, have kids teams from under 10's - under 17's, but it's not as if their childhood is stolen away from them. They go to school and live at home like every other child, just they go to training and play football on weekends.


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

Looks like the structure has started in San Jose

http://www.sjearthquakes.com/newstadium/webcam%20


----------



## ObiUbamba

matthemod said:


> You'll be hearing no argument from me for when big sides take kids, a lot of the time from foreign countries, and throw them into an unusual setting into their academy systems.
> 
> However, the lifeblood of football is bringing players up through the ranks, training them as kids in the youth teams, and then seeing if they can step up to the adult team when their opportunity comes. A lot of kids will even get their chance to enter the men's team as young as 16 if they're good enough.
> 
> My favourite football team, like most in the UK, have kids teams from under 10's - under 17's, but it's not as if their childhood is stolen away from them. They go to school and live at home like every other child, just they go to training and play football on weekends.


Exactly. Of course the kids can still be kids and do things their classmates can. All I am saying is that this academy system in which clubs spot and nurture talent is much better than a kid playing in high school and then college with not as much interest in player development.


----------



## bd popeye

5portsF4n said:


> Whats your opinion on it? As in, how would you set it out? I cant really see a better way of determining a winner when you only have 2 games. When you say its complicated, do you mean youd rather just have a football type higher seed hosts one game and thats it? Or do you mean something less complicated but still using 2 games?


Have one game instead of two.. winner takes all. If there's a tie at the end of the game..have a shootout.


----------



## will101

ElDudarinodotcom said:


> Looks like the structure has started in San Jose
> 
> http://www.sjearthquakes.com/newstadium/webcam%20


Looks like the tower structure that will support the press box is going up first.


----------



## slipperydog

ObiUbamba said:


> Exactly. Of course the kids can still be kids and do things their classmates can. All I am saying is that this academy system in which clubs spot and nurture talent is much better than a kid playing in high school and then college with not as much interest in player development.


Kids in the US lose their college eligibility if they sign with an academy because the NCAA sees them as 'professional' if a pro team 'owns' the player and can profit from a potential sale. Many players/parents don't want to forgo their opportunity to get a college education paid for by giving a pro team the rights to their potential profitability.


----------



## Kerrybai

bd popeye said:


> Have one game instead of two.. winner takes all. If there's a tie at the end of the game..have a shootout.


That's how the final of a soccer tournament is decided as it is held in an neutral venue but you couldn't host all playoff games in neutral venues so who would get to be the home team?

Playing as the 'road' team in soccer is much more difficult so it would be unfair to give one team the advantage. Having 2 games relieves this problem.


----------



## Guest

bd popeye said:


> Have one game instead of two.. winner takes all. If there's a tie at the end of the game..have a shootout.


I'd agree with you. I wouldn't argue if there was only one game. If the higher seed hosted a one off game, I think that'd be fine. 

Kerrybai summed up why 2 legs are used, but I agree in that I wouldn't really mind if the higher seed just hosted one game and that was it like the NFL. 

The current system is equitable though. In Europe and elsewhere around the world, where teams in the Champions League play in entirely different leagues, it makes sense to have two games, as its unfair to decide seeding/ranking when they play in separate leagues. 

But in a league which has playoffs like MLS, hosting 2 games isn't a necessity.


----------



## Kerrybai

5portsF4n said:


> I'd agree with you. I wouldn't argue if there was only one game. If the higher seed hosted a one off game, I think that'd be fine.
> 
> Kerrybai summed up why 2 legs are used, but I agree in that I wouldn't really mind if the higher seed just hosted one game and that was it like the NFL.
> 
> The current system is equitable though. In Europe and elsewhere around the world, where teams in the Champions League play in entirely different leagues, it makes sense to have two games, as its unfair to decide seeding/ranking when they play in separate leagues.
> 
> But in a league which has playoffs like MLS, hosting 2 games isn't a necessity.


I think the difference in results between NFL and soccer road games is much higher. For example the Patriots would'nt likely lose against the Jags at home or on the road, but a big soccer team like Manchester United could easily lose/draw away to a comparatively small team.

The 'road' difference is huge in soccer. Here is a perfect example.

Between 23 February 2002 and 2 April 2011, Mourinho went 150 home league matches unbeaten: 38 (W36–D2) with Porto, 60 (W46–D14) with Chelsea, 38 (W29–D9) with Internazionale and 14 (W14–D0) with Real Madrid. The run was broken by Sporting de Gijón on 2 April 2011, when they defeated Real Madrid 1–0 at the Santiago Bernabéu Stadium in La Liga. After the match, Mourinho entered Gijón's dressing room and congratulated them.[139] His only prior home league defeat had come when Porto lost 3–2 to Beira-Mar on 23 February 2002.


----------



## Guest

You won't get an argument out of me about merits of two legs in continental cup competitions. But those ties are between teams who don't play in the same league throughout the year. MLS teams, despite having conferences, play in the same league. The east/west divide isn't so drastic that both teams need to host games. Reward the higher seeds by giving them the home game, and winner takes all. 

If New England wants to beat NYRB and advance, go to RBA and do it. 

And even in Europe, if teams knew it was a one off, they would approach it differently. The home/away difference in the Champions League is usually down to the cautious/reactive approach teams adopt knowing fully well that they have a home game where they can swing things in their favour.


----------



## weava

Kerrybai said:


> I think the difference in results between NFL and soccer road games is much higher. For example the Patriots would'nt likely lose against the Jags at home or on the road, but a big soccer team like Manchester United could easily lose/draw away to a comparatively small team.
> 
> The 'road' difference is huge in soccer. Here is a perfect example.
> 
> Between 23 February 2002 and 2 April 2011, Mourinho went 150 home league matches unbeaten: 38 (W36–D2) with Porto, 60 (W46–D14) with Chelsea, 38 (W29–D9) with Internazionale and 14 (W14–D0) with Real Madrid. The run was broken by Sporting de Gijón on 2 April 2011, when they defeated Real Madrid 1–0 at the Santiago Bernabéu Stadium in La Liga. After the match, Mourinho entered Gijón's dressing room and congratulated them.[139] His only prior home league defeat had come when Porto lost 3–2 to Beira-Mar on 23 February 2002.


The home field advantage is real in every sport statistically but mostly due to psychological reasons where in American football the homefield advantage is real because the crowd noise can affect the game through false starts, the opposing offense not being able to hear the play call, etc. Baseball stadiums not having uniform shapes and oddities like the green monster give teams a real homefield advantage as well but in sports like soccer, basketball, and hockey the advantage is mostly from emotion of playing at home vs on the road. the fact that MLS has the most lopsided homefield advantage of any US league just proves that soccer players are more emotional and can't psych themselves up for road games.


----------



## Guest

^What a load of nonsense

Studies have been done on this, and they've proven that home advantage is down to referees being influenced in extremely subtle ways in favor of the home team. 

Emotion of the players? Lol. 

How does MLS have lopsided home advantage? NY just got knocked out, Salt Lake might get knocked out in a couple of hours. SKC came within 10 minutes of being knocked out. All these teams have were higher seeds and had an advantage. 

Don't comment on things you have no idea about.


----------



## weava

5portsF4n said:


> ^What a load of nonsense
> 
> Studies have been done on this, and they've proven that home advantage is down to referees being influenced in extremely subtle ways in favor of the home team.
> 
> Emotion of the players? Lol.
> 
> How does MLS have lopsided home advantage? NY just got knocked out, Salt Lake might get knocked out in a couple of hours. SKC came within 10 minutes of being knocked out. All these teams have were higher seeds and had an advantage.
> 
> Don't comment on things you have no idea about.


since I do know what I am talking about I will prove you wrong. (and I use statistics not a few anecdotal games)

home team win percentage
MLS 69.1 
NBA 60.5 
NFL 57.3
NHL 55.7 
MLB 53.9 
source

and


> A 2003 study by neuroscientists Nick Neave and Sandy Wolfson from the U.K.’s Northumbria University found that salivary testosterone levels in British professional soccer players were significantly higher before a home game than an away game. The effect was more pronounced if the home team players perceived the visitors as an “extreme” rival than merely a “moderate” one that they didn’t feel as strongly about besting.


----------



## Guest

This entire discussion is about playoff formats. You've just shot off a list of stats that encompasses entire seasons. In a low scoring sport like soccer, minute decisions can have huge ramifications on the outcome of the match, like oh I don't know, the decision to give a home team a penalty. How's that going to hold up in basketball? 

But I'll play along. Here's a 2007 study showing that its mostly down to referee bias:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17654230

Or another one from Spain:

http://ideas.repec.org/p/eec/wpaper/1119.html

The book that I've read on the subject, which I forget the name of, found that referee bias was the PRIMARY reason why teams had a home field advantage.

The reason why home win percentages are high is because teams actively play cautiously away from home. That's undisputed fact. They look to play on the counter much more than they would at home. If you knew anything about the sport of soccer, you'd know that already. But you evidently don't, so there's no point in having a discussion on the subject.


----------



## Guest

PPL Park (Philly Union) will host a sold out rugby match this weekend between the US Eagles and a NZ Maori side. Go Eagles!


----------



## weava

5portsF4n said:


> This entire discussion is about playoff formats. You've just shot off a list of stats that encompasses entire seasons. In a low scoring sport like soccer, minute decisions can have huge ramifications on the outcome of the match, like oh I don't know, the decision to give a home team a penalty. How's that going to hold up in basketball?
> 
> But I'll play along. Here's a 2007 study showing that its mostly down to referee bias:
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17654230
> 
> Or another one from Spain:
> 
> http://ideas.repec.org/p/eec/wpaper/1119.html
> 
> The book that I've read on the subject, which I forget the name of, found that referee bias was the PRIMARY reason why teams had a home field advantage.
> 
> The reason why home win percentages are high is because teams actively play cautiously away from home. That's undisputed fact. They look to play on the counter much more than they would at home. If you knew anything about the sport of soccer, you'd know that already. But you evidently don't, so there's no point in having a discussion on the subject.


I don't dispute ref bias, every sport has it. but where is your proof that it is worse in soccer than in any other sport?


----------



## joezierer

mamangvilla said:


> I wonder why Portland never tried to play home game at cfb stadium yet? If San Jose can have a capacity crowd at Stanford two years in a row for the games against LA, I believe they could easily fill up Autzen or Reser for a game against Seattle.


Is there a big college stadium in Portland?


----------



## carnifex2005

joezierer said:


> Is there a big college stadium in Portland?


No. As was pointed out above the two big ones are very far away.


----------



## will101

joezierer said:


> Is there a big college stadium in Portland?


Nope. Jeld-Wen is it. That's the stadium that Portland State uses.


----------



## joezierer

carnifex2005 said:


> No. As was pointed out above the two big ones are very far away.


Ah sorry. Didn't think there was.


----------



## moosefoot

5portsF4n said:


> Pictures from Portland Seattle, courtesy of Oregon Live.


Amazing shots that seem to convey an amazing atmosphere! I had no clue that soccer actually drew such enthusiastic crowds in the states, I guess you learn something new every day.


----------



## Guest

moosefoot said:


> Amazing shots that seem to convey an amazing atmosphere! I had no clue that soccer actually drew such enthusiastic crowds in the states, I guess you learn something new every day.


:cheers: It's become so common place in a number of cities that its not really much of a story anymore - good attendance and atmosphere that is. The vast majority of soccer fans around the world wouldn't have any clue about how far the league has come (if they even know pro soccer is played in the US/Canada). But you have to earn your respect, and MLS has a long way to go in its own region let alone the rest of the world.


----------



## matthemod

5portsF4n said:


> :cheers: It's become so common place in a number of cities that its not really much of a story anymore - good attendance and atmosphere that is. The vast majority of soccer fans around the world wouldn't have any clue about how far the league has come (if they even know pro soccer is played in the US/Canada). But you have to earn your respect, and MLS has a long way to go in its own region let alone the rest of the world.


I think what the MLS has going for it is that they're expanding slowly and with teams in areas that have shown interest in the sport. Expanding to places where there is already an existing atmosphere and support for a local team (NASL or USL), will only improve the MLS as opposed to when the old NASL expanded far too quickly, and into areas that didn't care too much.

The credibility, popularity and respect that the MLS has will only increase if they continue with this tactic.


----------



## slipperydog

carnifex2005 said:


> Daily Mail should really do more research. MLS said that FIU isn't acceptable as a stadium for an expansion team. Miami will have to have a SSS right off the bat.
> 
> Here's another story about it from ESPN.


Miami Herald reports that Beckham considering FIU and Marlins Park as temporary home until stadium facility is built.


----------



## carnifex2005

slipperydog said:


> Miami Herald reports that Beckham considering FIU and Marlins Park as temporary home until stadium facility is built.


Yeah, the Mayor said that as well. I wonder if MLS has signed off on that though. That is the big question.

https://twitter.com/kaufsports/status/400673880328925184


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> Miami Herald reports that Beckham considering FIU and *Marlins Park *as temporary home until stadium facility is built.


There are not enough "No's" in my arsenal to match the depth of crap within this idea.


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

Starting to see the footprint of the new Earthquakes stadium 



http://www.sjearthquakes.com/newstadium/webcam%20
Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## Lumbergo

GunnerJacket said:


> There are not enough "No's" in my arsenal to match the depth of crap within this idea.


i'm for it - marlins fans sure as hell aren't going to help pay for that ridiculous stadium. plus it's already hosted soccer games so until Miami FC actually has good attendance it'll work as a good venue to help build support.


----------



## Guest

We're going down a slippery slope though. NYC and Miami potentially playing in ballparks for a few years just goes against everything the league has been about for the last 6-7 years. On top of that, there is the potential that NYC/Miami lodge for A LOT longer than a few years. 

I don't actually have an issue with it, but if they're hoping to enhance the image of the league by having large markets playing out of non-SSS it's not the best way of going about it. 

MLS should just hold off until they have the stadium plans in place completely. The Miami market is not going to send television revenue skyrocketing, so what's the rush? There's too much uncertainty surrounding all of these stadium proposals.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Lumbergo said:


> i'm for it - marlins fans sure as hell aren't going to help pay for that ridiculous stadium.


Agreed, but that's on the Marlins and the politicians who gave them the money. 

Based on the (2?) soccer games played there it's a decidedly sub-par soccer venue and would easily become the weakest stadium in the league. It would make for poor TV viewing and not endear fans to the league or the new team. Now if you want to oust the Marlins and remake it into a proper venue for the Hurricanes and MLS then I'll listen.


----------



## carnifex2005

Renders for the new Sacramento Republic FC of USL PRO (Division 3) stadium were released today...










On November 14, 2013, a subcommittee of the Cal Expo Board of Directors unamimously adpoted a recommendation for the Board of Directors to move forward on a proposal with Ovations Food Service to develop an 8,000 seat multi-use facility that would include a full grass pitch for soccer. If the facility is built, it will serve as the home pitch or field for Sacramento Republic FC during its 2014 Inaugural Season.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Not too shabby. Personally I'd leave off the small stands on the end at top and just leave that open, but for a starter venue there's nothing really to complain about. 

Again, nice to see investment in the sport here in the States.


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

carnifex2005 said:


> Renders for the new Sacramento Republic FC of USL PRO (Division 3) stadium were released today...


That will be a much better atmosphere than Charles C. Hughes Stadium. No point in doing anything too fancy for a temporary venue. From the link it sounds like the ultimate goal would be to eventually join the MLS and build a downtown stadium. I hope they go forward with this; I would love to see Sac Republic FC succeed.


----------



## goldy21

eMKay said:


> And you just said it again. Well there goes any chance of many of us ever taking your posts seriously again.


I'm trying to track down the article, but I read that a study was done a few years ago on home field advantage for the NFL and the effect of the crowd on the refs was by far the biggest factor. Weather, crowd noise (for false starts, etc), and other factors were not statistically significant in influencing results for the home team.


----------



## slipperydog

Liverpool co-owner Lebron James is in talks with David Beckham to bring an MLS franchise to Miami

http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1...s-talking-mls-franchise-david-beckham?cc=5901


----------



## Guest

Depends how much he wants to put in. If its a super minority share, he has little to lose. Anything serious and he should probably avoid. 

But I think a Miami franchise with Beckham/James probably makes being owned by Red Bull or Man City look good among many MLS fans.


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^Really glad MLS moved away from the netural site championship games. How many people in Toronto would give a shit that Colorado is playing Dallas? Sporting KC packs the place with rowdy fans (and a good showing by RSL visiting supporters) for an awesome game.


----------



## Bobby3

I understand that I'm nitpicking but I wish WakeMed Soccer Park had box goals instead of the portable ones.


----------



## The Real Gazmon

Bobby3 said:


> I understand that I'm nitpicking but I wish WakeMed Soccer Park had box goals instead of the portable ones.


It's ok, I agree with you! I can't stand ANY portable goals - especially in a professional league. The one thing I hate more is those annoying NFL markings all over the football pitches - I know some teams have no choice but it looks very unprofessional and really does make it hard to watch.

I did manage to catch the MLS final (except the 1st half, as it was early in the morning here in Australia)... great game, very scrappy, but still enjoyable.


----------



## matthemod

The Real Gazmon said:


> It's ok, I agree with you! I can't stand ANY portable goals - especially in a professional league. The one thing I hate more is those annoying NFL markings all over the football pitches - I know some teams have no choice but it looks very unprofessional and really does make it hard to watch.
> 
> I did manage to catch the MLS final (except the 1st half, as it was early in the morning here in Australia)... great game, very scrappy, but still enjoyable.


I don't mind too much with Gridiron lines when the pitch itself is grass (the same circumstance happens at plenty of locales across the world with teams who share with Rugby etc), but when it's the sharing of a ground with artificial turf, complete with painted graphics, that's pretty annoying.

Fortunately I don't think any MLS teams do that, wish the same could be said for smaller/college teams.


----------



## Guest

The Real Gazmon said:


> It's ok, I agree with you! I can't stand ANY portable goals - especially in a professional league. *The one thing I hate more is those annoying NFL markings all over the football pitches *- I know some teams have no choice but it looks very unprofessional and really does make it hard to watch.


You must not follow MLS much at all because that rarely happens these days. The only team (outside of a scheduling fiasco in Seattle this last play off) where that is ever an issue is New England, and even they have clear fields most of the time.


----------



## joezierer

boyerling3 said:


> Playing at an outdoor stadium in Chicago or Toronto in January does not sound like a good idea for the game. I wouldn't be as likely to attend a game.


They play all the way into december, they already play in cold weather so the old "no one would show up for cold weather games" garbage is completely irrelevant.


----------



## Guest

joezierer said:


> They play all the way into december, they already play in cold weather so the old "no one would show up for cold weather games" garbage is completely irrelevant.


Obviously people would show up, but the incentive to show up diminishes. And you're talking about playoff games, which can't be used as evidence that it would work as well if it was regular season.


----------



## carnifex2005

5portsF4n said:


> Obviously people would show up, but the incentive to show up diminishes. And you're talking about playoff games, which can't be used as evidence that it would work as well if it was regular season.


The thing is that eventually TV money by playing in the Fall/Winter will outstrip any potential losses in fans in the seats in during that time. MLS has obviously done the research on what this, which is why 1) they are so gung ho on SE expansion and 2) openly talking about this change being inevitable.


----------



## Bobby3

MLS teams (mostly) play in 20,000 seat stadiums. You aren't going to fund a team with gate receipts from a 20,000 seat stadium (NBA and NFL teams have twice as many games and massive TV deals), especially with an almost certain increase in player wages to come with the next CBA. It comes down to television money and if the television partners want autumn-spring they're going to get it.

Besides, you can do a winter break which just so happens to coincide with bowl season and the NFL playoffs.


----------



## weava

carnifex2005 said:


> The thing is that eventually TV money by playing in the Fall/Winter will outstrip any potential losses in fans in the seats in during that time. MLS has obviously done the re search on what this, which is why 1) they are so gung ho on SE expansion and 2) openly talking about this change being inevitable.


why would the tv deals be better in the winter? they can't compete with American football.


----------



## carnifex2005

weava said:


> why would the tv deals be better in the winter? they can't compete with American football.


Their most important games wouldn't be competing with football and it is very easy to play games on Saturday when football usually isn't on. Also ratings are supposed to spike during the playoffs but usually don't because they are up against college and pro football. With a Fall - Spring schedule that wouldn't be the case. Also by playing on Saturday's, if a company like NBC gets the MLS rights, they can promote with their EPL coverage throughout the entire season. Small sample size but since PL coverage began on NBCSN, viewership of the eight MLS games on NBC has increased by 60 percent, while the number of unique visitors to NBC-streamed MLS games has jumped 322 percent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/28/sports/soccer/premier-league-coverage-pays-off-for-nbc.html


----------



## Lumbergo

carnifex2005 said:


> Their most important games wouldn't be competing with football and it is very easy to play games on Saturday when football usually isn't on. ]


college football would like a word.:bash:


----------



## boyerling3

I'd be very curious to see the research on who MLS thinks does and would watch games on TV. Obviously American football is the big whale of TV viewership but do those viewers transition to NBA and NHL or is there just a gap in what those fans watch that MLS would hope to pick up by a schedule swap?


----------



## bd popeye

carnifex2005 said:


> Their most important games wouldn't be competing with football and it is very easy to play games on Saturday when football usually isn't on.


Huh? College Football is on TV every Saturday in the US in the fall..dominating the US sports Tv scene.

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-football-tv-ratings/

Unfortunately the MLS has a long way to go to get decent TV ratings.

http://www.ussoccerplayers.com/2013/12/was-the-story-of-mls-in-2013-the-tv-ratings.html



> Was Garber willing to take responsibility for the league’s lousy tv ratings?
> 
> Well… no.
> 
> "In order to grow your TV ratings, you have to grow your fan base; first we need a partner that gives us the right schedule, the right promotion, and marketing. That will allow us to have our programming be valuable and be a priority both for the broadcaster and for our fans. If we are able to achieve that, I believe our television ratings will grow.”
> 
> Because some of your broadcast partners have been with the league since the first game and your league is delivering smaller ratings than the WNBA.
> 
> "What we need to have is a consistent game or games of the week that run from the beginning to the end of the year as much as we can at consistent times … If we’re able to achieve that, that gets us halfway there.”
> 
> To be fair… nah. MLS has had weekly slots on the ESPN networks and on Spanish-language broadcasters. Next year they’ll have Friday nights on NBCSN starting in June. While those Sunday night at 1 pm ET broadcasts helped no one, the main question, almost 20 years in, remains how do you get more than the faithful to watch.


----------



## weava

carnifex2005 said:


> Their most important games wouldn't be competing with football and it is very easy to play games on Saturday when football usually isn't on. Also ratings are supposed to spike during the playoffs but usually don't because they are up against college and pro football. With a Fall - Spring schedule that wouldn't be the case. Also by playing on Saturday's, if a company like NBC gets the MLS rights, they can promote with their EPL coverage throughout the entire season. Small sample size but since PL coverage began on NBCSN, viewership of the eight MLS games on NBC has increased by 60 percent, while the number of unique visitors to NBC-streamed MLS games has jumped 322 percent.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/28/sports/soccer/premier-league-coverage-pays-off-for-nbc.html


 not competing with football??? the mls championship this year was at the same time as the SEC championship game. and even worse, a local team( mizzou) was in the SEC game which means they probably lost a ton of local viewers.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Re: MLS cup
Congrats to both sides on a generally well-played and entertaining game. I loved the scene and loved the work rate. Tip o' the cap to both teams.

Re: MLS considering a fall-spring calendar
As far as live sporting content goes, MLS is going to face competition in either scenario and lose. In the fall they can't compete with NFL/college football. In the late winter/early spring they'll struggle vs. NBA and NHL. Sure, MLS playoffs may fare well against early MLB games, but at the same time the NBA and NHL will be playing their post-season, as well. Thus, I can't see why a shift would be considered more appealing to a broadcast partner. That may be the case, I simply don't see why.

IF MLS is headed that way they'd best be sure of what it will mean to attending fan support, because while Bobby is correct that the league can't survive on modest 18k/per gate receipts alone the league will also suffer financially, from gameday sales and sponsor appeal, if the shift means a notable drop in attending support.

I'll trust the league for now because their calculated moves the past decade have grown the league tremendously. They've earned that faith. But it's also fact they've achieved that growth via the summer schedule and finding a niche that works in a crowded US sports scene. After all, the world may have it's preferred global calendar, but this is a wholly domestic league.


----------



## carnifex2005

weava said:


> not competing with football??? the mls championship this year was at the same time as the SEC championship game. and even worse, a local team( mizzou) was in the SEC game which means they probably lost a ton of local viewers.


You ignored the part about the most important games of the season won't be up against those games with a Fall-Spring schedule. That is the the big reason that this change is wanted.


----------



## bd popeye

I just don't see the Fall spring schedule working to the MLS benefit..

It is in conflict with NFL, MLB(seasons end & beginning), NBA NHL and college and high school fall ,winter and spring sports. 

And as was pointed out some time ago the winter weather in the northern US is brutal..

GunnerJacket sez;


> I'll trust the league for now because their calculated moves the past decade have grown the league tremendously. They've earned that faith. But it's also fact they've achieved that growth via the summer schedule and finding a niche that works in a crowded US sports scene. After all, the world may have it's preferred global calendar, but this is a wholly domestic league.


Well stated.^^:applause:


----------



## Bobby3

I don't like the idea that we have "four major sports", we don't. We have football and a lot of other things. Some of those other things (baseball, basketball) are more popular than the other things, but they can't be grouped the with football anymore, it's outgrown them. Even people who otherwise don't care about sports watch the NFL on Sundays.

Soccer competes with every other sport anyway, flipping the schedule changes how it competes with them and keeps showpiece games from competing with the NFL and college football's biggest games. There's more growth potential in putting them up against lesser (lesser than football) events.


----------



## Guest

carnifex I agree that MLS hierarchy know what they're doing, but I think playing March-December just works. They probably would get a higher bump in TV money that they wouldn't get staying as is, but it jeopardizes a lot of the benefits of the current schedule. 

They know its a risk. Personally I hope nothing comes of it.


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> I don't. I want Jason Kreis to succeed.
> 
> With the club's connections, he may just be the first American to break into the top tier of European football.


I like Kreis and will gleefully support the club if/when they're free from MCFC. But for now I can't support any club that abides the sugar daddy, "spend our way to trophies" approach. It's an evil hurting the game in the long run. 

Hopefully it will be a beautiful stadium, however.



joezierer said:


> I think moving to a traditional calendar would be a great move as the competition in the spring (early NASCAR, early Baseball, end of Basketball and end of Hockey) is much easier to beat than late college football and late NFL, which are two of the highest rated sports in america.


You're not the only one to think that, and it's entirely possible that such a move would yield opportunities against lesser competition. The question is, though, would that yield more eyes on MLS? In other words, is MLS hurting in the rankings because eyes are on football or simply because not as many people are interested? If it's the latter I'm unsure the move will lure more viewers, because as we've seen there are plenty of options to fill saturday TV slots in the Spring.


----------



## GunnerJacket

bd popeye said:


> By traditional do you mean Fall to Spring? Remember the NCAA Basketball finals dominate US sports in March and early April.. then next you have the NBA playoff..no slouch for popularity and Tv ratings.


Two ways I think the current schedule benefits MLS:

1. During that lull between the NBA/NHL playoffs and the start of football, MLB and MLS are the only major things going on a regular basis. That's essentially a 1-2 month window to command more prime viewing time. True, this gets interrupted by international events, but on the whole it's an opportunity.

2. I seriously wonder if fans could, to the degree asked for by teams and leagues, take in the variety of sports during the Spring. Fans are already asked to watch/pay to see NBA playoffs, NHL playoffs and MLB games at this time, the idea of this being the peak/end of the MLS schedule seems like it's asking a lot of attention from fans. In the fall not only does MLB wind down before MLS but it's post-season involves fewer teams.


People counter with the rankings achieved by Premiership telecasts that time of year, but those are existing, entrenched fans and their viewing games in the early morning EST.


----------



## krudmonk

slipperydog said:


> I don't. I want Jason Kreis to succeed.
> 
> With the club's connections, *he may just be the first American to break into the top tier of European football*.


Who gives a ****? We don't need to keep shipping our personnel overseas just so Europoseurs can drop a few names when some idiot on reddit/youtube/etc besmirches American soccer. The goal is to build a strong culture, not the illusion of one for simply showing off.


----------



## ielag

GunnerJacket said:


> I like Kreis and will gleefully support the club if/when they're free from MCFC. But for now I can't support any club that abides the sugar daddy, "spend our way to trophies" approach. It's an evil hurting the game in the long run.


Except that can't totally be done in MLS, they'll play by the same rules as Red Bull and Galaxy, max of 3 designated players. I could care less what they do with their EPL club. They've actually shown a lot of respect already towards U.S. Soccer and MLS by hiring Claudio Reyna and Jason Kreis. Doing the opposite of what Red Bull did when they bought the MetroStars, who thought Euro pixie dust would make them a dominant MLS franchise.

They'll probably also spend a ton of money on the NYCFC academy system, which would be nothing but good news for American soccer too.


----------



## slipperydog

krudmonk said:


> Who gives a ****? We don't need to keep shipping our personnel overseas just so Europoseurs can drop a few names when some idiot on reddit/youtube/etc besmirches American soccer. The goal is to build a strong culture, not the illusion of one for simply showing off.


If you can't see how having an American coach in Europe can benefit the growth of American soccer, I suggest you start following another sport.



ielag said:


> Except that can't totally be done in MLS, they'll play by the same rules as Red Bull and Galaxy, max of 3 designated players. I could care less what they do with their EPL club. They've actually shown a lot of respect already towards U.S. Soccer and MLS by hiring Claudio Reyna and Jason Kreis. Doing the opposite of what Red Bull did when they bought the MetroStars, who thought Euro pixie dust would make them a dominant MLS franchise.
> 
> They'll probably also spend a ton of money on the NYCFC academy system, which would be nothing but good news for American soccer too.


Word.

This "sugar daddy" nonsense is a red herring. Basically every top team in European football tries to spend their way to trophies. Very few use predominantly academy players.


----------



## krudmonk

slipperydog said:


> If you can't see how having an American coach in Europe can benefit the growth of American soccer, I suggest you start following another sport.


Oh, so we have a secret agent to find out all those delicious European secrets which magically make them better than us? Better to have a good coach in America so he can groom American players. Any "Yank" in a coaching role over there would be on such a short leash that he'd never have a chance to learn or prove much of anything anyway. Then a bunch of reactionary Eurosnobs would read way too much into the ordeal, leading to a unnecessary mess of doubt and despair.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Miami-Dade commissioners to take first stab at potential soccer stadium

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/12/...-commissioners-to-consider.html#storylink=cpy


In a somewhat amusing story, the Red Bulls starting to take potshots at NYCFC as they're reported close to completing a stadium deal:
http://nypost.com/2013/12/11/new-york-soccer-rivalry-already-brewing/


----------



## slipperydog

krudmonk said:


> Oh, so we have a secret agent to find out all those delicious European secrets which magically make them better than us? Better to have a good coach in America so he can groom American players. Any "Yank" in a coaching role over there would be on such a short leash that he'd never have a chance to learn or prove much of anything anyway. Then a bunch of reactionary Eurosnobs would read way too much into the ordeal, leading to a unnecessary mess of doubt and despair.


There is an inherent European bias against American coaches and players. Europe is the highest level, it's the major leagues. The more Americans that get a chance to prove themselves on the highest level, the better off the sport will be. Kreis is going to spend the next year in Manchester working with Manuel Pellegrini and Patrick Viera on a daily basis. I don't see that as anything but a net positive. If MCFC didn't invest in the club, that opportunity wouldn't exist. I'm not one for being insular and self-protective.


----------



## master_klon

slipperydog said:


> I don't. I want Jason Kreis to succeed.
> 
> With the club's connections, he may just be the first American to break into the top tier of European football.


Sure, but many Americans focus too much on wanting approval from Europe and I'm not sure why. The US national team is great and the league is enjoyable and is at a good level, just enjoy it as it grows and I'm sure that in the next 10-15 years there will be a US coach in a top European league. 



GunnerJacket said:


> I like Kreis and will gleefully support the club if/when they're free from MCFC. But for now I can't support any club that abides the sugar daddy, "spend our way to trophies" approach. It's an evil hurting the game in the long run.


Sad that people believe this "sugar daddy" nonsense. The owners are a smart bunch and have done great things for Manchester City and for the game, and this move by their owners is a great thing for New York.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Another downtown stadium? Somebody wants one

http://www.bizjournals.com/twinciti...2/mn-united-tour-mls-kansas-city-stadium.html

Deal For Bronx Stadium in Works as Clock Ticks

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/12/n...cer-stadium-in-works-as-clock-ticks.html?_r=0

Bronx soccer stadium deal near Yankee Stadium offers big incentives to Arab firm

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...ent-arab-firm-article-1.1544173#ixzz2nG1gs5a8


----------



## Guest

The Game Is Up said:


> Miami-Dade commissioners to take first stab at potential soccer stadium
> 
> http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/12/...-commissioners-to-consider.html#storylink=cpy
> 
> 
> In a somewhat amusing story, the Red Bulls starting to take potshots at NYCFC as they're reported close to completing a stadium deal:
> http://nypost.com/2013/12/11/new-york-soccer-rivalry-already-brewing/


It would be some year if we had Orlando, downtown Miami and a Bronx stadium all confirmed. One down, two to go. 

Not liking the 25,000 figure being quoted for Miami though. Seems a bit high.


----------



## Guest

Amazing video


----------



## GunnerJacket

ielag said:


> Except that can't totally be done in MLS, they'll play by the same rules as Red Bull and Galaxy, max of 3 designated players. I could care less what they do with their EPL club...
> 
> They'll probably also spend a ton of money on the NYCFC academy system, which would be nothing but good news for American soccer too.





slipperydog said:


> This "sugar daddy" nonsense is a red herring. Basically every top team in European football tries to spend their way to trophies. Very few use predominantly academy players.





master_klon said:


> Sad that people believe this "sugar daddy" nonsense. The owners are a smart bunch and have done great things for Manchester City and for the game, and this move by their owners is a great thing for New York.


Guys, let me clarify my sugar daddy comment so as to put a bow on this discussion.

My comment wasn't concerned about NYCFC spending beyond MLS limits or becoming a Yankees within MLS. In fact, my comment has little to do with NYCFC, at all, save that they will be used as a gateway for which MCFC will tout their brand. THAT is what I don't like. If NYCFC does everything right and with top quality facilities and never, ever hints at any connection with MCFC then call me giddy. 

I consider the over-the-top spending at places like Chelsea and City to be detrimental to the game. Sure, the investors have done wonders for City, but it's come at the expense of clubs incapable of keeping up. IMHO, insular sports leagues should have near-balanced revenues and near-balanced spending for rosters so that no team can simply buy their way to the title. I realize it's an idealist vision but it's a better one to strive for than simply saying "Well, any team can get their own billionaire to challenge PSG/Madrid/etc!" I'd rather try to find a way to reign in the advantages of a ManU or my own Arsenal rather than leave it to chance which owner cares less about his own wealth.

So, as someone born in upstate NY and who knows the value of the NYC market I would love to see an MLS team thrive in that city. I simply wish it was a purely NY team and not a shill for a corporate brand or simply the flip side of another foreign club. That's all. 

I'll reserve further comments for private messages so as not to derail the thread further.


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> Not liking the 25,000 figure being quoted for Miami though. Seems a bit high.


On first glance I'd agree, but given that it's Miami I'm sure they're doing this with an eye towards other events. Hosting foreign clubs, NCAA events, etc. In which case you'd ideally want about 20k+. 

Or this could simply be their way of accommodating that figure after a future expansion. No sense buying just enough land for only 18k if you hope the league will grow in popularity.


----------



## Guest

GunnerJacket said:


> On first glance I'd agree, but given that it's Miami I'm sure they're doing this with an eye towards other events. Hosting foreign clubs, NCAA events, etc. In which case you'd ideally want about 20k+.
> 
> Or this could simply be their way of accommodating that figure after a future expansion. No sense buying just enough land for only 18k if you hope the league will grow in popularity.


True, though there's nothing wrong with building a 20,000 seater with capability for quick expansion. Obviously building a stadium with a roof, which is what I imagine will happen, makes that a bit more difficult and expensive. 

I'd understand the decision, but it'd be a shame if we ended up with another RBA where even 21,000 people doesn't come across all that well on TV.


----------



## Lumbergo

I seriously doubt they are going to build the miami stadium with a roof - they want the views of the city and bay.


----------



## Hia-leah JDM

I'm sure they can manage a roof and city views somehow.


----------



## Guest

Lumbergo said:


> I seriously doubt they are going to build the miami stadium with a roof - they want the views of the city and bay.


You can easily create a gap between the roof and the stands. 

This one in Porto: 










Closer to home, Sporting Park. Something like this, altered or enlarged.


----------



## weava

Lumbergo said:


> I seriously doubt they are going to build the miami stadium with a roof - they want the views of the city and bay.


 like the new Marlins stadium, which has a roof. speaking of which, that stadium is very small for MLB, was is built with soccer in mind?


----------



## Guest

weava said:


> like the new Marlins stadium, which has a roof. speaking of which, that stadium is very small for MLB, was is built with soccer in mind?


I don't think its ever hosted a soccer match. Most Miami games have been at Sun Life. I guess it was built with Marlins lack of fans in mind.


----------



## Lumbergo

Actually, marlins park has hosted soccer a few times.


----------



## Guest

Oh, can't remember any but the picture says otherwise. Still, it wasn't built with soccer in mind that's for sure. It was built for every one of the 19,000 Marlins fans on this planet. Imagine if it was 45k+ instead of 36k? Yikes.


----------



## Suburbanist

What is wrong with the Miami Marlins?


----------



## will101

Suburbanist said:


> What is wrong with the Miami Marlins?


The ownership and management have done everything possible to offend and alienate the entire population of south Florida. The area just built them a stadium that will cost the taxpayers more than $2.5 billion US by the time the bonds are paid off. The team is paying pretty much nothing to play there, which is good, because no one shows up to the games.

Other than that, nothing's wrong.


----------



## bd popeye

will101 said:


> The ownership and management have done everything possible to offend and alienate the entire population of south Florida. The area just built them a stadium that will cost the taxpayers more than $2.5 billion US by the time the bonds are paid off. The team is paying pretty much nothing to play there, which is good, because no one shows up to the games.
> 
> Other than that, nothing's wrong.


100% truth^^

In a sport that averages about 30,000 a game despite playing a total of 2,426 games a season the Miami Marlins averaged a paltry 19,584 a game over 81 home games. And trust me.. some of those fans were invisible.


----------



## joezierer

will101 said:


> The ownership and management have done everything possible to offend and alienate the entire population of south Florida. The area just built them a stadium that will cost the taxpayers more than $2.5 billion US by the time the bonds are paid off. The team is paying pretty much nothing to play there, which is good, because no one shows up to the games.
> 
> Other than that, nothing's wrong.


The Marlins.jpg









Most minor-league teams have higher attendance than the Marlins.


----------



## JJG

joezierer said:


> The Marlins.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most minor-league teams have higher attendance than the Marlins.


It's too a point where you actually feel sorry for the players...


----------



## master_klon

*New York Red Bulls*



> The New York Red Bulls have gone from a team without a training pitch to a side ready to expand their operations. That is the word from Sporting Director Andy Roxburgh who revealed team ownership was looking into investing up to $2 million in construction to build a new home for the club’s academy system – and a possible third division side – on the same parcel of land as their current training grounds.
> 
> ...The new land will also allow New York flexibility with another ambitious endeavor. According to Roxburgh, the team is anxious to begin a third division side (USLPro) which would act as a substitute for the much-maligned MLS reserve system, giving academy players and spot starters the chance to keep up to fitness in case their name is called upon by the first team. As of now, that remains only a long term goal. “Because of the risks and regulations haven’t been resolved – not by us, but generally – our aim is to do it by the end of next year,” he said.
> 
> http://www.empireofsoccer.com/training-possible-division/


*Tampa Bay Rowdies* (NASL)



> In an effort to improve the fan experience at Al Lang Stadium, the club's home venue, Edwards said he will help fund the addition of more than 1,100 seats along the south sideline. A 212-seat Midfielder's Club will feature seats 10 feet from the field that wrap around newly integrated players' benches, and an additional 996 Midfield Reserved seats will offer premium seating at the converted baseball stadium. The new seats are removable and include seat backs, more leg room and a private entrance and restrooms.
> 
> http://www.tampabay.com/sports/soccer/bill-edwards-buys-controlling-interest-in-rowdies/2156802


----------



## Lumbergo

I wish the rowdies could buy Al Lang and build on permanent additions. still, good news.


----------



## slipperydog

Today the various architects presented at the club for the Orlando City stadium.


----------



## Lumbergo

weava said:


> like the new Marlins stadium, which has a roof. speaking of which, that stadium is very small for MLB, was is built with soccer in mind?


from nov 14th, 2013

*Marlins Park could be front-runner as temporary home for potential David Beckham MLS team*

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/11/14/3751080/david-beckham-mls-marlins-park.html



> A facility such as the Miami Dolphins’ Sun Life Stadium in Miami Gardens would be too big, he added, noting that the investors envision crowds of 20,000 to 28,000 fans. The Marlins Park capacity is 36,742 and FIU Stadium seats 23,500.
> 
> Eventually, the team would build its own stadium – with its own money, the mayor emphasized.
> 
> The Marlins Park location would likely please MLS, as it sits on the former Orange Bowl site, which is where the league intended to put the Miami Fusion when it awarded the city that franchise back in 1997. Politics got in the way and the team wound up playing at Lockhart Stadium in Fort Lauderdale. The team folded in 2001.
> 
> Marlins Park also offers the big-time, modern professional feel Beckham is looking for, a stadium replete with dining options, luxury boxes, spacious media facilities, and even a field-side Clevelander bar.
> 
> But it is not ideal as a permanent home because the MLS season overlaps with baseball season, making scheduling complicated. Also, it requires reconfiguration of the field. The stadium hosted a Venezuela vs. Nigeria soccer match last November, and organizers covered the infield dirt, put one goal near the Marlins dugout on the third-base side and the other in front of the visitors’ bullpen in right field.
> 
> Former Miami Mayor Manny Diaz kept the MLS-to-Miami dream alive when in December 2007 he announced plans for a retractable-roof baseball stadium and an adjacent 25,000-seat soccer stadium on the 40-acre Orange Bowl site. The soccer venue was to sit west of the baseball stadium, but that part of the plan was never realized when Marlins Park was built. That land was used for surface parking. It is unclear whether a permanent soccer venue could still be built there.
> 
> The Marlins had no comment on the Beckham visit, said team spokesman Matt Roebuck.
















































---------------

I know it would probably never happen but putting additional seating in the left outfield would make this a pretty intimate stadium for soccer. the angle of the first base seats is not nearly as bad as some other baseball stadiums that have hosted soccer. having the field run down the 3rd baseline instead of first would also allow many of those right outfield seats to be used - in current configuration they can not see one of the goals.


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## JJG

Lumbergo said:


> from nov 14th, 2013
> 
> *Marlins Park could be front-runner as temporary home for potential David Beckham MLS team*
> 
> http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/11/14/3751080/david-beckham-mls-marlins-park.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------
> 
> I know it would probably never happen but putting additional seating in the left outfield would make this a pretty intimate stadium for soccer. the angle of the first base seats is not nearly as bad as some other baseball stadiums that have hosted soccer. having the field run down the 3rd baseline instead of first would also allow many of those right outfield seats to be used - in current configuration they can not see one of the goals.


Who knows?

They may actually draw more than the Marlins, themselves...


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## master_klon

Maybe another owner would do that but I can't see David Beckham using Marlins Park as a temporary venue.


----------



## master_klon

Chicago Fire to build first-of-its-kind soccer center in the heart of Chicago










Opening in summer 2014.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Lumbergo said:


> from nov 14th, 2013
> 
> *Marlins Park could be front-runner as temporary home for potential David Beckham MLS team*


Dear. God. No.

It's bad enough that NYCFC will likely be in Yankees Stadium for a couple years that MLS cannot endure having too many teams again residing outside of appropriate venues. At least RFK stadium is a known condition subject to change and when NE is viewed on TV the venue looks fine, just empty. This stadium, which is already bordering on comical with their novelty outfield, would look awful hosting soccer on TV and would exude the exact opposite of the image and brand appeal MLS has worked so hard to create.

Miami will have enough obstacles to over come as it is, please don't add to that situation by bringing this hot mess into the picture.

Now, if they want to redevelop this stadium into a new home for MLS and the Hurricanes then have at it, but please, no more baseball field compromises.


----------



## WesTexas

MLS is starting to gain more and more ground in the states. The clubs are turning around and investing more money into develpment leagues and junior soccer. It gives allot of hope to the future of the MLS getting bigger and the US Soccer team improving.


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## rantanamo

GunnerJacket said:


> Dear. God. No.
> 
> It's bad enough that NYCFC will likely be in Yankees Stadium for a couple years that MLS cannot endure having too many teams again residing outside of appropriate venues. At least RFK stadium is a known condition subject to change and when NE is viewed on TV the venue looks fine, just empty. This stadium, which is already bordering on comical with their novelty outfield, would look awful hosting soccer on TV and would exude the exact opposite of the image and brand appeal MLS has worked so hard to create.
> 
> Miami will have enough obstacles to over come as it is, please don't add to that situation by bringing this hot mess into the picture.
> 
> Now, if they want to redevelop this stadium into a new home for MLS and the Hurricanes then have at it, but please, no more baseball field compromises.


perhaps I'm wrong, but I read temporary.


----------



## will101

rantanamo said:


> perhaps I'm wrong, but I read temporary.


I read it, too. And Yankee Stadium has to be a nicer _temporary_ venue than Buck Shaw Stadium.


----------



## ObiUbamba

master_klon said:


> *New York Red Bulls*
> 
> 
> 
> *Tampa Bay Rowdies* (NASL)


I assume that no more baseball will be played at Al Lang since they have added that stand...


----------



## Lumbergo

rantanamo said:


> perhaps I'm wrong, but I read temporary.




exactly!

I am in no way in favor of having marlins park turn into a permanent situation but if they want an MLS team to succeed in Miami they need to start playing as soon as possible with a stadium in the works. 

if it is announced in the future that Miami will build a SSS but it will be 1-2 years before a team can start playing there - then they need not wait until said stadium is completed. they ought to begin building a fan base immediately and Marlins Park is actually in a good location to begin such an endeavor. 

who knows, maybe Jeffrey Loria will sell the Marlins to Montreal next season and MLS and the University of Miami could work together in redeveloping the stands inside the ballpark to be conducive to Football/Soccer :nuts:


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## master_klon

Portland Timbers original team at Civic Stadium - 1975








Timbers stadium in 2013, now known as Jeld-Wen Field...


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## GunnerJacket

KeanoManu said:


> How many more teams can the league support? It's already more teams than in most European or South American leagues but there's still many gaps on the map.
> 
> Miami and Atlanta seems like certain new cities (right?), but how many more can fit in after that? And where?


There's no particular cap considered but two things come to mind:

- Other major pro leagues in the US/Canada feature about 30 teams. Assuming you've hit the biggest 25 markets or so within that number then beyond that you risk simple over-saturation with regards to your TV product. 

- MLS and others have hinted at slowing on further expansion for a while after they reach 24, due to limited talent pools and fewer markets with fanbases appearing ready for MLS-levels of investment. So I wouldn't be surprised if we see them stuck at 24 for some time.


> Is there a ban for pro teams in Las Vegas?


Not outright, but the other pro leagues shun Las Vegas for fear of more direct influences from the gambling industry, real or perceived. And by this they don't mean the literal proximity of the game but rather being subject to Nevada gaming laws. 



> And shouldn't Chivas be moved? Low attendances and owned by a foreign team with no local roots.


According to most message board pundits, yes. According to the team's owners, no. According to MLS, "Let's wait and see."



> Likewise, I think it's a very bad idea to allow Manchester City to buy their way into the league.


I agree and said similar things with regards to Chivas and Red Bull, but regrettably MLS wants/needs committed and wealthy owners.


----------



## SVB28

GunnerJacket said:


> MLS knows that without big TV money they need to brood fans through matchday experiences. This means doing what you can to lure people in through freebies, special packages, etc.


That is true for some teams at home, but the fans that travel to away games aren't exactly fans that need to be won over. (assuming you are talking about fans going to away games)


----------



## weava

KeanoManu said:


> *How many more teams can the league support?* It's already more teams than in most European or South American leagues but there's still many gaps on the map.
> 
> Miami and Atlanta seems like certain new cities (right?), but how many more can fit in after that? And where?
> 
> Is there a ban for pro teams in Las Vegas? None of the pro leagues have a team there even though it's a city of almost two million (+ tourists all year around).
> 
> And shouldn't Chivas be moved? Low attendances and owned by a foreign team with no local roots.
> 
> Likewise, I think it's a very bad idea to allow Manchester City to buy their way into the league. Apart from that being a disgraceful team it does not seem very professional when other teams own teams that are more or less their reserve team in the league.
> 
> Not sure if this is off topic or not. There seem to be plenty of general discussion about the league in this thread.



There are around 130 Divison 1 NCAA football teams, around 330 D1 NCAA basketball teams. The US could support HUGE leagues but maximizing TV revenue will always limit too many new teams from being allowed since it will diminish the TV payout per team. We are seeing this happening with the college conference realignment being completely TV money driven. While there could be 40-50 cities that could fill a 20,000 seat stadium, it will never happen unless the MLS keeps making most of its money at the local level where having more teams doesn't effect the current owners profits, but if TV ratings actually start getting big then the sports own popularity will limit new teams because the current owners won't want to split the pie more ways and decrease their revenue, a catch 22 to growing the sport.


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## Kerrybai

Not all European leagues are restricted to 20 teams. The English Championship supports 24 teams who use the round robin format and then playoffs at the end of the season. In total a team could end up playing 48 league games.

Soccer teams have squads of up to 25 players so I don't see the need to use a conference system over a round robin format for the entire league.


----------



## MarkJF

Kerrybai said:


> Not all European leagues are restricted to 20 teams. The English Championship supports 24 teams who use the round robin format and then playoffs at the end of the season. In total a team could end up playing 48 league games.


Isn't the English 2nd tier the 3rd best supported league in Europe?

English League 1 and 2 also have 24 full time pro clubs each, I'll be attending an L1 (3rd tier) game tomorrow, a crowd of 18k is expected. I think there is a perception (in the UK) of that there is PL football, with it's gazillionaires and foreigners, then "real" football, the Championship and below, arguably far more exciting than the PL such is the competitiveness of just about every team. 

In the future I hope the NASL not to be seen as a (very) poor relation to MLS and to involve smaller distances and sell local rivalry. If towns in the UK can support pro clubs with populations of less than 50k then the sky is the limit for the USA.

Exciting times!

master_klon, great 1975 pic, thank you, do you have names for the players?


----------



## BoulderGrad

MarkJF said:


> Isn't the English 2nd tier the 3rd best supported league in Europe?
> 
> English League 1 and 2 also have 24 full time pro clubs each, I'll be attending an L1 (3rd tier) game tomorrow, a crowd of 18k is expected. I think there is a perception (in the UK) of that there is PL football, with it's gazillionaires and foreigners, then "real" football, the Championship and below, arguably far more exciting than the PL such is the competitiveness of just about every team.
> 
> In the future I hope the NASL not to be seen as a (very) poor relation to MLS and to involve smaller distances and sell local rivalry. If towns in the UK can support pro clubs with populations of less than 50k then the sky is the limit for the USA.
> 
> Exciting times!
> 
> master_klon, great 1975 pic, thank you, do you have names for the players?


The Championship is 8th in attendance behind the Budesliga, EPL, La Liga, Serie A, Eredivisie, and Ligue 1

Still pretty impressive tho.


----------



## master_klon

MarkJF said:


> master_klon, great 1975 pic, thank you, do you have names for the players?


Yes, here's a website you might find interesting:

http://www.nasljerseys.com/Rosters/Timbers_Rosters.htm

The Timbers inaugural team featured numerous players and coaches with Aston Villa roots:

http://www.timbers.com/news/2012/07/shared-history-portlands-ties-aston-villa-go-back-thirty-years


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## MarkJF

Thanks, it was the number 9, I couldn't put a name to his face. Peter Withe! Thanks for the links.


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## will101

I recognize some of those names, from seeing the old Timbers play the old Earthquakes in the mid to late 70s.


----------



## Lumbergo

I agree but good luck convincing any of the major networks or cable providers of that. I would cancel my cable subscription in a heartbeat if I could stream live sports in hd.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Gray officials propose forgoing taxes for D.C. United stadium in exchange for revenue cut

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...d36f94-6bef-11e3-b405-7e360f7e9fd2_story.html


----------



## boyerling3

Are there investors hoping to place a team in Las Vegas? Most people that invest in Vegas seem to try to capitalize on the visitors from elsewhere so perhaps that leaves a hole in the city that a MLS franchise could fill. They might be trying to see what happens with the PDL Mobsters next year. I think there could be some parallels with Orlando in that both are primarily pro-sports deficient cities that are best known as leisure travel destinations. Better see how Orlando goes first.


----------



## robertee

^^

Earthquakes Stadium update (from Twitter):










Panoramic shot of the site:


----------



## isaidso

GunnerJacket said:


> There's no particular cap considered but two things come to mind:
> 
> - Other major pro leagues in the US/Canada feature about 30 teams. Assuming you've hit the biggest 25 markets or so within that number then beyond that you risk simple over-saturation with regards to your TV product.
> 
> - MLS and others have hinted at slowing on further expansion for a while after they reach 24, due to limited talent pools and fewer markets with fanbases appearing ready for MLS-levels of investment. So I wouldn't be surprised if we see them stuck at 24 for some time.


What strikes me is the potential of MLS despite soccer's lower status in Canada and the United States. Due to there only being 1 top soccer league serving these 2 countries, it's not hard to see this league becoming a potent force in the soccer world one day.

Europe's soccer map is balkanized into national leagues. Take La Liga in Spain. It has 20 teams serving 46 million Spaniards or 1 for every 2.3 million people. Even if MLS expands to 36 teams one day that works out to 1 team for every 10 million people in Canada-US. MLS could remain 4th or 5th in terms of popularity here and still outdraw La Liga's television audience, merchandise sales, etc. Europeans would be incensed to see MLS one day out bid them for the world's top talent, but it could easily happen. 

MLS' strength is the size of this market rather than the popularity of soccer. Canadians know all too well how the CFL was marginalized in the age of television by the NFL simply for existing in a home market 9 times smaller. The CFL and NFL were on a rather even footing in the 1950s, but the NFL zoomed ahead fueled by massive US television revenues. 

It's a far more even playing field in this instance, but I'd be worried if I were a European soccer fan. Size matters and MLS could potentially pick off each Euro league one by one.


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## MarkJF

isaidso said:


> . Europeans would be incensed to see MLS one day out bid them for the world's top talent, but it could easily happen.


Good post and good luck to the MLS, but the above is plain wrong. A European takes little interest outside of his own club or top league, or the very biggest clubs worldwide, I seriously doubt fans here would be "incensed"! I've never heard anything but goodwill expressed towards the MLS and a desire for it to succeed.

Within the past 15 years Seria A, the PL or La Liga have been accepted as the "best" league. At the moment the PL has the money, but, it still doesn't have Messi, Ronaldo and now not Bale. It's ever changing.................

I don't think it's case of "out-bidding" either, because the very best talent, the Ronaldo's and Bale's don't cost anything, their merchandising pays for them and it can only do that at a power house club, (with a worldwide fan base, particularly in Asia) and there are only a handful of those worldwide.


----------



## Guest

isaidso said:


> What strikes me is the potential of MLS despite soccer's lower status in Canada and the United States. Due to there only being 1 top soccer league serving these 2 countries, it's not hard to see this league becoming a potent force in the soccer world one day.
> 
> Europe's soccer map is balkanized into national leagues. Take La Liga in Spain. It has 20 teams serving 46 million Spaniards or 1 for every 2.3 million people. Even if MLS expands to 36 teams one day that works out to 1 team for every 10 million people in Canada-US. MLS could remain 4th or 5th in terms of popularity here and still outdraw La Liga's television audience, merchandise sales, etc. Europeans would be incensed to see MLS one day out bid them for the world's top talent, but it could easily happen.
> 
> MLS' strength is the size of this market rather than the popularity of soccer. Canadians know all too well how the CFL was marginalized in the age of television by the NFL simply for existing in a home market 9 times smaller. The CFL and NFL were on a rather even footing in the 1950s, but the NFL zoomed ahead fueled by massive US television revenues.
> 
> It's a far more even playing field in this instance, but I'd be worried if I were a European soccer fan. Size matters and MLS could potentially pick off each Euro league one by one.


As someone who follows Euro soccer pretty closely, there is no such thing as a European soccer fan - yet - so no one is losing sleep over MLS' potential.

Most soccer fans in England would struggle to name one player on 18 of the 20 La Liga teams this season. People concentrate almost exclusively on what's happening in their country. They have very little knowledge, outside of the teams they come across in the Champions League. There seems to be very little media coverage of other leagues in most countries. 

MLS already attracts some well known players to these shores. Whether its Henry who was an established player, or a younger guy like Freddy Montero who after leaving Seattle is now one of the top scorers in the Portuguese league. MLS can attract ageing stars and talented youngsters. Attracting the odd player can be done today. 

But the Euro soccer market in the 2011/12 season was USD$26.74 billion. I won't bother looking for American/Canadian figures, but its safe to say its a fraction of this. These types of revenues will ensure that Europe stays the primary destination for most players who are good enough for a very, very long time.

The other thing you're forgetting is that Europe is getting closer and closer to unifying its best clubs. If anyone still believes that by 2030 Barcelona and Manchester United won't be playing on a Saturday afternoon then they're in for a shock. That's not to say that national leagues will be done away with, but that European integration of the biggest clubs will continue apace in the near to medium term future. The worldwide revenues a league featuring the likes of Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Barcelona, Real Madrid, AC Milan, Juventus, PSG, Bayern and so on would be astronomical. This kind of Super League would dominate the rest of this century without question. 

Many of these clubs already have substantial world wide fanbases that are going to be difficult to erode as time goes on. A European Super League of sorts would, in my mind, become the biggest sports league on the planet overnight. 

The Premier League on its own is the most popular (not successful or richest, most popular) sports league on the planet. Multiply its popularity by fiftyfold if you throw in the other European heavyweights to create a Super League.

The bad news for some "nationalists" is that many Europeans seem to be against the idea of a unified Super League. The good news for people like me who don't care about traditions is that its definitely going to happen. Whether it has divisions or its a closed league is up for them to decide, but its coming, and there is nothing MLS will be able to do about it once it happens. It has little chance of matching a fragmented European soccer scene today, let alone a unified one. 

Do I think MLS has the potential to be the one of the biggest leagues in the world? Of course. For exactly the reasons that you stated. No shame in being second or in the pack. To create a successful league in a country where most predicted had no chance of survival should be a positive thing in and of itself.


----------



## Guest

http://www.vikings.com/news/article...ember-27/09b71972-582a-4073-bf49-5318cbe75c76

New Vikings Stadium News and Notes - December 27



> Major League Soccer Update
> 
> As previously discussed, the new Vikings stadium has been designed to accommodate Major League Soccer (MLS) and includes a soccer pitch that will be 121 x72 yards, typical for MLS facilities. Securing an MLS franchise for Minneapolis-St. Paul was an important issue for the Vikings, which is why the team ensured that this opportunity was included in the stadium legislation. Major League Soccer has plans to expand to 24 teams by 2020, and conversations regarding securing a soccer team for this market have heated up between the Vikings and MLS representatives.
> For all the latest information on the new stadium, check out this updated Q&A. For future notifications, join the new stadium waiting list here.


One to keep an eye on. Minnesota would be an ideal candidate for that midwest team MLS is looking at. Then again so would Indi.


----------



## GunnerJacket

isaidso said:


> Due to there only being 1 top soccer league serving these 2 countries, it's not hard to see this league becoming a potent force in the soccer world one day.
> 
> ...Europeans would be incensed to see MLS one day out bid them for the world's top talent, but it could easily happen.
> 
> ...It's a far more even playing field in this instance, but I'd be worried if I were a European soccer fan. Size matters and MLS could potentially pick off each Euro league one by one.





MarkJF said:


> Good post and good luck to the MLS, but the above is plain wrong...
> 
> I don't think it's case of "out-bidding" either, because the very best talent, the Ronaldo's and Bale's don't cost anything, their merchandising pays for them and it can only do that at a power house club, (with a worldwide fan base, particularly in Asia) and there are only a handful of those worldwide.


I think if we refrain from hyperbole and presumption there's more agreement here than first disposed. MLS is no threat to overtake the biggest leagues in the world. At least, not in our lifetime. However, as leagues and clubs have become global commodities it's become harder for smaller nations and leagues to retain their competitiveness, and leagues that once harbored multiple strong programs are now viewed (for real or perceived) as feeder systems for wealthier leagues. Think the Eredivisie, Portuguese Superliga or the Scottish Premiership. 

MLS made it's entry on the backs of strong talent from smaller, weaker Latin American nations where the US could match pay but offer more appealing opportunities. As the league grows it could do the same by piling on the effect mentioned above, luring talent away from smaller leagues in Europe. Perhaps not outbidding the likes of Liverpool or Juventus, but possibly impacting the likes of Sunderland or Betis. 

This won't be a big effect and probably won't impact the fans much at all, but as commodities sports league do have a global heirarchy, a range of values to their sponsors and investors. If MLS does indeed grow it's possible that growth could come at at least some expense to others. It may be small in scale, but fans attention and dollars can only spread so far.



5portsF4n said:


> The other thing you're forgetting is that Europe is getting closer and closer to unifying its best clubs. If anyone still believes that by 2030 Barcelona and Manchester United won't be playing on a Saturday afternoon then they're in for a shock. That's not to say that national leagues will be done away with, but that European integration of the biggest clubs will continue apace in the near to medium term future. The worldwide revenues a league featuring the likes of Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Barcelona, Real Madrid, AC Milan, Juventus, PSG, Bayern and so on would be astronomical. This kind of Super League would dominate the rest of this century without question.
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> The bad news for some "nationalists" is that many Europeans seem to be against the idea of a unified Super League. The good news for people like me who don't care about traditions is that its definitely going to happen. Whether it has divisions or its a closed league is up for them to decide, but its coming...


Huge mistake, IMO, and even as a fan of one of the big clubs I would hate this with every fiber of my being. Who's to say these clubs get to become the defacto representatives of their nations for the rest of time? 10 years ago Chelsea doesn't make the list, do they deserve inclusion simply because their foul owner willingly lost almost $2B in his chase for glory? What about Manchester Dhabi or Monaco? Napoli? And if I'm a fan of, say, Everton or Spurs why the blazes would I support a system that locks me out of Europe's "top flight?" Would I be forced to root for one of those teams? What if I'm a team on the cusp of becoming the next big thing or with a bright future if given the chance? Valencia? What about teams from truly smaller nations?

The idea of the UEFA events is to reward champions and throw the best teams into a mix, giving everyone a chance at glory. If that opportunity is taken away because all we care about is seeing ManU vs. Bayern then in time the appeal will die much like the fading glory of Old Firm matches and Milan derbies. How splendid will that Inter brand appear after spending 10 years at the bottom of this Euro League? If we're so myopic as to think the appeal of these games is based solely on the brand names as opposed to the current pedigree of the clubs then we'll deserve a set up that bites the hand that fed us. 

And if I'm one of those clubs that's been left behind I lobby like crazy to see these Euro League clubs removed from national competitions. _Too good to hang with the rest of us? Fine, enjoy the loss of revenues from fewer gamedays and no more local derbies. We'll crown a true national champion with someone interested in being in our league._

The big clubs already enjoy advantages over most other clubs, but they fail to recognize how much of that wealth comes from being a part of something bigger. Madrid is who they are because of their many domestic honors, not simply because of their name. 

A fixed Euro League? No thanks. In fact, make that Hell no.


----------



## MarkJF

GunnerJacket said:


> A fixed Euro League? No thanks. In fact, make that Hell no.


Won't happen IMO, it's been talked about all my life (50 years then...........), the Champions League satisfies the original proposal and is, in all but name, a fixed Euro League, there will be no surprise winners (or even semi finalists) this year, or next...........many (non involved fans) skip the group matches and only get interested in the KO games.



isaidso said:


> Europe's soccer map is balkanized into national leagues. Take La Liga in Spain. It has 20 teams serving 46 million Spaniards or 1 for every 2.3 million people. Even if MLS expands to 36 teams one day that works out to 1 team for every 10 million people in Canada-US.


No offence, but it's not like that. I don't have the figures to hand but one browse through a Marca would you show you the scale of organised (attended) football in Spain. For instance, the northern region of Asturias has a population of 1m, mainly in 3 cities, after the biggest clubs Gijon, Oviedo and Aviles, the area supports over 20 other teams and no team is currently in La Liga. Spain has x100's of teams serving 46 million citizens, not 20.

The Premier League has 20 teams, the richest, most watched league in the world, but millions more attend lower league games. I think 13.5m attended PL games last year but 16m+ attended games in the Football League. Of course, that's not counting attendances at the many 100's of teams in the pro and semi-pro leagues below..............


----------



## The Game Is Up

This was handed out during the public meeting in The Bronx:










An article from someone who was there:

http://www.fieldofschemes.com/2014/...ting-we-like-soccer-but-whats-in-this-for-us/


----------



## RMB2007

Orlando's new stadium update. Concept images:





































http://www.myfoxorlando.com/story/24494376/mls-stadium-progress-in-downtown-orlando


----------



## krudmonk

Pick your favorite bedpan.


----------



## carnifex2005

RMB2007 said:


> Orlando's new stadium update. Concept images:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.myfoxorlando.com/story/24494376/mls-stadium-progress-in-downtown-orlando


Those aren't new concept images. Those are very old ones that the Orlando ownership said were no longer valid. The new stadium is going to be a lot like Jen-Weld in Portland now.


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## Bori427

So it's going to look like a baseball park turned soccer stadium?


----------



## brewerfan386

> Big names back big-time soccer in Minnesota
> 
> MIKE KASZUBA | Star Tribune | January 11, 2014 | 11:40 PM
> 
> Minnesota has not had a big-time professional soccer team since 1984, but professional soccer’s return to the Twin Cities has suddenly become a hot commodity, as two newsmaking families with deep pockets have positioned themselves for a Major League Soccer (MLS) franchise.
> 
> When the Vikings won approval for a new $1 billion football stadium, team owner Zygi Wilf was considered the front-runner to bring a big-time soccer team to Minnesota.
> 
> Not necessarily anymore.
> 
> While the Vikings have a five-year exclusive right to try to bring a Major League Soccer team to the new stadium, former UnitedHealth Group head Bill McGuire is trying to build support for a separate soccer-only stadium in downtown Minneapolis.
> 
> Already, McGuire is getting help from the Minnesota Twins — McGuire has eyed a site near the Twins’ Target Field — and Twins president David St. Peter said he would “never say never” to having Twins officials invest financially in McGuire’s plans.
> 
> Both the Vikings and McGuire have sidestepped whether a competition is brewing between the two men over major league soccer. But McGuire has upped the ante since 2012 when he purchased Minnesota United FC, the state’s only existing professional soccer team that plays in a league considered a step below MLS in terms of players and drawing power.
> 
> With MLS seeking to expand its 19-team league, and with soccer superstar David Beckham trying to put a team in Miami, the push is on to capitalize on the growing popularity of soccer in Minnesota and recapture the days when large crowds tailgated in the late 1970s when the Minnesota Kicks played at Met Stadium.
> 
> “I don’t know that we’ll ever get into a fight with the Wilfs about MLS,” said Nick Rogers, the president of McGuire’s Minnesota United FC, who downplayed any friction. “Is it possible, theoretically? Sure.”
> 
> Rogers, who is McGuire’s son-in-law, however wanted to make one point clear: *The Wilf family’s exclusive five-year right to bring a MLS team to the Vikings’ new stadium extends only to the stadium, and does not mean the Wilfs have exclusive rights anywhere else in Minnesota.*
> 
> Plans brewing
> 
> For now, both sides are moving in different directions.
> 
> The Vikings have said that, with construction on the team’s stadium underway, the Wilfs will make bringing in a soccer team a higher priority and are “very directly connected” to top MLS executives in New York. *McGuire, meanwhile, has outlined plans for a 15,000- to 25,000-seat soccer stadium to be built near the Minneapolis Farmers Market, a project that will likely need public money.*
> 
> Only last month, the Twins’ St. Peter attended an MLS Cup game with Rogers and McGuire at Kansas City’s new $200 million soccer stadium. Rogers also said he has suggested that McGuire’s Minnesota United play some of its upcoming games at Target Field.
> 
> Vikings spokesman Lester Bagley said the Wilfs spoke with McGuire before McGuire bought Minnesota United, which plays in the North American Soccer League. Bagley added he has also spoken with St. Peter since his trip to Kansas City, and that “we talk all the time about a variety of issues.”
> 
> MLS spokesman Dan Courtemanche said the league would not comment on negotiations — or any competition — to bring a team to Minnesota, but said the market was strong for soccer. “Major League Soccer certainly believes that Minneapolis could be an outstanding market — actually has been.”
> 
> While Bagley was not critical of McGuire’s soccer stadium plan, he said MLS officials have told the Vikings the new football stadium “will [also] work for their league.” Bagley added: “I’m not sure our community has the appetite for another stadium discussion” regarding McGuire’s plan.
> 
> New stadium too big?
> 
> With the public funding of the Vikings stadium still a sore point for many Minnesotans, Bagley’s comments drew some immediate criticism. One critic was Wes Burdine, who co-founded MLS4MN, a local soccer fan group that on Tuesday endorsed a separate soccer-only stadium, and not the Vikings’ plan.
> 
> “That’s kind of a rich comment [from] the people who were part of the big stadium debate,” he said of the Bagley’s remarks regarding the Twin Cities’ stadium “appetite.”
> 
> “We’re not talking about Vikings stadium money” for a new soccer stadium, Burdine said. He added that the Vikings new stadium and its 65,400 seats will be too large for professional soccer.
> 
> Though she said she has not seen details, Minneapolis City Council President Barb Johnson said she might support a downtown soccer stadium — “if it’s privately funded.” But Johnson added that she would not rule out some type of public financing, and added that “what public involvement means can be a lot of different things.”
> 
> Of 14 stadiums built or renovated for MLS teams, two opened in 2012 — in Houston and Montreal. The BBVA Compass Stadium, the new home of the MLS’ Houston Dynamo, seats 22,000 and cost $95 million. While the stadium was privately financed, the city and county purchased the land for the project.
> 
> The 20,341-seat Saputo Stadium in Montreal, the home of the Montreal Impact, cost $50 million and included renovation financing from the province of Quebec.
> 
> Potential obstacles
> 
> There is plenty meanwhile that could dispel a heated competition between McGuire and the Wilfs.
> 
> Rogers said the MLS and the North American Soccer League were both expanding, and he said that other major sports — including the National Football League — took final shape only after mergers. Rogers added that some MLS rules, including a complicated $3 million team salary cap, were “challenging.”
> 
> Bagley also said that the Vikings agree that the team’s exclusive right to land a MLS franchise exists only at the Vikings’ new stadium. The language, which was inserted in the state’s stadium financing legislation, says that the exclusive right exists for five years after the stadium opens and extends only to anyone whose family owns at least 3 percent of the Vikings and then buys a full or partial share of a major league soccer franchise.
> 
> And for now, according to the Twins’ St. Peter, the Twins’ help being given to McGuire consists of only “some level of counsel” regarding playing in a large outdoor stadium. “I think we know a little bit something about marketing, and a little bit something about playing outdoors in the summer,” he said of Target Field, which opened in 2010. “We also [have] gone through a facility development.”
> 
> http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/239777061.html


I really hope the Twins-McGuire plan is the one that is ultimately successful. Seeing a new MLS team trapped in the (very large) ZygiDome (vs. a SSS) would be a shame and somewhat counter productive. IMHO


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## BlazerBlaze

I think he means it will have a large stand for supporters like J-W does for the Timbers Army


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## will101

Bori427 said:


> So it's going to look like a baseball park turned soccer stadium?


Jeld-Wen/Multnomah/Civic Stadium was never a true baseball stadium. It was designed for football, but they never got around to filling in the east side until 2010.


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## Guest

brewerfan386 said:


> I really hope the Twins-McGuire plan is the one that is ultimately successful. Seeing a new MLS team trapped in the (very large) ZygiDome (vs. a SSS) would be a shame and somewhat counter productive. IMHO


Completely agree. More 20k, less 60k stadiums. Unless unavoidable of course.


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## Guest

Bori427 said:


> So it's going to look like a baseball park turned soccer stadium?


That Jeld Wen.. looks like it host the Mariners tomorrow doesnt it?


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## SVB28

brewerfan386 said:


> I really hope the Twins-McGuire plan is the one that is ultimately successful. Seeing a new MLS team trapped in the (very large) ZygiDome (vs. a SSS) would be a shame and somewhat counter productive. IMHO


I agree. Also, it would be the existing team with an existing fan base and not a completely new team/organization.


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## BoulderGrad

brewerfan386 said:


> I really hope the Twins-McGuire plan is the one that is ultimately successful. Seeing a new MLS team trapped in the (very large) ZygiDome (vs. a SSS) would be a shame and somewhat counter productive. IMHO


Mmmeeehhh, not so fast. A couple things on this:

-One of the reasons the Sounders worked so well is they share a marketing team with the Seahawks. Having the same money to throw at an MLS team that an NFL team does can only help. This is of course assuming they DO throw the same resources behind a Vikings owned MLS team. Otherwise, we get another NE Revolution, and no one wants that.

-Tax payers of Minneapolis payed a pretty hefty price for this stadium. Wouldn't you rather they get as much use out of it as possible? Even MLS owners looking to build SSS's have started to come with hands out to local governments. After Minneapolis forked over half a billion dollars to build the ZygiDome, do you think they'd have the stomach to fork over even a little bit for yet another stadium in the downtown region? I think it would be the first example of a region having all 5 major sports franchises in their own stadiums. 

-For the popular teams playing in large stadiums (not a slight against you NE or DC, you're both a victim of bad circumstances), tarping off the upper deck isn't that bad if planned properly. It also of course requires a large crowd, but for that, see point #1. The extra large stadium gives you plenty of room to grow as well.


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## brewerfan386

BoulderGrad said:


> Otherwise, we get another NE Revolution, and no one wants that.


The possibility of this, plus having the club stuck in a DOME (having movable panels and windows ≠ outdoors) during the nice months of the year make a SSS still seem worth it. :cheers:


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## Otto Racecar

While I agree with the sentiment in regard to a full 20,000 seat SSS being better then an empty 60,0000 stadium, I will say that I feel that in order for the league to maximize growth it needs to ensure its clubs have better plans in place for quick and affordable stadium expansion. A recent interview with Tim Lieweke of MLSE was interesting in which he pointed out that BMO field doesn't really have nearly enough seats to make the high priced player acquisitions a good business model.That issue is consistent with the majority of teams in the league.

In my opinion, Portland currently could have a stadium with a capacity of 35,000 and have no problems filling it consistently. Unfortunately, they have no way of undergoing any meaningful expansion at jeld-wen at least from what I understand. I feel that everyone expects MLS to keep growing at a fairly quick pace but many people are not recognizing the stadium infrastructure also can hinder that pace. A 25,000 seat stadium for NYCFC or a 20,000 seat stadium for miami is extremely short sighted in my opinion. Although I do not want to see a situation like dc or new england, I often wonder if seattle would be looked at as an impressive organization if they played in an 18,000 seat SSS. 

Playing in a larger shared stadium in a good location which is proposed for atlanta or minnesota allows the club to grow into a stadium especially if the stadium was built with soccer in mind like seattle currently has. Although I am not stating that all mls teams should automatically go build 40,000 seat stadiums, I will say that as the league continues to grow an 18,000 seat stadium will do nothing but hinder the leagues growth. MLS needs to require teams to look to the future and have expansion plans already in place for when that time comes and in my opinion the time is already here for some teams. In these cases a 40,000 seat stadium with the occasional 5,000 empty seats beats a full 18,000 seat stadium.


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## RMB2007

From @SJEarthquakes:





















> Some exciting stuff happening at the new stadium site today. Stay tuned!


https://twitter.com/SJEarthquakes


----------



## GunnerJacket

Otto Racecar said:


> A recent interview with Tim Lieweke of MLSE was interesting in which he pointed out that BMO field doesn't really have nearly enough seats to make the high priced player acquisitions a good business model.That issue is consistent with the majority of teams in the league.


To be fair, TFC have expansion options even if they're not already designed or cheap, and the business model for MLS teams these days is different and more optimistic than when TFC was founded. Think about it - We're debating the merits of 18k venues being too _small_ for pro soccer in the US/Canada!

Yes, expansion potential needs to be considered and is available at most/all of these smaller soccer-specific stadiums, but few teams have the cash flow to immediately and easily pursue these options until they gain even more financial security. Thus, all the better to start with models they can readily manage and keeps the atmosphere high. I'd favor a smaller but better stadium over larger and cheaper any day.



> In my opinion, Portland currently could have a stadium with a capacity of 35,000 and have no problems filling it consistently. Unfortunately, they have no way of undergoing any meaningful expansion at jeld-wen at least from what I understand.


Even after the remaining potential to open up more seats in the upper bleachers (which have partially obstructed view due to columns for the roof) Portland has a myriad of small options and if the money is there they could pursue the building (athletic club?) that abuts their one shallow end. Perhaps if the club is no so endeared to fans the locals won't mind them building more along the newer side where initially the team was required to retain views into the staium from the street. I've seen at least one concept sketch that places more suites above that tier so that they can replace the existing suites in the corner of the home-plate end with more general seating. 

But again, character and atmosphere matters. The Timbers faithful love the place and they'd rather have a rocking 20-24k stadium than a staid venue with possibly empty seats.



> In these cases a 40,000 seat stadium with the occasional 5,000 empty seats beats a full 18,000 seat stadium.


Two thoughts:

- The number of teams that I believe could come close to 30k on a regular basis is lower than many imagine, I'd say. LA didn't sell-out their attractive stadium in their hey-day, and I've not heard stories from places like Salt Lake or Kansas City espousing of 10k wait lists for tickets. Especially as we're still enjoying the newness of all this it's best to let things settle before assuming everyone has Seattle-like potential. Witness the attendance drop-offs at TFC or the less-than-full showings at NY or Philly.

- Surely teams could offer discounts and deals to lure more fans into larger venues, but MLS tickets are already modest. And offering more tickets at lower prices reduces the return for each seat, because additional seats means a need for additional concessionnaires, restroom facilities, parking, etc. Expansion is only sound when it will pay for itself and then some.


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## Guest

Otto Racecar said:


> In my opinion, Portland currently could have a stadium with a capacity of 35,000 and have no problems filling it consistently... I often wonder if seattle would be looked at as an impressive organization if they played in an 18,000 seat SSS.


Every team that sells out smaller stadiums is looked on as a success, so yes they they would. 

No way Portland could fill 35,000 fornightly. If we take Seattle as a like for like comparison of Portland, we'd find that their capacity would be much better placed at 25,000. 

Seattle: 3,059,000
Portland: 1,850,000

Seattle average: 44,000
Portland average: 20,600

= Population/attendace = 0.014 for Seattle, 0.011 for Portland. If we bump Portland up to match it against Seattle's 0.014, you end up with a capacity of 25,900 for Portland. So if Portland were complete equals to Seattle based on population, available capacity and current attendance, Portland would be averaging 25,900. 

I realize that's a simple way of looking at things, and its never as simple as transplating one into another, but it does provide a platform nonetheless. 

Porltand averaging 35,000 (or 38,000 to be precise) would be the equivalent of Seattle selling out CenturyLink to capacity. Since there's no way Seattle could do that today, its unlikely Portland would be able to sustain 35,000 attendances regularly.


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## BlazerBlaze

5portsF4n said:


> Every team that sells out smaller stadiums is looked on as a success, so yes they they would.
> 
> No way Portland could fill 35,000 fornightly. If we take Seattle as a like for like comparison of Portland, we'd find that their capacity would be much better placed at 25,000.
> 
> Seattle: 3,059,000
> Portland: 1,850,000
> 
> Seattle average: 44,000
> Portland average: 20,600
> 
> = Population/attendace = 0.014 for Seattle, 0.011 for Portland. If we bump Portland up to match it against Seattle's 0.014, you end up with a capacity of 25,900 for Portland. So if Portland were complete equals to Seattle based on population, available capacity and current attendance, Portland would be averaging 25,900.
> 
> I realize that's a simple way of looking at things, and its never as simple as transplating one into another, but it does provide a platform nonetheless.
> 
> Porltand averaging 35,000 (or 38,000 to be precise) would be the equivalent of Seattle selling out CenturyLink to capacity. Since there's no way Seattle could do that today, its unlikely Portland would be able to sustain 35,000 attendances regularly.


Problem with that is you're assuming that Portland and Seattle have the same % of soccer fans in their population. I think it would safe to say that Portland actually has a higher % due to their demographics (hipster capitol of the world, and I say this not in a negative way as I'm a huge fan of the city)


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## BlazerBlaze

GunnerJacket said:


> Even after the remaining potential to open up more seats in the upper bleachers (which have partially obstructed view due to columns for the roof) Portland has a myriad of small options and if the money is there they could pursue the building (athletic club?) that abuts their one shallow end. Perhaps if the club is no so endeared to fans the locals won't mind them building more along the newer side where initially the team was required to retain views into the staium from the street. I've seen at least one concept sketch that places more suites above that tier so that they can replace the existing suites in the corner of the home-plate end with more general seating.
> 
> But again, character and atmosphere matters. The Timbers faithful love the place and they'd rather have a rocking 20-24k stadium than a staid venue with possibly empty seats.


Out of curiosity where have you seen these renders? I've been trying to find any sort of concepts for a J-W expansion but can't find any.


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## Guest

BlazerBlaze said:


> Problem with that is you're assuming that Portland and Seattle have the same % of soccer fans in their population. I think it would safe to say that Portland actually has a higher % due to their demographics (hipster capitol of the world, and I say this not in a negative way as I'm a huge fan of the city)


I am assuming a lot of things true. But I think that of any two cities, they are a good comparison, particularly as they also have similarly located stadiums on top of cultural and historical similarities with soccer.


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## Topher51

5portsF4n said:


> Not sure if serious.


I lived in metro DC from 2002-2012, so yes, I know the area and yes, I am serious. The District gets much of their tax revenue from VA and MD residents commuting into and working in the District, as well as spending their disposable income in the District. The approval of DC residents for something like this isn't the only barometer, or even the most important one.


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## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> Leaning towards seeing Atlanta get left out altogether.
> 
> ....
> 
> Actually Miami, Orlando, San Antonio, Atlanta combo would be a veritable nightmare. We're two down, lets not make it 4 for 4.


I'm afraid to ask, but why?


----------



## slipperydog

LA Galaxy II was announced today. The club will participate in USL Pro during the 2014 season.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...form-own-usl-pro-franchise-named-la-galaxy-ii


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## Guest

GunnerJacket said:


> I'm afraid to ask, but why?


I mentioned the hot weather in the original post. Sacramento does have hot days, but a Sacramento/Minneapolis (or Indianapolis) would be easier on the players than San Antonio/Atlanta. And with Miami and Orlando coming in, maybe its overkill. 

Weather might not be the first consideration for most people, myself included, but having seen enough games from the hot weather markets its not exactly kind to the sport.


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## BlazerBlaze

GunnerJacket said:


> I'm afraid to ask, but why?


Blank seems to be clutching his wallet. I personally think he wasn't aware/willing to put all of the extras of owning a team together like the development academy and such. Plus he's having to shell out an extra $200 million for the stadium than originally planned. As much as I want us to get a team, it just seems like Blank isn't dedicated enough or else there would of been more word by now.


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## GunnerJacket

BlazerBlaze said:


> Plus he's having to shell out an extra $200 million for the stadium than originally planned. As much as I want us to get a team, it just seems like Blank isn't dedicated enough or else there would of been more word by now.


 If anything the added expense for the stadium, which comes regardless of MLS plans, makes the idea of a 2nd tenant all the more desirable. As for the lack of any news I wouldn't fret - The team can't play until 2017 at the earliest anyway, and with MLS' new TV contract established there's no urgency from the league. 

Doesn't mean ATL is guaranteed, I simply haven't heard anything to suggest a definitive No either.


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## mamangvilla

San Antonio, Indy, and Minneapolis/Atlanta are IMO the best candidates to fill the space.

Miami have had their chance with the Fusion and they blew it, aside from big name potential owner there is no proven interest from the population. Meanwhile San Antonio had already proven that they have the mean to make it in the big league (fans support, stadium plan, owner, etc), Minneapolis and Atlanta are building new stadiums from scratch with soccer in mind not some football stadium modified to fit a soccer pitch, and Indy Eleven remarkably sold 7000 season tickets before even playing a game.


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## Guest

mamangvilla said:


> San Antonio, Indy, and Minneapolis/Atlanta are IMO the best candidates to fill the space.
> 
> Miami have had their chance with the Fusion and they blew it, aside from big name potential owner there is no proven interest from the population. Meanwhile San Antonio had already proven that they have the mean to make it in the big league (fans support, stadium plan, owner, etc), Minneapolis and Atlanta are building new stadiums from scratch with soccer in mind not some football stadium modified to fit a soccer pitch, and Indy Eleven remarkably sold 7000 season tickets before even playing a game.


Miami is dead on certified to get a franchise. I've read rumors that the announcement will be within a week or so.


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## slipperydog

Toronto FC set for 'EPL style' stadium

http://soccerly.com/article/Kubani/toronto-fc-set-for-epl-style-stadium


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## Lumbergo

5portsF4n said:


> Miami is dead on certified to get a franchise. I've read rumors that the announcement will be within a week or so.



if Miami is done right, it will be a tremendous success. 
if not, it will fail miserably. again.
there is no middle ground in that market, especially since they will be creating a team from nothing.
i'm honestly not getting my hopes up but best of luck to Beckham and Miami.

(I still think the Ft Lauderdale Strikers would have been a better option but I get it - they're not Miami. Tampa Bay also has decent support but at this point they are too close to Orlando so that will probably never happen.)

for Miami to work - the stadium HAS TO BE DOWNTOWN. it needs to be a destination for people but still with areas around it for people to go before/after matches. just look at the Miami Heat and the american airlines arena. you can't beat that shit. a nearby metrorail connection is also a must.

I think the port location is probably the best, but even that isn't ideal (no rail connection - yet)


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## will101

The Earthquakes have announced that the annual game against the LA Galaxy at Stanford will be on Saturday, June 28 at 7:30 p.m. There was a special presale of tickets through Visa today, and the general public will be able to purchase tickets tomorrow. This means there will be a five week interval between the games at Stanford and Levi's Stadium. The two matches are expected to draw close to 120,000 total spectators.

http://www.sjearthquakes.com/news/2014/01/quakes-vs-galaxy-stanford-kick-730-pm


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## ElDudarinodotcom

I'm loving the rectangular roof-line of the new Earthquakes stadium. That's something that is commonplace in Europe, but pretty unique in the US. I'm used to seeing rounded corners and smooth lines.


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## will101

ElDudarinodotcom said:


> I'm loving the rectangular roof-line of the new Earthquakes stadium. That's something that is commonplace in Europe, but pretty unique in the US. I'm used to seeing rounded corners and smooth lines.


I'm not sure if there was a specific reason for that, or if it was just cheaper. It's kind of a weird juxtaposition, this stadium going up for $65 million and corners cut (metaphorically) everywhere, and about four miles north, the Niners spending 20 times as much on their grand palace.


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## RMB2007

Any idea what the capacity of the Earthquakes new stadium would be if it was complete on all sides?

Liking the sound of Toronto's plans, 'cause their stadium is pretty basic at the moment, especially the limited cover.


----------



## Guest

will101 said:


> *I'm not sure if there was a specific reason for that, or if it was just cheaper.* It's kind of a weird juxtaposition, this stadium going up for $65 million and corners cut (metaphorically) everywhere, and about four miles north, the Niners spending 20 times as much on their grand palace.


Design choice? Not sure there really needs to be a specific reason for having a curved/angled roof. The new design with the cornered roof looks much more sophisticated than the original design I think. Though that's assuming we're talking about the outer edge of the roof. 

If we're talking about the inner edge of the roof, the new concept pics aren't congruent with what's available in the seating chart on the Quakes website. If you go to think link: http://www.seats3d.com/mls/san_jose_earthquakes/#/level_1/, just before it fades out to remove the roof, you'll notice that the inner edge of the roof (so the part above the playing surface) is still curved, even though the concept image I've placed below shows it as being cornered. 

This was the original design:










The new one:


----------



## carnifex2005

Here's the new Quakes logo and kit...


















Rather bland.


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## Guest

The logo is MUCH better, though I've never liked seeing 1970's styled soccer balls on logos. An improvement nevertheless. The kit will improve with time I think.


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## master_klon

Very disappointed with the Quakes logo. Such a good opportunity for them to step up to MLS 2.0 and then they take the mickey with this USL Pro style logo.


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## MarkJF

5portsF4n said:


> The logo is MUCH better, though I've never liked seeing 1970's styled soccer balls on logos. An improvement nevertheless.


I am 50 and can't get enough of the iconic 1970 WC ball.  The league supplied my junior team with them this year and the kids love them. I quite like he logo it's reminiscent of German ones, it's a strong and clear design.




5portsF4n said:


> The kit will improve with time I think.


Only because familiarity will make people forget that they are both, another example of desperately bland colour/design.


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## Guest

In one of the podcasts of Extra Time on MLSsoccer.com, they had a conversation with the head of Sacramento Republic, another of these minor league baseball guys investing in soccer. One of the things he mentioned about the stadium was the MLS told them to find a different solution when they wanted to go down the route of lodging at a college stadium, suggesting that MLS are keen on the market. The college stadium had smaller dimensions, prompting MLS to suggest a different stadium. The fact that they had a word suggests they see similar opportunities in Sacramento to Orlando. 

The $3m facility, seating 8,000, will be ready in April or so. It was approved in the last few days I believe. It is 2 miles from downtown Sacramento. Dimensions are 120 by 80 IIRC.


----------



## Guest

NYT and other sources reporting Miami will be introduced to the league on Wednesday 10am, to be streamed on MLSsoccer.com. Garber and Beckham in attendance, so it wont be a dreaded stadium update only. 

Come on Miami International FC...


----------



## slipperydog

The previous leaked info on the International Champions Cup was incorrect. The official announcement and venues were announced today for the 2014 tournament this summer.











Cities to include: Phoenix, Denver, D.C., Charlotte, Dallas, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Chicago, New York/ New Jersey and Miami


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## GunnerJacket

Ugh. Should rename it the International Bandwagon Fans Cup. On the brightside hopefully many of their players, already weary from the World Cup, will pick up knocks and dings that will cause their side to struggle in games that matter. 

I really wish there was a way FIFA could minimize these things.


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## tinyslam

"These things" allow people like myself to experience European soccer in person without having to fly over an ocean. Plus the teams like them because they expand their markets and increase their corperate visibility. And they are bandwagon clubs because these are the clubs that market their brand internationally and have had success with it. Your not going to see a Hull City or some second tier German team in there because they are more focused on domestic popularity or other objectives.


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## Rev Stickleback

GunnerJacket said:


> Ugh. Should rename it the International Bandwagon Fans Cup. On the brightside hopefully many of their players, already weary from the World Cup, will pick up knocks and dings that will cause their side to struggle in games that matter.
> 
> I really wish there was a way FIFA could minimize these things.


Clubs have always played pre-season games. They just didn't used to play overseas so often.

Clubs like Liverpool just see playing in the USA, Japan and Malaysia as being more beneficial than arranging games against Tranmere, Crewe and Preston, like in the past.


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## GunnerJacket

You're preaching to the choir, gents. I understand exactly why they do it, why it makes business sense and I don't begrudge them the right to milk the shallow passions of millions of impressionable minions. Especially for teams like Man City, trying to convince the world they're bigger than their actual pedigree, such tours are a vital part of brainwashing the consumer masses. Even my favorite club, Arsenal, has done this in Asia. I get it.

That doesn't mean I have to enjoy it or can't see through the transparency of this shilling. We're being pumped a steady diet of currently popular brands because we can't think for ourselves and are obliged to show up and imply only a few teams are worth watching. It's the sporting equivalent of pop radio trying to convince me Kesha is talented because that's who they want to play. Nevermind these clubs already enjoy financial advantages over their peers. Nevermind how this detracts from the appeal and attention given to domestic leagues. 

If you're going to all the pomp and piety of throwing this false trophy around at least mix up the teams to much greater degrees and invite teams that fans don't know much about but could use the extra hype. Aston Villa, Valencia, Bremen, etc. Call me old and bitter, I'm simply sick of seeing the sport and these brands becoming more and more about the business and less about the game. So the fans can root for who they want. I'll be rooting for Toure and Ronaldo to break their legs in a meaningless contest because that would be karma.


----------



## tinyslam

I agree with you (except about the breaking legs lol) it is unfortunate that sports are merely businesses now a days, but that is the world we live in. Teams with bigger images get more money and better players which give them bigger images and more money etc. I also wouldn't mind seeing different teams in the Guinness Champions Cup. I got to see the two games at Met Life last year and they were pretty fun.

I'm not sure on the 'Quakes logo yet but I will give it some time


----------



## RFSK

GunnerJacket said:


> You're preaching to the choir, gents. I understand exactly why they do it, why it makes business sense and I don't begrudge them the right to milk the shallow passions of millions of impressionable minions. Especially for teams like Man City, trying to convince the world they're bigger than their actual pedigree, such tours are a vital part of brainwashing the consumer masses. Even my favorite club, Arsenal, has done this in Asia. I get it. That doesn't mean I have to enjoy it or can't see through the transparency of this shilling. We're being pumped a steady diet of currently popular brands because we can't think for ourselves and are obliged to show up and imply only a few teams are worth watching. It's the sporting equivalent of pop radio trying to convince me Kesha is talented because that's who they want to play. Nevermind these clubs already enjoy financial advantages over their peers. Nevermind how this detracts from the appeal and attention given to domestic leagues. If you're going to all the pomp and piety of throwing this false trophy around at least mix up the teams to much greater degrees and invite teams that fans don't know much about but could use the extra hype. Aston Villa, Valencia, Bremen, etc. Call me old and bitter, I'm simply sick of seeing the sport and these brands becoming more and more about the business and less about the game. So the fans can root for who they want. I'll be rooting for Toure and Ronaldo to break their legs in a meaningless contest because that would be karma.


It's not Nice to wish for anyones legs to be broken... It just tells more about you.. I just think that you are tired of your self and nothing else...


----------



## GunnerJacket

tinyslam said:


> I agree with you (except about the breaking legs lol) it is unfortunate that sports are merely businesses now a days, but that is the world we live in. Teams with bigger images get more money and better players which give them bigger images and more money etc. I also wouldn't mind seeing different teams in the Guinness Champions Cup. I got to see the two games at Met Life last year and they were pretty fun.


I was pretty amenable to these things when they were simply pre-season traveling affairs. It was indeed then just an honest tour to bring the brands and the players to their fans. But I loathe the increasing celebrity status heaped upon players and this concocted tournament adds a false air to it. _"Hey, dad, _____ FC must be special because they were invited to the International Champions Cup!"_ 



RFSK said:


> It's not Nice to wish for anyones legs to be broken... It just tells more about you.. I just think that you are tired of your self and nothing else...


I'll concede it's violent. Happens when I'm angry and venting! It's also not nice that these teams abuse the business side of the game to keep other clubs in a lower caste, or that these owners and players whine while milking us fans, er, consumers dry. But as I should perhaps be a better role model, I'll amend:

"I hope the players involved in this event are so grossly revealed as spoiled prima donnas that the fans become turned off and discover the appeal of smaller clubs and their own local league; That the event does so poorly it's never held again; and that the players are all so fatigued they begin their own domestic campaigns 0-5."

Verily, I'm sure that'll stop the Red Devils from participating.


----------



## Guest

Too bad the new roster still includes Olympiacos. I dont know why Kroenke keeps allowing Wenger to get away with not coming stateside.


----------



## Rev Stickleback

GunnerJacket said:


> You're preaching to the choir, gents. I understand exactly why they do it, why it makes business sense and I don't begrudge them the right to milk the shallow passions of millions of impressionable minions.
> 
> That doesn't mean I have to enjoy it or can't see through the transparency of this shilling. We're being pumped a steady diet of currently popular brands because we can't think for ourselves and are obliged to show up and imply only a few teams are worth watching.


That's not really the "fault" of the clubs though. 

They go abroad because there's demand already there.

They aren't going over making a loss, trying to impose their "brand" on countries. given that the places they go all seem to have growing leagues, it doesn't seem to be having a detrimental impact on domestic leagues anyway.

I can well imagine a lot of players find such trips, playing top sides, more interesting than a Tuesday night friendly in Bournemouth.

The bad thing really is having it packaged as a meaningful tournament, when the players will be treating the games as a training exercise.


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> Too bad the new roster still includes Olympiacos. I dont know why Kroenke keeps allowing Wenger to get away with not coming stateside.


The admins want to travel and foisted the past two trips to Asia onto the team. Wenger hates it and would rather spend the pre-season in someplace quiet and close, like they used to always do in Austria. 



Rev Stickleback said:


> That's not really the "fault" of the clubs though.
> 
> They go abroad because there's demand already there.
> 
> They aren't going over making a loss, trying to impose their "brand" on countries. given that the places they go all seem to have growing leagues, it doesn't seem to be having a detrimental impact on domestic leagues anyway.


It's a bit of both, though I agree there are plenty of folks already clamoring for them. But the clubs are doing this, as well, to boost their own merchandise sales and increase the value of sponsorships. Slapping your name on a kit knowing it will be worn on such events adds extra $ for the club.

They're certainly not doing this out of charity.



> I can well imagine a lot of players find such trips, playing top sides, more interesting than a Tuesday night friendly in Bournemouth.


Perfectly understandable, but it's debatable whether that's the best thing for training. Plus the more these elite clubs hang out with only other elite clubs, it becomes harder and harder for the other clubs to break into the clique. That's why it's become a novelty for wealthy owners to buy in, and why success-starved fans lap it up.

Okay, I'm done thread-jacking. Sorry for getting emotional. Carry on.


----------



## krudmonk

will101 said:


> I've been thinking about it for days, and it's not growing on me. It looks like a corporate logo designed by marketing people afraid to offend anyone.


No, it looks like a clean and mature identity. The influnce is more South American than European, which I think a ton of people don't get. The abstract representations and typeface are very reminiscent of their founding era.


----------



## Guest

GunnerJacket said:


> The admins want to travel and foisted the past two trips to Asia onto the team. Wenger hates it and would rather spend the pre-season in someplace quiet and close, like they used to always do in Austria.


And you highlighted the issue there. With Kroenke Arsenal really have no excuse for going to South East Asia over the US. I know Thailand broadcasters pays as much money as NBC for BPL, but the American consumer has more to offer than the average Thai. The sport may be wildly popular in South east Asia but the commercial opportunities still have to tip North America ahead. 

I just had a look but apparently there was talk in December that Arsenal were coming for a pre season tour in the US. You'd think this Cup would be an ideal way to do this, but they seem to be going down a traditional tour route.


----------



## Guest

Sobering article. Seriously if this ends up just being an official announcement, MLS can take a hike. Everyone knows its happening, give us something substantial please. 



> David Beckham and Major League Soccer will announce on Wednesday that he is exercising his option to become the owner of a team in Miami.
> 
> *A final deal to grant the franchise to Beckham could be several months away, with a stadium location and financing still required to win approval from the MLS board for his team to become the league's 22nd club*.
> 
> *"Beckham's announcement will mark the culmination of the start phase," *said Irwin Raij, a sports lawyer who has worked on numerous stadium deals but is not involved in Beckham's plans. "He's committed and now the real negotiations can begin."
> 
> Beckham's investment group and the MLS Commissioner Don Garber are expected to make the announcement on Wednesday morning at Miami's bayfront art museum.
> 
> The former Manchester United and Real Madrid midfielder, who played for the Los Angeles Galaxy, retired as a player last May and holds $25m option in his MLS contract to start a franchise.
> 
> Beckham is already in discussions to lease county-owned land for a 25,000-seat stadium. A search has identified five possible sites in and around downtown Miami, including a waterfront lot next to the port of Miami's cruise ship terminal, potentially putting the new team at the forefront of Miami's tourism landscape. The port site is within walking distance of the NBA's Miami Heat arena and within easy reach of the Miami Beach hotel district.
> 
> MLS has stressed the importance of having a stadium deal, along with a business plan, before it will approve a new team. "We can't go to Miami without the right stadium solution," Garber said in December. "David understands that, the city understands that."
> 
> Beckham has toured Miami twice in recent months with the American Idol creator Simon Fuller, as well as the Bolivian-born billionaire Marcelo Claure, the founder of Miami-based Brightstar Corp, the world's largest wireless distributor and the provider of global services to Apple.


http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/feb/05/david-beckham-mls-miami-stadium


----------



## MarkJF

You tell' em Gunner.  There is not the market for them in Europe now, people are sick of seeing Milan v Barca v ManU v Porto v Chelsea in half meaningful games (CL group stages) never mind meaningless ones. I attended a "Wembley Cup" pre-season 4/5 years ago, one game was Celtic v Barcelona (with Messi), it was a predicted sell out, there were maybe 20k in an 80k stadium and 90% of them were Celtic fans who would travel and pay good money to watch their team paint walls.




5portsF4n said:


> Too bad the new roster still includes Olympiacos.


I'd make the effort to see Olympiacos, likewise Feyenoord, Atletico Madrid, Real Betis, Verona etc But couldn't be bothered to get out of bed for the others even if it was held in my City, it's over familiarity.

Great avatar, I was lucky enough to see him at Real Valladolid.


----------



## Guest

Barcelona vs Celtic in a pre season cup in London is simply not a good barometer. Its the equivalent of having the Denver Broncos play Jacksonville in Pittsburgh in pre season. 

London is home to 13 pro teams, 3 of which are some of the most well known teams on the planet. Its hardly a surprise few turned up. Then again Arsenal always draw well for their Emirates cup, which shows Londoners care about London teams, not Scottish ones. 

Who is tired of Milan v Barca? IIRC, the San Siro has only gotten near capacity for Champions League games this season. CL is by far better attended across most of Europe compared to domestic leagues. The only leagues you dont really see a difference are Germany and England, mostly because stadiums are full in both competitions.

There are lots of people who refuse to see the writing on the wall for European soccer. For these people its going to be a very difficult few decades.


----------



## Otto Racecar

It would have been nice for a MLS squad to be included like the Galaxy was last year. I wonder what the reasoning was for not including this year? Sporting KC not a big enough draw? I feel a lot of people would have had interest in seeing the Galaxy,Seattle,NYRB, or even Toronto match up against these squads.


----------



## slipperydog

Arsenal owner Stan Kroenke planning to launch MLS franchise "LA Gunners".

http://metro.co.uk/2014/02/05/arsen...erican-sister-team-called-la-gunners-4291277/


----------



## mamangvilla

LA doesn't need a third team, besides Kroenke already own the rapids


----------



## willygtoc

If he buy and rebrand Chivas USA i´m fine with that.


----------



## carnifex2005

slipperydog said:


> Arsenal owner Stan Kroenke planning to launch MLS franchise "LA Gunners".
> 
> http://metro.co.uk/2014/02/05/arsen...erican-sister-team-called-la-gunners-4291277/


Yeah, I'm going to call bullshit on that story.


----------



## Ladiesman020

Miami, indi & Detroit could do with teams before another L.A team


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

Lots of activity onsite today in SJ



http://www.sjearthquakes.com/newstadium/webcam%20


----------



## BlazerBlaze

carnifex2005 said:


> Yeah, I'm going to call bullshit on that story.


Yeah, he already owns the Rapids. No way he's going to try to get a 3rd team in LA


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> Arsenal owner Stan Kroenke planning to launch MLS franchise "LA Gunners".
> 
> http://metro.co.uk/2014/02/05/arsen...erican-sister-team-called-la-gunners-4291277/


As an Arsenal fan of near 30 years - Dear God no. No more MLS teams serving as satellite franchises of other clubs or businesses, thank you.


----------



## slipperydog

GunnerJacket said:


> As an Arsenal fan of near 30 years - Dear God no. No more MLS teams serving as satellite franchises of other clubs or businesses, thank you.


In this interview, NYCFC head coach Jason Kreis confirms that the club hopes to take several Manchester City youth players on loan.


----------



## will101

Ladiesman020 said:


> Miami, indi & Detroit could do with teams before another L.A team


I still don't understand why Minneapolis-St. Paul isn't at the top of the list for a new MLS franchise. That area had arguably the best fan support for the old NASL. You should go with the proven fan bases before gambling on new ones.


----------



## will101

ElDudarinodotcom said:


> Lots of activity onsite today in SJ


No kidding. I just checked the webcam, and in the intervening four hours and 20 minutes I can see additions.


----------



## weava

I wonder if that chunk of land Kroenke bought across from the LA forum is for a MLS stadium?


----------



## -Corey-

I wonder why San Diego doesn't have its own team..


----------



## SJAnfield

weava said:


> I wonder if that chunk of land Kroenke bought across from the LA forum is for a MLS stadium?


NFL is no doubt the target. LA Gunners will simply help fill the calendar. Situation much like what Atlanta and Minnesota are looking for, and what Seattle, NE and Vancouver's do.


----------



## Ladiesman020

San Diego Dosent have a team cos it can hardly fund a stadium for the NFL's chargers let alone an MLS team. Any new stadium in SD i would expect it to be able to host NFL & MLS teams


----------



## Hansadyret

willygtoc said:


> If he buy and rebrand Chivas USA i´m fine with that.


Maybe that or Chivas will move (maybe to San Diego)? And Kroenke will come in with a new 2nd team in LA. Or a rebranded Chivas will just play in his new NFL stadium?


----------



## Hansadyret

"LA Gunners" with Glock as shirt sponsor anyone?

I just find it hard to believe they would go with that name though.


----------



## MarkJF

5portsF4n said:


> Barcelona vs Celtic in a pre season cup in London is simply not a good barometer. Its the equivalent of having the Denver Broncos play Jacksonville in Pittsburgh in pre season.
> 
> London is home to 13 pro teams, 3 of which are some of the most well known teams on the planet. Its hardly a surprise few turned up. Then again Arsenal always draw well for their Emirates cup, which shows Londoners care about London teams, not Scottish ones.


Not quite, I should have made clearer, Tottenham Hotspur were also in the 4 team tournament, in terms of fan base they are London's 2nd biggest team (regardless of stadium capacity) and Celtic are an anomaly, they can pull in 1000's from any major City. So you have Spurs, Celtic and Barca with Lionel Messi in the flesh. If it wasn't for Celtic, it would have been a disaster. 

10 years ago the stadium would have been full via Messi's name alone, over familiarity can satiate the thirst of even the most avid footie fan.


----------



## master_klon

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...i-partner-marcelo-claure-says-team-hopes-begi



> A site at PortMiami has been reported for months as the preferred destination for the construction of Beckham’s ownership group’s soccer-specific stadium, and Claure confirmed that on Wednesday but added that work still needs to be done with the local government in order to finalize that plan.
> 
> “It’s close to [American Airlines] Arena, there’s parking, it’s a site that has a view of the ocean that few teams in the world have,” said Claure as he briefly glanced at the area in the distance. “It goes with the [soccer] tradition of being able to walk to the stadium. It’s close to downtown.
> 
> “There are a lot of good things, but we are respectful of the fact that it won’t be easy for us to get the city to approve it, so we’re looking at approximately 30 other locations as well.”


----------



## Guest

The Miami announcement was a slap in the face of everyone who has been following this development. I see why it was necessary to do officially announce it, particular as it pertains to getting a stadium deal done, but man what a damp squib. 



slipperydog said:


> Arsenal owner Stan Kroenke planning to launch MLS franchise "LA Gunners".
> 
> http://metro.co.uk/2014/02/05/arsen...erican-sister-team-called-la-gunners-4291277/


It's not April yet, but I laughed out loud when I read your post. 



weava said:


> I wonder if that chunk of land Kroenke bought across from the LA forum is for a MLS stadium?


It's mostly definitely for NFL purposes. He already owns Arsenal, one of the most valuable teams in world soccer.
If this has any grain of truth - and I sincerely doubt it - it seems like a ploy to get something done in LA. He also already owns the Colorado Rapids of MLS, so spending another $70m+ to acquire a team to play in the NFL off season seems too good to be true. 

Attaching an MLS team to build the argument for a large stadium (though I question whether its necessary or that persuasive) has been done before, most recently in Minnesota. Whether or not MLS gets a team out of it at the end is another matter altogether. 



MarkJF said:


> Not quite, I should have made clearer, Tottenham Hotspur were also in the 4 team tournament, in terms of fan base they are London's 2nd biggest team (regardless of stadium capacity) and Celtic are an anomaly, they can pull in 1000's from any major City. So you have Spurs, Celtic and Barca with Lionel Messi in the flesh. If it wasn't for Celtic, it would have been a disaster.
> 
> 10 years ago the stadium would have been full via Messi's name alone, over familiarity can satiate the thirst of even the most avid footie fan.


I hear what you're saying. Over familiarity could also be a form of consumer savviness. People in developing soccer regions are naturally going to be excited when teams they follow give them the opportunity to see them live in person. Those in established regions like England are less likely to be thrilled about seeing a friendly between two foreign teams - however big the teams are. If you throw in a London team like Arsenal in the mix, then you see good turnouts. For people that watch Arsenal and others on a weekly basis, a game between PSG and Barcelona might not sound like the best night out. For those in Kansas City or Jakarta, it's a different proposition.


----------



## MarkJF

Miami name betting. 

http://www.skybet.com/football/specials/miami-mls-specials?aff=10406&dcmp=ss_betlink_footpromo


----------



## Kerrybai

Miami Spice lol

Or how about Mufc, or is that just too obvious?


----------



## will101

I always thought the name 'Miami Crocs' worked on more than one level.


----------



## weava

5portsF4n said:


> It's mostly definitely for NFL purposes. He already owns Arsenal, one of the most valuable teams in world soccer.
> If this has any grain of truth - and I sincerely doubt it - it seems like a ploy to get something done in LA. He also already owns the Colorado Rapids of MLS, so spending another $70m+ to acquire a team to play in the NFL off season seems too good to be true.
> 
> Attaching an MLS team to build the argument for a large stadium (though I question whether its necessary or that persuasive) has been done before, most recently in Minnesota. Whether or not MLS gets a team out of it at the end is another matter altogether.


Its not for an NFL team. He already owns the Rams in his home city of St. Louis. He isn't moving the Rams out of the St. Louis metro, this rumor needs to die.


----------



## slipperydog

weava said:


> Its not for an NFL team. He already owns the Rams in his home city of St. Louis. He isn't moving the Rams out of the St. Louis metro, this rumor needs to die.


:|


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

weava said:


> Its not for an NFL team. He already owns the Rams in his home city of St. Louis. He isn't moving the Rams out of the St. Louis metro, this rumor needs to die.


LOL cling to that shred of hope.


----------



## Calvin W

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> LOL cling to that shred of hope.


As much as Los Angeles clinging to the dream of getting an NFL team some day.....:lol:


----------



## Guest

weava said:


> Its not for an NFL team. He already owns the Rams in his home city of St. Louis. He isn't moving the Rams out of the St. Louis metro, this rumor needs to die.


No, you're right, your suggestion was better. Kroenke, who owns Arsenal and Colorado Rapids is going to invest in a 3rd soccer team. Maybe he's moving the Rapids to LA, or maybe he's moving Arsenal to LA :nuts:


----------



## chotu32

Is the US getting a decent soccer stadium anytime soon?

By decent, I mean something with a somewhat acceptable capacity of atleast 30,000


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> No, you're right, your suggestion was better. Kroenke, who owns Arsenal and Colorado Rapids is going to invest in a 3rd soccer team. Maybe he's moving the Rapids to LA, or maybe he's moving Arsenal to LA :nuts:


Well given all this talk of the NFL expanding into London it's only fair the Premiership gets to expand into the US! LA Arsenal! New York City! DC United!

Oh, wait...



chotu32 said:


> Is the US getting a decent soccer stadium anytime soon?
> 
> By decent, I mean something with a somewhat acceptable capacity of atleast 30,000


I won't address the "decent" comment and also assume you mean _other than the NFL venues_.

That being the case it appears the first such appearance will be the renovated BMO field that seems 90% likely to happen if/when MLSE buys the Toronto Argonauts and moves them into the home of TFC. The theories for a NYCFC venue suggest a starting range of 25k, while Orlando and Miami will assuredly be smaller than that. Your next best hope might be if the Galaxy find the wherewithal to move/expand whatever their stadium is called now. (It's no longer the Home Depot Center, correct?) 

Beyond that I think we'll see everything hover in the 18-25k range for a while.


----------



## chotu32

GunnerJacket said:


> I won't address the "decent" comment and also assume you mean _other than the NFL venues_.
> 
> That being the case it appears the first such appearance will be the renovated BMO field that seems 90% likely to happen if/when MLSE buys the Toronto Argonauts and moves them into the home of TFC. The theories for a NYCFC venue suggest a starting range of 25k, while Orlando and Miami will assuredly be smaller than that. Your next best hope might be if the Galaxy find the wherewithal to move/expand whatever their stadium is called now. (It's no longer the Home Depot Center, correct?)
> 
> Beyond that I think we'll see everything hover in the 18-25k range for a while.


So still no intention of building a serious soccer stadium then? 

At the end of the day, this is a nation of 330 million +, we're still treating soccer like it's table tennis or something.


----------



## will101

chotu32 said:


> So still no intention of building a serious soccer stadium then?
> 
> At the end of the day, this is a nation of 330 million +, we're still treating soccer like it's table tennis or something.


No, we're just having to deal with the current financial reality. And the current population is 317,493,047.


----------



## will101

weava said:


> Its not for an NFL team. He already owns the Rams in his home city of St. Louis. He isn't moving the Rams out of the St. Louis metro, this rumor needs to die.


If so, then why is he buying up land near Staples? The rumor won't die because of his actions.


----------



## KeanoManu

Only something like 50 teams in Europe can regularly fill a 30.000 capacity stadium. And football/soccer are more important than religion in most of Europe, while it's AT BEST the fifth most important team sport in the US.

A filled 15.000 stadium are much better than a half-full 30.000 stadium. I think it's a great step that most teams in the MLS are now building, have built or plan to build their own stadium specifically designed for football/soccer. It's a great step forward. I'm a strong believer that the sport will grow very much in the next decade and maybe in 15-20 years we can start talking about building 30.000+ capacity stadiums for most of the teams in the league.


----------



## GunnerJacket

chotu32 said:


> So still no intention of building a serious soccer stadium then?
> 
> At the end of the day, this is a nation of 330 million +, we're still treating soccer like it's table tennis or something.


I'd say the stadiums in Houston, Kansas City, Harrison NJ and elsewhere are quite serious, thank you, they're just small because that's the level of demand. When folks are lining up 30k strong to see live soccer then we'll have venues capable of holding them.

And there are plenty of clubs in prominent leagues around the globe with less than 30k capacity. Fulham, Wolfsburg, Malaga, Stoke, etc. Plenty more with larger capacity but less than 30k avg. attendance.


----------



## BlazerBlaze

He didn't buy land by Staples Center, he bought land near the LA Forum. The Forum is out by LAX (the airport) next to the horse track. Its the old home of the Lakers and is now a top shelf concert venue. Its has lots of parking because of the race track.


----------



## bd popeye

chotu32 said:


> So still no intention of building a serious soccer stadium then?
> 
> At the end of the day, this is a nation of 330 million +, we're still treating soccer like it's table tennis or something.


Presently the MLS is doing well as far as attendance is concerned. With an average of 18,594 fans a game last season. I believe that is ninth highest soccer league attendance in the world.

MLS attendance down in 2013, but only slightly off 2012's record high


----------



## chotu32

bd popeye said:


> Presently the MLS is doing well as far as attendance is concerned. With an average of 18,594 fans a game last season. I believe that is ninth highest soccer league attendance in the world.
> 
> MLS attendance down in 2013, but only slightly off 2012's record high


If it's so good, why don't they just build a decent soccer stadium then. Why all this 15-20k crap. just build a damn big one. All these countries in africa, asia, and europe aren't as rich as america, and the majority of them don't have big leagues or many brand name clubs. But atleast one soccer specific stadium of 60-100k is commonplace in most of these countries. 

Like I said, if americans are at all even slightly serious about the sport, then they should build a decent soccer stadium. The year is 2014, not 1965.


----------



## bd popeye

chotu32 said:


> If it's so good, why don't they just build a decent soccer stadium then.


I don't know. I'm not involved with the MLS in anyway. Perhaps you should inquire one of the owners of an MLS team.

This is a good answer..



> Only something like 50 teams in Europe can regularly fill a 30.000 capacity stadium. And football/soccer are more important than religion in most of Europe, while it's AT BEST the fifth most important team sport in the US.
> 
> A filled 15.000 stadium are much better than a half-full 30.000 stadium. I think it's a great step that most teams in the MLS are now building, have built or plan to build their own stadium specifically designed for football/soccer. It's a great step forward. I'm a strong believer that the sport will grow very much in the next decade and maybe in 15-20 years we can start talking about building 30.000+ capacity stadiums for most of the teams in the league.


Perhaps one of the reasons is money generated by the sport. The US is all about the $ as you know. and how much cash can a business generate. Right now especially through TV the MLS does not do very will compared to the other major pros sports in the US. As an example check the Tv ratings for the last MLS championship game.

Tv ratings = revenue $$$$$

http://www.bloguin.com/crystalballr...ad-28-5-times-as-many-viewers-as-mls-cup.html



> Interest in soccer may be growing inside the United States, but it has a long way to go before rivaling college football when it comes to television ratings. Take Saturday for example...
> 
> According to our friends at Awful Announcing, this year's MLS Cup drew an average audience of 505,000, or about 223,000 below the lowest rated championship match since 2010. Perhaps interesting to note, the Spanish broadcast received a better television rating than the ESPN broadcast in English, with 514,000 tuning in to Uni Mas. Combined coverage for the MLS Cup netted an estimated total of 1,019,000 viewers. You can fill that number with just over nine sellouts at Michigan Stadium.


Be patient.. soccer's day will come in the US.


----------



## slipperydog

chotu32 said:


> If it's so good, why don't they just build a decent soccer stadium then. Why all this 15-20k crap. just build a damn big one. All these countries in africa, asia, and europe aren't as rich as america, and the majority of them don't have big leagues or many brand name clubs. But atleast one soccer specific stadium of 60-100k is commonplace in most of these countries.
> 
> Like I said, if americans are at all even slightly serious about the sport, then they should build a decent soccer stadium. The year is 2014, not 1965.


Why not build a 60k seat soccer stadium? Because it would be more than half empty. And that would be stupid. For big matches when there is demand, MLS teams can play in NFL stadiums.


----------



## GunnerJacket

chotu32 said:


> If it's so good, why don't they just build a decent soccer stadium then. Why all this 15-20k crap. just build a damn big one. All these countries in africa, asia, and europe aren't as rich as america, and the majority of them don't have big leagues or many brand name clubs. But atleast one soccer specific stadium of 60-100k is commonplace in most of these countries.
> 
> Like I said, if americans are at all even slightly serious about the sport, then they should build a decent soccer stadium. The year is 2014, not 1965.


I can only assume you're not familiar with US sporting culture.

The foremost answer to your question is that there is already an abundance of 60k+ stadiums capable of hosting soccer when needed. These are primarily for American football (NFL), however, the dominating sport in the US. Sometimes these are used for soccer games, either international events or select MLS games. For the typical, regular MLS games, however, they don't need anything much larger than 18-25k on average. Thus, all the better to keep the venues of appropriate size so as not to lose atmosphere and to maximize profit margins.


----------



## Bori427

Chivas needs to be rebranded and moved to San Diego...


----------



## Guest

Apparently Atlanta are deep in negotiations about an MLS franchise at Arthur Blanks new joint. I still dont know how to feel about Atlanta, but the South East is done and dusted if MLS has 3 teams there. It will be difficult to see a team from the Carolinas should this work out. 

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...says-team-inching-closer-major-league-soccer-


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## master_klon

San Jose Earthquake's new stadium


----------



## master_klon

5portsF4n said:


> Apparently Atlanta are deep in negotiations about an MLS franchise at Arthur Blanks new joint. I still dont know how to feel about Atlanta, but the South East is done and dusted if MLS has 3 teams there. It will be difficult to see a team from the Carolinas should this work out.
> 
> http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...says-team-inching-closer-major-league-soccer-


I think that the league should wait until 2015/16 before negotiating. They still have plenty of time then to add another two teams by 2020 and at the rate MLS and US soccer is progressing the league will have a much stronger bid then.


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## will101

> San Jose Earthquake's new stadium


And some of our _extremely_ welcome rain.


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## will101

Latest shot from the webcam of the new Earthquakes stadium, in the rain.


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## chotu32

Congrats to US for building another world class soccer stadium.. Looks even better than the world class one they built in Uganda recently


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## mattec

chotu32 said:


> If it's so good, why don't they just build a decent soccer stadium then. Why all this 15-20k crap. just build a damn big one. All these countries in africa, asia, and europe aren't as rich as america, and the majority of them don't have big leagues or many brand name clubs. But atleast one soccer specific stadium of 60-100k is commonplace in most of these countries.
> 
> Like I said, if americans are at all even slightly serious about the sport, then they should build a decent soccer stadium. The year is 2014, not 1965.


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## rantanamo

yeah, we're really hurting














































I think the MLS is doing the right thing by making money with lower overhead costs and having full stadiums with great atmosphere. They will grow with time and the stadiums will grow with them or they will move into dual purpose NFL stadiums that are even more soccer friendly.


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## bd popeye

Even ancient old Qualcomm Stadium in San Diego looks great with a soccer pitch..

When Mexico plays there the very ends of those lower seats were removed to accommodate "futbol"pitch. Those sections of seats are moveable. The attendance is normally around 60,000. 

 



How about the really ancient Rose Bowl in Pasadena CA? 

7 Aug 2010

LA Galaxy 2-3 Real Madrid..attendance 89,134.





Stanford Stadium



And Soldier Field..Chicago


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## Bori427

I know this is off topic but around how many mexicans live in the San Diego area?


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## JJG

mattec said:


>





rantanamo said:


> yeah, we're really hurting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the MLS is doing the right thing by making money with lower overhead costs and having full stadiums with great atmosphere. They will grow with time and the stadiums will grow with them or they will move into dual purpose NFL stadiums that are even more soccer friendly.





bd popeye said:


> Even ancient old Qualcomm Stadium in San Diego looks great with a soccer pitch..
> 
> When Mexico plays there the very ends of those lower seats were removed to accommodate "futbol"pitch. Those sections of seats are moveable. The attendance is normally around 60,000.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about the really ancient Rose Bowl in Pasadena CA?
> 
> 7 Aug 2010
> 
> LA Galaxy 2-3 Real Madrid..attendance 89,134.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stanford Stadium
> 
> 
> 
> And Soldier Field..Chicago


If I may add....


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## soup or man

Not to mention...


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## will101

Bori427 said:


> I know this is off topic but around how many mexicans live in the San Diego area?


The Latino population of San Diego County in 2010 was just slightly under a million, and the Tijuana area has another 1.3 million.


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## mamangvilla

JJG said:


> If I may add....


Where is this?


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## krudmonk

mamangvilla said:


> Where is this?


Cotton Bowl, Dallas


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## MarkJF

I follow team with a 25k stadium, far too big. We have a hard core of 7-8k fans who would turn up no matter what. But, what a dismal experience it was! 5 years ago, prices were slashed to double the support, albeit with the same income, now with 14k+ in the stadium, the product might still be as bad but it's now an "event", with noise and atmosphere. :banana: 

This has big impact on kids consciousness, and once they are hooked..........

The proposed initial stadium capacity's look sensible to me.


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## JJG

mamangvilla said:


> Where is this?


Yeah, that's the pre-expansion Cotton Bowl. It hosted a few 1994 World Cup matches.


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## vanbasten88

JJG said:


> Yeah, that's the pre-expansion Cotton Bowl. It hosted a few 1994 World Cup matches.


Pre-expansion?? What does it look like now?


----------



## tinyslam

^^^^^^










'Merica!


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## bd popeye

Those sections in the corners of the end zone ^^ at one time were re moveable to accommodate a soccer field. Not sure about now.


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## MarkJF

^^

Wow, that Bernabeu mock up looks like a George Foreman grill. hno:

The current Euro fad for exterior/media lighting is a dangerous game, stunning for how long before they become passe? The Allianz arena lighting looks dated already and the San Mames not quite "with it" and yet it's not even finished!


----------



## mckeenan

MarkJF said:


> ^^
> 
> Wow, that Bernabeu mock up looks like a George Foreman grill. hno:
> 
> The current Euro fad for exterior/media lighting is a dangerous game, stunning for how long before they become passe? The Allianz arena lighting looks dated already and the San Mames not quite "with it" and yet it's not even finished!


Well, they play with the wrap up thing. If the exterior became outdated, then they'll just change the skin. Maybe not in the Bernabeu, but they'll do in the Allianz. Also, it depends on whether you want to have windowed external areas or not. But yes, some of these new stadiums relies too much on lightning. I just wanted to mark that this kind of facades are still to be explored in the states.


----------



## MarkJF

mckeenan said:


> Well, they play with the wrap up thing. If the became outdated, then they'll just change the skin. Maybe not in the Bernabeu, but they'll do in the Allianz. Also, it depends on whether you want to have windowed external areas or not. But yes, some of these new stadiums relies too much on lightning. I just wanted to mark that this kind of facades are still to be explored in the states.


I like all the examples you showed, but the electrical/lighting industry is moving so quick that the "skins" are become outdated between design and build. The The Leeds arena (opened 2013) lighting makes the San Mames (still unfinished) look dated. 

I prefer the look of "permanence" in the large USA stadiums over this years hi-tech "skin".


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## rantanamo

Those skins are just skins with the same plain bowl designs inside. I prefer the varied bowl designs of the NFL that like to play with retractable glass ends to bring in more light and asymetrical designs. Look at the Vikings new stadium going up. I find that much more interesting than the same old bowl and skin with a partial roof. Even the huge glass ends at Cowboys Stadium and the giant plazas are architecturally more interesting to me as they turn just a stadium into a place and allow more light in. I hope the MLS will go with these types designs which I think are more radical and interesting. It could definitely distinguish them from other domestic leagues and give them their own feeling instead of just cloning western European type soccer stadiums.


----------



## mckeenan

rantanamo said:


> Those skins are just skins with the same plain bowl designs inside. I prefer the varied bowl designs of the NFL that like to play with retractable glass ends to bring in more light and asymetrical designs. Look at the Vikings new stadium going up. I find that much more interesting than the same old bowl and skin with a partial roof. Even the huge glass ends at Cowboys Stadium and the giant plazas are architecturally more interesting to me as they turn just a stadium into a place and allow more light in. I hope the MLS will go with these types designs which I think are more radical and interesting. It could definitely distinguish them from other domestic leagues and give them their own feeling instead of just cloning western European type soccer stadiums.


The bowl desing optimizes space. You get the maximun number of seats within the available plot. IMO bowl styled stadiums are popular in Europe due to very high soil prices and less space available. I have seen Viking's render and it is great, a big step for the MLS, but that was what I was asking for... more expressive buildings, no matter if it is achieved by bolder shape, cohesive facade design, or both.


----------



## carnifex2005

*Providence Park Replaces Jeld-Wen Field*

e Portland Timbers today announced the change in stadium sponsorship from Jeld-Wen Windows & Doors to Providence Health & Services. The new stadium name will be Providence Park as part of a 15-year agreement that further ties the local hospital and health services provider to the Timbers and Portland Thorns, for whom Providence is already the shirt sponsor. Additionally, the agreement will usher back in Oregon's Special Olympics, which has been dormant since 2008 due to the economic downturn.

Providence, which is Oregon's largest private employer, has had its Sports Care Center attached to the stadium in the southwest corner since the redevelopment in 2011. Sponsoring the Thorns from its debut season of 2013, the health services provider now bumps up its investment in soccer, sports and community in the Portland area.

Though the terms of the deal have not been disclosed, a fifteen-year deal surpasses even the ten-year deal Jeld-Wen signed in March 2011 to be the inaugural MLS stadium sponsor. Though they are no longer the naming rights partner with the Timbers and Thorns, Jeld-Wen will remain a key financial partner with the two clubs. Should Providence Park remain the stadium name through the entirety of the current contract, the teams will not have a newly named home until 2029.

Merritt Paulson, Providence CEO Dave Underriner and cardiologist Dr. James Beckerman made the announcement today at the stadium with the help of Timbers COO Mike Golub. As of today, Jeld-Wen signage remains but that could be replaced by the time the Timbers host San Jose Earthquakes as part of the Rose City Invitational on February 23.


----------



## Kerrybai

rantanamo said:


> Those skins are just skins with the same plain bowl designs inside. I prefer the varied bowl designs of the NFL that like to play with retractable glass ends to bring in more light and asymetrical designs. Look at the Vikings new stadium going up. I find that much more interesting than the same old bowl and skin with a partial roof. Even the huge glass ends at Cowboys Stadium and the giant plazas are architecturally more interesting to me as they turn just a stadium into a place and allow more light in. I hope the MLS will go with these types designs which I think are more radical and interesting. It could definitely distinguish them from other domestic leagues and give them their own feeling instead of just cloning western European type soccer stadiums.


Different designs for different sports. Vikings new stadium wouldn't work for say Bayern Munich as they generate most of their atmosphere with fans vehicle the goal ends. 

Anyway I find these sort if debates silly. As long as a stadium serves the fans well we shouldn't care about the smaller details or differences between Europe and the US.


----------



## 3tmk

I liked the Jeld-Wen name, sounded like a Star Wars character.


----------



## Guest

carnifex2005 said:


> *Providence Park Replaces Jeld-Wen Field*


Great news. 15 years = this has to be a $20m+ agreement. Cant see them agreeing to a 15 year deal at anything less than $1m a year, and Im sure it would be slightly higher than that. In saying that 15 years is a long time, especially in MLS as we've seen. Could be really undervalued in the long term.


----------



## will101

carnifex2005 said:


> As of today, Jeld-Wen signage remains but that could be replaced by the time the Timbers host San Jose Earthquakes as part of the Rose City Invitational on February 23.


Don't hold your breath on that. Northwestern Oregon is still digging out of an ugly snowstorm that came in over the weekend. Manpower and equipment is at a premium.


----------



## MarkJF

Topher51 said:


> I like Inter Miami, but since Beckham is formerly of A.C. Milan, I don't know how he would feel naming his team after an arch rival.
> 
> Hey, A.C. Miami sounds pretty good too.


What's the point of an Italian acronym? I thought they'd we playing on the Hispanic emotion if anything. IMO it's bit unimaginitive, and boring, to copy any Euro acronym, FC, AFC, AC, Inter, Atletico, CD, whatever.

Most of the names suggested sound contrived and quite a few will produce a chuckle if chosen. As "derzberb" said, "Club Miami" does sound good.


----------



## RMB2007

Back to stadium talk please, rather than about team names. Thanks.

Earthquakes stadium:


----------



## will101

^^^^ A side benefit from the (long overdue) rains is that they now have a minor backlog of structural pieces to assemble. So we should see some noticeable change in the next week or so.


----------



## WesTexas

That seems to be a real steep incline for the stands for being that close to the ground.


----------



## Lumbergo

check the renders. it will offer an amazing view of the pitch for spectators. the front rows near the ground are never good seats in any stadium - which ironically here will be occupied by suites. you'll literally be on top of the action - without being MILES from the action which is usually the case.


----------



## will101

WesTexas said:


> That seems to be a real steep incline for the stands for being that close to the ground.


You're right. And that incline is a good thing.


----------



## MarkJF

Lumbergo said:


> check the renders. it will offer an amazing view of the pitch for spectators. the front rows near the ground are never good seats in any stadium - which ironically here will be occupied by suites. you'll literally be on top of the action - without being MILES from the action which is usually the case.


Fantastic! I noticed similar watching a Bundesliga game last night, it's also common in many older Dutch stadiums to have the first seats high above pitch level, I back this stadium because a pitch level view is horrible view for soccer, you cannot see the pattern of play.

Wouldn't want to be in suite tho'.


----------



## mamangvilla

Actually from what I read the suites has access to the first two or three rows seats, that's where the suites holder sit to watch the game with the suites below them.

Field level seats look good on TV, not so much when you have to actually sit there.


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

^^ huh? I haven't heard that. Suite seats are at field level in front of the suites.



will101 said:


> ^^^^ A side benefit from the (long overdue) rains is that they now have a minor backlog of structural pieces to assemble. So we should see some noticeable change in the next week or so.


Looks like you were right. Steel has reached the edge of the western stand.



http://www.sjearthquakes.com/newstadium/webcam%20


----------



## Guest

Can a mod want to explain why the image of a Miami mock up that I've posted twice now keep getting deleted? I've received no message for either deletion.

You can find it here: http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...logo-and-kits-david-beckhams-proposed-miami-m


----------



## Bobby3

San Diego has fans who'd like an MLS team but thus far no one willing to bankroll one or build a stadium. RSL is apparently setting up a USL affiliate there though.

Also, the Mexican team weava mentioned, Tijuana, has a lot of fans in the area already and are putting down roots in the city (friendlies, maybe an academy in the future).


----------



## bd popeye

rafagoiasec said:


> San Diego has no demand for football/soccer ? Why MLS does not move the team to this city ?


San Diego has some of the the highest Tv ratings for soccer in the US. In my opinion SD would do very well in the MLS.


----------



## dl3000

A San Diego would make for a nice rivalry with Galaxy. Could be like a greater SoCal derby.


----------



## master_klon

Along with the Chivas announcement Don Garber has given a bit of an update on the expansion to 24 teams by 2020. The names mentioned were Atlanta, Minneapolis, Sacramento, San Diego, and San Antonio. The team that replaces Chivas will definitely stay in LA. He's keen to have Atlanta as the 23rd MLS team, and it seems like Minneapolis will be 24 with the rest as backup options.


Of course LA has the population to support two teams, but I was hoping the new club would move to San Diego. Hopefully they get a NASL or USL Pro team soon. It will be interesting to see where the new club will build their stadium, the Galaxy will sure be a bit jealous if they build close to the city centre. 
Not surprised that Garber hasn't mentioned St Louis but I was hoping that they would get an MLS team. I don't see either Sacramento or San Antonio as contenders for 23 or 24.


----------



## rafagoiasec

Is this an admission of going beyond 24 teams? I hope yeah.
“I think the league is poised for more teams in time,” Garber said Thursday, “but we're going to be careful about ensuring that we get them into the league at the right time and when the league can handle it from a player perspective and from a resource perspective.”


----------



## Guest

weava said:


> The metro area already has a team in the Mexican league. Could the area support a major league team in both leagues?


The metro area :lol: It's a Mexican team playing in the Mexican league. 70% of San Diego isn't Mexican.


----------



## Guest

rafagoiasec said:


> Is this an admission of going beyond 24 teams? I hope yeah.
> “I think the league is poised for more teams in time,” Garber said Thursday, “but we're going to be careful about ensuring that we get them into the league at the right time and when the league can handle it from a player perspective and from a resource perspective.”


It will go way past 24. No need to worry there. The Ponzi scheme always needs new blood.


----------



## slipperydog

5portsF4n said:


> The metro area :lol: It's a Mexican team playing in the Mexican league. 70% of San Diego isn't Mexican.


There are plenty of non-Mexicans who support Xolos. Plus the Mexican League is a higher level than MLS. Of course, San Diego could probably support an MLS team as well and would be a strong possibility for expansion in the long run, but there are other markets that are probably bigger priorities right now. But the claim that only Mexicans support Xolos is just factually incorrect.


----------



## Bobby3

5portsF4n said:


> The metro area :lol: It's a Mexican team playing in the Mexican league. 70% of San Diego isn't Mexican.


You have to be Mexican to support a Mexican team? Guess someone's gonna have to break that to all the Americans here who follow Liga MX teams. Should we tell all the people in Baja California that they have a team in the Mexican league and need to stop watching the Chargers too?


----------



## krudmonk

You're all overlooking the fact that this is a sport in which the distinction between the US and Mexico is great. A Mexican team may have some anecdotal news story fans across the border, but will never have anything close to real market penetration. Xolos try to counter this by pandering with US players, but this is still less of a story than Bills support in Toronto.


----------



## Guest

master_klon said:


> Along with the Chivas announcement Don Garber has given a bit of an update on the expansion to 24 teams by 2020. The names mentioned were Atlanta, Minneapolis, Sacramento, San Diego, and San Antonio. The team that replaces Chivas will definitely stay in LA. He's keen to have Atlanta as the 23rd MLS team, and it seems like Minneapolis will be 24 with the rest as backup options.
> 
> Of course LA has the population to support two teams, but I was hoping the new club would move to San Diego. Hopefully they get a NASL or USL Pro team soon. It will be interesting to see where the new club will build their stadium, the Galaxy will sure be a bit jealous if they build close to the city centre.
> Not surprised that Garber hasn't mentioned St Louis but I was hoping that they would get an MLS team. I don't see either Sacramento or San Antonio as contenders for 23 or 24.


I'm with you. Ok, LA can support two teams. Does it need to though? Same with New York. This is my 30 team dream scenario.:cheers: 

I'm going to have a go at mapping out expansion targets, using my nifty map below. These are all the urban areas over a million people (excluding Canada where I've just put the 3 teams already there). 

Green underlined = team already there
Green = Possible/probable expansion
Red = Rather not see them in the league

2 of the the teams are in the New York area, only 1 in the LA area. 

Riverside is counted as its own urban area, but an LA team caters to them anyway. Virginia Beach is also a large urban area but one that doesn't have one single center. 

It also breaks my heart not to be able to include Austin, as I think it'd be perfect, but between it and San Antonio, I give the nod to SA. Same with Charlotte really. Were the league to expand to 32 eventually, then Charlotte should be in there.


----------



## rafagoiasec

I agree with your map. These cities would be my favorite targets also. If the league eventually expand to 32 teams, i'll put Charlotte and would like to see a pro sport team in Vegas.


----------



## Bobby3

There's very, very little interest in MLS here. They're totally happy watching Liga MX and the Premier League on TV.

Not saying it'll be that way in the future, but as it stands it's lukewarm at best.


----------



## Bori427

So a lot of americans actually follow Liga MX?


----------



## slipperydog

Bori427 said:


> So a lot of americans actually follow Liga MX?



Huge. It gets the highest TV ratings by far out of any soccer league in the world.


----------



## Calvin W

5portsF4n said:


> I'm with you. Ok, LA can support two teams. Does it need to though? Same with New York. This is my 30 team dream scenario.:cheers:
> 
> I'm going to have a go at mapping out expansion targets, using my nifty map below. These are all the urban areas over a million people (excluding Canada where I've just put the 3 teams already there).
> 
> Green underlined = team already there
> Green = Possible/probable expansion
> Red = Rather not see them in the league
> 
> 2 of the the teams are in the New York area, only 1 in the LA area.
> 
> Riverside is counted as its own urban area, but an LA team caters to them anyway. Virginia Beach is also a large urban area but one that doesn't have one single center.
> 
> It also breaks my heart not to be able to include Austin, as I think it'd be perfect, but between it and San Antonio, I give the nod to SA. Same with Charlotte really. Were the league to expand to 32 eventually, then Charlotte should be in there.


I would add Oklahoma City in Green and El Paso as well. Think both cities would have big potential in the future for soccer.


----------



## surrill

Bori427 said:


> So a lot of americans actually follow Liga MX?


Yes! There's a good size Pumas following in San Jose. Along with America fans and of course Quakes.


----------



## larsul

The biggest support group of my favorite club Chivas Guadalajara is located in California and they did little to support Chivas USA since it was not the original.. 
they have supporters in LA, Dallas, Houston, El paso and San Antonio.
And i mean, registered elements who travel when the original team plays in the USA.

back in subject, i would love to have an MLS team in SAN ANTONIO, the city is growing a lot and theres a nice new stadium (dont know if it can expand) plus they fill the games without selling any alcohol.. that should count for something :lol:


----------



## SJAnfield

surrill said:


> Yes! There's a good size Pumas following in San Jose. Along with America fans and of course Quakes.


You can find merchandise, signage and jerseys of just about every Liga MX club around the South Bay. Lesser extent in Sacramento, but it's still everywhere. LMX is also very prominent on billboards across Northern California. A neighbor of mine has large Toluca banners and flags above his house. You see countless window stickers (many covering entire rear windows) of Chivas, America, Pumas, ect... all over town. 

For many residents here, the link is more obvious, families bringing their loyalties with them upon relocating to California/the states. Many of my friends and I (non Mexicans) became fans of Liga MX, or more precisely particular clubs, because we grew up before the advent of the MLS. The Mexican league was the only professional soccer many of us were exposed to, and even cable didn't carry a lot of international soccer. We didn't have cable growing up, but I had 3-4 channels where I could catch a game almost any night of the week. Even after the MLS arrived, Mexican soccer was available and plentiful. Mexican league apparel was at every corner store and shop, posters displayed at many restaurants and bars. LMX is more visible than our own home team. Probably even comparable/equal to the local NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL teams.


----------



## Guest

Bobby3 said:


> There's very, very little interest in MLS here. They're totally happy watching Liga MX and the Premier League on TV.
> 
> Not saying it'll be that way in the future, but as it stands it's lukewarm at best.


There's very, very, little interest in MLS in most cities that don't have a team. Even in many cities that do have a team, interest isn't high, or at best way behind other pro sports teams. 

People everywhere are happy to watch Liga MX and BPL, but put an MLS team, and all things being right, it could be a success. There's too much evidence of MLS success in familiar and strange places to write off any city. 



Bori427 said:


> So a lot of americans actually follow Liga MX?


A lot of Mexican-Americans anyway. There are 35 million Mexican Americans in the US. With those numbers, it's not hard to see why Liga MX gets love. As someone said, it's the best rating soccer league in the country. 



Calvin W said:


> I would add Oklahoma City in Green and El Paso as well. Think both cities would have big potential in the future for soccer.


I would have put Oklahoma, but its a pretty small market. It's urban area is roughly 860,000 (I had a 1m threshold). When the Durant/Westbrook era comes to an end, that market isn't going to look as hot as it does today. Oklahoma does have a Salt Lake feel to it, but you'd be hard pressed convincing MLS to go down the route of another ~1m market today.


----------



## gugasounds

^^
Yup never going to happen


----------



## aaronniuk

Kerrybai said:


> Having live here my entire life I can tell you most Irish call it soccer.
> 
> We have Gaelic football.



hmmmm....Not in Northern Ireland


----------



## Kerrybai

aaronniuk said:


> hmmmm....Not in Northern Ireland


Well of course not, but I shouldn't have to explain the reasons for that.

Apologies for going off topic.


----------



## will101

Latest shot for the Quakes. Getting all of the beams in by a week from Friday will be impressive.


----------



## Bori427

Disastrous day for MLS.


----------



## carnifex2005

Predicable day for MLS. Playing Liga MX teams at home when they are motivated always will be a tall task with the salary cap. Toronto, Seattle, LA and NY could probably be right up there with those Liga MX teams if there was no salary cap or DP rule. Basically those teams could have ten $1 million dollar salary players each instead of 2 or 3 Designated Players. In the future an additional DP slot won't really help, only a huge rise in the salary cap.


----------



## Otto Racecar

carnifex2005 said:


> Predicable day for MLS. Playing Liga MX teams at home when they are motivated always will be a tall task with the salary cap. Toronto, Seattle, LA and NY could probably be right up there with those Liga MX teams if there was no salary cap or DP rule. Basically those teams could have ten $1 million dollar salary players each instead of 2 or 3 Designated Players. In the future an additional DP slot won't really help, only a huge rise in the salary cap.


Let's also not discount that the MLS schedule is set up so that San Jose had not played one game during the 2014 season going into their quarterfinal opener and LA and KC had only played one. Preseason form certainly doesn't help the situation as well. That being said San Jose should have won the match on the disallowed extra time goal which was clearly a poor call and as a midtable MLS squad in 2013 took the current 2nd place team in Liga Mx to penalty kicks on aggregate without at least 6 of their perceived first team starting tonight. That's not too bad.

Really the only match out of the 6 that looked like the MLS squad was completely outclassed was tonight's Cruz Azul- Sporting KC match.I don't think the gap is nearly what some may perceive even with the salary cap issues although it certainly plays a large factor as well.


----------



## rafagoiasec

I can't understand. Seems the MLS teams fear the mexican teams. They're not so good.


----------



## will101

Otto Racecar said:


> Let's also not discount that the MLS schedule is set up so that San Jose had not played one game during the 2014 season going into their quarterfinal opener and LA and KC had only played one. Preseason form certainly doesn't help the situation as well. That being said San Jose should have won the match on the disallowed extra time goal which was clearly a poor call and as a midtable MLS squad in 2013 took the current 2nd place team in Liga Mx to penalty kicks on aggregate without at least 6 of their perceived first team starting tonight. That's not too bad.
> 
> Really the only match out of the 6 that looked like the MLS squad was completely outclassed was tonight's Cruz Azul- Sporting KC match.I don't think the gap is nearly what some may perceive even with the salary cap issues although it certainly plays a large factor as well.


Keep in mind that overall the Quakes may have been "midtable", but over the last 14 games of the season they had the best record in the league.


----------



## Cjones2451

carnifex2005 said:


> Predicable day for MLS. Playing Liga MX teams at home when they are motivated always will be a tall task with the salary cap. Toronto, Seattle, LA and NY could probably be right up there with those Liga MX teams if there was no salary cap or DP rule. Basically those teams could have ten $1 million dollar salary players each instead of 2 or 3 Designated Players. In the future an additional DP slot won't really help, only a huge rise in the salary cap.


Until the MLS can get bigger TV money, I don't think that is going to happen anytime soon or if it does then the MLS could end up like the NASL. 
Does anyone have any idea what the payroll of a Cruz Azul or Club America is, we won't ask about Queretaro:bash:


----------



## bd popeye

Cjones2451 said:


> Until the MLS can get bigger TV money, I don't think that is going to happen anytime soon or if it does then the MLS could end up like the NASL.


And they will not get bigger Tv money until their abysmal ratings improve. No one is in business to lose money.


----------



## Bori427

*Southern California town reverses course on plan to develop academy complex with Real Salt Lake*

The City Council of Oceanside, Calif., has reversed course on plans to partner with Real Salt Lake on a $10 million-plus project to build a youth academy and stadium for a future USL PRO affiliate club on the site of a failing public golf course, The San Diego Union-Tribune reported on Thursday.

Oceanside, a far northern suburb of San Diego, is losing money on the City Center Golf Course, widely known as Goat Hill, and has sought alternate uses for the 76-acre site.

“We can’t keep losing money on a golf course that isn’t viable,” Mayor Jim Wood said last week.

READ: RSL sign academy product Jordan Allen to Homegrown player deal
But residents appeared at a Wednesday night council meeting to express opposition to the RSL plan and express their desire to pursue an alternate path, prompting city leaders to end discussions with the club.

“I’ve come to the conclusion I think this is a very right idea, but it’s the wrong place,” said Councilman Jack Feller.

....

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...es-course-plan-develop-academy-complex-real-s

How often is the MLS salary cap reviewed?


----------



## GunnerJacket

Bori427 said:


> Disastrous day for MLS.


Disastrous days are when venues collapse or fans start brawling. This was simply a bad day at the office, and not one all together unexpected. MLS drew some very unfortunate match-ups this year, and, perhaps most importantly...



rafagoiasec said:


> I can't understand. Seems the MLS teams fear the mexican teams. They're not so good.


... the biggest issue remains the cross-over of season structures. MLS teams are roughly one-month into their season as far as training and full practices go, while their Liga MX counterparts are 11 matches deep into their Clausura. Guess which side has better developed their chemistry and rhythm for this week?

For all MLS's real and legitimate improvements they're still several years away from having the depth of talent and resources to compete on the biggest of stages. The volume of players willing and able to practice year-round under the best of coaches is simply not yet there. At least, no where near the levels available in Mexico. The league is still relying on imported stars to raise talent levels but to see growth in the CL the MLS clubs will need to see a deeper pool of B-grade talent to sustain them through full-year schedules and to raise the abilities of each team. Only then will they be able to regularly challenge the Liga MX teams in the CL.

Also, don't discount the talent in Mexico, either. That league is arguably the wealthiest in the hemisphere and capable of some good football. Losing to teams like Cruz Azul is nothing to be ashamed of. 


Cjones2451 said:


> Until the MLS can get bigger TV money, I don't think that is going to happen anytime soon or if it does then the MLS could end up like the NASL.


MLS won't go the way of NASL because they have a much, much more sound business model and they are the beneficiaries of high times for the sport here in the States. 


> Does anyone have any idea what the payroll of a Cruz Azul or Club America is, we won't ask about Queretaro:bash:


I'm not sure of the payroll but I know that their facilities and training schedules are much better compared to the average MLS club. The average LMX team has some 40 players within their top flight A and B sides that can train and play together all year, with lots of solid coaches. And the competition to be among those players is pretty fierce. Comparably, I'm pretty sure many of the MLS development players have second jobs.


bd popeye said:


> And they will not get bigger Tv money until their abysmal ratings improve. No one is in business to lose money.


True, but the ratings don't necessarily need to be @ NHL levels. (Which would be great!) Live programming is in the highest demand among those who want to keep us zombies glued to the screen, so there's great value in something even as viable filler. Like the adage goes - You don't need to outrun the bear, just the slowest person in your group!


----------



## willygtoc

*NYCFC announce their official club badge:*










https://twitter.com/MLS/status/446798335223922688/photo/1


----------



## Bori427

MLS salary cap needs to go up


----------



## KeanoManu

Wouldn't that be something that will happen automatically when the league starts to bring in more money?


----------



## Guest

bd popeye said:


> And they will not get bigger Tv money until their abysmal ratings improve. No one is in business to lose money.


Except that MLS contracts this year are expected to improve handsomely despite poor ratings. I get your point, but technically its incorrect.


----------



## Bori427

So the salary cap has gone up this year?

It's around $3 million right?


----------



## will101

Bori427 said:


> So the salary cap has gone up this year?
> 
> It's around $3 million right?


It's $3.1 million for 2014, up from $2.95 million in 2013. Here's a good article: http://www.businessofsoccer.com/201...ster-rules-salaries-and-budget-both-increase/


----------



## Guest

Bori427 said:


> So the salary cap has gone up this year?
> 
> It's around $3 million right?


I never really understood the point of looking at salary cap numbers for leagues with anything other than a hard cap. 

That might be the salary cap, but does it reflect the real situation? With DP's, it varies from team to team. It's certainly not a high salary cap when compared to team wages from other leagues around the world, but its not as measly as the $3m suggests for a number of teams.


----------



## Guest

Holy fucking shit. Im floored.


----------



## rafagoiasec

Awesome project ! Perfect stadium !!


----------



## Anubis2051

Looks like RFK will be featured in the new movie X-Men: Days of Future Past









Based on the scoreboard, it looks like the baseball configuration.


----------



## RMB2007

@VazquezReports:



> Miami Beckham United says no final site decision made. Preferred site is SW corner of Port Miami. But look at other 3














> This is where soccer stadium would be located if Marlins Park were to be chosen. BUT preferred site is Port












https://twitter.com/VazquezReports


----------



## will101

The scene at Cal Expo this morning about 10 a.m.


----------



## rafagoiasec

TFC’s home opener is the most-watched MLS game ever in Canada! Saturday’s game attracted an average audience of 352,000 viewers.


----------



## ielag

5portsF4n said:


> The real question is what will it take to get him to sell. Boston should be a premier MLS market.


The Krafts usually throw out once a year that they're in talks with cities (mainly Somerville and Revere).

I think they'd be willing to move as long as some local community is willing to pick up most of the costs. The Somerville location would be perfect just being a few miles outside of downtown Boston and T-Line station is opening this year right next to the proposed property.

Revere could possibly be tied into a potential Mohegan Sun casino.

But still wish someone would buy that club from them, as I agree a club in Boston (with competent ownership) could be a grand slam. Makes you wonder if the Red Sox or James Pallotta (AS Roma's owner) have ever inquired about the club?


----------



## carnifex2005

Speaking of the Krafts...










From the most recent issue of Boston Magazine.

And here's some short quotes transcribed from someone who read the article...

*"through the team's publicists,* both bob and jonathan kraft declined repeated requests to comment for this story"

*kyle martino: *"new england has kind of turned into that team where you'd rather hang it up, as a player in your last years, then play at."

*a 'still active mls veteran':* "it's just a different feeling walking into an nfl stadium, where there's no real permanent signage for the team, you see the football lines and feel the hard turf, and you can hear echoes of emptiness."

*roger levesque:* "in terms of atmosphere, it wasn't a game you praticularly got amped for. i'd compare it to when we were a usl team in seattle."

*kyle martino on the atmosphere at gillete: *"you can literally hear people's individual cell-phone conversations. it's sad."

*chris tierney:* "with the amount of fans we currently get in our games, i think sometimes the atmosphere gets lost."

*mls veteran (same as above):* "new england has fallen way down the line ... i'ts just not a place veteran guys are looking to play."

*kyle martino:* "if you're not getting the veterans, you're sure as hell not getting any significant DPs."

*mls veteran:* "solid DPs would never go there."

*another ex-player with close ties to the organization:* "the reputation of the revolution is that they're cheap" [he mentions a story of the team, a few years ago, having to make two connections on their flight to a game] "it's stuff like that that gives you the rep among the players and fans. they don't hold their breath that the revs will ever get a legit dp. not when you know you're second in the totem pole within the organization."

*a source with knowledge of the organization:* "i think jonathan kraft is a soccer fan, but i don't think robert cares about the game."

*grant wahl: *[after comparing revs situation to kc when still owned by the hunts] "you don't want an owner of your team who just wants to continue to exist. it's hard to rally around that."

*kyle martino:* "...if [the krafts aren't] willing to see the bigger picture, it's like, give someone a crack at reviving this team."

*per recent inquires with revere city hall by the author,* there's no new news to report on a possible stadium there.

*"when asked specifically about somerville and revere,* bilello pivoted, saying there are many sites that haven't been named publicly in the mix"
billello: "it's absolutely understandable the frustration that our fans have. we're frustrated as well."

*and perhaps the one excerpt that tells you all you need to know:* "when i requested interviews with the krafts through revolution pr, i was never given a reason why bob would not answer questions. jonathan at least, offered an explanation. he said he was too busy preparing for a patriots playoff game."


----------



## weava

master_klon said:


> Some better quality renders of the Miami proposal here though http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...khams-planned-stadium-new-Miami-MLS-side.html


That article makes a big point that it will be bigger than the NBA arena?? soccer fans are really obsessed with making the sport appear bigger than it is in the US.


----------



## slipperydog

weava said:


> That article makes a big point that it will be bigger than the NBA arena?? soccer fans are really obsessed with making the sport appear bigger than it is in the US.


I'm just gonna leave this one alone.


----------



## JJG

weava said:


> That article makes a big point that it will be bigger than the NBA arena?? soccer fans are really obsessed with making the sport appear bigger than it is in the US.


Yeah... 

That's why I believe it to be the British version of _Bleacher Report_.


----------



## MarkJF

JJG said:


> Yeah...
> 
> That's why I believe it to be the British version of _Bleacher Report_.


Tbh until today I have never heard of Mr LeBron James and would not have been able to name the Miami NBA team. Typical football fan then, no idea why they threw that in..............

The stadium mock up's look incredible, wow!


----------



## matthemod

You have to remember the Daily Mail is essentially the Fox News of daily newspapers, read by a generally right wing leaning, older generation who like their football's round and their tea in cups, not harbours.


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

Steel work nearly complete



http://www.sjearthquakes.com/newstadium/webcam%20


----------



## mckeenan

The Miami project is very impressive. Still... how about ensembling a proper team first?


----------



## goldy21

mckeenan said:


> The Miami project is very impressive. Still... how about ensembling a proper team first?


The stadium is essential to the team's ability to be financially viable and to attract talent.


----------



## tinyslam

If you build it they will come


----------



## WesTexas

matthemod said:


> You have to remember the Daily Mail is essentially the Fox News of daily newspapers, read by a generally right wing leaning, older generation who like their football's round and their tea in cups, not harbours.


Get off your soap box :bash:


----------



## matthemod

WesTexas said:


> Get off your soap box :bash:


Touch a nerve did I?  All I was doing was providing a bit of insight to Weava as to the publisher of that article as they are very right wing, and do tend to be quite ignorant of things uncommon in the U.K. such as the NBA.

In addition, the Miami proposals do seem very impressive, I just wonder how much the finished proposal will differ from those renders.


----------



## bd popeye

weava said:


> That article makes a big point that it will be bigger than the NBA arena?? soccer fans are really obsessed with making the sport appear bigger than it is in the US.


Exactly. Well stated. And.. I want the MLS to succeed and it has come a long way since 1996. They have a long way to go to beat out the NHL or NBA.


----------



## MarkJF

ElDudarinodotcom said:


> Steel for scoreboard going up today


Appreciate the updates. I can't wait to see this finished and open, at first, to Euro eyes, the design looks 3/4 finished, but I am bored of "bowls" it's refreshing and I hope a Euro club copies it.


----------



## wojtek354

pogoń szczecin stadium cap 20 k


----------



## will101

MarkJF said:


> Appreciate the updates. I can't wait to see this finished and open, at first, to Euro eyes, the design looks 3/4 finished, but I am bored of "bowls" it's refreshing and I hope a Euro club copies it.


Presumably the rest of the world will learn from this, and not to have the open end facing directly towards a major international airport.


----------



## JJG

wojtek354 said:


> pogoń szczecin stadium cap 20 k


USA and Canada...


----------



## Bori427

Anyone here thinks that Texas could have 2 more teams? San Antonio and Austin?


----------



## JJG

Bori427 said:


> Anyone here thinks that Texas could have 2 more teams? San Antonio and Austin?


We could have five in total. 

The MLS more than likely wouldn't allow it or look to do so, but it's possible. San Antonio's next. 

Still skeptical about Austin.


----------



## Bori427

I think Cali should have 2 more...San Diego and Sacramento.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Bori427 said:


> I think Cali should have 2 more...San Diego and Sacramento.


Sacremento expansion team, Chivas USA moving to San Diego (*Dodges tomatoes thrown for suggesting Chivas move again*)


----------



## BoulderGrad

ElDudarinodotcom said:


> Steel for scoreboard going up today
> 
> 
> http://www.sjearthquakes.com/newstadium/webcam%20


Anyone have a back of napkin calc for capacity if they build out the entire bowl?

Edit: Did it on my own playing with the seat mapper. Looks like close to 5,000 seats on the end section, so a second end section would bump it from 18,000 to about 23,000. Make it happen quakes fans.


----------



## surrill

BoulderGrad said:


> Anyone have a back of napkin calc for capacity if they build out the entire bowl?


24,000


----------



## BlazerBlaze

$69 mil seems a little low for what I was expecting for Orlando. Wonder if they'll up that after seeing the proposal for Miami?


----------



## BoulderGrad

BlazerBlaze said:


> $69 mil seems a little low for what I was expecting for Orlando. Wonder if they'll up that after seeing the proposal for Miami?


Almost definitely not. That's the number the negotiated, thats what they're gonna get. I can see them going for the working man's down to earth team next to the glitzy, flashy, expensive Miami team. Will hopefully be a good new rivalry.


----------



## Guest

BoulderGrad said:


> Almost definitely not. That's the number the negotiated, thats what they're gonna get. I can see them going for the working man's down to earth team next to the glitzy, flashy, expensive Miami team. Will hopefully be a good new rivalry.


Exactly. We already knew the numbers. Be thrilled if every team had an Earthquakes budget stadium.


----------



## Guest

Bori427 said:


> Anyone here thinks that Texas could have 2 more teams? San Antonio and Austin?


Texas will have 3 teams in MLS I feel. San Antonio has a head start but MLS seems to be encouraging Austin. I think they'd prefer Austin, but will settle if they dont get anything done within a particular timeframe. They need to move quick, which is why the stadium talk is interesting.


----------



## GunnerJacket

JJG said:


> USA and Canada...


I believe he was demonstrating a European club that has an (American styled) open ended stadium, as per the discussion above.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Deleted - Repost


----------



## Guest

Just read on bigsoccer Austin is a hoax for April Fools.


----------



## fuzzx

I don't know to what extent this is the case, but it seems many if not most MLS stadiums have contingencies set up for expansion, especially the more recent ones.

Some, like my own Montreal, are highly conceptual. Not much more than "we can expand if needed". but a number are closer to execution.

There's Toronto obviously, and we know the new SJ stadium is at 18,000 and goes to 24,000 but a couple others are more surprising.

In a Reddit AMA last year, SKC owner Robb Heineman disclosed that 18,467 seat Sporting park was designed to be expanded by up to 10,000 seats. With a decision being made in 2015 based on attendance trends:
http://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/comment...man_sporting_club_ceo_ask_me_anything/cbshyze

Also the 18,000 PPL park in Philidelphia can expand to 20,000 and 30,000:

While the big expansion remains on paper, they are starting incremental ones already. 

Also both Seattle and Vancouver are at a point where they can expand significantly with no extra fixed costs. Seattle has already selectively opened the upper bowl, while Vancouver has 6,000 seats in the lower bowl still tarped. It's a 100% "supply what the market can bare" choice at the moment.


----------



## Guest

fuzzx said:


> I don't know to what extent this is the case, but it seems many if not most MLS stadiums have contingencies set up for expansion, especially the more recent ones.
> 
> Some, like my own Montreal, are highly conceptual. Not much more than "we can expand if needed". but a number are closer to execution.
> 
> There's Toronto obviously, and we know the new SJ stadium is at 18,000 and goes to 24,000 but a couple others are more surprising.
> 
> *In a Reddit AMA last year, SKC owner Robb Heineman disclosed that 18,467 seat Sporting park was designed to be expanded by up to 10,000 seats*. With a decision being made in 2015 based on attendance trends:
> http://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/comment...man_sporting_club_ceo_ask_me_anything/cbshyze
> 
> Also the 18,000 PPL park in Philidelphia can expand to 20,000 and 30,000:


Sporting Park already accommodates a larger capacity than the official 18,500 capacity. Capacity can reach 21,500 in its current set up.


----------



## fuzzx

5portsF4n said:


> Sporting Park already accommodates a larger capacity than the official 18,500 capacity. Capacity can reach 21,500 in its current set up.


Very true, but those are all standing room numbers, and 21,650 is the fire code limit.

I would be interesting to note what effect the expansion would have on standing room. Are those spaces that would be removed to make space for expanded seating? or is that different?

If seated capacity can grow to ~28,000, can they fit 30,000 SRO?


----------



## Guest

fuzzx said:


> Very true, but those are all standing room numbers, and 21,650 is the fire code limit.
> 
> I would be interesting to note what effect the expansion would have on standing room. Are those spaces that would be removed to make space for expanded seating? or is that different?
> 
> If seated capacity can grow to ~28,000, can they fit 30,000 SRO?


I'd like to know myself. I do know however that there was some talk that the FO is planning on expanding the stadium to roughly 25,000 by 2018. I still think there is a lot of risk with expanding the stadium, but I guess if we keep selling out every game for the next 4 years it might not be so risky.


----------



## fuzzx

Robb stated that 8,000 seats will be added "mostly" above the east stands while a "couple thousand" more would be added on another level above the cauldron.

Is that where standing room is? or is it evenly distributed around/elsewhere?


----------



## will101

This is the final shape of the Quakes' stadium. Obviously there is much work to be done, but this outline won't change until they decide to add more seating.


----------



## will101

And the Quakes have posted this infographic on their site.










There is also video of the topping out ceremony here: http://www.sjearthquakes.com/news/2014/03/video-steel-topping-out-ceremony


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

From the San Jose Development News thread



jawz said:


> earthquakes new stadium steel completion


----------



## Lumbergo

that San Jose stadium is going to be legendary I think. I could see other clubs (current or future) copying the design.


----------



## will101

For me, the roof is going to take some getting used to.


----------



## aaronniuk

DC United desperately need a new stadium.

I was at the game yesterday against Chicago Fire. Maybe it was the rain but the attendance was brutal.

The quality of football was also brutal. If the mls is to improve they should put in place a player cap. No team is allowed to field more than 4 american players. Ive seen far better players playing in the Irish league in Northern Ireland. Rant over.


----------



## bd popeye

aaronniuk said:


> DC United desperately need a new stadium.


Agreed.



aaronniuk said:


> The quality of football was also brutal. *If the mls is to improve they should put in place a player cap. No team is allowed to field more than 4 american players. Ive seen far better players playing in the Irish league in Northern Ireland. Rant over.*


Better get the opcorn: ready!

I'm not a soccer fan...so..What makes you make that last statement? Thank you.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Lumbergo said:


> that San Jose stadium is going to be legendary I think. I could see other clubs (current or future) copying the design.


How so? That's as basic a structure as you can get. 


aaronniuk said:


> The quality of football was also brutal. If the mls is to improve they should put in place a player cap. No team is allowed to field more than 4 american players. Ive seen far better players playing in the Irish league in Northern Ireland. Rant over.


I'll take that last part as hyperbole, but as to the gist of your comment you're looking at two average-to-below-average teams in just their third week of the season, playing in as you noted less-than-ideal conditions. MLS is far from the highest quality league, but it's no pub league, either.


----------



## aaronniuk

I dont know, ive watched a few mls games on tv and too many players fancy themselves as quarterbacks, hoofing the ball long. More composure is needed on the ball which will decades to teach that style.

when Eddie Johnson is the DP, it sets a low bar. He scored 2 goals in england and finished up at Preston North End. 

The mls could do alot worse than recruiting players from a pub team.

johnny steele is doing pretty well at the redbulls and was playing in the northern irish league not so long ago


----------



## Bori427

Johnny Steele used to play in the 2nd tier with the PR Islanders.


----------



## westsidebomber

fuzzx said:


> Robb stated that 8,000 seats will be added "mostly" above the east stands while a "couple thousand" more would be added on another level above the cauldron. Is that where standing room is? or is it evenly distributed around/elsewhere?


I don't know how they expect to add seats above the Cauldron without some major renovations to the existing structure. The walkway up there is only about 10-15 feet wide and is already a clustercuss during games. I can't even imagine what adding "a couple thousand" people to the equation would do.


----------



## poguemahone

I checked out the interactive seat thing on the San Jose website, pretty cool looking at what the view would be from your potential season ticket seat. Also I didn't realise they have a standing section behind the goals, what is the standing capacity? It seemed quite small.


----------



## will101

poguemahone said:


> I checked out the interactive seat thing on the San Jose website, pretty cool looking at what the view would be from your potential season ticket seat. Also I didn't realise they have a standing section behind the goals, what is the standing capacity? It seemed quite small.


The interactive display is the work of a company called Ballena Technologies. Their site, with a bunch more of the 3D seating charts in the US and Canada, is here: http://www.seats3d.com/

I found a discussion on BigSoccer about the standing section. They use the figure of 300 people in that section. One person there is probably a member of the 1906 hooligans, and is critical of the small standing capacity, and the use of railings between rows of standees. Here's the link: http://www.bigsoccer.com/community/...um-2015-cant-come-soon-enough.1977354/page-68


----------



## Otto Racecar

aaronniuk said:


> I dont know, ive watched a few mls games on tv and too many players fancy themselves as quarterbacks, hoofing the ball long. More composure is needed on the ball which will decades to teach that style.
> 
> when Eddie Johnson is the DP, it sets a low bar. He scored 2 goals in england and finished up at Preston North End.
> 
> The mls could do alot worse than recruiting players from a pub team.
> 
> johnny steele is doing pretty well at the redbulls and was playing in the northern irish league not so long ago


Eddie Johnson also came into the league at a very low salary and had to work himself into a DP status. A lot of people feel he was a product of the service he received in seattle and is now showing his true characteristics in DC. We will see. Johnson did score 5 goals in international competition for the USMNT in 2013.

Johnny Steele played in northern ireland for 5 games 8 years ago. If anything, Steele is a product of the 2nd and 3rd divisions in the US where he has been basically since 2004. While steele had an ok year last year in his second season in MLS, he is at best an average to below average MLS player.

While I'm not doubting that the play was brutal in very poor conditions yesterday in DC, I'm wondering if you watched the Columbus and Seattle match as well. Columbus plays out of the back and it was a very entertaining match.

BTW, my father in law is from Northern Ireland and is a cliftonville supporter. I've watched many,many, matches from the premiership over the years and I think you clearly have some odd bias in your statements.


----------



## flashman

Aye, right enough there, Otto. Saw a fair few games in my time living in Bangor - Clandeboye and Windsor Parks. Gotta say that MLS is a couple of cuts above that level.

Catch yourself on, there, Aaron.


----------



## will101

aaronniuk said:


> DC United desperately need a new stadium.
> 
> I was at the game yesterday against Chicago Fire. Maybe it was the rain but the attendance was brutal.
> 
> The quality of football was also brutal. If the mls is to improve they should put in place a player cap. No team is allowed to field more than 4 american players. Ive seen far better players playing in the Irish league in Northern Ireland. Rant over.


:troll:


----------



## MarkJF

Regarding the DCU attendance, 9.5K doesn't appear "brutal" to me, around the same figure is an average crowd at many top tier leagues, Poland, Portugal, Russia, Sweden and will be higher than every 2nd level apart from England & Germany.


----------



## bd popeye

MarkJF said:


> Regarding the DCU attendance, 9.5K doesn't appear "brutal" to me, around the same figure is an average crowd at many top tier leagues, Poland, Portugal, Russia, Sweden and will be higher than every 2nd level apart from England & Germany.


Agreed.^^..As was pointed out..it's early in the season. Not many games have been played so far this season but MLS attendance is no where near brutal;


----------



## rantanamo

5portsF4n said:


> Wasn't comparing them to an MLS team was I? I was comparing them to other NHL teams. They are so amazingly popular that they rarely fill out an arena with a market of Dallas' size, while markets half the size do so with relative ease. Yeah, they're the pride of the south :nuts:


Personally, you can have them. Never asked them to come to town, nor did I personally care for hockey or the owner that brought them into town.


----------



## krnboy1009

Topher51 said:


> I only went to two Thrashers games (I lived in DC at the time, so I wasn't part of the problem), but both times the place was utterly empty. I'd be surprised if there was more than 5,000 in attendance. I am sure the soccer club will do better than that.


Nope.

Thrashers were awful.

And owners hated them literally.


----------



## WesTexas

JJG, Rantanamo and my self are examples of the pride in the Stars we have.

I actually have a lot of pride for all our Dallas teams. I want so badly for FC Dallas to be one of the major players in the MLS year in and year out and I am jealous of Seattle.


----------



## tinyslam

Blind pride is a valuable trait for a good sports fan (especially supporting a not so successful team). You especially need it to be a Cowboy fan these days. :baeh3: 

Anyway back on the topic of soccer lol


----------



## WesTexas

I agree.


----------



## Guest

Well, some big news. 

America will host the aptly named Copa America in 2016, which will be officially announced sometime in May according to Brian Straus of SI. 

All 10 CONMEBOL teams + 6 CONCACAF teams. 

US, Mexico are certainties. Next champions of Uncaf Cup and Caribbean Vup will earn entry. And top 2 nations at next years Gold Cup will earn the last two spots. I wish Canada got direct entry, but it looks like their ineptitude will prevent them from joining the elite yet again. 

Rumored stadiums:

Rose Bowl
Stanford
Metlife
Citrus Bowl
RFK
Reliant

I hope that isnt the final selection though. Its not a great selection.

Either way, this is the biggest soccer event in this country since 94. Looking forward to this more than the WC. I hope this also works to bring the two confederations closer together. Not a merger, WC qualifying can stay separate, but Copa America should be a 16 team comp with top 6 concacaf nations (decided by Gold Cup) permanently. 

Will also mean that summer 2016 will have both the Euros and Copa America. Cant wait.


----------



## carnifex2005

Those are bad locations especailly since the Citrus Bowl will have finished its renovations by then. That being said, RFK? That place is a shithole. I'm guessing it would either be FedEx or M&T Bank


----------



## bd popeye

5portsF4n



> Rumored stadiums:
> 
> Rose Bowl
> Stanford
> Metlife
> Citrus Bowl
> RFK
> Reliant


carnifex2005 sez;



> Those are bad locations especially since the Citrus Bowl will have finished its renovations by then.


We all know that RFK is not a good venue.. But why do you think these stadiums are "bad locations"? Thank you.


----------



## will101

bd popeye said:


> But why do you think these stadiums are "bad locations"? Thank you.


Stanford isn't bad, per se. But Levi's would be the better alternative for the Bay Area. It was designed with the World Cup in mind.


----------



## plmn

-deleted, moving to other hockey thread-


----------



## carnifex2005

bd popeye said:


> 5portsF4n
> 
> 
> 
> carnifex2005 sez;
> 
> 
> 
> We all know that RFK is not a good venue.. But why do you think these stadiums are "bad locations"? Thank you.


Oops. I meant to say those *aren't * bad locations (except RFK).



will101 said:


> Stanford isn't bad, per se. But Levi's would be the better alternative for the Bay Area. It was designed with the World Cup in mind.


True and it is a larger stadium as well.


----------



## Guest

will101 said:


> Stanford isn't bad, per se. But Levi's would be the better alternative for the Bay Area. It was designed with the World Cup in mind.


Just remember these rumored stadiums could be from when the plan was first announced years ago. It would be insane for Stanford to be preferred to Levi's, but I'm not putting it past organizers.


----------



## slipperydog

Rev players talk about new turf that was installed


----------



## Guest

Surely the most important development is that the Revs now have box goals?

I'm not convinced by the club speak going on about the turf, but I'll concede the point about bounce. Less bounce is always good. We'll see how it works out.


----------



## Guest

*Downtown Development Authority backs PortMiami soccer stadium*

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/04/11/4053884/downtown-development-authority.html#storylink=cpy



> *Miami’s Downtown Development Authority formally threw its support Friday behind David Beckham’s proposal to build a Major League Soccer stadium on PortMiami’s Dodge Island.*
> 
> *For pedestrians to get to the site, the DDA voted unanimously that Beckham’s group should privately finance — in its entirety — the redevelopment of an unused drawbridge to turn it into a linear park. Then, the board suggested the walkway should be named “Beckham Boulevard.”*
> 
> The park, which is outlined in Beckham’s proposal, would lead to a larger public plaza envisioned next to the stadium. Beckham’s representatives and the county have yet to discuss who would pay for those and other public improvements. *Beckham’s group has pledged to privately finance construction of the stadium, though it is seeking a state subsidy that acts like a sales-tax rebate and could amount to $40 million over 20 years.*
> 
> For Beckham and his investors, the largely symbolic DDA endorsement represented a bit of good news in a week when Miami-Dade County commissioners warned they might not be interested in a seaport stadium. Beckham’s team is in talks with Mayor Carlos Gimenez over the county-owned site.
> 
> The Miami Beach City Commission also voted against the port site this week, at the request of Mayor Philip Levine, who argues soccer fans and their automobiles would clog the MacArthur Causeway by entering and leaving the stadium through the soon-to-be-opened Port Tunnel.
> 
> In contrast, DDA board members had appeared ready to back Beckham’s idea in December, but they postponed a decision until the retired English player rolled out more detailed plans. Those plans, for a 25,000-seat waterfront stadium, were released late last month. Beckham’s real-estate advisor, John Alschuler, presented the project to the board Friday, as he has been doing with other civic groups.
> 
> (Attorney Neisen Kasdin, a Beckham lobbyist and the DDA’s vice-chairman, excused himself from the vote.)
> 
> As the chief promoter of downtown, the development authority has opposed the cash-strapped port’s plans to create a new office district on the same southwest corner Beckham has eyed for a stadium. The 36-acre area is too shallow to accommodate cruise or cargo ships, but the DDA doesn’t want a massive office and commercial development to compete with the mainland.
> 
> “ ‘Port City’ should not compete with the city of Miami,” said DDA chairman Marc Sarnoff, who is also a Miami city commissioner.
> 
> *A soccer stadium would leave room for some buildings to go up on the port, but they would represent a far smaller development than the port had envisioned.*
> 
> *Friday morning, Gimenez told a Spanish-language ESPN sports radio station in Miami that everyone weighing in on Beckham’s proposal needs to take a breath because the county has not yet agreed to the port site. Three other sites — next to the Miami Marlins’ ballpark, by Miami International Airport and at Florida International University — are also in play, though the port is Beckham’s first choice. *
> 
> “They’re anticipating something that hasn’t happened,” Gimenez said.
> 
> The mayor has not met with Beckham’s representatives in about a month, as the investors analyze potential construction costs and the financial viability of the stadium at the port and by Marlins Park in Little Havana.
> 
> Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/04/11/4053884/downtown-development-authority.html#storylink=cpy


Nothing major, but positive I suppose.


----------



## carnifex2005

Apparently the announcement for Atlanta will be happening on April 16th...










Also, Minnesota Twins owner Jim Pohlad confirmed this week that his family is interested in investing in a possible MLS franchise with Minnesota United owner Bill McGuire.


----------



## mamangvilla

Based on the announcement pic it looks like Atlanta will use the same main colour as the Falcons, any possible names yet? Maybe another bird of prey?

Midwest should get at least one more franchise, Minnesota looks eager and ready.


----------



## willygtoc

More like the original Atlanta Hawks colors.


----------



## Bori427

Minneapolis will be the 24th


----------



## Archbishop

First Indy Eleven game














































Trying to find better pictures. Atmosphere was crazy. Attendance was 11,048, but for the rest of the games capacity will be 10,385.


----------



## flashman

IllumL8ker said:


> *What happened to this?:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It may be because of the renovations to Frank Clair but that being said there is a new stadium being built in Ottawa that could house a MLS team... 4-5/26-25 is a good ratio for CAN to US MLS teams if they stop expanding rapidly at 30: (Edmonton too)


The man who wanted to build it, Eugene Melnyk, had a rough few years. He owns the Ottawa Senators NHL team, and that stadium in the top picture would have been built right next door to his Canadian Tire Centre arena in suburban Kanata.

But Big Euge had a marriage go south on him - with a heavy settlement - and had a boardroom battle rattle his corporate cage. He's since emerged re-invigorated and back at the forefront of the Ottawa sports scene. Having lost the political battle over who would get to build their stadium, he can do little right now but wait and see how things fare with the new CFL team. 

They're off to an encouraging start with ticket sales yet we've seen that before and, given past histories of failed franchises in Ottawa, it may well come to pass that the RedBlacks expire. Until that happens, soccer takes a back seat to football in Ottawa. MLS commissioner Don Garber has been encouraging about having a team in Ottawa someday, so if Melnyk wants to pursue it, he may yet land one.


----------



## vitaming

slipperydog said:


> where is this guy from


Me? Currently based in Atlanta.

LA is a joke of a sports town. No NFL and USC can't even get a decent crowd after a couple of mediocre seasons.


----------



## bd popeye

vitaming said:


> Me? Currently based in Atlanta.
> 
> LA is a joke of a sports town. No NFL and USC can't even get a decent crowd after a couple of mediocre seasons.


What do you consider a decent crowd?

USC averaged over 73,000 a game last season. UCLA averaged over 70,000 a game.

Check the #19 & #21st team in the chart.

*2013 NCAA DIVISION I FBS ATTENDANCE TEAM LEADERS*


----------



## vitaming

Or we can use the eyeball test.


----------



## Guest

If you want to talk about college football attendance, go elsewhere. 

vitaming many people have reservations about Atlanta, but hey, it could be worse, they could be NYCFC.


----------



## slipperydog

vitaming said:


> Or we can use the eyeball test.


Just stop. You have no f*cking clue.


----------



## will101

*Royal Caribbean leads alliance against David Beckham soccer stadium at PortMiami*

From the Miami Herald:


> Royal Caribbean Cruises and its allies have formed an organization to oppose a Major League Soccer stadium at PortMiami, marking the first coordinated resistance to David Beckham’s waterfront dream.
> 
> The Miami Seaport Alliance took out a full-page advertisement in Monday’s Miami Herald, titled “Here We Go Again,” to launch its campaign against the 25,000-seat, open-air stadium that Beckham and his representatives have proposed for the port’s shallow-water southwest corner.
> 
> “The Alliance wholeheartedly supports a soccer franchise in Miami and believes there are other sites that would benefit greatly from a stadium,” the ad said. “However, PortMiami is not one of them, due to the risks a port stadium would pose to jobs, cruise and cargo operations, security, and the port’s promising future.”
> 
> A Coral Gables public-relations firm, Kreps DeMaria, registered the alliance’s website last week, records show, on the same day that several Miami-Dade County commissioners — who voted unanimously in December for Mayor Carlos Gimenez to begin negotiations with Beckham’s team — cautioned that they might not be on board with a stadium at the port.
> 
> “People are responding to speculation,” John Alschuler, Beckham’s real-estate adviser, said Monday. “I’ve got confidence that commissioners, when presented with a formal recommendation by the mayor — and a full, factual briefing — will respond to the facts.”
> 
> Other stadium locations, including next to the Miami Marlins’ Little Havana ballpark, are also under consideration, though Beckham has said PortMiami, with its views of the downtown skyline, is his top choice.
> 
> Gimenez has vowed to charge “fair” rent for any stadium on county-owned land. Beckham has pledged private funding for stadium construction, though his franchise is seeking a state subsidy that could amount to $40 million over 20 years.


The rest of the story, and a video, are here.


----------



## will101

vitaming said:


> Or we can use the eyeball test.


And using said eyeball test on the angle of the shadows, we can tell that this was taken when the Sun was almost directly at it's highest point, possibly 90 minutes before game time. Way to shoot yourself in the foot.


----------



## vitaming

15 min prior to ko.

Immediately prior:










Anyway, LA is a crap sports town being the main point. Though not as bad as Atlanta.


----------



## will101

vitaming said:


> 15 min prior to ko.


Try again. The shadows do not lie. USC games start at 1:30 at the earliest.


> Immediately prior:


No, the teams come back out roughly 10-15 minutes before kickoff, not immediately before. And I notice that you were careful to show the *unused end of the stadium*.


> Anyway, LA is a crap sports town being the main point. Though not as bad as Atlanta.


You still haven't shown any evidence of your conclusions.


----------



## slipperydog

Oh yeah. 12,000 seats are empty in a 91,000 seat stadium. HOLY. S***.


----------



## Topher51

slipperydog said:


> Not sure why it would have to be in the Bronx. What's wrong with the Meadowlands?


As was previously stated, there is already a team in Jersey and NYCFC is trying to set itself apart from them and establish a fan base on the other side of the metro area. That is why.


----------



## shhyvoodoo

vitaming said:


> Or we can use the eyeball test.


 Cant believe you used a photo during the pregame or halftime to validate your point... The sad thing is you thought this was a good idea....


----------



## bd popeye

will101 said:


> You still haven't shown any evidence of your conclusions.


And I don't think USC or UCLA fudge on the attendance figures. they can't.. they have to share ticket revenues with the visiting teams. I believe that is an NCAA standard.

vitaming states;


> Anyway, LA is a crap sports town being the main point. Though not as bad as Atlanta.


I think attendance is a barometer of fan support...check the Dodgers, Angels, Lakers, Kings , Ducks attendance figures..Even the Clippers the last few seasons. 

As an example here's the Dodgers home attendance since 1995.



How about the most popular team in LA.. the Lakers?..since 1999.



This season '13 & '14 the Lakers have averaged 18,828 a game ..Clippers 19,212..wow! I did not know that.. How about the Kings?...19,017. 
the Ducks...16,469.


----------



## slipperydog

Topher51 said:


> As was previously stated, there is already a team in Jersey and NYCFC is trying to set itself apart from them and establish *a fan base on the other side of the metro area.* That is why.


Wait...New York Giants fans are all from Jersey?


----------



## bd popeye

Well now..since this thread is about "Soccer Stadiums of the USA and Canada" here's the attendance figures for the MLS through 04.12.2014;


----------



## carnifex2005

*De Blasio begins ‘dialogue’ on Bronx soccer stadium*

Mayor Bill de Blasio has not given up on former mayor Michael Bloomberg's proposal for a soccer stadium near Yankee Stadium.

"The de Blasio administration has begun a dialogue with key stakeholders on how to best proceed on the construction of a soccer stadium that also invests in community benefits, preserves public space and provides good-paying jobs," Marti Adams, a de Blasio spokesperson, told Capital.

Today, the New York Times reported that New York City Football Club, a team owned by Manchester City’s Sheik Mansour bin Zayed al-Nahyan and the Yankees, would have to play in Yankee Stadium for the next three years, because New York City's first professional soccer team still doesn't have a permanent home.

Finding the football club a permanent home was one of the primary late-term development goals for Bloomberg, whose office conducted a flurry of negotiations in his final months to secure the team a site in the Bronx.

In early December, the administration reached a tentative deal with the club to build a stadium just south of the site of the old Yankee Stadium.

The agreement required the team to underwrite the relocation of an apparently thriving elevator company on the site, and to reach a deal with investors holding bonds on the underwater parking lots built alongside Yankee Stadium.

But, to the professed consternation of then-mayor-elect de Blasio, the deal came with some indirect subsidies in the form of tax breaks and access to tax-exempt bonds.

“We have real concerns about investing scarce public resources and forgoing revenue to support the creation of an arena for a team co-owned by one of the world’s wealthiest individuals, and will review any plan with that in mind,” de Blasio’s then-spokeswoman, Lis Smith, told the Times.

Since then, whatever dialogue the administration has been participating in has been a muted one.

A City Hall spokesman declined to say who the adminstration was talking to.

Two knowledgeable sources told me they knew of no substantive administration efforts to reach a deal on the stadium.

In order for the old deal to acquire a new life, one of those sources told me that in addition to the intra-borough elevator company relocation and a deal with the bondholders, the New York City Football Club would have to be willing to move forward with no subsidies, direct or indirect.

"NYCFC is looking for a home, not simply a place to play," said soccer club spokeswoman Risa Heller, in a statement. "We are working with the Administration to find a world class site."


----------



## carnifex2005

Also some very early smack talk from the Columbus supporters group to the new Atlanta franchise...


----------



## Bori427

IllumL8ker said:


> It may be because of the renovations to Frank Clair but that being said there is a new stadium being built in Ottawa that could house a MLS team... 4-5/26-25 is a good ratio for CAN to US MLS teams if they stop expanding rapidly at 30: (Edmonton too)


Why do you think that's a good ratio?

You do know there's over 20 bigger markets in the US without an MLS team right?


----------



## Archbishop

slipperydog said:


> And?


And New Jersey has a team and they don't want to play in an 80,000 seat stadium. The Meadowlands is a terrible location. It's New York CITY FC, and they plan on playing in the city.


----------



## SJAnfield

carnifex2005 said:


> Also some very early smack talk from the Columbus supporters group to the new Atlanta franchise...


That is hilarious! Bravo Columbus!


----------



## krudmonk

BoulderGrad said:


> ^^Hey cool, we're still talking about USC attendance...





Archbishop said:


> I don't know what I hate more: USC football or a USC football attendance discussion hijacking this thread.


Actually, you guys just made a debate on LA and Atlanta sports fans into one on USC.


----------



## Otto Racecar

SJAnfield said:


> That is hilarious! Bravo Columbus!


The main guy behind massive city is an excellent artist/designer in my opinion. Check out the massive city website for a 28 day countdown to the start of the season in which he made a new concept crest for the crew each day. Good stuff. He's also the guy behind the HOME tifo for the most recent US-Mexico match in Columbus.


----------



## slipperydog

Topher51 said:


> Football is different and you know it. Most of the games are not on week nights, they only play 8 home games, and the sport is far more popular. If people were not opposed to taking a train to Jersey for the games, the Red Bull would have no trouble selling out every match.
> 
> Not that I have the numbers to back this up, but percentage wise, how much of the Brooklyn Nets fans that are going to the games are the same people that went to the games in Jersey. I'd bet 20%, tops.


New Yorkers have been going to the Meadowlands for generations. The same can't be said for Red Bull Arena. I do marketing and brand management consulting, and if I were starting a team from scratch and trying to build excitement in a fan base, I would start the team in a real stadium, one that they know well, then move to the Bronx when the stadium is ready. 

Playing in Yankee Stadium makes the game look like a summer friendly. Just amateur.


----------



## tinyslam

Red Bulls started out in Giant's Stadium (and played there for over a decade) so I'm not sure what you're trying to say.


----------



## vitaming

slipperydog said:


> New Yorkers have been going to the Meadowlands for generations. The same can't be said for Red Bull Arena. I do marketing and brand management consulting, and if I were starting a team from scratch and trying to build excitement in a fan base, I would start the team in a real stadium, one that they know well, then move to the Bronx when the stadium is ready.
> 
> Playing in Yankee Stadium makes the game look like a summer friendly. Just amateur.


It's an iconic stadium and lends the team credibility to casual NY sports fans. You're not thinking like a niche marketer, not a mass one.


----------



## krudmonk

tinyslam said:


> Red Bulls started out in Giant's Stadium (and played there for over a decade) so I'm not sure what you're trying to say.


As did the then-world-famous NASL Cosmos, whose current successors went all out to proclaim how NYC they are, as opposed to the fake "New York" offered across the Hudson.


----------



## will101

vitaming said:


> It's an iconic stadium...


No, it's just the tackiest of the new stadiums. The iconic one used to stand across the street.


----------



## weava

Topher51 said:


> Now that is funny!
> 
> While a good portion of the south is still not over "The War of Northern Agression," I don't see the many of those people going to soccer matches.
> 
> The NHL comparison is a bad analogy. * Youth Hockey is not played in the south.* Youth Soccer is all over the south. Football is king there (college football, specifically), but I see the MLS doing pretty well there since most people at least understand the game.
> 
> The stadium will be MARTA accessible, so the traffic will not hurt attendance in the same way it does for Braves games. The stadium also in the center of the metro area, not 45 minutes away from it like in Foxboro.
> 
> As long as they don't come up with some stupid name and logo, I am willing to give Atlanta a chance.


NHL teams have helped get many rinks built in their cities to create hockey culture and youth leagues in their cities. I know Dallas built a bunch of suburban rinks when the Stars moved there and I know Atlanta has youth league rinks due to the NHL being there because I have a cousin who plays youth hockey in suburban atlanta...


----------



## will101

Roofing and flooring going in at the Quakes stadium


----------



## matthemod

I thought the whole point of NYCFC was that they were advertising themselves as distinctly New York in the way that the Metrostars/Redbulls have been unable to fulfil as a result of being stationed in New Jersey. 

I guess the way to see it is to compare them with the Knicks vs the Nets in basketball, not that the Knicks aren't in New York, but that the Nets a aiming for a very specific catchment area.


----------



## tinyslam

Yea nobody wants to be associated with NJ:moods:

Except for the Devils


----------



## eMKay

carnifex2005 said:


> Also some very early smack talk from the Columbus supporters group to the new Atlanta franchise...


:lol::lol::lol::lol:

For those that forgot their history (or the foreigners who can be excused for not knowing who this is) This is General Sherman, he burned Atlanta to the ground and everything else he could from Atlanta to Savannah. Terrible I know but it sure makes a funny rivalry poster!


----------



## JJG

tinyslam said:


> Yea nobody wants to be associated with NJ:moods:
> 
> *Except for the Devils*


I don't even think the Devils wanna be there...


----------



## master_klon

NASL - Tampa Bay Rowdies - Al Lang Stadium

They have recently installed these new seats along the sideline.


----------



## master_klon

14 April

Earthquakes Stadium


----------



## Guest

REPORT: VIKINGS INCREASING EFFORTS TO BRING MLS TO MINNEAPOLIS

Are there any concepts for this supposed capacity reduction mechanism? 



> With Major League Soccer set to announce its latest expansion team in Atlanta Wednesday afternoon, the Minnesota Vikings are maneuvering to secure one of the two remaining expansion slots for Minneapolis.
> 
> Just as Atlanta’s future MLS team will be operated by an owner from the National Football League, *the Vikings are leading the charge to acquire an MLS expansion franchise to play at their new 65,000-seat stadium, expected to be completed in 2016.*
> 
> Speaking at a local business luncheon, Vikings vice president of public affairs, Lester Bagley, said that the team was “stepping up” it’s efforts to bring an MLS team to the city, and that they weren’t alone in their efforts.
> 
> “We’ve been stepping up our conversations with the MLS,” Bagley told the Pioneer Press. “There are definitely other interests in the market,” he added.
> 
> *Those other interests reportedly include Minnesota Twins owner Jim Pohlad and NASL club Minnesota United FC owner Bill McGuire. The Vikings are owned by Zygi Wilf.*
> 
> *Bagley also mentioned to the Pioneer Press that the new Vikings stadium has a “house reduction mechanism” that would bring capacity down to 20,000-30,000 to give the feel of a more intimate setting. This process is similar to what the Vancouver Whitecaps do at BC Place.*
> 
> The field at the new Vikings Stadium allows for an MLS pitch of up to 121 x 72 yards. Most MLS pitches are anywhere between 110-120 x 75 yards.
> 
> MLS commissioner Don Garber has previously stated that MLS plants to expand to 24 teams by 2020. Currently at 19 teams, the league will expand to 21 in 2015 with the inclusion of New York City FC and Orlando City SC.
> 
> Atlanta is expected to be the 22nd franchise, and Miami could be close behind if David Backham’s group can secure funding for a soccer-specific stadium and build it in the downtown area. If Miami does receive an expansion team, it would leave just one spot up for grabs with a number of cities—including Minneapolis, San Antonio, and Sacramento—all vying for entry into the U.S. and Canada’s top tier of soccer.


http://www.soccerbyives.net/2014/04/increasing-receive-minneapolis.html


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^I got into this discussion on Reddit. The United FC guys have the reputation of being more dedicated and in tune with the fans, while Wilf is not as liked.

However the Twins/United proposal is revolving around having their own SSS. I could be wrong, but wouldn't that make Minneapolis/St paul the only metro area with every single major sports franchise (and even college team for that matter) in their own barn?

Vikings: Jawa Tank
Twins: Target Field
Wolves: Target Stadium
Wild: Xcel Energy Center
United FC: Future SSS
Minnesota Footbal: TCF Bank
Minnesota Basketball: Williams Arena
Minnesota Hockey: Marriucci Arena

Those are all pretty major facilities in their own right. How can they all possibly be self supporting?


----------



## vitaming

master_klon said:


> NASL - Tampa Bay Rowdies - Al Lang Stadium
> 
> They have recently installed these new seats along the sideline.


That has the potential to be converted into a nice little stadium for that level. Great views of the water on the old 'outfield' side.


----------



## will101

master_klon said:


> NASL - Tampa Bay Rowdies - Al Lang Stadium
> 
> They have recently installed these new seats along the sideline.


This is similar to Buck Shaw.


----------



## Benn

BoulderGrad said:


> ^^I got into this discussion on Reddit. The United FC guys have the reputation of being more dedicated and in tune with the fans, while Wilf is not as liked.
> 
> However the Twins/United proposal is revolving around having their own SSS. I could be wrong, but wouldn't that make Minneapolis/St paul the only metro area with every single major sports franchise (and even college team for that matter) in their own barn?
> 
> Vikings: Jawa Tank
> Twins: Target Field
> Wolves: Target Stadium
> Wild: Xcel Energy Center
> United FC: Future SSS
> Minnesota Footbal: TCF Bank
> Minnesota Basketball: Williams Arena
> Minnesota Hockey: Marriucci Arena
> 
> Those are all pretty major facilities in their own right. How can they all possibly be self supporting?


We like to be entertained:cheers:

I can't think of any other cities like that because so many have both NHL and NBA under one roof. Minneapolis St. Paul also has more performing arts seats per capita than anywhere besides Manhattan. 

At any rate stadiums are almost never financially self supporting (some arenas bring in enough from multiple pro teams and concert fees to be profitable). They all will lose money for the municipality if owned by the local government. Same is true for convention centers etc. So yeah we probably lose more money on our venues than most metros, they are nice places to be entertained for a couple hours though. Fun fact, the only American pro stadium to pay off its cost and regularly turn an operating profit? The Metrodome, which will almost certainly remain the only one to do so.

This scenario would be contingent on the MLS going with the McGuire/Twins bid, which I am still not entirely sure will win out unless they can get that new stadium situation figured out in the near term.


----------



## Topher51

slipperydog said:


> New Yorkers have been going to the Meadowlands for generations. The same can't be said for Red Bull Arena. I do marketing and brand management consulting, and if I were starting a team from scratch and trying to build excitement in a fan base, I would start the team in a real stadium, one that they know well, then move to the Bronx when the stadium is ready.
> 
> Playing in Yankee Stadium makes the game look like a summer friendly. Just amateur.


So, Yankee Stadium, which also a somewhat well known venue, is 500' from where the new stadium will be and smack in the middle of the area they want to market their team is not as good a choice for a temporary home as a stadium that is in another MLS team's terrirory that had a 20 year head start on NYCFC? That and New Yorkers have been going to East Rutherford for football games for exactly 37 years. Let's save the term "generations" for when we are talking about Soldier Field or Lambeau.


----------



## Topher51

weava said:


> NHL teams have helped get many rinks built in their cities to create hockey culture and youth leagues in their cities. I know Dallas built a bunch of suburban rinks when the Stars moved there and I know Atlanta has youth league rinks due to the NHL being there because I have a cousin who plays youth hockey in suburban atlanta...


Let me rephrases: youth hockey is not played in the south outside of the cities that have teams and even there, it is relatively small percentage of the youth that play it. Even in DC, there were maybe 8 rinks in the metro area. Therefore, soutehrn NHL teams are largely marketing to people who didnt grow up playing the sport. In Pittsburgh (where I currently live), there are 5 rinks within ten minutes of my house and probably 25 in a metro area that has 1/3 the population of the DC metro area. 

Conversely, youth soccer is played in every city, town, and county in the south. I'd be willing to bet there are far more kids playing soccer in Georgia than even little league baseball. Don't get me wrong, I love hockey, but I think the potential for the Atlanta MLS team to succeed is far better than it was for the Thrashers.

BTW, I have been told by friends who live in Atlanta that the group that bought the Thrashers from Ted Turner basically didn't market the team at all. Unless you are the Yankees, Cowboys, Lakers, etc, the tickets don't sell themselves.


----------



## GunnerJacket

weava said:


> NHL teams have helped get many rinks built in their cities to create hockey culture and youth leagues in their cities. I know Dallas built a bunch of suburban rinks when the Stars moved there and I know Atlanta has youth league rinks due to the NHL being there because I have a cousin who plays youth hockey in suburban atlanta...


There are four ice skating venues in metro Atlanta, one of which was built for/by the Thrashers with two rinks that hosts the most hockey. There were plans for 2 more but then the ownership that inherited the Thrashers when they bought the Hawks and Philips Arena cancelled those plans.


----------



## slipperydog

Topher51 said:


> So, Yankee Stadium, which also a somewhat well known venue, is 500' from where the new stadium will be and *smack in the middle of the area they want to market their team *is not as good a choice for a temporary home as a stadium that is in another MLS team's terrirory that had a 20 year head start on NYCFC? That and New Yorkers have been going to East Rutherford for football games for exactly 37 years. Let's save the term "generations" for when we are talking about Soldier Field or Lambeau.


For one, I highly doubt their primary objective is to market their team to the Bronx. In any case, that’s a very limited and antiquated view of marketing. Today, it’s less about bricks and mortar than it is about the brand. The way to reach people has changed dramatically over the past 10 years. People are now connected more than ever, so it’s about presentation, optics, and having a robust presence on a variety of digital platforms. That’s how you build a brand from scratch. That’s how you market. The reason they are playing in Yankee Stadium is financially-motivated, but it’s very poor brand management. Not to mention, they are not going to be building good will with a large portion of the fans they are supposedly trying to market to given the initial reaction from those who aren’t too happy the baseball field is going to be in a constant state of flux.

What the marketing team should have done is get the stadium plan finalized, so that their fans can get excited about the stadium renderings, but in the meantime still be able to support the team in a stadium actually designed for their sport.


----------



## Lumbergo

vitaming said:


> That has the potential to be converted into a nice little stadium for that level. Great views of the water on the old 'outfield' side.


that's actually the plan. but the SPBC (st petersburg baseball commission) who owns Al Lang is holding out - they've convinced themselves that the stadium is still viable as a spring training venue despite the fact that no MLB team has used it in years and those that have in the past all have their own spring training parks now. Rowdie fans and their new owner Bill Edwards have been pressuring the SPBC to sell the stadium to the Rowdies. the fact that they were allowed to construct temporary "premium" seating in the outfield this year is a big deal.


----------



## ielag

slipperydog said:


> What the marketing team should have done is get the stadium plan finalized, so that their fans can get excited about the stadium renderings, but in the meantime still be able to support the team in a stadium actually designed for their sport.


This is one instance where MLS and the MLS owners pushed for the team before the stadium, for TV purposes and just to get the brand into NYC. 

Kansas City completely proves your notion false that you can't build a fan base while playing in a stadium not designed for soccer (remember their minor league baseball stadium?) without a soccer specific stadium plan in place. Sporting Park wasn't approved until late in KC's 2nd year at the baseball stadium.


----------



## Guest

ielag said:


> Kansas City completely proves your notion false that you can't build a fan base while playing in a stadium not designed for soccer (remember their minor league baseball stadium?) without a soccer specific stadium plan in place. Sporting Park wasn't approved until late in KC's 2nd year at the baseball stadium.


Wizards/SKC built a fanbase playing at CommunityAmerica? Seriously? 

The stadium had a capacity of around 10k, and yes, the Wizards averaged around 10k. But that 10k number was no different to the numbers that came out to Arrowhead. The only difference was that the stadium was suited for that type of attendance, whereas Arrowhead wasn't. 

Sporting KC's elevated success is down to three things: the rebrand, the stadium, and a winning team (all of which stem from new ownership). They could probably find 10k people to come playing at a greyhound track. That next step wasn't taken until the SSS was built.

The only thing SKC have disproved, to my initial bewilderment, is that the idea of a *downtown *SSS is crucial for success.


----------



## ielag

5portsF4n said:


> Wizards/SKC built a fanbase playing at CommunityAmerica? Seriously?
> 
> The stadium had a capacity of around 10k, and yes, the Wizards averaged around 10k. But that 10k number was no different to the numbers that came out to Arrowhead. The only difference was that the stadium was suited for that type of attendance, whereas Arrowhead wasn't.
> 
> Sporting KC's elevated success is down to three things: the rebrand, the stadium, and a winning team (all of which stem from new ownership). They could probably find 10k people to come playing at a greyhound track. That next step wasn't taken until the SSS was built.
> 
> The only thing SKC have disproved, to my initial bewilderment, is that the idea of a *downtown *SSS is crucial for success.


OnGoal had set everything in place while they were playing at that ballpark. The promotion, the dialogue with the fans, it was all built during that time. Then the new stadium and rebrand was the reward of all the hard work they had put into the franchise before that. They built a demand for the Wizards while they were playing there, season ticket sales were higher there than at Arrowhead. They could've easily average more at that ballpark if they had the ability to add more seating. The fact that they were averaging the same at the ballpark as they did at Arrowhead tells you they were doing a good job.

There's more than just opening a new stadium and giving your team a new name. Nobody has replicated what KC has done with an already existing franchise. Otherwise all the original MLS teams that opened their own SSS would have had the same success as KC.

It's not like OnGoal just became good owners in 2011 when Sporting Park opened. First they saved your franchise from moving to freaking Tulsa when they bought the team in 2006, then they went to promoting the team, then they got the stadium built and then put a good product on the field.


----------



## carnifex2005

*Soccer stadium at PortMiami location would cost $50 million more, David Beckham group says
*

A Major League Soccer stadium at PortMiami would cost David Beckham and his investors $50 million more to build than at other locations — bringing the total project cost to about $250 million — but they still want to pursue the publicly owned waterfront site, the group said Friday.

Beckham’s group has spent the past month reviewing construction costs for a 25,000-seat, open-air port stadium, whose designs it unveiled in March.

Architects and builders finished their analysis, and on Thursday, Beckham’s real-estate advisor told Miami-Dade Mayor Carlos Gimenez that the investors believe they can afford the privately financed construction. A lobbyist for the franchise is seeking a state subsidy that acts like a sales-tax rebate that could amount to $40 million over 20 years.

Of the entire stadium price tag at the port, $50 million would have to be spent on elevating the stadium from ground level — the port’s Dodge Island is considered a flood zone — as well as on creating a public plaza adjacent to the stadium, and on relocating parking and a daycare center for the neighboring Royal Caribbean Cruises headquarters, Beckham advisor John Alschuler said Friday.

A stadium at one of the three other sites on the group’s list, including next to the Miami Marlins’ ballpark, would not incur similar expenses.

But Alschuler said a stadium on the bay with views of the downtown skyline would sell professional soccer better in terms of sponsorships, advertising and luxury suites sold, and thus would contribute more to the franchise’s financial bottom line.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/04/...um-would-grow-construction.html#storylink=cpy


----------



## GunnerJacket

I think the port setting for Miami is fantastic, but hopefully they're not short changing their long-term potential for growth.


----------



## carnifex2005

GunnerJacket said:


> I think the port setting for Miami is fantastic, but hopefully they're not short changing their long-term potential for growth.


This quote in the story makes it sound like they potential could have tons of room for growth and other opportunities...

_"That increased revenue estimate doesn’t take into account the possibility that the group, in addition to building on the 12-acre stadium site, could also develop the remainder of the 36 acres on the port’s southwest corner, according to Alschuler. Beckham’s organization could vie to become the master developer of an additional 1-million-square-foot commercial complex that, according to placeholder renderings, could accommodate two hotels and two office buildings."_


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

Concrete work is progressing steadily in San Jose


http://www.sjearthquakes.com/newstadium/webcam%20


----------



## joezierer

carnifex2005 said:


> Also some very early smack talk from the Columbus supporters group to the new Atlanta franchise...


I'm sure the atlanta fans will have funny posters about columbus history like

-
-
-
-
-


----------



## Guest

Indy Eleven draw a crowd on a big sports night in Downtown Indy

Basically another sell out for Indy Eleven (10,421), who were playing at the same time as the Pacers and the local Triple-A ball club. 












> On a rather busy sports Saturday for Indianapolis, the Indy Eleven emerged impressively from another tied soccer game.
> 
> That's because on a night with a lot going on elsewhere in town, 10,421 fans gave their endorsement for soccer. They arrived early in the afternoon to tailgate outside IUPUI's Carroll Stadium before Indy tied the Tampa Bay Rowdies 1-1.
> 
> The expansion franchise has exceeded capacity for both of its North American Soccer League games that ended 1-1. But this time, give the new team props for drawing a decent crowd at the same time the Indiana Pacers hosted Atlanta in the NBA Playoffs at Bankers Life Fieldhouse and the Triple-A Indianapolis Indians hosted Louisville in International League baseball at nearby Victory Field. More than 35,000 people were watching sports in Indianapolis on Saturday night.
> 
> "When I heard the about the Pacers game and the Indians game — the Indians have freaking 80 home games anyway — but the first playoff game for the Pacers is quite a big deal, isn't it?" said Indy keeper Kristian Nicht, who made six saves.
> 
> "It's fantastic. It shows a lot for the city and for (our) franchise."
> 
> "It shows that soccer has a place in our sports community," said fan Peter Evans, 26, Westfield, Ind.
> 
> "We just give the illusion that we're leading it. The mob runs itself," Evans said with pride. "Everybody shows up and gives a full 90 (minutes)."
> 
> As well as five minutes of stoppage time this night.
> 
> "It doesn't matter who you are, what you're about, where you came from, it's about coming here and having fun and being accepting of everyone," Boyd said.
> 
> This sport offers a kaleidoscope of jersey colors, the names on the back synonymous with soccer greatness — Ronaldo, Kaka, Drogba, Neymar. Some fans didn't even come into the stadium. They paid $10 and watched from the roof of an adjacent parking garage across New York Street.
> 
> ....More in the link below


http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...crowd-big-sports-night-downtown-indy/7926857/


----------



## carnifex2005

Orlando City SC announced they'll be playing the entire 2015 season in the Citrus Bowl today...






The plan is to play in their SSS in 2016.


----------



## slipperydog

Official announcement today. Expected layout for NYC FC games


----------



## Topher51

slipperydog said:


> For one, I highly doubt their primary objective is to market their team to the Bronx. In any case, that’s a very limited and antiquated view of marketing. Today, it’s less about bricks and mortar than it is about the brand. The way to reach people has changed dramatically over the past 10 years. People are now connected more than ever, so it’s about presentation, optics, and having a robust presence on a variety of digital platforms. That’s how you build a brand from scratch. That’s how you market. The reason they are playing in Yankee Stadium is financially-motivated, but it’s very poor brand management. Not to mention, they are not going to be building good will with a large portion of the fans they are supposedly trying to market to given the initial reaction from those who aren’t too happy the baseball field is going to be in a constant state of flux.
> 
> What the marketing team should have done is get the stadium plan finalized, so that their fans can get excited about the stadium renderings, but in the meantime still be able to support the team in a stadium actually designed for their sport.


I completely agree that they should have at least released some conceptual stadium renderings in conjunction with the Yankee Stadium annoucement. 

I don't understand what marketing to smart phones has to do with where the games are played though. A fan could know every conceivable things about a team through their NYCFC app and still not want to take a train to New Jersey for a weeknight game. And if you go back, I never said the team was trying to market to the Bronx. I said New York.


----------



## tinyslam

slipperydog said:


> Official announcement today. Expected layout for NYC FC games


So there will be temporary grass over the infield dirt during soccer games that's good but I wonder how consistent the pitch will be. If the quality of the grass is the same for the permanent outfield and the temporary infield grass. I wonder if there will be any seams between the two that might cause problems. Definitely better than playing on strips of dirt though


----------



## slipperydog

Topher51 said:


> I completely agree that they should have at least released some conceptual stadium renderings in conjunction with the Yankee Stadium annoucement.
> 
> I don't understand what marketing to smart phones has to do with where the games are played though. A fan could know every conceivable things about a team through their NYCFC app and still not want to take a train to New Jersey for a weeknight game. And if you go back, I never said the team was trying to market to the Bronx. I said New York.


Marketing on social media, building youth academy satellites throughout the metro, advertising campaigns on subways, hosting fan events at City Hall and in pubs throughout the city, etc. helps build your brand and gets folks excited about the team. Where you actually play your games is just a part of the picture. As long you as have a presence in New York, you don't have to play your games IN the city limits of New York to start out. Yes, a fan in Brooklyn or Long Island may not be able to make the trek to the Meadowlands on a Monday night, but that’s fine, as long as they are excited about the team and know that something better is on the way. As long as you do a good job of positioning yourself as the city’s team, fans from the city will be there. Plus, they aren't JUST trying to market to New York. They want to market to the suburbs in New Jersey, Connecticut, and up the Hudson. When you’re just starting out, building brand equity and amassing fans of the club is the most important thing. Playing in Yankee Stadium is a joke. It doesn't look serious. The atmosphere will be horrible. No one wants to be part of something amateur.


----------



## Topher51

slipperydog said:


> Marketing on social media, building youth academy satellites throughout the metro, advertising campaigns on subways, hosting fan events at City Hall and in pubs throughout the city, etc. helps build your brand and gets folks excited about the team. Where you actually play your games is just a part of the picture. As long you as have a presence in New York, you don't have to play your games IN the city limits of New York to start out. Yes, a fan in Brooklyn or Long Island may not be able to make the trek to the Meadowlands on a Monday night, but that’s fine, as long as they are excited about the team and know that something better is on the way. As long as you do a good job of positioning yourself as the city’s team, fans from the city will be there. Plus, they aren't JUST trying to market to New York. They want to market to the suburbs in New Jersey, Connecticut, and up the Hudson. When you’re just starting out, building brand equity and amassing fans of the club is the most important thing. Playing in Yankee Stadium is a joke. It doesn't look serious. The atmosphere will be horrible. No one wants to be part of something amateur.


I still don't agree with you, but I appreciate your insight. You certainly made some points I had not thought of. 

Let me ask you this, do you think it would have been a better or worse idea for NYCFC to play matches at various stadiums throughout the metro area (including MetLife and Yankee Stadium) over the next three years to market itself, or would that be so confusing that attendance would suffer b/c no one would remember when they were playing there? Sort of like the time I took a taxi to the wrong airport!


----------



## slipperydog

Topher51 said:


> I still don't agree with you, but I appreciate your insight. You certainly made some points I had not thought of.
> 
> Let me ask you this, do you think it would have been a better or worse idea for NYCFC to play matches at various stadiums throughout the metro area (including MetLife and Yankee Stadium) over the next three years to market itself, or would that be so confusing that attendance would suffer b/c no one would remember when they were playing there? Sort of like the time I took a taxi to the wrong airport!


Mutliple stadiums would probably be confusing. I don't mind the idea of Yankee Stadium being a one-game type novelty, but I think you need a proper football arena to really be taken seriously. Especially if you are already having to battle against the notion of being a Manchester City farm team and a shill for their brand. That's not to say that the club will be a complete failure, I just think it's just a missed opportunity. This team was rushed through while Bloomberg was in office, and no one in Manchester, the Bronx, or the league office seemed to think it through. The Cosmos didn't really suffer by playing in the Meadowlands. While I'm not saying MetLife is the ideal scenario, I do think it's the BEST one for getting the club off the ground.


----------



## 3tmk

Metlife sucks, I don't want to go to NJ to watch the austrian energy drinks, why would I want to go to jersey to watch the abu dhabi yankees?

If the stadium is in the city, and next to a subway stop, then I would go.
I'm still debating whether to take season tickets, first because I am disgusted by the incessant links to Manchester City, and second because they picked Yankees stadium for the next three years (at least). The problem is, there is no alternative in the city.

I've already been at a football match at YS, it sucks. Baseball fans don't want their pitch ruined by footballers, and football fans don't want to sit a mile away from the action.

But I do think that building a SSS right next door would probably be the best location available.

BTW, NYCFC had so much potential, it really feels like they are doing everything possible to f**k it up. They will need to crank up the hype machine this year, because at the moment, nobody even knows about them.


----------



## Lumbergo

it's too bad they can't push the field closer to the grandstand. as is, the best seats at Yankee stadium are gonna be behind the goals (which appear to be _really close_, so you'll be on top of the action there.) some of the outfield seats along the sideline look decent as well. didn't metlife have a lot of obstructed views when it came to soccer (corners especially) or am I thinking of a different stadium? I seem to remember a lot of complaining over that because it wasn't an issue at the old Giants Stadium.


----------



## The Game Is Up

NYC FC Details How It Will Co-Exist With Yankees; Pernetti Talks Tickets, Marketing

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2014/04/22/Facilities/NYC-FC.aspx


----------



## Guest

15-20,000 expected at Hughes stadium for Sacramento Republic's opener in USL Pro (3rd tier)


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## tinyslam

Wow that's cool. I like that solution better than just tarpping over the upper tier's seats.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Here's an excellent article from Brian Straus on SI.com, concerning the myth that MLS expansion should necessitate grass-laden SSS in urban areas with (perceived) established soccer cultures.

_



It turns out that it’s pretty easy to find problems, or potential problems, in every market if you look. Selling soccer in the U.S. and Canada hasn’t been easy. It requires trial, error, patience, and compromise. Every league has stronger and weaker markets and every city is different. Some MLS clubs that have been around since year one are still trying to find their way.

If MLS has made a mistake in its push toward a continental footprint, it was in laying out specific criteria that expansion hopefuls had to meet. A downtown stadium isn’t realistic in every city. Nor, as K.C. has proven so far, is it required. A demonstrated interest in the sport isn’t compulsory either – just look at Salt Lake. In repeatedly publicizing their expansion wish list, MLS executives glossed over the unique issues facing each potential market and spoke as if each city was the same. They’re not. Some, like New York, are chased. Others, like Orlando, do the chasing. The barrier for entry isn’t and shouldn’t be static.

...

To become one of the best soccer leagues in the world by 2022 — MLS’ stated goal — it must take a significant leap in revenue. The only pathway to that promised land is through TV, and for that, the league needs big-time rights fees. To get there, it needs a bigger national footprint and it needs to be in big markets.

Click to expand...

_


----------



## will101

The league should just focus on being profitable and successful, and not worry about tenuous concepts like being one of the best in the world. They're not competing with EPL, Serie A and Bundesliga. They're competing with MLB, NASCAR, IndyCar and picnics by the lake.


----------



## Ladiesman020

Soccer and the stadiums in general soo much better than in 94 that I think the U.S could bid and host another World Cup soon and it would be even better than 94. I'd be excited to see


----------



## Lumbergo

If the USA ever bids on the World Cup again - nfl and maybe some college stadiums would have to be used. MLS stadiums are just too small to host though they would make for good practice stadiums for visiting teams. But who knows - maybe in the next couple decades some MLS stadiums will undergo massive expansion or construct new stadiums all together.


----------



## ReNaHtEiM

FIFA, just withdraw it from Qatar and give it to the US.
----> And everybody is happy.


----------



## tinyslam

ReNaHtEiM said:


> FIFA, just withdraw it from Qatar and give it to the US.
> ----> And everybody is happy.


Except for the Qataris


----------



## Guest

Atlanta Silverbacks Park, April 20, 2014, from Sascorpions.com


----------



## Guest

Al Lang stadium (Tampa), courtesy of Edmonton Journal, and Veeoz


----------



## Guest

Indy Eleven, courtesy of Indy Eleven Facebook


----------



## Guest

Orlando City at the temporary ESPN Wide World of Sports stadium, as they wait for the Citrus Bowl and their new stadium. I love this stadium, I wish I could play here


----------



## Guest

FC Edmonton, courtesy of the club


----------



## Guest

Sporting Park, April 19


----------



## Guest

Rio Tinto, 19 April

































Soccer for Dummies, aka Porter Ball...zing!


----------



## Guest

Toyota Field, Dallas vs Toronto, 19 April


----------



## Guest

BC Place, Vancouver LA, April 19


----------



## Guest

Red Bull Arena, April 23


----------



## ReNaHtEiM

tinyslam said:


> Except for the Qataris



Who cares about the Qataris?


----------



## will101

tinyslam said:


> Except for the Qataris


And all of the members of FIFA that they paid so many millions to in bribe money.


----------



## tinyslam

ReNaHtEiM said:


> Who cares about the Qataris?


^^See above


----------



## Ladiesman020

Lumbergo said:


> If the USA ever bids on the World Cup again - nfl and maybe some college stadiums would have to be used. MLS stadiums are just too small to host though they would make for good practice stadiums for visiting teams. But who knows - maybe in the next couple decades some MLS stadiums will undergo massive expansion or construct new stadiums all together.


I doo think the U.S is better prepared and with better stadia than japan/Korea, South Africa, Brazil, Russia & Qatar.
I'd also like to see them (U.S) host a rugby World Cup


----------



## Guest

^Have a better chance of hosting the rugby wc than fifa wc in the next 20 years. But we're hosting a world cup in 2016 - the world cup of america. Gonna be rockin'


----------



## aaronniuk

5portsF4n said:


> Red Bull Arena, April 23


Actually went to this game. Got my ticket for $14 from Stub hub.

The stadium is really easy to get to from Manhattan. Only 20 minutes on the PATH from WTC. 

And the stadium area has real potential. 2 Giant warehouses which I believe the red bulls own could be turned into an indoor academy centre something like the Tate Modern in London.

Disappointed by the Crowd. At a guess 7000.

The stadium is FUNCTIONAL. A sort of baseball stadium feel to it with the main concourse on the middle level and the upper tier felt like a temporary structure. A pretty cheap but functional design. Great view!


----------



## Guest

aaronniuk said:


> Actually went to this game. Got my ticket for $14 from Stub hub.
> 
> The stadium is really easy to get to from Manhattan. Only 20 minutes on the PATH from WTC.
> 
> And the stadium area has real potential. 2 Giant warehouses which I believe the red bulls own could be turned into an indoor academy centre something like the Tate Modern in London.
> 
> *Disappointed by the Crowd. At a guess 7000.*
> 
> The stadium is FUNCTIONAL. A sort of baseball stadium feel to it with the main concourse on the middle level and the upper tier felt like a temporary structure. A pretty cheap but functional design. Great view!


13,278. Obviously they need to better, but they're not at Chivas level yet.


----------



## aaronniuk

No Chance. MLS attendance I believe is based on Ticket sales, Not bums on seats. There was never 13k at that game.


----------



## rafagoiasec

5portsF4n said:


> ^Have a better chance of hosting the rugby wc than fifa wc in the next 20 years. But we're hosting a world cup in 2016 - the world cup of america. Gonna be rockin'


And i hope also see USA's teams in Copa Libertadores soon. It would be amazing !


----------



## RFSK

rafagoiasec said:


> And i hope also see USA's teams in Copa Libertadores soon. It would be amazing !


Try to win the new version of concaf CL first


----------



## rafagoiasec

RFSK said:


> Try to win the new version of concaf CL first


Of course. But i believe MLS's quality will improve a lot and they will can win CCL and make better then most of mexican teams in Copa Libertadores.
Would be pretty great if Libertadores has mexican and american strong teams playing the Cup and making hard for brazilians and argentinians.


----------



## master_klon

edit


----------



## will101

Recent views of the new Earthquakes stadium.
Team President Dave Kaval tweeted this today:










And here is the latest webcam shot:


----------



## master_klon

Nice webcam shot. Beat you to the first photo by less than a minute though


----------



## IllumL8ker

Bori427 said:


> Why do you think that's a good ratio?
> 
> You do know there's over 20 bigger markets in the US without an MLS team right?


It would be better if the game grew in canada. And with our 2026 World Cup bid. We will have numerous new stadiums here. But #4 will go to Ottawa or Edmonton. Calgary & Halifax would get a new ones too on top of the already new ones in Hamilton, Regina & Winnipeg. Quebec City anyone?


----------



## IllumL8ker

slipperydog said:


> Official announcement today. Expected layout for NYC FC games


They aren't actually thinking about this are they?


----------



## Guest

CONCACAF president Jeffrey Webb says Gold Cup could be on the move outside United States

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...-says-gold-cup-could-be-move-outside-united-s



> Could the CONCACAF Gold Cup be headed off of US soil?
> 
> It certainly appears that way after comments made by Jeffrey Webb on Friday in Mexico, where the CONCACAF president told media that he’s interested in spreading the biennial tournament around the region.
> 
> The United States has played at least a co-host role for every edition of the tournament since its inception in 1991, including serving as the outright host each of the past five tournaments. The US and Mexico co-hosted the games 2003 and 1993.
> 
> “I don’t think the Gold Cup should always be in one country,” Webb said. “It’s the best tournament in the area and all members should be able to hold that prize. The decision to have it in the United States has been solely for financial reasons.”
> 
> READ: Webb says he backs aggressive expansion plans for MLS
> The US won the tournament last summer with a win over Panama in the final at Solider Field in Chicago, snapping a run of two straight titles won by Mexico in 2011 and 2009, played in Los Angeles and New Jersey, respectively.
> 
> Mexico won the tournament both times it served as co-host, with both the 1993 and 2003 title games played at Estadio Azteca in Mexico City.


----------



## slipperydog

What does Phoenix have to do with Atlanta? If they are going for a bird, they should just be Thrashers FC.


----------



## vitaming

It's on the official city seal, referring to the city being burned to the ground during the civil war then rising from the ashes.


----------



## Bori427

Dumb calling the Atlanta team Phoenix...


----------



## RFSK

Atlanta Thrashers hmm sounds ok. Eagles maybe..


----------



## GunnerJacket

vitaming said:


> It's on the official city seal, referring to the city being burned to the ground during the civil war then rising from the ashes.


This. Atlanta adopted the motto "_Resurgens_" as a rallying cry after the Civil War, and if you Google _Seal of Atlanta _you variations of this:









There's also a famous statue in downtown called Atlanta from the Ashes, depicting a woman being raised from the flames by a Phoenix (courtesy wikipedia):










Bori427 said:


> Dumb calling the Atlanta team Phoenix...


Only because another city is named after the same creature. Otherwise you'll note several other college and high school teams already use the moniker.

If chosen then at least there's relevance, isn't a Eurosnob-type name or yet another Tigers, Jets, etc.


RFSK said:


> Atlanta Thrashers hmm sounds ok. Eagles maybe..


Thrashers name is still being held optional for a future NHL franchise, believe it or not. At least, the league offered that little bone when the hockey team was moved.


----------



## carnifex2005

I still say they should use the name Firebirds.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Concacaf stays with Traffic Sports

http://www.socceramerica.com/article/57727/concacaf-stays-with-traffic-sports.html


----------



## The Real Gazmon

Atlanta Phoenix? Whilst I understand the connection, surely it's confusing from a marketing point of view - especially if/when a Phoenix team come in?

Atlanta Thrashers would never work anyway (at least I could reuse some of my old merchandise).

What's wrong with Atlanta Resurgens? It's odd, but it at least has good history and is unique.

The other option is the use the Georgia name...

No... I've got it... Georgia Peach FC!


----------



## will101

delete


----------



## Guest

That is just a poll run by a publication. For all we know, Blank already has a name, and their "fan engagement" will be the equivalent of NYC badge lip service.


----------



## Archbishop

Georgia Peaches is still the perfect name for them.


----------



## willygtoc

carnifex2005 said:


> I still say they should use the name Firebirds.



I like it. The name remembers the phoenix bird from the seal without confusing people with the city of Phoenix.


----------



## MarkJF

Archbishop said:


> Georgia Peaches is still the perfect name for them.




I like Pheonix, it's a good name, here it would mean a team that had gone bust and then been resurrected, a "pheonix" club. I agree TRG it's a silly name for future marketing and will cause major confusion outside of the USA.


----------



## tinyslam

I think they will go with a bird name for sure. but what do I know :dunno:


----------



## GunnerJacket

carnifex2005 said:


> I still say they should use the name Firebirds.


The local fear is everyone will view _Firebirds_ as either a cheesy arena-football type name or simply think of the old Pontiac Trans Am.

I still think Legion or Locomotive will come to the fore.


----------



## will101

GunnerJacket said:


> The local fear is everyone will view _Firebirds_ as either a cheesy arena-football type name or simply think of the old Pontiac Trans Am.


As opposed to a cheesy European-style name like Real Salt Lake or D.C. United?

This all reminds me of how the late Douglas Adams felt about marketing people. There have got to be some unused and clever names out there.


----------



## will101

Here's hoping that I don't step on master klon's toes _again_. hno:










This is another tweet from Quakes' prez Dave Kaval. Taken on March 30th, facing northwest with Newhall Street in the foreground, Coleman Avenue on the upper right and with the training field of the Quakes on the upper left.


----------



## GunnerJacket

will101 said:


> As opposed to a cheesy European-style name like Real Salt Lake or D.C. United?


I wouldn't mind it, I'm just sharing the local buzz. Many fans here are touchy and/or image conscious because of all the ATL bashing.



> There have got to be some unused and clever names out there


Need the sports mascot equivalent of a book on baby names, complete with origins, other uses, etc. 

Arthur Blank: _"Oh, here's one: Kestrels! It's a small hawk, and they have those in Georgia."_
Fans: _"I dunno."_
Arthur: _"Fine, you look through the book! I've at least tried!"_


----------



## will101

GunnerJacket said:


> Need the sports mascot equivalent of a book on baby names, complete with origins, other uses, etc.
> 
> Arthur Blank: _"Oh, here's one: Kestrels! It's a small hawk, and they have those in Georgia."_
> Fans: _"I dunno."_
> Arthur: _"Fine, you look through the book! I've at least tried!"_


The book and "Kestrels" are both good ideas.


----------



## Topher51

How about a Euro-style name that no one else has used yet: Atlanta Olympiacos?

Just kidding. I do, however, hope they don't go with another bird name.


----------



## Archbishop

Olympians might be a good name if the 96 Olympics weren't remembered for an ugly stadium, a terrorist attack, and for being a huge Coca-Cola ad.


----------



## slipperydog

An announcement for a USL Pro franchise in St Louis will be made tomorrow, looks to be a Chicago Fire affiliate.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Archbishop said:


> Olympians might be a good name if the 96 Olympics weren't remembered for an ugly stadium, a terrorist attack, and for being a huge Coca-Cola ad.


Ugly? Certainly unorthodox because of the shape but the overall architecture was pretty solid, i thought. 

Funny about the Coke comments, though. Their advertising on site was subdued because the IOC manages premier sponsors evenly and their brand is so established locally that they don't do much else around town. But I get your point because all those sponsors are what made the event a rare Olympic profit maker for the host city.


----------



## Anubis2051

GunnerJacket said:


> Ugly? Certainly unorthodox because of the shape but the overall architecture was pretty solid, i thought.
> 
> Funny about the Coke comments, though. Their advertising on site was subdued because the IOC manages premier sponsors evenly and their brand is so established locally that they don't do much else around town. But I get your point because all those sponsors are what made the event a rare Olympic profit maker for the host city.


Well also the fact that the stadium actually had a planned use afterwards


----------



## master_klon

Nice, to give some perspective of the progress this aerial was taken 6 months ago (or 5 months before the image above):










Any ideas as to when the team will move into the new locker rooms?


----------



## flashman

DH likes Firebirds.


----------



## The Game Is Up

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/spor...ls-stadium-dolphins-heat-marlins-chatter.html



> WEDNESDAY BUZZ COLUMN
> 
> Even with Sun Life Stadium upgrades appearing more likely than a year ago, the University of Miami remains very interested in sharing a stadium with David Beckham’s MLS team if Beckham’s group determines it’s feasible.
> 
> An MLS source said a joint UM/MLS facility remains a “real possibility” that interests Beckham, and Beckham’s people are still studying financial and traffic issues before coming back to UM with details and a definitive answer.
> 
> Problem is, a high-ranking Sun Life Stadium official who’s directly involved said Dolphins and stadium owner Stephen Ross is opposed to allowing UM to escape the final 18 years of its lease to move to an MLS facility. UM hasn’t asked yet, because it’s premature.
> 
> Since everything is negotiable, I believe a UM/Sun Life settlement is possible if MLS deems the project do-able, even though Ross has told people he’s adamantly opposed to letting UM bolt its lease.
> 
> If the stadium is built at PortMiami (Beckham’s preferred site), traffic would be a concern for UM games because some cruises leave on Saturday afternoons. UM also wants to make sure there’s adequate parking. Beckham’s group is trying to formulate solutions on both issues.
> 
> UM isn’t unhappy at Sun Life. But several high-ranking UM officials love the MLS stadium idea because of the appeal of a smaller venue (with 40,000 seats) with better atmosphere and sight lines and closer to campus, according to one of those officials. UM also would consider an MLS stadium near Marlins Park, an option Beckham’s group has considered.
> 
> UM has publicly confirmed its interest in potentially sharing a stadium with Beckham's team and is awaiting word from MLS on the feasibility.
> 
> Ross declined to comment when asked if he would allow UM to escape its lease. But a source close to him said he would have no incentive to do so.
> 
> What if UM offered a lot of money? “They don’t have a lot of money to offer,” the Sun Life source said.
> 
> That’s not necessarily so, UM people tell us. A person involved in the negotiation of UM’s Sun Life lease said a negotiated settlement is do-able and UM could come up with a sizable amount, especially if Beckham charges UM much less than Sun Life does. UM pays Sun Life between $4 million and $5 million per year from a split of ticket and suite revenue, parking and concessions and a maintenance fee.
> 
> If UM wanted to leave with 15 years left on its lease, that would project to about $67 million. But a buyout would be somewhat less factoring in net present value, a UM source said.
> 
> UM president Donna Shalala, who is intrigued by the MLS idea, ultimately would decide if the benefit of the move would offset the buyout cost --- something that cannot be known until Beckham’s group gives the go-ahead and tells UM what it would be expected to provide financially.
> 
> Ross has expressed skepticism about MLS’ chances of getting a stadium, especially at PortMiami. “I don’t believe the University of Miami would try to leave because it’s not in their best interests,” Ross said.
> 
> If MLS deems the UM idea feasible but Ross balks, this would get fascinating. Would Shalala appeal to Ross publicly or privately, saying he could be viewed as a hero by UM fans if he allows the Canes to leave but would be disdained if he doesn’t? It would be interesting to see if such an approach, and a hefty payout, could persuade Ross to change his mind.


----------



## fidalgo

*BBVA Compass Stadium - Houston*



> http://www.archdaily.com/427206/bbva-compass-stadium-populous/


----------



## Topher51

Archbishop said:


> Olympians might be a good name if the 96 Olympics weren't remembered for an ugly stadium, a terrorist attack, and for being a huge Coca-Cola ad.


I grew up an hour north of Atlanta and went to three days of the games. Maybe I remember them more fondly than most, but what I remember is Muhommed Ali lighting the cauldren, Michael Johnson winning gold in the 200 and 400 meters, Carl Lewis winning his 4th straight gold in the long jump, Dream Team II winning basketball gold, the US women winning soccer gold, and Kerri Strug sticking the vault on a busted ankle to win the all around women's gymnastics gold. 

I was joking before, but now that I think about it, Olympians should certainly be a finalist.


----------



## WesTexas

fidalgo said:


> *BBVA Compass Stadium - Houston*


Best stadium in the MLS


----------



## will101

WesTexas said:


> Best stadium in the MLS


Speaking from a purely objective standpoint, of course. :|

In all seriousness, this is one of the few venues in the US that really should have more of a roof.


----------



## will101

The Game Is Up said:


> http://miamiherald.typepad.com/spor...ls-stadium-dolphins-heat-marlins-chatter.html


The problem here is if the Hurricanes make some sort of return to their glory days, then suddenly they will need a lot more than the 20-25,000 seats that Spiceworld would provide.


----------



## Kerrybai

^ Possibly the best looking stadium in the MLS, in fact oneof the bestlooking 20k seaters in the world, however it could surely do with a roof covering all the seats. Maybe they will consider it at some stage.


----------



## will101

Latest Quakes construction pix from Dave Kaval's twitter:

Installing new speakers










Working on the expansion joints, to keep the structure safer in an actual quake


----------



## carnifex2005

Orlando City owner announces via facebook that new stadium will have 25,000 seats rather than the originally planned 18,000 thanks to improved funding from the state of Florida.


----------



## Guest

^You have got to be kidding me? I don't know if this news is to be cheered or jeered. We've gone from having a stadium that would have had a terrific atmosphere with 18,000 seats, to the equal largest SSS in the country. I would love to be proven wrong, but I'm not sure they can sell that on a regular basis. Can they?

Edit: Is it 100% sure that the 25k is not just potential capacity?


----------



## carnifex2005

Not sure if it is potential or right off the bat, but the stadium could easily be like Sporting Park where the initial capacity is 18-19k but can be built to be expandable to 25k.


----------



## GunnerJacket

carnifex2005 said:


> Not sure if it is potential or right off the bat, but the stadium could easily be like Sporting Park where the initial capacity is 18-19k but can be built to be expandable to 25k.


Certainly the route I'd prescribe. At the least I'd see if the construction could be made flexible enough to wait on pulling that trigger til after seeing some results next season.


----------



## MarkJF

OT a bit.................I read the MLS results and reports on UK sites, the detail is poor and often the attendances are missing. I would appreciate a link to a more informative match report site please.


----------



## RMB2007

> *Republic FC considers expansion of Cal Expo plans
> 
> Sacramento’s new pro-soccer franchise is considering enlarging its planned home field at Cal Expo in response to fan support.
> *
> Saturday night’s match at Hughes Stadium attracted 17,400 people.
> 
> The team’s first home match last weekend was a sell-out with 20,200 tickets sold.
> 
> The new Bonny Field was planned to seat 8,000 fans when it opens in June. That could leave thousands of new Republic FC fans shut out.
> 
> Team founder and president Warren Smith told KCRA 3 News that the team is considering expanding seating at Cal Expo.
> 
> “We do have the ability to do that and Cal Expo would be open to it,” said Smith. “In fact, we are meeting on Monday about, what do we do now?”
> 
> Smith said the seating design could possible expanded by 50 percent, adding 4,000 seats.
> 
> He said that idea will be discussed.
> 
> “We’ll do what we can to meet the need and not overbuild,” Smith said. “But we’ll do what we can to expand that facility.”
> 
> At its first home game, the team’s sell-out crowd was the largest regular season turnout in the history of the United Soccer Leagues.
> 
> After attracting nearly 40,000 people at two home games, team officials said there were gratified and excited.
> 
> Many fans said they were not surprised.
> 
> “Sacramento is a great soccer town,” said Jamie Wilson.
> 
> Even though welcoming, Hughes Stadium at Sacramento City College is built for football and track. The new Bonney Field will put fans much closer to the action.
> 
> But the field’s planned limited seating is a concern for many.
> 
> “Hopefully they expand and then an MLS (Major League Soccer) team comes here,” said soccer fan Roger Brock. “Let’s get ready for it.”


http://www.kcra.com/news/republic-fc-considers-expansion-of-cal-expo-plans/25801060


----------



## will101

MarkJF said:


> OT a bit.................I read the MLS results and reports on UK sites, the detail is poor and often the attendances are missing. I would appreciate a link to a more informative match report site please.


Try this:

http://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matches/2014-04-28


----------



## Guest

RMB2007 said:


> http://www.kcra.com/news/republic-fc-considers-expansion-of-cal-expo-plans/25801060


If the plan is to get into MLS with a downtown stadium, they may aswell just stick with the 8k capacity and sell it out more often than not. I guess it doesn't matter one way or another, but it doesn't seem like it will make any difference in their bid for MLS.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Beckham's Miami stadium plan hits stormy waters
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...n-hits-stormy-waters/articleshow/34648824.cms

Not stadium-related but you know a corner has been turned in this country when you read stories like this: http://awfulannouncing.com/2014/mik...g-pre-empted-by-much-more-popular-things.html


----------



## will101

The Game Is Up said:


> Beckham's Miami stadium plan hits stormy waters
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/.../showpost.php?p=113238497&postcount=9950]here about three weeks ago.


----------



## Guest

The Game Is Up said:


> Beckham's Miami stadium plan hits stormy waters
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...n-hits-stormy-waters/articleshow/34648824.cms
> 
> Not stadium-related but you know a corner has been turned in this country when you read stories like this: http://awfulannouncing.com/2014/mik...g-pre-empted-by-much-more-popular-things.html


As a Jets fan, Francesa can suck it. What that article also doesnt mention is that Fox Deportes got another 500-600k, so it was more like 1.2 million.


----------



## MarkJF

will101 said:


> Try this:
> 
> http://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matches/2014-04-28


Thanks Will, appreciated.


----------



## GunnerJacket

The Game Is Up said:


> Not stadium-related but you know a corner has been turned in this country when you read stories like this: http://awfulannouncing.com/2014/mik...g-pre-empted-by-much-more-popular-things.html


As someone who does listen to some 3+ hours of sportstalk each week even I find the attempts to put characters like this on TV simply poor. Radio hosts thinking their TV shows are anything but airtime filler is delusional.


----------



## slipperydog

Soccer hotbed in Sacramento? Or the Kings suck and there is nothing else to do in a town in the middle-of-nowhere?


----------



## Guest

slipperydog said:


> Soccer hotbed in Sacramento? Or the Kings suck and there is nothing else to do in a town in the middle-of-nowhere?


What a pointless thing to say. Two 15k+ attendances for D3 is all down to the Kings, no question.


----------



## will101

slipperydog said:


> Soccer hotbed in Sacramento? Or the Kings suck and there is nothing else to do in a town in the middle-of-nowhere?


Pretty much. The Niners and Raiders have a lot of season ticket holders up there, and the Giants and A's sell a fair amount of weekend packages to people in the valley. And for a long time the Kings played at 100% of capacity, win or lose, until the Maloofs decided to alienate everyone in sight.


----------



## Guest

^I'd love to know the cross over of people at Republic and Kings games. I bet its something approaching 0.0%.


----------



## Guest

Not stadium related, but really great to see. From BS: 



> soundermiki said: ↑
> Monster local ratings for the Sounders/Union game:
> 
> Aaron Levine ‏@AaronQ13Fox 18m
> Congrats @SoundersFC for highest ratings ever in Sea-Tac Market for main demo of 25-54 yr old viewers: 4.4 on Sat night on @Q13FOX! #q13fox
> 
> Aaron Levine ‏@AaronQ13Fox 6m
> To compare Saturday's ratings in P25-54 viewership in Sea-Tac DMA: Sounders FC/Union 4.4; Kentucky Derby 3.9, Mariners/Astros 1.8


----------



## carnifex2005

What the hell happened to my Sacremento post? Anyways, more news on As The Golden Balls Turns...

*Miami-Dade mayor asks David Beckham’s group to consider new soccer stadium site
*

_Miami-Dade County Mayor Carlos Gimenez upended the negotiations with David Beckham and his investors Monday by proposing that the group consider building a Major League Soccer stadium on the downtown waterfront — but not at PortMiami.

As an alternative, Gimenez proposed filling a massive boat slip between Museum Park and AmericanAirlines Arena, which, according to the mayor, would create enough new land for a stadium as well as a pedestrian walkway along Biscayne Bay.

“Downtown Miami will greatly benefit from the creation of a grand waterfront park that will serve to bring our urban core closer to the water, providing a magnificent bay front walk along Biscayne Bay,” Gimenez wrote in a letter late Monday to Beckham’s real-estate adviser.

The mayor’s request could significantly shift the soccer debate, which up until now has centered almost exclusively on the port’s southwest corner. That waterfront site has drawn strong opposition from some county commissioners and port interests, led by Royal Caribbean Cruises, which is headquartered next door.

PortMiami is still in play for a possible 25,000-seat, open-air stadium, Gimenez told the Miami Herald. So are other potential sites, including adjacent to the Miami Marlins’ ballpark in Little Havana.

But by formally requesting that Beckham’s group look into filling the slip and report back to the county in two weeks, the mayor is steering negotiations toward an option that had only briefly been discussed nearly six months ago.

“I’ve always said everybody needs to take a deep breath,” Gimenez said. “We’re still working through this.”

In a statement, Miami Beckham United said it will examine the feasibility of filling the slip and building a stadium, which the group has pledged to pay for using private funds. The group won approval in Tallahassee last week to apply for a state subsidy.

“Our goal from the outset has been to create a great fan experience, to provide an economic asset that creates jobs, and design a stadium that communicates the energy of Miami to the entire world,” the group said. “The Port is a strong site; however, a stadium next to AmericanAirlines Arena is an exciting possibility.”_

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/05/...-mayor-asks-david-beckhams.html#storylink=cpy

Most Miami fans are saying this is a better location than the Port of Miami spot.


----------



## Guest

Just to add to your post, here is a picture from that article. How expensive must filling that up be though?


----------



## bd popeye

Since attendance has to do with stadiums...MLS attendance for the 2014 season. As of May 4th;


----------



## krudmonk

slipperydog said:


> Soccer hotbed in Sacramento? Or the Kings suck and there is nothing else to do in a town in the middle-of-nowhere?


Nothing else to do _sports-wise_? Certainly not in general.

And every metro in California punches above its weight nationally in producing soccer players.


----------



## Guest

http://www.theguardian.com/football...take-new-twist-with-miami-dade-mayor-proposal



> David Beckham’s plan to bring a 25,000-seat stadium to the Port of Miami as the home for his new Major League Soccer franchise looks to be heading in a different direction with a key ally in the project effectively telling the former England captain to look elsewhere.
> 
> The proposal to build the stadium on vacant land in the southwest corner of the giant port has run into choppy waters in recent weeks with a vocal alliance including cruise ship operators Royal Caribbean, maritime workers and a number of prominent Miami politicians expressing their opposition publicly.
> 
> Now Miami-Dade Mayor Carlos Gimenez, who stood alongside Beckham and MLS commissioner Don Gerber in February as the retired star made his long expected formal announcement that he was exercising his right to buy a start-up MLS franchise, has joined those keen to steer him away from the previously preferred seaport site.
> 
> In a letter to Beckham’s New York-based real estate adviser John Alschuler, Gimenez urges the investment partnership known as Miami Beckham United to consider building instead on another downtown waterfront parcel a little further north.
> 
> “I am asking you to undertake a thorough analysis of the area located immediately north of the American Airlines Arena and immediately south of Museum Park, including the area known as the FEC slip,” he wrote.
> 
> The mayor said he envisions: “the creation of a grand waterfront park” close to the Adrienne Arsht Performing Arts Center with an “unparalleled experience of sports, recreation, arts and culture.” The site, Gimenez said, would give Beckham’s group the nine-acre stadium “footprint” it was seeking while converting underutilised land into vibrant and scenic public space.
> 
> *What the letter acknowledges only briefly is that the “FEC slip”, a disused deepwater slipway once owned by the Florida East Coast Railway, and which has long featured in discussions over the revitalisation of Miami’s waterfront areas, would have to be drained and filled at great expense, up to $16 million by some estimates.*
> 
> The Miami Marlins considered and rejected the site during its own search for a new baseball stadium several years ago, according to the Miami Herald, in part because of the cost of transporting large rocks from elsewhere as landfill.
> 
> *Another complication is that the site, known as Parcel B, is owned by the City of Miami and would have to be sold or gifted to the county prior to any development. In 2011, the city, having just spent more than $15 million on a seawall remediation project, drafted an unequivocal resolution stating that it “strongly opposes any actions or discussions by Miami-Dade County related to the filling of FEC deep water slip.”*
> 
> *Additionally, any proposal involving city-owned waterfront land is required to face a public vote.*
> 
> Alschuler told The Guardian on Tuesday that he welcomed the mayor’s letter as an “expansion of alternatives” for the location of the stadium, which also included the less favoured inland sites at Florida International University and next to Marlins Park in Little Havana.
> 
> “It’s a meaningful step forward,” he said. “Instead of having one good option we now have two. Both sites are of substantial interest. We’re confident we will find a site that works for the team and for the fans and which will be an economic asset to one of the world’s great cities.”
> 
> Alschuler said it would be premature to discuss the merits or otherwise of the proposed new site until it was studied in detail. “The mayor has asked us to undertake an analysis and we will proceed to do that,” he said. “There are three possible conclusions, yes it works, no it doesn’t work, or we need more time.”
> 
> Beckham, whose co-investors are Bolivian telecoms billionaire Marcelo Claure and entertainment impresario Simon Fuller, has said he hoped his as yet unnamed franchise would be ready to take the field in two to three seasons’ time, though acknowledged at his February press conference that there would be “bumps in the road”.
> 
> He scored a significant victory in the Florida legislature last week when lawmakers approved a measure to allow professional sports franchises in the state to compete for sales tax subsidies to help with construction projects. Beckham, who has always insisted that he was not seeking public money from the city or county, could see his stadium plan benefit by up to $3 million.
> 
> Meanwhile, the Miami Seaport Alliance, which has claimed that a stadium development at the port would threaten jobs and adversely affect the contribution to Miami’s economy from cruise and cargo operations, also welcomed Gimenez’s vision.
> 
> “Whatever site the community wants to do is lovely and wonderful, and we leave it to our elected officials to decide,” John Fox, a Royal Caribbean lobbyist and the group’s president, told the Miami Herald.
> 
> “Our position has always been that we’re not in favour of getting this done at the seaport.”


