# BEIJING | Public Transport



## ILoveChina

*Which should be the colour of Beijing's Bus*

you should choose one
*1*








*2*








*3*








*4*








*5*








*6*








*7*








*8*








*9*








*10*








*11*


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## hyacinthus

#1. Red, Black and white


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## Principes

1st for sure.


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## hoogbouw010

Why not the same colouring as currently: green/yellow with red striping?


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## superchan7

All look good. Finally, China's making buses with low-profile tyres!


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## carry_a_torch

I think they are ugly


hoogbouw010 said:


> Why not the same colouring as currently: green/yellow with red striping?


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## raymond_tung88

Red 4 sure.


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## cladiv

first one


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## Vertigo

The red one for me too...!


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## samsonyuen

Why not red and yellow like its flag? I really don't like the last four. They look like coaches. They even have curtains! How tacky...


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## Bitxofo

Yellow, like oriental people!


Just joking...
:wink2:


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## earthJoker

#8 for me


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## MVL318

The second one is very beautiful :cheers:


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## demanjo

3 or 4, reminds me of chinese most for some reason.


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## Falubaz

#4 but the #1 and 2 are also 'not bad'


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## zergcerebrates

2,4 and 6 are nice.


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## Hybrid 87

#1


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## beta29

#1 of course and maybe #5


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## Zaqattaq

Keep the current


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## hkskyline

*Beijing Delays Airport Link*

*Beijing delays start of construction work for airport rail link - report*
21 June 2005

BEIJING (AFX) - Beijing has delayed the start of initial construction work on a five bln yuan rail link between its airport and the city center, the Financial Times reported.

The link is one of the most high-profile projects planned as part of the Chinese capital's preparations to host the 2008 Olympic Games.

The newspaper, citing municipal officials, said the company responsible for the 27km line had intended to begin work at its terminus in Beijing's Dongzhimen area on June 1, but could not because China's powerful National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC) had yet to approve the project.

The delay highlights the uncertainty that continues to cloud the airport link just three years before it is scheduled to open, the paper said.

The paper said project planners had decided to start construction in spite of the lack of any formal decision about what kind of rail system it will use, a situation industry executives said would be highly unusual in other countries.

Beijing was originally expected to choose in early 2004 between a conventional subway system, a light railway or magnetic levitation trains powered by linear motor.

More than a year later, international companies interested in supplying the rail systems are still waiting for news.

However, a city official said Beijing Dongzhimen Airport Express Rail, the company set up by the city in July 2001 to build and operate the line, planned to use wheeled subway trains with a linear propulsion system similar to that adopted by the southern city of Guangzhou.

The paper said officials said that following the start of initial construction at Dongzhimen the site of a planned new Beijing city transport hub work along the airport line route was scheduled to start in September.

(1 usd = 8.3 yuan)


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## samsonyuen

So they haven't announced (officially) which type of rail system they're using yet? When would it open, the day before the games? Any plans released about how many stations?


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## raymond_tung88

How many airports in China are linked to their respective city centres?

There's Shanghai, Hong Kong....


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## FM 2258

raymond_tung88 said:


> How many airports in China are linked to their respective city centres?
> 
> There's Shanghai, Hong Kong....


I don't know but I think every city should have a rail link from at least downtown to the airport with adaquate parking facilites at the train station. I would love to drive 5 miles, park my car and take a train to the airport instead of having to drive all the way to the airport.


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## hkskyline

*Pilot Fuel Cell-Powered Buses Head for Beijing*

*Pilot fuel cell-powered buses head for Beijing *

BEIJING, July 28 (Reuters) - Three fuel-cell powered buses will be plying some of Beijing's busiest streets by the end of the year as part of a pilot project to help clean up the capital's smoggy skies for the 2008 Olympics, their manufacturer said.

The DaimlerChrysler vehicles will arrive in China in September, where they will join the Beijing Public Transport Corporation's 17,000-strong bus fleet.

"(They) will enter regular service on a 19-km long route...which is extremely busy and passes the world-famous Summer Palace as well as the site for the next Olympic Games," the firm said in a statement on its website.

Fuel-cell engines run on hydrogen and emit only water vapour.

The project, which will last until October 2007, will test the practicality of the technology on Beijing's sometimes chaotic roads and the response from the city's residents.

The hydrogen will be supplied by oil major BP, DaimlerChrysler said. 

Other projects mooted to help the city clear away the grey haze that often hangs over it range from an exhaust-linked car tax to rooftop lawns.

China's capital said it had just managed to reach its goal of 227 days with clean air in 2004 after the target seemed all but unattainable last October. Sceptics have raised questions about the standards used to make the claim.


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## Swede

We've had a bus like that running in Sthlm for a year or two now. The drivers like it, haven't had any problems with it I know of. Oficially the test period is over, but they're still running the bus...


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## demanjo

The stupid thing is, the hydrogen is most likely going to come from Oil... so therefore there is no environmental gain. Its the same idea of an electric car - sure there are no emissions at the point of the electric car, but the coal burnt to make the electricity is still adding to emissions. 

It is a step forward tho i suppose.


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## Swede

The hydrogen might very well come from oil today, but it isn't diffcult to extraxt from water either. So when oil prices go up the main source will be water...
/coal burnt for electricity? not up here. Nuclear+Hydro provides the vast majority. Also with the power production more centralized it's easier to do it cleanly.


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## koyer




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## koyer




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## koyer




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## Falubaz

:O:O:O:O
bejing is building a wonderfull metro!!!!!
i think it'll be one of the greatest metro systems in few years.
i would be thankful if you post more pics.


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## koyer

some trains,the first subway built in Beijing is in 1969.


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## Lady L

Nice


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## zergcerebrates

Its nice. Big improvement.


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## DoN

which part is "subway"?


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## Arpels

very nice :yes:


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## Nick

Huh???

I didnt see anything like that when I rode the Beijing Subway?

You are only showing the new line in those shots


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## samsonyuen

Neat trains. Is that an add for a hamburger from KFC in the second picture??? What do the original lines look like?


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## xeror

DoN said:


> which part is "subway"?


Most of the photos show only the wholly elevated line 13. And lines 1 & 2 are underground which are not shown in the photos.


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## Gandhi

bacanisimo...una gran muestra de la ingenieria y el desarrollo chino


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## mopc

It´s a beauty, how many more stations will be open for the 2008 Olympics??


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## hkth

mopc said:


> It´s a beauty, how many more stations will be open for the 2008 Olympics??


You may see the map from Subway's Future. :|


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## mopc

Thanks but what´s with the eye rolling?


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## hkskyline

*Beijing's Buses : Experimental Brakes to Reduce Pollution*

*Trial buses aim to cut pollution*

Beijing is fitting out 50 of its buses with experimental braking systems that it hopes could cut fuel use by up to 30 percent and help clear its smoggy skies, the China Daily reported.

Wednesday, January 04, 2006
Reuters

Beijing is fitting out 50 of its buses with experimental braking systems that it hopes could cut fuel use by up to 30 percent and help clear its smoggy skies, the China Daily reported.

The 50 buses in the trial will be fitted with hydraulic hybrid vehicle technology, which absorbs energy released as a vehicle brakes and allows it to be released when they restart or speed up, the paper said Tuesday.

It can cut fuel consumption by over 30 percent, and emissions by 20-70 percent, it quoted Hu Shenglong, vice president of the manufacturer, Chargeboard Electric Vehicle, as saying.

The test run will last one to two years, but if it is successful Beijing could add the technology to its whole fleet of 18,000 buses, the article quoted a municipal official as saying.

The move is just one of a series of strategies Beijing is sampling or considering to help clear its smog-laden skies before the 2008 Olympics.

It has a trial fuel cell bus plying its roads, and some of its fleet is powered by cleaner gas.

It is also planning to build special networks of high-speed buses in exclusive lanes, to make the vehicles run more efficiently and tempt travelers on to public transport.

The skies over the nation's capital were blue for 234 days last year, the municipal environmental protection center said last week.

But the city had slipped out of a list of the 10 best Chinese cities to live in, China Daily said, citing heavy pollution as one of the problems.


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## invincible

> hydraulic hybrid vehicle technology


Nice buzzword. The common term is regenerative braking.

According to Wikipedia the hydraulic braking technology is developed by an Australian company.


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## odegaard

> It can cut fuel consumption by over 30 percent


That sounds suspiciously optimistic. 30%???

I think a more accurate statement would be "regenerative braking is 30% efficient". That's totally different then reducing fuel consumption by 30%.


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## hkskyline

Some more information about the hydraulic hybrid technology :
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/technology/#hydraulic

Scania's hybrid fuel cell bus, for example, uses 60% less energy compared to a diesel engine bus. The decrease comes from a combination of a high-efficiency propulsion system, regenerative braking, and the fuel cell system.


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## hkth

*Beijing Airport will have its own railway!*

News from Xinhua Agency:
Beijing to build airport-downtown metro


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## FM 2258

This is great news. I think rail links to airports in large cities are essential. My experience with rail links to the airports at Chicago O'Hare and New York JFK were very pleasant. I wish my current home town of Austin, TX would build rail links to the airport. I live just outside the city and it takes me 40 minutes to get to the airport without traffic.


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## samsonyuen

What? No Maglev? I can't believe it can take up to two hours in traffic!


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## raymond_tung88

Any map of the new rail line and trains? 

I can't believe they're building a subway instead of a rail road...


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## Zaqattaq

Only $2.50? It can cost $100 to get from airport to centre city in some places


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## mr_storms

yep, $2.50 is quite cheap


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## Kai Tak

I thought this choo choo was always part of the plan for getting Beijing ready for the Olympics. 

Arup, who has a big hand in the new terminal at Capital Airport, is also helping design a downtown transport hub, which I'm assuming will be the terminus of the airport express and a link to major subway and bus routes:

http://www.arup.com/eastasia/project.cfm?pageid=2259


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## hkth

samsonyuen said:


> What? No Maglev? I can't believe it can take up to two hours in traffic!


Is it worth to build a maglev for just 27km away from downtown Beijing? Don't forget the lessons that had been paid from the Shanghai maglev! A metro is simply enough for this! :runaway:


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## gakei

zaqattaq said:


> Only $2.50? It can cost $100 to get from airport to centre city in some places


Depends the cost of using other transportation ... I took a taxi from Beijing Airport to Wangfujin (City Centre) which costed RMB68. It is around 3 times of the proposed fare of the metro.

For HK, the Airport Railway fare is HK$100, and the taxi needs HK$300, also 3 times.

I think RMB20 is reasonable. If it is too expensive, people will simply continue choosing taxi, as it's more convenience.


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## kostya

Great News! kay: ! And it seems to be cheap enough. Comparing to other cities...


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## gakei

*[Photos] Beijing Bus Rapid Transit ("BRT")*





































[ *MORE* ... ]


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## hkskyline

I thought they were testing the Mercedes Citaros for the BRT!


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## Bertez

Very nice.....can you show the route it travels on??


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## gakei

Source: http://www.go2map.com/traffic/traffic_news/fagui/10376.shtml


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## Bertez

^^Thanks


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## ode of bund

What you see is the South Central Axis BRT which starts at the Front Gate south of Tian'an'men Square, and runs along the South Central Axis Road to Third Ring Road. The second BRT line is going to utilize trolley-bus.


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## UD2

ode of bund said:


> What you see is the South Central Axis BRT which starts at the Front Gate south of Tian'an'men Square, and runs along the South Central Axis Road to Third Ring Road. The second BRT line is going to utilize trolley-bus.


ya mean the 4th ring road?


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## tata

great I love those BRTs! Thanks for sharing.


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## HD

how comes the doors of some of the buses are on the wrong side? china is driving right, not left...


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## davidwei01

HD said:


> how comes the doors of some of the buses are on the wrong side? china is driving right, not left...


BRT is different from normal buses and more like subways in terms of operation, which is, almost all the stations are on the left side.


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## didu

davidwei01 said:


> BRT is different from normal buses and more like subways in terms of operation, which is, almost all the stations are on the left side.


How are they different? Do they have their own lanes? Why are they called
"rapid", what makes them fast?


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## Coccodrillo

Because the line has central platforms, with buses running on the right side. Like in Bogotà.

http://www.gakei.com/bjg/brt/brts02.jpg

But at the left of this photo there is a bus with doors on the right side - or on the left side, but parked in the opposiete direction. Someone can explain it?


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## gakei

Coccodrillo said:


> Because the line has central platforms, with buses running on the right side. Like in Bogotà.
> 
> http://www.gakei.com/bjg/brt/brts02.jpg
> 
> But at the left of this photo there is a bus with doors on the right side - or on the left side, but parked in the opposiete direction. Someone can explain it?


Because there are not enough "left-door" buses for this line (route), then some other "standard" normal buses are used as supplements instead ...


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## davidwei01

didu said:


> How are they different? Do they have their own lanes? Why are they called
> "rapid", what makes them fast?


right, they have their own exclusive lanes; tickets are sold on the platform and buses have low floor (fast boarding), they are much longer than normal buses (hold 200-300 passengers), they have priorities at intersections. All of these features make BRT more like a subway train, with a speed at 20km/hours.


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## HD

ah, now I understand - interesting system. surely, the fares for these buses are higher than for regular ones, aren't they?


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## davidwei01

*more Beijing BRT pictures*


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## gakei

HD said:


> ah, now I understand - interesting system. surely, the fares for these buses are higher than for regular ones, aren't they?


It seems the same in Beijing - RMB 2.


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## goravens

Nice system! For the central platforms, how do people get out of and into the station? Are there tunnels underneath the road? or do they have to walk across the BRT route and the main road?


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## ode of bund

UD2 said:


> ya mean the 4th ring road?


actually the 5th Ring Road


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## ode of bund

goravens said:


> Nice system! For the central platforms, how do people get out of and into the station? Are there tunnels underneath the road? or do they have to walk across the BRT route and the main road?


Each station has escalators to underground pedestrian tunnel which extends to both sides of the street.


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## hzkiller

-------------------------
this ia hangzhou brt


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## hzkiller




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## hzkiller

MoRE HANGZHOU BTR


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## hzkiller




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## UD2

what Beijing desperately need is a uniformed colour for all their busses

it's like a zoo in there. Each model has its own livery.


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## davidwei01

right. but I like the Beijing's new taxi color and design.


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## bayviews

Great Pictures of Beijing BRT! An excellent presentation was done re: China's BRT at the UN Green Cities Confereance last summer in San Francisco! Beijing's buses are great. Similar models as used on Oakland CA BRT.


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## zergcerebrates

*New Beijing Buses*

I don't know if this was posted before but found this on some forum and would like to share it with you people, I hope davidwei and gakei.com doesn't mind me sharing.


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## GO_Rider

They look very nice! I don't recall seeing them when I was there last year so this must be quite new. Which manufacturer built those buses?


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## Sen

IVECO


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## bayviews

Beijing's BRT & buses are quite similar to those in LA.


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## zergcerebrates

Iveco is a Spanish/Italian Company right?


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## jeicow

Have almost the same identical buses running on a BRT bus just north of TO.


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## bayviews

Reflects the globalization of the transit industry. Not too long ago, North America, Latin America, Britain, Western Europe, The Soviet bloc, Middle East, Japan, Korea, China, etc. all had very distinctive types of transit vehicles. Now Beijing basically has the same buses as LA & Toronto.


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## Pindakaas

The buses look nice


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## ode of bund

I'll post some new trolley-buses of Beijing later.


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## cladiv

zergcerebrates said:


> Iveco is a Spanish/Italian Company right?


No Its just italian


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## staff

I've ridden these buses a couple of times in Beijing, and they are indeed nice.


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## hkth

*Hydrogen Buses in Beijing!*

Xinhua news, with the video from the China Central Television Channel 9:
Hydrogen-powered buses in Beijing


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## hkth

*New Beijing Airport metro kicks off*

Xinhua news:
Beijing kicks off building subway connecting downtown with airport


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## zergcerebrates

I hope its some special trains and not those subway types


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## zergling

*China Largest Subway by 2020*

Beijing, Nov 20 The Chinese capital could have the largest subway of the world by 2020, to snatch from the London tube that position, local press reported on Monday.

According to a plan formulated by municipal authorities, the subway transport network could have 19 lines covering 561 km to alleviate the current traffic jams.

The Beijing News daily states the project would be approved by the city's Development and Reform Commission to endorse the necessary funds to implement it.

In addition to the four existing lines, another four are being built for the Beijing 2008 Olympic Games, three within city limits and one to join the international airport.

With this project, the Chinese capital will have 15 urban lines and another four for the most distant suburbs.

Zhao Hui, one of the participants in the project, said the 19-subway network plan is a long-term vision which could be subject to future modifications.


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## zergling

oops, seems to be posted already, can mod delete this?


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## Giorgio

Great. 
Lol at cal_t.


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## Qatar Son 333

great


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## hkskyline

*Beijing to Cancel Half Century-Old Monthly Bus Pass*

*Beijing to cancel half century-old monthly bus pass next year *

BEIJING, Dec. 8 (Xinhua) -- The monthly bus pass, which Beijing commuters have used for 56 years to ride around the city for pennies will no longer be available after Jan. 1, said sources from the municipal communication committee. 

A monthly bus pass costs only 45 yuan (5.8 U.S. dollars) for adults and 20 yuan (2.6 U.S. dollars) for students and can be used 146 times per month. 

Statistics show passengers on average used their bus passes 86 times a month costing them only 0.52 yuan (six U.S. cents) a ride. 

The move aims to improve the city's bus service and divert more passengers to the buses with air conditioners, which are less crowded but don't accept monthly passes. 

To keep the cost of a bus trip down, the city is expected to offer a 60 percent discount for people using electronic bus cards which passengers swipe each time they board a bus deducting the cost of each trip, according to the committee. With the discount a bus ride will still cost only about five U.S. cents a trip. 

The effort will also help attract more passengers to travel by bus rather than private cars and taxies, hoping to ease traffic congestion in Beijing, said Qi Jia, director of Charges Management Department of the Municipal Development and Reform Commission. 

A ride on Beijing's inner city subways costs 3 yuan (26 U.S. cents).


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## phubben

LUV it!


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## oz.fil

lol sounds great about the colour schemes... so jealous i dont live in beijing!


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## hkskyline

*Free parking lots to be built near bus, subway stations in Beijing *

BEIJING, Dec. 19 (Xinhua) -- Free parking lots will be built near subway and bus stops in Beijing to encourage drivers to use public transport in downtown Beijing, an official said Monday. 

Twenty-six free or low-cost large-scale parking lots are included in the plan to reduce traffic jams in downtown Beijing, said Zhou Nansen, a member of the Beijing Municipal Commission of Urban Planning. 

The first two, located near some subway stations in Beijing, will each cover about 20 acres, Zhou said. 

Parking fees will be much lower than the usual downtown rate of two yuan an hour (0.25 US dollars), Zhou said. 

To fight traffic jams, Beijing will take more measures to encourage people to use public transport. 

*The old monthly bus passes on Beijing's 447 bus lines will be phased out in favor of new digital passes which will entitle commuters to a 60 percent discount starting Jan. 1, 2007, said Li Jianguo, deputy director of the Beijing Municipal Commission of Communication. 
*
Bus routes will be redesigned. Over 110 duplicate routes will be eliminated and 1,500 buses will be transferred to new routes stretching to 300 communities, Li said. 

Beijing invested 11.67 billion yuan (1.48 billion US dollars) in public transport service construction this year, according to Beijing Municipal Commission of Communication.


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## hkskyline

*Trial runs on subway for Beijing Olympics to start in June *
29 April 2007

BEIJING (AP) - Trial runs on a subway line that will serve the Beijing Summer Olympics start at the end of June, state media reported Sunday. 

Construction of the No. 5 line, which cuts through the heart of the city, is finished with workers building the last station, Ding Shukui, deputy manager of the city's rail traffic company, was quoted as saying by Xinhua News Agency. 

"Trial operations begin on June 30," Ding said. 

The 27.6-kilometer (17.1-mile) north-south line runs through the eastern part of the downtown area. Construction began in late 2002 and cost 12 billion yuan (US$1.55 billion; euro1.14 billion), Xinhua said. 

The subway cars will also be equipped with a wireless communication network so live broadcasts of the Olympics can be shown on televisions in each car. 

Beijing has 95 kilometers (56 miles) of mass transit rail lines but by the Olympics, which start in August 2008, there will be nine lines totaling 200 kilometers (124 miles), Xinhua said, including the 28.1-kilometer (17.5-mile) airport extension from downtown to the new Beijing Capital International Airport which opens June 30 next year.


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## zergcerebrates

> I think you're the one that is confused here


Lol.... funny. . . by his second response you should know he was just foolin around. :lol:


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## mrmoopt

I hope you do realise text based communication is not the ideal medium for conveying sarcasm.

Can we get back on topic?


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## spindoctor

nice colour


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## Heilig

Dee Hinnov said:


> I was being *SARCASTIC*.
> 
> A concept you Aussies clearly don't understand...:weirdo:
> 
> *In other words: I _know_ this line will be 4+ km long (just by the fact that a metro line of 4000 km would mean Beijing is either a *huge* city or the planners got their facts all wrong), and that the 'confusion' here arises because of the mix-up of commas and dots.


lol :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## hkskyline

*Beijing unveils new subway as cars hit 3 million mark *

BEIJING, May 25 (Reuters Life!) - Beijing unveiled a new state of the art subway line Friday which it hopes will help persuade the city's car owners to leave their vehicles at home and ease congestion before the 2008 Olympics. 

New vehicles are hitting the roads of Beijing at a rate of more than 1,000 a day and the 3 million mark will be reached on Saturday, according to the city's transport commission. 

"Tomorrow we'll have Beijing's 3 millionth vehicle on the road," Zhou Zhengyu, deputy director of the commission, said. 

"In a time when the city is becoming more and more crowded, to develop public transportation is an important way of easing Beijing's traffic congestion." 

The new 12.7 billion yuan ($1.66 billion) subway line will open to the public on Sept. 20 and run for 27 km (17 miles) along a north-south axis, passing about a mile east of Tiananmen Square. 

The carriages are a refreshing contrast to the old rolling stock running on Beijing's four existing lines, with good lighting, air conditioning and plasma screens to entertain the passengers. 

Three additional lines scheduled to open before next August's Olympics, including an express line to the new airport and a special branch line to the Olympic Green, will increase the current 114 km of track to 200 km. 

After the Games, further investment, which is currently running at about 30 billion yuan ($3.92 billion) a year on transport infrastructure, will see 561 km of track on the network by 2015. 

The roads of the Chinese capital are regularly snarled up with traffic jams, reflecting the rapid growth of car ownership by the city's burgeoning middle class. 

For many years the bicycle was king in Beijing and by 1978 there were still only 77,000 cars. China's opening up to the outside world changed that and the 1 million mark was reached in 1997 and 2003 saw the total pass 2 million.


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## iampuking

What a pretentious idea. Give it a few years and you won't be able to see these "musical pieces" in the tunnel because it will be inch thick in dust. Seems like a case of style of substance to me.


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## Alargule

cal_t said:


> I hope you do realise text based communication is not the ideal medium for conveying sarcasm.
> 
> Can we get back on topic?


Yes we can. Though I'm amazed to see this has been brought back to life after almost half a year...:nuts:


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## Andrew

Are there any photos from this new line yet?


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## UD2

*Beijing Subway Line 5 Starts Opertional Testing*

Subway line 5 is a north-south line that intersects with line 13, line 2 and line one. It's planned first day of opertions is in October of this year. Operational Testing starts today. System powerup is planned at the end of September.


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## gaoanyu

It's good to know, thanks!


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## Minato ku

It is a light metro ?
I ask that because the train look narrow. :yes:


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## gakei

mini-sized bangkok airport :O


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## Manila-X

Looks like it's going to be a light metro


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## Bitxofo

Great news. Thanks!
:bowtie:


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## hkskyline

*Beijing Subway's Beggar & Hawker Problems*

*Beijing to clear 'uncivilised' elements from subway stations *

BEIJING, July 6, 2007 (AFP) - Beijing plans to start clearing beggars and other "uncivilised" elements from major city subway stations next week as it continues sprucing up for next year's Olympics, state media reported on Friday. 

Enforcement teams will begin patrolling four key lines on Monday to chase out the beggars, peddlers and performers who flock to subway stations during the summer to escape the city heat, the Beijing News said. 

"This behaviour is disturbing normal order and impacting the passenger situation and subway environment," the paper quoted an unnammed official with the Beijing Mass Transit Railway Operation Corporation as saying. 

Any found to have broken any laws or regulations will be turned over to authorities, it said. 

Virtually unknown in China 20 years ago, beggars, the homeless, street musicians and peddlers hawking everything from maps to fake dvds are becoming much more common across the capital. 

The phenomenon is partly due to the the economic reforms that have created a huge wealth gap and a loosening of social controls that have allowed an influx of migrants from rural areas. 

The beggars, hawkers and the homeless often take to protected areas such as subway stations during Beijing's cold winters and humid summers. 

Beijing will host the Olympics next year in August, one of the hottest month of the year. 

Other press reports said in March that Beijing planned to round up undesirables and ship them out of the city as part of Olympic clean-up efforts. 

It would expand holding centres for beggars, hawkers, operators of illegal taxis and other lawless elements, who would then be shipped back to their home provinces, in an operation set to begin sometime this year, the reports said.


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## iampuking

Do they think people are stupid? Everyone knows China has a dubious human rights record, shipping homeless people away (who surprisingly enough exist in most cities!) isn't going to make a bit of a difference. And street musicians give subway stations a much better atmosphere if you ask me.


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## hkskyline

Plenty of other cities in the West have done similar things prior to major international events. Didn't the Americans do that for Atlanta?


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## iampuking

I don't know, you tell me.


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## YelloPerilo

iampuking said:


> Do they think people are stupid? Everyone knows China has a dubious human rights record, shipping homeless people away (who surprisingly enough exist in most cities!) isn't going to make a bit of a difference. And street musicians give subway stations a much better atmosphere if you ask me.


Wow, now that has become a human right issue just because it happens in China. hno:


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## hkskyline

iampuking said:


> I don't know, you tell me.


Follow the news. It's good for you.

*Homeless Games *
28 March 2001

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) - The treatment of homeless people during the Olympics has brought controversy to the games in Atlanta and Sydney, but police and Olympic organizers in Salt Lake City say they plan no widespread roundup of the indigent during the 2002 Winter Games. 

"Do we have any special plan to move anybody? No," said Scott Folsom, assistant Salt Lake City police chief and Olympic coordinator for the department. 

When the question of dealing with homeless people has come up at Olympic planning sessions, the answer has been: "Maintain the status quo," Folsom said. 

But Linda Hilton, a community activist, is concerned that the status quo might land a lot of the homeless in jail. 

"Let me just say this. They say it's the status quo, yet they say they're not going to be rounding people up," Hilton said. 

On the streets of Salt Lake City today, the status quo for a homeless person often involves citations for minor infractions, illegal camping, loitering, littering and the like, Hilton said. She is chairwoman of the Humanitarian Services Committee, a group that works with the Salt Lake Organizing Committee on issues affecting the needy during the games. 

Folsom points out that being homeless is not illegal in the city. 

"Vagrancy is not against the law. Homeless people will be arrested only if they commit something that is a crime," Folsom said, citing aggressive panhandling and theft as examples. 

Petty charges can mount up for a person living on the streets, and without the cash to pay the fines, courts will often issue a warrant for the person's arrest, Hilton said. 

*Hilton says she will ask police to declare a temporary moratorium on serving these warrants during the games, in order to avoid a scene like the one during the Atlanta Olympics in 1996. 

There, about 10,000 homeless men were arrested in the year leading up to the games, according to Anita Beatty, executive director of the Atlanta Task Force for the Homeless. Lawsuits followed. 
*
"I'm not saying that we're going to be Atlanta, but we just look at what's happened everywhere along," Hilton said. 

At the 2000 Olympics in Sydney, organizers drafted a plan designed to improve the way homeless people are treated during the games. 

Sydney officials said people would not be harassed or relocated unless there was a security threat or a disturbance, but others acknowledged that compliance with the plan was difficult to monitor. 

Homelessness is a bigger issue in Sydney, where social service workers estimate that 15,000 people stay in the shelters of New South Wales, and about 1,500 people each night sleep on Sydney's streets. 

One estimate puts the Salt Lake City homeless population at 3,000, Hilton said. 

Hilton thinks the city's homeless shelters do a pretty good job with the resources they have, but shelters are usually full. Under normal circumstances, overflow from the shelters often will be accommodated at inexpensive hotels, she said. But during the Olympics, these rooms likely will be full.


----------



## gladisimo

^^ there are people who just try to twist everything and somehow turn it into something it's not. Bush is the master of it 

People often twist and bend news to suit their own agendas....


----------



## zergcerebrates

iampuking said:


> Do they think people are stupid? Everyone knows China has a dubious human rights record, shipping homeless people away (who surprisingly enough exist in most cities!) isn't going to make a bit of a difference. And street musicians give subway stations a much better atmosphere if you ask me.


What does moving homeless away have anything to do with China's human rights records? Homeless ruins the city's image moving them because of a huge event is nothing wrong.


----------



## iampuking

You're missing the point entirely. What i'm saying is that by getting rid of homeless people isn't going to make foreigners think China is some wonderful prosperous communist country because there are no beggars. A bit like the rumours of North Korea only using their modern subway cars when tourists visit the country, or the fools who tried to convince people in the sixties that commie blocks were a way to create a new sense of community. I hate all this olympics showcasing bollox where countries try and pretend that their city is better than it really is.

And let's not forget the ridiculous patronising attitude they seem to have, the authorities seem to talk about homeless people as if they were poultry for christ sakes.


----------



## superchan7

Happens all the time in California. My friends from Irvine say they always hear of homeless shipped out to Los Angeles.


----------



## hkskyline

iampuking said:


> You're missing the point entirely. What i'm saying is that by getting rid of homeless people isn't going to make foreigners think China is some wonderful prosperous communist country because there are no beggars. A bit like the rumours of North Korea only using their modern subway cars when tourists visit the country, or the fools who tried to convince people in the sixties that commie blocks were a way to create a new sense of community. I hate all this olympics showcasing bollox where countries try and pretend that their city is better than it really is.
> 
> And let's not forget the ridiculous patronising attitude they seem to have, the authorities seem to talk about homeless people as if they were poultry for christ sakes.


It is not necessarily an image issue that you claim is the point of this exercise. There may be more practical reasons why this is happening, namely the crowds that are expected to flood the subway lines during the Games. Hawkers and beggars pose a safety risk especially when Beijing will be flooded with tourists. The article mentioned :

_"This behaviour is disturbing normal order and impacting the passenger situation and subway environment," the paper quoted an unnammed official with the Beijing Mass Transit Railway Operation Corporation as saying. _

Many of these beggars are low-skilled peasants who migrated from the countryside into the city. Jobless and penniless, they stay on the streets. In the long-run, they're better off going home than to make the cities worse off. Since they're not willing to go home on their own will, what other way is there to do but to round them up?


----------



## Trances

Nothing wrong with this. They clog up the overcrowed underground system.
People should not be using this story just to rag on china. Homless people are problem all over the world. In a denese city like Beijing people want to get on with the business of running the city and sadly like most if not all places in world the homeless rate at the bottom.


----------



## big-dog

*Beijing Subway Line 5*

Beijing Subway Line 5 is close to completion, will open on Sep 30 2007.

The total length is 27.6km, max speed 80km.


----------



## sequoia

pretty neat.


----------



## erussell

Great pics. Do you know when Line 5 will open?


----------



## big-dog

erussell said:


> Great pics. Do you know when Line 5 will open?


It'll open on Sep 30. Here some more photos:

Yonghegong Station









Yonghegong Station









Huixin Xijie Station, 









6 LCDs installed at each station









Tial run


----------



## erussell

big-dog said:


> It'll open on Sep 30. Here some more photos:


I'm looking forward to it, are they planning any celebrations?


----------



## hkth

Great news for the first metro line in Beijing to have platform screen doors! kay:


----------



## big-dog

*more Line 5 photos*

some elevated stations



















Subway bridge









Tiantongyuan Station


----------



## big-dog

Beiyuan Station




































Last station - Taipingzhuang Station


----------



## big-dog

erussell said:


> I'm looking forward to it, are they planning any celebrations?


Maybe not because I haven't received invitation :lol: 
no big celebration since many lines will open in next 5 years:
Line 10, Line 8 (Olympic line), L1 (Airport line) will open next year, Line 4, Line 9, L2 will open in 2009 ...


----------



## XHD

Life in Beijing will be more convenient！the new station looks great ！


----------



## iampuking

The elevated stations are nice, but the underground stations are just... Blah. You can't tell them apart from any other Chinese metro to be honest.


----------



## APOQUINDO

Great !! it´s a city with a big potential ...


----------



## Anekdote

The underground stations look like as usual in many or every Chinese metro systems, but the evelated looks good.


----------



## Jiangwho

Anyway its better than the old ones.


----------



## Vinicius

Great line.


----------



## superchan7

Nice elevated stations. But please, somebody get rid of those ugly metal gates and fences. They belong in the 1970s, as do those flimsy metal traffic dividers on all the major roads in China.


----------



## UD2

The underground stations of this line are greatly limited in terms of aesthetics because this entire line was actually consturcted in the 1970s. It just wansn't open to public. One of the reason why all the stations look exactly the same.


