# 2024 Summer Olympics | Games of the XXXIII Olympiad - Candidate Cities



## Marsupalami (Jan 29, 2009)

Paris has a more beautiful aesthetic too. More grand, green open spaces ( Trees, parkland) and a great metro. Very classy. Awesome city and 100 years! come on France!


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## Lydon (Sep 7, 2007)

I love the Paris logo. Very clever


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## Targaryen (Jul 4, 2016)

I hope it's Paris 2024 - bring games back to France and Europe, LA should get 2028.


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

Marsupalami said:


> Paris has a more beautiful aesthetic too. More grand, green open spaces ( Trees, parkland) and a great metro. Very classy. Awesome city and 100 years! come on France!


You want to talk about grand and awesome?


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## slipperydog (Jul 19, 2009)

That's not Paris.


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)




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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

It is a bit of an irony that the Europeans are fixated on aristocratic and authoritarian buildings from 200 to 2000 years ago as proof of their progressive nature and preparedness for the digital democratic world. 

I have nothing against them; they are beautiful and recall an age of past glories for these countries. But they are not that relevant in a financing, facilities, social value, etc., way.


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## slipperydog (Jul 19, 2009)

pesto said:


> It is a bit of an irony that the Europeans are fixated on aristocratic and authoritarian buildings from 200 to 2000 years ago as proof of their progressive nature and preparedness for the digital democratic world.
> 
> I have nothing against them; they are beautiful and recall an age of past glories for these countries. But they are not that relevant in a financing, facilities, social value, etc., way.


The neoclassical architecture looks nice, but it's not really practical for a 21st century forward-thinking society. Not sure what any of it has to do with hosting an Olympic Games. After all, it's not like we're trying to impress the Führer anymore.


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## Lydon (Sep 7, 2007)

LA has to be one of the most uninteresting major cities in the world to me, despite everyone singing its praises. Major yawn!


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

Lydon said:


> LA has to be one of the most uninteresting major cities in the world to me, despite everyone singing its praises. Major yawn!


You've clearly never been to Los Angeles. Uninteresting is a word you would never hear anyone use to describe LA.


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## Lydon (Sep 7, 2007)

soup or man said:


> You've clearly never been to Los Angeles. Uninteresting is a word you would never hear anyone use to describe LA.


Well, I just used it  I truly have no interest in going whatsoever. There are plenty of other American cities I'd love to visit, but LA, not at all. Different strokes for different folks.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

pesto said:


> It is a bit of an irony that the Europeans are fixated on aristocratic and authoritarian buildings from 200 to 2000 years ago as proof of their progressive nature and preparedness for the digital democratic world.


One post from one person praising Paris' architecture and suddenly and "the Europeans are fixated on aristocratic and authoritarian buildings from 200 to 2000 years ago" !!!!

:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

^^Lol

I'm sorry for the OT, but I've a little news for _pesto_ (this to conclude my chat with him) regarding Rome Mayor, Virginia Raggi and her party....

Today, she nominated a new Councillor for the city of Rome. Well, the man that she nominated was a member of a very very small party that called for the indipendence of Veneto region from Rome (ie Italian Republic). He also is the honorary commander of an U.S. nuclear military base in north-east Italy. But the most funny thing is that he is a wealthy businessman and the head of a company that was involved in billionaire affairs of the Olympics of Calgary 1988, Barcelona 1992 and London 2012. 

This is the proof of her political incoherence: she appointed a man in opposition with the ideologies of her party. Probably, today we had a further confirmation of the fact that Mrs Raggi wears a mask. Probably, she and her party are not so "different".

However, I should like to conclude my post by congratulating with LA, Paris and Budapest. Best bid will win!


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

:cheers: (Non mais ! :colbert: ):





pierolol said:


> *Paris 2024
> THE STRENGHT OF A DREAM*
> 
> *Stade de France-Olympic Stadium*
> ...


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## CaliforniaJones (Apr 9, 2009)

There will be a great battle between Paris and LA.
Whatever the outcome, Paris and LA deserve the olympics.

Plan 1
2024: Paris
2028 LA

Plan 2
2024: LA
2028: Paris


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

...


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

IThomas said:


> ^^Lol
> 
> I'm sorry for the OT, but I've a little news for _pesto_ (this to conclude my chat with him) regarding Rome Mayor, Virginia Raggi and her party....
> 
> ...


Thank you IThomas for being so classy! I know the loss of the Rome bid has to have hurt a big supporter like yourself but you've been cheerful through the whole thing . For what it's worth, I hope Italy puts together a great bid and gets a summer games soon :cheers:

And as for Raggi... sheesh! I think incoherence is the right term for her latest moves. It seems to me that an Olympics loving billionaire who was associated with US nuclear weapons would be the exact opposite of someone who would belong to the Five Star Movement. Honestly if she continues to govern in this way we will see Rome soon suffer a severe case of buyers' remorse.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Let's not forget LA's Santa Catalina Island.


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## Manitopiaaa (Mar 6, 2006)

Targaryen said:


> I hope it's Paris 2024 - bring games back to France and Europe, LA should get 2028.


What? The games were in Europe 4 years ago!


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## falp6 (Jun 26, 2013)

Go Paris! :applause:

USA can wait till 2028 (in New York preferably).


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## irving1903 (Nov 25, 2006)

I really do want Los Angeles to win it but damn you have to give it to the French, those venue placements are killer. 

It'll be hard to argue against that.


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## -Corey- (Jul 8, 2005)

Los Angeles


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## slipperydog (Jul 19, 2009)

falp6 said:


> Go Paris! :applause:
> 
> USA can wait till 2028 (in New York preferably).


Open water swimming in the Hudson River, huh? No thanks.


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## weava (Sep 8, 2007)

It's North America's turn. Europe can wait 4 years.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Manitopiaaa said:


> The games were in Europe 4 years ago!


And....(?) Is it a problem or something? :dunno:

Us Europeans have invented/created those Games... so if you don't like the recurrence regarding _"Europe's hosting"_ ..then feel free to create your own worldwide "games" ! opcorn:


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## swifty78 (Nov 10, 2002)

Europe never goes longer than 12 years hosting but in saying that, I'll still be happy if LA wins


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

parcdesprinces said:


> And....(?) Is it a problem or something? :dunno:
> 
> Us Europeans have invented/created those Games... so if you don't like the recurrence regarding _"Europe's hosting"_ ..then feel free to create your own worldwide "games" ! opcorn:


Europeans created the Olympics but Los Angeles saved the Olympics. Twice.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

So has everyone written off Budapest then? Hungary's been a consistently strong summer Olympic nation with a tradition in a slew of sports. It would be eastern Europe's 2nd summer Olympics ever. I wouldn't mind seeing it go there.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

parcdesprinces said:


> And....(?) Is it a problem or something? :dunno:
> 
> Us Europeans have invented/created those Games... so if you don't like the recurrence regarding _"Europe's hosting"_ ..then feel free to create your own worldwide "games" ! opcorn:


:lol: Wwwhat? Without LA the Olympics would have died...twice. And I'm guessing with the ridiculous over-spending that led to the IOC setting new spending goals, LA just might lead the way in that direction too. 

But it is what it is, I want LA to win it, but I would not be mad if Paris got it.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Interesting fact. 120 years ago LA metro had 500k people. Now it is larger than Paris and Rome and Budapest combined and growing faster. And until recently, virtually all those people *came from Europe*, either directly or by way of the east coast, Midwest, Latin America, etc. Tells you something about the choices Europeans make.

And speaking of choices, have you noticed that Europeans are committing genetic suicide? It's only because of the influx of people who would die if they stayed in their homes that Europe isn't depopulating. And even then most of those people want to get the hell out of the Continent and to the UK or the US as fast as possible, risking death or imprisonment to do so.

Kenni, feel free to delete after some of the haters have had a chance to read it.


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## Kot Bazilio (Mar 8, 2015)

Paris vs LA. What a battle :cheers:


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

pesto said:


> Kenni, feel free to delete after some of the haters have had a chance to read it.


After reading your latest post (and numerous others from you in the 2024 thread*s**), I wonder who is the hater here.. Really! dunno



*The "search" option just above is truly helpful in that regard


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## garciaccaio (Jun 8, 2016)

LA x Paris












Meanwhile, Budapest...










*translate: Certainly, I am much better.



Kisses from BR


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

^^ Loved the quirky trikes in the Rio opening ceremony carrying the teams' placards. But nothing will beat the Scottie dogs from Glasgow 2014! 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/richardhja...onwealth-games?utm_term=.tfnla8V3N#.yk2v5mRYl


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewb...t-solve-frances-social-problems/#163366b11c64

*Hoping For French National Unity Through An Olympic Bid Won't Solve France's Social Problems*

*Andrew Brennan*

Parisian Mayor Anne Hidalgo’s open _call for all French presidential candidates to vocally support the Parisian bid to host the 2024 Olympics, while asking a group of French senators to build ”national unity” around the bid, is stupid._

There, I said it. No new ideas, just nationalism and pride wishfully evoked through a major sporting event to display French unity and social cohesion.

Paris is bidding to host the 2024 Games against Budapest, Rome and Los Angeles. The International Olympic Committee (IOC) will choose the host in September 2017, while the French presidential election takes place in April-May. Hidalgo, a Socialist who is a close ally of President Francois Hollande, said the political consensus is a “decisive element,” adding that IOC President Thomas Bach “told us it is a very solid asset in our bid.”

Poor Paris is in the cross-hairs of the IOC. The Olympics are expensive, the IOC has come under strong criticism for how it awards the Games, for its inherently profit making structure and for being tax exempt, and the Olympics cost-benefit return weighs heavy on the cost and is light on the return. Between 2009-2012, the IOC had $8bn in revenues generated from the sales of media rights, international and domestic sponsorship’s, and ticket sales. About 10% or $800m went to the operation of the IOC, which has about 115 members comprised of already elitist and wealthy royals, nobles, CEOs and Olympians. The Olympics are big business for the IOC and those members aren’t in need of such questionable extra amounts of income.

*How expensive will the Olympics be?*

Paris has the needed infrastructure, unlike Rio de Janeiro who spent $12bn on infrastructure that didn’t have long-term benefits to recoup this expenditure. However, custom facilities may have to be built or upgraded by a hard deadline, which would cause cost overruns that Paris would cover. The bidding cost, and IOC dictates about special entitlements for its members including IOC delegate only venue roads all negate possible profits. Paris would have to basically guarantee a blank cheque like all cities before it. And Olympic Host Cities don’t even necessarily see a burst of tourism. Although the Olympics certainly attracts a lot of sports fans, it scares off a lot of other tourists who want to avoid the traffic and other associated headaches.

A comparative assessment of the afterlife of 17 Olympic cities by Allison Stewart of Oxford University, and co-author of a study on Olympic cost overruns released before the London Games, found all 17 Olympic cities studied ran into fiscal strains. Only a few host cities have managed to benefit in the aftermath of the Olympics e.g. Seoul, Salt Lake City, Vancouver, and Barcelona.

Vancouver ended up holding a potential $290m bill for the Winter Olympic athletes village. The Turin Winter Olympics encouraged Italy to create a lottery to cover its financial loss. Sochi 2014 Winter Olympics cost $51bn. An absurd and unjustifiable sum. The 2012 London Olympics, demolished hundreds of businesses and Rushanara Ali, Member of Parliament for Bethnal Green and Bow, one of the boroughs that hosted the Olympics, said that unemployment actually rose in host boroughs during the Games.

The 2008 Beijing Olympics cost $44bn, the Chinese hollowed out a large portion of the central eastern and norther-eastern core of Beijing to build the $423m Bird’s Nest stadium, which replaced the social fabric of that eastern part of Beijing has been ruptured and replaced with a more sterile, less vibrant and unauthentic area. The morally contemptuous 2008 Beijing Olympics, 1.5 million people were evicted. 1.5 million! This continued into Rio 2016 where more than 22,000 families were evicted from their homes due to Olympics related construction.

The 2004 Athens Olympics cost $15bn with many building left abandoned. The 2000 Sydney Olympics overshot their budget by 90%, and a number of facilities remain empty in Homebush Bay. The 1996 Atlanta Olympics were 147% over budget though commercially lucrative thanks to sponsorship’s. The 1976 Montreal Olympics was 800% over budget, the stadia are not in recurrent use, and it took 30 years to pay off the cost of the games.

All previous costs indicate that if Paris was awarded the Olympics, it would be an expensive project for “national unity.” France is stretched financially with current security measures. How would the French public react to paying for refurbishment of stadia, when the French taxpayer is already financially burdened by maintaining a permanent security presence. The security presence is needed. The Olympics is not.

*Olympics + 7-year preparation = national unity?*

Trying to create “national unity” through a slow approaching and far off sports event will do nothing to help the present strife in France. The Olympics will mean nothing to the profiled and marginalized youth of France who are targets of radicalization. Equally, French society is in fear and distress now. It’s hard to see the average Parisian saying ‘ah the Olympics, that’s a great idea, it’ll solve all our problems.”

The Olympics gift countries a global platform to market their image like China showcasing its spending power and Russia reasserting its prominence. For France and Paris, it would be a further positive move towards dispersing the miasma of fear and terrorism that has latched itself to Paris for the last 2-3 years. However, we saw that the Olympics bruised Brazil’s tourist image, highlighting previously blurred problems surrounding Rio’s crime, pollution, poverty, infrastructural shortcomings, and Brazil’s Zika woes. The bad publicity Paris received over security concerns, reoccurring labor protests, and the cost and scope of providing security for a country suffering from civil turmoil during the Euro 2016 would be dwarfed by the security concerns, and cooperation, needed for Paris to host the Olympics.

The idea that the Olympics will not have costly negative effects for France, and only positive social unity outcomes and a ’tsunami of economic benefits,’ is disingenuous. The social problems in France are a current and endemic problem, and will not be soothed or abated by a hopeful sports event that would enjoy a 7-year prolonged build up. The “feel-good factor” of the Olympics – as a lift to the spirits of a city – is a hollow and false argument, and those high spirits won’t benefit the city’s frail, poor, and marginalized who are targets for radicalization.

Parisian leaders should concentrate on mending their torn social fabric through undoing the causes of marginalization, discrimination, poverty, and lack of economic prosperity for vulnerable groups. Invest into marginalized neighborhoods, not an expensive sporting event that will siphon available monies out of France, and that does nothing to ease social tension, and promote multi-ethnic cohesion and secular identity.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-91606006/

*L.A. city leaders question financial risk of hosting 2024 Olympic Games*

BY ALICE WALTON
September 28, 2016,

The deadline is looming to submit another round of bid materials to the International Olympic Committee, but many Los Angeles city leaders continue to have questions about what legal and financial protections will be in place should L.A. be awarded the 2024 Summer Games.

The second round of bid materials is due Oct. 7. The Los Angeles City Council is _scheduled to discuss the bid materials this Friday._

Los Angeles is in competition with Paris and Budapest to host the Games. The City Council in Rome is expected to vote Thursday on whether to reject the city’s Olympic bid at the urging of its mayor. The IOC will choose a host city in September 2017. 

At an ad hoc committee meeting Wednesday, _several City Council members questioned what protections would exist should the city have a funding shortfall or an unforeseen catastrophe. Bid leaders have said the cost of the Games could exceed $6 billion. They expect sponsorships, broadcasting rights and other revenue streams to cover those costs and leave a $161-million surplus. _

Last week, LA 2024, the private group leading Los Angeles’ bid, announced a number of venue changes. The Honda Center in Anaheim would host volleyball. Men’s and women’s golf would be held at the Riviera Country Club in Pacific Palisades. And Long Beach would host handball, BMX racing, water polo, marathon swimming, triathlon and sailing. 

“I guess I don’t quite understand how all of that works,” said City Council President Herb Wesson. “If we’re over in Santa Monica and something goes awry, their building blows up, falls apart, does that mean we have to pay for that?”

Chief Legislative Analyst Sharon Tso said that has yet to be determined.

“There isn’t anything to that effect in place yet and I think that’s one of the recommendations we need to work toward,” Tso said. 

_LA 2024 is expected to provide $10 million in liability coverage at each venue._

“Whether it’s in Santa Monica or Sepulveda Basin or elsewhere, LA ’24 has an insurance obligation to protect the city, whatever city that venue may be in,” said Councilman Paul Krekorian. 

There is also state legislation, SB 1465, awaiting action by Gov. Jerry Brown that would create the Olympic Games Trust Fund. The fund would provide as much as $250 million to cover a financial deficit or liability. 

“I would hope that the governor would sign that because this isn’t just an Olympics for Los Angeles. It’s an Olympics for the state, for the region, for the country,” said Councilman Mitch O’Farrell, before adding: “We’re all pretty sure there won’t be a deficit in these Games.”

*Despite the concerns they expressed, members of the committee voted to support the bid materials.*

The final round of bid materials, including the budget for the Games, will be considered by the council in December.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.dailynews.com/events/201...ves-stage-ii-documents-for-2024-olympic-games

*Los Angeles City Council approves Stage II documents for 2024 Olympic Games*
By Scott M. Reid, 09/30/2016

LOS ANGELES >> The _Los Angeles City Council on Friday voted to authorize Mayor Eric Garcetti and council president Herb Wesson to sign a series of guarantees to the International Olympic Committee should Los Angeles be awarded the 2024 Olympic Games._

In addition to authorizing the guarantees that would become legally binding only should the L.A. bid be successful, the council _also approved a Joint Marketing Programme Agreement between the U.S. Olympic Committee and Los Angeles 2024_, the local organizing committee.

Both items are part of Stage II documents LA 2024 is due to submit to the International Olympic Committee *by Oct. 7.*

The IOC will vote next September on the host city for the 2024 Summer Olympics.

Earlier this week, *Gov. Jerry Brown signed legislation that provided Los Angeles’ bid with a state-funded $250 million guarantee against cost overruns.*

Brown’s signing of SB 1465 into law was viewed as critical in the eyes of the International Olympic Committee.

Next week, Los Angeles 2024 must submit Stage II bid documents that detail governance, legislation and venue funding for the event.

A state-funded *Olympic Games Trust Fund *would pay for potential cost overruns. The fund would pay up to $250 million to cover cost overruns related to the Games. _The payments would begin only after LA 2024’s private insurance payouts are exhausted and the City of Los Angeles contributes $250 million._

LA 2024 has projected a $161.1 million surplus on the 2024 Olympics that are expected to come with a $4.66 billion price tag. LA 2024 expects to receive at least $1.5 billion in television and international sponsorship revenue from the IOC and $1.437 billion in domestic sponsorship revenues. The 1984 Olympic Games generated a $232 million surplus.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

garciaccaio said:


> LA x Paris
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:lol::lol: Love it. 

*The New World* vs *The Old World*...what an epic battle. They couldn't be more different.

Memories...like the ones....


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## Saiholmes (Jan 16, 2005)

falp6 said:


> Go Paris! :applause:
> USA can wait till 2028 (in New York preferably).


An infrastructure reason holds many US cities back. The lack of justification for an Olympic-size track and field stadium. The US has been home to many large American football stadiums (NFL is the highest-grossing sport league in the world), but *not track and field stadiums*. 






Other cities have perhaps too many roadblocks with questions about facilities and politics. The public would ultimately need to support the effort. Most cities in the United States couldn’t commit to hosting the games if it put taxpayers at risk of paying for cost overruns. And federal government subsidies are not available to it.

The LA bid for the 2024 Summer Olympics is the third United States summer bid since hosting the Atlanta Olympics, previously losing in 2012 (New York) and 2016 (Chicago). New York has already built a stadium for its football teams. Most likely, it won't happen that way for New York. 

1996 Atlanta Olympic Stadium








http://olympics.ballparks.com/1996Atlanta/

After Olympic Games:








http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=131812553

Now:








http://dailytrackpic.com/2012/07/31/olympic-stadium-atlanta-ga/

And, Los Angeles has shaped every aspect of the modern Olympic movement, from the bidding process, to the staging of spectacles, to the management of legacies. The 1932 Los Angeles Olympics provided the basic template for modern Olympic mega-productions. The 1984 Los Angeles Olympics redesigned and revitalized that template, re-energizing the games at a crucial time. It is the first in history not to be sponsored by the government and invented the modern-day template for the Olympics. 

The First-Ever Olympic Village Was Built in Los Angeles








https://www.kcet.org/departures-columns/the-first-ever-olympic-village-was-built-in-los-angeles

For the 1984 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles, California, composer John Williams wrote "Olympic Fanfare and Theme", which is played in a medley with "Bugler's Dream." Williams's arrangement of "Bugler's Dream" as well as "Olympic Fanfare and Theme" are both commonly used in recent Olympic coverage. It is considered to be a symbol of the Olympics. 











And Los Angeles is the most ethnically diverse city in the world, with culturally rich neighborhoods and attractions throughout the city.





In addition, LA is a great Olympic town. There are medal winners all over the place thanks to world-class training facilities.






University of Southern California

There have been more Trojans in the Olympics than from any other university in the world – if USC were its own nation in the Olympics, it would rank tied for 8th in the world in total gold medals earned. USC’s participation in the Olympics dates back to 1904, when Emil Breitkreutz’06 traveled to St. Louis, becoming the first USC student to compete in the Olympic Games. 

All told, USC’s Olympians have won 587 places on Olympic teams, and have taken home 135 gold medals, 87 silver and 65 bronze. As of the 2012 Olympic Games, if USC were a country entering its athletes in the Olympic Games, its 287 all-time Summer Olympics medals would place it 16th among all participating countries. And in six different Olympics, USC’s medal count would have positioned it among the top 10 competing nations.

http://about.usc.edu/history/uscs-olympic-heritage/










University of California, Los Angeles

UCLA owns one of the richest Olympic traditions of any University. Overall, UCLA has won 251 all-time Summer Olympics medals - 126 gold, 65 silver and 60 bronze. The Bruins have had at least one competitor in every Olympics since 1920 with one exception (1924), and UCLA has won a gold medal in every Olympics in which the U.S. competed since 1932.

A total of 398 Bruins have combined to make 650 Olympic appearances.The first Bruin Olympian participated in 1920, just one year after the founding of the university - Clyde A. Swendsen was a member of the water polo team.

http://www.uclabruins.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=208191112

USC Total: 135 all-time Summer Olympics gold medals
UCLA Total: 126 all-time Summer Olympics gold medals
USC+UCLA Total: 261 all-time Summer Olympics gold medals
France: 202 all-time Summer Olympics gold medals










USC and UCLA-affiliated athletes scored a total of 30 medals at the Olympics in Rio, with Trojans bringing home the most at 21.

Moreover, California is now the sixth-largest economy in the world, *surpassing France*, thanks to a robust state economy and strong U.S. dollar.



> California was the world’s eighth-largest economy in 2014, Irena Asmundson, chief economist of the California Department of Finance, said in a phone interview on Friday. “California did exceptionally well in 2015.”
> 
> California is home to diverse strong economies, including Silicon Valley and Hollywood. Manufacturing and agriculture have performed well despite a severe drought, Asmundson said.
> 
> California has outpaced the rest of the country on job growth, California’s finance department said in its June bulletin this week. Gross state product was $2.46 trillion in 2015, with 4.1% of growth in real terms, it added.


http://fortune.com/2016/06/17/california-france-6th-largest-economy/

In addition to North America's Most Lucrative Stadium, Staples Center, home to the NBA’s Lakers and Clippers, the NHL’s Kings, and the WNBA’s Sparks
http://www.forbes.com/2010/01/05/lakers-cowboys-yankees-business-sports-stadiums.html










Los Angeles is to build world's most expensive stadium complex. Los Angeles Times compared their ambitions for the development to Florida's Disney World theme park. The development's footprint will also host a 6,000-seat performance venue, more than 1.5 million square feet of retail and office space, 2,500 homes, a 300-room hotel, and 25 acres of parks.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/19/architecture/new-nfl-stadium-los-angeles/










However there are more points need to be included. Just tell you random facts about US, LA, and Olympic Games.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

So.....LA glorifies the Olympics, while others glorify their cities, and not the Olympics?  
Big difference.


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## TEBC (Dec 26, 2004)

Paris


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## CODEBARRE75011 (May 16, 2006)

pesto said:


> Interesting fact. 120 years ago LA metro had 500k people. Now it is larger than Paris and Rome and Budapest combined


Not reallly, Paris metro with the american statistical method (25% or more commuter) is quite similar : around or little more 14 millions inhabitants.

With the french statistical method which is much stricter (40% or more commuter) Paris metro has 12,5 millions inhabitants.



CaliforniaJones said:


> There will be a great battle between Paris and LA.
> Whatever the outcome, Paris and LA deserve the olympics.
> 
> Plan 1
> ...


Paris must win, because it's the third attempt. If Paris don't win, i think there not plan 2 for Paris.

LA can wait 2028, not Paris.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

​


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## Marsupalami (Jan 29, 2009)

mmm - maybe LA after all - but only if they keep surfing in the Olympics please - especially ladies!  
- and DONT DROP the Rugby from the roster please!
- Vegas Rugby 7's is finally giving you guys a taste of a great game - and maybe one day you will be playing great 15 a side too. 
As a nation, USA is missing out on the Real Mans game!


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

After the great success of 7s at Rio, Rugby is surely here to stay. But then again, the IOC can be a law unto themselves.


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

Kenni said:


> So.....LA glorifies the Olympics, while others glorify their cities, and not the Olympics?
> Big difference.


THIS. LA's bids has always been about the Olympic games. The spirit of the games or the Olympic movement or whatnot. Beijing's Olympics were 'look at all of our pretty stadiums that won't be used at all after the Olympics are done.'


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Kenni said:


> So.....LA glorifies the Olympics, while others glorify their cities, and not the Olympics?
> Big difference.


It's a nice narrative if you can get it to stick, but I don't see a huge difference between LA24 and Paris '24 in this sense. 

And it is, of course, possible to do both


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

CODEBARRE75011 said:


> Not reallly, Paris metro with the american statistical method (25% or more commuter) is quite similar : around or little more 14 millions inhabitants.
> 
> With the french statistical method which is much stricter (40% or more commuter) Paris metro has 12,5 millions inhabitants.
> 
> ...


Yes. And LA has 22 million (10M, LA County; 4M, Orange County; 5M, the Inland Empire; 1M Ventura County; 1M N. SD County; 1M growth over the next 8 years). I do not include the San Diego/Tijuana area which adds 6M more within about an hour of the Orange County and Long Beach venues.

I do not question that Paris would put on a fine Olympics or that it is a beautiful city (as are Rome and Budapest); I was only objecting to the comments of some that there is something unlivable about LA. This has been clearly disproved by those voting with their feet and those choosing to finish off their lives where they are, but not form families.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> It's a nice narrative if you can get it to stick, but I don't see a huge difference between LA24 and Paris '24 in this sense.
> 
> And it is, of course, possible to do both


It's actually part of the standard LA narrative: the city of hope where people come to escape their pasts and either find stardom or crash in disillusionment because they can't escape themselves. It started way before the film Sunset Blvd. made it iconic as the paradigm for LA.

But the last 80 years of the film industry has added a third element which distinguishes LA from most cities, especially those who understand their glory days are in the past. It's the ability to laugh at itself (surfers, vegans, dumb blonds, boob jobs, hipsters, movie types, low-riders, Valley-girls, no culture, Hollywood endings, etc.). All staples of any film or story about LA. 

That's where the vigor comes from: anything that becomes popular or institutionalized rapidly gets laughed at and replaced by some new current of thought or activity. Where Europe sees the world and becomes depressed and denies the existence of hope, LA sees the world, laughs and moves on to do something bigger better.


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## CODEBARRE75011 (May 16, 2006)

pesto said:


> Yes. And LA has 22 million (10M, LA County; 4M, Orange County; 5M, the Inland Empire; 1M Ventura County; 1M N. SD County; 1M growth over the next 8 years). I do not include the San Diego/Tijuana area which adds 6M more within about an hour of the Orange County and Long Beach venues.


Southern California has 22.4 million and Bassin Parisien has minimum 21 million. But it's not LA or Paris for me.

Los Angeles County 9,9 million	
San Diego County 3.1 million	
Orange County 3 million	
Riverside County 2.1 million
San Bernardino County 2 million
Kern County 800 000
Ventura County 800 000	
Santa Barbara County 400 000
San Luis Obispo County 265 000 
Imperial County	165 000



















With the US Census statistical method (25% or more commuter) LA metro is similar to Paris metro : around or little more 14 millions inhabitants.


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## falp6 (Jun 26, 2013)

slipperydog said:


> Open water swimming in the Hudson River, huh? No thanks.


Well, I think it'd be better than swimming surrounded by sharks in Malibu beach...


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

RobH said:


> It's a nice narrative if you can get it to stick, but I don't see a huge difference between LA24 and Paris '24 in this sense.
> 
> And it is, of course, possible to do both


Of course it is. It has always been. LA has NEVER offered a bid with billion dollar stadiums or anything of the sort. :lol:


*1932*, focused on the Athletes Village, for the first time training facilities were provided onsite. The athletes lived in complete newly built homes. The Coliseum was going to be built anyways. LA invented the podium and the medal ceremony, again, for the athletes. Before, the medals were all given out at once in the closing ceremonies. 

*1984* Existing facilites. LA created the current model on how to develop the event, step by step, sponsors etc. LA created the Olympic Fanfare, used since them for all Olympics. 

LA has always been ALL about the Olympics and the athletes, and not the other way around, not to showcase the city,...there's no need. The setting, the weather, the mountains and ocean already does that.

Played in every Concert Hall around the world......(Williams' Atlanta 1996 "Summon the heroes" did not have that impact...nice try Atlanta :baeh3


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

All of you LA naysayers should read this:

http://gizmodo.com/how-l-a-s-1984-summer-olympics-became-the-most-success-1516228102



> It's almost showtime for Sochi, which may or may not have its shit together by the time the opening ceremonies start. While it's too late for Sochi to change its trajectory, perhaps the 2016 host city could jot down a few tips from what are widely considered to be the most successful Olympics ever: L.A., 1984.
> 
> In the late 1970s, hosting the Olympics was not a very desirable thing for a city to do. The games were seen as financially risky: Montreal's debt from the 1976 Summer Games totaled $1.5 billion dollars, which wasn't paid off until 2006. Denver was actually awarded the 1976 Winter Games but its voters did not approve public funding, so it went to Innsbruck, Austria. Plus, tensions were high when it came to international athletic competitions. Munich had suffered a deadly hostage crisis in 1972 and the Cold War was brewing. The 1980 games in Moscow were boycotted by the U.S. and other countries, and the U.S.S.R. and many other Eastern European boycotted the 1984 games. An early front-runner, Tehran, pulled out from the 1984 bidding process at the last minute due to social unrest.
> 
> ...


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

I'm floored to see Pesto so passions about LA's bid when for so long he trashed DTLA on the skyscraper page forum. Granted, the topic is not the same but it's nice to see the flip side.

Anyhow, I think it's a little disingenuous to say LA has not benefitted from the Olympics. Though it has hosted on a low budget it has gained worldwide recognition after the games, especially in 1932. That said, at a young age LA wrote the Olympic Movement into its DNA. It has continued to grow at the pace of the Movement in terms of infrastructure and that uniquely positions it as a capable host of the games. People who believe in the Parisian bid, which I believe in too, can sometimes fail to see LA's unique relationship with the movement. LA literally embodies the movement and with minimal effort aligns with it. Does that mean it will beat Paris or that a Parian bid would not be successful? Absolutely not. But you'd have to be blind not to see that LA has a natural place in the Olympics. In the many needs of the Olympics right now, LA is strong. Zooming out some encompassing the State of California it's undeniable that it's worldwide recognition in technology, hard wire to youth, plethora of international brands that drive modern culture and connectivity provide unparalleled opportunity for the modern Olympic movement. Paris, in these particular points which are paramount for the movements success doesn't even come close. But can it host a cost effective successful games. Sure. And can it win, absolutely. Just don't undermine the penetration a modern LA can provide for the movement.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

For what it's worth I think the Games, should they be awarded to LA, will probably be used to rebrand the city again from potential new riverfront in downtown to a more urban, dense city increasingly connected by mass transit, to a new airport, and a rapidly evolving creative and technology class.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

RuFFy said:


> For what it's worth I think the Games, should they be awarded to LA, will probably be used to rebrand the city again from potential new riverfront in downtown to a more urban, dense city increasingly connected by mass transit, to a new airport, and a rapidly evolving creative and technology class.


Yep I'd agree that that's the best story LA can tell from a "why is this good for our city" angle. The Olympics has done so much for this town in terms of helping it step out onto the world stage:

*1932* - The Olympics presented the "1st" LA: a Western town of Caballeros and Anglo settlers that hit a gold rush in the movie business, and created "Tinseltown"
*1984* - The Olympics presented the "2nd" LA: the mature suburban sprawl of Valleygirls and Surferdudes. Also, a city defined by Reaganomics, traffic on the 405 and Showbiz excess.
And now, if LA wins the games...
*2024* - The Olympics presents the "3rd" LA: A Globally connected city that as you say is a focal point for new AND old media, social media, aerospace and creative endeavors. A city that is ditching it's sprawling past for an urban, dense, cultured, multi-modal and eco-friendly future.

This is a good story for LA of course, but the fact is that the IOC isn't really looking just to beef up a city's reputation. You have to show them why your city is good for the Olympic movement in general. Fortunately, I think LA 2024 has done a good job of doing that and hopefully it will work for the vote.


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## hugodiekonig (May 19, 2009)

it is very hard to choose right now


Budapest now in its 7th attempt... but I fear Hungary as a small country might soon be bankrupt just like Greece... I know Olympic Games is very expensive... but if there could be less corruption in IOC then maybe Budapest can get greater chances of getting 2024 Games... the Games will then be not after all grandeur but on the smooth, safe, well-organized hosting of it (Rio 2016 for example). I really want Budapest to have this chance since Hungary, as a small nation, is performing so well in every Olympic Games

I am now down to Paris and LA... this is gonna be tough... government, private and public support are high... I cannot decide for now.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

CODEBARRE75011 said:


> Southern California has 22.4 million and Bassin Parisien has minimum 21 million. But it's not LA or Paris for me.
> 
> Los Angeles County 9,9 million
> San Diego County 3.1 million
> ...


2015 estimates place the greater Los Angeles Area at 18.7 million people. Los Angeles County has also already exceeded 10.1 million people.


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## Saiholmes (Jan 16, 2005)

Kenni said:


> *1932*, focused on the Athletes Village, for the first time training facilities were provided onsite. The athletes lived in complete newly built homes. The Coliseum was going to be built anyways. LA invented the podium and the medal ceremony, again, for the athletes. Before, the medals were all given out at once in the closing ceremonies.


I found an article about this.

The 1932 Los Angeles Games proved to be the most spectacular in history, with the sheer size and quality of the city’s Coliseum Olympic Stadium wowing the crowds and the world’s media. It was also the Games that introduced many of the Olympic traditions that continue today, including the tiered victory podium on which the three medallists stand to receive their awards. Los Angeles was also the first Games to see the gold medallist honoured with the raising of his national flag and the playing of his national anthem during the presentation.

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/first-three-tiered-victory-podium-at-the-olympics


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

There you go.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Kenni mate, y'know that new poll you started....well, I've got some bad news for you...

:rofl:



> Rome to submit bid for 2024 Olympics, despite Rome
> 
> The Italian Olympic Committee will try to circumvent the objections of the Mayor of Rome, Virginia Raggi, and proceed with the city’s bid to organize the 2024 Olympic Games.
> 
> ...


I assume this isn't a spoof, but this is getting ridiculous....and you've gotta love that headline.... :nuts: :nuts: :nuts: :nuts: :nuts:


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## ashok16 (Oct 5, 2016)

paris


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## Targaryen (Jul 4, 2016)

Not just in 1984, also in 1932 LA was the only bidding city.
And just one thing Obama describing IOC corrupt as FIFA won't help LA win the bid because we know that the members vote who they like independent from the bid quality.


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## pierolol (Apr 29, 2009)

Of course i support the city where i'm happy to live!


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## szaasz (Feb 24, 2009)

Budapest


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## szaasz (Feb 24, 2009)

Some sites.....

Marathon:










Beach volleyball:










Archery:










Swimming:



















Football:


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## Targaryen (Jul 4, 2016)

Since LA and Paris are probabaly gonna make it to the final round of voting, which city do you think will recieve votes that Budapest got in the first round ?


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## garciaccaio (Jun 8, 2016)

californiadreams said:


> 1984 was also the first time that the venues of an Olympics were thoroughly dressed up with canvas sheets on walls and other surfaces instead of just blank walls. Or a changeover from the formerly plain look, which was due to sports arenas or playing fields full of ad banners not being allowed. The Olympics is the only sporting event in the world where commercial signage isn't visible.
> 
> However, now all those canvas or vinyl coverings, since they're often heavily imprinted with the name of the host city, become one giant blur, 1996 or 2000 blending into 2004 or 2016, etc.
> 
> ...


Amsterdam 1928 cof cof....











Atlanta 1996 :lol:












Athens 2004 - It is still into the Stadium...











Then, about the cauldron nobody need to expect for a new thing... will be the same from 1932...1984... hno:

And about the Rio cauldron, it was a samaller cauldron to spend less fuel gas, to keep the message of the Opening Ceremony... There is no reason to spend so much fuel gas in nowadays and think that is beautiful. 

There are 2 cauldrons... one in Maracana Stadium and another one in the Olympic Boulevard. The cauldron from the Boulevard remains in its place. A legacy for the city. 










The other one from Maracana will be re-assemble in the new Olympic Museum in Rio. 










About the "hokey-jokey" template... each country do your best, or try it, to give an amazing opening ceremony. Thanks god we did a fun ceremony... something totally linked to our people in Brazil. And for me Moscow 1980 is the Opening Ceremony which brings to the games a spectacular ceremony... after that, Barcelona... then Athens.
These three ceremonies made new concepcts of opening ceremony... the ceremony from the 80's, from the 90's and from the New Millenium.

I believe the host city has to use the oportunity to build a legacy for the city with the Olympics. Like Barcelona. Ok... it's beautiful think how LA gives more to the Olympic Moviment than the Olympics gives to LA. But in Rio we found the way to make Olympics to be the catalyst for infrastructure projects that the city and its population expected to decades.


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## garciaccaio (Jun 8, 2016)

Targaryen said:


> Since LA and Paris are probabaly gonna make it to the final round of voting, which city do you think will recieve votes that Budapest got in the first round ?


I think maybe Paris... :cheers:


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## CB31 (May 23, 2010)

*Paris mayor heralds ‘reconquest of Seine’ as riverbank traffic banned*









The right bank of the Seine river closed to traffic. Photograph: Charles Platiau/Reuters









Artist’s impression of how the right bank of the Seine will look after it is fully pedestrianised. Photograph: Luxigon








> Leftwing parties vote unanimously in favour of closing right bank of river to vehicles from Tuileries to Bastille
> 
> Paris city council has approved the banning of all vehicles from the major road running along the right bank of the river Seine in a bitterly contested vote.
> 
> ...


https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/sep/26/paris-council-approves-ban-vehicles-right-bank-seine-road


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

garciaccaio said:


> Amsterdam 1928 cof cof....
> 
> Atlanta 1996 :lol:
> 
> ...



Some of those cauldrons are pretty bad. The one in Athens was expensive - proving cost doesn't guarantee excellence - while being mocked by critics as a Bic lighter. The one in Atlanta was a disgrace and its designer should have been immediately let go after the first draft was shown. He or she must have been related to one of the top insiders in the organizing committee.

It's silly to say the one in Rio had to be small and funny looking for environmental reasons. Even more so when the true environmental problems of Rio, as heavily publicized worldwide, include things like its polluted waters. Moreover, the cauldron wasn't even designed by a Brazilian. But there are at least remnants of it still around in Rio. 

The one in London was torn apart after the games and then distributed for scrap. Actually, parts of it were given to collectors throughout the world---who eventually may turn them in for scrap. 




> _About the "hokey-jokey" template... each country do your best, or try it, to give an amazing opening ceremony. Thanks god we did a fun ceremony... something totally linked to our people in Brazil. And for me Moscow 1980 is the Opening Ceremony which brings to the games a spectacular ceremony... after that, Barcelona... then Athens.
> These three ceremonies made new concepcts of opening ceremony... the ceremony from the 80's, from the 90's and from the New Millenium._


Are you sure about Moscow 1980? I've watched segments of it that make me shake my head, one example being when the Olympic flag was brought into the stadium. The presentation comes off as strange in an Iron Curtain sort of way. The soldiers carrying the flag are marching in an odd manner, a funny type of goose stepping, and the entrance music is wrong. The stadium also has a clumsy, hard-up Communist look about it, such as the large sign that translates into the official motto of "faster, higher, stronger."

The producers of Rio said they couldn't do a better job because their budget wasn't larger. But, if anything, they could have saved money and made their ceremony less goofy if they didn't waste money on certain features. The people on tricycles, as one example, looked really silly. Things like that made the whole presentation seem less like an Olympics and more like an event hosted by a local Brazilian high school.


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## garciaccaio (Jun 8, 2016)

californiadreams said:


> The producers of Rio said they couldn't do a better job because their budget wasn't larger. But, if anything, they could have saved money and made their ceremony less goofy if they didn't waste money on certain features. The people on tricycles, as one example, looked really silly. Things like that made the whole presentation seem less like an Olympics and more like an event hosted by a local Brazilian high school.


Take a look again in Atlanta opening ceremony and then tell me what is an "event hosted by a local high school"... Mayan Olympic spirits, really? :nuts::lol:

Nowadays nobody cares about an opening ceremony like LA'84 or even more, Atlanta'96. 


Rio made something cool, funny, that has pleased us. We don't need to talk only about us, we would prefer to send a message to the world. Ok... we have poluted waters in Guanabara Bay, we have some forest devastation in Amazon Forest... but we recognize our mistakes and try do our best, with not many sources... If you did not understand the concept of the ceremony, ok... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And about the tricycles:

xoxo haters











Ahh yeah... I still believe it's time for Paris... LA will have other opportunities.


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## Akai (Nov 16, 2011)

Paris -> 100 years
or
Budapest -> New olympic city


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

garciaccaio said:


> And about the tricycles:
> 
> xoxo haters




:laugh:


Former mayor of Atlanta, Andrew Young, may have a few words about some of the ideas approved in Rio as what he himself signed off on 20 years ago. 

A committee of architects came up with the design of the cauldron in 1996?! Seriously?!





> _ATLANTA -- One of the key men behind Atlanta’s 1996 Olympics says one of its remaining landmarks is “an embarrassment.” Former Atlanta mayor and UN Ambassador Andrew Young says the Olympic cauldron is his biggest regret from the games twenty years ago. In 1996, it was the centerpiece of one of the most memorable of Olympic moments: when Muhammad Ali touched a torch to a mobile wick that shot up a wire and lit the cauldron, then located above Atlanta’s Olympic stadium.
> 
> But the cauldron itself got poor reviews for design – famously likened to a the shape of a McDonald’s French fry box. And the man who sold the world on Atlanta’s Olympic bid now says it was his biggest regret.
> 
> ...


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## hugodiekonig (May 19, 2009)

beautiful Budapest!!! The Queen of the Danube!


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

garciaccaio said:


> Nowadays nobody cares about an opening ceremony like LA'84 or even more, Atlanta'96.


To say nobody cares about LA's 1984 opening ceremony is probably as true as nobody cares about Rio's 2016 opening ceremony as both are past. Also, Angelinos are as proud of those opening ceremonies as Brazilians are of Rio's. But as far as impact this comment is laughable at best because LA'S were tailored for TV. Rocket man, the flipping of the cards showing every participating nations flag were pretty monumental for that time. Still, history will show how Rio's opening ceremony affected the movement. In terms of LA, it was the first truly worldwide televised games, and when you hear an Olympic Tune it's important to remember that they made their first appearance at either LA's 1984 ceremony, or in Atlanta in 1996. I am not sure I saw anything in Rio's opening ceremony that was written into the Movement that we will see again come 2020, 2024, or beyond. However, if you differ I'd like to know why. What do you think Rio brought that will surpass LA and Atlanta in terms of other Opening Ceremonies. Each and every Olympics since 1984 and 1996 is marked by songs, or television and corporate sponsorship. What can we expect from Rio's opening ceremony? 

Even more, about infrastructure. Atlanta's Harrfield Jackson airport has gone on to become the worlds busiest. That infrastructure improvement alone has benefitted that city tremendously making it an inland port and an ideal place for major international brands to establish their headquarters. For 1984, LAX added the Tom Bradley International Terminal to make it the Worlds 6th busiest. Along with that LA went on to have a county wide Automated Traffic Control Survallience System that manage traffic light timing and at this point even dim it's led street lamps. Add the Olympic Village and the raising of a countries flag along with a gold medal winners National Anthem and I just can't see how Rio has staged a more successful games. Not going to say that they weren't successful, but infrastructure wise I still can't see that Rio managed to... forget it. 

I will give you that atlantas opening ceremony was corny though.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

This? Of course NOW it's *no big deal*. But in 1984...are you kidding me!! It was awesome!!

(You gotta love the 80's :lol


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

*LA HIGHLIGHTS*


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Closing.....










UFO


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RuFFy said:


> I will give you that atlantas opening ceremony was corny though.


Unfortunately, LA, in a way, has to take some responsibility for that. That's because it was put together by person based in LA, a well-known producer of special TV shows and big events. Another Hollywood producer, the guy who did the TV series Roots, supervised the games in LA. So 1984 was just one inch away from doing something as bad as what happened in 1996. In that regard, Los Angeles dodged a bullet.

London in 2012 wasn't so lucky. They got stuck with their own version of a locally grown producer of movies and TV programs. His ceremony came off like a bad made-for-TV show. 

I remember some British comedienne mugging for the cameras as a London orchestra played the theme to the movie Chariots of Fire. Lots of Britishers, however, lapped up that part of the ceremony. Personally, I wanted a security guard to enter the area and haul that guy away. 

Just as humorous (not) was when the queen was made to look like she and James Bond had parachuted into the stadium. If LA in 1984 had attempted something as hokey as that, everyone would be complaining - and rightly so - that we had Hollywoodized the event and cheapened it beyond recognition.

If LA ever hosts the Olympics again, and if it allows its Olympics to begin as lamely as that, then I'd prefer LA never be given that opportunity, whether in 2024, 2028 or 3028.


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## Сталин (Dec 29, 2011)

It's pretty much a competition of which city gets into the most debt & major budget cuts for these new Stadiums. The LA games in the 80's took till about 2006 to completely pay off, by then nobody even remembered that there was an Olympics in LA.

I don't really like France, so I vote Paris should wear the Olympic crown of debt. 

If North Korea were to hold the Olympics, then their country would go completely broke, and the regime would collapse. Pyongyang should be 2028.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Barcelona was great. Beijing of course. Athens wasn't bad. I have an idea what I would do for LA if they get the honors. Atlanta and Seoul were just a repeat of the previous one only that they said..."Oh yeah, you had formations, we'll do them grandeur, you had costumes with wiry sheets...we'll make "em bigger". No innovation.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

The 1992 games in Spain had too much opera singing and singers, which became tedious after awhile. A sports commentator made light of that when he joked, well after the ceremony had been over, that an aria was still being sung in the stadium. 

It was also the first opening to ever be held at night, which can make an atmosphere seem dark not just literally but figuratively too.

I believe that's when they began the stunt of having people and things gliding all over the stadium on high wires. It seems like every ceremony nowadays requires children and contraptions be seen floating over the field, along with people on the ground dressed up in bizarro costumes. 

The Olympics have gone into the tank for Cirque de Soleil and may never climb out of that. I'm guessing that Paris, the home of foo-foo, will continue that trend.

One reason why the Olympics in Tokyo way back in 1964 were considered a notable games, and sort of a watershed, was because their organizers handled that event's opening with a level of ceremonial dignity and grace higher than what had preceded it. I doubt that will be repeated in 2020.

The traditions have been totally thrown out over the past few decades and people in today's era may not expect nor want anything different. But that's one reason why even some of those same people may sense -- at least on an unconscious level -- that the Olympics in the 21st century have lost some of their original seriousness and charm.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Funny but true, it was Barcelona that covered the field for the first time. I wasn't crazy about the singing either, but this...was amazing! After Barcelona everyone started dressing up like you say, it was amazing, but everyone copied after. LA had marching bands, dancing....gym folks? :lol: 

The Mediterranean (the ship metaphor was _muy bueno_, war, decease and negativity [bull horns and those black ugly things :lol:] opposing the progress of humanity [boat] as they want to reach Hercules [sun].....) 10 minutes...watch it.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

.....humanity seems lost, the ship breaks apart, but humanity prevails....they put it back together and reach the sun...Hercules....

(There was no narration in the stadium, which was GREAT, it flowed right through)


Then the fat ladies sang :lol: (a lot)


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

*LA84*




















***********-488633661 by Dennis Sosa-Julé, on Flickr


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Kenni said:


> Funny but true, it was Barcelona that covered the field for the first time. I wasn't crazy about the singing either, but this...was amazing! After Barcelona everyone started dressing up like you say, it was amazing, but everyone copied after. LA had marching bands, dancing....gym folks? :lol:



Those videos make me realize my memory has been faulty since I thought the entire ceremonies in Spain had occurred at night. They actually began during the late afternoon and concluded when the sun had fully set. 

You're correct about that being the first time the field of an Olympic opening was covered with a tarp. That seems like an unnecessary expense and waste of time. The simple expanse of a green lawn seems better suited to such an occasion. Natural and appropriately plain. By contrast, all that plastic is an environmental disaster. Think of the children! 

But if a cover has to be used, it should not look like the shiny vinyl stuff that covered the center of the stadium in Atlanta. That gave a cheap look to the whole event. I believe the same has been true of some other Olympics since then. 

It's the basic things that can set the tone of a games. 

I watch this video of the games in Tokyo over 50 years ago -- which is now wrestling with the growing cost of its games in 2020 -- and the large message board with the 3 tall flag poles on top, straddled by honor guards, and the placard bearers with their official uniforms and simple signs of participating countries, and the tall flag poles at the rim of the stadium, and the look of the event in general has a dignity that has been lost in favor of a Las Vegasized Cirque de Soleil approach to ceremony. 

Over 50 years later, we now have people dressed like dweebs riding into a stadium on tricycles that look like they've been outfitted by a 99 Cents store.

As for Barcelona, if they had to reenact historic ocean-faring parts of Spain's history, why couldn't the participants at least not have been dressed up as though they were at Mardi Gras or attendees at one of those annual parades where rainbow flags are displayed all over the place?








The past few Olympics have so soured me on a sense of the game's original history and dignity, that the prestige of the event has been lost. I don't see that changing anytime soon. It's our new culture of tattoos, cell phones and younger people trying to eke out a living while living in their mother's basement.


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## CB31 (May 23, 2010)

*Paris' new public transport infrastructure by 2024
*


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## Marsupalami (Jan 29, 2009)

If Trump gets into power, I think the IOC will aim for Paris rather than LA just on taste and subconscious bias.
Does anyone think the same?


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## Targaryen (Jul 4, 2016)

Marsupalami said:


> If Trump gets into power, I think the IOC will aim for Paris rather than LA just on taste and subconscious bias.
> Does anyone think the same?


I agree but it will also be interesting what happens if french republicans win at the elections in May.


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

garciaccaio said:


> Nowadays nobody cares about an opening ceremony like LA'84 or even more, Atlanta'96.


Really? The 84 Olympics set the benchmark for how the Olympics are presented to the WORLD. Hell are you talking about? To this day people still talk about Rhapsody in Blue being preformed with 84 grand pianos.


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

CB31 said:


> *Paris' new public transport infrastructure by 2024
> *


Los Angeles's Measure M.


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

La Repubblica reported that an Italian delegation was in Lausanne last night. The news is still not confirmed by other Italian sources, but probably CONI President Giovanni Malagò and Roma 2024 Committee have decided to submit the Candidature File Part 2 (Governance, Legal and Venue Funding) to the IOC. The deadline was October 7, 2016. While seems that the IOC has still not received any letter from Rome Mayor, Virginia Raggi, that should formally announce her opposition to the Olympic bid.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

californiadreams said:


> Those videos make me realize my memory has been faulty since I thought the entire ceremonies in Spain had occurred at night. They actually began during the late afternoon and concluded when the sun had fully set.
> 
> You're correct about that being the first time the field of an Olympic opening was covered with a tarp. That seems like an unnecessary expense and waste of time. The simple expanse of a green lawn seems better suited to such an occasion. Natural and appropriately plain. By contrast, all that plastic is an environmental disaster. Think of the children!
> 
> ...


No. Read again. The sea battle part (Barcelona) is not a Spanish historic depiction. It represents Humanity and it's struggles as a civilization. 

New generations demand something different. What worked in 1932, 1960 is probably not in the new generations palette. 

Atlanta tried to copy Barcelona, as Barcelona did many of the "firsts"....and videomapping seems here to stay...it's cheaper.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

soup or man said:


> Really? The 84 Olympics set the benchmark for how the Olympics are presented to the WORLD.


It goes beyond even those elements that are totally different at each games.

The following segment - the raising of the Olympic flag - may be uninteresting or unimportant, or all the same, to most people. But as an admitted Olympics geek, I notice that the format used for it and the way the Olympic anthem itself is played make it either better or not as good. 








Notice the humorously inappropriate way it was done in Munich in 1972. The Moscow 1980 clip doesn't show the full presentation, where the participants are marching in a funny looking way and the background music, Beethoven's Ode to Joy and the look of the stadium, deflates the quality and appeal of that one moment. 

Beijing in 2008 required a wind machine in order to make the flag unfurl and fly, so that was like a mechanical faux pas. The other recent ceremonies, because they're taking place at night, make the flag presentation seem somehow sad and gloomy. That also makes the release of hundreds of pigeons -- as symbols of joy and peace -- no longer a possible feature. 

People into the details of music composition should notice that only one of the many presentations done over the past 40 years was performed in the most moving way possible. 

Forget the flag bearers waving like they're at a parade, or looking a bit unrehearsed just before the flag is raised -- and insisting on waving all over again -- or the TV announcer chatting away and ruining the broadcast. The Olympic Hymn is scored just right and actually modified to make it better than the original version. That includes a segment where a solo trumpet is inserted as a segue to when the choir strikes up, and -- this is a crucial one -- the way the last few notes of the piece are performed. It ends with a correct crescendo, and the subtle notes from a xylophone have been added to highlight the point. 

Even having a large, permanently stationed choir makes a big difference. Only one games over the past 40 years included that format, at least in a very visible way. 

In comparison, notice how the tempo of the hymn in Moscow is off and the overall presentation has a Soviet-type of dourness about it.


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Kenni said:


> No. Read again. The sea battle part (Barcelona) is not a Spanish historic depiction. It represents Humanity and it's struggles as a civilization.
> 
> New generations demand something different. What worked in 1932, 1960 is probably not in the new generations palette.
> 
> Atlanta tried to copy Barcelona, as Barcelona did many of the "firsts"....and videomapping seems here to stay...it's cheaper.



But whether that presentation was purely symbolic and imaginary or was a depiction of actual history, is it still necessary that the participants at all these ceremonies be dressed up as though they're working for Cirque du Soleil?

Speaking of 1992, I didn't mention that the raising of the Olympic flag was accompanied by a solo singer, which isn't as sonically moving or heroic as a full-bodied choir.

My comment of the way the last few notes of the Olympic Hymn were performed in LA 1984 should have described the instrument as the striking of a timpani pipe and not a xylophone.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

hugodiekonig said:


> beautiful Budapest!!! The Queen of the Danube!


Vienna ain't chopped liver.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

IThomas said:


> La Repubblica reported that an Italian delegation was in Lausanne last night. The news is still not confirmed by other Italian sources, but probably CONI President Giovanni Malagò and Roma 2024 Committee have decided to submit the Candidature File Part 2 (Governance, Legal and Venue Funding) to the IOC. The deadline was October 7, 2016. While seems that the IOC has still not received any letter from Rome Mayor, Virginia Raggi, that should formally announce her opposition to the Olympic bid.


Olympic Bids are sort of like vampires or zombies: their urge to suck money from other projects is so strong that they can survive ordinary killing and stagger around for months. :lol:

To be safe, I would cut-off Malago's head and burn it on consecrated ground; drive a wooden stake and silver stake through his heart and burn the body as well. Can't hurt.


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## Titan Man (Mar 4, 2015)

pesto said:


> Vienna ain't chopped liver.


Yes, but most of Budapest's important historical landmarks are located right next to the Danube or very close to it, giving the city some quite amazing charm, while Vienna doesn't have that kind of grand architecture adorning its riverside.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> Olympic Bids are sort of like vampires or zombies: their urge to suck money from other projects is so strong that they can survive ordinary killing and stagger around for months. :lol:



I used to think it was okay if a host city spent at least some money to present the Olympics. But due in part to the way many of the recent games have left me kind of cold, I no longer feel that way. Rio and London, in particular, have added another big damper to my original enthusiasm. 

The specter of Athens 2004, with its now-abandoned facilities and the lackluster attendance at its various venues 12 years ago, started the whole downward trajectory for me.

The prestige of the Olympics has dropped for quite awhile, and I'm not even including the issue of bloated budgets, greed, payoffs, doping, corruption and all-around politics. 

The recent news of Tokyo now grappling to contain the cost of their games has made me even more skeptical about the appeal and original prestige of the games.


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

*IOC confirms: Rome 2024 bid documents received *
http://roma.corriere.it/notizie/cro...le-c2bbcf18-8cac-11e6-9946-db55f98b858a.shtml


----------



## pierolol (Apr 29, 2009)




----------



## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

https://la24-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/assets/pdf/LA2024-canditature-part2_english.pdf

LA 2024 Bid Book phase 2.

GAMES CONCEPT UPDATE
Serving the enduring American aspiration to partner with the Olympic Movement, we are proud to present
our innovative, fiscally-responsible and sustainable updated Games Concept. In the spirit of our bid slogan,
Follow the Sun, our enhanced Games Concept harnesses California’s culture of innovation and creativity
to support the Olympic Movement and propel the Olympic and Paralympic Games to create a New Games
for a New Era.
Thanks to the flexibility afforded by Olympic Agenda 2020, our
Games Concept offers the best plan for our city while also offering
the ideal experience for the athletes, Olympic family, spectators
and all other key constituents. Simply put: LA 2024 has created a
Games Concept that fits our city rather than changing our city for the
Games.
All changes evolved out of our commitment to four core principles:
◆◆ Deliver the best conditions for the athletes at the Games
◆◆ Maximize existing world-class infrastructure to create a low-risk,
high-quality Games Concept perfectly adapted to our city
◆◆ Engage the entire Los Angeles region in the Olympic festival, and
◆◆ Expose visitors to the unique and beautiful areas of Southern
California.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.pe.com/articles/lake-814947-perris-olympic.html

*Lake Perris aims to be Olympic venue for Los Angeles in 2024*

Promoters of Los Angeles’ bid to host the 2024 Olympics have reached an agreement with the California Department of Parks and Recreation, which oversees the Lake Perris State Recreation Area near Perris and Moreno Valley.

Jeff Millman, a spokesman for the LA 2024 Exploratory Committee, said the group has selected the reservoir as its “proposed site” for those events.