----------



## The Game Is Up

More articles about Beckham and Miami

http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/05/07/4103903/david-beckham-says-boat-slip-would.html
http://worldsoccertalk.com/2014/05/...nally-found-a-site-for-his-miami-mls-stadium/
http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/05/08/4105240/david-beckham-to-sit-down-with.html


----------



## Guest

$20.5m soccer complex set for North Winnipeg



> Soccer players in Winnipeg are getting a brand-new, FIFA-certified soccer pitch in the city's Garden City area.
> 
> ​The $20.5-million expansion of the Garden City Community Centre will include a 120,000-square-foot indoor field that can be split into four smaller fields, as well as a fully-lit outdoor synthetic turf field.
> 
> Soccer complex
> An artist's rendering of the new indoor soccer complex, set for construction at the Garden City Community Centre. (Government of Manitoba)
> 
> Construction begins this fall with the facility completed for 2015 indoor soccer season.
> 
> The province is paying $8.15 million and the city contributing $7 million, with the Winnipeg Soccer Federation kicking in $5.4 million.
> 
> The new indoor facility will complement an existing indoor soccer facility at the Garden City Community Centre as well as two new indoor ice rinks currently under construction there.
> 
> It was also announced Wednesday that the new outdoor field will be used as one of the training fields for the FIFA Women's World Cup Canada 2015. Winnipeg is one of the six host cities for 2015 World Cup.
> 
> "The popularity of soccer is continuing to grow steadily in Winnipeg, and with this investment we continue to meet the demand of our citizens and provide year-round access to recreational facilities across the city that citizens of all ages can enjoy," Mayor Sam Katz stated in a news release.
> 
> Soccer facility
> Desiree Scott, Winnipeg's own member of the Canadian women's national soccer team, attends Wednesday's announcement at the Garden City Community Centre with MLA Kevin Chief, Manitoba's minister of children and youth. (Sean Kavanagh/CBC)
> 
> "Manitoba has one of the longest soccer traditions in North America with records of games played as far back as the 1880s [and]
> it's a high-energy game that is exploding in our city," added MLA Kevin Chief, Manitoba's minister of children and youth.
> 
> "Building new soccer facilities has put Winnipeg at the forefront of Canada's host cities for the FIFA Women's World Cup Canada 2015. That means that for many years to come Winnipeg will attract more world-class events like the Women's International Soccer friendly [on Thursday]."
> 
> The Canadian women's national soccer team is playing an exhibition game against the United States team at Investors Group Field on Thursday.
> 
> "This exciting partnership is a terrific step in the Winnipeg Soccer Federation's plans to meet its mandate of providing top quality facilities for the growing participation in soccer and other green-field sports," said Peter Muir, chair of the Winnipeg Soccer Federation, said about the new soccer complex.
> 
> "We are very excited that the province and city recognize the benefits of fitness and the self confidence that are built through the beautiful game."


----------



## Guest

Over 28,000 for womens friendly between Canada and USA in Winnipeg


----------



## MarkJF

5portsF4n said:


> Over 28,000 for womens friendly between Canada and USA in Winnipeg


That's impressive, were all the tickets normal paid for? Even for an England v Scotland game I think you'd be lucky to get 5000 in England.


----------



## Guest

MarkJF said:


> That's impressive, were all the tickets normal paid for? Even for an England v Scotland game I think you'd be lucky to get 5000 in England.


Women's soccer is way bigger in NA than England. US and Canada are some of the best teams in the game, and in fact the USWNT is the best.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Well, the national teams are more popular by comparison but the overall affinity for the game may not be "way bigger." All told the pro game in the states is on par with England, if not a bit behind due to the support from the parent FA clubs in England. Attendance for top women's matches there aren't great, but they also do it with more clubs and a smaller population base. OMO, anyway.

Regardless that's great to see from the fans in Winnipeg. Good on ya, Canucks!


----------



## carnifex2005

5portsF4n said:


> Women's soccer is way bigger in NA than England. US and Canada are some of the best teams in the game, and in fact the USWNT is the best.


The fact that in the US the abbreviation USMNT is used instead of USNT for soccer is proof enough of the women's team popularity with the masses there.


----------



## MarkJF

I didn't know this.................it must be another thing lost in translation.

Top level women's football anywhere in the world is several levels below decent amateur UK men's football. I'd watch it, I'll watch any football, but I wouldn't pay anything to watch it. I find the attendance amazing.


----------



## Guest

Again Ill just say womens soccer is much bigger here. Mia Hamm, Hope Solo and Abby Wambach are arguably as well known as Donovan or Dempsey. The league may not be popular, but Portland Thorns last season had a high figure of 16,479 and low of 11,055. 

You just dont have that over there when it comes to the womens game. Remember that for a long time, the USWNT was more popular than the mens.


----------



## flashman

When Robert Beck's iconic image of Brandi Chastain celebrating the US winning the 1999 Women's World Cup with her shirt off made the cover of Sports Illustrated, women's soccer instantly had a cache about it.










Women's sports are far better supported in North America because of the American college athletic programs that provide scholarships on a 50-50 basis with men's programs. Women are encouraged to compete at high levels in a wide range of sports and their achievements are publicized and promoted:










The Canadian and American women have dandy rivalries in both soccer and ice hockey and when they play one another it's very entertaining, not because it's the highest level of technical achievement, but because it's extremely competitive and very emotional.

And to be fair, there's a lot of fit, attractive females out there. What's not to like?


----------



## Scoots71

flashman said:


> When Robert Beck's iconic image of Brandi Chastain celebrating the US winning the 1999 Women's World Cup with her shirt off made the cover of Sports Illustrated, women's soccer instantly had a cache about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Women's sports are far better supported in North America because of the American college athletic programs that provide scholarships on a 50-50 basis with men's programs. Women are encouraged to compete at high levels in a wide range of sports and their achievements are publicized and promoted:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Canadian and American women have dandy rivalries in both soccer and ice hockey and when they play one another it's very entertaining, not because it's the highest level of technical achievement, but because it's extremely competitive and very emotional.
> 
> And to be fair, there's a lot of fit, attractive females out there. What's not to like?


I like this post, not only because a lot of your reasoning and explanation is spot on, but also because you chose to use a Carolina sports team picture as your example! GO GAMECOCKS!


----------



## The Game Is Up

How will the new TV going to affect attendance in the short term? Apparently, they're going to go with a Friday-Sunday scheme for national TV, with Saturdays reserved for local channels. I'm going to assume that the game times will still be varied during those Saturday games but at least some of the confusion will be cleared up. 

I could see the southern cities getting more of the early season games, going north as the season goes on and then back south towards the end.

Now that the TV deal's done, that is one less big excuse for the likes of NER, DCU to not do anything to fix their situations in terms of new venues.


----------



## GunnerJacket

The new deal still only amounts to less than $4M per team per season, on average. Not exactly life changing money at this level.

What MLS is banking on is the solidification of their spot in the sporting landscape, so that more and more casual fans become accustomed to the league, the teams, the culture... Then when the deal is due once more there will be more brand appeal.


----------



## will101

Another tweet of the construction by Quakes' prez Dave Kaval. This one is from the press box level, looking southwest/away from Coleman.










This shot tells me that the structure is taller than you would expect for 18,000 seats, and expanding upwards (thinking 20 or so years down the road) is going to be very difficult. It would be unfortunate if someday the Quakes find themselves wanting more than 24,000 seats on a regular basis.


----------



## will101

Same spot as before, but rotated 180º.










Just beyond the right side of the scoreboard is where the commercial aircraft throttle up from a standing start. This place is going to be loud for all the wrong reasons.


----------



## bd popeye

will101 said:


> This shot tells me that the structure is taller than you would expect for 18,000 seats, and expanding upwards (thinking 20 or so years down the road) is going to be very difficult. It would be unfortunate if someday the Quakes find themselves wanting more than 24,000 seats on a regular basis.


Couldn't the Quakes build at least 2,000-2,500 seat in the open end of the stadium?

MLS attendance for the 2014 season. As of May 11th.


----------



## ReNaHtEiM

slipperydog said:


> http://www.orlandosentinel.com/spor...reveals-new-mls-logo-20140512,0,3781188.story



Awesome!
So much better than the bland NYCFC logo.


----------



## RMB2007

Dr. Mark & Cindy Lynn Soccer Stadium at the University of Louisville. From UofLCardGame.com: 













































http://uoflcardgame.com/new-stadium-creating-national-buzz-about-uofl-soccer/43291/


----------



## Lumbergo

wow, that's a nice field. :cheers:


----------



## will101

bd popeye said:


> Couldn't the Quakes build at least 2,000-2,500 seat in the open end of the stadium?


Oh, yeah. When I typed that, I left implied the longer term plans to close off the open end, which will raise capacity from 18k to 24k. I meant that if they want to go beyond the 24,000 figure they would have difficulties. What I get for using mental shortcuts. Sorry about that.


----------



## willygtoc

Kind of reminds me the Korea-Japan 2002 logo


----------



## alexandru.mircea

RMB2007 said:


>


The place looks haunted. :runaway:


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

alexandru.mircea said:


> The place looks haunted. :runaway:


lol...I see it too. It looks like they either stitched a couple pics together or poorly photoshopped someone out.

Nice little college soccer stadium though.


----------



## carnifex2005

Post I grabbed from Big Soccer poster who is a Montreal Impact fan about plans for their new training facility...

"A Montreal architectural firm has released a portfolio in their site of a practice facility on behalf of "The Saputo group" and the state sports and Leisure commission, though neither group has stated anything publicly as of yet.

http://provencherroy.ca/fr/architecture/sport-loisirs/complex-interieur-saputo.html


For a better idea of how this is oriented, I drew it up on a map:










They are filling up the only surface parking lot left on the Olympic site (also where one of the supporters groups has their pregame tailgating) as well as an empty grass field behind the local ice rink(silver dome).

The green roofed buildings are heavily used multipurpose indoor athletics facility, and the base of the Olympic tower houses a recently renovated Olympic caliber aquatics facility. The grey rectangle near the top is a recently competed FIFA 2 star artificial turf surface.

The proposed facility will contain a full size soccer field, 2 smaller "practice fields" and headquarters of the the sports and leisure department as well as the provincial athletics hall of fame.

The practice facility, the ice rink, the athletics center, Saputo stadium and the 6,000 indoor parking spaces are all connected underground (hugely beneficial in the winter), and the latter also links up with the main stadium/aquatics center, numerous municipal and provincial sports offices as well as the new state of the art planetarium, and Biodome.

I'm really excited about this, since it will greatly intensify what is already one of the largest and most dense amateur sports complexes in the world.

It also makes the parking lots more financially viable and gives the old stadium another reason to exist.

Other renders here:"


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

Earthquakes stadium progress



http://www.sjearthquakes.com/newstadium/webcam%20


----------



## RMB2007

> *Las Vegas could be getting a Major League Soccer franchise.
> 
> Findlay Sports and Entertainment and The Cordish Companies today announced plans to build a 24,000-seat stadium downtown at Symphony Park. The stadium would be designed specifically for a pro soccer team.*
> 
> Cordish has been in a development contract with Las Vegas since 2008 to build a stadium at the 61-acre site and negotiate with professional leagues for a team to play there. The park already includes the Lou Ruvo Brain Institute and the Smith Center for the Performing Arts.
> 
> The agreement between Cordish and Las Vegas expires May 31. During the May 21 City Council meeting, the Cordish and Findlay groups plan to ask for an extension and request a change to the proposal to include both organizations.
> 
> An official from MLS confirmed discussions to bring a franchise to Las Vegas.
> 
> “We recently met with Justin Findlay and Blake Cordish at the MLS League office in New York and were very impressed with their vision to pursue building a new soccer stadium and acquiring an MLS expansion club for Las Vegas,” MLS Deputy Commissioner and President Mark Abbott said in a statement. “We look forward to continuing discussions as they work to further develop their plans with Mayor Goodman and the City of Las Vegas.”
> 
> MLS is expanding from 19 to 24 teams — New York, Miami, Orlando and Atlanta have already received new franchises. Justin Findlay, managing partner of Findlay Sports and Entertainment, said Las Vegas is competing with Austin, Texas; Minneapolis, Sacramento, Calif.; San Antonio and San Diego for the last franchise. Those projects are significantly ahead in the planning stages, Findlay said.
> 
> "It will be a race to see who can put the best package together," Findlay said. “A lot of people are vying for the last spot.”
> 
> Findlay officials said the investment in the stadium and team would be in excess of $300 million and was expected to create more than 1,000 construction and permanent jobs. Funding would be a private-public split but, Findlay said, it's too early to put a number how much the city would be asked to contribute.
> 
> “We are not settled on the details. I can tell you, it's a better (deal) for the public than most cities,” Findlay said.
> 
> Officials from Cordish weren't immediately available for comment.
> 
> Attention had long been focused on bringing a NBA or NHL team to the area, an effort Mayor Carolyn Goodman and her husband, former Mayor Oscar Goodman, have long championed.
> 
> “The pieces are starting to fall in line. It’s really, really exciting,” Carolyn Goodman said.


http://lasvegassun.com/news/2014/may/14/las-vegas-could-get-mls-team-soccer-specific-stadi/


----------



## carnifex2005

Heh. Las Vegas is where stadium projects go to die. I doubt this ever sees the light of day.


----------



## RFSK

I wouldn't be suprised if the stadium does get built here, but dont think that they will that a franchise just yet. 

Dont imagine the stadium to be used much though, except the summer where it could host a lot of friendly matches. 

Does Vegas have a College team?


----------



## JJG

carnifex2005 said:


> Heh. Las Vegas is where stadium projects go to die. I doubt this ever sees the light of day.


I'd be a shame. 

MLS would probably be LV's BEST chance at a major pro sports team.


----------



## Guest

The most interesting tidbit from that is the cities he announced that were in competition, which MLS brass have clearly indicated in their discussions. Minneapolis, Sacramento and San Antonio need no introduction, but what exactly has MLS told them that would suggest Austin or San Diego are further ahead?


----------



## weava

RFSK said:


> I wouldn't be suprised if the stadium does get built here, but dont think that they will that a franchise just yet.
> 
> Dont imagine the stadium to be used much though, except the summer where it could host a lot of friendly matches.
> 
> Does Vegas have a College team?


UNLV. They are known for having a strong basketball program.


----------



## RFSK

Ok i was actually thinking american football, so it could be utilised even if they didn't get an mls team


----------



## ChesterCopperpot

They play at Sam Boyd stadium


----------



## Cjones2451

RMB2007 said:


> http://lasvegassun.com/news/2014/may/14/las-vegas-could-get-mls-team-soccer-specific-stadi/


Looks like a small version of Corinthians Stadium they are building in Sao Paulo, Brazil


----------



## GunnerJacket

Re: Vegas,

Sam Boyd stadium is on the outskirts of the city and I think is too narrow for soccer, but I'd have to imagine renovating this would be cheaper and easier for anyone serious about bringing MLS to town. It's not that old, it's owned by the local convention authority (I believe), and they could simply remove some rows and raise the pitch to accomodate soccer. Not like UNLV is selling out the venue, anyway.


----------



## will101

GunnerJacket said:


> Re: Vegas,
> 
> Sam Boyd stadium is on the outskirts of the city and I think is too narrow for soccer, but I'd have to imagine renovating this would be cheaper and easier for anyone serious about bringing MLS to town. It's not that old, it's owned by the local convention authority (I believe), and they could simply remove some rows and raise the pitch to accomodate soccer. Not like UNLV is selling out the venue, anyway.


They do have a bowl game there, that can sell out if one of the California Pac-12 teams is involved.


----------



## vitaming

Sam Boyd is very narrow, and UNLV want to move closer to campus/expand their facilities in an effort to join a major conference (this proposed site is about the same distance from campus as Sam Boyd, but in the other direction).

A roof is essential for MLS in Vegas, even if most games are night kickoffs. This stadium looks nice but relatively affordable - they'll wait a lifetime for a 40k+ retractable roof stadium with MLS (edit: meant with UNLV). I'd press ahead with this and let UNLV work out their own situation.


----------



## Guest

You're really buying ino this MLS in Vegas thing? Silly distraction from the real candidates.


----------



## slipperydog

Not really about buying into anything. It's not any more likely or unlikely than any of the other candidates, especially if they have a legitimate stadium plan in place.


----------



## Guest

slipperydog said:


> Not really about buying into anything. It's not any more likely or unlikely than any of the other candidates, especially if they have a legitimate stadium plan in place.


No one will be building a stadium before 2020 with no tenants. The 24 are more or less set in stone, making a Vegas MLS team about 5-10 years premature.


----------



## slipperydog

MLS said they are competing for 24.


----------



## Guest

slipperydog said:


> MLS said they are competing for 24.


Everyone is in contention for 24th until its announced. Or did you think theyd come out and announce they didnt care for particular markets?

Theyve made a lot of noise about the midwest in the past few years. Its Minneapolis vs Indianapolis, unless somthing comes out of the blue, and if Minn situation works out its theirs to lose. 

Doesnt matter anyway. No way MLS isa 24 team league by 2025. Sacramento is a dead certainty, and others will follow. But Vegas stadium plans are premature, as they wont have a tenant for at least 6 more years.


----------



## unalmed

tonttula said:


> The arena is in pretty bad shape in general.


Damn! that brings another question, What happened there?


----------



## ielag

GunnerJacket said:


> It's disappointing for both Colorado and Chicago as we all know the communities are capable of much stronger support. Still, at the times those venues were built MLS teams had fewer resources and respect so I don't think we can afford to be too picky.


Yep and most importantly to their lack of success, they have crappy owners (Kroenke and Hauptmann).


----------



## eMKay

My wife bought me tickets to Toronto FC vs DC United for my birthday, she thought she was getting tickets for the VISITORS support section (104), turns out they are in the regular supporters section (127) This should be fun! Or maybe I'll just wander over to 104  I will post pics


----------



## bd popeye

unalmed said:


> Damn! that brings another question, What happened there?


The main tenant the Detroit Lions NFL team moved to a new stadium, Ford Field, in downtown Detroit. It was all downhill after that..

Read the whole sordid tale in this link.

Silverdome abandoned


----------



## willygtoc

The owner could tear down the 2nd floor of the Silverdome, renovate the first floor and put an MLS team but i guess that cost too much money...


----------



## goldy21

ielag said:


> Yep and most importantly to their lack of success, they have crappy owners (Kroenke and Hauptmann).


Preach.


----------



## BoulderGrad

New benches for StubHub Center:

https://twitter.com/acosta19LA/status/469239450707689472


----------



## master_klon

Earthquakes stadium - May 20



















Grading lower supporter section:


----------



## Guest

David Beckham team to reveal soccer stadium design for Miami boat slip site

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/05/22/4131088/david-beckham-team-to-reveal-soccer.html#storylink=cpy



> One of David Beckham's chief investors and their representatives plan to make public Thursday preliminary designs of what a Major League Soccer stadium would look like if it were built on what is now a downtown Miami deep-water boat slip.
> 
> Billionaire Marcelo Claure and Beckham's real-estate adviser are expected to present the images at a noon news conference at the InterContinental Hotel on Biscayne Boulevard, down the street from the proposed stadium site.
> 
> The release of the drawings is intended to give the public an idea of how the structure could look if the water basin nestled between Museum Park and AmericanAirlines Arena were filled.
> 
> Already, proponents have circulated their own amateur designs of a possible stadium to drum up support. More troubling for Beckham's group, opponents have done the same thing, to show a stadium they consider out of place.
> 
> No one expects the drawings to resemble the relatively detailed renderings that Miami Beckham United had put together for the first stadium site the group eyed at PortMiami. Those designs, by renowned Miami firm Arquitectonica, and other analysis of the port location cost about $2 million, Beckham representatives have said.
> 
> On Tuesday, Miami-Dade County commissioners voted to prohibit a stadium at the port — a day after Beckham's group said it was turning its attention to the slip site.
> 
> Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/05/22/4131088/david-beckham-team-to-reveal-soccer.html#storylink=cpy


----------



## GunnerJacket

Uff da. $2M for images for a development on land you don't already own is pretty steep. They can't afford to do that too often. I'm beginning to wish they would simply handle more things behind the scenes until they've announced a land purchase agreement. Would hate for this to evolve into a DC stadium spectacle.


----------



## ChesterCopperpot

eMKay said:


> My wife bought me tickets to Toronto FC vs DC United for my birthday, she thought she was getting tickets for the VISITORS support section (104), turns out they are in the regular supporters section (127) This should be fun! Or maybe I'll just wander over to 104  I will post pics


I used to have season tickets in 127 - it's a designated supporter section - so expect to be standing for the game.


----------



## will101

willygtoc said:


> The owner could tear down the 2nd floor of the Silverdome, renovate the first floor and put an MLS team but i guess that cost too much money...


One would think that it would be cheaper than building from scratch. Although I would increase the slope of the stands for soccer.


----------



## RMB2007

RMB2007 said:


> Dr. Mark & Cindy Lynn Soccer Stadium at the University of Louisville. From UofLCardGame.com:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://uoflcardgame.com/new-stadium-creating-national-buzz-about-uofl-soccer/43291/






























http://t.co/WAU6Rhhgsi


----------



## RMB2007

@EleazarMelendez:





































https://twitter.com/EleazarMelendez


----------



## Guest

Looks pretty awesome. I like it more than Port Miami site. The park land really adds a lot to it. I'm guessing that the rumors of linking up with UM are dead and buried? That doesn't look like a 40k stadium

Now that I look at it a little closer, no roof on either end?!


----------



## Guest

Solid presentation so far. Really pushing the park land/entertainment area angle. Be amazed if there is overwhelming voter opposition to this


----------



## GunnerJacket

Overall very nice, and yes they're playing up the added park space I'm sure to enhance support for the public funding request. My questions are where is the parking and have they planned for expansion capability?


----------



## GunnerJacket

will101 said:


> One would think that it would be cheaper than building from scratch. Although I would increase the slope of the stands for soccer.


Thanks to the collapsed roof the Silverdome has suffered so much neglect and is so outdated utility-wise that starting from scratch would be cheaper for any well meaning proposal. I feel certain that the care that would be needed to simply remove the upper level or to clean up around the bowl would negate any cost savings from keeping the lower structure intact.


----------



## will101

GunnerJacket said:


> Thanks to the collapsed roof the Silverdome has suffered so much neglect and is so outdated utility-wise that starting from scratch would be cheaper for any well meaning proposal. I feel certain that the care that would be needed to simply remove the upper level or to clean up around the bowl would negate any cost savings from keeping the lower structure intact.


My point is it's already on a site that is zoned for a stadium, and has the necessary infrastructure in place. That can save a lot of money, even if you are going to almost completely demolish the existing structure. I was just looking at the lower level as a plot of land that is almost in the preferred shape.


----------



## will101

GunnerJacket said:


> Overall very nice, and yes they're playing up the added park space I'm sure to enhance support for the public funding request. My questions are where is the parking and have they planned for expansion capability?


From the look of things, there is no parking, there is no expansion capability, and Beckham is entirely style over substance. He (and likely his wife) wants a pretty new building on the water, and they will kill to avoid building at a place with ugly parking lots and mass transit. Let the peasants eat cake.


----------



## bd popeye

Lumbergo said:


> ^^^that still would have made for a better view, even for a modest skyline.


I'm sure it may have. 

I'm also sure most 'Quakes fans will be happy to be attending matches in their new stadium no matter the view.

At this moment their present home, Buck Shaw Stadium, is not exactly top tier.





> Buck Shaw Stadium, Santa Clara CA. capacity 11,500


----------



## Guest

ChesterCopperpot posted in the BMO and Canadian stadium threads that BMO expansion is going CFL-less, after owners MLSE got fed up with Ottawa government, and will be remodelled to suit only soccer. Will cost $20m less than originally planned, at $100m. My only question, as I raised in the other thread, is why they are even going ahead with this? Does TFC really need 30,000 seats?


----------



## carnifex2005

TFC has about 17k season ticket holders and had to cap that amount. TFC definitely could use 30k seats especially since they are now ambitious.


----------



## Guest

For whatever reason I thougt owning the Argos was playing a key role in the expansion. Judging by this news, apparently not. Good luck to TFC, but this decision will be scrutinized more than ever now that they are moving forward as the only tenant.


----------



## Bori427

I really wish TFC a lot of success.


----------



## SJAnfield

I don't give a damn what the external view is. The only view I care about is the Quakes on the field.


----------



## will101

bd popeye said:


> San Jose does not have much of a skyline.


That's because downtown is under the landing approach pattern for SJC, and the FAA won't allow taller buildings. Even Levi's Stadium had to file documents with the FAA regarding the height of the structure.


----------



## bd popeye

will101 said:


> That's because downtown is under the landing approach pattern for SJC, and the FAA won't allow taller buildings. Even Levi's Stadium had to file documents with the FAA regarding the height of the structure.


Sounds similar to San Diego where as there is a height restriction because of the close proximity of Lindbergh Field to downtown the FAA limits building height to 500 feet.

San Diego Tallest Buildings

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

*MLS Attendance for 2014 *


----------



## Guest

News from the grapevine is that NYCFC has signed David Villa for 3 years. Sheeeeeeet. Please be true. 

From BS:


----------



## Luisca79

Renovated Florida Citrus Bowl Renders
This will be the home of Orlando City SC for 2015
(Couldn't find a render with soccer markings) 


KingmanIII said:


>


----------



## WesTexas

i hate seeing soccer and football games being played in baseball stadiums. Could they not get their games played in Met Life Stadium?


----------



## slipperydog

WesTexas said:


> i hate seeing soccer and football games being played in baseball stadiums. Could they not get their games played in Met Life Stadium?


That would have been the right call, at least for the first few years. The New York Giants belong to New York just as much as NYCFC wants to, so playing across the river wouldn't be a huge deal, and it would have proper football sightlines. David Villa playing in MetLife makes a lot more sense than David Villa playing in Yankee Stadium.


----------



## bd popeye

WesTexas said:


> i hate seeing soccer and football games being played in baseball stadiums. Could they not get their games played in Met Life Stadium?


_off topic_

Years ago many NFL games were played in baseball stadiums uses has home stadiums:

Yankee Stadium...Giants
Polo Grounds...Jets & Giants
Forbes Field...Steelers
Busch Stadium(original) St Louis Cardinals
Cleveland Municipal Stadium..Browns
Municipal Stadium...Chiefs
Fenway Park..Patriots..& Redskins
Braves Field..Redskins
Griffith Stadium...Redskins
Memorial Stadium ..Colts
Wrigley Field...Bears
Comiskey Park..Cardinals
Metropolitan Stadium....Vikings
Tiger Stadium...Lions

I left out the multi-purpose donut stadiums.

_end off topic_


----------



## Lumbergo

indeed. ignoring tv numbers I would say that soccer is about at the same popularity now that football was in the early and mid 20-th century. only instead of baseball being king it's now the NFL. if they have to play in a non-SSS for a few years then so be it. as long as it's only temporary. as the saying goes - you'll get over it.


----------



## slipperydog

bd popeye said:


> Years ago many NFL games were played in baseball stadiums uses has home stadiums


Which was absolutely awful. This is the 21st century.


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> News from the grapevine is that NYCFC has signed David Villa for 3 years. Sheeeeeeet. Please be true.


As a fan of MLS - Cool!
As someone wishing anything related to ManDhabi absolute failure - Boo!
As a general soccer fan - Why the Hades would he come here?*

*=He asked rhetorically.


----------



## BjarkeK

In the seeting chart for NCFC in Yankee Stadium, what are the difference between the Champions Club seats, and say Category 4? If you look at section 13 and 14, they are right next to each other, but the Club Seats are 1955 dollars for a season ticket, the category 4 ticket is 493 dollars.


----------



## GunnerJacket

BjarkeK said:


> In the seeting chart for NCFC in Yankee Stadium, what are the difference between the Champions Club seats, and say Category 4?


About $1,400 dollars. 

In all seriousness, I imagine the higher priced seats include on-site amenities like the ability to order food from your seat, discounts on souveniers, etc. At least I know that's how the Braves do it. We got prime seats as part of auction once and that included free parking, cheaper drinks, etc.


----------



## MJinOshkosh

bd popeye said:


> _off topic_
> 
> Years ago many NFL games were played in baseball stadiums uses has home stadiums:
> 
> Yankee Stadium...Giants
> Polo Grounds...Jets & Giants
> Forbes Field...Steelers
> Busch Stadium(original) St Louis Cardinals
> Cleveland Municipal Stadium..Browns
> Municipal Stadium...Chiefs
> Fenway Park..Patriots..& Redskins
> Braves Field..Redskins
> Griffith Stadium...Redskins
> Memorial Stadium ..Colts
> Wrigley Field...Bears
> Comiskey Park..Cardinals
> Metropolitan Stadium....Vikings
> Tiger Stadium...Lions
> 
> I left out the multi-purpose donut stadiums.
> 
> _end off topic_


Sorry, but you missed Milwaukee County Stadium (a baseball stadium) where the Green Bay Packers played several games a year there until 1992.


----------



## bd popeye

MJinOshkosh said:


> Sorry, but you missed Milwaukee County Stadium (a baseball stadium) where the Green Bay Packers played several games a year there until 1992.


You are correct! No need to apologize, No one is perfect..certainly not me

Hey....What about Exhibition Stadium in Toronto? Home of the Argonauts and Blue Jays. That was a cavernous beast of a stadium..


----------



## BoulderGrad

FWIW, here were the stadiums from the official bid that lost out to Qatar:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_2022_FIFA_World_Cup_bid

I gather its also a requirement that fields be grass for all official FIFA matches, yes?


----------



## nothatso

RFSK said:


> Us is not getting Fifa 2022, it will stay in Qatar period! but all this hoopla that is going around will cause, major changes to the Qatar of today...
> 
> And if the Cup is ever Revoked, it will still not go to the US! Australia, will get it, as Fifa can sell it as an Asian country... But to be honest, it should Stay in middle east UAE would be the country of choice.
> 
> On the Villa not, NYCFC have announced that he will stay in Manchester City, and train with the team, but he will apparently not play in the premier league.


While I agree that it will probably stay in Qatar, I'm not following your logic on why they would pick Australia. Australia has 6 stadiums of 50,000+ capacity, but three of them are 100+ years old, none of them are less than 14 years old, and only two of them have a capacity greater than 56,000. Thanks to the NFL the US has dozens of professional-grade stadiums over 60,000 in capacity, 21 of which were built within the last 20 years, with three more to be completed between this year and 2017. Australia, on relatively short notice, would have to build new stadiums and renovate old ones to accommodate a World Cup. The United States would not.

I'd also disagree that they "could sell Australia as an Asian country". Why would that matter to begin with?


----------



## GunnerJacket

RFSK said:


> Us is not getting Fifa 2022, it will stay in Qatar period! but all this hoopla that is going around will cause, major changes to the Qatar of today...
> 
> And if the Cup is ever Revoked...


We all understand this is speculation but there's enough credible press hinting about a revote that you probably can't affirm "it will stay in Qatar, period." Especially if you allow yourself room to also say "if the Cup is ever revoked."

Same rule about a possible US bid. We all know it's a matter of IFs, but if there is indeed a revote then there's no reason to affirm the US is out of the running. 

IF there is a revote then we can safely assume that only the following are certainties:
- It won't go to Russia, Brazil or South Africa
- It won't go to Qatar

Beyond that is speculation.


> Australia, will get it, as Fifa can sell it as an Asian country...


Australia can package a fair bid and I think it should be the next host among Asian Federation nations, but politics suggests FIFA might move for more of a sure thing (ie: US) than another nation still requiring significant investment. I wouldn't expect Australia to struggle as Brasil has, but they would have work to do. 


> But to be honest, it should Stay in middle east UAE would be the country of choice.


There is nary a nation in the Middle East that could escape the same issues currently confounding Qatar. Egypt or Morocco (as an Arab nation) would be the best choice based on infrastructure and logistics, IMO, but even then you're asking a lot of the host nations to meet FIFA standards in time. (Turkey is another option but as a UEFA nation would be considered at a different cycle.) You're not going to simply pick a nation without them first offering a credible bid, and to my knowledge UAE has not done so.

Could they do it? Sure, so could Qatar. But IF Qatar is indeed dropping the ball then any revote will want to avoid "could" and instead find more "will."


----------



## joezierer

BoulderGrad said:


> I gather its also a requirement that fields be grass for all official FIFA matches, yes?


Yes. As I recall in 94 they actually used lamps to grow grass in the Silverdome.


----------



## Kerrybai

nothatso said:


> While I agree that it will probably stay in Qatar, I'm not following your logic on why they would pick Australia. Australia has 6 stadiums of 50,000+ capacity, but three of them are 100+ years old, none of them are less than 14 years old, and only two of them have a capacity greater than 56,000. Thanks to the NFL the US has dozens of professional-grade stadiums over 60,000 in capacity, 21 of which were built within the last 20 years, with three more to be completed between this year and 2017. Australia, on relatively short notice, would have to build new stadiums and renovate old ones to accommodate a World Cup. The United States would not.
> 
> I'd also disagree that they "could sell Australia as an Asian country". Why would that matter to begin with?


Fair point but the World Cup isn't until 2022, that's hardly short notice for Australia to get their shit together.


----------



## RFSK

nothatso said:


> I'd also disagree that they "could sell Australia as an Asian country". Why would that matter to begin with?


As it was stated earlier the americas is 'considered' as one continent, when choosing a host nation. Australia is playing out of Asia, and if you take the cup away from Asia it is only fair that an Asian Country gets it.


GunnerJacket said:


> We all understand this is speculation but there's enough credible press hinting about a revote that you probably can't affirm "it will stay in Qatar, period." Especially if you allow yourself room to also say "if the Cup is ever revoked."
> 
> 
> 
> Same rule about a possible US bid. We all know it's a matter of IFs, but if there is indeed a revote then there's no reason to affirm the US is out of the running.
> 
> IF there is a revote then we can safely assume that only the following are certainties:
> - It won't go to Russia, Brazil or South Africa
> - It won't go to Qatar
> 
> Beyond that is speculation.
> Australia can package a fair bid and I think it should be the next host among Asian Federation nations, but politics suggests FIFA might move for more of a sure thing (ie: US) than another nation still requiring significant investment. I wouldn't expect Australia to struggle as Brasil has, but they would have work to do.
> There is nary a nation in the Middle East that could escape the same issues currently confounding Qatar. Egypt or Morocco (as an Arab nation) would be the best choice based on infrastructure and logistics, IMO, but even then you're asking a lot of the host nations to meet FIFA standards in time. (Turkey is another option but as a UEFA nation would be considered at a different cycle.) You're not going to simply pick a nation without them first offering a credible bid, and to my knowledge UAE has not done so.
> 
> Could they do it? Sure, so could Qatar. But IF Qatar is indeed dropping the ball then any revote will want to avoid "could" and instead find more "will."


It is not credible press hinting! it's more like a wild goose chase! ever since Russia and Qatar got awarded the cups, their was a wild out cry from the western media ( Read American media) that the whole thing was rigged, and it was unfair that they didn't get the cup themselves (the aussies weren't better themselves) and ever since then. there have been a campaign to destabilise Qatar's World cup bid and throw them under the bus! and you all know it! From it's too hot, lets have a winter World cup. to gay rights, woman rights and now overall human rights. it's like a lobby firm has been hired to always keep the mud coming and keep the hope alive!

Was it rigged??? alright come on, since when have you all become so righteous! every major hosting is bought in some kind of way or another. either by you get it this time we the other, or give it to that country, and we'll make sure the corporate money will follow You or the others will probably have better stories then i have... and i'm not saying that Qatar 2022 was rigged, or it's ok that it was, just that the general consensus have always been that Fifa WC, Olympics etc is always in some way or the other 'rigged' so why all these inquisitions now... why can't people comprehend that Qatar Won this game, lets prepare for the next one and win that!


----------



## Archbishop

The 2022/2026 US bid should be something like:


MetLife
Gillette
Fedex Field/New DC Stadium
Soldier Field
Mile High (or whatever Invesco is called now)
Lincoln Financial
AT&T Stadium
Dolphin Stadium (or SunLife or whatever it's called)
New Falcons
Rose Bowl
CLink
Levi's Stadium

That's the best spread for fans from the US to see, it has most of the major metro areas in the country, and it could condense travel (although Denver and Chicago are sort of out there). In a perfect world there would be a better representation in the Midwest, but I feel like the stadiums and cities in the Midwest didn't deserve games as much as Philly, Denver, and Seattle.


----------



## Archbishop

They don't need to hire a "lobby firm" when the Qataris are killing all of those migrant "workers" who are essentially slaves.


----------



## bd popeye

ReNaHtEiM said:


> Rose Bowl
> New Falcons Stadium
> MetLife Stadium
> New Vikings Stadium
> Sun Life Stadium
> Sports Authority Field at Mile High
> Ford Field
> Century Link Field
> AT&T Stadium
> Soldier Field
> University of Phoenix Stadium
> Lucas Oil Stadium
> Lincoln Financial Field
> FedEX Field
> NRG Stadium
> LP Field
> Mercedes Benz Superdome



This is my list from another forum in a fantasy ..

My fantasy list of US stadiums for a WC to be held iin the US.

All these stadiums meet FIFA standards..I think.

CenturyLink Field Seattle WA

Rose Bowl Pasadena CA

University of Phoenix Stadium Glendale AZ

A T & T Stadium Arlington TX

Reliant Stadium Houston TX

Arrowhead Stadium Kansas City MO

Soldier Field Chicago IL

Mercedes-Benz Superdome New Orleans LA

Sun Life Stadium Miami Gardens FL

Raymond James Stadium Tampa FL

M&T Bank Stadium Baltimore MD

MetLife Stadium Stadium Rutherford NY

There are many others stadiums in the US that could host a FIFA WC event. Many.

The 1994 WC held in the USA still holds the record to total attendance.

from wiki



> Highest average of attendance per match
> 68,991, 1994.
> 
> Highest attendance in a tournament
> 3,570,000, 1994.


Sorry Will101 I forgot the 49ers new stadium.. but I would include it now...and if San Diego or LA ever got new stadiums you could count them in.


----------



## RFSK

Archbishop said:


> They don't need to hire a "lobby firm" when the Qataris are killing all of those migrant "workers" who are essentially slaves.


so thats the only thing, you've got from my post? haha cute well carry on then, i won't spoil you guys' fantasy lists


----------



## Lumbergo

I don't recall anyone crying out about corruption when Russia was awarded (though I wouldn't be shocked if there were, honestly.) I think most people are upset over Qatar because of the human rights violations more than anything else. 

Anyways let's get back on topic shall we? 

Has there been any news regarding Orlando's new stadium? I remember seeing recently that there were still a couple of property hold outs where the stadium is to be built.


----------



## Kerrybai

bd popeye said:


> This is my list from another forum in a fantasy ..
> 
> My fantasy list of US stadiums for a WC to be held iin the US.
> 
> All these stadiums meet FIFA standards..I think.
> 
> CenturyLink Field Seattle WA
> 
> Rose Bowl Pasadena CA
> 
> University of Phoenix Stadium Glendale AZ
> 
> A T & T Stadium Arlington TX
> 
> Reliant Stadium Houston TX
> 
> Arrowhead Stadium Kansas City MO
> 
> Soldier Field Chicago IL
> 
> Mercedes-Benz Superdome New Orleans LA
> 
> Sun Life Stadium Miami Gardens FL
> 
> Raymond James Stadium Tampa FL
> 
> M&T Bank Stadium Baltimore MD
> 
> MetLife Stadium Stadium Rutherford NY


A bit off topic but I would like to see a regional US World Cup... perhaps the Northeast or California area would be capable of hosting a World Cup on its own. It would give the tournament's fans a far greater chance to travel to each game of their country, and most of all it would give the World Cup an intimate feel, similar to that of Germany...

I don't think it would ever happen though.


----------



## will101

Kerrybai said:


> A bit off topic but I would like to see a regional US World Cup... perhaps the Northeast or California area would be capable of hosting a World Cup on its own. It would give the tournament's fans a far greater chance to travel to each game of their country, and most of all it would give the World Cup an intimate feel, similar to that of Germany...
> 
> I don't think it would ever happen though.


A couple of us threw out suggestions for a California/Nevada bid, and came up with 12 venues that were above or could be raised to 40k, but that discussion didn't go anywhere. If anyone got serious about it, a realistic bid would probably have to include Oregon and Washington, and possibly Arizona and Utah.


----------



## will101

bd popeye said:


> Sorry Will101 I forgot the 49ers new stadium ..


For that you should DIE! :crazy:


----------



## Archbishop

You could have a bunch of World Cups going at the same time in the US. Texas, California, Midwest, East Coast, Southeast, etc. If they wanted to make the Gold Cup regional, I would be all for it.

The World Cup should be made so all American fans in large metro areas have the opportunity to attend, which is why IMO there should not be two stadiums in Texas or Florida used.


----------



## poguemahone

nothatso said:


> While I agree that it will probably stay in Qatar, I'm not following your logic on why they would pick Australia. Australia has 6 stadiums of 50,000+ capacity, but three of them are 100+ years old, none of them are less than 14 years old, and only two of them have a capacity greater than 56,000. Thanks to the NFL the US has dozens of professional-grade stadiums over 60,000 in capacity, 21 of which were built within the last 20 years, with three more to be completed between this year and 2017. Australia, on relatively short notice, would have to build new stadiums and renovate old ones to accommodate a World Cup. The United States would not.
> 
> I'd also disagree that they "could sell Australia as an Asian country". Why would that matter to begin with?


You're so ignorant regarding the 100 year old stadiums. Those 3 100+ year old stadiums you talk of have all been re-built/re-developed in 2003,2006 and 2014.

Adelaide Oval rebuilding finished in 2014 (53,583 seats)










Melbourne Cricket Ground redeveloped 2006 (100,024 seats)










Lang Park in Brisbane re-built in 2003 (52,500 seats)










Also with ANZ stadium built 1999 and redeveloped in 2003 (83,500 seats) and Sydney Football Stadium built in 1988 and with a redevelopment including a roof covering the whole ground set to be completed by 2020 (45,500 seats) both in Sydney. Hunter Stadium in Newcastle currently being redeveloped from 33,000 to 40,000 seats with the first stage completed in 2003 and the most recent main stand completed in 2011, just the two ends to complete now.

The Government in Perth are building a new 60,000 seat stadium, regardless of us getting the world cup or not.

Carrara Stadium on the Gold Coast is being extended to 40,000 for the 2018 Commonwealth Games. 

So that would leave only 2-3 big redevelopments/new building of grounds which aren't currently planned. probably in the Cities of Canberra, Geelong and Townsville. 

Plus there is also the 53,359 seat Docklands stadium in Melbourne which could also be used, it was built in 2000.

I think Australia is definitely a logical choice for a world cup in terms of us being a very stable country, with a large economy, we have all the infrastructure like modern airports, hotels. Sport mad country, which has a track record in holding major events such as two olympics. It's in the Asian confederation and would be a whole new destination for the World Cup.

As I have said previously though, I wouldn't be too upset loosing out to the US. You obviously have the infrastructure in place, it's a massive market Football is yet to fully crack, you have the sponsorship dollars and of course it would be a great country for fans to travel to, unlike Qatar. It's also a very safe option for FIFA after the debacles involved with hosting the events in Brazil and South Africa, although I do feel Australia would be a safe option too. I just pray if it is re-run that it doesn't go to Japan or Korea, it would mean it won't be coming back to Asia until at least 2034 and by the China would have gotten their shit together to host it.


----------



## will101

OK, so far I have five lists, all tallied by the miracle of the spreadsheet. 24 stadiums have received votes. (Benn tried to vote twice, but I'm ignoring one of them  ) The tally is:
5 votes: AT&T, CenturyLink, MetLife and Rose Bowl.
4 votes: new Falcons, FedEx, Levi's, Mile High and SunLife.
3 votes: Gillette, Soldier, Superdome and new Vikings.
2 votes: Arrowhead, Link Fin, Michigan, NRG and U of Phoenix.
1 vote: Citrus, Ford, LP, Lucas Oil, M&T Bank and Raymond James

Since this is about as scientific as a witch doctor ceremony, I'm going to let it continue for a while. But it's 7:35, and I'm going to go :eat:


----------



## bd popeye

will101 said:


> For that you should DIE! :crazy:


Oh I'm not planning on passing away anytime soon. Trust me...Actually on my original list I included Stanford Stadium..Which I know meets FIFA standards. Levi Stadium will be an excellent venue for any type of event.

In my opinion the US could host a WC with short notice..perhaps as short as six months. Accommodations would be the biggest problem because of the time of year the WC takes place in June. 

Stadiums? No problem. Most American football stadiums are dormant in June occasionally hosting usually concerts , dirt track events etc.. Nothing major.


----------



## will101

I know the old Stanford met the standards. I was at the July 4 1994 game vs. Brazil. But I'm not sure if the new one qualifies. It's a complete rebuild, and you can't tell much about the dimensions on Google maps, as the aerial photo doesn't show any lines on the turf.


----------



## Guest

Regarding the Australia bid, if Asia came to a consensus about having one major candidate, you have 50 odd nations almost guaranteed to vote, plus Australia's proximity and relations with Oceania means another 10 odd votes. US has Concacaf and Conmebol, though their weight of numbers falls below even just Asia alone. 

I know its not as simple as that, but to the person who mentioned that Australia got just one vote, they seem to forget that the eventual winner was an Asian bid. You take out Qatar, most of those countries vote for Australia. We should also remember Oceania wasn't allowed to vote, depriving them even further. That would leave them in a fight for European and African votes. 

I'm confident we'd win if FIFA isn't planning a Centenary Cup in 2030. If they are really hellbent on it, Australia have to be favorites.


----------



## will101

5portsF4n said:


> Regarding the Australia bid, if Asia came to a consensus about having one major candidate, you have 50 odd nations almost guaranteed to vote, plus Australia's proximity and relations with Oceania means another 10 odd votes. US has Concacaf and Conmebol, though their weight of numbers falls below even just Asia alone.
> 
> I know its not as simple as that, but to the person who mentioned that Australia got just one vote, they seem to forget that the eventual winner was an Asian bid. You take out Qatar, most of those countries vote for Australia. We should also remember Oceania wasn't allowed to vote, depriving them even further. That would leave them in a fight for European and African votes.
> 
> I'm confident we'd win if FIFA isn't planning a Centenary Cup in 2030. If they are really hellbent on it, Australia have to be favorites.


You're assuming the vote is like the IOC, but it doesn't work that way. There are 22 members of the FIFA council, no more than one per country, and they are the ones who vote.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_FIFA_World_Cup_bids


----------



## ReNaHtEiM

They changed that. From now on the FIFA congress will appoint the host not the executive committee like before.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

Kerrybai said:


> A bit off topic but I would like to see a regional US World Cup... perhaps the Northeast or California area would be capable of hosting a World Cup on its own. It would give the tournament's fans a far greater chance to travel to each game of their country, and most of all it would give the World Cup an intimate feel, similar to that of Germany...
> 
> I don't think it would ever happen though.


Ive always thought that it would be better if we had regional bids. Much easier on the visitors and teams. 

Just in California alone (I know these arent all great soccer venues, but they work capacity wise) ...

Qualcomm
Petco

Rose Bowl
Coliseum 
New NFL Stadium
Dodger Stadium
Angel Stadium
StubHub (Expanded)

At&T
Stanford Stadium
New 49ers
Candlestick
Oakland Alameda


----------



## GunnerJacket

will101 said:


> OK, so far I have five lists, all tallied by the miracle of the spreadsheet. 24 stadiums have received votes. (Benn tried to vote twice, but I'm ignoring one of them  ) The tally is:
> 5 votes: *AT&T, CenturyLink, MetLife *and *Rose Bowl*.
> 4 votes: *new Falcons, FedEx, Levi's*, Mile High and SunLife.
> 3 votes: *Gillette, Soldier*, Superdome and *new Vikings*.
> 2 votes: Arrowhead, Link Fin, Michigan, NRG and *U of Phoenix*.
> 1 vote: *Citrus*, Ford, LP, Lucas Oil, M&T Bank and Raymond James


I could easily see one of SunLife and the Citrus Bowl dropped in favor of another (NRG or Superdome), and I could also see M&T Bank or Linc Fin over an outdated FedEx. Otherwise, there's my 12.



RFSK said:


> It is not credible press hinting! ...


Will send a PM response.


----------



## will101

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> Ive always thought that it would be better if we had regional bids. Much easier on the visitors and teams.
> 
> Just in California alone (I know these arent all great soccer venues, but they work capacity wise) ...
> 
> Qualcomm
> Petco
> 
> Rose Bowl
> Coliseum
> New NFL Stadium
> Dodger Stadium
> Angel Stadium
> StubHub (Expanded)
> 
> At&T
> Stanford Stadium
> New 49ers
> Candlestick
> Oakland Alameda


If we were going to do that, it might be better to include much of the Pacific time zone. Just with football/soccer fields, that list could look like this:
Seattle - CenturyLink (67,000 for soccer)
Corvallis - Reser (45,674)
Eugene - Autzen (~59,000 - not 100% sure that the field is large enough)
Reno - Mackay (30,000 - this would need about 10,000 seats added.)
Las Vegas - Sam Boyd (36,800 - this would need about 5,000 seats added.)
Oakland - Coliseum (~60,000) or new stadium (unknown size)
Santa Clara - Levi's (~75,000 for the Cup)
Fresno - Bulldog (41,031)
Los Angeles - Coliseum (~90,000) or new stadium (unknown size)
Pasadena - Rose Bowl (~90,000)
San Diego - Qualcomm (~65,000 for the Cup, some of the field level seating would have to go away)
I'm also assuming that Candlestick Park will have been demolished by 2022. If we needed more venues, then we could look at the remaining MLB parks, but I'm trying not to have more than two venues in any metro area.


----------



## slipperydog

ReNaHtEiM said:


> They changed that. From now on the FIFA congress will appoint the host not the executive committee like before.


So every single Caribbean nation gets a vote, while South America only gets 10?


----------



## ReNaHtEiM

I know it's weird. Probably they think the more voters they have the harder it is to bribe.


----------



## slipperydog

It may be harder to bribe, but giving every member a vote marginalizes the influence of smaller confederations. If they actually do a re-vote for 2022, they might just use the Executive Committee again.


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## bd popeye

will101 said:


> If we were going to do that, it might be better to include much of the Pacific time zone. Just with football/soccer fields, that list could look like this:
> ...
> ...
> ...
> ...
> 
> San Diego - Qualcomm (~65,000 for the Cup, some of the field level seating would have to go away)


That would be awesome. Especially if USA played El Tri for the final...

El Tri = Mexico.


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## KeanoManu

slipperydog said:


>


1764? icard:
Sure, it's the year that the CITY was founded. But it's cheating having that on the badge for a team that was created in 2014 and trying to create some sort of history.


----------



## JYDA

What's with the fleur de lis?


----------



## ReNaHtEiM

St. Louis was founded by the french and is named after king louis IX.


----------



## tonttula

KeanoManu said:


> 1764? icard:
> Sure, it's the year that the CITY was founded. But it's cheating having that on the badge for a team that was created in 2014 and trying to create some sort of history.


I doubt anybody is going to read 1764 as when the soocer club was founded.
I see nothing wrong with putting down when the city was founded. Write whatever you want. Why should you or I care about it as long as the locals find it fitting? I certainly don't.


----------



## will101

slipperydog said:


> So every single Caribbean nation gets a vote, while South America only gets 10?


Actually, "South America" gets 11. Suriname plays in CONCACAF.


----------



## Kerrybai

will101 said:


> Actually, "South America" gets 11. Suriname plays in CONCACAF.


I think it's 10. 12 countries in SA with Suriname and Guyana playing in CONCACAF.


----------



## ReNaHtEiM

Anyway, it doesn't seem to be a good idea to give so many votes to unimportant associations.


----------



## weava

slipperydog said:


>


another soccer team calling themselves a football team in the US... hno:


----------



## trmather

Kerrybai said:


> Fair point but the World Cup isn't until 2022, that's hardly short notice for Australia to get their shit together.


Depends if they're as useless as Brazil...


----------



## Guest

weava said:


> another soccer team calling themselves a football team in the US... hno:


:|

Second badge rocks,first not so much. Louisville one is great too.


----------



## weava

5portsF4n said:


> :|
> 
> Second badge rocks,first not so much. Louisville one is great too.


As a lifelong Missourian with STL ties, I prefer the 1st one as it has the arch and river in the logo. The 2nd one looks like a fleur on a tennis ball with a year that has nothing to do with the team.

(still think they should change the name to soccer club...)


----------



## poguemahone

David Villa has signed on loan for 10 games at Melbourne City from New York City. Name change from Melbourne Heart to Melbourne City announced this morning too.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/sp...-city-in-aleague/story-e6frf7jo-1226944133920


----------



## Guest

Their jersey might be green and blue vertical stripes, and it looks less of a tennis ball than the first. 

The year is the founding of the city, similar to what Houston wanted to do before they were denied. It has something to do with the team because its the city theyre representing. I mean, we all know how team monickers are all relevant to their teams and cities... Oh wait. 

Im glad theyre in USL Pro, it might actually work this time.


----------



## Guest

poguemahone said:


> David Villa has signed on loan for 10 games at Melbourne City from New York City. Name change from Melbourne Heart to Melbourne City announced this morning too.
> 
> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/sp...-city-in-aleague/story-e6frf7jo-1226944133920


As expected. Its a good coup for them, but it might mess up their overall season. Nycfc are probably paying him anywhere betwen 8-12m a year, so I really hope he doesnt get injured there.


----------



## poguemahone

5portsF4n said:


> As expected. Its a good coup for them, but it might mess up their overall season. Nycfc are probably paying him anywhere betwen 8-12m a year, so I really hope he doesnt get injured there.


Even if he does there will be months before your season starts. He will only be allowed to play 10 games until some stupid guest stint rule we have, where you can sign a player outside the salary cap on a short term contract, but only if they offer the league something in terms of promotional value.


----------



## bd popeye

*El Tri in the USA*





> Mexico's Giovani dos Santos (10) is congratulated by Javier Hernandez, left, and Marco Fabian, right, after scoring against Ecuador in the second half of a friendly soccer match, Saturday, May 31, 2014, at A T & T Stadium in Arlington, Texas. Mexico won 3-1. Attendance 80,000+ (AP Photo/Tony Gutierrez, File)






> Giovani dos Santos of Mexico celebrates a scored goal, the third of the match, during the International Friendly match between Mexico and Ecuador


_Interesting article in the link below..some what lengthy.._

*Fan group Pancho Villa's Army leads Mexico soccer's invasion of US*



> So far in 2014, El Tri have attracted 54,313 fans for a game without Europe-based players against South Korea in San Antonio; 68,212 to Atlanta for a friendly in March against Nigeria; and just under 85,000 to the AT&T Stadium in Arlington, Texas last Saturday night, for a 3-1 win against Ecuador.






> Page by Mike Dyce - Apr 2, 2014; Glendale, AZ, USA; Mexico defender Miguel Layun (7) against USA during a friendly match at University of Phoenix Stadium.
> 
> For a friendly between El Tri and the USA on 2 April, in Phoenix, Mexico fans heavily outnumbered those of the hosts, roughly 70-30 in a near-60,000 crowd.


----------



## Guest

Mex got 60k at Soldier Field yesterday against Bosnia.


----------



## Guest

CalExpo in Sacramento with final prep
http://gooddaysacramento.cbslocal.com/video/10212944-new-sac-republic-fc-field/


----------



## The Real Gazmon

They seriously used a cone/dome to hold up the corner flag? How... amateur... I understand why, but surely they could have come up with a way to insert a slot into the group/turf.


----------



## carnifex2005

poguemahone said:


> David Villa has signed on loan for 10 games at Melbourne City from New York City. Name change from Melbourne Heart to Melbourne City announced this morning too.
> 
> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/sp...-city-in-aleague/story-e6frf7jo-1226944133920


Interesting. Never thought that would have happened. I thought that he might play for Man City themselves for a while. Good news for the Aussies.


----------



## JJG

weava said:


> another soccer team calling themselves a football team in the US... hno:





5portsF4n said:


> :|
> 
> Second badge rocks,first not so much. Louisville one is great too.


Like it or not, weava has a point. 

It can be a little confusing considering that "football" in this country typically refers to the odd shaped pigskin and not game with the World Cup. 

That being said, the badge on the left looks better.


----------



## slipperydog

5portsF4n said:


> :|
> 
> Second badge rocks,first not so much.


I feel the exact opposite on St Louis. I think the first one is far and away better and it's not even close. It almost looks medieval, incorporates both the river and the arch. The second one is boring and derivative.


----------



## derzberb

JJG said:


> It can be a little confusing considering that "football" in this country typically refers to the odd shaped pigskin and not game with the World Cup.


so there is one thing which is football and another thing like handoddshapedpigskin


----------



## Lumbergo

^^I've heard people refer to it as Hand Egg


----------



## matthemod

I don't think it really matters about what they call themselves, as no one is going to confuse New York City FC with the New York Giants/Jets. For the most part people will have the awareness that they're entirely separate sports, especially those who are fans of either/both sports.

Here in the U.K. it's not uncommon for fans of both Rugby Union and Rugby League to call their favourite sport Football, as is the same for Ireland with Gaelic Football, and it's the same in Australia/New Zealand/South Africa. In these areas the sport is predominantly called Soccer, but they know that internationally Football is the most common name for it, and they're aware for the most part that if someone is talking about the football world cup, they mean the one with the round ball. 

You cannot fault a club in what is still a relatively minor sport in the U.S.A. for wanting to appeal to a wider, more international audience, whether it's for credence and respect, or the potential marketability involved. Taking into account the vast majority of Soccer fans in the U.S. were probably brought up supporting a European team with the more traditional sounding name, I don't begrudge any new team adding an F.C. suffix to their name to try and appeal to this huge potential catchment area.

I suppose another way to look at it is to think about the potential London based NFL team, they're not going to call themselves London Football Club but probably something cringe-worthy like the London Royals, or the London Sillynannies. They'll choose the American style team name because it suits the global perception of the sport itself, and for the same reasons I mentioned above, just the roles reversed.

Edit: Cringe-worthy not because American style team names are, but because the London NFL team is an abomination which should never happen.


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


>


Is this a joke? Looks like someone enjoyed the Orlando crest and mocked this up for Louisville.



poguemahone said:


> David Villa has signed on loan for 10 games at Melbourne City from New York City. Name change from Melbourne Heart to Melbourne City announced this morning too.
> 
> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/sp...-city-in-aleague/story-e6frf7jo-1226944133920


Oh goodie. Let's take one step further to where teams are no longer local local entities but are instead franchises of the parent club! Every nation can have a ManCity off shoot, a Barca team, a Red Bull club... 

Excuse me while I go pound my head against the wall.


----------



## Kerrybai

David Villa is a great signing but I do feel he has gone into semi retirement too early. He still had 1-2 good years left in him. That's not to take anything away from MLS which I'm a big fan of.

Speaking of MLS, I would love to see smaller leagues in Europe adopt a similar salary system to create parity. The smaller leagues here would be far more interesting if they had some competition. Never going to happen though.


----------



## slipperydog

GunnerJacket said:


> Is this a joke? Looks like someone enjoyed the Orlando crest and mocked this up for Louisville.


It is Orlando City. The club is moving to Louisville when the MLS team starts.


----------



## AcesHigh

trmather said:


> Depends if they're as useless as Brazil...


hno:hno:

well, the stadiums GOT ready after all.

and though there were 7 years since Brazil was chosen, the host cities were only defined in the end of 2009, with FIFA partially to blame, because it was FIFA which decided the host cities.

then, you say Brazil was useless, but the number of brand new big stadiums and the level of deep renovation in all stadiums that suffered renovations, was UNPARALLELED in other World Cups.

And finally, it was more a question of bureaucracy than uselessness... plus the fact that stadiums that were ready in 2012 were simply not chosen to be used... go figure.


----------



## AcesHigh

Anyway, FIFA stadium standarts were raised quite a lot since the last USA World Cup in 1994. All those ROOFLESS bowls would not be accepted anymore.

if roofless stadiums were accepted, Brazil would have had much less work reforming old stadiums and building new ones.

so, to a USA World Cup, what 10-12 40k+ stadiums WITH roofs covering at least 80% of spectators are available in the US? (this is a sincere question. I know there are a lot, including the one abandoned near Detroit)


----------



## Topher51

Does every city founded by the French now get to use the fleur de lis in their sports logo?


----------



## Kerrybai

AcesHigh said:


> Anyway, FIFA stadium standarts were raised quite a lot since the last USA World Cup in 1994. All those ROOFLESS bowls would not be accepted anymore.
> 
> if roofless stadiums were accepted, Brazil would have had much less work reforming old stadiums and building new ones.
> 
> so, to a USA World Cup, what 10-12 40k+ stadiums WITH roofs covering at least 80% of spectators are available in the US? (this is a sincere question. I know there are a lot, including the one abandoned near Detroit)


Off the top of my head

New Atlanta stadium
New Vikings stadium
Arizona
Houston
Dallas
Ford Field Detroit
Lucas Oil stadium
New Orleans
St Louis

That's 9 covered stadiums with over 60k capacity.


----------



## AcesHigh

Kerrybai said:


> Off the top of my head
> 
> New Atlanta stadium
> New Vikings stadium
> Arizona
> Houston
> Dallas
> Ford Field Detroit
> Lucas Oil stadium
> New Orleans
> St Louis
> 
> That's 9 covered stadiums with over 60k capacity.


thanks. All of them are NFL or soccer? I don´t think Baseball Stadiums can be used in a World Cup. Can you provide photos?

was there so much stadium construction since 1994 or they just didn´t use many of the covered stadiums available back then?


----------



## vadin

Kerrybai said:


> Off the top of my head
> 
> New Atlanta stadium
> New Vikings stadium
> Arizona
> Houston
> Dallas
> Ford Field Detroit
> Lucas Oil stadium
> New Orleans
> St Louis
> 
> That's 9 covered stadiums with over 60k capacity.


Centurylink Field in Seattle - Capacity: 67,000
Husky Stadium in Seattle - Capacity: 70,000


----------



## weava

AcesHigh said:


> thanks. All of them are NFL or soccer? I don´t think Baseball Stadiums can be used in a World Cup. Can you provide photos?
> 
> was there so much stadium construction since 1994 or they just didn´t use many of the covered stadiums available back then?


Every one of those stadiums is newer than 94 except for the superdome. And all of them are NFL but capable of hosting soccer. The largest soccer stadium in the US is around 25,000 seats.


----------



## GunnerJacket

AcesHigh said:


> Anyway, FIFA stadium standarts were raised quite a lot since the last USA World Cup in 1994. All those ROOFLESS bowls would not be accepted anymore.
> 
> if roofless stadiums were accepted, Brazil would have had much less work reforming old stadiums and building new ones.


FIFA's desire for roofing over the stands is more a preference than a requirement, though the idea has become so expected in soccer cultures people don't even question it anymore. (Especially in Europe where roofing is required for UEFA events)

Here's the link to the FIFA's bid evaluation for USA 2022. No where in the assessment of stadiums did it highlight the fact that 12 of the 18 candidate venues submitted lack roofing of any kind over the seating. In fact, the assessment states "_All 18 stadiums are built with no further renovation indicated. Nevertheless, since most stadiums are American football venues, the bidder plans to remove seats in the corners and adapt existing strucutre to meet FIFA's World Cup pitch size requirements_." Nothing else is listed about needing roofs yet the venue situation was graded "Low Risk," which is the best rating possible. 

Australia faced a similar situation with some of their ovals, but again no fuss was raised. I suspect that's because FIFA's desire for roofing is for spectator comfort in situations of markedly cold or wet weather, which a lot of the US venues don't need to worry about. Might there have been a request for some additional work and roofing? Most likely, and some venues probably would've complied. Miami's owner wants a roof and the folks in Baltimore offered something as a way of possibly bettering the options in DC and Philly. 

Bottom line - The current lack of roofs on USA stadiums was not an obstacle in FIFA's review when the bids were evaluated, and the calibre of the stadiums is otherwise so top notch that the parties involved would find a way to make it work. If need be I'm sure a couple of the venues could've erected temporary fabric-based roofs to meet the needs.



Topher51 said:


> Does every city founded by the French now get to use the fleur de lis in their sports logo?


Oui.


----------



## GunnerJacket

AcesHigh said:


> was there so much stadium construction since 1994 or they just didn´t use many of the covered stadiums available back then?


Weava is correct in that all but the Superdome in New Orleans is/will be brand new. When your culture involves heavy amounts of government subsidies then the team owners love to try to one-up each other regarding the latests and greatest of venues. It's sad, really, but the flip side is arguably the greatest collection of sporting venues around. 



vadin said:


> Centurylink Field in Seattle - Capacity: 67,000
> Husky Stadium in Seattle - Capacity: 70,000


Both are only partial, but Seattle is considering a roof extension to coincide with the expansion of the south end zone. I'm not sure if the roof over the sideline seating covers all the seats but it certainly close enough.



Not sure if the Alamodome could hold soccer but with Houston and Dallas in the mix I doubt they'd do three in Texas.


----------



## AcesHigh

weava said:


> Every one of those stadiums is newer than 94 except for the superdome. *And all of them are NFL but capable of hosting soccer.* The largest soccer stadium in the US is around 25,000 seats.


I remember in 94 there were a few problems regarding official pitch size for soccer compared to the available area of american football fields... which are narrower and longer.



GunnerJacket said:


> FIFA's desire for roofing over the stands is more a preference than a requirement, though the idea has become so expected in soccer cultures people don't even question it anymore. (Especially in Europe where roofing is required for UEFA events)
> 
> Here's the link to the FIFA's bid evaluation for USA 2022. No where in the assessment of stadiums did it highlight the fact that 12 of the 18 candidate venues submitted lack roofing of any kind over the seating. In fact, the assessment states "_All 18 stadiums are built with no further renovation indicated. Nevertheless, since most stadiums are American football venues, the bidder plans to remove seats in the corners and adapt existing strucutre to meet FIFA's World Cup pitch size requirements_." Nothing else is listed about needing roofs yet the venue situation was graded "Low Risk," which is the best rating possible.
> 
> Australia faced a similar situation with some of their ovals, but again no fuss was raised. I suspect that's because FIFA's desire for roofing is for spectator comfort in situations of markedly cold or wet weather, which a lot of the US venues don't need to worry about. Might there have been a request for some additional work and roofing? Most likely, and some venues probably would've complied. Miami's owner wants a roof and the folks in Baltimore offered something as a way of possibly bettering the options in DC and Philly.
> 
> Bottom line - The current lack of roofs on USA stadiums was not an obstacle in FIFA's review when the bids were evaluated, and the calibre of the stadiums is otherwise so top notch that the parties involved would find a way to make it work. If need be I'm sure a couple of the venues could've erected temporary fabric-based roofs to meet the needs.
> 
> Oui.


FIFA *DEMANDED* roofing in all brazilian stadiums, and the requirements of % covered was INCREASED compared to S.Africa. It were not simply "recommendations".


again, some people here saying Brazil was useless in building the stadiums... well, if FIFA did not DEMANDED the roofs, the level of renovation and work on new stadiums would be MUCH SMALLER.


----------



## will101

Kerrybai said:


> I think it's 10. 12 countries in SA with Suriname and Guyana playing in CONCACAF.


Right. I missed Guyana. So all 12 South American countries have a vote, but two of them play in CONCACAF. I have no doubt that in any sort of contentious vote, Suriname and Guyana would look south, not north.


----------



## will101

AcesHigh said:


> FIFA *DEMANDED* roofing in all brazilian stadiums, and the requirements of % covered was INCREASED compared to S.Africa. It were not simply "recommendations".


Got a link for that? Links work better than shouting, anyway.


----------



## Kerrybai

AcesHigh said:


> I remember in 94 there were a few problems regarding official pitch size for soccer compared to the available area of american football fields... which are narrower and longer.
> 
> 
> 
> FIFA *DEMANDED* roofing in all brazilian stadiums, and the requirements of % covered was INCREASED compared to S.Africa. It were not simply "recommendations".
> 
> 
> again, some people here saying Brazil was useless in building the stadiums... well, if FIFA did not DEMANDED the roofs, the level of renovation and work on new stadiums would be MUCH SMALLER.


Even if they need 12 with roofs it will not be a problem. We have listed 11 so faf that have cover and over 60k capacity. I'm sure there are plenty more and if needs be they could build roofs or even a couple of brand new stadiums.



will101 said:


> Right. I missed Guyana. So all 12 South American countries have a vote, but two of them play in CONCACAF. I have no doubt that in any sort of contentious vote, Suriname and Guyana would look south, not north.


You are right it's 12 , in my attempt to correct you i confused myself :lol:


----------



## bd popeye

AcesHigh said:


> thanks. All of them are NFL or soccer? I don´t think Baseball Stadiums can be used in a World Cup. Can you provide photos?
> 
> was there so much stadium construction since 1994 or they just didn´t use many of the covered stadiums available back then?


Here's a couple of the stadiums you inquired about.







New Atlanta stadium



New Vikings stadium



University of Phoenix Stadium Glendale AZ.


----------



## AcesHigh

will101 said:


> Got a link for that? Links work better than shouting, anyway.


I only consider shouting when it´s the whole sentence in caps.

when I write only a few words in CAPS, it´s intonation to put emphasis on that word... I could put the word in *"bold"* but that is much more complicated than simply pressing the shift key with my little finger.

I will find a link,, may take some time.


----------



## bd popeye

AcesHigh said:


> FIFA *DEMANDED* roofing in all brazilian stadiums, and the requirements of % covered was INCREASED compared to S.Africa. It were not simply "recommendations".
> 
> again, some people here saying Brazil was useless in building the stadiums... well, if FIFA did not DEMANDED the roofs, the level of renovation and work on new stadiums would be MUCH SMALLER.


I know in San Diego when there is talk of a new stadium a portable roof has been mentioned so San Diego could host a WC match.


----------



## GunnerJacket

AcesHigh said:


> again, some people here saying Brazil was useless in building the stadiums... well, if FIFA did not DEMANDED the roofs, the level of renovation and work on new stadiums would be MUCH SMALLER.


a) Any comments by folks here or elsewhere are merely personal opinions. Feel free to disagree or debunk.

b) Requirements for roofing do not dictate style, costs or construction methodology. If the roofing requirement wasn't wanted locally and is only a problem for Brasilian construction then they should've built a bunch of cheaper, temporary roofs. Yet in all the press I've read about people (local or afar) griping about Brasil's progress or lack-thereof, nothing has indicated the blame lay in a requirement for roofs. Be proud of the beautiful structures you do have, learn your lessons from the mistakes that have been made and move on.

c) If FIFA demands roofing from US venues, then the US will have roofing on every venue.


----------



## will101

Kerrybai said:


> Even if they need 12 with roofs it will not be a problem.


I think that it would be a problem. None of the seven largest metro areas in the US would qualify.


----------



## GunnerJacket

will101 said:


> I think that it would be a problem. None of the seven largest metro areas in the US would qualify.


You could easily stretch tarps over the likes of MetLife, Sun Life and FedEx. Probably Levi's, as well. Gillette or LincFin would be an interesting reach, but surely doable. Miami wants a roof anyway and the Redskins snarky owner wants a new dome, so who knows what the future holds.

LA would be the big question. Does the Rose Bowl have seats now, because I know FIFA has gone away from bench seating?


----------



## will101

GunnerJacket said:


> c) If FIFA demands roofing from US venues, then the US will have roofing on every venue.


That's going to be a lot of money spent on temporary covers. I suspect that several of them will become tents for a few weeks.


----------



## AcesHigh

will101 said:


> I think that it would be a problem. None of the seven largest metro areas in the US would qualify.


the link you asked

"Cover for spectators
*A roof over all spectators is particularly desirable in cold, wet climates.* In those parts
of the world where relatively constant sunshine is normal, *the shade provided by a
roof should be made available to all spectators for at least a certain period of the game. *
It is possible that spectators will become reluctant to sit in freezing temperatures or
in sweltering humid conditions to watch sporting events held in stadiums. In an age
when our homes, workplaces, cars and many sporting and entertainment facilities are
comfortably heated and air conditioned, it seems likely that more spectators will ask
for similar conditions in their stadiums. 
There is already a trend towards building stadiums that can be completely covered
over by a retractable roof which may be left open whenever weather conditions make
it desirable to do so. 
The challenge with this kind of roof, even when it provides a substantial roof opening,
is that it is proving extremely difficult to maintain grass pitches in acceptable condition.
With the necessary supply of sunlight and wind (for ventilation) severely reduced by
the roof, it is almost impossible to keep the turf alive and well. 
An innovative solution has been achieved at the Gelredome Stadium in Arnhem
(the Netherlands) and Schalke’s stadium in Gelsenkirchen (Germany) where the entire
playing area slides out under one end of the stands to allow the grass to grow in an
open environment. It seems to be working well but it is expensive and may be beyond
the reach of most facilities"[/I]

"Press box and commentary positions 
The press box
The press box must be in a central position in the main grandstand where the players’
dressing rooms and the media facilities are situated. It should be centrally located 
on the halfway line, in a position that provides an unobstructed view of the field 
of play, without the possibility of interference from spectators. Ideally, the press box
should not extend beyond the 16m line towards the goals. *All working places in the
press box should be covered.* Media representatives should be allocated places with 
an excellent view of the entire playing area."

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/tou..._recommendations_and_requirements_en_8211.pdf


notice the parts in bold, where instead of desirable, FIFA uses the word SHOULD... 

specially about the press boxes... which actually occupy a large part of the stadium and FIFA demands that they should be under cover

those white desks on the left side in the photo below. This was the Confederations Cup. In the World Cup, the section occupied by media desks (which must be protected under a roof) is even larger.


----------



## will101

bd popeye said:


> ..and San Diego because of Qualcomm stadium or a new Charger stadium... In California there may be a restriction on roofs because of the ever present danger of a possible earthquakes..I think..


I keep wanting to say that they have a way of dealing with that for a temporary structure, but I'm not an engineer.


> And San Diego weather is just a little better than Los Angeles.


Which is kind of like saying Jennifer Lawrence is just a little bit prettier than Selena Gomez.


----------



## GunnerJacket

will101 said:


> Which is kind of like saying Jennifer Lawrence is just a little bit prettier than Selena Gomez.


Gee, I didn't know the weather in LA is that bad.




:cheers:


----------



## Guest

Beckham and co have to stop wasting their time and money in Miami. Buy Chivas off MLS and stay in LA if you need a big market team. Otherwise there are plenty of other places that would love your investment. 

*County commissioner opposes David Beckham's MLS stadium at downtown Miami slip*

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2014/06/county-commissioner-opposes-david-beckhams-mls-stadium-at-downtown-miami-slip.html


----------



## Guest

*Sacramento Republic FC sells out final Hughes stadium match*

This is the best drawing minor league team in the country, of any sport. Clearly a major league soccer city. The downsize to 8k Bonney Field feels almost disappointing. Team up with SacRep Becks! 













> The Sacramento Republic FC sold out its soccer match Saturday, which will be the team’s last at the 20,231-seat Hughes Stadium.
> The match kicks off at 7:30 p.m. with the Republic squaring off against Arizona United SC. Gates open at 6 p.m.
> The team will debut i ts 8,000-seat home turf Bonney Field on June 20 at Cal Expo when Republic FC plays the Colorado Rapids Reserves. Tickets to the first Bonney Field game go on sale June 12.
> Saturday’s game at Hughes is the third sold-out Republic game this year. A fourth game at Hughes was nearly sold out.
> Sacramento Republic FC is in its first season as an expansion franchise of USL PRO. The team has broken the minor-league record for attendance.
> The Republic is moving to Bonney Field because it is a proper sized soccer pitch on natural turf. Hughes Stadium is an artificial field and it is too narrow, as it was built for American football. To be able to move up to being a Major League Soccer team, which its owners said is their intent, the Republic needs to play on a regulation field.
> Even before it has played its first game at Bonney Field, the team has been considering expanding that venue, but that would occur next year at the earliest.


----------



## poguemahone

Is Bonney Field all temporary stands? They look it from the renders and images of construction.

Also where does the Monorail run to and from? Is it just a part of the fair site (or whatever it is) or is it part of a wider public transport system?


----------



## Hia-leah JDM

Yeah, I gotta say Beckham's stadium dilemma in Miami doesn't look too promising.


----------



## Cjones2451

5portsF4n said:


> *Sacramento Republic FC sells out final Hughes stadium match*
> 
> This is the best drawing minor league team in the country, of any sport. Clearly a major league soccer city. The downsize to 8k Bonney Field feels almost disappointing. Team up with SacRep Becks!
> 
> That is dedication, because the sight lines look like ass. With the running track and football markings, it must be almost impossible to see from that curved end zone seating.


----------



## carnifex2005

5portsF4n said:


> Beckham and co have to stop wasting their time and money in Miami. Buy Chivas off MLS and stay in LA if you need a big market team. Otherwise there are plenty of other places that would love your investment.
> 
> *County commissioner opposes David Beckham's MLS stadium at downtown Miami slip*
> 
> http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2014/06/county-commissioner-opposes-david-beckhams-mls-stadium-at-downtown-miami-slip.html


The thing is that his Miami franchise costs a reported $25 million. If he wanted to buy Chivas it would be a minimum of $70 million (since his franchise deal doesn't include the cities of Los Angeles or New York).


----------



## Guest

Cjones2451 said:


> That is dedication, because the sight lines look like ass. With the running track and football markings, it must be almost impossible to see from that curved end zone seating.


I've tried watching a game on YouTube, its almost impossible to watch even with the "best seat" in the house. I can't imagine what its like for the people that actually attend. From that perspective, the move to Bonney will be welcome. That mooted stadium expansion can't come soon enough. 



carnifex2005 said:


> The thing is that his Miami franchise costs a reported $25 million. If he wanted to buy Chivas it would be a minimum of $70 million (since his franchise deal doesn't include the cities of Los Angeles or New York).


Yeah I know that stuff, but Beckham wants to be in an iconic city, and MLS don't want to let Beckham go as an investor. Even MLS must see that Miami is proving to be very problematic. Confidence must be rock bottom at the moment. To say that MLS can't shift the goalposts would be to dismiss their track record. 

Unless Chivas is already sold, which is not out of the realm of possibility, its not crazy to envisage them allowing Beckham to buy into Chivas. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that will happen. But if Miami doesn't work out, Beckham doesn't have a major market open to him anymore.


----------



## Guest

I found this on BS:

Next to the Marlins site. 










Someone there also suggested they could play at Marlins stadium in the interim.


----------



## Guest

Gillette Stadium, Foxborough

Mexico 0 - 1 Portugal
Attendance: 56,292


----------



## IllumL8ker

They should have international friendlies (men, even if it isn't canada) at bc place too! We haven't had a single one yet.



















They would most definitely open the second deck for that if we get the right team(s).


----------



## will101

poguemahone said:


> Is Bonney Field all temporary stands? They look it from the renders and images of construction.


It's kind of halfway between temporary and permanent. When the team was created, no one know if it would be a success or not. So they planned for something sturdy, but could be dismantled without too much trouble. I suspect that some longer term upgrades are being studied right now.


> Also where does the Monorail run to and from? Is it just a part of the fair site (or whatever it is) or is it part of a wider public transport system?


It's just a loop around the CalExpo (California State Fair) grounds. If you go to Google maps, and type in *N 38 35.5 W 121 26.3* (spaces included), that will take you to the north end of where they are building Bonney Field. You can follow the monorail around in a bumpy loop, with a short spur into the barn.


----------



## Guest

*Usa 2-1 Nigeria*
Everbank Field, Jacksonville
52,033


----------



## Guest

*Spain 2-0 El Salvador*
FedEx Field, Washington DC
53,267


----------



## Guest

*England 0-0 Honduras*
Sun Life Stadium, Miami
45,479


----------



## Kerrybai

^ The England game was 0-0.


----------



## eMKay

Gotta say our team is looking pretty strong. Tough tough group but it's by far the best team we have ever had.


----------



## GunnerJacket

eMKay said:


> Gotta say our team is looking pretty strong. Tough tough group but it's by far the best team we have ever had.


Personally I think the squad that went to Korea/Japan was deeper. This squad is arguably more talented but there are some holes according to the system JK is trying to employ. I would guess that in another 2 years this could be the best US side to take the field, IF they secure some notable scoring threats. Dempsey won't be getting better and isn't the best option as a false #10 against stout defenses. Jozy can prove too static and reliant on his upper-body strength. 

Granted, though, quality strikers are a premium everywhere.


----------



## Melb_aviator

The US team still has a long way to go really. I can't see them progressing past the group stage, but funnier things have happened in sport.

Germany will likely be a huge challenge to compete with, but Portugal may struggle if Ronaldo is not fit. Ghana are the big unknown here though, as they can be anything on their day.


----------



## Guest

*Herald poll: Miami-Dade voters split over David Beckham’s waterfront MLS stadium*

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/06/09/4164302/herald-poll-miami-dade-voters.html#storylink=cpy



> David Beckham, who was in Miami over the weekend campaigning for a Major League Soccer stadium, may have to make return trips now that a new Miami Herald/el Nuevo Herald poll shows Miami-Dade County voters are evenly divided over the proposal.
> 
> By 45-43 percent, Miami-Dade voters said they were against the retired English footballer’s idea to build a 20,000-seat stadium on the downtown waterfront, the wide-ranging survey by Bendixen & Amandi International shows. That is essentially a tie, given the poll’s error margin of 4.3 percentage points.
> 
> The poll also asked respondents about other sports deals and about the county mayor’s administration.
> 
> Young voters are more likely than older ones to favor turning over the city of Miami’s deep-water Florida East Coast Railway boat slip and a portion of Museum Park to Beckham and his investors, with 54 percent of respondents between the ages of 18 and 29 backing the site, compared to 60 percent of voters 65 or older who say the opposite.
> 
> It’s older voters who are more likely to cast ballots, especially in midterm elections. Miami Beckham United is aiming to put a potential stadium deal before city voters in November’s election.
> 
> “These are numbers that should be a little bit troubling if you’re part of the Beckham group,” said Fernand Amandi, who conducted the poll of 400 registered voters for the newspapers last week.
> 
> Among those voters was Rebecca Kline, a 69-year-old retiree from Miami’s Upper Eastside, who said she is fine with having an MLS team and stadium — just not downtown.
> 
> “A great deal of effort was put into making that Museum Park, and making it visible from Biscayne Boulevard,” she said. “To put a soccer stadium where it would block probably 75 percent of that view would turn that park into what it was before: another Bicentennial Park that you didn’t know was there.”
> 
> A spokesman for Beckham’s group said the poll should have noted that the investors plan to pay for stadium construction mostly with private funds, and that they would also landscape newly filled land along the waterfront and connect it to a county-owned tract known as Parcel B that has long been promised as a park.
> 
> “Our plan will create a stadium and park that is compatible with Museum Park, protects public access to the waterfront, and further activates and expands Museum Park by 20 percent,” publicist Tadd Schwartz said in a statement. “We look forward to discussing our vision with the public over the coming months.”
> 
> Similarly, voters were split over a plan for the county to pay the Miami Dolphins for bringing major sporting events like the Super Bowl to Sun Life Stadium in exchange for team owner Stephen Ross privately financing a $400 million upgrade to the stadium.
> 
> Without an agreement yet on how much Miami-Dade would pay the Dolphins per event, supporters and opponents of the idea tied at 46 percent, according to the poll. The demographic divide was the opposite than with soccer, with 49 percent of Hispanics against the idea and 54 percent of non-Hispanic whites in favor.
> 
> In the only sports-related poll question for which financial details were available — regarding the county’s latest agreement with the Miami Heat — respondents opposed the deal by a wider margin.
> 
> Last week, Miami-Dade County commissioners voted 10-2 to extend the basketball team’s stay at AmericanAirlines Arena for an additional five years, through 2035, and increase the annual county subsidy to the Heat to $8.5 million from $6.4 million beginning in 2031. In return, the Heat will immediately begin to pay the county parks department $1 million a year.
> 
> The poll shows that voters — even when asked in the same week that the Heat began playing in the NBA Finals — are against the deal by 53-38 percent.
> 
> The Heat’s lobbyist, attorney Jorge Luis Lopez, called the poll question unfair because it did not spell out the team’s contention that, without a contract extension, it would consider relocating.
> 
> “We’ve seen in our own internal [polls], when you tell a more complete story, the community support keeping the Heat,” he said. Lopez declined to share his polling data.
> 
> County Mayor Carlos Gimenez appears more popular than the sports deals, all three of which he has either suggested or negotiated.
> 
> Fifty-three percent of voters called his tenure excellent or good, with 30 percent qualifying it as mediocre or poor. As has become typical during his administration, Gimenez, a Cuban-American Republican in a nonpartisan post, fared best among Hispanics and Republicans.
> 
> “People think I’m doing a good job — it doesn’t mean they agree with everything I do,” Gimenez said. “I don’t think they think I do things out of ill will but out of what I think is in the best interest of the county.”
> 
> But the poll revealed a potential weak spot for Gimenez: a perception that lobbyists and special interests have exerted too much influence in high-profile negotiations with the pro sports franchises and major contractors.
> 
> Only 27 percent of voters said Gimenez and his administration negotiated in the best interests of the county, compared to 55 percent who said the special interests are too strong. That negative perception included a majority of voters from all political party affiliations and ethnic backgrounds.
> 
> “What it suggests to me is that the mayor is potentially very vulnerable to a line of attack or a line of messaging that he’s too deep in the pocket of lobbyists,” pollster Amandi said.
> 
> Gimenez conceded that “there is truth” to lobbyists swarming County Hall when big contracts are in play — he used baggage-wrapping at Miami International Airport as an example — but he also said that the lobbyists overplay their importance to stay in business.
> 
> “In every decision I make, there’s a lobbyist involved on both sides,” said the mayor, who doesn’t face reelection until 2016. “But a lobbyist has no more influence on me than anybody else.”
> 
> One poll respondent argued that it’s the County Commission that has more to worry about than Gimenez when it comes to public backlash.
> 
> “I actually think he has done a good job,” said William Olson, a 70-year-old Democrat from Homestead. “It’s the County Commission that’s the problem. That’s where there’s too much lobbyist influence
> 
> Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/06/09/4164302/herald-poll-miami-dade-voters.html#storylink=cpy


----------



## will101

With that gloomy roof, it seems like the best time to watch the progress of the new stadium for the Quakes is early in the morning. This was a bit before sunrise:


----------



## Cjones2451

DId they lay down grass for this? If so did they keep in for the NER vs NYRB game?



5portsF4n said:


> Gillette Stadium, Foxborough
> 
> Mexico 0 - 1 Portugal
> Attendance: 56,292


----------



## Guest

Fairly certain Fieldturf has been used at Gillete for some time. Changing turf is not something you do on a whim, so both played on the same surface. 

Edit: New fieldturf relayed in April.


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

poguemahone said:


> Also where does the Monorail run to and from? Is it just a part of the fair site (or whatever it is) or is it part of a wider public transport system?


To add on to what will101 said, the monorail only runs during the state fair. It is just a fair attraction, but I suppose they could take the trains out of storage if they decide it could be of some benefit to Republic FC.


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

Earthquakes president Dave Kaval gives an interesting tour of the new stadium
http://www.sjearthquakes.com/video/2014/06/03/new-stadium-take-tour-quakes-prez


----------



## Cjones2451

5portsF4n said:


> Fairly certain Fieldturf has been used at Gillete for some time. Changing turf is not something you do on a whim, so both played on the same surface.
> 
> Edit: New fieldturf relayed in April.


But I know they have laid natural grass over turf for top Euro teams having games inm the US and Canada before, like in Seattle, Silverdome for the 1994 WC. I know the Whitecaps had to do it a Empire Field when ManCity was through a few years ago


----------



## Archbishop

Yes they laid grass on top of the turf for the friendly and took it off for the RBNY-NE game.


----------



## carnifex2005

Live stream of the new renders for the Orlando City stadium...






It looks very much like the new San Jose stadium but with 3 separate stands.


----------



## RMB2007

@FixtureWire: 



















https://twitter.com/FixtureWire

Safe standing area. 










https://twitter.com/JKepnerWFTV


----------



## Cjones2451

Capacity?? I heard him say largest in MLS, so over 25K


----------



## RMB2007

^^ I've updated my post which includes more info.


----------



## carnifex2005

Here's a short version of the Orlando City presentation...


----------



## Benn

Looks great, fun to hear they are going with a standing terrace. Definitely nice to see the last few breaking away from the old AEG generic horseshoe trend and doing something a little bit more distinctive.


----------



## slipperydog

Vikings will announce their alliance with Relevent Sports on Wed. to pursue a MLS franchise for their new stadium.


----------



## Kerrybai

Nice idea to go with the standing area. I think most MLS supporters groups stand so this makes a lot of sense. I hope Portland will go ahead and introduce something similar, then they can get their desperately needed increase in capacity.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Cjones2451 said:


> Capacity?? I heard him say largest in MLS, so over 25K


Tweet says 19500 to start, expandable to 25000


----------



## will101

Kerrybai said:


> Nice idea to go with the standing area. I think most MLS supporters groups stand so this makes a lot of sense. I hope Portland will go ahead and introduce something similar, then they can get their desperately needed increase in capacity.


Portland really needs to think about a new home. The place is 88 years old, and parts of it remind me of a dungeon.


----------



## Kerrybai

will101 said:


> Portland really needs to think about a new home. The place is 88 years old, and parts of it remind me of a dungeon.


I think they may be stuck there until the lease ends? Which would be something in the 2030's... I may be misinformed about that.


----------



## master_klon

The supporter section in Portland will become safe standing in time for next season. I will be gutted when Timbers move out because in my opinion it is the best stadium in MLS, but I may just be biased because I support them.


----------



## Kerrybai

master_klon said:


> The supporter section in Portland will become safe standing in time for next season. I will be gutted when Timbers move out because in my opinion it is the best stadium in MLS, but I may just be biased because I support them.


I know there were talks of that some time ago but where did you hear it will become a reality?


----------



## desertpunk

Latest David Beckham stadium proposal just got shot down by Miami city council...




> *Museum Park, boat slip off the table for MLS stadium*
> 
> In a major setback for David Beckham and his investors, the city of Miami said Tuesday it is not interested in having the retired English footballer and his group build a Major League Soccer stadium on what is now a deep-water boat slip and part of Museum Park
> 
> Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/#storylink=cpy


----------



## RMB2007

> *Miami takes downtown Museum Park, boat slip off the table for David Beckham’s MLS stadium
> 
> In a major setback for David Beckham and his investors, the city of Miami said Tuesday it is not interested in having the retired English footballer and his group build a Major League Soccer stadium on what is now a deep-water boat slip and part of Museum Park.
> 
> “The slip is off the table,” Mayor Tomás Regalado said.*
> 
> The mayor and City Manager Daniel Alfonso nixed the downtown site in a meeting Tuesday morning with John Alschuler, Beckham’s real-estate adviser, that came two days after Beckham wrapped up his latest campaign trip to South Florida.
> 
> Alschuler said Beckham’s group plans to take some time to consider its remaining options. It’s the second blow for the investors, who had initially targeted the southwest corner of PortMiami as a stadium site, only to face political resistance from neighboring Royal Caribbean Cruises and the Miami-Dade County Commission.
> 
> “Our team’s going to pause,” Alschuler said. “They’re going to consider all alternatives and look forward to constructive engagement.”
> 
> Before the city told the Beckham group of its decision, Alschuler and his team offered to pay Miami about $2 million a year as rent of sorts for filling the city-owned water basin and taking over a portion of the waterfront Museum Park, which is set to open Saturday. An earlier rent number Beckham’s group had floated was much lower, at around $500,000. The $2 million figure would have been double what the Miami Heat recently agreed to begin paying the county each year to use the neighboring AmericanAirlines Arena.
> 
> While the city called the latest Beckham offer “generous,” Regalado and Alfonso said it is not in Miami’s best interest to have a 20,000-seat stadium on Biscayne Boulevard.
> 
> “Given the uniqueness of this site, we agreed that this was just not the right place,” Alfonso said.
> 
> Regalado said numerous downtown residents, who are not known for being politically engaged, were loud in their opposition to the location.
> 
> “They have called, they have come, they have been very active,” he said. “We listened.”
> 
> The mayor at first embraced the idea to fill the nine-acre boat slip, which was proposed by County Mayor Carlos Gimenez. A stadium would have taken up the portion of the slip closest to the road, and a significant chunk of Museum Park. In return, Beckham’s group would have landscaped the newly created land along the water and connected it to the county-owned property behind AmericanAirlines Arena, known as Parcel B and long promised as a public park.
> 
> But there was swift push back. Condo residents worried about traffic congestion and losing their green space and bay views. High-profile architects and planners protested that Museum Park was intended to be an urban oasis — not a patch of dirt or water hole meant to be developed.
> 
> The park is scheduled to open Saturday. The Eagle, a U.S. Coast Guard training tall ship, will be docked at the basin, formally known as the Florida East Coast Railway slip.
> 
> Regalado said he hopes Beckham’s group finds another home for its stadium in Miami. “Everybody here loves soccer,” he said.
> 
> Though it would have been up to the city commission to sign off on a deal and put it before voters, several commissioners said Regalado’s administration did not involve them in Tuesday’s decision.
> 
> “I have to admit that I’m surprised that I wasn’t consulted on any aspects of the deal, because I think there were other considerations that weren’t ever really fleshed out,” Commissioner Francis Suarez said. “Obviously, this was something that was kind of thrown on our lap, and I think the time line for any sort of real constructive dialogue was very short.”
> 
> The commission, which meets Thursday, could in theory overrule Regalado and direct the city manager to re-engage with Beckham’s group over the site, but that appears unlikely. Commissioner Marc Sarnoff, who represents the downtown district, said he told Beckham in person Saturday that he could not support the location.
> 
> “I told him I support soccer in Miami. I supported soccer at the port — I still do,” Sarnoff said. “I’m pleased that the FEC [slip] is off the table. Now, what we need to do as a government is ensure that we look for alternate sites for Beckham to have a soccer stadium in Miami.”
> 
> *The site he and Regalado said they suggested: next to the Miami Marlins’ ballpark in Little Havana.*


http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/06/10/4169888/miami-takes-downtown-museum-park.html


----------



## KeanoManu

It's like Miami don't want the team in their city.

Maybe Beckham should reconsider and take a look at other markets. If he/they at least have some alternatives they could put more pressure on the city to not decline all the good spots. Beckham and his friends clearly wawnt to be in Downtown while the city clearly don't want them there.

"Give us a spot in Downtown or we'll move to..."


----------



## slipperydog

Vegas


----------



## weava

RMB2007 said:


> @FixtureWire:
> 
> Safe standing area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/JKepnerWFTV


um, this won't be the only US stadium with standing only areas...


----------



## Lumbergo

Really liking the new Orlando city stadium!!!!


In regards to safe standing area - awesome! also I'm sure he meant the first SSS to have it - not us stadiums in general.


----------



## Kerrybai

weava said:


> um, this won't be the only US stadium with standing only areas...


He didn't say standing area, he said safe standing. Assuming he meant the European interpretation then it refers to this.










The picture's you presented looked like party areas as opposed to assigned standing terraces. He should really be more clear though as the statement is open to interpretation.


----------



## Lumbergo

KeanoManu said:


> It's like Miami don't want the team in their city. Maybe Beckham should reconsider and take a look at other markets. If he/they at least have some alternatives they could put more pressure on the city to not decline all the good spots. Beckham and his friends clearly wawnt to be in Downtown while the city clearly don't want them there. "Give us a spot in Downtown or we'll move to..."


 I still think they should take another look at the Miami marine stadium site.









This was a fan render made many years ago - Obviously a MLS stadium would need to be larger. Keep the original stand as it's a historic and unique piece of architecture and build a new stands around it right in the water. The historic stand is in the process of securing funds to refurbish it anyways. Not to mention the view from there is amazing. 





































Obviously access could be improved if needed. Just a thought 

I can't recall where exactly but there was also another downtown area that was under consideration of I'm not mistaken - it was just north of I -395 I believe. I wonder if that's off the table as well. I think building in little Havana by the Marlins would be a mistake...


----------



## Guest

1. Miami could have already got a stadium approved, if they werent hellbent on making it happen in downtown Miami. The idea that its a failed market because of these rejections is absurd. They just need to be more realistic about whats acceptable. If that happens to be adjacent to Marlins Park, then thats what it will have to be. 

2. Completely underwhelmed by Orlando. Another open ended stadium. The early renders of an enclosed stadium were more promising. That said, if the expansion covers that end, and puts a roof over it, then long term it could be nice. 

3. It seems that the Vikings are stepping up their efforts. They should win it, if we're being realistic.


----------



## Guest

Minnesota Financial Titans Clash over New Professional Soccer Franchise



> Two big names in the business world have clashed over bringing a Major League Soccer (MLS) franchise to Minneapolis.
> Vikings Owner Zygi Wilf and former UnitedHealth CEO Dr. Bill McGuire are now competing to bring an MLS franchise here, after what sources tell us was a less-than-amicable breakdown in negotiations between the two men.
> McGuire owns the North American Soccer League Minnesota United FC, which plays at the National Sports Center in Blaine. Wilf owns the Vikings and has exclusive rights to bring an MLS franchise into the new Vikings stadium for five years. Sources say he and McGuire could not agree on revenue sharing and that talks broke off.
> Sources say McGuire then teamed up with the Pohlad family, which owns the Minnesota Twins, to put together a bid for an MLS franchise against Wilf's proposal.
> According to sources, McGuire's group would like to build an outdoor soccer stadium right next to Target Field at a location known as the Farmers Market site. There is no price tag on the cost of the stadium yet, but sources say it might be designed similar to the MLS stadium in Kansas City and seat between 15,000 and 20,000 people.
> Wilf's exclusive rights to the MLS franchise exist only for the new Vikings stadium location. If McGuire builds an outdoor stadium, Wilf would not be able to stop an MLS franchise from moving into the new stadium.
> Minnesota soccer fans actually formed a group a few years ago called MLS4MN, which has been pushing for the MLS to put a franchise in their state. But most of those fans don't want that potential team playing in the new Vikings stadium.
> "Football stadiums as hosts of MLS games tend to have problems, and there's also an aura of NFL owners having difficulty being successful in MLS. It's not insurmountable, but that's something that we'd be concerned about," MLS4MN member David Laidig said.
> Most soccer fans are concerned the cavernous new stadium would leave more than 40,000 seats empty during MLS games -- not exactly the atmosphere they're looking for. They would strongly prefer a new, outdoor, soccer-specific stadium to provide the best fan experience.
> There's also the issue of whether an MLS team could survive in Minnesota, regardless of where it played. Denver is the only smaller media market with teams in all five of the largest professional leagues -- and Denver doesn't have a collegiate athletic draw like the University of Minnesota's Golden Gophers.
> Laidig argues the U.S. soccer season only significantly overlaps with Major League Baseball's season.
> But John Spry, a finance professor at the University of St. Thomas, said sports and entertainment dollars are already stretched thin in the Twin Cities. He also said the economic impact of an MLS team is likely much smaller than you might think.
> "The economic magnitude of the revenue of a Major League Soccer team in your city is less than opening a new Target store," Spry said.
> MLS teams only play 17 regular season home games each year, and average single-game attendance is about 18,500 fans. That means attendance for an MLS team's entire season is equivalent to about four-and-a-half NFL games.
> For those wary of even preliminary talk of yet another taxpayer-financed stadium, there seems to be very little appetite among politicians for more public money going toward a new soccer stadium. Also, MLS stadiums cost a fraction of what NFL stadiums do. Soccer-specific stadiums have recently been built in the U.S. for less than $100 million.
> The owners of the Vikings are holding a press conference on Wednesday afternoon, where they'll announce a partnership with a soccer marketing giant. That company will help them pursue their bid for the MLS, but there's no exact timeline on talks with the MLS moving forward at this time.


http://kstp.com/news/stories/s3470334.shtml


----------



## Guest

Minnesota Financial Titans Clash over New Professional Soccer Franchise

http://kstp.com/news/stories/s3470334.shtml 

If you watch the video in that link, you'd think that McGuire commissioned it. Complete shutdown of sharing Vikings stadium without providing any context, like that Seattle/Vancouver have made it work, or that the most recent team in Atlanta is doing the same thing. 



> Two big names in the business world have clashed over bringing a Major League Soccer (MLS) franchise to Minneapolis.
> Vikings Owner Zygi Wilf and former UnitedHealth CEO Dr. Bill McGuire are now competing to bring an MLS franchise here, after what sources tell us was a less-than-amicable breakdown in negotiations between the two men.
> McGuire owns the North American Soccer League Minnesota United FC, which plays at the National Sports Center in Blaine. Wilf owns the Vikings and has exclusive rights to bring an MLS franchise into the new Vikings stadium for five years. Sources say he and McGuire could not agree on revenue sharing and that talks broke off.
> Sources say McGuire then teamed up with the Pohlad family, which owns the Minnesota Twins, to put together a bid for an MLS franchise against Wilf's proposal.
> According to sources, McGuire's group would like to build an outdoor soccer stadium right next to Target Field at a location known as the Farmers Market site. There is no price tag on the cost of the stadium yet, but sources say it might be designed similar to the MLS stadium in Kansas City and seat between 15,000 and 20,000 people.
> Wilf's exclusive rights to the MLS franchise exist only for the new Vikings stadium location. If McGuire builds an outdoor stadium, Wilf would not be able to stop an MLS franchise from moving into the new stadium.
> Minnesota soccer fans actually formed a group a few years ago called MLS4MN, which has been pushing for the MLS to put a franchise in their state. But most of those fans don't want that potential team playing in the new Vikings stadium.
> "Football stadiums as hosts of MLS games tend to have problems, and there's also an aura of NFL owners having difficulty being successful in MLS. It's not insurmountable, but that's something that we'd be concerned about," MLS4MN member David Laidig said.
> Most soccer fans are concerned the cavernous new stadium would leave more than 40,000 seats empty during MLS games -- not exactly the atmosphere they're looking for. They would strongly prefer a new, outdoor, soccer-specific stadium to provide the best fan experience.
> There's also the issue of whether an MLS team could survive in Minnesota, regardless of where it played. Denver is the only smaller media market with teams in all five of the largest professional leagues -- and Denver doesn't have a collegiate athletic draw like the University of Minnesota's Golden Gophers.
> Laidig argues the U.S. soccer season only significantly overlaps with Major League Baseball's season.
> But John Spry, a finance professor at the University of St. Thomas, said sports and entertainment dollars are already stretched thin in the Twin Cities. He also said the economic impact of an MLS team is likely much smaller than you might think.
> "The economic magnitude of the revenue of a Major League Soccer team in your city is less than opening a new Target store," Spry said.
> MLS teams only play 17 regular season home games each year, and average single-game attendance is about 18,500 fans. That means attendance for an MLS team's entire season is equivalent to about four-and-a-half NFL games.
> For those wary of even preliminary talk of yet another taxpayer-financed stadium, there seems to be very little appetite among politicians for more public money going toward a new soccer stadium. Also, MLS stadiums cost a fraction of what NFL stadiums do. Soccer-specific stadiums have recently been built in the U.S. for less than $100 million.
> The owners of the Vikings are holding a press conference on Wednesday afternoon, where they'll announce a partnership with a soccer marketing giant. That company will help them pursue their bid for the MLS, but there's no exact timeline on talks with the MLS moving forward at this time.


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> 2. Completely underwhelmed by Orlando. Another open ended stadium. The early renders of an enclosed stadium were more promising. That said, if the expansion covers that end, and puts a roof over it, then long term it could be nice.


I think it's considerably plain but I think I'll like it more than the San Jose version. Not a simple bowl, per se.

As to the open end I don't mind that because it makes for easier expansions in the future, and in this case means the existing stands are that much bigger. (As opposed to spreading the 19.5k seats around all 4 sides.)

I wish they hadn't dropped the "loudest stadium in MLS" line, Not only might that prove a tall order but there's little to the particular design to support the assertion. Simply having a roof doesn't = awesome sound amplification!

Regardless, good luck Orlando and hopefully this will prove another great addition for the league.


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> Minnesota Financial Titans Clash over New Professional Soccer Franchise
> 
> http://kstp.com/news/stories/s3470334.shtml
> 
> If you watch the video in that link, you'd think that McGuire commissioned it. Complete shutdown of sharing Vikings stadium without providing any context, like that Seattle/Vancouver have made it work, or that the most recent team in Atlanta is doing the same thing.


Have there been any pictures demonstrating how the new Vikings Stadium will cover/hide the upper levels for MLS matches? My big fear with that approach is that this particular stadium design is less conducive to the lowered ceiling approach used in Vancouver/planned for ATL.


----------



## bd popeye

GunnerJacket said:


> Have there been any pictures demonstrating how the new Vikings Stadium will cover/hide the upper levels for MLS matches? My big fear with that approach is that this particular stadium design is less conducive to the lowered ceiling approach used in Vancouver/planned for ATL.


This is all I could find. I posted this last week. I can see how the upper levels may have tarps over them...if need be.



New Vikings stadium


----------



## carnifex2005

KeanoManu said:


> It's like Miami don't want the team in their city.
> 
> Maybe Beckham should reconsider and take a look at other markets. If he/they at least have some alternatives they could put more pressure on the city to not decline all the good spots. Beckham and his friends clearly wawnt to be in Downtown while the city clearly don't want them there.
> 
> "Give us a spot in Downtown or we'll move to..."


MLS specifically wants Miami downtown. Looks like the expansion bid would be dead without that. Here are some comments today from Don Garber, the MLS commissioner...

Luke Wileman @LukeWileman
Don Garber on Miami stadium situation: "It puts us back to square one. We cannot go to Miami unless we have a strong downtown location."

Luke Wileman @LukeWileman
Don Garber: "if we can't find the right place to play it would be suicide to go to Miami where we have failed before."

In the meantime, the Miami Hearald has a "Help us find a location for the soccer site" suggestion page...

http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/06/10/4170058/help-us-find-a-location-for-the.html


----------



## will101

I realize that this is kind of off topic, but I have no idea where else to ask this. Are the pre-Cup concert and festivities being shown on TV here in the US? If so, when and where?


----------



## pig

will101 said:


> I realize that this is kind of off topic, but I have no idea where else to ask this. Are the pre-Cup concert and festivities being shown on TV here in the US? If so, when and where?


Univision at 2pm ET. ESPN would rather show golf.

Edit: also on ESPN3.


----------



## will101

pig said:


> Univision at 2pm ET. ESPN would rather show golf.
> 
> Edit: also on ESPN3.


You mean tomorrow afternoon? And is that Eastern or Pacific time?


----------



## pig

will101 said:


> You mean tomorrow afternoon? And is that Eastern or Pacific time?


Yeah, tomorrow. 2pm Eastern Time.


----------



## poguemahone

Hahaha holy shit someone posted this on an Aussie football forum. What a crackpot, the author is Ann Coulter.



> I've held off on writing about soccer for a decade — or about the length of the average soccer game — so as not to offend anyone. But enough is enough. Any growing interest in soccer can only be a sign of the nation's moral decay.
> 
> • Individual achievement is not a big factor in soccer. In a real sport, players fumble passes, throw bricks and drop fly balls — all in front of a crowd. When baseball players strike out, they're standing alone at the plate. But there's also individual glory in home runs, touchdowns and slam-dunks.
> 
> In soccer, the blame is dispersed and almost no one scores anyway. There are no heroes, no losers, no accountability, and no child's fragile self-esteem is bruised. There's a reason perpetually alarmed women are called "soccer moms," not "football moms."
> 
> Do they even have MVPs in soccer? Everyone just runs up and down the field and, every once in a while, a ball accidentally goes in. That's when we're supposed to go wild. I'm already asleep.
> 
> • Liberal moms like soccer because it's a sport in which athletic talent finds so little expression that girls can play with boys. No serious sport is co-ed, even at the kindergarten level.
> 
> • No other "sport" ends in as many scoreless ties as soccer. This was an actual marquee sign by the freeway in Long Beach, California, about a World Cup game last week: "2nd period, 11 minutes left, score: 0:0." Two hours later, another World Cup game was on the same screen: "1st period, 8 minutes left, score: 0:0." If Michael Jackson had treated his chronic insomnia with a tape of Argentina vs. Brazil instead of Propofol, he'd still be alive, although bored.
> 
> Even in football, by which I mean football, there are very few scoreless ties — and it's a lot harder to score when a half-dozen 300-pound bruisers are trying to crush you.
> 
> • The prospect of either personal humiliation or major injury is required to count as a sport. Most sports are sublimated warfare. As Lady Thatcher reportedly said after Germany had beaten England in some major soccer game: Don't worry. After all, twice in this century we beat them at their national game.
> 
> Baseball and basketball present a constant threat of personal disgrace. In hockey, there are three or four fights a game — and it's not a stroll on beach to be on ice with a puck flying around at 100 miles per hour. After a football game, ambulances carry off the wounded. After a soccer game, every player gets a ribbon and a juice box.
> 
> • You can't use your hands in soccer. (Thus eliminating the danger of having to catch a fly ball.) What sets man apart from the lesser beasts, besides a soul, is that we have opposable thumbs. Our hands can hold things. Here's a great idea: Let's create a game where you're not allowed to use them!
> 
> • I resent the force-fed aspect of soccer. The same people trying to push soccer on Americans are the ones demanding that we love HBO's "Girls," light-rail, Beyonce and Hillary Clinton. The number of New York Times articles claiming soccer is "catching on" is exceeded only by the ones pretending women's basketball is fascinating.
> 
> I note that we don't have to be endlessly told how exciting football is.
> 
> • It's foreign. In fact, that's the precise reason the Times is constantly hectoring Americans to love soccer. One group of sports fans with whom soccer is not "catching on" at all, is African-Americans. They remain distinctly unimpressed by the fact that the French like it.
> 
> • Soccer is like the metric system, which liberals also adore because it's European. Naturally, the metric system emerged from the French Revolution, during the brief intervals when they weren't committing mass murder by guillotine.
> 
> Despite being subjected to Chinese-style brainwashing in the public schools to use centimeters and Celsius, ask any American for the temperature, and he'll say something like "70 degrees." Ask how far Boston is from New York City, he'll say it's about 200 miles.
> 
> Liberals get angry and tell us that the metric system is more "rational" than the measurements everyone understands. This is ridiculous. An inch is the width of a man's thumb, a foot the length of his foot, a yard the length of his belt. That's easy to visualize. How do you visualize 147.2 centimeters?
> 
> • Soccer is not "catching on." Headlines this week proclaimed "Record U.S. ratings for World Cup," and we had to hear — again about the "growing popularity of soccer in the United States."
> 
> The USA-Portugal game was the blockbuster match, garnering 18.2 million viewers on ESPN. This beat the second-most watched soccer game ever: The 1999 Women's World Cup final (USA vs. China) on ABC. (In soccer, the women's games are as thrilling as the men's.)
> 
> Run-of-the-mill, regular-season Sunday Night Football games average more than 20 million viewers; NFL playoff games get 30 to 40 million viewers; and this year's Super Bowl had 111.5 million viewers.
> 
> Remember when the media tried to foist British soccer star David Beckham and his permanently camera-ready wife on us a few years ago? Their arrival in America was heralded with 24-7 news coverage. That lasted about two days. Ratings tanked. No one cared.
> 
> If more "Americans" are watching soccer today, it's only because of the demographic switch effected by Teddy Kennedy's 1965 immigration law. I promise you: No American whose great-grandfather was born here is watching soccer. One can only hope that, in addition to learning English, these new Americans will drop their soccer fetish with time.


http://www.clarionledger.com/story/...est-soccer-sign-nations-moral-decay/11372137/

Lol and on her website she even has a list of reporters who are 'allowed' to interview her again, complete mong.


----------



## poguemahone

You know you're doing something right though, when nut jobs like her start taking notice and feel the need to try and put it down.


----------



## slipperydog

It's creepy that she would actually take the time to write something like that. Like who the f*ck asked you...crazy ass woman. I'm positive she's actually murdered someone.


----------



## poguemahone

slipperydog said:


> It's creepy that she would actually take the time to write something like that. Like who the f*ck asked you...crazy ass woman. I'm positive she's actually murdered someone.


I actually had to look up some of her other ramblings to make sure it wasn't a satirical article.


----------



## poguemahone

Decent article from the BBC, too long to quote.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/28024752


----------



## will101

poguemahone said:


> I actually had to look up some of her other ramblings to make sure it wasn't a satirical article.


Even the extreme right wing of US politics is embarrassed by her. But no one has been able to come up with a good enough excuse to have her locked up.


----------



## will101

poguemahone said:


> Decent article from the BBC, too long to quote.
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/28024752


By the rules of SkyscraperCity, you're not supposed to quote the whole article. Just do the first little bit, like this:


> World Cup 2014: The defining moment for football in the US?
> By Ben Smith BBC Sport in Brazil
> 
> Soccer - the sport the rest of the world calls a religion - is no longer a minority interest in the United States.
> 
> It is no longer, as one comedian put it, something mums pick their 12-year-old daughters up from.
> 
> United States soccer - or football depending on which side of the Atlantic you hail from - is on the brink of showing the world it has finally come of age.
> 
> The key World Cup Group G match against Germany on Thursday may prove to be a defining moment, not only for the fortunes of the US national team but for an increasingly engaged public.
> 
> The United States' two previous World Cup matches have broken records.
> 
> The victory over Ghana attracted the biggest US television audience for a football match - 16m people. The draw with Portugal smashed that record with an average of 24.7m viewers.
> 
> And the match against Germany in Recife is expected to surpass even that.


----------



## Kerrybai

will101 said:


> Even the extreme right wing of US politics is embarrassed by her. But no one has been able to come up with a good enough excuse to have her locked up.


She must surely know that people like her and ramblings like that damage her own cause? She makes the right wing look like a bunch of crack pots, and that's coming from someone who is conservative... anyway that's completely off topic.

But one point I'd like to pick up on. The superbowl has an audience of 111 million in the US. Do we think we World Cup final involving the US would get anywhere near that number?


----------



## Lakeland

Kerrybai said:


> But one point I'd like to pick up on. The superbowl has an audience of 111 million in the US. Do we think we World Cup final involving the US would get anywhere near that number?


It would probably come close. In the US we love sports drama and the national team (where they're considered underdogs) getting that far would be the ultimate story line. On top of that it falls in a perfect time slot, the Final is on Sunday and its a 3PM start on ABC. Add to that ESPN/SportsCenter for a full week of pre-game coverage and it would be huge.


----------



## matthemod

"It's foreign. In fact, that's the precise reason the Times is constantly hectoring Americans to love soccer. One group of sports fans with whom soccer is not "catching on" at all, is African-Americans. They remain distinctly unimpressed by the fact that the French like it."

I wonder if she understands the irony of this, considering both American Football and Baseball are offshoots from British sports...


----------



## will101

C'mon, people. Ann Coulter is bats**t crazy, and nothing she says should ever be worried about.


----------



## GunnerJacket

poguemahone said:


> You know you're doing something right though, when nut jobs like her start taking notice and feel the need to try and put it down.


I truly think this is at play here. As the event has picked up in attention the vitriol from the anti-soccer crowd has gotten larger, clearly recognizing that pushing a button on a hot topic = ratings/hits. One would assume the US is awash in soccer zealots trying to forcibly convert the masses via jihad, but I've seen only 2 articles this whole summer with a _"Why you should love soccer!"_ vein, but easily 2 dozen from those complaining about the behavior and attitudes of soccer fans. 

Just let us be, folks. You don't complain about our low scoring game and we'll stop being publicly unimpressed by guys driving in circles.

Oh and on behalf of the US and sanity in general, I'd like to apologize for Ann Coulter


----------



## bd popeye

matthemod said:


> " One group of sports fans with whom soccer is not "catching on" at all, is African-Americans. They remain distinctly unimpressed by the fact that the French like it."


:hi:I'm guilty of this. I personally know zero African-American soccer fans. Zero.

Oh I want team USA to succeed and of course the MLS to succeed..I've stated this several times in this thread.I am a stadium geek is why I follow this thread..My interest in stadiums is because I've been a sports fan for 53 of my 60+ years on this planet.

As far as Ann Coulter she's just picking on something that she does not like. 



Kerrybai said:


> But one point I'd like to pick up on. The superbowl has an audience of 111 million in the US. Do we think we World Cup final involving the US would get anywhere near that number?


No.. but 60+ million is possible. And this is based on nothing but my opinion & very good Tv ratings numbers so far in the WC. Now IF the US was in the championship game. You may see numbers that are off the chart in my opinion. US Nationalism would run amok.


----------



## GunnerJacket

bd popeye said:


> :hi:I'm guilty of this.


And a buckeye fan, to boot. Man, you're just sinking lower and lower, aren't you?














:banana:


----------



## weava

bd popeye said:


> :hi:I'm guilty of this. I personally know zero African-American soccer fans. Zero.


If you look at the pictures from the US watch parties, they are 95% skinny, young, white people. (i.e. not traditional sports fans)

here is a pic from the KC watch party, this is a city that is 30% black yet there are almost no blacks there. I know I've seen a study showing blacks have been losing interest in baseball at a pretty fast rate over the last decade too. (I think they said part of the reason was due to college baseball only giving partial scholarships while football/basketball give full rides so they feel more pressure from family to pursue those sports)


----------



## bd popeye

weava said:


> If you look at the pictures from the US watch parties, they are 95% skinny, young, white people. (i.e. not traditional sports fans)


As for the WC watch party in Chicago with an Black population of 33% about 1,000,000+. Almost no Black faces in the crowd where several thousand people attended..I'm at work and cannot post pictures..it's blocked.



weava said:


> here is a pic from the KC watch party, this is a city that is 30% black yet there are almost no blacks there. I know I've seen a study showing blacks have been losing interest in baseball at a pretty fast rate over the last decade too. (I think they said part of the reason was due to college baseball only giving partial scholarships while football/basketball give full rides so they feel more pressure from family to pursue those sports)


Also about 20-30 years ago MLB scouts stopped recruiting in Black High schools in big cities. Part of the reason was fear..the other part was that the best athletes are playing basketball and football exclusively....not baseball..

When I was a kid 50+ years ago bar none MLB was the #1 sport in the Black community. Boxing was #2. 

In my opinion it boils down to Black bigotry. Yea I posted that. Many young Blacks look at soccer & baseball as a "white sport" with Latinos mixed in....I've stated this previously in this forum.

Will those feelings change? In my opinion not until black inner city kids embrace soccer because they see "one of their own" playing the game at a successful level.

This is just my opinion. I do not desire to argue with anyone about this. This thread is about SSS in the US and Canada correct?...

I say DC United and the Revs need new stadiums. The sooner the better.


----------



## Kerrybai

^ Well the US team does have some good black players, but by one of their own do you mean a black star from an inner city background? From what I understand the black players on the US team are from privileged backgrounds or born abroad ( Germany )

It's obvious most black Americans will follow other sports while their athletes continue to pursue them over soccer.


----------



## weava

bd popeye said:


> When I was a kid 50+ years ago bar none MLB was the #1 sport in the Black community. Boxing was #2.
> 
> In my opinion it boils down to Black bigotry. Yea I posted that. Many young Blacks look at soccer & baseball as a "white sport" with Latinos mixed in....I've stated this previously in this forum.
> *
> Will those feelings change? In my opinion not until black inner city kids embrace soccer because they see "one of their own" playing the game at a successful level.*


I don't think it would take many years to change the black perception of those sports. In many cities the suburban blacks are starting to outnumber inner city blacks so they will probably be playing on those suburban "white sports" teams too. 
one story I have related to this topic: but my half brother who is half black just told me last night he wants to go to a game and see Derek Jeter play before he retires because as a kid he looked up to him as a role model as he was half black too so seeing one of their own could have an impact on many kids.


----------



## slipperydog

Don't think a discussion about race is appropriate here. A batshit crazy woman wrote a stupid column designed to be inflammatory. Let's not validate her. Just let it go.


----------



## bd popeye

slipperydog said:


> Don't think a discussion about race is appropriate here. A batshit crazy woman wrote a stupid column designed to be inflammatory. Let's not validate her. Just let it go.


And I agree..well.. kinda sorta.. I don't think she's crazy...

Like I sated;



> This thread is about SSS in the US and Canada correct?...
> 
> I say DC United and the Revs need new stadiums. The sooner the better.


 OK? OK!!


----------



## Kerrybai

This might be a silly question but I don't fully understand how MLS ownership works so here it goes.

Say Beckham wants to build beside the Marlins stadium, do the guys in charge of the MLS have to say ok to this or is he free to do what he wants with the franchise?


----------



## bd popeye

Kerrybai said:


> This might be a silly question but I don't fully understand how MLS ownership works so here it goes.
> 
> Say Beckham wants to build beside the Marlins stadium, do the guys in charge of the MLS have to say ok to this or is he free to do what he wants with the franchise?


I do not know how that sort of situation works with the MLS. I know in the NFL the league front office has a big say about stadiums.


----------



## carnifex2005

Kerrybai said:


> This might be a silly question but I don't fully understand how MLS ownership works so here it goes.
> 
> Say Beckham wants to build beside the Marlins stadium, do the guys in charge of the MLS have to say ok to this or is he free to do what he wants with the franchise?


MLS has to say ok to it since they haven't officially awarded him a franchise. MLS have already said no to that location, so I'm guessing Beckham is looking elsewhere. The problem is that the local politicians want to have him there so Beckham can pay the lions share of a 40k stadium that can also house the Miami Hurricanes too. MLS will definitely say no to that. I'm thinking that MLS in Miami is getting close to dead.


----------



## Lupin III

will101 said:


> Even the extreme right wing of US politics is embarrassed by her. But no one has been able to come up with a good enough excuse to have her locked up.


She is extremely stupid and aparently many journalists think so too.

Heres some of her more stupid comments:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJGi110hIzQ

I liked the one about Canada taking part in the Viet


----------



## Lupin III

will101 said:


> Even the extreme right wing of US politics is embarrassed by her. But no one has been able to come up with a good enough excuse to have her locked up.


She is extremely stupid and aparently many journalists think so too.

Heres some of her more stupid comments:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJGi110hIzQ

I liked the one about Canada taking part in the Vietnam War.


----------



## will101

Unless It's 6:30 in the morning, it's hard to tell if anything has changed in much of the new Quakes stadium. Haven't heard a thing about possible installation of seats yet.


----------



## GunnerJacket

weava said:


> If you look at the pictures from the US watch parties, they are 95% skinny, young, white people. (i.e. not traditional sports fans)


Well, my hairline removes any doubt about my age, but I can work on the other traits. So starting today I promise to eat more and...



bd popeye said:


> As for the WC watch party in Chicago with an Black population of 33% about 1,000,000+. Almost no Black faces in the crowd where several thousand people attended...


... then it's off to the tanning booth! :banana:

I keed, I keed.

- - - - - -



Kerrybai said:


> This might be a silly question but I don't fully understand how MLS ownership works so here it goes.
> 
> Say Beckham wants to build beside the Marlins stadium, do the guys in charge of the MLS have to say ok to this or is he free to do what he wants with the franchise?


MLS remains a single entity model, with each franchise "owner" technically being an investor in the league with sole franchise rights to their respective market. This means the League still retains a modicum of control in the business management standards of each team, up to and including veto power on venue contracts/terms. 

Normally the league is not heavy handed to this degree, provided the owner demonstrates that they'll have an optimum business model. In the case of Miami, however, where the stadium situation is unknown and the market has a historical aspect to overcome MLS has said they won't move forward with the actual team until they're certain of the stadium terms for the team. My reading of that is their not overly concerned with being in downtown as much as they're afraid of being so removed from the fans of the community that it becomes another Chicago, or a revisit to the Fusion/Ft. Lauderdale scenario.

I liken it to a store or restaurant chain that wants to move into an emerging market but is being very cautious about finding the right location first. Only this is a high profile celebrity at the helm and all their actions have been in the public eye.


----------



## Lakeland

"Atlanta Phoenix" wins fan vote for Atlanta's MLS expansion team name
http://www.mlssoccer.com/sideline/n...ing-choice-among-fans-mls-expansion-team-name



> In a poll conducted over the weekend, the Business Chronicle offered up a whole host of names for the club, brought to you by readers, fans and marketers alike.
> 
> *Other top choices, according to the poll? Premier Atlanta (more than 15 percent) and Atlanta Blaze (nearly 12 percent).
> 
> "Phoenix" — referring to a bird, not the city in Arizona — would fall in line with the bird-named theme of Atlanta's Falcons (NFL) and Hawks (NBA).*
> 
> If you think the fans' opinion on Atlanta's future team name isn't important, think again. Owner Arthur Blank stated emphatically at the introductory press conference that the city's fans will be consulted and have some say in choosing.





> what's the phoenix's connection to atlanta?
> 
> In mythology, a phoenix is a bird that bursts into flames and is reborn from the ashes. During Sherman's March, his scorched earth tactics left Atlanta burnt to the ground, but the city rebuilt and became one of the major cities of the South.


I like it. Much better than having another City or FC named team.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Just FYI, that poll was taken in late April and it's not a guarantee that will be the name.


----------



## Lakeland

GunnerJacket said:


> Just FYI, that poll was taken in late April and it's not a guarantee that will be the name.


I understand, that's why it says fan vote. Which one do you prefer Phoenix, Blaze or Premier?


----------



## ReNaHtEiM

Lupin III said:


> She is extremely stupid and aparently many journalists think so too.
> 
> 
> 
> Heres some of her more stupid comments:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJGi110hIzQ
> 
> 
> 
> I liked the one about Canada taking part in the Vietnam War.



Republicans, ehhh.

Abraham Lincoln would rotate in his grave if he had to see this.

So what exactly qualifies her to be on TV shows regularly?


----------



## GunnerJacket

I couldn't do Blaze and Premier would be weak IMO. Phoenix is appealing but I'd prefer Legion or Locomotive, myself.


----------



## GunnerJacket

ReNaHtEiM said:


> So what exactly qualifies her to be on TV shows regularly?


Same as any TV preacher or community organizer... the ability to lure masses to her events.


----------



## JJG

ReNaHtEiM said:


> Republicans, ehhh.
> 
> Abraham Lincoln would rotate in his grave if he had to see this.
> 
> So what exactly qualifies her to be on TV shows regularly?


She's a professional troll, honestly...


----------



## poguemahone

When is the Quakes stadium meant to be finished by?


----------



## will101

poguemahone said:


> When is the Quakes stadium meant to be finished by?


It's scheduled to open next spring. But they'll probably get about 98% of the work finished by October or November, so they won't have to worry about weather delays.


----------



## will101

ReNaHtEiM said:


> Republicans, ehhh.
> 
> Abraham Lincoln would rotate in his grave if he had to see this.
> 
> So what exactly qualifies her to be on TV shows regularly?


President Lincoln has been spinning in response to the antics of his old party for more than 60 years.

Coulter is often on Fox News, where they can put her on some panel, and claim that they are giving viewpoints from both ends of the spectrum. In reality, this would be both parts of the conservative end of things, which puts her way, way out there.


----------



## poguemahone

will101 said:


> It's scheduled to open next spring. But they'll probably get about 98% of the work finished by October or November, so they won't have to worry about weather delays.


Cheers.

Do you know how much it has cost for construction of it?


----------



## will101

poguemahone said:


> Cheers.
> 
> Do you know how much it has cost for construction of it?


The original plan spoke of a $65 million structure, but that has crept up a bit, and now it is described as "over $70 million". What with the Niners spending about 18 times as much about four miles up the road, nobody really seems to pay much attention to the exact amount here.


----------



## master_klon

will101 said:


> Unless It's 6:30 in the morning, it's hard to tell if anything has changed in much of the new Quakes stadium. Haven't heard a thing about possible installation of seats yet.


Main building is pretty much done, the players and staff will be moving into it soon. The new road running parallel to the main building is currently being developed. At the moment there's a lot of work on the terraces on the scoreboard bar end, as well as on the concourse buildings and VIP/press box. 

Regarding the stands, they are installing hand rails alongside the staircases. I have no clue, but as there is no rush I think it will still be a few months before seats are installed. Maybe they will install a few rows though in the meantime for testing and for the stadium tours.


----------



## Guest

With the stadium not opening until next season I suppose there's no rush.


----------



## Kerrybai

Kake terminates contract at AC Mlan leaving him free to sign for MLS side Orlando City [SSN]

Exciting times for the MLS.


----------



## will101

The Galaxy vs. Earthquakes match on Saturday night had an official attendance of 50,006.

Good gravy, the Quakes really suck this year.


----------



## ObiUbamba

Kerrybai said:


> Kake terminates contract at AC Mlan leaving him free to sign for MLS side Orlando City [SSN]
> 
> Exciting times for the MLS.


I don't see how it is exciting for an old, washed up, former star to finish his career in America. On the pitch, he is not nearly his old self, and will only be a big name player to bring people to the stadium. If the MLS wants to improve as a league, they need to attract exciting young talent, or players in their prime (26 to 29). Players should want to come to the MLS to better their game, not to get a massive paycheck to finish their career.


----------



## SounderBruce

ObiUbamba said:


> I don't see how it is exciting for an old, washed up, former star to finish his career in America. On the pitch, he is not nearly his old self, and will only be a big name player to bring people to the stadium. If the MLS wants to improve as a league, they need to attract exciting young talent, or players in their prime (26 to 29). Players should want to come to the MLS to better their game, not to get a massive paycheck to finish their career.


Kaka's signing isn't one for the sake of having a good team. It's all about publicity. Orlando, especially its Brazilian population, will come out to see him and hopefully stay for the club.


----------



## RFSK

It's official!


----------



## slipperydog

RFSK said:


> It's official!



New clubs making a big splash. Has there been any talk of who Atlanta will go after?


----------



## RFSK

slipperydog said:


> New clubs making a big splash. Has there been any talk of who Atlanta will go after?


You'll have to wait two years buddy


----------



## MarkJF

SounderBruce said:


> Kaka's signing isn't one for the sake of having a good team. It's all about publicity. Orlando, especially its Brazilian population, will come out to see him and hopefully stay for the club.


He is the same age as David Villa but Villa would have many EPL clubs interested in him if he'd decided to stay in Europe, none would want Kaka, good looking kid, I hope he can shift a lot of shirts.............


----------



## Bori427

SounderBruce said:


> Kaka's signing isn't one for the sake of having a good team. It's all about publicity. Orlando, especially its Brazilian population, will come out to see him and hopefully stay for the club.


I don't think the brazilian population in Orlando is big at all. The puerto rican population on the other hand...


----------



## slipperydog

Two Rhode Island cities propose moving the Revs to RI. Revs president reportedly "receptive" to the idea.



> _PROVIDENCE, R.I. (WPRI) – With all eyes on the World Cup, officials in two Rhode Island cities said Tuesday they’ve discussed the possibility of bringing the New England Revolution soccer franchise to the state.
> 
> A spokeswoman for Providence Mayor Angel Taveras confirmed to WPRI.com that *the city’s economic development director “has had preliminary discussions with officials from the New England Revolution” while Central Falls Mayor James Diossa said he spoke personally to team president Brian Bilello about a move.*
> 
> “I’ve heard they were interested from moving from Gillette [Stadium] and I made a call to the president and expressed the interest of the city in bringing them here,” Diossa told WPRI.com.
> 
> Diossa, who won a state championship as a soccer player at Central Falls High School, said Bilello was “receptive” to the idea, but made no commitments. He said he hopes to meet with team officials for further discussion.
> 
> A spokesperson for the Revolution did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
> 
> So why would the Revolution want to make a move?
> 
> The majority of Major League Soccer’s 19 franchises play in soccer-specific stadiums that were built or renovated with MLS ownership involvement, according to the league’s website. The Revolution, which plays on the same field as the New England Patriots and is owned by Robert and Jonathan Kraft, is one of four teams that play in a football stadium.
> 
> A Boston Magazine article published earlier this year labeled the Krafts the “worst owners in the league” for allowing the Revolution to “toil in obscurity.” The article went on to criticize the team’s poor attendance numbers at Gillette Stadium, arguing that the stadium’s size creates a “lifeless atmosphere.”
> 
> The team has also been a limited success. After reaching the MLS finals four times in six seasons between 2002 and 2007, the Revolution hasn’t finished above third place in the Eastern Conference since. The team is currently sitting in third place. Its average attendance of 15,355 is well-below the league average.
> 
> The Kraft family has long said the Revolution should move into a different stadium, but nothing has ever come to fruition. The Boston Globe reported earlier this month that Boston has been considered a potential landing spot for the team. Last week, the Revolution played a U.S. Open Cup match Brown University.
> 
> Diossa said he believes the Krafts should consider Rhode Island because of the diversity in and around the Blackstone Valley region. He said the area has a large Portuguese population as well South Americans, Central Americans and Africans who enjoy soccer.
> 
> He’s not wrong. Sports Illustrated’s Richard Deitsch reported that *Providence was the ninth-largest metered market in the country for those watching the United States-Germany World Cup match last week.*
> 
> The MLS is gaining in popularity as well. Over the next several years, the league will add teams in New York City, Orlando, Atlanta and Miami. In May, it announced an eight-year television deal with ESPN, Fox Sports and Univision that could be worth roughly $90 million per year. All Revolution games are televised on Comcast SportsNet.
> 
> Neither Central Falls nor Providence currently have a stadium that could house the Revolution and professional stadiums are considered massive development projects.
> 
> But Diossa said he believes the Revolution would be a hit in Rhode Island.
> 
> “I think it would be fascinating because this could become a venue for not just the Revolution, but where international teams can come play,” Diossa said_.


http://wpri.com/2014/07/01/officials-want-new-england-revolution-to-move-to-ri/


----------



## RFSK

After Howards Post match interview yesterday, he called the sport Football, and not soccer? Is that common for players on the USMNT?

And does anyone have figures of how many people watched the the match in Us yesterday?


----------



## tinyslam

They go back and forth. Remember Howard plays for Everton in England so most of the time he probably calls it football


----------



## slipperydog

RFSK said:


> And does anyone have figures of how many people watched the the match in Us yesterday?


It's estimated at 30 million.

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2014/07/02/usa-belgium-world-cup-tv-ratings-viewers


----------



## RFSK

tinyslam said:


> They go back and forth. Remember Howard plays for Everton in England so most of the time he probably calls it football


Iknow that, but just wondering what the players call the sport between themselves, cause he was speaking to an american journalist, and he said something like it was an wonderful game of football...


----------



## krudmonk

RFSK said:


> It's official!


I can't believe Jesus sold him.


----------



## redspork02

^^^ wait till he realizes hes not in Miami Florida! ^^^ lol


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> New clubs making a big splash. Has there been any talk of who Atlanta will go after?


Some friends and I were playing sponsored ball in Atlanta when MLS first started and held their open tryouts. (In Orlando, of all places!) Proud to say I was invited back for day 2! My body is a wee bit different since then, but if the team is looking for that all crucial sub to come on and go nuts for that last 30 seconds, then I'm more than ready to be their man! :colgate: :banana:

Heck, I'd even play for free long islands! :cheers:


----------



## carnifex2005

Here's how Orlando City fans greeted Kaka today...


----------



## Topher51

slipperydog said:


> Two Rhode Island cities propose moving the Revs to RI. Revs president reportedly "receptive" to the idea.
> 
> 
> 
> http://wpri.com/2014/07/01/officials-want-new-england-revolution-to-move-to-ri/


Boy, that sounds familair...
http://boston.sportsthenandnow.com/2010/06/24/remember-when-the-patriots-almost-moved-to-hartford/


----------



## will101

shhyvoodoo said:


> Last but not least, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE MLS allow these teams go negotiate and find their own kit manufacturers. Adidas has ZERO innovation when it comes to their designs. They just slap those wack a** three stripes on EVERYTHING!!


At least the Adidas ugly is different than the Nike ugly. In a perfect world both would be banned from kit contracts.


----------



## shhyvoodoo

will101 said:


> At least the Adidas ugly is different than the Nike ugly. In a perfect world both would be banned from kit contracts.


I totally agree with this Will!!!


----------



## GunnerJacket

bd popeye said:


> Very true about MLB...check these figures per team.


Holy hard balls, Batman! I knew the spectrum was pretty vast but that disparity is insane. One wonders if it's going to cause bigger issues regarding MLB's luxury tax structure in the future. I imagine it's a similar tale for the NBA and NHL, as well. 

How the devil can the Mariners and Rangers command 9 figures per season? And $320M per for the Dodgers?!! Was there really that much competition for those rights?


----------



## Lakeland

GunnerJacket said:


> Holy hard balls, Batman! I knew the spectrum was pretty vast but that disparity is insane. One wonders if it's going to cause bigger issues regarding MLB's luxury tax structure in the future. I imagine it's a similar tale for the NBA and NHL, as well.
> 
> How the devil can the Mariners and Rangers command 9 figures per season? And $320M per for the Dodgers?!! Was there really that much competition for those rights?


Looking at the Mariners and Rangers TV deals, it explains why it was no big deal for them to sign Cano and Choo in the off season. Same thing with the Angels and the new Trout deal after they had previously signed Pujols and Hamilton to monster contracts. I know the Tigers are banking on a new TV contract in 2017 making it possible to withstand a $164 million payroll in Detroit. TV money means everything in baseball. 

It's not that bad in the NBA and NHL. Lakers are the only team with over $100 million a year deal.


> #1 Toronto Maple Leafs
> Current rights fee: $41 million
> Local TV broadcasters: Sportsnet, TSN, Leafs TV
> #2 New York Rangers
> Current rights fee: $35 million Local TV broadcaster: MSG Network
> #3 Montreal Canadiens
> Current rights fee: $33 million Local TV broadcaster: Reseau des Sport
> #4 Detroit Red Wings
> Current rights fee: $30 million Local TV broadcaster: Fox Sports Detroit
> #5 Vancouver Canucks
> Current rights fee: $25 million Local TV broadcasters: Sportsnet Pacific, Sportsnet One
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/christinasettimi/2013/11/25/nhls-richest-local-television-deals/





> #1 Los Angeles Lakers
> Current Rights Fee: $122 million
> Local TV Broadcaster(s): Time Warner Cable Sportsnet, Time Warner Cable Deportes
> #2 Houston Rockets
> Current Rights Fee: $45 million
> Local TV Broadcaster: CSN Houston
> #3 New York Knicks
> Current Rights Fee: $37 million
> Local TV Broadcaster: MSG Network
> #4 Boston Celtics
> Current Rights Fee: $36 million
> Local TV Broadcaster: CSN New England
> #5 Detroit Pistons
> Current Rights Fee: $35 million
> Local TV Broadcaster: Fox Sports Detroit
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/christinasettimi/2014/01/22/the-nbas-richest-local-television-deals/


----------



## rantanamo

GunnerJacket said:


> Holy hard balls, Batman! I knew the spectrum was pretty vast but that disparity is insane. One wonders if it's going to cause bigger issues regarding MLB's luxury tax structure in the future. I imagine it's a similar tale for the NBA and NHL, as well.
> 
> How the devil can the Mariners and Rangers command 9 figures per season? And $320M per for the Dodgers?!! Was there really that much competition for those rights?


Don't know about the dates on the contracts, except the Rangers and Dodgers are pretty recent renewals. I'm sure the Yankees will top this when their deal is renewed.

The Rangers are shown in a large portion of the Texas market, some LA, NM and Oklahoma. There aren't two teams(now do some of you get why DFW could support two teams?)Some of the teams in the NE have a similar immediate market size, but most don't have such a large residual population. Even if the Phillies controlled Philly, Eastern PA and Delaware, they run into markets from other teams pretty quickly on all four sides. The Rangers don't. Until you start getting Astros influence, they dominate baseball in the South Central US. They do all of this even as a historically bad team. Imagine if they could string together 10 years of good to great.

Like the Cowboys and Rangers, FC Dallas is in a similar geographic situation.


----------



## GunnerJacket

^^ yeah, but it's baseball! No one outside of LA and the northeast is supposed to care that much about baseball!


----------



## will101

GunnerJacket said:


> Holy hard balls, Batman! I knew the spectrum was pretty vast but that disparity is insane. One wonders if it's going to cause bigger issues regarding MLB's luxury tax structure in the future. I imagine it's a similar tale for the NBA and NHL, as well.
> 
> How the devil can the Mariners and Rangers command 9 figures per season? And $320M per for the Dodgers?!! Was there really that much competition for those rights?


There is a big disparity, but the chart is hiding some of the details. For example, the Giants' ownership of 35% of CSNBA pushes them over the $100 mill mark, and exactly how far over is a dim dark family secret. The hidden money in this is a function of the team's ownership stake, the number of households in the area and the percentage of subscribers. Just at a glance, I think the Mets and Red Sox make a *lot* more money than people realize.


----------



## Archbishop

Of course you'll pay a lot for a 162 game season.


----------



## weava

GunnerJacket said:


> ^^ yeah, but it's baseball! No one outside of LA and the northeast is supposed to care that much about baseball!


baseball is freakin huge here in Missouri.

I know STL and KC were the #1 and #2 markets in TV ratings for one of the recent all-star games and STL is one of the few places in the country where football isn't the most popular sport.


----------



## ObiUbamba

5portsF4n said:


> I dont know what anyone sees in NASL. USL Pro is the way to go.


I really don't see the appeal in the USL basically being a "farm league" to the MLS. I like how the NASL is totally independent of the MLS and is able to develop itself without having to give way to another league. The NASL has continued to improve its level of play and attendances have increased for the majority of teams. While I'm not the biggest fan of the current commissioner, I still have great faith in the NASL becoming a great alternative to the MLS. The league is attracting more and more players from overseas, which will continue to help the local talent.


----------



## Lupin III

ObiUbamba said:


> I really don't see the appeal in the USL basically being a "farm league" to the MLS. I like how the NASL is totally independent of the MLS and is able to develop itself without having to give way to another league. The NASL has continued to improve its level of play and attendances have increased for the majority of teams. While I'm not the biggest fan of the current commissioner, I still have great faith in the NASL becoming a great alternative to the MLS. The league is attracting more and more players from overseas, which will continue to help the local talent.


Both USL and NASL are really important, well unless you want to live in a Galapagos way and only watch the best football (and then theres no need of MLS and you can watch EPL instead).

But if you want success in World Cup you need to be able to develop players from a pool bigger than 500 domestic players from MLS, 200 from NASL and 500 from USL, you need many more, US has 300 million people Brazil 200 million but Brazil has 13 million registered players. Thats the difference. Personally I think US football would do much better if eachof the 50 states had a pro league with 10-22 clubs depending on size and then a US championsleague instead. But admitted if you only see sport as a Galapagos as NFL, MLS, NBA and NHL then NASL and USL is of no use.


----------



## mamangvilla

excuse me, but i'm lost here..... what exactly is "gelapagos way"?


----------



## GunnerJacket

mamangvilla said:


> excuse me, but i'm lost here..... what exactly is "gelapagos way"?


By that he means to evolve in isolation, as life on the islands. If I'm reading it correctly.



Lupin III said:


> But if you want success in World Cup you need to be able to develop players from a pool bigger than 500 domestic players from MLS, 200 from NASL and 500 from USL, you need many more, US has 300 million people Brazil 200 million but Brazil has 13 million registered players. Thats the difference. Personally I think US football would do much better if eachof the 50 states had a pro league with 10-22 clubs depending on size and then a US championsleague instead. But admitted if you only see sport as a Galapagos as NFL, MLS, NBA and NHL then NASL and USL is of no use.


The US has a fairly advanced youth system with millions of registered players. The problem in the States is that those kids begin to play high school and collegiate ball instead of maintaining a more demanding training regimen through a year round academy or dedicated league. Hopefully the current lawsuits involving the governing body of our collegiate sports will begin the seismic shift in our system and will see the prevalence of scholastic sports give way to sporting academies. Not only would that be better for our sporting development but it would also be better for our universities, as well.


----------



## mamangvilla

GunnerJacket said:


> By that he means to evolve in isolation, as life on the islands. If I'm reading it correctly.


Thank you



> The US has a fairly advanced youth system with millions of registered players. The problem in the States is that those kids begin to play high school and collegiate ball instead of maintaining a more demanding training regimen through a year round academy or dedicated league. Hopefully the current lawsuits involving the governing body of our collegiate sports will begin the seismic shift in our system and will see the prevalence of scholastic sports give way to sporting academies. Not only would that be better for our sporting development but it would also be better for our universities, as well.


I think soccer development in the US is going on the right track with more and more schools and college takin soccer more seriously and growing attention in pro soccer from the media. It won't happen overnight but I'm fairly confident that in 15 or 20 years USA will be a major player in international soccer.
As for the lawsuits involving the governing body of our collegiate sports, I'm not sure it will have any dramatic effect at all, especially because college football and basketball are just too big of a business to fail.


----------



## GunnerJacket

mamangvilla said:


> As for the lawsuits involving the governing body of our collegiate sports, I'm not sure it will have any dramatic effect at all, especially because college football and basketball are just too big of a business to fail.


If that proves true, and I expect you're right, then we're pursuing those in precisely the wrong manner.


----------



## Otto Racecar

GunnerJacket said:


> By that he means to evolve in isolation, as life on the islands. If I'm reading it correctly.
> 
> The US has a fairly advanced youth system with millions of registered players. The problem in the States is that those kids begin to play high school and collegiate ball instead of maintaining a more demanding training regimen through a year round academy or dedicated league. Hopefully the current lawsuits involving the governing body of our collegiate sports will begin the seismic shift in our system and will see the prevalence of scholastic sports give way to sporting academies. Not only would that be better for our sporting development but it would also be better for our universities, as well.


Aren't most if not all the MLS academies year round? I guess I was under the impression they were.


----------



## ObiUbamba

mamangvilla said:


> Thank you
> 
> 
> 
> I think soccer development in the US is going on the right track with more and more schools and college takin soccer more seriously and growing attention in pro soccer from the media. It won't happen overnight but I'm fairly confident that in 15 or 20 years USA will be a major player in international soccer.
> As for the lawsuits involving the governing body of our collegiate sports, I'm not sure it will have any dramatic effect at all, especially because college football and basketball are just too big of a business to fail.


Soccer will never improve with the current college system. The MLS academies need to develop and improve so that the best players go through their systems at a younger age (10 to 16) instead of playing amateur college until they turn 22. College is not a good way to develop players and until the developmental academies and teams can get players at a younger age, the standard of our youth will not get much better.


----------



## Lakeland

ObiUbamba said:


> Soccer will never improve with the current college system. The MLS academies need to develop and improve so that the best players go through their systems at a younger age (10 to 16) instead of playing amateur college until they turn 22. College is not a good way to develop players and until the developmental academies and teams can get players at a younger age, the standard of our youth will not get much better.


I agree.

Here's an interesting post on college soccer and MLS.


> College soccer has been flogged as a hindrance to the USMNT for far too long. Soccer's like reading: if you can't do it by 18 there ain't nothing a college can do to help you. The NCAA's practice and game restrictions are an increasingly small issue since a lot of top-flight prospects either skip college entirely or leave after a year or two.
> 
> They can do this now because there are people willing to pay them to play. NCAA structure is less of a problem than the fact that there were few (or no) alternatives. MLS is gradually changing this. They keep adding teams, and now there's a push towards having USL PRO affiliate reserve teams.
> 
> So, yeah, in a world where a small number of schools can go do something innovative without having to get it past Indiana State, there is the possibility of revamping a portion of college soccer to make more sense in the larger context. One way to do this is to ignore the NCAA altogether. BYU's team plays in the PDL, which is roughly the fourth tier of soccer in the country. They have to go to class and keep on track to graduate; they are otherwise completely free to do whatever they want to soccer their best soccer.
> 
> Zoom out a bit. Chicago's currently playing a kid named Harrison Shipp, who was a homegrown signing for them. (MLS now has a rule that kids you developed in your academy for at least a year can be signed without going through the draft.) He spent a year at ND before signing for MLS. There's a kid at Stanford everyone's hype about who the Sounders will scoop up in another year.
> 
> It would make sense to formalize these relations, to take a number of colleges who are open to the idea and make them extensions of these MLS teams' academies. The NCAA could allow this; if they don't the colleges can just go do it on their own, like BYU. This will help fix the current problem with college soccer: it's got the brands but it doesn't have the level of play to make it attractive. You might have something if Washington and Ohio State and Northwestern were local affiliates for MLS teams.
> 
> This is probably too weird to fit in the NCAA even in the upcoming autonomy era, but there's no reason every sport has to be sanctioned by Mark Emmert. Sometimes NCAA sports are just dumb. Don't get me started on baseball.
> http://mgoblog.com/content/mailbag-brandon-job-security-basketball-redshirts-residual-soccer-stuff


----------



## GunnerJacket

Otto Racecar said:


> Aren't most if not all the MLS academies year round? I guess I was under the impression they were.


We need a lot more than simply the MLS academies. We need independent ones across the country in as many cities as possible. Places like Germany and Brazil have local systems designed to facilitate the access to quality coaching and regular play. While the US has a lot of kids playing, most of them are only doing so at 2-3 times per week with a varying level of coaching. I'd argue that even with the advancements we've made a large percentage of youth coaches are volunteer dads with minimal experience of knowledge.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Meanwhile, Atlanta's MLS team benefitting from World Cup fever:



> The franchise, which will begin play in 2017, has received 12,700 pledges and 4,430 Founder’s Club members as of Tuesday.


So assuming everyone who's pledged (including yours truly) buys the amount they indicated then Atlanta already has nearly 13,000 season ticket holders for 2017!


----------



## slipperydog

vadin said:


> My 11 year old son was invited to practice with an academy team last spring and the experience was not a good one.
> 
> My wife dropped him off, so I came a half hour after the practice started to check it out. The area they were practicing was fenced off, and I walked up to the fence to watch. After a few minute one of the coaches started walking towards me. I thought he was going to welcome me, but without even introducing himself tells me no one is allowed to watch the practice I have to leave. I tell him I'm the father of one of the new kids invited to practice and he says I have to go to the park lot. Wow, this was new to me.
> 
> I go to the parking lot and wait by my car and I could hear coaches screaming all practice long. When it's over, I ask my son how it was and the only thing he says is "intense". When I ask him what he means he tells me that every time they made any mistake coaches yelled at them. Another kid who was trying out like him made some bad passes during one of the drills and the coach kept calling him an idiot each time. I guess that's why they didn't want parents watching practices.
> 
> The director sent me an email the next day asking my son to come back again and I said thanks but no thanks.
> 
> My son loves the game, but that type of coaching would suck any enjoyment out of him and I'd probably punch the coach in the mouth if he called my son an idiot. I'm not sure if all academies are like this, but I hope not. It's definitely not for everyone.


Those coaches are clueless. In Germany, and many of the most successful academies around the world, they make it a point to create a positive atmosphere where kids aren't scolded and yelled at. Really all that does is scare kids into thinking they have to play it safe, and they lose their creative spark. At the developmental level, kids can't be afraid to make mistakes. Even at Barcelona, they allow parents to watch practice, but they're not allowed to correct, only offer positive reinforcement.


----------



## Kerrybai

vadin said:


> My 11 year old son was invited to practice with an academy team last spring and the experience was not a good one.
> 
> My wife dropped him off, so I came a half hour after the practice started to check it out. The area they were practicing was fenced off, and I walked up to the fence to watch. After a few minute one of the coaches started walking towards me. I thought he was going to welcome me, but without even introducing himself tells me no one is allowed to watch the practice I have to leave. I tell him I'm the father of one of the new kids invited to practice and he says I have to go to the park lot. Wow, this was new to me.
> 
> I go to the parking lot and wait by my car and I could hear coaches screaming all practice long. When it's over, I ask my son how it was and the only thing he says is "intense". When I ask him what he means he tells me that every time they made any mistake coaches yelled at them. Another kid who was trying out like him made some bad passes during one of the drills and the coach kept calling him an idiot each time. I guess that's why they didn't want parents watching practices.
> 
> The director sent me an email the next day asking my son to come back again and I said thanks but no thanks.
> 
> My son loves the game, but that type of coaching would suck any enjoyment out of him and I'd probably punch the coach in the mouth if he called my son an idiot. I'm not sure if all academies are like this, but I hope not. It's definitely not for everyone.


Sorry mate but wherever you sent your son sounds horrible, I don't know of any academy in Europe where they would act like that. You should follow up and make a complaint. Academies first and foremost should foster a happy experience for players to grow. Your experience is certainly not the norm.


----------



## flashman

Marvellous to read all this care and concern and hugs and high fives about acadamies and kids. Been through it all with my kids but it's got Sweet FA to do with stadiums and arenas.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Additional perspective: My daughter was doing 8 hours per week for gymnastics at age 8, and anyone who's kid has made it to collegiate level gymnastics said flat out that hefty travel is involved because the facilities and coaches for that aren't found at every street corner. Same goes with the uppermost levels of any sport or craft. In our case she burned out, which is common, but no one regrets the pursuit because every choice was made at the time with her support and enthusiasm. 

_(Come to think of it when we allowed ourselves delusional talk of Olympic visions it could've been for Rio games. After reading about things down there now I'd be a wee bit worried as a parent.) _


----------



## Yellow Fever

lets get back to the topic of soccer stadiums, shall we?


----------



## SounderBruce

Seattle Sounders vs. Portland Timbers, in front of 64,207 people at CenturyLink Field.






The sunset was also really great


----------



## slipperydog

Soccer will never be big in America tho...


----------



## BoulderGrad

slipperydog said:


> Soccer will never be big in America tho...


----------



## Lupin III

MarkJF said:


> True. My kid (16) is good, he hopes to make *semi-pro* in England. As well as school, he plays for a junior team, training one night a week. He's attached to a semi-pro club and will enter their U18 team this coming season, for this club he trains Tues night, Thursday night and Saturday morning under pro-coaching, all 2-3 hour sessions.
> 
> There is huge difference between players who understand the game and those that don't and there are no short cuts to obtain that knowledge.


You could also see this during the World Cup, African teams had a lot of stars, but you could see in their play that many of the players has played on the street in poverty and plays for themselves and clearly lacks tactics, while germany wins were you can see the team as a whole won.


----------



## mckeenan

slipperydog said:


> Soccer will never be big in America tho...


What a sight! I love that ground!


----------



## will101

*Quakes announce PetersenDean as New Stadium solar partner*

From the Quakes:











> SAN JOSE, Calif. – The San Jose Earthquakes announced today a founding partnership with Northern California-based PetersenDean, which will bring solar energy to the club’s new stadium. The long-term multi-million dollar deal makes PetersenDean the official solar and roofing partner of the Earthquakes and will feature a prominent solar installation at the new stadium. The installation will be located at the South end of the stadium in the VIP Parking Lot.
> 
> “We are excited to introduce PetersenDean as a New Stadium Founding Partner,” said Earthquakes president Dave Kaval. “The Earthquakes are committed to building a first-class venue with a sustainable and economic energy source. PetersenDean is a great fit because of their local ties and industry leading position.”
> 
> Among the key components of the agreement is a solar installation in the stadium’s VIP parking lot. With a peak capacity of 220kW, the system will generate enough power annually to offset all regular season game-day usage. The 882 solar panel array will sit atop a state-of-the-art carport structure, which will provide shade for 94-parked vehicles. PetersenDean will also have significant in-stadium presence with marquee signage, a solar panel display in the Epicenter Fan Zone, and an interactive solar energy monitoring system.
> 
> “Having grown up in San Jose and being a lifelong Earthquakes fan, I am delighted that PetersenDean was chosen to construct the large solar array that will in part power the stadium. I am also thrilled to be part of the original group of founding partners supporting professional soccer here in the Silicon Valley,” said owner Jim Petersen.


The article is here.


----------



## WesTexas

Thats cool. I have often wondered why all stadiums and arenas don't have solar panels on their exposed roof areas?


----------



## will101

WesTexas said:


> Thats cool. I have often wondered why all stadiums and arenas don't have solar panels on their exposed roof areas?


That's because solar power is satanic, indicative of communism, shows support for terrorists, hurts baby ducks, and leads to rampant health care and world peace. That cannot be allowed.


----------



## Topher51

will101 said:


> That's because solar power is satanic, indicative of communism, shows support for terrorists, hurts baby ducks, and leads to rampant health care and world peace. That cannot be allowed.


Seconded. That is valuable real estate that would be better suited for coal fired power plants...

Seriously though, outside of the southwest, there aren't a lot of areas where enough solar power can be generated to make that kind of capital investment worth it. It's far too cloudy in the Pacific Northwest and most of the Midwest and Northeast to justify that. California, Arizona, and Texas, however, are in the sweet spot for solar power.


----------



## ReNaHtEiM

According to your argumentation there shouldn't be any solar panels in Europe outside of Spain/Portugal. I can tell you that's wrong. 
hno:


----------



## dl3000

will101 said:


> That's because solar power is satanic, indicative of communism, shows support for terrorists, hurts baby ducks, and leads to rampant health care and world peace. That cannot be allowed.


Perfect, only forgot to mention that it kills jobs.


----------



## mamangvilla

will101 said:


> That's because solar power is satanic, indicative of communism, shows support for terrorists, hurts baby ducks, and leads to rampant health care and world peace. That cannot be allowed.


I know your'e being sarcastic (and it's hilarious), but are the opponents to solar power i the US really that bad??


----------



## KingmanIII

dl3000 said:


> Perfect, only forgot to mention that it kills jobs.


----------



## will101

Topher51 said:


> Seriously though, outside of the southwest, there aren't a lot of areas where enough solar power can be generated to make that kind of capital investment worth it.


Oh, it's always worth it. Especially when you are talking about lots of flat roof and/or parking lot space. The only real question is how long before the panels pay for themselves, in both power generated and in a/c savings. Around here, if you are outside of the fog belt, the rule of thumb right now is between four and five years. After that it's pure profit.


----------



## will101

mamangvilla said:


> I know your'e being sarcastic (and it's hilarious), but are the opponents to solar power i the US really that bad??


They're worse. Go read some of what the Teabag Taliban darlings (Rand Paul, Michelle Bachmann, Sarah Palin, Rick Perry, Ted Cruz, Ann Coulter, etc.) have been spouting about, well, pretty much anything, and you will wonder why those people are not locked in padded rooms.


----------



## MarkJF

Legomaniac, thanks for that, very informative and good to read about the various non-car access routes available.


----------



## will101

Don't think I've seen it here, but this was an early draft of the new Quakes stadium, as envisioned by DevCon. Posted on bigsoccer by Goodsport.


----------



## Guest

Looks like a $10m stadium


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

*Ottawa Fury* set new NASL attendance record - 14,593 fans at the refurbished *TD Place* saw their 0-1 defeat to NY Cosmos.

Shame there are no aerial photos to see whole stadium in football mode.


Interesting - best avg attendance in NASL is at Indy Eleven, more than 10k :bow: - they are yet to win a home game in NASL (won their first at Carolina last week).


----------



## slipperydog

MLS in preliminary discussions with Las Vegas

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...ry-discussions-over-expansion-franchise-las-?


----------



## BoulderGrad

slipperydog said:


> MLS in preliminary discussions with Las Vegas
> 
> http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...ry-discussions-over-expansion-franchise-las-?


It works out well for the league for prospective expansion owners to clamour for a few spots. No funding in place yet. No expansion fee agreed upon either. Not saying it won't happen, but very far from a sure thing at this point.


----------



## aaronniuk

Vegas would be a great trip for AWAY fans


----------



## ChesterCopperpot

dinamo_zagreb said:


> *Ottawa Fury* set new NASL attendance record - 14,593 fans at the refurbished *TD Place* saw their 0-1 defeat to NY Cosmos.
> 
> Shame there are no aerial photos to see whole stadium in football mode.


----------



## ObiUbamba

aaronniuk said:


> Vegas would be a great trip for AWAY fans


There won't be many away fans, apart from perhaps the California teams.


----------



## RMB2007

NYC FC virtual venue:

http://nycfc.io-media.com/


----------



## RMB2007

^^

Cheapest season ticket = $306

Most expensive season ticket = $2975


----------



## Bobby3

ObiUbamba said:


> There won't be many away fans, apart from perhaps the California teams.


Salt Lake would bring a good contingent. It's not a difficult trip between the two.


----------



## carnifex2005

It wouldn't be a difficult trip for Vancouver, Seattle or Portland fans too. Las Vegas flights are very cheap from the US. Friends of mine regularly got to Bellingham, Washington (short drive from the US/Canada border) to take $200 - $300 flights to Vegas for the weekend.


----------



## Kerrybai

I don't know why anyone would buy the 2975 tickets in the corner. Your neck will hurt and it's a big distance to the pitch.


----------



## slipperydog

ObiUbamba said:


> There won't be many away fans, apart from perhaps the California teams.


I'd say Vegas would be the one location that you very well could get a sizable contingent of away fans. Non-stop flights are available from almost every North American city, and the destination speaks for itself. Folks will always use an excuse to spend a few days in Vegas.


----------



## weava

RMB2007 said:


> ^^
> 
> Cheapest season ticket = $306
> 
> Most expensive season ticket = $2975


that is extremely expensive for a niche sport. You can get NFL season tickets cheaper...


----------



## GunnerJacket

weava said:


> that is extremely expensive for a niche sport. You can get NFL season tickets cheaper...


Well, we are talking about NY, and more than twice as many games.


----------



## Bobby3

RFSK said:


> Let me guess you are pass your 50's and dont like change!  it's not a niche sport footbaal is if you look into World demographics. Soccer is becoming bigger and bigger and can't be called a 'niche' sport even in the States anymore. ignorants like yourself just dont wanna realise it


I'm under 30 and like soccer. Soccer is a niche sport in America.


----------



## Bobby3

RFSK said:


> What else do you talk about in your AA meetings son?


This is why it's a niche sport, it has awful fans who drown out the decent ones because they get testy as hell on the internet. Within your next four comments you'll mention relegation.

And I'm teetotal. I don't even take advil.


----------



## Guest




----------



## mamangvilla

looks awful, when will they start building the new SSS??? it couldn't come too soon.


----------



## Guest

mamangvilla said:


> looks awful, when will they start building the new SSS??? it couldn't come too soon.


Dont expect one before 2020.


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

Seems like oil-powered club can play at non-SSS while others (Miami) can't. Nice.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Given the fee they paid to join in and their pledge to eventually build a SSS I'm willing to give the team some leeway. That said I do think the league should've held off on when they let NYCFC take the field until the team had at least secured the land for the new venue.

I'm confident they'll come through in the end, though. The Yankees won't want to have this disrupt their schedule or ruin their field anymore than needed, meanwhile Man City can't properly tout themselves as a big club if their NYC franchise doesn't have a proper home. Business wise their best investment will be in finding a spot for a nice SSS.


----------



## afonso_bh

ChesterCopperpot said:


>


Is this pitch natural?


----------



## tinyslam

So are they going to roll turf out in Yankee stadium or will the just cover the dirt with strips of grass?


----------



## GunnerJacket

I don't know but I would imagine the Yankees would mandate grass. It will be expensive and clunky switching between events but in theory both can handle the expense.


----------



## RMB2007

> *A gaming industry entrepreneur from New York City said he is going to launch a $350 million effort to bring a Major League Soccer team to Las Vegas, complete with a new covered stadium of 18,000-20,000 seats and players with international appeal.*
> 
> *Jason Ader, who owns a Manhattan fund management company and is a director and shareholder of the Las Vegas Sands Corp., said Tuesday he wants to work with the city of Las Vegas to bring big-time professional soccer to Las Vegas.*
> 
> Ader said he has discussed the viability of the Las Vegas market hosting an MLS team with MLS President and Deputy Commissioner Mark Abbott.
> 
> MLS spokesman Dan Courtemanche said Abbott has met with multiple parties that are interested in bringing an MLS team to the Las Vegas market. Las Vegas is competing against Sacramento, Calif.; San Diego; San Antonio; Austin, Texas; and Minneapolis for the final expansion team slot. MLS wants to have 24 teams by 2020.
> 
> By announcing his interest in starting a team in Las Vegas, Ader is now competing against the Findlay Sports & Entertainment Group, which was formed specifically to partner with development company Cordish Cos. The City Council several months ago green-lighted the Findlay-Cordish partnership to come up with an MLS team and stadium proposal.
> 
> Ader said he is aware of the Findlay initiative and that his bid would be separate from the Findlay-Cordish connection.
> 
> “The second mouse gets the cheese,” Ader told the Review-Journal from his New York office. “This is not something that will happen overnight.”
> 
> *Ader itemized the $350 million investment at $175 million-$200 million for a covered stadium; $100 million for an expansion fee and start-up costs; and $50 million for working capital to cover the first few years.*


https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...jTgfgB&usg=AFQjCNG_0jukFVg5aJ1ZXDLCzta6KcJ35A


----------



## Guest

This Vegas thing is gaining legs. I'm not an investor, and much smarter people than me (or should that be 'I'?) are thinking about this, but I fail to see the attraction.


----------



## slipperydog

Being the first professional team in that market.


----------



## Guest

slipperydog said:


> Being the first professional team in that market.


The only two leagues that would even feasibly think about Vegas are the NBA and MLS. It wouldn't be that special. A Liga MX team in Vegas would be more successful than MLS. Vegas is just a smaller Phoenix as far as we're concerned. Plenty who like soccer but not Major League Soccer.


----------



## slipperydog

Vegas isn't all Mexicans. In fact, it's far less Hispanic than LA or Houston. The people in that city have been waiting for professional sports for a long time, so an MLS team would definitely be embraced. It's not a smaller Phoenix. Phoenix already has other established sports teams.


----------



## Guest

The Phoenix comparison had nothing to do with the sports offerings in either city. I was merely stating that Vegas is a less populated desert city with a lot of Mexican-Americans. In both cities, Mexican-Americans make up a vast majority of the Hispanic base. A group that has shown no inclination that it has embraced MLS with any great fervor. 

Of the non-Hispanic population base in Vegas, how many of those people are waiting for soccer as the professional sport they've been pining for? Can't imagine its too many. 

It should come as no surprise to anyone that the most successful franchises in MLS are not in heavily Hispanic areas. Mexican-Americans still have allegiances to Liga MX that are hard to win over. The South-western cities should be the most successful teams in MLS, but the opposite is the truth. In Vegas, you're setting yourself up for another Dallas, Houston or Los Angeles. Respectable support in good times that falls off the face of the planet once they go below .500.


----------



## JYDA

5portsF4n said:


> A Liga MX team in Vegas would be more successful than MLS.


I don't doubt their passion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEKcK2yd33s#t=17


----------



## Guest

A good summation of things in Vegas. 

http://www.insideworldfootball.com/...ging-the-mls-show-to-town-for-a-permanent-run



> July 23 - Since MLS Commissioner Don Garber announced the league's intentions to add teams until it reaches 24 competitors, various states and cities have put their foot forward in hope of bringing the top US soccer league to their area.
> 
> The MLS currently has 19 teams, with New York City FC and Orlando City SC set to join in the 2015 season. A team based in Atlanta is planned to join in 2017, and everyone is currently waiting for Miami to finalise a stadium plan so that they can be confirmed as the 23rd expansion team.
> 
> The status on Miami is that Broward county are trying to lure David Beckham away from the Miami-Dade area that he has his heart set on.
> 
> The 24th, and for the time being final, MLS spot is up for grabs. The known contenders are San Antonio and Austin from Texas, Sacramento and San Diego in California, Minneapolis, and Las Vegas.
> 
> The Las Vegas bid was being fronted by Findlay Sports & Entertainment Group, who were partnering with Cordish Companies, a real estate development and entertainment operating company. This partnership has shown interest in the venture without proving they have the capital to make it feasible.
> 
> Just getting an MLS expansion fee costs around $70 million, and building the stadium is a significant extra cost. They have no Beckham to their aid, who has supposedly as much as $400 million of private capital to invest (of which at various stages the stadium has been reported to estimate from as cheap as $50 million to as much as $250 million during the process).
> 
> Las Vegas Councilman Ricki Barlow, who has done his part to fuel the talk of Las Vegas and MLS soccer by attending an MLS game in Portland, Oregan with his fellow Councilman Steve Ross, has yet to decry public monetary support. He stated, "I want to see what the numbers are", apparently waiting for the proposed financial package.
> 
> Findlay, of Findlay Sports & Entertainment Group, has attempted to assure the skeptics by stating, "We aren't looking to increase anyone's tactics". He confidently stated that the financing plan, the proposed public contribution, and the stadium price would all be hashed out by August 6, ready to be discussed at a City Council meeting on August 20.
> 
> Earlier reports stated that Findlay was seeking to build a 24,000-seater stadium in Symphony Park, just a few miles from the famous strip and downtown area. It was proposed to come equipped with a retractable roof, shading over every seat, and air conditioning capable of keeping the stadium 30 degrees Fahrenheit cooler than outside so as to control the desert climate.
> 
> Findlay fought off the idea of creating a basketball or ice hockey arena for an NBA or NHL team, which would cost substantially more than creating an MLS team. The city's mayor, Carolyn Goodman, was persuaded by Findlay to pursue football (soccer) instead.
> 
> Findlay said that Las Vegas is on the "short list" of potential MLS suitors, but was quickly corrected by MLS spokesman Dan Cortemanche who denied the existence of any such list.
> 
> But whilst Findlay has been busy getting his proposal together, a local contender has emerged to steal the deal for Vegas. Jason Ader, a gaming industry entrepreneur from New York City, has entered the fray, stating his intentions to bring the MLS to Sin City using $350 million.
> 
> Ader is a director and shareholder of the Las Vegas Sands Corporation, an American casino and resort operating company, which links his interest to the city. He also has stakes in football elsewhere, as he recently became the largest shareholder with rights to appoint a director in the controlling company of Bwin, who have sponsored Real Madrid in the past and who are a major sponsor of global soccer.
> 
> In this package he promises an 18,000-20,000 seated covered stadium (budgeted between $175 and $200 million), $100 million for an expansion fee plus start up costs, and an extra $50 million for working capital for the beginning years (which could well go toward helping deliver his promise to bring players with international appeal to the team).
> 
> He plans on providing the money from his own capital in conjunction with limited partners and Asian investors in the "EB-5 visa" program that provides visas for people who invest $500,000 or more in construction projects in the US.
> 
> Ader stated that he would require a tax concession from the city: "We would be looking for a tax concession. The question is how much? It would need a subsidy," he said.
> 
> Mayor Goodman has responded less enthusiastically to his arrival on the scene by maintaining that the city has a deal with the Findlay and Cordish group, thus having little to say about Ader's ambitions.
> 
> Findlay himself responded by claiming, "it does not change our vision or continued effort to bring a Major League Soccer team to Las Vegas. We feel that local ownership is an important element to ensure this happens and that the team is a community asset."
> 
> However, Ader's arrival does shake things up. He has already presented a greater breakdown in costs than Findlay's group has published, and, all the more, has the apparent financial backing necessary for the venture. Though Ader may not change Findlay's vision, the presence of a competitor on his turf could well change his approach.


----------



## JYDA

Interesting stuff. I'm pretty sure MLS will prefer the guy with the coin.


----------



## Guest

JYDA said:


> Interesting stuff. I'm pretty sure MLS will prefer the guy with the coin.


The question is what will the city of Las Vegas prefer? Whoever can get the best deal for the city will win out. The city seems very interested in building a stadium, so assuming that a good financing package can be worked out, Vegas will have met 2 of the 3 things MLS look for (the other being ownership).

Unfortunately, the last third includes a potential fanbase, and that's one thing that is definitely missing. I am being unfair on Vegas I realize, because other franchises like Orlando and Sacramento have gone from nothing to something substantial very quickly, but I remain skeptical. 

In any case I won't shed tears if nothing comes of this. However Vegas right now seems to be only city, in MLS or otherwise, that looks like it is actually pursuing a stadium. We can all welcome more stadium porn. :cheers:


----------



## Topher51

weava said:


> that is extremely expensive for a niche sport. You can get NFL season tickets cheaper...


Not when you have to buy a PSL in addition to the cost of the tickets. Ask a Jets or Giants fan about that.


----------



## ObiUbamba

5portsF4n said:


> The question is what will the city of Las Vegas prefer? Whoever can get the best deal for the city will win out. The city seems very interested in building a stadium, so assuming that a good financing package can be worked out, Vegas will have met 2 of the 3 things MLS look for (the other being ownership).
> 
> Unfortunately, the last third includes a potential fanbase, and that's one thing that is definitely missing. I am being unfair on Vegas I realize, because other franchises like Orlando and Sacramento have gone from nothing to something substantial very quickly, but I remain skeptical.
> 
> In any case I won't shed tears if nothing comes of this. However Vegas right now seems to be only city, in MLS or otherwise, that looks like it is actually pursuing a stadium. We can all welcome more stadium porn. :cheers:


This is why I prefer the MLS to "promote" teams from the lower divisions (like Sacromento, Orlando) who they know will have a reliable fanbase. I don't think building a shiny stadium in a tourist-heavy city will drag many locals on a regular basis to see MLS soccer. They will have to do some really good marketing to get a good fanbase from scratch.


----------



## Guest

ObiUbamba said:


> This is why I prefer the MLS to "promote" teams from the lower divisions (like Sacromento, Orlando) who they know will have a reliable fanbase. I don't think building a shiny stadium in a tourist-heavy city will drag many locals on a regular basis to see MLS soccer. They will have to do some really good marketing to get a good fanbase from scratch.


Thing is that the reliable fan base in Orlando wouldnt be watching MLS next season without the city's support for a stadium. As long as Vegas build a stadium, they are 75% of the way there. I agree with you regarding Vegas as a market, but Vegas will be in prime position if they can get this approved.


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## el_Fernando

Being that I'm puro Quakes I would like to see Sacto get the franchise. Then I can hate on them like I do the Kings. I've been to a Republic FC game and it was loads of fun. Sac has a good history of supporting The Kings and their triple-A Rivercats team.


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## el_Fernando

*New updates on Quakes stadium*

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/...-a-silicon-valley-soccer-stadium-see-the.html

Looking good!


----------



## slipperydog

5portsF4n said:


> The Phoenix comparison had nothing to do with the sports offerings in either city. I was merely stating that Vegas is a less populated desert city with a lot of Mexican-Americans. *In both cities, Mexican-Americans make up a vast majority of the Hispanic base.* A group that has shown no inclination that it has embraced MLS with any great fervor.


That tells us nothing. Mexican-Americans, with a few exceptions on the East Coast, make up a vast majority of the “Hispanic base” in every market. The notion that Las Vegas is nothing but Mexicans is blatantly false. Hispanics are still a minority by a significant margin in Clark County, and to imply that even they are incapable or unwilling to support MLS is a massive, and slightly offensive, presumption.



> Of the non-Hispanic population base in Vegas, how many of those people are waiting for soccer as the professional sport they've been pining for? Can't imagine its too many.


Have you conducted a poll?




> It should come as no surprise to anyone that the most successful franchises in MLS are not in heavily Hispanic areas.


Define successful. Columbus’ Hispanic presence is nil. Same thing with the northern Dallas suburbs. New England and DC don’t have bastions of Hispanics either. And those supposed “white people” clubs aren’t any different than Houston, LA, San Jose, or any other clubs located in Hispanic areas.

There’s no reason a Vegas club can’t succeed, given the right management and facility.


----------



## MarkJF

Interesting...........there is a huge Euro market for football "weekenders", 1000's of Brits fly out all over Europe for a football match every week, Lisbon, Madrid, BCN, Milan, Dortmund etc 1000's of Euro's fly *into* England for our games.

Most US cities hold little appeal for a short football (boy's) break. But Las Vegas? That is a winning short break, football, destination, guaranteed.


----------



## WesTexas

NYCFC needs a soccer specific stadium ASAP. Why don't they play at MetLife for the time? Is it because of the turf? Where did Red Bulls play before their pitch was built?


----------



## RFSK

WesTexas said:


> NYCFC needs a soccer specific stadium ASAP. Why don't they play at MetLife for the time? Is it because of the turf? Where did Red Bulls play before their pitch was built?


Red Bulls played in the old Giants stadium.

Nycfc is marketed as, a new york city club, it is supposed to lure out fans that didn't feel connected to the Jersey based Red Bulls, and mls dont want City to east ditectly in to Red Bulls fan base, so yea it is about turf


----------



## slipperydog

RFSK said:


> Red Bulls played in the old Giants stadium.
> 
> Nycfc is marketed as, a new york city club, it is supposed to lure out fans that didn't feel connected to the Jersey based Red Bulls, and mls dont want City to east ditectly in to Red Bulls fan base, so yea it is about turf


Which is dumb because plenty of non-Jersey New Yorkers feel connected to the Jersey-based Giants and Jets.


----------



## Lakeland

> On June 13, 2013, Bronx Borough President Rubén Díaz, Jr. wrote an open letter to Garber, imploring him to consider the Bronx as an alternative location given the issues surrounding the Queens location, though by this time New York City FC and its owners had taken over the bulk of the work in selecting a location.[9]
> 
> The club plans to play at Yankee Stadium for an unspecified number of years.[3] Ferran Soriano, CEO of Manchester City F.C., stated the team "will have to play in a temporary location for two years, maybe three."[10]
> 
> On August 29, 2013, plans for a proposed nine-acre complex near Yankee Stadium, between the Major Deegan Expressway and East 153rd Street, were leaked. Randy Levine, the president of the Yankees, confirmed these reports, but stated that any plans were far from final.[11]
> 
> In December 2013, the team and Mayor Bloomberg's administration were close to an agreement over a $350 million stadium near Yankee Stadium. However, Mayor-elect Bill de Blasio, who replaced Bloomberg in January 2014, expressed opposition to the deal, as it involved tax breaks, public financing and a sale or lease of public land. The plan requires buying land currently occupied by a factory, which would have to be rebuilt at another location and demolishing a parking garage, potentially leaving the city responsible for its $240 million debt.


So according to this, the plan for a new stadium was shot down by the new mayor and currently there's no concrete plan besides playing at Yankee Stadium. 

This might sound crazy, but what about the former West Side Stadium site in Manhattan? As far as I know, they have not done anything with the place since the Olympics bid was shot down. These Man City owners are loaded so why not make a big splash. They could privately finance the whole thing.









MLS stadium would look great on this site.


----------



## ReNaHtEiM

Ahemm Hudson Yards!!!


----------



## ielag

slipperydog said:


> Which is dumb because plenty of non-Jersey New Yorkers feel connected to the Jersey-based Giants and Jets.


Because their origins reside in the City, and it's never that fair to compare any sport to the NFL. 

MetroStars / Red Bulls have just never connected much with people in NYC/LI/Westchester, that's just the reality. A lot due to it being an absolute pain to getting to the then Meadowlands and Red Bull Arena is slightly easier to get to, but by no means a simple train ride for a majority. NYRB is essentially like the Devils and Nets pre-Brooklyn in terms of what the entire NYC metro market thinks of them, they're an NJ team.

While the baseball set up of Yankee Stadium obviously isn't preferred, YS is extremely accessible by public transit (subway, bus, and Metro-North) and right off the Major Deegan Expressway. And there's that other thing about not having to pay any rent to play at YS. If people remember, MetroStars/NYRB got absolutely fleeced on their lease at old Giants Stadium (only kept ticket money, all other concessions went elsewhere, and paid like $100K per game rent), wouldn't be any different at Metlife.


----------



## slipperydog

Yes, I'm sure Abu Dhabi are very concerned about the rent in Jersey.


----------



## RFSK

Nycfc are trying hard to find a good location inside the five boroughs but the ideal would be Manhattan. As mentioned above the old West side location is out of question because of hudson yaards, other then that their doesn't seem to be any location available inside Manhattan (pier 40?). The report that was made for new Yorks 2012 Olympics bid, didn't it have other possible locations for a Manhattan stadium? Where they will end up is everyones question. But none seems to have the answer


----------



## Lakeland

Sporting Park 7/23
















https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152569770912042.1073741922.45625502041&type=1


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## el_Fernando

I hope this is not a dumb question but...

Are the pitches for all MLS the same dimensions? And how do they compare to those of the World Cup? MLS look smaller.


----------



## tinyslam

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Soccer_stadiums

They vary. The longest is 110 m and the shortest is 101 m. The narrowest is 64 m and the widest is 70 m.

The dimensions of the pitch at Maracanã is identical to the dimensions of BMO stadium's pitch and Buck Shaw stadium's pitch (105 m x 68 m). And pretty close to the dimensions of Columbus's pitch and the Revolution's pitch (105 m x 69 m). According to wikipedia.


----------



## WesTexas

RFSK said:


> Nycfc are trying hard to find a good location inside the five boroughs but the ideal would be Manhattan. As mentioned above the old West side location is out of question because of hudson yaards, other then that their doesn't seem to be any location available inside Manhattan (pier 40?). The report that was made for new Yorks 2012 Olympics bid, didn't it have other possible locations for a Manhattan stadium? Where they will end up is everyones question. But none seems to have the answer


Isn't there a park next to yankee stadium where the old yankee stadium used to be? Can they not build it there or is that to much a part of the community now?
I like the Hudson Yards idea of the land that was originally slated for the Jets Stadium during the Olympics Bid. I think NYCFC is going to have a great turn out right away because of the star power they are signing.


----------



## tinyslam

That's hallowed ground. I think they would rather tear down a warehouse and have to build a new one somewhere else in the city than build over that park.


----------



## WesTexas

/what about Randall Wards Island? Soccer grounds all over the place for kids to use, NYCFC builds a stadium there and takes over those grounds as their training grounds as well as upgrades the area for kids and youth to ply soccer?

What other areas are there? Could they "Make the land" like they did with half the city out in the rivers?


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## tinyslam

No subway stations on Randall Island. I would think they would want a good transit connection to cater to NYC residents, especially the many that don't have a car.


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## slipperydog

Update on DC United:

Mayor Vincent C. Gray’s point man on a $300 million soccer stadium proposal said Wednesday he was working to address residents’ concerns about how the Reeves Center municipal building would be redeveloped should the District agree to trade the property for needed stadium land.

Speaking at a D.C. Council roundtable Wednesday night, City Administrator Allen Lew said he was negotiating with developer Akridge to include office space or a hotel in the company’s redevelopment plan for the property, located at 14th and U Streets NW.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/news/di...-reeves-center-redevelopment-in-stadium-deal/


RSL planning to build 6,000-seat USL Pro stadium near downtown as part of project to build new convention center.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...-Lake-team-up-on-proposed-soccer-stadium.html


----------



## slipperydog

Columbus Crew to reveal new logo, brand on Oct 8


----------



## JJG

slipperydog said:


> Columbus Crew to reveal new logo, brand on Oct 8


Awesome.


----------



## carnifex2005

Here's the latest rendering of the new Atlanta Falcons stadium in soccer configuration...


----------



## GunnerJacket

I've heard they've had some issues working out how to handle the ceiling panels, hence the proposed change in design we see above. Put simply it's a matter of gracefully matching a form that physically does the job of sufficiently tarping off the upper decks but can also conveniently slip into storage somewhere. Above version is obviously a simple form but from below probably does a fair job of framing the view. Not sure about the black, though.

Question now is will they have the means to also tarp off the club level, if needed. Would love to find the answer is "not needed!"


----------



## SounderBruce

Those tarps would be great for advertising, since the jumbotron requires everyone to look up anyway.


----------



## GunnerJacket

SounderBruce said:


> Those tarps would be great for advertising, since the jumbotron requires everyone to look up anyway.


Sorry, but no. Yes it would make a few more millions for Blank but that would give it a minor league baseball park feel and clash with everything else the design is trying to achieve. Plus it would create visual "noise" that could make it difficult to view the high paying ads that will surely be on the video board.


----------



## krudmonk

Yeah, ads work along the end and touch lines because those are already in the fans' sightline. Putting them high up would be too distracting.


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^Sounders make their tarps just one giant Xbox ad.


----------



## krudmonk

BoulderGrad said:


> ^^Sounders make their tarps just one giant Xbox ad.


Well they are loathsome and who wants to copy that?


----------



## Lakeland

Sacramento Republic owner: It’s now or never in MLS bid
http://www.sacbee.com/2014/08/22/6647609/sacramento-republic-owner-its.html


> Smith said he's "very confident" that Republic FC can execute a partnership agreement with the Sacramento Kings and Kings' co-owner Kevin Nagle to help bankroll the MLS bid. He also said he believes Republic FC can show MLS officials a privately-financed stadium plan when they visit Sacramento sometime in September.
> 
> Although the team has scouted stadium locations mostly within the city of Sacramento, city officials have said they doubt they can help pay for the new stadium, expected to cost $100 million to $125 million. Spots in and around the downtown railyard have emerged as likely locations, but Smith said other sites have been considered, including the Docks area, Richards Boulevard and the Bridge District near Raley Field in West Sacramento.


----------



## RMB2007

Dr. Mark and Cindy Lynn Stadium, University of Louisville Men's and Women's Soccer:

104143573


----------



## master_klon

*San Jose Earthquakes Stadium* - 18000 cap.

At the moment a lot of work is being done installing the field's drainage system.
Seat installation begins mid September.


Some photos taken from outside the stadium by 'falvo' from bigsoccer.com:


----------



## master_klon




----------



## master_klon




----------



## will101

master_klon said:


> At the moment a lot of work is being done installing the field's drainage system.
> Seat installation begins mid September.
> 
> Some photos taken from outside the stadium by 'falvo' from bigsoccer.com


He got up early for those pics. I'm guessing that they were taken right around 6 a.m.


----------



## bd popeye

master_klon, very excellent photos. Thanks for posting.

However.. the photos are large. I wish this forum automatically re-sized photos like so many other vbulletin forum do. Perhaps this older version of vbulletin is the reason the photos do not automatically re-size..


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## slipperydog

Opening Aug 2014


----------



## RMB2007

> *The City of Las Vegas, The Cordish Companies and Findlay Sports & Entertainment announced a term sheet that outlines key deal points for bringing the first professional sports team to downtown.*
> 
> The plan includes the construction of a state-of-the-art stadium designed specifically for Major League Soccer. The new MLS stadium would be home to a Las Vegas-based MLS franchise and located in the downtown Symphony Park area, north of the Smith Center for Performing Arts.
> 
> *The stadium would accommodate up to 24,000 fans and include state-of-the-art concession and fan entertainment experiences.*
> 
> The venue would also be used for other community purposes and could host a variety of events.
> 
> The combination of the stadium and team is projected to total in excess of a $300 million investment in downtown Las Vegas. An independent analysis shows the stadium is estimated to generate over $9 million in annual tax revenue for the state, county, city of Las Vegas and other local entities.
> 
> It's also projected to generate over 1,200 jobs, including 525 construction jobs and 700 permanent jobs.
> 
> The new stadium will not move forward unless the Findlay-Cordish partnership is awarded an MLS team. The plan is also for the team to enter into a long-term lease (30 years) and agree to stay in the city for the same period of time.
> 
> At its next meeting on Sept. 3, the Las Vegas City Council will vote on a non-binding term sheet. The approval of a non-binding term sheet is the next step toward securing an MLS team and constructing the stadium.
> 
> If approved, the city and the Findlay-Cordish partnership would draft and present a binding development agreement to the City Council in December 2014.


http://t.co/VFC3ONtpcJ


----------



## Bori427

So Vegas almost sealed the deal?


----------



## carnifex2005

Nice renders. I'd only say they sealed the deal when there are shovels in the ground. Las Vegas had always failed at stadium/arena projects over the years.


----------



## carnifex2005

No. I'd say the max for Div 2 and 3 would be 8k-10k stadiums. NASL (Division 2) averages around 6k per match, USL-Pro (Division 3) around 3k per match.


----------



## GunnerJacket

I'm going to slightly disagree and say - "Maybe."

Rochester already has a facility for about 13k. Indy might be a candidate for 10k+ in the future and San Antonio and Sacramento are demonstrating similar potential combined with fiscal ambition. So while a second division in the US may not average over 10k, it's entirely possible that we see several teams push past that threshold. 

20k is likely too much. At that point I'd wager the cost/benefit of that size venue isn't that great for a league with only pocket change for media revenues. once you start talking second tiers and advanced construction then you really need TV money and/or the ability to sell premium suites in order to justify the expense.

As for San Antonio's plans, I think they look pretty solid. I still think SA should be a long-way off from MLS' radar at the moment but as far as a facility goes that's a pretty novel and efficient proposal.


----------



## Archbishop

We're averaging almost 11K right now so hopefully that will keep up and the proposed stadium can get built somewhere.


----------



## master_klon

*Persistence pays off as Philadelphia Union begin construction on training facility at PPL Park*












> ...Sakiewicz expects the facility, which will house “two top-quality grass pitches,” to be ready for use by the end of October. The project also includes renovating the nearby annex building to house the team’s executive offices, which he said will take closer to a year. And, “in the longer term,” Sakiewicz said, the Union are thinking about the “development of another structure that can house the team with more locker rooms.”...


----------



## master_klon

*Real Salt Lake's stadium proposal for new USL PRO team approved*












> Real Salt Lake's plans for fielding a USL PRO team took another major step forward on Tuesday, according to a local report that the Utah State Fairpark's Board of Directors approved the club's proposal for construction of an 8,000-seat stadium to host the team at the downtown site.
> 
> The new venue would be funded by RSL, who reaffirmed plans to MLSsoccer.com on Tuesday to debut their USL PRO side next year and base it at their Rio Tinto Stadium home (which will be downsized for USL PRO matches) until the Fairpark facility is completed. The home of the Utah State Fair, the site sits in a central location and has become a target for revitalization as sections of the complex show their age. The soccer stadium would be a key anchor of the Fairpark redevelopment plan. The new stadium would be a multi-use venue able to host a range of other events. But the main tenant would be RSL's new project, which is considered a vital developmental piece bridging the club's youth academy in Arizona with the senior team. At present, the LA Galaxy are the only MLS club to field a USL PRO team of their own, known as Galaxy II, though several other MLS clubs are planning similar strategies.



Good interview with Real Salt Lake Owner Dell Loy Hansen
http://www.kutv.com/sports/features/talkin-sports/stories/vid_1810.shtml

Interesting points from the interview:

The USL Pro team stadium will cost $17million.
They have left the concert business - focus on soccer with 14 additional home games (USL Pro) next year.
The next step in the expansion of Rio Tinto Stadium - when needed - will be to replace the temporary seats and concert area in the south stand with a 2000 seat permanent section.
The short term plan is to install a $2.5million digital board by the end of October. Size will be 140 by 40 feet - apparently the same size as the one at Levi Stadium.


----------



## carnifex2005

*EXCLUSIVE: Sun obtains renderings of BMO Field upgrade*

Hold your horses, Hamilton, it turns out Toronto might one-up Tim Hortons field.

A day after the new home of the Hamilton Ticats’ opened in Steel Town, the Toronto Sun got its hands on the latest BMO Field renderings.
And, despite many Toronto FC fans being skeptical of the club’s new digs, the “upgraded” BMO Field looks pretty nice.
Heck, it looks like a real soccer stadium, roof and all.

“The link between what we did with TFC from (last) November on and what we’re doing with the stadium is tied hand-in-hand in order to make sure that we have a stadium that is one of the best in the league,” MLSE CEO Tim Leiweke told the Toronto Sun earlier this year.

While the latest renderings the Sun received are subject to change, the image shows roofing above three of the sections, with two extra decks built behind the east stand and the supporters’ end.
Capacity is supposed to peak at close to 30,000 for Toronto FC games once the $120 million in renovations are complete.

Phase 1 of the project is scheduled to begin this month.


----------



## BlazerBlaze

Are there any plans for a pleasant exterior for the new Quakes Stadium (like the orange wrap in Houston) or are they just going to put some large signs up between the gaps?


----------



## Kerrybai

The BMO field render looks great. The stand has a very English feel to it.


----------



## carnifex2005

carnifex2005 said:


> Nice renders. I'd only say they sealed the deal when there are shovels in the ground. Las Vegas had always failed at stadium/arena projects over the years.


And just like that (as I suspected) the LV plan is on life support and looking to be dead.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014/sep/03/live-coverage-las-vegas-city-council/

From the article:

_The Las Vegas City Council voted 4-3 today to delay its vote on a proposal for a $200 million stadium for Major League Soccer until Oct. 1.
Even if the proposal passes in October, it faces a challenge in the final vote in December. The proposal will need a five-vote super majority. But if the three council members who were strongly opposed today don't change positions, supporters would fall at least one vote short of the super majority._


----------



## master_klon

BlazerBlaze said:


> Are there any plans for a pleasant exterior for the new Quakes Stadium (like the orange wrap in Houston) or are they just going to put some large signs up between the gaps?


There will be a wrap, it will look like shutters. The club has tested two colourways - terracotta and metallic - but I'm not sure which one they have chosen or if they plan to use both. They probably have already made a decision though, as the shutters are being manufactured in Germany.



View from ground-level suites:


----------



## carnifex2005

If true, the most important part of this is that none of this is on city land. Lets see what excuse the city would have to stop this if Beckham wants to build a stadium there. Here's a pic of Red Bull Arena on the plot of land. Some of a parking lot would have to be bought too.










*Beckham in talks with Genting for stadium at old Herald site*

It's been just over a year since the Miami Herald moved out of its old building along Biscayne Bay. The building was sold to the Genting Group, yet there is still a holdup in its demolition.

Workers took months to gut the building's interior because of tedious asbestos removal, and now frayed electrical wires that dangle from the crumpled concrete make the building a waterfront eyesore.

A Miami Herald photographer captured the explosion that marked the start of demolition last April, which sent plumes of dust billowing across Biscayne Bay. And that dust sparked alarm at City Hall.

"I don't think that they had started to go about the process properly, and I don't think they had started demolishing effectively, and it created a lot of dust," said Commissioner Marc Sarnoff.

Sarnoff told Local 10 News the city's building department put a temporary halt to the contractor's plan because of concerns about dust and structural issues.

"I don't think it is Genting taking its time," said Sarnoff. "I think it is a much tougher building to take down than anyone really imagined."

Genting once had plans to build a luxury destination casino resort, but state lawmakers haven't allowed the kind of gambling to make that happen. Despite intense lobbying, a scaled-down version is now in the works, which may involve soccer superstar David Beckham.

"I've invited Beckham to have a discussion with them because if you wanted to create a downtown stadium, that is a place where you can accomplish that," said Sarnoff.

Sarnoff said the plan to unite the Genting Group with Beckham's proposed Major League Soccer stadium has been in the works for two months and that Beckham has met with Genting executives at least twice in New York.

A Genting representative wasn't immediately aware of any exploratory meetings but said current plans for the site involve a mixed-use project to include a 500-room hotel, two luxury condos and a variety of high-end retail shops and restaurants.


----------



## slipperydog

Seems a long shot given there's a monorail line running right through the middle of the site.


----------



## WesTexas

thats an easy re alignment for the rail.


----------



## carnifex2005

https://twitter.com/MarcosBreton/status/507608207213068288

BREAKING: #NBAKINGS owner Kevin Nagle HAS bought @SacRepublicFC.Nagle preparing a stadium plan ahead of @mls visit to #Sacramento


----------



## master_klon

Montreal have announced they will have a USL Pro team next year and Vancouver have also announced that they are in the final stages of finalising the location for their USL Pro team.

Great to see a number of MLS teams forming their own USL Pro teams to bridge the gap between the academy/reserves and the first team, as well as the increase in investments in recent years into stadiums and training complexes. Would be great now if the league could raise the salary cap and allow an extra DP.

*A new training centre in the old historic building of the Caserne Letourneux*












> The Montreal Impact is currently finalizing a project to create a new training centre, close to Stade Saputo on Notre-Dame Street, in the old historic building of the Caserne Letourneux. The objective is to accommodate four fields, two natural and two synthetic, with the centre operational in 2015.
> 
> Through a unique partnership with the Mercier-Hochelaga-Maisonneuve borough, the Academy and the first team will be installed permanently in this location. Synthetic fields will also be available to local soccer organizations.
> 
> The purchase offer for the building has been accepted and discussions are advanced to finalize the agreement protocol with the borough.
> 
> The investment for the building, upgrading and redesign of the fields will be fully supported by the Montreal Impact.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Not sure where that reporter is from but here in the States the term "historic" implies something old.


----------



## Bori427

master_klon, why an extra DP? It's way more important to raise the salary cap so quality improves.


----------



## carnifex2005

GunnerJacket said:


> Not sure where that reporter is from but here in the States the term "historic" implies something old.


That building was made in 1915. Old enough.


----------



## WesTexas

carnifex2005 said:


> https://twitter.com/MarcosBreton/status/507608207213068288
> 
> BREAKING: #NBAKINGS owner Kevin Nagle HAS bought @SacRepublicFC.Nagle preparing a stadium plan ahead of @mls visit to #Sacramento


so they can afford to build a new soccer stadium but cant build a new arena for their NBA team.


----------



## GunnerJacket

carnifex2005 said:


> That building was made in 1915. Old enough.


I was poking fun of them putting the "old" in front of historic. I'm not familiar with any new historic buildings myself, but that might just be me. :cheers:


----------



## Botev1912

such small stadiums won't qualify for a lot of World Cup matches especially in the second round.


----------



## mamangvilla

20k is sufficient for U-20 tournament


----------



## slipperydog

Looks like Houston is looking to put its USL Pro affiliate in McAllen, TX, would be called the Rio Grande Valley Dynamo.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...sentatives-nearby-mcallen-over-creating-usl-p

Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, Red Bulls also expected to announce USL Pro teams for 2015, in addition to Montreal and RSL.


----------



## Kerrybai

GunnerJacket said:


> I must admit I'm liking the Quakes stadium more and more as this comes to the finish line. I'm still not enamored with the suites along the front rows but I appreciate the effort to be unique.
> 
> Now I wish the US could host a FIFA event featuring nothing but MLS venues to show off these great small-to-mid sized venues. Maybe an upcoming U-20 WC or something?


Yep under 20 would be perfect. The final and more glamorous ties could be played in larger venues such as seattle and maybe the odd NFL/college stadium if needed. 2019 is the next available tournament.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Botev1912 said:


> such small stadiums won't qualify for a lot of World Cup matches especially in the second round.


None of the MLS venues except Seattle would qualify for THE World Cup since the min. capacity necessary is 40k. I was referring to the youth or women's tournaments where min capacity is 15k. Guess I should've clarified that.


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> Looks like Houston is looking to put its USL Pro affiliate in McAllen, TX, would be called the Rio Grande Valley Dynamo.
> 
> http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...sentatives-nearby-mcallen-over-creating-usl-p
> 
> Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, Red Bulls also expected to announce USL Pro teams for 2015, in addition to Montreal and RSL.


The good part about this is the suggestion that the teams are prospering enough to support a deeper, traditional development structure. This will only help the talent level over time so maybe we'll see in my lifetime several world class USMNT players who trained within MLS!


----------



## goldy21

Good to see the Quakes stadium finally entering the completion stages. Seems like the project has been going on forever, especially with the excavation of the former munitions factory, etc.


----------



## will101

goldy21 said:


> Good to see the Quakes stadium finally entering the completion stages. Seems like the project has been going on forever, especially with the excavation of the former munitions factory, etc.


They started digging on March 9, 2013. So we're talking 18 months so far. When you add in the unscheduled removal of underground bunkers holding live ammo, I don't think this is going slowly at all.

And here is a webcam shot from a few minutes ago. The major change is sections of the scoreboard are being mounted (you can no longer see through parts of the scoreboard framework.)


----------



## carlosfng

WesTexas said:


> What Miami sites have been shot down and what was the reasoning?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_MLS_stadium

The two sites were the PortMiami one (first considered), and then the Museum Park one. Both were on the waterfront in downtown. 

The PortMiami one would have been ideal, but the companies in the port led by Royal Caribbean all ganged up and lobbied against it, and the city shot it down. I suppose they did so with good reason if they plan to expand the port, but Beckham's argument about the companies wanting to keep paying below-market rates on the lease of the port also has a point too. 

The Museum Park site would have pretty much made it right next to the AA Arena. But this was going to be harder, since they'd have had to fill a pretty big boat-slip - this had made the site be turned down by the Marlins earlier. Plus there was the matter of building on public parkland, which was going to require a public vote and already garnered criticism for silly stuff such as causing traffic or blocking the view (forgetting that there cant be much more traffic, that the view is pretty much blocked everywhere, and that the park itself is more known for hosting the Ultra music festival than its museums or parkland). Either way, it was shot down too.

Thus, now I think the Miami MLS team is kind of dead in the water. MLS wants there to be a SSS and wants it on the waterfront. And I don't see any other sites any closer than being near the airport or in FIU's stadium, since for some reason MLS doesn't want to build near Marlins Park (which is the only downtown place available, I'd think?). Worse, I'm seeing that now neighboring counties want the stadium - Broward would like it in Sunrise right next to the BB&T Center, and Palm Beach wants it in FAU. They are kind of forgetting that the Ft. Lauderdale Strikers are already there, and that the Florida Panthers (in Sunrise) aren't doing so well at that...


----------



## BoulderGrad

carlosfng said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_MLS_stadium
> 
> The two sites were the PortMiami one (first considered), and then the Museum Park one. Both were on the waterfront in downtown.
> 
> The PortMiami one would have been ideal, but the companies in the port led by Royal Caribbean all ganged up and lobbied against it, and the city shot it down. I suppose they did so with good reason if they plan to expand the port, but Beckham's argument about the companies wanting to keep paying below-market rates on the lease of the port also has a point too.
> 
> The Museum Park site would have pretty much made it right next to the AA Arena. But this was going to be harder, since they'd have had to fill a pretty big boat-slip - this had made the site be turned down by the Marlins earlier. Plus there was the matter of building on public parkland, which was going to require a public vote and already garnered criticism for silly stuff such as causing traffic or blocking the view (forgetting that there cant be much more traffic, that the view is pretty much blocked everywhere, and that the park itself is more known for hosting the Ultra music festival than its museums or parkland). Either way, it was shot down too.
> 
> Thus, now I think the Miami MLS team is kind of dead in the water. MLS wants there to be a SSS and wants it on the waterfront. And I don't see any other sites any closer than being near the airport or in FIU's stadium, since for some reason MLS doesn't want to build near Marlins Park (which is the only downtown place available, I'd think?). Worse, I'm seeing that now neighboring counties want the stadium - Broward would like it in Sunrise right next to the BB&T Center, and Palm Beach wants it in FAU. They are kind of forgetting that the Ft. Lauderdale Strikers are already there, and that the Florida Panthers (in Sunrise) aren't doing so well at that...


Most recent development is building on the old Miami Herald building's site. A developer has been trying for years without success to build a casino there. They might be more amenable to going in with Beckham on a soccer stadium. Will see how it goes.


----------



## desertpunk

*David Beckham Irreverently Lets Go of Dream Stadium Site*












> After giving it a good go, David Beckham is finally branching out from his minefield-ladden dream of building Miami's glamorous new, TV-ready Major League soccer stadium on a waterfront Downtown site, which is fabulous because if he kept announcing sites just to have them get beaten up on by just about everybody the whole stadium idea might have sunk fast.
> 
> Beckham's love for Miami still endures, and he's willing to build an inland stadium to make it happen! And Miami is not about to lose what will be a fantastic new sports franchise for the city because of a couple pimply proposals. And he's got a few more options up his tailored sleeves, but he's not revealing them yet. "My dream was to have our stadium on a waterfront. It's not worked out like that and we have alternative sites. It will happen." he said, along with saying he'd been "cheeky" about the earlier plans.



Rumors were swirling that Beckham's people were in talks with Genting, the developer behind Resorts World Miami which has a large waterfront location but may not see a casino license for years due to statehouse politics. This latest news peobably means that the Genting site will not have a stadium...









Resorts World Miami


----------



## will101

Update on the Quakes: no sign of the seats yet. But President Dave Kaval tweeted that they are in the process of laying pea gravel on the field, in preparation of adding grass soon. Let's hope that they are going to have fewer problems on that front than their neighbors up the road did.


----------



## Lakeland

Exterior of Quakes new stadium. 
https://twitter.com/breakground/status/510482210986545152/photo/1









View from SW party deck.
https://twitter.com/breakground/status/510484562011361280/photo/1









Quakes stadium site across the street from San Jose airport. Nice view of runway from top of south EZ. 
https://twitter.com/breakground/status/510482750382432256/photo/1









Stacks of wood from 1,000-yr-old redwoods for scoreboard bar in north EZ.
https://twitter.com/breakground/status/510483390156378113/photo/1









Yellow framed spaces are suites. Six along each sideline just above field level. Sold out at $100K annually. 
https://twitter.com/breakground/status/510483822324883456/photo/1









Quakes scoreboard will be Bay Area's second-largest behind Niners. Both sides show video.
https://twitter.com/breakground/status/510484336563335168/photo/1









Stadium expansion joint critical for construction in California in the event of earthquakes.
https://twitter.com/breakground/status/510485029370068992/photo/1

Photos by Don Muret


----------



## master_klon

Update from Dave Kaval:

Surveying field grades










Redwood finish on the exterior of the suites


----------



## RMB2007

> New York City FC is considering building its stadium near the Aqueduct Racetrack in Queens, Capital New York's Gloria Pazmino reports.
> 
> The franchise is looking into a site near the racetrack because a plan to build in the Bronx didn't work out, according to the report.


http://www.capitalnewyork.com/artic...2/soccer-club-considers-aqueduct-stadium-site


----------



## WesTexas

thank you moderators for cleaning that up. Thanks for the San Jose pics!


----------



## will101

Newish aerial of the Quakes' stadium, from their site. No word on seats yet.


----------



## Lumbergo

> The Strikers will be making a major announcement this Friday, September 19, regarding the ownership and future status of the club.



Hopefully whomever the new owners are can pump some much needed capital and investment into the team. The current owners Traffic Sports are pretty mediocre.


----------



## jbradway

First renderings of what the downtown Sacramento MLS stadium could look like: http://www.sacrepublicfc.com/republic-fc-chooses-railyards-stadium-site/#.VBomSvldWQM


----------



## eric the midget

Looks pretty generic unfortunately.


----------



## JJG

KeanoManu said:


> Okay. What about Mississippi or Alabama? Two states that doesn't have a team in any of the four big leagues as far as I know. I may be incorrect on that one though as I don't know much about Basketball or Baseball.


Oh God, those states are even WORSE for pro sports in general. 

Birmingham, Alabama is the largest metro area in those states and it's _smaller_ than Greater New Orleans. 

People in Mississippi tend to be fans of teams in New Orleans, while people in Alabama cheer for Atlanta teams.


----------



## ielag

The owners of the new Charlotte Independence franchise in USLPro want to go the Orlando and Sacramento route. Draw well in USLPro, hopefully attract a big money investor for MLS, and of course Charlotte is the banking capital of the South.

They have a good stadium location but it's very old and would require a renovation for MLS standards.


----------



## Bori427

Renovation? It would have to be built all over again...


----------



## JJG

Bori427 said:


> Renovation? It would have to be built all over again...


... I wouldn't say that. 

They could just refurbish the cement on the existing stands then just add another section. Replace the press box, and it's good to go for pro soccer.

What stadium is that, btw?


----------



## noize

Sorry for the off-topic, but how are the tv ratings for MLS this year?


----------



## ielag

JJG said:


> What stadium is that, btw?


Charlotte Legion Memorial Stadium


----------



## bd popeye

_Off topic._



noize said:


> Sorry for the off-topic, but how are the tv ratings for MLS this year?


Not even on the radar.. After the World Cup there was a push but since then.. no where in sight.

Check out what are the top three....

*US Ratings for the week ending September 14, 2014* 

Good article here;

*Generational change needed for MLS ratings to improve*

_End off topic._


----------



## JJG

ielag said:


> Charlotte Legion Memorial Stadium





















Oh yeah, I can definitely see a simple renovation to make this stadium MLS ready.


----------



## noize

bd popeye said:


> _Off topic._
> 
> 
> 
> Not even on the radar.. After the World Cup there was a push but since then.. no where in sight.
> 
> Check out what are the top three....
> 
> *US Ratings for the week ending September 14, 2014*
> 
> Good article here;
> 
> *Generational change needed for MLS ratings to improve*
> 
> _End off topic._


But had an improve compare to 5 or 10 years a go, even if it's minimal?? Or is in the same?


----------



## bd popeye

noize said:


> But had an improve compare to 5 or 10 years a go, even if it's minimal?? Or is in the same?


I'm sure the ratings have improved somewhat.. but still the average MLS game attracts only 250,000 viewers or less. The EPL has usually around a half million viewers in the US.


----------



## GunnerJacket

noize said:


> But had an improve compare to 5 or 10 years a go, even if it's minimal?? Or is in the same?


Here's the link to the MLS TV ratings thread on BigSoccer.com. The most recent tally in that thread is summarized thusly:

_NBC Sports Network (all ratings for 2.5 hour window unless specified)
26 games
Average: 154k

ESPN2 (all ratings are for a 2.5 hour window unless specified)
10 Games
Average: 258k (does not include all star game)

ESPN(all ratings are for 2 hour window unless specified)
Game 1: 495k (KC vs CHI) Sunday 3:00pm 7/6/2014

Unimas
All Star Game: 410k (MLS vs Bayern Munich) Wednesday 9:30pm 8/6/2014

NBC
Game 1: (LA vs POR) Saturday 2:30pm 8/2/2014
Final: 409k_

...

The general takeaway is this:

- Viewership for showcase games has not changed too much, but the total volume of exposure and average viewership for regular games has shown slight increases.

- MLS on TV is hampered by two things: The lack of regular games on during prime slots, and the increased competition for live sports viewership. The MLS season overlaps all four other major sports, so it's competing for fans with the back halves of the NHL and NBA seasons, the full MLB season and of course the start of (American) football. Good luck commanding viewers away from those sports. So it's essentially a paradox - MLS can't gain more viewers without a regular spot, and they can't get a decent regular spot without enough viewers to warrant showcasing the league instead of, say, MLB of college football. 

- The new contracts that kick in next season will help with regard to regular times, but those are Friday and Sunday nights and not always on the biggest networks. As the article linked a few posts above points out, what is needed is time for the league to develop more core fans who can make an impact. Look for advanced distribution through other media, as well. I watch a lot of games online.

- It's unfair to compare ratings versus the Premiership because those games are almost exclusively on in the early mornings. ie: They're not being shown at the same time as MLB playoffs or college football. And when they do feature highlight games on Saturday afternoons at 12:30, they're either big enough to get NBC level exposure (more TV sets and eyes) and/or showcasing the biggest teams going. Brands like Man U and Liverpool have over a century of appeal and familiarity. Only 8 MLS teams have been around since before 2000, and 4 of those have undergone rebranding!


----------



## GunnerJacket

JJG said:


> Oh yeah, I can definitely see a simple renovation to make this stadium MLS ready.


While the bowl is viable it's what lies "behind the curtain" that would take some doing. From the looks of it you would need to demolish the top half of the tier closest to the buildings in order to make enough space for modern concession areas, so you might as well use this space to build upward for providing all/most of the premium seats, suites and media space. Then you could complete a wrap around the remaining exterior to provide common concession space, which would still eat into the parking. You're not going to add much to the existing end zone so expansion down the line would come almost exclusively at the open end, unless you can afford to buy up adjoining properties. 

Taken altogether that would likely see you a capacity around 18,000k (using legit seats), and possible max site capacity under 24k. One man's guess.

Didn't the UNCC 49ers opt not to use this facility? If so it suggests the costs for renovations might not prove fruitful. Granted, that was for a college program with only 5-7 home games. 18+ for a pro franchise might make the numbers work.


----------



## KingmanIII

ielag said:


> The owners of the new Charlotte Independence franchise in USLPro want to go the Orlando and Sacramento route. Draw well in USLPro, hopefully attract a big money investor for MLS, and of course Charlotte is the banking capital of the South.
> 
> They have a good stadium location but it's very old and would require a renovation for MLS standards.


could they play at Jerry Richardson for a while?


----------



## JJG

GunnerJacket said:


> While the bowl is viable it's what lies "behind the curtain" that would take some doing. From the looks of it you would need to demolish the top half of the tier closest to the buildings in order to make enough space for modern concession areas, so you might as well use this space to build upward for providing all/most of the premium seats, suites and media space.


So in other words, an open concorse...?


----------



## GunnerJacket

This is all rather moot because I noticed on Google Maps that Memorial Stadium has already been renovated to a much lower capacity. There is a parking deck in the adjoining lot and the upper portion of the tier closest to the parking has been removed. Plus the seating in the bowl has been removed for a decorative lawn. 



KingmanIII said:


> could they play at Jerry Richardson for a while?


Unless the University allows alcohol sales I don't think it would prove all that viable. But the venue could certainly work.



JJG said:


> So in other words, an open concorse...?


No, I was thinking there would be fully enclosed concourse amenities at the ground level but then suites and press boxes above. Only that in order to accommodate the space for this you would need more room than currently provided.


----------



## carnifex2005

That BMO renovation is looking awesome.

Here's a Vine of the new safe standing section being built in San Jose's new stadium...

https://vine.co/v/O71xTVAEUaY

I'd love to see that come to BMO.


----------



## RMB2007

Strangest safe standing section I've ever seen. Massive distance between the barriers and the rake also looks awfully shallow. Hopefully Orlando's will be far superior to that.


----------



## carnifex2005

Here's another pic of the standing section...


----------



## master_klon

The main supporter group has been relocated to two sections of the upper tier, because of complaints that the standing section is too small for the group and also too shallow for tifo. The club designed the lower tier to be shallow to allow for views from the bar towards the field. Now the two other supporter groups will be located in the standing section.

The club has not allowed safe standing terraces to be installed in the upper tier, much to the anger of the ultras. Not sure if this has to do with the plan for QUAKES to be spelt out in the seating, or because of the long time feud between the ultras and the club.

At least Kaval isn't in Portland. :banana:


----------



## GunnerJacket

Compared to the earlier concept images this latest version makes me feel a lot better about the potential here. I'm still leery about the end closest to us in this picture (west?), which is where they'll be making the compromises for potential CFL accommodations and temporary seating space. Overall, though this is solid and a great testament to the TFC fans and to MLS in general.

Curious, though - This image makes it look like both sides will have matching stands, whereas I thought currently the side with the two tier stand features shorter tiers.


ChesterCopperpot said:


>


----------



## will101

Found this on the Quakes site, on the page for stadium/construction tours, and I didn't recall seeing it before. Looks to be maybe a week old.


----------



## master_klon

The photo is actually from mid July, but thanks for posting it.


Columbus Crew will release their new logo on October 08.


----------



## will101

master_klon said:


> The photo is actually from mid July, but thanks for posting it.


You're right. Lack of paving around the stadium, absence of scoreboard panels and spectator railing (especially in the '1906 zone'). And the turf area has a different texture since they installed the drainage.

What I get for posting on a busy day. I'm actually watching a repeat of the first episode of _Sherlock_ right now, and I can almost feel Benedict Cumberbatch looking over my shoulder and making brutally snide comments.


----------



## Guest

Kerrybai said:


> Another great addition to the MLS. 19k average per game is on the horizon now.


Not only will San Jose significantly lift, but there will be no more Chivas, at least in their current incarnation, to depress attendances as they have so much this year. 

Incoming Orlando, New York, Atlanta and _Sacramento _will all seemingly draw, at worst, the league average. Orlando and Sacramento will both have what? 18-20k seaters? Orlando might also host an odd rivalry game at the Citrus Bowl. At best, NYC and Atlanta will draw 5,000+ above league average.


----------



## NME22

5portsF4n said:


> Not only will San Jose significantly lift, but there will be no more Chivas, at least in their current incarnation, to depress attendances as they have so much this year.
> 
> Incoming Orlando, New York, Atlanta and _Sacramento _will all seemingly draw, at worst, the league average. Orlando and Sacramento will both have what? 18-20k seaters? Orlando might also host an odd rivalry game at the Citrus Bowl. At best, NYC and Atlanta will draw 5,000+ above league average.


About 22k seat stadium planned for Sacramento. Will definitely draw well for both San Jose and Sac with those rivalry games.


----------



## Bori427

I think Atlanta will have an attendance above 25,000


----------



## JJG

Bori427 said:


> I think Atlanta will have an attendance above 25,000


Eh.... it'll be lower than that.


----------



## carnifex2005

noize said:


> Sorry for the off-topic, but how are the tv ratings for MLS this year?


MLS viewership up 51% on ESPN/ESPN2 and up 46% on NBCSN

So while the total viewership is small, it is growing.


----------



## Guest

JJG said:


> Eh.... it'll be lower than that.


They have 15,000 season tickets pledges today - a team starting play in 2017. This is a team that has no name, no identity, and no idea what the roster will be like, or who the marquee players will be. 

The drop off may happen as they start their 2nd, 3rd, 4th... seasons, but there is every good reason to believe 25,000 in the first season will be a breeze. With capacity capped at 29,000, Atlanta could defy all expectations and have a sold out debut season. With the debut still 2.5 years away, I'm not ruling anything out.


----------



## bd popeye

carnifex2005 said:


> MLS viewership up 51% on ESPN/ESPN2 and up 46% on NBCSN
> 
> So while the total viewership is small, it is growing.


Thanks for posting that link...I had it once but lost it..now I've found it again.

While the MLS may never catch up with the NFL or NCAA football tv ratings wise...the *national broadcast* of MLB is well within the MLS sights..

MLB lowest national ratings ever

However I must state that local broadcast of MLB games boast a very strong viewership.

MLB Telecasts On Regional Sports Networks Dominate Prime Time


----------



## Kerrybai

bd popeye said:


> Thanks for posting that link...I had it once but lost it..now I've found it again.
> 
> While the MLS may never catch up with the NFL or NCAA football tv ratings wise...the *national broadcast* of MLB is well within the MLS sights..
> 
> MLB lowest national ratings ever
> 
> However I must state that local broadcast of MLB games boast a very strong viewership.
> 
> MLB Telecasts On Regional Sports Networks Dominate Prime Time


I think it's a pretty dead cert that MLS won't catch up with the NFL as it has to compete with European soccer, at least not for another generation anyway.


----------



## weava

Kerrybai said:


> I think it's a pretty dead cert that MLS won't catch up with the NFL as* it has to compete with European soccer*, at least not for another generation anyway.


the numbers aren't that far apart. If MLS ratings keep slowly going up, they could see 500k viewers for a game in the near future (still tiny) and the English games have been going down in ratings as their newness is wearing off and the world cup buzz is fading. Under 700k watched the English Premier game last week.


----------



## Guest

With 4 rounds to go in the regular season, MLS has set a season record for sellouts at 113 (of 221 games so far).


----------



## KingmanIII

bd popeye said:


> Thanks for posting that link...I had it once but lost it..now I've found it again.
> 
> While the MLS may never catch up with the NFL or NCAA football tv ratings wise...the *national broadcast* of MLB is well within the MLS sights..
> 
> MLB lowest national ratings ever
> 
> However I must state that local broadcast of MLB games boast a very strong viewership.
> 
> MLB Telecasts On Regional Sports Networks Dominate Prime Time


I speculate that down years for the Yanks and Sox and up years for small-market clubs such as the Pirates and Royals have something to do with it.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Kerrybai said:


> I think it's a pretty dead cert that MLS won't catch up with the NFL as *it has to compete with European soccer*, at least not for another generation anyway.


The more I think about it the more I don't think that aspect plays into the TV ratings at all, personally. The games are on at different times and most MLS supporters I know have a European or Latin club they follow in addition to the domestic league, and whatever amount of viewers turn off NBCSN after the EPL from footie fatigue are likely balanced by those who tune in only because they catch the cross promotion. I'd have to guess the percentage of folks who simply don't watch MLS due to the poorer quality of play has to be pretty small because footie fans just like footie and they realize the long-term appeal a good MLS can deliver. 

I simply think it's a matter of time and organically growing the base to where the core viewership is sizable enough to register nationally without relying on casual viewers from other sports to join the party. It's simply tough to lure those folks in when they're so easily distracted by the NBA, NHL, MLB, NFL and college sports all available at the same time as MLS. 



weava said:


> the numbers aren't that far apart. If MLS ratings keep slowly going up, they could see 500k viewers for a game in the near future (still tiny) and the English games have been going down in ratings as their newness is wearing off and the world cup buzz is fading. Under 700k watched the English Premier game last week.


Doesn't the EPL viewership take a hit once football kicks in? More casual fans turning over to Gameday and such?



KingmanIII said:


> I speculate that down years for the Yanks and Sox and up years for small-market clubs such as the Pirates and Royals have something to do with it.


You'd think the Jeter farewell tour might counteract some of that, but I'm not a big baseball fan.


----------



## WesTexas

What we need is small local contracts that show the game locally to the entire region instead of just the city. I would love to watch the local FC Dallas ffed for their games up here in the Texas Panhandle, but i cant. I can only see Dallas play once a month on ESPN or NBCSports.


----------



## Archbishop

WesTexas said:


> What we need is small local contracts that show the game locally to the entire region instead of just the city. I would love to watch the local FC Dallas ffed for their games up here in the Texas Panhandle, but i cant. I can only see Dallas play once a month on ESPN or NBCSports.


That might just be a Dallas thing because other teams do have local contracts.


----------



## will101

Archbishop said:


> That might just be a Dallas thing because other teams do have local contracts.


Quakes games go all across northern California on one of the two sports channels. Which probably includes metro Reno.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

Looks like Chivas is being sold for 100 million and will go on hiatus for 2 years... Looks like a new stadium in Expo park is in the works

http://www.espnfc.us/major-league-s...uspend-operations-after-mls-seasonsources-say


----------



## Archbishop

It would be great for the league to have a team playing in Expo Park, even if it means having a team on "hiatus".


----------



## Kerrybai

GunnerJacket said:


> I still don't understand some of the crowds reported for this league, because several of those cities, as best as I can tell, lack the depth of middle-class income families to turn out in such droves. Especially for what's considered a third-rate league right now. Is it simply that tickets are dirt cheap? Is it the relative lack of team sports to fill the entertainment void?
> 
> It sure as heck isn't the venues!


It has been reported that some of the smaller teams announce inflated attendances while other teams have announced deflated attendances so I wouldn't take the average as gospel. 

However looking at season ticket prices they seem pretty cheap.
http://wildeastfootball.net/2012/02...hikes-across-the-country-but-still-a-bargain/

Anywhere from about 35 to 130 dollars for 15 games. Of course we would consider that dirt cheap but I don't know how that reflects on the average Chinese salary. Most tickets come with a free replica jersey too.

The attendances are rising fast too.

2004 10,838
2005 10,284
2006 10,611
2007 15,112
2008 13,444
2009 16,059
2010 14,581
2011 17,651
2012 18,740
2013 18,905 (as of Aug 18)

My guess is that a ticket that cheap is pretty affordable for a large number of Chinese today.


----------



## slipperydog

GunnerJacket said:


> I don't think anything is formally decided. Right now it's about coming to consensus about the best course of actions and regarding Chivas it appears that they'd rather pull a San Jose-like hiatus rather than force-feed everyone on some quick makeover. *Personally I think it's for the best because then the league can keep the even number of teams and give the rebooted LA2 franchise a real chance at escaping the Chivas legacy.*


League symmetry aside, the hiatus is definitely the smart move. It will help the perception of a new franchise. The fact that the league has specifically pointed out the Sports Arena site is very encouraging. They seem to see what we’ve been suggesting for years. A new Coliseum-adjacent Chivas stadium in Expo Park makes a lot of sense, given its proximity to downtown, Mid-City, K-Town, Hollywood, the Westside, and Pasadena, as well as its public transport links. It’s such a superior site compared to Stubhub, which sits in a suburban/industrial area and is a complete headache for much of the 25-40 demographic to get to. In a brand new stadium along with the right ownership, branding, and marketing, I am very bullish about the club’s opportunity to surpass the Galaxy, which has suffered from complacency.


----------



## Archbishop

A picture of a mocked-up MLS stadium next to the Coliseum.










This was done by the Coliseum Commission in 2010. It shows how they are willing and wanting to be involved with MLS there. An environmental study was also done. I think this could get done very swiftly if the ownership group is willing.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Kerrybai said:


> However looking at season ticket prices they seem pretty cheap.
> http://wildeastfootball.net/2012/02...hikes-across-the-country-but-still-a-bargain/
> 
> ...
> 
> The attendances are rising fast too.
> 
> 2004 10,838
> ...
> 2013 18,905 (as of Aug 18)


Thanks for the link. I certainly can't dispute the growth seeing as how similar things are happening in the US, Australia, Korea, etc. I just thought it was surprising given the struggles in luring and retaining international stars and the stories of the various subsidies involved. So on one hand the press suggests a struggling business venture but the growth is still occurring. 

Well heaven knows Asia has the potential to truly come into its own. Their federation is desperate for the Asian Champions League to garner global interest. Tough sledding without any historic brands, though. At least CONCACAF and CONMEBOL have clubs like America, Santos and Boca Juniors to tap into.



slipperydog said:


> A new Coliseum-adjacent Chivas stadium in Expo Park makes a lot of sense, given its proximity to downtown, Mid-City, K-Town, Hollywood, the Westside, and Pasadena, as well as its public transport links. It’s such a superior site compared to Stubhub, which sits in a suburban/industrial area and is a complete headache for much of the 25-40 demographic to get to. In a brand new stadium along with the right ownership, branding, and marketing, I am very bullish about the club’s opportunity to surpass the Galaxy, which has suffered from complacency.


Which makes me wonder if there is anything comparable to the other big leagues in MLS needing to "protect" the Galaxy's interests as they enable this rebranding. 

Is there anyway for the Galaxy to work with the University in improving their terms at the Stub? Allowing more butts for midweek games, perhaps. Can they renovate some of the site to make things more viable for both the school and the team?


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

GunnerJacket said:


> Thanks for the link. I certainly can't dispute the growth seeing as how similar things are happening in the US, Australia, Korea, etc. I just thought it was surprising given the struggles in luring and retaining international stars and the stories of the various subsidies involved. So on one hand the press suggests a struggling business venture but the growth is still occurring.
> 
> Well heaven knows Asia has the potential to truly come into its own. Their federation is desperate for the Asian Champions League to garner global interest. Tough sledding without any historic brands, though. At least CONCACAF and CONMEBOL have clubs like America, Santos and Boca Juniors to tap into.
> 
> Which makes me wonder if there is anything comparable to the other big leagues in MLS needing to "protect" the Galaxy's interests as they enable this rebranding.
> 
> Is there anyway for the Galaxy to work with the University in improving their terms at the Stub? Allowing more butts for midweek games, perhaps. Can they renovate some of the site to make things more viable for both the school and the team?


I think the best bet for the Galaxy is that if Farmers Field comes to fruition to play out the next 3 - 5 years there and then move to Farmers once completed. The Galaxy can easily draw 35 - 40k a game if the games werent in butt****. A downtown stadium would be an awesome experience and since AEG would own both stadiums, i could see it happening. Of course, it all depends on Farmers being built, but thats my dream.

In regards to a Chivas stadium at Expo Park... its the ideal location. I took the expo line to the Colosieum this weekend for the USC game and the trains were packed with lines around the block. Its very accessible to millions of people in the right demographic (not to mention 45000 USC students next door) so this could be a very successful location


----------



## Lupin III

Eh Korea? Do you guys know what going in Korea? Exactly not well attendances has been wrong all the time and clubs reported seriously too high numbers to avoid looking bad. After the complete league restructure 2 years ago you can see clubs having 10k in attendances are down to 2-3k.

If you wanna talk about a league in asia developing its the Thai league, but basically that league is developing to a J-League Thailand branch.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Lupin III said:


> Eh Korea? Do you guys know what going in Korea? Exactly not well attendances has been wrong all the time and clubs reported seriously too high numbers to avoid looking bad. After the complete league restructure 2 years ago you can see clubs having 10k in attendances are down to 2-3k.
> 
> If you wanna talk about a league in asia developing its the Thai league, but basically that league is developing to a J-League Thailand branch.


Didn't know they'd regressed so. Article I read a year or two ago painted a rosier picture. Sorry to hear it's struggling.


----------



## Kerrybai

GunnerJacket said:


> Thanks for the link. I certainly can't dispute the growth seeing as how similar things are happening in the US, Australia, Korea, etc. I just thought it was surprising given the struggles in luring and retaining international stars and the stories of the various subsidies involved. So on one hand the press suggests a struggling business venture but the growth is still occurring.
> 
> Well heaven knows Asia has the potential to truly come into its own. Their federation is desperate for the Asian Champions League to garner global interest. Tough sledding without any historic brands, though. At least CONCACAF and CONMEBOL have clubs like America, Santos and Boca Juniors to tap into.


Even the Indians are giving it a go now with an MLS style franchise league. I believe they have a few big names like Del Piero and a trying to imitate the success of the MLS and Indian premier league ( cricket ). 

Although I am Slightly worried that a bankrupt David James has been chosen as a coach for one of the 8 franchises. :lol:


----------



## Lupin III

Kerrybai said:


> Even the Indians are giving it a go now with an MLS style franchise league. I believe they have a few big names like Del Piero and a trying to imitate the success of the MLS and Indian premier league ( cricket ).
> 
> Even Burmese league are trying this model.
> 
> Although I am Slightly worried that a bankrupt David James has been chosen as a coach for one of the 8 franchises. :lol:


The thing is Japanese and Southkorean Leagues needs Thai, Indian, Indonesian leagues to develop.

Firstly being more or less the only developed leagues in an underdeveloped regions make it difficult for players to go abroad. Japanese Leagues wanting to take other asian players than southkorean in so they can sell the league to the other Asian countries, but firstly the players are too poor and too expensive.

Older Japanese players or players not good enough in Japan or south korea needs to have some places to transfer to. One of the reasons why Korean league is declining is the poorer of the players in korea are trying to earn money in other ways as through matchfixing (the scandal 2 years ago).


----------



## krudmonk

In less exciting para-stadium news, the link between Santa Clara Caltrain and the Epicenter should be done next year: http://www.mercurynews.com/mr-roadshow/ci_26612615/roadshow-solving-chp-mystery-i-280


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

more info coming out about the Chivas sale... Looks like things could be final by Monday

http://www.thegoatparade.com/2014/9...t-tan-among-group-to-buy-chivas-usa-franchise


----------



## ielag

Most interesting thing about Wahl's report is that the ownership group is looking at a site near Staples Center, not necessarily the Sports Arena site.


----------



## RFSK

How does La Dragons sound? :-D

Considering what tan did with Cardiff city, changing the colors to red and a Dragon in the team crest i don't think that it would be that far fetched


----------



## BlazerBlaze

will101 said:


> I would. Ignorant right-wing blowharding aside, the environmental review process in California happens for every major or moderate project. There are firms who specialize in environmental reviews, and can crank out the report in weeks. Especially in cases like this one, where the proposed land use is almost identical to the old one.


Its called a joke. No need to start attacking personal ideology. :cheers:


----------



## Kerrybai

http://www.sacrepublicfc.com/sacram...ip-match-averages-1-6-tv-rating/#.VCs1svldWSq

Sacramento Republic FC announced today that Saturday’s 2014 USL PRO Championship broadcast on CW31 averaged a 1.6 household rating and a 2.4 rating in the key male 18-34 demographic.

Republic FC’s 1.6 rating in homes was better than the 1.5 rating for the Notre Dame versus Syracuse college football game, which experienced a drop in ratings at the start of the Republic FC match. The Baylor versus Iowa State college football game averaged a rating 1.3 and saw the same ratings decline when the Republic FC match began. The Republic FC match also outdrew both college football games in all key demographics.


----------



## slipperydog

ielag said:


> Most interesting thing about Wahl's report is that the ownership group is looking at a site near Staples Center, not necessarily the Sports Arena site.


Pretty sure they're referring to the Sports Arena.


----------



## ielag

slipperydog said:


> Pretty sure they're referring to the Sports Arena.


Wahl mentioned them separately, I'm pretty sure his sources would have said the Sports Arena site specifically.



> The group has committed to building a new soccer stadium in Los Angeles. Sources tell SI.com that two sites they are interested in are in downtown L.A. (“not far from the Staples Center”) and near the Hollywood Park racetrack. The league has spoken about a possible site near the current L.A. Sports Arena.


"Not far from Staples Center" makes me think somewhere within a few blocks of Staples, not 2.5 miles away.

I do think the Sports Arena site is certainly in play though.


----------



## slipperydog

ielag said:


> Wahl mentioned them separately, I'm pretty sure his sources would have said the Sports Arena site specifically.


I'm guessing his source is just going on hearsay and simply isn't very familiar with downtown LA's geography. That's why Wahl followed up the source's statement with a qualifying mention of the Sports Arena. The Sports Arena is really the only spot a soccer stadium could go in the general vicinity of downtown, unless I'm missing something.


----------



## carnifex2005

slipperydog said:


> I'm guessing his source is just going on hearsay and simply isn't very familiar with downtown LA's geography. That's why Wahl followed up the source's statement with a qualifying mention of the Sports Arena. The Sports Arena is really the only spot a soccer stadium could go in the general vicinity of downtown, unless I'm missing something.


I had heard talk of building a NFL stadium on land the Dodgers own by Dodger stadium. Not sure if it is practical but that could be a potential location for a new SSS as well.


----------



## will101

Lupin III said:


> So MLS will play with 20 teams next year and not 21 teams?!


An even number of teams? Oh, the humanity! 

But seriously, yes, it looks that way. We'll see how the Galaxy does without an underachieving roommate for a while. Maybe their plans to move to Inglewood will be finalized by the time the Ex-Chivas returns.


----------



## tinyslam

This is Silverback Park home of the Atlanta Silverbacks an NASL team. I don't know if anyone's really interested in the last place team in the NASL but here is where they play. I think it's about a 5,000 seat stadium.

From a corner flag:









And 2 from our seats. The view is of the home stands. A lot of the stadium is just general admission so there are no assigned seats which is pretty nice. Plus the tickets were only $15.


----------



## aaronniuk

tinyslam said:


> This is Silverback Park home of the Atlanta Silverbacks an NASL team. I don't know if anyone's really interested in the last place team in the NASL but here is where they play. I think it's about a 5,000 seat stadium.
> 
> From a corner flag:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And 2 from our seats. The view is of the home stands. A lot of the stadium is just general admission so there are no assigned seats which is pretty nice. Plus the tickets were only $15.


I'd fear for this teams future when an Atlanta team joins the MLS, unless the Silverbacks are joining the MLS instead of a new franchise.


----------



## Bori427

2017 is the year aaronniuk.


----------



## bd popeye

MLS attendance is now averaging 19,028 a game!

*MLS 2014 Attendance blogspot Week 30*


----------



## bd popeye

I just discovered...The Washington Post sports page post actual game attendance & results of the MLS.. week by week...

*MLS Weekly Scoreboard | The Washington Post*

07.10.2014 to 07.13.2014 attendance;

Seattle...CenturyLink Field (Attendance: 55,765).._Wow!_

New York....Red Bull Arena (Attendance: 24,068)

Houston....BBVA Compass Stadium (Attendance: 21,869)

Portland....Providence Park (Attendance: 20,814)

Real Salt Lake...Rio Tinto Stadium (Attendance: 20,701)

Dallas FC...Toyota Stadium (Attendance: 19,039)

Sporting KC...Sporting Park (Attendance: 18,938)

Toronto FC....BMO Field (Attendance: 18,269)

Philadelphia....PPL Park (Attendance: 15,849)

Montreal....Stade Saputo (Attendance: 14,389)

Chivas USA....StubHub Center (Attendance: 5,033)


----------



## Bori427

Heineken, the official Beer of the MLS!


----------



## GunnerJacket

Wow, 14k for Montreal? Haven't checked on them in a while. I know the side is struggling but I'd pegged them for possibly sustaining 18k regardless.


----------



## WesTexas

Go Dallas! I know a lot of people came out to see LD for the last time, but the teams numbers have been up.

here is a cool little thing I found on on Uni Watch about creating the Miami identity study.
http://diegoguevara.com/blog/2014/10/07/latest-project-miami-mls-team-2/


----------



## carnifex2005

GunnerJacket said:


> Wow, 14k for Montreal? Haven't checked on them in a while. I know the side is struggling but I'd pegged them for possibly sustaining 18k regardless.


Well they are the 2nd worst team in the league and it is the start of hockey season, so it will always be an issue in that scenario.


----------



## Arseniq33

carnifex2005 said:


> Well they are the 2nd worst team in the league and it is the start of hockey season, so it will always be an issue in that scenario.


Things should go back on track when we draw 50 000+ for our Champions League quarterfinals game.


----------



## JJG

WesTexas said:


> here is a cool little thing I found on on Uni Watch about creating the Miami identity study.
> http://diegoguevara.com/blog/2014/10/07/latest-project-miami-mls-team-2/


Man, that almost looks legit!


----------



## SounderBruce

bd popeye said:


> I just discovered...The Washington Post sports page post actual game attendance & results of the MLS.. week by week...


IWillKickU on the MLS subreddit also does a weekly roundup of attendances for any competition in the United States and Canada, for example this week's list.


----------



## bd popeye

Thanks for that link SounderBruce!^^

For those of you that don't know SSC has an Football attendance thread;

*Average Attendance - All Football Codes*


----------



## Lumbergo

aaronniuk said:


> I'd fear for this teams future when an Atlanta team joins the MLS, unless the Silverbacks are joining the MLS instead of a new franchise.


well here's the thing - the Silverbacks are located 12.5 miles (bird's eye) from where the future Atlanta Falcons stadium will be. the NASL has been attracting decent numbers lately and with this team located way out in the suburbs one can only assume / hope that they will retain some loyal fans even with the MLS competition in their backyard.


----------



## Lumbergo

WesTexas said:


> here is a cool little thing I found on on Uni Watch about creating the Miami identity study.
> http://diegoguevara.com/blog/2014/10/07/latest-project-miami-mls-team-2/


holy crap! becks needs to hire that guy immediately. the last thing a Miami team needs is to end up looking like the Marlins and this guy nailed it. :cheers:


----------



## SounderBruce

Sounders and Timbers both have reserve teams now. Sounders 2/S2 and Timbers 2/T2 will begin play in 2015 at Starfire Sports (Tukwila, capacity of 4,500) and Merlo Field (University of Portland, capacity of 4,892), respectively. Both have some degree of fan-management, with the Sounders' team being 20 percent owned by the "Sounders Community Trust" and the first 1,975 ticket holders of T2 being involved in matchday decisions.

More information: Sounders FC 2 on Wikipedia, T2 on Wikipedia



> *Sounders FC Unveils Second Team Sounders FC 2*
> October 14, 2014 - Seattle Sounders FC Public Relations
> 
> SEATTLE, WASH. – Seattle Sounders FC announced today the launch of Sounders FC 2, a USL PRO team that will begin operations in 2015 at Starfire Sports. The team, known as S2, will operate under the management of Sounders FC and the Sounders Community Trust, an unprecedented, fan-owned organization that will hold a 20-percent interest in the team.





> *Portland Timbers announce USL PRO team, T2*
> October 14, 2014 - Portland Timbers Communications
> 
> PORTLAND, Ore. – The Portland Timbers today announced that the club has formed Timbers 2 (to be referred to as T2), a professional team that will compete in USL PRO, a division of US Soccer below Major League Soccer.
> 
> T2 will begin competing in USL PRO during the 2015 season and play their home games at Merlo Field on the campus of the University of Portland. The team will train at the club’s adidas Timbers Training Center in Beaverton, Ore.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Lumbergo said:


> well here's the thing - the Silverbacks are located 12.5 miles (bird's eye) from where the future Atlanta Falcons stadium will be. the NASL has been attracting decent numbers lately and with this team located way out in the suburbs one can only assume / hope that they will retain some loyal fans even with the MLS competition in their backyard.


Much of that uptick in support has com from the Terminus Legion, the supporter's group formed to help bring MLS to Atlanta. We support all things soccer in Atlanta so for now that means regular appearances at Silverback's park. That being said I doubt the market is there for both teams to coexist and many of us fully expect the 'Backs to relocate. Once the MLS club starts then all the casual support and interest will flow there, and I'm not sure how lucrative the NASL club would be without that. 

I'm not saying it's impossible, just unlikely.


----------



## master_klon

Great news for the PNW. Vancouver should also have a USL Pro team soon.


----------



## SounderBruce

master_klon said:


> Great news for the PNW. Vancouver should also have a USL Pro team soon.


Either they get the New Westminster city council to reconsider their rejection of the 2015 plan or the Whitecaps USL Pro team moves elsewhere.

I don't see them playing until 2016.


----------



## slipperydog

With the exception of NYC FC, it appears as if every MLS club will have a USL affiliate in 2015.


----------



## JJG

Archbishop said:


> Horse and dog racing: Not popular anymore and takes up a lot of land. Enough for big stadiums.


Makes sense.


----------



## Bori427

Botev1912 said:


> you also don't see anything shameful with the Soccer Club (SC), but consider FC shameful.


I said to someone that if you consider SC to be shameful, imo FC is a lot more shameful. Don't know why some americans want to be such eurosnobs...


----------



## will101

Bori427 said:


> I said to someone that if you consider SC to be shameful, imo FC is a lot more shameful. Don't know why some americans want to be such eurosnobs...


It's a big country, and some people have to go to great lengths to latch onto something that stands out from the crowd.

Personally, I think the use of either is kind of a joke. But not as bad as calling a team ROYAL Salt Lake (that's what it translates to).


----------



## eMKay

Karate_Kev said:


> seems a shame the MLS and the NASL don't have a relegation/promotion system


That's pretty ignorant of you, and that's a shame.


----------



## Bori427

will101 said:


> It's a big country, and some people have to go to great lengths to latch onto something that stands out from the crowd.
> 
> Personally, I think the use of either is kind of a joke. But not as bad as calling a team ROYAL Salt Lake (that's what it translates to).


Well, it might not make sense but it sure sounds better than a lot of other names in MLS...


----------



## Kerrybai

will101 said:


> It's a big country, and some people have to go to great lengths to latch onto something that stands out from the crowd.
> 
> Personally, I think the use of either is kind of a joke. But not as bad as calling a team ROYAL Salt Lake (that's what it translates to).


Out of all the MLS teams thats the one name that really stinks... naming your club after a team propped up by a facist dictator... I don't mind some clubs taking some Euro type names such as DC United, but Real Salt Lake! 

Salt Lake City works perfectly fine. But heck lets not get bogged down in the smaller details.


----------



## carnifex2005

Kerrybai said:


> Out of all the MLS teams thats the one name that really stinks... naming your club after a team propped up by a facist dictator... I don't mind some clubs taking some Euro type names such as DC United, but Real Salt Lake!
> 
> Salt Lake City works perfectly fine. But heck lets not get bogged down in the smaller details.


Real Salt Lake was supposed to be the Salt Lake City Highlanders because it beat out RSL in a fan vote but the owner overruled the choice and picked Real anyways because he thought it sounded good. Ugh.


----------



## Kerrybai

carnifex2005 said:


> Real Salt Lake was supposed to be the Salt Lake City Highlanders because it beat out RSL in a fan vote but the owner overruled the choice and picked Real anyways because he thought it sounded good. Ugh.


Salt Lake City Highlanders is a bit much too though imo. How about just Salt Lake Highlanders or Salt Lake City. 4 words is kinda over kill but still much better than RSL.


----------



## General_Xatruch

matthemod said:


> Only way it could feasibly exist, is if the MLS propose an "MLS 2nd Division" that is within their ownership, and offer some sort of financial compensation to teams who suffer relegation.
> 
> For this to happen it would be in the distant future and rely on the popularity of the sport, and the T.V. revenues to skyrocket.


Yeah, maybe in the future but right now it wouldn't be appropiate to have a relegation/promotion system. This new teams are a huge investment and no one would like to "create" a club having the risk of relegation. Right now MLS should worry about attracting fans to the sport and most important to the teams. In some years if the MLS gets big enough maybe they can start to consider a MLS Second Division or something like that.


----------



## master-chivas

OOOWWWWWW.... look ath those Orlando fans.. look how cute they are :3


----------



## Guest

Kerrybai said:


> Salt Lake City Highlanders is a bit much too though imo. How about just Salt Lake Highlanders or Salt Lake City. 4 words is kinda over kill but still much better than RSL.


RSL > Salt Lake City Highlanders.

I think for anyone who has followed the league longer than a few years, Real Salt Lake cannot be anything other than Real Salt Lake. The RSL abbreviation is part of the lexicon of American soccer. 



General_Xatruch said:


> Yeah, maybe in the future but right now it wouldn't be appropiate to have a relegation/promotion system. This new teams are a huge investment and no one would like to "create" a club having the risk of relegation. *Right now MLS should worry about attracting fans to the sport and most important to the teams.*
> 
> *In some years if the MLS gets big enough maybe they can start to consider a MLS Second Division or something like that*.


Doing just fine thanks. Due to average over 20,000 next season. How's the Honduran league doing? 

The bigger MLS gets, the smaller the chance for promotion/relegation. Ponder that for a moment.


----------



## bd popeye

5portsF4n said:


> Doing just fine thanks. Due to average over 20,000 next season. How's the Honduran league doing?
> 
> The bigger MLS gets, the smaller the chance for promotion/relegation. Ponder that for a moment.


That's right^^ the more the billionaire/millionaire owners pay for a *franchise* in the *MLS* the less likely promotion/relegation will ever be in the US. 

AND I don't think the US soccer fan would ever agree to the promotion/relegation system. It is not part of the US sporting culture. It's just not.

That's how we roll in the US.

One last thing..we've had this discussion many times in the past in this thread..


----------



## General_Xatruch

5portsF4n said:


> RSL > Salt Lake City Highlanders.
> 
> I think for anyone who has followed the league longer than a few years, Real Salt Lake cannot be anything other than Real Salt Lake. The RSL abbreviation is part of the lexicon of American soccer.
> 
> 
> 
> Doing just fine thanks. Due to average over 20,000 next season. How's the Honduran league doing?
> 
> The bigger MLS gets, the smaller the chance for promotion/relegation. Ponder that for a moment.




Im talking about TV contracts, that's where the real money is. MLS is improving this every year but they are still far from the Mexican league for example. If the MLS gets big enough eventually there wont be room for any other team at the top tier and then is when a second division can happen.


----------



## carnifex2005

General_Xatruch said:


> Im talking about TV contracts, that's where the real money is. MLS is improving this every year but they are still far from the Mexican league for example. If the MLS gets big enough eventually there wont be room for any other team at the top tier and then is when a second division can happen.


In the US, no one cares about the 2nd division unless it is college football. That is just the way it goes in the US and Canada. No 2nd division league will ever get a TV contract worth anything and if a city isn't in the top tier, eventually it will get there when an investor pays a lot of money to get into MLS or buys an existing franchise that is doing poorly financially and moves them.


----------



## will101

Webcam shot from this morning at the Quakes stadium. Visible work seems to be slowing (especially seat installation), but we can see the new flag poles, the area around the outdoor bar paved, the press box mostly complete, and the fact that I was completely wrong a few weeks ago about them installing scoreboard sections already.


----------



## will101

And a final aerial look at Buck Shaw Stadium, home of the Quakes for seven seasons, now consigned to the archives of soccer history. Sometime in 2015 the stadium will be razed, and rebuilt as a permanent home for womens and mens soccer teams of Santa Clara University. The projected new capacity will be 5,000 to 7,500 chair seats, depending on funding. :goodbye:


----------



## Bori427

General_Xatruch said:


> Im talking about TV contracts, that's where the real money is. MLS is improving this every year but they are still far from the Mexican league for example. If the MLS gets big enough eventually there wont be room for any other team at the top tier and then is when a second division can happen.


Actually, MLS ain't that far behind.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Bori427 said:


> Actually, MLS ain't that far behind.


The convoluted TV contracts for the various broadcast partners of LMX teams makes tracking and comparing media revenues across borders difficult, but suffice to say articles announcing the forthcoming contracts for MLS suggested that the average MLS team will still be earning about 1/3 total revenues compared to their southern neighbors. Given the growing popularity of LMX it's not out of the question to think that league's value will be increasing, as well. Those clubs also have strong merchandise sales and volumes of sponsors.

Where MLS can outperform them is via gate receipts, since MLS tix are typically more expensive.


----------



## GunnerJacket

General_Xatruch said:


> Im talking about TV contracts, that's where the real money is. MLS is improving this every year but they are still far from the Mexican league for example. If the MLS gets big enough eventually there wont be room for any other team at the top tier and then is when a second division can happen.


Carnifex is correct in that US culture doesn't celebrate 2nd tier sports in any way close to top tiers. They like their leagues and divisions set in stone so that they know their favored team will never drop below that level. Owners like this not only for the financial security but it endows teams to become more appealing to regions outside their hometown as fans without a top-flight team choose some team to support from afar. (I'm in Atlanta and for a time adopted Columbus, for example.)

We have minor league soccer already in the NASL (div 2) and USL (div 3), both are doing pretty well despite the absence of any worthwhile media exposure. But they are and forever will be far below MLS.


----------



## CollegeBoy

GunnerJacket said:


> Carnifex is correct in that US culture doesn't celebrate 2nd tier sports in any way close to top tiers. They like their leagues and divisions set in stone so that they know their favored team will never drop below that level. Owners like this not only for the financial security but it endows teams to become more appealing to regions outside their hometown as fans without a top-flight team choose some team to support from afar. (I'm in Atlanta and for a time adopted Columbus, for example.)


The exception to this would have to be college football.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

krudmonk said:


> Pretty shit trolling, considering the two teams are at opposite ends of the table, yet the best LA could do was pull a 1-0 win and two draws this season.


man, the butthurt coming out of SJ for this little joke is so strong. Let it go, its a joke.


----------



## GreenHornet553

I wish that the Revs would get moved into into the city of Boston. There is enough room to fit a decent 20,000-22,000 seat Soccer Specific Stadium for the Revs.


----------



## JJG

GreenHornet553 said:


> I wish that the Revs would get moved into into the city of Boston. There is enough room to fit a decent 20,000-22,000 seat Soccer Specific Stadium for the Revs.


As long as Kraft owns the team, I doubt they'll be moving into Boston. 