----------



## big-dog

UD2 said:


> The underground stations of this line are greatly limited in terms of aesthetics because this entire line was actually consturcted in the 1970s. It just wansn't open to public. One of the reason why all the stations look exactly the same.


really? built in 1970s? Ive never heard of that. Could you give me more info on Line 5 construction?


----------



## iampuking

UD2 said:


> The underground stations of this line are greatly limited in terms of aesthetics because this entire line was actually consturcted in the 1970s. It just wansn't open to public. One of the reason why all the stations look exactly the same.


So you're telling me all that oh-so-exciting cladding is from the 70s?

And most new metros in China look the same anyway.


----------



## anonymous_filipino

congratulations to Beijing for having a really state-of-the-art subway line! all it has to do is to refurbish all old lines..


----------



## big-dog

iampuking said:


> So you're telling me all that oh-so-exciting cladding is from the 70s?
> 
> And most new metros in China look the same anyway.


Maybe he's talking about the subway tunnel. But even that is very doubtful. The Line 5 constructions started in Dec 2002, if there was a built tunnel already, it won't take so much time.


----------



## iampuking

big-dog said:


> Maybe he's talking about the subway tunnel. But even that is very doubtful. The Line 5 constructions started in Dec 2002, if there was a built tunnel already, it won't take so much time.


So even if the tunnels were built in the 70s, the stations weren't. 

No excuse then!


----------



## ChinaboyUSA

I like the classic Beijing metro lines, and this brand new one. Lovely. When I was in Beijing and tried the line one and loop line, especially the loop line was so old, Beijing's subway is a good window to see how tolerent Beijing is.


----------



## big-dog

ChinaboyUSA said:


> I like the classic Beijing metro lines, and this brand new one. Lovely. When I was in Beijing and tried the line one and loop line, especially the loop line was so old, Beijing's subway is a good window to see how tolerent Beijing is.


A recent news saying that Beijing put 41 old subway train cars on bid, starting from 50k RMB ($7000), they were built and put in service in 1973.
http://web.xwwb.com/wbnews.php?db=2&thisid=103985










I think it's a good idea, they can be used for bars, small restaurant, beach ice cream stand, forest camping base, hawker food etc.


----------



## zergcerebrates

Most of the station are nice except this:










^ Err Hong Kong MTR, please help them with this and switch to glass! Didn't I read somewhere that the HK mtr is maintaining some of Beijing's line? Why on earth would they want to put metal fences, unless most Beijingers are still clumsy with heavy loads that can break the glass other wise thats ugly, even Shanghai, certain Guangzhou and Shenzhen stations dont use those anymore.


----------



## ChinaboyUSA

big-dog, that's very sweet. did you buy one?


----------



## samsonyuen

Looks great. WHy is there a line 13, when the ones after 1 & 2 aren't yet built?


----------



## big-dog

ChinaboyUSA said:


> big-dog, that's very sweet. did you buy one?


I may put a bid if they put them on ebay. Adding a piece of land I'll have a full house :lol:


----------



## big-dog

samsonyuen said:


> Looks great. WHy is there a line 13, when the ones after 1 & 2 aren't yet built?


Line numbers are determined by the Beijing civil planing department. They decided to build Line 13 first based on the traffic urgency. 

Most other lines will be finished in 5 years.


----------



## ChinaboyUSA

big-dog said:


> I may put a bid if they put them on ebay. Adding a piece of land I'll have a full house :lol:


Good idea, I am going back to China soon, maybe I can help you to make that happen


----------



## allan_dude

Lovely stations!


----------



## UD2

iampuking said:


> So you're telling me all that oh-so-exciting cladding is from the 70s?
> 
> And most new metros in China look the same anyway.


The claddings are new, but what's behind the cladding is very old. Which is why the designs of these new stations are so limited, and uniform. 

There are more lines under Beijing that are for government and military uses and are not open to public. There is another station under the current XiZhiMen station that's been lying there for decades without any public usage, but that's going to change soon as Line 4 completes construction. 

And Big-Dog, no I can't provide you with more information on Beijing's Line 5 original construction. All I could tell you that the recent "construction" is more of a update, than a build. Maybe someone else who's more knowladgeable than I am could fill you in on more.



> Looks great. WHy is there a line 13, when the ones after 1 & 2 aren't yet built?


Same thing as what I've mentioned above. All subway lines in Beijing are planed a long time ago, and some were built for government/military purposes that are not open to public. And yes, lines 1 and 2 are certainlly built and opened to public, line 4 has started construction and line 5 has recently been completed.


----------



## Gag Halfrunt

big-dog said:


> A recent news saying that Beijing put 41 old subway train cars on bid, starting from 50k RMB ($7000), they were built and put in service in 1973.
> http://web.xwwb.com/wbnews.php?db=2&thisid=103985
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's a good idea, they can be used for bars, small restaurant, beach ice cream stand, forest camping base, hawker food etc.


If that photo is correct, the cars up for sale were built in China for the Pyongyang metro and sold in 1998 to Beijing, where they were used on line 13. Apart from the front end styling, they're apparently very similar to the first Beijing metro trains and were made by the same factory.


----------



## kingkong

*Beijing Line 5 will be opened at the end of September!*










































































































































































































Enjoy.:cheers:


----------



## hkth

Please check this related thread, pal. hno:


----------



## zergcerebrates

*Beijing Airport Express Railway*

*Beijing Capital International Airport Link's ART MK II Vehicles Debut in Changchun*



















On Sep. 7, the first train, which comprises 4 ART (Advanced Rapid Transit) MK II vehicles, that is to be used for Beijing Capital International Airport Link connecting Dongzhimen Station to the Beijing Capital International Airport using Bombardier's ART technology made its debut in Changchun.

In March 2006, Bombardier received an order from Changchun Railway Vehicles (CRC) as part of a contract awarded to CRC by the Beijing Dongzhimen Airport Express Rail Co. Ltd. for the supply of 40 ART MK II vehicles for the Beijing Capital International Airport Link.

It is known that Bombardier participates in project management and is responsible for vehicle systems engineering and integration, design and manufacture of the bogies as well as the propulsion and braking systems while Changchun Railway Vehicles (CRC) manufactures the 40 ART MK II vehicles.

Once fully operational, the airport link will serve four different stations: Dongzhimen, Sanyuanqiao, Beijing Capital International Airport's Terminal 2 and Terminal 3. Passengers will be able to interchange trains conveniently at the Dongzhimen and Sanyuanqiao Stations, where connections to the 2008 Olympic village will be available.

In addition, a special lounge at the Dongzhimen Station will allow passengers to initiate flight-boarding procedures before arriving at the airport as well.


----------



## Codfish

I've seen some places (e.g., http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2007-07/11/content_6000167.htm) that it'll open on September 20... anybody have verifiable info which date is more accurate?

Personally, I'm waiting for Line 4, since there'll be a station five minutes away from where I live... but I know that's not coming for quite some time. Sigh.


----------



## city_thing

The exterior of the train is nice. The interior though...not so much.

Looks like it's from the 1970's.


----------



## zergcerebrates

*Automatic People Mover*

^ I thought it was quite nice. I guess its the color, we will know how it really looks like once pics become more available.


----------



## Codfish

Also (sorry to double-post), though it looks from the pictures like Line 5 itself is almost ready, I'm not sure the rest of the lines are! None of the system maps in any station I've seen include it, nor do maps in the subway cars themselves. Furthermore, I was at Yonghegong station to day (the northern Line 5/Line 2 transfer station), and I didn't see any way that passengers will be able to get from the existing platform to the Line 5 platform. Outside the station, I did see one blocked-off entrance with the Line 5 (as well as Line 2) starting and ending times listed, but that was it. If this line is going to open by the end of the month, hopefully they'll get on this soon!


----------



## mrmoopt

What's the top speed of the ART|| vehicles?
It seems that the track used to display this vehicle is powered by both the propietry ART third track in the middle and by overhead power; will the airport route share tracks with other existing services?
Has the sharing of routes been done before by a ART and non ART services before anywhere in the world?


----------



## mr.x

cal_t said:


> What's the top speed of the ART|| vehicles?
> It seems that the track used to display this vehicle is powered by both the propietry ART third track in the middle and by overhead power; will the airport route share tracks with other existing services?
> Has the sharing of routes been done before by a ART and non ART services before anywhere in the world?


Vancouver's metro uses the same ART Mark II cars and has a maximum design speed of 90 km/h.

Regarding sharing of routes between ART and non-ART, no.


----------



## zergcerebrates

90km/h is kinda slow


----------



## Clashman

It doesn't need to be "that" fast, as the airport isn't really that far away from the city center. It should be cheap, however, at least more so than taking one of the cabs from those blood-thirsty taxi drivers at Beijing Airport.


----------



## goschio

90km/h is kind of slow.


----------



## superchan7

Finally, a good-looking paint job on a Chinese train. Come on now, let's get the rest of the trains out of those Soviet-era paint jobs.


----------



## zergcerebrates

More photos of this train thanks to bigdog:


----------



## Bitxofo

Interior decoration is a bit "serious"...
:dunno:


----------



## -Corey-

it's okay.. nothing special..


----------



## anonymous_filipino

at least the interior is modern, fitted with LCD screens.


----------



## UD2

the number of trains on this line, when considering the length of the service and number of stations doesn't warrant any faster service. 

The gap between the trains arn't that great (around 3-4 minutes each) at peak? I wouldn't drive any faster than 90.


----------



## DJZG

photos of that tunnel maybe?
and i was hoping to see planned route on wide beijing map..


----------



## Lawcheehung

I absolutely love the white against bright vibrant colours! I wish I could be there, but I'll be watching on t.v. >.<


----------



## phubben

I don't think an official map of the Beijing metro with "to open" extensions has been posted... Does anyone have one?
I've been looking on the official site, unfortunately it has no english version!


----------



## big-dog

Line 5 opening day is postponed to Oct 7th. Here's the collection of Line 5 stations:

Beiyuan Street North station


















Lishui bridge station









Tiantan East Gate Station, ticketing machine being installed



























Puhuangyu Station, apple green theme


















Lijiayao Station


















Lishui Bridge South Station




































Beiyuan North Station, silkworm pod shaped




































Datun East Station


















Huxinxi North gate



























Tiantongyuan South


















Lishui Bridge


----------



## hkskyline

*Beijing likely to cut subway fares to ease traffic congestion *

BEIJING, Sept. 27 (Xinhua) -- Beijing's subway fares look set to be reduced in an effort to ease congestion on the capital's roads. 

In a public hearing held by the Beijing Municipal Development and Reform Commission on Wednesday, two subway pricing systems were proposed: lower the price of a one-way ticket to two yuan (27 U.S. cents); adopt a flexible pricing system ranging from two to four yuan (54 cents) according to the distance traveled. 

Most of the people attending the meeting - transport experts, passengers, representatives of the metro operator and government officials - favored the single pricing system, under which 80 percent of commuters will save 1.3 yuan (17 cents) every trip. 

Chai Xiaozhong, deputy director of Beijing municipal development and reform commission, said a final decision is expected to be made before National Day on October 1, when a new subway line will start operation. 

"The single pricing system is easier to adopt and cheaper for passengers. As more subway lines are completed, more people will choose to take the subway, the above-ground traffic jams will be eased and air quality will improve," said Liu Tongliang, head of Beijing municipal transportation administration bureau. 

Liu said the government expenditure on public transport will increase by one billion yuan (133 million U.S. dollars) annually if the single price scheme is adopted. 

"I will definitely vote for the two-yuan proposal as I will save up to 60 percent on metro fares," said Wang Xiaojie, a Beijing resident who usually takes two subway lines to get to his workplace. 

Under both schemes, the monthly metro ticket which have been used for over 10 years in the city, will be revoked. 

However, some voiced concerns. Ou Guoli, a professor from Beijing Jiaotong University, said the two oldest subway lines are basically saturated during rush hours, and if the price goes down, the authorities should consider how to cope with more passengers. 

Beijing now has four subway lines with a total mileage of 114 km and they transport about 1.15 million passengers daily, 15 percent of the total commuters. 

According to the municipal government, Beijing will add three subway lines next year and the total mileage will reach 200 km.


----------



## davidwei01

The stations look nice and unique, esp this one.



>


----------



## RON-E

amazing pictures of an amazing system! love it!


----------



## superchan7

Beiyuan North station is VERY cool, but those metal gates and fences really need to go.


----------



## hkth

big-dog said:


> Beijing Subway Line 5 is close to completion, will open on Sep 30 2007.



Oooooooooo.... It could not be opened before the National Day (Oct 1). :tongue3: 

Xinhua News:
Beijing's new north-south subway line to start operation on Oct. 7


----------



## big-dog

hkth said:


> Oooooooooo.... It could not be opened before the National Day (Oct 1). :tongue3:
> 
> Xinhua News:
> Beijing's new north-south subway line to start operation on Oct. 7


please check my post #36.


----------



## big-dog

taken today 9.28 at Tiantongyuan station (beijingupdates.com)


----------



## zergcerebrates

This station has the best design by far


----------



## Gaeus

And I thought Dubai is only one who got a modernized looking designed metro!


----------



## oliver999

big-dog said:


> taken today 9.28 at Tiantongyuan station (beijingupdates.com)


nice pic:cheers:


----------



## big-dog

*Beijing cut metro price on line 5's openning day Oct 5*

*Beijing to cut subway fares to boost public transport *


> www.chinaview.cn 2007-09-30 20:34:51
> 
> BEIJING, Sept. 30 (Xinhua) -- The Beijing government has finally decided to cut subway fares by about 30 percent amid efforts to boost public transport, ease road congestion and improve air quality ahead of the Olympics.
> 
> *A single pricing system which means a one-way ticket costs just two yuan (27 U.S. cents), down from three yuan, will be introduced on Oct. 7, the same day as the opening of a new subway line which will run through the heart of the city from north to south. *
> Construction on the 27.6-km new line, Beijing's No. 5 Subway Line, began in December 2002, costing 12 billion yuan (about 1.6 billion U.S. dollars).
> 
> Beijing now has four subway lines with a total mileage of 114 km and they transport about 1.15 million passengers daily, 15 percent of the total commuters.
> 
> According to the municipal government, Beijing will add three subway lines next year and the total mileage will reach 200 km.
> 
> Before the final decision of lowering fares was made, a public hearing was held on Wednesday by the Beijing Municipal Development and Reform Commission, in which two subway pricing systems were proposed: lowering the price of a one-way ticket to two yuan; adopting a flexible pricing system ranging from two yuan to four yuan according to the distance one travels.
> 
> Most of the 25 people attending the meeting, including transport experts, passengers, representatives of the metro operator and government officials, favored the single pricing system, under which 80 percent of commuters will save 1.3 yuan (17 cents) every trip.
> 
> "The single pricing system is easier to adopt and cheaper for passengers. As more subway lines are completed, more people will choose to take the subway, the above-ground traffic jams will be eased and air quality will be better," said Liu Tongliang, head ofthe Beijing Municipal Transportation Administration Bureau.
> 
> Taking into account the inevitable rise of the number of subway passengers, local traffic authorities have promised to increase subway trains and shorten intervals between trains to boost the transport capacity.
> 
> Meanwhile, Liu said the government would increase expenditure on public transport by 1 billion yuan (133 million U.S. dollars) annually after the single price scheme is adopted.
> 
> Road congestion has been a major problem yet to be solved for the Chinese capital, which now registers more than 3 million vehicles, and citizens have been urged to take public transport to ease traffic pressure.
> 
> The municipal government has been giving discounts of up to 60 percent for residents -- and even 80 percent for students --- for bus tickets since the beginning of this year to encourage people to choose public transport.
> 
> The city aims to raise the proportion of citizens choosing public transport from about 30 percent to more than 40 percent by 2010, according to Liu Xiaoming, deputy director of the Beijing Municipal Commission of Communications.
> 
> To achieve this goal, Beijing will raise the number of buses from 18,000 to 21,000 by 2010, and extend the metro line from present 114 km to at least 270 km, Liu said.


----------



## Bitxofo

zergcerebrates said:


> This station has the best design by far


Very original and nice station!


----------



## YelloPerilo

^^
Look at the date of the news article!


----------



## SYDNEYAHOLIC

Beautiful metro cars but I think the stations in real life may be a little less inviting than the **** and span renders suggest. Good on you Beijing or building so much public transport infrastructure! Is there an issue with some of these new metro lines serving outlying districts which are better served by commuter rail services?


----------



## big-dog

Morning's *Batong line* and subway trains (*excellent shot* from beijingupdates.com)


----------



## Shezan

amazing metro.........


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

I keep seeing this over and over again and I'm not sure what to make of it. China's subway cars always look narrower than Western/Japanese/Korean trains whether it is from the inside or outside. But when you look up specifications, they are all 3 meters wide. Is it because Chinese trains are taller, giving the illusion that they are narrower or is it something with the walls?


----------



## UD2

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> I keep seeing this over and over again and I'm not sure what to make of it. China's subway cars always look narrower than Western/Japanese/Korean trains whether it is from the inside or outside. But when you look up specifications, they are all 3 meters wide. Is it because Chinese trains are taller, giving the illusion that they are narrower or is it something with the walls?


Beijing's subway cars are actually 2.5 meters wide. Not 3.


----------



## UD2

*Beijing Subways Trains*

*Trains: Beijing Subways Line 1*
Fully Underground

Credits to members of OurMetro.org

New Train















































Old Trains


----------



## UD2

*Beijing Subway Trains*

*Trains: Bejing Subways Line 4*
Credits to members of OurMetro.org

Opening 2009


----------



## UD2

*Beijing Subways Trains*

*Trains: Beijing Subway Line 2*
Fully Underground

Credits to members of OurMetro.org

New Train















































Old Trains


----------



## UD2

*Beijing Subway Trains*

*Trains: Beijing Subway Line 13*
Fully Above Ground

Credits to the members of OurMetro.org

New Trains



























































































Old Trains


----------



## UD2

*Beijing Subway Trains*

*Trains: Beijing Subway BaTong Line*
Fully above ground

Credits to the members of OurMetro.org

New Trains



















































































Old Trains


----------



## UD2

*Bejing Subway Trains*

*Trains: Beijing Subway Line 5* 
Part underground and party above ground

Credits to members of OurMetro and other ppl as well

Opened 2007


----------



## UD2

*Beijing Subway Trains*

Delete


----------



## UD2

*Beijing Subway Trains*

*Trains: Beijing Subway Line 10*

Credits to the members of Our Metro

Opening June 2008


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

UD2 said:


> Beijing's subway cars are actually 2.5 meters wide. Not 3.


2.5? Thats it? You sure its not 2.6 or 2.7? So Shanghai's subways are much wider than Beijing's?


----------



## mrmoopt

It looks like some of these 'new' trains are just rebodied externally and refurbished internally.


----------



## UD2

*Beijing Subway Trains*

*Trains: Bejing Aiport Express*
Fully Automatic. Using Vancover Skytrain technology
Fully Above Ground.

Credits to the members of OurMetro.org

Opening June 2008


----------



## UD2

cal_t said:


> It looks like some of these 'new' trains are just rebodied externally and refurbished internally.


incorrect, they're completely new. They just don't look as fancy inside as they do outside. Usability of glammer.


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## UD2

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> 2.5? Thats it? You sure its not 2.6 or 2.7? So Shanghai's subways are much wider than Beijing's?


I'm not sure if it is 2.5 or 2.6.

Shanghai's subway operates 3 meter or 2.5/6 meter trains. Depending on what lines they operate on.

Now if you really wanna compare width. Toronto's trains are 3.2.


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## Codfish

*Renamed stop on Beijing's Line 10*

A bit of news about the upcoming Line 10: the stop in Beijing's CBD, in the east part of town, that was scheduled to be called Guanghua Lu has been renamed "Jintaixizhao" 金台夕照, or "Golden Terrace in the Glow of the Setting Sun." It's named after one of the so-called "Eight Great Sites" of ancient Beijing, as decided by the Qianlong Emperor in the Qing Dynasty; apparently, there used to be a very pretty terrace around there. Needless to say, that area ain't so pretty now, but the name does sound cool.

A Xinhua article (sorry, Chinese only) announcing the decision is available here, and an English-language blog post poking fun at the decision, from the people at That's Beijing, can be seen here.

Honestly, as long as it opens soon, I don't care what crazy names they give the stops.


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## snow is red

Photo taken on April 11, 2008 shows the platform of Chongwenmen station of Beijing's No. 5 subway line in Beijing. Beijing's No. 5 subway line, which runs through the heart of the city from north to south, opened from last October after nearly five years' construction. The 27.6-km line is installed with 23 stations and runs from Tiantongyuan North Station in northern Beijing's Changping district to Songjiazhuang Station in southern Fengtai district. Equipped with a wireless communication network, live broadcasts will be provided on televisions installed in each subway car and passengers will never lose the signal on their mobile phones. The subway cars are wider and taller than the ones operating on the older lines and are designed to reach speeds of 80 km per hour. Elevators designed to aid disabled people have been installed.



















A child plays at the chairs on the platform of Dongsi station of Beijing's No. 5 subway line in Beijing










A passenger makes a call on the platform of Chongwenmen station of Beijing's No. 5 subway line in Beijing










Photo taken on April 11, 2008 shows the automatic analyzer on the platform of Dongdan station of Beijing's No. 5 subway line in Beijing










Photo taken on April 11, 2008 shows the platform of Dongdan station of Beijing's No. 5 subway line in Beijing










Photo taken on April 11, 2008 shows the blind sidewalk on the platform of Dengshikou station of Beijing's No. 5 subway line in Beijing











A child walks on the platform of Dongsi station of Beijing's No. 5 subway line with the pattern of Chinese chess in Beijing












Photo taken on April 11, 2008 shows the entrance and the exit of Zhangzizhong station of Beijing's No. 5 subway line in Beijing












Photo taken on April 11, 2008 shows the icons of the 13th Paralympic Games at the Beixinqiao station of Beijing's No. 5 subway line in Beijing. 











Passengers get off at the Lama Temple station of Beijing's No. 5 subway line in Beijing














Foreign tourists walk down the stairs at the Lama Temple station of Beijing's No. 5 subway line in Beijing













A foreign tourist walks down the stairs at the Lama Temple station of Beijing's No. 5 subway line in Beijing











Two subway trains run on the Beijing's No. 5 subway line in Beijing











A subway train runs on the Beijing's No. 5 subway line in Beijing












A subway train runs pass a pedestrian overbridge near the Lishuiqiao station of the Beijing's No. 5 subway line in Beijing












A subway train leaves the Beiyuanbeilu station of the Beijing's No. 5 subway line with the structure like "pod" in Beijing












A subway train arrives at the Datundonglu station of the Beijing's No. 5 subway line in Beijing












Photo taken on April 12, 2008 shows the electric board at the East Gate of the Temple of Heaven station of Beijing's No. 5 subway line in Beijing












Photo taken on April 12, 2008 shows the circular lamps at the East Gate of the Temple of Heaven station of Beijing's No. 5 subway line in Beijing













A passenger passes by a directional sign at the East Gate of the Temple of Heaven station of Beijing's No. 5 subway line in Beijing












Photo taken on April 12, 2008 shows the brailles signs at the Puhuangyu station of Beijing's No. 5 subway line in Beijing.


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## Codfish

From China Daily:

*Beijing Subway to bid farewell to paper tickets*

http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90776/90882/6400543.html

Beijing conducted the last large-scale trial operation for the Subway Automatic Fare Collection System (AFC subway system) on April 27th, according to Beijing News.

The staff concerned revealed that the AFC subway system will be put into use on May 17. By then the 30-year-old paper tickets, to be replaced by AFC one-way e-tickets, will officially quit from the historical stage.

The Subway Automatic Fare Collection System were tested on Line 1, Line 2, Line 5, Line 10, Batong line, Line 10 (not yet opened), the Olympic Extension, and the capital airport line. More than 120 stations were involved.

During the test, each station measured about 3,000 electronic tickets and 200 IC cards on average.


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## anonymous_filipino

^^ That's really good news for Beijing! Does that mean that Ticketing Machines similar to Hong Kong's MTR, Guangzhou's Metro, and Singapore's MRT will be put up in all of the stations?


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## VikramRao

When i was a kid in India I marveled at NYC's subway system. Now New Delhi has a cool system too. Im glad, China's metro's look so far ahead of NYC'S (and to a point Delhi's). One thing I noticed, the trains looked very small, like 3 or 4 cars, New Delhi's trains have almost 10 cars to one train. Still Very Very cool, Hopefully one day will travel to China and use these marvelous trains.


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## Aurelien

Line 10 of Beijing subway will open very soon.

Anybody has news or photos of the stations ?


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## binhai

^^ It opens July 5.

Pics:


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## zergcerebrates

VikramRao said:


> When i was a kid in India I marveled at NYC's subway system. Now New Delhi has a cool system too. Im glad, China's metro's look so far ahead of NYC'S (and to a point Delhi's). One thing I noticed, the trains looked very small, like 3 or 4 cars, New Delhi's trains have almost 10 cars to one train. Still Very Very cool, Hopefully one day will travel to China and use these marvelous trains.


Well different lines have different trains and lengths.


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## hkskyline

*China's newest train has a B.C. feel *
17 June 2008
The Globe and Mail

BEIJING -- When high-level Chinese delegations go to Vancouver, they often ask for a special visit to the SkyTrain. More than 100 Chinese delegations have inspected Vancouver's elevated train system in recent years.

Yesterday, the reason became clear. Beijing unveiled its latest train system – and it's a dead ringer for the SkyTrain.

The new elevated train will allow passengers from Beijing's airport to reach the heart of the Chinese capital in less than 20 minutes, travelling at speeds of up to 110 kilometres an hour.

The fully automated driverless transit system is based on Canadian technology pioneered on the SkyTrain in Vancouver. Its train cars, manufactured by Bombardier Inc. under a $68-million contract, are powered by linear induction motors built by a British Columbia company.

The Canadian suppliers took an inaugural test drive on the elevated train to Beijing's airport yesterday. “If I closed my eyes, I'd think I was in Vancouver,” said Paul Bayston, president of Wismer & Rawlings Electric Ltd., the Okanagan-based company that provided the motors for SkyTrain and the new Beijing airport link.

“The technology for the propulsion systems was pioneered in the Vancouver system,” Mr. Bayston said. “It's the same technology.”

The 28-kilometre elevated train, billed as an Olympic project, is expected to go into full swing before the Beijing Olympics begin Aug. 8. It's seen as an ideal showcase for Bombardier and its B.C. supplier.

Mr. Bayston believes the Beijing project will pave the way for a breakthrough in the Chinese transit market. “This is pretty exciting,” he said. “It's very high-profile. This is the first use of this technology in China. I think now we're going to be looking at significant growth in China for this technology.”

The booming southern city of Guangzhou has already decided to use the same Canadian technology for a subway extension project. It has chosen a consortium led by Bombardier as the preferred bidder, although negotiations are not yet under way.

“There are various bids out right now in China for systems using this technology, and I think we'll be successful,” Mr. Bayston said.

“We have active bids in three cities right now, and there are more on the way. I'm very optimistic. With what it can do in steep grades and tight corners, this technology is what is needed in these busy, growing cities in Asia.”

Bombardier's president of China operations, Jianwei Zhang, confirmed that SkyTrain was a huge influence on the new Beijing train. “Vancouver's SkyTrain is very famous in China and has become one of the most popular attractions for Chinese visitors to Vancouver,” he said.

The SkyTrain technology, known as Advanced Rapid Transit (ART), was first used in the Scarborough extension of Toronto's subway system. It has also gone into operation in Detroit and New York's John F. Kennedy airport, although Vancouver remains its biggest user.

The Beijing airport link is the second major application of the ART technology in Asia, following a similar system in Kuala Lumpur. Its third sale in Asia is in South Korea.

Mr. Bayston said his company has sold more than 1,200 of its linear induction motors for more than 600 ART trains around the world. It has 35 to 40 full-time employees manufacturing the motors at its plant in Okanagan Falls, near Penticton.

The Canadians were amazed that Beijing had completed its airport train project in just two years. “That's world-leading speed,” said Stephen Hall, a senior Bombardier manager.

Mr. Zhang acknowledged that Bombardier had endured “more stress” as a result of the rush to finish the airport train project before the Beijing Olympics. “Even for China, this is a very tight schedule.”

Kevin Falcon, B.C.'s Minister of Transportation, rode the airport train yesterday and said he was impressed. “This is a technology that has served British Columbia very well for over 20 years, and I think it will serve Beijing and the Chinese very well in the decades to come,” he said.

“I see nothing but good coming out of this. It's important that we celebrate it, because I think in Canada, frankly, we're much too shy about celebrating our successes. This clearly is a big success. We need to do more in Asia, and I think this is a good step in the right direction.”


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## deasine

Unfortunately, we didn't choose SkyTrain technology for our airport.

I love the interiors of the Beijing Airport Express. Sure it's a little monotone in terms of colour, it's extremely nice and clean and looks very bright. There are TV screens too =)

To those thinking 90 km/hr is slow, SkyTrain can reach up a max speed of 110 km/hr (or was it 100), but there are so many stations on our SkyTrain line, it can only reach 90 km/hr as the top operational speed.

Back to the Airport Express, I heard China is extremely interested in building a few other metros using Linear Motor Technology, similar to this like and SkyTrain.


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## ode of bund

*Flooded Beijing Subway*

Beijing Chongwenmen (Gate of Civil Uphold) subway station after a torrential rain. The Olympic is so desperately close now, and the city infrasture is still so vulneralble to the most common call of the nature.


http://bbs.52bus.com/attachment.php?aid=390255&k=8417bd13490742a6db0c0a4f098973f2&t=1215829018&nothumb=yes


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## urbanfan89

Wow, I hope it isn't due to shoddy construction.


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## Codfish

Yeah, that was bad. They had to shut down a whole stretch of Line 5 for quite a few hours. I wish the system were more waterproof...

That said, though, that was a particularly bad rainstorm, in a city for which (contrary to what o.p. said) that isn't actually very common. We're on the edge of the Mongolian steppe here, folks. It rains a good amount during the summer, but not all that much. It's common knowledge here that Beijing isn't good at dealing with rain - my neighbors like to tell stories of rainstorms when the water level in the streets came up to their knees or higher. Yes, the sewer system needs a bit of work, and that extends to the subway; but fortunately, it's not a problem we face _all_ that often.

A more important issue to discuss with regard to Beijing: does anybody have any clue when the $#^@% Line 10, Line 8, and the Airport Express are supposed to open?! The original date was the end of June... then the beginning of July... then mid-July... and now, all they're saying is "before the Olympics." I read online it might open this Monday (the 15th), and there are some signs this is true: on a ride on Line 13 today, all the maps of the system had been taken down, as if they're about to put up the new versions with the new lines. But that's hardly conclusive evidence.

Place yer bets, folks!


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## Letniczka

Who wonders when almost every Chinese city pays more attention to new higher and higher skyscapers than to own infrastructure. High buildings gain city's prestige, subways are invisible, so who really cares about their design or quality. First european metro systems are already about 100 years old, and they are still clean and reliable, till today, but I'm very curious to know the condition of Beijing's metro in the year 2050.


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## the spliff fairy

actually Beijing is building the worlds biggest metro, to be 560 km by 2015. Tha Shanghai one will overtake London and be 500km by 2010, whilst in Guangzhou-Shenzhen theyre building the worlds largest by 2018, 2000km. All the Chinese cities are extending theyre metros from Wuhan to Nanjing to Dalain.


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## The Auckland Kid

the spliff fairy said:


> actually Beijing is building the worlds biggest metro, to be 560 km by 2015. Tha Shanghai one will overtake London and be 500km by 2010, whilst in Guangzhou-Shenzhen theyre building the worlds largest by 2018, 2000km. All the Chinese cities are extending theyre metros from Wuhan to Nanjing to Dalain.


Well not yet!!! And the bigger the metro the more problems, also the more people there are the more of the problem! U cant compare the next 100 years to the last 100 years. To many differences! I think metro in highly populated cities have to always looking out for minor problems, as it becomes harder and harder to shut down and huge sections of infustracture with bigger population every year. And to make it worse, more people are using public transport, so harder to clean, fix. I think the chinese GOVT will be looking out for this, but i dnt think being a bigger metro nesseraly means it will last as long as the others. It all comes down to the people who use it, and the more people using it the worse it becomes if not properly and effecently maintained and treated properly.


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## snow is red

Letniczka said:


> Who wonders when almost every Chinese city pays more attention to new higher and higher skyscapers than to own infrastructure. High buildings gain city's prestige, subways are invisible, so who really cares about their design or quality. First european metro systems are already about 100 years old, and they are still clean and reliable, till today, but I'm very curious to know the condition of Beijing's metro in the year 2050.


Reliable yes, and about clean, I am not sure. But are you saying all of this without any maintenance works ? And those old stations always work fine without any problems since the first day they were opened ?


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## snow is red

The thread starter gives a Chinese language source (which is quite against the rule of international forum)

Now this is a report in English.


*Torrential rain knocks out new Beijing subway line for three hours* 


www.chinaview.cn 2008-07-05 

BEIJING, July 4 (Xinhua) -- Beijing's new subway Line 5 was closed for three hours on Friday after heavy rains resulted in water leaking into one of the main stations. 