If Olympic events are held at the lake, it wouldn’t be the Games’ first appearance in the Inland area. In the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics, shooting events took place at the 44-acre Prado Olympic Shooting Park in Chino........


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

As with the differences between Olympic ceremonies over the past 50 years, there are differences between the bid books and the websites of the 2024 bid cities.

LA's bid books and internet page have more polish than what has been put together by the two competing bid cities. But these are minor issues or differences. Most of the 100 voting members of the IOC are going to be swayed by politics and emotion.

Paris - and definitely the continent of Europe--which France, if it doesn't nab 2024, is going to be the head of for Olympic bids well into the future (sorry, Budapest) - is pretty much guaranteed a nod for at least one of the two summer games after Tokyo. It's just a matter of which one.

Los Angeles should be in a similar position, but the dynamics are different because it hasn't been waiting for 100 years to host a games.

Regardless, the prestige of the Olympics has fallen over the past several years, which is why I understand cities being smarter than in the past and either refusing to bid or dropping out of the process at the last minute.


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## CITYofDREAMS (Jan 20, 2007)

*LA touts 'ideal conditions' for 2024 Games*

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-3827735/LA-touts-ideal-conditions-2024-Games.html


----------



## CITYofDREAMS (Jan 20, 2007)

californiadreams said:


> As with the differences between Olympic ceremonies over the past 50 years, there are differences between the bid books and the websites of the 2024 bid cities.
> 
> LA's bid books and internet page have more polish than what has been put together by the two competing bid cities. But these are minor issues or differences. Most of the 100 voting members of the IOC are going to be swayed by politics and emotion.
> 
> ...


it would be smart if the IOC select a host city that can help bring back the prestige and interest for the movement.


----------



## alexandru.mircea (May 18, 2011)

The committments for the Paris 2024 bid so far:










https://twitter.com/JeanDamienLesay/status/784402480264282113

3Bn euro
50.49% private funding
33.66% state funding
the rest: other forms of public funds, see bellow









https://twitter.com/PrettiRachel/status/784379820906086400

So: 
1Bn from the state
145M from Paris
145M from the Region
67.4M from the Seine-Saint-Denis county
35M from the Plaine Commune, a "collectivity" (in this case, an association of 10 municipalities of which the most important is Saint-Denis)
20M from the Paris Terres d'Envol, another "collectivity" in the same Seine-Saint-Denis county
78.4M from seven other such smaller collectivities


----------



## CODEBARRE75011 (May 16, 2006)




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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

So: 
1Bn from the state
145M from Paris
145M from the Region
67.4M from the Seine-Saint-Denis county
35M from the Plaine Commune, a "collectivity" (in this case, an association of 10 municipalities of which the most important is Saint-Denis)
20M from the Paris Terres d'Envol, another "collectivity" in the same Seine-Saint-Denis county
78.4M from seven other such smaller collectivities[/QUOTE]


Interesting, but the real issue is who is responsible for the over-runs.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

IThomas said:


> *IOC confirms: Rome 2024 bid documents received *
> http://roma.corriere.it/notizie/cro...le-c2bbcf18-8cac-11e6-9946-db55f98b858a.shtml


Did it say "Mayor's letter of endorsement to follow after next election"?


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

Reading through the Paris 2024 web page and LA 2024's page I've noticed a key difference. Paris' page talks about benefits to Paris and France, as well as connecting to youth. Absent is something you see repeated through LA's bid documents. This phrase in particular. "New Games for a New Era." LA is deliberately selling revamping the Olympic Brand, and Paris is not. I think it would behoove Paris to copy LA here, if it can, and promote how a Parisian Olympics would reboot and revamp the Olympic Template.


----------



## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

It goes back to what I said earlier, LA glorifies the Olympic movement. Other cities use the event to glorify themselves.


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## Saiholmes (Jan 16, 2005)

> How LA’s Olympic Bid could steer the games in a new direction
> 
> At a presentation to members of the Los Angeles Economic Development Corporation Wednesday, AECOM’s Global Sports Leader, Bill Hanway, explained that an Olympic games in LA runs little risk of encountering the kinds of problems that have plagued games in the past. In fact, LA’s bid is dependent on showing the International Olympic Committee that the city can set an example of a responsible and sustainable games that the rest of the world will be able to follow.
> 
> ...


http://la.curbed.com/2016/9/21/13005452/olympics-los-angeles-2024-bid-sustainable


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## Manitopiaaa (Mar 6, 2006)

RuFFy said:


> 2015 estimates place the greater Los Angeles Area at 18.7 million people. Los Angeles County has also already exceeded 10.1 million people.


Yep. The 2015 estimates show:

_Los Angeles MSA: 13,340,068_
Los Angeles County: 10,170,292
Orange County: 3,169,776

_Los Angeles CSA: 18,679,763_
Los Angeles MSA above plus,
Riverside County: 2,361,026
San Bernardino County: 2,128,133
Ventura County: 850,536

_Southern California: 23,770,821_
Los Angeles CSA above plus,
Imperial County: 183,191
Kern County: 882,176
San Diego County: 3,299,521
San Luis Obispo County: 281,401
Santa Barbara County: 444,769

In 2010 it had 22,680,010 people, for an average monthly gain of 17,314. 

By 2020, SoCal should have 24,584,579 people.
By July 2024, SoCal should have 25,640,733 people.


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## Manitopiaaa (Mar 6, 2006)

potiz81 said:


> North America is just two countries, USA and Canada. They can wait more, France is waiting patiently its turn for almost 100 years.


And one of those countries alone has more people than Germany, UK, Italy, Spain, and France _combined _(and with room to spare).

_United States of America: 324,118,787
_
_Western Europe's Big 5: 316,327,231_
France: 64,668,129
Germany: 80,682,351
Italy: 59,801,004
Spain: 46,064,604
UK: 65,111,143

The U.S. is not equal to the 53, or whatever, countries of Europe. The U.S. alone is 2x the land area of the entire 28-member EU.

Recap:
The U.S. economy is as large as that of the EU's
The U.S. is 2x larger in land area than the entire EU
The U.S. has more people than the 5 most powerful members of the EU _combined_

Trying to argue that the U.S. is only one country so it should rarely get to host is absurd. Then again, half this thread is people wanting the games to cycle between the same 5 European capitals until the end of time: London, Paris, Rome, Madrid, Berlin, rinse and repeat, London, Paris, Rome...


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

I notice the second bid books of both LA and Budapest are now available in PDF files accessible from online links, but I haven't been able to find the same thing for Paris. 

The LA 2024 website was updated today to acknowledge the 2nd phase of the bidding process, but the Paris 2024 site isn't.

The group behind the LA bid appears to be working with some very skilled, knowledgeable people, at least based on the quality of their 2 bid books and the design of their internet page. 

Budapest 2024's presentations aren't as sleek and are more modest. 

I didn't realize the distance between London and Paris was so close. It's only about half the distance that exists between LA and San Francisco, which is a little over 400 miles. London and Paris are separated by around 200 miles, which is similar to the miles between LA and Las Vegas.

From that standpoint, Paris in 2024 vis-a-vie London in 2012 will be geographically similar to LA hosting the games in 1984 and then Vegas hosting them in 1996 (instead of Atlanta).


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Kenni said:


> It goes back to what I said earlier, LA glorifies the Olympic movement. Other cities use the event to glorify themselves.



That makes me think of one key difference about the ceremony in 1984 compared with the ones ever since then. The LA presentation ended with what could be called a salute to the world, as residents now residing in the LA area but who were originally from other countries were dressed in costumes associated with their native lands. 

I didn't get a fraction of that sense of universality in the way Rio did things a few months ago. They did give a brief nod to Japan at the start of this year's Olympics due to many Brazilian immigrants being from there, but that was it. 

London was totally provincial, in the worst way possible. It was like a salute to British pop culture mixed with a lot of English hokum and became tedious after awhile. Incidentally, the producer of that event purposefully snubbed LA 1984 by omitting it from a video list of past Olympic games, apparently for political reasons. 

Beijing 2008 was China! China! China! from start to finish, and Sydney 2000, which isn't an exceptionally diverse city, was mainly Aussie! Aussie! Aussie!


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## Qtya (Aug 31, 2006)

Stage II.

https://budapest2024.org/static/pdf/Budapest_2024_Candidature_File_Stage_2_EN-FINAL.pdf


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Wow....this thread. :lol:

So we outside of America are _apparently_ supposed to still be in awe of some Gershwin from 32 years ago, but if we show our own local cultures it's nothing but provincialism? :nuts:

Interesting to see that some yanks are so closed-minded and dismissive of what cultures the rest of the world offers and wants to display ("English hokum"), whilst _simultaneously_ claiming to be more universal and open-minded than everyone else. That really is incredible self-awareness guys!






As for America doing things better and bringing back the "prestige", perhaps if they did things properly _now_ we wouldn't have such weird ideas in this thread. For all your complaints about a poster being left out (and who knows why that was), you do realise your broadcaster often doesn't even afford enough respect to foreign host cities to show the whole of their ceremonies? Let me educate you. There was a slow dance segment about the universality of life and its transience, which would've put paid to your idea that London's ceremony was all about local culture, but NBC in their eternal wisdom decided instead to cut to a Ryan Seacrest interview of Michael Phelps! _That_ is _the very definition_ of provincialism and apparent disrespect which you accuse the rest of us of!
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2012/jul/28/london-2012-nbc-opening-ceremony

And talking of universality, LA showed local people in native costumes did they? Frankly, I'm too young to remember what sounds like a nice little token gesture. As a point of comparison, LOCOG decided to set up and fund the first international programme running alongside an Olympics to get young people worldwide into sport. See http://www.internationalinspiration.org/international-inspiration-programme. This was actually highlighted during the opening ceremony with a short film, but no doubt NBC decided to take an ad break at the point.

_(I'm aware the true point of comparison here should be with the LA Foundation, which is and continues to be fantastic. But if you're going to accuse others of provincialism it would help to know what other nations have actually done otherwise it's very easy - and enjoyable - to throw the accusations right back atcha)_

So, the only thing that's "hokum" is this repeated assertion that LA glorifies the Olympics whilst other cities seek to glorify themselves. Ironically, it's an increidbly provincial, ignorant point of view! :lol:


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## HOLABETO (Apr 1, 2007)

Daaamn horse riding in Versailles would be stunning


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

edit


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> So we outside of America are _apparently_ supposed to still be in awe of some Gershwin from 32 years ago, but if we show our own local cultures it's nothing but provincialism? :nuts:
> 
> Interesting to see that some yanks are so closed-minded and dismissive of what cultures the rest of the world offers and wants to display ("English hokum"), whilst _simultaneously_ claiming to be more universal and open-minded than everyone else. That really is incredible self-awareness guys!



The word "we" isn't correct because what happens at each Olympics is dependent on the organizing committee for that year's games and who it hires to handle certain chores of their event. Sebastian Coe, and not Great Britain or Londoners, deserves all the responsibility---and any of the blame for what occurred in 2012.

The person who set the wrong tone for Atlanta 1996 on its opening day was someone from Los Angeles, and - based on that one task alone - the organizing committee twelve years before that in 1984 could have just as easily made the same mistake. If a successor commitee to LA 1984 is ever picked by the IOC in the future, it may very well make a joke of the Olympics as much as what happened in 1996 or 2012. 

London 2012 ended this way:






And it included things like this:








In 1984, notice how prescient this segment was, since it showed what would eventually become host cities after that year's games:






The producer in 1984 also designed his closing so that it saluted, through the use of a lengthy fireworks display, all the former host cities of the Olympics. By contrast, the London producer at his opening purposefully snubbed Los Angeles 1984 - and Atlanta 1996 too - in a short taped episode. But that's due to the choices made by people hired by an organizing committee, and it isn't anything unique to America or LA, or Britain or London.

Whichever city hosts in 2024 or 2028, or 2032, its organizing committee may very well - and probably will - duplicate the format of the recent past all over again. And that's one reason why the Olympics have lost some of their original prestige.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

In the end it comes down to differences in tastes and I think we'll mostly have to agree to disagree, but if the prestige of the Olympics has decreased it's not because of opening ceremonies. I would suggest a few things have conspired to make that the case; doping, politicisation, more choice of what people can watch on TV (and the internet), and the huge progress other sporting events like the World Cup, Premier League, NFL have made in recent decades to push things like athletics off the back pages.

But taste differences aside, I'm not having this idea that LA glorifies the Games whilst other cities only glorify themselves. It's such bollocks. It's simply wrong.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

It's quite predictable that a London Olympic ceremony will appeal to British sensibilities, a Beijing Olympic ceremony will appeal to Chinese sensibilities, and a Los Angeles ceremony will appeal to US sensibilities. No one should be under the illusion that what plays well in one's own country has universal appeal. It just doesn't.

A home Olympics is a time when the home nation puts its country and culture front and centre. There's nothing wrong with that. Arguing that one is provincial while another is universal? One only need travel to realize it just isn't so. What's famous/important in Canada is not necessarily famous/important in the UK and vice versa. A similar pattern repeats when one travels from country to country.


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

RobH said:


> Wow....this thread. :lol:
> 
> So we outside of America are _apparently_ supposed to still be in awe of some Gershwin from 32 years ago, but if we show our own local cultures it's nothing but provincialism? :nuts: seek to glorify themselves. Ironically, it's an increidbly provincial, ignorant point of view! :lol:


Kind of like how we're supposed to be in awe of adults in funny costumes riding tricycles right?


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

soup or man said:


> Kind of like how we're supposed to be in awe of adults in funny costumes riding tricycles right?


Who said that? Someone earlier in this thread actually said everyone was still talking about the Gershwin segment. I was just teasing about that.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> Who said that? Someone earlier in this thread actually said everyone was still talking about the Gershwin segment. I was just teasing about that.


Be careful Rob; after Brexit the Yanks may be your last friends left. 

But I'm not sure you need to love Gershwin. Swizz or Nef the Pharaoh might be good enough. :lol:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> In the end it comes down to differences in tastes


And some are more questionable than others. 

Sebastian Coe has to take a lot of responsibility - and blame - for the choices made in, and type of taste shown in, 2012:













If LA ever hosts the Olympics in the future, I can easily see - and fear - its organizing committee making similar mistakes and ruining the legacy of LA's connection to the games. 

Bad choices and bad taste are fairly universal. Anyone of us can be guilty of that on any number of occasions. That's why the success of a major event like the Olympics is a roll of the dice. 

If people like Casey Wasserman and Janet Evans were to read this thread and wouldn't get the point, then I hope that Los Angeles doesn't get the games in 2024.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

californiadreams said:


> Sebastian Coe has to take a lot of responsibility - and blame - for the choices made in, and type of taste shown in, 2012


You misspelt 'credit'. As I said, it's about opinions. The logo actually looked fine in context with the rest of the branding around the venues. Anyway, it's a logo - for all the fuss it caused, I doubt it spoilt anyone's Olympics.



californiadreams said:


> If LA ever hosts the Olympics in the future, I can easily see - and fear - its organizing committee making similar mistakes and ruining the legacy of LA's connection to the games.


Ah, c'mon, I think LA's existing Olympic legacy is _just about_ strong enough to survive some controversial graphic/ceremony choices in 2024.

That's your trouble with you Americans; you're always doing yourselves down!


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> You misspelt 'credit'. As I said, it's about opinions.


You're being too kind to Sebastian:




> *Coe Defends Cauldron's Placement, Says It's Not A 'Tourist Attraction' *
> 
> Published July 30, 2012
> 
> ...


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

I generally think the head of an organising committee that delivered a hugely successful Games with a pretty smooth build up, and a sound legacy deserves more credit than criticism. :dunno:

It's a nice luxury to be in a city where an open ended and/or roofless stadium makes a cauldron very easy, but for many hosts enclosing the stadium is essential, and this makes cauldron placement not so easy. It seems a relatively modern complaint anyway, probably because we've had an unusual sequence oi hosts recently which have have had at least one open end to their stadium (Barcelona, Atlanta, Sydney, Athens), or a very heavy roof capable of holding a cauldron (Beijing).

But was the same complaint brought up in Seoul, the last host which had a stadium like London's and did what London did?

With hindsight, and modern expectations, I think a solution like Vancouver's for the cauldron might've been better for London. That's what Rio went with and I think that's how most hosts that can't get a cauldron into the stadium design will do it in future. I expect the same from Tokyo too and probably Paris if they beat LA. The alternative is to do what Sochi did and not have the cauldron visible inside the stadium, but that just upsets a different group of people so isn't ideal either.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

I agree with some of all you guy's points. And the centerpiece of a ceremony is mostly a presentation of the host country's culture to the world. 

In that sense, I understand London 2012. Beijing was....epic. Athens, Barcelona. In that sense, LA showed...local "culture" _and world culture_, because that is the make up of the US and LA. 

 This will get VERY interesting. You have two POWERHOUSES in Paris in LA.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

***Please let me know if Rome is back in the picture...officially, so I may it her to the poll.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

Personally, I can't see the opening and closing ceremonies themselves being as important as some are making it seem. Surely they set the tone and I think, at least in Rio's case, that the opening ceremony was rather disappointing. I'm not sure if because my expectations were high for Rio or because the lead up to the games were marred perhaps worse than I've felt before. Don't get me wrong, Sochi was marred pretty bad too but I get the sense that the media really clung onto Rio's problems. Anyhow, I'm not going to lie, I tuned out of the Rio opening ceremony and didn't bother to watch the closing ceremony. Do I think that is why the Olympic brand is damaged, no. Certainly it didn't help, but what happened in Rio is the result of what the Olympic Brand has become mixed with a little of what's Rio has become.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> With hindsight, and modern expectations, I think a solution like Vancouver's for the cauldron might've been better for London. That's what Rio went with and I think that's how most hosts that can't get a cauldron into the stadium design will do in future. I expect the same from Tokyo too.


I had a sinking feeling when I first saw the official logo that the London organizers selected for 2012. But I thought that wouldn't necessarily be followed up by similarly weak choices right up to and after the opening day of the games. I wasn't being prophetic enough at the time. 

I'm getting a sinking feeling all over again, even more so since Japan is noted for the reliability and competency of its people.




> *Stadium for 2020 Games lacks cauldron for Olympic flame*
> *
> Organisers of Tokyo Games set up panel to urgently find a spot for iconic component of event - just the latest snag for the controversial stadium
> 
> ...


The Olympics may have become jinked, no matter which city is hosting them. Critics are now saying that cities dropping out of bidding for the games or choosing not to bid in the first place are the smart ones. I'm starting to think the skeptics are correct.

The mayor of Rome - if she wants to soothe Italians who are angry she prefers her city no longer remain an active bidder - should have said that any Olympics to land in Europe after London 2012 is pretty much guaranteed to go to Paris. The cost of bidding all by itself is a process that requires millions of dollars. The only reason Rome should want to be a candidate for 2024, or 2028 if Paris doesn't win, would be purely out of civic pride and ego.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

The Olympics haven't become jinxed - if anything the opposite has happened. Sydney, Athens, Beijing, London, Rio has been a remarkable sequence of Games with very little actual incident. Prior to that we had bombings, boycotts, terrorists and Nazis. If your biggest worry is where the cauldron goes I think we're getting into #firstworldproblems territory.

I feel like I have to point out the obvious here. The reason some nations enclose stadiums fully is because is because of climate. :yes: Japan isn't going to build a national stadium like LA or Athens with an open end just to have an Olympic cauldron for two weeks if it's going to affect its function for the rest of its working life. Nor was London for that matter (a roofless stadium was considered which would've made the cauldon solution easier, but would've had bad effects with wind currents on the field of play).

The IOC recognises this fact and whilst they've now said they would prefer a cauldron to be publically visible going forward, they haven't castigated Rio or Vancouver for the two cauldron solution to make this possible. That is why I say I think that will become the norm. You'll have to get used to that I think.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> The IOC recognises this and whilst they've now said they would prefer a cauldron to be publically visible going forward, they haven't castigated Rio or Vancouver for the two cauldron solution. That is why I say I think that will become the norm. You'll have to get used to that I think.


I wonder if the IOC really cares that much about such details? I have a feeling they actually don't. You figure the organization is made up of a group of pencil pushers based in Lausanne, Switzerland, who are able to slack off during those years when no Olympics are taking place. Or if they do care, they may not want to come off as nags and risk alienating the people in a city's organizing committee. 

How else to explain that the problem of London's cauldron was known well before Tokyo started designing its new stadium, yet no one from both Tokyo's organizing committee and the IOC bothered to say anything to the architect.

Tokyo would have been better off if they refurbished the stadium they used back in 1964. It has a simple, basic dignity - particularly with the look of its large score board and the 3 tall flag poles on top of it - missing from most of the recent games. I think it also had one of the better cauldrons of any Olympic stadium, before and after.


----------



## CaliforniaJones (Apr 9, 2009)

Paris Bid Book

http://www.gamesbids.com/eng/docs/Paris_2024_Phase2_Candidature_File.PDF


----------



## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

...


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## garciaccaio (Jun 8, 2016)

californiadreams said:


> *I wonder if the IOC really cares that much about such details? I have a feeling they actually don't.* You figure the organization is made up of a group of pencil pushers based in Lausanne, Switzerland, who are able to slack off during those years when no Olympics are taking place. Or if they do care, they may not want to come off as nags and risk alienating the people in a city's organizing committee.
> 
> How else to explain that the problem of London's cauldron was known well before Tokyo started designing its new stadium, yet no one from both Tokyo's organizing committee and the IOC bothered to say anything to the architect.
> 
> Tokyo would have been better off if they refurbished the stadium they used back in 1964. It has a simple, basic dignity - particularly with the look of its large score board and the 3 tall flag poles on top of it - missing from most of the recent games. I think it also had one of the better cauldrons of any Olympic stadium, before and after.


They really care about it... The IOC has only accepted the idea of 2 cauldrons in Rio (inside and outside Maracana Stadium, and none in the Olympic Stadium) in last April. And the IOC always known well since 2012 the Opening Ceremony was not about to be inside the Olympic Stadium and the possibility to doesn't have a cauldron there. They worked inside the IOC to change idea and accept the 2 cauldrons. 

I don't think a no tall flag pole on top of the stadium will diminish the dignity of games. New era, new stadiums, new flagpoles, new concept of opening ceremonies (not like a military parade from the 20-80's)... move on...The IOC has other problems to deal with it... like doping scandals.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

*LA84* Official Music


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## CxIxMaN (Jun 12, 2009)

I don't see the need for athletes to march in like soldiers.

They should walk in all happy and excited, waving at the crowd and tv camera


----------



## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

*LA84*

(Ignore the author who thinks it was a real UFO, and enjoy the performance. It was part of the closing ceremonies....Hollywood style of course.)

The UFO.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Kenni said:


> It was part of the closing ceremonies....Hollywood style of course.)



I wonder why the transition from the extinguishing of the flame to the next segment couldn't have been handled with more finesse? I read somewhere that the producer of those ceremonies originally liked the idea of having the 1984 opening include a moment when convertibles with their tops down would drive onto the field of the Coliseum and spell out Hollywood. 

Stories like that are why there's such a fine line between an Olympic organizing committee and the people it hires doing something very right or doing something very wrong. 

The balancing point between an idea ending up half-baked or overdone is tough to find. Almost every one of these cauldrons and the way they were lit is an example of either too much or too little:








I do think the last two summer games have been noticeably weak in the quality of cauldron and method of lighting. Maybe that's an overreaction to Sydney 2000 and Beijing 2008 being over-the-top, with Athens 2004 being elaborate and more expensive than necessary in a goofy sort of way.


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## CxIxMaN (Jun 12, 2009)

Kenni said:


> *LA84*
> 
> (Ignore the author who thinks it was a real UFO, and enjoy the performance. It was part of the closing ceremonies....Hollywood style of course.)
> 
> The UFO.


That is very typical Hollywood :lol:

And please bring back the UFO for 2024 (If LA wins of course)
this time with Hollywood explosions


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## CxIxMaN (Jun 12, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> I wonder why the transition from the extinguishing of the flame to the next segment couldn't have been handled with more finesse? I read somewhere that the producer of those ceremonies originally liked the idea of having the 1984 opening include a moment when convertibles with their tops down would drive onto the field of the Coliseum and spell out Hollywood.
> 
> Stories like that are why there's such a fine line between an Olympic organizing committee and the people it hires doing something very right or doing something very wrong.
> 
> ...


I do have to agree that the last 2 cauldron lightnings were weak. Sochi was the last to do it the "proper" way


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

CaliforniaJones said:


> Paris Bid Book
> 
> http://www.gamesbids.com/eng/docs/Paris_2024_Phase2_Candidature_File.PDF



Less time and work appear to have been put into their presentation material and website than what the LA group has put into theirs. The overall look of the Paris bid books is less appealing than whomever put together LA's books. Even Budapest's bid books may be better than Paris's, at least from a graphic standpoint. 

However, France is going to throw $1 billion into their proposed games. For the IOC, money talks, ideas (and bid books, etc) walk. It will be tough for LA to compete against a billion, and Budapest might just as well save their money for a rainy day. Rome definitely should hold their money for more useful or realistic things.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

CxIxMaN said:


> Sochi was the last to do it the "proper" way


Russia Sochi 2014 at least shows that the host country of Soviet Moscow 1980 isn't the clunky, dour way it used to be. However, the Sochi organizing committee flipped the problem of London 2012 on its head. The cauldron was outside the stadium so spectators sitting on the inside couldn't see when the cauldron was lit other than by watching video screens.


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

californiadreams said:


> I wonder why the transition from the extinguishing of the flame to the next segment couldn't have been handled with more finesse? I read somewhere that the producer of those ceremonies originally liked the idea of having the 1984 opening include a moment when convertibles with their tops down would drive onto the field of the Coliseum and spell out Hollywood.
> 
> Stories like that are why there's such a fine line between an Olympic organizing committee and the people it hires doing something very right or doing something very wrong.
> 
> ...


Those poor birds.


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## alexandru.mircea (May 18, 2011)

This is brilliant:



> Some things never change. From 1956 edition of Sports Illustrated:


https://twitter.com/Zavagtastic/status/765228245079855105


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

CxIxMaN said:


> That is very typical Hollywood :lol:
> 
> And please bring back the UFO for 2024 (If LA wins of course)
> this time with Hollywood explosions


Right? :lol: This tells you "you're in L.A. where dreams are fabricated. I thought it was genius, no dancing bears, yet they managed to wow the crowd immensely.

I can imagine being there live must have been awesome. Just listening to the crowd in the video gives you an idea. I was obviously dangling form a helicopter which hovered very high. 

Then.....Lionel Richie.."All night long". :lol:






By the way..........way at the end...LA had one of the largest fireworks displays that lasted a VERY long time, but it was in segments.....each segment was for each past Olympic city.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

The Rams are on TV right now, and the broadcast included a shot of the Coliseum's cauldron's flame switched on. Rams just got a field goal. Not sure why the cauldron is blazing away on such a warm day. An extended tribute to the Rams return to LA starting several weeks ago, or in honor of the 2nd round of the Olympics bid? 

I was looking at the bid book the planners for Chicago submitted 7 years ago in their attempt to win this year's Olympics. It wasn't a very convincing or catchy presentation. The organizers gave a lot of focus to the city's mayor, Richard Daley, and Barack Obama. The tone is off. Sort of like a weak Olympics ceremony.

If people saw that bid book and were still so convinced that Chicago would not just survive the first round but maybe even be awarded the games themselves, they weren't paying close attention. They shouldn't have been quite as surprised when the announcement was made. The technical glitch that causes the words of one of the IOC's speakers to keep repeating makes the moment even more strange.


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## irving1903 (Nov 25, 2006)

californiadreams said:


> The Rams are on TV right now, and the broadcast included a shot of the Coliseum's cauldron's flame switched on. Rams just got a field goal. Not sure why the cauldron is blazing away on such a warm day. An extended tribute to the Rams return to LA starting several weeks ago, or in honor of the 2nd round of the Olympics bid?


I remember they would light the cauldron at the start of the 4th during USC games. I could see the Ram's doing something similar.


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## gñe (Aug 1, 2016)

My vote goes for Budapest.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

CxIxMaN said:


> I don't see the need for athletes to march in like soldiers.
> 
> They should walk in all happy and excited, waving at the crowd and tv camera


And why march in by country? What a remnant of a hate-filled, exclusionary mentality fostered by power elites! The only thing missing is the guns.

Everyone should be wearing casual clothes and mixing freely with each other and the crowd.

But huge, antiquated institutions don't think like that. They actually LIKE exclusionary nationalism. In fact, it's their business.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

pesto said:


> And why march in by country? What a remnant of a hate-filled, exclusionary mentality fostered by power elites! The only thing missing is the guns.
> 
> Everyone should be wearing casual clothes and mixing freely with each other and the crowd.
> 
> But huge, antiquated institutions don't think like that. They actually LIKE exclusionary nationalism. In fact, it's their business.


Well, at the moment it's hate-filled exclusionary nationalism fuelled by the power-elites for the the opening ceremony.

But it's soft, lefty hippy-dippy ebony-and-ivory, give peace a chance intermingling for the closing ceremony.

So to be fair, they've got both bases covered. :yes:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

I forgot another reason why, at least at this moment in the history of the Olympics, the games seem to have lost some of their prestige. I remember watching events at track and field a few months ago and the atmosphere on several occasions in the stadium was limp because when the cameras would pan over parts of the background, quite a number of the seats in the stands were vacant.

I recall a similar problem in Athens in 2004, which some people say is the city where the games should be permanently based.




> *Rio 2016: Shocking photos compare full stadiums at London 2012 with Rio’s empty seats*
> 
> Full extent of the empty seats fiasco revealed - quashing criticisms that London 2012 was no better at filling venues
> 
> ...


----------



## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

http://www.ansa.it/english/news/201...o-2_54b565c4-0447-45b2-b95e-4edc0d962039.html

Zombie-master Malago (or Ansa) uses the English conditional perfect tense ("would have been") to describe the Rome Olympics. This is used when you are describing something that is definitely not happening. 

Notice that the committee rolls on, burning money and issuing comments even after they imply the bid is dead. An unfortunately large portion of large organizations are like this.


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## garciaccaio (Jun 8, 2016)

californiadreams said:


> I forgot another reason why, at least at this moment in the history of the Olympics, the games seem to have lost some of their prestige. I remember watching events at track and field a few months ago and the atmosphere on several occasions in the stadium was limp because when the cameras would pan over parts of the background, quite a number of the seats in the stands were vacant.
> 
> I recall a similar problem in Athens in 2004, which some people say is the city where the games should be permanently based.


Ticket prices for some matches, such as track and field, were impracticable for the Brazilian population in general, unfortunately. The cheapest ticket was more than 25% of Brazilian basic salary. This was a mistake from IOC and CO-Rio2016. In the other side, the Paralympics was a big successful in Rio, with more popular ticket prices. 

Basic salary in BR: 880 Reais (274.04 dollars)

While olympics track and field nights started in 260 Reais (80.97 dollars) with some tickets for students by 130 reais (only a low percentage of the seats in the cheapest category of prices) the paralympic track and field started 20 reais (6.23 dollars) for all the seats. 

How do you expect a population spend 25% of your salary in only one ticket? hno:

Many tickets were sold to tour companies and given to sponsors. But people did not buy the packages of the tour companies, and the guests of the sponsors did not attend the event.


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## LosAngelesSportsFan (Oct 20, 2004)

garciaccaio said:


> Ticket prices for some matches, such as track and field, were impracticable for the Brazilian population in general, unfortunately. The cheapest ticket was more than 25% of Brazilian basic salary. This was a mistake from IOC and CO-Rio2016. In the other side, the Paralympics was a big successful in Rio, with more popular ticket prices.
> 
> Basic salary in BR: 880 Reais (274.04 dollars)
> 
> ...


Exactly. Its not fair to them. Thats another reason why the Olympics really shouldnt be in 3rd world countries honestly. A vast majority of the venues were empty at all times and there was zero atmosphere. Both LA and Paris will have full venues throughout.


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## garciaccaio (Jun 8, 2016)

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> Exactly. Its not fair to them. Thats another reason why the Olympics really shouldnt be in 3rd world countries honestly. A vast majority of the venues were empty at all times and *there was zero atmosphere*. Both LA and Paris will have full venues throughout.


I totally disagree with you... were you there in Rio? Because I was there... and the atmosphere inside and out the venues was fantastic. The problem is the Committee Rio 2016 and IOC tried to make a profit over the ticket prices. In my opinion, they should have a category of cheaper tickets, making in this way greater demand and fewer empty seats. It's totally possible there are Olympics in 3rd world (ok... not in all the countries), but the games need to be adaptable to the reality of the host nation. The Olympics is about inclusion, union and opportunities.


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## potiz81 (Aug 9, 2005)

californiadreams said:


> I recall a similar problem in Athens in 2004, which some people say is the city where the games should be permanently based.


Some early morning sport events in Athens indeed weren't sold out but still, the 2004 games sold more tickets than Atlanta and Barcelona.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

garciaccaio said:


>


 Can we get a woot woot tricycle drive by for poor ticket sales and viewership 2016?


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## garciaccaio (Jun 8, 2016)

RuFFy said:


> Can we get a woot woot tricycle drive by for poor ticket sales and viewership 2016?














> *Why all those empty seats at Rio Games? Plenty of reasons*
> 
> [...]
> 
> ...


I would like to increase other point: the tickets sale website... OMG, that was terrible. Many tickets for the closing ceremony was not available on the website, but only at the box offices. 

I believe the Commitee didn't work properly to solve the problem, even during games. They had a goal: profit. Eighty percent of the tickets were sold and reached the profit target. That was enough for the organizers. (over one billion reais in revenue, US$323 million) hno:


Ah yeah... the Public Prosecutor's Office forbade the city of Rio to distribute the tickets they had bought for needy children and low income population. It was considered illegal election campaign. hno:

Then the sales were good ... but people were not there in the venues during the matches. Most of the tickets were valid for 2 different matches or events in a session, but the audience was attending only the main match and event.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

potiz81 said:


> Some early morning sport events in Athens indeed weren't sold out but still, the 2004 games sold more tickets than Atlanta and Barcelona.


It's possible. However, it's hard to know exactly what's going on with official statistics because organizing committees may tally the percentage of tickets sold but not the full number of actual tickets purchased.

Here in the US, a lot of padding of figures is known to occur with the NFL and its official attendance figures. They're often taken to task for stating the number of tickets sold but not the actual number of people who actually show up in a stadium. That's why some NFL games will be listed as having 65,000 tickets sold but the actual number of spectators who show up in a stadium will look closer to 45,000.

Towards the end of the games in Rio, the stadium for track and field wasn't as clearly sparse as at the beginning, but large sections of it still had few enough spectators that it was noticeable.

That along with the bad opening ceremony left me cold. But this is a reaction that goes beyond just Rio. The tone of the Olympics in general, going back to 2004, is why I personally feel the games have lost some of their prestige.

And now reading about Tokyo scrambling with a budget that its organizing committee was downplaying as not as large as it really is, forcing one politician to want to relocate some venues hundreds of miles away from Tokyo, is adding to to my lowered regard for the Olympics.




> *Rio Olympics 2016: Empty seats AGAIN blight Games as not even the athletics can draw fans
> 
> *Medals are up for grabs but Rio public stay away from the Olympic Stadium with Brits Jess Ennis-Hill and Katarina Johnson-Thompson in action on day seven of Olympics
> 
> ...


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

^^^



garciaccaio said:


>


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## CITYofDREAMS (Jan 20, 2007)

I think Rio's games were notorious for the empty seats, just like Beijing 2008 if I recall correctly. That won't happen in LA, guaranteed.


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## Saiholmes (Jan 16, 2005)

> LA 2024 relocates Summer Olympics press center to USC in latest bid documents
> 
> LA 2024 officials have once again made adjustments to their proposal for the 2024 Summer Olympics, moving half of a large and potentially expensive media center to the USC campus.
> 
> ...


http://www.latimes.com/la-sp-sn-la2024-second-filing-20161007-snap-story.html
http://www.acmartin.com/portfolio/ronald-tutor-campus-center-usc


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Atlanta 1996, based on Guinness World Records, holds the title of most tickets sold at an Olympics. London appears to be a close second. But my recollection of Athens 2004, in terms of attendance, giving off a a vibe similar to what occurred in Rio a few months ago seems correct based on a news report at that time.

For a city to spend billions on the games, only to have lackluster opening ceremonies and then, to top it all of, events where attendance is lackluster is why it makes sense for growing numbers of cities to question whether it's worth bidding and then hosting the Olympics.




> *Rio Games Far From Sold Out, Ticket Sales at 82%*
> August 7, 2016, 4:29 PM EDT
> 
> Another day of Olympic sports played out before empty seats led to an admission from organizers that only Friday’s Opening Ceremony has so far sold out.
> ...






> *Olympic attendance provides an empty feeling*
> 
> August 17, 2004|By Dan Mihalopoulos, Tribune Olympic Bureau. Tribune Olympic Bureau reporters Marlen Garcia and Philip Hersh contributed to this report.
> 
> ...





> *Largest attendance at an Olympic Games*
> 
> A total of 8.3 million tickets were sold for the 1996 Games held in Atlanta, Georgia, USA – often referred to as the “Centennial Olympics”. This equates to more than half a million spectators watching on each day of the two-week event, which was dominated by Michael Johnson’s (USA, pictured) gold medal-winning runs in the 200 m and 400 m. By comparison, “only” 6.8 million tickets were sold for the 2008 Games in Beijing.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Based on this, the reported attendance figures for Atlanta 1996 and London 2012 are even more remarkable. Those 2 games over the past 20 years sold so many more tickets than games before and after, that I wonder what was their secret? 




> *Attendance at the Olympics will set a record sometime...*
> Aug. 8, 1984
> 
> LOS ANGELES -- Attendance at the Olympics will set a record sometime this week, perhaps Thursday, Summer Games officials said. At the end of Monday, 3.8 million people had watched the games from bleachers at various venues, with five days still left.
> ...


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

This news explains Rome 2024'a stance better and makes their position a little more understandable. Still feels like they're clutching at straws though...



> The Rome 2024 Olympic and Paralympic bid has been "interrupted" and is not at an end, the President of the Italian Olympic Committee (CONI) announced today.
> 
> The Italian capital's efforts appeared doomed after support was withdrawn by the city's Mayor Virginia Raggi, but organisers are still showing signs of life.
> 
> ...


http://www.insidethegames.biz/artic...ioc-interrupting-but-not-ending-rome-2024-bid


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Nope, spoke too soon. I hesitate to say it, but it _looks_ like Rome 2024 is now dead...



> The Rome 2024 Olympic and Paralympic bid has been abandoned, the President of the Italian Olympic Committee (CONI) announced today.
> 
> The Italian capital's efforts had always looked doomed after support was withdrawn by the city's Mayor Virginia Raggi.
> 
> ...


More @ http://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1042519/rome-2024-olympic-bid-officially-abandoned


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## Qtya (Aug 31, 2006)




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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

RobH said:


> He has also applied for Milan to hold the 2019 IOC Session as a way of "bridging the gap" to a future bid.


...Or in other words: a way to present the city to the IOC members. If Paris gets the 2024 Summer Games, Milan might be the candidate city for 2032 Olympics.


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## LosAngelesSportsFan (Oct 20, 2004)

garciaccaio said:


> I totally disagree with you... were you there in Rio? Because I was there... and the atmosphere inside and out the venues was fantastic. The problem is the Committee Rio 2016 and IOC tried to make a profit over the ticket prices. In my opinion, they should have a category of cheaper tickets, making in this way greater demand and fewer empty seats. It's totally possible there are Olympics in 3rd world (ok... not in all the countries), but the games need to be adaptable to the reality of the host nation. The Olympics is about inclusion, union and opportunities.


I guess zero atmosphere is too harsh, but my point was that there were many many venues that were at most, half full.


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## ticosk8 (Aug 14, 2007)

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> Exactly. Its not fair to them. Thats another reason why the *Olympics really shouldnt be in 3rd world countries honestly.* A vast majority of the venues were empty at all times and there was zero atmosphere. Both LA and Paris will have full venues throughout.


3rd world countries....










I feel like if I was living during the Cold War :lol: :nuts:


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

Saiholmes said:


> http://www.latimes.com/la-sp-sn-la2024-second-filing-20161007-snap-story.html
> http://www.acmartin.com/portfolio/ronald-tutor-campus-center-usc



Here is a video LA 2024 attached to their press release (from USC) that shows off the new Annenberg Hall, which would serve as the Media Press Center in an LA 2024 Olympics:






I actually like this change quite a lot. Since the Media Village will be literally across the street from the MPC, as opposed to a subway ride to the NBC Studios in Burbank (where the International Broadcast Center will rightfully remain), the Press will have the far fewer logistical issues to get their jobs done. And by placing the press center at the heart of the "Downtown" cluster, it should make it easier for the media to get interviews, etc.
All of that being said, the way things are going if LA gets the games I hope the world's media enjoys essentially their summer semester at USC :lol:


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## DetlefHubert (Oct 4, 2016)

Los Santos


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

RobH said:


> This news explains Rome 2024'a stance better and makes their position a little more understandable. Still feels like they're clutching at straws though...
> 
> http://www.insidethegames.biz/artic...ioc-interrupting-but-not-ending-rome-2024-bid





RobH said:


> Nope, spoke too soon. I hesitate to say it, but it _looks_ like Rome 2024 is now dead...
> 
> More @ http://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1042519/rome-2024-olympic-bid-officially-abandoned


OK....so even today Rome 2024 isn't technically dead.

Why?

Read this excellent piece from Robert Livingstone at GamesBids.com....

http://www.gamesbids.com/eng/robs-b...suspended-2024-olympic-bid-what-does-it-mean/

...then bang your head against a desk for 10 minutes.


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## CaliforniaJones (Apr 9, 2009)

There's a trend many cities around the world are reticent to host the olympics. Rome for 2024, Stockolm and Oslo for 2022 are examples for this trend. Hosting olympics is being costly.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/11/news/olympic-games-cost-rome-2024/index.html
Paris and Los Angeles are big shots for venues and infrastructure. In the long term, it'll be more evident there will be only one round or acclamation vote (like for 1984) if the trend goes on.
Whatever the outcome for 2024, Paris or Los Angeles could be following, for example 2024 for Paris and 2028 for LA and another.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

CaliforniaJones said:


> Whatever the outcome for 2024, Paris or Los Angeles could be following, for example 2024 for Paris and 2028 for LA and another.


Inclined to agree, though at the moment it seems LA is more keen to repeat bid (I've even read a suggestion they'll be handed the 2028 berth from USOC with no domestic bid process as a thank you for stepping in this time when Boston floundered).

So I'd put my money on LA following Paris.

2032 I might've gone with Durban as Africa's first Olympic host but they're really making a meal of the 2022 Commonwealth Games at the moment, with the CGF threatening to take it off of them if they don't sort out the basics (such as, y'know, actually forming an organising committee).


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## Martin_R2 (Feb 27, 2008)

RobH said:


> And yes, small cities have pulled it off in the past, but it'll depend what the IOC wants. Athens sold 4.4m tickets, compared with London's 10.7m. The IOC will know LA and Paris can generate similar sales to London, but can Budapest? Is its central location and continental connections enough to boost the numbers, or are they relying on the IOC's implied rhetoric that they want smaller cities to be able to host? If so, are hoping the IOC will be happy to take a financial hit to prove it?


At the very least it helps ALOT! There are for example several larger cities within only hours from Budapest by train/car/air. That too is a pulling factor I believe. "Let's visit Budapest Olympics and then take a tour to Prague and Vienna" etc.

The Budapest area is a lot more populated than Athens for example:


----------



## Qtya (Aug 31, 2006)

RobH said:


> I think the accommodation on ships idea - as creative as it is - only serves to highlight the comparative size difference between Budapest and its competitors and the uphill task it faces. As I pointed out in the previous thread, the city has fewer than half of the minimum hotel rooms required by the IOC. It's an enormous gap to fill. I'm still unconvinced, even with the impressive roster of individual events hosted recently, the city is large enough for a modern day Olympics and all that entails - from selling 10m tickets, to raising £1bn in domestic sponsorship, to mobilising 80k volunteers and the influx of visitors and movement of spectators. London had 300k people in its Olympic Park on some days during 2012 (not all at the same time, but over the course of a day moving in and out). It's a big, big ask for Budapest and Hungary.
> 
> And yes, small cities have pulled it off in the past, but it'll depend what the IOC wants. Athens sold 3.5m tickets, compared with London's 8.2m (neither stat includes Paralympic sales). The IOC will know LA and Paris can generate similar sales to London, but can Budapest? Is its central location and continental connections enough to boost the numbers, or are they relying on the IOC's implied rhetoric that they want smaller cities to be able to host, and are hoping the IOC will be happy to take a financial hit to prove it?


You've pointed it out perfectly one of the weak spots. Accommodation is indeed the real challenge for the BUD Bid.

Budapest can offer 21066 rooms of accommodation at the moment, but IOC requires 41000. So the Hungarian bid lacks 19934 rooms. Which is a lot...

According to the bid book this gap will/planned to be covered from the following:

~1200 newly built hotel capacity
~4160 refurbished dormitory rooms
~9118 newly built dormitory rooms (ongoing programme, I. phase with 2618 already under way)
~4500 Danube river cruise ships
~1000 Temporary container rooms for the technical staff

Actually this is why the Agenda 2020 was launched, so smaller cities would be able to host the Games too. Actually there is quite a lot of pressure on Budapest as well. If the city can manage, others will follow.…


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

I will say that whomever wins the 2024 games (which has been the best race in a long time) deserves it. All 3 cities will do a great job. 

(But go LA!)


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## Qtya (Aug 31, 2006)

soup or man said:


> For a while? The last time the Summer Olympics were 20 years ago.


20 years is a while. 

BTW: I would love to see the Games in Chicago, IMO it would be a winner candidate city.


----------



## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

Qtya said:


> 20 years is a while.
> 
> BTW: I would love to see the Games in Chicago, IMO it would be a winner candidate city.


Chicago probably won't bit for the Olympics for at least 100 years. 

:lol:


----------



## Qtya (Aug 31, 2006)

soup or man said:


> Chicago probably won't bit for the Olympics for at least 100 years.
> 
> :lol:


Too bad.  I love the city.


----------



## swifty78 (Nov 10, 2002)

I wonder how many members are wishing they had voted for Chicago 2016 instead?


----------



## Marsupalami (Jan 29, 2009)

If I was one, I would be.
Chicago would have been brilliant!


----------



## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

Chicago would've been outstanding. This is a sports town through and through. How the city would've paid for it's venues (it needs an Olympic stadium, Olympic village, among many others) when the city and state are dead ass broke is another issue. But Chicago would surely put on a great olympics.


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Coulda woulda shoulda. Rio had issues but put on a good Games. USA has a huge chance of hosting one of the next two.


----------



## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

nbcee said:


> Budapest, because it's the SIXTH bid (1916, 1920, 1936, 1944, and 1960). :grass:


Interesting.

LA bids: 1924, 1928, **1932*, 1948, 1952, 1956, 1976, 1980, **1984*, 2024 

*BOLD*: Awarded

***: Only bid

LA saved the Olympics both times. BTW, those are just the oficial bids sanctioned by the USOC. LA sent a bid to the USOC probably every single time :lol: This city LOVES the Olympics.


----------



## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

swifty78 said:


> I wonder how many members are wishing they had voted for Chicago 2016 instead?


Very interesting point. And sadly that probably was Chicago's last chance for a while. They can't seem to get things together for this event as easily as others...(ahem, LA) :lol:

But, let's be fair, Rio did a great job, amidst all the turmoil, political strife....and Latin America "deserved" the games. (Since México City in '68).


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Kenni said:


> But, let's be fair, Rio did a great job, amidst all the turmoil, political strife...



Your definition of great and my definition of great are two different things. 

While Rio did spend a lot on the game's facilities, including all the wall coverings hyping "Rio 2016," and manged to have things up and running by the first day of the Olympics - contrary to what skeptics had been predicting - the vibe of the event was off. Weak attendance and goofy ceremonies were to blame for much of that. 

All the news about Rio's notorious water pollution didn't seem to affect the athletes, at least that we know of. 

One advantage that Rio did have was its ability to tap into the coffers of the Brazilian government. Any city in any reasonably large country, including those in Africa, that can do the same thing will always have an advantage over a city like Chicago.

The IOC may say otherwise, but they do love it when cities throw money at the games. The more dollars (or yen, Euros or the Brazilian real) for them, the merrier.


----------



## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

Just left field thought... it would be nice to see Mexico City host again.


----------



## Mojeda101 (Mar 20, 2011)

LA mostly has all the infrastructure and facilities already built. There will be a few new additions but it won't be on the costly side like most of the other recent Olympics. Give it to LA in 2024 and Paris can have 2028.


----------



## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Let's recap the LA proposal.

*SANTA MONICA*

Beach volleyball (where it was invented), triathlon, open water swimming, 








Santa Monica Mountains.

Biking. 




















*UCLA *

Will host Volleyball, field hockey, water polo. Athletes Village.










*SOUTH BAY*

StubHub Center
Rugby, tennis, track cycling, BMX










*MAIN CORE*

Riviera Golf Course










The Forum (Historic venue, old home of the Lakers, Kings and Sparks), will host artistic, rhythmic and trampoline competitions.










Right next door..

City of Champions Stadium (Rams Stadium) (Under construction).

Football (soccer), and probably opening and closing ceremonies.




























The Rose Bowl (no explanation need for this iconic stadium)

Football (soccer), prelims and final.


















*LA Live* Staples Center - Microsoft Theater 










And next to it is...

*Los Angeles Convention Center*





















*To be continued...........*


----------



## garciaccaio (Jun 8, 2016)

Kenni said:


> Interesting.
> 
> LA bids: 1924, 1928, **1932*, 1948, 1952, 1956, 1976, *1982*, **1984*, 2024
> 
> ...


1982?... not 1980?

If LA loses the election for 2024, could return as a single bid for 2028. :lol:






californiadreams said:


> Your definition of great and my definition of great are two different things.
> 
> *While Rio did spend a lot on the game's facilities, including all the wall coverings hyping "Rio 2016," and manged to have things up and running by the first day of the Olympics - contrary to what skeptics had been predicting - the vibe of the event was off. *Weak attendance and goofy ceremonies were to blame for much of that.
> 
> ...


hno:

I can not understand why so much hate for Rio. 

And for the last time, if you were not there stop saying bullshit like "the vibe of the event was off"... "zero atmosphere".


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Mojeda101 said:


> Give it to LA in 2024 and Paris can have 2028.


Most Parisians, after having waited 100 years by the time 2024 rolls around, will say the order of that should be reversed. Whatever the outcome, Paris is the default city in all of Europe to next be given the games when they land in that continent. The IOC probably will not allow that to be any other way. Not after Paris has submitted bids on so many occasions and been unsuccessful since 1924. There's also the matter of Pierre de Coubertin, the founder of the IOC, being from France.

But I do wonder if members of the selection committee will be aware of this situation, or influenced by it, as they're judging the bids. 






I don't believe Budapest has anything remotely as chaotic. Los Angeles has no lack of its own share of a humanitarian crisis out on the streets. But it's set against the backdrop of areas like Skid Row, which were never desirable parts of town in the first place. 

Areas similar to the one in Paris, based on the background, look like they were at least once nice or even fashionable sections of town, which is why the current situation is even more surprising and unbelievable.


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

garciaccaio said:


> I can not understand why so much hate for Rio.
> 
> And for the last time, if you were not there stop saying bullshit like "the vibe of the event was off"... "zero atmosphere".



I'm judging Rio based on the way it appeared on television. Most viewers of any Olympics form their impression of a games not based on what actual participants see and feel, but based on what comes across the screen. However, even if I had been in person at, for example, the track and field events, I don't see how seeing large sections of the stadium with my own eyes instead of through a camera, and where few spectators were around, wouldn't have undermined the tone of the event as much as seeing it from thousands of miles away.

If that chart of how much has been spent on each games is accurate, then Rio deserves credit for being less extravagant in its hosting duties than some analysts have made it out to be. However, the figures for Athens, which has long been described as financially stressed out by 2004, seem way too modest.


----------



## Targaryen (Jul 4, 2016)

Mojeda101 said:


> LA mostly has all the infrastructure and facilities already built. There will be a few new additions but it won't be on the costly side like most of the other recent Olympics. Give it to LA in 2024 and Paris can have 2028.


Paris and LA don't have a lot of difference in infrastructure already built and since Paris has been waiting for 100 years and tried to get the olympics 4 times in last 25 years, I think it is only fair to give it to Paris and LA can wait until 2028.


----------



## CODEBARRE75011 (May 16, 2006)

Targaryen said:


> Paris and LA don't have a lot of difference in infrastructure already built.


For Paris 95 % is already built.


----------



## Saiholmes (Jan 16, 2005)

Mr. Bob Dylan lives in Malibu in the Los Angeles county, the entertainment capital of the world.



> Bob Dylan, the Newest Nobel Laureate, Maintains His Reticence
> 
> What does Bob Dylan think about winning the Nobel Prize?
> 
> ...


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/18/b...t-nobel-laureate-maintains-his-reticence.html

Desert Trip is a music festival in the greater Los Angeles area.



> At Desert Trip, Rocking Beyond the Hits With a Vengeance
> 
> Desert Trip promoter Goldenvoice sold the bulk of the 75,000 passes for both weekends within five hours of putting them on sale in May. The promoter stands to gross about $160 million, making it the most lucrative music festival ever. Billboard estimates the cost of producing the show at upward of $100 million.
> 
> ...


http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/la-et-ms-desert-trip-generations-20161005-snap-story.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/11/a...view-dylan-rolling-stones-mccartney.html?_r=0
https://seatgeek.com/


----------



## Marsupalami (Jan 29, 2009)

^^
Lol - Dessert Trip.
Sounds like a sanitized version of Burning Man for boomers!


----------



## alexandru.mircea (May 18, 2011)

A new venue for Paris, currently in advanced planning:



alexandru.mircea said:


> The *Val d'Europe* agglomeration in Outer Paris wants to build a 6K indoor arena (in Bailly-Romainvilliers more exactly). If I understand right the idea has started in their minds when they were bidding for the new location of Roland Garos (which eventually remained where it is). They do not know yet what sport it will host (besides concerts, congresses etc.) but they have made a call for projects to the French sports federations. They feel they have a good position because of vicinity of Disney and the under construction "Nature Village", which means hotel rooms, national train connections by TGV and connection to Paris by RER. The foreseen cost is 48M euro in a PPP. They are wishing to sort out the financing this autumn and start the operation stage this winter.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Anaheim steps in as host of 2017 weightlifting world champs 

http://www.thecourierexpress.com/sp...cle_0efc28cc-8b98-5661-a8e2-92e6978296d2.html

BUDAPEST, Hungary (AP) — The 2017 weightlifting world championships have been moved to Anaheim, California, after the Malaysian city of Penang pulled out of hosting the event.

The International Weightlifting Federation says Penang withdrew because of unspecified "difficulties."

It will be the second consecutive time the United States hosts the championships, which were last held in Houston in 2015.

IWF president Tamas Ajan says the federation was grateful that "Anaheim stepped in to host the world's biggest weightlifting competition of 2017."


The championships will be held from Nov. 28 to Dec. 5 at the Anaheim Convention Center.

---------------------------------------------------------










You're Welcome world, you're welcome. Dios mio! 
This has happened more than once. USA saves the day! lol


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan (Oct 20, 2004)

CODEBARRE75011 said:


> For Paris 95 % is already built.


and LA has 98%.. so... not much different lol


----------



## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

alexandru.mircea said:


> A new venue for Paris, currently in advanced planning:


Yep, but not included in the 2024 bid (and certainly won't because of its way too big distance from the already proposed venue clusters). 


P.S. BTW, today this project seems to be much more a wishful thinking from the local municipalities (Bailly etc), rather than a serious one... so let's wait & see about it...


----------



## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

CODEBARRE75011 said:


> For Paris 95 % is already built.


While 95% of venues already built, or proposed temporary is an impressive feature, we shouldn't forget that major components such as the Athletes Village are not built.


----------



## Targaryen (Jul 4, 2016)

RuFFy said:


> While 95% of venues already built, or proposed temporary is an impressive feature, we shouldn't forget that major components such as the Athletes Village are not built.



Comparing to previous games and even to Tokyo 2020 that is nothing. Paris will put the village into use after the olympics as well as the IBC and MPC since Paris is a big business and financial city, infrastructure like that will definetlly be used after 2024. And of course Paris and LA have very similar budget plans, that's why I think taht LA, already having the village built, has no advantage over Paris.


----------



## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Targaryen said:


> Comparing to previous games and even to Tokyo 2020 that is nothing. Paris will put the village into use after the olympics as well as the IBC and MPC since Paris is a big business and financial city, infrastructure like that will definetlly be used after 2024. And of course Paris and LA have very similar budget plans, that's why I think taht LA, already having the village built, has no advantage over Paris.


How is having a Olympic Village built already (UCLA), to not having one (proposed Saint Denis) built.??? not an advantage, that's a big advantage if you see the money being spent for one!

From the Paris 2024 Bid Book. VV
http://www.gamesbids.com/eng/docs/Paris_2024_Phase2_Candidature_File.PDF


_A guaranteed path for securing the site
The majority of land utilised in the Village concept is
already owned and controlled by public and semipublic
entities that have confirmed their interest
and support for the Village project. The semi-public
development agency Plaine Commune Development
has already purchased all required land on the island,
while the Caisse des Depots, the first public financial
institution in France, is the owner of land surrounding
the Cite du Cinema and in the north area of the Village.
*Public authorities will continue to purchase plots *of
land in the area and offices and private businesses will
be relocated with the support of the developer and a
public real estate institution to other nearby sites._

First obstacle = buying the land. ^^
second - getting tax payer funds, I know one billion was recently pledged but the Olympic Village alone will cost over one billion.
As mentioned in the bid book, 80% public and 20 % Private ($1,448,304.00 total cost = $1,158,643.00 is needed by gov.) WOW> Still over a billion.

_The Village will be financed through public and private
funding, depending on each project's long-term use. It
is particularly attractive due to the long-term demand
for additional housing in the region._


_Opportunities exist to further
modernise these facilities in areas very convenient to
the Olympic and Paralympic Village and competition
venues, which will deliver a tangible legacy to people in
surrounding communities. *Paris 2024 anticipates EUR
100 million in training venue investments as part of its
concept for this purpose, with 80% funded from the
public authorities and 20% contributed by the private
sector*. Further work to identify and secure proposed
training sites will progress through the candidature._

That's a lot of DOE!

-------------------------------------------------

Events and Olympic sport venues listed on the bid book. 

They list _11 Temporary Venues_
They list _3 venues as "Additional"_ (IBC, Media Village and OV)
They list _14 venues as Existing with permanent works required_ (Grand Palais listed twice, Roland Garos listed thrice)
They list _two as Planned _ (one venue - Paris Arena II)
and lastly they list _21 as "Existing"_ (eight being football stadiums) 

Many venues need upgrades as listed in the bid book. CAN IT BE DONE< YES!!! 
LOTS OF TAAXPAYERS MONEY though!
How do Parisians feel about this....80% number? Should they try to get more sponsors? are these preliminary numbers?