Not saying it will _never_ happen, but I have my doubts.


----------



## GreenHornet553

JJG said:


> As long as Kraft owns the team, I doubt they'll be moving into Boston.
> 
> Not saying it will _never_ happen, but I have my doubts.


True. That is why I wish someone would try and buy the club away from the Krafts.


----------



## master_klon

San Jose Earthquakes Stadium

Photos taken by scotto: http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads...m-2015-cant-come-soon-enough.1977354/page-268


----------



## Kerrybai

carnifex2005 said:


> *Portland Timbers plan stadium revamp to boost capacity*
> 
> The Portland Timbers have a plan to increase stadium capacity by eliminating 6,000 fixed seats tied to their supporters group at Providence Park.
> 
> The theory behind the project: Addition by subtraction at a sold-out facility with a waiting list of 10,000 for season tickets, according to Mike Golub, the team’s president of business operations.
> 
> The Timbers Army, Portland’s supporters group, is situated in the stadium’s north end. As most supporters groups do in North America as well as overseas, the group’s members stand throughout home games cheering and waving banners, Golub said. As a result, the Timbers Army does not have much use for fixed seats — so the group has asked team officials to get rid of the seats to provide them more room, in large part, to execute its choreographed chants, which are led by individuals who are perched in elevated structures called “capo stands,” with their backs to the field.
> 
> The Timbers listened to the group’s request and have developed a plan to remove those seats and reconfigure the space as a tiered, standing terrace with protective railings. The project, estimated to cost in the mid-six figures, would be funded by the Timbers but must be approved by the city and MLS officials before construction starts. Pending those approvals, the Timbers would complete the project in time for the 2015 season.
> 
> “Our biggest challenge for a stadium built in 1926 is to find new areas to build new seats for people to enjoy one of the most special live-event experiences in the country,” Golub said.
> 
> AECOM, the architect for the original retrofit of the 88-year-old facility, is doing the redesign to fill the spaces that held single seats two-deep with standing patrons. It effectively would double capacity in most of the north end of the building. The facility currently holds about 20,800 fans.
> 
> The plan includes installing a smaller seating product in the north end to meet the needs of the National Women’s Soccer League’s Portland Thorns, the stadium’s other tenant, and other events. The mini-seats, common in European stadiums, fold up and would not interfere with the supporters’ actions at Timbers games, Golub said.
> 
> Turner Construction, the firm that built the retrofit of the former minor league ballpark, a project completed in 2011, is teaming once again with AECOM for the seat-removal job. It would be the first time an MLS team has removed permanent seats to accommodate supporters groups, league officials confirmed.


This is wonderful news.The idea had been mentioed a couple of years back and a few of us on here have mentioned it as a means to increase capacity in Portland. I wonder if they will need extra turnstiles, bathrooms etc too.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

So this would add about 6000 to the capacity? Thats awesome for a less than 1 million dollar investment


----------



## master_klon

No, they will be removing 6000 seats to create a safe standing area. The ratio in Germany for seats to standing, ranges from 1:1.2 to 1:1.8. Not sure what ratio the Timbers will use but they will probably be limited by the concourse and amenities. We can expect the capacity to increase by at least 1500 though.


----------



## krudmonk

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> man, the butthurt coming out of SJ for this little joke is so strong. Let it go, its a joke.


Where did you interpret butthurt? This kind of stuff is pretty common. I'm just flattered you guys thought of us. <3


----------



## will101

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> man, the butthurt coming out of SJ for this little joke is so strong. Let it go, its a joke.


If that's supposed to be a joke, it goes a long way towards explaining why the mortality rate for sitcoms is so high.


----------



## Kerrybai

master_klon said:


> No, they will be removing 6000 seats to create a safe standing area. The ratio in Germany for seats to standing, ranges from 1:1.2 to 1:1.8. Not sure what ratio the Timbers will use but they will probably be limited by the concourse and amenities. We can expect the capacity to increase by at least 1500 though.


Surely they will do at least a 1:1.5 ratio providing an extra 3000 seats. Also I wonder how soon they can get this done? This should put them above LA Galaxy in attendance too :cheers:


----------



## krudmonk

will101 said:


> If that's supposed to be a joke, it goes a long way towards explaining why the mortality rate for sitcoms is so high.


yep, they're all made in LA


----------



## SounderBruce

Got back from the Sounders-LA title-clincher. It was raining and cold, and the game was ugly, but it was well worth it!

There was even a little bit of sunshine:


Sunshine by SounderBruce, on Flickr

And the stadium looked decently full


After the 2nd goal by SounderBruce, on Flickr

But all those people had to see the faded Seahawks logo and football markings. Ugh.


Faded Seahawks logo on the field by SounderBruce, on Flickr


----------



## Calvin W

^^ You were doing well in your pics until the ugh on the last picture.

Build a bridge and get over it. The team shares a stadium with the Seahawks. It is a NFL field first and foremost. So live with it.


----------



## slipperydog

Yeah, it's a football stadium with artificial turf. Not a soccer stadium. The last ones that should be complaining are soccer fans.


----------



## master_klon

I didn't actually notice the markings during the game. Thanks for the photos SounderBruce, and well done on winning the title.


----------



## master_klon

Hopefully this partnership with IMG will help grow MLS outside the US and Canada: http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...er-partner-img-market-media-rights-until-2022


Latest MLS expansion news:

1. Sacramento Republic owners and Mayor Kevin Johnson to visit MLS league office on Tuesday: http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...rs-and-mayor-kevin-johnson-visit-mls-league-o

2. MLS Commissioner talks expansion to Minneapolis: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/soccer/chi-don-garber-mls-chicago-fire-20141025-story.html



> With expansion commitments in place in New York City, Atlanta and Orlando, Fla., Major League Soccer could be eyeing a Midwest city for its next franchise.
> 
> Expansion to Minneapolis-St. Paul would give the Fire another regional rival; their closest rivals are the Columbus Crew in Ohio and Sporting Kansas City in Missouri. “The Midwest is a priority,” MLS Commissioner Don Garber said Friday. “Minneapolis is a big priority for us. We have two prospects that are hoping to join the league as soon as they can. … I’m hopeful we can resolve our lack of coverage in the Midwest with another team soon.”
> 
> One Minnesota expansion group includes owners of the NFL’s Vikings. A proposed MLS team could play in a new Vikings stadium currently under construction. The 19-team league will grow to 21 next season with additions of New York City FC and Orlando City FC. Miami remains in the mix pending commitments for a downtown stadium. An investment group also is targeting a team in Sacramento, Calif.


----------



## master_klon

Some exterior photos of San Jose Earthquakes Stadium by falvo: http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads...m-2015-cant-come-soon-enough.1977354/page-269. 

Not sure how much truth there are to the rumours, but there is a possibility that the exterior skin will be installed after the 2015 season.
The last concrete pour at the stadium was last week and it looks as if the stadium is on schedule be completed by the end of November.
The front office will be moving into the stadium on Tuesday this week.


----------



## BoulderGrad

slipperydog said:


> Yeah, it's a *football stadium* with artificial turf. *Not a soccer stadium*. The last ones that should be complaining are soccer fans.


Like a lot of new stadiums being built for NFL teams, its meant to be both. 

One of the selling points of the new Seahawks stadium was that it would be designed to accommodate a FIFA sized pitch. That would mean the stadium could be used for a future MLS team (in the days before teams started developing their own stadiums) and other big soccer matches. It took until 2009 for the MLS Sounders to come along. By then, the league had realized teams could have more control over their funds by having their own buildings with a more appropriate capacity. But much to everyone's surprise and delight, the Sounders quickly redefined what an appropriate capacity/venue COULD be. It got at least a few NFL owners seeing dollar signs, and its why we will soon be seeing MLS Atlanta playing in the same shiny new stadium as the NFL Falcons, and the possibility of MLS Minneapolis under the lights of the new NFL Vikings jawa land barge. 

This is leading me into a bit of a rant, so apologies ahead of time. But I get my panties in a bunch on this topic a lot because it can cause some very real problems.

Firstly, a word about a "football stadium" vs a "soccer stadium". I get what people mean when they say "football stadium" vs a "soccer stadium"... but its really knit picking of the worst degree to me. Both games are played on similar sized rectangular grassy fields (So is Rugby for that matter). Its not out of the reach of most architects to design a stadium where the seats look at a big rectangular space that's big enough for all 3 types of fields.

"But BOULDERGRAD!" you say, "Doesn't it suck to see all those lines on that crappy artificial field!?" 

Well, yeah... sure...a bit... But really... How much does it ACTUALLY suck? Does it really suck so bad that you would refuse to watch? 

"Wouldn't it be better if they had their own facility with a pristine GRASS playing surface!?" 

As we pointed out, the Sounders have quite a few more fans come out for their games than the rest of the league. Their ticket demand would necessitate at least a 40-45,000 seat stadium. Well, that leads me to my second point: 

Say your local NFL team has decided it wants a shiny new "football stadium". The conversation these days no longer starts with IF tax dollars are going to be used, but HOW MUCH tax dollars will be used. The rather wealthy and connected owners of these franchises have made it a habit of throwing up their arms and saying they couldn't possibly raise the funds to build such a facility on their own. The city/state either has to pay up and help them build their box o luxury boxes or they'll be 'forced' to move their franchise elsewhere. That type of extortion used to only work with the bigger of the big 5 leagues (Mayors didn't stay awake at night stressing about the loss of their soccer team), but now with MLS growing in relevance on the national sports scene, teams have gone from building their own "erector sets" in the suburbs to wanting tax funded venues in the central city (see the current discussion about DC United's new stadium). 

And this is where I start to get annoyed with the "gee wouldn't it be nice if they had their own place" attitude and referring to stadiums as "football stadiums" and "soccer stadiums" and such. These facilities cost A LOT of money, so much money that they can (and have) ruined the budgets of whole city governments. Glendale, AZ's budget situation go so bad, there were rumors swirling that they were going to have to sell city hall to help pay for the fancy arena it built for the Coyotes. 

So putting a city budget on the line to help build a team their own home so that we don't have to look at faint football lines during a soccer game? Sorry. No. That's just silly. If anything I say we get as much use out of fewer venues as possible. If you play on a similar size and type of playing surface, and you draw a similar amount of people, then HELL YES you should be sharing a stadium with another sport. 

The NHL and NBA learned to play nice a long time ago. Sure it means the end stands are a little weird for basketball games and the ice is shit for most NHL teams, but we still watch in droves, and the owners sit and count their money. I'd go as far to say that Baseball needs to redesign its playing surface so that we can return to the days when football, baseball, and soccer all shared the same stadium.


----------



## slipperydog

The point is that it's incredibly dumb for soccer fans to get worked up over a few football markings in what is a shared facility.


----------



## weava

BoulderGrad said:


> I'd go as far to say that Baseball needs to redesign its playing surface so that we can return to the days when football, baseball, and soccer all shared the same stadium.


um.... no


----------



## Reghu

As Soccer becoming an increasingly viewed sport in US, hope we can see more marvelous soccer stadiums in future.

Indeed, the future of Soccer viewership and marketing is in US, India, and China!

Most of the Eurpean clubs are eyeing these countries and promote leagues like MSL, Chineese league, and the India Super League to create interest in the game.



SounderBruce said:


> Got back from the Sounders-LA title-clincher. It was raining and cold, and the game was ugly, but it was well worth it!
> 
> There was even a little bit of sunshine:
> 
> 
> Sunshine by SounderBruce, on Flickr
> 
> And the stadium looked decently full
> 
> 
> After the 2nd goal by SounderBruce, on Flickr
> 
> But all those people had to see the faded Seahawks logo and football markings. Ugh.
> 
> 
> Faded Seahawks logo on the field by SounderBruce, on Flickr


----------



## will101

master_klon said:


> 2. MLS Commissioner talks expansion to Minneapolis: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/soccer/chi-don-garber-mls-chicago-fire-20141025-story.html
> 
> "The 19-team league will grow to *21* next season with additions of New York City FC and Orlando City FC."


I don't think this person covers soccer on a regular basis.


----------



## Bori427

Actually, big euro clubs just play in these countries to expand their brand and they know a great ammount of their growth can only be achieved this way.


----------



## Fabio1976

will101 said:


> I don't think this person covers soccer on a regular basis.


Chivas USA is out !!!!


----------



## GunnerJacket

Exactly his point. It will be 20 teams next year, not 21.


----------



## SounderBruce

GunnerJacket said:


> Exactly his point. It will be 20 teams next year, not 21.


It's too perfect. The 20th MLS season will have 20 teams and average attendance could break 20,000.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Wow I hadn't noticed that. Karmic! If that all comes to pass then can anything be foretold for the eventual champion? A team with 20 wins, perhaps?

does it also mean 30 teams by year 30? Stay tuned, kids...


----------



## will101

SounderBruce said:


> It's too perfect. The 20th MLS season will have 20 teams and average attendance could break 20,000.


This year, MLS without Chivas averaged *19,819*. If the Quakes draw 18,000 for their 15 games in the new stadium, 50,000 for the Galaxy at Stanford, and 65,000 for the unnamed opponent at Levi's, that will give them a season average of *22,647*, which (if all other numbers remained the same) would raise the average for the 18 teams in question to *20,247*. So it's all up to Orlando, and the two New York teams. I say two because not only is the new team a wild card, but we would have to see how it affects the Red Bulls.


----------



## Kerrybai

will101 said:


> This year, MLS without Chivas averaged *19,819*. If the Quakes draw 18,000 for their 15 games in the new stadium, 50,000 for the Galaxy at Stanford, and 65,000 for the unnamed opponent at Levi's, that will give them a season average of *22,647*, which (if all other numbers remained the same) would raise the average for the 18 teams in question to *20,247*. So it's all up to Orlando, and the two New York teams. I say two because not only is the new team a wild card, but we would have to see how it affects the Red Bulls.


Can we expect any increases elsewhere? Dallas have increased every years for about 6 years now. I think they were around 10k in 2010. Perhaps they will hit their peak now but I could maybe see another slight increase for them.

Will Toronto have the new capacity for next season? If so they should have cheaper tickets and another increase. Montreal were this seasons drag with a 15% decreased. I would expect them to turn this around next season.

In DC they have had a sizeable increase but if the product on the field goes downhill I would expect the attendances to follow. 

Lastly Portland may have some standing areas which will give them an increase too.

BTW over 32k at New Englands final game. It speaks volumes of what a new stadium could do for them...sigh.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Kerrybai said:


> Can we expect any increases elsewhere?


I think that's all down to team performance, now, and the ability of the team to connect with the fans. For places like Chicago, Colorado and Columbus there won't be anything else strikingly new or novel to lure additional fans. Unless there is something brewing to simply expand their base of die-hards I would expect these places to need another several years of watching the league grow before they draw in enough new casual fans to make a big difference.

And if they do experience an uptick it might be countered elsewhere by another team's struggles, like we saw with Montreal this year.


> Will Toronto have the new capacity for next season?


At least the new upper deck on the north(?) sideline will supposedly be done in time for next season, according to reports. I seem to recall the capacity will be near 28k. 



> Lastly Portland may have some standing areas which will give them an increase too.


Depending on reports they'll use this approach to add an additional 1k-1,500 next season as a test and then consider an additional 1,500-2,500 after that pending the ability to handle that capacity with regard to concessions and safety.


----------



## sitruc

master_klon said:


> I didn't actually notice the markings during the game. Thanks for the photos SounderBruce, and well done on winning the title.


Markings are more obvious from higher angles. Lower levels and even television likely did not pick it up. Likewise, players wouldn't have seen them. I actually thought the bench areas were more prominent and obvious that end zones, but still not distracting. A few years ago DC had lines basically burned into the field for a one-off at RFK. They weren't later obvious in stadium, but were there for a full season on tv.


----------



## CollegeBoy

This has probably been posted before, but I'll be so happy if it gets built, but knowing how DC is, it will probably be stuck in limbo for a few years before a decision gets made.

http://www.dcunited.com/new-stadium-fresh-look


----------



## will101

Kerrybai said:


> Can we expect any increases elsewhere? Dallas have increased every years for about 6 years now. I think they were around 10k in 2010. Perhaps they will hit their peak now but I could maybe see another slight increase for them.
> 
> Will Toronto have the new capacity for next season? If so they should have cheaper tickets and another increase. Montreal were this seasons drag with a 15% decreased. I would expect them to turn this around next season.
> 
> In DC they have had a sizeable increase but if the product on the field goes downhill I would expect the attendances to follow.
> 
> Lastly Portland may have some standing areas which will give them an increase too.
> 
> BTW over 32k at New Englands final game. It speaks volumes of what a new stadium could do for them...sigh.


I was focused mostly on the large picture, known quantity changes. Chivas is going away. The Quakes have a new stadium, with a 71% increase in capacity. Of the other teams, some will gain attendance, some will lose. The only other capacity change that I know of is Portland, and even that is an unknown quantity. But if the league does not lose ground overall, than the 18 current teams will post an average of over 20,000.


----------



## Topher51

slipperydog said:


> The point is that it's incredibly dumb for soccer fans to get worked up over a few football markings in what is a shared facility.


Especially considering that is extremely likely that Sounders fans are also Seahawks fans. I can't imagine they begrudge one team they love because of their love for another.


----------



## willygtoc

*MLS announces new strategy for Los Angeles market, 2015 conference alignment*

Major League Soccer Commissioner Don Garber announced today a new strategy for the Los Angeles market. * Effective immediately, Chivas USA will cease operations. On Thursday, Oct. 30, the League will announce a new MLS Los Angeles club and ownership group. The new club will begin play in 2017.*

The decision on Chivas USA was made unanimously by the MLS Board of Governors, after a comprehensive review of the League’s strategy for the Los Angeles market. As a result of this decision, the League will play with 20 clubs in the 2015 season.

“As part of our new strategy for Southern California -- a major hotbed of soccer participation and fan support -- we believe that engaging with a new ownership group which has the resources and local community ties, and a plan for a dedicated soccer-specific stadium, provides us with the best chance for success,” said MLS Commissioner Don Garber.

With the addition of Orlando City SC and New York City FC in 2015, MLS will have 20 clubs for the league’s 20th season and will feature a new conference alignment. Most notably, the Houston Dynamo and 2013 MLS Cup Champions Sporting Kansas City will move to the Western Conference, creating two 10-team conferences. The 2015 conference assignments are as follows:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2014/10/27/mls-announces-new-strategy-los-angeles-market


----------



## slipperydog

Seems to imply that a new stadium plan has been finalized for the new LA team. Interested to hear who the new owners are and when they plan to begin construction. If it's Exposition Park, I can't think of a better location. Easy access from all the right neighborhoods. Pregame parties in bars in Santa Monica, Pasadena, Hollywood, and Downtown, then take the train to the game.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

New Owners are... From the LA Times

The ownership group of that franchise will be headed by Henry Nguyen, a Vietnamese American venture capitalist, and Mandalay Entertainment CEO Peter Guber, a co-owner of the Dodgers and the NBA's Golden State Warriors.

Also part of the group will be Vincent Tan, the Malaysian owner of English soccer club Cardiff City. The group is expected to pay in excess of $100 million for the rights to the franchise, which will join the league as an expansion team free of the Chivas brand. The team is to play in a new soccer-specific stadium; among the locations under consideration is Exposition Park, next to the USC campus.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-chivas-usa-ceases-operations-20141027-story.html


----------



## slipperydog

Nice. It would literally be across the street from USC classrooms and student housing. Pretty convenient for a demographic that is definitely into soccer.


----------



## RMB2007

@ArashMarkazi:



> This is one of the renderings of an MLS stadium built on the L.A. Sports Arena site.
> 
> L.A.'s new MLS stadium would be soccer specific and likely seat 17,000-27,000 fans.












https://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi

Also:



> As Chivas USA folds, the LA Galaxy and AEG announce they will invest over $15 million to improve the facilities at StubHub Center.
> 
> StubHub Center will have a 5,100 square foot LED video board, the largest in MLS and rivaling most NFL video boards in size and resolution.
> 
> The Galaxy will further brand StubHub Center, including the concourse, player tunnel and surrounding walls on the outside of the stadium.


----------



## GunnerJacket

So, based on this:


willygtoc said:


> “As part of our new strategy for Southern California ..."


and this:


LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> Also part of the group will be Vincent Tan, the Malaysian owner of English soccer club Cardiff City.


I'm assuming the name with be the California Red Dragons. Prime that marketing machine to appease millions of southeast Asians! :banana:


----------



## WesTexas

Why is LA getting a second team still when they cant keep 2 going, and the one they keep going still has a hard time filling the stands. LA seems ton only care about college sports and basketball and sometimes baseball.


----------



## Bori427

There was a time when both the Galaxy and Chivas did good.


----------



## slipperydog

WesTexas said:


> Why is LA getting a second team still when they cant keep 2 going, and the one they keep going still has a hard time filling the stands. LA seems ton only care about college sports and basketball and sometimes baseball.


Chivas was a bad idea that was always destined to fail. As for the Galaxy, despite several seasons with declining average attendance, in 2014 they still ranked 3rd out of 19 teams in the league. That is despite the stadium being in a horrible location and very pedestrian brand marketing.

But if you want to know the real reason LA is getting a rebooted second team, it's the fact that the LA metro area would be the 10th largest country in Europe. There's a reason 15 different ownership groups placed bids to buy the new LA team.


----------



## GunnerJacket

WesTexas said:


> Why is LA getting a second team still when they cant keep 2 going, and the one they keep going still has a hard time filling the stands.


One man's guess:

- The LA market is large enough that the potential from a second team there is often viewed as good as a first team in smaller markets, even if you're simply playing off the TV value of LA for love or hate;

- There's a lack of truly well-heeled owners interested in putting a team elsewhere (excepting current expansion candidates);

- There's a strong sense that CUSA's issues weren't LA but ownership and concept, such that a complete rebrand won't have the same concerns;

- Rivalries are appealing to soccer fans;

- The Galaxy aren't doing badly at all and are one of the few teams that has shown profitability.



This isn't to say that they'd be better off "relocating" somewhere else, merely why several MLS officials have cited the team will return in LA.


----------



## ielag

slipperydog said:


> Chivas was a bad idea that was always destined to fail. As for the Galaxy, despite several seasons with declining average attendance, in 2014 they still ranked 3rd out of 19 teams in the league. That is despite the stadium being in a horrible location and very pedestrian brand marketing.


StubHub Center isn't the greatest location but it's not even close to horrible. It's within a mile of 3 freeways (405, 110, 91), within a 15 mile radius of a population of 3+ million people. 

The biggest reason has been marketing and ticket prices, and the Galaxy is lowering ticket prices 15% for next season. The next 2-3 years for the Galaxy are huge in terms of expanding the fan base before LA2 comes aboard.


----------



## RFSK

GunnerJacket said:


> So, based on this:
> 
> 
> and this:
> 
> I'm assuming the name with be the *California Red Dragons*. Prime that marketing machine to appease millions of southeast Asians! :banana:


it would be the obvious choice, that this group would be looking for Dragon to be part of their name.

But going by a owners history, is a reason, i thought of Beckham wanting to call his new club Miami Red Devils (he called his company Miami beckham united)

so if that is the case, league will probably not want two teams sounding similar (i.e. New york city fc and Orlando city sc, does have the same cling)


----------



## slipperydog

ielag said:


> StubHub Center isn't the greatest location but it's not even close to horrible. It's within a mile of 3 freeways (405, 110, 91), within a 15 mile radius of a population of 3+ million people.


Just because a lot of people may live in close proximity to it doesn’t mean those people would actually ever want to go there. The fact that it’s near freeways is probably about the best thing that can be said about it, which in a freeway-centric city like Los Angeles isn't saying a whole lot. It’s in an unattractive, nondescript suburban/industrial area with poor public transport options and no major attractions nearby. Good luck getting there in rush hour traffic. It was built because there was plenty of available land, and that’s about it.



> The biggest reason has been marketing and ticket prices, and the Galaxy is lowering ticket prices 15% for next season. The next 2-3 years for the Galaxy are huge in terms of expanding the fan base before LA2 comes aboard.


They are in trouble and they know it. And frankly I think there’s very little they can do at this point. Lowering ticket prices won’t make me any more interested in spending time fighting traffic to go sit in a stadium in Carson for two hours. Their marquee player is retiring (who has never really been a huge draw for locals), the in-stadium experience is sterile, pregame/postgame festivities are nonexistent, and the overall brand needs major work. If the new team is indeed located near downtown, a Galaxy decline into relative obscurity could come sooner than you might think.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

WesTexas said:


> Why is LA getting a second team still when they cant keep 2 going, and the one they keep going still has a hard time filling the stands. LA seems ton only care about college sports and basketball and sometimes baseball.


LOL ..sometimes baseball? LA is probably the best baseball market... just check the attendances for the last 15 years for both teams. The Kings also sell out every game and have for years now.

The Galaxy have been either first, second or third in attendance every single year and Chivas used to average over 20,000 a game before the ownership royally ****ed shit up. Both teams are doing this while being located in an area thats only accessible by freeways and is a min 40 minutes from most fans. Also, because the stadium is located at a college, the attendance for mid week games are capped at 17,000 for those games. Put the Galaxy in downtown LA and they would average 40k a game and with the new LA team most likely being in their own SSS at Expo park, expect them to draw over 20,000 a game as well.


----------



## bd popeye

> LOL ..sometimes baseball? LA is probably the best baseball market... just check the attendances for the last 15 years for both teams.


As for the Dodgers and Angels..please..

Since 1978 the Dodgers have drawn over 3 million fans in 28 seasons.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/laatte.shtml

Angels attendance while not as spectacular as the dodgers have drawn 3 million every season since 2003.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/anahatte.shtml

Not bad for sometimes baseball fans...


----------



## The Game Is Up

Sacramento soccer delegation meeting with MLS in New York today

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramen...to-soccer-delegation-meeting-with-mls-in.html


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

San Jose seat installation moving along nicely



http://www.sjearthquakes.com/newstadium/webcam%20


----------



## GunnerJacket

Will they be doing any events in there prior to the Quakes first game? (Since it will be a while till the next kickoff.)


----------



## will101

GunnerJacket said:


> Will they be doing any events in there prior to the Quakes first game? (Since it will be a while till the next kickoff.)


There's literally nothing on the upcoming schedule for the Quakes or the stadium. We know the next season will start somewhere around the middle of March, but the club site is a blank after the final 2014 game.


----------



## willygtoc

*http://lafc.com/*


----------



## carnifex2005

So glad that LAFC is a working name. Far too generic.










This is your team. You decide its future. Logo, team name, kits - we want to hear from you. #LAFC2017

Apparently the new LA team will play in the LA Coliseum while a new stadium is built at the location of the old LA Sports Arena (right beside the Coliseum).

http://www.thegoatparade.com/2014/1...lay-in-los-angeles-coliseum-espnfc-chivas-usa


----------



## ielag

Their unofficial stadium rendering is at the Sports Arena site


----------



## JJG

carnifex2005 said:


> So glad that LAFC is a working name. Far too generic.


Some of the folks on twitter apparently think it's great...

Like, WHY? This isn't England and this isn't some premier club from the 1800's who've had "LAFC" as a major, worldwide brand for decades, so I don't get it.


----------



## slipperydog

Relax, just a placeholder name.


----------



## JJG

slipperydog said:


> Relax, just a placeholder name.


Yeah, I know that. 

I'm talking about the people on that twit line saying that the name is "fine as is".


----------



## carnifex2005

ielag said:


> Their unofficial stadium rendering is at the Sports Arena site


If there is any place in the US that doesn't need a roof over the pitch, it is LA or San Diego. A full roof would be a waste of money.


----------



## CollegeBoy

My money is on Red Dragons FC.


----------



## will101

carnifex2005 said:


> If there is any place in the US that doesn't need a roof over the pitch, it is LA or San Diego. A full roof would be a waste of money.


You're wrong on that. Levi's is becoming a quick lesson on discounting the problems with day games in the late summer without a roof. You can only blow off the roof if you are planning to play _every_ game at night.


----------



## GreenHornet553

JJG said:


> Some of the folks on twitter apparently think it's great...
> 
> Like, WHY? This isn't England and this isn't some premier club from the 1800's who've had "LAFC" as a major, worldwide brand for decades, so I don't get it.


Agreed. Even though it is a traditional naming practice, there is too many teams with FC in their name in MLS. I hope they go with a name that is more Spanish like "Atletico Los Angeles" or "CD Los Angeles".


----------



## ielag

GreenHornet553 said:


> Agreed. Even though it is a traditional naming practice, there is too many teams with FC in their name in MLS. I hope they go with a name that is more Spanish like "Atletico Los Angeles" or "CD Los Angeles".


After the Chivas USA debacle, no way will it have a name like that.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Interesting the names in the ownership group.


----------



## Kerrybai

I hope Vincent Tan has a say in the name. LA dragons with a burning blue bird as the logo.


----------



## slipperydog

The homepage of LAFC.com is titled "LA Football Club, MLS Soccer in DTLA". So there's that.

http://lafc.com/


----------



## will101

slipperydog said:


> "LA Football Club, MLS Soccer in DTLA"


As a team name, that just rolls right off of the tongue.


----------



## RFSK

will101 said:


> As a team name, that just rolls right off of the tongue.


It actually does, i could well imagine that they keep this name, and just like cardiff city, have Dragons as there nickname



On a sidenote, the old owner Vergara had actually filed an trademark application for name and logo of both LAFC and LASC, which MLS overtook pending the sale from Vergara.

But i doubt that the new owners will keep the 'old' Logo...

















http://www.thegoatparade.com/2014/3...rk-applications-los-angeles-sc-los-angeles-fc


----------



## slipperydog

will101 said:


> As a team name, that just rolls right off of the tongue.


I was more referring to the fact that the team clearly expects to play in or near Downtown Los Angeles.


----------



## trmather

JJG said:


> Some of the folks on twitter apparently think it's great...
> 
> Like, WHY? This isn't England and this isn't some premier club from the 1800's who've had "LAFC" as a major, worldwide brand for decades, so I don't get it.


Because traditional names make for traditional football.

Names like San Jose Earthquakes and Los Angeles Galaxy just make it sound like a corny fairground attraction.

Americans have to make a song and dance about everything and football is something that doesn't need that.


----------



## Bori427

BS mather. Galaxy is way better than some generic team name ending with FC...


----------



## bd popeye

trmather said:


> Because traditional names make for traditional football.
> 
> Names like San Jose Earthquakes and Los Angeles Galaxy just make it sound like a corny fairground attraction.
> 
> Americans have to make a song and dance about everything and football is something that doesn't need that.


That's very insulting. I'd never insult anything in the country in which you reside. Nothing. By the way the UK is a fantastic country.

In case you did not know. Football as you call it at one time was called Soccer in Britain.

*Why Americans Call Soccer 'Soccer'*


----------



## BlazerBlaze

will101 said:


> You're wrong on that. Levi's is becoming a quick lesson on discounting the problems with day games in the late summer without a roof. You can only blow off the roof if you are planning to play _every_ game at night.


And my DII school would like to say ya'll are a bunch of wimps. 90+ degrees, 70%+ humidity, 1:00 kickoffs. No roof. Not that big of a deal.


----------



## Kerrybai

bd popeye said:


> That's very insulting. I'd never insult anything in the country in which you reside. Nothing. By the way the UK is a fantastic country.
> 
> In case you did not know. Football as you call it at one time was called Soccer in Britain.
> 
> *Why Americans Call Soccer 'Soccer'*


No point feeding these trolls. Plenty of British sports team have 'American' style names. Just look at their rugby teams... London Wasps, London Irish, Leeds Rhinos, Widnes Vikings etc.


----------



## master_klon

carnifex2005 said:


> If there is any place in the US that doesn't need a roof over the pitch, it is LA or San Diego. A full roof would be a waste of money.


Acoustics...


----------



## BoulderGrad

carnifex2005 said:


> If there is any place in the US that doesn't need a roof over the pitch, it is LA or San Diego. A full roof would be a waste of money.


Endless sun...


----------



## Botev1912

GreenHornet553 said:


> Agreed. Even though it is a traditional naming practice, there is too many teams with FC in their name in MLS. I hope they go with a name that is more Spanish like "Atletico Los Angeles" or "CD Los Angeles".


don't you want Chivas Los Angeles?:bash:


----------



## BoulderGrad

Taylor Twellman says what we've been hearing for a while now:

http://www.thegoatparade.com/2014/1...lay-in-los-angeles-coliseum-espnfc-chivas-usa

The news worthy bit I suppose is LAFC playing at LA Coliseum until their stadium is finished. When is USC supposed to go through with its renovations? Would they be playing at the Coliseum in its current state? Or USC's $70mil fixed up state? Could we see a similar arrangement to Montreal?: Most home games at LAFC's park with the LA Derby and California Debries at the Coliseum?


----------



## GunnerJacket

It's nice to see pro soccer in the US evolve to the state where fans can be more concerned with team names and stadium design details rather than fretting over whether the league will actually survive or get press coverage.

1st world problems = Big Time! :cheers:


----------



## JJG

trmather said:


> Because traditional names make for traditional football.
> 
> Names like San Jose Earthquakes and Los Angeles Galaxy just make it sound like a corny fairground attraction.
> 
> Americans have to make a song and dance about everything and football is something that doesn't need that.


*sigh*

...look, I don't want to get into a whole "thing" with this. All I'm going to say is that clubs HERE need to make their own identity and stop trying to copy someone else's.


----------



## ReNaHtEiM

While I get your point that teams have to make their own identity it's a complete mystery to me to what extent having a European inspired name should be obstructive. 
Football/Soccer has its roots in Europe and almost every worldwide known club is based there. 
Our American Football or Baseball clubs have American names as well like Spiders, Panthers, Lions etc.
I don't see how that would distract them from building their own legacy.


----------



## WesTexas

my few name proposals for the new LAFC

LAFC (i mean come on...it just sounds good)
Athletico LA
Angels FC
Pobladores (name of the original people who settled LA)


----------



## matthemod

One thing that I think is a bit weird regarding the whole "traditional" naming style, is that it's not as if European clubs don't have nicknames themselves.

Arsenal F.C. are the Gunners, Grimsby Town F.C. are the Mariners, Bristol Rovers F.C. are the Black Arabs/Gasheads. I don't really understand how simply being called L.A.F.C. or T.F.C. in Toronto really hinders the teams themselves from developing nicknames unique to their area/club anyway. No one formed Chesterfield F.C. with the proviso "Okay, our nickname will be from this day until our last, the Spireites."

I know it's a different sporting culture, but this is one thing that I've never really been able to understand.


----------



## bd popeye

WesTexas said:


> my few name proposals for the new LAFC
> 
> LAFC (i mean come on...it just sounds good)
> Athletico LA
> Angels FC
> Pobladores (name of the original people who settled LA)


Not bad!! Pretty good actually. I favor "Athletico LA". And instead of "LAFC" how about "LASC"? Naw.. just does not have that ring to it.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

LA Glory - based on my hometown team's name. 

Edit: someone should make FC Hollywood a reality, though :lol:


----------



## willygtoc

WesTexas said:


> Pobladores (name of the original people who settled LA)



Pobladores means people or population :cheers:

Example: Los pobladores de Nueva York = The People of New York

Pioneros or Pioneers is the right word.


----------



## Riise

Names like LA Galaxy and San Jose Earthquakes are gimmicky but so are names like Sporting Kansas and Real Salt Lake. My preference is to identify what you are (i.e. Association Football Club, Football Club, Soccer Club, etc.) and then let your nickname develop over time. If you do have historical ties with Royalty, sure, throw in a Royal but don't try and make up an identity.


----------



## JJG

Dammit.... 

Look, just forget I said anything about it.


----------



## Kerrybai

We shouldnt get so tied up with the names. Toronto FC, Real Salt Late and SKC are all European inspired and are 3 of the most succesful in the league. Seattle Sounders, La Galaxy and Portland Timbers are all 'American' names and are also 3 of the most successful in the league... It packaging on the product is not the main selling point.

There are far more important things to address if we want continued growth in the league.


----------



## Suburbanist

What about something like The Californians


----------



## carlosfng

The naming debates always get me, with the pro-European and the pro-American. I think that it should be a combination of both conventions. For example, Seattle Sounders FC is perfect. perhaps Sporting KC is good too - but on the other hand, Toronto FC and FC Dallas sound a bit dry. Then again, Dallas Burn was kind of lame - and in the end, the team's performance on the pitch is what makes the names stick on people's minds, not the other way around.

Specifically talking about LA, I like some of the suggestions. Atletico or Athletic sounds great - it's not even that foreign to America, if I'm not mistaken there's a baseball team called the Oakland A(thletic)s?

Also, about the another endless debate about roofs - well, the roof isn't also for rain, it is also for augmenting acoustics and preventing scorching sun. If needed, again, I suggest a compromise: roof on one or two of the lateral stands, no roof behind the goals. It's done in South America a lot.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

Honestly, i really like LAFC as well


----------



## carlosfng

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> Honestly, i really like LAFC as well


It does have a nice ring to it, mostly because it would be just four letters. Direct, easy, and unforgettable - any soccer fan knows what FC stands for, and most people know LA is short for Los Angeles. We'll see what the name turns out to be.

Does anyone have any news on the Miami expansion team? I fear the negotiations for the stadium are getting too protracted, while other cities like Minneapolis and Sacramento are advancing.


----------



## Lumbergo

Miami isn't going to happen unless some politicians get their cut.


----------



## will101

slipperydog said:


> I was more referring to the fact that the team clearly expects to play in or near Downtown Los Angeles.


I know. I was making a joke.


----------



## will101

Suburbanist said:


> What about something like The Californians


If they were the only team in the state, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Since there will be at least two, and maybe as many as four, other teams here, I would disagree with that choice.


----------



## will101

trmather said:


> Names like San Jose Earthquakes and Los Angeles Galaxy just make it sound like a corny fairground attraction.


Names like Dallas FC and Real Salt Lake make it sound like they are trying to curry favor from their European masters. *San Jose Earthquakes* is a name that is now 41 years old, and we survivors of Loma Prieta endorse the name proudly.


----------



## krudmonk

What the hell does a Brit know about earthquakes anyway. Of course it sounds stupid, just like when they call people "Macca" and "Bazza."


----------



## JJG

carlosfng said:


> Also, about the another endless debate about roofs - well, the roof isn't also for rain, it is also for augmenting acoustics and preventing scorching sun. If needed, again, I suggest a compromise: roof on one or two of the lateral stands, no roof behind the goals. It's done in South America a lot.


Ok... if someone's going to mention roofs, Southern California is the LAST place you should even think of bringing that up. 

A stadium can be loud without one (just look at Arrowhead) and the weather is damn near perfect year round where they are, so no roofs.


----------



## Botev1912

stadiums with roofs look a lot better.


----------



## master_klon

JJG said:


> Ok... if someone's going to mention roofs, Southern California is the LAST place you should even think of bringing that up.
> 
> A stadium can be loud without one (just look at Arrowhead) and the weather is damn near perfect year round where they are, so no roofs.


Again, acoustics...

We're talking about a mid 20k seat stadium, not one with 80k seats.


----------



## MarkJF

will101 said:


> Names like Dallas FC and Real Salt Lake make it sound like they are trying to curry favor from their European masters.


I agree, and although FC, CF, CD whatever are used worldwide, "Real" as a club name prefix in the US is just silly.


----------



## WesTexas

will101 said:


> Names like *Dallas FC* and Real Salt Lake make it sound like they are trying to curry favor from their European masters. *San Jose Earthquakes* is a name that is now 41 years old, and we survivors of Loma Prieta endorse the name proudly.


FC Dallas

Your welcome


----------



## WesTexas

JJG said:


> Ok... if someone's going to mention roofs, Southern California is the LAST place you should even think of bringing that up.
> 
> A stadium can be loud without one (just look at Arrowhead) and the weather is damn near perfect year round where they are, so no roofs.


Shade is still a must in the summer in Cali.


----------



## slipperydog

WesTexas said:


> Shade is still a must in the summer in Cali.


Is it a must? No. (see Dodgers/Angels). Would it be welcome? Sure.

And we're not talking about a dome here. You can still enjoy the sunshine and nice weather (see Marseille, Monaco) without having it blazing down on you for two hours.


----------



## CollegeBoy

I still say Red Dragons FC would be a badass name.


----------



## slipperydog

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> Honestly, i really like LAFC as well


I'm thinking something along the lines of "Los Angeles Athletic FC" with a logo featuring this creature, who inhabits many of our hills and neighborhoods.


----------



## carnifex2005

CollegeBoy said:


> I still say Red Dragons FC would be a badass name.


Me too. Even though the name was given as a joke because of Vincent Tam, it really would be a cool name.


----------



## pesto

CollegeBoy said:


> I still say Red Dragons FC would be a badass name.


I like Golden Dragons or Black Dragons better. 

Coyotes is fine, but sounds like it should be an Arizona team.

Marketing issue: your natural fan base is the former Chivas fans; do you make some concessions on name or colors to them or ignore them and hope they don't show up wearing Chivas gear and icons?


----------



## carnifex2005

pesto said:


> I like Golden Dragons or Black Dragons better.
> 
> Coyotes is fine, but sounds like it should be an Arizona team.
> 
> Marketing issue: your natural fan base is the former Chivas fans; do you make some concessions on name or colors to them or ignore them and hope they don't show up wearing Chivas gear and icons?


Completely ignore them because Chivas is dead, which is what MLS and the ownership group is smartly reiterating. It was a horrible experiment that will rightfully be forgotten in a few years.


----------



## pesto

WesTexas said:


> Shade is still a must in the summer in Cali.


LA and California may be cooler than you think. There has never been a covered stadium in California (SD, the OC, LA, Pasadena, Fresno, SJ, Santa Clara, Berkeley, Palo Alto, SF; several of these cities have had multiple uncovered facilities).


----------



## pesto

carnifex2005 said:


> Completely ignore them because Chivas is dead, which is what MLS and the ownership group is smartly reiterating.


That might be the first suggestion; but you have to be more nuanced. You don't ignore issues and hope they go away; you deal with them proactively and turn them to your advantage. 

In any event, it will be interesting to see how marketing in the Latin community (8 million in SoCal) will be handled. With a location like Expo Park you have subway connection to the East SFV, SGV, downtown and adjacent, Hollywood, south central, LB and ELA, all of which have huge Latin populations.


----------



## slipperydog

pesto said:


> I like Golden Dragons or Black Dragons better.
> 
> Coyotes is fine, but sounds like it should be an Arizona team.
> 
> Marketing issue: your natural fan base is the former Chivas fans; do you make some concessions on name or colors to them or ignore them and hope they don't show up wearing Chivas gear and icons?


Think it would be appropriate to use a local animal like the coyote as part of the club identity, but not as an official part of the name. Think AS Roma and Orlando City.

As far as marketing, I doubt they'll give much consideration to creating a link towards the past. They are truly starting over. A significant proportion of former Chivas fans will probably follow the team regardless.


----------



## pesto

slipperydog said:


> Think it would be appropriate to use a local animal like the coyote as part of the club identity, but not as an official part of the name. Think AS Roma and Orlando City.
> 
> As far as marketing, I doubt they'll give much consideration to creating a link towards the past. They are truly starting over. A significant proportion of former Chivas fans will probably follow the team regardless.


Could be true but not the way professional marketing and PR organizations should operate. You work the situation; you don't let it work you.

Can you picture the NFL looking at LA and not thinking about former team loyalties and what to do about them? I believe they are actually basing the final decision on what plan to pursue based on responses from fans as to who they want, how much they will pay and how often they are likely to go.

What do you do if the local Chivas fans set up parties outside the stadium, or have a section of a thousand or so who all sit together? Call the police to break it up? Why pretend it couldn't happen when you could co-opt them (and their money) into your own venues by putting up some goats or old pictures somewhere or calling one of the bars The Goat Pen. After all, it's easier to make money satisfying existing demands than to try to generate new ones.

Not saying what conclusions they will come to, but they have to think about it.


----------



## slipperydog

I think the former Chivas fan base is so comparatively small, they're not going to go out of their way to market to them. But I have no idea why the club would want to break up a party full of former Chivas fans. Your fans are your fans regardless of how they identify themselves. Although we've seen how one unnamed national party has treated their "blue dog coalition" in Washington. :lol:


----------



## matthemod

Well, each team in an area needs an identity, this is especially true of cities with two teams.

New York City F.C. are going down the route of being the elite, Manhattan based elite opposition to the New York, happy to play in New Jersey and be named after an energy drink, Red Bulls.

With Chivas being an attempt to claim the "Latino" vote, the L.A. Galaxy were happy to associate themselves with the mainly White, Middle Class, Suburban soccer fans. It'll be interesting to see how L.A.F.C. market themselves in contrast to this, I for one hope we don't end up with an L.A. Galaxy mk II.


----------



## slipperydog

matthemod said:


> Well, each team in an area needs an identity, this is especially true of cities with two teams.
> 
> New York City F.C. are going down the route of being the elite, Manhattan based elite opposition to the New York, happy to play in New Jersey and be named after an energy drink, Red Bulls.
> 
> With Chivas being an attempt to claim the "Latino" vote, *the L.A. Galaxy were happy to associate themselves with the mainly White, Middle Class, Suburban soccer fans.* It'll be interesting to see how L.A.F.C. market themselves in contrast to this, I for one hope we don't end up with an L.A. Galaxy mk II.


Except that didn't really happen. The core Galaxy fan base is heavily Latino/ethnic. If you spend any time in the Galaxy fan sections, those aren't a bunch of white yuppies banging those drums.


----------



## Bori427

Why does every time a mexican team plays an MLS team in the US it feels like it's a mexican home crowd?


----------



## MarkJF

I've really enjoyed the Earthquakes pics, thanks MK. 

No one country has a monopoly on daft names..............and the USA style re-branding of Rugby League (possibly) saved the sport. For a chuckle, look at some of these names from the 2nd level of Rugby League.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Rugby_League_Conference_teams

Bramley (Suburb of Leeds, Yorkshire) Buffaloes indeed! :lol: I am taken with York Lokomotive though, it took a while for me to make the connection. (Geddit?)


----------



## bd popeye

will101 said:


> That's quite an impressive bit of data. It's going to take me a while to wade through it. I haven't even looked at his major league stuff yet.


Thank you. Who ever compiled that data spent a lot of time doing so. Excellent job.


----------



## eMKay

Nice to see that Buffalo still has the all time record for minor league attendance, and probably will keep it for a long long time.


----------



## master_klon

Update on NYCFC's temporary training facility at SUNY Purchase. Grass is expected to be installed in the first week of December. 










http://nycfcforums.com/index.php?th...fc-using-mcfc-training-facilities.1473/page-2


----------



## will101

Crews already hard at work on this cool and breezy morning in SJ.


----------



## will101

This is a turf-level shot of a workout on the Quakes' practice field, looking east toward the new stadium. Posted by Goodsport on BigSoccer.


----------



## GreenHornet553

Question to all fellow MLS fans: do you think it's possible that MLS will make USL Pro its second division at some point, so it can create a form of promotion and relegation?


----------



## bd popeye

GreenHornet553 said:


> Question to all fellow MLS fans: do you think it's possible that MLS will make USL Pro its second division at some point, so it can create a form of promotion and relegation?


I'm no MLS fan but this has been discussed at nauseam in this thread. Promotion relegation will not work in the US simply because the owners of the clubs have shelled out to much cash for their franchise to be demoted to a lower level. And the fans would not stand for such a system...because the promotion and relegation system is not part of the US sporting culture. 

Check this search of this thread..

promotion and relegation..Soccer Stadiums of the USA and Canada

I hope that answers your query.


----------



## GreenHornet553

bd popeye said:


> I'm no MLS fan but this has been discussed at nauseam in this thread. Promotion relegation will not work in the US simply because the owners of the clubs have shelled out to much cash for their franchise to be demoted to a lower level. And the fans would not stand for such a system...because the promotion and relegation system is not part of the US sporting culture.
> 
> Check this search of this thread..
> 
> promotion and relegation..Soccer Stadiums of the USA and Canada
> 
> I hope that answers your query.


In an anti-climactic way, yes.


----------



## Melb_aviator

bd popeye said:


> I'm no MLS fan but this has been discussed at nauseam in this thread. Promotion relegation will not work in the US simply because the owners of the clubs have shelled out to much cash for their franchise to be demoted to a lower level. And the fans would not stand for such a system...because the promotion and relegation system is not part of the US sporting culture.
> 
> Check this search of this thread..
> 
> promotion and relegation..Soccer Stadiums of the USA and Canada
> 
> I hope that answers your query.


Same in Australia really.

Everyone would love to see promotion and relegation but it just isn't practical in certain markets.


----------



## mvcg66b3r

bd popeye said:


> I'm no MLS fan but this has been discussed at nauseam in this thread. Promotion relegation will not work in the US simply because the owners of the clubs have shelled out to much cash for their franchise to be demoted to a lower level. And the fans would not stand for such a system...because the promotion and relegation system is not part of the US sporting culture.
> 
> Check this search of this thread..
> 
> promotion and relegation..Soccer Stadiums of the USA and Canada
> 
> I hope that answers your query.


This came up when I clicked the link:



> Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.


----------



## master_klon

will101 said:


> Crews already hard at work on this cool and breezy morning in SJ.


Nice capture, the white boxes behind the bar contain the panels for the electronic scoreboard which is currently being installed.


----------



## carlosfng

JJG said:


> Ok... if someone's going to mention roofs, Southern California is the LAST place you should even think of bringing that up.
> 
> A stadium can be loud without one (just look at Arrowhead) and the weather is damn near perfect year round where they are, so no roofs.


Again, I mentioned it for sun and acoustics (with only 20k people, you can get a lot but much better with a roof). And again, I mentioned that you could have just 1-2 of the four sides with a roof. Those who like the elements can sit on the uncovered sides. Just an idea though, I respect your traditional position too.

EDIT: To the comment above, while I wholly agree with most of it, I disagree about the last paragraph. While TV audience is important now more than ever, and the NFL is huge, I don't think a stadium crowd can be replaced. Gridiron football is a spectator sport still. I know it was an exaggeration for making a point, but still...


----------



## will101

master_klon said:


> Nice capture, the white boxes behind the bar contain the panels for the electronic scoreboard which is currently being installed.


Are you sure? Fearless Leader usually vines about every little step forward, and he's posted one about the ribbon boards going in, but nothing about the main scoreboard.


----------



## master_klon

will101 said:


> Are you sure? Fearless Leader usually vines about every little step forward, and he's posted one about the ribbon boards going in, but nothing about the main scoreboard.


haha, definitely is the scoreboard though.


----------



## will101

It's an overcast morning in San Jose, which makes it much easier to see the progress of the seating and the scoreboard.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Jonathan Kraft Talks about the Search for a Soccer Specific Stadium

http://www.thebentmusket.com/2014/1...occer-specific-stadium-new-england-revolution

Las Vegas could learn by Dec. 6 if it wins MLS soccer team

http://www.reviewjournal.com/business/stadium/las-vegas-could-learn-dec-6-if-it-wins-mls-soccer-team

Harrison, NJ, embraces big-time development

http://nypost.com/2014/11/12/harrison-nj-embraces-big-time-development/


----------



## The Game Is Up

DC Ward Advocates Make Strong Case for Buzzard Point at Council Hearing

http://www.blackandredunited.com/st...t-soccer-stadium-council-roundtable-testimony


----------



## RMB2007

> Planning is quietly underway for construction of a soccer stadium in Boston, one that would bring the resurgent New England Revolution closer to their urban fan base, according to people familiar with the Kraft family’s search for a site.
> 
> Among the sites under consideration is a strip of city-owned land off Interstate 93 on Frontage Road, where Boston has a large yard for towed cars and public works. The South Boston property offers easy access from major highways and is near the MBTA’s Red Line as well as rail lines at nearby South Station.
> 
> Numerous sources said the Kraft family has been meeting with state and city officials to discuss the stadium and possible locations over the past several months, with the team focusing on Frontage Road. It was not known Monday what additional sites the Krafts were considering.
> 
> Through a spokesman, the Krafts on Monday said: “We are currently developing concepts for how a soccer stadium for the Revolution can benefit the greater Boston area. Once we have more developed plans, we will comment further.”


www.bostonglobe.com/business/2014/1...l?hootPostID=6b6db37d5be380a633c9ba9887de903b


----------



## WesTexas

it's about time. The Kraft family needs to get with the times.


----------



## Bori427

It does show people have more "faith" in MLS now than ever before, so it is a step forward.


----------



## Kerrybai

bd popeye said:


> http://i.imgur.com/38RhE4Q.jpg
> 
> No insult intended towards anyone but none of the statistics on the chart posted by Kerrybai equate to more revenue or TV ratings or even MLS gear sold for the MLS. It just doesn't...someday it may. But not today.


Are you sure? I got into the NFL through Madden games. Now I watched the Patriots every week. Fair enough these people might not go out and buy MLS gear etc but it surely increases their interest in soccer and this increases the chances of them latching on to their local MLS side.


----------



## joezierer

Welkin said:


> In general, most US soccer fans tend to be younger, well educated, progressive, family focused with higher than average disposable income. Just like Seattle or Portland, this demographic fits the Twin Cities like a glove. US soccer has not caught on with the yahoo, ******* crowd (which would explain a lack of teams in the south) but appeals more to the type of individuals which populate many of the better metropolitan centers (which is why I don't think MLS will work in Vegas). The Twin Cities should have been in the MLS many years a go.


Yes when I think _Soccer Mom_ I think young liberals and not middle aged suburbanite ********.


----------



## matthemod

Kerrybai said:


> Are you sure? I got into the NFL through Madden games. Now I watched the Patriots every week. Fair enough these people might not go out and buy MLS gear etc but it surely increases their interest in soccer and this increases the chances of them latching on to their local MLS side.


This is definitely what happened with my friends in College. I studied at Indiana University for a year with a bunch of homespun Hoosiers who had never played the sport, but became addicted to FIFA (09 I believe) to the point they actually wanted to play the sport for real.

Just one anecdote of course, but it does show how it helps the popularity of the sport.


----------



## Kerrybai

matthemod said:


> This is definitely what happened with my friends in College. I studied at Indiana University for a year with a bunch of homespun Hoosiers who had never played the sport, but became addicted to FIFA (09 I believe) to the point they actually wanted to play the sport for real.
> 
> Just one anecdote of course, but it does show how it helps the popularity of the sport.


Funnily enough I had a similar experience with exchange students from Rutgers University. I got one of them into Fifa and he now follows Liverpool and has also attended NY Red Bulls games in New Jersey, although I can't vouch for whether or not Fifa was the cause for this but before arriving in Ireland he had no interest in the sport.


----------



## willygtoc




----------



## bd popeye

Kerrybai said:


> Are you sure? I got into the NFL through Madden games. Now I watched the Patriots every week. Fair enough these people might not go out and buy MLS gear etc but it surely increases their interest in soccer and this increases the chances of them latching on to their local MLS side.


I'm sure. But of course I'm sixty one years of age and have little interest in soccer. I guess millennials that claim to be soccer fans don't buy the gear, talk about the sports or watch it on Tv or online. If they did the MLS would have a much bigger Tv contract. $90 million is chump change in my opinion.


----------



## RFSK

Are there any updates on Beckhams talks with Genting about having a stadium on the Resorts World miami's site? And if the talks fail to make a deal. Are there still a realistic chance of Miami/Beckham getting a MLS franchise...


----------



## bd popeye

RFSK said:


> Are there any updates on Beckhams talks with Genting about having a stadium on the Resorts World miami's site? And if the talks fail to make a deal. Are there still a realistic chance of Miami/Beckham getting a MLS franchise...


No, I am not. For if I was I go to San Diego and build the Chargers a new stadium and build an SSS adjacent to the new Chargers stadium and lobby the MLS to place the former Chivas team in San Diego.

Since I do not like to argue the I'll let numbers speak for themselves. Perhaps in 15-20 years maybe sooner the MLS will be one of the top revenue generating sports league on this planet. 

Many links in this google search about the value of pro-sports;

*Pro Sports revenue Google search | Forbes*


----------



## Kerrybai

bd popeye said:


> I'm sure. But of course I'm sixty one years of age and have little interest in soccer. I guess millennials that claim to be soccer fans don't buy the gear, talk about the sports or watch it on Tv or online. If they did the MLS would have a much bigger Tv contract. $90 million is chump change in my opinion.


Fair enough, but every little helps. I'm focusing more on the small increases in revenue and how everything can contribute to improving soccer in the states.


----------



## bd popeye

Kerrybai said:


> Fair enough, but every little helps. I'm focusing more on the small increases in revenue and how everything can contribute to improving soccer in the states.


Agreed!....And I stated in August of 2013 that someday that soccer would be the #1 or #2 sport in the US.... Times are Changing..



bd popeye said:


> *OUTSTANDING* demonstration of support by the Sounders fans last evening.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta say after watching this video I'm convinced that someday soccer will be the #1 or #2 sport in popularity in the US. It's going to happen...


----------



## GreenHornet553

bd popeye said:


> Agreed!....And I stated in August of 2013 that someday that soccer would be the #1 or #2 sport in the US.... Times are Changing..


Yeah, very much so. It's crazy how much the sport has grown in the US and Canada since '96, as well as the quality of the league. Granted it isn't at the level of the top leagues of Europe, but it is getting there. Hopefully the HGP movement in MLS and the expansion of the salary cap will help with this.


----------



## slipperydog

Garber on MLS expansion: "If we don't have the right stadium, we're not going to Miami. We don't have that stadium finalized today."


----------



## slipperydog

D.C. Council votes to approve soccer stadium deal, paving way for games in 2017

2nd and final vote will be 12/16.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...2fb152-7a43-11e4-9a27-6fdbc612bff8_story.html

The race to exude competence now looks likely to be contested between just New England and NYC FC.


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

Great news.


I think that Revs winning the Cup on sunday would be a great push towards sss in Boston.


----------



## RMB2007

Vikings new stadium in soccer mode:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=119579295&postcount=1509


----------



## slipperydog

I can't why the league was opt for a football stadium with an artificial surface over a soccer-specific stadium built collectively by the owners of the MN United, the Twins, and the Timberwolves.


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> D.C. Council votes to approve soccer stadium deal, paving way for games in 2017
> 
> 2nd and final vote will be 12/16.
> 
> The race to exude competence now looks likely to be contested between just New England and NYC FC.


Alle-friggin-luia.


----------



## ielag

slipperydog said:


> I can't why the league was opt for a football stadium with an artificial surface over a soccer-specific stadium built collectively by the owners of the MN United, the Twins, and the Timberwolves.


I don't believe the MN United ownership group has come out publicly to how they'll finance their stadium. I'm sure they'll try to squeeze some public money into the project at first or get the city to hand over land. They certainly have the combined wealth to privately finance a stadium, but probably won't stop them at least trying to get some handouts.


----------



## BoulderGrad

ielag said:


> I don't believe the MN United ownership group has come out publicly to how they'll finance their stadium. I'm sure they'll try to squeeze some public money into the project at first or get the city to hand over land. They certainly have the combined wealth to privately finance a stadium, but probably won't stop them at least trying to get some handouts.


Which is exactly why its not considered a done deal yet and what may ultimately give the team to the Vikings group. They already have a stadium with concrete and steel rising out of the ground and the money of the Vikings behind them. Not that the Twins and T-wolves are small investors by any means, they just have a few more questions marks associated with their bid.

On a personal note, unless the United Group have some trick up their sleeves to pay for the stadium 100% (land and all) which I seriously doubt, it would suck to see the citizens of Minneapolis (and the state of Minnesota) hit up for yet another stadium project. Every single major pro team would be playing in their own stadiums (even the college teams). Last time I checked, Minneapolis, while still a bustling city, is not on the level where there are enough concerts, shows, events etc to justify filling events in 5 separate venues. Someone's going to lose money somewhere.


----------



## SJAnfield

RFSK said:


> what they wouldn't get from Parking money they would make from bum on seats, i'm sure Galaxy could have an average attendance near the sounders if not more with them moving to farmers


They can't fill their 25k stadium now


----------



## bd popeye

SJAnfield said:


> They can't fill their 25k stadium now


The Galaxy could sellout all games if they were allowed to sell all the seats....There are restrictions for weekday games.

Read this..

http://www.soccerex.com/media-centr...rison-of-los-angeles-galaxy-and-fc-barcelona/



> Because the Galaxy shares their home stadium with California State University, Dominquez Hills, the team must limit the number of tickets they can sell for games played on a weekday. This agreement has been in place since 2003 when the Galaxy built their soccer specific stadium on the college grounds. Limited parking for students, faculty and staff of the university is the reason cited for limiting ticket sales for mid-week games.


----------



## ielag

bd popeye said:


> The Galaxy could sellout all games if they were allowed to sell all the seats....There are restrictions for weekday games.
> 
> Read this..
> 
> http://www.soccerex.com/media-centr...rison-of-los-angeles-galaxy-and-fc-barcelona/


The Galaxy play like one midweek game a year at home, and a lot of times it's during the summer when there's no restrictions. The restriction usually comes into play when the Galaxy are hosting a Champions League game, and not like those games would sell out anyways.

The biggest issue with Galaxy attendance (not that it's horrible or anything) is an incompetent marketing department and ticket prices that rival the biggest clubs in Europe. Ticket prices are being lowered by about 14% for 2015.


----------



## bd popeye

ielag said:


> The Galaxy play like one midweek game a year at home, and a lot of times it's during the summer when there's no restrictions. The restriction usually comes into play when the Galaxy are hosting a Champions League game, and not like those games would sell out anyways.
> 
> The biggest issue with Galaxy attendance (not that it's horrible or anything) is an incompetent marketing department and ticket prices that rival the biggest clubs in Europe. Ticket prices are being lowered by about 14% for 2015.


Thank you. I did not know that.

Could it be that the horrific traffic and location of the stadium affects attendance?


----------



## ielag

bd popeye said:


> Thank you. I did not know that.
> 
> Could it be that the horrific traffic and location of the stadium affects attendance?


Traffic isn't that bad for Saturday games, and it's very close to 3 freeways.

Is Carson the best location? No. Is it horrible? Absolutely not.

But the Galaxy should be able to sell out every game by just drawing from a 20 mile radius of the stadium alone. But it definitely feels like the front office recognizes there needs to be a lot of improvement in their engagement with the fans.

Ticket prices have been by far the #1 complaint from fans as to why they don't attend more games. Prices actually increased after Beckham left. The cheapest individual game ticket this year was like $32 after fees, and there was maybe 500 of those seats available in the 2nd deck. To sit behind the north goal was $55, general admission behind the south goal was $40.


----------



## bd popeye

ielag said:


> Ticket prices have been by far the #1 complaint from fans as to why they don't attend more games. Prices actually increased after Beckham left. The cheapest individual game ticket this year was like $32 after fees, and there was maybe 500 of those seats available in the 2nd deck. To sit behind the north goal was $55, general admission behind the south goal was $40.


That is rather high and not exactly family friendly.

Thanks again for the information.


----------



## ielag

bd popeye said:


> That is rather high and not exactly family friendly.
> 
> Thanks again for the information.


As well as way overpriced awful in-stadium concessions, and $20 parking that's on the opposite side of the Cal State Dominguez Hills campus.


----------



## BoulderGrad

RFSK said:


> for arguments sake Lets say, the Rams moves to Inglewood and Davis sells of his majority share to Aeg, to give Farmers Fields a green lit...
> 
> Well it would be almost obvious, that Galaxy would be joining the Raiders into Farmers Field.. But would that have implications on LAFC's first choice, the LA expo site, considering, the two sites proximity? and would it instead be more likely, that LAFC would be moving to Inglewood instead??


Why would it be "almost obvious"? Watching the hissy fit people throw about teams sharing NFL stadiums and the fact that LA Galaxy already have their own stadium that is plenty big enough for their needs that they are the sole tenant of (and it has GRASS!) would make it seem like its "almost obvious" they'd be staying put regardless.


----------



## RFSK

ielag said:


> It won't happen, just accept it. And the thought of a soccer club in L.A. playing on artificial turf would also limit their chances of signing big name designated players like the Beckhams and Keanes of the world.


Accept it? you make it sound like, you telling me that Santa doesn't exist! what do i care, i'm just giving my two cents... plans always change...

ideally i would like a a football stadium at Chavez Ravine, and the the Dodgers moving to the La Expo site.. and if that happens, guess what it would mean? LA Fc is gonna play there...



SJAnfield said:


> They can't fill their 25k stadium now


I'm giving you an extra go, is that your final answer ? 


bd popeye said:


> Thank you. I did not know that.
> 
> Could it be that the horrific traffic and location of the stadium affects attendance?





ielag said:


> Traffic isn't that bad for Saturday games, and it's very close to 3 freeways.
> 
> Is Carson the best location? No. Is it horrible? Absolutely not.
> 
> But the Galaxy should be able to sell out every game by just drawing from a 20 mile radius of the stadium alone. But it definitely feels like the front office recognizes there needs to be a lot of improvement in their engagement with the fans.
> 
> Ticket prices have been by far the #1 complaint from fans as to why they don't attend more games. Prices actually increased after Beckham left. The cheapest individual game ticket this year was like $32 after fees, and there was maybe 500 of those seats available in the 2nd deck. To sit behind the north goal was $55, general admission behind the south goal was $40.


Ofcourse it's a problem, that the Stadium is in Carsons! why do you think that the MLS is insisting on having clubs near Downtown, so that it's easier for the exec's to go clubbin' afterwards? They have conducted a study, that shows, people who are interested in soccer live in urban areas. and not everyone has a car, therefor, an area thats easily accessible via public transport is more viable...



BoulderGrad said:


> Why would it be "almost obvious"? Watching the hissy fit people throw about teams sharing NFL stadiums and the fact that LA Galaxy already have their *own* stadium that is plenty big enough for their needs that they are the sole tenant of (and it has GRASS!) would make it seem like its "almost obvious" they'd be staying put regardless.


 I never understood people who started a sentence with name calling, and undermining others.. and you are the one throwing tantrums? thats a bit ironic isn't it 
For me it would be obvious because according to the scenario i put up, it would mean that Aeg would own at least a chunk of Farmers Field, it's location is far better and more suited for soccer demographics. They own Galaxy so these things alone would make it obvious for me.. they dont own the StubHub center, they only operate it, so they don't have there own Stadium, they lease it... They can install FieldTurf/AstroTurf, sure it's not grass, but it'll do the job..


----------



## slipperydog

LAFC owners looking to Seattle for guidance



> And that's a model MLS' fledgling Los Angeles Football Club is trying to follow. That's not the official name, by the way. The team says the fans will pick that, just as the fans are being asked to choose the team's colors and logo and even vote on where its new stadium should be situated when the expansion team begins play in 2017.
> 
> Because it is replacing the disbanded Chivas USA as the second MLS franchise in L.A., the team was given an unusually long gestation period — 29 months — to prepare. That will allow ownership time to really listen to fans before building its stadium, choosing its soccer personnel and developing a culture.
> 
> It also gives ownership time to learn from other teams. Penn said Roth spoke to some of the LAFC owners before they bought into MLS and "he had some wise words of advice. We were all ears."


http://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-soccer-baxter-20141214-story.html


----------



## master_klon

San Jose Earthquakes stadium










https://twitter.com/imperiosismico/status/543942089600274432


----------



## slipperydog

The USL Pro conference alignment for 2015 has been announced.


----------



## ielag

RFSK said:


> Ofcourse it's a problem, that the Stadium is in Carsons! why do you think that the MLS is insisting on having clubs near Downtown, so that it's easier for the exec's to go clubbin' afterwards? They have conducted a study, that shows, people who are interested in soccer live in urban areas. and not everyone has a car, therefor, an area thats easily accessible via public transport is more viable...


Then Houston and Kansas City should be the opposite in terms of support currently, right?

The #1 thing when it comes to attendance is how competent is your ownership group? 

I do feel the Galaxy are going to eventually be in the downtown area, but it won't be any time soon seeing that their current stadium is just 11 years old, and AEG is putting $15 million of improvements into it this offseason.


----------



## RFSK

ielag said:


> Then Houston and Kansas City should be the opposite in terms of support currently, right?
> 
> The #1 thing when it comes to attendance is how competent is your ownership group?
> 
> I do feel the Galaxy are going to eventually be in the downtown area, but it won't be any time soon seeing that their current stadium is just 11 years old, and AEG is putting $15 million of improvements into it this offseason.


 so because 'Tom and Dick' passed the exams without studying, Harry doesn't have to study either? Listen, just because Houston and Kansas, are succesful doesn't it mean that it's the blueprint everyone should follow, and who says, that they wouldn't be more succesful in a more centrally located stadium 

Aeg, had to make those upgrades, those were necessary because the regular audience were complaining about them for a long while. How long do you think it would take, for a new Stadium to be built ? by 17/18 at the quickest?


----------



## Bori427

Dynamo Stadium is in downtown and the attendance hasn't been that great.


----------



## GunnerJacket

With the support of MLS and several strong (for the USA, anyway) independent brands this makes for a pretty strong line-up. I'm not sure if they're financially capable of moving up to Division II status as per FIFA' classifications but quite frankly this seems like it would be more appealing a league than the NASL with its 10-12 member line-up. Especially as many of these teams have pretty decent home venues.

Either way, the investment toward the professional game will help build access to/for fans as well as deepening the player pool. Still a tough go making kids aspire to play the game here in the states but the trend is going the right way.



slipperydog said:


> The USL Pro conference alignment for 2015 has been announced.


----------



## RMB2007

@AZUnitedSC:



> AZUnitedSC is moving to @scottsdaleaz Stadium for the 2015 @USLPRO season.












https://twitter.com/AZUnitedSC


----------



## Topher51

slipperydog said:


> The USL Pro conference alignment for 2015 has been announced.


Ok, educate me. I know the Pittsburgh Riverhounds are an affiliate of the Houston Dynamo. Are the second squads of all the MLS teams in USLPRO essentially the same thing, but just based in the same city and their parent club? Will USLPRO be the equivalent of AAA baseball or AHL hockey?


----------



## GunnerJacket

Topher51 said:


> Ok, educate me. I know the Pittsburgh Riverhounds are an affiliate of the Houston Dynamo. Are the second squads of all the MLS teams in USLPRO essentially the same thing, but just based in the same city and their parent club? Will USLPRO be the equivalent of AAA baseball or AHL hockey?


It will be very similar. If I understand it correctly, teams that are directly owned by an MLS club will operate just like a youth or development squad for the parent organization. As such the movement of players can be pretty fluid back and forth. They'll share training grounds, coaching staff, and often practice together.

For independent clubs affiliated with MLS teams there can be movement of players but it's less automatic and may not be structured to facilitate in-season movement. For instance, Houston may wish to dump a player to Pittsburgh for a 1/2 season to recover and train but unless the Riverhounds can swallow the salary it may not prove as feasible. These contracts are largely to confirm some off-season shared training agreements and, more importantly, gives the MLS club first dibs to try and sign a player before he becomes a free agent or enters the MLS draft.

. . . .

What will be interesting is if more MLS teams create secondary/development sides will there be a push to separate those teams from the independent teams. Because with more B teams in the fold, and especially if the NASL teams merge into USL, I wonder from an identity standpoint the likes of Rochester, Austin and others would then prefer to stand apart? From a macro scale model it would be best for the MLS teams to have full developmental sides, but for those teams/cities incapable of matching MLS support and money would they want to be seen hanging with the developmental teams or playing at some level viewed as in-between?


----------



## will101

Topher51 said:


> Ok, educate me. I know the Pittsburgh Riverhounds are an affiliate of the Houston Dynamo. Are the second squads of all the MLS teams in USLPRO essentially the same thing, but just based in the same city and their parent club? Will USLPRO be the equivalent of AAA baseball or AHL hockey?


It's hard for me to answer exactly. because I don't know diddly about the AHL. Some teams are owned by the MLS club, examples are the Galaxy II and Real Monarchs SLC. But AFAIK the Quakes and the Republic have no ties to each other, or any other team at the 'other level'.


----------



## rafagoiasec

Congratulations to DCU and it's fans. Now left NE Revs and NYCFC.


----------



## el_Fernando

Awesome! Just read this on SI.com. Congrats DCU fans!



ChesterCopperpot said:


>


----------



## Legomaniac

:banana::banana::banana::banana:

*City Council approves funding for Las Vegas soccer stadium​*







*By Conor Shine (contact) Conor Shine
Published Wednesday, Dec. 17, 2014 | 10:05 a.m.
Updated 13 minutes ago*


A split Las Vegas City Council approved public funding today for a $200 million downtown soccer stadium, marking a major turning point in the yearlong debate.

The council voted 4-3 to approve financing terms that call for the city to contribute $56.5 million toward the stadium’s construction costs. Not included in that price tag are the value of the city-owned land at Symphony Park the stadium will be built on and a parking garage the city will build.

Mayor Carolyn Goodman led a group of supporters for the project that included Councilmen Steve Ross, Ricki Barlow and Bob Coffin.

Councilman Bob Beers, Councilman Stavros Anthony and Councilwoman Lois Tarkanian voted agaisnt the funding.

The decision puts Las Vegas on its way to getting a soccer stadium and its first major professional sports team, as long as the developers can convince Major League Soccer to award them an expansion franchise.

The city has been negotiating the stadium deal since May with the development partnership of Baltimore-based Cordish Cos. and local group Findlay Sports and Entertainment. City leaders have dreamed of a downtown stadium or arena for more than a decade, but no project has advanced this far.

The deal approved today calls for the city to issue $50 million in bonds, with half going to pay for stadium construction and half going to park projects around the city. The city will also pay $31.5 million for infrastructure improvements to the 13-acre Symphony Park site.

The city plans to build a $20 million parking garage to support Symphony Park that the stadium would be able to use for 90 events a year. Finally, city-owned land valued at $38 million to $48 million would be contributed at no cost to the developer.

The developers will contribute $133.5 million toward the stadium construction costs and will cover the costs of acquiring a team — expected to top $100 million.

The stadium will be privately owned and operated by the developer, although the city will have some access to host community events.

Cordish also committed to invest $250 million in additional retail, office and residential development around the stadium site.

No stadium will be built unless Las Vegas is awarded the lone remaining MLS expansion franchise. The MLS board of governors is expected to choose between Las Vegas, Minneapolis and Sacramento sometime in the next six months.


----------



## Guest

I've clearly woken up to an alternate reality today.


----------



## carnifex2005

5portsF4n said:


> I've clearly woken up to an alternate reality today.


Another thing to blow your mind...

Taylor Twellman thinks the Sounders are looking into getting their own stadium. He breaks a lot of MLS stories, so this probably more than a rumour.


http://www.sounderatheart.com/2014/12/17/7406647/adrian-hanauer-taylor-twellman-sounders-stadium


----------



## Guest

carnifex2005 said:


> Another thing to blow your mind...
> 
> Taylor Twellman thinks the Sounders are looking into getting their own stadium. He breaks a lot of MLS stories, so this probably more than a rumour.
> 
> 
> http://www.sounderatheart.com/2014/12/17/7406647/adrian-hanauer-taylor-twellman-sounders-stadium


The tension over the turf could escalate, no doubt. My only worry is the lack of obvious land availability in dowtown Seattle. It would be borderline disastrous to leave the city. 

I really like the Sounders at Century Link, so I'm more hopeful of turf tech improving in the future rather than any move. 

You are right though, when Twellman speaks something is up.


----------



## boyerling3

Can Beckham choose another city besides Miami even at this stage? Think how much Vegas would love him if he would/could put a franchise there!


----------



## carnifex2005

boyerling3 said:


> Can Beckham choose another city besides Miami even at this stage? Think how much Vegas would love him if he would/could put a franchise there!


He can't choose another city. Beckham is stuck with using his franchise option only on Miami now.


----------



## Kerrybai

How is the location for the DC stadium? I think Chicago screwed up loaction wise and will not likely move for a long time. DC can't make the same mistake, do it right or don't do it at all.


----------



## GunnerJacket

DC's location should be fine, assuming the transit access is everything folks attest. It's in an area south of the Capitol that is undergoing regeneration, about 4 blocks from the Nats (100% publicly funded) stadium. 

Like I said, provided the venue doesn't suck this could become a huge win for MLS and DC.


----------



## MarkJF

slipperydog said:


> No, I don't believe Pittsburgh is forced to take Houston players they don't want. Or even if they do take them, they don't have to put them on the field. They are still their own team. That's why the wholly owned and operated model is better for MLS clubs.


Thanks for clearing that up. 

I don't like it here when players arrive on loan, but along with clauses regarding appearances and playing time, that is, manipulating team selection.


----------



## mamangvilla

only a single spot left at the moment, Sacramento have an amazing support while Las Vegas have a stadium approved and ready to be build, Minnesota also looks very promising.... ugh, i'm torn


----------



## Topher51

Hell Yeah!!! I can't wait to get back for a match. 



ChesterCopperpot said:


>





GunnerJacket said:


> DC's location should be fine, assuming the transit access is everything folks attest. It's in an area south of the Capitol that is undergoing regeneration, about 4 blocks from the Nats (100% publicly funded) stadium.
> 
> Like I said, provided the venue doesn't suck this could become a huge win for MLS and DC.


The location could not be better, in my opinion. It is relatively easy to get in and out of by car, very easy by Metro or bus, walkable from the Mall and the neighborhood has gone from dilapidated to a place anyone would be thrilled to live, work or play in. If anyone is interested in learning more about the SE DC Redevelopment, check out this site: http://www.jdland.com/dc/index.cfm The blogger has been documenting the redevelopment since it started back in 2003 or so.


----------



## ielag

mamangvilla said:


> only a single spot left at the moment, Sacramento have an amazing support while Las Vegas have a stadium approved and ready to be build, Minnesota also looks very promising.... ugh, i'm torn


MLS is not stopping at 24. Garber threw out the 24 clubs by 2020 line mainly to get cities/owners to stop just talking about wanting an MLS club and putting their money where there mouth is.

The new TV contract expires after 2022 season. I think we'll have at least 28 teams by 2023.


----------



## Guest

mamangvilla said:


> only a single spot left at the moment, Sacramento have an amazing support while Las Vegas have a stadium approved and ready to be build, Minnesota also looks very promising.... ugh, i'm torn


Minneapolis is going to be an expansion team by 2020. It just depends on which of the two investment groups they go with. MLS has a big hard on for Minn, and rightly so.


----------



## will101

A tweet from the Quakes this morning announced that the opening match at Avaya Stadium would be against Chicago on March 22.


----------



## will101

Not a common sight in the Bay Area the past few years. And a fair number of solar panels going up. Tweeted by Quakes prez Dave Kaval.


----------



## willygtoc

I like the San Jose stadium but the exterior looks too cheap. 

An inexpensive solution could be tarps like in Mestalla stadium.


----------



## slipperydog

willygtoc said:


> I like the San Jose stadium but the exterior looks too cheap.


It's a trend for new stadiums in that area.


----------



## Guest

No rush, let everything develop organically. Here's hoping Avaya looks like Old Trafford in 50 years time.


----------



## weava

The St. Louis Rams are potentially getting a new riverfront stadium that could host MLS: 



> While in New York to meet with Grubman, Peacock also met with MLS commissioner Don Garber to gauge the soccer league’s interest in using a new Rams stadium as the home venue for an MLS expansion franchise. The MLS prefers soccer-specific stadiums but isn’t set on that. The MLS teams in Seattle and New England are housed in NFL stadiums. And the Falcons’ new stadium in Atlanta also will serve as the home for an MLS expansion franchise.


http://www.stltoday.com/sports/colu...cle_90b910cd-bebd-5069-804c-1c845cd7109d.html


----------



## master_klon

willygtoc said:


> I like the San Jose stadium but the exterior looks too cheap.


The facade may have been delayed for a year as the club works through new options. Not exactly sure anymore the reasons why the planned facade was rejected, but they have been trialling the materials earlier in the year.

Hopefully the club does install a temporary solution to give the stadium a finished look.


----------



## BlazerBlaze

Sporting Park is currently hosting the NCAA DII Football Championship on ESPN2.










https://twitter.com/MaritzaSJones/status/546417496660537344


----------



## irani1378

BlazerBlaze said:


> Sporting Park is currently hosting the NCAA DII Football Championship on ESPN2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/MaritzaSJones/status/546417496660537344


hno:


----------



## JJG

irani1378 said:


> hno:


Division II... small schools that few people care about.


----------



## weava

JJG said:


> Division II... small schools that few people care about.


The game also got no mention locally. If I would have known about a football championship being played in my city I may have made plans to go watch it if it was cheap.


----------



## will101

weava said:


> The game also got no mention locally. If I would have known about a football championship being played in my city I may have made plans to go watch it if it was cheap.


I just looked up a story about it in the Kansas City Star. Among other things it mentioned that tickets started at $20. But it wasn't that exciting of a game. Colorado-Pueblo shut out Minnesota State, 13-0.


----------



## Guest

Report: New York City FC stadium search now focused on Queens, Brooklyn

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...fc-stadium-search-now-focused-queens-brooklyn



> It’s looking increasingly unlikely that New York City FC’s soccer-specific stadium will be built in the Bronx, according to a Manchester City club representative.
> 
> Martin Edelmen, a New York property attorney and a member of Manchester City’s board of directors, says NYCFC’s stadium search is now focused on two different boroughs.
> 
> “We had focused on the Bronx but that didn’t work out and we weren’t able to find anything else in the Bronx that made sense,” Edelman told the New York Daily News. “So we’re looking in Queens and Brooklyn, and each potential has to be analyzed for construction, for access to public transportation, for parking, it’s a very complicated process.
> 
> “There’s no rush, but there’s a rush. In other words we’re not going to just settle for something, we’re going to find a place where everybody is comfortable doing it, and it makes economic sense to do it. But we’re not just sitting and waiting for the place to come to us.”
> 
> NYCFC have previously expressed interest in building a stadium in the Queens neighborhood of Flushing as well as adjacent to Yankee Stadium in the Bronx, but plans for both sites fell through.
> 
> New York City FC will open their 2015 expansion season at Yankee Stadium in the Bronx on March 15 against the New England Revolution. The club’s home schedule 2015 will not have an impact on the schedule of the stadium's primary tenants, Major League Baseball's New York Yankees.
> 
> According to the Yankees, the stadium will be downsized from its current capacity of 49,642 seats to 33,444 seats for MLS matches. The field will be 110 yards by 70 yards. Conversion of the stadium from baseball to soccer, and vice versa, takes three days.


----------



## BlazerBlaze

weava said:


> The game also got no mention locally. If I would have known about a football championship being played in my city I may have made plans to go watch it if it was cheap.


Game had been played in Florence, AL for the last 27 years. NW Missouri State and the other midwest power houses got tired of how hard it is to get to so their conference headed up the Kansas City bid. It's easier to get to but doesn't have the local flair that the game in Florence did.


----------



## JJG

BlazerBlaze said:


> Game had been played in Florence, AL for the last 27 years. NW Missouri State and the other midwest power houses got tired of how hard it is to get to so their conference headed up the Kansas City bid. It's easier to get to but doesn't have the local flair that the game in Florence did.


Just a comparison with our high school games. 

I don't know how many were out there for the DII title, but I'm positive it was less than this...


----------



## carnifex2005

JJG said:


> Just a comparison with our high school games.
> 
> I don't know how many were out there for the DII title, but I'm positive it was less than this...


And 52k came out for the Allen / Cyprus Ranch 6A final the next night. Crazy...

https://twitter.com/texashsfootball/status/546520724413087744


----------



## JJG

carnifex2005 said:


> And 52k came out for the Allen / Cyprus Ranch 6A final the next night. Crazy...
> 
> https://twitter.com/texashsfootball/status/546520724413087744


*Cypress

And it was actually in the same night. 3 games that day, and I went to the first. Aledo (a team we played against all the time when I was in high school) vs. Temple (my dad's home town).


----------



## master_klon

New Real Salt Lake scoreboard almost completed.









http://instagram.com/p/w7NHyqsFWa/

http://www.realsaltlake.com/news/20...es-south-end-video-board-installation-details


----------



## The Game Is Up

Revs closing in on building new stadium

http://www.espnfc.com/video/espn-fc-tv/86/video/2212927


----------



## RMB2007

Some design changes made to Orlando's future stadium:













































More info and images in the link below (pdf file):

www.cityoforlando.net/city-planning/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2014/12/ARB2014-00091report.pdf


----------



## Lakeland

Detroit soccer update: Stadium details coming; USL Pro club team delayed


> By Bill Shea
> 
> The organizer of a plan to build a soccer-specific stadium in Detroit said he intends to have renderings of it done by January, but he hasn’t picked a location or finalized details of the new venue.
> 
> Those details will come later next year, said Dan Duggan, who announced in April he had preliminary approval from the Tampa, Fla.-based United Soccer Leagues to launch a USL Professional Division expansion team in Detroit.
> 
> Duggan’s plan for a new fully professional team includes a soccer stadium somewhere in the city. He has not disclosed who is creating the stadium renderings.
> 
> A June 15 deadline for Duggan to provide USL Pro with financing details for the expansion team and a 5,000-seat stadium in Detroit has passed, but that’s not a problem, those involved said.
> 
> “We remain in active dialogue with Dan Duggan regarding his efforts to bring USL Pro to Detroit. It is apparent he is making progress and we support his initiative,” said United Soccer Leagues President Tim Holt via email at the time.
> 
> September was the deadline to have everything in place for a new team to play in 2015.
> 
> The league doesn't disclose financial details about expansion teams, but USL Pro teams reportedly have been bought for more than $500,000.
> 
> The new Detroit team would cost about $2 million to operate annually, Duggan told Crain's in April, and he estimated a 5,000-seat stadium in the city could be built for up to $5 million.
> 
> Duggan said he’s looking for 2.5 to 7 acres of land for a stadium complex that also would include two outdoor practice fields for adult and youth soccer use. He has said the stadium could be incorporated into an existing developed area or be a stand-alone project.
> 
> Duggan said he looked at sites in Pontiac, Livonia and Canton Township before deciding on downtown Detroit.
> 
> The proposed stadium would seat 5,000 with room for 3,000 more on open hills in the end zones.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Video news reports from Las Vegas, Washigton and St. Louis

KSNV (NBC) - Las Vegas, NV
News 3 Live at Sunrise

http://mms.tveyes.com/PlaybackPortal.aspx?SavedEditID=4697ed19-7823-4e67-915b-71216f26ac85


NewsChannel 8 - Washington, D.C.
Weekend Evening Report

http://mms.tveyes.com/PlaybackPortal.aspx?SavedEditID=24ce9fbc-b9c2-4d1e-9c48-446d92e62e49

KTVI-STL (FOX) - St. Louis, MO
Fox 2 News at 6:00am

http://mms.tveyes.com/PlaybackPortal.aspx?SavedEditID=d28817ce-da34-4330-9e1e-5982600164ae


2 new MLS soccer stadiums approved

http://www.examiner.com/article/2-new-mls-soccer-stadiums-approved


----------



## Kerrybai

Santa has been good to the MLS. Yay.


----------



## vanbasten88

Kerrybai said:


> Santa has been good to the MLS. Yay.


I really hope DC United get their stadium...so many years in crumbling RFK. Looks like a good downtown location too


----------



## WesTexas

JJG said:


> Just a comparison with our high school games.
> 
> I don't know how many were out there for the DII title, but I'm positive it was less than this...


all i have to say is....TEXAS!


----------



## WesTexas

RMB2007 said:


> Some design changes made to Orlando's future stadium:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More info and images in the link below (pdf file):
> 
> www.cityoforlando.net/city-planning/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2014/12/ARB2014-00091report.pdf


Love it. Very English and has a lot of room for future potential.


----------



## GunnerJacket

WesTexas said:


> all i have to say is....TEXAS!


Course, you could also say that's 52k people with misplaced priorities or nothing better to do in cattle country.


----------



## rantanamo

GunnerJacket said:


> Course, you could also say that's 52k people with misplaced priorities or nothing better to do in cattle country.


right, in the middle of the metroplex with Christmas shopping to do.:nuts:


----------



## GunnerJacket

rantanamo said:


> right, in the middle of the metroplex with Christmas shopping to do.:nuts:


Tongue in cheek. I know full well Dallas isn't, say, Manhattan, KS.


----------



## The Game Is Up

A year later, soccer stadium still not reality in Miami

http://www.cbs12.com/template/inews_wire/wires.regional.fl/371c8b8a-www.cbs12.com.shtml

Miami offers Beckham temporary stadium in bid to be 'world class'

http://www.insideworldfootball.com/...am-temporary-stadium-in-bid-to-be-world-class


----------



## BoulderGrad

The Game Is Up said:


> A year later, soccer stadium still not reality in Miami
> 
> http://www.cbs12.com/template/inews_wire/wires.regional.fl/371c8b8a-www.cbs12.com.shtml
> 
> Miami offers Beckham temporary stadium in bid to be 'world class'
> 
> http://www.insideworldfootball.com/...am-temporary-stadium-in-bid-to-be-world-class


"Several Stadium proposals" = 2 so far. The downtown park and the Royal Caribbean site. At best, any other site has merely been suggested as a possibility, but with no real solid proposals.

And they've been doing a pretty good job making it look like Miami is somehow the villain in all this. "How dare they interfere with what is obviously a no brainer!! Look at the incompetence of the local government!!" 

Well... not quite... Cities tend to (and really should) have a lot more on their minds than what a new soccer team wants. As much as we like to think Soccer would be a big draw, I'm sure Royal Caribbean does far more for the local economy (bringing in throngs of tourists to the city) than a Beckham backed soccer team would every do. When they say "jump" the city smartly asks "how high?". Throw in the fact that they just spent a shit ton of money on the new waterfront park, and then the ass reaming they got on the Marlin's new stadium, and could you blame them for being a little apprehensive about blindly going along with Mr. Beckham?


----------



## GunnerJacket

Agreed. Compared to how the MLS has handled a lot of expansion-related announcements the Beckham-Miami story has been a debacle. Much of this stadium search should've been handled behind the scenes long before the league implied any sense of commitment. It's not all that hard to speak with officials in advance and determine viable locations and then investigate costs and availability for said properties. That's how many large scale developers scope out options for their projects. 

Between this and NYCFC MLS should be thankful everything else they've been doing has turned out pretty well.


----------



## RMB2007

Various images and info regarding the failed MEIS design for Orlando's new stadium:

www.meisstudio.com/orlando-soccer-stadium


----------



## SounderBruce

RMB2007 said:


> Various images and info regarding the failed MEIS design for Orlando's new stadium:
> 
> www.meisstudio.com/orlando-soccer-stadium


It looks really nice and compact, but I don't see much room for expansion at first glance. The separated south stand is a bit weird too, since those kind of situations usually only happen when a part of the stadium is rebuilt instead of being deliberately built with the rest of the stadium.


----------



## WesTexas

I guess it is to try and make it look like an older stadium than it is.


----------



## slipperydog

Charlotte Independence to construct 4,000 seat temporary stadium

http://www.crowntownsoccer.com/ramblewood-soccer-complex/


----------



## The Game Is Up

Is NYRB for sale?

http://www.bigapplesoccer.com/columns/lewis.php?article_id=39806


----------



## Bori427

Hopefully!


----------



## carnifex2005

Here's a nice photo tour of Avaya Stadium in San Jose...

http://imgur.com/a/0giZu

For more information on the stadium from the Redditor who took the shots, follow this link.


----------



## weava

Proposed Riverfront Stadium - St Louis Missouri. 64,000 (30,000 lower bowl for soccer configuration)


----------



## The Game Is Up

MLS Franchise in Miami Announcement Coming Soon According to Multiple Sources

http://southernlegionmls.com/mls-fr...nt-coming-soon-according-to-multiple-sources/

49ers, Earthquakes want big soccer tournament at Levi's

http://www.mercurynews.com/earthqua...rthquakes-want-big-soccer-tournament-at-levis

Another article about Miami, in Spanish: http://www.diariolasamericas.com/48...con-otras-dos-propuestas-para-el-estadio.html

(Rumors in that article about a plot of privately-owned land near the airport and a plot near the Marlins Stadium)


----------



## BoulderGrad

weava said:


> Proposed Riverfront Stadium - St Louis Missouri. 64,000 (30,000 lower bowl for soccer configuration)


So Edward Jones Dome without a roof pretty much? This is totally worth $900mil.


----------



## JJG

BoulderGrad said:


> So Edward Jones Dome without a roof pretty much? This is totally worth $900mil.


I didn't want to call it that because I knew someone else would, anyway. 

That's basically all it is, and I don't see the Rams staying...


----------



## WesTexas

We think it and he says it.


----------



## Cjones2451

Wow, really not a bad seat in the house. I think watching from the suites would be a great game experience too:cheers:



carnifex2005 said:


> Here's a nice photo tour of Avaya Stadium in San Jose...
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/0giZu
> 
> For more information on the stadium from the Redditor who took the shots, follow this link.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Suburbanist said:


> Is it being mismanaged?
> 
> I know Red Bull is repositioning some assets (they are apparently considering selling their other soccer teams except the Austrian one), but hasn't NYRB been having a good ride on MLS?


They just fired their coach after he won them the supporters shield and got them within a goal of the MLScup. They're either cutting costs or the most demanding management ever.


----------



## The Game Is Up

NY Red Bulls fans behind #RedBullOut can’t hide anger at MLS SuperDraft, chanting for ownership change 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/soccer/red-bulls-fans-calling-ownership-change-article-1.2080630


----------



## master_klon

The meeting at the town hall was fun to watch. 

The first billboard of the NYRB supporters' campaign is live, at Lincoln Tunnel:


----------



## boyerling3

*MLS Commissioner Don Garber gives update on potential expansion cities, including St. Louis*



> PHILADELPHIA — The list of cities interested in an MLS expansion team is getting bigger, according to MLS Commissioner Don Garber.
> 
> The newest market to join the mix is the soccer hotbed of St. Louis, Missouri, which was last involved in an expansion bid that fell through in 2008-2009.
> 
> "I’m going to be out in St. Louis in the next couple of weeks," Garber told media between rounds of the 2015 MLS SuperDraft. "St. Louis has got a lot of activity going on with a stadium that they’re trying to get done for the [NFL] Rams. There’s a big soccer community out there and we’d love to see a soccer stadium downtown like they’re thinking about a football stadium.
> 
> "San Antonio has been very active," continued Garber. "There’s a lot of stuff going on. There’s a lot of interest in expansion."
> 
> Back in November, representatives from expansion bids in Las Vegas, Sacramento and Minneapolis visited MLS league headquarters in New York. On Thursday, Garber was asked specifically about Minneapolis, where two different groups are in discussions with the league.
> 
> "It’s very positive that we have multiple owners in an important market that want to come into Major League Soccer," Garber said. "We have got a lot of decisions we need to make. We are bullish on Minneapolis. We think it’s a good market, it’s an important market for us strategically from a geographic perspective.
> 
> "We love the two ownership groups. We’ve been spending time with both of them. We have work to do with both groups. But I’m very bullish on the market."
> 
> On the topic of stadiums, Garber highlighted recent developments for the San Jose Earthquakes — whose new Avaya Stadium opens in 2015 — and D.C. United, which won approval for a stadium in December from the Washington, D.C. City Council. "I can honestly tell you that 10 years ago we did not think we’d have as many stadiums as we have," he commented.
> 
> When asked about a soccer stadium for the New England Revolution, Garber indicated there was "a lot of energy in Boston which we're very excited about" and that "we’re hopeful to get something done there."The commissioner also gave an update on the quest of 2015 expansion side New York City FC to build a stadium. The club will play its 2015 home games at Yankee Stadium in the Bronx.
> 
> "We know that they’re active and they’ve had ongoing discussions," Garber said. "It’s a big focus for them and we’re very hopeful that they’re going to be able to be in a position to have a stadium for that club.
> 
> "It was part of their expectation coming in, part of our expectation granting them an expansion team and it’s part of what I think our fans are going to expect. It’s just going to take some time. It’s a difficult market."


Source


----------



## JJG

boyerling3 said:


> Source


Why do people think that having 3 teams in Texas would be "over-saturating"? 

Do they not know how many people live here...?


----------



## Calvin W

JJG said:


> Why do people think that having 3 teams in Texas would be "over-saturating"?
> 
> Do they not know how many people live here...?


About 2/3rds of California's population.


----------



## GunnerJacket

JJG said:


> Why do people think that having 3 teams in Texas would be "over-saturating"?
> 
> Do they not know how many people live here...?


Are we counting illegals?








:troll:


----------



## bd popeye

JJG said:


> Why do people think that having 3 teams in Texas would be "over-saturating"?
> 
> Do they not know how many people live here...?


Texas 2013 population estimate according to census.gov.;
26,448,193	

California population according to the same source.;
38,332,521



Calvin W said:


> About 2/3rds of California's population.


Roughly correct.


----------



## soup or man

Not to mention the size of both states. People from outside the US might find it hard to grasp how big both Texas and California are but they are enormous states.


----------



## bd popeye

soup or man said:


> Not to mention the size of both states. People from outside the US might find it hard to grasp how big both Texas and California are but they are enormous states.


Very true.... and not only that people in the US that live in a state like Iowa in which the people are very narcissistic....this includes population figures as well as land area.

...People in Iowa here are astounded to discover that the population of of San Diego County is greater than the entire state of Iowa.

Iowa pop. 2013....3,090,000

San Diego County pop. 2013...3,211,000

I lived in San Diego California from OCT 1977- AUG 2004.

Back on topic....I'm no soccer fan but I always wonder why San Diego is not on the MLS map for future expansion.. and I have an answer..no SSS or plans for one.


----------



## will101

soup or man said:


> Not to mention the size of both states. People from outside the US might find it hard to grasp how big both Texas and California are but they are enormous states.


So I live WNW of Rome near Corsica, and LA is a bit north of Sicily. That puts Seattle up near Amsterdam, and Phoenix is about where Athens is on the map. Interesting perspective.


----------



## WesTexas

bd popeye said:


> Texas 2013 population estimate according to census.gov.;
> 26,448,193
> 
> California population according to the same source.;
> 38,332,521
> 
> 
> 
> Roughly correct.


The problem is FOOTBALL. Well...it's not really a problem, it's more of an obstacle and you only see it that way if you like soccer more.


----------



## JJG

As far as population goes, we're 2nd, ONLY behind Cali. 

We have three NBA teams. I'm more than positive we could have 3 in the MLS... maybe even 4.


----------



## GunnerJacket

JJG said:


> Why do people think that having 3 teams in Texas would be "over-saturating"?
> 
> Do they not know how many people live here...?


Put simply I think there's a rudimentary perception issue related to state sizes vs. representation, and while several states have multiple metros capable of supporting 1 or more pro teams there's always that layer of state branding that gives people caution, or at least creates a sense of pushback. Put another way - If people viewed the lists by cities they'd have one opinion, but if they view the same by state their opinions might differ, I'd wager. People (raises hand) gripe about California seeming a demanding hoarder, or complain about Florida hogging so much attention... It's only natural that people hear "Texas" and feel some level of "_It's too much_." 

Just like long ago people hemmed and hawed when seemingly every pro team was in the northeast and particularly around NYC, calling for more geographical representation despite an overwhelming majority of the people living in the northeast. We understand market forces but we aspire for sports leagues to perhaps apply some additional balance to account for the little guy. (?)

The paradox of brand building - Once you become really big/popular people begin to hate you because you're big/popular.

So we simply cut Texas and California into two states each and in exchange wipe Delaware and Rhode Island off the map. Easy as cake.


----------



## boyerling3

GunnerJacket said:


> So we simply cut Texas and California into two states each and in exchange wipe Delaware and Rhode Island off the map. Easy as cake.


:lol: I would've chosen New Jersey and Iowa myself but that's alright.


----------



## El Turko

Amazing stadiums.NYFC will play in Yankee baseball stadium?


----------



## slipperydog

24 team USL Pro conference alignment/MLS affiliations finalized


----------



## boyerling3

El Turko said:


> Amazing stadiums.NYFC will play in Yankee baseball stadium?


That's correct.


----------



## WesTexas

So bad...


----------



## master-chivas

Why shouldn't they play in RedBull arena?


----------



## RMB2007

I guess we'll eventually see if this is just a bitter comment from Meis, or the winning design is indeed less exciting:


----------



## master_klon

I wouldn't read too much into that comment...I wouldn't imagine that he is bitter or that the winning design (and I wonder if he has seen that design yet) is worse. As does every designer/architect, he just believes in his design.


----------



## RMB2007

Meis has now removed all his earlier tweets regarding the two failed LAFC designs.


----------



## slipperydog

The company also took them down from the website. Make sure you have the photos above backed up on a hard drive, because they may otherwise never surface again.


----------



## BoulderGrad

slipperydog said:


> Wonder why that chick is staring at me.


"Do yyyyooouuu come with the stadium?"

"Oh you! huhuhuhe!"

"Do you come with the stadium?"

"Oh you! huhuhuhe!"

"Do you come with the stadium?".....


----------



## WesTexas

RMB2007 said:


> @Meisarch:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.meisstudio.com/lafc-stadium-urban


This was much better than the beach pool design. I hate little gimmicks like that. It is not the right way to be taken serious.


----------



## RMB2007

Proposed Indy Eleven stadium:





































www.stadiumforindiana.com


----------



## Benn

Great looking little stadium, but that $82 million price tag is insanely optimistic for what they are showing.


----------



## RMB2007

*Avaya Stadium*

@1CAvsfann:










https://twitter.com/1CAvsfann


----------



## GunnerJacket

RMB2007 said:


> Proposed Indy Eleven stadium:


Looks very sharp, so I appreciate the ambition. Very reminiscent of the stadium going up in Monterey, MX. 

Oh, and I love the verbiage on the graphic: "_Indiana will finally enjoy a world-class home for the world's game_!" Yes, finally! They've been waiting _so long _and trying _so hard _yet only now will they FINALLY enjoy a world class soccer stadium. 



Finally!


Benn said:


> Great looking little stadium, but that $82 million price tag is insanely optimistic for what they are showing.


Agreed. I'd assume the land, site prep and auxiliary development is extra. Doubt we'll see this one soon, though.



master_klon said:


> Wow, the second design (for LAFC) is impressive.


I liked that one, as well. Nice twist on the conventional 4-sided affair. To wit...


RMB2007 said:


> *Avaya Stadium*
> 
> @1CAvsfann:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/1CAvsfann


Methinks SJE should use the colonnade idea from above out beyond their open end! Sometimes picking up the other player's discard can provide the win!


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

That Indy Stadium is awesome for a SSS


----------



## The Real Gazmon

Is there any reason as to why North American stadia have open ended stands (3-sided) on a regular basis? I can only think that it is to allow concert stages etc.


----------



## ielag

The Real Gazmon said:


> Is there any reason as to why North American stadia have open ended stands (3-sided) on a regular basis? I can only think that it is to allow concert stages etc.


Mostly for future stadium expansion.


----------



## Guest

Even if the Indy Eleven stadium goes nowhere, I would love to see some other team steal that design down the line. Agree with Gunner, does have a bit of Monterrey about it.


----------



## GunnerJacket

The Real Gazmon said:


> Is there any reason as to why North American stadia have open ended stands (3-sided) on a regular basis? I can only think that it is to allow concert stages etc.


It's a cultural thing that evolved from when stadiums originally just built two sides and would fill in as needed. Not every stadium would need capacity to go all the way around, and since conventionally fans of US football prefer to sit on the sides they would leave building in the ends for last. For some stadiums this became a trademark appreciated by fans, especially if the open end gave way to a particular view. In other cases the open end often housed other structures (locker rooms and offices for the teams, usually) so it only made sense to fill those in when the demand was truly there. 

It also helps that US culture didn't have an established notion of placing opposing fans at the end opposite of the home team's die-hards. So even though many fans of European soccer despise the generic bowls they're seeing so often these days, there's a bit of a forced demand for that shape be requiring complete ends! Here in the states we see venues with fewer seats along the sidelines (Celtic Park, FC Twente...) and we wonder why there are fewer seats along the prime viewing anlge of the sidelines!


----------



## Lumbergo

^^not to mention that from a fan perspective it is better to have higher stands on 2 or 3 sides of the pitch rather than small, pathetic stands surrounding the entire pitch. this of course, is mostly only an issue when huge attendances aren't expected for a team - so anything under 20K really. and when it does come time to expand and it more easily done in an open end rather than trying to cram seats behind existing structures.


----------



## plmn

Expansion is sometimes a reason, but more often it is just the intended design. For example, Minnesota's TCF stadium was built with the ability to expand to 80K. But it would be done by putting on a third deck and the east end would remain open. And stadiums like the new Vikings and Falcons stadiums, U of P, Heinz, Lucas, and numerous others will never have full bowls. I think most soccer stadiums built this way are simply following the same design aesthetics rather than planning for future expansion. Although with the growing popularity of soccer, the expansion aspect makes a lot of sense.

On top of what has been mentioned about the best sightlines and aesthetics, it also adds to the game by introducing less predictable wind gusts and it helps general air circulation.


----------



## jbradway

In the last 24 hours Vivek Ranadive, managing general partner for the NBA Kings, and Jed York have joined the Sac Republic FC ownership group.

In an interview with the Sacramento Bee, Jed York stated that Sacramento had more 49er season ticket holders than San Francisco.


----------



## Riise

RMB2007 said:


> Proposed Indy Eleven stadium


That ground looks class.


----------



## joezierer

GunnerJacket said:


> Looks very sharp, so I appreciate the ambition. Very reminiscent of the stadium going up in Monterey, MX.
> 
> Oh, and I love the verbiage on the graphic: "_Indiana will finally enjoy a world-class home for the world's game_!" Yes, finally! They've been waiting _so long _and trying _so hard _yet only now will they FINALLY enjoy a world class soccer stadium.


Indiana's biggest soccer stadium is a former football field that holds like 4000, so they have a point.


----------



## The Game Is Up

David Beckham says progress still being made toward MLS stadium in Miami

http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/...ess-still-being-made-on-mls-stadium-in-miami/


----------



## Otto Racecar

joezierer said:


> Indiana's biggest soccer stadium is a former football field that holds like 4000, so they have a point.


More like 12,000 but I see your point.


----------



## GunnerJacket

joezierer said:


> Indiana's biggest soccer stadium is a former football field that holds like 4000, so they have a point.


I was commenting on the use of "finally," as if to suggest the community had been trying and searching for a soccer stadium all this time. No American community has been actively searching for something like that, on a serious scale at least, until they become a candidate for MLS. Which for Indiana is all of one year or not even yet.

If they land that stadium, though, more power to 'em.


----------



## Lakeland

Miami-Dade County eyes FIU stadium as temporary home for Beckham's MLS franchise


> While the search for a permanent home for an MLS team in Miami continues, the idea of using a temporary venue is being put forward by the Miami-Dade County Commission.
> 
> The County Commission will vote Tuesday on a resolution directing Mayor Carlos Gimenez or someone designated by him to negotiate with Florida International University for the purpose of using the school's football stadium as a temporary venue.
> 
> District 11 Commissioner Juan Zapata -- in whose district the stadium lies -- co-sponsored the resolution along with Commissioner Barbara Jordan of District 1, Commissioner Jean Monestime of District 2, and Commissioner Jose "Pepe" Diaz of District 12. The resolution, if passed, would give Mayor Gimenez or his designate 90 days to negotiate a deal with FIU.


FIU Stadium:


----------



## joezierer

GunnerJacket said:


> I was commenting on the use of "finally," as if to suggest the community had been trying and searching for a soccer stadium all this time. No American community has been actively searching for something like that, on a serious scale at least, until they become a candidate for MLS. Which for Indiana is all of one year or not even yet.
> 
> If they land that stadium, though, more power to 'em.


That ain't true. There's a women's (I admit, who gives a shit about women's ball) club that's been trying to put together a stadium for years. They even tried to buy the old Victory Field before it was turned into apartments.


----------



## Lakeland

https://twitter.com/SJEarthquakes/status/561357574214131712


----------



## Lumbergo

Lakeland said:


> Miami-Dade County eyes FIU stadium as temporary home for Beckham's MLS franchise
> 
> 
> FIU Stadium:


GOOD!

The team should begin playing and gain local support before getting a brand new state of the art stadium!


----------



## Matze20111984

Lakeland said:


> https://twitter.com/SJEarthquakes/status/561357574214131712


The pitch does not look good!


----------



## Guest

Matze20111984 said:


> The pitch does not look good!


You're kidding, right? That how most pitches look when they're still settling down.


----------



## WesTexas

It's freshly laid grass.


----------



## Guest

Lumbergo said:


> GOOD!
> 
> The team should begin playing and gain local support before getting a brand new state of the art stadium!


They wont be playing anywhere without a new stadium, unless you mean starting out in USL or NASL. 

Reports over the last few days mention 4-5 sites they are looking at. Still hope for this to turn out favorably.


----------



## Lumbergo

double post


----------



## Lumbergo

5portsF4n said:


> They wont be playing anywhere without a new stadium, unless you mean starting out in USL or NASL.
> 
> Reports over the last few days mention 4-5 sites they are looking at. Still hope for this to turn out favorably.


but it's okay for NYCFC to play in a temporary home (with no SSS in the immediate future) because reasons.


and to be honest - why couldn't they play in the USL or NASL? 

Ft Lauderdale, Tampa, and Jacksonville are all in the NASL. would be a nice rivalry - even if there was a stipulation such that "Miami will play in the NASL until such time that a downtown stadium can be built - at that point they will be admitted into the MLS." at least this way there would actually be a team (and all the staff and equipment that goes with one) AND a fan base as well - instead of this absurd assumption that a team will just appear out of thin air and people will automatically latch onto it once a stadium gets built.

it sounds crazy, I know. :nuts:


----------



## BoulderGrad

Lumbergo said:


> but it's okay for NYCFC to play in a temporary home (with no SSS in the immediate future) because reasons.


Yeah.... Rea$on$....

Everyone keeps acting like that's a bad thing and I don't really think it is... 

The whole idea of getting every team in their own SSS was to have greater control over their own revenue and to have more appropriate facilities. 

In the early days when MLS was just a small upstart league, teams didn't have much sway and were being bled dry by renting stadiums that were not their own (and thus limited what revenue they could generate) and completely inappropriate in terms of facilities and capacity. A double whamy since empty stadiums hurt the gameday experience for fans, further straining revenue streams.

Teams quickly threw up smaller facilities for which they were the sole tenant and operators which allowed what little money did come in to go directly to their pocket books and stabilized the business side a bit. 

A few years later and: enter David Beckham, The Seattle Sounders, Portland Timbers, Kansas City reborn, etc and all of the sudden the league actually started to have some say in the sports world (at home and abroad). Now no NFL stadium can be built without having the ability to house a regulation FIFA pitch, An MLS team's dedicated stadium has ventured out of the "Soccer stadiums of the US and Canada" thread to have its own thread on SSC, and some very wealthy people are making some very large investments in the league.

So why does that excuse NYCFC? Well, because of those very rich guys throwing their money in the league hat. Yeah, Yankee stadium is not exactly the best venue for them in the long run. BUT playing there for a few seasons is not going to bankrupt them like the Columbus crew playing at a 100,000 seat, astro turf, far too narrow Ohio stadium would, or KC Wizards playing in a small awkward field dimensioned, bare bones minor league baseball stadium would. They're in the largest media market in the country, the team that owns their temp facility owns them as well (and thus has an incentive for them to make a little money), the temp stadium itself is brand new and the team might just be popular enough to fill most of it, and the location ticks off all the boxes for attracting their desired fan base. They might even make a fair bit of coin while playing there. I think that all excuses them from having a SSS plan in place when they started play.

So why is Miami being held to a higher standard? Well, to start...two words: Miami... Fusion... Maybe its not a fair comparison, but having a dead franchise on your credit report isn't great for turning a blind eye to other issues. Second, while there is a very rich guy and his friends trying to get the team started, none of them has a controlling stake in a facility the team could use long term. If it was the owner of the Dolphins looking for a tenant for his newly renovated SunLife Stadium, we might be having a different conversation (see Atlanta and Minneapolis). But there's no arrangement that can be made that would make MLS feel comfortable the team would have control over ALL the money coming in. And lastly, Miami is not New York. Yes, its a top 15 market in the US, but really only top 3 gets you special treatment. As much as some cities want to pretend they're as important as New York, they're the 800lb gorilla in any conversation about the sports world. When they say jump, every league asks "how high?"


----------



## slipperydog

congrats everyone! here's to 100 more! :cheers1:


----------



## Guest

Lumbergo said:


> and to be honest - why couldn't they play in the USL or NASL?
> 
> it sounds crazy, I know. :nuts:


BoulderGrad sums things up nicely. 

MLS doesn't seem to care about Miami one way or another. It would be a nice addition in the right circumstances, which is what they are hoping for, but they can take it or leave it. With Sacramento and Minneapolis looking good, they can wait on Miami for a long time. The expansion quota is nicely filled out between now and 2020, even without Miami. 

The question about Miami in USL Pro or NASL is something that needs to be directed at Beckham and Claure. My guess is that neither of them want to pursue such a course of action. 

To answer your question, MLS has double standards *because they can*.


----------



## Guest

*Orlando aiming to sell out the Citrus Bowl for opening game*



> ORLANDO – *Orlando City are aiming to arrive in MLS in headline-grabbing style with an opening-day attendance of 65,000 when they kick off* their inaugural season at home to fellow newcomers New York City FC on March 8 (5 pm ET, ESPN2, ESPN Deportes).
> 
> Under the hashtag banner #FillTheBowl, the Lions on Thursday launched an ambitious plan to sell out the newly-remodeled Citrus Bowl, which will be their temporary home in 2015 while their purpose-built soccer stadium is under construction.
> 
> *And team president Phil Rawlins revealed they are already more than a third of the way to their target – even before single-game tickets go on sale this Saturday.*
> 
> The league’s highest opening-day crowd was 69,255 at the Rose Bowl in Pasadena for the debut season opener between Los Angeles Galaxy and NY/NJ MetroStars in April 1996, but Orlando firmly believes it can come a close second to that number.
> 
> *“With season ticket sales, private sales to season-ticket holders and group events, we have already gone past 23,000 in sales for the opening game,"* Rawlins explained, "and there’s no doubt in my mind we will fill the bowl for this big day.”
> 
> The bullish campaign was unveiled Thursday at the Citrus Bowl in front of a distinguished panel of league and city dignitaries, including city Mayor Buddy Dyer, county Mayor Teresa Jacobs, star player Kaka and MLS Commissioner Don Garber, who admitted he would not be surprised if the Lions achieve their lofty aim.
> 
> “Orlando has exceeded our expectations all the way down the line already, and this is a club that is punching way above its weight," Garber said. "I think this will show fans throughout the world what the city of Orlando is capable of and support the continued rise of Soccer Nation in our country.”
> 
> *OCSC has sold just more than 11,000 season tickets to date and will cap season sales at 14,000 to enable them to transfer all ticket-holders to the new 20,000-seat stadium in 2016. Regular games at the Citrus Bowl will also be capped at around 20,000, but the historic opener will be subject to a massive promotional effort.*
> 
> “When we get here on opening night in front of 60,000-plus fans, we aim to do everyone proud," Orlando City head coach Adrian Heath said. "We’re well aware of the history-making nature of this game, and it’s a great focus not just for us but for MLS in general.”


http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...aw-65000-fans-inaugural-mls-match-citrus-bowl

It would be embarrassing if they didn't. First game, Kaka, Villa, etc. Should be a given.


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> *Orlando aiming to sell out the Citrus Bowl for opening game*
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...aw-65000-fans-inaugural-mls-match-citrus-bowl
> 
> It would be embarrassing if they didn't. First game, Kaka, Villa, etc. Should be a given.


I wouldn't say that. In fact I wish they weren't making this announcement just to avoid undue backlash should they fall short. Really, are we going to bash the newbie if they "only" get 48k for the opener and then average 20k the rest of the season? MLS has made great strides but lets not push the goal posts too far. Glass half full and all that.


----------



## Guest

GunnerJacket said:


> I wouldn't say that. In fact I wish they weren't making this announcement just to avoid undue backlash should they fall short. Really, are we going to bash the newbie if they "only" get 48k for the opener and then average 20k the rest of the season? MLS has made great strides but lets not push the goal posts too far. Glass half full and all that.


If they get 48k and receive a torrent of abuse for it, that would be unfair. That's not to say the figure wouldn't be disappointing. The use of the word embarrassment was unnecessary on my part. 

They have a month to sell another 40,000 tickets. I think they'll do it, but Im guessing it'll be a slow build up until the final few days.


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> If they get 48k and receive a torrent of abuse for it, that would be unfair. That's not to say the figure wouldn't be disappointing. The use of the word embarrassment was unnecessary on my part.
> 
> They have a month to sell another 40,000 tickets. I think they'll do it, but Im guessing it'll be a slow build up until the final few days.


I think there's a good chance they pull it off, but I think it also builds the pressure on the team to sustain a decent average throughout the year. If they draw 65k for the novelty of the MLS debut but then drop off to, say, 17k once the team struggles through the season would that diminish any of the shine? (Don't know, just asking.) So for me I'm all about the seasonal average leading up to their move next season. Sustain something that will translate into sell-outs @ 18k next year and I'll be thrilled for them and the league. 



slipperydog said:


> congrats everyone! here's to 100 more! :cheers1:


Indeed. Years ago who would've guessed we could fill 600 pages gabbing about US soccer stadiums?! "You've come a long way, baby!"


Lumbergo said:


> but it's okay for NYCFC to play in a temporary home (with no SSS in the immediate future) because reasons.


To build on to the comments already given, let's be clear - No one is happy with the team playing at Yankee stadium, not even the team and the Yankees. Everyone knows it's a hackneyed reaction to their failure to secure a better option beforehand and that if it drags on beyond the 3rd year then it will adversely impact support. So for now everyone* is biting their tongue on the faith that the money behind City Football Group will eventually come good on their promise of a proper venue. 


_*= Everyone save those of us who wish CFG nothing but abject failure and wish they would sell the team, but that's another thread. _:cheers:


----------



## Lumbergo

*An interesting read regarding the Fort Lauderdale Strikers, Lockhart Stadium, and why the new owners decided to invest in the NASL rather than the MLS.*

http://www.bizjournals.com/southflo...-local-investment-in-the-worlds.html?page=all



> Three Brazilian partners – Rafael Bertani, Paulo Cesso, and I [Ricardo Geromel] - bought the only professional soccer team in South Florida, The Fort Lauderdale Strikers, where Gordon Banks, George Best, Gerd Muller, Ray Hudson, Elias Figueroa, Nene Cubillas, and other soccer legends played. Soccer legend Ronaldo, three times FIFA player of the year, is also an owner.
> 
> .................
> 
> I met every single owner of NASL franchises at least twice and tried to pick their brains about whether we should purchase a team in the MLS or the NASL. My conclusion was that I think it's a bad decision to pay the MLS an absurd fee for the franchise alone, plus the operational costs of running a team and building my own stadium. While in the NASL I could pay a fraction of that expansion fee and invest the other millions in my own asset. Compare where the NASL was two years ago to where it is today. Do your due diligence about every single owner of this league. Now imagine where the NASL will be in three or five years. This league is not inferior to the MLS; it is just younger."
> 
> .................
> 
> From the top 25 largest cities in the US, nine do not have a professional soccer team. As investors recognize this demand, they will face the same dilemma we did—NASL or MLS. And if they look at the potential return on investment vs. risk, many will come to the same conclusion we did and invest in the NASL. The American public is not loyal to the MLS or the NASL; they care about quality soccer. NASL teams play against MLS teams in the U.S. Open Cup. When NASL teams start beating MLS teams frequently, like it happened last weekend in a friendly in Jacksonville, where the NASL side won 3x1 against a MLS side, fans will demolish the idea of first and second division.
> 
> Here are two other key reasons that we preferred the NASL to the MLS:
> 
> • Decentralized ownership. As opposed to the single-entity structure used in MLS, ownership groups in the NASL control everything when it comes to running the team. Owners can sign the players they want, spend what they want, and run their teams the way they want. The league office is there to oversee it, handle day-to-day operations, and offer recommendations and help to teams when necessary.
> 
> • Good profit opportunity. In many cases, investing in sports in the U.S. ends up being a hobby with little to no return on investment. In the NASL, the amount of money you invest isn't so drastic that it's nearly impossible to get back. Many teams in the league operate on a very reasonable annual budget, making it less difficult to get a return on investment.
> 
> After deciding that the NASL was the way to go, we had to either start a team from scratch or buy an existing brand. From day one, the Strikers were our first option. We were very fortunate that the previous owner already owned another team in the league and only wanted to keep one. The history and legacy that we inherited with the Strikers are priceless.
> 
> Our natural first step is to build a modern stadium. Lockhart Stadium has such a strong history that our first option is to play at that location after we modernize it. However, if it is too hard to secure that location, we will certainly head elsewhere.
> 
> We are working on many fronts to turn the Strikers back into a household name. One of the initiatives that we're most excited about is our partnerships with Broward College which will allow us to host startups related to athletic performance, venue experience, stadium sustainability, and media/broadcasting. Those startups will have the opportunity to pilot their ideas on our stadium, players, and fans. We are also looking to partner with innovative institutions such as Uncharted Play as part of our commitment to innovation and entrepreneurship. If you are interested in partnering with us, please don't hesitate to reach out!
> 
> _Ricardo Geromel is an owner of the Fort Lauderdale Strikers. Former Strikers players include George Best, Gerd Muller, Gordon Banks, Elias Figueroa, Nene Cubillas, Ray Hudson and other soccer legends. Geromel was a reporter for Forbes magazine, where he wrote a cover story featuring an interview with Dilma Rousseff, Brazil's president. The globetrotter has worked in five continents in different sectors: as agricultural commodities trader for Noble Group, Asia's largest diversified commodities trading company, in Hong Kong, Switzerland, Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay, and Uruguay. Ricardo also worked as project manager in Guinea Conakry for Bolloré Group, a French conglomerate that operates the most extensive integrated logistics network in Africa. Ricardo has also worked in the soccer industry in Beijing, China. Geromel has been writing for Forbes since July 2011. Fluent in five languages, Geromel holds a a Masters in Management from ESCP Europe, Paris, and a bachelor's degree in business management from Fairleigh Dickinson University, New Jersey. Geromel lives in Fort Lauderdale with his wife Madison Stanford. Find him on Twitter @ricardogerome_l


----------



## GunnerJacket

Lumbergo said:


> *An interesting read regarding the Fort Lauderdale Strikers, Lockhart Stadium, and why the new owners decided to invest in the NASL rather than the MLS.*
> 
> http://www.bizjournals.com/southflo...-local-investment-in-the-worlds.html?page=all


Some flaws in his thinking, IMO:

- FIFA frowns on multiple leagues of DI status within a nation, in part because that makes it harder for them to wield influence. Lower levels are something different since those teams don't usually partake in international cups. Yes NASL has been permitted in CONCACAF events but those are still conditional approvals.

- NASL has freedom versus MLS but it also lacks the resources and exposure. MLS gets the TV contracts and brand appeal because...

- ...American fans are finicky and prefer to support top tier teams. They like a defined "best" league for which to direct their attention. Right now that's MLS and there's little to suggest the league will give up that status or that fans will gladly shift preferences. And this isn't like generations ago when the absence of TV money allowed competing football or basketball leagues to become viable competitors to the top tiers of the time.


----------



## mattec

If the NASL continues to grow, and the stadiums and talent improve, I could see a merger like NFL/AFL or AL/NL. If the league grows unevenly, I could see a merger more like the NBA/ABA, where only some teams were taken.


----------



## GunnerJacket

If MLS "takes" Minnesota then it's highly possible NASL could be down to 10 teams in 2017, as the outlook for the OKC and VA franchises appear doubtful. This would not only hurt the business model but risks their DII status.

They've some good owners who want to support soccer in the US, and I agree the USL model is imperfect, but the NASL failed to deliver a death blow when it broke away and now they're on the ropes themselves. If they manage good finances this year, can bolster their media monies and secure more franchises for the future then hope remains. I'm still not levying money on the league surviving past 2018, though.


----------



## tinyslam

GunnerJacket said:


> If MLS "takes" Minnesota then it's highly possible NASL could be down to 10 teams in 2017, as the outlook for the OKC and VA franchises appear doubtful. This would not only hurt the business model but risks their DII status.
> 
> They've some good owners who want to support soccer in the US, and I agree the USL model is imperfect, but the NASL failed to deliver a death blow when it broke away and now they're on the ropes themselves. If they manage good finances this year, can bolster their media monies and secure more franchises for the future then hope remains. I'm still not levying money on the league surviving past 2018, though.


What about the Silverbacks? Do you think they will still exist post '17? That could take the number of teams down to 9 unless they moved to another city.


----------



## GunnerJacket

tinyslam said:


> What about the Silverbacks? Do you think they will still exist post '17? That could take the number of teams down to 9 unless they moved to another city.


Their absence were included in my calculations, actually, and, no, I don't suspect the Silverbacks will be around, At least, they won't be in ATL. The league assumed ownership and operations of the team for this season, simply to keep the membership of the league up, while they shop for potential investors looking to relocate the franchise. (Press suggests owners from the Harrisonburg USL team have investigated Nashville as recently as this week.) Bottom line here, no one expects Atlanta will have two teams, and we know the MLS side begins playing in 2017. 

NASL seems close to landing a team in SoCal, and I don't doubt owners are pressing their Minnesota United peers to forego MLS. Swing those two and relocate Atlanta and they'll be up to 12 members. And while their original concept of a separate Canadian League was folly they're actively speaking with two other owners/cities that might well bear fruit. I'd wager a lot hinges on how they look poised as a league after this year financially and pending MLS expansion news.

What's lost amidst the hoopla from us fans about a graceful order to soccer in the US/Canada is that both USL and NASL have actually fared pretty well of late considering their lack of any notable TV revenue. Last year saw the largest total attendance for "minor league" soccer in the states, and teams in both leagues are working hard to build academies and youth leagues as well as their community relations. Support for the 'Backs has grown stronger because of the anticipation for MLS, so even with this league vs league soap opera the sport is growing in the states.


----------



## ielag

I could eventually see Atlanta MLS also owning an Atlanta based USL side. The fan support seems to be there to support a USL team in the same city such as Seattle, Portland, and Salt Lake to have it be a viable business. Plus, it's just better from a player development standpoint to own your own USL team.


----------



## master_klon

eric the midget said:


> Cincinnati needs to get some sort of team.


Cincinnati Saints (NPSL) 

The full map of soccer teams: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=z0Ihtm27cf6Y.k1x0-hWqbsAQ


----------



## alexandru.mircea

I caught a glimpse of the recent match between NYCFC and St Mirren, the Scottish side. Anyone know what stadium was it where they played? Cheers


----------



## ielag

alexandru.mircea said:


> I caught a glimpse of the recent match between NYCFC and St Mirren, the Scottish side. Anyone know what stadium was it where they played? Cheers


It's part of the Manchester City complex, their U21's, U18's, etc. play there.


----------



## JJG

Scba said:


> Pro sports aren't the specialty in AL, AR, MS, LA...


I think you quoted the wrong poster, but you're right... except for LA (New Orleans).


----------



## master_klon

This offseason the team that has impressed me the most is the Tampa Bay Rowdies. 

Bill Edwards became the majority owner of the Rowdies in December 2013 and I think he has a great vision for the team and is completely turning this club around. In October 2014, the St Petersburg city council finally allowed him to take control of Al Lang Field for the next four years in return for a $1.5million upgrade to the stadium.
He has gone over and above that and at the moment has spent over $2million out of his pocket on the upgrade. Among many other changes, the team finally have their own training ground (10 min walk away from stadium) after reaching a deal with USF St Petersburg for the use of the university's soccer training pitch, in return for converting it to meet professional standards. And in response to fans' concern in recent years over the availability of parking near the stadium, last week he has bought a nearby carpark (3 min walk from the stadium) which will be exclusively available to Rowdies fans on matchdays. The restaurant on the ground floor of the carpark will be converted to a Rowdies sports bar.

Here's a photo tour of the stadium as it looks today: http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay...ke-a-tour-of-the-al-lang-stadium.html?ana=twt


----------



## Moebius90

MLS should compete in Copa Libertadores.

USL and NASL, should be the leagues for relegation.

USA should adapt to what football is, not vice versa. Otherwise you'll end created your own sport with your particular rules (like american "football" = rugby) and being football a worldwide sport, in which USA must fit, I suppose that's not the idea.


----------



## JJG

Moebius90 said:


> USA should adapt to what football is, not vice versa. Otherwise you'll end created your own sport with your particular rules *(like american "football" = rugby) *and being football a worldwide sport, in which USA must fit, I suppose that's not the idea.


Unnecessary, dude. Unnecessary...


----------



## endrity

Moebius90 said:


> MLS should compete in Copa Libertadores.
> 
> USL and NASL, should be the leagues for relegation.
> 
> USA should adapt to what football is, not vice versa. Otherwise you'll end created your own sport with your particular rules (like american "football" = rugby) and being football a worldwide sport, in which USA must fit, I suppose that's not the idea.


While I agree with the whole "need to adapt" part, you also have to understand that the Libertadores teams are quite a bit far away. A Seattle/NY to Rio or Buenos Aires will be in the 6-7 hours range. European team barely travel half of that if they have to go play some team at in Russia, but most of the travel is 1-2 hours.


----------



## Lumbergo

master_klon said:


> This offseason the team that has impressed me the most is the Tampa Bay Rowdies. Bill Edwards became the majority owner of the Rowdies in December 2013 and I think he has a great vision for the team and is completely turning this club around. In October 2014, the St Petersburg city council finally allowed him to take control of Al Lang Field for the next four years in return for a $1.5million upgrade to the stadium. He has gone over and above that and at the moment has spent over $2million out of his pocket on the upgrade. Among many other changes, the team finally have their own training ground (10 min walk away from stadium) after reaching a deal with USF St Petersburg for the use of the university's soccer training pitch, in return for converting it to meet professional standards. And in response to fans' concern in recent years over the availability of parking near the stadium, last week he has bought a nearby carpark (3 min walk from the stadium) which will be exclusively available to Rowdies fans on matchdays. The restaurant on the ground floor of the carpark will be converted to a Rowdies sports bar. Here's a photo tour of the stadium as it looks today: http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/slideshow/2015/02/13/exclusive-take-a-tour-of-the-al-lang-stadium.html?ana=twt


You beat me to it - was actually going to post this today. I agree with everything you said about Bill Edwards and the Rowdies - other NASL teams need to take note and follow his lead. Tampa also has one of the better attendances and dedicated fan base in NASL right now - if they are able to expand Al Lang I could see their attendance go up as well. Owners like him are what give me hope that the NASL is a sustainable league - it just needs more investment.


----------



## Moebius90

endrity said:


> While I agree with the whole "need to adapt" part, you also have to understand that the Libertadores teams are quite a bit far away. A Seattle/NY to Rio or Buenos Aires will be in the 6-7 hours range. European team barely travel half of that if they have to go play some team at in Russia, but most of the travel is 1-2 hours.


yeah that's true, and it's something we discuss in southamerica, the distance is a big trouble also for the copa america and world cup qualifying issue.
Still, MLS should win a Concacaf CL dominated by mexicans first. And then try in South America.

I say all this, because i'm not against of the integration of all the Americas in international tournaments, as many fellows here (south america) are.


----------



## nicko_viteh

endrity said:


> While I agree with the whole "need to adapt" part, you also have to understand that the Libertadores teams are quite a bit far away. A Seattle/NY to Rio or Buenos Aires will be in the 6-7 hours range. European team barely travel half of that if they have to go play some team at in Russia, but most of the travel is 1-2 hours.


Actually, the distance between Buenos Aires and New York is 8,500 km (or 5,200 miles), which takes at least 10 hours of flight (source).

It gets worst if we take into account that BA and NY are really well connected (there's direct flights between them, and with a lot of cities as well), but in Copa Libertadores there's a lot of teams from cities in _middle of nowhere_, or at least with fewer connections through the air. By example, what about a match between Sounders at Asunción, in Paraguay? The same webpage says that at least 16 hours are needed to make that trip, with 2 plane changes. In games like this, we must expect a little support for the away team.

Not to mention that it's not quite simple to enter the USA...

BTW, I support the idea of a Panamerican confederation, and I would love to Boca Juniors hosting a MLS team in la Bombonera.


----------



## Guest

mattec said:


> If the NASL continues to grow, and the stadiums and talent improve, I could see a merger like NFL/AFL or AL/NL. If the league grows unevenly, I could see a merger more like the NBA/ABA, where only some teams were taken.


I don't mean to rain on your parade, but MLS is so far ahead of NASL that what you're proposing is completely ridiculous. 

The leagues _have_ grown unevenly, and only MLS is taken seriously. MLS has already picked off franchises from both NASL (Montreal) and USL (Orlando City and soon likely to be Sacramento Republic). 



Moebius90 said:


> I say all this, because i'm not against of the integration of all the Americas in international tournaments, as many fellows here (south america) are.


The likeliest outcome at international level is that Copa America will become a permanent pan-American competition, but World Cup qualifying will be kept apart as part of the existing structure. And I really think that's the best outcome for all parties.


----------



## Guest

*San Antonio USA-Mexico friendly in April is sold out *

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...ril-friendly-vs-mexico-san-antonio-officially



> If you haven't yet bought a ticket for the US national team's friendly in April against Mexico in San Antonio, you're officially out of luck.
> 
> U.S. Soccer president Sunil Gulati confirmed reports that the game was sold out with a tweet on Saturday: *"We are thrilled that #USAvMEX on April 15 is officially sold out. The 65,000 fans will set an attendance record for soccer in San Antonio."*
> 
> The previous record for soccer attendance in the Texas city was 54,313, set in Jan. 2014 for a friendly between Mexico and South Korea that El Tri won 4-0.
> 
> The US and Mexico will renew their rivalry on the men's senior level with the April friendly. In their last meeting, the two countries played to a 2-2 draw in Glendale, Ariz. That game was played in front of a crowd of just over 59,000 fans last April.


----------



## bd popeye

derzberb said:


> didn't i read in this thread that in california Stadiums with a Roof are not allowed (because of earthquakes or something else)?


I think that if earthquake construction standards are met a roof on a stadium is permitted.

I think Will101 would have a better answer.


----------



## pesto

derzberb said:


> didn't i read in this thread that in california Stadiums with a Roof are not allowed (because of earthquakes or something else)?


That is not accurate; they are definitely permitted. But they are unnecessary because of the weather. Same for football and baseball stadiums.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Lumbergo said:


> I don't really see what the issue is.
> 
> they've already capped season tickets in preparation for the move - why have a cap for the rest? let's say they drew 30K each game for the rest of the season - wouldn't that just drive up demand for when they do make the move to a smaller stadium?


In hindsight we can see they're capable of sustaining larger crowds but at the time it was surely wise to hedge their bets. For all Orlando's wonderful surge there wasn't any evidence to confirm they'd average more than the league as a whole. So, just as the league as a whole has learned, it's better to ensure a packed house at 20k than to display 25k sparsely distributed around a larger venue. After all, in this setting the club can always come back and offer more tickets. 

With one caveat: When opening up portions of the stadium you don't just pick arbitrary numbers of seats but rather blocks that coincide with tiers and areas that can be conveniently closed/opened. You don't want to have people roaming about in unattended areas and you don't want to have to pay more staff than needed to work the facility. I'm not sure what the next most convenient cut-off level is for the Citrus Bowl but if it's something higher than desired or consists of only more premium seating then that might help explain why they picked the capacity they did.



derzberb said:


> didn't i read in this thread that in california Stadiums with a Roof are not allowed (because of earthquakes or something else)?


If you did I'm guessing it was said/typed tongue-in-cheek. Building codes are almost universal in their application and there'd be nothing to single out roofs over stadiums in this sense. If you can make the spans for bridges, skyscrapers or large indoor arenas you can certainly design forms suitable for overhanging roofs capable of withstanding earthquake conditions as required by code.


----------



## will101

bd popeye said:


> I think that if earthquake construction standards are met a roof on a stadium is permitted.
> 
> I think Will101 would have a better answer.


No, your answer is pretty much spot on. We usually don't build roofs because of the cost, and our climate is very similar to either Portugal or Morocco.


----------



## Guest

http://www.sltrib.com/sports/2245495-155/real-salt-lake-west-valley-begin

*Real Salt Lake, West Valley begin Monarchs stadium talks*.... Monarchs are their B team in USL












> West Valley City • Dell Loy Hansen considers himself a hard-nosed businessman, and a tough sell when proposals come his way.
> 
> But West Valley City officials were well prepared when conversations with the Real Salt Lake owner about putting a potential minor league soccer stadium there began less than a week ago.
> 
> "I've never been hunted, caged and sold so quickly in my entire life," Hansen said.
> 
> RSL and the city officials announced Tuesday they have entered into an agreement to begin negotiations for a new 8,000-seat stadium that would be located in West Valley City's entertainment distirct.
> 
> Hansen and city officials have signed a letter of intent and and commenced an exclusive 60-day negotiating window to finalize a deal for the stadium, which would become home to the Real Monarchs, RSL's US Pro league affiliate.
> 
> Hansen, who offered to fully fund the proposed stadium at the Utah State Fairpark before pulling back the offer last week, said he is offfering to lease the land from West Valley City in the current discussions. The RSL owner is seeking a 40-year lease with two potential five-year extensions on top of it. Hansen said he has committed not to seek any municipal funds through bonding.
> 
> "We're looking at using our own credit and our own cash largely for the project," he added.
> 
> The stadium was expected to cost between $18 and $23 million at the Fairpark. Hansen said a West Valley stadium will cost between $20 and $23 million.
> 
> If the two sides reach a deal, stadium construction is expected to begin in late spring or early summer. Monarchs president Rob Zarkos said they anticipate a 12-to-13-month construction cycle that could put the club — which will play this season at Rio Tinto Stadium — in its new home in July or August of 2016.
> 
> Neither Hansen nor city officials revealed a specific site for the new stadium, but the city's entertainment district includes the Maverk Center and the Hale Theatre, as well as several restaurants and bars. The entertainment district is also near a TRAX stop.
> 
> West Valley City manager Wayne Pyle said the original plan for the entertainment district, and specifically around the Maverik Center, included rights to utilize a portion of the arena's large parking lot for further commercial development.
> 
> "We were prepared for this," Pyle said. "When an opportunity like this comes up and we see it as a match, we already know when and how we go to approach it."
> 
> In addition to the Monarchs, the proposed stadium could also host a professional women's soccer franchise, men's lacrosse, rugby and recreational weekend leagues as well as concerts and events.


----------



## bd popeye

will101 said:


> No, your answer is pretty much spot on. We usually don't build roofs because of the cost, and our climate is very similar to either Portugal or Morocco.


Thanks..I lived in San Diego from '77 to 2004...Most pleasant weather in the US.


----------



## WesTexas

The Monarchs stadium design looks better than RSLs design.


----------



## WesTexas

derzberb said:


> didn't i read in this thread that in california Stadiums with a Roof are not allowed (because of earthquakes or something else)?


by that notion, basketball arenas would be illegal.


----------



## BoulderGrad

derzberb said:


> didn't i read in this thread that in california Stadiums with a Roof are not allowed (because of earthquakes or something else)?


nnnnoooo... Anything in a seismic area simply has to meet seismic loading standards. That might make a roof structure a bit more expensive, but it wouldn't be outright banned. 

It would seem to me that ANY big building with a roof would fall under that guideline if it existed. Which is why it doesn't


----------



## carnifex2005

Crisis averted. A deal has been struck...

*MLS and players reach deal, avoid strike; Orlando City season to begin on time*


----------



## Calvin W

WesTexas said:


> by that notion, basketball arenas would be illegal.


arenas don't equal stadiums....


----------



## master_klon

Awesome that MLS and the Players Union have agreed on a new CBA. 

First game of the season on March 6: LA Galaxy v Chicago Fire.


----------



## Guest

Relief regarding the CBA. 

Orlando opening up 2,000 standing room tickets for opener.


----------



## Guest

Some images from the Montreal Pachuca game. 



















And the greatest celebration of all time. Montreal coach showing the ref what he felt about that Pachuca penalty. :lol: Ref responds with a red :cheers:


----------



## tinyslam

carnifex2005 said:


> Crisis averted. A deal has been struck...
> 
> *MLS and players reach deal, avoid strike; Orlando City season to begin on time*


:dance:

Can't wait to see the two new teams face off and then NYRB vs Sporting KC on Sunday. :banana:


----------



## Arseniq33

5portsF4n said:


> And the greatest celebration of all time. Montreal coach showing the ref what he felt about that Pachuca penalty. :lol: Ref responds with a red :cheers:


And then he walked it off like a boss, waiving and turning his shirt to the crowd. Flares and fireworks were going off, it was amazing. I was at the stadium, and I never lived anything like it. It was pure, crazy euphoria.


----------



## BlazerBlaze

The Citrus Bowl is getting all dressed up for its first Orlando City MLS match Sunday.
























The Mane Lane


----------



## carnifex2005

Arseniq33 said:


> And then he walked it off like a boss, waiving and turning his shirt to the crowd. Flares and fireworks were going off, it was amazing. I was at the stadium, and I never lived anything like it. It was pure, crazy euphoria.


Here's the webm of that moment. It was great...

https://fat.gfycat.com/DesertedLittleFlounder.webm


----------



## GunnerJacket

BlazerBlaze said:


> The Citrus Bowl is getting all dressed up for its first Orlando City MLS match Sunday.


Looks good. Hopefully at least some of those screens can be transferred to the new venue after this season. Take some good pics while you're down there, Blaze.


----------



## WesTexas

Calvin W said:


> arenas don't equal stadiums....


However, if you can't build a stadium with a roof in an earthquake zone because it might fall on people, should we be equally concerned about the 20,000+ in the Staples Center? Or Honda Center? Or the aging Oracle Arena? Those are big roofs supporting heavy scoreboards in an earthquake zone.

Also I guess no one told the asian countries not to put roofs on their stadiums. Crazy kids. They could kill someone.


----------



## Fabio1976

5portsF4n said:


> Yankee Stadium will be an interesting place this weekend.
> 
> Apparently 60% of NYCFC's 15,000 season ticket holders are *buying their first season ticket for any professional sport.* 30,000 sold for the opening game. Capacity is capped at 27,000, but 33,000 can be made available if necessary. Let's hope they can sell another 2-3,000 to sell it out.


The full capacity YS (50k) will be opened for NYCFC - NE Revolution !!!!


----------



## Guest

Fabio1976 said:


> The full capacity YS (50k) will be opened for NYCFC - NE Revolution !!!!


It seems that way. You might be annoyed if you already bought tickets to find out that cheaper ones are available. Yankee stadium seems like the kind of place for soccer where the further you are from the field, the better it is.


----------



## GunnerJacket

If I'm reading the various notes and Tweets correctly DC United has now reached agreements with all the various unions to be involved with the construction and operation of their site development. Which in essence means they can now focus on the design and actual construction process. Environmental scoping is to begin this spring and they still hope to begin construction in 2016. 

At least, so sayeth my cousin in Alexandria.


----------



## calcionova1

The BBVA Compass Stadium in Houston:










The exterior is also impressive:










Source: www.worldofstadiums.com

The MLS has some amazing stadiums, the new home of the Earthquakes also looks great.


----------



## WesTexas

I would like to see them add on to Toyota Stadium in Frisco for FC Dallas. I know the attendance still needs to improve a lot but I want our stadium to get its upgrade to look more like a soccer pitch and less like a HS football stadium.


----------



## nyrmetros

I still hate the new MLS logo..... yuck.


----------



## bd popeye

I have a question about the soccer configuration of Yankee Stadium. How will the baseball infield be dealt with? I searched but could find no specific details. Thank you!


----------



## WesTexas

they will lay turf over it. It has been done before at Wrigley, Fenway and other baseball parks.


----------



## GunnerJacket

bd popeye said:


> I have a question about the soccer configuration of Yankee Stadium. How will the baseball infield be dealt with?


Poorly.


----------



## boyerling3

WesTexas said:


> I would like to see them add on to Toyota Stadium in Frisco for FC Dallas. I know the attendance still needs to improve a lot but I want our stadium to get its upgrade to look more like a soccer pitch and less like a HS football stadium.


I'd love that as well but ticket sales need to rise and be consistent before those discussions even start. The home opener this year only had 15k. I'll be going this weekend and I'm sure I'll enjoy my first MLS match.


----------



## BlazerBlaze

Gold Cup Post-Group Stage Venues:

Quarterfinals: BB&T Stadium in Baltimore and Metlife Stadium in NJ
Semifinals: Georgia Dome in Atlanta, GA (suck it haters)
3rd Place Match: PPL Park in Chester, PA
Final : Lincoln Financial Field in Philly, PA


----------



## Dexter Morgan

> TAMPA, Fla. -- Despite some players fearing the worst and Mark Teixeira saying "It's going to suck," the Yankees' front office insists the Yankee Stadium field will be fine for NYCFC to share it with the baseball team.
> 
> "The field will be fine for both sports," Yankees president Randy Levine said by phone on Wednesday.
> 
> Teixeira, in a statement to the New York Daily News, said, "It's going to suck, but you have to deal with it. It's going to tear up the infield, but there's nothing we can do about it, so we'll deal with it."



Continue reading: http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-...-be-fine-for-nycfc-and-yankees-says-president


----------



## Dexter Morgan

Despite what Randy Levine thinks (haha), this well end poorly for NYCFC if it does become a problem, you do not want the biggest fan base in the city to be pissed off and resent you, that can't be good for a franchise that's trying to put their stamp on the city.


----------



## brewerfan386

> Source: McGuire group has MLS backing for expansion team
> 
> Dennis Brackin | Star Tribune | March 12, 2015 - 1:00 PM
> 
> The prospective ownership group headed by Bill McGuire has received a letter from Major League Soccer notifying them that they are the preferred group for a potential Minnesota franchise, according to a person with knowledge of the letter.
> 
> McGuire has been competing with the Wilf family, owners of the Vikings, for a MLS expansion team that is likely to begin play in 2018. McGuire’s group includes the Pohlad family, owners of the Twins, and Timberwolves owner Glen Taylor.
> 
> McGuire, the former CEO of UnitedHealth Group who owns Minnesota United FC, a professional team in the lesser North American Soccer League, has plans to build an outdoor stadium behind Target Field in an area currently used to house the Farmer’s Market. The Wilfs’ MLS bid was based on playing in the new $1 billion football stadium set to open in 2017.
> 
> MLS spokesman Dan Courtemanche said Thursday morning the league would not confirm the existence of a letter of support for McGuire, saying it did not comment on “private conversations.”
> 
> However Courtemanche said an MLS announcement on adding a 24th team is expected soon. “We remain on track to announce the next MLS expansion market in the next 30-45 days,” he said in an email.
> 
> Minnesota and Sacramento are the two cities in the running for that bid. Miami, which is owned by former star David Beckham, still hasn’t secured a stadium, potentially leaving Minnesota, Sacramento and Miami for two remaining franchises.
> 
> Minnesota is considered the front-runner for a franchise because MLS Commissioner Don Garber has said he wants a Midwestern city to balance the league, and has praised the Twin Cities demographics.
> 
> McGuire will need to fulfill several obligations spelled out in the letter, the most important being securing a solid stadium plan, according to the person with knowledge of the letter. The group of McGuire, the Pohlad family and Taylor, who also owns the Star Tribune, has an option on land in the Farmer’s Market area that would be a potential home for an outdoor stadium, the person said.


http://www.startribune.com/sports/296080511.html

Good, I hope they get the final nod. Seeing new a MLS team in a 1/8 full ZygiDome would be a huge step backwards for the league.


----------



## 3tmk

Good news for Manchester Chivas.
Half the city already hates them for being a cheap bland copy of a foreign team, now the other half will hate them for messing with their baseball.
And the few traitors that bought tickets (because the rumor in the street says that at least 10k tickets were actually given away just to shore up the numbers and not be humiliated by the other startup team's debut in Orlando) will be disappointed in the bad sightlines at the YS, while the players will complain about the poor field once they get injured tripping over the turf.

The sooner that shameful team dies the better so that we may restart with a REAL New York team, not a foreign team's franchise dressed in matching outfits.


----------



## master_klon

The pitch for NYCFC's home opener will be fine. The pressure from the Yankees though will be a good thing and I'm sure it will motivate them to finalise a stadium site this year.


----------



## matthemod

3tmk said:


> The sooner that shameful team dies the better so that we may restart with a REAL New York team, not a foreign team's franchise dressed in matching outfits.


Oh what the New York Cosmos could have been...


----------



## GunnerJacket

brewerfan386 said:


> http://www.startribune.com/sports/296080511.html
> 
> Good, I hope they get the final nod. Seeing new a MLS team in a 1/8 full ZygiDome would be a huge step backwards for the league.


Methinks MLS is subtly doing what it can to aid the demise of NASL 2.0.



3tmk said:


> The sooner that shameful team dies the better so that we may restart with a REAL New York team, not a foreign team's franchise dressed in matching outfits.


Agreed. Heartily. 



matthemod said:


> Oh what the New York Cosmos could have been...


Agreed, again. No, I don't ascribe to the name any mythic qualities but it clearly has some brand value and, most importantly, is distinctly New York. Considering how well the Sounders, Timbers, Earthquakes and Whitecaps have been received it goes without saying the Cosmos brand had at least equal appeal and potential. More, if done right. Alas.


----------



## RedisRising

im surprised so many american projects. i thought they hated soccer


----------



## GunnerJacket

RedisRising said:


> im surprised so many american projects. i thought they hated soccer


Allow me to clarify: A generation ago the majority of Americans simply didn't like it, in large part because they're absorbed in so many other sports (baseball, basketball...) and people just viewed soccer as a foreign phenomena. Some people might have actually hated it but I'd put that down to simple narrow-mindedness and a little bit of protectionism - Such people didn't want soccer or any other sport to succeed _at the expense _of their favorite sport! 

At the same time many of us loved and played the game, we were simply a small minority. Now, however, there are enough people who watch, play and support the game that in such a large country we can still support a successful league. Plus as the internet has improved global connections we're able to share our love of the game with those outside the country. 

So now soccer is growing exponentially in the US, at rates faster than many other cherished sports. People know it's okay to love soccer and other sports, too. We won't see soccer or MLS become THE big sport in the US in my lifetime, if ever, but it will definitely become a bigger and more important part of our culture.


----------



## master_klon

will101 said:


> Most of these players will be gone before an SSS is built.


The philosophy of the club is to play attractive possession based football. Even Kreis may be gone before the new stadium is built but the philosophy will remain. I wasn't complaining about the use of Yankee Stadium, it was more of an observation that the NYCFC style does not suit their home field conditions whereas the style of Dom Kinnear is well suited to a smaller pitch.

Nice game though, I'm sure NYCFC will adjust to the conditions quickly.


----------



## eMKay

Yeah, it didn't look great on TV, cameras on the other side would be an improvement for sure, but like in Orlando the crowd was awesome. They picked two good places to expand to. They really need a SSS. In Da Bronx.


----------



## Dexter Morgan

eMKay said:


> Yeah, it didn't look great on TV, cameras on the other side would be an improvement for sure, but like in Orlando the crowd was awesome. They picked two good places to expand to. They really need a SSS. In Da Bronx.


Agree with your final point, it's too bad the location next to the old Yankee Stadium site did not come through, would of been a perfect spot for them to build a SSS. Metro North is right there and short walk from the 4 train.


----------



## BoulderGrad

will101 said:


> I was poking around through Google, trying to find some info about how many tickets the Quakes have sold for this season, when I stumbled across this article which almost defies explanation. Somebody please tell me that this is a lame joke, and that people in LA aren't this stupid. From LAG Confidential:
> There's more, but you get the idea. Was somebody just bored, or do they really subscribe to that bullshit down there?
> 
> In case you are really into that sort of thing, the link is here. And I hope that you get some help. Soon.


ppreeeetttyy sure that was being facetious. The line "totally legit looking geocities site" is the dead give away.


----------



## Guest

carnifex2005 said:


> Yeah, that pic perfectly shows why they really need to change the camera to show that side of the field instead of what they currently have.


They do? That image is very deceptive. Look at the space between the fans and the field in the image below. There is no way a camera on the other side would capture the crowd in the way you suggest.


----------



## will101

BoulderGrad said:


> ppreeeetttyy sure that was being facetious. The line "totally legit looking geocities site" is the dead give away.


I missed that. After a while, I was just skimming over things. But I honestly wondered if this was serious, because if you cut out the illuminati stuff, it sounds a lot like some local sportstalk guy I heard down there a couple of years ago.


----------



## 3tmk

A total failure for Manchester Chivas :lol:

They gave away a ton of tickets, the stadium still was half-empty, they had a horrible field, and you could hear the opponent fans. :lol:

Pathetic club.
NEW YORK HATES MANCHESTER CHIVAS


----------



## Dexter Morgan

3tmk said:


> A total failure for Manchester Chivas :lol:
> 
> They gave away a ton of tickets, the stadium still was half-empty, they had a horrible field, and you could hear the opponent fans. :lol:
> 
> Pathetic club.
> NEW YORK HATES MANCHESTER CHIVAS


What are you trolling? They stadium was absolutely not half empty. Yankee Stadium fills 49,642 for baseball, the soccer game got 43,507. That's about 88%.


----------



## Guest

Dexter Morgan said:


> What are you trolling? They stadium was absolutely not half empty. Yankee Stadium fills 49,642 for baseball, the soccer game got 43,507. That's about 88%.


If he's going to troll, at least he could make it subtle and interesting. 

I've worked out that he's a French soccer fan from his post history. And let me tell you, it is quite funny being told by a French fan that a stadium was half empty. Then again they are experts in half empty stadiums, so maybe he has a point.


----------



## Guest

Earlier this week Orlando said capacity was going to be 23,000 for the Vancouver game by filling in the corners. On Ticketmaster there are tickets available in the upper sections, so has it changed again recently?.


----------



## carnifex2005

5portsF4n said:


> They do? That image is very deceptive. Look at the space between the fans and the field in the image below. There is no way a camera on the other side would capture the crowd in the way you suggest.


Wow. Never realized how far back those fans are. I guess it wouldn't look good no matter where the camera was. I still think empty grass would look better than that blank wall of advertising.


----------



## tinyslam

carnifex2005 said:


> Wow. Never realized how far back those fans are. I guess it wouldn't look good no matter where the camera was. I still think empty grass would look better than that blank wall of advertising.


The people making money off of those advertisements would disagree with you lol.


----------



## 3tmk

Dexter Morgan said:


> What are you trolling? They stadium was absolutely not half empty. Yankee Stadium fills 49,642 for baseball, the soccer game got 43,507. That's about 88%.


That's because you are looking only at selected angles, after they basically opened the gates to fill it in.

Just in the past week I was offered free tickets on 5 different occasions (and they all called me back yesterday morning just in case I changed my mind)

Of course, feel free to believe some biased guy thousands of miles away rather than somebody who can passes the Yankee stadium on his daily commute.

Let alone the fact manchester chivas is paying the newspapers to suppress any criticisms on the team.


----------



## will101

3tmk said:


> Let alone the fact manchester chivas is paying the newspapers to suppress any criticisms on the team.


You were making good points until this came along.


----------



## tinyslam

I still don't understand why you are complaining so much 3tmk. Wouldn't handing out free tickets be a good thing.


----------



## Dexter Morgan

3tmk said:


> That's because you are looking only at selected angles, after they basically opened the gates to fill it in.
> 
> Just in the past week I was offered free tickets on 5 different occasions (and they all called me back yesterday morning just in case I changed my mind)
> 
> Of course, feel free to believe some biased guy thousands of miles away rather than somebody who can passes the Yankee stadium on his daily commute.
> 
> Let alone the fact manchester chivas is paying the newspapers to suppress any criticisms on the team.


Ummm I was at the game. Someone get this guy a tin foil hat.


----------



## willygtoc

*MLS confirms “advanced discussions” with Minnesota on expansion, will evaluate going beyond 24 teams*

Late last week, news broke in several outlets, including The Pioneer Press and SI.com, that Minnesota’s bid for a Major League Soccer expansion club had been accepted.

The league confirmed on Monday afternoon that it is in “advanced discussions” with representatives from Minnesota United FC, though the final decision is not ready to be announced.

“We are in advanced discussions with Bill McGuire and his partners in Minnesota to bring a Major League Soccer expansion club to the Twin Cities and are particularly excited about their plans for a new soccer-specific stadium that will serve as the club’s home,” MLS Commissioner Don Garber said in a statement released by the club. “We remain on track to announce the next MLS expansion market in the next 30-45 days, though no specific date for an announcement has been set.”

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...referral&utm_content=News&utm_campaign=Unpaid


----------



## tinyslam

Dexter Morgan said:


> Ummm I was at the game. Someone get this guy a tin foil hat.


Were your tickets free?! How much did City group bribe you to go to the game?! Were you given free NYCFC Merchandise to pay for your support?! lol :nuts:


----------



## Dexter Morgan

tinyslam said:


> Were your tickets free?! How much did City group bribe you to go to the game?! Were you given free NYCFC Merchandise to pay for your support?! lol :nuts:


yes, and they picked me up by limousine at my home in NJ. :lol:


----------



## carnifex2005

Alleged leak of the new Minnesota United stadium location when they get accepted into MLS. It is right beside Target Field and is perfectly situated downtown.


----------



## ielag

Carson is not a great but location but it's far from a horrible location. StubHub Center is within a couple miles of 3 major freeways. Public transit usage has increased a lot here, but let's not act like we're NYC all of a sudden. Galaxy also draw fairly well from western O.C.

Nobody will be blowing the Galaxy out of the water, especially if LAFC doesn't do much on the field. Galaxy have a local TV contract that pays them $5.5 million a year and a shirt sponsorship that pays another $4.4 million a year, will be a struggle for LAFC to match that.

The Galaxy selling out their home opener on a Friday night was very encouraging. Hopefully with better marketing and lower ticket prices this season we see higher attendance, particularly before Gerrard arrives.

And I expect the Galaxy to eventually be in the Downtown area in the next 10-20 years, SHC is just too new (and plenty of mortgage payments left) to abandon it so quickly.


----------



## Guest

ielag said:


> Nobody will be blowing the Galaxy out of the water, especially if LAFC doesn't do much on the field. Galaxy have a local TV contract that pays them $5.5 million a year and a shirt sponsorship that pays another $4.4 million a year, will be a struggle for LAFC to match that.


Yeah not so much from an on-field perspective. They will continue spending on DP's and being competitive - meant more in the LA-relevance stakes.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

ielag said:


> Carson is not a great but location but it's far from a horrible location. StubHub Center is within a couple miles of 3 major freeways. Public transit usage has increased a lot here, but let's not act like we're NYC all of a sudden. Galaxy also draw fairly well from western O.C.
> 
> Nobody will be blowing the Galaxy out of the water, especially if LAFC doesn't do much on the field. Galaxy have a local TV contract that pays them $5.5 million a year and a shirt sponsorship that pays another $4.4 million a year, will be a struggle for LAFC to match that.
> 
> The Galaxy selling out their home opener on a Friday night was very encouraging. Hopefully with better marketing and lower ticket prices this season we see higher attendance, particularly before Gerrard arrives.
> 
> And I expect the Galaxy to eventually be in the Downtown area in the next 10-20 years, SHC is just too new (and plenty of mortgage payments left) to abandon it so quickly.


Just the ingress and egress of Stubhub is enough to deter people from going to games. Its as bad as Dodger Stadium. Add in the long commute for most and im telling you, its really holding the Galaxy back. Yes, they still sell out or get close for most games, but im certain they could be drawing 35 - 40 k a game if they were in DT. 

And i say this as a big Galaxy fan that has been to multiple games, including last years championship game


----------



## pesto

Agree with all the above. LAFC has done some good strategizing re ownership and now stadium location and transit, but has a long way to go to be even as relevant as the Galaxy (who are doing pretty well but not comparable to the major sports).

Next is to make the stadium eye and news-catching. Then get Cristiano Ronaldo, who strikes me as perfect for the LA celeb scene (check out the clubs to see who he's dating this week) and 5 million Hispanics. A quality coach and a team that plays with skill and teamwork and it could be a little goldmine downtown. Might have to start borrowing the Coliseum from SC. lol.

The Galaxy have to be strategizing as well. Not impossible they consider a site DT as well. StubHub has non-soccer events and could potentially add even more.


----------



## Guest

This is the list of most "liked" athletes on Facebook. The fight for CR7, should he really come to MLS by 2018, will be an instant branding bonanza for any team that manages to secure his signature. It's not so much what he'd do in LA, as what he would do for LAFC (or Miami FC) outside the US/Canada. It would be a far bigger deal than Beckham, because CR is a straight up baller, and at 33 would have many years left to shine (Becks was a celebrity first, and a decent soccer player second). I hope it happens, but his rivalry with Messi, and his desire to play at the top level, makes me question whether he'll give up La Liga. For all we know these rumors could be a play at securing a new, bigger contract at Real. 

1	Cristiano Ronaldo	107m (soccer)
2	Lionel Messi	78m (soccer)
3 David Beckham 52m (soccer)
4	Neymar 52m (soccer)
5 Kaka 33m (soccer)
6 Ronaldinho 31m (soccer)
7 Mesut Ozil 28m (soccer)
8 Michael Jordan 28m (basketball)
9 Andres Iniesta 24m (soccer)
10 Kobe Bryant 21m (basketball)


----------



## MarkJF

5portsF4n said:


> Word. A 33 year old CR is almost _too young_ for MLS. His game, while it has relied on pace and acceleration in the past, is much more nuanced these days.
> 
> It's Miami's/LA's to lose. I don't think NY has a chance if LAG, LAFC, or Miami come calling. Being Portuguese, and living in Madrid now, I think he'd like to continue the trend of living in warmer climes.


He seems in remarkable physical shape and said he intends to play past 40! 

After several years living in Manchester, USA climate won't come into it the decision, he'll go where the money is, they always do.


----------



## Guest

MarkJF said:


> He seems in remarkable physical shape and said he intends to play past 40!
> 
> After several years living in Manchester, USA climate won't come into it the decision, he'll go where the money is, they always do.


I still think it will. More Spanish-speaking and better weather is an advantage over New York. LA and Miami would comfortably match anything New York throw at him in wages. He also retains a high degree of respect for Man Utd, so playing for Man City's sister club could be a taboo.


----------



## will101

*Earthquake Sensor Installed in New Bay Area Soccer Stadium*









USGS scientist John Hamilton installing a seismograph in the offices of the major-league soccer team San Jose Earthquakes’ new stadium. (Public domain shot courtesy of USGS)

I thought this was cool. Apologies if this gets too sciency for some. From the United States Geological Survey:


> MENLO PARK, Calif. — Where better to install a new earthquake sensor than in the new home of the San Jose Earthquakes Major League Soccer team? U.S. Geological Survey geophysicists installed a seismograph in the offices of the San Jose Earthquakes at their new Avaya Stadium this week, in order to improve the understanding of ground shaking in the Santa Clara Valley from earthquakes in the southern San Francisco Bay Area.
> 
> For several years, the USGS has been installing additional sensors to achieve a denser and more uniform spacing of seismographs in select urban areas to provide better characterization of how ground motion varies from one location to another during earthquakes. These measurements improve the ability to make rapid post-earthquake assessments of shaking and contribute to the continuing development of engineering standards for construction.
> 
> Just in time for the inaugural home opener in the new soccer stadium, the USGS NetQuakes seismograph will record not only small natural earthquakes, but is sensitive enough to record ground vibrations generated by large, noisy crowds at Avaya Stadium. The installation of this seismograph builds on a partnership between the San Jose Earthquakes and the USGS established last year with an earthquake preparedness fair at the final home game at Buckshaw Stadium on October 18, 2014, the day after the 25th anniversary of the 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake.


The entire public domain article is here. This was obviously written by some underpaid PR person, as evidenced by the misspelling of "Buck Shaw" and the reference to the "6.9" Richter scale reading (the quake was measured by USGS as 7.1, the 6.9 reading came from someplace in LA).


----------



## Guest

Cool little infographic










http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2015/03/20/avaya-stadium-becomes-15th-soccer-stadium-mls


----------



## matthemod

There are some pretty damn impressive stadiums in the MLS. What I find interesting is you can definitely see the development from just having a S.S.S that does the job and can be used to host events (F.C. Dallas and Chicago Fire), to some genuinely world class facilities like Houston Dynamo's, which wouldn't be out of place in any top European league.


----------



## lemog

BC Place is a soccer stadium?


----------



## weava

lemog said:


> BC Place is a soccer stadium?


It's a CFL stadium.


----------



## Guest

lemog said:


> BC Place is a soccer stadium?


It's ground-shared between soccer and Canadian football. The image in the infographic represents its MLS configuration.


----------



## Guest

Speaking of Canadian stadiums, Montreal beat Alajuelense 2-0 in front of over 33,000 at the Olympic stadium (short of the 38k they got against Pachuca recently, but they didn't have a long time to sell tickets). One step closer to the final after their Pachuca heroics.


----------



## BoulderGrad

lemog said:


> BC Place is a soccer stadium?


Its a stadium with a rectangular grass(ish) field big enough to hold a regulation soccer pitch. Soo.... Yes... Soccer stadium.

As are Centurylink Field in Seattle and Gillette stadium in mass (even RFK for that matter...). The only difference being their primary impetus for being built was a gridiron football team, not a soccer team.

The 'soccer specific' label always bugged me. There's lots of games played on similar sized rectangular grass fields that could also call these places home (american football, rugby, lacrosse, bindi) and many do. But more and more, everyone seems to have the attitude of 1 team, 1 stadium (just look at the tizzy everyone got into when the sounders rumors first popped up) which in the stadium business world is a colossal waste. You think an NFL stadium comes anywhere close to covering the mortgage (construction debt) hosting 10 events a year? Same goes for a 'soccer specific stadium' hosting 20. Ask bridgeview, IL how the Fire's stadium is working out for their city budget.


----------



## master_klon

BC Place in Vancouver and CenturyLinkField in Seattle were both designed with soccer in mind rather than as an afterthought, so you could argue that they both qualify as a SSS.

If I'm not mistaken, MLS will have its furtherest away game this weekend, with a distance of 4208 km (2615 miles) between Orlando City and the visiting Vancouver Whitecaps.


----------



## Calvin W

master_klon said:


> BC Place in Vancouver and CenturyLinkField in Seattle were both designed with soccer in mind rather than as an afterthought, so you could argue that they both qualify as a SSS.
> 
> If I'm not mistaken, MLS will have its furtherest away game this weekend, with a distance of 4208 km (2615 miles) between Orlando City and the visiting Vancouver Whitecaps.


When BC Place was first designed, soccer was the last thing on the architects mind. The stadium was originally designed for football, and baseball, ala the MetroDome style in Minneapolis.


----------



## master_klon

Yes, maybe I should have specified that I meant the stadium's design for its 2010-11 renovation.


----------



## Matze20111984

matthemod said:


> There are some pretty damn impressive stadiums in the MLS. What I find interesting is you can definitely see the development from just having a S.S.S that does the job and can be used to host events (F.C. Dallas and Chicago Fire), to some genuinely world class facilities like Houston Dynamo's, which wouldn't be out of place in any top European league.


Technologically these MLS stadiums are absolutely on the european level or even above (WIFI, LED Ribbon Boards,....). But for the bigger european leagues or let's say the bigger clubs in european leagues, they are just too small. (at least for Germany and England)


----------



## eMKay

Matze20111984 said:


> Technologically these MLS stadiums are absolutely on the european level or even above (WIFI, LED Ribbon Boards,....). But for the bigger european leagues or let's say the bigger clubs in european leagues, they are just too small. (at least for Germany and England)


True, but in most MLS cities there are NFL stadiums which are superior to most European stadiums in nearly every category


----------



## Lumbergo

aaronniuk said:


> I don't think you can generate genuine rivalries based on "friendlies". Teams need to be able to play each other in a competitive game with something at stake for fans to go home with a grudge and a dislike for the opposition.
> 
> Fort L. and Tampa have a rivalry as they compete in the same league but can't say the same for Orlando City. Their nearest rivals will be Atlanta and Miami.


in the end it comes down to bragging rights.

imagine if you're Tampa Bay in the NASL and you beat Orlando City. Orlando City will want to beat them the following year or whenever they play next even though the games themselves are meaningless. that's how rivalries begin. it also helps that a lot of away fans will be present at said games - which due to their proximity there will be. Atlanta is just far enough away that I would not consider them a rival but perhaps in the future that may not be the case.


----------



## Chevy114

I am from Tampa and I have only been to 1 Rowdies game. It was the first year they moved to Al Lang and it was a blast. 

The problem is two fold, I hated the drive (Big shock), it's even further away than where the Rays play and I'm about as far Northeast as you can get in Tampa (New Tampa). The other issue was it wasn't an MLS team. 

I know a lot of people feel the same way as me, but then again Soccer attracts a different kind of fan. The Hipster craft beer drinking kind of guy that lives in downtown St. Pete, so everything is lining up for them except the MLS level. I doubt they get a team since Orlando is so close and they already got the expansion. Tampa/St. Pete is also relatively new so the numbers aren't completely there yet. 

Oh and as for the parking situation they have 2 garages within walking distance at the Mahafey Center and at Bay Walk or whatever it's called these days. So parking isn't that bad.


----------



## Chevy114

Sorry double post


----------



## aaronniuk

tehlazerviking said:


> But they played each other in real games as early as last year.


Really? Last year Orlando City were in the USL and Rowdies and FT .L play in the NASL....unless they played in the Open Cup. 

Not many bragging rights from a meaningless friendly. It will take for those 4/5 teams to be in the MLS for there to be genuine rivalry. Perhaps in 20 years time when the MLS has 32 teams and promotion/relegation is possible then these teams will have a chance of playing a league match.


----------



## aaronniuk

tehlazerviking said:


> But they played each other in real games as early as last year.


Really? Last year Orlando City were in the USL and Rowdies and FT .L play in the NASL....unless they played in the Open Cup. 

Not many bragging rights from a meaningless friendly. It will take for those 4/5 teams to be in the MLS for there to be genuine rivalry. Perhaps in 20 years time when the MLS has 32 teams and promotion/relegation is possible then these teams will have a chance of playing a league match.


----------



## Chevy114

When I went to the Rowdies game they were bragging about beating a bpl team team, and I didn't even care because I knew it was just a friendly.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Archbishop said:


> We in Indy had more fans on the roof of the parking garage watching the game. Definitely the most I've seen. IUPUI should consider turning it into a beer garden and Eleven sell tickets up there.


Good for Indy! I'm always glad to see US teams luring a crowd, regardless of the level.



Chevy114 said:


> I am from Tampa and I have only been to 1 Rowdies game. It was the first year they moved to Al Lang and it was a blast.
> 
> The problem is two fold, I hated the drive (Big shock), it's even further away than where the Rays play and I'm about as far Northeast as you can get in Tampa (New Tampa). The other issue was it wasn't an MLS team.
> 
> I know a lot of people feel the same way as me, but then again Soccer attracts a different kind of fan. The Hipster craft beer drinking kind of guy that lives in downtown St. Pete, so everything is lining up for them except the MLS level.


And here's where the US waters are even murkier - The arrangement with having MLS, NASL and USL makes it difficult to discern where you sit on the US soccer pyramid and if/where that spot will be there in the future. It's one thing to root for your team but another to understand the overall aspirations available and knowing what your team's goals are. NASL is a solid D2 league but constantly talking themselves up a potential challengers to MLS as D1, even asking for a spot in the CONCACAF Champions League. Yet they might lose their D2 status and drop to D3 even as USL is building its case for moving in the opposite direction! Plus as a fan it's tough to see a 10 team league as national or big time. 



> I doubt they get a team since Orlando is so close and they already got the expansion. Tampa/St. Pete is also relatively new so the numbers aren't completely there yet.


I'm not completely closing the door just yet. MLS has been savvy of late to recognize they need not only more and larger markets but they need ones that embrace the game, the league and can offer the appeal of rivalries. Rivalries get fans excited, talking about the game for more than just gameday and build in a sense of TV appeal. MLS has grown all the more appealing by having the Cascadian Cup, the Rocky Mountain Cup, LA vs SJ, etc. Especially since these cities can't carry their rivalries through with the other major US sports this might be a great outlet! 



> Oh and as for the parking situation they have 2 garages within walking distance at the Mahafey Center and at Bay Walk or whatever it's called these days. So parking isn't that bad.


Good to know. It's certainly possible to reconfigure much of the site and sink a tight venue into the area. especially if they can extend the upper seating to reach out over the roadways. Place the bulk of concession and access areas at the ends and maybe we'll have something. Need to see if Portland's stadium would fit in this footprint.


----------



## Chevy114

GunnerJacket said:


> Good for Indy! I'm always glad to see US teams luring a crowd, regardless of the level.
> 
> And here's where the US waters are even murkier - The arrangement with having MLS, NASL and USL makes it difficult to discern where you sit on the US soccer pyramid and if/where that spot will be there in the future. It's one thing to root for your team but another to understand the overall aspirations available and knowing what your team's goals are. NASL is a solid D2 league but constantly talking themselves up a potential challengers to MLS as D1, even asking for a spot in the CONCACAF Champions League. Yet they might lose their D2 status and drop to D3 even as USL is building its case for moving in the opposite direction! Plus as a fan it's tough to see a 10 team league as national or big time.
> 
> I'm not completely closing the door just yet. MLS has been savvy of late to recognize they need not only more and larger markets but they need ones that embrace the game, the league and can offer the appeal of rivalries. Rivalries get fans excited, talking about the game for more than just gameday and build in a sense of TV appeal. MLS has grown all the more appealing by having the Cascadian Cup, the Rocky Mountain Cup, LA vs SJ, etc. Especially since these cities can't carry their rivalries through with the other major US sports this might be a great outlet!
> 
> Good to know. It's certainly possible to reconfigure much of the site and sink a tight venue into the area. especially if they can extend the upper seating to reach out over the roadways. Place the bulk of concession and access areas at the ends and maybe we'll have something. Need to see if Portland's stadium would fit in this footprint.


Good points, I see what you mean a lot of NASL teams seem to act like they don't want to be in MLS until they get in. The Tampa area has 3 minor league teams: The Rowdies of NASL in St. Pete, VSI of the USL who play in Plant City at an old spring training baseball stadium as well, and The Tampa Marauders of the National Premier Soccer League who play at a high school in downtown Tampa. 

Clearly the Rowdies are the ones you want to see, but why do the other teams exist in the area? It causes some confusion, but more importantly it allows for MLS to actually partner with one of them over NASL and then all the hard work falls apart for those teams. 

The only reason I don't see MLS giving The Bay area a team is because people will assume they should play at the Bucs stadium which they don't want anymore unless you play in a dome and cover those seats or you are either NE or Seattle. I also don't see St. Pete putting money into a stadium on a whim that they might get an MLS team and with the Rays stadium situation taking the front seat I don't see Tampa doing it either. 

Its sad that the Rowdies are doing what they do and Miami who doesn't have a proper team gets more attention because of a rumor about David Beckham.


----------



## Lumbergo

pretty sure VSI folded last year.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Chevy114 said:


> Good points, I see what you mean a lot of NASL teams seem to act like they don't want to be in MLS until they get in. The Tampa area has 3 minor league teams: The Rowdies of NASL in St. Pete, VSI of the USL who play in Plant City at an old spring training baseball stadium as well, and The Tampa Marauders of the National Premier Soccer League who play at a high school in downtown Tampa.


I didn't find anything about VSI or the Marauders on those league's web sites so that issue may have sorted itself out. But the NPSL is essentially conference play for semi-pros and player development, a model not inherently dependent or driven by attendance, so I wouldn't worry about them for the moment.



> The only reason I don't see MLS giving The Bay area a team is because people will assume they should play at the Bucs stadium which they don't want anymore unless you play in a dome and cover those seats or you are either NE or Seattle. I also don't see St. Pete putting money into a stadium on a whim that they might get an MLS team and with the Rays stadium situation taking the front seat I don't see Tampa doing it either.


Hence the requirement for a strong and wealthy owner capable of bridging the gap between the vision and the local political realities. Someone capable of financing the venue can endear themselves to public and governmental support, and that's when stadiums get built. 

If an owner knows the business model can work and demonstrates that to MLS and the politicians, you'll get a team. 



> Its sad that the Rowdies are doing what they do and Miami who doesn't have a proper team gets more attention because of a rumor about David Beckham.


While Miami's MLS brokers have bungled their handling of the stadium effort (and MLS should've simply held off on announcing them until that was resolved) Miami does have two main things that the Tampa Bay area lacks - Wealthy owners pushing the deals and a larger volume of wealthy people and businesses in the community to eventually support the team. Knowing there's a population base capable of buying premium seats and sponsorships makes an MLS team possible, and that's why many good soccer smaller communities (San Antonio, Rochester...) remain on the fringes for now, and possibly longer.


----------



## Chevy114

GunnerJacket said:


> I didn't find anything about VSI or the Marauders on those league's web sites so that issue may have sorted itself out. But the NPSL is essentially conference play for semi-pros and player development, a model not inherently dependent or driven by attendance, so I wouldn't worry about them for the moment.
> 
> Hence the requirement for a strong and wealthy owner capable of bridging the gap between the vision and the local political realities. Someone capable of financing the venue can endear themselves to public and governmental support, and that's when stadiums get built.
> 
> If an owner knows the business model can work and demonstrates that to MLS and the politicians, you'll get a team.
> 
> While Miami's MLS brokers have bungled their handling of the stadium effort (and MLS should've simply held off on announcing them until that was resolved) Miami does have two main things that the Tampa Bay area lacks - Wealthy owners pushing the deals and a larger volume of wealthy people and businesses in the community to eventually support the team. Knowing there's a population base capable of buying premium seats and sponsorships makes an MLS team possible, and that's why many good soccer smaller communities (San Antonio, Rochester...) remain on the fringes for now, and possibly longer.


Sorry about the soccer teams I got it from here when I was looking their names up, but glad it sorted itself out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_in_the_Tampa_Bay_Area

As for the smaller cities, I still don't get the MLS plan. They allow Orlando and Portland a smaller cities with only pro basketball ever, Seattle a city known for bad attendance historically in other sports, and San Jose a smaller city outside of SF and Oakland to all get teams. Then they go and add Atlanta, Minn., BC, Toronto, and Vancouver. So is it smaller cities with not much else to compete with or is it big cities with lots of money to spend? 

I think San Antonio was ready before Atlanta they have the fans and the stadium.


----------



## jbradway

Chevy114 said:


> Sorry about the soccer teams I got it from here when I was looking their names up, but glad it sorted itself out.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_in_the_Tampa_Bay_Area
> 
> As for the smaller cities, I still don't get the MLS plan. They allow Orlando and Portland a smaller cities with only pro basketball ever, Seattle a city known for bad attendance historically in other sports, and San Jose a smaller city outside of SF and Oakland to all get teams. Then they go and add Atlanta, Minn., BC, Toronto, and Vancouver. So is it smaller cities with not much else to compete with or is it big cities with lots of money to spend?
> 
> I think San Antonio was ready before Atlanta they have the fans and the stadium.


San Jose is not a small anything. It's the 10th largest city in the US.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Chevy114 said:


> As for the smaller cities, I still don't get the MLS plan. They allow Orlando and Portland a smaller cities with only pro basketball ever, Seattle a city known for bad attendance historically in other sports, and San Jose a smaller city outside of SF and Oakland to all get teams. Then they go and add Atlanta, Minn., BC, Toronto, and Vancouver. So is it smaller cities with not much else to compete with or is it big cities with lots of money to spend?


That's a fair question to ask. Here's my own attempt at an answer.

First, view MLS as an evolving product not unlike smart-phone technology. In fact most fans refer to MLS eras as 1.0, 2.0 and so on. Depending on how the pundit rates them we're now in either the 3.0 or 4.0 (or 3s!) stage. This is important to consider because MLS's philosophy on membership cities has evolved with the league. 

At the outset they picked cities that were willing and able based purely on venue and cooperation. A few owners owned multiple teams within venues they owned or leased for their NFL clubs and the league sought a happy medium between large markets and any place interested. Columbus was considered a compromise between Cleveland and Cincinnati and a chance to strike new territory.

Over time the effort to appeal to soccer moms didn't yield stronger crowds or big TV ratings, but soccer purists helped keep the league going. Eventually the league and the owners learned to diversify and respect that they couldn't rely on TV money alone to carry the day. The business model shifted and, based on the success of Columbus' Crew Stadium they saw potential in smaller venues where they could control scheduling, revenues and create more inviting atmospheres. To verify this model they went through an expansion period taking in cities that had strong local support regardless of national market rankings. Toronto, Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, and Montreal all featured supportive owners who could market their teams locally and put forth stadiums that allowed the club to control revenues. Thus, even if the TV monies remained small the clubs now had stadiums that provided a viable business model, even if the likes of Chicago and Colorado still struggled at the gate. Plus these improved stadium settings ended up yielding more attractive TV products and drawing more viewers, especially via online options or local TV. Add in random investment risks like Beckham and Henry and rub off a little support from US national team success and suddenly the league is carrying a little cachet.

With that side of the equation answered the league shifted back to securing some national TV appeal, especially now that prospective wealthy investors/owners saw that MLS could work. The league still prefers intimate soccer specific stadiums but Vancouver showed a workable solution for downsizing and the average crowd size has been growing, so now MLS merely wants to know the teams either own their venue or have lease terms that enable profitability while also not proving atmosphere killers. Atlanta's venue will feature a lowered ceiling similar to Vancouver to produce a more appropriate setting, for instance, and since Blank owns the venue there'll be no lost money from the equation. 

So basically the answer is that now that the league has achieved a modicum of financial and market stability they can afford some small markets provided those teams have wealthy owners who can manage a successful product without needing major TV monies. Particularly if that market has strong local support and contributes to the rivalries that drive the same support in other markets and add to TV appeal. Yes, MLS would prefer this happen in the largest of markets because therein lies the potential for more Seattle-like crowds and Galaxy-level sponsorships, but so long as the club can hold its own a la Orlando then MLS will consider it. 

I suspect, anyway.



> I think San Antonio was ready before Atlanta they have the fans and the stadium.


San Antonio lacks the potential corporate support of an area like, say, San Jose or Minneapolis. I liken them to a more recent, but larger and more viable, version of Rochester. The Rhinos secured a decent 13k stadium with potential for more expansion not long after Columbus built their stadium, and the premise was on taking this historically strong minor league team to MLS. They certainly had fan support at the time comparable to the USL teams in Montreal, Vancouver and Portland. But Rochester is comparably small and not poised for growth like other destinations. San Jose is part of the Bay Area that's top 6 in the country for metro population and with extremely high rates of disposable income, for instance.

Atlanta has sustained a minor league team for most of the past 20+ years and in good seasons will draw 4-5k in their humble stadiums. But most importantly Blank is a committed owner promising to invest to the fullest and the fans have responded. Now season ticket pledges are over 16k with 2 years before kickoff, plus Atlanta has a huge and burgeoning international-grade corporate market that can tap into, and feed into, sponsorships at both the local and national level.  Minneapolis is similarly poised, and that's why they're in and San Antonio is not. For now, anyway.


----------



## irving1903

GunnerJacket said:


> San Antonio lacks the potential corporate support of an area like, say, San Jose or Minneapolis. ... .


I think everyone is seriously underestimating San Antonio, it most definitely has the corporate potential, one only has to look at the Spurs success to see that.


----------



## Lumbergo

irving1903 said:


> I think everyone is seriously underestimating San Antonio, it most definitely has the corporate potential, one only has to look at the Spurs success to see that.


from wikipedia:

San Antonio

City 1,409,019 [1]
• Density 3,000.35/sq mi (1,147.3/km2)
• Metro 2,277,550 (25th)

San Antonio is home to six Fortune 500 companies: Valero Energy Corp, Tesoro Corp, USAA, Clear Channel Communications, NuStar Energy and CST Brands, Inc..[44] H-E-B, the 14th largest private company in the United States[45] is also headquartered in San Antonio. Other companies headquartered in San Antonio include: Bill Miller Bar-B-Q Enterprises, Carenet Healthcare Services, Eye Care Centers of America, Frost Bank, Harte-Hanks, Kinetic Concepts, NewTek, Rackspace, Taco Cabana and Whataburger.

Other large companies that operate regional headquarters in the city include: Nationwide Mutual Insurance Company, Kohl's, Allstate, Chase Bank, Philips, Wells Fargo, Toyota, Medtronic, Sysco, Caterpillar Inc., AT&T, West Corporation, Citigroup, Boeing, QVC, and Lockheed Martin.


-----------

yeah, not really seeing the issue here.


----------



## GunnerJacket

irving1903 said:


> I think everyone is seriously underestimating San Antonio, it most definitely has the corporate potential, one only has to look at the Spurs success to see that.


They're certainly viable but on a comparative basis you can see why other cities have an edge over them. Of current MLS hometowns only Salt Lake would have a lower GDP than San Antonio. This doesn't mean MLS won't work in San Antonio, it merely explains the potential being pursued in other markets.


----------



## Chevy114

Gunner I think I get your idea. They want a city that can support a team first but can bring the money and corporate sponsors second. I understand it's a pro sport which is a private business and wants to make as much as they can. Its sad but I understand. I was just hoping they would continue to be the defectors and go after mid sized areas that have little no pro sports like Virginia, Tennessee, Alabama, Oklahoma etc. I mean it worked with Columbus and Portland. 

I love your theory about what Columbus' stadium did for MLS reminds me of the Fenway park theory that caused MLB stadiums in the early 90s to downsize stadiums and get the same results as MLS.

San Antonio is a prime example of everything they want or what I think they should want. A mid sized market, an MLS ready stadium, and only one other pro team to compete with. I also figure if they have an NBA team they can find money, as people are saying looking how many big name companies are there. I mean they were more ready with that stadium than Orlando, but I understand MLS wanted to open a new market and expand their money.


----------



## G0ku5

fantastic photos


----------



## bd popeye

> I love your theory about what Columbus' stadium did for MLS reminds me of the Fenway park theory that caused MLB stadiums in the early 90s to downsize stadiums and get the same results as MLS.


I'm not sure about this statement as a 55 year MLB fan. I really think that Pilot Field(Coca Cola Field) in Buffalo NY led to the resurgence of the ballpark.

Coca Cola Field

Coca Cola Field...| Wiki

After Coca Field(Pilot Field) opened and attendance in the minor league ballpark boomed there was a surge in building retro ballparks.

Just my opinion.


----------



## LastLeader

Very nice photos. Very nice!


----------



## ielag

GunnerJacket said:


> Things have been pretty quiet on the DC United stadium front. Nothing major announced on their BigSoccer site and no announcements regarding the forthcoming design. Anyone spot anything that I've missed here?



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...stadium-plans-taking-shape-behind-the-scenes/


----------



## ielag

LigaMX US TV contracts are hard to get because each club negotiates with the networks individually. However, you can bet that Univision is paying a lot for Club America and Chivas Guadalajara. LigaMX is the highest rated soccer league in this country, not the EPL.


----------



## Chevy114

GunnerJacket said:


> I would agree but for the fact that all aspects of modern media news have strayed from the path of pure objectivity and now must employ a bit of sensationalism to attract viewers of their own. So long as the viewer can keep that perspective then over time things will balance out as they should, I feel.


I think that's why MLS is starting to grow after 10-15 years of being average at best, people really are starting to think for themselves. People really are going to other outlets besides ESPN to get news and watch live events.


----------



## Chevy114

ielag said:


> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...stadium-plans-taking-shape-behind-the-scenes/


Good to hear like most people on here, I forgot they even had a huge plan!


----------



## GunnerJacket

ielag said:


> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...stadium-plans-taking-shape-behind-the-scenes/


Thanks for that. This was the part I was most pleased about seeing:

_"The club will not lock into a specific seating capacity for quite some time. The working figure has been 20,000+. It could, however, end up being as high as 22,000. United has also discussed a second phase of construction in the distant future that would add another 6,000 to 8,000 seats, bringing the total to somewhere between 26,000 and 30,000. First things first, though: United just wants to begin playing in a new venue of any size. Talk of additional seating is very much secondary to finishing the initial project."_

Not only was the last design we saw awkward and seemingly tiny but it suggested there was little room for expansion to something even close to 30k, which done right I'm confident the United supporters would easily achieve. Fingers crossed.


ielag said:


> LigaMX US TV contracts are hard to get because each club negotiates with the networks individually. However, you can bet that Univision is paying a lot for Club America and Chivas Guadalajara.


This is something that really chaps me, both there and in Spain. Not only does it create really imbalanced revenues but it makes it harder for general fans to keep up with broadcast schedules. Granted, at least the LMX programming is more balanced for US viewers so you can easily watch clubs like Cruz Azul, Toluca, Pumas, Morelia, etc. 

Glad to see they're getting a new generation of stadiums in Mexico, as well. 


Chevy114 said:


> I think that's why MLS is starting to grow after 10-15 years of being average at best, people really are starting to think for themselves. People really are going to other outlets besides ESPN to get news and watch live events.


It certainly helps that modern media endows so many outlets and opportunities. The games and news options are there if you look, so at least footie fans don't have to feel as disenfranchised as before.

And to be honest, I can't remember the last time I watched more than 10 minutes of SportsCenter. In fact I love the commercials more than the show, these days!


----------



## zzibit

Does anyone have an update on New England's pursuit of a new stadium?


----------



## Chevy114

Are they trying to get a stadium? Hopefully it's in Boston proper!


----------



## GunnerJacket

New England has publicly said they're exploring opportunities to build a stadium for the Revs. Thus far this has meant conversion with various politicians and development partners about prospective sites and assistance with financing. They've had some promising leads but nothing that's been billed as solid. 

I'd say that when DC builds their stadium and if Atlanta proves to draw more in their NFL venue than NE, then that would make the Revs stand out all the more as the last of the teams in inappropriate NFL venues, and thus the pressure will be on. Otherwise don't expect to see a move unless the ideal location falls into their laps.

If they really build the squad, however, there's no reason they couldn't strive to emulate a portion of Seattle's success and find a better way to fill their lower two tiers. No one would gripe about their situation if they swung 23k+ per game.


----------



## ielag

GunnerJacket said:


> This is something that really chaps me, both there and in Spain. Not only does it create really imbalanced revenues but it makes it harder for general fans to keep up with broadcast schedules. Granted, at least the LMX programming is more balanced for US viewers so you can easily watch clubs like Cruz Azul, Toluca, Pumas, Morelia, etc.


Thankfully next year will be the last in La Liga where the clubs sell their domestic TV rights individually. They sell their foreign rights (like on beIN) collectively, but we know those networks are strictly paying 100% of that money for just to have Barcelona and Real Madrid.


----------



## BoulderGrad

GunnerJacket said:


> New England has publicly said they're exploring opportunities to build a stadium for the Revs. Thus far this has meant conversion with various politicians and development partners about prospective sites and assistance with financing. They've had some promising leads but nothing that's been billed as solid.
> 
> I'd say that when DC builds their stadium and if Atlanta proves to draw more in their NFL venue than NE, then that would make the Revs stand out all the more as the last of the teams in inappropriate NFL venues, and thus the pressure will be on. Otherwise don't expect to see a move unless the ideal location falls into their laps.
> 
> If they really build the squad, however, there's no reason they couldn't strive to emulate a portion of Seattle's success and find a better way to fill their lower two tiers. No one would gripe about their situation if they swung 23k+ per game.


As I've been trying to scream from the hills on this board:

Yes, as far as fan experience is concerned (Location, size, amenities, etc), Gillette is completely inappropriate for the Revs

But financially speaking for Kraft, it works just fine. He gets to book 20 or so more dates for his stadium to pad his bank account just that much more.

No way does another privately financed stadium ever pencil out for him.

The only way it happens is if he convinces some municipality in greater Boston to gift him all or a good chunk of the construction costs.

Until then, every couple months, he'll kick the tires on stadium sites to shut up the frustrated season ticket holders and go right back to counting his money.


----------



## bd popeye

BoulderGrad said:


> As I've been trying to scream from the hills on this board:
> 
> Yes, as far as fan experience is concerned (Location, size, amenities, etc), Gillette is completely inappropriate for the Revs
> 
> But financially speaking for Kraft, it works just fine. He gets to book 20 or so more dates for his stadium to pad his bank account just that much more.
> 
> No way does another privately financed stadium ever pencil out for him.
> 
> The only way it happens is if he convinces some municipality in greater Boston to gift him all or a good chunk of the construction costs.
> 
> Until then, every couple months, he'll kick the tires on stadium sites to shut up the frustrated season ticket holders and go right back to counting his money.


Exactly.^^..remember this.. rich people did not get rich spending their own money. 

Yep unless he gets some sweetheart stadium in the Boston area deal the Revs are staying put in Gillette.....


----------



## GunnerJacket

ielag said:


> Thankfully next year will be the last in La Liga where the clubs sell their domestic TV rights individually. They sell their foreign rights (like on beIN) collectively, but we know those networks are strictly paying 100% of that money for just to have Barcelona and Real Madrid.


I thought this measure didn't pass? I know it was floated but last I heard Madrid and Barcelona did not opt in.


----------



## MikeC9180

When the UEFA leagues were mentioned above I think the reference was to the revenues of the leagues associated with UEFA. I think the $1.35bn is just the UEFA competitions (Champions League and Europa League) tv revenue. If you added up the Premier League, Serie A, Bundesliga and La Liga it would eclipse $10bn easily.

Anyway, this is a thread about soccer stadia in North America, so let's get back to that ;0)


----------



## GunnerJacket

ielag said:


> Thankfully next year will be the last in La Liga where the clubs sell their domestic TV rights individually. They sell their foreign rights (like on beIN) collectively, but we know those networks are strictly paying 100% of that money for just to have Barcelona and Real Madrid.


Have been trying to confirm this and thus far the best I've found is this article dated April 3rd:



> A new collective deal won’t be in place for next season now — even with Madrid and Barça’s approval — and several clubs have already negotiated their deals for the 2015-16 campaign. But there is still hope for 2016-17:


So basically no government approval (ensuring they're not violating anti-monopoly rules) has yet been passed. From that and various Google lead-ins it sounds like the hold up is mostly political, a surprise since at least Barca's president has voiced support for the measure. We'll see if this comes to pass.


----------



## RMB2007

> *Orlando City Soccer asks fans to push for state funding for new stadium*
> 
> Construction on Orlando City Soccer's new stadium continues to run behind schedule, and now the club is asking its fans to help secure the state funding it will take to go vertical.
> 
> In an email sent to supporters Wednesday, Orlando City asked for help securing $30 million in funding from the Florida Legislature.
> 
> "While we are excited with all the progress so far, we need your help," the email states. "Please contact your local representative listed below and let them know that you support the MLS stadium project."
> 
> Orlando City currently plays in the renovated Citrus Bowl, but a soccer-specific stadium is scheduled to be built for the start of the 2016 Major League Soccer season. The stadium's total price tag is $115 million.
> 
> With 11 months to go until next season, Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer said he's still confident the team will play in its new digs in its second MLS season.
> 
> "I'm more interested in making sure that we get our money from the (Florida Legislature)," Dyer said last month. "That would leave a big hole if we don't get the $30 million ... during the next six months."
> 
> A Florida Senate panel on Tuesday tackled a provision into an economic development bill that would guarantee taxpayer money to Daytona International Speedway, as well as the stadiums used by the Jacksonville Jaguars, the Miami Dolphins and the Orlando City Lions.
> 
> The proposals would cost the state $255 million over the next two to three decades.
> 
> It's not clear if the legislation will pass by the May 1 deadline.
> 
> Rep. Richard Corcoran, a top House Republican, said he could not understand setting aside money for 'billionaire sports owners' while legislators have a stalemate over health care funding.
> 
> A legislative panel was supposed to approve the funding requests for the teams in February, but a vote on the item was delayed.


www.baynews9.com/content/news/bayne...icles/cfn/2015/4/23/orlando_city_soccer_.html


----------



## RMB2007

Video regarding Orlando's funding issue in the link below:

www.wftv.com/news/news/local/plans-orlando-city-stadium-could-be-stalling/nk2LM/


----------



## J-88

Good luck trying to get a new stadium WITHIN Boston's city limits...


----------



## will101

J-88 said:


> Good luck trying to get a new stadium WITHIN Boston's city limits...


Put it in Nickerson Field, and return the place to professional sports after 63+ years.


----------



## Chevy114

RMB2007 said:


> www.baynews9.com/content/news/bayne...icles/cfn/2015/4/23/orlando_city_soccer_.html


Great...


----------



## GunnerJacket

will101 said:


> Put it in Nickerson Field, and return the place to professional sports after 63+ years.


Not sure that would mesh well with the owners at BU. 

I think the best option remains the old dog track(?) at Wonderland, north of downtown. Not sure how it would fit in with the locals but it appears to be the most convenient combination of an accessible site with enough land.


----------



## Lakeland

will101 said:


> MLS is probably focusing on states with higher growth rates. Wisconsin and Michigan are near the bottom of growth in the US.


Population growth has nothing to do with why we don't have an MLS team. Detroit is still a top 10 TV market and has fourteen Fortune 500 companies based in the area.


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^Out of the top 15 Nielsen media markets; Detroit, Phoenix, and Tampa are the only ones with no imminent deal for an MLS team. Tampa is in a crowded market place with Orlando up and running this year and then Miami maybe eventually coming along, and they've also already had and lost an MLS franchise. Phoenix has weather issues, but I've contended a Sounders/Whitecaps setup at U of Pheonix stadium would be a pretty sweet deal (They'd even have real grass!). Detroit is also in a crowded but heavily populated area so perhaps there's some built in rivalries there?


----------



## weava

The new St Louis Rams stadium is being designed to host MLS but isn't the league moving away from NFL stadiums?


----------



## Lakeland

BoulderGrad said:


> ^^Out of the top 15 Nielsen media markets; Detroit, Phoenix, and Tampa are the only ones with no imminent deal for an MLS team. Tampa is in a crowded market place with Orlando up and running this year and then Miami maybe eventually coming along, and they've also already had and lost an MLS franchise. Phoenix has weather issues, but I've contended a Sounders/Whitecaps setup at U of Pheonix stadium would be a pretty sweet deal (They'd even have real grass!). Detroit is also in a crowded but heavily populated area so perhaps there's some built in rivalries there?


Detroit has always needed a viable soccer stadium to make it work. Back in the early MLS era, the only options were playing at the aging Pontiac Silverdome or run-down Tiger Stadium. Ford Field being built as an indoor stadium didn't help the cause.


----------



## BoulderGrad

weava said:


> The new St Louis Rams stadium is being designed to host MLS but isn't the league moving away from NFL stadiums?


mmmm.... some clarification:

Being able to hold a soccer field doesn't necessarily mean "Built for MLS". I hadn't seen anything about the Rams proposal specifically being used to lure an MLS franchise, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been suggested (Any articles?). Instead the idea is that most new NFL stadiums are being designed to hold a FIFA approved pitch to attract big friendlies, USMNT qualifying matches and being able to host world cup games.

As for MLS and NFL stadiums, the goal of MLS these days is to have teams be in a situation where they have control over their own revenue streams and have more appropriately sized facilities. That used to mean a team owned 18-20k seat stadium. But now we have the Sounders and Whitecaps successfully sharing NFL sized stadiums with the local football team, Toronto upping their SSS to 30k, and Atlanta being owned by an NFL owner and playing in a brand new stadium and suddenly everyone's again seriously discussing teams playing in tastefully tarped off NFL facilities.


----------



## weava

BoulderGrad said:


> mmmm.... some clarification:
> 
> Being able to hold a soccer field doesn't necessarily mean "Built for MLS". * I hadn't seen anything about the Rams proposal specifically being used to lure an MLS franchise, but that doesn't mean it hasn't been suggested (Any articles?)*. Instead the idea is that most new NFL stadiums are being designed to hold a FIFA approved pitch to attract big friendlies, USMNT qualifying matches and being able to host world cup games.
> 
> As for MLS and NFL stadiums, the goal of MLS these days is to have teams be in a situation where they have control over their own revenue streams and have more appropriately sized facilities. That used to mean a team owned 18-20k seat stadium. But now we have the Sounders and Whitecaps successfully sharing NFL sized stadiums with the local football team, Toronto upping their SSS to 30k, and Atlanta being owned by an NFL owner and playing in a brand new stadium and suddenly everyone's again seriously discussing teams playing in tastefully tarped off NFL facilities.


Many articles have quotes saying they hope to host an MLS team and that there have been talks with the MLS offices.


http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2015/03...eful-major-league-soccer-continues-expansion/



> The emphasis of our task force is to develop plans for a stadium on the North Riverfront of downtown St. Louis that could be the new home for the St. Louis Rams and a future MLS expansion club. We look forward to hosting MLS Commissioner Garber later this year


http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLc...Force-Focused-on-Keeping-Rams-Adding-MLS.aspx



> Meanwhile, the task force also met recently with Major League Soccer officials to share the preliminary plans and explore how a new stadium in Downtown St. Louis might become home to an MLS franchise.


http://nextstl.com/2015/01/st-louis-strikes-back-nfl-proposal-riverfront-stadium-unveiled/


> obtaining an MLS franchise is a "focal point of plan", that a new St. Louis stadium would be an "excellent home" for MLS just as it will be in Atlanta's new dual-purpose NFL/MLS venue and that the Task Force continues to "make great progress."


----------



## Guest

Bori427 said:


> No way Albuquerque gets a team.
> 
> San Jose is basically the same as San Francisco.
> 
> Don't really think Milwaukee gets an MLS team, they might get NHL.


Agree with this. San Jose is enough for that region. They're complaining about the possibility of Sacramento. Can't imagine what'd it be like with SF. 

I think San Francisco would work better for soccer than San Jose, but it's impossible to build what needs to be built there for it to work. 



Chevy114 said:


> St. Louis has so many great soccer players coming out of it, they really deserve a team. Outside of that I'm shocked Wisconsin and Michigan don't have teams.


Having good players doesn't mean you deserve a team. N Carolina produces players too, but I wouldn't give any of those cities a team. Well Charlotte would be okay I guess. Some people are big on Raleigh-Durham, but I wouldn't give it the time of the day. 

If St Louis had an investor, they could get something done. Until then, it's pie in the sky stuff. 



will101 said:


> MLS is probably focusing on states with higher growth rates. Wisconsin and Michigan are near the bottom of growth in the US.


I don't think thats true at all. MLS focus on markets that they want to be in. Milwaukee certainly isn't one of them. Detroit could be, but it needs an investor/stadium to bend over backwards to convince them. 

Very easy to see a Detroit in a 30-32 team league.


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> Having good players doesn't mean you deserve a team. N Carolina produces players too, but I wouldn't give any of those cities a team. Well Charlotte would be okay I guess. Some people are big on Raleigh-Durham, but I wouldn't give it the time of the day.
> 
> ...
> 
> I don't think thats true at all. MLS focus on markets that they want to be in. Milwaukee certainly isn't one of them. Detroit could be, but it needs an investor/stadium to bend over backwards to convince them.





BoulderGrad said:


> ^^Out of the top 15 Nielsen media markets; Detroit, Phoenix, and Tampa are the only ones with no imminent deal for an MLS team. Tampa is in a crowded market place with Orlando up and running this year and then Miami maybe eventually coming along, and they've also already had and lost an MLS franchise. Phoenix has weather issues, but I've contended a Sounders/Whitecaps setup at U of Pheonix stadium would be a pretty sweet deal (They'd even have real grass!). Detroit is also in a crowded but heavily populated area so perhaps there's some built in rivalries there?



For as much as even I engage in this type of arm-chair demography I think we can't really rule out any decent sized metro area. On metrics alone the league wouldn't have opened shop in Columbus or Kansas City compared to many bigger options, but it's safe to say those franchises are solidly part of the MLS brand and here to stay. So while on the surface cities Milwaukee, Vegas, San Antonio and PHX may seem like their MLS potential is clearly defined one way or the other we should all keep an asterisk by those calls. At the least it's safe to say that any market with more than 1M+ people and an owner willing to pony up the dough will at least get a look. 


- - - - 

Unintended irony - Looking at the colors and the keeper's outfit makes it look like this mock up of St. Louis' proposed stadium looks perfectly decked out... for Sporting KC!


weava said:


>


----------



## Chevy114

Lakeland said:


> Detroit City Football Club looks to kick it up to pro level
> 
> Building a soccer-specific stadium is key to getting a team here. I would first like to see DCFC make a move to the NASL and build an expandable stadium like Toyota Field in San Antonio.


I love that team name, that's the only city to put the world city in their name that I like in America!



weava said:


> The new St Louis Rams stadium is being designed to host MLS but isn't the league moving away from NFL stadiums?


Isn't that more for International Soccer games? I think unless they have a covering system to make it look smaller like ATL and BC I don't seem MLS being ok with it.



5portsF4n said:


> Agree with this. San Jose is enough for that region. They're complaining about the possibility of Sacramento. Can't imagine what'd it be like with SF.
> 
> I think San Francisco would work better for soccer than San Jose, but it's impossible to build what needs to be built there for it to work.
> 
> 
> 
> Having good players doesn't mean you deserve a team. N Carolina produces players too, but I wouldn't give any of those cities a team. Well Charlotte would be okay I guess. Some people are big on Raleigh-Durham, but I wouldn't give it the time of the day.
> 
> If St Louis had an investor, they could get something done. Until then, it's pie in the sky stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think thats true at all. MLS focus on markets that they want to be in. Milwaukee certainly isn't one of them. Detroit could be, but it needs an investor/stadium to bend over backwards to convince them.
> 
> Very easy to see a Detroit in a 30-32 team league.


Sorry I didn't mean that they deserve a team because they pop out good players, I meant more like they have a lot people playing it there which usually translates into fans. 

I would also give a team to NC, SC, or VA if they still want to go after untapped markets. They could be like Columbus or Portland. But only if that's the direction MLS wants to go.



BoulderGrad said:


> ^^Out of the top 15 Nielsen media markets; Detroit, Phoenix, and Tampa are the only ones with no imminent deal for an MLS team. Tampa is in a crowded market place with Orlando up and running this year and then Miami maybe eventually coming along, and they've also already had and lost an MLS franchise. Phoenix has weather issues, but I've contended a Sounders/Whitecaps setup at U of Pheonix stadium would be a pretty sweet deal (They'd even have real grass!). Detroit is also in a crowded but heavily populated area so perhaps there's some built in rivalries there?


I would say Tampa's dreams are dead on arrival. Orlando is an hour to two hours away and we barely have south eastern teams in MLS so I doubt they start overlapping now.


----------



## Bori427

I only recently realized how small is Salt Lake City...


----------



## GunnerJacket

Chevy114 said:


> I would say Tampa's dreams are dead on arrival. Orlando is an hour to two hours away and we barely have south eastern teams in MLS so I doubt they start overlapping now.


I wouldn't say DOA, though it will clearly be a spell. If Tampa has an owner, a venue plan and shows viable support then they're a credible candidate, and suddenly the Sunshine State trophy is a triumvirate affair like the Cascadian Cup! In this case the proximity could turn into a blessing. But first they need the other elements to sort themselves out. For now, that they have Jacksonville as a nearby rival is a nice piece of solace.


----------



## carnifex2005

Schedule and sites for this year's International Champions Cup 










Apparently there may be a schedule conflict for the Man U / San Jose match at Levi's so that game may be at Stanford Stadium instead.


----------



## Chevy114

GunnerJacket said:


> I wouldn't say DOA, though it will clearly be a spell. If Tampa has an owner, a venue plan and shows viable support then they're a credible candidate, and suddenly the Sunshine State trophy is a triumvirate affair like the Cascadian Cup! In this case the proximity could turn into a blessing. But first they need the other elements to sort themselves out. For now, that they have Jacksonville as a nearby rival is a nice piece of solace.


I get what you're saying and I wish it could happen but Portland and Seattle are 3 hours apart, both are large cities, and both are in different states so it isn't an issue like Tampa and Orlando's hour distance and practically shared market. If Jacksonville or Miami got the bid over OC I would say yes Tampa has a shot, but I just don't think its feasibly by MLS standards. Which is sad to type because I loved the Rowdies, the Mutiny, and the new Rowdies.


----------



## will101

carnifex2005 said:


> Schedule and sites for this year's International Champions Cup
> 
> Apparently there may be a schedule conflict for the Man U / San Jose match at Levi's so that game may be at Stanford Stadium instead.


I can't find a word about any possible schedule conflict at Levi's on that date. There is a One Direction concert two weeks before, and a high school football game a week after, but nothing on that date.


----------



## GunnerJacket

carnifex2005 said:


> Schedule and sites for this year's International Champions Cup


Nice to see Man United an Barca get some global exposure. Those are two teams that you don't hear much about. Maybe this will get them a few bandwagon fans.









Chevy114 said:


> I get what you're saying and I wish it could happen but Portland and Seattle are 3 hours apart, both are large cities, and both are in different states so it isn't an issue like Tampa and Orlando's hour distance and practically shared market.


Well, soccer and MLS are slightly different and more dependent on rivalries, plus if DC & Baltimore can foster pull it off perhaps when the "Orlampa" metro grows larger they can do the same!


----------



## SJAnfield

5portsF4n said:


> Agree with this. San Jose is enough for that region. They're complaining about the possibility of Sacramento. Can't imagine what'd it be like with SF.
> 
> I think San Francisco would work better for soccer than San Jose, but it's impossible to build what needs to be built there for it to work.
> 
> 
> 
> Having good players doesn't mean you deserve a team. N Carolina produces players too, but I wouldn't give any of those cities a team. Well Charlotte would be okay I guess. Some people are big on Raleigh-Durham, but I wouldn't give it the time of the day.
> 
> If St Louis had an investor, they could get something done. Until then, it's pie in the sky stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think thats true at all. MLS focus on markets that they want to be in. Milwaukee certainly isn't one of them. Detroit could be, but it needs an investor/stadium to bend over backwards to convince them.
> 
> Very easy to see a Detroit in a 30-32 team league.



It's hilarious what people outside of the Bay Area think works when it comes to San Francisco and San Jose.


----------



## vadin

SJAnfield said:


> It's hilarious what people outside of the Bay Area think works when it comes to San Francisco and San Jose.


So true!!! LOL. Most of the azzes in seats at pro sports events in the Bay Area are from the South Bay. And the demographic that actually plays and follows soccer are in the South Bay.... But somehow SF works better for soccer. SMH.hno:


----------



## will101

SJAnfield said:


> It's hilarious what people outside of the Bay Area think works when it comes to San Francisco and San Jose.


Or Oakland.


----------



## Dexter Morgan

https://twitter.com/AnAbnos/status/591642789768724480



> Garber: We would not have launched NYCFC if we didn't think they would get a stadium. It's taking longer than we thought.


https://twitter.com/jessespector/status/591642843699138560



> Garber: NYCFC stadium is “going to take longer than we thought. … They’re just not doing it in the press. That’s a good idea on their part.”


----------



## SJAnfield

will101 said:


> Or Oakland.



Or Oakland


----------



## slipperydog

Chevy114 said:


> Let's not go throwing the word flagship around. LA had Beckham for years, Columbus had the first soccer specific stadium that started this whole craze like the O's did for the baseball stadium craze, and most importantly Red Bulls have the nicest stadium in MLS. NYCFC just has the most potential, even compared to Red bulls and LA since NYC population dwarfs theirs.
> 
> NYCFC did what any team in a crappy stadium deal does, say they have a deal in place and show pictures of it. Orlando City is having funding problems too, but at least they broke ground.
> 
> I still think the Yankees aren't just any team so they won't just suck it up. That's where you run into even bigger issues to me. This isn't San Jose playing at a college soccer stadium for 10 years until they get a deal, this is a team with the biggest city and best arenas/stadiums to compete with. This won't fly and I bet if they don't break ground in the next 3 years they move to another city and possibly another state. New York doesn't like to be embarrassed like this.


That's why I'm quite happy to call myself a fan of a club (LAFC) that doesn't even exist yet. Because it seems like ownership is trying to get their ducks in a row first instead of making bold proclamations and not being able to follow through. They are planning to announce the stadium in the next month, hopefully with those awesome renderings that have been rumored, and then go to work on financing, construction, hiring team personnel, and starting the youth academy. They are even willing to delay their entry to 2018 (three whole seasons) to make sure they start the right way. (perhaps with Cristiano??)


----------



## Chevy114

Yeah I wonder why not the queens site, I see nothing but garbage surrounding Citi with a weak plan for Williots point.


----------



## Chevy114

slipperydog said:


> That's why I'm quite happy to call myself a fan of a club (LAFC) that doesn't even exist yet. Because it seems like ownership is trying to get their ducks in a row first instead of making bold proclamations and not being able to follow through. They are planning to announce the stadium in the next month, hopefully with those awesome renderings that have been rumored, and then go to work on financing, construction, hiring team personnel, and starting the youth academy. They are even willing to delay their entry to 2018 (three whole seasons) to make sure they start the right way. (perhaps with Cristiano??)


Seems weird that they would make 2 teams share an NFL stadium, but LA could have 2 pro soccer stadiums in one city, but no complaints here!


----------



## aaronniuk

For me New York could support 3 MLS teams. You only have to get a subway out to Coney Island to see that there is acres of space for a stadium and with a population far enough away from a competing sport bar the Coney Island Cyclones(Minor League Baseball).

I'm also surprised that no team has considered Icahn Stadium as a venue whether it be for New York RedBulls II or a temporary venue for NYC FC though its got terrible transport links. It is the closest stadium to downtown Manhattan.


----------



## krkseg1ops

Stadiums (some of them) are really nice and dandy but what's the appearance on those MLS games? MLS was ranked below 50 in the world's strongest leagues' chart and this has to do with MLS teams not being competitive outside the US. Why is it? Nobody wants to sponsor it thus get more valuable(=better) players? I reckon this is not a national sport but seeing these arenas being built/renovated one wonders who's going to come and watch the game. 

@aaroniuk what's the point of having 3 weak teams in one city instead of one which is decent? NYC, IMO, could support even more but again, who is going to visit those games and support their teams? Are there even enough people in NYC who know soccer? I'm not trying to bitch here, just genuinely wondering what's the case here. Don't you guys like soccer?


----------



## Bori427

Do you really believe in those rankings?

I'm pretty sure MLS is a Top 20 league.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Lots of nonsense flying the last day or two about nycfc. No... MLS wouldn't dream of moving them, even if they are still without a SSS in 3 years. Nor would it really even be possible for them to switch to NASL. Manchester city didn't pay $100mil to put their brand in NYC just to have MLS move them or drop them because their current home wasn't purpose built. (Srsly, how do you think these decisions are made?...). I'm sure both sides would like to get a new facility worked out, but you don't go nuclear if the plan hits a road block....


----------



## GunnerJacket

gazzaa2 said:


> I don't know why they couldn't play in NASL for a while, built a bit of a fanbase (brand loyalty) until they broke ground on a new stadium. Similar to Orlando.


MLS and NASL are different leagues with, shal we say, a less-than-congenial relationship at the moment. Plus as Boulder points out City Football Group is trying to make a serious investment while their brand is at an all-time high. You don't do that by starting off crawling.



BoulderGrad said:


> Lots of nonsense flying the last day or two about nycfc. No... MLS wouldn't dream of moving them, even if they are still without a SSS in 3 years. Nor would it really even be possible for them to switch to NASL. Manchester city didn't pay $100mil to put their brand in NYC just to have MLS move them or drop them because their current home wasn't purpose built. (Srsly, how do you think these decisions are made?...). I'm sure both sides would like to get a new facility worked out, but you don't go nuclear if the plan hits a road block....


+1

Though us haters of CFG might hope for such!


alexandru.mircea said:


> They're only a few matches into their existence, were they supposed to have everything sorted already?


People expecting a change now are missing the point, I feel. The change should've been enacted well before now. MLS isn't the Premier League but you'd like to think that one of your new heavy hitter investors would present a better product than being in Yankee Stadium with no Plan B in sight.


Chevy114 said:


> Let's not go throwing the word flagship around.


While I agree the fact remains that because this is New York, the Yankees and Etihad it's no doubt this effort was intended to appear like a flagship. MLS bent over backwards to make NY#2 happen, they've been touting the financial muscle of CFG... This is obviously intended to bring more attention than, say, Orlando, Sacramento, Atlanta...

Put another way - If the new Atlanta franchise was going through this everyone would say MLS was high in letting it happen at all.



krkseg1ops said:


> MLS was ranked below 50 in the world's strongest leagues' chart and this has to do with MLS teams not being competitive outside the US.


Link please.


----------



## bd popeye

krkseg1ops said:


> @aaroniuk what's the point of having 3 weak teams in one city instead of one which is decent? NYC, IMO, could support even more but again, who is going to visit those games and support their teams? Are there even enough people in NYC who know soccer? I'm not trying to bitch here, just genuinely wondering what's the case here. Don't you guys like soccer?


I'm no soccer fan. Just a stadium fan.

there are over 8,000,000 residents in NYC. And there are over 20,000,000 residents in the metro area. I'm sure more than a few know soccer. 

I don't know about the quality of play in the MLS but I do know the MLS attendance is outstanding.

Check this chart out;



...and this link will show you the final MLS attendance for 2014.

*MLS 2014 final attendance blogspot* 

And the charts on this page will give you some comparison figures with other football associations in the World.

List of attendance figures at domestic professional sports leagues | wiki


----------



## aaronniuk

Just to be pedantic but MLS measures ticket sales including season tickets, NOT the actually attendance.


----------



## Welkin

aaronniuk said:


> Just to be pedantic but MLS measures ticket sales including season tickets, NOT the actually attendance.


Hey, a ticket sold is a ticket sold. It is not their fault that someone buys a ticket then fails to show up for the match.


----------



## Guest

aaronniuk said:


> Just to be pedantic but MLS measures ticket sales including season tickets, NOT the actually attendance.


So does the UK :lol: And just about every other sports league. 

Come back when you have a point to make.


----------



## krkseg1ops

bd popeye said:


> I'm no soccer fan. Just a stadium fan.
> 
> there are over 8,000,000 residents in NYC. And there are over 20,000,000 residents in the metro area. I'm sure more than a few know soccer.
> 
> I don't know about the quality of play in the MLS but I do know the MLS attendance is outstanding.
> 
> Check this chart out;
> 
> 
> 
> ...and this link will show you the final MLS attendance for 2014.
> 
> *MLS 2014 final attendance blogspot*
> 
> And the charts on this page will give you some comparison figures with other football associations in the World.
> 
> List of attendance figures at domestic professional sports leagues | wiki


Ok, I'm a bit out of the blue now. Seems like Yanks are slowly getting to like soccer and actually watch it. What is the soccer awarenes in high school/college? Is it an important sport? How does it cope with other mainstreams like baseball, nba, football?

@GunnerJacket :

http://www.iffhs.de/the-worlds-strongest-national-league-2014/

This is the official IFFHS chart, US league has fallen several spots YTY and now is below UAE league! Is it because there is no influx of new fans? Is it advertised accordingly? Given prime time in the media? Are kids encouraged to play soccer or not really?


----------



## GunnerJacket

krkseg1ops said:


> @GunnerJacket :
> 
> http://www.iffhs.de/the-worlds-strongest-national-league-2014/
> 
> This is the official IFFHS chart, US league has fallen several spots YTY and now is below UAE league! Is it because there is no influx of new fans? Is it advertised accordingly? Given prime time in the media? Are kids encouraged to play soccer or not really?


Thanks for the link. The answer as to why the MLS ranks where it does is this - the methodology used to provide a universal ranking for 100+ leagues that don't always play each other is contrived at best and total malarkey at worst. Put simply, it's one organizations way of appeasing the modern day internet crowd by providing lists, rankings and metrics for something where those don't exist.

You don't need a list to know La Liga and the Premiership are at/near the top or that the Greek and Chilean leagues are further down. The nuances between being 14th or 15th are really a matter of opinion, based on the formula of choice. I could contrive my own that puts MLS about 20 and it would be just as valid. One thing I know as an avid consumer of both leagues, MLS is not 20+ ranking points behind the Scottish Premiership!

True enough, MLS lacks a number of truly globally competitive powers, as evidenced by their CCL performances. But they've consistently gotten better and that will continue as more money flows to development.


----------



## aaronniuk

5portsF4n said:


> So does the UK :lol: And just about every other sports league.
> 
> Come back when you have a point to make.


Not strictly true. In England its up to the individual club as to how they report attendance either based on ticket sales or actual attendance.

Though I'd tend to believe the figures in the England.

I was at a DC United game last year where they reported 13'000 at the game which was extremely extremely questionable.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

krkseg1ops said:


> @GunnerJacket :
> 
> http://www.iffhs.de/the-worlds-strongest-national-league-2014/
> 
> This is the official IFFHS chart, US league has fallen several spots YTY and now is below UAE league! Is it because there is no influx of new fans? Is it advertised accordingly? Given prime time in the media? Are kids encouraged to play soccer or not really?


IFFHS is a scam by all accounts. For years, German journalists have tried to speak with the "people" (anyone!) from behind IFFHS to see what their competences are, who are the "experts" they're supposedly working with, what are their procedures etc... To no avail. It may just be one guy in his bedroom having fun with his little website.

Edit: the Romanian top flight above the Dutch or Ukrainean one is a really hilarious nudge showing how much "IFFHS" is taking the piss. :lol:


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

krkseg1ops said:


> ...official *IFFHS* chart...


:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## joezierer

krkseg1ops said:


> @GunnerJacket :
> 
> http://www.iffhs.de/the-worlds-strongest-national-league-2014/
> 
> This is the official IFFHS chart, US league has fallen several spots YTY and now is below UAE league! Is it because there is no influx of new fans? Is it advertised accordingly? Given prime time in the media? Are kids encouraged to play soccer or not really?


If kids counted to the record I'm pretty sure America would be in the top 5 in total soccer players. It is HUGE with kids. I grew up in a small town (~1000) in the midwest that had a kids league.

The problem with MLS is they hamper the pro-level game by keeping wages low. When you can be a backup's backup's backup on a bad NFL team for the same pay as being the MLS MVP, no one is gonna go for it. Lots of football and basketball stars grew up playing soccer.


----------



## gazzaa2

joezierer said:


> If kids counted to the record I'm pretty sure America would be in the top 5 in total soccer players. It is HUGE with kids. I grew up in a small town (~1000) in the midwest that had a kids league.
> 
> The problem with MLS is they hamper the pro-level game by keeping wages low. When you can be a backup's backup's backup on a bad NFL team for the same pay as being the MLS MVP, no one is gonna go for it. Lots of football and basketball stars grew up playing soccer.


Won't the recent minimum wage increase help?


----------



## GunnerJacket

joezierer said:


> The problem with MLS is they hamper the pro-level game by keeping wages low.


That's not a problem. That's their economic reality. 

Even with their new media deals next year more than 30 different soccer clubs in Europe will each earn more TV money than the entire MLS! More than 3x that will have higher media revenues than the average MLS team. Until the TV money grows substantially MLS is going find it difficult to offer notably higher wages without risking the health of the teams. 

Will the new increased minimum wages help? Definitely, but we're still talking a modest amount for what will most likely be a short career. They've just now achieved a minimum rate that will allow them to play and practice full time without needing a side job. Not something that will endear the best and most talented to doggedly pursue an MLS career.


----------



## ObiUbamba

5portsF4n said:


> If Tampa didn't burn their bridges in the league's infancy, they'd be a good candidate today. But with Orlando there it seems unlikely any city other than Miami will ever see MLS.


I wouldn't rule out Tampa just yet. the rowdies are building a really steady product under their new owner, Bill Edwards. Edwards has repeatedly said he wants MLS, and he can probably afford it. I think it is a very good possibility in a few years if they continue to grow.


----------



## Chevy114

I will rule out Tampa for everyone. Orlando is too close, we can't find the money to build a proper stadium or even enough to upgrade their current stadium to look like the Portland. Finally bigger cities still don't have a team in their area, so Tampa is far down the list if you ask me. I hope I am wrong, I want an MLS team again, but man I highly doubt it.

P.S. I don't really consider what happened in Tampa their fault or them burning bridges. MLS didn't want individual owners at first and then when they changed their minds Tampa couldn't find an owner fast enough for MLS standards and we lost our team.


----------



## Melb_aviator

What would be the % of support that NYRB have from NY vs NJ?

From an outsiders viewpoint, I still don't understand why NYRB don't try and differentiate themselves as a NJ side. They seem to play down that they are based out there, and continue to hold on that they are NY.


----------



## bd popeye

Melb_aviator said:


> What would be the % of support that NYRB have from NY vs NJ?
> 
> From an outsiders viewpoint, I still don't understand why NYRB don't try and differentiate themselves as a NJ side. They seem to play down that they are based out there, and continue to hold on that they are NY.


The same reasons the New York Giants and New York Jets who play in New Jersey do.. the name is New York.


----------



## master_klon

Melb_aviator said:


> From an outsiders viewpoint, I still don't understand why NYRB don't try and differentiate themselves as a NJ side. They seem to play down that they are based out there, and continue to hold on that they are NY.


Branding - NJ isn't quite as sexy.

On a weekend RB Arena is reasonably accessible from Manhattan, the Bronx, Queens and Brooklyn so it makes sense not to close off that market, although on a weekday that potential fanbase would be much smaller. The tradeoff for the club between building in NY or NJ is the location vs greater investment in stadium quality and future expansion opportunity. Harrison was largely undeveloped so I'm sure that the owners got a good deal to build out there and in the next few years the area should begin to come to life.


----------



## Chevy114

How many weekday games do the Redbulls have? I thought the MLS was really good at keeping majority of the games on the weekend?


----------



## GunnerJacket

Melb_aviator said:


> From an outsiders viewpoint, I still don't understand why NYRB don't try and differentiate themselves as a NJ side. They seem to play down that they are based out there, and continue to hold on that they are NY.


A) Metropolitan NYC consumes parts of New Jersey and Connecticut, but it's all understood to be part of the metro setting. NYC is, after all, a global brand name. No matter how nice New Jersey truly is compared to some perceptions it can't compete with NYC. It's why most US sports teams use the name of the prominent metro area even if they're located on the fringes of that area. To wit...

B) At about 7 miles Red Bull Arena is closer to Manhattan (NYC's core) than the venues for Chicago Fire (Bridgeview ~ 12 miles from downtown), FC Dallas (Frisco ~ 25 miles from downtown). Might be 1-2 more also further out. Ere go, they may be in NJ but they're decidedly within the NYC area.


----------



## bd popeye

That New York Brand is powerful..period.



GunnerJacket said:


> Earlier Toronto debuted the expanded BMO Field. *(Get ready, Popeye, as the Reds will now show actual home attendances!)* Sadly the home team played lackluster and left the crowd wanting something to cheer about after falling to Houston 2-1. Reds defense looked porous and the midfield lacks steel.


MLS attendance thru May 10th 2015;


----------



## GunnerJacket

If we're done with the cold spells perhaps the Rapids, Crew, Revs and Fire can continue to raise their figures. Would be great to see the league not only top 20k for an average but to also have everyone above 15k.


----------



## bd popeye

Chevy114 said:


> How many weekday games do the Redbulls have? I thought the MLS was really good at keeping majority of the games on the weekend?


You know google is your friend Chevy114. Most of your questions can be answered by a simple search..

NY Red Bulls schedule

..too easy..and I am NOT a soccer fan..but just a stadium fan...


----------



## Chevy114

bd popeye said:


> You know google is your friend Chevy114. Most of your questions can be answered by a simple search..
> 
> NY Red Bulls schedule
> 
> ..too easy..and I am NOT a soccer fan..but just a stadium fan...


It was more sarcasm because most of the games are on the weekend like people who complain about how hot a baseball stadium gets when most teams average 1 day game a week. The drive to NJ shouldn't be a big deal if 70% of games are on the weekend.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Chevy114 said:


> It was more sarcasm because most of the games are on the weekend like people who complain about how hot a baseball stadium gets when most teams average 1 day game a week. The drive to NJ shouldn't be a big deal if 70% of games are on the weekend.


MLS has stated they want to keep weeknight games to a minimum but their teams will likely still average 5 per year after they factor in US Open Cup games, CONCACAF games, schedule adjustments for international events and simply trying to keep the season from getting too long. And though MLS did want to be in a position where 90% of their games are played on weekends they did concede to regular Friday night games for the Spanish broadcasting partners. (Friday night having similar traffic issues to other weeknights.)

The good news is they're now pretty consistent with making the weeknight games happen on Wednesdays, which makes it easier for fans to adjust. The beauty of owning their venues.


----------



## Lumbergo

bd popeye said:


> That New York Brand is powerful..period. MLS attendance thru May 10th 2015; http://imgur.com/yOoxiXw


I'm starting to think Orlando may need to consider building a larger stadium... Even if you don't average in their first game where they filled the bowl - those are still some impressive numbers.


----------



## will101

Lumbergo said:


> I'm starting to think Orlando may need to consider building a larger stadium... Even if you don't average in their first game where they filled the bowl - those are still some impressive numbers.


Let's see if they're still drawing these crowds two or three years from now.


----------



## Chevy114

Lumbergo said:


> I'm starting to think Orlando may need to consider building a larger stadium... Even if you don't average in their first game where they filled the bowl - those are still some impressive numbers.


I bet they add seats in that one area behind the goal if they need to:


----------



## GunnerJacket

Lumbergo said:


> I'm starting to think Orlando may need to consider building a larger stadium... Even if you don't average in their first game where they filled the bowl - those are still some impressive numbers.


I'm going to agree with will101 here. Montreal and Philly came into the league with comparable pomp and enthusiasm but right now with their teams mired in mediocrity they're both below 20k. (And some of that might be generous given the difference between tickets counted vs actually butts in the stands, as they say.)

If they want to expand their new digs to about 20k I think that will be fine, and I do think Orlando will continue to do well in making this their thing, since they don't have MLB. But still a little caution is still wise at this point, I feel. They can always have the occasional big game back at the Citrus Bowl as the market warrants.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Hey all,

MLS supposedly has all match highlights on their youtube channel, but I can't find the highlights for NYRB vs NYC at all, can you help?


----------



## tehlazerviking

alexandru.mircea said:


> Hey all,
> 
> MLS supposedly has all match highlights on their youtube channel, but I can't find the highlights for NYRB vs NYC at all, can you help?


http://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2015-05-10-new-york-red-bulls-vs-new-york-city-fc/recap


----------



## slipperydog

LAFC stadium will be announced on Monday...hopefully it comes with a rendering or two


----------



## RMB2007

https://twitter.com/Jorrin_JF


----------



## pesto

WesTexas said:


> Ya, Avaya is in the growing area it would see.
> 
> I will say that the only possible upside for FCD is that Frisco is EXPLODING! Toyota is building their new *Corporate HQ *out there, as are the Dallas Cowboys. It's growing...but still...they are so far north from everyone who want's to watch them.


North American HQ. Hope the guests from Japan are soccer fans!


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

pesto said:


> This is not true.
> 
> North of Exposition is USC and that area is definitely gentrifying or at least student housing is pushing out many of the really dilapidated buildings. But this is well south of Exposition, just off of MLK and from there heading west, south or east is very downmarket and* among the most violent parts of LA*.
> 
> The good news is that the subway station is to the north, on Exposition and the path between it and the stadium is through public buildings and walkways that have decent security.
> 
> People have been hoping that this will bring some expansion of the gentrifying area further south toward Vernon and Slauson but it will be quite a while.


Not really true... you would have to go another 20 to 30 blocks to get to the truly violent areas. The area around Expo and USC has gentrified a lot and is continuing to do so at a rapid clip.


----------



## GreenHornet553

BoulderGrad said:


> Teams that were first in line with SSS's got screwed by the changing target demographic and tight budgets of early MLS. Compared to what teams are able to afford and achieve now, its going to leave them at a disadvantage for at least a little while. But its still hard to financially justify scrapping a whole facility that's only 10 or so years old. Still, it would be awesome to see them move closer to town sooner rather than later.
> 
> The worst cases, where the team is in a far flung locale that's causing them some issues are:
> 
> * New England*


The sad part about this is that Bob Kraft (as lackluster of an owner he has been for the MLS, which is opposite of what he is for the Patriots), has made serious attempts to remedy this and has been shut down at every opportunity. All I hope is that the South Boston stadium plan actually works. If the Revs are able to get a new stadium in the city of Boston, the team will be better off.


----------



## The Game Is Up

David Beckham, MLS commissioner Don Garber to discuss possible stadium partnership with University of Miami: report

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/s...cuss-stadium-u-miami-report-article-1.2231539

A few other details on potential UM/MLS stadium project and their Friday meeting

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/spor...stadium-project-and-their-friday-meeting.html


----------



## weava

The Game Is Up said:


> David Beckham, MLS commissioner Don Garber to discuss possible stadium partnership with University of Miami: report
> 
> http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/s...cuss-stadium-u-miami-report-article-1.2231539
> 
> A few other details on potential UM/MLS stadium project and their Friday meeting
> 
> http://miamiherald.typepad.com/spor...stadium-project-and-their-friday-meeting.html


I don't understand why U of Miami would be interested in a 40,000 seat stadium when they averaged 52,000 last year and pull over 70,000 when they play big names. They have had 24 home games with over 75,000 in their history.


----------



## Lumbergo

in the last 5 years U of Miami averaged 51,061.

52,518 in 2014
53,837 in 2013
47,719 in 2012
48,654 in 2011
52,575 in 2010

if anything they should be aiming for a 50K stadium deal but with 40K they'd be able to charge more for tickets and the stadium would always be full...


----------



## Lumbergo

slipperydog said:


> NASL announces Miami FC as league's 12th club.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/21/s...in-2016-beating-david-beckham-onto-field.html
> 
> That puts two teams in the South Florida market (Fort Lauderdale and Miami FC), while MLS sits around and waits for Beckham. Well played, NASL, well played.
> 
> Do I hear an amen, Sacramento?


gotta love this jab at Beckham:

_The club does not have a stadium agreement for next year, but — unlike Beckham — it says it will not pursue one.

Instead, Silva said, he is negotiating to use one of several existing arenas, including one at Florida International University.

“We don’t have this obligation,” Silva said in reference to Beckham’s mandate to build a stadium. “We don’t think it’s necessary.”_

I could see some politicians pointing out the fact that NASL hasn't asked for any public money for a stadium in Miami and has instead decided to simply begin play as soon as possible so to as build a fan base in the area. that's something MLS should really have done from the get go - I still think asking for a stadium for a team that does not exist and has no fan base is ludicrous and is part of the reason why the public and politicians have been reluctant when it comes to Beckham in Miami.


----------



## carnifex2005

carnifex2005 said:


> Schedule and sites for this year's International Champions Cup
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently there may be a schedule conflict for the Man U / San Jose match at Levi's so that game may be at Stanford Stadium instead.


For the ICC match, Man U will be playing San Jose at Berkley...

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/manchester-united-san-jose-match-played-berkeley-232919474--mls.html

BERKELEY, Calif. (AP) -- Manchester United's exhibition game against Major League Soccer's San Jose Earthquakes on July 21 will be played at Kabam Field at California Memorial Stadium.

The site was announced Thursday.

Manchester United's other three preseason matches in the U.S., which were announced on April 28, are against Mexico's Club America at Seattle on July 17; Barcelona at Santa Clara, California, on July 25; and Paris Saint-Germain at Chicago on July 29.


----------



## Chevy114

I don't why Miami can't build a 60K stadium tarp off the top level for soccer and tarp off the seats for bad um games. I feel bad that UM lost the Orange Bowl for that joke of a baseball site. The baseball stadium is cool though.


----------



## GunnerJacket

weava said:


> I don't understand why U of Miami would be interested in a 40,000 seat stadium when they averaged 52,000 last year and pull over 70,000 when they play big names. They have had 24 home games with over 75,000 in their history.


40k is the minimum mark being referenced and likely stems from past stories about what might fit onto the possible sites mentioned. I'm guessing that with all the requirements The U is putting into this they'd only settle for <50k if it checks every other box possible: Location, suites, parking...



carnifex2005 said:


> For the ICC match, Man U will be playing San Jose at Berkley...


Kabam Field?! Please tell me that's someone's name and not some goofy internet business.



Chevy114 said:


> I don't why Miami can't build a 60K stadium tarp off the top level for soccer and tarp off the seats for bad um games.


Right now, as I understand it, the main issue is location. There isn't a spot ideally suited within/near downtown or Coral gables that could do this or else it would've been snared by now. This is why the oft discussed capacities are much lower.

That plus once you start talking about more than 40k you're talking about much larger scales of construction and cost. At 40k you can get away with building a second tier only on the sides, but at 50k+ you're getting beyond that. Given how tight the local governments will be regarding money this proposal will need to come in with as small a request for financial aid as possible.


> I feel bad that UM lost the Orange Bowl for that joke of a baseball site.


The effect of some very unfortunate timing. The U made the decision when they lacked the money to do anything serious with the stadium, which needed a lot of work and was considered a liability in recruiting (compared to their peers). Plus progress in fixing up the neighborhood was going very slowly. If the upper deck had been something they could've easily removed and replaced with proper suites that would've been ideal, but the extent of work and cost that would've been involved retrofitting the whole place was beyond the university's capacity. Last number I heard was something on the order of $300M +. Once they hinted at possibly vacating the site it became a target for the Marlins and their political allies, hastening the Hurricane's move before any second guessing could arise.

Looking back, had they known MLS might be an option in the future they might've fought harder to find a way. Alas.


----------



## Chevy114

Oh yeah coral gables probably isn't where you want a soccer stadium but anything too far away isn't convent for UM fans.


----------



## Lupin III

pesto said:


> North American HQ. Hope the guests from Japan are soccer fans!


Actually Toyota main company are huge football fans.

Toyota owns one of the J-League clubs with biggest budget Nagoya Grampus and besides has built a 40000 sss in Toyota city which is not technically Nagoya and Nagoya Grampus only uses this stadium 50% of their matches.


----------



## pesto

Lupin III said:


> Actually Toyota main company are huge football fans.
> 
> Toyota owns one of the J-League clubs with biggest budget Nagoya Grampus and besides has built a 40000 sss in Toyota city which is not technically Nagoya and Nagoya Grampus only uses this stadium 50% of their matches.


Interesting! You learn something every day.


----------



## The Game Is Up

MLS May Be Partnering Up With UM

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2015/05/22/mls-making-progress-in-miami-dade/


David Beckham, Miami Hurricanes meeting about soccer-football stadium

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...ricanes-meeting-about-soccer-football-stadium


It’s not MLS vs NASL in Miami

http://www.ussoccerplayers.com/2015/05/its-not-mls-vs-nasl-in-miami.html


David Beckham Looks To An Unlikely Partner To Bring Soccer To Miami

http://wlrn.org/post/david-beckham-looks-unlikely-partner-bring-soccer-miami


Video: Get a glimpse of the LAFC stadium announcement

http://www.thegoatparade.com/2015/5...-nomar-garciaparra-magic-johnson-henry-nguyen


----------



## Lupin III

Lupin III said:


> Actually Toyota main company are huge football fans.
> 
> Toyota owns one of the J-League clubs with biggest budget Nagoya Grampus and besides has built a 40000 sss in Toyota city which is not technically Nagoya and Nagoya Grampus only uses this stadium 50% of their matches.


Actually when I dig in my knowledge a bit more I realizes that Toyota are quite a fanatical football ownership because of following:

1. When J-League was created Toyota was one of the club owners wanting to remove the corporate name from the club name together with Sumitomo Metals in Kashima, Panasonic in Osaka and Mazda in Hiroshima while the media owned clubs owned headed by Yomiuri medias (also owning the biggest japanese baseball franchise was against).

2. When J-League in the formative years adviced Toyota that they could get a tax redemption if they choose to have their corporate name somewhere on the shirt, they answered they wanted to run the club as a patronage.

Their interest for football are probably the reason why they are sponsoring stadiums in the US so yes it would not be a surprise if they did something more.


----------



## Jim856796

*Earthquakes Leave Avaya Stadium for Two Games*

The San Jose Earthquakes' new stadium sells out for every game and gets quite some praise. But the Earthquakes still decided to leave their Avaya Stadium for two games of their regular season. Why?

This weekend, a fixture agains Orlando SC is to be played at Levi's Stadium, and another fixture (the California Clasico) against the LA Galaxy will be played at Stanford Stadium on June 27. The move is planned as an attempt "to create new fans of the San Jose Earthquakes".

Source: MLSsoccer.com


----------



## will101

Jim856796 said:


> *Earthquakes Leave Avaya Stadium for Two Games*
> 
> The San Jose Earthquakes' new stadium sells out for every game and gets quite some praise. But the Earthquakes still decided to leave their Avaya Stadium for two games of their regular season. Why?
> 
> This weekend, a fixture agains Orlando SC is to be played at Levi's Stadium, and another fixture (the California Clasico) against the LA Galaxy will be played at Stanford Stadium on June 27. The move is planned as an attempt "to create new fans of the San Jose Earthquakes".
> 
> Source: MLSsoccer.com


When both games draw roughly triple the capacity of Avaya, then it's obvious that they are attracting fans that don't get to see the Quakes normally. Plus they make a fair chunk of change for those games, and the cost of Avaya had almost doubled before it was completed.

And keep in mind that both games were started when they were stuck in 10,525 seat Buck Shaw Stadium, so they were drawing close to five times the current capacity then.


----------



## GunnerJacket

I'd even add that because they host these two games at the larger stadiums that's enabled them make the Avaya Stadium more intimate and help with the sell-outs.


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> I'd even add that because they host these two games at the larger stadiums that's enabled them make the Avaya Stadium more intimate and help with the sell-outs.


All seems very reasonable. Similarly, I would assume LAFC went small (22k) since the Coliseum is next door for the matches with very large demand.

Of course it sounds less money-grubbing if you say the purpose is "introduce new fans to soccer". But they didn't get out of Santa Clara County, so they didn't wander far from home.


----------



## carnifex2005

Austin Aztex of USL-PRO home field (House Park) is now a swimming pool...










Top: House Park yesterday 

Bottom: House Park Today

Here's a couple of more pics...


----------



## will101

RMB2007 said:


> Great to hear:
> 
> www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orla...ity-soccer-stadium-update-20150529-story.html


It is great to hear, but I'd be shocked if they got the design finalized and construction completed in a year. Their fans should start thinking in terms of the 2017 season, so they won't be disappointed when the inevitable delays creep in.


----------



## cbk1128

will101 said:


> It is great to hear, but I'd be shocked if they got the design finalized and construction completed in a year. Their fans should start thinking in terms of the 2017 season, so they won't be disappointed when the inevitable delays creep in.


Definitely agree with that. The most recent plans allowed for expansion of the upper deck to the corners of the bowl, but that obviously isn't an additional 5,000-8,000 seats, so some pretty significant design modifications are probably going to be made.


----------



## slipperydog

RMB2007 said:


> www.bostonglobe.com/business/2015/0...tml?s_campaign=bostonglobe:socialflow:twitter


Think it might be fun to have a little board competition on who can guess the order of who will break ground on their SSS first: NYC FC, Minneapolis, Miami, and New England.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Miami Mayor on MLS/UM Stadium: ‘Running Out of Time’

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2015/05/26/mayor-on-stadium-plan-running-out-of-time/


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> Think it might be fun to have a little board competition on who can guess the order of who will break ground on their SSS first: NYC FC, Minneapolis, Miami, and New England.


I'm in! Are we saying actual construction and not the ceremonial gold shovels? Should we add DC and/or LA?

Minneapolis - They have land, money and govt. support.
DC - Have the site but the political wheels grind slowly in DC
LAFC - Site picked out but just starting conceptual process
NYCFC - The urgency will force their hand
New England - The financials make it more and more attractive
Miami - Becks' partners break down and pay over-the-top


----------



## Dexter Morgan

Change the name to Boston Revolution?


----------



## will101

GunnerJacket said:


> I'm in! Are we saying actual construction and not the ceremonial gold shovels? Should we add DC and/or LA?
> 
> Minneapolis - They have land, money and govt. support.
> DC - Have the site but the political wheels grind slowly in DC
> LAFC - Site picked out but just starting conceptual process
> NYCFC - The urgency will force their hand
> New England - The financials make it more and more attractive
> Miami - Becks' partners break down and pay over-the-top


Yeesh. Toughie. I'm gonna say DC will break ground first, second choice LA.


----------



## ChesterCopperpot

Fantastic drone footage of Tim Hortons Field in Hamilton, ON last night during the Canada vs England womens game


----------



## will101

ChesterCopperpot said:


> Fantastic drone footage of Tim Hortons Field in Hamilton, ON last night during the Canada vs England womens game


That was quite a flight. Taking off from what looks like Mountain Drive Park, and going for more than a kilometer to the stadium, paralleling Gage Avenue. I wonder if the operator got in trouble with the authorities.


----------



## bd popeye

Dexter Morgan said:


> Change the name to Boston Revolution?


How about Boston American SC..?? please don't throw bricks at me...and yes I know about Club America in the Liga MX.


----------



## noize

Someone once said about, I can't remember the nick, but the US clubs could adopt the real name of the sport, Association Football. I think would be awesome if the acronym 'AF' compose the names, and would be pretty original too.


----------



## JJG

noize said:


> Someone once said about, I can't remember the nick,* but the US clubs could adopt the real name of the sport*, Association Football. I think would be awesome if the acronym 'AF' compose the names, and would be pretty original too.


Please... don't start this again. 

As for New England changing its name to "Boston _____"...why? It's fine the way it is.


----------



## will101

bd popeye said:


> How about Boston American SC..?? please don't throw bricks at me...and yes I know about Club America in the Liga MX.


I actually did go outside and throw a brick at you, but I suspect it fell about 2,000 miles short.


----------



## noize

JJG said:


> Please... don't start this again.
> 
> As for New England changing its name to "Boston _____"...why? It's fine the way it is.


:goodbye:


----------



## GunnerJacket

noize said:


> Someone once said about, I can't remember the nick, but the US clubs could adopt the real name of the sport, Association Football. I think would be awesome if the acronym 'AF' compose the names, and would be pretty original too.


Los Angeles Association Football! " Let's all be havin' a LAAF!.


----------



## noize

Don't be silly, c'mon! :grumpy: I didn't suggest that ALL the clubs adopt that, only the ones who looks good, compose well.

(nice joke anyway.)


----------



## goldy21

"AF" is now common shorthand for "As F*ck", so that probably won't fly.


----------



## matthemod

If you do go down the road of having Association Football in the title, most teams who do that in the U.K. follow it up with "Club".

It's particularly prevalent oop north where another code of Football is popular, Hull City A.F.C. and Hull F.C. (Rugby League) being an example, not to mention there's also a minor Hull R.U.F.C. as well (Rugby Union).

There's no reason it couldn't work stateside which seems to be in the exact same situation.


----------



## weava

matthemod said:


> If you do go down the road of having Association Football in the title, most teams who do that in the U.K. follow it up with "Club".
> 
> It's particularly prevalent oop north where another code of Football is popular, Hull City A.F.C. and Hull F.C. (Rugby League) being an example, not to mention there's also a minor Hull R.U.F.C. as well (Rugby Union).
> 
> There's no reason it couldn't work stateside which seems to be in the exact same situation.


AFC is already a popular sports term in America. American football conference (half of the NFL)


----------



## pesto

matthemod said:


> If you do go down the road of having Association Football in the title, most teams who do that in the U.K. follow it up with "Club".
> 
> It's particularly prevalent oop north where another code of Football is popular, Hull City A.F.C. and Hull F.C. (Rugby League) being an example, not to mention there's also a minor Hull R.U.F.C. as well (Rugby Union).
> 
> There's no reason it couldn't work stateside which seems to be in the exact same situation.


Or taking a page from the Department of Redundancy Department, we could append "Association Football Association", as in LA AFA.


----------



## master_klon

DC United stadium update. Formal announcement tomorrow.



> District Mayor Muriel E. Bowser and D.C. United’s owners have finalized a stadium development deal to keep the team in D.C. provided that the District government secures the needed land by Sept. 30, according to multiple officials involved in negotiations.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...d-district-reach-final-terms-on-stadium-deal/


----------



## BoulderGrad

master_klon said:


> DC United stadium update. Formal announcement tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...d-district-reach-final-terms-on-stadium-deal/


So confirming the feeling that the whole Virginia thing was just a negotiating tactic. Remember for future reference kidos


----------



## Anday

BoulderGrad said:


> So confirming the feeling that the whole Virginia thing was just a negotiating tactic. Remember for future reference kidos


I think they were considering moving to Virginia but they made it well known they were so DC would stop sitting on their a!s's and get moving on the deal.


----------



## will101

BoulderGrad said:


> So confirming the feeling that the whole Virginia thing was just a negotiating tactic. Remember for future reference kidos


Or they could have done all of that just to give a boost to public interest. I bet the formal announcement gets five times the audience that it would have otherwise.