The Beijing Meteorological Bureau issued a rainstorm warning at8 p.m., and predicted a precipitation of more than 50 millimeters with lightning and wind gusts for the ensuing six hours. 

The massive downpours resulted in rain water flowing into the underground subway coordination office in the low-lying Chongwenmen Station, a transit station for Line 2. 

The subway company cutting electricity to the line for safety reasons, and the operation between the southern end of Songjiazhuang to the Lama Temple Station was suspended. 

Sand bags and cotton quilts were piled up at the entrances where the water was coming into the station, and normal operation resumed at 11 p.m. after the water was stopped. 

Line 5 was opened to the public in October last year and runs for 27 kilometers north-south across the city. 

Operation of the other lines of the Beijing Subway were not affected. 

The torrential rain also caused traffic jams in the city. Monitors at the municipal traffic administration showed lines of vehicles at some sections of the second and third ring roads in downtown Beijing even as late as at 10:35 p.m. on Friday. 

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-07/05/content_8492631.htm


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## hkskyline

Cities don't always plan for extreme weather scenarios, and the notion of 'extreme' has been changing quite a lot in the past few years anyway. The same question on disaster readiness goes to New York when a big snowstorm happens, or plenty of European cities when heat waves strike and air conditioning is not common.


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## UD2

Codfish said:


> Yeah, that was bad. They had to shut down a whole stretch of Line 5 for quite a few hours. I wish the system were more waterproof...
> 
> That said, though, that was a particularly bad rainstorm, in a city for which (contrary to what o.p. said) that isn't actually very common. We're on the edge of the Mongolian steppe here, folks. It rains a good amount during the summer, but not all that much. It's common knowledge here that Beijing isn't good at dealing with rain - my neighbors like to tell stories of rainstorms when the water level in the streets came up to their knees or higher. Yes, the sewer system needs a bit of work, and that extends to the subway; but fortunately, it's not a problem we face _all_ that often.
> 
> A more important issue to discuss with regard to Beijing: does anybody have any clue when the $#^@% Line 10, Line 8, and the Airport Express are supposed to open?! The original date was the end of June... then the beginning of July... then mid-July... and now, all they're saying is "before the Olympics." I read online it might open this Monday (the 15th), and there are some signs this is true: on a ride on Line 13 today, all the maps of the system had been taken down, as if they're about to put up the new versions with the new lines. But that's hardly conclusive evidence.
> 
> Place yer bets, folks!



Line 10 opened late June. Airport line should open with in days, if it hasn't already been opened. Line 8 should open soon as well, but it will cut pretty close to the Olypmics from the looks of it.


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## UD2

Letniczka said:


> Who wonders when almost every Chinese city pays more attention to new higher and higher skyscapers than to own infrastructure. High buildings gain city's prestige, subways are invisible, so who really cares about their design or quality. First european metro systems are already about 100 years old, and they are still clean and reliable, till today, but I'm very curious to know the condition of Beijing's metro in the year 2050.


The Chinese cities are certainly pany alot of attention to their own infastructure than anyone else in the world. cities like Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, Shengzhen, Tianjin, Chongqing, Nanjing, Chengdu, changchun, Shenyang, Wuhan, Dalian, Xi'an, Shengyang, Fuoshan, Suzhou, Harbin all have one or more lines under construction. Many other cities have BRT systems running and are continueing to build them.

Beijing for example; Opened 4 new subway lines in the past 8 years, 2 more will open this year before the olympics, 2 more in the next two years and so on. This year, Beijing also upgraded Line 2's entire traffic control system to allow for 90 second gaps inbetween trains, which are some of the shorttest in the world. On top of that, the entire tunnel system for lines 1 and 2 have been upgraded to accomedate air conditions trains which came into service this year. Beijing is also investing heavily into BRT routes, one have already opened with success. 

On top of public transit, there are routes, expressways, new train stations, airports, seaports, birdges, public works, educational institutions, hospitals .....Many other cities in China have the same success story that I have mentioned.

Now please spare us your ignorance and go do some research on your own.


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## bayviews

It's untimely & sad that China's cities have suffered some serious, deadly natural catastraphies in the months before the Olympics. But as an American I find it hard to lecture the Chinese on their rebuilding efforts. I'm sure that if New Orleans was located in China, it would be rebuilt bigger & better than it ever was, instead of still being stuck in limbo. We Americans seem to have lost the capacity to make or build much of anything these days.


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## Svartmetall

the spliff fairy said:


> actually Beijing is building the worlds biggest metro, to be 560 km by 2015. Tha Shanghai one will overtake London and be 500km by 2010, whilst in Guangzhou-Shenzhen theyre building the worlds largest by 2018, 2000km. All the Chinese cities are extending theyre metros from Wuhan to Nanjing to Dalain.


I'd still argue that having a HUGE metro is not quite as efficient as having a smaller metro and urban railway systems working in synergy. Metros are too slow for long distances so having the "worlds largest" tag for this doesn't necessarily mean it offers the best service. Look at Tokyo - they could have built a huge metro system, but instead they opted for a synergy model and they have one of the most efficient and effective urban railway networks in the world.


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## UD2

Svartmetall said:


> I'd still argue that having a HUGE metro is not quite as efficient as having a smaller metro and urban railway systems working in synergy. Metros are too slow for long distances so having the "worlds largest" tag for this doesn't necessarily mean it offers the best service. Look at Tokyo - they could have built a huge metro system, but instead they opted for a synergy model and they have one of the most efficient and effective urban railway networks in the world.


Let me put this into prespective for you. The Tokyo Subway system have a system length of 328.8KM, according to Wikipedia. Do you see your error yet? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_subway


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## Svartmetall

UD2 said:


> Let me put this into prespective for you. The Tokyo Subway system have a system length of 328.8KM, according to Wikipedia. Do you see your error yet?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_subway


Look at how much of Tokyo the metro covers. Does it serve all 30 million odd people in the Tokyo metropolitan area? No! The very article you linked me to states quite categorically:



Tokyo Subway Wikipedia article said:


> While the subway system itself is largely within the city center, the lines extend far out via extensive through services onto suburban railway lines.


Therefore, my statement about a synergy between important lines such as the Yamanote (busiest line of all I believe), Chūō, Sōbu, Tōkaidō and all of the other JR East lines are of equal importance in the network and are essential for the efficiency of the transport network in Tokyo. 

A good transport system benefits the short distance commuter (where metros are very efficient), medium distance commuters and long distance commuters. The joy with some of the JR East lines is that they operate express lines and local lines, much like the NY Subway. This caters for the long distance journeys more effectively and cuts down journey times. From the plans I've seen for both Shanghai and Beijing neither of these networks have express lines yet have incredibly long lines in places. Although it is unlikely that people will ride from one end to the other, long metro lines aren't necessarily the most efficient way to travel due to frequent stops.


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## Codfish

UD2 said:


> Line 10 opened late June. Airport line should open with in days, if it hasn't already been opened. Line 8 should open soon as well, but it will cut pretty close to the Olypmics from the looks of it.


Um... I live in Beijing. Line 10 hasn't opened yet. Nor has the Airport Express. As of Friday, there were no definite estimates of when the lines would open.


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## TRZ

Svartmetall said:


> Look at how much of Tokyo the metro covers. Does it serve all 30 million odd people in the Tokyo metropolitan area? No! The very article you linked me to states quite categorically:


Tokyo Metro covers a relatively small area. None of the lines go south of the Yamanote Line, and the don't go very far west (except the Yuurakuchou Line) or east (except the Touzai Line and Toei Shinjuku Line) of it either. "Far" might be subjective though. 





Svartmetall said:


> Therefore, my statement about a synergy between important lines such as the Yamanote (busiest line of all I believe), Chūō, Sōbu, Tōkaidō and all of the other JR East lines are of equal importance in the network and are essential for the efficiency of the transport network in Tokyo.
> 
> A good transport system benefits the short distance commuter (where metros are very efficient), medium distance commuters and long distance commuters. The joy with some of the JR East lines is that they operate express lines and local lines, much like the NY Subway. This caters for the long distance journeys more effectively and cuts down journey times. From the plans I've seen for both Shanghai and Beijing neither of these networks have express lines yet have incredibly long lines in places. Although it is unlikely that people will ride from one end to the other, long metro lines aren't necessarily the most efficient way to travel due to frequent stops.


As far as Tokyo's through-services go, the vast majority are on private railways, not JR (only Touzai and Chiyoda lines run through on JR, and these operations are very short in Touzai Line's case). 

That said, it should be noted that the private commuter railways, as well as JR for that matter, are by far faster than the subway system, even on the local services. Keiou, Keikyuu, and Odakyuu railways run extremely fast services with frequent and varying express services whose speeds regularly hit 100km/h or faster, even on the local service depending on the distance between stations. The subway can be as slow as 30km/h due to excessive curves in the Tokyo network, usually they travel around 50km/h between stations, some areas slower and some areas faster. Commuter lines are 2 or 3 times faster in travel speed.

The biggest advantage of the Tokyo system, excluding southern areas like Meguro, Setagaya, and Oota wards where the system doesn't really go (commuter lines do though), is its coverage, most major streets have a subway beneath them. It is slow though, I do not consider it a successful system. Some of the lines do have express services though: Toei Shinjuku, and Fukutoshin Lines, plus a rapid service on the Touzai Line, and a very limited airport express on the Asakusa Line. Toei Shinjuku is probably the best subway line in the network, which is funny since it is one of Tokyo's oldest.

I expect Chinese cities may suffer similar problems but how big these problems will be is somewhat dependent on the station spacing their systems employ, as well as how many curves in their lines between stations (this has a big impact if the trains are long). NYC is one idea that works, but it is challenging in its own right, too. A double-tracked line with quad-tracked stations (all stations) can provide the highest capacities though, and that may be what is in the bigger Chinese cities best interests. Based on some pictures I have seen of the crowds in Shanghai and other systems in China, they really should have employed that; AFAIK, they haven't done so (but I am not very familiar with the details of Chinese metros' built forms).


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## Svartmetall

TRZ said:


> As far as Tokyo's through-services go, the vast majority are on private railways, not JR (only Touzai and Chiyoda lines run through on JR, and these operations are very short in Touzai Line's case).


Thanks for the clarification! It's difficult to find information on the rail network in Tokyo (beyond the metro and the well known lines) as someone who can't speak Japanese. I'm glad that you agree that the Tokyo metro actually covers small section of the Tokyo metropolitan area.


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## sarflonlad

China's mad rush to build metros has raised unease amongst Chinese politicians themselves. As all metros, they're expensive to maintain and will not necessarily meet the expectations of reducing overcrowding and ridership. With China being the way it is - economically & politically - metros are relatively cheap to build... So best do it now like other big metro systems did on cheap labour.

However, it is concerning the sheer pace of the build. If brand new metros are flooding now, what does that say about the quality of the infrastructure? I don't mean to be insensitive, but around the Sichuan earthquake a lot of focus came out on the newer buildings that had collapsed: because they were in a rush to put them up as cheaply as possible.


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## TRZ

sarflonlad said:


> However, it is concerning the sheer pace of the build. If brand new metros are flooding now, what does that say about the quality of the infrastructure? I don't mean to be insensitive, but around the Sichuan earthquake a lot of focus came out on the newer buildings that had collapsed: because they were in a rush to put them up as cheaply as possible.


I wouldn't be as concerned about the pace as I would the business ethic in China, which is discomforting, except for Hong Kong thanks to its days as a British colony (which has a significant impact on their business practices).

There was a subway construction cave-in that the contracting officer on the site was trying desperately to keep under wraps for the sake of money; people died in that cave-in. This was quite the news story. I believe this was a Beijing line since it was related to the Olympics. 

There is a huge problem with Chinese business ethic in their construction industry, and it goes beyond the buildings that fell in the earthquake; I expect no difference in quality in their subways. 

Manpower isn't the problem; if any country has it, it is China. So it should easily be possible for them to build it this fast. However the business practices in there are a recipe for disaster. Too much greed and too little professionalism.


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## hkskyline

sarflonlad said:


> However, it is concerning the sheer pace of the build. If brand new metros are flooding now, what does that say about the quality of the infrastructure? I don't mean to be insensitive, but around the Sichuan earthquake a lot of focus came out on the newer buildings that had collapsed: because they were in a rush to put them up as cheaply as possible.


I don't think we can judge the overall quality of the infrastructure based on one freak storm. I'd be a lot more troubled if there are regular leaks and floods. I've seen New York subway platforms that leaked so badly that I had to keep my umbrella indoors, yet I doubt the whole place would cave in, or would the rest of the system join the collapse?


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## TRZ

hkskyline said:


> I don't think we can judge the overall quality of the infrastructure based on one freak storm. I'd be a lot more troubled if there are regular leaks and floods. I've seen New York subway platforms that leaked so badly that I had to keep my umbrella indoors, yet I doubt the whole place would cave in, or would the rest of the system join the collapse?


New York isn't an earthquake zone though. It isn't designed to withstand an earthquake either, because it will never need to.


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## hkskyline

TRZ said:


> New York isn't an earthquake zone though. It isn't designed to withstand an earthquake either, because it will never need to.


Disaster preparation is not just limited to earthquakes. If stations are not built soundly, then even water or storm runoff can wreck havoc on station structures. Don't under-estimate the power of seeping water on concrete and metal. So just because New York is not in an earthquake-prone area is not an excuse that station platforms can leak.

What people seem to have forgotten is the amount of foreign expertise involved in Chinese subway construction. Many of the contracts are awarded to foreign enterprises, from design to construction and even the rolling stock. For the Beijing subway, the biggest test came when it came out relatively unscathed in the 1976 Tangshan earthquake, which killed hundreds of thousands.


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## snow is red

TRZ said:


> New York isn't an earthquake zone though. It isn't designed to withstand an earthquake either, because it will never need to.


And is Beijing an Earthquake zone ?


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## snow is red

hkskyline said:


> I don't think we can judge the overall quality of the infrastructure based on one freak storm. I'd be a lot more troubled if there are regular leaks and floods. I've seen New York subway platforms that leaked so badly that I had to keep my umbrella indoors, yet I doubt the whole place would cave in, or would the rest of the system join the collapse?


Exactly, the flood in the Beijing subway this time is from the entrance, it flows from from the entrance into the office, and that is obviously not a leak.

of course, some people here from countries that hardly experience (my guess) any natural diaster like a freak storm like this and they quickly judge other people's infastructure.

Maybe we shall wait and see when a torrential rain or an earthquake hits their city, and I'll see what they have to say about their country's infastructure quality.

so don't quickly judge others when yours haven't gone through a nature's test.


----------



## snow is red

TRZ said:


> New York isn't an earthquake zone though. It isn't designed to withstand an earthquake either, because it will never need to.


Based on this statement, I would like to ask you sir TRZ and Sarflonlad to explain this article to me.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080630130119.htm

Ye maybe you're right that New York is not a quake prone zone, but what if things happen unexpectedly ? oh shall we use the same arguement ? 

ye we shall see.


----------



## snow is red

Read this about Tokyo from Bloomberg


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=aGKSwfqXmT1o&refer=japan


----------



## TRZ

hkskyline said:


> Disaster preparation is not just limited to earthquakes. If stations are not built soundly, then even water or storm runoff can wreck havoc on station structures. Don't under-estimate the power of seeping water on concrete and metal. So just because New York is not in an earthquake-prone area is not an excuse that station platforms can leak.


You specifically mentioned cave-ins and collapsing structures. Generally, something pretty strong has to start something so catastrophic. While a hurricane could also fit the bill, which NY does get sometimes, an earthquake is the most likely culprit to cause a large-scale collapse.

Over the long term, you are correct that water is a powerful force, in fact, the only thing you forget was that it is the most powerful force that these systems have to deal with; because they must deal with it continuously. That and soil pressure (which also includes water in the soil anyway). While the biggest long-term issue is water, the advantage here is that, in almost all cases, it has the lee-way of being a long-term issue. While I agree that they shouldn't doddle on these issues if they're smart, they are manageable even if not addressed immediately (it's just bad practice to not address these immediately).

System collapse is pretty hard to imagine without an earthquake though.



hkskyline said:


> What people seem to have forgotten is the amount of foreign expertise involved in Chinese subway construction. Many of the contracts are awarded to foreign enterprises, from design to construction and even the rolling stock. For the Beijing subway, the biggest test came when it came out relatively unscathed in the 1976 Tangshan earthquake, which killed hundreds of thousands.


All the foreign involvement in the world is not going to help if there is extreme, and even dangerous (as has been the case with some of the schools that fell in the recent earthquake), cost-cutting implemented by the Chinese, possibly without notification to the over-seeing powers that are managing the whole thing. Regardless of foreign involvement, the construction crews are still Chinese; it'd be insanely expensive otherwise, but I can believe that the construction management firm is foreign - but it isn't guaranteed that they will have all the information of what goes on (although they're supposed to). There's a lot of bribery from what I understand of Chinese business practices (excluding Hong Kong), and that does not bode well for the quality of construction in anything.


----------



## TRZ

02tonyl said:


> And is Beijing an Earthquake zone ?


Beijing felt the recent big quake in China.


----------



## TRZ

02tonyl said:


> Exactly, the flood in the Beijing subway this time is from the entrance, it flows from from the entrance into the office, and that is obviously not a leak.
> 
> of course, some people here from countries that hardly experience (my guess) any natural diaster like a freak storm like this and they quickly judge other people's infastructure.
> 
> Maybe we shall wait and see when a torrential rain or an earthquake hits their city, and I'll see what they have to say about their country's infastructure quality.
> 
> so don't quickly judge others when yours haven't gone through a nature's test.


Well, my hometown's subway network has dealt with massive blizzards, tornado-brewing winds, heavy rain, extreme heat, extreme cold, and a massive fire in the system. That system is quite the trooper, and I hold it as a standard as do others in the industry. It isn't the most aesthetic, but it's sound.


----------



## hkskyline

TRZ said:


> You specifically mentioned cave-ins and collapsing structures. Generally, something pretty strong has to start something so catastrophic. While a hurricane could also fit the bill, which NY does get sometimes, an earthquake is the most likely culprit to cause a large-scale collapse.


Water damage from years of maintenance neglect can cause enough erosion to compromise the entire structure. After all, many of New York's stations are fairly aged. I don't see why neglect can take place in light of the extraordinary circumstance when water damage can actually cause structural failure, just as my curiosity as to why people are overly concerned the Beijing subway will suddenly collapse from one freak storm's flooding.



TRZ said:


> All the foreign involvement in the world is not going to help if there is extreme, and even dangerous (as has been the case with some of the schools that fell in the recent earthquake), cost-cutting implemented by the Chinese, possibly without notification to the over-seeing powers that are managing the whole thing. Regardless of foreign involvement, the construction crews are still Chinese; it'd be insanely expensive otherwise, but I can believe that the construction management firm is foreign - but it isn't guaranteed that they will have all the information of what goes on (although they're supposed to). There's a lot of bribery from what I understand of Chinese business practices (excluding Hong Kong), and that does not bode well for the quality of construction in anything.


The key difference is this is a huge public infrastructure project, not the small construction works that built in homes, schools, and the like that rarely attract foreign attention anyway. 

I doubt foreign companies working as a contractor for the Beijing subway would sign off complete on their contracts if they did not due the quality checks beforehand. Why would they expose themselves to such a huge legal risk? This is why foreign involvement in these major projects can counter some questionable business practices in the mainland.

After all, Sichuan's houses rarely get international tenders. Why are we comparing those collapses with a big international project such as the Beijing subway? Quite a stretch, isn't it?


----------



## particlez

people are selfish. they look out for themselves. it was easier for various companies to outsource their most labor intensive, environmentally degradating work to the desperate nations with a surfeit of labor. the companies reap higher profits by circumventing our expensive labor and environmental regulations, and most people just place the blame on some supposedly nefarious foreign society.

IF there were one competent, objective governing body in the world, we might be able to enact and enforce minimum standards of conduct. as of now, it's often a race to the bottom.

conversely, if we canadians, americans, europeans etc. were wealthier, we could easily switch to solar on every roof, wind in all the windswept locations, wave in the oceans, geothermal power, and do away with all our fossil fuels. yet we can't. not because the technology does not exist, but because we cannot afford these 'luxuries'. do you see a parallel between this situation and the developing countries with their relatively lax standards?


----------



## hkskyline

TRZ said:


> The knowledge we have now and the globalized environment in which we live today, complete with infrastructure connecting everything to everywhere, is what removes all justification for any kind of excuse for allowing this to repeat itself yet again. It is not unprecedented, you are correct, and it is exactly because it is not unprecedented that it should not be allowed to happen again. It is not hypocritical for us to say "we were wrong when we did this, don't repeat our mistakes." It is nothing but the epitome of immaturity for China or any nation in a similar position (India?) to say "you did it this way 50+ years ago, we have a right to do it the same way." That's just absurd and should not be tolerated, it is not a valid argument in the least.


The industrialization process is dirty. It's an inherent reality. Technology has made the dirty phase shorter and less poisonous, but it is still dirty. China's industrialization is actually not as bad as what the West went through. Beijing and Shanghai haven't gone through the poison smog that London went through in the 19th century. Yes, the environment is at peril, but considering China is lifting 1.3 billion out of poverty, the effects are relatively less than when a much smaller European and American population did the same. We have not yet progressed technologically to completely remove the bad outflows from combustion. Yes, the mistakes of the past are being repeated, but at least now there is a marked reduction in the severity of the problem. As wealth builds and people have enough to eat and get a roof over their heads, this problem will decrease, as what the West has achieved.

I think the West has farmed out the dirty industries long enough to forget how dirty their past was to build up to the present. The dirty work is now done offshore, and if the world needs to be a cleaner place, someone will have to pay the price in the end, and that will ultimately be the consumer.

This isn't an issue of what can be tolerated. I think people's lack of tolerance for the negative effects of rapid growth exist, but I don't think a flood from a freak storm is reasonable enough to ignite the question of whether Beijing subway construction methods are questionable. There isn't enough info out there to make such a conclusion.

Industrialization is a dirty process. It can't be skipped. History will repeat itself. The hope is it can happen as fast as possible. At least now environmentalism is on the back of people's minds. It wasn't the case a hundred years ago. I think that in itself is a major improvement.


----------



## TRZ

particlez said:


> conversely, if we canadians, americans, europeans etc. were wealthier, we could easily switch to solar on every roof, wind in all the windswept locations, wave in the oceans, geothermal power, and do away with all our fossil fuels. yet we can't. not because the technology does not exist, but because we cannot afford these 'luxuries'. do you see a parallel between this situation and the developing countries with their relatively lax standards?


The money actually does exist, it is more a lack of political will (and political favours, blackmail, kickbacks, etc.) that is really at fault for this. 

That said, I agree that a global governing body would simplify things a lot, but the very concept has a lot of complex problem in its own right - and that's putting it lightly.


----------



## particlez

> The money actually does exist, it is more a lack of political will (and political favours, blackmail, kickbacks, etc.) that is really at fault for this


no one said developing countries were lily white. yet even establishing an efficient, non-corrupted governing body takes a while. why else was supposedly clean hong kong (or any other place in history if you go back far enough) basically a corrupt cesspool with choking pollution and labor exploitation until very recent times? it was even governed by an esteemed (at least in western media circles) colonial government. 

and you haven't answered the question. based on your previous messages, you had stated that previous development patterns were a mistake which for the most part, can be avoided now. please give ONE example of a place which developed without labor and/or environmental issues?


----------



## YelloPerilo

TRZ said:


> I wouldn't be as concerned about the pace as I would the business ethic in China, which is discomforting, except for Hong Kong thanks to its days as a British colony (which has a significant impact on their business practices).


Yeah, like forcing a nation to buy drugs, right? Fucking selfrighteous asshole!


----------



## snow is red

I think we are seriously going off-topic, this is senseless.

TRZ, I hope you and other folks here think about Urbanfan89's post No.48.

TRZ, should I remind you that your Japan was not always like this throughout its development, please don't tell me Japan was always corruption free, especially during its industrialization stage.


----------



## particlez

really TRZ, go read up on historical development. it's both hypocritical and implausible to expect poorer nations to easily conform to our arbitrary standards of labor and environment. why don't you get your undies in a bunch because we're still burning coal and oil when it's technologically (but not yet financially) feasible to power everything with non polluting energy sources?

you're sounding like the 19th century eurosnobs who viewed then developing north america as a bunch of atavistic upstarts. how do you come up with crap like a culture of corruption or shady business practices? it's easy for you to cast aspersions onto others, yet you don't acknowledge very similar mindsets here?


----------



## TRZ

YelloPerilo said:


> Yeah, like forcing a nation to buy drugs, right? Fucking selfrighteous asshole!


Wow, you're very refined and articulate I see. What nation and what drugs, and how am I directly connected to any of it?


----------



## TRZ

particlez said:


> no one said developing countries were lily white. yet even establishing an efficient, non-corrupted governing body takes a while. why else was supposedly clean hong kong (or any other place in history if you go back far enough) basically a corrupt cesspool with choking pollution and labor exploitation until very recent times? it was even governed by an esteemed (at least in western media circles) colonial government.


Yeah, times change... one would hope they change for the better, but that isn't always the case, now, is it? That's why debates like these crop up. Just look at the U.S. and its dramatic decline for a great example of how it can go either way for any country, including the supposedly self-proclaimed invincible ones. 



particlez said:


> and you haven't answered the question. based on your previous messages, you had stated that previous development patterns were a mistake which for the most part, can be avoided now. please give ONE example of a place which developed without labor and/or environmental issues?


Because the technologies are too recent for there to be an example yet; you siad it yourself, it takes a while. Your question is absurd in the first place, and you should know, that's why I ignored it, because of the timeline of technological advancement and the time it takes for a nation to develop, it is completely unrealistic to expect there to already be an example.


----------



## TRZ

02tonyl said:


> TRZ, I hope you and other folks here think about Urbanfan89's post No.48.


??? Which point? About Toronto's subways? :?



02tonyl said:


> TRZ, should I remind you that your Japan was not always like this throughout its development, please don't tell me Japan was always corruption free, especially during its industrialization stage.


Well, I never brought Japan into it apart from tectonic forces in the region; which includes Russia and the Koreas as well, am I supposed to address them, too?!hno:

Japan's got big problems itself now; it's work ethic is deteriating quite badly because of left-over side-effects and by-products of the bubble collapse; not many people get properly trained here, and in about 20-30 years, this country is really going to be up the creek economically.

As for Japan's development, that was going on in the 50s through 70s at the same time as the west was making similar mistakes. Again, what is your point? It is about not repeating the same mistakes, you are missing the point.


----------



## YelloPerilo

TRZ said:


> Wow, you're very refined and articulate I see. What nation and what drugs, and how am I directly connected to any of it?


Who the **** cares what a history ignorant thinks of me?! :lol:


----------



## TRZ

particlez said:


> really TRZ, go read up on historical development. it's both hypocritical and implausible to expect poorer nations to easily conform to our arbitrary standards of labor and environment. why don't you get your undies in a bunch because we're still burning coal and oil when it's technologically (but not yet financially) feasible to power everything with non polluting energy sources?


Well, this isn't really arbitrary since there are enough studies out there that can illustrate why one should what how in the departments of labour and environment; we didn't have that a few decades ago, much of it was produced within the last 20 years. This is why there are no examples yet of poorer nations developing in clean fashions or with good (strict) business practices/standards. 
It is financially feasable to power everything with renewable energy; the big problem is political forces, not financial. And yeah, it is a big problem, I never suggested otherwise, so you are out of line to suggest I am singling anybody out.



particlez said:


> you're sounding like the 19th century eurosnobs who viewed then developing north america as a bunch of atavistic upstarts. how do you come up with crap like a culture of corruption or shady business practices? it's easy for you to cast aspersions onto others, yet you don't acknowledge very similar mindsets here?


Because I've dealt with the Chinese in the course of business here and know many others here that have dealt with them more? I have both first hand experience dealing with them myself and am in close contact with people that have other first hand experience with them, and also I hear the same thing from the Chinese people I've met here in Japan. When even the Chinese themselves tell me that there are big problems with China these days, why should I believe you over them?


----------



## TRZ

YelloPerilo said:


> Who the **** cares what a history ignorant thinks of me?! :lol:


Who cares about anything a mindless cussing ego-maniac posts?! :nuts:


----------



## YelloPerilo

TRZ said:


> Who cares about anything a mindless cussing ego-maniac posts?! :nuts:


As if you know what ego-maniac means ... oh right, just go and look at the mirror. :lol:


----------



## TRZ

YelloPerilo said:


> As if you know what ego-maniac means ... oh right, just go and look at the mirror. :lol:


OK, so the definition of ego-maniac, according to you, is written on a mirror, rather than in a dictionary :rofl: You're silly.

Know what a troll looks like? Look in the mirror. (this is the kind of thing you wanted to say, but you are obviously incapable of insulting somebody properly, one might have guessed by your dependency on swear words :baeh3

Hey, I can claim to know astro-physics as long as I don't have to explain anything about it, just like you can claim to know history as long as you don't have to explain anything about it. Obviously you're a waste of time, say hi to the ignore box as it eats you, MUAHAHAHA :eat:


----------



## YelloPerilo

TRZ said:


> OK, so the definition of ego-maniac, according to you, is written on a mirror, rather than in a dictionary :rofl: You're silly.
> 
> Know what a troll looks like? Look in the mirror. (this is the kind of thing you wanted to say, but you are obviously incapable of insulting somebody properly, one might have guessed by your dependency on swear words :baeh3
> 
> Hey, I can claim to know astro-physics as long as I don't have to explain anything about it, just like you can claim to know history as long as you don't have to explain anything about it. Obviously you're a waste of time, say hi to the ignore box as it eats you, MUAHAHAHA :eat:


So many words and still saying nothing ... :lol:


----------



## particlez

> It is financially feasable to power everything with renewable energy; the big problem is political forces, not financial


dude, it's also financial. i calculate finances for an architecture firm. there's no way in hell your average tract house (which is itself a damned waste of resources) in a wealthy city like vancouver or toronto can be economically feasible and saleable if it were built to LEED platinum standards. the very wealthy, who CAN afford all this, could thus look down on all the plebeians and see them as backward. with your logic, that would be ok.

hell, i'm canadian too. and just like you, i've worked in other places, some of which are considered developing nations. i'm saying that the professionals i've dealt with are just as qualified, but the twits who handle money will try to get away with as much as possible. the expat turds who believe in all this stuff about others being backward and prone to corruption are... well, they're a bunch of twits.

TRZ, the fact that you've dealt with self-hating people from developing nations is not surprising. *too bad you're both too prejudiced and lacking in both knowledge and critical thinking to see past it*. that's why you had to make a point about a flooded subway tunnel as emblematic of lower developing world construction standards, a cultural predilection for corruption, and every other dismissive attitude of some assholish national post editorial. you can't even make one consistent assertion except for a condescending attitude towards another culture. a flooded subway tunnel became a pulpit for you to argue against their pathological cultural flaws. if you think of it, you've been racist and irrational. yet because you do not actually have knowledge of the construction process, nor have you actually dealt with financial and oversight issues in developing nations, you can easily justify that, and write out a bunch of blithering messages.

getting back to my point: name ONE developing place which has successfully avoided corruption, labor exploitation, environmental exploitation. you can't, because these issues have pervaded every industry and every developing place. there goes the cultural basis for your assertions.


----------



## UD2

TRZ said:


> Maybe the better question is why doesn't the country where these businesses are based, the U.S. in some of the examples you've mentioned's cases, regulate what countries they can outsource to if they want to sell their product to the domestic market?


My point was very clear in my post, as with any other pervious posts. Maybe you should reread what I've posted.


----------



## urbanfan89

> Because I've dealt with the Chinese in the course of business here and know many others here that have dealt with them more?


Therefore I have the right to say whatever BS about how the Chinese are inherently corrupt and sleazy.



> When even the Chinese themselves tell me that there are big problems with China these days, why should I believe you over them?


So what country with industrialization in full swing does *not* have big problems? Do you prefer if China continued to be ruled by Maoists instead of reformers?

Still haven't addressed my point on how the organization represented in your avatar doesn't give a damn about maintenance, either.


----------



## sarflonlad

TRZ said:


> Too much greed and too little professionalism.


I'm reminded of a friend who works for a major producer of engines and their experience with Chinese lack of professionalism.

The company in question tendered the design of a new engine part. Basically the Europeans, the Japanese and the Americans all said 'this is impossible. it can't be done... however if you change X part we could do it'. Come along the Chinese engineering company and they say 'We can do this'.

The bit about 'changing X part' was a fault in the tender process. An error went out in the tender of design. So the Europeans. Americans and Japanese all spotted a mistake in the design. The Chinese company however were happy to take money to do something they couldn't even be bothered to check was possible.


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## particlez

oh yeah, keep reminding yourselves that the 'developing' place is inherently unprofessional. you said it about the americans a hundred years ago, the japanese 50 years ago, and now there's a new group of upstart hicks to disparage.


----------



## AlexS2000

particlez said:


> oh yeah, keep reminding yourselves that the 'developing' place is inherently unprofessional. you said it about the americans a hundred years ago, the japanese 50 years ago, and now there's a new group of upstart hicks to disparage.


You can add the Korean, the Taiwanese and many other upstart who has a humble start but through effort and planning manage to proves their critic wrong!