I think having UCLA is a big advantage, The cost of a LA Olympic Village in the former "Piggy Back Yards" as estimated at over 1 billion as well, and that was before acquiring the land. They decided not to invest in a new village and went with UCLA. It frees up all that money for other venues and the execution of the games.


----------



## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

Targaryen said:


> Comparing to previous games and even to Tokyo 2020 that is nothing. Paris will put the village into use after the olympics as well as the IBC and MPC since Paris is a big business and financial city, infrastructure like that will definetlly be used after 2024. And of course Paris and LA have very similar budget plans, that's why I think taht LA, already having the village built, has no advantage over Paris.


I'm not sure if this matters or not, but Tokyo is also a financial capitol and an epicenter for business in Japan, as Rio is for Brazil, and London is for the U.K. Just keep going back, Beijing, Athens, Sidney.


----------



## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Lima will get interesting next year for the 2024 announcement! that's for sure. How many of you are planning on attending your respective city's "announcement gathering/party"? 

LA's most probably will be at Grand Park, in front of City Hall, which I plan to attend.


----------



## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

Kenni said:


> Lima will get interesting next year for the 2024 announcement! that's for sure. How many of you are planning on attending your respective city's "announcement gathering/party"?
> 
> LA's most probably will be at Grand Park, in front of City Hall, which I plan to attend.


Oh wow, I didn't even think about that, heck yeah I'm going to try and attend that! Make a night of L.A.'s victory (fingers crossed )


----------



## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

So I've been a little busy outside of SSC and catching up to the thread, poor L.A. is now a distant THIRD in the voting?? Budapest venue renders do look great I have to admit , but the L.A. bid I think has a few tricks up their sleeve we will start seeing soon


----------



## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

PinPeat said:


> October 9th, 2016
> 
> Los Angeles Skyline in magical sunset by Karl Erik Vasslag, on Flickr


So, over at SkyScraper Page, user "Thebiteofsuarez" found PinPeat's photo here at SSC and added the buildings currently under construction. And to complete the process of cross pollination, here it is:










Link to the original thread/comment

So there's a rough look at what LA's skyline may be by 2024. In fact, I think more likely than not it will be even MORE massive, as we are in the middle of something of a construction boom.

As for what L.A. is now (at least in Dec. 2015), here's a great video from youtube user "Michael Shainblum" (watch in 4K if your can!):






Anyways, little to do with the Olympics. This is just a cheerleading post to boost morale among the LA 2024 bid supporters


----------



## pierolol (Apr 29, 2009)

Kenni said:


> Lima will get interesting next year for the 2024 announcement! that's for sure. How many of you are planning on attending your respective city's "announcement gathering/party"?
> 
> LA's most probably will be at Grand Park, in front of City Hall, which I plan to attend.


Paris's most probably will be in front of the _Hotel de Ville_ too


----------



## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

^^^^^^^^:cheers:

Good luck.


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Targaryen said:


> Comparing to previous games and even to Tokyo 2020 that is nothing. Paris will put the village into use after the olympics as well as the IBC and MPC since Paris is a big business and financial city, infrastructure like that will definetlly be used after 2024. And of course Paris and LA have very similar budget plans, that's why I think taht LA, already having the village built, has no advantage over Paris.


I used to think it was okay or even a good thing if a city put lots of money into hosting a games, but I now feel differently based on Rio and London, and other games like Athens 2004. 

Cities have invested billions into their games, including on large, fancy athletes villages. But the games this year and in 2012 have come and gone, with Rio in particular left with mainly a hangover. Poor attendance, terrible ceremonies, bad publicity (before and after Rio's games) and lots of money spent for what?

Rio had a new set of fancy high-rise buildings created for Olympic athletes, but I wonder if the atmosphere there was sterile and too preliminary. Was it similar to walking into a brand new house before the paint has dried and everything feels rushed and tentative? 

Putting an even bigger damper on my original respect for the games is hearing about the problems that Tokyo is now facing.










> * IOC may move some Tokyo 2020 Olympic events to South Korea *
> 
> Japanese media report canoeing and rowing may move in response to soaring costs despite promise of a ‘compact’ games
> 
> ...


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

I always find it amusing in these threads how boosters for one city immediately suggest their way of doing things is the "right" way, without any consideration as to how circumstances might be different in another city.

Perhaps it's more the case that LA doesn't need new homes (I don't know if this is true or not) whilst Paris - like London - does. So using the Olympics to build more housing leaves an excellent legacy. I've no idea why a city with a housing shortage building housing would leave a bad taste with someone like californiadreams living on the other side of the world. :dunno:

Anyway, the biggest advantage of LA's athlete's village over its rivals isn't so much that it's already built (unless people are seriously suggesting they think Paris can't build and make a good legacy from riverside apartments!), but that it has all the university training facilities close at hand. I think that's a little stroke of genius.


----------



## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

RobH said:


> I always find it amusing in these threads how boosters for one city immediately suggest their way of doing things is the "right" way, without any consideration as to how circumstances might be different in another city.
> 
> Perhaps it's more the case that LA doesn't need new homes (I don't know if this is true or not) whilst Paris - like London - does. So using the Olympics to build more housing leaves an excellent legacy. I've no idea why a city with a housing shortage building housing would leave a bad taste with someone like californiadreams living on the other side of the world. :dunno:
> 
> Anyway, the biggest advantage of LA's athlete's village over its rivals isn't so much that it's already built (unless people are seriously suggesting they think Paris can't build and make a good legacy from riverside apartments!), but that it has all the university training facilities close at hand. I think that's a little stroke of genius.


Los Angeles absolutely needs new homes. LA is building more up than out but there's a bit of a housing crisis in LA (rents are out of control) but LA is building up and is undergoing a huge boom right now.


----------



## Roxven (Jun 29, 2013)

Budapeszt. Only rightful choice. Hungary never hosted OG before but has extraordiary olympic traditions. Deserve it more than others.


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> Of course, what this post actually shows is an Angeleno who is totally unwilling _to even ask why_ a nation might want to showcase certain seemingly obscure things in such a widely watched event. It shows someone with no inclination or curiosity about people, or points of view, outside of his own nation. Which is ironic, when he's trying to argue that himself and his city are somehow _uniquely_ open-minded and worldly.
> 
> If you didn't like the execution of that segment, that's fine, but if you were as open-minded and ego-free as you claim to be, you'd not be so prescriptive in saying what other nations should and shouldn't put in their own ceremonies.



You're the one putting a political or national spin on my point. 

London's OC featuring ideas as esoteric as healthcare plans and hospitals would be no less ridiculous if they were incorporated into LA's games in 1984. 

Poor taste and poor judgment know no limits or national, or city, boundaries.

If LA's organizing committee of today or in the future were to go through this thread, read my posts and shake their head, and say that tricycles and salutes to hospitals are clever and appropriate, I definitely would not be happy about Los Angeles ever hosting an Olympics game again.

As it is, the person who produced Atlanta's much-criticized opening in 1996 was from Los Angeles. He or someone like him could very easily have done the same thing to LA in 1984. Or he or someone like him can do something equally as lame for Los Angeles if the city ever lands the Olympics again in the future.


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

And yet you _still _haven't bothered asking why something _you_ see as esoteric would be included in an event which organisers here obviously knew was going to be seen by c1bn people. Perhaps we have a different perspectives on this to most Americans, and don't see such things as esoteric. Perhaps - just perhaps - that's the point you're missing because your lack of curiosity won't allow you to think outside of your normal frames of reference.

In any case, you're overstating it. That segment for the most part was about children's literature which is no more esoteric or related to the Olympics than a tour through American music, which for some reason you seem fine with. The most obvious reference specifically to the NHS in that segment - if you were unaware that all the performers were NHS staff - was a short illumination lasting no more than a few seconds.

If LA puts something seemingly obscure in its opening ceremony in 2028, I'll try to ask myself why it's important to America or Los Angeles, and why they thought it should be relayed at an Olympic ceremony, rather than being dismissive of it. To be honest, I'd have less of a problem with your point of view, if you weren't trying at the same time to argue that Angelenos are uniquely open to outside ideas. Maybe others are, but I've seen no evidence of it from you.


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Believe me, if that segment were the only moment that made London's OC as ridiculous and both overdone and underdone as it was, I wouldn't have been as underwhelmed - if at all - by the whole thing.

The most important lesson in all this is that it's a poor excuse for a host city or the IOC to say a games won't turn out better or good enough if the budget isn't big enough. 

The London organizing committee poured plenty of money into their event, including the opening and the game's much derided logo.

Any city anywhere in the world can easily make the same mistakes in the future, including Los Angeles if it ever becomes a three-peat host.


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

There really are no "important lessons" here; you're taking your own tastes too seriously and again trying to be too prescriptive about things. If you didn't enjoy London's ceremony that's ok, but many others did. Hopefully there will be other ceremonies you will enjoy more.

I think I'm going to leave it there.


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> If LA puts something seemingly obscure in its opening ceremony in 2028, I'll try to ask myself why it's important to America or Los Angeles,


Beyond obscure or not, as I was watching a video of the OC in 1984, its weak points were it came off too much like a football halftime show, albeit a more elaborate one. Some parts of it also came too close to being reminiscent of an event produced by a Disney theme park. 

Also, the producer didn't bother to have more than one stadium announcer, who only spoke English. The 1984 OC came off as provincial in that regard and seemed more like a typical American college football event. The Olympics as a custom always have the game's 2 official languages, both English and French, spoken by announcers in a stadium or arena.

The music during key segments was also canned, so it gave a cheap quality to the ceremony. The only reason that was partly offset was because there was a large live choir in the stadium.


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> There are no "lessons" here, only you trying to be incredibly prescriptive about everything.


Cone on, it doesn't require some special insight to think moments like this were ill-advised. 

I was annoyed because the format made a mockery of the famous conductor Simon Rattle and turned the also-renowned London Symphony Orchestra into a bit player or straight man. A foil for a comedienne whose idea of great humor is throwing around snot rags. 

In turn, such segments made a joke of the 2012 Olympics OC in general.







I won't say anything about the filmed segment that attempted to make it look like the Queen parachuting into the stadium in tandem with the actor who played James Bond.

LA's Hollywood is sometimes laughed at for pulling off bad self-referential stuff like that, but London decided to one-up even Hollywood in that category.


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

We'll agree to disagree.


----------



## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Perhaps we can move on. Opening ceremonies won't appeal to absolutely everyone and usually filled with cliches, stereotypes, and countries poking fun at themselves. Let's not forget that Vancouver had Michael Buble singing the Maple Leaf Forever dressed as a Mountie and giant inflatable moose/beavers. As long as the home nation is happy with them. That should be paramount to whether it speaks to a foreigner.


----------



## SirAce (Mar 16, 2008)

isaidso said:


> P. As long as the home nation is happy with them. That should be paramount to whether it speaks to a foreigner.



That's why I also say.
Opening ceremonies are always (and that applies to LA as well) the celebration of how the host country/city wants to honor the games, and each local oriented opening is an homage that on the long term defines the great universal mosaic of Olympic Games. 

That's why I get crazy when I read that LA, differently from the other host cities is able to show up the spirit of the games instead of taking only chance of it using the Olympics as a showcase for the city.

That's not true, simply. And it's also an ignorant idea.


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

SirAce said:


> That's why I also say.
> Opening ceremonies are always (and that applies to LA as well) the celebration of how the host country/city wants to honor the games.


It's actually a reflection of the way people *IN* a city's Olympic organizing committee want to celebrate the games. That's why any host city can be equally as good or equally as bad as any other city responsible for the games. Or host country too. It comes down to a roll of the dice and a bit of luck and circumstances.

The world has a stereotype of people in Japan being more likely to be competent and professional in managing major projects or technology, including what goes into an Olympics. But that doesn't guarantee the people *IN* their Olympic organizing committee, based in Tokyo, will be any better than the people managing Rio's games. 

So it shouldn't come as a big surprise that Tokyo 2020 has had various foul ups over the recent past, including underestimating how much their games will cost. Or their planners and architects forgetting that an Olympic cauldron should have been included in the design of Tokyo's new Olympic stadium.

The organizing committee of an Olympics in LA or Paris 2024 could very well botch up things as much as any other city's committee.

The producer of Atlanta's C-quality opening ceremony in 1996, who is based in Los Angeles, could have very easily been chosen by the organizing committee of the LA games in 1984, wrecking one aspect of that event's legacy.


----------



## Saiholmes (Jan 16, 2005)

> IBM TO TRANSFORM LIVE GAME EXPERIENCE AT LAFC’S BANC OF CALIFORNIA STADIUM
> 
> IBM and LAFC announce a new strategic partnership that focuses on leveraging IBM’s innovative converged technology platforms to deliver a world class fan experience at LAFC’s new 22,000-seat Banc of California Stadium. This will be the first MLS soccer-specific stadium partnership for IBM and one of the first professional sports venues to commit to developing such an advanced platform.
> 
> IBM and LAFC are working together to reinvent what it means to be “connected” while in the stadium. This collaboration will provide an enhanced fan experience and will be flexible enough to adapt to new and evolving mobile technologies that seamlessly deliver via the cloud the most innovative and efficient operations for the team, stadium management, business shareholders, fans and others. Set to debut in 2018, the new development, which will bring more than $350 million in private investment to South Los Angeles, will be the first open-air stadium built in Los Angeles in over 30-years.


https://lafc.com/official-launch-pa...-game-experience-new-banc-california-stadium/


----------



## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

SirAce said:


> That's why I also say.
> Opening ceremonies are always (and that applies to LA as well) the celebration of how the host country/city wants to honor the games, and each local oriented opening is an homage that on the long term defines the great universal mosaic of Olympic Games.
> 
> That's why I get crazy when I read that LA, differently from the other host cities is able to show up the spirit of the games instead of taking only chance of it using the Olympics as a showcase for the city.
> ...


I agree that all cities will differ on the specifics of their approaches. But still, secular change is coming as well. 

At first, the modern Olympics were run by old-style oligarchs left over from the days of empire and aristocracy. As we are constantly reminded, the modern Olympics were founded by aristocrats; but it's usually not mentioned that they were run by aristocrats like their own private fiefdoms, with all issues settled based on their ideas of sport as chivalry and noblesse oblige, with commercial or professional elements of the parvenu business classes strictly limited.

Over time, the commercial elements gained influence and the local elites running the games fixated on talking about the wonders of their city/nation. With the advent of truly open mass populism in the last decades I would expect proponents of multi-national social causes to become strong players, as will one-off ideas that are able to gain mass support from general public even for a short time.

An interesting parallel can be seen in what has happened to the House of Savoy, which has gone from aristocracy to decadence to a contemporary connected life-style. Interestingly this entailed a shift toward the streets of LA where entrepreneurism is operating at full throttle and new fortunes being made.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/15/italy-prince-of-venice-emanuele-savoy-food-truck-la

It may take a while but the idea of using the Olympics for aggrandizement of local power interests is going to die. The open society, internet, etc, are taking care of that. The future is open. Even doddering institutions like the Olympics catch-up eventually.


----------



## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

RuFFy said:


> I think there is a misconception and disagreement on how LA does more for the Olympics than the Olympics do for LA. First, imo, the Olympics were a huge catalyst for LA in the 1930's. Literally putting LA on the world map. Also, there were huge infrastructural improvements left in LA after 1984, such as the new at the time Tom Bradley International Terminal and double decking at LAX. International exposure in both instances were great. However, and this is where I disagree or veer off from others, the Movement has been able to grow equally as substantially from LA, in particular with the Athletes Village, it's sponsorship contracts template, the songs, etc. I'm more of the opinion that LA just naturally aligns with the movement, which I believe to be a very unique position to be in, in the case of LA. But, though I believe not as well as LA..., Paris also strongly aligns with the movement. Hense its own diverse history with the movement and its natural growth pattern that allows it infrastructure and venues to keep costs down. In any other case I would say LA has the upper hand in this particular topic. Though I continue to believe that to be truth even in the case of Paris, that upper hand is considerably less than if it were to be Rome, or Budapest.


Hmm, not really, by the 1920's the motion picture industry had started putting LA on the map. The 1932 Olympics was a mere formality....and it wasn't a fluke, LA genuinely loves the Olympic movement.

What do they say? No one loves LA, LA loves you. :lol:


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

2020 is becoming a game of wack-a-mole. 

First they talked about changing the original plans because the costs are soaring. Now they're talking about doing that to show solidarity towards areas ravaged by the Great Earthquake in 2011. All while not saying a peep about radiation contamination?

Forget about the games becoming the opposite of compact. That's nothing. It even makes sense in order to lower the budget. But using people as guinea pigs by placing them in environments that may not be safe?

Will Geiger counters at least be around and used during the games?

This is why any Olympic games is vulnerable to becoming a mess. And Los Angeles, or Paris, or Budapest, are no less susceptible to that than any other host city and country. 




> *Abe-Bach meeting paved way for Tokyo Games as ‘reconstruction symbol’*
> 
> The Yomiuri Shimbun
> 12:06 am, October 24, 2016
> ...


----------



## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

I have a question for all 3 city supporters. What you you do or include in your city's OC? I myself am a little tired of video mapping, ships, carnivals and huge animals.


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Kenni said:


> I have a question for all 3 city supporters. What you you do or include in your city's OC? I myself am a little tired of video mapping, ships, carnivals and huge animals.



All I know is I have a hard time relating to and figuring out things like this:












At least this is easier for me to relate to and figure out:


----------



## nbcee (Mar 2, 2013)

Kenni said:


> I have a question for all 3 city supporters. What you you do or include in your city's OC? I myself am a little tired of video mapping, ships, carnivals and huge animals.


Ours would include horsemen riding around, people taking a bath in spas, giant pulis and many Rubik's cubes. :grass:


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

RobH said:


> And yet you _still _haven't bothered asking why something _you_ see as esoteric would be included in an event which organisers here obviously knew was going to be seen by c1bn people. Perhaps we have a different perspectives on this to most Americans, and don't see such things as esoteric. Perhaps - just perhaps - that's the point you're missing because your lack of curiosity won't allow you to think outside of your normal frames of reference.
> 
> In any case, you're overstating it. That segment for the most part was about children's literature which is no more esoteric or related to the Olympics than a tour through American music, which for some reason you seem fine with. The most obvious reference specifically to the NHS in that segment - if you were unaware that all the performers were NHS staff - was a short illumination lasting no more than a few seconds.
> 
> If LA puts something seemingly obscure in its opening ceremony in 2028, I'll try to ask myself why it's important to America or Los Angeles, and why they thought it should be relayed at an Olympic ceremony, rather than being dismissive of it. To be honest, I'd have less of a problem with your point of view, if you weren't trying at the same time to argue that Angelenos are uniquely open to outside ideas. Maybe others are, but I've seen no evidence of it from you.


Whatever Rob said, he's an ok dude. But in all seriousness I think Londons Opening Ceremony was good. I enjoyed it and while nowhere near as fascinating as Beijing I certainly didn't feel cheated. It's no secret that the Chinese pulled out all the stops and invested heavily in their show. London was an excellent Opening Ceremony in my opinion. 

Rio had a lot smaller shoes to fill and I felt the cost cutting measures showed substantially. I can appreciate the overall concept but the execution, imho, left a lot to be desired. With me, and I can't speak for others, I felt a lackluster opening ceremony set a tone that carried out though the games. I don't know if it's because American Audiences, or just myself, are able to better connect. I felt more joy and eagerness to watch the London games. 

However, in all fairness, the negative tone set in with Sochi. It might be important to add that I may have had high expectations with Rio in that I understood the culture to be exotic and more sultry, both of which I didn't feel were projected well through TV.


----------



## SirAce (Mar 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> I agree that all cities will differ on the specifics of their approaches. But still, secular change is coming as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It looks like you deranged from the point. 
Except for Athens, organized by aristocrats as a divertissement also enjoyed by local population, some of the others early Olympics were just a disastrous side project of expos, like San Louis or Paris 1. 
In the late thirties became a national and political pride.
After the war, until Munich, probably there was the best Olympic season ever. No excessive commerciality, with cities that changed their shape and public image while respecting the games offering the most local and hence Olympic international spirit without the excess of nationalism or grandeur of post Munich.

All the rest of your post honestly is quite out of topic/focus. 
Savoy family is a shame since the 19th century and has been involving in recycling itself in trade and commerce since they don't have anymore a kingdom and they need money. Other noble families throughout Europe have still a monarchy to stay after, hence they are not forced to behave like Savoy. I don't see connections with the overall talk on the Olympics.
I see obviously a stronger intervention from new technologies commerce in future Olympics since economy has changed.
But if your reading of this phenomena is a future betrayal of the glocal Olympic spirit then there would be only a solution. End of Olympics and relocation in Greece with total expense cover by IOC as it was in ancient times.


----------



## SirAce (Mar 16, 2008)

Ioannes_ said:


> loving, affectionate, players from France, especially Mathieu Valbuena and Bencema ....
> 
> That said, the proposal *Paris 2024 is empty and the world does not deserve some cold games as their Euro 2016, the worst of the latest editions because of the hosts and fans of countries that buy World Cup, Olympic Games and Euro.
> 
> Los Angeles is a city with true Olympic spirit*.





pesto said:


> I think what some are feeling is the same as the message of the video: the feeling that LA is raw, dynamic, diverse, exploding in your face and that this openness creates beauty and excitement in the eyes of those open to change and inventing their own future.
> 
> *In major European cities, you look at something extravagant from the 17th century; in LA you look at what you yourself are going to participate in creating in the mid-21st century. Without a massive history that you know you can never repeat hanging over you. *
> 
> LA is not for everyone; in fact, the more formal education you have the less you are likely to like it. The locals have no problem breaking all the rules and trying something different. Pedigrees and history count less than what can you do for me (or with me) that let's me fly.


Ladies & Gentlemen, 

here are the wonderful, extraordinary, enlightened, unbreakable

PRO LOS ANGELES TROLLS! 

:lol:

(It's also fair to say that most of the others LA supporters here are reasonable and passionate persons...)


----------



## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

I can understand how the argument being made about LA can be construed as trolling. But I don't think what they're saying is off. The message is very clear. "The New LA." There is something about youth, and being creative and connected that is the underlying theme of LA's bid. And while some won't agree LA, and to a greater extent California embrace the new. There is an optimism and a global reach that is very specific to LA that strengthens those claims. Hanging over Paris head is a load of history. It's been a city that for centuries now has been a global brand. LA is probably just about to clear its first as a global brand, maybe? And the state of California perhaps just another 1/2 century past that? But looking forward global brands that are at the cutting edge of technology that drive culture, especially in youth and technology, and to a lesser extend media and music, are centered around California. In my opinion, in this argument, California absolutely has the wind at its back, especially when compared to Paris. But that's just opinion.


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

I thought after Rio, the IOC would find smooth sailing with the Tokyo 2020 organizing committee. But I made the mistake of forgetting that positive assumptions made about a host country and city don't necessarily translate into what can be expected out of the people running a specific city's Olympic committee.

Yoshiro Mori may be not much better for 2020 what Carlos Nuzman was to 2016 or what Sebastian Coe was to 2012.








The main stumbling block for LA 2024 is that most IOC members, certainly the older ones, will still think of 1984 as being not long enough ago to believe LA's bid committee deserves a threepeat in 2024. 

As to whether LA 2024 would repeat the mistakes of Rio and London, and what seems to be arising in Tokyo, that's open to question. 

If the top people in the LA committee think London 2012 was a fantastic games from A to Z, I don't think they're going to protect the legacy of LA 1984 or 1932. If so, it will be best if Los Angeles doesn't threepeat.




> *LA 2024 pledges to involve eSports to connect Millennials to Olympic Games*
> 
> Kendra Andrews Friday November 4th, 2016
> 
> ...





> *BREAKING NEWS: Three Olympians Announced as the 2017 Tournament of Roses® Grand Marshals*
> 
> Olympians Allyson Felix, Greg Louganis & Janet Evans are the 2017 Tournament of Roses® Grand Marshals
> 
> ...


----------



## SirAce (Mar 16, 2008)

RuFFy said:


> I can understand how the argument being made about LA can be construed as trolling. But I don't think what they're saying is off. The message is very clear. "The New LA." There is something about youth, and being creative and connected that is the underlying theme of LA's bid. And while some won't agree LA, and to a greater extent California embrace the new. There is an optimism and a global reach that is very specific to LA that strengthens those claims. Hanging over Paris head is a load of history. It's been a city that for centuries now has been a global brand. LA is probably just about to clear its first as a global brand, maybe? And the state of California perhaps just another 1/2 century past that? But looking forward global brands that are at the cutting edge of technology that drive culture, especially in youth and technology, and to a lesser extend media and music, are centered around California. In my opinion, in this argument, California absolutely has the wind at its back, especially when compared to Paris. But that's just opinion.


I respect your opinion since it's exposed in a more "relaxed" way.

But still, some of the messages that the _twintrolls ©_ are trying to state as facts are just born from ignorance.

Paris has been cultural and political capital of the western world more than once, in the 17th century, in the 19th century and in the early 20th. In the mean time, periods of decadence. Up as today is a vibrant and young city, together with Berlin one the most active in terms of young cultural production.
Now Rome has retired but only in the last 100 years Rome passed more than once to be an avantgarde city (1955-65) to a decayed one and then again vibrant with cultural seeds and startups everywhere (1995-2005). 

In this sense, affirmations like 



> In major European cities, you look at something extravagant from the 17th century


are just stupid. Plain stupid. And ignorant. 

On the other hand, other sentences like



> in LA you look at what you yourself are going to participate in creating in the mid-21st century. *Without a massive history that you know you can never repeat hanging over you.*


Oh c'mon, this guy never left LA apparently. Surely he never went to Paris, Milan, London or Shangai, Beijing or Mumbay, Seoul or Tokyo, Kuala Lumpur or Barcellona or if he did he just went to seek for McDonald's or the nearest Apple Store :lol:

Those cities are reinventing themselves continuously alternating innovation and stasis. Some are younger, some older. All very competitive and creative. 
To state that, being LA a young/recent city is a big chance to be "21st century'sh" creative, is just ignorant. And arrogant.

Other affirmations like 



> Los Angeles is a city with true Olympic spirit.


 after bashing Paris for low atmosphere just qualifies (very badly) their writer...

Finally I don't really understand how can you say that LA is still searching for a brand while Paris had it for centuries.

That's simply not true. In terms of brand, Paris one is quite recent and it's mostly dating from the 1920s, the Belle Epoque period. Part of it is coming from the Decadents period, few decades before. Paris, as you see today, the Ville Lumiere, was basically created between 1860s and 1930s.

This vision of Europe as a land stuck in the 17th century is really naive. Then China is stuck in the Qin period? :lol: And Mexico in Toltec period? C'mon!  

LA brand, as seen from Italian point of view, is mostly coming from Hollywood, hence 1940s/50s. Clark Gable and Greta Garbo. I don't pretend it's the definitive view on LA. I know it's a partial one, but still, LA is quite a fixed brand, at least as seen from outside USA. Don't pretend it's one of the few innovative and "free minded" cities in the world. It's just one of the many. Surely an important one. 

Maybe Olympic Games will help reinvent the image of the city. Something that is also true for all the candidates of Olympics in general...


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

This is the first general video released by the Paris 2024 committee, at least involving their Youtube account, and was posted back in February:






There are some non-Paris, non-France scenes in there, possibly even a few filmed in LA?


This is the one for Budapest 2024 and was posted to their Youtube site in April. I think it's catchier than the one made for Paris 2024:







Los Angeles 2024 seems to have been the more active of the 3 bid cities when it comes to general presentation videos. This one was released last year in September:







This was released in February and is the most city-specific of the 3 LA 2024 videos:







This one was released several few weeks ago in September:







There has been something off about the Paris 2024 presentation. When the second bid books were released not long ago, the websites of LA 2024 and Budapest 2024 contained links to copies of those books on the day of the IOC's deadline. But the Paris 2024 site had yet to be updated and didn't contain access to at least their second bid book until some time had passed. 

However, they have way more videos posted to their Youtube page than the other 2 cities. But many of them seem more like quantity rather than quality. Again, there is a sense of things being slightly off in the way the Paris 2024 committee is handling their presentations.


----------



## Nacre (May 9, 2016)

californiadreams said:


> Again, there is a sense of things being slightly off in the way the Paris 2024 committee is handling their presentations.


It's too bad Paris is not in California, where all of these things would be transformed into superlative features instead.


----------



## pierolol (Apr 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> There has been something off about the Paris 2024 presentation. When the second bid books were released not long ago, the websites of LA 2024 and Budapest 2024 contained links to copies of those books on the day of the IOC's deadline. But the Paris 2024 site had yet to be updated and didn't contain access to at least their second bid book until some time had passed.
> 
> However, they have way more videos posted to their Youtube page than the other 2 cities. But many of them seem more like quantity rather than quality. Again, there is a sense of things being slightly off in the way the Paris 2024 committee is handling their presentations.


Paris is building a different digital strategy more based on social networks like Instagram or Facebook. It's a more efficient strategy than to build a costly website.

For example during Rio olympic games, Paris 2024 shared a video build with thousands of photos and videos of Paris shared on social media. Paris is the most "shared" city in social medias.

"#ShareParis"





Last week, they are sharing a lot of new videos where you can see different spot of the city in a 360° experience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ8oqCAN6-g


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Nacre said:


> It's too bad Paris is not in California, where all of these things would be transformed into superlative features instead.


Even if you were being serious, your assumption would be no less wrong or naive. 

You think all the people, including from around the world, who looked at the 2020 bid by Tokyo and originally concluded those games were guaranteed to be well handled because they involve the Japanese, and Tokyoites in particular, weren't making a mistake? That even now they don't realize that a host city is only as good as the people on a city's Olympic committee, particularly the person who's the committee's president?

California, at least indirectly, can be blamed for one major reason why the last Olympics in the US were such a dud. The person who handled Atlanta 1996's ceremonies was a TV-movie producer based in Los Angeles.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pierolol said:


> Last week, they are sharing a lot of new videos where you can see different spot of the city in a 360° experience.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ8oqCAN6-g



I noticed those posted to the Paris 2024 Youtube page. There are also a lot of other videos about mainly individual athletes who are associated with France. The presentation right now comes off as both too much and too little. 

The committee would be making their case better - strictly based on my own opinion, of course - if they had posted videos that give an overview of Paris and the Olympics instead of 360-degree views of the city. 

Their Youtube format and way of featuring things at this moment remind me of all the recent Olympic ceremonies that are overly gimmicky and both overdone and underdone.


----------



## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^
^^

^^
Who cares anyway when MY dear Mormon/pioneer choir is singing the name of Jesus & the glorious east-west coasts stuff shifty:; :cheers2:




parcdesprinces said:


> [...]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

I don't know about the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, but we in California have to take some responsibility and blame for 1996. 

This version of what can be called bad Cirque du Soleil was due to the Atlanta 1996 committee probably assuming someone who lives in Los Angeles and has experience based on his years working there would be a reliable source of getting the job done properly. 








That doesn't even include the segment that involved cheerleaders and pickup trucks.

Sorry, Atlanta 1996, but you deserved better. Probably would have done just as well if you depended on someone not from California but someone closer to your section of the US. Maybe someone from around New York or Nashville. Or even Salt Lake City.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> y and blame for 1996.
> 
> This version of what can be called bad Cirque du Soleil was due to:


Albertville '92 yes(Decouflé):



parcdesprinces said:


> [...]
> 
> PS: :angel::angel:
> 
> ...


:runaway:


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

parcdesprinces said:


> Alberville '92 yes(Decouflé):
> 
> 
> 
> :runaway:



I've never seen most of that before. 

I do recall watching a portion of the event when the athletes were marching, or wandering, into the stadium and the American TV announcer saying something about the placard bearers wearing those plastic bubbles, which are a bit less goofy than Rio's tricycles. That was around the time I switched the channel.

I can't believe how bad all these Olympic ceremonies have been.

Everything is off. Timing is off, sequencing is off. The jets are cool, but then they fly over again and become overkill. The costumes look ridiculous. The people on the field are reading way too much script and end up monotonous and uninteresting.

What's with all these producers being fans of bad Cirque du Soleil, bad avante garde? Yes, those are French words, no less.

If anyone from the Paris 2024 committee were to watch these videos, or the ones from 1996, or Rio or London - or things like Barcelona 1992's fashion runway show that broke out in the middle of Olympic ceremony - and shake their head the way I do, I'd have confidence they'll probably do a much better job in hosting the games.

If anyone from Los Angeles 2024 were to watch these same videos and think and say they're great, please give up right now and hope successors to you in 2028 or 2044 will get a clue.


----------



## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Bonus:



parcdesprinces said:


> *#StadeIndochinois*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know, nothing new in terms of...well.... but Camille St-Saens still wins!!!


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

parcdesprinces said:


> but Camille St-Saens still wins!!!


If St-Saens can be brought back to life and given the task of managing the ceremonies for Paris 2024, he'll probably return some sanity to that aspect of the Olympics.

Games like Albertville 1992 are bizarre even when it comes to something as basic as how people enter or exit the field. 

French President Mitterrand walked onto the field holding the hand of the young woman wearing the goofy costume. After his bit in that segment of the ceremony was over, he then resumed holding the girl's hand and strolled off the field. 

Was that his granddaughter? Girlfriend? I don't think so. 

I believe that was the producer's idea of an official Olympic escort for a dignitary at the opening. However, maybe I'm wrong. Whoever she was, it's just another example of the way all these Olympic presentations sure do come off strange. They sure are all into bad avante garde.












Although I guess things like Rio's tricycles are even worse.


----------



## CaliforniaJones (Apr 9, 2009)

Wow.
The battle between Paris and Los Angeles is going on.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> Was that his granddaughter? Girlfriend? I don't think so.
> 
> I believe that was the producer's idea of an official Olympic escort for a dignitary at the opening. However, maybe I'm wrong. Whoever she was, it's just another example of the way all these Olympic presentations sure do come off strange. They sure are all into bad avante garde.


Actually she was just a random little girl from Savoy who had been selected to sing La Marseillaise (a capella).







Here she is 20 years later : ledauphine.com/savoie/elle-est-devenue-celle-qui-tenait-la-main-de-mitterrand


Oh and I agree with you, the Decouflé's Albertville ceremonies were weird (and indeed "avant-gardiste" not in the best way), that's what I wanted to pointed out when I first mentioned them above.
I personally tend to prefer more traditional ones. 
That said, one thing I liked during the Albertville opening were the (intended and scripted) puns the host made with the countries' names during the parade of nations... I imagine they thought "Well, parade of nations is always boring, so let's do this in a funny way" :laugh:


----------



## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

I was impressed with Atlanta.....It was a great Ceremony. The Allegory of the south, the section titled "Summertime" was the best part. With gospel and southern choirs was truly great. I see it as the sign of that time, the 90s. Same with previous ceremonies. Come on. Not the best, but great for that generation. 

also loved the William Faulkner, MLK and Mark Twain quotes read out loud by DARTH Vader (James Earl Jones).  Don't hate on the ATL! lol

I love that gospel song, "Glory Glory, Alleluia, Glory Glory, Alleluia".........Its stuck in my head. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Summer_Olympics_opening_ceremony

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Three members of LA 2024 Athletes’ Advisory Commission handed roles in New Year celebrations*

http://www.insidethegames.biz/artic...mission-handed-roles-in-new-year-celebrations

Los Angeles 2024 representatives Janet Evans, Allyson Felix and Greg Louganis have been announced as the grand marshals of the 2017 edition of the annual New Year celebration in Pasadena, the Tournament of Roses.


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

parcdesprinces said:


> I personally tend to prefer more traditional ones.


I hope you watched the video I posted a few days ago about the London 2012 Olympics logo. 

One of the panelists on the show in that video said even school kids would have done a better job in creating a logo. The London 2012 committee instead hired "experts" at a cost of something like $800,000. 

I agree with you about the format used in Albertville where puns were a part of the entrance of the athletes. That segment of all Olympic games becomes very monotonous and, certainly for summer games, way too long. So if a host city wants to change things in instances like that, that makes sense.

If Paris 2024 were to hire you instead of an "expert" for their opening and closing, they probably would do just as well as what happened in Rio, London, Atlanta, Albertville, etc.


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

redspork02 said:


> I was impressed with Atlanta.....It was a great Ceremony.


I obviously don't agree and would say it was one of the major reasons those games left a taste of being a letdown. However, those ceremonies can be called great at least compared with what was done in Rio. They also at least weren't as ridiculously overdone and bizarre as London 2012.


----------



## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

SirAce said:


> Ladies & Gentlemen,
> 
> here are the wonderful, extraordinary, enlightened, unbreakable
> 
> ...


LOL. Well only two trolls out of 20M isn't bad.

Care to point out anything I have said that isn't accurate and on-topic (excluding a response trying to clarify another posters comments)? I've said numerous times that Paris, Rome and Budapest are beautiful cities and could put on wonderful Olympics. Have you said anything like that, or not so much?

They still ARE great cities but it is a commonplace that LA is raw, developing, a place to re-invent yourself without the weight of history; a bustling, noisy city with no "culture". Everyone from Baudrillard to Werner Herzog to Frank Gehry has noted this. In NY it's practically a mantra.

By contrast, some European cities have more of a reputation for being deeply weighed down by histories of fading grandeur, existential dread, malaise, ennui, sangfroid. Where the French might say "every existing thing is born without reason, prolongs itself out of weakness, and dies by chance.", the LA resident is likely to respond "wow, that's heavy shit, dude; but, hey, surf's up!"


----------



## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

SirAce said:


> I respect your opinion since it's exposed in a more "relaxed" way.
> 
> But still, some of the messages that the _twintrolls ©_ are trying to state as facts are just born from ignorance.
> 
> ...


LOL. You’re too much. Greta Garbo as a Hollywood icon. What a combination of ignorance and arrogance. And as for the McDonald’s comment, I’m more of a Dunkin’ Donuts guy myself. :lol:

Since you’re becoming even more snotty, let me comment a bit. Of course, every city is full of people who think in different ways; there are no blacks and whites. But having said that, Europe is universally understood to be grounded in its historical experience (see the Rome Olympic bid, which constantly referenced its antiquity and the Paris bid which can’t stop talking about de Coubertin, who was born in the 1860's).

I actually just got back from two cities you mention, Barcelona and Berlin. I didn’t go to Sagrada Familia this trip but you may find it interesting that it was based on Catalan Gothic and the historical art of Catalonia (Gaudi said so). Likewise for the work of the rest of the Modernisme crowd. Busquets i Jane specifically looked at historical works in designing his furniture and décor. Practically all were working out of intense Catalan nationalism. (Btw, you might check out the Museu del Dessiny or various other design museums for some background on this, including the influence of Catalan history on décor, painting and literature.) 

As for Berlin, probably the most influential German artist of the post-war era is Georg Baselitz. His work is outstanding but he could NEVER get away from the burden of WWII, the division and authoritarian control of Germany. The weight of history.

I also hit Bilbao, which is a bit different. The city fathers and Guggenheim NY hired a guy from LA. The result: a work that looks like it dropped out of space yesterday; rooted only in the land, the human experience and the idea that anything is possible. The approach that the learned in LA: that great art is genetic, it grows out of the land, the material and the human experience. History by contrast is not genetic, it is coincidental, and can be escaped. If you want to.


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## szaasz (Feb 24, 2009)

Budapest 2024 Monday announced that nine leaders representing Hungarian society are now ambassadors for the Hungarian Olympic Games bid. 

"Ambassador Gyorgy Habsburg, TV personality and journalist, believes that the Olympic Games represent a great opportunity not only for Hungary but for the entire Central European region. He said, “with the right plan and concept for an Olympic Games, then the whole region can benefit greatly”, adding that he believes the preparation of the Budapest bid is excellent based on his personal experience of Budapest 2024 initiatives such as the House of Hungary in Rio."

"Bid ambassador Christopher Mattheisen, CEO of Magyar Telekom, added, “the facilities are mostly already here, with just a few additional venues to build. It’s misleading to expect that an Olympic Games can be a profitable investment in two or three years – we need to take a twenty to thirty year perspective. Looking ahead in this way, I challenge Hungarians to dream big and believe in the dream”.

The new ambassadors, according to a Budapest 2024 statement:

*János Csák: *former Ambassador to London, economist and sociologist; received the Hungarian Order of Merit Cross in 2010 in recognition of his work and community activities.
*Tamás Fellegi: *lawyer and political scientist; former Minister of National Development and Minister without Portfolio.
*György Habsburg: *Austro-Hungarian journalist, politician and public figure; acted as the President of Red Cross in Hungary; Hungary’s Ambassador Extraordinary to the European Parliament in 1996.
*Professor János Martonyi:* former Foreign Minister, jurist, diplomat and lawyer; winner of the Széchenyi prize this year for contributions to his academic field.
*Christopher Mattheisen:* Hungarian-American businessman and economist; Chief Executive Officer of Magyar Telekom Plc, the largest telecommunications company in Hungary.
*Andrea Rost*: opera singer and honorary citizen of Budapest; winner of both the Kossuth and Liszt Awards for her outstanding achievements in culture and the arts.
*Attila Szalay-Berzeviczy:* economist and businessman; Managing Director of the Raiffeisen Bank International AG; former co-Chairman of the Hungarian Fencing Federation; founder of the Movement for the Budapest Olympics (BOM) – a civil group that has been working since 2005 to bring the Olympic Games to Hungary.
*Fruzsina Szép*: Berlin Lollapalooza Festival Director for the third year running; Artistic Director at Lollapalooza for six years; board member of the Yourope European Festival Association; honorary Associate Professor.
*Sándor Zwack:* Director of Zwack Unicum, one of Hungary’s oldest companies and producer of uniquely Hungarian herb liqueurs.










http://gamesbids.com/eng/featured/budapest-2024-gets-support-from-nine-elite-ambassadors/


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## Vikusz (Oct 12, 2009)

House of Hungary in Rio during the Olympics:


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

Well... I don't want to get too much into politics on this thread but... it looks like Trump won. Like him or not, you can go ahead and cross Los Angeles off the board. We've proven we're a nation of Brexiters, and the IOC will treat us as such.


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## Pierre de Coubertin (Sep 25, 2016)

aquamaroon said:


> Well... I don't want to get too much into politics on this thread but... it looks like Trump won. Like him or not, you can go ahead and cross Los Angeles off the board. We've proven we're a nation of Brexiters, and the IOC will treat us as such.


Don't you believe in the miracle of LA 2024, althought the victory of Trump?

Should we say that Paris has won the Games for 2024?


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

^^ My friend I think with the latest news... you can wrap the Olympics up in a bow the colors of the _Tricolore_


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

Anyways... congrats to our French friends on this board! As long as you can avoid voting in a Marie Le Pen, you should have the 2024 games no questions asked :lol:


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## Pierre de Coubertin (Sep 25, 2016)

Aquamaroon yesterday I read that LA in the 2 horse race with Paris was ahead of Paris (38% - 32%). Last Budapest with 19%. 

Are you sure a drop out of LA? No hope?


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

^^ Oh no the race isn't over from an official perspective, make no mistake LA 2024 will continue as if nothing has happened and they will push through this. However, the IOC will look upon the American political landscape and see a leadership that claims Mexicans are "rapists and criminals" AND a leadership that wants to boycott all Muslims from entering the USA. And they, "they" being the IOC made up of members from the Latin and Islamic world, will be in no mood to reward the US for its xenophobic, isolationist behavior. And LA will lose... in the first round I think. A shame as I really wanted to bring my daughter to the Opening Ceremonies of the LA 2024 games , but it's just not gonna happen.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

The members of the IOC would best be more concerned about all the ongoing talk of scandal, drug doping and bloated budgets hovering over themselves and the games they sponsor than whether the politics of a bid city's country are this way or that. 

The IOC already has more than enough to handle with the politics of Tokyo 2020 and signs of there being an upcoming struggle to downsize the budget. 

Then, too, the streets of Paris have recently been giving off a whiff of misery and chaos. However, Los Angeles with its own history of such things in 1965 and 1992, and the ongoing extremes of Skid Row, can't afford to be smug.

In the meantime, the sideline matter of very misguided, uninspiring ceremonies do continue to be sort of the watermark of the modern Olympics at this moment in its history.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

^^ Thank you for the enthusiasm! But... I think it's over for us. (I say this as one of the biggest LA 2024 supporters on the board). I'd love to be proven wrong...but I just don't see it.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

aquamaroon said:


> A shame as I really wanted to bring my daughter to the Opening Ceremonies of the LA 2024 games



Actually, if they were to turn out similar to Rio 2016 or Atlanta 1996, or London 2012, she wouldn't be missing out on much.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

aquamaroon said:


> ^^ Thank you for the enthusiasm! But... I think it's over for us. (I say this as one of the biggest LA 2024 supporters on the board). I'd love to be proven wrong...but I just don't see it.


I have mixed emotions about LA hosting the games in 2024, mainly because the French would be really furious at and resentful of Los Angeles if it were to win the games. It's not like Paris last hosted the games in the 1980s or even the 1950s. I think that's going to factor in the decisions of IOC members more than anything else. 

The election today may play a part in the attitudes those members bring to next year's vote, but only a small part.


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## Pierre de Coubertin (Sep 25, 2016)

But Aquamaroon remember what was the situation of Beijing before the election with the human rights and won.

And think that Europe is going to vote LA for the possibility to have the edition 2028.

So the match is long again.


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## Brenn86 (Mar 25, 2016)

Pierre de Coubertin said:


> But Aquamaroon remember what was the situation of Beijing before the election with the human rights and won.
> 
> *And think that Europe is going to vote LA for the possibility to have the edition 2028.*
> 
> So the match is long again.


Are you sure ? because except Italy with Milan and Russia, i can not see which european countries want and/or can host the 2028 games.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

aquamaroon said:


> Well... I don't want to get too much into politics on this thread but... it looks like Trump won. Like him or not, you can go ahead and cross Los Angeles off the board.


Honestly I don't think electing that dear Donald popcorn will change anything in the 2024 race.


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## Targaryen (Jul 4, 2016)

Pierre de Coubertin said:


> Aquamaroon yesterday I read that LA in the 2 horse race with Paris was ahead of Paris (38% - 32%). Last Budapest with 19%.
> 
> Are you sure a drop out of LA? No hope?



I think it is not the time to bring up poll results after what happened to Clinton vs Trump predictions and also I believe that your poll (38 -32 %) was created in the USA - for me that makes it irrelevant immediatley.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Im also a LA2024 booster here and I consider our status as diminished. Not over, but diminished, bruised. Im hoping and rooting for my city! I will still support the LA 2024 bid but, Im not sure where my country is headed at this moment!?? The federal government is not involved in this bid anyways, only to provide security. But the politics and rhetoric are hard to ignore.

Paris, Don't mess this up!


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Kenni said:


> If measure "M" passes.


Not "If", but "where's the shovel!" Measure M in Los Angeles has passed. 
This is a plus for the bid! $120 Billion in Public Transportation funds.

YAY!

Oh yeah, and recreational marijuana is also now legal. (not federal).


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

^^

That was the best news of the night!! :banana: (definitely "banana" emoji worthy news :lol

So while L.A.'s hopes were badly bruised by the election, the Measure M result was very good news for the bid. With this passing this now means that if LA gets the 2024 Olympics:

- There will be subway service from the Athlete's village at UCLA all the way to the downtown Olympic Park
- There will be rail connection from the LAX airport to Downtown, West LA, Hollywood and Burbank
- All of the major sites (and pretty much all of the standalone venues) will be connected by rail and public transport.

So the infrastructure for the bid is in place and getting even stronger. Now we see if the bid can push against the political headwinds.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

LA 2024 is about to find out how a Donald Trump presidency will affect Los Angeles' Olympic bid 

http://www.latimes.com/sports/olympics/la-sp-trump-olympics-la2024-20161109-story.html

https://la24.org/media/119-presidential-election

*"LA 2024 congratulates President-elect Donald J. Trump and appreciates his longstanding support of the Olympic movement in the United States.
We strongly believe the Olympics and LA 2024 transcend politics and can help unify our diverse communities and our world.

LA 2024 has achieved 88% public support in the latest poll and strong bipartisan government support at the local, state and federal level. We look forward to working with president-elect Trump and his administration across the federal government to deliver a "new Games for a new Era" that will benefit and inspire the entire Olympic movement in 2024."*


_By graham dunbar, ap sports writer

·LAUSANNE, Switzerland — Nov 9, 2016, 2:20 PM ET_

Donald Trump's election as U.S. president has the potential to influence Los Angeles' chances of hosting the 2024 Olympics. *For better or worse.*

Some International Olympic Committee members — who will choose between Los Angeles, Paris and Budapest, Hungary, in a vote next September — cited possible pros and cons on Wednesday of Trump's role in the American bid.

As a polarizing presidential candidate, Trump's words on Muslims, Mexicans and other issues could have offended some of the 98 IOC members from around the world who will select the host city.

"It may have," the IOC's longest-serving member, Dick Pound of Canada, told The Associated Press.

At the same time, Pound did not rule out the possibility that Trump could help win votes if he travels to Lima, Peru, in September to pitch the Los Angeles bid in person to the IOC ahead of the secret ballot.

"If he is there, and evidently he is someone who feeds off his audience, there is no reason to think he can't work this audience as well," Pound said.

South African IOC member Sam Ramsamy, whose country has been described by Trump as a "very dangerous mess," dismissed any lingering effect with 10 months left before the 2024 Olympic vote.

"He has been rude to everybody," Ramsamy told the AP. "I don't believe it will affect bidding in any way."

In a statement Wednesday congratulating Trump, the Los Angeles 2024 bid committee said the Olympics can "transcend politics and can help unify our diverse communities and our world."

Citing 88 percent support for its bid, the committee pointed to strong bipartisan support at all levels of government.

"We look forward to working closely with President-elect Trump and his administration across the federal government" to deliver a successful Olympics, the statement said.

IOC President Thomas Bach offered a brief statement to the AP on Trump's election.

*"Let me congratulate President-elect Trump on his victory and wish him all the best for his term in office for all the people of the United States and of the world," he said.*

Swiss IOC member Rene Fasel suggested that if Trump spoke offensively during the presidential race, it was a tactic to woo voters that worked.

"You saw his speech today and it's already a different man," Fasel said, citing Trump's first public address as president-elect which sought to be more inclusive.

While Trump has little track record with the Olympic movement, his opponent, Hillary Clinton, was a supporter of New York's failed bid for the 2012 Games and has attended several Olympics. She was First Lady when the U.S. last hosted the Summer Games — in Atlanta in 1996.

President Barack Obama went to the IOC vote in Copenhagen in 2009 to support Chicago's bid for the 2016 Olympics. Chicago was still eliminated in the first round, with the games awarded to Rio de Janeiro.

Clinton's presidential campaign has some close ties to Los Angeles bid leaders. Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti is a Democrat who spoke at the Democratic Party convention in July which formally nominated Clinton. Bid chairman Casey Wasserman was also a prominent Clinton backer.

Garcetti acknowledged in an AP interview in August during the Rio de Janeiro Olympics that some IOC members could be turned off by a Trump victory.

"I think for some of the IOC members they would say, 'Wait a second, can we go to a country like that, where we've heard things that we take offense to?" Garcetti said then.

Garcetti remains more important to the bid than Trump, according to American IOC executive board member Anita DeFrantz.

*"It's the city that hosts the games, and it's the mayor that signs the documents. It is not the president," DeFrantz told The AP in Lausanne on Wednesday.*

Pound believes Los Angeles leaders will urgently want to meet with Trump to see if he is "an enthusiastic supporter of this venture or not."

"Your most important campaign is at home," Pound said, suggesting that IOC voters and Olympic sports leaders can be swayed closer to election day. "The roadshow only happens in the last few months."

Before that final stretch of campaigning, the city's biggest rival —* Paris — could have its own domestic politics to explain*.

*In May, France elects a president in a contest many predict will include far-right candidate Marine Le Pen among the two candidates in a second round of voting.*


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## Pierre de Coubertin (Sep 25, 2016)

Targaryen said:


> I think it is not the time to bring up poll results after what happened to Clinton vs Trump predictions


Ops, you 're right absolutely.
Aquamaroon could write the Whole list of metro extension in LA planned for 2024 in chronological order?

Thx so much.


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## Pierre de Coubertin (Sep 25, 2016)

Brenn86 said:


> Are you sure ? because except Italy with Milan and Russia, i can not see which european countries want and/or can host the 2028 games.


Someone suggested a dutch bid (e.g. Amsterdam) and a German one (Berlin).

I think 2024 will be in Paris and 2028 I'd like to see Dubai.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Well, I think the US did pretty well on its politics as entertainment. Great surprise ending; never saw that coming. Even tossing in predictions of the collapse of the stock markets and then having it go slightly up instead was nice, kind of puts everything back in perspective. Politics is entertainment; families and work are real life.

Let's see what Hollande, Juppe, Sarkosy, Le Pin, Macron, Valls et al. can do.


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## Rekarte (Mar 28, 2008)

Budapest is too small for a Olympic Game


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

Pierre de Coubertin said:


> Ops, you 're right absolutely.
> Aquamaroon could write the Whole list of metro extension in LA planned for 2024 in chronological order?
> 
> Thx so much.


Sure thing, it's a not a list but here is the Metro Map from the "VoteYesOnM" website:










If you look at the bottom of the map you will see the current timeline for the completion of these new rail lines. One note, it lists the "Purple" line, i.e. the subway that goes to UCLA, as being completed in 2026, but were LA to get the games there are plans in place to push that completion date to 2024, a few months before the Olympics.

(And with a little federal money we can get this all completed much sooner! but with THIS government... hno


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## MoreOrLess (Feb 17, 2005)

The IOC claiming Trump would be a problem seem pretty hypocritical when Orban is the alternative.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

The fact both a summer and winter Olympics are going to be held, or will have been held, in the same city, Beijing, located in a nation that's hardly a paragon of free, open, good government, should make members of the IOC pause when determining who meets their political litmus test or not.

As for another instance of political spin being aimed at the Olympics, the producer of the opening ceremonies of London 2012 purposefully omitted during a salute to past games any mention of Los Angeles 1984 and Atlanta 1996. He presumably judged those two games as somehow not pure enough. 

But he then went on to cheapen the Olympic image in his own way, with a very hackneyed presentation full of an overly commercialized pat on the head to Britain's entertainment industry.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

I'm not sure your little poster conspiracy actually compares in any way to having just elected a racist and misogynist president with a homophobic VP. LA24/USOC officials made a magnificently unsubtle u-turn about their views on Trump yesterday and how his Presidency might affect the bid. I think we both know their earlier views were the more genuine. Things have got harder for your bid, sadly through no fault of those working for it or supporting it.

You're right though about the 'morals' of the IOC. Maybe your own officials are wrong and Trump might not be a problem. After all, Putin proved not to be (at the bidding stage anyway). However, the fact that the argument now seems to be _"well, the IOC has gone to places with questionable leaders before"_ rather than _"look, we don't have this problem"_ is quite a sad indictment.


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## Vikusz (Oct 12, 2009)

Rekarte said:


> Budapest is too small for a Olympic Game


Thats why the IOC released the Agenda 2020. Not just Budapest, but the whole country will organise the games. And by the way 2 million inhabitans +1million suburb population is not a small city. For example Barcelona and Athens also could organise the Olympics, without the Agenda 2020.


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## CxIxMaN (Jun 12, 2009)

I don't care who is the President of the US is as long as LA gets the 2024 Olympics

Olympics has been hosted under even worst leaders - e.g. Hitler

Donald Trump dose not come close.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

It's about how the election impacts the bid, not who opens the Games. Hitler wasn't leader of Germany when they were given the Games. I don't think Trump's election and how he got there is going to help LA unless - and here's hoping because the Olympics are a triviality in the Grand Scheme - he can very quickly prove the doubters very wrong.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> I'm not sure your little poster conspiracy actually compares in any way to having just elected a racist and misogynist president with a homophobic VP. LA24/USOC officials made a magnificently unsubtle u-turn about their views on Trump yesterday and how his Presidency might affect the bid. I think we both know their earlier views were the more genuine. Things have got harder for your bid, sadly through no fault of those working for it or supporting it.


So why do you think the producer of the London 2012's OC put a bit of spin on that segment? Out of the goodness of his heart? Because he saw himself as so very principled, as so virtuous in upholding the ideals of the Olympic movement, as opposed to 1984 and 1996?

He probably also thought the 2012 game's logo was wonderful.

If members of the IOC don't feel queasy about the people in charge of China, and if you're not squeamish about that too, then are you the type who - to continue the irony - will think it's principled to award leaders the Nobel Peace prize for merely showing up? Out of the goodness of your heart?

Judging who or what is corrupt and dishonest or not may be similar to judging whether an Olympics ceremony is good or not. So it's all in the eye of the beholder? It's all based on the meaning of "is" is? 

People may think they're principled and big hearted, but in reality they may be mainly misguided. They may be the type who from a creative standpoint think that having placard bearers riding around on tricycles at an Olympics ceremony is appropriately whimsical and not too goofy.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

We can debate till the cows come home in this thread where we'd personally draw the line and whether there's any level of hypocrisy as far as the IOC is concerned. The fact is however, from the soundings we've had, your own bid is clearly nervous of the Trump effect on its chances. I don't know if they're right to be, but they're in a better position to make that judgement than you or I.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

RobH said:


> You're right though about the 'morals' of the IOC. Maybe your own officials are wrong and Trump might not be a problem. After all, Putin proved not to be (at the bidding stage anyway). However, the fact that the argument now seems to be _"well, the IOC has gone to places with questionable leaders before"_ rather than _"look, we don't have this problem"_ is quite a sad indictment.


...a sad indictment of more than just the LA 2024 Olympic bid...hno:


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

^^ It's not an indictment _at all _of the LA bid. Things seem to have got more difficult for them through no fault of their own.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

Yeah that is true. The more I think about the more I think that it may have less of a disastrous impact on the bid than I first thought. If the IOC can work with Putin then they can work with Trump. Still sad to think for the bid that they have to work AGAINST their government as opposed to with it (at least politically)


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Putin attending the IOC session and making a rare speech in English probably helped persuade the IOC. But the anti-gay message he preached to Olympic volunteers, the invasion of Crimea causing _an actual protest_ at the opening ceremony of the Paralympics, the unprecedented costs and now the McLaren report casting a black shadow over those Games puts that decision in a different light. Whilst they publically say Sochi was a success its knock on effects, empowering anti-Olympic movements across potential bidding cities in Western Europe (and indeed in Boston), are still felt. It is what the IOC is reeling from and trying to put right. Putin is worse, but if the IOC is even a tincy bit self-aware they'll be nervous of any Games which could be as politically-charged as Sochi was. Trump offers exactly what they don't need at this moment, which is probably half the reason why LA officials are so nervous of how his Presidency could affect their bid.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

I wonder what the producer of London 2012's OC thinks of Britain's queen, politically or otherwise? He apparently believed she deserved just a modicum of maturity and dignity: 







Los Angeles (or Paris, etc) would be rightly accused of displaying the worst of Hollywood hokum if it ever attempted an Olympic OC the way the producer of 2012 did.

Montreal 1976 was hardly perfect, but it at least didn't make QEII a foil for bad humor:


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

Actually, opinion polls say that YES-NO is fifty-fifty or so.
But why you still nominate Italy? And the Italian referendum? What this has to do with Olympics? :lol: 
If you have arguments, you must focus your attention on LA ...or how to save the American bid from Trump's influence.