----------



## GunnerJacket

BoulderGrad said:


> So confirming the feeling that the whole Virginia thing was just a negotiating tactic. Remember for future reference kidos


MLS needs its version of LA a la the NFL - That currently unserved market whereby owners could threaten a move if no action is taken! _"Oh yeah? Well if I don't get my stadium I'm packing up and moving the team to... to... NORTH VIRGINIA!"_ 

That's the ticket. :cheers:


----------



## GunnerJacket

bd popeye said:


> Mod delete I goofed!





bd popeye said:


> mod delete I goofed!





bd popeye said:


> mod delete I goofed!


Popeye, I thought you got off the hooch! Seriously, don't drink and post, dude. Next thing you know there'll be pics of you doing duckfaces all over the interwebs! Not cool, man. Not cool.









:banana:


----------



## bd popeye

GunnerJacket said:


> Popeye, I thought you got off the hooch! Seriously, don't drink and post, dude. Next thing you know there'll be pics of you doing duckfaces all over the interwebs! Not cool, man. Not cool.


Ahh LOL!.. I did stop drinking alcoholic beverages on Super Bowl Sunday 2003...

What happened here I posted in the WRONG thread!


----------



## Topher51

Anday said:


> I think they were considering moving to Virginia but they made it well known they were so DC would stop sitting on their a!s's and get moving on the deal.


No, they considered moving to Baltimore a few years ago. To anyone familiar with the area, the two locations they floated were sooooo remote and would have prevented more than half of the population from attending weeknight games, it was obvious they were not serious options.

Applause, applause, DC and DC United. I am very much looking forward to going to games at the new stadium.


----------



## ielag

Probably end up seeing DCU's training facilities and offices in VA.


----------



## 3tmk

What do they plan on doing with the RFK stadium once (if ever) DCU gets its own?


----------



## RMB2007

3tmk said:


> What do they plan on doing with the RFK stadium once (if ever) DCU gets its own?


Would be demolished. From previous reports, it's certainly on its last legs.


----------



## BoulderGrad

RMB2007 said:


> Would be demolished. From previous reports, it's certainly on its last legs.


Mr Snyder has been sortof eyeing the site for a new Redskins stadium.


----------



## GunnerJacket

3tmk said:


> What do they plan on doing with the RFK stadium once (if ever) DCU gets its own?


Roman Abromovich buys expansion rights to create Chelsea USA and assumes rights to the land for a new venue, only to be put off by the cost and eventually they play for 3 seasons in the Nationals ball park, then ultimately sharing space with United before building a new home of their own in Loudonville! Game on!


----------



## Topher51

ielag said:


> Probably end up seeing DCU's training facilities and offices in VA.


I doubt it. I recall reading that the team offices will be in the new stadium (of course, that was over a year ago) and they already have practice fields and DC United Academy in the district. I have not read the agreement with the city, but the city's stadium agreement with the Nationals included requirements for developing a youth program for kids in the city. I imagine they did the same thing with DC United, or at least made them guarantee to maintain their existing program.


----------



## sitruc

Topher51 said:


> I doubt it. I recall reading that the team offices will be in the new stadium (of course, that was over a year ago) and they already have practice fields and DC United Academy in the district. I have not read the agreement with the city, but the city's stadium agreement with the Nationals included requirements for developing a youth program for kids in the city. I imagine they did the same thing with DC United, or at least made them guarantee to maintain their existing program.


More youth teams were part of the agreement and are already happening. The RFK auxiliary fields are barely enough for the main team. The other teams mostly use other fields around the region. Also, there are no true training facilities next to the fields.


----------



## noize

Another f****** awesome performance by the US boys! :cheers2: The MNT goes strong for 2018 WC.

Ps: Michael Bradley could be in the starting XI of any top team in the world.


----------



## Anday

How many seats? A look at the amended D.C. United stadium deal

Let’s get to some relevant passages:

The District will spend up to $89 million on land acquisition and $61 million on land preparation. If, as a result of eminent domain action against Akridge, the land acquisition costs go up, D.C. United will reimburse D.C. 50 percent of the excess to a maximum amount of $10 million, paid in annual installments as part of the team’s ground lease.

D.C. will pay Pepco $39,345,788 for its parcel (plus $1 million for the removal of combustion turbines), $15,861,752 for the Super Salvage land and $10,325,920 for Mark Ein’s lot. In a separate agreement, Pepco will pay the District $15.8 million for land at First and K streets NW.

Per the revised development agreement, D.C. United must provide the District with its utility requirements for the stadium and any ancillary development by Sept. 1. The city will bring utility service to the perimeter of the stadium land, but the team will be responsible for the installation and connection of new utility lines and service to the stadium.

D.C. United must submit one or more conceptual design proposals by Sept. 1, final conceptual design by March 1, development design by June 1, 2016, permit drawings by Sept. 1, 2016, and construction drawings by Dec. 31, 2016.

The team must enter into a definitive construction contract by Jan. 1, 2017, which must provide for a $1.5 million workforce incentive program to drive up the number of employed D.C. residents.

Relocation and rearrangement of utilities by the District must be complete by Sept. 1, 2016. The agreement does not set a specific deadline for completion of roads, sidewalks, traffic signals and highway signage except “prior to substantial completion of the Stadium.”

The lease for the stadium footprint is for an initial period of 30 years, with three five-year optional extensions. The lease carries a price of $1 per year. If D.C. United develops adjacent, D.C.-owned land, that rent — equal to 5 percent of the fair market value of the improvements — won’t be due for 35 years.

The District also has agreed to consider re-sequencing its streetcar plans to advance a line between Buzzard Point and downtown, though it does not stop the city from “discontinuing, rerouting or curtailing” the streetcar.

The city will not be required to remediate petroleum contaminated soil provided that the dirt can be excavated and tipped at an approved disposal facility. The excavation will be financed by the team as part of the construction of the stadium, while the District will pay the incremental cost of disposing the contaminated soil.

A “No Relocation Agreement” requires D.C. United to play “substantially” all of its home games at the new stadium, to maintain its principal offices in the District, and to make “reasonable efforts” to locate its practice field and any related facilities in the city.

The District will be entitled to use a designated luxury suite and 25 box seats for all games and all other stadium events.

The team will control the naming and any other stadium-related promotional rights


----------



## GunnerJacket

noize said:


> Another f****** awesome performance by the US boys! :cheers2: The MNT goes strong for 2018 WC.


I've been truly impressed by this side, most especially their grit and work rate. A shame they couldn't find this level against Belgium last year, but some of that might be the new personnel. Guzan still has some work to do, though, and it's clear why he was behind Freidel. And the back 4-5 have shown some clear lapses.



> Ps: Michael Bradley could be in the starting XI of any top team in the world.


That might be a bit of a stretch. Barca? Chelsea? Bayern?

But yeah, he's been really coming of age. He's developed solid vision and confidence in his abilities, especially when clicking with the right team of strikers. He can show fatigue easily if having to recover on defense too often but as TFC has shown lately if you can resolve that he's a tremendous asset going forward. Depending on the length of his career he could be an all-timer for the US.


----------



## diz

bd popeye said:


> _*MLS attendance thus far for the 2015 MLS season*_


Portland ALWAYS sold out. :cheers: They need a bigger stadium. A lot more people want to attend the game, but the Timbers Army always beat everyone to the punch.


----------



## SounderBruce

diz said:


> Portland ALWAYS sold out. :cheers: They need a bigger stadium. A lot more people want to attend the game, but the Timbers Army always beat everyone to the punch.


The site is not expandable at all. The south end is occupied by the MAC, an athletic club/gym for Portland's richest and most influential.

I don't see Portland leaving their stadium (with its historic and located-in-the-neighborhood atmosphere), but I'd love to see them propose a stadium near the new South Waterfront area.


----------



## will101

SounderBruce said:


> The site is not expandable at all. The south end is occupied by the MAC, an athletic club/gym for Portland's richest and most influential.


Indeed, the Multnomah Athletic Club used to own the stadium (until 1966), and the deal with the city precludes anything that would affect the club itself, or their free view of any game or event at the stadium.


----------



## carnifex2005

Yeah, Portland is all about hindsight. In their presentation to the city during expansion phase, the Timbers said they would break even with 12500 fans in the seats. I'm sure they had no idea that the Timbers would blow up so much.


----------



## RMB2007

I'd love to see Portland with a new stadium like Coface Arena:

http://www.stadionwelt.de/sw_stadie...adionfotos_detail&id=5792&ordner=blick&page=1

http://www.stadionwelt.de/sw_stadie...tadionfotos_detail&id=5792&ordner=luft&page=1


----------



## SounderBruce

RMB2007 said:


> I'd love to see Portland with a new stadium like Coface Arena:
> 
> http://www.stadionwelt.de/sw_stadie...adionfotos_detail&id=5792&ordner=blick&page=1
> 
> http://www.stadionwelt.de/sw_stadie...tadionfotos_detail&id=5792&ordner=luft&page=1


I'd prefer an open end facing the Willamette River.


----------



## mamangvilla

can't they add an upper deck over the main stand?


----------



## carnifex2005

mamangvilla said:


> can't they add an upper deck over the main stand?


No, there's a street and most of the stadium parking right behind that stand. There is literally no more room for that stadium to expand unless they bring in a standing area and even then, the concourses are too narrow for anyone else.


----------



## mamangvilla

If I remember correctly, i've read somewhere in this thread (hundreds of pages ago) that there's a ruling from the city that the field must be visible from street level. If that's true, maybe they could ask for a change and add 5-10 rows to the main stand.

Honestly, I don't see it as a big problem for them, at least not until the league's attendance grown and left them behind in number. Athmosphere-wise, they are the best, hands down.


----------



## MarkJF

GunnerJacket said:


> I've been truly impressed by this side, most especially their grit and work rate. A shame they couldn't find this level against Belgium last year, but some of that might be the new personnel. Guzan still has some work to do, though, and it's clear why he was behind Freidel. And the back 4-5 have shown some clear lapses.
> 
> That might be a bit of a stretch. Barca? Chelsea? Bayern?
> 
> But yeah, he's been really coming of age. He's developed solid vision and confidence in his abilities, especially when clicking with the right team of strikers. He can show fatigue easily if having to recover on defense too often but as TFC has shown lately if you can resolve that he's a tremendous asset going forward. Depending on the length of his career he could be an all-timer for the US.


Belgium had the world class players and they were full of confidence, a bit misplaced, as recently shown, that's the way it goes...Guzan is recognised here as very good keeper but he needs a move to better club, he'll end up being "shot shy" if he stays at Villa much longer


----------



## The Game Is Up

USL’s Charlotte Independence interested in MLS move

http://www.empireofsoccer.com/charlotte-independence-interested-36059/


Charlotte's Roadmap To MLS Soccer: Target Rowdiest Fans

http://wfae.org/post/charlottes-roa...r=http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FF2YyRzdQvm#mobile/74352


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^get in line guys.


----------



## ardamir

The Game Is Up said:


> USL’s Charlotte Independence interested in MLS move
> 
> http://www.empireofsoccer.com/charlotte-independence-interested-36059/
> 
> 
> Charlotte's Roadmap To MLS Soccer: Target Rowdiest Fans
> 
> http://wfae.org/post/charlottes-roa...r=http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FF2YyRzdQvm#mobile/74352


There are already four announced expansion teams that have yet to play so Charlotte's chances of receiving a MLS franchise any time soon are very slim. IMO for the sake of developing talent there needs to be more focus on stabilizing and growing the NASL and USL.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Well maybe not soon but MLS has already indicated an intention to go beyond 24, so if as BoulderGrad is implying there is a line then all the better for Charlotte to get into that line as quickly as possible. MLS might be 10, 15 years out or later but every journey needs that first step, so that's what they're doing. No fault in trying, and frankly I'm disappointed I haven't heard as much or more from other oft mentioned candidates like St. Louis or Phoenix. 

Plus, as a soccer fan in the US I'm just thrilled to see anybody talking up the idea and wanting to join the pro soccer scene. Unheard of 15 years ago.


----------



## RMB2007

*Orlando City*


----------



## GunnerJacket

Well, either that means a likely delay or I have a very different sense of what constitutes a "significant" design change. But as long as it makes the fans happy then so be it.


----------



## carnifex2005

I think OC have already said they'll be using the Citrus Bowl for another season, so we won't see a new stadium until 2017.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Some contradictory articles from Minnesota:

Major League Soccer firm on July 1 deadline for stadium approval

http://www.startribune.com/major-le...ne-for-stadium-plan-to-be-approved/307398531/

Can Bill McGuire get what Zygi Wilf, Jim Pohlad and Craig Leipold got? They discussed.

http://www.minnpost.com/sports/2015...m-pohlad-and-craig-leipold-got-they-discussed

And out of Miami:

County Commissioner: MLS Stadium Will Need Better Transit

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/county-commissioner-mls-stadium-will-need-better-transit-7689424


----------



## GreenHornet553

bd popeye said:


> How about Boston American SC..?? please don't throw bricks at me...and yes I know about Club America in the Liga MX.


Peronally; I always thought that the Revs, should they choose to rebrand, should become the Boston Rovers Football Club. Named after the short lived Boston Shamrock Rovers, which were an extension of Ireland's Shamrock Rovers FC. Especially considering how the team is potentially making a move to South Boston, and that Boston supports anything that is remotely Irish-related.


----------



## master_klon

A look at the history and evolution of Providence Park: http://www.timbers.com/news/2015/06...ccer-city-usa-historic-providence-park-shines


----------



## The Game Is Up

Mpls. council gives soccer-stadium proposal its 1st formal boost

http://www.startribune.com/minneapo...dium-proposal-its-1st-formal-boost/308433391/


----------



## goldy21

Great news. Orlando City announced that the capacity of the new stadium will have a capacity of 26,000 - 28,000 and it will be privately financed.

"'Building a 19,000-seat stadium wasn’t going to cut it, and, once we realized we needed alternative funding, it gave us the opportunity to see it as a blank canvas and draw up something completely new.' team president Phil Rawlins said following the conference."

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/orlando-city-soccer-stadium-announcement-coming-to/nmQ5M/

http://stadiumdb.com/news/2015/05/usa_orlando_city_take_stadium_into_their_hands


----------



## Guest

Its a risk. I hope its closer to 26k than 28k. Regardless of capacity, what you want to see is no spare seats at any game. Half a season seems too soon to gauge long term interest.


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> Its a risk. I hope its closer to 26k than 28k. Regardless of capacity, what you want to see is no spare seats at any game. Half a season seems too soon to gauge long term interest.


Well, if they have the season ticket demand to warrant the increase then I say go for it. MLS is a pretty known commodity at this point and the business acumen of the owners and the league is trending up, so even if this increase does over-shoot the mark a bit I imagine it won't be by much and it likely is still worth the investment. Plus, it appears OCFC have done well in capitalizing on being THE thing for the residents during the summer. They've taken it to heart as a pro sports franchise with the same support and respect as an MLB team. (In fact I think they're thriving on being the alternative to the Tampa Bay Rays.) 

I freely admit, they've proven me wrong with the degree that they've supported the team. So good for them and for MLS.


----------



## aaronniuk

Smart move. There would be the fear of regret if they were to proceed with a 19k stadium and suffer with over demand when they had to chance to change things now. MLS and Football in America is only going to grow.


----------



## The Game Is Up

St. Paul Mayor Coleman met with MN United owner to talk pro-soccer 

http://blogs.twincities.com/cityhal...-met-with-mn-united-owner-to-talk-pro-soccer/


St. Paul Businesses Ready to Step Up if Mpls. Soccer Stadium Deal isn't Reached 

http://kstp.com/news/stories/S3832005.shtml?cat=1


Beckham Partner, Sprint CEO, Meets with Miami-Dade Mayor

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/...ium-Plans-Beckham-United-Group-309011111.html


----------



## Guest

GunnerJacket said:


> Well, if they have the season ticket demand to warrant the increase then I say go for it. MLS is a pretty known commodity at this point and the business acumen of the owners and the league is trending up, so even if this increase does over-shoot the mark a bit I imagine it won't be by much and it likely is still worth the investment. Plus, it appears OCFC have done well in capitalizing on being THE thing for the residents during the summer. They've taken it to heart as a pro sports franchise with the same support and respect as an MLB team. (In fact I think they're thriving on being the alternative to the Tampa Bay Rays.)
> 
> I freely admit, they've proven me wrong with the degree that they've supported the team. So good for them and for MLS.


I get theyre good for it, especially in the long term. I just prefer to see every game packed. Not a sleight on OC, just my neuroses.


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> Not a sleight on OC, just my neuroses.


You're a fan of soccer in the US. Neuroses comes standard with that.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Rumblings from various press reports suggesting the Atlanta MLS team will be Atlanta United FC. If this proves true I wanted to come here and in advance apologize for this boneheaded mistake by Mr. Blank and company. 

Seriously, I'll be with those at the name and badge debut event on the 7th and knowing this news is causing me to reconsider my season tickets, knowing the leadership is that out of touch with the fan base and this myopic with regards to marketing. Count me among those ready to start the petition to change the name.

United my a**.


----------



## Lakeland

How hard is it to come up with a creative name associated with the city or state? Instead of paying some firm to come up with generic crap like United, City or FC, why not visit some message boards and see what the actual fans want. You can find a dozen names and logos that will be 10x better than what the team decides.










I still can't believe the Clippers actually paid someone to design this. :lol:


----------



## carnifex2005

Lakeland said:


> How hard is it to come up with a creative name associated with the city or state? Instead of paying some firm to come up with generic crap like United, City or FC, why not visit some message boards and see what the actual fans want. You can find a dozen names and logos that will be 10x better than what the team decides.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I still can't believe the Clippers actually paid someone to design this. :lol:


They paid EA Sports for it...


----------



## tinyslam

GunnerJacket said:


> Rumblings from various press reports suggesting the Atlanta MLS team will be Atlanta United FC. If this proves true I wanted to come here and in advance apologize for this boneheaded mistake by Mr. Blank and company.
> 
> Seriously, I'll be with those at the name and badge debut event on the 7th and knowing this news is causing me to reconsider my season tickets, knowing the leadership is that out of touch with the fan base and this myopic with regards to marketing. Count me among those ready to start the petition to change the name.
> 
> United my a**.


So what was that whole survey I filled out a few months ago for? :nuts: With red and black colors we would have a Man U Jr. to go with Man City Jr. If only we could get Rooney when he gets older. :drool:


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

Lakeland said:


> How hard is it to come up with a creative name associated with the city or state? Instead of paying some firm to come up with generic crap like United, City or FC, why not visit some message boards and see what the actual fans want. You can find a dozen names and logos that will be 10x better than what the team decides.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I still can't believe the Clippers actually paid someone to design this. :lol:


I always wondered what they were named after so I'll ask here - what does the word clipper mean?

I already hate Atlanta United FC. :banana:


----------



## bd popeye

dinamo_zagreb said:


> I always wondered what they were named after so I'll ask here - what does the word clipper mean?
> 
> I already hate Atlanta United FC. :banana:


A Clipper is a sailing ship.


----------



## Lumbergo

GunnerJacket said:


> Rumblings from various press reports suggesting the Atlanta MLS team will be Atlanta United FC. If this proves true I wanted to come here and in advance apologize for this boneheaded mistake by Mr. Blank and company.
> 
> Seriously, I'll be with those at the name and badge debut event on the 7th and knowing this news is causing me to reconsider my season tickets, knowing the leadership is that out of touch with the fan base and this myopic with regards to marketing. Count me among those ready to start the petition to change the name.
> 
> United my a**.


"United" doesn't even make sense in regards to Atlanta


----------



## Welkin

dinamo_zagreb said:


> I always wondered what they were named after so I'll ask here - what does the word clipper mean?
> 
> I already hate Atlanta United FC. :banana:


Great picture of the Clipper ship Popeye. Just as a follow-up the previous question..... The Los Angeles Clippers used to be based in San Diego which has a strong naval history. While the name Clippers is a little odd for Los Angeles (I guess not that odd when you consider they also kept the Lakers name when that team moved from Minneapolis), it was a good name for a team from San Diego. IMO the Los Angeles Stars would have been a better name when they moved from San Diego.


----------



## Guest

Atlanta United, I can dig that. 

The one thing I like about the FCs, City's and United's is that it forces people to use the name of the city.


----------



## Welkin

Lumbergo said:


> "United" doesn't even make sense in regards to Atlanta


What a lost opportunity and a total lack of imagination. Very disappointing. As quoted from the article:

"Atlanta will be the *20th United* across the top four tiers of U.S. soccer (MLS, NASL, USL and PDL/NPSL) and very well may be one of two teams named United FC joining MLS in 2017 (more on that below). That repetition, not to mention the fact that* United is a pretty well established MLS brand thanks to the four-time champion in D.C., *makes Atlanta’s choice a bit surprising. We’ll likely have to wait until July 7 for an explanation. The club did not respond to an email requesting comment."


----------



## GunnerJacket

Welkin said:


> What a lost opportunity and a total lack of imagination. Very disappointing.


Exactly. In a desperate attempt to appease hard core traditionalists, the management team overshot the mark and fell onto the easiest escape route from having to actually create anything new. The result is that the team will have almost no identity of its own whatsoever. As someone wishing for this city and her teams to truly rise above the morass, this just drags us back down. 

I can't believe the league approved this, knowing it simply adds to the mockery. I can't believe the marketing folks approved this knowing it can't possibly help build the Atlanta brand. All I wanted when I plunked down my money was that they didn't f*** it up and choose some cartoonish name like Tyrannosaurs. I guess I forgot to consider they'd possibly choose a name already taken that has nothing to do with our history.


----------



## Lakeland

Welkin said:


> Great picture of the Clipper ship Popeye. Just as a follow-up the previous question..... The Los Angeles Clippers used to be based in San Diego which has a strong naval history. While the name Clippers is a little odd for Los Angeles (I guess not that odd when you consider they also kept the Lakers name when that team moved from Minneapolis), it was a good name for a team from San Diego. IMO the Los Angeles Stars would have been a better name when they moved from San Diego.


Memphis did the same thing with the Grizzlies, but at least they tried to change their name to Express. The NBA rejected them since it prohibits teams from being named after a sponsor (Federal Express). 

Clippers kept their name probably because Donald Sterling was too cheap to do a rebrand. I think the old San Diego logo is better than anything they've come up with since moving to LA.


----------



## Guest

GunnerJacket said:


> Exactly. In a desperate attempt to appease hard core traditionalists, the management team overshot the mark and fell onto the easiest escape route from having to actually create anything new. The result is that the team will have almost no identity of its own whatsoever. As someone wishing for this city and her teams to truly rise above the morass, this just drags us back down.
> 
> I can't believe the league approved this, knowing it simply adds to the mockery. I can't believe the marketing folks approved this knowing it can't possibly help build the Atlanta brand. All I wanted when I plunked down my money was that they didn't f*** it up and choose some cartoonish name like Tyrannosaurs. I guess I forgot to consider they'd possibly choose a name already taken that has nothing to do with our history.


Until they actually reveal the name, all of this is pure speculation. Not to say that it won't be AUFC in the end. But for all we know those leaks could just be a ruse to raise interest ahead of the announcement.


----------



## master_klon

The club has confirmed the name... http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...down-newest-team-name-mls-selected-supporters


----------



## Guest

Atlanta United it is. Good job, like it. They said they will find a nickname in due course. Lots of people refer to OC as the Lions, so its not all doom and gloom for people that hate it. 

Cant imagine a petition will work considering it was fan consensus. 

Eitherw way, much better than Phoenix, Black Harts, Terminus or some other shit.


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> Atlanta United it is. Good job, like it. They said they will find a nickname in due course. Lots of people refer to OC as the Lions, so its not all doom and gloom for people that hate it.
> 
> Cant imagine a petition will work considering it was fan consensus.


Let's make this clear: IT WAS NOT FAN CONSENSUS. As one of those who participated, the survey said "_Which words do you associate with soccer?_" and "_What type of nickname would you prefer - Traditional or Non-traditional?"_ From that the club culled the most common denominator and said "_done!_" Every poll with names provided by the local paper and the Terminus Legion found United didn't even rate consideration.

At no point were we ever presented with something formal from the team that suggested Atlanta United! EVER! And now they're the laughing stock on BigSoccer, MLS boards, the Terminus Legion boards and SiriusXM FC radio. Brilliant job, Eales! Way to demonstrate being out of touch with local soccer fans and fail to create an original brand for our city.

I'm guessing Blanks' son is a Man U fan. They don't want fans, just consumers.


----------



## Cjones2451

The should have made everyone "happy" and called them

FC Sporting Real Atlanta United SC :banana:


----------



## Topher51

GunnerJacket said:


> Rumblings from various press reports suggesting the Atlanta MLS team will be Atlanta United FC. If this proves true I wanted to come here and in advance apologize for this boneheaded mistake by Mr. Blank and company.
> 
> United my a**.


Atlanta Delta FC would have made more sense than this. I understand that there are a dozen teams named United in the English leagues, but come on! There is no need to have three teams with the same nickname in MLS. 

Atlanta Athletic FC: Just as common, but an infinitely better choice. That took 5 seconds of thought.


----------



## pesto

Welkin said:


> Great picture of the Clipper ship Popeye. Just as a follow-up the previous question..... The Los Angeles Clippers used to be based in San Diego which has a strong naval history. While the name Clippers is a little odd for Los Angeles (I guess not that odd when you consider they also kept the Lakers name when that team moved from Minneapolis), it was a good name for a team from San Diego. IMO the Los Angeles Stars would have been a better name when they moved from San Diego.


LA is even getting some rail and trolleys now, so there are a few for the Dodgers to dodge (although most are either subways or elevated). But lakes are in really short supply nowadays.

The only real connection is the Angels.


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

Thanks for answers, guys. Weird they didn't do rebranding in all those years.


----------



## pesto

dinamo_zagreb said:


> Thanks for answers, guys. Weird they didn't do rebranding in all those years.


You're not likely to rebrand the Lakers or Dodgers, since they are among the most valuable sporting brands in the world. As for the others, it's a very costly process with no guaranty that you'll ever regain the value of the brand you are leaving.

In any event, there's no universal inclination to brand teams to their cities (Pittsburgh Pirates? Detroit Tigers? Cincinnati Royals?) To me, the funniest case is the Utah Jazz, which didn't change their name when they left New Orleans, even though Salt Lake City is hardly known for their jazz clubs or history.


----------



## bd popeye

pesto said:


> In any event, there's no universal inclination to brand teams to their cities (Pittsburgh Pirates? Detroit Tigers? Cincinnati Royals?) To me, the funniest case is the Utah Jazz, which didn't change their name when they left New Orleans, even though Salt Lake City is hardly known for their jazz clubs or history.


Cincinnati Royals more than likely came from Cincinnati, my home town as a child, is still called.. the Queen City.

The Queen City


----------



## carnifex2005

pesto said:


> You're not likely to rebrand the Lakers or Dodgers, since they are among the most valuable sporting brands in the world. As for the others, it's a very costly process with no guaranty that you'll ever regain the value of the brand you are leaving.
> 
> In any event, there's no universal inclination to brand teams to their cities (Pittsburgh Pirates? Detroit Tigers? Cincinnati Royals?) To me, the funniest case is the Utah Jazz, which didn't change their name when they left New Orleans, even though Salt Lake City is hardly known for their jazz clubs or history.


As I said a few years ago, the Utah Jazz, Charlotte Bobcats and New Orleans Hornets should have just did a 3 way trade so they can all get proper names back.


----------



## Riise

5portsF4n said:


> Atlanta United, I can dig that.


I prefer traditional-style names but Atlanta United is an absolute joke. It is a brand new franchise and is neither the merging of one or more clubs nor is it unifying act for parties/groups in the area. It's poor, lazy and ever so contrived.


----------



## Guest

Riise said:


> I prefer traditional-style names but Atlanta United is an absolute joke. It is a brand new franchise and is neither the merging of one or more clubs nor is it unifying act for parties/groups in the area. It's poor, lazy and ever so contrived.


If it is, then fans will clamour for change, just like the Sounders fans did. I just dont get the impression this is offensive enough to swing it. As I said, Orlando City arent the Orlando City Lions, but plenty call them the Lions. Something similar in Atlanta is the way to go.


----------



## pesto

bd popeye said:


> Cincinnati Royals more than likely came from Cincinnati, my home town as a child, is still called.. the Queen City.
> 
> The Queen City


Every state seems to have a few self-styled "Queen Cities", but I'll give you that one in any case.

How about Sacramento Kings instead? :lol:


----------



## vanbasten88

5portsF4n said:


> Atlanta United, I can dig that.
> 
> The one thing I like about the FCs, City's and United's is that it forces people to use the name of the city.


Except the boneheads that will invariably refer to them as the "Uniteds"iirc DCUnited had that issue back in the 1990s 

Here in Oz it really grates my cheese to hear Sydney FC referred to on fan boards as "FC" like they are the only friggen Football Club in the comp grrr:bash:


----------



## pesto

Cjones2451 said:


> The should have made everyone "happy" and called them
> 
> FC Sporting Real Atlanta United SC :banana:


Even better, drop the "Atlanta" and market yourself around the world.


----------



## willygtoc

Atlanta United is a joke and is lame. There will be 3 united soon. hno:

Atlanta Legion was the best option.


----------



## Guest

vanbasten88 said:


> Except the boneheads that will invariably refer to them as the "Uniteds"iirc DCUnited had that issue back in the 1990s
> 
> Here in Oz it really grates my cheese to hear Sydney FC referred to on fan boards as "FC" like they are the only friggen Football Club in the comp grrr:bash:


Same thing happens in England with Manchester, Newcastle and Sheffield. 



willygtoc said:


> Atlanta United is a joke and is lame. There will be 3 united soon. hno:
> 
> Atlanta Legion was the best option.


I wouldn't agree. But Legion could be a fine nickname.


----------



## bd popeye

pesto said:


> Every state seems to have a few self-styled "Queen Cities", but I'll give you that one in any case.
> 
> How about Sacramento Kings instead? :lol:


Maybe not, I forgot something...and I should have remembered. I grew up in Cincinnati.

In case you did not know the Sacramento Kings inherited that name thusly;

1957...Rochester Royals moved to Cincinnati

1972...Cincinnati Royals moved to Kansas City and played some games in Omaha..yep.

1985...Kansas city-Omaha Kings moved to Sacramento...

From wiki..



> The Kings are the oldest franchise in the NBA, and one of the oldest continuously operating professional basketball franchises in the nation. They originated in Rochester, New York as the Rochester Seagrams in 1923. In 1945, the team was renamed the Rochester Royals and joined the National Basketball League. They jumped to the Basketball Association of America, forerunner of the NBA, in 1948. As the Royals, the team was often successful on the court, winning the NBA championship in 1951. However, they found it increasingly difficult to turn a profit in the comparatively small market of Rochester, and relocated to Cincinnati, Ohio in 1957, becoming the Cincinnati Royals. In 1972, the team relocated to Kansas City, Missouri, initially splitting their games between Kansas City and Omaha, Nebraska, and taking up the name Kansas City Kings. The team again failed to find success in that market, and moved to Sacramento in 1985, although in the past decade they still are struggling with their last post season appearance being in 2006.


Sorry for all the off topic...


----------



## Lumbergo

5portsF4n said:


> Either way, much better than Phoenix, Black Harts, Terminus or some other shit.


I dunno about Black Harts - but Phoenix or Terminus would have been awesome!

Atlanta Terminus SC
Atlantic Phoenix SC
Or as someone else said
Atlanta Athletic SC

Any of those would have been great compared
To United and at least unique for MLS.


----------



## Guest

Lumbergo said:


> I dunno about Black Harts - but Phoenix or Terminus would have been awesome!
> 
> Atlanta Terminus SC
> Atlantic Phoenix SC
> Or as someone else said
> Atlanta Athletic SC
> 
> Any of those would have been great compared
> To United and at least unique for MLS.


If Gunner is right, then Atlanta's fan base will rise up and demand change. We're still 20 months away from Atlanta kicking off.


----------



## pesto

bd popeye said:


> Maybe not, I forgot something...and I should have remembered. I grew up in Cincinnati.
> 
> In case you did not know the Sacramento Kings inherited that name thusly;
> 
> 1957...Rochester Royals moved to Cincinnati
> 
> 1972...Cincinnati Royals moved to Kansas City and played some games in Omaha..yep.
> 
> 1985...Kansas city-Omaha Kings moved to Sacramento...
> 
> From wiki..
> 
> Sorry for all the off topic...



I knew that; I can remember Twyman and Maurice Stokes and the horrible injury. And I can remember the sharing with Omaha.

But Sacramento is neither Queen City nor King City (that's over near Salinas). :lol: 

Also, sorry for off topic. Won't do it again.


----------



## ObiUbamba

I don't know if this has been addressed yet here, but does anyone know what will happen to the Silverbacks in 2017? Are they going away or will they be "absorbed" by Atlanta United FC?


----------



## GunnerJacket

ObiUbamba said:


> I don't know if this has been addressed yet here, but does anyone know what will happen to the Silverbacks in 2017? Are they going away or will they be "absorbed" by Atlanta United FC?


They are currently "owned" by the NASL, who is working with official owners Traffic Inc. (the organization at the heart of the CONCACAF bribery claims) The aspiration is to find a new owner somewhere else. If not...

Blank didn't need to buy their brand on top of the MLS expansion fee, so they're being left to their own fate.


----------



## ObiUbamba

GunnerJacket said:


> They are currently "owned" by the NASL, who is working with official owners Traffic Inc. (the organization at the heart of the CONCACAF bribery claims) The aspiration is to find a new owner somewhere else. If not...
> 
> Blank didn't need to buy their brand on top of the MLS expansion fee, so they're being left to their own fate.


How much of the fanbase do you think they will lose? I know some of the "ultra" guys will stick to the silverbacks but I feel like they will lose a few thousand casuals to the MLS.


----------



## Guest

Do Silverbacks fans have some vendetta against the new team? Youd have thought many would switch or support both teams.


----------



## GunnerJacket

There are some fans who are stalwarts in their opposition of the MLS model, or simply wide-eyed idealists concerning the NASL. To them this week's announcement just fed their perceptions.

Most, however, I suspect will shift the majority of their allegiances to the bigger brand. If the 'Backs even last that long. For the team's sake the sooner they find a new home, the better.


----------



## bd popeye

*U.S. reaches Women's World Cup semifinals with 1-0 win over China*

Lansdowne Stadium, Ottawa
Attendance: 24,141
Referee: Carina Vitulano (Italy)

I believe this game was sold out.


----------



## bd popeye

MLS attendance for 2015 thru June 21st 2015.


----------



## GunnerJacket

bd popeye said:


> *U.S. reaches Women's World Cup semifinals with 1-0 win over China*
> 
> Lansdowne Stadium, Ottawa
> Attendance: 24,141
> Referee: Carina Vitulano (Italy)
> 
> I believe this game was sold out.


Over capacity the announcers said. Best game by the US so far, tho the lack if offense is still troubling. And the amount of unforced errors still too high, IMO. Does not bode well for the match coming up versus Germany.


----------



## Rev Stickleback

Riise said:


> I prefer traditional-style names but Atlanta United is an absolute joke. It is a brand new franchise and is neither the merging of one or more clubs nor is it unifying act for parties/groups in the area. It's poor, lazy and ever so contrived.


"United", as a name, has nothing to do with clubs merging.

Sheffield United were the first United, being an offshoot of the United cricket club, which was a select XI from the cricket teams in the Sheffield area. It actually meant nothing with regards to the football club.

Manchester United adopted the name when turning professional, purely because they thought it sounded more "pro" - effectively an early example of corporate rebranding.

Several other clubs changed in a similar way when they turned pro.


----------



## Guest

Canada out! 55k to see England upset the home nation. Wonder what it will do for attendance at England v Japan, but the US Germany semi should sell out, and final will ofcourse too.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Don Garber insists NYCFC stadium will be in five boroughs, talks Red Bull rivalry

http://www.empireofsoccer.com/stadium-boroughs-rivalry-36633/


Could a new stadium lure Major League Soccer to Charlotte?

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article25590859.html


Despite hurdles, MLS commissioner wants stadium plan for Minnesota United by deadline

http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/ins...-plan-for-minnesota-united-by-deadline-062515


Sacramento takes next step on railyard hospital, soccer stadium

http://www.sacbee.com/news/business/real-estate-news/article25582168.html


----------



## Guest

Charlotte is probably the only market left worth a damn in the south east, so Im rooting for them.


----------



## Lumbergo

Charlotte would be the next logical city if they wish to expand in the southeast - would make a good rival for Atlanta.


----------



## JJG

Lumbergo said:


> Charlotte would be the next logical city if they wish to expand in the southeast - would make a good rival for Atlanta.


Outside of Florida, probably the ONLY choice. Not sure if I can see MLS in Nashville, Memphis, New Orleans, Alabama, and certainly not Mississippi.


----------



## ObiUbamba

What is the latest on the NYCFC situation? 

The sooner they get out of that baseball stadium, the better. I find it kind of unfair how new MLS teams are supposed to already have a new SSS stadium (or have one built in a few years), yet NYCFC don't seem to even have a concrete plan yet.


----------



## Bori427

Money talks


----------



## BoulderGrad

ObiUbamba said:


> What is the latest on the NYCFC situation?
> 
> The sooner they get out of that baseball stadium, the better. I find it kind of unfair how new MLS teams are supposed to already have a new SSS stadium (or have one built in a few years), yet NYCFC don't seem to even have a concrete plan yet.


That keeps getting said, but its not reeaaallllyyy true...

The motivation starting at the very top is of course that the league wants its teams to make money. Part of ensuring that is by making sure that each team has control over revenue streams. Its hard to do that when you're a secondary tenant in a stadium you don't own or operate with inappropriate facilities. Teams get bled dry by having to pay rent on those facilities and not getting to keep things like parking revenue. That kick started the whole SSS movement. Teams could build their own facilities and have all the money from them flowing directly into their bank accounts. So it did kindof become a requirement for new expansion teams, but it was never really an official or concrete requirement and some teams in special situations got to skip out on it.

So that gives us the Sounders who share an owner (and marketing team for a time) with the Seahawks, and a pretty good lease deal to use their top-flight facilities. We still have the Revolution playing in Foxboro because they have the same owner as the Patriots, and despite articles we keep seeing, they will continue to play there until Kraft finds a tax hand out worthy of building them their own facilities. And we have NYCFC starting out in Yankee stadium because even tho it is less than ideal for both parties involved, it still works out financially for them. Yes, they will want to eventually end up in their own facilities, but they got the privilege to skip that requirement at first because they're in the largest media market in the country.


----------



## Guest

JJG said:


> Outside of Florida, probably the ONLY choice. Not sure if I can see MLS in Nashville, Memphis, New Orleans, Alabama, and certainly not Mississippi.


Agreed, none of those markets are even remotely appealing. Theyre all tiny. Even Charlotte is borderline. 

After Miami, wouldnt be too bothered if MLS never considered the SE again. Tampas ok though. Getting to 30/32 is easy even without the SE.


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> Agreed, none of those markets are even remotely appealing. Theyre all tiny. Even Charlotte is borderline.


Charlotte does have a comparably wealthy populace, though, thanks to strong ties in the banking and insurance industries. So while Atlanta is decidedly larger I recall Charlotte having about only half the percentage of lower-class households, economically speaking. Think Seattle 15 years ago, demographically. 



BoulderGrad said:


> The motivation starting at the very top is of course that the league wants its teams to make money.


This. MLS will be content provided the venue is economically viable, allows the team to mostly control their own schedule, accommodates the desired advertising and doesn't feature any excessive concerns with things like gridiron lines. This is why Gillette "works" but, for example, Arrowhead did not.


----------



## Lumbergo

GunnerJacket said:


> Charlotte does have a comparably wealthy populace, though, thanks to strong ties in the banking and insurance industries. So while Atlanta is decidedly larger I recall Charlotte having about only half the percentage of lower-class households, economically speaking. Think Seattle 15 years ago, demographically.


The difference being that Charlotte (and the Carolinas in general) have Already established itself as a soccer hot bed and not just for exhibition games / friendlies. USL and NASL gets decent support in the Carolina's and that is why MLS ought to consider the area.


----------



## tinyslam

Hmm I do kind of like the AUFC badge I just still can't get over the name, but I'm sure it will grow on me. I really hope they put together a decent team though because a poor on field performance in the first few seasons would really hurt.


----------



## JJG

The Real Gazmon said:


> http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...referral&utm_content=News&utm_campaign=Unpaid


Ok logo (shield) 
Decent colors 
COMPLETELY UNORIGINAL name...


----------



## GunnerJacket

Yes, we know. That discussion has already passed 30 pages on BigSoccer.


----------



## Guest

I think its ******* great.


----------



## WesTexas

They need Black and Red horizontal strip kit. the stripes need to be no wider than a half inch. Would look amazing. Away kits white with red band going down the left chest and black at the collar and sleeve cuffs.


----------



## GunnerJacket

The team has affirmed that the uniforms have already been designed by contractual terms with Adidas prevent the release until next year. (Don't ask me why.) And based on the badge it's pretty safe to say the stripes will be vertical.


----------



## slipperydog

5portsF4n said:


> I think its ******* great.


It'll be interesting to see how LAFC reacts. They will definitely be second to Atlanta in terms of badge design release (this week) and actual play on the field (2017), so they'll have to take that into account when designing their uniforms, so as not to appear like a 'been there, done that' copycat (especially with DC United's long term hold on those colors already).

That said, LAFC did say they planned on putting various color schemes up to a vote, or consultation with supporters at the very least. At a meeting with Tom Penn a few months back, I suggested Burgundy/Gold, and provided this prototype design.


----------



## plmn

slipperydog said:


>


Not bad, but what's with the volleyball?


----------



## Bigmac1212

plmn said:


> Not bad, but what's with the volleyball?


They're planning on building on the old Los Angeles Sports Arena, and that facility may of played some volleyball matches. :nuts:


----------



## ReNaHtEiM

That's how footballs looked like 50 years ago.:lol:


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

plmn said:


> Not bad, but what's with the volleyball?


Ball looked like that in past, it's used on football logos, for instance:

Croatian FA









FC Basel









or mighty Barcelona










Love this proposal, slipperydog! Reminds of English clubs logos.


----------



## slipperydog

dinamo_zagreb said:


> Ball looked like that in past, it's used on football logos, for instance:
> 
> Love this proposal, slipperydog! Reminds of English clubs logos.


Thanks! That was my idea based on a traditional crest, but I'm actually hoping they go with something more modern. I really like the shape of the shield though, it was taken from the seal of Los Angeles and would be unique in MLS. If they can incorporate the shield on the new badge, perhaps with a modern logo inside, I would be very pleased.


----------



## vietqn5393

SJAnfield said:


> Drove by Quakes Stadium Saturday, and was amazed at how impressive it looks already. The fact the field is almost street level makes it seem rather large, and the roof is gonna give that place an incredible game day atmosphere. I cannot wait to see a game there. I love my Quakes but Buck Shaw sucks.


sounds great.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Soccer in St. Paul: Mayor pushes Snelling site for MLS stadium

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_28458274/soccer-st-paul-mayor-pushes-snelling-site-mls


Coleman on new soccer stadium site: Ex-‘bus barn’ area could anchor urban village

http://www.inforum.com/sports/37831...e-ex-bus-barn-area-could-anchor-urban-village


----------



## Guest

St Paul? Hows that downtown SSS working out for Minneapolis? Back of the queue you go, Minn. 

If Miami cant negotiate outside downtown, St Paul should be out of bounds. 

Knew MLS messed this up the minute they blew off the Wilfs.


----------



## Guest

MLS still on track for 21,000 average. Currently at 20,951.


----------



## bd popeye

5portsF4n said:


> MLS still on track for 21,000 average. Currently at 20,951.


..20,979..I believe these totals were posted 5 July 2015.


----------



## Guest

Its 20,951 now, many games played since then.


----------



## bd popeye

5portsF4n said:


> Its 20,951 now, many games played since then.


Thanks!!.. the page I use for the attendance is on wiki;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Major_League_Soccer_season

Early in the MLS season it was updated about twice a week...now who ever is updating is lagging a little.


----------



## will101

bd popeye said:


> Thanks!!.. the page I use for the attendance is on wiki;
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Major_League_Soccer_season
> 
> Early in the MLS season it was updated about twice a week...now who ever is updating is lagging a little.


I'm a Wikipedia editor, so I'll poke around a bit and see what the scoop is. If necessary, I can update the table, but I'm not sure that I'll have time to do it on a regular basis.

On a slightly different note, the average attendance of the Quakes will decline over the remainder of the season. They've already played their single games at Levi's (36,224) and Stanford (50,422), and will likely draw 18,000 per for the rest of the season at Avaya. So their final total will be 356,646, an average of 20,979. Playing an east coast expansion team (Orlando) at Levi's was a huge mistake, as that game drew 12,000 fewer people than Seattle did last year.

Update: somebody from Connecticut beat me to it, and has updated the attendance within the past hour or so. Here is the latest version:


----------



## slipperydog

LAFC just sent out a survey on the new soccer-specific stadium...some of the more interesting questions:

Which country will you cheer for in the 2018 World Cup?

How would you characterize your interest in Major League Soccer (MLS)?

Did you purchase tickets for LA Galaxy home matches this season?

On a scale of 1 to 7, with “1” being “Not Important” and “7” being “Very Important”, please indicate the importance of the following stadium amenities in your (your company’s) decision to purchase tickets at a new soccer-specific stadium.

Food options from local restaurants 
Craft brewery
In-stadium restaurant
Vegetarian / gluten-free offerings 
Mobile food and beverage ordering with in-seat delivery 
Credit card-only concession lines 
Family restrooms / baby changing areas
Shaded seating areas
Dedicated club supporter seating area
Dedicated club supporter club lounge area
Standing room-only areas
Children's play areas / child care facilities 
Premium seating options (i.e. club seats, loge boxes, luxury suites)
In-concourse club branding (i.e. logos, photos of players, etc.)
In-stadium water features (i.e. pools, hot tub, etc.)
In-stadium Wi-Fi network
Cellular phone charging stations
Ability to access instant replays/statistics from smart phone 
In-stadium Spanish simulcast
LED ribbon boards
Post-game entertainment (i.e. concerts, fireworks, etc.) 
On-site team store 
On-site night club open on matchday and non-matchdays 
Tailgating or pre-match party
Pre-match fan zones located outside the stadium 
Space to host conferences, meetings, and other events on non-matchdays

How would you describe your (your company’s) interest in purchasing season tickets located in the supporters section of a new soccer-specific stadium if the annual price was $750 per seat ($44 per game) and included tickets to all LAFC regular season home matches?

What if the annual price was $675 per seat ($40 per game)?

What if the annual price was $600 per seat ($35 per game)?

Do you purchase general season tickets to any professional or collegiate sports team(s) in the Los Angeles area?

What is the zip code of your primary residence?

What is your gender?

What race/ethnicity best describes you? (not required)

To what generation status do you identify with?

What is your age?

What is your annual household income?

What is the highest degree or level of school you have completed?

LAFC may conduct a series of focus group sessions in order to gain additional insights regarding seating options, pricing and potential amenities offered in a new soccer-specific stadium. Would you be interested in attending a focus group session?

Your input is important to us. Please include any thoughts or suggestions that you may have about the new soccer-specific stadium, or the survey, in the space provided below.


----------



## nikefutbolero

> A company that has been involved in some of the world’s largest stadium endeavors has agreed to act as project manager for a new soccer-specific stadium in downtown Sacramento.
> 
> Legends would oversee the development, planning and design of a new stadium in the downtown railyard, but only if Major League Soccer awards an expansion franchise to Sacramento.
> 
> The ownership group of third-division squad Republic FC has said it is capable of building a privately financed stadium in the railyard that could be open as early as 2018


Read more here: Link

MLS need to give a spot to a city that is ready to make it happen now.


----------



## aaronniuk

The USL awarded its 25th franchise today to the Rio Grande Valley with the announcement that Alonzo Cantu, owner of the Rio Grande Valley Vipers of the NBA Development League, will own and operate the club which will begin play in 2016.

USL Otorga Expansión al Club del Rio Grande Valley (Spanish)
The Rio Grande Valley Football Club will play at a new 10,000-seat stadium in Edinburg, part of the four-county area of South Texas that makes up the Rio Grande Valley. The region boasts a population of 1.3 million, comprising one of the nation’s youngest and fastest-growing markets.

The stadium is being modeled after the Houston Dynamo’s BBVA Compass Stadium as well as the San Jose Earthquakes’ Avaya Stadium.

“The USL is proud and excited to welcome RGVFC to our league,” USL CEO Alec Papadakis said. “We have great confidence in Alonzo Cantu, who has a proven track record in business and professional sports in the Rio Grande Valley. This vibrant economic market with a population of 1.3 million enjoys a long tradition in soccer. RGVFC is a first-class sports organization that will treat the passionate south Texas soccer fans to a state-of-the-art 10,000-seat soccer-specific stadium – *now under construction *– which surely will become a source of pride for the region.”

http://www.uslsoccer.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=32800&ATCLID=210212710


Houston Dynamo reach affiliate agreement to start USL club: "It’s an important and necessary step"

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...agreement-start-usl-club-its-important-and-ne


----------



## Bigmac1212

How fast does a Soccer-specific stadium usually get constructed? I'm just wondering when the LAFC stadium will get their facility broken into.


----------



## master_klon

aaronniuk said:


> RGVFC is a first-class sports organization that will treat the passionate south Texas soccer fans to a state-of-the-art 10,000-seat soccer-specific stadium – *now under construction *– which surely will become a source of pride for the region.”












http://www.houstondynamo.com/news/2015/07/rgvfc-awarded-usls-newest-franchise


----------



## RMB2007

master_klon said:


> http://www.houstondynamo.com/news/2015/07/rgvfc-awarded-usls-newest-franchise


Some extra images:



















https://twitter.com/USL


----------



## irving1903

RMB2007 said:


> Some extra images:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/USL


I'm surprised this is in Edinburg and not Brownsville but good to see USL expanding to The Valley. I've always felt that it's an over looked part of the state with potential !


----------



## GunnerJacket

Bigmac1212 said:


> How fast does a Soccer-specific stadium usually get constructed? I'm just wondering when the LAFC stadium will get their facility broken into.


There's no standard time frame because it depends on the site conditions and the type of construction employed. Something small in scale, using a lot of pre-fab materials and with an open site can probably be near fully erected within 12 months. Something larger, more unique and having site issues could take 2+ years.


----------



## aaronniuk

Renders look fantastic. Could well become the best stadium in the USL. 

Put stands behind the goals and you have an MLS stadium...future MLS Franchise?


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

Love it very much! :nuts:


----------



## Pellshekk

I really do have a soft spot for a lot of these MLS grounds.


----------



## Guest

Pellshekk said:


> I really do have a soft spot for a lot of these MLS grounds.


Just to clarify, the above render is most definitely *not* an MLS stadium. But if you were talking about MLS stadiums in general, then I agree :cheers:


----------



## slipperydog

Beckham's group has secured a stadium deal to build a new facility next to Marlins Park

https://twitter.com/dkaplanSBJ/status/622074776308293632


----------



## bd popeye

slipperydog said:


> Beckham's group has secured a stadium deal to build a new facility next to Marlins Park
> 
> https://twitter.com/dkaplanSBJ/status/622074776308293632


I'm sure Mr Beckham thinks he has a stadium deal in place..I for one will believe it when I see it.


----------



## GunnerJacket

If it's the property on/adjacent to Marlins Park that has been mentioned before then it's something that's all government owned and they'd likely have an easy time with those permits and agreements. Assuming they never play the same day as the Marlins then parking might not be too big an issue as they can use the Marlins' deck. The big questions then become the logistics of the site (very tight fit) and how well the neighborhood will respond. 

My concern is that, judging by the comments from many in the area Little Havana has long been neglected as a community, especially as the Marlins Park project was done rather half-arsed and without any additional redevelopment in the area. So does this become part of a mitigation effort and cure or simply another item dumped onto the back-end of the city?


----------



## Bori427

aaronniuk said:


> Renders look fantastic. Could well become the best stadium in the USL.
> 
> Put stands behind the goals and you have an MLS stadium...future MLS Franchise?


In the Rio Grande Valley? lol


----------



## JJG

aaronniuk said:


> Renders look fantastic. Could well become the best stadium in the USL.
> 
> Put stands behind the goals and you have an MLS stadium...future MLS Franchise?


There are about 5 other cities in Texas that would get an MLS franchise over the Rio Grande Valley, and this state wont get more than 3 (with San Antonio being the 3rd) anytime soon...


----------



## Pellshekk

5portsF4n said:


> Just to clarify, the above render is most definitely *not* an MLS stadium. But if you were talking about MLS stadiums in general, then I agree :cheers:



Yeah, sorry, I should have said the new generation of US soccer grounds in general, of which MLS grounds are a part.


----------



## slipperydog

From @LAFCPodcast:
More detail next episode, but if safe standing isn't a Major part of the stadium, blame the city not the club. #LAFC #safestanding #MLS










It's hard to read, but at the bottom of the slide, it says that the stadium should be ready to break ground in spring 2016.


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> From @LAFCPodcast:
> More detail next episode, but if safe standing isn't a Major part of the stadium, blame the city not the club. #LAFC #safestanding #MLS
> ...
> 
> It's hard to read, but at the bottom of the slide, it says that the stadium should be ready to break ground in spring 2016.


Good for LAFC. And even if this would mean they debut in a different venue they'll at least have physical construction already underway, unlike the New York Manchesters. :colgate:


----------



## Lakeland

Fifth division, 5,000 fans? Grand Rapids FC packs 'em in for season finale
http://www.mlssoccer.com/sideline/n...grand-rapids-fc-packs-em-season-finale-sideli

It's good to see the game growing at every level.


----------



## Lumbergo

That's great. I love that there has been such a huge surge in interest in the other leagues lately. I think there is definitely enough room in North America for others besides just MLS. and of course some markets will simply not be served by MLS and that is where you will see these lower leagues thrive.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Gimenez on MLS: ‘It’s Up to The City of Miami’

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2015/07/20/gimenez-on-mls-its-up-to-the-city-of-miami/


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

Record crowd last night at the LA Galaxy vs Bacelona game at the Rose Bowl in Pasadena. Largest crowd ever for a game involving an MLS team, 93,226


----------



## The Game Is Up

D.C. United survey asks if you want a $1000 supporters season ticket

http://www.blackandredunited.com/st.../dc-united-season-ticket-prices-buzzard-point


David Beckham MLS Stadium May Kick Residents Out of Homes

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/...ay-Kick-Residents-Out-of-Homes-317965321.html


----------



## cbk1128

LAFC Stadium design I found on Rossetti's website.









More renderings: http://www.rossetti.com/projects/sports/LAFC-Stadium


----------



## SounderBruce

Liking the wall on the outside, not liking the wall of exec boxes (just like Levis in Santa Clara).


----------



## bd popeye

SounderBruce said:


> Liking the wall on the outside, not liking the wall of exec boxes (just like Levis in Santa Clara).


So many luxury boxes..Why? Tons of high rollers & big time execs in LA. Just my opinion. Money talks...


----------



## krudmonk

SounderBruce said:


> Liking the wall on the outside, not liking the wall of exec boxes (just like Levis in Santa Clara).


All stadia have boxes so what the hell does it matter what form they're in? Have enough seats for the average fan, and anything else is gravy.


----------



## Guest

Maybe SounderBruce isn't a fan of the way its done. You can have executive boxes without arranging them in that manner, making them look like an apartment building. 

I actually really like the whole Bombonera (Boca Juniors) vibe its got going on though.


----------



## GunnerJacket

SounderBruce said:


> Liking the wall on the outside, not liking the wall of exec boxes (just like Levis in Santa Clara).


I'm okay with it on one side, but two tends to push the limits for me. Overall it's an intriguing design, and there are a lot of elements about the whole development that I like. My biggest concern, however, would be the likelihood that they're restricting options for expansion on an otherwise spacious property.

As a whole, however, I'd be happy to see that in the league.


krudmonk said:


> All stadia have boxes so what the hell does it matter what form they're in? Have enough seats for the average fan, and anything else is gravy.


I can't speak for bruce but many of us prefer venues that showcase the average fan from the field. Or as I like to call it, a wall of true fans. The ones whole more likely stand, cheer and build the spirit of the venue. 

Everyone knows the boxes are a necessity, but their prominence from the field can be somewhat depressing. I imagine a stadium with almost all premium suites, near deathly silent, and you can hear the conversations among the audience. *shudder*

Much like many fans appreciate college venues over NFL.


----------



## carnifex2005

Just to remind everyone, those aren't the real designs for the LAFC stadium. Gensler won the bid, not Rossetti.

http://www.gensler.com/projects/los-angeles-football-club-stadium


----------



## The Game Is Up

The revival of Major League Soccer in California

http://www.aol.com/article/2015/07/22/the-revival-of-major-league-soccer-in-california/21210960/


Soccer stadium: United owner tells St. Paul he wants 25 more acres for development

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_28529290/soccer-stadium-united-owner-tells-st-paul-he


Charlotte sports exec: Landing an MLS team 'pretty realistic'

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlott...e-sports-exec-landing-an-mls-team-pretty.html


----------



## cbk1128

carnifex2005 said:


> Just to remind everyone, those aren't the real designs for the LAFC stadium. Gensler won the bid, not Rossetti.
> 
> http://www.gensler.com/projects/los-angeles-football-club-stadium


Apologies for not mentioning that. Rossetti's design was another losing competition entry, just as the Meis design that was posted a while back.


----------



## RMB2007

cbk1128 said:


> LAFC Stadium design I found on Rossetti's website.
> 
> 
> 
> More renderings: http://www.rossetti.com/projects/sports/LAFC-Stadium


Would've been like the exterior of their LA Lakers HQ design:


----------



## cbk1128

RMB2007 said:


> Would've been like the exterior of their LA Lakers HQ design:


Definitely. It wouldn't surprise me if they just recycled the design once their LAFC stadium was rejected.


----------



## You are to blame

cbk1128 said:


> LAFC Stadium design I found on Rossetti's website.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More renderings: http://www.rossetti.com/projects/sports/LAFC-Stadium



That is the rejected design

Below is the current design


----------



## cbk1128

You are to blame said:


> That is the rejected design
> 
> Below is the current design


Yeah, we mentioned that Rossetti's was the rejected design earlier in the thread. However, this is an outdated design for the New York Cosmos stadium, not LAFC's current one.


----------



## carnifex2005

Rumor out of Orlando, renderings of the new Orlando City stadium will be released on Thursday. 26,400 in size. No roof over corners of stadium. 2017 opening date.


----------



## aaronniuk

USL Expanding to Reno, Nevada

http://scratchingthepitch.com/2015/07/26/usl-to-expand-to-reno-in-2016/

Its only a matter of time before this league has 40 teams and possibly a few more in less desirable locations...I'm thinking Montana and other states along the border.


----------



## carnifex2005

No, just purely a training facility.


----------



## RMB2007

> *The Krafts have brought in a financial heavy hitter for a soccer stadium plan*
> 
> The Kraft family, which owns the New England Patriots and New England Revolution, is working with investment banking giant Goldman Sachs to finance a soccer stadium in Boston. Representatives of the Krafts most recently met with city officials in early July.
> 
> Goldman Sachs has developed a reputation in sports circles as a hub of venue financing deals. Before he got to Goldman Sachs, the leader of its stadium financing team worked with the Krafts to help finance Gillette Stadium, according to a January profile by Bloomberg.


www.boston.com/business/news/2015/0...tadium-plan/75FQsSLG5OJO8wCPgu8g7L/story.html


----------



## GunnerJacket

MikeC9180 said:


> It looks to be a fantastic facility but is its purpose to be purely a training facility or is that stadium expandable to create a football (soccer) specific stadium away from the new Falcons stadium in the future?


Since Blank (essentially) owns the new dome and wants this team to help fill the event roster for that it's unlikely they'd ever relocate. What's more, they'd need more land for a stadium, necessitating the relocation of the prison, and even though there is rail access to the site I'd wager it's not located in the most accessible spot in relation to the bulk of soccer fans in Atlanta. Too far east for that.



RMB2007 said:


> www.boston.com/business/news/2015/0...tadium-plan/75FQsSLG5OJO8wCPgu8g7L/story.html


Well this is a pleasant surprise. That would imply they're taking the welfare of the team and its fans seriously. For a change. :cheers:


----------



## noize

5portsF4n said:


> Looks like that mini-stadium could host USL.


And Open Cup matches.


----------



## Guest

GunnerJacket said:


> Since Blank (essentially) owns the new dome and wants this team to help fill the event roster for that it's unlikely they'd ever relocate. What's more, they'd need more land for a stadium, necessitating the relocation of the prison, and even though there is rail access to the site I'd wager it's not located in the most accessible spot in relation to the bulk of soccer fans in Atlanta. Too far east for that.
> 
> Well this is a pleasant surprise. That would imply they're taking the welfare of the team and its fans seriously. For a change. :cheers:


Is it season ticket renewal time at NE already?


----------



## bd popeye

> The Krafts have brought in a financial heavy hitter for a soccer stadium plan


LOL! anybody ever read the very first post in this thread?

*posted 17 July 2006..*



yure323 said:


> http://www.cityofboston.gov/news/default.aspx?ID=3225
> _Boston is honored and proud to be recruited by Major League Soccer to be the potential home for the New England Revolution,” said Mayor Thomas M. Menino. “This is a fantastic opportunity for our city and our neighborhoods, but it will require a throughout exploration of possible sites – we need to make sure this works for Boston residents.” _
> Do you think there's any chance to get past NIMBY's in Boston ?


Hey I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale..anyone interested??


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> Looks like that mini-stadium could host USL.


I expect it will also host a lot of youth tournaments as the team looks to build a rapport with regional leagues, to help with scouting and building fan support.



bd popeye said:


> LOL! anybody ever read the very first post in this thread?


Okay, that's seriously funny! And depressing.







Killjoy! :tongue2:


----------



## Jim856796

*New England Revolution Focused on Downtown Boston Stadium?*

Personally, I have been thinking about a new soccer-specific stadium for the New England Revolution for several years, and this may finally become a reality soon. All indicators suggest that it's going to be located south of Downtown Boston. The desired location was selected last year.

Source: StadimDB.com (some info compiled from Boston.com).


----------



## willygtoc

Jim856796 said:


> *New England Revolution Focused on Downtown Boston Stadium?*
> 
> Personally, I have been thinking about a new soccer-specific stadium for the New England Revolution for several years, and this may finally become a reality soon. All indicators suggest that it's going to be located south of Downtown Boston. The desired location was selected last year.
> 
> Source: StadimDB.com (some info compiled from Boston.com).




Seems like the land it's too narrow.


----------



## will101

willygtoc said:


> Seems like the land it's too narrow.


That is a brutally narrow patch of land. And the amount of infrastructure that would have to be removed is huge, including offices for the Massachusetts Bay Transit Authority, and the Boston Transportation Department. They will even have to demolish a parking garage, which you would assume that they would want to keep, if it was in a better location.

But one thing that helps is the freeway to the west is elevated, so there is access under there, and room for a lot of parking.


----------



## carnifex2005

18,227 showed up at Findley Stadium in Chattanooga, Tennessee to watch the NPSL final (USSF 4th Division). Amazing. New York Cosmos B beat Chattanooga FC 3-2 to take the final.


----------



## master_klon

From 2 weeks back:



> LAFC moves forward with new soccer stadium
> 
> As the project continues to move ahead, the Los Angeles Football Club announced to the Coliseum Commission that they have selected Legends to oversee project management for the new venue and PCL Construction Services, Inc. (PCL) as general contractor to build the to-be-developed state-of-the-art soccer stadium in South Los Angeles... Legends and PCL Construction were selected for this venture based on their extensive industry experience and knowledge at a global level. Together these leading firms have proven expertise on similar large and complex structures. Construction management work has already begun and PCL Construction is working on sight assessments and other analysis in keeping with necessary pre-construction activity, ensuring preparations are well underway. Construction is still expected to commence Fall 2016.


----------



## GunnerJacket

carnifex2005 said:


> 18,227 showed up at Findley Stadium in Chattanooga, Tennessee to watch the NPSL final (USSF 4th Division). Amazing. New York Cosmos B beat Chattanooga FC 3-2 to take the final.


Sorry the home folks left unhappy, but still... :applause:



master_klon said:


> From 2 weeks back:
> 
> LAFC moves forward with new soccer stadium...


Just so I'm clear, there is still no confirmed final design, correct?


----------



## pesto

master_klon said:


> From 2 weeks back:


Just a minor point. This is not "South Los Angeles" in the sense that Compton or Willowbrook are; they are about 6-8 miles south. Or even Inglewood, which is about 6 miles south-west.

This is adjacent to the Coliseum, the old Olympic swim stadium, museums and the USC campus. This is now almost part of downtown with the growth of multi-story housing and walkable neighborhoods down Fig and along Jefferson.

However, it is true that this marks the south end of redevelopment so far.


----------



## slipperydog

Really don't want to get this thread onto a massive promotion-relegation tangent, but the NASL commissioner intends to explore the possibility with the NPSL.

Other expansion news from the article: Miami, Puerto Rico are in for 2016; OKC, Virginia are out; announcements on West Coast teams expected soon; plans to expand to 20 within next two years.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...romotion-and-relegation-in-North-America.html


----------



## will101

GunnerJacket said:


> Just so I'm clear, there is still no confirmed final design, correct?


Correct. And I'm willing to bet that the "final" design won't pop up until right around the time they finish clearing the rubble from the old Sports Arena. For example: it doesn't make any sense to have a final design now, and when digging starts in a year or so, realizing that plan requires $50 million more than you have available.


----------



## bd popeye

*MLS attendance thru 9 August 2015..*


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> Really don't want to get this thread onto a massive promotion-relegation tangent, but the NASL commissioner intends to explore the possibility with the NPSL.


Considering the two leagues are built on differing premises and price points for the owners I would consider this a shocking development, save for two things: 1) NASL is simply trying to endear themselves to the US footie fans who are devoted to Pro/Rel; 2) More importantly, NASL knows they need more teams in order to retain their DII status with USSF. To wit...


> Other expansion news from the article: Miami, Puerto Rico are in for 2016; OKC, Virginia are out; announcements on West Coast teams expected soon; plans to expand to 20 within next two years.


OKC is likely dead now that USL teams are alive in the area. Thus far it appears Atlanta won't be around next season unless the league is willing to run the franchise, and likely take a financial hit or run them at rock bottom salaries. Minnesota United will likely be around for 1 more year and possibly 2, but are gone after that. The newly conceived Canadian league to be cosponsored by the CFL is now applying pressure on the Ottawa and Edmonton franchises to join them when kicking off next season, as their business plan would garner more $ if they could land two established franchises.

Worst case scenario is they have only 9 teams come 2017, 3 short of the DII requirement. Even if they do keep the Canadian duo they'll be shy of 12 and they still need 1 west coast team, as well. They've had difficulty finding an investor to float the bill since their closest opponents would likely be Edmonton or San Antonio.


----------



## GunnerJacket

bd popeye said:


> *MLS attendance thru 9 August 2015..*


If this holds out EVERY _team_ will have an average about the 5 worst _league_ averages in MLS history! At its nadir MLS had 10 teams and an average around 14k. Now the league has 10 teams averaging above 20k, and all the rest still above the old marks! :banana:


----------



## pesto

will101 said:


> Correct. And I'm willing to bet that the "final" design won't pop up until right around the time they finish clearing the rubble from the old Sports Arena. For example: it doesn't make any sense to have a final design now, and when digging starts in a year or so, realizing that plan requires $50 million more than you have available.


Wouldn't be surprised to see the cost rise. With the entertainment and sports heavies among ownership, I am curious to see their thoughts on potential revenue and brand exposure ideas. You are in a park that attracts millions of people a year, next to USC, and soon both SC and the NFL playing football next door (for 2 years at least). Moreover, three short stops by light-rail from the Convention Center and downtown. 

They are already talking about a first-of-its-kind soccer museum but it will be interesting what else comes along.


----------



## GunnerJacket

I just hope wherever the Minn team plays they give us something sharp, architecturally. A soccer equivalent of Target Field would be sweet!


----------



## Hia-leah JDM

> *Miami FC soccer team unveils logo, shield for inaugural season*
> 
> BY MICHELLE KAUFMAN
> [email protected]
> While David Beckham negotiates with Miami-Dade leaders for a Major League Soccer stadium, the city’s other new professional team, Miami FC, took a step toward its inaugural 2016 season by unveiling its logo and shield.
> 
> Miami FC, which will play in the NASL (the same league as the Fort Lauderdale Strikers), begins play April 2016. *The home stadium has not been announced, but sources indicated it most matches will be at Florida International University.*
> 
> The team colors are orange and blue, with a hint of aqua. Orange is for the city’s energy, blue and aqua for the water and sky. The design is Art Deco, a tribute to the area’s distinct architecture.
> 
> “Our mission with Miami FC is to connect with Miami’s communities through the global language of soccer,” said Antonio Barreto, CEO of Miami FC. “We wanted to make sure the badge and seal drew inspiration from the distinctive character that makes the city great, and we also wanted to create something that was truly representative of Miami’s dynamic spirit.”
> 
> The team is owned by sports media magnate Riccardo Silva. Former Italian star Paolo Maldini, a part-time Miami resident for 15 years, is a co-owner and will be in charge of personnel and player development.


*FIU Stadium*


----------



## will101

This team has the best logo and shield that I have seen in quite a while. Easily better than anything in MLS lately.


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

Nice logo, reminds me of Caribbean Football Union logo though. 

Good luck, Mr. Maldini!


----------



## BS3_RED

Just a quick question to the US soccer/football fans.

Having three different tiers of football, MLS, NASL and USL. What is the difference in standard and would you prefer a European system of promotion and relegation between the divisions?


----------



## HB07

BS3_RED said:


> Just a quick question to the US soccer/football fans. Having three different tiers of football, MLS, NASL and USL. What is the difference in standard and would you prefer a European system of promotion and relegation between the divisions?


I think a system of promotion/relegation could be very positive for the MLS and could attract more fans


----------



## Cjones2451

HB07 said:


> I think a system of promotion/relegation could be very positive for the MLS and could attract more fans


Its been discussed extensively on this forum, its not going to happen in MLS. Owners are paying $80-100M expansion fees, while NASL owners are paying a fraction of that franchise. Its not like Europe where these teams have been around for 100 years. Soccer is not the #1 sport, so fans would lose interest as well.


----------



## bd popeye

Cjones2451 said:


> Its been discussed extensively on this forum, its not going to happen in MLS. Owners are paying $80-100M expansion fees, while NASL owners are paying a fraction of that franchise. Its not like Europe where these teams have been around for 100 years. Soccer is not the #1 sport, so fans would lose interest as well.


Exactly...we've discussed this NUMEROUS times in this thread. 



HB07 said:


> I think a system of promotion/relegation could be very positive for the MLS and could attract more fans





BS3_RED said:


> Just a quick question to the US soccer/football fans.
> 
> Having three different tiers of football, MLS, NASL and USL. What is the difference in standard and would you prefer a European system of promotion and relegation between the divisions?


Read those promotion/relegation post....

 Soccer Stadiums of the USA and Canada..promotion/relegation discussion


----------



## ielag

will101 said:


> This team has the best logo and shield that I have seen in quite a while. Easily better than anything in MLS lately.


Not better than the new Columbus Crew logo imo, way better than SJ's for sure.


----------



## bd popeye

ielag said:


> Not better than the new Columbus Crew logo imo, way better than SJ's for sure.


Columbus Crew Shield



SJ Earthquakes Shield


----------



## will101

ielag said:


> Not better than the new Columbus Crew logo imo, way better than SJ's for sure.


The logo for the Quakes is definitely in the lower half of domestic soccer logos, but the Crew logo is at the bottom of the list. It looks like someone swatted a wasp with the paper.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Hennepin County to Minnesota United: We're ready to work with you on soccer stadium

http://www.startribune.com/hennepin...occer-we-re-ready-to-work-with-you/321928361/


----------



## eMKay

BS3_RED said:


> Just a quick question to the US soccer/football fans.
> 
> Having three different tiers of football, MLS, NASL and USL. What is the difference in standard and would you prefer a European system of promotion and relegation between the divisions?


When are the Europeans going to realize Promotion/Relegation is an unfair and stupid system, and drop it?


----------



## 3tmk

eMKay said:


> When are the Europeans going to realize Promotion/Relegation is an unfair and stupid system, and drop it?


As unfair as having a franchise pack up and leave on a whim, or lose all of their games and be rewarded for it? 

Anyway, that Miami logo screams generic 1970s. I wouldn't be surprised if they changed it within the next 5 years


----------



## GunnerJacket

I'd be surprised if they're still around in 5 years.


----------



## Guest

eMKay said:


> When are the Europeans going to realize Promotion/Relegation is an unfair and stupid system, and drop it?


Its likely to happen in the lower tiers from what Im reading. Could have pro rel between divisions outside MLS. Id like to see mls affiliated teams become involved, ala B teams in Spain or Germany.

A pro rel system in lower divisions with teams averaging 5-15k could be really great. We're already seeing very healthy attendance in lower tiers.


----------



## irani8

eMKay said:


> When are the Europeans going to realize Promotion/Relegation is an unfair and stupid system, and drop it?


its a great money maker for teams at the bottom of the table, if there was no pro/rel system they would have nothing to play for and fans would not show. i suppose you aren't familiar with the final day of the epl, in my opinion watching the games that decide relegation are far more exciting than those involving big clubs. im not saying it would work in america, but it works pretty much EVERYWHERE else, clubs are ok with it and so are the fans


----------



## Riise

eMKay said:


> When are the Europeans going to realize Promotion/Relegation is an unfair and stupid system, and drop it?


How is it unfair? Should they drop their market-driven approach and adopt a cartel model instead?


----------



## GunnerJacket

Guys, 

Because it's an often heated issue that won't be resolved here, this isn't the place for this discussion. Move along or deal with it via private messages. Thanks.


----------



## aaronniuk

A development group is pitching the city of Las Vegas on a plan to convert Cashman Field into a professional soccer venue as the first step to attracting a Major League Soccer franchise to Sin City.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/group-proposes-transforming-cashman-field-soccer-venue


----------



## Bigmac1212

aaronniuk said:


> A development group is pitching the city of Las Vegas on a plan to convert Cashman Field into a professional soccer venue as the first step to attracting a Major League Soccer franchise to Sin City.
> 
> http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/group-proposes-transforming-cashman-field-soccer-venue


What about the current minor league team, the 51's, doing at Cashman Field?


----------



## ielag

I think if Vegas wants a chance at an MLS team, an ownership group will need to start in the NASL or USL first and put up some big attendance numbers.


----------



## weava

Bigmac1212 said:


> What about the current minor league team, the 51's, doing at Cashman Field?


They have been talking about building a new baseball stadium in Vegas for a few years. This stadium could be vacant within a few years.


----------



## Lumbergo

aaronniuk said:


> A development group is pitching the city of Las Vegas on a plan to convert Cashman Field into a professional soccer venue as the first step to attracting a Major League Soccer franchise to Sin City.
> 
> http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/group-proposes-transforming-cashman-field-soccer-venue





















actually looks like a good place to watch a game.:cheers:


----------



## aaronniuk

The article suggests that the 51's will be moving to a new stadium.

As it is Cashman Field is the perfect shape for football.

You could move the field right into the corner on home plate and extend one of the sides to the full length of a football pitch. You'd have to remove the spectator swimming pool though.


----------



## The Game Is Up

*Goodman Stadium gets pro soccer team*

http://www.mcall.com/sports/mc-breaking-pro-soccer-in-bethlehem-08192015-20150819-story.html


Sacramento Republic FC hires architect for MLS stadium

http://www.sacbee.com/sports/mls/article31509566.html


St. Paul fed-financed land might hinder pro-soccer stadium deal

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_28659465/st-paul-fed-owned-land-might-hinder-pro?source=blurb


State of play: How Bill McGuire and MLS are likely to get everything they ever wanted in a soccer stadium

https://www.minnpost.com/politics-p...-mls-are-likely-get-everything-they-ever-want


----------



## aaronniuk

Interview with Cosmos chairman Seamus O'Brien:

In early 2013, the club submitted a privately funded proposal to the State of New York for a $400m, 25,000-seat stadium at Belmont Park, Queens. The plans include a 175-room hotel, four acres of park space, nine restaurants, and a large deal of retail space, which, the club say, will bring a number of jobs to the area – 500 in construction, and 3,000 permanent. More than two-and-a-half years on, the Cosmos are still waiting on the state’s decision on the proposals.

http://www.theguardian.com/football...-new-york-cosmos-chairman-seamus-obriens-side


----------



## GunnerJacket

The Game Is Up said:


> *Goodman Stadium gets pro soccer team*
> 
> http://www.mcall.com/sports/mc-breaking-pro-soccer-in-bethlehem-08192015-20150819-story.html


Odd that Philly is breaking ties with the Harrisonburg USL franchise just to put one in Lehigh. Hmmm. Hope H'burg sticks around.


----------



## tinyslam

Lol Harrisonburg? I think you added a few letters Gunner. It's Harrisburg the capital of PA. I hope the City Islanders stick around too, they play on an island in the Susquehanna river that has great views of the city.


----------



## pesto

aaronniuk said:


> Interview with Cosmos chairman Seamus O'Brien:
> 
> In early 2013, the club submitted a privately funded proposal to the State of New York for a $400m, 25,000-seat stadium at Belmont Park, Queens. The plans include a 175-room hotel, four acres of park space, nine restaurants, and a large deal of retail space, which, the club say, will bring a number of jobs to the area – 500 in construction, and 3,000 permanent. More than two-and-a-half years on, the Cosmos are still waiting on the state’s decision on the proposals.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/football...-new-york-cosmos-chairman-seamus-obriens-side


As was expected. 

With the big money now looking to come in, the leagues should continue and hopefully do well. But the ultimate goal is the US "Premier League" (formally or informally) and a big payday in the international market.

Should be a few horses in the NY race.


----------



## aaronniuk

tinyslam said:


> Lol Harrisonburg? I think you added a few letters Gunner. It's Harrisburg the capital of PA. I hope the City Islanders stick around too, they play on an island in the Susquehanna river that has great views of the city.












The stadium is in pretty poor condition but there are some plans...

Harrisburg, May 26, 2015 – The parent company of the Harrisburg City Islanders, the Harrisburg Capital Soccer, Inc. have applied for grant funding through the Redevelopment Assistance Capital Program (RACP) administered by the Office of the Budget under Governor Tom Wolf. The Harrisburg City Islanders are committed to making every possible effort to make the stadium project a reality. The $5 million grant application was written with assistance from Delta Development and the Capital Region Economic Development Corporation (CREDC) and was delivered to the Office of the Budget on May 18, 2015.

The Harrisburg City Islanders Multi-use Stadium project meets all RACP eligibility requirements. Harrisburg Capital Soccer, Inc. is requesting $5 million in RACP funding for the proposed scope of work and will provide a match in non-state funds. The total cost of the project is $13.9 million. Design of the project is scheduled to begin on July 6, 2015 and will be completed by August 21, 2015. Construction is scheduled to start on May 9, 2016 and is scheduled to be completed by May 5, 2017.


----------



## SounderBruce

The Philadelphia Union are putting a USL team in Bethlehem, PA and apparently do own the necessary trademarks for "Bethlehem Steel FC". I'm hyped.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/artic...ounce-expansion-team-bethlehem-pa-2016-season

https://twitter.com/thegoalkeeper/status/634099683955183620


----------



## The Game Is Up

D.C. United stadium project hints at future changes at the club

http://www.blackandredunited.com/opinion/2015/8/20/9183351/dc-united-stadium-sale-sell-team


Here's Why MLS Should Put A Ring on Sacramento

http://americansoccernow.com/articles/here-s-why-mls-should-put-a-ring-on-sacramento


New York City Declines to Fight in Court for Complex Near Citi Field

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/20/n...n-court-for-complex-near-citi-field.html?_r=1



> The developers recently proposed allowing a professional soccer club — New York City F.C. — that has been looking for a permanent home to build a soccer stadium next to Citi Field in return for a housing fund.


 
Report: New York City F.C. pursuit of Flushing Stadium on shaky ground

http://www.empireofsoccer.com/pursuit-flushing-stadium-39028/


----------



## bd popeye

SounderBruce said:


> The Philadelphia Union are putting a USL team in Bethlehem, PA and apparently do own the necessary trademarks for "Bethlehem Steel FC". I'm hyped.


Now that is a great name...

Bethlehem Steel

I just looked it up and there was a soccer team with that same name from 1907 to 1930..who knew??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethlehem_Steel_F.C.


----------



## SounderBruce

bd popeye said:


> Now that is a great name...
> 
> Bethlehem Steel
> 
> I just looked it up and there was a soccer team with that same name from 1907 to 1930..who knew??
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethlehem_Steel_F.C.


Well, anyone who's taken a slight interest in the history of the U.S. Open Cup. They're still the kings (5 wins), decades after disbanding.

American soccer has a rich history that really needs to be brought out to shut up the naysayers. Did you know that an American scored the first ever World Cup hat-trick?


----------



## Guest

pesto said:


> As was expected.
> 
> With the big money now looking to come in, the leagues should continue and hopefully do well. But the ultimate goal is the US "Premier League" (formally or informally) and a big payday in the international market.
> 
> Should be a few horses in the NY race.


I can't actually tell what you're talking about. If you're referring to NASL in any capacity, which I imagine you are, then geez... good luck with that. 

MLS will crush NASL. Wait, let me rephrase that. MLS has crushed NASL. There is no hope for NASL becoming anything other than a breeding ground for future MLS teams. Beyond that, it's a league with 5k averages as its benchmark, and nothing else. 

Cosmos can yap away all they like, but they'd cut their left testicle off for admission into MLS. They got no money though, which is why they're spearheading a 'cheaper way'.


----------



## bd popeye

SounderBruce said:


> Well, anyone who's taken a slight interest in the history of the U.S. Open Cup. They're still the kings (5 wins), decades after disbanding.
> 
> American soccer has a rich history that really needs to be brought out to shut up the naysayers. Did you know that an American scored the first ever World Cup hat-trick?


Thank you SounderBruce. I had no idea. As I've stated many times I'm no soccer fan..just a stadium fan.

I do want soccer to succeed in the US as a real major sport.


----------



## boybanhbeo

The Harrisburg City Islanders Multi-use Stadium project meets all RACP eligibility requirements


----------



## GunnerJacket

tinyslam said:


> Lol Harrisonburg? I think you added a few letters Gunner. It's Harrisburg the capital of PA. I hope the City Islanders stick around too, they play on an island in the Susquehanna river that has great views of the city.


LOL! Yeah, my bad. Harris_on_burg, VA is also on I-81 a couple hours south of Harrisburg, PA. It's a route I've driven so much back and forth between GA and NY that both cities roll of the tongue too easily, apparently! What can I say other than "spoo!" 

Well, here's to hoping the _Harrisburg_ Islanders continue to thrive! :cheers:


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Rayo Vallecano set to buy into the NASL expansion franchize of Oklahoma City: http://www.espnfc.com/north-america...backs-rayo-vallecano-nasl-investment-proposal

That came out of nowhere!


----------



## GunnerJacket

Since the OKC Energy are already playing in USL I'm filing this one under the "Believe it when I see it" category.


----------



## aaronniuk

Could Oklahoma support an NASL and USL team?

If i understand it, Rayo have purchased the franchise so in theory could move the team to another city?


----------



## Guest

MLS teams now worth an average of $157 million according to Forbes. That's up by 50% since 2013. Seattle tops the list at $245 million.


----------



## The Game Is Up

*San Antonio mayor says city is pursuing MLS expansion opportunities*

http://www.bizjournals.com/sananton...-antonio-mayor-says-city-is-pursuing-mls.html


*MLS bid likely requires owner beyond Charlotte*

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlott...d-likely-requires-owner-beyond-charlotte.html


----------



## HB07

^^ What about Mickey Mouse ?


----------



## pesto

5portsF4n said:


> MLS teams now worth an average of $157 million according to Forbes. That's up by 50% since 2013. Seattle tops the list at $245 million.


Unfortunately, their methodology is backward looking and often horribly wrong (it would be very accurate if time moved backwards). Most of the real value is in the big cities where the huge money is starting to come in.

They are correct in saying that the drivers of value here are bigger audiences, the willingness of well-heeled owners to spend money on big names, glitzy stadiums and bold ventures.


----------



## HB07

Orlando City Sells Out New Season Ticket Inventory for 2016

ORLANDO (August 18, 2015) – Orlando City SC today announced that it has sold out its Season Ticket inventory for the 2016 Major League Soccer (MLS) season and opened a waitlist for 2017 Season Tickets. With 18,000 Season Ticket Members, Orlando City ranks among the top three teams in MLS, and among only four clubs with an established waitlist.

http://www.orlandocitysc.com/post/2015/08/18/orlando-city-sells-out-new-season-ticket-inventory-2016


----------



## Guest

pesto said:


> Unfortunately, their methodology is backward looking and often horribly wrong (it would be very accurate if time moved backwards). Most of the real value is in the big cities where the huge money is starting to come in.
> 
> They are correct in saying that the drivers of value here are bigger audiences, the willingness of well-heeled owners to spend money on big names, glitzy stadiums and bold ventures.


I'll take their word over yours any day of the week. Their methodology is consistent with other sports properties. Do I think it's silly that they count tax payer funded NFL stadiums when calculating the value of NFL teams? Yep, I do. But that's how it is.

Either way, MLS team values are up appreciably since the mid 2000s. You dont have to be Forbes to realise that.


----------



## The Game Is Up

St. Paul, Minneapolis mayors talk soccer on TPT’s Almanac. You’ll never believe what happened next 

http://blogs.twincities.com/cityhal...manac-youll-never-believe-what-happened-next/


----------



## pesto

5portsF4n said:


> I'll take their word over yours any day of the week. Their methodology is consistent with other sports properties. Do I think it's silly that they count tax payer funded NFL stadiums when calculating the value of NFL teams? Yep, I do. But that's how it is.
> 
> Either way, MLS team values are up appreciably since the mid 2000s. You dont have to be Forbes to realise that.


You would be making a horrible mistake. And for sure you wouldn't get any VC or investor funding. I have been very close to the purchase process on multi-billion dollar acquisitions and deal guys have no idea what Forbes' opinion on values are because backward looking stats are the starting point for analysis; the low-hanging fruit that any schmuck with a NPV calculator can analyze.

I agree that values are going up in all sports leagues. But the particular teams going up and the amounts are not consistent with Forbes methodology. The focus should be on what can be done after the purchase to make this a more valuable property. And that answer is basically: brand development and control, better exploitation of the brand through aggressive world-wide marketing, cross-industry JV's, etc. Plus things I can't even think of but people are working on right now.


----------



## aaronniuk

http://www.calgarynext.com/multisport-fieldhouse-stadium.php

Taken from the Canadian Stadium Dev page -CalgaryNEXT Multisport Fieldhouse Stadium has provision for a soccer field.

Professional football returned to Calgary this year in the form of a PDL team - Calgary Foothills Football Club.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Governor Dayton and Majority Leader Tom Bakk Throw Support Behind Tax Exemption for MLS Stadium

http://northernpitch.com/_/minnesot...ort-behind-tax-exemption-for-mls-stadium-r482


Time nearly up for Minneapolis soccer stadium land

http://www.startribune.com/time-nearly-up-for-minneapolis-soccer-stadium-land/323273301/


Vision of Sacramento's potential MLS future takes shape

http://www.kcra.com/news/vision-of-sacramentos-potential-mls-future-takes-shape/34943092


----------



## BoulderGrad

Minnesota United wrapping up stadium and practice facility deals with St Paul and Blaine, MN respectively:

http://www.startribune.com/soccer-t...-for-st-paul-sources-say/324025811/?section=/


----------



## GunnerJacket

^^ Sounds good. I like St. Paul, and turning their existing facility into the training grounds sounds a natural fit, too. I betcha this crowd will match the success of RSL, dontcha know.

(Back before the United gained their current name I thought St. Paul Aurora would be a good name.)

If they host a women's team a la Portland, wonder if they'll be called the St. Paulie Girls?!


----------



## Guest

In terms of distance it seems more user friendly than RSL. 

I think theyll have no trouble filling 20,000 wherever they put it. And i dont think weve heard the last from Mpls either.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Beckham hoping to announce Miami franchise

http://www.skysports.com/watch/vide...38/beckham-hoping-to-announce-miami-franchise


Soccer stadium for St. Paul? Minneapolis isn't rolling over

http://www.startribune.com/soccer-stadium-for-st-paul-minneapolis-isn-t-rolling-over/324246951/


City/County, Spurs negotiating to purchase Toyota Field

http://www.expressnews.com/sports/s...481014.php?t=b5f39220a1&cmpid=twitter-premium


----------



## SounderBruce

Some pictures I took at the August 30th Sounders-Timbers match:


Seattle skyline from CenturyLink Field by SounderBruce, on Flickr


King Street Station and Union Station complex by SounderBruce, on Flickr


Seattle skyline from CenturyLink Field by SounderBruce, on Flickr


March to the Match at Occidental Park by SounderBruce, on Flickr


ECS member holding Supporters Shield by SounderBruce, on Flickr


Pity/Jaws ECS tifo by SounderBruce, on Flickr


Sounders-Timbers from Section 324 by SounderBruce, on Flickr


Attendance: 64,358 by SounderBruce, on Flickr


Flamethrowers at full time by SounderBruce, on Flickr


Sounders fans leaving north gate by SounderBruce, on Flickr


CenturyLink Field panorama from Section 324 by SounderBruce, on Flickr


----------



## The Game Is Up

20 years on, Garber celebrates MLS culture and Beckham's Miami happening

http://www.insideworldfootball.com/...tes-mls-culture-and-beckham-s-miami-happening


Michelle Kaufman: MLS ‘confident’ Miami, David Beckham will reach deal

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/michelle-kaufman/article35061966.html


----------



## GreenHornet553

SounderBruce said:


> CenturyLink Field panorama from Section 324 by SounderBruce, on Flickr


I don't know why, but for some reason CenturyLink field in it's soccer layout at full capacity reminds me of Arsenal's Emirates Stadium.


----------



## eMKay

That place never fails to amaze me, its perfection.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

slipperydog said:


> Just received the following email from LAFC:
> 
> 
> 
> Suffice it to say I'll be attending. Any ideas or contributions are welcome. I definitely plan to share what is discussed at the workshop.


Tell em to cut the fluff and make sure the place seats at least 28,000


----------



## Guest

MLS sellouts reach new record this week at 137. Previous best was 133. Expected this season will finish with 160 sellouts.


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> By intimate I mean close, not small.
> 
> I'm sure there will be suites and boxes and such, and I appreciate that's big money these days. But those are generally atmosphere killers, and since I prefer the Joe Fan environment please keep the prawn sandwich brigade to their own little world. I'm there to see the action, not Kanye in the stands.
> 
> But that's just me.


That's a tension that plays out in every sport as the popularity increases and the willingness to spend money does as well. It's also one of the drivers for creating Champion's leagues, where tickets can go for 1000's of dollars on resale. The key is to capture that level of demand for for every game, at least among the elite teams in any given region.


----------



## The Game Is Up

MLS team most likely to come to St. Paul
http://minneapolis.suntimes.com/mpls-entertainment/7/84/224685/mls-team-likely-come-st-paul/


Report: LAFC may not start playing until 2019
http://www.thegoatparade.com/2015/9...ying-until-2019-frustrating-stadium-delay-mls


MLS commissioner impressed with St. Paul Midway site
http://www.kare11.com/story/sports/...-impressed-with-st-paul-midway-site/72603024/


David Beckham: Miami MLS franchise looking 'very positive'
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/34334510


Charlotte Mayor Proposes Soccer Stadium at Site of Former Mall
http://www.twcnews.com/nc/charlotte...es-soccer-stadium-at-site-of-former-mall.html


Why Kevin Nagle is investing in Ice Blocks project, and what it means for Sacramento Republic
http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramen...nagle-is-investing-in-ice-blocks-project.html


----------



## Chevy114

So just like the NFL a lot nothing going on?


----------



## slipperydog

RE: LAFC Stadium Workshop



> _Thank you for your RSVP to our upcoming event. Below are the details for your attendance. We will be hosting workshop sessions regarding programming and game day experience. We encourage your participation.
> 
> When: Saturday, September 26, 2015
> 
> 9:45am - Check in at Gensler front desk
> 10:00am - Event begins
> 12:30pm - Lunch
> 2:00pm - Event ends_


Any idea what types of things might be discussed as part of 'programming' or 'game day experience'? And for those who have attended matches elsewhere in MLS, do you have any positive/negative feedback?


----------



## carlosfng

^^ "Programming" usually refers to the scheduling of matches, as in at what time of day, what day of the week(end), how many road games (as in America it is common not to do the usual home/away switching done in Europe), maybe also ticket pricing. "Game day experience" might refer to things like fan zones, concourses, services in and around the ground, maybe VIP treatment, maybe also touching upon things like accessing and parking around the stadium.


----------



## slipperydog

carlosfng said:


> ^^ "Programming" usually refers to the scheduling of matches, as in at what time of day, what day of the week(end), how many road games (as in America it is common not to do the usual home/away switching done in Europe), maybe also ticket pricing. "Game day experience" might refer to things like fan zones, concourses, services in and around the ground, maybe VIP treatment, maybe also touching upon things like accessing and parking around the stadium.


Thanks! Yeah, I truthfully haven't been to many MLS games, so I'd like to hear from others around the country what they like and don't like about these issues where they've attended games.


----------



## The Game Is Up

*Toyota Field and Scorpions sale nearing completion*

http://www.examiner.com/article/toyota-field-and-scorpions-sale-nearing-completion


Keep up with the progress on Orlando City's new downtown stadium with fresh images every 15 minutes.

http://www.orlandocitysc.com/stadium/stream


----------



## aaronniuk

*DETROIT CITY FC STADIUM PLANS APPROVED BY HAMTRAMCK SCHOOL BOARD*

Well-supported, fourth-tier side Detroit City FC took a big step forward on Thursday, with news that they’ve been granted permission to go ahead with renovations on a new home for the club.


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

Looks sweet! :cheers:

What are their plans, USL or NASL?


----------



## GreenHornet553

Good for Detroit. Hopefully, with the new stadium and increased support, they can move up to either USL or the NASL soon.


----------



## Guest

Most definitely USL, you'd think.


----------



## soup or man

LAFC released a few new renderings of the stadium that'll replace the Sports Arena.









http://www.mlssoccer.com/sites/league/files/image_nodes/2015/09/LAFC_plaza(FORMATTED).jpg









http://www.mlssoccer.com/sites/league/files/image_nodes/2015/09/LAFC_entrance(FORMATTED).jpg









http://www.mlssoccer.com/sites/league/files/image_nodes/2015/09/LAFC_bowl(FORMATTED).jpg


----------



## Guest

Looks incredible if it goes through with that design.


----------



## slipperydog

5portsF4n said:


> Looks incredible if it goes through with that design.


Went to the stadium planning session yesterday. It will be the best stadium in MLS. And not an ounce of hyperbole.


----------



## redspork02

slipperydog said:


> Went to the stadium planning session yesterday. It will be the best stadium in MLS. And not an ounce of hyperbole.


Any plans for the pool?


----------



## slipperydog

redspork02 said:


> Any plans for the pool?


Haha, we can just about guarantee there won't be anything like a swimming pool. The interaction at the workshop was extremely dynamic and collaborative. The architects at Gensler were incredibly engaging and down to earth and are trying to make the stadium exactly the way the fans want it. The Black Army guys took pics of some of the brainstorming sheets so you can get an idea of what was discussed...https://twitter.com/BlackArmy1850/media

Also, colors/crest should be unveiled in 6-8 weeks. Rumors that the design will evoke old Hollywood.


----------



## Lumbergo

Old Hollywood? So, Art Deco? Cause that would be amazing.


----------



## slipperydog

Lumbergo said:


> Old Hollywood? So, Art Deco? Cause that would be amazing.


That's the thinking at least. And if they used this font....:cheers:


----------



## aaronniuk

Glad DC are getting a new stadium, having sampled the atmosphere at RFK, this is badly needed.

Disappointed that the new renders show a cheaper design than the original images.


----------



## Sportsfan

will101 said:


> This is a shot of tonight's US Open Cup final between Kansas City and Philadelphia, at PPL Park in Chester, PA. KC won the shootout 7-6, after the teams played to a 1-1 tie. Picture tweeted by KICKTV.



That's a noticeable number of visibly empty seats for such an important game. Does the stadium's out-of-the-way location affect attendance numbers for the Union?


----------



## tinyslam

It was raining. It was on a Wednesday. I don't know when that shot was taken, but the game went to overtime and a penalty shoot out so if that picture was taken in overtime people might have left.


----------



## will101

Sportsfan said:


> Does the stadium's out-of-the-way location affect attendance numbers for the Union?


Less than 10 miles from downtown is out-of-the-way?


----------



## Guest

Sportsfan said:


> That's a noticeable number of visibly empty seats for such an important game. Does the stadium's out-of-the-way location affect attendance numbers for the Union?


It was the open cup, not an mls game. Final or not, the competition doesnt carry much weight with fans.


----------



## Guest

aaronniuk said:


> I would disagree on the quality. Look at stadiums like SJ and Redbulls. Good stadiums but have a very temporary feel to them. Steel steps rather than concrete and no external cladding at times other than tarp.


NYRB is as good as any of the lego set stadiums you have in the UK. Derby, Leicester, Milton keynes and the millions of others, its a very modern english stadium in that sense.

Agree about SJ, which is dreadful.

As for DCU, just get it done. If it was a rectangular card box it would be a step up.


----------



## bd popeye

Sportsfan said:


> That's a noticeable number of visibly empty seats for such an important game. Does the stadium's out-of-the-way location affect attendance numbers for the Union?


MLS attendance is really quite good..


----------



## SJAnfield

Sportsfan said:


> That's a noticeable number of visibly empty seats for such an important game. Does the stadium's out-of-the-way location affect attendance numbers for the Union?



The U.S. Open Cup just hasn't garnered the interest that a lot of other domestic cups have abroad.


----------



## hngcm

bd popeye said:


> MLS attendance is really quite good..


The average is higher than all but one NHL team (Blackhawks) and one NBA team (Bulls)!

http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2015


http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance/_/year/2015


----------



## Calvin W

hngcm said:


> The average is higher than all but one NHL team (Blackhawks) and one NBA team (Bulls)!
> 
> http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2015
> 
> 
> http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance/_/year/2015


Considering the size of the arenas verses soccer stadium, MLS should be higher. Go off percentage wise and then compare. Considering most NHL teams average 95%+ and NBA 95%+ capacity, compare that to MLS.


----------



## Guest

For what its worth, 15 nba teams average below 95% capacity.


----------



## Kerrybai

Calvin W said:


> Considering the size of the arenas verses soccer stadium, MLS should be higher. Go off percentage wise and then compare. Considering most NHL teams average 95%+ and NBA 95%+ capacity, compare that to MLS.


Not shit, basketball and hockey are 2 of the biggest sports in the country and the best players in the world play in those leagues. The MLS has basically no stars and still attracts great attendances for a sport outside the big 4. I wonder how well the NBA would do if all the stars played in Europe or elsewhere.


----------



## bd popeye

Kerrybai said:


> Not shit, basketball and hockey are 2 of the biggest sports in the country and the best players in the world play in those leagues. The MLS has basically no stars and still attracts great attendances for a sport outside the big 4. I wonder how well the NBA would do if all the stars played in Europe or elsewhere.


The stars of the NBA won't play in Europe or elsewhere because the BIG MONEY $$$ in basketball is in the United States. Not happening anytime soon.

Comparing butts in the seats is interesting but MLS TV ratings are poor compared the NBA, NFL & local MLB Tv ratings. In my opinion interest in th MLS is limited to the cities in which the franchises are located...in time that may change.

MLS while growing in popularity the MLS still lags behind in revenue generated by the sales of MLS"gear".


----------



## Calvin W

Kerrybai said:


> Not shit, basketball and hockey are 2 of the biggest sports in the country and the best players in the world play in those leagues. The MLS has basically no stars and still attracts great attendances for a sport outside the big 4. I wonder how well the NBA would do if all the stars played in Europe or elsewhere.


MLS is far from Great attendance. For a newish pro league it is doing ok, but compare it to the big two, Baseball or Football, and it has a hell of a long way to go to even be on the same page. Percentage wise it isn't even close to NHL or NBA.

How many MLS teams will average 95% of capacity? One, two? How about we compare apples to apples? Compare MLS to Baseball or Football? At least these sports are played in stadiums not indoor arenas.


----------



## GunnerJacket

RMB2007 said:


> More info in the link below:
> 
> www.blackandredunited.com/2015/10/1/9431779/dc-united-stadium-drawings-renderings-buzzard-point


Considering the visions once held for this team and the potential for DC to serve as the flagship for major east coast teams this is a bit of a let down. Better than RFK? Sure. Befitting what most MLS fans feel DCU should have? Sorry, but no. Not only does it have the feeling of making major compromises for the site as it exists now but it portends to a future without much chance for expansion or improvement, and that's the biggest killer.

If you're going to push the venue right up against the street on one side then make that side larger and "complete," rather than some single shallow tier that will forever look small time. 


aaronniuk said:


> I would disagree on the quality. Look at stadiums like SJ and Redbulls. Good stadiums but have a very temporary feel to them. Steel steps rather than concrete and no external cladding at times other than tarp.


You're free to come over here and give the teams some money to upgrade their facilities. 



aaronniuk said:


> Glad DC are getting a new stadium, having sampled the atmosphere at RFK, this is badly needed.
> 
> Disappointed that the new renders show a cheaper design than the original images.


+1



Sportsfan said:


> That's a noticeable number of visibly empty seats for such an important game. Does the stadium's out-of-the-way location affect attendance numbers for the Union?


14k in an 18k venue on a rainy Wednesday night isn't that bad, but I was hoping for better. 


Calvin W said:


> MLS is far from Great attendance. For a newish pro league it is doing ok, but compare it to the big two, Baseball or Football, and it has a hell of a long way to go to even be on the same page. Percentage wise it isn't even close to NHL or NBA.
> 
> How many MLS teams will average 95% of capacity? One, two? How about we compare apples to apples? Compare MLS to Baseball or Football? At least these sports are played in stadiums not indoor arenas.


Before this topic gets out of hand - No one is going to hold up the per-game averages and imply the MLS is on par with any of the big four US(+canada) leagues. Anyone doing so is fooling themselves. 

What makes MLS attendances great, however, is their considerable growth for a sport with but a shred of the domestic history of the other US leagues. 30 years ago there was but a small minor league with 8 teams. As recently as 2000 MLS was facing contraction and less than 14k fans per game. That they're now able to regularly feature singular events that have as many people as an NBA game is a testament to their progress.

MLS will likely never match the standing of the other leagues, but their attendances of late are great for pro soccer in the US.


----------



## slipperydog

Wow, I'm really disappointed no one appreciated my first post on this page.


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> 14k in an 18k venue on a rainy Wednesday night isn't that bad, but I was hoping for better.
> Before this topic gets out of hand - No one is going to hold up the per-game averages and imply the MLS is on par with any of the big four US(+canada) leagues. Anyone doing so is fooling themselves.
> 
> What makes MLS attendances great, however, is their considerable growth for a sport with but a shred of the domestic history of the other US leagues. 30 years ago there was but a small minor league with 8 teams. As recently as 2000 MLS was facing contraction and less than 14k fans per game. That they're now able to regularly feature singular events that have as many people as an NBA game is a testament to their progress.
> 
> MLS will likely never match the standing of the other leagues, but their attendances of late are great for pro soccer in the US.



The question isn't about the past. The question is about the future and what will be done to make MLS more profitable. This is not so much based on percent of capacity as on raw attendance numbers and ticket prices, but most importantly on a general public recognition that there is a match worth watching on TV.

For stadiums, I would suggest keeping them small but work on driving demand to make the tickets expensive. The rest of the money and effort is on media campaigns.


----------



## slipperydog

Glad we're done with that page.


----------



## RMB2007

RMB2007 said:


> More info in the link below:
> 
> www.blackandredunited.com/2015/10/1/9431779/dc-united-stadium-drawings-renderings-buzzard-point





















https://twitter.com/blackandredU


----------



## KingmanIII

uke:


----------



## aaronniuk

5portsF4n said:


> NYRB is as good as any of the lego set stadiums you have in the UK. Derby, Leicester, Milton keynes and the millions of others, its a very modern english stadium in that sense.
> 
> Agree about SJ, which is dreadful.
> 
> As for DCU, just get it done. If it was a rectangular card box it would be a step up.


Red Bull Arena still has the feel of a temporary stadium with no external cladding and steel construction prominent.

Derby, MK and Leicester use concrete terracing and have external cladding. 

An MLS stadium in UK, compared with any stadium of same size would be at the cheaper end of the scale.


----------



## aaronniuk

The DC stadium looks more like a high school stadium with open backed stands. I just hope they have seats instead of benches.


----------



## Chevy114

I'll believe it when the ground is finally broken!


----------



## slipperydog

disappointing anytime one of these stadiums is built without an overhang in the supporters end, which prevents the hanging of large tifo. that's something we're very excited about at LAFC


----------



## master_klon

Did LAFC indicate in the meeting when they are hoping to break ground on their stadium?


----------



## slipperydog

master_klon said:


> Did LAFC indicate in the meeting when they are hoping to break ground on their stadium?


I believe the thinking has been to begin demo/site prep in March 2016, groundbreaking in August-September 2016. If things get delayed, the team might have to open 2018 on the road because the FO seems pretty adamant about not using a temporary facility.


----------



## hermsNS

Most of the new soccer specific stadiums, designs and renders look cheap.
Is it because someday, more seats might be added if needed? For example: Toyota Park, Rio Tintno, DC's new stadium... DC looks like a tempotary stadium because of all that empty space under the bleechers.


----------



## Kerrybai

Calvin W said:


> MLS is far from Great attendance. For a newish pro league it is doing ok, but compare it to the big two, Baseball or Football, and it has a hell of a long way to go to even be on the same page. Percentage wise it isn't even close to NHL or NBA.
> 
> How many MLS teams will average 95% of capacity? One, two? How about we compare apples to apples? Compare MLS to Baseball or Football? At least these sports are played in stadiums not indoor arenas.


I believe the MLS is ranked 7th in the world for attendances, that is very impressive for a sport that is ranked 5th or so in the US. Apples to apples? Baseball and Football are engrained in american culture, soccer shouldn't be compared to America's favourite 2 pastimes.


----------



## Kerrybai

bd popeye said:


> The stars of the NBA won't play in Europe or elsewhere because the BIG MONEY $$$ in basketball is in the United States. Not happening anytime soon.
> 
> Comparing butts in the seats is interesting but MLS TV ratings are poor compared the NBA, NFL & local MLB Tv ratings. In my opinion interest in th MLS is limited to the cities in which the franchises are located...in time that may change.
> 
> MLS while growing in popularity the MLS still lags behind in revenue generated by the sales of MLS"gear".




Of course they won't play in Europe, I wasn't suggesting that so I'm not sure why gave an 'answer' to that. I was merely pointing out that attendance in the NBA ( and tv figures for that matter ) would suffer greatly. The MLS does very well considering the stars play elsewhere.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Schafer: St. Paul has the better location for a pro soccer stadium

http://www.startribune.com/admit-it...-location-for-a-pro-soccer-stadium/330191811/


Louisville to Explore Expansion Plans for Soccer

http://www.wlky.com/news/louisville-to-explore-expansion-plans-for-soccer/35605176


----------



## Calvin W

Kerrybai said:


> I believe the MLS is ranked 7th in the world for attendances, that is very impressive for a sport that is ranked 5th or so in the US. Apples to apples? Baseball and Football are engrained in american culture, soccer shouldn't be compared to America's favourite 2 pastimes.


But you can compare it to hockey and basketball?


----------



## pesto

Kerrybai said:


> I believe the MLS is ranked 7th in the world for attendances, that is very impressive for a sport that is ranked 5th or so in the US. Apples to apples? Baseball and Football are engrained in american culture, soccer shouldn't be compared to America's favourite 2 pastimes.


Doesn't sound right. Has to be less than UK, German and French soccer, Japanese baseball and the 4 major US sports.


----------



## master_klon

MLS is now the eighth highest attended football/soccer league, thanks to the Chinese Super League. Serie A is also currently above Ligue 1 in attendance this season. Not sure about Primera División so I went on last year's data.

1. Bundesliga
2. Premier League
3. La Liga
4. Liga MX
5. Serie A
6. Chinese Super League
7. Ligue 1
*8. MLS*
9. Primera División
10. Eredivisie


----------



## Calvin W

So eight out of soccer, so honestly wouldn't crack top 12 World wide in sports then. MLB, NFL, AFL, CFL, Japanese Baseball, etc. would all be above them.


----------



## aaronniuk

master_klon said:


> MLS is now the eighth highest attended football/soccer league, thanks to the Chinese Super League. Serie A is also currently above Ligue 1 in attendance this season. Not sure about Primera División so I went on last year's data.
> 
> 1. Bundesliga
> 2. Premier League
> 3. La Liga
> 4. Liga MX
> 5. Serie A
> 6. Chinese Super League
> 7. Ligue 1
> *8. MLS*
> 9. Primera División
> 10. Eredivisie


It ignores the english championship has a very high average.

The MLS though is not based on attendance but ticket sales.


----------



## pesto

master_klon said:


> MLS is now the eighth highest attended football/soccer league, thanks to the Chinese Super League. Serie A is also currently above Ligue 1 in attendance this season. Not sure about Primera División so I went on last year's data.
> 
> 1. Bundesliga
> 2. Premier League
> 3. La Liga
> 4. Liga MX
> 5. Serie A
> 6. Chinese Super League
> 7. Ligue 1
> *8. MLS*
> 9. Primera División
> 10. Eredivisie


Chinese Super League! That's one that doesn't get on TV much (at least in California). :lol:


----------



## GunnerJacket

Never realized MLS pissed in so many peoples' Cheerios. 




See what happens when you add a franchise in Orlando?!!


----------



## bd popeye

aaronniuk said:


> It ignores the english championship has a very high average.
> 
> The MLS though is not based on attendance but ticket sales.


The disparity in tickets sold and rear ends in the seats is not that great in most sporting events. Teams can't help it if some fan does not show up after he/she purchased a ticket. 

The ticket was sold and the teams make money.....that's the bottom line.


----------



## eMKay

Man they really downgraded the DC United design. It's not too bad, better than what they have now I guess.


----------



## master_klon

aaronniuk said:


> It ignores the english championship has a very high average.
> 
> The MLS though is not based on attendance but ticket sales.


The Championship, Bundesliga 2., J-League and Campeonato Brasileiro Série A all have a similar attendance, but sit behind the Eredivisie.

I would assume that in most countries, event and sports attendance is counted based on tickets sold. Maybe I'm wrong though.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Downtown Railyards Offers Sacramento Its Best Shot At Major League Soccer Team

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2015...to-its-best-shot-at-major-league-soccer-team/


http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/city-beat/article37805028.html


----------



## Guest

Calvin W said:


> So eight out of soccer, so honestly wouldn't crack top 12 World wide in sports then. MLB, NFL, AFL, CFL, Japanese Baseball, etc. would all be above them.


Won't somebody think of the children?

Time to pack it in then. It was good while it lasted. BPL and Bundeslia aside, all those other soccer leagues are catchable. 



aaronniuk said:


> It ignores the english championship has a very high average.
> 
> The MLS though is not based on attendance but ticket sales.


It doesnt ignore it, because Championship is below Eredivisie in average. 

But the list is missing the Indian Super League.


----------



## aaronniuk

That surprises me.

I would say again that the MLS is based on ticket sales, not attendance.

I have been to MLS games where there are 19'000 at the game with thousands of empty seats. Was everyone queuing for hotdogs?


----------



## GunnerJacket

Let's just all be clear, shall we?

- MLS is not close to the other US leagues in terms of popularity or attendance. Gameday average matches NHL and NBA but those sports play way more home games.
- MLS is not close to matching the attendance for the most popular football/soccer leagues around the world.
- MLS (like other US leagues) goes by tickets distributed and there's a margin of error that varies from club to club as to how many folks actually showed up. This will waver based on weather, performance, etc. 
- MLS has come a loooooong way from where it was and with regards to what soccer has historically drawn in the US.



- None of this is worth getting huffy. Have a drink and chill.


----------



## tinyslam

So now that we have covered that topic again, shall we discuss Promotion/Relegation. :troll:


----------



## alexandru.mircea

^ :lol:

You'll see euro eyebrows raised on the issue of attendance vs ticket sales because sometimes, at events in Europe, the differences between the two can be very high. Don't mind it though, it's not sneering at MLS.


----------



## aaronniuk

Interested to know what the attendance at the Open Cup was?


----------



## GunnerJacket

About 14-15k, with some no shows, probably, due to the weather.


----------



## tinyslam

US Soccer says 14,463. Capacity is 18,500 at PPL Park.


----------



## mensolú

Gunner Jacket, you mention a very important point. In order to determine attendance MLS goes by tickets distributed and not by an actual head count. Consequently many of the supposed "attendees" simply do not attend, yet the numbers remain inflated. This is not done in Europe (for instance), where they go strictly by what the turnstiles say, as it should be. An attendance that is missing a considerable number of attendees is nothing but a misnomer.


----------



## aaronniuk

tinyslam said:


> US Soccer says 14,463. Capacity is 18,500 at PPL Park.


Id say a lot less than 14,463...


----------



## tinyslam

56,000 at the Sounders vs Galaxy game on Sunday night. NFL markings were only on the field because the Seahawks played Monday night.


----------



## GunnerJacket

_Warning: The following response is not personally directed at you lot but to the prevailing mob-mentality of those making a mountain out of this molehill._


mensolú said:


> Gunner Jacket, you mention a very important point. In order to determine attendance MLS goes by tickets distributed and not by an actual head count. Consequently many of the supposed "attendees" simply do not attend, yet the numbers remain inflated. This is not done in Europe (for instance), where they go strictly by what the turnstiles say, as it should be. An attendance that is missing a considerable number of attendees is nothing but a misnomer.


Who gives a flying f***? There is no award for the league with the best attendance, and any rankings we nerds might follow on the matter are purely superficial and don't impact the bottom line.

The league and teams know the figures that matter, the sponsors and broadcasters know the figures that really matter, and this practice is essentially industry standard in the US. That it may not be an actual apples-to-apples with, say, La Liga or Serie A is completely immaterial. Sure, I might be thrilled to see MLS figures comparing nicely with prominent leagues in Europe but I also know these stats mean very, very little and I take them with a grain of salt. It doesn't matter if MLS is just above or below Ligue 1, but if we know they're in the same ballpark that's all that matters.

What's more let's stop pretending MLS is miscounting by the thousands. Even if that happens for the odd game here and there that's not representative of the norm. (And for that matter, let's stop pretending European leagues are telling you a pure figure, as well, since 3 Premiership teams were corrected on this matter last year and it's highly suspected other nations do this as well.)



aaronniuk said:


> Id say a lot less than 14,463...


a) Because everyone is always in their seats at the start of a match, right?
b) So what if it is? Seriously, why is it such a big f*****g deal?

- - - -

So for the love of all that's f*****g holy, anyone wanting to chime in that this is an solely an MLS problem and that's it's a major social no-no... just don't.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Someone on BigSoccer is suggesting the latest iteration of Toronto's BMO Field will leave one end open for both the Argos and TFC next season, though I'm not finding a corroborating story from a news outlet. Would mean the final capacity might fall below 30k, but if it means a leaner operation then I won't object.


----------



## RaveDave

mensolú said:


> This is not done in Europe (for instance), where they go strictly by what the turnstiles say, as it should be. An attendance that is missing a considerable number of attendees is nothing but a misnomer.


This is not true at all, there are numerous clubs in the UK that will publish an attendance as being virtually a full house, yet there will be thousands of empty seats, Man City and Celtic spring to mind, i remember a freedom of information request being put in for the actual numbers of people in the stadium for a number of Celtic & Rangers matches this differences were crazy, Celtic had one game they had announced the attendance as being 49k when in fact the actual attendance was 28k.

Just found the article

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtic--rangers-attendances-up-1767244


----------



## Kerrybai

Calvin W said:


> But you can compare it to hockey and basketball?


Not in terms in attendance anyone as they use smaller stadiums. I never made the comparison. I just don't understand why you brought up 95+ percentage attendances as something impressive in those 2 sports when they are well established in American culture.


----------



## Kerrybai

pesto said:


> Doesn't sound right. Has to be less than UK, German and French soccer, Japanese baseball and the 4 major US sports.


My apologies, I meant in soccer.


----------



## Welkin

aaronniuk said:


> The DC stadium looks more like a high school stadium with open backed stands. I just hope they have seats instead of benches.


Wow, what high school did you go to? One thing great about MLS stadiums is that they build towards the economic reality of their league and don't spend wasted billions on stadiums like the NFL. There is nothing wrong with this stadium.


----------



## bd popeye

Welkin said:


> Wow, what high school did you go to? One thing great about MLS stadiums is that they build towards the economic reality of their league and don't spend wasted billions on stadiums like the NFL. There is nothing wrong with this stadium.


I agree and disagree. The MLS is doing the stadiums RIGHT!

I don't think the NFL is wasting money on stadiums. Now let's face it...the NFL is all about making money. not just flamboyant stadiums.... And not just in attendance. but in other revenue streams, in merchandising NFL licensed gear , Tv revenue..stadium revenue..etc etc..


----------



## Cjones2451

GunnerJacket said:


> Someone on BigSoccer is suggesting the latest iteration of Toronto's BMO Field will leave one end open for both the Argos and TFC next season, though I'm not finding a corroborating story from a news outlet. Would mean the final capacity might fall below 30k, but if it means a leaner operation then I won't object.


The rumour is one end will be a big party deck that will move in for TFC games and then roll back to allow for the longer CFL field. Given how fans have flocked to these party decks in other stadiums, not a bad idea


----------



## The Game Is Up

Sacramento study backs financial case for city's MLS ambitions 

http://www.insideworldfootball.com/...backs-financial-case-for-city-s-mls-ambitions


----------



## mensolú

To: Gunner Jacket
Re: Paid Attendance
You're missing the point by a country mile. Listen, what part of "attendance" do you not understand? There is no such thing as absentee attendance, either you're at the stadium or you're not. The beef here is with the shills in the TV booth that announce a "paid attendance" of, say, 15,747 when it's plain to see that there is maybe half of that at the stadium. It is a fraudulent claim, plain and simple. It may be standard practice in US professional sports, but that doesn't justify it. The point being that the TV chatterers should stop misleading the viewers with this "paid attendance" bullshit and give an accurate turnstile count.


----------



## GunnerJacket

The Game Is Up said:


> Sacramento study backs financial case for city's MLS ambitions
> 
> http://www.insideworldfootball.com/...backs-financial-case-for-city-s-mls-ambitions


Good deal, not only for Sacramento but for MLS, as well. The idea that the league is even within earshot of being touted as a prospective venture of this scale is great news.


mensolú said:


> To: Gunner Jacket
> Re: Paid Attendance
> You're missing the point by a country mile. Listen, what part of "attendance" do you not understand? There is no such thing as absentee attendance, either you're at the stadium or you're not. The beef here is with the shills in the TV booth that announce a "paid attendance" of, say, 15,747 when it's plain to see that there is maybe half of that at the stadium. It is a fraudulent claim, plain and simple. It may be standard practice in US professional sports, but that doesn't justify it. The point being that the TV chatterers should stop misleading the viewers with this "paid attendance" bullshit and give an accurate turnstile count.


I know exactly what attendance means, as well as the difference between tickets distributed and tickets used. Guess what? So do the owners, sponsors, broadcasters, and most fans. Whether or not the pundits on TV say 14,500 or 13,200 isn't going to change the viewing experience, from your couch or the stadium. Further, whichever figure is touted doesn't alter the real bottom line of money recouped by the teams and the league. The Chicago Fire can say 18 when it's really 16 but that won't change what's in the bank accounts. 

So the point is actually that the extent the TV wonks are "misleading" the viewers is the type of small s*** that shouldn't matter to anyone, because most everyone is in on the game and it doesn't impact the most important numbers to real stakeholders. 

If they were apparently off by, say, 5,000 per game then I might be getting my panties in a wad, too. But by most accounts the actual average difference is likely in the 100's, which would put them on par with what the press in London reveal to be for my beloved Arsenal. So I'm stumped why it's an issue, unless someone is OCD or simply hating on MLS.


----------



## Calvin W

mensolú said:


> To: Gunner Jacket
> Re: Paid Attendance
> You're missing the point by a country mile. Listen, what part of "attendance" do you not understand? There is no such thing as absentee attendance, either you're at the stadium or you're not. The beef here is with the shills in the TV booth that announce a "paid attendance" of, say, 15,747 when it's plain to see that there is maybe half of that at the stadium. It is a fraudulent claim, plain and simple. It may be standard practice in US professional sports, but that doesn't justify it. The point being that the TV chatterers should stop misleading the viewers with this "paid attendance" bullshit and give an accurate turnstile count.


Whether you attend or not doesn't matter. You pay for a ticket so that is all that matters. No one actually cares if you attend the game or not.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

^save for attendances nerds on obscure internet forums


----------



## Calvin W

alexandru.mircea said:


> ^save for attendances nerds on obscure internet forums


Enough of them out there.....


----------



## aaronniuk

GunnerJacket said:


> Whether or not the pundits on TV say 14,500 or 13,200 isn't going to change the viewing experience, from your couch or the stadium.


well...it kinda does. I went to a DC United game last year. It was wet. 14k attendance apparently. Looked more like 7K. Atmosphere? None. Experience: not my most memorable game.

I would agree with a previous point that its a cultural thing in the US to go to sporting events and spend half your time in a queue for a hot dog. Stay in your seats and watch the game!


----------



## GunnerJacket

aaronniuk said:


> well...it kinda does. I went to a DC United game last year. It was wet. 14k attendance apparently. Looked more like 7K. Atmosphere? None. Experience: not my most memorable game.
> 
> I would agree with a previous point that its a cultural thing in the US to go to sporting events and spend half your time in a queue for a hot dog. Stay in your seats and watch the game!


If what the announcer says impacts your experience that's a you thing. I don't even note the numbers until after I've left, and if anything is announced I don't change my mood based on that result. "Looks about right. Guess I can have fun now!"

The thing is those kind of experiences regarding the discrepancy in attendance are not common. Not as much as is being made here. More importantly, it's not critical! Even if the numbers are inflated the actual attendance is rising and revenues are growing. 

MLS is but 20 years old and facing the most uphill of climbs for a soccer league. Like it or don't, but just chill and let it grow.


----------



## vadin

aaronniuk said:


> well...it kinda does. I went to a DC United game last year. It was wet. 14k attendance apparently. Looked more like 7K. Atmosphere? None. Experience: not my most memorable game.


I totally agree. The number of people who are actually in their seats DOES matter. When there a lot of no shows it has a HUGE affect on the atmosphere and diminishes the experience. It doesn't matter what sport it is.

I took my kids last year to the Stanford/Army football game, where they announced the crowd was a 50,000 sell-out. Here is what the crowd actually looked like in the middle of the 3rd quarter.









I would guess there were only about 15,000 actually there in their seats. It was a total snoozefest, and wasn't a very memorable experience for me or my kids. A local high school homecoming game would've been more memorable.


----------



## tinyslam

Which is why MLS teams are building SSS with around 20k capacity and not playing in NFL stadiums.


----------



## GunnerJacket

vadin said:


> I totally agree. The number of people who are actually in their seats DOES matter. When there a lot of no shows it has a HUGE affect on the atmosphere and diminishes the experience. It doesn't matter what sport it is.


No one is disputing the impact of no-shows on the atmosphere, and those of us here who are avid fans of any sport wish every seat was full for every minute of every game. What I don't get is how _the announcement of the paid attendance/tickets distributed_ impacts your experience.

Granted, your scenario is extreme so, yes, that suggests a supreme arrogance or a disconnect with the fans. But when a crowd is about, say 12k, and is announced at 14k how does that impact your experience? Especially if that's maybe 1 out of 5 games with that level of discrepancy. 




So to be clear, no one wants to have a ton of no-shows and yes it's silly if the actual crowd is but a fraction of the announced crowd, but examples like yours are the extreme and thus shouldn't be used as the norm.


----------



## crazydude

tinyslam said:


> 56,000 at the Sounders vs Galaxy game on Sunday night. NFL markings were only on the field because the Seahawks played Monday night.


I love that soccer is taking off in the US, but that field looks confusing as hell. I think that it looks odd with rugby and soccer markings on the same field, but at least they use (just about) the same size playing surface. It really puts it into perspective how narrow NFL fields are though.


----------



## Guest

crazydude said:


> I love that soccer is taking off in the US, but that field looks confusing as hell. I think that it looks odd with rugby and soccer markings on the same field, but at least they use (just about) the same size playing surface. It really puts it into perspective how narrow NFL fields are though.


This happens once or twice a year in Seattle. Out a a 34+ game season, it isnt like that most of the time.


----------



## mhays

If the MLS catches on in more cities, these 20,000-seat stadiums could be undersized in a hurry. 

My suggestion would be something like an 10,000-person lower bowl and 10,000-person upper stands on one side. Then when it gets popular do another 10,000 on the other side. And potentially add more behind each goal also. This would probably cost more initially, but the flexibility would be awesome when it's needed.


----------



## bd popeye

crazydude said:


> I love that soccer is taking off in the US, but that field looks confusing as hell. I think that it looks odd with rugby and soccer markings on the same field, but at least they use (just about) the same size playing surface. It really puts it into perspective how narrow NFL fields are though.


One of the reasons the NFL needs that room because of all the folks hanging out on the sidelines during a game...hno:..The number of people on the sideline during an NFL game is ridiculous and distracting.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Agreed. In addition to the growing barrage of press and pundits the sideline passes are becoming quite the popular giveaways for every player's friends, family, etc. I call it the Jack Nicholson effect, whereby being on/next to the team is akin to major celebrity status, especially now with so many cameras on the scene. See and be seen!


----------



## mhays

In an NFL game, per sideline, there will be 44(?) players, several coaches, a handful of trainers, a few league sideline officials, and a few other functionaries in addition to the 11 players on the field. I doubt visitors are a significant percentage except on special occasions.


----------



## pesto

Speaking of stadiums and the NFL, providing a half-ass product played in half-ass stadiums in half-ass cities is the road to the minor leagues. A quote from Jerry Jones re stadiums and general attitude:

“This needs to be about excess. This needs to be about excessive passion, about excessive commitment, financial commitment. It needs to be about excess of vision. It needs to be a symbol of the future, the way we feel about the NFL.”

It's time for US soccer to improve the product, even if it's only in 3-6 cities. This will come from billionaires willing to invest and market the way that the English Premier League and a couple of others have done. People who can exploit a worldwide market for their brands and will invest the money to develop those brands into the equivalents of the Yankees, Dodgers, Lakers, Cowboys, etc.


----------



## GunnerJacket

pesto said:


> Speaking of stadiums and the NFL, providing a half-ass product played in half-ass stadiums in half-ass cities is the road to the minor leagues. A quote from Jerry Jones re stadiums and general attitude:
> 
> “This needs to be about excess. This needs to be about excessive passion, about excessive commitment, financial commitment. It needs to be about excess of vision. It needs to be a symbol of the future, the way we feel about the NFL.”
> 
> It's time for US soccer to improve the product, even if it's only in 3-6 cities. This will come from billionaires willing to invest and market the way that the English Premier League and a couple of others have done. People who can exploit a worldwide market for their brands and will invest the money to develop those brands into the equivalents of the Yankees, Dodgers, Lakers, Cowboys, etc.


Maybe you're just being reactionary to the USMNT loss from Saturday, maybe you're not familiar with soccer's place in the US landscape, but IMHO your idea simply will not fly and would only serve to set the sport back decades. The legitimacy that MLS has accrued comes it's stability as a league, exposing more and more fans to the pro game and appreciating that these brands exist and will continue to do so. Theorizing it can fast track to NFL scales is crack-speak, and shrinking the league down to "3-6" teams will draw ridicule from the fringe and ire from the core fan base. 

Especially if we're trying to develop local talent then we need to compromise between volumes of roster spots for US players while still drawing enough foreign talent to keep the league competitive and appealing. Contraction to extreme levels won't accomplish both, and no one want to see a micro league with the same match-ups played over and over again. MLS would sink to Major League Lacrosse levels.

Put simply and politely, no.


----------



## slipperydog

I don't think anyone suggested shrinking the league down to handful of teams.


----------



## RMB2007

> An aerial shot of the new @Avaya Stadium rooftop signage!












https://twitter.com/AvayaStadium


----------



## likasz

carnifex2005 said:


> Panorama shot from the US v. Mexico CONCACAF Cup match last week at the Rose Bowl in Los Angeles in front of 93,420 fans. Mexico won the right to go to the FIFA Confederations Cup with a 3-2 win in extra time.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/JtbRNhq.jpg


Does the Rose Bowl still has bleachers?


----------



## BoulderGrad

likasz said:


> Does the Rose Bowl still has bleachers?


Yes, discussed over in the Rose Bowl thread:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=643445&page=15


----------



## kbdude1971

According to ESPNFC -- A vote on a proposed soccer stadium for David Beckham's potential MLS club could go before the Miami city commission as early as December, with a referendum going before Miami voters in March, according to several Miami politicians and officials.


----------



## carnifex2005

kbdude1971 said:


> According to ESPNFC -- A vote on a proposed soccer stadium for David Beckham's potential MLS club could go before the Miami city commission as early as December, with a referendum going before Miami voters in March, according to several Miami politicians and officials.


The reason why...

*Tim Leiweke joins David Beckham’s MLS in Miami investment group*

From the article...

"but sources said Leiweke has been meeting with Miami-Dade politicians over the past several weeks to accelerate the deal."

No wonder shit is finally getting done. First the BMO expansion and now this. Leiweke is great.


----------



## will101

carnifex2005 said:


> The reason why...
> 
> *Tim Leiweke joins David Beckham’s MLS in Miami investment group*
> 
> From the article...
> 
> "but sources said Leiweke has been meeting with Miami-Dade politicians over the past several weeks to accelerate the deal."
> 
> No wonder shit is finally getting done. First the BMO expansion and now this. Leiweke is great.


He did wonders in LA. Oh, wait ...


----------



## pesto

carnifex2005 said:


> The reason why...
> 
> *Tim Leiweke joins David Beckham’s MLS in Miami investment group*
> 
> From the article...
> 
> "but sources said Leiweke has been meeting with Miami-Dade politicians over the past several weeks to accelerate the deal."
> 
> No wonder shit is finally getting done. First the BMO expansion and now this. *Leiweke is great*.


:lol:

A very good salesman but don't trust a word he says. Remember: he was walked to the door in two consecutive CEO jobs when he couldn't understand his role.


----------



## RMB2007

*Minnesota United FC*



> St. Paul Mayor Chris Coleman and Minnesota United FC owner Bill McGuire will announce Friday that Major League Soccer is coming to St. Paul.
> 
> That's according to an email sent by St. Paul Chamber of Commerce President Matt Kramer to board members Thursday, a copy of which was obtained by the Business Journal.
> 
> A press conference is scheduled for 1 p.m. at the future stadium site, currently the bus barn on Snelling and University avenues. Other details of the plan have not yet been announced, but the press conference is significant because McGuire has been largely mum on the site.
> 
> A soccer stadium, aided by property tax breaks, already has won the backing of Ramsey County and the city of St. Paul. The Legislature may have to sign off on the plan as well, depending on how it is structured.
Click to expand...

www.bizjournals.com/twincities/blog...yor-coleman-and-mcguire-plan-to-announce.html


----------



## SounderBruce

The stadium should face University Avenue (and Snelling) with parking lots and loading docks facing I-94. If not, I'll be disappointed.


----------



## ielag

will101 said:


> He did wonders in LA. Oh, wait ...


StubHub Center, Beckham, Keane all done under his watch. BMO Field expansion, Jermain Defoe, Michael Bradley, Sebastain Giovinco all the same in Toronto.

Say what you will about Leiweke and Farmers Field, but when it comes to MLS, Leiweke gets it done.


----------



## Guest

Atlanta united have 26,000 season ticket deposits, still with 18 months to go. I was skeptical of how many would actually buy the full ST in the end.... Before I read Seattle had 15,000 *deposits* by comparison. And we know how that turned out. 

It is really quite the mystery whats going on there. First season at least looks like its gonna be a smash hit.

Happy that Minn is finalizing its deal. Didnt think it mattered who got the stadium, itll be a hit one way or another. Fool proof soccer market, if the old NASL is anything to go by. 

As for Beckham, I hope it ends soon so we can move onto Sacramento....


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> Atlanta united have 26,000 season ticket deposits, still with 18 months to go. I was skeptical of how many would actually buy the full ST in the end.... Before I read Seattle had 15,000 *deposits* by comparison. And we know how that turned out.
> 
> It is really quite the mystery whats going on there. First season at least looks like its gonna be a smash hit.


a) Arthur Blank is greatly appreciated as an owner, so we all trust him to deliver a solid product.
b) The new stadium is garnering a lot of support and appeal
c) Atlanta is desperate for a pro team of any kind that feels our own and is committed to winning. Atlanta has the fewest championships of any major city, and since the NHL dicked us over re: the Thrashers, this feels like a fresh chance. With cheaper tickets than most other pro sports.
d) We might actually have a deeper population of footie fans than expected.


----------



## pesto

ielag said:


> StubHub Center, Beckham, Keane all done under his watch. BMO Field expansion, Jermain Defoe, Michael Bradley, Sebastain Giovinco all the same in Toronto.
> 
> Say what you will about Leiweke and Farmers Field, but when it comes to MLS, Leiweke gets it done.


B/s. You have no idea what you are talking about or what Leiweke's role was at AEG. He wouldn't know Keane from Kroenke if they wore name tags.

He is a happy-face and hand-shaker, not an organizer, analyzer, financer or strategist.


----------



## RMB2007

> *Minnesota United FC’s William McGuire and Saint Paul Mayor Chris Coleman today announced the team’s commitment to building a new soccer stadium at the Snelling-Midway site in Saint Paul, providing a home for Major League Soccer (MLS) in the state of Minnesota. Joined by local officials and soccer fans from across the state, the two confirmed that the team and city will work together – along with key partners at the state and local level including a community advisory committee – to build the nearly 20,000 person capacity soccer stadium at the well-known, centrally located site.*
> 
> “By all measures important to soccer fans throughout the Twin Cities metro and the state, as well as the needs of the team and Major League Soccer (MLS), this is a great location for an iconic soccer facility that will house the MLS franchise in Minnesota,” said McGuire. “Located between two great downtowns, situated along multiple transit options and the interstate, and in the heart of a dynamic community, this site provides us the opportunity to work in partnership with the city of Saint Paul and the local community to establish top-tier professional soccer that will be readily accessible to everyone.”
> 
> Minnesota United was awarded an MLS franchise earlier this year in a highly competitive process that put Minnesota ahead of other major markets in the United States.
> 
> "Today is a great day for Saint Paul, for soccer and for the entire state,” said Mayor Coleman. “I am thrilled that the team wants to work with the community to build a stadium here in Saint Paul. A soccer stadium will provide an important catalyst for the redevelopment of the entire area – creating jobs, spurring housing and new commercial opportunities, and building on our commitment to transit oriented development. With an agreed framework for the construction of this stadium, we are confident that working with the community, our local and state partners and with one another, we can complete the process necessary to bring MLS to Minnesota.”
> 
> *The Mayor and Dr. McGuire outlined a set of principles that will underpin stadium planning. The team reiterated it will privately finance the estimated $120 million stadium, and that it will be publicly owned once construction is complete.* The Saint Paul City Council and Ramsey County have also passed resolutions supporting a continuation of tax exempt status for the site, a measure that will need to be approved by the state legislature. And, importantly, the two agreed that facilitating redevelopment of the local area to create an even more vibrant community is a prerequisite for moving forward.
> 
> "This is an exciting time for Ward 1 and soccer fans across the state,” stated Councilmember Dai Thao who represents the Ward. “Thank you to my fellow Councilmembers and County Commissioners for their leadership and support. This is the type of opportunity we need in Ward 1 to ensure progress for all, and reduce the economic gap. Let’s work together to create a vibrant destination we can be proud of!"
> 
> The redevelopment vision for the area is shared by Richard Birdoff of RK Midway, the owner of the 25-acres that surround the historic bus barn site where the stadium will be centered. “We have waited years for the right stimulus to help drive redevelopment of this area into a more vibrant part of a highly progressive community,” said Birdoff. “The MLS stadium provides us the catalyst to move ahead and help create something that will further enhance this area in ways that will be a source of pride for everyone. We are excited to have it underway, and anticipate great things for the community because of it.”
> 
> With momentum building over the past month for a soccer stadium in Saint Paul, Mayor Coleman and the Saint Paul City Council announced last week that the city is seeking applicants for a community advisory committee to guide the work of City staff and consultants as the project moves forward. The 15 to 20 person committee will be tasked with representing the broader interests of the community and providing input on the overall design and development decisions that will emerge. The local community will also be engaged through community open houses, Open Saint Paul (online engagement tool) and public hearings at both the Planning Commission and City Council.
> 
> “Today we are one step closer toward the debut of Major League Soccer in Minnesota,” said MLS Commissioner Don Garber. “We believe the Midway location will be a tremendous home for Minnesota’s new MLS club based on the site’s central location, close proximity to a diverse millennial population, and easy access to multiple modes of public transportation.”


http://www.newstpaulstadium.com/


----------



## Guest

20,000, phew. Though it might actually end up 18k. Still going to be too small for this team, but it is a reasonable start. Just hope is expansion is easy.


----------



## ielag

pesto said:


> B/s. You have no idea what you are talking about or what Leiweke's role was at AEG. He wouldn't know Keane from Kroenke if they wore name tags.
> 
> He is a happy-face and hand-shaker, not an organizer, analyzer, financer or strategist.


You have absolutely zero clue whatsoever and always have when it comes to MLS. Leiweke was the first one to contact Beckham about coming to MLS and Beckham has even acknowledged this.

You think someone who did this has no idea who Robbie Keane is? http://www.thestar.com/sports/socce...lourful_journey_led_by_tim_leiweke_kelly.html

You probably have zero clue who Giovinco, Defoe, Gillardino are anyways, so it's useless to debate with you. Ask all the biggest journalists in this country that cover MLS like Wahl, Goff, Straus and they'll tell you how huge of influence Leiweke has had on MLS. He persuaded Anschutz to save MLS in the early 2000's by owning 6 of the teams at one time, Leiweke is extremely passionate about MLS.


----------



## Guest

^Truth. This poser needs to stop pretending like he knows anything about MLS or soccer.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

pesto said:


> B/s. You have no idea what you are talking about or what Leiweke's role was at AEG. He wouldn't know Keane from Kroenke if they wore name tags.
> 
> He is a happy-face and hand-shaker, not an organizer, analyzer, financer or strategist.


You're 100% wrong


----------



## pesto

ielag said:


> You have absolutely zero clue whatsoever and always have when it comes to MLS. Leiweke was the first one to contact Beckham about coming to MLS and Beckham has even acknowledged this.
> 
> You think someone who did this has no idea who Robbie Keane is? http://www.thestar.com/sports/socce...lourful_journey_led_by_tim_leiweke_kelly.html
> 
> You probably have zero clue who Giovinco, Defoe, Gillardino are anyways, so it's useless to debate with you. Ask all the biggest journalists in this country that cover MLS like Wahl, Goff, Straus and they'll tell you how huge of influence Leiweke has had on MLS. He persuaded Anschutz to save MLS in the early 2000's by owning 6 of the teams at one time, Leiweke is extremely passionate about MLS.


Sorry, you can spout but you are speaking from ignorance. I have personally worked with him and know others who have at great length and the view is pretty much universal. Briefly, he is a "face" used for glad-handing and chatting up people; put him in the pictures so that the air-head politicians, general public and fan-boys can focus on him, while others do the real strategizing. 

When it comes to strategy, finance, organizational development and management, etc., he is literally excluded (and I do mean literally; potential JV investors requested him to be removed from conversations because he was not helpful). 

Don't get me wrong: he's very good as someone to handle the politicians, buy a round, pose for pictures, etc. But not for making the serious decisions.


----------



## slipperydog

n/m


----------



## GreenHornet553

GunnerJacket said:


> Since it appears we haven't gone into detail on this latest news of BMO Field in this thread, here's a rendering of the probable CFL configuration. The end zone to the left in this picture is to be left open even for soccer, though it may have an optional party-deck configuration that would be more easily removed for CFL games, but there would be no formal seating, permanent or otherwise. For now, at least. This would see the overall capacity probably drop to about 28k, which appears won't be an issue for TFC as they're likely to be in the 20-25k range on a routine basis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It means the venue loses some of its charm but still remains solid, IMO. At ;east under this scenario the remaining 3 sides are very good and the alignment for soccer will remain prime. Should they ever need to increase capacity for soccer in the future then I imagine they'll be able to afford the type of more complex design require to accommodate both sports.


Why does TFC have to capitulate to the Argos? I still don't understand how that works. The Argos are the ones that are the tenants to BMO, not TFC. They are turning a Soccer Specific Stadium into a multipurpose facility, which goes against everything the MLS has been trying to accomplish with regards to improving the league. Why does TFC have to alter their stadium to make it more like a CFL stadium? 

Also, out of curiosity, why can't the Argos stay in SkyDome (Rogers Center)? Do the Blue Jays have an issue with the Argos using what's supposed to be a multipurpose facility?


----------



## weava

GreenHornet553 said:


> Why does TFC have to capitulate to the Argos? I still don't understand how that works. The Argos are the ones that are the tenants to BMO, not TFC. They are turning a Soccer Specific Stadium into a multipurpose facility, which goes against everything the MLS has been trying to accomplish with regards to improving the league. Why does TFC have to alter their stadium to make it more like a CFL stadium?
> 
> Also, out of curiosity, why can't the Argos stay in SkyDome (Rogers Center)? Do the Blue Jays have an issue with the Argos using what's supposed to be a multipurpose facility?


It's a government owned stadium that is managed by MLSE who owns the NBA, NHL, and MLS teams in Toronto and they are in the process of buying the Argos so both teams will have the same owners. It is the TFC owners making this happen, it's not being done against their will.

The Skydome is too large for the Argos. Essentially they want to move for the same reason MLS teams moved out of NFL stadiums, they want a smaller venue to create a better atmosphere.


----------



## SounderBruce

The Sounders, with their attendance of 55K tonight, have once again broken the MLS average attendance record at 44,245. It's just above their 2013 mark and is now the 3rd highest overall in American soccer history (behind two seasons of the NY Cosmos) and around 29th in the world overall this year.

The club posted an infographic on their website:


----------



## GunnerJacket

It's tough to tout the Sounders too much without sounding like you're simply assigning that success to MLS, but you can't deny that figure is pretty damn impressive no matter how you slice it. It's incredible for a US soccer team, and most exciting to me is how they've not only sustained that level but built on the phenomena! So you can't call it a gimmick, and though they remain the bold outlier you can't say it's unwarranted or that the league is undeserving, either. 

I just couldn't be more thrilled for pro soccer in the US these days. Can't wait for Atlanta to start up!


----------



## JYDA

weava said:


> It's a government owned stadium that is managed by MLSE who owns the NBA, NHL, and MLS teams in Toronto and they are in the process of buying the Argos so both teams will have the same owners. It is the TFC owners making this happen, it's not being done against their will.
> 
> The Skydome is too large for the Argos. Essentially they want to move for the same reason MLS teams moved out of NFL stadiums, they want a smaller venue to create a better atmosphere.


The first paragraph is only half true. MLSE is co-owned by Bell and Rogers. Bell wanted to buy the Argos but Rogers wanted nothing to do with it and fought the purchase. Bell ended up buying the team independent of Rogers. It's similar to the way the Blue Jays are owned by Rogers and not part of MLSE.

Rogers basically evicted the Argos from the Skydome (Rogers Centre) so they can install grass.


----------



## aaronniuk

Celtic have been told by NASL commissioner Bill Paterson that operating a franchise in the North American league could help to bring top American players to Celtic Park. The NASL will expand to 20 teams by 2018. (Sun)

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/34632349


----------



## GunnerJacket

Not finding the official info on MLSsoccer.com, but various folks took the tallies from last nights' games and are suggesting MLS will end the regular season with a league average attendance of roughly 21,600! Obviously Orlando and NYC exceeded expectations but another crucial factor was the removal of Chivas. 

Also, it appears every team exceeded 15k for their team averages, another very strong sign for the league. 



aaronniuk said:


> Celtic have been told by NASL commissioner Bill Paterson that operating a franchise in the North American league could help to bring top American players to Celtic Park. The NASL will expand to 20 teams by 2018. (Sun)
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/34632349


No more satellite operations for foreign clubs! No more using US (or any other nation, for that matter) as merely a commercial outlet or a development tool. A thousand times no.


----------



## will101

GunnerJacket said:


> Obviously Orlando and NYC exceeded expectations but another crucial factor was the removal of Chivas.


Plus the Quakes getting out of 10,500 seat Buck Shaw Stadium.


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> Not finding the official info on MLSsoccer.com, but various folks took the tallies from last nights' games and are suggesting MLS will end the regular season with a league average attendance of roughly 21,600! Obviously Orlando and NYC exceeded expectations but another crucial factor was the removal of Chivas.
> 
> Also, it appears every team exceeded 15k for their team averages, another very strong sign for the league.
> 
> *No more satellite operations for foreign clubs! No more using US (or any other nation, for that matter) as merely a commercial outlet or a development tool. A thousand times no*.


Congratulations, you get an instant induction to the protectionism HOF. Worked out really well in the auto, truck, electronics, steel, textile, machine tool, refining, metal working, etc., industries.

As well all know, the best way to improve the domestic product is to make foreign competition illegal.


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

I refuse to believe that Dynamo has 20,658 per game.

Are these numbers based on people going through gates on matchday or tix sold?


----------



## GunnerJacket

pesto said:


> Congratulations, you get an instant induction to the protectionism HOF. Worked out really well in the auto, truck, electronics, steel, textile, machine tool, refining, metal working, etc., industries.
> 
> As well all know, the best way to improve the domestic product is to make foreign competition illegal.


Afraid you missed the mark as I wasn't referring to this with regard to keeping US players, and your comparisons don't apply given the nature of balanced, insular athletic competitions vs. an open market. 

My point stems from the notion that sports teams are supposed to be representative of the host community and not simply be a remote operation for some global conglomerate. We're not vested in watching Coke vs. Delta, but rather City A vs. City B. It's bad enough when companies go beyond sponsoring the team to outright managing the team, now we have (essentially) the New York Manchesters with the prospect of more such satellite operations?! 

I understand the business idea behind it, especially now that national sports leagues are indeed global products. But that doesn't make it right or mean I have to like it. I'd rather each team around the world be owned an operated independently from other teams, foreign or domestic. Let the fortunes of my home town team be guided by our ownership and community.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

dinamo_zagreb said:


> I refuse to believe that Dynamo has 20,658 per game.
> 
> Are these numbers based on people going through gates on matchday or tix sold?


definitely just tix sold


----------



## will101

pesto said:


> As well all know, the best way to improve the domestic product is to make foreign competition illegal.


And everyone knows that workers in the US are overjoyed to work 10 hour days for $2 a day and a bowl of rice.


----------



## master_klon

*MLS sets new attendance records*

Major League Soccer had another record-breaking year at the box office in 2015. 

The cumulative attendance figures are in for the 2015 MLS regular season, with both individual clubs and the league setting a host of new records. Here are a few of the most notable attendance figures from the 2015 season: 


MLS averaged 21,574 fans per game this season, good for a total attendance of 7,335,053
The average attendance at an MLS regular season game increased 12.7 percent, moving from 19,147 in 2014 to 21,574 this season.
An all-time high of 10 clubs averaged more than 20,000 fans per game
The highest average attendance came from the Seattle Sounders at 44,247, which breaks the club's previous league record of 44,038 set in 2013. 
There were a record 161 sellouts across the league this year, 28 more than the previous mark of 133 set in 2014.
Highest Average Attendance (by club):


Seattle Sounders - 44,247
Orlando City - 32,847
New York City FC - 29,016
Toronto FC - 23,451
LA Galaxy - 23,392
Portland Timbers - 21,142
San Jose Earthquakes - 20,979
Houston Dynamo - 20,658
Vancouver Whitecaps FC - 20,507
Real Salt Lake - 20,160
Sporting Kansas City - 19,687
New York Red Bulls - 19,657
New England Revolution - 19,627
Montreal Impact - 17,750
Philadelphia Union - 17,451
Columbus Crew SC - 16,985
D.C. United - 16,244
FC Dallas - 16,013
Chicago Fire - 16,003
Colorado Rapids - 15,657


----------



## RMB2007

*Red Bull Arena*



> *London Irish and Premiership Rugby confirmed today that the Club will be the first to play an Aviva Premiership fixture overseas when the Exiles take their Round 16 home match to the USA on Saturday 12th March 2016.
> 
> The fixture will see London Irish play reigning Champions, Saracens, at the 25,000 capacity Red Bull Arena, the home of Major League Soccer’s New York Red Bulls.*
> 
> This ground-breaking announcement is a milestone in the development of London Irish and of the League which underlines the growing international interest in Aviva Premiership Rugby and showcases it in the biggest sports market in the world where rugby is currently the fastest growing team sport.
> 
> Taking place amidst the build-up to the St. Patrick’s Day festivities in the “Big Apple”, this London Irish home game will also be a celebration of Irish culture for the many thousands of first, second and third generation Irish people living in the New York region.


www.london-irish.com/news/london-irish-aviva-premiership-rugby-match-in-usa/bp549/


----------



## GunnerJacket

master_klon said:


> *MLS sets new attendance records*
> 
> Major League Soccer had another record-breaking year at the box office in 2015.
> 
> The cumulative attendance figures are in for the 2015 MLS regular season, with both individual clubs and the league setting a host of new records. Here are a few of the most notable attendance figures from the 2015 season:
> 
> 
> MLS averaged 21,574 fans per game this season, good for a total attendance of 7,335,053
> The average attendance at an MLS regular season game increased 12.7 percent, moving from 19,147 in 2014 to 21,574 this season.
> An all-time high of 10 clubs averaged more than 20,000 fans per game
> The highest average attendance came from the Seattle Sounders at 44,247, which breaks the club's previous league record of 44,038 set in 2013.
> There were a record 161 sellouts across the league this year, 28 more than the previous mark of 133 set in 2014


Colorado featured the lowest AA this year at 15,657 per. For comparison sake, that's better than the MLS _league_ average for 10 of the league's 20 year existence! 

2000	- 13,619
1998	- 14,231
1999	- 14,333
1997	- 14,521
2003	- 14,884
2001	- 14,943
2005	- 14,982
2006	- 15,347
2004	- 15,581
2002	- 15,655

Also, based on the same article klon has linked above this year the MLS AA surpassed that for the French Ligue 1 and Dutch Eredivisie (both for last season), and widened their gap over the Brazilian Serie A! Only one crude indicator of the relative health and appeal of the league, but still great to see.


----------



## HB07

Guys can we have the accurate figure of 2015 average attendance, i find several sources:

21,582 for ESPN
21,574 for MLS official site
21,546 for Soccer Stadium Digest

On the other hand, how Timbers can record an average of 21,142 since all the games recorded 21,144 (MLS website)?


----------



## master_klon

Yep, I noticed the discrepancy between the Timbers attendance figures I've seen all year and what was published on mlssoccer.com. I decided to post it as is, but 21,144 is the correct attendance for all their games. I agree though, that it is a bit strange that the numbers are not consistent.


----------



## ramakrishna1984

Minnesota United Football Club (FC) in the US has formed a partnership with the city authorities in St Paul to develop a soccer stadium on vacant property owned by the Metropolitan Council and expected to cost around $120m accommodating nearly 20,000 seats.


----------



## Topher51

master_klon said:


> Yep, I noticed the discrepancy between the Timbers attendance figures I've seen all year and what was published on mlssoccer.com. I decided to post it as is, but 21,144 is the correct attendance for all their games. I agree though, that it is a bit strange that the numbers are not consistent.


I have no specific insight on this, but know that attendance figures for college football include everyone in the stadium. Security, vendors, media, etc.


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> Afraid you missed the mark as I wasn't referring to this with regard to keeping US players, and your comparisons don't apply given the nature of balanced, insular athletic competitions vs. an open market.
> 
> My point stems from the notion that sports teams are supposed to be representative of the host community and not simply be a remote operation for some global conglomerate. We're not vested in watching Coke vs. Delta, but rather City A vs. City B. It's bad enough when companies go beyond sponsoring the team to outright managing the team, now we have (essentially) the New York Manchesters with the prospect of more such satellite operations?!
> 
> I understand the business idea behind it, especially now that national sports leagues are indeed global products. But that doesn't make it right or mean I have to like it. I'd rather each team around the world be owned an operated independently from other teams, foreign or domestic. Let the fortunes of my home town team be guided by our ownership and community.


I agree; I've always felt that you should only have players from within the city limits. Let the suburbs watch minor league :lol:

The rest I can't even fathom what you're talking about. Are you going beyond protectionism to dissecting people and brands for "where they are REALLY from"? Like the Dodgers are owned by NY/Chicago investors and have players from Latin America and Asia and sponsors from Japan who manufacture in China? And the light bulbs are Korean with Thai assemblies?


----------



## Lumbergo

no, I think he's just like many other soccer fans - in that we don't want more Manchester Chivas in this country. anyone who supports a satellite club is a tool.


----------



## likasz

Are standing rooms possible in the MLS? Is there any state that bans it?


----------



## Hansadyret

ramakrishna1984 said:


> Minnesota United Football Club (FC) in the US has formed a partnership with the city authorities in St Paul to develop a soccer stadium on vacant property owned by the Metropolitan Council and expected to cost around $120m accommodating nearly 20,000 seats.


Just read a bit of Minnesota "soccer" history. Seems the old Minnesota Kicks was a pretty well supported team.

"over 23,000 fans in each season from 1976–79, with attendance peaking at 32,775 in 1977"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Kicks

Will 20.000 be big enough? Does that site have room for expansion?


----------



## will101

likasz said:


> Are standing rooms possible in the MLS? Is there any state that bans it?


There is a small standing section at Avaya Stadium, but it is regarded as an experiment. The fire marshal required some design modifications, the maximum number of people in the section is rigidly enforced, and there was a fair amount of discussion about the history of fatal incidents with standing areas.


----------



## master_klon

likasz said:


> Are standing rooms possible in the MLS? Is there any state that bans it?


Every stadium has at least one standing active-supporter section. Half of them have regular seats and the other half have bench seating. San Jose is the only team that has a standing terrace, although their main supporters group stands in the upper tier because of the terrace's small capacity. Orlando's new stadium (opening 2017) will have a large German-style safe standing section. Portland is the only other team, that I know are also planning to have rail seating. However the concourses are already quite congested, so there has been a lot of problems in getting this approved.


----------



## master_klon

Hansadyret said:


> Will 20.000 be big enough? Does that site have room for expansion?


That's what I'm thinking too. MUFC should be building a 25,000 capacity stadium, with room for expansion. As we see on the map on page 671 of this thread, I'm pretty sure they bought the entire 34.5 acre site. So I don't think they have any space constraints, unless they limit themselves to building in the former bus barn site.


----------



## HB07

MLS play-off attendances are below regular season attendance ^^ strange habits for US soccer fans


----------



## SounderBruce

HB07 said:


> MLS play-off attendances are below regular season attendance ^^ strange habits for US soccer fans


That can be attributed to the very short amount of time (leaving no room for big ad campaigns), matches not included in season ticket holder packages, and playing them midweek (especially for the first round).


----------



## GunnerJacket

HB07 said:


> MLS play-off attendances are below regular season attendance ^^ strange habits for US soccer fans


??

Rather early to judge. 2 of the 4 so far sold out and Seattle was a 'paltry' 39 k, 2k+ below their norm. That leaves only DC as the one lagging, and they were coming off f bad weather so I give them a little leeway.


----------



## Guest

Basically, another person commenting on MLS that doesnt follow it. 

Sounders below avg attendance because the capacity was capped. Only reason theyre at 44k was because they opened the stadium a couple of times.


----------



## JPriestguy

HB07 said:


> MLS play-off attendances are below regular season attendance ^^ strange habits for US soccer fans


You're not that "Empty Seats Galore" troll on Twitter, are you?


----------



## HB07

JPriestguy said:


> You're not that "Empty Seats Galore" troll on Twitter, are you?


^^ No no, but i think i am following him on twitter :lol:


----------



## Guest

Chinese Super League rights just sold for $1.3 billion/ 5 years, or $250m a year, up from $9m (yes $9m). Huge, and probably not reflective of its real worth, upgrade. 

#morecompetitionformls

Anyone who thinks players will choose MLS because of lifestyle don't realize how much money talks. And thats 250m over 16 teams. 

Getting tougher and tougher to compete on a global stage.

http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Deals/Li-confirms-1.26B-deal-to-carry-China-Super-League-games


----------



## eric the midget

Here's a little graph I came up with showing league attendance since its inception. Thought some of you may enjoy it as well.


----------



## SounderBruce

eric the midget said:


> Here's a little graph I came up with showing league attendance since its inception. Thought some of you may enjoy it as well.


Two things that really stand out: the Sounders keep pushing higher and higher and that Chivas dip in their final two seasons.


----------



## HB07

GunnerJacket said:


> ??
> 
> Rather early to judge. 2 of the 4 so far sold out and Seattle was a 'paltry' 39 k, 2k+ below their norm. That leaves only DC as the one lagging, and they were coming off f bad weather so I give them a little leeway.


For DC, it's a bit disapointing, because the team is doing very well in MLS and Concacaf CL.
If it's a matter of bad weather, maybe they should think about an all-covered seats stadium with a better confort for fans.


----------



## Guest

HB07 said:


> For DC, it's a bit disapointing, because the team is doing very well in MLS and Concacaf CL.
> If it's a matter of bad weather, maybe they should think about an all-covered seats stadium with a better confort for fans.


Like the new stadium you mean? :cheers: Dont worry, theyve been thinking about it for a long time. But it looks as if it will be a reality at some point soon...ish.


----------



## slipperydog

5portsF4n said:


> Like the new stadium you mean? :cheers: Dont worry, theyve been thinking about it for a long time. But it looks as if it will be a reality at some point soon...ish.


The seats will not be fully covered in the new stadium. In fact, the supporters end will be completely exposed to the elements.


----------



## Guest

Oh, right. Thought i rememebred a full roof from the renders, guess not.


----------



## Guest

Great playoffs so far. Seattle. Dallas. Wow.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Indeed. And I think the fans have responded well. Most every game has featured full stands and solid atmosphere.

I know the ratings will suck compared to the almighty NFL but I've been riveted.


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^All SSS Conference Finals. Also, Portland is the only non-original franchise left in the field.


----------



## eric the midget

Out of curiosity, why is there such a long break between the conference semi-finals and the conference finals? I would think the MLS could build more momentum interest-wise if the games were closer together.


----------



## slipperydog

eric the midget said:


> Out of curiosity, why is there such a long break between the conference semi-finals and the conference finals? I would think the MLS could build more momentum interest-wise if the games were closer together.


Next weekend is an international break.


----------



## eric the midget

Oh, ok. Thanks, was unaware.


----------



## The Game Is Up

*Deal to build MLS stadium hits major roadblock*

http://www.local10.com/sports/deal-to-build-mls-stadium-hits-major-roadblock/36289274


*Landowners put up tough fight against Miami Beckham group*

http://www.local10.com/sports/landowners-put-up-tough-fight-against-miami-beckham-group/36306260


*Day care owner not budging in MLS stadium deal*

http://www.local10.com/sports/day-care-owner-not-budging-in-mls-stadium-deal/36348942


*Leiweke envisions top-caliber franchise in Miami*

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/mls/article43658913.html


----------



## carlosfng

slipperydog said:


> Count me among those who won't be all that bothered if the Miami deal falls apart.


I know many won't. But it will suck for MLS: if this falls apart, yet another generation of South Floridians will either keep being fans of foreign soccer leagues, or just be fans of other sports (i.e. the Heat).
In fact, I would say the Miami Question for MLS is analogous to the LA Question for the NFL. Huge potential markets without a team. NFL is doing something about their problem, will MLS as well? This Miami Beckham thing is having every problem imaginable.
Funny enough, as awful as NASL is, at least they have a team in the area and plan to have another one.


----------



## Guest

carlosfng said:


> I know many won't. But it will suck for MLS: if this falls apart, yet another generation of South Floridians will either keep being fans of foreign soccer leagues, or just be fans of other sports (i.e. the Heat).
> In fact, I would say the Miami Question for MLS is analogous to the LA Question for the NFL. Huge potential markets without a team. NFL is doing something about their problem, will MLS as well? This Miami Beckham thing is having every problem imaginable.
> Funny enough, as awful as NASL is, at least they have a team in the area and plan to have another one.


Miami will get it one day. But I'd have no qualms about them being 30th on the list. Sure, come in 10 years down the line. But no sleep will be lost if Miami doesn't get a team in the next decade.

Vast majority of MLS fans support other teams in foreign leagues. That's not the issue. It's about changing the perception of MLS among soccer fans. That won't come just by having a team in the city. It'll happen as the league's capacity to bring in better players increases.


----------



## Chevy114

Any chance of OC playing any games in Tampa to try and win us over more?


----------



## GunnerJacket

The Game Is Up said:


> *Deal to build MLS stadium hits major roadblock*
> 
> http://www.local10.com/sports/deal-to-build-mls-stadium-hits-major-roadblock/36289274
> 
> 
> *Landowners put up tough fight against Miami Beckham group*
> 
> http://www.local10.com/sports/landowners-put-up-tough-fight-against-miami-beckham-group/36306260
> 
> 
> *Day care owner not budging in MLS stadium deal*
> 
> http://www.local10.com/sports/day-care-owner-not-budging-in-mls-stadium-deal/36348942
> 
> 
> *Leiweke envisions top-caliber franchise in Miami*
> 
> http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/mls/article43658913.html


Sticking with current cinema themes - Good grief.



carlosfng said:


> In fact, I would say the Miami Question for MLS is analogous to the LA Question for the NFL. Huge potential markets without a team. NFL is doing something about their problem, will MLS as well? This Miami Beckham thing is having every problem imaginable.


The NFL has the advantage of being the NFL, where everyone in the community wants to make it happen so it's just a matter of figuring out where. MLS doesn't carry the cachet or the overwhelming unanimous support, so it's viewed simply as an interloper. 

But this goes to show that the league and prospective owners need to be more thoughtful and proactive about securing proper venues _BEFORE_ making official announcements. At least least secure conditional commitment contracts on property that's viable, so that you're shown as someone actively engaged and knowledgeable of the community. Announcing Beckham Utd. and saying they've chosen Miami sets all the wrong vibes, as if the city is simply supposed to fall in line with David's wishes. 

More importantly, given how Miami as a market has proven to be a sensitive player in the sports scene they should've been much more proactive behind the scenes before anything was announced. Alas. 



Chevy114 said:


> Any chance of OC playing any games in Tampa to try and win us over more?


Not sure what that would bring OCSC, other than animosity from the Rowdies.


----------



## Chevy114

GunnerJacket said:


> Not sure what that would bring OCSC, other than animosity from the Rowdies.


I'm torn because NASL isn't MLS no matter how hard they try. Yet at the same time Rowdies fans were pissed when OC got the MLS bid over them. Just thought it would be cool to see 2 mls teams play at Raymond James Stadium again.


----------



## GunnerJacket

I hope the Rowdies prosper in one league or another - A great brand unique to American soccer. But it may take time and a shake up before there's an avenue for TB and OCSC to cross swords on a regular basis. Maybe you need an all-Florida preseason tournament!


----------



## master_klon

Why won't Miami issue a CPO for the landowners that aren't willing to negotiate a reasonable rate?


----------



## Sportsfan

master_klon said:


> Why won't Miami issue a CPO for the landowners that aren't willing to negotiate a reasonable rate?


Because everyone should have the right to say "No" whether the offer is reasonable or not.


----------



## GunnerJacket

master_klon said:


> Why won't Miami issue a CPO for the landowners that aren't willing to negotiate a reasonable rate?


I could be mistaken but I think Florida is among those states that passed a law forbidding use of eminent domain for anything but civic uses, such as schools, roads, etc. Projects for pure economic development require landowners to sell by choice.


----------



## Chevy114

GunnerJacket said:


> I hope the Rowdies prosper in one league or another - A great brand unique to American soccer. But it may take time and a shake up before there's an avenue for TB and OCSC to cross swords on a regular basis. Maybe you need an all-Florida preseason tournament!


They did play in a preseason game, but Tampa also played some college and another minor league Tampa team.

I think with OC getting MLS, Tampa stays NASL. I also think having the stadium in the "hipster" part of downtown St. Pete will keep them thriving on that level. If we ever go MLS we might need to move to Tampa to fill enough seats like we have with hockey. 

Side question is it common for teams to own a bar near their stadium like the Rowdies do?:


----------



## ielag

Chevy114 said:


> I'm torn because NASL isn't MLS no matter how hard they try. Yet at the same time Rowdies fans were pissed when OC got the MLS bid over them. Just thought it would be cool to see 2 mls teams play at Raymond James Stadium again.


The Rowdies were never in talks for an MLS expansion team. Their new owner that took over a couple years ago has done some good things though.


----------



## krudmonk

carlosfng said:


> I know many won't. But it will suck for MLS: if this falls apart, yet another generation of South Floridians will either keep being fans of foreign soccer leagues, or just be fans of other sports (i.e. the Heat).
> In fact, I would say the Miami Question for MLS is analogous to the LA Question for the NFL. Huge potential markets without a team. NFL is doing something about their problem, will MLS as well? This Miami Beckham thing is having every problem imaginable.
> Funny enough, as awful as NASL is, at least they have a team in the area and plan to have another one.


Just going by market size, Miami/LA is an absurd comparison.

Furthermore, every South Florida team has the stigma of lukewarm support, deserved or not. NFL in Los Angeles is a no-brainer; whereas, MLS in Miami seems more of a head-slapper. 

Goldibecks failing to get a stadium will not suck for MLS at all. There are markets lined up to take that spot.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Spend It Like Beckham: Tax Deal Could Bring MLS Soccer To Miami

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyph...ham-tax-deal-could-bring-mls-soccer-to-miami/


Beckham Group Has Until December 5 to Present Stadium Plans to MLS

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/b...ber-5-to-present-stadium-plans-to-mls-8053799


----------



## RMB2007

> David Beckham has found a site for his soccer stadium, and it isn’t next to Marlins Park.
> 
> Instead, Beckham partner Tim Leiweke told CNBC yesterday that “I think we have found a site” that is “probably different than what people think we’re doing.” He said that the group would know within days if they have a deal.
> 
> Dade schools Superintendent Alberto Carvalho told the Herald that he didn’t know where Beckham’s new site is, but it is privately owned.


www.thenextmiami.com/16551-2/


----------



## will101

GunnerJacket said:


> Seriously, Becks, just stop. No more press announcements until you've achieved finality with something. Please.


You're kidding, right? The man is the Kardashian of the soccer world. Even his wife is jealous of his ability to stay in the spotlight for no reason.


----------



## pesto

slipperydog said:


> The club sent out an email for the Jan 7 event entitled "LAFC Takes Flight".
> 
> :angel1:


OK, so the hints are that the logo may have something to do with flying; red will be more prominent than black and gold; and it may be deco ("classic Hollywood")?


----------



## slipperydog

pesto said:


> OK, so the hints are that the logo may have something to do with flying; red will be more prominent than black and gold; and it may be deco ("classic Hollywood")?


The thing about the red came out in an article last week, but I'm hearing that could be a misdirection.


----------



## RMB2007

> Concept Designs Unveiled for New Sacramento MLS Stadium







































http://builtforsacramento.com/


----------



## RMB2007

Kinda reminds me of a previous DC United design, which ended up being ditched for something truly crap. Hopefully the same thing doesn't happen in Sacramento.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Re: Sacramento stadium concept - 
On the whole I think it's great. It's tough to be incredibly original given the marginal capacities that MLS venues are seeking, so what matters here is keeping it honest and efficient while exuding some sense of quality, and I think this does the job well. It's a nice, playful and artistic way of providing a very cheap exterior, delivering a quality interior bowl that even appears to have room for some expansion. 

My only misgiving is the possible openings in the end stands (like shown below) that break up the section. Maybe those are merely additional banners but I'm fearful those are exaggerated perches for accommodating handicapped seating. I'd rather the end sections simply spanned the entire endlines as solid blocks.

Otherwise I'd call it an attractive addition to the league.


RMB2007 said:


> http://builtforsacramento.com/


Now I wish that the women's world cup or a smaller FIFA event would come to the States (again) and feature just MLS venues.


----------



## carlosfng

^^ Maybe they are party decks? Hopefully not, and they are flags as you say.

Otherwise, completely agreed. Not too small, cozy but also featuring an airy façade and roof, good crowd distribution (big end stands for the ardent supporters, VIPs only atop the side stands), even room for expansion by developing the corner sections. Do hope it gets built that way.


----------



## carlosfng

Finally, I have news to share before someone else heh:

http://www.thenextmiami.com/this-is-the-property-that-beckham-is-rumored-to-be-eyeing-for-stadium/


This Is The Site That Beckham Is Now Rumored To Be Eyeing For A Stadium
By TNM Staff on December 1, 2015

A vacant lot near a Metrorail station is now rumored to be the site that David Beckham is near a deal to build a soccer stadium on.

The privately owned property is located at 650 NW 8th Street. It is small, at just 4.2 acres, but Beckham’s previously rejected proposal for a stadium at Museum Park was on an identically sized footprint. Another vacant property is also listed for sale across the street.

The surrounding area includes low-income housing projects, the historic Spring Garden neighborhood with million dollar homes, and marine industry.

Culmer Metrorail station is less than a quarter mile away. Two upcoming megaprojects, Miami Worldcenter and All Aboard Florida’s MiamiCentral, are just a 15-minute walk away.

Windsor Capital Corporation, led by Roland DiGasbarro, acquired the site in a distressed note sale from Lehman Brothers. It last sold for $12.5 million in 2009.

Earlier this year, Windsor applied to build a 633-unit residential project on the site that the developer said would help promote Metrorail ridership.



---

According to the comments section, the lot itself is good (well, just as big as the earlier proposal - forget that UM deal then), and the proximity to Metrorail (0.3 miles) is a huge plus. On the downsides, it seems the streets are narrow, and that the rich old neighborhood is across the river - nearby instead it is low income and dangerous. All in all, to be honest, Marlins Park surroundings aren't all that fancy either. And I guess I could see it working, but it better be more than erector sets - as the area isn't that nice, the stadium will have to make it look nice...


----------



## jbradway

The Sacramento City council just unanimously voted for the preliminary term sheet to build the stadium. Pretty much in the hands of the MLS for expansion as a next step. When the vice mayor asked those in the audience who supported the term sheet please stand. About 75 people stood up. When he asked who opposed, not one person stood up.


----------



## carnifex2005

So pathetic that MLS is still trying to force a team into a city that clearly doesn't care or want the team there while Sacramento is doing everything right.


----------



## will101

GunnerJacket said:


> Re: Sacramento stadium concept -
> My only misgiving is the possible openings in the end stands (like shown below) that break up the section. Maybe those are merely additional banners but I'm fearful those are exaggerated perches for accommodating handicapped seating. I'd rather the end sections simply spanned the entire endlines as solid blocks.
> 
> Otherwise I'd call it an attractive addition to the league.


Sacramento needs those gaps in the stands for air circulation. A majority of summer days have highs in the 90s and 100s, and it doesn't have the sea breezes that the Bay Area does. So without the gaps, the place would just be a big frying pan.


----------



## GunnerJacket

carlosfng said:


> http://www.thenextmiami.com/this-is-the-property-that-beckham-is-rumored-to-be-eyeing-for-stadium/
> 
> 
> This Is The Site That Beckham Is Now Rumored To Be Eyeing For A Stadium
> By TNM Staff on December 1, 2015


Interesting. The lot itself does look like they might/could/possibly squeeze a (very) intimate stadium onto the site, much like at the Marlins Park property, but this option lacks the adjacent parking deck to aid the appeal. Most assuredly they'd have to by additional land for parking and other amenities to allow this property to be maxed out as a stadium.

I'd also be curious to see the plans for the area and how adding such a venue might impact development. Is the N. River Dr. corridor intended for possible commercial activity in the area, since that would be the ideal complement to an active stadium? Are the sidewalks wide enough for the suggested volume of folks that would walk from the rail station?

It holds promise, though. 



carnifex2005 said:


> So pathetic that MLS is still trying to force a team into a city that clearly doesn't care or want the team there while Sacramento is doing everything right.


Well, to be fair when MLS made the Miami announcement Sacramento was no where near as far along as they are now. If anything it's probable that in seeing Miami struggle to complete their vision the folks at Sacramento have become galvanized to act as swiftly and decisively as we've seen. They saw the opportunity, and I for one, expect their efforts will be rewarded in due time.

Meanwhile, I'm not going to say the whole of Miami doesn't want an MLS franchise because I think that different leaders for both the team and the community would yield dramatically different results. By all accounts Beckham is directing the team activities in their search for a venue and meeting with the locals, and this is something beyond his wheelhouse. Something with a more intimate knowledge of local politics and real estate surely would've moved more quickly and effectively than a mere figurehead. 

Granted, it was foolish for MLS to (essentially) pick Beckham and _then_ let him pick a city. That approach meant no matter where he went the city would be receiving something from the outside as opposed to building locally from within. That's surely one reason the grass roots support has been encumbered.



will101 said:


> Sacramento needs those gaps in the stands for air circulation. A majority of summer days have highs in the 90s and 100s, and it doesn't have the sea breezes that the Bay Area does. So without the gaps, the place would just be a big frying pan.


I'm not speaking about the openings in the corners but rather the two gray blocks that show on either side of the tifo in the picture I quoted. Even if openings those are too small to do anything effective regarding circulation, and there are other, larger solid stands in the building suggesting that you could get away with something similar at the ends. 

If they can't build a solid stand along each end (finding other ways to improve ventilation) then I'd seriously question either the architects or whether the climate is fit for outdoor sports. Last I checked this wasn't Qatar! :cheers:


----------



## Chevy114

This is what we need more of, cities that care, not forcing 2nd teams in cities where they don't have stadiums for the teams.


----------



## ElDudarinodotcom

Haha...how did that huge city appear in West Sacramento? :lol:

Love the design as is. This would be a huge boost to the rail-yard development. 



RMB2007 said:


> http://builtforsacramento.com/


----------



## Welkin

GunnerJacket said:


> Re: Sacramento stadium concept -
> On the whole I think it's great. It's tough to be incredibly original given the marginal capacities that MLS venues are seeking, so what matters here is keeping it honest and efficient while exuding some sense of quality, and I think this does the job well. It's a nice, playful and artistic way of providing a very cheap exterior, delivering a quality interior bowl that even appears to have room for some expansion.
> 
> My only misgiving is the possible openings in the end stands (like shown below) that break up the section. Maybe those are merely additional banners but I'm fearful those are exaggerated perches for accommodating handicapped seating. I'd rather the end sections simply spanned the entire endlines as solid blocks.
> 
> Otherwise I'd call it an attractive addition to the league.
> 
> 
> *Now I wish that the women's world cup or a smaller FIFA event would come to the States (again) and feature just MLS venues.[/QUOTE*]
> 
> Nothing like insulting the Women's game. BTW, the recent 2015 Women's World Cup in Canada had seven matches that drew over 50,000 fans and the average of 26,000 per match (still bigger than most all MLS stadiums) had more to do with matches played in some smaller venues rather than fan interest. A Women's World Cup in the States would easily draw 50,000-60,000+ for every match (again way more than MLS stadiums).


----------



## GunnerJacket

Oh good grief. I'm well aware of the range the US women would fill and that plenty of games with "off brand" nations realized much smaller crowds. I was merely typing spur-of-the-moment and trying to talk up MLS, especially with an eye toward the future when (hopefully) some MLS venues will be larger still. But to appease the literalists I'll amend my statement to say "...and feature some MLS venues." Happy?


----------



## carlosfng

^^ Agree. Plus, I don't know if a women's WC would draw upwards of 50k in _every_ match. Not even in the more popular men's tournament's last edition were all the stadia above 50k in capacity; nor were they all full _every_ single game. That being said, the US is the largest market in the world, has many large stadia, and is probably the place where soccer is played by women the most. So a WC there would definitely bring record crowds, even if including _some_ MLS stadia. Perhaps for a "just MLS" requirement, something like the U-17 WC may be good.

About the new spot in Miami for Beckham's stadium, the article mentions there is a vacant plot next to the one they are eyeing. Maybe they will build parking there? The special emphasis on the Metrorail being close perhaps means that this wont be the case, as rail commuting would be the way most fans get there - perhaps also appeasing to the city officials who want the service used more. I do hope, like you, that more amenities and some commercial development happen - like I said, the area is not that commercial, in fact it straddles between an old rich residential neighborhood and the low income (also residential) western borders of Overtown. From what I see as well, the streets are not too wide (as always, Miami cares for cars over pedestrians). It does seem like that corridor you mention has some restaurants and marinas, but also close to the stadium there are things like a body shop and what not. Thus, like I said, it'll have to be the stadium to make the area relevant. It'll be interesting to see that happening in the limited space they have. And again, it is not that different from the Marlins Park site - except, like you said, there's no Marlins next door to add value (though then again, they don't steal the spotlight either).

And I think Beckham is doing what he can, considering he is a total outsider to the city and a total novice in running a sports team; not to mention building one up from the ground. In fact, I'd argue that a lot of soccer fans in the South Florida area aren't that big fans of his (they'd prefer some La Liga, Serie A, or South American star). Thus I agree with you saying MLS was foolish to pick him, or rather pick him and let him choose the city. If MLS had given the franchise to Miamian investors (perhaps those who run the Heat), or if Beckham had chosen to ally with said investors and had just remained a figurehead, things would have been different.


----------



## waas1492

Chevy114 said:


> This is what we need more of, cities that care, not forcing 2nd teams in cities where they don't have stadiums for the teams.


Are you referring to NYCFC, which had the 3rd highest attendance in the league? I think, for all the grief caused by sharing with the Yankees may cause, attendance like that for such a losing team has got to go down as a win.


----------



## waas1492

carlosfng said:


> ^^ Agree. Plus, I don't know if a women's WC would draw upwards of 50k in _every_ match. Not even in the more popular men's tournament's last edition were all the stadia above 50k in capacity; nor were they all full _every_ single game. That being said, the US is the largest market in the world, has many large stadia, and is probably the place where soccer is played by women the most. So a WC there would definitely bring record crowds, even if including _some_ MLS stadia. Perhaps for a "just MLS" requirement, something like the U-17 WC may be good.
> 
> About the new spot in Miami for Beckham's stadium, the article mentions there is a vacant plot next to the one they are eyeing. Maybe they will build parking there? The special emphasis on the Metrorail being close perhaps means that this wont be the case, as rail commuting would be the way most fans get there - perhaps also appeasing to the city officials who want the service used more. I do hope, like you, that more amenities and some commercial development happen - like I said, the area is not that commercial, in fact it straddles between an old rich residential neighborhood and the low income (also residential) western borders of Overtown. From what I see as well, the streets are not too wide (as always, Miami cares for cars over pedestrians). It does seem like that corridor you mention has some restaurants and marinas, but also close to the stadium there are things like a body shop and what not. Thus, like I said, it'll have to be the stadium to make the area relevant. It'll be interesting to see that happening in the limited space they have. And again, it is not that different from the Marlins Park site - except, like you said, there's no Marlins next door to add value (though then again, they don't steal the spotlight either).
> 
> And I think Beckham is doing what he can, considering he is a total outsider to the city and a total novice in running a sports team; not to mention building one up from the ground. In fact, I'd argue that a lot of soccer fans in the South Florida area aren't that big fans of his (they'd prefer some La Liga, Serie A, or South American star). Thus I agree with you saying MLS was foolish to pick him, or rather pick him and let him choose the city. If MLS had given the franchise to Miamian investors (perhaps those who run the Heat), or if Beckham had chosen to ally with said investors and had just remained a figurehead, things would have been different.


Is it possible that MLS would go after the land south of there? It looks like it is City owned utility offices and some singularly private land to the east. Partners?

Thats a relatively nice location. Near the river, half a block from public transit. It could work. But the other 3 options should have worked too.


----------



## carlosfng

^^ I don't know, because them choosing a private site for the first time does makes you think they are tired of trying to deal with public land (and public institutions, for that matter). I do think the private land you mention they might eye as well, the "other vacant lot" described in the news piece.

I think NYCFC "surprisingly" has that attendance mainly because they are after all a top division (including star talent like Villa) soccer team inside a humongous multicultural city. Not in NJ or Long Island, like NYRB or Cosmos. And they are in said city's most recognized sports venue; unfitting as it is for soccer, they do benefit from everyone knowing where Yankee Stadium is. Thus, if they build an urban SSS soon, they may be hitting gold. They are run by sheikhs as well, lest we forget.


----------



## Welkin

GunnerJacket said:


> Oh good grief. I'm well aware of the range the US women would fill and that plenty of games with "off brand" nations realized much smaller crowds. I was merely typing spur-of-the-moment and trying to talk up MLS, especially with an eye toward the future when (hopefully) some MLS venues will be larger still. But to appease the literalists I'll amend my statement to say "...and feature some MLS venues." Happy?


Geez, I am sorry. I didn't mean to get your panties in a wad. I just thought maybe you were ignorant to the level of attendance the Women's World Cup drew. BTW it is nice that you were trying to talk up the MLS. That is something we should all strive to do on this site. Go TFC.


----------



## master_klon

carlosfng said:


> They are run by sheikhs as well, lest we forget.


...and just recently Chinese investor groups CMC and CITIC Capital bought a 13% stake in City Football Group (CFG).

Hopefully something comes through in the next year for NYCFC. I'm not sure how much patience their supporters as well as the Yankees will have, but if they do not find the right location then they might lose a large amount of their supporters anyway. The main reason they are able to draw the numbers they get now is because of the location and transport options. I read this article recently which explains the problems of the past proposals as well as the current situation quite well.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Welkin said:


> Geez, I am sorry. I didn't mean to get your panties in a wad. I just thought maybe you were ignorant to the level of attendance the Women's World Cup drew. *BTW it is nice that you were trying to talk up the MLS. That is something we should all strive to do on this site.* Go TFC.


Agreed, so we'll put our little touchiness behind us and move forward. Certainly nothing personal intended.

I know I, for one, am looking forward to visiting Toronto when Atlanta United join the league considering how much the Reds have helped push the league forward with their stadium investment. Perhaps someday I can buy you a drink and we'll talk up MLS even more.

Cheers! :cheers:


----------



## slipperydog

Looks like the league's threats are working...Beckham willing to go private now.

Beckham closes in on Overtown site for soccer stadium

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article47939140.html


----------



## Chevy114

waas1492 said:


> Are you referring to NYCFC, which had the 3rd highest attendance in the league? I think, for all the grief caused by sharing with the Yankees may cause, attendance like that for such a losing team has got to go down as a win.


No LAFC, but my issue with NYFC is that they don't have a stadium, how can a team without a proper stadium get a team faster than a city doing it the right way?


----------



## RMB2007

> After a two-year-long search, retired English soccer star David Beckham and a team of investors said on Friday they had secured a site in Miami where they hope to build an arena for a Major League Soccer team.
> 
> Miami Beckham United said in a statement that most of the nine-acre tract just west of Interstate 95 in the urban Overtown neighborhood was private property that it had under contract to buy for an undisclosed sum.
> 
> Miami-Dade County owns the remainder of the land, which the group said it plans to buy at "fair market value" once the site is approved by the MLS Board of Governors, which is expected to meet on Saturday.
> 
> The league's Commissioner Don Garber said this week that if a deal for a stadium could not be finalized, then Miami was not going to have a MLS team.
> 
> "We appreciate the support and patience of our fans who share David's dream of fielding a world-class soccer club in Miami," Miami Beckham United said. "We've never been closer to making that vision a reality."
> 
> The move caps nearly two years of failed efforts by Beckham, American Idol founder Simon Fuller and Sprint chief executive Marcelo Claure to secure public land for the nearly $250 million, 30,000-seat stadium.


www.eurosport.co.uk/football/david-...r-miami-soccer-stadium_sto5015377/story.shtml


----------



## SounderBruce

This is starting to mirror what the European rumor mill for players is like. Find a club, say some reports about him being signed, then nothing happens. Rinse and repeat.


----------



## Welkin

RMB2007 said:


> www.eurosport.co.uk/football/david-...r-miami-soccer-stadium_sto5015377/story.shtml


I thought Overtown was a really bad section of Miami. Is there anyone on this site from the area that knows about that part of the city. Has the city refurbished the area and brought in new development since the 1980's riots? It just seems like an odd choice for a location of a soccer stadium.


----------



## master_klon




----------



## master_klon

Welkin said:


> I thought Overtown was a really bad section of Miami. Is there anyone on this site from the area that knows about that part of the city. Has the city refurbished the area and brought in new development since the 1980's riots? It just seems like an odd choice for a location of a soccer stadium.


Not the kind of neighbourhood you would like to spend much time in, but a good location for the stadium nonetheless. Overtown hasn't yet gone under much gentrification, but I can see it coming in the near future. 

MiamiCentral, which is under construction, is less than a 15min walk from the stadium site, and the Brightline train service pictured below will begin operating in 2017...










Also less than 1km east of the stadium is the site for the proposed Miami World Center.


----------



## slipperydog

Was the Sacramento stadium plan dependent on entering the MLS? Because if so, that proposal might have to be tabled now.


----------



## krudmonk

slipperydog said:


> Was the Sacramento stadium plan dependent on entering the MLS? Because if so, that proposal might have to be tabled now.


It is dependent on MLS, but league expansion is not stopping just because Miami finally made it in. Official MLS outlets like their website and social media accounts still publish SRFC news, and will continue to do so.


----------



## Hia-leah JDM

Welkin said:


> I thought Overtown was a really bad section of Miami. Is there anyone on this site from the area that knows about that part of the city. Has the city refurbished the area and brought in new development since the 1980's riots? It just seems like an odd choice for a location of a soccer stadium.


Orlando's new stadium is being built in an equally impoverished and sketchy area. 

It's a rough part of town but it has some really good things going for it. As the previous poster noted, there are some huge developments (Miami Central & World Center) under construction nearby that were already gonna change the neighborhood. 

It's also 2 blocks north of a burgeoning river district that already has some of the best restaurants in town where you regularly see celebrities and athletes hang out.


----------



## Juanpabloangel

If the stadiums are built in less favoured neighbourhoods, they will be cheaper and have a supply of prospective employees who I would guess welcome the investment including the construction jobs. Many stadiums in the world have been been built in less well off areas.

It is good from a point of transport provision and urban planning in my opinion.


----------



## Juanpabloangel

The supporters train trip from Miami to Orlando and vice versa could be epic!


----------



## Guest

This looks great if it works out. 

Seems like a decent location from the aerial map. Privately owned. 30,000 capacity (yeesh, but ok). All good if they can finalize it.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Welkin said:


> I thought Overtown was a really bad section of Miami. Is there anyone on this site from the area that knows about that part of the city. Has the city refurbished the area and brought in new development since the 1980's riots? It just seems like an odd choice for a location of a soccer stadium.


Only way I can help with this:



> Amused by the knocks on Beckham's Overtown site as "rough." Lived right there on the river for 7 years. Jogged past the site daily. Relax.


https://twitter.com/robertandrewp/status/672843008644014081

The guy is, to my knowledge, one of the most trustworthy soccer journalists, and he crtainly isn't a Beckham sympathiser.


----------



## jbradway

krudmonk said:


> It is dependent on MLS, but league expansion is not stopping just because Miami finally made it in. Official MLS outlets like their website and social media accounts still publish SRFC news, and will continue to do so.


Depends on what the MLS does with the expansion plans. If they settle in on Miami and then table the discussion of expansion for 2 or 3 years, then a lot of the momentum will certainly be lost in Sacramento.


----------



## jbradway

jbradway said:


> Depends on what the MLS does with the expansion plans. If they settle in on Miami and then table the discussion of expansion for 2 or 3 years, then a lot of the momentum will certainly be lost in Sacramento.


Like I said, depends on what the MLS does with expansion plans...



> MLS announces owners support for expansion to 28 teams. Also approved Beckhams stadium site in Miami. Grant Wahl (@GrantWahl)


----------



## Guest

The support for 28 teams seems like a sop to Sacramento and co. Hopefully they buy into it.


----------



## carnifex2005

Well there is Sacremento, the Spurs buying the Scorpions stadium in San Antonio to make that eventually into a MLS team. You also have the possibility if St. Louis loses their football team, possible dollars to get a MLS stadium in that market and Detroit, Indy, Las Vegas, Carolina among other markets wanting to get in. I'm guessing $150 million dollar expansion fee by the time that situation gets sorted out.


----------



## Guest

Yeah agreed, though I meant that it's almost like a token measure to make sure that Sacramento (in particular) stays on the right track with the stadium proposal. SA is less important because the stadium is already there. 

But will the Sac proposal hang around forever? MLS has waited long enough as is to make a call on that.


----------



## slipperydog

One of the club reps gave some supporters a sneak peak at the LAFC crest yesterday. Hearing things like "10 out of 10" and a "real head turner". One even went so far as to say it's the best logo in US sports. We'll find out whether that's hyperbole, but either way, sounds promising.


----------



## master_klon

We've done it. :colgate:


----------



## GunnerJacket

*Re: MLS to 28*
Have to imagine that number has to do with keeping the numbers even within divisions, so I suspect the candidates will be aligned accordingly. 





5portsF4n said:


> But will the Sac proposal hang around forever? MLS has waited long enough as is to make a call on that.


Waited long enough? Sacramento has been a serious contender for what, a year? And largely that came about because as MLS was letting other prospective owners dally the Republic realized they had potential so they threw their hat into the ring. I say this only to suggest I think Sacramento is moving along fine and that they're seemingly quite okay with their spot in the MLS pecking order as the next in line.


*Re: Portland wins MLS Cup*
Good for Timbers fans who should enjoy the reward for their support, and a special tip-o-the-cap to Crew fans for filling the venue and sticking it out till the end. Not exactly the finest of skill on display tonight but fun to watch near the end.


----------



## Guest

Congrats Portland. Great for the city. First championship in what? 40 years? That's fantastic, regardless of what the odd 'MLS doesn't count' brigade says. And much better than one of the unfashionable's winning (Dallas/RBNY/Columbus)


----------



## MarkJF

5portsF4n said:


> Congrats Portland. Great for the city. First championship in what? 40 years? That's fantastic, regardless of what the odd 'MLS doesn't count' brigade says. And much better than one of the unfashionable's winning (Dallas/RBNY/Columbus)


After a comical start I thought it was a good, if error strewn, game. A typical final!

I watched it with 4 others, not one derogative MLS comment was made, we just enjoyed it, the best team won.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Loved the atmosphere at the final, very oldschool. A great advert for the US soccer fan culture.


----------



## Chevy114

Congrats to the timbers and their army, they really deserved this!

as for mls expansion, I still don't get how Miami would get a team. Ft. Lauderdale has the team and even they are down at the bottom every year for NASL attendance. How is Indy or San Antonio not on the top of the MLS expansion list?


----------



## carlosfng

^^ Because Fort Lauderdale is not Miami. It is a different and smaller county, different urban and even social makeup altogether. Not nearly as many Hispanics or soccer fans in Ft Lauderdale. Smaller downtown, and most people living in sleepy suburbs (they do have a nicer beach, IMO). People in Ft Lauderdale usually have to mention they are from Miami, or from right next to Miami, or using the catch-all term "South Florida". 

As for the Strikers, they play in a small, mostly bleachers stadium in FAU; FAU being a small mostly local college, which is not in downtown either. And well, the NASL is not a sexy place to be in either. Even there, the Strikers haven't had good results in a while. A pity, because they are a historic franchise, but it doesn't seem like it has anywhere to go. Heck, NASL itself wants to establish a new Miami FC as well, in spite of the Strikers being a few miles apart (a project which sounds like a pipe dream at the moment). And both franchises will probably flounder if Beckham sets up his Miami MLS one right.


----------



## RMB2007

> Orlando City's new stadium soon to take shape as massive underground drainage system nears completion
> 
> Scott Neal has some good news for Orlando City SC fans hoping to see real progress on their new stadium: It’s about to go vertical.
> 
> The other positive aspect of the current construction process, which has now been under way in real terms for around six months, is that Neal – the venue's general manager – expects things to start taking shape rapidly once they begin the above-ground structures.
> 
> Neal and City CEO Alex Leitao toured the site last week, and it is notable how extensive and complex the whole construction process is. While little can be seen from the surrounding streets, the below-ground work is fast being completed, hence passers-by can expect to see much more happening next month and into February.


www.mlssoccer.com/post/2015/12/07/o...ape-massive-underground-drainage-system-nears


----------



## Lumbergo

carlosfng said:


> ^^ Because Fort Lauderdale is not Miami. It is a different and smaller county, different urban and even social makeup altogether. Not nearly as many Hispanics or soccer fans in Ft Lauderdale. Smaller downtown, and most people living in sleepy suburbs (they do have a nicer beach, IMO). People in Ft Lauderdale usually have to mention they are from Miami, or from right next to Miami, or using the catch-all term "South Florida". As for the Strikers, they play in a small, mostly bleachers stadium in FAU; FAU being a small mostly local college, which is not in downtown either. And well, the NASL is not a sexy place to be in either. Even there, the Strikers haven't had good results in a while. A pity, because they are a historic franchise, but it doesn't seem like it has anywhere to go. Heck, NASL itself wants to establish a new Miami FC as well, in spite of the Strikers being a few miles apart (a project which sounds like a pipe dream at the moment). And both franchises will probably flounder if Beckham sets up his Miami MLS one right.


Actually they play where FAU used to play - FAU has it's own on campus stadium now - I guess 30,000 students makes it a small school as well...

Anyways, Lockhart stadium where the Strikers play is also the former home of the MLS "Miami" Fusion. Strikers new ownership has made some changes to the stadium such as installing new seats though there are bleachers in some areas. I forget the exact relationship but the owners have some kind of relationship with The Corinthians team from São Paulo, Brazil as well as their own business interests - so no matter what happens with Becks in Miami the Strikers will be sticking around for a while since they actually have some investment behind the team. Right now they are going through a rebuilding process and attempting to make the Strikers a household name once again in the south Florida region. They are in it for the long haul.


----------



## Chevy114

Sorry for the confusion. I guess my point was more how can a city who doesn't have a soccer team automatically get a soccer team? Being from Tampa I have to say it's one of the reasons (but by far not one of the top 3 reasons) our attendance stinks for the rays, we had no real minor league team to build a fan base with. 

If Miami wanted a team so bad I think they could have done it the right way. Which to me is getting a minor league team in NASL or USL prove they can get fans and then move up. They could have even lured the strikers over and built them up. 

But this once again proves I have no idea what MLS wants because they go and put a team in Orlando to prove they like mid sized untapped markets (Columbus, Salt Lake, and Portland), but then go and put another team in NYC to go after the huge over tapped markets (Houston, Montreal, and Philly). So I give up.


----------



## Guest

Strange post. Where do you want them to put teams in?

Orlando forced their way in by showing they are legit. Same with Sacramento, who will get in for no other reason than theyve shown they should be part of the league. The big markets dont have to work as hard because MLS wants presence in these cities for obvious reasons. But after Detroit and Phoenix there arent many major cities without a team, so the mid tier markets will make up most newcomers.

And Montreal is neither huge, nor overtapped.


----------



## slipperydog

> _Team President and Owner Tom Penn said the club’s stadium plan is “on track and on target” as LAFC intends to gain possession of the LA Memorial Sports Arena in May._


So demo/site prep is to begin in May 2016. Reportedly on track to open on time for March 2018.

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/20151208/lafc-hires-john-thorrington-as-vp-of-soccer-operations


----------



## carlosfng

Indeed, it is FAU's former stadium, my bad. And well, 30k is not small; but as a resident in the county FAU feels small, in that most students there are those who couldn't and/or didn't want to get to the bigger and more traditional schools in the state.

And yep, I do remember the Strikers getting some new investment, in particular Ronaldo (the awesome fat Brazilian one) I think is an investor. But I haven't heard of said investors in a while after those news, so I don't know if that is panning out - do hope they stick around, they are after all a traditional team, and are closer to where I live heh.

As for why Miami - you should know how many soccer lovers are there. And it is not huge population-wise, but it is big. So it might be mid-high size and under-tapped (not untapped, because there are other sports and teams people are fans of). In that sense, MLS looking at the area for expansion makes sense.

That being said, precisely due to the culture of Miami, it is hard to sell them an _American_ soccer team. Thus, it has to be something well done - not just a grassroots effort waiting to catch fire, but a big new shiny thing for them to root for. They already root for their big teams in Europe or their heartfelt teams in Latin America. Or they grew up very "305" and root for the Heat/Dolphins/Canes/Marlins. Thus, it isn't easy. And that is why it has to be done right. Like I said in other post as well, getting some warmer faces than just Beckham (who'd only been to Miami on vacation before launching his franchise effort) would have helped a lot.


----------



## Chevy114

5portsF4n said:


> Strange post. Where do you want them to put teams in?
> 
> Orlando forced their way in by showing they are legit. Same with Sacramento, who will get in for no other reason than theyve shown they should be part of the league. The big markets dont have to work as hard because MLS wants presence in these cities for obvious reasons. But after Detroit and Phoenix there arent many major cities without a team, so the mid tier markets will make up most newcomers.
> 
> And Montreal is neither huge, nor overtapped.


Sorry about Montreal I got a roll lol

I want teams in Indy, San Antonio, Sacramento, Louisville, and St. Louis. 

I have heard more about a potential team in Miami than the 2 that are coming to Atlanta and Minnesota in the next 2 years. That's my gripe Miami hasn't had a team minor league or pro, so there is no proof they will do well with attendance. Seriously the media makes it sound like Miami has a better chance to get an MLS team than Sacramento does and we all agree that Sacramento is the most deserving out there. How is any of this fair when we have deserving cities averaging 5K plus to watch minor league soccer. Nothing sounds worse to most Americans than minor league soccer, yet the 5 teams I named found a way to average over 5K people a game.


----------



## pistola916

slipperydog said:


> One of the club reps gave some supporters a sneak peak at the LAFC crest yesterday. Hearing things like "10 out of 10" and a "real head turner". One even went so far as to say it's the best logo in US sports. We'll find out whether that's hyperbole, but either way, sounds promising.


any idea what the MLS team in LA will be called? As a Sacramento Republic fan and MLS hopeful, I hope they don't steal the Republic name, because LA Republic sounds like a really nice name to it. hno:


----------



## RMB2007

> Minnesota United FC today announced it has selected Mortenson Construction, a leading builder of sports facilities in the U.S., as the construction manager for the team's planned $120 million, 20,000-seat stadium in St. Paul, Minnesota. The stadium will be the home for Major League Soccer (MLS) in the state of Minnesota.
> 
> Construction on the stadium is planned to begin in 2016.


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/minnesota-united-fc-selects-mortenson-173600219.html


----------



## Aécio Neves

Beatiful stadiuns


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## dinamo_zagreb

pesto said:


> Time to forget Croatian and learn Spanish. :lol:


I speak it already.


----------



## aaronniuk

https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/crowdfunding-new-stadium-detroit-soccer

Stadium subsidies aren’t what they used to be. In Hamtramck, Michigan, an enclave in the middle of Detroit, a historic stadium is eyed as the new home of the Detroit City Football Club, a semi-pro soccer team. But rather than rely on traditional public funding for the rehabilitation, organizers are crowdfunding between $750,000 and $1 million. Called a “community investment campaign,” the money is not a donation. It buys fans a tiered-level loan that will be repaid from the soccer club’s future revenue — with interest.

The DCFC campaign, hosted on MichiganFunders.com, raised $250,000 from 125 investors in one month. While that cash doesn’t become liquid for DCFC until it hits $400,000, the organization will begin early work on the stadium, funded by its own reserves. It expects to open the 2016 soccer season in May with the first phrase of construction completed. One of the earliest matches is on May 28 against FC United of Manchester, which is owned and operated by community supporters — a similar funding model in England. This will be Manchester’s first match in the U.S. As a perk, investors in the Keyworth project will get a ticket to the game.


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## carlosfng

Quite interesting to see how crowdfunding made it to football. Although the article perhaps could delve more into FC Utd's story, it is quite great to see something that decades ago was common - fans being owners of clubs...
Kudos for Detroit City as well. Thinking of their name, maybe they could get some sponsorship from the band Kiss? Yeah, I know it is a long shot (Stanley and Simmons probably would like to buy them out heh), but it is something that crossed my mind heh.


----------



## The Game Is Up

David Beckham's MLS Miami Stadium Expected to Cost $220M

http://miami.curbed.com/archives/2015/12/18/david-beckham-mls-miami-stadium-overtown-220-million.php


Miami Beckham United will not build parking for soccer stadium

http://www.local10.com/sports/soccer/miami-beckham-united-will-not-build-parking-for-soccer-stadium


MLS at TCF? U official says there have been preliminary talks

http://www.startribune.com/mls-at-tcf-u-official-says-there-have-been-preliminary-talks/362977701/


----------



## RMB2007

> New Details About Beckham’s $220 Million Overtown Stadium


Concept image:












> Tim Leiweke of Miami Beckham United gave a presentation tonight on what the group is planning for a new soccer stadium.
> 
> It will be built without parking garages. The focus is on being pedestrian and mass transit friendly, and they count almost 7,000 spaces already in the area.
> 
> Cost is expected to be about $220 million. A new financial backer will be announced soon.
> 
> There will be about 25,000 seats.
> 
> Seats will be covered by a roof. They want the field itself to be under open air for a quality natural turf.
> 
> The stadium will be LEED certified, and the focus is on making it as environmentally friendly as possible.
> 
> They will be assessed and pay property taxes. No government or CRA subsidies whatsoever.
> 
> There won’t be a retail or restaurant component in the stadium. They want area shopping and retail to thrive, and not be contained within the stadium.


www.thenextmiami.com/beckhams-220-million-stadium-will-have-25000-covered-seats/


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## GunnerJacket

If they pull off a grade A venue without major subsidies all might very well be forgiven. At the least they would then be poised as well off as anyone could have hoped, in which case it would mean the franchise has a great chance. For their sake, fingers crossed.


----------



## Guest

Looks good. 

New financial backer announced soon? Interesting.


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## soup or man

Yes. Build that now.


----------



## The Game Is Up

David Beckham's MLS plans for Miami meet opposition

http://www.local10.com/sports/david-beckhams-mls-plans-for-miami-meet-opposition


Taxpayers foot bill for ‘Spursy’ soccer deal

http://watchdog.org/252301/taxpayers-soccer-spurs/


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## vanbasten88

eric the midget said:


> Looks good to me. An improvement for sure.


Its growing on me. I'm not an instant convert. Okay, so what news (if any) about DC United's stadium?


----------



## slipperydog

vanbasten88 said:


> Its growing on me. I'm not an instant convert. Okay, so what news (if any) about DC United's stadium?


Lots of details here. Construction beginning this summer, opening 2018.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...zzard-point-stadium-ownership-jersey-sponsor/


----------



## aaronniuk

Goodbye to the San Antonio Scorpions

http://www.ksat.com/news/scorpions-out-as-work-begins-to-bring-new-soccer-team-to-sa


----------



## slipperydog

aaronniuk said:


> Goodbye to the San Antonio Scorpions
> 
> http://www.ksat.com/news/scorpions-out-as-work-begins-to-bring-new-soccer-team-to-sa


That city needed to come up with a better name for its club anyway.


----------



## willygtoc

How good is the location of Toyota Field?


----------



## Guest

aaronniuk said:


> Goodbye to the San Antonio Scorpions
> 
> http://www.ksat.com/news/scorpions-out-as-work-begins-to-bring-new-soccer-team-to-sa


A terrible name that had to go. Win.


----------



## Lumbergo

Not getting the name hate on San Antonio.


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> Lots of details here. Construction beginning this summer, opening 2018.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...zzard-point-stadium-ownership-jersey-sponsor/


Glad this is still moving forward, though I sure hope they end up with at least something over 20k, and hopefully close to the alleged maximum of 23k. That team will draw very well under the right conditions. But, yeah, that location is very constrained.


aaronniuk said:


> Goodbye to the San Antonio Scorpions
> 
> http://www.ksat.com/news/scorpions-out-as-work-begins-to-bring-new-soccer-team-to-sa


a) They didn't clarify how soon the new team would begin playing in USL. This, combined with the announcing they're dropping the old name but not yet citing a new name suggests to me they're taking a season off. Would hate to see that for the fans' sake, and I'm pretty warm to the notion of the Alamo City having a team.


Lumbergo said:


> Not getting the name hate on San Antonio.


I don't mind it but I can see where many folks see it as rather cheesy, and very much from the MLS 1.0 era with names like Clash, Mutiny and Burn. I wouldn't be surprised if they retained it as a passive nickname, however if they're going to change it then might as well do it now before the brand is too entrenched.


----------



## Guest

As Atlanta has shown, there's little in the way of transplanting an existing team with a new one. Brand name doesn't seem to matter for upstarts. 

If they did retain Scorpions as a nickname like Orlando, they could still retain that link in the logo. There were some cool designs doing the rounds a while back.
.


----------



## slipperydog

GunnerJacket said:


> a) They didn't clarify how soon the new team would begin playing in USL. This, combined with the announcing they're dropping the old name but not yet citing a new name suggests to me they're taking a season off. Would hate to see that for the fans' sake, and I'm pretty warm to the notion of the Alamo City having a team.


The team will begin play in March 2016.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2015/...group-launch-usl-team-2016-eyes-mls-expansion


----------



## carlosfng

Liga MX is the most watched, but Liga MX also has many "FC" names. Even though many more recent teams have incorporated their nickname into their name, and many have become franchises instead of clubs (classic Mexican affectations of American culture), there is a reason why Chivas' official name is still C.D. Guadalajara, and why the fans virulently rejected a badge change which would change the city shield in it for a goat.

Besides, European football is followed even by those who follow Liga MX. The sport was created in Europe, so inevitably its influence will be there. Sometimes, sadly so, Europhilia develops and people rather follow and invest in a team an ocean away than their hometown one a few blocks away. That I'd be wary about, instead of perennially arguing about silly naming customs that will never please anyone (as in other aspects of American culture, there seems to be no middle ground, in this case between Europhiles and 'Muricans). I suggest having both a nickname (as long as it's not silly, like KC Wizards was, or yet another United) and an FC at the end (which could look cool incorporated into the shield). But seems few share this view... a pity, since both extreme positions alienate parts of the market and are not ideal in business terms.

And so what if US Soccer had a countdown clock... the point is, unlike other American sports, soccer is ruled by a worldwide organization. And they set the rules of the game. Therefore, it is inevitable that a lot of soccer culture is also brought from outside the US, specially if soccer is brought by an immigrant population that doesn't have exactly the same culture as born and raised Americans. And some of those things are not bad - I still fail to see anything wrong with singing the anthem aloud, or bringing giant flags. That being said, there are also things that American culture influences into soccer - you'd never see in any other part of the world a man sawing off a log during a game, or a team called the Earthquakes and still sounding awesome heh.

In short, embrace compromise and the melting pot and all that, fellow Americans. South American soccer culture, with all its flaws, at least shows some compromise can be had between European imports and local traditions.


----------



## Pellshekk

krudmonk said:


> 1. LigaMX is most watched in this country, but white Anglophiles always forget that. If any league is "premier" here, it is that one.



There are probably many reasons for that, but in pure sporting terms, if you want to watch the best quality soccer in the world - by technical standards and entertainment value - you watch the European leagues. In particular, the English Premier League, and the UEFA Champions League. Unmissable skill, action and excitement in both those competitions for the purists.


----------



## pistola916

What I don't understand is why Liga MX and other Latin American futbol leagues have two seasons a year? The Apertura and Clausura. It's so weird and stupid to have two champions per calendar year.


----------



## willygtoc

pistola916 said:


> What I don't understand is why Liga MX and other Latin American futbol leagues have two seasons a year? The Apertura and Clausura. It's so weird and stupid to have two champions per calendar year.


$$$ 

2 playoffs a year with huge tv ratings.


----------



## Guest

willygtoc said:


> $$$
> 
> 2 playoffs a year with huge tv ratings.


That, and the fact that it evens the playing field half way through the season which, in the eyes of those who create the system, is good for maintaining public interest in struggling teams.


----------



## Guest

Pellshekk said:


> There are probably many reasons for that, but in pure sporting terms, if you want to watch the best quality soccer in the world - by technical standards and entertainment value - you watch the European leagues. In particular, the English Premier League, and the UEFA Champions League. Unmissable skill, action and excitement in both those competitions for the purists.


Agreed. And there's no reason to belittle these people. Like any consumer market, people will always gravitate towards the best. It's why there will never be a serious professional (American) football league outside of the NFL. It's why the basketball world revolves around the NBA. Soccer is too fragmented (still) to have that one vacuum which sucks up all the interest.

But unless the rest of the world wises up to the fact that they need to be bolder in the face of European success, they'll hand the world to them on a platter (if we're not already past that point). 

*And now for a tangent on Super Leagues...*

As with any consumer market, centralization in sport is inevitable. The best teams, and leagues, create a virtuous cycle of success that, once it really starts to snowball (as it did at in the late 90s/early 00s), becomes almost impossible to stop. 

Here's a list of European soccer clubs with more than 300,000 Facebook likes:

(in millions)
Barcelona	89
Real Madrid	85.9
Manchester United	67.3
Chelsea	44.2
Arsenal	34.2
Bayern Munich	33.7
Liverpool	26.8
AC Milan	24.6
Paris St Germain	22
Juventus	20.6
Manchester City	20
Borussia Dortmund	13.6
Galatasaray	12.6
Atletico Madrid	11.8
Fenerbache	9.7
Tottenham Hotspur	7.1
AS Roma	6.2
Besiktas	5.6
Inter Milan	5.6
Olympique Marseille	4.4
Napoli	3.6
Porto	3.4
Benfica	3.1
Monaco	3
Valencia	2.9
Schalke 04	2.7
Everton	2.3
Olmypique Lyonnais 2.3
Aston Villa	2.2
Ajax Amsterdam	2
Sporting CP Lisbon	2
Fiorentina 1.9
Bayer Leverkusen	1.8
Steaua Bucharest	1.8
Newcastle United	1.8
FC Basel	1.6
Shakhtar Donetsk	1.4
Celtic	1.4
West Ham United	1.3
Southampton	1.2
Sevilla	1.2
Sunderland	1.1
Swansea	1
Leicester City	1
Zenit St Petersburg	0.98
Hull City	0.92
Malaga	0.89
Werder Bremen	0.89
Trabzonspor	0.87
Legia Warsaw	0.87
Borussia Monchengladbach	0.85
Athletic Bilbao	0.84
Anderlecht	0.8
Olympiacos	0.79
Crystal Palace	0.77
HSV Hamburg	0.75
Fulham	0.75
Red Star Belgrade	0.74
Spartak Moscow	0.74
Wolfsburg	0.73
St Etienne	0.7
QPR	0.67
Lille	0.67
FC Koln	0.67
Stoke City	0.66
Bordeaux	0.66
Norwich City	0.65
Villareal 0.65
Lech Poznan	0.64
Lazio	0.63
Real Betis	0.6
Bursaspor	0.56
PSV	0.54
St Pauli	0.53
Rangers	0.5
Dinamo Zagreb	0.49
Stuttgart	0.49
Feyenoord	0.48
Cardiff City	0.46
CSKA Moscow	0.46
Eintracht Frankfurt	0.46
PAOK	0.44
Partizan	0.41
Levski Sofia 0.4
Leeds United	0.4
Dinamo Bucharest	0.35
Stade Rennais	0.34
Red Bull Salzburg	0.34
Espanyol	0.33
Torino 0.33
Udinese	0.32
Panthinaikos	0.32
Celta Vigo	0.31
Hannover 96	0.31
Nurnberg	0.31
Reading	0.3

The top 5 teams have more combined likes than the other 91 (320 million against 302 million). This foreshadows the future of soccer, but I believe it's only stage one of the inevitable three stage process. 

This first stage is the rise of the elite, super clubs. As little as 15 years ago, Chelsea wasn't a major brand in the UK. It's now one of the most recognizable sports brands in the world.

The second stage, I believe, will be the formal regionalization of soccer leagues. This won't happen tomorrow, or even over the next decade in all likelihood. But it will, without a shadow of a doubt, happen eventually. Where and when it starts is less relevant. 

Every single industry produces winners. Those winners, in turn, will do everything in their power to stay at the top of the game. Part of this involves ensuring that no competitors are capable of rising to usurp their position at the top of the game. (I'm not going to go into a whole spiel on Financial Fair Play now, but rest assured that FFP was part of that process. FFP is largely anti-competition legislation.) 

In Europe, this won't result in a flat out Super League. At least not for a very long time. What it will start with is the expansion of the Champions League. Not in terms of the size of the league, but in terms of how often teams plays, and who they play against. 

As it stands, the domestic league set up is too lucrative for major clubs to leave. In fact there is very little incentive for Manchester United, for example, to support a full blown Super League that does away with the Premier League. Why? Because English teams can use the advantage of the Premier League revenues to stay ahead of European competition. Why on earth would they sacrifice that for a Super League that would level the playing field, leaving them without their financial advantage they hold now? They wouldn't, it makes no commercial sense. 

Of course, there is another view to consider. Who is to say that major teams from European leagues (Barca, Bayern, PSG, Juventus etc) aren't sitting there, looking at the growth of TV revenues in England, panicking? What if the fears of the rise of the Premier League give way to a rebellion among other European clubs?

Again, this argument wouldn't make more sense if the theories matched up with reality. 

You only need to look at that Facebook list to see why a Super League remains unlikely. 

Barcelona...Real Madrid...Bayern Munich...PSG...Juventus/AC Milan...and? And nothing. Without the support of the biggest teams in the four other major European leagues, there is NO Super League. Ever. With English clubs enjoying the status quo, it means the aforementioned six clubs will need to instigate any move towards a Super League. So the question becomes: what reason would these teams have to form a Super League?

Two reasons: trophies and revenues. If English clubs dominated European soccer, the calls might grow louder. Do English teams dominate European soccer?

Champions League winners since 2000:

Spain - 6
Italy - 3
England - 3
Germany - 2
Portugal - 1

Why? Revenues.

(in euros, 2013-14)
1	Real Madrid	549.5
2	Manchester United	518.0	
3	Bayern Munich	487.5 
4	Barcelona	484.6 
5	Paris Saint‑Germain	474.2	
6	Manchester City	414.4 
7	Chelsea	387.9 
8	Arsenal	359.3 
9	Liverpool	305.9 
10	Juventus	279.4 

Five English teams feature in the top 10 clubs by revenue. Four out of the top five aren't in England. 

What reason do the big Spanish, German, French and Italian clubs have to take on the Premier League with a Super League? Absolutely none. 

Until English teams move Barca, Real etc out of the top 10, these major European clubs have no reason to fear the Premier League. And that's never going to happen. Which makes any chance of a fullblown Super League in the immediate future very unlikely. 

I realize I've just spent time contradicting myself. I said that regional leagues are coming, then proceeded to explain that Europe won't be seeing them anytime soon. While I don't think an NFL style league is coming anytime soon, I do believe the lines will begin to blur in the Champions League between its current format and a 'traditional' league. 

This entire tangent was a way to raise the idea of regional/continental leagues. I think there is still a window of opportunity for the world to get a jump on Europe in this respect. A jump that could be crucial to the future success of professional soccer outside of Europe. 

Here's every team in the Americas with over a million Facebook likes:

Corinthians	10.7
Flamengo	10.2
Boca Juniors	7.7
Club America	7.4
Sao Paulo	6.3
River Plate	6.2
Chivas Guadalajara	4.9
Atletico Nacional	4
Palmeiras	3.6
Alianza Lima	3.3
Santos FC	3.2
Cruz Azul 3.2
Barcelona SC	2.7
Universitario de Deportes	2.7
Cruzeiro	2.6
Vasco da Gama	2.6
Atletico Mineiro	2.4
Gremio	2.3
Pumas UNAM	2.3
Colo Colo	2.2
Club Internacional	2.1
Club Leon	1.6
LA Galaxy 1.6
Tigres	1.5
Universidad de Chile	1.4
Millonarios	1.3
Tijuana Xolos	1.2
CF Monterrey	1.2
New York City FC	1.2
Botafogo	1.2
Fluminense	1.2
Club Santos (Mex)	1.1
Toluca	1.1
Esporte Bahia	1

The Americas has nothing on Europe's elite, but it's not bad. Even without North American teams, a revamped South American Copa Libertadores would be a very attractive proposition. All logistical problems aside, there's a lot to like about a roster like that. 

I believe the Americas and Asia need to get the ball rolling on continental leagues. It's not a popular opinion, but the idea of a unified Mexican-American-Canadian league makes too much sense. How it looks and works isn't something I have an answer for. 

For US soccer at least, it's the clearest way to bridge the (growing) divide between Caucasian and Hispanic cultural divergence. As it stands, we're cannibalizing soccer support...unnecessarily so.

Centralization is inevitable, but the only ones that seem to realize this are the ones that don't actually have a need for it yet - the Europeans.


----------



## KeepRightOn

Quick question regarding the proposed Orlando City Stadium. Will that still have the Terraced stand in the new design as I know there was originally a terrace behind one of the goals but the design changed. Thanks anyway.


----------



## krudmonk

Pellshekk said:


> There are probably many reasons for that, but in pure sporting terms, if you want to watch the best quality soccer in the world - by *technical standards* and entertainment value - you watch the European leagues. In particular, the *English Premier League*, and the UEFA Champions League. Unmissable skill, action and excitement in both those competitions for the purists.


No offense, but English clubs are somewhat weak in Europe right now. Bayern and Barcelona would mop up the top of the PL. It's this type of hearsay which just perpetuates the ignorant talking points of neophytes pretending to be experts. The Premier League is popular primarily because it is broadcast and covered in English, not because of _especially_ skillful play or even passionate atmospheres.

I'd go so far as to say that much American "support" for English clubs is Anglophilia, not so much love for the sport.


----------



## master_klon

KeepRightOn said:


> Quick question regarding the proposed Orlando City Stadium. Will that still have the Terraced stand in the new design as I know there was originally a terrace behind one of the goals but the design changed. Thanks anyway.



"The stadium design is still based primarily on the original plans, but the south end will now become a fully covered section, and all four corners will be filled in to allow for the extra capacity. There will still be a 10,000-square-foot, open-air supporters' terrace, though, with dedicated standing room only."

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2015/...ional-details-new-downtown-stadium-unveil-new


----------



## Welkin

5portsF4n said:


> Agreed. And there's no reason to belittle these people. Like any consumer market, people will always gravitate towards the best. It's why there will never be a serious professional (American) football league outside of the NFL. It's why the basketball world revolves around the NBA. Soccer is too fragmented (still) to have that one vacuum which sucks up all the interest.
> 
> But unless the rest of the world wises up to the fact that they need to be bolder in the face of European success, they'll hand the world to them on a platter (if we're not already past that point).
> 
> *And now for a tangent on Super Leagues...*
> 
> As with any consumer market, centralization in sport is inevitable. The best teams, and leagues, create a virtuous cycle of success that, once it really starts to snowball (as it did at in the late 90s/early 00s), becomes almost impossible to stop.
> 
> Here's a list of European soccer clubs with more than 300,000 Facebook likes:
> 
> (in millions)
> Barcelona	89
> Real Madrid	85.9
> Manchester United	67.3
> Chelsea	44.2
> Arsenal	34.2
> Bayern Munich	33.7
> Liverpool	26.8
> AC Milan	24.6
> Paris St Germain	22
> Juventus	20.6
> Manchester City	20
> Borussia Dortmund	13.6
> Galatasaray	12.6
> Atletico Madrid	11.8
> Fenerbache	9.7
> Tottenham Hotspur	7.1
> AS Roma	6.2
> Besiktas	5.6
> Inter Milan	5.6
> Olympique Marseille	4.4
> Napoli	3.6
> Porto	3.4
> Benfica	3.1
> Monaco	3
> Valencia	2.9
> Schalke 04	2.7
> Everton	2.3
> Olmypique Lyonnais 2.3
> Aston Villa	2.2
> Ajax Amsterdam	2
> Sporting CP Lisbon	2
> Fiorentina 1.9
> Bayer Leverkusen	1.8
> Steaua Bucharest	1.8
> Newcastle United	1.8
> FC Basel	1.6
> Shakhtar Donetsk	1.4
> Celtic	1.4
> West Ham United	1.3
> Southampton	1.2
> Sevilla	1.2
> Sunderland	1.1
> Swansea	1
> Leicester City	1
> Zenit St Petersburg	0.98
> Hull City	0.92
> Malaga	0.89
> Werder Bremen	0.89
> Trabzonspor	0.87
> Legia Warsaw	0.87
> Borussia Monchengladbach	0.85
> Athletic Bilbao	0.84
> Anderlecht	0.8
> Olympiacos	0.79
> Crystal Palace	0.77
> HSV Hamburg	0.75
> Fulham	0.75
> Red Star Belgrade	0.74
> Spartak Moscow	0.74
> Wolfsburg	0.73
> St Etienne	0.7
> QPR	0.67
> Lille	0.67
> FC Koln	0.67
> Stoke City	0.66
> Bordeaux	0.66
> Norwich City	0.65
> Villareal 0.65
> Lech Poznan	0.64
> Lazio	0.63
> Real Betis	0.6
> Bursaspor	0.56
> PSV	0.54
> St Pauli	0.53
> Rangers	0.5
> Dinamo Zagreb	0.49
> Stuttgart	0.49
> Feyenoord	0.48
> Cardiff City	0.46
> CSKA Moscow	0.46
> Eintracht Frankfurt	0.46
> PAOK	0.44
> Partizan	0.41
> Levski Sofia 0.4
> Leeds United	0.4
> Dinamo Bucharest	0.35
> Stade Rennais	0.34
> Red Bull Salzburg	0.34
> Espanyol	0.33
> Torino 0.33
> Udinese	0.32
> Panthinaikos	0.32
> Celta Vigo	0.31
> Hannover 96	0.31
> Nurnberg	0.31
> Reading	0.3
> 
> The top 5 teams have more combined likes than the other 91 (320 million against 302 million). This foreshadows the future of soccer, but I believe it's only stage one of the inevitable three stage process.
> 
> This first stage is the rise of the elite, super clubs. As little as 15 years ago, Chelsea wasn't a major brand in the UK. It's now one of the most recognizable sports brands in the world.
> 
> The second stage, I believe, will be the formal regionalization of soccer leagues. This won't happen tomorrow, or even over the next decade in all likelihood. But it will, without a shadow of a doubt, happen eventually. Where and when it starts is less relevant.
> 
> Every single industry produces winners. Those winners, in turn, will do everything in their power to stay at the top of the game. Part of this involves ensuring that no competitors are capable of rising to usurp their position at the top of the game. (I'm not going to go into a whole spiel on Financial Fair Play now, but rest assured that FFP was part of that process. FFP is largely anti-competition legislation.)
> 
> In Europe, this won't result in a flat out Super League. At least not for a very long time. What it will start with is the expansion of the Champions League. Not in terms of the size of the league, but in terms of how often teams plays, and who they play against.
> 
> As it stands, the domestic league set up is too lucrative for major clubs to leave. In fact there is very little incentive for Manchester United, for example, to support a full blown Super League that does away with the Premier League. Why? Because English teams can use the advantage of the Premier League revenues to stay ahead of European competition. Why on earth would they sacrifice that for a Super League that would level the playing field, leaving them without their financial advantage they hold now? They wouldn't, it makes no commercial sense.
> 
> Of course, there is another view to consider. Who is to say that major teams from European leagues (Barca, Bayern, PSG, Juventus etc) aren't sitting there, looking at the growth of TV revenues in England, panicking? What if the fears of the rise of the Premier League give way to a rebellion among other European clubs?
> 
> Again, this argument wouldn't make more sense if the theories matched up with reality.
> 
> You only need to look at that Facebook list to see why a Super League remains unlikely.
> 
> Barcelona...Real Madrid...Bayern Munich...PSG...Juventus/AC Milan...and? And nothing. Without the support of the biggest teams in the four other major European leagues, there is NO Super League. Ever. With English clubs enjoying the status quo, it means the aforementioned six clubs will need to instigate any move towards a Super League. So the question becomes: what reason would these teams have to form a Super League?
> 
> Two reasons: trophies and revenues. If English clubs dominated European soccer, the calls might grow louder. Do English teams dominate European soccer?
> 
> Champions League winners since 2000:
> 
> Spain - 6
> Italy - 3
> England - 3
> Germany - 2
> Portugal - 1
> 
> Why? Revenues.
> 
> (in euros, 2013-14)
> 1	Real Madrid	549.5
> 2	Manchester United	518.0
> 3	Bayern Munich	487.5
> 4	Barcelona	484.6
> 5	Paris Saint‑Germain	474.2
> 6	Manchester City	414.4
> 7	Chelsea	387.9
> 8	Arsenal	359.3
> 9	Liverpool	305.9
> 10	Juventus	279.4
> 
> Five English teams feature in the top 10 clubs by revenue. Four out of the top five aren't in England.
> 
> What reason do the big Spanish, German, French and Italian clubs have to take on the Premier League with a Super League? Absolutely none.
> 
> Until English teams move Barca, Real etc out of the top 10, these major European clubs have no reason to fear the Premier League. And that's never going to happen. Which makes any chance of a fullblown Super League in the immediate future very unlikely.
> 
> I realize I've just spent time contradicting myself. I said that regional leagues are coming, then proceeded to explain that Europe won't be seeing them anytime soon. While I don't think an NFL style league is coming anytime soon, I do believe the lines will begin to blur in the Champions League between its current format and a 'traditional' league.
> 
> This entire tangent was a way to raise the idea of regional/continental leagues. I think there is still a window of opportunity for the world to get a jump on Europe in this respect. A jump that could be crucial to the future success of professional soccer outside of Europe.
> 
> Here's every team in the Americas with over a million Facebook likes:
> 
> Corinthians	10.7
> Flamengo	10.2
> Boca Juniors	7.7
> Club America	7.4
> Sao Paulo	6.3
> River Plate	6.2
> Chivas Guadalajara	4.9
> Atletico Nacional	4
> Palmeiras	3.6
> Alianza Lima	3.3
> Santos FC	3.2
> Cruz Azul 3.2
> Barcelona SC	2.7
> Universitario de Deportes	2.7
> Cruzeiro	2.6
> Vasco da Gama	2.6
> Atletico Mineiro	2.4
> Gremio	2.3
> Pumas UNAM	2.3
> Colo Colo	2.2
> Club Internacional	2.1
> Club Leon	1.6
> LA Galaxy 1.6
> Tigres	1.5
> Universidad de Chile	1.4
> Millonarios	1.3
> Tijuana Xolos	1.2
> CF Monterrey	1.2
> New York City FC	1.2
> Botafogo	1.2
> Fluminense	1.2
> Club Santos (Mex)	1.1
> Toluca	1.1
> Esporte Bahia	1
> 
> The Americas has nothing on Europe's elite, but it's not bad. Even without North American teams, a revamped South American Copa Libertadores would be a very attractive proposition. All logistical problems aside, there's a lot to like about a roster like that.
> 
> I believe the Americas and Asia need to get the ball rolling on continental leagues. It's not a popular opinion, but the idea of a unified Mexican-American-Canadian league makes too much sense. How it looks and works isn't something I have an answer for.
> 
> For US soccer at least, it's the clearest way to bridge the (growing) divide between Caucasian and Hispanic cultural divergence. As it stands, we're cannibalizing soccer support...unnecessarily so.
> 
> Centralization is inevitable, but the only ones that seem to realize this are the ones that don't actually have a need for it yet - the Europeans.


Great post. It looks like you put a lot of thought into this. I'll give you another idea to think about. As long as the fans of Man U., Chelsea, Liverpool, etc., still show up in droves to watch their home teams beat up on the little dinks of the EPL (Swansea, Bournemouth, etc.) there is no reason to change the structure of the league to bring in some high power competition on a regular basis. If Man U. regularly only drew 20,000 for Swansea, but they could draw a sell out for Bayern, then they may look at a Super League for the increased revenue. But as long as they are bringing in the big money playing the little sisters of the poor, why change. I don't think an NFL type super league of the top cities and teams in Europe will ever materialize. No team that currently dominates their local domestic league and winning championships, will ever want to become the Cleveland Browns of the Super League.


----------



## carlosfng

^^ Unless they are Scottish or Dutch teams - which I think may be way too hopeful into the Super League utopia, because they would indeed become the Cleveland Browns of it, just like they are in the current CL system... with more prospective financial benefits, true...

Great post, but would like to add a bit to it about Latin America - not only logistics, but a lesser amount of money available and stronger nationalist/localist traditions essentially challenge centralization as that you propose in Europe. 

Specially as far as South America is concerned, you see most of the clubs from that list are Brazilian, due to Brazil nearly being a continent in itself in population terms, and teams really having only influence in their large regions. And you really wouldn't be able to bring in like 10-15 Brazilian countries in the league and just 3-4 Colombians, would you? Also, it is not like Real Madrid or Barcelona - in fact, only few countries suffer from the Scotland/Spain cases of duopolies, perhaps in Uruguay, three in Peru and Chile. But by the same token, barring Uruguay, most countries are big in population and/or land enough that a move for a Super League would cause a revolt from middling and lower teams; usually from provinces, who might not be in Libertadores too often but still will have enough power and votes in national leagues and federations to pretty much not be given a shot to the head - because let's face it, whatever rump national tournament remains, would be doomed within a couple decades. And, even big clubs in lesser nations probably are not like Celtic or Ajax, and realize that if a Super League thing happens, they would trade their local hegemony for being constant continental minnows.

Aside from sporting reasons proper, the financials and logistics cannot support a move towards a Super League system. Financially, Conmebol has pretty much become the feeder league of Europe, and its terrible leadership became content in the 90s to abide by Bosman and have its clubs earn short term riches from transfer fees while Europeans multiply that profit by several factors. The centuries old theme revived - sell commodity to the west, west adds value to it and earns much more profit, even selling it back to you (European football coverage is always on paid TV, and the amount of Europhiles rooting for one or other team in El Clasico and buying Messi or Ronaldo shirts for example is rising - alarmingly and embarrassingly so, IMHO). So in that sense, even with a Super League format, I doubt European financial domination can be challenged in the short term. Even the results on the pitch say it, 1 win for Conmebol in 7 years of Club World Championships... the champion of the Libertadores barely being paid 10 million USD in prize money, 3 being from winning the final, and tickets and hospitality not being as expensive and developed as in Europe yet... (though some tell me, if Conmebol executives were a bit more honest, prize money would rise tenfold)...

And as for logistics, perhaps only what you mention about a unified North American league is possible (if not as much for the reasons above). It is hard already in the current Libertadores/Sudamericana format to include Concacaf clubs, or to do Concacaf/Conmebol joint qualifiers.

I do hope, rather than centralization, streamlining happens. In Conmebol, get rid of the "cup per semester" strategy that pretty much makes it impossible for doubles or trebles to happen, and tire players tremendously with travel in a larger continent. Make Libertadores and Sudamericana yearlong, albeit never follow the EL example and keep both much less unequal in regards to prize money (and don't shelve it in a Thursday). This would also push forward the return to a single national championship per year schedule; as one of the motivations for them was so as to give clubs a chance at competing abroad one semester and locally another. And though this would not be as financially rewarding in the short term (less playoffs, less big matches on TV), and clubs may have to remain more constant during a whole year to achieve goals, in the medium to long term the league will gain in appreciation, winning the championship will have higher value, attendances will rise, and broadcasting revenue and profit will too (one can still have playoffs/finals to keep it interesting through the end as well), as well as clubs probably competing better at the continental stage.

---

I would also like to point out, reducing the American interest in the EPL to mere Anglophilia is as short sighted as saying everyone who watches NBA outside the US is a mere Ameriphile. Granted, if the EPL was moved to Argentina you'd lose 2/3ds of the audience - but that is more due to the preference of Americans for things to be in their native language, as well as in a culture closer to theirs. Also, you mention Barcelona or Bayern mopping up half of the EPL - funny, because they mop up the entirety of their own leagues... that is what keeps the EPL attractive, even while they are too sleepy in Europe this past decade; in that it is the most internally competitive of the big leagues. I would say though, if they keep sucking abroad for the rest of the decade, they might pull an Italy...

Anyway, LONG off-topic. But, glad to hear Orlando City's new stadium will still feature a safe standing local supporter end. Are there any initiatives for that in other SSS around the US? I do think in some of them it is easier, given the "bleachers" design some stands have.


----------



## RobH

> I would say though, if they keep sucking abroad for the rest of the decade, they might pull an Italy...


Unlikely the PL will "pull an Italy". Italy has had structural problems with clubs not owning their own stadiums (and therefore revenue streams), no collective bargaining for TV rights until very recently, problems with corruption and fan violence (though they're getting on top of both). It's more likely Italy could "pull an England" in terms of getting their league back to health after troubled-times if more clubs start following Juve's excellent example.

We can argue all day about which league has the best teams, the highest skill levels, but the PL will always be healthy and a part of that argument, and won't slump to where Serie A was a few years ago.

Anyway, a bit off topic.


----------



## Pellshekk

krudmonk said:


> No offense, but English clubs are somewhat weak in Europe right now. Bayern and Barcelona would mop up the top of the PL. It's this type of hearsay which just perpetuates the ignorant talking points of neophytes pretending to be experts.* The Premier League is popular primarily because it is broadcast and covered in English, not because of especially skillful play or even passionate atmospheres.*
> 
> I'd go so far as to say that much American "support" for English clubs is Anglophilia, not so much love for the sport.



No, the reason the Premier League is so popular is because of _entertainment. 

_ That entertainment derives from hyper-competitive games, intensity from first whistle to last, the attacking mindset of English football, referees that try to let games flow, relatively low levels of diving, time-wasting and cynicism; and decades/centuries old historical rivalries between clubs. And yes, technical quality too. It's that whole mix together that football fans around the world love about the EPL. 

People constantly confuse technical quality with entertainment value. Technical stuff is important for fans of course, but the crucial point is that as long as the sporting competition is at an elite level - and the EPL is elite in world footballing terms - fans don't really care if it's technically inferior by a few degrees as long as its not inferior by an order of magnitude, and especially not when you consider the whole mix I describe above.

I don't understand your point about Barca and Bayern. Of course they'd beat up most of the PL, but they beat up most of La Liga and Bundesliga too! Judging Everton and West Ham against the two best teams in the world and drawing a conclusion about the league off the back of that is kinda perverse. 

Which gets us onto the idea that what football fans want to see is Leo Messi dancing through defences over and over and over again. Meh. It's not. They want to see competition. Fight, heart, tradition, sporting integrity. La Liga has too many uncompetitive games, teams look beaten before they run out against Barca or Real, the refereeing is horrid, the diving and faking are unbearable, coaching is more defence-minded, no away fans travel etc. etc. It's just not as much _fun _as the EPL_. _Not as_ entertaining. _Really, that's what it's about.


----------



## krudmonk

pistola916 said:


> What I don't understand is why Liga MX and other Latin American futbol leagues have two seasons a year? The Apertura and Clausura. It's so weird and stupid to have two champions per calendar year.


It's neither weird nor stupid. Apertura/Clausura has taken hold across other Latin American nations. Each tournament comes out to about the length of an NFL season...and fans get two per year. I would love that format.


carlosfng said:


> I would also like to point out, reducing the American interest in the EPL to mere Anglophilia is as short sighted as saying everyone who watches NBA outside the US is a mere Ameriphile. Granted, if the EPL was moved to Argentina you'd lose 2/3ds of the audience - but that is more due to the preference of Americans for things to be in their native language, as well as in a culture closer to theirs. Also, you mention Barcelona or Bayern mopping up half of the EPL - funny, because they mop up the entirety of their own leagues... that is what keeps the EPL attractive, even while they are too sleepy in Europe this past decade; in that it is the most internally competitive of the big leagues. I would say though, if they keep sucking abroad for the rest of the decade, they might pull an Italy...


Agree to disagree on how much Anglophilia (which you hint as a preference for certain culture) influences PL popularity. Bayern and Barça do usually dominate their own leagues, but my point was that they set the standards for quality which Chelsea and the Manchesters are struggling to keep up with this year. Just look atall the manager turnover in England, and it's not because plucky Leicester is overachieving.


Pellshekk said:


> No, the reason the Premier League is so popular is because of _entertainment.
> 
> _ That entertainment derives from hyper-competitive games, intensity from first whistle to last, the attacking mindset of English football, referees that try to let games flow, relatively low levels of diving, time-wasting and cynicism; and decades/centuries old historical rivalries between clubs. And yes, technical quality too. It's that whole mix together that football fans around the world love about the EPL.
> 
> People constantly confuse technical quality with entertainment value. Technical stuff is important for fans of course, but the crucial point is that as long as the sporting competition is at an elite level - and the EPL is elite in world footballing terms - fans don't really care if it's technically inferior by a few degrees as long as its not inferior by an order of magnitude, and especially not when you consider the whole mix I describe above.
> 
> I don't understand your point about Barca and Bayern. Of course they'd beat up most of the PL, but they beat up most of La Liga and Bundesliga too! Judging Everton and West Ham against the two best teams in the world and drawing a conclusion about the league off the back of that is kinda perverse.
> 
> Which gets us onto the idea that what football fans want to see is Leo Messi dancing through defences over and over and over again. Meh. It's not. They want to see competition. Fight, heart, tradition, sporting integrity. La Liga has too many uncompetitive games, teams look beaten before they run out against Barca or Real, the refereeing is horrid, the diving and faking are unbearable, coaching is more defence-minded, no away fans travel etc. etc. It's just not as much _fun _as the EPL_. _Not as_ entertaining. _Really, that's what it's about.


I'm not advocating against the entertainment of PL matches. I'll watch the shit out of them. My point was that the PL is not the standard-bearer of quality like, say, the NBA or NHL. That status is constantly fluctuating, really, with CL tournaments and coefficients constantly shuffling things. Regardless, many people will flock to English footballing culture because it is English.

Also, Bayern may be pulling away from Dortmund again, but Barcelona does not even lead in Spain right now.


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## goldy21

Is this still a stadium thread?


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## KeepRightOn

goldy21 said:


> Is this still a stadium thread?


Not sure, although I am sure I remember seeing this exact exchange on BigSoccer about 8 years ago.


----------



## Kerrybai

Pellshekk said:


> Which gets us onto the idea that what football fans want to see is Leo Messi dancing through defences over and over and over again. Meh. It's not. They want to see competition. Fight, heart, tradition, sporting integrity. La Liga has too many uncompetitive games, teams look beaten before they run out against Barca or Real, the refereeing is horrid, the diving and faking are unbearable, coaching is more defence-minded, no away fans travel etc. etc. It's just not as much _fun _as the EPL_. _Not as_ entertaining. _Really, that's what it's about.


1 - Yes fans do want to see Messi dancing through defences, its the reason his goal vs Bilbao was voted by fans into the top 3 goals in the world.

2 - There is plenty of rivalries in Spain along with tradition, fight and heart. Check out the Madrid Valencia 2-2 for a game where teams fought to the death.

3 - How is coaching more defence minded? Both leagues average 2.4 goals per game, there is no difference in this regard.

4 - Finally La liga is arguably more entertaining, the level of football is higher which is why Spain dominates Europe and so many Spanish players are bought by English clubs. Entertainment is colpletely subjective, some prefer England, Some prefer Spain. Personally I find England far less entertaining , some of the so called big games have been absolutely awful, cough cough Manchester United.


----------



## Kerrybai

Pellshekk said:


> Which gets us onto the idea that what football fans want to see is Leo Messi dancing through defences over and over and over again. Meh. It's not. They want to see competition. Fight, heart, tradition, sporting integrity. La Liga has too many uncompetitive games, teams look beaten before they run out against Barca or Real, the refereeing is horrid, the diving and faking are unbearable, coaching is more defence-minded, no away fans travel etc. etc. It's just not as much _fun _as the EPL_. _Not as_ entertaining. _Really, that's what it's about.


1 - Yes fans do want to see Messi dancing through defences, its the reason his goal vs Bilbao was voted by fans into the top 3 goals in the world.

2 - There is plenty of rivalries in Spain along with tradition, fight and heart. Check out the Madrid Valencia 2-2 for a game where teams fought to the death.

3 - How is coaching more defence minded? Both leagues average 2.4 goals per game, there is no difference in this regard.

4 - Finally La liga is arguably more entertaining, the level of football is higher which is why Spain dominates Europe and so many Spanish players are bought by English clubs. Entertainment is colpletely subjective, some prefer England, Some prefer Spain. Personally I find England far less entertaining , some of the so called big games have been absolutely awful, cough cough Manchester United.

Thread has officially been derailed.


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## GunnerJacket

goldy21 said:


> Is this still a stadium thread?


Yeah, but it is rather slow. If it starts to get personal...


----------



## carlosfng

Kerrybai said:


> 1 - Yes fans do want to see Messi dancing through defences, its the reason his goal vs Bilbao was voted by fans into the top 3 goals in the world.
> 
> 2 - There is plenty of rivalries in Spain along with tradition, fight and heart. Check out the Madrid Valencia 2-2 for a game where teams fought to the death.
> 
> 3 - How is coaching more defence minded? Both leagues average 2.4 goals per game, there is no difference in this regard.
> 
> 4 - Finally La liga is arguably more entertaining, the level of football is higher which is why Spain dominates Europe and so many Spanish players are bought by English clubs. Entertainment is colpletely subjective, some prefer England, Some prefer Spain. Personally I find England far less entertaining , some of the so called big games have been absolutely awful, cough cough Manchester United.
> 
> Thread has officially been derailed.


To continue derailing the thread...
Just wanna say I stand in the middle ground. I only slightly prefer the EPL due to it being the most competitive of the top three leagues in Europe. But I also think the top three clubs in the world are Barca, Bayern, and Real Madrid. And that La Liga does have to its favor that it is not all about running all the time (the English love for "pace" can grow tiring at times), and that its referees do not casually allow for blatant kicks not be fouls... even though they do favor the old duopoly (that it is only barely being challenged these past couple years; but still, you'll never see said duopoly outside CL spots ever). Funny thing, if Bundesliga had more than one omnipotent team and another really good one, I'd love to watch it, they kind of are balanced in its game (another reason Italian football's popularity floundered, the game had become too defensive, too much worship of catenaccio in some teams).

Anyway, no one will agree on anything, so about them soccer stadiums in America... which of them have standing room or plan to have them? Aside from San Jose and Orlando, which I read about before the O/T.


----------



## Guest

GunnerJacket said:


> Way too harsh, IMO. the Galaxy have done exactly what they've needed to become relevant on the 2nd largest stage in US soccer. Not just relevant, but also the most successful brand in modern US soccer. Even through MLS' lean years. Chide some of the personalities involved all we want but we can't discount what they've done for the team and for MLS.
> 
> And I say this as a guy that typically views LA as a place just to provide the sports world with villains.


I didn't really discount anything they've done. I like the Galaxy, I think they're good for the league. It was just a bit of harmless fun.


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## carlosfng

I see what you mean, in the 90s the cliché black and white soccer ball did look tacky and cartoony. But in regards to LAFC's leather ball, it could be an old-timey leather ball, to tie in with the art deco design. As that present in the crest of FC Barcelona, for example.

I guess my main point was that the crest looked a bit empty, just the acronym and the name inside the crest border. That being said, it is much more instantly recognizable due to that lack of detail. And I did like the font and colors a lot. I do hope more merchandise uses "LAFC" or "LA Football Club" instead of just the acronym - though if the brand becomes recognized, they just might not need someone else to tell them, that's the logo of LAFC... so who knows, maybe I am complaining over nothing heh.

Another thing I can see coming, is the Galaxy emphasizing its name more, so as to get distinguished from LAFC. And thus maybe Galaxy becoming the favorite club for those outside the city (specially if they remain successful).


----------



## master_klon

Was expecting something quite different for the LAFC badge, but it does look great nonetheless. Here's what it looks like beside the rest of MLS, including Atlanta:


----------



## The Game Is Up

San Antonio takes next step in MLS pursuit, scores 31st USL franchise

http://www.bizjournals.com/sananton...o-takes-next-step-in-mls-pursuit-scoring.html

New St. Paul soccer stadium inspiring redevelopment in Midway community

http://www.startribune.com/new-soccer-stadium-inspiring-redevelopment-in-midway-community/364598111/

Louisville commits $75K for feasibility study of soccer stadium

http://www.wdrb.com/story/30902390/louisville-commits-75k-for-feasibility-study-of-soccer-stadium


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## 3tmk

It looks like a nice logo for a casual designer clothing (which I suppose is what jerseys have become), but I just don't see it as a football crest. But most of the new clubs end up changing their logo within the first decade anyway.

The render of that possible Miami stadium looks pretty neat within that urban setting.


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## MarkJF

krudmonk said:


> Is Rubbish a step below or above Poppycock?
> 
> All you've said here is that English clubs make and spend more money, which is directly related to the PL and English culture being more accessible globally. That's why we German clubs now trying to keep up with Mexican and US signings and social media pushes in other languages.


Nope you said:- 

_"But English clubs are somewhat weak in Europe right now."_ I gave you the reason, it is sound and solid and isn't there in La Liga.

_"Bayern and Barcelona would mop up the top of the PL"_ Nonsense, see above.

Bayern, Barca & RM operate financially at an entirely different level to their domestic competitors hence the lack of serious competition, hence the lack of global attraction outside of the classico games. .


----------



## MarkJF

SounderBruce said:


> MLS is moving away from having the ball in their crests. We don't really want them back either, since they remind us too much of the disaster that was the 90s in design.


I like them, I can't get muddled up with other teams/sports with a quick glance.

My faves would be 

1. LA
2. Quakes
3. Portland

The most dismal being NYC.



master_klon said:


> Was expecting something quite different for the LAFC badge, but it does look great nonetheless. Here's what it looks like beside the rest of MLS, including Atlanta:


----------



## Chevy114

People laughed when I said Lousiville should get a team, looks like they have a chance like most of you are now saying:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/...-specific-stadium-eye-toward-possible-mls-bid


----------



## Chevy114

I went back and read all the old posts I missed, I must say I really like the way LA FC did it! I know Miami and NYC are known for their art deco, but La has plenty of art deco as well. Can't wait to see the kits!


----------



## GunnerJacket

master_klon said:


> Was expecting something quite different for the LAFC badge, but it does look great nonetheless. Here's what it looks like beside the rest of MLS, including Atlanta:


As a whole that's a pretty sharp collection of badges. (Wanna say icons but since the tech field has co-opted that terminology...) It's a far sight better than the original MLS pool and most of them should serve their teams well in building brand appeal. Timbers crest remains too simple for my taste, and I wish the Vancouver and Colorado crests could better incorporate their water themes. Revolutions logo stands out as rather staid, but that is clever and unique iconography they've created.

Two NY teams stand as the weakest, IMO. One for being too easily identified as something different (the drink), the other for not sticking out too clearly as for a soccer club. Seems too simply a mash-up of Yankees and Mets symbols to me. 



The Game Is Up said:


> New St. Paul soccer stadium inspiring redevelopment in Midway community
> 
> http://www.startribune.com/new-soccer-stadium-inspiring-redevelopment-in-midway-community/364598111/


Very anxious to see the preliminary concepts for the site, for exactly this reason. The Twin Cities have done very well of late with their urban planning and I hope this contributes to the trend. Even if the actual stadium design comes up short they could do a lot to make the area another great cultural node.


----------



## KeepRightOn

master_klon said:


> Was expecting something quite different for the LAFC badge, but it does look great nonetheless. Here's what it looks like beside the rest of MLS, including Atlanta:


I must admit that is a fantastic array of Badges with different colours on show. I love the New Los Angeles badge along with New York and also Phillie and Vancouver standing out too.