----------



## sarflonlad

particlez said:


> oh yeah, keep reminding yourselves that the 'developing' place is inherently unprofessional. you said it about the americans a hundred years ago, the japanese 50 years ago, and now there's a new group of upstart hicks to disparage.


Well all my dealings with Eastern European and Indian clients are of the upmost professional standards. 

China and the Chinese better get used to more scrutiny as it becomes wealthier and more powerful - particularly as most people have reservations about its government.


----------



## particlez

oh yeah, you're sounding like a genius.


----------



## particlez

what's really ironic is that you and the other critic TRZ latch onto any and all bad news (a la fox news) about a supposed enemy, while overlooking very similar flaws in ourselves, and allied regimes.

have you even been to eastern europe or india? developing nations ALL possess overwhelmingly similar issues regarding corruption and governance. of course, i don't expect you to come up with a cogent argument.


----------



## snow is red

sarflonlad said:


> Well all my dealings with Eastern European and Indian clients are of the upmost professional standards.
> 
> China and the Chinese better get used to more scrutiny as it becomes wealthier and more powerful - particularly as most people have reservations about its government.


And your friend's experience with them ? 

Do you deal with Chinese clients ?

What sector are you working in ?


----------



## TRZ

particlez said:


> dude, it's also financial. i calculate finances for an architecture firm. there's no way in hell your average tract house (which is itself a damned waste of resources) in a wealthy city like vancouver or toronto can be economically feasible and saleable if it were built to LEED platinum standards. the very wealthy, who CAN afford all this, could thus look down on all the plebeians and see them as backward. with your logic, that would be ok.


I'm saying that it is political because the political forces could set into place mechanics to remove the financial barriers; there is enough to go around, especially considering the massive surpluses that governments both provincial and federal are generating these days while some are simultaneously lowering taxes across the board. Despite the slowdown in States, Canada's economy is fairing remarkably well. A system of wealth redistribution, likely through some environmental taxation scheme as well as support from general revenue, could fund a large-scale program that makes it affordable and event profitable for people to convert their homes. Dense urban centres would be more complicated (to renovate anyway), but they're already less offensive than the abyss of the subdivision.



particlez said:


> hell, i'm canadian too. and just like you, i've worked in other places, some of which are considered developing nations. i'm saying that the professionals i've dealt with are just as qualified, but the twits who handle money will try to get away with as much as possible. the expat turds who believe in all this stuff about others being backward and prone to corruption are... well, they're a bunch of twits.


If your point is anyone can be corrupt, I agree. There's enough stories in the news about such from Canada, U.S., Japan, U.K., and pretty much any developed nation, but these cases stand out because it isn't widespread. However in some countries, like China or Russia, they're notorized for widespread corruption.



particlez said:


> TRZ, the fact that you've dealt with self-hating people from developing nations is not surprising. *too bad you're both too prejudiced and lacking in both knowledge and critical thinking to see past it*. that's why you had to make a point about a flooded subway tunnel as emblematic of lower developing world construction standards, a cultural predilection for corruption, and every other dismissive attitude of some assholish national post editorial. you can't even make one consistent assertion except for a condescending attitude towards another culture. a flooded subway tunnel became a pulpit for you to argue against their pathological cultural flaws. if you think of it, you've been racist and irrational. yet because you do not actually have knowledge of the construction process, nor have you actually dealt with financial and oversight issues in developing nations, you can easily justify that, and write out a bunch of blithering messages.


Talk about running off on a senseless rant, you should not be lecturing others. 
First off, I don't read the national post, nor do I expect to in future. Second, the flooded subway is not the only thing I am basing this on, I've mentioned several other references already both in the news and in my own business dealings as well as social contacts from China. The views and experiences are consistent, and thus by extension, so is my argument. Third, I do have knowledge about the construction process; I work in the industry, similar to you (I'm not an estimator though). Fourth, this is not racism because this has nothing to do with stereotyping; lots of sources of info and lots of people's experience all point to the same thing. Fifth, check out how worked up you are about nothing and you tell me who's irrational.



particlez said:


> getting back to my point: name ONE developing place which has successfully avoided corruption, labor exploitation, environmental exploitation. you can't, because these issues have pervaded every industry and every developing place. there goes the cultural basis for your assertions.


As I already stated previously, the technology is too recent to have generated an example since development takes several years. 

However, part of it in this is political, but not only the politics of the developing nation, part of it is the politics of the already developed nations, too. 

The technology and know-how exists, and the kinds of international training for such to become real has been around for a long time; the Brits did it with the Japanese in the late 1800s when they taught them the technology of railways (and in the end the student surpasses the master). 

It is possible, but as usual, politics gums up the works on both sides(developed and developing).


----------



## TRZ

UD2 said:


> My point was very clear in my post, as with any other pervious posts. Maybe you should reread what I've posted.


You're quoting my response to a post that wasn't yours, nor have you replied yet to my last post where I replied to you. Oh well, knowing your posting history, not suprised you'd be so non-sensical.hno:


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## TRZ

urbanfan89 said:


> Therefore I have the right to say whatever BS about how the Chinese are inherently corrupt and sleazy.


How is it BS when it is first hand from the mouth of the Chinese and from my own first-hand experience with the Chinese? I didn't make my experience up. The quality of work and the level of professionalism from the Chinese in my business dealings is not very flattering. It isn't all from one source either.




urbanfan89 said:


> So what country with industrialization in full swing does *not* have big problems? Do you prefer if China continued to be ruled by Maoists instead of reformers?


China isn't ruled by reformers today, sorry, try again.



urbanfan89 said:


> Still haven't addressed my point on how the organization represented in your avatar doesn't give a damn about maintenance, either.


Actually, I did address it earlier before you even posted your question;



TRZ said:


> Well, my hometown's subway network has dealt with massive blizzards, tornado-brewing winds, heavy rain, extreme heat, extreme cold, and a massive fire in the system. That system is quite the trooper, and I hold it as a standard as do others in the industry. It isn't the most aesthetic, but it's sound.


----------



## TRZ

particlez said:


> what's really ironic is that you and the other critic TRZ latch onto any and all bad news (a la fox news) about a supposed enemy, while overlooking very similar flaws in ourselves, and allied regimes.


TRZ doesn't watch FOX. The same bad news is in all news media whether left-wing or right-wing. Lead painted toys... poisonous hotel toothpaste... subway construction cave-ins... knock-off fly-ash in concrete for high-speed rail track-bed... yeah, this flooded subway is really the only thing that has ever gone wrong in China :nuts: Give me a break.


----------



## particlez

right TRZ, you're a professional, and you're unbiased enough to see one flooded tunnel as a symbol of one nation and its pathological flaws with political and personal corruption and incompetence. 

of course, you're also the histrionic cheerleader for every damned transit development in toronto. strange that you've never cited corruption and incompetence as a factor in that city's messed up infrastructure. 

just how do you get the time to log online 24/7 and argue? especially when you can't even make a point?


----------



## sarflonlad

particlez said:


> what's really ironic is that you and the other critic TRZ latch onto any and all bad news (a la fox news) about a supposed enemy, while overlooking very similar flaws in ourselves, and allied regimes.
> 
> have you even been to eastern europe or india? developing nations ALL possess overwhelmingly similar issues regarding corruption and governance. of course, i don't expect you to come up with a cogent argument.


Never watch Fox news, never have done. 

I see flaws in my own country and dealings with other countries... but when it comes to China the flaws are generally magnified. Primarily because of it's size. Unavoidable. The Chinese also have outdated views on the West and like to get all uppity about Western criticism, labelling it "arrogant" and "biased". Believe me, I lived there, I know.

All of concern that was presented by me here was: The pace at which China is building infrastructure but with little regard for quality. ie. Tunnels flooding in a newly built subway. This concern is reflected too by Chinese politicians - so I'm not quite sure what's wrong with pointing out the failure in building and planning here.

Secondly I also presented anecdotal evidence of the pace of greed and lack of professionalism in China. Other people who work with the Chinese agree. Again, the Chinese market is larger than that of India or Eastern Europe - so the frequency of bad experiences will be greater. 

not quite so sure why you're so enraged here!


----------



## urbanfan89

> How is it BS when it is first hand from the mouth of the Chinese and from my own first-hand experience with the Chinese? I didn't make my experience up. The quality of work and the level of professionalism from the Chinese in my business dealings is not very flattering. It isn't all from one source either.


I dunno...maybe because professional education is still not up to world-class levels there (judging from my parents' experience there)?

And how fast do you want a society to advance in just 20 years? Back then everything was still state-controlled.



> China isn't ruled by reformers today, sorry, try again.


Fine. Resuscitate Mao and find out his view about modern China.


----------



## snow is red

sarflonlad said:


> Never watch Fox news, never have done.
> 
> I see flaws in my own country and dealings with other countries... but when it comes to China the flaws are generally magnified. Primarily because of it's size. Unavoidable. The Chinese also have outdated views on the West and like to get all uppity about Western criticism, labelling it "arrogant" and "biased". Believe me, I lived there, I know.
> 
> All of concern that was presented by me here was: The pace at which China is building infrastructure but with little regard for quality. ie. Tunnels flooding in a newly built subway. This concern is reflected too by Chinese politicians - so I'm not quite sure what's wrong with pointing out the failure in building and planning here.
> 
> Secondly I also presented anecdotal evidence of the pace of greed and lack of professionalism in China. Other people who work with the Chinese agree. Again, the Chinese market is larger than that of India or Eastern Europe - so the frequency of bad experiences will be greater.
> 
> not quite so sure why you're so enraged here!



I am not sure if water pouring in from the entrance due to torrential rain can be counted as a quality problem, and obviously it is not a leakage. 

You're right, even Chinese officials themselves repeat that points many times that the quality issue cannot be overlooked and need to be considered together with the fast pace.

My intention is to keep this thread purely about China but since you brought in Eastern Europe and India, then I am wondering if the level of corruption is any better than China. You never know and you have to be there physically to feel it. And since your friend dealt with the Chinese , then maybe he has dealt with the Eastern European and Indian too ? 


You lived in China before, right ? (Shanghai to be more specific), so did you deal with any Chinese clients ? What are your experiences with them ? (so far you only tell us one experience from your friend) What sector do you work in ?

Seriously I think sometimes the world media focuses on China too much and they tend to forget that there is still a developing world out there for them to explore.


----------



## particlez

dude sarflonlad; i've had questionable experiences in china too. only i don't use these experiences to justify a blanket condemnation of everyone else in that out-group. i've also had to work with asses from developed nations. homeland security and the planning department of the city of los angeles immediately spring to mind when it comes to incompetence and corruption respectively. yet i'm not flying into LAX fearing the very worst from a supposedly nefarious place and culture. read through the thread. that's what TRZ's attitude in a nutshell.


----------



## TRZ

particlez said:


> right TRZ, you're a professional, and you're unbiased enough to see one flooded tunnel as a symbol of one nation and its pathological flaws with political and personal corruption and incompetence.


You go ahead and ignore the other slew of problems plus my own personal business interaction I listed last time I posted et:



particlez said:


> of course, you're also the histrionic cheerleader for every damned transit development in toronto. strange that you've never cited corruption and incompetence as a factor in that city's messed up infrastructure.


Well, you might not have noticed, but Toronto isn't what this thread is about; it's about Beijing's subway. I could go into tons of problems on Toronto's system past and present... but it is still sound with no cave-ins and floodings. So what's your point? Hey, you ignored the other posts so obviously you can't make a point.



particlez said:


> just how do you get the time to log online 24/7 and argue? especially when you can't even make a point?


You don't think I'm making a point because it is obvious you aren't reading my posts. As for 24/7... didn't I take DAYS to reply here? :lol:

Good point though; why should I spend any time arguing with you? You are obviously far too self-obsorbed trying to prop-up China's image in vain that you wouldn't be interested in a rational argument - you're just a troll. :wave: Have fun in ignore land.


----------



## TRZ

urbanfan89 said:


> I dunno...maybe because professional education is still not up to world-class levels there (judging from my parents' experience there)?


If they want to do business; they should be capable of doing business. My experience is they don't get it, yet. That is the gist of my argument.



urbanfan89 said:


> And how fast do you want a society to advance in just 20 years? Back then everything was still state-controlled.


The fact that 20 years is a relatively short time is exactly the point I was making to particlez; why don't you go shut down particlez's BS argument on other examples of developing nations when the time period is totally impossible? I never disagreed the 20 years argument you're making now.





urbanfan89 said:


> Fine. Resuscitate Mao and find out his view about modern China.


In the last so-called "elections" they decided that there were not going to be any changes in the system. That's not reform like you claim. Your blowing a fit complete with senseless rhetoric is proving nothing.


----------



## hkskyline

Up to now I still don't see how a flood during a freak storm can be extrapolated into a blanket perception on questionable construction practices. It'll take a much bigger propaganda machine to brainwash people into believing so!


----------



## snow is red

Exactly hkskyline, I don't know how people can say that the flood from the entrance due to bad rain is quality issue. 

But anyway beside that I do really think TRZ has good valid points, he was just pointing out his experiences. It's actually quite interesting that he shares his experience with us. At the moment, China does need people to help her point out the dark side of the society. I think years under communism and poverty make people more susceptible to greed when the open door policy was put in place. But I don't think this "gold rush" period will last forever.

Different people intepret things differently, some people may say it's good criticism, some say racist steretype, some say mindless bashing. 

The only thing I don't agree here is the flood from the entrance is counted as a quality issue. 

PS : Don't you think this thread is already too long and too out of topic ?


----------



## slashcruise

Excellent pics of the stations just what was expected from China.....All Europes stations looks like penuts in front of these stations....


----------



## snow is red

*Olympics: Beijing to open three new subway lines by Sunday*

2008-07-17 


BEIJING, July 17 (Xinhua) -- Beijing will open three new subway lines for trial operation by Sunday to ease traffic and cope with the passenger surge during the Olympic Games. 

Beginning on Sunday vehicles with even and odd number plates will have to run on alternate days on Beijing's roads, and an additional 4 million people will resort to the public transport system. 

"When some drivers are forced to stop driving on Monday morning, they might find it equally convenient to take one of the subway lines," said Zhou Zhengyu, Beijing Municipal Committee of Communications deputy head, at a press conference here on Thursday. 

The new links, built at a total cost of 22.3 billion yuan (3.2 billion U.S. dollars), will increase the number of subway lines in the Chinese capital to eight and the total length of track to 200 kilometers from the current 142 km. 

The trains used for the new lines can carry 1,424 passengers each, or 344 more than those on other lines, said Zhou. 

The Airport Line links the downtown areas with Terminal 3, a new terminal building at the Beijing Capital International Airport in the northeastern suburbs. Trains will be running at an average interval of 15 minutes, and the 28-km trip takes about 20 minutes, he added. 

A public hearing early this month by the National Development and Reform Commission decided a reasonable fare for a subway ride to the airport should be around 25 yuan. 

Beijing subway operators have estimated a daily maximum of 30,000 passenger trips on the Airport Line during the Aug. 8-24 Olympic Games, said Liu Jian, deputy head of Beijing Mass Transit Railway Operation Corp. Ltd. 

Subway builders have set aside room in the Dongzhimen Railway Station, the downtown end of the Airport Line, where in the future, passengers will be able to check in for their flights and have their luggage delivered, said Zhou. 

But no time-table is immediately available as to when the check-in counters will be set up at the downtown subway station. 

In another development, a 4.5-km Olympic Branch Line will carry spectators to the main Games' venues in northern Beijing, and Line No. 10 will run 25 km northwest to southeast in the shape of a right angle. 

But before and during the Games, this branch line will open exclusively to participants to the Games, including athletes, coaches, journalists and others, and spectators holding tickets of the day, said Zhou. 

"The passengers all need to receive security checks on the ground before they take the Olympic subway to the Games' facilities," he said. 

Subway operators estimate the Olympic line would be transporting a maximum of 220,000 passengers daily during the Games. Line No. 10, meanwhile, will probably handle 850,000 passenger trips a day in maximum. 

In the meantime, Beijing has been upgrading its two old subway lines, Line No. 1 and 2, to make their facilities air-conditioned and wheelchair accessible. 

Yet by the Olympics' opening, some trains on Line No. 1, the city's oldest that runs east to west through the city center, may still run without air-conditioner, said Liu Jian. 

Beijing officials said last month that to facilitate public transport during the Olympics, city authorities would increase the number of buses and subway trains and extend their daily operating hours. In addition, 66,000 taxis would provide 24-hour service. 

About 2 million domestic tourists and 450,000 overseas tourists will visit Beijing during the Olympics, the Beijing Games organizing committee and Beijing municipal tourism bureau has forecast. 

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-07/17/content_8562618.htm


----------



## particlez

yes TRZ, western influence made hong kong corruption free. if you believe that, you're smoking some good stuff. with hong kong, you can go back 30 years into its annals, and discover the british administered laissez faire colony to have bribes and kickbacks flowing to civil servants' accounts in bermuda. the anti-corruption drive took place much later in hong kong than it did in britain itself, and it wasn't wholly successful either. kinda kills your arguments about corruption being endemic to culture and/or time.

right now your arguments are based on some jerks you've dealt with, or stories about other people. that's like some guy disliking blacks or jews because of bad business dealings. yes i know you're a wound up kinda person. but at least know what you're talking about first?


----------



## gakki_smiles

hkskyline said:


> Up to now I still don't see how a flood during a freak storm can be extrapolated into a blanket perception on questionable construction practices.


I think someone here needs mental theraphy, he sees none of us can  
the best way of dealing with such a pathetic paranoid is simple, just ignore.


----------



## hkth

02tonyl said:


> *Olympics: Beijing to open three new subway lines by Sunday*
> 
> 2008-07-17
> 
> 
> BEIJING, July 17 (Xinhua) -- Beijing will open three new subway lines for trial operation by Sunday to ease traffic and cope with the passenger surge during the Olympic Games.
> 
> Beginning on Sunday vehicles with even and odd number plates will have to run on alternate days on Beijing's roads, and an additional 4 million people will resort to the public transport system.
> 
> "When some drivers are forced to stop driving on Monday morning, they might find it equally convenient to take one of the subway lines," said Zhou Zhengyu, Beijing Municipal Committee of Communications deputy head, at a press conference here on Thursday.
> 
> The new links, built at a total cost of 22.3 billion yuan (3.2 billion U.S. dollars), will increase the number of subway lines in the Chinese capital to eight and the total length of track to 200 kilometers from the current 142 km.
> 
> The trains used for the new lines can carry 1,424 passengers each, or 344 more than those on other lines, said Zhou.
> 
> The Airport Line links the downtown areas with Terminal 3, a new terminal building at the Beijing Capital International Airport in the northeastern suburbs. Trains will be running at an average interval of 15 minutes, and the 28-km trip takes about 20 minutes, he added.
> 
> A public hearing early this month by the National Development and Reform Commission decided a reasonable fare for a subway ride to the airport should be around 25 yuan.
> 
> Beijing subway operators have estimated a daily maximum of 30,000 passenger trips on the Airport Line during the Aug. 8-24 Olympic Games, said Liu Jian, deputy head of Beijing Mass Transit Railway Operation Corp. Ltd.
> 
> Subway builders have set aside room in the Dongzhimen Railway Station, the downtown end of the Airport Line, where in the future, passengers will be able to check in for their flights and have their luggage delivered, said Zhou.
> 
> But no time-table is immediately available as to when the check-in counters will be set up at the downtown subway station.
> 
> In another development, a 4.5-km Olympic Branch Line will carry spectators to the main Games' venues in northern Beijing, and Line No. 10 will run 25 km northwest to southeast in the shape of a right angle.
> 
> But before and during the Games, this branch line will open exclusively to participants to the Games, including athletes, coaches, journalists and others, and spectators holding tickets of the day, said Zhou.
> 
> "The passengers all need to receive security checks on the ground before they take the Olympic subway to the Games' facilities," he said.
> 
> Subway operators estimate the Olympic line would be transporting a maximum of 220,000 passengers daily during the Games. Line No. 10, meanwhile, will probably handle 850,000 passenger trips a day in maximum.
> 
> In the meantime, Beijing has been upgrading its two old subway lines, Line No. 1 and 2, to make their facilities air-conditioned and wheelchair accessible.
> 
> Yet by the Olympics' opening, some trains on Line No. 1, the city's oldest that runs east to west through the city center, may still run without air-conditioner, said Liu Jian.
> 
> Beijing officials said last month that to facilitate public transport during the Olympics, city authorities would increase the number of buses and subway trains and extend their daily operating hours. In addition, 66,000 taxis would provide 24-hour service.
> 
> About 2 million domestic tourists and 450,000 overseas tourists will visit Beijing during the Olympics, the Beijing Games organizing committee and Beijing municipal tourism bureau has forecast.
> 
> http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-07/17/content_8562618.htm


Open today! kay:

Xinhua News:
Beijing opens 3 new subway lines ahead of Olympics


----------



## snow is red

BEIJING, July 19 -- People in Beijing can start enjoying three more subway lines starting this weekend. The new lines will greatly expand the capacity of the city's underground transport, easing street congestion and making travel a little easier for the upcoming Olympics. 

After seven years of construction, three new subway lines in the capital will be put in to service this weekend. 

Line 10 runs through Beijing's most prosperous eastern and northern parts. It's 24.6 kilometers long and includes 22 stations. 

The Airport Express Line, with just four stops, is 28 kilometers long. The 20-minute ride will be a boon for passengers flying in and out of Beijing's Capital Airport. 

And the Olympic Branch Line runs through the complex of stadiums, gymnasiums and Olympic parks. It will provide direct service for the Olympic Games, with one stop specifically for the opening ceremony venue. 

Liu Jian, Vice General Manager, Beijing Subway Operation Co., said, "We expect Line 10 to transport up to 850 thousand people every day during the Olympic period. The Olympic Branch Line will transport 30,000 people, and the Airport Line will carry 300 thousand passengers every day. We've put the necessary services in place, including emergency, first aid, auto ticketing and security systems." 

The three new lines have been designed in a Chinese style, with Olympic features. The trains are spacious and air-conditioned. 

To encourage private car owners to take the subway, Beijing's traffic authorities have constructed big parking lots near four major subway stations, which can hold more than six million vehicles. And to improve efficiency, the frequency of subway trains will be adjusted according to passenger volumes. During rush hour, trains will run every two and a half minutes.










http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gKkw1l98t88IIIGEZdnpyqGTklnA


----------



## foxmulder

nice to hear, parking space for 6 million cars..! :| 

I like subways, more picture?


----------



## quashlo

02tonyl said:


> To encourage private car owners to take the subway, Beijing's traffic authorities have constructed big parking lots near four major subway stations, which can hold more than six million vehicles.


I have severe doubts about this figure... It can't be right. That's 1.5 million per station. How would you fit that much parking next to a station? Seriously, you'd step out and see nothing but parking structures in all directions for quite some distance, even if you try and tandem/valet/stack the heck out of it.

Even if it were true, this is not a good direction to take for a city and system of this size. At that point, you're not decreasing car travel, you're simply shifting it elsewhere and allowing people to live further out while still forcing them to drive everywhere. This sounds like post-war American metro systems (San Francisco BART, Atlanta MARTA, DC METRO) on steriods... hno:


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## foxmulder

of course it is not correct, man.


----------



## UD2

quashlo said:


> I have severe doubts about this figure... It can't be right. That's 1.5 million per station. How would you fit that much parking next to a station? Seriously, you'd step out and see nothing but parking structures in all directions for quite some distance, even if you try and tandem/valet/stack the heck out of it.
> 
> Even if it were true, this is not a good direction to take for a city and system of this size. At that point, you're not decreasing car travel, you're simply shifting it elsewhere and allowing people to live further out while still forcing them to drive everywhere. This sounds like post-war American metro systems (San Francisco BART, Atlanta MARTA, DC METRO) on steriods... hno:


I'm thinking it might be 60 thousand. Beijing only have around 4 million motorized vehicles.


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## quashlo

^^Yes, I agree. Still pretty high, but much more reasonable. :lol:


----------



## cristof

more pics plz??


----------



## Scion

* Beijing subway seizes up as traffic taken off road*

One of Beijing's most important subway lines seized up on Monday when the mass of passengers forced workers to close off entrances for safety on the first working day of pre-Olympic traffic restrictions. Passengers were being allowed off Line 2, which runs in a loop around central Beijing, but not on to it. At least one major transfer station, at Jianguomen, was closed.

"There is a big crush of passengers. We've had to close the line for safety reasons," said a subway worker, standing in front of locked gates at the Fuxingmen station, a transfer point for Line 1.

The subway company was not immediately available for comment.

Monday marked the first working day of emergency traffic curbs that aim to take half of all cars off the road by utilizing an odd-even number plate system. Streets were noticeably quieter, but still busy during the morning rush hour.

Under the new rules, which began on Sunday, cars are banned on alternate days depending on their license plate number and most official cars have been impounded. Only taxis, buses and Olympic vehicles are exempt.

The government hopes to take around 60 percent of the city's 3.3 million cars off the roads, the official Xinhua agency reported, and reduce emissions by two-thirds over the two months until the end of the Paralympic Games in mid-September.

The city's chronic pollution has been one of the biggest headaches for Beijing Olympic Games organizers, who are banking on the car bans and last minute factory closures to bring blue skies and easy breathing for athletes.

Three new subway lines opened over the weekend, including an express link to the airport, to help take up the burden from the traffic controls.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080721/wl_nm/china_traffic_dc_1;_ylt=Ak2JuksxeVnLIHYoHYz7AcdPzWQA


----------



## hkskyline

*Residents laud convenience of city's newest subway lines *
20 July 2008
South China Morning Post

Beijingers poured into stations of two of the city's three new subway lines yesterday afternoon to hail the start of services.

"We welcome the newly opened Line 10 and the Airport Express with the same enthusiasm as we welcome the upcoming Beijing Olympic Games," said Cao Fengge, a 75-year-old retiree in Tongzhou district, in the eastern part of Beijing.

Mr Cao said the new line would make it easy for him to visit the Fragrant Hills and other scenic spots in the western part of the capital.

"Line 10 runs 25km from Haidian in the western part of Beijing to the central business district, not far from Tongzhou. It's like a long-awaited shortcut for me," he said.

Mr Cao said it usually took him more than two hours to reach the Summer Palace, a former imperial garden, by bus from his home.

"Going to the imperial-garden-turned-park to relax my mind and keep fit is a must for me each week," he said.

"Now I need less than an hour {hellip} The newly opened line saves me time."

Video camera in hand, Hu Dajie, a 52-year-old bus driver, also joined the crowds swarming on to the platform at Line 10's Guomao station ahead of the 2pm opening.

Many of the people standing on the platform raised their cameras to record the celebratory scene as the first Line 10 subway train pulled into the station.

"I just want to get on to the first train to take a look at the brand-new carriages. Also, I will shoot what the train is like with my video camera, so that my family can see," said Mr Hu.

On the Airport Express, which traverses the 28km from Dongzhimen station in the city centre to the Capital Airport's new Terminal 3 every 15 minutes, many passengers said they appreciated the attractive interior of the subway carriages.

"The white walls and light-blue seats create a cosy atmosphere for passengers. I like the design," said Xu Songhua, a passenger preparing to fly to Yunnan province .

"If I take a taxi from my house I have to pay 70 to 80 yuan. But the ticket price for the Airport Express is just 25 yuan [HK$28.50]. It's good news for us because it's relatively cheap," he said.

"Also, I don't have to worry about traffic jams on the highway."

However, the day was not without criticism.

"I don't agree with Mr Xu, because I am not a plane passenger," said a man in his 40s.

"I am an employee at the airport and I commute from downtown. I think the ticket price is too high for me. Can't the government provide a favourable Airport Express ticket price for commuters like me?"

Other people complained that the luggage racks on the Airport Express train were too narrow, and that there were too few armrests on Line 10 carriages.


----------



## snow is red

cristof said:


> more pics plz??


Here :


----------



## fishcatdogbird

SAHWEEEEEEEEEEEEEET! Looks fantastic, hopefully they build more so the air quality gets even better! great investment for future generations!


----------



## Anekdote

Well, that picture scares me a bit. But the design at all looks actually not bad compared to other Chinese mainland metro systems.


----------



## Dale

I do believe that I could find my way around in Bejing better than Moscow. Not that other countries are obligated to use English, but it does seem that the Chinese cities are rather generous with English signage.


----------



## Skybean

Toronto's system is 50 years behind.


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## Dale

I'm surprised that those pretty girls didn't Kung Fu 02 for taking all those photos.


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## bonivison

some stations are really nice
very cultural and traditional and fantastic
love Beijing
A city full of art!


----------



## xizhimen

at a lot of beijing subway stations you can see this blue metal container made of strong thick steel,it is for disposal of explosives and hazardous chemicals,once they are found,they will be put into the container and the lid will be fastened to make sure that nobody would get hurt.


----------



## ina555

^^now I know what it is used for
we discussed that thing's function the last time we took the subway,but none of us was right:lol:


----------



## xizhimen

> Originally Posted by city_thing View Post
> This photo is from Hong Kong, not Beijing. It's the pedestrian connection between the Airport Express and MTR Central station.


i m not very sure about this one,here is the original link of this photo.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/1582211236/in/set-72157602440913459/


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## jlshyang

wow. China is definitely booming!


----------



## xizhimen

beijing's metro card is very useful,you can use it taking buses,subway,taxi and buying things in a lot of stores,the uniform subway fare is 2 yuan (30 cents usd),the cheapest in china.


----------



## isaidso

Looks great!


----------



## oliver999

nice job, china has bright future.


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## bonivison

Now, Beijing has nearly 10 lines under construction
once completed, the transportation will be much more convenient
But during this period, the road situation around the subways that are being constructed will be boring!


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## googleabcd

The reason why the metro ticket in Beijing is the cheapest in China is because it has direct support from the central government, e.g., the tax contributed by other cities and provinces in China. In addition, the tax of most Chinese state own companies are counted into Beijing's GDP while actually most of the revenues and profits of these state own companies come from other provinces.

One of my friends just returned from Beijing last month and she didn't like Beijing that much, still lots of dirty places with whole bunch of rude people. Also the national bird net stadium and national opera are quite disappointed



xizhimen said:


> beijing's metro card is very useful,you can use it taking buses,subway,taxi and buying things in a lot of stores,the uniform subway fare is 2 yuan (30 cents usd),the cheapest in china.


----------



## xizhimen

those are baseless accusation,beijing's transportations are subsidized by the city finance,not from the central government.every city has their own problems and beijing is not an exception.but in terms of pro public and equality,beijing is the best among all chinese cities.



> 北京市今年拨款近120亿元补贴公共交通


http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2009-01-17/143317065026.shtml


----------



## christos-greece

xizhimen said:


> beijing's metro card is very useful,you can use it taking buses,subway,taxi and buying things in a lot of stores,the uniform subway fare is 2 yuan (30 cents usd),the cheapest in china.


It is very cheep... WoW!


----------



## touchring

ina555 said:


> ^^now I know what it is used for
> we discussed that thing's function the last time we took the subway,but none of us was right:lol:




what is it? some sort of container for bom?


----------



## xizhimen

yes,it is


----------



## big-dog

xizhimen said:


> *Beijing aiming for world's longest subway system*
> 
> from Radio Australia
> 
> Beijing is set to overtake London as the city with the longest subway system in the world, with China's capital planning to stretch its subway rail to more than 500 kilometres by 2012.
> ---------------------------
> according to the latest report,13 new subway lines will be in operation by 2012,and near 10 new lines are under construction now in the city.


Shanghai will keep Beijing from achieving this goal.


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## bonivison

Yes, you can take all the lines(except the airport express), and take off at any station, only 2 Yuan.


----------



## yyll8625

Although I am chinese, I want to say, beijing is very very very very very very very very shit!!! beijing and shanghai should go to hell!!! 

your luxury is build on the blood and sweat of the other cities' people in china!! beijing people get plenty of tax from the whole country, but waste the money just to beijing and shanghai, how you can just put so much money to these two cities?? I believe someday the chinese people will finally have a war with you no matter your ugly crackdown!!

and here ,I wan to say ,in china ,at least more than 50% poor chinese we do not hope to have a luxury 2008 olympics game, but beijing is very cheeky to say all of chinese welcome this luxury game. we welcome olympics game ,but we do not hope its luxury, the beijing is very very very cheeky to waste our tax!! beijing and shanghai are twin shit!! do you know why , because our chairman and most of the officers come from these two cities or ever live there or their relatives there.


----------



## bonivison

yyll8625 said:


> Although I am chinese, I want to say, beijing is very very very very very very very very shit!!! beijing and shanghai should go to hell!!!
> 
> your luxury is build on the blood and sweat of the other cities' people in china!! beijing people get plenty of tax from the whole country, but waste the money just to beijing and shanghai, how you can just put so much money to these two cities?? I believe someday the chinese people will finally have a war with you no matter your ugly crackdown!!
> 
> and here ,I wan to say ,in china ,at least more than 50% poor chinese we do not hope to have a luxury 2008 olympics game, but beijing is very cheeky to say all of chinese welcome this luxury game. we welcome olympics game ,but we do not hope its luxury, the beijing is very very very cheeky to waste our tax!! beijing and shanghai are twin shit!! do you know why , because our chairman and most of the officers come from these two cities or ever live there or their relatives there.