While about France, Le Pen is not the President. Or at least, it is still not a problem for Paris 2024.


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## Saiholmes (Jan 16, 2005)

> Rams to break ground on $2.6 billion Inglewood stadium Thursday (expected to become the world's most expensive sports arena.)
> 
> The Los Angeles Rams will break ground on their $2.6 billion stadium in Inglewood, California, during a ceremony at 11 a.m. PT Thursday.


http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...s-break-ground-26b-stadium-inglewood-thursday


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

pesto said:


> That’s the real lesson here just as it was in Italy and England’s Brexit votes and may continue in Europe.


To note: Italy's referendum has nothing to do with leaving the EU or eurozone.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

All things now being equal, the only way LA 2024 can get an edge over Paris 2024 and, to a lesser degree, Budapest 2024 is through social connections.

Mayor Eric Garcetti - a Rhodes scholar - is supposed to know five different languages, including French, which should help him promote Los Angeles's case to the IOC. 

I think LA's presentation material, so far, is better than Paris's and Budapest's. But what undercuts that is the sense Los Angeles hosted the games too recently.

However, if the IOC were on the ball - and out of a sense of fairness - they'd announce right now that Paris is guaranteed to receive whichever Olympics is next located in Europe. Then they'd say whichever summer games is next given to North America will go to Los Angeles. 

That would make even more sense because the Olympic movement at this time is looking tired and shaky. First, because of all the headaches associated with Rio and, prior to that, Sochi. Then all the controversies over drug doping and cities dropping out of bidding or refusing to bid in the first place. But to make matters even more stressed out, because of the budgetary problems that are starting to crop up with Tokyo 2020. 



> *LA 2024 Bid Committee Pledges to Add eSports to Olympic Program
> *
> Today, Los Angeles mayor *Eric Garcetti* is in Qatar presenting the city’s case for hosting the 2024 Olympics to the Association of National Olympic Committees. According to a press release from earlier this month, part of the city’s plan for their Olympic bid includes a focus on eSports (video games).
> 
> ...


..


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## GunnerJacket (Jan 25, 2008)

Folks, we're not carrying the political debates into this thread, Trump, Calexit or otherwise. This thread is for the technical merits of individual bids or cities, and to the extent that any outside political measure may influence the bids that should be referenced only at the absolute minimum and then move on. Political discourse, however, belongs in other threads. Thanks.

Carry on.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Paris 2024 Olympic Bid Promises “Friendliest Games Ever” For NOC’s and Athletes
By Robert Livingstone | Published November 15, 2016

http://gamesbids.com/eng/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/budapast_2017_pool-300x189.jpg

_Presenting to over 1,000 stakeholder delegates at the Association of National Olympic Committees (ANOC) General Assembly in Doha, Qatar Tuesday, Paris’ bid for the 2024 Olympic and Paralympic Games focused on a theme of “passion + purpose” and creating optimum conditions for athletes, coaches and officials at the Olympic Games._









_Paris’ 2024 Olympic bid delegation with Mayor Anne Hidalgo (centre) present in Doha, Qatar at ANOC General Assembly (Paris 2024 photo)_

The French capital is bidding to host the Games for the third time – the first since 1924. It’s the fourth time France has bid for the Summer Games in the past quarter-century.

French National Olympic Committee (NOC) President Denis Masseglia said “the presentation of Paris 2024 is about a bid inspired by Olympic values, led by sport and athletes and powered by the collective energy and will of France’s national sports movement.

“It is this energy that we will put at your service with Paris 2024, which will allow us to respond to your needs and those of your athletes, and which today sees us launch the Paris 2024 ‘NOC and NPC Declaration’. It sets out the outstanding service you will receive. And together, in partnership with you, we want to develop these ideas further and so make 2024 an exceptional experience for each of you.”

The declaration is a set of proposals that highlights the tailored ‘concierge service’ the city will offer teams of athletes, coaches and officials before, during and after the Games. These 18 key pledges have been designed, the bid says, in the spirit of Olympic Agenda 2020 to create the optimum conditions for great athlete performances and make Paris 2024 the friendliest Games ever for NOCs and NPCs.

Paris Mayor Anne Hidalgo, speaking in English, French and Spanish, shared a broader vision of the Games with emphasis on the environment and a global impact.

She said “the Olympic Games bring humanity together like no other event on earth. You are all important actors in meeting the challenges that face the world’s future – and you have demonstrated this clearly, in the eyes of the world, with Agenda 2020.

“Respecting the planet, fighting for development, creating opportunities for young people, supporting gender equality through sport and especially through the Games, which unite humankind in a way that nothing else can.

“Paris is a confident city, which is not afraid to invent the future. Our vision for 2024 is optimistic, inclusive, joyful – but also clear-sighted and determined. In Paris in 2024 we will swim in the River Seine. We will travel in driverless vehicles. We will celebrate the Games on the Champs Elysees, with the Eiffel Tower and all along the Seine from the Grand Palais to Saint Denis.”

Bid co-Chair, Olympic Champion and International Olympic Committee (IOC) member Tony Estanguet spoke of passion and legacy that, he says, will be a key driver in Paris’ plans.

“I’m convinced that passion and purpose must remain central to our Movement for its future success. And why Paris 2024 is built on those two key pillars: passion and purpose.

“I hope there can be no question about French passion, especially for sport. Olympism is in our DNA. Every Olympic and Paralympic sport has a vibrant community in our country. Since 2010, we have staged more than 40 sold out, international events in Olympic sports.”









_Paris 2024 has proposed beach volleyball in the shadow of the Eiffel Tower_

In an apparent response to rival Los Angeles’ plans to use only existing or temporary venues for the Games to fully embrace Agenda 2020 – Paris says it believes new venue development is important and necessary part of the Olympic project.

Estanguet emphasized “to align with Agenda 2020, all of this must be just the start… Because the Games must also have a purpose: to leave a real and lasting legacy… Paris 2024 will deliver both physical legacy… and social legacy.

“Today, we live in a challenging era for sport, even for the world. So, more than ever, we have a responsibility to deliver Games with real, long-term purpose… Which is why we have already started to deliver.

“We are developing new ways of thinking about the future of Olympism… Our belief in sharing is in tune with the way young people all over the world are living their lives today. This engagement… these partnerships… this thinking… all of them, serve one goal: To make the Olympic Movement stronger… To make our family stronger.

“Our vision is to share the passion of the Games… And to share the purpose of Olympism… To ensure that the Olympic Movement fully connects with this new, sharing generation.”

Eight-time World Champion and double Olympic Gold Medallist in Judo, Teddy Riner said “Paris 2024 will offer a compact and connected venue plan when 85 per cent of athletes will be within 30 minutes of their venues, and Paris has also developed the most compact Games-time training plan in the history of the Games.”

Also speaking at the podium for Paris was Bid co-Chair Bernard Lapasset.

The ANOC presentations were the first of three planned and approved events by the IOC during the 2024 bid campaign among Budapest and Los Angeles. The cities will present next July at a special session in Lausanne, Switzerland and then again just prior to the host city election September 13 in Lima, Peru.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Budapest 2024 Implores IOC To End Mega-City Trend And Choose Mid-Size Host City Instead

http://gamesbids.com/eng/featured/b...-trend-and-choose-mid-size-host-city-instead/

_By Robert Livingstone | Published November 15, 2016 _

_A Budapest 2024 Olympic Games will send “the message that the Olympic Games are not simply for the mega-city but for mid-size cities, too,” Olympic bid leader Balázs Fürjes claimed during a critical twenty-minute presentation to key stakeholder members of the Association of National Olympic Committees (ANOC) Tueday in Doha, Qatar._









_Budapest 2024 delegation set to present in Doha at ANOC General Assembly_

Hungary’s capital is widely deemed an outsider in the race against so-called “mega-cities” Los Angeles and Paris – both having already hosted the Games twice. An Olympics in Budapest would be the first for the nation, and for Central Europe.

The three cities are all campaigning with the message that they are a good fit for the International Olympic Committee’s (IOC) Agenda 2020 reform package that is designed to make bidding more affordable and sustainable – and available to more cities. But Budapest claims its model is an alternative concept that will open up the Games to more cities in the future, where its rivals would instead reinforce the IOC’s exclusive mega-city club.

“The Agenda 2020 reforms make it possible for a new generation of mid-sized cities to host the Games, creating new possibilities for the Olympic Movement that will reinforce the IOC’s modern agenda,” Fürjes said Tuesday.

“A Budapest Games would give hope to new nations and new cities, nations and cities on the rise. It would spread the reach of the Olympic Movement…(and create) new possibilities that will take forward the IOC’s new agenda.

“Today, our region offers financial resilience and stability, containing the most reliable economies in the European Union – among them Hungary. Budapest is on the rise and ready to deliver – we are the right city at the right time.”

Last week bond rating service Moody’s upgraded Hungary’s status based on a more positive financial outlook.

Budapest is a founding nation of the Olympic movement and offered to host the first modern Games in 1896, and also bid for six other Games is the past century – failing in each attempt.









_The venue of the 2017 World Aquatics Championship under construction in Budapest, Hungary – May 2016_.

The bid team emphasized that the Games would be an extremely compact concept straddling the Danube River. Many venues already exist and only three new facilities would need to be built. And that shouldn’t be a problem, organizers say, because more development has occurred in the city in the past seven years than would be needed to prepare for the Games seven years from now.

“The experience will be truly new and unique,” Attila Mizsér, Director of Sports and Venues said.

“The whole city as one single connected Olympic Park. A genuine compact games experience built into the fabric of the city and accessible to all. A city wide celebration of sport.”

The Hungarian bid committee suggests the legacy of an Olympic Games is vital to the IOC and that Budapest provides a credible option of lasting improvements to the city and the nation.

“The legacy for each of our venues is carefully considered in the context of comprehensive business plans that continue to be honed as we progress,” Fürjes said.

The city has a recent history of quickly developing world-class sport venues on time and on budget and this is underlined by the new Budapest Aquatics Centre (BAC), which is being completed in a record-breaking two-year schedule of construction for the FINA World Aquatics Championships to be held next July.

Other venues, such as the velodrome, will become an important part of the legacy plan designed to support nations of central Europe.

The ANOC presentations were the first of three planned and approved events by the IOC during the 2024 bid campaign. The cities will present next July at a special session in Lausanne, Switzerland and then again just prior to the host city election September 13 in Lima, Peru.


*Budapest 2024 Presenters:*
_Zsófia Arlóy, table tennis Paralympian
Áron Szilágyi, sabre fencer and two-time Olympic Champion
Zsolt Borkai, Chairman of the Hungarian Olympic Committee, Olympic gymnastics champion
Balázs Fürjes, Chairman, Budapest 2024
Deputy Mayor of Budapest, Alexandra Szalay-Bobrovniczky
Attila Mizsér, Director of Sports and Venues, Budapest 2024, Olympic modern pentathlon champion_

*Non-speakers in the delegation:*
_Dr. Gusztáv Bienerth, Vice-Chairman, Budapest 2024
László Vajda, Vice-Chairman, Budapest 2024
György Habsburg, Budapest 2024 Bid Ambassador_


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

America Needs The LA 2024 Games “More Than Ever” Olympic Champ Claims At Key Presentation

http://gamesbids.com/eng/featured/a...ver-olympic-champ-claims-at-key-presentation/

_By Robert Livingstone | Published November 15, 2016 _









_LA 2024 Athletes’ Advisory Commission member Allyson Felix’s six Olympic gold medals and three silver medals make her the most decorated female track-and-field athlete in Olympic history (Photo: Fernando Frazão/Agência Brasil, Rio 2016 Games)_

Los Angeles’ bid for the 2024 Olympic and Paralympic Games presented first among rival bids to delegates of the Association of National Olympic Committees (ANOC) in Doha, Qatar Tuesday. In front of over 1,000 key stakeholder delegates, LA promised a “transformative Games to guarantee greater sustainability and youth connection for future Games.”

The delegation was lead by key bid executives including chair Casey Wasserman, LA Mayor Eric Garcetti and Vice Chair Janet Evans – but it was six-time athletics Olympic champion Allyson Felix who addressed the proverbial elephant in the room. Discussions about a Donald Trump Presidency in the United States has been a hot topic in Doha this week due to his xenophobic election rhetoric and inward-looking policies.

“I want to tell you about the America that I love, and the America that needs the Games to help make our nation better – now more than ever.”

“America is diverse. We are a nation of people whose descendants came from all over the world for a better life,” Felix, an African American, said.

“But…we’re also a nation with individuals like me…descendants of people who came to America…not of their own free will…but against it.

“We just finished our presidential election, and some of you may question America’s commitment to its founding principles. I have one message for you: Please don’t doubt us. America’s diversity…is our greatest strength.

“Diversity…is not…easy. Diversity is a leap of faith…that embraces all faiths.”

Mayor Garcetti explained “I see an America that is outward-looking, ready to play its role alongside the community of nations to address our world’s most pressing challenges.”

“Choose LA2024 and help us show a new generation of Americans that our strength is being with the world, not turning our backs to it. I believe the Olympic and Paralympic Games are the light we are seeking and that we must look to follow.”

LA’s key differentiation from among Budapest and Paris is the extreme use of existing or temporary venues that will result in very little new permanent construction – in fact earlier this week it was reported that the bid will not even publish a capital projects budget since there would be no line-items to include. This, the bid explains, will help set the focus, for seven years, on perfecting the athlete experience instead.

To that end, Janet Evans announced LA 2024’s commitment to establishing an Olympic Village Council in partnership with the International Olympic Committee and ANOC, to ensure the existing facilities for the Olympic Village at the UCLA campus provide the “most personalized ever” Games-time experience for the athletes of the world.

“LA 2024 is the right bid, at the right place, at the right time,” Evans said.

International Olympic Committee (IOC) member Angela Ruggiero said “we are not changing our city to fit the Games, we are adapting the Games Concept to fit our city – and that is true innovation. If you believe in Olympic Agenda 2020, then you have to believe in LA 2024’s Concept.”

Wasserman summarized the plans to address the IOC’s Agenda 2020 reforms geared for bidding.

“Our goal is to reimagine a Games model that will do three things; use high tech to redefine sustainability, use innovation to minimize risk and use creativity to engage the global youth audience, he said.

He added, in apparent reference to Paris advocates who also claim possession of Earth’s star, “our vision, which we call ‘Follow the Sun’, is not about our Olympic weather; it’s about the future-focused culture of a special place called ‘California’.”









_LA 2024 delegates (L to R) Casey Wasserman, Allyson Felix, Janet Evans and Angela Ruggiero prepare for presnetation to ANOC General Assembly in Doha (Team USA Photo_)

Mayor Garcetti laid out LA’s value proposition to the IOC, one that he admitted to being radical. He claimed that LA, like at the 1984 Games, could help save the Olympic Movement.

“We believe our campaign isn’t just about the Games in our city in 2024. We believe this bid is about ensuring that the Games are sustainable beyond 2024 as well.”

“In other words, this bid isn’t only about LA’s future – it’s about our collective future. This is a stark and unique difference about our bid.

“We are planning a great Games in Los Angeles – make no mistake – but we’re also laying the ground work along with you for future games.”

Speaking in both Spanish and English the Mayor added “Let me put that into context- I was a thirteen-year-old child when the most amazing thing came to my city – the 1984 Olympic Games. And they changed my city forever, and they changed me forever.”

“I saw the face of the world on the streets of Los Angeles and I became a believer in the power of the Olympic Movement to transform the world.”

The ANOC presentations were the first of three planned and approved events by the IOC during the 2024 bid campaign. The cities will present next July at a special session in Lausanne, Switzerland and then again just prior to the host city election September 13 in Lima, Peru.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

redspork02 said:


> Paris 2024 Olympic Bid Promises “Friendliest Games Ever” For NOC’s and Athletes
> By Robert Livingstone | Published November 15, 2016
> 
> http://gamesbids.com/eng/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/budapast_2017_pool-300x189.jpg
> ...


Looks like they flipped a coin and Hidalgo won. Her clichéd talking points:

Bring humanity together? Check
You are important actors? Check
Meeting challenges that face the world? Check
Respecting the planet? Check
Fight for development? Check
Creating opportunities for young people? Check
Supporting gender equality? Check
Unite humankind? Check
Paris is confident? Check
Paris is not afraid to invent the future? Check
Paris is optimistic, inclusive, joyful? Check
Paris is clear-sighted and determined? Check
Swim in the Seine? Check
Driverless vehicles? Check
Pour on the history (Champs Elysees, Eiffel Tower, Grand Palais, St. Denis)? Check

Poor Estanguet gets the dirty work:

“I hope there is no question about French passion.” OUCH. Phrasing it that way makes it clear that there ARE questions about French passion, which reflects back on Hidalgo’s comments re Paris. Same story as Hollande’s trip to Rio to talk about security; an act of desperation. 

Building a physical legacy. OUCH!! Happy talk for the unions and construction companies but not so much with taxpayers, environmentalists and new agers. This is critical to make clear, but should have been left for the private talks which is all that the unions and corporations care about any way.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Budapest as expected focussed on trying to get the message across that now is the time for a smaller host city. _(one story which hasn't been covered in this thread is the fact their NOC's independence is under threat, and the IOC doesn't look kindly on government interference - keep an eye on this one)._

Interesting that Paris is _consciously_ pointing out that they have a few more things to build than LA. On paper these are two incredibly safe technical bids. Will casting themselves as the city that the IOC can leave its physical mark on really work? Especially when a decade ago they were mocking London's "virtual bid"? It's an intriguing spin on what is really quite a small difference between their bid and LA's. I'm not entirely convinced it'll work. 

And as for this...

_“Respecting the planet, fighting for development, creating opportunities for young people, supporting gender equality through sport and especially through the Games, which unite humankind in a way that nothing else can."_

...maybe I've been too focussed on events in the US, but this reads to me as a not so subtle dig at the direction the US has taken in the last few days. If it isn't, it's _certainly_ an appeal to the high-mindedness of an IOC that likes to play-up its connections with global initiatives, its links with the United Nations etc. That they're trying to say they're the bid best placed to build on this is an interesting tactic.

And that brings me onto LA: 

That LA2024 felt the need to get Allyson Felix to make the kind of intervention she did re: the US election is extremely telling. The not so hidden message seems to be 'vote for us despite our President'. I can't remember anything quite like it actually. It's extraordinary and perhaps unprecedented. I remember back in 2005 Bush was kept out of the picture by NYC2012 with the Iraq war playing out in the background to the decision. But I don't ever remember a direct plea from the team to look past the President in making their decision, or that because of the political situation the nation needs the Games "now more than ever". I feel kinda sorry for the LA team in all honesty.

What's clear is that all three bids have decided to consciously spin their weaknesses into strengths today. I'm not convinced any of them will succeed in doing so, but of course one of these bids has to win.


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## GunnerJacket (Jan 25, 2008)

californiadreams said:


> > LA 2024 Bid Committee Pledges to Add eSports to Olympic Program


Dear God, no. Not only are the games too large as it is but this is the antitheses of spirit of the games. Especially if they intend to virtually play actual sports as opposed to war games, in which case they've achieved the epitome of surrealism! To say nothing of the unequal distribution among cultures that can even do these. 

The Olympics should not be forced into accommodating every pseudo-athletic competition available, and adding eSports would make it a complete farce, IMO. 



redspork02 said:


> Budapest 2024 Implores IOC To End Mega-City Trend And Choose Mid-Size Host City Instead


Yes to making the games amenable to smaller locations, please. As touched on above the event is already far larger than it needs to be and the costs to play hosts are becoming more and more extreme, even without accounting for some of the expected local graft and collusion that wastes additional monies on general capital improvement projects. Drop the sailing events so that you're not obliged to be near a coast, for instance, and pare back on other events (equestrian, walking...) that stray from the core athletics, are less popular and simply add to the costs of the event. Then more world-class, but smaller, cities could have a better opportunity to host.

I say, anyway.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

PERSONAL OPINION ALERT:

I get the sense that Paris continues to rip off LA. The Olympics are in their DNA now. I don't know about anybody else but I get the sense that Paris' presentation stinks of LA marketing undertones. I also get that Paris laid on the pandering. The Olympic agenda 2020 for the world to see? Am I the only one who has failed to see Agenda 2020?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> PERSONAL OPINION ALERT:
> 
> I get the sense that Paris continues to rip off LA. The Olympics are in their DNA now. I don't know about anybody else but I get the sense that Paris' presentation stinks of LA marketing undertones. I also get that Paris laid on the pandering. The Olympic agenda 2020 for the world to see? Am I the only one who has failed to see Agenda 2020?


LOL. This must be evolution. The Italian PR picked up on sports and innovation being in their DNA ever since 700BC. Which I have to admit made my jaw drop since I associate Italy with great art, food and opera but not exactly with sports and innovation.

And you are correct. Paris recently changed their PR people (I can't discuss why) and the new guy is just getting into it. Clearly weakness among the young and potential tourists is the first line of attack, which is why Paris as a nice, clean, friendly place got front and center. 

Notice also that there is not one word about security. That's the right way to deal with that issue. NEVER put Paris and security in the same paragraph. Don't ever talk about it until you have a credible story that it's 100 percent fixed.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

GunnerJacket said:


> The Olympics should not be forced into accommodating every pseudo-athletic competition available, and adding eSports would make it a complete farce, IMO.


You have a good point. 

I'm guessing the LA 2024 people are waving the flag of new, hip fanboy, fangirl technology and trying to get the IOC to feel "hey, we don't want to lose the interest of all those millennials out there!" But the bid committee appears to be also trying to highlight the cultural trends emanating from LA or California compared with other parts of the world.

I'll say again that the presentation materials of LA 2024 are more nicely put together than the materials of Paris 2024. But that's easily overshadowed by the fact the French have been waiting for a summer games for over 90 years. That, in turn, is in the shadow of Tokyo 2020 wrestling with a budget that was overly optimistic when first presented to the IOC back in 2013. 

If the French are awarded the 2024 Olympics, and the Paris 2024 committee duplicates the poor judgment of the group responsible for the last time a games were held in their country - Albertville 1992 - then one symbolic aspect of the event will be a big letdown. The same thing applies to Los Angeles 2024 duplicating the mistakes of Atlanta 1996.

It all comes down to execution: See London 2012 and its inability to create even a decent logo.


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## pierolol (Apr 29, 2009)

youtube version

*PARIS 2024





*​


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## Atlixcáyotl34 (Mar 29, 2007)

My vote was for Budapest!


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## GunnerJacket (Jan 25, 2008)

californiadreams said:


> The same thing applies to Los Angeles 2024 duplicating the mistakes of Atlanta 1996.


:sly:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Things like this:



> *Poll: What should become of Atlanta's underwhelming Olympic cauldron?*
> 
> *Former Mayor Andrew Young reflects on the cauldron as the biggest disappointment of the Games*
> 
> ...



I think Rio's counterpart to Atlanta 1996 was actually worse. At least 1996's cauldron wasn't a doohickey lost against the backdrop of an enclosed stadium.


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## SirAce (Mar 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> Notice also that there is not one word about security. That's the right way to deal with that issue. NEVER put Paris and security in the same paragraph. Don't ever talk about it until you have a credible story that it's 100 percent fixed.


Still with this topic? Do you think that if the problem is solved (that btw is impossible for any country in the world) do you think they are gonna make a public announcement? For you?  I would be much more scared if they feel the need to do such a statement.
And honestly, in USA people are able to shoot even during electoral vote! Near a polling station! I would not talk much about this security huge problem. 

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/08/p...down-after-shots-nearby-at-least-two-victims/ 




pesto said:


> LOL. This must be evolution. The Italian PR picked up on sports and innovation being in their DNA ever since 700BC. Which I have to admit made my jaw drop since I associate Italy with great art, food and opera but not exactly with *sports* and *innovation*.


Can you possibly be more naive? Or arrogant? Or the two things together?

Sport was widely practiced in ancient Rome even without Olympic Games...

http://www.ancient.eu/article/98/

Campo Martio was not only a place for military training but it was open to sport activity also to the other citizens.

Among the training fields there were Swimming, Horseback riding, Wrestling (also female one), Boxing, Running, Hunting (boar organized hunts for sport), Fishing, Ball sports with specific gyms (handball, soccer, field hockey, catch games) and more relaxing board games. 
Not to mention the entertaining sports with stadia designed for each one.

Modern sports? Well, Italy is sixth in the Olympic medal ranking. And second in the ranking of the most popular sport in the world, Football. Or Soccer as you like more.

About innovation, I guess Italy has contributed in some way to human scientific evolution...

https://blogs.princeton.edu/italian/2014/08/05/reasons-to-learn-italian-3-italian-inventions/
http://www.toptenreviews.com/software/articles/popular-inventions-from-italy/
http://www.lexiophiles.com/english/ten-italian-inventions-that-changed-the-world
http://www.thelocal.it/galleries/culture/10-things-the-italians-invented/10




> 1. *Telephone*: invented by Manzetti (1844) and Meucci (1871)
> 2.	*Moplen Plastic*: yes, the one we use every day in many shapes and colours, it was created by Natta in the 60′s
> 3.	*Piano*: this musical instrument was born in 1698 (in its modern form) and was invented by Bartolomeo Cristofori
> 4.	*Battery*: Alessandro Volta was the father of this invention (1799). The measurement unit Volt takes his name.
> ...





> Typewriter, Jacuzzi, Highway, Microchip, Helicopter, Jeans, Newspapers, Liposuction, Anemometer, Barometer, Eau de Cologne, Hyper Search (the basis for Google existence), Induction Motors, Miter Gates, Nitroglycerin, Parachute, Pistol, Polypropylene, Violin


Some more here... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Italian_inventions

In terms of mobility mechanical technology I guess we can always quote Ducati, Ferrari, Maserati, Piaggio (Vespa), Fiat (cinquecento), Brembo as popular producers...

Some military innovations like Paratroops, Air supremacy theory, commando frogmen, Marine infantry (marines)...

Please just continue to talk on Olympics only. Possibly without jumping on judgements or stereotypes on foreign situations that you obviously don't know...


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

redspork02 said:


> Paris 2024 Olympic Bid Promises “Friendliest Games Ever” For NOC’s and Athletes
> By Robert Livingstone | Published November 15, 2016
> 
> The French capital is bidding to host the Games for the third time – the first since 1924. It’s the fourth time France has bid for the Summer Games in the past quarter-century.



The English Channel and the national boundaries of Europe make all the difference in the world, because from a purely physical standpoint, London and Paris are like kissing cousins. I don't believe any other pair of cities that have hosted the summer Olympics are as close as those two are, or about 214 miles.

If Europe wasn't chopped up into rather small countries, but was more like that of the US - much less China - London 2012 would have (or should have) nixed Paris 2024's chances to a fairly large degree.












I think of Las Vegas as being a distant suburb of Los Angeles. But even those two cities are separated by a greater distance than the miles between Paris and London.











Los Angeles and San Francisco, a city that some people say should bid for a future games, are separated by a bit more than 380 miles.

Two of the three US cities that have hosted the summer Olympics, St. Louis and Atlanta, are over 460 miles from each other.

Paris 2024 should be rather relieved that the European Union is not considered the full, total substitute of the United Kingdom and France.


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## slipperydog (Jul 19, 2009)

LA 2024 will be sponsoring a float in the 2017 Tournament of Roses Parade!

Nadia Comaneci
‏@nadiacomaneci10
Looking forward to being a part of the Rose Parade with @LA2024 ❤


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

SirAce said:


> History is not genetic. That's the point. The point is that you deny it giving "modernity license" just judging on stereotypes.
> The rest you took it from a tourist guide and that's fine. I wouldn't pass it for a deep understanding of a city or a country as you usually do. Otherwise you wouldn't mistake Bilbao for a "forward looking" city in comparison to Barcelona. Both cities were able to look forward like nothing else in Europe when they decided to. Choosing Gehry or Miralles was just the result of this opening. And they can be rear looking like few ones according to the period.
> Gehry, like all the Archistars is just doing his job everywhere, not differently from Foster, Meier, Calatrava, Libeskind, Fuksas or Zaha Hadid (I didn't include Nouvel and Piano because I think that they still care a bit of the context). They have been working everywhere doing all the times the same (good) stuff. Like Zaha Hadid and Meier in Rome, Calatrava in Athens or Venice and so on.
> Japanese contemporary architects look the most advanced and their cities are changing from day to night. Nevertheless I never visited a country more influenced by its own millennia of history of artistry.
> ...


Pretty much nonsense, but the only reason I commented was you questioned my ever having been in cities that I have been to, and taught classes in, for decades. And speaking of absurd ideas, those questioning my comment that Rienzi is as short-term as Hollande, the Rome bid and the reform proposal, may not be quite so confident any more.)

Focusing on Gehry, he is very explicit that his work arises from materials and life (human, animal, plant). Industrial plants are not a part of LA specifically bit part of the economy, society and life more generally. They are everywhere in world, not specific to a particular time or location. In any event, I used Gehry as an example only because I had been in Bilbao the prior week.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

We can easily see why the colors in the LA24 logo.

Los Angeles Sunset by Carl Larson, on Flickr


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## SirAce (Mar 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> Pretty much nonsense, but the only reason I commented was you questioned my ever having been in cities that I have been to, and taught classes in, for decades.


Oh man, that's even scarier. 
Lonely planet notions result after living in such cities for "decades".



pesto said:


> And speaking of absurd ideas, those questioning my comment that Rienzi is as short-term as Hollande, the Rome bid and the reform proposal, may not be quite so confident any more.)


I was wondering if you keep writing "Rienzi" instead of Renzi for some reference to the Wagner Opera or because you don't check the correct spelling. It happens quite often. 
About being short term, well, you are the expert in politics. :lol:



pesto said:


> Focusing on Gehry, he is very explicit that his work arises from materials and life (human, animal, plant). Industrial plants are not a part of LA specifically bit part of the economy, society and life more generally. They are everywhere in world, not specific to a particular time or location. In any event, I used Gehry as an example only because I had been in Bilbao the prior week.


I never said that Industrial Plants are a specifically feature of LA. I was reporting Gehry's words talking about his inspirations. And making it an example that PEOPLE get inspired by what they want to. Gehry didn't get inspiration from LA beaches or by Hollywood hills. He said he got inspirations from steel panels of LA factories of the 1970s. To demonstrate that, he also brought with him hundreds of pictures he made when he was young, with LA landscapes of factories. Fishes were the other inspirations, in particular as represented in Japanese Ukiyo-e.
I guess you know Gehry's mind better than Gehry himself... :lol:

Anyhow, if also Piano got his own inspirations not from the wonderful historic city center of Genova but from the factories in the outskirts it's to say that maybe what you think to be a fixed imagery of a city or of a country is not so fixed as you keep writing. It's just your personal point of view. It can be shared by someone else but beware since quite often you distort your point of view to make it universal stereotype. Like when you talk of the weight of the history on innovation...


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## Pierre de Coubertin (Sep 25, 2016)

I 'm not french but I hope to see Paris 2024. Paris is one of most beautiful cities in the world, well organized, is developing a fantastc transport plan with the project "Grand Paris" with a circular metro (L15) that connect all radial lines, with the aim to build a link with the 2 airports (Orly by L14 and L18 and CDG by L17).

Venues are spectaculars (Stade de France is impossible to compare to Coliseum).

Outside the venues you have a lot of place to visit for the tourists (from Tour Eiffel to Montmatre, from Versailles to Louvre).

So, from Italy my vote goes to PARIS 2024. :cheers:


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## Sesto Elemento (Nov 12, 2011)

This video hasn's already been posted yet ??

Well... enjoy ! 

(en english)








Pierre de Coubertin said:


> So, from Italy my vote goes to PARIS 2024.


Pierre de Coubertin, merci !


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Sesto Elemento said:


> This video hasn's already been posted yet ??


It has been posted twice already .

Post #555 & post #571: 



pierolol said:


> youtube version
> 
> *PARIS 2024
> 
> ...


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## Sesto Elemento (Nov 12, 2011)

Ah sh***, my bad. Jamais deux sans trois.


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## Qtya (Aug 31, 2006)

*Budapest 2024 offers Right Sized City at Right Time for Olympic Games to Olympic leaders meeting in Doha*

http://aroundtherings.com/site/A__5...-Olympic-leaders-meeting-in-Doha/292/Articles


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)




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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Soup, you beat me to it.


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

Pierre de Coubertin said:


> I 'm not french but I hope to see Paris 2024. Paris is one of most beautiful cities in the world, well organized, is developing a fantastc transport plan with the project "Grand Paris" with a circular metro (L15) that connect all radial lines, with the aim to build a link with the 2 airports (Orly by L14 and L18 and CDG by L17).
> 
> Venues are spectaculars (Stade de France is impossible to compare to Coliseum).
> 
> ...


All of this can literally be said about the LA plan.


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## Pierre de Coubertin (Sep 25, 2016)

Hey mate, do You want really compare how is beauty, touristic And interesting Paris To LA? Try To Image how is for a tourist his first time in Paris or in LA. A Total different Experience.


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

Pierre de Coubertin said:


> Hey mate, do You want really compare how is beauty, touristic And interesting Paris To LA? Try To Image how is for a tourist his first time in Paris or in LA. A Total different Experience.


Absolutely agree. Paris and Los Angeles are two totally different cities so I absolutely agree that Paris and LA will have two totally different experiences. If you're trying to say that one city is better than the other when it comes to touristy stuff, you are incorrect. Both are essentially equal. I personally have given tours of LA to people not from the city so you can't tell me what it's like for a tourist to experience LA.


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## Pierre de Coubertin (Sep 25, 2016)

You are right. Absolutely right. But like first visit Paris has got a better appeal. And Paris is more attractive for American than LA for european.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

SirAce said:


> Oh man, that's even scarier.
> Lonely planet notions result after living in such cities for "decades".
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, when I'm in a hurry I keep writing Rienzi for Renzi. But since Renzi has again promised resign if the referendum loses, and since the final polls show it losing badly, his views on the Olympics may be about as relevant to Rienzi's.

Btw, the FT notes (contrary to some here) that a defeat of the referendum means the Euro is in grave danger not just in Italy but everywhere. This seems to be common knowledge in financial circles but a revelation of miraculous proportions on this thread.

https://www.ft.com/content/7ea6837a-ad83-11e6-ba7d-76378e4fef24


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## Saiholmes (Jan 16, 2005)

Pierre de Coubertin said:


> You are right. Absolutely right. But like first visit Paris has got a better appeal. And Paris is more attractive for American than LA for european.


The sunshine, beaches and palm trees and the laid back vibe in L.A. are golden. Los Angeles is the entertainment capital of the world, from the Hollywood film industry to all of the great concerts and clubs, we beat Paris hands down!


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## SirAce (Mar 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> Yes, when I'm in a hurry I keep writing Rienzi for Renzi. But since Renzi has again promised resign if the referendum loses, and since the final polls show it losing badly, his views on the Olympics may be about as relevant to Rienzi's.


Actually Renzi keeps repeating at least since last June (even before Rome Elections) that he will not resign wherever result there will be at the referendum.

http://www.ilgiornale.it/news/renzi...ro-niente-dimissioni-se-vince-no-1274751.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-italy-referendum-idUSKCN1220EP



pesto said:


> Btw, the FT notes (contrary to some here) that a defeat of the referendum means the Euro is in grave danger not just in Italy but everywhere. This seems to be common knowledge in financial circles but a revelation of miraculous proportions on this thread.
> 
> https://www.ft.com/content/7ea6837a-ad83-11e6-ba7d-76378e4fef24


Yup. It's bullshit, I confirm.

Only outside Italy there is fuss about it. Guess everybody is panicking after Brexit and Trump.

This fuss it's (unfortunately) normal interference on Italian internal affairs. It happens in every election or every big vote in Italy. We always read that Italy will crumble or finish or the world end. It's been at least 20 years it's going on like that. 
If the "No" wins (as probable) nothing will happen. That's obvious btw.
Something will change if the Yes wins. Since with the Yes Italian constitution will change a bit.

You can have some more clue here...it's clear and well written.

http://reaction.life/dont-panic-italian-constitutional-referendum-isnt-brexit/



Saiholmes said:


> The sunshine, beaches and palm trees and the laid back vibe in L.A. are golden. Los Angeles is the entertainment capital of the world, from the Hollywood film industry to all of the great concerts and clubs, we beat Paris hands down!


Are you a moderator of an international thread? Seriously? :lol:


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## SirAce (Mar 16, 2008)

soup or man said:


> If you're trying to say that one city is better than the other when it comes to touristy stuff, you are incorrect. Both are essentially equal. I personally have given tours of LA to people not from the city so you can't tell me what it's like for a tourist to experience LA.


Is always unfair to say that one city is better than another IMHO, so I agree with you as a general approach.

But your experience as a tour guide is not enough to state that LA is as attractive than Paris. Unless you didn't work also in Paris in the same job.

About the pure numbers, Euromonitor gave them for this year.

Paris is the fifth most visited city in the world by International tourists. 
Los Angeles is out of the first 25.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/28/travel/most-visited-cities-euromonitor-2016/
http://blog.euromonitor.com/2016/01/top-100-city-destinations-ranking-2016.html

All the other lists regarding culture, lifestyle, urban aesthetic, customers satisfaction etc. I saw I almost never found LA or LA before Paris.

That doesn't mean that LA isn't a wonderful city. It is. Nevertheless for the international tourism Paris is more attractive. And I tell you since I personally like more LA than Paris. But that's just my opinion...


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

Coming as a native of LA, I can say with complete certainty that Los Angeles is easily the most misunderstood city. Not in the US but probably in the entire world. I don't really care about what other people say about LA to be perfectly honest (I think a majority of the population of LA doesn't). The problem that people not from LA (or who haven't been to LA at all) have is that they base their opinions on the same tired stereotypes that they have seen or read.

For example. This is HAZE. Not smog.









People say that Los Angeles has no culture or no substance. Which couldn't be further from the truth. There are hundreds of art galleries, museums, playhouses, and not to mention movies that are sometimes made here. In downtown for example you have the Walt Disney Concert Hall, Dorothy Chandler Pavilion, Mark Taper Forum, Ahmanson Theater, The Broad, Museum of Contemporary Art, and the grossly underappreciated Colburn School of Preforming Arts. All of which are across the street from each other.

Not to mention the Museum of Death (which is highly recommended), Museum of Tolerance, Museum of Jurassic Technology, Japanese American National Museum, Natural History Museum, African American Museum, The Ghetty Museum, and Venice Beach on a Sunday afternoon in July. 

Curbed made a Bingo game about the most common stereotypes in LA.









It's tiring. I'll defend LA until I die. I love my city. I now live in Chicago but I'm too West Coast for the Midwest. 

Yes you will be driving everywhere but LA has a rapidly improving transportation network (2 rail lines opened this year...one of which ends like two blocks from the beach).









Not taking anything away from Paris. I'm just over people crapping on LA for the simple fact that it's not as grand or beautiful (whatever that means) as Paris. I can also bet money that you can't go to a Mexican restaurant in Paris where the chefs are Korean who speak Spanish. Or Sizzler. Not just in LA but in SoCal. Sizzler is high up there on my list for best places to eat. If you're not from here, then you have no idea.






LA is GROSSLY underrated as a city. People really need to look at the city for what it is and not compare it to wherever it is that you're from. LA isn't New York or Chicago or London or Paris. It should be appreciated as such.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Festin said:


> I think that is the right way to go. The Olympic Games are not just an sport event anymore, but a professional business. People should not be forced to pay for it through the public tv and radio channels. Instead anyone interested in watching it should subscribe to the channel instead.


I would only add that sport was always a business but has managed to keep the gullible convinced that it was somehow different from other businesses and therefore worthy of special legal treatment. But the huge profits that it can generate from its legalized cartels means that the sharks are fighting for control here (as in other professional and even amateur leagues).

And remember that you can't keep money out of sports; by pretending to you just switch it from open negotiations to bribes and self-serving contracts.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

soup or man said:


> Chicago is broke. Not enough money to bribe people these days or those days.


It's a shame that Chicago didn't win. Granted that left the door open for LA but I can only imagine the hysteria had Chicago not just won the World Series with the Cubs but also hosted the world to a Summer Olympics. This could have been an epic year and not just for the city of Chicago, but perhaps the Olympics as well with a games in the central time zone of the United States. Chicago would have knocked one out of the park (pun intended).


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> It's a shame that Chicago didn't win. Granted that left the door open for LA but I can only imagine the hysteria had Chicago not just won the World Series with the Cubs but also hosted the world to a Summer Olympics. This could have been an epic year and not just for the city of Chicago, but perhaps the Olympics as well with a games in the central time zone of the United States. Chicago would have knocked one out of the park (pun intended).


Chicago? I know Cubby fans are excited these days, but it’s hardly the place for an Olympics unless you think of it as a way of distracting the public from the on-going disasters. They have much bigger fish to fry.


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

pesto said:


> Chicago? I know Cubby fans are excited these days, but it’s hardly the place for an Olympics unless you think of it as a way of distracting the public from the on-going disasters. They have much bigger fish to fry.


Well yeah. But big events like that can help mask the problems that happen in a city. At least for 2 weeks. 5 million people (actually around 1 million) went to the Cubs parade on a clear blue day. 










Few days later, Trump was elected. Talk about going from one extreme to the other. Chicago still would've had a great summer Olympics. It was a hot summer with great weather. Truly sucks as Chicago will probably won't bid again until 2100. Owell.


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## jazzXVII (Aug 28, 2010)

Pierre de Coubertin said:


> So, from Italy my vote goes to PARIS 2024. :cheers:


I disagree, Paris and LA have already hosted olympic games in the past, so my vote goes to Budapest (for the same reason my vote was also for Hamburg, before retiring).


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

jazzXVII said:


> I disagree, Paris and LA have already hosted olympic games in the past, so my vote goes to Budapest (for the same reason my vote was also for Hamburg, before retiring).


Oy, back to square 1. So once again inexperience is overcome by entitlement.

Would you choose who does your brain surgery on that basis?


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## jazzXVII (Aug 28, 2010)

I am not a CIO member, so I speak only for myself. And I am not interested in surgery or flaming with anyone.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

soup or man said:


> Well yeah. But big events like that can help mask the problems that happen in a city. At least for 2 weeks. 5 million people (actually around 1 million) went to the Cubs parade on a clear blue day.
> 
> Few days later, Trump was elected. Talk about going from one extreme to the other. Chicago still would've had a great summer Olympics. It was a hot summer with great weather. Truly sucks as Chicago will probably won't bid again until 2100. Owell.


I think they better do more than mask the problems. Violent crime at absurd levels, city population declining, regional population declining. Even Hispanics (whose inflow previously masked the enormous outflow of locals) are leaving. Add in horrible schools, high taxes, etc. A local told me that the high rise condos used to be to hide from the weather but now they're booming so as to hide from the street crime.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

jazzXVII said:


> I am not a CIO member, so I speak only for myself. And I am not interested in surgery or flaming with anyone.


Me either but what you say is nice if you are talking about deciding which of your children can walk the dog but not so good in choosing who is going to do major surgery if one of them requires it. We should address this as careful, serious administrators not like the parents of squabbling infants.

Budapest is a beautiful city; but as has been noted, it is small and relatively poor; located in a small and relatively poor country; there are doubts about how much the populace supports the games; a significant over-run of costs (as is common) could put the city at risk of default; etc. 

Better to say you support Budapest assuming it can show that it has the best plan in place including how it will address contingencies, short-falls in revenues, etc. If their plan looks better than Paris' or LA's, I would vote for them as well.


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## jazzXVII (Aug 28, 2010)

pesto, I do not know if you are American, Hungarian or other nationalities. Considers that even my city, Rome, was a candidate in the Olympics, then retired. But also Hamburg retired.
I must admit that I have never been neither in Budapest nor to LA. But I have visited Paris twice and two years ago I spent ten days in Hamburg. In the USA I was only in New York City.
I have not followed the debate that led to the withdrawal of Hamburg, but I have reason to believe that the causes are different than those of Rome.
But it's too long and complex speaking about my town and my country here (and off-topic).
Hamburg is very well kept and not in danger of default, Rome is very badly maintained and in poor financial condition. I would not know about Budapest, I have visited Vienna but not Hungary.
But I do not think that Budapest is in worse financial conditions than Athens or Rio de Janeiro before hosting threir respective olympic games.
I have neither childrens nor dogs, I am 49 years old, I live alone and I am too old to live abroad, but if I were younger and I would have graduated I left Italy .
Poors are poors everywhere, I believe that wherever they are against the Olympics, in Rio de Janeiro as in L.A, in Athens or in Budapest. In Hamburg I noticed several posters against the Olympic bid, especially in St. Pauli area, I believe there is a strong argument against the central government because Hamburg lander receives too little public funding by the German state.


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## Pierre de Coubertin (Sep 25, 2016)

jazzXVII said:


> I disagree, Paris and LA have already hosted olympic games in the past, so my vote goes to Budapest (for the same reason my vote was also for Hamburg, before retiring).


Mate, you 're right. Absolutely right. But has Budapest got any possibility to win? Isn't a false two horse race, althought of Agendy 2020?

So between LA and Paris, I have no doubt. 

And then DUBAI 2028. :cheers:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

jazzXVII said:


> pesto, I do not know if you are American, Hungarian or other nationalities. Considers that even my city, Rome, was a candidate in the Olympics, then retired. But also Hamburg retired.
> I must admit that I have never been neither in Budapest nor to LA. But I have visited Paris twice and two years ago I spent ten days in Hamburg. In the USA I was only in New York City.
> I have not followed the debate that led to the withdrawal of Hamburg, but I have reason to believe that the causes are different than those of Rome.
> But it's too long and complex speaking about my town and my country here (and off-topic).
> ...


Can't disagree with much in your comments here. But some of it I don't know much about.

Sure, Budapest is the sentimental favorite here. But the economic issue for Budapest and Hungary is legitimate. It really is a small economy and if I were the IOC I would review their cost estimates and detailed plans in light of prior overruns. The Hungarian Olympic proponents had to use political maneuvering to avoid a public vote that they are afraid they would lose.


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## Vikusz (Oct 12, 2009)

> Budapest is a beautiful city; but as has been noted, it is small and relatively poor; located in a small and relatively poor country;


Everybody just talks about L.A. or Paris. 

So what was the reason to create Agenda 2020? 
If still nobody cares about Budapest because it is not as big and rich as a megapolis, then the IOC should cancel the Agenda 2020 and get the facts straight.. hno:



> Sure, Budapest is the sentimental favorite here. But the economic issue for Budapest and Hungary is legitimate. It really is a small economy


Sure, Budapest and Hungary, and the whole post-communist part of Europe is poorer than the western part. And sure, Budapest has smaller economy than bigger megapolises or countries. But thats why the Agenda 2020 was created, to giving chance to smaller (3 million inhabitans with suburbs) cities like Budapest. By the way, hosting an Olimpyc Game will contribute to the development of the city and country as well, and maybe Budapest wont be "poor" as you mentioned. 
Good example; Barcelona.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Too many people treat the Olympic games as though it's a device for various cities' chambers of commerce, tourist handbooks, architectural design studies or urban planning papers. The Olympics, after all, are mainly a two-week sporting event whose main concern should be catering to participating athletes.

I don't think the event is worth all the money that some of its biggest fans believe is appropriate and necessary. I also think it's gotten to the point where instead of the Olympics being used like a travelogue and game of musical chairs among cities throughout the world, it should start honing in on the idea of using a select number of fixed locations for the event. Many people favoring that approach often cite Athens as a logical permanent home for the games, although I'd extend that to cities like Sydney. September 2000 was the last time the Olympic games to me seemed to have a nice, all-around, friendly tone, with plenty of enthusiastic fans and a fairly good setting.

I used to be a bigger booster of the Olympics, but as its prestige has dropped over the years and the costs associated with it have soared, I now think of the event as bloated and much ado about not enough.

When the Los Angeles 2024 organizers were originally talking about having an elaborate Olympic village built next to the LA River, I really thought they were overshooting and wasting their time and money. If they had to do even more prepping for a games - such as building a totally brand-new stadium just for the games as Tokyo is having to do - I'd really say it was overkill for a two-week event.

This video is one reason why Rio 2016 didn't come off all that well, particularly since one of the signature events of the Olympics, track and field, often played before a stadium with lots of empty seats. 

Sebastian Coe is interviewed in this video, whose poor choices are the major reason I wasn't a big fan of London 2012: 






I've seen some videos from NHK (Japan's main news channel) showing people in Tokyo profiling the various neighborhoods of their city. The series highlights the idea of Tokyo welcoming the world due to the 2020 Olympics. But it come off as quaint and overly earnest. 

Tokyo is so far above and beyond the importance of the Olympic games themselves, that hyping that event in the context of Japan's capital is like bringing coals to Newcastle. It makes me think of a very wealthy family saying that the Christmas tree they've just installed in the ballroom of their 100-room mansion now allows visitors to see their home as nice and large enough.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Vikusz said:


> Everybody just talks about L.A. or Paris.
> 
> So what was the reason to create Agenda 2020?
> If still nobody cares about Budapest because it is not as big and rich as a megapolis, then the IOC should cancel the Agenda 2020 and get the facts straight.. hno:
> ...


I am not saying that Budapest isn't qualified; I am saying that the IOC could very well be concerned about financial stability for smaller or poorer countries. That just means that Budapest, in my view, needs to address these concerns in its submissions if it wants to improve its chances. 

I for sure have never said that it should be automatically eliminated. In fact, I have said that if it can address these concerns and has a better overall plan than LA or Paris, it should be selected.

I would question whether for any city the Olympics contribute to economic development or simply transfer taxes (which represent people's savings and effort) into profits for construction companies and leave behind white elephants. But that should be up to the Hungarian people to decide.


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## nbcee (Mar 2, 2013)

Vikusz said:


> So what was the reason to create Agenda 2020?
> If still nobody cares about Budapest because it is not as big and rich as a megapolis, then the IOC should cancel the Agenda 2020 and get the facts straight.. hno:


Exactly. If they say this game is for only 10M+ cities from great powers than okay, the've set the record straight. But then why bother with Agenda 2020? :dunno: Or if they are sincere about it then why is size a factor here? :dunno: (As of course there are certain limitations associated with that, but we are not talking about a village, this is a 3M metropolitan area)


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

nbcee said:


> Exactly. If they say this game is for only 10M+ cities from great powers than okay, the've set the record straight. But then why bother with Agenda 2020? :dunno: Or if they are sincere about it then why is size a factor here? :dunno: (As of course there are certain limitations associated with that, but we are not talking about a village, this is a 3M metropolitan area)


Agree completely, as long as we understand the difference between "fully entitled to compete" and "fully entitled to get the bid".


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

$18 billion?! Or, even worse, $30 billion?! For a two-week sporting event?

That's ridiculous. But merely bidding for the games is costly. Chicago 2016 reportedly spent $50 million on its bid.

Previously, the architect of the Olympic stadium for 2020 and the Tokyo 2020 committee working with him - on a stadium that already has replaced another proposal that was judged too costly - forgot to include an area for the Olympic cauldron.

Meanwhile, USC looks like its plans for the renovation of the Los Angeles Coliseum are going to make a mess of the original simple design, ruining sight lines in the process. 

A saying to keep in mind: Trust no one. Even the organizers of Tokyo 2020. They originally were perceived as being likely to reflect the reliability and competency of a nation like Japan more so than one like Brazil. 




> *Talk of cost-cutting for 2020 Tokyo Olympics dominates Rio debriefing
> *
> Associated Press
> 
> ...


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

californiadreams said:


> If they had to do even more prepping for a games - such as building a totally brand-new stadium just for the games as Tokyo is having to do - I'd really say it was overkill for a two-week event.


Japan is and was building a new national stadium regardless of its bid for the Olympics.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> Japan is and was building a new national stadium regardless of its bid for the Olympics.


That's pretty marginal reasoning. 

If it were ready and in use for a few years before the Olympics it would be easier to make that argument (ala LA Coliseum updates, Inglewood Stadium, LAFC stadium). Clearly just part of the local sports scene.

But when there is nothing specific before you get the Olympic bid AND you are focused on rushing to get construction bids, funding and work done at a break-neck pace specifically for the Olympics, you wonder if they might not have just gone without for awhile or done it more efficiently. 

Blame Japan or blame Hadid, the point is that they are rushing to get this done and costs, quality and efficiency are being questioned. And that rush is due to their commitment to host the Olympics.


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## erbse (Nov 8, 2006)

The ceremony shows are the key part of the Olympic Games. Don't be too stingy about it!


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

pesto said:


> I think any bidder would be well advised to spend less on ceremonies and more on security.
> 
> But unfortunately most people don't care much about the games themselves but will watch the big shows.


Scaling down ceremonies to an extent isn't a bad idea in itself, though I think that's already happened with London spending a lot less than Beijing and Rio spending a lot less than London. I think we're at a point now where the peaks of Beijing and Sochi will be in the past, and I personally wouldn't want to see hosts spending much less than Rio did on ceremonies.

Security has been a HUGE expense for every host particularly since 9/11. It's the biggest financial black-hole any host has to deal with - I say black hole because there's no legacy benefit from that money, no feel-good factor, it's just something which has to be spent.

The security budget for 21st century Olympics _absolutely dwarfs_ ceremony budgets. London, for example, spent around a billion pounds on security for 2012, and less than a tenth of that figure on ceremonies. I don't think hosts need to be advised to spend more on security as plenty is already budgeted for this.

It's a funny one though. So much is written about venue costs and their effect on cities deciding whether to bid or not, but hardly anything is written in the press about how much security budgets have (necessarily) ballooned this past decade. That _must_ have a not insubstantial negative impact on nations considering an Olympic bid, because there are no legacy benefit afterwards, just the best part of £1bn gone, disappeared. And there's nothing the IOC can realistically do to help, it's just the world we live in.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> Scaling down ceremonies to an extent isn't a bad idea in itself, though I think that's already happened with London spending a lot less than Beijing and Rio spending a lot less than London. I think we're at a point now where the peaks of Beijing and Sochi will be in the past, and I personally wouldn't want to see hosts spending much less than Rio did on ceremonies.


But you're making the mistake of thinking that money by itself either makes or breaks an event, including an Olympics ceremony.

A lack of enough funds probably didn't force the planners into believing these extended segments where certain people are walking around the stadium were unavoidable during the event:






[/URL]


Athens 2004 could have saved a lot of money and actually had a less goofy looking segment if the budget hadn't been lavished on an awkwardly oversized, moving-arm cauldron. It's like a Bic lighter at a Star Wars Fans convention.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

erbse said:


> The ceremony shows are the key part of the Olympic Games. Don't be too stingy about it!


I will grant that they are huge attractions for television audiences and they are here to stay. But that just means that ratings wins out over substance.

The ceremonies don't bring home the idea of the intense, dedicated athlete working long into the night to perfect his strength, endurance and skills. In fact, they are aimed at a non-sports audience who would rather see cute kids and flag waving and such. Large parts of my family watch them and no sporting competitions at all.

Remember this is THE Olympics: the best of the best competing only once in 4 years. This is where inclusiveness means your right to get your brains beaten in by those who take the discipline seriously.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> Scaling down ceremonies to an extent isn't a bad idea in itself, though I think that's already happened with London spending a lot less than Beijing and Rio spending a lot less than London. I think we're at a point now where the peaks of Beijing and Sochi will be in the past, and I personally wouldn't want to see hosts spending much less than Rio did on ceremonies.
> 
> Security has been a HUGE expense for every host particularly since 9/11. It's the biggest financial black-hole any host has to deal with - I say black hole because there's no legacy benefit from that money, no feel-good factor, it's just something which has to be spent.
> 
> ...



So you try to disagree with me and end up agreeing after all. :lol: All I said was less money on shows and more on security is just common sense in today's world.

But you are a bit off if you believe that security is the same quality everywhere. You must have seen the recent terrorist in the UK explain that his group wouldn't get involved in UK terrorism because UK security is tough and France is so much easier a target. He actually got specific on why if you can find a transcript of his comments.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

pesto said:


> So you try to disagree with me and end up agreeing after all. :lol: All I said was less money on shows and more on security is just common sense in today's world.


It depends what you mean by that.

If you mean hosts should spend less on ceremonies because they're seen as profligate and more on security because it's increasingly necessary, but aren't actually connecting the two, then I agree to an extent.

If you mean recent hosts haven't spent enough on security (and that future hosts should spend "more"), or that money should be saved on ceremonies _so it can be spent on security_ then I disagree.

Your post was too vague for me to get which of these you meant unfortunately.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Ah heck!  You can't please everyone. 

I love the ceremonies, I can't wait to see what each city will do and how they represent their culture. In that sense, I wished LA84 would've represented more local flavor than being more the US trying to wow Moscow. 

I'm tired of flying ships and dancing bears. Children and cutesy shenanigans. 

If LA gets the games, I want to see more local history, Tongva natives, the Spanish settling missions, the wagon trail, the roaring 20's, how LA domesticated this wild west with water. But in a careful way, not too literal, London 2012 missed it when they went too literal. Tho the industrial segment was on point.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Kenni said:


> I'm tired of flying ships and dancing bears. Children and cutesy shenanigans.


I'm surfing through videos of past Olympic ceremonies and suddenly realize how much of them I've never seen before. I guess through the years I've tuned in to a broadcast, but - as what definitely occurred with Rio 2016's opening - find my attention and interest start wandering after awhile. So I start channel surfing. 

Part of that impatience or tedium is caused by moments like these: 







Once again, a young child is a featured part of the ceremonies - deja vu all over again! - either flying around the stadium or doing a singing number. But all of that offset by strangely, even creepily, costumed participants. Bizarreness apparently is now considered another mandatory aspect of Olympic ceremonies.

The girl singing was proceeded by a salute to tap dancing--and a little tap dancing goes a long way. But instead of honoring the oddness of Cirque de Soleil, the planners went in the opposite direction (and extreme) and featured a salute to people wearing plaid shirts:








It must now be built into the DNA of modern, 21st-century Olympic ceremonies - encoded forever after - that they'll always be a mess.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Kenni said:


> Ah heck!  You can't please everyone.
> 
> I love the ceremonies, I can't wait to see what each city will do and how they represent their culture. In that sense, I wished LA84 would've represented more local flavor than being more the US trying to wow Moscow.
> 
> ...


Well, for sure *I'm* not trying to please anyone! As if it wasn't obvious.

From a purist point of view, your view of LA is just another invention (the Tongva? no one has ever heard of them and for sure they had no influence on contemporary LA). Wagon trains? 99 percent of Angelinos arrived here by car or airplane. And nobody mentions oil, aerospace and agriculture as the drivers of 20th century growth; or diversified industrial, services and retail which account for 90 percent of employment.

How about this for opening ceremonies: invite the public and Olympic athletes to hangout at the beach. Nothing else; just let the locals and the invited guests meet each other for real instead of through institutionalized mythology, politics and PR invention.

Closing ceremonies: same thing.

And forget the media. They take everything out of the moment and twist it to find audience preconceptions.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> How about this for opening ceremonies: invite the public and Olympic athletes to hangout at the beach.


That may ultimately be the only solution to preventing another really bad Olympic ceremony from occurring. 

But guess what? 