----------



## krudmonk

MarkJF said:


> Nope you said:-
> 
> _"But English clubs are somewhat weak in Europe right now."_ I gave you the reason, it is sound and solid and isn't there in La Liga.
> 
> _"Bayern and Barcelona would mop up the top of the PL"_ Nonsense, see above.
> 
> Bayern, Barca & RM operate financially at an entirely different level to their domestic competitors hence the lack of serious competition, hence the lack of global attraction outside of the classico games. .


Man, I'm not championing those two or anything, just stating the obvious. Yes, they ARE obscenely rich and DO spoil the spirit of competition. I'd love for our domestic league to be at the level of "the rest."


----------



## cbk1128

Really do love that LAFC logo. Thought this was pretty ironic though, considering the continual bashing of NYCFC's logo:

http://www.matthewwolffdesign.com/portfolio/nycfc/

Same guy designed it.


----------



## master_klon

After revealing crest and colors, LAFC hard at work on stadium and academy

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/...and-colors-lafc-hard-work-stadium-and-academy


----------



## carnifex2005

*The Portland Timbers believe adding an upper deck to the east stands of Providence Park is feasible, could bring capacity to 30,000+*


----------



## krudmonk

SounderBruce said:


> MLS is moving away from having the ball in their crests. We don't really want them back either, since they remind us too much of the disaster that was the 90s in design.


This is such a bullshit non-issue. Terrible design of the '90s has nothing to do with a sports logo indicating which sport is played. It occurs all over the world in many sports LONG BEFORE 1990. Yankees and Knicks, Dodgers and Lakers, Premier League, La Liga, etc. Barcelona has a football in their crest even when they play other sports! Somehow this backlash got caught in the Cascadian echo chamber of "the realest soccer fans in America" and now people think it's a matter of concern.

And that "cliché black and white" ball is the Adidas Telstar, which dates back to '60s Europe.


----------



## KeepRightOn

One of the best badges in the world is a ball and globe


----------



## Guest

carnifex2005 said:


> *The Portland Timbers believe adding an upper deck to the east stands of Providence Park is feasible, could bring capacity to 30,000+*


Would be great. The ideal capacity for them is 27-30,000.


----------



## GunnerJacket

carnifex2005 said:


> *The Portland Timbers believe adding an upper deck to the east stands of Providence Park is feasible, could bring capacity to 30,000+*


Great news. I've been saying this since the get go that the East Side should host a tower of premium seating but this makes more sense for easing the congestion around the concession areas elsewhere around the stadium. Whatever gets them to/over 30k will be great, for them and for MLS.

Picard: "Make it so."


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

Good news.


Really love the LAFC logo, I'd say it's best in the MLS. It's going to be interesting to watch their development.


----------



## bd popeye

GunnerJacket said:


> Two NY teams stand as the weakest, IMO. One for being too easily identified as something different (the drink), the other for not sticking out too clearly as for a soccer club. Seems too simply a mash-up of Yankees and Mets symbols to me.


No no no...the NYFC badge is patterned after old NYC subway tokens;












....With a little bit of Mets and Yankees tossed in.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Chevy114 said:


> People laughed when I said Lousiville should get a team, looks like they have a chance like most of you are now saying:
> 
> http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/...-specific-stadium-eye-toward-possible-mls-bid


This is in the Dumb and Dumber vein of "So you're saying there's a chance?!..."


----------



## BoulderGrad

GunnerJacket said:


> Great news. I've been saying this since the get go that the East Side should host a tower of premium seating but this makes more sense for easing the congestion around the concession areas elsewhere around the stadium. Whatever gets them to/over 30k will be great, for them and for MLS.
> 
> Picard: "Make it so."


Would be awesome too to remove the corner suite stack as well.


----------



## nyrmetros

Stadiums stadiums stadiums.... What's the latest news and rumors on soccer stadiums in North America?


----------



## The Game Is Up

Louisville FC commissions new stadium study to strengthen MLS bid 

http://www.leisureopportunities.co....detail&subject=news&codeID=320591&sitecode=FB


----------



## slipperydog

Landon Donovan pursuing USL team in San Diego.

http://www.empireofsoccer.com/report-landon-donovan-43671/


----------



## Ranma Saotome

July 13, 2015

2015 CONCACAF Gold Cup, Panama - USA (1 - 1) at Children's Mercy Park. Click to enlarge:



http://clikhear.palmbeachpost.com/2015/potw/week-29/


----------



## Chevy114

Now that MLS stadiums are going in a new direction, do you see any of the already built soccer specific stadiums ever getting replaced?


----------



## GunnerJacket

Chevy114 said:


> Now that MLS stadiums are going in a new direction, do you see any of the already built soccer specific stadiums ever getting replaced?


Eventually, sure, but that's many years down the road. MLS teams aren't yet profitable enough to warrant that level of cost. C-bus might be the exception since they've explored the option, but then again their venue was built on the cheap and they're also trying to do some renovations to see if it can reach MLS 3.0 levels.

Otherwise I can see Chicago and possibly Colorado someday calling a do over, mostly for location purposes. But again we're talking a generation from now. Folks from LA talk about the Galaxy someday getting a new venue off the college campus and giving them more freedom re: capacities and advertising. But it's not necessary at the moment and I've yet to hear anything other than internet banter on the idea.

Dallas is likely stuck now that the soccer HOF is moving in. RSL is happy with Rio Tinto and can expand that venue.


----------



## Chevy114

Yeah I could see C-bus wanting a new one since it's the oldest and has little to no cover. I could also see teams with those Teflon weird shaped roofs wanting better roofs so like LA, Col, Phil, RSL, etc. trying to do something like Orlando or Toronto and if they can something more like KC or Red Bulls. I'm sure all of the teams we named could do addition edition like Toronto is doing without having to get a whole new stadium, I just wonder about club and box seats.


----------



## Guest

When has profitability ever correlated with the building of new arenas/stadiums? Whether a team is profitable or not, local clout is what really matters. Basically they just need to become extremely important in their local markets, and the rest will follow.


----------



## Pellshekk

^^ Fantastic shot from Kansas a few posts above. Love it.


----------



## Guil

Which MLS Stadiums are expandable?


----------



## Hansadyret

Guil said:


> Which MLS Stadiums are expandable?


I would think most of them.


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> When has profitability ever correlated with the building of new arenas/stadiums? Whether a team is profitable or not, local clout is what really matters. Basically they just need to become extremely important in their local markets, and the rest will follow.


Profitability is the gauge of whether the investment into any renovations/relocations are worth the expense. You don't add on to the stadium just to increase losses. To that end, few MLS franchises are at the point where they have a need or where such stadium amendments would bear fruit. I feel, anyway.


----------



## Chevy114

I think MLS prides itself on being one of the most loyal of the major sports groups and doesn't want to make waves yet. I think some of these stadiums named are great they just need extra boxes or different roofs. Just depends if they have the room for them. I don't think they need to add anymore seats, most teams are only around 80 to 90% full on average.


----------



## RMB2007

> With the first kick of 2016 less than two months away, Orlando's Major League Soccer team said Wednesday that its $155 million new home won't be ready until the 2017 season, four months later than had been planned.
> 
> Orlando City Soccer Club president Phil Rawlins said construction of the team's highly anticipated stadium is taking longer than expected, so the venue's debut has been delayed and the team will play all of the upcoming season at the Citrus Bowl.


www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-orlando-city-soccer-stadium-delay-20160113-story.html


----------



## slipperydog

Minnesota United FC aiming to start play in 2017, looking at Target Field and TCF Bank Stadium as possible temporary venues

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/...-eyeing-temporary-homes-goal-joining-mls-2017


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> Minnesota United FC aiming to start play in 2017, looking at Target Field and TCF Bank Stadium as possible temporary venues
> 
> http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/...-eyeing-temporary-homes-goal-joining-mls-2017


I guess the precedent has been set regarding the use of TCF for non-university sports, and certainly the heated field would help with late season contests. Issue becomes one of scheduling and field wear, which, arguably would be easier/better than compared to Target Field. 

I like the idea of the league trying to keep the number of teams even. Plus we could get over the introduction of 2 new Uniteds in the same year. Yay.


----------



## slipperydog

GunnerJacket said:


> I guess the precedent has been set regarding the use of TCF for non-university sports, and certainly the heated field would help with late season contests. Issue becomes one of scheduling and field wear, which, arguably would be easier/better than compared to Target Field.
> 
> I like the idea of the league trying to keep the number of teams even. Plus we could get over the introduction of 2 new Uniteds in the same year. Yay.


TCF makes way more sense than Target Field IMO, especially given that TCF is unused for the vast majority of the MLS season.

I'm skeptical the league will be able to avoid an odd number of teams when LAFC comes on board. How long does the league really want Becks FC playing in Sun Life Stadium?


----------



## mvcg66b3r

TCF looks a little narrow for an MLS pitch. What are the dimensions? And are any other MLS teams playing on non-standard pitches?


----------



## Lumbergo

mvcg66b3r said:


> TCF looks a little narrow for an MLS pitch. What are the dimensions? And are any other MLS teams playing on non-standard pitches?


Seemed to work okay when they held a friendly there last year


----------



## BoulderGrad

mvcg66b3r said:


> TCF looks a little narrow for an MLS pitch. What are the dimensions? And are any other MLS teams playing on non-standard pitches?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Soccer_stadiums

Smallest is NYCFC at 110 Yards by 70 Yards.


----------



## The Game Is Up

MLS expansion plans could bring a team to Detroit

http://detroitsportsnation.com/gene...on-plans-could-bring-a-team-to-detroit/58772/


If Cashman Field becomes a soccer field, MLS is interested

http://lasvegassun.com/news/2016/jan/17/if-cashman-field-gets-tranformed-into-soccer-stadi/


Exclusive: USL boss weighs in on San Antonio’s ultimate goal of MLS

http://www.bizjournals.com/sananton...sive-usl-boss-weighs-in-on-san-antonio-s.html


Garber: Minnesota could join MLS in '17; Sacramento, St. Louis promising

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/201...minnesota-st-louis-sacramento-miami-san-diego


Press Box: St. Louis should replace Rams with MLS franchise

http://www.newstribune.com/news/2016/jan/17/press-box-st-louis-should-replace-rams-mls-franchi/


Second pro soccer team for Chicago?

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20160111/sports/160119783/


----------



## Guest

Two teams in Chicago would be completely unnecessary. Just need one that isnt in Bridgeview. 

The st louis thing makes no sense. They keep hanging around the top of the list without having anything going for them. Why?


----------



## krudmonk

5portsF4n said:


> Two teams in Chicago would be completely unnecessary. Just need one that isnt in Bridgeview.


Are you unfamiliar with NASL being separate from MLS? They are looking to seize Chicago _because_ the local MLS team is in Bridgeview.


----------



## Guest

I only read headings


----------



## krudmonk

5portsF4n said:


> I only read headings


Heh, honestly, I didn't click the link either. I just follow American soccer news elsewhere and assumed that's what it was about.


----------



## slipperydog

5portsF4n said:


> Two teams in Chicago would be completely unnecessary. Just need one that isnt in Bridgeview.
> 
> The st louis thing makes no sense. They keep hanging around the top of the list without having anything going for them. Why?


St. Louis was the hot story of the week because they lost their NFL team. It still comes down to putting an ownership group together, gathering financing, and having a firm plan for a soccer specific facility.


----------



## RMB2007

*D.C. United*

New renders:



















www.dcunited.com/club/futureunited


----------



## KeepRightOn

Looks pretty good. I mean, It's clearly a cheap option but at least it is a bit different in terms on design and has what looks like a single tier 'Kop' behind one of the goals. Whats the capacity? 18,000?


----------



## bd popeye

KeepRightOn said:


> Looks pretty good. I mean, It's clearly a cheap option but at least it is a bit different in terms on design and has what looks like a single tier 'Kop' behind one of the goals. Whats the capacity? 18,000?


Your answer;

DC United Buzzard Point Stadium



> How many seats will be in the new stadium?
> The new stadium will hold approximately 20,000 spectators.


----------



## KeepRightOn

Cheers


----------



## aaronniuk

RMB2007 said:


> *D.C. United*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dcunited.com/club/futureunited


I don't understand the corner piece on the stand behind the goal...why not just extend the stand the length of the byline and get more people in the stadium?


----------



## willygtoc

Looks super cheap. The first renders were a lot better.


----------



## RMB2007

It's dreadful. Wish this design was the one they were turning into reality:


----------



## Guest

Might be the cheap option, but it still looks pretty good. Not as spectacular as the original concepts, but if they could get this thing once and for all, DCU would be another diamond for MLS.


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

Why this crippled stand behind the goal? Why, God, why?


----------



## RMB2007

dinamo_zagreb said:


> Why this crippled stand behind the goal? Why, God, why?


Architect obvious lost the will to live at that stage. The design just seems like such a missed opportunity.


----------



## krudmonk

It will look a lot better in person. Avaya had a similar effect in renderings, in which the minimal look came off as thin and cheap.


----------



## GunnerJacket

RMB2007 said:


> *D.C. United*
> 
> New renders:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dcunited.com/club/futureunited


:uh::sly: That abortion in the NW corner is dreadful. Possibly the single worst element of a new stadium I've seen in some time. (GT, 2003?) I can accept they're need to do it on the cheap, and I understand total site restraints lower the capacity for the facility beyond just space for seating, but to put the shop/box seating/overlord suite in that funky location is just painful. It's not just bad fung shui, it's an architectural castration gone awry.

DC deserves better. :no:


----------



## carnifex2005

Orlando City released their Virtual Stadium Tour today and more info on the stadium...

Orlando City's downtown stadium will be a 100% privately funded project. The site is two blocks from the Amway Center, within walking distance of the downtown bar district, one of the best locations of any soccer stadium in the country! The stadium has been designed with the intention of creating the loudest and most intimidating atmosphere in Major League Soccer, with North America's only safe-standing supporter section and a low slanted roofline to amplify crowd noise.

Stadium Details

25,500 capacity
360 lower bowl
Canopy to enhance crowd noise and provide shelter from sun / rain
Field sunken 8' below ground level to offer spectacular views from street level
All natural grass playing surface
Single deck safe-standing supporter section
Expansive fan plaza spanning 10,000 square feet

http://orlandocitysc.io-media.com/web/index.html#


----------



## Chevy114

I feel like DC has an advantage where they can build anywhere and that can be the new hot spot unlike most cities where good and bad neighborhoods are already set in stone and it would take 30 years to change that. Am I right for thinking that?


----------



## gazzaa2

When are DC looking at breaking ground on that?

No word on a new stadium for the Revs?


----------



## RMB2007

carnifex2005 said:


> Orlando City released their Virtual Stadium Tour today and more info on the stadium...
> 
> Orlando City's downtown stadium will be a 100% privately funded project. The site is two blocks from the Amway Center, within walking distance of the downtown bar district, one of the best locations of any soccer stadium in the country! The stadium has been designed with the intention of creating the loudest and most intimidating atmosphere in Major League Soccer, with North America's only safe-standing supporter section and a low slanted roofline to amplify crowd noise.
> 
> Stadium Details
> 
> 25,500 capacity
> 360 lower bowl
> Canopy to enhance crowd noise and provide shelter from sun / rain
> Field sunken 8' below ground level to offer spectacular views from street level
> All natural grass playing surface
> Single deck safe-standing supporter section
> Expansive fan plaza spanning 10,000 square feet
> 
> http://orlandocitysc.io-media.com/web/index.html#





















The safe standing section:


----------



## KeepRightOn

Great to see the Standing End, a huge step forward and will help in some way re introduce standing areas back into top level English Football.


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

RMB2007 said:


> Architect obvious lost the will to live at that stage. The design just seems like such a missed opportunity.


Exactly, I expecteed way better solution for one of league's founding clubs. Shame they did this.


----------



## Chevy114

2 things I like the standing section, wonder how Americans will embrace it and Will they really only have 1 scoreboard?


----------



## slipperydog

I wonder if the standing section at Orlando will prevent them from hosting FIFA matches. I believe they have a rule against standing sections.


----------



## RMB2007

slipperydog said:


> I wonder if the standing section at Orlando will prevent them from hosting FIFA matches. I believe they have a rule against standing sections.


All depends on the safe standing system they install. Something like the rail seats would give them the option to easily switch from standing to seated mode, so allowing the stadium to be an all-seater stadium for any FIFA matches.

www.fercoseating.co.uk/rail-seat/RailSeat.html


----------



## Guest

Wouldnt be a problem as any international match would be at The CB anyway, not here.


----------



## slipperydog

5portsF4n said:


> Wouldnt be a problem as any international match would be at The CB anyway, not here.


Think so? They are hosting USMNT matches at StubHub in January, where the Coliseum and Rose Bowl are plenty bigger. Same reason Columbus Crew Stadium hosts qualifiers and the Buckeyes stadium doesn't.


----------



## willygtoc

I like the Orlando stadium a lot but why the roofless corners? is a short space and i can think a reason to leave them without roof.


----------



## slipperydog

USL conference alignment for 2016 announced...


----------



## carnifex2005

willygtoc said:


> I like the Orlando stadium a lot but why the roofless corners? is a short space and i can think a reason to leave them without roof.


I'm assuming to let some wind into the stadium. Orlando doesn't have to worry about cold, so the roof is mostly for sun but it would be disgustingly hot if there was a roof over the entire stadium.


----------



## GunnerJacket

carnifex2005 said:


> I'm assuming to let some wind into the stadium. Orlando doesn't have to worry about cold, so the roof is mostly for sun but it would be disgustingly hot if there was a roof over the entire stadium.


Unlikely. If the wind is strong enough to have an influence at that site and at such low elevations then the roof would be better off connected for structural rigidity. There are other ways to provide ventilation and "steer" the air flow, as well. Looking at the design I think it's simply a matter of artistic style and cost savings.

What I'm curious about is the potential for obstructed views for folks seated immediately next to the standing section. Looks as if some folks might have a difficulty looking across the pitch toward the opposite corner. Unless the standing section is full of midgets.


----------



## Chevy114

I would assume to one day add more boards, but don't know


----------



## RMB2007

One screen is more than enough. :cheers:


----------



## tinyslam

What about those sitting to the immediate sides of the screen. They won't even know the score let alone the time or be able to watch highlights.


----------



## Chevy114

That's what I'm saying! I'm sure they will realize real fast how bad this is and fix it.


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

They can add small screens with only results and timing, those that can be installed on fences. You can watch highlights at home or on your phone.

e.g. this










Good job, Orlando!


----------



## goldy21

tinyslam said:


> What about those sitting to the immediate sides of the screen. They won't even know the score let alone the time or be able to watch highlights.


Don't assume that's the only place with the score and time. I'm sure there will be ribbon boards of some sort in other locations throughout the stadium.


----------



## tinyslam

There are small sections of ribbon board around the half line on both sides, but in those renderings they appear to be advertisements. There probably will be score and time segments and this only effects a small section of two stands anyway.


----------



## carnifex2005

*All the details of the new D.C. United stadium*

Article with all the details of the stadium along with 11 pdf's from Populous going through the design of the stadium. Very in depth.


----------



## Lumbergo

GunnerJacket said:


> What I'm curious about is the potential for obstructed views for folks seated immediately next to the standing section. Looks as if some folks might have a difficulty looking across the pitch toward the opposite corner. Unless the standing section is full of midgets.


Single tier vs stacked tiers - you can clearly see that the single tier sits back a few feet behind the second level. Anyone sitting In those sections won't have an issue.


----------



## RMB2007

carnifex2005 said:


> *All the details of the new D.C. United stadium*
> 
> Article with all the details of the stadium along with 11 pdf's from Populous going through the design of the stadium. Very in depth.


----------



## RMB2007

If they go ahead with this, then some fans won't be able to see the entire pitch area due to that concrete wall: 










Kinda reminds me of that corporate area at Yankee Stadium, which they put in the middle of the bleacher seating area.


----------



## GunnerJacket

RMB2007 said:


> If they go ahead with this, then some fans won't be able to see the entire pitch area due to that concrete wall:


If they go ahead with that then even after the move DCU will still have the worst stadium in MLS. 


tinyslam said:


> What about those sitting to the immediate sides of the screen. They won't even know the score let alone the time or be able to watch highlights.


Highlights aren't as important to me during the match, but that is pretty poor placement. Fingers crossed that gets moved.


dinamo_zagreb said:


> e.g. this


Bite me. :tongue:


----------



## aaronniuk

^^

I don't understand why they couldn't have incorporated the MVP Club into an area above the Club Offices...allowing the stand to be extended to the corner? Makes no sense.

I do like the sight line from the corner to the RFK stadium so I am not against an opening there, just think the seated area should run the full length of the Byline.

What are DC fans saying about this?


----------



## H.U.S.T.L.E.

DC fans (myself included) are all over the map. I think there's been more of an initial negative reaction that is softening as they've seen more of the drawings and the reasons for some of those design decisions.

Given the constraints of the site, I'm actually pretty happy with the design. It's quirky, and it's growing on me the more I look at it.

More than anything, I'm just happy that they'll have a place that's not a crumbling piece of junk (even if it that piece of junk does have character).


----------



## KingmanIII

RMB2007 said:


>


lol Sketchup


----------



## BoulderGrad

KingmanIII said:


> lol Sketchup


lol replying with one line to 4 big pictures.


----------



## slipperydog

Mercedez-Benz Stadium will be delayed by three months, and won't open until June 2017. That will affect soccer, not so much football.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/21/new-falcons-stadium-delayed-by-three-months/


----------



## slipperydog

LAFC concept kits from Kramer Design


----------



## aquamaroon

slipperydog said:


> LAFC concept kits from Kramer Design


Looks pretty sharp, like the way the wing is integrated in the shirt, though I wonder how that would look once there was a sponsor name on the chest. Could get a little cluttered.


----------



## Guest

I hope we don't see any of the winged stuff on the LA shirts, just because you'd figure they're going to feature prominently on the Minnesota shirts. The design on the white shirt looks quite similar, if my memory serves me correctly.


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> Mercedez-Benz Stadium will be delayed by three months, and won't open until June 2017. That will affect soccer, not so much football.
> 
> http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/21/new-falcons-stadium-delayed-by-three-months/


Saw that yesterday on a local site. Radio folks implied there's hope of making up the lost time, pending how much Blank wants to add to the bill. I'm curious why this isn't something the design team is covering financially, as by all accounts the error is theirs. If the delay ends up as projected expect the first few home games for AtlUtd to be at Bobby Dodd Stadium, 2 miles away on the campus of GT. They'll surely start with a road heavy schedule but 3 months is a long time to not play anything at home. They could use Herndon Stadium which is closer (3 blocks?) but that only seats about 12-15k. (It's where the Atlanta Beat (women's team) used to play.)

The comments after that article are hilarious. So many clueless people flinging their opinions around. God bless the internet.



slipperydog said:


> LAFC concept kits from Kramer Design


Normally I appreciate a clean look but this feels underwhelming to me. The shade of black isn't quite hitting the mark and the white just makes me think of the Galaxy, which is obviously what they don't want. I figured their road kits would favor the gold.


----------



## Topher51

RMB2007 said:


>


It may not be the architectural gem that we saw in the concept renderings, but it is hardly the worst stadium in the league. Besides, how many of the new generation of stadiums have been built downtown within a street grid? Considering the site constraints, I think they did a good job. Almost has a Fenway vibe too it...

Count me as a satisfied DC United supporter.


----------



## Chevy114

Generic as heck, I expected better out of the city that gave us that unique baseball stadium


----------



## GunnerJacket

Topher51 said:


> It may not be the architectural gem that we saw in the concept renderings, but it is hardly the worst stadium in the league. Besides, how many of the new generation of stadiums have been built downtown within a street grid? Considering the site constraints, I think they did a good job. Almost has a Fenway vibe too it...


I can abide pending the result of two things:

- The materials and handling of the exterior. If it comes across as a truly bare bones structure, skeletal to the cheap extreme, then everything about how it fits into that urban context will suffer, which will begin to weigh on the fan experience. The place and the team won't endear itself to new fans if how the outside world sees it is as little more than a grand high school stadium. I suspect, anyway.

- That d****d private box in the northeast corner. That's just lazy architecture. And I should know since being lazy killed my architectural career!


----------



## Pellshekk

The DC United stadium design is a bit of a shambles, but some of the best football stadiums in the world are a shambles. I really hope they get lucky and it turns out being great.


----------



## MarkJF

aquamaroon said:


> Looks pretty sharp, like the way the wing is integrated in the shirt, though I wonder how that would look once there was a sponsor name on the chest. Could get a little cluttered.


I think the kits are just what they, really boring black and white kits and I don't see pitching your shirt against RM as any bright idea. 

The emblem is superb.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Chevy114 said:


> Generic as heck, I expected better out of the city that gave us that unique baseball stadium


If it's one thing I don't think it is, that's generic. I love that imposing, single tier, uncovered end, reminds me of one of my favourite stadiums (Wroclaw). At the other end the building cutting the stand short is a headscratcher indeed, but at least it's something out of the ordinary and gives character. 

All this is of course not to say it is great or even good stadium.


----------



## Topher51

Chevy114 said:


> Generic as heck, I expected better out of the city that gave us that unique baseball stadium


You mean Nats Park (a.k.a. the stadium that was universally panned as architectural blunder)? Not that I though that, but go back and read the forum from back then. People hated that design and it turned out be a pretty great place to watch a game.


----------



## carlosfng

I like the DC stadium design... except that corner box. Not because it exists, but because it does not allow a section in the end stand to have a full view of the pitch. That aside, the huge imposing single tier, the small (probably away) side stand and the multitiered main stand are all pretty great. Do hope the exterior is not barebones.

As for Orlando, pretty great. You could say a roof can be added on the corners, but I think it is something that can be left for later. Yes, there is only one screen - do hope there are at least ribbon scoreboards on the opposing end of that one screen. The standing section is pretty great as well.

Oh and I just saw the new LAFC uniforms... well, not that impressed. Home kit might have done well with that wing pattern in the away kit. And the away kit might have been better in gold, not your neighbor's main color...


----------



## GunnerJacket

Article in today's Atlanta paper mentioning the delayed opening of the new stadium and what that entails for AUFC. While not confirmed it sounds like the team is ruling out anything below 25k-30k capacity, as that would essentially be a money losing proposition. So it sounds like the Dome, GT or possibly Turner Field are the options. Likely in that order.


----------



## slipperydog

GT seems too narrow for a soccer pitch. Would be nice for them to play on grass at Turner, but I suppose the sooner they get used to playing in a cavernous indoor facility, the better.


----------



## tinyslam

Will Turner be available then, or will Georgia State want to start the conversion as soon as possible?


----------



## GunnerJacket

tinyslam said:


> Will Turner be available then, or will Georgia State want to start the conversion as soon as possible?


I'll be surprised if State has their financing together in time to act that quickly. Technically speaking I believe the Braves hold the right to play at the Ted through June, in case of some calamity at their current construction site. Plus State still hasn't finalized their site plans for the whole area, so I'd be surprised if they could even break ground in the spring, let alone know fully what they would be doing to the Ted.

The irony being that the new MBS, with it's smaller configuration for MLS, would arguably be an ideal set up for State football, as well. If they did that and could use the site of the Ted for other development I imagine that would benefit the school in many ways.

Says I, anyway.


----------



## The Game Is Up

New plans for MLS stadium near Union Station
http://kplr11.com/2016/01/25/new-plans-for-mls-stadium-near-union-station/


----------



## H.U.S.T.L.E.

Chevy114 said:


> Generic as heck, I expected better out of the city that gave us that unique baseball stadium





Topher51 said:


> You mean Nats Park (a.k.a. the stadium that was universally panned as architectural blunder)? Not that I though that, but go back and read the forum from back then. People hated that design and it turned out be a pretty great place to watch a game.


While Nats Park is a great place to watch a game from practically anywhere in the stadium (even the concourses), I would disagree with it being "unique."

Chevy114, have you ever been to DC and seen a Nats game?


----------



## EdooGdl

.-


----------



## GunnerJacket

The Game Is Up said:


> New plans for MLS stadium near Union Station
> http://kplr11.com/2016/01/25/new-plans-for-mls-stadium-near-union-station/


Obviously a crude and early concept but I could easily get behind that idea, architecturally. You'd want to spend a little extra to ensure the design matches the historic site and context of the neighborhood, but done right that could also easily become one of the most endearing and special venues in the US soccer scene. (Which they might _have_ to do not only to hold up against KC's great stadium but also to rebuild some fan spirit after losing the Rams.) STL would at least have natural rivalries with KC and CHI on hand, so provided the locals can share the summer between the Cards and an MLS side I'd be willing to consider this. Pending the owner commitment, of course.


----------



## BoulderGrad

The Game Is Up said:


> New plans for MLS stadium near Union Station
> http://kplr11.com/2016/01/25/new-plans-for-mls-stadium-near-union-station/





GunnerJacket said:


> Obviously a crude and early concept but I could easily get behind that idea, architecturally. You'd want to spend a little extra to ensure the design matches the historic site and context of the neighborhood, but done right that could also easily become one of the most endearing and special venues in the US soccer scene. (Which they might _have_ to do not only to hold up against KC's great stadium but also to rebuild some fan spirit after losing the Rams.) STL would at least have natural rivalries with KC and CHI on hand, so provided the locals can share the summer between the Cards and an MLS side I'd be willing to consider this. Pending the owner commitment, of course.


This is akin to the sketchup model someone on SSC did for the new Detroit Red Wings arena. Local news media picked it up as "leak concept for what the arena could look like". As of now, there has been zero official movement on a team or stadium in St Louis. Just lots of speculation and dreaming. Its been getting more attention now since the Rams left, but nothing concrete yet.


----------



## Chevy114

H.U.S.T.L.E. said:


> While Nats Park is a great place to watch a game from practically anywhere in the stadium (even the concourses), I would disagree with it being "unique."
> 
> Chevy114, have you ever been to DC and seen a Nats game?


I have not been, but the outside is different than the average brick and concrete stadium that baseball has known to copy over and over. That's why I said unique. Once you're in the park who cares if you have a giant baseball glove for no reason or a train that goes back and forth in the outfield after home runs?


----------



## slipperydog

Bill Reese
‏@ReeseCommaBill
Anyone want to venture a guess why a int'l sports media rights agency just trademarked the name "New York United FC" 

https://twitter.com/ReeseCommaBill/status/692450290650497027


Two United Fans ↗ ‏@TwoUnitedFans 39m39 minutes ago
Whoa Riccardo Silva's (Miami FC owner) company just trademarked 'New York United FC'... #NASL


----------



## ReNaHtEiM

If there should ever be a third team in NYC it has to be Cosmos.


----------



## GunnerJacket

New York United? How incredibly desperate and droll.



ReNaHtEiM said:


> If there should ever be a third team in NYC it has to be Cosmos.


There already is a Cosmos. If you mean in MLS, I don't think you'll see another NY team in MLS. At least, not for a generation and then only under extraordinary circumstances. There's still plenty of room for fans at RBNY and NYCFC, and the latter doesn't even have a proper venue. No reason to accept a 3rd, let alone pursue one.


----------



## The Game Is Up

David Beckham rep: Soccer stadium without parking a ‘good bet to make’

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article56798303.html#storylink=cpy


Lawmaker Proposes Funding Soccer Stadium With Sales Tax (St. Louis)

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2016/01/27/lawmaker-proposes-funding-soccer-stadium-with-sales-tax/


Details coming on St. Paul soccer stadium, park, stores

http://www.twincities.com/2016/01/26/soccer-stadiums-impact-on-neighborhood-touted/


City, county likely to hear soccer stadium pitch (Charlotte)

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlott...unty-likely-to-hear-soccer-stadium-pitch.html


Sales tax could fund a Major League Soccer stadium in St. Louis

http://lakeexpo.com/news/top_storie...cle_c8192c6a-c549-11e5-b4b6-e75a70cd4b2e.html


Nixon plans talk this week with MLS commissioner about expansion (St. Louis)

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_2b4bf73a-d149-5937-998c-dc99ff918e9c.html










Yankees expand credit facility as they search for NYCFC site

https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2016/01/25/Franchises/Yankees.aspx


----------



## GunnerJacket

Thanks for the links, Game. It's great to hear the news from various outlets!



The Game Is Up said:


> Lawmaker Proposes Funding Soccer Stadium With Sales Tax (St. Louis)
> 
> http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2016/01/27/lawmaker-proposes-funding-soccer-stadium-with-sales-tax/
> 
> Sales tax could fund a Major League Soccer stadium in St. Louis
> 
> http://lakeexpo.com/news/top_storie...cle_c8192c6a-c549-11e5-b4b6-e75a70cd4b2e.html
> 
> Nixon plans talk this week with MLS commissioner about expansion (St. Louis)
> 
> http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_2b4bf73a-d149-5937-998c-dc99ff918e9c.html


I'd have thought they'd want to lay low on mentioning taxes for such a project right now, especially without an identified prospective team owner leading the charge. So for now I'll assume this is largely the emotional rush of reacting to the Rams' move. From MLS' perspective, though, it's nice to feel wanted.



> Details coming on St. Paul soccer stadium, park, stores
> 
> http://www.twincities.com/2016/01/26/soccer-stadiums-impact-on-neighborhood-touted/


Thus far all signs indicate they're going about this the right way. I'm anxious to see the concept images, but compared to, say, DC United, I'm more interested in their overall plans for the full site as opposed to the stadium proper. This will allegedly be the first time an MLS stadium will be designed within an urban footprint but with full control over adjoining properties, as well, allowing them to further shape that context. Exciting opportunity, that.



> City, county likely to hear soccer stadium pitch (Charlotte)
> 
> http://www.bizjournals.com/charlott...unty-likely-to-hear-soccer-stadium-pitch.html


Pleased to see they're talking about it. Initially their plans for Memorial Stadium, however, seem out of reach. If the 80-yo venue would need an extensive makeover for a viable 10k seat capacity then why even keep the structure? Might be that all they'd save is the lower bowl (if the top half could be easily removed) and everything is built behind and over that? 

Again, it's just nice to know MLS is being seen as an attractive and viable option.


----------



## slipperydog

Grant Wahl ‏@GrantWahl 17m17 minutes ago
Good story on why stadium designs like DC United's change over time by @tdnewcomb

Renderings vs. Reality: Why do stadium designs frequently change?

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2016/01/27/soccer-stadium-renderings-design-changes


----------



## aaronniuk

slipperydog said:


> Grant Wahl ‏@GrantWahl 17m17 minutes ago
> Good story on why stadium designs like DC United's change over time by @tdnewcomb
> 
> Renderings vs. Reality: Why do stadium designs frequently change?
> 
> http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2016/01/27/soccer-stadium-renderings-design-changes


Though the DC stadium renderings did not change as a result of fan influence or community concerns. MONEY!


----------



## aquamaroon

aaronniuk said:


> Though the DC stadium renderings did not change as a result of fan influence or community concerns. MONEY!


haha yeah it would be pretty disingenuous to say they changed the stadium to fit it with what dc united united supporters or the neighborhood wanted. I think we all know the rea$on for the $tadium rede$ign :lol:


----------



## KingmanIII

aaronniuk said:


> Though the DC stadium renderings did not change as a result of fan influence or community concerns. MONEY!


moar liek *D¢* United

amirite?


----------



## GunnerJacket

Alright... That's pretty funny!


----------



## RMB2007

Another previous design for a new D.C. United stadium:


----------



## Benn

Thats way better than what they ended up with and doesn't look all that much more expensive. Too bad they didn't make this plan work.


----------



## master_klon

Well done Orlando, great news for the club and for the development of soccer in the US.

*Orlando City SC announce plans for 23-acre training facility in Lake Nona community*










Orlando City SC announced Friday they will partner with the Lake Nona community in Orlando to built a new 23-acre training facility that is expected to open in 2017. The facility will be home to Orlando City’s first team, their USL side Orlando City B and the club’s U.S. Soccer Development Academy teams. The teams’ current facility in Seminole County will become home to the National Women’s Soccer League’s Orlando Pride starting in 2017. Construction on the Lake Nona site is expected to start immediately.

“This development in Lake Nona is another great example of the Club’s expanding footprint, and the resulting economic benefit, throughout Central Florida,” said Orlando City co-owner and president Phil Rawlins in a team statement. “It complements the construction of our new home in downtown Orlando, and provides our MLS and USL teams with a great training facility also featuring a host of synergistic amenities in Lake Nona. We are thankful for this partnership with Tavistock and Lake Nona, who have been longtime supporters of Orlando City and the sport of soccer, and we look forward to a successful, championship future together."

The soccer campus will include six practice fields, training and fitness centers, a players' clubhouse, locker rooms and a rehab and injury center. It will also include film rooms and classrooms for Orlando City players and academy players. Orlando City also holds an option to acquire 20-plus acres directly in front of the new facilities to expand in the future. The Tavistock Group, which owns Lake Nona, a 7,000-acre planned community with the Orlando city limits, will develop the complex.


----------



## master_klon

Just saw the announcement that the minimum capacity for stadia in the Proposed, Under Construction, and Completed sections has been reduced from 30,000+ to 20,000+. At the moment the only soccer-specific stadium with a capacity over 30,000 is Toronto FC's BMO Field. 

A number of stadiums can now be included in the Completed section:

Stubhub Center - LA Galaxy - 27,000
Red Bull Arena - New York Red Bulls - 25,000
BBVA Compass Stadium - Houston Dynamo - 22,039
Providence Park - Portland Timbers - 21,144
Saputo Stadium - Montreal Impact - 20,801
Toyota Stadium - FC Dallas - 20,500
Rio Tinto Stadium - Real Salt Lake - 20,213
Mapfre Stadium - Columbus Crew - 20,145
Toyota Park - Chicago Fire - 20,000

There is one stadium which can be included in the Under Construction section:

Orlando City Stadium - 25,500

There is one stadium proposal which can be included in the Proposed section:

LAFC Stadium - 22,000

There are another two proposed stadiums, but their capacities have not been confirmed:

Minnesota United FC Stadium - 20,000
DC United Stadium - between 18,000 to 23,000

And there are a few MLS stadiums that still do not meet the new requirements:

Talen Energy Stadium - Philadelphia Union - 18,500
Children's Mercy Park - Sporting Kansas City - 18,467
Dick's Sporting Goods Park - Colorado Rapids -18,086
Avaya Stadium - San Jose Earthquakes - 18,800

Personally, I think the minimum requirement is too low now and should have only been reduced to 25,000. Oh well.


----------



## BlazerBlaze

Options for an alternative starting home for the United just got reduced to Bobby Dodd. AJC saying the Georgia Dome will close in March despite the opening delay of MBS. 

http://www.myajc.com/news/sports/football/plans-in-works-to-decommission-the-dome/nqFFh/

So for those keeping track at home ATL United will either start playing 1) at the narrow Bobby Dodd stadium OR
2) on the road till June and have their first home game in MBS.


----------



## slipperydog

Still think Turner Field makes the most sense. For a handful of home games, why not? Plenty of room, and natural grass.


----------



## BlazerBlaze

slipperydog said:


> Still think Turner Field makes the most sense. For a handful of home games, why not? Plenty of room, and natural grass.


Going to be in control of Georgia State by then. They wont want to delay the conversion for someone else's soccer team.


----------



## slipperydog

nothing a little green won't solve. Blank hurting for that these days?

brick wall on a narrow field at GT sounds like a disaster waiting to happen


----------



## tinyslam

slipperydog said:


> nothing a little green won't solve. Blank hurting for that these days?


Well he is spending a billion dollars building a stadium so IDK.

To be honest I'm a little upset at this decision to close the Dome that early. If it was the beginning of the Falcon's season no way would they have to play at Bobby Dodd.


----------



## GunnerJacket

BlazerBlaze said:


> So for those keeping track at home ATL United will either start playing 1) at the narrow Bobby Dodd stadium OR
> 2) on the road till June and have their first home game in MBS.


I suspect it will be only a handful of games at Bobby Dodd. They'll likely start off on the road, come home for a 3 game stint, hit the road again and then return for the opener in the MBS. Not ideal but manageable. 



BlazerBlaze said:


> (Turner Field is...) Going to be in control of Georgia State by then. They wont want to delay the conversion for someone else's soccer team.


Ga State still needs the cash and the development plan for the property, and in theory they won't need to start with Turner Field. Plenty of other land they can develop. Whether they'll go that route, though...



slipperydog said:


> nothing a little green won't solve. Blank hurting for that these days?


Like many folks in this investment cycle he's a bit cash poor, comparably speaking. More importantly, the work to be done on the roof structures was delayed due to design changes, meaning there's not much leeway for expediting that schedule further. I suspect much of that labor will require daylight for the scope of operation involved. I think, anyway.



> brick wall on a narrow field at GT sounds like a disaster waiting to happen


Possibly. The women's team Atlanta Beat played a season there, so it's not unheard of. I suspect they'll incorporate the team seating into the stands and forego expansive room for substitute players jogging the sideline. Probably a lot like when the old Clash played at SJSU's Spartan Stadium. 

Hopefully it won't lead do some disastrous injury in what should be a very brief visit. Fingers crossed!

And seeing as it's my alma mater...! :cheers:



tinyslam said:


> To be honest I'm a little upset at this decision to close the Dome that early. If it was the beginning of the Falcon's season no way would they have to play at Bobby Dodd.


Agreed. I suspect the GWCC is desperate to get the new hotel underway and both they and the Falcons are anxious to get their hands on more parking.

Yay.


----------



## JJG

So... this _might_ be happening for Fort Worth...










There are rumors that the Ft. Worth Vaqueros (NPSL) are working with Texas Wesleyan University (NAIA), who is currently looking for a head coach at the moment, to build and share a stadium.

The stadium would supposedly sit at the corner of Binkley and Rosedale, or at least near it.











This is... surprising.


----------



## GunnerJacket

That would be quite the home for teams of that stature. My question is about the exterior facade depicting a mixed use streetscape. Looks as if they're trying to hide the fact it's a stadium.


----------



## JJG

GunnerJacket said:


> That would be quite the home for teams of that stature. My question is about the exterior facade depicting a mixed use streetscape. Looks as if they're trying to hide the fact it's a stadium.


Here's the thing about that area... it's on the Eastside, which is old and has been long neglected. To MANY people, it's "the hood". This part of the city (along with many other neighborhoods within the core) is currently rebuilding. So my thinking is, they're wanting this to look as nice as possible while still fitting in with the rest of the neighborhood, as if they don't want it to look completely out of place.

I don't mind the storefront-like facade, especially since it will sit on one of the major roads in the city and right on the edge of a college campus. TWU is part of Fort Wort's Urban Village program, and this would be a major spark.


----------



## irving1903

It still looks at bit big for them but I've heard so much about Texas Wes of late. Everyone back home knows someone who's either transferred or enrolled in grad school there. Good to see it growing like this and hopefully it helps with the Poly/Wesleyan Urban Village.


----------



## JJG

irving1903 said:


> It still looks at bit big for them but I've heard so much about Texas Wes of late. Everyone back home knows someone who's either transferred or enrolled in grad school there. Good to see it growing like this and hopefully it helps with the Poly/Wesleyan Urban Village.


Oh it IS big for them. After all, they don't even have the program yet.


----------



## carnifex2005

Detroit City FC reached their milestone of $400k to begin refurbishment of Keyworth Stadium. Their goal is $750k by Feb. 15th.

http://home.detcityfc.com/news_article/show/607025

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sp...eets-keyworth-fundraising-threshold/79750372/


----------



## Chevy114

Would Detroit try to play MLS level soccer one day there or at Ford Field?


----------



## H.U.S.T.L.E.

Chevy114 said:


> Would Detroit try to play MLS level soccer one day there or at Ford Field?


Hard to say, but if Detroit City FC is ever going to make the leap then they'll need outside investors to do so, and all indications are that the club owners would prefer to keep a controlling stake in the team. The talk is that it may be easier for them (and more financially viable) to move up to NASL than MLS.

100 million dollar expansion fees for MLS will make the jump very difficult, and it appears as if there's a long line of cities in front of Detroit anyway. Just off the top of my head, Sacramento, St. Louis and San Diego are all more attractive options to MLS brass right now.


----------



## aaronniuk

Although its not in the american culture to renovate but he Silver Dome is an option if Detroit wanted to make a step up.


----------



## H.U.S.T.L.E.

aaronniuk said:


> Although its not in the american culture to renovate but he Silver Dome is an option if Detroit wanted to make a step up.


It's not an ideal scenario for several reasons. First off, the reason that the Pontiac Silverdome has been in such bad shape is that places like Pontiac (a suburb of Detroit) have struggled mightily. When the stadium was built in 1975, the population of Pontiac was starting to decline and that has continued over the last 40 years.

Now while the downtown core is revitalizing slowly, some of the outlying areas of Detroit still have large chunks of vacant housing. The Silverdome itself is 30 minutes outside the city center too. Some of the most successful soccer stadiums in the US have been built in downtown locations, and the Silverdome is the exact opposite of an urban center.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Atlanta United have announced the price ranges for their season ticket packages. $20 - $60 per game for the 18 game season. Will find out next week about taxes, "convenience fees," and whatnot. If the low end applies to the supporters end I'll be quite happy. Plenty of opportunities to embarrass myself on TV, perhaps!


----------



## aaronniuk

H.U.S.T.L.E. said:


> It's not an ideal scenario for several reasons. First off, the reason that the Pontiac Silverdome has been in such bad shape is that places like Pontiac (a suburb of Detroit) have struggled mightily. When the stadium was built in 1975, the population of Pontiac was starting to decline and that has continued over the last 40 years.
> 
> Now while the downtown core is revitalizing slowly, some of the outlying areas of Detroit still have large chunks of vacant housing. The Silverdome itself is 30 minutes outside the city center too. Some of the most successful soccer stadiums in the US have been built in downtown locations, and the Silverdome is the exact opposite of an urban center.


I'm against any suburban stadium. Match day atmosphere is sorely lacking. Chicago Fire, the prime example. My point that a relatively new stadium is available, albeit would require maintenance and renovation. But that would a fraction of the cost of building a new stadium.


----------



## tinyslam

GunnerJacket said:


> Atlanta United have announced the price ranges for their season ticket packages. $20 - $60 per game for the 18 game season. Will find out next week about taxes, "convenience fees," and whatnot. If the low end applies to the supporters end I'll be quite happy. Plenty of opportunities to embarrass myself on TV, perhaps!


Yup it's $20 a game for the supporters end under the "downtown window" according to a price chart I saw on Instagram. :cheers: They said they would start contacting people February 8th for purchasing tickets.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Chevy114 said:


> Would Detroit try to play MLS level soccer one day there or at Ford Field?


Neither

I suppose there's an outside chance you'd see a team play at Ford Field if they were co-owned by the Lions, but I'd venture a guess that any MLS ownership would try to get a SSS.

As for this site, too small, too hemmed in.


----------



## JJG

aaronniuk said:


> *Although its not in the american culture to renovate* but he Silver Dome is an option if Detroit wanted to make a step up.


Are you sure about that?

Because there's a 45k seat stadium just up the road from my house that's more than 80 years old and you wouldn't be able to tell... 










Side note: GOD, I love our stadium.


----------



## aaronniuk

That's one example.

Across America there are buildings that are 30 years old that are derelict. 

Teams up and leave stadiums for a new stadium in a county that will offer them better tax breaks. What happens with the old stadium?


----------



## KingmanIII

^^ In most cases, they're demolished to make room for new development and/or parking.

In rare cases, they're preserved and repurposed, like the Highbury-style conversion of Indianapolis' Bush Stadium's into lofts:


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

GunnerJacket said:


> Atlanta United have announced the price ranges for their season ticket packages. $20 - $60 per game for the 18 game season. Will find out next week about taxes, "convenience fees," and whatnot. If the low end applies to the supporters end I'll be quite happy. Plenty of opportunities to embarrass myself on TV, perhaps!


Damn, those are some cheap prices! im jealous


----------



## GunnerJacket

JJG said:


> Are you sure about that?
> 
> Because there's a 45k seat stadium just up the road from my house that's more than 80 years old and you wouldn't be able to tell...


But to be fair the only thing that's more than several years old is the lower seating bowl, which doesn't even have an exterior structure. Yes, technically it's an old stadium, but at least 75% of the structure is younger than my 5th grader.



LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> Damn, those are some cheap prices! im jealous


I'm glad they've kept it low, which suggests they want to draw and keep fans, and that they listened during the fan surveys. Plus they know this is a relatively new product so for now they'll treat us with high degrees of price sensitivity. We'll see how well it works, and how long it lasts.

In the meantime, thanks Uncle Arthur!


----------



## slipperydog

feasibility study is being conducted for soccer stadium in Albuquerque

http://www.bizjournals.com/albuquer...uquerque-sol-fcs-passion-still-as-big-as.html


----------



## slipperydog

Generic shield. Huge missed opportunity to incorporate the Alamo into the crown of the crest.


----------



## Guest

^Lol, oh lord.


----------



## Bigmac1212

slipperydog said:


> Generic shield. Huge missed opportunity to incorporate the Alamo into the crown of the crest.


Do I see the San Antonio Spurs logo in that?


----------



## carnifex2005

Yeah, they're owned by the Spurs. Didn't think they'd be so blatant in the branding though.


----------



## Znak25

NYCFC news about a possible stadium
http://www.hudsonriverblue.com/2016...ecific-stadium-populous-jonathan-mallie-nycfc


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> Or maybe they just a need a pro team at the highest level to show their worth.


I think there has to be some truth to this about many cities. Some of it is image, wherein the community sees association with a minor league as an indicator they, too, are minor league. In other cases a minor league sport isn't the spectacle needed to lure folks out to watch versus other entertainment options. At least if you're in the major leagues then you know about select celebrity players, you appreciate that it's the pinnacle of the game, you can follow the teams on ESPN...

It simply seems a US phenomena where minor leagues, by and large, = developmental scrimmages that aren't worth the dedicated support for communities that aspire to be "big time." I think the historical development of collegiate sports vs. pro sports has fed into that.

But I digress.


----------



## Chevy114

This is getting crazy until I see everyones first game I won't know who to believe is getting an mls spot lol


----------



## GunnerJacket

Pretty much. I'm buying into the Sacramento rumors but beyond that it's anyone's guess. I'd assume the reason there are so few other options we could consider unanimous is why MLS is putting some effort into making sure they make the right call.


----------



## GunnerJacket

And Atlanta United is now officially selling tix! Got my 2 in front row of section 103!


----------



## SJAnfield

aaronniuk said:


> Landon Donovan leading San Diego USL Franchise...
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.lagalaxy.com/post/2016/0...oup-interested-bringing-usl-san-diego-updated



I hope it crashes and burns! 

Did I mention I'm a loyal Earthquakes supporter?


----------



## Guest

bd popeye said:


> San Diego is a "hotbed" of soccer...San Diego has some of the highest TV ratings for soccer in the US. But they won't get a team anytime soon. Why?
> 
> 1) No ownership group.
> 2) No SSS.(soccer specific stadium)..or proposals to build one.


Which is how it should be. Meanwhile in St Louis....:cheers:



GunnerJacket said:


> I think there has to be some truth to this about many cities. Some of it is image, wherein the community sees association with a minor league as an indicator they, too, are minor league. In other cases a minor league sport isn't the spectacle needed to lure folks out to watch versus other entertainment options. At least if you're in the major leagues then you know about select celebrity players, you appreciate that it's the pinnacle of the game, you can follow the teams on ESPN...
> 
> It simply seems a US phenomena where minor leagues, by and large, = developmental scrimmages that aren't worth the dedicated support for communities that aspire to be "big time." I think the historical development of collegiate sports vs. pro sports has fed into that.
> 
> But I digress.


True, and even Sounders got very underwhelming attendance in the lower leagues. IIRC something like 3-5,000? 

It'd be ideal if every MLS aspirant was an Orlando or Sacramento, but that's probably not realistic.


----------



## The Game Is Up

No bland MLS stadium for St. Paul, United FC owner says

http://www.twincities.com/2016/02/08/fmmcguirestadium0216/


MLS in St. Louis? What’s the history of soccer here?

http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/mls-st-louis-what-s-history-soccer-here


----------



## tinyslam

GunnerJacket said:


> And Atlanta United is now officially selling tix! Got my 2 in front row of section 103!


I'm jealous. Turns out I was misreading my deposit receipt so I have no idea what number in line I am but I should be within the first 6,000. I'm crossing my fingers that there will still be supporters section tickets left.


----------



## BlazerBlaze

Virtual Venue for ATL United!!! 

http://atlutd.io-media.com/web/index.html#


----------



## GunnerJacket

The Game Is Up said:


> No bland MLS stadium for St. Paul, United FC owner says
> 
> http://www.twincities.com/2016/02/08/fmmcguirestadium0216/


I kinda wish they wouldn't build the hype this way. Just lay low and then hit us with a great reveal!


> MLS in St. Louis? What’s the history of soccer here?
> 
> http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/mls-st-louis-what-s-history-soccer-here


On the surface it makes great sense. Alas, we're human and this involves lots of money, so the amount of common sense involved drops as those factors increase in influence!



tinyslam said:


> I'm jealous. Turns out I was misreading my deposit receipt so I have no idea what number in line I am but I should be within the first 6,000. I'm crossing my fingers that there will still be supporters section tickets left.


By volume that should be the case, but it may only be general admission. The outside sections of that end were the only ones offering assigned seats when we spoke, and section 135(?) was already 14 rows deep and with the back row (my plan b) also sold out. Not sure how many seats those 2 sections have but it may be pretty close for you. 

If you get boxed out then find me and I'll buy you a beer to compensate for your misfortune!


----------



## Chevy114

The Game Is Up said:


> MLS in St. Louis? What’s the history of soccer here?
> 
> http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/mls-st-louis-what-s-history-soccer-here


I hate when people think we don't have soccer ties to St. Louis a few of our national players are from there


----------



## tinyslam

GunnerJacket said:


> By volume that should be the case, but it may only be general admission. The outside sections of that end were the only ones offering assigned seats when we spoke, and section 135(?) was already 14 rows deep and with the back row (my plan b) also sold out. Not sure how many seats those 2 sections have but it may be pretty close for you.


Rumor has it that there will be ~2,000 General Admission seating in the lower half of 136, 101, and 102. If they are not selling the upper half yet that's probably a good sign that they are holding off on it to see how many GA tickets they need.


----------



## will101

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but stadiony.net and stadiumdb.com are having their annual 'Stadium of the Year' voting. Go here, then select a five star (best) down to a one star (fifth best) choice.


----------



## The Game Is Up

David Beckham shopping partnership stake in MLS team

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/mls/article59434652.html


Schafer: Is St. Paul soccer parking headed for an off-ramp?

http://www.startribune.com/is-st-paul-soccer-parking-headed-for-an-off-ramp/368263521/


----------



## pesto

The Game Is Up said:


> David Beckham shopping partnership stake in MLS team
> 
> http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/mls/article59434652.html
> 
> 
> Schafer: Is St. Paul soccer parking headed for an off-ramp?
> 
> http://www.startribune.com/is-st-paul-soccer-parking-headed-for-an-off-ramp/368263521/


Good to see that Beckham has finally done something useful and is seekng to bring in money and competence. He's a brand, not someone with actual ability to work a deal.

With proper funding Miami could join LA, NY and a few other sides with the ability to attract star players and eventually rival the major world leagues. About 6 teams with consistent ability to catch international attention would do wonders for US soccer.


----------



## GunnerJacket

pesto said:


> With proper funding Miami could join LA, NY and a few other sides with the ability to attract star players and eventually rival the major world leagues. About 6 teams with consistent ability to catch international attention would do wonders for US soccer.


I'd be tickled with 2, let alone 6. Bundesliga has, what, 3?


----------



## carnifex2005

pesto said:


> Good to see that Beckham has finally done something useful and is seekng to bring in money and competence. He's a brand, not someone with actual ability to work a deal.
> 
> With proper funding Miami could join LA, NY and a few other sides with the ability to attract star players and eventually rival the major world leagues. About 6 teams with consistent ability to catch international attention would do wonders for US soccer.


Apparently he sold out to the Qataris...

Have been told by an impeccable source that the Qataris have taken ownership of David Beckham's MLS team. #Beckham will remain face of club


----------



## slipperydog

Would this be the first group from the Middle East to invest in an American sports franchise?


----------



## noize

Oh, boy. If true, now big money is coming, and make sure to supervise your league officials integrity.


----------



## Guest

slipperydog said:


> Would this be the first group from the Middle East to invest in an American sports franchise?


New York City FC. Yes, theyre owned by Man City, but Abu Dhabi's Royal family own City, so it's more or less the same thing.


----------



## slipperydog

A few notes on expansion:

Minnesota likely to enter in 2017, playing at TCF Bank Stadium, with a new name (i.e. dropping the 'United')

MLS likely to approve sale of Becks FC to PSG owners

Sacramento and St. Louis seen as leading contenders for next expansion sites (although why St. Louis is considered to be ahead of San Antonio despite no ownership group, no stadium, and no track record of local club support is beyond me)

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/201...united-2017-atlanta-st-louis-sacramento-miami


----------



## will101

slipperydog said:


> A few notes on expansion:
> 
> Minnesota likely to enter in 2017, playing at TCF Bank Stadium, with a new name (i.e. dropping the 'United')


Good, better, best.


> MLS likely to approve sale of Becks FC to PSG owners


What was accomplished in all of that?


> Sacramento and St. Louis seen as leading contenders for next expansion sites (although why St. Louis is seen as being ahead of San Antonio despite no ownership group, no stadium, and no track record of local club support is beyond me)


At a guess, they looked at a map, and saw a big gap without one of their pins in it.


> http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/201...united-2017-atlanta-st-louis-sacramento-miami


----------



## RMB2007

> The U.S. government is finally investigating artificial turf’s possible cancer link
> 
> After a long period of frustration and hand-wringing, the U.S. government is finally responding to the public’s concerns about artificial turf and its potential link to cancer. For some time now, researchers have suspected that dangerous chemicals found in artificial turf are making their way into people’s bodies – especially children – and possibly being correlated to cancer rates. Three agencies will begin an investigation, following a call to action which reached all the way to the White House.


http://inhabitat.com/the-u-s-govern...n-into-artificial-turfs-possible-cancer-link/


----------



## GunnerJacket

Wha? I can't even grasp how that's possible. Good grief.


----------



## GunnerJacket

will101 said:


> Actually, you had better pray for some large gaps in the seating in Sacramento. During the summer Sacramento is an average of 10-12 degrees warmer than the South Bay...


No doubt, but I'll assume the owners and architects will take this into consideration as they craft any final design.



slipperydog said:


> A few notes on expansion:
> 
> Minnesota likely to enter in 2017, playing at TCF Bank Stadium, with a new name (i.e. dropping the 'United')


Not surprising. Keeps the league at even numbers. Sorry about the name change, though. Having already conceded to my own Atlanta's lazy co-op of the name I don't see why MLS would have a grounds for saying no to MnU seeing as they're an established brand. Poor coordination by MLS on their part.



> MLS likely to approve sale of Becks FC to PSG owners


If they turn into another satellite franchise a la NYCFC then, please, just shoot me. I appreciate the idea of heavy hitting investors but please don't capitulate further to this idea of colonizing club brands. 

F*** no.



> Sacramento and St. Louis seen as leading contenders for next expansion sites (although why St. Louis is considered to be ahead of San Antonio despite no ownership group, no stadium, and no track record of local club support is beyond me)


As said before, MLS will want to expand in foursomes if possible, so it's less a matter of bypassing the Alamo city and more about finding the best options available to complement them and Sacramento.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Local business leaders form Major League Soccer exploration group

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_ad12f69f-8606-558a-a624-68f6ddcdb8b6.html




> Garber has often said that urban MLS stadiums have done well for their teams. Earlier this month, he told the Post-Dispatch he was “very excited” by the St. Louis north riverfront site chosen by Peacock and Gov. Jay Nixon’s National Football League task force.
> 
> Woodcock acknowledged the league’s interest in downtown sites, and said the north riverfront is certainly on their list. “This is the trend,” he said. “I think the ideal scenario for St. Louis is to be part of that trend.”
> 
> Still, he said the group will “conduct a thorough exploration of potential stadium sites. We’re not going to limit our thinking.”


----------



## Guest

Dropping United? Minnesota Loons? I mean, Minnesota should have first use of United, couldnt think of a more apt name, especially given the location of the stadium. 

Beckham is still likely to remain the face of Miami, so who cares who owns it? The guy probably just made a profit on it, will stsy the face of the team, and doesnt have to live in Miami or take criticism of performance. Win-win-win for Becks. 

Artificial turf? Good. Sounders SSS incoming.


----------



## Chevy114

RMB2007 said:


> http://inhabitat.com/the-u-s-govern...n-into-artificial-turfs-possible-cancer-link/


Finally! Next you'll tell me that they will investigate Monsanto!


----------



## Chevy114

slipperydog said:


> A few notes on expansion:
> 
> Minnesota likely to enter in 2017, playing at TCF Bank Stadium, with a new name (i.e. dropping the 'United')
> 
> MLS likely to approve sale of Becks FC to PSG owners
> 
> Sacramento and St. Louis seen as leading contenders for next expansion sites (although why St. Louis is considered to be ahead of San Antonio despite no ownership group, no stadium, and no track record of local club support is beyond me)
> 
> http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/201...united-2017-atlanta-st-louis-sacramento-miami


Can they serve beer at that stadium? I know that's always an issue with pro teams using college facilities


----------



## Benn

Chevy114 said:


> Can they serve beer at that stadium? I know that's always an issue with pro teams using college facilities


They been serving beer at TCF for a few years now for Gophers Games and have served beer for every Vikings game it hosted so that won't be a problem. My biggest concern is the field width is a bit for a proper pitch. But as a one year temporary venue it should be more than serviceable.


----------



## Chevy114

Benn said:


> They been serving beer at TCF for a few years now for Gophers Games and have served beer for every Vikings game it hosted so that won't be a problem. My biggest concern is the field width is a bit for a proper pitch. But as a one year temporary venue it should be more than serviceable.


Oh good, most college campuses are dry


----------



## pesto

RMB2007 said:


> http://inhabitat.com/the-u-s-govern...n-into-artificial-turfs-possible-cancer-link/


LOL. Probably 10,000 artificial surfaces in every country in the world for 60 years. Maybe longer for indoor tennis, track and the like.


----------



## pesto

5portsF4n said:


> Dropping United? Minnesota Loons? I mean, Minnesota should have first use of United, couldnt think of a more apt name, especially given the location of the stadium.
> 
> Beckham is still likely to remain the face of Miami, so who cares who owns it? The guy probably just made a profit on it, will stsy the face of the team, and doesnt have to live in Miami or take criticism of performance. Win-win-win for Becks.
> 
> Artificial turf? Good. Sounders SSS incoming.


"Who cares who owns it?" :lol:

The perfect consumer: only the face of the organization counts!


----------



## Lakeland

pesto said:


> LOL. Probably 10,000 artificial surfaces in every country in the world for 60 years. Maybe longer for indoor tennis, track and the like.


There's a difference between those artificial surfaces and FieldTurf that uses crumb rubber.


----------



## Lakeland

carnifex2005 said:


> *DETROIT CITY FC RAISES $741,250 THROUGH COMMUNITY INVESTMENT CAMPAIGN*



Keyworth Panorama by ryankeberly, on Flickr

It's a 10-year deal for the club to lease Keyworth Stadium. When renovated it will seat up to 6,000, which is a good number compared to the 2,500 at Cass Tech. Hamtramck also has a large immigrant population (especially from Eastern Europe and the Middle East) which should help the team gain even more support.


----------



## Guest

pesto said:


> "Who cares who owns it?" :lol:
> 
> The perfect consumer: only the face of the organization counts!


If youre suggesting Qatari ownership is bad for Miami, Id point you towards their track record at PSG. 

You mentioned yourself MLS should strive to have 4-6 super clubs. You wont create those with Beckham as the majority owner. You need Middle Eastern money for that.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Plans unveiled for development around United soccer stadium in St. Paul

http://www.startribune.com/plans-un...d-united-soccer-stadium-in-st-paul/369362031/


Is St. Louis hoping to fill Rams void with MLS expansion team?

http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/ins...s-forms-group-to-explore-possible-team-021716


St. Louis raises MLS expansion game

http://www.socceramerica.com/article/67732/st-louis-raises-mls-expansion-game.html


----------



## aaronniuk

Lakeland said:


> Keyworth Panorama by ryankeberly, on Flickr
> 
> It's a 10-year deal for the club to lease Keyworth Stadium. When renovated it will seat up to 6,000, which is a good number compared to the 2,500 at Cass Tech. Hamtramck also has a large immigrant population (especially from Eastern Europe and the Middle East) which should help the team gain even more support.


Think the Detroit City project is fantastic. I would expect to see them enter the USL in the next 10 years. 

Any one know what the area is like? Is it populated or does it suffer from the cliche of dereliction?

Seems there is some green space close to the stadium which who knows could be used for youth team coaching. Endless possibilities in a city that has endless potential.


----------



## H.U.S.T.L.E.

aaronniuk said:


> Think the Detroit City project is fantastic. I would expect to see them enter the USL in the next 10 years.
> 
> Any one know what the area is like? Is it populated or does it suffer from the cliche of dereliction?
> 
> Seems there is some green space close to the stadium which who knows could be used for youth team coaching. Endless possibilities in a city that has endless potential.


From what I understand, Hamtramck experiences a little bit of both. It's populated largely by immigrants, and is thought to be the first majority-Muslim city in the U.S. Lots of Bangladeshis & Yemenis.

That being said, the area hasn't fared as well economically - American Axle & Manufacturing used to have a large facility there, but is mostly gone and took hundreds of blue-collar jobs when it left.

But there's lots to be positive about and I think having DCFC invest in the neighborhood will be a good thing. I know some of their fans aren't crazy about the location compared to the previous one's setting close to downtown, but it certainly seems they have enough support to make the move worth it.


----------



## master_klon

*Plans unveiled for development around United soccer stadium in St. Paul*



> While plans for the area around the stadium have been released, the design of the stadium itself will not be finished until the end of the month, McGuire said.












Snelling Midway Redevelopment Site Master Plan


----------



## gazzaa2

carnifex2005 said:


> I think MLS teams that can rival the top European teams will never happen in our lifetimes. The max salary cap for teams will probably end up being 50% of total revenue (like the other NA sports). If we think that MLS will eventually become as rich as the NHL (which is derided as a niche sport still but would be the 2nd biggest soccer league by revenue in the world), then that would mean a salary cap for each team being about $70 million US a year. That would place you in the bottom 5 of total salaries in the current EPL. C*hina has a much, much better chance of being a true equal to the top European super teams*.


China will be strong, but it's always going to have its limits to what players will go there. You can still earn a fortune playing in England, Paris, Spain or at Bayern Munich or Italy for the biggest clubs in Europe so it'll only be a section of players of the best abilities who'll leave that aside for a slightly bigger fortune in China.

At least in America there's the attraction of going to New York, LA or Florida which if the salaries are there will attract real quality. They'll just be playing alongside duds.

The real key long term is whether USA or China do better developing their own players. China doesn't produce players at all yet (don't quality for tournaments) America produce very little as well and are reliant on diaspora to pad out the national team with enough quality to get to tournaments.


----------



## The Game Is Up

BMO and MLSE Announce 10-Year Naming Rights Renewal For BMO Field

http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/0...ounce-10-year-naming-rights-renewal-bmo-field


Metro briefs: Met Council to vote on soccer stadium site lease

http://www.startribune.com/metro-briefs-met-council-to-vote-on-soccer-stadium-site-lease/369539521/


BenFred: St. Louis must remember MLS history

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/colu...cle_a5b1c525-a62e-553e-aab4-a087e991df66.html


----------



## Guest

pesto said:


> :lol: Horrible misreading of both Arsenal and the next 10 years of big money investing in sports franchises.
> 
> Try to focus on brand values and means of exploiting them not on short-term team payroll or performance. Note that the NFL Rams went from 900M to 3-4B valuation from the day they started working on the move to LA, not counting whatever non-football revenues (housing, retail, entertainment, tourist, media offices, etc.) they develop.
> 
> But I agree that this is off the MLS stadium subject.


you've shown yourself on many occasions to know nothing about soccer, so excuse me if I disregard your point about Arsenal.

As for the rest of your comment, I fail to see how it has any relevance to what was being discussed. 

My point was never that Arsenal arent valuable, or arent growing in value. It was solely about a stingy owner ruining their chance of winning the BPL, especially in light of oil money which has forced its way in to the game.

You know, the shit that matters to fans, not what its brand value is ffs. The quickest way to build a brand is to win shit, as evidenced quite spectacularly by the brand value rises of Manchester City and Paris SG.


----------



## MarkJF

5portsF4n said:


> My point was never that Arsenal arent valuable, or arent growing in value. It was solely about a stingy owner ruining their chance of winning the BPL, especially in light of oil money which has forced its way in to the game.
> 
> You know, the shit that matters to fans, not what its brand value is ffs. The quickest way to build a brand is to win shit, as evidenced quite spectacularly by the brand value rises of Manchester City and Paris SG.


Right on both counts.

Arsenal have been just a couple of affordable players away from being the best team in the PL for god knows how many years now. 

The Aston Villa CE (Tom Fox US) recently reminded their loyal fans that despite watching the worst team in living memory and one sliding out of the PL, brand brand value was growing along with merchandise sales....................the entirely predictable result? He now needs bodyguards. :lol:


----------



## GunnerJacket

I say the next person to discuss Arsenal (or other non MLS related Premiership teams) here this week gets dragged into Kangaroo Court! And I say that as a Gooner myself!


----------



## pesto

5portsF4n said:


> you've shown yourself on many occasions to know nothing about soccer, so excuse me if I disregard your point about Arsenal.
> 
> As for the rest of your comment, I fail to see how it has any relevance to what was being discussed.
> 
> My point was never that Arsenal arent valuable, or arent growing in value. It was solely about a stingy owner ruining their chance of winning the BPL, especially in light of oil money which has forced its way in to the game.
> 
> You know, the shit that matters to fans, not what its brand value is ffs. The quickest way to build a brand is to win shit, as evidenced quite spectacularly by the brand value rises of Manchester City and Paris SG.


Your team value theory is ridiculous. If you check the many terrible teams with very high values (NY Knicks, LA Lakers, Dallas Cowboys, many more).

Stick to the Arsenal fanboy sites with that crap. This is not a fan site, it's a MLS soccer stadium site that you somehow think relates to your witch hunt for why Arsenal has been mismanaged into a billion dollar franchise and your absurd solution is the glories of Middle East money.


----------



## slipperydog

http://www.reno1868fc.com/


----------



## carlosfng

pesto said:


> Your team value theory is ridiculous. If you check the many terrible teams with very high values (NY Knicks, LA Lakers, Dallas Cowboys, many more).
> 
> Stick to the Arsenal fanboy sites with that crap. This is not a fan site, it's a MLS soccer stadium site that you somehow think relates to your witch hunt for why Arsenal has been mismanaged into a billion dollar franchise and your absurd solution is the glories of Middle East money.


You mention only American teams in American sports leagues. Those teams have the benefit of being in the only important leagues in their sport, leagues which do not have promotion or relegation, leagues whose top teams do not have to compete in continental club competitions to prove their worth - in short, leagues which emphasize a more egalitarian approach amongst its cartel members. This is also due to the size of the American market itself - just put a team in a big city/region and it will make money and be supported, regardless of how many titles they win. In fact the competitions are structured to make winning titles not as hard - playoffs and divisions are structured to make each region get a shot.

Soccer, however, is a different beast. Soccer has several trophies to win in a single year; and they have special trophies for continental competitions. These trophies are also valuable because they are decades or even centuries old (just the UEFA Champions Cup being older than the NFL itself). And in recent years winning these trophies gives clubs huge cash prizes. All this only contributes for clubs not just settling on wanting to sell more merch than last year, or to get a new sponsor - they also value sporting goals, specially if they are a top club that is used to competing in them, or if said clubs have bigger amounts of fans that probably think that due to their large fanbase they should do more than just be part of the top division. The existence of lower divisions themselves is another big difference; for small clubs, it even becomes a mark of achievement to get promoted, while for big clubs it is a mark of shame (as well as a big financial hit). Soccer is not organized like the NBA for example, where the Eastern conference even while being currently crap will put a team in the finals; the leagues are instead structured to have the best team lift the trophy if they win the most games against the other teams. Regional-based tournaments are a thing of the past in most places, and exceptions only happen in huge countries (Brazil for example keeps them, and that is due to its huge size as well as its intricate network of state FAs that still have sizable influence). 

For these reasons and more, in soccer the teams with the best players win, regardless of how fashionable or not their city is, how many shirts they sold, how many twitter followers they have. Of course those things help, specially in these times when the best teams spend more and more money; but they are not the primary reasons a club is big. If they were, then Arsenal should have built a Yankees-style trophy cabinet in England, because London is bigger than the rest of the cities of Britain in market size and cultural influence, and they are the biggest brand in said city. But, guess what - the team with the most league trophies in England actually hails from the northern, unsexy, industrial paradise called Manchester. And it's ironic, because they got to that place building an unstoppable team and exploiting their brand value in the golden capitalistic 90s, and going on from there. Today many people around the world probably would never set foot in Manchester for anything other than going to Old Trafford. So, while market size matters (that is why Manchester can host two teams in the top division and London can host five), if not accompanied with glory (that is not necessarily achieved by throwing money around, btw), it will not lead to the soccer club reaching its full potential. Faith without works is dead...

(A small bit about Chinese soccer - I feel it will grow in global market size just by sheer spending, but even more so if their national team and the Asian Champions League grow along with it. And I doubt that will take a short time. Probably a couple decades).

Anyway... pretty interesting tactic of that Reno team, using the city foundation date as opposed to that of the newborn club. And that Sounders field looks tasty. The Minnesota Utd plans are to be discussed here, or on their own thread?


----------



## slipperydog

carlosfng said:


> The Minnesota Utd plans are to be discussed here, or on their own thread?


General discussion of soccer stadiums here, specific discussion about the Minnesota stadium in the dedicated thread.


----------



## likasz

I like only 3 stadiums from MLS:

Red Bull Arena

Houston stadium

and LA Galaxy's stadium

From projects of new stadiums I like Minnesota and Orlando.


----------



## Chevy114

I am not a fan of the Galaxy stadium its too boring and outdated by today's mls architecture. I like Philly (mostly because of the water and bridge views, not so much the stadium), San Jose, Portland because of the mix of old and new, KC, the final edition of Toronto, Houston, and possible the new Orlando one.


----------



## soup or man

Chevy114 said:


> I am not a fan of the Galaxy stadium its too boring and outdated by today's mls architecture. I like Philly (mostly because of the water and bridge views, not so much the stadium), San Jose, Portland because of the mix of old and new, KC, the final edition of Toronto, Houston, and possible the new Orlando one.


How is this...










...boring compared to this...










..or this...










..or this...










...or this?


----------



## Chevy114

It's a combination of not liking the curved canvas roofs and not thinking the seats are angled enough for soccer.


----------



## H.U.S.T.L.E.

Chevy114 said:


> It's a combination of not liking the curved canvas roofs and not thinking the seats are angled enough for soccer.


Interesting... I've not been to StubHub Center before, but I've only ever seen positive things said about the seating and that there isn't really a bad view in the entire stadium.


----------



## master_klon

It was a shame that LAG's stadium was only half full for this week's Champions League game. From what I heard a few years back, the stadium capacity is restricted for midweek games due to parking requirements from the adjacent university. Surely it's time the club builds a multi-level parking building. I'm sure that as LAFC's stadium nears completion, the Galaxy will make some more improvements to their stadium.


----------



## mullen

I've always liked Houston's facility, and Kansas city, of course. those two are MLS gold standard imo.


----------



## Chevy114

H.U.S.T.L.E. said:


> Interesting... I've not been to StubHub Center before, but I've only ever seen positive things said about the seating and that there isn't really a bad view in the entire stadium.


I'm sure it's nice, just not my cup of tea, that's the beauty of this forum different strokes for different folks


----------



## krudmonk

StubHub does need a steeper rake and a front row closer to the touchline. Comparing it via overhead shots is foolish because the relativd intimacy of each is lost from that perspective.


----------



## Chevy114

krudmonk said:


> StubHub does need a steeper rake and a front row closer to the touchline. Comparing it via overhead shots is foolish because the relativd intimacy of each is lost from that perspective.


That's the reason I spent 5 plus minutes at work trying to find a seat view picture of stub hub to prove the overhead angles make it look better than it is.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

Stub Hub has great sight lines though. Ive sat in 10 different sections and never had a bad view once. Sure, if it was a bit steeper, it would be great, but honestly, its excellent as is... Now the location on the other hand is horrible. So hard to get in and out and no mass transit


----------



## isaidso

carnifex2005 said:


> Yeah, I'm almost continually stunned by the success of soccer in Orlando. Never would have thought so before Austin Aztex moved there.


As am I. I assumed Florida would be a disaster for soccer in general. Great for them though.


----------



## MarkJF

weava said:


> If I was a soccer fan, I would buy a knockoff jersey without the ads on them...


Depends, some kits are considered classics *because *of the commercial logo and become highly sought after. I can tell you now that the Philly "Bimbo" shirt will go down very well with Euro fans ,


----------



## slipperydog

Still have the old team markings...

San Antonio FC ‏@SAFCUSL 57m57 minutes ago
Underway from @ToyotaField! #OurClub


----------



## JJG

slipperydog said:


> Still have the old team markings...
> 
> San Antonio FC ‏@SAFCUSL 57m57 minutes ago
> Underway from @ToyotaField! #OurClub


*sigh*

I say this as a Spurs fan... this was a HUGE mistake. (Even if it is temporary)


----------



## bd popeye

Dang!..^^....Did they copy and paste that spur? jeez..


----------



## GunnerJacket

Yeah, that piece of weak MS Paint artwork has already been lampooned to death. Pretty confident they'll give it a face lift as soon as MLS issues the invitation.


----------



## bd popeye

GunnerJacket said:


> Yeah, that piece of weak MS Paint artwork has already been lampooned to death. Pretty confident they'll give it a face lift as soon as MLS issues the invitation.


Yep....here's one of the Spurs current logos;


----------



## RMB2007

- dmca


----------



## nyrmetros

interesting......


----------



## Bigmac1212

Not a good sign when the stadium is compared to a "prison."


----------



## Benn

Bigmac1212 said:


> Not a good sign when the stadium is compared to a "prison."


I've actually seen the design of university's new fine arts building compared to a Concentration Camp with the designer in the room, so I suppose they could do worse......
Definitely not good, and probably deserved for DC United though after the bait & switch they pulled with the new design.


----------



## GunnerJacket

But you could have fun with it in the marketing and such!

"_Okay United fans, let's welcome tonight's opponents to 'The Prison Yard'_!"

_"Hey, what section are our seats located?"
"Cell block 104."_


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> But you could have fun with it in the marketing and such!
> 
> "_Okay United fans, let's welcome tonight's opponents to 'The Prison Yard'_!"
> 
> _"Hey, what section are our seats located?"
> "Cell block 104."_


"How long before we get out of the parking lot?" "Three to five years."


----------



## GunnerJacket

- "A yellow card?! But I'm innocent, I tell ya!"

- United's new kits - Black and white horizontal stripes for home, bright orange for away!

- After each goal an alarm goes off and the announcer yells "Jaaaiiiiilbreak!"



I'm telling you there's great potential, here.


----------



## isaidso

Wait a second... is San Antonio getting a team or is this just someone's logo design?


----------



## GunnerJacket

isaidso said:


> Wait a second... is San Antonio getting a team or is this just someone's logo design?


Long story short - The NBA's Spurs bought the Scorpions franchise, have renamed the team San Antonio FC (I believe) and will be playing in USL this season. They're openly courting MLS and felt the move to USL would get them on better footing with MLS.


----------



## slipperydog

GunnerJacket said:


> Long story short - The NBA's Spurs bought the Scorpions franchise, have renamed the team San Antonio FC (I believe) and will be playing in USL this season. They're openly courting MLS and felt the move to USL would get them on better footing with MLS.


Close, but not quite.

Spurs Sports and Entertainment (SSE) along with the city/county purchased the STADIUM (not the team). In other words, the Scorpions franchise still exists as an LLC and is not owned by SSE.


----------



## Bigmac1212

Benn said:


> I've actually seen the design of university's new fine arts building compared to a Concentration Camp with the designer in the room, so I suppose they could do worse......
> Definitely not good, and probably deserved for DC United though after the bait & switch they pulled with the new design.


Well, that's got to be a bruise to the ego. :nuts:


----------



## Bigmac1212

GunnerJacket said:


> But you could have fun with it in the marketing and such!
> 
> "_Okay United fans, let's welcome tonight's opponents to 'The Prison Yard'_!"
> 
> _"Hey, what section are our seats located?"
> "Cell block 104."_


Teams entrance song: "Cell Block Rock" by Elvis Presley. :cheers:


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> Close, but not quite.
> 
> Spurs Sports and Entertainment (SSE) along with the city/county purchased the STADIUM (not the team). In other words, the Scorpions franchise still exists as an LLC and is not owned by SSE.


Thanks for the correction. What an odd arrangement. How can SSE then rename the team if they only own the stadium? (He said, knowing full well he can and will Google that himself!  )

Regardless, the Spurs are now involved and will help drive San Antonio toward an MLS invitation. And we all hope the eventual logo will look a far sight better than that MS Paint job we've seen! :cheers:



Bigmac1212 said:


> Teams entrance song: "Cell Block Rock" by Elvis Presley. :cheers:


In that case one of the supporter's groups will HAVE to be named the Purple Gang, to coincide with the parade of Elvis impersonators.

And should the home side come out trailing in the second half... "_What we have here... is a failure to communicate_!"


----------



## will101

Bigmac1212 said:


> Not a good sign when the stadium is compared to a "prison."


CenturyLink Field has been nicknamed "the Clink" for a number of years now.


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> - "A yellow card?! But I'm innocent, I tell ya!"
> 
> - United's new kits - Black and white horizontal stripes for home, bright orange for away!
> 
> - After each goal an alarm goes off and the announcer yells "Jaaaiiiiilbreak!"
> 
> I'm telling you there's great potential, here.


You're on fire! Don't stop now. 

How about the referees dressed as judges; the cheerleaders carrying hacksaws; fans chanting "appeal" when you want a call reviewed. :lol:


----------



## eric the midget

Nippert Stadium, home of the Cincinnati Bearcats football team, has been transformed in preparation of FC Cincinnati's inaugural season. 










credit: @UCHarrell


----------



## will101

pesto said:


> You're on fire! Don't stop now.
> 
> How about the referees dressed as judges; the cheerleaders carrying hacksaws; fans chanting "appeal" when you want a call reviewed. :lol:


Or the fans chanting "Off with his head!" when an opposing player commits a severe foul.


----------



## bd popeye

eric the midget said:


> Nippert Stadium, home of the Cincinnati Bearcats football team, has been transformed in preparation of FC Cincinnati's inaugural season.


I do like the badge of *FC Cincinnati*












Question.. what level is the USL as compared to the MLS with the MLS being #1 in the USA? Thanks!


----------



## nicko_viteh

bd popeye said:


> Question.. what level is the USL as compared to the MLS with the MLS being #1 in the USA? Thanks!


It's currently the 3rd level of both USA and Canada soccer systems.


----------



## bd popeye

_Thanks!^^_

Link to a great video of the renovated Nippert Stadium!

*Nippert Stadium*


----------



## Lumbergo

eric the midget said:


> Nippert Stadium, home of the Cincinnati Bearcats football team, has been transformed in preparation of FC Cincinnati's inaugural season. credit: @UCHarrell


Woah - the pitch fits in there quite well - is it full size?


----------



## Chevy114

bd popeye said:


> I do like the badge of *FC Cincinnati*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Question.. what level is the USL as compared to the MLS with the MLS being #1 in the USA? Thanks!


Me too! I mean they are the queens city after all


----------



## The Game Is Up

Sacramento a possibility as MLS expansion plans continue

http://www.duncanindependent.com/sacramento-a-possibility-as-mls-expansion-plans-continue/


----------



## Chevy114

I feel bad for these cities thinking MLS is a sure thing if you build a 20K seat soccer specific stadium. Some people's feelings are going to get hurt in the next 5-10 years


----------



## pesto

Chevy114 said:


> I feel bad for these cities thinking MLS is a sure thing if you build a 20K seat soccer specific stadium. Some people's feelings are going to get hurt in the next 5-10 years


I think the long term view is to have a large number of teams that are nominally first level but with some teams not necessarily competitive every year. This will allow a larger number of small cities to survive, or even prosper if they have skilled management.

You have to cover your flanks from attack by the lower leagues, but without getting in the way of your best financed teams becoming world class.


----------



## Chevy114

Sorry I got a little lost there are you saying that you think MLS wants to do 2 levels a good and a great level who play separately or are you saying that they want to have 30 plus teams like the NFL?

I wouldn't mind seeing a Euro style where the best get promoted and the worst get demoted, but I'm sure that's a pipe dream.


----------



## Franchise646

Chevy114 said:


> Sorry I got a little lost there are you saying that you think MLS wants to do 2 levels a good and a great level who play separately or are you saying that they want to have 30 plus teams like the NFL?
> 
> I wouldn't mind seeing a Euro style where the best get promoted and the worst get demoted, but I'm sure that's a pipe dream.


I think they will go the Baseball route where Players get Promoted and Demoted between MLS and USL.


----------



## Chevy114

I would love for them to link up a little more obviously with the USL then they already do, but then my Rowdies in NASL would be screwed. I have to figure the USL and MLS will link up like the AHL and NHL, but then I wonder who jumps ship from NASL?


----------



## The Real Gazmon

Lumbergo said:


> Woah - the pitch fits in there quite well - is it full size?


Looks like it to me.


----------



## pesto

Chevy114 said:


> Sorry I got a little lost there are you saying that you think MLS wants to do 2 levels a good and a great level who play separately or are you saying that they want to have 30 plus teams like the NFL?
> 
> I wouldn't mind seeing a Euro style where the best get promoted and the worst get demoted, but I'm sure that's a pipe dream.


I doubt they would split into two really separate divisions. But I hate to guess as to the mechanism used because that's a discussion among powerful players, some of whom are just coming into the league and some who aren't there yet. 

But the goal is to protect yourself from competitors (either well funded or smaller ones) while leaving room for your power players to make as much money as they can.


----------



## aaronniuk

pesto said:


> I doubt they would split into two really separate divisions. But I hate to guess as to the mechanism used because that's a discussion among powerful players, some of whom are just coming into the league and some who aren't there yet.
> 
> But the goal is to protect yourself from competitors (either well funded or smaller ones) while leaving room for your power players to make as much money as they can.


hmmm....Promotion/Relegation, not possible with a franchise system. What owner would agree to this with the potential that their club is relegated to a lesser league with reduced income and reduced value in franchise?

Could have 2 completely separate divisions where they can only play each other in the playoff. 2 leagues of 16. Top 8 in each division progress to play offs.


----------



## Franchise646

aaronniuk said:


> hmmm....Promotion/Relegation, not possible with a franchise system. What owner would agree to this with the potential that their club is relegated to a lesser league with reduced income and reduced value in franchise?
> 
> Could have 2 completely separate divisions where they can only play each other in the playoff. 2 leagues of 16. Top 8 in each division progress to play offs.


MLS is already split into two conferences, East and West.


----------



## aaronniuk

Franchise646 said:


> MLS is already split into two conferences, East and West.


Yeah, but they play each other mid-season and not just in the playoffs.


----------



## carnifex2005

FC Cincinnati of the USL (USSF 3rd division) debuted tonight at Nippert Stadium. 14,658 came out to see the home team beat the Charlotte Independence 2-1.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Good for them! Bravo Cincy fans!


----------



## Guest

Nippert stadium is very unique looking in soccer mode.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

carnifex2005 said:


> FC Cincinnati of the USL (USSF 3rd division) debuted tonight at Nippert Stadium. 14,658 came out to see the home team beat the Charlotte Independence 2-1.


This is lovely


----------



## gazzaa2

Franchise646 said:


> As an American I can say there are a passionate and vocal few who want it, but for the most part, most think it's a BS concept and not needed.


They could have limited promotion and relegation based on the success of a club off the pitch once they've hit the maximum teams needed for expansion.

They kind of did this with Chivas. If a franchise is failing replace it with an up and coming team from one of the other leagues.

An example should be that in 5-10 years time all clubs should either have their own soccer-specific stadium, or have crowds like Seattle. NYCFC, DC United and New England should be compliant by then or be moved out until they are.


----------



## Lumbergo

10,156 in attendance for Miami FC home opener against the Tampa Bay Rowdies at FIU Stadium in Miami.

To avoid any confusion here - Miami FC is not affiliated with David Beckham nor his efforts to bring MLS to Miami. Miami FC is owned by Riccardo Silva, a sports media mogul, and Italian soccer legend Paolo Maldini, and is part of the NASL.


----------



## Lumbergo

carnifex2005 said:


> FC Cincinnati of the USL (USSF 3rd division) debuted tonight at Nippert Stadium. 14,658 came out to see the home team beat the Charlotte Independence 2-1.


Looks great! Congrats Cincinnati!


----------



## carnifex2005

Amazing Saturday in lower division soccer. San Antonio FC (USL) got 8500 for their debut and in the most interesting development, for the second week in a row, Rayo OKC (NASL) and Oklahoma City Energy (USL) both got 6k crowds out for their matches. The big thing is that they were both playing on the same day and time yesterday. I really hope they play each other in the US Open Cup.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Lumbergo said:


> 10,156 in attendance for Miami FC home opener against the Tampa Bay Rowdies at FIU Stadium in Miami.


Highly disappointing to see the Rowdies without the striped socks! That's just uncool. hno:


----------



## bd popeye

Lumbergo said:


> Looks great! Congrats Cincinnati!


I'm biased about anything about Cincinnati.^^ Simply because I grew up there. And as you all know I'm no soccer fan but I must say that LOOKS like a great atmosphere!


----------



## bd popeye

Say it ain't so!

Some over zealous fans stole FC Cincinnati winged Lion banner...hno:

FC Cincinnati banner stolen after inaugural home game





> The pro soccer team — new this year — is offering a reward for information leading to the return of the winged lion banner (scroll down for photo). Surveillance video captured the theft and the club is asking for the banner to be returned within 24 hours.
> 
> Anyone with information is asked to call UCPD at 513-556-1111.
> 
> “Obviously there was a lot of excitement following the game and there were individuals who made a bad decision in stealing the banner,” said President and General Manager, Jeff Berding.
> 
> “With that being said, we are asking that the banner be returned immediately. If it is returned within 24 hours, there will be no questions asked. However, if it is not, we will turn the matter over to UCPD and those individuals will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.”


----------



## bd popeye

_FC Cincinnati Vs Charlotte Independence. Beautiful goals by the Cincinnati side!..I'm biased...._


----------



## nyrmetros

carnifex2005 said:


> FC Cincinnati of the USL (USSF 3rd division) debuted tonight at Nippert Stadium. 14,658 came out to see the home team beat the Charlotte Independence 2-1.


That is fantastic!


----------



## GunnerJacket

Impressed to see that level of media coverage for minor league soccer! Great to see.



bd popeye said:


> I'm biased about anything about Cincinnati.^^ Simply because I grew up there. And as you all know I'm no soccer fan but I must say that LOOKS like a great atmosphere!


Cincy's about halfway between us, no? I can't think of a reason I would be in Cincinnati in the near future, but if I am I'll harass you into meeting me there for a drink and a match! :cheers:


----------



## bd popeye

GunnerJacket said:


> Impressed to see that level of media coverage for minor league soccer! Great to see.
> 
> Cincy's about halfway between us, no? I can't think of a reason I would be in Cincinnati in the near future, but if I am I'll harass you into meeting me there for a drink and a match! :cheers:


Well now.. I don't drink..not even soda/pop/coke.. but I would like to go to Nippert Stadium and check the atmosphere of FC Cincinnati.. I've not been there since the very late '60s!. 

I just hope FC Cincinnati attendance hold up to the plus 10,000 -12,000 range.


----------



## GunnerJacket

bd popeye said:


> Well now.. I don't drink..not even soda/pop/coke.. but I would like to go to Nippert Stadium and check the atmosphere of FC Cincinnati.. I've not been there since the very late '60s!.
> 
> I just hope FC Cincinnati attendance hold up to the plus 10,000 -12,000 range.


That's fine. Dasani or lemonade it is, and at that I can probably afford the snacks, as well!


----------



## Znak25

http://www.blackandredunited.com/stadium-news/2016/4/13/11407660/dc-united-buzzard-point-stadium

Looks like the shovels hit the dirt


----------



## GunnerJacket

Yes, but from what I understand it's merely site clearance. I don't think they have permission for any installations at this point, which would make sense seeing as the design remains in fine tuning. Might be able to proceed with some utility connections.


----------



## Znak25

GunnerJacket said:


> Yes, but from what I understand it's merely site clearance. I don't think they have permission for any installations at this point, which would make sense seeing as the design remains in fine tuning. Might be able to proceed with some utility connections.



Yes, but I found this http://dmped.dc.gov/sites/default/f...Remediation Presentation (Final - 012116).pdf it says they want to start construction in October of this year


----------



## Lumbergo

Orlando City
Citrus Bowl
Orlando, FL


----------



## GunnerJacket

^^I fully realize that Orlando City couldn't predict how successful they'd be and use regular crowds in the 30k range as the business model when they were considering stadium options, but it is looking more and more silly to have them building their own stadium literally a few blocks down the road when the nicely refurbished Citrus Bowl could essentially be used just as CenturyLink field in Seattle. Simply tarp off the upper decks for most matches and go with it. I'm really surprised there wasn't a stronger push for that option from the taxpayers.

But now that they're building I hope they continue to do well and someday be popular enough to warrant that discussion anew.

- - - -



Znak25 said:


> Yes, but I found this http://dmped.dc.gov/sites/default/f...Remediation Presentation (Final - 012116).pdf it says they want to start construction in October of this year


Indeed, in fact they hope to start even before then. They simply need to finish the design specs and gain proper permitting, which (hopefully) won't take but a few months. So I trust they'll be started by the fall.


----------



## Chevy114

I bet it's like the Rockies, when they played at Mile High they drew 50K or so for the first 2 years, but now that they are in Coors they are in averaging mid 30's in a stadium too big. I think OC will be happy in the long run


----------



## BlazerBlaze

As nice as the Citrus Bowl is, it has its flaws. Been to two matches there from very different seats and both times I couldn't see the near touchline and you can't see the closest corner flag from the away support section which is right above it in the 200's. Plus I despise the way crowd control is handled on the 200 levels. See all those stairs that goes from the 200 down? If you were sitting in the middle section (says Orlando City on the banner) you'd have to walk all the way to the Heineken section to get access to the concourse under the 200 section because of the location of the club lounge between the stairs and the concourse.


----------



## slipperydog

Evan Ream
‏@EvanReam

Garber says he's in advanced discussions with Detroit, St. Louis, San Diego, San Antonio, and Austin for expansion



No Sacramento?


----------



## aquamaroon

slipperydog said:


> Evan Ream
> ‏@EvanReam
> 
> Garber says he's in advanced discussions with Detroit, St. Louis, San Diego, San Antonio, and Austin for expansion
> 
> 
> 
> No Sacramento?


Of those cities, I feel like St. Louis has the best chance. The city is hurting from their rejection by the NFL and will be most willing to love an MLS team.

Re: Sacramento, I feel like they are already good to go and these discussions are for a spot alongside Sac, Miami and Minnesota.


----------



## carnifex2005

slipperydog said:


> Evan Ream
> ‏@EvanReam
> 
> Garber says he's in advanced discussions with Detroit, St. Louis, San Diego, San Antonio, and Austin for expansion
> 
> 
> 
> No Sacramento?


Garber also said MLS may include Sacramento in 2020, so I'm guessing it is all but a done deal for them.

Sacramento also showed off the concept for their supporters section as well for their new stadium yesterday...


----------



## BoulderGrad

carnifex2005 said:


> Garber also said MLS may include Sacramento in 2020, so I'm guessing it is all but a done deal for them.
> 
> Sacramento also showed off the concept for their supporters section as well for their new stadium yesterday...


Page for the full stadium: http://www.builtforsacramento.com/


----------



## GunnerJacket

BlazerBlaze said:


> As nice as the Citrus Bowl is, it has its flaws. Been to two matches there from very different seats and both times I couldn't see the near touchline and you can't see the closest corner flag from the away support section which is right above it in the 200's. Plus I despise the way crowd control is handled on the 200 levels. See all those stairs that goes from the 200 down? If you were sitting in the middle section (says Orlando City on the banner) you'd have to walk all the way to the Heineken section to get access to the concourse under the 200 section because of the location of the club lounge between the stairs and the concourse.


That does add some perspective. Only other personal review I've heard from the renovations came from upper decks and had no complaints. But it's obviously not an NFL-calibre venue, either.



slipperydog said:


> Evan Ream
> ‏@EvanReam
> 
> Garber says he's in advanced discussions with Detroit, St. Louis, San Diego, San Antonio, and Austin for expansion
> 
> 
> 
> No Sacramento?


Like everyone else I'm assuming Sac-Town is a given. I also think San Antonio is right there with them now that the Spurs are on board, and given that Austin is likely on the back burner. Of those mentioned I'd go with STL and DET as most likely to get the nod. 



carnifex2005 said:


> Sacramento also showed off the concept for their supporters section as well for their new stadium yesterday...


Okay, I'm very disturbed by this trend of MLS venues making the supporters' section just a part of one end and being trapped by various assortments of premium seating or party zones. Minnesota is proposing similar, as is DC... Not cool, I say.


----------



## slipperydog

Oh and if Sacramento thinks they're gonna get to use pyro, then everyone else better be able to use pyro too.


----------



## Chevy114

Again none of these teams have enough or in some cases any minor league experience. So personally I don't think any of them can complain that they don't get an MLS team except Sacramento and San Antonio if they have a big enough stadium. I mean 2 years or less is a joke of a resume if you ask me.


----------



## Guil

Chevy114 said:


> Again none of these teams have enough or in some cases any minor league experience. So personally I don't think any of them can complain that they don't get an MLS team except Sacramento and San Antonio if they have a big enough stadium. I mean 2 years or less is a joke of a resume if you ask me.


Austin and St.Louis have USL teams.


----------



## Chevy114

Guil said:


> Austin and St.Louis have USL teams.


St. Louis only played last year and it looks like Austin played 3 years in PDL version of USL sorry I didn't even know that existed. So put Austin on my list of cities that deserve one for having one for 4 years. What is going to happen this year with Austin though?


----------



## GunnerJacket

All of those cities have had teams in the past as part of America's patchwork history of pro soccer, with St. Louis at one time being considered the hub of US soccer. Considering how quickly Orlando came along and that several MLS teams were born in MLS I think it's disingenuous to write any city off outright. We've seen communities with strong soccer pedigree struggle due to poor ownership (Chicago, DC...) and others with seemingly little pedigree flourish under the right guidance and conditions (RSL, Orl,...). So I wouldn't use the state of any existing team as the sole barometer in this case.

Plus it's not always a given that the existing team would be moving up. Atlanta's MLS side, for instance, was born completely apart from the Silverbacks, which now exists today as an NPDSL franchise. Minnesota could've had the same experience.

As to what happens to Austin, there will always be some form of home for teams that don't make MLS. USL at least has a system for accommodating growth, and Lord knows NASL is desperate for teams.


----------



## eMKay

oops


----------



## eMKay

carnifex2005 said:


> FC Cincinnati of the USL (USSF 3rd division) debuted tonight at Nippert Stadium. 14,658 came out to see the home team beat the Charlotte Independence 2-1.


I think I like this place better than Providence Park, soccer belongs here!


----------



## Pellshekk

^^ That Cincinnati stadium must be the most prototypical US soccer stadium ever*: a bit messy & chaotic, but bundles of character, cosy, and very soccer-y. Great job.

I just hope to God the product is good enough to keep the fans entertained. Would hate to see all that enthusiasm betrayed because the football isn't good enough.


* I know it's an AF stadium BTW, but still.


----------



## bd popeye

> That Cincinnati stadium must be the most prototypical US soccer stadium ever*: a bit messy & chaotic, but bundles of character, cosy, and very soccer-y. Great job.
> 
> I just hope to God the product is good enough to keep the fans entertained. Would hate to see all that enthusiasm betrayed because the football isn't good enough.
> 
> ** I know it's an AF stadium BTW, but still.*


In case some of you other fellows did not know, I think most do, Nippert Stadium is a American college football stadium. Built on the Campus of the University of Cincinnati in 1924. It has under gone several renovations in the last 92 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nippert_Stadium



> Nippert Stadium in Cincinnati, Ohio, is the University of Cincinnati's football stadium, home to their Bearcats football team in rudimentary form since 1901, and as a complete stadium since 1924, making it the fourth-oldest playing site and fifth-oldest stadium in college football, respectively.


----------



## eMKay

bd popeye said:


> In case some of you other fellows did not know, I think most do, Nippert Stadium is a American college football stadium. Built on the Campus of the University of Cincinnati in 1924. It has under gone several renovations in the last 92 years.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nippert_Stadium


I know, I've always been a fan of it. But in soccer mode it stands out.


----------



## carnifex2005

20,497 (New USL regular season record) came out tonight to see FC Cincinnati lose to Louisville City 3-2. There was a very good contingent of Louisville fans there too (a little over 1000 made the trip).


----------



## Guest

That attendance is probably a good reflection of how much the media played a role following the first game. Clearly buzz was created. The only question is, can it be maintained? 

I doubt it, but it is hit and miss with this stuff. You really cant tell, as other markets have shown. 

How many people there realize theyre watching 3rd division soccer? Who knows.

Still, great work.


----------



## weava

SJAnfield said:


> That's a strange configuration. I'd have thought they would place the field along the first baseline.


they would have to remove the mound if they did that.


----------



## bd popeye

weava said:


> they would have to remove the mound if they did that.


Pitching mound in the way?...No problem....please read..



bd popeye said:


> Back in the day of multi-purpose stadiums most stadiums had portable mounds. Including Dodger Stadium.
> 
> They still exist..
> 
> Portable pitching mounds


----------



## Scba

Why aren't they playing at the soccer stadium next door?


----------



## The Game Is Up

Talking Points: Which cities will Major League Soccer expand to next?

http://www.espnfc.us/major-league-s...ities-will-major-league-soccer-expand-to-next


----------



## bd popeye

Scba said:


> Why aren't they playing at the soccer stadium next door?


You mean Ford Field? *Ford Field* is the home of the Detroit Lions NFL football Team and other events..

Ford Field has hosted USWNT games.

* USWNT match a big win for fans at Ford Field*


----------



## pesto

The Game Is Up said:


> Talking Points: Which cities will Major League Soccer expand to next?
> 
> http://www.espnfc.us/major-league-s...ities-will-major-league-soccer-expand-to-next


At what point of expansion does "Major League Soccer" become "Watered-down Mid-sized City Entertainment Enterprises"?

Or is this just the first step in an eventual split into MLS Div I and Div II?

No haters, please; just something to think about. The implication of "major league" is that there are multiple levels of teams below.


----------



## MilkChocholate

DIV I and II would be something unique since it does not exist in other sports in North America (Canada/USA). But a team relegated to DIV II could lose a lot of money/coverage /sponsors etc so that is the reason why this system is swept under the rug all the time.


----------



## ielag

pesto said:


> At what point of expansion does "Major League Soccer" become "Watered-down Mid-sized City Entertainment Enterprises"?


It's a truly global talent pool to draw from. The quality of the league has increased with expansion because the newer clubs are willing to invest in players and scouting.


----------



## GunnerJacket

pesto said:


> At what point of expansion does "Major League Soccer" become "Watered-down Mid-sized City Entertainment Enterprises"?


a) When the TV money simply becomes a net reduction per team. 

b) The good thing for MLS is that right now it's already pretty meager, talent-wise, so it's not as if the expansion will make play noticeably worse. Not to most fans, anyway. 



> Or is this just the first step in an eventual split into MLS Div I and Div II?


Doubtful. After this round we'll see more candidates who start in USL and gauge their prospects that way before jumping up. Meaning new additions after this round will likely be more carefully constructed, and probably not any sooner than 2030.


----------



## pesto

Can’t say I disagree with anyone, but a couple of more thoughts since it’s Sunday and kind of slow.

There is a worldwide pool but it is being skimmed by the true major leagues in Europe and the emerging major league in China. With current salaries MLS will draw from the bottom of the pool.

To become major, MLS needs players, which means they need money. There are not going to be 25-30 US teams that have serious money for a long time. The idea is NOT to hope MLS only becomes a little worse by adding more low paying teams; the idea is to encourage at least some teams to pay world class salaries.

Clearly relegation is a problem but is better than everyone being PERMANENTLY in DIV II. Of course the financial effects would have to be agreed to by the membership prior to entering the league. It won’t be easy, but it allows teams who don't have a billion to still move up and compete with the world powers if they have game. 

Maybe as a start, "boys, the good news is we've all paid our dues and we're all going to be proud MLS members for as long as we want. But for those who are interested in putting in another 1B and guaranteeing their payroll will stay over xxx per year, we will have a new division which will play extra matches against each other and a select group of non-US teams. My Russian, Arab and Chinese friends here, along with my tech, finance and entertainment friends say they are in; who else wants in?"


----------



## Guest

Can always rely on pesto to talk absolute shit about something he knows nothing about. 

MLS has been growing slowly, but surely, without any of these major players you're talking about. 

You want the answer to becoming one of the biggest leagues in the world? Time. There is a very systematic process in place, and it is clearly working. 

People advocating that MLS teams need to spend billions on talent are the same ones who said 'I told you it wouldn't last' when NASL died, and are the same ones who said MLS wouldn't survive because it wasn't 'going big' from the get go. In other words, clueless assholes.


----------



## rantanamo

pesto said:


> Can’t say I disagree with anyone, but a couple of more thoughts since it’s Sunday and kind of slow.
> 
> There is a worldwide pool but it is being skimmed by the true major leagues in Europe and the emerging major league in China. With current salaries MLS will draw from the bottom of the pool.
> 
> To become major, MLS needs players, which means they need money. There are not going to be 25-30 US teams that have serious money for a long time. The idea is NOT to hope MLS only becomes a little worse by adding more low paying teams; the idea is to encourage at least some teams to pay world class salaries.
> 
> Clearly relegation is a problem but is better than everyone being PERMANENTLY in DIV II. Of course the financial effects would have to be agreed to by the membership prior to entering the league. It won’t be easy, but it allows teams who don't have a billion to still move up and compete with the world powers if they have game.
> 
> Maybe as a start, "boys, the good news is we've all paid our dues and we're all going to be proud MLS members for as long as we want. But for those who are interested in putting in another 1B and guaranteeing their payroll will stay over xxx per year, we will have a new division which will play extra matches against each other and a select group of non-US teams. My Russian, Arab and Chinese friends here, along with my tech, finance and entertainment friends say they are in; who else wants in?"


Do you think the Chinese Super League will raise the foreign player restriction?


----------



## GunnerJacket

Starting to stray off topic, so let's keep it peaceful, folks.


----------



## Lumbergo

I still think the USA / Canada can support a healthy second division even without relegation / promotion. There are several teams in the NASL and USL that know they have a snowballs chance in hell getting into the MLS and yet people still go out to games and support them en masse. That said, I think the NASL and USL will have to merge at some point. 

As for MLS spending more on talent - why? They've done quite well not doing just that. I would much rather have more homegrown talent and player development than superstar of the year from Europe playing for a ridiculous sum of money, even if the field play isn't as good as the euro teams. The reason MLS is such a hot ticket now is because the growth has been slow and organic and MLS is just now seeing the fruits Of their labor. Let's not forget that it was a struggle for quite a while early on. (Contraction, anyone?) 

Anyhow, let's get back on topic shall we?


----------



## pesto

5portsF4n said:


> Can always rely on pesto to talk absolute shit about something he knows nothing about.
> 
> MLS has been growing slowly, but surely, without any of these major players you're talking about.
> 
> You want the answer to becoming one of the biggest leagues in the world? Time. There is a very systematic process in place, and it is clearly working.
> 
> People advocating that MLS teams need to spend billions on talent are the same ones who said 'I told you it wouldn't last' when NASL died, and are the same ones who said MLS wouldn't survive because it wasn't 'going big' from the get go. In other words, clueless assholes.


I appreciate the support. But, really, I'm just pluggin' along doing my best. :lol:

So you think the funders of the best NY, LA, Beijing, Shanghai, etc., sides want to be roughly the quality of, say, the Bulgarian or Serbian top leagues for the next 20 years?

Time is an inescapable condition of all human action; but the key is the action itself: what is the plan's goal and how well is it executed. We KNOW that various interests in Asia, Europe, etc., are going to put many billions into building teams. We can either join them or stay what we are.


----------



## pesto

rantanamo said:


> Do you think the Chinese Super League will raise the foreign player restriction?


I think that money doesn't talk; it screams. They can impose rules, but then some major portion of the money will divert elsewhere.


----------



## pesto

Really, why hate on anything I've said: there is a substantial possibility that some investors will note that 95 percent of the people in the world don't live in the US, most of them have a strong interest in soccer; and many US cities have valuable brands outside of the US. 

Based on this and the structure of leagues in most larger countries, there is likely to evolve an elite group of teams that are well funded and hope to compete with the best in the world to capture viewers eyes.

This is an exciting time for US soccer and it will be fun to see how it plays out.


----------



## MarkJF

:lol:


pesto said:


> Really, why hate on anything I've said: there is a substantial possibility that some investors will note that 95 percent of the people in the world don't live in the US, most of them have a strong interest in soccer; and many US cities have valuable brands outside of the US.
> 
> Based on this and the structure of leagues in most larger countries, there is likely to evolve an elite group of teams that are well funded and hope to compete with the best in the world to capture viewers eyes.
> 
> This is an exciting time for US soccer and it will be fun to see how it plays out.


With respect, a common theme in your posts about soccer is your inability to see beyond money as the be all and end all. This leaves you unable to empathize with your average soccer fan. There are many,many examples of fans being against the possible influx of money into their clubs, you will find that hard to understand. Money? It's not even about winning.

The MLS has nothing to fear from the Chinese League and is doing the right thing via sustainable and incremental progress and by this, the competition slowly acquires respect and the acceptance that is it a "proper" league. This morning I opened the BBC football pages as usual, the 4th story (front page) was report on the Galaxy/Portland game, that's normal to me now, but incredible when you think back a few years. 

For all the money the CSL is splashing out on second tier "stars", do you think it's accepted as a "proper" league, is it hell, they could sign up Ronaldo and Messi tomorrow and it's profile might rise 1% in Europe, tbh I don't think I'll ever see a CSL game report on the BBC.



pesto said:


> I think that money doesn't talk; it screams.


Leicester City are the 2015/16 PL Champions after spending less in their entire 132 year history than Manchester United have in the past 2 seasons.


----------



## will101

MarkJF said:


> Leicester City are the 2015/16 PL Champions after spending less in their entire 132 year history than Manchester United have in the past 2 seasons.


And how long is that going to remain true?


----------



## GunnerJacket

EPL talk goes here.


----------



## MarkJF

globeman said:


> BC Place in Vancouver during the FIFA Women's World Cup Final
> 
> FIFA Women's World Cup 2015 Final , Vancouver, BC by globetrekimages, on Flickr


Great pic, so similar to Warsaw.


----------



## tinyslam

Wow the distance to the pitch is dramatically different between Warsaw and BC place. is there a track under there?


----------



## MarkJF

tinyslam said:


> Wow the distance to the pitch is dramatically different between Warsaw and BC place. is there a track under there?


Sorry, that was an architects pic, here you go on a match day.

Warsaw









BC


----------



## Lumbergo

GunnerJacket said:


> EPL talk goes here.


I share your enthusiasm for order but his point was not entirely irrelevant. Just goes to show that money isn't everything when it comes to fielding a winning team.


----------



## boyerling3

Here's a stream of FCD's Toyota Stadium U.S. Soccer Hall of Fame. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHg2BEP9eUQ


----------



## rantanamo

MarkJF said:


> Sorry, that was an architects pic, here you go on a match day.
> 
> Warsaw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BC


BC Place is the home of the CFL's BC Lions


----------



## MarkJF

Lumbergo said:


> I share your enthusiasm for order but his point was not entirely irrelevant. Just goes to show that money isn't everything when it comes to fielding a winning team.


Or a winning league, the MLS is winning, the short cut Chinese Super League is not, no matter how many millions they want to pay a Chelsea reserve player.


----------



## MarkJF

rantanamo said:


> BC Place is the home of the CFL's BC Lions


Is the roof a permanent structure?


----------



## pesto

MarkJF said:


> Or a winning league, the MLS is winning, the short cut Chinese Super League is not, no matter how many millions they want to pay a Chelsea reserve player.


Not disagreeing with you, but how do you define winning? I would say that increasing name recognition and press coverage worldwide are the best indicia at this stage. 

Of course in the end net profitability and team value are the basic indicia of success; but that's not as relevant when the business is developing so rapidly.


----------



## MarkJF

pesto said:


> Not disagreeing with you, but how do you define winning? I would say that increasing name recognition and press coverage worldwide are the best indicia at this stage.


Fine, it has to be "believable", a stable honest competition that promises longevity, the MLS promises that. 

The Chinese Super League is doing it all wrong, I've read more in the press about Joe Cole (England level 3 now) possibly going to the MLS than I ever did about Lavezzi (PSG) or Ramirez (Chelsea) going to China, in which the only story of interest to us (Euro fans) was the astronomical wages, when they should still be playing at the top level, they are now forgotten, nobody would be able to tell you who they play for in the CSL or whereabouts those clubs might be located.


----------



## Cjones2451

MarkJF said:


> Is the roof a permanent structure?


Yes it is a permanent structure with a retractable center

the whole stadium went through a retrofit in 2010-2011


----------



## pesto

MarkJF said:


> Fine, it has to be "believable", a stable honest competition that promises longevity, the MLS promises that.
> 
> The Chinese Super League is doing it all wrong, I've read more in the press about Joe Cole (England level 3 now) possibly going to the MLS than I ever did about Lavezzi (PSG) or Ramirez (Chelsea) going to China, in which the only story of interest to us (Euro fans) was the astronomical wages, when they should still be playing at the top level, they are now forgotten, nobody would be able to tell you who they play for in the CSL or whereabouts those clubs might be located.


For sure lack of corruption and special dealing will encourage the inflow of money for the long run. Stability seems less important, as in many leagues teams go up or down, change ownership and management, etc.

Right now I think China doesn't much care about attracting European fans; the key is protecting the home ground from the expansion of the European leagues. Each of China and the US will have maybe 1/4 of the world's disposable income in its greater territory and defending that assures huge success. 

The next level is attracting outside your home base, which means mostly going after Europe and former colonies. It strikes me that this will be easier for MLS because of shared language and culture. China may stay focused on their internal market while MLS and Europe compete for the rest of the world. 

Looking far enough ahead, there will presumably be a "grand alliance" to make sure all sides can suck as much money out of fans as possible. No use competing on price when you can form oligopolies worldwide and make sure competition stays within the family.


----------



## master_klon

MarkJF said:


> ...I've read more in the press about Joe Cole (England level 3 now) possibly going to the MLS than I ever did about Lavezzi (PSG) or Ramirez (Chelsea) going to China...


FYI, Joe Cole will be be going to an NASL club (second tier in the US pyramid).


----------



## MarkJF

master_klon said:


> FYI, Joe Cole will be be going to an NASL club (second tier in the US pyramid).


My apologies, yes, I noted that and was surprised. Still, there you go, a transfer from third tier England to 2nd tier US gets more media coverage than any gazillion transfer to the Chinese Super League.


----------



## GunnerJacket

MarkJF said:


> My apologies, yes, I noted that and was surprised. Still, there you go, a transfer from third tier England to 2nd tier US gets more media coverage than any gazillion transfer to the Chinese Super League.


Joe Cole's transfer registered on the news wire?! 




As for the CSL, wake me when They have 20+ teams, a stable minor league and regular TV exposure in Europe or the Americas.


----------



## Guest

First off, congrats LAFC on a great stadium (providing it ends up like that). And to TFC, yours turned out quite nicely too. 

Regarding CSL:

- Why is 20, or 20+, a goal? The actual number of teams in any given league is irrelevant. In many ways, 16 is perfect. It allows for a tight regular season, while not spreading talent over too many teams + keeping broadcast revenues in fewer hands. If anything, all the major Euro leagues should have 16 or 18 teams. Even the NBA shouldn't have any more than 24. 

- China has lower divisions, with the chance for teams to work their way up the divisions. Some would paraphrase your sentence by saying 'wake me up when US soccer has pro/rel'. From what I understand, Chinese lower divisions are no worse than USL/NASL. 

- International TV exposure seems pretty irrelevant too. And let's not pretend MLS has anything to crow about in that respect either. These days, pretty much everything and anything can get international exposure. You need people to actually want to watch what is being 'exposed', if you will. Right now, MLS is really no better off than China in that respect.


----------



## nyrmetros

Bmo Field looks fantastic. The national anthem was legit.


----------



## bd popeye

MLS attendance so far for 2016.


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> Regarding CSL:
> 
> - Why is 20, or 20+, a goal? The actual number of teams in any given league is irrelevant. In many ways, 16 is perfect. It allows for a tight regular season, while not spreading talent over too many teams + keeping broadcast revenues in fewer hands. If anything, all the major Euro leagues should have 16 or 18 teams. Even the NBA shouldn't have any more than 24.


Part of this is a matter of relative markets. Right now the CSL is, IMO, a handful of decent clubs for a nation of 1B+. Their top division had teams that were struggling financially until the new TV money kicked in. Which is to say that despite the comparable financial and population advantages it's not hard to infer that MLS is the more successful league. 

I don't really care if the CSL grows or stays at 16, I simply think it's still more of a novelty oriented around a few clubs because of how the league is ordered and run. Especially for a nation of that size.



> - China has lower divisions, with the chance for teams to work their way up the divisions. Some would paraphrase your sentence by saying 'wake me up when US soccer has pro/rel'. From what I understand, Chinese lower divisions are no worse than USL/NASL.


They're also no better and with an equal amount of trouble keeping teams in business. Meaning they haven't solved any of the problems facing them or the US, so I'm not going to heap any praise their way. I'm not dismissing them, but I'm not going to give them more credit than due, either. 



> - International TV exposure seems pretty irrelevant too. And let's not pretend MLS has anything to crow about in that respect either. These days, pretty much everything and anything can get international exposure. You need people to actually want to watch what is being 'exposed', if you will. Right now, MLS is really no better off than China in that respect.


MLS games are at least broadcast in about 2 dozen nations, including regular telecasts in the UK and Europe, Mexico, Brazil. Last I checked CSL games aren't shown as other than highlight reels outside their homeland. Again, I'm not putting them down, I'm merely saying they're not even a rung higher than MLS on the global soccer ladder. 

The CSL has more money at the moment, courtesy of State support. That's the only difference in their favor at this point, so I'm not spending any of my time fretting over the impact of that league. That's all.


----------



## bd popeye

off topic



GunnerJacket said:


> The CSL has more money at the moment, courtesy of State support. That's the only difference in their favor at this point, so I'm not spending any of my time fretting over the impact of that league. That's all.


President Xi of China wants China to become a "Football/Soccer" Nation.

*China Announces Plan To Become Soccer Powerhouse, Host World Cup As Part Of Xi Jinping’s 'Chinese Dream'*

President Xi of China has decreed all children in China play football/soccer.

*China's President Xi decrees ALL children must play soccer.....|......Daily Mail*

..and from 2015 here at SSC..

*China kicks off bid to become global footballing power*

..end off topic...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Of the teams that need a SSS perhaps NE and DC will benefit the most. Of course the Revs have been "looking"(sic..allegedly) for a SSS site for quite some time.


----------



## carnifex2005

BlazerBlaze said:


> So with all of these stadiums, there's talk of the USA doing a joint bid for the 2026 World Cup with Mexico or Canada. I don't get the logic, sure it would be nice and inclusive and all the SJW stuff to include our neighbors, but why when we could do it ourselves?


To not split the vote if Mexico, US and Canada all have separate bids. That would just be asking for Australia or some other country to come in and get it.


----------



## Nacre

pesto said:


> In many cities, local ticket and broadcast revenues are not sufficient to make teams profitable. If, in addition, media revenues were shared according to actual demand to watch the individual teams, many franchises would have even less revenue; many would never appear on national broadcasts and would fold. Conversely, some teams have very well developed brands and are therefore large generators of revenue from broadcasting, with large potential even in non-US markets.


I never said that teams should be totally dependent on local revenue. Of course national TV money will boost revenue, and thus support more expenses.

But neither can teams exist totally on national TV revenue. Especially a young league earning a pittance from its national TV deal. If the $15m/yr figure I've seen for the national TV deals is true, then only about 2-3% of MLS' total revenue comes from its national TV contracts.

For an MLS team to build a national (or global) brand image like the Green Bay Packers it needs to first build history. And that requires it to have local fans, rivalries, etc.

In baseball, MLB expanded to the west coast only in the 1950's. Before that there was another league (the Pacific Coast League) operating in Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Diego, Seattle, etc. MLB moved to California not only because LA and SF were big market, but also so it could get fans to watch their own league instead of the PCL.

Having a team in Montreal helps win MLS fans in Quebec as a whole, which leads to more people there watching MLS games on TV. It also helps Toronto by giving them a local rival.


----------



## eric the midget

23,375 in attendance today as FC Cincinnati defeated the Pittsburgh Riverhounds 1-0. Currently averaging more than 7 MLS teams at 17,462.










courtesy @keetont34


----------



## bd popeye

Impressive..most impressive!^^ 

I hope the enthusiasm holds out after the newness wears off. We shall see.



_MLS by 2020?? could happen..._


----------



## bd popeye

My fat butt wants to be there..and I'm no soccer fan..It just looks great.


----------



## nyrmetros

eric the midget said:


> 23,375 in attendance today as FC Cincinnati defeated the Pittsburgh Riverhounds 1-0. Currently averaging more than 7 MLS teams at 17,462.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> courtesy @keetont34


That's incredible.


----------



## bd popeye

*Record FC Cincinnati crowd nearly bests all of MLS*



> Futbol Club Cincinnati nearly overshadowed all of Major League Soccer attendance-wise with its latest box-office feat this weekend.
> 
> Playing just the fourth home game of its inaugural United Soccer League season, FC Cincinnati saw a league-record 23,375 attend its 1-0 victory against Pittsburgh Riverhounds at the University of Cincinnati's Nippert Stadium. In the process, FC Cincinnati broke its own single-game USL attendance record of 20,497, which it set April 16 when it hosted Louisville City FC.
> 
> Of the nine MLS games that took place this weekend, only one team — Toronto FC — had a better turnout. Toronto had 24,748 attend its Saturday game against Vancouver Whitecaps FC at newly-renovated BMO Field.
> 
> Here's how FC Cincinnati stacked up against the MLS games that took place this weekend:
> 
> 1. 24,748 - Toronto FC v. Vancouver Whitecaps (BMO Field in Toronto, Ontario).
> 
> 2. 23,375 - FC Cincinnati v. Pittsburgh Riverhounds (Nippert Stadium in Cincinnati).
> 
> 3. 20,801 - Montreal Impact v. Philadelphia Union (Saputo Stadium in Montreal, Quebec).
> 
> 4.19,632 - D.C. United v. New York Red Bulls (RFK Stadium in Washington, D.C.).
> 
> 5. 19,080 - Sporting Kansas City v. Orlando City SC (Children's Mercy Park in Kansas City, Kansas).
> 
> 6. 18,997 - New England Revolution v. Chicago Fire (Gillette Stadium in Foxborough, Massachusetts).
> 
> 7. 17,943 - Houston Dynamo v. Real Salt Lake (BBVA Compass Stadium in Houston, Texas).
> 
> 8. 15,023 - Columbus Crew SC v. Colorado Rapids (Mapfre Stadium in Columbus).
> 
> 9. 14,630 - FC Dallas v. Seattle Sounders FC (Toyota Stadium in Frisco, Texas).
> 
> *The Portland Timbers versus New York City FC attendance wasn't announced when this story was posted, but Providence Park in Portland, Oregon has a listed capacity of about 22,000.
> 
> _For context, four of the top five MLS teams in terms of average home attendance played on the road this weekend, or didn't play at all. Those four teams — Seattle Sounders, Orlando City, NYCFC and Los Angeles Galaxy (didn't play) — all average larger home crowds than FC Cincinnati's crowd of 23,375, according to Soccer Stadium Digest. Toronto is only team in the top five to host a game this weekend._


_Still...impressive..most impressive!_


----------



## bd popeye

*F-CC..F-CC...F-CC!!!*


----------



## Chevy114

It's almost like there is nothing else to do in Cinn. since they don't have a pro basketball team or a pro hockey team. Also with a decent baseball team at best, I don't think anyone is going to compete with soccer. So again I ask why MLS won't go after these kinds of teams that don't have any real major sports competition and can fill the seats?


----------



## bd popeye

Chevy114 said:


> It's almost like there is nothing else to do in Cinn. since they don't have a pro basketball team or a pro hockey team.


FC Cincinnati is the hot ticket right now in Cincinnati. We will see what happens after the newness shine wears off.

On a side note the Cincinnati Reds are averaging 21,370 after 22 home games. 

They have minor league hockey, Cincinnati Reds, UC Bearcats and there's plenty of other things to do in Cincinnati. Plenty.

*Cincinnati USA*


----------



## Chevy114

bd popeye said:


> FC Cincinnati is the hot ticket right now in Cincinnati. We will see what happens after the newness shine wears off.
> 
> On a side note the Cincinnati Reds are averaging 21,370 after 22 home games.
> 
> They have minor league hockey, Cincinnati Reds, UC Bearcats and there's plenty of other things to do in Cincinnati. Plenty.
> 
> *Cincinnati USA*


College sports for the most part are done for the year. Minor league hockey is close to if not done already. They have the whole summer for just them and the reds. I can't imagine them falling too far from these kind of numbers.

Side note: If MLS is taking teams that have played 2 years of 4th tier soccer then who knows what they want anyways.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Chevy114 said:


> Side note: If MLS is taking teams that have played 2 years of 4th tier soccer then who knows what they want anyways.


Teams that will rate with TV broadcasters.


----------



## Chevy114

GunnerJacket said:


> Teams that will rate with TV broadcasters.


Portland and Seattle do pretty well with the ratings so I never know what will work anymore


----------



## GunnerJacket

I have no idea if FC Cincy would move the needle in that regard, either. All I know is MLS' priorities are improving TV value, improving TV value, and improving TV value.


----------



## bd popeye

The Cincinnati Reds are having a tough season overall..they are dead last and smokin'. FC Cincinnati could pick up a few sports hungry Reds rooters along the way.

Dang.. a few years ago I could care less about futbol/soccer/association foolball/fooball.other than stadiums..what has happened to me?!!:nuts:


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> I have no idea if FC Cincy would move the needle in that regard, either. All I know is MLS' priorities are improving TV value, improving TV value, and improving TV value.


Yes. You feed the PR money to the teams committed to world class status over time. But you also retain a 2nd tier that may have the skill sets to develop a brand and move onto the national stage. You attract both the big money and the talented with limited resources.


----------



## GunnerJacket

bd popeye said:


> The Cincinnati Reds are having a tough season overall..they are dead last and smokin'. FC Cincinnati could pick up a few sports hungry Reds rooters along the way.
> 
> Dang.. a few years ago I could care less about futbol/soccer/association foolball/fooball.other than stadiums..what has happened to me?!!:nuts:


You're growing wiser as you grow older!


----------



## bd popeye

*FC Cincinnati earning MLS attention thanks to record USL crowds*



> Is Cincinnati poised to get a leg up in the ever-growing list of future MLS expansion cities?
> 
> In an email to The Cincinnati Enquirer, MLS Executive Vice President of Communications Dan Courtemanche wrote that the league is “impressed” with the “bold statement” FC Cincinnati made with “incredible crowds to kick off the season.”
> 
> FC Cincinnati, a first-year USL club coached by John Harkes, is averaging about 15,500 fans over their first three home games, with the team aiming for 25,000 fans for next Saturday’s game against the Pittsburgh Riverhounds. That would break the USL attendance record the club set two weeks ago when 20,497 fans packed Nippert Stadium on the University of Cincinnati campus for their game against Louisville City.
> 
> A large, rabid fan base is certainly a key expansion ingredient. But Cincy still faces a tough road in contending with other cities jockeying for a spot in the league, including likely frontrunners Sacramento, St. Louis and Detroit.
> 
> MLS commissioner Don Garber has said that the league, after growing from 20 to 24 teams with the additions of Atlanta, Minnesota, LAFC and, very likely, Miami, will then look to expand to 28 teams starting in 2020.


_I think I've got futbol fever!_


----------



## bd popeye

_Another FC Cincinnati article I found on the MLS web site. Rather lengthy but a good read with a little of the history of Cincinnati soccer._

*Another Orlando? Inside the "off-the-charts exciting" rise of FC Cincinnati*

_I say dump Miami for 2020 MLS expansion in favor of FC Cincinnati._


----------



## bd popeye

_This is a good reason not to have relegation in US soccer._












> Relegation is a pretty brutal thing to have to go through for any soccer fan, but safe to say this is a pretty large overreaction.
> 
> Turkish Super League team Eskisehirspor lost on the final day of the 2015/16 season and was relegated from the country’s top league as a result. Fans were quite frustrated about it, so they decided to take out their anger by lighting the stadium on fire.


----------



## Guest

No, that's just the Turkey for you. Their crowds are some of the youngest I've ever seen in my time watching soccer. You get a lot of males 15-30 in one place, and you've got a recipe for trouble. 

It is no surprise that England, which has more or less gotten over its hooligan problem, saw its worst times when the old men you see in stadiums nowadays were 20-30 years old.


----------



## Guest

Cincinnati has a lot going against it, let's be honest. 

With Minneapolis, St Louis, and the likelihood that MLS will push to get something done in Detroit given the chance, it will be hard for MLS to justify another midwestern team, especially one in a state each of the 3 C's are more or less equal to eachother, and in one where the potential TV audience is smaller in comparison to competitors. 

I mean, hell, Salt Lake has a bigger TV market than Cincinnati. That's not good for anyone hoping to snag an MLS team. And Columbus is a larger TV market than Cin as well. 

For any hope, you'd have to think that St Louis or Detroit would have to fall by the wayside.

Could be proven wrong of course, but I see no chance of Cincinnati ever touching MLS. 

I'm sure MLS likes the fact that they can tell the markets they see as real candidates that they have something right behind their backs.....but, other than a bargaining tool, hard to see this going anywhere.


----------



## Chevy114

bd popeye said:


> _Another FC Cincinnati article I found on the MLS web site. Rather lengthy but a good read with a little of the history of Cincinnati soccer._
> 
> *Another Orlando? Inside the "off-the-charts exciting" rise of FC Cincinnati*
> 
> _I say dump Miami for 2020 MLS expansion in favor of FC Cincinnati._


If MLS would listen to me they would have some success instead of mediocrity lol


----------



## aaronniuk

Cosmos' Stover talks about Belmont Stadium bid #NYCosmos #NASL

https://youtu.be/ni6pYcnlo2Y


----------



## The Game Is Up

Bringing Major League Soccer to OKC: ‘The stars are beginning to align’
http://newsok.com/article/5498458


----------



## Guest

The Game Is Up said:


> Bringing Major League Soccer to OKC: ‘The stars are beginning to align’
> http://newsok.com/article/5498458


Hmm, good luck to them, smaller chance than Cincy


----------



## BoulderGrad

5portsF4n said:


> Hmm, good luck to them, smaller chance than Cincy


North American TV markets by size that don't have a team yet (that are bigger than OKC):

#12: Detroit
#13: Phoenix
#14: Tampa
#21: Cleveland
#22: Sacramento
#24: Saint Louis
#26: Pittsburgh
#27: Raleigh
#28: Charlotte
#29: Indianapolis
#30: Baltimore
#31: San Diego
#32: Nashville
#33: Hartford
#37: Milwaukee
#38: Cincinnati
#39: San Antonio
#40: Greenville
#41: West Palm Beach
#42: Grand Rapids
#43: Austin
#44: OKC

Lots of names ahead of OKC that already have ownership groups working on an expansion MLS Franchise. 30-32 teams seems to be a good cap for North American leagues. Any more and you start to dilute the value of a franchise and make scheduling difficult for national exposure of your product (two things owners hate).


----------



## will101

Chevy114 said:


> If MLS would listen to me they would have some success instead of mediocrity lol


MLS officials often remind me of movie studio moguls. They would much rather make _Dumb and Dumber 6_ than something like _The King's Speech_, because TKS was in unfamiliar territory, which frightened them. Even though the Miami area was a failure before, it's familiar to them. Plus it's a pin in an otherwise empty area of the map, whereas Cincinnati is near several other pins.


----------



## pesto

will101 said:


> MLS officials often remind me of movie studio moguls. They would much rather make _Dumb and Dumber 6_ than something like _The King's Speech_, because TKS was in unfamiliar territory, which frightened them. Even though the Miami area was a failure before, it's familiar to them. Plus it's a pin in an otherwise empty area of the map, whereas Cincinnati is near several other pins.


I don't thinks so. Both types of movie are VERY FAMILIAR territory; hundreds of people study the demographics and prospects and in some cases charge high fees for their analyses.

Same for locations for soccer sides. Of course, if you chose to disregard the stats that's your option, and sometimes you're right. But not often enough to change the way people do business.


----------



## Chevy114

I know what you mean, it's like a year or two ago when a girl who used to work with sony complained that Sony could never make a hunger games type of movie because they had signed such a large movie deal with Adam Sandler back when he made good movies and that's why they made Jack and Jill while Hunger Games was a game changer. 

MLS is so set on just going through the motions instead of going after new markets and giving them a shot. Trust me people all over America watch sports, not just big cities!


----------



## GunnerJacket

If you're going with that analogy then the MLS movie industry is simply being dynamic. They've made art house flics (Portland, Montreal...) that were successful in their own way, but in order to keep the studio going they also need to make money from a few more blockbusters, which tend to be big risk/big reward. In this instance, since from MLS' standpoint the costs for each (1 expansion slot) are about the same, they were bound to take a chance on something that might be cheesy but potentially very popular (Miami). 

Portland is a great franchise with strong local support and great stadium atmosphere, but a league full of Portlands won't bring the TV money for MLS much closer to the NHL.


----------



## Chevy114

The issue to me is other cities could be just as dynamic too, they just won't give them a shot. It's like they said ok we did our charitable work by going to less than desirable cities and giving them a pro soccer, that should be enough. Why do they have to give big cities a 4th or in some cases an 8th pro team instead of a smaller town a 1st or 2nd pro team? Portland blows some of these cities away with fan support and tv viewership.


----------



## bd popeye

*Indy Eleven NPSL Bows Out of U.S. Open Cup with 1-2 Defeat at FC Cincinnati*http://www.indyeleven.com/news/2016/05/18/recap---fc-cincinnati-2--1-eleven-npsl



> CINCINNATI (Wednesday, May 18, 2016) – Indy Eleven NPSL went toe-to-toe with USL side FC Cincinnati in tonight’s Second Round Lamar Hunt U.S. Open Cup affair, but the amateur squad would bow out of the tournament after a 1-2 defeat in front of *8,668 fans at Nippert Stadium.*


----------



## GunnerJacket

Chevy114 said:


> The issue to me is other cities could be just as dynamic too, they just won't give them a shot. It's like they said ok we did our charitable work by going to less than desirable cities and giving them a pro soccer, that should be enough.


Apart from Columbus and Orlando MLS hasn't really done what you're implying. (One could argue Kansas City and Salt Lake, as well, I guess.) The smaller markets they've adopted happened to be the ones with some of the deepest soccer pedigree in North America. Portland, Vancouver, San Jose and Montreal have tons of history by US/Can standards. Certainly enough to stand apart from most other prominent candidates bar, say, Minnesota, Ft. Lauderdale and Tampa. Now Minnesota is getting in and the other two lack owner situations interested/able to meet MLS standards. Bottom line, MLS hasn't gone looking for charitable opportunities, they simply found rich soccer markets that could work and checked all/most of the boxes. 



> Why do they have to give big cities a 4th or in some cases an 8th pro team instead of a smaller town a 1st or 2nd pro team? Portland blows some of these cities away with fan support and tv viewership.


If by "_blow... away with... TV viewership_" you mean brings an extra 20,000-50,000 viewers then, yes, you're probably right. But that's barely pocket change in regards to relative worth to a broadcaster. MLS needs to register games with viewership closer to, and hopefully someday over, 1,000,000 people if they're ever to make the next step in TV money. Right now they're about 700,000 _away from that_ on average, even with all the big games shown in Seattle, LA, Portland and (surprisingly) Orlando. So adding more of the same won't cause ESPN and Fox to cough up bigger $, and some pundits are already worried that if ratings don't improve the cost-benefit of going to 28 teams may not be there. So while it's possible a team like Indy, Cincy or OKC might well come along and dazzle us with home crowds that's only a portion of what MLS must weigh at this moment. MLS needs to move the needle on TV, so regardless of their home atmosphere the league will chase options that appeal more to ESPN than to you or I. (See: NYCFC)

I'm not saying it's my preference, just noting that's how this will work.


----------



## Chevy114

All I want is for MLS to try larger cities with little to no pro sports to compete with. I don't care what size market they are, I want new cities in sports. They have done this with: Portland (1 other pro team), Columbus (1 other pro team), Salt Lake City (1 other pro team), and Orlando (1 other pro teams). 3 out of 4 of those teams were in the top half of attendance in 2015. Orlando was #2 behind a city with only 2 other pro teams to compete with Seattle. 

Here is my biggest point, The bottom 4 teams were from some of the largest cities in America with so many other pro teams to compete with. Colorado, Dallas, Chicago, and DC. 

So I'm asking why not Louisville over Detroit? Or San Antonio over Miami?


----------



## GunnerJacket

Chevy114 said:


> All I want is for MLS to try larger cities with little to no pro sports to compete with. I don't care what size market they are, I want new cities in sports. They have done this with: Portland (1 other pro team), Columbus (1 other pro team), Salt Lake City (1 other pro team), and Orlando (1 other pro teams). 3 out of 4 of those teams were in the top half of attendance in 2015. Orlando was #2 behind a city with only 2 other pro teams to compete with Seattle.
> 
> ...
> 
> So I'm asking why not Louisville over Detroit? Or San Antonio over Miami?


I'm not objecting to your idea, and I tend to think places like Charlotte could do very well. I also think Sacramento and San Antonio will indeed get the call, so you'll have those folks in your corner.

Also, Orlando is regarded by most as an outlier. Even the owners have been shocked at how well they're drawing, which is great, but again they're not making any notable impacts on the TV ratings.



> Here is my biggest point, The bottom 4 teams were from some of the largest cities in America with so many other pro teams to compete with. Colorado, Dallas, Chicago, and DC.


They all also share common elements:

- 3 MLS original teams and 1 from first round of expansion, so the newness has decidedly worn off and they still recall the days of thin crowds in huge venues.
- 3 in modest-to-lesser soccer stadiums in what's considered to be bad locations now but they had no real options at the time, while the other is in arguably the worst remaining venue.
- Generally poor performances across the board the past few years 

Even now their averages might continue to remain above the poorest league averages from years ago. So we all expect DC will improve once they get their own new digs, and in time we'll have to trust that the owners at the others will continue to chip away at the problems that hinder their local markets. In the meantime their struggles are the opportunities for all these other markets to shine, a la Portland and Orlando!

The point, remains, however, that to be a prominent sports league these days you need to resonate with TV viewers. Maybe MLS can improve in that arena with more smaller market metros, maybe they can't, we just have to trust they're doing the best they can based on what their partners tell them and based on what options they find at each market. I'd say they've earned some faith from the fans in this regard so far.


----------



## Chevy114

I'm glad you agree that they can go after those lesser cities. I always forget how bad the stadium location is for Chicago and Dallas. I had no idea Colorado had a bad location sorry about that. DC has a good location, but a bad stadium so I will let them slide. 

I would argue though that maybe MLS isn't for those big market cities with 3 plus pro teams competing with an MLS. I mean the only large market teams that are in the top half of attendance are NYCFC (a new team), LA (Win it every year or two), and Houston (the one large city that I respect no matter how good or bad the team does). To me soccer in America isn't a big time sport yet, if ever. So why try to act like it? I personally don't think those "traditional sports towns" want or need soccer. But that's just me.


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> I'm not objecting to your idea, and I tend to think places like Charlotte could do very well. I also think Sacramento and San Antonio will indeed get the call, so you'll have those folks in your corner.
> 
> Also, Orlando is regarded by most as an outlier. Even the owners have been shocked at how well they're drawing, which is great, but again they're not making any notable impacts on the TV ratings.
> 
> They all also share common elements:
> 
> - 3 MLS original teams and 1 from first round of expansion, so the newness has decidedly worn off and they still recall the days of thin crowds in huge venues.
> - 3 in modest-to-lesser soccer stadiums in what's considered to be bad locations now but they had no real options at the time, while the other is in arguably the worst remaining venue.
> - Generally poor performances across the board the past few years
> 
> Even now their averages might continue to remain above the poorest league averages from years ago. So we all expect DC will improve once they get their own new digs, and in time we'll have to trust that the owners at the others will continue to chip away at the problems that hinder their local markets. In the meantime their struggles are the opportunities for all these other markets to shine, a la Portland and Orlando!
> 
> The point, remains, however, that to be a prominent sports league these days you need to resonate with TV viewers. Maybe MLS can improve in that arena with more smaller market metros, maybe they can't, we just have to trust they're doing the best they can based on what their partners tell them and based on what options they find at each market. I'd say they've earned some faith from the fans in this regard so far.


A very fair and balanced analysis. On a similar note, at VC meetings you sometimes hear the joke that in the future you will just fill the people in digitally and avoid a lot of headaches since the broadcast revenues are the real prize. Eventually even the stands will be digital. Exaggeration, but you get the idea.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Chevy114 said:


> I'm glad you agree that they can go after those lesser cities. I always forget how bad the stadium location is for Chicago and Dallas. I had no idea Colorado had a bad location sorry about that. DC has a good location, but a bad stadium so I will let them slide.
> 
> I would argue though that maybe MLS isn't for those big market cities with 3 plus pro teams competing with an MLS. I mean the only large market teams that are in the top half of attendance are NYCFC (a new team), LA (Win it every year or two), and Houston (the one large city that I respect no matter how good or bad the team does). To me soccer in America isn't a big time sport yet, if ever. So why try to act like it? I personally don't think those "traditional sports towns" want or need soccer. But that's just me.


Well we have the benefit of hindsight. When MLS was starting from scratch, with pro soccer in the US at a major low and only enough money for 10 teams they had to shoot for places that sounded good at the time. The market for soccer, and how sports content is distributed and consumed, has changed dramatically in the single generation since. And many of the current success stories owe something to those who've paved the way for them.



pesto said:


> On a similar note, at VC meetings you sometimes hear the joke that in the future you will just fill the people in digitally and avoid a lot of headaches since the broadcast revenues are the real prize. Eventually even the stands will be digital. Exaggeration, but you get the idea.


I wouldn't be shocked, sadly. (Do they not do this in North Korea already?!)

It would still suck, though.


----------



## Chevy114

I would counter that and ask why Columbus got a team. But I know what you mean. My point was more that we can stop this trend and MLS can admit that they are a rebel league now and doesn't play by traditional rules and get those mid level cities or large cities with little to no pro sports to compete with. I doubt they will, but just a hope


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

Dynamo reports tix sold, not people present at the game. Their attendance last year was like 20k (stadium holds 22k), stadium was half empty, regularly.

Dynamo fan from Bosnia Herzegovina.


----------



## will101

This is a shot from yesterday showing the US men's national team, training for Copa America at Avaya Stadium. Tweeted by Elliott Almond, and somewhere in there he monkeyed with the color a bit. Made for an interesting picture.


----------



## will101

MikeC9180 said:


> Do you know if all of the stats are reported in the same way by all the clubs i.e. Do they report actual bums on seats or do they all report tickets sold?
> 
> For me it is very interesting to see how consistent the RSL attendances are as capacity is only a couple of hundred more than their mean attendance. I noticed them particularly as they are the MLS team I follow. English guy, lives in Sweden, support RSL - completely logical!


AFAIK all of the MLS teams go by tickets sold.


----------



## BlazerBlaze

ATLUTD will have a mid field tunnel that walks through the club under the stands like AT&T Stadium. Some other highlights about the lockers and features at MBS.



> First, the locker rooms will be, in Eales' words, "bloody unbelievable."
> 
> The home locker rooms will have a central area for the players, a warm-up/kick area next to it, and a large hydrotherapy area for players to recuperate after matches.
> 
> Eales was especially excited about a dining and family area that will sit right next to the home team's locker room:
> 
> "Pre-match meals will be held in this room, and then after the game, that's when the families can come to visit the players after a game. So again, trying to create something that a lot of other clubs don't have that you would see traditionally at European stadiums. But also to have that family feeling of club and to make it a club that players want to join."
> 
> There will also be a separate head coach's office for entertaining visiting coaches, something many European managers enjoy.
> 
> Atlanta United also looked to NFL teams like the Dallas Cowboys for inspiration, with players exiting the locker room and walking to the pitch through fans gathered in the Mercedes-Benz Club. And the players' entrance onto the field will be extra dramatic:
> 
> "We're going to have one of those tunnels like you have in South America and Europe. Imagine what we can do with the new stadium. We can cut off the lights, have a spotlight, and everyone comes out of this little tunnel like they do in South America or if you play in Central America. A lot of the clubs in MLS come from the corners, and it's not that feeling of the crowd waiting in anticipation."


http://www.dirtysouthsoccer.com/2016/6/1/11831042/views-from-the-future-atlanta-united-locker-rooms


----------



## GunnerJacket

Apart from the name I'm pretty much loving everything AUFC is doing so far, but this one thing concerns me:

_"We're going to have one of those tunnels like you have in South America and Europe. Imagine what we can do with the new stadium. We can cut off the lights, have a spotlight, and everyone comes out of this little tunnel like they do in South America or if you play in Central America."_

I'm really hoping this doesn't regress into something like conventional NFL or NBA player introductions. I'm not big into forced hype and pomp, which can come off as extremely obnoxious when your team is struggling on the pitch. This isn't WWE, so keep it classy!


----------



## aquamaroon

GunnerJacket said:


> Apart from the name I'm pretty much loving everything AUFC is doing so far,


Just curious, why did they go with "Atlanta United"? Minnesota United makes sense since it's the soccer club of both of the twin cities, and I guess D.C. United makes sense as the "United States", but what is "united" in Atlanta? Was it a couple of soccer clubs or something in the history, or was it just a play on Manchester United for casual soccer fans in Georgia?


----------



## tinyslam

They conducted a survey to see how supporters felt about a multitude of soccer related words that fit their description of the image that they wanted to be attached to the new club. "Atlanta" "United" and "Football Club" were all high on the list of words that people associated with a new soccer team. So they stuck them together and called it a day. Nowhere did they ask which name people liked best. That's my understanding of the process at least; having filled out that survey.


----------



## GunnerJacket

^^ That's pretty much it. That's the name and it's not going to change, for better or for worse. PM me if you want more info, aqua, so that we don't drag the thread down this debate once more.


----------



## aquamaroon

Haha thanks guys! I kind of figured it was along those lines, no need to drag the thread down on it . For the record I don't think the name is TOO bad, I think it's kind of cool (and I have focus group data to back that opinion up apparently). It's simple and classy, and I think it'll age well.


----------



## NL-duketown

ow men!

Unbelievable how MLS is developing...


----------



## bd popeye

*10K FC Cincy-Crystal Palace tickets sold already*



> Tickets went on sale Monday morning for FC Cincinnati's international friendly match against Crystal Palace for July 16 and within a few hours 10,000 had been sold.
> 
> Crystal Palace was an FA Cup finalist in the 2015-2016 season. They lost 2-1 to Manchester United in the final on May 21.
> 
> “It’s a tremendous opportunity to bring a Barclays English Premier League team such as Crystal Palace to Cincinnati,” said President and General Manager, Jeff Berding, in a news release.
> 
> The club tweeted just before 10 a.m. that 10,000 tickets had been sold. Those included pre-sale window ticket sales that opened for season ticket holders last week.
> 
> Head Coach John Harkes said it's an incredible opportunity to play against such a quality opponent, in a news release.
> 
> "This is a club with a tremendous history in the game at the highest level for many years," Harkes added. "As a young club, it will present a huge challenge and a tremendous experience for our players and fans of FC Cincinnati."
> 
> Cincinnati is one of three friendly matches as part of Crystal Palace's North America tour. They also play the Philadelphia Union on July 13 and the Vancouver White Caps on July 19.
> 
> Season ticket holders have a single ticket to the friendly included in their 2016 packages, according to the news release.
> 
> The match will be played in Nippert Stadium July 16 at 7 p.m. Tickets start at $10 for general admission.


_My prediction is that FC Cincinnati will have to sell the seats in the upper deck at Nippert Stadium to accommodate the demand for tickets._


----------



## slipperydog

Pablo Maurer ‏@MLSist 1h1 hour ago
Says Rayo is considering what to do w/OKC franchise - probably sell it, losing as little $$ as possible.

Toni López @ToniLopez93
Presa confirma que se estudia qué hacer con la franquicia del Rayo en Oklahoma. Venderla a lo mejor, perdiendo el menor dinero posible.


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

I expected it, but not this fast. :lol:


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> Pablo Maurer ‏@MLSist 1h1 hour ago
> Says Rayo is considering what to do w/OKC franchise - probably sell it, losing as little $$ as possible.
> 
> Toni López @ToniLopez93
> Presa confirma que se estudia qué hacer con la franquicia del Rayo en Oklahoma. Venderla a lo mejor, perdiendo el menor dinero posible.


Welcome to Economics 101.

If anything I'm sorry it took them this long to figure it out.


----------



## bd popeye

*Pair of Okoli goals lead to FC Cincinnati win*

Another great crowd for FC Cincinnati... 14,267 - Saturday versus FC Montreal..and the won the match to boot!



> FC Cincinnati surpasses 100K in league attendance
> 
> For the seventh consecutive game, Cincinnati pre-sold at least 10,000 tickets for a home match. The continuation of the streak also allowed FC Cincinnati to cross the 100,000 threshold for league attendance on the season. The team came into the FC Montreal match with 97,223 total attendance through its first six USL matches and, with Saturday's crowd of 14,267, upped its season total to 111,490 (120,158 including the May 18 Lamar Hunt U.S. Open Cup match against Indy Eleven NPSL).
> 
> Harkes said he's pleasantly surprised every time the organization achieves another attendance feat.
> 
> "I think people just want to see a high-level performance in the city," said Harkes. "The fans are there... The fan base is fantastic. They get behind us and their passion comes across really well. We appreciate all the suppport they're giving us."





> The Sean Okoli Show took center stage at Nippert Stadium Saturday night. Visiting FC Montreal had a front row seat.
> 
> Okoli, the Futbol Club Cincinnati forward, continued his fine form of late with his first two-goal performance of the season. His tallies lifted FC Cincinnati (7-2-3, United Soccer League) to a 2-1 win against Montreal (1-10-0).
> 
> Okoli converted a penalty kick in the 35th minute to give FC Cincinnati a one-goal advantage against Montreal that held through to halftime. Okoli then tallied his second of the night on a one-time volley in the 48th minute to provide the insurance goal.
> 
> With the win, FC Cincinnati improved its USL unbeaten streak to eight games


----------



## will101

The game between the Quakes and Galaxy at Stanford Stadium is "close to a sellout". Here is a gratuitous shot of last year's game at sunset, tweeted by the Quakes:


----------



## eric the midget

^^Beautiful!


----------



## nyrmetros

How was the usa crowd in Seattle and Philly and Chicago?


----------



## bd popeye

Ahh... FC Cincinnati!!!..Futbol fever is GROWING in Cincinnati!

*SECOND-HALF FINISH EXTENDS FCC UNBEATEN STREAK TO NINE*http://www.fccincinnati.com/second-half-finish-extends-fcc-unbeaten-streak-to-nine/



> CINCINNATI, Ohio — FC Cincinnati scored two goals within two minutes of each other in a 2-1 victory over Toronto FC II, to extend their USL unbeaten streak to nine games Saturday night in front of 19,112 at Nippert Stadium. The attendance marked the third highest for FC Cincinnati this year.


FC Cincinnat1 home attendance for 2016 thus far..

1. 23,375 - May 14 versus Pittsburgh Riverhounds.

2. 20,497 - April 16 versus Louisville City FC.

3. 19,112 - June 18th Vs Toronto FC II

4. 16,097 - Saturday versus Harrisburg City Islanders.

5. 14,658 - April 9 versus Charlotte Independence.

6. 14,267 - June 11th Vs FC Montreal

7. 11,318 - April 30 versus Wilmington Hammerheads FC

8. 8,668 - May 18 versus Indy Eleven NPSL (Lamar Hunt U.S. Open Cup)[/QUOTE]


----------



## bd popeye

_Very exuberant announcers for FC Cincinnati.._


----------



## bd popeye

_FC Cincinnati.. Fan Hype Video_


----------



## SounderBruce

nyrmetros said:


> How was the usa crowd in Seattle and Philly and Chicago?


Santa Clara, vs. Colombia: 67,439 (68K)
Chicago, vs. Costa Rica: 39,642 (61K)
Philadelphia, vs. Paraguay: 51,041 (70K)
Seattle, vs. Ecuador: 47,322 (67K)

66,000 sold so far in Houston for the semi-final, according to Houston Texans president Ubaldo Martinez: https://twitter.com/umartinez/status/743882992557260800


----------



## Guest

Orlando City tribute (attendance was 37,000 at this game):






On Twitter some guy said: Why are the balloons not red white and blue, instead of random colors...


----------



## carnifex2005

Another story about the continuing New England Revolution soccer stadium pipe dream...

*In latest push, Kraft eyes soccer stadium in Dorchester*

Robert Kraft’s hunt for a new home for the New England Revolution has led him to hold talks about building a soccer stadium in Dorchester at the site of the former Bayside Expo Center, now owned by the University of Massachusetts.

Kraft, who owns both the Revolution andthe New England Patriots, has for years wanted to move the Revolutionout of Gillette Stadium in Foxborough and into a smaller facility designed for soccer.After considering properties in other parts of Boston, the billionaire has more recently focused on the Bayside site, according to people with knowledge of the discussions.

University officials have been in active discussions with Kraft but do not appear to be close to an agreement, said the people, who asked not to be named because the talks are ongoing.

More info in the link above.


----------



## GunnerJacket

I think the saddest thing about the Revs stadium issue is that the Krafts (seemingly) haven't done anything to make the Gillette experience better. I don't recall hearing of any grand discussion with the fans about improving the gameday atmosphere, I haven't seen them close off and dress up the upper decks to make the stadium feel more intimate, and I haven't heard of any substantial programs designed to help connect with supporters' groups. Maybe they're doing something and I just don't know about it, but I'd like to think that if the support is indeed there and the ownership is willing there's no reason they can't find a way to mimic the experience of Orlando, Vancouver or Seattle regarding MLS in an NFL-sized venue.

Put another way: If Orlando can do as well as they have and if Atlanta comes in and pulls 25k+, then it might be time to rethink how much of the Revs issue is the venue and ownership versus how much is on the fans.


----------



## BoulderGrad

GunnerJacket said:


> I think the saddest thing about the Revs stadium issue is that the Krafts (seemingly) haven't done anything to make the Gillette experience better. I don't recall hearing of any grand discussion with the fans about improving the gameday atmosphere, I haven't seen them close off and dress up the upper decks to make the stadium feel more intimate, and I haven't heard of any substantial programs designed to help connect with supporters' groups. Maybe they're doing something and I just don't know about it, but I'd like to think that if the support is indeed there and the ownership is willing there's no reason they can't find a way to mimic the experience of Orlando, Vancouver or Seattle regarding MLS in an NFL-sized venue.
> 
> Put another way: If Orlando can do as well as they have and if Atlanta comes in and pulls 25k+, then it might be time to rethink how much of the Revs issue is the venue and ownership versus how much is on the fans.


I think that's unfair to the fans. One big issue you're leaving out there is stadium location.

CLink is on the very south edge of DT Seattle, BC Place is right at the gateway to DT Vancouver, Camping worl.... (I just can't do it...) The Citrus Bowl is just west of DT Orlando, even Atlanta's new stadium is on the west edge of DT Atlanta. All of them are next to transit stops (minus Orlando since Orlando doesn't have a rail transit system), large population centers, and all of the amenities that being near the CBD allows you.

Compare all that to Gillette which is nearly 30 miles (40 min drive on a good day) away from (very transit heavy) central Boston next to just a mall with the standard chain restaurant fair and ask yourself as a fan if you would make that trek 17 times. All the marketing in the world isn't going to make the stadium closer to the city.


----------



## Lumbergo

BoulderGrad said:


> I think that's unfair to the fans. One big issue you're leaving out there is stadium location.... Camping worl.... (I just can't do it...) The Citrus Bowl is just west of DT Orlando, .... All of them are next to transit stops (minus Orlando since Orlando doesn't have a rail transit system)....


 Actually Orlando _kind of_ does have a transit system though it is very limited. Sunrail began operating within the last couple of years though currently it's only a north/south line. The downtown stations are within walking distance of the Citrus Bowl and the new stadium will be even closer.







And yes, no one here refers to the Citrus Bowl by anything but the Citrus Bowl.


----------



## bd popeye

Kraft has been making up stories about a new stadium for the Revs for over ten years. Read the first post in this thread... It's time for him to tell the truth about the whole Revs stadium situation. 

Hey..wait a minute!!!..Kraft OWNS the NE Patriots right? That makes it hard, very hard for him to tell the truth. I know what to do!!.. ask Belichick or Brady they probably know as much as Kraft does about a new Revs stadium.:nuts:


----------



## will101

carnifex2005 said:


> Another story about the continuing New England Revolution soccer stadium pipe dream...
> 
> *In latest push, Kraft eyes soccer stadium in Dorchester*
> 
> Robert Kraft’s hunt for a new home for the New England Revolution has led him to hold talks about building a soccer stadium in Dorchester at the site of the former Bayside Expo Center, now owned by the University of Massachusetts.
> 
> Kraft, who owns both the Revolution andthe New England Patriots, has for years wanted to move the Revolutionout of Gillette Stadium in Foxborough and into a smaller facility designed for soccer.After considering properties in other parts of Boston, the billionaire has more recently focused on the Bayside site, according to people with knowledge of the discussions.
> 
> University officials have been in active discussions with Kraft but do not appear to be close to an agreement, said the people, who asked not to be named because the talks are ongoing.
> 
> More info in the link above.


It sounds like he is taking lessons from Mark Davis. Talk up anyone, anywhere, but do nothing unless the money falls from the sky.


----------



## GunnerJacket

BoulderGrad said:


> I think that's unfair to the fans. One big issue you're leaving out there is stadium location.
> 
> CLink is on the very south edge of DT Seattle, BC Place is right at the gateway to DT Vancouver, Camping worl.... (I just can't do it...) The Citrus Bowl is just west of DT Orlando, even Atlanta's new stadium is on the west edge of DT Atlanta. All of them are next to transit stops (minus Orlando since Orlando doesn't have a rail transit system), large population centers, and all of the amenities that being near the CBD allows you.
> 
> Compare all that to Gillette which is nearly 30 miles (40 min drive on a good day) away from (very transit heavy) central Boston next to just a mall with the standard chain restaurant fair and ask yourself as a fan if you would make that trek 17 times. All the marketing in the world isn't going to make the stadium closer to the city.


Oh I get that, but it's also now been 20 years and there's no reason for the fans to be delusional about their options. At the earliest we know it's a good 4-5 years before they could move anywhere, and that keeps getting pushed out with each year there's nothing new to announce. Kraft isn't going to spend an additional $100M + for a venue that will only bring in 20k fans, and if they're capable of 25-30k fans then that could translate into a solid atmosphere at Gillette. Thus it appears there's some impetus for the fans to make the best of their situation. 

I'm not blaming them for the current conditions, merely saying I think they should in the meantime try to take charge of making Gillette a better atmosphere yet I don't hear/read much about that. I can't imagine Kraft would veto small, cheap measures that might endear more fans to the cause.


----------



## BoulderGrad

GunnerJacket said:


> Oh I get that, but it's also now been 20 years and there's no reason for the fans to be delusional about their options. At the earliest we know it's a good 4-5 years before they could move anywhere, and that keeps getting pushed out with each year there's nothing new to announce. Kraft isn't going to spend an additional $100M + for a venue that will only bring in 20k fans, and if they're capable of 25-30k fans then that could translate into a solid atmosphere at Gillette. Thus it appears there's some impetus for the fans to make the best of their situation.
> 
> I'm not blaming them for the current conditions, merely saying I think they should in the meantime try to take charge of making Gillette a better atmosphere yet I don't hear/read much about that. I can't imagine Kraft would veto small, cheap measures that might endear more fans to the cause.


That's like saying its up to the cinema goers to make a movie good. Yeah, it helps if there's other folks sharing in the emotion of a film, but that's by no means the main ingredient in making a good movie that people want to enjoy. "If ya'll would just laugh a little louder, maybe more people would want to come see the latest Kevin Hart Movie!"


----------



## The Game Is Up

And another proposal that looks to go nowhere...

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/co...rchester_soccer_stadium_plan_draws_a_red_card


----------



## GunnerJacket

BoulderGrad said:


> That's like saying its up to the cinema goers to make a movie good. Yeah, it helps if there's other folks sharing in the emotion of a film, but that's by no means the main ingredient in making a good movie that people want to enjoy. "If ya'll would just laugh a little louder, maybe more people would want to come see the latest Kevin Hart Movie!"


No. I'm talking about the ancillary things and settings that might make it more appealing for fans. What is the set up for tailgating? What are the prospects for a proper Revs themed facility on-site to help build pre and post-match appeal? I'm talking about supporter's groups coming up with alternatives to the pre-game march they might enjoy at an different location. 

Nor am I putting it all on the fans as the team/Kraft will ultimately have to abide, but isn't the ideal set up where the fans guide the team in what they want, anyway? I know that's a popular feature of the communication between teams and fans in Seattle, Portland and SKC. So how much energy are fans in Boston putting in to helping show the Revs make Gillette the best it can be? All I hear is "_Move! Move! Move!_" Well, if the team isn't moving, what then?

This is a telling issue, as well, because MLS has several teams with facilities outside the urban core and/or removed from the bulk of their fan base. While ultimately it will be nice to have everyone ideally located that won't always be the case, so we need to find an alternative that can work and endear fans to making suburban venues at least somewhat successful until that ideal location comes along.

They're not trying to make the movie better, they're trying to tell the theatre owner "_Here's how you could amend your theatre to make me enjoy coming here more often, regardless of the movie._"


----------



## NL-duketown

Rule no. 1 to improve football experience: Brings fans as close to field as possible. 

Since most of the revenue is in sponsorship and broadcasting, I wonder what priority it is for MLS to improve in-stadium experience. i.e. In Dutch Eredivisie, revenue is 20%+ generated by gate receipts. I guess, MLS isn't anywhere close to that, so financial motive isn't as urgent. Just speculation without real data...

And does US football have standing places?


----------



## GunnerJacket

NL-duketown said:


> Since most of the revenue is in sponsorship and broadcasting, I wonder what priority it is for MLS to improve in-stadium experience. i.e. In Dutch Eredivisie, revenue is 20%+ generated by gate receipts. I guess, MLS isn't anywhere close to that, so financial motive isn't as urgent.


Actually MLS teams are pretty dependent on game day revenues because their TV contracts are so small. Neither, however, is a windfall save for maybe a handful of teams. 



> And does US football have standing places?


Not yet in the conventional sense, but most venues permit standing in seated areas and most MLS venues feature a section dedicated to supporters' groups where standing is actually encouraged. Orlando's new stadium will be the first, I believe, with a standing area actually designed without seats.


----------



## gazzaa2

BoulderGrad said:


> I think that's unfair to the fans. One big issue you're leaving out there is stadium location.
> 
> CLink is on the very south edge of DT Seattle, BC Place is right at the gateway to DT Vancouver, Camping worl.... (I just can't do it...) The Citrus Bowl is just west of DT Orlando, even Atlanta's new stadium is on the west edge of DT Atlanta. All of them are next to transit stops (minus Orlando since Orlando doesn't have a rail transit system), large population centers, and all of the amenities that being near the CBD allows you.
> 
> Compare all that to Gillette which is nearly 30 miles (40 min drive on a good day) away from (very transit heavy) central Boston next to just a mall with the standard chain restaurant fair and ask yourself as a fan if you would make that trek 17 times. All the marketing in the world isn't going to make the stadium closer to the city.


The franchises who haven't sorted their stadiums should be threatened with expulsion over time and replaced by clubs that can enter the league with their own DT stadium.

You've got NYCFC, DC United and the Revs. NYCFC can at least point to big crowds at the Yankee Stadium and DC are in place to have their own ground built. Chivas were kicked out the league for failing and the Revs at some point need to sort their stadium issue.


----------



## GunnerJacket

MLS won't, and shouldn't, kick anyone out because that's simply bad press and burns the rapport with fans. Of a team is truly failing it will instead told on it's own a la Chivas USA. 

More over, the Revs failures lie in the eye of the beholder. Sure their crowds are on the low end but they're not the smallest and the venue situation is technically in their favor. That's why spending money for a stadium with anything less than consistent sell-outs of, say, 23k is probably a losing proposition on their part.


----------



## will101

GunnerJacket said:


> Not yet in the conventional sense, but most venues permit standing in seated areas and most MLS venues feature a section dedicated to supporters' groups where standing is actually encouraged. Orlando's new stadium will be the first, I believe, with a standing area actually designed without seats.


Avaya's standing area was redesigned early in the construction phase, but before the concrete was even poured. So it depends on where you draw the line.


----------



## gazzaa2

GunnerJacket said:


> MLS won't, and shouldn't, kick anyone out because that's simply bad press and burns the rapport with fans. Of a team is truly failing it will instead told on it's own a la Chivas USA.
> 
> More over, the Revs failures lie in the eye of the beholder. Sure their crowds are on the low end but they're not the smallest and the venue situation is technically in their favor. That's why spending money for a stadium with anything less than consistent sell-outs of, say, 23k is probably a losing proposition on their part.


Clubs should be held to certain standards on and off the pitch over a period of time. On the pitch there's no team who are bottom every year, but there's a few clubs who need to sort their stadium issues.


----------



## GunnerJacket

will101 said:


> Avaya's standing area was redesigned early in the construction phase, but before the concrete was even poured. So it depends on where you draw the line.


Thanks for the info. Have only seen a couple games from Avaya on TV but will look for that next time.


----------



## Lumbergo

*With renovations to Lockhart Stadium on hold indefinitely, the Fort Lauderdale Strikers announced Tuesday they are moving out.*

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/...rikers-announce-move-0720-20160719-story.html

After calling the historic stadium off of western Commercial Boulevard home for nearly 40 years, the NASL club will play its final match at Lockhart on July 30, when the Strikers host the Jacksonville Armada.

They will debut at their new home, Central Broward Stadium in Lauderhill, on Aug. 20, when Ottawa Fury FC comes to town.

The Strikers, whose lease at Lockhart runs until Dec. 31, say the change is necessary.

"*The move to Central Broward Stadium allows us to focus on our fans and improving the experience of attending a Strikers match — a critical pillar of the club's long-term success," Strikers managing director Luis Cuccatti said in a statement released Tuesday.*

_The Strikers have made some improvements to Lockhart since 2015, when a group of Brazilian businessmen bought the club. A giant video board was installed and the press box, PA system and seating areas were upgraded. But the team says major renovations, including new locker rooms, installing a stadium roof, replacing seating and repairing the concrete structure itself, are needed at the 57-year-old venue._

_But Lockhart won't undergo renovation any time soon. The stadium is part of the land adjacent to Fort Lauderdale Executive Airport the City of Fort Lauderdale was set to lease to Schlitterbahn. The Texas-based company had received city approval to build a $70-million water park on the 64 acres, but that proposal is now tied up in court, being challenged by the competition, the owners of Rapids Water Park in Riviera Beach.

The Schlitterbahn master plan includes revamping Lockhart into a state-of-the-art venue. The Strikers, if they return to Lockhart, would sublease the stadium from the water park operator._

*In the meantime, Central Broward Regional Park will not only host the Strikers' home games on Main Event Field, but also will house the team's front office. The complex will also accommodate the club's development programs, including Strikers U-23 and youth development partner Fort Lauderdale FC.*

"While the history of Lockhart remains compelling and the pitch itself is a great venue," Strikers advisor Sean Guerin said Tuesday, Central Broward Stadium is "an excellent fit for the future of the Fort Lauderdale Strikers."

*Central Broward Stadium has been used by Major League Soccer for its annual combine for several years and played host to multiple preseason MLS friendlies.*

Park manager Duncan Finch said *the facility, which opened in 2008 to house cricket, has the necessary features — including VIP hospitality accommodations, covered seating and a modern press box — to make it an attractive venue for professional soccer.*

Finch said Broward County is working with the Strikers on a long-term lease agreement, which could be could be worth more than $200,000 annually for the county.

*Under the team's lease agreement with the city, the Strikers plan to use Lockhart Stadium as a venue for hosting international friendly matches and tournaments.*

In February, the city commission passed an amended lease to ease the likely financial burden for the Strikers of holding simultaneous stadium leases. Through the end of this year, the Strikers will be responsible for the maintenance at Lockhart and will pay total rent of $1.


----------



## will101

A public stadium for cricket in Florida. Did I miss something along the way?

Edit: never mind. I just saw the posts up above. And the literal translation for 'innenstadt' is inner city, so downtown is a slight paraphrase.


----------



## master_klon

*MLS Commissioner Don Garber gives expansion update*

Major League Soccer commissioner Don Garber sat down with ESPN at halftime of Thursday’s MLS All-Star Game, giving an update on expansion... Garber tackled expansion first. He gave an outline on Atlanta United's progress ahead of their 2017 MLS debut. He also gave an update on the league's 2018 expansion plans, mentioning LAFC -- who will join the league in 2018 -- and David Beckham's potential Miami franchise. 

“Let’s start with the first one, Atlanta," Garber said. "They made a presentation at our board meeting, 31,000 season ticket deposits, unbelievable technical development, a training ground, so we know they’re coming in next. *We know we have another announcement in a couple of weeks of who will join them. We’ve got two more teams after that. LAFC are going to break ground on their stadium in two weeks and we hope to still get something done in Miami, but then we’ll have four more teams [after that]. I can’t tell you when that’s going to be, we’re going to be careful and we’re going to make sure that we manage the technical aspects of expansion, but there’s a lot of interest, probably a dozen cities for those last four spots.*” 

Beckham and his group acquired six acres of land in Miami’s Overtown neighborhood this spring, but are still attempting to purchase a three-acre plot from Miami-Dade County needed to complete their proposed stadium. MLS established a South Florida foothold early in the league’s history, with the Fusion playing from 1998-2001. “Every time we talk about [Miami] things are happening there, but it takes time,” Garber said. “You’ve got to get it right. We failed there once. We have a good investor, we’ve got David engaged, we’ve got a site, but it’s going to take some time before we’ve got any real news.”


----------



## bd popeye

_...speaking of expansion...I saw this via internet yesterday;_


----------



## carnifex2005

Official attendance at Michigan Stadium today: 105,826. Second-biggest all-time soccer crowd in the United States watched Real Madrid beat Chelsea 3-2.


----------



## Guest

Genuinely dont understand why people go these games, but all the power to them. Does make for some good stadium porn.


----------



## likasz

^^ Because that's the only way to watch best teams in soccer at a stadium on the US soil. Ppl in Europe buy tickets for NBA euro tour because that's the only way in Europe to directly see best b-ball teams.


----------



## carnifex2005

12,251 fans at showed up at Finley Stadium in Chattanooga for the NPSL (USSF 4th Division) semi-final. Unfortunately for the fans, Chattanooga FC lost to Sonoma County Sol 2-1.


----------



## Lumbergo

it's great to see some of these lower league teams doing well.


----------



## Lakeland

likasz said:


> ^^ Because that's the only way to watch best teams in soccer at a stadium on the US soil. Ppl in Europe buy tickets for NBA euro tour because that's the only way in Europe to directly see best b-ball teams.


Yep, I went to both games and had a great time. Even though most top players didn't play, watching a legendary team like Real Madrid in person is a treat. 

I was actually surprised that many people showed up for Chelsea. Last time around it was mostly Man United fans, but this time there was plenty of Real Madrid fans as well. If they decide to do this again, they need to have Barcelona. A Man United-Barcelona match would definitely set a new attendance record.


----------



## MarkJF

likasz said:


> ^^ Because that's the only way to watch best teams in soccer at a stadium on the US soil. Ppl in Europe buy tickets for NBA euro tour because that's the only way in Europe to directly see best b-ball teams.


Yes, I paid good money to see a pre-season 4 team competition at Wembley, I sat through it all just to see Lionel Messi live. These people have seen Real Madrid, live, it's a big deal, they've done it.


----------



## slipperydog

Some news on Nashville...



> _*Nashville joins cities seeking MLS expansion team*
> 
> ASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) Some Nashville investors and supporters are making a push for Music City to be among the communities awarded expansion franchises by Major League Soccer.
> 
> Bill Hagerty, a former state commissioner of economic and community development, and Will Alexander, the son of U.S. Sen. Lamar Alexander, are spearheading the effort called the Nashville MLS Organizing Committee. It includes a bipartisan group of former politicians and leaders of Nashville-area companies...
> 
> The Nashville proposal would include a downtown stadium, likely with some public financing...
> 
> The mayor’s long-range capital improvement plan includes $50 million in proposed revenue bonds for a potential municipal soccer facility, but Barry has not made a formal request to the Metro Council to move the project forward...
> 
> The organizing committee includes the heads of Bridgestone Americas and Nissan North America, both of which are based in the Nashville area. Hagerty noted that the tiremaker is heavily involved in sports sponsorship around the world and that the automaker has been a major sponsor of the European Champions League and the Manchester City Football Club...
> 
> Hagerty said MLS is expected to release an expansion timeline in the next several weeks. Other cities vying for teams include St. Louis; Sacramento, California; Detroit; San Diego; San Antonio and Austin, Texas; and Cincinnati._
> 
> http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2016/08/09/nashville-joins-cities-seeking-mls-expansion-team/


----------



## The Game Is Up

Sacramento Railyard Plans Shed Light On Major League Soccer Hopes

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2016...lans-shed-light-on-major-league-soccer-hopes/



> SACRAMENTO (CBS13) – Plans for building up the Railyards area are continuing to take shape. On Thursday, the planning commission reviewed details about the future of the 244-acre space and when we’ll see if start to take form.
> 
> “We hope and we really expect that Sacramento will be one of the next four,” said Major League Soccer Commissioner Don Garber during a visit to Sacramento four months ago.
> 
> Since then, plans for a major league team in the city seemed closer to being a sure thing. The setting for the stadium is just east of the Sacramento River at the Downtown Railyards.
> 
> “It makes Sacramento an active, vibrant city,” said Alan Hersh, the principal planner for Downtown Railyard Ventures. “It’ll be known throughout the country.


----------



## slipperydog

Some expansion updates...

Sacramento, St. Louis, and Detroit seem to be leading the way for the the last four spots, with San Diego, Cincinnati, Phoenix, Charlotte, Nashville, and San Antonio also in the mix.

Expansion fees could reach $200 million

LAFC looking to get in USL mix, possibly purchasing OC Blues

Wilmington Hammerheads going on hiatus, looking at possible move to Baltimore

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/201...iami-sacramento-st-louis-cincinnati-san-diego


----------



## Chevy114

All that and LAFC won't get an mls spot???


----------



## Lumbergo

huh? I thought they were already confirmed. my take is that they want to purchase a USL team for development purposes.


----------



## Chevy114

Lumbergo said:


> huh? I thought they were already confirmed. my take is that they want to purchase a USL team for development purposes.


Oh ok, I was lost


----------



## slipperydog

Expanding on earlier post...



> _All indications are that Sacramento, St. Louis and Detroit still lead the race for MLS teams 25-27. The wrinkle is that this is a race with no established rules or finish line. When announcing the league’s intention to grow to 28 clubs last December, Garber said, “During the next few months, we will evaluate the possibility of growing the league to 28 teams and establish a process and timeline should we decide on further expansion.”_


Sacramento, St. Louis, and Detroit seem to be leading the way for the the last four spots, with San Diego, Cincinnati, Phoenix, Charlotte, Nashville, and San Antonio also in the mix.

Sacramento is obvious. Frankly, Cincinnati should be too.

I still have my doubts about St. Louis. They are supposedly a 'soccer hotbed' yet have had middling attendance for their various USL teams and have struggled to put an ownership group and viable stadium plan together for years. Not sure why it would be any different now, but happy to be proven wrong. Would be nice if they actually allowed the people to vote on how their tax dollars are spent, as opposed to the way they tried to 'ram' the football stadium down their throats by litigating on a verbiage technicality.

Detroit has done surprisingly well for being in an amateur league and being fan-owned. Great color scheme as well, one of my favorites.

Also, the article states that the Wilmington Hammerheads are considering a move to Baltimore. Wonder where they would likely play if so. Johns Hopkins, perhaps?

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/201...iami-sacramento-st-louis-cincinnati-san-diego


----------



## Guest

Crowds are clearly not the first thing they're looking at. Sacramento is a slam dunk because they have all the pieces in place. Cincinnati don't have anything concrete as yet.


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> Crowds are clearly not the first thing they're looking at. Sacramento is a slam dunk because they have all the pieces in place. Cincinnati don't have anything concrete as yet.


I wouldn't say they "don't have anything," seeing as they have a team that has outdrawn some MLS sides at times and have publicly stated their intentions. Plus they're appealing enough to warrant hosting a match vs. a Premiership club, something several MLS sides haven't swung.


----------



## srini39

any game is better than no game


----------



## MicroX

Lumbergo said:


> 10,156 in attendance for Miami FC home opener against the Tampa Bay Rowdies at FIU Stadium in Miami.
> 
> To avoid any confusion here - Miami FC is not affiliated with David Beckham nor his efforts to bring MLS to Miami. Miami FC is owned by Riccardo Silva, a sports media mogul, and Italian soccer legend Paolo Maldini, and is part of the NASL.


I've been to see them play at FIU's stadium. Really, really dislike the field. Seems like an insult to the sport when played on synthetic grass. Just an opinion but synthetic fields make soccer unwatchable a lot of times; doesn't feel _pure_.


----------



## tehlazerviking

Any Orlando City updates?


----------



## tinyslam

^^^^

These are from the webcam. Progressing pretty well.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Related side-topic: Reports are trickling in regarding the potential demise of the NASL. (The independent, Division II league for soccer in the US) If reports are to be believed, the league will likely see defections next year to the Division III USL, in addition to possibly two teams folding due to financial losses, bringing the projected number of teams for 2017 to less than 9. There've been discussions about the probability of this for a few years, not with people wanting to see the teams go away but hopefully leading to a grand convergence of minor league soccer in the US. Might mean thinning the herd in the short term but yielding a stronger herd down the line, with an ultimately larger, healthier minor league in the States.


----------



## slipperydog

Interesting. Wonder if promotion/relegation could be employed within a growing USL that may become a bit unwieldy.


----------



## aquamaroon

slipperydog said:


> Interesting. Wonder if promotion/relegation could be employed within a growing USL that may become a bit unwieldy.


Yeah good thought, re: promotion/relegation in US Soccer. I always thought that the NASL and MLS would be perfect for a "closed" american style relegation system. That is to say, the two leagues operate as a two tier pyramid, with MLS at the top and NASL at the bottom. And the bottom three MLS teams get relegated every year and the Top 3 NASL teams get promoted. In order to take away the "stink" of relegation, you could call the two leagues say, "MLS A" and "MLS B".
This would be a good way to expand the MLS footprint without devoting the type of "Big 4 sport" financial investment in cities where soccer may not take off. And if a city surprises you in "MLS B" well then you can reward them with investment. At the same time, you are only dropping one tier, AND staying within the MLS framework, so it preserves the investment for the newer richer clubs. I.E. if you are LAFC and you suck, well you drop to MLS B and play Tampa and Cincinnati (still big respectable cities). However, if you're good then you play in MLS A against New York and Seattle.
At any rate, this is pretty far out of the norm with regards to how north american sports leagues operate, but if there is any chance for a pro/re system to take hold in US Soccer, then an absorption of the NASL by the MLS is how it will happen.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Based on all the chatter the outlook for the pro/rel is still 99.9% unlikely. What it would mean, I suspect, is that MLS expansion would be reserved for teams that have proven themselves within USL, and then if MLS ever truly grows wealthy (generations away) they could steer more money down to USL. 

But I can't see an MLS team being told to go down or voluntarily moving to a position of less revenue.


----------



## Franchise646

GunnerJacket said:


> Based on all the chatter the outlook for the pro/rel is still 99.9% unlikely. What it would mean, I suspect, is that MLS expansion would be reserved for teams that have proven themselves within USL, and then if MLS ever truly grows wealthy (generations away) they could steer more money down to USL.
> 
> But I can't see an MLS team being told to go down or voluntarily moving to a position of less revenue.


That's cause that's goes against the purpose of how MLS was set up. If people want Pro/Rel so badly, they are only going to get the baseball style player promotion and demotion thru a teams' system. If a player gets sent down then he can't get called back up for a year AND can only be replaced by a player already in the teams' system. 

Edit: the baseball term for demotion is being designated for assignment


----------



## jbradway

When you are asking new teams to pay a 200 million franchise fee to join the MLS, you certainly won't pay that if there is a chance you are going back the the USL.


----------



## slipperydog

I was referring to promotion/relegation within USL. As in League 1, League 2.

If the league has aspirations of getting even larger, makes sense.


----------



## hngcm




----------



## pesto

slipperydog said:


> I was referring to promotion/relegation within USL. As in League 1, League 2.
> 
> If the league has aspirations of getting even larger, makes sense.


Yes. You don't want to end up with, say, 5 teams putting in a billion each for quality teams and giving half the money to the owner of some podunk team with a $3.95 payroll and wooden benches, who no one wants to watch on TV.

You just have to come up with the right mechanism, as MLS already knows.


----------



## JJG

hngcm said:


>


Think San Antonio should do this with UTSA...?


----------



## BoulderGrad

JJG said:


> Think San Antonio should do this with UTSA...?


San Antonio already has a stadium with plans to expand it for a potential MLS franchise. San Diego has to start from scratch.


----------



## JJG

BoulderGrad said:


> *San Antonio already has a stadium with plans to expand it for a potential MLS franchise.* San Diego has to start from scratch.


Yeah I know that. 

I'm just talking about UTSA football. The Alamodome isn't being used by anyone else but them, and that's good and all, but it just seems too big for them...


----------



## Chevy114

I think it would be cool if UTSA gave up on the alamo dome and partnered up with an MLS owner to build a stadium they could both use, but I like the park San Antonio already has for soccer. Wonder why UTSA doesn't just that one?


----------



## irving1903

Chevy114 said:


> I think it would be cool if UTSA gave up on the alamo dome and partnered up with an MLS owner to build a stadium they could both use, but I like the park San Antonio already has for soccer. Wonder why UTSA doesn't just that one?


Probably because Toyota Field only holds about 8K, if they wanted to go with something like that they could use NISD's Farris Field right next to campus, it at least holds 11K. 

But To be fair though, the Farris Athletic Complex rivals some university facilities so there's that....


----------



## Chevy114

I would use an NASL stadium before I use another school's stadium.


----------



## carnifex2005




----------



## eMKay

It's too bad they lost, but DAMN! Doesn't the above pic just scream, SOCCER, AMERICAN STYLE! I love it.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

I found the interview with Peter Wilt on the Dummy Podcast by Howler Magazine really interesting: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/george-quraishi/howler-radio I suppose you here are more familiar with Peter Wilt. He probably knows about sports and soccer markets better than anyone. The discussion revolves around the contents of an article he wrote for Howler, which is subscription based so it's not available to read online for free. They talk about the potential "new Cincinnatti", do you have an idea which city it is?


----------



## aquamaroon

eMKay said:


> It's too bad they lost, but DAMN! Doesn't the above pic just scream, SOCCER, AMERICAN STYLE! I love it.


Yeah, from looking at the photos Cincinnati has definitely shown itself to be a soccer hotbed! it doesn't look like they are in line for the next round of MLS expansion, but the MLS should certainly keep an eye out on the Cincinnati for the future.


----------



## Guest

alexandru.mircea said:


> I found the interview with Peter Wilt on the Dummy Podcast by Howler Magazine really interesting: http://www.stitcher.com/podcast/george-quraishi/howler-radio I suppose you here are more familiar with Peter Wilt. He probably knows about sports and soccer markets better than anyone. The discussion revolves around the contents of an article he wrote for Howler, which is subscription based so it's not available to read online for free. They talk about the potential "new Cincinnatti", do you have an idea which city it is?


For anyone wondering, it's Omaha (but there are several lists, Omaha was just for cities 750k-1m). Not for MLS, just for pro soccer expansion, which I guess means USL in this case. 

The article is actually available, right here: https://whatahowler.com/professional-soccer-expansion-in-north-america-45715f7806ec#.9ax0qgcfm

Wilt's requirements for expansion:

( read article for full analysis of each)

1. Population
2. Whether existing sports teams exist
3. Available venue
4. Homegrown population
5. New American population
6. Young adult population
7. Youth soccer participation
8. Corporate support
9. Climate
10. Local pro and amateur history


----------



## alexandru.mircea

^ thanks!


----------



## Manitopiaaa

My dream 32-team MLS:


Atlanta: Atlanta United FC	
**Austin*
Boston: New England Revolution	
Chicago: Chicago Fire
**Cleveland (or Cincinnati)*
Columbus: Columbus Crew SC	
Dallas: FC Dallas	
Denver: Colorado Rapids	
**Detroit*
Houston: Houston Dynamo	
Kansas City: Sporting Kansas City
**Las Vegas*
Los Angeles: Los Angeles FC, Los Angeles Galaxy
Miami: Miami Beckham United
Minneapolis: Minnesota United FC	
Montreal: Montreal Impact	
New York: New York City FC, New York Red Bulls 
Orlando: Orlando City SC	
Philadelphia: Philadelphia Union	
**Phoenix*
Portland: Portland Timbers	
**Sacramento*
Salt Lake City: Real Salt Lake
**San Diego*
San Francisco: San Jose Earthquakes
Seattle: Seattle Sounders FC	
**Tampa*
Toronto: Toronto FC	
Vancouver: Vancouver Whitecaps FC	
Washington: D.C. United


----------



## JJG

Manitopiaaa said:


> My dream 32-team MLS:
> 
> 
> 
> **Austin*


Not knocking your list. It is your dream and all... but most likely, San Antonio is going to be the 3rd Texas team in the MLS.


----------



## Guest

Manitopiaaa said:


> My dream 32-team MLS:
> 
> 
> Atlanta: Atlanta United FC
> **Austin*
> Boston: New England Revolution
> Chicago: Chicago Fire
> **Cleveland (or Cincinnati)*
> Columbus: Columbus Crew SC
> Dallas: FC Dallas
> Denver: Colorado Rapids
> **Detroit*
> Houston: Houston Dynamo
> Kansas City: Sporting Kansas City
> **Las Vegas*
> Los Angeles: Los Angeles FC, Los Angeles Galaxy
> Miami: Miami Beckham United
> Minneapolis: Minnesota United FC
> Montreal: Montreal Impact
> New York: New York City FC, New York Red Bulls
> Orlando: Orlando City SC
> Philadelphia: Philadelphia Union
> **Phoenix*
> Portland: Portland Timbers
> **Sacramento*
> Salt Lake City: Real Salt Lake
> **San Diego*
> San Francisco: San Jose Earthquakes
> Seattle: Seattle Sounders FC
> **Tampa*
> Toronto: Toronto FC
> Vancouver: Vancouver Whitecaps FC
> Washington: D.C. United


My dream one is slightly different. Unannounced teams in bold. 

WEST: 
Sporting Kansas City
Minnesota United
Seattle Sounders
Vancouver Whitecaps
Portland Timbers
San Jose Earthquakes
Los Angeles FC
Los Angeles Galaxy
Real Salt Lake
Colorado Rapids
FC Dallas
Houston Dynamo
*San Diego 
San Antonio OR Austin
Sacramento Republic
St Louis*

EAST: 

Montreal Impact
Toronto FC
New York City FC
New York Red Bulls
Chicago Fire
Columbus Crew
DC United
Philadelphia Union
New England Revs
Atlanta United
Orlando City
*Miami 
Detroit
Indy Eleven
Charlotte
Cincinnati FC
*


----------



## master_klon

5portsF4n said:


> My dream one is slightly different. Unannounced teams in bold.


Agree with this list, would like to see Phoenix in there though.


----------



## slipperydog

Comprehensive update on five MLS stadiums planned/under construction:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/...e-standing-zones-and-more-five-new-mls-venues


----------



## aquamaroon

^^ lot of great info in that article thanks for the link :cheers:


----------



## Guest

master_klon said:


> Agree with this list, would like to see Phoenix in there though.


Phoenix would be great, it's just that nothing we've seen up to now indicates it's a market where MLS could succeed. Then again, 9 months ago, Cincinnati was in that same basket. Lots of soccer fans, as evident by turnouts for Mexican national games, but we need to see a lot more.


----------



## aquamaroon

Yeah all good points, and another big issue with Phoenix would be the need to create a domed soccer stadium if a Phoenix MLS team was to have its own ground. (I don't really think you can play soccer at a high level in July in Phoenix outdoors.) However it would be much more expensive than your typical MLS specific stadium, and would be a heavy financial commitment. Barring that, a Phoenix MLS team would just have to settle for being the redheaded step-child at the Cardinals' University of Phoenix Stadium.
That being said I could imagine a Phoenix, or Las Vegas, MLS Stadium being one of the most impressive Soccer Stadiums in the MLS. I'd imagine an all ETFE roofed venue, something akin to New Zealand's Forsyth Barr Stadium, a real jewel of a stadium:


----------



## Chevy114

MLS plays a lot of games at night, it's not a big deal in my opinion, but I'm also from Florida where we have humidity to keep us sweaty instead of that dry heat that could be a silent killer.


----------



## Guest

Chevy114 said:


> MLS plays a lot of games at night, it's not a big deal in my opinion, but I'm also from Florida where we have humidity to keep us sweaty instead of that dry heat that could be a silent killer.


Climate aside, they have much bigger hurdles, like ownership/stadium option/potential fanbase. Tick those off and we can start talking about climate.


----------



## irving1903

5portsF4n said:


> WEST:
> 
> San Jose Earthquakes
> Los Angeles FC
> Los Angeles Galaxy
> FC Dallas
> Houston Dynamo
> *San Diego
> San Antonio OR Austin
> Sacramento Republic
> *


I don't get why people think it has to be one or the other, Austin and San Antonio could both be added and succeed. 

Both have demographics on their side, Austin may have the slight edge when it comes to potential corporate support; meanwhile San Antonio has the existing sports infrastructure. I see no reason why Texas couldn't have it's 4.



.....especially if California could get 5 :?


----------



## Guest

irving1903 said:


> I don't get why people think it has to be one or the other, Austin and San Antonio could both be added and succeed.
> 
> Both have demographics on their side, Austin may have the slight edge when it comes to potential corporate support; meanwhile San Antonio has the existing sports infrastructure. I see no reason why Texas couldn't have it's 4.
> 
> 
> 
> .....especially if California could get 5 :?


MLS are not awarding two franchises to cities that close to each other that are both outside the top 30 TV markets in the country. It will never happen (never is not a strong enough word). 

My bet is that, while MLS like what Austin brings (demographics plus lack of pro sports), it's SA's to lose based on larger pop and TV market. They will also know that, like the Spurs, people in Austin may follow the SA team.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Crew SC begin looking at new stadium options

http://www.massivereport.com/2016/10/18/13314402/crew-sc-begin-looking-at-new-stadium-options


Crew SC hires firm to assess demand for new stadium

http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2016/10/17/crew-sc-hires-firm-to-assess-demand-for-new.html


Plans for riverfront development resurrected in Chester

http://www.delcotimes.com/business/20161017/plans-for-riverfront-development-resurrected-in-chester


Group working to bring soccer to St. Louis looking for public input

http://www.kmov.com/story/33411927/...g-soccer-to-st-louis-looking-for-public-input


Groups approaching SLU for soccer stadium site

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_ae94bb89-56c4-508d-b92a-3001a511b778.html


----------



## Chevy114

I'll be the first to say Tampa doesn't deserve an MLS, not because of anything we did wrong or having any real issues. It's only because Orlando is an hour to an hour and a half away. Many people drive over to see games. Miami or Jacksonville would be my 2 guesses of cities that deserve MLS teams from FL.


----------



## Chevy114

As for Columbus, like I said on their stadium's page: They are like Camden Yards, they were the first of their kind built and everyone will question their relevance for today's stadium architecture designs. Doesn't mean either stadium is awful, just missing a few bells and whistles and possibly the wrong locations.


----------



## The Game Is Up

A group wants to build a pro soccer stadium near St. Louis University – here's how it might look

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_a369b9c6-ceb9-5e47-8311-051d30d2ce98.html


----------



## Chevy114

That is sexy and weird all the same time


----------



## aquamaroon

Ooh, that is one nice design :cheers:


----------



## slipperydog

Update on HEB Park in Edinburg, Texas



























https://twitter.com/RGVFC


----------



## bd popeye

5portsF4n said:


> My dream one is slightly different. Unannounced teams in bold.
> *
> ....................
> ....................
> 
> Cincinnati FC
> *


You mean FC Cincinnati


----------



## Guest

slipperydog said:


> Update on HEB Park in Edinburg, Texas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/RGVFC


The hell did this come from? Nice


----------



## The Game Is Up

St Louis Moves Closer to MLS Team

http://www.thebluetestament.com/2016/10/20/13314056/st-louis-moves-closer-to-mls-team


----------



## Chevy114

I hope this isn't insensitive, I don't mean it to be, but does St. Louis deserve a team or is this a pitty pick because they lost their NFL team? I truly want to know.


----------



## Guest

Chevy114 said:


> I hope this isn't insensitive, I don't mean it to be, but does St. Louis deserve a team or is this a pitty pick because they lost their NFL team? I truly want to know.


St Louis has long been touted as soccer city USA. Everyone keeps saying what an amazing market it would be for MLS. 

Ive yet to see anything that convinces me. Some cities are showing what theyre offering the right way, stl is all talk. 

This proposal is something, in that it is not nothing...but lots of boxes to tick before anything happens. 

But mls seem intent on it, so they need the ownership and stadium to come good. If they do, theyre a guaranteed expansion city. 

Losing the rams helps their cause, in thst it is one less team in the city, but it is by no means he reason stl is being pushed. Thst was happening long before the rams left.


----------



## GunnerJacket

bd popeye said:


> You mean FC Cincinnati


He's alive! ALIVE!!

What's shakin', Popeye? Actually enjoying life away from the internet for a spell? You know Big Brother doesn't like that! 



Chevy114 said:


> I hope this isn't insensitive, I don't mean it to be, but does St. Louis deserve a team or is this a pitty pick because they lost their NFL team? I truly want to know.


St. Louis was the big hub for US soccer loooooong ago, and remnants of that resonated back in the days of the original NASL, indoor soccer and so on. While their minor league support never matched what we've seen in the Pacific Northwest, they didn't have many rivals to help drive it forward at times during the lean years of US soccer. (I have a few St. Louis Steamers cards amidst my old MISL paraphernalia, I believe.)

My guess is that the league office is searching for geographic and demographic balance, and if they feel they're going to reach an optimal number of teams in the near future they don't want to leave out certain markets they feel can contribute to their TV appeal and their breaking through to the casual US sports fan. Plus, St. Louis could offer a rival to SKC and Chicago, the latter of which could use something else to jump start fan appeal. 

Keep in mind Orlando practically came out of nowhere and Atlanta is (on paper) exceeding expectations, so the hope is that MLS has achieved a status where the league brand can make most larger markets successful if the ownership and venue model is in place. If that's true then every large metro area is open for consideration, and St. Louis is among the bigger ones out there with any sense of ties to the US game.


----------



## bd popeye

GunnerJacket said:


> He's alive! ALIVE!!
> 
> What's shakin', Popeye? Actually enjoying life away from the internet for a spell? You know Big Brother doesn't like that!


Dang.. someboady made the Ramblin' Wreck a mod..nice!.

I've been around. I stopped posting in this forum for a short while because there was an edict that declared no photos of women can be posted. it's been clarified and it's a long story. enywho I've been back for a while just not in the stadium treads.


----------



## Chevy114

Thanks! I knew a lot of players on the national team have come from St. Louis, I just thought a city like that either would have already had an MLS team or there was something I wasn't seeing.


----------



## GunnerJacket

bd popeye said:


> Dang.. someboady made the Ramblin' Wreck a mod..nice!.


I got caught daydreaming while everyone else took one step back...



Chevy114 said:


> Thanks! I knew a lot of players on the national team have come from St. Louis, I just thought a city like that either would have already had an MLS team or there was something I wasn't seeing.


After MLS folded the 2 Florida franchises the edict went out that any new teams had to have a solid independent financial footing, either via a wealthy owner or proven business plan. Many cities you and I would've considered decent candidates were then set aside for lack of either or in belief MLS wouldn't make it. Now that times and conditions have changed at least the viability for a St. Louis, Phoenix and others is there.


----------



## ielag

Our annual update that the Krafts are super serious (believe it when we see it) about building an SSS in Boston.



> A Boston Globe report on Friday indicated that the New England Revolution are in early discussions about a potential soccer stadium in downtown Boston.
> 
> Business columnist Shirley Leung dedicated a column to the topic of a potential bayside soccer stadium in Dorchester on Boston's south side on the land once occupied by the Bayside Expo Center. The site is currently under the control of the University of Massachusetts, sitting adjacent to the UMass Boston campus.
> 
> The report, which includes comment from Massachusetts governor Charlie Baker and Boston mayor Marty Walsh, states that talks between all parties – including the Boston Teachers Union, whose headquarters are located next door to the site – are still in the early stages.
> 
> “The opportunity with respect to that could be really terrific,” Baker told Leung in reference to a soccer stadium in Dorchester. “It could be great for all the kids who play soccer.
> 
> “A facility like that could be used by kids and by UMass Boston and by the community at large,” he added. “If the rest of it could get worked out, I think it could be a plus.”
> 
> Mayor Walsh, who grew up in Dorchester, sees a potential stadium project as a chance to renovate Kosciuszko Circle, a famously traffic-choked junction located near the stadium site.
> 
> “It has been tough my whole life,” Walsh told Leung. “This would be an opportunity to improve the circle.”
> 
> “I think initially the community would have a lot of questions [about the stadium project] … the potential benefits would outweigh any potential burdens.”
> 
> The Revolution began play at the old Foxborough Stadium in 1996 before moving across the way into their current home, Gillette Stadium, in May 2002. They share the facility with the NFL's New England Patriots, also owned by the Kraft family.


http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/...h-boston-could-be-terrific-says-mass-governor


----------



## bd popeye

Yea Right..^^ see the first post of this thread.



> (believe it when we see it)


agreed ^^ 100%!

First post of this thread dated 17 July 2006...over 10 years ago.

* Soccer Stadiums of the USA and Canada*



> http://www.cityofboston.gov/news/default.aspx?ID=3225
> 
> Boston is honored and proud to be recruited by Major League Soccer to be the potential home for the New England Revolution,” said Mayor Thomas M. Menino. “This is a fantastic opportunity for our city and our neighborhoods, but it will require a throughout exploration of possible sites – we need to make sure this works for Boston residents.”
> Do you think there's any chance to get past NIMBY's in Boston ?


----------



## Chevy114

GunnerJacket said:


> I got caught daydreaming while everyone else took one step back...
> 
> After MLS folded the 2 Florida franchises the edict went out that any new teams had to have a solid independent financial footing, either via a wealthy owner or proven business plan. Many cities you and I would've considered decent candidates were then set aside for lack of either or in belief MLS wouldn't make it. Now that times and conditions have changed at least the viability for a St. Louis, Phoenix and others is there.


You know me I will never understand the MLS mindset, do you want mid level cities with few to no other sports compete with or large cities.


----------



## GunnerJacket

bd popeye said:


> First post of this thread dated 17 July 2006...over 10 years ago.


:applause:



Chevy114 said:


> You know me I will never understand the MLS mindset, do you want mid level cities with few to no other sports compete with or large cities.


I'd be lying if I said there was a formula and I knew what it was, but I think it is safe to say their preferences have evolved in order to adapt to their needs. It's been shaped by owner/investor demands, TV appeal, sponsor and market demands... With each taking turns as the priority based on the conditions of the time. The biggest thing to date has been the necessity to get the owner/venue combinations correct so that the team is poised to control their own schedule and revenues, so as to maximize their chance at a profit. If all the franchises can do that then the league can choose the franchises based on national media appeal.


----------



## Chevy114

I agree there is no formula, but with other sports it's kind of obvious which is annoying. The best example of confusion to me is the last expansion. You gave a mid market city with only 1 other pro sport a franchise the same year you gave New York a 2nd team. So on one hand Louisville, Omaha, and San Antonio should be excited, but on the other hand Detroit, Minn, and SF should be excited.


----------



## Guest

Chevy114 said:


> You know me I will never understand the MLS mindset, do you want mid level cities with few to no other sports compete with or large cities.


Strange question. 

MLS is basically in all the major cities, minus Detroit, Phoenix and Miami. Miami and Detroit are still likely to come online before the league finishes expansion. Phoenix is the only one that might never get a team. 

So my response is, why can't they be in both? The only difference is which mid-tier cities they go into to, and every league has a number of cities that they'd like to be in but aren't.


----------



## bd popeye

5portsF4n said:


> Strange question.
> 
> MLS is basically in all the major cities, minus Detroit, Phoenix and Miami. Miami and Detroit


And San Diego.population 1.3 Million with 3.3 million in the metro area. PLUS nearly three million right across the border in Mexico.


----------



## Nacre

It's hard for me to take you seriously when you are using Robert Kraft as your example of a great MLS owner.

As for the Cowboys, their early success under Jones was a product of Jimmy Johnson and the Hershel Walker trade. The Cowboys have done very well financially under Jones. But the NFL as a whole has seen huge financial growth over the past three decades. In an alternate universe where they kept Jimmy Johnson in 1994 and got a new owner instead they probably would have done even better.


----------



## slipperydog

An interesting interview with the president of USL after the announcement of Tampa and Ottawa. Looks like they are actively working towards Division 2 status and eventually see splitting into 3 conferences. Said they are in discussions with about 8 markets, and are hoping to make inroads in the Southeast and Southwest.

http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2016/10/28/usls-incredible-growth-continues-but-whats-next/


----------



## pesto

Nacre said:


> It's hard for me to take you seriously when you are using Robert Kraft as your example of a great MLS owner.
> 
> As for the Cowboys, their early success under Jones was a product of Jimmy Johnson and the Hershel Walker trade. The Cowboys have done very well financially under Jones. But the NFL as a whole has seen huge financial growth over the past three decades. In an alternate universe where they kept Jimmy Johnson in 1994 and got a new owner instead they probably would have done even better.


You couldn't be more wrong. Jerry didn't ride the wave; he made the wave. Seriously, check out the history of his dealings and litigation with the NFL (even before he became an owner) which made owners realize that a few old school "beers and brats" owners were holding them back from making 10's of billions. 

I'm not here to defend Kraft's history; even if everything he did was wrong he now appears to be making a move to put some money into branding and market development. Not sure if he will do it competently but some MLS owners are going to try to break into the big leagues.


----------



## Chevy114

pesto said:


> For sure it’s not just the size of the city you are in. But it helps. Fourteen of the 18 most valuable soccer sides are in London, Manchester, Madrid, Barcelona, Munich, Paris, Rome and Milan, which are all the largest or second largest cities in their countries. Two others are in the Ruhr industrial heartland which has about 11 million people. The others are in Liverpool and Turin.
> 
> But the rub really comes when you work out profit sharing. You may have Kraft come in and say “this week I worked on a deal with China for US/China matches in 10 key Asian cities, met with the President and other sports owners re her initiative to bring health and fitness to American youth, and talked with the networks about what games they want to carry for the next 5 years; what have you guys been doing?"
> 
> “Well, we’re going to have special Oompah, Oompah Tuesdays during October where you can get 6 mini-brats for $1 with any beer order; and November we’re bringing in Mabel’s Swinging Sixties Banjo Band to entertain at half-time, so we’re pretty excited.”
> 
> You can see how there could be tension over how to split media revenues.


The problem is that we aren't Europe. We don't even have regulation. If Chicago wants to keep putting out a crappy product there is nothing to stop them. The teams you named have a fire under their butt to be good every year. There may or may not be a connection to Chicago being 19 out of 20 for attendance and last or close to last over the past 3 years. 

We also don't have the revenue those teams do. So Real Madrid whose revenue is worth 700 million can probably get better talent than MLS teams worth 300 Million or less. So you need interested and knowledgeable fans to cheer on these mediocre teams, which is something America isn't used to since we have the best players in the world in every other sport.

To me for this sport to be taken serious you need tv time and you need filled stadiums. They are doing both the best that they can, but as we've seen that can go away faster than it took to build it up. I'm just looking out for MLS, but at the same time I want fans around the country at least one pro sport to see live.


----------



## Chevy114

pesto said:


> You couldn't be more wrong. Jerry didn't ride the wave; he made the wave. Seriously, check out the history of his dealings and litigation with the NFL (even before he became an owner) which made owners realize that a few old school "beers and brats" owners were holding them back from making 10's of billions.
> 
> I'm not here to defend Kraft's history; even if everything he did was wrong he now appears to be making a move to put some money into branding and market development. Not sure if he will do it competently but some MLS owners are going to try to break into the big leagues.


Yeah, but it's real easy to take a good product that is thriving and come in and exploit it. You can't compare the NFL to MLS because it's not a thriving sport, it's a good sport that is at a crossroads. We have gone without soccer before and we can do it again if we have to, unlike football.


----------



## MarkJF

Still loving this thread. 



Nacre said:


> It takes decades to build a fanbase.


It doesn't you know, soccer is littered with examples of quick growth for a variety of reasons. My team has gone from averaging 7/8k to over 18k in 8 years and we are now in a division* lower*! RB Leipzig have gone from 2k to 40k sell outs in 7 years! But, yep, latent support has to be there.



pesto said:


> For sure it’s not just the size of the city you are in. But it helps. Fourteen of the 18 most valuable soccer sides are in London, Manchester, Madrid, Barcelona, Munich, Paris, Rome and Milan, which are all the largest or second largest cities in their countries.


I don't think Manchester makes the top 5 biggest Cities in the UK if we are talking about it as a City not a metropolitan area? All PL clubs are some of the richest in the world, but some are small cities, some are towns. Burnley (pop 70k), a low wage, old Lancashire mill town can blow Roma/Milan out of the water on wages if it wishes to do so 



Chevy114 said:


> There is no guarantee that Soccer is a big city only sport. Soccer is a unique nitch sport, still in 2016 and has a different kind of fan.


You've got it! With respect to him, Pesto never will. For a soccer fan it's not about money or winning, that is as alien to us as somebody banging on about relegation is to you. I went to the best game I've seen in years last week, it was a draw............


----------



## MarkJF

GunnerJacket said:


> We can theorize all we want but the bottom line is this:
> 
> *MLS Attendance - 2000*
> 
> 13,756 - Avg.
> 34.4% - Games <10k
> 
> 
> *MLS Attendance - 2016*
> 
> 21,692 - Avg.
> _0.0% - games <10k
> 
> 
> This despite doubling the number of teams, so something is obviously going right. For those of us who've been around long enough to appreciate the original NASL these are veritable Utopian conditions, so keep doing what we're doing is the order of the day. I say, anyway.


An the CSL spent what? $400 on foreign players this season to average just 22k. It'll succeed because the state wants it to, but with tickets being given away and allegations of match fixing, it has no integrity.


----------



## GunnerJacket

*Note to all: * As there's limited opportunities to discuss actual soccer stadiums in the US we can allow discussions like these, but keep the personal interjections out of your comments. You can disagree with someone without being insulting. _Comment about the topic, not the person._ Thanks.
- - - - - 



slipperydog said:


> An interesting interview with the president of USL after the announcement of Tampa and Ottawa. Looks like they are actively working towards Division 2 status and eventually see splitting into 3 conferences. Said they are in discussions with about 8 markets, and are hoping to make inroads in the Southeast and Southwest.
> 
> http://soccer.nbcsports.com/2016/10/28/usls-incredible-growth-continues-but-whats-next/


There are still plenty of concerns with USL as an organization but they've certainly done right by themselves. After the schism that created NASL 2.0 many presumed this would be the lot that would wither and die, but instead they've stuck to their guns, stayed within budgets and been together as a league. As a result they appear to have the sensible gameplan for growth and are executing it very well. 

I'm not sure every individual team is up to D2 standards at the moment but I wouldn't be surprised if they could get there. 



Chevy114 said:


> The problem is that we aren't Europe. We don't even have regulation.


R*eleg*ation. Not being a smart alec, I'm just making sure we're talking the right thing.



MarkJF said:


> It doesn't you know, soccer is littered with examples of quick growth for a variety of reasons. My team has gone from averaging 7/8k to over 18k in 8 years and we are now in a division* lower*! RB Leipzig have gone from 2k to 40k sell outs in 7 years! But, yep, latent support has to be there.


The US IS going to be a different animal in this regard, however, because of spending caps and other measures to foster parity. What CFG is doing at NYCFC is about the extent of overnight transformations capable through outside investment, otherwise the only other dramatic changes occur from first-time novelty discoveries like Orlando or FC Cincy. 

The trick will be ensuring that we get fair crowds to the teams that a) have been consistently struggling and b) have smaller markets that do impact the bottom line through lower local revenues. We don't need these teams to draw 22k+, but it would be nice if they could get and stay over the 95% of capacity threshold. 



MarkJF said:


> An the CSL spent what? $400 on foreign players this season to average just 22k. It'll succeed because the state wants it to, but with tickets being given away and allegations of match fixing, it has no integrity.


I wouldn't go so far as to call it devoid of integrity, even if it is a subsidized operation. Plus they're averaging closer to 26k last I checked. The biggest difference is that they're operating with fewer teams in far fewer cities, with about 3/4 of the league in a handful of Chicago-to-NYC sized metro areas. Plus China doesn't have the volume of other team sports with which to compete for consumer dollars.


----------



## Nacre

MarkJF said:


> It doesn't you know, soccer is littered with examples of quick growth for a variety of reasons. My team has gone from averaging 7/8k to over 18k in 8 years and we are now in a division* lower*! RB Leipzig have gone from 2k to 40k sell outs in 7 years! But, yep, latent support has to be there.


We are not talking about a few thousand season ticket holders, but audiences of a million people watching on television like the other major league sports in North America have. It is insane to expect MLS to have the same television ratings as the NFL or NBA.

MLS is already doing very well in local support and gate revenue. Where it falls down is in national support. Convincing people in Peoria to watch the Chicago Fire and townsfolk in Harrisburg to become fans of DC United will take a long time.


----------



## Guest

MarkJF said:


> It doesn't you know, soccer is littered with examples of quick growth for a variety of reasons. My team has gone from averaging 7/8k to over 18k in 8 years and we are now in a division* lower*! RB Leipzig have gone from 2k to 40k sell outs in 7 years! But, yep, latent support has to be there.
> 
> I don't think Manchester makes the top 5 biggest Cities in the UK if we are talking about it as a City not a metropolitan area? All PL clubs are some of the richest in the world, but some are small cities, some are towns. Burnley (pop 70k), a low wage, old Lancashire mill town can blow Roma/Milan out of the water on wages if it wishes to do so


And [insert MLS team] that went from having attendances of 0 to 20,000+ overnight. Show me another imported sport that does that. It doesn't exist. 

Why wouldn't we use metropolitan areas? Metropolitan areas often include suburbs which are just 30 minutes or an hour away, of course these would make up part of the potential attendance base. The greater Manchester metropolitan area is the second largest in the UK. 

But in countries where a sport dominates, it doesn't really matter where they're based. Manchester United could be from a Green Bay type of town, and it wouldn't matter. It they won as much as they won, and expanded their global fanbase as much as they have, they'd still be the behemoth they are, regardless of town size. 

In any case, the reason why they can it's easy for soccer clubs in Europe to go from nothing to something substantial is because of the relevance of the sport. 

Considering the relative standing of the sport in the US, it's actually incredibly impressive that MLS can bring on new franchises that start from a 20k+ foundation from the get-go.


----------



## bd popeye

> Considering the relative standing of the sport in the US, it's actually incredibly impressive that MLS can bring on new franchises that start from a 20k+ foundation from the get-go.


I think I know a club that could start off in the MLS and easily start off with a 20K plus average..can you say *FC CINCINNATI*..??!!

*FC CINCINNATI* averaged 17,296 a match this season in a third tier league and out drew in average attendance FIVE MLS clubs.

* FC Cincinnati Is Doing Something Amazing — And MLS Has Noticed....| CBS New York*


----------



## pesto

Chevy114 said:


> The problem is that we aren't Europe. We don't even have regulation. If Chicago wants to keep putting out a crappy product there is nothing to stop them. The teams you named have a fire under their butt to be good every year. There may or may not be a connection to Chicago being 19 out of 20 for attendance and last or close to last over the past 3 years.
> 
> We also don't have the revenue those teams do. So Real Madrid whose revenue is worth 700 million can probably get better talent than MLS teams worth 300 Million or less. So you need interested and knowledgeable fans to cheer on these mediocre teams, which is something America isn't used to since we have the best players in the world in every other sport.
> 
> To me for this sport to be taken serious you need tv time and you need filled stadiums. They are doing both the best that they can, but as we've seen that can go away faster than it took to build it up. I'm just looking out for MLS, but at the same time I want fans around the country at least one pro sport to see live.


A lot of good points. 

Generally, the spending comes first, then the revenues. Jerry Jones point was that if you show by your public actions that you are committed to getting the very best you will attract hearts (and wallets) early on and make the higher salaries an acceptable expense. 

Filling stadiums is good as long as you understand that cities developing brands outside their area use them as part of the brand development, not because they are the critical revenue stream. 

As for TV time, that comes along when you have adequately built the brand (and for sure sometimes it doesn't happen; that's how capitalism works). But it's not going to come from airing, say, Columbus vs. Portland, without a lot of money being put into branding.

I think everyone understands this; the issue now is how to separate out the owners that don't spend for the good of the league and make sure they don't get a free ride from those spending heavily.


----------



## pesto

MarkJF said:


> Still loving this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't you know, soccer is littered with examples of quick growth for a variety of reasons. My team has gone from averaging 7/8k to over 18k in 8 years and we are now in a division* lower*! RB Leipzig have gone from 2k to 40k sell outs in 7 years! But, yep, latent support has to be there.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think Manchester makes the top 5 biggest Cities in the UK if we are talking about it as a City not a metropolitan area? All PL clubs are some of the richest in the world, but some are small cities, some are towns. Burnley (pop 70k), a low wage, old Lancashire mill town can blow Roma/Milan out of the water on wages if it wishes to do so
> 
> 
> 
> You've got it! With respect to him, Pesto never will. For a soccer fan it's not about money or winning, that is as alien to us as somebody banging on about relegation is to you. I went to the best game I've seen in years last week, it was a draw............


Well, thanks for the respect. Or at least the assertion of it. :lol:

Ok, the Manchester metro is only the 3rd largest in England. But the point here is that practically all the top value teams are in large cities with significant international recognition. This gives them a leg up on building brand recognition.

Soccer is a niche sport? We do all recognize that management of the most valuable sides wear suits and spend their days talking to media execs, VP’s of marketing for Fortune 500 companies and $1000 an hour lawyers, right? Not selling tickets and setting up the grills around the stands. 

Not sure what Burnley is worth but doubt it’s as much as Roma. But that seems neither here nor there; if their ownership and fans are happy with the club as it is, more power to them.


----------



## MarkJF

5portsF4n said:


> And [insert MLS team] that went from having attendances of 0 to 20,000+ overnight. Show me another imported sport that does that. It doesn't exist.
> 
> Why wouldn't we use metropolitan areas? Metropolitan areas often include suburbs which are just 30 minutes or an hour away, of course these would make up part of the potential attendance base. The greater Manchester metropolitan area is the second largest in the UK.
> 
> But in countries where a sport dominates, it doesn't really matter where they're based. Manchester United could be from a Green Bay type of town, and it wouldn't matter. It they won as much as they won, and expanded their global fanbase as much as they have, they'd still be the behemoth they are, regardless of town size.
> 
> In any case, the reason why they can it's easy for soccer clubs in Europe to go from nothing to something substantial is because of the relevance of the sport.
> 
> Considering the relative standing of the sport in the US, it's actually incredibly impressive that MLS can bring on new franchises that start from a 20k+ foundation from the get-go.


As I am long term impartial MLS supporter I am not sure what you have issue with? It IS easy to build support rapidly IF the latent support is there, regardless of the sport or location.

I don't think you should use metro areas in the UK as a claim to "size", Manchester is nowhere near as big as the name Manchester United might make you think it is. It's metro areas include at least 7 other professional soccer clubs and many more semi-pro ones. That is, these outlying metro areas (Separate towns, large & small) have their own clubs.


----------



## MarkJF

Nacre said:


> MLS is already doing very well in local support and gate revenue. Where it falls down is in national support*. Convincing people in Peoria to watch the Chicago Fire and townsfolk in Harrisburg to become fans of DC United will take a long time.*


Fair enough, but 95%+ of soccer is parochial, that is in it's long term (generational) appeal. Local, solid & dependable support. 

We can't all be fans of an uber clubs and even in mega bucks UK, the followers of smaller (outside PL) clubs outnumber the PL clubs attendances, every Saturday of every season. Therein lies it's strength.


----------



## Guest

MarkJF said:


> I don't think you should use metro areas in the UK as a claim to "size", Manchester is nowhere near as big as the name Manchester United might make you think it is. It's metro areas include at least 7 other professional soccer clubs and many more semi-pro ones. That is, these outlying metro areas (Separate towns, large & small) have their own clubs.


I'm not oblivious to that. I'm fairly up to date with the geography of the UK. 

I'm also fairly confident that Manchester United draw fans from the entire metropolitan area of Manchester, and beyond. 

Apart from City, the only other team of note in the metropolitan area is Bolton. If you can find another one that averages over 5,000, I'm all ears. Rochdale/Stokcksport/Oldham etc are not clubs that take fans away from United or City. In fact, I suspect most supporters of those clubs (and others in the region) support their local team plus one of United or City.


----------



## Chevy114

Do you guys think that Americans do a better job of accepting the level of talent we have in American Soccer? The second the talent level starts to drop in any other American sport you hear the fans complain about it, but I rarely hear MLS fans say those things. 

Do you also think soccer in America gets a raw deal on how good MLS actually is compared to how its still talked about? I have a co-worker who is a huge Euro Soccer fan, but he said he caught an OC game on tv the other week and was impressed at the level of talent he saw and was expecting a whole lot worse.


----------



## pesto

MarkJF said:


> As I am long term impartial MLS supporter I am not sure what you have issue with? It IS easy to build support rapidly IF the latent support is there, regardless of the sport or location.
> 
> I don't think you should use metro areas in the UK as a claim to "size", Manchester is nowhere near as big as the name Manchester United might make you think it is. It's metro areas include at least 7 other professional soccer clubs and many more semi-pro ones. That is, these outlying metro areas (Separate towns, large & small) have their own clubs.



And Man U doesn't even play in Manchester, as is often noted by City supporters. So I wouldn't fixate on formal city limits. 

Otherwise, your point keeps escaping me. Paris proper is not very big but has an enormous metro area. Ditto for the Ruhr, where Gelsenkirchen is not big but Schalke is and there are a number of other clubs in the area. Barcelona, Madrid, etc., have many clubs at different levels as well; some go for major international status and revenues, some don't (e.g., Espanyol). 

Each of these areas is a HUGE aggregation of people with allegiances to one particular club and smaller allegiances to other clubs. 

By contrast, there are virtually NO very valuable clubs in areas with small amounts of people. Which is OK; most of these will do just fine and bring pride and excitement to the their local followings.


----------



## Guest

No valuable clubs relative to the biggest, true. But broadcast rights have pushed tiny teams in England into the mid tier, which is why there's so much investment in England. Clubs like Stoke have made their way into the top 30 most valuable teams purely on broadcast rights.


----------



## Guest

Portland info dump http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/...ously-optimistic-about-stadium-expansion-plan

Targetting 25,000 capacity, which is up 4,000 (season ticket waiting list is 12,000)
Wouldnt trade location for anything
Upgrade would cost $50m, private financing


----------



## BoulderGrad

5portsF4n said:


> Portland info dump http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/...ously-optimistic-about-stadium-expansion-plan
> 
> Targetting 25,000 capacity, which is up 4,000 (season ticket waiting list is 12,000)
> Wouldnt trade location for anything
> Upgrade would cost $50m, private financing


He also specifically said the expansion would be on the East side of the stadium where the Key Bank Club is now, with the idea of continuing the roof line all the way around and still allowing some visibility from the street outside the stadium.

I would hope its to do a suite stack set up on stilts to allow for the view from the street, and then removing the suite stack in the corner North West corner and making a complete seating bowl.


----------



## weava

Chevy114 said:


> Do you guys think that Americans do a better job of accepting the level of talent we have in American Soccer? *The second the talent level starts to drop in any other American sport you hear the fans complain about it, but I rarely hear MLS fans say those things. *
> 
> Do you also think soccer in America gets a raw deal on how good MLS actually is compared to how its still talked about? I have a co-worker who is a huge Euro Soccer fan, but he said he caught an OC game on tv the other week and was impressed at the level of talent he saw and was expecting a whole lot worse.


Say at the QB position in football, losing a star quarterback is very noticible and obviously the fans will complain when the new QB isn't as good and isn't getting results.

But overall, I think American sports fans in general don't have a problem watching lower tier talent. Just look at college sports, it's clearly a level below the pros and the top 25 teams are some of the highest drawing teams in the world, and even among the college ranks, you have teams that aren't even in the top 50 teams in football drawing 40,000 to games, and teams outside the top 50 in basketball still drawing 5-10,000 per game. 

Plus we have huge minor league systems in baseball and hockey that are a much lower quality than the top leagues and it's not uncommon for those teams to draw 5-10,000/game in smaller cities and those leagues draw millions in attendance every year.


----------



## weava

5portsF4n said:


> And [insert MLS team] that went from having attendances of 0 to 20,000+ overnight. *Show me another imported sport that does that. It doesn't exist. *


NFL-Europe is probably the best example I can think of. Within a few years there were teams drawing over 30k. Sadly the NFL canned the league in favor of the London games.

Basketball has had big growth in China and Europe. I'd say having basketball teams go from 0 to 10,000 game in Europe/China is comparable to MLS's growth. Also, they have some teams with salaries twice that of the highest MLS teams.

Also, Pro baseball in South Korea can be a similar example. Korea only has 1 pro baseball team older than 1982 so it's only a decade older than MLS and yet baseball has become a mainstream sport in Korea.


----------



## Chevy114

weava said:


> Say at the QB position in football, losing a star quarterback is very noticible and obviously the fans will complain when the new QB isn't as good and isn't getting results.
> 
> But overall, I think American sports fans in general don't have a problem watching lower tier talent. Just look at college sports, it's clearly a level below the pros and the top 25 teams are some of the highest drawing teams in the world, and even among the college ranks, you have teams that aren't even in the top 50 teams in football drawing 40,000 to games, and teams outside the top 50 in basketball still drawing 5-10,000 per game.
> 
> Plus we have huge minor league systems in baseball and hockey that are a much lower quality than the top leagues and it's not uncommon for those teams to draw 5-10,000/game in smaller cities and those leagues draw millions in attendance every year.


I actually like college more than the NFL, I think it's a little more innovative. I think the Minor league love also helps, I know I enjoy them myself. I just think you have to do more to promote minor league sports like hot dog eating contests between innings. I'm glad America likes all levels of sports though, it really helps us enjoy MLS!


----------



## pesto

Apropos of nothing in particular, I put together this list of cities with two or more teams valued over 1B and the total value of such teams. Doesn’t really have much to do with big city vs. small city, but it may be of interest to those following sports business. All numbers in $US per Forbes (I don’t defend their methods); Raiders have to be added if they move to LA.

I have a complete table with values of each team but don't know how to post it.

NY 15.5 
LA 11.7 
Chi 8.1
Bos 7.6
SF Bay 6.9
Dallas 5.4
Manch 5.2
Lond 4.7
DC 4.2


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## Chevy114

I would screen shot your picture and upload it to a photo sharing site like photobucket and then post the link

P.S. the redskins always shock me at how many fans they have.


----------



## Guest

weava said:


> NFL-Europe is probably the best example I can think of. Within a few years there were teams drawing over 30k. Sadly the NFL canned the league in favor of the London games.
> 
> Basketball has had big growth in China and Europe. I'd say having basketball teams go from 0 to 10,000 game in Europe/China is comparable to MLS's growth. Also, they have some teams with salaries twice that of the highest MLS teams.
> 
> Also, Pro baseball in South Korea can be a similar example. Korea only has 1 pro baseball team older than 1982 so it's only a decade older than MLS and yet baseball has become a mainstream sport in Korea.


Do you have any idea how long basketball goes back in Europe? Not to mention most of the successful ones are offshoots of their soccer teams. 

Euroleague averages 6-8,000. Maybe in the world of basketball that's a success. In my world, it's anything but. 

And please, enlighten us with the attendance figures for China's basketball league. (Hint: it's tiny)


----------



## bd popeye

5portsF4n said:


> And please, enlighten us with the attendance figures for China's basketball league. (Hint: it's tiny)


Tiny is correct. According to wiki the average attendance is 4,296.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attendance_figures_at_domestic_professional_sports_leagues


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## pesto

I think there are people in this discussion trying to cobble together universal truths out of a very mixed bag of actual results. Perhaps there are a number of results that are within the range of possibilities?


----------



## weava

5portsF4n said:


> Do you have any idea how long basketball goes back in Europe? Not to mention most of the successful ones are offshoots of their soccer teams.
> 
> Euroleague averages 6-8,000. Maybe in the world of basketball that's a success. In my world, it's anything but.
> 
> And please, enlighten us with the attendance figures for China's basketball league. (Hint: it's tiny)


I was just adding to the conversation with a few other examples. China's numbers on wiki are 5+ years old but from looking around it seems that have some teams pulling decent numbers, the sport has really grown in popularity since Yoa Ming went to the NBA.

7 Euroleague teams average over 10k game, seems successful to me. 

Plus if you want to say that US soccer went from 0-20k overnight while writing off the other leagues because it doesn't fit your narrative, then you are ignoring the 1970s-1980s. NASL averaged over 10k/game every year from 1976-1984. So really, US soccer has gone from 10k to 20k/game over a 40 year period.


----------



## Chevy114

I have a similar but different question. Do you think new cities will reap the benefits of all the hard work that some cities put in 20, 30, or even 40 years of soccer? 

So lets say if Louisville comes in and starts averaging 20k a season in MLS, does that prove that soccer has made it or is that just a random city getting lucky? I can't tell. 

Then again does it even matter, should just be happy or should I feel bad that all this hard work goes unappreciated by new teams and fans?


----------



## pesto

Chevy114 said:


> I have a similar but different question. Do you think new cities will reap the benefits of all the hard work that some cities put in 20, 30, or even 40 years of soccer?
> 
> So lets say if Louisville comes in and starts averaging 20k a season in MLS, does that prove that soccer has made it or is that just a random city getting lucky? I can't tell.
> 
> Then again does it even matter, should just be happy or should I feel bad that all this hard work goes unappreciated by new teams and fans?


Excellent questions; now you are talking like a potential investor or commissioner. 

In theory, the league (existing owners) will try to charge new entrants for the intangibles that they have already developed with respect to his location. 

The trickier issue is how to properly compensate owners that have spent money building their brand while others have lounged about reaping the benefits. You can let the league "tax" them or incur some costs directly; or adjust revenues (e.g., allocate some revenues from road games to the visiting team when they have spent to develop their brands). But this isn't easy.


----------



## Chevy114

pesto said:


> Excellent questions; now you are talking like a potential investor or commissioner.
> 
> In theory, the league (existing owners) will try to charge new entrants for the intangibles that they have already developed with respect to his location.
> 
> The trickier issue is how to properly compensate owners that have spent money building their brand while others have lounged about reaping the benefits. You can let the league "tax" them or incur some costs directly; or adjust revenues (e.g., allocate some revenues from road games to the visiting team when they have spent to develop their brands). But this isn't easy.


So are you suggesting almost like an appearance fee? Such as if a big name teams comes to your city to play you, you have to pay them? 

If so, I agree that it will be a hard one to pull off. I think you just keep it as is, because there is no way to prove what will happen with a city. Some new cities might succeed win or lose for the next 100 years and some cities might not care no matter what is going on with the team or who they are playing. 

I also don't think a team should be penalized for just now getting a team. St. Louis as we keep pointing out has a rich soccer history and wanted a team right away, but was never granted one. Why should they pay a fine for finally get respect if they get a team.


----------



## The Game Is Up

FC Cincinnati top candidate for MLS expansion, blog says

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinna...ati-top-candidate-for-mls-expansion-blog.html


MLS Expansion Update: St Louis, Cincinnati, Las Vegas, Miami, Charlotte, Sacramento, Atlanta and Minnesota

http://www.thebluetestament.com/201...st-louis-cincinnati-las-vegas-miami-charlotte


----------



## JJG

The Game Is Up said:


> FC Cincinnati top candidate for MLS expansion, blog says
> 
> http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinna...ati-top-candidate-for-mls-expansion-blog.html
> 
> 
> MLS Expansion Update: St Louis, Cincinnati, Las Vegas, Miami, Charlotte, Sacramento, Atlanta and Minnesota
> 
> http://www.thebluetestament.com/201...st-louis-cincinnati-las-vegas-miami-charlotte


That's a shocker... 

And San Antonio is now off the list?


----------



## aquamaroon

I don't know, seeing the kinds of crowds that FC Cincinnati were drawing makes them a no brainer for the MLS in my opinion.


----------



## Guest

The Game Is Up said:


> FC Cincinnati top candidate for MLS expansion, blog says
> 
> http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinna...ati-top-candidate-for-mls-expansion-blog.html
> 
> 
> MLS Expansion Update: St Louis, Cincinnati, Las Vegas, Miami, Charlotte, Sacramento, Atlanta and Minnesota
> 
> http://www.thebluetestament.com/201...st-louis-cincinnati-las-vegas-miami-charlotte


"Blog" being the operative word.


----------



## BoulderGrad

JJG said:


> That's a shocker...
> 
> And San Antonio is now off the list?





5portsF4n said:


> "Blog" being the operative word.


Indeed. Slow news day when "Blogger that doesn't really have much insider info or involvement with the process says he thinks this is maybe how things will go" makes a headline.

Lets see if I can get a headline with some idle speculation:

So we get Atlanta and Minnesota this coming season to get them to 22. Atlanta in the shiny new Mercedes Benz stadium (after its completed and a season in a temp venue) and Minnesota in their own shiny new SSS (after its completed and a season in a temp venue).

Speaking of venues, Orlando City gets to start in their own venue. Yay!

LAFC join in 2018 to get them to 23. They'll be in their shiny new expo park stadium which might actually, possibly be complete when they start their season. That'll be a refreshing change from teams playing in temp venues or spending the first half of the season on the road.

DC finally gets their own home! yay! (maybe. Will see if there are any further issues popping up)

If the news is to be believe, 24 will FINALLY be Miami (likely in 2019). And they juuuust might be in their overtown stadium. I'm more excited for them to have it finished just so we can stop hearing about it. If they have further delays with the stadium, I could see them playing at either FIU or temporarily at Hard Rock Stadium (not permanently as has been shot down several times, but it would be a cool soccer venue). 

If I were a bettin' man, I'd say 25 and 26 were likely to be Sacramento and Cincy. Sacramento has been chomping at the bit for a while and just need the go ahead (from my limited media perusing), and Cincy doesn't have to go through the bother of building a new stadium if they just stick with their current home that seems to work very well for them. If I had to put a year on it, say 2022 to absorb some of the expansion losses from LA and Miami.

27 and 28, I think will likely be picked from St Louis, Detroit, San Antonio, or San Diego. Lots of interest in those markets, various stages of interest from owners, and various stages of progress on a stadium. This'll be somewhere around... 2024?

29 to 32 will be the remaining markets from that list, and throw in Phoenix, Indianapolis, Nashville, aaaaannnnnnd Vegas? Getting 4 more franchises would probably easily take us to 2030. 

That would cover every major media market in the US and 32 is a good stopping point for US sports leagues. At this point, MLS would hopefully be amongst the big leagues of the world, overtaking LigaMX, Serie A, etc. 

Oh, and at this point, New England would finally get their own stadium.


----------



## Juanpabloangel

They would need to beef up the coaching and youth set up, to allow for enough footballers to come through... with all the competitiveness in the US sporting landscape... the best of this is that all of these 32 teams permanently establish themselves and we don't see the wandering franchise like in other US sports. Not trying to compete with other sports by making the stadia too big and just having a successful competition. The next world cup in the USA will be enormous... this time the fans will understand what is actually happening.


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> "Blog" being the operative word.


My favorite part is when this Kansas City-based writer begins his discussion of St. Louis with "_What better place to start than with our neighbors to the West_." :cripes:


----------



## gazzaa2

BoulderGrad said:


> Oh, and at this point, New England would finally get their own stadium.


Now you're just being silly.


----------



## BlazerBlaze

GunnerJacket said:


> My favorite part is when this Kansas City-based writer begins his discussion of St. Louis with "_What better place to start than with our neighbors to the West_." :cripes:


That pretty much summarizes my 2 months there.


----------



## flashman

BoulderGrad said:


> Indeed. Slow news day when "Blogger that doesn't really have much insider info or involvement with the process says he thinks this is maybe how things will go" makes a headline.
> 
> Lets see if I can get a headline with some idle speculation:
> 
> So we get Atlanta and Minnesota this coming season to get them to 22. Atlanta in the shiny new Mercedes Benz stadium (after its completed and a season in a temp venue) and Minnesota in their own shiny new SSS (after its completed and a season in a temp venue).
> 
> Speaking of venues, Orlando City gets to start in their own venue. Yay!
> 
> LAFC join in 2018 to get them to 23. They'll be in their shiny new expo park stadium which might actually, possibly be complete when they start their season. That'll be a refreshing change from teams playing in temp venues or spending the first half of the season on the road.
> 
> DC finally gets their own home! yay! (maybe. Will see if there are any further issues popping up)
> 
> If the news is to be believe, 24 will FINALLY be Miami (likely in 2019). And they juuuust might be in their overtown stadium. I'm more excited for them to have it finished just so we can stop hearing about it. If they have further delays with the stadium, I could see them playing at either FIU or temporarily at Hard Rock Stadium (not permanently as has been shot down several times, but it would be a cool soccer venue).
> 
> If I were a bettin' man, I'd say 25 and 26 were likely to be Sacramento and Cincy. Sacramento has been chomping at the bit for a while and just need the go ahead (from my limited media perusing), and Cincy doesn't have to go through the bother of building a new stadium if they just stick with their current home that seems to work very well for them. If I had to put a year on it, say 2022 to absorb some of the expansion losses from LA and Miami.
> 
> 27 and 28, I think will likely be picked from St Louis, Detroit, San Antonio, or San Diego. Lots of interest in those markets, various stages of interest from owners, and various stages of progress on a stadium. This'll be somewhere around... 2024?
> 
> 29 to 32 will be the remaining markets from that list, and throw in Phoenix, Indianapolis, Nashville, aaaaannnnnnd Vegas? Getting 4 more franchises would probably easily take us to 2030.
> 
> That would cover every major media market in the US and 32 is a good stopping point for US sports leagues. At this point, MLS would hopefully be amongst the big leagues of the world, overtaking LigaMX, Serie A, etc.
> 
> Oh, and at this point, New England would finally get their own stadium.


Just spent some time in Detroit and totally shocked at the interest there for MLS. Heard some strong opinions in favor of a team and the possibility of a new stadium joining the other downtown venues to keep pushing Detroit's downtown revival. 

Only time I've been more shocked about people expressing their MLS interest was in Charlotte, of all places. Never connected NC with MLS, then learn that NASCAR's Dale Earnhardt Jr. , of all people, likes the sport having played midfielder on a high school team.

I wonder if in all this well-thought-out forecasting a fourth Canadian franchise might be a possibility. A second western franchise - Calgary or Edmonton - would balance out the Canadian content. Don Garber has also been very encouraging about adding Ottawa, the nation's capital.


----------



## BoulderGrad

flashman said:


> Just spent some time in Detroit and totally shocked at the interest there for MLS. Heard some strong opinions in favor of a team and the possibility of a new stadium joining the other downtown venues to keep pushing Detroit's downtown revival.
> 
> Only time I've been more shocked about people expressing their MLS interest was in Charlotte, of all places. Never connected NC with MLS, then learn that NASCAR's Dale Earnhardt Jr. , of all people, likes the sport having played midfielder on a high school team.
> 
> I wonder if in all this well-thought-out forecasting a fourth Canadian franchise might be a possibility. A second western franchise - Calgary or Edmonton - would balance out the Canadian content. Don Garber has also been very encouraging about adding Ottawa, the nation's capital.


I tend to be wary of touting a stadium as a revitalizer. But in the case of Detroit, I think an MLS stadium would be much better for the city than a jail downtown for the general attitude in and around the city. Hoping it goes through without the city getting the shaft on paying for it.

Forgot to include Charlotte on my list. They would definitely be up there. I know folks haven't been fans of teams playing in NFL stadiums since MLS 1.0 and the situation the Revs are stuck in, but BofA stadium is right downtown and is nicely set up for soccer. Also the Sounders, Whitecaps, and AtlUtd have provided a nice blue print for how to make it work. If the Panthers owners got involved to ensure the financials of playing at BofA were favorable, maybe it might just work? Same thought for a potential Phoenix franchise. Any top flight team there would surely want a dome to cope with MLS's summer schedule, which puts the price tag way up on a SSS. Perhaps the Cardinals get involved an a team plays out of a tarped off U of Phoenix stadium? Of course the Revs also show the pitfalls of such an arrangement.

Unfortunately I don't see another Canadian franchise at the MLS level. The markets are too small compared to whats still available in the US. I think the Canadian PL is doomed to failure, and I'd rather see the remaining markets get folded into a new US 2nd division. Move the reserve teams and very small market teams to a 3rd division and move the stronger markets (Louisville, NYCosmos, Ottawa, etc) to a new 2nd divison.


----------



## Guest

flashman said:


> I wonder if in all this well-thought-out forecasting a fourth Canadian franchise might be a possibility. A second western franchise - Calgary or Edmonton - would balance out the Canadian content. Don Garber has also been very encouraging about adding Ottawa, the nation's capital.


Garber has literally said the opposite to that. He's on record as saying that he feels expansion in Canada is done, as they've got the three major markets.


----------



## GunnerJacket

flashman said:


> I wonder if in all this well-thought-out forecasting a fourth Canadian franchise might be a possibility. A second western franchise - Calgary or Edmonton - would balance out the Canadian content. Don Garber has also been very encouraging about adding Ottawa, the nation's capital.


The Canadian Soccer Association is still aspiring to create a domestic league of their own which involves partnerships with most CFL teams/ownership groups, suspected to be a D3 league that will kick-off in 2018 or 2019 with about 8-10 teams. This is part of the CSA's conditional approval of Ottawa jumping from the NASL to the USL, and the aspiration among those involved would be to hit every big market other than those in MLS. They're not looking to compete with MLS, merely trying to create a vehicle for Canadian soccer both as a product and to develop talent, but to do this they'll want as many larger cities as possible.

Given this and the size/makeup of the candidates I don't think MLS will move for another Canadian City until they see how those markets prevail under this model first.


----------



## flashman

Garber was very encouraging towards Ottawa's NHL owner Eugene Melnyk back in 2009 when he was looking at buying into MLS. He came right out and said if a MLS stadium was built in Ottawa, a team would go there, acknowledging the value of having MLS in another national capital. Here's a quote:

_Don Garber told the Ottawa Citizen: "In time, Ottawa will have a franchise. They (the Melnyk team) blew us away with their presentation and have shown a very strong understanding of the market. 

"But no stadium is the hurdle to giving a franchise."

Melnyk was adamant yesterday that the MLS would come to Ottawa. 

"This is going to happen. It's just a matter of time," he said._

Melnyk lost the political battle over the stadium - then had some serious health issues - so the deal never happened. And now that he's bounced back to better health, he has the new Senators downtown arena project as a much bigger priority. 

The proposed Canadian league is a lovely notion, but there is no financial basis for it to succeed. Especially when the three Canadian MLS teams occupy the largest markets and are doing well. Toronto and Montreal will draw nearly 100,000 for the two games of their MLS eastern conference final.


----------



## Guest

flashman said:


> Garber was very encouraging towards Ottawa's NHL owner Eugene Melnyk back in 2009 when he was looking at buying into MLS. He came right out and said if a MLS stadium was built in Ottawa, a team would go there, acknowledging the value of having MLS in another national capital. Here's a quote:
> 
> _Don Garber told the Ottawa Citizen: "In time, Ottawa will have a franchise. They (the Melnyk team) blew us away with their presentation and have shown a very strong understanding of the market.
> 
> "But no stadium is the hurdle to giving a franchise."
> 
> Melnyk was adamant yesterday that the MLS would come to Ottawa.
> 
> "This is going to happen. It's just a matter of time," he said._
> 
> Melnyk lost the political battle over the stadium - then had some serious health issues - so the deal never happened. And now that he's bounced back to better health, he has the new Senators downtown arena project as a much bigger priority.
> 
> The proposed Canadian league is a lovely notion, but there is no financial basis for it to succeed. Especially when the three Canadian MLS teams occupy the largest markets and are doing well. Toronto and Montreal will draw nearly 100,000 for the two games of their MLS eastern conference final.



And here's Garber 7 years later, in 2016:



> When I look at what’s happening across the U.S. for the most part, *because I think we’re fully expanded in Canada*, and you see markets like Austin and San Antonio and San Diego and St. Louis and Sacramento and Las Vegas and Cincinnati, these are big cities that have fans that already are engaged with the sport on some level professionally


----------



## GunnerJacket

MLS in 2009 and MLS in 2017 are different animals, and the prospect for minor league soccer in the US and Canada has likewise changed. Ottawa might very well provide a great home town setting and packed house but between then and now MLS has shifted priorities to those markets which broadcasters are telling them would yield the most media revenues. The league cannot grow any further as a product until it sees a geometric increase in its next round of TV contracts, because gameday revenues and local sponsorships are not enough to sustain the higher roster budgets. 

Conversely, that's where the purported Canadian league hopes to fit in. It doesn't have to be competitive to even NASL but has aspirations of doing so someday, hence the partnership with CFL owners and teams to cut down on operating costs. The model has a long way to go which is why they've yet to commit, but if there's enough cities like Ottawa, Edmonton, Hamilton and more that are involved it at least has a better chance now given how the appetite for soccer is more than 10-20 years ago. It's a dream, but one with a sense of realism, so we'll see.


----------



## Chevy114

Similar but different, but I wish MLS would tighten up their farm system. I feel like you know in every other American sport about their farm systems. Such as AAA baseball is the highest level and what you would want for your cities.

We have at least 3 different minor leagues in America, but not many people know which one you should want to be in. Tampa/St. Pete has the Rowdies and they were in the NASL for the past few years which everyone in Tampa thought was a good thing, but now they are moving to USL and most people don't know if that's an upgrade or not.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Chevy114 said:


> Similar but different, but I wish MLS would tighten up their farm system. ...
> 
> 
> 
> We have at least 3 different minor leagues in America, but not many people know which one you should want to be in. Tampa/St. Pete has the Rowdies and they were in the NASL for the past few years which everyone in Tampa thought was a good thing, but now they are moving to USL and most people don't know if that's an upgrade or not.


Be patient and I'm pretty sure this will be resolved in the next generation, if not in the next few years.



> I feel like you know in every other American sport about their farm systems. Such as AAA baseball is the highest level and what you would want for your cities.


Baseball, yes, but this has been thrown awry for other sports since college sports became a bona fide industry, especially for american football. But that's another thread.


----------



## Chevy114

Thanks I always like to get reassurance that MLS has a master plan!


----------



## GunnerJacket

Chevy114 said:


> Thanks I always like to get reassurance that MLS has a master plan!


If they don't, I do!


----------



## urbanjim

*MLS stadium planned for St Louis*

It was just announced that St Louis will be getting an MLS team, and the site for a new downtown soccer stadium has been chosen.


----------



## noize

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/...up-announces-sweeping-plans-mls-expansion-bid


----------



## Calvin W

urbanjim said:


> It was just announced that St Louis will be getting an MLS team, and the site for a new downtown soccer stadium has been chosen.


St Louis is not "getting" a soccer team. They are pursuing an expansion team. Big difference in wording.


----------



## bd popeye

_"He's no Jedi yet"

Translation.. St. Louis has NOT been awarded an expansion team yet._



Calvin W said:


> St Louis is not "getting" a soccer team. They are pursuing an expansion team. Big difference in wording.


Correct.

Stadium renders. Follow the link for the full story.

*St. Louis ownership group announces sweeping plans for MLS expansion bid*http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/...up-announces-sweeping-plans-mls-expansion-bid











> A Missouri-based ownership group announced on Thursday a sweeping plan to pursue an MLS expansion team for St. Louis – and a new downtown, soccer-specific stadium for the club to call home.
> 
> The proposed stadium, which would feature views of downtown St. Louis, would be located just west of St. Louis Union Station, about a mile from the Gateway Arch and Busch Stadium. The site encompasses over 24 acres of property currently controlled by the Missouri Department of Transportation that will be converted from the current highway entrance and exit ramps to usable land when new interchanges are introduced in several years to accommodate the relocation of the National Geospatial Agency.
> 
> SC STL holds an exclusive option to purchase the property, which is accessible via the city's Metro Link train system, through an agreement with the Land Clearance and Redevelopment Authority of St Louis.
> 
> Preliminary plans for the stadium, designed by St. Louis-based HOK, call for a capacity of approximately 20,000 seats with the ability to expand to 28,500 seats.


----------



## Guest

Way bigger news than any of you are making out.

sC STL has an exclusive option to buy the land? And the ownership, which looks solid, doesnt mind buying franchise fee, paying for stadium? 

That basically satisfies all of MLS' wishes, especially considering the boners they pop when stl comes up in conversation.

Also, just quietly, looks like they wanna play in red. Tee hee


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> Way bigger news than any of you are making out.


Meh, no one's anointing them as given but even you have to admit that having this on the MLS website implies the level of mutual interest between the league and the city has grown one layer deeper. For once it appears that an ownership group from the city has all their ducks in a row for where the bid needs to be right now, so they're at least on par with the other candidates not named Sacramento and Cincinnati. 

For now I'm personally pulling for them as I think they could provide SKC and Chicago with rivalries and STL is a nice city. plus I'm a sucker for older cities! We'll see how the other bids pan out, however. That being said...



bd popeye said:


>


... I love this concept! The location appears ideal and the initial design is both attractive and suited to the context of the community. I'd prefer a few more traditional architectural elements but otherwise you'd be hard pressed to deny this could be a great venue. Especially for MLS. 


Side note: Apparently they've experimented with the design as the picture below has a low side adjacent to the old station, whereas the one above appears to feature the main stand on that same side. Most likely debating about making views available vs. logistics of the site.


----------



## RaveDave

GunnerJacket said:


> Meh, no one's anointing them as given but even you have to admit that having this on the MLS website implies the level of mutual interest between the league and the city has grown one layer deeper. For once it appears that an ownership group from the city has all their ducks in a row for where the bid needs to be right now, so they're at least on par with the other candidates not named Sacramento and Cincinnati.
> 
> For now I'm personally pulling for them as I think they could provide SKC and Chicago with rivalries and STL is a nice city. plus I'm a sucker for older cities! We'll see how the other bids pan out, however. That being said...
> 
> 
> ... I love this concept! The location appears ideal and the initial design is both attractive and suited to the context of the community. I'd prefer a few more traditional architectural elements but otherwise you'd be hard pressed to deny this could be a great venue. Especially for MLS.
> 
> 
> Side note: Apparently they've experimented with the design as the picture below has a low side adjacent to the old station, whereas the one above appears to feature the main stand on that same side. Most likely debating about making views available vs. logistics of the site.