:lol:Ignorant!
Do you know how many huge projects are under construction in Tianjin, Shenyang, Chongqing, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, etc.? Do you know how many cities in China are building big subway systems? 
*and here ,I wan to say ,in china ,at least more than 50% poor chinese we do not hope to have a luxury 2008 olympics game, but beijing is very cheeky to say all of chinese welcome this luxury game. *
Not hard to see, you are lying! You lier!


----------



## yyll8625

bonivison said:


> :lol:Ignorant!
> Do you know how many huge projects are under construction in Tianjin, Shenyang, Chongqing, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, etc.? Do you know how many cities in China are building big subway systems?
> *and here ,I wan to say ,in china ,at least more than 50% poor chinese we do not hope to have a luxury 2008 olympics game, but beijing is very cheeky to say all of chinese welcome this luxury game. *
> Not hard to see, you are lying! You lier!


I lier?????? you break wind, even you are an officer , I must tell the foreigners the truth, if you are chinese, pls go to a famouse chinese justice website tianya.cn to see how many people to welcome a luxury olympics??? , and how the people complain the beijing gov just put plenty of money to beijing and shanghai, these two cities are bloodsucker!!, come on , do not transfer the topic , no matter how many huge projects are under construction in the other cities , they just built them by their own finance!!!! not like beijing and shanghai these two shit only know to suck blood from other cities!!!! (except some very poor area, its right to help them to develop.) 

actually right now in china most of the common people is still very poor, (if you are an officer ,then not including you), but the beijing and shanghai want to stack the millions of gold into their cities. then tell the foreigns to see how sucessful we are!!! you are lier!!!! you are blind to ignore the huge quantity people in china still waiting for money to support them. even we work hard we get less, but the beijing gov take out plenty of tax from us to enjoy their luxury , beijing and shanghai are not bloodsucker, then are what???? its funny , here you are pround beijing has the most luxury subway , but china is still poor (i mean most of places, except beijing and shanghai), the rich country people did not die when they use the economic subway but not luxury one!!!!!


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## MightyBoy

"Although I am chinese, want to say, beijing is very shit!!! beijing and shanghai should go to hell!!!" 
First you should go to hell, coz your chinese. Your debate doesn't make sense. If without this enornomous projects, how these poor ppls can make money? How there can survived and make money to built their hometown.. I agree poor ppls still alot in China, but this is the process. It is not easy for 1.3 billion ppl to transform to middle class for 30years of reform.


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## MightyBoy

then tell the foreigns to see how sucessful we are!!! you are lier!!!! you are blind to ignore the huge quantity people in china still waiting for money to support them. even we work hard we get less said:


> Do you think foreign care what happen in China? There only care what project there can get in China.. Again create jobs..helping poor ppls
> If you are Chinese you should admit your Country is successful, compare to others developing country.. "Man, made in China". everyone is using it. Poor ppls are always a major issues in China, India, Africa, Vietnam. How to solve it? Create jobs, Boost the economy.. Politic stability. Shanghai is a financial hub and beijing is the Capital. What do u expect? Beijing look shit, and shanghai look crap. Maybe is true if you are jobless there now. These 2 cities help China to attract foreigns to come, n FDI to others poor Cities n again create jobs. Thanks


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## drunkenmunkey888

Don't think Beijing will be the largest in the world, or even China for that matter. Isn't Shanghai's subway system planned to be the largest in the world and will be over 500 km by 2012 also?


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## Aan

great photos, chinese metro looks modern compared to other new subways


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## xizhimen

yes,shanghai even has a bigger plan than beijing,but beijing is the capital,my bet is on beijing.


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## amirtaheri

Well, Beijing may well have the longest subway, but they do have some way to go before they get the title of being the most extensive transportation network. I imagine they will get there, but they have a long way to go before comparing to Tokyo. London, Paris etc, all have extensive suburban rail networks, something which Beijing is, as yet lacking in any significant number.

Beijing really does need these additional systems, not only to act as an express service, but to cater to what will probably become the largest urban area in the world.


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## Severiano

Its a shame that all those pretty stations are along the vitrtually unused Olympic line. We will have to wait a few years until line 8 is extended into human territory until those stations will be used for real. There is a pic of the station by my old house tho 雙井

I am rooting for Shanghai! Shanghai already has a better subway. SH will have 13 lines operating before the Expo. Oh well, Beijing can have the world record for most time wasting bomb detectors in one place.


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## Severiano

Double post


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## RelaxInPireaus

i like this line very much, but of course it had to be done for Olympics, same story as about Athens. 

Hope new lines will be not less wonderful


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## Falubaz

Severiano said:


> ... Oh well, Beijing can have the world record for most time wasting bomb detectors in one place.


:lol:
U r right!
They check ur bags when entring the station. But they dont do it properly coz i managed to skip the weird controll easily several times  so it's more like fake-control


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## xizhimen

please be reasonable ,those photoes are taken from many subway lines,line 5,line 10...,and why you say olympic line is useless,that is the most important way of transportation if you live in north beijing.line 4 will be in operation next week.so ,if you dont agree,that's ok,dont have to be mean and attack others.


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## xizhimen

and by the way,beijing's subway fare is maybe the world cheapest,2 yuan (30 cents) for unlimited ride.


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## xizhimen

that is for explosives and dangeous chemicals,once found ,will be put inside and sealed off.


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## xizhimen

A flat fare of RMB(¥) 2.00 with unlimited transfers applies to all lines


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## SqueezeDog

Beijing will be the best city in the world soon!


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## Ohno

xizhimen said:


> A flat fare of RMB() 2.00 with unlimited transfers applies to all lines


The ¥2.00 price,cheaper than ten years ago, is to encourage people to take public transportation. It is very great deal to take subway.


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## Falubaz

The metro in Beijing is cool, especially beautiful the new stations (line 8), but one thing should be done now, PRINT METRO MAPS! U cant get metro maps neither at the stations nor at the airport! It's weird and annoying. U cant plan ur journey without the actual metro map. In other chinese cities u get them easily at every station (i.e. Guangzhou) but in the capital u can only dream of the map... pity


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## micro

You only want the maps for your collection, admit, Falubaz!  
There are heaps of Beijing subway maps on the net that everybody can print at home: http://images.google.com/images?q=Beijing+Subway+map

@xizhimen, 
Nice photos, I didn't know that Beijing has so many interesting looking stations!


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## Falubaz

ahahhaha u got me! 
but in fact i didnt print it at home... coz i was sure i will get 'em over there!

Here are only few of my pics from Beijing (the rest has been deleted by an accident:/// )

Probably everyone's fave line: 8



























Line: 13









Line: 5


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## The Chemist

Beijing's stations are too sterile. No kiosks or vendors at all. What's up with that? Plus the stupid metal detectors and x-ray machines at every station months after the Olympics ended are a big pain. 

I like the flat 2RMB fare (I wish Shanghai would do it too) but that's about it - I think Shanghai's Metro is superior to the Beijing Subway in every other respect, especially in extensiveness of coverage of the city.


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## Scion

^^ Kiosks and vendors were all removed as a safety measure for possibly emergency evacuations. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing_subway#Safety


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## rheintram

xizhimen said:


> please be reasonable ,those photoes are taken from many subway lines,line 5,line 10...,and why you say olympic line is useless,that is the most important way of transportation if you live in north beijing.line 4 will be in operation next week.so ,if you dont agree,that's ok,dont have to be mean and attack others.


Looking at disadvantages and downsides of a system is not being "mean" or "attacking" - at least if it's done in a reasonable way.

Most cities tend to glorify themselves and their public transport systems. Personally I believe it to be our duty here, to look at reality, not the buzz.


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## Burkitt

xizhimen said:


> long term beijing subway planning,but i dont know wether it is real,huh,that means the whole beijing will be hollowed out underground.i would say that would be too scary to live on the ground ,huh


What on earth is going on with the end of the pale purple line here ^ ^ ^ ^ at the bottom of the map? It looks like the line planner got bored and started doodling!


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## Alargule

Looks like a very complicated way to me to link three stations at what seems to be an airport.


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## SoloSides

How are they able to build so much by 2012?


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## YelloPerilo

Burkitt said:


> What on earth is going on with the end of the pale purple line here ^ ^ ^ ^ at the bottom of the map? It looks like the line planner got bored and started doodling!


The new airport in the south of Beijing. You can see that this line is connecting the two airports.


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## foxmulder

Great pictures. Tnx..


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## The Chemist

SoloSides said:


> How are they able to build so much by 2012?


Cheap labour, fewer environmental regulations, and no NIMBYs (or if there are, the government doesn't usually listen to them).


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## SoloSides

The Chemist said:


> Cheap labour, fewer environmental regulations, and no NIMBYs (or if there are, the government doesn't usually listen to them).


I wish we had no NIMBYS, a larger workforce (not cheaper), and no politicians here in seattle. We could get our 3 mile tunnel done by 2010 instead of 2016


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## Occit

I love it...i feel "in the future" watching the pics


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## xizhimen

that's a long term planning,nowhere on the map says they will be finished by 2012.


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## Ohno

SoloSides said:


> How are they able to build so much by 2012?


Industrious workers, sound city-plan, and enough budget. :cheers:


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## kix111

beijing's subway stations looks really nice, but somehow they give me impressions of them being too artificial, 

with the cheap fare and short interval between the trains, i wonder how much the government subcidies this industry,


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## Scion

^^ from wikipedia

The lower [¥2] fare policy caused the Beijing Subway to run a deficit of ¥600 million in 2007, which is expected to widen to ¥1 billion in 2008. On a total of 655 million rides delivered in 2007, the government's subsidy averages to be about ¥0.92 per ride.


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## xizhimen

i think that is what we pay our taxes for,chinese government holds huge assets,and should share more with the people,beijing's subway subsidy is a good sign,but definitely not enough


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## Severiano

Shanghai is definately not enough. At least they try to make Beijing's subway stations pretty. Shanghai is more funcitional but Beijing has more aestetically pleasing stations. at least on lines 5, 8, and 10


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## xizhimen

beijing's subway system moved more passangers than shanghai,so it is not just for aestetical purpose.


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## iampuking

xizhimen said:


> in beijing subway stations,there are big screens telling you the waiting time for the next train,it is rarely more than 4 minutes,on peak hours,it is always less than a minute,very often the case is more training pulling out ,another train pulling in,i really dont know how they can always avoid rear collision.


That happens in many cities and does not give a real inkling to the actual headways for the lines. Do you actually know what the headways are in order to justify making ludicrous statements such as "shortest intervals in the world"?


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## xizhimen

that is a quoted report,i dont really know that stuff.and the quotes from beijing metro management experts,i think they should know what they are talking about.


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## z0rg

This map is absolutely stunning. What's the total length and schedule? I remember news about 1200km+ in a very long term. There are at least 4 branches "in bold". Why?


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## xizhimen

your anwser is as good as mine,huh,i also want to know.


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## deasine

iampuking said:


> That happens in many cities and does not give a real inkling to the actual headways for the lines. Do you actually know what the headways are in order to justify making ludicrous statements such as "shortest intervals in the world"?


Agreed. :lol: I want to know as well. Simply stating "oh trains just follow back to back" isn't very convincing.


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## NCT

Density is one thing, function is quite another. Functions are best concentrated according to their scope, global, national, regional and local, to optimise resourse-sharing and communication, so you inevitably end up with a set of centres with different and overlapping spheres of influence, which are best supported by nested radial networks of different sizes. And this is essentially what Ils-de-France and Greater Tokyo are.


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## particlez

NCT said:


> Density is one thing, function is quite another. Functions are best concentrated according to their scope, global, national, regional and local, to optimise resourse-sharing and communication, so you inevitably end up with a set of centres with different and overlapping spheres of influence, which are best supported by nested radial networks of different sizes. And this is essentially what Ils-de-France and Greater Tokyo are.



you're just so full of it. do you have a random bullshit generator?

global, national, regional, and local. yeah, that means a lot when you're talking about subway routes.


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## gramercy

incidentally, beijing is also building an S-bahn network and there will be at least 2 high-speed lines coming and going...


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## NCT

particlez said:


> you're just so full of it. do you have a random bullshit generator?
> 
> global, national, regional, and local. yeah, that means a lot when you're talking about subway routes.


Once again, no attempts at understanding the issue, and a predictably desparado cheap attack.

Businesses draw customers and talents from different-sized spheres according to their function and scope. Your convenience store is likely to have customers from no more than a block away, yet your Wangfujing attracts customers from places as far as Miyun and Sanhe.

(Global and national) Company headquaters have much higher and more complex travel needs - higher commuting distances and visits to client companies etc. Your subway network needs to consider all sorts of things from maximising accessibility and connections to rail termini.

All these different needs have to be specifically catered for, and assuming there can be a simple one-size-fits-all model is plain naive.


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## particlez

^in case you haven't noticed, wangfujing IS served, and by a bunch of lines at that.

every station does have a minimum population within its catchment area. 

the subway won't be the only PT option within beijing. even now, the rail from tianjin does serve as a de facto 'express' service for several areas in its path to central beijing.

would you IDEALLY want a 4-line system a la manhattan? sure, but there's also cost benefit to be considered. 

and really now, is this system all that different from the subway in central paris or in the 23 special wards of tokyo? cause... they sure as hell have lines that criss cross.


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## NCT

particlez said:


> ^in case you haven't noticed, wangfujing IS served, and by a bunch of lines at that.
> 
> every station does have a minimum population within its catchment area.
> 
> the subway won't be the only PT option within beijing. even now, the rail from tianjin does serve as a de facto 'express' service for several areas in its path to central beijing.
> 
> would you IDEALLY want a 4-line system a la manhattan? sure, but there's also cost benefit to be considered.
> 
> and really now, is this system all that different from the subway in central paris or in the 23 special wards of tokyo? cause... they sure as hell have lines that criss cross.


You are comparing Greater Beijing with central Paris and Tokyo. You are labouring under the delusion that uniform density = uniform distribution of economic functions. Overcentralisation in traditional cities arguably does exist to some extent, but a completely uniform land-use model for a city is entirely unjustified.

Before I go on, might I just clarify, for the benefit of other forumers, that the diagram on a black background we've seen earlier is actually light-hearted fantasy on the part of an enthusiast (no discredit directed at this individual for he clearly stated the purpose for his exercise):

http://www.ditiezu.com/viewthread.php?tid=74083

For a more accurate 2015-plan, please see this thread (I shan't copy the picture directly without the owner's permission):

http://www.ditiezu.com/viewthread.php?tid=73550

Now, credit where credit is due - the basic structure of the masterplan is sound - you can just make out the (dominant) radial lines. Passenger convenience leaves a lot to be desired. The outer named lines tend to finish up in the middle of nowhere, and there's usually *one* choice for onward connection - this presents passengers with one *entirely unecessary* change. Your Batong/#1 and Yizhuang/#5 are your typical examples. Those relying on the Fangshan, Changping and Xijiao lines don't even have the luxuary of one direct change onto a radial line, meaning there's a high chance they'll have to change 3 times for a relatively simple journey.

Beijing has a relatively hollow Central Area (in terms of function not just built density), and it's core functions relatively spaced out across Greater Beijing. I'm not sure this is the best land-use concept for a capital city and a regional centre - there's not many economies of scale that can be exploited.


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## The Chemist

particlez said:


> ^in case you haven't noticed, wangfujing IS served, and by a bunch of lines at that.


Unless things have changed since February, Wangfujing is NOT well served by the Beijing Subway. I recall having to walk at least 20 minutes from the nearest subway station to get there. I have to say, central area coverage is not a strong suit of the Beijing Subway (one of several reasons I believe that it's inferior to the Shanghai Metro) and from the looks of that 2015 plan, it doesn't look to get much better in the years to come. Shanghai's city centre metro coverage is far better, and will only be improving in the coming years with at least 6 new lines (7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13) serving the city centre area (the region within the Line 4 ring).


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## drunkenmunkey888

The Chemist said:


> Unless things have changed since February, Wangfujing is NOT well served by the Beijing Subway. I recall having to walk at least 20 minutes from the nearest subway station to get there. I have to say, central area coverage is not a strong suit of the Beijing Subway (one of several reasons I believe that it's inferior to the Shanghai Metro) and from the looks of that 2015 plan, it doesn't look to get much better in the years to come. Shanghai's city centre metro coverage is far better, and will only be improving in the coming years with at least 6 new lines (7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13) serving the city centre area (the region within the Line 4 ring).


Yeah Shanghai metro is easily the best subway system in mainland China and it will remain this way in the forseeable future


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## UD2

The Chemist said:


> Unless things have changed since February, Wangfujing is NOT well served by the Beijing Subway. I recall having to walk at least 20 minutes from the nearest subway station to get there. I have to say, central area coverage is not a strong suit of the Beijing Subway (one of several reasons I believe that it's inferior to the Shanghai Metro) and from the looks of that 2015 plan, it doesn't look to get much better in the years to come. Shanghai's city centre metro coverage is far better, and will only be improving in the coming years with at least 6 new lines (7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13) serving the city centre area (the region within the Line 4 ring).


the central area (in and around Tiananmen square to the Second Ring Road) is not and probably will never be well served by the subway system because the underground is occupied by subway networks that are reserved for offical government/military/emergency uses.

One of the main reasons why Beijing is able to build subways at the stunning speed that it does is because many of the tunnels that have recently been opened for public service had been in place for years, if not decades, being used by the government for many offical purposes.

again, not widely known information.


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## particlez

chemist- wangfujing is covered by the initial line and line 5. they're not THAT close, but line 8 (the current short olympic line) is being extended and will run to wangfujing in 2-4 years. it's supposedly going to be extended further south, but that hasn't yet been confirmed. line 6 is being built through wangfujing (on dongsi) in an east-west direction. despite what some detractors here think-- no reasonable planner would plan for high traffic areas to be underserviced. then there's the shanghai-beijing pissing contest, which is makes as much sense as the toronto-chicago pissing contests.

you have to remember that both shanghai and beijing still have developing transit systems. more lines and coverage are being added. coverage 'SHOULD' eventually be comprehensive (as with other east asian cities with similar built forms). but there are two possible scenarios in which the PT growth stops.

1. a financial collapse occurs, with all infrastructure projects affected negatively, which is a very scary proposition.
2. urban planning takes a 180 degree turn, and leads the various municipalities to wholly embrace car-centric suburban levittowns with their white picket fences, cute middle class utopian houses, and fat greenfield developer profits, which is only slightly less scary.

the supposed military no-go area through beijing a more of an urban legend than anything. the unused cold war underground city is planned to be remodeled along the lines of toronto's path and montreal's reso. some people hate the non street-level passages. but no one will complain when the weather turns frigid (one thing beijing has in common with toronto and montreal).

a reason for beijing's low (by chinese standards) population density is its need to preserve the forbidden city and other areas in its historical core, resulting in a strange donut-shaped pattern of development. many of its densest areas are between the second and fourth ring roads, which explains the circular subway lines in its plan. density is often overlooked when people critique PT efficiency. the difference in aggregate density between urban beijing and urban shanghai (28000/sq. km vs. 15000/sq. km) have an effect on their PT efficiency. with other factors being neutral, it's just a lot easier for shanghai than beijing (on an cost per capita basis) because its PT services a smaller footprint. on a related note, it's also a chief non-political reason why much of low density north america is not/cannot be efficiently served by PT.


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## HiTOPHi

Beijing's subway is the most used subway in China, way more than any other cities in China. It is also one of the most used subways in the world -ranking 8 in 2008. With its daily passengers now passing 5 million per day, it will pass HongKong and Paris very soon I think.

As to Beijing's subway length, it will be the largest in China at least. The long term plan is 1300km. The distant second will be Shanghai with over 800km in long term. Quite understandable though, Beijing is nearly 3 times as big as Shanghai after all.


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## Abhishek901

I like the ultimate plan of Beijing subway with lot of radial and ring lines covering every part of the city. The stations are beautiful as well. Earlier I thought that Delhi metro would become largest subway by 2020 as it will be larger than London Underground but then I saw the plans of Beijing and Shanghai. Quite impressive :applause:


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## aniuska

How long is Beijing Metro now?
280 km. or more?


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## Celebriton

nouveau.ukiyo said:


> It seems like a good vid, but it's taking forever to load (and my connection is not slow)...any reason for that? It seems like something to do with the site. Any other way of watching this?


Discovery Channel: Man-Made Marval- Beijing Metro System (YouTube)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogWgPUEe5SE&feature=related


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## Ashis Mitra

The large map is no doubt fantastic, but it is unreadable for Non-Chinese readers like me. So can anybody write the station names in *English*?

Another question – What does those means as M, L & S before line numbers? Any explanation?

Hi! I’m from India, living Kolkata, which has a subway line, which is India’s first, and my country’s capital Delhi is also not far away. According to master plan, _Total length of Delhi’s metro would be 450 Km in 2020_.
Best wishes for expanding metros of China more & more, be a proud of Asia by metro.


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## Scion

^^ The Beijing Subway map?


Wikipedia's 2015 map is the most comprehensive map that has English











The long long long term plan is to have every part of Beijing covered by a subway line (Chinese only).


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## goldbough

It will take me days on end to ride to all the stations! That's still several years away though. Then I'll have to hit Guangzhou and Shanghai in the same trip.


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## Alargule

That long term plan is ridiculous! How many kms of lines should that be?


----------



## Jamuary




----------



## Ashis Mitra

*What does those means as M, L & S before line numbers on the first Chinese map of this page? Any explanation?*


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## binhai

z0rg said:


> For some reason in China subway stations are very far away from each other. People living in a middle point between two of them will keep needing a car.


that's not really true, in a few cities that might be the case but in beijing and tianjin there's a subway station at least every 500m


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## The Chemist

z0rg said:


> For some reason in China subway stations are very far away from each other. People living in a middle point between two of them will keep needing a car.


In the suburbs, perhaps. But certainly not in the central city area. You have to remember that places like Shanghai and Beijing are pretty enormous, and that the outer edges of the subway network run through areas with much lower density than the central areas, hence more distance between stations.


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## anm

z0rg said:


> For some reason in China subway stations are very far away from each other. People living in a middle point between two of them will keep needing a car.


People leaving midpoint between stations can use surface public transit like buses, trolley buses and trams. Or, if they do not mind walking for 15 min, they can just walk. Very healthy. Or possibly ride a bike. Nobody would use a car to drive about 1-1.5 km.


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## z0rg

Oh, come on. For example in Shanghai it's just 5 stations from Nanjing Donglu to Zhongshan Gongyuan, that's less than 1 station per km on the average. Should be 10 stations at the very least.


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## NCT

Stations are not that far apart on Beijing subway - it's just that there aren't that many lines within the Line 2 ring at the moment. The central network will be densified in due course to be comparable to that of Shanghai's.

Beijing subway and Shanghai metro are more comparable to Paris RER than Paris Metro, so relatively long distances between stations are to be expected.


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## Kot Behemot

Hmmm... even if those people live in the midpoint of 1.5 miles, and let's say not directly above the metro-line will have to walk 1 mile (in the most extreme case). If we say that avg. human walking speed is 3-3.5 miles per hour, they will need 17-20 minutes to get to the metro-station. Those who can't walk for 17-20 minutes and wanna live in a city that big should just stay at home... 
Also, alternative home-to-metro-station transport like small foldable city bike like Brompton or Dahon could be a solution for getting there faster. 
Don't see a problem there.

Oh... just saw that anm had the same reasoning like me... I just agree.


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## NCT

1.5 miles is surely an exaggetaion. 1-1.5 *km* are the norm in Shanghai and Beijing, and London and Paris RER. The maximum distance you have to walk is about 800m or 10 minutes.


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## Kot Behemot

^^ ofc it's an exaggeration. It's only hypothetical example (calculation), to show that stations on every 400-500m are unnecessary in a city of Beijing scale. Moreover, short distances between stations would make the system tardy and inefficient.


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## Abhishek901

Shorter gap between stations also makes the system less capable of expanding further. Because of shorter gaps, the average speed of the train will be much less and it will not be viable to extend such lines to large distances. Paris metro is a relevant example in this case. Because of short gaps, they could not extend metro further into suburbs and had to build RER with longer gaps.


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## UD2

^^

I thought the average spacing between stations should be 1.3 - 1.6 km in subway networks. This type of spacing can best allow for an average operating speed of around 35km/h and allows coordior access with at most an 800m walk. 

500 is too short, and expansive to build.


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## NCT

As a general point however stations in the central area(s) should be closer together so no one single station is too overcrowded.


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## Deng

Logistics aside, I have to agree with Zorg. I usually find when wandering around parts of central shanghai the closest stop is usually the one I got off of. This usually isn't the case in Manhattan, where I am usually. Maybe this has something to do with overall city design and people flows rather than distance between stations? Or maybe because Manhattan has the luxury of quadruple tracked lines?


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## NCT

It depends really, on area and line. The very heart of Shanghai (Huangpu District) have stations rather close together, and likewise recently opened lines 6, 8 and 10. Just a few years ago where there weren't tha many lines or stations so it would certainly feel as though there's only this single station in the vicinity.

It's only line 2 with some insufferable long gaps, between Jing'an Temple, Manjing Xilu and People's Square, where there ought to have been Shangxi Beilu and Chengdu Beilu.

Anyway, back to Beijing


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## bluemeansgo

People in Manhattan who travel any more than a few stops will take the express. Distances between those stops are ~2km I'd imagine.

Subways used to compete with slower vehicles and road systems. Many subways these days are competing with motorways ( freeways ) and more efficient ( for cars ) grid systems.

As such, they're competing with faster average speeds, even when you account for congestion.

By the way, 1.5km is 0.9mi.

It can really affect travel times when you go under 1500m. Vancouver has a few lines:

E-Line: 44.5km/h avg ( ~1445m between stops )
M-Line: 43.5km/h avg ( ~1500m between stops )
C-Line: 36km/h avg ( ~1100m between stops )

Toronto's subway is about 800m - 1200m between stops and it averages* only 33km/h*. Sure, it's an older subway, but most of the reason for the speed difference is station spacing.

To further break it down, the first half ( 9.8km ) of the E-Line travels at 39.2km/h ( 1225m spacing ) and so the second half at ~50km/h ( ~1700m spacing ).

That's a significant 25% increase in avg. speed on the same line, just because of a few hundred metres of spacing.

I wouldn't be surprised if a car travels an average speed of between 30km/h and 40km/h in urban areas. To compete, you have to be significantly faster. You have to weigh the inconvenience of needing to travel further to a station with the convenience of faster travel times.

Walking times to stations can be fixed by building high density housing and employment around stations. Japan has done this really well and I'm sure China will too. It mitigates the need to have lots of stations and increases speeds. It also reduces costs.

Note: _Vancouver uses the same Canadian LIM technology as the Beijing Airport Express train._


----------



## chornedsnorkack

Or have a look at Munich S-bahn.

Average station distance 2700 m. Average speed 65 km/h, so a time per station 2 min 30 s. 30 s in a station, doors open to doors closed. Accelerating at 1 m/s^2 (limited by passenger comfort) means it takes 30 s to reach 108 km/h, then 60 s cruise, then 30 s deceleration - covering the 2700 m. Maximum speed 120 km/h.

Munich S-bahn is and has been wildly popular and big suburbs have been built around the stations.

Now, in Chengdu, Dujiangyan line has been opened. 65 km long, maximum speed 220 km/h, 15 stations. 

The railway between Beijing and Tianjin is 117 km long, with 3 stations. Maximum speed 350 km/h, station intervals 20...30 km. A bit inconveniently far for serious commuter services. How long does the train trip take between Beijing and Yizhuang station?

The major cities of China would each need a bunch of 50...100 km long (from centre) suburban railways, with 200...300 km/h maximum speed and 5...10 km station distance. And surface trolley and streetcar interchange at each railway station.


----------



## bluemeansgo

Chorned... but that's a little different. Those are truly regional rail systems. 

I don't know Munich's system, but if it's like Berlin, the S-Bahn is definitely more for long distance commuters. It's more of an intra-regional system like RER, Toronto Go Train, West Coast Express, LIRR ( NYC ).

This is talking about actual Subway systems which 

*A better comparison would be the U-Bahn.*

Can anyone calculate Beijing's average speed, number of stations, total line length and travel time on its lines. I'd be curious to know.


----------



## bayviews

Abhishek901 said:


> Shorter gap between stations also makes the system less capable of expanding further. Because of shorter gaps, the average speed of the train will be much less and it will not be viable to extend such lines to large distances. Paris metro is a relevant example in this case. Because of short gaps, they could not extend metro further into suburbs and had to build RER with longer gaps.


Good point, agree, a large, sprawling city like Beijing would be best served by having longer subway station spacing.


----------



## anm

Deng said:


> Logistics aside, I have to agree with Zorg. I usually find when wandering around parts of central shanghai the closest stop is usually the one I got off of. This usually isn't the case in Manhattan, where I am usually. Maybe this has something to do with overall city design and people flows rather than distance between stations? Or maybe because Manhattan has the luxury of quadruple tracked lines?


Subway in Manhatten was not planned by a single entity - there were originally two competing companies. As a result it is redundant in many places. With better planning it could have been simpler/ easier to use and more efficient, but it is historically what it is.


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## Ervin2

What rolling stock does the system use? I mean, what companies build their trains.


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## manrush

Ervin2 said:


> What rolling stock does the system use? I mean, what companies build their trains.


The trains of the Beijing subway are manufactured in whole or in large part by the Sifang Locomotive and Rolling Stock Company.

I think the line 5 trains were manufactured in cooperation with Hitachi.

The airport train is a version of the Bombardier Advanced Rapid Transit.


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## Ervin2

Alright thanks.


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## chornedsnorkack

anm said:


> Or possibly ride a bike.


Is it easy to take bicycles to Beijing Metro?


----------



## UD2

chornedsnorkack said:


> Is it easy to take bicycles to Beijing Metro?


outright impossible during rush hour.


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## UD2

Ervin2 said:


> What rolling stock does the system use? I mean, what companies build their trains.


Chinese made platform/coaches and mainly Bombardier propulsion / train control.


----------



## quashlo

If no one minds, I will share my transit pics from the Beijing area. Nothing special, but enjoy. 

Start off in Dongcheng District, near Beixinqiao Station:





Beixinqiao Station on Line 5. This was my home base.







Outside Xizhimen Station, interchange for Line 2, Line 4, and Line 13. 





100 m walk or so takes us to the adjacent Beijing North Railway Station, terminus for intercity trains and Line S2 of the Beijing Suburban Railway.



Unfortunately I got stuck in the queues at the ticket counters and missed the train I wanted—ended up losing an hour-and-a-half of my time that day. Anyways, this is my ticket to Badaling in first class. Not sure what the QR code at bottom right is for…



Waiting for my train…



Making my way down the ridiculously long platform…



My train:



“Great Wall” train.







This is technically branded as a high-speed train (top speed 160 kph), and has a dining car. However, the train is really more of a suburban train primarily for tourists trying to get to the Badaling section of the Great Wall just outside Beijing. Even my first-class ticket was really cheap, only 17 RMB.





First class. Unfortunately, I ended up with an aisle seat both times (I actually asked at the ticket counter to have a window seat, to no avail), so I wasn’t able to take many pictures from the window.





Badaling Station:



More to come…


----------



## y2koh

"First class. Unfortunately, I ended up with an aisle seat both times (I actually asked at the ticket counter to have a window seat, to no avail), so I wasn’t able to take many pictures from the window."

Can't help it, especially if you buy few hours before departure. The only way is to get onto the platform as fast as you can and board the train early to grab the window seat next to you. Then just negotiate when the ticket holder arrives. The locals do that all the time.


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## quashlo

y2koh said:


> The only way is to get onto the platform as fast as you can and board the train early to grab the window seat next to you. Then just negotiate when the ticket holder arrives. The locals do that all the time.


Actually, in a related story, I had someone pull this trick on me. I was quite dismayed when taking the Beijing-Tianjin HSR to find that someone had taken my seat while I was outside on the platform taking pictures of the train. Apparently, a young couple had bought tickets, but for some reason the computer assigned them seats not next to each other in first class even though the car was mostly empty. I ended up arguing with them in broken Mandarin that they had my seat and, thankfully, they moved. Of course, I only found out later when the train actually left Beijing South that there were plenty of empty seats and that the conductors never actually checked. In hindsight, I probably should have just moved to another seat the minute I saw them.


----------



## quashlo

*Part 2*

After some time at the Great Wall, it’s time to head back to Beijing the same way we came, on Line S2. At Badaling Station, waiting on the platforms:



They only open the doors to the platforms a few minutes before the train arrives, so there’s a steady stream of tourists and visitors heading down…



Back at Beijing North Railway Station:





After exiting through the “back door” of the station, I head to Xizhimen Station to hitch a ride on Subway Line 13. Line 2 and Line 4 are located underground, but Line 13 is located aboveground a bit of a walk away. The line forms a “fan” shape between Xizhimen and Dongzhimen through the northern parts of the city. As a terminal station, Line 13’s station at Xizhimen is designed with a single island platform between the two tracks (for boarding only) and two side platforms on the outside (for alighting only). 



Here, passengers on the platform crowd the doors waiting to board (and grab a seat), while passengers inside the train prepare to disembark from the other side.