Even that would be quickly screwed up by a host city's organizing committee.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

:lol: omg, you guys sound like crotchety old "get off my lawn"....folk. (jk)

Pestie, yes the Tongva, they may not know that name, but in abstract, as I said, everyone recognizes a segment of native culture. kay:

The beach? Have you thought that through? Talk about cliches. Like going to Paris and going to the Eiffel Tower.


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

If LA wins the Olympics, I'd love for the opening ceremonies have a segment related to the LA music scene. From surfer rock to electronic music. Speaking of electronic music, I was in a documentary regarding LA's rave scene. I make a cameo at 5:35.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

This rundown of the games in 1984 produced by a Brazilian network is in Portuguese, and using Youtube's closed captioned translator is so bad it's not worth even switching on. But there are at least visuals to look at, close-up scenes of the areas in the Coliseum where bronze plaques are located that haven't been filmed much before.

The president of those games over 30 years ago is interviewed - and speaks English - around 3:25. 

The real legacy - and what I'd consider the most meaningful one of them all (and not just buildings - or white elephants - or Olympic villages, or transit systems, or airports, or a lot of generally real-estate type of things that most people think of when "Olympic legacy" is mentioned) is shown around 13:46. 








If Los Angeles were chosen to host 2024, that would generate so much resentment and even anger in France (and probably elsewhere), based on a sense that a three-peat for LA not only wasn't fair, it was even greedy, that it would be best to play down the local connection - and any hint of politics - of such a games.

That's why I'd want its ceremonies - assuming they wouldn't be so botched up, as most recent Olympics have been, to be worthless one way or the other - to celebrate the world. So featuring local culture, much less a national one, wouldn't be my first choice. That's in spite of the Olympic charter saying an opening ceremony is supposed to highlight a host city's and country's way of life. 

But partly because LA hosted the games in 1984, and Atlanta held them in 1996, it would make sense if Los Angeles's organizing committee again made an innovation to Olympic tradition. So its ceremonies should celebrate the entire world. That also might make people far beyond LA a bit less pissed off.

But a non-provincial, non-local type of opening would make sense since Los Angeles really has been sort of the go-to fix-it person of the Olympics, helping the global athletic scene in the process. So an LA organizing committee should think of it as being the host for and of the world, more than for LA and of the US. 

I've rarely seen any segment of recent Olympic ceremonies that, at least in terms of costuming, is neither Cirque de Soleil bizarro or inscrutable, and also at the same time really profiles all the nations of the world. This is the tone that I'd want to see an LA Olympics committee strive for:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Kenni said:


> :lol: omg, you guys sound like crotchety old "get off my lawn"....folk. (jk)
> 
> Pestie, yes the Tongva, they may not know that name, but in abstract, as I said, everyone recognizes a segment of native culture. kay:
> 
> The beach? Have you thought that through? Talk about cliches. Like going to Paris and going to the Eiffel Tower.


You miss the point completely: I'm going to a part of LA to which is essentially natural and where people hang out; where there isn't a red carpet and cameramen and phonied-up backgrounds. It's more like going to Paris and hanging in one of the banlieus.

In any event it's just off the cuff; anyone who has an idea for a truly new opening and closing ceremony that doesn't reek of fascist control and uniformity should step up and get the ball rolling.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> That may ultimately be the only solution to preventing another really bad Olympic ceremony from occurring.
> 
> But guess what?
> 
> ...


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

pesto said:


> You miss the point completely: I'm going to a part of LA to which is essentially natural and where people hang out; where there isn't a red carpet and cameramen and phonied-up backgrounds. It's more like going to Paris and hanging in one of the banlieus.
> 
> In any event it's just off the cuff; anyone who has an idea for a truly new opening and closing ceremony that doesn't reek of fascist control and uniformity should step up and get the ball rolling.


Right, I get that. But what I'm saying is that THAT is already something that visitors do, so do we. So, in that sense it IS like going to Paris and being taken to the Eiffel Tower. I want to see more and do more, what is Paris really? i.e.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Credit where credit is due. France has started to roll out its security modernization with a clear focus on transit, large events and public spaces, all of which are relevant to the Olympics.

In large part the new model is a focus on public and business awareness and understanding, a move away from the historic “I’m smart; you’re dumb” approach toward the public. In addition administration and data analysis is being modernized although that hasn’t been mentioned publicly yet. 

Good timing because last month the US notified Europe that their analysis indicated a high risk of attacks in Europe for the holiday season.

Hollande has been saying that he is the ideal person to roll this out so he may view this as part of his legacy: the man who fixed French security rather than the man who presided over some of its worst moments.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

I've had my fill of Opening Ceremony chat. I feel like if the topic is that important it should have its own thread.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

This is newsworthy mainly because the idea is raised about two games being awarded at once. If the IOC has good sense and wants to stop the bidding process from being almost as bloated and controversial as the games themselves, they'd do exactly that.




> *Bach: Olympic bid process needs to change; 'too many losers'*
> 
> By Associated Press
> Published: 10:03 EST, 8 December 2016 | Updated: 10:03 EST, 8 December 2016
> ...


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

californiadreams said:


> This is newsworthy mainly because the idea is raised about two games being awarded at once. If the IOC has good sense and wants to stop the bidding process from being almost as bloated and controversial as the games themselves, they'd do exactly that.


It beggars belief that the IOC think this is a solution to anything, especially after witnessing the 2018/22 debacle from FIFA. So I really couldn't disagree with you more.

Everyone could see the problems it caused for FIFA. And in the end even they deemed their own experiment in trying this for the 2018/22 World Cups a "major mistake":



> "The problem is that if you have two World Cups to award, there can be made deals. It was a major mistake to choose both hosts at the same conference,” Walter de Gregorio, FIFA’s director of communication, said during the session.


Even Blatter (!) realised with hindsight how many problems it caused:



> The awarding of two World Cups simultaneously was deemed by many as a mistake that could have prompted collusion, and Blatter admits that he has regrets over the decision.
> 
> "Look at it this way: Anyone who works a lot makes mistakes from time to time," he said.
> 
> ...


Rather than introduce a process that can produce more collusion and conflict of interest - and thereby damage their reputation further - the IOC _*should*_ be working out why so many bids fall before they even reach the vote. They need more than anything to get cities like Rome, Hamburg, Stockholm, Oslo, Munich etc back on board. The problem isn't that certain cities lose, it's that many cities, after their bid is launched, pull-out.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

In truth, the IOC has left Doha off of its shortlist both times it bid for the Olympics. But don't let facts get in the way of a good argument. I'm not trying to paint the IOC as some kind of saintly, altruistic organisation which acts outside of its own self-interests because it clearly isn't, but accusations of things being rigged usually require more evidence than you've ever been willing to give. And comparisons with FIFA, which nearly collapsed last year under the weight of corruption and FBI involvement, are not actually fair.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

http://indianexpress.com/article/sp...t-for-paris-2024-olympics-bid-leader-4430303/

Some comments from Estanguet on the French bid.


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## Saiholmes (Jan 16, 2005)

> Olympic bid process needs to change: IOC president Thomas Bach
> 
> Signaling a potential radical change in the way Olympic host cities are chosen, IOC President Thomas Bach wants to revise the bidding process because it “produces too many losers.”
> 
> He wouldn’t rule out the possibility of awarding two games at the same time.


http://indianexpress.com/article/sp...ess-cities-ioc-president-thomas-bach-4418448/


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## fidalgo (Mar 10, 2007)

any olympic competition produces more losers than the bids


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

fidalgo said:


> any olympic competition produces more losers than the bids


Seriously? Anyone competing in the Olympics is already a multiple champion and winner at many different levels, including at least one national level. They are generally widely admired and emulated in their home countries.

Cities that lose the bid are out the money and usually facing severe popular and political criticism at home for wasting time and resources, with the spectacle dissuading other cities from bidding.

Can you catch the difference there?


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

No glitz, no glam....just LA.

61451298


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## Marsupalami (Jan 29, 2009)

^^

:lol:
intentional, or not, the irony hahahahaha


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Marsupalami said:


> ^^
> 
> :lol:
> intentional, or not, the irony hahahahaha


You never know, but I assume it was intentional since the point is that you cannot capture LA in any number of videos or descriptions because it is too big, changes too fast and isn't driven by historic rules.

I was reminded of this from a discussion this weekend of Rayner Banham's classic study "Los Angeles The Architecture of Four Ecologies". It posits 4 unique aspects of LA that makes it impossible for outsiders to understand it.

Immediately, he was attacked by critics from NY, Europe, etc., each saying he was wrong but in ways that were contradictory to each other. Everyone sees a tiny part of something beyond his comprehension and uses his existing prejudices to invent his own mythology to try to explain it.

That's why I suggested that the best opening ceremonies for the Olympics would be to invite the athletes and visitors to the beach and meet a few hundred different views of LA. None right, none wrong.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Yes. It is also wrong to convey the expected image...yes, even tho it is true that LA is all of that wonderful. The setting, the weather, Rodeo Drive, Hollywood glitz, Sunset Blvd. 

But we all know LA is much more, it provides an urban setting unlike any other for an Alpha Mega city. In most huge cities there is limited nature, yet we have mountain lions, coyotes, deer, etc, living among the lights.

I love to see daily regular life, people, the vibe of the city. :cheers:


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## Ioannes_ (Jun 12, 2016)

fidalgo said:


> any olympic competition produces more losers than the bids


The correct approach is that they always win the same:

*LONDON *3: 1908, 1948 y 2012

*PARÍS* 2+1: 1900, 1924 (2024)

*LOS ÁNGELES *2: 1932, 1984 (And aspiring back to 2024)

*ATHENS* 2: Justified by his centenary and to be the mother of the Games, although the people denigrate 2004, being a poor country, were great games, and ceremonies far superior to London.

*TOKIO* 2: 1964, 2020.

*BEIJING* 2: 2008, 2022. (and still say that the CIO is not influenced by the great powers ...)

*AND IN THE FUTURE:*

*Los Angeles or Paris,* to reward the loser of 2024.

*Berlin*: "the games of peace", sure to be the next European capital after Paris.

*Rome*: Another in need of redress.

*Munich*: Winter Games, sure.

*London*: no 3 without 4 ....

*Melbourne* (anniversary)

*New York* (lobby by Donald Trump)

After outstanding debts with countries of the first world: Doha, Chicago, Manchester, Some rich asian ...

*Games that will not be held in 50 years:*

*Africa
Stockholm
Helsinki*

*And poor devils *who will try and fail like Istanbul, Prague, Budapest, Buenos Aires, Santiago Chile, Casablanca, Venice, Madrid, etc.


.


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## Saiholmes (Jan 16, 2005)

> Los Angeles Would Host the Greenest Games in Olympic History
> 
> Los Angeles is committed to delivering the "Greenest Games" in Olympics history, LA 2024 Chairman Casey Wasserman said Monday while pointing to Mayor Eric Garcetti's recent "visionary" speech at the C40 Cities Climate Leadership Conference as evidence.
> 
> ...


http://patch.com/california/northhollywood/los-angeles-would-host-greenest-games-olympic-history


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

My confidence in a major LA 2024 committee member like Casey Wasserman is starting to wane. 

First, Casey implies that the new stadium in Inglewood will be better geared for Olympics ceremony. For an NFL Super Bowl half-time show, yes. But for a ceremony that's not too Cirque-de-Soleil kitschy and provincial? No. 

Now he's taking a leaf from Rio 2016 - in which its famous statue of Christ was flood lit in green during this year's Olympics - and trying to tout the environmental-friendly nature of a 2024 games in Los Angeles. 

If he and the 2024 committee really want to be truly eco-nice, they should cancel the idea of big international events taking place in LA, have everyone instead go home, turn off the lights, switch off the AC, and sit in the dark. That would be a far more significant way of saving energy than anything that can be done at a large two-week sporting event.

Given current trends, Casey might next recommend the official logo of an LA 2024 Olympics should be an abstract graphic reminiscent of Lisa Simpson giving, uh, oral.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> My confidence in a major LA 2024 committee member like Casey Wasserman is starting to wane.
> 
> First, Casey implies that the new stadium in Inglewood will be better geared for Olympics ceremony. For an NFL Super Bowl half-time show, yes. But for a ceremony that's not too Cirque-de-Soleil kitschy and provincial? No.
> 
> ...


A blast from the past. Back during Governor Moonbeam's first disastrous round as governor it was noted that in his vision of America's future would be lived "at home shivering in the dark"). 

But you know that nowadays you have to talk diversity, eco-friendly, renewable, organic and such about everything proposed, whether it's the Olympics or backyard parties.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

californiadreams said:


> If he and the 2024 committee really want to be truly eco-nice, they should cancel the idea of big international events taking place in LA, have everyone instead go home, turn off the lights, switch off the AC, and sit in the dark. That would be a far more significant way of saving energy than anything that can be done at a large two-week sporting event.


What a weird thing to get upset about. It seems doing what we already do - and that includes international sporting events - but doing them using fewer resources can only be win-win. That's the middle ground we want - the ideal - when it comes to doing things ecologically. It means we _don't_ have to lock ourselves in a dark room with no lighting.

Glad to see LA24 is taking this into account.

And apart from anything else, this bid process is a competition. If you actually thought about it, you'd realise this chimes exactly with your bid's mantra about not having to build anything new, about reuse and about smart venue planning. The eco stuff is so completely on-message for your bid, perhaps moreso than any other in this race. And with green-tech companies like Tesla on your doorstep, you're in a position to go further with this idea as well (utilising their solar tiles and fleet of eco-vehicles (London used BMW and Rio, Nissan) could be great, for example).

But far be it from me to praise LA


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## Vikusz (Oct 12, 2009)




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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

californiadreams said:


> My confidence in a major LA 2024 committee member like Casey Wasserman is starting to wane.
> 
> First, Casey implies that the new stadium in Inglewood will be better geared for Olympics ceremony. For an NFL Super Bowl half-time show, yes. But for a ceremony that's not too Cirque-de-Soleil kitschy and provincial? No.
> 
> ...


Dude, then stop breathing.....youre releasing to much Carbon Dioxide. :bash::nuts: Silly!

CA is way ahead of the US federal government when it comes to being energy efficient and setting up goals to achieve the Kyoto and Paris accords.

To better impress and keep in line with recent stadiums.....The LA Stadium in Inglewood makes sense... Casey is walking a fine line with what he thinks the IOC wants and with what the LA city council wants....The Coliseum. 

IMO, the LA city council had YEARS to modernize the Coliseum and didn't (for whatever the reason). They shouldn't be upset the opening ceremonies of today need a modern stadium and be visually stunning for the IOC to take notice. OC in LA Stadium and Track and Field events at the Coliseum.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> But you know that nowadays you have to talk diversity, eco-friendly, renewable, organic and such about everything proposed, whether it's the Olympics or backyard parties.


The type of politics, that struck a chord with the producers of the ceremonies in Rio and London - among other Olympics over the past many years - has definitely influenced the shape and nature of the opening and closing. That apparently was the reason Los Angeles 1984 and Atlanta 1996 were subtly snubbed at the beginning of the hokey opening of London 2012.

But regardless of one's politics, at least show some skill and good judgment when it comes to creative matters. The people responsible for Rio and London - or the ones who thought a fashion show should break out in the middle of the opening ceremony of Barcelona 1992, will undermine a games, time and time again.

I'm worried that Casey Wasserman, among others - or as was the case with 2012's Sebastian Coe - is the type who won't have the capability to filter out mediocre decisions.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

redspork02 said:


> Dude, then stop breathing.....youre releasing to much Carbon Dioxide. :bash::nuts: Silly!
> 
> CA is way ahead of the US federal government when it comes to being energy efficient and setting up goals to achieve the Kyoto and Paris accords.
> 
> ...


That argument is a tough one to make. If you really believe in energy conservation and related environmental issues, you won't have the Olympics at all. That was the position of the Italian FSM in stopping the Rome bid and of other eco-friendly groups in almost every city that has proposed bidding.

The PURPOSE of the Olympics is to generate travel to a given city so as to make money for construction companies, hotels, transit, restaurants, etc. These economic benefits to major corporations are how governments rationalize the huge amounts of taxpayer money they spend.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> The type of politics, that struck a chord with the producers of the ceremonies in Rio and London - among other Olympics over the past many years - has definitely influenced the shape and nature of the opening and closing. That apparently was the reason Los Angeles 1984 and Atlanta 1996 were subtly snubbed at the beginning of the hokey opening of London 2012.
> 
> But regardless of one's politics, at least show some skill and good judgment when it comes to creative matters. The people responsible for Rio and London - or the ones who thought a fashion show should break out in the middle of the opening ceremony of Barcelona 1992, will undermine a games, time and time again.
> 
> I'm worried that Casey Wasserman, among others - or as was the case with 2012's Sebastian Coe - is the type who won't have the capability to filter out mediocre decisions.


That's a perfectly bona fide concern.

But anything that smacks of the Olympics in one city being more or less eco-friendly than any other is what we call a "Mussolini argument". "Hey, why are you picking on me I killed a lot less people than Stalin or Hitler." Any way you slice it it's a huge eco-negative.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

redspork02 said:


> To better impress and keep in line with recent stadiums.....The LA Stadium in Inglewood makes sense... Casey is walking a fine line with what he thinks the IOC wants and with what the LA city council wants....The Coliseum.
> 
> IMO, the LA city council had YEARS to modernize the Coliseum and didn't (for whatever the reason). They shouldn't be upset the opening ceremonies of today need a modern stadium and be visually stunning for the IOC to take notice. OC in LA Stadium and Track and Field events at the Coliseum.


The problem with the new stadium in Inglewood is that its design looks better for NFL football than for a classic Olympics ceremony. 

However, if the people managing any future games in LA are the types who think recent Olympics have opened on a high note - and have been mah-velous - then they'll want the US president at the time of the next games in America to parachute into the stadium along with the Kardashians. If Kaitlin Jenner is still alive when those games occur, the producer probably will want the former Olympic star to waltz into Stan Kroenke's stadium dressed in a mumu, accompanied by Beyonce and Jay Z. 

That will be a stunning premiere.


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## LosAngelesSportsFan (Oct 20, 2004)

ya this is weird. The flame is let every 4th quarter of every USC game and has been for years. Its also lit during Rams games. Its doing just fine and im sure there will be another cauldron for the 2024 games if they use the Inglewood stadium.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

....


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

*Los Angeles*





*Paris*





*Budapest*


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

*Sneak Peak of City of L.A.’s ‘Follow the Sun’ Float That Celebrates The 2024 Olympic Bid*

http://www.pasadenanow.com/main/sne...n-float-that-celebrates-the-2024-olympic-bid/

*LA’s Rose Parade float aims to sway Olympic voters*

http://www.dailynews.com/lifestyle/20161227/las-rose-parade-float-aims-to-sway-olympic-voters


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## Saiholmes (Jan 16, 2005)

> New L.A. Rams stadium aims to be an indoor-outdoor entertainment experience
> 
> Think of the Los Angeles Rams’ new home in Inglewood as California’s largest indoor-outdoor entertainment space. But instead of a restaurant opening onto a dining patio or a retailer spilling onto a street, this design includes a 70,000-seat stadium, 6,000-seat performance venue and an open plaza embracing the breeze-filled Southern California air, but still fully covered from the elements by a translucent ETFE canopy.
> 
> ...


http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/12/29/los-angeles-rams-stadium-inglewood

Mark Williams, HKS lead architect on the project gives details about the world's most expensive stadium to be built


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

*Banc of California Stadium Goes Vertical
$350-million soccer stadium now rising in Exposition Park.*



> The dilapidated and underappreciated Los Angeles Memorial Sports Arena is long gone, and LAFC's $350-million Banc of California Stadium is now ready to rise in its place.
> 
> Passersby in Exposition Park may hae noticed that a tower crane now stands high above the corner of Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard and Figueroa Street, where vertical construction has now commenced for the 22,000-seat soccer venue...
> 
> ...*Banc of California Stadium is the first of several major developments slated to remake Exposition Park over the coming years, including a $270-million renovation of the Los Angeles Coliseum, a large-scaled mixed-use complex and potentially the Lucas Museum of Narrative Art.*


http://urbanize.la/post/banc-california-stadium-goes-vertical (full article!)

This is the stadium for Los Angeles FC, which will be used for football prelims in the latest venue plan, just fyi .

(oh and I've been off the site for awhile, happy belated holidays everyone!  )


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

aquamaroon said:


> *Banc of California Stadium Goes Vertical
> $350-million soccer stadium now rising in Exposition Park.*
> 
> 
> ...


Stunning view in that direction. For those not familiar with LA, the Coliseum is behind LAFC; the Natural History and Aerospace Museums (including the Endeavour, which was built locally) to the right, USC to the right of that. The parking lot behind the Coliseum will be the Lucas Mus. if it comes to LA.

In the background from the left, Westwood (UCLA), Century City, Beverly Hills, W. Hollywood, Beverly Center and the edge of Ktown (Koreatown).

The second range of mountains had snow this week, while to the left is the ocean where it was near 80 yesterday. Ski or surf.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Kenni said:


> I know what your getting at. Based on your past posts I think I know what you prefer...I do too. But, I've changed my perspective recently based on today's reality.
> 
> I'm not gonna say much more of what I would like for LA24 until September, but the ceremonies at the Rams Stadium is making much more sense, even tho a part of me feels I'm betraying myself.


That's what worries me. You at least have a greater sense of what Olympic traditions should be kept intact. Yet even you find yourself being lured by what's trendy or fashionable in 2016, much less what things will be like around 2024 or later.

I was being only partly sarcastic when I described what format a future Olympic opening ceremony in Los Angeles will follow, particularly if any LA committee decides to hold it in Stan Kroenke's place.

Cirque du Soleil and Mr Bean's snot rags, here we come!


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

garciaccaio said:


> That made the CO Rio save a lot of money, not spending in build a new olympic village with public or sponsors money.
> 
> Same for the venues, with a public private partnership to reduce costs... in fact the venues + village were cheapper than London. So please, stop saying bullshits about Rio. Everyone here know you clearly don't like Rio 2016 or any other recent host city that is not LA. It's enough.


You don't get the point I was attempting to make. I was trying to say that it's a joke for any Olympics committee to believe that the quality of its games depends heavily on how much is spent on them, regardless whether the money comes from private sponsors or taxpayers. 

Of course, it's an even bigger splat if the games turn out very mediocre or forgettable, while the public, at the same time, is stuck holding much of the bill. 

Montreal 1976 is among the most infamous examples of that. 

As for Rio 2016, look at this example of how a combination of poor decisions - whoever approved that cauldron contraption should be banished to spend the rest of his life at a crowded Costco or Walmart - and non-budget-related aspects such as lackluster attendance (notice the empty seats around the cauldron thingamajig) will spoil a games. 

However, the makeshift-looking stand under the cauldron and where the singer is standing possibly was related to a lack of enough money. But they could have saved money by dumping the silly rainfall effect.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RuFFy said:


> Kind of reminds me of that whackadoodle CityWatch who spent most of her online career posting google street view pics of power poles and recounting her one visit to downtown with her out of town guest in the skyscraperpage forum.


I'd like to meet that person and give her a big hug. She's my kind of Angeleno. 

The only other time I've been interested enough to contribute to this site was a discussion about what steps the city of Los Angeles should take to improve itself. 

It's more obvious today than in the past that a major reason the city doesn't look as good as it should - and why it can look oddly downtrodden or hard-up - is because of issues like utility equipment being left exposed all over the place. 

Is that the way things were done or have been done in cities like Paris or Budapest, for example?

One reason Paris has an advantage over LA - and certain other cities too - is because of people's visceral reaction to one compared with the other. 

Many of the officials on the IOC who'll be deciding which city should host the 2024 games will be reacting out of emotions. 

People generally react more positively to beauty, less so to the opposite of that.


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## Dan Caumo (Jul 2, 2007)

^^ It's not only visceral. Paris has amazing museums, cuisine, culture, architecture, urban plan, etc. Los Angeles has some interesting aspect but you can't compare to Paris. When people vote for Paris instead of Los Angeles they also consider that Paris never hosted the games after the "media era" with broadcasts (and now live streamings), while Los Angeles did and wasn't memorable for the audience (even if it changed the fiscal philosophy and the planning) in due to the boycott and the lack of creativity or lame choices for the ceremonies as the UFO.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Jim856796 said:


> I was already saddened to see Rio de Janeiro's Olympic Stadium not even have the Olympic Flame in front of the Candelaria Church shown on one of its videoboards during this year's Olympics or Paralympics, which is why I refused to watch the Rio Games this year. I do not want to see another Summer Olympics host city have to put its opening and closing ceremonies in a football-only stadium so the Olympic Stadium will be left with no flame/cauldron. Los Angeles's and Budapest's ceremonies suggestions are an indication that there is no such thing as a main Olympic Stadium anymore. This is why I will continue to stick with the Paris bid. Since when is it okay for football-only stadiums to be the Olympic Stadium of a Summer Games?
> 
> LA's Memorial Coliseum already has a place reserved for the Olympic Flame, yet UCLA won't let us do any renovation of the Coliseum the right way. If the New Inglewood Stadium hosts the opening and closing ceremonies, then the Coliseum's cauldron will be left empty (with no flame). And it was suggested at StadiumDB.com that the new football-only Ferenc Puskas Stadium may host the opening/closing ceremonies of the 2024 Games if Budapest is selected instead of its 50,000-capacity Olympic Stadium.


Wow. Dude, time to adjust your meds. You are getting very spacey and your priorities are bizarre.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> I'd like to meet that person and give her a big hug. She's my kind of Angeleno.
> 
> The only other time I've been interested enough to contribute to this site was a discussion about what steps the city of Los Angeles should take to improve itself.
> 
> ...


You are of course entitled to your opinions. And I do agree with telephone poles looking ugly.

But pretty much everything else you say appears to be way off from the way things work in the real world. Visceral reactions and emotions count as zeros in pretty much anything lasting more than a half hour and costing over $100. Especially financial decisions and decisions that you will be publicly held accountable for.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Dan Caumo said:


> ^^ It's not only visceral. Paris has amazing museums, cuisine, culture, architecture, urban plan, etc. Los Angeles has some interesting aspect but you can't compare to Paris. When people vote for Paris instead of Los Angeles they also consider that Paris never hosted the games after the "media era" with broadcasts (and now live streamings), while Los Angeles did and wasn't memorable for the audience (even if it changed the fiscal philosophy and the planning) in due to the boycott and the lack of cretivity or lame choices for the ceremonies as the UFO.


We already went through this some time ago. It's not particularly relevant how great a tourist city Paris is (in fact, LA has just about the same number of visitors in spite of being very remote from other dense population areas). 

Wouldn't you agree that more relevant criteria would be the economics of the city's plan, security considerations and the quality of the experience that athletes and visitors will have at the games? I think most people would and I hope that the three cities will prepare their submissions accordingly.


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## garciaccaio (Jun 8, 2016)

Dan Caumo said:


> ^^ It's not only visceral. Paris has amazing museums, cuisine, culture, architecture, urban plan, etc. Los Angeles has some interesting aspect but you can't compare to Paris. When people vote for Paris instead of Los Angeles they also consider that Paris never hosted the games after the "media era" with broadcasts (and now live streamings), while Los Angeles did and wasn't memorable for the audience (even if it changed the fiscal philosophy and the planning) in due to the boycott and the *lack of cretivity or lame choices for the ceremonies as the UFO.*


Did you say LA 84 lacked creativity and even quoted the UFO? You will suffer all Californiadreams's wrath. :devil: :lol:

May the force be with you :cheers:


Some guys here think the ceremonies should be like a military parade from the 40's - 70's...





californiadreams said:


> You don't get the point I was attempting to make. I was trying to say that it's a joke for any Olympics committee to believe that the quality of its games depends heavily on how much is spent on them, regardless whether the money comes from private sponsors or taxpayers.
> 
> Of course, it's an even bigger splat if the games turn out very mediocre or forgettable, while the public, at the same time, is stuck holding much of the bill.
> 
> ...


:nuts::nuts::nuts:

Bla bla bla... you've said about spending money, we told you Rio didn't spend so much money as you say... 

And then you talk about the cauldron relations to audience - attendance, and spoil a game... :nuts:

Really, I believe YOU don't get the point. Your goals are clear: talk negatives about Rio, anytime. Move on guy... Rio 2016 is over. It's better you care about LA 2024 ou 2028... It's the main themy from this thread.

Man, you have some bizarre priorities, look like an ancient trying to keep the world same as in the 40's.

And just to remember Rio 2016 opening ceremony.. Maybe you have a reprimanded love for the ceremony :lol:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> But pretty much everything else you say appears to be way off from the way things work in the real world. Visceral reactions and emotions count as zeros in pretty much anything lasting more than a half hour and costing over $100. Especially financial decisions and decisions that you will be publicly held accountable for.


But if not emotions or biases related to a city's appeal - including the way a city looks and feels to members of the IOC who'll be voting in September - then certainly reactions related to people's politics. That includes what's known as political correctness. So hard truths - and hard facts such as those regarding budgetary matters, crime levels, governmental stability - may be submerged to other things.

There will also be the emotions related to people feeling sad about a city that has been waiting for over 90 years to host the Olympics. Pity and tears likely will be flowing at the IOC's meeting next year. 

There will be emotions related to some people seeing France and Europe as reflecting the beauty and glory of egalitarianism! The US, by contrast, in their eyes will be a reflection of being too big for its britches! And too greedy and imperialistic to boot! 

If the visceral nature of politics wasn't a factor in the IOC's decisions, Brazil probably wouldn't have won the 2016 games.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

garciaccaio said:


> Did you say LA 84 lacked creativity and even quoted the UFO? You will suffer all Californiadreams's wrath.


You haven't been following all my postings here if you think I rate only Rio 2016 as being lackluster or not very good. Have you seen my comments about Atlanta 1996, London 2012, Moscow 1980, Athens 2004, Albertville 1992, etc? And, yes, Los Angeles 1984 too. I described that event as skirting the boundary of being too much like a Disney-theme-park or college/NFL football type of presentation.

You can see these 2 events as being off in various ways. 

Barcelona 1992 drags on way too long and the opera singer - is she Frankenstein's Bride? - was among an overuse of such performers at that year's opening ceremony. And closing too.

Los Angeles 1984, which uses a flag that's probably smaller than ideal, has a stadium announcer who's too reminiscent of people in charge of the loudspeakers at typical US outdoor events. The flag bearers being introduced by that announcer and then their waving makes me think of participants in a beauty pageant. Some of them waving again right before the hoisting of the flag, and the guys somewhat scrambling at the base of the flag pole, also look off or unrehearsed.

But the 1992 event, by taking place in darkness, has a gloomy vibe to it. The sunshine in 1984 seems friendlier and more appropriate for the "hello" of a two-week event being introduced to the world. 

The way the music was performed in 1984 is also much better than the drawn-out score used in 1992.


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## Saiholmes (Jan 16, 2005)

LA is an artistic melting pot and has inspired many people around the world.






Wiz Khalida & Charlie Puth at Dodger Stadium in Downtown Los Angeles

Wiz Khalida's "See You Again" video featuring Charlie Puth has hit 2 billion views on YouTube, making it only the second video to ever hit that milestone. 

http://www.billboard.com/articles/c...fa-charlie-puth-see-you-again-video-2-billion


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## garciaccaio (Jun 8, 2016)

*Allegorical car at the traditional Rose Parade today in Pasadena.*




























https://twitter.com/SurtoOlimpico


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## Saiholmes (Jan 16, 2005)

> 2017 Rose Parade live updates: Flora, fauna and fun with animals in this year's parade


https://twitter.com/RoseParade/status/815977886066741248/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
http://www.latimes.com/visuals/photography/la-me-rose-parade-20170101-photos-photogallery.html


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## potiz81 (Aug 9, 2005)

californiadreams said:


> Barcelona 1992 drags on way too long and the opera singer - is she Frankenstein's Bride? - was among an overuse of such performers at that year's opening ceremony. And closing too.
> 
> 
> The way the music was performed in 1984 is also much better than the drawn-out score used in 1992.


Agne Baltsa singing in greek language "Tha simanun oi kampanes" in an opening ceremony is one of the most epic moments of the modern olympic history. I wont bother explaining why it is epic, why this song is so important, what is its meaning, not even why the organisers choose this specific song in this specific language while the games were in Spain in 1992. Your comment says enough about why you won't understand a word.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

potiz81 said:


> Agne Baltsa singing in greek language "Tha simanun oi kampanes" in an opening ceremony is one of the most epic moments of the modern olympic history. I wont bother explaining why it is epic, why this song is so important, what is its meaning, not even why the organisers choose this specific song in this specific language while the games were in Spain in 1992. Your comment says enough about why you won't understand a word.


If people don't understand the significance it has no significance. I would agree that whoever was in charge of this should have been fired if many people did not understand. 

The basic law of marketing: it's not the VIEWER'S fault he is ignorant: it is the PR people's fault.


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## potiz81 (Aug 9, 2005)

Sure, it's PR's fault. They should have gone with an ABC phonic song just to be sure every bumpkin will get it easily.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Here's more of the LA2024 Tournament of Roses Parade Float presented by the City of Los Angeles.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

potiz81 said:


> Agne Baltsa singing in greek language "Tha simanun oi kampanes" in an opening ceremony is one of the most epic moments of the modern olympic history. I wont bother explaining why it is epic, why this song is so important, what is its meaning, not even why the organisers choose this specific song in this specific language while the games were in Spain in 1992. Your comment says enough about why you won't understand a word.


What really matters is whether the composition was memorable or not. It wasn't. 

The official Olympic hymn written by Spyridon Samaras over 100 years is fairly memorable and has withstood the test of time. What was played in Barcelona is more of a huh?!

Although it's good the planners in 1992 didn't use a well-known piece from Beethoven, for example, and created too much of a cliche, their choice still was weak. But if they absolutely had to include whatever the heck you say that music is (the title of the piece doesn't even translate into English), they should have presented it better. 

The singer is solo for most of that segment and it becomes monotonous. A non-memorable song that goes on for several minutes combined with an opera singer who's outfitted like Frankenstein's Bride is sort of analogous to London 2012's official logo. 

The song only starts to kick in when the choir joins her. But that's minutes after she has begun to sing. Way too long a gap.

Even a good bit of music can be presented quite differently.

2016 and 1984 come off with a different sense of formality not just because the official anthem is performed in one case by dozens of children and in another by over 1,000 adults, but also because the composition itself is orchestrated differently. 

The people who did the anthem in Los Angeles modified the end of Samaras's composition so that it actually was better than the original. The last seconds of the original are missing notes - as was the case in Rio - that would have given it a heroic or commanding punch, but which were added in 1984: 















The announcer in 1984 is really bad. Someone should have put tape over his mouth. When his comment makes it sound like that the guys raising the flag are specially trained to do that sort of thing, a big wince from the listerner is justified.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

pesto said:


> If people don't understand the significance it has no significance.


As far as I'm concerned, one of the best things about Olympic ceremonies (whether any particular one suites your tastes or not) is they give an insight into things outsiders might not know about but which are important to the country or city in question.

A good commentator should be able to explain what's going on to TV audiences if it's not instantly obvious. And those in the stadium will of course have programmes.

It'd be boring if every host just wheeled out easily understood cliches. I'd rather learn something new.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Kenni said:


> Here's more of the LA2024 Tournament of Roses Parade Float presented by the City of Los Angeles.


I wonder if any photos exist of the 3 classic cars that were carrying the grand marshals of the parade? I believe having more than one auto for that segment of the event is a first. But what really stood out to me were rather large Olympic logos attached to the front of each vehicle. I'm guessing that was done with legal authorization from the IOC, but since no one knows how the vote will go in September, that came off a bit too pushy. If people in the IOC saw or eventually see images of those cars and their tie-in to hyping LA 2024, I hope it's not a turnoff to them.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

In the current climate the IOC will see a city which supports its bid and will think "thank f*ck for that!"

Any positive PR the IOC can get right now is more than welcome, I'm sure.

But if you're worried, Paris was also being "pushy" this week


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

potiz81 said:


> Sure, it's PR's fault. They should have gone with an ABC phonic song just to be sure every bumpkin will get it easily.


And speaking of bumpkins, do you know how much Andy Warhol's PR people spent on developing the "significance" of the image of a painted soup can so that the unusually ignorant and pretentious bumpkins would have a story to tell about its significance?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> As far as I'm concerned, one of the best things about Olympic ceremonies (whether any particular one suites your tastes or not) is they give an insight into things outsiders might not know about but which are important to the country or city in question.
> 
> A good commentator should be able to explain what's going on to TV audiences if it's not instantly obvious. And those in the stadium will of course have programmes.
> 
> It'd be boring if every host just wheeled out easily understood cliches. I'd rather learn something new.


I agree completely. But you don't just shove it in people's faces. 

If you re doing a mediocre job, you hire people to make sure that viewers have some understanding of the meanings historically attached. If you are doing a first rate job, you encourage viewers to expand and modify meanings, create their own meanings, or reject meanings through satire or pointing out of contradictions.

Meaning is not static. It can't help but change as contexts change. We can only develop what it now means to us and share that with others.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> But if you're worried, Paris was also being "pushy" this week


That helps even things up a bit. But since one of the 3 candidate cities has admittedly hosted the games within the past 32 years, I feel that a bit more caution and humility are required in that case.

Someone was knocking me for ragging on Rio 2016. But I'm sure you're fully aware of what I've said about most Olympic games, 2012 included.

The video of the entrance of the flag in Los Angeles 1984, where some of the flag bearers are waving throughout and looking like they're trying to mimic your country's royalty when she's riding in her carriage down the streets of London, shows every games has its weak moments. 

Although I'm sure you'll feel defensive when the 2012 Olympics aren't praised and congratulated, even you have to admit there's something off about the segment when the Olympic flag entered the stadium in London.

Because the producer of 2012 was so political, that contributed to one reason his ceremony was such a mess. It was his politics that apparently made him purposefully exclude a listing of Los Angeles 1984 and Atlanta 1992 during an early segment of the opening. 

But forget the politics. The producer didn't even have good enough sense to select a better public announcer. The girl on the loudspeaker, for example, is the epitome of someone who sounds - as you folks phrase it - cheeky, if not like a smart-mouthed teenager. She should have been chewing gum during the time she was on the PA system to complete the effect.

Given the tastes and flakiness of the producer of London 2012's ceremonies, he probably also admired 2012's official logo.








I can easily see a committee in Los Angeles in the future - should it be responsible for hosting an Olympics - hiring someone who will screw things up as much as was done in 2012. Even more so since LA's reputation is more closely identified with bad Hollywood-ization than what's true of London and its film industry.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

> Because the producer of 2012 was so political, that contributed to one reason his ceremony was such a mess. It was his politics that apparently made him *purposefully exclude* a listing of Los Angeles 1984 and Atlanta 1996 during an early segment of the opening.


You keep saying that as if it's indisputable fact, but I've never heard any evidence of this.

You're entitled to your opinions on the ceremony and I'm not going to get defensive just because you didn't like it. But you can't just go making up your own facts. I've seen _one_ article mentioning the missing posters in that very short segment and it seems to me it could be for any number of reasons e.g. inability to get clearance from whoever owns the copyright to them, for example. You've chosen to put a political interpretation on what was (iirc) a very, very short animation. It seems to me you're trying to be offended.

Anyway, it feels like I've read the above post about 300 times now. Most of what you post in this thread isn't about this bid race and tends to just wash over me now..sorry....


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> I've seen _one_ article mentioning the missing posters in that very short segment and it seems to me it could be for any number of reasons e.g. inability to get clearance from whoever owns the copyright to them, for example. You've chosen to put a political interpretation on what was (iirc) a very, very short animation. It seems to me you're trying to be offended.


Maybe the producer inadvertently omitted references to Los Angeles 1984 and Atlanta 1992 because of bad taste. After all, much of what made 2012's opening so fatuous had little or nothing to do with politics.

Personally, I don't care about the politics of a person involved in a major creative undertaking, such as Olympics ceremonies. But the person who's making major decisions, regardless whether he's Tory or Labour, should at least have a sense of the quality of something, and what's good or what's bad. 

If the producer of London 2012's opening also had a say in the game's official Olympic logo, would he have approved it? My hunch is he would have. He might have even thought it was an appropriately raised middle finger to the establishment and old-time tradition. Or he might not have liked it but thought it was good enough.




> *Opening ceremony was a Trojan horse for socialist values, says Labour MP *
> 
> Backbencher Paul Flynn praises Danny Boyle for 'smuggling' ideas on NHS and pacifism into Olympic show
> 
> ...


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## ticosk8 (Aug 14, 2007)

Saiholmes said:


> https://twitter.com/RoseParade/status/815977886066741248/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
> http://www.latimes.com/visuals/photography/la-me-rose-parade-20170101-photos-photogallery.html


Why is there a picture of Donald Trump (on the top right corner of the pic) in this allegorical car? :lol:


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

(^^ not Trump) :lol:



californiadreams said:


> I wonder if any photos exist of the 3 classic cars that were carrying the grand marshals of the parade? I believe having more than one auto for that segment of the event is a first. But what really stood out to me were rather large Olympic logos attached to the front of each vehicle. I'm guessing that was done with legal authorization from the IOC, but since no one knows how the vote will go in September, that came off a bit too pushy. If people in the IOC saw or eventually see images of those cars and their tie-in to hyping LA 2024, I hope it's not a turnoff to them.



Yes, LA2014 was "pushy" this past weekend.  










I can't find pics of the Grand Marshall's cars.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Kenni said:


> Yes, LA2014 was "pushy" this past weekend.
> 
> I can't find pics of the Grand Marshall's cars.


A minor FYI, but that photo of the three grand marshals was taken a few months ago when their selection was first announced. As for January 2, I was surprised by the way the parade planners placed fairly large Olympic logos on the front side of the 3 cars. I don't believe autos for a grand marshal of that parade have ever been customized to that degree. I'd rather not see the Rose Parade organization having egg on its face when next January rolls around. 

The thing about their event is it was originally mainly an American tradition, but it has since become one with international involvement, particularly as host of marching bands and sponsors from Asia. 

Los Angeles, because of its fairly young history, is a clean slate when it comes to cultural=national traditions. So unlike cities that are centuries old, LA is sort of a chameleon and can more easily reflect the entire world. I like that about the LA region. 

The last segment of 1984's opening, which was a salute to the entire world, may be more fitting for a city similar to LA. If it ever hosts another Olympics, I hope that's the direction it goes in. Although something really provincial like Atlanta 1996 or London 2012 is what I fear we'd end up with.

Regarding the singer from Barcelona 1992, I wondered if I was being too hard on the way she looks, that maybe she was of African descent. So joking about her being reminiscent of Frankenstein's Bride at the 1992 Olympics was even a bit racially insensitive? But this is a more recent image of Agnes Baltsa, known in the opera world as a mezzo-soprano.












Back in 1992 she at least wasn't dressed up like a Cirque du Soleil whatchamacallit or a giant "WTF?!" Or a nurse from the National Health Services or a person outfitted like a flower riding a tricycle.


Here's a photo of one of the three cars of the grand marshals, all of the vehicles having the Olympic logo on the front. I thought the IOC had rules about candidate cities not being allowed to use the five rings except in a fairly limited, proscribed way. Although I'm not sure that applies to an outside group like the operators of the parade. I didn't mention the event also had participants representing places outside of Asia, namely Mexico and Armenia.


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## Saiholmes (Jan 16, 2005)

*Rose Bowl in Southern California - America's Stadium*
The Rose Bowl is nicknamed "The Granddaddy of Them All" because it is the oldest bowl game.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

californiadreams said:


> I thought the IOC had rules about candidate cities not being allowed to use the five rings except in a fairly limited, proscribed way. Although I'm not sure that applies to an outside group like the operators of the parade.


If it is a promotion for the bid and the Olympic Games, the candidate cities, of which there are only 3 anyway, they can use the 5 rings in many ways. Also, you forget that LA, like Paris, is already a 2x Olympic host, so it's not like the 5 rings is something entirely new to the people of LA. There are 5 rings ALL over the cities; there's even an Olympic Boulevard there. So being nit-picky about the 5 rings in the cars and the float, is just being fault-finding and petty. It's NOT like the IOC would go bankrupt overnight if it did not collect royalties from the appearance of their rings in a civic event.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Well, but the parade is every year, and they don't use the 5 rings every year. So, it is safe to say it is associated to LA2024.

Thanks for mentioning Olympic Boulevard....before it was renamed eons ago after 1932, it was....(wait for it)...10th St.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

madhuckfinn said:


> Stunned by the sheer immensity of this development. A side-by-side comparison of the Rams' current and future stadium lands demonstrates just how big the Inglewood property is.
> 
> Even discounting the huge plot of land to the east of the old racetrack, where the stalls and practice track were, the Inglewood property still swallows up all of Exposition Park, its museums, park-land, stadiums, arenas, parking lots, and about half of the USC campus.


Nice comparison. Thank MHF.


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## Saiholmes (Jan 16, 2005)

> L.A. organizers propose linked, simultaneous Olympic ceremonies for Coliseum, Inglewood stadium
> 
> As LA 2024 officials finalize their bid to bring the Summer Olympics back to Southern California, they have faced a difficult choice regarding the location of the opening and closing ceremonies.
> 
> ...


http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-la2024-olympic-ceremonies-20170116-story.html


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## GilbyDM101 (May 23, 2006)




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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

_"In documents to be submitted to the International Olympic Committee early next month, bid leaders describe simultaneous, linked ceremonies that begin at one venue and conclude at the other."_
_
"According to plans made public on Monday, the opening ceremony would begin at the Coliseum, where a runner would carry the torch down the peristyle steps and around a temporary, raised track before embarking on a cross-town relay along city streets.

The Olympic flame would ultimately arrive in Inglewood, where a separate crowd of up to 100,000 spectators would gather to watch the traditional Olympic protocol, including the athletes’ parade, various oaths and the lighting of the cauldron.

The 70,000 or so fans left behind at the Coliseum would be entertained by musical performances and could watch the Inglewood proceedings remotely. LA 2024 Chairman Casey Wasserman said the production would make use of “all of our city’s Hollywood storytelling and technology.

The moment the Olympic cauldron is lighted in Inglewood, the iconic torch above the Coliseum would also ignite and serve as the official flame throughout the Games.

*Seventeen days later, the process would be reversed*, with the closing ceremony beginning at Rams stadium — which will also be home to the newly arrived Chargers — and ending in Exposition Park where the flame would be officially extinguished.”_

LA Times


That is interesting...I think this might work! :cheers: I think they hit a home run with this concept!!!


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## LosAngelesSportsFan (Oct 20, 2004)

This is an EXCELLENT idea. Tie in the history and the future, bring something new to the table and allow all the hollywood producers to shine! Good job LA committee


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

OnwardsAndUpwards said:


> Ceremonies are there to throw a bone to people who don't actually like sport that much. To get them involved. They have a secondary purpose of welcoming the athletes.
> 
> If LA wins then people around the world want a bit of Hollywood showbiz.
> 
> ...


Agree completely. The point that no one even vaguely knows what they will be like when the selection is made gets to the heart of the matter: they are really just a fund-raiser for the real show.


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

That's a great idea. Wow LA is totally nailing this Olympic thing. Paris and Budapest really need to come up with something grand because it's looking more and more that LA is leading the 3.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> This is an EXCELLENT idea. Tie in the history and the future, bring something new to the table and allow all the hollywood producers to shine! Good job LA committee


Agree on this. A nice compromise and concept that could actually be interesting and enlightening if executed right (we can always hope :lol.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

^^ Wow I agree, color me impressed! Though I didn't write it here I personally thought that they might incorporate the lighting of the cauldron in that way; i.e. light it at the Coliseum and do a cross town relay to Inglewood. However, I didn't imagine they would reverse the order for the closing ceremonies and that is a great idea! It also allows for the IOC and the LA Games to sell TWO stadiums' worth of tickets, increasing the ceremonies revenue by additional 70,000 plus seats. Financially and creatively I think this ceremony design is a home run!

p.s. One thing in the video though, it looks like the giant screen over the suite tower is no longer there. That was the best part of the design, what the heck man?! Man, LA 2024 just loves breaking my heart with the Coliseum/Aquatics center  :lol:


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Kenni said:


> _"In documents to be submitted to the International Olympic Committee early next month, bid leaders describe simultaneous, linked ceremonies that begin at one venue and conclude at the other."_
> _
> "According to plans made public on Monday, the opening ceremony would begin at the Coliseum, where a runner would carry the torch down the peristyle steps and around a temporary, raised track before embarking on a cross-town relay along city streets.
> 
> ...


It leaves out a 3-peat stroke. And remember, this will still need a decade to play out.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

Here's a larger photo of the planned Ceremonies. FYI, to orient the picture:

- The main stadium with the Olympic Logo on the roof is L.A. Stadium, the new NFL stadium being built in Inglewood and that has a planned completion date of 2019. (the stadium will certainly have a sponsored name, but for the Olympics it would probably just go by "L.A. Stadium")
- Next to L.A. Stadium is the Forum, a ~18,000 seat arena that will be home to the artistic gymnastics/trampoline competition.
- In the distance the larger stadium is the L.A. Memorial Coliseum, the venue for Athletics and the stadium that hosted the ceremonies in 1932 and 1984.
- Next to the Coliseum, the smaller venue is Banc of California Stadium, a 22,000 seat soccer specific stadium that would be home to the Football prelim competition.
- The lit up road between the two venues I believe represents the torch relay. However, in real life the stadiums aren't actually that close and artistic license was used in the picture. It's about 7 miles (11.2 km) or so between them with the route they would probably use.
- In the distance is the Hollywood sign lit up by searchlights, something that doesn't normally happen. Would be a pretty nice touch!


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

I also see fireworks lining up the streets of the relay connecting both stadiums. 

So, the historic cauldron at the Coliseum will be the oficial torch, but there will be a secondary one lit at the LA Stadium in Inglewood.






 I'm happy.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Kenni said:


> I also see fireworks lining up the streets of the relay connecting both stadiums.
> 
> .


Not gonna happen. Insurance & fire reasons. They had to cut back in Beijing; and even for LA 1984, the Fireworks show for Closing was greatly scaled back because of Fire Marshalls' directives throughout all of LA County.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Knitemplar said:


> Not gonna happen. Insurance & fire reasons. They had to cut back in Beijing; and even for LA 1984, the Fireworks show for Closing was greatly scaled back because of Fire Marshalls' directives throughout all of LA County.


Ok, but they can do it digitally, like they did the footprints in Beijing.


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## CaliforniaJones (Apr 9, 2009)

Proposition for Olympic torch Bearers:

* Los Angeles: Magic Johnson or 1992 Dream Team
* Paris: Zidane


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## Saiholmes (Jan 16, 2005)




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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

So far Casey Wasserman and Janet Evans, or whoever the top people are in the effort to bring the Olympics to LA, are showing fairly good judgment. 

The bid logo they chose awhile back was a nice change - something figurative instead of abstract (although some graphic purists didn't like it) - and I hope any formal, final logo, should the IOC give another games to LA, would be of similar appeal. 

The bid books and the web site have been quite professional too. 

The way they're handling the two stadiums and shared ceremonies appears to be well thought out. I like how one member of the bid committee said it was a way to avoid too much of a "been there, done that" feeling about the proposed games. 

Of course, the devil is in the details. 

The duo-ceremony concept will be an interesting first for an Olympic games, and if it were to occur, it would add to LA's history of adding innovation to the Olympics. But it will certainly increase both the cost and complexity of that part of a games in LA.

Whether a singular or duo ceremonies - or when it comes to any other aspect of a future Olympics in LA - I'd be really pissed if an LA committee were to screw up the event the way Sebastian Coe and his people did to London 2012 - with its lousy logo and C-grade ceremonies - much less what the people responsible for 2016 did to Rio. Or what planners at other games have done, including the committee behind Atlanta 1996.

It's a tough task and big mistakes - or poor decisions - are always lurking in the background.

If organizers for any future Olympics in LA can't do a first-class job, then it's best the city doesn't ruin its legacy and get awarded a games it can't pull off.

Who knows how this all plays out in September. But the news today does give an added kick to LA's bid.


----------



## BlazerBlaze (Jul 21, 2013)

I love how they make the 7.5 miles between the Coliseum and Inglewood look like its a half mile.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

californiadreams said:


> So far Casey Wasserman and Janet Evans, or whoever the top people are in the effort to bring the Olympics to LA, are showing fairly good judgment.
> 
> The bid logo they chose awhile back was a nice change - something figurative instead of abstract (although some graphic purists didn't like it) - and I hope any formal, final logo, should the IOC give another games to LA, would be of similar appeal.
> 
> ...


Cost. I don't think they will spend too much on anything at the Coliseum for the opening ceremonies, the bulk of it will be at Inglewood. For the closing it will be the oposite. 

So don't think that there will be two ceremonies going on at the same time.

Plus, now they will be selling twice the amount of tickets, that should cover it.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> allow all the hollywood producers to shine!


The person responsible for the mess of Atlanta 1996 - a well-known TV-movie producer based in LA - was one of those members of Hollywood. That's why I feel LA was partially or indirectly responsible for ruining those games. That's why I hope the organizers of any future Olympics in LA always keep such things in mind.

It also shows why Los Angeles in 1984 dodged a bullet, because what was done to Atlanta 1996 could have easily been done to Los Angeles 12 years earlier. 

Wanting to avoid that at all costs is why I've been focusing on the impact of a ceremonies on an Olympic games. Even more so when a study of the history of 1984 shows that the opening helped soothe a lot of the nerves, cynicism and skepticism of the Olympic movement at that time. An event unveiled in the summer of 84 shadowed by matters like bloodshed at Munich, huge cost overruns at Montreal, cold-war politics before and after Moscow, just two cities in 1977, Tehran and LA, wanting to bid for the games, the Soviet boycott, etc.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Kenni said:


> So don't think that there will be two ceremonies going on at the same time.


I personally hope that most of that event would be held in the brightness of friendly sunshine instead of in the gloom of nighttime. A closing has traditionally taken place in the evening, which makes sense. But switching to a late-day schedule starting in 1992 has made most of the opening indistinguishable from a closing. 

Regardless, I just wish any games in LA will be managed by people who have enough sense to avoid the foo-foo fey-ness of a Cirque du Soleil. That definitely is a format that for an Olympics has become "been there, done that."

And no fashion runway shows too.

Or bad musical acts.

Or pick-up trucks.

Thank you.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

californiadreams said:


> I personally hope that most of that event would be held in the brightness of friendly sunshine instead of in the gloom of nighttime.


Uh-huh. Why would they prefer a roofed stadium over a roofless one only to have a "daylight" ceremony? :nuts: 

They won't put the Ceremonies portfolio out to tender until about 2025; 3 years before Opening day in July 2028. 

It's all a LONG WAY off.


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## CxIxMaN (Jun 12, 2009)

Kenni said:


> Ok, but they can do it digitally, like they did the footprints in Beijing.


Being the home of Hollywood, where many big action movies are made, LA better a good job making very realistic CGI not the poor job that was done in Beijing and London's opening sequence.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

aquamaroon said:


> Here's a larger photo of the planned Ceremonies. FYI, to orient the picture:
> 
> - The main stadium with the Olympic Logo on the roof is L.A. Stadium, the new NFL stadium being built in Inglewood and that has a planned completion date of 2019. (the stadium will certainly have a sponsored name, but for the Olympics it would probably just go by "L.A. Stadium")
> - Next to L.A. Stadium is the Forum, a ~18,000 seat arena that will be home to the artistic gymnastics/trampoline competition.
> ...


At LA Stadium......Do I see a Pool?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

redspork02 said:


> At LA Stadium......Do I see a Pool?


I see a lake but no pool. Maybe it's a football pool? :lol:

I would guess the smallish square area is a field of some kind. Or do you mean the part of the lake that is sort of separated off?


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Oh Yeah! I also love the homage idea to the Coliseum during the opening of the OC. Sells extra ticks. More fans, more of the community, more artists involved. More production value....Its a great idea. AND hopefully the city council will drop its concerns about Inglewood. 

Besides, isn't St Denis not in Paris as well?


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

pesto said:


> I see a lake but no pool. Maybe it's a football pool? :lol:
> 
> I would guess the smallish square area is a field of some kind. Or do you mean the part of the lake that is sort of separated off?


Look closer. Its a pool stadium set up within the Lake. and to the left is another? HMMMMM?


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

redspork02 said:


> Oh Yeah! I also love the homage idea to the Coliseum during the opening of the OC. Sells extra ticks. More fans, more of the community, more artists involved. More production value....Its a great idea. AND hopefully the city council will drop its concerns about Inglewood.
> 
> Besides, isn't St Denis not in Paris as well?


This could potentially be the largest opening ceremony. If you can put 90K in the Coliseum + 70K at Inglewood Stadium, you could have upwards of 160K+ people in attendance at both stadiums. That might not happen again.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

redspork02 said:


> Oh Yeah! I also love the homage idea to the Coliseum during the opening of the OC. Sells extra ticks. More fans, more of the community, more artists involved. More production value....Its a great idea. AND hopefully the city council will drop its concerns about Inglewood.
> 
> Besides, isn't St Denis not in Paris as well?


Technically, true. And Wembley is not in historic London, etc. City limits are just a nuisance when you are talking about events that effect a whole metropolitan area.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

redspork02 said:


> Look closer. Its a pool stadium set up within the Lake. and to the left is another? HMMMMM?


I saw those too!! I didn't know what to make of them, since the Aquatics center is going to be at USC. Or IS IT? :hmm: :lol:


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## slipperydog (Jul 19, 2009)

*LA 2024 UNVEILS THREE FINAL VENUES IN “NO SURPRISES” GAMES PLAN*



> _LA 2024 today announced its proposed locations for archery, modern pentathlon and mountain biking, completing a full set of existing, planned or temporary venues with no permanent venue construction required.
> 
> The venues announced today underline LA 2024’s philosophy of creating a high-tech, low-risk “no surprises” Games Plan which guarantees a world-class field of play and stunning settings for every sport. *Archery will take place in the extraordinary surroundings of the new, state-of-the-art LA Stadium and Entertainment District at Hollywood Park. Mountain biking will be hosted at the spectacular Frank G. Bonelli Regional Park in San Dimas, and modern pentathlon is to be staged at the multi-use StubHub Center in the LA 2024 South Bay Sports Park.* All three locations were chosen following extensive consultation and collaboration with their respective International Federations and National Governing Bodies, as well as experienced venue owners and operators.
> 
> ...











FULL RENDERING: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1356850/Archery.jpg









FULL RENDERING: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1356850/ModernPentathalon.jpg









FULL RENDERING: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1356850/MountainBiking.jpg


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

Wow well there you go! archery on the water by L.A. Stadium! Lot to go on with these renders, but for now I'll just say good job LA 2024! :cheers:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Knitemplar said:


> Uh-huh. Why would they prefer a roofed stadium over a roofless one only to have a "daylight" ceremony? :nuts:


Not sure why that would influence whether the ceremony is held during the day or evening since I believe that roof is going to be translucent. 

If an Olympics ceremony were held there, I think that would be the first time such an event would take place in a stadium with a full roof. I'm personally not a big fan of domed stadiums, unless they're located in an area that receives lots of rainfall or snow. However, a totally exposed stadium does have the drawback of making spectators sit out and bake in hot sunlight. That's a big complaint many users have had of the new Levi's Stadium up north in Santa Clara.