I don't think it is experimenting with the design, one image is showing the stadium before expansion, the other afterwards.


----------



## bd popeye

will101 said:


> Is that one of those creepy places where they put chocolate in the chili?


Oh hell naw..read the menu!


----------



## Fabio1976

bd popeye said:


> Thanks for the kind words Gents
> 
> Hey wait a minute..as soon as my lads check into the MLS I'll be a futbol fan..You do know who that is?
> 
> _ FC Cincinnati _


The FC Cincinnati fans are simply fantastic !!!


----------



## GunnerJacket

Hansadyret said:


> As a european not used to this expansion stuff. I was wondering what all this expansion money is going too? Reminds me of some pyramid scheme, but seeing all these big money investors coming into the league there is obviously believe in the sports/MLS continued growth.


Because US sports leagues are closed entities the money goes back to the owners and the league, but unlike a ponzi or pyramid scheme everyone understands this method of revenue expansion is highly limited. Once they reach a particular volume of teams (likely 28 or 32) the overall revenues coming in will not be enough to sustain the current profit margins. (This is also why the league isn't simply expanding wildly right now, as the TV monies wouldn't be worth sharing with additional teams.)

The more correct analogy is to equate the franchise fees as the purchase of corporate stock. The money is essentially being reinvested into the corporation as a buy-in from a new shareholder, who now will share in future profits or losses. Everyone understands this is but one means for raising revenue, and isn't the primary source targeted by the corporation/league. 



bd popeye said:


> Yea.. I'll stuff you with Skyline Chili!
> 
> Skyline Chili..Cincinnati OH


I know of it and sounds right up my alley. Consider it penciled in!


> ps.. I'm sure your local yokel restaurants in the ATL metro are way, way better than Cincinnati.


If this happens you tell me your taste and style and I'll hook you up. Atlanta may not be known for cuisine and it's tough to be unique in this day and age, but there are plenty of great spots for a variety of flavors. We'll take care of you!


----------



## JYDA

Some bad news coming out of the NASL. 

New York Cosmos future in doubt

http://www.empireofsoccer.com/cosmos-in-crisis-late-pay-furloughs-cast-teams-future-in-doubt-55932/

Fort Lauderdale looking likely to vanish. Getting sued for $300K it clearly doesn't have

http://www.empireofsoccer.com/nasl-...wsuit-against-fort-lauderdale-strikers-55894/

Rayo OKC looking shaky as well

http://newsok.com/article/5527601


----------



## Guest

The NASL crapshoot could be the best thing to happen. Could finally get all sides on the same page under MLS banner (in USL obviously).


----------



## slipperydog

5portsF4n said:


> The NASL crapshoot could be the best thing to happen. Could finally get all sides on the same page under MLS banner (in USL obviously).


And the potential for a USL1 and USL2 with promotion/relegation!


----------



## The Game Is Up

Soccer stadium, huge railyard project get OK from Sacramento City Council

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/city-beat/article114089838.html



> Sacramento City Council members approved the final environmental impact report and development agreement for the 244-acre site north of downtown Thursday night. The highlights of the plan include a Major League Soccer stadium seating 19,621, up to 10,000 homes and a Kaiser Permanente medical campus of up to 1.2 million square feet.
> 
> The approval also sets the stage for up to 3.8 million square feet of office space, museums, shops, 1,100 hotel rooms and 34 acres of parks and open space.



Cincinnati set to welcome Commissioner Don Garber in push for MLS expansion

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/...me-commissioner-don-garber-push-mls-expansion


----------



## carnifex2005

Arizona United SC of the USL (USSF Div 3) has rebranded to become Phoenix Rising FC.










They are planning on opening up a 5000 seat soccer stadium and soccer complex on the border of Tempe and Scottsdale on land owned by the Salt River Pima–Maricopa Indian Community.

http://www.phxrisingfc.com/news_article/show/727141?referrer_id=2717359


----------



## GunnerJacket

Twitter heating up suggesting that the NASL is about to fold, meaning their teams will either be shuttering their own doors or will begin speaking with USL about changing leagues. Based on chatter so far it appears Ft Lauderdale, Rayo OKC and the NY Cosmos will be closing up shop, with possibly Puerto Rico joining them. The rest will explore options within the USL universe.

The Great Convergance comes.


----------



## pesto

slipperydog said:


> And the potential for a USL1 and USL2 with promotion/relegation!


A solution to many problems.

It nicely sorts out the playahs from the wannabe's and effectively puts the focus on a small core of elite teams while keeping the drama of potential relegation for the rest. 

Works well for the smaller markets who keep the intimacy of a small city team but get to see the big names come to town once in a while and have the incentive and possibility to move into the top league if management is interested. 

Seems like these kinds of ideas sort of pop-up when people start putting half a billion into their investments. :lol:


----------



## slipperydog

Pedro Heizer ‏@pedroheizer 
Breaking: Cosmos have notified the league they will cease operations.

Pedro Heizer ‏@pedroheizer
My source went on to say @NYCosmos have paid all staff and players and notified all players and have been released.

Pedro Heizer ‏@pedroheizer
Source added NASL is rumored to be closing, with the remaining teams making exit plans to join @USL as early as this upcoming season.

Wes ‏@MnNiceFC
NASL apparently floated the idea of it's remaining members ponying up money to keep Cosmos alive. The league is surely done at this point.

Wes ‏@MnNiceFC
I am told that there are still options on the table for Cosmos like someone coming in and buying them. So things may not be done & dusted

Brooke Tunstall ‏@YesThatBrooke
Curious to see which @naslofficial teams call it a day now and which head for @USL. Hopefully Indy, Carolina, Jax, PR, EDM survive.

Wes ‏@MnNiceFC
I think the only questions are around SF Deltas and Miami. Everyone else will move to USL.


----------



## carnifex2005

slipperydog said:


> And the potential for a USL1 and USL2 with promotion/relegation!


I can't see that happening. The USL's budgets aren't that big (not compared to NASL budgets who couldn't make it work with their travelling costs). What I see happening is the USL turning into regional leagues to cut down on travel costs with a clear east and west division that will only meet each other in the playoffs (if the league grows to 40-60 teams).


----------



## BoulderGrad

Not dusting off the good ol' promotion relegation discussion again, but I see it as:

MLS:
32 franchises eventually.

USL1:
Larger markets with no current MLS team or large enough to support two levels of franchises (NY Cosmos reborn, Indy Eleven, Phoenix, etc). Still the proving ground for new MLS franchises and the top flight development league (Akin to the American Hockey League to the NHL)

USL2:
Reserve teams, smaller markets and NPSL teams working their way up. (NYRB2, OCB, etc) proving ground for USL1 and possibly MLS. Second level development league. Akin to the ECHL to the AHL to the NHL.

Each league is 32 teams, four divisions of 8, 2 games against your division, 1 against the rest.


----------



## GunnerJacket

carnifex2005 said:


> I can't see that happening. The USL's budgets aren't that big (not compared to NASL budgets who couldn't make it work with their travelling costs). What I see happening is the USL turning into regional leagues to cut down on travel costs with a clear east and west division that will only meet each other in the playoffs (if the league grows to 40-60 teams).


This is more or less what appears to be the eventuality. USL now has 31 teams + Tampa Bay and Ottawa joining next season for sure. Best guesses have 3-5 teams from NASL joining them so it will be less than 40 teams at best, even with Nashville back on board in 2018. By the time they can look beyond that MLS will have tapped their next round of expansion franchises and it could be anywhere from 2-4 teams from this pool. 

Based on this and the economics of the league I suspect they'll stay as one league with regional divisions and minimize travel costs.


----------



## slipperydog

This article outlines some of the problems with USL. MLS teams tend not to focus on marketing their USL reserve/developmental sides, and thus attendances are very poor.



> _The digital team has been boosting coverage on the club website. And there’s the hope that a few committed supporters attending Sunday afternoon’s MLS game in Philadelphia will rush up I-95 in time to reach Harrison, NJ and Red Bull Arena by the 8 PM kickoff. Combined, that should be enough to help New York Red Bulls II, the reserve outfit playing in the United Soccer League, set an attendance record at Sunday night’s title game.
> 
> The Red Bulls, their opponent (Sporting Kansas City’s Swope Park Rangers) and the USL will hope that’s enough to provide a worthy championship atmosphere and a suitable backdrop for ESPNU’s cameras. But there’s no guarantee. That’s because NYRBII’s record high attendance is a mere 2,096. Double that total, and the crowd still will be overwhelmed by 20,000 empty seats. Despite posting the best regular season record in the 29-team USL, NYRBII is used to playing in relative peace and quiet. This season, its second, it attracted just 589 fans per game_.





> _The USL’s average attendance surpassed 3,400 this year, led by jaw-dropping crowds at FC Cincinnati (17,296 per game) and Sacramento Republic (11,514) matches. But the league-wide figure was suppressed by the MLS reserve teams, which typically share a name/brand, stadium/market or both with the parent club. Thirteen USL teams drew fewer than 2,000 fans per game in 2016, and eight of those have MLS owners. And those owners probably aren’t too worked up about those statistics. Their USL teams exist in order to provide priceless professional minutes to young or developing players who might otherwise be languishing on an MLS bench._





> _“It’s a conversation more and more now with the business offices of those clubs and not always completely driven by the technical staff, where it started. It’s not a much more robust conversation with the ownership levels of those clubs,” he said. “These players need to play in a professional environment. You can’t go on the road and play in front of 20,000 at Cincinnati and then come home and play in front of a few hundred. If that’s how the clubs want to approach it, that’s not the model for us. That scenario can’t continue because ultimately, it’s a disservice to those players and to the independent teams that are putting millions of dollars into their stadiums and their programs.”_


http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2016/10/22/mls-usl-partnership-jake-edwards


----------



## slipperydog

GunnerJacket said:


> Based on this and the economics of the league I suspect they'll stay as one league with regional divisions and minimize travel costs.


To be fair, I never really understood the travel cost issue. If you're in Utah, is it really that much less cost-prohibitive to fly to Texas, as opposed to Pennsylvania? None of these are charters, they fly commercial. A flight is a flight. Most of the time, it's just longer.


----------



## Franchise646

slipperydog said:


> To be fair, I never really understood the travel cost issue. If you're in Utah, is it really that much more expensive to fly to Texas, as opposed to Pennsylvania? A flight is a flight. It's just longer.


In your example it would be more expensive to fly to Pennsylvania for Utah than to Texas but again that is something MLS teams are going to start wanted. Chartered Flights for teams. Maybe Partner with one of the Airlines here in the states like MLB, NFL, NBA and NHL do.


----------



## Bigmac1212

carnifex2005 said:


> Arizona United SC of the USL (USSF Div 3) has rebranded to become Phoenix Rising FC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are planning on opening up a 5000 seat soccer stadium and soccer complex on the border of Tempe and Scottsdale on land owned by the Salt River Pima–Maricopa Indian Community.
> 
> http://www.phxrisingfc.com/news_article/show/727141?referrer_id=2717359


Not a fan of the name, but nice complex.


----------



## pesto

Franchise646 said:


> In your example it would be more expensive to fly to Pennsylvania for Utah than to Texas but again that is something MLS teams are going to start wanted. Chartered Flights for teams. Maybe Partner with one of the Airlines here in the states like MLB, NFL, NBA and NHL do.


If this is a critical issue for the league's leadership, they are in trouble.

General rule: the entrepreneurs worry about revenues; the bookkeepers worry about costs.


----------



## Guest

slipperydog said:


> To be fair, I never really understood the travel cost issue. If you're in Utah, is it really that much less cost-prohibitive to fly to Texas, as opposed to Pennsylvania? None of these are charters, they fly commercial. A flight is a flight. *Most of the time, it's just longer.*


And there's your answer as to why regionalization makes sense. 

Although, I don't envisage any kind of micro regiionalization. East and West again. 20/20 split in a Western/Eastern USL would be fine. In that kind of setup though, you wouldn't need pro-rel. 

Could do a national USL tier 1, and a split east/west USL tier 2. That's another option.


----------



## The Game Is Up

MLS president: SC STL is the 'only contender' for St. Louis team ownership

http://www.mdjonline.com/neighbor_n...cle_49b92517-b621-57ec-b0c9-355596e5d3c7.html


FC Cincinnati fans show off for MLS commissioner

http://www.wlwt.com/article/fc-cincinnati-fans-show-off-for-mls-commissioner/8376054


Beckham's franchise would be welcome in MLS - Nesta

http://www.aol.co.uk/sport/2016/11/30/beckhams-franchise-would-be-welcome-in-mls-nesta/


----------



## Chevy114

So the Tampa Rowdies are moving to the USL, was that a better option even before it looked like the NASL might be in trouble? I thought at one point the MLS had a deal with the USL, but wasn't sure.


----------



## carnifex2005

Chevy114 said:


> So the Tampa Rowdies are moving to the USL, was that a better option even before it looked like the NASL might be in trouble? I thought at one point the MLS had a deal with the USL, but wasn't sure.


The MLS does have a deal with the USL. It is now MLS defacto minor league. USL was quickly becoming irrelevant with the advent of the NASL, so they agreed to become the MLS reserve league. Looks like that worked out for them in the end.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Ortiz: After Kroenke, St. Louisans need soccer groups to be forthright

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/colu...cle_c4c44a78-32cc-57bf-a353-624110bae5ed.html


----------



## Chevy114

carnifex2005 said:


> The MLS does have a deal with the USL. It is now MLS defacto minor league. USL was quickly becoming irrelevant with the advent of the NASL, so they agreed to become the MLS reserve league. Looks like that worked out for them in the end.


Ok thanks! Follow up question, does this mean the Rowdies will be tied to an MLS team like MLB does or is it more like NFL Europe where the players could be tied to an MLS team, but the USL teams are their own independent team?


----------



## GunnerJacket

Chevy114 said:


> Ok thanks! Follow up question, does this mean the Rowdies will be tied to an MLS team like MLB does or is it more like NFL Europe where the players could be tied to an MLS team, but the USL teams are their own independent team?


With the addition of Tampa and Ottawa USL will have (by my last count) 12 teams that do NOT have a direct MLS affiliation. There is no mandate that USL teams have MLS ties, it's merely up to the owners if they wish to go that route. Eventually all MLS teams will likely have their own reserve team and that's when we'll hear more chatter about breaking them off into their own group, but for now that's not feasible nor attractive to the independent teams financially. 

Also, for the teams that do forge ties with MLS sides there are various levels to how this can be done. The Charelston Battery, for instance, has an agreement with Atlanta United whereby the USL will harbor some United players upon request either for development or during injury recovery, with United footing the bill. Otherwise the Battery operate as their own team.

- - - - 

Meanwhile, Toronto vs Montreal. What. A. Series!! That was so fun to watch last night I was practically giddy. Great to see both teams going all out to win, the crowds were excellent, there were twists to the story lines throughout... Simply awesome! Thanks to both teams for that show.

_"Are you not entertained?!" _


----------



## Guest

Farm teams are best. Better to have Tampa Bay Rowdies than Orlando City 2.


----------



## carnifex2005

Average audience of 1.4 million watched the TFC/Montreal Impact match in Canada making that a new record (broken from the first leg). The audience peaked at 4.4 million when Ricketts scored the 5-2 goal in extra time.


----------



## Chevy114

5portsF4n said:


> Farm teams are best. Better to have Tampa Bay Rowdies than Orlando City 2.


I was wondering how that would work. Would Tampa keep it's identity or have to switch to an MLS version


----------



## slipperydog

5portsF4n said:


> Farm teams are best. Better to have Tampa Bay Rowdies than Orlando City 2.


----------



## eric the midget

carnifex2005 said:


> Average audience of 1.4 million watched the TFC/Montreal Impact match in Canada making that a new record (broken from the first leg). The audience peaked at 4.4 million when Ricketts scored the 5-2 goal in extra time.


I just watched the highlights of that game. As only a casual soccer viewer, that's arguably the best soccer atmosphere I've ever seen displayed in Candada/US. Stunning.


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

GunnerJacket said:


> Meanwhile, Toronto vs Montreal. What. A. Series!! That was so fun to watch last night I was practically giddy. Great to see both teams going all out to win, the crowds were excellent, there were twists to the story lines throughout... Simply awesome! Thanks to both teams for that show.
> 
> _"Are you not entertained?!" _


Yes. It was worth staying up so late for both legs.


Are there any news on Man City, I mean NY City and their stadium? Will they ever actually leave that baseball ground?


----------



## slipperydog

Pedro Heizer ‏@pedroheizer
Source: Over 20 @NPSLSoccer franchises have been approached by @USLPDL and @USL to join them. Leagues offering free entrance for #NPSL teams

Pedro Heizer ‏@pedroheizer
Those two were confirmed to me

Rev. Applewood ‏@RevApplewood
@pedroheizer @NPSLSoccer @USLPDL @USL have to assume DET and Chatta among those


----------



## teobucks

carnifex2005 said:


> Arizona United SC of the USL (USSF Div 3) has rebranded to become Phoenix Rising FC.
> 
> Are they opening this new complex in 2017? I read " The club plans to kick off the 2017 soccer season at the new Phoenix Rising FC soccer complex. " on the USL website.


----------



## teobucks

carnifex2005 said:


> Arizona United SC of the USL (USSF Div 3) has rebranded to become Phoenix Rising FC.


Anyone hear who designed this proposal?


----------



## GunnerJacket

dinamo_zagreb said:


> Are there any news on Man City, I mean NY City and their stadium? Will they ever actually leave that baseball ground?


If there's any movement on that front it's all behind the scenes. I've not heard anything since the last "_We're still looking for land_," statement about 6 months ago.


----------



## Franchise646

GunnerJacket said:


> If there's any movement on that front it's all behind the scenes. I've not heard anything since the last "_We're still looking for land_," statement about 6 months ago.



They are not going to say anything till a deal is done. It just the way they have to do things here in New York.


----------



## ielag

5portsF4n said:


> Farm teams are best. Better to have Tampa Bay Rowdies than Orlando City 2.


Depends on the perspective. The LA Galaxy want their 2nd team at StubHub Center because the players on G2 can train with the 1st team, academy kids can train with G2, makes it easier for 1st team coaches to watch the youngsters, etc. Makes the logistics easier and it's the way it's done around the rest of the world. Galaxy don't even care if they lose a little money on G2, it's solely for developmental purposes.


----------



## Guest

ielag said:


> Depends on the perspective. The LA Galaxy want their 2nd team at StubHub Center because the players on G2 can train with the 1st team, academy kids can train with G2, makes it easier for 1st team coaches to watch the youngsters, etc. Makes the logistics easier and it's the way it's done around the rest of the world. Galaxy don't even care if they lose a little money on G2, it's solely for developmental purposes.


I guess if it works like it does in Spain, it could be OK. As in, where other professional teams are generally superior to Barca B and so on.


----------



## slipperydog

RE: NASL

Duane Rollins @24thminute
Three independent sources have confirmed to me that Cosmos players and staff have been told that the club is ceasing operations.

Duane Rollins @24thminute
Also been told that the fate of the league will be decided Monday or Tuesday.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Okay, if they don't want to tear down the old grandstand would they be willing to modify it a bit? Looking at this image I wonder if they could orient the field so as to end directly into that stand (turn it so that the end line forms a triangle with the stands), in which case if they could shave off portions of the seating so as to bring the field as closely to the corner of the stands as possible...



Lumbergo said:


> Courtesy of WFLA News Channel 8


I think their proposal as offered is unique and neat, but I see it as also handcuffing them to something too small and functionally prohibitive if they're really thinking big. (Not only are they limiting capacity but they're sacrificing some of the prime seat locations/field views.) The only way their scheme works is if years from now they're willing and able to move the waterside road and complete a section of seating along that side of the field. 

Maybe that's just me. But it is an intriguing design issue!


----------



## Bori427

slipperydog said:


> With Tampa's latest play for MLS entry, I believe these are the eight cities with groups most vocal about their MLS ambitions to fill the last four spots, provided the 24th spot is given to Beckham's Miami group. (five spots otherwise)
> 
> Sacramento
> St. Louis
> Cincinnati
> Detroit
> Nashville
> San Antonio
> Raleigh/Triangle
> Tampa/St. Pete


I'd add Indianapolis.


----------



## Fabio1976

slipperydog said:


> With Tampa's latest play for MLS entry, I believe these are the eight cities with groups most vocal about their MLS ambitions to fill the last four spots, provided the 24th spot is given to Beckham's Miami group. (five spots otherwise)
> 
> Sacramento
> St. Louis
> Cincinnati
> Detroit
> Nashville
> San Antonio
> Raleigh/Triangle
> Tampa/St. Pete


And San Diego and Phoenix ?


----------



## BoulderGrad

Fabio1976 said:


> And San Diego and Phoenix ?


Definitely markets the league would want to be in. But as of now, no ownership groups or stadium plans to speak of. That said, Phoenix is starting to make a little noise with the re-brand to "Phoenix Rising" and the new SSS for the USL team. But they haven't made any moves towards MLS yet.


----------



## slipperydog

San Diego and Phoenix haven't announced any serious intention to pursue an MLS team. Even Indy has cooled off on the MLS talk. I don't think they'll have enough time to put something together for this next round of expansion.


----------



## Chevy114

GunnerJacket said:


> Okay, if they don't want to tear down the old grandstand would they be willing to modify it a bit? Looking at this image I wonder if they could orient the field so as to end directly into that stand (turn it so that the end line forms a triangle with the stands), in which case if they could shave off portions of the seating so as to bring the field as closely to the corner of the stands as possible...
> 
> 
> I think their proposal as offered is unique and neat, but I see it as also handcuffing them to something too small and functionally prohibitive if they're really thinking big. (Not only are they limiting capacity but they're sacrificing some of the prime seat locations/field views.) The only way their scheme works is if years from now they're willing and able to move the waterside road and complete a section of seating along that side of the field.
> 
> Maybe that's just me. But it is an intriguing design issue!


Honestly I think if they really wanted to they could do some kind of seating where the seats hang over the street back there like the A's wanted to do at one point.


----------



## Chevy114

Now that I'm looking at it, I agree they could take out the old part, shift the new part over and do a horseshoe shape.


----------



## Chevy114

Feel free to laugh at my idea, or even correct any mistakes. I'm not a city planner or architect, but here is my crude idea of the rowdies could spend a little more money and get a better shaped stadium:


----------



## GunnerJacket

Chevy114 said:


> Honestly I think if they really wanted to they could do some kind of seating where the seats hang over the street back there like the A's wanted to do at one point.


There are plenty of examples of facilities being built over roads, either as overhangs or completely enclosed tunnels. The catch with this site is the proximity to the field, as well. Your A's example allowed room for the base of the stands and concession area underneath portions of the seating, whereas there isn't any room for that in the Al Lang proposal. Fans in the overhang section would have to travel to the corner or to the existing grandstand section in order to evacuate their seats, which is not only inconvenient but an illegal safety hazard. 

Bottom line, if the field stays as is and the team is going to put seats along that part of the sideline, then the road will have to be moved at least a little. I'm pretty confident, anyway.


Chevy114 said:


> Feel free to laugh at my idea, or even correct any mistakes. I'm not a city planner or architect, but here is my crude idea of the rowdies could spend a little more money and get a better shaped stadium:


Essentially what I think would need to happen for this to be considered a serious long-term project. Unless their fans are willing to pay a premium to be located high up in a corner the stadium isn't designed to optimize revenues as a serious MLS contender. I'm sure they could make it work at lower levels and possibly in MLS, but it won't garner them the local money needed to escape the trough of lower league revenues, so why bother?


----------



## Chevy114

I get what your saying on both points. Stinks, but I understand

Another idea though, they buy out the theater behind the stadium, build part the seats there while the rest of the stadium stays put, then next year they flip and sit on that side and finish up the stadium. Eh even that sounds like too much for a maybe at best mls bid


----------



## slipperydog

Some news from a Q+A with the commissioner:



> _ESPN FC: Expansion, how big can MLS get? Stay at 28 teams? 32 teams? More?
> 
> DG: Obviously Atlanta and Minnesota begin to play next year, LA in 2018. Both teams are doing very well in preparing for their inaugural seasons. Atlanta has over 20,000 season tickets; I believe Minnesota is at 15,000. Both have been heavily focused on their facilities. We are making progress with our plans in Miami. That will get us to 24.
> 
> We announced last year our plans to expand to 28 teams. *We expect to have more detail, including a process and a timeline before next year, possibly on Dec. 15, following the MLS Board meeting in New York, where we hope to be able to reach agreement on a timeline to be able to provide details on what prospective applicants should be thinking about as they submit their bids, so 28 is our target. I don't expect we will go beyond that*, but I never thought that we would, when I came into the league at 12 and went down to 10 that we would ever get to 14 or 18, let alone where we are now at 23, soon to be 24.
> 
> ESPN FC: What is the latest situation on Miami? Is there a clock ticking where you move on?
> 
> DG: Well, there is a clock ticking on every expansion opportunity, because at some point you need to take a step back and decide whether or not the opportunity really exists. And if it does, we go forward, and if he doesn't we move onto another market. *We very much believe in the Miami opportunity. We believe that the stadium is a good one. We are very supportive of David Beckham and Marcelo Claure and Simon Fuller and their partners. And we remain optimistic. I have said for so long that we are making progress, and we are continuing to do so, but we have not finalized a deal yet.*
> 
> ESPN FC: Has there been any progress on New York City FC's stadium site search?
> 
> DG: *They continue to remain focused on it, but NYCFC will have to be the ones to talk about that. *I for one am thrilled to go to games in Yankee Stadium, and I know I and 30,000 other fans go to a lot of games. It's turned out to be much better than I ever thought it would. The Yankees have been terrific partners. I think they probably have the best groundskeeping crew in the entire world. What they've been able to do to turnaround that revered park into a soccer pitch and stadium has been remarkable.* I hope that they continue to make progress on whatever their stadium plans might be, but I for one thank that Yankee Stadium is turning out to be pretty exciting for everyone.*_


http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-...commissioner-talks-expansion-pro-rel-and-more


----------



## tampasteve

Chevy114 said:


> I get what your saying on both points. Stinks, but I understand
> 
> Another idea though, they buy out the theater behind the stadium, build part the seats there while the rest of the stadium stays put, then next year they flip and sit on that side and finish up the stadium. Eh even that sounds like too much for a maybe at best mls bid


Nice idea, but the city will NEVER sell the theater behind, the Mahaffey Theater. They just recently completed a expensive renovation of it and consider it a jewel of the city, along with the Salvador Dali Museum next to it. 

In the end I think the team owner, Bill Edwards, is getting this design on the record so that the team can just be on MLS's radar. Without some sort of plan they would not even be considered for a MLS team expansion and if MLS stays at 28 teams then Tampa/St. Pete would not have an MLS team again. That said, many fans (myself included) are perfectly happy to stay at D2 (assuming USL get D2 status, which seems very likely).


----------



## Chevy114

Wow didn't know they had so much faith in Miami and Def. didn't think they would brag about Yankee stadium as a soccer venue.


----------



## slipperydog

Chevy114 said:


> Wow didn't know they had so much faith in Miami and Def. didn't think they would brag about Yankee stadium as a soccer venue.


While MLS may have faith in Miami, it apparently seems like David Beckham does not. :lol:

Pedro Heizer @pedroheizer 43m
Hearing that #DavidBeckham's bid for #MLS2Miami may be over and that the Englishman is taking his clout (and checkbook) to #LasVegas.


----------



## Guest

Las Vegas should not be under consideration for expansion. It is, apparently, one of the riskiest markets to expand in considering the amount of transplants that reside there. 

Considering all the cities that are vying for MLS, Las Vegas would have to sit somewhere in 10th in terms of appeal. It's just a shame that Beckham keeps targeting these cities based on their appeal as tourist destinations. 

At this point, though, if he switches targets, does it mean his discounted fee is no longer discounted?


----------



## pesto

5portsF4n said:


> Las Vegas should not be under consideration for expansion. It is, apparently, one of the riskiest markets to expand in considering the amount of transplants that reside there.
> 
> Considering all the cities that are vying for MLS, Las Vegas would have to sit somewhere in 10th in terms of appeal. It's just a shame that Beckham keeps targeting these cities based on their appeal as tourist destinations.
> 
> At this point, though, if he switches targets, does it mean his discounted fee is no longer discounted?


I would doubt it: his name is the value proposition and he takes that with him wherever he goes. 

But, of course, the value of franchises in different cities can vary, so the LV price could be higher.


----------



## carnifex2005

5portsF4n said:


> Las Vegas should not be under consideration for expansion. It is, apparently, one of the riskiest markets to expand in considering the amount of transplants that reside there.
> 
> Considering all the cities that are vying for MLS, Las Vegas would have to sit somewhere in 10th in terms of appeal. It's just a shame that Beckham keeps targeting these cities based on their appeal as tourist destinations.
> 
> At this point, though, if he switches targets, does it mean his discounted fee is no longer discounted?


Yes. Garber confirmed that his discounted price (rumoured to be $25 million to buy a franchise) is only with his stated city of Miami. Beckham won't be paying full freight for a team in another city. He isn't that rich. This rumour is bullshit.


----------



## slipperydog

Pedro Heizer ‏@pedroheizer 
MLS in Miami will happen, just not with Beckham.


----------



## Pellshekk

I don't get to watch much MLS - what is the quality like on the pitch these days? Are the games entertaining? 

I love the passion of US soccer fans, and these great new stadiums are a breath of fresh air to world football, but I really worry that US fan passion won't be rewarded with entertaining and skillful games.


----------



## JJG

slipperydog said:


> MORE INFO HERE: http://www.rowdiessoccer.com/mls2stpete


SIDE NOTE:

Has anyone mentioned that this could be a good facility for USF football or that they could share the it? 

I think they could...


----------



## pesto

Hansadyret said:


> In value?Doubt it. if you want in on the action in american sports you have to buy one of the 30 teams in a closed shop monopoly. You can't buy a team like Leipzig and take it to the elite for a half the money it takes to buy a NFL team. The european professional soccer business as a whole is however much bigger than any american league in revenue (over $20billion). Thats about as much as NFL, NBA and MLB combined.
> 
> Maybe we should end this discussion here since it's far way from the purpose of this thread.


OK with me. But you might want to turn around 180 degrees: you'll also see that IBM is no longer a worldwide monopolist that can't be touched. :lol:

All pro sports leagues are cartels; check EU and country antitrust law for how they get their exemptions (basically politics and big money; I've worked in this area for years). 

The potential of European brands adopting media oriented revenue growth and moving away from their local revenue sources is largely what attracted foreign investors to Arsenal, MC, Man U, Liverpool, PSG, etc. The next level is to develop new brands and that's where the huge money is going to be made over the next 20 years.

How much of it accrues to the various players and the new players and cross-border leagues is the big open question.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Okay guys, I've indulged (abd even participated in) the sidebar but I think we're straying too far. Let's reel it back in, please. Thanks.



The Game Is Up said:


> David Beckham running out of time to see plans through for proposed Major League Soccer franchise in Miami
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...osed-Major-League-Soccer-franchise-Miami.html


About time. Nothing against Miami or Becks but the leeway afforded this effort has been insulting to fans, there or otherwise. In fact, I expect if this falls through Sacramento will formally request a discounted franchise fee to be the next team in since they were ready to go a year ago.



> St. Louis leader says soccer wouldn't work in dome
> 
> http://www.stltoday.com/news/state-...cle_052519a4-a0af-53c2-8f7f-fefbece2aace.html


Not surprised. But...

This could be a curious case study for land use and property recycling. Often we have stadiums in ideal locations that don't get renovated or redeveloped because of direct cost-benefit issues to the owner, yet there may be indirect benefits for multiple parties if there was a way to reuse the site. Especially considering the options for the old site, the impacts of a stadium in a new location, etc. I'm not saying there is an obvious way to make MLS work at the STL dome site, but I would love to see a thorough analysis to truly see how far off is the potential reuse.


----------



## Chevy114

About Miami wikipedia says that Miami averaged between 7k and 11k for regular season games. That was in a bad location for soccer and at a time where MLS wasn't at the popularity it was today. As much as I think Miami isn't doing a good job trying to win a team, I think they will be fine attendance wise.


----------



## slipperydog

USL conference alignment announced for 2017. Nashville joins in 2018, likely alongside with a MN United affiliated team in Rochester, MN.


----------



## prageethSL

Completed Orlando city Stadium


----------



## Chevy114

slipperydog said:


> USL conference alignment announced for 2017. Nashville joins in 2018, likely alongside with a MN United affiliated team in Rochester, MN.


Do the teams already in MLS cities play at the same stadiums or somewhere else?


----------



## GunnerJacket

Chevy114 said:


> Do the teams already in MLS cities play at the same stadiums or somewhere else?


I'm pretty sure most of the MLS2 sides play in smaller venues and not the same stadia as their senior teams.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Chevy114 said:


> Do the teams already in MLS cities play at the same stadiums or somewhere else?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Soccer_League#Current_clubs

Mostly play in smaller stadiums near by. Only Orlando and Real Monarchs (Real Salt Lake USL) play in the same stadium as the top club.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Charlotte Leaders Negotiating Deal to Bid for Major League Soccer Team at Memorial Stadium

http://www.twcnews.com/nc/charlotte...r-league-soccer-team-at-memorial-stadium.html


Others see Tampa Bay Rowdies as ‘silent assassins’ in MLS expansion race

http://saintpetersblog.com/others-see-tampa-bay-rowdies-silent-assassins-mls-expansion-race/


St. Pete business group throws its weight behind Rowdies MLS dream

http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay...-business-group-throws-its-weight-behind.html


----------



## Chevy114

I would love an MLS team in Tampa/St. Pete, and the stadium is already in a great location, but man is that place ugly! We are doing a half a** version of what Portland did with their minor league baseball park turned soccer stadium. I hope they do a different stadium if we do get the MLS bid.


----------



## Observador_SJC

Chevy114 said:


> Feel free to laugh at my idea, or even correct any mistakes. I'm not a city planner or architect, but here is my crude idea of the rowdies could spend a little more money and get a better shaped stadium:


The stadium must have the north-south orientation.


----------



## slipperydog

Effort to build soccer stadium in Dorchester all but dead...due to the teacher's union?

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business...ll-but-dead/LS8c4VsetmN4FZ13HAfeQL/story.html


----------



## pesto

slipperydog said:


> Effort to build soccer stadium in Dorchester all but dead...due to the teacher's union?
> 
> http://www.bostonglobe.com/business...ll-but-dead/LS8c4VsetmN4FZ13HAfeQL/story.html


"Dead" is a funny word. Projects like this can die half a dozen times. 

If the price is too high, you go somewhere else. But the whole nature of this story sounds like we are setting up a deal where the taxpayers get to pay-off the teachers' union in some indirect way and be none the wiser about it.


----------



## Chevy114

slipperydog said:


> Effort to build soccer stadium in Dorchester all but dead...due to the teacher's union?
> 
> http://www.bostonglobe.com/business...ll-but-dead/LS8c4VsetmN4FZ13HAfeQL/story.html


As a teacher, I don't care where my union building is lol


----------



## will101

slipperydog said:


> Effort to build soccer stadium in Dorchester all but dead...due to the teacher's union?
> 
> http://www.bostonglobe.com/business...ll-but-dead/LS8c4VsetmN4FZ13HAfeQL/story.html


Another way to look at it is Kraft is offering *far* less than it would cost the union to relocate. It would be fair to pay another business enough to be able to move, but unions are The Great Satan in today's society.


----------



## pesto

will101 said:


> Another way to look at it is Kraft is offering *far* less than it would cost the union to relocate. It would be fair to pay another business enough to be able to move, but unions are The Great Satan in today's society.


What is going on here is not union related except in the sense that the unions happen to own the building and have political clout. It's irrelevant how you feel about unions otherwise.

They hold a building that is needed by a developer and they figure they can ask a high price for it. This happens innumerable times in every country in the world and they would be idiots not to try it. 

The politicos want the project completed and the union has influence with them since it can provide a few hundred "volunteers" for their next campaigns in exchange for some taxpayer money to grease the process. This separates them from the average "holdout" and effectively makes them immune to eminent domain.

Kraft may or may not be willing to risk the adverse publicity involved in taking care of the situation; that depends on how well things can be arranged with his various alternatives.


----------



## Chevy114

Sounds like Kraft can say I tried and keep his team in an NFL stadium


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> Effort to build soccer stadium in Dorchester all but dead...due to the teacher's union?
> 
> http://www.bostonglobe.com/business...ll-but-dead/LS8c4VsetmN4FZ13HAfeQL/story.html


A package deal amounting to $25-30M for less than 3 acres?! I don't blame the owners for asking for the moon but even for Boston prices that seems a pipe dream. If they feel they can have that offer met or better then more power to them, but that's a huge ask on their part. If this deal falls through I'd be curious to see what the BTU does do with the property. 



Chevy114 said:


> Sounds like Kraft can say I tried and keep his team in an NFL stadium


I've resolved myself to assuming this has been their motive for years and will remain so until something ideal falls into their lap. I don't doubt the above site would've been turned down, however, as that looked like a very sweet location. Could've been MLS' version of AT&T Park in San Fran.


----------



## Chevy114

So are MLS stadiums not funded by the owner very often?


----------



## GunnerJacket

Chevy114 said:


> So are MLS stadiums not funded by the owner very often?


Varies. Many original venues (Columbus, LA...) were heavily funded by the owners/private investment early on because there was little precedent to suggest a track record warranting public investment. This is also why they were more stripped down in design. Let's face it, MLS isn't as prestigious and profitable as other sports so local governments aren't as excited to bend over for soccer as they would be for, say, the NFL or MLB. Lately we're seeing more support since the league has improved it's profile and shown fans will come out, so places like Sacramento and Orlando have shown a willingness to lend some financial muscle into the project.


----------



## Chevy114

Yeah it's crazy to see how many bigger name cities are starting to get behind mls stadiums and making the gov. pay for the new ones


----------



## soup or man

StubHub Center will be the temporary home (2 years) of the Los Angeles Chargers.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Chevy114 said:


> Yeah it's crazy to see how many bigger name cities are starting to get behind mls stadiums and making the gov. pay for the new ones


The good news is they're finding more and more practical uses for MLS-sized venues to help make the most of these projects. HS football, concerts, etc. In many cases it's easier (and cheaper!) to use a 20k venue than an NFL sized stadium.



soup or man said:


> StubHub Center will be the temporary home (2 years) of the Los Angeles Chargers.


I'm happy for the venue but this is going to be a very odd marriage for those years, and I wonder if it won't harm the Chargers further. Then again maybe the net loss between that venue versus revenues and costs of using, say, the coliseum won't be that different. 

Maybe the Galaxy can use this as an opportunity to build in more suite amenities or something?


----------



## BlazerBlaze

Chevy114 said:


> Yeah it's crazy to see how many bigger name cities are starting to get behind mls stadiums and making the gov. pay for the new ones


Unfortunately I think these cities are catching on to this to late. I'd point to Missouri's Governor telling the St Louis group that the state won't be paying for the new stadium. I fully expect this to become the new trend because the taxpayers are tired of funding toys for billionaires.


----------



## Guest

Imagine if someone had told you 15 years ago that the Chargers would be playing in a soccer stadium in the future. 

You'd think we were talking about 2177.


----------



## KingmanIII

vs


----------



## pesto

BlazerBlaze said:


> Unfortunately I think these cities are catching on to this to late. I'd point to Missouri's Governor telling the St Louis group that the state won't be paying for the new stadium. I fully expect this to become the new trend because the taxpayers are tired of funding toys for billionaires.


Minneapolis, Las Vegas, SF (Warriors and Giants were each offered lucrative land deals), Sacramento.

Not everyone is opposed to billionaires and their toys coming to or staying in town.


----------



## 3tmk

Hhhhhhwhat? Is that serious for the Chargers?

First of all, weren't there numerous scheduling constraints due to the stadium being on a campus?
Second remark: Do the Chargers expect such a small crowd? Or do they wish to increase the exclusivity of the event by making sure they sell out every game.
Tertio: Would they look to expand the capacity somehow, to bring it up to NFL standards?


----------



## slipperydog

Paul Tenorio ‏@PaulTenorio
Don Garber says he will be meeting with the mayor of San Diego in about an hour. With Chargers moving, that market more attractive for MLS.

A joint SDSU football-MLS stadium makes a lot of sense from a capacity perspective, hopefully at the Mission Valley site, where there has been a lot of talk of a SDSU campus expansion.


----------



## soup or man

3tmk said:


> Hhhhhhwhat? Is that serious for the Chargers?
> 
> First of all, weren't there numerous scheduling constraints due to the stadium being on a campus?
> Second remark: Do the Chargers expect such a small crowd? Or do they wish to increase the exclusivity of the event by making sure they sell out every game.
> Tertio: Would they look to expand the capacity somehow, to bring it up to NFL standards?


The Chargers being at StubHub is only temporary (2 years). Even if they wanted to change anything about StubHub, it's still the Galaxy's pitch.


----------



## pesto

3tmk said:


> Hhhhhhwhat? Is that serious for the Chargers?
> 
> First of all, weren't there numerous scheduling constraints due to the stadium being on a campus?
> Second remark: Do the Chargers expect such a small crowd? Or do they wish to increase the exclusivity of the event by making sure they sell out every game.
> Tertio: Would they look to expand the capacity somehow, to bring it up to NFL standards?


One tweet said they will expand it to 40k but no further details. 

NFL standards are flexible; the Coliseum does not meet them in many ways and won't until after the Rams leave.


----------



## Nacre

3tmk said:


> Second remark: Do the Chargers expect such a small crowd? Or do they wish to increase the exclusivity of the event by making sure they sell out every game.


There are very few Chargers fans in Los Angeles, and most NFL fans in the city are already committed to another team.

1) Raiders
2) Rams
3) Cowboys
4) 49ers
5) Chargers


----------



## bd popeye

slipperydog said:


> Paul Tenorio ‏@PaulTenorio
> Don Garber says he will be meeting with the mayor of San Diego in about an hour. With Chargers moving, that market more attractive for MLS.
> 
> A joint SDSU football-MLS stadium makes a lot of sense from a capacity perspective, hopefully at the Mission Valley site, where there has been a lot of talk of a SDSU campus expansion.


Agreed!^^

The Mission Valley site is huge. 166 acres. about 19,000 parking spaces. It is located nearly in the geographical center of the city of San Diego. It is served by a light rail line...This is a PRIME area for development. the Chargers balked last month at a lease deal for $1 dollar a year for 99 years that would give them the right to develop the Mission Valley site as they saw fit.



_A recent vintage photo of The "Q" Note the light rail line near the bottom of the photo_



_(Mexico)El Tri plays Chile at Qualcomm on May 31st 2016 before 68,258 fans.._


----------



## Guest

Nacre said:


> There are very few Chargers fans in Los Angeles, and most NFL fans in the city are already committed to another team.
> 
> 1) Raiders
> 2) Rams
> 3) Cowboys
> 4) 49ers
> 5) Chargers


Why don't Chargers just rebrand? 

Though I always think these estimates of who already 'owns' the city don't really tell us anything. In a short period of time, they will move up to second or first in the popularity stakes. 

People get behind local teams. There is virtually no precedence of an out of market team being more popular than a local one in the long term. 

If LA can support two mls teams. If it can support two nhl teams. If it can support two mlb teams. If it can support two nba teams. It can support two nfl teams.


----------



## bd popeye

5portsF4n said:


> *Why don't Chargers just rebrand?*
> 
> Though I always think these estimates of who already 'owns' the city don't really tell us anything. In a short period of time, they will move up to second or first in the popularity stakes.
> 
> People get behind local teams. There is virtually no precedence of an out of market team being more popular than a local one in the long term.
> 
> If LA can support two mls teams. If it can support two nhl teams. If it can support two mlb teams. If it can support two nba teams. It can support two nfl teams.


Exactly.. when the ballot measure about the stadium failed in San Diego and it looked 99% certain that the Bolts would bolt the city of San Diego for LA the City of San Diego should have sued the Chargers to keep the name and history of the club in San Diego. Much like Cleveland did when the orginal Browns moved to Baltimore in 1996.

From Wiki;


> The Ravens were established in 1996, when Art Modell, who was then the owner of the Cleveland Browns, announced plans to relocate the franchise from Cleveland to Baltimore. As part of a settlement between the league and the city of Cleveland, Modell was required to leave the Browns' heritage in Cleveland for a replacement team and replacement personnel that would take control in 1999 including the history and records of the Browns. In return, he was allowed to take his own personnel and team to Baltimore, where such personnel would then form an expansion team.


New name for the Chargers..

LA ?????


----------



## soup or man

LA Express


----------



## pesto

bd popeye said:


> Exactly.. when the ballot measure about the stadium failed in San Diego and it looked 99% certain that the Bolts would bolt the city of San Diego for LA the City of San Diego should have sued the Chargers to keep the name and history of the club in San Diego. Much like Cleveland did when the orginal Browns moved to Baltimore in 1996.
> 
> 
> That always struck me as bizarre. Like when the Sonics moved to OKC and fans insisted that when Seattle got a new team they would name it the Sonics, use the same colors, keep the old team stats, player records, etc.
> 
> It's like my wife Sonica leaves me, so when I find a new wife I insist on calling her Sonica, wear Sonica's clothes, assume her life history, eat what she ate, etc. And I insist that she is the mother of my children, is Sonica's age and has her medical conditions.
> 
> Seems like more of a mental disorder than legitimate fandom. Complete detachment from reality.


----------



## Nacre

5portsF4n said:


> People get behind local teams. There is virtually no precedence of an out of market team being more popular than a local one in the long term.


Los Angeles is not a normal sports market. 

1) a trip to Disneyland is more popular with kids than sports
2) LA is a city of migrants who have loyalties to other teams
3) LA is as celebrity and fame obsessed as the stereotype and people have a hard time getting excited about losing teams without superstars
4) the weather, beaches, swimming pools, etc
5) SoCal has a very consumer oriented culture with relatively little loyalty compared to other areas - it is the opposite of provincial regions like New England

I have no doubt that the Chargers will win over some fans, but it will not be automatic.



pesto said:


> It's like my wife Sonica leaves me, so when I find a new wife I insist on calling her Sonica, wear Sonica's clothes, assume her life history, eat what she ate, etc. And I insist that she is the mother of my children, is Sonica's age and has her medical conditions.
> 
> Seems like more of a mental disorder than legitimate fandom. Complete detachment from reality.


Do you really not see the difference between a spouse and a sports team?

An expansion team is not a person. It is more like duplicating a building that burned down: the building is not a person, so there is no difficulty in copying its appearance after the original was destroyed.



bd popeye said:


> New name for the Chargers..
> 
> LA ?????


If they rebrand it will probably be "California" instead of "Los Angeles." That way they can try to hold on to some of the San Diego fans. "California Condors" would work.


----------



## bd popeye

soup or man said:


> LA Express


I always like that name...it was originally used by a USFL team more than 30 years ago.(83 to 85) The USFL lasted three seasons...just in case anyone wanted to know.

I have a question about Stub Hub stadium. Are there any real plans to temporarily expand the stadium to 40,000?


----------



## pesto

Nacre said:


> Los Angeles is not a normal sports market.
> 
> 1) a trip to Disneyland is more popular with kids than sports
> 2) LA is a city of migrants who have loyalties to other teams
> 3) LA is as celebrity and fame obsessed as the stereotype and people have a hard time getting excited about losing teams without superstars
> 4) the weather, beaches, swimming pools, etc
> 5) SoCal has a very consumer oriented culture with relatively little loyalty compared to other areas - it is the opposite of provincial regions like New England
> 
> I have no doubt that the Chargers will win over some fans, but it will not be automatic.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really not see the difference between a spouse and a sports team?
> 
> An expansion team is not a person. It is more like duplicating a building that burned down: the building is not a person, so there is no difficulty in copying its appearance after the original was destroyed.
> 
> 
> 
> If they rebrand it will probably be "California" instead of "Los Angeles." That way they can try to hold on to some of the San Diego fans. "California Condors" would work.



I can't see them not using LA in their name; that's where the value is. 

As for using the old history, that's more or less my point: why are fans fixated on pretending that the new building or new team be identical to another building that burned down or another franchise that left them. Would they claim that the new building has been there for, say, 50 years and that the 1979 champions played in that very building and get the building permits changed to reflect the historical data?

They are trying to pretend something that is NOT the old team REALLY IS the old team and taking affirmative steps to establish their fixations. When this happens it can apply to people, places, things or whatever; it's called dissociation or some like term and is a severe form of mental illness.


----------



## BlazerBlaze

bd popeye said:


> I always like that name...it was originally used by a USFL team more than 30 years ago.(83 to 85) The USFL lasted three seasons...just in case anyone wanted to know.
> 
> I have a question about Stub Hub stadium. Are there any real plans to temporarily expand the stadium to 40,000?


I haven't seen any real plans for expansion. I simply don't see how they would be able to expand the stadium time wise. Galaxy plays there March-October. Chargers till the first week in January, Then the USMNT has their camp their. So February is the only month available to do it. And I don't know where'd they be able to put 13,000 seats, much less construct them in a month.


----------



## bd popeye

I just read this on the San Diego Union Tribune web site.

Plans may be rolling for a shared soccer/(college)football stadium in San Diego.

The article is rather lengthy. Follow the link for the full details.

*Can soccer fill void left by Chargers?*http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/sd-sp-mls-20170112-story.html



> San Diego has been an expansion candidate several times before, going back to the league’s inception in 1996 when former Padres owner John Moores held regular talks with then-MLS commission Doug Logan and brought the 1999 All-Star Game to Qualcomm Stadium. Chivas USA considered San Diego in 2004 before becoming the second team in Los Angeles (sound familiar?) and folding a decade later.
> 
> A public unveiling of the proposal is expected later this month, likely coinciding with the U.S. men’s national team game against Serbia at Qualcomm on Jan. 29. But several sources familiar with the details have shared the basics:
> 
> The group would demolish Qualcomm and redevelop the 166 acres in Mission Valley with a mix of parkland, entertainment, restaurants, retail shops, office space, residential housing and a mid-sized stadium for soccer and college football.
> 
> The stadium would occupy about 15 acres and cost $200 million, split with SDSU. The university eventually would assume ownership of the facility, which would then be leased back to the soccer club.
> 
> The stadium would have 20,000 permanent seats for MLS and an additional 10,000 collapse-able seats at the top for football. The design would include provisions to add an upper deck to expand to 40,000 seats.
> 
> MLS would be one component of a “Soccer City” complex that would capitalize on San Diego’s rich tradition in the sport, with international games and potential “rivalry” matches with the Tijuana Xolos of the Mexican league.
> 
> The principal money man is Stone, the founder of FS Investors with offices on Prospect Avenue in La Jolla. His bio on the company’s website says “he has overseen or been involved with the completion of over 150 investments, cumulatively responsible for several billion dollars of equity capital deployment.”
> 
> The investment group also includes Steve Altman, a former vice chairman at Qualcomm who was one of the major donors for SDSU’s JAM Center basketball practice facility (Altman is the “A” in JAM); and brothers Masood and Massih Tayebi. Padres owner Peter Seidler said last June he was part of the group but several sources close to him confirmed he is not currently involved.
> 
> Moores, the former Padres owner, also has been linked to a plan to redevelop the Qualcomm site as a university annex with a mid-sized stadium and possibly purchase an MLS team. An associate said he is no longer involved in either project.


----------



## ielag

KingmanIII said:


> vs


A couple of years ago, Pasadena residents voted against hosting an NFL team even on a temporary basis in favor of hosting more concerts.


----------



## slipperydog

Apparently Demba Ba and Eden Hazard are working on plans for an NASL franchise in San Diego as well.

If the MLS thing comes to fruition, that's going to be a pretty damn attractive place for foreign based talent.


----------



## The Game Is Up

The $100 million question: Is MLS stadium a good deal for Charlotte?

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/editorials/article126433369.html


----------



## GunnerJacket

pesto said:


> That always struck me as bizarre. Like when the Sonics moved to OKC and fans insisted that when Seattle got a new team they would name it the Sonics, use the same colors, keep the old team stats, player records, etc.
> 
> It's like my wife Sonica leaves me, so when I find a new wife I insist on calling her Sonica, wear Sonica's clothes, assume her life history, eat what she ate, etc. And I insist that she is the mother of my children, is Sonica's age and has her medical conditions.
> 
> Seems like more of a mental disorder than legitimate fandom. Complete detachment from reality.





pesto said:


> As for using the old history, that's more or less my point: why are fans fixated on pretending that the new building or new team be identical to another building that burned down or another franchise that left them. Would they claim that the new building has been there for, say, 50 years and that the 1979 champions played in that very building and get the building permits changed to reflect the historical data?
> 
> They are trying to pretend something that is NOT the old team REALLY IS the old team and taking affirmative steps to establish their fixations. When this happens it can apply to people, places, things or whatever; it's called dissociation or some like term and is a severe form of mental illness.


Sports are different and I think you'll find your opinion in the minority. Surely you wouldn't feel the same if we were talking about the Yankees, Celtics or Cowboys, would you?

A team is branded based on the location, in order to carve an identity and to build a rapport with those local fans. It's not the Delta Falcons, it's the Atlanta Falcons. If they move then they're no longer the Atlanta team the extent that they're still the Falcons is debatable because at that point you're incurring so many changes to the operation that things will be discernibly different for everyone. Plus, often the city receiving the team will be looking to likewise forge their own identity. 

So I think your wife analogy doesn't apply because the nature of pro sports is a different relationship, one with a need for brand appeal and identity rooted in the sense of community with the fans and the hometown. (Or the university, HS, etc) As such, most fans I know prefer to see the team brand aligned with the location and not simply the business. 



bd popeye said:


> I have a question about Stub Hub stadium. Are there any real plans to temporarily expand the stadium to 40,000?


Nothing on the drawing board, but there is space enough that for the right money it's possible. Likely not worth it, though, unless the Galaxy see some value in the investment to support the effort, as well.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Las Vegas pursuit of Major League Soccer more about ego than responsible actions

http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports...gue-soccer-more-about-ego-responsible-actions


MLS Expansion: Garber high on San Diego

http://www.socceramerica.com/article/71970/mls-expansion-garber-high-on-san-diego.html


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> Sports are different and I think you'll find your opinion in the minority. Surely you wouldn't feel the same if we were talking about the Yankees, Celtics or Cowboys, would you?
> 
> A team is branded based on the location, in order to carve an identity and to build a rapport with those local fans. It's not the Delta Falcons, it's the Atlanta Falcons. If they move then they're no longer the Atlanta team the extent that they're still the Falcons is debatable because at that point you're incurring so many changes to the operation that things will be discernibly different for everyone. Plus, often the city receiving the team will be looking to likewise forge their own identity.
> 
> So I think your wife analogy doesn't apply because the nature of pro sports is a different relationship, one with a need for brand appeal and identity rooted in the sense of community with the fans and the hometown. (Or the university, HS, etc) As such, most fans I know prefer to see the team brand aligned with the location and not simply the business.
> 
> Nothing on the drawing board, but there is space enough that for the right money it's possible. Likely not worth it, though, unless the Galaxy see some value in the investment to support the effort, as well.


Well, of course they WANT to believe that their team didn't leave, and I want to believe that I'm Larry Ellison. But I got over it without having to dress like him, getting a fake ID, and show up at meetings claiming I'm Larry. These people chose to really live out their neuroses.

It really is a bit sick since they are happy to try to confuse real history with an invention that they KNOW is an invention. It's even got a bit of Faulkner to it too, not letting your lover leave you by killing him and leaving his corpse in your bed so you can talk to it the rest of your life.

But it could start a trend; NY fans should pass a law saying that the current Yankee Stadium REALLY did have Babe Ruth playing in it or Madison Sq. Garden had P.T. Barnum producing shows in it? They would be well over 100 years old yet looking surprisingly modern. And, of course, the Chargers don't need to move to LA because they NEVER LEFT.


----------



## pesto

The Game Is Up said:


> Las Vegas pursuit of Major League Soccer more about ego than responsible actions
> 
> http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports...gue-soccer-more-about-ego-responsible-actions
> 
> 
> MLS Expansion: Garber high on San Diego
> 
> http://www.socceramerica.com/article/71970/mls-expansion-garber-high-on-san-diego.html


I think the LV guy misses the dynamics here.

The question MLS has to ask is are we going to compete for the people filling the 170k LV rooms every weekend or are we going to let EPL, China, etc., take it as their own stronghold. They may select the latter approach but that at least is the responsible question. 

The point of having a team there is to buttress your attempt to get visitors to think MLS soccer when they go to Vegas, as opposed to someone else. The club could lose a ton of money and still provide brand visibility for every other side. (Similarly: stores on Rodeo Dr. typically lose money but make every other store in the chain richer.) 

Or you could start a series in LV with a MLS side against a well-known international. But ignoring LV is ill-advised.


----------



## GunnerJacket

I think you're adding more into then what's there, or what matters. I don't know anyone who claims Babe Ruth played at the current Yankees stadium, but they do know that the Yankees are synonymous with NYC and that the brand value is built in large part on that relationship. If some new owner wanted to move them, to say Albany, then the bulk of the sporting world would no longer revere them as _the_ Yankees. If you took the Empire State Building and moved it to Buffalo, would it be as hallowed?

True enough, some teams don't have the level of brand and rapport that it's the same across the board, but on the whole teams are viewed as singular entities rather than chain franchises, and as such those brands are built in part on that relationship with the community. It's not simply The Broncos, but rather the Denver Broncos. Green Bay and the Packers, the Cubs and Chicago, etc. They have home fields, foster traditions, develop special ties with the fans... Those are _their_ teams, and if that bond isn't present then the appeal drops. If the teams all dropped their location monikers and sold themselves as simply corporate entities then I guarantee the support drops and the nature of being fans is emasculated.

Says I, anyway. Cheers.


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> I think you're adding more into then what's there, or what matters. I don't know anyone who claims Babe Ruth played at the current Yankees stadium, but they do know that the Yankees are synonymous with NYC and that the brand value is built in large part on that relationship. If some new owner wanted to move them, to say Albany, then the bulk of the sporting world would no longer revere them as _the_ Yankees. If you took the Empire State Building and moved it to Buffalo, would it be as hallowed?
> 
> True enough, some teams don't have the level of brand and rapport that it's the same across the board, but on the whole teams are viewed as singular entities rather than chain franchises, and as such those brands are built in part on that relationship with the community. It's not simply The Broncos, but rather the Denver Broncos. Green Bay and the Packers, the Cubs and Chicago, etc. They have home fields, foster traditions, develop special ties with the fans... Those are _their_ teams, and if that bond isn't present then the appeal drops. If the teams all dropped their location monikers and sold themselves as simply corporate entities then I guarantee the support drops and the nature of being fans is emasculated.
> 
> Says I, anyway. Cheers.


Long and short: claiming that the new team formed by new owners, new players, in a new stadium after a gap of years is REALLY the same old team is a lie. Believing that some act of some committee "transferring history" makes that real is b/s; it's more like going to a witch doctor. 

Wanting any of this to happen is an attempt to recreate reality to a way you wish had been real.

Cheers as well.


----------



## nyrmetros

soup or man said:


> StubHub Center will be the temporary home (2 years) of the Los Angeles Chargers.


OMG..... I never thought I would see the day.....


----------



## nyrmetros

bd popeye said:


> Agreed!^^
> 
> The Mission Valley site is huge. 166 acres. about 19,000 parking spaces. It is located nearly in the geographical center of the city of San Diego. It is served by a light rail line...This is a PRIME area for development. the Chargers balked last month at a lease deal for $1 dollar a year for 99 years that would give them the right to develop the Mission Valley site as they saw fit.
> 
> 
> 
> _A recent vintage photo of The "Q" Note the light rail line near the bottom of the photo_
> 
> 
> 
> _(Mexico)El Tri plays Chile at Qualcomm on May 31st 2016 before 68,258 fans.._


The stadium looks very nice. What's wrong with it? Can the fans no longer see the game from their seats?


----------



## bd popeye

nyrmetros said:


> The stadium looks very nice. What's wrong with it? Can the fans no longer see the game from their seats?


1) It's falling apart.
1a) the infrastructure is in disrepair, plumbing, drainage etc...
2) The press box is not aligned for football or soccer, It is a baseball pressbox.
3) The concourse on the loge and upper level are very narrow.
4) Not enough luxury boxes for high rollers. And the luxury boxes their are are not up to NFL standards.
5) The lockers rooms are 50 years old and look like it.
6) Sight lines on the field level & eastern upper deck end zone are very poor in spots for football.


----------



## pesto

bd popeye said:


> 1) It's falling apart.
> 1a) the infrastructure is in disrepair, plumbing, drainage etc...
> 2) The press box is not aligned for football or soccer, It is a baseball pressbox.
> 3) The concourse on the loge and upper level are very narrow.
> 4) Not enough luxury boxes for high rollers. And the luxury boxes their are are not up to NFL standards.
> 5) The lockers rooms are 50 years old and look like it.
> 6) Sight lines on the field level& eastern upper deck end zone are very poor in spots for football.


Are you talking about Mission Valley or Oakland? :lol:


----------



## bd popeye

pesto said:


> Are you talking about Mission Valley or Oakland? :lol:


Mission Valley...hno:

Article from 2015..before Charger Armageddon..

*What wrong with Qualcomm Stadium?*



> By Seth Hall | March 13, 2015
> If Qualcomm Stadium had feelings, it would have to be feeling like a rejected lover these days. Once a rallying point for the city’s faithful, one of the only things people now widely agree on is that they hate the current stadium; it’s too old, they say, too outdated, falling apart and ugly. Our Liam Dillon decided to have a look at what is actually wrong with the stadium. “The building isn’t in danger of falling down,” Dillon reports. “It’s just old and ragged.”
> 
> At worst, consultants have warned that some flaking concrete needs to be repaired before it does become a hazard. But otherwise, the items that top one consultant’s list has little to do with the football on the field. It’s stuff like replacing security cameras ($2.8 million) and plumbing ($12.1 million), along with an $11 million air ventilation system replacement.
> 
> • A lot of folks were worried that a huge pool of leaked fuel underneath the stadium would doom any redevelopment effort in Mission Valley. But it turns out a cleanup job may have done the trick. Lisa Halverstadt and NBC 7’s Artie Ojeda explain why the plume no longer looms large over a redevelopment effort in our most recent San Diego Explained.
> 
> • Redeveloping Mission Valley assumes the Chargers don’t leave for greener pastures in Los Angeles. The Post Game reports the Oakland Raiders would prefer to stay put in their own city as well, and they think they can privately fund a new (small) stadium to boot.


----------



## KingmanIII

bd popeye said:


> I just read this on the San Diego Union Tribune web site.
> 
> Plans may be rolling for a shared soccer/(college)football stadium in San Diego.
> 
> The article is rather lengthy. Follow the link for the full details.
> 
> *Can soccer fill void left by Chargers?*http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/sd-sp-mls-20170112-story.html
> 
> 
> 
> San Diego has been an expansion candidate several times before, going back to the league’s inception in 1996 when former Padres owner John Moores held regular talks with then-MLS commission Doug Logan and brought the 1999 All-Star Game to Qualcomm Stadium. Chivas USA considered San Diego in 2004 before becoming the second team in Los Angeles (sound familiar?) and folding a decade later.
> 
> A public unveiling of the proposal is expected later this month, likely coinciding with the U.S. men’s national team game against Serbia at Qualcomm on Jan. 29. But several sources familiar with the details have shared the basics:
> 
> The group would demolish Qualcomm and redevelop the 166 acres in Mission Valley with a mix of parkland, entertainment, restaurants, retail shops, office space, residential housing and a mid-sized stadium for soccer and college football.
> 
> The stadium would occupy about 15 acres and cost $200 million, split with SDSU. The university eventually would assume ownership of the facility, which would then be leased back to the soccer club.
> 
> The stadium would have 20,000 permanent seats for MLS and an additional 10,000 collapse-able seats at the top for football. The design would include provisions to add an upper deck to expand to 40,000 seats.
> 
> MLS would be one component of a “Soccer City” complex that would capitalize on San Diego’s rich tradition in the sport, with international games and potential “rivalry” matches with the Tijuana Xolos of the Mexican league.
> 
> The principal money man is Stone, the founder of FS Investors with offices on Prospect Avenue in La Jolla. His bio on the company’s website says “he has overseen or been involved with the completion of over 150 investments, cumulatively responsible for several billion dollars of equity capital deployment.”
> 
> The investment group also includes Steve Altman, a former vice chairman at Qualcomm who was one of the major donors for SDSU’s JAM Center basketball practice facility (Altman is the “A” in JAM); and brothers Masood and Massih Tayebi. Padres owner Peter Seidler said last June he was part of the group but several sources close to him confirmed he is not currently involved.
> 
> Moores, the former Padres owner, also has been linked to a plan to redevelop the Qualcomm site as a university annex with a mid-sized stadium and possibly purchase an MLS team. An associate said he is no longer involved in either project.
Click to expand...

20-30k is way too small for both the Holiday Bowl and SDSU, especially if the latter has any aspirations of ever joining a major conference.

I'd offer an MLS owner either the site of the Chargers' proposal or one of the parcels of land east of Sea World. 

I'd build SDSU a single-tier, 45k all-seater on the current site of Jack Murphy, with an open endzone that would allow for expansion to 50k with temp bleachers for the bowls; permanent expansion to 60k+ would be achievable with the addition of upper decks.

UofL's Cardinal Stadium pre-expansion is kinda what I'm envisioning:


----------



## bd popeye

Thanks Kingman III. I forgot all about the Holiday Bowl. jeez.. I went to the first Holiday bowl in 1978. Navy Vs BYU. Navy won.

Enywho I always like the simplicity of Cardinal Stadium. Great Idea.

As for building a SSS on the land east of Sea World. A couple of problems. That land is part of Mission Bay Park. And it is reclaimed land. Looks nice on the top but it is just sand underneath.


----------



## pesto

KingmanIII said:


> 20-30k is way too small for both the Holiday Bowl and SDSU, especially if the latter has any aspirations of ever joining a major conference.
> 
> I'd offer an MLS owner either the site of the Chargers' proposal or one of the parcels of land east of Sea World.
> 
> I'd build SDSU a single-tier, 45k all-seater on the current site of Jack Murphy, with an open endzone that would allow for expansion to 50k with temp bleachers for the bowls; permanent expansion to 60k+ would be achievable with the addition of upper decks.
> 
> UofL's Cardinal Stadium pre-expansion is kinda what I'm envisioning:


I expect Los Xolos will be regular visitors to both SD and LA. And probably home town favorites as well. :lol:


----------



## bd popeye

pesto said:


> I expect Los Xolos will be regular visitors to both SD and LA. And probably home town favorites as well. :lol:


pesto you are not funny...:slap:

Los Xolos averaged 24,000 a match at home for the 2015-16 Liga MX season.


----------



## amadora2700

MLS to San Diego?

100% privately financed, it'll need to be at least a 40,000 seater.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/sports/MLS-Targeting-San-Diego-for-Expansion-410864725.html


----------



## hngcm

amadora2700 said:


> MLS to San Diego?
> 
> 100% privately financed, it'll need to be at least a 40,000 seater.
> 
> http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/sports/MLS-Targeting-San-Diego-for-Expansion-410864725.html


I sure hope so!

Applications for expansion are due in a week so it's a lot of things to get done before then


----------



## Nacre

eric the midget said:


> If the USL splits up into 2, or even 3 divisions in the future, they should implement pro/rel.


If they split it will be to save money through geographical grouping.

Until 1) soccer dominates 75+% of sports revenue the way it does in Europe and 2) the USA achieves European population density, there is no way pro/rel becomes a reality here.

Even in Brazil, where soccer is the national religion, teams are partially regionalized to save travel costs.


----------



## The Game Is Up

(How about a little comic relief...)

Charlotte CEO: A Publicly Funded MLS Stadium Can Heal Racial Division After Police Brutality

http://deadspin.com/charlotte-ceo-a-publicly-funded-mls-stadium-can-heal-r-1791466144


On a more serious note, between the St. Louis, San Diego, Detroit and now rumors of Vegas, Charlotte, Nashville, etc., where does that leave Sacramento? Talk about a victim of bad timing.


----------



## Guest

The Game Is Up said:


> (How about a little comic relief...)
> 
> Charlotte CEO: A Publicly Funded MLS Stadium Can Heal Racial Division After Police Brutality
> 
> http://deadspin.com/charlotte-ceo-a-publicly-funded-mls-stadium-can-heal-r-1791466144
> 
> 
> On a more serious note, between the St. Louis, San Diego, Detroit and now rumors of Vegas, Charlotte, Nashville, etc., where does that leave Sacramento? Talk about a victim of bad timing.


Positive that mls has already given them the green light in private. They are so far ahead of all those markets that theres no point even bringing up sacramento.


----------



## GunnerJacket

The Game Is Up said:


> On a more serious note, between the St. Louis, San Diego, Detroit and now rumors of Vegas, Charlotte, Nashville, etc., where does that leave Sacramento? Talk about a victim of bad timing.


Most pundits still feel they're the first ones in, and that all this other posturing is for the remaining 3 spots. (Or 4 if you still hope for Miami to not come to fruition.) If they do get pushed aside it would look very bad on MLS.


----------



## bd popeye

_A press conference is scheduled this morning for a group planning to develop the Qualcomm Stadium site in San Diego._

*Proposed joint-use stadium would bring Major League Soccer to San Diego*



> SAN DIEGO – The future of Qualcomm Stadium hangs in the balance after the Chargers were taken off the lease after the NFL team announced they were relocating to Los Angeles.
> 
> A group of local investors, led by FS Investors founder Mike Stone and former Qualcomm Vice Chairman Steve Altman, have a plan for the Mission Valley site and they will reveal details on Monday.
> 
> The group claimed to have exclusive negotiation rights with Major League Soccer for San Diego. They hinted at proposing a state of the art, joint-use stadium that would be the home of a future MLS expansion team and could also serve the San Diego State football team.
> 
> The new stadium would be a mixed-use sports and entertainment complex, setting aside land for an NFL stadium.
> 
> The group said they would not need taxpayer dollars for the project.


----------



## Chevy114

I feel like the movie click where I wish we could just fast forward past all the rumors and get to the teams and stadiums already done.


----------



## pesto

It's like a new game show: whenever a city loses an NFL team, they are offered a consolation prize of being allowed to argue over a soccer stadium for the next few years. That way they can show they really have the skills at lying and stealing from the taxpayers to someday host an NFL team. :lol:


----------



## amadora2700

San Diego Qualcomm site:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-soccer-20170122-story.html










BREAKING: First look at rendering of MLS Stadium concept at Qualcomm Stadium site. Standing by for details. #nbc7


----------



## bd popeye

pesto said:


> It's like a new game show: whenever a city loses an NFL team, they are offered a consolation prize of being allowed to argue over a soccer stadium for the next few years. That way they can show they really have the skills at lying and stealing from the taxpayers to someday host an NFL team. :lol:


Excellent post....^^



amadora2700 said:


> San Diego Qualcomm site:
> 
> http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-soccer-20170122-story.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BREAKING: First look at rendering of MLS Stadium concept at Qualcomm Stadium site. Standing by for details. #nbc7


Ahhh....I was hoping for something a little larger perhaps 40,000 seats....and what will happen to the Holiday Bowl? they almost always draw over 50,000.


----------



## GunnerJacket

pesto said:


> It's like a new game show: whenever a city loses an NFL team, they are offered a consolation prize of being allowed to argue over a soccer stadium for the next few years. That way they can show they really have the skills at lying and stealing from the taxpayers to someday host an NFL team. :lol:


Agreed. I think the sense of urgency stems from the sense that MLS likely won't expand again for some time after this round, since anything beyond 28 likely won't be feasible unless the TV money makes some quantum leaps. That and I'm sure the league is priming the pump, as well, to ensure they get the best bids and keep the enthusiasm at a high. It wouldn't serve them well in growing the league if they simply remained quiet.


----------



## bd popeye

This is the seating chart for the proposed MLS stadium in..you guessed it San Diego..



Very generic..

*source>>>>SDSU Aztec forum*

If you go to the website that is "hosting these pictures" it is really a web survey about the possible new stadium in SD..click bait in other words..


----------



## Christchurch

Is the white seating areas for future expansion?


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> Agreed. I think the sense of urgency stems from the sense that MLS likely won't expand again for some time after this round, since anything beyond 28 likely won't be feasible unless the TV money makes some quantum leaps. That and I'm sure the league is priming the pump, as well, to ensure they get the best bids and keep the enthusiasm at a high. It wouldn't serve them well in growing the league if they simply remained quiet.


Yes. Those who plan to be players in the reviving world economy have to build brands, get name recognition and show they need to be brought into every conversation.

The NFL has made bold moves into LA and LV and is looking at London. EPL and China are expanding their reach. MLS needs to take care of business at home and show-off their stadiums and sides worldwide. Every time that someone becomes aware of a new stadium, a new team, a new player you are winning the PR battle. Even more so when they then talk about it.


----------



## Chevy114

They can't keep a stadium for one bowl game a year that has the option to go elsewhere with all these new stadiums popping up around cali. This is the right decision if they want to keep D1 football and get a soccer team asap.


----------



## amadora2700

A rundown of the plan in Charlotte:

http://wfae.org/post/citys-bid-major-league-soccer-moving-fast-some-say-too-fast


----------



## Guest

Chevy114 said:


> They can't keep a stadium for one bowl game a year that has the option to go elsewhere with all these new stadiums popping up around cali. This is the right decision if they want to keep D1 football and get a soccer team asap.


The stadium doesnt get built without mls i imagine, so <30,000 mandatory.


----------



## KingmanIII

5portsF4n said:


> The stadium doesnt get built without mls i imagine, so <30,000 mandatory.


And that's not gonna cut it for SDSU. Period.


----------



## The Game Is Up

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article128451994.html



> The Charlotte City Council has historically supported spending public money on sports stadiums, but council members are lukewarm about funding a new soccer stadium in Elizabeth.
> 
> Five council members have told the Observer they oppose the proposal. One more “no” vote would derail the plan to have the city kick in $43.75 million toward the $175 million stadium.
> 
> Bruton Smith, the billionaire race track owner, and his son Marcus, CEO of Speedway Motorsports, are leading the effort for a Charlotte team. The ownership group has to submit a proposal for an expansion team to Major League Soccer by Jan. 31.


----------



## amadora2700

City Council members will hold a three-day retreat in Raleigh starting Wednesday. Kimble’s plan is for council members to drive back from Raleigh around noon and then reconvene Friday afternoon to vote on the MLS plan.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article128314104.html


----------



## Zaqattaq

amadora2700 said:


> A rundown of the plan in Charlotte:
> 
> http://wfae.org/post/citys-bid-major-league-soccer-moving-fast-some-say-too-fast


Nice audio clip from local radio.


----------



## eric the midget

Christchurch said:


> Is the white seating areas for future expansion?


It looks like a partial cover to me.


----------



## amadora2700

http://soccerstadiumdigest.com/2017/01/charlotte-city-council-expected-to-reject-mls-proposal/

Charlotte city council expected to REJECT proposal. :nuts:


----------



## The Game Is Up

MLS expansion city profile: San Antonio

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2017/01/25/mls-expansion-city-san-antonio


----------



## slipperydog

Louisville City FC partners with HOK to design new 10,000 seat soccer-specific stadium in downtown Louisville

http://www.uslsoccer.com/news_article/show/749991?referrer_id=2333971


----------



## Chevy114

I am not a fan of anyone outside of New Orleans using a fleur de lis, especially with the colors purple and gold.


----------



## Cjones2451

Chevy114 said:


> I am not a fan of anyone outside of New Orleans using a fleur de lis, especially with the colors purple and gold.


How about when Quebec City gets an NHL team back?


----------



## amadora2700

Mecklenburg commissioners approve their part of soccer stadium plan, but city bails.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article128867894.html


----------



## Chevy114

Cjones2451 said:


> How about when Quebec City gets an NHL team back?


Oh yeah sorry I'm so used to being that American lol sorry no American team should be allowed, french speaking Providences are cool to do as they please


----------



## amadora2700

MLS in San Diego Press Launch scheduled aboard USS Midway on Monday at 11am PST, Don Garber will be in attendance.


----------



## slipperydog

North County Battalion of the PDL have rebranded as "SoCal Surf" and have announced their new venue as the Army and Navy Academy stadium in Carlsbad, CA


----------



## slipperydog

MLS has asked Phoenix to submit an expansion bid

http://www.phxrisingfc.com/news_article/show/750131?referrer_id=2717359


----------



## pesto

Chevy114 said:


> I am not a fan of anyone outside of New Orleans using a fleur de lis, especially with the colors purple and gold.


Des Moines, Detroit, St. Louis, Terre Haute, Pierre, Louisville, St. Paul. About 1000 others of French origin.


----------



## Chevy114

Sorry, just how I feel, I think New Orleans has taken the logo and colors and made them their own no matter how many other cities have done it as well. I associate them with those 2 things more than any other city named.


----------



## amadora2700

http://www.charlottefive.com/what-the-heck-happened-with-the-mls-stadium-proposal-yesterday/


"Smith has until Tuesday to submit a bid to the league. He could choose to submit the bid without the promise of the city’s share of the cost, covering it himself. Or he could privately talk with Major League Soccer and see if there’s any flexibility to the league’s submission deadline. It’s also possible that Charlotte simply doesn’t meet this deadline and instead chases another spot in MLS expansion plans down the road."


----------



## pesto

Chevy114 said:


> Sorry, just how I feel, I think New Orleans has taken the logo and colors and made them their own no matter how many other cities have done it as well. I associate them with those 2 things more than any other city named.


Of course everyone has different associations. But a large number of high schools with saint or medieval names (Lancers, Knights) use a fleur de lis as well either formally or de facto at rallies and games.


----------



## slipperydog

H-E-B Park in Edinburg, Texas









https://twitter.com/RGVFC


















https://twitter.com/HEBPark


----------



## The Game Is Up

Mayor Barry proposes Nashville fairgrounds for new pro soccer stadium

http://www.tennessean.com/story/new...occer-stadium-nashville-fairgrounds/97081920/


http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/baybuzz/kriseman-meets-with-mlb-mls-in-new-york-city/2311038



> Kriseman met with Major League Soccer Commissioner Don Garber first for about an hour at the commissioner’s office.
> 
> They discussed the Tampa Bay Rowdies’ bid to join MLS. Garber, the mayor said, was impressed with the region’s television market and population base. Kriseman emphasized St. Petersburg’s demographics---a city getting younger and more diverse---as a a good fit for MLS, whose fan base skews the same way.



MLS expansion city profile: Raleigh

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2017/01/27/mls-expansion-city-raleigh-north-carolina-fc-steve-malik


----------



## slipperydog

On the eve of the deadline for expansion bids, Indianapolis will reportedly become 12th city applying for MLS expansion

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2017/01/30/indianapolis-mls-expansion-application-indy-eleven-nasl


----------



## Guest

dinamo_zagreb said:


> I can't stand these crippled ends. What is the point of building half of stand? What is the point of ugly building like this one here in place of stand? Is it MLS' trademark or what?


Show me a better one in Bosnia and you can get a cookie.


----------



## skaP187

willygtoc said:


>


So what´s wrong with the stadium in the distance, because this just ain´t good enough.


----------



## aquamaroon

bd popeye said:


> I like Audi Field...Of course I'm no soccer fan..


Yeah I actually like it myself. I wish the roof covered all the seating, but otherwise I think it's pretty nice by MLS standards.

I think the big problem is that this stadium is being compared to the original design:

































Compared to that stadium, this new one is a MAJOR downgrade, at least imo. (again still nice though)


----------



## Zaqattaq

Wow such a shame they couldn't pull off something closer to the original designs given how long this has taken and DC's history in the league. Audi Field looks cheap compared to what is currently going up and proposed by the expansion bids.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Calvin W said:


> Everyone is a critic....
> 
> Anyone putting up their own money to design the "perfect" stadium?


Well, to be fair this is a message board for the discussion of architecture. It's the banter about what works and what doesn't that helps spur our interests, helps us learn and in turn drives the development industry. Plus I think in this case the main point is this:


aquamaroon said:


> I think the big problem is that this stadium is being compared to the original design:
> 
> Compared to that stadium, this new one is a MAJOR downgrade, at least imo. (again still nice though)


DCU has been on this quest for nigh 10+ years now, and they've had fits and spurts where we've seen some very solid proposals both for this site and over near the Anacostia. In the past they've touted something comparable in quality to Red Bull Arena, and given the team's pedigree and their fan base at the time it seemed highly favorable. That each successive modification has been, in essence, a downgrade of some sort is inevitably going to feel like a let down. 

- We've gone from visions of 25k to something approaching 20k, with little room for expansion. 
- We've gone from visions of comprehensive design themes with complete stadiums to something that's been compromised time and again by the constraints of the site that barely resembles the original ideal.
- And we've yet to hear a plausible explanation for the corner pub/suite area and why that warranted cutting into one of the stands. Points to DCU for thinking differently, but sometimes different doesn't endear appeal. (See: Coke, New)

DCU promised everyone a new Camry for so long it's not surprising the fans get upset at having to settle on a stripped down Corolla. Doesn't mean the Corolla's a bad car, and in time the bandwagon will be thankful and drive on, but at the moment it's not the vehicle they expecting based on the sales pitch.

_(Yeah, I should've used Audi's in that example but I don't know their models!)_



skaP187 said:


> So what´s wrong with the stadium in the distance, because this just ain´t good enough.


If you mean RFK waaaaay off in the background - Their current venue is beyond it's useful lifespan and wasn't even designed for soccer. Any investment to fix that up would be wasted because you still wouldn't match the overall package you'd get in this new stadium. Not as a soccer venue, anyway.

If you mean the Nationals ballpark, that's a baseball field that's ill equipped to host soccer and the Nats would not be interested in sharing. 

This new venue will prove great in terms of gameday intimacy and fostering better atmospheres, and will likely mean a big revenue boost for the team. It's simply not the top-of-the-line model that DCU fans have been hoping for after more than a decade in waiting for a new home.


----------



## Chevy114

Wonder how much more it would cost to do the original design?


----------



## willygtoc

skaP187 said:


> So what´s wrong with the stadium in the distance, because this just ain´t good enough.


It's a baseball stadium.


----------



## Calvin W

GunnerJacket said:


> Well, to be fair this is a message board for the discussion of architecture. It's the banter about what works and what doesn't that helps spur our interests, helps us learn and in turn drives the development industry. Plus I think in this case the main point is this:
> DCU has been on this quest for nigh 10+ years now, and they've had fits and spurts where we've seen some very solid proposals both for this site and over near the Anacostia. In the past they've touted something comparable in quality to Red Bull Arena, and given the team's pedigree and their fan base at the time it seemed highly favorable. That each successive modification has been, in essence, a downgrade of some sort is inevitably going to feel like a let down.
> 
> - We've gone from visions of 25k to something approaching 20k, with little room for expansion.
> - We've gone from visions of comprehensive design themes with complete stadiums to something that's been compromised time and again by the constraints of the site that barely resembles the original ideal.
> - And we've yet to hear a plausible explanation for the corner pub/suite area and why that warranted cutting into one of the stands. Points to DCU for thinking differently, but sometimes different doesn't endear appeal. (See: Coke, New)
> 
> DCU promised everyone a new Camry for so long it's not surprising the fans get upset at having to settle on a stripped down Corolla. Doesn't mean the Corolla's a bad car, and in time the bandwagon will be thankful and drive on, but at the moment it's not the vehicle they expecting based on the sales pitch.
> 
> _(Yeah, I should've used Audi's in that example but I don't know their models!)_


What works or doesn't work is your opinion.

My opinion is different than yours, so where you think this is inferior, and not up to par, I think it is exactly what is needed for this city in this location right now. Again that's my opinion.


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## 3tmk

Baseball diamond field

edit: oops didn't notice I was late.

Considering the needs for DC United, the Audi Field looks good enough. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any room for expansion, but that is probably not going to be a problem for a long time


----------



## derzberb

willygtoc said:


> *"AUDI FIELD"* is the name of the DC United new stadium.


This massive stand on the edge is quite impressive. likeee!


----------



## CaliforniaJones

San Diego is presenting plan for MLS Expansion.












> The group behind San Diego's Major League Soccer expansion bid released a full plan for the stadium site on Monday.
> 
> Local luminaries were on hand at the event, including former MLS star Landon Donovan, who now lives in San Diego, as the group -- which submitted an official application to be among the next four MLS expansion cities last month -- revealed new renderings of the stadium site.
> 
> Proposing to tear down Qualcomm Stadium in the Mission Valley area of San Diego and transform the site into a multi-use space, the plans include a 30,000-capacity stadium, to be used both for an MLS team and San Diego State University's football team, 55 acres of public park space, an entertainment district and student housing. Located next to a trolley line, the group believes the proposed area would prove attractive to young adults.
> 
> Notably, the plan also includes the ability to build a separate NFL stadium on the site, should a team come to San Diego to replace the departed Chargers in the future.
> 
> The MLS stadium project alone is estimated to cost about $200 million, with the bid group proposing to split the costs with San Diego State, and eventually gifting the stadium to the university. Altogether, the Mission Valley site proposal is estimated to cost $2.5 billion -- all privately financed.
> 
> The next step in the process is for a petition campaign to begin next month, with the group seeking 120,000 signatures from San Diego voters by the end of April to indicate public support for the site redevelopment proposal.


http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2017/...-bid-group-reveal-full-plans-new-stadium-site


----------



## Guest

Considering that MLS stresses it's important for owners to own stadium revenues, the gifting of the stadium would surely come with some clause ensuring that they take all proceeds from their games? 

Otherwise this doesn't sound that great.


----------



## BoulderGrad

5portsF4n said:


> Considering that MLS stresses it's important for owners to own stadium revenues, the gifting of the stadium would surely come with some clause ensuring that they take all proceeds from their games?
> 
> Otherwise this doesn't sound that great.


This was discussed quite a bit. Its not right to say they are 'gifting' the stadium to SDSU. They are basically just paying them back for their investment in the stadium, but retaining control of the stadium. Its basically like SDSU is giving them a loan to build the stadium.


----------



## bd popeye

CaliforniaJones said:


> San Diego is presenting plan for MLS Expansion.
> 
> http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2017/...-bid-group-reveal-full-plans-new-stadium-site


I think the stadium is too small for SDSU.. we shall see what shakes out. Of course the whole she-bang is contingent upon San Diego being awarded a MLS franchise.

SDSU thinks the stadium is too small also..I heard a blurb on the end of one of the videos in this link.

http://www.cbs8.com/clip/13116777/update-new-stadium-and-development-proposal-unveiled


----------



## bd popeye

Wait a minute? Where's the parking? Unless the parking is where a future NFL stadium will stand. Southern Californians like to drive *everywhere*. It ain't Europe..





Looks like San Jose team stadium..very much so...another "erector set" stadium...


----------



## SounderBruce

Stadiums don't need all that much parking, especially when it's located next to a light rail station.

There has to be a survey out there comparing transit ridership between leagues' fans. MLS would rank pretty high, given the amount of urban, young fans.


----------



## bd popeye

SounderBruce said:


> Stadiums don't need all that much parking, especially when it's located next to a light rail station.


Ahh... the "Q" has 19,000 parking spaces..nineteen thousand. Is that true in SoCal? People just drive everywhere..



SounderBruce said:


> There has to be a survey out there comparing transit ridership between leagues' fans. MLS would rank pretty high, given the amount of urban, young fans


I think,I'm not sure, a few years ago the Chargers stated that on game day about 20,000 fans out of 60,000 in attendance took the trolley(light rail) And a much smaller amount took special Charger game day buses.


----------



## Zaqattaq

Actually the plan calls for a ton of parking: 16,400 spaces which is a moderate net loss on the existing.

*SoccerCity plan: 4,800 homes, 2 stadiums, parks and commercial space at Q site*
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-soccerplan-20170217-story.html


----------



## askar9992

It would be awesome if all MLS teams had their own academy like in Europe beside NA drafting system... it would be awesome! 

Actually I don't belive draft system works in soccer at all.


----------



## Chevy114

I see what your saying and I agree, MLS does have to weigh out it's options, I don't blame anyone for wanting a bigger city first. The big fear has to be since Baseball 2 miles down the road doesn't work in St. Pete, whose to say Soccer will, but there are some positives: 1. Baseball averages about 5k during the week and about 20k on the weekend which works out well since Soccer plays most of their games on Saturdays. 2. That part of St. Pete is full of hipsters that like soccer more than baseball. 

The only reason I think the stadium follows the design to a T, is when they talked about it, old people in the condos right there demanded to not have their water views blocked. So the Rowdies had to promise not to build higher than the Theater next door. 

I do think you have a chance of tearing down the old section and make a carbon copy of the new section in it's place.


----------



## bd popeye

I looked up the Rays attendance and it is pitiful by MLB standards..only about 17,000 a home game. MLB average is about 30,000 a game.


----------



## Chevy114

double post


----------



## Chevy114

Yeah, but as I said the Rays average about 20k on the weekend and only about 5k during the week when no one has time to drive out there. So those numbers would explain the numbers you're showing.


----------



## The Game Is Up

John Ingram buys majority stake in Nashville SC, aligning efforts for MLS bid

http://www.tennessean.com/story/new...hville-sc-aligning-efforts-mls-bid/101278348/


FC Cincinnati’s Berding talks MLS expansion, team's slow start

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinna...nati-s-berding-talks-mls-expansion-teams.html


Phoenix Rising Football Club retains Goldman Sachs as Structuring Agent for MLS Soccer Stadium

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...g-agent-for-mls-soccer-stadium-300451139.html


----------



## The Game Is Up

Rowdies referendum win reinvigorates MLS push

http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay...es-referendum-win-reinvigorates-mls-push.html


----------



## The Game Is Up

Louisville City FC stadium project wants MLS in their Kentucky home

https://mlsmultiplex.com/2017/05/05...ium-project-wants-mls-in-their-kentucky-home/


----------



## BoulderGrad

Adrian Hanauer officially announces during half time of the Sounders vs Toronto FC game that Sounders 2 will leaving Star Fire Soccer to be moving to a soccer specific stadium in Tacoma on the site of Cheney Stadium.

http://www.sounderatheart.com/2017/5/6/15566446/s2-announces-plans-to-move-to-tacoma










Edit: Adding info.


----------



## Guest

As long as they're called Tacoma something, not Sounders 2, as indicated in the image. Even Tacoma Sounders. The 2 business needs to stop.


----------



## carnifex2005

5portsF4n said:


> As long as they're called Tacoma something, not Sounders 2, as indicated in the image. Even Tacoma Sounders. The 2 business needs to stop.


Tacoma Aroma FC. I like it.


----------



## Lumbergo

5portsF4n said:


> As long as they're called Tacoma something, not Sounders 2, as indicated in the image. Even Tacoma Sounders. The 2 business needs to stop.


THIS X a million! :cheers:


----------



## KingmanIII

5portsF4n said:


> As long as they're called Tacoma something, not Sounders 2, as indicated in the image. Even Tacoma Sounders. The 2 business needs to stop.


----------



## SounderBruce

Toyota already has quite the stranglehold on American soccer venues.

Toyota Tacoma Field, anyone?


----------



## The Game Is Up

http://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/2017/05/11/major-annoucnement/317635001/



> There could be a major announcement regarding Nashville's Major League Soccer future on Thursday afternoon at Nissan Stadium.
> 
> John Ingram, Chairman and CEO of Nashville Soccer Holdings, will join with leaders of Nashville’s bid for a MLS expansion team, along with a special guest celebrity, for a press conference to make a major announcement.
> 
> The press conference, which is scheduled for 4:30 p.m., will be held following a Nashville SC training session at 3:30.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Presumably they found another party to serve as a major financial backer. I don't think this will move them in the pecking order but it's at least nice to see more people offering these soft votes of confidence on MLS/pro soccer in the States.


----------



## The Game Is Up

> Nashville Soccer Holdings LLC has acquired a majority interest in DMD Soccer, owner of Nashville Soccer Club (Nashville SC) of the United Soccer League (USL). Nashville SC will debut in the USL in the 2018 season, delivering professional soccer to Music City and its passionate soccer fan base.
> 
> “Our effort to bring Major League Soccer (MLS) to Nashville and the mission of DMD Soccer are now jointly committed to elevate and expand professional soccer in Music City,” Ingram said. “We plan to give Nashville SC fans an exceptional soccer experience, starting with this season’s debut of the organization’s PDL team, which will lead to a successful debut in the USL as we continue to grow the game in Nashville at every level.”


https://www.mls2nashville.com/nashville-sc

https://twitter.com/NashvilleSC/with_replies


Inside Drogba’s road to Phoenix and his role in its promising MLS expansion bid

http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/sto...-berke-bakay-miami-san-diego-nashville-051117


----------



## Chevy114

I hope nashville gets in. 

Here are my top 4:
San Antonio
Nashville
Indy
Cincinnati if they get a stadium or Tampa if they don't.

What I think MLS will do:
Detroit
St. Louis
San Diego
Miami if they ever happen or Sacramento if they don't.


----------



## Franchise646

Chevy114 said:


> I hope nashville gets in.
> 
> Here are my top 4:
> San Antonio
> Nashville
> Indy
> Cincinnati if they get a stadium or Tampa if they don't.
> 
> What I think MLS will do:
> Detroit
> St. Louis
> San Diego
> Miami if they ever happen or Sacramento if they don't.


At this point Miami is lock to being number 24.

At this point this next 4 looks like it will 

Sacramento 
San Diego 
Detroit 
And maybe a Nashville as they are the only other team in the east that makes sense.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Chevy114 said:


> I hope nashville gets in.
> 
> Here are my top 4:
> San Antonio
> Nashville
> Indy
> Cincinnati if they get a stadium or Tampa if they don't.
> 
> What I think MLS will do:
> Detroit
> St. Louis
> San Diego
> Miami if they ever happen or Sacramento if they don't.


Count me among those thinking MLS deserves a good, hard slap in the nuts if they don't take Sacramento. Assuming the Republic and their investors are all resolved, of course. 

Nashville, meanwhile, is behind the curve compared to other offers. In the east Tampa, Indy, Carolina and Cincy all have to be rated more highly by virtue of existing team play and support with at least equal prospects for financial backing. 



Franchise646 said:


> At this point Miami is lock to being number 24.


Biting my own tongue I'm inclined to agree, if the stories of land acquisitions are correct. Granted, they may actually take the field at a later date than another option (say, Sacramento or Cincy), and for their sake I hope they don't try to start in whatever Dolphins Stadium is called these days. The last thing this team needs is a debut season in front of meager crowds in such a large venue.


----------



## Franchise646

GunnerJacket said:


> Count me among those thinking MLS deserves a good, hard slap in the nuts if they don't take Sacramento. Assuming the Republic and their investors are all resolved, of course.
> 
> Nashville, meanwhile, is behind the curve compared to other offers. In the east Tampa, Indy, Carolina and Cincy all have to be rated more highly by virtue of existing team play and support with at least equal prospects for financial backing.
> 
> Biting my own tongue I'm inclined to agree, if the stories of land acquisitions are correct. Granted, they may actually take the field at a later date than another option (say, Sacramento or Cincy), and for their sake I hope they don't try to start in whatever Dolphins Stadium is called these days. The last thing this team needs is a debut season in front of meager crowds in such a large venue.


In my opinion based on nothing... I think (a lot of fans on twitter want the name of the team to be Inter Miami / Miami International) could start in 2019, that seems doable.


----------



## JJG

Chevy114 said:


> I hope nashville gets in.
> 
> Here are my top 4:
> San Antonio
> Nashville
> Indy
> Cincinnati if they get a stadium or Tampa if they don't.
> 
> What I think MLS will do:
> Detroit
> St. Louis
> San Diego
> Miami if they ever happen or Sacramento if they don't.


MY top 4

San Antonio
Charlotte
Sacramento 
Tampa Bay

What I think MLS will do

Miami (pretty much locked)
Sacramento 
Detroit 
Indianapolis


----------



## bd popeye

opps..my bad


----------



## The Game Is Up

Local MLS committee adds names, star power

http://www.nashvillepost.com/sports...272/local-mls-committee-adds-names-star-power


----------



## ielag

JJG said:


> What I think MLS will do
> 
> Miami (pretty much locked)
> Sacramento
> Detroit
> Indianapolis


You need to add another city because Miami's spot is already accounted for right now.


----------



## JJG

ielag said:


> You need to add another city because Miami's spot is already accounted for right now.


That was implied by what I typed within the parentheses...


----------



## slipperydog

JJG said:


> That was implied by what I typed within the parentheses...


Miami is the 24th team. You would still need four more.


----------



## JJG

. . . ok?

San Antonio, then.


----------



## Chevy114

I'll believe Miami when I see it. I didn't want to do 5 because I honestly forgot Miami determines if we need 4 or 5 teams lol


----------



## Hia-leah JDM

David Beckham group unveils new Miami stadium plan












> David Beckham’s Miami negotiators unveiled an airy, open-roof stadium for Overtown Wednesday night, a retooled design that still sticks with the central premise that the 25,000-seat soccer venue doesn’t need parking facilities.
> 
> “We’re going to be encouraging the use of Metromover, Metrorail, water taxis, ride-sharing,” said Spencer Crowley, a lawyer and lobbyist representing Miami Beckham United in its talks with Miami-Dade to buy a parcel needed for its nine-acre stadium site near the Miami River. “We view this as a paradigm shift for the county as to how people get to large events.”





> With an investor on board, L.A. Dodgers co-owner Todd Boehly, the Beckham group is ready to buy the county land for $9 million under a no-bid deal using the state’s economic-development laws. As part of the deal, the Beckham group promised to create 50 permanent jobs at the stadium. Half would be required to pay Miami-Dade’s living wage of about $15 an hour.
> 
> “This is, frankly, I believe our last opportunity here for Miami to have Major League soccer,” said Carlos Gimenez, mayor of Miami-Dade County.
> 
> Miami Beckham United would own its stadium site, and is not pursuing the county subsidies pledged to Miami-Dade’s exiting three professional sports teams. “Every penny spent will be ours,” Leiweke said.


----------



## Chevy114

Finally seeing a rendering


----------



## Chevy114

For anyone confused about the Beckham journey in Miami and they stories behind the 4 different locations thought of:

http://deadspin.com/a-brief-history-of-david-beckhams-futile-attempts-to-bu-1795357337


----------



## Scba

Render has it right across the street from the old "Burn Notice" location


----------



## bd popeye

*San Diego State ends talks on sharing proposed MLS stadium*



> SAN DIEGO (AP) — There's another stadium flap in San Diego, and this one is threatening the future of San Diego State's football team.
> 
> The school said Tuesday it has cut off talks to share a stadium with a group that wants to attract an MLS team as the centerpiece of a billion dollar development at the site of aging Qualcomm Stadium in Mission Valley.
> 
> In a statement, the school said the city should pursue "a transparent" process to develop a plan for the 166-acre site.
> 
> That might not happen.
> 
> FS Investors unveiled plans for its SoccerCity development less than two weeks after the NFL's Chargers announced they were relocating to the Los Angeles area because voters overwhelmingly rejected their plan for a new downtown stadium.
> 
> On Jan. 31, MLS Commissioner Don Garber accepted FS Investors' application for an expansion team in a ceremony on the flight deck of the USS Midway Museum.
> 
> FS Investors collected more than 100,000 signatures for its initiative and the City Council could soon place it on the ballot for a special election in November.
> 
> SDSU had spoken with FS Investors for more than a year while also saying it wants a portion of the Qualcomm Stadium site to expand its campus.
> 
> Nick Stone of FS Investors said in a statement that SDSU's stance is "another sad chapter in the saga of departing university leadership moving the goal posts. Unbelievably, they continue to walk away from people trying to help them. It's clear this decision will jeopardize Aztec football."
> 
> The statement questioned the leadership of SDSU President Elliot Hirshman, who is leaving June 30 for another job. He will be replaced on an interim basis by Sally Roush, a longtime senior vice president.
> 
> "Despite this announcement, we stand ready to work with new leaders at SDSU to support the long-term goals of an institution we care about deeply," Stone said.
> 
> SDSU said it was ending talks with FS Investors because "a fair, equitable deal that would provide opportunity for the long-term success of SDSU and Aztec football, as well as a transparent deal for the citizens of San Diego, could not be reached.
> 
> "Recently, Mayor Kevin Faulconer reached out to SDSU in an attempt to facilitate a deal on behalf of SDSU with FS Investors. SDSU reiterated our offer to purchase land and to provide our fair share of infrastructure costs, but still no agreement could be reached," the school's statement said.
> 
> The dispute comes as SDSU hopes to fill the void left by the Chargers' departure. The Aztecs are coming off consecutive 11-3 seasons and a No. 25 ranking in the final Associated Press poll for the first time in 30 years. Coach Rocky Long has led them to bowl games in each of his six seasons, and they've played in seven straight overall.
> 
> Part of SDSU's dispute with FS Investors is over the size of the proposed stadium. FS Investors wants a smaller stadium while the Aztecs want a larger one, or one that could be easily expanded.
> 
> The city wants to close Qualcomm Stadium after the 2018 season.
> 
> SDSU athletic director J.D. Wicker has said SDSU is prepared to build a stadium on its own. The team could play temporarily at Petco Park, the downtown home of baseball's Padres.
> 
> "We have been very clear that the City cannot afford to keep Qualcomm Stadium open past 2018 and the Padres have clearly stated that the Aztecs can only play at Petco Park for one year after that," Matt Awbrey, a spokesman for Faulconer, said in an email to The Associated Press.
> 
> "While we are still willing to engage with SDSU, this decision has unfortunately put the university in a situation where this process will move forward without their involvement."


----------



## The Game Is Up

FC Dallas Releases Updated National Soccer Hall of Fame Timeline and Renderings

https://www.fcdallas.com/post/2017/...onal-soccer-hall-fame-timeline-and-renderings


----------



## JJG

The Game Is Up said:


> FC Dallas Releases Updated National Soccer Hall of Fame Timeline and Renderings
> 
> https://www.fcdallas.com/post/2017/...onal-soccer-hall-fame-timeline-and-renderings


Even I'm still surprised that the National Soccer HoF is in Frisco...


----------



## GunnerJacket

The old HOF in Oneonta, NY, was shuttered and most of the effects had been languishing in a warehouse. All it took was someone willing to pay for a facility and they could have the museum. FCD wanted more appeal to their facility as a destination, sooo...

It's far from ideal but the options were nothing and still nothing, so something wins. I just wish that the museum wasn't directly attached to some team's stadium, and (by many accounts) a sub par one at that. Maybe over time both will grow and it will become more appealing.


----------



## Chevy114

Frisco for the Soccer HOF is a bigger shock than Nascar choosing Charolette over Daytona, but then again where would we put the HOF? I couldn't name a city that stands out as the Soccer capital of this country.

P.S. I love that we know that Abner Doubleday didn't invent baseball and yet we still give him and Cooperstown so much love!


----------



## JJG

Chevy114 said:


> Frisco for the Soccer HOF is a bigger shock than Nascar choosing Charolette over Daytona...


Well... Charlotte has two things over Daytona:

- North Carolina is the birthplace of NASCAR 
- Charlotte is a much larger city (...I'll admit, that may not mean as much, but it's a bonus)


----------



## GunnerJacket

Charlotte is also the home of, what, 75% of the racing teams and their shops?

Frisco as the home of the soccer HOF is as random as one could get, but it is what it is now so c'est la vie. For me the most important thing is that the sport grows strong enough that they outgrow the current facility as a sign of popularity and prosperity.


----------



## The Game Is Up

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlott...ng-buzz-new-details-of-competing-mls-bid.html



> As Major League Soccer officials consider a dozen cities — including Charlotte — for an upcoming expansion, a closer look at one of the competing bids has emerged. The Cincinnati Business Courier, a sister publication to the CBJ, reports officials there have chosen a location and landed financing for a soccer-specific stadium. Meanwhile, Charlotte's bid, led by Speedway Motorsports (NYSE:TRK) CEO Marcus Smith, is still on the hunt for the funding piece. CBJ's Erik Spanberg reported last month that informal talks have resumed between the local bid group and city officials on the possibility of investing public dollars on the project.



It's official: FC Cincinnati moves forward on stadium plan

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinna...-official-fc-cincinnati-moves-forward-on.html



> FC Cincinnati has narrowed its search to three neighborhoods in the region, Berding said: Over-the-Rhine/West End, Oakley and Newport. He has previously told me the club is looking at a site at Taft High School in the West End and he mentioned the Ovation site on the Newport riverfront where the Ohio and Licking rivers meet. FC Cincinnati is also considering sites such as the Milacron site near Oakley Station. But he said the club is considering multiple sites in those neighborhoods.
> 
> “Those are the (neighborhoods) we feel are most viable,” Berding said.
> 
> He didn’t identify specific sites because FC Cincinnati doesn’t control those sites yet.
> 
> Nippert Stadium at the University of Cincinnati, where FC Cincinnati plays now, won’t work for FC Cincinnati to win an expansion franchise, Berding said.
> 
> “We love Nippert, we’ve spent millions of dollars to improve it and we’ll seek to play here as long as we can,” Berding said. “However, we have an MLS expansion bid with 12 cities. Of those 12 cities, we’re the smallest market. The feeling is we will not win a bid to get one of those expansion franchises without our own stadium. Would we win a bid to bring MLS to Cincinnati? No, we would not.”
> 
> He also said Paul Brown Stadium, home of the Cincinnati Bengals, wouldn’t work because the Bengals have it to themselves based on the lease with Hamilton County. And MLS wants teams to own their stadium and control all of its revenue streams. That wouldn’t be the case at Paul Brown Stadium.
> 
> “We’d be looking for something that’s not there,” Berding said.
> 
> FC Cincinnati believes its ownership group stacks up against any competing bids and it has proven its ability to generate fan support. The club broke several United Soccer League records last year in its inaugural season.
> 
> “This (stadium) is the last piece for us,” Berding said.
> 
> Berding said the stadium wouldn’t just be used by FC Cincinnati or even only for soccer. He envisions the possibility of hosting Xavier University or University of Cincinnati matches, the high school state tournament or U.S. National Team games. The club has already talked to promoters about hosting concerts there, too.
> 
> Berding said public financing makes sense because the club has proven to be a major attraction to young people.
> 
> “FC Cincinnati is part of the renaissance that’s occurring in our city,” Berding said.



Four months later, what’s next for Charlotte’s Major League Soccer bid?

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article152678059.html



LAFC's $30-million commitment to training complex at Cal State L.A. is third-highest in MLS history

http://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-lafc-facility-20170525-story.html


----------



## aaronniuk

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jun/06/david-beckham-miami-soccer-stadium-approved-mls

Puzzle complete.



_The Miami-Dade Commission voted on Tuesday to approve a deal to sell David Beckhams group nearly three acres of county land, representing a major hurdle cleared in the former England and Manchester United stars push to bring a Major League Soccer team to the city.

The commissioners voted nine to four in favor to ratify a recommendation by the mayor to sell Beckhams partnership a county truck-depot at the corner of Northwest Sixth Street and Sixth Avenue, which would become the last piece in a nine-acre site for a planned 25,000-seat stadium on the Miami River._


----------



## GunnerJacket

Sidebar deleted for language and attitude. 

Stay on topic or at least keep it civil, folks. Thank you.


----------



## Lumbergo

5portsF4n said:


> Pretty much. And it's such a fine line as well. The difference between a full 19k seater and a 23k in a 25k is night and day. I'd prefer every MLS stadium to be 18-20k. I dunno what the fascination is with people wanting to get into the 30k range. If that capacity range is good for the NBA, it's good enough for MLS. Especially when we're heading towards a league that has 30+ teams.


18K - 25K seems ideal but I believe teams should at least give themselves the option of expanding upwards to 30K+ if the need were to arise (as in, design the stadiums to be expandable) - rather than having to build a new stadium after 10-15 years or having thousands waiting on a season ticket list.


----------



## pesto

Lumbergo said:


> 18K - 25K seems ideal but I believe teams should at least give themselves the option of expanding upwards to 30K+ if the need were to arise (as in, design the stadiums to be expandable) - rather than having to build a new stadium after 10-15 years or having thousands waiting on a season ticket list.


Yes, this makes sense. But we are moving to the age where team value is a function of broadcast revenues, and butts in seats is more valuable for the image in portrays on the screen than the actual dollars people paid to get there. Just think of the 22k in the seats vs. the 8 billion potential viewers with, say, 2 billion of them with disposable income.

I have said this before, but I have heard sports VC's kid about the day when they can just fill in the stands digitally and avoid the nuisance of having real people in the stadium.


----------



## ObiUbamba

hngcm said:


> San Diego's chances take a hit as the city council voted 8-1 to deny 5 million for a special election.
> 
> If they wait until 2018 then the MLS will likely pass the city.
> 
> http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...ment/sd-fi-electionbudget-20170605-story.html
> 
> Mayor will veto but will probably be overwritten.


That's unfortunate for them. With this and the issues facing St Louis and Charlotte, the Rowdies must be in a good position to get a spot in the MLS. A privately funded renovation of a relatively successful and stable USL club with name recognition must be a good bet in comparison with the issues these other teams are facing.


----------



## aquamaroon

^^ Yep, I'd agree there, though if the Miami Beckhams really can come through then I think they wouldn't do two expansion teams in Florida.

As of now, if the MLS does expand to four new clubs, here's my guess for the four:

- Sacramento
- Cincinnati
- Detroit
- Miami/Tampa

Sacramento and Cincinnati seem like they're full steam ahead with soccer, Detroit a little less so with securing the land. If Detroit doesn't come through then I could see both Florida cities getting teams, though there may be a wildcard like Phoenix, etc.


----------



## Franchise646

aquamaroon said:


> ^^ Yep, I'd agree there, though if the Miami Beckhams really can come through then I think they wouldn't do two expansion teams in Florida.
> 
> As of now, if the MLS does expand to four new clubs, here's my guess for the four:
> 
> - Sacramento
> - Cincinnati
> - Detroit
> - Miami/Tampa
> 
> Sacramento and Cincinnati seem like they're full steam ahead with soccer, Detroit a little less so with securing the land. If Detroit doesn't come through then I could see both Florida cities getting teams, though there may be a wildcard like Phoenix, etc.


You are missing one. Miami would be 24, if they don't happen (which at this point it will) then you need 24, 25, 26, 27, & 28.


----------



## aquamaroon

Ah gotcha! Thanks :cheers: so it's not an either/or then. So, for this round of expansion my guess for the best positioned cities as of now would be:

- Sacramento
- Cincinnati
- Detroit
- Tampa

Tampa may suffer if MLS is wary of three teams in Florida, but at the same time I think they feel the need to establish a stronger brand in the East (as of now the MLS feels a little Western heavy in terms of marquee brands and what have you). So if the choice is between Tampa and say, a fifth California team or one in Arizona, if everything else is equal I could see them going with Tampa.


----------



## Franchise646

aquamaroon said:


> Ah gotcha! Thanks :cheers: so it's not an either/or then. So, for this round of expansion my guess for the best positioned cities as of now would be:
> 
> - Sacramento
> - Cincinnati
> - Detroit
> - Tampa
> 
> Tampa may suffer if MLS is wary of three teams in Florida, but at the same time I think they feel the need to establish a stronger brand in the East (as of now the MLS feels a little Western heavy in terms of marquee brands and what have you). So if the choice is between Tampa and say, a fifth California team or one in Arizona, if everything else is equal I could see them going with Tampa.


While I agree with a lot of your points, it feels like it will be two in the east and Two in the west and the cost of Cincinnati. If San Diego get there heads on straight they are in. Otherwise San Antoino look pretty strong.


----------



## pesto

All this worry about Sacramento, Cincinnati, Tampa, St. Louis, etc., is happening while Real Madrid and Man City are playing in LA with resale tickets (that I have seen) as high as $500 and broadcast rights worth how much? And there is basically no one from Manchester or Madrid living in LA. And who knows who will actually be playing; it's the brand people are coming to see.

Soccer is a product, just like cars, handhelds, movies. The dominant brands are the Europeans. But given US marketing skills, capital and brands (NY, Hollywood, LA, Las Vegas, Dallas, Miami, etc.) to attract investors there is no reason the US can't capture a good hunk of this market. Billions of people.

I would like to see some clearer commitment on MLS's part to defending the top end of the market and establishing brands outside the US. It is less obvious to me that defending against smaller US leagues is a priority.


----------



## Franchise646

pesto said:


> All this worry about Sacramento, Cincinnati, Tampa, St. Louis, etc., is happening while Real Madrid and Man City are playing in LA with resale tickets (that I have seen) as high as $500 and broadcast rights worth how much? And there is basically no one from Manchester or Madrid living in LA. And who knows who will actually be playing; it's the brand people are coming to see.
> 
> Soccer is a product, just like cars, handhelds, movies. The dominant brands are the Europeans. But given US marketing skills, capital and brands (NY, Hollywood, LA, Las Vegas, Dallas, Miami, etc.) to attract investors there is no reason the US can't capture a good hunk of this market. Billions of people.
> 
> I would like to see some clearer commitment on MLS's part to defending the top end of the market and establishing brands outside the US. It is less obvious to me that defending against smaller US leagues is a priority.


MLS' top Brands right now are LA Galaxy, the Sounders, NYCFC and the Timbers. When they come into the league you can say LAFC and Miami will be top brands. What would you do to promote those brands more aside form giving them time to grow.

Edit I think Atlanta will be one as well.


----------



## Chevy114

I think Orlando is a hidden favorite of the MLS because of that great stadium that's always packed and the fact that they started the same year as NYCFC which makes them rivals some how.


----------



## Franchise646

Chevy114 said:


> I think Orlando is a hidden favorite of the MLS because of that great stadium that's always packed and the fact that they started the same year as NYCFC which makes them rivals some how.


Yeah but as a NYCFC fan we don't think of them as rivals.


----------



## Guest

aquamaroon said:


> I think they feel the need to establish a stronger brand in the East (as of now the MLS feels a little Western heavy in terms of marquee brands and what have you). So if the choice is between Tampa and say, a fifth California team or one in Arizona, if everything else is equal I could see them going with Tampa.


This makes zero sense. Orlando, Atlanta, NYCFC, Toronto are as good as if not better than anything the west has (SKC, Portland, Seattle, LA).


----------



## soup or man

5portsF4n said:


> This makes zero sense. Orlando, Atlanta, NYCFC, Toronto are as good as if not better than anything the west has (SKC, Portland, Seattle, LA).


That's debatable when you consider that the strongest teams in the MLS are out west. The Galaxy have 5 championships with the most recent being in 2014. DC United has 4 with the last one being in 2004. San Jose, Houston, and Sporting Kansas City (Wizards) each have two championships. Seattle, Portland, Colorado, Salt Lake City each have one. Chicago and Columbus are the only eastern teams with championships.


----------



## GunnerJacket

aquamaroon said:


> Tampa may suffer if MLS is wary of three teams in Florida, but at the same time I think they feel the need to establish a stronger brand in the East...


MLS won't be wary of them simply because of "_3 teams in Fla_." If anything the influence of state lines will continue to be less impactful going forward (for most sports leagues) because urban confluences will be ever more important. Both for TV viewership and for local attendance issues. If anything the prospect for more natural rivalries might make them and Sacramento all the more appealing if the markets demonstrate that level of true local support that is the hallmark of MLS' strongest teams.

The national brand appeal and TV draw, meanwhile, will likely be less dependent on the spectre of the team versus the pop-culture celebrity status. MLS can add all the Tampa's and Sacramento's they want but for now it will take something along the lines of a Beckham-lead Galaxy to reach the casual US sports fan. Even Seattle with Dempsey has garnered only the most modest appeal in that regard, so in order to make that next leap MLS will need something other than new markets. They'll need celebrity players, they'll need some notable wins from the USMNT, and they'll need more teams to evolve to Portland and TFC levels of support (where the team is at least more important locally) before they can really grow as a TV product.

I feel, anyway.



pesto said:


> Soccer is a product, just like cars, handhelds, movies. The dominant brands are the Europeans. But given US marketing skills, capital and brands (NY, Hollywood, LA, Las Vegas, Dallas, Miami, etc.) to attract investors there is no reason the US can't capture a good hunk of this market. Billions of people.
> 
> I would like to see some clearer commitment on MLS's part to defending the top end of the market and establishing brands outside the US. It is less obvious to me that defending against smaller US leagues is a priority.


MLS is handicapped in this regard because a) it's competing against so many other sporting priorities here in the US, and b) no other soccer brands around the world, for at least a generation, will likely be able to compete with European teams because those clubs have not only stronger domestic leagues but the all powerful UEFA Champions League. So a (blech!) Madrid can lift 2 or 3 highly regarded trophies in a single season, whereas casual US fans don't really know about the Open Cup and MLS can't yet top their Mexican peers in the CONCACAF Champions League. Until they make waves in the latter I don't think the league/teams will make significant headway as global brands. 



5portsF4n said:


> This makes zero sense. Orlando, Atlanta, NYCFC, Toronto are as good as if not better than anything the west has (SKC, Portland, Seattle, LA).


Methinks he means as a world wide marketable asset. Right now MLS has very little global presence outside of the Galaxy and Sounders. Even NYC and Red Bull are regarded as mere curiosities. Orlando and Atlanta are fresh enough that I'd wager most international fans still don't know the teams exist.


----------



## Guest

soup or man said:


> That's debatable when you consider that the strongest teams in the MLS are out west. The Galaxy have 5 championships with the most recent being in 2014. DC United has 4 with the last one being in 2004. San Jose, Houston, and Sporting Kansas City (Wizards) each have two championships. Seattle, Portland, Colorado, Salt Lake City each have one. Chicago and Columbus are the only eastern teams with championships.


Well, championships arent important to branding in MLS as they are in European leagues. Despite 20 years of history, there still isnt 'history'. It is a young league. Which is why upstarts lafc are going to be more relevant in la than 5-time champion gals.

Branding in mls is highly correlated to how their stadium looks on tv. In fact, outside of being in ny or la, it is the most important thing. Name, colors, logo all play their part too. 

In mature sports league, championships and market size are the biggest factors


----------



## soup or man

5portsF4n said:


> Well, championships arent important to branding in MLS as they are in European leagues. Despite 20 years of history, there still isnt 'history'. It is a young league. Which is why upstarts lafc are going to be more relevant in la than 5-time champion gals.


Again debatable. The Galaxy are far and away the most important team in MLS regardless of how good LAFC has been in terms of establishing itself. The Galaxy has been paramount at helping ALL of MLS grow. This was even before Beckham joined.


----------



## aquamaroon

GunnerJacket said:


> Methinks he means as a world wide marketable asset. Right now MLS has very little global presence outside of the Galaxy and Sounders. Even NYC and Red Bull are regarded as mere curiosities. Orlando and Atlanta are fresh enough that I'd wager most international fans still don't know the teams exist


Yep that's what I was getting at :cheers:, when it comes to "strong brands" in the MLS a majority of them are out west; Sounders/Timbers/Galaxy immediately come to mind. Though as you say, Orlando and Atlanta are looking like they are going to be huge successes, and Toronto is making noise in their newly renovated stadium, so we may already be seeing the league starting to even out its marketable footprint.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

5portsF4n said:


> This makes zero sense. Orlando, Atlanta, NYCFC, Toronto are as good as if not better than anything the west has (SKC, Portland, Seattle, LA).


Youre talking about 1/2 a season, hes talking about the history of the league


----------



## MarkJF

GunnerJacket said:


> I feel, anyway.
> 
> MLS is handicapped in this regard because a) it's competing against so many other sporting priorities here in the US, and b) no other soccer brands around the world, for at least a generation, will likely be able to compete with European teams because those clubs have not only stronger domestic leagues but the all powerful UEFA Champions League. So a (blech!) Madrid can lift 2 or 3 highly regarded trophies in a single season, whereas casual US fans don't really know about the Open Cup and MLS can't yet top their Mexican peers in the CONCACAF Champions League. Until they make waves in the latter I don't think the league/teams will make significant headway as global brands.


But USA culture, sporting or otherwise still holds huge sway in Europe. We don't care, and never will, about your "other" sports, it's all about football. I don't think you have to make waves, this side, everybody knows where David Villa plays, hardly anybody would know where Oscar plays, or Ramirez, or even if they were dead or alive. IMO global branding will come far easier and quicker to MLS clubs than to the monied Chinese.


----------



## Guest

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> Youre talking about 1/2 a season, hes talking about the history of the league


This is a league where a year of existence can elevate brands values above those that have been there from day one. The west/east brand value is not imbalanced, nowhere near it.


----------



## Guest

MarkJF said:


> But USA culture, sporting or otherwise still holds huge sway in Europe. We don't care, and never will, about your "other" sports, it's all about football. I don't think you have to make waves, this side, everybody knows where David Villa plays, hardly anybody would know where Oscar plays, or Ramirez, or even if they were dead or alive. IMO global branding will come far easier and quicker to MLS clubs than to the monied Chinese.


Please dont talk about europe as if being a european is actually a thing. Sporting cultures vary wildly from country to country. Wildly. Basketball is hugely popular across, in particular across the south. Hockey is very popular in the north. the only sport we can agree on that europe doesnt a shit about is baseball. 

More people in europe care about the NBA than MLS, thats not even debatable. That the nba is niche is britain doesnt represent the other 500 million people.


----------



## Rover030

5portsF4n said:


> Please dont talk about europe as if being a european is actually a thing. Sporting cultures vary wildly from country to country. Wildly. Basketball is hugely popular across, in particular across the south. Hockey is very popular in the north. the only sport we can agree on that europe doesnt a shit about is baseball.
> 
> More people in europe care about the NBA than MLS, thats not even debatable. That the nba is niche is britain doesnt represent the other 500 million people.


Even in the Netherlands, where basketball is very niche and where football is the biggest sport by far, more people care about NBA than MLS. But that's because like you and GunnerJacket said, MLS lacks prestige and history. Almost nobody who cares about football cares about MLS, even though the level is probably not worse than our domestic league. 

NBA does have prestige and history, so anyone who likes basketball watches it (if it's not in the middle of the night).


----------



## Guest

Rover030 said:


> Even in the Netherlands, where basketball is very niche and where football is the biggest sport by far, more people care about NBA than MLS. But that's because like you and GunnerJacket said, MLS lacks prestige and history. Almost nobody who cares about football cares about MLS, even though the level is probably not worse than our domestic league.
> 
> NBA does have prestige and history, so anyone who likes basketball watches it (if it's not in the middle of the night).


Thats it yeah. Englishmen dont take that much interest in la liga. Spaniards dont take much interest in epl. 

There are a lot of basketball fans in europe, and anyone whos a bball fan probably follows nba. Anyone whos a soccer fan follows a) their domestic league and b) one of the big leagues.


----------



## Gelato

So amazing


----------



## pesto

Franchise646 said:


> MLS' top Brands right now are LA Galaxy, the Sounders, NYCFC and the Timbers. When they come into the league you can say LAFC and Miami will be top brands. What would you do to promote those brands more aside form giving them time to grow.
> 
> Edit I think Atlanta will be one as well.


Glad you asked. Of course this is the $100B question, but some basics:

First, you deal with Trump and Congress to keep other leagues out of the US market. It would be easy to use the antitrust and unfair competition laws to do this. This allows for better bargaining re the rest of the world.

You establish PR offices in the major world markets and focus on the major teams and major stars playing in the US.

You ban any franchise that isn't spending money on building value from playing (or otherwise obtaining revenue) from the efforts of those who are building brand value.

You get franchises in major cities out of the hands of loafers and into the hands of VC brand managers who are hungry.

Many other ideas, but of course implementing them in the context of a majority of small town franchises is tough.

Btw, I don't claim this works overnight; a decade or two minimum.


----------



## Franchise646

pesto said:


> Glad you asked. Of course this is the $100B question, but some basics:
> 
> First, you deal with Trump and Congress to keep other leagues out of the US market. It would be easy to use the antitrust and unfair competition laws to do this. This allows for better bargaining re the rest of the world.
> 
> You establish PR offices in the major world markets and focus on the major teams and major stars playing in the US.
> 
> You ban any franchise that isn't spending money on building value from playing (or otherwise obtaining revenue) from the efforts of those who are building brand value.
> 
> You get franchises in major cities out of the hands of loafers and into the hands of VC brand managers who are hungry.
> 
> Many other ideas, but of course implementing them in the context of a majority of small town franchises is tough.
> 
> Btw, I don't claim this works overnight; a decade or two minimum.


Aside for the first one, everything they are already doing.


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> The national brand appeal and TV draw, meanwhile, will likely be less dependent on the spectre of the team versus the pop-culture celebrity status. MLS can add all the Tampa's and Sacramento's they want but for now it will take something along the lines of a Beckham-lead Galaxy to reach the casual US sports fan. Even Seattle with Dempsey has garnered only the most modest appeal in that regard, so in order to make that next leap MLS will need something other than new markets. They'll need celebrity players, they'll need some notable wins from the USMNT, and they'll need more teams to evolve to Portland and TFC levels of support (where the team is at least more important locally) before they can really grow as a TV product.
> 
> I feel, anyway.
> 
> MLS is handicapped in this regard because a) it's competing against so many other sporting priorities here in the US, and b) no other soccer brands around the world, for at least a generation, will likely be able to compete with European teams because those clubs have not only stronger domestic leagues but the all powerful UEFA Champions League. So a (blech!) Madrid can lift 2 or 3 highly regarded trophies in a single season, whereas casual US fans don't really know about the Open Cup and MLS can't yet top their Mexican peers in the CONCACAF Champions League. Until they make waves in the latter I don't think the league/teams will make significant headway as global brands.
> 
> Methinks he means as a world wide marketable asset. Right now MLS has very little global presence outside of the Galaxy and Sounders. Even NYC and Red Bull are regarded as mere curiosities. Orlando and Atlanta are fresh enough that I'd wager most international fans still don't know the teams exist.


Basically agree with all of this. MLS has many problems but none of them seem to be addressed by adding small market teams that have competent but not rich, aggressive, cut-throat ownership. In fact, the other US major leagues are fighting the battle of removing these merely competent owners from decision making positions.

As you imply, the US is fairly saturated with sports entertainment. Europe is a tough sell but you don't need to be the only name: if you get talked about in the same conversation with MU, MC, Real, Barca, etc., you have already won. You are just looking for people to recognize the name and think, oh yeah, they're pretty good.

Ditto for the rest of the world. Establish the brand and you can attract the broadcasters and sports entrepreneurs.


----------



## pesto

Franchise646 said:


> Aside for the first one, everything they are already doing.


You could be right, but they have to do it one hell of a lot better.


----------



## ielag

Franchise646 said:


> While I agree with a lot of your points, it feels like it will be two in the east and Two in the west and the cost of Cincinnati. If San Diego get there heads on straight they are in. Otherwise San Antoino look pretty strong.


I wouldn't count out Phoenix. The Phoenix Rising ownership group has done a great job in a short time in the USL. They're already looking at expanding their temporary stadium and that is certainly a big and diverse market.

And let's face it, in a couple years, MLS will announce they'll expand to 32 teams by no later than 2030.


----------



## Chevy114

I always think its interesting to hear Euro fans here in America that are shocked at how good MLS is. I always thought it was very competitive and that it's closed minded to think the teams would be like the Washington Generals (that team that always loses to the Harlem Globetrotters) or something and they would be all the reject amateurs who shouldn't be allowed to be called professionals. But I'm very glad people are finally starting to realize the potential.


----------



## Chevy114

Franchise646 said:


> I don't think we are going to build 40-50k seat stadiums, any time in the near - far future. One of the things that MLS has going for it are that these boutique stadiums make for better atmosphere. Plus we are at point where stadiums are big studios for the TV / streaming products that sports have become. Keep the stadiums small, cheap to make, with great atmosphere and they make for great TV as well as great game day.


Sorry to bring up an old point, but just remembered I asked it. I feel bad when I say it, but I often times compared American Soccer to minor league baseball. I think MLS big wigs cringe every time someone says it. But I like how small the stadiums feel compared to other American sports and I love the atmosphere. Very seldom do you see supporter groups in other American sports and very seldom do you feel you can afford seats that are good in most pro level sports. Both are really nice touches that pro sports in America don't think make a difference. 

So back to my original point, I'm just glad we aren't at the point where the owners feel like bigger stadiums would keep the excitement! I would hate to see the MLS try to do 50K stadiums thinking it's what the fans want or it would enhance the fan experience.


----------



## Franchise646

Chevy114 said:


> Sorry to bring up an old point, but just remembered I asked it. I feel bad when I say it, but I often times compared American Soccer to minor league baseball. I think MLS big wigs cringe every time someone says it. But I like how small the stadiums feel compared to other American sports and I love the atmosphere. Very seldom do you see supporter groups in other American sports and very seldom do you feel you can afford seats that are good in most pro level sports. Both are really nice touches that pro sports in America don't think make a difference.
> 
> So back to my original point, I'm just glad we aren't at the point where the owners feel like bigger stadiums would keep the excitement! I would hate to see the MLS try to do 50K stadiums thinking it's what the fans want or it would enhance the fan experience.


And that was part of the point I was making, the future of sport isn't big stadiums it's TV & streaming? Stadiums are form the most part glorified TV studios. MLS gets that they dome need Big stadiums, they need great atmosphere so the game is for those there but most of all looks great on TV.


----------



## pesto

Chevy114 said:


> I always think its interesting to hear* Euro fans here in America that are shocked at how good MLS is*. I always thought it was very competitive and that it's closed minded to think the teams would be like the Washington Generals (that team that always loses to the Harlem Globetrotters) or something and they would be all the reject amateurs who shouldn't be allowed to be called professionals. But I'm very glad people are finally starting to realize the potential.


I would guess that they had a REALLY low opinion and were converting it to a low opinion. A good way to put it is that there is potential. But you only need to watch 2 minutes of passing to see that there are different levels of skill involved.

Please, no obscene comments. :lol:


----------



## nyrmetros

So San Diego is in trouble?


----------



## GunnerJacket

They're certainly behind the curve compared to some other candidates, yes. As of right now I'd say they're on the outside looking in.


----------



## bd popeye

On a happier note FC Cincinnati is averaging 19,415 through seven home matches.


----------



## The Game Is Up

St. Paul Soccer Stadium Groundbreaking Now Set for this Week

http://kstp.com/news/st-paul-midway...reaking-st-paul-port-authority/4510541/?cat=1


----------



## Fabio1976

5portsF4n said:


> Thats it yeah. Englishmen dont take that much interest in la liga. Spaniards dont take much interest in epl.
> 
> There are a lot of basketball fans in europe, and anyone whos a bball fan probably follows nba. Anyone whos a soccer fan follows a) their domestic league and b) one of the big leagues.


I am Italian and I love the MLS (forza NYCFC !!!), I always watch it on Eurosport and I absolutely don't care the NBA, NFL, NHL and MLB.


----------



## Guest

Fabio1976 said:


> I am Italian and I love the MLS (forza NYCFC !!!), I always watch it on Eurosport and I absolutely don't care the NBA, NFL, NHL and MLB.


Thanks for that anecdotal story that represents the views of 500-700 million people.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Charlotte MLS bid suffers another penalty kick

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2017/06/12/local-mls-bid-suffers-another-penalty-kick.html


----------



## krnboy1009

The Game Is Up said:


> Charlotte MLS bid suffers another penalty kick
> 
> http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2017/06/12/local-mls-bid-suffers-another-penalty-kick.html


Well, North Carolina still got the Raleigh bid.


----------



## hngcm

nyrmetros said:


> So San Diego is in trouble?


Yup.

This city can't get anything done. 

They just voted not to put the Convention Center expansion up for a vote and it was split along party lines 5-4. 

They're voting on Soccer City next week and it'll likely be the same result


----------



## amadora2700

http://kstp.com/news/st-paul-midway...reaking-st-paul-port-authority/4510541/?cat=1

An actual ground breaking is happening this week.


----------



## will101

hngcm said:


> Yup.
> 
> This city can't get anything done.
> 
> They just voted not to put the Convention Center expansion up for a vote and it was split along party lines 5-4.
> 
> They're voting on Soccer City next week and it'll likely be the same result


Stop me before I vote again.


----------



## Chevy114

So Minn. is in MLS right? Or do they start in a few years?


----------



## Franchise646

Chevy114 said:


> So Minn. is in MLS right? Or do they start in a few years?


Yes they are already playing


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Rover030 said:


> Even in the Netherlands, where basketball is very niche and where football is the biggest sport by far, more people care about NBA than MLS. But that's because like you and GunnerJacket said, MLS lacks prestige and history. Almost nobody who cares about football cares about MLS, even though the level is probably not worse than our domestic league.
> 
> NBA does have prestige and history, so anyone who likes basketball watches it (if it's not in the middle of the night).


That said, when MLS does eventually grow (in my opinion it lacks stars and quality play rather than prestige and history), it will have the advantage of good hours. A significant number of matches seem to happen in the Western European evening, while NBA always seems to be happening late at night during sleep time. I am certainly looking forward to it (but I've been looking forward to it for more than half a decade now and little has changed).


----------



## JJG

hngcm said:


> Yup.
> 
> This city can't get anything done.
> 
> They just voted not to put the Convention Center expansion up for a vote and it was split along party lines 5-4.
> 
> They're voting on Soccer City next week and it'll likely be the same result


As an outsider, it doesn't seem as if they're not trying, rather that they just don't care anymore...


----------



## The Game Is Up

Triangle’s MLS bid moving right along, quietly – DeCock

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/luke-decock/article155982829.html


Inverted Triangle: NCFC, NC Courage owner Steve Malik opens up in 1-on-1

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/soccer/audio/16734909/


----------



## Guest

Cincinnati put on another good show for expansion. Beat Columbus. 30k to the Open Cup?!? 

Loved the contrast of orange/blue to the Crew supporters' yellow.


----------



## soup or man

I thought this was a cool pic.


----------



## bd popeye

*FC* Cincinnati defeats Columbus Crew FC 1 nill before 30,160 at Nippert Stadium in Cincinnati Ohio.











I don't get "extra time" but what the hell.. it's soccer...that's how they roll.


----------



## tinyslam

bd popeye said:


> I don't get "extra time" but what the hell.. it's soccer...that's how they roll.


Since the clock runs continuously throughout the game, the "extra time" (or stoppage time) is added on to reclaim some of the time lost while the clock was running but no action was taking place. Think of an injured player going down and how much time it takes to get them up or off of the field. The clock is running that whole time so at the end of the half they add some time back. Also substitutions take time. It's usually not as much time as was spent, but it's something.

Good for FC Cincinnati for beating Columbus in front of a huge crowd. In other upsets in the 4th round of the US Open Cup Miami FC beat Orlando City and Sacramento Republic beat RSL. Luckily Atlanta United was able to fight back after a 2.5 hour rain delay and an early goal by Charleston.


----------



## bd popeye

Thank you.^^ I did know that. I just don't agree with it. I just don't understand why after 90 minutes of play the clock does not stop. Simple as that.


----------



## tinyslam

bd popeye said:


> Thank you.^^ I did know that. I just don't agree with it. I just don't understand why after 90 minutes of play the clock does not stop. Simple as that.


The actual clock (the one at the stadium) does stop, but tv shows you a running clock so you know approximately how much time is left.


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> Cincinnati put on another good show for expansion. Beat Columbus. 30k to the Open Cup?!?
> 
> Loved the contrast of orange/blue to the Crew supporters' yellow.


FCC may very well have launched themselves into MLS last night. I realize it was a derby and a rare shot for them but that's still wicked cool that they packed 30k for the match. If I'm MLS I don't want to drain USL of their best-supported teams but Cincy clearly wanted this one and you have to appreciate that they stepped up when in the spotlight.



bd popeye said:


> Thank you.^^ I did know that. I just don't agree with it. I just don't understand why after 90 minutes of play the clock does not stop. Simple as that.


Obviously you need a mechanism that allows for the variations in need, since some games barely have cause for added time and others beg for plenty of it. But the main answer to your query is two reasons, one historic and one modern. 

In the past there would be an official game clock in the stadium people would use to track the game. Everyone knew you had to account for pauses that might be given for injuries and such but there was no efficient mechanism to communicate between the ref and the clock operator. At least, not as easily as devised now and certainly not in a universal approach for every club, big or small. So the clock would run and then the referee would simply tell them how much time to add on at the end based on his discretion. 

The modern caution is this: Stalwarts of the game don't want to introduce formal stoppages or interruptions that might someday regress into calls for quarter breaks. Certain TV folks and the like would love to find a way to get more sponsors involved, but fans (including yours truly) would absolutely hate the idea. Keeping a running clock, even with an unknown amount to be added at the end, provides everyone with an understanding of the pace and length of the match. And if we're being honest, the added time for a soccer match means you're still more likely to know when it will actually end versus the conventional NBA or NFL game with its time-outs and clock stoppages. _("I'll be right there, honey. Only 30 seconds on the clock!" *wink wink*)_ So there are powers that be in the game that will never allow the 45 minute half to feature a stopped clock.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Cincinnati hosts Chicago in the next round. Should they advance they'll face the winner of Atlanta at Miami, with the home team TBD. 

This means, Popeye, we might have a shared interest in a match sooner rather than later! :eek2:

What size Atlanta United jersey should I pick out for you?! :colgate:


----------



## bd popeye

GunnerJacket said:


> Cincinnati hosts Chicago in the next round. Should they advance they'll face the winner of Atlanta at Miami, with the home team TBD.
> 
> This means, Popeye, we might have a shared interest in a match sooner rather than later! :eek2:
> 
> What size Atlanta United jersey should I pick out for you?! :colgate:


Oh a wise Guy!!!.....Ok..I'm gonna sick this FC Cincinnati supporter on ya'..






Dude needs a girlfriend..on second thought he needs a LIFE!!


----------



## JJG

Juanpabloangel said:


> ... but I think their first stadium must have a great atmosphere as it feels old school.


That's because it IS old school. 

It was built in 1913.


----------



## Rover030

pesto said:


> LOL. Sounds like you have pretty sophisticated taste. I don't think US architects can keep up with you. :lol:


If you read carefully, you would have seen that I tried to explain why the other user probably didn't see some of those stadiums as "real football stadiums".

After that, I gave my personal opinion that I don't like a bit of diversification in stadiums, although I don't really like those open ends.


----------



## Rover030

JJG said:


> As an architect, general sports fan, and American:
> 
> I HATE when stadiums, arenas, and ballparks (_especially_) look the same...


I agree actually. I said in that comment, that I don't mind diversification in stadiums. I tried to explain in that comment why some people wouldn't see some of those MLS stadiums as "real football stadiums". 

And obviously, stadiums being symmetric doesn't mean that they all have to be the same. The stadiums that I mentioned in that comment all look different from each other, the common factor being that they are more or less symmetric (which I don't really mind) and that they don't have open ends (which is something I do mind).


----------



## The Game Is Up

Is city of Charlotte now willing to fund new soccer stadium?

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article158391004.html


----------



## carnifex2005

Nice news for FC Cincinnati. Their US Open Cup match tonight against the Chicago Fire will be shown on ESPN (it originally was going to be shown on ESPN2, which was amazing in itself).


----------



## GunnerJacket

Yep. Since the College World Series was a sweep ESPN had the room for live programming.

Winner winner chicken dinner.


----------



## eric the midget

Will be another fantastic showing by FCC. Should be another 30,000+ on hand, with a small possibility of a sellout. After tonight FCC will own 2 of the top 4 attendances in USOC history. 

1. 35,613 - Finals: Seattle Sounders v Chicago Fire
2. 31,311 - Finals: Seattle Sounders v Columbus Crew
3. 30,160 - 4th Round: FC Cincinnati v Columbus Crew
TBD - 5th Round: FC Cincinnati v Chicago Fire(25,000+ tickets were sold as of yesterday morning)

I know that attendance isn't everything, but that plus the attention that FCC has been getting lately, it's hard to see how they DON'T get into the MLS at this point.

Edit: After doing some reading, looks like there's a good possibility of a sellout.

@JeffBerding just told @ENQSports there are plenty of tickets still available tonight, but a 'very good chance' the match sells out.

https://twitter.com/PBrennanENQ/status/880122589124988928


----------



## Guest

eric the midget said:


> I know that attendance isn't everything, but that plus the attention that FCC has been getting lately, *it's hard to see how they DON'T get into the MLS at this point.*


Is it, really? Looks very easy to me


----------



## eric the midget

Yes. It's hard to argue any team has more momentum right now than FCC, IMO.


----------



## Guest

If the stadium plan pans out, theyll be a strong contender, but it's easy to see MLS overlooking Cincinnati if some of the bigger markets start making things happen. 

After all, Cincinnati would be the smallest TV market in MLS. Smallest. Smalller than Salt Lake. Smaller than Columbus. Thats not good when then there are 5-6 potential contenders with larger TV market sizes in contention (even if some of those 10+ Initial markets have fallen by the wayside).

Sacramento, detroit, phoenix, tampa, carolina, even tennessee team remain as good an option as cincinnati. And as we have seen with mls, potential matters just as much as whats happening in reality. They pushed st louis and s diego hard despite there being little evidence of tangible existing support for lower league franchises.


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> If the stadium plan pans out, theyll be a strong contender, but it's easy to see MLS overlooking Cincinnati if some of the bigger markets start making things happen.
> 
> After all, Cincinnati would be the smallest TV market in MLS. Smallest. Smalller than Salt Lake. Smaller than Columbus. Thats not good when then there are 5-6 potential contenders with larger TV market sizes in contention (even if some of those 10+ Initial markets have fallen by the wayside).
> 
> Sacramento, detroit, phoenix, tampa, carolina, even tennessee team remain as good an option as cincinnati. And as we have seen with mls, potential matters just as much as whats happening in reality. They pushed st louis and s diego hard despite there being little evidence of tangible existing support for lower league franchises.


Agreed. And for today FC Cincy is a media darling _because_ they're in a lower division. If they were in MLS then a) I don't know for sure they'd be packing the house for a "big" Open Cup match with (insert MLS team here), and b) I sincerely doubt this would be on national TV.

This isn't to say FC Cincy wouldn't make a great addition for MLS, just that there are plenty of factors beyond general attendance for a lasting product.

If they get in I hope the crowds stay with them. If not then I wish that even more so.


----------



## bd popeye

My lads *FC Cincinnati* attracted..;



> A club record crowd of *32,287* – the largest FC Cincinnati’s had for a competitive match and the second-largest in the history of the U.S. Open Cup – attended the game.


The score was nil...nil after 90 minutes ..FC Cincinnati won on penalty kicks;



> FINAL: FC Cincinnati 0, Chicago Fire 0 (FC Cincinnati wins, 3-1, on penalty kicks).
> 
> A superlative performance by FC Cincinnati goalkeeper Mitch Hildebrandt sent the club through to the Lamar Hunt U.S. Open Cup quarterfinals.
> 
> In penalty kicks, Hildebrandt saved three of the four shots he faced. Meanwhile, FC Cincinnati converted three out of four takes to win the match, 3-1, in penalties.
> 
> Cincinnati will now travel to Miami FC for its quarterfinal match. Miami beat Atlanta United FC of MLS earlier Wednesday.


MLS Tv ratings are poor no matter the market.

GunnerJacket sez;



> If they were in MLS then a) I don't know for sure they'd be packing the house for a "big" Open Cup match with (insert MLS team here), and b) I sincerely doubt this would be on national TV.


What makes you make those statements? Thank you!


----------



## eric the midget

From @fccincinnati



> This is what the second largest crowd in @opencup history looks like. #CINvCHI












FCC has somehow built in less than 2 years something that some MLS teams can only dream of.


----------



## Guest

Great clip of the stadium + final PK save:

https://streamable.com/vrlgy


----------



## eric the midget

Wow, thanks for posting that! I do understand your points about markets and what not, just think it would be a shame for MLS to pass up that sort of support and atmosphere. Watching some MLS games, the league could really use it.


----------



## bd popeye

eric the midget said:


> Wow, thanks for posting that! I do understand your points about markets and what not, just think it would be a shame for MLS to pass up that sort of support and atmosphere. Watching some MLS games, the league could really use it.


As I stated many, many times I'm no futbol fan.. but when I see this and observe the incredible atmosphere of Nippert Stadium ...well...






*FC CINCINNATI*


----------



## GunnerJacket

bd popeye said:


> My lads *FC Cincinnati* attracted..;


"_My lads?_" Does this mean you're an official convert? C'mon, you can be honest here.





> MLS Tv ratings are poor no matter the market.


Sadly true for the most part, which is why this next round of expansion will be intriguing. They've clearly been angling for the largest markets possible to improve their margins for potential viewership, but they equally know atmosphere on the screen can lure viewers, as well. (Recall the hype machine of the Boise St. Broncos for a spell...) This is the reason many national broadcasts have tended to feature Seattle and Portland instead of, say, Chicago and Dallas. 



> What makes you make those statements? Thank you!


This is the first year the USOC has truly garnered national attention. The national TV contract is purely for the finals, with all other matches being optional pick-ups by the broadcast partners. The reality is that the cash payout from the tournament reflects its meager history and prestige, so the bigger teams don't bend over backwards for the event. For MLS teams the President's Trophy and the MLS Cup carry more appeal.

What's changed is that this is essentially just the 2nd year we've seen lower division teams offering such environments, meaning the allure and the prospects for a Cinderella are bigger than ever before. Put simply, the stage has grown larger as MLS teams have become bigger and wealthier and there are now volumes of credible and entertaining D2 teams feeding off the growing popularity of the sport. Compare that to the year 2003 when I think there were maybe 25 D1 and D2 teams total, and none of them larger than what we see of, say, Chicago today. (The Galaxy were big but not as big as the post-Becks version.) So we're finally reaching the stage where the USOC can carry this sense of drama and passion in large part _because_ we have the contrast between divisions, because for Miami, San Jose and Cincy last night meant a rare chance for them whereas the MLS vs MLS contests didn't garner near as much attention. That's why ESPN was interested.

Would Cincy have drawn the same crowd if they were in MLS? Possibly, but the story wouldn't have drawn national attention or ESPN because it would've been just another MLS vs. MLS match. Would that factor affect the crowd's zeal? I don't know, but even Seattle, Portland and Atlanta have played their USOC matches in front of smaller venues/crowds, as have most MLS teams. Because this competition is for many MLS teams and fans viewed in a lesser light it doesn't yet carry the same passion or urgency. Hopefully this changes with time as we get more and more good teams in the lower divisions. 

So this isn't a slight against Cincy. My own AUFC only packed about 9k for their USOC match 2 weeks ago so I appreciate what FCC has done, but their story is in large part based upon their current underdog D2 status. If they were to repeat this feat as an MLS team then I'd say a) great for them and hope it encourages more fans to treat the event the same way, but also b) they'd have been the first team to ever do that, so that's why I'd be surprised. 

But at least the USOC is on the right trajectory, as with the sport of soccer as a whole in this country. "_Just keep swimming. Just keep swimming_."


----------



## bd popeye

^^ Great comments GunnerJacket. I understand your point of view.



GunnerJacket said:


> "_My lads?_" Does this mean you're an official convert? C'mon, you can be honest here.


Ahh for now I'm no convert... I just watch and *ENJOY* FCC home match highlights.. Next will be part of a match.


----------



## GunnerJacket

bd popeye said:


> Ahh for now I'm no convert... I just watch and *ENJOY* FCC home match highlights.. Next will be part of a match.


I hope I get to cross paths with you at a match someday, sir. Cheers!

:cheers:


----------



## The Game Is Up

https://www.socceramerica.com/article/73992/mls-expansion-charlotte-council-will-explore-plan.html



> The Charlotte MLS expansion bid appears to depend on convincing the reluctant Charlotte city council to contribute to the private-public partnership for the construction of a $175 million soccer stadium.
> 
> The Charlotte city council has been until now reluctant to support the plan Marcus Smith, CEO of Speedway Motorsports, has proposed and the county of Mecklenburg initially supported.
> 
> But the Charlotte city council has agreed to have its economic development committee review the proposal on July 20.
> 
> The original deal called for the county and city to each contribute $43.75 million -- half of the $175 million -- and the county pay for much of Smith's share that would be repaid in annual lease payments of $4.25 million.
> 
> Earlier in June, Mecklenburg County commissioners voted to defer until August a decision on plans to include stadium funds in the county's current budget, indicating their reluctance to go forward if Charlotte didn't contribute to the stadium effort.
> 
> The Charlotte bidding group MLS4CLT has created a website launched on Thursday to drum up support from soccer fans and get them to lobby city and county officials.


----------



## carnifex2005

Group plans to bring pro soccer to Saskatchewan

This Saskatchewan group looks to build 15-20 million dollar stadium for the Canadian Premier League club. One of the owners went on a "due diligence" trip to Germany and posted a number of pictures of Brita Arena, so I'm guessing that is what they are going for.


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

^^ He tweeted that "one can build 10 (IIRC) of these for price of one NHL arena".

Good to see the game growing in Canada, can't wait for league to start.


----------



## Calvin W

dinamo_zagreb said:


> ^^ He tweeted that "one can build 10 (IIRC) of these for price of one NHL arena".
> 
> Good to see the game growing in Canada, can't wait for league to start.


New NHL arena's are going for $500 million+. For $50 million you should be able to get a bare bones 10,000 seat stadium.


----------



## GunnerJacket

carnifex2005 said:


> Group plans to bring pro soccer to Saskatchewan
> 
> This Saskatchewan group looks to build 15-20 million dollar stadium for the Canadian Premier League club. One of the owners went on a "due diligence" trip to Germany and posted a number of pictures of Brita Arena, so I'm guessing that is what they are going for.


Nice, but 2 things come to mind:

- They'll need to make sure they avoid needing support columns for the roof that obstruct views, which regrettably is an issue for the venue shown in that image.

- They'll need something of a second-tier section for TV production. The CPL is looking for national TV coverage of a sort and not only must the technology be accommodated but they'll surely be looking for viewing angles that are attractive to the audience and the stadium.


----------



## ObiUbamba

When will the final decision be made for the new MLS expansion teams?


----------



## Franchise646

ObiUbamba said:


> When will the final decision be made for the new MLS expansion teams?


We will know who #25 and #26 are at the end of the year.


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> Nice, but 2 things come to mind:
> 
> - They'll need to make sure they avoid needing support columns for the roof that obstruct views, which regrettably is an issue for the venue shown in that image.
> 
> - They'll need something of a second-tier section for TV production. The CPL is looking for national TV coverage of a sort and not only must the technology be accommodated but they'll surely be looking for viewing angles that are attractive to the audience and the stadium.


I agree that we don't need to focus on world expansion. 

But notice that even in this post you effectively reference MLS's desire for good camera angles, which is part of the idea of building world-class sides with worldwide exposure. 

I think everyone will view expansion, stadium size and design, kit choices, sponsorships, etc., in a different light when you think about what the overall MLS goal is.


----------



## EarthMachOne

GunnerJacket said:


> Nice, but 2 things come to mind:
> 
> - They'll need to make sure they avoid needing support columns for the roof that obstruct views, which regrettably is an issue for the venue shown in that image.
> 
> - They'll need something of a second-tier section for TV production. The CPL is looking for national TV coverage of a sort and not only must the technology be accommodated but they'll surely be looking for viewing angles that are attractive to the audience and the stadium.


Isn't Canadian Premiere going to be D2 or D3 level? There's talk of that league using "pop up" stadiums which are just a pitch, simple aluminum bleachers and minimal out buildings for concessions, rest rooms, etc.

SV Wehen is a Liga 3 club, so I'm guessing they were more concerned with cost than a few obstructed views. Brita was build for 14 million euros. That's a pretty good value in Wiesbaden for a 12k seat stadium with all it's seats covered.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Here's the temporary 20k venue that that Vancouver Whitecaps and BC Lions used for 2 years while BC Place was under renovation. It reportedly cost about $15M. The cost savings here is that no major utility construction or foundation was required for this structure. The stands were temporary set ups while locker rooms, concession and restroom facilities were built independent of the stadium proper. 









From blogspot.com via BigSoccer.com

You can get away with something that cheap when it's billed as temporary, but the CPL is aiming for D1 status and long-term growth. They know full well they'll be behind MLS financially and thus may operate more like a 1a than a 1, but the intent is to be comparable to, or better than, what the NASL and USL currently offer in the USA. They aspire for 7k+ per match and are counting on national TV contracts to help them rise above the US D2 leagues. 

If they're to succeed in this measure they'll need facilities that are durable, viable stadiums endearing to fans and capable of providing premium experiences for visitors. They'll want a means to capitalize on wealthier patrons who'll view this as a true national league and the ability to bring in revenue above and beyond merely 5k general admin seats per match.

Now in some cases they may not even add roofs, which is perfectly fine. The notion is, though, that whatever they build should resonate as small and efficient but not necessarily cheap, because as a league they're aspiring for more than cheap.


----------



## EarthMachOne

Interesting. When it comes down to it fan experience is very important in smaller clubs. ticket prices and affordability of concessions are maybe MORE important than whether there's a full roof over the supporters section. 

I was speaking to someone recently who's in the process of planning a minor league expansion team and stadium in the USA and he told me the most important thing about the stadium wasn't the building. It was being able to offer $10 tickets and $2 beer. 

in terms of Wiesbaden I'm guessing that the weather was a big factor in putting that cheap corrugated metal roof on it. They play through winter and they get a fair amount of rain. Canada will play more like the MLS & USL schedule with a winter break. Not as much need for full a full roof. 


Not sure whether it was covered in here, but here's some info on the Halifax club that's trying to get into CPL.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/...ccer-stadium-for-new-professional-league-team

This is about as bare bones as you could build something. Basically a high school level set-up


----------



## GunnerJacket

EarthMachOne said:


> Interesting. When it comes down to it fan experience is very important in smaller clubs. ticket prices and affordability of concessions are maybe MORE important than whether there's a full roof over the supporters section.
> 
> I was speaking to someone recently who's in the process of planning a minor league expansion team and stadium in the USA and he told me the most important thing about the stadium wasn't the building. It was being able to offer $10 tickets and $2 beer.


Agreed, but a) CPL is aiming to be (real or perceived as) slightly more than minor league, and b) there's a distinction between wanting to capture those basic fans versus needing the premium spaces for capturing bigger money. CPL is aiming for weekly national broadcasting that can be very comparable to the CFL, both for the money and the exposure. This will require not only a degree of attractive venues but also a means to make money. Remember, minor league baseball in the States is essentially subsidized by the major leagues through direct team tie-ins, player movement, etc. The CPL, on the other hand, will need to be able to stand alone. Thus, they'll have plenty of $10 seats but they'll also have at least something on offer for executive seating.

This doesn't mean you can' have cheap seats and, as I said, you may see some venues completely forego the roof, and that's perfectly fine. But whatever they do the aspiration will be for something better than bare-bones because this league won't prosper otherwise. So if they do a roof I wouldn't expect it to be cheap. To this end the league does have the benefit of expecting several teams to be playing in CFL venues, so it's not like every team will need to face this dilemma. And the smallest of markets may be able to use basic structures if the league itself yields enough revenue to subsidize such from 1-2 members. 

Cheers.


----------



## weava

EarthMachOne said:


> But MLS is on track to eventually be the #2 sport in the country, and that means it's all about money now.


Most played by kids under 12, sure.

But if you are saying that MLS is going to pass MLB, NBA, and NHL... that's not happening anytime soon, if ever. You have to realize there are single MLB teams that have more revenue than the entire MLS combined. With teams like the Yankees and Dodgers able to get Billion dollar TV deals for just their local rights. To say that MLS is on pace to pass MLB is funny.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Meeting between Major League Soccer, county canceled amid transparency questions

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/article161063334.html


----------



## bd popeye

weava said:


> Most played by kids under 12, sure.
> 
> But if you are saying that MLS is going to pass MLB, NBA, and NHL... that's not happening anytime soon, if ever. You have to realize there are single MLB teams that have more revenue than the entire MLS combined. With teams like the Yankees and Dodgers able to get Billion dollar TV deals for just their local rights. To say that MLS is on pace to pass MLB is funny.


I agree.

In 2016 the NY Yankees generated $526 Million USD in revenue. The entire MLS generated $461 USD.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/196673/revenue-of-the-new-york-yankees-since-2006/

https://howmuch.net/articles/sports-leagues-by-revenue


----------



## GunnerJacket

bd popeye said:


> I agree.
> 
> In 2016 the NY Yankees generated $526 Million USD in revenue. The entire MLS generated *$461* USD.


WHAT?!! That means if I paid $300 for my season tickets then everyone else attending these games is getting in for pennies! 

I feel like such a chump. :wallbash:





:colgate:


----------



## aaronniuk

Las Vegas Soccer, LLC, today announced the City of Las Vegas has reached an agreement in principle for a United Soccer League team to compete at Cashman Field beginning in 2018. 

http://www.uslsoccer.com/news_article/show/812999?referrer_id=2701681


----------



## dinamo_zagreb

Calvin W said:


> New NHL arena's are going for $500 million+. For $50 million you should be able to get a bare bones 10,000 seat stadium.


He actually said 25, not 10.

https://twitter.com/JoeBelan/status...reads/canadian-premier-league.2028798/page-29


----------



## GunnerJacket

Confirmed today that the regular MLS configuration for Mercedes Benz Stadium will be 42,500. They'll have two dates this year where the upper deck will be available for larger capacities.


----------



## Lumbergo

pesto said:


> I sympathize; and I hope there will always be community centered sports teams that attract families and develop local traditions, etc.
> 
> But that's not where the MLS is going. Or if it does, several sides will break off and form a US super league or find some other way to exploit the billions of dollars in the world market. No reason to leave it for the Europeans and Chinese.


I think MLS has a better shot of having worldwide brand appeal than the Chinese Super League but maybe that's just me looking on from a western perspective. 

Currently the Chinese government are throwing millions, if not billions of dollars at importing players (though apparently in 2017 they implemented a new rule that only three foreign players can play at one game) and growing the game domestically through development academies. It will probably end up being a huge success for the game as domestic product in China - but abroad? I don't know. I guess if kids in America and Europe that aren't of Chinese ethnicity start sporing kits from CSL teams we'll know.


----------



## GunnerJacket

^^ You're correct that China has reversed course regarding the largesse spent on foreign stars. They still do that, but to a lesser degree given the way those salaries would now be taxed.

Apart from the calibre of play the CPL's biggest obstacles to global appeal will be the perceived openness of the culture and the language barrier. At 1B+ Chinese alone it may not matter, however, how widely it is followed outside of east Asia. What they have as one advantage is a time frame that makes them accessible as an early morning alternative for soccer fans in Europe, who can use games from Asia as a tune up before their own domestic leagues in much the way we here in the States use European leagues as early morning viewing.


----------



## The Game Is Up

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2017/08/03/Leagues-and-Governing-Bodies/MLS.aspx



> WANTING TO JOIN THE PARTY: SI.com's Brian Straus notes Miami would be the league’s 24th club (No. 23 LAFC enters in '18), and Garber said that MLS "remains on track to identify teams No. 25 and 26 following its December board meeting." Sacramento Republic FC remains favored to earn one of those bids, and Garber said that the USL club's decision to "begin preparation work at its stadium site last week 'was a great move on their part.'" Garber also said Detroit, whose potential owners Dan Gilbert and Tom Gores moved "one step closer" to securing the downtown property they are targeting for a stadium. He added that "large U.S. Open Cup and Gold Cup crowds in Cincinnati and Nashville also impressed" (SI.com, 8/3). FS1's Alexi Lalas on MLS and Adidas signing a six-year extension said, "That is good for the business of MLS and ultimately that is good for what happens on the field in terms of the competition and the talent." FS1's Eric Wynalda said the "business side of it is going well because for the first time in a while we've got some cohesion between U.S. Soccer" and MLS because "sometimes we don't get along. But it just seems like everybody's on the same page" ("MLS All-Star Game Pregrame," FS1, 8/2).
> 
> CITY PLANNING: In Sacramento, Ryan Lillis notes Republic FC is "maintaining its place as a front-runner" for MLS expansion. Sac Soccer Chair & CEO Kevin Nagle said the "path to MLS has never been more clear." He added, "We appreciate Commissioner Garber’s comments today in support of Sacramento and are now laser focused on the expansion vote at MLS Cup this December" (SACRAMENTO BEE, 8/3). When asked about FC Cincinnati's three proposed stadium sites, as well as each expansion candidate's stadium pursuits, Garber said that he "wasn't concerned about Cincinnati's or other markets' ability to close on stadium plans" in '17. Then Garber diverted from the stadium subject and went on to say "what's happening in Cincinnati is remarkable." FC Cincinnati President & GM Jeff Berding said that he was "flattered to receive the praise" (CINCINNATI ENQUIRER, 8/3). In Detroit, Tony Paul notes reps for Detroit's "bullish bid" to land an MLS franchise were in Chicago yesterday for the All-Star Game, and to "meet with league brass and ownership." Detroit "at least seemed to get an endorsement, or two," from Garber (DETROIT NEWS, 8/3).


----------



## krnboy1009

Sacramento is a lock IMO. So it's three spots up for grabs IMO.

Sacramento has EVERYTHING MLS wants. They can't turn them down. Not every market is going to be a big market. For the most part MLS has the big markets covered anyway.


----------



## EarthMachOne

5portsF4n said:


> This 'it's a X city' is such garbage, it's hard to know where to start. No city is a soccer city, and many of them work just fine. Some are 'hockey' cities, where other sports do very well.
> 
> When you say it's a X city, all you're saying is that it's the most popular sport in that city. It doesn't have anywhere near as much bearing as you think on whether other sports could work there. As MLS has proven time and again.


NO. Some cities ARE soccer cities. Portland is a Soccer City. Seattle is a Soccer City. Cities like San Antonio or Indy that already have a D2 pro club but only draw about as many people as Detroit's D4 amateur team are a good indicator that an MLS club is going to struggle. They'll wind up being another Dallas or Columbus.


----------



## Bori427

Next two will be Sacramento and Detroit, been saying it for months.


----------



## Bori427

EarthMachOne said:


> Texas is not a good region for MLS. The existing clubs have poor attendance and San Antonio won't be any better.


I think San Antonio would do much better than Dallas and Houston.


----------



## Franchise646

Bancars said:


> MLS needs to expand to the north states. Cincinnati and Detroit are good places for expansion. Sacramento too. Others- NOT! By the way your real estate market is so overpriced. Such stadiums cost half in highly populated EU or China. Even Orlando's 155mln stadium is insanely expensive. In EU such stadium costs 50-70mln


My question is what is the other west team that gets in. Hoping it's San Diego.


----------



## Guest

Again, complete garbage. There are more soccer fans in Dallas than in any of those cities you named. 

Portland and Seattle are not soccer cities. As other sports are more popular in both. So, according to your logic, they shouldn't work. There is nothing mystical about sports fandom in any city. Just like Atlanta is supposedly a tough market, a football market, but AUFC seem to be doing just fine.

As for the San Antonio/Indy vs Detroit comparison...lol is all that needs to be said. Or do you not remember Portland drawing 5,000 people in the mid 2000s...the same Portland that you're calling a 'soccer city'.


----------



## JJG

5portsF4n said:


> Again, complete garbage. There are more soccer fans in Dallas than in any of those cities you named.


Don't usually agree or quote what you say, but yeah.

This is a metro of almost 7 million, so I'm pretty damn sure there are more than enough people who take interest in MLS. There are plenty of FC Dallas fans in the area, but the stadium is all the way out in Frisco, where it's NOT centered in the area (and seeing how DFW is about the size of Connecticut, you would want most everything to be as centered as possible) and then there's the fact that they have to compete for attention in the same area with the Dallas Cowboys... that alone is hard for ALL the sports teams in this area, including the 4 FBS colleges. 

It's easy to say that the area doesn't support a team when you don't understand the circumstances. But just Dallas by itself has support for soccer. 

And as for the mentioning of San Antonio and Indy... using minor league attendance is not a good way to indicate how well a market could support a major pro sports franchise. Hell, the majority of the ECHL's attendance pulls an average of 60% AT BEST.


----------



## Guest

Sure, though I wasn't even referring to MLS fandom. FC Dallas might be more popular in a better location, but it might not, who knows. 
Aside from other sports, it has an equally big problem in that support for other soccer leagues is much higher in places like Dallas than in Portland.

Considering the hefty contigent of Mexicans in Dallas metro, it's almost guaranteed that pound for pound there are more soccer fans in Dallas than in so-called 'soccer cities' like Portland. 

From what EarthMachOne is saying, places like Dallas aren't soccer cities because they don't support MLS. 

But considering that Liga MX is the most popular soccer league by TV ratings stateside, you'd have to question why he's making that assumption.

The likes of Portland don't have to contend with having the people most likely to attend games (soccer fans) carved out by a rival league in Liga MX.

As a quick course in demographics:

There are 280,000 Hispanics in Portland, of which 83% are Mexican. That's 35th in the nation by total number of Hispanics. In Seattle, there are 355,000 (70% Mexicans). 

Now compare them to cities in the south and southwest - practically all of which are markets where MLS struggles to replicate the kind of success seen elsewhere:

LA - 5.9m Hispanics (78% Mexican)
Houston - 2.3m (75% Mexican)
Riverside (no team obv but...LA) - 2.1m (87% Mexican)
Dallas - 1.9m (84% Mexican)

By all accounts, if there was no alternative, these would be huge markets for MLS. They're anything but.

And then others that are talked about as MLS markets: 

Phoenix - 1.3m (89% Mexican)
San Antonio - 1.2m (89% Mexican)
San Diego - 1m (89% Mexican)

Ideally located stadiums might help. But, as Houston shows, it's not guaranteed. Any MLS team is going to have a hard time convincing people interested in soccer to watch them if they have a readily accessible alternative with strong allegiances to another league instead. 

I don't have statistics, but I would imagine that Los Angeles metro area has the most soccer fans in the country by a distance. But you wouldn't know it judging by the Galaxy, as most of its potential audience doesn't care about MLS.


----------



## ObiUbamba

The Game Is Up said:


> http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2017/08/03/Leagues-and-Governing-Bodies/MLS.aspx


I can't see the Trop being used by the Rowdies. The waterfront stadium at Al Lang is one of the most iconic stadiums in American soccer, and the cost of renovating it would be far less than tearing down and rebuilding the Trop. Also Raymond James is suitable for the "big" international games, so it makes no sense to build a new one 25 miles away. 

I suspect part of Kriseman's motivation for this comment was with the view of the upcoming mayoral race. I wouldn't read too much into his speculations.


----------



## Guest

Franchise646 said:


> My question is what is the other west team that gets in. Hoping it's San Diego.


One of Phoenix/San Antonio/San Diego potentially.


----------



## EarthMachOne

They might have the money and the Stadium set for Miami, but I don't believe they have the fans. Miami FC played their last Open Cup match in an empty stadium.


After Miami, Sacramento, Detroit and Cinci are announced I don't believe Garber will stop. He has said a million times that they're not adding more clubs. But there's no way he'll turn down another $150 or $200 million 5 years from now to expand to another couple of markets. They could easily operate with 30 or 32 clubs. 

another consideration is how to structure the two conferences if they let in 3 teams that are East of Chicago and one team on the west coast. One or more of the existing teams would have to join the western conference. Otherwise you'd end up with situation where the West has 12 teams and the East has 14.


----------



## bd popeye

EarthMachOne said:


> They might have the money and the Stadium set for Miami, but I don't believe they have the fans. Miami FC played their last Open Cup match in an empty stadium.


Well now.. the Miami Herald claims it was an record attendance..

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/mls/article165122482.html



> Unfortunately for the *record crowd of 10,415 fans* at FIU’s Riccardo Silva Stadium on Wednesday night — many of them using their soggy tickets from the postponed July 12 rainout — the home team was also missing its offensive thunder for much of the game and lost 1-0.


If so the stadium was well under its 20,000 capacity. Did members members here see the match? if so.. What did the crowd look like? Thank you!


----------



## tinyslam

EarthMachOne said:


> Cities like San Antonio or Indy that already have a D2 pro club but only draw about as many people as Detroit's D4 amateur team are a good indicator that an MLS club is going to struggle.


Not necessarily. Look at Atlanta. The Silverbacks drew similar to DCFC while in D2 and now AUFC is drawing 10x that.


----------



## EarthMachOne

bd popeye said:


> Well now.. the Miami Herald claims it was an record attendance..
> 
> http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/mls/article165122482.html
> 
> 
> 
> If so the stadium was well under its 20,000 capacity. Did members members here see the match? if so.. What did the crowd look like? Thank you!


I watched some of the match and all I saw was empty bleachers. I think most of the ticket holders didn't both showing up.

It looks like the fans were concentrated on one side of the stadium. You can see some empty sections in this set of photos

http://www.miamifc.com/photo-gallery/2017/08/02/miami-fc-vs-fc-cincinnati-


----------



## EarthMachOne

5portsF4n said:


> Again, complete garbage. There are more soccer fans in Dallas than in any of those cities you named.
> 
> Portland and Seattle are not soccer cities. As other sports are more popular in both. So, according to your logic, they shouldn't work. There is nothing mystical about sports fandom in any city. Just like Atlanta is supposedly a tough market, a football market, but AUFC seem to be doing just fine.
> 
> As for the San Antonio/Indy vs Detroit comparison...lol is all that needs to be said. Or do you not remember Portland drawing 5,000 people in the mid 2000s...the same Portland that you're calling a 'soccer city'.


you can see how many Texans care about soccer every time you watch a Houston or Dallas match. Empty seats on camera the entire game. 

Until this year Seattle had the highest attendance in MLS. Portland has sold out EVERY SINGLE MLS GAME that they've ever held at Providence park. Over a 100 matches and counting. The Thorns have the highest attendance of any women's team in the world! They average 16k people per game. 

here's a link to 2017 MLS attendance by city http://soccerstadiumdigest.com/2017-mls-attendance/


2	Seattle Sounders	42,726
8	Portland Timbers	21,144

21	FC Dallas 15,283

The reason Portland isn't drawing 30k people is that their stadium only holds 21k. The Timbers have a season ticket waiting list of 13,000 people. Dallas has twice the population of Portland and Seattle and some of their matches don't fill 10k seats. 

The only thing keeping Dallas from being dead last in attendance is Columbus. Dallas's attendance was down more than 10% last year. 

Look at all those Dallas fans!!! Wow, what a "soccer city"


----------



## JJG

EarthMachOne said:


> you can see how many Texans care about soccer every time you watch a Houston or Dallas match.


I've heard this same "argument" used for the Stars a million times and they're celebrating their 25th season this year... :sleepy:


----------



## bd popeye

Thank you.^^

When FC Cincinnati plays NYRB in Nippert Stadium August 15th the stadium will look like this;



I just hope that FCC builds it new SSS in Cincinnati not northern Kentucky.


----------



## JJG

bd popeye said:


> Thank you.^^
> 
> When FC Cincinnati plays NYRB in Nippert Stadium August 15th the stadium will look like this;
> 
> 
> 
> I just hope that FCC builds it new SSS in Cincinnati not northern Kentucky.


I kinda wish they would just continue to use Nippert for the uniqueness but we all know why that won't continue.


----------



## bd popeye

JJG said:


> I kinda wish they would just continue to use Nippert for the uniqueness but we all know why that won't continue.


I agree.. the club hierarchy knows if FCC is to be moved to the MLS they must have a SSC that they control.


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> They do to the extent that it matters to the economics of the team. In terms of revenue conditions the ownership of Atlanta United is making as much from MBS as the 1b tenant as if they were the sole owner. Nothing is redirected away from them to the Falcons as they are in the same parent company, which is exactly the point. Ditto in NE. Neither soccer team is hurting or missing out on revenues because of their status as the secondary tenant in their NFL stadiums. I'm not sure how much more in control they could be, at least to an extent that matters. What is it that you believe they are lacking due to these conditions?


If it is in the economic interest of the football team to play on a given day vs. the (much smaller) economic interest of the soccer team, who prevails?
Presumably the football team, and the soccer team loses out. That wouldn't happen if the soccer team owns the stadium or plays in a different stadium.

The one place common ownership makes some difference is when the benefit to the football team is smaller than the benefit to the soccer team. Then the single owner would do whatever is possible to give priority to the soccer team.


----------



## EarthMachOne

pesto said:


> If it is in the economic interest of the football team to play on a given day vs. the (much smaller) economic interest of the soccer team, who prevails?
> Presumably the football team, and the soccer team loses out. That wouldn't happen if the soccer team owns the stadium or plays in a different stadium.
> 
> The one place common ownership makes some difference is when the benefit to the football team is smaller than the benefit to the soccer team. Then the single owner would do whatever is possible to give priority to the soccer team.


Something tells me that there aren't going to be any problems with scheduling Atlanta United and The Falcons. The falcons play mostly on Sundays and Mondays. Atlanta United will play mostly on Saturdays and Wednesdays. 

On top of that the Falcons and United seasons only overlap for about 3 months. There's little potential overlap between the two. 


If the Detroit Red Wings and Pistons can share an Arena for 9 months of the year I don't think Atlanta's owner will have any trouble scheduling the two teams in his 2 billion dollar stadium


----------



## slipperydog

Conventional wisdom is that Sacramento, Detroit, Cincinnati, and Nashville are the leaders in the clubhouse. Well, Nashville just added the owners of the MN Vikings to their group, and coupled with the growing 35 and under demographic and the general desirability of Nashville as a city, I'd say they seem to be close to reaching the inevitable stage.

http://www.tennessean.com/story/new...ajor-league-soccer-ownership-group/546471001/

This graphic at MLS headquarters shows the geographic spread of the 12 candidates (although a few seem very unlikely at this point)


----------



## Franchise646

slipperydog said:


> Conventional wisdom is that Sacramento, Detroit, Cincinnati, and Nashville are the leaders in the clubhouse. Well, Nashville just added the owners of the MN Vikings to their group, and coupled with the growing 35 and under demographic and the general desirability of Nashville as a city, I'd say they seem to be close to reaching the inevitable stage.
> 
> http://www.tennessean.com/story/new...ajor-league-soccer-ownership-group/546471001/
> 
> This graphic at MLS headquarters shows the geographic spread of the 12 candidates (although a few seem very unlikely at this point)


I would guess they would be a “western” team. They aren't really. There is also plenty of time for San Diego to get back in this for 27 & 28.


----------



## JJG

slipperydog said:


> Conventional wisdom is that Sacramento, Detroit, Cincinnati, and Nashville are the leaders in the clubhouse.


Nashville?

Not that I don't think they would, but I thought that either Tampa or San Antonio would be #4.


----------



## GunnerJacket

pesto said:


> If it is in the economic interest of the football team to play on a given day vs. the (much smaller) economic interest of the soccer team, who prevails?
> Presumably the football team, and the soccer team loses out. That wouldn't happen if the soccer team owns the stadium or plays in a different stadium.
> 
> The one place common ownership makes some difference is when the benefit to the football team is smaller than the benefit to the soccer team. Then the single owner would do whatever is possible to give priority to the soccer team.


As Earth alluded the MLS and NFL seasons only overlap for about 10 weeks plus the MLS post-season. (That includes the NFL preseason, which features a lot of Friday night games.) In the three NFL/MLS venues you can play both sports on the same weekend, so if for some reason the MLS team has to play at home as the same weekend as their NFL big brother they can easily play their game the Saturday before. Such is the benefit of mostly electronic displays and shared owner-ship.

Bottom line, the presence of the NFL teams in these cases causes only the most marginal of inconveniences, if at all. 



slipperydog said:


> Conventional wisdom is that Sacramento, Detroit, Cincinnati, and Nashville are the leaders in the clubhouse.


Beyond Sacramento I'm not not locking anyone in. Cincy might be close but I've read/heard plenty to counter their candidacy, as well. At the least they don't have everything as in place as SRFC. Detroit, meanwhile, is further behind them. I'm also with JJG thinking San Antonio and Tampa are closer than many would believe.

As for Nashville... 


> Well, Nashville just added the owners of the MN Vikings to their group, and coupled with the growing 35 and under demographic and the general desirability of Nashville as a city, I'd say they seem to be close to reaching the inevitable stage.


The same Zygi Wilf who was not well received by the league during the explorations for a Minneapolis franchise and then proceeded to softly undercut the public and political support for Minn United after he lost the bid?! That's the guy Nashville is turning to as an asset to their pursuit of MLS?! 

Um, okay.


----------



## Chevy114

Haven't been here in a while, but I loved hearing this summer that MLS wanted the Rowdies to take over the Rays dome if they leave. It was so comical because nothing outside of the dome itself is good about that area. The current stadium location is so much better for food, drinks, and atmosphere.


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> As Earth alluded the MLS and NFL seasons only overlap for about 10 weeks plus the MLS post-season. (That includes the NFL preseason, which features a lot of Friday night games.) In the three NFL/MLS venues you can play both sports on the same weekend, so if for some reason the MLS team has to play at home as the same weekend as their NFL big brother they can easily play their game the Saturday before. Such is the benefit of mostly electronic displays and shared owner-ship.
> 
> Bottom line, the presence of the NFL teams in these cases causes only the most marginal of inconveniences, if at all.
> 
> Beyond Sacramento I'm not not locking anyone in. Cincy might be close but I've read/heard plenty to counter their candidacy, as well. At the least they don't have everything as in place as SRFC. Detroit, meanwhile, is further behind them. I'm also with JJG thinking San Antonio and Tampa are closer than many would believe.
> 
> As for Nashville...
> The same Zygi Wilf who was not well received by the league during the explorations for a Minneapolis franchise and then proceeded to softly undercut the public and political support for Minn United after he lost the bid?! That's the guy Nashville is turning to as an asset to their pursuit of MLS?!
> 
> Um, okay.


You are changing my facts; I am assuming that it is non-optimal for either team to change dates. 

There will be frequent and recurring decisions as to field conditions, seating, concessions, etc., that will require a prioritization of one team or the other. It's just inevitable as anyone who has dealt with businesses sharing facilities, employees, vendors, etc., will tell you.


----------



## Lakeland

5portsF4n said:


> Way to completely ignore my previous post where all of that was addressed with what is yet more inane rambling from you.


He actually gave you some cold hard facts and you ignored them, which is what you usually do when your losing an argument. But I wouldn't expect anything less from someone who makes ridiculous statements like this... http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=141436291&postcount=2278



ielag said:


> *LigaMX TV ratings are great in Texas.* The Houston and Dallas owners just haven't done a good job connecting to the local fan base.


Is that really a surprise? Mexican fans will always prefer to watch the Mexican league over MLS. There's a reason Chivas USA was a disaster for the league.


----------



## H.U.S.T.L.E.

Chevy114 said:


> Haven't been here in a while, but I loved hearing this summer that MLS wanted the Rowdies to take over the Rays dome if they leave. It was so comical because nothing outside of the dome itself is good about that area. The current stadium location is so much better for food, drinks, and atmosphere.


The only person who's made any mention of that was the mayor, and not from anyone related to MLS.

That being said, if MLS would really be interested in the site, you've got to think bigger picture than what is already there. My assumption is that any redevelopment of the Tropicana Field site would be a mixed-use development with the soccer stadium as the anchor. I could definitely see MLS being interested in the site in that scenario.


----------



## EarthMachOne

pesto said:


> You are changing my facts; I am assuming that it is non-optimal for either team to change dates.
> 
> There will be frequent and recurring decisions as to field conditions, seating, concessions, etc., that will require a prioritization of one team or the other. It's just inevitable as anyone who has dealt with businesses sharing facilities, employees, vendors, etc., will tell you.


Mercedes Benz stadium was designed to quickly convert between events. it's a non issue. all it involves is some adjustments on the field/pitch. This is not like the old multi use domes and stadiums of the 70s. 

New stadiums and Arenas are built to do 12-24 hr turnaround for events. Look at how Little Caesars Arena in Detroit is configured. It's been designed so that it can host a Red Wings hockey game on Wednesday, a Kid Rock concert on Thursday and a Pistons basketball game on Friday.


----------



## GunnerJacket

pesto said:


> You are changing my facts; I am assuming that it is non-optimal for either team to change dates.
> 
> There will be frequent and recurring decisions as to field conditions, seating, concessions, etc., that will require a prioritization of one team or the other. It's just inevitable as anyone who has dealt with businesses sharing facilities, employees, vendors, etc., will tell you.


I'm not trying to twist words or "change facts," I think we simply are disagreeing as to what constitutes a significant impairment here. I don't think the volume or impact of things you're proposing is anywhere near as involved, or adverse, for the MLS teams as the 1b tenant in these situations _because_ a) they are tied in with the same ownership and venue management operations and b) because much of this is clarified from Day 1 of each season. The Revs and Atlanta United both know well in advance the stadium conditions and terms, including seating, concessions, etc. Yes, there may be times when some fans are impacted by date/time changes but this happens in other sports and the impact here is minimal. AU, for instance, didn't have to change a game date due to the Falcons schedule, which was released AFTER AU had slotted in their schedule. (The game against FCD was moved for TV as the Falcons are on the road that weekend.)

So is it "non-optimal?" Maybe, but I know that both clubs would have to spend a lot of money and draw tons of fans in order to get into better venue situations. A previous article a few years ago suggested NE would need to average at least 25k in order to justify the costs of a new soccer-specific venue. Meanwhile AU is expecting the Mercedes Benz experience will be a part of the draw long-term and based on what I've seen I believe them, especially given the stadium's location off of MARTA and in downtown. So I'm of the belief these teams are operating with terms that at least yield the greatest profit margin, if not the optimal pure stadium experience.


----------



## Chevy114

H.U.S.T.L.E. said:


> The only person who's made any mention of that was the mayor, and not from anyone related to MLS.
> 
> That being said, if MLS would really be interested in the site, you've got to think bigger picture than what is already there. My assumption is that any redevelopment of the Tropicana Field site would be a mixed-use development with the soccer stadium as the anchor. I could definitely see MLS being interested in the site in that scenario.


Oh sorry I misread the article, the mayor said MLS, but didn't name anyone specifically

http://www.tampabay.com/news/growth/kriseman-mls-intrigued-by-tropicana-field-as-soccer-site/2332210


----------



## slipperydog

USL announces return to Austin in 2019 at Circuit of the Americas










http://www.uslsoccer.com/news_article/show/821487?referrer_id=2333971


----------



## pesto

EarthMachOne said:


> Mercedes Benz stadium was designed to quickly convert between events. it's a non issue. all it involves is some adjustments on the field/pitch. This is not like the old multi use domes and stadiums of the 70s.
> 
> New stadiums and Arenas are built to do 12-24 hr turnaround for events. Look at how Little Caesars Arena in Detroit is configured. It's been designed so that it can host a Red Wings hockey game on Wednesday, a Kid Rock concert on Thursday and a Pistons basketball game on Friday.


You miss the point, this is not stadium or franchise specific. But it's not worth discussing further. Suffice to say that with joint ownership one or the other will get the short end of the stick on some issues.


----------



## bd popeye

pesto said:


> You miss the point, this is not stadium or franchise specific. But it's not worth discussing further. Suffice to say that with joint ownership one or the other will get the short end of the stick on some issues.


The NFL will never be on the short end in the foreseeable future.

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/7/20/9006401/nfl-teams-revenue-tv-deal-7-billion



> The NFL split a massive $7.24 billion in revenue with all 32 teams last season. Each team received $226.4 million as part of the split, most of which comes from the various television deals. The numbers come from the Green Bay Packers' annual financial report, via the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.


and..

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtba...billion-despite-drop-in-ratings/#321a200b525b



> NFL teams can afford these huge paydays thanks to the wheelbarrow of TV money the 32 NFL teams get each year. CBS, Fox, NBC and ESPN/ABC paid roughly $5 billion last year for the rights to NFL games (DirecTV, NFL Network and foreign deals kicked in another $2 billion). The haul helped push the average NFL value to $2.34 billion with profits likely to top $100 million per team in 2016.


----------



## EarthMachOne

pesto said:


> You miss the point, this is not stadium or franchise specific. But it's not worth discussing further. Suffice to say that with joint ownership one or the other will get the short end of the stick on some issues.




NO


What is not optimal is to invest 2 billion dollars into a venue and only use it for 10 football games. Part of paying for and making a profit off a stadium is using it as much as possible. 

For the owner, being able to host two franchises out of the same stadium without having to change much of anything other than the lines on the field and the digital displays IS optimal. Also, the April start date for MLS ensures that the Stadium is in use and generating income for many of the months that the NFL is shut down.


----------



## tinyslam

EarthMachOne said:


> NO
> 
> 
> What is not optimal is to invest 2 billion dollars into a venue and only use it for 10 football games. Part of paying for and making a profit off a stadium is using it as much as possible.
> 
> For the owner, being able to host two franchises out of the same stadium without having to change much of anything other than the lines on the field and the digital displays IS optimal. Also, the April start date for MLS ensures that the Stadium is in use and generating income for many of the months that the NFL is shut down.


You are absolutely correct. Except MLS starts in March so it's even better.


----------



## Hia-leah JDM

bd popeye said:


> If so the stadium was well under its 20,000 capacity. Did members members here see the match? if so.. What did the crowd look like? Thank you!


I was one of those fans who went last week with my soggy tickets from July 12. Both times I saw an impressive turnout. Considering it's a league and tournament no one knows anything about I saw the turnout as really promising. 

The stadium was loud, the Dade Brigade never let up and the 2 dozen or so FCC fans who made it out were great. This was my 5th game this year and I always leave impressed with the product they are putting out on the field and inside the stadium. 

My grainy Instagram pic


----------



## The Game Is Up

John Ingram recuses self from Vanderbilt, MLS shared stadium effort

http://www.tennessean.com/story/spo...nderbilt-mls-shared-stadium-effort/548113001/


----------



## Lumbergo

Hia-leah JDM said:


> I was one of those fans who went last week with my soggy tickets from July 12. Both times I saw an impressive turnout. Considering it's a league and tournament no one knows anything about I saw the turnout as really promising.
> 
> The stadium was loud, the Dade Brigade never let up and the 2 dozen or so FCC fans who made it out were great. This was my 5th game this year and I always leave impressed with the product they are putting out on the field and inside the stadium.
> 
> My grainy Instagram pic


why couldn't the Strikers ever pull in crowds like that? such a shame.


----------



## The Game Is Up

http://www.commercialappeal.com/sto...ting-professional-soccer-franchise/554728001/



> It’s March 2019. You head down to AutoZone Park, buy a hot dog and a cold beer, and find your seat to cheer on — a Memphis professional soccer team?
> 
> Yes, a Memphis professional soccer team.
> 
> According to two people with knowledge of the negotiations, the Redbirds ownership group has been in discussions to bring a United Soccer League team to Memphis, which could begin play in AutoZone Park as early as 2019.
> 
> Craig Unger, the president, general manager and part owner of the Redbirds, declined to comment on the possibility.
> 
> Asked about a report by the soccer website soctakes.com that the addition of a Memphis franchise was a “done deal,” Unger said, “We are aware of that social media report. We are focused completely on the Redbirds historic season and are getting ready to sell playoff tickets.”
> 
> What Unger didn’t say: “Are you crazy? That report is nonsense.”


----------



## pesto

EarthMachOne said:


> NO
> 
> 
> What is not optimal is to invest 2 billion dollars into a venue and only use it for 10 football games. Part of paying for and making a profit off a stadium is using it as much as possible.
> 
> For the owner, being able to host two franchises out of the same stadium without having to change much of anything other than the lines on the field and the digital displays IS optimal. Also, the April start date for MLS ensures that the Stadium is in use and generating income for many of the months that the NFL is shut down.


Sorry, but you just keep missing the point. No one is arguing on that point.

The point is that if there is one owner with two franchises, there will come times when one franchise will be favored to the detriment of the other. As bd popeye points out, this will generally mean the smaller franchise.


----------



## EarthMachOne

pesto said:


> Sorry, but you just keep missing the point. No one is arguing on that point.
> 
> The point is that if there is one owner with two franchises, there will come times when one franchise will be favored to the detriment of the other. As bd popeye points out, this will generally mean the smaller franchise.


please give an actual example. 

It's not scheduling. As I've noted above the two teams play on different nights of the week. 

It can't be actual investment, since Atlanta United has the most expensive stadium and training facility in North America. Their owner has spared no expense in creating and equipping the club.

i'm trying to think of other owners that have more than one sports franchise. The Ilitches for example own the Detroit Tigers and Detroit Red Wings. While they've hired some lousy front office people over the years I can't think of any example of them slighting one team to favor the other.

Merritt Paulson owns both the Portland Timbers and the Portland Thorns. Both teams share a stadium with the Portland State University football team. I can't think of a single example of the Thorns being short changed by Paulson in favor of the Timbers. In fact, the Thorns are arguably the most successful and talented professional women's soccer team on earth. almost all the other teams in the NWSL play matches on small high school or college pitches, or in empty stadiums. The Thorns this year have 3 matches with over 18,000 people in attendance.


----------



## pesto

EarthMachOne said:


> please give an actual example.
> 
> It's not scheduling. As I've noted above the two teams play on different nights of the week.
> 
> It can't be actual investment, since Atlanta United has the most expensive stadium and training facility in North America. Their owner has spared no expense in creating and equipping the club.
> 
> i'm trying to think of other owners that have more than one sports franchise. The Ilitches for example own the Detroit Tigers and Detroit Red Wings. While they've hired some lousy front office people over the years I can't think of any example of them slighting one team to favor the other.
> 
> Merritt Paulson owns both the Portland Timbers and the Portland Thorns. Both teams share a stadium with the Portland State University football team. I can't think of a single example of the Thorns being short changed by Paulson in favor of the Timbers. In fact, the Thorns are arguably the most successful and talented professional women's soccer team on earth. almost all the other teams in the NWSL play matches on small high school or college pitches, or in empty stadiums. The Thorns this year have 3 matches with over 18,000 people in attendance.


Really, unless you work for one of the teams it's hard to say. It could be premium seating design, promotions, special uses of the field, use of excess budget, limits on hiring, collecting political favors, etc. You can't see it, but it happens every week. It just has to given shared facilities; think about what the word "sharing" means; neither side gets everything he wants.

With two owners, independent decisions are made to maximize the benefit to each team; with a single owner decisions are made with a view to maximizing the benefit to both teams together, as a single unit. Doesn't matter if one teams gets screwed if the overall result is better.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Gentlemen, I believe we've achieved a stalemate in this sidebar re: this aspect of shared venues. Please table further discussion or take it to PM. Thank you.


----------



## RMB2007

*Minnesota United*



> At the construction site in St. Paul, a central tower crane has taken up residence and the hole for Minnesota United's soccer stadium is about 40 to 50 percent dug
> 
> Team owner Bill McGuire said the Kentucky bluegrass that will cover Allianz Field, United’s new soccer-specific stadium in St. Paul’s Midway neighborhood, will be planted this week in Colorado.
> 
> The steel will arrive in late September or October. “That’ll be the most noticeable thing that occurs,” McGuire said.


www.startribune.com/new-stadium-for-loons-takes-shape/439762483/?linkId=40859729


----------



## Nacre

EarthMachOne said:


> please give an actual example.


As much as it galls me to support Pesto . . .

The field at Seattle's NFL/MLS stadium is designed to meet the needs of the American football (very short "grass" and hard packed sand) rather than soccer (longer artificial grass and more sponginess.)

Then there's the total lack of interest in the Revs from Bob Kraft.

For the most part, though, a good ownership group with shares in both an NFL and MLS team will want both of them to succeed. With the notable exception of the field issue in Seattle NFL/MLS relations are mostly excellent. Maybe in 20 years the Sounders and Atlanta United will need their own stadiums, but for the moment it is clearly a massive bonus to have a large, well-serviced stadium that an MLS team does not have to pay for.


----------



## pesto

Nacre said:


> *As much as it galls me to support Pesto . . .
> 
> *The field at Seattle's NFL/MLS stadium is designed to meet the needs of the American football (very short "grass" and hard packed sand) rather than soccer (longer artificial grass and more sponginess.)
> 
> Then there's the total lack of interest in the Revs from Bob Kraft.
> 
> For the most part, though, a good ownership group with shares in both an NFL and MLS team will want both of them to succeed. With the notable exception of the field issue in Seattle NFL/MLS relations are mostly excellent. Maybe in 20 years the Sounders and Atlanta United will need their own stadiums, but for the moment it is clearly a massive bonus to have a large, well-serviced stadium that an MLS team does not have to pay for.


Try not to think of it as supporting me. Just think of it as being accurate instead. :lol:


----------



## Manitopiaaa

krnboy1009 said:


> Sacramento is a lock IMO. So it's three spots up for grabs IMO.
> 
> Sacramento has EVERYTHING MLS wants. They can't turn them down. Not every market is going to be a big market. For the most part MLS has the big markets covered anyway.


Sacramento has a small population, doesn't fill any geographic holes, and is not flashy like a San Diego or Miami bid. It's also still quite close to San Francisco. And the NBA team has struggled.

So it has plenty of cons. That said, I would be shocked if it didn't get in. It has a great fanbase and has its s*** together. There's something to be said for MLS awarding to a city like Sacramento that has paid its dues for years. I'd hate for them to get passed over after putting forward a strong, complete bid.


----------



## pesto

Manitopiaaa said:


> Sacramento has a small population, doesn't fill any geographic holes, and is not flashy like a San Diego or Miami bid. It's also still quite close to San Francisco. And the NBA team has struggled.
> 
> So it has plenty of cons. That said, I would be shocked if it didn't get in. It has a great fanbase and has its s*** together. There's something to be said for MLS awarding to a city like Sacramento that has paid its dues for years. I'd hate for them to get passed over after putting forward a strong, complete bid.


All true; it is very marginal. For sure it doesn't compare to SD or Miami except in fan loyalty. They are a rowdy group.

But on the flip side, it is growing and the nearest MLS, NHL or NFL competition is 120 miles plus away and MLB not much closer. There is potential to get the Sacramento, Stockton, North Bay market (Vallejo, Napa, Fairfield) which is three million plus people.

But the question MLS should be asking is: what does this do for MLS?


----------



## Guest

Manitopiaaa said:


> Sacramento has a small population, doesn't fill any geographic holes, and is not flashy like a San Diego or Miami bid. It's also still quite close to San Francisco. And the NBA team has struggled.
> 
> So it has plenty of cons. That said, I would be shocked if it didn't get in. It has a great fanbase and has its s*** together. There's something to be said for MLS awarding to a city like Sacramento that has paid its dues for years. I'd hate for them to get passed over after putting forward a strong, complete bid.


Orlando Magic are s*** too. So what? What does that prove about Orlando City? As much as the Kings do about the Republic. 

It's close to San Francisco? Oh you mean the city that has no MLS team? Good to know. 

Not as flashy as Miami? How about I propose to you that _both_ Miami and Sacramento can get into MLS? I know... crazy.

As for San Diego being flashy...:lol:


----------



## bd popeye

*MLS* attendance thru the 22nd week of the 2017 season.


----------



## JJG

5portsF4n said:


> As for San Diego being flashy...:lol:


Instead of "flashy", I think he meant _attractive_...


----------



## Chevy114

I wish MLS would put percentage filled on that list, it's hard to tell if these teams are doing well or not


----------



## pesto

Chevy114 said:


> I wish MLS would put percentage filled on that list, it's hard to tell if these teams are doing well or not


You also need the price of tickets. Giveaways or donations to charity are a factor in some sports. Attendance is fun for us to look at but revenues is what matters most in the front office.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Chevy114 said:


> I wish MLS would put percentage filled on that list, it's hard to tell if these teams are doing well or not


Agreed. I'll see if I can get that put together sometime. In the interim here's a napkin-quality capacity reference for you: 

42-46k - ATL/SEA
27k - TOR/NYC
25k - LAG/ORL/NYRB/VAN
18-21k - Everyone else*

The ones I haven't listed and why:
NER - Gillette stadium obviously huge but usually only selling bottom tier and portions of tier 2, for a listed capacity (IIRC) of about 33k.
DCU - RFK typically only opens the bottom tier and would seat about 25k, I think. They move into a 20k venue next season.
Minn - Currently in UofM's 50k venue. Moving into a 20k venue by 2019.

So by 2020 Everyone should be in a right-sized venue, with the folks struggling to meet 85-90% capacity likely the ones struggling on the pitch. IIRC, last year the folks in their own MLS-built venues averaged roughly 17k+ out of 19k capacity, so it wasn't bad. The benchmarks most seasoned MLS fans monitor are 17k average per team, as that was one threshold a few years ago that was said to be necessary to possibly reach a profit, and 15k which everyone hopes is the new low-water mark now that we have hopefully done away with crowds closer to 10k.


----------



## Calvin W

Why not make a list by % of capacity. More realistic in my view to see which teams play to sell out crowds vs empty stadiums.


----------



## Nacre

Calvin W said:


> Why not make a list by % of capacity. More realistic in my view to see which teams play to sell out crowds vs empty stadiums.


By percentage of seats sold or total seats in the stadium? What about ticket prices? Things get complicated when you start to look at other variables.

Ticket prices for the Sounders are going up roughly 25% next year, for example, because the team would rather sell tickets for higher prices than increase total fans in the stadium. (I suppose they do not want to pay for more ushers and police?) And AFAIK they already had the highest average ticket price in MLS in addition to having >40,000 attendance.


----------



## Calvin W

Nacre said:


> By percentage of seats sold or total seats in the stadium? What about ticket prices? Things get complicated when you start to look at other variables.
> 
> Ticket prices for the Sounders are going up roughly 25% next year, for example, because the team would rather sell tickets for higher prices than increase total fans in the stadium. (I suppose they do not want to pay for more ushers and police?) And AFAIK they already had the highest average ticket price in MLS in addition to having >40,000 attendance.


Simple average attendance % of capacity available for sale. Seattle seats around 67,000 but what is the figure for sale each game?


----------



## Lumbergo

Unfortunately not. It's below 20k.


----------



## spectre000

We do have a thread for it and the surrounding development in the Minneapolis/St. Paul sub forum.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1860505


----------



## achase32

Then why do Chase Center and Milwaukee Bucks Arena have threads in "Under Construction"? Both are under 20,000.


----------



## JJG

achase32 said:


> Then why do Chase Center and Milwaukee Bucks Arena have threads in "Under Construction"? Both are under 20,000.


Arenas get a pass. 

Unless it's for most college basketball gyms or if they're under 10k, multi-purpose arenas get their own threads.


----------



## tinyslam

Yup the limit for Stadia is 20k, Arenas is 10k.


----------



## FCIM

spectre000 said:


> We do have a thread for it and the surrounding development in the Minneapolis/St. Paul sub forum.
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1860505


Ahh ok. Thanks for that, at least i know i can follow the progress. 

Hopefully it has some sort of expansion in the future.


----------



## SounderBruce

2026 World Cup stadiums have been whittled down to a list of 41. Calgary, Green Bay and San Diego all drop out.

http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/201...exico-usa-submit-bids-as-2026-world-cup-hosts


----------



## JayD309

Anyone know why they would remove pics I posted? It was just pictures of Mercedes Benz stadium.


----------



## RMB2007

JayD309 said:


> Anyone know why they would remove pics I posted? It was just pictures of Mercedes Benz stadium.


This thread is for stadiums with a capacity under 20,000. Mercedes Benz Stadium has its own thread in the completed section.


----------



## JayD309

RMB2007 said:


> This thread is for stadiums with a capacity under 20,000. Mercedes Benz Stadium has its own thread in the completed section.


Lol, oops.


----------



## bd popeye

*MLS attendance thru the 26th week of the 2017 season...*


----------



## Pellshekk

I don't know much about the history of MLS attendances, but those numbers look pretty healthy to me.


----------



## pesto

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...st-global-appeal-premier-league-a7935821.html

Do Inglewood and LV (among others) count as soccer stadiums? They may soon, as La Liga announces it is looking into playing league matches outside the US. 

As has been mentioned in other threads, Inglewood and LV have been rumored to be discussing the possibility of having a regular series of matches or tournaments including not just La Liga but the Italian, Mexican and Chinese leagues as well. LV in particular will have the ability to move between grass and artificial turf quickly so it sounds like a nice potential source of income for Mark and the Raiders.

It will also be interesting if the Premier League will want to fight this or join in and share in the profits that both the US and China promise. MLS will have to look at the implications as well and start to generate match-ups that have broad appeal.


----------



## Guest

pesto said:


> http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...st-global-appeal-premier-league-a7935821.html
> 
> Do Inglewood and LV (among others) count as soccer stadiums? They may soon, as La Liga announces it is looking into playing league matches outside the US.
> 
> As has been mentioned in other threads, Inglewood and LV have been rumored to be discussing the possibility of having a regular series of matches or tournaments including not just La Liga but the Italian, Mexican and Chinese leagues as well. LV in particular will have the ability to move between grass and artificial turf quickly so it sounds like a nice potential source of income for Mark and the Raiders.
> 
> It will also be interesting if the Premier League will want to fight this or join in and share in the profits that both the US and China promise. MLS will have to look at the implications as well and start to generate match-ups that have broad appeal.


Any official games would need approval from the USSF. But you knew that being a soccer fan at all...


----------



## Rover030

pesto said:


> http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...st-global-appeal-premier-league-a7935821.html
> 
> Do Inglewood and LV (among others) count as soccer stadiums? They may soon, as La Liga announces it is looking into playing league matches outside the US.
> 
> As has been mentioned in other threads, Inglewood and LV have been rumored to be discussing the possibility of having a regular series of matches or tournaments including not just La Liga but the Italian, Mexican and Chinese leagues as well. LV in particular will have the ability to move between grass and artificial turf quickly so it sounds like a nice potential source of income for Mark and the Raiders.
> 
> It will also be interesting if the Premier League will want to fight this or join in and share in the profits that both the US and China promise. MLS will have to look at the implications as well and start to generate match-ups that have broad appeal.


I can only see this happening as part of a 39th matchday. In that case it would just be a friendly. Either way, there aren't that many teams that are supported worldwide. It's Real Madrid, FC Barcelona, and to a lesser extent Atlético Madrid that are popular outside of Spain. Sticking to the current model of friendly tournaments like the International Champions Cup is probably more profitable than playing 10 matches in one weekend of which only 3 are going to generate some interest. Barely anyone in Spain cares about matches like Getafe - Espanyol, let alone in the US or China.


----------



## pesto

Rover030 said:


> I can only see this happening as part of a 39th matchday. In that case it would just be a friendly. Either way, there aren't that many teams that are supported worldwide. It's Real Madrid, FC Barcelona, and to a lesser extent Atlético Madrid that are popular outside of Spain. Sticking to the current model of friendly tournaments like the International Champions Cup is probably more profitable than playing 10 matches in one weekend of which only 3 are going to generate some interest. Barely anyone in Spain cares about matches like Getafe - Espanyol, let alone in the US or China.


The 39th match concept from a few years back has been discarded; these are standard league matches with perhaps friendlies mixed in.

For sure Barca and RM are the spearhead; those are the chips that La Liga brings to the table. The US brings a huge audience; the NFL brings NY, LA, LV and other stadiums. 

The idea is to take a couple of other leagues (Italy, Mexico, China) and bring in their top teams plus a couple on the next level down and try to create a fan base. See what the NFL has done in London.

For example, Barca, Juventus, 2-6 other Sp/It/Mex/Chn sides play a series of league and friendly matches in LA, LV, SF. You hope to attract foreign visitors plus build a fan base for the non-US sides.

Interesting to see how MLS reacts, as well as the UK, Germany and France if they are not included.


----------



## tinyslam

I think friendlies are enough to attract the US fan base without pissing off the foreigners too much. I can't see locals in Barcalona or Madrid being content with loosing one or two home games a season. I don't know why you include the Chinese league in there. It is nowhere near the following of even the French or Dutch Leagues in the US.


----------



## pedro-Silesia

tinyslam said:


> I think friendlies are enough to attract the US fan base without pissing off the foreigners too much. I can't see locals in Barcalona or Madrid being content with loosing one or two home games a season. I don't know why you include the Chinese league in there. It is nowhere near the following of even the French or Dutch Leagues in the US.


I think fans in Europe and especially players are quite pissed off with pre season tours outside Europe. Regular game outside country rather impossible. 

Since you are from Atlanta can you tell what are roots of high attendance in Atlanta?


----------



## pesto

tinyslam said:


> I think friendlies are enough to attract the US fan base without pissing off the foreigners too much. I can't see locals in Barcalona or Madrid being content with loosing one or two home games a season. I don't know why you include the Chinese league in there. It is nowhere near the following of even the French or Dutch Leagues in the US.


Just to be clear, this is not my thinking: this is the European league people, NFL people, LV casino owners and other investors talking.

China is in because it has the money committed to dwarf any other league in 20 years. They also have 300M people ready to come to matches in LA, SF or LV and spend money (or drop 100k at the tables).


----------



## Rover030

tinyslam said:


> I think friendlies are enough to attract the US fan base without pissing off the foreigners too much. *I can't see locals in Barcalona or Madrid being content with loosing one or two home games a season.* I don't know why you include the Chinese league in there. It is nowhere near the following of even the French or Dutch Leagues in the US.


This is especially relevant, because those clubs are fan-owned by the local supporters. 

Away matches could be a possibility, if enough of the profits are shared with the smaller clubs. But then you'll get the big clubs questioning why they have to travel huge distances to play matches for which the profits are shared, while they are the only teams supporters are interested in. The travel also hurts their chances in the domestic and European leagues.

Next to those rational arguments I also just hate the idea. Spain's football clubs should play in Spain, Italy's in Italy etc. Pre-season friendlies, sure, but I would really dislike clubs selling their souls even further.


----------



## Scba

Not USA or Canada, but still North America. Greenland's trying to build their first stadium (a dome, cap. 3000)

http://stadiumdb.com/news/2017/02/new_design_the_snowdrift_of_greenland

Looks like it's been put on hold until the funding clears up, but is still in the plans.


----------



## RMB2007

> Nashville Sports Authority approves $225M bond resolution for new MLS stadium
> 
> The Metro Sports Authority on Thursday voted unanimously to approve a $225 million bond resolution for a new Major League Soccer stadium at the city's fairgrounds, clearing one more step before Mayor Megan Barry's proposal heads to the Metro Council next month.
> 
> After aroundsix minutes of discussion, the sports authority signed off on a deal to issue up to $225 million in revenue bonds for a 27,500-seat stadium that carries a $250 million overall price tag. The sports authority would own the facility if it is built.
> 
> "This is the best sports proposal, from the city's perspective, that we've seen," said sports authority member Dudley West. "The city has minimal financial risk. I think It's a good opportunity for the city."
> 
> The action by the sports authority — whose overwhelming support had been expected — is not binding, but it does mark a necessary hurdle to move the proposal forward.
> 
> The council is scheduled to take up the same $225 million bond resolution on Nov. 7, in what will be the decisive vote for the project proposed by Barry and an MLS ownership group led Nashville businessman John Ingram.
> 
> Bonds for the project would only be issued if Nashville is awarded one of two MLS expansion franchises that the league plans to announce in December.
> 
> Vice Mayor David Briley has organized a public hearing on the MLS proposal that will take pace Oct. 24 at 6 p.m. at the fairgrounds. It comes one week after advocates of the fairgrounds slammed the soccer stadium proposal during a public comments period before the fair board last week.
> 
> Under Barry’s stadium financing plan, in addition to the $225 million in revenue bonds for the stadium, Metro would issue an additional $25 million in general obligation bonds for fairgrounds infrastructure upgrades, and another $25 million for fairgrounds facility improvements including new buildings to replace dilapidated structures that would be torn down.
> 
> The ownership team, under a 30-year stadium lease agreement, would pay the city $25 million in cash and $9 million a year to pay off Metro’s stadium debt. Sales tax revenue and dollars from a ticket tax would make up the additional $4 million in annual $13 million debt payments.
> 
> Metro would be on the hook to pay the difference if the sales tax and ticket tax revenue fall short.


www.tennessean.com/story/news/2017/...rts-authority-goes-to-council-next/757125001/


----------



## flashman

carnifex2005 said:


> 30,596 in Cincinnati tonight to watch the US Women bean New Zealand 5-0.


It's starting to look like this great fan support will pay off with an MLS franchise soon. 

The owners of the unloved, largely ignored Columbus Crew have sniffed the wind and deducted that the great atmosphere that Cincy generates does not bode well for their future. Whatever rivalry it might generate would be more than offset by a stronger marketing appeal for fans and sponsors from Cincy. And Mapfre Stadium is a dowdy dowager that needs replacing.

Is it worth it to spend mega millions to build a new schwingy stadium in a market that, despite seeing a title winner in 2008, has hardly embraced the sport over more than two decades of play? It would seem not.

So, they've sensibly chosen to move to Austin, Texas, leaving the door open to immediately fill the void in Ohio with a team in Cincy. 

This stadium has artificial turf, yes? What's the chances of seeing it changed to real grass when MLS comes in? How many other sports events are played there that might negatively impact the playing quality for soccer of a grass surface?

When MLS awards the franchise, are there any significant modifications needed/expected to the stadium?


----------



## GunnerJacket

flashman said:


> It's starting to look like this great fan support will pay off with an MLS franchise soon.
> 
> The owners of the unloved, largely ignored Columbus Crew have sniffed the wind and deducted that the great atmosphere that Cincy generates does not bode well for their future. Whatever rivalry it might generate would be more than offset by a stronger marketing appeal for fans and sponsors from Cincy. And Mapfre Stadium is a dowdy dowager that needs replacing.
> 
> Is it worth it to spend mega millions to build a new schwingy stadium in a market that, despite seeing a title winner in 2008, has hardly embraced the sport over more than two decades of play? It would seem not.
> 
> So, they've sensibly chosen to move to Austin, Texas, leaving the door open to immediately fill the void in Ohio with a team in Cincy.


That's one opinion. The other is to say that the owner bought in knowing he intended to move the team all along (as the recent press is revealing), has given lip service to the locals since then and is trading media market #31 for market #39, where he'll have to spend equal or more money to rebuild the infrastructure but can at least satisfy his lust for Austin. And owners wonder why fans are less likely to be brand loyal these days. Meanwhile, what had been an emerging favorite hub for USMNT games is now wondering its fate.

Potentially a shrewd move for the owner, but a step back for MLS and US soccer fans in general. 


> This stadium has artificial turf, yes? What's the chances of seeing it changed to real grass when MLS comes in? How many other sports events are played there that might negatively impact the playing quality for soccer of a grass surface?
> 
> When MLS awards the franchise, are there any significant modifications needed/expected to the stadium?


MLS has already told Cincy they'll need a new venue of their own, and the club has preliminary plans (buried somewhere in this thread) showing a design concept and thoughts on different location options. If they make it to MLS Nippert Stadium will only be a temporary venue unless the University gives a few more financial concessions to the team.


----------



## bd popeye

Say it ain't so 'Tony!..say it ain't so!!

*Columbus Crew Angling Toward Relocation to Austin in 2019*



> Unless a new downtown stadium is erected, the Columbus Crew will head south following the 2018 season.
> 
> By Grant Wahl October 16, 2017
> 
> The Columbus Crew, one of MLS’s original teams, is angling to move its franchise to Austin, Texas, SI.com has learned.
> 
> Columbus owner Anthony Precourt is set to announce in a press conference on Tuesday that he will move his team to Austin in 2019 if a downtown soccer stadium for the Crew cannot be finalized in the next year.
> 
> Precourt, who lives in California, did not reply to a message on Monday night.
> 
> Alex Fischer, the president and CEO of the Columbus Partnership, a group of 60 Columbus business leaders and CEOs, said Precourt had rejected offers to buy 100 percent and 50 percent of the Crew by a group of local business and community leaders in Columbus. (On Tuesday, Precourt denied that there had been offers to buy the team.)
> 
> “We met with ownership a month ago to discuss their stadium study and plans and ideas for a new stadium in Columbus,” Fischer told SI.com. “Those conversations turned up the fact that ownership had been in extensive conversations over the last number of months with leaders in Austin about a possible new stadium and moving the team there.”
> 
> Fischer continued: “We’ve received notice from the ownership that at a press conference [Tuesday] they are going to announce they are jointly pursuing that plan in Austin as well as continuing conversations about a possible new stadium in Columbus.”
> 
> When asked if he thought Precourt was seeking public financing or support for the stadiums in Columbus and Austin, Fischer was clear. “I think there’s no question he expects public financing and or support for any stadium in either city,” he said.
> 
> If Precourt moves the team to Austin, it’s expected it would play in a temporary facility in 2019 and ’20 before moving into a new urban soccer stadium in 2021.
> 
> The Crew’s Mapfre Stadium was MLS’s first soccer-specific stadium when it was built in 1999. But its amenities are far behind those of other, more recently-built stadiums in the league. Precourt bought the team in 2013, but the financial side has been challenging. A source with knowledge of the situation said Columbus has been in the bottom three teams of nearly every MLS business metric for a decade.
> 
> A source with knowledge of the situation told SI.com the league expects Austin will have votes in December and again in June 2018 on a soccer stadium in that city. (The city of Austin and Columbus dispute that assertion.)
> 
> On the field, Columbus has been on a terrific run of form as it heads into the MLS playoffs.
> 
> Said Fischer, “It’s a real disappointment for our players and our fans to have this news coming out on the eve of the playoffs. But I guess owners have to make the decisions they have to make.”


_Hello Columbus Crew fan! Any chance of the Crew staying in Columbus?
What's wrong with their present stadium besides it's age? Thanks!_


----------



## Rover030

This is absolutely pathetic. I genuinely thought MLS would be _the_ North American league to be above this, but apparently not. Moving teams while still expanding makes is stupid anyway. If there's such a large unexploited market in Austin, why are they not starting their own team?


----------



## JJG

Rover030 said:


> This is absolutely pathetic.* I genuinely thought MLS would be the North American league to be above this,* but apparently not. Moving teams while still expanding makes is stupid anyway. If there's such a large unexploited market in Austin, why are they not starting their own team?


Um... no. 

EVERY professional sports league in America and Canada are corporations and have franchises that can be moved and/or fold like any business. MLS is not above this. No league in this country is.

Also, this has _been_ happening already in this league. The Houston Dynamo are the original San Jose Earthquakes, ya know.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Nashville more competitive with MLS soccer team and stadium

http://www.tennessean.com/story/opi...titive-mls-soccer-team-and-stadium/772225001/


----------



## JJG

The Game Is Up said:


> Nashville more competitive with MLS soccer team and stadium
> 
> http://www.tennessean.com/story/opi...titive-mls-soccer-team-and-stadium/772225001/


Yeah, my only thought on the Columbus thing is... why Austin? 

There are like EIGHT cities I can think of off the top of my head that would be more suitable before them. Nashville is just one.


----------



## pesto

JJG said:


> Yeah, my only thought on the Columbus thing is... why Austin?
> 
> There are like EIGHT cities I can think of off the top of my head that would be more suitable before them. Nashville is just one.


Considering size of the city and metro, growth rates and demographics, Austin seems like a very good choice. Sure there are other cities but with the right stadium it's hard to beat them.

Columbus, of course, was an outlier to begins with and now is a failed experiment economically.


----------



## pesto

Rover030 said:


> This is absolutely pathetic. I genuinely thought MLS would be _the_ North American league to be above this, but apparently not. Moving teams while still expanding makes is stupid anyway. If there's such a large unexploited market in Austin, why are they not starting their own team?


Again, why not move teams as population and industrial growth continues? T the NBA had a team in Ft. Wayne when there were no teams in California, Texas or Florida. Baseball and football similarly had teams that would seem very odd today while the south and west were empty.

The league could expand but why not cull the cities which are obvious losers economically while you are in the process? This is how every business works.


----------



## JJG

pesto said:


> Considering size of the city and metro, growth rates and demographics, Austin seems like a very good choice. Sure there are other cities but with the right stadium it's hard to beat them.
> 
> Columbus, of course, was an outlier to begins with and now is a failed experiment economically.



Growth and demographics aside, the Longhorns still own that town as far as sports go.

That, and San Antonio just 80 miles down the road is much closer and more likely to recieve a club.


----------



## Rover030

pesto said:


> Again, why not move teams as population and industrial growth continues? T the NBA had a team in Ft. Wayne when there were no teams in California, Texas or Florida. Baseball and football similarly had teams that would seem very odd today while the south and west were empty.
> 
> The league could expand but why not cull the cities which are obvious losers economically while you are in the process? This is how every business works.


We've been over this before. Sports is not just any business. I think fan experience and tradition should be more important than making profit.

It's not as if the rest of the world doesn't have a system to give those new population centres a chance. It's called promotion and relegation. That way you don't need to take away teams from fans, you simply start new teams to compete with them.


----------



## KingmanIII

pesto said:


> Considering size of the city and metro, growth rates and demographics, Austin seems like a very good choice. Sure there are other cities but with the right stadium it's hard to beat them.
> 
> Columbus, of course, was an outlier to begins with and now is a failed experiment economically.


C-bus metro is roughly the same population as Austin (~2.1M) and has grown by 10% or more every decade since 1970.

Kansas City and Salt Lake are two of the league's most successful markets, and their populations are in the same ballpark.

Same goes for Cincy, who are shattering lower-division records for attendance.


----------



## Calvin W

pesto said:


> Again, why not move teams as population and industrial growth continues? T the NBA had a team in Ft. Wayne when there were no teams in California, Texas or Florida. Baseball and football similarly had teams that would seem very odd today while the south and west were empty.
> 
> The league could expand but why not cull the cities which are obvious losers economically while you are in the process? This is how every business works.


So in five years time when Miami fails, the same will apply. Pull the plug and move to supposedly greener pastures.


----------



## Guest

Trawled forums, websites, and I must be the only person who thinks this move is a fantastic idea if they can secure a stadium in a good location. Columbus could've worked better with a better stadium location, but the reality is that they have what they have. If there's a better option in Austin, you're not really downgrading. At the very worst, it's a sideways move. Cincinnati is more than likely going to fill the Columbus hole in that neck of the woods, so all in all, it makes sense.


----------



## bd popeye

Rover030 said:


> We've been over this before. Sports is not just any business. I think fan experience and tradition should be more important than making profit.


No one is in business to lose money. Team owners are businessmen first and sports fans later.



Rover030 said:


> It's not as if the rest of the world doesn't have a system to give those new population centres a chance. It's called promotion and relegation. That way you don't need to take away teams from fans, you simply start new teams to compete with them.


As stated many times in this and other threads promotion and relegation won't happen NOW in the US or Canada...owners who shell out millions and billions for sports franchises will not stand for their clubs being moved to a lower division..and neither will the fans...Perhaps someday far in the future promotion and relegation will work in US or Canada..but not now.

A link to all the promotion and relegation discussion in this thread.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/search.php?searchid=25494597

new link^^


----------



## Chevy114

I bet the fans would like it more than the owners. Fans want the best product on the field and if it takes getting demoted to prove to an owner he/she isn't doing enough, then I think fans would enjoy that instead of sitting through 1 playoff game in 10 years like my local NFL team has going on currently.


----------



## GunnerJacket

bd popeye said:


> As stated many times in this and other threads promotion and relegation won't happen NOW in the US or Canada...owners who shell out millions and billions for sports franchises will not stand for their clubs being moved to a lower division..and neither will the fans...Perhaps someday far in the future promotion and relegation will work in US or Canada..but not now.
> 
> A link to all the promotion and relegation discussion in this thread.
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/search.php?searchid=25493931


Your link isn't working, good sir.


----------



## pesto

KingmanIII said:


> C-bus metro is roughly the same population as Austin (~2.1M) and has grown by 10% or more every decade since 1970.
> 
> Kansas City and Salt Lake are two of the league's most successful markets, and their populations are in the same ballpark.
> 
> Same goes for Cincy, who are shattering lower-division records for attendance.


Why talk about cities which are not available? And why talk about a city that is a proven failure (note the comment on their financials).

I am not a defender of Austin but between it and nearby San Antonio there are 5M people and high growth rates with a strong tech base. I can easily understand why someone might look seriously at an offer of a quality stadium there.


----------



## Rover030

bd popeye said:


> No one is in business to lose money. Team owners are businessmen first and sports fans later.
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/search.php?searchid=25493931


If the owner can find no way to make profit on that Columbus team he is either a horrible businessman or is appointing horrible executives.

Also, that statement is not necessarily true anyway. There are lots of team owners (and sponsors) in sports that lose money on their teams, because they're fans first. The owner of my local football club (FC Utrecht) for instance.


----------



## bd popeye

GunnerJacket said:


> Your link isn't working, good sir.


Thanks, try this..

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/search.php?searchid=25494597


----------



## Rover030

bd popeye said:


> Thanks, try this..
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/search.php?searchid=25494597


It also doesn't work for me, I guess you can't link search entries for some reason. But I understand the point, it is not realistic to implement promotion and relegation at this point in the MLS and you're tired of the discussion. I understand that, but it's not going to stop me from criticising the system they chose to implement if fans are being ****ed over like they are right now.


----------



## pesto

Rover030 said:


> We've been over this before. Sports is not just any business. I think fan experience and tradition should be more important than making profit.
> 
> It's not as if the rest of the world doesn't have a system to give those new population centres a chance. It's called promotion and relegation. That way you don't need to take away teams from fans, you simply start new teams to compete with them.


True, but not relevant. US sports franchises are not going to be subject to promotion and relegation for some time as far as I can tell. The approach is to sell franchises and then see if those franchises are doing well in those locations or if it is better for the league to have them in different cities.

In any event you are chasing your own tail with that argument. Here's a great chance for someone else to start a Columbus club if they want to take a chance where others have failed. Maybe they can get fans to come out where the old owners couldn't. In fact, I hope they do since I would love to give Columbus another chance to show they can support a team.


----------



## pesto

Calvin W said:


> So in five years time when Miami fails, the same will apply. Pull the plug and move to supposedly greener pastures.


If Miami fails and is losing money without building brand value for the league or itself, then MLS has to decide whether to allow a move or insist on new ownership.


----------



## pesto

Chevy114 said:


> I bet the fans would like it more than the owners. Fans want the best product on the field and if it takes getting demoted to prove to an owner he/she isn't doing enough, then I think fans would enjoy that instead of sitting through 1 playoff game in 10 years like my local NFL team has going on currently.


Good point and one that gets discussed at the sports business sites: in a world where media revenue sharing makes even the weakest franchises rich how do you weed out lazy or incompetent owners and uncooperative cities who do nothing for the league?


----------



## pesto

Rover030 said:


> It also doesn't work for me, I guess you can't link search entries for some reason. But I understand the point, it is not realistic to implement promotion and relegation at this point in the MLS and you're tired of the discussion. I understand that, but it's not going to stop me from criticising the system they chose to implement if fans are being ****ed over like they are right now.


LOL. Which fans are you talking about? If there were enough fans paying for tickets and funding the team and stadium none of this would come up.

You do realize that your theory leaves LA, SF and a dozen other cities with no teams in some major sport? And you want to keep the Ft. Wayne fans happy by keeping a team there instead? They really can't become Indianapolis fans or whoever they choose?

If the fans don't show up why does the owner have to keep losing money there? These are not public charities, put there to perpetually lose money to provide a local service.


----------



## H.U.S.T.L.E.

pesto said:


> Good point and one that gets discussed at the sports business sites: in a world where media revenue sharing makes even the weakest franchises rich how do you weed out lazy or incompetent owners and uncooperative cities who do nothing for the league?


Okay, a few things.

Yes, Columbus has had some of the lowest attendance in the league the past few years. I'm not in the market, but apparently there hasn't been much of a push to engage the market from ownership's end either. Just from reading some things here & there, the team's marketing is practically nonexistent, they have a terrible local TV deal that blacks out fans within a 75-mile radius unless you're a TWC customer, nor has Precourt truly operated in good faith with the fanbase or community.

He hasn't proposed spending any private money to build a stadium to my knowledge, this announcement about moving the team came about a month after season-ticket renewals were locked in, and he's tone-deaf (and maybe completely idiotic) in his tactics. So much so, there's been reports that he "went rogue" (i.e. did not tell the rest of MLS ownership that he was making this announcement, which is bad considering the league's single-entity structure). Precourt is a sleazeball, and that's the reason this has been generating so much illwill.

Also, the "uncooperative city" line is rich, considering the mayor of Austin already said "There will be no public money for a stadium" on THE DAY THIS WAS ANNOUNCED. So, seems like Austin would fall under that same banner.


----------



## OnwardsAndUpwards

pesto said:


> Good point and one that gets discussed at the sports business sites: in a world where media revenue sharing makes even the weakest franchises rich how do you weed out lazy or incompetent owners and uncooperative cities who do nothing for the league?


The system we used to have in England to deal with this between the Football League, which used to be the only national league, and the non-league regional football was election. One member club one vote. The teams that finished in the bottom four positions would have to re-apply for their league position the next season whilst other teams could apply to enter. Between 1958 and 1986 five teams were voted out and one resigned. All the clubs that joined were located further south than those who were voted out as the south of the country became comparatively richer and more populous.

Of course the US system of paid for franchises is very different but it may be possible if a newly elected team pays a joining fee to the team that is voted out. That team would then still exist in the city in which it was created. Such votes wouldn't have to be annual and could be arranged on a basis other than league position. Feel free to shoot this idea down but it does offer another way to weed out poor performers.


----------



## Rover030

pesto said:


> True, but not relevant. US sports franchises are not going to be subject to promotion and relegation for some time as far as I can tell. The approach is to sell franchises and then see if those franchises are doing well in those locations or if it is better for the league to have them in different cities.
> 
> In any event you are chasing your own tail with that argument. Here's a great chance for someone else to start a Columbus club if they want to take a chance where others have failed. Maybe they can get fans to come out where the old owners couldn't. In fact, I hope they do since I would love to give Columbus another chance to show they can support a team.
> 
> LOL. Which fans are you talking about? If there were enough fans paying for tickets and funding the team and stadium none of this would come up.
> 
> You do realize that your theory leaves LA, SF and a dozen other cities with no teams in some major sport? And you want to keep the Ft. Wayne fans happy by keeping a team there instead? They really can't become Indianapolis fans or whoever they choose?
> 
> If the fans don't show up why does the owner have to keep losing money there? These are not public charities, put there to perpetually lose money to provide a local service.



I'm talking about the 15k fans that have kept showing up all these years. The owner could sell the club if he fails to attract more fans (like hustle said, I've read the same things). That's how it works in the rest of the world even if the club is held with a profit objective. The MLS should at the very least force the club owner to try to sell the club first, before moving it to the other side of the country.

I understand that you are biased because from your comments elsewhere you seem to be from LA, a city that has to steal pro teams from elsewhere because they didn't have their own. I'm biased in another way, being from somewhere where moving teams to the other side of the country would be absurd. Where the thought of the clubs forming a closed cartel that prevents fan-ownership and encourages profit-making is bizarre.

But do you really feel no empathy towards the fans who are on the verge of losing their team they have supported for decades? With an owner who tells he will probably move to another city conveniently a few weeks _after_ season ticket sales started?


----------



## pesto

H.U.S.T.L.E. said:


> Okay, a few things.
> 
> Yes, Columbus has had some of the lowest attendance in the league the past few years. I'm not in the market, but apparently there hasn't been much of a push to engage the market from ownership's end either. Just from reading some things here & there, the team's marketing is practically nonexistent, they have a terrible local TV deal that blacks out fans within a 75-mile radius unless you're a TWC customer, nor has Precourt truly operated in good faith with the fanbase or community.
> 
> He hasn't proposed spending any private money to build a stadium to my knowledge, this announcement about moving the team came about a month after season-ticket renewals were locked in, and he's tone-deaf (and maybe completely idiotic) in his tactics. So much so, there's been reports that he "went rogue" (i.e. did not tell the rest of MLS ownership that he was making this announcement, which is bad considering the league's single-entity structure). Precourt is a sleazeball, and that's the reason this has been generating so much illwill.
> 
> Also, the "uncooperative city" line is rich, considering the mayor of Austin already said "There will be no public money for a stadium" on THE DAY THIS WAS ANNOUNCED. So, seems like Austin would fall under that same banner.


You are basically calling for a change of ownership. If that is really the issue MLS needs to address it since a change of location is not likely to be effective.

However, my sense is that virtually any time a change of location is mentioned the fan base immediately blames the owner for not getting them to come to matches, buy gear, building a new arena, etc.


----------



## pesto

OnwardsAndUpwards said:


> The system we used to have in England to deal with this between the Football League, which used to be the only national league, and the non-league regional football was election. One member club one vote. The teams that finished in the bottom four positions would have to re-apply for their league position the next season whilst other teams could apply to enter. Between 1958 and 1986 five teams were voted out and one resigned. All the clubs that joined were located further south than those who were voted out as the south of the country became comparatively richer and more populous.
> 
> Of course the US system of paid for franchises is very different but it may be possible if a newly elected team pays a joining fee to the team that is voted out. That team would then still exist in the city in which it was created. Such votes wouldn't have to be annual and could be arranged on a basis other than league position. Feel free to shoot this idea down but it does offer another way to weed out poor performers.


So a team simply can't move, no matter what the city or fans did? They would just have to fold the franchise or continue operating in a rundown stadium with a city that was breaching the deal to maintain it and fans that were not showing up? It seems absurd that someone would have to incur the huge cost of forming a new team (which normally is non-competitive for a decade) while an existing team is forced to continue in dire straits in a dying market. 

I can't really see a league consisting of 30 plus multi-billon dollar teams operating like that. Sounds more like an amateur league ("Well, Jim, we're just not going to keep playing with you unless you replace the water cooler and spiff-up the dug-outs. Bob Jackson says he's got some boys that are pretty good and would like to play us.").


----------



## GunnerJacket

Folks, we've reached beyond the main topic of discussion into something decidedly emotional that won't be solved here. The Columbus issue will be resolved one way or the other. 

Please veer back on topic. Thank you.


----------



## tinyslam

This conversation is interesting because once again pesto is siding with the business minded side with fan minded forumers on the other side. Clearly there needs to be a balance between teams operated purely as businesses for profit and teams operated by and for fans. I tend to lean more towards the later as a passionate fan, but I can see some of the merits in pesto's arguments. 

As for this specific situation I think the owner has badly misplayed his hand and even if he ends up in Austin he will be marred and the league as a whole won't be any better off. I feel for the Columbus fans who have been supporting their team for 20 years, but as a long time follower of MLS every year I question more and more Columbus's desirability as an MLS market. I doubt they would get a team today if they never had one and had to bid as an expansion team, but they have become a part of MLS.


----------



## pesto

Rover030 said:


> I'm talking about the 15k fans that have kept showing up all these years. The owner could sell the club if he fails to attract more fans (like hustle said, I've read the same things). That's how it works in the rest of the world even if the club is held with a profit objective. The MLS should at the very least force the club owner to try to sell the club first, before moving it to the other side of the country.
> 
> I understand that you are biased because from your comments elsewhere you seem to be from LA, a city that has to steal pro teams from elsewhere because they didn't have their own. I'm biased in another way, being from somewhere where moving teams to the other side of the country would be absurd. Where the thought of the clubs forming a closed cartel that prevents fan-ownership and encourages profit-making is bizarre.
> 
> But do you really feel no empathy towards the fans who are on the verge of losing their team they have supported for decades? With an owner who tells he will probably move to another city conveniently a few weeks _after_ season ticket sales started?


Empathy? Like losing your family in a plane crash or your house burning down? Come on, these are men in shorts or helmets running around a field.

Steal? LOL. The teams were eager to come here and 6 of them are now worth over 2B. The Raiders were furious to get turned down in their bid to return to LA.

Over the years, teams have moved to and from LA. Among others, the Rams, Clippers, Lakers and Dodgers have move here and the Rams, Raiders and Chargers left. Some have both come and gone. Typically they didn't get money from the city to fund better stadiums and found other cities that would do so. Life went on.

The leagues do attempt to minimize moves; but there has to be a policy to allow them or the city just gets the team for free. That makes no sense when it is such a financial bonanza to have a major league team in the city, both psychologically and in terms of national recognition. If the city doesn't support the team, some other city will.


----------



## pesto

tinyslam said:


> This conversation is interesting because once again pesto is siding with the business minded side with fan minded forumers on the other side. Clearly there needs to be a balance between teams operated purely as businesses for profit and teams operated by and for fans. I tend to lean more towards the later as a passionate fan, but I can see some of the merits in pesto's arguments.
> 
> As for this specific situation I think the owner has badly misplayed his hand and even if he ends up in Austin he will be marred and the league as a whole won't be any better off. I feel for the Columbus fans who have been supporting their team for 20 years, but as a long time follower of MLS every year I question more and more Columbus's desirability as an MLS market. I doubt they would get a team today if they never had one and had to bid as an expansion team, but they have become a part of MLS.


I am not siding with anyone except the methodology. If the numbers say that there will be more fans made happy in Austin than will be unhappy in Columbus then by supporting the move I am siding with the fans.


----------



## bd popeye

pesto said:


> Empathy? Like losing your family in a plane crash or your house burning down? Come on, these are men in shorts or helmets running around a field.


Correct..it's just a game.



pesto said:


> The leagues do attempt to minimize moves; but there has to be a policy to allow them or the city just gets the team for free.


I don't know about the other leagues in North America. With the NFL they charge a re-location fee for teams that want to move.. it is a cool $645 *million* US dollars. Yea that's right. six hundred and forty five MILLION dollars..

Please read..*Rams, Chargers to pay $645 million in NFL relocation fees*


----------



## Rover030

deleted


----------



## RobH

pesto said:


> These are not public charities, put there to perpetually lose money to provide a local service.


Yet many "franchises" act like them when it suits. It's two-faced corporate socialism aligned with an unhealthy dose of blackmail. They're expecting the major risk to lie with taxpayers - playing off a sense of civic and sporting pride when they first turn up, but when it's _convenient_ they tell everyone what they in fact have is a business that owes nobody - not the fans who've invested in it, not the city - anything.

It seems to me either you're a business in which case you pay for your stadium and go where you like if it really is untenable to stay where you are, or you accept huge public subsidy, in which case yes, you do owe much, much more to the public than a traditional business would.

Whilst I agree largely with Rover, the emotional argument about whether clubs should move _at all_ seems to be based on cultural differences so I won't wade into that one. But the way American "franchises" behave when they expect (not too strong a word in most cases) to receive huge public handouts seems rotten to the core.


----------



## Calvin W

Maybe more cities need to start saying no to these types of ass hats.

A few more San Diego's and Calgary's (NHL) and teams might start realizing, put up or shut up.....


----------



## bd popeye

FC Cincinnati looking for a site for their own stadium.


----------



## pesto

RobH said:


> Yet many "franchises" act like them when it suits. It's two-faced corporate socialism aligned with an unhealthy dose of blackmail. They're expecting the major risk to lie with taxpayers - playing off a sense of civic and sporting pride when they first turn up, but when it's _convenient_ they tell everyone what they in fact have is a business that owes nobody - not the fans who've invested in it, not the city - anything.
> 
> It seems to me either you're a business in which case you pay for your stadium and go where you like if it really is untenable to stay where you are, or you accept huge public subsidy, in which case yes, you do owe much, much more to the public than a traditional business would.
> 
> Whilst I agree largely with Rover, the emotional argument about whether clubs should move _at all_ seems to be based on cultural differences so I won't wade into that one. But the way American "franchises" behave when they expect (not too strong a word in most cases) to receive huge public handouts seems rotten to the core.


Several comments here since I found some of what you said is a bit confusing.

Having businesses move to your city or country is a good thing. Governments pay them to do it. I have negotiated payments, tax waivers, free training, etc., from the UK, France and Belgium and many others. Ireland, Holland and the Swiss cantons make an industry of it, with published rates of benefits for a given investment. Thousands of them are out there adding to the wealth and prestige of the local town.

US cities reap windfalls from sports teams. In particular, having an NFL team is a mark of being a major city among the mid-sized cities of the midwest and southeast. It's something that they brag about and gives them name recognition on media. Teams are not stealing; the city is on its knees begging the team to take benefits or threatening them with litigation or eminent domain if they try to leave. It's like losing a golden egg factory.

No one has to pay and many don't. But those with no national brands are going to have to keep on paying until such time as their brand becomes valuable. Otherwise THEY are stealing from the NFL, NBA or whoever.

There is somehow the idea that teams are abandoning cities that won't pay ransom. Generally not the case: almost always the city has stopped maintaining or shown no interest in upgrading a stadium; or the teams was losing money or way below average in revenues. All of these were the case in all the recent NFL moves and many others.


----------



## pesto

Calvin W said:


> Maybe more cities need to start saying no to these types of ass hats.
> 
> A few more San Diego's and Calgary's (NHL) and teams might start realizing, put up or shut up.....


For smaller cities having a team is an expense well worth paying. Austin/San Antonio, Sacramento and others are eager to show they have arrived and if teams are failing in other cities, they will be happy to take them.

Likewise, SD and Oakland made right decisions since their economies and brands are secure and the city has no responsibility for supporting the fans' personal pastimes.


----------



## ben77

bd popeye said:


> FC Cincinnati looking for a site for their own stadium.


Funny, just watched this article and the stadium looks like a British ground.. Don't know what the problem is..


----------



## bd popeye

ben77 said:


> Funny, just watched this article and the stadium looks like a British ground.. Don't know what the problem is..


Nippert Stadium in Cincinnati OH does not belong to FC Cincinnati. It belongs to the University of Cincinnati. Therein is the issue. The MLS prefers teams to own their own stadiums. FC Cincinnati wants to join the MLS as an expansion team in order to do so they need a soccer specific stadium(SSS). Nippert Stadium was built for American Football in 1915. Nippert Stadium has been remodeled several times.

*Nippert Stadium...| wiki*

Here at SSC we have a thread about Nippert Stadium;

*Nippert Stadium ...| SSC*


----------



## gazzaa2

If a franchise is failing then give them x amount of time to turn it around or they're kicked out of MLS (i.e. Chivas). Then they can be replaced by someone else. It's then up to that club if they want to continue in NASL or wherever after leaving MLS, sort themselves out and try and get back. There's no need to uproot a club to a different town.

That can be the form of promotion/relegation but done more off the pitch than on it (a club being run properly will usually get it right on the pitch). Basically if the club consistently isn't being run properly and is failing then they run the risk of being replaced in MLS by another club. 

You don't need to relegate a club for a bad season on the pitch. in that case LA Galaxy would be relegated now when the league are banking on the LA derby next season, LA is a key market and Galaxy a key draw.


----------



## Guest

gazzaa2 said:


> If a franchise is failing then give them x amount of time to turn it around or they're kicked out of MLS (i.e. Chivas). Then they can be replaced by someone else. It's then up to that club if they want to continue in NASL or wherever after leaving MLS, sort themselves out and try and get back. There's no need to uproot a club to a different town.
> 
> That can be the form of promotion/relegation but done more off the pitch than on it (a club being run properly will usually get it right on the pitch). Basically if the club consistently isn't being run properly and is failing then they run the risk of being replaced in MLS by another club.
> 
> You don't need to relegate a club for a bad season on the pitch. in that case LA Galaxy would be relegated now when the league are banking on the LA derby next season, LA is a key market and Galaxy a key draw.


Wouldn't know where to begin with this, but there isn't a single sentence in there that touches base with reality.


----------



## twk

pesto said:


> For smaller cities having a team is an expense well worth paying. Austin/San Antonio, Sacramento and others are eager to show they have arrived and if teams are failing in other cities, they will be happy to take them.
> 
> Likewise, SD and Oakland made right decisions since their economies and brands are secure and the city has no responsibility for supporting the fans' personal pastimes.


Trying to stay on topic (stadiums), I have a hard time seeing Austin building a venue for an MLS team. UT needs to build a new basketball arena (their current one is Austin's primary concert venue, but is giving way for construction of a medical school next to a hospital), and has been trying to interest the City of Austin in working together to build a new arena, without much luck. Maybe one of the suburbs could be persuaded, but I see that working about as well as the venue in Frisco has for FC Dallas. UT also is unlikely to help, as they basically consider themselves Austin's team, and don't want the competition.

San Antonio still sort of harbors NFL aspirations, so I don't see them building something that wouldn't help them in that regard.


----------



## bd popeye

twk said:


> San Antonio still sort of harbors NFL aspirations, so I don't see them building something that wouldn't help them in that regard.


San Antonio has a SSS, Toyota Field, that seats 8000. I'm no architect but it appears this stadium can be be easily expanded to 18,000 seats according to the link below.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Field



Toyota Field NOW^^



Toyota Field future^^??


----------



## JJG

twk said:


> San Antonio still sort of harbors NFL aspirations, so I don't see them building something that wouldn't help them in that regard.


As already pointed out, they already have a SSS ready to go and expand when needed. 

The NFL aspirations (which are possible but questionable seeing how it's still Cowboy country) mean nothing in relation to this.


----------



## pesto

5portsF4n said:


> Wouldn't know where to begin with this, but there isn't a single sentence in there that touches base with reality.


Yes. That's why I didn't bother commenting. Of course, there are many things you COULD do but if they are way out of line with current legal and financial arrangements and don't assist in obtaining your priority goals, they are not likely to get much action.


----------



## EarthMachOne

gazzaa2 said:


> If a franchise is failing then give them x amount of time to turn it around or they're kicked out of MLS (i.e. Chivas). Then they can be replaced by someone else. It's then up to that club if they want to continue in NASL or wherever after leaving MLS, sort themselves out and try and get back. There's no need to uproot a club to a different town.
> 
> That can be the form of promotion/relegation but done more off the pitch than on it (a club being run properly will usually get it right on the pitch). Basically if the club consistently isn't being run properly and is failing then they run the risk of being replaced in MLS by another club.
> 
> You don't need to relegate a club for a bad season on the pitch. in that case LA Galaxy would be relegated now when the league are banking on the LA derby next season, LA is a key market and Galaxy a key draw.



MLS (the League no the teams) owns all of the players in the league. All their contracts no matter what the team are owned by the league. Team owners are actually franchisees. Clubs cannot be relegated. Imagine that McDonald's is MLS and Burger King is USL and the employees of each individual McDonalds and Burger King are on the payroll of the corporate office and not the individual restaurant owners (franchisees). You cannot go to a franchisee owner of a McDonald's and tell them that tomorrow they will open their doors as a Burger King. On top of that no millionaire/billionaire in their right mind would invest hundreds of millions or BILLIONS on an MLS franchise knowing it could be relegated next year. Relegation will NEVER EVER HAPPEN in the USA! hno:hno:hno:hno:hno:

Hockey, Basketball and Baseball fans never argue for this. Imagine the Red Wings last year being Relegated to AHL and their AHL affiliate club, which won the league, was given their spot in the NHL. Who is going to tune in on 
TV to watch The Grand Rapids Griffins?


----------



## bd popeye

^^Greatest post on relegation & promotion in North America in the history of this thread.:applause:


----------



## pesto

bd popeye said:


> ^^Greatest post on relegation & promotion in North America in the history of this thread.:applause:


Yes. But I suspect it won't even slow down the rabid relegation fans. 

It seems to be in the blood of the Europeans, like something that comes out of the middle ages and is viewed as an immutable truth about the world: you can have your team relegated and its privileges removed but it can never leave this land on which it has resided since time immemorial.


----------



## bd popeye

^^^Second Greatest post on relegation & promotion in North America in the history of this thread!!:applause:


----------



## RobH

EarthMachOne said:


> On top of that no millionaire/billionaire in their right mind would invest hundreds of millions or BILLIONS on an MLS franchise knowing it could be relegated next year.


Investment in football clubs in the rest of the world disproves this fairly conclusively.



pesto said:


> you can have your team relegated and its privileges removed but it can never leave this land on which it has resided since time immemorial.


If the choice is between playing in a lower league with the chance of being promoted again, or having your team permanently removed it's actually a bit of a no-brainer.


----------



## Rover030

pesto said:


> Yes. But I suspect it won't even slow down the rabid relegation fans.
> 
> It seems to be in the blood of the Europeans, like something that comes out of the middle ages and is viewed as an immutable truth about the world: you can have your team relegated and its privileges removed but it can never leave this land on which it has resided since time immemorial.


Likewise it seems to be in the blood of the Americans, like something that comes out of 1776 and is viewed as an immutable truth around the country: everything needs to be a for-profit business and you have to protect those poor billionaires from losing a small part of their fortune at the expense of their fans.

By the way: a club represents its city/region. That's the way it has always been. It's very logical that it cannot be removed from a city/region, because then it would cease to be the same club. See MK Dons which were stripped of all of Wimbledons achievements.


----------



## pesto

RobH said:


> Investment in football clubs in the rest of the world disproves this fairly conclusively.
> 
> If the choice is between playing in a lower league with the chance of being promoted again, or having your team permanently removed it's actually a bit of a no-brainer.


No! 

The point in buying businesses is to find one that is underperforming given its unique brands, location, personnel or whatever; determine what it costs to buy them and fix them; and then make an offer and get to work. 

In sports, you are paying purchase price plus a lot more to put them into a position where they can outperform others. If you do this successfully you make yourself a lot richer and in the process relegation-proof (or the US equivalent, you remain a perennial contender for the play-offs, get plenty of media coverage, etc.). 

Europe does not have relegation for the top sides. In their worst year RM or Barca are not even thinking about relegation. Same for several powers in every league. They are in a different league from everyone else; one that is more concerned with how they do against the other super-powers than about relegation. That is because their ownership, foreign or domestic, has put a lot of money into them.

MLS will probably try to get to that position but has to figure out how to make sure the top teams get more exposure and revenues than the bottom-feeders, who otherwise can do nothing and still make handsome profits.


----------



## pesto

Rover030 said:


> Likewise it seems to be in the blood of the Americans, like something that comes out of 1776 and is viewed as an immutable truth around the country: everything needs to be a for-profit business and you have to protect those poor billionaires from losing a small part of their fortune at the expense of their fans.
> 
> By the way: a club represents its city/region. That's the way it has always been. It's very logical that it cannot be removed from a city/region, because then it would cease to be the same club. See MK Dons which were stripped of all of Wimbledons achievements.


This is very forced and absurdly inaccurate. The US has teams that have been in their locations for a century or more and would never consider moving. Some owners have lost hundreds of millions and many teams have folded or moved to other cities to try to start over or just disappeared in bankruptcy.

The alternative is to have franchises is cities like Rochester, Ft. Wayne, Syracuse and leave LA and SF vacant. How likely is it that they would be selling 56k seats, for EACH game, at an average of $3300 the way the Dodgers are at the World Series? It would make a lot more sense for them to start a new team in a minor league and compete against other teams with similar funding and fan bases. Which is what they do.


----------



## pesto

Rover030 said:


> Likewise it seems to be in the blood of the Americans, like something that comes out of 1776 and is viewed as an immutable truth around the country: everything needs to be a for-profit business and you have to protect those poor billionaires from losing a small part of their fortune at the expense of their fans.
> 
> By the way: a club represents its city/region. That's *the way it has always been*. It's *very logical *that it *cannot be removed* from a city/region, because then it would *cease to be the same club*. See MK Dons which were stripped of all of Wimbledons achievements.


Btw, this is just creepy. It's like my wife becomes another person if she divorces me and my new wife takes on all her possession, legal rights, etc.

And worse, you think it's logical.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Chevy114 said:


> Now that Detroit is having stadium issues, here is what I think the expansion rankings should look like? How close am I?
> 
> 1.	Cincinnati
> 2.	Nashville
> 3.	Sacramento
> 4.	Tampa
> 5.	San Antonio
> 6.	St. Louis
> 7.	Phoenix
> 8.	Indianapolis
> 9.	Detroit
> 10.	San Diego
> 11.	Charlotte
> 12.	Raleigh


Charlotte and San Diego are essentially off the table for this round, and Indianapolis and Saint Louis would need someone to show funds for a venue in order for them to warrant serious consideration. With the Crew's move to Austin regrettably appearing likely the appeal for San Antonio just went down, while Phoenix has seemingly been doing everything right for the past 16 months.

Meanwhile Detroit's stadium issues were essentially solved with the Lion's owner opting in with use of Ford Field. It's not ideal to be in another NFL venue but it's in a great location, is weather-proof, is in a big market, and will allow the team to maximize local revenues. 

If I had to guess:

Sacramento
Cincinatti
Phoenix
Detroit


----------



## Chevy114

Shocked I thought Nashville was looking good, but you always seem to have a better read

Great list though, no real complaints.