After a switch to Line 10 at Zhichunlu Station, I arrive at Beitucheng Station, to transfer to Line 8. The first phase of Line 8 spans only 4.5 km and four stations, and was built specifically for the Olympics.











Little images of the Bird’s Nest and Water Cube show up on the maps above the platform doors.



Inside a Line 8 train…









Two stops later at Olympic Green Station…







Exiting the station…



Entrance-only faregates



Digital advertising display





After some time exploring the Olympics site, I end up at Olympic Sports Center Station…







To be continued…


----------



## Falubaz

Don't they still have printed system maps that yu can get at the station? I was in Beijing last exactly 1 year ago and i could nowhere get a simple map://


----------



## tommy949

That's some beautiful stuff right there.


----------



## quashlo

*Part 3*

At Dongdan Station, where I transferred from Line 5 to Line 1, the workhorse of the network.



After getting off at Tiananmen East and spending a couple hours in the Forbidden City, we cross this road to enter Jingshan Park. There were plenty of trolley buses of different sizes plying this street.











After a quick hike through Jingshan Park, we take the road flanking the park’s west side, where there was more bus activity. Being a comparatively narrow road and with few alternative routes to get around the park, traffic was at a standstill.







We take a leisurely stroll through the expansive Beihai Park, ending up on the west side along Wenjin Street, with plenty more trolley buses.







After a 20-minute walk, we arrive at Xisi Station on Line 4.





Unlike the other lines in the network, Line 4 was built (and is operated) by Beijing MTR Corporation. As a result, some of the station design elements bear uncanny resemblances to counterparts in Hong Kong.



At Xidan, we transfer to a Line 1 train, taking us to Guomao Station.







Walking towards Beijing’s central business district, we pass by a bus stop along the 3rd Ring Road.





Further north, BRT Line 2 runs along Chaoyang Road, with a stop at the intersection with the 3rd Ring Road at Hujialou East Station.









BRT bus pulls up to the platform. Unlike the BRT implementation in Guangzhou, the station design was more spartan and I didn’t see many buses using the exclusive ROW.



Driving off…





To be continued…


----------



## anm

chornedsnorkack said:


> Is it easy to take bicycles to Beijing Metro?


When I said this, I did not mean bikes would be taken inside the metro.


----------



## pearl_river

Target 1050 km by 2020
*
"Almost 280 km of track are now being built, surpassing the tracks in operation. By 2015, the network is expected to reach 561 km, exceeding London's or New York's systems and by 2020, there will be 1,050 km of track."*


Over the past few years, an army of workers has been spending 10-12 hours each day under the city, working feverishly to expand Beijing's subway system.

They endure poor air quality, high noise levels, isolation and extreme temperatures as they work to complete yet another kilometer of Beijing's ever-expanding subway network.

Though the subway has nine lines, 147 stations and 228 kilometers of track, the second-longest in China, it still can't cope with the public's demand.

Trains are overcrowded at almost any time of the day, and many areas are not served by the system.

To overcome this, an ambitious program began some years ago to add lines to the system. This was given a boost last year by a prodigious stimulus package, announced to fight the global financial crisis.

Almost 280 km of track are now being built, surpassing the tracks in operation. By 2015, the network is expected to reach 561 km, exceeding London's or New York's systems and by 2020, there will be 1,050 km of track.

Wang Junping is one of the many unsung workers of the project, decorating Yihezhuang station, in Huangcun town, Daxing district.

Wang, from Qianjiang, Hubei province, came to Beijing more than 10 years ago to work as a decorator. He has worked on Sanyuanqiao station on Line 10 and Majiapu station on Line 4. Yihezhuang is his third.

As the deadline for the completion of the station is the end of next month, Wang and his colleagues have been working more than 10 hours daily.

Like most construction workers, Wang can only return to his hometown once a year. His wife, a cleaner, works for the subway, too.

His daughter and son were brought up by grandparents and the only time the family gets together is Chinese New Year.

Yihezhuang is on the Daxing line, one of the 11 subway lines being built. This is part of the city's plan to encourage commuters to forgo private cars.

During tunnel boring on the Daxing line, there were more than 100 workers underground at the site. Now, about 70 are decorating the station.

Compared with Wang, Shi Pin is luckier because his wife and daughter live in Beijing, albeit two hours away. But he can be with them only one night every week.

Thanks to his job as safety manager, he is on call at all times and therefore sleeps onsite. A night with his family is a weekly treat.

His wife and daughter complain he doesn't spend enough time with them and he can feel a gulf developing between him and his daughter.

"I feel guilty because I failed to take my responsibility as a husband and father," Shi said. "I cannot even take her on an outing during the holidays".

He is also sad that between 2003 and 2008, he was unable to return to his hometown in Anqing, Anhui province, to see his parents.

Working underground is different from surface work. When building the tunnel, engineers and workers in tunnel-boring machines work 12 hours a day, enduring loud noises, high humidity and bad air quality.

"It's isolated from the outside world," said Wang Shunjiang, an engineer who specializes in tunnel boring. "There is no mobile phone connection and the only way to contact the people on the surface is by an internal phone",

Underground workers have to adapt to huge differences in temperatures, exceeding 30 C when boring, even if it's below 20 outside.

"After a few hours in the machine, my clothes will be completely wet," said Shi.

In winter, the gap between the surface and underground can be as high as 30-40 degrees.

But in summer, decorators may sometimes work in 5-7 degrees underground while the surface temperature might be 30. "If you walk in and out a few times, you can catch a cold easily," said Wang Junping.

At the Yihezhuang station camp on the surface, there are two basketball hoops, table tennis tables and areas to play cards. For the workers, with little time to return home, the site has to be where they can relax a bit.

In 10 years as a construction engineer, Shi has barely had any vacation. For him, life is one project after another.

"It is the characteristic of the profession. Since I chose it, I have to get over the difficulties. What else can I do?" he said.


----------



## mopc

pearl_river said:


> Target 1050 km by 2020
> *
> "Almost 280 km of track are now being built, surpassing the tracks in operation. By 2015, the network is expected to reach 561 km, exceeding London's or New York's systems and by 2020, there will be 1,050 km of track."*


:eek2::eek2::eek2::eek2::eek2:


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

So in the end... the authorities still decide to build a bigger network in Beijing than in Shanghai, which has a larger, more dense population. I feel like its just a prestige project so that BJ would have those extra hundred kms over Shanghai... Does this 1050 km include S1, S2, etc. suburban rails too? And I even see suburban rail networks designed for Nanjing... why the **** isn't Shanghai getting one? It needs it more than any of these cities...


----------



## highway35

It's not like Shanghai will stop expanding its metro systems after World Expo. Believe me, it's hard to say which city will have a bigger metro system. Besides, they're not exactly in competition with each other; even with over 1,000 km metro lines, both are nowhere near where Tokyo is today if you count all kinds of the rail tracks.



drunkenmunkey888 said:


> So in the end... the authorities still decide to build a bigger network in Beijing than in Shanghai, which has a larger, more dense population. I feel like its just a prestige project so that BJ would have those extra hundred kms over Shanghai... Does this 1050 km include S1, S2, etc. suburban rails too? And I even see suburban rail networks designed for Nanjing... why the **** isn't Shanghai getting one? It needs it more than any of these cities...


----------



## The Chemist

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> So in the end... the authorities still decide to build a bigger network in Beijing than in Shanghai, which has a larger, more dense population. I feel like its just a prestige project so that BJ would have those extra hundred kms over Shanghai... Does this 1050 km include S1, S2, etc. suburban rails too? And I even see suburban rail networks designed for Nanjing... why the **** isn't Shanghai getting one? It needs it more than any of these cities...


Beijing municipality is more than double the area of Shanghai municipality, so inevitably trying to serve all the population in Beijing will result in more rail than in Shanghai. I doubt it has anything to do with prestige.


----------



## maldini

The Chemist said:


> Beijing municipality is more than double the area of Shanghai municipality, so inevitably trying to serve all the population in Beijing will result in more rail than in Shanghai. I doubt it has anything to do with prestige.


I agree with you here. The other poster mention that Shanghai is denser than Beijing. For this reason, the number of km of subway will be bigger in Beijing than in Shanghai. I don't understand why he said Beijing subway is for prestige, when he himself understands that Shanghai is denser than Beijing i.e. more population serviced per station, but not necessarily more km of subway. This shows the other poster can't reason properly.


----------



## quashlo

*Part 4*

A few steps away from the BRT line along Chaoyang Road is Jintaixizhao Station on Line 10:









I wanted to take a quick ride on the Beijing-Tianjin HSR, so it was off to Beijing South Railway Station via Line 4. I arrived early evening, and it seemed fairly quiet through the lower parts of the station, although things were much busier in the actual waiting area several levels up.





After a quick two-hour jaunt to Tianjin and back, it’s time to head back to the hotel.





By this time it was already close past 10:00 pm and things were winding down...







The next day, I head for Yiheyuan, the Summer Palace, again via Line 4. Beigongmen Station lies at the north gate of the palace grounds.





Lots of tourists and visitors heading for the same place…





Exit C is the most convenient to reach the palace grounds…



The walk takes you by a busy bus stop and through a row of food stalls…



Bus area along Yiheyuan Road…



After several hours walking through the massive Summer Palace, we head back to Beigongmen Station, where I finally found a place I could purchase a Yikatong card after asking around everywhere—much more convenient than purchasing single-journey tickets, since the machines don’t take one-yuan bills.

At Xizhimen, we transfer from Line 4 to Line 2, alighting at Gulou Dajie Station to go see the Drum Tower.



Some bike parking outside the station…



Gulou (Drum Tower) bus stop



Walking around the other side of the block takes us down a nice leafy avenue with more trolley bus action…





To be continued…


----------



## quashlo

*Part 5*

From Gulou Dajie, we head over to Dazhongsi Station on Line 13 to make a visit to the Great Bell Temple… Straight ahead on the other side of the window, an intercity train passes by.





A look back at the station from a pedestrian bridge over the Third Ring Road…



Rumbling on northward, as street vendors sell pineapple-on-a-stick to passersby.



Line 13 trains are six cars long (originally four cars long), manufactured by the Beijing Subway Rolling Stock Equipment Company and Changchun Railway Vehicles Company.



Line 13 was the first line in the Beijing Subway to use magnetic tickets. These faregates were manufactured by Nippon Signal.



Time to head back…



Our next stop is Wangfujing, a major pedestrianized shopping district. This is the view after surfacing from Wangfujing Station on Line 1:



Approaching one end of the main drag, this section of road lacks curbs. Interesting to note is that these are actually trolley buses running off-wire.



After some time wandering around the open-air food markets, we fast-forward to the next day, my last day in Beijing. I crammed visits to the Temple of Heaven and Qianmen in during the morning before I had to head off to Guangzhou for business.

Bikes aplenty outside Tiantan Dongmen Station at the East Gate of the temple grounds.



Surfacing from Qianmen Station on Line 2, we are greeted by the Qianmen stop on BRT Line 1.





The massive Qianmen gate looms in the background on the opposite side of the road…



I am on my way to Qianmen Street, a former hutong neighborhood modernized into a shopping district and visitor attraction.





Replica streetcar, minus the overhead.







Nearby is the Beijing Railway Museum. I was actually hoping to visit the Beijing Urban Planning Exhibition Center, but it was closed that day.



Walking north through Tian’anmen Square gets us to Tian’anmen Dong Station on Line 1. Transferring to Line 5 at Dongdan, we head down to Chongwenmen to visit the old city walls. I passed by this trolley bus depot at the main intersection.





Following east above Line 2 takes us to busy Beijing Railway Station.



After a few minutes wandering the large plaza outside, I hop on a Line 2 train to make my way to the airport. The city-side terminal for the Airport Express is at Dongzhimen Station, and trains make the journey in about 20 minutes. The line uses Bombardier’s Advanced Rapid Transit (ART) technology, with third-rail power collection and linear-motor propoulsion.

Watching some TV while I wait…





I had a seat up in the front, with a weird box-type seating configuration. This is in the underground section of the line.



After an intermediate stop at Sanyuanqiao, the train surfaces, here crossing above the Fourth Ring Road:





Toll station at the airport. The Airport Express is paralleled by an Airport Expressway for most of its route.



Getting closer…



Entering Terminal 3 Station:



Trains arriving at Beijing Capital International Airport traverse a one-way loop, stopping at Terminal 3 Station then Terminal 2 Station before heading back to central Beijing. My flight to Guangzhou was leaving from Terminal 1, so I stayed on until Terminal 2 Station.



End.
Thanks for viewing.


----------



## CNGL

^^ Line 13??? I believe it's full metro, not light rail. Maybe they are mistaken because line 13 runs mostly (If not all) elevated. Light rail lines will be the named ones (Except Daxing line that has been merged with line 4)


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## Falubaz

It's just the chinese nomenclature for elevated rail lines


----------



## Spookvlieger

onthebund said:


> 北京就是大气！！！车站设计得多大气啊。。。喜欢！！！！我们上海的车站设计得太小气了，看上去就不痛快！！！应该向北京好好学学！！！


I doubt it, show us...


----------



## The Chemist

onthebund said:


> 很多方面北京比上海做得好，我们上海要好好反省反省！！！


I don't think so. The only thing that the Beijing Subway has over the Shanghai Metro is its 2RMB flat fare, compared to Shanghai's distance based fares. IMO, the Shanghai Metro is better at everything else.


----------



## Ashis Mitra

When the construction of subway started, were the previous tram tracks (closed in sixties) discovered under the road surface in the time of digging?


----------



## ode of bund

Ashis Mitra said:


> When the construction of subway started, were the previous tram tracks (closed in sixties) discovered under the road surface in the time of digging?


no


----------



## Myouzke

*Five subway lines are open as of Dec 30*

Line 15 (phase I section I): Wangjing West - Houshayu 20.2km
Changping Line: Xi'erqi - Nanshao 21.24km
Daxing Line: Gongyixiqiao - Tiangongyuan 21.7km
Fangshan Line: Suzhuang - Dabaotai 24.7km
Yizhuang Line: Songjiazhuang - Yizhuang Railway Station 23.3km

source

for larger resolution see: http://www.bjsubway.com/templates/images/big_subwaymap.jpg


----------



## Geography

Thanks for all the metro updates. I notice the extension to line 4 was integrated into line 4, but the other lines have to interchange with existing subway lines. Why is that?


----------



## Myouzke

^^
Well I guess Beiijng MTR want to experiment with the urban-suburban line integration to increase ridership.

Here is what I found.

*BJL4 DXL Through-train Service Trial Operation End of the Year*

Headway of Large Loop Could Reach 5 Minutes

Reporter learnt from BJMTR that the free-load trial run of DXL is going on smoothly, system upgrading and tests of BJL4 for the through-train service with DXL is also in progress. All the operational and maintenance staff (~ 700) of DXL are posted and stationed at Nanzhaolu depot and DXL stations. Relevant works proceed smoothly since the start of trial run on August 20. DXL is scheduled to provide through-train service with BJL4 at the end of year, the end-to-end travel time will be 81 minutes.

Through-train service, briefly said, is a seamless train service between two lines. The start of DXL will be connected to the end of BJL4, trains can run from DXL to BJL4 or from BJL4 to DXL directly. To passengers it feels like riding on 1 line. Through-train service without transfer between lines will shorten the travel time and be much more convenient to the passengers.

In the trial operation through-train service will be provided with short loop and large loop. Travel time of the large loop from Anheqiao North to Tiangongyuan will be 81 minutes and travel time of short loop from Anheqiao North to Xingong will be 53 minutes. The minimum headway of the short loop will be shortened further from 3 minutes now applied to BJL4 to 2.5 minutes and the minimum headway of large loop is 5 minutes. Time of the first train and last train from BJL4 stations will be kept unchanged and the time for DXL station is still in discussion with Traffic Control Center, the specific time will be announced to public when settled.

source


----------



## foxmulder

This suddenly puts Beijing subway total length at 3rd place together with New York after London and Shanghai.


----------



## hoosier

Amazing how even this expansive of a metro network cannot adequately meet the transportation needs of Beijing. The proposed network, if completed, should be satisfactory though.


----------



## hmmwv

Curious they opened five new (and extension) lines on the same day, must be a lot of overtime pay for folks at Beijing MTR.


----------



## TheKorean

Myouzke said:


> *Five subway lines are open as of Dec 30*
> 
> Line 15 (phase I section I): Wangjing West - Houshayu 20.2km
> Changping Line: Xi'erqi - Nanshao 21.24km
> Daxing Line: Gongyixiqiao - Tiangongyuan 21.7km
> Fangshan Line: Suzhuang - Dabaotai 24.7km
> Yizhuang Line: Songjiazhuang - Yizhuang Railway Station 23.3km
> 
> source
> 
> for larger resolution see: http://www.bjsubway.com/templates/images/big_subwaymap.jpg


Why is one line seperated from others?


----------



## Myouzke

^^
Oh because they haven't open Line 9 which suppose to connect Fangshan Line with rest of the system. Line 9 will most likely open by end of this year or beginning of next year.


----------



## lkstrknb

Beijing's 1st maglev light rail to run next week

16:33, January 05, 2011

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90776/90882/7251349.html

Beijing's demonstration line for the maglev light rail, which is also known as the S1 Line, will go into operation on Jan. 10, according to the Shijingshan district authorties.

Related staff indicated that the western section of the S1 Line starts from Shimenying of Mentougou district and ends at the Pingguoyuan station of Shijingshan district. The overall length will stretch over 10 kilometers.

The staff member also indicated that S1 Line is expected to fully completed by the end of 2013.

By Zhang Qian, People's Daily Online


----------



## lkstrknb

Does anyone have any more information or pictures about the maglev S1 Line. I tried looking on Google maps for any construction activity in the districts mentioned, but I did not find anything.

I don't know if I can believe any of this since a previous news article said that construction of the system will begin December 28, 2010.

Luke


----------



## big-dog

New subway pics



























































































(sina.com)


----------



## Myouzke

Beijing Subway should phaseout the numbers and start using names for lines.


----------



## Nordicon

^^
That could confuse tourists


----------



## hkskyline

*INTERVIEW-Beijing eyes makeover to become byword for "service" *

BEIJING, Jan 10 (Reuters) - Beijing wants to transform itself into a centre of technology, service and innovation, where residents prefer mass transit over private cars to move easily about the futuristic capital, the city's deputy economic planning chief said on Monday.

"Over the next five years we'll create a service brand competitive worldwide that's as world famous as watches from Switzerland, fashion from Paris and garments from Italy," Lu Yingchuan, deputy director of the Beijing Municipal Commission of Development and Reform, told Reuters.

The goal is to change the label from "made in Beijing" to "created in Beijing", he said.

While laudable, such aspirations could prove nothing more than a pipe dream, with city officials hoping to win over the hearts and minds of newly affluent consumers who increasingly vote with their pocketbooks.

To highlight the challenge facing officials, one need only look at the consumer tidal wave that quickly transformed China into the world's largest auto market, surpassing the United States, and creating a host of associated problems from choking air pollution to gridlock on many major roads.

After a massive building boom sparked by the Olympics and fuelled by a government stimulus programme, Beijing is also under pressure from scarce water and power supplies, a swelling population and a notorious pollution problem, so the city has no choice but to plot a new path of development.

One target is to cut a swath through the infamously smoggy air, achieving at least 80 percent "good air" days, compared with 48 percent a decade ago.

This year Beijing became the first Chinese city to restrict the number of vehicles on the road -- 20,000 a month -- and the local government hopes to turn the tide completely, with plenty of mass transit options so residents have no need to choose private cars in the future.

Still, getting people to give up their cars, or their aspirations for cars, will not be easy, and may bump up against other economic targets especially since the auto industry now forms a large part of China's job and industrial growth.

The goal, premised on a plan to boost public transport, reflects a big shift in attitudes to China's development, since the number of cars used to be seen as an easy indicator of economic growth.

The city now plans to double the length of its subway lines in the next five years, adding more than 300 km by the end of 2015. That comes on top of five new lines it opened with little fanfare on Dec 30, at a cost of $9.2 billion. 

The new round of railway construction, along with a low-cost housing programme, will keep Beijing consuming steel, although the city is hoping to find new materials such as ceramics or plastics that could help replace steel.

To help clear up its air and keep its economy powered, the government wants to cut coal use from 28 million tonnes to 20 million tonnes, using natural gas instead.

Beijing is aiming for 8 percent growth in the next five years, down from 9 percent in the last five-year plan.

"The one percent reduction shows we're shifting our way of development from just seeking economic growth to more better structure and quality to reduce pressure on resources and trying to create without consuming resources."

Beijing already boasts "China's Silicon Valley", an IT park that grew out of its university district in the northwest. Now it plans to set up similar service zones for science and technology, business, media and the financial sector, Lu said.

In addition to attracting private investment in its new projects, the city government will spend 10 billion yuan ($1.51 billion) annually on scientific innovation, intellectual property and research and development. ($1=6.629 Yuan)


----------



## Woonsocket54

City Weekend
http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beiji...railway-hub-beijing-seven-big-train-stations/



> *Railway Hub Beijing: SEVEN Big Train Stations*
> 
> by davidfeng | Posted on Jan 18 2011 | Beijingologist
> 
> _Of course._ Beijing is the nation's capital: there's no reason why we shouldn't be a big railway hub either. Here's what's planned for rail city Beijing in terms of big passenger hubs (as told by tonight's _Wanbao_ or evening newspaper):
> 
> *Beijing Railway Station: Central Beijing — for all regular rail and some HSRs (high speed railways), as well as international connections to Russia, Mongolia and north Korea
> 
> *Beijing North Railway Station: Xizhimen — for trains to northern China (although not to the northeast), as well as the future Beijing-Zhangjiakou HSR
> 
> *Beijing East Railway Station (to be rebuilt): Tongzhou — for intercity trains to Tangshan (HSR trains); this station will be built on the site of the present-day Tongzhou Railway Station
> 
> *Beijing South Railway Station: by Kaiyang Bridge — HSRs, mainly to Tianjin and as of June, Shanghai
> 
> *Beijing West Railway Station: on Lianhuachi East Road — regular rail (and some HSRs) to southern China and Hong Kong (HSRs to Guangzhou and
> Shenzhen later this year)
> 
> *Beijing Fengtai Railway Station: by central Fengtai — a future HSR-only station carrying passengers to Guangzhou, Kowloon and Shijiazhuang
> 
> *Beijing Xinghuo Railway Station: just east of the eastern 4th Ring Road (north of Chang'an Avenue) — a future stop on the Beijing-Shenyang HSR in the works
> 
> That's _one more rail hub_ that Paris!
> 
> Take especially note of Beijing East, Beijing Fengtai and Beijing Xinghuo — these hubs have yet to be built. Probably the last hub to be built will be Beijing Xinghuo, which may either be a city terminus for the Beijing-Shenyang HSR, or a midway stop.
> 
> The Beijing Xinghuo Railway Station, in particular, is a weird being. No idea where the thing is? It's Google Maps to your salvation... it's here...
> 
> ...which, as we all know, is in the middle of nowhere. Subway Line 3, by the way, is expected to call here... but heaven knows when works will even begin.
> 
> The new Xinghuo will be made up of six platforms — hence a small station. It's probably likely that express trains to and from Shenyang will first leave from the Beijing Railway Station before services are transferred to Xinghuo.
> 
> (If ever.)
> 
> When all these rail hubs are done no later than 2014, you'll long for the days of Mao, when all we had was a central hub by Jianguomen known as the Beijing Railway Station...


That's three more than Chicago and two more than St Petersburg but two less than Moscow and a boatload less than London.


----------



## Silly_Walks

> *Beijing West Railway Station: on Lianhuachi East Road — regular rail (and some HSRs) to southern China and Hong Kong (*HSRs to Guangzhou and
> Shenzhen later this year*)
> 
> *Beijing Fengtai Railway Station: by central Fengtai — a future *HSR-only station carrying passengers to Guangzhou, Kowloon* and Shijiazhuang


Isn't the HSR to Guangzhou and Shenzhen the same as the HSR to Guangzhou and Kowloon?


----------



## nouveau.ukiyo

wrong thread


----------



## hkskyline

Silly_Walks said:


> Isn't the HSR to Guangzhou and Shenzhen the same as the HSR to Guangzhou and Kowloon?


No the MTR (Guangzhou East - Hong Kong Hung Hom) and CRH (Guangzhou East - Shenzhen) services are different.


----------



## goldbough

Myouzke said:


> Beijing Subway should phaseout the numbers and start using names for lines.





Nordicon said:


> ^^
> That could confuse tourists


I agree with Nordicon. Also, numbers would probably be better for locals who don't ride the subway often. Just say, "Take the #1 to xx, transfer to #3..." When looking at a map, I would prefer numbered lines.


----------



## Silly_Walks

hkskyline said:


> No the MTR (Guangzhou East - Hong Kong Hung Hom) and CRH (Guangzhou East - Shenzhen) services are different.


I know the service to Hung Hom is different, that's not the one i was talking about.

I was replying to the part that was talking about HSR lines.

I made them bold to make my point more clear for the fast readers.


----------



## Rail_Serbia

I think that short report about Beijing railway stations is in relation with the thread. Maybe, it would be good to add the metro lines, existing and future in the vicinity of those railway stations. Are there all main railway stations near the circle line 2? For example, in Moscow all main railway stations are near the circle line 5.


----------



## Woonsocket54

Rail_Serbia said:


> I think that short report about Beijing railway stations is in relation with the thread. Maybe, it would be good to add the metro lines, existing and future in the vicinity of those railway stations. Are there all main railway stations near the circle line 2? For example, in Moscow all main railway stations are near the circle line 5.


In Moscow, seven of the Big Nine stations are on the Ring Line of Moscow Metro (the two stations that are not, Rizhskiy Vokzal and Savyolovskiy Vokzal, are both just one stop away from the Ring Line; these terminals are the least-used among the Big Nine, if I'm not mistaken).

The guy behind urbanrail.net has just updated his Beijing subway map to show the railroads . . . I think this is one of the first attempts online to get everything in one map

Subway service for Beijing rail termini
*Beijing* (present Line 2)
*Beijing-N* (present Line 2, present Line 4, present Line 13)
*Beijing-E* (???)
*Beijing-S* (present Line 4, future Line 14)
*Beijing-W* (future Line 7, future Line 9)
*Bejing-Fengtai* (future Line 10)
*Beijing-Xinghuo* (possibly future Line 14)


----------



## chornedsnorkack

*Beijing West*

How do the trains from Shijiazhuang now approach Beijing West?
Would it be feasible for them to reach Beijing South?


----------



## Myouzke

chornedsnorkack said:


> How do the trains from Shijiazhuang now approach Beijing West?
> Would it be feasible for them to reach Beijing South?


For CRH trains that the case but I don't think other conventional trains can enter Beijing South anytime soon.


----------



## Woonsocket54

City Weekend
http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beiji...ijings-incredible-subway-expansion-timetable/



> *Beijing's Incredible Subway Expansion Timetable*
> by davidfeng | Posted on Jan 27 2011 | Beijingologist
> 
> Please get ready for your arrival. Shanghai Metro, be _very_ scared.
> 
> • *Opening late 2011:* Line 8 (South Gate of Forest Park - Huilongguan Dongdajie; into northern Beijing), Line 9 (Beijing West Railway Station - Guogongzhuang; bus transfer needed to Line 1), Line 15 (Houshayu - Fengbo)
> 
> • *Opening September 2012:* Line 9 (National Library - Beijing West Railway Station), Line 10 (Jinsong - Bagou via Songjiazhuang, Fengtai and Gongzhufen; yep, it's the other side of the loop)
> 
> • *Opening December 2012:* Line 6 (Haidian Wuluju - Caofang), Line 8 (Huilongguan Dongdajie - Zhuxinzhuang; northernmost link; also Beitucheng - China Art Museum)
> 
> • *Likely opening up late 2012 (latest early 2013):* Line 14 (Zhangguozhuang - Lize Business District; will connect with Lines 9 and 10)
> 
> • *Opening 2013 - 2015 with certainty:* Line 6 (Caofang - Dongxiaoying; into eastern Tongzhou), Line 7, Line 14 (Lize Business District - Shan'gezhuang; that's the Wangjing - CBD - Beijing South express), Line 15 (Wangjing West - Beishatan), Line 16 North, Changping Line (Nanshao - Ming Tombs Reservoir Park), Mentougou Maglev, Western Suburban Line, Yanfang Line (extends Fangshan line further west)
> 
> • *Likely also to open between 2013 - 2015: *Line 3 East and West (yep, not the central bit; weird, isn't it?), Line 6 (Haidian Wuluju - Pingguoyuan), Line 8 (China Art Museum - southern Beijing), Line 15 (East Gate of Tsinghua University - Beishatan); Line 16 (entire line), Changping Line (Xi'erqi - Jishuitan), Line 17 (northeastern link to Tiantongyuan)
> 
> • *In the pipeline... may open by 2015:* Line 9 North, Line 12 (part), Fangshan Line (Guogongzhuang - Mengjiacun), Airport Link (from Terminal 3 through CBD and Beijing South to 2nd Airport), as well as an extra line in the CBD and the S6 Suburban Railway
> 
> • *2015 - 2020:* Line 3 Central, Line 11, Line 12 (remaining part), Line 18 (for much of the 4th Ring Road); probably Express Subway Line 1.
> 
> By the way, from what your Beijingologist has seen, *Line 3 will bring a stop bang in the middle of Sanlitun.* Don't dare budge an inch, Apple Store Sanlitun and Bookworm; *y'all are sitting on gold* (if the plans work out)...


----------



## CNGL

Wow, I want to see a map of Beijing subway by 2020!


----------



## Dan78

*The Beijing Subway Challenge: How Does It Compare to New York?* by An Xiao Mina

Huffington Post editorial article comparing the New York Subway to Beijing's. "New York City's subway feels like a dusty old library book with scribbled margins and torn-out sheets. Beijing's trains are the hip new e-reader with bells, whistles and the distinct feeling that you're stepping into some version of the future."


----------



## Woonsocket54

^^ The prevalence of express service + 24-hour service systemwide makes NYC a one-of-a-kind in the world. Impossible to compare with Beijing.


----------



## xizhimen

*Shanghai's Metro, Now World's Longest, Continues to Grow Quickly*

Shanghai's Metro, Now World's Longest, Continues to Grow Quickly

as China Invests in Rapid Transit
If China’s massive investment in high-speed rail is impressive, its huge spending binge in local rapid transit is remarkable. And nowhere is that record more dramatic than in Shanghai, the world’s most populous city proper.

Just fifteen years after the first segment of its first metro line opened, the city’s metro network has gained the title as the world’s longest with the opening of a section of Line 10 last week. This followed years of continuous construction and the opening of pieces of Lines 2, 9, and 11 over the past month. In anticipation of the inauguration of the city’s Expo 2010 event on May 1st, Line 13 will open sometime in the next two weeks.

Now Shanghai offers 282 stations and 420 km (261 mi) of lines, compared to 408 km in London and 368 km in New York, which now have the world’s second and third-largest rapid transit networks. Unlike those cities, which have only minor line extensions planned, Shanghai’s expansion plans are only half complete: not only does the city have 140 km of more lines currently under construction and intended for service by 2012, but it has an additional 300 km planned to be ready for operations by 2020, by which time this city alone will have more rapid transit mileage than the entire country of Japan.

The Shanghai Metro is now capable of handling about five million passengers a day; the system is likely to become the world’s most-used, passing Tokyo and Moscow, by the time the full construction program is complete.

Beijing is pursuing a similarly extension metro expansion project, but these cities aren’t alone: twelve Chinese municipalities currently have rapid transit, nineteen more have systems under construction, and an additional seventeen new networks are in planning. The national government has committed $150 billion to the projects by 2015, though additional funds originate from the municipalities themselves, such as the progressive and independent City of Shanghai. It’s a country-wide investment in urban transportation unparalleled in human history.


----------



## little universe

^^Quite impressive by saying *shanghai alone* will have *bigger metro system* than *the entire country of Japan *by *2020*!!!!!!
Sure beijing will reach shanghai's level sooner or later.


----------



## xizhimen

Beijing is bigger than Shanghai in area,and soon will even be bigger in population,Beijing's subway expansion is fastest currently in China,very soon Beijing will fulfill its goal to be No.1.


----------



## xizhimen

but unlike subway in other cities in China,Beijing's subway is heavily subsidized by the city government,so the fare is extremely low,2 kuai(0.35$)for unlimited ride.


----------



## SO143

Bye Bye London Underground & New York Subway :byebye:


----------



## lkstrknb

For the third time, the Beijing maglev construction has begun. Last summer construction began, in December construction began, and now in March construction began. Is this for real this time? Who knows!

LOL

Luke

http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Asia/Story/STIStory_640119.html

Mar 1, 2011 

Construction starts on Beijing's maglev line 

BEIJING - A MAGLEV line using Chinese technology was brought under construction in Beijing on Monday, despite objections from residents living along the line.

The new low-to-medium speed S1 Line is the first of its kind in the country, making China the second nation in the world to have such a line, said Chang Wensen, chief project manager of the line.

The project shows China has the capability to engineer and use low-to-medium speed maglev technology, said Mr Chang, who is also a professor at the National University of Defence Technology and leads a research team that developed the technology.

As one of the eight lines brought under construction on Monday in Beijing to form an urban transit network and help ease traffic gridlock, the S1 Line will extend from Mentougou to Pingguoyuan.