The only venue for LA 2024 that I have a big question - and concern - about is the swim stadium. Competition in swimming and diving has been proposed for a supposedly temporary site on the USC campus where a baseball field currently exists. How can even a basic yet hopefully professional and well-designed set of swimming pools be temporary? 

I can't imagine Olympic-sized pools being similar to inflatable wading pools easily set up for kids in someone's backyard, and then quickly dismantled after the summer. 

If there's one thing the LA area has long lacked, it's a large, first-class indoor swim stadium.

I wonder if the USOC should have been so absolute about 2024 being the only games this country will be striving for. So the message to the IOC from LA/USOC is: Our way or the highway. 

All the fairly good planning and promotion by the LA bid committee, in tandem with the USOC, will fall like a big splat on people's faces in the US if the IOC chooses Paris over LA this September. Because many people tend to have sympathy for underdogs, such as places that have waited over 90 years for a games and been rejected repeatedly in the past, the odds are still high that is exactly what's going to happen.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

californiadreams said:


> Not sure why that would influence whether the ceremony is held during the day or evening since I believe that roof is going to be translucent.
> 
> If an Olympics ceremony were held there, I think that would be the first time such an event would take place in a stadium with a full roof. I'm personally not a big fan of domed stadiums, unless they're located in an area that receives lots of rainfall or snow. However, a totally exposed stadium does have the drawback of making spectators sit out and bake in hot sunlight. That's a big complaint many users have had of the new Levi's Stadium up north in Santa Clara.
> 
> ...


Yes, yes and triple yes! To me, this is the elephant in the room of the LA 2024 bid; the biggest deficiency of the LA 2024 bid is the Swimming venue. It is the single venue that is most lacking in the whole LA Olympics plan: a world class swimming arena. It's especially shocking when you consider that EVERYTHING ELSE is already built. By the time the games roll around, L.A. will have a world class football Stadium, several world class arenas, beautiful scenery and a fantastic athletics stadium (I would like an open air roof on it but YMMV). If everything else is taking care of, why is it so hard for LA 2024 to invest in a world class Aquatics center that will be used long after the IOC leaves town? There is even space in Expo Park, just get rid of the LA 84 swim center and build it there!
Oh well, I feel like bringing this up is like tilting at windmills, but I still hold onto hope against hope that LA 2024 will find the courage to propose a world class aquatics venue befitting a world class Olympic city.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

californiadreams said:


> I personally hope that most of that event would be held in the brightness of friendly sunshine instead of in the gloom of nighttime. A closing has traditionally taken place in the evening, which makes sense. But switching to a late-day schedule starting in 1992 has made most of the opening indistinguishable from a closing.
> 
> Regardless, I just wish any games in LA will be managed by people who have enough sense to avoid the foo-foo fey-ness of a Cirque du Soleil. That definitely is a format that for an Olympics has become "been there, done that."
> 
> ...


I disagree. LA has done both Olympics in the light....and I hated it. Theatrics are mostly done in the dark, it concentrates the attention of the attendees to the performance.

Lighting is a HUGE part of the show, and people jumping around in the day time on the field has no entertainment value, people start looking outside at the passing plane or the bird flying, add lights and cool gadgets...now we're talking.



redspork02 said:


> At LA Stadium......Do I see a Pool?


Where have you been  that lake has been part of the plan.....I want to say, from day _uno_!


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Kenni said:


> I disagree. LA has done both Olympics in the light....and I hated it. Theatrics are mostly done in the dark, it concentrates the attention of the attendees to the performance.
> 
> Lighting is a HUGE part of the show, and people jumping around in the day time on the field has no entertainment value, people start looking outside at the passing plane or the bird flying, add lights and cool gadgets...now we're talking.
> 
> ...



I think redspork2 already knew about the pool; but there is a bit of it that is cut-off and appears to have stands around it. He thought it might be for swimming but now it looks like it is archery that will be conducted over water.

OK LA Committee: I give up, you have totally blown me away.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Kenni said:


> I disagree. LA has done both Olympics in the light....and I hated it. Theatrics are mostly done in the dark, it concentrates the attention of the attendees to the performance.
> 
> Lighting is a HUGE part of the show, and people jumping around in the day time on the field has no entertainment value, people start looking outside at the passing plane or the bird flying, add lights and cool gadgets...now we're talking.
> 
> ...


Yes Kenni, I knew about the Lake, I just saw with my tiny eye a sports venue on the lake, thought it might have been swimming or a water event but I guess I got ahead of the LA24 Committees announcement. lol...As it turns out it was the Archery Venue!!! TOTALLY COOL! I Approved. LOL





pesto said:


> I think redspork2 already knew about the pool; but there is a bit of it that is cut-off and appears to have stands around it. He thought it might be for swimming but now it looks like it is archery that will be conducted over water.
> 
> OK LA Committee: I give up, you have totally blown me away.


I agree, I'm totally amazed.....!!!! Is City Hall up for anything? Grand Park? I thought Archery was scheduled for Grand Park?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

aquamaroon said:


> Yes, yes and triple yes! To me, this is the elephant in the room of the LA 2024 bid; the biggest deficiency of the LA 2024 bid is the Swimming venue. It is the single venue that is most lacking in the whole LA Olympics plan: a world class swimming arena. It's especially shocking when you consider that EVERYTHING ELSE is already built. By the time the games roll around, L.A. will have a world class football Stadium, several world class arenas, beautiful scenery and a fantastic athletics stadium (I would like an open air roof on it but YMMV). If everything else is taking care of, why is it so hard for LA 2024 to invest in a world class Aquatics center that will be used long after the IOC leaves town? There is even space in Expo Park, just get rid of the LA 84 swim center and build it there!
> Oh well, I feel like bringing this up is like tilting at windmills, but I still hold onto hope against hope that LA 2024 will find the courage to propose a world class aquatics venue befitting a world class Olympic city.


I think the rap on swim facilities of Olympic size is that they lie unused afterwards since that level of seating and multiple pools is rarely needed. Temporary facilities seems appropriate in such a case.


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## slipperydog (Jul 19, 2009)

redspork02 said:


> I agree, I'm totally amazed.....!!!! Is City Hall up for anything? Grand Park? I thought Archery was scheduled for Grand Park?


Cycling, race walking, and marathon I believe.



pesto said:


> I think the rap on swim facilities of Olympic size is that they lie unused afterwards since that level of seating and multiple pools is rarely needed. Temporary facilities seems appropriate in such a case.


Which is why a temporary swimming/diving complex in the Inglewood stadium would be perfect.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

pesto said:


> OK LA Committee: I give up, you have totally blown me away.


Me too! And I believe you because you don't get excited about anything! :lol:

This committee is killing it! But watch out, *Paris* is now preparing a counter attack. :cheers:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Kenni said:


> Me too! And I believe you because you don't get excited about anything! :lol:
> 
> This committee is killing it! But watch out, *Paris* is now preparing a counter attack. :cheers:


Maybe this is the start.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/16/news/eiffel-tower-paris-2024-olympic-bid/

Paris Mayor HIdalgo notes that Paris needs to compete against LA’s prowess as a tourist destination and has decided to spend 320M on cleaning, fixing elevators, new security, etc., for the Eiffel Tower. Yes, that number is correct: $320 million. About the same as Banc of California stadium.

They have also advised that they will be using an abandoned hangar at one of their smaller airports for some competitions.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Kenni said:


> I disagree. LA has done both Olympics in the light....and I hated it. Theatrics are mostly done in the dark, it concentrates the attention of the attendees to the performance.
> 
> Lighting is a HUGE part of the show, and people jumping around in the day time on the field has no entertainment value, people start looking outside at the passing plane or the bird flying, add lights and cool gadgets...now we're talking.


All the ceremonies since the 1990s have been done in the dark, each one of them using variations of the same lighting effect. I don't find that technique necessarily any more riveting than any other, but people's tastes do vary.

I'd say the only opening that made me sit up and take notice, because it was so elaborate and costly, was Beijing 2008. But that event forced me to take it seriously the same way a person who shouts in your face and throws dollar bills around forces a person to pay attention. But Beijing at least wasn't a hokum mess like London 2012 or Rio 2016.

I myself find all Olympic ceremonies to be increasingly tedious and full of strange miscues. For instance, Athens 2004 having 3 top Olympic officials inexplicably walking down the track, for no good reason whatsoever, during the ceremonies for what seemed like a hundred miles, and hours. But the most recent ceremonies make the Olympics seem like they're getting even worse.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> I think the rap on swim facilities of Olympic size is that they lie unused afterwards since that level of seating and multiple pools is rarely needed. Temporary facilities seems appropriate in such a case.


The main ingredient of just about all Olympic venues is open land or an open field, surrounded by grandstands. Only the swim events require a component that's more elaborate - and therefore probably more expensive - than just a flat playing field and perhaps a volleyball net in the center or goal posts at the end. That being large swimming pools, which have to be dug into the ground and built below the surface.

That's why the issue of the swimming venue - along with a venue for kayaking - probably involves more special consideration compared with many other issues that an organizer has to deal with. I mean can a large Olympic-sized swimming pool (or pools---not to mention a diving pool) ever be merely, truly temporary?


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## slipperydog (Jul 19, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> I mean can a large Olympic-sized swimming pool (or pools---not to mention a diving pool) ever be merely, truly temporary?


Well, Brazil 2016 did so with its swimming complex, and LA 2024 appears to be willing to do the same, so I'm guessing the answer to your question is yes.


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## ticosk8 (Aug 14, 2007)

If Los Angeles wins..............I wanna watch in the opening ceremony people skateboarding with colorful and tacky clothes, palms and dancing sharks everywhere in the stadium, Katy Perry singing the anthem of USA wearing a lollipop costume, and the grand finale would be Trump with his orange skin lighting the olympic cauldron.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

ticosk8 said:


> If Los Angeles wins..............I wanna watch in the opening ceremony people skateboarding with colorful and tacky clothes, palms and dancing sharks everywhere in the stadium, Katy Perry singing the anthem of USA wearing a lollipop costume, and the grand finale would be Trump with his orange skin lighting the olympic cauldron.


With a Kardashian on each arm?

And what happened to the candy apple red convertibles?

WE LOVE LA!


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

pesto said:


> With a Kardashian on each arm?
> 
> And what happened to the candy apple red convertibles?
> 
> WE LOVE LA!


If Atlanta had pick up trucks, then LA needs to have a bunch of dudes dressed as Angelyne drive around in pink Corvettes. 










True story: I saw this broad fall out of her car once or twice.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

soup or man said:


> If Atlanta had pick up trucks, then LA needs to have a bunch of dudes dressed as Angelyne drive around in pink Corvettes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That kind of thing NEVER goes out of style. The Strip just isn't the same since the Angelyne billboards disappeared.

Are you sure she wasn't a dude? Ever see her near Highland and Santa Monica? I hope the Olympics isn't going to hide LA's diversity.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

http://aroundtherings.com/site/A__58722/Title__Paris-2024-Supports-Mayor-Anne-Hidalgo/292/Articles

After the impressive LA release re spectacular new venues, an odd message from the Paris committee and mayor. 

I don’t question that focusing on the tower should be a key part of their PR. But the tone and specifics here are very poor. The tone is that cleaning and fixing an old monument is emblematic of Paris’ attitude. Really? Fixing up and adding a snack shop to old monuments is where the city is at these days? And it’s not like I’m reading between the lines: they up-front it:

“The plans to upgrade the Tower show the appetite we have to continue to develop our famous city. As we look ahead to Paris 2024, the Eiffel Tower will play a central role in both the bidding process and the Games themselves, and this significant investment will assist us on that journey.”

The thrust is to put the tower front and center; refurb second; the Olympics mentioned; and modernization not even in sight. What stadiums? Oh, yeah, let’s put volleyball in an abandoned hangar at an old airport.

Paris has already gotten rid of one set of PR people; if this continues there will be another set looking for jobs.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

slipperydog said:


> Well, Brazil 2016 did so with its swimming complex.


Yea, you're correct. I didn't realize Rio 2016's swimming pool area was temporary and moveable. That format seemed like it would take so much time and effort to pull off, that no company, and any organizing committee in search of that type of company, would ever bother with pursuing such a task. But what's that saying? If they can put a man on the moon...

Now the question is why is LA 2024 not interested in using the same upgraded pool area where swimming took place in 1984? A lack of enough space to add temporary bleachers?








Not as large and fancy as Beijing 2008's water cube, but it looks even more customized for or themed to the Olympics. Seems to have more of an Olympic spirit or vibe too. If only because it contains exhibits about past games, and apparently a listing of medal winners from those games.

But in redesigning the area, USC may have so tightly locked in the boundaries of the spaces around the pools, that the needs of a big-time Olympics now can't be accommodated.


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## Nacre (May 9, 2016)

slipperydog said:


> Well, Brazil 2016 did so with its swimming complex, and LA 2024 appears to be willing to do the same, so I'm guessing the answer to your question is yes.


Brazil built a permanent-style structure and then demolished it afterwards. Los Angeles would have to be very different.

Swimming championships are often hosted in an arena or stadium, because the swimming pools are shallow enough that you can build a temporary platform.

I don't think diving, on the other hand, has ever used a temporary structure. The diving pool has to be about 4.5m/16.5 feet deep, and my rough calculation puts the weight of the water alone at about 25 tons. (Or 23,000 kg.) It is going to be very hard to create a temporary structure for that _on top of grass_ in a way that looks decent.

My guess is that LA is actually planning on using the USC facilities for diving.



californiadreams said:


> Now the question is why is LA 2024 not interested in using the same upgraded pool area where swimming took place in 1984? A lack of enough space to add temporary bleachers?


NCAA swimming uses 8 lane pools, and the Olympics requires 10 lanes. Seating is also probably too small and unable to be expanded to the required capacity.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

ticosk8 said:


> If Los Angeles wins..............I wanna watch in the opening ceremony people skateboarding with colorful and tacky clothes, palms and dancing sharks everywhere in the stadium, Katy Perry singing the anthem of USA wearing a lollipop costume, and the grand finale would be Trump with his orange skin lighting the olympic cauldron.


A good way to test the professionalism of any committee responsible for a future Olympics in Los Angeles is if they'd take your request to heart or if they'd instead laugh and figure it was sarcasm.

Considering the people who ran London 2012 and Rio 2016, I bet they'd respond with the comment of "hey, that person has great taste and knows all the angles! Let's hire someone like that, pronto."

In light of things like London 2012's official logo, I'm not being sarcastic when I guess that's how certain people will act too.


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## karlcreate1 (May 24, 2016)

pesto said:


> After the impressive LA release re spectacular new venues, an odd message from the Paris committee and mayor.
> 
> I don’t question that focusing on the tower should be a key part of their PR. But the tone and specifics here are very poor. The tone is that cleaning and fixing an old monument is emblematic of Paris’ attitude. Really? Fixing up and adding a snack shop to old monuments is where the city is at these days? And it’s not like I’m reading between the lines: they up-front it:
> 
> ...


Hi everyone, this thread is really interesting but only focused on LA.
I’m here to bring my own arguments in favour of Paris24.
With respect and kindness. 

Let’s begin with pesto. Hi.

I dont understand your point here. I see no problem with upgrade the tower, one of the most visited attractions in the world.
And i dont see Paris24 team say «we will also renovated the tower, This is an advantage over LA or Budapest» 
Come on! 

On the modernization (Based on their plan) : 

Stadium and arenas : 
Stade de France : Opened in 1998, 
Bercy arena : Renovated in 2015
Bercy arena 2 : will be built for the games
Arena 92 : will be open this year 
Orange velodrome stadium : renovated in 2014

Lille Metro stadium : opened in 2012
OL Stadium : opened in 2016
Allianz Riviera stadium : opened in 2013
Bordeaux stadium : opened in 2015

Nantes stadium, Parc des P. stadium : will be renovated for the games.
Probably the same for Stade de France.

Its not so bad on this point.

As u said, i dont think it makes sense to host the volleyball in an abandoned hangar.
Luckily, there is no plan to do that. They talk about temporary venue (like London, Rio or Tokyo). 
An «*old airport*» which is considered as the first business airport in Europe.

Paris is the only city (among the 3), which started to built its new subway system with new lines when others are voting budgets.
I dont even mention the investments in railway stations and airports in the Greater Paris.
And building a complete village, a new aquatic center in a young and multicultural district at the north is a pretty good idea and a great legacy.

So I think, you need to look at the project with the details. 

(english is not my first language guys, be understanding)


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> The thrust is to put the tower front and center; refurb second; the Olympics mentioned; and modernization not even in sight. What stadiums? Oh, yeah, let’s put volleyball in an abandoned hangar at an old airport.
> 
> Paris has already gotten rid of one set of PR people; if this continues there will be another set looking for jobs.


Your also mentioning the Kardashian's in another post indirectly ties in with very recent news reports about Kim Kardashian regarding her trip to Paris a few months ago. The jewelry stolen from her - in her hotel room, no less - according to authorities probably won't ever be recovered. That story ties in with this other one, which hit a part of the media over the past day or so.




> Tourists Flee 'Nightmare' Paris Amid Rising Theft, Assaults, Terror
> 
> Wednesday, 18 January 2017
> 
> ...


If I hated the Olympics and wanted host cities like London and Rio (and Atlanta, Sydney, Beijing, Los Angeles or Paris) to come off looking bad, I'd want the exact same type of people who've run recent games and the exact same type of decision-making out of them to be kept in place for the next 100 years. 

Somewhat similarly, if I hated France I'd hope that people like its current president remain in office for the next 100 years. 

Is Paris's mayor all that much different from France's president?


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## slipperydog (Jul 19, 2009)

Nacre said:


> Brazil built a permanent-style structure and then demolished it afterwards. Los Angeles would have to be very different.
> 
> Swimming championships are often hosted in an arena or stadium, because the swimming pools are shallow enough that you can build a temporary platform.
> 
> I don't think diving, on the other hand, has ever used a temporary structure. The diving pool has to be about 4.5m/16.5 feet deep, and my rough calculation puts the weight of the water alone at about 25 tons. (Or 23,000 kg.) It is going to be very hard to create a temporary structure for that _on top of grass_ in a way that looks decent.


Regardless of whether or not LA 2024 uses USC's facility for diving competitions, the point is that the swim complex used in Rio was designed to be temporary, so that it could be dismantled afterwards and the materials salvaged for other projects. I don't see any reason why LA 2024 couldn't do the same for their swim competitions, whether that's on USC's baseball field, or somewhere else.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

californiadreams said:


> Yea, you're correct. I didn't realize Rio 2016's swimming pool area was temporary and moveable. That format seemed like it would take so much time and effort to pull off, that no company, and any organizing committee in search of that type of company, would ever bother with pursuing such a task. But what's that saying? If they can put a man on the moon...
> 
> Now the question is why is LA 2024 not interested in using the same upgraded pool area where swimming took place in 1984? A lack of enough space to add temporary bleachers?
> 
> ...


Why? Because state-of-the-art Olympic pools are now 10 lanes wide (there are 2 extra lanes on the side for the wash); plus room for underwater cameras on the sides. Further, as you can see, the bleachers on the sides are already locked in. So the Bid Committee has done the next best thing, made the pool as the training facility; and they will use the locker rooms and showers of Uytengsu for the 2024/8 athletes using the temporary main pool.


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## MrStools (Sep 17, 2015)

A few LA-centric thoughts on the recent developments:

1. I had a feeling that LA would go with some sort of two-stadium approach for the ceremonies to try to 'freshen things up' a bit on the international stage. Personally, I would've rather had the opening ceremony at the Coliseum and the closing ceremony in Inglewood, just for historic purposes, but I think the proposed implementation should work pretty well. Having the Forum next door to the Inglewood stadium helps with staging the thousands of athletes for a couple hours (just a logistical thought). Personally, I'm still holding out hope that the Coliseum will get a bigger upgrade/more thorough renovation if LA hosts.

2. As the Inglewood stadium isn't planned to host any events outside of the ceremonies, why not use it as a sort of 'finals venue' - where it could host the medal competitions for sports that are capable of drawing much bigger crowds? Basketball and gymnastics come to mind as sports that could draw crowds of 60k+ for major events. It would be somewhat of a short turnaround to assemble/dismantle the temporary basketball seating, but I feel like this would be possible with some savvy scheduling.

3. The LA area has actually hosted the US Olympic Swimming Trials in a temporary pool in the not-so-distant past... Long Beach hosted the 2004 Trials in a temporary stadium adjacent to Long Beach Arena. You can read more about it here: http://www.myrthapools.com/en/references/long-beach-2004-u-s-olympic-trials/


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

MrStools said:


> A few LA-centric thoughts on the recent developments:
> 
> 2. As the Inglewood stadium isn't planned to host any events outside of the ceremonies, why not use it as a sort of 'finals venue' - where it could host the medal competitions for sports that are capable of drawing much bigger crowds? Basketball and gymnastics come to mind as sports that could draw crowds of 60k+ for major events. It would be somewhat of a short turnaround to assemble/dismantle the temporary basketball seating, but I feel like this would be possible with some savvy scheduling.
> 
> ]


For the most part, it's the federations that determine the where and how of the medal ceremonies. Rowing, for example, is done at the regatta site . . . and because of possible slippage, the Rowing federation does NOT use the various platforms for their medal ceremonies. 

Other than the events competed on the final day (the Men's Marathon and one or 2 others), the medal ceremonies take place in the venue where the gold medal matches were played. With over 200 medal ceremonies at a 21st century SOG, moving some to another venue isn't worth the bother. You don't realize the logistics required to execute what you are suggesting -- and for what?


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## ticosk8 (Aug 14, 2007)

Nacre said:


> *Brazil built a permanent-style structure and then demolished it afterwards.* Los Angeles would have to be very different.


Actually that's not true! 

The aquatics stadium in Rio was not demolished, it will be turned into two swimming pools for underprivileged people in poor areas of Rio.



californiadreams said:


> A good way to test the professionalism of any committee responsible for a future Olympics in Los Angeles is if they'd take your request to heart or if they'd instead laugh and figure it was sarcasm.
> 
> Considering the people who ran London 2012 and Rio 2016, I bet they'd respond with the comment of "hey, that person has great taste and knows all the angles! Let's hire someone like that, pronto."
> 
> In light of things like London 2012's official logo, I'm not being sarcastic when I guess that's how certain people will act too.


it would be funnier than watching white doves flying and a children choral singing a playback version of the national anthem.... 

If that happens, I'll post many pictures here for you appreciate them :lol:


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## slipperydog (Jul 19, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> For the most part, it's the federations that determine the where and how of the medal ceremonies. Rowing, for example, is done at the regatta site . . . and because of possible slippage, the Rowing federation does NOT use the various platforms for their medal ceremonies.
> 
> Other than the events competed on the final day (the Men's Marathon and one or 2 others), *the medal ceremonies take place in the venue where the gold medal matches were played. With over 200 medal ceremonies at a 21st century SOG, moving some to another venue isn't worth the bother. You don't realize the logistics required to execute what you are suggesting -- and for what?*


I see you didn't actually read his post.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

slipperydog said:


> I see you didn't actually read his post.


Excuse me? I beg your pardon. You obviously DIDN'T understand the context of what I was saying. So, why don't you just speak for yourself and NOT someone else?


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## slipperydog (Jul 19, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> Excuse me? I beg your pardon. You obviously DIDN'T understand the context of what I was saying. So, why don't you just speak for yourself and NOT someone else?


Pretty sure his comments speak for themselves, but I’ll explain anyway. First of all, he said nothing of moving “over 200 medal ceremonies”. He was suggesting that the finals of a handful of high profile sports be held in the most state-of-the-art venue at the Games. The logistics for doing so would not be complicated, as there are always venues that host multiple sports. The venue in question is only scheduled to host ceremonies at the moment. In addition, he never suggested that event finals could be held at one venue, and that the medal ceremonies for those events could then be held somewhere else.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

slipperydog said:


> Pretty sure his comments speak for themselves, but I’ll explain anyway. First of all, he said nothing of moving “over 200 medal ceremonies”. He was suggesting that the finals of a handful of high profile sports be held in the most state-of-the-art venue at the Games. The logistics for doing so would not be complicated, as there are always venues that host multiple sports. The venue in question is only scheduled to host ceremonies at the moment. In addition, he never suggested that event finals could be held at one venue, and that the medal ceremonies for those events could then held somewhere else.


I NEVER suggested that over 200 medal ceremonies "be moved, etc., etc." It's you who can't read. 

Are you a Trump cabinet nominee? You probably are. :bash:


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## slipperydog (Jul 19, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> I NEVER suggested that over 200 medal ceremonies "be moved, etc., etc." It's you who can't read.
> 
> Are you a Trump cabinet nominee? You probably are.


Still don't know what you're going on about, but there was nothing wrong with what he was suggesting, which was only that a handful of high profile sports, such as gymnastics or basketball, could host their medal events at a larger venue. Your post seemed to miss that point. No need to get in a huff about it.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

slipperydog said:


> int. No need to get in a huff about it.


Then let him/her speak for him/herself. I don't need an intermediary like you to interpret for him or me. Stop putting words in other people's mouths.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

karlcreate1 said:


> Hi everyone, this thread is really interesting but only focused on LA.
> I’m here to bring my own arguments in favour of Paris24.
> With respect and kindness.
> 
> ...


Welcome! English is not my first language either as you probably have noticed.

First, I have often said that I am sure that LA, Budapest or Paris could be very good hosts for the Games. No issues there.

What I am questioning is the PR approach: Paris naturally would like to feature “La Tour” but it seems to have gone to excesses on this (it is in the logo, discussed in every press release, you can see 85 percent of the venues from its top, beach volleyball, etc. It's as if nobody has ever heard of it before). Now there is a 3320M proposal to clean it and update it, specifically aimed at attracting tourists for the Games. This is what they put in their major releases and conferences. 

Even worse, the latest PR release Mayor Hidalgo literally says that refurbing the Eiffel Tower *symbolizes where Paris is at today*. Just terrible PR! Cleaning and putting a snack bar at the Eiffel Tower is the cutting edge of French ingenuity and aspiration? This was a building put up 130 years ago; France had an emperor in the prior decade who said the country should be a reflection of his personality. Things have changed too much since then for the tower to be more than a symbol of history and a bygone era.

I would talk more about new ideas. Ideas from the bottom up rather than from the top down. New buildings and amenities, vibrant ethnic neighborhoods, people working and creating a new city. I’m sure it’s all there. But the Mayor and Committee focus don't seem that interested.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> Welcome! English is not my first language either as you probably have noticed.
> 
> First, I have often said that I am sure that LA, Budapest or Paris could be very good hosts for the Games. No issues there.
> 
> ...


They are taking the opportunity to do a massive overhaul of the facility which was NOT built to last for eternity. Originally, it was only a temporary structure which was slated to be torn down in 1909. So, yes, it could use 300 million euros' worth of renovation work to make it last at least another century. And you think you know more than the Paris' engineers? 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...n-300m-facelift-under-15-year-renovation-plan 

Why is nearly everyone on this site such a know-it-all when they are really and truly ignorant of the facts? hno:


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## slipperydog (Jul 19, 2009)

Some people take message boards too seriously.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

slipperydog said:


> Some people take message boards too seriously.


Perhaps so. But in this day and age of FAKE news (which can be harmful and deleterious if not called out for being so); anyone with an ounce of integrity will try, or should try to separate the chaff from the grain.

Do you want to be fed a whole stream of B/S? I don't.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> They are taking the opportunity to do a massive overhaul of the facility which was NOT built to last for eternity. Originally, it was only a temporary structure which was slated to be torn down in 1909. So, yes, it could use 300 million euros' worth of renovation work to make it last at least another century. And you think you know more than the Paris' engineers?
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...n-300m-facelift-under-15-year-renovation-plan
> 
> Why is nearly everyone on this site such a know-it-all when they are really and truly ignorant of the facts? hno:


I think you miss the main point and are grabbing at odds and ends in your frustration.

The main point is NOT the tower: it is the Mayor and Committee and their PR approach. If Paris wants to spend 320M (or 10B or whatever) that's their decision. I raised the question of why the Mayor and committee focus so tightly on the tower rather than other aspects when there are other things to talk about in Paris. It is clearly an affirmative strategy not a coincidence and it comes after they changed their PR leadership a few months back for reasons not publicly disclosed. 

But if you're not interested or don't care, just don't comment.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> I think you miss the main point and are grabbing at odds and ends in your frustration.
> 
> But if you're not interested or don't care, just don't comment.


U're right. I was slightly askew in what you were trying to point out.

But I will comment. That's my right and privilege--just as much as you.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> U're right. I was slightly askew in what you were trying to point out.
> 
> But I will comment. That's my right and privilege--just as much as you.


Of course. But just don't feel you need to comment.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

ticosk8 said:


> Actually that's not true!
> 
> The aquatics stadium in Rio was not demolished, it will be turned into two swimming pools for underprivileged people in poor areas of Rio.


I read somewhere that said those pools were actually going to be dismantled and relocated to other sites. Not sure, however. But if that location does contain temporary pools, I thought the main reason for doing that was so the property could eventually be used for something else.




ticosk8 said:


> it would be funnier than watching white doves flying and a children choral singing a playback version of the national anthem....
> 
> If that happens, I'll post many pictures here for you appreciate them :lol:


In the meantime, here is what I'm hoping planners for any future Olympics in LA will be striving for:







I like the way the rather small choir - which entered and exited the stadium like people too busy to stick around - is dressed up as though they're in a Baptist church, the sheen of the blue vinyl stadium floor, the cheerleaders and, most definitely, the pick-up trucks.

1996 is a good example of why the Olympics are more prestigious today than ever before. 

That it was also produced by someone based in Los Angeles is a fact the Los Angeles 2024 committee (or any other one in the future) should always keep in mind and be forever proud of.


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## SirRols (Dec 7, 2011)

pesto said:


> The main point is NOT the tower: it is the Mayor and Committee and their PR approach. If Paris wants to spend 320M (or 10B or whatever) that's their decision. I raised the question of why the Mayor and committee focus so tightly on the tower rather than other aspects when there are other things to talk about in Paris. It is clearly an affirmative strategy not a coincidence and it comes after they changed their PR leadership a few months back for reasons not publicly disclosed.


But they do focus on a lot more. Besides the tower announcement, in the past week alone the Paris 2024 bid team has made announcements about swimming venues along the Seine, partnerships with UNICEF for youth initiates, and signed an environmental pledge regarding the games. It's just on an English-language forum, with the bulk of commentators in this particular thread either following or commenting most on the LA moves, they're not mentioned as much, or often not mentioned on here at all.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

SirRols said:


> But they do focus on a lot more. Besides the tower announcement, in the past week alone the Paris 2024 bid team has made announcements about swimming venues along the Seine, partnerships with UNICEF for youth initiates, and signed an environmental pledge regarding the games. It's just on an English-language forum, with the bulk of commentators in this particular thread either following or commenting most on the LA moves, they're not mentioned as much, or often not mentioned on here at all.


Mais oui! That is the question: why limit those comments to the French site and not to the English ones which are aimed at the world outside France? Even the committee trip to Davos you have to read about in French.

There is always a PR strategy involved, and professional polling checking on its effectiveness runs 24/7. It responds to perceived weaknesses in the bid. It is interesting to see what it is or if it will change as the LA and Budapest bids continue to develop and public opinions shift.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

As long as you have support within your city and nation, the only PR that matters at this stage is whether the IOC is getting the message. The UN thing is smart from Paris because of the IOC's close recent ties to that organisation and its work. It'll polish their egos nicely. They see their goal as aligning with the UN's so anything which plays to that is good strategy, whether it makes English language newspapers or not:

https://www.olympic.org/cooperation-with-the-un

Btw welcome back sirrols, good to see you here again!


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> I read somewhere that said those pools were actually going to be dismantled and relocated to other sites. Not sure, however. But if that location does contain temporary pools, I thought the main reason for doing that was so the property could eventually be used for something else.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1996 was a horrible Opening Ceremony (and Closing too). Salt Lake City in 2002 had a far better American style Opening Ceremony, not Atlanta 1996.

If LA does host 2024, it should be much better than any of these. The 2 stadium approach could really milk the whole Hollywood feel, you have the torch runner humorously run inside the "wrong" stadium (the football one) where there is no cauldron to be lit, then he gets "teleported" to the right one (the Memorial Coliseum) and gives the torch to the final reveal, who lights the cauldron.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Does anyone know what the third flag along is???? :shifty:
http://media.nbclosangeles.com/images/987*494/olympics-2024-archery-at-inglewood-stadium.jpg


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

^^ It's the UK after #noirelexit :lol:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Lord David said:


> 1996 was a horrible Opening Ceremony (and Closing too).



If you go back to my older posts in this thread, I think you'll understand what my comment was actually all about: Bad humor on my part.

Speaking of which, the type of two-stadium "ha ha" segment you describe reminds me of the Hollywoodized humor during the earlier moments of the London 2012 opening:






 

When I was watching that 5 years ago I at first thought the broadcast had segued into a commercial. I recall saying "huh---WTF?!" 

The planner of that game's opening overused and overly depended on pre-taped segments. That broke the flow and energy of a live event. 

I'd be pissed off if any future games in Los Angeles were to follow a similar approach. If LA had done what was done in 2012, critics would be totally justified in calling us a bunch of Hollywood hacks. Or the type of person who managed Atlanta 1996's ceremonies.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> As long as you have support within your city and nation, the only PR that matters at this stage is whether the IOC is getting the message. The UN thing is smart from Paris because of the IOC's close recent ties to that organisation and its work. It'll polish their egos nicely. They see their goal as aligning with the UN's so anything which plays to that is good strategy, whether it makes English language newspapers or not:
> 
> https://www.olympic.org/cooperation-with-the-un
> 
> Btw welcome back sirrols, good to see you here again!


I'm glad the institutions are playing happy face with each other and issuing press releases about it. It's what they are best at. 

But I think you may be underestimating the roll of the media and the public response poll results in this process.


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## Resss (Feb 19, 2015)

Hi, it's my first intervention here after many years of reading SSC. I'm French: sorry for my English.

As everybody knows, Paris failed to host the Olympic games many times last decades. I'm pretty sure that the current strategy, which is less focus on the public, has been defined following the lasts failed. If Paris is more quiet than before, it's mostly because Paris is humble this time.

I read a sondage few days ago, saying that Paris is the large favorite City to host the 2024 Games for a majority of people in the world. It was already the case for the 2012 Games bid, but Paris didn't win. The world public support seems not to be the first subject for the IOC when they choose a host city.

IOC members seems to focus on details, they are looking for kind of perfection. _Le diable se cache dans les détails_ as we say in French. Paris try to do that with renovations, optimizations, new metro lines which will be associated with the Games in the mind of everybody, ecological philosophy, etc. etc. It will maybe not be sufficient, but IMHO, it's a good strategy, better than fireworks videos.


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## SirRols (Dec 7, 2011)

pesto said:


> I'm glad the institutions are playing happy face with each other and issuing press releases about it. It's what they are best at.
> 
> But I think you may be underestimating the roll of the media and the public response poll results in this process.


As RobH correctly pointed out, the overwhelmingly most important target audience for all this marketing is the 100-plus voting members of an organisation headquartered in a French-speaking city that uses French and English as its official languages. Many of those members also represent International Sporting Federations based in that same French-speaking city with French-speaking staff. And even if they are getting their news from anglophone media, the major publications and sites they'd be following that concentrate particularly or specifically on bidding for the event - like Sports Business, InsideTheGames or GamesBids - all cover all the announcements from all of the bidding cities pretty meticulously.

That's not to say that media and public response polls aren't important. If we look domestically, all three bids are polling positively in their respective home countries. None seem to be having problems with lack of support - even Budapest had a major poll showing growing support recently, and they have an active anti-Games campaign on their political front to deal with. If we want to see international polls, that's a bit more problematic. AFAIK, there are no independent scientific polls gauging international preferences or support. The best we could go on are those on sites such as here (on this thread) or GamesBids, which are totally unscientific, open to manipulation and at best reflect the biases of their target readership. And even then, in the digital social anglosphere, it's pretty consistent that Paris tops the polls for preferences.

Again, I just go back to say it's pretty misleading and wrong to say Paris is talking about nothing but its tower based on the dominance of comments and links posted in an english-language thread on an english-language website by english language members quoting from their domestic angophone media (mostly from the home country and city of the only english-language bidder).


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Resss said:


> Hi, it's my first intervention here after many years of reading SSC. I'm French: sorry for my English.
> 
> As everybody knows, Paris failed to host the Olympic games many times last decades. I'm pretty sure that the current strategy, which is less focus on the public, has been defined following the lasts failed. If Paris is more quiet than before, it's mostly because Paris is humble this time.
> 
> ...


Welcome; no need to apologize, your English is nearly perfect. And it’s nice to know that “the devil is in the details” is true all over the world.

A couple of thoughts: You believe that the Paris Committee is fixing and cleaning up Paris so as to impress the IOC and greens and such and that this is better than fireworks. I’m not sure that follows. I view them both as aimed at the same audience: those who are not really interested in sport but would like to see a good show on TV.

Likewise the emphasis on the Eiffel Tower in the English formal press releases is aimed at the world audience that will either watch the Games or will not, thereby influencing their economic failure or success. I am guessing that something in the metrics indicated that Paris needs to make people believe it will be safe, clean and in good repair and NBC has pointed this out to them. 

As a separate issue the release was very sloppy. It notes that the Eiffel project is critical to the Games and symbolizes Paris; but will take 15 years, which is to say until 8 years after 2024. This had to be clarified to say that all the important work will be done by 2024, which is hardly better since it raises the question of what is being is being done during the entire second half of the project. Surely the safety, aesthetic, security and visitor convenience will be addressed in the first half, pre-Olympics? There may be a good answer but the press release was not a good effort (especially for someone who should know that the devil is in the details). :lol:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

SirRols said:


> As RobH correctly pointed out, the overwhelmingly most important target audience for all this marketing is the 100-plus voting members of an organisation headquartered in a French-speaking city that uses French and English as its official languages. Many of those members also represent International Sporting Federations based in that same French-speaking city with French-speaking staff. And even if they are getting their news from anglophone media, the major publications and sites they'd be following that concentrate particularly or specifically on bidding for the event - like Sports Business, InsideTheGames or GamesBids - all cover all the announcements from all of the bidding cities pretty meticulously.
> 
> That's not to say that media and public response polls aren't important. If we look domestically, all three bids are polling positively in their respective home countries. None seem to be having problems with lack of support - even Budapest had a major poll showing growing support recently, and they have an active anti-Games campaign on their political front to deal with. If we want to see international polls, that's a bit more problematic. AFAIK, there are no independent scientific polls gauging international preferences or support. The best we could go on are those on sites such as here (on this thread) or GamesBids, which are totally unscientific, open to manipulation and at best reflect the biases of their target readership. And even then, in the digital social anglosphere, it's pretty consistent that Paris tops the polls for preferences.
> 
> Again, I just go back to say it's pretty misleading and wrong to say Paris is talking about nothing but its tower based on the dominance of comments and links posted in an english-language thread on an english-language website by english language members quoting from their domestic angophone media (mostly from the home country and city of the only english-language bidder).


When rival bids are essentially even what you say has some truth. But in general you are underestimating the role of media and media revenues here. The IOC is not going to let some softheaded local committees get in the way of significant economic decisions. And, for sure, the IOC does not communicate to its affiliates via press releases. 

As for polls, it is irrelevant that you don't have access to them. Those who have need for them (NBC, the other broadcasters, the bid committees, the IOC) spend millions on them, look at them 10 times a day and modify tactics as needed. They never issue a release that is not effectively dictated by what they read in the numbers.


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## Resss (Feb 19, 2015)

pesto said:


> Welcome;


Thanks 



pesto said:


> As a separate issue the release was very sloppy. It notes that the Eiffel project is critical to the Games and symbolizes Paris; but will take 15 years, which is to say until 8 years after 2024. This had to be clarified to say that all the important work will be done by 2024, which is hardly better since it raises the question of what is being is being done during the entire second half of the project. Surely the safety, aesthetic, security and visitor convenience will be addressed in the first half, pre-Olympics? There may be a good answer but the press release was not a good effort (especially for someone who should know that the devil is in the details). :lol:


You pointed the lack of details released about the renovation plan, and I can't totally disagree with you. These details will come in the next weeks. But that's not my point:
Members of city and of Paris committee could say "just look, we have the Eiffel Tower!". They don't (...of course they partially do, but not just like this). They want to do more with this monument, they want to improve it, to improve visitors experience. They want to be sure that even the IOC will be charmed by the Eiffel Tower, even if they already know this old lady.
It will not be a radical change (it's almost impossible) but it'll be a benefic little change, a benefic optimization, probably a "detail" because it's not absolutly necessary, but a benefic for and thanks to the Olympic bid.
This is what I consider as a "detail" where the devil can hide.

What's the problem to communicate about it?
If you want more impressive news linked to Paris and his planification with a view to an eventually Games hosting, you can take a look about, for example, the 4 metro lines under construction, the extentions of airports, the new connections by trains and metros to the airports, etc. There are messages posted before on this thread about at least some of these subjects.
But yes, they are drowned in the flow of messages about LA. I'm ok with that, it's normal it's an english section, etc. But please, just don't use this fact (even indirectly) as a weakness for Paris (or Budapest). That's not really fair.


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## CFCman (Dec 21, 2016)

LA's bid is a very strong one. The concept of hosting the opening and closing ceremonies in two stadia is magnificent and demonstrates the kind of outside-the-box thinking prevalent in the city.

I will suggest that the soccer venues should be:

Rams stadium
Rose Bowl
Banc of California stadium
StubHub Center
Stanford stadium 
Qualcomm stadium
Levi's stadium 
Avaya stadium in San Jose, CA

The semifinals of the men's events could be held at the Rose Bowl and Rams stadium; while the women's semis may be held at the Stanford stadium, and Banc of California stadium.

The finals should be at the Rose Bowl (men) and Rams stadium (women)
The StubHub stadium should be the venue of the respective bronze medal matches.
Moreover, the US teams should play their opening matches at the magnificent Rams stadium.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

Resss said:


> Thanks
> 
> What's the problem to communicate about it?
> If you want more impressive news linked to Paris and his planification with a view to an eventually Games hosting, you can take a look about, for example, the 4 metro lines under construction, the extentions of airports, the new connections by trains and metros to the airports, etc. There are messages posted before on this thread about at least some of these subjects.
> But yes, they are drowned in the flow of messages about LA. I'm ok with that, it's normal it's an english section, etc. But please, just don't use this fact (even indirectly) as a weakness for Paris (or Budapest). That's not really fair.


Personally, I see Pesto's point about the Eiffel Tower. Paris has given it a starring role and the specific comment by the mayor that this is where Paris is today, while referring to the Eiffel Tower, implies that Paris is still in yesterday. However, I don't believe that to be true. I believe much like Los Angeles Paris is also experiencing change in its Public Infrastructure especially with rail transport and perhaps its Airport. 

But this is where I think LA and Paris depart and where LA more effectively hones into its marketing and drives the message. Much like Paris billions upon billions are being invested in modernizing the airport, adding rail lines which will serve the vast majority of venues, tourist destinations and airports, and the billions being poured into Downtown LA and its many neighborhoods. LA drives the "New LA" marketing campaign well. And LA also ties youth, creativity and culture well pulling from its strong ties to technology, motion picture, music and other industries that serve as a "direct pipeline" to the younger demographic. LA goes as far as to have a Disney executive on board and I'm not sure that there is any other company in existence that begins to develop its customer base at such an early age and then keep them for life. The marketing machine LA2024 is running is a finely tuned machine capable of absorbing many LA attributes. I think Paris can pack a stronger punch, but it's not and I'm not sure why.


----------



## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

That's just it, in the past Paris has acted very snobbish and their bid focused on the mear fact that it is Paris...beloved all over the world. Like the pretty girl who doesn't have to try.

This time around they have a better, stronger bid, and it was my consideration that before LA2024 came out with the recent details last week, Paris had an edge on LA, but no longer since last week. I'm expecting Paris to counter-attack...soon.


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

It's weird because it seems to me LA has been indecisive about which stadium they'll use for the opening ceremony, and in trying to keep everyone happy, come up with what looks to me to be an awkward proposal which cleverly manages to undermine their own core message of not spending unnecessarily. Two lots of stadium security, two lots of stadium overlay, lighting, stages, performers, camera crews etc etc.

The new venues for archery etc look nice enough though.

I still think LA24's best move so far has been their "sporting campus" proposal for the athlete's village. That looks to be a really clever use of existing infrastructure. The two stadiums ceremony proposal looks like the opposite - innovation for indecision's sake.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Kenni said:


> Paris had an edge on LA, but no longer since last week. I'm expecting Paris to counter-attack...soon.


Using my own self as a meter of what may be going on out there, even among members of the IOC, and even though I'm based in the general vicinity of where an LA 2024 Olympics would take place, I admit to feeling very ambivalent about the vote in September. That's mainly because I do feel sorry for Paris waiting for over 80 years to get another games and having lost in several past bids. 

If I have feelings of some sympathy, that reaction must be much stronger among the elite of the IOC who live closer to Paris than LA. There are also people in that crowd who have political agendas to stroke, some of them fixated on who or what are underdogs or not, and based on an opinion that America - because of 1996 and 1984 - is just the opposite of the sad underprivileged place that deserves the IOC's tears and kisses.

It probably would have been better if the USOC stepped back from immediately snubbing the idea of a duo-winner later this year, since guaranteeing that 2 of the 3 candidates will get the 2 summer games after Tokyo 2020 may have been the only way to resolve the dilemma.

However, if people on the LA 2024 committee such as Casey Wasserman have the same shortcomings as their counterparts did from earlier Olympics, then it's best the IOC bypass Los Angeles's attempt to be a threepeat.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

RobH said:


> It's weird because it seems to me LA has been indecisive about which stadium they'll use for the opening ceremony, and in trying to keep everyone happy, come up with what looks to me to be an awkward proposal which cleverly manages to undermine their own core message of not spending unnecessarily. Two lots of stadium security, two lots of stadium overlay, lighting, stages, performers, camera crews etc etc.
> 
> The new venues for archery etc look nice enough though.
> 
> I still think LA24's best move so far has been their "sporting campus" proposal for the athlete's village. That looks to be a really clever use of existing infrastructure. The two stadiums ceremony proposal looks like the opposite - innovation for indecision's sake.


I don't think there was ever indecision, that was us and the media. 

They can splurge because....


They don't have to build those stadiums.
They will have double the tix revenue.

LA is planning to spend 5.5 Billion (a freeking unheard of sum), with a projected revenue of 11 Billion.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> If you go back to my older posts in this thread, I think you'll understand what my comment was actually all about: Bad humor on my part.
> 
> Speaking of which, the type of two-stadium "ha ha" segment you describe reminds me of the Hollywoodized humor during the earlier moments of the London 2012 opening:
> 
> ...


I didn't mind the James Bond segment. It just needed a bit of a filler when the Queen and James Bond parachutes from the helicopter. Maybe a brief commemoration of the Queen's Diamond Jubilee whilst the illusion of Her Majesty is making her way to the Royal Box.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Lord David said:


> I didn't mind the James Bond segment.


It's all a matter of taste, of course. 

I personally thought it was extremely ridiculous. It made a mockery of the Olympics, the monarch, a fictional character by Ian Fleming, the British film industry, etc.

London 2012 is a great lesson in the way something gets screwed up not because of a lack of money but a lack of good judgment and good decisions.

I didn't realize a hint of that occurred from the time the very bad London Olympics logo was unveiled in 2007 to a moment 4 years before the games began in 2012:




> *London Olympics: 'Tacky' 2012 handover show attacked on official website*
> 
> *London's eight-minute handover show at the Beijing Olympics closing ceremony has been labelled "tacky" and "a complete disgrace" by furious comments on the official 2012 website. *
> By Stephen Adams
> ...


----------



## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

^^ My thoughts on London's handover in Beijing 2008, was that it was a good premise, but poorly executed.

Can't do much with the logo, but they used the slightly more acceptable Union Jack version.

London Calling should have been the overall theme. You have a proper double decker bus, just hide the performers by covering the windows with blinds/curtains. The ground level performers from the bottom deck, whilst the celebrities (such as David Beckham) emerge from the top deck. The street performers do a "singing in the rain" sort of vibe. And the bus shouldn't have just gone a lap around the stadium, it should have had an overall destination, which is of course London Chinatown.


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## Saiholmes (Jan 16, 2005)

> Los Angeles 2024 chairman admits awarding two Olympics together is "an interesting concept"
> 
> Los Angeles 2024 chairman Casey Wasserman has claimed the idea of awarding both the 2024 and 2028 Olympic and Paralympic Games at the International Olympic Committee (IOC) session in Lima in September "is an interesting concept".
> 
> ...


http://www.insidethegames.biz/index...o-olympics-together-is-an-interesting-concept
http://la.curbed.com/2014/5/2/10105860/here-are-las-huge-plans-for-the-2024-olympics


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

^^ So in a few weeks we've gone from "absolutely no way" to "it's an interesting concept". hmm... how long until we get to "we're in this to win an Olympics (without mentioning which one)"?


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

We never know what they know, something has soften them up. 

BTW, I'm going to the LA2024 meet up tomorrow at City Hall, then they are having a rally in Grand Park.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

When the Los Angeles 2024 committee originally was talking about building an Olympic Village next to the LA river, my skepticism soared, my enthusiasm plunged, and I lost confidence in the credibility of the bid. 

Even though i'm interested in the Olympics as an all-around, general concept, and several years ago thought they had a fairly large amount of prestige, I no longer believe they're worth pursuing if they can't stay within certain strict guidelines. That includes a reasonable budget - and therefore not like what's going on in Tokyo - and not screwing up things as happened in Rio 2016 and London 2012.

I can totally understand why there are cynics and opponents in Budapest, some of them anxious to vote in a referendum to stop that city's bid. If I lived there, I'd be among that group. 

That's not even considering how I'd be even more disgusted if whatever city whose Olympic bid I was involved with or interested in supporting ended up making a mess of parts of the Olympics, such as the ceremonies, as has occurred over the past 8 years, and also much longer. 

The IOC probably should seriously consider enacting the process of a double award in September. That's because the games are losing more and more of their luster. Some of that is due to the underwhelming quality of the 2016 and 2012 summer games, much less Sochi's winter games, and the unexpected ongoing miscues of Tokyo 2020.




> *Budapest 2024 Referendum Drive Picks Up Speed; Mayor On Defensive Over Olympic Bid*
> 
> By Robert Livingstone | Published January 23, 2017 5:23 PM in Featured, 2024 Olympic Bid News
> 
> ...


----------



## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

aquamaroon said:


> ^^ So in a few weeks we've gone from "absolutely no way" to "it's an interesting concept". hmm... how long until we get to "we're in this to win an Olympics (without mentioning which one)"?


The key was not having to bid again. As I noted above, he and the others have better things to do than waste their time bidding again for 4 more years. But if it's handed to you with no further ado, then why not take it? Best of both worlds.

Would have been more fun if they had held out a little longer. Between this and the resurgent Budapest opposition looking for a popular vote the logic of choosing two cities seems very strong.

http://gamesbids.com/eng/featured/b...up-speed-mayor-on-defensive-over-olympic-bid/


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## slipperydog (Jul 19, 2009)

From a transport perspective, 2028 would be just fine for LA, as Metro will have more time to secure federal funding for projects, there will be more time to build more rail lines without having to rush, and the new airtrain at LAX will be up and running with enough time to work the kinks out (currently set for completion in 2023), operators will be old pros by the time the Games roll around. It would also give LA organizers four additional years they didn't think they would have to make hosting the Games even more seamless from a logistical standpoint.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

I just read that some IOC ExCo members will attend the final of the IHF World Handball Championship on Sunday at the recently refurbished Paris' AccorHotels Arena (hope they'll enjoy the game & the venue )


Anyway, here are some shots of the today's semi-final :


parcdesprinces said:


> Semi-Final *France 31*-25 Slovenia :banana::banana:
> *(AccorHotels Arena POPB, Paris)*


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

RobH said:


> Essentially they were the only bidder for 2022 so they won, and yes, they should've been a solid choice. SASCOC was and is enthusiastic but not for the first time in recent South African bidding history they hadn't got government and other agencies properly on board (see various premature announcements of Olympic bids that didn't happen too). A year on from being awarded the Games they still hadn't set up an organising committee or worked out a funding package as they were contractually obliged to. That was last September. As we stand now the CGF is meeting to decide the fate of Durban. Various sports business journos reckon it's now when not if Durban is stripped of the Games. Two Ozzie Games in a row seems the most likely outcome. If that happens the idea of a South African Olympics becomes more distant.
> 
> http://www.insidethegames.biz/artic...l-stages-of-assessing-durban-2022-submissions


thanks for the answer! And thank you for the article link, it looks like from the article and what you say the Durban CWG bid is an organizational disaster rather than anything to do with venues or infrastructure.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

CFCman said:


> LA's bid is a very strong one. The concept of hosting the opening and closing ceremonies in two stadia is magnificent and demonstrates the kind of outside-the-box thinking prevalent in the city.
> 
> *I will suggest that the soccer venues should be:
> 
> ...


I saw CFCman's post and thought it'd be a good jumping off point for a potential venue discussion (my personal favorite!). Specifically: football stadia for the LA 2024 Olympics.

As of now we know of two venues that are booked to host football matches at a potential LA 2024 Games. They are:

Banc of California Stadium
The stadium of the future Los Angeles FC, set to open in 2018









Rose Bowl
The "Granddaddy of Them All" needs no introduction, at least for American audiences. But for outsiders, the Rose Bowl is basically "America's Wembley", our de facto national stadium (and it hosted a world cup final for its soccer bona fides)








Post Renovation photo:








----
Now for the other stadiums, they fall into two categories: 1.) MLS Stadia, in the 20-30,000 range for prelims and 2.) NFL Stadia, in the +60,000 range for more desirable matches.

*MLS Potential Stadia*

Sacramento FC Stadium (Proposed)
~20,000








San Jose's Avaya Stadium
18,000








San Diego's MLS Stadium (highly hypothetical ATM)
+20,000









*NFL Stadia*

Levi's Stadium
+60,000








L.A. Stadium in Inglewood (also A host of the Opening/Closing Ceremonies
















Las Vegas Raiders Stadium









----


If I had to guess here are my choices:
- LAFC, Sacramento, Avaya and SD for prelims
- Rose Bowl, LV, Levi's and Inglewood for playoffs
- Rose Bowl and Inglewood for finals mens and womens
- Las Vegas for important 3rd place matches.

Anyways one Man's thoughts. For Paris or Budapest I'd love to see your potential football venues!


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

aquamaroon said:


> The "Granddaddy of Them All" needs no introduction, *at least for American audiences*.


?????

USA '94 anyone?  



aquamaroon said:


> and *it hosted a world cup final*


Indeed! :bow: (that's what I mean ^^)

(and I'll add, for what it's worth, that I personally always looooved this very elegant stadium...To me it's perfect....its shape, its Art-Déco style, its size, its venerable age... etc, etc)


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

^^ Thanks for the nice words! And of course, the Stade de France is no slouch . In a perfect world, with the vote in Lima this fall, BOTH of our cities can be happy. Obviously, with Trump, we don't live in a perfect world (not to get too political.) But I still hope Paris and L.A. can come out winners from Lima; because both of our cities know what it is to love the Olympic movement. :cheers:


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Interesting. ¿Is the Rose Bowl really considered our _de facto_ National Stadium? 

On Lima. I haven't heard or paid attention...when will we know that IOC will decide to award both 2024 and 2028 games at once? Before or in Lima?


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## Saiholmes (Jan 16, 2005)

> LA city council unanimously approves Olympics host city contract


http://www.scpr.org/news/2017/01/26/68448/la-city-council-unanimously-approves-olympics-host/


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

Kenni said:


> *Interesting. ¿Is the Rose Bowl really considered our de facto National Stadium? *
> 
> On Lima. I haven't heard or paid attention...when will we know that IOC will decide to award both 2024 and 2028 games at once? Before or in Lima?


I would think so... I mean can you think of any others? I legitimately can't.. the closest I can get is the Old Yankee Stadium, and that was for one ball club in NY and has since been demolished. I've racked my brain but I can't think of any other potential "national stadium" besides the Rose Bowl.


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## CFCman (Dec 21, 2016)

aquamaroon said:


> I saw CFCman's post and thought it'd be a good jumping off point for a potential venue discussion (my personal favorite!). Specifically: football stadia for the LA 2024 Olympics.
> 
> As of now we know of two venues that are booked to host football matches at a potential LA 2024 Games. They are:
> 
> ...


4 stadia hosting all the group matches (prelims) would mean that each of them hosts 10 matches. That will put a lot of strain on the facilities. 

In total, both the men's and women's Olympic football tournaments will have a combined 58 matches. 

So, I quite agree with your plan for 8 stadia. I'm not sure about including Vegas as a venue. I'd want to limit the travel distances as much as possible.

But I could take out Stamford stadium, and put the Vegas (Raiders) stadium in its place. That way, we would have the Inglewood, Levi's, Rose Bowl and Raiders stadium as the 4 'mega' arenas. 

The other four venues would be San Diego's proposed stadium, Avaya stadium, Sacramento FC stadium, and Banc of California stadium. I'd remove StubHub arena from my initial list.

The US men's and women's teams would still play their opening matches at the Inglewood stadium. 

The men's semifinals could be at the Rose Bowl and Inglewood stadium; while the Raiders stadium and the new San Diego stadium will host the women's semifinals. 

According to some other posts about a potential new San Diego stadium for both SDSU's football team and San Diego FC, the stadium could seat up to 40,000 fans. It's because SDSU's American football team averages 37,000 fans per game at the current Qualcomm stadium. 

The stunning beauty of those stadia would wow audiences worldwide!!


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

aquamaroon said:


> For Paris [...] I'd love to see your potential football venues!


Here they are :cheers::



parcdesprinces said:


> [...]here are the 9 pre-selected venues for the football competitions (of which only 8 will be selected eventually if Paris wins the race):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

^^ (for CFCman's post) Yep! I think you're right. And one quick clarification, the reason I didn't list StubHub Center is because it is already spoken for; it's already listed as hosting the rugby and modern pentathlon competitions during a 2024 games.
Also one other thing: you mention that LV may not be desirable because of its location, but that's actually one of it's strengths! Of the non LA venues listed, LV is actually the closest of all! Here's a map of Nevada and California for reference:








So, despite being in a separate state, Las Vegas is closer to LA than the Bay Area, and is in the "megalopolis" sphere of influence of L.A. and a good choice for a venue for an LA 2024 games.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

parcdesprinces said:


> Here they are :cheers::


Great venues of course! And having hosted Euro 2016 will obviously bolster France's international football hosting reputation. Hopefully our venues can hold up, especially if the USA is awarded the 2026 World Cup (which may be more likely than not)


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

aquamaroon said:


> the closest I can get is the Old Yankee Stadium


Oh, I've been there! :yes:


parcdesprinces said:


> Some pics I took in 1999 (sorry for the poor scan quality :shifty :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



P.S. Sorry for the off topic stuff. :runaway:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Sorry, but old Yankee Stadium is an absurd choice as a national stadium. They just tore it down and replaced it next door when it got old. The Rose Bowl or Coliseum would be closer but still nothing like a national stadium.