----------



## Franchise646

GunnerJacket said:


> Charlotte and San Diego are essentially off the table for this round, and Indianapolis and Saint Louis would need someone to show funds for a venue in order for them to warrant serious consideration. With the Crew's move to Austin regrettably appearing likely the appeal for San Antonio just went down, while Phoenix has seemingly been doing everything right for the past 16 months.
> 
> Meanwhile Detroit's stadium issues were essentially solved with the Lion's owner opting in with use of Ford Field. It's not ideal to be in another NFL venue but it's in a great location, is weather-proof, is in a big market, and will allow the team to maximize local revenues.
> 
> If I had to guess:
> 
> Sacramento
> Cincinatti
> Phoenix
> Detroit


If I had to guess it's 25.Sacramento 26.Nashville 27.Phoenix 28. Cincinnati


----------



## GunnerJacket

Nashville is much better than I'd have surmised but I think MLS is planning to name just 2 this off-season and then let everyone else repackage their bid and see what happens. 

Bottom line, everything after Sacramento has some issues. Cincy still has stadium concerns but if they've a proven support at near 20k average I'm confident that can be resolved. Beyond that MLS will want something that resonates with national broadcast partners and stakeholders while feeling each team can be secure financially due to local support. PHX has shown a good developing base of support and has a practical stadium plan, plus they supply another western team to help balance the conferences. Any of Detroit, Indy and Nashville could help MLS in populous areas where they're trying to foster new/more rivalries, so it's really a matter of which ownership they feel will best produce.


----------



## aquamaroon

GunnerJacket said:


> Any of Detroit, Indy and Nashville could help MLS in populous areas where they're trying to foster new/more rivalries, so it's really a matter of which ownership they feel will best produce.


I think the Crew relocation out of Ohio will be a boon to both Indy and Detroit's chances, with Detroit given the edge considering ownership/market size.

Nashville though is really intriguing to me... I don't have any data or hard facts, I don't know the city particularly well... but to me Nashville just FEELS like it'd be a great MLS town. Kinda like Cincinnati but with a Southern Hipster vibe. Again all I have is my gut, but if stadium financing and ownership comes through I'd love to see them get an MLS franchise either this round or the next.


----------



## Juanpabloangel

What number is Miami in that list?


----------



## Franchise646

Juanpabloangel said:


> What number is Miami in that list?


They are number 24 they are in, just holding off on the announcement till the NIMBY lawsuits are all done.


----------



## JJG

GunnerJacket said:


> Charlotte and San Diego are essentially off the table for this round, and Indianapolis and Saint Louis would need someone to show funds for a venue in order for them to warrant serious consideration. *With the Crew's move to Austin regrettably appearing likely the appeal for San Antonio just went down*, while Phoenix has seemingly been doing everything right for the past 16 months.


Still doubt that. 

San Antonio is already 2 steps ahead and just don't see Austin becoming a major pro sports town.


----------



## spectre000

Construction update on MNUFC's Allianz Field. Demolition on the western end of the Midway Center (the last two photos) is set to begin tomorrow and should be substantially complete by Nov 22.

Untitled by spectre 000, on Flickr

Untitled by spectre 000, on Flickr

Untitled by spectre 000, on Flickr

Untitled by spectre 000, on Flickr

Untitled by spectre 000, on Flickr

Untitled by spectre 000, on Flickr

Untitled by spectre 000, on Flickr

Untitled by spectre 000, on Flickr

Untitled by spectre 000, on Flickr


----------



## Chevy114

JJG said:


> Still doubt that.
> 
> San Antonio is already 2 steps ahead and just don't see Austin becoming a major pro sports town.


Yeah, but maybe they are traded hispter town for hipster town. Neither really has to to compete with major sports so they have the town to themselves.


----------



## JJG

Chevy114 said:


> Yeah, but maybe they are traded hispter town for hipster town. Neither really has to to compete with major sports so they have the town to themselves.


Not in Austin...


----------



## EarthMachOne

Chevy114 said:


> Now that Detroit is having stadium issues, here is what I think the expansion rankings should look like? How close am I?
> 
> 1.	Cincinnati
> 2.	Nashville
> 3.	Sacramento
> 4.	Tampa
> 5.	San Antonio
> 6.	St. Louis
> 7.	Phoenix
> 8.	Indianapolis
> 9.	Detroit
> 10.	San Diego
> 11.	Charlotte
> 12.	Raleigh


detroit doesn't have stadium issues. It's the only bid that already has a stadium. The revised Detroit bid mimics the Atlanta United model. Detroit could be playing in MLS before Miami and before Minnesota plays a single match in their new Stadium. 

The only other two on that list that have stadiums tentatively lined up at this point are Nashville and Sacramento, assuming all their taxpayer money comes in. The rest of the list either failed to get the taxpayer funding they needed or flat out don't have enough money to both buy a franchise and build-expand a stadium. Of all the 12 ONLY the Detroit bid is fully funded without massive amounts of miracle money from their local governments.


----------



## eric the midget

FC Cincinnati has a stadium plan lined up and ready to go also. Construction on the Newport site could be started tomorrow if they wanted to do so. The ownership group is holding out a little longer just to see if they still can't line up a plan on the Cincinnati side of the river(at least that's what they're making it SEEM like they're doing). My guess is it will be Newport in the end.


----------



## JJG

EarthMachOne said:


> *The only other two on that list that have stadiums tentatively lined up at this point are Nashville and Sacramento, assuming all their taxpayer money comes in. The rest of the list either failed to get the taxpayer funding they needed or flat out don't have enough money to both buy a franchise and build-expand a stadium.* Of all the 12 ONLY the Detroit bid is fully funded without massive amounts of miracle money from their local governments.


Again, San Antonio has an "EZ 2 Expand" stadium and club ready to go...


----------



## Calvin W

EarthMachOne said:


> detroit doesn't have stadium issues. It's the only bid that already has a stadium. The revised Detroit bid mimics the Atlanta United model. Detroit could be playing in MLS before Miami and before Minnesota plays a single match in their new Stadium.
> 
> The only other two on that list that have stadiums tentatively lined up at this point are Nashville and Sacramento, assuming all their taxpayer money comes in. The rest of the list either failed to get the taxpayer funding they needed or flat out don't have enough money to both buy a franchise and build-expand a stadium. Of all the 12 ONLY the Detroit bid is fully funded without massive amounts of miracle money from their local governments.


Along those lines Miami, Minny, almost every city has a stadium ready. Plenty of other cities can front a NFL or College stadium as good as Detroit or better.


----------



## Guest

EarthMachOne said:


> *detroit doesn't have stadium issues.* It's the only bid that already has a stadium. The revised Detroit bid mimics the Atlanta United model. Detroit could be playing in MLS before Miami and before Minnesota plays a single match in their new Stadium.
> 
> Of all the 12 ONLY the Detroit bid is fully funded without massive amounts of miracle money from their local governments.


Lol wut? Detroit might have the biggest stadium issue of the lot. MLS has already released a statement to the effect of 'lol k'. I'm somewhat glad the Detroit bid is faltering because, based on its market size, it probably would have gotten in ahead of cities that have proved they can support a team. 

There are few questions marks about the viability of Sacramento and Cincinnati. There are major questions about every other bid.

And, just to be _that _guy, Atlanta has not disproved anything about MLS being played in NFL stadiums. Seattle is different, largely because of its history, and the fact that they've been doing it year on year since they joined MLS. Atlanta hasn't earned that, and as such shouldn't be used as an example for other cities. I remain skeptical about Atlanta's long-term viability to attract 40k+. Would be over the moon to be proven wrong, but this is an upstart team in a city that has a poor track record of pro soccer, playing in a cavernous stadium (despite its reduction capabilities), and that had a very good season on the pitch. If they settle into a core of 25-35k in the long run, and when wins are hard to come by, they'd have done very well. Which is just as well the stadium can be reconfigured to 32k mode. 

And Ford Field is a whole other shitshow not even worth contemplating...


----------



## GunnerJacket

Calvin W said:


> Along those lines Miami, Minny, almost every city has a stadium ready. Plenty of other cities can front a NFL or College stadium as good as Detroit or better.


Aye, but there are additional factors.

MLS' principal concern with the venues are that of revenue control and schedule control. Simply dropping a team into Soldier Field or the Dolphins stadium may visually appear fine but won't matter if the MLS team isn't recouping the money from the event to remain viable and can control it's schedule enough to provide certainty to fans and broadcast partners. This is why financially Atlanta, Seattle and the Revs can work for MLS in NFL venues. 

The next threshold concerns location and gameday trappings. In Atlanta the venue is hardwired for MLS in the sense that advertising and promotional materials equally tout United and the Falcons. As an MLS patron you never get the feeling you're trespassing into an exclusively NFL venue. Plus the soccer teams have their own locker rooms and entry to the pitch in line with conventional soccer stadiums. Yes, the angle of the lower tier has it's viewing issues but apart from the that the setting is designed for the MLS team. That it's also in an ideal location, accessible to transit, and has the roof option to ensure games can be played under inclement weather means it can be highly successful for an MLS franchise.

I'm not suggesting MBS is without its flaws or that every team should go that route, but if those other elements are in place to give the MLS team a chance to prosper financially and in responding to fans needs then it's a formula that can be replicated. Especially for areas where land is at a premium.


----------



## askar9992

Taylor Twellman: 'We cannot do soccer the American way' | ESPN


----------



## pesto

askar9992 said:


> Taylor Twellman: 'We cannot do soccer the American way' | ESPN


Mostly nonsense; too bad that former athletes are allowed access to mass media. Nice haircut though.

Arrogance has nothing to do with it; relegation has nothing to do with it; accountability has nothing to do with it except in the broadest sense.

Mostly it's just a lack of public interest. I know that no one here wants to hear it, but the US not making the WC was greeted by a shrug or laugh by most people. Members of my family were more intensely involved with Mexico, Costa Rica and the Philippines. 

Change will come slowly. Americans are not interested; most immigrants from the Caribbean and Asia are not very interested. What might get the interest going is a few properly funded MLS sides that can compete on the international level (league soccer, not FIFA). After that interest will grow for home-grown talent, who now would far rather be point guards or defensive backs or shortstops.


----------



## H.U.S.T.L.E.

pesto said:


> What might get the interest going is a few properly funded MLS sides that can compete on the international level (league soccer, not FIFA). After that interest will grow for home-grown talent, who now would far rather be point guards or defensive backs or shortstops.


As much as I enjoy MLS, I think there is an inherent ceiling to selling soccer on this side of the Atlantic. MLS teams can't compete in meaningful matches with the elite of world soccer.

The exception of the Club World Cup. Problem is, it's currently an 7-team tournament with a representative from each confederation plus a member from the host nation, so typically only one of the European giants is ever represented. To get there, an MLS club would have to win CONCACAF Champions League, which hasn't made much of a dent in the global soccer culture.

Now since the current FIFA president has suggested expanding the Club World Cup to replace the Confederations Cup, maybe that will make things more interesting. But until that day, or the large European clubs decide UEFA Champions League is less important than the American market (hint: it isn't for a looooooong time), the option of MLS clubs "competing on the international level" is very limited.


----------



## GunnerJacket

As of today every MLS team has a development academy, as do, I believe, several of the NASL and USL teams. However most of these are less than 10, or even 5, years old. Many are still operating with less than ideal facilities and coaching. Prior to this the only other organized academy effort was the Olympic Development Program with locations scattered across the nation. 

This means that we can talk all we want about the size of the country or the progress with MLS but the bottom line is that the US is still very much in its infancy when it comes to operating a top-rate player development system. So while France or Argentina may have 1,000's of players who've been practicing full time since their youth, the US may only just now be reaching that first 1,000. Remember, it wasn't until the current MLS media contract kicked in 3 years ago that the minimum first-team wages on offer in MLS were about $40,000. You won't get many takers and the best talent dedicating themselves to soccer at those levels. Sure, we have tons of youth playing under volunteer dads every year, and we have plenty of kids playing high school and collegiate ball, but those levels aren't designed to create the next Christian Pulisic. (It may happen but only as an exception.) So really we've only had the proper infrastructure for developing professional talent for about 7 years. 

The US needs time before we'll see the benefits of all the investment from the past 10 years. That sucks but it's reality.


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> As of today every MLS team has a development academy, as do, I believe, several of the NASL and USL teams. However most of these are less than 10, or even 5, years old. Many are still operating with less than ideal facilities and coaching. Prior to this the only other organized academy effort was the Olympic Development Program with locations scattered across the nation.
> 
> This means that we can talk all we want about the size of the country or the progress with MLS but the bottom line is that the US is still very much in its infancy when it comes to operating a top-rate player development system. So while France or Argentina may have 1,000's of players who've been practicing full time since their youth, the US may only just now be reaching that first 1,000. Remember, it wasn't until the current MLS media contract kicked in 3 years ago that the minimum first-team wages on offer in MLS were about $40,000. You won't get many takers and the best talent dedicating themselves to soccer at those levels. Sure, we have tons of youth playing under volunteer dads every year, and we have plenty of kids playing high school and collegiate ball, but those levels aren't designed to create the next Christian Pulisic. (It may happen but only as an exception.) So really we've only had the proper infrastructure for developing professional talent for about 7 years.
> 
> The US needs time before we'll see the benefits of all the investment from the past 10 years. That sucks but it's reality.


Agree generally with this and with HUSTLE. But I think that the possibility of competing with top league teams could be only 10 years out if MLS creates a system that rewards the teams that spend for the good of the league. 

I would guess the academies and home-grown talent is 20 years away minimum.


----------



## SJAnfield

H.U.S.T.L.E. said:


> As much as I enjoy MLS, I think there is an inherent ceiling to selling soccer on this side of the Atlantic. MLS teams can't compete in meaningful matches with the elite of world soccer.
> 
> 
> 
> The exception of the Club World Cup. Problem is, it's currently an 7-team tournament with a representative from each confederation plus a member from the host nation, so typically only one of the European giants is ever represented. To get there, an MLS club would have to win CONCACAF Champions League, which hasn't made much of a dent in the global soccer culture.
> 
> 
> 
> Now since the current FIFA president has suggested expanding the Club World Cup to replace the Confederations Cup, maybe that will make things more interesting. But until that day, or the large European clubs decide UEFA Champions League is less important than the American market (hint: it isn't for a looooooong time), the option of MLS clubs "competing on the international level" is very limited.




Let’s not forget the MLS is still a relative newcomer to both the US and global soccer. The league had been extremely careful on how to grow and solidify a foundation for the game in a country that has been slow to get on board the world-wide obsession with the beautiful game. The sport and league are in a good place to attract and capture future audiences, and as interest grows, money for top talent should follow. American football has cracks in the armor, baseball is becoming ever more regional and hockey is always going to be regional (outside of Canada). I personally see the MLS and NBA making potential major inroads in the next 20-25 years.


----------



## Guest

SJAnfield said:


> Let’s not forget the MLS is still a relative newcomer to both the US and global soccer. The league had been extremely careful on how to grow and solidify a foundation for the game in a country that has been slow to get on board the world-wide obsession with the beautiful game. The sport and league are in a good place to attract and capture future audiences, and as interest grows, money for top talent should follow. American football has cracks in the armor, baseball is becoming ever more regional and hockey is always going to be regional (outside of Canada). I personally see the MLS and NBA making potential major inroads in the next 20-25 years.


Agree to an extent. MLS' growth doesn't have to come at the expense of others. I suspect every pro league will experience relative growth. I just don't see the decline in any league taking place anytime soon. 

The 'cracks' in the armor of the NFL is a lazy assessment on par with the same people who question whether soccer in England is declining because Sky's ratings were down last season and fans being 'fed up' with the money in the game. There's no real basis in reality. 

The good news for MLS is that it will keep growing, regardless of what happens with the other leagues.


----------



## Guest

*Nashville Metro Council approves financing for $275M MLS stadium project*

http://www.tennessean.com/story/new...ancing-275-m-nashville-mls-stadium/835596001/



> In a major win for Nashville's Major League Soccer expansion hopes, the Metro Council on Tuesday voted overwhelmingly to approve Mayor Megan Barry's financing plan for a new $275 million MLS stadium on the city's fairgrounds.
> 
> The council voted 31 to 6 to sign off on a plan to issue $225 million in revenue bonds for the stadium project, giving Nashville's expansion bid a critical boost as it competes against 11 other cities for an MLS franchise.


----------



## SJAnfield

5portsF4n said:


> Agree to an extent. MLS' growth doesn't have to come at the expense of others. I suspect every pro league will experience relative growth. I just don't see the decline in any league taking place anytime soon.
> 
> 
> 
> The 'cracks' in the armor of the NFL is a lazy assessment on par with the same people who question whether soccer in England is declining because Sky's ratings were down last season and fans being 'fed up' with the money in the game. There's no real basis in reality.
> 
> 
> 
> The good news for MLS is that it will keep growing, regardless of what happens with the other leagues.




To clarify my position on the NFL, I don’t believe it’s just the lowered ratings. The sport has taken a beating over its safety issues, and there are less children joining at the youth levels, with parents taking greater precautions. Will the NFL drop from its status as king? Probably not. Not anytime soon anyway, but there will be opportunity for sporting interests to be directed elsewhere. 

Living in the Sacramento region, I have a great number of friends and acquaintances whom I’ve come to know who did not grow up liking soccer, and even made disparaging remarks about the game. When the Republic came to town, many of these same friends became interested in the spectacle, and then totally hooked. Working with youth and families in the region, many of the parents had no interest in the sport, but began to pay attention when their kids played rec league, and became rather interested and even invested in the pro game. 

With the MLS and USL developing the framework and building brand recognition, the youth and locals now have an outlet to focus attention on the sport which they can take some ownership in. When I was young, I had no teams I could call my own, or aspire towards, so I had to direct my attention and affection to the traditional international clubs, because I loved the sport. For those who were casual fans or onlookers, there was nothing to draw them in. The World Cup happened and then the sport ceased to be for another four years. For the older population, they still have to be sold in order to turn their attention to the sport, but the younger generations have a real league with familiar identities and regional recognition. The sport will grow in the long term, and maybe be a power when American business interests see the shift happen.


----------



## Guest

Another attempt at predicting the future alignment of conferences:

Toronto
NYCFC
Chicago
Atlanta
NYRB
New England
Philadelphia
Montreal
Orlando City
DC United
*Miami 24
Nashville 25
Cincinnati 27
Detroit 28
*
Portland
Seattle
Vancouver
Houston
Sporting KC
San Jose
FC Dallas
Real Salt Lake
Minnesota
Colorado 
LA Galaxy
*Austin* move from Columbus
*LAFC 23
Sacramento 26*

Then, assuming the league goes to 30 or 32, the obvious candidates:

West: San Diego 29, Phoenix
East: St Louis 30 + Tampa or Charlotte


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## EarthMachOne

5portsF4n said:


> Another attempt at predicting the future alignment of conferences:
> 
> Toronto
> NYCFC
> Chicago
> Atlanta
> NYRB
> New England
> Philadelphia
> Montreal
> Orlando City
> DC United
> *Miami 24
> Nashville 25
> Cincinnati 27
> Detroit 28
> *
> Portland
> Seattle
> Vancouver
> Houston
> Sporting KC
> San Jose
> FC Dallas
> Real Salt Lake
> Minnesota
> Colorado
> LA Galaxy
> *Austin* move from Columbus
> *LAFC 23
> Sacramento 26*
> 
> Then, assuming the league goes to 30 or 32, the obvious candidates:
> 
> West: San Diego 29, Phoenix
> East: St Louis 30 + Tampa or Charlotte


Would make for a nice even league. But I think Detroit and Sacramento will be #25 & #26. They are the two farthest along for stadiums. Cinci still doesn't have a Stadium Solution. 

I also think Columbus is history.


----------



## eric the midget

EarthMachOne said:


> Would make for a nice even league. But I think Detroit and Sacramento will be #25 & #26. They are the two farthest along for stadiums. Cinci still doesn't have a Stadium Solution.
> 
> I also think Columbus is history.


Again, Cincinnati does in fact have a stadium solution. More of a solution than Detroit, in fact.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sp...d-solidify-our-stadium-partnership/726621001/



> FC Cincinnati has in place a memorandum of understanding for the proposed stadium site in Newport, Kentucky, which, despite some fan objections to having the team on that side of the river, is just hundreds of yards away from Cincinnati.
> 
> *Berding has called the Newport site "shovel ready."*


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...incinnatis-major-league-soccer-bid/759075001/



> Cincinnati Mayor John Cranley this week said the shovel-ready Northern Kentucky riverfront site will be included in the region's bid to land Amazon's new headquarters.





> FC Cincinnati has an official agreement with Newport site developer Corporex that gives the soccer club control of the site if it decides that's where it wants the stadium.


----------



## EarthMachOne

5portsF4n said:


> Lol wut? Detroit might have the biggest stadium issue of the lot. MLS has already released a statement to the effect of 'lol k'. I'm somewhat glad the Detroit bid is faltering because, based on its market size, it probably would have gotten in ahead of cities that have proved they can support a team.
> 
> There are few questions marks about the viability of Sacramento and Cincinnati. There are major questions about every other bid.
> 
> And, just to be _that _guy, Atlanta has not disproved anything about MLS being played in NFL stadiums. Seattle is different, largely because of its history, and the fact that they've been doing it year on year since they joined MLS. Atlanta hasn't earned that, and as such shouldn't be used as an example for other cities. I remain skeptical about Atlanta's long-term viability to attract 40k+. Would be over the moon to be proven wrong, but this is an upstart team in a city that has a poor track record of pro soccer, playing in a cavernous stadium (despite its reduction capabilities), and that had a very good season on the pitch. If they settle into a core of 25-35k in the long run, and when wins are hard to come by, they'd have done very well. Which is just as well the stadium can be reconfigured to 32k mode.
> 
> And Ford Field is a whole other shitshow not even worth contemplating...




No. None of the other teams could be playing in NFL stadiums because no other team has submitted a bid with an NFL owner. The Fords will become owners of both the Lions and MCSC. The issue with "renting" an NFL stadium or a college stadium the way that Seattle or Cinci do is that the team gets no share of the stadium revenue. THAT is the main issue for MLS. When MLS wants a specific market or billionaire involved (NYC, ATL, etc) they will bend. 

I cannot image Don Garber walking into a room with three billionaires and telling them there will never be an MLS team in Detroit because they aren't building a small outdoor bare bones concrete bunker that's soccer specific. No way is Garber going to turn down it's biggest missing market and richest potential club ownership group because Ford/Gilbert/Gores want to mimic Atlanta and not Minnesota United. They will get the same Billionaire press that Arthur Blank gave them in Atlanta.

Anybody who thinks that the Detroit billionaires weren't on the phone with Garber prior to all this becoming public is naive. 

Also, Ford Field is not a "shit show." The Lions are a shit show. They would be a shit show no matter what stadium they played in. But it's a great stadium, and the Fords are committed to keeping it upgraded. By the the time they field an MLS team they'll probably have spent more money on recent upgrades to Ford Field than Minnesota will spend in total on it's new stadium.


----------



## EarthMachOne

eric the midget said:


> Again, Cincinnati does in fact have a stadium solution. More of a solution than Detroit, in fact.
> 
> https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sp...d-solidify-our-stadium-partnership/726621001/
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...incinnatis-major-league-soccer-bid/759075001/




They do not have a "shovel ready" plan. Actual construction plans that would be used to build a stadium don't yet exist. They will not exist until the papers are signed for the site. They are still demanding $100 million in public money!!!! What they have is a Kentucky FC proposal with nice drawings. Just like every other bid had. It's as shovel ready as St Louis was a year ago


----------



## eric the midget

Maybe they exist, maybe they don't. That's not the most important thing at this point. The most important thing is that they have the land, and it's ready to go at any moment.


----------



## EarthMachOne

I do believe that Cinci will make it into MLS. Sooner or later one of the Municipalities will cave in and hand them a bucket of taxpayer money. But until then it can be easily derailed. Just look at Sacramento, St Louis... or even Miami, which has struggled for years with their stadium plan/location. There are very few cities today that will tolerate spending so much on major league sports stadiums. 

Also, you know that when they move to Kentucky every visiting supporters group is going to mock them by calling them KFC.


----------



## EarthMachOne

eric the midget said:


> Maybe they exist, maybe they don't. That's not the most important thing at this point. The most important thing is that they have the land, and it's ready to go at any moment.


If they don't have $100,000,000 they don't have anything. 

Sacramento, St Louis, etc. had the land too! What they have is an owner who can't afford to build their own stadium


----------



## eric the midget

FC Cincinnati's ownership is not short on money. That I can assure you. 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sp...stadium-deal-can-model-partnership/706918001/



> Berding, like all speakers during the meeting, was allotted two minutes to make an address. He used his time to reiterate FC Cincinnati's commitment to putting down $250 million in private money to cover the cost of entrance to MLS and half of the projected stadium costs.


----------



## matthemod

Excuse my ignorance, but if a club receives public money to build a stadium, which authority is the one giving that money?

Is it the State? The County? The City? Furthermore...for a situation like above with Cincy thinking of setting up shop in Kentucky, would that mean KY taxpayers footing the bill?


----------



## pesto

5portsF4n said:


> Agree to an extent. MLS' growth doesn't have to come at the expense of others. I suspect every pro league will experience relative growth. I just don't see the decline in any league taking place anytime soon.
> 
> The 'cracks' in the armor of the NFL is a lazy assessment on par with the same people who question whether soccer in England is declining because Sky's ratings were down last season and fans being 'fed up' with the money in the game. There's no real basis in reality.
> 
> The good news for MLS is that it will keep growing, regardless of what happens with the other leagues.


Agree with this completely (except you mean that various sports will experience absolute growth; it's impossible for everyone to experience relative growth).

There are way to many new people with disposable income in the world for sports to be a bad investment if you know what you are doing.


----------



## pesto

matthemod said:


> Excuse my ignorance, but if a club receives public money to build a stadium, which authority is the one giving that money?
> 
> Is it the State? The County? The City? Furthermore...for a situation like above with Cincy thinking of setting up shop in Kentucky, would that mean KY taxpayers footing the bill?


This varies by proposal and often changes midstream (county or regional authority drops out, state kicks in some more, mixed-use bonds are issued, numbers get reworked to screw over the taxpayers in some more obscure manner). It is generally an ugly show. And rental terms and revenue sharing are also moved around to hide who is making what.


----------



## cinquante

SJAnfield said:


> LetÂ’s not forget the MLS is still a relative newcomer to both the US and global soccer. The league had been extremely careful on how to grow and solidify a foundation for the game in a country that has been slow to get on board the world-wide obsession with the beautiful game. The sport and league are in a good place to attract and capture future audiences, and as interest grows, money for top talent should follow. American football has cracks in the armor, baseball is becoming ever more regional and hockey is always going to be regional (outside of Canada). I personally see the MLS and NBA making potential major inroads in the next 20-25 years.


side comment ...
I don't think Baseball is becoming a regional sport. The Japanese league had almost the same attendance per game as MLB (29k aprox). Plus summer league efforts in Korea and MÃ©xico, winter leagues in Latin America, and a lot of growth on some European countries and countries such as Australia, Brazil, South Africa or Argentina. Mostly to their World Cup like tournament, the WBC.

As for MLS, and American soccer pro-structure. I do think such quantity of first tier teams can not be good for a Soccer Pro-League, A few years ago the Argentinian first division grew from 20 to 30 teams. And it became a blow for the spectacle and game quality. 
I know North America is not the same as Argentina, but to some extent it is a "relatable" example.
What I think MLS should be considering right now is to stop expansion at 24 teams, develop a 2nd tier Division along with NASL and USL teams with the same quantity of organizations, this is where all the new bids must enter from now on, it will be cheaper bids for them to participate, and will "democratize" the access to a pro team, then start working to add PRO-REL, not right after the consolidation of the 2nd division. But in a 5 year period, this will allow investors to settle and newcomers to build their fanbase.
PRO-REL is a must when you already have that amount of participation.

The lower tiers construct the base of the development of the sport. It is not strange that European football still rules above other latitudes with larger amounts of cash, but non-existent consistency or clarity in their lower structures.


----------



## pesto

cinquante said:


> side comment ...
> I don't think Baseball is becoming a regional sport. The Japanese league had almost the same attendance per game as MLB (29k aprox). Plus summer league efforts in Korea and MÃ©xico, winter leagues in Latin America, and a lot of growth on some European countries and countries such as Australia, Brazil, South Africa or Argentina. Mostly to their World Cup like tournament, the WBC.
> 
> As for MLS, and American soccer pro-structure. I do think such quantity of first tier teams can not be good for a Soccer Pro-League, A few years ago the Argentinian first division grew from 20 to 30 teams. And it became a blow for the spectacle and game quality.
> I know North America is not the same as Argentina, but to some extent it is a "relatable" example.
> What I think MLS should be considering right now is to stop expansion at 24 teams, develop a 2nd tier Division along with NASL and USL teams with the same quantity of organizations, this is where all the new bids must enter from now on, it will be cheaper bids for them to participate, and will "democratize" the access to a pro team, then start working to add PRO-REL, not right after the consolidation of the 2nd division. But in a 5 year period, this will allow investors to settle and newcomers to build their fanbase.
> PRO-REL is a must when you already have that amount of participation.
> 
> The lower tiers construct the base of the development of the sport. It is not strange that European football still rules above other latitudes with larger amounts of cash, but non-existent consistency or clarity in their lower structures.


Agree with everything up to the relegation discussion. Sports generally are doing well all over the world and MLS needs new members like a hole in the head.

Relegation does not exist for the major international sides; they in effect operate in another league, worrying only about championships and competition against other world powers. RM and Barca do not talk about relegation; that’s for the bottom 10 sides to worry about. They worry about each other, MU, Chelsea, etc.

MLS needs to BUILD world class sides, not relegate them to a lower level while they are building the quality of their players. Not many investors are going to put 500M into contracts, stadiums and PR if they might get relegated in the early years of their building program. MLS needs to reward people who spend like that.


----------



## Rev Stickleback

cinquante said:


> The lower tiers construct the base of the development of the sport. It is not strange that European football still rules above other latitudes with larger amounts of cash, but non-existent consistency or clarity in their lower structures.


Pro/rel discussions can go on forever, but pro/rel exists where it does because historically there were too many viable clubs to fit into one division (if run on a single table basis). 

I can't think of anywhere where pro/rel was introduced to stimulate the creation of new clubs at a lower tier.

When people in the USA talk of pro/rel they only ever apply it to MLS. The same thinking never gets applied to any other sports.


----------



## EarthMachOne

Rev Stickleback said:


> When people in the USA talk of pro/rel they only ever apply it to MLS. The same thinking never gets applied to any other sports.




The US league model works in the USA. Hockey, Baseball, Basketball fans NEVER EVER even talk about pro/rel. There's no reason for it. And the minor leagues are structured as affiliates of the Major League teams. 

If Hockey was in a Pro/Rel system the Grand Rapids Griffins this year would have replaced The Detroit Red Wings in the NHL. The Griffins are Detroit's AHL franchise! that would make no sense to Hockey fans. The people who support local AHL teams typically also support the NHL parent team. I have season tickets for the Griffins. I often wear a Red Wings sweater to the games. Likewise, when Rockford plays in Grand Rapids, there's an influx of visiting Blackhawks fans. It works for US sports. People understand it and accept it.

MLS & USL will soon wind up in a similar system. A portion of the USL clubs are already D2 development sides for MLS clubs. I suspect that once MLS looks to be "full" we'll see more USL 2 or 3 clubs sign affiliate agreements with MLS. But we don't even have a D3 league yet. This is all going to take decades to settle out


----------



## SJAnfield

Promotion/relegation isn’t happening in the US/MLS. The owners have put too much investment, and many have paid high expansion fees. They aren’t going to put their investments on the line to copy the traditional models. Americans are used to and comfortable with the farm system, and that’s the route the sport will follow.


----------



## pesto

SJAnfield said:


> Promotion/relegation isn’t happening in the US/MLS. The owners have put too much investment, and many have paid high expansion fees. They aren’t going to put their investments on the line to copy the traditional models. Americans are used to and comfortable with the farm system, and that’s the route the sport will follow.


Agree completely.

But this means that some other mechanism must be found to do what relegation accomplishes, that is, weeding out the cheap or incompetent and encouraging the hard chargers who build brands and make everyone richer.

Interesting to see how well MLS can drive this process.


----------



## KingmanIII

EarthMachOne said:


> ....And the minor leagues are structured as affiliates of the Major League teams.
> 
> If Hockey was in a Pro/Rel system the Grand Rapids Griffins this year would have replaced The Detroit Red Wings in the NHL. The Griffins are Detroit's AHL franchise!


The Griffins would operate as an independent entity, with their own academy, not as a vassal club of the Wings.



> that would make no sense to Hockey fans. The people who support local AHL teams typically also support the NHL parent team. I have season tickets for the Griffins. I often wear a Red Wings sweater to the games. Likewise, when Rockford plays in Grand Rapids, there's an influx of visiting Blackhawks fans. It works for US sports. People understand it and accept it.


Because they've been conditioned to do so.


----------



## Nacre

pesto said:


> But this means that some other mechanism must be found to do what relegation accomplishes, that is, weeding out the cheap or incompetent and encouraging the hard chargers who build brands and make everyone richer.


Commerce already does this naturally. Successful franchises in the closed league model tend to have much higher attendance, merchandise sales and television rights sales. Despite having a huge incentive to intentionally lose thanks to the draft system, the Philadelphia 76'ers are the only NBA team to intentionally accept poor performance.

Promotion and relegation exists to accommodate an excess of clubs in competition. US soccer does not have that problem.


----------



## Franchise646

SJAnfield said:


> Promotion/relegation isn’t happening in the US/MLS. The owners have put too much investment, and many have paid high expansion fees. They aren’t going to put their investments on the line to copy the traditional models. Americans are used to and comfortable with the farm system, and that’s the route the sport will follow.





pesto said:


> Agree completely.
> 
> But this means that some other mechanism must be found to do what relegation accomplishes, that is, weeding out the cheap or incompetent and encouraging the hard chargers who build brands and make everyone richer.
> 
> Interesting to see how well MLS can drive this process.



The other side of the farm system that people don't mention is that, that players do get sent, to the farm form the parent club which is for the demotion aka relegation.


----------



## pesto

Franchise646 said:


> The other side of the farm system that people don't mention is that, that players do get sent, to the farm form the parent club which is for the demotion aka relegation.


True, but that schools the player not the team owner. That's why it is common in every league.

To school the owner (in the absence of relegation) you have to penalize him through public criticism and eventually economically or by explusion.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Assessing MLS expansion candidates: Cities in the hunt and the long shots

http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-...didates-cities-in-the-hunt-and-the-long-shots


Cincinnati, Nashville make moves in busy week for MLS expansion

http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-...lle-make-moves-in-busy-week-for-mls-expansion


----------



## Franchise646

pesto said:


> True, but that schools the player not the team owner. That's why it is common in every league.
> 
> To school the owner (in the absence of relegation) you have to penalize him through public criticism and eventually economically or by explusion.


Idk i think losing your job to a kid along with losing part of your contract $$ (let's say 30%) would hurt a lot.


----------



## EarthMachOne

Ugh.

can we have a rule that pro/rel be left out of stadium threads?


----------



## pesto

Nacre said:


> Commerce already does this naturally. Successful franchises in the closed league model tend to have much higher attendance, merchandise sales and television rights sales. Despite having a huge incentive to intentionally lose thanks to the draft system, the Philadelphia 76'ers are the only NBA team to intentionally accept poor performance.
> 
> Promotion and relegation exists to accommodate an excess of clubs in competition. US soccer does not have that problem.


Not true. Commerce WOULD do that naturally in a free-market, but these are cartels. Some owners just enjoy their retirements while still making millions from profits generated by those spending big money and structuring lucrative deals. If they were just killing their own market no one would care; but with national media and profit sharing they are hurting everyone's profits and must be disciplined.


----------



## pesto

Franchise646 said:


> Idk i think losing your job to a kid along with losing part of your contract $$ (let's say 30%) would hurt a lot.


Yes, but that only affects the player. The owner can continue to run his franchise on the cheap, picking up the lower paid players, not advertising, having a rundown stadium, hiring poor management, etc. Leagues have rules limiting this kind of behavior but enforcement is difficult.

Once you make a decision that you want some franchises in smaller cities, you have to do something to keep them alive and at least somewhat competitive. Management that is happy being a big fish in a little pond and getting his 10M check every year are a problem that has to be dealt with somehow.


----------



## pesto

EarthMachOne said:


> Ugh.
> 
> can we have a rule that pro/rel be left out of stadium threads?


I think we actually have that rule but no one is paying attention. :lol:

I guess the simple-mindedness of relegation attracts some. But the method used by US sports leagues is much better at creating valuable franchises. They require relatively high levels of expenditure on salaries, promoting the league, stadium quality, etc., for their members. This is much more productive than simply letting the bottom end get weaker and weaker until even minor league teams are just as good. 

Of course, enforcing this can be difficult and no league has really solved this problem. That's what makes commissioners so valuable.


----------



## GunnerJacket

So I leave for a 3 day conference and this is what happens, eh?

Pro/rel talk ends here.


----------



## Pellshekk

eric the midget said:


>



Bit of a San Siro vibe going on in this image.


----------



## BoulderGrad

the days of the $20-$40mil MLS stadium are long over.


Audi Field (DC United): $185mil 
Banc of California Stadium: $350mil 
Allianz Field (Minn U): $200mil 
Orlando City Stadium: $155mil
Avaya Stadium (San Jose): $100mil
BBVA Compass Stadium (Houston): $95mil
Red Bull Arena: $200mil


----------



## pesto

BoulderGrad said:


> the days of the $20-$40mil MLS stadium are long over.
> 
> 
> Audi Field (DC United): $185mil
> Banc of California Stadium: $350mil
> Allianz Field (Minn U): $200mil
> Orlando City Stadium: $155mil
> Avaya Stadium (San Jose): $100mil
> BBVA Compass Stadium (Houston): $95mil
> Red Bull Arena: $200mil


Yes. This is evolving into a true MAJOR league. The low-spenders have to be encouraged to spend more on upgrading, PR, players or something so that they become a well-recognized brand which attract viewers attention.


----------



## KingmanIII

BoulderGrad said:


> the days of the $20-$40mil MLS stadium are long over.
> 
> 
> Audi Field (DC United): $185mil
> Banc of California Stadium: $350mil
> Allianz Field (Minn U): $200mil
> Orlando City Stadium: $155mil
> Avaya Stadium (San Jose): $100mil
> BBVA Compass Stadium (Houston): $95mil
> Red Bull Arena: $200mil


Sporting Park also cost $200mil


----------



## The Game Is Up

https://www.indystar.com/story/spor...shville-cincinnati-reportedly-lead/862387001/



> Indianapolis is no longer in the running for one of Major League Soccer's next two expansion teams, ESPN's Grant Wahl reports.
> 
> When the MLS owners meeting takes place on December 14, Wahl said, it'll be Sacramento, Nashville or Cincinnati that nab the two spots.


----------



## slipperydog

It'll be interesting. The league will probably do one East and one West, so Sacramento is in. Nashville seems to be more or less set and is a solid market, but the league may want to get another Ohio club with the Crew potentially leaving.


----------



## pesto

Sacramento and SJ representing the Bay Area. Solid, but nothing within 40 miles of SF. Seems like a great city brand wasted.


----------



## Chevy114

so sounds like top 3 are Sac., Nashville, and Cinn.

http://www.tbo.com/sports/soccer/report-tampa-bay-to-miss-out-on-mls-expansion-this-time/2344338


----------



## slipperydog

pesto said:


> Sacramento and SJ representing the Bay Area. Solid, but nothing within 40 miles of SF. Seems like a great city brand wasted.


If the Warriors learned anything, building in SF is a nightmare. Meanwhile, the local schleps in Sac-town are handing out free cash to any and all sports franchises. Hell, the A's should check into it and see what kind of handout they could get.


----------



## EarthMachOne

Cinci is still not certain. They need $70 million in public money to make it happen. The county is now telling them to use Paul Brown Stadium.

At least the cities at the top of the list show real potential for pro soccer. Whatever the next 4 teams are MLS will benefit.


----------



## eric the midget

Cincinnati is in a good position. They have multiple plans, with one ready to go.


----------



## pesto

slipperydog said:


> If the Warriors learned anything, building in SF is a nightmare. Meanwhile, the local schleps in Sac-town are handing out free cash to any and all sports franchises. Hell, the A's should check into it and see what kind of handout they could get.


Mostly agree; SF is a tough place to build. But the Warriors found it more than worth the efforts to move to SF. And the Giants managed to move to Santa Clara (1/4 mile from the SJ city limits) and KEEP the name San Francisco. Sounds like they recognized the cache of the name.

Sacramento as a brand is a non-starter. And if MLS is run by people who believe the league's future is characterized by running after local beer distributors handing out cash, the league is in deep trouble.


----------



## RMB2007

> Here is a ground-level peek at what will one day be the stunning new Minnesota United @mls stadium, Allianz Field


Vid in the link below:

https://twitter.com/grossman/status/931565735343771649


----------



## GunnerJacket

pesto said:


> Mostly agree; SF is a tough place to build. But the Warriors found it more than worth the efforts to move to SF. And the *Giants* managed to move to Santa Clara (1/4 mile from the SJ city limits) and KEEP the name San Francisco. Sounds like they recognized the cache of the name.


Methinks you meant the Niners.



> Sacramento as a brand is a non-starter. And if MLS is run by people who believe the league's future is characterized by running after local beer distributors handing out cash, the league is in deep trouble.


SF is champagne out of range for MLS' beer budget for now, regardless of brand appeal. Meanwhile Sacramento offers the league access to community that has embraced their team, has deep (enough) pockets committed to the team and enough unique cachet to match the league's other avant garde teams like Portland, Orlando and Salt Lake. Throw in the concept of a Nor Cal derby for regional appeal that should seep into SF and at the least it should work. Sometimes you win the baseball game through a volume of singles rather than the home run. But this is also likely why the league balked at granting SacTown 3 years ago, giving the team a chance to solidify their financial position while the league took stock of other options. 

Besides, after seeing what a shambles the SF Deltas proved this season as a business enterprise...

I think SRFC will be fine, and I do believe having the quartet of California teams in their disparate contextual settings will drive all of them forward. Will prove a good mix to balance against the Cascadian rivals.


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> Methinks you meant the Niners.
> 
> 
> SF is champagne out of range for MLS' beer budget for now, regardless of brand appeal. Meanwhile Sacramento offers the league access to community that has embraced their team, has deep (enough) pockets committed to the team and enough unique cachet to match the league's other avant garde teams like Portland, Orlando and Salt Lake. Throw in the concept of a Nor Cal derby for regional appeal that should seep into SF and at the least it should work. Sometimes you win the baseball game through a volume of singles rather than the home run. But this is also likely why the league balked at granting SacTown 3 years ago, giving the team a chance to solidify their financial position while the league took stock of other options.
> 
> Besides, after seeing what a shambles the SF Deltas proved this season as a business enterprise...
> 
> I think SRFC will be fine, and I do believe having the quartet of California teams in their disparate contextual settings will drive all of them forward. Will prove a good mix to balance against the Cascadian rivals.


Yes, I meant the Niners even though the Giants also were looking at SJ (and Florida) a while back.

Sorry, but that is a long set of unconvincing arguments. If SF isn't available, go to South SF or Burlingame or other adjacent city and use the name SF. It's not like the city owns the name. 

MLS shouldn't be working on finding rivals for LA and hoping their name draws fans from Roseville to Clarksburg. It should be focusing on building teams that get fans from Japan to Morocco. Sacramento is not a likely candidate.


----------



## GunnerJacket

pesto said:


> MLS shouldn't be working on finding rivals for LA and hoping their name draws fans from Roseville to Clarksburg. It should be focusing on building teams that get fans from Japan to Morocco. Sacramento is not a likely candidate.


I disagree. MLS isn't yet poised to compete against the biggest leagues in the world and by far the most important thing right now is to win over fans in the US. Attendance has been great but media revenues and earnings are still very meager. Until they've won more support domestically it won't do then much good trying to rely on the likes of Morocco.

To that end MLS needs viable local teams that can prosper until the next generation grows more attuned to the idea of a dependable domestic league. Sacramento may not be priority #1 when it comes to media markets but if the team can sustain itself while providing more opportunities for people to play and watch full-time pro ball then that's a positive. The league has other brands that can carry the role of marquee teams. More importantly, there are only so many owners/cities in play right now and SF isn't one of them. (Plus San Jose has MLS media "dibs" to SF for the time being.)

But that's just me.


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> I disagree. MLS isn't yet poised to compete against the biggest leagues in the world and by far the most important thing right now is to win over fans in the US. Attendance has been great but media revenues and earnings are still very meager. Until they've won more support domestically it won't do then much good trying to rely on the likes of Morocco.
> 
> To that end MLS needs viable local teams that can prosper until the next generation grows more attuned to the idea of a dependable domestic league. Sacramento may not be priority #1 when it comes to media markets but if the team can sustain itself while providing more opportunities for people to play and watch full-time pro ball then that's a positive. The league has other brands that can carry the role of marquee teams. More importantly, there are only so many owners/cities in play right now and SF isn't one of them. (Plus San Jose has MLS media "dibs" to SF for the time being.)
> 
> But that's just me.


I guess we should be happy that Pacoima doesn't have dibs on the LA market? Well managed organizations don't talk about problems, they eliminate them.

I see your point; you think that there is economic benefit from adding 5 or 10 more sides. My view is that MLS already has too many franchises that need development assistance. 

MLS needs to focus on branding efforts for those that are willing to spend their own money to become more widely known. If Cincinnati (or Nashville, etc.) thinks they are going to be part of this group, let them talk about funding sources and branding strategy internationally. If not, there are other leagues available to them.

In other words, what exactly do these mid-sized towns do for MLS? It's one more mouth to feed with no drawing power more than 10 miles from city center. Are your eventual superstar teams going to want to go there for matches? Are your advertisers going to fall all over each other to get a 10 second spot on the annual Cincinnati/Nashville match? I just don't see it as a path worth spending time and money on when EPL, Bundesliga, etc., are putting huge money into Asia, Africa, etc. And once people are committed to a given team, they are very difficult to woo away.


----------



## HB07

Will the conferences finals games be sold out ?


----------



## The Game Is Up

Crew season-ticket push began as MLS contacted Austin officials with 'unbelievable opportunity'

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbu...-season-ticket-push-began-asmls-lobbyist.html


----------



## RMB2007

Video of the site in the link below:

https://twitter.com/steventurous/status/933098846250418176










https://twitter.com/lopezjrae












> Minnesota United Tuesday hosted a steel column raising ceremony at the Allianz Field stadium site.
> 
> St. Paul Mayor Chris Coleman, St. Paul City Councilmember Dai Thao and Representative Rena Moran, along with United managing partner Dr. Bill McGuire, spoke to assembled media and partners, provided a stadium update and commemorated the construction milestone by signing a structural steel column.
> The arrival of structural steel is a major milestone in the construction process for Allianz Field.
> 
> On Monday, 50 tons of structural steel columns and beams arrived at the future home of United. More than 440 tons of driver tube material, 1,500 tons of steel canopy and 2,400 tons of structural steel columns and beams will arrive later, making for more than 4,500 tons of steel in the building. There will be more than 7,940 main structural steel pieces that will make up the stadium structure.
> 
> The steel was fabricated by Merrill Iron & Steel, from Schofield, Wisc., and will be erected on site by Danny’s Construction Company, who are headquartered out of Shakopee, Minn.
> 
> Allianz Field, Minnesota United’s privately financed, soccer-specific stadium, which began construction in June, will seat 19,400, including 2,800 supporters in the safe-standing area. The stadium will feature a 115 x 75-yard natural-grass playing surface, with the farthest fan seated 125 feet from the field.
> 
> The stadium is scheduled to open in Spring 2019.


www.frontrowsoccer.com/2017/11/21/s...ds-steel-column-raising-ceremony-new-stadium/


----------



## The Game Is Up

http://www.mystatesman.com/news/loc...dium-may-trigger-vote/ymo5qgrdNMXBgebhMEvA6N/



> An election over bringing the Crew SC soccer team — currently based in Columbus, Ohio — to Austin for the 2019 season is becoming a growing possibility as parkland in the core of the city is emerging as a potential location for a stadium that would need to seat at least 20,000 people.
> 
> Such a drastic change to parkland would be reminiscent of an effort two years ago to build world-class golf courses in far East Austin, something that the city ultimately said would likely need an election.
> 
> While Crew SC owner Anthony Precourt has promised he won’t use taxpayer money to build a facility, the economics would make much more sense if the city were able to provide the land for it free of charge.
> 
> To that end, the Austin City Council has ordered the city to research what city-owned land could be used for a MLS stadium, including parkland. Several media reports show that Butler Shores Metropolitan Park has emerged as the most attractive location for Precourt.
> 
> The park sits in a choice spot along Lady Bird Lake, just behind the Zach Theatre where Barton Creek empties into the Lady Bird Lake. It also meets Precourt’s goal of having a stadium in the city’s core.
> 
> But repurposing the parkland would likely trigger a public election, something Precourt’s lobbyist Richard Suttle said Precourt’s company would prefer to avoid.
> 
> Suttle said the company has conducted surveys leading it to believe voters would approve a proposal to bring the team to Austin. But holding an election could threaten Precourt’s desired timeline for a move to Austin for the 2019 MLS season.
> 
> Precourt would like to have a site for a stadium picked by Jan. 1 and an agreement with the city in place by the summer. Meetings those deadlines would be difficult if the city held an election in either March or May, and outright impossible if a soccer election were held in November 2018.


----------



## pesto

The Game Is Up said:


> http://www.mystatesman.com/news/loc...dium-may-trigger-vote/ymo5qgrdNMXBgebhMEvA6N/


Oh, God no, not a public vote! Are you a f'ng idiot! Why talk to those sukkas? Just flash some bands around the politicos and let's do magic!


----------



## EarthMachOne

isn't Precourt asking for taxpayer money to build a new stadium in Columbus? Isn't he threatening to leave Columbus specifically because he couldn't get a hand out from the city? Why would he not need taxpayer money in Austin?


----------



## pesto

EarthMachOne said:


> isn't Precourt asking for taxpayer money to build a new stadium in Columbus? Isn't he threatening to leave Columbus specifically because he couldn't get a hand out from the city? Why would he not need taxpayer money in Austin?


Good question. Possible answers:

1. He expects so much more ticket revenue in Austin that he doesn't care about the stadium costs.

2. This is all just a bluff to get Columbus to kick in some dough.

3. He is just b/s'ing and fully expects land and a stadium to be built and leased on a lucrative (or at least pretty good) basis.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Report: MLS offers Columbus opportunity to get into expansion race

https://www.massivereport.com/2017/...nto-expansion-race-crew-sc-save-the-crew-2017


----------



## Lumbergo

Chevy114 said:


> Guess MLS2StPete is over now that the rowdies are for sale?
> 
> http://www.tbo.com/sports/2018/02/12/report-rowdies-are-for-sale/




I don’t think you read the same article that I did. Bill is not selling the team, He is looking to expand the ownership group (and will essentially still be in charge) in bid to have a stronger chance of being a part of the next MLS expansion. 

Frankly, as an Orlando city fan, I would freaking love if Tampa came on board - the rivalry would be amazing. Especially since there already was one that began in the USL days - it would be much more natural than any rivalry than that of fake Miami.


----------



## Chevy114

Sorry the title was misleading. Yeah I would love to get something going, but it's going to be hard with Miami and Orlando already in.


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## ielag

Zions Bank Stadium almost finished. Home of Real Salt Lake's USL team Real Monarchs.


----------



## The Game Is Up

The good, the bad and the ugly of MLS expansion: What LAFC can expect

http://www.espn.com/soccer/major-le...he-ugly-of-mls-expansion-what-lafc-can-expect


Here's what we know about Phoenix Rising FC's proposed MLS-style stadium

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...nix-rising-fc-proposed-mls-stadium/325577002/


----------



## EdooGdl

ielag said:


> Zions Bank Stadium almost finished. Home of Real Salt Lake's USL team Real Monarchs.


And home of the Utah Warriors, a Major League Rugby franchise.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Minnesota United unveils first seating plans for new Allianz Field stadium

http://www.startribune.com/minnesot...lans-for-new-allianz-field-stadium/474298273/


St. Paul City Council votes to exempt soccer stadium from noise limits

http://www.startribune.com/st-paul-...oise-from-minnesota-united-stadium/474110953/


----------



## RMB2007

*Allianz Field*




























More images in the link below:

https://www.mnufc.com/photos/2018/02/16/allianz-field-update-february-15-2018


----------



## RMB2007

^^

Vid in the link:

https://twitter.com/MNUFC/status/964936487811854341


----------



## Juanpabloangel

I see the stadium is to hold under 20k fans... didn't they have some decent crowds in their first season at the larger venue.... why not 25 or 30K?


----------



## master_klon

Juanpabloangel said:


> I see the stadium is to hold under 20k fans... didn't they have some decent crowds in their first season at the larger venue.... why not 25 or 30K?


The stadium is being built to be expandable to 25000. Out of their 17 home games, only 7 of them were over 20000 (the inaugural game and the last six of the season) and the inaugural game was their only over 25000. 19400 is enough for them at present, and the club can use the small capacity to build some demand for tickets.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Plus they want to ease into higher numbers for this particular location, which hasn't been tested for anything like this. The current stadium at UofM is more than capable of handling large crowds, but they still need to see how things flow at this site.


----------



## RMB2007

*Allianz Field*




























https://twitter.com/FOX9

Video in the link:

https://twitter.com/andygreder/status/966780020566917120


----------



## Juanpabloangel

I guess there is no issue with future proofing here, provided they don't put on an elaborate roof, like they did in Melbourne (the a-league/rugby stadium) was going to be expandable during consultation but then becomes almost impossible with the way they structured the roof... I guess they could still use the larger stadium too, where there was a very high demand game or a couple of times a year.


----------



## slipperydog

RMB2007 said:


> https://timesofsandiego.com/sports/...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer


Owner/GM Alex Gontran confirmed today via Facebook Live that the club intends to build its stadium at the Oceanside soccer complex and that it will open for the 2019 USL season (given that it is modular construction, it will take only 4 months).

If need be, he said the team would temporarily play at the Univ. of San Diego.


----------



## slipperydog

*JACKSONVILLE ARMADA OWNER SEEKS TO BUILD NEW STADIUM IN JACKSONVILLE*

The owner of the Jacksonville Armada announced Tuesday that he is seeking to build a new stadium for the soccer team in Jacksonville.

Owner Robert Palmer made the announcement at the kickoff at the Armada Business Alliance. He said has both the funding and designs in place, they are just looking for a location to buy land.

He said he also hopes he can work with the Jacksonville business community so the stadium could benefit the city, especially when it comes to jobs.

"If there's somewhere I can put this building to have a bigger impact on this community, if there's somewhere I don't know, that I'm not thinking about, that can have a serious impact on the Jacksonville market, I want to make sure we explore that before we break ground," Palmer said. "If we can create more jobs in Jacksonville, well that's exciting to me as well."

Once they buy the land, he said the stadium plans to be called HomeValue.com stadium. Palmer currently owns HomeValue.com.

Watch as he makes the announcement:
https://twitter.com/nbace/status/971171274465607682/video/1

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/mobil...o-build-new-stadium-in-jacksonville/526401806


----------



## GunnerJacket

Shouldn't he find a league for the senior team first?


----------



## slipperydog

GunnerJacket said:


> Shouldn't he find a league for the senior team first?


They'll probably join NISA. Although USL would take them in a heartbeat.


----------



## RMB2007

*1904 FC*





















> Full Experience for Fractional Cost: the Modular Stadium
> 
> Populous recently unveiled a smarter stadium solution for our clients in San Diego that is scheduled to open in 2019. By merging the ability to customize large-scale events with the infrastructure of a full-scale stadium, we’ve developed a more adaptable, efficient and sustainable option that offers the same game day experience that fans love. Using this new method, we are able to give our 1904 FC clients a proper 9,500 seat, multipurpose soccer stadium with the full fan amenities desired for close to $15 million. The stadium will include fan benefits such as VIP opportunities and a great vantage point to the pitch.
> 
> While working with 1904 FC, PMC allows us to build the team’s identity for a fraction of the cost. This method means that components, or “pods,” can be assembled off-site, eliminating weather delays and allowing simultaneous preparation of both the site and its pods. As a result, these facilities can be built in half the time of a traditional stadium and can be disassembled just as quickly. This rapid construction rate allows teams to move in and start training sooner while owners begin utilizing revenue streams quicker.


https://populous.com/posts/full-experience-fractional-cost-modular-stadium/


----------



## aquamaroon

So while their new home, Audi Field, is finishing up construction, DC United is playing games at the Maryland SoccerPlex. First game here against the Houston Dynamo:






































https://twitter.com/MDSoccerPlex

A little bit of English League 2 with your MLS! :lol:


----------



## slipperydog

Why isn't RFK stadium being used in the interim?


----------



## carnifex2005

They're only playing one at the SoccerPlex. Their next "home" game is in Annapolis at the Navy-Marine Corps Memorial Stadium.


----------



## Ranma Saotome

March 19

Allianz Field. Click to enlarge:



https://twitter.com/tylermason21


----------



## Guest

Is that Minneapolis in the distance, or St Paul? Either way, good to know that there's a direct highway leading to whatever city that is. Looks like a quick drive to downtown.


----------



## tinyslam

That is St. Paul. Minneapolis would be about 5 miles back on that highway.


----------



## matthemod

tinyslam said:


> That is St. Paul. Minneapolis would be about 5 miles back on that highway.


Out of curiosity, how far away from the Stadium is St Paul?


----------



## ChesterCopperpot

Pretty much slap bang in the middle between each city


----------



## tinyslam

matthemod said:


> Out of curiosity, how far away from the Stadium is St Paul?


~3 miles


----------



## tree-hugger

matthemod said:


> Out of curiosity, how far away from the Stadium is St Paul?


0 feet, 0 inches. It's in Saint Paul!



5portsF4n said:


> Is that Minneapolis in the distance, or St Paul? Either way, good to know that there's a direct highway leading to whatever city that is. Looks like a quick drive to downtown.


If you look on the left side of that photo, you'll see a green line train, which also runs directly between downtowns.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

tree-hugger said:


> 0 feet, 0 inches. It's in Saint Paul!


Distances are measured not from the edges of territorial divisions, but from their respective "kilometre zero" (also known as "zero point" afaik).

So it's four miles to the place where Google indicates the Saint Paul zero point.


----------



## SounderBruce

The light rail station adjacent to the stadium is about 20 minutes from Downtown Minneapolis and 15 minutes from Downtown St. Paul, according to the Green Line schedule.


----------



## ielag

> Mecklenburg County has approved a major renovation to Charlotte’s Memorial Stadium, positioning the facility to become the home of the Charlotte Independence (USL).
> 
> As part of a $32-million capital project, Mecklenburg County will proceed with a major overhaul to the 82-year-old Memorial Stadium. The plan calls for the Independence to begin playing at the renovated stadium in 2021, marking the beginning of a 10-year lease agreement that will also come with two five-year options that could extend the deal.












Not an official render, just a concept of the site.

https://soccerstadiumdigest.com/2018/03/memorial-stadium-renovation-approved/


----------



## flashman

tinyslam said:


> ~3 miles


3 points, shurely.


----------



## flashman

ielag said:


> Not an official render, just a concept of the site.
> 
> https://soccerstadiumdigest.com/2018/03/memorial-stadium-renovation-approved/


It jes hollers 'Ambish-yun''.


----------



## Calvin W

alexandru.mircea said:


> Distances are measured not from the edges of territorial divisions, but from their respective "kilometre zero" (also known as "zero point" afaik).
> 
> So it's four miles to the place where Google indicates the Saint Paul zero point.


Americans think different mate. Technically the City of St Paul encompasses this stadium. Downtown St Paul is 4 miles away.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

^ that's exactly what I was saying...


----------



## slipperydog

*City, Rhinos reach deal on soccer stadium*

The City of Rochester and the Rhinos' new owners have reached a stadium deal. Either Rhinos commit to returning to USL for 2019 or owners get evicted from their stadium. 

https://www.democratandchronicle.co...y-rhinos-reach-deal-soccer-stadium/448959002/


----------



## Sheppard Fiddler

ielag said:


>




Ok, I admit it... I love large sunken back fed bowls.


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> *City, Rhinos reach deal on soccer stadium*
> 
> The City of Rochester and the Rhinos' new owners have reached a stadium deal. Either Rhinos commit to returning to USL for 2019 or owners get evicted from their stadium.
> 
> https://www.democratandchronicle.co...y-rhinos-reach-deal-soccer-stadium/448959002/


Good. I hope this gets resolved for the better, both for the City financially and for the fans. It'd be a shame for the Rhinos to be completely erased from the soccer landscape.


----------



## Franchise646

Ranma Saotome said:


> March 19
> 
> Allianz Field. Click to enlarge:
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/tylermason21


https://www.twincities.com/2018/03/...ip-supply-in-minnesota-uniteds-allianz-field/



> Minnesota United believes it will have a good problem when they open Allianz Field next spring: more fans than seats.
> The stadium rising on the corner of Snelling Avenue and Interstate 94 in St. Paul’s Midway neighborhood will have a capacity of 19,400, well below the announced crowd of 23,138 the Loons had for the home opener at TCF Bank Stadium on March 17. It’s also below seven straight crowds of more than 20,000 since July.
> Allianz Field has the ability to increase capacity to around 25,000, but the ownership group headed by Bill McGuire is holding off on that additional $30 million to $40 million to a stadium price tag that already has risen from $150 to $200 million in private money.
> “That doesn’t mean to say that the demand remains and we begin to make financial sense of this incredible investment that they are making (and) we won’t go down that path,” United CEO Chris Wright told the Pioneer Press. “I think that we will go down that path and develop those waiting lists and we will have people that will want to be a part of this.”
> United’s season-ticket base sits just south of 13,500, with plans to cap it somewhere between 14,000 and 15,000, leaving more than 4,000 seats available per game next season. On Tuesday, the club announced it sold out of more than 600 premium seats on the stadium’s west side within 11 days.
> “The fact that we’ve done it is going to turn some heads,” said Wright, a longtime executive with the Timberwolves and Lynx before joining the MLS club. “Other properties in the market might look and go, ‘How have they done this?’ Really, I think it’s because we found a way to really tell the story of Allianz Field.”
> A 2,100-square-foot space adjacent to their Golden Valley offices show what the experience will be like in their new home. A hologram of Wright gives an introduction, and a collection of large touchscreen TVs provides 360-degree vantage points from fans’ prospective seats. Those who have committed signed a large flag that will fly in the stadium.
> The tour also shows the north side of the stadium, with a “beer hall” and a large abundance of taps, and the roof deck for large groups above it. Each will hold about 280 fans.
> The outside area on the north side of the stadium includes a 1.2-acre public lawn, which won’t be available for tailgating but is envisioned as a gathering space to eat from food trucks, play pickup soccer and watch small concerts.
> The new stadium, which would nearly fit within the lower bowl of TCF Bank Stadium, will have a second round of 800 premium seats go on sale in the coming days, and demand is expected to be robust.
> Related Articles
> Allianz Field is a year away from completion. Here’s a look inside.
> During a March 15 meeting with diehard supporters groups before the home opener, Sean Sittnick, United’s director of sales, revealed that season tickets for supporters will decrease from $365 in 2018 to $360 in 2019 in Allianz Field if renewal deadlines are met.
> Those fans, many of whom are in the Dark Clouds group, will stand in sections holding 2,850 on the south side of the stadium. The incline of those sections will be 34 degrees, believed to be the steepest in MLS, while creating a tough environment for the opposition behind the net.
> Other season-ticket holders outside the supporters section will see their prices go up 5 percent to 10 percent, with areas near the halfway line seeing larger increases, Wright said.
> “We are not going to grow our gross gate that much because we are downsizing,” Wright said.


----------



## RMB2007

> USL East Bay owner Mark D. Hall submits an offer letter to Oakland Mayor and City Council describing a multi-stadium project for professional baseball, professional soccer and youth sports at the Oakland Coliseum Complex.


https://twitter.com/USL2EastBay


----------



## will101

So, seemingly overnight Oakland and Alameda County could jump from counting pennies to pay for Mount Davis, to having the debt disappear and having a tidy sum in the bank. Those people would have to be crazy to say no.


----------



## Guest

*Orlando City owner sells 8.6% stake for $42 million...valuing Orlando City at $490 million*

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chriss...-a-nearly-500-million-valuation/#db91ef82dee2


----------



## noize

Historic day in LA, what a game!


----------



## Guest

Yep, that was great. This will go down in folklore:


----------



## Guest

17,500 in Indianapolis in USL for the first game at Lucas Oil Field, which Indy Eleven lost to Cincinnati 1-0. 

Cool banner for anyone that's familiar with Stranger Things (one of the characters is called 'Eleven'.


----------



## Guest

8,000 in Las Vegas in USL, LV Lights beating Swope Park 2-1.


----------



## slipperydog

*Charlotte Independence Set for Memorial Stadium Move*

CHARLOTTE, N.C. – The Charlotte Independence’s future lies at American Legion Memorial Stadium, which under a recent agreement approved by Mecklenburg County commissioners will undergo a $32 renovation that will modernize the historic venue in downtown Charlotte for both the Independence and the Charlotte Hounds of Major League Lacrosse to call their home early in the next decade.

“The Independence had the original will and vision to renovate American Legion Memorial Stadium to remake it into the great community asset it once was,” said Independence President and Managing Partner Jim McPhilliamy. “We are thrilled we will be able to make American Legion Memorial Stadium our home field starting in 2021. Being able to play in the new stadium will put the Charlotte Independence in a position to grow the beautiful game here in the Queen City and create something our whole community can be proud of.”

The agreement approved by Mecklenburg County will see the Independence pay a total of $2.12 million in rent over 10 years for use of the venue, while the county will receive 15 percent of the revenue from parking, concessions and naming rights in addition to $3 from every ticket order placed online. The cost of the renovation will be fully funded by the county, but there are continuing discussions with the Charlotte Regional Visitors Authority and the City of Charlotte over a potential contribution of $8 million toward the initial cost of the proposed synthetic turf field.

The Independence and the Hounds would be the primary tenants at the facility and would play up to 30 games per year at the venue. The Independence currently play at the Sportsplex at Matthews, located outside Charlotte’s central hub, and are currently off to the best start in the club’s history with a 2-0-1 record that has put the side top of the Eastern Conference standings.

In addition to the presence of the Independence and the Hounds, the hope is the venue would also attract state-wide events in addition to providing a greater stage for the city’s local rivalries in other sports.

“I’m hoping we’ll do more with this stadium,” Mecklenburg Commissioner George Dunlap told the Charlotte Post’s Ashley Mahoney. “I haven’t been to a CIAA championship football game in a long time, and I’m hoping we can do something to attract them, since their headquarters are here as well. I’m looking forward to the renewed rivalry between Johnson C. Smith and Livingstone College being renewed at this stadium.”

Mecklenburg County is looking to hire a firm to design and build the stadium, with a *potential timeline of the Independence moving into the renovated facility for the 2021 USL season*.

https://www.uslsoccer.com/news_article/show/904165?referrer_id=2333971


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> *Charlotte Independence Set for Memorial Stadium Move*
> 
> CHARLOTTE, N.C. – The Charlotte Independence’s future lies at American Legion Memorial Stadium, which under a recent agreement approved by Mecklenburg County commissioners will undergo a $32 renovation that will modernize the historic venue in downtown Charlotte...


Really blowing the budget on this one, I see.


----------



## Archbishop

Good picture showing Lucas during the game. It's a bit cavernous. That's 17,535 in there, the entire 100 level for the most part plus some 200 level from what I could tell.


----------



## Archbishop

They really need to darken the soccer lines for the next game. It was really hard to tell where players were on the field at the game. This picture shows how light they were.


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^That's actually not bad. I know folks hate the latest generation of NFL stadiums as soccer venues, but its much better than what MLS used to have to deal with. 

Filling that would be... what? 30k? Considering how Indy has done as an NASL/USL team, 30k is pretty doable if the team were an MLS side. They'd also be able to spend some money on better turf, tarps, etc a la Atlanta and Seattle. Who knows? Maybe they get popular enough to fill the place like Atlanta and Seattle? 

If recent history has shown us anything, its that building a stadium is fraught with pitfalls and delays (Looking at you Cincy and Miami). Maybe it IS better to work with what you have. 

I'm still pretty okay with Detroit having the backing of the Lion's owners and access to a pretty fancy new stadium, even if it has turf and needs tarping. It'd be pretty cool if Indy were to break into MLS with the backing of the Colts owners.


----------



## Nacre

I think it's also important to note the economic benefits to the city for an NFL and MLS groundshare.

The NFL only plays eight home games per season, which makes maintaining a steady income difficult for local bars/restaurants and the part time workers at the stadium (concessionaires, ushers, etc.) Adding another seventeen MLS games is a huge boost to the commercial life not only of the stadium, but also the stadium's neighborhood.

Two sites also requires duplication of infrastructure and planning. One stadium is better than two for efficiency of mass transit, parking garages, security, traffic management, etc.

As much as I would prefer an all-grass MLS as a fan of the league, if I were the mayor of a city with the NFL and MLS I would vastly prefer the Atlanta or Seattle situation with two teams sharing a downtown venue.


----------



## pesto

Nacre said:


> I think it's also important to note the economic benefits to the city for an NFL and MLS groundshare.
> 
> The NFL only plays eight home games per season, which makes maintaining a steady income difficult for local bars/restaurants and the part time workers at the stadium (concessionaires, ushers, etc.) Adding another seventeen MLS games is a huge boost to the commercial life not only of the stadium, but also the stadium's neighborhood.
> 
> Two sites also requires duplication of infrastructure and planning. One stadium is better than two for efficiency of mass transit, parking garages, security, traffic management, etc.
> 
> As much as I would prefer an all-grass MLS as a fan of the league, if I were *the mayor of a city *with the NFL and MLS I would vastly prefer the Atlanta or Seattle situation with two teams sharing a downtown venue.


If you were the mayor of a city you would fight for two stadiums under pressure from the construction industry, building trades unions, and their union allies. Between them they provide perhaps half of your campaign funding and 5000 "volunteer" workers who campaign door-to-door for you as if their jobs depended on it. 

Fortunately, most of the city council would be on your side.


----------



## KingmanIII

^^ as well as those who have watched an MLS match in an empty NFL stadium


----------



## pesto

KingmanIII said:


> ^^ as well as those who have watched an MLS match in an empty NFL stadium


:lol: Yes, empty stadiums trigger all kinds of negative comments.

On a related issue, looks like the GS Warriors may outdraw the A's this year, per game. In fact, every NBA team may. Here, at least, the solution may well be a more appropriate (modern, repaired) stadium.


----------



## matthemod

Archbishop said:


> They really need to darken the soccer lines for the next game. It was really hard to tell where players were on the field at the game. This picture shows how light they were.


I was just about to say that looks like the narrowest pitch I've ever seen, until I realised that those lighter parts are actually the NFL sidelines!


----------



## The Game Is Up

Hartford council to vote on $7.5M redevelopment of Dillon Stadium

http://www.hartfordbusiness.com/article/20180409/NEWS01/180409909


----------



## bd popeye

*Billionaire Patrick Soon-Shiong in negotiations to buy D.C. United of Major League Soccer*http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-soon-shiong-dc-united-20180410-story.html



> story by: Kevin Baxter and Andrea ChangContact Reporters
> 
> Los Angeles billionaire Patrick Soon-Shiong is in the final stages of completing a deal to become a major stakeholder in D.C. United, according to a source close to the negotiations who declined to speak on the record because an agreement hasn’t been signed.
> 
> Soon-Shiong, who owns a small stake in the Lakers, is leading a group to buy about a 78% stake in the Major League Soccer club currently held by majority owner Erick Thohir, an Indonesian businessman who has been the team’s general partner since 2012.
> 
> The investment group also includes team Chief Executive Jason Levien.
> 
> Under the terms of agreement Soon-Shiong would hold the majority of the group’s stake. A deal, which would value D.C. United at about $500 million, is expected to be completed by the end of the month.


----------



## Archbishop

BoulderGrad said:


> ^^That's actually not bad. I know folks hate the latest generation of NFL stadiums as soccer venues, but its much better than what MLS used to have to deal with.
> 
> Filling that would be... what? 30k? Considering how Indy has done as an NASL/USL team, 30k is pretty doable if the team were an MLS side. They'd also be able to spend some money on better turf, tarps, etc a la Atlanta and Seattle. Who knows? Maybe they get popular enough to fill the place like Atlanta and Seattle?
> 
> If recent history has shown us anything, its that building a stadium is fraught with pitfalls and delays (Looking at you Cincy and Miami). Maybe it IS better to work with what you have.
> 
> I'm still pretty okay with Detroit having the backing of the Lion's owners and access to a pretty fancy new stadium, even if it has turf and needs tarping. It'd be pretty cool if Indy were to break into MLS with the backing of the Colts owners.


I think it was 24K to fill the 100 level and the 200 level.

The main problem with filling it this year is that half of our matches are on Wednesday night. Weekend games should be pretty full but there will be some games with low numbers.


----------



## pesto

bd popeye said:


> *Billionaire Patrick Soon-Shiong in negotiations to buy D.C. United of Major League Soccer*http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-soon-shiong-dc-united-20180410-story.html


S-S was interested in the Dodgers but didn't make the bidding cut. He then botched some medical ventures and has been out of sight until he recently bought the LA Times.

At least DC will get some good west coast press. :lol:


----------



## Guest

bd popeye said:


> *Billionaire Patrick Soon-Shiong in negotiations to buy D.C. United of Major League Soccer*http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-soon-shiong-dc-united-20180410-story.html


So Orlando just a week ago valued at $490 million. DC's sale now reportedly puts them at a valuation of $500 million. 

These are huge spikes considering LA Galaxy was highest valued by Forbes last year at $315 million. Orlando was at $272 million and DC was at $230 million.


----------



## pesto

5portsF4n said:


> So Orlando just a week ago valued at $490 million. DC's sale now reportedly puts them at a valuation of $500 million.
> 
> These are huge spikes considering LA Galaxy was highest valued by Forbes last year at $315 million. Orlando was at $272 million and DC was at $230 million.


Yes. Forbes has methodology that will almost certainly WAY undervalue US going concerns (sports teams or any other line of business). In general, they do not look enough at the potential that has not been exploited by the old school owners who think and market too locally and too narrowly.

IMO, certain MLS teams would go for a billion if they were for sale, which they are not. Almost no one believes that an MLS franchise in a large, growing city is a bad investment.


----------



## Guest

pesto said:


> Yes. Forbes has methodology that will almost certainly WAY undervalue US going concerns (sports teams or any other line of business). In general, they do not look enough at the potential that has not been exploited by the old school owners who think and market too locally and too narrowly.
> 
> IMO, certain MLS teams would go for a billion if they were for sale, which they are not. Almost no one believes that an MLS franchise in a large, growing city is a bad investment.


Yeah, they're either factoring in potential growth with these stakes that value them at half a billion, or Soccer United Marketing has gotten a lot more valuable to be part of. 

In truth, it's a bit of both probably, but I'm guessing the latter has a lot more to do with it. SUM remains the real prize for MLS investors. It grew from $500m in 2011 to $2 billion in 2016. 

This piece, from last year, is essential reading for anyone that doesn't understand why MLS is a hot property despite team revenues not keeping up with valuations, or people that believe MLS is a pyramid scheme (it's not): https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2...jor-league-soccer-marketing-usa-mexico-canada


----------



## Sheppard Fiddler

5portsF4n said:


> This piece, from last year, is essential reading for anyone that doesn't understand why MLS is a hot property despite team revenues not keeping up with valuations, or people that believe MLS is a pyramid scheme (it's not): https://www.starsandstripesfc.com/2...jor-league-soccer-marketing-usa-mexico-canada


This did make me laugh as a stated reason why MLS clubs are actually making more money than it appears - it's because their stock pilling merchandise.

"If you shift real money into Allocation Money, then it can maybe be rewritten as a business expense, or perhaps buying a ton of team merchandise to sell later, etc."


----------



## RMB2007

*Allianz Field*



















https://twitter.com/MNUFC


----------



## The Game Is Up

MLS Commissioner Don Garber: United’s Allianz Field will hold big-time matches

https://www.twincities.com/2018/04/...allianz-field-will-host-higher-level-matches/


----------



## RMB2007

*Allianz Field*










https://twitter.com/steventurous


----------



## aquamaroon

With BoC stadium done and set to host its first match this weekend, it's now Allianz's turn to be the fancy new project! :cheers:


----------



## GunnerJacket

aquamaroon said:


> With BoC stadium done and set to host its first match this weekend, it's now Allianz's turn to be the fancy new project! :cheers:


Technically DC United's Audi Field is next on the lest as they are set to open later this summer. 





Oh, wait, you said "fancy." My bad.


----------



## aquamaroon

TONS of photos of the first game at the new Banc Of California Stadium in Los Angeles over on its thread for those interested! :cheers: My personal favorite so far:












https://twitter.com/LAFC/status/990769506422173697


----------



## Rover030

I saw this neat infographic on reddit:


----------



## GunnerJacket

Rover030 said:


> I saw this neat infographic on reddit:


a) That's very cool!
b) I noticed that they didn't include the "LA" before "Galaxy." It's almost as if LAFC doesn't want you to remember that there's another LA team.


----------



## Lumbergo

GunnerJacket said:


> a) That's very cool!
> 
> b) I noticed that they didn't include the "LA" before "Galaxy." It's almost as if LAFC doesn't want you to remember that there's another LA team.




Huh... didn’t notice that. I was gonna comment some of the facts are pretty useless and makes one wonder if there had been anything interesting about a few of these stadia.


----------



## slipperydog

GunnerJacket said:


> a) That's very cool!
> b) I noticed that they didn't include the "LA" before "Galaxy." It's almost as if LAFC doesn't want you to remember that there's another LA team.


The graphic was put together by the Los Angeles Times, not LAFC, and they likely assumed the readers understand that Galaxy are another local team. It's what the Times does for all the local sports teams. They refer to local teams without putting LA in front of it.


----------



## will101

Avaya Stadium has upgraded what was a largely unused section. The southeast corner is now called 'the Sky Lounge'.


----------



## RMB2007

*Real Monarchs*










https://twitter.com/meganrsl












> @RealMonarchs are opening their brand-new stadium in Herriman


https://twitter.com/kslsports


----------



## pesto

slipperydog said:


> The graphic was put together by the Los Angeles Times, not LAFC, and they likely assumed the readers understand that Galaxy are another local team. It's what the Times does for all the local sports teams. They refer to local teams without putting LA in front of it.


I prefer the idea that LAFC's view is that there* isn't *another LA team. They should offer escorted city tours for Galaxy fans who have never been to Los Angeles before. :lol:


----------



## matthemod

Looking at that graphic you can really see how far Soccer Specific Stadiums have progressed. Even in 10 years you can see how they've developed from being cheap, utilitarian, and mostly open aired to these beautiful stadiums that wouldn't look out of place in any other major footballing nation.


----------



## BoulderGrad

matthemod said:


> Looking at that graphic you can really see how far Soccer Specific Stadiums have progressed. Even in 10 years you can see how they've developed from being cheap, utilitarian, and mostly open aired to these beautiful stadiums that wouldn't look out of place in any other major footballing nation.


In light of how much they've progressed, here's the SSSs of MLS that could probably stand to be replaced in order of urgency. This would all of course assume the owners are footing the bill. 

1: Mapfre Stadium

Shameful how the team and its fans have been treated by the current ownership. But TBH, the old crew stadium stands out as being one of the most spartan stadiums in the league. And while not super far out of town, its certainly not in the most hoppin' corner of Columbus either. Here's hoping some new owners can come together and get a shiny new 20k seater built on their own dime over by Nationwide arena or other site close to downtown.



2: Dicks Sporting Goods Park. 

Stadium is fine, but still a little on the spartan side, and way out in the toxic waste end of Denver. Would love to see a 20k seater in the parking lots near Pepsi Center and Elitch Gardens. 



3: Toyota Park (FC Dallas)

Too bad they're just finishing the US soccer hall of fame. Also not that Dallas isn't a city where folks aren't willing to drive a bit... But Frisco is waaay out there on a toll road, and the stadium looks like it was built for a high school football team (not really an insult in Texas, but still not quite feeling like a soccer stadium). Would much rather see a stadium with a roof to protect fans from that Texas summer sun down in the parking lots near Victory Station and the American Airlines Center. 



4: SeatGeek Stadium

Its a shame when your local USL team is getting a better stadium than the local MLS team. Its still a better quality stadium than the previous 3, but way out of town in one of the most congested, densely populated cities in the country. Might as well be on the moon. The team needs a new 25k-30k seater fit for a city the stature of Chicago near an El stop. Perhaps on the lakefront near Soldier field?



5: Talen Energy Stadium

This one isn't so much about the stadium as it is the location. I wish there was some way you could just teleport it. Philly has one of the greatest sports complexes in the country and its a shame they couldn't have built this exact stadium at the site of the old Spectrum. But at this point, it still works for Philly. The team does well in attendance and the facility is great. Just imagine what the team could be with access to the subway and the central city.

Honorable mentions:

Red Bull Arena: The stadium is great and the area around it is growing rapidly, but still a long way to go. We'll see once all the Harrison developments and the PATH station are done. 

Audi Field: Glad to finally see DC get a stadium, and I'm sure it will be fine, but... really guys?... this was the best we could do?...


----------



## GunnerJacket

Do they plan to eventually remodel it for a proper soccer venue?


----------



## H.U.S.T.L.E.

Chevy114 said:


> Interesting they went Dallas over Houston





GunnerJacket said:


> I'm guessing they want to support/promote the new Hall of Fame.


Looks like Houston is getting Gold Cup games after all, and at two venues no less: BBVA Compass Stadium and NRG Stadium.


----------



## aquamaroon

^^ Yep! In addition to BBVA Compass, Red Bull Arena in New Jersey was also picked. So in the interesting of completion here are the soccer specific stadiums hosting the 2019 CONCACAF Gold Cup:

Toyota Stadium









Children's Mercy Park









Banc of California Stadium









Allianz Field









BBVA Compass Stadium









Red Bull Arena


----------



## aquamaroon

From the Gold Cup Website here is the full list of venues:

Allianz Field - Saint Paul, MN* 
Banc of California Stadium - Los Angeles, CA* 
Bank of America Stadium - Charlotte, NC (2011, 2015)
BBVA Compass Stadium - Houston, TX (2013, 2015, 2017)
Children’s Mercy Park - Kansas City, KS (2011, 2015)
FirstEnergy Stadium - Cleveland, OH (2017)
Lincoln Financial Field - Philadelphia, PA (2009, 2015, 2017)
Nissan Stadium - Nashville, TN (2017)
NRG Stadium - Houston, TX (2005, 2007, 2009, 2011)
Red Bull Arena - Harrison, NJ (2011, 2013, 2017)
Rose Bowl - Pasadena, CA (1991, 2002, 2011, 2013, 2017)
Soldier Field - Chicago, IL (2007, 2009, 2011, 2013, 2015)
Sports Authority Field at Mile High - Denver, CO (2013, 2017)
Toyota Stadium - Frisco, TX (2015, 2017)
University of Phoenix Stadium - Glendale, AZ (2009, 2015, 2017)

Big surprise... No Mercedes Benz Stadium! Kinda shocked it's not included.


----------



## tree-hugger

Maybe because it is turf? Of that list, only NRG is not grass.


----------



## GunnerJacket

tree-hugger said:


> Maybe because it is turf? Of that list, only NRG is not grass.


Unlikely, because sod can always be brought in for a temporary arrangement if needed. I would guess there may already be some form of scheduling conflict because MBS will be used for a variety of convention-like events, as well.

Just as well for me, as it's an excuse to travel! :cheers:


----------



## JJG

tree-hugger said:


> Maybe because it is turf? Of that list, only NRG is not grass.


I've been on that field before. It felt like grass...


----------



## Rover030

Will they do the seeding in such a way that the bigger countries play in the large stadiums and the smaller countries in the smaller ones? Because there is a big difference in the stadium sizes and it would be a shame if you have some 3/4th empty stadiums like in the Copa America Centenario and then have a stadium that could have been sold out twice for a bigger match.


----------



## ielag

Rover030 said:


> Will they do the seeding in such a way that the bigger countries play in the large stadiums and the smaller countries in the smaller ones? Because there is a big difference in the stadium sizes and it would be a shame if you have some 3/4th empty stadiums like in the Copa America Centenario and then have a stadium that could have been sold out twice for a bigger match.


Mexico will play all their matches in the NFL stadiums because they'll fill them up with fans.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Rover030 said:


> Will they do the seeding in such a way that the bigger countries play in the large stadiums and the smaller countries in the smaller ones? Because there is a big difference in the stadium sizes and it would be a shame if you have some 3/4th empty stadiums like in the Copa America Centenario and then have a stadium that could have been sold out twice for a bigger match.


In a way, yes. Either by virtue of past record, CONCACAF rating, or being host countries they have in the past "seeded" the top 3 or 4 teams to make sure each group has one big name team. Then the grouping of venues will be made so that they'll each be appropriate in size for the respective group matches. At least, as best as possible. Scheduling, weather, and current performance can still affect gameday appeal.


----------



## RMB2007

> Officials with the Minnesota United FC say the cost of their new stadium is expected to go up.
> 
> The team is now estimating Allianz Field in St. Paul will cost $250 million, according to Eric Durkee with Minnesota United FC. It was originally reported the field would cost between $150 million to $250 million.
> 
> Durkee said the team is expected to pick up the extra costs.
> 
> The stadium is expected to open for the 2019 soccer season.


http://kstp.com/news/costs-expected-to-rise-allianz-field-st-paul-minnesota-united/4910674/


----------



## Lumbergo

so they are at the top of their budget but still on budget....


----------



## barberbor

Bayern Munich Opens Office In NYC As Part Of Club's Long-Term U.S. Strategy


Somewhat relevant because they're the opponent in the upcoming MLS ASG.


----------



## tinyslam

barberbor said:


> Bayern Munich Opens Office In NYC As Part Of Club's Long-Term U.S. Strategy
> 
> https://www.euefutbol.com/bayern....-c-1_20/
> Somewhat relevant because they're the opponent in the upcoming MLS ASG.


Juventus is playing in the upcoming all star game in Atlanta not Bayern Munich.


----------



## slipperydog

barberbor said:


> Bayern Munich Opens Office In NYC As Part Of Club's Long-Term U.S. Strategy
> 
> https://www.euefutbol.com/bayern....-c-1_20/
> Somewhat relevant because they're the opponent in the upcoming MLS ASG.


PSG are doing the same thing.

Jonathan Johnson
@Jon_LeGossip
OFFICIAL: PSG open a New York office to further develop their brand in the Americas.

PSG's New York office will be run by new managing director of the Americas, Jerome de Chaunac, and the move "is indicative of the club’s aim to become a leading global sports franchise."


----------



## pesto

Lumbergo said:


> so they are at the top of their budget but still on budget....


But one more dollar and..... :lol:


----------



## pesto

slipperydog said:


> PSG are doing the same thing.
> 
> Jonathan Johnson
> @Jon_LeGossip
> OFFICIAL: PSG open a New York office to further develop their brand in the Americas.
> 
> PSG's New York office will be run by new managing director of the Americas, Jerome de Chaunac, and the move "is indicative of the club’s aim to become a leading global sports franchise."


The leading clubs are coming here so you can see what interest FIFA might have in spreading their banners around North America in 2026.


----------



## RMB2007

> Drove past @allianzfield and it looks like the stadium will soon have a great new cover


https://twitter.com/BicycleMN


----------



## PepMan

Cavalry FC of Canadian Premier League (CPL)'s New Stadium in Spruce Meadows (Calgary, Alberta, Canada)
TODAY








2019


----------



## Chevy114

Are those houses or offices?


----------



## Guest

pesto said:


> Seems like a pretty broad generalization. I know the Texas sides are struggling, but the LA, NY and Chicago sides are among the most valuable in MLS. LAFC is in that group as well, whether Forbes shows it or not. All have huge Hispanic populations.
> 
> Riverside does not have its own team; it's really part of LA. SF/Oakland also does not have a team; but SJ has a very valuable one and they are heavily Hispanic.
> 
> Canada does not have huge immigration into the US. Mexico does. I'm not sure what the advantage of encouraging millions of Hispanics in the US to cling to their old connections to Mexico after they have become US residents. In fact having a US league to root for seems like a helpful bridge to learning American language and customs and meeting non-Hispanic fans.


The value of MLS teams largely correlates with the value of Soccer United Marketing plus the facilities they're building. So saying they're X value doesn't really say much. It tells you nothing of market relevance or footprint. All it says is that broadcasting rights for soccer in the US are rising and owners are using a combination of their money and public purse to raise their value.

All you need to do is look at the local newspapers to see what their relevance is. Portland, Seattle, Orlando, SKC, RSL etc have a footprint. There are more soccer fans in LA metro than probably in all five of those cities combined. Good luck finding mentions of LAG in the LA Times. 




Antioch said:


> AFAIK, FIFA has a policy of one top-level league per country. Having both MLS and LigaMX in the US would cause a hell of problems in international competitions.


Hell of a lot of problems in international competitions? 

Like what exactly?

Like CONMEBOL inviting Japan and Qatar to play in COPA AMERICA...while Mexico and the US twiddle their thumbs? 

Like the fact that Mexico sends its best teams to Concacaf Champions League but it's 'second best' teams played in Copa Libertadores, a much bigger, better and more prestigious competition?

Maybe one day Concacaf and Conmebol will realize that their future is together, not apart. Have a northern and southern conference. There are ways to solve long travel. But that's another story.

Also, Canada is about to start a top tier league. Will that mean the death of TFC, MI, or VW? Nope. Because none of these rules are set in stone. For circumstantial reasons, FIFA has created exceptions. Wales can have English teams despite having its own comp. So can Canada. Mexico? Nah. That's one step too far....


----------



## pesto

5portsF4n said:


> The value of MLS teams largely correlates with the value of Soccer United Marketing plus the facilities they're building. So saying they're X value doesn't really say much. It tells you nothing of market relevance or footprint. All it says is that broadcasting rights for soccer in the US are rising and owners are using a combination of their money and public purse to raise their value.
> 
> All you need to do is look at the local newspapers to see what their relevance is. Portland, Seattle, Orlando, SKC, RSL etc have a footprint. There are more soccer fans in LA metro than probably in all five of those cities combined. Good luck finding mentions of LAG in the LA Times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hell of a lot of problems in international competitions?
> 
> Like what exactly?
> 
> Like CONMEBOL inviting Japan and Qatar to play in COPA AMERICA...while Mexico and the US twiddle their thumbs?
> 
> Like the fact that Mexico sends its best teams to Concacaf Champions League but it's 'second best' teams played in Copa Libertadores, a much bigger, better and more prestigious competition?
> 
> Maybe one day Concacaf and Conmebol will realize that their future is together, not apart. Have a northern and southern conference. There are ways to solve long travel. But that's another story.
> 
> Also, Canada is about to start a top tier league. Will that mean the death of TFC, MI, or VW? Nope. Because none of these rules are set in stone. For circumstantial reasons, FIFA has created exceptions. Wales can have English teams despite having its own comp. So can Canada. Mexico? Nah. That's one step too far....



I can't imagine what criteria you would use for success other than team value or championships. Of these, team value is the real indicator because it reflects what a person would actually pay to own the team. LA, NY, Chicago, SJ right near the top.

As for press coverage, who besides MLS are the local papers in your "successful cities" going to cover between February and August? Seattle and KC have no NBA or NHL. Orlando, Portland and SLC only have NBA. By contrast NY and LA have multiple NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA and MLS, and LA has two major college sports powers.


----------



## slipperydog

I don't even know what this guy is arguing anymore. That Toluca should join MLS because that will get Mexican-Americans excited about the league? What a boring, pointless conversation.


----------



## pesto

slipperydog said:


> I don't even know what this guy is arguing anymore. That Toluca should join MLS because that will get Mexican-Americans excited about the league? What a boring, pointless conversation.


Agree, but there was a legitimate point there, which is that many recent immigrants follow their old home teams more than their new home teams. (I did the same thing when I moved to the Bay Area but still followed the LA teams.) Latins are the largest group of immigrants in many cities and are big fans, so they are a market worth pursuing.

From experience, I never met a Latino that was not a Chivas fan when that team was still around LA. But that team had management issues and is now mostly gone (a sliver of it survives in LAFC's genetics). Interesting to see how the MLS teams will fight for their support.


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan

5portsF4n said:


> LA Galaxy are practically irrelevant in LA. 5 championships to boot.
> 
> LAFC is a 'wait and see'. As yet, the new shine hasn't worn off (although judging by the number of people that showed up as empty seats already at a couple of their games it may not take long).
> 
> Phoenix? What? Let's not start, please.
> 
> Houston? Yeah, Houston are attracting Mexicans to games. They'd be attracting a lot more if they were playing Club America.
> 
> Atlanta? I mean, yeah, it's doing very well, but it's Mexican population is only like 350k by comparison. And, another unpopular opinion: this shine hasn't faded with Atlanta yet. We have no idea what their base will be when they're in their seventh year and dead last in the eastern conference.
> 
> The Mexican league already tried to expand to the US and was shut down from what I've read.
> 
> Eurosnobs are a major problem, of course. But I'm not saying Mexican-Americans are a problem.
> 
> I'm saying that LigaMX should have the opportunity to expand into the US if it so desires. This whole business of the USSF being able to stop that because FIFA decrees it is risible, especially when they've made an exception for Canada.


:nuts: The Galaxy are not irrelevant in LA. They draw 25,000 a game and there are many Galaxy supporters all over LA. LAFC hasnt had any "empty seats." All tickets are sold and when youre in a brand new stadium with many bars and food establishments, people are going to be walking around, you know, having a good time


----------



## slipperydog

pesto said:


> Agree, but there was a legitimate point there, which is that many recent immigrants follow their old home teams more than their new home teams. (I did the same thing when I moved to the Bay Area but still followed the LA teams.) Latins are the largest group of immigrants in many cities and are big fans, so they are a market worth pursuing.


*Recent* immigrants? Well, sure. If they actually ARE recent. Frankly, I don't think that's a point even worth debating.

However, he was referencing cumulative statistics of the Mexican-American population as a whole, which inherently includes a significant majority who have either lived in the United States for all or a large part of their lives.

The crux was that Liga MX teams should be allowed to participate in MLS, which is absurd, unnecessary, and unwanted by either national federation.


----------



## pesto

slipperydog said:


> *Recent* immigrants? Well, sure. If they actually ARE recent. Frankly, I don't think that's a point even worth debating.
> 
> However, he was referencing cumulative statistics of the Mexican-American population as a whole, which inherently includes a significant majority who have either lived in the United States for all or a large part of their lives.
> 
> The crux was that Liga MX teams should be allowed to participate in MLS, which is absurd, unnecessary, and unwanted by either national federation.


Agree completely about LMX in the US. That's just silly. 

But it is interesting to see what if anything MLS teams will do to woo the Latin population in their respective cities. LAFC is in an area that is over 50 percent Latin and the city and county are near 50 percent. And they tend to like soccer.


----------



## Franchise646

It's sounds like the next two teams, going to be West Cost teams. FCC well be in the east next year and both Miami and Nashville we be in the in the east.


----------



## JJG

Bori427 said:


> Demographics, weather and no other pro sports team.


Eh, they're both mostly college athletic towns more than pro sports towns, even though Columbus has MLS and NHL. 


As far as the next round of expansion goes, I can see Sacramento and either San Antonio or Phoenix.


----------



## slipperydog

Franchise646 said:


> It's sounds like the next two teams, going to be West Cost teams. FCC well be in the east next year and both Miami and Nashville we be in the in the east.


If Columbus moves to Austin, they will move to the west. Chicago may also move to the west at some point, with geographical rivals Kansas City and Minneapolis.


----------



## Franchise646

slipperydog said:


> If Columbus moves to Austin, they will move to the west. Chicago may also move to the west at some point, with geographical rivals Kansas City and Minneapolis.


I would hate to move Fire to the west because that could be a real good rival for a few teams in the east.


----------



## slipperydog

Franchise646 said:


> I would hate to move Fire to the west because that could be a real good rival for a few teams in the east.


Chicago's typical rivals in other sports are centered more around the midwest than the eastern seaboard, so I don't think it would be the most unusual move.


----------



## Franchise646

slipperydog said:


> Chicago's typical rivals in other sports are centered more around the midwest than the eastern seaboard, so I don't think it would be the most unusual move.


Yes but, the Fire's rivals are Ohio. Wonder what a CF97 fan thinks about moving to the west.


----------



## slipperydog

Franchise646 said:


> Yes but, the Fire's rivals are Ohio. Wonder what a CF97 fan thinks about moving to the west.


Chicago vs Columbus may be a rivalry, but which may very soon become Chicago vs Austin.

After all, the Fire have competed in the old MLS Central Division before, so it's not like they've always been a solely Eastern-oriented team. I'm not saying the fans would be super stoked about it, I'm just talking about what I think may happen if MLS continues to expand eastward. Plus, the Fire fans might eventually come to appreciate new rivalries against other midwestern teams like KC and MN.


----------



## Franchise646

slipperydog said:


> Chicago vs Columbus may be a rivalry, but which may very soon become Chicago vs Austin.
> 
> After all, the Fire have competed in the old MLS Central Division before, so it's not like they've always been a solely Eastern-oriented team. I'm not saying the fans would be super stoked about it, I'm just talking about what I think may happen if MLS continues to expand eastward. Plus, the Fire fans might eventually come to appreciate new rivalries against other midwestern teams like KC and MN.


Which is why I think 27 and 28 will be western teams. I think Sacramento if they can find an investor with real money, and while I think MLS wants San Diego, Arizona seems to be getting everything together (slowly).


----------



## slipperydog

Franchise646 said:


> Which is why I think 27 and 28 will be western teams. I think Sacramento if they can find an investor with real money, and while I think MLS wants San Diego, Arizona seems to be getting everything together (slowly).


I'm much more confident in Phoenix's bid than Sacramento's. Phoenix is a vastly larger market, and I don't think MLS inherently covets the Sacramento/Reno market by any means. When the league didn't have a huge number of viable options, sure Sacramento (or anyone else who could produce an expansion fee and stadium) seemed like as good a choice as any, but these days other, more deep pocketed and fertile soccer markets are getting serious.

Austin and Phoenix would make 14 teams in the West. So I certainly don't see Sacramento as a foregone conclusion, especially if Detroit or North Carolina emerge as serious contenders.


----------



## Franchise646

slipperydog said:


> I'm much more confident in Phoenix's bid than Sacramento's. Phoenix is a vastly larger market, and I don't think MLS inherently covets the Sacramento/Reno market by any means. When the league didn't have a huge number of viable options, sure Sacramento (or anyone else who could produce an expansion fee and stadium) seemed like as good a choice as any, but these days other, more deep pocketed and fertile soccer markets are getting serious.
> 
> Austin and Phoenix would make 14 teams in the West. So I certainly don't see Sacramento as a foregone conclusion, especially if Detroit or North Carolina emerge as serious contenders.


I am going guess Crew stays and maybe Austin gets an expansion. I'm very Detroit's bid died when Ford Field was added to the bid.


----------



## slipperydog

Franchise646 said:


> I am going guess Crew stays and maybe Austin gets an expansion. I'm very Detroit's bid died when Ford Field was added to the bid.


Things don't sound too promising in Columbus actually. The owners have little interest in staying. But we'll find out pretty soon.

As for Detroit, this article from NBC Sports says that Garber has mentioned that redeveloping Ford Field could actually work. I have no idea whether it will happen, but I personally sort of like the idea of Detroit sticking behind their NPSL team, or maybe moving up to USL. They have a cool thing going in the lower levels.



> Detroit – The bid did appear to be hurt substantially when a deal for a stadium downtown collapsed. Yet Garber has mentioned the possibility of Ford Field being redeveloped and look how successful Atlanta United have been in an NFL stadium. If it’s done properly, it can work well. The Ford family have no problem coming up with the reported $150 million franchise fee, plus lower-tier Detroit City FC get big crowds and so too do international friendlies played at nearby Michigan Stadium. Something seems to be brewing in Motor City…


https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2018/05/30/ranking-the-cities-next-in-line-for-mls-expansion/


----------



## Franchise646

slipperydog said:


> Things don't sound too promising in Columbus actually. The owners have little interest in staying. But we'll find out pretty soon.
> 
> As for Detroit, this article from NBC Sports says that Garber has mentioned that redeveloping Ford Field could actually work. I have no idea whether it will happen, but I personally sort of like the idea of Detroit sticking behind their NPSL team, or maybe moving up to USL. They have a cool thing going in the lower levels.
> 
> 
> 
> https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2018/05/30/ranking-the-cities-next-in-line-for-mls-expansion/


At this point I guess we will see.


----------



## Guest

Franchise646 said:


> It's sounds like the next two teams, going to be West Cost teams. FCC well be in the east next year and both Miami and Nashville we be in the in the east.


It's pretty obvious what will happen. 

FCC/Miami/Nashville in East. That takes it to 14. Minus Columbus = 13. 

West at 11. Add Columbus/Austin = 12. West adds 13th = Phoenix/Sacramento/San Diego/Las Vegas.

At this point, looks like a fight between Sacramento and Phoenix. San Diego may do something I guess, but unfortunately for Sacramento, this is Phoenix's to lose. If they get their ducks in a row, Sacramento will have to scrap for 27/28. They'll get in eventually (assuming that stadium deal remains in place long enough), but it doesn't look good if they can't fix that ownership issue.

After that, it's most likely Detroit and one of Sacramento/San Diego for 27 and 28. 

Beyond that, it gets a lot tougher to predict. The landscape can change quickly, and you wouldn't bet on anyone at this stage. Quite frankly, after Detroit and Phoenix come in, there won't be too many obvious markets in general.


----------



## slipperydog

If the Crew move to Austin, the West would have 13 teams, and the East would have 13 teams. So 27 and 28 could be just about anywhere, and I don't get the sense that MLS will rush into it. MLS expansion has never really been about geographic balance anyway, they've always been comfortable shuttling teams back and forth. It's more about a combination of the markets/culture/ownership/stadiums.

But yes, I agree that the media is still overhyping Sacramento's prospects and underselling Phoenix. I personally see Phoenix as the strongest expansion candidate out of everyone right now.


----------



## Franchise646

slipperydog said:


> If the Crew move to Austin, the West would have 13 teams, and the East would have 13 teams. So 27 and 28 could be just about anywhere, and I don't get the sense that MLS will rush into it. MLS expansion has never really been about geographic balance anyway, they've always been comfortable shuttling teams back and forth. It's more about a combination of the markets/culture/ownership/stadiums.
> 
> But yes, I agree that the media is still overhyping Sacramento's prospects and underselling Phoenix. I personally see Phoenix as the strongest expansion candidate out of everyone right now.


While that is true, the lately has sought some balance


----------



## pesto

Sacramento is easy to do short-term but a horrible mistake long-term. It adds nothing in brand value and makes ever having an SF (or even Oakland) team difficult. It's like intentionally going with East Rutherford Giants or Arlington Cowboys because those cities offered you a real nice field to play on.


----------



## pesto

slipperydog said:


> If the Crew move to Austin, the West would have 13 teams, and the East would have 13 teams. So 27 and 28 could be just about anywhere, and I don't get the sense that MLS will rush into it. MLS expansion has never really been about geographic balance anyway, they've always been comfortable shuttling teams back and forth. It's more about a combination of the markets/culture/ownership/stadiums.
> 
> But yes, I agree that the media is still overhyping Sacramento's prospects and underselling Phoenix. I personally see Phoenix as the strongest expansion candidate out of everyone right now.


Hard to see why one would stay in Columbus if you have a clear option to move to Austin where there are NO other professional teams, a rich and growing city and a tailor-made demographic (hip, young, educated, techy, counterculture, etc).

Sure UT is king but no more so than Ohio St. is in Columbus. And college football and basketball have far fewer games than professional leagues do so there is less competition for the dollar.


----------



## Lumbergo

with Cincinnati coming into MLS and Columbus on the way out to Austin... Maybe Columbus can stay on in the USL in some form. would make for a good rivalry with Indianapolis, Louisville, and Pittsburgh (all about 3 hours away from Columbus)


----------



## slipperydog

Lumbergo said:


> with Cincinnati coming into MLS and Columbus on the way out to Austin... Maybe Columbus can stay on in the USL in some form. would make for a good rivalry with Indianapolis, Louisville, and Pittsburgh (all about 3 hours away from Columbus)


We've seen what Detroit fans have done at the NPSL level, and there's actually a new team in Columbus this year also in the NPSL. Cleveland has a new team too. Maybe Crew fans can attach to the Columbus team and they can move into the old Crew stadium in the USL.


----------



## slipperydog

*Louisville Stadium Project Acquires $21.7 Million TIF Funding*

Construction on 11,300 seat stadium to begin in August, open in 2020


----------



## pesto

Lumbergo said:


> with Cincinnati coming into MLS and Columbus on the way out to Austin... Maybe Columbus can stay on in the USL in some form. would make for a good rivalry with Indianapolis, Louisville, and Pittsburgh (all about 3 hours away from Columbus)


That's what makes the Mideast, Midwest, Gt. Lakes area so great. There are so many just barely or not quite major league cities that have a history, civic pride and real people.


----------



## bigchrisfgb

5portsF4n said:


> Also, Canada is about to start a top tier league. Will that mean the death of TFC, MI, or VW? Nope. Because none of these rules are set in stone. For circumstantial reasons, FIFA has created exceptions. Wales can have English teams despite having its own comp. So can Canada. Mexico? Nah. That's one step too far....


I guess you really don't get it. Welsh teams joined the English leagues when the leagues here were just starting out, when the sport was just starting out, long before FIFA came along, even then it is only a few clubs.

The USA and Canada have long shared sporting competitions, mostly because there is only a few Canadian cities playing pro sports and most of them are close to the border. Canada is creating it's own new league but that won't change the situation for Toronto, Vancouver, or Montreal. The CPL won't be able to afford to have any of those teams, and it won't be competitive enough when it initially starts out.
As for Mexico as a whole. They have had their own league system for generations. There is no need for a Mexican team to play in the MLS. Even if you were a new club, joining one of the lower leagues and working your way up would be more preferable to trying to gain the attention of the US based Mexicans and travelling pretty far for most away games.
Why would an established team from Mexico move to the MLS to gain 1 generation of US based fans (who's offspring will likely support another team) and leave behind their hardcore fans in Mexico? Sure they can attend home games, but what about away games? You honestly think the US border guards will take kindly to Mexican's coming over away games? You think the Mexican drug cartels won't try take advantage of them? You think US based Mexican's will go back over the border for 'home' games to risk not getting back into the USA?

There are so many reasons why it's a none starter even if FIFA would allow.

Look at it this way, 10 years ago no one in the world was interested in the MLS, it was a joke league to be honest, and it's long term viability was in doubt. Beckham went there, and a few others followed. All of a sudden the interest in the MLS rocketed, both in the USA (and Canada), and elsewhere in the world. Over time the standard increased, new club were added, other clubs started becoming more popular. Football (Soccer) in general suddenly became popular in the USA and Canada, you guys finally started accepting the sport as more than just a sport played by children and women. The MLS now is a successful league. It has long term viability, teams are profitable and popular. Stadiums are being built specifically for Soccer. The USA and Canada has made a success of the league, so much so that Canada is creating it's own league. In all honesty the MLS doesn't need Mexican teams, it just doesn't. The USA and Canada have made a success of their own Soccer league, thats something to proud of. The Mexican teams don't need the MLS, and the MLS certainly doesn't need Mexican teams.


----------



## RMB2007

> Lighting test at Allianz Field!


https://twitter.com/seanrichardryan


----------



## pesto

bigchrisfgb said:


> I guess you really don't get it. Welsh teams joined the English leagues when the leagues here were just starting out, when the sport was just starting out, long before FIFA came along, even then it is only a few clubs.
> 
> The USA and Canada have long shared sporting competitions, mostly because there is only a few Canadian cities playing pro sports and most of them are close to the border. Canada is creating it's own new league but that won't change the situation for Toronto, Vancouver, or Montreal. The CPL won't be able to afford to have any of those teams, and it won't be competitive enough when it initially starts out.
> As for Mexico as a whole. They have had their own league system for generations. There is no need for a Mexican team to play in the MLS. Even if you were a new club, joining one of the lower leagues and working your way up would be more preferable to trying to gain the attention of the US based Mexicans and travelling pretty far for most away games.
> Why would an established team from Mexico move to the MLS to gain 1 generation of US based fans (who's offspring will likely support another team) and leave behind their hardcore fans in Mexico? Sure they can attend home games, but what about away games? You honestly think the US border guards will take kindly to Mexican's coming over away games? You think the Mexican drug cartels won't try take advantage of them? You think US based Mexican's will go back over the border for 'home' games to risk not getting back into the USA?
> 
> There are so many reasons why it's a none starter even if FIFA would allow.
> 
> Look at it this way, 10 years ago no one in the world was interested in the MLS, it was a joke league to be honest, and it's long term viability was in doubt. Beckham went there, and a few others followed. All of a sudden the interest in the MLS rocketed, both in the USA (and Canada), and elsewhere in the world. Over time the standard increased, new club were added, other clubs started becoming more popular. Football (Soccer) in general suddenly became popular in the USA and Canada, you guys finally started accepting the sport as more than just a sport played by children and women. The MLS now is a successful league. It has long term viability, teams are profitable and popular. Stadiums are being built specifically for Soccer. The USA and Canada has made a success of the league, so much so that Canada is creating it's own league. In all honesty the MLS doesn't need Mexican teams, it just doesn't. The USA and Canada have made a success of their own Soccer league, thats something to proud of. The Mexican teams don't need the MLS, and the MLS certainly doesn't need Mexican teams.


Agree, generally. But as a side note the overwhelming majority of Latins in the US are legal and the Mexican border is quite easily crossed (it's the busiest border in the world with 350M plus crossing annually).


----------



## GunnerJacket

Folks, let's close up the cross-border sidebar, please. We can accommodate that and other MLS chatter in another thread elsewhere if need be. Thanks.


----------



## bd popeye

Well now.. since I'm no true soccer fan and I just found out..I'd like to congratulate

*FC CINCINNATI*

..on being awarded an MLS franchise. I'm stoked...


----------



## Otto Racecar

pesto said:


> Hard to see why one would stay in Columbus if you have a clear option to move to Austin where there are NO other professional teams, a rich and growing city and a tailor-made demographic (hip, young, educated, techy, counterculture, etc).
> 
> Sure UT is king but no more so than Ohio St. is in Columbus. And college football and basketball have far fewer games than professional leagues do so there is less competition for the dollar.


I mean Columbus has a good history of supporting both international and domestic soccer in the US in spite of absentee ownership with little to no investment in the market since lamar hunt passed away. Austin not so much. The millennial demographics are almost identical to Austin, the education demographics exceeds Austin, and the current ownership killed all spanish language broadcasts and outreach when they purchased the team so I'm not certain if the latino demographic is what is being alluded to. Columbus's population is almost identical. Austin is clearly growing at an insane rate but Columbus is no slouch on growth as well. 

Columbus and the State of Ohio are suing the ownership currently as the crew are potentially in violation of state law due to their acceptance of public funds and then attempted movement without proper notice. We will see how that goes. Columbus has two ownership groups both with plans and financing for a downtown stadium if the current ownership is forced to sell. 

I can tell you this process has left many fans turned off of domestic soccer so no one has much interest in USL or NPSL. It's like telling the Reds fans thanks for helping build MLB but ownership bought the team to move it to Austin so you should be happy with a AAA or even single A team.


----------



## pesto

Otto Racecar said:


> I mean Columbus has a good history of supporting both international and domestic soccer in the US in spite of absentee ownership with little to no investment in the market since lamar hunt passed away. Austin not so much. The millennial demographics are almost identical to Austin, the education demographics exceeds Austin, and the current ownership killed all spanish language broadcasts and outreach when they purchased the team so I'm not certain if the latino demographic is what is being alluded to. Columbus's population is almost identical. Austin is clearly growing at an insane rate but Columbus is no slouch on growth as well.
> 
> Columbus and the State of Ohio are suing the ownership currently as the crew are potentially in violation of state law due to their acceptance of public funds and then attempted movement without proper notice. We will see how that goes. Columbus has two ownership groups both with plans and financing for a downtown stadium if the current ownership is forced to sell.
> 
> I can tell you this process has left many fans turned off of domestic soccer so no one has much interest in USL or NPSL. It's like telling the Reds fans thanks for helping build MLB but ownership bought the team to move it to Austin so you should be happy with a AAA or even single A team.


I'm sympathetic, but Columbus is just not cutting it financially. You can't appeal to their demographic statistics because reality supersedes that. And you make it sound like no one would have gone to Columbus in the first place if the city hadn't lured them with taxpayer money. Don't let the b/s and blustering mess up your view of reality.

Just as a side note, every city that loses a team blames the owner and praises the government for suing the team. Imagine how that makes anyone else that is thinking about in investing there feel about how his economic choices are suddenly limited.


----------



## GunnerJacket

There is a lot more to this than can and should be handled on our humble thread. If you're not familiar with the back story read Bill Archer's articles on the matter at BigSoccer.com. Based on all the evidence I've seen Precort is the worst owner in US sports at the moment and I have no respect for any decision that man makes. He has actively sabotaged the Crew since taking ownership while using MLS money to fund his Austin astroturf campaign. He is the serpent feeding Garber and MLS the apple, and I wish him nothing but abject failure.

I've no objection to Austin but Pecort is a liar who has created a loophole to get around the MLS expansion fee/process to get the market he wants at the expense of an established team and the very fan relationship upon which MLS' resurgence is based. He basically epitomizes one of the worst aspects of sports ownership, and this whole episode is easily MLS' worst moment.


----------



## slipperydog

PSV/MLS coming out blazing in the opening paragraph of their response to the Ohio/Columbus motion to dismiss their appeal.:









https://twitter.com/AEricksonCD


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> There is a lot more to this than can and should be handled on our humble thread. If you're not familiar with the back story read Bill Archer's articles on the matter at BigSoccer.com. Based on all the evidence I've seen Precort is the worst owner in US sports at the moment and I have no respect for any decision that man makes. He has actively sabotaged the Crew since taking ownership while using MLS money to fund his Austin astroturf campaign. He is the serpent feeding Garber and MLS the apple, and I wish him nothing but abject failure.
> 
> I've no objection to Austin but Pecort is a liar who has created a loophole to get around the MLS expansion fee/process to get the market he wants at the expense of an established team and the very fan relationship upon which MLS' resurgence is based. He basically epitomizes one of the worst aspects of sports ownership, and this whole episode is easily MLS' worst moment.


Just to repeat myself, almost those exact words are used for every owner who moves his team because he is not getting cooperation from the city, is losing money, etc. O'Malley, Kroenke, Davis, Spanos just in Southern California. I'm sure we could list 50 owners with like reputations.


----------



## slipperydog

*United Soccer League Announces New Mexico Club*



> ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. – The United Soccer League (USL) has announced its latest expansion club with USL New Mexico , headquartered in Albuquerque. USL New Mexico becomes the fifth new club set to join the league for the 2019 season and is the state’s first professional soccer franchise. The announcement took place today at the Fusion Forum and was attended by elected officials from across the state, as well as business and community leaders.
> 
> New Mexico joins teams in other thriving soccer markets in Texas, Alabama and Tennessee that will become part of the USL for its 2019 season. The state’s introduction to the league bolsters the USL’s growing footprint in the Southwest and adds another dynamic ownership group to the USL’s franchise portfolio.
> 
> “We are thrilled to welcome New Mexico to the USL family and strengthen the sport of soccer in the Southwest,” said USL CEO Alec Papadakis. “The exceptional members of USL New Mexico’s ownership group, led by Peter Trevisani, care deeply for soccer and New Mexico, and they are focused on contributing to its economy and youth in a positive way. I am confident this group, and fans across the state, will propel the USL’s latest club toward remarkable achievements on and off the field in the coming years.”


----------



## Nacre

Albuquerque is unfortunately in that uncomfortable zone with Louisville and Columbus where the city is too big for the minor leagues yet not quite big enough for the majors. 

Unlike Louisville and Columbus, though, there is absolutely no local competition at all in Albuquerque. It is only a two to three hour drive from Louisville and Columbus to either Indianapolis or Cincinnati which have all four major leagues between them. Meanwhile it is a six and a half hour drive from Albuquerque to Phoenix.

I don't think New Mexico is quite big enough for an MLS team, but it's unfortunate for both Albuquerque and MLS that is true. Add another 500,000 people to the Albuquerque metro area and it would be a great city for the league.


----------



## pesto

A rumor of an urban soccer stadium in Boston? Seems familiar somehow. All we need now is for the money, Kraft, politicians and local people to agree on the details.


----------



## BoulderGrad

The Game Is Up said:


> Are Revolution Planning Soccer Stadium Near Boston’s TD Garden?
> 
> https://nesn.com/2018/07/are-revolution-planning-to-build-soccer-stadium-in-downtown-boston/


Betteridge's law of headlines: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines

No...

Dude who's trying to build a stadium in Miami that is apparently never getting built and has nothing to do with the Revs says he thinks the Revs are trying to build a stadium?

Not exactly the most relevant source.

Where exactly could they build a soccer stadium "right next to TD garden"?

Spots to the north are crisscrossed by highway off ramps and train tracks. South, east, and west are all already heavily developed. What site are they talking about?


----------



## Guest

BoulderGrad said:


> Betteridge's law of headlines: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines
> 
> 
> Where exactly could they build a soccer stadium "right next to TD garden"?
> 
> Spots to the north are crisscrossed by highway off ramps and train tracks. South, east, and west are all already heavily developed. What site are they talking about?


Lechmere is what I've read.


----------



## slipperydog

Lights tests on Allianz Field









https://twitter.com/jeffrueter


----------



## slipperydog

Steven Streff
‏@streffsoccer

Tonight, @dcunited will be unveiling their new #USL team, *Loudoun United FC* at @vanishbeer brewery. The team logo will be officially unveiled as well. Speakers include Jason Levien, USL COO Justin Papadakis, LUFC COO Adam Behnke, and members of the LC board. #DCU


----------



## slipperydog

Better view of light tests









https://twitter.com/MNUFC


----------



## KLynch

RMB2007 said:


> More renders:
> 
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> https://twitter.com/loucityfc


Very nice. Looks pretty easily expandable in the one end zone if MLS is eyed. Also looks like the stand on the right could be expanded. 

I hope Baltimore gets something this nice for its USL stadium.


----------



## RMB2007

*Allianz Field*




























https://twitter.com/grossman


----------



## The Game Is Up

https://www.bostonglobe.com/busines...l-for-kraft/slYAx4tfAUuOQPTi4V56OJ/story.html



> The latest speculation centers on Widett Circle — a 20-acre food distribution center tucked between South Boston and the South End where planners envisioned a stadium for the 2024 Olympics — and an adjacent 18-acre public works and tow lot owned by the city.
> 
> The New Boston Food Market, a wholesalers cooperative that owns Widett Circle, last year put the site up for sale and will soon decide between a handful of bidders, sources familiar with the deal say. It’s not clear whether the Krafts are working with any of those potential buyers.
> 
> The tow lot, just to the north, has better access to the Fourth Street bridge and the nearby Broadway Red Line stop, which could make it more appealing for a stadium. But it’s also home to much of the city’s transportation and public works departments. The Walsh administration recently hired planning firm Utile to study how those services might be improved or operated somewhere else, with recommendations due later this year. That could free up the site for development. But in a recent interview, Walsh said there are no plans to turn the public works yard into a soccer palace.
> 
> “Not right now,” he said. “If we found the place, potentially, we would have to go through a community process and see what the community thinks about it.”


----------



## slipperydog

*Colorado Springs Switchbacks FC*

Colorado Springs’ City of Champions Project Moves Forward: 10,000-seat downtown stadium would become new home for Switchbacks










https://www.uslsoccer.com/news_article/show/936918


----------



## slipperydog

*Austin Bold FC*

Chris Bils
@ChrisBils
BREAKING: New USL franchise Austin Bold FC reveals brand, jerseys, coach and first three players. The team will have a Brazilian flavor 

Updated renderings of the 5,000-seat @USL stadium at @COTA: Bold Stadium #USLAustin

Kevin Lyttle
@klyttleAAS
Attn #MLS2ATX. First challenge issued from @AustinBoldFC. Owner Bobby Epstein tells @ChrisBils and I: "If The Domain Crew get their act together and are actually here next year, we want to play them ... and we'll kick their ass." @MLSinAustin


















https://twitter.com/ChrisBils









https://twitter.com/TheSmashSimmons


















https://twitter.com/ChrisBils


----------



## slipperydog

‏@AndyGlockner

POLL: What is "Austin Bold"?

A) Coffee brand
B) Pro soccer team
C) Strain of marijuana
D) Font type


----------



## BoulderGrad

slipperydog said:


> ‏@AndyGlockner
> 
> POLL: What is "Austin Bold"?
> 
> A) Coffee brand
> B) Pro soccer team
> C) Strain of marijuana
> D) Font type


E) All of the above?


----------



## MetroFK

slipperydog said:


> *Austin Bold FC*
> 
> 
> 
> Chris Bils
> 
> @ChrisBils
> 
> BREAKING: New USL franchise Austin Bold FC reveals brand, jerseys, coach and first three players. The team will have a Brazilian flavor
> 
> 
> 
> Updated renderings of the 5,000-seat @USL stadium at @COTA: Bold Stadium #USLAustin
> 
> 
> 
> Kevin Lyttle
> 
> @klyttleAAS
> 
> Attn #MLS2ATX. First challenge issued from @AustinBoldFC. Owner Bobby Epstein tells @ChrisBils and I: "If The Domain Crew get their act together and are actually here next year, we want to play them ... and we'll kick their ass." @MLSinAustin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
> https://twitter.com/ChrisBils
> 
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> 
> https://twitter.com/TheSmashSimmons
> 
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> https://twitter.com/ChrisBils




What do you mean as a Brazilian flavor?


----------



## tinyslam

What is with that crest? I think it is trying to fit too many letters/numbers/shapes into one design. The kits are nice though.


----------



## eric the midget

The B in their logo is pretty clear, but I'm having a hard time seeing anything else. What am I missing? Also is there any significance to the name Bold? If not it's not a very good name. The colors and jerseys are nice, though.


----------



## Lumbergo

slipperydog said:


> ‏@AndyGlockner
> 
> POLL: What is "Austin Bold"?
> 
> A) Coffee brand
> B) Pro soccer team
> C) Strain of marijuana
> D) Font type




Actually reminds of coffee more than anything else. Like, I could see a coffee shop being named Austin Bold. I don’t get the reason for the team name though - can any locals shine some light on this?


----------



## will101

slipperydog said:


> ‏@AndyGlockner
> 
> POLL: What is "Austin Bold"?
> 
> A) Coffee brand
> B) Pro soccer team
> C) Strain of marijuana
> D) Font type


I know there is an Austin font, with Austin Bold a variation. Is that what you were looking for?


----------



## The Game Is Up

Gallery: Save The Crew unveils potential stadium renderings at 10k Milestone Celebration

https://www.massivereport.com/2018/...nderings-at-10k-milestone-celebration-crew-sc


----------



## 61Spur62

As a premier league fan(Spurs is my team)i dont get this thing you do in the USA of leaving one,or both ends open,it just looks so bad..and in...erm...soccer especially,the ends are where your vocal hard core support tends to be..Dortmund and the soon to open Spurs end(will be) examples of this.
Why waste the space with,well nothing except a few seats and screens?


----------



## JJG

61Spur62 said:


> As a premier league fan(Spurs is my team)i dont get this thing you do in the USA of leaving one,or both ends open,it just looks so bad..and in...erm...soccer especially,the ends are where your vocal hard core support tends to be..Dortmund and the soon to open Spurs end(will be) examples of this.
> Why waste the space with,well nothing except a few seats and screens?


We've been over this several times before, but the idea is to leave space for future expansion and/or stages space for concerts.

That's pretty much how most football stadiums are built here above the high school level.


----------



## ElvisBC

RMB2007 said:


>


only football ignorant americans can design stadion like this :bash: americans will never figure out what football is, not in hundred years!!!


----------



## JJG

ElvisBC said:


> only football ignorant americans can design stadion like this :bash: americans will never figure out what football is, not in hundred years!!!


*sigh* -_-

What is it, _now_...?


----------



## pesto

The Game Is Up said:


> Gallery: Save The Crew unveils potential stadium renderings at 10k Milestone Celebration
> 
> https://www.massivereport.com/2018/...nderings-at-10k-milestone-celebration-crew-sc


I don't know if Columbus will keep the team, but I have to say that the stadium is a real knock-out. A very strong, modern look with a nice view and protection from the elements.


----------



## pesto

ElvisBC said:


> only football ignorant americans can design stadion like this :bash: americans will never figure out what football is, not in hundred years!!!


LOL. Fortunately, you have figured out what soccer was.


----------



## aquamaroon

ElvisBC said:


> only football ignorant americans can design stadion like this :bash: americans will never figure out what football is, not in hundred years!!!


Uh, I'm pretty sure we know what football is buddy hno:


















:troll:


----------



## GunnerJacket

ElvisBC said:


> only football ignorant americans can design stadion like this :bash: americans will never figure out what football is, not in hundred years!!!


There is no footballers gospel that mandates 4 different sides, a roof, no open end, etc. It's also patently unfair to judge each construct as if it should be worthy of a Premiership club, as most teams in the US and Canada have budgets smaller than many European 2nd or 3rd division teams. When it's your money feel free to make it how you think it should be, but as for everyone else please accept that each market has its unique attributes and development factors that will shape the design. It's that very thing which also prevents every stadium from looking exactly like every other stadium.

You may not have to like this fact but it's something I suggest you learn to accept, lest you spend your days wrapped in needless hate.

Cheers.


----------



## KingmanIII

ElvisBC said:


> only football ignorant americans can design stadion like this :bash: americans will never figure out what football is, not in hundred years!!!


----------



## TexasBoi

pesto said:


> Seems like a pretty broad generalization. I know the Texas sides are struggling, but the LA, NY and Chicago sides are among the most valuable in MLS. LAFC is in that group as well, whether Forbes shows it or not. All have huge Hispanic populations.
> 
> Riverside does not have its own team; it's really part of LA. SF/Oakland also does not have a team; but SJ has a very valuable one and they are heavily Hispanic.
> 
> Canada does not have huge immigration into the US. Mexico does. I'm not sure what the advantage of encouraging millions of Hispanics in the US to cling to their old connections to Mexico after they have become US residents. In fact having a US league to root for seems like a helpful bridge to learning American language and customs and meeting non-Hispanic fans.


From everything that I've read from both FC Dallas fans in Dallas and Dynamo fans in Houston is that they simply do not promote the teams in these markets. People barely even know they exist, at least in regards to FC Dallas in Dallas. I don't care what anyone says. Toyota Stadium in Frisco is a mistake. They would have better crowds even if the stadium was in Addison, let alone the city (where it should be). I have friends on FB from the Dallas area that refuses to drive 45 minutes to Frisco from Dallas and Grand Prairie to attend a game. Especially in the Texas heat.

I wonder what the LigaMx ratings are in both Dallas and Houston. I would imagine they would be quite high. Especially in Houston.


----------



## Guest

The entire south west is LigaMX country. You only have to see the Mexico support in Texas, Arizona, California (and lack of it in MLS), etc to realize MLS will always be up against it in these states. 

Dallas at least has an excuse with it's location. Houston has none. Perhaps Houston is a prime example of why a better located stadium in Dallas might not make anywhere near the kind of difference that a better situated stadium would have in, say, Boston.


----------



## aquamaroon

^^ Good point. The Dynamo couldn't ask for much more in a stadium: great (MLS) stadium in downtown and next to an existing sports park (The Astro's play right next to them.) And they still have attendance issues. You can lead a horse (or fan) to water but you can't make them drink it!


----------



## Lumbergo

aquamaroon said:


> You can lead a horse (or fan) to water but you can't make them drink it!


username checks out. :cheers:


----------



## MikeC9180

The Game Is Up said:


> Gallery: Save The Crew unveils potential stadium renderings at 10k Milestone Celebration
> 
> https://www.massivereport.com/2018/...nderings-at-10k-milestone-celebration-crew-sc


I have to say I really like this proposed stadium. As a Rugby fan (as well as soccer) it reminds me very much of a reconfigured Forsyth Barr Stadium in New Zealand. Internally at least. No bad thing imo.

I don't understand the hate from some of my european based bretheren regarding football / soccer stadium design in North America. It needs to be done in the style that suits their fans and their consumers. As long as they continue to grow the game, who cares?


In short; ignore the naysayers and you be you.


----------



## pesto

MikeC9180 said:


> I have to say I really like this proposed stadium. As a Rugby fan (as well as soccer) it reminds me very much of a reconfigured Forsyth Barr Stadium in New Zealand. Internally at least. No bad thing imo.
> 
> I don't understand the hate from some of my european based bretheren regarding football / soccer stadium design in North America. It needs to be done in the style that suits their fans and their consumers. As long as they continue to grow the game, who cares?
> 
> In short; ignore the naysayers and you be you.


Excellent advice. Unfortunately some who apparently spend a lot of time thinking about stadiums develop a set of personal "laws" about stadium design. This obscures the fact that building techniques improve and styles change over time and from location to location.


----------



## irving1903

TexasBoi said:


> From everything that I've read from both FC Dallas fans in Dallas and Dynamo fans in Houston is that they simply do not promote the teams in these markets. People barely even know they exist, at least in regards to FC Dallas in Dallas. I don't care what anyone says. Toyota Stadium in Frisco is a mistake. They would have better crowds even if the stadium was in Addison, let alone the city (where it should be). I have friends on FB from the Dallas area that refuses to drive 45 minutes to Frisco from Dallas and Grand Prairie to attend a game. Especially in the Texas heat.
> 
> I wonder what the LigaMx ratings are in both Dallas and Houston. I would imagine they would be quite high. Especially in Houston.


*raises hands as one who refuses to drive to frisco* - unless its playoffs

But I would rather drive to a bar uptown, deep ellum, las colinas, knox, hell i'd even drive to fw and west 7th to watch a game than drive to frisco. 

I love FCD. I do. I just hate to make that drive. So until they build 'Reunion Stadium' I'll be staying south of 635 during the regular season.


----------



## TexasBoi

5portsF4n said:


> The entire south west is LigaMX country. You only have to see the Mexico support in Texas, Arizona, California (and lack of it in MLS), etc to realize MLS will always be up against it in these states.
> 
> Dallas at least has an excuse with it's location. Houston has none. Perhaps Houston is a prime example of why a better located stadium in Dallas might not make anywhere near the kind of difference that a better situated stadium would have in, say, Boston.


You maybe are right about location maybe not making a difference. But I believe FC Dallas would have better support if they had a better location in the city. Dallas has always had better support for their teams than Houston. I also threw in the marketing aspect. You have people in Dallas that does not even know they exist. people think if you wear an advocare jersey in Dallas, they think you work for the company, according to a commenter on Reddit. FC Dallas doesn't market the team. But I've read this isn't an fc Dallas problem either. Many teams have bad marketing.


----------



## krnboy1009

61Spur62 said:


> As a premier league fan(Spurs is my team)i dont get this thing you do in the USA of leaving one,or both ends open,it just looks so bad..and in...erm...soccer especially,the ends are where your vocal hard core support tends to be..Dortmund and the soon to open Spurs end(will be) examples of this.
> Why waste the space with,well nothing except a few seats and screens?


They do this in Scotland all the time.


----------



## Benn

The interior webcam is now live for Allianz Field: https://www.mnufc.com/stadium/stream/interior


----------



## Crouchy

Nice developments in the MLS!


----------



## slipperydog

https://twitter.com/DanielMickPhoto


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1050789376769359873

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1050798844861124609
Deleted tweet from Taylor Twellman:


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^Some folks re-reporting its done: https://socceresq.com/2018/10/12/savedthecrew-deal-to-keep-team-in-columbus-largely-done/

A little confusion on the mechanics.

Seen a couple reports that say Columbus will be awarded an expansion franchise, but they get to keep all of the "old Columbus' players, name, and records. But that sounds like the team just staying put and changing owners?...


----------



## slipperydog

BoulderGrad said:


> ^^Some folks re-reporting its done: https://socceresq.com/2018/10/12/savedthecrew-deal-to-keep-team-in-columbus-largely-done/
> 
> A little confusion on the mechanics.
> 
> Seen a couple reports that say Columbus will be awarded an expansion franchise, but they get to keep all of the "old Columbus' players, name, and records. But that sounds like the team just staying put and changing owners?...


Yeah, well since MLS is single entity, it's really just owners buying into the league and then being responsible for operating the team in said market. So, this kind of seems like a Cleveland Browns/Winnipeg Jets situation, wherein the brand and team history are retained under new ownership.

Maybe this was a potential option in Precourt's scheme all along. Buy into a small market in order to gain access to a more lucrative market (Austin), and then if enough desperation sets in by the existing market, get paid out above market value by new local ownership.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Official announcements. Sounds like not a done deal yet, but they're far enough along to make an announcement about the group: http://www.espn.com/soccer/major-le...ions-with-mls-to-buy-columbus-crew-sc?src=com

And doesn't sound like any "expansion" nonsense with regards to the Crew, just a transfer of Precourt's rights to a new Austin franchise, and then the Crew's rights will transfer to Haslam and co. Figure we'll be seeing a stadium announcement soon too.


----------



## slipperydog

BoulderGrad said:


> And doesn't sound like any "expansion" nonsense with regards to the Crew, just a transfer of Precourt's rights to a new Austin franchise, and then the Crew's rights will transfer to Haslam and co. Figure we'll be seeing a stadium announcement soon too.


Yes, although I expect the transfer of Precourt's rights also come with a handsome fee from the Haslams. He's not doing this out of charity.

Also, I found this line hilarious: "MLS is committed to keeping the Crew in Columbus..." Oh yeah, is that so?


----------



## Guest

What a ******* disaster lol if MLS ends up with Austin and Columbus.

There's a very good reason why Precourt wanted to leave Columbus. It's a black hole for MLS. And heck, Austin could be too. And just about guarantees Sacramento has no chance of being in a 30 team league. Great work everyone!


----------



## eric the midget

I don't think Columbus is a black hole for MLS. They just need an owner who actually gives a damn. Their current stadium locations sucks and they do close to zero marketing for the team. Fix those two things and they'll be fine.


----------



## Guest

eric the midget said:


> I don't think Columbus is a black hole for MLS. They just need an owner who actually gives a damn. Their current stadium locations sucks and they do close to zero marketing for the team. Fix those two things and they'll be fine.


Did you see the statement from the Haslem's? They said they're going to hire people and take a backseat to concentrate on the Browns. Sounds like an owner that really gives a damn.


----------



## Nacre

5portsF4n said:


> What a ******* disaster lol if MLS ends up with Austin and Columbus.
> 
> There's a very good reason why Precourt wanted to leave Columbus. It's a black hole for MLS. And heck, Austin could be too. And just about guarantees Sacramento has no chance of being in a 30 team league. Great work everyone!


1) Ohio is a pretty big state overall, and needs a team.
2) All three Ohioan metropolises are roughly equal in size, and the other two already have multiple major league teams.
3) Columbus is in between Cleveland and Cincy, so it the best placed city in Ohio for a team for people to travel to on a weekend.

Columbus isn't a big market, but it's only a little smaller than Portland and hardly a black hole. As far as I can see from 2,500 miles away the problems are the stadium location and the lack of efficient transit access rather than the city itself.



5portsF4n said:


> Did you see the statement from the Haslem's? They said they're going to hire people and take a backseat to concentrate on the Browns. Sounds like an owner that really gives a damn.


That's what good owners do: hire other good people and delegate authority to them. Arthur Blank hired Darren Eales and Tata Martino and then let them get to work running the team in Atlanta.


----------



## will101

A look at the lighting of Allianz Field, from the interior. Courtesy of MNUFC.


----------



## eric the midget

5portsF4n said:


> Did you see the statement from the Haslem's? They said they're going to hire people and take a backseat to concentrate on the Browns. Sounds like an owner that really gives a damn.


That doesn't mean anything :dunno: Taking a back seat ≠ not giving a damn. It's very possible that he hires competent people to run things.


----------



## Guest

Nacre said:


> 1) Ohio is a pretty big state overall, and needs a team.
> 2) All three Ohioan metropolises are roughly equal in size, and the other two already have multiple major league teams.
> 3) Columbus is in between Cleveland and Cincy, so it the best placed city in Ohio for a team for people to travel to on a weekend.
> 
> Columbus isn't a big market, but it's only a little smaller than Portland and hardly a black hole. As far as I can see from 2,500 miles away the problems are the stadium location and the lack of efficient transit access rather than the city itself.


1. Ohio will have a team in a city that cares about its team, Cincy. 

2. Not sure I get your point. It is almost as if you dont seem to realize that Cincinnati FC exists, has a large fanbase, is building an sss in downtown, and starting in MLS shortly. 

3. People from Columbus dont travel to Mapfre, what makes you think out of towners do? Especially in Cincy where they have landed an MLS team.

Portland is a much bigger market than Columbus. Economy is 20th in the country compared to Columbus 29. 

TV market size Portland 22nd, Columbus 34.

And metropolitan area of Portland 2.5m compared to 2m.

People always overlook Portland as a great sports city and market cos they dont have NFL or MLB team. But it is a better market than a great many existing NFL/MLB markets, and would get amazing support in both leagues.


----------



## ielag

5portsF4n said:


> 1. Ohio will have a team in a city that cares about its team, Cincy.
> 
> 2. Not sure I get your point. It is almost as if you dont seem to realize that Cincinnati FC exists, has a large fanbase, is building an sss in downtown, and starting in MLS shortly.
> 
> 3. People from Columbus dont travel to Mapfre, what makes you think out of towners do? Especially in Cincy where they have landed an MLS team.
> 
> Portland is a much bigger market than Columbus. Economy is 20th in the country compared to Columbus 29.
> 
> TV market size Portland 22nd, Columbus 34.
> 
> And metropolitan area of Portland 2.5m compared to 2m.
> 
> People always overlook Portland as a great sports city and market cos they dont have NFL or MLB team. But it is a better market than a great many existing NFL/MLB markets, and would get amazing support in both leagues.


Who the hell is Cincinnati FC? Get their name right for crying out loud if you're going to brag about them.

You have a very loose definition of a much bigger market.

And this is gold coming from an SKC fan, who had beyond awful fan support before being bought by the current ownership when they were on the verge of moving to Tulsa. You of all people should know what new ownership can do to a fan base. Unless that is you had no idea the club existed before 2011.


----------



## Nacre

5portsF4n said:


> 1. Ohio will have a team in a city that cares about its team, Cincy.
> 
> 2. Not sure I get your point. It is almost as if you dont seem to realize that Cincinnati FC exists, has a large fanbase, is building an sss in downtown, and starting in MLS shortly.


While it's true that Cincy has great support, it isn't a much bigger market than Columbus and will have to compete with the Reds and Bengals for local corporate revenue.

I suppose that's a time scale issue. Right now Columbus has poor attendance and a sub-optimal stadium location. If that's all you care about then I can understand why you feel the team should be liquidated in favor of Cincinnati.



5portsF4n said:


> 3. People from Columbus dont travel to Mapfre, what makes you think out of towners do? Especially in Cincy where they have landed an MLS team.


There are lots of suburban stadiums in the US that do fine and get fans to travel. Right now MLS is a league mostly supported by urban hipsters, which makes a downtown stadium hugely important. But in other leagues it's not as important. I mean, the Diamondbacks want _out_ of their downtown stadium in favor of a suburban one, and the Braves recently made an urban to suburban switch.

If you think of where MLS should be in 30 years, with much more mainstream support, a suburban stadium with at least commuter rail access should work. But if you're looking at next year rather than a decade or three from now I understand why you feel a downtown stadium is mandatory.


----------



## slipperydog

Frankly, if we're talking markets for soccer, I don't find Columbus, Ohio any less useful than Sacramento, California. Not sure what the league has to gain by putting yet another club in California.

Columbus actually has some legitimate history with the sport in this country, and a new and improved venue in the Columbus area would be great for the national team too.


----------



## Guest

Nacre said:


> While it's true that Cincy has great support, it isn't a much bigger market than Columbus and will have to compete with the Reds and Bengals for local corporate revenue.
> 
> I suppose that's a time scale issue. Right now Columbus has poor attendance and a sub-optimal stadium location. If that's all you care about then I can understand why you feel the team should be liquidated in favor of Cincinnati.
> 
> 
> 
> There are lots of suburban stadiums in the US that do fine and get fans to travel. Right now MLS is a league mostly supported by urban hipsters, which makes a downtown stadium hugely important. But in other leagues it's not as important. I mean, the Diamondbacks want _out_ of their downtown stadium in favor of a suburban one, and the Braves recently made an urban to suburban switch.
> 
> If you think of where MLS should be in 30 years, with much more mainstream support, a suburban stadium with at least commuter rail access should work. But if you're looking at next year rather than a decade or three from now I understand why you feel a downtown stadium is mandatory.


They have competed with Bengals and Reds for several seasons now, and are only getting bigger. 

All I care about is getting deadbeat clubs out of this league. There are a lot of deadbeat clubs, to be sure, but Columbus ranks top, largely because of its tiny market and history of being poorly supported. Chicago is shit, no doubt, but it also has 10 million people, and with a better stadium location and rebrand could be a powerhouse club. Columbus will never be that.

Years from now, when the save the crew wankfest is over, theyll go back to being a club everyone shits on for having no support and dragging down MLS


----------



## Nacre

5portsF4n said:


> They have competed with Bengals and Reds for several seasons now, and are only getting bigger.


Again, though, you're only looking at general attendance. If you look at other sports leagues around the world matchday revenue is far behind corporate revenue and television revenue. If you were only to look at the number of ticket sales Dortmund would be ahead of Bayern, when in reality it is the other way around financially.



5portsF4n said:


> All I care about is getting deadbeat clubs out of this league.


Isn't ownership a big part of the reason some teams have struggled? You can argue that relocation is a form of relegating the badly performing teams, but the owners who created the mess in the first place get rewarded rather than punished with relocation.

We will have to agree to disagree on this.


----------



## eric the midget

The teams we should really be shitting on are teams like Dallas, Chicago, Houston etc. who have no reason for being as pathetic as they are. No offense to fans of those teams.


----------



## BoulderGrad

eric the midget said:


> The teams we should really be shitting on are teams like Dallas, Chicago, Houston etc. who have no reason for being as pathetic as they are. No offense to fans of those teams.


Teams like Dallas, Chicago, and Colorado (and maaaaybe Philly) are hampered by having built their stadiums on the cheap and in the middle of nowhere on cheap land. All 3-4 are pretty well stuck with that situation for a decade or two to come too. That really cuts into access for games, fan experience, and overall impression of the club. 

Houston built a pretty flashy, beautiful stadium, with all the bells and whistles, and right in the center of town on a light rail line. They really have no excuse to not make a splash in Houston.

I would imagine the main detail left for the Columbus transfer will be finalizing the details of the new downtown stadium. With the "yuppification" of American cities and MLS fan bases, it would be an important piece to returning the Crew to being one of the class of the league.


----------



## Otto Racecar

5portsF4n said:


> They have competed with Bengals and Reds for several seasons now, and are only getting bigger.
> 
> All I care about is getting deadbeat clubs out of this league. There are a lot of deadbeat clubs, to be sure, but Columbus ranks top, largely because of its tiny market and history of being poorly supported. Chicago is shit, no doubt, but it also has 10 million people, and with a better stadium location and rebrand could be a powerhouse club. Columbus will never be that.
> 
> Years from now, when the save the crew wankfest is over, theyll go back to being a club everyone shits on for having no support and dragging down MLS


I'm not sure where to even start. Columbus has been going through a population and economic boom for years. It's projected to be the largest Ohio metro in the next 5 years as it's already the largest city. It's CSA is larger then Kansas City's. So hardly a tiny city as you make it out to be.

The Crew averaged over 17k literally two years ago and according to Forbes had higher revenue then 7 other teams that year. Columbus has never had the worst attendance in MLS in their history. In fact their worst attended season had higher average attendance then 10 seasons of attendance average in Kansas City. If anyone was a blackhole it was KC in cavernous Arrowhead and in a minor league baseball stadium. Instead Columbus was the first team in MLS due to season ticket support, had the first soccer specific stadium in MLS, first dedicated training facilities in MLS, and has been a fortress for USMNT. If anything Columbus fans supported since day one when a lot of other cities couldn't have cared less. 

KC was able to turn a disaster around with new ownership and a suburban stadium. I feel very confident that Columbus with new ownership with minority ownership based in Columbus that has more money then Precourt could even imagine, downtown stadium, and even a minimal amount of marketing could easily add a couple of thousand people on average to 2016's attendance average. If that was the case then they would have higher attendance then SKC. That's the benchmark if I'm understanding your logic. 

Haslem is great friends with the head of the Columbus partnership. He has been trying to build a joint crew/ browns training facility for a few years now in which the browns would have an area for their preseason training camp and the crew would have year round facilities. There are two other local ownership groups that have been competing to purchase the team as well. MLS went with the NFL face and local minority ownership who have been associated with the Crew in some form since 1996. 

The stadium's preferred spot is next to Nationwide arena and Huntington Park in Columbus's arena district also very close to where there is a significant amount of new or proposed development in the Franklinton neighborhood adjacent to Downtown.

I also want to point out that Crew and FC Cincy fans are excited for the rivalry. I don't think you can really compare the two situations. Cincy's situation is probably closer to when the Crew played at Ohio Stadium in their first couple of years and were getting 25-30k at times. Cincy's only a a couple of years removed from 5- 10 dollar student tickets on a on campus stadium. The Crew's cheapest ticket is over $35 this year. Still not bad but not comparable. Cincy's owners are local and market like crazy. Precourt slashed the marketing budget by over 80% in the last two years.


----------



## Master011

Ten Biggest stadiums in MLS


----------



## The Game Is Up

New Soccer Stadium On Forefront Of OKC's MAPS 4 Ideas

http://www.news9.com/story/39290411/new-soccer-stadium-on-forefront-of-okcs-maps-4-ideas


----------



## slipperydog

The Columbus-Austin news makes this next and final round of MLS expansion for the foreseeable future pretty interesting. If Austin indeed gets an expansion team, that allows just one more spot, since it's hard to see MLS jumping to 30 teams any time soon. They will likely sit and develop the league at 28 clubs (14 in each conference makes scheduling easier too).

So that final spot could come down to a four-way battle between the ownership groups of *St. Louis, Detroit, Phoenix, and Sacramento* (with *San Diego* a distant fifth). It should be fascinating. Given the population and demographic dynamics in the US, coupled with their ownership group and stadium plan, I'd personally favor expanding to Phoenix, although the league seems to love St. Louis because of their soccer "tradition".


----------



## Franchise646

slipperydog said:


> The Columbus-Austin news makes this next and final round of MLS expansion for the foreseeable future pretty interesting. If Austin indeed gets an expansion team, that allows just one more spot, since it's hard to see MLS jumping to 30 teams any time soon. They will likely sit and develop the league at 28 clubs (14 in each conference makes scheduling easier too).
> 
> So that final spot could come down to a four-way battle between the ownership groups of *St. Louis, Detroit, Phoenix, and Sacramento* (with *San Diego* a distant fifth). It should be fascinating. Given the population and demographic dynamics in the US, coupled with their ownership group and stadium plan, I'd personally favor expanding to Phoenix, although the league seems to love St. Louis because of their soccer "tradition".


I would leave Detroit in a far 4th as it looks like it will be a mostly be A team in the west. 

I would guess:
1.Phenix
2.St. Louis
3. Sacramento 






4. Detroit






5. San Diego


----------



## willygtoc

*Allianz Stadium.*

The team has an average attendance of 24,000. Why did they do a stadium under 20,000 capacity?


----------



## Guest

stadium was planned before they ever played in mls. 20k is perfect. but can be expanded to 25k for $30-40 million if deemed necessary.


----------



## Chevy114

Am I only the only one not impressed with the lights on the side of this place? The one in Germany at least covers everything, but this one is like 2 strains for lights and the rest is transparent.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Austin Bold FC breaks ground on new soccer stadium at COTA

https://www.kxan.com/news/local/aus...ound-on-new-soccer-stadium-at-cota/1546767161


----------



## Guest

Chevy114 said:


> Am I only the only one not impressed with the lights on the side of this place? The one in Germany at least covers everything, but this one is like 2 strains for lights and the rest is transparent.


Bayern Munich =/= Minnesota United.

As far as I see it, the exterior is what makes this stadium. Interior is nothing special, and doesn't even come close to Banc of California.


----------



## master_klon

I don't think the below image of Minnesota's stadium has been posted here yet. It is a shame they didn't extend the roof with translucent material to give more coverage over the seats, while still ensuring maximum sunlight on the pitch.










https://www.instagram.com/p/BpTKsIPAvi4/?taken-by=minnesotas_xi


----------



## slipperydog

5portsF4n said:


> Bayern Munich =/= Minnesota United.
> 
> As far as I see it, the exterior is what makes this stadium. Interior is nothing special, and doesn't even come close to Banc of California.


Banc of California has set the standard at $350m and incredible interiors (the entry atrium with its gold plated elevators alone makes your jaw drop), so that's a little unfair, but Allianz does appear rather simple and utilitarian on the inside. The thing with Banc of California is the weight and polish of its structure. Of the new stadiums coming online, Miami has the best chance to rival or surpass the Banc, because I don't see Nashville or Cincinnati approaching the standard LAFC has set.


----------



## pesto

slipperydog said:


> Frankly, if we're talking markets for soccer, I don't find Columbus, Ohio any less useful than Sacramento, California. Not sure what the league has to gain by putting yet another club in California.
> 
> Columbus actually has some legitimate history with the sport in this country, and a new and improved venue in the Columbus area would be great for the national team too.


Yes, but the correct answer is NEITHER Columbus nor Sacramento unless you are looking to eventually split into a major and minor league.

Every time a new city is proposed, think "who in Europe or China (or 98 percent of the US for that matter) is going to watch a match because this team is in it?". If the answer is "no one" then dump them.


----------



## WesTexas

how long can Columbus, RSL, Colorado and FC Dallas continue to go before they modify their stadium to look more like these new stadiums?


----------



## GunnerJacket

pesto said:


> Yes, but the correct answer is NEITHER Columbus nor Sacramento unless you are looking to eventually split into a major and minor league.
> 
> Every time a new city is proposed, think "who is Europe or China (or 98 percent of the US for that matter) is going to watch a match because this team is in it". If the answer is "no one" then dump them.


The answer to your questions is addressed via teams already in the league: NY, LA, DC, Seattle, Atlanta, and maybe Miami. Others may climb their way to that status. (Dallas?) Otherwise none of the other teams, let alone candidates for expansion, has the global cachet to which you're alluding based on city name alone. 

What's left to increase the appeal to global markets is an overall improvement in the calibre of the league, which will take time and more TV money. The latter is only going to come about by appealing to more US fans, and THEY care about other cities. After all, big teams don't become big by simply beating up on each other, but rather they need a full league that warrants a trophy in order to stay big in the public eye.

So MLS isn't looking for more giants beyond Miami. They're now looking for the filler that will raise their brand locally and provide more fodder for the big brand names.

Says I, anyway.



WesTexas said:


> how long can Columbus, RSL, Colorado and FC Dallas continue to go before they modify their stadium to look more like these new stadiums?


 Dallas is a lot closer with their recent modifications and I trust RSL to pull the trigger when they feel it's financially necessary. Both of those teams have been investing in academies and training grounds and RSL in particular has been fine at the gate, so for now it's not the venues holding them back. (For FCD it's more location)

Columbus will get something new as part of the new ownership, for surely MLS won't approve the sale without a financial commitment to such.

Colorado and the NER will act when it makes financial sense for the owners. They're not averse to the matter but they also know/believe that their markets aren't strong enough to yield a return on a major investment. Kroenke, for instance, could probably renovate DSG to Banc of California Stadium standards yet only see an additional 2-3k per game, and not much of that would be from high rollers. So both those team's owners are waiting for MLS to be even bigger commodities before they invest further. 

That leaves Chicago. The fire will move on the matter when it's clear they're the drag on the league and likely have no other option. With PSV likely to be removed from Columbus that will leave Hauptman (sp?) as the new Worst Owner in MLS, as his rifts with fans and supporters groups wouldv'e been THE soap opera for the year if not for #SaveTheCrew. Part of the deal is obviously the location and lease, so any changes will be harder to come by vs Columbus, meaning they're even less likely to appear soon.


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> The answer to your questions is addressed via teams already in the league: NY, LA, DC, Seattle, Atlanta, and maybe Miami. Others may climb their way to that status. (Dallas?) Otherwise none of the other teams, let alone candidates for expansion, has the global cachet to which you're alluding based on city name alone.
> 
> What's left to increase the appeal to global markets is an overall improvement in the calibre of the league, which will take time and more TV money. The latter is only going to come about by appealing to more US fans, and THEY care about other cities. After all, big teams don't become big by simply beating up on each other, but rather they need a full league that warrants a trophy in order to stay big in the public eye.
> 
> So MLS isn't looking for more giants beyond Miami. They're now looking for the filler that will raise their brand locally and provide more fodder for the big brand names.
> 
> Says I, anyway.


I have nothing against smaller market teams IF they come with a commitment to spend 100’s of millions in salaries, stadium and PR for as long as it takes to beat the best in EPL. There are enough teams already who will be permanent doormats and you know that even among the big cities and big spenders many are going to fail.

So you want maybe 40 or 50 teams? In effect the top 10 or so will subsidize the others instead of building the funds needed to compete worldwide. That not only hurts the clubs seriously interested in bettering the league but discourages anyone from putting capital in MLS and major stars from playing in the US. “Hey, Ronaldo, better look sharp! The big swing through Columbus, Cincy, Nashville, St. Loo and KC is coming up. Won’t your buds in Spain, the UK and France be jealous!!”


----------



## eric the midget

pesto said:


> Every time a new city is proposed, think "who in Europe or China (or 98 percent of the US for that matter) is going to watch a match because this team is in it?". If the answer is "no one" then dump them.


Sorry to be blunt, but this is just idiotic. You're essentially advocating that the MLS only have like 6 teams.


----------



## eric the midget

GunnerJacket said:


> The answer to your questions is addressed via teams already in the league: NY, LA, DC, Seattle, Atlanta, and maybe Miami. Others may climb their way to that status. (Dallas?) Otherwise none of the other teams, let alone candidates for expansion, has the global cachet to which you're alluding based on city name alone.
> 
> What's left to increase the appeal to global markets is an overall improvement in the calibre of the league, which will take time and more TV money. The latter is only going to come about by appealing to more US fans, and THEY care about other cities. After all, big teams don't become big by simply beating up on each other, but rather they need a full league that warrants a trophy in order to stay big in the public eye.
> 
> So MLS isn't looking for more giants beyond Miami. They're now looking for the filler that will raise their brand locally and provide more fodder for the big brand names.
> 
> Says I, anyway.
> 
> Dallas is a lot closer with their recent modifications and I trust RSL to pull the trigger when they feel it's financially necessary. Both of those teams have been investing in academies and training grounds and RSL in particular has been fine at the gate, so for now it's not the venues holding them back. (For FCD it's more location)
> 
> Columbus will get something new as part of the new ownership, for surely MLS won't approve the sale without a financial commitment to such.
> 
> Colorado and the NER will act when it makes financial sense for the owners. They're not averse to the matter but they also know/believe that their markets aren't strong enough to yield a return on a major investment. Kroenke, for instance, could probably renovate DSG to Banc of California Stadium standards yet only see an additional 2-3k per game, and not much of that would be from high rollers. So both those team's owners are waiting for MLS to be even bigger commodities before they invest further.
> 
> That leaves Chicago. The fire will move on the matter when it's clear they're the drag on the league and likely have no other option. With PSV likely to be removed from Columbus that will leave Hauptman (sp?) as the new Worst Owner in MLS, as his rifts with fans and supporters groups wouldv'e been THE soap opera for the year if not for #SaveTheCrew. Part of the deal is obviously the location and lease, so any changes will be harder to come by vs Columbus, meaning they're even less likely to appear soon.


Well said :clap:


----------



## aquamaroon

Yeah I mean La Liga needs its Villareal and Leganes, and the Premier League needs its Burnleys and Huddersfield. Don't see why MLS doesn't need the occasional Sacramento and Columbus.


----------



## pesto

eric the midget said:


> Sorry to be blunt, but this is just idiotic. You're essentially advocating that the MLS only have like 6 teams.


No, about 20 would do adequately. But it's a function of how many investors want to step-up and commit to the money needed to either: 

- make the team competitive on a world-wide basis; or,
- make payments to MLS so you can make money from playing your half-ass team against those teams


----------



## pesto

slipperydog said:


> I tend to agree. Once this next round of expansion is done, it's about providing a product that is appealing. From a city name recognition standpoint, I'm sure the city of Dortmund wasn't all dissimilar to Columbus at the beginning. But now people from all over the world tune in to watch Dortmund, and it's because they have a fantastic culture and product. No reason that can't happen in smaller markets in the US.


Not really. The metro that Dortmund is in is the largest in Germany and has several top level teams. Dortmund is well-known throughout Germany and has had enormous success for 100 years. It could hardly be less similar to Columbus, which is without a major pro team (football, baseball or basketball) and still not even close to Cleveland and Cincinnati in national repute.

And it is almost certain it won't happen in the US unless someone brings huge money and a long-term commitment to keep spending while losing money. If Sactown or Columbus are looking to invest 300M plus then I'm with you.


----------



## GunnerJacket

pesto said:


> Not really. The metro that Dortmund is in is the largest in Germany and has several top level teams. Dortmund is well-known throughout Germany and has had enormous success for 100 years. It could hardly be less similar to Columbus, which is without a major pro team (football, baseball or basketball) and still not even close to Cleveland and Cincinnati in national repute.


Dortmund as a club is 109 years old. The Columbus Crew? Not so much. Dortmund has had several generations to develop a following, and they're playing the national sport on a continent that breathes soccer, and they have international competitions via UEFA that help raise the appeal and financial value of their product. MLS teams like Columbus, meanwhile, are just now surpassing their first generation of existence and fighting for relevance in the most crowded sports landscape on the planet.

Tomorrow is MLS' penultimate regular season matchday. It has to go up against the NFL because their broadcast partners are obligated to fill today's air time with college football. But wait, there's more! Tomorrow also features a World Series game, the NBA, and the NHL. In fact, LA will host a game in all 5 major sports tomorrow, counting MLS! 

Which means there is NO TEAM or market in MLS that could create the silver bullet impact we're seeking. What can happen is the continued slow-burn growth that has taken pro soccer from decided fringe sport to one with a bona fide place on the national radar, and given teams budgets that endow stability to play at a top-flight level.

Aspirations for matching the calibre of play and product as the giant European leagues is great, but there is no easy path or shortcut to reaching something that took Europe half a century to achieve. 



pesto said:


> Or Salt Lake or Orlando or Colorado or Minnesota or Nashville or Detroit or St. Louis, etc. I'd like to see teams that do not bring big money or national reputation or highly talented leadership escorted to the door. They've had their time in the sun and now it's time to show what you can do or call it a day.


Keeping the sports relevancy in the national landscape means not dismissing existing teams or turning away markets out of hand. Eventually there will be a promotion and relegation system that will give you what you want, but getting there means first identifying those markets capable of riding out the financial storms and create a lasting connection with local fans. We need to reach a point where local sports fans recognize MLS teams by default, where even if they're not paying to be in the stands they're still behind the local team and aren't putting the sport down as communist. (See: Coulter, Ann)

As I've said many times, we're literally less than 12 years removed from when most MLS players needed 2nd jobs or a roommate to make ends meet. Now we're at a point where most make 6 figures. 12 years ago we had fewer teams and fewer games on TV making poor ratings. Now we have more teams, more games on TV and the ratings though still humble continue to improve. Apart from Columbus and their soap opera season we're looking at a larger league but one where still everyone has an average attendance above the LEAGUE average from 2003. 

Maybe rather than lamenting the length of the journey ahead we should reflect on how far we've come.


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> Dortmund as a club is 109 years old. The Columbus Crew? Not so much. Dortmund has had several generations to develop a following, and they're playing the national sport on a continent that breathes soccer, and they have international competitions via UEFA that help raise the appeal and financial value of their product. MLS teams like Columbus, meanwhile, are just now surpassing their first generation of existence and fighting for relevance in the most crowded sports landscape on the planet.
> 
> Tomorrow is MLS' penultimate regular season matchday. It has to go up against the NFL because their broadcast partners are obligated to fill today's air time with college football. But wait, there's more! Tomorrow also features a World Series game, the NBA, and the NHL. In fact, LA will host a game in all 5 major sports tomorrow, counting MLS!
> 
> Which means there is NO TEAM or market in MLS that could create the silver bullet impact we're seeking. What can happen is the continued slow-burn growth that has taken pro soccer from decided fringe sport to one with a bona fide place on the national radar, and given teams budgets that endow stability to play at a top-flight level.
> 
> Aspirations for matching the calibre of play and product as the giant European leagues is great, but there is no easy path or shortcut to reaching something that took Europe half a century to achieve.
> 
> Keeping the sports relevancy in the national landscape means not dismissing existing teams or turning away markets out of hand. Eventually there will be a promotion and relegation system that will give you what you want, but getting there means first identifying those markets capable of riding out the financial storms and create a lasting connection with local fans. We need to reach a point where local sports fans recognize MLS teams by default, where even if they're not paying to be in the stands they're still behind the local team and aren't putting the sport down as communist. (See: Coulter, Ann)
> 
> As I've said many times, we're literally less than 12 years removed from when most MLS players needed 2nd jobs or a roommate to make ends meet. Now we're at a point where most make 6 figures. 12 years ago we had fewer teams and fewer games on TV making poor ratings. Now we have more teams, more games on TV and the ratings though still humble continue to improve. Apart from Columbus and their soap opera season we're looking at a larger league but one where still everyone has an average attendance above the LEAGUE average from 2003.
> 
> Maybe rather than lamenting the length of the journey ahead we should reflect on how far we've come.


First, it’s great that we can discuss this civilly. I basically agree with all of your points.

I am responding to the claim that Columbus is like Dortmund. Dortumund isn’t and never was like Columbus. It is the largest city in the Ruhr which is the largest metro area in Germany. The area generally is like LA or the “Randstad” in Holland: dense in pockets and continuous in housing and industrial activity over a large area. If you were forming a soccer league it would be a founding member, no questions asked. By contrast, Columbus is the third city in Ohio. It belongs with Sacramento, etc., in a minor league. 

If Columbus wants to BECOME like Dortmund they need to show not just money but experienced managerial talent, a developing worldwide marketing organization, 50k stadium, ventures and tie-ins with European and Asian sides, etc. If these are credible, I am 100 percent on-board. In fact, I would be pulling strongly for their success because that raises all boats in MLS.

The exact path is hard to predict but MLS needs to find a mechanism to push those teams that do not choose to participate on a high level into a lower earnings and decision making level. Handling this process is the chief challenge facing MLS since it dovetails with competing effectively in the world market. Expansion adds to this problem in my view, although I assume that MLS already has some form of relegation or its monetary equivalent in mind.


----------



## slipperydog

Give it a little time.


----------



## pesto

slipperydog said:


> Give it a little time.


Love your "Zen" responses. :lol:

Sure, the Packers are a fabulous example of a small city team making it big by having intense and loyal fans. They even persevered through two decades when the Pack were the laughing-stock of the league.

But the Packers are the only game in town. Not true for Columbus where the Crew are not even a blip on OSU's dominance.

And, again, when I see the money, the talent, the will to be big someday, then I will believe. You don't just grow; you grow because someone MAKES you grow.


----------



## RMB2007

*Allianz Field*










https://twitter.com/kylehenning










https://twitter.com/ChrisWright










https://twitter.com/tjgulen


----------



## ielag

Really like seating color pattern


----------



## GunnerJacket

Very nice. I imagine this will be on par with SKC's home in terms of the calibre of venue. True it won't endow larger crowds right away but it should be routinely filled and provide a great, intimate setting for the game while allowing the team to control the scheduling and the revenues. Good for the Loons!

I hope before too long the US hosts a FIFA event like the U20 WC that actually utilizes some of these MLS venues.


----------



## aquamaroon

^^ Excellent idea Gunner! A U20 World Cup would be a PERFECT use for this latest generation of MLS soccer stadiums :cheers:.


----------



## The Game Is Up

https://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2018/10/soccer_franchise_to_make_atwoo.html



> The Michigan Bucks of the USL League Two, formerly known as the Premier Development League, will move from Pontiac to Flint beginning in 2019 and call Atwood Stadium its new home grounds.
> 
> Team and local officials gathered Tuesday afternoon on the campus of Kettering University for the announcement. Atwood Stadium is managed and operated by the university.
> 
> "This is a fantastic day for soccer. This is a fantastic day for soccer in Michigan and especially in the city of Flint," said Dan Duggan, team owner.
> 
> Duggan was a founder of the Bucks in 1996 which began playing in Saginaw as the Mid-Michigan Bucks prior to relocating in Metro Detroit in 2003 and becoming the Michigan Bucks and then onto Pontiac where it played at Ultimate Soccer Arena.
> 
> One of the selling points when conversations began between Duggan and Costa Papista, the former Flint Firebirds team president, was Atwood Stadium that can house approximately 10,000 spectators compared to 2,000 at the Pontiac facility.
> 
> Duggan called Atwood a "first-rate facility" while touting the city's offerings.


----------



## slipperydog

https://twitter.com/MNUFC


----------



## carnifex2005

Another nice panoramic shot of Allianz Field...


----------



## jaamz

Beautiful stadium...Is Allianz Field The only MLS stadium with a raised pitch?


----------



## tinyslam

Beautiful and ready just in time for the playoffs.....


----------



## Guest

tinyslam said:


> Beautiful and ready just in time for the playoffs.....


Way ahead of the schedule for MNU's first playoff appearance in 2027.


----------



## BoulderGrad

5portsF4n said:


> Way ahead of the schedule for MNU's first playoff appearance in 2027.


Ooof... put some lidocaine on that burn...


----------



## Guest

hngcm said:


> San Diego's SoccerCity proposition failed tremendously (29% yes)
> 
> All but eliminates San Diego from an expansion team


Which is very good news for a team that has been doing things the right way, Sacramento. SD wouldve all but killed the Republic bid.


----------



## JJG

hngcm said:


> San Diego's SoccerCity proposition failed tremendously (29% yes)
> 
> All but eliminates San Diego from an expansion team


Does it, though? Was pretty sure a team could play in SDSU's new stadium.


----------



## slipperydog

JJG said:


> Does it, though? Was pretty sure a team could play in SDSU's new stadium.


It doesn't kill it, but it makes it much more unlikely than if it had passed. Generally MLS wants its teams to play in soccer specific stadiums and own their stadiums.

In any case, I see Phoenix getting the last expansion spot over either Sacramento and San Diego.


----------



## pesto

5portsF4n said:


> Which is very good news for a team that has been doing things the right way, Sacramento. SD wouldve all but killed the Republic bid.


And what is wrong with killing the Sactown bid? 

Notice what's happening in Europe? The true elite are forming a cross border super league while sides like Everton and the Spurs are relegated to third class status by not even being invited as 2nd tier members. The idea is to make the soccer elite worth as much as NFL teams.

One major aim: to take the US market. Meanwhile MLS is showcasing Portland vs. Sacramento. You might as well put on infomercials.

Let's see if the 2026 proposal for a single N. American league also includes a first division and a second division. A move in the right direction.


----------



## ielag

pesto said:


> And what is wrong with killing the Sactown bid?
> 
> Notice what's happening in Europe? The true elite are forming a cross border super league while sides like Everton and the Spurs are relegated to third class status by not even being invited as 2nd tier members. The idea is to make the soccer elite worth as much as NFL teams.
> 
> One major aim: to take the US market. Meanwhile MLS is showcasing Portland vs. Sacramento. You might as well put on infomercials.
> 
> Let's see if the 2026 proposal for a single N. American league also includes a first division and a second division. A move in the right direction.


The Super League in Europe won't happen. FIFA has already said they'll ban any player from playing in the World Cup if they play in that proposed league. That North American league has zero chance of happening, that's a pipe dream. There's no way the USSF or FMF would approve it happening.


But I have no problem with San Diego getting in over Sacramento. SD has the highest MLS TV ratings for any city w/o a team now that Miami has one. We'll see if the Soccer City people or other owners attach themselves to SDSU now. Sacramento is still looking for their big money investor too.

And besides, MLS isn't stopping at 28 teams. They'll probably announce in the next year they're expanding to 30 or even 32 teams.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Association football is unique in that the structure is set up so that even the big clubs can't ignore completely the grassroots of the game. Doing away with pro/rel or even radically modifying it would be too disruptive to the game. I don't think the likes of Betis, Aston Villa, Fiorentina, etc., would be content to be downgraded to the AAA or G-League-type level. 

It's one thing to be wallowing in the lower divisions of a nation but it's another to never have the chance to go the highest division. That's the definition of a monopoly, which would raise the ire of local governments there.

Yes, there are many nations where a couple of clubs have the most realistic chance to win a title but that's a function of the country size, level of support, organization, youth teams, etc.. But when you start messing with the countries with greater populations that's when you start getting into major problems. So, say, a super league of 16 teams is proposed and Country A gets 3, Country B gets 2, Country C gets 4 and the remainder is scattered among 20 countries. There's no way any team can cover the entire country. Even three would be impossible to cover. There would pressure to "relocate" or "add" teams to larger countries at the expense of smaller countries. And we're not even talking about a large country with natural resources like Russia, who might want to "buy in" to this league at some point in the future.

If you're a Benfica, Ajax, Celtic or any of the so-called minnow clubs that's not something you would support.

Closer to home, I don't see the Mexican league going away, which would have to happen for a North American league to happen, even though the Mexican expat market would at least make for an interesting argument. I think it's much more economical to continue to rake in the TV dollars flowing in from the expats than to give up their competitive advantage at the club level. They'd be lucky to get 6 teams in a NA Super League due to the market disadvantages.


----------



## pesto

ielag said:


> The Super League in Europe won't happen. FIFA has already said they'll ban any player from playing in the World Cup if they play in that proposed league. That North American league has zero chance of happening, that's a pipe dream. There's no way the USSF or FMF would approve it happening.
> 
> 
> But I have no problem with San Diego getting in over Sacramento. SD has the highest MLS TV ratings for any city w/o a team now that Miami has one. We'll see if the Soccer City people or other owners attach themselves to SDSU now. Sacramento is still looking for their big money investor too.
> 
> And besides, MLS isn't stopping at 28 teams. They'll probably announce in the next year they're expanding to 30 or even 32 teams.


That's just Infantino trying to start negotiations. The 20 or so sides in the Super League are worth 30-40B and their owners maybe 200B (probably much more). They are respectful of him but no one will stand in the way of maximizing revenues. It's just a matter of negotiating how to split it up. Each time a Super League is proposed a bit more revenue is transferred to the top clubs since they are out there building brands. 

The US and Asia are up for grabs and the world elites are going after them. The specific form in which those markets are exploited is what is being negotiated now, with the Super clubs pointing out that they hold the brands, skills and resources.


----------



## pesto

The Game Is Up said:


> Association football is unique in that the structure is set up so that even the big clubs can't ignore completely the grassroots of the game. Doing away with pro/rel or even radically modifying it would be too disruptive to the game. I don't think the likes of Betis, Aston Villa, Fiorentina, etc., would be content to be downgraded to the AAA or G-League-type level.
> 
> It's one thing to be wallowing in the lower divisions of a nation but it's another to never have the chance to go the highest division. That's the definition of a monopoly, which would raise the ire of local governments there.
> 
> Yes, there are many nations where a couple of clubs have the most realistic chance to win a title but that's a function of the country size, level of support, organization, youth teams, etc.. But when you start messing with the countries with greater populations that's when you start getting into major problems. So, say, a super league of 16 teams is proposed and Country A gets 3, Country B gets 2, Country C gets 4 and the remainder is scattered among 20 countries. There's no way any team can cover the entire country. Even three would be impossible to cover. There would pressure to "relocate" or "add" teams to larger countries at the expense of smaller countries. And we're not even talking about a large country with natural resources like Russia, who might want to "buy in" to this league at some point in the future.
> 
> If you're a Benfica, Ajax, Celtic or any of the so-called minnow clubs that's not something you would support.
> 
> Closer to home, I don't see the Mexican league going away, which would have to happen for a North American league to happen, even though the Mexican expat market would at least make for an interesting argument. I think it's much more economical to continue to rake in the TV dollars flowing in from the expats than to give up their competitive advantage at the club level. They'd be lucky to get 6 teams in a NA Super League due to the market disadvantages.


Actually, that's a cartel, which is a form of oligopoly. The local leagues are already cartels and are permitted under EU rules (although this is really a farce, driven by sheer political power rather than any true legal rules).

The Super League isn't that revolutionary; it's a riff on the existing champions league. It just acknowledges that some sides are pouring money into building international soccer and they expect to be compensated.

Russia is like the US and China; when they show they have international marketing muscle they can try to join or threaten to work with those who were left-out. No free rides.

Benfica, Ajax, etc., are free to play US sides, each other, whoever they want. And if they can get people to watch, that will impress the Super League. Or they can join in a new Super League. I'm not going to predict how this plays out but I think teams will quickly understand who are the players and who the benchwarmers. It mostly has to do with winning and brand development.


----------



## master_klon

Good luck to the owners who think a Super League could be successful. :lol:


----------



## pesto

master_klon said:


> Good luck to the owners who think a Super League could be successful. :lol:


Why do you say that? The owners in general are people who are smart or ruthless enough to find investment opportunities and overcome difficulties. American, Russian, Middle Eastern, European, Asian. They know soccer, international business, deal-making, cartel structure and operations and PR. They have dinner with heads of state. 

Why would you figure that they aren't going to find a way to capitalize on the value they are bringing to the European national leagues? Seriously, where is Spain's La Liga without RM, Barca and Atletico? No other side is worth as much as the average MLS soccer team nor are they growing in value. The top 3 are skyrocketing.

Bayern Munich in Germany; Juventus in Italy; PSG in France. MU, MC, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea in the UK. There are others who may choose to compete for worldclass status so there is room to join in. Sounds like a good system.


----------



## GunnerJacket

UEFA Super League discussion in this thread ends here. Feel free to make a new thread if so desired.


----------



## pesto

So if MLS can justify the addition of new investors in mid-sized cities as real economic drivers for the league's future, great bring them in. But if they are just another set of old duffers hoping to be big wheels in a city of no national repute, I would hope they are just being prepared for a second division role. That's where they belong and that's where MLS should be putting them.


----------



## Rover030

^^ To me it seems like your plans for MLS are completely opposite to what MLS has been doing in the past years. I mean, if you want an internationally successful league, you can't have well-known teams such as LA Galaxy not even make the play-offs. With European football it's super easy to choose a team that's always going to be successful, and I think that's a huge factor to football's success around the world.

On the other hand I have doubts about the international potential of MLS anyway. They will never reach the European level, simply because they can't participate in the CL.

Maybe MLS's strategy is the best for growing the popularity of the sport itself in North America, and that will help them more in the long run?

I also wonder why for MLS the "ideal" number of teams would be lower in the long run than for the other major leagues. Or do you think those have too many teams as well?


----------



## pesto

Rover030 said:


> ^^ To me it seems like your plans for MLS are completely opposite to what MLS has been doing in the past years. I mean, if you want an internationally successful league, you can't have well-known teams such as LA Galaxy not even make the play-offs. With European football it's super easy to choose a team that's always going to be successful, and I think that's a huge factor to football's success around the world.
> 
> On the other hand I have doubts about the international potential of MLS anyway. They will never reach the European level, simply because they can't participate in the CL.
> 
> Maybe MLS's strategy is the best for growing the popularity of the sport itself in North America, and that will help them more in the long run?
> 
> I also wonder why for MLS the "ideal" number of teams would be lower in the long run than for the other major leagues. Or do you think those have too many teams as well?


MLS (and every club in the world) recognizes that the NFL model is the best one around. It offers security and reward to those who spend the money to develop the brand and the rising costs of fielding a winning team plus profit sharing with the players puts pressure on the slackers. It’s not a coincidence that “Champions” or “Super” leagues are being proposed regularly in soccer; it's aimed at getting rid of the teams with no ambition.

MLS should develop an elite group who are given security that they will reap reward and are not risking their money to build up the brand worldwide. Or MLS could just stay minor league and lose its investors. You can go either way.

Now is a very good time to build brands in Asia since the economies are booming and fans have in general not settled on a team to support. All the better if Europe insists on internal blood-letting in the soccer world over how much to hand-over to the old duffers in small towns who add nothing to the league.

Otherwise, I don’t want to get into Europe or other American sports since they are off-topic here. But anyone not stuck in the 19th century can see where things are going.


----------



## Nacre

Rover030 said:


> I also wonder why for MLS the "ideal" number of teams would be lower in the long run than for the other major leagues. Or do you think those have too many teams as well?


Part of the challenge in forecasting what MLS will do is that the league has so little television revenue. The matchday revenue is competitive with very high quality leagues like Serie A and Ligue 1. But the television revenue is bad and as you say CONCACAF champions league is a non-entity compared to UEFA's champions league.

It is easy for MLS to expand now because there is so little television revenue to share. Owners don't care about splitting up the television revenue into smaller shares because it not a critical part of their business. In UEFA it is the opposite, with the top clubs caring more about television revenue than fans buying tickets. If that changes it will become harder to add more teams to MLS.

But it also depends on whether they go with a single league or multiple tiers with promotion and relegation like the J-League. MLS 1 and MLS 2 is the only way the USA and Canada will ever have promotion and relegation.



pesto said:


> MLS (and every club in the world) recognizes that the NFL model is the best one around


. . . for maximizing television revenue for the NFL's owners. It's pretty awful for fans and cities.


----------



## pesto

Nacre said:


> Part of the challenge in forecasting what MLS will do is that the league has so little television revenue. The matchday revenue is competitive with very high quality leagues like Serie A and Ligue 1. But the television revenue is bad and as you say CONCACAF champions league is a non-entity compared to UEFA's champions league.
> 
> It is easy for MLS to expand now because there is so little television revenue to share. Owners don't care about splitting up the television revenue into smaller shares because it not a critical part of their business. In UEFA it is the opposite, with the top clubs caring more about television revenue than fans buying tickets. If that changes it will become harder to add more teams to MLS.
> 
> But it also depends on whether they go with a single league or multiple tiers with promotion and relegation like the J-League. MLS 1 and MLS 2 is the only way the USA and Canada will ever have promotion and relegation.
> 
> 
> 
> . . . for maximizing television revenue for the NFL's owners. It's pretty awful for fans and cities.


You have to stop thinking like a socialist. :lol:

In a free market, people vote with their pocketbooks. What is good for the teams' revenue is good for the fans enjoyment. In fact, they are nearly the same thing. "Television revenue" isn't just something that is made up: it consists of FANS watching games. Zero fans watching = zero revenues. 

There are many MORE fans than 30, 20 or 10 years ago and they are willing to pay more since the NFL (and other leagues) worked out local and national packages. And this occurred during a time when media viewing choices went from about 5 to about 500. 

Awful for cities? There are a dozen cities waiting to pounce whenever an NFL (or MLB or NBA) team becomes available! The Oakland A's have gotten interest from San Jose, Fremont, Sacramento, Portland, Montreal, Mexico City, Monterrey, Nashville and probably others I've never heard of.

Or how about London? Two Mayors, two Chancellors and multiple PM's have expressed interest and delight in the NFL coming to town. It's part of being a great sports city (their words).


----------



## GunnerJacket

The NFL model is a) dependent on a completely free, independent development system for talent, which is vital considering the volume of players involved, and b) has the luxury of being the only major league on the planet for American football apart from that same developmental system - college. As such few/no other leagues can really apply the same approach, least of all soccer. 

Further, the league has reached a ceiling whereby their model has essentially maxed out media revenues unless they can strengthen domestic broadcast access in foreign markets, hence their efforts to go global. Yet here again it highlights the league's unique position in the sports landscape because for the NFL there is no direct peer competition or minor markets that would be passed over or cut as a result of globalization. 

Bringing this back to MLS, our domestic league is doing fine and need simply keep with their strategy. That some venues and markets absorbed over time haven't become sporting giants isn't a slight on them but rather evidence of the league's efforts and learning curve acquired over it's first 2 decades of existence. They're working to increase national appeal, they're working to support talent development, they're working to build bridges with the global soccer community, and they're supporting efforts that grow the minor league system. Given their limited resources and some diverging leadership they're managing quite well. Abide the course, at least through this expansion period until the new TV contracts come in 2022.


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> The NFL model is a) dependent on a completely free, independent development system for talent, which is vital considering the volume of players involved, and b) has the luxury of being the only major league on the planet for American football apart from that same developmental system - college. As such few/no other leagues can really apply the same approach, least of all soccer.
> 
> Further, the league has reached a ceiling whereby their model has essentially maxed out media revenues unless they can strengthen domestic broadcast access in foreign markets, hence their efforts to go global. Yet here again it highlights the league's unique position in the sports landscape because for the NFL there is no direct peer competition or minor markets that would be passed over or cut as a result of globalization.
> 
> Bringing this back to MLS, our domestic league is doing fine and need simply keep with their strategy. That some venues and markets absorbed over time haven't become sporting giants isn't a slight on them but rather evidence of the league's efforts and learning curve acquired over it's first 2 decades of existence. They're working to increase national appeal, they're working to support talent development, they're working to build bridges with the global soccer community, and they're supporting efforts that grow the minor league system. Given their limited resources and some diverging leadership they're managing quite well. Abide the course, at least through this expansion period until the new TV contracts come in 2022.


You seem to have forgotten about the growth opportunities. Right now there is an opportunity to grab 5B fans in Asia, say, 2B of whom have rapidly growing income. The issue isn't whether to go after them; the issue is how to structure the effort.

MLS can play in this game or they can watch the super leagues triple their values while MLS focuses on $2 Brat Tuesdays in Cincinnati. Their choice. But they will lose investors who prefer to invest the money to join the big leagues. And they will lose the US market as well; even US fans will end up being fans of Chelsea, Arsenal, Barcelona, etc.


----------



## Nacre

pesto said:


> In a free market, people vote with their pocketbooks.


This is true, but it is not the whole truth.

The existing major leagues have been given billions of dollars in public subsidies (stadium construction, subsidized rent, free use of local police forces to secure events, tax exemptions, etc) that are not available to rival leagues.

If government involvement in sports is socialist and un-American, and we should let the market resolve which teams deserve consumption, then why are our major league teams handed so much subsidy from the public purse? Calling the current situation a "free market" is a bad joke.


----------



## pesto

Nacre said:


> This is true, but it is not the whole truth.
> 
> The existing major leagues have been given billions of dollars in public subsidies (stadium construction, subsidized rent, free use of local police forces to secure events, tax exemptions, etc) that are not available to rival leagues.
> 
> If government involvement in sports is socialist and un-American, and we should let the market resolve which teams deserve consumption, then why are our major league teams handed so much subsidy from the public purse? Calling the current situation a "free market" is a bad joke.


Cities are not national governments that are free to print money, levy income taxes, distribute welfare or exert influence outside their borders. They only have the powers the local state or county give them.

They are independent actors, and enter into arrangements with private institutions when they think it is for the public benefit. Seattle and Boeing; SF and many tech companies; 1000 small southern and midwest cities and the local factory, assembly plant, ag facility. They bring lots of money and jobs and are worth attracting. I can't think of a city that hasn't done this with some business or another. Large cities have whole departments running these operations. 

I have no problem with this UNLESS it is accompanied by corruption. In sports, this is typically caused by unions and construction companies who want to use the public's desire for a professional team as a way to rip-off enormous profits for themselves. If the city does a legit cost/benefit analysis and the voters support it, then entering into arrangements whereby they subsidize a stadium and in return a team brings the town tax monies and national notoriety is OK with me.

Otherwise, it is still not socialism: it's bribery and corruption.


----------



## willygtoc

*FC Cincinnati* unveils its Major League Soccer Logo, Marks & Colors.










https://www.fccincinnati.com/post/2018/11/12/fcc-unveils-its-major-league-soccer-logo-marks-colors


----------



## JJG

willygtoc said:


> *FC Cincinnati* unveils its Major League Soccer Logo, Marks & Colors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.fccincinnati.com/post/2018/11/12/fcc-unveils-its-major-league-soccer-logo-marks-colors


Same colors from their USL run.

I love the crest, but apparently, many don't... I don't understand why.


----------



## pesto

JJG said:


> Same colors from their USL run.
> 
> I love the crest, but apparently, many don't... I don't understand why.


Because it has "Cincinnati" on it? :lol:

Sorry, just a joke.


----------



## eric the midget

As an FCC fan, I don't hate it, but I don't love it either. It's fairly generic and uninspiring, and there's nothing really "Cincinnati" about it. You could slap pretty much any team name on there and nobody would know any different. The re-branding is especially disappointing after Miami knocked it out of the park with their branding reveal. Like I said, it's not the worst, but it's nothing special. It will do.


----------



## GunnerJacket

eric the midget said:


> As an FCC fan, I don't hate it, but I don't love it either. It's fairly generic and uninspiring, and there's nothing really "Cincinnati" about it. You could slap pretty much any team name on there and nobody would know any different. The re-branding is especially disappointing after Miami knocked it out of the park with their branding reveal. Like I said, it's not the worst, but it's nothing special. It will do.


Seems to be the consensus on soccer boards, as well. It follows the trend of several clubs using a simpler, almost cartoonish style, likely with the hope that the simplicity would lend itself to easier brand recognition and reproduction across merchandise. I still loathe my Gunners "dumbed down" cannon crest, for instance.

I think another thing that's at play here is having not 1 but 2 bright colors. This is pretty rare and it overpowers the crest, for me. Makes me wish they'd found a complementary 3rd color that could've harmonized these two and also minimized the amount of each in the image. As someone posted on another board this looks like a sign for a gas station rather than a football team. 

Hopefully once all the swag comes out it plays well. Maybe a slight modification in the future will leave us all pleasantly surprised. Until then, good luck to FCC and their fans.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Soccer stadium site pitch irks South Boston residents
Evictions, traffic lead concerns

http://www.bostonherald.com/busines...tadium_site_pitch_irks_south_boston_residents


----------



## pesto

The Game Is Up said:


> Soccer stadium site pitch irks South Boston residents
> Evictions, traffic lead concerns
> 
> http://www.bostonherald.com/busines...tadium_site_pitch_irks_south_boston_residents


You know you're in trouble when you defend the need for a stadium by saying it might help stop flooding in the area if done right. :lol:


----------



## Guest

Lightshow at SKC Timbers game (much better than usual phone nonsense) [posted by Joe Kivett]:


----------



## carnifex2005

Render of Westhills Stadium for Pacific FC (Victoria) of the Canadian Premier League after the renovations are done. Capacity will be 6,000 including standing room only section.










https://canpl.ca/article/pacific-fc...and-beauty-into-westhills-stadium-renovations


----------



## GunnerJacket

Not bad given the setting and especially the budget. Wish they could do more to enclose the venue, maybe through some form of architectural screening, but as I've said before beggars cant be choosers. 

Hope they and the league prosper.


----------



## RMB2007

*Allianz Field*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1070072269886504960

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1070004611212283904


----------



## slipperydog

*Hartford Athletic*









https://twitter.com/hfdathletic


----------



## Nacre

carnifex2005 said:


> Render of Westhills Stadium for Pacific FC (Victoria) of the Canadian Premier League after the renovations are done. Capacity will be 6,000 including standing room only section.


Victoria is a great city, but I worry about the location of this stadium. Will people be willing to drive 20-25 minutes from Victoria to Langford to watch minor league soccer? I hope so, but I suspect most Canadians would rather go to an ice hockey match at their downtown arena.


----------



## ElvisBC

RMB2007 said:


> *Allianz Field*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1070072269886504960
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1070004611212283904



americans and stadiums ..... hno: ..... build brand new stadium with the roof and then leave one section open and exposed to rain/snow/whatever else .... simply brainless!


----------



## Guest

ElvisBC said:


> americans and stadiums ..... hno: ..... build brand new stadium with the roof and then leave one section open and exposed to rain/snow/whatever else .... simply brainless!


That’s the end that would be expanded. Much easier to expand if you dont have to knock down a roof. And considering Portland has expanded its stadium within a decade of entering MLS, it makes sense to consider such a possibility ahead of time. Obviously, it saves money now and down the track.

It’s also where the open bar is.


----------



## Lumbergo

RMB2007 said:


> *Allianz Field*
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1070072269886504960
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1070004611212283904


I don't know why but pictures from twitter never show up for me - could you please link to them?


----------



## Guest

https://mobile.twitter.com/andygred...percity.com/showthread.php?t=647092&page=1644

https://mobile.twitter.com/UofStTho...percity.com/showthread.php?t=647092&page=1644

There you go. Theyre videos. I dunno what u see on your screen, but if you see any part of the twitter embed, u can click on it and itll take you to original post


----------



## ielag

To nobody's surprise

@PaulTenorio
Garber said league will introduce idea of growing beyond 28 teams. I've heard 32 teams has definitely been discussed informally within and around the league.


----------



## aquamaroon

Rapid expansion is always a good idea for sports leagues looking to solidify themselves financially!


----------



## GunnerJacket

There's possible cause for it in soccer but that's a topic for another thread, so let's not let that sidebar fester right now. Thanks.


----------



## ielag

aquamaroon said:


> Rapid expansion is always a good idea for sports leagues looking to solidify themselves financially!


Huh? Expansion has been an overwhelming success for MLS. The league is already solidified financially anyways and it's all about growth now. 32 sounds like the number they've always been wanting to max out at.


----------



## ielag

"In addition to saying that MLS must become a selling league, commissioner Don Garber also mentioned a potential new stadium in Boston a few times during Friday’s State of the League address. My understanding is that *if* and when the Kraft family get a new home built for the Revolution in Beantown, the club will be rebranded."

https://sports.yahoo.com/mcintyres-23-thoughts-galaxy-closing-jason-kreis-sources-190904500.html


----------



## slipperydog

ielag said:


> "In addition to saying that MLS must become a selling league, commissioner Don Garber also mentioned a potential new stadium in Boston a few times during Friday’s State of the League address. My understanding is that *if* and when the Kraft family get a new home built for the Revolution in Beantown, the club will be rebranded."


The Revolution name is fantastic, is geographically relevant, and is an original name dating back to the beginning of the league. Sure a logo rebrand may be in order, but the name should remain.

Something along the lines of Charlotte perhaps...


----------



## Guest

ielag said:


> To nobody's surprise
> 
> @PaulTenorio
> Garber said league will introduce idea of growing beyond 28 teams. I've heard 32 teams has definitely been discussed informally within and around the league.


Yes, and it’s very easy to see how we’re getting to 30.

27 Austin
28 St Louis

These are pretty much locked in right now. 

29 Phoenix, another lock considering what they’ve done.

Then you have a pick of Sacramento (which just needs a big pocket owner), Detroit for team 30.

But for teams 31 and 32 I think it’s too early to tell. There could be surprises that come up suddenly after seemingly going nowhere like St Louis. One of those could be San Diego. Or Tampa. Or Carolina. Or LV.


----------



## Guest

ielag said:


> "In addition to saying that MLS must become a selling league, commissioner Don Garber also mentioned a potential new stadium in Boston a few times during Friday’s State of the League address. My understanding is that *if* and when the Kraft family get a new home built for the Revolution in Beantown, the club will be rebranded."
> 
> https://sports.yahoo.com/mcintyres-23-thoughts-galaxy-closing-jason-kreis-sources-190904500.html





slipperydog said:


> The Revolution name is fantastic, is geographically relevant, and is an original name dating back to the beginning of the league. Sure a logo rebrand may be in order, but the name should remain.
> 
> Something along the lines of Charlotte perhaps...


I think the rebrand will have more to do with geography than nicknames. Guarantee you it’ll be Boston, not NE. 

That said, theyve seen that hipsterism works, and Revolution is no hipster name. Dont discount Boston City FC or something to that effect and a major reworking of color scheme.


----------



## Djjuice

With MLS pretty much a lock to expand to 30 teams, do you guys think they will add one or possibly two more teams to the playoffs for each conference? I'm sure the owners will be pushing for it if they aren't already.


----------



## Guest

Djjuice said:


> With MLS pretty much a lock to expand to 30 teams, do you guys think they will add one or possibly two more teams to the playoffs for each conference? I'm sure the owners will be pushing for it if they aren't already.


With it going to single tie elimination, I wouldnt be against the NBA format. However, to differentiate, id have it like this:

8 teams per conference, 16 total in playoffs

1st week:

1st seed vs 4th, 2nd vs 3rd = winner advances, loser hosts winner of elimination finals

elimination finals: 5th vs 8th, 6th vs 7th = winner advances

2nd week (assuming highest seeds won in first week above):

1st hosts 5th, 2nd hosts 6th = winners advance to final against other conference finalist.

host of final decided by whoever had more points in regular season

This format rewards regular season, makes it harder on low seeds, and rewards seeds 1-4.


----------



## Lumbergo

5portsF4n said:


> https://mobile.twitter.com/andygred...percity.com/showthread.php?t=647092&page=1644
> 
> https://mobile.twitter.com/UofStTho...percity.com/showthread.php?t=647092&page=1644
> 
> There you go. Theyre videos. I dunno what u see on your screen, but if you see any part of the twitter embed, u can click on it and itll take you to original post


Thanks.

Here is what it looks like for me anytime someone links to twitter. I've checked my ad blockers and twitter isn't listed as a blocked site - so I don't know. as long as someone links to the original tweet I can view it on twitter:


----------



## RMB2007

*Louisville City FC*




























https://twitter.com/loucityfc/status/1073296454289145857


----------



## Chevy114

Are they for sure in MLS or is this just a hope?


----------



## BoulderGrad

Chevy114 said:


> Are they for sure in MLS or is this just a hope?


Just a hope. Stadium only seats 10,000. Louisville is in the conversation for MLS expansion, but a pretty big long shot. There's plenty of other markets in the running that are much more desirable. But never say never. Dunno that anyone 5 years ago saw Cincy making an entrance like they did.


----------



## Nacre

My hope for MLS is that it expands to 60 teams with two levels: MLS 1 (20 teams) and MLS 2 East and West (20 teams each) much like 1. Bundesliga and 2. Bundesliga. That would allow for promotion and relegation while still giving owners some financial protection. But more importantly it would allow North American cities with 1 million population to get teams: Hartford, Louisville, Albuquerque, etc.


----------



## pesto

Nacre said:


> My hope for MLS is that it expands to 60 teams with two levels: MLS 1 (20 teams) and MLS 2 East and West (20 teams each) much like 1. Bundesliga and 2. Bundesliga. That would allow for promotion and relegation while still giving owners some financial protection. But more importantly it would allow North American cities with 1 million population to get teams: Hartford, Louisville, Albuquerque, etc.


A couple of thoughts to think about, some more likely than others.

This could well force the league to focus every year on bailing out 10-20 clubs with bad stadiums, bad finances, bad owners, desires to move, legal issues, etc., instead of focusing on expanding the international market.

It could discourage large investors from coming into the league since if they have a bad year during the building process, they play Fargo and Boonerville and lose all chance of attracting top players or sponsors.

Larger clubs could be incented to leave and form their own league, perhaps with some top Mexican teams. Then MLS and the new league would struggle against each other while the Europeans and emergent Chinese take over the trillion dollar Asian, Middle East and African soccer markets.

Relegation is for the time when the local land-holder or brewer set up teams for his own purposes. Instead of relegation what you need is "bankruptcy and disappear". The demand for soccer in the US is insufficient to support 60 teams at any reasonable level of profit when 40 are run by incompetent buffoons.


----------



## Nacre

The point is that with only two leagues and 60 teams franchises wouldn't end up being located in Fargo, but rather large cities capable of supporting a major league team.

The 60th smallest metro area in the USA alone is Albuquerque with 913,000 people. Buffalo is the 50th with 1,137,000 people and they have done alright supporting not one but two major league teams.

The current North American model of a 30-32 team league has left a lot of cities capable of supporting a major league team on the outside looking in: cities like Louisville, Raleigh, Providence, etc.


----------



## pesto

Nacre said:


> The point is that with only two leagues and 60 teams franchises wouldn't end up being located in Fargo, but rather large cities capable of supporting a major league team.
> 
> The 60th smallest metro area in the USA alone is Albuquerque with 913,000 people. Buffalo is the 50th with 1,137,000 people and they have done alright supporting not one but two major league teams.
> 
> The current North American model of a 30-32 team league has left a lot of cities capable of supporting a major league team on the outside looking in: cities like Louisville, Raleigh, Providence, etc.


Fargo = Albuquerque = Fresno = etc. They all scream "minor league".

When you're a child tinker-toys are fine; but when you grow up you put aside childish ways and think like an investor. Make the cut-off at 4M population or a commitment to 500M investment in product and I'm on-board.

There is nothing wrong with minor leagues; they are needed for soccer just as they are for baseball. But nobody should have a problem separating their essentially training-oriented function from the major league function of showing the best talent in the world.


----------



## Nacre

pesto said:


> When you're a child tinker-toys are fine; but when you grow up you put aside childish ways and think like an investor. Make the cut-off at 4M population or a commitment to 500M investment in product and I'm on-board.


There are only 14 total metro areas in the US with 4 million population. Cities like Denver, Minneapolis, San Diego, and Seattle would be eliminated by your criteria, yet they are clearly capable of supporting major league teams.


----------



## Chevy114

I thought the issue was talent? 60 teams in America isn't the same as 60 in Europe right?


----------



## pesto

Nacre said:


> There are only 14 total metro areas in the US with 4 million population. Cities like Denver, Minneapolis, San Diego, and Seattle would be eliminated by your criteria, yet they are clearly capable of supporting major league teams.


They would be eliminated based on population alone but if some investor thinks they pull more than their weight in national or international appeal, he can show his 500M and get a chance to take a shot. 

Fourteen is about right. "Major league" loses its meaning when it's full of teams that are focused on Tuesday Night Brat specials. Don't get me wrong, it's a great thing, very homey and American and I hope it lasts forever. But it's not major league.


----------



## Guest

http://worldsoccertalk.com/2018/12/17/top-45-attended-soccer-games-us-soil-2018/

Top 45 attended games in 2018 in US. 

1. Liverpool vs. Manchester United – 7/28 – ICC – Michigan Stadium – 101,254
2. Mexico vs. Wales – 5/28 – Friendly – Rose Bowl – 82,345
3. Mexico vs. Croatia – 3/27 – Friendly – AT&T Stadium – 79,128
4. Atlanta United vs. Portland Timbers – 12/8 – MLS – Mercedes-Benz Stadium – 73,019
5. MLS All-Stars vs. Juventus – 8/1 – Exhibition – Mercedes-Benz Stadium – 72,371
6. Atlanta United vs. Seattle Sounders – 7/15 – MLS – Mercedes-Benz Stadium – 72,243
7. Atlanta United vs. DC United – 3/11 – MLS – Mercedes-Benz Stadium – 72,035
8. Atlanta United vs. Real Salt Lake – 9/22 – MLS – Mercedes-Benz Stadium – 72,017
9. Atlanta United vs. Orlando City – 6/30 – MLS – Mercedes-Benz Stadium – 71,932
10. Atlanta United vs. Chicago Fire – 10/21 – MLS – Mercedes-Benz Stadium – 71,812
11. Real Madrid vs. Juventus – 8/4 – ICC – FedEx Field – 71,597
12. Atlanta United vs. New York City – 11/11 – MLS – Mercedes-Benz Stadium – 70,526
13. Atlanta United vs. New York Red Bulls – 11/25 – MLS – Mercedes-Benz Stadium – 70,016
14. Mexico vs. Iceland – 3/23 – Friendly – Levi’s Stadium – 68,917
15. Barcelona vs. Tottenham Hotspur – 7/28 – ICC – Rose Bowl – 66,805
16. Manchester United vs. Real Madrid – 7/31 – ICC – Hard Rock Stadium – 64,141
17. Mexico vs. Uruguay – 9/7 – Friendly – NRG Stadium – 60,617
18. Liverpool vs. Borussia Dortmund – 7/22 – ICC – Bank of America Stadium – 55,447
19. Barcelona vs. AS Roma – 7/31 – ICC – AT&T Stadium – 54,726
20. Liverpool vs. Manchester City – 7/25 – ICC – MetLife Stadium – 52,635
21. Minnesota United vs. LA Galaxy – 10/21 – MLS – TCF Bank Stadium – 52,242
22. Real Madrid vs. AS Roma – 8/7 – ICC – MetLife Stadium – 51,528
23. AC Milan vs. Barcelona – 8/4 – ICC – Levi’s Stadium – 51,391
24. San Jose Earthquakes vs. LA Galaxy – 6/30 – MLS – Stanford Stadium – 50,743
25. Seattle Sounders vs. Portland Timbers – 6/30 – MLS – CenturyLink Field – 47,521
26. Peru vs. Croatia – 3/23 – Friendly – Hard Rock Stadium – 46,893
27. Atlanta United vs. Columbus Crew – 8/18 – MLS – Mercedes-Benz Stadium – 45,303
28. Atlanta United vs. LAFC – 4/7 – MLS – Mercedes-Benz Stadium – 45,207
29. Atlanta United vs. Toronto FC – 8/4 – MLS – Mercedes-Benz Stadium – 45,191
30. Atlanta United vs. Philadelphia Union – 6/2 – MLS – Mercedes-Benz Stadium – 45,140
31. Atlanta United vs. New England Revolution – 10/6 – MLS – Mercedes-Benz Stadium – 45,122
32. Atlanta United vs. Portland Timbers – 6/23 – MLS – Mercedes-Benz Stadium – 45,116
33. Atlanta United vs. New York Red Bulls – 5/20 – MLS – Mercedes-Benz Stadium – 45,089
34. Atlanta United vs. DC United – 7/21 – MLS – Mercedes-Benz Stadium – 45,087
35. Atlanta United vs. Montreal Impact – 4/28 – MLS – Mercedes-Benz Stadium – 45,039
36. Atlanta United vs. Vancouver Whitecaps – 3/17 – MLS – Mercedes-Benz Stadium – 45,003
37. Atlanta United vs. New York City – 4/15 – MLS – Mercedes-Benz Stadium – 45,001
38. Atlanta United vs. Sporting Kansas City – 5/9 – MLS – Mercedes-Benz Stadium – 44,696
39. Seattle Sounders vs. LA Galaxy – 8/18 – MLS – CenturyLink Field – 44,213
40. Seattle Sounders vs. Chivas Guadalajara – 3/7 – CCL – CenturyLink Field – 42,885
41. Seattle Sounders vs. San Jose Earthquakes – 10/28 – MLS – CenturyLink Field – 42,617
42. Seattle Sounders vs. Vancouver Whitecaps – 7/21 – MLS – CenturyLink Field – 41,849
43. Atlanta United vs. Chicago Fire – 6/20 – Open Cup – Mercedes-Benz Stadium – 41,012
44. USA vs. Mexico – 9/11 – Friendly – Nissan Stadium – 40,194
45. Seattle Sounders vs. LAFC – 3/4 – MLS – CenturyLink Field – 40,070


----------



## tinyslam

And to think I was at 21 of those games. What a year.


----------



## pesto

So sticking strictly to the list (and w/o referencing media audience or MLS):

Top 20: ALL feature foreign teams or Atlanta. All of them.
The Rest: 22 of 25 feature foreign teams, Atlanta or LA.

Big attendance seems connected to having teams with big names playing and/or hosting in large stadiums in high profile cities.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Let's try this:

As always sidebars are permitted provided they're constructive, civil, and not taking away from the main topic. If personal debates regresses to exchanges of "_Yeah, but I say different_!" then I'm going to nip that in the bud. Take those to PM.


----------



## pesto

Fair enough. I tend to abstract from particular situations and look at the bigger picture that made that situation happen. I'm just trying to call them as I see them. 

No grudges against anybody; but no respect for plans or policies that make no sense.


----------



## Guest

Best thing about this stadium, exterior light test. from zeropoint2.


----------



## Chevy114

Am I the only one that thinks these lights look cheap and the opposite of cool?


----------



## The Game Is Up

> The developer of the proposed Boise Sports Park has signed an agreement to bring a professional soccer team to the capital city, though it's not a done deal.
> 
> Chris Schoen signed the deal with the United Soccer League this week to build up a minor league franchise in Boise.
> 
> But the future of the team ultimately depends on whether or not the Boise Sports Park gets built, which would also be home to the Boise Hawks minor league baseball team.
> 
> The stadium was originally slated to be built on the edges of downtown, but Schoen’s company chose to move it somewhere in the West End last summer.


http://www.boisestatepublicradio.or...boise-only-if-new-stadium-gets-built#stream/0


----------



## The Game Is Up

> A proposal to build an 18,000-seat soccer stadium in Concord near the downtown BART station will return to the City Council on Tuesday.
> 
> The City Council initially was to consider on Jan. 8 whether to sign an "initial exclusive negotiating agreement" with Walnut Creek-based Hall Equities Group LLC for the proposed mixed-use site with a stadium, hotels, a convention center apartments, and retail/commercial space.
> 
> However, the item was continued to Tuesday after the developer requested modifications to the proposed agreement. City staff wrote in a report that the modifications were acceptable "because they are either minor changes or are not critical at the IENA stage."
> 
> If approved, the agreement would open the way for formal studies of the project's feasibility and its possible fiscal impacts.
> 
> The proposed site includes land owned by the city as well as land owned by BART. A staff report prepared for Tuesday's meeting includes emails from several residents who oppose the project, saying it would cause increased congestion in the downtown area.
> 
> Hall Equities Group is owned by Mark Hall, who has acquired the rights for a United Soccer League team.
> 
> Tuesday's meeting is scheduled for 6:30 p.m. in the City Council chamber at 1950 Parkside Drive in Concord.


https://www.sfgate.com/news/bayarea...oposal-To-Return-To-City-Council-13550203.php


----------



## ielag

18K seems way too big for a USL stadium in Contra Costa County.


----------



## pesto

ielag said:


> 18K seems way too big for a USL stadium in Contra Costa County.


LOL. ANYTHING seems large for a stadium in Concord. I guess the area is growing but it is pretty remote for most of the Bay Area.

Btw, Hall had previously pitched a similar stadium for Oakland as part of a proposal for an A's ballpark there.


----------



## slipperydog

ielag said:


> 18K seems way too big for a USL stadium in Contra Costa County.


18K is arguably too big for Santa Clara County. Mm.


----------



## RMB2007

*Louisville City FC*










https://vimeo.com/user43780596


----------



## pesto

slipperydog said:


> 18K is arguably too big for Santa Clara County. Mm.


Santa Clara Cty. already has an 18k stadium, a 17k arena and a 68k stadium which are regularly filled.


----------



## The Game Is Up

ielag said:


> 18K seems way too big for a USL stadium in Contra Costa County.


It looks like it has not been laughed out of the city offices, yet.



> The Concord City Council agreed Tuesday to further explore the possibility of putting a professional soccer stadium, a convention center and hotels along with retail, housing and office space on long-vacant downtown city property.
> 
> The council voted 4-1, with Laura Hoffmeister dissenting, to authorize the city to enter into an initial exclusive negotiating agreement with Walnut Creek developer Mark Hall to explore the feasibility of such a master development.
> 
> Of the roughly 33 acres that Hall wants to use for overall project, about 20 percent is city-owned, consisting of about four sites near the Concord police station and the BART station. The rest of the land is owned by BART.
> 
> The agreement would allow Hall’s company, Hall Equities Group, to work with Concord to assess the costs and other details of the project and allow Hall to discuss the proposal with BART.
> 
> “BART wants to see support from Concord,” Hall said in an interview Tuesday night. His firm has talked briefly with BART staff and directors, Hall said, but has not formally approached the BART board or submitted a proposal.


https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2019/0...ploring-proposal-for-downtown-soccer-stadium/


----------



## slipperydog

pesto said:


> Santa Clara Cty. already has an 18k stadium, a 17k arena and a 68k stadium which are regularly filled.


Nah, the Earthquakes stadium is pretty empty most of the time. Which underlines the point that if Santa Clara County can't fill an 18k soccer stadium on a regular basis, Contra certainly can't.

It was mostly a tongue-in-cheek zing at the Earthquakes, but guess it went over your head lol


----------



## pesto

slipperydog said:


> Nah, the Earthquakes stadium is pretty empty most of the time. Which underlines the point that if Santa Clara County can't fill an 18k soccer stadium on a regular basis, Contra certainly can't.
> 
> It was mostly a tongue-in-cheek zing at the Earthquakes, but guess it went over your head lol


For sure. Their attendance is right in the middle of the MLS pack so I guess half the teams in MLS are underperforming. And more power to them if they can sell tickets and the people don't show up; eliminates the need for parking. :lol:


----------



## The Game Is Up

Soccer Stadium Set To Open In April On St. Croix; Facility Will Host Local And International FIFA Tournaments

https://viconsortium.com/sports/soc...ost-local-and-international-fifa-tournaments/


----------



## ielag

slipperydog said:


> Nah, the Earthquakes stadium is pretty empty most of the time. Which underlines the point that if Santa Clara County can't fill an 18k soccer stadium on a regular basis, Contra certainly can't.
> 
> It was mostly a tongue-in-cheek zing at the Earthquakes, but guess it went over your head lol


Huh? SJ has sold out a majority of games in Avaya's existence. Went down a little bit last season because they've been bad for a couple of years now.

They averaged 19,032 per game and if you remove the 50K they get every year for the Galaxy match at Stanford Stadium, they averaged 17,096 in 2018. In 2017, their Avaya attendance was 17,992, and all sellouts in 2015 and 2016.


----------



## Guest

ielag said:


> Huh? SJ has sold out a majority of games in Avaya's existence. Went down a little bit last season because they've been bad for a couple of years now.
> 
> They averaged 19,032 per game and if you remove the 50K they get every year for the Galaxy match at Stanford Stadium, they averaged 17,096 in 2018. In 2017, their Avaya attendance was 17,992, and all sellouts in 2015 and 2016.


Maybe slipperydog actually watches games. We all understand how American sports work with tickets sold/attendances. Yes, Earthquakes ‘sell out’, but anyone who watches games knows that those tickets are rarely used up to constitute a sellout. Earthquakes are no better than some of the teams that get shit on, but get a pass because they have the right ingredients in place. They just need a winning team...until then theyll continue to get sellouts in name only.


----------



## The Game Is Up

> Back in 2007, during Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s reign, the large triangular site between Citi Field and Downtown Flushing was cleared of acres of auto-mechanic shops, ostensibly in order to clean the area of toxic soil and redevelop it into a mixed-use neighborhood. But in June 2017, a judge vetoed the original, decade-old development plan for the site. That came as a blow to both the city and project’s contractor—a joint venture between Related Companies and the Mets-owning Sterling Equities.
> 
> In February 2018, the city announced that it was going back to the drawing board on Willets Point. The first phase of the project, which encompasses 23 acres of the site, would consist of 1,100 units of affordable housing, including 200 units for senior housing, and a 450-seat school across six acres.
> 
> As to the remaining 17 acres, a task force was assembled to make recommendations for the site.
> 
> At the task force’s final meeting in September, the group arrived at two potential scenarios for the site, which the EDC shared on its website earlier this month. The first would be primarily residential with a range of affordability, with fire and police stations, a health center, storefront retail and public spaces. The second would be centered around a 25,000-seat stadium and a large parking structure that would serve both the stadium and the nearby home of the Mets. It would also include a high school, retail and affordable housing, according to documents made public by the EDC.
> 
> These recommendations will serve as the basis for a new proposal from the developers, known as the Queens Development Group (QDG). “QDG received feedback based on the task force process from EDC. We will be using that feedback to progress conversations with EDC on the next phase of the Willets Point development,” a spokesperson for the joint venture said.
> 
> According to Moya, the tradeoff between the two scenarios is that in the former, the additional housing would be market rate.
> 
> “Without the soccer stadium, the housing that comes in is market-rate housing,” he said, because there needs to be a portion of the development that generates revenue. Part of the deliberations, he said, was, “What’s that economic engine that’s going to help develop the rest of Willets Point?”
> 
> Katz was one of the first to endorse the idea of a soccer stadium back in June 2017, just as the old development plan was scrapped for good, and then spoke of it again during the 2018 State of the Borough Address. “Just imagine if we, the world’s borough, hosted the World Cup,” she said.
> 
> Then, in October, she and Moya met with soccer player David Villa and put out a statement about the stadium. “One option that was discussed is a proposal to build a 10,000- to 25,000-seat soccer stadium in the Willets Point redevelopment area that would serve as home for the Queensboro Football Club, a proposed new team that would play in the United Soccer League, a second-division professional league,” the statement said.


https://commercialobserver.com/2019/01/willets-point-development-scenarios-2019/


----------



## The Game Is Up

Reign FC announces immediate move to Tacoma, dropping Seattle from name

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports...ccer-team-announces-immediate-move-to-tacoma/


Reign FC move to Tacoma for 2019 season, and beyond

https://www.sounderatheart.com/2019/1/30/18203332/seattle-reign-fc-tacoma-2019


----------



## GunnerJacket

I see that the Sounders USL team is also rebranding to Tacoma Defiance and will share the venue with the Reign, which hopefully will help both franchises. The ability to sell alcohol alone should provide at least one cause for uptick. The possible fallout could come at the expense of the Tacoma Stars of the Major Arena Soccer League, a brand that's storied for the indoor game. Tacoma is a growing metro area and close enough to both Seattle and Olympia, but one has to wonder if the market can harbor 3 soccer franchises at this level. Who knows, maybe they'll establish this as their unique thing!


----------



## slipperydog

The Game Is Up said:


> Reign FC move to Tacoma for 2019 season, and beyond
> 
> https://www.sounderatheart.com/2019/1/30/18203332/seattle-reign-fc-tacoma-2019


Here's a rendering of the 5,000 seat stadium expected to be ready for the 2021 season.


----------



## BoulderGrad

slipperydog said:


> Here's a rendering of the 5,000 seat stadium expected to be ready for the 2021 season.


It's been discussed, but no agreement on the stadium has been finalized yet:

https://www.king5.com/article/sport...ance/281-efecf9f8-66bb-471a-9f97-188b57f5be44



> The clubs already reached an agreement in 2017 to build a 5,000-seat facility in Central Tacoma near Cheney Stadium, although there has not been much movement since. It was seeking name suggestions for the rebrand until September of 2018.
> 
> Mayor Woodards said the feasibility study on the soccer stadium is underway and could be done within the next couple of months. She said no promises were made to any of the ownership groups. However, it’s unclear exactly who would pay for the 5,000-6,000-seat stadium.
> 
> The City has identified the land, near Cheney Stadium, which borders 19th but not the funding mechanism. Woodards hinted it would have to be a “public-private partnership” and also have to “pencil out” for taxpayers.
> 
> But team backers are likely banking on the fact that the momentum of two different ownership groups would make it an easier proposition for the city and the Council.


----------



## slipperydog

BoulderGrad said:


> It's been discussed, but no agreement on the stadium has been finalized yet


Yes, although the parties involved seem to be pretty confident it will get done, especially with the the baseball team being involved.



> By moving to a stadium that can deliver a truly modern matchday experience, we reduced uncertainty about our future and created conditions under which further investment in the club could be made with confidence.
> 
> This encouraged the group operating the Rainiers and S2 (led by Mikal Thomsen, Chairman and CEO of the Tacoma Rainiers) to take a minority ownership stake in Reign FC.
> 
> While this investment will deliver immediate benefits to the club, it is the long-term impact of our collaboration with Mikal and his organization in Tacoma that provided us with the most compelling reason to make the move.
> 
> Efforts are already underway (led by Mikal) to build a soccer-specific stadium in Tacoma. *Should all go according to plan, Reign FC will train and play its matches in a new, state-of-the-art facility beginning with the 2021 season.*


https://www.sounderatheart.com/2019/1/30/18203707/reign-owners-open-letter


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^Still doesn't mean anything's been finalized. They have the motivation to get it done, sure, but still quite a few hoops to jump through before its certainly happening.


----------



## Guest

It’s better, but still shit.


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1095439724448268288


----------



## The Game Is Up

Tormenta Stadium to break ground March 27

https://www.statesboroherald.com/local/tormenta-stadium-break-ground-march-27/


----------



## bongo-anders

If they have a loosing streak they can call it Tormented stadium.


----------



## pesto

bongo-anders said:


> If they have a loosing streak they can call it Tormented stadium.


I like someone who plans for the future. :lol:


----------



## The Game Is Up

Minnesota United's stadium in St. Paul will be the eighth bearing Allianz's name

http://www.startribune.com/minnesot...-the-eighth-bearing-allianz-s-name/506243652/


----------



## WesTexas

Why change it? The first BEFORE was AWESOME! It would have instantly been the best crest in the MLS!



willygtoc said:


> Nashville MLS Expansion Team Unveils Team Logo & Name
> 
> 
> Before & after.


----------



## JJG

WesTexas said:


> Why change it? The first BEFORE was AWESOME! It would have instantly been the best crest in the MLS!


They HAVE to change it. 

Because the USL and MLS are separate entities, they can't have the same crests/logos.


----------



## WesTexas

JJG said:


> They HAVE to change it.
> 
> Because the USL and MLS are separate entities, they can't have the same crests/logos.


Well that sucks. In hopes that the USL could one day be used for regulation and deregulation, they need to get this fixed.


----------



## The Game Is Up

> Construction on the professional soccer stadium in the heart of St. Paul’s Midway neighborhood is complete.
> 
> Mortenson Construction announced it has finished work on Allianz Field, the $250 million facility at Snelling and University avenues.
> 
> The stadium is believed to be the largest private building project in city history. It has 19,400 seats with room for expansion.
> 
> The facility will be home to Minnesota United, a Major League Soccer team that will play its inaugural home opener on April 13 against New York City FC.
> 
> Minneapolis-based Mortenson said Wednesday that it had turned over control of the facility to Minnesota United after 20 months of work.
> 
> Greg Huber, Mortenson’s project executive, said in a written statement that the work “has been an amazing journey. … We worked through two tough winters. The fact that we were able to stay on schedule is a testament to all of the people who had the commitment and passion to build this incredible stadium.”
> 
> Huber called the bowl-shaped dome a “catalyst to reinvigorate and further redevelop the historical Midway.”


https://www.twincities.com/2019/02/...ianz-field-soccer-stadium-in-st-pauls-midway/


----------



## slipperydog

*Stadium and entertainment project proposed for MAPS 4 south of Bricktown in Oklahoma City*



> OKLAHOMA CITY (February 28, 2019) - A growing alliance of Oklahoma City residents and organizations today announced support for a MAPS 4 proposal to connect south Oklahoma City to downtown through a cultural, entertainment and sports district anchored by a City-owned multi-purpose outdoor entertainment venue.
> 
> The proposal calls for the City to include the venue in the MAPS 4 program, on which residents are expected to vote later this year. Such a venue would allow Oklahoma City to compete for numerous outdoor events including professional soccer matches, rugby and lacrosse games, high school multi-sport rivalries including Oklahoma State Championship Football games, national performances and a host of outdoor concerts, events and exhibitions.
> 
> “We fully support Mayor Holt’s vision to usher in a more diverse and inclusive Oklahoma City,” said Bob Funk, Jr., owner & CEO of Prodigal, LLC which operates the Oklahoma City Energy FC and is major driver of the proposal. “Connecting south Oklahoma City to downtown through a cultural and sports district would be a powerful component of building unity and showcasing our diversity.”
> 
> *The outdoor venue would be sized in accordance with USL, MLS, U.S. Rugby, Major League Lacrosse as well as Oklahoma Secondary School Field regulations and seat between 8,500 – 10,000 people for sporting events* and 16,500 to 18,000 for outdoor concerts. It would be designed to allow for renovation to expand capacity, much like the Ford Center which later became Chesapeake Arena.
> 
> The City-owned venue would also serve to anchor a walkable district of diverse, modern restaurants, housing and retail, functioning as the public element of a public -private partnership.


https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=585-Stadium-and-entertainment-project-proposed-for-MAPS-4


----------



## RMB2007

> FXE Futbol's 3-D rendering for revitalizing and restoring the 65-acres at historic Lockhart Stadium.
> 
> Submitted to the city of Fort Lauderdale on March 1st, 2019.


https://twitter.com/FXE_Futbol








> Miami Beckham United is proud to share its vision for the new Lockhart Stadium Community Park and future home to Inter Miami’s professional training facilities.


https://twitter.com/InterMiamiCF


----------



## slipperydog

RMB2007 said:


>


Are these two separate competing proposals for the site?

Also in Beckham's proposal, it looks like a complete teardown, as they are re-orienting the stadium to a north-south configuration.


----------



## RMB2007

^^



> Defunct Lockhart Stadium in Fort Lauderdale hasn’t hosted a match in years. But now two professional soccer groups are in a hot competition for it.
> 
> The city is moving toward a deal to revive the 64-acre property in northern Fort Lauderdale, now fielding two bids offering to transform the publicly owned site into a sports destination.
> 
> On one side: Soccer icon David Beckham’s Inter Miami announced a week ago a proposal to build a state-of-the-art soccer training facility, multi-purpose sports stadium and a sport-centric community destination on the Lockhart Stadium site. It would serve as a training center for Beckham’s soon-to-exist MLS soccer team, scheduled to kick off in the 2020 season in Miami-Dade County.
> 
> On the other side: John P. Reynal, CEO of OnSide Entertainment soccer company, said he’s been working on a proposal for Lockhart for two years. His FXE Futbol offer: a $100 million complex including renovation of the stadium and creation of a “full-on sports entertainment facility” with restaurants, shops, a Topgolf attraction and professional soccer/multi-purpose fields.
> 
> FXE Futbol promises to bring Fort Lauderdale its own USL Championship soccer team. The USL Championship professional men’s soccer league is a tier beneath the MLS team Beckham’s group will field, but it would play at Lockhart, not in Miami.


https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/...beckham-soccer-lauderdale-20190204-story.html


----------



## The Game Is Up

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1100767259591671809


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1101153402527105025


----------



## Guest

> A new stadium solution or a different stadium solution in Chicago


. 

The obvious one is Soldier Field. The Toyota Park stadium is a bad deal for both parties. It's hard for the Fire to get out of it anytime soon, but I understand that Bridgeview is in a bad state financially, and the stadium situation is hurting them.

If they severed the lease, it would allow the Fire to move on. There's no obvious stadium opportunity, though. The Lincoln Yards thing is dead. 

If you want to be downtown, Soldier Field is a good bet. Of course, you wouldn't have control of the venue. 

I just think that entire market needs a redo. Similar to Boston. Chicago and Boston should be flagship markets for the league, and I think would be given the kind of situations we have in other markets where it's easier to build where you want. 

They may not control the venue, but Soldier Field could work in this day and age. 

Change the name for one......you know there's a problem when there's a TV show with the same name that is more popular than the team.

And then target selling 30,000 tickets a game at Soldier Field. It's a 61k seater, which is considerably smaller than Seattle and Atlanta, which work well on TV. I don't know the exact numbers, but it seems like it's nicely delineated to create the right kind of atmosphere for a capacity capped at 30k~.


----------



## master_klon

RMB2007 said:


> https://twitter.com/InterMiamiCF


Looks like this will be the temporary stadium for Inter Miami, as you can see scaffolding on the three smaller stands. I guess once the new stadium is built those three stands will be removed and it will become the home for their second team in USL.


----------



## BoulderGrad

5portsF4n said:


> The obvious one is Soldier Field. The Toyota Park stadium is a bad deal for both parties. It's hard for the Fire to get out of it anytime soon, but I understand that Bridgeview is in a bad state financially, and the stadium situation is hurting them.
> 
> If they severed the lease, it would allow the Fire to move on. There's no obvious stadium opportunity, though. The Lincoln Yards thing is dead.
> 
> If you want to be downtown, Soldier Field is a good bet. Of course, you wouldn't have control of the venue.
> 
> I just think that entire market needs a redo. Similar to Boston. Chicago and Boston should be flagship markets for the league, and I think would be given the kind of situations we have in other markets where it's easier to build where you want.
> 
> They may not control the venue, but Soldier Field could work in this day and age.
> 
> Change the name for one......you know there's a problem when there's a TV show with the same name that is more popular than the team.
> 
> And then target selling 30,000 tickets a game at Soldier Field. It's a 61k seater, which is considerably smaller than Seattle and Atlanta, which work well on TV. I don't know the exact numbers, but it seems like it's nicely delineated to create the right kind of atmosphere for a capacity capped at 30k~.


The sortof defacto requirement for this would be the ownership of the Bears to be involved (edit: and take an active interest) with the ownership of the Fire. 

The reason SSSs became a thing was to ensure that each team had control over their own revenue. The reason teams like Atlanta, Seattle, New England, etc continue to be able to play in NFL venues is they share owners with the NFL teams that run or own those venues, and thus retaining the revenue generated when they play there (rather than paying some of it in rent to an NFL landlord). That also has the side benefit of having the NFL team's marketing dept behind you as well.

I'm not 100% familiar with The Fire's relationship with the owners of Toyota Park, but I'd venture a guess its still better financially for them to play in a half empty Toyota Par...err... SeatGeek Stadium than it is to draw 30k at Soldier field unless the above condition is met.

Not that I'd be against that arrangement. I think it would actually be cool to see the Fire return to Soldier field and actually have some money behind them. With the Bears current ownership, I don't think this is on the horizon. I gather they're more old school football owners who aren't too into the idea of being involved in Soccer.


----------



## ielag

Last year, a Chicago billionaire (Joe Mansueto) bought 49% of the Fire. I think there's definitely something behind the scenes going on with their situation.


----------



## Guest

BoulderGrad said:


> The sortof defacto requirement for this would be the ownership of the Bears to be involved (edit: and take an active interest) with the ownership of the Fire.
> .


Soldier Field is neither owned nor operated by the Bears. So that’s not an issue.


----------



## spectre000

Some more.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Nice shots, Spectre. Thanks for sharing.

Any idea why the pitch has struggled? Is it simply the cold snap?


----------



## carnifex2005

Looks like the supporter section is going to be pretty loud...

https://twitter.com/MNUFC/status/1109878678585073664


----------



## spectre000

GunnerJacket said:


> Nice shots, Spectre. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> Any idea why the pitch has struggled? Is it simply the cold snap?


Yes, a heavy snowfall this winter. The pitch was covered in snow only a couple weeks ago.


----------



## Temporarily Exiled

Why David Beckham is desperate to keep Inter Miami out of the suburbs - The Guardian

Article begins by talking about Inter Miami's search for a permanent home, but also talks about stadiums in the MLS generally, including an interview with Bruce Miller (lead architect for Minnesota United's Allianz Field).


----------



## GunnerJacket

This just in: Fans prefer stadium sites that are accessible and have other attractions in the vicinity! More on this discovery as the story develops...


----------



## Chevy114

This Louisville stadium kind of reminds me of avaya stadium in San Jose


----------



## The Game Is Up

> Loudoun County representatives joined with officials of Loudoun United FC on Tuesday for a ceremony to break ground on a new soccer stadium at Philip A. Bolen Memorial Park in Leesburg.
> 
> The stadium is expected to be ready for Loudoun United’s inaugural match, which is scheduled for August 9, 2019.
> 
> The stadium, with a seating capacity of approximately 5,000, will be home to Loudoun United FC — the direct second-division affiliate of Major League Soccer (MLS) club D.C. United.


https://wjla.com/sports/dc-united/loudoun-county-breaks-ground-new-leesburg-soccer-stadium


----------



## The Game Is Up

> The longtime home pitch of the Charleston Battery is set to be sold to a real estate developer in a deal that will likely bring the professional soccer club’s matches to downtown Charleston next year.
> 
> Holland Park LLC, which holds a lease on the facility, is close to finalizing a deal to sell MUSC Health Stadium and the surrounding land, including the practice field and offices, according to documents filed with Berkeley County.
> 
> The sale does not include the USL franchise.
> 
> The buyer is an affiliate of Atlanta-based Holder Properties.
> 
> The Battery is working on a deal to relocate, with the hopes of playing next year’s matches at The Citadel’s Johnson Hagood Stadium.
> 
> Eric Bowman’s B Sports Entertainment bought the club from Tony Bakker in 2016. At the same time, Holland Park acquired the 11-acre stadium site for $8.5 million.
> 
> Bakker, founder and former CEO of software maker Blackbaud Inc., had been the Battery’s owner for more than two decades. He was responsible for bringing professional soccer to Charleston in 1992, when the club played its games at Stoney Field near The Citadel.


https://www.postandcourier.com/spor...cle_1e0bcbc0-50c8-11e9-9869-a70c162cac34.html


----------



## slipperydog

*South Georgia Tormenta FC*

Groundbreaking for the new 5,300 seat stadium occurred yesterday, March 27


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1111015799232307201


----------



## slipperydog

*Austin Bold FC*

First match in new stadium is a derby match vs San Antonio on Saturday (part of the supporter driven Copa Tejas also involving El Paso and Rio Grande Valley clubs)
https://twitter.com/copatejas


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1111093894308073472

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1111264331616923649


----------



## GunnerJacket

The Game Is Up said:


> The longtime home pitch of the Charleston Battery is set to be sold to a real estate developer in a deal that will likely bring the professional soccer club’s matches to downtown Charleston next year.
> 
> ...
> 
> The Battery is working on a deal to relocate, with the hopes of playing next year’s matches at The Citadel’s Johnson Hagood Stadium.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.postandcourier.com/spor...cle_1e0bcbc0-50c8-11e9-9869-a70c162cac34.html
Click to expand...

Well, I'm sorry to hear about them leaving their ground, which I thought was really nice for that scale of operation. Had the chance to visit several times and have an older Battery cap somewhere. I hope they land in a better venue if possible, but am leery about playing in the larger facility on the Citadel campus. Fingers crossed that one of USL's longstanding and better brands endures.



slipperydog said:


> *South Georgia Tormenta FC*
> 
> Groundbreaking for the new 5,300 seat stadium occurred yesterday, March 27
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1111015799232307201


I'm still shocked at this proposal, because Statesboro doesn't strike me as a strong enough market. But if they can pull this off it maybe it will be the start of something for that area. Potential for a rivalry with the Battery, though usually that's a Charleston-Savannah thing.


----------



## ielag

GunnerJacket said:


> I'm still shocked at this proposal, because Statesboro doesn't strike me as a strong enough market. But if they can pull this off it maybe it will be the start of something for that area. Potential for a rivalry with the Battery, though usually that's a Charleston-Savannah thing.


South Georgia is in League One (3rd Division) and Charleston is in the Championship (2nd Division).


----------



## GunnerJacket

ielag said:


> South Georgia is in League One (3rd Division) and Charleston is in the Championship (2nd Division).


True, I'd forgotten that. Perhaps they can meet up in the Open Cup or preseason tournaments.


----------



## carnifex2005

*Detroit City FC to add suites made from old shipping containers
*

_Semi-pro club bought six industrial shipping containers for Keyworth Stadium

Four containers will become 12 suites, and 7 have been leased so far; 2 become bars

Suite season lease is $10,000 and aids DCFC's bid to turn pro later in 2019_

Semi-pro soccer team Detroit City FC, seeking revenue to fund its move to professional status later this year, will add suites made from refurbished industrial shipping containers as VIP seating at its home stadium in Hamtramck.

Four of the steel containers will be placed on newly poured concrete pads behind the goal at the north end of Keyworth Stadium, the school district-owned historic venue used by the wildly popular semi-pro soccer club since 2016. Each of the containers will be divided into three suites that can accommodate 16 people, said Detroit City FC CEO Sean Mann, and seven of the 12 suites have been leased.

The suites can be leased for $10,000 for the season, or per match starting at $800, Mann said.










More info in link above.


----------



## GunnerJacket

There was an article in Urban Land magazine a few months ago about how such containers are now being used to create cheap, modular urban residences. Stackable mobile homes, as it were, but tastefully and intentionally done. Methinks this technique is going to become more prevalent in the future and this is but one example of how.

Good for DFC.


----------



## Chevy114

We have a hispter park called Sparkman's Wharf that uses shipping containers for food places like a food court here in Tampa downtown by the hockey arena:


----------



## pesto

carnifex2005 said:


> *Detroit City FC to add suites made from old shipping containers
> *
> 
> _Semi-pro club bought six industrial shipping containers for Keyworth Stadium
> 
> Four containers will become 12 suites, and 7 have been leased so far; 2 become bars
> 
> Suite season lease is $10,000 and aids DCFC's bid to turn pro later in 2019_
> 
> Semi-pro soccer team Detroit City FC, seeking revenue to fund its move to professional status later this year, will add suites made from refurbished industrial shipping containers as VIP seating at its home stadium in Hamtramck.
> 
> Four of the steel containers will be placed on newly poured concrete pads behind the goal at the north end of Keyworth Stadium, the school district-owned historic venue used by the wildly popular semi-pro soccer club since 2016. Each of the containers will be divided into three suites that can accommodate 16 people, said Detroit City FC CEO Sean Mann, and seven of the 12 suites have been leased.
> 
> The suites can be leased for $10,000 for the season, or per match starting at $800, Mann said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More info in link above.


An added plus is that the fans can attend road games without ever having to leave their suites. :lol:


----------



## Cjones2451

carnifex2005 said:


> *Detroit City FC to add suites made from old shipping containers
> *
> 
> _Semi-pro club bought six industrial shipping containers for Keyworth Stadium
> 
> Four containers will become 12 suites, and 7 have been leased so far; 2 become bars
> 
> Suite season lease is $10,000 and aids DCFC's bid to turn pro later in 2019_
> 
> Semi-pro soccer team Detroit City FC, seeking revenue to fund its move to professional status later this year, will add suites made from refurbished industrial shipping containers as VIP seating at its home stadium in Hamtramck.
> 
> Four of the steel containers will be placed on newly poured concrete pads behind the goal at the north end of Keyworth Stadium, the school district-owned historic venue used by the wildly popular semi-pro soccer club since 2016. Each of the containers will be divided into three suites that can accommodate 16 people, said Detroit City FC CEO Sean Mann, and seven of the 12 suites have been leased.
> 
> The suites can be leased for $10,000 for the season, or per match starting at $800, Mann said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More info in link above.


The Halifax team in the new CPL is doing that too


----------



## Temporarily Exiled

GunnerJacket said:


> There was an article in Urban Land magazine a few months ago about how such containers are now being used to create cheap, modular urban residences. Stackable mobile homes, as it were, but tastefully and intentionally done. Methinks this technique is going to become more prevalent in the future and this is but one example of how.
> 
> Good for DFC.


I'm actually living in that type of accommodation now. Stacked five high, row of ten. I think this is only designed to be temporary though, more a result of a housing crisis in the city where I'm living.

Moving back to footie, Exeter City (England) have used shipping containers (with windows cut out) as to house first aid / control facilities following a recent redevelopment of St James Park. I think they also went with shipping containers rather than bricks and mortar for new food and drink kiosks.


----------



## slipperydog

*Inter Fort Lauderdale (?)*

VIDEO: Lockhart Stadium demolition ceremony


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1126164916350660616


----------



## carnifex2005

New render for the "temp" stadium at Lockhart...


----------



## marcvader

They should just stay there. Tons of land to develop.


----------



## Moth27

5portsF4n said:


> chicago to soldier field move imminent. could end up being temporary as there is a site, michael reese site, where speculation suggests could be site to house a new soccer stadium. people seem to think it is an excellent site. heres hoping fire are playing in a new stadium in next 5 years.


How do the demographics of the fanbase compare with the demographics of the surrounding neighborhood? Soccer in the US definitely feels more like the urban, hipster and predominantly white scene - one that is much more likely to be associated with the north side of Chicago rather than the south. Correct me if I'm wrong about the area or the local fanbase, though; I'm a New Yorker.


----------



## marcvader

Moth27 said:


> How do the demographics of the fanbase compare with the demographics of the surrounding neighborhood? Soccer in the US definitely feels more like the urban, hipster and predominantly white scene - one that is much more likely to be associated with the north side of Chicago rather than the south. Correct me if I'm wrong about the area or the local fanbase, though; I'm a New Yorker.


The neighborhood is predominantly Hispanic.


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1126208050807832576


----------



## nomarandlee

marcvader said:


> The neighborhood is predominantly Hispanic.


The current Fire stadium in Hispanic but it has had a very hard to draw from outside the community in general. 

The area around the Michale Reese site is definitely African-American. Just to the north, it is more mixed and Pilsen is to the west a few miles away is heavily Hispanic.


----------



## Guest

marcvader said:


> They should just stay there. Tons of land to develop.


Would be surprised if mls doesnt have a clause in the beckham contract saying it must be in miami. Whether they want to stay or not, FL is not what mls agreed to, and no way they agree to this long term.


----------



## slipperydog

> The Chicago Fire will pay the Bridgeview $60.5 million to break its SeatGeek Stadium lease, per a local report, paving the way for a move to Soldier Field in 2020


https://soccerstadiumdigest.com/2019/05/chicago-fire-to-pay-60-5m-to-break-seatgeek-stadium-lease/


----------



## Chevy114

Man they are putting too much into Lockhart. It hosts high school football and hasn't hosted anything else big since FIU and FAU have their own stadiums. What are they going to do with something that nice after soccer moves out? 

The Miami team location probably has to be in Miami proper like NYCFC wants to be in NYC proper. Can't blame them, this is a long term investment, you don't want to make the same mistakes the marlins made with poor location choices. 

As for Chicago, Glad they are moving out, if they haven't found a way to get better attendance by now, do like most soccer teams with success and go to the city proper.


----------



## slipperydog

Chevy114 said:


> Man they are putting too much into Lockhart. It hosts high school football and hasn't hosted anything else big since FIU and FAU have their own stadiums. What are they going to do with something that nice after soccer moves out?


The new complex at Lockhart will be Inter Miami's permanent training facility and I believe there are plans for them to have their second or third division USL side play in the stadium there once the first team moves into their new stadium down in Miami proper. But in case there are delays, it's probably a good idea that they have this facility as a stopgap.


----------



## BoulderGrad

slipperydog said:


> But in case there are delays, it's probably a good idea that they have this facility as a stopgap.


What could ever make you think there will be Delays with the Miami stadium?... :duck:


----------



## Lumbergo

marcvader said:


> They should just stay there. Tons of land to develop.


They might as well buy the name back from Bill Edwards (former Tampa Bay Rowdies owner - if he still owns the rights) and rename the team the Fort Lauderdale Strikers then....






actually wouldn't surprise me in the grand scheme if they resurface as a USL team under Inter Miami


----------



## The Game Is Up

What’s happening with Rochester’s multi-million dollar soccer stadium?

https://www.whec.com/news/whatrsquo...-multi-million-dollar-soccer-stadium/5343726/


East Ridge officials support tax incentives for Red Wolves stadium project

https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/local/story/2019/may/09/east-ridge-incentives-red-wolves/494392/


----------



## GreenHornet553

BoulderGrad said:


> ^^I love how they're basically just telling you they have no reason to invest in a Revs stadium...
> 
> "Sooo... we already have this stadium that we own for the Revs to play in...
> 
> Building one specifically for the Revs would cost more than building that stadium...
> 
> Soooo.... yeah... we're not gonna do that...



Who would want to give a stadium to that dreadful team that has consistently underachieved? I understand that the bar has been set pretty high here in New England with the Patriots winning 6 super bowls in 20 years, alongside 4 world series titles from the Red Sox, an NBA title by the Celtics, and a Stanley Cup from the Bruins. It is hard for any team, especially in a sport that is still trying to take hold in association football/soccer, to match that expectations to keep their name relevant. And yet I can honestly tell you that the Revs have no steam here because of how badly they have performed. Zero. Nada. Zilch. And nor should they. This is a team that has been to the MLS Cup 5 times and has puked on their cleats all 5 times, haven't put together a winning team/watchable product on the field in what feels like ages, and the Krafts and MLS expect to get a 20,000+ seat stadium from the city of Boston? They can go and pound wet sand and rot in Gillette. Boston has more important things to do with the land available than to build another sports venue that will create more traffic jams on a weekend in summer for a sub 500 team filled with bums, Latin American players who aren't capable of playing in Europe, and European cast aways who couldn't cut it anymore. As far as I'm concerned, the Revs need to prove why they even deserve Boston's attention first, never mind a stadium.


----------



## Guest

To me the obvious solution is for a new large stadium in Boston at some point. As long as Revs are owned by Kraft, no reason for two stadiums, and unrealistic to expect it. 

I know Patriots have been in Foxborough for eons, but Gillette hasnt aged well. 

Is it conceivable to build a new 60-70k stadium closer to downtown? 

I have no doubt Boston could be on par with Seattle and Atlanta. Obviously a 20k stadium would be ideal, but unless Krafts sell, thats not happening. To me this is the next best option.


----------



## GreenHornet553

5portsF4n said:


> To me the obvious solution is for a new large stadium in Boston at some point. As long as Revs are owned by Kraft, no reason for two stadiums, and unrealistic to expect it.
> 
> I know Patriots have been in Foxborough for eons, but Gillette hasnt aged well.
> 
> Is it conceivable to build a new 60-70k stadium closer to downtown?
> 
> I have no doubt Boston could be on par with Seattle and Atlanta. Obviously a 20k stadium would be ideal, but unless Krafts sell, thats not happening. To me this is the next best option.



The Krafts aren't moving the Patriots to Boston for a multitude of reasons. Not only would the Patriots fanbase be absolutely livid over the move to a more expensive property which would result in higher season ticket prices, parking, and overall game day experience, not only would the traffic be chaotic and bring the city to a grinding halt, not only would the local business owners near Gillette be angry at the loss of revenue from Patriots game days with the move from Foxborough to Boston, but the Krafts have already invested way too much in Patriot place to where it would be impossible for them to move from Foxborough now without the massive loss of revenue. Also the Kraft family likes the current set up with the Patriots at Gillette because they have financial control over every aspect. They collect all the revenue from the gate of all events, parking, vendors, Patriot Place storefronts, etc. In Boston, they wouldn't nearly have that much control. The only hope Revs fans have is that Kraft sells the team, and I don't know what would drive him to sell now or at any point. Plus, the Krafts own Gillette, as Bob Kraft put $365 Million of his own money to build Gillette Stadium. If anything, I would think Bob Kraft would continue what he does now and continuously renovate the stadium in small chunks rather than try and shakedown Marty Walsh, a mayor who the Krafts seem to have an adversarial relationship with already.


----------



## Guest

Fair enough. In any case, a month ago, there didnt seem to be any option to fix Chicago. All of a sudden, they bought out their lease, are moving to Soldier Field, could be in a new home in the next five years. Things can move fast.

It may seem like Revs future is sorted, but anything can happen. There have been rumors of a Revs stadium in the past year. It could be nothing, but you never know. 

I dont buy your argument about giving a stadium to an underachieving team. Thats not how things work. The exact same scenario is playing out right now in Chicago which could see the team land a stadium in a great location. The Fire arent moving to SF to spend the rest of their days there, that much is clear.


----------



## GreenHornet553

True, but at least the Fire are going to a stadium that is already in Chicago. The Revs would literally have nowhere to go, unless they want to give Nickerson Field a go in the interim while they figure out a stadium deal, but that is a 9000+ capacity stadium on a college campus and I doubt MLS and/or Boston University would be down with that. There is also the choice of having the team play at Harvard Stadium, which is a bit bigger but like BU, I don't know if Harvard would allow it plus I don't know about the sight lines.


----------



## Guest

GreenHornet553 said:


> True, but at least the Fire are going to a stadium that is already in Chicago. The Revs would literally have nowhere to go, unless they want to give Nickerson Field a go in the interim while they figure out a stadium deal, but that is a 9000+ capacity stadium on a college campus and I doubt MLS and/or Boston University would be down with that. There is also the choice of having the team play at Harvard Stadium, which is a bit bigger but like BU, I don't know if Harvard would allow it plus I don't know about the sight lines.


The point about Chicago is that Soldier Field seems to be a temporary venue. It seems they are going downtown with a view to building a new stadium. And this week’s rumor mill suggests that such plans are afoot. 

Im saying that the Revs, even under Kraft, could end up building a stadium for the Revs. It doesnt seem likely, but neither did the chance of Chicago going anywhere downtown. And yet here we are. Things can change quickly. Kraft may have no incentive to build, but that doesnt mean he wont. 

MLS has mentioned that it’s beginning to focus on fixing its major markets. I would be surprised if the situations in NY, Boston, and Chicago arent resolved by 2025.


----------



## Guest

The Game Is Up said:


> Maybe I'm naive but I don't see Vegas getting that last spot in the MLS expansion musical chair competition, unless they're trying to bump off either Sacramento or St. Louis for the other spot. Yes, the rendering will be attention-grabbing, like anything that comes out of Vegas, but that won't overcome the market disadvantages, plus there's no guarantee that MLS will expand even more. Getting to 30 in as many years is fast enough.
> 
> We'll see.


It’ll definitely go past 30. Sacramento and St Louis will be in, if you read between the lines. The real question for Vegas is whether it can bump Phoenix and Detroit in the running order. 

I’m not convinced like some that MLS goes past 32 unless the other leagues do first. NHL will soon be at 32, NBA may follow suit, MLB most likely will expand to 32, and NFL is already there. 

I think 32 is the goal for now.


----------



## GunnerJacket

mensolú said:


> I don't see why Miamians bitch so much about Marlins Park location. That's the exact same site the old Orange Bowl used to occupy. During the Dolphins and Hurricanes glory years the old stadium was packed to the rafters every single game, and nobody ever complained about the location. What's wrong with people today?


Well, there is the logistical difference regarding scheduling in that for football the Orange Bowl was used at most less than 20 times a year, with most of those games happening on weekends or holidays. That's different than 82+ games per year with a lot of weeknight events. Not sure that amounts for all the griping but it is a difference.



5portsF4n said:


> It’ll definitely go past 30. Sacramento and St Louis will be in, if you read between the lines. The real question for Vegas is whether it can bump Phoenix and Detroit in the running order.
> 
> I’m not convinced like some that MLS goes past 32 unless the other leagues do first. NHL will soon be at 32, NBA may follow suit, MLB most likely will expand to 32, and NFL is already there.
> 
> I think 32 is the goal for now.


Agreed. 32 seems the target number to have an even # per conference or, as some suggest, 8 per division and then a 38 game schedule.


----------



## The Game Is Up

The cynic in me thinks it's a naked leverage play but Mark Davis has opened his mouth over the thought of MLS in his new Raiders stadium...




> A hedge fund manager from Boston might not be the only billionaire interested in bringing a Major League Soccer expansion franchise to Las Vegas.
> 
> Two independent sources confirmed to the Review-Journal on Tuesday night that Golden Knights owner Bill Foley has engaged in discussions the past several months to land an MLS team that would play in the new Raiders stadium.
> 
> Foley could not be reached for comment, but Raiders owner Mark Davis did not discount the idea of the team’s 65,000-seat domed stadium, set to open in 2020, being home to the MLS.
> 
> “We have 365 days a year to fill in the stadium,” Davis said. “We will hopefully be using it for eight (regular-season) dates plus all our playoff games. So that leaves around 353, and then there is (UNLV football).
> 
> “Major League Soccer and other events would be at the top off our list to help fill those remaining dates. We are open to listening to anything. We owe that to ourselves and the community.”
> 
> When asked if the Raiders and Foley had engaged in talks about an MLS franchise playing in the stadium, Davis said: “I’d prefer not to speak about anyone who has approached us.”
> 
> A third source told the Review-Journal that Foley could potentially partner with another party — not the Raiders — on the MLS deal.
> 
> This news comes just days after it was announced the City Council will consider on Wednesday whether or not to enter into an exclusive negotiating agreement with Renaissance Companies Inc. on a deal to build a new MLS stadium on the site of Cashman Field.
> 
> In that instance, billionaire Seth Klarman of the Baupost Group, a Boston-based private investment partnership he founded in 1982, would purchase the Las Vegas Lights and then pursue an MLS team.
> 
> That would entail Klarman paying a league expansion fee in the range of $250 million and then building the soccer-specific stadium, which would be at least another $200 million.