The construction of the line is expected to cost around 6 billion yuan (S$1.6 billion) and wrap up in 2013, earlier reports said.

The construction of the project was first slated to begin in the middle of last year, but was postponed several times because residents living near the proposed route worried about radiation exposure. -- CHINA DAILY/ANN


----------



## Abhishek901

ddes said:


> ^^ What's with the tram agenda you're pushing?


He is a tram lover but he spams every metro thread with posts related to tram.


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS

Silly_Walks said:


> Trams can transport more people than buses. So replacing some buses with trams will leave you more space on the road.


Why waste money on that when you could build more subway lines?...


----------



## Falubaz

^^ In such big city like Beijing - and still growing - it has to be metros, not trams.


----------



## Silly_Walks

VECTROTALENZIS said:


> Why waste money on that when you could build more subway lines?...


I love subways, but one some routes, metros are not qualified (too little demand), but something better than a buses is still wanted: hence a tram would come in handy.


----------



## hkskyline

Falubaz said:


> ^^ In such big city like Beijing - and still growing - it has to be metros, not trams.


Not necessarily. Big cities have a variety of public transport modes. They all complement each other. When demand warrants, then a subway line can be built. For example, London has a huge Tube network, but they do have trams as well.


----------



## Silly_Walks

hkskyline said:


> Not necessarily. Big cities have a variety of public transport modes. They all complement each other. When demand warrants, then a subway line can be built. For example, London has a huge Tube network, but they do have trams as well.


Or Hong Kong, which even on the dense Hong Kong island has metro, trams, buses, mini-buses and taxis, in stead of _just_ metro.

One does not exclude the other, but can complement each other in a highly efficient web of transportation.


----------



## Svartmetall

Silly_Walks said:


> I love subways, but one some routes, metros are not qualified (too little demand), but something better than a buses is still wanted: hence a tram would come in handy.


Agreed. Trams are very handy as feeders and medium capacity rail transport too for more sparsely populated areas that don't warrant a metro. Considering how vast Beijing is and how massive the bus system is, obviously the metro will never fulfil the entire transport role and supporting transport will always be needed.


----------



## particlez

you'll probably see more tramways in china. as of now, resources are better spent on providing heavy rail through the most congested areas of the largest, most congested cities.

tramways work best in smaller centers or in the lower density suburban fringes. of course trams are a good thing, but currently their development is not the most efficient allocation of limited resources.

the hong kong island tram line isn't a good example of pragmatic mass transit. it runs on surface streets through a high density area of a very large city. as such, it is painfully slow, especially when right turning vehicles block intersections. it's slower than the buses running alongside and certainly no competition for the subway. it is a good example of historic preservation, a great tourist draw, and provides photo ops. if i were suddenly imbued with simcity-like powers over hong kong or other large cities, i certainly would not tear it down, but i would insist on ROW for any new rail transit through central/congested areas of large cities.

mind you, surface tramways aren't especially efficient in other hyper dense large urban areas. you COULD run surface street trams through midtown manhattan or central london or central paris, and they'd attract some riders. but from a pragmatic pov, the flexibility of buses makes more sense in city centers. 

there are reasons why the larger german cities' tramlines have ROWs through the high density city centers, but that's really not so different from heavy rail. you'd be getting rid of a main advantage of trams; surface street accessibility. 

on a tangential note, many urban planners, historians and aficionados rue the dismantling of the streetcar system of say... los angeles. but even if the streetcar system in LA had been perfectly preserved, it would need to be supplemented with a comprehensive above ground/below grade heavy rail system be competitive. at grade rail is just too slow for longer journeys in congested areas.


----------



## Silly_Walks

particlez said:


> but even if the streetcar system in LA had been perfectly preserved, it would need to be supplemented with a comprehensive above ground/below grade heavy rail system be competitive. at grade rail is just too slow for longer journeys in congested areas.


Well, duh. :lol:


----------



## nouveau.ukiyo

^^Sorry if I'm getting off topic, but regarding LA, some people argue that the streetcar network contributed to sprawl because it allowed people to move out into the suburbs. When automobiles and driving became cheaper and easier after WWII, there was little need for the streetcars anymore. And the word 'streetcar' doesn't really describe the full scope of the system that once was in LA; it was more of a hybrid urban streetcar/suburban trolley system. 

I doubt the same scenario would happen in China where population density is much higher. Most people don't live in single family homes and driving still isn't affordable and convenient for the masses. 

Regarding the different modes of transportation (heavy rail, buses, trams, etc.), like others said different situations call for different solutions. To use Hong Kong again as an example, heavy rail ferries many people from Hong Kong Island and Kowloon deep into the New Territories. Many people get off and walk home or transfer to buses, etc. But there are few light rail systems that circulate around the many high rise complexes near station areas. Because they have their own right of ways, they quickly get people to and from the rail station and frequency is high. Because the area is small, stations are very close together and ridership numbers call for a medium capacity mode of transit, light rail is more appropriate. Singapore has some similar systems in place as well. And I could see this setup working in many Chinese cities too around densely populated rail/subway stations. Light rail in these places would work well because they can be faster than buses (if they have their own ROW) and higher capacity and are more appropriate than heavy rail. This is just one example of the implementation of light rail; I was just in Hong Kong, so I thought of this after reading this thread. Of course many other types of neighborhoods would be well suited for light rail too.


----------



## Ashis Mitra

I’ve some questions (arose after viewing some websites). Please answer one by one – 
1)	Will Line 15 be extended from Houshayu to Fengbo & from Beishatan to Wangjing West & from Summer Place to Beishatan?
2)	Will Line 8 be extended from Huoying North to South gate of Forest Park & from Beitucheng to Museum of Art?
3)	Will line 10 be completed to form a second ring line like line 2?
4)	Will there be a new Line 16 from Suzhoujie to Yushuzhuang ?


----------



## CNGL

1) Yes, line 15 will be extended in both directions. Houshayu-Fengbo is opening later this year. Beishatan-Wangjing West will open in 2014. What is different is the last section beyond Beishatan. It won't end at Xiyuan (Summer palace), but at Qinghuadonglu, where a new station on line 13 is planned. The crazy thing is that they will build a station named Guanzhuang when there's already one with the same name in Batong line (Only in latin characters, in hanzi is different).
2) Yes, but it will end at Zhuxinzhuang (Changping line), not at Huoying North. Huilongguan East to South gate of Forest park is opening later this year, while Zhuxinzhuang to Huilongguan East and Beishatan to Chinese Museum of Art will open next year. From Chinese Museum of Art, a Southern extension to Wufutang is planned.
3) Yes. It will open next year.
4) Yes, it's that. They are also planning a Northwestern extension from Suzhoujie (line 10) to Beianhe as a separated line, the Haidian Shanhou line. You might not like this...


----------



## chornedsnorkack

particlez said:


> mind you, surface tramways aren't especially efficient in other hyper dense large urban areas. you COULD run surface street trams through midtown manhattan or central london or central paris, and they'd attract some riders. but from a pragmatic pov, the flexibility of buses makes more sense in city centers.


Yes, but buses mean wasting energy on the rolling friction of rubber.

I agree that in bigger cities, trams should work as complementary to off-grade metro. Trams for shorter trips or for last stretch of trip, metro for longer trips.


----------



## bd popeye

_A rather revealing and amusing article.._author is unknown...

Trapped in the human hurricane that is Line 1 of Beijing metro



> Recently, I took the Beijing metro.
> 
> Not for the first time, though. I had taken the metro before usually either late at night or in some obscure corner of the city where people come and go in a steady but thin trickle.
> 
> In attempt to evade the traffic and avoid the whopping 40 yuan ($6.25) fare I had been coughing up everyday for a cab, I decided to take the metro. This time, I was traveling at 5:30 pm, the height of rush hour, from Muxidi to Guomao on Line 1, the line infamous for hosting massive throngs of people.
> 
> Now I finally know how a chicken feels in a chicken pen at a chicken-nugget factory. Where did this exodus come from? I live in Hong Kong, one of the most densely populated cities on the face of Earth, and yet the Hong Kong metro seemed spacious in comparison.
> 
> Standing sandwiched between a middle-aged woman clutching an armful of shopping bags and the sweaty bicep of a beefy doppelganger of the Michelin Man, brought back memories of the Taylor Swift concert I attended a few months ago. The inside of the metro bore an uncanny resemblance to the mosh pit at the country star's Hong Kong debut.
> 
> I remember my friend Lucy remarking with amusement, that she couldn't lie down. "Try to fall back!" she exclaimed through the cacophony. I relaxed my body and let my knees give in. And yet I did not budge one inch. There were so many people converged on me from all directions, that the collective flesh of 1,000 concert-goers simply supported me in standing position.
> 
> The Beijing metro was no different. In fact, the 2 yuan ticket entitles you to a little extra, something that isn't offered with the HK$900 ($115) Taylor Swift ticket - incredible, awkward tension.
> 
> When a stranger's face is literally a few centimeters away from yours and shifting your stance is not an option, you are forced to tilt your eyeballs in the most unnatural way to avoid eye contact. Otherwise, you will find yourself immobile, gazing deeply into the other person's soul for the hour-long ride.
> 
> I was lucky, however, and managed to snag a spot by the television screen, a dusty monitor screening pixilated animations from a provincial television program, the kind of program I would instinctively flip past while watching TV at home.
> 
> Yet on the metro, it was like watching Harry (Potter) discover a horcrux (the key to the secret codes) at the premiere of Deathly Hallows Part 2. Tweens watched, as if catching up on the latest episode of Glee; middle-aged men ogled, as if enjoying the finals of Miss Universe. Two young Canadians stood in the corner enraptured, straining their necks to catch a glimpse of the subtitle-less, barely audible, mediocre children's cartoon, as if it were the finals of an ice hockey tournament.
> 
> The hardest part, however, was getting off. Somehow, during the course of the journey, I was pushed toward the back of the carriage and squeezed against the window. The doors were at the other end. I was stuck.
> 
> In the end, I followed the thin path created by two women inching their way through the crowd, using them as pawns, and finally got off the train.
> 
> Victory! I strolled through the station jauntily, proud to have survived the journey so far. All I needed to do was transfer to Line 10 to get to Tuanjiehu. And then I paused mid-step. I saw it by the escalator - a massive, gaggle of noise and human flesh.
> 
> What was going on? I stepped closer to observe. It resembled the crowd of maniacal girls I saw waiting for Justin Bieber at his concert only months after Taylor's debut. And then it dawned on me. These were the people transferring to Line 10. I backed away in horror.
> 
> Better take the taxi home.


----------



## Silly_Walks

lol we had the same experience a few times, but one time was especially bad, transferring from the 2 to the 4 at Xuanwumen. The first time we decided to just walk to Xidan


----------



## Ashis Mitra

Please try to answer these questions one by one-

1)	Left side, right side or both side, - which type of platforms are in most numbers in Beijing subway network?
2)	Elevated, ground level or underground, - which type of stations are in most numbers in Beijing subway network?
3)	Which are the highest & deepest station of Beijing metro?
4)	Which is the busiest metro station on Beijing metro?
5)	Which stations have interchange facility with suburban rail network on Beijing metro?
6)	Where is/are the depot(s) of the subway network?


----------



## CNGL

1) Right side for elevated stations, and left side for underground ones.
2) AFAIK, underground.
3) Don't know.
4) Don't know. Perhaps anyone from Beijing could answer those two.
5) For now, only Xizhimen, which connects with Beijing North Station, where starts the S2 suburban train.
6) They are at the following locations:
Gucheng and Sihui (Line 1)
Taipinghu (Between Xizhimen and Jishuitan) (Line 2)
Longbeicun (Beyond Anheqiao North), Majiapu (Near Gongyixiqiao) and Nanzhao Road (Beyond Tiangongyuan) (Line 4 and Daxing line)
Tiantongyuan North and Songjiazhuang (Line 5)
Bagou (Line 10, also for Line 8 as it doesn't have depots yet)
Huilongguan (Line 13)
Maquanying (Line 15)
Sihui (again) and Tuqiao (Batong line)
Dingsi Road (Near Zhuxinzhuang) (Changping line)
Yancun (Beyond Suzhuang) (Fangshan line)
Songjiazhuang (again) and Taihu (Beyond Yizhuang Railway Station) (Yizhuang line)
Airport Express depot (Where the line splits and goes to Terminal 2 and Terminal 3).

Next time you could see Wikipedia


----------



## Silly_Walks

A lot of demanding questions, this guy.


----------



## hmmwv

I remembered riding the Beijing Metro in 1990, even at that time the crowd is kinda crazy and I got my glasses broken by the mob.


----------



## Woonsocket54

Dear Passengers blog
http://www.dearpassengers.com/2011/09/23/beijings-xizhimen-hub-to-sport-new-interchange-passageways/



> *Beijing’s Xizhimen Hub To Sport New Interchange Passageways*​Posted on 23 September 2011 by David Feng
> 
> _In brief: New interchange passageways for Line 13 travellers changing to Lines 2 and 4 will open this Saturday, according to local media reports._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The Line 4 part of Xizhimen Subway Station_​
> Beijing’s Xizhimen hub is a real mess — and at the time, one true hub. We’ve three Subway lines and a full railway station — one wishes that this might be the case at Beijing South, which — thanks to the new HSR to Shanghai — is seeing more riders than one might hope for.
> 
> The mess is greater at Xizhimen, though, for it’s where three high-capacity city Subway lines mix and mingle with a less busy railway station. As of late, it has been an excruciating experience changing Subway lines at the hub, since Line 13 riders had to nearly fully exit the station to complete the transfer. The whole station was a curse: it was too easy for riders to go the wrong way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Wrong way!_​
> Relief, though, is coming this Saturday, according to local media. Riders changing from Line 13 will be able to use the same, wider transfer passageway that present-day riders on changing from Line 2 or Line 4 to Line 13 have enjoyed. Depending on your line of travel, you will use separate channels when going from Line 13 to either Line 2 or Line 4.
> 
> During rush hour, the walk will be about 10 minutes, while during the daytime, it’ll take probably about 5 minutes or so to finish the change. At the same time, a new semi-underground transfer tunnel will also open for those going between the Subway and Chinese National Railways (at Beijing North).
> 
> This is probably the best possible news for riders who have to finish an A-to-B stretch during rainstorms or when the blizzard hits the Chinese capital again. If this summer was any indication, the hot season here is also getting increasingly _wet…_


----------



## Falubaz

BarbaricManchurian said:


> ^^what red arrow? ...


This:









i remember the old extention scheme for the line 8, which planned a curve like that pale coloured line marked with the small red arrow - here the 4 big green arrows show it.


----------



## binhai

Oooh, sorry for missing that, really faint on my monitor. I think that was the plan thought up by netizens and the government plan is in gray. The actual built line goes from 森林公园 (South Gate of Forest Park) to 林萃路 (Lincui Lu) station on the faint plan, then back to the gray plan at 永泰庄 (Yongtaizhuang). According to wikipedia they chose this because of the long distance from 森林公园 (South Gate of Forest Park) to 永泰庄 (Yongtaizhuang), so they added a station.


----------



## hmmwv

Yes you are right, the light yellow line is what people suggested it to go on Chinese forums.


----------



## Woonsocket54

*photos of new Line 8 stations*

Huilongguan Dongdajie - http://www.panoramio.com/photo/64335511

Huoying - http://www.panoramio.com/photo/64335502

Yuxin - http://www.panoramio.com/photo/64335491

Xixiaokou - http://www.panoramio.com/photo/64335479

Yongtaizhuang - http://www.panoramio.com/photo/64335474

Lincuiqiao - http://www.panoramio.com/photo/64335468

*photos of new Line 15 stations*

Fengbo - http://www.panoramio.com/photo/64306795

Shunyi - http://www.panoramio.com/photo/64306764

Shimen - http://www.panoramio.com/photo/64306731

Nanfaxin - http://www.panoramio.com/photo/64306700

*photos of Line 9 stations*

Beijing West Railway Station - http://www.panoramio.com/photo/64306731

Liuliqiao East - http://www.panoramio.com/photo/64214517

Liuliqiao - http://www.panoramio.com/photo/64214478

Qilizhuang - http://www.panoramio.com/photo/64214450

Fengtainanlu - http://www.panoramio.com/photo/64214428

Keyilu - http://www.panoramio.com/photo/64214412

Fengtai Science Park - http://www.panoramio.com/photo/64214392

Guogongzhuang - http://www.panoramio.com/photo/64214366

*photo of new Fangshan Line station*

Guogongzhuang - http://www.panoramio.com/photo/64214350


----------



## Woonsocket54

Anyone know if the deep-level railway tunnel between Beijing Rwy Station and Beijing West will be completed this year?

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=18739618&postcount=22


----------



## IanCleverly

Below is a Youtube Video related to the operations of the Beijing Subway, but is more of a 'people-watching' documentary.


----------



## lkstrknb

Hi, I'm very interested in the progress of the Beijing maglev. I am wondering if there is any real construction of the track on the actual planned route. I recently (2 months ago) walked all around the Pingguoyuan Subway Line 1 station to look for any construction activity and saw none. I did some research and saw that the S1 line was supposed to be built somewhere near that station.

I am also tracking the maglev construction progress on the Incheon South Korea maglev currently being built. Together, along with the HSST maglev currently operating in Nagoya Japan, the Beijing maglev will be the 3rd low speed maglev build in the world. This is other than the Birmingham airport maglev discontinued in the 1990's.

At http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...835712&page=26 this shows the construction progress at Incheon International Airport in South Korea.

Any thoughts or news. I would love to see some construction pictures from Beijing!

Luke


----------



## big-dog

Woonsocket54 said:


> Anyone know if the deep-level railway tunnel between Beijing Rwy Station and Beijing West will be completed this year?
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=18739618&postcount=22


It's supposed to open by the end of 2012. There's no delaying news as far as i know.


----------



## big-dog

^^ the connecting line is delayed from latest news. For project and land acquisition difficulties, the line couldn't open until the end of 2013. 

Railway ministry's focus is the underground connecting between Tianjin Railway station and Tianjin West, which will open by this year.


----------



## :jax:

Any further information on the Beijing Suburban Railway? The Wiki article has little new to add (English or Chinese). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing_Suburban_Railway


----------



## Ashis Mitra

Beijing’s subway system is growing continually year by year. The construction rate is very satisfactory. Although in starting they only opened 2 lines, but this dramatically changed after getting permission of 2008 Summer Olympics, and now there are 9 lines, (excluding suburban metro lines). I hope, if they continue the trend, Beijing’s metro network will be soon 2nd largest in the world, (currently 3rd largest), only after Shanghai. As an Asian, and a neighbour of China, I’m quite proud that our neighbour is building metro very very fast.

Now we are expecting for opening line of line 6, 7 & 14, which is planned to open before 31/12/14, and the extensions of line 8, 9, 10 & 15. There are some questions relating this – 

1)	How are constructions going on line 6, 7 & 14 & extensions of line 8, 9, 10 & 15? Has they started? Please post some photos.

2)	I heard recently a new line 16 planned, has the construction started?

3)	Finally, I heard earlier, Beijing will return tram in 2011, named by ‘Western Suburban Line’, but now it is said that it will be opened in 2014, again someone says in 2013. Which is final? Has the construction started? What was the problem for the delay?


----------



## :jax:

I have seen construction on 6, 14,likely 7, the central part of 8, as well as 10 and 15 (haven't been around 9). Good as apart from 7 and 14 they are all supposed to be opening soon.


----------



## Northridge

I read about the extension that makes line 10 a loop line. How long will this be when completed?


----------



## :jax:

They are digging heavily around all the ring, so it is definitely coming. Wikipedia claims September this year, and that may indeed happen. Wikipedia in turn relies heavily on this article by David Feng, and he seems well-informed and plans haven't changed greatly so far.

Incidentally that article mentions lines not on the above maps, lines 3, 11, 12, 17, and 18, plus the suburban lines and the airport link (between the current airport and the planned one). Real estate agents and similar I've talked to confirm the overall picture (then again they would, wouldn't they). I was in Tongzhou a few days ago, they were talking about the metro line 6, the extension of Yizhuang to Tongzhou, the S6 from Haidian by Shunyi to Yizhuang, the R1 (the express 1/Batong or 6 line, which seems to be on separate tracks, two stops to Tiananmen square, CBD presumably being the intermediate stop), tramlines (saw no actual plans/maps, so this may be wishful thinking), and a new Beijing East high-speed rail station.

A little earlier I was in the north of Beijing, where they were talking about an additional metro line, I assume the 18, and some rumours of extending the 5 line northwards. Compared to the neighbouring suburban lines 5 stops short. But these are plans and plans change.


----------



## Northridge

^^Thanks. I mean how many km it will be when completed.

Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## :jax:

According to Wikipedia again the existing line 10 (phase I) is 24.7 km with 22 stations, the completion of the ring would mean an additional 32.5 km and 24 stations, for a total of 57.2 km and 46 stations.


----------



## Northridge

Thanks. Couldn't find that on the english wiki. 

57.2km must be the longest loop line in the world. Impressive!


----------



## :jax:

The Large Hadron Collider at CERN is a bigger loop, but yes, it is pretty big (and unlike LHC can take metro cars)... I guess it would take about 1 3/4 hour to do full circle. Whether the line would be Bagou to Bagou or something else I wouldn't know.


----------



## Northridge

I was mainly thinking of Metro here. And I guess line 10 will not operate at speed over 186,282 miles per second(speed of light).


----------



## big-dog

Beijing Qianmen street tram


----------



## Silly_Walks

When i was in Beijing, the low percentage of trolleybuses compared to diesel buses surprised me, considering Beijing's horrible air quality. Why don't they replace more diesel buses with trolleybuses? It would a relatively small investment compared to the reduction of toxic exhaust fumes within the city.


----------



## ina555

I think almost all buses in Beijing are electric, not diesel.


----------



## Silly_Walks

ina555 said:


> I think almost all buses in Beijing are electric, not diesel.


Really? You know a site where I can read more about this?


----------



## NCT

Most buses are diesel, though CNG and LNG buses are also well represented.


----------



## hmmwv

Electrical buses will require the spider web like overhead wires that's gonna clog the area above Beijing's roads, especially the very wide ones. It's never gonna return that's for sure, I'm convinced that CNG electric hybrid and capacitor electric are the way to go.


----------



## NCT

Modern wiring technology can make the wires look very clean and pleasant. People normally don't bat an eyelid when it's tram wires yet are horrified at the prospect of trolleybus wires. Capacitor buses still suffer from power problems - aircon + 50km/h+ running usually means a 2-minute charge at every single bus stop, and any hybrid buses still rely on fossil fuels. In the medium term trolleybuses are still the most reliable and more environmentally friendly, and represent best value for money.


----------



## hmmwv

Well during the Expo the capacitor buses run the route connecting the parks on both sides of the Huangpu, they carry a full load of people, AC blasting cold air, and going up and down the under river tunnel, yet it still only takes less than 30 seconds to charge. Tram overhead wire is probably acceptable because the number of lines will be limited, and it usually travels on dedicated track so it won't cross the roads very often. Once you have the wire going all over the place, as electric buses will be doing, it becomes an eyesore. BTW Nanjing is currently planning a new tram at its Hexi New Area and it'll use Siemen's capacitor-electric design.


----------



## NCT

Trams networks in continental European cities can just be as complex - to be fair the only difference between tram and trolleybus wires is one instead of two, which I personally don't find a big deal.

There were 3 batches of buses operating in the Expo site - diesel ones on Longhua Road East (Puxi side), capacitor buses on the Expo Avenue and battery buses going accross the river. Buses usually stopped twice at each bus stop, once for alighting and once for boarding, which helped mask the amount of time needed to charge the capacitors up.


----------



## :jax:

More wires are really not going to be a problem in Beijing, anyhow there are plenty of trolleybuses here already (all with batteries I believe). A hybrid of capacitor and trolleybus might perhaps be a good idea.


----------



## NCT

:jax: said:


> More wires are really not going to be a problem in Beijing, anyhow there are plenty of trolleybuses here already (all with batteries I believe). *A hybrid of capacitor and trolleybus might perhaps be a good idea.*


That would be a sensible thing. Capacitor technology is effective enough when used for short stretches, and IIRC capacitors are longer lasting and more environmentally friendly than batteries.


----------



## :jax:

Or one day this thing, though frankly I doubt its effectiveness, even if they got it to work. But it would get rid of some cables.


----------



## hmmwv

:jax: said:


> Or one day this thing, though frankly I doubt its effectiveness, even if they got it to work. But it would get rid of some cables.


Bombardier already has this technology and proposed to the Nanjing Hexi tram line but lost to Siemens due to extremely high construction and maintenance cost.


----------



## Slartibartfas

NCT said:


> Trams networks in continental European cities can just be as complex - to be fair the only difference between tram and trolleybus wires is one instead of two, which I personally don't find a big deal.
> 
> There were 3 batches of buses operating in the Expo site - diesel ones on Longhua Road East (Puxi side), capacitor buses on the Expo Avenue and battery buses going accross the river. Buses usually stopped twice at each bus stop, once for alighting and once for boarding, which helped mask the amount of time needed to charge the capacitors up.


What is the big deal? If Vienna can afford to have its big tram network, all parts with plain regular and not even fancy looking overhead cables, I guess any Chinese city could as well. If you invest into fancy looking overhead cable systems I would even consider it a gain for the street view. 

Trolleybuses cause a slightly bigger mess in the air as their overhead system is quite a bit more complex. But still, I don't understand the fuss people make about it.


----------



## :jax:

I was in Tongzhou and got an update on rail extensions there. 

The R1 express metro line is happening, mostly along the Batong line, but with some interesting exceptions. In the old centre it is diverging from Batong connecting to the current Tongzhou Railway Station, the future Beijing East high-speed railway station, instead before re-joining the Batong line. Then it will diverge south in the direction towards Yizhuang for the terminus. The Batong line will be extended with three more stations in the same direction as before (towards the south-east). 

Interestingly both R1 and metro 6 will branch. Metro 6 will have 4 more stations in the direction of Songzhuang, while the R1 branch will serve New Tongzhou with another 3 stations. Both branches of R1 seem to have three stations, but then reportedly there will only be two stations to Tiananmen (the intermediate one presumably being Guomao or thereabout). In other words six stations in Tongzhou, and then only two in East Beijing. I don't know about the western part of R1. 

This is a good model, and one I like for bus network as well. Part express with just a few stops maybe 5 km apart, with branch lines at either or both ends serving the local community, maybe just 300-500 meters between stations (obviously longer for an express metro than for busses). In smaller towns and cities only one or a handful interchange stations are needed, but for Beijing the number would likely be more like 40-50. If each bus pass a number of these it should be possible to get from where you are to where you want to be with a single transfer to another bus or the metro system.

The suburban S6 is on track to be opened in 2014. It will have four stops in Tongzhou, interchanging with all other lines except the regular Batong line, as well as unknown stops in Haidian, Shunyi, Yizhuan and both Capital Airport and Daxing/Langfang Airport. (The last may be a later extension, given that there will be no such airport in 2014, and Yizhuang is set up as end stop elsewhere).


----------



## big-dog

*4.28* Beijing Subway reached record volume at daily ride of *8.391 million*

The highest volumed 3 lines are:

line 1: 1.6 million
line 2: 1.5 million
line 4: 1.2 million

Source


----------



## Woonsocket54

It would be interesting to know the ridership statistics for some of the other lines, especially the ones that don't go downtown like the Changping and Fangshan lines.


----------



## :jax:

Maybe then for the full year (or at least a month), since this holiday weekend is filled with Beijingers leaving town, and visitors entering it.

Also wonder how they counted line riders. The locals using Yikatong would register both point of entry and exit (though not the route taken between them), not sure if the single ticket does the same. Did they count pick point of entry, or exit, or deducing the most likely route between them? They clearly have real-time statistics, so ridership during the day would be interesting as well (though which hours to avoid is pretty clear already).


----------



## saiho

Woonsocket54 said:


> It would be interesting to know the ridership statistics for some of the other lines, especially the ones that don't go downtown like the Changping and Fangshan lines.


here you go
Line 1: 1.6047 million
Line 2: 1.5129 million 
Line 4/Daxing: 1.231 million
Line 5: 1.0374 million
Line 8: 155,900 
Line 9: 46,300
Line 10: 1.0412 million 
Line 13: 870,400 
Line 15: 207,600 
Batong Line: 349,100 
Changping Line: 126,200
Fangshan Line: 33,900 
Airport Line: 36,800
Yizhuang Line: 137 500 

Source


----------



## Silly_Walks

Per day? Wow!


----------



## CarlosBlueDragon

When will subway line 6 in beijing be open??


----------



## Woonsocket54

Line 6 rolling stock (Line 6 will open by the end of 2012)










Source: http://www.chinesecity.com.cn/241/2012/05/10/82s12283_3.htm









Source: http://www.chinesecity.com.cn/241/2012/05/10/82s12283_4.htm









Source: http://www.chinesecity.com.cn/241/2012/05/10/82s12283_5.htm









Source: http://www.chinesecity.com.cn/241/2012/05/10/82s12283_7.htm









Source: http://www.chinesecity.com.cn/241/2012/05/10/82s12283_10.htm


----------



## mrmoopt

Its funny how CNR/CSR don't mention in great detail that alot of their components come from Bombardier/Alstom/Siemens. Yes, they do get a passing mention, but the picture above with the Alstom test kit clearly shows indigenous technology is not quite there, or they are bound by licence/technology transfer and the trains are not 100% local product.


----------



## hmmwv

cal_t said:


> Its funny how CNR/CSR don't mention in great detail that alot of their components come from Bombardier/Alstom/Siemens. Yes, they do get a passing mention, but the picture above with the Alstom test kit clearly shows indigenous technology is not quite there, or they are bound by licence/technology transfer and the trains are not 100% local product.


What do you want more than a passing mention? Almost all reports about CSR Puzhen will clearly state that it has acquired technology from Alstom, Bombardier, and Siemens. The fact that almost all Chinese metro rolling stock have their technological roots in Alstom and Bombardier is well known. Speaking of test kits, Boeing actually has to send some of their test instruments to Northrop-Grumman for calibration, they don't exactly advertise that, don't they?


----------



## :jax:

Maybe if I were in the industry I would care more about the subcontractors and their nationalities. But I would think most people like me would be more interested in what is being offered and when, a "passing mention" is just about right. It might be appropriate in a bragging article about how superior Chinese technology is (or all those Skyscrapercity talk threads on my country/city/tribe is better than yours...). We live in a globalised world, only North Korean technology like to be a world apart.


----------



## idoke

Woonsocket54 said:


> Line 6 rolling stock (Line 6 will open by the end of 2012)


What part of line 6 will be opened this year?

Also, when will the south part of line 8 will be opened?

TIA


----------



## saiho

^^ according to Chinese Wikipedia the first section of the phase II southern extension from Beitucheng to Gulou Dajie (_Line 2 Transfer_) will open in late 2012. In 2013 the reminder of Phase II South from Gulou Dajie to National Art Museum will open. The rest of the line will open in 2015 as Phase III. 

Line 6 will open all of phase 1 which is from Haidian Wuluju to Caofang


----------



## hkskyline

*Rented bikes bridge transport gap in Beijing*

BEIJING, Aug. 14 (Xinhua) -- Zhu Ran lives in Beijing's central Dongcheng District and rides Subway Line 5 to her office, located south of the city center. It takes her roughly 15 minutes to walk from the subway station to her office, and, although it didn't save much time, she would sometimes catch the bus from the subway to work.

But now she has another option that actually shaves minutes off her commute: she can take a seven-minute bike ride.

Zhu picks up a bike at the service point near the subway station and drops it at another point near her office. The self-service rental operation requires only the swipe of a card, and short-term users like Zhu can rent the bikes for free. "It's convenient, very nice," she said in a recent interview.

The rental point adjacent to the subway station near Zhu's office can accommodate about 60 bikes. Enclosed by walls of dark gray bricks, with the street-facing side decorated with opaque glass murals, the venue is a major point where commuters can register their transportation cards for the rental service. A smaller rental point may simply consist of a handful of bikes parked along a sidewalk. There are currently 60 rental points with 2,000 bikes operating along Subway Line 5 and Line 10, which run largely through the city's Chaoyang and Dongcheng districts.

These facilities constitute the initial phase of an ambitious plan for an intracity public bike rental service sponsored by the Beijing municipal government. It was officially launched on July 1, following a trial period. By the end of the year, there are expected to be 200 rental points and 10,000 bikes scattered throughout the city, according to the Beijing Municipal Commission of Transport (BMCT).

This is not the first time public bike rentals have been available in the city. Four private companies took up the business and their services caught media attention during the Beijing Olympics in 2008. Not long after that, all four companies found their services unsustainable due to a host of common problems. The biggest problem was the lack of cooperative, standardized operation -- a client often had to return the bike to the same place where it was rented, creating an inconvenience that suppressed potential demand. Sluggish business forced the private operators to turn their rental points into spots to park bikes temporarily or retail outlets.

Meanwhile, success stories were being touted in other cities like east China's Hangzhou, where public bikes had become a much-welcomed means of transportation. BMCT sources say their fresh attempt is based on two years of taking lessons from past experiences in Beijing as well as other cities.