And re soccer stadiums: not sure Qualcomm will be around much longer but maybe a soccer-size successor. LA will get pressure from the state not to move events to Nevada.


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## Chevy114 (Jul 21, 2011)

The problem is, in America we tear down all of our history. The few we have left are nice, but I personally think it should be something with some even more age like Rickwood field.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

pesto said:


> Sorry, but old Yankee Stadium is an absurd choice as a national stadium. They just tore it down and replaced it next door when it got old. The Rose Bowl or Coliseum would be closer but still nothing like a national stadium.
> 
> And re soccer stadiums: not sure Qualcomm will be around much longer but maybe a soccer-size successor. LA will get pressure from the state not to move events to Nevada.


Well my thinking was it's the most famous sporting venue in the most important city (outside of politics) in the country and it's hosted it's fair share of historic events. But you're right, there's no real national American stadium. The Rose Bowl may be the closest, but I may have stretched a bit when I called it "America's Wembley" :lol:

Anyways back to the Olympics! You're probably right about pressure being applied to keep all events in CA. However the LV Stadium will almost certainly be the second nicest stadium in the West (after Inglewood). If they have to keep all soccer events in the state, then I agree as has been stated before that they should go with Stanford's stadium up in Northern California.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

Just for reference, Stanford Stadium is the stadium of the college football team of Stanford University, located in the "Bay Area" of NorCal, between San Jose and San Francisco. Again it's a college football venue and seats about 50,000. Here are some photos:


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## Mr_Illusive (Nov 5, 2014)

aquamaroon said:


> Well my thinking was it's the most famous sporting venue in the most important city (outside of politics) in the country and it's hosted it's fair share of historic events. But you're right, there's no real national American stadium. The Rose Bowl may be the closest, but I may have stretched a bit when I called it "America's Wembley" :lol:
> 
> Anyways back to the Olympics! You're probably right about pressure being applied to keep all events in CA. However the LV Stadium will almost certainly be the second nicest stadium in the West (after Inglewood). If they have to keep all soccer events in the state, then I agree as has been stated before that they should go with Stanford's stadium up in Northern California.


 The Rose Bowl and Coliseum are likely the most historical venues still standing but I think RFK Stadium in DC is technically the national stadium.


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## CFCman (Dec 21, 2016)

aquamaroon said:


> Just for reference, Stanford Stadium is the stadium of the college football team of Stanford University, located in the "Bay Area" of NorCal, between San Jose and San Francisco. Again it's a college football venue and seats about 50,000. Here are some photos:


It's a beautiful arena for sure. Like a poster said, there could be pressure on LA to stage all events in California.

But the allure of the Vegas Strip for visiting teams, and the sheer architectural beauty of the Raiders stadium are factors that can't be dismissed easily. Also, the flight time, as you said, from Vegas to LA is shorter than that from Northern CA to LA. 

Anyway, if Stamford gets the nod ahead of Vegas, I'd still be happy with the decision. Moreover, Vegas could also be the 8th venue if San Diego decides not to tear down Qualcomm stadium to build a new arena.

Venues for the Q/finals could be:
Women- Banc of California, Sacramento FC stadium, Avaya stadium and San Diego (or Vegas).
Men- Levi's stadium, Stamford, Banc of California, San Diego (or Vegas) 

Semifinals:
Women- Stamford and San Diego (or Vegas)
Men- Inglewood and Levi's stadium. 

Bronze medal matches:
Women- Banc of California 
Men- Inglewood

Final:
Women- Inglewood
Men- Rose Bowl


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## SirAce (Mar 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> First rule of PR: don't start believing your own b/s. There was a disconnect in each of these cities between a solid majority of politicians and the local voters. Rome just got lucky and was able to sweep out the politicos along with the Olympics (and it was both the Mayor and newly elected Council that voted strongly against the bid after the people had spoken).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



After all this time you still pretend to teach to others what you can't understand. 

Btw, there were many polls before Raggi decided (in the most unfair way) to end the Italian bid. All the polls were widely in popular favor of the bid.

The day after the decision Raggi popular support started to fast fade away and up today is one of the most unpopular mayor of the last decades. After only 7 months.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

aquamaroon said:


> Well my thinking was it's the most famous sporting venue in the most important city (outside of politics) in the country and it's hosted it's fair share of historic events. But you're right, there's no real national American stadium. The Rose Bowl may be the closest, but I may have stretched a bit when I called it "America's Wembley" :lol:
> 
> Anyways back to the Olympics! You're probably right about pressure being applied to keep all events in CA. However the LV Stadium will almost certainly be the second nicest stadium in the West (after Inglewood). If they have to keep all soccer events in the state, then I agree as has been stated before that they should go with Stanford's stadium up in Northern California.


Well, since that stadium was torn down a decade ago the discussion is pretty much moot. Or do you think new Yankee Stadium has some national status as well?

There probably will be some game played in NorCal for political reasons. Not sure if Cal, Stanford, Levi's, ATT or Avaya makes the most sense. Depends on the expected crowd. I hope they don't have to give away seats like I did during the World Cup.


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## CaliforniaJones (Apr 9, 2009)

I agree with Thomas Bach's idea to atribute the 2024 Olympics to the winner of the race and the 2028 Olympics to the second.

2024 should go to LA and 2028 go to Paris. Inverse order could be also possible.

Do you think Donald Trump's wall and immigrations' policies will hurt LA's chances to get the Olympics ?


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

LA 24 obviously do, having got Alyson Felix to urge IOC voters to vote for them *despite* Trump's election victory (I can't ever remember a bidding city doing that before). But then again, it's not like the IOC has avoided countries like China and Russia with worse records. Trump certainly isn't an asset though, let's put it that way.

Edit: the travel bans I'm reading about today ain't going to help!! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38781420


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## Axelferis (Jan 18, 2008)

Paris of course.


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## Sochifan (Dec 28, 2013)

Obama did everything possible to get Chicago the Olympics and finished last in the voting.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Obama was maybe not the trump card (ha!) Chicago had expected (the Queen of Spain, Japanese PM and Brazilian President were also in Copenhagen in 2009 of course) but he wasn't a negative influence either.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

CaliforniaJones said:


> I agree with Thomas Bach's idea to atribute the 2024 Olympics to the winner of the race and the 2028 Olympics to the second.


That penalizes cities that opted out of a 2024 bid to focus on 2028. If the IOC is going to move to that format it needs to implement it for 2028/2032 rather than change the rules halfway in.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

isaidso said:


> That penalizing cities that opted out of a 2024 bid to focus on 2028. If the IOC is going to move to that format it needs to implement it for 2028/2032 rather than change the rules halfway in.


Some truth to this. 

But then you have to dump Paris again? Or dump LA, which has been called by far the best and safest choice? Even though they both are very strong bidders with worldwide attraction?

And you do this so as to access the rather raggedy crowd of 2028 bidders, some of whom have minimal experience, unclear financing ability, questionable public support, and political and economic issues? Knowing that 2/3 will likely drop out and leave you Rio or Sochi-like choices and disastrous publicity worldwide for the whole movement?

It's something you have to think about and discuss with your broadcasters, PR and financial people before jumping in.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Who doesn't love Wikimapia? (Except pesto)

Let's look at some of LA2024's proposed venues from above.

LA Live | Staples Center | Microsoft Theater | Convention Center

Exposition Park | Memorial Coliseum | Banc of California Stadium (under construction)

Stub Hub Center Complex

Santa Monica (Beach Volleyball)

UCLA (Athletes Village and Training Center)

Sepulveda Basin Recreation Complex

Riviera Country Club

LA Stadium in Inglewood (under construction) | Fabulous Forum

Long Beach | Long Beach Arena | Long Beach Harbor

Grand Park | City Hall | Disney Concert Hall


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> Obama was maybe not the trump card (ha!) Chicago had expected (the Queen of Spain, Japanese PM and Brazilian President were also in Copenhagen in 2009 of course) but he wasn't a negative influence either.


I wasn't following the bidding back then but was surprised to learn some people, described as insiders or experts in the Olympic process, ranked Chicago as the front runner. Chicago 2016's bid books and presentation material, including videos, were way too tentative or mostly mediocre. 

The city was also up against the fact the US had hosted the Olympics only 13 years prior to the IOC voting for the host of the 2016 games.

It had to be sheer hubris and arrogance on the part of people affiliated with America's bid in 2009 to believe it was in the cards for Chicago. They must have figured that if the Nobel Prize committee handed out awards willy-nilly, the IOC would do the same.

As for the next summer games, I have a hunch it will be no less full of hokum than what has been in most other recent Olympics. 

Anime Cirque du Soleil? I can hardly wait.








I just hope the people in Tokyo have enough good sense to at least avoid including things like pick-up trucks and fashion runway shows.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

So from today 4 time Olympic champion Mo Farah won't be able to travel to his house and training camp in Oregon. 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-v...ity-state-department-says-1485628654?mod=e2tw

I really don't want the IOC to give Trump something he can claim as an international victory. It's a damn shame the fat lump is making me judge LA24 on things outside its own merits. The folks at LA24 deserve better than this President.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> So from today 4 time Olympic champion Mo Farah won't be able to travel to his house and training camp in Oregon.
> 
> http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-v...ity-state-department-says-1485628654?mod=e2tw
> 
> I really don't want the IOC to give Trump something he can claim as an international victory. It's a damn shame the fat lump is making me judge LA24 on things outside its own merits. The folks at LA24 deserve better than this President.



The IOC hasn't had problems with the truly totalitarian nature of the People's Republic of China. So much so that Beijing will be the first city in Olympic history to have hosted both a summer and winter games.

Are people's idea of love and kindness applied in constantly changing ways?

Probably. 

Similar to personal taste. Some people think recent Olympic ceremonies have been good, others think they've been wretched.


----------



## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

pesto said:


> Some truth to this.
> 
> But then you have to dump Paris again? Or dump LA, which has been called by far the best and safest choice? Even though they both are very strong bidders with worldwide attraction?
> 
> And you do this so as to access the rather raggedy crowd of 2028 bidders, some of whom have minimal experience, unclear financing ability, questionable public support, and political and economic issues? Knowing that 2/3 will likely drop out and leave you Rio or Sochi-like choices and disastrous publicity worldwide for the whole movement?


There are often a multiple strong bids and I doubt most of the candidate cities for 2028 have thrown their hat into the ring yet. They're waiting to see how 2024 plays out first.


----------



## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

RobH said:


> So from today 4 time Olympic champion Mo Farah won't be able to travel to his house and training camp in Oregon.
> 
> http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-v...ity-state-department-says-1485628654?mod=e2tw
> 
> I really don't want the IOC to give Trump something he can claim as an international victory. It's a damn shame the fat lump is making me judge LA24 on things outside its own merits. The folks at LA24 deserve better than this President.


As an American and strong LA 2024 supporter, I sadly agree with everything you wrote. As much as I want LA to host the Games, the Olympics should not go to a a country that is so unwelcoming and hostile to whole swaths of people. And just from a political standpoint, what majority Muslim country's OC would even think of voting for a US bid now? And would the IOC really want to award the Games to a country that closes its doors to refugees, only one year after there was a "Refugee Olympic Team" in Rio?

What arguments I have would be:
1. The ACLU is filing a suit against the Trump Administration tonight. There's a good chance that this Executive Order isn't even legal, certainly at least as this ban pertains to Green Card holders (who are protected under the Bill of Rights same as citizens). This ban may be struck down, which to the IOC at least would show our country's laws to be more open than our Executive branch.
2. Even if the ban is upheld, the order is for 90 days for the listed nations, and 160 days for refugees. Given the INTENSE protests in this country against the ban, the political heat on this executive order will burn to a crisp anyone who even tries to defend it. You can see it now whereby NO republican (save Paul Ryan, speaker of the house) has been willing to defend this action by Trump. It wouldn't surprise me at all if this ban is dropped like a hot potato in three months and everyone involved decides this is not worth the political fallout.
3. The LA 2024 argument: not voting for L.A. would do nothing to put heat on Trump. His base of supporters already hate L.A., California and everything the state's politics stand for: multiculturalism, social liberalism and a strong social safety net (as strong as a single state can make in the US at least). Were L.A. to lose, it would not change the minds of those who support Trump. In fact, they'd be ecstatic that "Liberal Hollywood" lost this contest. Instead, awarding the games to LA would pave the way for the US to prove we are more welcoming as a nation then we appear now, and show to the world that there are still Americans who welcome foreigners, regardless of race, ethnicity or religion.

Well we'll see what happens, but as a matter of simple fact I can't see the IOC awarding the Olympics to a country that has a blanket, no exemption ban on 134 million people from seven countries entering its borders. Regardless of your politics, if you support LA 2024, for its sake hopefully this ban will be defeated, either by the courts or the people.


----------



## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

isaidso said:


> There are often a multiple strong bids and I doubt most of the candidate cities for 2028 have thrown their hat into the ring yet. They're waiting to see how 2024 plays out first.


I'm not sure I would advise the committee along those lines. 

You in effect are telling them to speculate that there will be a stronger bid than LA or Paris, which are (I believe) universally acknowledged to be very strong bids.


----------



## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

pesto said:


> I'm not sure I would advise the committee along those lines.
> 
> You in effect are telling them to speculate that there will be a stronger bid than LA or Paris, which are (I believe) are universally acknowledge to be very strong bids.


I agree; "better a bird in the hand than two in the bush" thinking applies here, especially when you consider how rocky the Olympic bid process has been lately.


----------



## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> I wasn't following the bidding back then but was surprised to learn some people, described as insiders or experts in the Olympic process, ranked Chicago as the front runner. Chicago 2016's bid books and presentation material, including videos, were way too tentative or mostly mediocre.
> 
> The city was also up against the fact the US had hosted the Olympics only 13 years prior to the IOC voting for the host of the 2016 games.
> 
> ...


I doubt it. The trend is to grab onto popular visuals so as to attract a wider audience. You have to look for whoever is getting his 15 minutes of fame at the moment. :lol:


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

aquamaroon said:


> Well we'll see what happens, but as a matter of simple fact I can't see the IOC awarding the Olympics to a country that has a blanket, no exemption ban on 134 million people from seven countries entering its borders. Regardless of your politics, if you support LA 2024, for its sake hopefully this ban will be defeated, either by the courts or the people.


Here's a question, and only you'll know the answer, and only you will be able to say what you truly feel.

Does the following bother you a lot more, a tad bit more, or a tad bit less, or a lot less, or bothers you in equal measures, compared with what you're saying about the United States?

Be honest.




> *Saudi Arabia wants to host a men-only Olympics*
> 
> *The International Olympic Committee has slapped down any suggestion of Saudi Arabia making a joint bid with Bahrain and holding men and women's events in different territories *
> 
> ...



There's also the phrase "the soft bigotry of low expectations."

Keep that in mind when dealing with the matter of how you believe the IOC should or shouldn't respond to and feel about various countries and various international controversies.


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> I doubt it. The trend is to grab onto popular visuals so as to attract a wider audience. You have to look for whoever is getting his 15 minutes of fame at the moment. :lol:



With any luck, the Japanese will dig up their own version of London 2012's Mr Bean.








Wonderful! I can hardly wait.

There's a good reason the Olympic games in today's era exude so much prestige, dignity and honor.


----------



## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

californiadreams said:


> Here's a question, and only you'll know the answer, and only you will be able to say what you truly feel.
> 
> Does the following bother you a lot more, a tad bit more, or a tad bit less, or a lot less, or bothers you in equal measures, compared with what you're saying about the United States?
> 
> ...


The Saudi treatment of women athletes and women in general bothers me more of course (although the ban bothers me in terms of the immediate harm and confusion it's causing). And um, I absolutely agree with the IOC's decision to ban Saudi Arabia from hosting the games until they change their gender policies, for the same reasons that the IOC would have issues with the U.S. blanket ban: the Olympics are for all humanity (at least in spirit) and men and woman of all races and religions should feel welcome. The two situations are a difference in degree not kind, at least when it comes to the Olympic humanist spirit. And you mention the "soft bigotry of low expectations", well that's something the U.S. is in danger of relying on for these international events. Do we really want to get to the point were the United States of America has to use the argument: "Well if they gave it to Putin's Russia, and One party rule Communist China, Why not us?" in order to get an Olympics?
Regardless of what's right or not, the fact is that LA will have a hard time with the various Olympic Committees if the current administration continues to act in a aggressive manner towards foreign governments and peoples. The IOC is a Eurocentric organization that prides itself on multiculturalism, and they find themselves in a Europe where anti-refugee and anti-immigrant sentiments are at a fever pitch. So for this particular controversy, they may feel the need to strongly refute the anti-refugee sentiment coming out of America's government. 
But I guess who knows? I still am hopeful for LA 2024, and there are many months to go until the vote. I'm sure there will be all sorts of twists and turns in this story to come.


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## prp002 (Oct 4, 2010)

Well as somebody who lives in a 2x Olympic host country, I think the USA is too obvious a choice, Paris too dangerous, thus leaving

BOOODAPEST HUNGARYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY 

And why fukken not?


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Sir Mo Farah:

On 1st January this year, Her Majesty The Queen made me a Knight of the Realm. On 27th January, President Donald Trump seems to have made me an alien.*

I am a British citizen who has lived in America for the past six years - working hard, contributing to society, paying my taxes and bringing up our four children in the place they now call home. Now, me and many others like me are being told that we may not be welcome. It’s deeply troubling that I will have to tell my children that Daddy might not be able to come home - to explain why the President has introduced a policy that comes from a place of ignorance and prejudice.

I was welcomed into Britain from Somalia at eight years old and given the chance to succeed and realise my dreams. I have been proud to represent my country, win medals for the British people and receive the greatest honour of a knighthood. My story is an example of what can happen when you follow polices of compassion and understanding, not hate and isolation.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1369028299785195&id=120065621348142


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

It would be very sad if LA leave :/



> Donald Trump immigration ban 'fanning flames of hatred' as it throws LA 2024 Olympics bid into turmoil
> 
> *Donald Trump’s immigration ban threw Los Angeles’ bid for the 2024 Olympics into turmoil as the city’s mayor accused him of “fanning the flames of hatred”. The new US president’s executive order severely restricting access to America by citizens of several Middle Eastern and African countries* – potentially even those holding dual nationality with the likes of Britain – *appeared to deal a major blow to LA’s hopes of landing the Games later this year.*
> 
> ...


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics...igration-ban-fanning-flames-hatred-throws-la/


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

aquamaroon said:


> And you mention the "soft bigotry of low expectations", well that's something the U.S. is in danger of relying on for these international events. Do we really want to get to the point were the United States of America has to use the argument: "Well if they gave it to Putin's Russia, and One party rule Communist China, Why not us?" in order to get an Olympics?


It's important that people know the full history of people and nations, and, since this is about the Olympics, the history of the quadrennial games in particular. Being totally aware of the games' past is required in order to know whether what is being said about the Olympics today is fully honest or not. 

Some of what's not well-known will surprise, perhaps even shock, some people. Including those who tend to judge the exact same situation either negatively or positively, or less negatively, depending on whether their preconceived notions of a person are being confirmed or not.




> * Why was Jesse Owens deprived of presidential recognition? *
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> *What FDR said about Jews in private*
> 
> *His personal sentiments about Jews may help explain America's tepid response to the Holocaust.*
> 
> ...









> *Was Hitler a Vegetarian? The Paradox of the Nazi Animal Protection Movement*
> 
> What can we learn from Hitler's love of animals?
> 
> ...


----------



## Paolo98.To (Feb 9, 2014)

GilbyDM101 said:


>


Sorry but I don't understand what are expected to do spectators in Coliseum while they are waiting the lighting of the cauldron... there will be another ceremony to entertain them or they will just watch on screen the spectacle in the new stadium? :hmm:


----------



## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> With any luck, the Japanese will dig up their own version of London 2012's Mr Bean.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, it has been shown for some time that prestige, dignity and honor don't sell as well at low shtick, gimmicks and vulgarity.


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

And that is of course why NBC was the only network in the world which cut out the tribute to lives lost and the victims of 7/7 during the 2012 ceremony. They aired a fluff piece on Michael Phelps instead. 



> As well as a tribute to the 52 people who died in the terrorist attacks the piece was designed to set up a reflective mood before the Olympic cauldron was lit, acknowledging how triumph turned to despair the day after the Games were awarded to London seven years ago.
> 
> But instead of showing the dance NBC, which has come in for stinging criticism for most aspects of its Olympics coverage, showed an interview with swimmer Michael Phelps by American Idol host Ryan Seacrest.


http://metro.co.uk/2012/07/29/openi...-khan-horrified-77-tribute-cut-by-nbc-514040/

Classy!

Maybe you're right, maybe NBC feels that doesn't sell in the states so only showed the more light hearted bits. :dunno:

I can only imagine californiadreams reaction had the tribute to 9/11 at salt lake city been cut by an overseas broadcaster. I'll be generous and assume that because of NBC choosing which bits they thought he'd like to watch he was simply unaware.


----------



## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> It's important that people know the full history of people and nations, and, since this is about the Olympics, the history of the quadrennial games in particular. Being totally aware of the games' past is required in order to know whether what is being said about the Olympics today is fully honest or not.
> 
> Some of what's not well-known will surprise, perhaps even shock, some people. Including those who tend to judge the exact same situation either negatively or positively, or less negatively, depending on whether their preconceived notions of a person are being confirmed or not.
> 
> ...


----------



## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> And that is of course why NBC was the only network in the world which cut out the tribute to lives lost and the victims of 7/7 during the 2012 ceremony. They aired a fluff piece on Michael Phelps instead.
> 
> http://metro.co.uk/2012/07/29/openi...-khan-horrified-77-tribute-cut-by-nbc-514040/
> 
> ...


NBC makes the decisions based on their belief as to market demand to watch it. I am afraid many other broadcasters make the decision based on political pressure.


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

pesto said:


> NBC makes the decisions based on their belief as to market demand to watch it.


Exactly. NBC made the decision. So what are organisers meant to do then if they want to include segments which are more dignified and slower paced, or segments which deal with weightier subjects? Presumably the answer is not to bother worrying what American viewers will think as it's already been decided on their behalf it's all too high brow for them. 

Californiadreams mightn't have liked the 2012 ceremony but it's clear NBC are a big reason why he thinks it was all Mr Bean. If NBC cuts out a segment remembering those killed in a terrorist attack don't whine about the organisers not showing any respect or dignity; look closer to home.


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> I can only imagine californiadreams reaction had the tribute to 9/11 at salt lake city been cut by an overseas broadcaster. I'll be generous and assume that because of NBC choosing which bits they thought he'd like to watch he was simply unaware.


Actually, there were several segments of the 2012 opening that I've never seen before. But not necessarily because of NBC, whose coverage is always quite bad. It's just that Olympic ceremonies have become so disjointed and drawn-out - so hackneyed in a Las Vegas-y type of way - that I find my interest in them dropping as each minute goes by, my patience also falling in the process. 

I never bothered watching practically the entire Salt Lake City Olympic games, since I'm less interested in winter sports than summer ones. But I'm guessing its opening had flaws similar to those of Atlanta 1996. 

As for 2012's memoriam to 7-7, sorry, RobH, but as was true of most of that year's ceremonies, the presentation is off. The beginning was dependent on projected images, although - to make it even more overly geared to the frame of a TV instead of a live event - I'm assuming they weren't displayed in a video-mapping format in the stadium but were instead shown to spectators looking at large monitors. 

Is the choreography of the dancers supposed to depict sadness? It instead comes off as more strange than contemplative. But at least they weren't dressed up like performers at Cirque du Soleil. 

Although the song the singer is performing apparently is an historic one in your part of the world, it still wasn't too memorable. 

1984 was the last time an Olympics ceremonies had a large, full-time choir on hand. Hundreds of voices singing in unison in 2012 might have made the tribute to 7-7 come off more movingly.








I'm not a big fan of Olympic openings occurring in the gloom of night. Although that time of day makes it easier to create a sense of somber, for a ceremonies that are in general supposed to be a celebration, that's not the vibe I'd be striving for.


Edit: I've modified this post because I originally wrote 9-11 instead of 7-7. But I've also watched the entire video I posted earlier today, and although I described the choreography as strange, I didn't realize just how strange it really is. I've just seen the portion where the young boy walks up to the guy, who has his hands together doing a rolling motion. That's not strange, that's outright weird.

What the hell is wrong with the people doing these ceremonies?! Are they on crack? Or are they just flat-out incompetent?


----------



## Targaryen (Jul 4, 2016)

Go Trump, if you can help Paris win the race, then you have my complete support hahaha.


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> Unfortunately, it has been shown for some time that prestige, dignity and honor don't sell as well at low shtick, gimmicks and vulgarity.


And it doesn't seem to be letting up. It has remained quite bad for over 25 years, each games consistently following a format very similar to what came before them, none of them questioning the quality of what has been done in the recent past.

I was hoping Tokyo 2020 would duplicate the basic dignity and formality of 1964, but I greatly doubt that. If anything, the organizers of 2020 may think 2016 and 2012 were - in their minds - so fun, hip and appealing, that they'll try to duplicate as much of them as possible.

If so, or regardless, I have a hunch if Los Angeles ever hosts another Olympic games, the presentations will be screwed up no less than what has happened in the past.

Atlanta 1996, here we come!

In terms of taste, creativity and dignity, we've gone past the point of no return. Overdone, underdone ceremonies are to the modern-day Olympics, what political correctness is to the realm of governments and politicians. 

Bad Cirque du Soleil and compassion poured on clumsily like cheap perfume are the concepts of the era.


----------



## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

prp002 said:


> Well as somebody who lives in a 2x Olympic host country, I think the USA is too obvious a choice, Paris too dangerous, thus leaving
> 
> BOOODAPEST HUNGARYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
> 
> And why fukken not?


Because LA's bid budget is an unheard of 5.5 Billion, with a projected surplus of $11 Billion.....again, like 1984 and 1932. :cheers:


----------



## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> Exactly. NBC made the decision. So what are organisers meant to do then if they want to include segments which are more dignified and slower paced, or segments which deal with weightier subjects? Presumably the answer is not to bother worrying what American viewers will think as it's already been decided on their behalf it's all too high brow for them.
> 
> Californiadreams mightn't have liked the 2012 ceremony but it's clear NBC are a big reason why he thinks it was all Mr Bean. If NBC cuts out a segment remembering those killed in a terrorist attack don't whine about the organisers not showing any respect or dignity; look closer to home.


The IOC and NBC both want to maximize revenues from broadcasting. They agree that low, mass-market entertainment is the way to go for the ceremonies. I would assume they are right. I may not like that decision but it's not my call if I don't put a few billion in.

NBC decides that the US audience is not interested in seeing a show about terrorist attacks. So they don't put it on. It's not really connected to the Olympics and no one in the US knows what 7/7 means. Again I am reasonably certain NBC made the right decision. 

I have no idea how the ratings were in other countries; but I assume that the broadcasters either thought people were more interested in that than anything else they had available or they were pressured politically into showing it. The dignity or lack thereof did not enter into the calculation.


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> The IOC and NBC both want to maximize revenues from broadcasting. They agree that low, mass-market entertainment is the way to go for the ceremonies.


I don't think the IOC or certainly NBC had that much influence, if any, on 2012's opening. It was mainly the decisionmaking of this person that set the tone:








In my opinion, the presentation was hardly charming. But it was quite idiosyncratic. However, not in a way that I'd describe as good. 

NBC presumably saw rehearsal or preview scenes of the event. If so, and if they responded the way I did, they probably thought because many of the segments were one big blur, one big mess, and were interchangeable, liberties could be taken with them.

Many of them were forgettable or dispensable enough, including the commemoration of 7-7, that NBC may have been more willing to sacrifice them for an interview. I personally wouldn't have done that since talking heads further undermine the flow of a live event, but NBC has its own issues.

If I hadn't seen the video of the 7-7 segment above, I would have never been aware of just how poorly done it was, how peculiar and ineffective - even bizarre - it turned out.

If an Olympic games in Los Angeles ever is as guilty of such mis-managed ceremonies as London 2012 was, heads should roll. However, the TV ratings for London 2012 were admittedly quite good, at least here in the US.

But 2012 was off in the wrong direction from the get-go, when even the official logo wasn't handled properly. It was as though Sebastian Coe and Danny Boyle - along with others, such as the firm responsible for the 2012 game's logo - conspired to show the world a primer in the hows and whys of lousy taste.

Again, if Los Angeles in the future ever hosts another Olympics and makes a mess of things in a way similar to 2012, 2016, 1996, etc - and that's very possible in this day and age - the people responsible for that should be tarred and feathered.


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

del


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

pesto said:


> NBC decides that the US audience is not interested in seeing a show about terrorist attacks. So they don't put it on. It's not really connected to the Olympics and no one in the US knows what 7/7 means.


It wasn't a show about terrorist attacks, it was a dance sequence in the middle of the opening ceremony in tribute to those who died. Not out of place artistically or unrelated to our Olympics because the attacks happened less than 24 hours after London was awarded the Games. The city went from a celebration which should've lasted a whole weekend to complete shock in less than a day. The PM and mayor were still in Singapore with the IOC. That event is inextricably linked to our Games - simultaneously the most joyous and tragic weekend in the city's recent history - and it was completely right to acknowledge it in the ceremony. NBC lacked class and respect for the hosts in cutting it.

_EDIT: I've since read that NBC weren't told that segment was intended as a tribute specifically to 7/7. I still find it odd that they'd cut the middle of a ceremony out to show an interview they had on tape rather than simply showing the whole ceremony as the rest of the world does. And it's a bit weird that Americans not knowing about something is the reason they give (isn't the point of opening ceremonies to show things people mightn't know about already?). The decision was still disrespectful to the hosts and patronising to the viewers. but at least it wasn't a deliberate snub as I originally thought.  Out of interest, do US networks cut out the middle of movies if they think their audience won't like them? :lol:_


----------



## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Uh oh....as if it wasn't an uphill struggle already for Hungary...



> Budapest’s bid to host the 2024 Olympic and Paralympic Games will delay the scheduled launch of its international promotion phase, it was announced Sunday, amid a campaign by bid opponents to collect enough signatures to force a municipal referendum.
> 
> The “NOlimpia” group has been given 30 days to collect 138,000 signatures and trigger a referendum over Budapest’s Olympic project and on Sunday the group announced that it is already halfway to the target with over 70,000 signatures and 20 days remaining in the window. The deadline is February 18.
> 
> ...


More @ http://gamesbids.com/eng/featured/b...=Feed:+gamesbidsrss+(GamesBids.com+Headlines)


----------



## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

IThomas said:


> It would be very sad if LA leave :/
> 
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics...igration-ban-fanning-flames-hatred-throws-la/


LA is not leaving. CA is the leader in pushing back the Trump Admins executive orders. WE here in CA know that they are unconstitutional and will be legally defeated. America has strong immigration values and the rule of law backs it up. 

The IOC must realize that CA is not Trump "crazy" Land. 

The opposition won here by 2/3rds.
President Votes
Clinton, DEM 8,753,788 61.7% 
Trump, REP, 4,483,810 31.6%

http://elections.cdn.sos.ca.gov/sov/2016-general/sov/2016-complete-sov.pdf

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



californiadreams said:


> I wasn't following the bidding back then but was surprised to learn some people, described as insiders or experts in the Olympic process, ranked Chicago as the front runner. Chicago 2016's bid books and presentation material, including videos, were way too tentative or mostly mediocre.
> 
> The city was also up against the fact the US had hosted the Olympics only 13 years prior to the IOC voting for the host of the 2016 games.
> 
> It had to be sheer hubris and arrogance on the part of people..........


blah blah blah blah....there you go again. You just said it yourself, you didn't follow the bids back then but seem to know what went down....

Chicago was the front runner during the bid process. Obama's election victory pushed the bid to new heights. But what Chicago's bid leaders failed to recognize was "its all about the money"!! Jerry McGuire type BS> lol
The IOC and USOC were infighting for money and the source of the consternation was a "Olympic Channel". They could of pulled all the stops (which they did w/ Obama) but what did them in was other peoples problem. IOC vs USOC, something Chicago had no say in.....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



RobH said:


> It wasn't a show about terrorist attacks, it was a dance sequence in the middle of the opening ceremony in tribute to those who died. Not out of place artistically or unrelated to our Olympics because the attacks happened less than 24 hours after London was awarded the Games. The city went from a celebration which should've lasted a whole weekend to complete shock in less than a day. The PM and mayor were still in Singapore with the IOC. That event is inextricably linked to our Games - simultaneously the most joyous and tragic weekend in the city's recent history - and it was completely right to acknowledge it in the ceremony. NBC lacked class and respect for the hosts in cutting it.
> 
> _EDIT: I've since read that NBC weren't told that segment was intended as a tribute specifically to 7/7. I still find it odd that they'd cut the middle of a ceremony out to show an interview they had on tape rather than simply showing the whole ceremony as the rest of the world does. And it's a bit weird that Americans not knowing about something is the reason they give (isn't the point of opening ceremonies to show things people mightn't know about already?). The decision was still disrespectful to the hosts and patronising to the viewers. but at least it wasn't a deliberate snub as I originally thought.  Out of interest, do US networks cut out the middle of movies if they think their audience won't like them? :lol:_


I know this as a Olympic bid, games, athletes FAN> I love the process and the games (ceremonies) no matter how corny CALIFORNIADREAMS makes them out to be. Ive helped create some of the Wiki entries. (help is needed btw). 

The Dance segment was nice and the rising phoenix was poignant and respectful. Very well done. 

NBC sucks! I always wait to see the international versions to see what Ive missed. I didn't like the decision to leave out the 7/7 tribute. or ANY segment. People work really hard to show the world there beloved culture and would hate it if other networks/countries did that to an (potential) LA 2024 ceremony.


----------



## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

:cheers2:




Iron_ said:


> La fameuse Bercy Arena II


----------



## Brenn86 (Mar 25, 2016)

redspork02 said:


> No effect. I'm buying. My guess was about $2500+ for prime seats. So....save up people. (We hope).
> 
> The bid book is great. Doubling down.
> 
> I have yet to read Paris bid book...is it out (public) yet?


Yes here:

http://paris2024.org/medias/bidbook/bb3_en_inter_02_02_2017_bd.pdf


----------



## pierolol (Apr 29, 2009)

*PARIS 2024
Made for Sharing​*


----------



## pierolol (Apr 29, 2009)

*#MadeForSharing





*


----------



## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> It will have zero effect on the attendance. Both stadiums will be full, even at 1700 a ticket, i guarantee it


I was referring to the pricing of various events in general.

When I was scrolling through the LA 2024 bid book and came upon a list of ticket prices that sounded more realistic and reasonable to me, I noticed they applied to events at the Paralympics.

Oops on my part.

The section on ticket pricing does give a rundown on why they think the valuation of tickets is realistic based on other major or specialty sporting events held throughout the US or what was true of London 2012. 

What really stuck out to me, however, is the section that mentioned how many more tickets were sold for Atlanta 1996 than Los Angeles 1984. Not even close.

The third LA bid book is again more well packaged - looks better and seems more thoroughly detailed - than what Paris 2024 has been producing. But I wonder how many members on the IOC selection committee actually spend much or any time poring over such material?

I'm betting quite a few of them, when meeting in Lima in September, will have trouble dealing with the fact that LA hosted an Olympics only 33 years ago, while Paris hasn't had that honor (or misfortune? :lol since the early 1900s. They'll also be greatly influenced by what they see in person when visiting each of the 3 cities during inspection tours. 

Tourists in general are known to gush about Paris - or an immediate visceral reaction - while often doing the opposite towards Los Angeles, so that's another thing that will offset the fact LA may be more tailor-made to host the games than most cities out there, including Paris.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

californiadreams said:


> The third LA bid book is again more well packaged - looks better and seems more thoroughly detailed - than what Paris 2024 has been producing. But I wonder how many members on the IOC selection committee actually spend much or any time poring over such material?
> 
> I'm betting quite a few of them, when meeting in Lima in September, will have trouble dealing with the fact that LA hosted an Olympics only 33 years ago, while Paris hasn't had that honor (or misfortune? :lol since the early 1900s. *They'll also be greatly influenced by what they see in person when visiting each of the 3 cities during inspection tours. *


The IOC generally prohibits voting members from visiting bidding cities during the bid phase. The inspection visits are instead carried out by a team of non-voting IOC members who then write up a report for the rest of the organisation to study. This was implemented after the Salt Lake City bribary scandal, and as far as I'm aware is still the way things are done.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

My goodness Paris is so beautiful. :cheers: Worthy contender for this fight.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

I agree it's a magical city . I do wish though that we had more equally high quality renders of LA 2024's plans like the ones seen above. They clearly have them as they were in the bid book, but they were mostly only shown as small thumbnail size pictures. I'd love to be able to download full resolution files of their venue plans, I wish LA 2024 would be a little more generous with their renderings! (I know, beggars can't be choosers :lol


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## CaliforniaJones (Apr 9, 2009)

Both cities deserve the Olympics.
It should have two "winners", with incertainty of Budapest's Bid.


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## ticosk8 (Aug 14, 2007)

Sorry Los Angeles and Budapest, but Paris will win the fight :lol: What a wonderful city! :drool:


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

> *Paris have repeatedly insisted here today that there is no possibility of them hosting the 2028 Summer Olympic and Paralympic Games and that they are only interested in the 2024 edition.*
> 
> This comes as speculation continues over whether the International Olympic Committee (IOC) may consider awarding both events at its Session in Lima in September. Bid officials have pointed out how they only have a tender for the proposed Athletes' Village site in St Denis until 2024, so would have scrap this entire plan if they were to host the later edition.
> 
> ...


http://www.insidethegames.biz/artic...-unable-to-host-2028-olympics-and-paralympics


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## Targaryen (Jul 4, 2016)

^^ 
Since LA went from absolutely not to a great idea regarding the 2028 olympics I think this is a good reaction from Paris putting a bit of presure on the IOC making clear they will not run for 2028 meanwhile reaction from LA was a bit confusing like they are now letting the door open for 2028.


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## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

About the two-Olympic-Stadium solution proposed by Los Angeles for their 2024 Olympics bid:

I understand Los Angeles 2024 not wanting to leave the New Rams Stadium in Inglewood out of their plans, but I would have been perfectly fine with using just the LA Coliseum for the Opening and Closing Ceremonies. I don't know why there was even any negative thought about using the LA Coliseum for a third Olympics. Also, who else is disappointed that the New Rams Stadium is not being proposed to host any sports (not even basketball or gymnastics)?

I think Los Angeles proposed this two-Olympic-Stadiums solution to have the Olympic Flame in both stadiums and teach Rio de Janeiro a lesson. By that I mean punish Rio de Janeiro for leaving the Olympic Flame out of its Olympic Stadium during the 2016 Games and potentially punish any future Olympic Candidate Cities for proposing to do that same thing.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

So we don't have a ton of hi-res renders for LA 2024 yet, but I thought I'd put here what we have so far:

*L.A. Memorial Coliseum: Athletics/Ceremonies*










*L.A. Stadium: Ceremonies/Archery*


















*StubHub Center: Rugby/Modern Pentathalon*










*Frank G. Bonelli Regional Park: Mountain Biking*










(h/t user Slipperydog for finding the last three :cheers

One thing, they also released a high resolution rendering of the Aquatics Center, but it wasn't shown in the phase 3 bid book, so I'm leaving it out in case it was changed from the original design.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

I can't get over how bad that corporate block is in the Coliseum. If general admission tickets immediately to the left or right of that cost more than $10 people are getting ripped off.


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## Chevy114 (Jul 21, 2011)

I don't wish any negative on LA, but if they do lose the bid, I hope the Olympic Selection Committee says its because of the ugly renovations they want to do to the Col. that everyone hates.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^ ^^ I have to admit I'm not a big fan either of this Coliseum renovation plan...


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

It is absolutely terrible, and even worse that the Coliseum Commission, who was set in place to protect the historic venue from exactly these types of atrocities, approved this catastrophe.

It is simple tho, the people who are paying for this atrocity are getting exactly what they want with no regard no anything nor anyone else.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

Haha yeah, the "rich people tumor on the Coliseum" hasn't gotten a lot of love from well, anybody. But like Kenni says, that's what the USC boosters want and that's what they'll get regardless of everybody else.
It's kinda funny, the Coliseum/Aquatics issues with LA 2024 sort of remind me of their issues with Trump (much less serious of course and with far fewer real world consequences). Much like LA 2024's international reputation is being damaged by political events beyond their control, their preferred design for Expo Park has also been taken out of their hands by outside forces.

This was the original plan for Expo Park that LA 2024 envisioned:










So the original plan was to demolish the LA Sports Arena and turn it into an Aquatics stadium with a retractable roof. And after the Olympics it would be turned into a soccer specific stadium. And as you can see the Coliseum didn't have a suite tower like the one above, though I don't know what their plan was for that. There was also a plan for a bicycle roof, in effect turning the Coliseum into sort of an American version of Berlin's Olympiastadion:

















However, outside interests in Expo Park changed the plan.
1. The University of Southern California, which manages the Coliseum, decided to go ahead with the renovation above. One result is that I believe the design precludes a roof (the huge screens are pretty cool though.
2. Los Angeles FC joined the MLS, and took over the Sports Arena site. And they went ahead with a design that made turning the stadium into an aquatics venue difficult, and also causing schedule issues. This is of course their right as the permanent tenants, but it did put a crimp in LA 2024's plans and forced them to move the Aquatics venue two blocks away on Dedeaux Field on the USC Campus, which while still close hurts the ideal of having Expo Park as the heart of the Olympics.

L.A. like any big city has a lot of competing special interests, and that's especially true with such a desireble piece of property as Expo Park. I still think though LA 2024 is doing their best, and if given the chance will deliver some great games. :cheers:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Kenni said:


> It is absolutely terrible, and even worse that the Coliseum Commission, who was set in place to protect the historic venue from exactly these types of atrocities, approved this catastrophe.
> 
> It is simple tho, the people who are paying for this atrocity are getting exactly what they want with no regard no anything nor anyone else.


What worries me is the type of people managing the Los Angeles 2024 Committee could very well be similar to the people managing the Coliseum, in terms of the quality of their taste and the reliability of their decisions, in this case the renovation of LA's most famous stadium.

If Casey Wasserman were to go through this thread and say things like he thought the 2012 Olympics in London were really great, that the Rio games deserved lots of praise, and that fashion model runway shows in Barcelona 1992 and pick-up trucks in Atlanta 1996 were clever and made lots of sense, Los Angeles may very well dodge a bullet if it isn't selected in September.










> Theo S.
> *Los Angeles, CA*
> 
> 
> ...



Of all the type of things that the head of Los Angeles 2024 could single out for praise when it comes to his city, I'm concerned that what he chose may hint at the caliber of his preferences in general. I hope not.

It will be very disappointing if people like Casey Wasserman are similar to London 2012's Sebastian Coe.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

US President Trump Says LA 2024 Olympic Games Would “Be Terrific”

http://gamesbids.com/eng/featured/us-president-trump-says-la-2024-olympic-games-would-be-terrific/

By Robert Livingstone | Published Feb 6, 2017 11:11 PM in Featured, 2024 Olympic Bid News 

For the first time since his surprise election victory in November, U.S. President Donald Trump spoke publicly about Los Angeles’ bid for the 2024 Olympic and Paralympic Games and how his immigration policy might impact the campaign to return the Games to the city for the third time.

Speaking to Westwood One Sports Radio Sunday just ahead of the kickoff to start the Super Bowl, Trump spoke about his full backing of the bid, and said he wasn’t sure what role his new executive action might play as the bid moves forward.

“I’ve been asked to support it and I’ve actually spoken to the Olympic Committee in Europe, and they are, I think were very happy when they spoke to me, they wanted to have an endorsement from me and I gave it to them very loud and clear,” The President said.

“I would love to see the Olympic go to Los Angeles, I think it would be terrific.

“The United States Committee members have asked me to speak up about it and I have and I think I helped them and let’s see what happens.

“But I would be very happy and honored if they would choose Los Angeles and we’d stand behind it.

In August, LA Mayor Eric Garcetti said that some International Olympic Committee (IOC) members had voiced concerns over a Trump presidency. Garcetti, a democrat and a political opponent of Trump’s later said that politics would have nothing to do with the bid. He helped arrange the call between the U.S President and IOC President Thomas Bach in November.

Westwood One Radio host Jim Gray then turned the conversation to Trump’s controversial travel ban affecting seven muslim-majority nations that, as of Monday evening, is be vetted by the court system.

Gray asked “do you feel your immigration policy and the recent executive order might hurt the bid and cost LA some IOC votes?”

Trump responded “Well I don’t know.”

“But we have to, regardless, we have to have security in our country. We have to know who is coming in to our country, We have people that are coming in with good intentions.”

“If people are coming in with bad intentions I want to be able to find out before they get here. You see what’s happened in other countries, you see what’s happened in our country – take a look at so many events including the World Trade Center.

“So if people want to come into our country they have to come with good intentions, then we want strong borders and we want to have extreme vetting, and we want to know what we’re doing, frankly.”

Trump also commented on the ban of Russian Olympic athletes from the Rio 2016 Games after the discovery that they were involved in a widespread doping conspiracy and cover-up at the Sochi 2014 Games. He was asked by Gray whether the ban should be extended to future Games, and if he would say that to Russian President Vladimir Putin.

“Well I think that is really going to be up to the various Olympic committees,” Trump said, “they’ve taken a very strong stand and it’s going to be up to them much more so than me. So we’ll see what they have to say.”

He didn’t comment on Putin.

Los Angeles is competing against Budapest and Paris to host the Games, the IOC will elect a winner September 13 in Lima, Peru.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Ugh! Shut up! ^^

:nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts:

:lol:


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## Sochifan (Dec 28, 2013)

Unhinged left are not going to stop until International sports is destroyed completely.

This Livingstone guy in addition to being a Russophobe is a sloppy journalist. In one of his latest hatchet jobs about Russia he makes an incorrect statement on one of the events in RU this Winter. I notified both him and gamesbids about the error and they refuse to change it.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Oh look, a Russian calling someone a Russophobe who doesn't agree with him. How original. Never seen that lazy smear tactic before.

Let's not forget, that Russia has single handedly undermined international sports since 2011 by cheating clean athletes on an industrial scale (http://news.sky.com/story/russian-doping-cover-up-helped-1000-athletes-10688951).

As a result, Sochi 2014 is now a black mark in the history of the Olympic movement. When it should've been welcoming the world, the Russians were instead cheating it. The single biggest thing which has undermined international sport in recent years is this. _Nothing else comes close._

People worried about the IOC potentially giving Trump an easy PR victory, on the other hand, aren't "destroying" anything. People are entitled to an opinion.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Los Angeles 2024 Olympic projected ticket prices, venue map in bid book*

http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2017/02/03/la-2024-olympic-bid-book-venues-ticket-prices/

Associated Press
Feb 3, 2017, 9:20 AM EST	

LOS ANGELES (AP) — Los Angeles Olympic planners competing for the 2024 Games promised Thursday to help restore credibility and stability to the international sports festival as the world enters an era of uncertainty.

In documents submitted to the International Olympic Committee — known in Olympic parlance as the “Bid Book” — the privately run group known as LA2024 said it had crafted a “no surprises” plan that will closely watch the financial bottom line.

“The world is entering an era of unprecedented change and uncertainty,” the Los Angeles organizers wrote. “*The 2024 Games must help restore the credibility of the Games, ensure financial stability for the Olympic movement and create new opportunities to engage with young people around the world*.”

The $5.3 billion proposal includes housing most athletes at UCLA and using the planned NFL stadium in Inglewood that is expected to be completed in 2019.

The IOC is set to award the 2024 Olympics in September. Los Angeles is a finalist, along with Paris and Budapest, Hungary.

Los Angeles hosted the 1932 and 1984 Olympics.

The documents were released as questions linger about President Donald Trump‘s executive order temporarily banning refugees and immigrants from seven predominantly Muslim countries. *The government has told the U.S. Olympic Committee that the ban shouldn’t impact athletes traveling to the U.S. for international events.*

Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti said earlier this week that he’s confident the IOC will evaluate the bid on its merits.

The proposal projects that Los Angeles would be able to fill seats at Olympic venues.

The millions of sporting-event tickets that are sold annually in Southern California, and the billions of dollars spent on such tickets nationally, provide “ready-made databases of target audiences,” organizers said.

But it will come at a cost.

*Average seat prices vary widely but a spot at the Opening Ceremony would average nearly $1,800, the document said.*

*But an average ticket price for a less-in-demand event like golfing preliminaries would go for $13.*

After anxiety over taxpayer costs helped cripple Boston’s 2024 Olympic bid, organizers in stand-in Los Angeles have made its tight budget a highlight of its proposal. It requires* no new construction *of permanent venues, instead relying on existing structures and arenas, all serving the IOC mandate for less-expensive Games that require less new construction.

Over the years Olympics have been notorious for cost overruns, and studies have questioned if host cities benefit economically. *Russia has struggled with costs from the 2014 Sochi Olympics, which have been called the most expensive Olympics of all time.*

In Rio de Janeiro last year, the spreading health crisis of the mosquito-born Zika virus kept some athletes away, promises to clean up Rio’s filthy waters remained unfulfilled and the heavy financial bill made them unpopular with many in Brazil.

Acknowledging the negative stories that surrounded the lead-up to past Olympics, the Los Angeles bid promised “compelling new Olympic narratives around fiscal responsibility, community partnerships, world-leading sustainability, youth engagement across diverse cultures, celebrity endorsement and new technologies.”

A new prong of the Los Angeles plan calls for creating a satellite village at the University of California, Riverside, for athletes who would compete in rowing events at Lake Perris.

And in a city synonymous with clogged freeways, the Los Angeles proposal set a bold, and *maybe unrealistic, goal: Bring 100 percent of ticketed spectators to competition sites by public transportation or systems designed for spectators*, such as shuttle buses.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

^^ RobH is right. 

Oh SochiFan..........your blindness is baffling.
#AlternativeFacts Stop watching RT! 

RobH....he could be a Russian bot or propagandist attempting to hide Russia's meddling?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In other NEWS: LA Mayor Eric Garcetti is currently in his reelection campaign, which he is expected to win easily just received an endorsement. President Obama is to endorse Garcetti. Can Obama help the LA 2024 campaign? Could Garcetti woo Obama to attend (again) the Lima Conference in September? 



> http://www.dailynews.com/government...dorses-la-mayor-eric-garcetti-for-re-election
> 
> *
> Obama endorses LA Mayor Eric Garcetti for re-election*
> ...


............................

I don't think Obama would want to IMO.......If he does it would be a big boost. As Obama remains popular in the US, Africa and Europe.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

redspork02 said:


> In other NEWS: LA Mayor Eric Garcetti is currently in his reelection campaign, which he is expected to win easily just received an endorsement. President Obama is to endorse Garcetti. Can Obama help the LA 2024 campaign? Could Garcetti woo Obama to attend (again) the Lima Conference in September?


I read that the IOC didn't like the security entourage which had to be hastily arranged when Obama visited the Copenhagen session in 2009. So perhaps a re-staging of that wouldn't be wise. Besides which, having Obama speak just highlights the giant orange elephant (not) in the room.

Really, I would think LA24 needs to de-politicise its pitch as far as possible now, focus on what the city can offer the Games, try to make the IOC voters forget Trump for the time it takes them to watch their presentation and vote for the host city. i.e. from your article, keep pushing _this_ message....



> Acknowledging the negative stories that surrounded the lead-up to past Olympics, the Los Angeles bid promised “compelling new Olympic narratives around fiscal responsibility, community partnerships, world-leading sustainability, youth engagement across diverse cultures, celebrity endorsement and new technologies.”


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Summoning all volunteers!


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

redspork02 said:


> I don't think Obama would want to IMO.......If he does it would be a big boost.


That sounds like a bit of the hubris that affected the Chicago 2016 bid in the first place. People not looking below the surface - such as at the Chicago bid books and videos, even its rather lackluster logo - and therefore not judging the reality correctly. 














Although the anchor at CNN was surprised, or even shocked, in part because Chicago didn't go beyond the first round, if he had been more upfront and accurate about the reality of the situation to begin with, he'd at least have never ranked Chicago as high as he probably did before the vote took place.

People giving overly high, overly positive, marks to Olympic bids, Olympic ceremonies or politicians is not exactly uncommon.

I'm sure the people responsible for Rio 2016, particularly its opening, really believed they were doing great planning and great work: Tricycles, goofy costumes, and Tom Brady's wife walking down the infield for several minutes?! Fantastic!


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> Really, I would think LA24 needs to de-politicise its pitch as far as possible now


Even more so if the city that probably will win in September has this particular elephant - and truly not a nice one - standing in the corner of the room: 








What's sad is that some people who believe they have big hearts will have a difficult time knowing who or what to sympathize with or not in such situations. 

They may be similar to all those people who've been producing Olympic ceremonies during the past few decades and who believe that Cirque du Soleil fluff or pick-up trucks and hokey cheerleaders are totally appropriate and dignified for opening and closing presentations.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

californiadreams said:


> even its rather lackluster logo - and therefore not judging the reality correctly.


THE Chicago bid logo did have meaning...look up the city of Chicago flag and its symbolism to the cities history.....just cuz you didn't like it. The logo wasn't even talked about....during the bid process.
THe bid lost due to politics within the IOC VS USOC and NBC. 

Local folks not following the bid details daily would not have known the details of this. Including a desk anchor who was live on air, obviously by video...I saw that live (CNN) an remember thinking she has no clue about what was happening. 



californiadreams said:


> People giving overly high, overly positive, marks to Olympic bids, Olympic ceremonies or politicians is not exactly uncommon.


Or vice versa (you).



californiadreams said:


> I'm sure the people responsible for Rio 2016, particularly its opening, really believed they were doing great planning and great work: Tricycles, goofy costumes, and Tom Brady's wife walking down the infield for several minutes?! Fantastic!


OMG! Let the ceremonies GO! How many times are you going to repeat this. You disliked the ceremonies.....we get it.

THe girl from Ipanema....Classic! You should take a listen! Basanova!

Every host cities does what it can with the budget it was given. Hundreds of people volunteered and are proud of their city!! Technology evolves, progress is made... You cant compare them based on tricks or gimmicks. They are a stamp in time! No city goes in wanting to fail. No artist wants to be embarrassed. You shouldn't be presumptuous. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

RobH said:


> Really, I would think LA24 needs to de-politicise its pitch as far as possible now, focus on what the city can offer the Games, try to make the IOC voters forget Trump for the time it takes them to watch their presentation and vote for the host city. i.e. from your article, keep pushing _this_ message....


Yep, I agree with this take. There is a saying in American politics: "If you're explaining, then you're losing." LA 2024 should try to minimize the negative effects of the current administration rather than constantly bringing them up, and focus on the immediate aspects of the bid.
That being said, if good international news comes LA's way, then push it! :lol:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

redspork02 said:


> THE Chicago bid logo did have meaning...look up the city of Chicago flag and its symbolism to the cities history.....just cuz you didn't like it. The logo wasn't even talked about....during the bid process.
> THe bid lost due to politics within the IOC VS USOC and NBC.
> 
> Local folks not following the bid details daily would not have known the details of this. Including a desk anchor who was live on air, obviously by video...I saw that live (CNN) an remember thinking she has no clue about what was happening.
> ...


You spin things one way, I spin things another.

So be it.

As far as I'm concerned, Chicago 2016 lost not so much because of politics, but because its bid wasn't all that great. At least based on what I've seen in its bid books and other presentation material. And, yes, I know what its unofficial logo was based on. But it was one of the various details of Chicago 2016 that struck me as uninspiring and way too provincial.

Your also bringing up the issue of money and Rio, as least as they relate to 2016's ceremonies, is an indication that you confuse poor judgment for a lack of dollars. 

Even if the planners of the last summer games had been given a bigger budget to work with, the opening probably would have been no better than what occurred with London 2012's far more expensive production. That would include things like Mr Bean and his snot-rag humor or the har-de-har idea that "James Bond" and the Queen should parachute into the stadium together.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Thing is, the last few posts are being debated over from a USA perspective. Because 2016 was really a case of Rio winning, not Chicago losing. _That_ was the story. The IOC was having disagreements with USOC over various financial matters, which are now resolved, and that might not have helped Chicago, but the reality is the USA, Japan and Spain were all swept aside by an IOC enamoured with the idea of a South American Games. Chicago lost because Rio won, basically.

Chicago actually had a solid bid. It's possible, with Beijing 2008 recently representing Asia and London 2012 recently representing Europe it could've beaten Tokyo and Madrid if it was the only bid from the American continent. But it wasn't, and the rest is history...

----

_Since we're on a tangent, Chicago's logo was actually changed near the start of the bid process because they used the symbolism of the Olympic torch, which non-host cities aren't meant to use. The original logo was a combination of the Willis Tower and an Olympic torch. It was a small faux-pas on Chicago's part...








_


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## Akai (Nov 16, 2011)

Paris 2024






https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg4W1uf-i5X1nVaeWJsKuyA/videos


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Akai said:


> Paris 2024
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A shame that the Paris PR push has deteriorated into an homage to the Eiffel Tower. You could at least mention the Arc de Triomphe or Notre Dame (maybe they want to avoid militarism and religion, :lol. Or the sports facilities. 

Focus is good but not when it becomes repetitive. And it's not like Paris doesn't have sites.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

That video doesn't really go anywhere does it?!


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## CaliforniaJones (Apr 9, 2009)

David Owen: Reading between the lines – my analysis of the 2024 bid books


By David Owen Wednesday, 8 February 2017

Never mind the politics; never mind the terrorist threat still hanging over Paris; never mind disconcerting financial questions, such as will France still have the euro as its currency in 2024?; never mind any of these things.

As the clock ticks down towards Lima, there seems to be more and more of a chance that both the Los Angeles and Paris 2024 Olympic and Paralympic bid projects will see the light of day in some way, shape or form.

While working through the two cities’ final bid books in recent days, therefore, I have tried to view both as blueprints that stand a relatively good prospect one day of being realised.

And, given the rising doubts over whether this truly is the head-to-head clash of the titans that one would in the past have expected in a Summer Olympic contest, I have tried, insofar as is possible, to disregard the PR bla-bla-bla that would be – might yet be – a potent factor in an orthodox race where there could be only one winner.

Here is a run-down of my first impressions:

1. Neither of these will be cheap Olympics for the consumer – at least if you want to see the decisive medal stages of events.

Both are looking to raise more than $1 billion (£800 million/€934 million) from Olympic ticket sales. This would break London 2012’s all-time record of $988 million (£788 million/€923 million). (Rio 2016 will be much less; Tokyo 2020 probably more.)

Paris – which has assumed a fairly prudent sales rate of 85 per cent – says half of tickets will be priced at less than $55 (£44/€51). Its average ticket price though is $117 (£93/€109). The average for dressage is $125 (£100/€117); judo $170 (£136/€159); and trampolining $178 (£142/€166). It will have more than a million athletics tickets to sell at a projected average of $214 (£171/€200) each. If you want to see the Opening Ceremony live, it will set you back on average $1,471 (£1,174/€1375) a ticket.

Los Angeles has set itself the demanding target of matching London by selling 97 per cent of available tickets across the board. Atlanta managed only 75 per cent; LA 1984 82 per cent.