> Davis said any MLS team that would play in the NFL stadium would be considered a tenant and have to negotiate any potential revenue streams with the Raiders.
> 
> “We have been tenants in the (Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum) and you have seen how that worked out,” Davis said. “It’s one of the reasons we wanted this new stadium, to be in control of it, whether it’s for football or soccer or a concert. “I don’t know very much about the MLS as a league, because I have been so focused on the Raiders and Las Vegas, but I think pro soccer as a complimentary event would be fantastic. Along with the MLS, you could have international games with some great teams playing games in the stadium.
> 
> “Listen, if the deal with the city works out and it’s decided the best thing is for an MLS stadium to be built downtown, I think that’s great, too. We want whatever is best for Las Vegas. It seems as though the Lights have done a really good job with their fan base. But we also have over 300 dates to fill, so I’m not dissuaded at all to listen to anyone who approaches us.”


https://www.reviewjournal.com/sport...ey-eyes-mls-team-for-raiders-stadium-1679421/


----------



## Guest

Never going to happen. Even with their own building, I'll give Vegas a 20% chance of MLS.

Anyway, it's clear the new Vegas stadium will become a regular fixture for international friendlies of the club and country variety.


----------



## RMB2007

> LVCouncil unanimously approves a negotiating agreement with The Renaissance Companies Inc. to explore building a new soccer stadium at the Cashman Field site to house a @MLS expansion franchise
> 
> The plan shows a new covered stadium with a retractable field and mixed use development on 62 acres where Cashman Field is currently. It would seat 25,000 people


https://twitter.com/cristendrummond


----------



## pesto

OK, one more time.

There are how many cities in the US with international name recognition for sports, entertainment, nightlife, big events? NY, LA, Las Vegas? Maybe Miami? 

Only one of them has full-range casino and sports betting at dozens of locations. And it has a brand new, world class, covered, grass stadium just sitting ready. No effort with permits, buying land, funding, construction, finding a team, negotiating, etc. You just talk price and play. 

Now MLS has a chance to go for it or get in on a smaller stadium. But some say they should go to St. Louis and Sactown, which between them have 2 pro teams? (I don't consider the Kings a pro team).

And MLS should watch while some entrepreneurs host EPL, Chinese, Bundesliga, etc., matches whenever they want, work out deals for travel packages to LA Stadium, the Bay Area, Disneyland, etc. Without even trying to see if an MLS team will work there?

Seriously, is that MLS's best play? The only way you can be certain of losing in not playing.


----------



## pesto

RMB2007;159679732[[/QUOTE said:


> Interesting to see how the proposed stadium at Cashman develops. It would be cheaper and easier to play at Raiders stadium but the experience might not be that good.


----------



## Guest

RMB2007 said:


> https://twitter.com/cristendrummond


Lets how they do, the proposal looks good though. Obviously MLS would never consider the new Vegas stadium, but if this gets anywhere, it throws a spanner for sure, despite Vegas being a questionable MLS market.


----------



## The Game Is Up




----------



## Benn

5portsF4n said:


> Lets how they do, the proposal looks good though. Obviously MLS would never consider the new Vegas stadium, but if this gets anywhere, it throws a spanner for sure, despite Vegas being a questionable MLS market.


It was supposed to be a terrible Hockey market, that seems to be working out as well as one could imagine. I know they don't have the history with the sport that St Louis does but why not a Vegas MLS team, especially if they can get a serious stadium of their own put together?


----------



## pesto

Benn said:


> It was *supposed to be a terrible Hockey market*, that seems to be working out as well as one could imagine. I know they don't have the history with the sport that St Louis does but why not a Vegas MLS team, especially if they can get a serious stadium of their own put together?


Right on, Benn! A short list of supposedly impossible things in CA and Nevada:

the 49ers will never move to SJ/Santa Clara
the NFL will never let the Rams leave STL
the NFL will never let the Chargers leave SD
the NFL will never go to LV
the NFL will never let the Raiders leave Oakland
Carson with 2 teams easily beats Inglewood with the Rams
Mark Davis can’t pull of arranging and funding a move to LV
Chivas LA will never be successful with a downtown stadium
LV is not a football town
LV is not a hockey town
The Clippers will never move to their own arena in Inglewood

And yet, someone saw huge money to be made by building and moving.


----------



## marcvader

You need to evaluate Las Vegas a couple years down the road once the hockey team is no longer novel.


----------



## slipperydog

That said, if the city and local partners are willing to build a soccer specific stadium and provide a quality professional environment, more investment and more opportunities for young American players is never a bad thing for the continued growth of the sport in the country. Can't be seen as anything but a positive.


----------



## pesto

marcvader said:


> You need to evaluate Las Vegas a couple years down the road once the hockey team is no longer novel.


Maybe. Hockey certainly doesn't have the following that soccer potentially has.

But for soccer, the stadium is there with world class amenities, roof, grass; convenient to 100k hotel rooms. It's owner is eager to host MLS and work with you on international friendlies. The tourist board and hotels are going to provide PR and marketing backing (game packages for the men; shows for the women; strippers for both).

And some would rather stick to St. Louis or Sacramento with their "$2 Brat Tuesday for Seniors" promotions? I don't get it.


----------



## mensolú

What is the purpose of those dotted squares/rectangles behind the goal lines and abutting the advertising boards that you see in MLS pitches? As far as I know it's a nowhere-else-but-here thing.


----------



## JJG

pesto said:


> Right on, Benn! A short list of supposedly impossible things in CA and Nevada:
> 
> the 49ers will never move to SJ/Santa Clara
> the NFL will never let the Rams leave STL
> the NFL will never let the Chargers leave SD
> the NFL will never go to LV
> the NFL will never let the Raiders leave Oakland
> Carson with 2 teams easily beats Inglewood with the Rams
> Mark Davis can’t pull of arranging and funding a move to LV
> Chivas LA will never be successful with a downtown stadium
> LV is not a football town
> LV is not a hockey town
> The Clippers will never move to their own arena in Inglewood
> 
> And yet, someone saw huge money to be made by building and moving.


Honestly, no one said about half this stuff.


----------



## ielag

pesto said:


> OK, one more time.
> 
> There are how many cities in the US with international name recognition for sports, entertainment, nightlife, big events? NY, LA, Las Vegas? Maybe Miami?
> 
> Only one of them has full-range casino and sports betting at dozens of locations. And it has a brand new, world class, covered, grass stadium just sitting ready. No effort with permits, buying land, funding, construction, finding a team, negotiating, etc. You just talk price and play.
> 
> Now MLS has a chance to go for it or get in on a smaller stadium. But some say they should go to St. Louis and Sactown, which between them have 2 pro teams? (I don't consider the Kings a pro team).
> 
> And MLS should watch while some entrepreneurs host EPL, Chinese, Bundesliga, etc., matches whenever they want, work out deals for travel packages to LA Stadium, the Bay Area, Disneyland, etc. Without even trying to see if an MLS team will work there?
> 
> Seriously, is that MLS's best play? The only way you can be certain of losing in not playing.


Do you really consider Liverpool and Manchester "sexy" cities?

One thing for sure is MLS's growth has been huge and it's ran by much smarter people than you and your Fan Fiction hopes for the league.


----------



## pesto

JJG said:


> Honestly, no one said about half this stuff.


How quickly people forget! 100 percent documentable if you are interested. Check the relevant threads.

Fans and sports consultants were confident about the 49ers would never move; pundits, fans and consultants spoke with confidence about the power of Anheuser Busch to block the Rams, force Kroenke to sell; the courts to enforce his contract in STL. 

Remember Davis love for Oakland and his father's legacy; and his oath to his mother not to leave Oakland? And SD's claim that Spanos had no place to go (they still believe he will go crawling back soon).

You obviously are not serious about the LV comments since virtually no one said the OPPOSITE re the NFL, Raiders, Davis, hockey, football. The threads laughed about Davis, said the NFL was afraid of gambling; some on this thread are still saying that LV hockey and football are going to fail.

Carson was believed to be ahead of Inglewood by 20 votes within days of the final vote. Supposedly only a "genius" presentation by Demoff carried the day.


----------



## pesto

ielag said:


> Do you really consider Liverpool and Manchester "sexy" cities?
> 
> One thing for sure is MLS's growth has been huge and it's ran by much smarter people than you and your Fan Fiction hopes for the league.


MLS has had huge growth? I believe MLS is far underperforming its potential. A few teams are putting together strong brands. But otherwise, the European leagues are eating Asia for lunch while MLS fusses and fumes over Columbus and such. 

Over time simple economics will push MLS onto the right track. The investors that are in now have wider visions of the future and will work out solutions to get there.


----------



## Guest

Compared to 1996, or the time it almost went kaput, suggesting it hasnt had huge growth is absurd.

Mls operates in a global environment that competes for talent and prestige. Its only goal for now should be to become the biggest soccer league in North America. It’s not there yet, and may not be for several decades. 

Your continual comparison with other countries is incredibly pointless. That battle has been lost already. The top 13 brands today, what I would call the mega clubs (Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, Barca, Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund, PSG, Juventus) are likely to remain among the top 20 clubs for the rest of this century. 

This isnt the appliance industry. These clubs have inherent advantages that will ensure their financial superiority for many decades to come. 

Mls will focus on winning its domestic market first. If it can do that, it will automatically be one of the leading leagues in the world. Maybe then it can start thinking about global domination. What you keep talking about is probably not within our lifetimes.


----------



## pesto

ielag said:


> Do you really consider Liverpool and Manchester "sexy" cities?
> 
> One thing for sure is MLS's growth has been huge and it's ran by much smarter people than you and your Fan Fiction hopes for the league.


You ask me: "Do you really consider Liverpool and Manchester "sexy" cities?"

Good question. But here’s a better one. If you run the EPL what is your strategy for the league and those two cities?

They could focus their attention on strengthening their hold on their home fans and on adding new sides in smaller English cities. Or they could look to expand their footprint in Asia, the Middle East, Africa, the US, etc. For example by holding tournaments there, signing TV deals, finding sponsors, entering into marketing JV’s, etc.

Of course, we know that they have been doing the latter. That’s because there are billions of people with rapidly growing income there (and there are not in the UK generally). 

By contrast, some here are encouraging MLS to focus on their home fans and fourth tier US cities. Not a strong move in my opinion. You should at least make your US moves with cities that can catch the eye of not only the whole country but the whole world and can associate big time product with MLS.


----------



## Guest

pepsi, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it.

On a more serious note, you seem to think it's a question of one or the other. MLS can focus on making MLS the most popular soccer league in the US while - if you can believe it - signing television contracts overseas. You mentioning that at all shows you have absolutely no clue about MLS' overtures internationally. 

Here's a list of global broadcasters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_Major_League_Soccer_broadcasters

Oh you want them to host tournaments overseas? So they can lose money on ventures that no one will give a shit about? The only teams touring and expanding their brands successfully are the clubs that are already the largest sporting institutions on the planet. But yes let's send Colorado and Portland to Vietnam. Give this man a promotion!


----------



## Temporarily Exiled

pesto said:


> You ask me: "Do you really consider Liverpool and Manchester "sexy" cities?"
> 
> Good question. But here’s a better one. If you run the EPL what is your strategy for the league and those two cities?
> 
> They could focus their attention on strengthening their hold on their home fans and on adding new sides in smaller English cities.


Do you understand how football (and professional sport generally) functions in Europe? 'Adding new sides in smaller English cities'... Jesus. There isn't a city in England that doesn't have a football team, with the vast majority of those cities having at least one professional side.


----------



## Guest

Temporarily Exiled said:


> *Do you understand how football (and professional sport generally) functions in Europe*? 'Adding new sides in smaller English cities'... Jesus. There isn't a city in England that doesn't have a football team, with the vast majority of those cities having at least one professional side.


He actually doesn't. Not having a go. He just doesn't understand very basic things in the sport. He talks aplenty but rarely has anything of substance to add because his understanding of the machinations is poor at best. 

He would be aghast to learn that the Premier League had 'added' :lol: teams like Bournemouth and Huddersfield, overlooking Leeds, Nottingham, Sheffield, Bristol. Thankfully they've come to their sense and have rightly installed a team from Sheffield this season :bash: :nuts:


----------



## derzberb

i like this:










source: https://www.mlssoccer.com/

https://www.prosoccerusa.com/mls/portland-timbers/providence-park-construction-photo-gallery-portland-timbers-thorns/


best sss in usa!


----------



## pesto

5portsF4n said:


> pepsi, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it.
> 
> On a more serious note, you seem to think it's a question of one or the other. MLS can focus on making MLS the most popular soccer league in the US while - if you can believe it - signing television contracts overseas. You mentioning that at all shows you have absolutely no clue about MLS' overtures internationally.
> 
> Here's a list of global broadcasters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_Major_League_Soccer_broadcasters
> 
> Oh you want them to host tournaments overseas? So they can lose money on ventures that no one will give a shit about? The only teams touring and expanding their brands successfully are the clubs that are already the largest sporting institutions on the planet. But yes let's send Colorado and Portland to Vietnam. Give this man a promotion!


I think we are starting to get together on this. For sure the major MLS investors know they have no choice but to make overtures abroad and to rationalize their structure to best exploit those markets. They are working on it every day. It's some of the posters here that seem to think that the most important thing going on is St. Louis vs. Sacramento.

That's fine for developing a second division but it's not where the money is going to be. MLS has to look at LV (or anyone else) that leverages Asia because the other leagues will not hesitate to do so. 

Expect to lose money; billions of it. it's called "investment" and how much you put in determines what 2040 and 2050 are going to look like. All the major sides are focused on the same things as literally 10k articles and press releases affirm (new PR reps in Shanghai, a co-branding in Jakarta, player appearances in India, star players posing with Kobe Bryant in LA; Asian tours, American tours).

Some of your other comments are a bit off-subject so I won't address them.


----------



## mensolú

mensolú said:


> What is the purpose of those dotted squares/rectangles behind the goal lines and abutting the advertising boards that you see in MLS pitches? As far as I know it's a nowhere-else-but-here thing.


_Hi Mr XX:

Those dotted areas designate the Video Review area for the referee. MLS instituted Video Assisted Review (VAR) in the 2017 season, and each club is required to have either one at midfield or one at each end line. We've got field-side seats along the sideline, so we have the two areas on either end. If you look closely, you'll also see a video monitor just behind the ad boards at each location, where the referee can jog and check the replay if needed. I hope that answers your question.

Zac Emmons
Senior Director of Communications
Houston Dynamo_


----------



## Guest

pesto said:


> I think we are starting to get together on this. For sure the major MLS investors know they have no choice but to make overtures abroad and to rationalize their structure to best exploit those markets. They are working on it every day. It's some of the posters here that seem to think that the most important thing going on is St. Louis vs. Sacramento.
> 
> That's fine for developing a second division but it's not where the money is going to be. MLS has to look at LV (or anyone else) that leverages Asia because the other leagues will not hesitate to do so.
> 
> Expect to lose money; billions of it. it's called "investment" and how much you put in determines what 2040 and 2050 are going to look like.


For MLS, deciding on the next expansion target _is _the most important thing going on, as well as trying to improve its domestic media deals. The league has a hard enough time trying to beat LigaMX and the PL in its own market. Spending resources in Asia at this juncture isn't going to help change that. What could change that over time is establishing a presence in American cities where the league can continue to build a following. 

As for the money, it's going to be in the hands of the top 15 European clubs in 2050, as it is today. They have a strangehold on interest across as the globe. 

As I said, this isn't the appliance industry. You can't get your way to the top on the back of low wages and a large domestic economy. The major clubs have established their global brands which are going to be _very, very, very_ difficult to upend. And I don't see anyone matching them in spending to acquire players and pay wages anytime soon.

It's a virtuous cycle that is nigh on impossible to break. 

So the best thing MLS can do is focus on its home market, while also making its games available overseas to expand reach, which is basically what it's doing. 

Europe's financial dominance of the game can _only _ be usurped by two markets. One is North America. The other is East Asia, more specifically China. And it would take decades of outspending European teams to get to that point.

I've long maintained that MLS and Liga MX need to work more closely together. Their recently announced cup tournament doesn't go anywhere near far enough. Somehow, in some way, we need to have Liga MX and MLS fans watching the same league. That's the kind of turbocharged move that would change the fortunes of North American soccer overnight. (And no, not the Concacaf Champions League, but a genuine league.) 

If North America can harness fans across the US, Mexico and Canada, it's the only thing that has any hope of ever challenging Europe's wealthiest clubs....and even then it's not particularly likely. 

I think MLS should focus on establishing itself as the best league after the big 5. It's already 7th in revenue and 6th in average attendance. But it's way down the pecking order on salary spending. 

Point is, after less than a quarter of a century, it's overtaken all but the most prestigious domestic leagues in two important metrics......all that on the back of steady growth with no need for any spending splurges on the part of investors. It's simply down to the power of the financial market in North America. One that is only equaled in size by Europe and China.

I think the future's very bright. Now if we could only somehow get Mexico's biggest clubs involved in all this, we could start dreaming about getting to that minimum $1 billion a year media deal that seems vital to becoming a major soccer league. We're ways off that yet, but I hope to see the new deal in 2022 at the very least hit $200 million a year. It might sound ambitious for a league with low ratings, but we all (should) know that's not how these things work.


----------



## pesto

5portsF4n said:


> For MLS, deciding on the next expansion target _is _the most important thing going on, as well as trying to improve its domestic media deals. The league has a hard enough time trying to beat LigaMX and the PL in its own market. Spending resources in Asia at this juncture isn't going to help change that. What could change that over time is establishing a presence in American cities where the league can continue to build a following.
> 
> As for the money, it's going to be in the hands of the top 15 European clubs in 2050, as it is today. They have a strangehold on interest across as the globe.
> 
> As I said, this isn't the appliance industry. You can't get your way to the top on the back of low wages and a large domestic economy. The major clubs have established their global brands which are going to be _very, very, very_ difficult to upend. And I don't see anyone matching them in spending to acquire players and pay wages anytime soon.
> 
> It's a virtuous cycle that is nigh on impossible to break.
> 
> So the best thing MLS can do is focus on its home market, while also making its games available overseas to expand reach, which is basically what it's doing.
> 
> Europe's financial dominance of the game can _only _ be usurped by two markets. One is North America. The other is East Asia, more specifically China. And it would take decades of outspending European teams to get to that point.
> 
> I've long maintained that MLS and Liga MX need to work more closely together. Their recently announced cup tournament doesn't go anywhere near far enough. Somehow, in some way, we need to have Liga MX and MLS fans watching the same league. That's the kind of turbocharged move that would change the fortunes of North American soccer overnight. (And no, not the Concacaf Champions League, but a genuine league.)
> 
> If North America can harness fans across the US, Mexico and Canada, it's the only thing that has any hope of ever challenging Europe's wealthiest clubs....and even then it's not particularly likely.
> 
> I think MLS should focus on establishing itself as the best league after the big 5. It's already 7th in revenue and 6th in average attendance. But it's way down the pecking order on salary spending.
> 
> Point is, after less than a quarter of a century, it's overtaken all but the most prestigious domestic leagues in two important metrics......all that on the back of steady growth with no need for any spending splurges on the part of investors. It's simply down to the power of the financial market in North America. One that is only equaled in size by Europe and China.
> 
> I think the future's very bright. Now if we could only somehow get Mexico's biggest clubs involved in all this, we could start dreaming about getting to that minimum $1 billion a year media deal that seems vital to becoming a major soccer league. We're ways off that yet, but I hope to see the new deal in 2022 at the very least hit $200 million a year. It might sound ambitious for a league with low ratings, but we all (should) know that's not how these things work.


Your first paragraph is doubtful. There is no reason to fight for the STL and Sactown markets. There is no one to fight against because there is very little to win. So assign that to your interns to look into.

As for the most valuable in 2050, you are very wrong. Some will still be there but ONLY because they successfully penetrated the US and Asian markets, which are now wide open. Some current leaders will be afterthoughts and in the shadows of the major US and Asian sides. Hundreds of sides will be worth over 1B.

In general you think things are too hard. That is no doubt the view of some in MLS; every league has its old-timers who think that small town is just fine. But if they stay like that they will be effectively relegated to B league status. The top owners and new multi-billion dollar investors are not going to let the opportunity to take US brands international go by.

Just for thought: look how many EPL sides are owned by foreigners. Specifically, foreigners who poured money, branding, cutting-edge marketing, etc., into the franchise. These are not the local gentry. They are Russians, Arabs, Americans, UK entrepreneurs born poor, etc. 

Likewise, in 2050 the top 50 (or 200) sides will be owned by people who are now starting in business and by then will be buying private islands. It is hard; but it is doable.


----------



## Nacre

I know you care a lot about status, Pesto, but there's no reason MLS needs to be the top league in the world. They need to be profitable, to develop young American and Canadian players, and to grow their local fan bases. The league does not need to be more popular in Bangladesh or Nigeria than the Premier League.


----------



## pesto

Nacre said:


> I know you care a lot about status, Pesto, but there's no reason MLS needs to be the top league in the world. They need to be profitable, to develop young American and Canadian players, and to grow their local fan bases. The league does not need to be more popular in Bangladesh or Nigeria than the Premier League.


Yes, thanks for the comment. I sometimes respond to specific comments rather than looking more generally, so let me generalize a bit.

MLS doesn't need to surpass the EPL or anyone else by 2050 and perhaps they won't. It's not "all or nothing" here. There is an enormous market at stake and getting, say, 10 percent of it, will be enough to make a dozen people billionaires and hundreds quite rich.

Other leagues are working hard to get their percentages; MLS must do so as well or they will suffer. Say a top 20 side is now worth 2B and a MLS side 300M. With MLS doing nothing internationally, ignoring LV, etc., by 2050 that top team may be worth 4B and the MLS team worth 500M. With a full push internationally, the same MLS team could be worth 1B.

So what MLS needs to do is compete with the major leagues for their share; they don't need to blow them away.

And with limited resources, spending them on uncontested small markets is very dubious. Another mouth to feed without a clear path as to how it ever feeds itself. Their ownership had better have some money, talent and willingness to play with the big boys.


----------



## RobH

5portsF4n said:


> He actually doesn't. Not having a go. He just doesn't understand very basic things in the sport. He talks aplenty but rarely has anything of substance to add because his understanding of the machinations is poor at best.
> 
> He would be aghast to learn that the Premier League had 'added' :lol: teams like Bournemouth and Huddersfield, overlooking Leeds, Nottingham, Sheffield, Bristol. Thankfully they've come to their sense and have rightly installed a team from Sheffield this season :bash: :nuts:


Hahaha, I'm glad other people responded to his post to save me the bother. Wasn't sure where to start with it tbh! :lol:


----------



## Nacre

pesto said:


> And with limited resources, spending them on uncontested small markets is very dubious. Another mouth to feed without a clear path as to how it ever feeds itself. Their ownership had better have some money, talent and willingness to play with the big boys.


And yet in the short term small cities like Portland have proven to be very profitable and financially beneficial to the league. And if you want to look at a world class league over a long period of time, then the NFL has somehow managed to remain successful despite having one of its most popular franchises in tiny Green Bay Wisconsin.


----------



## pesto

Nacre said:


> And yet in the short term small cities like Portland have proven to be very profitable and financially beneficial to the league. And if you want to look at a world class league over a long period of time, then the NFL has somehow managed to remain successful despite having one of its most popular franchises in tiny Green Bay Wisconsin.


Nothing is black and white. Some comments: 

Midsized cities like Portland are NOT profitable in and of themselves. Their lack of name recognition makes the marketing of MLS both nationally and internationally more costly and less profitable. Think about trying to market the films "Omaha Adventure" and "Las Vegas Adventure". Which is going to be easier to market in India, China, the Middle East? Or for that matter, Tulsa, OKC and Des Moines? :lol:

Smaller rep teams will be a drag until they can prove otherwise by getting US or foreign broadcasters, JV partners, distributers, etc., clamoring to do deals that include them. 

As I noted above, owners in cities like Portland CAN be useful but need to bring serious money and international marketing expertise or they will at best be marginal contributors and users of funds best spent elsewhere.

Green Bay is a legitimate exception, but from 100 years ago. It's very optimistic to believe any current teams will equal their historical local ownership and support and quality of management. You need to work on it for decades and it's just not worth the money and risk when 2B people in Asia will be joining the middle class and deciding on their favorite sports teams in the next 30 years.


----------



## Guest

pesto said:


> Nothing is black and white. Some comments:
> 
> Midsized cities like Portland are NOT profitable in and of themselves. Their lack of name recognition makes the marketing of MLS both nationally and internationally more costly and less profitable. Think about trying to market the films "Omaha Adventure" and "Las Vegas Adventure". Which is going to be easier to market in India, China, the Middle East? Or for that matter, Tulsa, OKC and Des Moines? :lol:
> 
> Smaller rep teams will be a drag until they can prove otherwise by getting US or foreign broadcasters, JV partners, distributers, etc., clamoring to do deals that include them.
> 
> As I noted above, owners in cities like Portland CAN be useful but need to bring serious money and international marketing expertise or they will at best be marginal contributors and users of funds best spent elsewhere.
> 
> Green Bay is a legitimate exception, but from 100 years ago. It's very optimistic to believe any current teams will equal their historical local ownership and support and quality of management. You need to work on it for decades and it's just not worth the money and risk when 2B people in Asia will be joining the middle class and deciding on their favorite sports teams in the next 30 years.


Care to explain why Arsenal and Chelsea are among the top 10 most popular clubs in the world? 

Where is Arsenal or Chelsea? For all anyone knows, they could be clubs from Lagos, Nigeria. Neither has any connection to London in their name or branding.

You know why they're some of the most popular teams? Because they win trophies, and are competitive year to year. And that's what fans care about, especially international fans. 

It's a simple formula: 

Winning = trophies = increased branding = more fans = more money = buying better players to win you more things = rinse and repeat.

Some of the most recognizable Americans teams: New England Patriots/GB Packers/Golden State Warriors. No city branding. Common denominator? winning.

The Timbers just so happen to be the 4th highest revenue team in MLS. As we've learned, high revenue = potential to spend more on better players = potential for improved branding = potential for more fans. 

Outside of revenue and profitability, in which Timbers rank very highly in MLS, Timbers have played an important role in spreading awareness and credibility of MLS through clips showing their always sold out stadium and great atmosphere. 

From what I've seen of international soccer fans commenting on MLS, the most important teams to growing the league overseas have been the Sounders, Timbers and AUFC.


----------



## Rover030

^^ Yeah the winning = more fans thing is by far the most important part of international popularity.

Having some Huddersfields and Bournemouths in your league doesn't really matter, no one is going to watch all matches each week. People focus on the top clubs. Though in the case of the US spreading the game across the country may be more beneficial than limiting the amount of clubs and allowing a few of them to dominate the league from now on.


----------



## pesto

5portsF4n said:


> Care to explain why Arsenal and Chelsea are among the top 10 most popular clubs in the world?
> 
> Where is Arsenal or Chelsea? For all anyone knows, they could be clubs from Lagos, Nigeria. Neither has any connection to London in their name or branding.
> 
> You know why they're some of the most popular teams? Because they win trophies, and are competitive year to year. And that's what fans care about, especially international fans.
> 
> It's a simple formula:
> 
> Winning = trophies = increased branding = more fans = more money = buying better players to win you more things = rinse and repeat.
> 
> Some of the most recognizable Americans teams: New England Patriots/GB Packers/Golden State Warriors. No city branding. Common denominator? winning.
> 
> The Timbers just so happen to be the 4th highest revenue team in MLS. As we've learned, high revenue = potential to spend more on better players = potential for improved branding = potential for more fans.
> 
> Outside of revenue and profitability, in which Timbers rank very highly in MLS, Timbers have played an important role in spreading awareness and credibility of MLS through clips showing their always sold out stadium and great atmosphere.
> 
> From what I've seen of international soccer fans commenting on MLS, the most important teams to growing the league overseas have been the Sounders, Timbers and AUFC.


Really? On your theory the winners of the Croatian League should be more valuable than 2nd place teams in the EPL. In reality, who knows (or cares) who won even the French, German or Italian leagues? 

But the 6 most valuable UK sides have gotten big investment and made themselves into international brands. Mostly from savvy investors leveraging their history, the big stages of London and Manchester, the cachet that English culture has in Asia, Africa and the US, and billions of marketing savvy.

This article is pretty salient for Chelsea.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2004/may/25/marketingandpr.football

Fifteen years of directed marketing and billions spent on developing the international market per a pre-defined, professionally driven plan. Value from 280M to 2.6B.

The trades are full of deals that the German and other major leagues are now getting into. These include coming after the NY, LA and other major growth cities. MLS is already doing the same, with worldwide representation deals well-along or already in place. Battles over smaller US towns shouldn't detract from this.

And the nice part is that this is consistent with winning, because ¾ of any league will not be funded sufficiently to compete. But it’s even better than winning because 6 or 8 can do it in every league.


----------



## tinyslam

pesto said:


> In reality, who knows (or cares) who won even the French, German or Italian leagues?


You've never heard of PSG, Bayern Munich, or Juventus? C'mon man!


----------



## JJG

tinyslam said:


> You've never heard of PSG, Bayern Munich, or Juventus? C'mon man!


Those are always options in EA Sport's FIFA game demos like every season. There would be_ SOME_ notoriety there, you'd think...


----------



## pesto

tinyslam said:


> You've never heard of PSG, Bayern Munich, or Juventus? C'mon man!


Glad you mentioned them since they all have JV's, training academies, marketing arrangements in China and efforts worldwide (and so do Borussia and others). They all are publicly committed to spend whatever it takes to capture the Asian markets and not leave it to the Brits.

Only hardcore Asian fans know who actually won the various leagues year to year. Most potential fans just know that PSG, Juventus, Dortmund, Inter, etc., are famous teams from their respective countries with lots of followers. They are existing brands that they can choose to follow and attach to. It's very common for people to root for 1 or 2 teams from several leagues; it's not all or nothing.

Of course, individual MLS clubs are very focused outside the US. Some have worldwide PR deals in process. It's money just waiting for takers.


----------



## Jose_Van_Bertel

*Louisville City FC Stadium:*


----------



## RMB2007

> NM United scouts locations for new stadium
> 
> *New Mexico United owner Peter Trevisani and his team is working to scout locations for a new stadium in downtown Albuquerque, according to Albuquerque Business First. *
> 
> They are looking at locations like the Sawmill District and other locations all the way down to the Rail Yards.
> 
> Trevisani said they won't support a stadium unless the neighborhoods and businesses nearby are also on board with it. That's why United is in the process of surveying at their potential locations – to see how people feel about a new stadium.
> 
> United continues to be nationally ranked first for its attendance, with an average of 12,836 people per match, according to Soccer Stadium Digest.


https://www.kob.com/albuquerque-news/nm-united-scouts-locations-for-new-stadium/5405534/


----------



## slipperydog

*Loudoun United FC*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1145719000653008900


----------



## RMB2007

*Louisville City FC*










https://twitter.com/todd_lanham


----------



## slipperydog

*Loudoun United Unveils Naming-Rights Partnership with Segra*



> LEESBURG, Va. – Loudoun United FC announced on Monday a partnership with Segra, which will be the naming rights partner of the new multi-purpose stadium now officially named Segra Field that will become the home of the USL Championship club when it opens in August. The naming rights partnership is a seven-and-a-half year deal going through 2026.


----------



## The Game Is Up

> A potential partnership between the Seattle Sounders, Tacoma Rainiers and Tacoma Metro Parks to build a stadium in central Tacoma could take another step towards reality on Tuesday.
> 
> That’s when the feasibility study is scheduled to go before the Tacoma City Council. Back in January, when Reign FC announced they were moving to Tacoma on a full-time basis, the City gave a brief update on the status of a potential stadium development. The City revealed that the proposal was in the middle of the feasibility study and that more information would be forthcoming at the completion of that process.
> 
> Renderings made their way online in the last month, and sources confirm the feasibility study is complete, and ready to be reviewed by the City Council. The study will presumably outline the economic costs and benefits of the development, including — importantly — the public contribution required to build it.


https://www.sounderatheart.com/thef...3/tacoma-soccer-stadium-proposal-city-council


----------



## slipperydog

*Red Wolves Break Ground on $125 million Stadium Development*



> CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. – Tennessee Governor Bill Lee and other elected officials joined Chattanooga Red Wolves Soccer Club owner Bob Martino in East Ridge on Tuesday morning to break ground on the USL League One club’s future stadium and the surrounding mixed-use development. The event signaled the beginning of a $125 million investment in East Ridge and Chattanooga that will make a significant economic impact on the county, region and state.
> 
> The area in East Ridge along Interstate 75 South will feature a state-of-the-art, soccer-specific stadium, housing, shops, restaurants, a hotel and expansive greenspaces and trails.
> 
> With the idea in mind of creating an experience around soccer, Martino’s plans include apartments and condominiums so people can live nearby the stadium, walk to events and enjoy dining and shopping in the neighborhood. To that end, the plan features 400 apartment and condominium units.
> 
> The plans also include 375 hotel rooms and 475,000 square feet of commercial space. The economic impact will span the region with the creation 1,200 new jobs, not including construction and other businesses.
> 
> Martino has plans for a trail running under Interstate 75 to connect the stadium and the team’s training center at Camp Jordan, which will also increase connections for people in the area.
> 
> Because the stadium layout is soccer specific, it will offer an incredible, up-close experience with amenities like concessions, merchandise, VIP boxes and special areas for fans and families. The stadium will house staff offices, lockers and spaces for the team to meet, review film and train.
> 
> When not in use by the Chattanooga Red Wolves, Dalton Red Wolves or Lady Red Wolves, the stadium will act as a venue for non-sports events, including concerts.


https://www.uslleagueone.com/news_article/show/1033773


----------



## slipperydog

> City of Fort Lauderdale has approved the agreement to build the IMCF Training Facility and Stadium at old Lockhart Site. Proud to collaborate with the @FTLCityNews to create an amazing destination for our fans and community to enjoy. 2020, here we come! #freedomtodream


http://twitter.com/intermiamicf


----------



## GunnerJacket

So, another step closer to reality for Inter Miami, eh? Good news for the league, however... Maybe it's just me but it really itches my brain to see they chose "Free_*dom*_ to dream" instead of the traditional "Free to dream!"


----------



## RMB2007

https://www.wave3.com/2019/07/10/its-going-up-fast-take-look-inside-loucity-fc-stadium/












> The new Louisville City FC stadium is taking shape on Cable and Adams streets in Butchertown.
> 
> The stadium's construction is on budget and on time, according to project manager Jason Larkin of Messer Construction.
> 
> The 11,300-seat soccer stadium is the centerpiece of a $200 million mixed-use development on 40 acres across from Louisville's waterfront.


https://www.wdrb.com/news/crews-fin...cle_5ec238ee-a34c-11e9-ba89-0bff1ba7eee3.html


----------



## RMB2007

> United CEO apologizes for Allianz Field growing pains
> 
> The CEO of Minnesota United apologized to soccer fans Thursday for some recent growing pains at the new Allianz Field stadium in St. Paul.
> 
> Team CEO Chris Wright said in a statement that fans have experienced long lines and a shortage of food and beverage services at Allianz Field in the past week. The stadium's beer hall was open for the Women's World Cup championship on Sunday.
> 
> The team said it's working on improving some of the shortcomings during its inaugural season at the stadium. Wright said the team is working on "how we can be successful in every possible situation and conditions."


https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/07/11/united-ceo-apologizes-for-allianz-field-growing-pains


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## slipperydog

*Hartford Athletic*



> In the final day of our #CountdownToDillon, we give you a sneak peak of the new Dillon Stadium! Come see for yourself and make history with us as we take on Indy Eleven TOMORROW at 5pm!


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1148589290202587137


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## slipperydog

*Hartford Athletic*



> FINAL SCORE: Hartford Athletic 2, Indy Eleven 1. We pull the upset and win our first-ever match at Dillon Stadium!!!!

























































































https://twitter.com/USLChampionship
https://twitter.com/GoYardGoats
https://twitter.com/MayorBronin
https://twitter.com/andrewscp7
https://twitter.com/McFarland_Shawn


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## slipperydog

*Loudoun United FC*



























https://twitter.com/LoudounUnitedFC


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## JJG

slipperydog said:


> *Hartford Athletic*
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> https://twitter.com/USLChampionship
> https://twitter.com/GoYardGoats
> https://twitter.com/MayorBronin
> https://twitter.com/andrewscp7
> https://twitter.com/McFarland_Shawn


...why is the press box off center?


----------



## Temporarily Exiled

slipperydog said:


> *Loudoun United FC*
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Is this a permanent structure?


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## en1044

Temporarily Exiled said:


> Is this a permanent structure?


Probably. It's a little annoying too...I don't know why northern VA can't have nice things. Pfitzner Stadium in Woodbridge looks like garbage, and now this. Hopefully there's room here to expand.


----------



## RMB2007

https://twitter.com/scottstrasser19










https://twitter.com/WestShoreVOICE












> The new stands @ Langford’s Westhills Stadium are nearing completion along the west side of the field.
> 
> The stands were delivered from Italy for Pacific FC’s arrival to Victoria, and will markedly increase the stadium’s attendee capacity.


https://twitter.com/VibrantVictoria


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## ielag

Temporarily Exiled said:


> Is this a permanent structure?


No, it's a modular stadium similar to those in Phoenix and Sacramento.


----------



## Benn

The 3D seat viewer for the new Louisville City stadium is live:

https://3ddigitalvenue.com/3dmap/clients/louisvillecityfc/


----------



## AlexeiSmirnoff

The games are usually at night? I seen the last photos that the stadiums lack of shadows if the game is in the day.


----------



## RMB2007

*Louisville City FC*




























https://vimeo.com/user43780596


----------



## The Game Is Up

> Louisville City Football Club has unveiled the name for its new $65 million stadium in Butchertown.
> 
> The club announced Monday the state-of-the-art venue will be named Lynn Family Stadium, named after Dr. Mark Lynn and his family.
> 
> The Lynn family owns more than 50 VisionWorks stores in Kentucky and several other areas.
> 
> "We are thrilled to be able to contribute not only to the development and appreciation of soccer but to the Louisville community as a whole," said Dr. Mark and Cindy Lynn. "We have been fans of Louisville City FC since its inception, so this truly fits what we are passionate about."
> 
> "The Lynn family are the perfect fit for Louisville City because they believe in the same things we do as an organization: family, community and success," LouCity President Brad Estes said. "We feel fortunate to have a long-term partnership with a naming rights sponsor who aligns with our club’s values."
> 
> The club did not announce what the Lynn family paid for the stadium's naming rights, but the family committed to a 10-year partnership.


https://www.wlky.com/article/louisville-city-fc-unveils-name-for-new-65-million-stadium/28610932


----------



## slipperydog

*OKC Energy FC*



> A presentation Tuesday pitched a proposed outdoor stadium as not only a new home for OKC Energy, but as a venue that could draw events to Oklahoma City.
> 
> Oklahoma City officials are considering potential projects that could be included in a MAPS (Metropolitan Area Projects) 4 initiative. Several ideas were presented to city officials Tuesday, including a proposed outdoor multipurpose stadium.
> 
> Backers of the proposed stadium are calling for it to be centrally located, with a design that makes it equipped to handle multiple types of events. It would become the new home of USL Championship‘s OKC Energy–which currently plays at Taft Stadium–while also hosting other soccer matches, high school football, rugby, festivals, concerts, and more.
> 
> Officials say there are two options to build the venue, each with new amenities and features. *The first option represented a $37 million to $42 million investment for an 8,000-seat stadium* that would accommodate soccer, high school football, rugby, lacrosse, concerts and festivals.
> 
> Organizers believe it could host more than 60 events each year, which would bring $60 million annually to the city.
> 
> *The second option was a $67 million to $72 million investment with 10,000 seats*, shade structures and other amenities to improve the fan experience. Additional restrooms would be included, along with a larger stage and secondary stage. Organizers say this venue could host more than 80 events each year, which would bring over $79 million to the city.


https://soccerstadiumdigest.com/2019/08/proposed-outdoor-stadium-would-host-okc-energy/


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## GunnerJacket

That's pretty sharp. I'm not keen on the gaps in the roof over the concourse areas but the design on the whole seems top-notch for a facility that size. Would be a strong addition to the country's list of soccer stadia.


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## slipperydog

*Loudoun United FC*


































































https://twitter.com/LoudounUnitedFC
https://twitter.com/GoSegra
https://twitter.com/SoccerInsider


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## eric the midget

Would have been cool to try and implement that hill into the stadium design. Maybe some sort of family sitting area.


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## OzStadiumGeek

Cool looking little stadium. Out of curiosity, where would the players' change/locker rooms be located?


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## krnboy1009

OzStadiumGeek said:


> Cool looking little stadium. Out of curiosity, where would the players' change/locker rooms be located?


Underneath the Loudon United stand?

The stadium looks cheap. Not that that is necessarily a bad thing for an MLS reserve side. Its pretty much all they need. Except where are they selling concessions from?


----------



## OzStadiumGeek

krnboy1009 said:


> Underneath the Loudon United stand?
> 
> The stadium looks cheap. Not that that is necessarily a bad thing for an MLS reserve side. Its pretty much all they need. Except where are they selling concessions from?


Yeah that was my thought too, just seemed though by the look of the photos that there would be a lot of scaffolding behind that stand!


----------



## JohnDee

How do people like the DC united Stadium?


----------



## OzStadiumGeek

JohnDee said:


> How do people like the DC united Stadium?


Aesthetically it's not as good looking compared to the other recently opened soccer stadiums in the U.S. Something about the one tier seating at the back. But I'm sure the amenities are probably top notch. It must be a million times better than RFK though..


----------



## GunnerJacket

JohnDee said:


> How do people like the DC united Stadium?


From folks on another board the general consensus is it's workable. It does have a lot of the modern amenities, it's intimate and provides great views and capable of solid atmosphere, the location works, and it's something decidedly made for DCU. So it's home.

What they dislike is the lack of shade (most wish the awning went all the way around), most agree the one "open" corner looks odd, and they wish there was more space and "DCU stuff" outside the venue for people to gather before and after matches. One patron said it gives off minor league vibes and doesn't seem like it's worthy of, or capable of, hosting (WTTE) "a big time champion." I think that's the setting at play: Whereas other comparably sized MLS venues are set aside well enough that they stand out and people have plenty of space to tailgate and such, Audi Field can appear nondescript within this neighborhood. If the fans were to spill out after winning MLS Cup would that space be big enough/ Special enough for a celebration? 

But context matters, too. This is a stadium that's in the heart of the District as fans wanted, it fits DCU's budget (MLS =/= Premier League), and it's definitively more optimal than RFK. The lingering hope is this is a functional stepping stone to either a renovated and expanded Audi Field a generation from now or something bigger and better elsewhere.


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## ryebreadraz

JohnDee said:


> How do people like the DC united Stadium?


It's one of the worst stadiums in MLS. I understand that DC fans and the club are happy they got a stadium, any stadium, built because RFK was untenable and their long-term future in the district was in doubt until they got a stadium built. They also had an especially small plot of land to build on that limited things. Even so, the stadium is terrible, both from a design standpoint and how the club has operated it.

Pros: It exists and, as a result, so does MLS in DC for the foreseeable future.
Cons: Everything else.


----------



## eric the midget

One of the worst? Just a tad hyperbolic. 

Dick's Sporting Goods Park(Colorado)
Dignity Health Sports Park(LA)
Mapfre Stadium (Columbus)
Rio Tinto Stadium(RSL)
Seat Geek Stadium(Chicago)
Talen Energy Stadium(Philadelphia)
Yankee Stadium

There may be more based on one's taste, but these are the stadiums that Audi Field is no doubt better than.


----------



## Guest

The problem for audi field is that it was built in an era of much better looking new MLS stadiums, so it will be looked down on because of that.


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## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> The problem for audi field is that it was built in an era of much better looking new MLS stadiums, so it will be looked down on because of that.


Pretty much this. A generation ago Chicago's Toyota Stadium was the future for MLS, an upgrade over the stripped down Crew Stadium. Now by comparison that venue is viewed as bare bones. Audi Field is an upgrade over Chicago's current home but not quite at the front of design that some other venues have shown. Thus, it's viewed with a more critical eye by default. 

Bottom line, the venues for MLS teams are steadily improving. 

Related note: It will be interesting to see what, if anything, NYCFC offers from a design standpoint. Sure the Emirate has money but with each year the costs and expectations for a good MLS venue goes up. Will they feel the need to compromise on the design side in order to save some money a la DCU?


----------



## Sheppard Fiddler

eric the midget said:


> One of the worst? Just a tad hyperbolic.
> 
> Dick's Sporting Goods Park(Colorado)
> Dignity Health Sports Park(LA)
> Mapfre Stadium (Columbus)
> Rio Tinto Stadium(RSL)
> Seat Geek Stadium(Chicago)
> Talen Energy Stadium(Philadelphia)
> Yankee Stadium
> 
> There may be more based on one's taste, but these are the stadiums that Audi Field is no doubt better than.



Woah, stop just there, this is unfair - what about Toyota Stadium, Dallas (Frisco)? I haven't seen the latest renovation attempt but that place is was creaking long ago.


----------



## Benn

5portsF4n said:


> The problem for audi field is that it was built in an era of much better looking new MLS stadiums, so it will be looked down on because of that.


The problem with Audi Field is that its an ugly, awkwardly put together building. The competition is a lot stronger than it used to be but just on its own merits, its poorly composed, looks cheap and has clunky proportions. 

Orlando built a rather simple, but solid stadium that isn't ground breaking design, but is a very practical, pleasant, well put together stadium. Audi field had a much bigger budget and is actively ugly IMO. Stadiums like Rio Tinto, Exploria Stadium or Dignity Health are plain, this is bad. And if you start comparing it to Banc of California, Allianz Field or Children's Mercy Park its miles behind the curve. Even Avaya in San Jose, which was done as cheaply as possible is better composed than this.

In their defense they had an awkward little site to work with, some underground utilities that couldn't be moved and a notoriously difficult city to work with when it comes to getting a building up, but its an actively ugly building.


----------



## eric the midget

Sheppard Fiddler said:


> Woah, stop just there, this is unfair - what about Toyota Stadium, Dallas (Frisco)? I haven't seen the latest renovation attempt but that place is was creaking long ago.


Good catch, completely forgot that one. A turd of a stadium indeed.


----------



## JJG

eric the midget said:


> Good catch, completely forgot that one. A turd of a stadium indeed.


"A turd" would be Oakland Coliseum. 

Toyota Stadium was renovated and added the U.S. Soccer Hall of Fame... for some reason.


----------



## ryebreadraz

eric the midget said:


> One of the worst? Just a tad hyperbolic.
> 
> Dick's Sporting Goods Park(Colorado)
> Dignity Health Sports Park(LA)
> Mapfre Stadium (Columbus)
> Rio Tinto Stadium(RSL)
> Seat Geek Stadium(Chicago)
> Talen Energy Stadium(Philadelphia)
> Yankee Stadium
> 
> There may be more based on one's taste, but these are the stadiums that Audi Field is no doubt better than.


Most of those stadiums are better than Audi Field. From design, to activation of space, to allocation of seats, most of those are solid and get the job done. They're not groundbreaking or among the best in MLS, but DSG, DHSP, Rio Tinto, Seat Geek and Talen Energy are all better than Audi and easily so.


----------



## eric the midget

We will have to agree to disagree then.


----------



## hngcm

MLS to add St. Louis as 28th team:

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/soc...cle_47898ab1-f45f-5194-b533-b5c40e474547.html


----------



## slipperydog

*Colorado Springs Switchbacks FC*



> The new downtown home for USL Championship club Colorado Springs Switchbacks FC will play host to the NCAA Division II Men’s and Women’s Soccer Championship in 2021, it was announced on Wednesday.
> 
> The championships, which are typically held a weekend apart in early December, is the first prestige soccer event added to the new venue’s schedule, with the *Switchbacks anticipated to begin play at the 8,000-seat facility in spring of the 2021 Championship season.*
> 
> The new venue, which is *set to begin construction in November* near the intersection of Cimarron and Sierra Madre in downtown Colorado Springs, is one of the outstanding new venues currently in planning or construction by Championship clubs.


https://www.uslchampionship.com/news_article/show/1046734


----------



## Jose_Van_Bertel




----------



## hngcm

Sacramento Republic very close to a deal to become MLS' 29th franchise:

https://www.sacbee.com/sports/mls/article234750677.html


----------



## CaliforniaJones

There'll be 32 teams in the MLS in the future. There should be 4 divisions instead of 2 conferences.


----------



## Franchise646

Don't think that is going to be how it's going to happen, they aren't more cities really worth it for MLS to add. MY guess they stay at 30 teams, 2 15 team conferences, a 30 games regular season Home and Away with a 4 or 5 game playoff. That way they cut down and save on travel like they want to so badly.


----------



## aquamaroon

Personally I could see MLS ending up with 32 teams, don't know how likely it'd be but it wouldn't be crazy. Off the top of my head here are some potential metro markets currently without a MLS team that have shown interest and already have a "Big 4" Sport in town:

- Phoenix
- Detroit
- Charlotte
- Las Vegas
- Indianapolis
- Tampa
- San Diego

Only need 3 of those cities, out of 7, to get to 32!


----------



## JJG

Franchise646 said:


> Don't think that is going to be how it's going to happen,* they aren't more cities really worth it for MLS to add.*


You sure about that? 

The poster below you named off quite a few...


----------



## Franchise646

JJG said:


> You sure about that?
> 
> The poster below you named off quite a few...


Ok Vegas and Detroit. But they league is out of cities that are big needs and there are teams that need to fix their stadium situation.


----------



## Temporarily Exiled

aquamaroon said:


> Personally I could see MLS ending up with 32 teams, don't know how likely it'd be but it wouldn't be crazy. Off the top of my head here are some potential metro markets currently without a MLS team that have shown interest and already have a "Big 4" Sport in town:
> 
> - Phoenix
> - Detroit
> - Charlotte
> - Las Vegas
> - Indianapolis
> - Tampa
> - San Diego
> 
> Only need 3 of those cities, out of 7, to get to 32!


Take all 7! 36 is divisible by 2, 3 and 4, making it a good number however you want to slice things up.


----------



## Guest

The problem with 4 divisions of 8 is the schedule. If you play everyone in your division twice plus everyone else once, you end up with a 38 game season, which I don't think MLS wants. 

You could go down the route of 4 team divisions. That way you play everyone in your division twice for 6 games, and everyone else once, for 28 games, totaling 34 games, which is how many regular season games there are in MLS right now.


----------



## Guest

Franchise646 said:


> Don't think that is going to be how it's going to happen, they aren't more cities really worth it for MLS to add. *MY guess they stay at 30 teams*, 2 15 team conferences, a 30 games regular season Home and Away with a 4 or 5 game playoff. That way they cut down and save on travel like they want to so badly.


I can guarantee you that you're most definitely wrong on this one. Rumors of Sacramento at 29 done, which leaves Charlotte, Phoenix and one of Detroit or Vegas or whoever else makes a strong bid to round out the 32.


----------



## OzStadiumGeek

Thirty-two teams seems to be a much rounder number to play with. Four conferences of eight teams each, each team playing each other team in its own conference twice, then everyone else once, equalling 38 matches. 16 teams through to the Finals, assuming it would be knockout home-and-away through to semi final stage, then a one match final, making it a total of 45 matches. Very do-able, considering the lower English leagues (Championship and below) play 46 matches in the home and away season.
The question is how quick do you expand to 32? I think most would agree that it will be the absolute final cutoff number so MLS will want to get it 100% right in choosing the last few spots as to not exclude any future markets. Just look how quick Cincinnati, St Louis and Salt Lake a few years back rose to the top of the expansion pile.
I understand the reasons and objections to it, but it would be interesting to see a true second division with promotion and relegation


----------



## BoulderGrad

23: LAFC 2018
24: FC Cincy 2019
25: Miami 2020
26: Nashville 2020
27: Austin 2021
28: Saint Louis 2022
29: Sacramento 2022

Team 30: 2023
Team 31: 2024
Team 32: 2024-25?


----------



## slipperydog

The latest odds from Soccer Stadium Digest for spots 30, 31, and 32.

Las Vegas: 1-1
Charlotte: 1-1 
Phoenix: 3-1
Indianapolis: 5-1
Raleigh: 12-1
San Diego: 25-1

https://soccerstadiumdigest.com/201...t-mls-expansion-round-september-2019-edition/


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## Guest

The Foley bid would be a no-go you would imagine. I’d have Charlotte locked in for 30, with Phoenix and Las Vegas in for 31st.


----------



## Guest

Juanpabloangel said:


> I would have thought a three way split of the MLS would work better than 4 for the league, dare I say that it could get to 3 regions with 10 and then up to 12 teams each. The argument that you can not have a team close to another only works if you are likely to dilute the potential support. Where you look at the barrios of Buenos Aires or the London Boroughs, its clearly possible to support any number of teams, talent is more the pre requisite. With soccer specific stadia mostly at 25k max, there is a self imposed ceiling put on each team anyway.


You're thinking about it from a fan's perspective. 

Right now, with the addition of Sacramento reported to being close to finalized, there is ongoing negotiation about splitting the territorial rights between Sacramento and San Jose. These cities are 120 miles apart. It is the equivalent of Manchester United and Leicester City having discussions on what constitutes their territory. 

The owners of the MLS clubs, who run the league, decide on expansion based on a couple of different things, which include but are not limited to: 

- A city which ranks high in the number of TV homes, as broadcast will become increasingly important for the league as time goes by

- A city that has big companies/corporate support that will sponsor the teams; since MLS is single entity, all commercial revenue is pooled and shared. So as an owner, you want whoever gets an expansion team to be able to bring in good commercial revenues, since revenues have to be split and you don't want that share diluting

- Geographic concerns. The argument isn't so much whether you can or can't have teams close to each other. That's worked well for MLS because it promotes rivalries. The problem is having too many cities close to each other, especially when options exist which expand the footprint of the league (and this issue also goes back to territorial rights, which existing clubs will rightly want to defend). You say that 25k seaters impose limits, but we aren't talking about Louisville residents going to Cincinnati to watch games. We're talking about potential crossover in TV viewership. 

The difference in Argentina or the UK is that both Buenos Aires and London are primate cities. BA has 14 million people, the next one has closer to 1m. London has 10-11 million, the next biggest has 2.5m. It is only natural that Buenos Aires and London, in which soccer happens to the biggest sport in which the existing clubs started out well over a century ago as essentially amateur teams, have a large number of clubs. When (Woolwich) Arsenal was formed, they didn't have to fork over a $200 million expansion fee and build a $250m stadium. And not to mention that promotion/relegation is an accepted way of life in both countries, meaning that no clubs could prevent others starting up anywhere they wanted. 

Three way split doesn't work well, at least I haven't seen a format which suggests that it could. To make three regional leagues work you'd have to expand the number of regular season games, and MLS has given no indication it wants to do that. 

I think the NFL model is the way forward. 

32 teams. 2 conferences. 8 divisions. Regular season remains at current 34 games. 2x division (6 games), 1x everyone else (28 games) comes to 34 games. 

First and second teams in each division qualify for playoffs, with seeding based on conference standing like NBA. 16 team single leg elimination. 

It makes too much sense. And it keeps more teams in the hunt for longer. And it will send divisional/regional rivalries to new heights in the same way it does in the NFL. Sounders vs Portland, LAFC v LAG, SKC vs St Louis, San Jose v (Sacramento), Cincy v Columbus, NYCFC v NYRB, TFC v Montreal, Orlando v Miami, all of them are neat matchups in a 2-conference setup.....but they'll mean so much more in a divisional setup where results against your closest rivals take on greater importance.

To me it's so logical that I would be baffled if this wasn't what they concocted at MLS HQ.


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> I think the NFL model is the way forward.
> 
> 32 teams. 2 conferences. 8 divisions. Regular season remains at current 34 games. 2x division (6 games), 1x everyone else (28 games) comes to 34 games.


I wouldn't be outright opposed to this, but I do think there will be some dilemmas in where to draw those lines. Who's the 4th in Cascadia if you try to keep the California clubs together? If you group Atlanta with the Fla franchises (blech) do you add Nashville or Carolina as the 4th? And so on. Not saying it's a deal breaker but it will dilute the magic of the approach.

Which begs the question about how much your geography angle will play into future expansion decisions.


----------



## Guest

GunnerJacket said:


> I wouldn't be outright opposed to this, but I do think there will be some dilemmas in where to draw those lines. Who's the 4th in Cascadia if you try to keep the California clubs together? If you group Atlanta with the Fla franchises (blech) do you add Nashville or Carolina as the 4th? And so on. Not saying it's a deal breaker but it will dilute the magic of the approach.
> 
> Which begs the question about how much your geography angle will play into future expansion decisions.


Both valid points, and it's exactly why I think geography is playing a big role in expansion. I would add that in soccer, there is currently no rivalry between the likes of Atlanta or Nashville or Charlotte, so splitting them up would be pretty easy. There is the Orlando Atlanta rivalry, however nascent, so I'd stick with that and build around that and the obvious Orlando Miami rivalry of the future. 

(Unannounced expansion clubs in bold)

WEST
1: Seattle/Portland/Vancouver/Minnesota
2: LAFC/LAG/San Jose/*Sacramento*
3: Dallas/Houston/Austin/Nashville
4: Salt Lake/*Las Vegas*/*Phoenix*/Colorado

EAST
1: Toronto/Montreal/Columbus/Cincinnati
2: New England/NYCFC/NYRB/Philadelphia
3: SKC/St Louis/Chicago/DC United
4: Atlanta/Miami/Orlando/*Charlotte*

Minnesota and DCU have to be shuffled around to accommodate, and it's a shame not to pair Minn with Chicago or DC with NY, but at the end of the day they'd still play each other once, and DC/NY would still be in the same conference. 

The layout would change a bit if, say, Detroit got in ahead of Las Vegas, but I think Sacramento, Phoenix and Charlotte are safe bets at this point. So it would really all boil down to Las Vegas vs Detroit, and at this point Las Vegas seems to be in the lead by some margin. I think we're pretty close to getting to a finalized MLS with expansion halted and all teams decided, and we can more or less figure out what it'll look like even now.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Yeah, it's gonna get messy and imperfect either way. Will be interesting to see what they do, and for how long they hold to that model. 



5portsF4n said:


> I would add that in soccer, there is currently no rivalry between the likes of Atlanta or Nashville or Charlotte, so splitting them up would be pretty easy. There is the Orlando Atlanta rivalry, however nascent...


As an Atlanta fan I can tell you we are all anxious to have Nashville in the league as a close road trip and a potential rival. Would view the same with Charlotte even more so since the cities are already rivals in the NFL, NBA, and in many business ventures. We play up the Orlando "rivalry" only because it's been heaped upon us but in speaking with many other season ticket holders we wouldn't miss having this series reduced to typical eastern conference play. But that's just me.


----------



## OzStadiumGeek

Is the East Bay Stadium in the Oakland area still on the cards?


----------



## Guest

GunnerJacket said:


> Yeah, it's gonna get messy and imperfect either way. Will be interesting to see what they do, and for how long they hold to that model.
> 
> As an Atlanta fan I can tell you we are all anxious to have Nashville in the league as a close road trip and a potential rival. Would view the same with Charlotte even more so since the cities are already rivals in the NFL, NBA, and in many business ventures. We play up the Orlando "rivalry" only because it's been heaped upon us but in speaking with many other season ticket holders we wouldn't miss having this series reduced to typical eastern conference play. But that's just me.


Something will have to give no doubt. And I think the big sticking point is 34. It seems clear that we're not going above that, but it may be lowered to accommodate for other competitions in the future, like the Leagues Cup. Don even said as much: "We're going to move the end of our season a little bit earlier, we'll give our teams an opportunity to both rest, but perhaps participate in other competitions and ultimately give us something that I think will transform in the league going forward."

I'd love to see someone create a 34 game regular season schedule or less with 32 teams that all play each other at least once that doesn't include an 8 division split. I've tried, nothing works! If anyone has a good proposal I'd love to see it. 

What a divisional split would also do is make people more likely to watch games from divisional rivals, something which MLS struggles with quite a bit. Getting neutrals to watch games is a big part of MLS' ratings problem. In a two or three conference league with no divisions there is just no reason for me to care about watching other teams. 

As a Jets fan, I'm watching the AFC East teams play a lot. As an SKC fan, I couldn't care less about the other western teams. I'll check a result or highlight, but I'm not watching their games unless there's a good amount of stars playing.


----------



## Chevy114

Is there a chance that minor league soccer towns support their teams as well as minor league baseball towns do? Chattanooga, Dayton, and Durham all come to mind when I think of cities that love their team and don't feel bad that they aren't in the top tier.


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## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> As *a Jets fan*, I'm watching the AFC East teams play a lot.


Kudos for that. Raised in an extended family of predominantly Giants fans I proudly rebelled and adopted the New York Sack Exchange as my 2nd team (after Atlanta) back in the day.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Chevy114 said:


> Is there a chance that minor league soccer towns support their teams as well as minor league baseball towns do? Chattanooga, Dayton, and Durham all come to mind when I think of cities that love their team and don't feel bad that they aren't in the top tier.


MLS would do good to look to the NHL and its minor leagues for a model. 

Have USL Championship teams act as separate entities with separate identities, but are still nominally development teams and some are even owned by the nearby MLS side. Put them in secondary markets that would strongly support a team, but just aren't big enough to host an MLS squad. 

A few good example being: Sounders 2 becoming the Tacoma Defiance, and them and Louisville and Colorado Springs building their own "minor league SSSs".


----------



## OzStadiumGeek

5portsF4n said:


> I'd love to see someone create a 34 game regular season schedule or less with 32 teams that all play each other at least once that doesn't include an 8 division split. I've tried, nothing works! If anyone has a good proposal I'd love to see it.


I've thought about this in the past. If there was 32 teams in the competition, my proposal would be:
* A 32 match regular season
* Each team plays each other team once - either at home or away (total = 31 matches)
* Each team plays one other team for a second time - home or away, depending on where they played the first time. This second match can be used for "rivalry" matches for example
* Total is 32 matches
* No need for "divisions" or "conferences". With all teams playing each just once (except for the "rivalry" round), it is pretty fair when determining the teams who advance to the finals (be it 12 or 16 teams for example)
* The competition schedule can be set against a two year cycle (for arguments sake, let's say a cycle is an odd year and an even year e.g. 2019 and 2020). Even though it is two distinct seasons, the schedules across these two seasons would ensure that each team would have a home game against each other team. For example, in 2019 if Atlanta hosts Seattle, then in 2020 Seattle would host Atlanta. In 2021, Seattle could potentially host Atlanta again, but in 2022 the schedule would ensure Atlanta hosts Seattle, etc.
* My preference for a Finals series would be 12 teams. It means that only the best teams advance to the playoffs. My format would be as follows:

Qualifying Finals: Seeds 1 to 4 BYE. (A) 5 v 12 (B) 6 v 11 (C) 7 v 10 (D) 8 v 9. All matches are "one off", with the winners advancing to Quarter Finals

Quarter Finals: (E) 1 v 4th Highest Seed Winner Qual. Finals (F) 4 v Highest Seed Winner Qual. Finals (G) 2 v 3rd Highest Seed Winner Qual. Finals (H) 3 v 2nd Highest Seed Winner Qual. Finals. Matches are played over two legs - home and away

Semi Finals: (I) Winner E v Winner F (J) Winner G v Winner H. Matches are played over two legs - home and away

Final: Winner I v Winner J. Match is a one off. Venue can either be the higher seed, or my preference would be a venue that has bid to host the Final, similar to the Super Bowl.

All up, home and away season, plus finals, there is 38 matches, which is pretty standard world-wide.


----------



## Guest

It's certainly an idea, although not one I'd be too fond of if I'm being perfectly honest.

Having playoffs means that it doesn't really matter whether or not the regular season was unbalanced in terms of schedule. What's important is to minimize travel and make the most of regional matchups. 

And it's very unlikely MLS will have a 12 team playoffs in a 32 team league. It'd be 16. The league has also indicated that two-legged ties could be going the way of the dodo as well.

Ultimately it has to be a conference or divisional system (or mixture of both). 

The proposal I suggested on the previous page ticks all the boxes. 

-Home and away games against nearby regional rivals.
-12 games against teams in the same conference. 
-And 16 games against teams from other conference, with 8 of those being away and 8 being at home. That means western/eastern teams only have to travel 8 times outside their conference a year, which is ideal for minimizing travel. 

On top of that you get teams staying in the playoff hunt for longer with top 2 in each division getting playoff spots, while conference can decide seeding, meaning there is still lots of emphasis on finishing atop the conference standing. 

I'm sure others have had this same idea, and I'm fairly confident MLS brass would've stumbled upon it too. 

As much as I want a 2 conference system with home and away against all conference teams as we have today, it just doesn't work in a 32 team league if you want to keep the same amount of regular season games. 

The 8 division/2 conference system is perfect. Every time I think about it I'm more convinced that it's the right way to go.

Now...if the league goes to 30 teams, then give me MLB's 6 division, 2 conference playoff system but with top 2 in each group going through. 

That'd be 33 regular season games, and Gunner can keep both of his rivalries with Charlotte and Nashville in tact.


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## OzStadiumGeek

Yeah, the 12 team finals is more of a personal choice! We've had some history here is Australia with various sporting leagues "over-compensating" and awarding far too many teams spots in a finals series. Our National Basketball League at one stage in the mid-2000's awarded the 8 teams in an 11 team competition a spot in the finals!! I like the idea of having less than 50% of the teams qualifying for finals - and generally you would eliminate teams progressing with win-loss ratio of less than 50%.

In this day and age I think travel is less of an issue. Players have a wealth of resources available for recovery. 

I agree, my schedule only allows for one rivalry matchup to be played home-and-away, which is a drawback. You could always increase the number of rounds by an extra two (to 34) which would allow each team to play three other teams for a second time. A few issues I find with a conference system is that you don't get to play every other team. It's always a talking point here in Australia with our two main winter sports - NRL (Rugby League) and AFL (Aussie Rules). The competitions have 16 and 18 teams respectively, and play 24 and 22 matches per team each. Each team plays each other team atleast once, but will then also play a number of teams a second time to make up the total matches. There's always an argument around the "unbalanced" schedule, and some teams getting an "favourable" draw, and there is always so much pre-season analysis around each teams schedule. I would imagine by not playing ALL the teams at least once that this would be even more of a talking point, although I understand that the NFL does it this way.

My other issue with a conference system is that it quite often rewards teams with less points than a team in the opposing conference a spot in the finals. For example, using the MLS table as of now (according to Wikipedia.....), 7th place in the East is New England on 39 points and currently in a playoff spot. In the West, LA Galaxy sit in 8th, but with 42 points, and out of a playoff spot. To highlight this in a more extreme way, check out the Women's AFL (Aussie Rules) season standings for 2019, with the top two in each conference going through to the finals....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_AFL_Women%27s_season#Ladders

Also, as a fan, I'd be a little disappointed if my team didn't play, for example, the reigning champions, or a particular team with a particular star player (Inter Miami FC & Lionel Messi, or maybe Usain Bolt might make another attempt at a pro career :lol::lol::lol:??!!)


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^It's always a delicate balance of national exposure vs regional rivalries. No league in the US does a totally balanced schedule for good reason. And soccer is a totally different animal since the season is long and spread out. 

Once the league reaches 32 teams, there's no reasonable way to play every team in a season and still have the geographic rivalries the league loves so much (i.e. there's no way the league would only have Seattle play Portland and/or Vancouver once). 

It'll likely be: 
-Play each team in your 8 team division two times (14 games), 
-Each team in the rest of the conference once (8 games) 
-12 games against the remaining opponents in the opposite conference

Leaving a 34 game schedule, and 4 teams you don't play. 

If you bump that up to 38 games like the premier league does, then you can get at least once against every team in the league and still have your home and away against in division opponents, but I'd bet if the league goes to 38 games, they'd rather do 3 games against in division opponents and cut down on the number of intra-conference games instead. so...

-3 games against in division opponents (21 games)
-1 game against the rest of the conference (8 games)
-1 game against 9 teams of the opposite conference. (9 games)

Or perhaps it could be 2 in division games per team, plus an extra 2 "rivalry matchups". Like Seattle plays Portland and Vancouver 3 times, and the rest of the teams in the west twice (16 games+ 8 rest of the conference + 12 opposite conference).

I dunno... lots of ways to go about it, but still... no way each team is playing each team in a season.


----------



## carnifex2005

I doubt they'll go more than 34 games in a season. They'll just expand the amount of playoff teams. With 32 that means a probable 16 teams making the playoffs.


----------



## Guest

Joey Mansueto, who owned 49% of the Chicago Fire which he purchased last year, just paid $204m for the 51% held by Andrew Hauptmann. That values the team at $400m. And, at least in my mind, backs up the idea that there are plans afoot for an SSS in Chicago. It'd be bizarre to break a contract with Bridgeview, move to rent at SF, and pay hundreds of millions to acquire the team fully if the end goal wasn't an SSS. And I doubt Mansueto would be doing it if he knew there was no chance of it. 

Also Fire fans are saying that Mansueto wants to keep the branding, and they seem happy about it. I think it’s a missed opportunity, but as long as they can get a new SSS somewhere close to downtown, it’s a good outcome.


----------



## GunnerJacket

OzStadiumGeek said:


> * A 32 match regular season
> * Each team plays each other team once - either at home or away (total = 31 matches)
> * Each team plays one other team for a second time - home or away, depending on where they played the first time. This second match can be used for "rivalry" matches for example
> * Total is 32 matches


The catch with this approach is that MLS has literally been expanding with an eye specifically geared toward the generation of regional rivalries and decreasing travel costs. They want teams to have multiple rivals to gun up fan excitement - The Cascacdia trio, the northeastern quintet, the Canadian trio, 3 teams in Texas soon, likely 4 in California, and so on. Having more than one rival gives you more than one chance to win a critical series for the fans, and creates that much more reason for an otherwise local story to carry broader appeal. Thus, for many teams the league and the fans want to have multiple games versus more than just one rival.


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1174005247880171520


----------



## Nacre

BoulderGrad said:


> MLS would do good to look to the NHL and its minor leagues for a model.


In some ways I think MLS needs major junior teams (like the Seattle Thunderbirds of the Western Hockey League) more than it needs an improved USL. Having 25-year-old players for depth in USL is fine and dandy, but to develop players that can compete with the best Euros and South Americans we need to develop 17-year-old players.

Also, boo Thunderbirds! Go Silvertips!


----------



## Nacre

5portsF4n said:


> Also Fire fans are saying that Mansueto wants to keep the branding, and they seem happy about it. I think it’s a missed opportunity, but as long as they can get a new SSS somewhere close to downtown, it’s a good outcome.


I don't think I will ever understand why we name teams after disasters. The Earthquakes and Miami Hurricanes are two other examples of teams paying homage to something prone to killing their fans, which seems impolitic to me. Next someone will name a team after cancer or car crashes.

But if the fans in Chicago want to keep a team name associated with futility and the near destruction of their city, so be it.


----------



## krnboy1009

BoulderGrad said:


> At the moment, not a realistic one... But Austin happened... so... who knows?
> 
> But really, its a pretty small market (would be the smallest in MLS after Austin), and MLS is having a hell of a time cracking the TV numbers. You don't improve that by sticking to small media markets.


And I think Cincinnati is too close.


----------



## Guest

Conference Semifinals are done. 

All images sourced from mlssoccer.com.

LAFC 5:3 LA Galaxy (Att: No official data yet but sold out, so ~22,000)




























Seattle Sounders 2:0 Real Salt Lake (Att: 37,722 at CenturyLink Field)




























Atlanta United 2:0 Philadelphia Union (Att: 41,507 at MBS)



















NYCFC 1:2 Toronto FC (Att: 19,829 at Citi Field)


----------



## The Game Is Up

Stadium site floated for proposed pro soccer team in Lexington

https://www.kentucky.com/sports/other-sports/article236610928.html


----------



## WesTexas

It bothers me that a bunch of these new teams just show up and MLS does everything possible to make sure they have success while the original teams struggle and get ignored by MLS. Also, STOP ADDING TEAMS! It is getting watered down with a bunch of bad players and old Euros.


----------



## slipperydog

*Inter Miami CF*



> “The way it was built out, we’re thinking of the athlete first from the minute they walk in,” said Jacklyne Ramos, the team’s vice president of communications as she stood inside what will be the building containing the locker room and other key spaces for the team. “The main stadium, that’s for the games. Where we are now, this is where they’ll live.”
> 
> The Associated Press got a tour on Monday of what will be Inter Miami’s inaugural home. The shell of the team’s headquarters — locker rooms, equipment room, dining area, coach’s office, what will become the sports performance lab, the academy workout facilities and more — is coming together. Every detail has been thought of; the walk from the players’ parking lot to the building will be short, the training room will be small (“I don’t want them comfortable in there,” McDonough said), and an area will be built just off the outside wall of the locker room to air out cleats after training sessions.
> 
> The centerpiece of everything is the 18,000-seat stadium, and parts of what will become the field are already largely marked off. Drainage was installed first, followed by four inches of rock for a base. From there, sprinklers go into place and four thin pieces of wood are set in place to mark where the goalposts will go. About a foot of soil will be added in the coming weeks, watered and compacted and graded. *Sod is scheduled to go in Nov. 14*; from there, it’ll be protected and fenced off and finally, what now seems like an oversized sand pit right now will look like a place to play soccer.
> 
> Behind that are more fields, including a turf one that can be used for high school football and other events. The other half-dozen grass fields will be for training and the team’s affiliate clubs.


https://apnews.com/a85802c12c804f9596ba36263e5817f0











https://twitter.com/Jorge__Mas


----------



## slipperydog

*South Georgia Tormenta FC*



> STATESBORO, Ga. (WTOC) -
> 
> Tormenta FC owners announced a new stadium that was also bringing major retail shops with it. The developer says the roads, drainage, and infrastructure may not look like progress, but they’re literally paving the way for a stadium, grocery store, and more to come to this site.
> 
> Contractors continue to build a road through what was once a cotton field. The president of Tormenta Soccer announced in March a development would go next to the stadium they would build along Veteran’s Memorial Parkway that would include Publix, a movie theater and more. He says they’ve so far been building the groundwork that will house it all. But that phase will be finished soon.
> 
> “Then it starts letting the bigger projects come out of the ground,” said Darin Van Tassell, Tormenta President. “The stadium, and Publix, and the other development.”
> 
> He says they’d hoped to move into the stadium this spring from playing at Georgia Southern. But they’ve revised the stadium plans so it can accommodate more events like concerts and more beyond just soccer season.


https://www.wtoc.com/2019/10/24/tormenta-fc-owners-give-update-new-stadium-retail-shops/


----------



## Guest

WesTexas said:


> It bothers me that a bunch of these new teams just show up and MLS does everything possible to make sure they have success while the original teams struggle and get ignored by MLS. Also, STOP ADDING TEAMS! It is getting watered down with a bunch of bad players and old Euros.


What has MLS done to make sure Atlanta and LAFC have success? Other than admitting them into the league, absolutely nothing. Dont blame AU and LAFC for spending money on players, while your original teams continue to get by on shoestring budgets.

This season, by salary cap spend, heres a rundown of all teams that joined prior to 2000:

LAG: 2nd inleague
Fire: 3rd
SKC: 5th
DC: 11th
Crew: 12th
NER: 18th
San Jose: 19th
Colorado: 20th
NYRB: 22nd
Dallas: 23rd

In fact Atlanta’s cap is 7th highest in the league. LAFCs is 4th, behind two originals.

How can MLS help Dallas? Only their ownership can help the team. And rhey actually made playoffs despite spending so little.

The problem for most original MLS clubs is that the new ownerships are just more ambitious than them.

With Mansueto at Chicago and the move to SF, I expect a big change in their operation going forward. SKC and Galaxy are well run and continue to compete at highest level.

DC and Columbus have bright futures with new stadiums.

San Jose has all the ingredients, just needs to spend more. Same for NYRB who, despite lack of spending, still perform well in recent years.

Houston has DT stadium, but doesnt spend on competitive roster. 

Colorado, NER, and Dallas have poor stadium locations, but they also spend little.

No one is ignoring these teams. They are neglecting themselves.

I still say lets get to 32 teams. 4 teams in 8 divisions for 34 games.


----------



## You are to blame

WesTexas said:


> It bothers me that a bunch of these new teams just show up and MLS does everything possible to make sure they have success while the original teams struggle and get ignored by MLS. Also, STOP ADDING TEAMS! It is getting watered down with a bunch of bad players and old Euros.


MLS hasn't done anything special for the new teams to be more successful. 
FC Cincinnati just finished their 1st season with one of the worst records ever in MLS


----------



## noize

Man... Those El Trafico games sure are insane. Apart from being great matches, there's a genuine heat rivalry between the clubs and fans.


----------



## SounderBruce

A panorama I took at the Seattle-RSL match:


----------



## nyrmetros

What has attendance been so far in playoffs?


----------



## GunnerJacket

nyrmetros said:


> What has attendance been so far in playoffs?


*2nd Round*
22,902 LAFC v LAG
41,507 ATL v PHI
37,722 SEA v RSL
19,829 CFGNY v TOR
30,490 Average

*1st Round*
18,530 PHI v RBNY
66,114 ATL v NER
25,331 TOR v DCU
37,722 SEA v FCD
17,452 RSL v POR
19,939 MNUFC v LAG
30,848 Average


----------



## slipperydog

Reports that Oakland is looking to move from NISA to USL, and that Fresno will be folding for the 2020 season. Nashville also departing USL next year for MLS.


----------



## Chevy114

Could philly ever add more seats? I know it's not a big deal, but 18k seems a little small


----------



## Lumbergo

Chevy114 said:


> Could philly ever add more seats? I know it's not a big deal, but 18k seems a little small


doubtful - they average just under capacity typically so no need. I could see, maybe in the future if they ever decide to relocate closer to downtown the need for a larger stadium - but for now it's adequate. 

question for those more familiar with the area and team - why didn't they originally try and build in one of the parking lots of the sports-plex located in south Philly? or did they?


----------



## GunnerJacket

Lumbergo said:


> question for those more familiar with the area and team - why didn't they originally try and build in one of the parking lots of the sports-plex located in south Philly? or did they?


IIRC the team was able to access incentives (read: $$) for the Chester site vs. building in the south Philly sports complex. There might have also been fear of traffic logistics issues if they built near the other venues and happened to be playing on the same day.

18k will be fine if they can actually spur additional development around the site.


----------



## slipperydog

> Fresno FC owner Ray Beshoff issues a statement saying the USL soccer club “will almost certainly be relocating.”
> 
> I just spoke to Beshoff for 30 minutes. He is hoping local investors will purchase the club for "a couple million bucks" and play at the USL League One level, which is one step below USL Championship.
> 
> Beshoff also owns the Fresno Fuego name and franchise, which he purchased for $530K. However, he told me he is willing to donate the name back to "Fresno soccer fans" should that club return.
> 
> The Foxes have an attractive offer to relocate to Monterey, though Beshoff says that has not been finalized. The club would play at a stadium on the CSU Monterey Bay campus free of charge so long as they pay to renovate it.


https://twitter.com/MarekTheBee












https://twitter.com/MikeWattsOnAir


----------



## Guest

Heavy favorites LAFC have lost 3-1 to Seattle in the Western Conference final. If Atlanta beat Toronto in the east final, they will host MLS Cup final. Also guarantees that one of Atlanta, Seattle or Toronto will add a second championship to their trophy cabinet.

All images sourced via MLSsoccer.com


----------



## GunnerJacket

5portsF4n said:


> Heavy favorites LAFC have lost 3-1 to Seattle in the Western Conference final. If Atlanta beat Toronto in the east final, they will host MLS Cup final. Also guarantees that one of Atlanta, Seattle or Toronto will add a second championship to their trophy cabinet.


Lot of folks dogging Seattle and Toronto coming into these semis but they've earned their way in and Seattle definitely looked the part of a champion last night. 3rd Cup final in 4 years? Yeah, I'd say they've got things clicking. Schmetzer is a better manager than he gets credit.


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^If Toronto wins, it would be the first final hosted at CenturyLink.


----------



## slipperydog

*Portland Timbers 2*



> Minor League Baseball’s Hillsboro Hops are taking over business operations for USL Championship’s Portland Timbers 2, part of a new arrangement that will see the club shift home matches to Hillsboro Stadium.
> 
> Under the terms of a new partnership between the Hops (Short Season A; Northwest League) and MLS’s Portland Timbers, Timbers 2 (T2) will see some changes in 2020. Along with the move to Hillsboro Stadium, T2 will have its business operations–including marketing, ticketing, and sponsorship sales–run by the Hops. T2’s soccer operations will continue to be led by the Portland Timbers, the club’s owner and MLS parent.
> 
> “We are excited to partner with such a well-respected organization in the Hillsboro Hops,” said Timbers president of business Mike Golub. “It’s a tremendous opportunity to grow T2’s fanbase and create a dynamic environment for soccer at Hillsboro Stadium.”


https://soccerstadiumdigest.com/2019/10/hillsboro-hops-take-over-timbers-2-business-operations/



*Monterey*



> The Fresno Football Club has stopped all operations and will move to Monterey, officials say.
> 
> Below is a statement released by Fresno FC:
> 
> In spite of a tremendous amount of effort from many different people, the Fresno Football Club has ceased operations. I wanted to personally thank you for your support of the Fresno Football Club. We built a special team and that wouldn't have been possible without the support from sponsors like you. I have truly enjoyed the relationships I have built with you all and hope to work with you in the future.
> 
> I also wanted to let you know that Ray has decided that the team will be moving to Monterey, CA. If you would like more information or feel this may be a market/opportunity you would like to be part of please give me a call. I'd be happy to set up a meeting for you to meet with Frank to discuss the future.


https://kmph.com/news/local/fresno-fc-relocating-to-monterey


----------



## eric the midget

Here's a good concept. Unique design for MLS and incorporates the music aspect.










Concept by u/ChristianRincon via reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/NashvilleSC/comments/asz2sn/nashville_sc_crest_concept/


----------



## The Game Is Up

> The Union and Subaru announced a major new sponsorship deal Tuesday that will see the team’s stadium in Chester renamed as Subaru Park.
> 
> It’s the first time that the Japanese car manufacturer, whose U.S. headquarters is in Camden, has done a deal like this with any major-league sports team worldwide.
> 
> The financial value of the deal isn’t known, but what is known is that it’s the first fully new sponsor for the stadium since the Union launched a decade ago. Previous sponsor Talen Energy was a spinoff of the stadium’s original sponsor, Allentown-based utility company PPL. The stadium’s name changed from PPL Park to Talen Energy Stadium after the 2015 season.
> 
> In addition to whatever money Subaru is paying, the company is partnering with the Union on four community service initiatives: supporting pet adoption and animal welfare, childhood cancer patients, youth soccer in under-served communities, and environmental awareness. The last of those will include a recycling program and a community garden on the stadium grounds that will supply fresh produce to nearby communities.
> 
> “This is about two organizations coming together and making a positive impact on the Philadelphia region,” said Union chief business officer Tim McDermott, who began talks with Subaru a year ago.


Read the rest - https://www.inquirer.com/soccer/phi...tadium-subaru-park-talen-energy-20200218.html


----------



## slipperydog

*Inter Miami CF*



























https://twitter.com/InterMiamiCF


----------



## GunnerJacket

As far as temporary set-ups go they sure seemed to get this right. For the sake of the league I hope it works out for them. (Even if I hope they always finish below Atlanta!)


----------



## slipperydog

*New Mexico United*



> New Mexico United announced on Friday that the team has secured $4.1 million in capital outlay funds from the 2020 legislative session for the development of the Sport and Cultural Center which would serve as the team’s home.
> 
> The team will use the secured funds to complete site feasibility analysis, economic impact surveys, and to plan and design land for the center’s site. The team expects to plan to determine a possible venue location by summer.


https://www.krqe.com/news/albuquerq...for-development-of-sport-and-cultural-center/


----------



## Sportsfan

slipperydog said:


> *Inter Miami CF*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/InterMiamiCF


Very impressive facility. I'm one of those cynical people who didn't think they had a hope in hell of having this ready in time for the start of the 2020 MLS season. I mean, they only broke ground on the 8th of May 2019!!!


----------



## derzberb

Looking forward to see highlights of the first 2020 games, especially Nashville vs Atlanta.


----------



## GunnerJacket

derzberb said:


> Looking forward to see highlights of the first 2020 games, especially Nashville vs Atlanta.


That game might be close to sold out, which if true could possibly be the biggest debut ever for an MLS franchise. I know those of us traveling from Atlanta are in the upper decks (300 level) and that at least some seats were sold across the remainder of that particular side where we're sitting. Not sure if the opposite side 300 level is open. Good news it should be dry that weekend (southeast getting a lot of rain lately) but it will still be cold. (40's at kickoff)

Hopefully this one will go about as well as Atlanta's last cold road match to help another MLS team make their home debut...


slipperydog said:


> Inaugural MLS match was...cold


----------



## aquamaroon

courtesy of our local SSC drone videographer John Kay, shots of the newly installed safe standing section at Dignity Health Sports Park :cheers::


----------



## krnboy1009

aquamaroon said:


> courtesy of our local SSC drone videographer John Kay, shots of the newly installed safe standing section at Dignity Health Sports Park
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :


Funny thing, the Wildcats don’t use either sections next to the new safe standing section but they do use the safe standing section.


----------



## GunnerJacket

krnboy1009 said:


> Funny thing, the Wildcats don’t use either sections next to the new safe standing section but they do use the safe standing section.


Who are the Wildcats?


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> Who are the Wildcats?


I am guessing XFL.


----------



## Chevy114

Yes, XFL team


----------



## MarioBasler

as a hard fan of the game, I always love to watch live matches from the gallery. always try to be in the ground while my favorite teams play. anyway, I love The Rose Bowl stadium, really a big giant one. modern stadiums have more facilities and improved technology, still love the Rose Bowl.


----------



## slipperydog

*ODOT to sell land near Progressive Field, including site considered for soccer stadium*



> CLEVELAND, Ohio — The Ohio Department of Transportation plans to sell nearly 29 acres at the southern end of downtown Cleveland, just a short walk from Progressive Field, in an area viewed for decades as a potential site for another major athletic facility.
> 
> Proposals from auctioneers are due April 23. The auction could occur in November.
> 
> “We have legal authority to look at a range of options,” said Brent Kovacs, a spokesman for ODOT in Northeast Ohio. “We are going to explore to see which is best for the taxpayer.”
> 
> Kovacs wouldn’t comment on potential pricing.
> 
> But Tom Chema, who represents a group that’s been pursuing part of the site for close to two years, said the state has “a view of the value that I don’t think was particularly realistic.”
> 
> A local attorney and consultant with a deep background in ballpark and arena deals, Chema has looked at the land as a *potential location for a 10,000-seat soccer stadium that could house a United Soccer League team.*
> 
> But Chema said a standalone soccer stadium would require only 10 acres in an urban area, with proximity to Progressive Field, Rocket Mortgage FieldHouse and plenty of lots and garages where fans could park. A suburban or rural project, without nearby attractions and amenities, would require more property and would, in his view, be much less appealing.
> 
> “That’s, of course, not the only site you could put a stadium on,” he said of the ODOT land, “although to bunch facilities together makes an awful lot of sense.”


FULL STORY: https://www.cleveland.com/business/...uding-site-considered-for-soccer-stadium.html


----------



## slipperydog

*Charleston Battery*

New facility for the 2020 season






















https://twitter.com/Chas_Battery


----------



## GunnerJacket

Not quite the same but hopefully it will serve them well. Battery are an established enough institution in the US soccer landscape that I hope they remain for generations.


----------



## slipperydog

*Louisville City FC*











https://twitter.com/KDFMarathon


----------



## slipperydog

*Louisville City FC*












































https://twitter.com/louisvillemayor


----------



## ielag

Only complaint with a USL stadium that great is the lack of purple seats.


----------



## slipperydog

NISA Approves the Chicago NISA Application


NISA APPROVES THE CHICAGO NISA APPLICATION Peter Wilt-Led Group Officially Back; Targeting Play in Fall 2021 CHICAGO (November 5, 2020) – The National Independent Soccer Association (NISA)...




www.nisaofficial.com












Home | Chicago House Athletic Club


|




chicagonisa.com


----------



## GunnerJacket

Good luck to them. Here's to hoping Cosmos 3.1 don't destroy this league, too.


----------



## Bj16🇳🇬

GunnerJacket said:


> Good luck to them. Here's to hoping Cosmos 3.1 don't destroy this league, too.


Was it really COSMOS that destroyed NASL? The owner even offered to save the league with his money but that wasn't just possible


----------



## GunnerJacket

Bj16🇳🇬 said:


> Was it really COSMOS that destroyed NASL? The owner even offered to save the league with his money but that wasn't just possible


Long story short - Comisso and the owner of Miami FC, Ricardo Silva, essentially forced the other owners in the NASL to support all the needless legal challenges against US Soccer, costing the league both money, sponsorship appeal, and fan credibility. If they'd put half as much effort into building their league as they did their ambitious "get rich quick" lawsuits the league might have prospered, but instead the other owners got wise and began to get out. 

So it wasn't really the Cosmos fault, per se, but rather their owner who had more ambition than brains when it comes to sports management. Looks like Fiorentina isn't doing so hot under his new ownership, either.


----------



## JohnDee

I hope DC builds a new football stadium with soccer capability. WC Final would be nice to have in the nations capital.


----------



## BoulderGrad

JohnDee said:


> I hope DC builds a new football stadium with soccer capability. WC Final would be nice to have in the nations capital.


Firstly: Fed Ex Field already has soccer capability. 

Second: Aside from government functions, DC just doesn't hold the same level of importance as most other capitals in the world. New York or LA, or even Chicago are much more prominent on the national sports scene. All 3 already have much flashier soccer venues.


----------



## Nacre

Associating with the national government of the USA is less attractive to FIFA than making friends with the entrepreneurs and corporations of New York, Chicago, San Francisco, et al.

Brazil is similar in having separate political (Brasilia), cultural (Rio) and commercial (Sao Paolo) hub cities, and there was never any question of Brasilia hosting the cup final instead of Brazil's cultural capital Rio.


----------



## slipperydog

In most countries, the national capital is the biggest and most important city economically. That's not the case in the United States.


----------



## JohnDee

Nah, DC is going to get it becaue the new FIFA is not the old FIFA anymore.. not the corrupt FIFA of big money.

Once a stadium is built (and Dan Snyder is going to build one, just a matter of when) they'll pick DC this time, as a grand symbolic gesture. DC is the capital of the free world, a grand symbol and everybody knows DC around the world. It's not some nondescript town like Brasilia or Canberra. Nobody knows those places.

It's a change, a city that isn't associated with big money interests but with beneficial policy actions that could save the world (i.e, climate change)! That mean NY is at a deficit right away, it's a big money town and FIFA wants nothing to do with that given their history/reputation..


----------



## slipperydog

JohnDee said:


> If a new stadium is built, DC has a very good chance. Keep up the obvious DC hate, it is quite hilarious. The fact remains, LA is probably not getting it again, so if NY has some issue, DC is right in line to get the final. Sorry anti-government/drain swamp folks.


But it's unlikely a new stadium will be built. So it's a moot point. We can cross that bridge if and when we get to that point.

In any case, this isn't the appropriate thread for a discussion about World Cup stadiums.


----------



## RobH

JohnDee said:


> Nah, DC is going to get it becaue the new FIFA is not the old FIFA anymore.. not the corrupt FIFA of big money.
> 
> Once a stadium is built (and Dan Snyder is going to build one, just a matter of when) they'll pick DC this time, as a grand symbolic gesture. DC is the capital of the free world, a grand symbol and everybody knows DC around the world. It's not some nondescript town like Brasilia or Canberra. Nobody knows those places.
> 
> It's a change, a city that isn't associated with big money interests but with beneficial policy actions that could save the world (i.e, climate change)! That mean NY is at a deficit right away, it's a big money town and FIFA wants nothing to do with that given their history/reputation..


I think you're overthinking this. FIFA will choose the stadium that gives its final the best stage (in terms of facilities), the one that gives it the best global exposure, and the one that makes it a tonne of money. FIFA wants to get away from its "old" corrupt image, but that doesn't mean eschewing big money.

Don't forget, one of the reasons 2026 was such a dead cert for the American bid* was because FIFA was close to bankrupt in the years prior to its awarding, _because of their own corruption_. FIFA needs some successful and very profitable events in the coming years. They're not going to compromise on this for symbolism.

* i.e. the reason Morocco 2026 had an _extremely slim_ rather than small chance of winning


----------



## The Game Is Up

MLS says it will continue to grow, with a big emphasis on building soccer-only stadiums - The Boston Globe


By 2023 the league hopes to have 27 of 30 teams playing in their own stadiums, and says getting the Revolution into their own venue is 'a priority.'




www.bostonglobe.com














Pro Soccer Eyes Return with New Fresno Stadium at Selland Arena Site


Share with friends[Update 12/10/2020: the Fresno City Council approved declaring Selland Arena, Valdez Hall and the surrounding parking lot as surplus property by a 7-0 vote on the consent calendar. There was no discussion. Original story:] Professional soccer will return to the Central Valley...




gvwire.com


----------



## BoulderGrad

Heh, "by 2023" and "27 of 30 teams" are both pretty rich. Still..., pretty exciting next few years in the topflight stadium level:

Opening 2021:
Cincinnati West End Stadium
Austin FC Stadium
Columbus Crew new stadium

Opening 2022:
Nashville SC Stadium
(Theoretically) Miami FC's Stadium (but still hasn't started Construction 

Opening 2023:
Saint Louis FC Stadium
Railyards Stadium (Sacramento FC)

Assuming they finally get started in 2021 (snow ball's chance...) opening 2024:
NYCFC
New England Revolution

I'd assume teams 31 and 32 would be pretty likely to have SSS's wherever they end up (unless Detroit gets its traction back, and they play in a renovated Ford Field). 

Teams that definitely won't be going for SSS's by 2023: Seattle, Vancouver, Charlotte, Chicago, Atlanta. Only ones from that list who might even be considering one in the next decade are Chicago and Charlotte, and even Charlotte I'd say would go the Atlanta route and just join in with the Panthers on a new stadium (if that even happens).

Teams I'd like to see update/replace their current SSS's (in order of priority): Colorado (lowest hanging fruit. Build it in the parking lot of Pepsi Ce... err... Ball Arena and turn DSG into a training ground), FC Dallas (Need it badly, but probably stuck for a while since they built the USSHOF there), LA Galaxy (Probably okay for a while, but we'll see how the in-city competition with LAFC plays out), Philly (Still pretty new, nice, and adequate, but pretty eh location).


----------



## fkus

Anyone knows when will be defined which cities will be hosting country teams for the 2026 World Cup?


----------



## slipperydog

*Legacy Sports Park (Mesa, AZ)*

(incudes 8,000 seat capacity stadium, opening 2022)
















Coming Soon: Legacy Sports Park


For more than 50 years, PHOENIX magazine's experienced writers, editors, and designers have captured all sides of the Valley with award-winning and insightful writing, and groundbreaking reporting and design.




www.phoenixmag.com












Legacy Sports USA - Home - Legacy Sports USA


Legacy Sports Park is a 320-acre private family sports and entertainment complex located in Mesa, AZ.




www.legacysportsusa.com


----------



## GunnerJacket

BoulderGrad said:


> ... and even Charlotte I'd say would go the Atlanta route and just join in with the Panthers on a new stadium (if that even happens).


My cousin lives in Raleigh, NC and they make it sound like it's inevitable the State, the City of Charlotte, and the Panthers/CFC reach an agreement on a new stadium. All the parties want to recreate the situation seen in Atlanta with a domed/retractable roof stadium that will allow the venue to host more events in an evolving convention district. The most likely site is just nearby and various reports suggest discussions are underway. 

I agree FCD won't move but hopefully will see some venue improvements, so once Columbus moves that will leave Colorado as the team having the weakest venue. Whether or not Silent Stan will be moved to do anything about that will depend on the new MLS TV contract terms in 2022.



fkus said:


> Anyone knows when will be defined which cities will be hosting country teams for the 2026 World Cup?


Likely shortly before Qatar '22. FIFA would like to have that info available to promote the event when their next showcase takes place.


----------



## master_klon

BoulderGrad said:


> Assuming they finally get started in 2021 (snow ball's chance...) opening 2024:
> NYCFC
> New England Revolution


I'm guessing we'd be looking at around 2026 for these two, capitilising on the increased interest due to the World Cup. If it wasn't for the World Cup I'd hate to know how long they would drag it out until.


----------



## slipperydog

*Phoenix Rising FC*

relocating stadium and building new training facility 17 miles south of Tempe










__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1337102282308071424


----------



## aquamaroon

That almost looks like it's being future proofed to be the training facility of a Phoenix Rising MLS team with a bigger stadium in a different location


----------



## GunnerJacket

While I think that futureprrofing idea has merit I would be more on board if the idea was to make a stadium that could expand to MLS capacity rather than "in a different location." That would indicate a business model oriented around efficiency and true long-term thinking.


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> While I think that futureprrofing idea has merit I would be more on board if the idea was to make a stadium that could expand to MLS capacity rather than "in a different location." That would indicate a business model oriented around efficiency and true long-term thinking.


Could be; but also could be that 2 stadiums in different locations is more efficient.


----------



## ielag

aquamaroon said:


> That almost looks like it's being future proofed to be the training facility of a Phoenix Rising MLS team with a bigger stadium in a different location


Yeah this definitely isn't an ideal location for a long term stadium (like the equivalent to the Coyotes playing in Glendale). Especially since the previous stadium was in a great location.

Which makes me wonder is if the Diamondbacks and the Pima-Maricopa Tribe have some deal for a new Dbacks stadium on that land? Thus why the Rising are moving.


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1338626989431861254


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1338626989431861254


A "female-focused" stadium? If they can make the numbers work then more power to them, I guess, but I'd shudder to think that it's more cost efficient to build a wholly new venue as opposed to modifying the dressing room lavatories within an existing stadium for which you're trying to increase the use.


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1339284260432334853


----------



## nyrmetros

Boston....... Ha.......


----------



## Mansa Musa

Looks like soccer will be the reason 90% of new stadiums being built in america this decade. Good to hear.


----------



## RMB2007

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1345144485567737856


----------



## GunnerJacket

Wow. Without even checking I simply assumed the Independence would have halted their project knowing Charlotte was getting an MLS side. Hmmm.


----------



## RMB2007

Indy Eleven plans to reveal site for new soccer stadium by end of March

Remember that new stadium Indy Eleven was working on?

Eleven fans didn't forget, and on Friday they were given a long-awaited update.

The team announced "after delays caused by the pandemic we are pushing ahead with plans for Eleven Park" and plan to reveal the location of its new stadium by the end of March.









Indy Eleven plans to reveal site for new soccer stadium by end of March


Indy Eleven are 'pushing ahead with plans for Eleven Park' and plan to reveal the location of its new stadium by the end of March.



eu.indystar.com


----------



## Yuvallu

That's very fast, even if compared to other MLS stadiums. And in my country it's 5 years for a fu*king 5000 seats stadium which is not close to be ready


----------



## slipperydog

GunnerJacket said:


> Wow. Without even checking I simply assumed the Independence would have halted their project knowing Charlotte was getting an MLS side. Hmmm.


It'll be interesting to see if the USL teams in Charlotte and Austin remain once the MLS sides are established.


----------



## Chevy114

I feel like some cities have both an MLS and USL team like Orlando


----------



## tinyslam

I guess it depends on if they are owned by the MLS club and used as a feeder/academy team like Atlanta, Orlando, and others. I'm not sure a lower tier side can compete economically with a MLS team in the same market. They could go for the minor league vibe and try to offer inexpensive family oriented soccer, but MLS isn't really that expensive compared to other major league sports.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Metro areas currently with teams in both MLS and USL (Championship or L1 level):
Atlanta
Boston
DC (Loudon United)
Dallas (North Texas)
New York
Miami
Kansas City
LA
Salt Lake City
Toronto

Except for Miami FC all of those minor league teams are MLS2 teams or a partner club of the local MLS affiliate. It's tough to gauge whether or not Miami FC will persist since Inter Miami also has a minor league affiliate in L1 just up the road in Fort Lauderdale, so no one truly expects Miami FC to persist.

Bottom line, the precedent suggests Austin Bold and Charlotte Independence have limited lifespans ahead.


----------



## krnboy1009

slipperydog said:


> It'll be interesting to see if the USL teams in Charlotte and Austin remain once the MLS sides are established.


It absolutely sucks seeing a USL team with kick ass name being replaced with MLS side with incredibly generic name RE: Charlotte.


----------



## nyrmetros

Mixed use?


----------



## slipperydog

*Northern Colorado FC*









USL League One adds Northern Colorado FC for 2022 - Soccer Stadium Digest


A new Windsor (CO) sports complex will include Northern Colorado FC in 2022, as the Katofsky family adds a USL League One team.




soccerstadiumdigest.com


----------



## GunnerJacket

I'm obviously all for more soccer but I hope they aren't thinking this will be a cheap and simple way of just having more events at a baseball stadium. USL League 1 is currently an expensive haul for western teams since 9 of the current 12 teams are in the eastern time zone. Good luck to them, though.


----------



## nyrmetros

Any word on New York City?


----------



## RMB2007

^^^

Last update can be found in the main NYC FC thread:









QUEENS - NYC FC Willets Point Stadium (25,000)


New York City Football Club I haven't seen this noted elsewhere, but on 10 December, the New York Post reported that a deal for a $400 million stadium in the South Bronx is close to being signed between the MLS expansion soccer club and the present owners of the location. Neither the community...




www.skyscrapercity.com


----------



## RMB2007

New Poll Shows New Mexico United Stadium & Cultural Center Proposal Draws Widespread Support

A new poll released on Monday indicates Albuquerque residents overwhelmingly support the construction of a multi-purpose stadium and cultural center to host New Mexico United matches and other events throughout the year. The poll, conducted by Research and Polling, Inc., indicates that Albuquerque residents would like to see this stadium built by a margin of nearly 3-to-1.









New Poll Shows New Mexico United Stadium & Cultural Center Proposal Draws Widespread Support


Albuquerque residents favor development 3-to-1 across gender, ethnicity, income level, other factors




www.uslsoccer.com


----------



## slipperydog

RMB2007 said:


> New Poll Shows New Mexico United Stadium & Cultural Center Proposal Draws Widespread Support
> 
> A new poll released on Monday indicates Albuquerque residents overwhelmingly support the construction of a multi-purpose stadium and cultural center to host New Mexico United matches and other events throughout the year. The poll, conducted by Research and Polling, Inc., indicates that Albuquerque residents would like to see this stadium built by a margin of nearly 3-to-1.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Poll Shows New Mexico United Stadium & Cultural Center Proposal Draws Widespread Support
> 
> 
> Albuquerque residents favor development 3-to-1 across gender, ethnicity, income level, other factors
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.uslsoccer.com


"& Cultural Center"

genius marketing...


----------



## pesto

slipperydog said:


> "& Cultural Center"
> 
> genius marketing...


One of those embarrassing dishonest polls that too many cities use (even for the Olympics). To get a fair poll you ask "do you support spending x dollars of public money for a stadium that will be rented to NM Soccer at y rent per month for z years?" And you make sure that each of those numbers is audited.

If the project really makes economic sense, then let private parties invest and make a profit renting it to the team and for other uses. That way the fans can vote with their own dollars on whether they need a team and stadium, instead of taking money from the poor, the elderly, etc., to subsidize the owners and fans.


----------



## nyrmetros

So how many MLS stadiums are under construction now?


----------



## BoulderGrad

nyrmetros said:


> So how many MLS stadiums are under construction now?


Currently Under Construction:
Cincy West End Stadium (Close to finished)
Columbus' new stadium (About 3/4's done)
Austin FC's Q2 Stadium (Close to finished)
Nashville FC's Fairground Stadium (Just starting)
Saint Louis FC's new stadium (Just Starting)

And soon to be starting:
Sacramento's Railyards Stadium

And somewhere on the horizon:
Miami's Vaporware stadium.
NYCFC's Bronx stadium... Theoretically?
And "soon to have an announcement since 2005": New England Rev's stadium.


----------



## GunnerJacket

BoulderGrad said:


> And somewhere on the horizon:
> 
> NYCFC's Bronx stadium... Theoretically?
> And "soon to have an announcement since 2005": New England Rev's stadium.


Hope springs eternal!


----------



## Lumbergo

Miami will happen before NYC. NYC will happen before New England. MLS will expand again before New England happens.


----------



## pesto

Lumbergo said:


> Miami will happen before NYC. NYC will happen before New England. MLS will expand again before New England happens.


Are any of these prior to the heat-death of the universe?


----------



## slipperydog

*Monterey Bay FC*









Pro soccer: USL to put pro franchise in Monterey


MARINA — The United Soccer League, considered the second-highest professional league behind Major League Soccer in the United States, is putting an expansion team on the Monterey Peninsula. A…




www.montereyherald.com


----------



## slipperydog

*Des Moines USL team*









Plans revealed for Iowa’s first pro soccer stadium


Pro Iowa, the campaign working to bring a USL Championship soccer club to the US state, has detailed plans for...




www.thestadiumbusiness.com













Pro Iowa, Krause+ and the City of Des Moines to Reimagine the Dico Superfund Site - USL Pro Iowa







www.uslproiowa.com


----------



## RMB2007

The Rhode Island Commerce Corporation Board of Directors on Friday approved a financing plan for the Pawtucket Tidewater Landing development project, the centerpiece of which is set to be a new soccer-specific stadium which will become the future home of a USL Championship club. 

The public investment will be centered on public infrastructure improvements and not on the stadium itself, which will be privately financed. The venue will be a minimum 7,500-seat capacity but may be designed to accommodate up to 11,000 seats. The investment is expected to more than pay for itself and is slated to be the largest economic development project in Pawtucket’s history, with the overall $284M project being developed by Fortuitous Partners set to take place across 25 acres on six parcels on both sides of the Seekonk River. The project was approved by the Commerce Corporation Investment Committee on Thursday. 









Financing Plan Approved for Rhode Island Stadium Project, New Renderings Unveiled


$284-million stadium-anchored Tidewater Landing project receives financing approval, debuts new flythrough video




www.uslsoccer.com


----------



## slipperydog

*Colorado Springs Switchbacks FC*



























https://twitter.com/SwitchbacksFC



__
http://instagr.am/p/CKeUPLPJBOf/


----------



## slipperydog

*Fort Wayne FC*

















Fort Wayne moves forward on new soccer-centric development - Soccer Stadium Digest


A $150-million development at the North River area, in initial planning stages, could include a new Fort Wayne stadium for a USL League One team.




soccerstadiumdigest.com


----------



## GunnerJacket

Good for them, though I'm kind of surprised they're aiming for L1, seeing as the L2 level has far more teams and a lot of teams within driving distance. At L1 their closest opponent would be in Madison, WI. Maybe by the time the debut at that level there will be a few other shifts.


----------



## JohnDee

Good to see the country embrace more "soccer". Those stadiums are small, but they are a beginning. Have to start somewhere I suppose.

Born and having spent my childhood in Europe, I always wanted it to take off in the US. I followed Hockey for most of the time during my first years here, but that got old soon enough. Hockey is now dull as rocks for me, it's just up and down. And fighting is stupid. I liked it once, but then I realized it's all staged to attract yobs. Soccer is honestly the best sport to watch in the US, even if that sport is taking place in London. 

MLS though can take a hike, it's awful. Get rid of that Garber guy, he's a schmuck who doesn't understand how soccer works. It's not an American sport. Free MLS.


----------



## GunnerJacket

JohnDee said:


> Good to see the country embrace more "soccer". Those stadiums are small, but they are a beginning. Have to start somewhere I suppose.
> 
> ...
> 
> MLS though can take a hike, it's awful. Get rid of that Garber guy, he's a schmuck who doesn't understand how soccer works. It's not an American sport. Free MLS.


If you're sincere about the first sentence then you'll need to second guess the second one. There's no way MLS survives, let alone prospers, without applying oversight and admin practices that kept the operation functional as a business, and Garber has led the league to heights that those of us who remember the original NASL could barely conceive. The reality is that this is the US and not Europe or Latin America. The pro sports scene is beyond crowded and the resources available for pro soccer are marginal by comparison. Shortly after he was appointed in '99 the league contracted down to 10 teams and was barely averaging 13,000 fans per match, with minimal TV exposure and money. Today the league is light years removed from that nadir. Soccer may not be an American sport, but if it's to prosper here it must be as an American league.

It's taken a dedicated and practical strategy to build the league into one that is a stable and growing presence, and for all his faults Garber has been critical to that evolution.


----------



## slipperydog

Yep, Eurosnobbery absolutely still exists in this country, but like a lot of things, it's dying off. There are differences of course, but plenty of American soccer fans love and follow both.

We can see that as more and more MLS academies are sending kids to Europe, they are in turn able to sustain their businesses and bring in outside talent, and thus raise the overall standard of play.


----------



## slipperydog

*Phoenix Rising FC*


----------



## slipperydog

*South Georgia Tormenta FC*









‘Live, Work, Play’: Tormenta FC’s Stadium Coming to Life


The club recently announced Optim Health System as the naming rights partner for the field, which will serve as new economic hub in South Georgia




www.uslleagueone.com


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1362528440088485888


----------



## slipperydog

*Monterey Bay FC*
















Monterey Bay Aims to Awake Echoes of Freeman Field's Past


Multi-million-dollar renovation of venue that once welcomed NFL teams is centerpiece for new club




www.uslchampionship.com


----------



## GunnerJacket

RIP Black Baud stadium. That was indeed a nice little venue that served its purpose well and planted the seed for every US pro soccer stadium to come.


----------



## slipperydog

*USL Des Moines*

























__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1363973067865792516


----------



## nyrmetros

Wow Black Baud Stadium..... Pioneer....


----------



## slipperydog

*Phoenix Rising FC*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1364983506720280581


----------



## slipperydog

*USL Spokane*
















USL, Downtown Spokane Partnership Announce New Proposal for Downtown Stadium


Partnership on 5,000-seat stadium would generate $11.4 million in annual economic impact




www.uslsoccer.com





*Central Valley Fuego FC*








Fuego FC Rallies Community for Stadium Development Support


Club asks community to contact local leaders to show support for stadium in downtown Fresno




www.fuegofc.com


----------



## RMB2007

*Oklahoma City Energy Football Club*



















As part of the on-going process of refining and prioritizing the many projects slated for MAPS 4, Bob Funk Jr. of the OKC Energy soccer club delivered a presentation this week to the MAPS Board.

Funk presented two desired stadium options, each expandable if Oklahoma City was in a position to pursue a top-tier Major League Soccer franchise in the future.

Funk also mentioned that land costs have yet to be determined while they have looked at 3 possible locations:


Farmers Market. Land west of Classen and just north of I-40.
Wheeler Park. Currently owned by the city.
Producers Coop. Just south of Bricktown.

The desire is to have the stadium near the entertainment and attractions of downtown.

No final decisions have been made on any of the MAPS 4 projects as advocates continue to make presentations to the board.






OKCTalk - MAPS4 Stadium considering 3 sites


As part of the on-going process of refining and prioritizing the many projects slated for MAPS4, Bob Funk Jr. of the OKC Energy soccer club delivered a presentation this week to the MAPS4 Board. http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/stadium030221a.jpg Funk presented two desired stadum options...



www.okctalk.com


----------



## GunnerJacket

Of those options I'd say Producers Coop is the best location. The other sites appear less conducive from an auto-access standpoint and I'd be loath to eat into an existing park space. Plus the Coop appears close enough to the social scene of Bricktown that you could easily see fans at local eateries before and after matches, but the stadium would also provide a good use for something right against a freeway. Basically, it's echoing the intent behind the other sports venues in the vicinity.


----------



## slipperydog

*Oklahoma City Energy FC*


----------



## RMB2007

Charlotte Independence


















Independence expect revenue gains with move to Memorial Stadium - Charlotte Business Journal


The Charlotte Independence will soon play just blocks away from the city's expansion Major League Soccer club. Independence executives think there is room for both teams.




www.bizjournals.com


----------



## slipperydog

*Colorado Springs Switchbacks FC*










__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1368977315166846976


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1370072034395496454


----------



## The Game Is Up

Pro soccer team, new stadium could be part of Grand Rapids’ future


A private development group, whose members include Carol Van Andel and Dick DeVos, wants to bring a United Soccer League Championship-level team to the city.




www.mlive.com


----------



## slipperydog

New stadium set for Saskatoon as Canadian Premier League franchise landed


A new 4,000-seat stadium is being lined up for Saskatoon after the city was awarded rights for a Canadian Premier...




www.thestadiumbusiness.com


----------



## nyrmetros

The Game Is Up said:


> Pro soccer team, new stadium could be part of Grand Rapids’ future
> 
> 
> A private development group, whose members include Carol Van Andel and Dick DeVos, wants to bring a United Soccer League Championship-level team to the city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mlive.com


Maybe 1 day if MLS buys the USL......


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1371775510779469827


----------



## slipperydog

Add Eugene to existing proposals in Tacoma and Spokane...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1371991177466052608








Lane United FC hopes for new stadium as part of Glenwood development proposal


If approved, Lane United FC would become a fully professional soccer club with a stadium located in a new mixed use development in the Glenwood area.




www.kezi.com


----------



## slipperydog

Report: Sacramento NWSL expansion team wants to move to San Diego


Yikes.




www.indomitablecitysoccer.com


----------



## slipperydog

*Phoenix Rising FC*


----------



## slipperydog

*San Francisco Glens*









San Francisco Glens SC Announces Plans for Soccer-Specific Facility at Treasure Island


New Renderings Unveiled for Transformational Waterfront Project




www.uslleaguetwo.com


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1374435837677498370


----------



## slipperydog

*USL Rhode Island*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1374437908711501824


----------



## The Game Is Up

Rumors of FIFA planning to host the expanded version of the Club World Cup here in the States. If that pans out then that would be a great opportunity to showcase some of the more recent MLS venues. Obviously, some of the NFL venues would be used for the teams with plenty of followers. I tend to think that venues like the Red Bull Arena, LAFC, the new Cincinnati stadium, the new one in St. Louis, maybe a late game in Las Vegas at the Raiders stadium.

Lots of possibilities.


----------



## Ramanaramana

The Game Is Up said:


> Rumors of FIFA planning to host the expanded version of the Club World Cup here in the States. If that pans out then that would be a great opportunity to showcase some of the more recent MLS venues. Obviously, some of the NFL venues would be used for the teams with plenty of followers. I tend to think that venues like the Red Bull Arena, LAFC, the new Cincinnati stadium, the new one in St. Louis, maybe a late game in Las Vegas at the Raiders stadium.
> 
> Lots of possibilities.


2021 was planned for China if I recall correctly. I'm not surprised the US is being mentioned as a host, but can't really think of any reason why it wouldn't take place in China either. Both are perfect hosts though, so can't complain. Id go a step further and say that the cwc shouldn't be held outside the US, China, Arabia, and Australia - bit of homerism on the last one but it'd be a financial hit.

I'm with you, you'd have to use MLS venues I reckon. As big as the likes of Corinthians and Guangzhou are in their countries, only the European clubs would need anything more than 30,000.

If FIFA arrange the cwc like the world cup, it will mean 8 groups of 3. If 12 European teams are involved, youd be looking at 4 matches in which a European team won't feature. At the very least, those should be in RBA, Cincinnati, or whichever else. You could include more matches for some European teams as the likes of Dortmund or Atletico aren't big draws. Every match held in an NFL stadium should involve one of Real, Barcelona, Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal. If they're not playing, put it in an MLS stadium. And then the 16 teams in the knockouts can all be NFL stadiums.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm gonna write up an experimental cwc in America.

12 teams uefa, 4 concacaf, 4 conmebol, 2 afc, 2 caf.

Let's say Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham, Barcelona, Real, PSG, Juventus, Inter, Bayern. Then go with LAFC, Atlanta, Club America and Tigres. Then Flamengo, Corinthians, Boca, River. Then Guangzhou, Al Hilal from Asia. Then Al Ahly and Wydad from Africa.

G1: Man Utd, LAFC, Flamengo (NFL venues for United matches, LAFC at their stadium against Flamengo)
G2: Man City, Atlanta, Corinthians (NFL venues for City matches, and Atlanta game at their stadium against Corinthians)
G3: Liverpool, Juventus, Boca (NFL stadiums for Liverpool matches, Juventus against Boca in a large MLS stadium)
G4: Chelsea, Tigres, River (NFL stadiums for all matches)
G5: Arsenal, Barcelona, Al Ahly (NFL stadiums for all matches)
G6: Tottenham, Al Hilal, Wydad (I'd go with just MLS stadiums for these)
G7: Real, Guangzhou, Bayern (All matches at NFL venues)
G8: PSG, Club America, Inter (All matches at NFL venues)

I've come up with 5 matches for MLS stadiums, 6 including Atlanta.

The big thing will be to see who qualifies. I also reckon they need to adjust the slots for each region based on where it's being held. If it's in America, you need more concacaf and conmebol teams. If it's in Asia, more afc teams.

FIFA have to be careful. If they reward places purely on merit, they run the risk of having teams no one in the US or China will bother watching. Sevilla, Porto, Ajax, you name it, arent selling many tickets. Even Juve without Ronaldo wouldnt sell that many tickets I reckon. The big money makers in the US are the big English clubs and the 2 big Spanish clubs. And while it's easy enough to imagine Barcelona and Real qualifying, there's less chance of all 6 big English clubs doing so.

I reckon the cwc needs to have up to 10 licenses given out to key clubs to ensure all the big moneymakers play every edition even if they're shite and don't qualify on merit. Meritocracy works on a continental level, it could flop hard done on a global scale.


----------



## JohnDee

US needs a Wembley. An Azteca. A scary fortress where foreign teams dread to tread.


----------



## nyrmetros

JohnDee said:


> US needs a Wembley. An Azteca. A scary fortress where foreign teams dread to tread.


Giants Stadium.........


----------



## BoulderGrad

nyrmetros said:


> Giants Stadium.........


Or AT&T Stadium?
Or SoFi?


----------



## GunnerJacket

*Mod Note:* This thread is not for the Club World Cup, so please direct that discussion elsewhere. 

- - - -



JohnDee said:


> US needs a Wembley. An Azteca. A scary fortress where foreign teams dread to tread.


a. That's not a matter of the venue but of where the crowd will be decidedly pro-American, a hard thing to accomplish in a nation with so many residents from elsewhere/ having allegiances to foreign nations. I think it's getting better and that if the USMNT ever won a major trophy that would definitely turn the tide, but for now it's a tall order to pit the US against another name brand opponent and keep the fans of said opponent away from the match.

b. It's also harder in that the US is so big that even though the American Outlaws and other supporters groups could fill the Rose Bowl if all together, the reality is we're spread out across 2,000+ miles of continent. So the team moves around to reach those fans (a good thing) but makes it harder for other fans to reach some of the matches. 

c. Scheduling plays a part. If the fans knew months in advance about most matches and could buy the equivalent of a season ticket that might help.


----------



## Ramanaramana

Notwithstanding that the US having a national football stadium makes no sense whatsoever, only a few countries actually have national stadiums where all matches are played. Unless it's a small country with only one big city, there's no excuse for not spreading matches around. 

If I had to think of one country that shouldn't have a national stadium, it would be the US. 

I can't even figure out why Mexico has a national stadium, as the Azteca isn't owned by the Mexican FA, but they should also be taking games to Guadalajara, Monterrey and elsewhere.


----------



## ElvisBC

yepp, spread it allaround. I never figured out why FA insists on playing in wembley (no matter the ownership)


----------



## GunnerJacket

Ramanaramana said:


> I can't even figure out why Mexico has a national stadium, as the Azteca isn't owned by the Mexican FA, but they should also be taking games to Guadalajara, Monterrey and elsewhere.


It's considered a national stadium in that when it was built there was an agreement established that would make the venue the preferred home for the national team and be made available for other civic/ political events. I'm guessing that was done to gain funding assistance and give the stadium an aura of prestige, while for the national team it gives them a true home ground that they use well to their advantage; The elevation, the crowds, (the smog!,) and the familiarity of the venue have helped El Tri well over the years. But they play a lot of friendlies in other places, including "home" matches in the US.


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1379116919479996416


----------



## pesto

slipperydog said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1379116919479996416


Interesting. I would have bet Roku would go after that naming right since it's moving in right next door.


----------



## The Game Is Up

A Closer Look At Phoenix Rising FC’s New Stadium


<p>Story by Brandon Bonaparte Arizona sports have shown signs of improvement as of late, with the Cardinals’ offseason moves and the Suns’ regular-season success. However, later this month, a new…</p>




www.sports360az.com


----------



## The Game Is Up

Inter Miami’s stadium gets a naming-rights sponsor for second season


Inter Miami didn’t previously have a naming rights agreement for their stadium, which opened last year for their naugural season in Major League Soccer.




www.sun-sentinel.com


----------



## pesto

ElvisBC said:


> yepp, spread it allaround. I never figured out why FA insists on playing in wembley (no matter the ownership)


Agree completely. The idea of one "National Stadium" sounds more like the oligarchs trying to make the capital the beneficiary of tax money from the surrounding villages and peasantry. Which, in essence, is what it is.

The problem arises from confusing "Capital City" with "Nation"


----------



## Ramanaramana

pesto said:


> Agree completely. The idea of one "National Stadium" sounds more like the oligarchs trying to make the capital the beneficiary of tax money from the surrounding villages and peasantry. Which, in essence, is what it is.
> 
> The problem arises from confusing "Capital City" with "Nation"


The national stadium has for eons been a way of generating revenue for the governing body to help pay for grassroots infrastructure and things that directly benefit the national team, like hiring the best backroom staff. 

In the case of rugby union, the national stadium gives a huge financial advantage to England, which has the highest revenue generating national stadium in the game. 

As in the case of clubs, it’s better to own than to rent. No different to governing bodies. Having assets allows them to generate revenue that they wouldnt be able to taking the team around the country. And from concerts and other events.

This had become even more important since the Premier League broke off from the English FA in the 90s. 

If you can afford a national stadium, it’s always better to have one. 

In principle I think national stadiums shouldnt exist, but it’s completely understandable why do, more so knowing that they arose a very long time ago when stadiums werent so costly, and the governing bodies werent receiving money from participation fees.


----------



## pesto

Ramanaramana said:


> The national stadium has for eons been a way of generating revenue for the governing body to help pay for grassroots infrastructure and things that directly benefit the national team, like hiring the best backroom staff.
> 
> In the case of rugby union, the national stadium gives a huge financial advantage to England, which has the highest revenue generating national stadium in the game.
> 
> As in the case of clubs, it’s better to own than to rent. No different to governing bodies. Having assets allows them to generate revenue that they wouldnt be able to taking the team around the country. And from concerts and other events.
> 
> This had become even more important since the Premier League broke off from the English FA in the 90s.
> 
> If you can afford a national stadium, it’s always better to have one.
> 
> In principle I think national stadiums shouldnt exist, but it’s completely understandable why do, more so knowing that they arose a very long time ago when stadiums werent so costly, and the governing bodies werent receiving money from participation fees.


A nice institutional history, 

The powers-that-be like the idea that money be spent in the capital. funded by nationwide taxes. I would guess that over 100 countries have national stadiums, theaters, operas, polo grounds, yacht harbors, you name it, and practically all are near where the oligarchs have their city homes or luxury estates. 

I would say that if private parties think there is economic sense in putting their money into a national stadium it might be good to have one. If the government thinks so, it can take a vote of nearby residents and merchants to see if they wish to be taxed to build it.


----------



## Ramanaramana

pesto said:


> A nice institutional history,
> 
> The powers-that-be like the idea that money be spent in the capital. funded by nationwide taxes. I would guess that over 100 countries have national stadiums, theaters, operas, polo grounds, yacht harbors, you name it, and practically all are near where the oligarchs have their city homes or luxury estates.
> 
> I would say that if private parties think there is economic sense in putting their money into a national stadium it might be good to have one. If the government thinks so, it can take a vote of nearby residents and merchants to see if they wish to be taxed to build it.


The FA funded the new Wembley (and the old one), and is still paying it off to this day. Many English fans loved it when the new Wembley was being built and they had to take games around the country. Reality says that if you’ve been an owner for a century, becoming a tenant doesn’t sound as appealing. History clearly had influence over the decision to build a new national stadium. 

Most countries that don’t have a national stadium are those with strong states that became unified but where those state/national boundaries are still present in everyday life. Examples include Italy, Spain, Brazil, Germany. You couldn’t get away with a national stadium in Germany or Spain, those countries are built on deep cooperation and sharing between the states. 

England is a country with a primate city. The financial and political centre is London. More relevant to the topic, the FA was founded in London in the 19th century, at a time when rules between the different codes were still being decided. London is key to the development of football, so the national stadium being there and not, say, Birmingham, is understandable. 

The England team playing in London wont make a Mancunian wonder if they should separate from England and form their own country, yet it’s a very real line of thinking in places where the cultural cohesion is much lower among the competing states.


----------



## nyrmetros

BoulderGrad said:


> Or AT&T Stadium?
> Or SoFi?


/sarcasm stadium.....


----------



## pesto

Ramanaramana said:


> The FA funded the new Wembley (and the old one), and is still paying it off to this day. Many English fans loved it when the new Wembley was being built and they had to take games around the country. Reality says that if you’ve been an owner for a century, becoming a tenant doesn’t sound as appealing. History clearly had influence over the decision to build a new national stadium.
> 
> Most countries that don’t have a national stadium are those with strong states that became unified but where those state/national boundaries are still present in everyday life. Examples include Italy, Spain, Brazil, Germany. You couldn’t get away with a national stadium in Germany or Spain, those countries are built on deep cooperation and sharing between the states.
> 
> England is a country with a primate city. The financial and political centre is London. More relevant to the topic, the FA was founded in London in the 19th century, at a time when rules between the different codes were still being decided. London is key to the development of football, so the national stadium being there and not, say, Birmingham, is understandable.
> 
> *The England team playing in London wont make a Mancunian wonder if they should separate from England and form their own country, *yet it’s a very real line of thinking in places where the cultural cohesion is much lower among the competing states.


Sounds like Brexit all over again; are we having a Sunderland moment? lol. 

This isn't that complicated. It doesn't matter where football was invented, or who is good at it, etc. Same as it doesn't matter who the best singers are: the opera goes where the aristocrats, government, wealthy and cultured live. So do the bulk of the upscale goodies: music, art, architecture, sport, gardens, etc. You could put funds somewhere else but only under political duress from those being over-taxed and under-served.

Likewise, if the Capetians had gone to Tours or LImoges that city would be full of monuments and corporate HQ's and Paris would be a backwater. But they went to Paris and everyone who was after the loot followed. 

Off topic, but I'm also not sure about "deep sharing" between Castilians and Basques; or Catalonians, Valencians or Andalusians. Or even Galicia and Aragon for that matter. More like tiredness with mutual slaughter.


----------



## Ramanaramana

pesto said:


> Off topic, but I'm also not sure about "deep sharing" between Castilians and Basques; or Catalonians, Valencians or Andalusians. Or even Galicia and Aragon for that matter. More like tiredness with mutual slaughter.


It would not go down well if the Spanish FA said all matches will be in Madrid from this point on, and would only serve to raise tensions.

Madrid is already the political and financial centre of Spain, which I think contributes to tensions between separatist regions.

Germany does it how it should be for a country that combines states which are culturally different. Berlin is political centre, Frankfurt financial, and the culture is different wherever you go, without one city projecting its culture on to to rest of the country.

Same deal in USA with NY, LA and Washington DC. If you don’t spread the love around, the union wouldn’t survive.

In Spain, when there is an economic crisis, separatism rises. This doesn’t happen in Germany or the US. 

Being by far the most important sport in each of those European countries, these things are a delicate issue. In England, that’s not a problem, so a national stadium is annoying but perfectly acceptable, and financially it becomes advantageous as it brings in more revenue than the countries which to rent from football clubs to play games.


----------



## pesto

Ramanaramana said:


> It would not go down well if the Spanish FA said all matches will be in Madrid from this point on, and would only serve to raise tensions.
> 
> Madrid is already the political and financial centre of Spain, which I think contributes to tensions between separatist regions.
> 
> Germany does it how it should be for a country that combines states which are culturally different. Berlin is political centre, Frankfurt financial, and the culture is different wherever you go, without one city projecting its culture on to to rest of the country.
> 
> Same deal in USA with NY, LA and Washington DC. If you don’t spread the love around, the union wouldn’t survive.
> 
> In Spain, when there is an economic crisis, separatism rises. This doesn’t happen in Germany or the US.
> 
> Being by far the most important sport in each of those European countries, these things are a delicate issue. In England, that’s not a problem, so a national stadium is annoying but perfectly acceptable, and financially it becomes advantageous as it brings in more revenue than the countries which to rent from football clubs to play games.


Agree with everything.

My main point is that In mid-sized or large countries there is no need for a national stadium. Any of several stadiums could serve the purpose (i.e., to host events with large demand). But the connected construction companies want you to believe you need one, and the elites want it near them.

The US is relatively homogeneous for its size: I am comfortable in LA, Boston, Miami or Seattle. But still if there were a National Stadium it would be in DC; same for national museums of various sorts. But that doesn't mean there needs to be one at all.


----------



## Jose_Van_Bertel




----------



## pesto

Jose_Van_Bertel said:


>


Wild Horse Pass!! Makes you think of the Lone Ranger and Roy Rogers. "Get 'em up, Scout!"


----------



## GunnerJacket

Or the Cisco Kid.


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1381668191315763200


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1381675987675537415


----------



## The Game Is Up

Krause's soccer stadium, Bucs' hockey arena make cut for state development tax incentives


The Iowa Economic Development Authority rejected four applications, including West Des Moines' plan to renovate Valley West Mall



www.desmoinesregister.com


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> Or the Cisco Kid.


Or Hopalong.

Actually, I remember those shows as much for Leo Carrillo and Andy Devine as for Hopalong and Cisco..


----------



## The Game Is Up

Well, this is interesting:



> Queensboro FC will make what it has called “an important announcement” about its stadium at York College n Jamaica, Queens Tuesday, April 27.
> 
> According to a QBFC press release, it will be “an exciting new [community and commercial] development for professional sports in NYC.”
> 
> Among the dignatiries scheduled to attend:
> 
> * Jonathan Krane – principal owner, Queensboro FC
> 
> * Justin Papadakis – Chief Operating Officer, United Soccer League
> 
> * Félix V. Matos Rodríguez – chancellor, The City University of New York
> 
> * Berenecea Johnson Eanes – president, York College
> 
> * Gregory Meeks – Congressman
> 
> * Donovan Richards – borough president, Queens
> 
> * Daneek Miller – New York City Council, 27th District
> 
> * Adrienne Adams – New York City Council, 28th District
> 
> * Francisco Moya – New York City Council, 21st District











CIRCLE THAT DATE: Queensboro FC to make stadium announcement at York College Tuesday - Front Row Soccer


Queensboro FC will make what it has called "an important announcement" about its stadium at York College n Jamaica, Queens Tuesday, April 27.




www.frontrowsoccer.com


----------



## pesto

The Game Is Up said:


> Well, this is interesting:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CIRCLE THAT DATE: Queensboro FC to make stadium announcement at York College Tuesday - Front Row Soccer
> 
> 
> Queensboro FC will make what it has called "an important announcement" about its stadium at York College n Jamaica, Queens Tuesday, April 27.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.frontrowsoccer.com


Maybe they will announce solidarity with Europe and the start of litigation to expel MLS clubs from world soccer unless they share their revenues with the heart and soul of soccer, the small clubs and their owners that keep the sport popular and alive?.


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## Ramanaramana

Looks like Miami could be a well supported club if things go well on the pitch. The Kop end looked lively. Phil Neville as manager is an interesting choice. At the very least the players will probably like him. Not a guy who will step on many toes.


----------



## JohnDee

Explain why these brits becks and Neville wear dark formal Oxford blazers and suits and long pants in the near tropics under the blazing afternoon sun? Loosen up lads, it’s Miami not one of those stuffy London men’s clubs. Nobody will think less of you if you don something more climate appropriate. Your precious very English image won’t be tarnished.


----------



## pesto

JohnDee said:


> Explain why these brits becks and Neville wear dark formal Oxford blazers and suits and long pants in the near tropics under the blazing afternoon sun? Loosen up lads, it’s Miami not one of those stuffy London men’s clubs. Nobody will think less of you if you don something more climate appropriate. Your precious very English image won’t be tarnished.


Oh, but their images WILL be tarnished:

In tropical climes there are certain times of day
When all the citizens retire,
to tear their clothes off and perspire.....

But mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the noonday sun.


----------



## Mansa Musa

Hoping U.S soccer has a little more parity than EU soccer once the really league really gets going.


----------



## Ramanaramana

Mansa Musa said:


> Hoping U.S soccer has a little more parity than EU soccer once the really league really gets going.


Interesting to think about, as I reckon I and many other international fans would be less interested in particular leagues and teams if there was more parity. I don't want to watch Manchester United languish in 15th place for 10 years straight as part of some 'rebuild'. Come to think of it the idea of rebuilds doesn't exist in football anyway. You can't tank your way to success like in the NBA. 

Some of the American leagues I casually follow I completely lose interest in for years a time because the team I chose goes through a major drought. Happens in the Australian leagues as well because of equalisation measures.

It's one of the reasons I've come to prefer baseball to the other American leagues. Sure money doesn't guarantee success, but if your team is a top 10 spender year after year and can poach other players regularly on big contracts then you've got a better chance of winning, which holds my interest.

MLS isn't much different. There might be a cap, but it's a very loose cap, and the difference between team spending can be significant. There are teams that spend less than $10 million, and others that spend $25 million. In football 1 or 2 players can make a huge difference to results, especially if it's a playmaker, goalscoring forward or dominant CB.

From what I've seen of MLS, they encourage this. They want superteams because superteams drive interest. I know that the biggest problem MLS has is that it struggles to get football fans who follow European or Mexican football, and that it struggles to get MLS fans to watch matches of other MLS teams as neutrals. Superteams help win over both segments.


----------



## Mansa Musa

Ramanaramana said:


> Interesting to think about, as I reckon I and many other international fans would be less interested in particular leagues and teams if there was more parity. I don't want to watch Manchester United languish in 15th place for 10 years straight as part of some 'rebuild'. Come to think of it the idea of rebuilds doesn't exist in football anyway. You can't tank your way to success like in the NBA.
> 
> Some of the American leagues I casually follow I completely lose interest in for years a time because the team I chose goes through a major drought. Happens in the Australian leagues as well because of equalisation measures.
> 
> It's one of the reasons I've come to prefer baseball to the other American leagues. Sure money doesn't guarantee success, but if your team is a top 10 spender year after year and can poach other players regularly on big contracts then you've got a better chance of winning, which holds my interest.
> 
> MLS isn't much different. There might be a cap, but it's a very loose cap, and the difference between team spending can be significant. There are teams that spend less than $10 million, and others that spend $25 million. In football 1 or 2 players can make a huge difference to results, especially if it's a playmaker, goalscoring forward or dominant CB.
> 
> From what I've seen of MLS, they encourage this. They want superteams because superteams drive interest. I know that the biggest problem MLS has is that it struggles to get football fans who follow European or Mexican football, and that it struggles to get MLS fans to watch matches of other MLS teams as neutrals. Superteams help win over both segments.


I think it's all divergent on a person's individual's tastes. Personally in America if a team does poorly for 10+ odd years like in some cases abroad it may lead to team owners leaving the city due to poor fan interests or lack of free agent signings which will over time separate the big dogs from the little ones. Sure you may have a Leicester case every now and then but without salary caps and competitive measures many owners will have to sell or put a significant amount of capita in their teams to break the wheel once its in motion. But as a United fan Its refreshing having an organization that for decades made the right decisions get rewarded for it instead of punished through cap measures. Such as Golden State being in perpetual cap hell for the next half decade by rewarding their players for the half decade of dominance.


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## Ramanaramana

Ive long held a belief that sports are similar to movies and television.

As in those, you have leading characters, side characters and background extras. 

Most people follow the main characters and root for or against them. But every character has his purpose to fulfill.

Maybe this is dabbling into conspiracy territory, but I reckon some sports executives see things this way too, although they wont admit it publicly. 

It benefits everyone if Man Utd and Liverpool are competing for a title. It benefits everyone if the Yankees and Dodgers are competing. Lakers and Celtics. Real and Barca. Juve and Milan. Bayern and Dortmund. Maple Leafs and Boston. Patriots and Packers. Celtic and Rangers. You get the point.

As most people want to see the travails of the leading characters, it drives interest and revenue higher, which benefits the minor characters as they get to share in more money.

In what world does West Brom get 100m pounds in TV money a year without the big clubs? 

The main characters can be as few as 2, but most of the time wont be higher than 5 or 6 at any one time. 

That's what I think MLS should aim for.....6 or so superclubs who drive interest for the entire league.

Your 2 LA clubs, Seattle, Atlanta, a NY team and let's say Miami. Ideally you would have Chicago in there but Im not seeing that intent from them. The league should do as much as they can to get the best players available into these clubs. They should never go more than one or two years outside playoffs in any decade. 

As cynical as that sounds, it's proven in both the Europran and American model that superteams benefit the game overall.

I would go as far to say that some team owners exist purely to benefit from a rising tide. They dont care if the team challenges or not, so they are happy to see the bigger clubs doing well.


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## slipperydog

*Colorado Springs Switchbacks FC*


























https://twitter.com/MayorofCOS




https://twitter.com/OlympicCityUSA




https://twitter.com/GovofCO


----------



## GunnerJacket

*Mod Note: *Let's not derail another thread with Super League talk, guys. Take that elsewhere. Thank you.


----------



## slipperydog

A professional soccer-specific stadium is coming to New York’s Five Boroughs, and it’s going to be in Queens.

2022 USL Championship expansion side Queensboro FC announced on Tuesday it would open its inaugural season in 7,500-seat soccer-specific venue on the campus of York College of The City University of New York. QBFC’s home has been designed in partnership with Populous, a leading global architecture firm that has created some of the world’s best sporting facilities.

“Today is an exciting day for Queensboro FC. The announcement of our home stadium site at York College represents a bold new chapter for professional sports in New York City,” said Jonathan Krane, Owner of Queensboro FC. “More importantly, we are proud to deliver our QBFC fans a dedicated soccer specific venue, built by and for the Queens community, bringing us all together to celebrate the beautiful game.”

















Queensboro FC Unveils Plans For New York City’s First Professional Soccer-Specific Stadium


Launches The 1909 Club, begins accepting deposits for season tickets ahead of 2022 inaugural season




www.uslchampionship.com


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## GunnerJacket

Hah! That's awesome! Good for them.


----------



## Mansa Musa

NYC really knows how to build em.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Mansa Musa said:


> NYC really knows how to build em.


Maybe my sarcasm meter is off but, assuming you were serious, this would only be the first of its kind. So far, other plans like building it on Willets Point, Elmont or the Harlem River Yards in the Bronx have not panned out. Then there's that NYCFC proposal in the Bronx that I don't know if it'd ever become reality.

Fingers crossed that the Queensboro FC plan gets built.


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387496846675910657


----------



## Mansa Musa

The Game Is Up said:


> Maybe my sarcasm meter is off but, assuming you were serious, this would only be the first of its kind. So far, other plans like building it on Willets Point, Elmont or the Harlem River Yards in the Bronx have not panned out. Then there's that NYCFC proposal in the Bronx that I don't know if it'd ever become reality.
> 
> Fingers crossed that the Queensboro FC plan gets built.


I wasn't sarcastic I really enjoy the stadiums.


----------



## Temporarily Exiled

Very minimal stand coverage in New York is a bold choice. I can only imagine it's budget-related.


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## Ramanaramana

Cost: $1.5 billion











Wouldn't call it a bold choice. Only stadium in New York/New Jersey that has roofing of any kind is Red Bull Arena. No American football or baseball stadium has protection.


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## pesto

The Game Is Up said:


> Maybe my sarcasm meter is off but, assuming you were serious, this would only be the first of its kind. So far, other plans like building it on Willets Point, Elmont or the Harlem River Yards in the Bronx have not panned out. Then there's that NYCFC proposal in the Bronx that I don't know if it'd ever become reality.
> 
> Fingers crossed that the Queensboro FC plan gets built.


I don't think "NYC knows how to build 'em" can be read any way but ironically. Maybe "forgot" instead of "knows" would be OK. 

But, good luck to all of them.


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## goldy21

I wonder if NYCFC considered that site at all?


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## BoulderGrad

Can we not start the roof vs no roof discussion for the 50th time this year?


----------



## pesto

BoulderGrad said:


> Can we not start the roof vs no roof discussion for the 50th time this year?


Uh-oh: I hope your post doesn't actually provoke it. lol.


----------



## Temporarily Exiled

BoulderGrad said:


> Can we not start the roof vs no roof discussion for the 50th time this year?


As long as sports venues in areas with lots of rainfall are designed without roofs, there will likely be a discussion over whether the appropriate choice has been made. Because legacy fans don't enjoy getting soaked.










As far as I'm aware, this is the appropriate forum for discussing such matters.


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## Ramanaramana

goldy21 said:


> I wonder if NYCFC considered that site at all?


The footprint of that stadium is much smaller than NYCFC would need. Seems to penned in by roads and a building. 



BoulderGrad said:


> Can we not start the roof vs no roof discussion for the 50th time this year?


Wasnt an argument over the two. The other poster was confused thinking New York sports teams had roofs when almost none of them do.


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## slipperydog

*Phoenix Rising FC*

























































Rising FC Ready for New Era at Wild Horse Pass


Club’s local identity continues to strengthen as it prepares to open new 10,000-seat home venue




www.uslchampionship.com


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1387949858850447361


----------



## GunnerJacket

BoulderGrad said:


> Can we not start the roof vs no roof discussion for the 50th time this year?


We reset it every calendar year, so we're only at 18 times for 2021. Killjoy.


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## Ramanaramana

I would like to see Phoenix get a team in MLS. Could that location be used to upgrade stadium or would they need to move? 

MLS should tick off Phoenix, Detroit and either Sacramento or San Diego and call it a day. I think they’d have the perfect league without any clear omissions.


----------



## pesto

Ramanaramana said:


> I would like to see Phoenix get a team in MLS. Could that location be used to upgrade stadium or would they need to move?
> 
> MLS should tick off Phoenix, Detroit and either Sacramento or San Diego and call it a day. I think they’d have the perfect league without any clear omissions.


How about LV? It's already got NFL and NHL. NBA and NKS are making noise.

Or do you figure that LV and LA will be getting a lot of action from whatever super league emerges?


----------



## Ramanaramana

pesto said:


> How about LV? It's already got NFL and NHL. NBA and NKS are making noise.
> 
> Or do you figure that LV and LA will be getting a lot of action from whatever super league emerges?


Unless they are going past 32 teams, which would be a very bad idea I reckon as more teams equals more losers which leads to more empty stadiums, doesnt seem like there’s a place for them unless you leave out one of Phoenix or San Diego. If it’s between Sacramento and Las Vegas then yeah that’s a different story.

When the Golden Knights arent one of the best teams in the league, we’ll see what they offer to the league, especially as a bigger fish is now in town.

The Raiders probably dont even need locals to attend. West coast fans flying into Vegas for a weekend trip could keep that place full on its own I bet.

Totally, as Mexican and American teams get closer to one another, no doubt there could be marquee matches played at Allegiant .


----------



## 3SPIRES

My idea for MLS would be 36 teams split into 4 regional divisions of 9 teams; West, Midwest, NE, SE. You play 4/5 home and 4/5 away games against teams in 2 of the other 3 divisions alternating on a yearly basis. So that's 18 games then at the end of the season you play the other teams in your division home and away, a further 16 games. So a 34 game regular season. Top 4 out of 9 qualify for the playoffs. Putting the derby games at the end of the regular season also keeps interest up for the bottom clubs.


----------



## pesto

3SPIRES said:


> My idea for MLS would be 36 teams split into 4 regional divisions of 9 teams; West, Midwest, NE, SE. You play 4/5 home and 4/5 away games against teams in 2 of the other 3 divisions alternating on a yearly basis. So that's 18 games then at the end of the season you play the other teams in your division home and away, a further 16 games. So a 34 game regular season. Top 4 out of 9 qualify for the playoffs. Putting the derby games at the end of the regular season also keeps interest up for the bottom clubs.


This seems to create the European problem of many entitled small-timers in obscure cities feeding on the risks, efforts and money of the serious players. Somehow you have to recompense the "big brands" for hauling in a wider viewership.


----------



## pesto

Ramanaramana said:


> Unless they are going past 32 teams, which would be a very bad idea I reckon as more teams equals more losers which leads to more empty stadiums, doesnt seem like there’s a place for them unless you leave out one of Phoenix or San Diego. If it’s between Sacramento and Las Vegas then yeah that’s a different story.
> 
> When the Golden Knights arent one of the best teams in the league, we’ll see what they offer to the league, especially as a bigger fish is now in town.
> 
> The Raiders probably dont even need locals to attend. West coast fans flying into Vegas for a weekend trip could keep that place full on its own I bet.
> 
> Totally, as Mexican and American teams get closer to one another, no doubt there could be marquee matches played at Allegiant .


I can't disagree. The Raiders are a unique commodity due to playing on weekends, having a large following in CA and attracting visitors. Other sports have to rely on attracting locals. 

But Sacramento really is under consideration and was thought to be a done-deal. To me that implies that some form of break is coming between the bigs and the littles and MLS wants enough teams for two "divisions". 

LV has enough world cachet to warrant some consideration and I can see someone paying plenty for that franchise in a modified MLS which generates substantial media revenue.


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## DublinHoop

pesto said:


> This seems to create the European problem of many entitled small-timers in obscure cities feeding on the risks, efforts and money of the serious players. Somehow you have to recompense the "big brands" for hauling in a wider viewership.


That is possibly the worst take on how football clubs and by extension league systems in, most of the world but you say Europe so lets go with that, operate I have ever seen in my life. Absolutely shocking, not a single even slightly correct statement made in that entire post. I can't actually put into words just how insulting, wrong, arrogant and ignorant that statement is.


----------



## pesto

DublinHoop said:


> That is possibly the worst take on how football clubs and by extension league systems in, most of the world but you say Europe so lets go with that, operate I have ever seen in my life. Absolutely shocking, not a single even slightly correct statement made in that entire post. I can't actually put into words just how insulting, wrong, arrogant and ignorant that statement is.


Well, shucks, I do my best.

Maybe I can make it more neutral: people generally hate to work hard and give their money to others. Eventually they go off on their own (happens 1000 times a day). They deal with others who they think have brains, guts and the will to get something done. They sometimes fail, but often succeed.

People with lots of money put it behind those they think are innovative and can see unmet market demands. They share in the risks and share in the profits. Those who don't want to participate, don't have to.


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## DublinHoop

pesto said:


> Well, shucks, I do my best.
> 
> Maybe I can make it more neutral: people generally hate to work hard and give their money to others. Eventually they go off on their own (happens 1000 times a day). They deal with others who they think have brains, guts and the will to get something done. They sometimes fail, but often succeed.
> 
> People with lots of money put it behind those they think are innovative and can see unmet market demands. They share in the risks and share in the profits. Those who don't want to participate, don't have to.


That still isn't how football pyramids across the world operate. Just stop digging and admit you haven't a clue what you're on about.


----------



## Ramanaramana

pesto said:


> But Sacramento really is under consideration and was thought to be a done-deal. To me that implies that some form of break is coming between the bigs and the littles and MLS wants enough teams for two "divisions".


My thinking is that MLS and Liga MX are going to double down on the Leagues Cup. The name needs to change by the way.

The big/little divide you mention will come about from increased competition between the bigger MLS teams and the traditional big Mexican teams. 

If they get the format right, there wont be a need for a super league.

You can still have MLS, Liga MX, and then the Leagues Cup during weekdays where they tailor the schedule to maximise the America v LA type matches. There's an inventory of 200-400 matches right there a season, and MLS owners of smaller teams cant cry about it.



DublinHoop said:


> That is possibly the worst take on how football clubs and by extension league systems in, most of the world but you say Europe so lets go with that, operate I have ever seen


It's simple human nature to feel entitled to something which you feel you earned.

It's why the rich avoid tax, and why you'd be loath to give up a percentage of salary to pay for someone else.

The extent to which the big clubs drive interest in their leagues goes over the head of the average football fan. Uefa knows all too well, which is why it panicked as if the world was ending.

One way or another, these clubs will get what they want. 

Football fans are traditionalists, which is why so many are struggling to understand and accept the forces driving change. 

It's fine to hate the idea. But to call it the worst take ever, despite knowing that the big clubs all share that view, is a bit rich.


----------



## pesto

DublinHoop said:


> That still isn't how football pyramids across the world operate. Just stop digging and admit you haven't a clue what you're on about.


Pyramids is an unfortunate image since it evokes crumbling decay, lack of change and death.

Certainly the old model was very structured. But the economics of modern media, the international market and digital analytics have changed this so much that to many it seems like a limiting structure for the future. The ESL banditos figure they can make more money playing each other and, say, 20-40 other sides who commit to building international reputations and audiences and thus bring something to the party.

The others can certainly continue as they have been doing, and provide a more homey experience in their locality. I strongly hope they do. But they should not try to stop those who have different goals.


----------



## Football Addict

New Queensboro FC Stadium | 1st Soccer Specific Stadium in NY! 🇺🇸






For decades many teams and multiple investors were unable to build a soccer specific stadium in New York. Now it seems Queensboro FC will break the impasse with their York College project. The Stadium will sit within the York College campus of CUNY. Total Capacity will be 7,500 seats, enough to meet the criteria of USL Championship, USA’s 2nd tier. Queensboro FC was created in late 2019 and expected to debut at the new stadium in 2022. Tight time frame is exactly why modular stands are a crucial part of the plan.


----------



## RMB2007

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1388242312682119169


----------



## Football Addict

Concacaf has announced the 9 Stadiums in 6 US metropolitan areas that will host groups, quarterfinal and semifinal matches in the 2021 Concacaf Gold Cup. This announcement comes after Allegiant Stadium (Las Vegas, NV) and DRV PNK Stadium (Fort Lauderdale, FL) were confirmed as the host venues for the Final (August 1) and the Prelims (July 2-6), respectively. The 2021 Concacaf Gold Cup is a key part of the Confederation’s 60th anniversary celebration and a vibrant summer of football, which will also include the Concacaf Nations League Finals in June. The nine stadiums that will host group and knockout stage matches of this year’s edition of the Concacaf Gold Cup are, in alphabetical order by stadium name (previously hosted Gold Cups): -AT&T Stadium, Arlington, TX (2009, 2011, 2013, and 2017) -BBVA Stadium, Houston, TX (2013, 2015, 2017, and 2019) -Children's Mercy Park, Kansas City, KS (2011, 2015, 2019) -Cotton Bowl, Dallas, TX (1993) -Exploria Stadium, Orlando, FL (first-time host) -NRG Stadium, Houston, TX (2005, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2019) -Q2 Stadium, Austin, TX (first-time host) -State Farm Stadium, Glendale, AZ (2009, 2015, 2017, 2019) -Toyota Stadium, Frisco, TX (2015, 2017, and 2019) These 9 stadiums join the previously announced Allegiant Stadium (Final) and DRV PNK Stadium (Prelims) as the 11 venues that will host 2021 Concacaf Gold Cup matches. To officially kick off the 2021 Gold Cup, 12 nations who qualified through their Concacaf Nations League performances will compete for the final three spots in the 16 team Gold Cup Group Stage via the Prelims.


----------



## GunnerJacket

I'm all for the convenience of regionalizing tournaments to save on travel but what the hell? SIX stadiums in Texas?! Sorry but that's beyond overkill, unless they intend to avoid Texas all together the next two times.


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1389554738602156032


----------



## aquamaroon

I gotta say, the upper south has really impressed me with how well USL and MLS soccer clubs have been doing there. I would never have pegged SEC Country as a hotbed of kicky legball lol but Nashville, Lousiville, Charlotte and now Knoxville all seem to have successful clubs popping up. (Might as well throw Atlanta and Cincinnati in the mix there even though I'd consider that the Deep South as Cincy in the Midwest)


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## slipperydog

*USL Iowa*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1389704261211152396


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1389980717854171140


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1390001887857025031


----------



## slipperydog

In a big step forward for the future of professional soccer in Spokane, Washington, the Spokane Public School Board voted on Wednesday evening to approve a new mixed-use downtown stadium development project that paves the way for a USL League One expansion club in the city. 

“It’s a special day for the city of Spokane,” said United Soccer League COO and Chief Real Estate Officer, Justin Papadakis. “Today’s approval is the culmination of a lot of hard work and energy, and we’re especially thankful to the Downtown Spokane Partnership, led by Mark Richard, the Public Facilities District, led by Stephanie Curran, as well as the Spokane Public School Board. We look forward to Spokane having a professional soccer club that the community can call its own and believe it has all the ingredients to be something truly special.” 

The new venue, which will be located on the banks of the Spokane River, and across the street from the Spokane Arena, will be developed, owned and operated by the Spokane Public Facilities District. 


















New Downtown Spokane Stadium Development Approved by Public School Board


$31 million stadium project in Downtown Spokane to pave the way for USL League One Expansion Team




www.uslleagueone.com


----------



## Temporarily Exiled

Is there any reason why a fair number of USL teams are having new stadiums built? Has there been an influx of money from somewhere? Has interest suddenly ramped up?


----------



## youluckyfellow

Temporarily Exiled said:


> Is there any reason why a fair number of USL teams are having new stadiums built? Has there been an influx of money from somewhere? Has interest suddenly ramped up?


Is it a case that teams are getting their ducks in a row to capitalise on post World Cup boom?


----------



## GunnerJacket

Temporarily Exiled said:


> Is there any reason why a fair number of USL teams are having new stadiums built? Has there been an influx of money from somewhere? Has interest suddenly ramped up?


Not suddenly, but there is now legitimate interest among US sports fans to support pro soccer at varying levels, so the concept is more viable compared to decades ago. MLS laid the foundation for soccer teams to maximize revenues through venue ownership, and built up general support for soccer across the country along with all the foreign leagues readily available on TV, so now more US fans are getting on board. It especially helped that several US teams made it an important part of their experience that they embrace supporters groups and dedicated stands for people wanting to stand and cheer throughout the match, which appealed to fans who felt other sports scenes were a bit too stuffy.


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1390327996519796739


----------



## JYDA

GunnerJacket said:


> I'm all for the convenience of regionalizing tournaments to save on travel but what the hell? SIX stadiums in Texas?! Sorry but that's beyond overkill, unless they intend to avoid Texas all together the next two times.


This has nothing to do with travel costs and everything to do with the relaxed covid restrictions in Texas. Texas is one of the only places that will let them pack stadiums.


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## slipperydog

On Thursday, *The Athletic reported* that Burkle’s group “appears to have enough support from the league’s board of governors to approve a change to its territory rights.” A vote by the board would be required for any such move; no vote has taken place yet, multiple sources tell _The Equalizer_. A vote could happen in the coming weeks, multiple sources say.

The temporary plan from Burkle would be for the team to start play in 2022 at the University of San Diego’s Torero Stadium, a 6,000-seat venue which housed the San Diego Spirit in the WUSA from 2001-2003. USL Championship (second-division) team San Diego Loyal currently plays at Torero Stadium. That team has been searching for land in order to build a stadium, and sources say the Loyal could be a potential partner for an NWSL team looking to build a stadium. San Diego Loyal president and CEO Warren Smith was a founding member of Sacramento Republic FC.

A source with knowledge of the situation told _The Equalizer_ that Burkle has pitched the idea of building a training facility in the San Diego area in time for the 2022 season and building a stadium by 2023. As of yet, he has not presented any concrete details about where or how that would be built. Such ongoing uncertainty has understandably left some of the NWSL’s Board skeptical, another source says, particularly given the recent history of Burkle’s group pulling out of its deal for a Sacramento MLS team.









Burkle’s San Diego proposal gains momentum; formal NWSL Board vote looms – Equalizer Soccer


The National Women’s Soccer League’s potential (and surprising) entry into the San Diego market appears to be inching closer toward reality. The NWSL Board of Governors have now met multiple times to discuss the plan proposed by a group headlined by billionaire Ron Burkle, who originally...




equalizersoccer.com


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1389989203849666565


----------



## Ramanaramana

With the sale of Orlando City to the Wilf family, who own the Minnesota Vikings in the NFL and who at one time competed with the current Minnesota United owners to land an MLS team in Minnesota, for a reported $400-450 million, I had a look at the Forbes valuation of the club in 2019. They valued it at the time as $290 million, between 25-30% less than what the team has sold for. Positive news for MLS and football in North America above the Rio Grande. 

I've seen that Serie A rights have sold for $70 million in the US, with Paramount+ securing the league for 3 years at $200 million. And today it's been reported that La Liga rights in the US, which are moving to ESPN, have sold for $175 million over 8 years, with a total value of $1.4 billion. 

That means the Premier League, who currently get $166 million a year over 6 years at $1 billion for duration of contract, should see a significant rise too, as has been predicted. And if the PL ends up going for $300-400 million a year, that bodes well for MLS I reckon. 

The landscape for MLS is vastly different to that of the last renegotiation, and local deals have been done away with to pool into a comprehensive national package for broadcasters. Without going into details, it is very likely that the MLS deal will surprise many, not least because American broadcasters are bidding up rights for sports for their streaming services. They have a very strong hand to play coming in to negotiations, and it would be surprising to see it go for less than $300 million a year.

I'm just an observer, but I'm very bullish on MLS and North American football. There is so much to like, and it's not surprising to see yet another NFL owner buy into the league, even one who has had to look to the other side of the country to secure a team as the Wilfs have. 

For a supposed footballing backwater, the amount of money in the game is spectacular, and we are nowhere near to realising the potential. It's great seeing all these stadiums pop up all over the place, both at MLS and USL level, but it's equally important to see football really beginning to embed itself above the Rio Grande. Would anyone have predicted 10 years ago that the value of football broadcasting deals would exceed $1 billion a year? Or that there'd be several billions spent on stadiums? Can't wait to see how it all looks in 2030/40/50, and that's before mentioning the rising cooperation with Mexico.


----------



## The Game Is Up

GunnerJacket said:


> Not suddenly, but there is now legitimate interest among US sports fans to support pro soccer at varying levels, so the concept is more viable compared to decades ago. MLS laid the foundation for soccer teams to maximize revenues through venue ownership, and built up general support for soccer across the country along with all the foreign leagues readily available on TV, so now more US fans are getting on board. It especially helped that several US teams made it an important part of their experience that they embrace supporters groups and dedicated stands for people wanting to stand and cheer throughout the match, which appealed to fans who felt other sports scenes were a bit too stuffy.


We now have an embarrassment of riches of venues to choose from for international events. Everything from small and intimate to very large for mass crowds. I remember a time when the USMNT had to rent a college football or high school football stadium to play internationals. My how times change.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Ramanaramana said:


> That means the Premier League, who currently get $166 million a year over 6 years at $1 billion for duration of contract, should see a significant rise too, as has been predicted. And if the PL ends up going for $300-400 million a year, that bodes well for MLS I reckon.


Will be curious to see how this one plays out since NBC is giving up the NBCSN platform that has hosted so many Prem matches in the hopes of driving more fans to their subscription service. I know I won't be paying for it. 



> The landscape for MLS is vastly different to that of the last renegotiation, and local deals have been done away with to pool into a comprehensive national package for broadcasters. Without going into details, it is very likely that the MLS deal will surprise many, not least because American broadcasters are bidding up rights for sports for their streaming services. They have a very strong hand to play coming in to negotiations, and it would be surprising to see it go for less than $300 million a year.


The current deal for MLS pays out roughly $3M per team after you account for the money paid to USSF for USMNT matches. Given MLS expansion plans, the upcoming WC, and designs for roster improvements the league is said to be seeking $300mm as a minimum, which would allow for $8mm+ per team even at 30-32 teams. Still not enough to make every MLS roster competitive with the likes of Monterrey but it's one step further in increasing the volume and quality of jobs available for folks considering full-time soccer careers. Plus, the next TV deal will likely end shortly after WC'26, so the hope is that event will provide further boost for the subsequent deals.


----------



## Ramanaramana

GunnerJacket said:


> said to be seeking $300mm as a minimum, which would allow for $8mm+ per team even at 30-32 teams. Still not enough to make every MLS roster competitive with the likes of Monterrey .


With you on all you said.

Id add No need for every team to compete with Monterrey. Some teams are spending 10 times the amount of the salary cap thru exemptions currently.

A rise to 8-10 million drastically improves the standard of players that are 4-11 in terms of quality on a team. Many MLS teams already have very decent 1, 2, or 3 best players. Bringing up the average quality of the rest of the starting 11 by tripling the cap will do wonders in Champs League.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Well, the Monterrey reference was just as a benchmark. The main thing, as you allude, is that each team would be able to field much deeper squads. 10 years ago MLS teams still had guys on the first team roster that needed second jobs. Even with the salary news released this week there are still a lot of guys making < $100k. Given the relatively short careers athletes have that's not enough to endear talented to stay, so every time the league can raise that lowest level it will do wonders for the quality of each team. Which in turn will hopefully get more fans showing up and tuning in.

Meanwhile, back on the stadium front, Cincy's gem of a venue, TQL Stadium, makes its debut this weekend.


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1394428872750424066


----------



## The Game Is Up

Soccer stadium owners: We’re here in Pawtucket to stay


----------



## Ramanaramana

Following shortly after the sale of Orlando, Houston has sold for $400 million. I doubt it will happen, but a reconfigured roof and changing colour scheme of seats could make their stadium look in line with the newer builds in MLS.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Ramanaramana said:


> Following shortly after the sale of Orlando, Houston has sold for $400 million. I doubt it will happen, but a reconfigured roof and changing colour scheme of seats could make their stadium look in line with the newer builds in MLS.


That's a pretty big "wouldn't it be nice". Roof structures (esp ones that are cantilevered way out over the stands) are not trivial. Plus working around the existing stand and the team's schedule, you might as well build a whole new stadium for what BBVA cost them.


----------



## Benn

BoulderGrad said:


> That's a pretty big "wouldn't it be nice". Roof structures (esp ones that are cantilevered way out over the stands) are not trivial. Plus working around the existing stand and the team's schedule, you might as well build a whole new stadium for what BBVA cost them.



Depends on how they sized the columns & bracing around the corners and ends. if the whole thing is built to the same dimensions/loading capacity as the sidelines it'd be doable, but definitely a bit of an undertaking. They would also need to rework some of the facade to look right with the new roof and figure out how to incorporate scoreboards. It wouldn't be cheap, but way cheaper than a whole new stadium, assuming the existing structure could handle adding the extra weight. It'd definitely be an improvement on what BBVA is today, but I agree that they probably don't want to throw around the $75 million or whatever to retrofit it with a continuous roof.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Benn said:


> Depends on how they sized the columns & bracing around the corners and ends. if the whole thing is built to the same dimensions/loading capacity as the sidelines it'd be doable, but definitely a bit of an undertaking. They would also need to rework some of the facade to look right with the new roof and figure out how to incorporate scoreboards. It wouldn't be cheap, but way cheaper than a whole new stadium, assuming the existing structure could handle adding the extra weight. It'd definitely be an improvement on what BBVA is today, but I agree that they probably don't want to throw around the $75 million or whatever to retrofit it with a continuous roof.


That's the thing... BBVA was the last of the cheap-ish SSS's. It was built for $95mil in 2012 (~$105mil in today's dollars). So $75mil is not far off of doubling the price of the stadium.


----------



## Benn

Yeah, but it'd be waaaay cheaper than dropping $250-300 million on a scratch built stadium along the lines of Q2 or Allianz or TQL or whatever, while giving one of the key amenities that BBVA is currently lacking compared to the recent class of stadiums. Its got the suites and club seats, its got a very decently sized concourse, good concessions & restroom counts. The press facilities are a little odd and it doesn't have any loge boxes (which is an easy fix), but it would otherwise be a very good stadium.


----------



## Ramanaramana

Temporarily Exiled said:


> Is there any reason why a fair number of USL teams are having new stadiums built? Has there been an influx of money from somewhere? Has interest suddenly ramped up?


I just came across this new article and I was reminded of this post. Here’s a new interview that sheds light on this.









The USL Is Experiencing A Soccer Stadium Boom. Its Real Estate Chief Explains Why.


The second of three new facilities will open on Friday night, and three more have received various levels of government approval over the last six months. In an interview, the USL's Justin Papadakis explains that progress, and hints at what is next.




www.forbes.com


----------



## Jose_Van_Bertel

#SwitchbacksFC


----------



## slipperydog

*Monterey Bay FC*

The CSUMB campus sits in the middle of the Monterey Peninsula, which features the coastal communities of Marina, Pacific Grove, Monterey, Seaside, Carmel and the Salinas Valley, and is less than a mile from the beach. Formerly the site of the decommissioned Army base Fort Ord, the site has undergone a transformation into a state-of-the-art campus that is also home to The Panetta Institute for Public Policy.

*STADIUM KEY FEATURES*
*Architect: *HOK
*Capacity: *Approximately 6,000
*Completion Date: *March 2022

The North and South Seating Sections are lined at the top by the region’s iconic Monterey cypress trees
Supporter section behind the goal on the east-side
Designated sections for CSUMB students and general admission attendees on the East side
Seat-backs for portions of the North and South Seating Sections; updated bleacher seating for multiple sections
FIFA-approved turf
Merchandise and concessions
Premium seating area with hospitality and open-air seating
Addition of a Broadcast/Press Box at the top of the South Seating Section
Updates and renovations of the offices and field house which will house the home and away locker rooms and Monterey Bay FC HQ
Installation of four 90-foot high poles with broadcast sports lighting for nighttime matches

























STADIUM - Monterey Bay Football Club | USL Championship


A HOME PITCH FOR SOCCER ATCARDINALE STADIUM Monterey Bay F.C. privately invested over $11 million in renovations to the existing stadium and facilities on the campus of CSUMB – previous […]




www.montereybayfc.com


----------



## The Game Is Up

Lynn Family Stadium ready for years-in-the-making grand opening celebration


Amid a global pandemic, the newly completed Lynn Family Stadium opened with little fanfare and operated at reduced capacity last year.




www.wlky.com


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1397664787807485952


----------



## GunnerJacket

Looks really nice. Hope the venue finds a user in the event the Independence don't last more than a couple of years hence.


----------



## The Game Is Up

*Joe Davis stadium renovations in Huntsville, Ala.*









Huntsville in talks to bring minor league soccer to Joe Davis Stadium


The stadium, former home to the Huntsville Stars, is undergoing a major renovation.




www.al.com

















































Joe Davis Stadium expected to re-open in fall 2022 as multi-sport facility


The City of Huntsville said “the New Joe” will have an artificial turf field, ready for football, soccer, lacrosse, field hockey, and ultimate frisbee.




whnt.com


----------



## JohnDee

Soccer could easily surpass baseball in the future bringing an ever increasing boom in stadium construction. MLS stadiums will have the potential to become large once the sport takes off big time, benefiting from the decline in older sports like bball and the niche hockey. I think even bball, popular today because of teen idol behavior and outlandish egos with fashion style, will succumb to the ever increasing popularity of the superior game, futbol. Baseball is not favored by younger generations and is a game which many youth, used to a fast paced lifestyle of video Games, Twitter, netflux, etc will not tolerate such a slow cerebral game that takes 4 hours of their time. I predict soccer as the number 2 sport in 50 years And la will have a 60k seater soccer stadium.


----------



## The Game Is Up

DRV PNK Stadium at Full Capacity for Saturday’s Match Against D.C. United | Inter Miami CF


The upcoming clash against D.C. United on Saturday, May 29 at 8 p.m. ET at DRV PNK Stadium is officially sold through its allowed capacity to adhere to MLS’s restrictions around competition areas. This momentous day for Inter Miami will mark the first time in history that the stadium will




www.intermiamicf.com


----------



## Ramanaramana

JohnDee said:


> Soccer could easily surpass baseball in the future bringing an ever increasing boom in stadium construction. MLS stadiums will have the potential to become large once the sport takes off big time, benefiting from the decline in older sports like bball and the niche hockey. I think even bball, popular today because of teen idol behavior and outlandish egos with fashion style, will succumb to the ever increasing popularity of the superior game, futbol. *Baseball is not favored by younger generations and is a game which many youth*, used to a fast paced lifestyle of video Games, Twitter, netflux, etc will not tolerate such a slow cerebral game that takes 4 hours of their time.  *I predict soccer as the number 2 sport in 50 years And la will have a 60k seater soccer stadium*.


More kids play baseball than association football in US. That people are not watching 4 hour baseball matches doesn't really matter. They follow it in different ways......boxscores, clips, highlights, Reddit, phone apps. As long as they're following it somehow, they're a fan, and the sport will remain popular. I only watch full baseball matches during playoffs, the rest of the time youtube highlights, and consider myself a fan. 

I'm bullish on football in America and MLS, but the kind of scenario you're talking about isn't going to happen. People tend of overestimate the popularity of things they're interested in, while downplaying the popularity of things they're not interested in. I see it all the time, and used to make the same mistake. Never underestimate the staying power of culture and tradition. The world's sporting preferences have been set in stone for some time, and there's very little outside forces can do about it.


----------



## Ramanaramana

To follow up on recent posts about the sale price of Orlando and Houston in $400-500 million range, I just read that an investor group involving an NFL player has purchased a minority stake in DC United which values the club at $700 million. A similar scenario played out with LAFC last which also valued it at $700 million.

I would not consider DC United as appealing as LAFC as an investment, or indeed any of the ‘elite’ clubs in the league, so it’s surprising to see such figures. I dont believe DC own the stadium or the land it’s built on, but rather operate it. This is in contrast to LAFC who own their stadium.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Ramanaramana said:


> To follow up on recent posts about the sale price of Orlando and Houston in $400-500 million range, I just read that an investor group involving an NFL player has purchased a minority stake in DC United which values the club at $700 million. A similar scenario played out with LAFC last which also valued it at $700 million.
> 
> I would not consider DC United as appealing as LAFC as an investment, or indeed any of the ‘elite’ clubs in the league, so it’s surprising to see such figures. I dont believe DC own the stadium or the land it’s built on, but rather operate it. This is in contrast to LAFC who own their stadium.


It's officially owned by the city, but in function (and in terms of team value), an operator lease deal is pretty much treated as them owning the stadium. It might even be better. None of the liability or cost, but all of the control of the revenue and scheduling.


----------



## pesto

BoulderGrad said:


> It's officially owned by the city, but in function (and in terms of team value), an operator lease deal is pretty much treated as them owning the stadium. It might even be better. None of the liability or cost, but all of the control of the revenue and scheduling.


Yes, but normally you do have the usual liabilities and (presumably) you paid something for the lease at the front end or periodically.

This is found in a number of jurisdictions where it is legally impossible to "sell" the property (typically some statute bars sales of state owned land or land dedicated to some purpose). There is no legal ownership of the property but you have the right to derive other revenues from the property.

A well-known case is in LA, where the state/county/city own the Coliseum, but USC has a 99 year operating lease PLUS the right to make capital investment decisions. This is effective economic ownership,

As a side note, LAFC negotiated with USC and subleased from them the land on which they built BOC stadium.


----------



## The Game Is Up

With downtown stadium moving forward, United Soccer League planting seeds of new Spokane team


It will be two years before Spokane plays host to a professional soccer team, but you wouldn’t know it by talking to Justin Papadakis.




www.spokesman.com


----------



## The Game Is Up

Construction starts on locker room facility at SLU’s soccer stadium


Construction has started on a new locker room and athletic training center at Saint Louis University’s soccer stadium.




fox2now.com


----------



## slipperydog

*USL Rhode Island*

PAWTUCKET – Fortuitous Partners has selected Providence-based Dimeo Construction Company as the construction managers and general contractors for the Tidewater Landing stadium project, following a competitive request for proposals bidding process.

The stadium will break ground this fall and be completed in 2023, one year later than the 2022 opening that was once announced, say those behind it.

“Fortuitous Partners is excited to advance to the construction phase of Tidewater Landing,” said Brett Johnson, founder of Fortuitous Partners. “We could not be more excited to make Tidewater Landing a reality for Pawtucket, the Blackstone Valley and Rhode Island.”

Dimeo Construction Company has local roots here in Rhode Island and New England, as well as national expertise in complex construction projects, said Johnson.

https://www.valleybreeze.com/2021-06-08/pawtucket/dimeo-will-build-pawtucket-s-new-soccer-stadium


----------



## RMB2007

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1407701105660805121

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1407716377146933249


----------



## GunnerJacket

Kudos to them, as that looks like a grand little stadium.


----------



## The Game Is Up

State awards $23.5 million to Des Moines for soccer stadium project at former Superfund site


The Iowa Soccer Development Foundation has now raised over $43 million for the proposed $83.5 million stadium.




www.weareiowa.com


----------



## BoulderGrad

Benn said:


> This a much, much better put together building than either Cincinnati or Austin, all are quality stadiums but for me Columbus is the clear winner of the three. Cincy is bigger, but thats the only thing I like better about it. This stadium has a consistency to the architecture at a variety of scales; the angular slicing motif carries through from the Roof wrap, to the seating bowl, to the angles on the exterior of the concessions areas and the restaurant. It all feels purposeful, the only thing they screwed up here (apart the atrocious sponsorship name) is the seat pattern, which while unique, I agree is genuinely bad. The fit & finish has nice, consistent, quality feel to it and the whole thing has its own, unique vibe. Just the most attractive architecture all the way around.
> 
> Cincinnati strikes me as the love child of Red Bull Arena & Allianz Field. Conceptually, it feels like they really liked the flowing wrap idea like Allianz, but didn't have other ideas and everything else feels a bit haphazard. Its definitely a good stadium, but the exterior only strikes me as attractive when its lit up at night, during the day everything apart from the ACM fin wrap looks half finished, and the wrap only really shows out when its lit up at night. The seating bowl is mostly well done but the way the brought the stands together around the supporters section feels really half cooked. The design for that end could have used another couple of iterations before they started actually building.
> 
> I would also rank Austin a clear step down from Columbus. It's pretty well done, but the roof and the exterior design got progressively worse from the initial renderings to the final result. I also much preferred the two tiered end stand opposite the supporters rather than the sort of generic three story building with some boxes on the top level and a blank wall in the middle that got built in that end. What they really got right in Austin is the seat pattern, the pixelated green pattern looks fantastic, don't know why more teams haven't done that sort of thing. Also the openness combined with substantial shading also seems really well thought out climactic strategy for a southern stadium. All in all definitely a good stadium, but i was hoping for more after the brilliant original renderings.
> 
> If I were ranking the purpose built stadiums in the league out next year, I am pretty sure it would look like this:
> 1. Banc of California Stadium - LAFC
> 2. St Louis SC stadium - St Louis
> 3. Lower.com Field - Columbus
> 4. Allianz Field - Minnesota
> 5. Children's Mercy Park - Kansas City
> 6. TQL Stadium - Cincinnati
> 7. Q2 Stadium - Austin
> 8. Nashville SC Stadium - Nashville
> 9. Red Bull Arena -Red Bull NY
> 10. Exploria Stadium - Orlando
> 11. Paypal Park - San Jose
> 12. BBVA Stadium - Houston
> 13. Providence Park - Portland (adapted, not puose built, but its purely an MLS stadium at this point)
> 14. BMO Field -Toronto
> 15. Rio Tinto Stadium - RSL
> 16. Dignity Health - LA Galaxy
> 17. Audi Field - DC United
> 18. Stade Saputo - Montreal
> 19. Toyota Stadium - Dallas
> 20. Dicks Sporting Goods Park - Colorado
> 21. Subaru Park - Philadelphia
> 22. DRV PNK Stadium - Miami, with a huge asterisk of it being the temporary home with a great design on the boards for a permanent home.


Continuing this here so it doesn't turn into a stadium rank 'em in the New Crew Stadium thread.

I'd put most of the SSS 1.0 stadiums a little lower. DSG, Toyota Stadium, and Saputo Stadium feel cheap, bland, etc. Single bowls with no real architectural charm (okay, maybe the roof at DSG?). I'd also drop Audi Field further. I know it was circumstances out of their control, but it came out a disjointed mess. There's bits and pieces of a good stadium there, but they've all been Frankenstein'ed together. 

All that being said, kindof exciting for the league to be allllmost there with getting every one of their teams in a good stadium situation.

Need a new stadium yesterday:
NYCFC-Yankee Stadium
New England-Gillette Field (Tho I almost put them in the next category, as it works just fine for the team. Just not the fans.)
Miami-DRV PNK Stadium/Miami Freedom Park (Any day now Becks...)

Okay for now, but could use an upgrade:
Colorado-DSGP
Dallas-Toyota Field
Chicago-Soldier Field
LA Galaxy-Dignity Health Sports Park (Should be in the next category, but here only because Banc of Cali is just up the road)

Not perfect, but fine for the long haul:
Philadelphia-Subaru Park (Needs to be in the Philly stadium park)
Montreal-Stade Saputo
Portland-Provdidence Park (some people like its quirkiness, I wish they could finish off the seating bowl and remove the goofy baseball boxes)
DC-Audi Field
Vancover-BC Place
Charlotte-BofA Stadium
Toronto-BMO Field
NYRB-Red Bull Arena (Stadium is great, but being out in Jersey hurts them a bit)

Good to go:
LAFC-Banc of California Stadium
Columbus-Lower.Com Field
Cincinnati-TQL Park
Austin-Q2 Stadium
Saint Louis-New Stadium
Nashville-Fairgrounds Stadium
KC-Children's Mercy Park
San Jose-PayPal Park
Minnesota-Allianz Field
Atlanta-Mercedes Benz Stadium
Seattle-Lumen Field
Houston-BBVA
Orlando-Exploria Field
RSL-Rio Tinto Stadium


----------



## Ramanaramana

La Galaxy seems like they could rebuild on the same site in phases. Sameish capacity, just make it look on par with newer stadiums. I havent seen anyone complain about location so I assume it’s fine. 

Nycfc looks like it’ll get its stadium. 

Miami too, eventually.

Chicago we are led to believe is a stopover to better things. 

Dallas and Colorado both have ok skeletons in place. Like Galaxy maybe they could renovate extensively. Id also put Salt Lake in this category, good framework that needs more meat on it. 

New England just needs a new stadium fullstop. Dont think it even needs to be a football stadium, just a new one for both teams as that place looks miles behind many nfl stadiums these days.


----------



## master_klon

Ditto on those new stadiums, hopefully by the time the WC rolls around those last stragglers sort their shit out. I can see a lot of people start checking out MLS for the first time including a good number of top level players/upcoming talent, so hopefully the insfrastructure is there to elevate their experience.

Besides that my wishlist is...

Colorado and Philly to move into their city's stadium precincts.
Same for Dallas but they are too invested into Frisco for now so park that for 10 years. In the meantime complete the roof around stadium to shade the supporters, and in a couple years complete the bowl seating on stage end.
Kansas to expand their stadium.
RSL stadium was due for expansion until MLS bought out the owners. Hopefully new owners are ambitious and will carry out the project.
Can we get a facade on San Jose's stadium already....geez. I dont get the bar thing haha, a single kop end would be much cooler although demand isnt there yet/owners are too shit for their team.
Galaxy could do with just changing all the benches over to seats. Supporters end looks good, carry that same branding around.


----------



## Ramanaramana

Here are some stats from Google to chew on. In the past 12 months, the most popular football leagues in the USA by web searches are.... (from google.......Numbers represent search interest relative to the highest point on the chart for the given region and time. A value of 100 is the peak popularity for the term. A value of 50 means that the term is half as popular. A score of 0 means that there was not enough data for this term )


1. EPL 42
2. LigaMX 25
3. Champions League 25
4. La Liga 20
5. Serie A 7
*6. MLS 5*
7. Europa League 4
8. Bundesliga 3
9. Ligue 1 2
This doesn't reflect the main things that make a league successful, such as attendance and viewership on tv, which would make MLS look better, and it makes leagues that play more often and longer look more popular, but it's interesting as a snapshot of casual interest. I often search up NBA box scores on google but rarely watch matches or even highlights. I suspect there are lots of people in that data who search up La Liga results for Barca and Real but are not avid watchers of the league, or Serie A to catch up on Ronaldo's exploits.

That being said the data is a decent gauge for casual interest. I'm not surprised by it as this has been the norm since I've been looking at it, but if you look at how much money is flowing in MLS, the stadiums being built, the attendances, the expected hike in broadcast deal, and the overall positive vibe in the league's future, it goes to show how much the league still has to go.

It also shows the potential there.......what would MLS look like if it was neck and neck with EPL in interest?

I can't think of another league on the planet that has done what MLS has done despite being the 3rd/4th most popular football league in a country in which football isn't even a top 5 sport. It's truly remarkable. Frightening to think what it will become when it realises that potential.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Ramanaramana said:


> New England just needs a new stadium fullstop. Dont think it even needs to be a football stadium, just a new one for both teams as that place looks miles behind many nfl stadiums these days.


Gillette Stadium is getting a massive new scoreboard (plus other cosmetic touches) as we speak and is money maker for the Patriots, so don't expect a new NFL venue in the area any time soon.



> Dallas and Colorado both have ok skeletons in place.


Dallas just completed a (for them) major renovation of one end, one side, and added in the new US Soccer Hall of Fame. Might be some time before they can swing another major investment, but their fans have been calling for more protection from the sun. 



master_klon said:


> Galaxy could do with just changing all the benches over to seats. Supporters end looks good, carry that same branding around.


Not sure how much bleacher seating is left since the Chargers renovated the venue in 2017. Could be that what's left is already in the cheap seats. 



Ramanaramana said:


> Here are some stats from Google to chew on. In the past 12 months, the most popular football leagues in the USA by web searches are....


One wonders if those scores also include the names of teams and/or players within each league? (ie: Does "Messi" count as a search for La Liga?) 

Bottom line for MLS remains the ambitions with TV and online viewership, as that's the source of money multipliers. 

Meanwhile, with the Crew's new stadium coming online here's an article recounting the opening of each new MLS venue.


----------



## JJG

The commentary on Dallas (Frisco) is exactly why I wish someone would buy and renovate old Farrington Field here in Ft. Worth for MLS. It's still for sale by way of FWISD.


Within walking distance of a major Urban Village (West 7th), across the street from the Cultural District museums and attached to Trinity Park.
Access to public transit, something Toyota Stadium in Frisco can't say.
Already has a capacity of 18k, but can be modified... I'm thinking, lower the field, get rid of the track, add some seats at the bottom, demolish a percentage of the old stands like Amon G. Carter down the street at TCU, maybe have the club end at the north side...




























Of course... that's just a pipe dream at the moment.


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1410358491299078149


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1412891386324602883

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1412451142253039620


----------



## The Game Is Up

Good Question: Are the Rhinos and Rochester in talks for a new stadium lease?


After some major news for the Rochester Rhinos this summer, many of you asked Brennan Somers if this means the team will return to the city's stadium downtown.




www.whec.com


----------



## The Game Is Up

Development of Pawtucket soccer stadium under way


Developer has hired Dimeo Construction to build the 11,000-seat stadium and intend to begin construction shortly after Labor Day.



www.providencejournal.com


----------



## krnboy1009

GunnerJacket said:


> Kudos to them, as that looks like a grand little stadium.


Charlotte Independence should be in MLS with SSS built on that site.

Instead we got generic garbage name Charlotte FC in an NFL stadium with turf.


----------



## GunnerJacket

The owners of Independence aren't as aggressive on the sports-funding side, and in the minor leagues their franchise hasn't exactly blown the doors off. Compared to an NFL owner prepared to invest in the effort and on board with MLS' business plans there's no real contest between the two.

Preferences for a different name or grass or a SSS are fine, but the Independence as an organization were never going to check the boxes for MLS.


----------



## Ramanaramana

krnboy1009 said:


> Charlotte Independence should be in MLS with SSS built on that site.
> 
> Instead we got generic garbage name Charlotte FC in an NFL stadium with turf.


That happened in Minneapolis. NFL v SSS. SSS won because it had a concrete stadium plan in place and willingness to pay expansion fee. 

Willing to bet the same outcome if Independence had anything similar lined up. We are talking about spending $500 million or more to turn that dream into reality. 

The upside is that Charlotte MLS branding is strong, and the stadium though not ideal in size and lack of roof is in a downtown location as good as that stadium by the looks of it.


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1416073663044935680










__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1415703122291220483


----------



## The Game Is Up

Portland will consider plans for pro soccer stadium, after getting OK as franchise site


A Portland City Council committee will take a first look Tuesday at ideas for a soccer stadium, which is required in order for a pro team to play under a newly awarded franchise agreement with USL League One.




www.mainebiz.biz


----------



## JJG

So... this just popped up this morning:











I can't post the Star-Telegram article due to a paywall, but:



> The United Soccer League met with Mayor Parker to discuss bringing a team to Fort Worth. The article talks about stadium possibilities at 35W/Basswood (above) and another near Walsh Ranch. Councilman Moon says the northside plan would bring in 400 events per year and "move the needle more toward the city relying on commercial tax than on residential taxes."


Personally (and I'm not the only one) I wouldn't want a stadium out in the suburbs when Farrington Field, as I posted here before, is still for sale and in an already established, walkable neighborhood in the core of the city with access to public transit.


----------



## slipperydog




----------



## Urmstoniain

Saw a post on another thread suggesting that Las Vegas was in the running to be the 30th MLS club - which got me thinking....

What is the end-game aspiration - and/or how are things likely to pan out in reality - in terms of maximum number of clubs?

As far as I'm aware, the largest divisions in Europe's leagues are 20-team (England, France, Spain, Italy). Assuming a two-conference set-up, and no 2nd tier with promotion/relegation, could MLS hit 40?


----------



## GunnerJacket

Urmstoniain said:


> What is the end-game aspiration - and/or how are things likely to pan out in reality - in terms of maximum number of clubs?


Don't want to bog the thread down but I'll simply say this: There is no number for which MLS is targeting. For now the league will grow so long as it makes financial sense for itself and the individual teams. If you want to hear more about this we can discuss via PM.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Urmstoniain said:


> Saw a post on another thread suggesting that Las Vegas was in the running to be the 30th MLS club - which got me thinking....
> 
> What is the end-game aspiration - and/or how are things likely to pan out in reality - in terms of maximum number of clubs?
> 
> As far as I'm aware, the largest divisions in Europe's leagues are 20-team (England, France, Spain, Italy). Assuming a two-conference set-up, and no 2nd tier with promotion/relegation, could MLS hit 40?


That's mainly the top leagues as they play in lots of tournaments like the FA cup and Champions league. Lower divisions like the English Championship and such have 24 teams and 46 game schedules.

32 teams is a good number for North American leagues. Divisible by 4 a number of times, good national coverage while still leaving a few markets open to leverage tax dollars from move threats, still manageable to have exposure for all the teams in the league every other year or so, etc. The NFL has been sitting at that for nearly 20 years now. Figure MLS will get there and stop for a while.


----------



## JJG

👀👀👀


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1425668706932346883


----------



## GunnerJacket

That will be an interesting story to watch, because the club by nature is as close as America gets to being a grass-roots, anti-establishment effort. They began outside the USL structure explicitly to avoid being part of "the system." Funny how popularity and business opportunism can change one's perspective.


----------



## slipperydog

GunnerJacket said:


> That will be an interesting story to watch, because the club by nature is as close as America gets to being a grass-roots, anti-establishment effort. They began outside the USL structure explicitly to avoid being part of "the system." Funny how popularity and business opportunism can change one's perspective.


Their supporters are now arguing that they "aim to change the system from within."


----------



## GunnerJacket

Uh, yeah, good luck with that.


----------



## bd popeye

*








2022 Concacaf World Cup Qualifying: USA 2 - Mexico 0 | Match Report, Stats & Standings


USA Now First in Octagonal Standings as Pulisic Scores Five Minutes After Entering Match and McKennie Nets Late Insurance Goal; USMNT Closes Out November World Cup Qualifying Window on Tuesday, Nov. 16 at Jamaica (5 p.m. ET; Paramount+, Universo)




www.ussoccer.com




*
USMNT defeated Mexico 2-0 before a sellout crowd of 26,000 in Cincinnati's TQL Stadium.


----------



## pesto

GunnerJacket said:


> Uh, yeah, good luck with that.


The image I get here is of punk rockers saying "fk the establishment" and then being chauffeured to their private jets and flown to their private islands.


----------



## JJG

So, I missed this a couple weeks ago...

*Sources: Austin Bold owner tells players, staff that club will move to Fort Worth after season*



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453069632240238601


----------



## JJG

JJG said:


> So, I missed this a couple weeks ago...
> 
> *Sources: Austin Bold owner tells players, staff that club will move to Fort Worth after season*
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453069632240238601



*Texas Motor Speedway*
*North Freeway*
*CTP/Edwards Ranch*
*20 & Walsh*

(And I say that *Farrington Field* should STILL be strongly considered... still for sale, btw.)


----------



## Ramanaramana

48,000 and 44,000….apparently 50,000 sold but weather prevented such turnout….both in Edmonton this week for Canada’s wins over Costa Rica and Mexico. I reckon when both teams are doing well, which in Canada’s case hasn’t been ever maybe, Canadian team is more popular than US. I understand USA federation picks places which are harder for opponents, but they need to show more ambition than 20,000 seaters for qualifiers.


----------



## ielag

Ramanaramana said:


> 48,000 and 44,000….apparently 50,000 sold but weather prevented such turnout….both in Edmonton this week for Canada’s wins over Costa Rica and Mexico. I reckon when both teams are doing well, which in Canada’s case hasn’t been ever maybe, Canadian team is more popular than US. I understand USA federation picks places which are harder for opponents, but they need to show more ambition than 20,000 seaters for qualifiers.


Unfortunately the USSF sets ticket prices so expensive (pretty sure by far the highest in the world) that it'd be very difficult to sell out an NFL stadium like the September match in Nashville. It's incredibly frustrating.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Ramanaramana said:


> 48,000 and 44,000….apparently 50,000 sold but weather prevented such turnout….both in Edmonton this week for Canada’s wins over Costa Rica and Mexico. I reckon when both teams are doing well, which in Canada’s case hasn’t been ever maybe, Canadian team is more popular than US.


Canada isn't drawing 48,000 in those elements if the team wasn't that good. They're enjoying (rightfully) their brightest run in the qualification stages in some time, with arguably their strongest ever team. Not trying to disparage their national team spirit, just providing some context.



> I understand USA federation picks places which are harder for opponents, but they need to show more ambition than 20,000 seaters for qualifiers.


They're striking a balance between getting the most fans overall and getting the most US fans for home field advantage, and coming on the heels of missing the last WC it was critical this time around that they emphasize winning over matchday gate receipts. By choosing smaller venues for key games and giving registered US fans first dibs they increase the odds of a pro-US crowd, which helps the appeal of broadcast partners looking for an energized setting and can go a long way to growing more earnest US fans. 

Much like what the MLS clubs are doing, the USMNT is trying to build that grass-roots support that is truly die-hard. Casual US fans are vested but this is really the only sport where the national team has such regular schedules. Your typical fans of baseball or the NFL aren't used to this.


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461427295122558985


----------



## Ramanaramana

I read Premier League finalised new US deal with NBC for $2.7 billion over 6 years...$433m per year, which wasn't even highest offer apparently.

I hope MLS can reduce the disparity to less than 2x. They need a statement deal.


----------



## slipperydog

*USL Des Moines*

The Iowa Soccer Development Foundation (ISDF) is pleased to announce that demolition of all buildings on the Dico Superfund site is complete, marking the first activity here in more than three decades. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the city of Des Moines began demolition of the site in June 2021 to remove the dilapidated buildings and prepare the area for redevelopment. Find a link to timelapse video footage of the Dico site demolition here or view it on Facebook.

Earlier this year, the city of Des Moines took ownership of the Dico site and began working with the EPA in June to ensure a safe demolition of the building structures and site preparation of the surrounding land. Once the ISDF has secured the remaining corporate and private funds necessary for the project, construction can begin. The 6,000+ seat multi-use stadium will host Iowa’s first professional USL Championship soccer team, and the surrounding four-acre plaza will be used for community events, festivals and activities. While the city of Des Moines will retain ownership of the land, the ISDF will own the stadium and Krause+ will serve as lead developer and manage the construction of the project.

With more than $20.8 million in private funding raised to date, the ISDF continues to work toward its goal of $25 million. Construction of the Pro Iowa Stadium and Global Plaza is anticipated to begin in 2022.









Demolition of Dico Superfund site concludes - USL Pro Iowa







www.uslproiowa.com


----------



## nyrmetros

Very interesting with the Canadian National Team crowds..


----------



## JYDA

On the Edmonton crowds, the tickets were priced very reasonably. Tickets ranged from 20 to 50 dollars with package discounts for those buying both games. The homecoming of Alphonso Davies played as much a role as the importance of the games in driving demand. He grew up in Edmonton and still spends the offseason there where his parents still live. His dad still works the same job he had before his son became a star. It was a massive deal for him to play there and was a national news story.

This was one of the main ticket promotion videos.


----------



## Ramanaramana

The media may have played on that story, but I can never buy such things play a part in boosting attendance to any great extent.

The best Canadian team ever with a real chance to qualify for first time in however long explains everything.


----------



## The Game Is Up

U.S. men's national soccer team to play Feb. 2 World Cup qualifier at Allianz Field


The U.S. team's February game will be its second visit for St. Paul stadium.




www.startribune.com













Allianz Field In St. Paul To Host US Men's Soccer Team World Cup Qualifier -- In February


A critical World Cup qualifier will be hosted by Allianz Field in St. Paul during one of Minnesota's coldest months.




minnesota.cbslocal.com


----------



## bd popeye

St Paul MN???!!! Humm?? The average temperature in February is;

Hi temp. 29°F or -1.6C 
Low Temp 11°F or -11.6C

A little nippy. I live in Iowa. I would not bother me..well maybe a little..


----------



## slipperydog

bd popeye said:


> St Paul MN???!!! Humm?? The average temperature in February is;
> 
> Hi temp. 29°F or -1.6C
> Low Temp 11°F or -11.6C
> 
> A little nippy. I live in Iowa. I would not bother me..well maybe a little..


They are less concerned about the comfort of the fans than they are about the opponents, who are from Central America.


----------



## nyrmetros

Shame Red Bull Arena didn't get a qualifier.


----------



## The Game Is Up

Well, the venue for the game against Panama has yet to be selected, so there's still hope.


----------



## nyrmetros

The Game Is Up said:


> Well, the venue for the game against Panama has yet to be selected, so there's still hope.


Fingers crossed.


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466819356810260481


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466819356810260481


Well, that's... odd and unfortunate. It shouldn't take a matter of months to redo the field. You'd think the team would be better off financially helping the school system pay to do the renovation earlier and then keep their season intact to generate revenues. Alas.


----------



## chicagobuildingnerd1833

bd popeye said:


> St Paul MN???!!! Humm?? The average temperature in February is;
> 
> Hi temp. 29°F or -1.6C
> Low Temp 11°F or -11.6C
> 
> A little nippy. I live in Iowa. I would not bother me..well maybe a little..


Same here for someone in Illinois, I would not enjoy it but at least I would be used to those types of temperatures. Kind of feel bad for the USMNT players from warmer states who have to play for their country at home in such temperatures. Understand why they chose St Paul, MN as at least a few USMNT players are used to this weather but none of the Hondurans are used to this weather.


----------



## chicagobuildingnerd1833

nyrmetros said:


> Shame Red Bull Arena didn't get a qualifier.





The Game Is Up said:


> Well, the venue for the game against Panama has yet to be selected, so there's still hope.


It is unlikely Red Bull Arena will get a qualifier as last time it happened it was not a "pro-US" crowd. There is no doubt in the near future that Red Bull Arena and/or nearby Metlife Stadium will host games in the Gold Cup and the latter stadium will more than likely host games in the 2026 World Cup.


----------



## chicagobuildingnerd1833

chicagobuildingnerd1833 said:


> It is unlikely Red Bull Arena will get a qualifier as last time it happened it was not a "pro-US" crowd. There is no doubt in the near future that Red Bull Arena and/or nearby Metlife Stadium will host games in the Gold Cup and the latter stadium will more than likely host games in the 2026 World Cup.











USMNT crave "pro-US crowd" for World Cup qualifier vs. Mexico | MLSSoccer.com


CINCINNATI – It’s not news that the US men’s national team picks venues and distributes tickets for their home World Cup qualifying matches with great care.




www.mlssoccer.com


----------



## RMB2007

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1468296719028862984


----------



## RMB2007

Garber said talks are still ongoing and include not only Las Vegas, but Phoenix and San Diego. He said the city they choose should be announced within the next 10 months.

“We’re making progress as has been announced, or as has been leaked in Las Vegas,” Garber said. “We’re excited about the market as are all the other leagues here in North America.”

A group earlier this year headed by billionaire businessmen Wes Edens and Nassef Sawris filed to trademark Las Vegas Villains, tied to a professional soccer club. Garber said they’re working with Edens on the Las Vegas possibility.

Garber declined to detail specifics about what a Las Vegas MLS stadium could include, but said he envisions they could model it on what the Raiders built.

“In Las Vegas you could conceivably see a soccer stadium that looks like a mini version of Allegiant (Stadium),” Garber said.









Las Vegas front-runner for new soccer team, MLS commish says


During his State of the League address on Tuesday, Don Garber simply said “yes” when asked if Las Vegas was in the lead to be the league’s next team.




www.reviewjournal.com


----------



## BoulderGrad

32 team MLS:

West:
Vancouver
Seattle
Portland
San Jose
LAG
LAFC
Vegas
Phoenix

Central:
RSL
Colorado
Dallas
Houston
Austin
Saint Louis
KC
Minnesota

North East:
Chicago
Detroit
Columbus
Cincy
Nasville
Toronto
Montreal
New England

Atlantic:
Miami
Orlando
Atlanta
Charlotte
DC
Philly
NYRB
NYCFC


----------



## chicagobuildingnerd1833

RMB2007 said:


> Garber said talks are still ongoing and include not only Las Vegas, but Phoenix and San Diego. He said the city they choose should be announced within the next 10 months.
> 
> “We’re making progress as has been announced, or as has been leaked in Las Vegas,” Garber said. “We’re excited about the market as are all the other leagues here in North America.”
> 
> A group earlier this year headed by billionaire businessmen Wes Edens and Nassef Sawris filed to trademark Las Vegas Villains, tied to a professional soccer club. Garber said they’re working with Edens on the Las Vegas possibility.
> 
> Garber declined to detail specifics about what a Las Vegas MLS stadium could include, but said he envisions they could model it on what the Raiders built.
> 
> “In Las Vegas you could conceivably see a soccer stadium that looks like a mini version of Allegiant (Stadium),” Garber said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Las Vegas front-runner for new soccer team, MLS commish says
> 
> 
> During his State of the League address on Tuesday, Don Garber simply said “yes” when asked if Las Vegas was in the lead to be the league’s next team.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.reviewjournal.com


----------



## chicagobuildingnerd1833

chicagobuildingnerd1833 said:


> View attachment 2468041


In terms of TV market size Phoenix would be the largest at #11. However if a team were in Phoenix, there would likely be supported across the state. Plus the Coyotes NHL team is in real danger of being relocated and an MLS team could easily fill in their slot and play alongside the Suns, Cardinals and Diamondbacks. San Diego is next at #27. The problem with San Diego is a potential MLS team would likely only be popular in the immediate San Diego area and would be playing at the same time of year as the city's only other major team, the MLB's Padres. Although my doubts of San Diego could be proven wrong if said potential MLS team all of the sudden becomes one of the most popular teams in the league. Lastly is Las Vegas at #40. Despite its small size, Las Vegas is home to both the well supported Golden Knights of the NHL and the historic Raiders NFL team. I personally think that Las Vegas has potential but the two main things to help the Sin City's cause is hope Phoenix does not get an MLS team as that would mean the Las Vegas team would definitely have less fans due to the close proximity of the TV markets as well as hope Las Vegas does not get an MLB team as that league plays at the same time of year as MLS


----------



## BoulderGrad

chicagobuildingnerd1833 said:


> In terms of TV market size Phoenix would be the largest at #11. However if a team were in Phoenix, there would likely be supported across the state. Plus the Coyotes NHL team is in real danger of being relocated and an MLS team could easily fill in their slot and play alongside the Suns, Cardinals and Diamondbacks. San Diego is next at #27. The problem with San Diego is a potential MLS team would likely only be popular in the immediate San Diego area and would be playing at the same time of year as the city's only other major team, the MLB's Padres. Although my doubts of San Diego could be proven wrong if said potential MLS team all of the sudden becomes one of the most popular teams in the league. Lastly is Las Vegas at #40. Despite its small size, Las Vegas is home to both the well supported Golden Knights of the NHL and the historic Raiders NFL team. I personally think that Las Vegas has potential but the two main things to help the Sin City's cause is hope Phoenix does not get an MLS team as that would mean the Las Vegas team would definitely have less fans due to the close proximity of the TV markets as well as hope Las Vegas does not get an MLB team as that league plays at the same time of year as MLS


Even if the Coyotes stay put, the overlap between MLS and NHL is limited. Dunno that they'd effect each other much.

Vegas is a weird animal in the entertainment world. It punches well above its weight in terms of the events it can attract and the support available to its teams. But I suppose there is a limit to that. Is Vegas an "Every team in the big 5" kind of market? I guess we'll see...


----------



## chicagobuildingnerd1833

BoulderGrad said:


> Even if the Coyotes stay put, the overlap between MLS and NHL is limited. Dunno that they'd effect each other much.
> 
> Vegas is a weird animal in the entertainment world. It punches well above its weight in terms of the events it can attract and the support available to its teams. But I suppose there is a limit to that. Is Vegas an "Every team in the big 5" kind of market? I guess we'll see...


You are right about the Coyotes and the possible Phoenix MLS team not overlapping. I only suggested that because four major teams seems like a good number (after all Atlanta United proved that Atlanta could support four teams after they took the place of the Thrashers NHL team). As for Las Vegas, you are right, it is a "weird animal." All of its largest skyscrapers are themed casino resorts and not the usual art deco or blocky office buildings in most major cities. All of its suburban growth is relatively recent compared to major cities. And another thing that cannot be overlooked is that Las Vegas is very much a global city despite having a smaller TV market than more regional cities like Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, Kansas City or Milwaukee. And a case can be made due to the city's worldwide fame, Las Vegas can be home to more major sports teams than other markets its size.


----------



## pesto

Las Vegas Looks Like Frontrunner For Major League Soccer Expansion Franchise


MLS commissioner Don Garber says that the league is "very bullish about the market" and that "we'll continue to plow forward" regarding an expansion franchise in Sin City. He confirmed the league's 30th team won't begin play in 2023.




www.forbes.com





MLS hints that the leading candidates for expansion are Las Vegas, Las Vegas and Las Vegas. Oh, did I mention Las Vegas?


----------



## GunnerJacket

chicagobuildingnerd1833 said:


> View attachment 2468041


The key takeaways here are that, for now at least, market-size is but one factor provided it's at least big enough. Arguably more important to MLS are the wealth and commitment of the ownership and whether or not the market is trending in the socio-demographic indicators prized by the league. (Namely age, wealth, and diversity)


----------



## RMB2007

A multimillion-dollar entertainment sports park is in the works for Middle Tennessee.

City leaders announced Thursday the Legacy Sport Park will be nestled on an expansive site in Murfreesboro. The state-of-the-art family park will create opportunity for athletes of all ages and levels of proficiency to hone their skills.









$350M state-of-the-art entertainment sports park planned for development in Murfreesboro


A multimillion-dollar entertainment sports park is in the works for Middle Tennessee. City leaders announced Thursday the Legacy Sport Park will be nestled on an expansive site in Murfreesboro. The state-of-the-art family park will create opportunity for athletes of all ages and levels of...




fox17.com


----------



## PHofKS

You beat me to it...


RMB2007 said:


> A multimillion-dollar entertainment sports park is in the works for Middle Tennessee.
> 
> City leaders announced Thursday the Legacy Sport Park will be nestled on an expansive site in Murfreesboro. The state-of-the-art family park will create opportunity for athletes of all ages and levels of proficiency to hone their skills.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> $350M state-of-the-art entertainment sports park planned for development in Murfreesboro
> 
> 
> A multimillion-dollar entertainment sports park is in the works for Middle Tennessee. City leaders announced Thursday the Legacy Sport Park will be nestled on an expansive site in Murfreesboro. The state-of-the-art family park will create opportunity for athletes of all ages and levels of...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fox17.com


This is part of a $350 million privately funded sports park development. Not soccer related, but a 6,000 seat hockey arena will be included.

My slides,



































Murfreesboro has roughly, 153,000 population and 330,000 in the county. Murfreesboro at one point a few years ago was the second fastest growing city over 100,000 population in the nation. They should be able to support this facility easily. I wonder what they might have in mind for 'minor league' hockey or soccer.


----------



## BoulderGrad

PHofKS said:


> This is part of a $350 million privately funded sports park development. Not soccer related but a 6,000 seat hockey arena will be included.
> 
> Murfreesboro has roughly, 153,000 population and 330,000 in the county. Murfreesboro at one point a few years ago was the second fastest growing city over 100,000 population in the nation. They should be able to support this facility easily. I wonder what they might have in mind for 'minor league' hockey or soccer.


Lots of options for the hockey arena. 6k seats is barely good enough for AHL, pretty solid for ECHL and SPHL. Predators affiliates are currently in Milwaukee and Estero FL, so could see them wanting either to be closer to home. Tho AHL is already at 32 teams, so they're likely done expanding. ECHL is only at 27, so plenty of room for them to grow. SPHL is an independent league, and also has plenty of room to grow, and a number of teams close to Nashville, so that would be a great fit too without having to rely on the Predators.

As for soccer (to get back on topic), Nashville SC is planning a team in the MLS Next Pro league, but no word on where they'd play yet. Murfressboro is just down the road from their training center in Antioch. A shiny new 5k-10k seat stadium would serve them well.


----------



## RMB2007

MLS Commissioner Don Garber says during MLS Cup halftime that 30th team will be announced in Q1 of 2022. Garber: “Vegas is the frontrunner. We’re looking at building a stadium right off the strip.”



https://twitter.com/markjburns88


----------



## chicagobuildingnerd1833

I have been hearing news regarding that Las Vegas is going to be the expansion team. I would also like to point out the current situation in Montreal looks horrible and it can be possible that team could relocate. If that happens, I sure hope Montreal immediately gets a replacement team in the Canadian Premier League. For more information, watch this video.


----------



## pesto

chicagobuildingnerd1833 said:


> I have been hearing news regarding that Las Vegas is going to be the expansion team. I would also like to point out the current situation in Montreal looks horrible and it can be possible that team could relocate. If that happens, I sure hope Montreal immediately gets a replacement team in the Canadian Premier League. For more information, watch this video.


Moving from MLS to the Canadian league doesn't sound like a step upward. Sounds more like the old days of "Vive le Quebec Libre". As some said back then, "out of Canada and into the 3rd world". .


----------



## GreenHornet553

chicagobuildingnerd1833 said:


> I have been hearing news regarding that Las Vegas is going to be the expansion team. I would also like to point out the current situation in Montreal looks horrible and it can be possible that team could relocate. If that happens, I sure hope Montreal immediately gets a replacement team in the Canadian Premier League. For more information, watch this video.


Yeah it's the beginning of the end for the former Montreal Impact. I see Saputo's team going south of the border and a new ownership groups creating a team in Montreal for the Canadian Premier League that won't treat the fans like dirt.


----------



## pesto

https://www.sacbee.com/sports/article256443136.html

Big day for MLS if they get Las Vegas AND lose Sacramento. That gets one world entertainment capital and leaves open a chance for SF as another world city, if the Bay Area can support two teams.

Nothing against the Sharks; they are popular locally. But they are in the middle of the pack in value. By contrast, the SF-named teams (Niners and Giants) are near the top in value in their leagues and the Warriors made a point of moving to SF so as to jolt their value.


----------



## pesto

GreenHornet553 said:


> Yeah it's the beginning of the end for the former Montreal Impact. I see Saputo's team going south of the border and a new ownership groups creating a team in Montreal for the Canadian Premier League that won't treat the fans like dirt.


A shame for those of us who remember when Montreal was Canada's leading center and a great and beautiful world city. Then along came Levesque and free Quebec and the slow-motion economic suicide of demanding the maintenance of a French-based culture and indifference to the flight of businesses and investors.


----------



## PHofKS

BoulderGrad said:


> ........
> As for soccer (to get back on topic), Nashville SC is planning a team in the MLS Next Pro league, but no word on where they'd play yet. Murfressboro is just down the road from their training center in Antioch. A shiny new 5k-10k seat stadium would serve them well.


Regarding a 'possible' soccer tennant for the proposed Murfreesboro stadium, there's this sudden announcement; A USL Women's Team and a Men's USL2 team to the 'Greater Nashville' area.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1470533800597889024
From a link on Twitter;


> Tennessee SC will compete in League Two’s Deep South Division during the 2022 season. In joining League Two, the club will establish a tried and tested pathway to the men’s professional realm for players both at the elite collegiate level and top academy level.


This seems too quick to occupy the Murfreesboro proposal, but maybe a temporary location can be arranged until this or even another stadium can be built.

The Murfreesboro proposal (as described in more detail above);


----------



## PHofKS

Regarding the economics of building these large sports complexes, HBO sports has a very informative story;


----------



## chicagobuildingnerd1833

GreenHornet553 said:


> Yeah it's the beginning of the end for the former Montreal Impact. I see Saputo's team going south of the border and a new ownership groups creating a team in Montreal for the Canadian Premier League that won't treat the fans like dirt.


At this point I just hope Montrealers will have a team called the Impact and that Joey Saputo sells CF Montreal. Not even a fan of the team and this situation makes me sad. I would prefer Montreal downgrading to the CPL than for this current situation to drag on even further.


----------



## Ramanaramana

If Montreal does move I reckon it's a good thing as one of the things that bothers me about MLS is that a 32 team league will leave at least one big city without a team if Las Vegas gets in and rumours about San Diego come to fruition. This way we can see Phoenix, San Diego, Las Vegas and Detroit all eventually join MLS, which would be great.

Like NBA and MLB I reckon only Toronto really adds something to MLS. Losing Montreal and Vancouver, and having them set up CPL teams instead, is a better outcome for everyone.

And then a more robust North American competition can come into play that brings everyone together, such as the Leagues Cup taking on greater prominence as it's already slated to, or Champs League even though MLS/LigaMX seem to be pushing on making the Leagues Cup the future.


----------



## slipperydog

Ramanaramana said:


> If Montreal does move I reckon it's a good thing as one of the things that bothers me about MLS is that a 32 team league will leave at least one big city without a team if Las Vegas gets in and rumours about San Diego come to fruition. This way we can see Phoenix, San Diego, Las Vegas and Detroit all eventually join MLS, which would be great.
> 
> Like NBA and MLB I reckon only Toronto really adds something to MLS. Losing Montreal and Vancouver, and having them set up CPL teams instead, is a better outcome for everyone.
> 
> And then a more robust North American competition can come into play that brings everyone together, such as the Leagues Cup taking on greater prominence as it's already slated to, or Champs League even though MLS/LigaMX seem to be pushing on making the Leagues Cup the future.


The Detroit fans seem to be very anti-establishment and apparently the USL made concessions with regards to intellectual property in order to admit them. I'm not sure how interested they are in joining MLS and losing their independence. I could see the Detroit fans hanging on to the very end and it could get ugly if MLS proposed a replacement franchise there. Also, when you're talking about international branding, Detroit doesn't really move the needle, so I'm not sure how active MLS would be in pursuing that potential headache anyway.

My personal preference would be for the league to stick with 30 by admitting Vegas and have the Saputos sell their franchise rights to the Phoenix group.


----------



## chicagobuildingnerd1833

slipperydog said:


> The Detroit fans seem to be very anti-establishment and apparently the USL made concessions with regards to intellectual property in order to admit them. I'm not sure how interested they are in joining MLS and losing their independence. I could see the Detroit fans hanging on to the very end and it could get ugly if MLS proposed a replacement franchise there. Also, when you're talking about international branding, Detroit doesn't really move the needle, so I'm not sure how active MLS would be in pursuing that potential headache anyway.
> 
> My personal preference would be for the league to stick with 30 by admitting Vegas and have the Saputos sell their franchise rights to the Phoenix group.


I agree. Las Vegas makes the most sense as that is what the league wants. I could easily see Phoenix get a team if Montreal's moves. Detroit City ultras always tend to be anti establishment so even having them in the USLC might be a little bit against what they stand for. Although the average DCFC non ultra fan is probably thrilled they are playing at a higher level after killing everyone in NISA. But to be fair Oakland Roots (who have a similarly anti establishment fan base as DCFC) moved from NISA to the USLC and they are doing all right.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Detroit City Ultras are a bit insufferable. I'm sure if Gilbert and the league make nice again and a team ends up in Detroit, I'm sure most of them will hop on board.


----------



## Ramanaramana

slipperydog said:


> I could see the Detroit fans hanging on to the very end and it could get ugly if MLS proposed a replacement franchise there.





BoulderGrad said:


> Detroit City Ultras are a bit insufferable. I'm sure if Gilbert and the league make nice again and a team ends up in Detroit, I'm sure most of them will hop on board.


I know they've been around for longer, but if MLS went ahead and put a team in Detroit that wasn't Detroit City, wouldn't it look a bit like Austin or Atlanta? Both had teams drawing thousands like Detroit, which then ballooned to 20,000 and 40,000 when the MLS teams came in and effectively killed those other teams.

I suppose my point is is the draw of MLS itself much more important than the individual club in question? Or is Detroit a specific case that makes it an outlier?


----------



## chicagobuildingnerd1833

Ramanaramana said:


> I know they've been around for longer, but if MLS went ahead and put a team in Detroit that wasn't Detroit City, wouldn't it look a bit like Austin or Atlanta? Both had teams drawing thousands like Detroit, which then ballooned to 20,000 and 40,000 when the MLS teams came in and effectively killed those other teams.
> 
> I suppose my point is is the draw of MLS itself much more important than the individual club in question? Or is Detroit a specific case that makes it an outlier?


I think Detroit might be an outlier as DCFC and the identity of said club have already captured the imagination of the Motor City. I do not recall a club in Austin and Atlanta before their MLS clubs came into existence being anywhere near as popular as DCFC is today.


----------



## bd popeye

chicagobuildingnerd1833 said:


> Despite its small size, Las Vegas is home to both the well supported Golden Knights of the NHL and the historic Raiders NFL team


Small size? The Metro population of Las Vegas is 2.227 million (2018) The city of Las Vegas population is 642,000 as of 2020.



pesto said:


> MLS hints that the leading candidates for expansion are Las Vegas, Las Vegas and Las Vegas. Oh, did I mention Las Vegas?


Humm?!! Las Vegas!!


----------



## slipperydog

Ramanaramana said:


> I know they've been around for longer, but if MLS went ahead and put a team in Detroit that wasn't Detroit City, wouldn't it look a bit like Austin or Atlanta? Both had teams drawing thousands like Detroit, which then ballooned to 20,000 and 40,000 when the MLS teams came in and effectively killed those other teams.
> 
> I suppose my point is is the draw of MLS itself much more important than the individual club in question? Or is Detroit a specific case that makes it an outlier?


Yeah Austin and Atlanta had various iterations of smaller clubs, but nowhere near the following. DCFC fans are considered "part-owners", so they've established a very independent identity and built a strong level of success at the lower levels. They believe they are thriving as they are, and I don't think would take kindly to an autocratic "ownership group" hand-picked by MLS telling them how their club should be run.

Another thing that makes me skeptical is that Austin and Atlanta are booming cities that are exploding in growth, as opposed to Detroit. So to me, a lot would have to happen in terms of league interest, local ownership/stadium investors, and the fans willingness to embrace a more corporate setup.


----------



## ielag

chicagobuildingnerd1833 said:


> I agree. Las Vegas makes the most sense as that is what the league wants. I could easily see Phoenix get a team if Montreal's moves.


Phoenix has been awfully quiet outside of building a new modular stadium and training facility in the Southeast Phoenix. They added billionaire Alex Zheng to the ownership in early 2018, but it's fairly quiet on their end since.

San Diego has the new stadium being built, not a lot of competition, great demographics, and a market that does really well in TV ratings with MLS (for not having a team), USMNT/USWNT as well LigaMX. But they'll still need a billionaire.


----------



## Ramanaramana

ielag said:


> San Diego has the new stadium being built, not a lot of competition, great demographics, and a market that does really well in TV ratings with MLS (for not having a team), USMNT/USWNT as well LigaMX. But they'll still need a billionaire.


Is the owner a bigger issue than leasing the stadium? I thought MLS mostly avoided owners that don't control the stadium. Off the top of my head only Vancouver doesn't control the venue.


----------



## slipperydog

Ramanaramana said:


> Is the owner a bigger issue than leasing the stadium? I thought MLS mostly avoided owners that don't control the stadium. Off the top of my head only Vancouver doesn't control the venue.


I think you're right on this. MLS would highly prefer the owner to control the venue, as it gives the team more control over revenues (think of concerts and additional events) and the league more flexibility in terms of scheduling (see the nomadic NYCFC due to baseball playoffs).

San Diego is an attractive market, but the ownership is a question, as well as competition with Club Tijuana for dollars and interest from the locals. I also am not sure what the relationship is like between Burkle, who pulled out of Sacramento (he currently owns the new womens team in SD), and the league at this point. The Phoenix training facility is ready-made for MLS, so were an opening to arise, such as Montreal dropping down, I believe Phoenix would be in good shape to make the jump.


----------



## Sandro14

MLS still plans to have 32 teams in the future.


----------



## ielag

Ramanaramana said:


> Is the owner a bigger issue than leasing the stadium? I thought MLS mostly avoided owners that don't control the stadium. Off the top of my head only Vancouver doesn't control the venue.


San Diego State is spending billions on this entire project. I'm sure they would be willing to cut a good deal for some extra revenue. Especially since an MLS team let SDSU play in their stadium this season.


----------



## ielag

slipperydog said:


> San Diego is an attractive market, but the ownership is a question, as well as competition with Club Tijuana for dollars and interest from the locals.


This has always been way overblown. Tijuana isn't even the most popular LigaMX club in SD (that's always America and Chivas) and maybe a couple thousand people tops per match cross the border to attend.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Ramanaramana said:


> Is the owner a bigger issue than leasing the stadium? I thought MLS mostly avoided owners that don't control the stadium. Off the top of my head only Vancouver doesn't control the venue.


Largely correct. Financially MLS is still so reliant on gameday revenues that they need to, for all intents and purposes, control the receipts (tickets, advertising, etc) and the scheduling (to ensure max crowds) to make things work out. It's entirely possible that they could achieve this as a tenant in another's facility but the numbers would have to bear out.


----------



## Ramanaramana

GunnerJacket said:


> Largely correct. Financially MLS is still so reliant on gameday revenues that they need to, for all intents and purposes, control the receipts (tickets, advertising, etc) and the scheduling (to ensure max crowds) to make things work out. It's entirely possible that they could achieve this as a tenant in another's facility but the numbers would have to bear out.


Fixtures would conflict at the back end of the season, and since they wouldn't be primary tenant, it wouldn't be a good look.

It's curious with 29 and almost 30 teams that MLS would opt in for such a scenario. They can be pickier. I don't know why they'd accept any such proposal. With all due respect to San Diego, it's not exactly LA on the list of must haves. Struggling to see any major difference between it, Phoenix, Las Vegas, or Detroit, especially as California already has 3 teams. 

The Sacramento team was cool because it provided a direct derby for San Jose. San Diego doesn't really do that being in the south.


----------



## slipperydog

Ramanaramana said:


> The Sacramento team was cool because it provided a direct derby for San Jose. San Diego doesn't really do that being in the south.


Also, getting public funding for a stadium is out of the question (San Diego doesn't see it itself like Cleveland for example, where the city's identity is wrapped up in sports), so not only are you paying a franchise fee, but any potential San Diego owner would have to fund the stadium privately as well. Playing at SDSU might be a fine temporary solution, but it's hard to see MLS accepting it long term.


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484288993508442112


----------



## Ramanaramana

Interesting how often these clubs are using football stadiums in lower leagues to push through projects. I imagine their interest is in development as much as the club itself.


----------



## GunnerJacket

slipperydog said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484288993508442112


Impressive and ambitious proposal for League 1, but hope it works out for them. Disappointed it's in Mauldin, however. Greenville is an attractive and growing city, with various other attractions and decent size populace of young adults. Would love to have seen this land someplace closer to the urbanizing Reedy River corridor.



Ramanaramana said:


> Interesting how often these clubs are using football stadiums in lower leagues to push through projects. I imagine their interest is in development as much as the club itself.


That is a common practice here in the states, using some form of public attraction or amenity as the hook to get support for a broader development proposal.


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484525748413157386


----------



## RMB2007

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484546857762279424


----------



## GunnerJacket

Looks pretty sharp, and right next to Rupp Arena might prove a great spot. Good luck to them.


----------



## slipperydog

*Des Moines to begin play in new stadium in 2024*









United Soccer League Welcomes Pro Iowa to USL Championship


Team to play at Pro Iowa Stadium




www.uslchampionship.com


----------



## bd popeye

More info on Pro Iowa Stadium.









USL Pro Iowa Unveil Details, Initial Rendering of Transformative Stadium Project


Brand new USL Championship stadium set to anchor 65-Acre, $535 Million development project




www.uslsoccer.com






USL Pro Iowa and Krause Group are working with the city of Des Moines on plans for a professional soccer stadium site on an abandoned Superfund site south of Martin Luther King Parkway downtown. Capacity 6,300. (Screenshot of Iowa Economic Development Authority board meeting)

*DES MOINES, Iowa *– Pro Iowa, the campaign working to bring USL Championship soccer to Iowa, announced on Tuesday a new initiative in partnership with Krause+, the real estate development arm of Krause Group, and the City of Des Moines that would drive revitalization of areas in Downtown Des Moines. The group also released renderings of the centerpiece to the mixed-use development, a soccer-specific stadium that would become home to the Championship club surrounded by recreation, housing, commerce, and entertainment. 

Pro Iowa and its partners are seeking approval from the Iowa Economic Development Authority to establish a reinvestment district that would utilize the Iowa Reinvestment Act (IRA) for the redevelopment of the 65-acre site. Krause+, along with Sherman Associates, would lead development of areas included within the reinvestment district.


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1490782880909324288


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1486367588963786763


----------



## slipperydog

Tormenta Stadium will be under construction throughout 2022, but the USL League One, League Two and W League teams will compete at the new Optim Health System Field, located on Tormenta Way in Statesboro, Georgia, starting in March/April of 2022.

The east side of the stadium, which includes nearly 2,500 seats, will be available for fans to start the 2022 season. The west side of the stadium, which includes individual seating with seat backs, premium viewing suites, merchandise store, press box and more will be under construction throughout 2022.

















Frequently Asked Questions - South Georgia Tormenta FC


Tickets must be presented at the gate for entry. All sales are final; no refunds or exchanges. Tormenta FC reserves the right to change the date, location and time of […]




www.tormentafc.com


----------



## slipperydog

With the site breaking ground just a few weeks ago, the Downtown Spokane Stadium is going from concept to reality.

“Our earthwork and our preparation will go on through March and April, and then we’ll start to bring the building out of the ground in May. We’ll construct the buildings and fields until August or September of 2023,” Forsyth said.

The four-story stadium will serve as a home for all of Spokane’s public school football teams and a USL team.









Downtown Spokane Stadium construction underway with an eye toward the future


The Downtown Spokane Stadium project just broke ground a few weeks ago and will easily become the most high-tech outdoor stadium in the region.




www.krem.com


----------



## nyrmetros

The lack of roofs is disturbing.


----------



## ielag

nyrmetros said:


> The lack of roofs is disturbing.


Disturbing is a weird phrase for USL stadiums being built on shoestring budgets


----------



## GunnerJacket

Indeed. The first and foremost thing all these teams are doing is establishing a home venue that allows them to control scheduling and revenues. Niceties aren't high on their priority list until they've confirmed the market for their product.


----------



## ChrisN11

nyrmetros said:


> The lack of roofs is disturbing.


 For some reason, it appears to be traditional for stadiums in the US (with the exception of baseball venues) to have little or no cover. Even when the Soldier Field in Chicago was rebuilt a few years ago, roofs were not included.


----------



## slipperydog

Fort Worth eyed as home to USL Championship, S League teams - Soccer Stadium Digest


USL Championship's Austin Bold FC could be relocated to a new Fort Worth soccer stadium and complex, with a new USL S League team in the mix.




soccerstadiumdigest.com


----------



## chicagobuildingnerd1833

New stadium: Soccer venue was built in no time







stadiumdb.com


----------



## RoyDGB

slipperydog said:


> Fort Worth eyed as home to USL Championship, S League teams - Soccer Stadium Digest
> 
> 
> USL Championship's Austin Bold FC could be relocated to a new Fort Worth soccer stadium and complex, with a new USL S League team in the mix.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> soccerstadiumdigest.com


I wish Detroit City FC would build something like this. Can't stand that a team as popular as they have become are still playing in a damn high school stadium. Hopefully with the move to the USL, ownership will finally make a move and build a ss stadium in the city.


----------



## GunnerJacket

RoyDGB said:


> I wish Detroit City FC would build something like this. Can't stand that a team as popular as they have become are still playing in a damn high school stadium. Hopefully with the move to the USL, ownership will finally make a move and build a ss stadium in the city.


Methinks you should read up a bit on what Detroit City aspired to be - A distinctly counterculture club.


----------



## Ramanaramana

Yes, a counterculture club that has joined the ecosystem of the very thing they despise. Good going there guys. Now in enemy territory, there is no reason why they shouldn’t explore such ideas as Roy pointed out.


----------



## RoyDGB

Playing on plastic field turf with american football lines is anything but counterculture. It makes them look like a glorified amateur team.


----------



## chicagobuildingnerd1833

In my opinion along with Portland’s Providence Park, Detroit’s Keyworth Stadium is as historic as it gets in US soccer. They are sort of like the Wrigley, Fenway, Lambeau or MSG of that sport.


----------



## JJG

slipperydog said:


> Fort Worth eyed as home to USL Championship, S League teams - Soccer Stadium Digest
> 
> 
> USL Championship's Austin Bold FC could be relocated to a new Fort Worth soccer stadium and complex, with a new USL S League team in the mix.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> soccerstadiumdigest.com


Yeah, we're still waiting on what they want to do... (Farrington Field is STILL for sale, btw...)

If whoever owns this goes with splitting up the fields and facilities in two, hopefully a third option of building the stadium itself away from the academy fields and hopefully on a site in the core is considered.

The city has conducted a 10 minute survey.


----------



## JJG

Also... can we not get into the "why are there no roofs" bit again?


----------



## slipperydog

The addition of Las Vegas will put the league at 30 teams. Garber said this will be a good time for owners to catch their collective breaths before potentially moving to 32 teams. Phoenix and San Diego have been mentioned as future expansion markets, but they’ll need to wait until the league is ready to expand.

“We need to pause and have our 30 teams up and going. We can then decide if Major League Soccer is going to expand beyond 30 clubs. When we said we were going to have 28 teams, we never thought we’d go beyond that. As soccer becomes more popular, as more cities see opportunities with their fans and communities to host a first division MLS club, we have to process all of that and determine if MLS [will expand] in the future. There is no timetable for any decision on beyond 30 teams.”









Future MLS Expansion: February 2022 - Soccer Stadium Digest


With talks continuing over an MLS Las Vegas expansion team, Commissioner Don Garber say the league will take a pause on new teams for now.




soccerstadiumdigest.com


----------



## Mansa Musa

I think 34 is the sweet spot, I'd add one or two more canadian/mexican teams.


----------



## Ramanaramana

34 is unwieldy if you start to break it down into divisions. 

Then again, I used to think 32 teams was ideal because of how well it worked for formatting. I’ve been won over by the Swiss system, and think it’s something larger leagues that can’t do home and away should consider. 

I don’t believe MLS would consider Canada again, and Montreal may move. Mexico I don’t understand. Where would they go that isn’t already taken by LMX? Guadalajara has 2 teams, so does Monterrey, and Mex City has 3. Anywhere else in Mexico is a big downgrade on what you’d get in USA. And who would follow a league many Mexicans consider a step down from their own?


----------



## Sandro14

MLS needs new teams only in the US, not in mexico or canada. What's the reason behind the hypothetical move of montreal?


----------



## Ramanaramana

Sandro14 said:


> MLS needs new teams only in the US, not in mexico or canada. What's the reason behind the hypothetical move of montreal?


The owner wanting to move team. It's been rumoured, but who knows, we'll see.


----------



## chicagobuildingnerd1833

Sandro14 said:


> MLS needs new teams only in the US, not in mexico or canada. What's the reason behind the hypothetical move of montreal?


The owner of the Montreal team could care less what the fans say, he is keeping the moniker "CF Montreal" despite all the main supporters groups demanding him to bring back "Montreal Impact." The supporters could possibly boycott their team like the Blackpool FC fans did when they had owners that were seemingly indifferent about the team. The boycott worked for Blackpool as they got new owners that invested more in the team. The only difference is Blackpool play in the English football/soccer league pyramid and had things got even more desperate for Blackpool, a phoenix club could have been created and because of that teams never relocate with one exception but the old location of that team immediately got a phoenix club (in case you are wondering I was talking about Wimbledon and MK Dons). However since MLS is a closed off top flight with no promotion and relegation to and from it, a Blackpool like boycott for Montreal could see the team sold to someone wanting to move the team somewhere else. I remember when the Columbus Crew nearly relocated to Austin but a lot of legal battles stopped them from doing that. I do not know who plans on buying CF Montreal if the owner sells due to mass money loss if the fans boycott. I hope this clears things up. By the way MLS and Liga MX created the Leagues Cup for teams in all three countries you mentioned so MLS getting teams currently in Liga MX is very unlikely.


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1499845710895665154


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504225447906742277


----------



## chicagobuildingnerd1833

slipperydog said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504225447906742277


Very cool. I love seeing old stadiums being renovated and repurposed. Providence Park and Keyworth Stadium are like my two favorite soccer specific stadiums in the US because of how much they have evolved to get to their current state.


----------



## nyrmetros

ielag said:


> Disturbing is a weird phrase for USL stadiums being built on shoestring budgets


Many stadiums in Europe were built on tight budgets but included roofs over the stands.


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507365269408292868


----------



## Mansa Musa

Ramanaramana said:


> 34 is unwieldy if you start to break it down into divisions.
> 
> Then again, I used to think 32 teams was ideal because of how well it worked for formatting. I’ve been won over by the Swiss system, and think it’s something larger leagues that can’t do home and away should consider.
> 
> I don’t believe MLS would consider Canada again, and Montreal may move. Mexico I don’t understand. Where would they go that isn’t already taken by LMX? Guadalajara has 2 teams, so does Monterrey, and Mex City has 3. Anywhere else in Mexico is a big downgrade on what you’d get in USA. And who would follow a league many Mexicans consider a step down from their own?


Formatting I don't care much of, I'm just going by demand. The US has about 3-4x more people than most large European countries while they typically have 18-20 teams in their primary league. While soccer may not be as central to the culture of the US currently it soon will be in the big 3, so I believe 34 is a great target.


----------



## nyrmetros

Word on the block is that the atmosphere at Stadium Azteca last night was that of MLS 1.0


----------



## chicagobuildingnerd1833

nyrmetros said:


> Word on the block is that the atmosphere at Stadium Azteca last night was that of MLS 1.0


I will take an early MLS atmosphere over a Queretaro atmosphere any day of the week. Mexico is all good for co-hosting in every way except for how many of their stadiums FIFA picks.


----------



## chicagobuildingnerd1833

Looks


slipperydog said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507365269408292868


Looks like Toronto is carrying Canada for 2026. They have the stadium, hotels and soon a world class training camp. If only they could solve the Edmonton-Vancouver dilemma so Canada could have at least two quality picks in the running.


----------



## GunnerJacket

nyrmetros said:


> Word on the block is that the atmosphere at Stadium Azteca last night was that of MLS 1.0


The Federation limited the number of people for the event.

_"El Tri will be playing before a limited crowd of about 47,000, a little more than half the stadium’s listed capacity, robbing it of some of its homefield advantage. Capacity was limited because Mexico was implementing a FAN ID system in the wake of FIFA sanctions leveled over fans’ repeated use of an anti-gay slur." _


----------



## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1507482217332846592


----------



## chicagobuildingnerd1833

GunnerJacket said:


> The Federation limited the number of people for the event.
> 
> _"El Tri will be playing before a limited crowd of about 47,000, a little more than half the stadium’s listed capacity, robbing it of some of its homefield advantage. Capacity was limited because Mexico was implementing a FAN ID system in the wake of FIFA sanctions leveled over fans’ repeated use of an anti-gay slur." _


Wonder if something similar to the fan ID thing is at the World Cup. Also, I got a little off track and I will try to focus on the original topic of this thread.


----------



## slipperydog

Today, Republic FC Owner and Chairman Kevin Nagle announced a new vision for a Railyards Stadium to create a community asset that will help Sacramento accelerate its recovery from the pandemic and provide a new downtown home for sports and entertainment. As part of today’s announcement, the club released a preliminary rendering of the new stadium concept.

“We want to build a world-class soccer stadium in The Railyards, and to begin the next decade of Republic FC,” said Republic FC Owner and CEO Kevin Nagle. “We’re ready with a new vision that allows us to take our destiny into our own hands, and to create a community asset that will grow with the team and city.”

The new vision for a world-class facility will:

Build a 12,000-15,000 seat Downtown facility that will serve as a community asset, meeting the needs of the city, league and community on an accelerated timeline,
Expand the city’s sports and entertainment calendar with potential events like,
marquee soccer matches with international competitions and global clubs,
a diverse array of sporting events – rugby, lacrosse, college sports and more,
outdoor concerts, festivals and shows.

Be able to transform with the city, team, and league and expand up to 20,000+ seats due to a futureproof plan,
Once again spark an era of growth by creating more opportunities to showcase Sacramento and bring people Downtown.






Republic FC Prepares New Vision for Downtown Stadium to Ignite a New Era of Development in Sacramento - Sacramento Republic FC


Sacramento, Calif. – Today, Republic FC Owner and Chairman Kevin Nagle announced a new vision for a Railyards Stadium to create a community asset that will help Sacramento accelerate its […]




www.sacrepublicfc.com


----------



## BoulderGrad

So now we've reached the "all the way dead" instead of just the "mostly dead" phase of MLS to Sacramento. Will be nice for the USL club tho.


----------



## pesto

BoulderGrad said:


> So now we've reached the "all the way dead" instead of just the "mostly dead" phase of MLS to Sacramento. Will be nice for the USL club tho.


Yes. it looks like MLS is at least not so inept as to be interested in Sactown. Hopefully the MLS gets its act together, especially since new US and Asian ownership in Europe will start bringing those clubs into 21st century media, marketing and PR approaches.


----------



## slipperydog

pesto said:


> Yes. it looks like MLS is at least not so inept as to be interested in Sactown. Hopefully the MLS gets its act together, especially since new US and Asian ownership in Europe will start bringing those clubs into 21st century media, marketing and PR approaches.


Not that I think MLS needs to expand, but with Las Vegas taking Sacramento's spot essentially a foregone conclusion now, you gotta think San Diego or Phoenix would be the frontrunners were the league to go beyond 30.


----------



## BoulderGrad

slipperydog said:


> Not that I think MLS needs to expand, but with Las Vegas taking Sacramento's spot essentially a foregone conclusion now, you gotta think San Diego or Phoenix would be the frontrunners were the league to go beyond 30.


32 seems to be the stopping point for the big leagues right now.

San Diego has no prospects for a stadium (They don't have the sweetheart deal at SDSU's new stadium, so that's a non starter). My money's on Detroit and Phoenix.


----------



## slipperydog

BoulderGrad said:


> 32 seems to be the stopping point for the big leagues right now.
> 
> San Diego has no prospects for a stadium (They don't have the sweetheart deal at SDSU's new stadium, so that's a non starter). My money's on Detroit and Phoenix.


The upper midwest/Detroit is not a place MLS should be investing in if you are thinking global. Burkle already owns the NWSL team in San Diego and was planning to build a stadium in Sacramento. So if MLS wants to expand and shows interest in San Diego (which routinely is among the top tv markets for soccer), I wouldn't be surprised if he found the land and money to build a stadium.


----------



## RMB2007

If they win the competition for the new arena in San Diego, Midway Village also put forward plans for a 20,000 soccer stadium in San Diego.










Our plan extends beyond the 49-acre Sports Arena site and includes the adjacent 17-acre site directly to the northwest. Here is where we propose locating a new privately financed permanent soccer-specific stadium with approximately 20,000 seats and additional housing, including affordable housing.






Midway Village







midwayvillageplus.com


----------



## RMB2007

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1510029242276274180


----------



## nyrmetros

San Diego would be mega for the MLS. What are the stadium prospects there?


----------



## bd popeye

Snapdragon Stadium is under construction. It will open September 3rd 2022. Capacity 35,000.






Snapdragon Stadium


San Diego State Snapdragon Stadium




snapdragonstadium.com










Snapdragon Stadium







missionvalley.sdsu.edu













SAN DIEGO - Snapdragon Stadium (35,000)


San Diego State University has hired Populous to create a conceptual plan for a new SDSU football stadium. However there are several current roadblocks, such as beating out the SoccerCity Initiative in the ballots in either June or November 2018...




www.skyscrapercity.com





It is purpose built by San Diego State University for NCAA college football, concerts, soccer and other community events..

From wiki;

*Snapdragon Stadium*, known during its planning and early construction phases as *Aztec Stadium*, is an under-construction American football stadium in San Diego, California on the campus of San Diego State University at SDSU Mission Valley, a 166-acre (67 ha) non-contiguous expansion parcel of the university campus. The 35,000-seat stadium will serve as the home of the San Diego State Aztecs football team, which represents San Diego State University in collegiate football (NCAA). It will also be the home of the San Diego Wave FC of the National Women's Soccer League (NWSL), and the San Diego Legion of Major League Rugby (MLR). Snapdragon Stadium broke ground on August 17, 2020 and is scheduled to open on September 3, 2022 for the Aztecs' season opener versus the Arizona Wildcats.

Snapdragon Stadium is being built at the site of San Diego Stadium, which had been the home of the school's football program since the stadium opened in 1967.


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## nyrmetros

So it's a multi use rectangle sport stadium?


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## nyrmetros

So which stadium is now the largest soccer stadium in the 13 colonies?


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## slipperydog

Ramanaramana said:


> When was the last time an MLS team came into the league which wasn't owned by the person or people who also owned/operated the stadium? Having just had a glance, looks like it's Vancouver in 2011. 13 teams have entered the league since the last time that happened.
> 
> For me there is no MLS-ready stadium as it won't be owned/operated by any MLS team in San Diego. How do they overcome that?
> 
> Adding a team that doesn't operate the stadium and who are secondary citizens when the MLS and CFB seasons overlap is a headscratcher. No semblance of roof either, which will be fun in summer.
> 
> Has nothing been learnt from New York? Have the benefits of ownership and calling the shots on scheduling all across the league recently from LA to Austin to Minnesota been forgotten?
> 
> Even if Snapdragon is presented as a temporary solution.....which is wishful thinking probably......it all still seems unnecessarily risky. I've heard in the past that St Louis and San Diego have good support for the game. But where St Louis has done it right, this feels like a step backwards.


It's a little surprising, but it's clearly the league taking into account a combination of factors (including the market), so not a one size fits all. At least college football only plays once a week, and the pitch conversion is more straightforward than a soccer team being a secondary tenant in a baseball park. Summer home matches would be best played at night, when the temperature in SD drops significantly.


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## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587837184370933765


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## ielag

Ramanaramana said:


> When was the last time an MLS team came into the league which wasn't owned by the person or people who also owned/operated the stadium? Having just had a glance, looks like it's Vancouver in 2011. 13 teams have entered the league since the last time that happened.
> 
> For me there is no MLS-ready stadium as it won't be owned/operated by any MLS team in San Diego. How do they overcome that?
> 
> Adding a team that doesn't operate the stadium and who are secondary citizens when the MLS and CFB seasons overlap is a headscratcher. No semblance of roof either, which will be fun in summer.
> 
> Has nothing been learnt from New York? Have the benefits of ownership and calling the shots on scheduling all across the league recently from LA to Austin to Minnesota been forgotten?
> 
> Even if Snapdragon is presented as a temporary solution.....which is wishful thinking probably......it all still seems unnecessarily risky. I've heard in the past that St Louis and San Diego have good support for the game. But where St Louis has done it right, this feels like a step backwards.


San Diego in the summer is probably the best weather city in the U.S. and every single MLS match on Saturdays will be played at night as part of the new AppleTV+ contract.

When San Diego State and the Chargers were playing football at Dignity Health Sports Park, there was not a football line to be seen the next time the Galaxy played a home match. Hire a top flight grounds crew and not much of an issue.

San Diego State owes a lot of money for not just Snapdragon Stadium, but also for that entire Mission Valley development. It would be wise to work out a favorable lease for the stadium, which I'm sure they've already done with the NWSL Wave to get them to leave Torero Stadium.

Also the owner of a San Diego MLS franchise wouldn't be saddled with $300+ million in stadium debt.


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## slipperydog

Phoenix Rising running into some issues with their stadium location for next season









Phoenix Rising expects stadium decision by December


Phoenix Rising expects decision on its stadium for next season by December, according to part-owner Bill Kraus.



www.azcentral.com


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## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588525147363102725

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588168733905887235


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## bd popeye

slipperydog said:


> Summer home matches would be best played at night, when the temperature in SD drops significantly.


It does not get that hot in San Diego in the summer..really;









San Diego Climate, Weather By Month, Average Temperature (California, United States) - Weather Spark


In San Diego, the summers are short, warm, arid, and clear and the winters are long, cool, and partly cloudy. Over the course of the year, the temperature typically varies from 50°F to 77°F and is rarely below 44°F or above 84°F.




weatherspark.com







ielag said:


> San Diego State owes a lot of money for not just Snapdragon Stadium, but also for that entire Mission Valley development.


I don't know how much SDSU owes ..However this is how the project is funded;









Snapdragon Stadium


Snapdragon Stadium




goaztecs.com






The multi-use Snapdragon Stadium, estimated to cost $310 million, will be funded through philanthropic gifts as well as system-wide revenue bonds that will be paid back with revenue generated by the facility including ticket revenue, naming rights and concessions. The bond issuances can be timed appropriately based on market conditions moving forward. Operating costs will also be supported by revenue generated by the facility (e.g., ticket revenue, facilities rental revenue, naming rights, sponsorships, donations).

Snapdragon Stadium is designed to meet the needs of the entire San Diego community. This year-round entertainment destination and serve as a hub of community engagement and Aztec pride.

Snapdragon Stadium will be located in the northwest corner of the new San Diego State Mission Valley campus. The new facility is being designed to meet a LEED Gold standard.

The project is part of the larger SDSU Mission Valley Campus Master Plan which was approved by the Board of Trustees in January. SDSU Mission Valley will provide SDSU with the space to grow enrollment, expand research and innovation programs, and add much needed housing for students, faculty, staff, and the general community, including affordable housing. Finally, the plan creates a long-awaited regional community River Park.


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## slipperydog

bd popeye said:


> It does not get that hot in San Diego in the summer..really;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> San Diego Climate, Weather By Month, Average Temperature (California, United States) - Weather Spark
> 
> 
> In San Diego, the summers are short, warm, arid, and clear and the winters are long, cool, and partly cloudy. Over the course of the year, the temperature typically varies from 50°F to 77°F and is rarely below 44°F or above 84°F.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> weatherspark.com


In comparison to the rest of the country during summer, yes San Diego is paradise. But those temperature figures are probably taken from downtown SD or the airport, which is on the Pacific Ocean. The SDSU stadium is located in a valley inland where it gets much hotter. But still not bad at all.


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## bd popeye

slipperydog said:


> The SDSU stadium is located in a valley inland where it gets much hotter. But still not bad at all.


 True..It can feel quite warm in that SoCal sun in Mission Valley. I remember many warm Sunday Padre and Charger games at San Diego Stadium. I lived in San Diego for 26 years. 23 of those years I lived in Pt.Loma or Pacific Beach..nice and cool..never hot. Night Matches will solve that SoCal sun issue.


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## bd popeye

I'm not a association futbol fan but I gotta say I loved this! Awesome..






VENUE: Banc of California Stadium, ATTENDANCE: 22,384


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## NedaSay

There must have been a massive struggle to find the name for this club... Vancouver FC, the residents of the Fraser Valley, where the team will be based, were begging for the club not to be named after Vancouver, but I guess Lower Mainland FC would have been a tough sale and Fraser Valley FC would have been impossible to sell to the potential investors. Vancouver is the only "brand" with immediate name identification in the region, as the rebranding of the Bandits from CEBL showed recently. That logo leaves me cold hopefully the stadium will not be too barebone.


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## Ramanaramana

MLS playoffs have been very good. The whole presentation projects a league that wouldn't look out of place in Europe. Nice stadiums, sellouts, nice pitches, good commentary, good atmospheres and active support...I definitely prefer MLS to Ligue 1 and a good chunk of La Liga and Serie A.


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## derzberb

BoulderGrad said:


> Detroit


I would prefer this:









Ramanaramana said:


> I definitely prefer MLS to Ligue 1 and a good chunk of La Liga and Serie A.


and Bundesliga.

From Germany i am watching MLS highlights every week on youtube. I like watching growing things and i enjoy how the US is building up a fan culture of its own.

Nice athmosphere, nice games and you don't have that tedious dominance of a few clubs.

Yesterday i would have preferred Philly to get the MLS cup.


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## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1588299358323236867


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## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592178433626357761

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592183388731244544


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## Ramanaramana

derzberb said:


> and Bundesliga.
> 
> From Germany i am watching MLS highlights every week on youtube. *I like watching growing things and i enjoy how the US is building up a fan culture of its own.*
> 
> Nice athmosphere, nice games and you don't have that tedious dominance of a few clubs.
> 
> Yesterday i would have preferred Philly to get the MLS cup.


That's a fair point, and I think that's part of the charm for sure. In the case of Bundesliga or other major leagues they are very mature and large scale development isn't possible like we've seen in MLS these past 15 years.


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## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592864390793289730


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## PHofKS

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592829848841785344
Is this true? That's one expensive stadium!

EDIT: Sorry, just saw it in the Proposed Stadiums thread.


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## Mansa Musa

PHofKS said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1592829848841785344
> Is this true? That's one expensive stadium!
> 
> EDIT: Sorry, just saw it in the Proposed Stadiums thread.


25K???????
They are paying about $35,000 per seat. 

Why not 40 or 50 thousand seats?


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## Franchise646

Cause it's a soocer stadium in an age where leagues make most their money form tv and streaming deal. 25K is great.


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## Mansa Musa

Franchise646 said:


> Cause it's a soocer stadium in an age where leagues make most their money form tv and streaming deal. 25K is great.


If they intend for soccer to surpass Basketball or football eventually they got to think a bit bigger. I'm not saying we need to build 60+ thousand seat stadiums but in the biggest city in the world I'd think at least 40,000 would be great.


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## nyrmetros

Uh oh......


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## nyrmetros

Any USL stadium news?


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## slipperydog

nyrmetros said:


> Any USL stadium news?


Rumors that Queensboro FC may get purchased by NYCFC.


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## nyrmetros

slipperydog said:


> Rumors that Queensboro FC may get purchased by NYCFC.


Oh? I thought QFC said that was definitely false?


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## Jim856796

slipperydog said:


> Phoenix Rising moving again, this time into the city proper near the airport
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593036057896812544
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1593020072192536576


Wow, Is there any wonder why the Wild Horse Pass Stadium was one of three candidates to be eliminated when I narrowed the list of candidates down to 20 before the first round of my last Stadium of the Year selection tournament? (The others are the Banco Guayaquil Stadium and the rebooted American Legion Memorial Stadium.) Plus, I figured that Wild Horse Pass Stadium looks like a temporary venue erected for the Olympics. And if changing home stadiums is going to be a frequent habit of Phoenix Rising FC, people are going to start ripping on them with a name like "Phoenix _Falling_ FC" or something.


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## slipperydog

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610336782201094146


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## nyrmetros

slipperydog said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1610336782201094146


What does that mean for the pyramid?


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## Ramanaramana

Nothing, it means no more MLS teams with secondary teams in USL (eg Atlanta Utd II).


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## nyrmetros

Ramanaramana said:


> Nothing, it means no more MLS teams with secondary teams in USL (eg Atlanta Utd II).


Oh ok gotcha.


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