Its 2024 pricing breakdown is more detailed, in that it gives separate figures for preliminaries and finals. The average price of a ticket at the swimming finals, for example, is $420.17 (£335.35/€392.69); canoe slalom finals - $134.98 (£107.73/€126.15); artistic gymnastics finals - $370.95 (£296.11/€346.70).

LA’s wheeze of staging the Opening Ceremony at two venues should see it raise well over $100 million (£80 million/€93.5 million) from tickets for that one event alone. The average price of Opening Ceremony tickets for the LA Stadium is $1,783.02 (£1,423.17/€1,666.20); but you would be able to attend what is being billed as “Opening Ceremony – Celebration” at the venerable LA Memorial Coliseum for an average of $350 (£279/€327) a ticket.

Incidentally, if any group of sports fans could be said to be looking at a bargain in either blueprint, it has to be US golf aficionados: LA 2024 golf preliminaries are priced inexplicably at an average of just $13.12 (£10.47/€12.26) a ticket.

2. The Paris bid book has a number of thoughtful, small touches and innovations; LA can point to one very powerful big idea.

Paris’s masterplan scores high marks for imagination. Some examples:

Given that the main installations, the Stade de France, the aquatics centre and the Olympic Village will be well away from the central tourist zone in unlovely St Denis, it seems an excellent idea to site an Athletes’ House in the charming Petit Palais.
A personalised flag for all medallists is another nice touch.
A test event for the Olympic and Paralympic Village seems a prudent innovation, especially given the problems at Rio, and I am impressed that thinking has already extended to including France’s far-flung overseas départements in the torch relay, imbuing it with a global aspect.
LA’s big idea is harnessing California’s unassailable leadership position in the communications applications which have such an important place in the lives of the young people that the Olympic Movement is striving to capture.

Its thinking on a proposed Athlete Concierge app is already at an impressively advanced stage. The idea is for athletes to get a wireless, wifi-enabled device, including access to said app, as soon as teams for the Games are announced, before they get to LA.

In some respects at least, the promised functions of the app look reassuringly down-to-earth and practical: athletes will be able, we are told, to see how crowded the various dining halls are, or to order a meal to pick up and eat in their room.

3. Central Paris, inside the périph ring road, is tiny; LA is vast. The French capital’s ambition seems to be to turn this entire central area into an Olympic party zone; in LA, the focus seems to be much more on the four sports parks where most of the venues are located.

Paris 2024 envisages a “vallée de l’art” along the Seine and two “allées olympiques”, one stretching all the way to the Stade de France, as well as official live sites at Trocadéro and la Villette.

It could be magical – if (and it is a big ‘if’) the whole affair is not overcommercialised.

The same proviso applies to LA’s sports park concept. While mention of “a revenue opportunity for ticketed access to the Live Sites themselves – separate from the sports venues within the sports parks” does not bode well, if the California youth technology brands I have already referred to can be brought on board in a creative way, it is not hard to imagine a real buzz developing, with or without an extra entry fee.

4. Paris and the Olympics are made for one another. For 11 months of the year, Paris is probably the world’s best-known tourist destination; for one month – August, or really from soon after the quatorze juillet – it is a ghost town.

This dovetails perfectly with the global sporting calendar, which is suited just fine by a Summer Olympics in Paris’s selected time-slot of August 2 to 18. It should ensure that the Games are popular with the city’s cafés and trade and retail outlets too – though not necessarily with their employees - since everything the Olympics brings will be essentially incremental business.

However, there is a very good reason, beyond the school holidays, why Paris empties out after Bastille Day: the weather. There is something particularly debilitating about a Paris canicule, literally translated as dog-days. At its most intense, it combines heat with utter breezelessness.

While the date makes perfect sense in every other way, the possibility of this sort of heatwave could be a real problem for athletes and ordinary spectators, and the chances of it occurring are high enough that organisers really do need to be prepared, with water and shade in areas where queues build up at the very least.

You might even argue that an August Games shifts the idea of making the Seine swimmable again out of the “nice to have” column into the one marked “highly desirable”.

I thought I would just check what conditions were like for the previous two Olympic Marathons staged in the city, et voilà. In an account of the shambolic race that started at 2.30pm on July 19, 1900 in his Official History of the Olympic Games, David Miller alludes to “the 90°F heat”.

The Official Report for the 1924 Games, when the race was run on July 13, states: “Because of the experience of the cross-country race, in which numerous runners fell victim to the sun”, it was decided to start the Marathon at 5pm, “that is to say when the great heat would have cooled down."

In his account of this cross-country race, Miller says that the temperature “touched 35°C (95°F)”, that only 15 out of 38 finished and that “ambulance men could barely cope with the demands” while “a Spaniard and four Swedes collapsed and were rushed to hospital”.

I dwell on this not to condemn the proposed timing: I doubt you could stage a Summer Olympics in Paris at any other time. But to underline that the possibility of similar conditions recurring just has to be taken seriously. You can schedule endurance events intelligently, but the cost and logistical implications of coping with thousands of foreigners roaming Paris, some of them underprepared, in possible heatwave conditions need to be taken into account by organisers.

5. If weather is a factor that I fear might impact the Olympic experience in Paris, getting around is the issue that concerns me in LA.

Several provisos: if you have an air-conditioned car at your disposal and permission to use the Olympic lane network, I expect you’ll be OK; if your accommodation is in, or adjacent to, the same sports park as the events you want to see, I don’t see a problem either; I am also aware that dire predictions were made on the transport front in 1984 which turned out to be largely groundless.

It is only fair that I admit too that I do not know LA as well as Paris; however, my colleague Liam Morgan was there last week and reported traffic problems.

Set within this context, the bid book’s transport section did set my antennae twitching for a number of reasons, starting with the utter impenetrability of its first sentence. I quote: “LA2024 has garnered support from key local public agencies to assist with program execution, incorporating analyzed and validated strategies, and leveraging existing initiatives to develop a pragmatic and viable LA2024 Transport Strategy.” 

Well, howdee and welcome to management-speak central.

Then there is the unimpressiveness of some of the bid’s aims and claims. One key objective is said to be “to aim for all ticketed spectators to use public transport for some part of their journey during the Games”. Every sports park is said to be “within 3.5 km of a rail station or BRT stop”. Rowing and canoeing venue Lake Perris is “approximately 32 km from a commuter rail station”.

I have also pored over more of these bid books than the average bear, and this is the first one I can recall judging pavement repairs to be worthy of mention. By 2024, LA tells us, its “sidewalk repair program” will be “well on its way to improving or replacing nearly 11,000 miles of concrete sidewalk”.

Finally, there is the purple line extension. Thanks to recent approval of a sales tax measure, we are told, “Metro now has the funding in hand to accelerate the project for completion to Westwood, right at the doorstep of the Olympic and Paralympic Village at UCLA, by 2024”. Is that a commitment to have that part of the line, which sounds like it would be much-appreciated by athletes (and more importantly students), ready and operational in time for the Games? Maybe; not sure.

I do not want to over-dramatise this, but it sounds like many of us are set to be dependent much of the time on dedicated Olympic and Paralympic bus services. These were OK in London and Beijing, but so poor in Rio that I abandoned them after two days – at least though, the new metro line and good value taxis meant that in Brazil I had that option.

If I were a sport whose main venue is not in the Downtown sports park, I think I would be checking the public transport situation very carefully and pushing hard where necessary for bus services to be as frequent and convenient as possible.

A decent level of service is quite do-able if effectively planned and resourced to the level that is necessary. Once again, I was not particularly reassured to note that the sum budgeted for transport – at $204 million (£162.8 million/€190.6 million) – is slightly less than the $212.6 million (£169.7 million/€198.6 million) budgeted by Paris where, in my experience, you can get almost anywhere by train or metro.

In terms solely of enhancing this famously car-oriented city’s public transport options and allowing its so-called “transport renaissance” to pick up more steam, you could even argue that a 2028 Olympics would make more sense for LA than 2024.

6. After the mega-project era that started after Los Angeles last hosted the Games and culminated with Sochi, the Olympic Movement as a whole is now ultra-keen to downplay the amount of spending that Games hosting requires.

This has obviously had an impact on the way both bids have been conceived and presented. The Paris document highlights early on that 95 per cent of venues in its Games plan are existing or temporary. In LA, “all competition and non-competition venues either exist, are already planned as permanent venues by private investors with all necessary construction approvals and committed sources of funding, or will be temporary”.

Make no mistake though, both blueprints require quite a lot to be spent in their respective cities by 2024 if they are to be realised in line with current plans. Particularly in LA’s case, most of this spending is not specifically for the Olympics. But neither city would be able to lay on the Games as mapped out in their respective literature tomorrow.

These lists are not intended to be comprehensive, but Paris 2024 assumes: a new Olympic Village at $1.45 billion (£1.16 billion/€1.35 billion), a new media village ($372.5 million (£297 million/€348 million)), work at Roland Garros ($399 million (£318 million/ €373 million)), work on the Stade de France ($79.8 million (£62.4 million/€73 million)), a new aquatics centre ($123 million (£98 million/€115 million)), the Paris Arena II indoor arena, venue for basketball, wrestling and goalball ($51.3 million (£40.9 million/€47.9 million)), work on the Grand Palais, venue for fencing and taekwondo ($11.4 million (£9.1 million/€10.6 million)) and work on the Water Sports Centre, venue for canoeing ($42.75 million (£34.1 million/ €39.9 million).

LA 2024 plans to make use of: a new American football stadium ($2.6 billion (£2.1 billion/€2.4 billion)), a new soccer stadium ($350 million (£279 million/€327 million)), sales tax-funded transport infrastructure (around $7.4 billion (£5.9 billion/€6.9 billion)) and venue infrastructure that is in the Organising Committee budget – mainly temporary (up to $1.4 billion (£1.1 billion/€1.3 billion).

Of this last figure, $53 million (in 2016 dollars) is earmarked for the Olympic and Paralympic Village on the UCLA campus. Given that the bid book says on page 4 that LA offers “an existing, no-risk” Village, I was a little surprised to read later that UCLA had “committed to providing 2,085 new rooms with 4,169 beds within new housing developments to meet the IOC requirements”.

Spending on security will also no doubt be heavy, yet LA 2024 does not appear to include an estimate for it in its budget, saying it is “NSSE” and noting that government “will provide services/resources at cost where relevant”. Paris 2024 estimates security costs at what I would think is an optimistic $230 million (£183.5 million/€215 million).

7. France and the United States have diametrically-opposed approaches to urban planning – what the French call aménagement du territoire – with public authorities led by the state exercising a leading role, sometimes heavy-handedly so, in the former, while private interests tend to be far more prominent in the USA. These two bids reflect this.

In Paris, a delivery authority called Solideo - in which we are told all concerned local authorities will contribute to the governance structure – will be responsible for planning and delivery of all Games-related venue and infrastructure projects.

In LA, the Organising Committee will be the delivery authority. The bid book makes much of this, stating: “Unique to the US market, there will be no state government venue delivery equivalent to that of the Tokyo Metropolitan Government (TMG), no municipal government venue delivery like Rio’s Empresa Olímpica Municipal (EOM) and no federal government venue delivery like London’s Olympic Deliery Authority (ODA). [The Organising Committee] will bear full responsibility for ensuring the quality of the venues within our Games concept and their timely delivery.”

No doubt times have changed, but on reading this I could not help thinking of the start of chapter six of LA 1984 bid leader Peter Ueberroth’s book, Made in America.

“It was now time for the [Organising Committee] to transform an area two hundred miles long by fifty miles wide into a giant Olympic playground,” he wrote. “Most people called it Los Angeles; I called it a nightmare.” Ueberroth went on to reveal that disagreements over contract terms at one venue, the Coliseum, “continued up until virtually the morning of the Opening Ceremonies”.

If both these projects do come to fruition, albeit not (obviously enough) at the same time, it will be fascinating to assess which planning/delivery approach appears to cope with the inevitable conflicts and strains the better.

http://www.insidethegames.biz/artic...n-the-lines-my-analysis-of-the-2024-bid-books


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## alexandru.mircea (May 18, 2011)

What a bizarre idea to highlight hot weather as the potential problem for the Paris Olympics. Sure there can be the occasional heatwave but nowhere near the possibility of having, say, 17 degrees Celsius with cold windy rain. Paris' weather is almost identical to that of London (London has more precipitation on average but Paris actually has less sunshine on average).


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

You're right. Western Europe is close to perfect temperature-wise. Not sweltering and certainly not cold with very little wind. And you only need to look back at the 2012 Evaluation Report from the IOC to see Paris' climate doesn't concern them:



> Average temperatures (according to figures provided, 26ºC at 3 p.m.) and humidity levels at proposed Games-time are satisfactory, as are wind speeds. There is an average of five precipitation days in Paris at proposed Games-time.


https://stillmed.olympic.org/media/...tion/EN_2012_Evaluation_Commission_report.pdf

Paris shouldn't have the issues of sweltering heat like Athens had (particularly during endurance events) or the issues Rio had with high winds at certain venues. Hopefully it'll have a little less rain than London too, though after fears of a wash-out the weather in London was mostly decent in the end. We got a little wet during the hockey, but I quite like the crowd photo I got as a result.


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## alexandru.mircea (May 18, 2011)

There's a high chance of disgruntled tourists ragequitting like "This is supposed to be the SUMMER Olympics!", can't hide that. I've had to deal with this when I had my mum visit in August (tbf she also stayed enough to catch the short heatwave).


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Western Europe has almost perfect weather in summer? That tells you how bad the winters are. :lol: Rain can linger for days, temperatures are be quite variable and humidity is generally unpleasant. And the lack of air conditioning in many locations makes any temperature above 70 both humid and oppressively hot indoors.

But I will agree that all of this is irrelevant to site selection or the Olympic spirit generally. After all it's hard to imagine the ancient Greeks cutting much slack to athletes who claimed it was too hot or too humid to run or wrestle or whatever today let's leave it for tomorrow. For sure, not a sign of arête. :lol:


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

pesto said:


> Western Europe has almost perfect weather in summer? That tells you how bad the winters are. :lol: Rain can linger for days, temperatures are be quite variable and humidity is generally unpleasant. And the lack of air conditioning in many locations makes any temperature above 70 both humid and oppressively hot indoors.
> 
> But I will agree that all of this is irrelevant to site selection or the Olympic spirit generally. After all it's hard to imagine the ancient Greeks cutting much slack to athletes who claimed it was too hot or too humid to run or wrestle or whatever today let's leave it for tomorrow. For sure, not a sign of arête. :lol:


It's not irrelevant, though it's unlikely to be decisive. The evaluation reports have a section on weather conditions, so it's taken into account. The point is, the IOC has no concerns about moderate Western European climates for athletes, as can be seen from their evaluation reports. Cities with hotter summers like Madrid are flagged up, as are wetter/colder cities like Moscow. In both cases athlete welfare is mentioned as is the possibility of including contingencies within their scheduling.

It's just weird that that article focusses so much on Paris' climate when the last IOC report for Paris, for their 2012 bid, doesn't mention any concerns in this regard.


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## Nacre (May 9, 2016)

Los Angeles is much hotter than Paris in the summer (although less humid) so I don't see why this is even a discussion. And while Paris gets more rain than Los Angeles in August, that's because Los Angeles gets virtually none at all: it averages 1mm of rain than month.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> It's not irrelevant, though it's unlikely to be decisive. The evaluation reports have a section on weather conditions, so it's taken into account. The point is, the IOC has no concerns about moderate Western European climates for athletes, as can be seen from their evaluation reports. Cities with hotter summers like Madrid are flagged up, as are wetter/colder cities like Moscow. In both cases athlete welfare is mentioned as is the possibility of including contingencies within their scheduling.
> 
> It's just weird that that article focusses so much on Paris' climate when the last IOC report for Paris, for their 2012 bid, doesn't mention any concerns in this regard.


I don't think we are disagreeing. Weather IS irrelevant in the areas we are talking about. Of course, you have to take some recognition if there is a possibility for snow, searing heat, constant heavy rains or such, but those aren't issues in LA, Paris or Budapest.

Again, this is the Olympics not a frou-frou garden party where we wouldn't want our porcelain like skin marred.


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## LosAngelesSportsFan (Oct 20, 2004)

Nacre said:


> Los Angeles is much hotter than Paris in the summer (although less humid) so I don't see why this is even a discussion. And while Paris gets more rain than Los Angeles in August, that's because Los Angeles gets virtually none at all: it averages 1mm of rain than month.


Most of LA's sports clusters (Downtown LA, Westside / Santa Monica / UCLA) and Long Beach will be in areas that benefit from sea breeze. Most likely wont be more than 80 - 85 in those areas with low humidity and a slight breeze... Should be just right.. I dont have concerns about Paris weather either... Its a non story. Honestly, both cities are amazing as are the bids.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Nacre said:


> Los Angeles is much hotter than Paris in the summer (although less humid) so I don't see why this is even a discussion. And while Paris gets more rain than Los Angeles in August, that's because Los Angeles gets virtually none at all: it averages 1mm of rain than month.


LA is not "much hotter" than Paris in August. Downtown LA will be a little higher than Paris but Westwood, Santa Monica, Inglewood and Carson, where many activities will be, are a little cooler. Humidity is much lower and nights tend to cool off more than in Paris due to ocean breezes.

The Southern California inland deserts and valleys will be much hotter but there are few if any events scheduled there.

But, as I said, this is not an issue. Both cities have very reasonable weather in August.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

> These lists are not intended to be comprehensive, but Paris 2024 assumes: a new Olympic Village at $1.45 billion (£1.16 billion/€1.35 billion), a new media village ($372.5 million (£297 million/€348 million)), work at Roland Garros ($399 million (£318 million/ €373 million)), work on the Stade de France ($79.8 million (£62.4 million/€73 million)), a new aquatics centre ($123 million (£98 million/€115 million)), the Paris Arena II indoor arena, venue for basketball, wrestling and goalball ($51.3 million (£40.9 million/€47.9 million)), work on the Grand Palais, venue for fencing and taekwondo ($11.4 million (£9.1 million/€10.6 million)) and work on the Water Sports Centre, venue for canoeing ($42.75 million (£34.1 million/ €39.9 million).
> 
> LA 2024 plans to make use of: a new American football stadium ($2.6 billion (£2.1 billion/€2.4 billion)), a new soccer stadium ($350 million (£279 million/€327 million)), sales tax-funded transport infrastructure (around $7.4 billion (£5.9 billion/€6.9 billion)) and venue infrastructure that is in the Organising Committee budget – mainly temporary (up to $1.4 billion (£1.1 billion/€1.3 billion).


This is what I took away from the article, not the silly weather opinion. 

PARIS 24 themselves have to build/renovate these venues?
Why is this guys opinion right? or wrong? How does he know?


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## nbcee (Mar 2, 2013)

I don't wish to be rude, but the main thing here is still to convince that couple of dozen people who will vote on the whole thing. These articles about WE climate and stuff exist only to fill the gaps between other news.


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## alexandru.mircea (May 18, 2011)

redspork02 said:


> This is what I took away from the article, not the silly weather opinion.
> 
> PARIS 24 themselves have to build/renovate these venues?
> Why is this guys opinion right? or wrong? How does he know?


Paris is now in a development boom like it hasn't been seen since the post-war era, the majority of projects that you will see referred to as being done "for the Olympics" have been happening regardless. The huge new public transport network (GPE) that will serve the key Olympic sites comes from the vision of president Sarkozy almost a decade ago, the works have already started. That area along the Seine that was proposed for the Olympic Village has been redeveloping already and some stuff is already in use. It's one of the key places of the rebirth of Greater Paris; among other things, a huge hospital complex will be built there. (Coincidentally, I visited the place yesterday and took photos). The Bercy arena has just been refurbished, the huge Arena 92 will be opened this year. The redevelopment of Roland Garros would have happened (for its own benefit) a long time ago had it not been for locals stopping it in court. Jean Bouin stadium has already been rebuilt completely a few years ago. The refurbishment of the art spaces of Grand Palais has been announced years ago, only the main hall refurbishment has been announced now in synergy with the Olympic bid. The building of the second arena at Bercy was happening anyway because the municipality still wants to develop a great basketball club of top European level (an ambition that has failed to materialize with the last attempt, in 2007, when the Racing Paris and Levallois clubs were merged and given home in the small-ish arena in Levallois). There are projects that are happening and can't even be included as Olympic venues, like the national handball centre. The stadiums for the football tournament have already been built / redeveloped for the EURO 2016 tournament. So counting such projects as expensive costs of hosting the Olympics does not tell the real story IMO. 

As for rennovations to the Stade de France, it is the first time I hear this, maybe it has escaped me. 

(What's "goalball" btw? Wikipedia only has basketball and wrestball assigned to the Bercy II arena, no "goalball".)

So overall I'd say that this bid is an example of sanity in terms of event planning and public governance. Very little question marks to raise, the only one I can think of is the fact that there is no post-Olympic tennant for the old Olympic stadium in Colombes (which is set to host the field hockey), although I don't know if any significant spending is actually envisaged for this venues.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Mayors from around the world offer their support for Paris' Olympic bid

The competition to host the 2024 Summer Olympics just got a little tougher for Los Angeles with mayors from more than 50 cities worldwide voicing their support for rival Paris.

The joint statement is signed by political leaders from 35 capitals and six cities — Athens, Barcelona, Mexico City, Montreal, Munich and Sydney — that have previously hosted the Games.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Just as there was hubris or naivete back in 2009 when the Chicago 2016 committee and its supporters and supposed experts on the Olympic movement rated Chicago's bid far higher than warranted, I think the same problem - or certainly naivete - is a factor for the Los Angeles 2024 committee and USOC. 

To be oblivious to the fact of Los Angeles hosting the games only 33 years ago - which is like yesterday in the bigger picture - and Paris not hosting them since 1924 won't almost force the emotions - yep, good ol' human emotions - of most people on the IOC in one direction only is very naive.

This is also very different from the situation back in 1989 of Athens being the emotional favorite to host the centennial Olympics but the IOC ultimately not feeling that same way and throwing sentimentality out the window. That's because Paris is a thousand times more well structured and reliable than Athens.

If the Los Angeles 2024 committee has any sense, they'll push for a two-city selection in September, with the idea of LA getting 2028 instead of 2024. 

For me personally, if a local committee 11 years from today were to screw up the ceremonies as most Olympic cities have done for over 25 years, I'd just as soon the Olympic circus bypass Los Angeles altogether.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Kenni said:


> Mayors from around the world offer their support for Paris' Olympic bid


Here is the list of the 54 first signatories grouphug:



> 1. Abidjan - Robert Beugré MAMBÉ‎, Minister, Governor of the District of Abidjan
> 
> 2. Alexandria - General Reda FARAHAT, Governor of Alexandria
> 
> ...


*Paris.fr*


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## ticosk8 (Aug 14, 2007)

^^

Trump effect?


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

ticosk8 said:


> Trump effect?


And the _International Organisation of La Francophonie_ (OIF) solidarity it seems...since out of these 54 cities, 38 are located in OIF member and/or observer states... :|


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

alexandru.mircea said:


> (What's "goalball" btw? Wikipedia only has basketball and wrestball assigned to the Bercy II arena, no "goalball".)


Presumably you're looking at a list of proposed Olympic venues. Goalball is a Paralympic sport:
_
Goalball is a sport for athletes with visual impairments. It is played by two teams of three using a ball with bells inside. The ball is the size of a basketball but twice the weight. The object of the game is to throw the ball into the opposing team's net, while defenders attempt to block it with their bodies._


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## marokko (Nov 28, 2010)

> Here is the list of the 54 first signatories ():


Paris would be a great choice for the Olympics. They are also slightly my favorite above LA and Budapest is actually also a good bid. They're just unlucky with the very strong contenders....

However I would not put too much attention to that list, which was quite predictable. Almost all the cities are from the Francophone world. Some countries are by the way represented by two cities. The list shows that the support is based on historic reasons. It was probably the same with Britain 5 years ago with commonwealth countries voting for the London bid. But it becomes more difficult for LA to win, if countries are going to vote sentimentally. With the US politics nowadays, I can imagine that not only Francophone countries, but that also most European, Muslim and Spanish countries are going to vote for Paris as host. In such a scenario, it will become very difficult for LA to win ...


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Kenni said:


> Mayors from around the world offer their support for Paris' Olympic bid
> 
> The competition to host the 2024 Summer Olympics just got a little tougher for Los Angeles with mayors from more than 50 cities worldwide voicing their support for rival Paris.
> 
> The joint statement is signed by political leaders from 35 capitals and six cities — Athens, Barcelona, Mexico City, Montreal, Munich and Sydney — that have previously hosted the Games.


Are you serious? This is just bottom of the barrel PR for when you have nothing to say. Serves to distract from the really relevant criteria. Zero influence on anyone with influence on the decision. 

What's the next list, star chefs, retired soccer players, one-armed stock car drivers, great Armenian poets, etc.?


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> What's the next list, star chefs, retired soccer players, one-armed stock car drivers, great Armenian poets, etc.?



The Spice Girls.

With running commentary in Française too:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

marokko said:


> They are also slightly my favorite above LA and Budapest is actually also a good bid..


Some Hungarians may feel differently.



> *NOlimpia Closes In On Budapest 2024 Referendum Target With A Week To Go As Bid Support Weakens*
> 
> By Robert Livingstone | Published Feb 9, 2017 7:56 PM in Featured, 2024 Olympic Bid News
> 
> ...


When the Los Angeles 2024 Committee was talking about building a large, costly Olympic Village next to the Los Angeles River, my own confidence in and respect for their bid plummeted. 

Even without that, I'm still leery about the city hosting another games, based on the possibility that important LA 2024 people like Casey Wasserman may very well believe that recent Olympics have been to great ceremonies the same way they think Tito's Tacos is to great Mexican food.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

Akai said:


> Paris 2024
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Without the top part of the 2 on the Paris 2024 logo projected on the Eiffel it appears even more to read LA. 

But I have to agree. Paris has reduced its bid to the Eiffel Tower. It's, to me, a double edged sword. On one hand you have this incredible monument that is prestigious and world renowned. On the other Paris is essentially counting on its past to secure its future bid. 

On the contrary LA2024 is pressing the message of the new, cutting edge and a pipeline to youth through technology. It's sticking out on LA's bid as described in the article posted above. 

In that respect I can see LA 2028 and Paris 2024. Paris closing the book on the past, and LA opening it for the future.


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## CaliforniaJones (Apr 9, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> Without the top part of the 2 on the Paris 2024 logo projected on the Eiffel it appears even more to read LA.
> 
> But I have to agree. Paris has reduced its bid to the Eiffel Tower. It's, to me, a double edged sword. On one hand you have this incredible monument that is prestigious and world renowned. On the other Paris is essentially counting on its past to secure its future bid.
> 
> ...


Agree with that, considering Budapest bid is becoming less popular among Hungarian citizens.
As we see in this election, the number of candidates has shrunk from the beginning because of public opinion.
Furthermore Paris and LA are so strong and they make sense.
With LA 2028, the Donald will have gone from presidency.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Please remember that the 3rd February 2017 was the first date bid cities were permitted to do any international promotion of their bids. Launching a video and the slogan, and getting over a million hits on said video, is a decent enough start to the international promotion phase for Paris. I'm sure there will be more to come.



> *The delivery of the Candidature File Stage 3 also marks the beginning of international promotion. The three Candidate Cities are now allowed to promote their projects outside their national boundaries. *


https://www.olympic.org/news/los-an...enter-final-stage-of-2024-candidature-process

In any case Paris' bid hasn't been reduced to just the Eiffel Tower, it's being used as a focal point. Paris seems to be emphasising a global theme with focus on environmentalism both locally and internationally, education and sports participation (again both locally and globally) and global responsibility (e.g. launching initiatives with UNICEF to make sure good comes of their bid, something the IOC will love). It doesn't take much looking to find all this stuff.

It's a different tactic to what LA is doing but is certainly just as broad, and with the 3rd February date passed, they can be more bullish in how they promote this now without breaking IOC rules.

In terms of the venue plan it's clear they want to make central Paris feel like an Olympic Park, contrasting themselves with recent hosts who've built purpose built, self-contained parks. That will mean lots of pictures of central Paris, of course, but is that actually a bad thing?

Paris' bid will look to the future just as much as LA's, but it will clearly have a more global, humanitarian focus compared with LA's youth/tech/celeb focus. Both are interesting ideas with a lot of merit and I can see one following on from the other well. To see Paris 2024 as closing the book on the past and LA opening it to the future is a funny little narrative from LA supporters, but in truth they'll both add to the Games in their own way if they become hosts of the 33rd and 34th Olympiad. Neither will be a brand new start or and ending in themselves.


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## Resss (Feb 19, 2015)

Yes, what a shame to introduce the new campain's motto on the Eiffel Tower, espacially when you know it's the launching of an international campain! It should be more impressive to introduce it in a small business center, like if Paris was ashamed of his bid. I also think Paris should destroy the Eiffel Tower to open the book of the future. :crazy:


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Resss said:


> I also think Paris should destroy the Eiffel Tower to open the book of the future. :crazy:


:yes: 



opcorn:










:nuts:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

The easiest, best strategy for the Paris 2024 committee to pursue is one where lots of IOC members are made to feel as guilty as possible. So the committee should keep emphasizing that Paris has been waiting for over 90 years to host the games again, and that a person long associated with the Olympics, Pierre du Coubertin, was from Paris.

I also find myself thinking of Los Angeles as somehow apart from the US. So I keep focusing on the figure of 40 years, or back to 1984. But when it comes to the last time a particular country in general played host to the summer games, it was only a very recent 21 years ago in America, in Atlanta 1996.

In regards to the next summer games, I originally thought Tokyo would handle it with ease. But all the problems of the 2020 committee's oversized budgets and their issues with the main stadium now make me suspect that the controversies of the past will continue in some shape or form in the future.

At one time I thought London 2012 would return some greatness back to the games, but that sure as heck didn't happen. 

I never had high hopes for Rio 2016, and my modest expectations for those games were born out. But I thought Tokyo 2020 might return some of the traditional dignity of 1964 back to the Olympics. I now seriously doubt that will occur.

I don't know if this is to Tokyo what the really bad official logo was to London 2012:








I grimace when I think of what Tokyo 2020's opening ceremony probably is going to be like. Take your pick: The weird corniness of anime or the weird corniness of Cirque du Soleil. Probably, regrettably, a bit of both.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Some people have been trying to politicize the Olympics 2024 campaign by focusing mainly on one of the three countries whose cities are bidding, and not all that much on the one that has the front runner.

The selective angst and outrage or resentment have been about as sophisticated, well thought-out and nuanced as most recent Olympic ceremonies.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> *Some people have been trying to politicize the Olympics 2024 campaign by focusing mainly on one of the three *


Pesto and yourself regarding Paris ^^?


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

californiadreams said:


> I grimace when I think of what Tokyo 2020's opening ceremony probably is going to be like. Take your pick: The weird corniness of anime or the weird corniness of Cirque du Soleil. Probably, regrettably, a bit of both.


Oooh I hope not. I hate the thought, but with the video above looks like that's the trend. (crossing fingers that they don't muck it up)

Nagano was ok. No dancing anime there.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

parcdesprinces said:


> Pesto and yourself regarding Paris ^^?


Please, don't be childish as well as ignorant. What have I said to politicize this discussion?

I have tried to stop it at every opportunity from noting the absurd and insulting claims of the Rome supporters re the FSM and Raggi, to the likelihood of defeat of Renzi and his proposals, to the French security issues (where I agree 100 percent with Hollande's and the French parliament's position that a review and modernization was needed urgently) to the election of Trump, which I said should be neutral in the decision process and in any event his positions on immigration and citizenship are no less stringent than those of leading French presidential contenders.

Meanwhile, your contribution to the discussion has been primarily a smug confidence that Paris is the anointed and that discussion about qualities of bids, financing, venues and experience is secondary to the favors owed to the political old boys network that still runs some European institutions. Why bother posting if you think the discussion is so useless?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> It's not irrelevant, though it's unlikely to be decisive. The evaluation reports have a section on weather conditions, so it's taken into account. The point is, the IOC has no concerns about moderate Western European climates for athletes, as can be seen from their evaluation reports. Cities with hotter summers like Madrid are flagged up, as are wetter/colder cities like Moscow. In both cases athlete welfare is mentioned as is the possibility of including contingencies within their scheduling.
> 
> It's just weird that that article focusses so much on Paris' climate when the last IOC report for Paris, for their 2012 bid, doesn't mention any concerns in this regard.


Since weather is just not that relevant, this is apropos of nothing. But it may be interesting to you as a Brit:

Just by coincidence, I read yesterday that the week of Thomas More’s execution was “a miserable dripping week in July”, with flooding and difficulties crossing the river to Windsor. 

That would have been in 1535, but things haven’t changed much. I once flew into London on June 21 and the temperature was announced as 32 degrees. I said to the guy next to me “so much for English summer” and he answered “what do you mean, mate?...that IS English summer”.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

pesto said:


> Meanwhile, your contribution to the discussion has been primarily a smug confidence that Paris is the anointed and that discussion about qualities of bids, financing, venues and experience is secondary to the favors owed to the political old boys network that still runs some European institutions. Why bother posting if you think the discussion is so useless?


et:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Kenni said:


> Oooh I hope not. I hate the thought, but with the video above looks like that's the trend. (crossing fingers that they don't muck it up)
> 
> Nagano was ok. No dancing anime there.


Regrettably, the entire world seems to be consumed by the culture of post-grad adolescence, displayed in the whoopie-cushion antics of London 2012's opening and the juvenile goofiness of Rio 2016. It's as though at least among today's younger adults - who are the mainstay of participants in an Olympics - the ideals of arrested development are oh-so-hip. A way of living and thinking encouraged by cultural and political mavens (along with the producers of Olympic openings and closings) who love artsy fartsy, artsy fartsy, touchy feely, touchy feely.

I don't think it's now possible for Tokyo 2020 or Paris 2024 - or Los Angeles if it ever hosts another Olympics - to get away from that.

Look at how Nagano actually spent more money than necessary - the goofy-looking elevator, for example - and in the process violated the principle of less is more. 

The scene in 1998 was way too parochial, with famous skater Midori Ito dressed up like a geisha doll or Japanese-y whatever, as the super-cliche Japanese-y music from Madame Butterfly is playing in the background. 








Nagano 1998 (and London 2012, Rio 2016, etc, etc) ignored the acronym of KISS: "Keep it simple, stupid."

Tokyo 1964 - on a comparatively small budget, no less - at least gave a basic dignity and maturity to the Olympics. The opening was also more appropriately international too, even though 1964 was a coming-out party for post-World-War Japan. 

That maturity and sophistication have since been thoroughly trashed and buried by recent games. 

Even the placard bearers in 1964 looked official and dignified compared with the tricycle-riding adult kiddies in 2016. 

The nice formality of the 3 tall flag poles and the flag bearers standing next to each one of them in Tokyo - which didn't cost all that much in 1964 and wouldn't cost all that much today (but would still be considered a waste of resources) - has given way to the Spice Girls being driven around in black cars, Tom Brady's wife walking down the field, and 1996 pick-up trucks careening around a stadium.


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## SirAce (Mar 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> Please, don't be childish as well as ignorant. What have I said to politicize this discussion?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If there was someone using insulting, ignorant and stereotyped claims that was just you.
Sorry to remind it...


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Resss said:


> Yes, what a shame to introduce the new campain's motto on the Eiffel Tower, espacially when you know it's the launching of an international campain! It should be more impressive to introduce it in a small business center, like if Paris was ashamed of his bid. I also think Paris should destroy the Eiffel Tower to open the book of the future. :crazy:


While trying to be sarcastic you may have actually stumbled onto the truth. A start-up business center or local public space would have been a brilliant way to say "this is about people today, not the monuments of the past that your grandmother admired".

The Eiffel is recognizable but very much a symbol of the past. In the decade before it was built, France still had an emperor who publicly said that it was the duty of the French people to bend their personalities to match his. It has been a great means of attracting older tourists; but you would think that a city with their eyes on the future could show arts districts, new business districts, tech, revitalizing ethnic enclaves, even graffiti covered slums with vibrant street scenes and nightlife. You know: people.

Of course, in PR you show what you think are your long suits; maybe that's where Paris leadership is at these days. Tried and true.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

SirAce said:


> If there was someone using insulting, ignorant and stereotyped claims that was just you.
> Sorry to remind it...


Wow, another subtle, penetrating analysis. You really got me there.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Some people thought the robbery of Kim Kardashian in Paris last October was actually a publicity stunt. I found myself wondering about that, due in part to the crime sounding so involved as to be more like a bad Hollywood movie. 

After all the stories of crime in Rio - before, during and after the Olympics - most other cities, including Paris and Los Angeles, by comparison will be a day in the park. Still - between things like the incident at the Louvre several days ago and stories like the following - I do have to wonder what exactly is going on in Paris.




> *S. Korean tourists in Paris robbed amid suburb unrest *
> 
> 2017/02/12 18:38
> 
> ...


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> Some people thought the robbery of Kim Kardashian in Paris last October was actually a publicity stunt. I found myself wondering about that, due in part to the crime sounding so involved as to be more like a bad Hollywood movie.
> 
> After all the stories of crime in Rio - before, during and after the Olympics - most other cities, including Paris and Los Angeles, by comparison will be a day in the park. Still - between things like the incident at the Louvre several days ago and stories like the following - I do have to wonder what exactly is going on in Paris.


Well, let me start by saying that I don't consider crime in any bid city to be material to the decision (as opposed to Rio, which is off the charts, and our people used to take private transportation and security guards).

But this has been true for years now in Paris. Asians are a specific target for French criminals, as has been highlighted by authorities in the Asian countries themselves who advise tourists to go to Italy or Spain instead where there is less of a culture of hatred. Most disturbing, the targeted Asian is not just mugged, but is afterward subjected to brutal beatings on the street and execution style murders. It's been in the press for some time now with a bit of national soul searching going on.


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## LosAngelesSportsFan (Oct 20, 2004)

Come on now, crime in Paris, LA and Budapest are not of any concern to the IOC. Neither of these 3 are particularly violent or crime ridden


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> (as opposed to Rio, which is off the charts, and our people used to take private transportation and security guards).


Rio proves that just about any city out there in the world - no matter how polluted, crime-ridden and politically, culturally unstable (Brazil's former president being impeached, Rio's infamous favelas, etc) - can pull off hosting an Olympics. Maybe not well or impressively, but any city will still be able to host the quadrennial games nonetheless.

One reason why I focus on Olympic ceremonies is because that's one of the major things of any games that gives them a certain vibe or sense of quality. If Rio 2016 hadn't been such a dud in that regards but had instead done something as mature and dignified as Tokyo 1964 - which sure as heck didn't cost all that much money to produce, even more so by today's overdone, underdone standards and budgets - I'd have come away with a much better impression of Rio. 

That along with the level of attendance at Olympic venues - assuming those venues are in relatively good shape - influences a lot of people's impression of the quality of a games. Rio was also weak in terms of crowd size.

Because so much money probably had been spent on the permanent or non-ephemeral features of the 2016 games, I noticed less was left over for customizing them during the games' two weeks. So the surroundings of the venues in general - noticeable mainly or only to people actually in Rio - weren't all that dressed up and looked very plain.

I could also see the streets of Rio - such as where the marathon was held - weren't done up with banners as the planners did for Los Angeles in 1984 and most other cities hosting the Olympics. However, Atlanta 1996 was slammed for using street banners that had sponsor's names stenciled on them. That was considered way too commercialized and not very professional.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

...


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

> Mayors from around the world offer their support for Paris' Olympic bid
> 
> Here is the list of the 54 first signatories ():
> 
> ...


*Et Tu, Brute?*

:goodnight:goodnight:goodnight


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

redspork02 said:


> *Et Tu, Brute?*
> 
> :goodnight:goodnight:goodnight


Sounds like that mofo is just begging for a border wall. :lol: Some gratitude when the US takes about 20M absolutely destitute Mexican citizens and feeds, educates, provides health care, teaches skills, etc., every year while Mexico continues an "ignore the people" oligarchy.

Of course, these lists are based upon local perceived self-interest more than any actual merits of Paris or LA. Anyone hopeful of continuing or generating foreign aid or tourist dollars from France is going to cheerfully sign up. Except the major Asian countries, who of course have a different view of Paris at the moment.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> Rio proves that just about any city out there in the world - no matter how polluted, crime-ridden and politically, culturally unstable (Brazil's former president being impeached, Rio's infamous favelas, etc) - can pull off hosting an Olympics. Maybe not well or impressively, but any city will still be able to host the quadrennial games nonetheless.
> 
> One reason why I focus on Olympic ceremonies is because that's one of the major things of any games that gives them a certain vibe or sense of quality. If Rio 2016 hadn't been such a dud in that regards but had instead done something as mature and dignified as Tokyo 1964 - which sure as heck didn't cost all that much money to produce, even more so by today's overdone, underdone standards and budgets - I'd have come away with a much better impression of Rio.
> 
> ...


Largely agree, which is why I am surprised that Paris stays so close to the vest, mostly pushing the Eiffel Tower at least in releases that hit the English press (which means for worldwide consumption). 

Yes, you have to mention it some, but it's not like Paris is short on attractions other than "Paris Monumental". If you want to exude a new, vibrant, hip, diverse look you go the 'hoods, streets, tech and art centers, etc. Canal St. Martin has been around for years and is almost establishment by now; highlight some black or Asian or North African 'hoods that are thriving.


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## CaliforniaJones (Apr 9, 2009)

> Lausanne: Olympic leader Thomas Bach does not like losers and that is why Paris and Los Angeles could this year both win the right to host the world's biggest and most complicated sporting event.
> 
> The French and US mega cities are currently locked in battle to stage the 2024 Olympics, along with outsiders Budapest.
> 
> ...


http://www.firstpost.com/sports/oly...-2028-games-to-los-angeles-paris-3282294.html


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

If Budapest goes I think the double host awarding wouldn't be a bad idea. Paris 2024 & LA28.

Paris has said the land for the Olympic village won't be available for 2028, so give them 2024.

LA28 keeps the Games (and their build up) more or less out of Trump's clutches (assuming he's a one term President). It'll also allow the city to include their subway extension with absolute certainty which from what I've read should be a big advantage for spectators.

This would have the added bonus of the the IOC not being put in the embarrassing position of having to consider a potential Russian host with their national doping scandal still fresh (http://rbth.com/news/2017/02/07/3-r...bid-for-hosting-2028-olympics-official_697456). And maybe Canada - the other nation looking at 2028 already - could be somewhat appeased with Calgary 2026, which would, for the time being, lessen the IOC's bigger headache, getting Winter Olympic hosts.

With South Africa looking less and less likely to bid, Asia already covered 2018 through 2022 and potentially Europe getting 2024 if the IOC sticks to their current plan, the field for 2028 could be ridiculously thin anyway. Nailing down LA now for 2028 mightn't be the worst idea. It'll also give the IOC more time to attract bidders for future and work out what needs changing to stop drop outs.

I hated the idea of a double host award when I first heard it because it had the stench of FIFA's failed experiment but it's starting to make a lot of sense as a one-off, given the unique circumstances in this race.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

^^ That's basically my read as well. I doubt this will be a ongoing way of doing the Olympic vote, but it's not a bad idea given the unique circumstances. In this case you have two marquee cities that have rock solid plans and interest in the Games, one in the IOC's most important cultural market (Europe) and one in the IOC's most important commercial market (USA). And in this day and age of cities shunning the Olympics, especially in Western democracies, the worry at the IOC of turning off at least one desirable bid, and the temptation to have both, must be intense. It wouldn't be crazy if they do Paris/LA 2024 and 2028, and then with ten years of solid Olympic hosts lined up (along with a Calgary 2026 Winter Games) they spend the next decade getting their Olympic house in order and reorienting the Games to a more sustainable future.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

The two awards solution seems to be close to a done deal, given the logic of it and the breadth and detail of the published reports about it. But I am guessing Paris 2028 since LA has the experience and political stability while France and the EU are going through some major changes. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/03/french-soldier-shoots-man-outside-louvre-paris

On a related note: Lately it’s been overshadowed by the Paris gang attacks on Asians and riots over systematic police crimes against blacks, but the security cat and mouse game in Paris continues. A few thoughts:

Soft attacks like these (no firearms or explosives) are typically aimed at observing weaknesses in the response protocols so as to exploit them in later attacks. Like most, I assume there will be multiple attacks on civilians timed to force tough decisions on which areas to secure and which situations to treat as irremediable in the short-term.

My guess is that the French security will try to get terrorists to attack high profile targets since it is easier to defend a limited number of sites than train stations, hotels and theaters generally. Their best scenario would be something like the Eiffel Tower, since it is clear of other structures and easier to establish a “cordon sanitaire”. The Louvre is tougher since it has numerous passageways and is in the midst of assets of irreplaceable value.

It is good to see that officials are taking a realist approach. The MP who authored the parliamentary review calling for a major overhaul of French security believes that the inability to control terrorism in Paris is persistent and will last at least a generation. I wonder if this is a hint that Paris should focus on 2028?

He also made a very pointed claim that the terrorists have targeted police and military people since they represent the French state. This may be true, but seems exceptionally optimistic since it is easier to defend these people than the populace as whole, particularly in large crowds.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

aquamaroon said:


> ^^ That's basically my read as well. I doubt this will be a ongoing way of doing the Olympic vote, but it's not a bad idea given the unique circumstances. In this case you have two marquee cities that have rock solid plans and interest in the Games, one in the IOC's most important cultural market (Europe) and one in the IOC's most important commercial market (USA). And in this day and age of cities shunning the Olympics, especially in Western democracies, the worry at the IOC of turning off at least one desirable bid, and the temptation to have both, must be intense. It wouldn't be crazy if they do Paris/LA 2024 and 2028, and then with ten years of solid Olympic hosts lined up (along with a Calgary 2026 Winter Games) they spend the next decade getting their Olympic house in order and reorienting the Games to a more sustainable future.


A very strong analysis of what is going on and what should be done about it.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

CaliforniaJones said:


> If Paris loses again after being beaten for 1992 (by Barcelona), 2008 (Beijing) and 2012 (London) it would almost certainly withdraw humiliated and not take part again.
> 
> Los Angeles, with its heavyweight US media backers, would almost certainly take the same view.
> 
> ...



The vote in September probably will have a different tone than IOC votes in the past. The Olympics right now have an exhausted, weary tone about them. Rio and Sochi in particular but also London, etc, have knocked a lot of prestige out of them.

All the controversies and problems associated with those and other past games and the upcoming one in Tokyo - not to mention the idea of Beijing having hosted not just the summer 2008 games but now a future winter one - have taken a toll on the event.

Los Angeles back in 1977, when it won the 1984 games pretty much by default, was a moment when the IOC announcement probably didn't create the raucous joy in LA as seen in cities that have won Olympic games ever since then. 

If the vote in September is a two-fer, the reaction likely will be closer to 1977 than the years when, for example, Atlanta, Athens or Sydney won. A feeling of relief more than anything else if Paris gets 2024 but LA wins 2028. Or a sense of ambivalence but not necessarily dejection if Los Angeles gets 2024 but Paris wins 2028.








Two-fer or not, I'm fairly certain most IOC members will select Paris for 2024. A games held as long ago as 1924 almost necessitates - or requires - that compared with games occurring as recently as 1984 or 1996. So it comes down to whether IOC members have a voting procedure where they can also choose Los Angeles for 2028.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

I believe the video that profiles the Eiffel Tower - and linked a few posts back - is the one the Paris 2024 committee commissioned to represent the start of the third round in the bid process. But this other one is quite recent too:






[/URL]


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

pesto said:


> A very strong analysis of what is going on and what should be done about it.


Wow, thank you for the nice words pesto! (promise I won't let it get to my head :lol

Anyways here's something a little lighthearted for the evening. On the day the phase 3 documents were delivered LA 2024 celebrated by having an all night/morning dj dance party at the LA Coliseum, and today they came out with a video:






eta: oh hah, looks like californiadreams and I had the same thought at the same time! :lol: oh well, twice as nice :cheers:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Your timing, or my timing, is impeccable. I posted the LA 2024's most recent video just as you did. LOL.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

aquamaroon said:


> oh well, twice as nice


IMHO only, of course, the bid books produced by Los Angeles 2024 and also their videos in general, including their most recent one, do strike me as a bit better than the counterpart material produced by the folks across the Atlantic.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

^^ Yeah, I don't know about twice as nice, but I did prefer the LA video of the two from a filmmaking perspective at least. The footage was more exciting and drew you in more. But I did like the Paris video too. I feel like both videos played against typecast, at least the typecasting that has been put in place the past few weeks.

Here's what I got from the Paris video: "Paris 2024 is hip, cool and young! Look at all these millennials in this creative office space, #hashtaging and whatnot! We're gonna get the youth excited about the Olympics all over again. Paris: the choice of a new generation(tm)"
Here's what I got from the LA video: "LA is throwing a huge party for the whole world, and everyone is welcome to come on by! Black, white, brown; men, women; Christians, Muslims, Jews; they're all welcome to get their boogie on! Look at all these attractive young people of all colors and types dancing: LA is young, multicultural and the face of the world. LA: we are the world, we are the children(tm)"

So at least to me, the videos show the face that the two bids want to show the world. Paris, afraid that they'll be seen as old, fussy and out of touch with the youth, wants to show that they are cool and with it. LA, afraid of a President whose bellicose engagement with the rest of the world can seem xenophobic and adversarial, wants to show the world that L.A. is a multicultural melting pot, and everybody who comes will be welcome to party at the Games.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> IMHO only, of course, the bid books produced by Los Angeles 2024 and also their videos in general, including their most recent one, do strike me as a bit better than the counterpart material produced by the folks across the Atlantic.


Well, at this point the French are probably happy to shove anything out the door as long as it doesn’t have police batons, machetes or looting in it. :lol:

This is a human disaster in Paris and a PR disaster everywhere in the world.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Pesto and aquamaroon - and in light of so many people throughout the world wanting to fuss and fret about the politics in the US - the question I have is if I were to say I hope France keeps its current president (who no one talks about--why?) - or elects a successor to him who'll be very, very similar to Francois Hollande - does that mean I have good intentions for France or bad intentions for France?

Speaking of France or things being off - either presentation-wise, creative-wise or political-wise too - this moment in 2012 across the Channel from Paris really does ring the bell, literally and figuratively:








All that money wasted on fake green meadows, fake green hills, a clunky-looking big gold bell, and plenty of other what-not. But at least "Mr Bean," "James Bond" and Paul McCartney warbling "Hey Jude" (whose lyrics, which were totally unchanged for the occasion, really did make perfect sense for the ending of an Olympics opening) could have their shining moments.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> Pesto and aquamaroon - and in light of so many people throughout the world wanting to fuss and fret about the politics in the US - the question I have is if I were to say I hope France keeps its current president (who no one talks about--why?) - or elects a successor to him who'll be very, very similar to Francois Hollande - does that mean I have good intentions for France or bad intentions for France?


Sorry, I don't do politics unless it directly relates to the bid process (security, PR, political opposition or the like) or in response to very dubious comments by others. If we never say Hollande, Le Pen, Trump, Grillo or Renzi again it's OK with me.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

It would be interesting to see the reaction of the type of people who've produced most recent Olympic ceremonies - particularly the more artsy-eccentric ones, full of au-courant political messaging - to the hypothetical that a segment of the opening in 2024 or 2028 - if not Tokyo 2020 - could be based on this concept:








However, to fit the tastes of the type of people responsible for Rio 2016 or, in particular, London 2012, participants standing in line could be dressed up like characters from Cirque du Soleil. And the late-model vehicle - with the hood where the chopped-off leg lands - could instead be a 1996 pick-up truck.

Ironies - in both political and creative matters - are all over the map.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

I'm posting this here because so many followers of the Olympic movement, both in the US and abroad, have been making the politics in the US, particularly as it involves the last election, a major point of contention. I'm referring to those people who've been obsessing over American leadership - saying that the IOC and sports federations worldwide cannot possibly be anything but alarmed and unhappy about that - while saying virtually nothing about the leadership - certainly its current one - in France. 

Such an attitude is in marked contrast to those people who naively - and self-righteously - assumed that American leadership in 2009 pretty much guaranteed that Chicago 2016's bid not only would get past the first round, but that it would go on to be awarded the Olympic games themselves.




> *PARIS ON FIRE: Riots reach capital's centre TONIGHT - buildings set ablaze & cops attacked*
> 
> *WIDESPREAD suburban rioting spilled into central Paris tonight as hundreds went on the rampage over the alleged rape of a young black man by French police.*
> 
> ...


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Does anyone know californiadreams’ opinion on recent Olympic ceremonies? Why won't he tell us????? WE NEED TO KNOW THIS INFORMATION!


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> Does anyone know californiadreams’ opinion on recent Olympic ceremonies? Why won't he tell us????? WE NEED TO KNOW THIS INFORMATION!































I wonder if Rio 2016's planners favor France's current leadership? 

The game's producers likely at least believe all the problems in Paris right now can be traced to a lack of enough...money!


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> I'm posting this here because so many followers of the Olympic movement, both in the US and abroad, have been making the politics in the US, particularly as it involves the last election, a major point of contention. I'm referring to those people who've been obsessing over American leadership - saying that the IOC and sports federations worldwide cannot possibly be anything but alarmed and unhappy about that - while saying virtually nothing about the leadership - certainly its current one - in France.
> 
> Such an attitude is in marked contrast to those people who naively - and self-righteously - assumed that American leadership in 2009 pretty much guaranteed that Chicago 2016's bid not only would get past the first round, but that it would go on to be awarded the Olympic games themselves.


Just to clarify a bit, the riots had already spread on the north side of Paris, where the Stade de France is located and many Olympic events will take place including aquatics and volleyball. Some time back the Olympics officials had decided to use elevated passageways, secured from the street, to connect the stadium to nearby Olympic facilities.

But now they are within the Peripherique (city center) and very close to the Gare du Nord which is the principal train station for visitors from the UK, Benelux and the north of France. 

It’s getting a bit reminiscent of 2005 when the well-to-do in central Paris became concerned that the millions living in 3rd world slums surrounding the city would rise in rebellion and attack the city center. 

It's ironic that about a year ago on the 10th anniversary of the riots there was a spate of articles and analyses indicating that conditions had only gotten worse since 2005 and the whole area was a tinder box.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Exposition Park, the "grand 'ol Lady" (Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum), and construction of Banc Of California Stadium.

USC

Hollywood sign, the Griffith Observatory peeking in the background.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

...


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Kenni said:


> Exposition Park, the "grand 'ol Lady" (Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum), and construction of Banc Of California Stadium.
> 
> USC
> 
> Hollywood sign, the Griffith Observatory peeking in the background.


And a couple of ranges of the San Gabriel's beyond that. Quite a view, but I hear that the LAFC excavation may get filled with rain on Friday. :lol:


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

^^ Great! So they DID decide to move the aquatics center back to LAFC's stadium!

...:lol:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

That photograph of the Coliseum shows one reason why I don't have the greatest confidence in the decisions made for it by USC. The large scoreboard installed on the western side a few years ago, if it had been done right would have mimicked the curve of the stadium and the sign's base would be flush with the top of the rim.

The writer of this piece, unless he's a time traveler and knows something we mere mortals don't, obviously isn't following the bidding process very closely or at all:



> *We have already started preparing for the next two Olympics : Indian Racewalking coach Artsybashev*
> 
> SportsCafe Desk
> Yesterday at 8:32 PM
> ...


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)




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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

And then there were two?

*Budapest 2024 Referendum Likely After Collection of 266,151 Signatures*
http://gamesbids.com/eng/featured/b...likely-after-collection-of-266151-signatures/


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## CaliforniaJones (Apr 9, 2009)

It's a very big warning for Budapest bid.

Budapest mayor flags possible withdrawal of 2024 Olympic bid
http://www.thestar.com.my/sport/oth...lags-possible-withdrawal-of-2024-olympic-bid/


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> That photograph of the Coliseum shows one reason why I don't have the greatest confidence in the decisions made for it by USC. The large scoreboard installed on the western side a few years ago, if it had been done right would have mimicked the curve of the stadium and the sign's base would be flush with the top of the rim.
> 
> The writer of this piece, unless he's a time traveler and knows something we mere mortals don't, obviously isn't following the bidding process very closely or at all:


Was SC managing the Coliseum when the scoreboard went in? The reason they wanted to take over management was that they had no input into capital or other long-term decisions. Those were made by a Commission probably most famous for its susceptibility to bribery.

Otherwise, it's hard to speculate on decisions made unless we have access to the technical as well as budgetary details.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

CaliforniaJones said:


> It's a very big warning for Budapest bid.
> 
> Budapest mayor flags possible withdrawal of 2024 Olympic bid
> http://www.thestar.com.my/sport/oth...lags-possible-withdrawal-of-2024-olympic-bid/


Hmmm. The IOC might want to get these votes done BEFORE narrowing the field so dramatically. The old days of a few aristocrats and politicos treating the public treasury as their personal kitty seem to be ending.

Might be time for a vote in Paris and LA rather than in, say, 2019? At the least, the IOC needs to get some objective poll results from professional polling services or risk an ugly situation for years.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

http://www.thelocal.fr/20170217/english-slogan-for-paris-2024-olympics-sounds-like-a-pizza-ad

You can’t please everybody. Especially these guys.

I have had to deal with these people for decades since hundreds of words, including “computer” and “software” were words forbidden for use in France as tending to corrupt the French language. So we had to use “ordinateur” and “logiciel” in publications. Of course, the actual French techies say “computer” and “software”.

Every new tech word adopted in France just blows these guys' minds even when all of Europe is using them.


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## Nacre (May 9, 2016)

pesto said:


> I have had to deal with these people for decades since hundreds of words, including “computer” and “software” were words forbidden for use in France as tending to corrupt the French language. So we had to use “ordinateur” and “logiciel” in publications. Of course, the actual French techies say “computer” and “software”.


It is not really a problem for me. "Ordinateur" is a very easy word to learn compared to the difficulty of learning all of the conjugations of verbs, the genders of nouns, etc.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Nacre said:


> It is not really a problem for me. "Ordinateur" is a very easy word to learn compared to the difficulty of learning all of the conjugations of verbs, the genders of nouns, etc.


Not sure I get your point. You think the Olympic committee was wrong and they should have said "venez parteger" instead in the ads because it is easy to learn? And it's up to the government to dictate usage to keep it simple?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

http://www.france24.com/en/20170217...24-olympic-bid-english-language-slogan-pizza-

A bit more on this: lawyers have filed a suit blocking the Olympic Committee's use of an English slogan as being in violation of French law. 

Apparently the purpose of the law and the Academy is to make sure that the French language is not corrupted by outside influences but kept pure to its ancient roots (cleansed of "impurities"). In a diverse kind of way, of course. :lol:


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

...


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

...


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## Pierre de Coubertin (Sep 25, 2016)

CaliforniaJones said:


> It's a very big warning for Budapest bid.
> 
> Budapest mayor flags possible withdrawal of 2024 Olympic bid
> http://www.thestar.com.my/sport/oth...lags-possible-withdrawal-of-2024-olympic-bid/


No doubt it will be a 2 horses race between Paris versus LA. And the possible withdrawal of Budapest will be a big advantage for Paris. Except european comitees, the rest of the world will vote for Paris to have the big possibility for 2028.


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