The rental service is sponsored by the government, ensuring uniform practices. The city government's launch fund covers the construction of rental points and equipment purchases and maintenance.

The fleet of white and orange bikes are currently being supplied by the well-known Flying Pigeon Cycle Manufacturing in Tianjin, and each bike can be rented with a registered transportation card at one point and returned to the same or any other point.

Automatic locking technology has been adopted to minimize the number of service workers. Each bike contains an electronic chip that can transmit data on the bike's location, and this technology can monitor the bike flow and help workers adjust bike supplies accordingly.

The rental bikes' main purpose is to help address the problem of the last kilometer of transportation from the subway to the workplace or home, says BMCT. Beijing has a fairly powerful public transportation system, and an intended target of the city's subway development is to enable a person to find a subway station no further than 500 meters away from any point in the city's urban areas. The public bikes are expected to complete this comprehensive system. The bike rental points are generally spaced out by about 500 meters and located along subway lines, close to office buildings and residential areas.

Short-term renting is encouraged and users can enjoy renting the bikes for free for one hour. Because it's a government-financed project, the rental fee is low, one yuan (0.16 U.S. dollar) for every hour after the first hour, with a 10-yuan-per-day limit. Anyone who keeps a bike for more than three days will be fined 20 yuan a day, starting on the fourth day.

A renter needs to have a registered municipal transportation card to be able to enjoy the service. The registration process requires a card holder to present an ID, pay a 200-yuan deposit and sign a service contract. A registered card can be used at all rental points in a self-service manner.

Only permanent Beijing residents are currently eligible to register for the service, but it will be extended to all in October, BMCT sources say.

Preliminary statistics show that about 1,800 cards were registered and bikes were rented about 30,000 times in the first month since the service began.

Wu Qi, a retired oil company worker, collected promotional handouts and application forms at Subway Line 5's Tiantan East Gate Subway Station point in the first week of the service. He has not yet decided to register, but said that he and his children would likely do so. "I like traveling by bike. It's convenient, healthy and non-polluting," he said.

Chen Zhilei, a demobilized military man who also went to the station to inquire about the bikes in the first week of the service, was not optimistic. He noticed that the bike lot was not covered. "The rains will soon turn the elegant new bikes into rusty stuff," he said.

Zhu Ran said the brakes didn't work very well on the bike she rented after the service had been up-and-running for three days.

Maintenance is a concern. Yanhongzhou, a collectively-owned company that is in charge of operating the public bike rental service in Dongcheng District, admitted they have no mechanics fixed to a specific point. "Our teams of maintenance workers move from place to place. Bikes are checked every day," company office director Cheng Ying said in the dedicated operation center. As for sheltering bikes kept in lots, she said the design of points is standardized.

Yanhongzhou is currently managing the operations of 30 rental points with 40 staffers. The company is responsible for its human costs, as well as maintenance and spare parts expenses.

Cheng admitted that the first-hour of free service may present a problem in sustainability even though it meets the government's requirements.

"We regard it as a public interest project. But it should not be a burden on our company, which has a history of more than 50 years," Cheng said.

In the initial period, the government is expected to provide the company with a subsidy for the operation. "In the long run, we may find ways to make a profit," she said.

With the rented bike, Wang Yaqing, an IT worker at an office building in Dongcheng District, has cut his travel time from the subway station to the office to five minutes, down from 15 minutes' walking. He said he hopes there will be more rental points in the future, so he can pedal home from another subway station.

It is not easy to decide on the location and size of a specific point, because available land is scare in mature urban areas and demand for bike rentals is difficult to predict. The commuter use demonstrates a clear pattern, and bikes are being trucked to points where supplies run low at peak times.

According to the government plan, the second phase of the project will expand the service to other urban districts, adding some 15,000 bikes along the way. In 2015, there will be 1,000 rental points and 50,000 bikes, BMCT said.


----------



## big-dog

*8.31 Four new lines (sections) will open on Decembr 28th*

Line 6 phase I, Line 9 north section, Line 10 phase II, Line 8 phase II will open on the same day (12/28), adding 70km to current metro system. 

The total metro length will be *442km *by the end of this year.









Line 6 Chegongzhuang station

source


----------



## :jax:

Yep, 2012 is another good year for Beijing metro expansion, though by Wikipedia there will be a dearth of openings next year, only a south-western sliver of line 14. 2014 should be a good year again.


----------



## saiho

^^ well I'm having suspicions that 2013 is missing some lines as the "Lines awaiting construction" section hasn't been updated in a while. Look at the Yangfang line.


----------



## big-dog

Predictions from local forumers:

2013: Line 14 West, Line 8 phase II south, Changping, ChangBa (Changping-line 8 connection)
2014: Line 6 Phase II, Line 7, Line 14, Line 15 West, Xijiao Line
2015: Changping Line phase II, L2, Yanfang
2016: Line 6 West
2017: Line 8 phase III, Line 16, Shanhou Line
2018: Line 3 West, Line 3 East, (Pinggu Line)
2019: Line 12, R2
2020: Line 3 Middle, R1, S6, New Airport line, (Pinggu Line)

ditiezu.com


----------



## saiho

very interesting Beijing's subway will be huge. Where exactly is the Pinggu Line planned to go? Also why the hell does the yangfang line have a forced transfer with the fangshan line. I know Beijing loves separating its urban lines from its suburban lines but is there really a need for suburban lineception?


----------



## big-dog

Beijing Subway Map by the end of 2012










by chensiqiongjz, ditiezu.com


----------



## Falubaz

That's really cool and fast! But i wonder, why the southern part of Beijing is so neglected by metro? Comparing to the other parts of the city, it has really poor service.


----------



## Silly_Walks

Falubaz said:


> That's really cool and fast! But i wonder, why the southern part of Beijing is so neglected by metro? Comparing to the other parts of the city, it has really poor service.


They're working on it.


----------



## big-dog

Falubaz said:


> That's really cool and fast! But i wonder, why the southern part of Beijing is so neglected by metro? Comparing to the other parts of the city, it has really poor service.


Northern Beijing is more developed than Southern Beijing. Beijing's economic center is north of its geographic center (Tian'anmen). For example people can see more activity and better infrastructure on North 4th Ring than Southern 3rd Ring.


----------



## saiho

big-dog said:


> Beijing Subway Map by the end of 2012
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by chensiqiongjz, ditiezu.com


wait I thought line 8 will connect to line 6, and the entire line 10 loop will be completed by the end of 2012.


----------



## big-dog

^^ that couple of stations on dotted line are still question marks. It might not be finished by this year. Let's wait and see.


----------



## saiho

^^ I really hope the line 8 section in question gets completed on time. Line 6 is possibly the most important relief corridor ATM. It needs those connections to be fully utilized or everyone will just pile on to the congested line 2.


----------



## CarlosBlueDragon

hello all friends
help me

can i ask u all,

Line 15 was Opened from Wangjing west to Fengbo???

We want to go 798 art by subway + taxi??

first line 2 to Dongzhimen station,
then changing line 13 to Wangjing West,
then changing line 15 to Wangjing,
then take a taxi to 798 art ??? so easy or no??

answer let me know! thanks


----------



## Woonsocket54

exploremetro blog
http://www.exploremetro.com/blog/beijing-subway-line-8-the-olympic-line-gets-longer



> *Beijing Subway Line 8: The Olympic Line gets longer*
> 
> This week we’re previewing the new lines expected to open in Shanghai and Beijing in December 2012. Today, Beijing Line 8!
> 
> Beijing Subway Line 8 initially opened with a small stretch between Beitucheng and South Gate of Forest Park in time for the 2008 Olympics, and ferried spectators to the Olympic Stadium. Last year a northern extension connected it to Line 13 at Huoying, and this year we expect a southern extension which should connect Line 8 to Line 2 at Guoloudajie, making Line 8 much more accessible from central Beijing. There are two intervening stations between Beitucheng and Guoloudajie: Anhuaqiao should open in December, while Andelibeijie will open at a later date.
> 
> Line 8 should look like this by the end of the year (click to enlarge!):


----------



## big-dog

New metro train 

Made by China South Locomotive & Rolling Stock Corporation, the new train will run on Beijing Metro line 14 in 2013










--weibo


----------



## Silly_Walks

^^


Looks like the Harbin metro!

Same manufacturer and model?


----------



## saiho

Silly_Walks said:


> ^^
> 
> 
> Looks like the Harbin metro!
> 
> Same manufacturer and model?


same manufacturer but different model. If you look look closely it has 5 doors per car per side....

OMG ITS AN A-SIZE TRAIN the rumours are true line 14 will use high capacity A size stock.:banana::lol::nuts:

but ya the Harbin metro uses B size stock. So this is pretty much just an up-sized Harbin metro train.:cheers:


----------



## Pedro EM

Like the interior. But the Chinese know how to get things done unlike the Europeans who seem to take forever trying to sort out their red tape issues.


----------



## saiho

Pedro EM said:


> Like the interior. But the Chinese know how to get things done unlike the Europeans who seem to take forever trying to sort out their red tape issues.


Still Europe is better than North America who seem to take forever trying to figure out why they need public transit and then take forever trying to sort out their red tape issues.hno:


----------



## webeagle12

Pedro EM said:


> Like the interior. But the Chinese know how to get things done unlike the Europeans who seem to take forever trying to sort out their red tape issues.


I guess you never been in US where nothing gets accomplished at all.


----------



## hmmwv

big-dog said:


> New metro train
> 
> Made by China South Locomotive & Rolling Stock Corporation, the new train will run on Beijing Metro line 14 in 2013
> 
> --weibo


I like the evacuation ramp, most others flip down the door and use it as a ramp, as a result it's much steeper.


----------



## big-dog

*Four lines to open on December 30th 2012*


Line 10 phase II
Line 6
Line 8 phase II
Line 9 North

The new lines will add *70km* to Beijing Subway and make it a *442km* metro network.

In 2013 four sections will open (22km), including Line 14 west, Line 8 Gulou to Art Library, Changping-Batong connection line, Line 10 remaining stations.

Source: Beijing Subway Opening


----------



## saiho

big-dog said:


> *Four lines to open on December 30th 2012*
> 
> 
> Line 10 phase II
> Line 6
> Line 8 phase II
> Line 9 North
> 
> The new lines will add *70km* to Beijing Subway and make it a *442km* metro network.
> 
> In 2013 four sections will open (22km), including Line 14 west, Line 8 Gulou to Art Library, Changping-Batong connection line, Line 10 remaining stations.
> 
> Source: Beijing Subway Opening


What is the Changping-Batong connection line? It sounds intense cause Batong and Changping are like on opposite sides of the city or is that the line 8 north extension to the Changping line?


----------



## xavier114fch

saiho said:


> What is the Changping-Batong connection line? It sounds intense cause Batong and Changping are like on opposite sides of the city or is that the line 8 north extension to the Changping line?


It should be Chang-ba connection (昌八聯絡線 in Chinese). Literally it means the connection line between Line 8 and Changping Line, and it is actually the northern extension of Line 8 to Zhuxinzhuang Station.


----------



## CNGL

That was exactly my though, I was surprised with a connection from North to East Beijing but then I realized was line 8 North (West). I believe this happened because the first hanzi for Batong is also number 8.


----------



## saiho

CNGL said:


> That was exactly my though, I was surprised with a connection from North to East Beijing but then I realized was line 8 North (West). I believe this happened because the first hanzi for Batong is also number 8.


 Yes the hanzi for ba in batong is 8 in Chinese.


----------



## xavier114fch

big-dog said:


> *Four lines to open on December 30th 2012*
> 
> 
> Line 10 phase II
> Line 6
> Line 8 phase II
> Line 9 North
> 
> The new lines will add *70km* to Beijing Subway and make it a *442km* metro network.
> 
> In 2013 four sections will open (22km), including Line 14 west, Line 8 Gulou to Art Library, Changping-Batong connection line, Line 10 remaining stations.
> 
> Source: Beijing Subway Opening


Line 14 West (7 stations from Xiqu) is scheduled to finish on 5/5/2013, and people are expecting the remaining stations of Line 10 can be open together with Line 14 West.


----------



## big-dog

Xavier is correct. It's line 8 not Batong.


----------



## xizhimen

*Beijing Subway to be the longest subway network in the world,Shanghai No.2*



> Beijing Subway line 6 to start operation by year-end
> 2012-09-26 08:59:13 GMT2012-09-26 16:59:13(Beijing Time) SINA.com
> 
> By Zhao Wei, Sina English
> 
> Beijing Subway line 6, which is another major line connecting Beijing’s East and West, is scheduled to start operation on December 28 this year, according to Beijing Municipal Transport Committee.
> 
> The Line 6, which runs almost parallel to the Line 1, is expected to ease congestion and increase transport capability by 30%.
> 
> Beijing currently has 15 subway lines that span 372 kilometers. By the end of this year, *another four lines will be open, extending the coverage to 440 kilometers, making Beijing Subway the longest subway network in the world.*
> 
> The four new lines that will start running by the end of 2012 are line 6, which connects the city’s East and West; line 10, which will become Beijing’s second loop line once completed; extension of line 8, connecting northern suburbs and the city centre; and extension of line 9 will link to the Beijing West Railway Station.


----------



## Linguine

amazing...


----------



## domtoren

*Gorgeous! But is it freely possible to take photos in the subway?*

I am reaaly astonished by the modern that this metro system in Peking is. 
I am also surprised that these images are possible, I thought that in China taking photos of such infrastructure is subject to restrictions and prohibitions due to fear of spying and terrorism. 
In Holland, where I live, I have had a few times problems with police or security people who seem to suffer acute espionitis, when I was taking photos in the metro or rail stations and other SSC and rail forum photographers had similar problems, in reality there is no law which forbids it (in Cold War times it was prohibited but the ban was lifted in 1967), the point is that police and security people seem to like to bother photographers instead of catching thieves. How is the legal situation in China regarding rail photos and do policemen respect the law or do they forbid things allowed by the law?


----------



## oliver999

domtoren said:


> I am reaaly astonished by the modern that this metro system in Peking is.
> I am also surprised that these images are possible, I thought that in China taking photos of such infrastructure is subject to restrictions and prohibitions due to fear of spying and terrorism.
> In Holland, where I live, I have had a few times problems with police or security people who seem to suffer acute espionitis, when I was taking photos in the metro or rail stations and other SSC and rail forum photographers had similar problems, in reality there is no law which forbids it (in Cold War times it was prohibited but the ban was lifted in 1967), the point is that police and security people seem to like to bother photographers instead of catching thieves. How is the legal situation in China regarding rail photos and do policemen respect the law or do they forbid things allowed by the law?


in this field( not something about political), china is as free as western countries.


----------



## saiho

*shanghai might still be the longest*



xizhimen said:


> *Beijing Subway to be the longest subway network in the world,Shanghai No.2*


That might be wrong. The pic assumes shanghai doesn't open any new trackage, which it does. The deal breaker is if line 12 opens in time cause idk at this point.
Shanghai by 
2011=424.8km (excluding maglev, line 22 and not double counting 3/4)
2012=446.2km (lines 12 phase 1, 13 phase 1 opened) 

beijing by
2011=372.0km
2012=442.1km (line 6 phase 1,8 south,9 north,10 phase 2 opens)


----------



## xizhimen

That's the official report,besides,Beijing has more lines currently under construction than Shanghai's.


----------



## saiho

Well its still anyone's game in 2012 but by mid-2013 chances are its beijing but its still a close race.

http://www.exploremetro.com/blog/su...ng-finish-the-year-with-a-longer-metro-system


----------



## Nightsky

Impressive! Some stations look really nice


----------



## saiho

xizhimen said:


> That's the official report,besides,Beijing has more lines currently under construction than Shanghai's.


Lines U/C that doesn't mean anything in large subway systems. Shanghai has more lines than Beijing (batong-1, fangsheng-9 etc i count as one line cause they effectively are one line); much of Shanghai activity is concentrated in line extensions as opposed to new lines. What you need to look at is absolute line length. Of course beijing's U/C length value seems higher (i think?). But at the end of the day its still anyone's game in 2012 even by mid-2013 chances are its still a close race. The game changer is shanghai metro line 16 opening next year @ 59km long. Being China once the new lines open a whole new round of groundbreaking will follow. I wouldn't count on anything right now.

http://www.exploremetro.com/blog/su...ng-finish-the-year-with-a-longer-metro-system


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

saiho said:


> Lines U/C that doesn't mean anything in large subway systems. Shanghai has more lines than Beijing (batong-1, fangsheng-9 etc i count as one line cause they effectively are one line); much of Shanghai activity is concentrated in line extensions as opposed to new lines. What you need to look at is absolute line length. Of course beijing's U/C length value seems higher (i think?). But at the end of the day its still anyone's game in 2012 even by mid-2013 chances are its still a close race. The game changer is shanghai metro line 16 opening next year @ 59km long. Being China once the new lines open a whole new round of groundbreaking will follow. I wouldn't count on anything right now.
> 
> http://www.exploremetro.com/blog/su...ng-finish-the-year-with-a-longer-metro-system


Shanghai's line 22 is already open and not counted in the length calculation. Therefore, there is a good chance that line 16 won't be counted either.


----------



## christos-greece

Thanks for those updated info. Post more photos please


----------



## saiho

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> Shanghai's line 22 is already open and not counted in the length calculation. Therefore, there is a good chance that line 16 won't be counted either.


line 16 has a good chance of counting. It uses 3rd rail power and is fully grade separated and self contained. Line 22 is blatantly commuter rail with mixed traffic operation and mainline rolling stock. If anything line 16 is like BART; the only thing that i think would disqualify it as a metro line is that it has huge stop spacing (like 5km).


----------



## chornedsnorkack

And since 26th of December, Beijing West shall be served by Longhua-Beijing high speed railway. How convenient shall Line 9, as of 30th, be to reach Beijing West station from all places around Beijing?


----------



## saiho

^^For starters its finally connected to the network. It will have transfers to 1, 4, 6, 10 and fangshan.


----------



## :jax:

Based on Beijing West and Being South today it will be far better than the alternatives. The traffic situation around Beijing West is a mess. Driving, taking a bus or a taxi is singularly unattractive. The HSR system moves a frighteningly high number of passengers around. I have taken taxi a couple times from Beijing South, and the taxi queues are the longest I have seen in my life, even with two rows of continuously arriving taxies they are also among the slowest. You can spend longer waiting in line than it took you to travel from Tianjin in the first place. 

The metro system is somewhat overwhelmed too, but at least it can handle it, 2-3 metro trains seem enough to take the surge from one HSR train. 

My dream would be a Beijing HSR circle line connecting the HSR stations around the city (and allow you to travel from one end of the city to another in less than an hour). That doesn't quite seem to happen, but a few tunnels and higher-speed metro are proposed.


----------



## SimFox

Map of a Beijing underground on the Metro station building from Tropico4 Modern Times:


----------



## big-dog

^^ that doesn't include the lines to be opened by the end of this year (2012). After this week Beijing Subway might be the longest of the kind in the world?


----------



## Falubaz

I think Shanghai will still be the longest metro in the World after adding pretty much to the system in Beijing in this phase. But in the future Beijing might build more and surpass Shanghai.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

This year Shanghai is not adding so much to its mileage, unfortunately.


----------



## :jax:

2013 is not going to be a big year in Beijing either, mostly finishing touches on 2014 plus a "prequel" to 2014, another great year. From an earlier post:


big-dog said:


> Predictions from local forumers:
> 
> 2013: Line 14 West, Line 8 phase II south, Changping, ChangBa (Changping-line 8 connection)
> 2014: Line 6 Phase II, Line 7, Line 14, Line 15 West, Xijiao Line
> 2015: Changping Line phase II, L2, Yanfang
> 2016: Line 6 West
> 2017: Line 8 phase III, Line 16, Shanhou Line
> 2018: Line 3 West, Line 3 East, (Pinggu Line)
> 2019: Line 12, R2
> 2020: Line 3 Middle, R1, S6, New Airport line, (Pinggu Line)
> 
> ditiezu.com


Add to this the southwestern bite of line 10.

Initially I was confused by "Line 8 phase II south", but that was just the missing few stations connecting line 8 with line 6, not the more significant expansion southward, Wangfujing-Qianmen-Dahongmen-beyond, listed for 2017 above.


----------



## big-dog

*12.30 Four new subway lines open today*

They are Line 6 phase I, Line 8 phase II south, Line 9 north and Line 10 phase II. The new lines will add 69.8km to the current network, which totals 442km, 261 stations and 37 interchanges.

Source


----------



## The Chemist

_Night City Dream_ said:


> This year Shanghai is not adding so much to its mileage, unfortunately.


Yes, but there will be quite a bit next year and in 2014.


----------



## :jax:

big-dog said:


> *12.30 Four new subway lines open today*
> 
> They are Line 6 phase I, Line 8 phase II south, Line 9 north and Line 10 phase II. The new lines will add 69.8km to the current network, which totals 442km, 261 stations and 37 interchanges.
> 
> Source


Yep, the Wikipedia map is updated already. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Beijing-Subway_en.png


----------



## Falubaz

^^ There is also oficial map with the the new line 6 plus 3 extentions on lines 8,9 and 10


----------



## foxmulder

Shanghai bumped into 2nd place, huh


----------



## big-dog

Line 10 replaces Line 1 to become the busiest metro line of Beijing




























--sina.com


----------



## :jax:

Any other news on traffic patterns? It would be natural to think that 1 is relieved with the 6, which could part explain 10 passing it, but maybe 1 is just as busy as ever. 8 and 9 were far down the ranking, but now that they are getting more properly connected that might change. 6 should be the new east-west backbone, how does it fare relative to 1?


----------



## Falubaz

Are they queueing?
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx216/davidwei01/2013Shanghai/2841_223021_411292.jpg
A rare thing in chinese metros!


----------



## Abhishek901

big-dog said:


> Line 10 replaces Line 1 to become the busiest metro line of Beijing
> 
> --sina.com


What's the ridership for Line 10?


----------



## idoke

Falubaz said:


> Are they queueing?
> http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx216/davidwei01/2013Shanghai/2841_223021_411292.jpg
> A rare thing in chinese metros!


In Beijing people do queue. Many queue also in bus stops.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

:jax: said:


> Yes, for the moment Beijing metro is largest in the world, measured in system length, that should change later in favour of Shanghai. On the other hand I believe the Beijing line 10 will the largest ring when completed and probably the longest metro tunnel already.


Seems that it is not correct data. Shanghai has got now 446 km of tracks.


----------



## cfredo

Falubaz said:


> Are they queueing?
> http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx216/davidwei01/2013Shanghai/2841_223021_411292.jpg
> A rare thing in chinese metros!


Yes, it's not that unusual, but there are always some guys who don't play by the rules and the others think "**** it! Why should I?!?"...and then all the queueing is gone...:lol:


----------



## big-dog

Abhishek901 said:


> What's the ridership for Line 10?


1.3256 million (Jan 4th).


----------



## :jax:

The station in the pictures is Guomao (Beijing CBD), one of the busiest, if not the busiest, transfer stations in the whole system. It is my favourite station for showing Beijing crowds, and not just mine. You would commonly find somebody making a video record in the tunnels connecting lines 1 and 10 during the rush. You could find scenes like this before phase II too, in the morning rush. In any case it feels safer than lines 1 and 2 that have no glass wall to the train, and 10 has been much less crowded than 1, 2, 5, and Batong, and also less than 4.


----------



## dale88

cfredo said:


> Yes, it's not that unusual, but there are always some guys who don't play by the rules and the others think "**** it! Why should I?!?"...and then all the queueing is gone...:lol:


Haha, that hasn't changed at least since the last time I went to China (2010):lol:

I think the southern provinces, especially Guandong and cities like Shenzhen or around Guangzhou where many workers from other provincies work in factories, are much more "disorganized".

I mean no queuing, people crossing the road wherever they want and from what I saw, much of this mess involves immigrant workers.

In that contrast I found Beijing people and Shanghainese much more "organized", but I may be wrong.

dale88


----------



## :jax:

Beijing is one of the most disorganised cities I've been to in China, but the metro queuing culture is fine (a bit of a scramble when the doors open and there is no queue, but not really worse than other cities inside or outside China).


----------



## city_thing

big-dog said:


> Line 10 replaces Line 1 to become the busiest metro line of Beijing


Would that make it the busiest metro line in all of China (including the HKSAR) then? Or would the MTR's Island Line be busier...?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Could you tell me all exact and possible information on the rolling stock for Beijing metro per lines? Interested in cars' dimensions, manufacturer and photos. Thanks.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

city_thing said:


> Would that make it the busiest metro line in all of China (including the HKSAR) then? Or would the MTR's Island Line be busier...?


Actually, about that Island Line...

Island Line has 14 stations in 12,3 km, and covers the distance in 25 minutes.

But it is mostly parallel to the tram line - with 50+ stops in the same 13 km, and taking 80 minutes.

Does Beijing also need street level trams to supplement the metro?


----------



## Falubaz

Trams? They have buses and trolleybuses. What they need is just more metros and suburban railways. Trams would be too slow for this huge city and cost a lot imo.


----------



## :jax:

At least in "new cities" like Tongzhou there are plans for local tram to complement the metro, for town traffic. I have also seen tram proposals for Guomao/Beijing CBD, roughly bounded by 10 and 14 North-South and 1 and 6 East-West. It would make sense, Beijing stations are relatively distant. Surface rail to bring travellers closer to their destination or for local transport would fit in nicely.

I hope line 10 isn't too "busy" though it has a lot of traffic. It is now a very long line, with many stations to travel by. However the frequency is, still I believe, relatively low with regular 6 car trains. It used to be busiest between the 5 and 1 interchanges, lowest traffic end station (Bagou) to 4 interchange and 1 to end (Jinsong). Where it is busiest now I don't know.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

Falubaz said:


> Trams? They have buses and trolleybuses. What they need is just more metros and suburban railways. Trams would be too slow for this huge city and cost a lot imo.


Beijing metro has 442 km and 261 stops, so about 1700 m on average between stops. 850 m walk from a metro station to a spot between stations on line, and naturally even longer to spots between lines.

Has Beijing built new trolleybus lines to serve newly opened metro stations?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Tram is the most sustainable kind of transport, actuallu. And I really do not understand why China spends so miuch money on building metros while neglecting tram at all.


----------



## particlez

Falubaz has it right. There's no pragmatic point to having non grade separated rail transit in Beijing, or other large, densely populated cities. Is there a point to having a surface tram line through present-day Manhattan?

Street-level trams could work somewhere on the outskirts though. Eventually express lines will be built like the Parisian RER or even Hong Kong's west and east lines. But the initial focus should be on extending mass transit to the still unserved areas.

The Hong Kong island streetcar is a great tourist attraction and works for people who WANT to waste time, but it's mind-numbingly slow. It has to stop for pedestrians and left turning cars in addition to any number of intersections. Even synchronized red lights would be of little help because there is so much traffic and congestion everywhere. In this case, the bus is faster as it can switch lanes and get around obstacles.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

particlez said:


> Falubaz has it right. There's no pragmatic point to having non grade separated rail transit in Beijing, or other large, densely populated cities. Is there a point to having a surface tram line through present-day Manhattan?


I think yes.


particlez said:


> Street-level trams could work somewhere on the outskirts though. Eventually express lines will be built like the Parisian RER or even Hong Kong's west and east lines. But the initial focus should be on extending mass transit to the still unserved areas.


Precisely. Such as the gaps between metro stations and lines.


particlez said:


> The Hong Kong island streetcar is a great tourist attraction and works for people who WANT to waste time, but it's mind-numbingly slow.


80 minutes for 13 km. Meaning about 10 km/h.

Walking is on the average 5 km/h - IF the pedestrian does not have to wait for traffic lights and zebras.

How does the speed of Hong Kong tram compare against pedestrians (INCL. stops at intersections)? And how does Hong Kong tram speed compare against bicycles (again including stops at intersections)?


----------



## particlez

*in my previous post, I should have said RIGHT turns, not left turns

The tram's speed is usually faster than pedestrian speed. Except when the tram itself is stuck behind other loading/unloading trams, red lights, etc. Riding a bicycle through central Hong Kong sounds more like an action movie than a plausible alternative. If you don't worry about safety, I'm sure the bike would be faster than any form of surface transport. The tram line also has a spur to Happy Valley, so riders will have to pay attention before boarding the tram. 80 minutes seems quick for the entire journey. Without traffic, maybe. 

The tram won't be dismantled, and it's hugely attractive to tourists and photography fans (your views aren't obstructed by glass), but it's not as flexible as the bus, and obviously much slower than the subway.

The tram is useful in the areas that are not served by the MTR, namely the far western island and Happy Valley. The traffic in these areas isn't as intense, so the tram moves a bit faster too.


----------



## :jax:

Trams mixed in traffic make no sense, except where the traffic is low, or for tourist purpose (like the Qianmen and future Western Suburban trams). Separate lanes dedicated for tram or BRT only make sense when traffic warrant it, which it definitely would do in much of Beijing (or Manhattan). Whether BRT or tram is mostly a question of economics and comfort. Modern trams are more comfortable than busses, but also more expensive. Metro is superior in throughput and longer distance travel, but like with Beijing CBD, a metro station at every skyscraper is not a viable alternative, and it takes about 5 minutes to get into and 5 minutes to get out of a Beijing metro station. That is not attractive for short trips.


----------



## saiho

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Tram is the most sustainable kind of transport, actuallu. And I really do not understand why China spends so miuch money on building metros while neglecting tram at all.


Trams are a waste of time in China in most situations at this stage of the game. If you want something quick and cheap to implement you build BRT if you want something fast and high capacity you build a metro. Tram/LRT is a nice mix of the two but transit situations in china are so polarized that there is not need for them. You either need a cheap feeder connection or a high capacity trunk line to a huge swath of the city. However in more established systems like Beijing and Shanghai I think we will see more LRT/tram projects showing up in the near future. 



:jax: said:


> Trams mixed in traffic make no sense, except where the traffic is low, or for tourist purpose (like the Qianmen and future Western Suburban trams). Separate lanes dedicated for tram or BRT only make sense when traffic warrant it, which it definitely would do in much of Beijing (or Manhattan). Whether BRT or tram is mostly a question of economics and comfort. Modern trams are more comfortable than busses, but also more expensive. Metro is superior in throughput and longer distance travel, but like with Beijing CBD, a metro station at every skyscraper is not a viable alternative, and it takes about 5 minutes to get into and 5 minutes to get out of a Beijing metro station. That is not attractive for short trips.


Given the way the stop spacings of many Chinese metros are handled (too long for local traffic too short for metropolitan/crosstown traffic) I would say 10-20 years from now there will be an explosion of circulator, tram and/or AGT systems feeding into the metro and the emergence of RER-like crosstown rapid railways.


----------



## The Chemist

city_thing said:


> Would that make it the busiest metro line in all of China (including the HKSAR) then? Or would the MTR's Island Line be busier...?


Nope, Shanghai Metro's Line 2 is busier.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

saiho said:


> Trams are a waste of time in China in most situations at this stage of the game. If you want something quick and cheap to implement you build BRT if you want something fast and high capacity you build a metro.


What is involved in "building" a "BRT"?


----------



## particlez

saiho said:


> Given the way the stop spacings of many Chinese metros are handled (too long for local traffic too short for metropolitan/crosstown traffic) I would say 10-20 years from now there will be an explosion of circulator, tram and/or AGT systems feeding into the metro and the emergence of RER-like crosstown rapid railways.


They should extend functional mass transit throughout the urbanized areas before contemplating express lines and/or mini metros. The Paris metro was around a long time before the RER came into existence.


----------



## particlez

BRTs can range from express bus lines to "almost" elevated light rail lines. Beijing has large distances and high congestion, so surface traffic is bound to be slow. A functional BRT would most likely have grade separation, and that's really not so different from traditional mass transit.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

particlez said:


> BRTs can range from express bus lines to "almost" elevated light rail lines.


Precisely.

An "express" bus is exactly a bus which skips stops. Which a metro is doing anyway.

So what about public transit that makes stops, and serves areas between metro stops and lines?

How about expanding trolley lines to serve the newly opened metro stations?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Still, A bus even BRT-like can get aboard 100 passengers, no more while a good articulated tram might take about 300. And building a tram line is just a bit more expensive than a BRT line and at the same time way less costly than a metro line.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Could you tell me all exact and possible information on the rolling stock for Beijing metro per lines? Interested in cars' dimensions, manufacturer and photos. Thanks.


Any info?


----------



## :jax:

big-dog said:


> *Planning*
> 
> 
> By the end of 2015 Beijing metro will add 133km to reach 575km
> Line 8 phase III appropved, Wangfujing to Wufutang, 16km, 14.4 billion yuan
> New airport line approved, Beijing South to new airport, 37km
> Line 16 approved, 36km
> By 2016 existing metro plus U/C is 664km
> 3 lines on planning stage: Line 3, Line 12 and Northeast line
> 
> --Beijing Daily


Northeast would be the 17 line, right? Any planned intermediate metro stations between Beijing South and Daxing airport? Reports claim "The new airport, to be called Beijing Daxing International Airport, is scheduled to open in 2017. The recently released plans show a new hub that will cover 55 square kilometers (about 21 square miles) and include eight runways. 

Plans also show an integrated ground transportation hub, which will shuttle passengers into Beijing with a journey time of 30 minutes on a high-speed railway. A slower route on the city's underground will also be available." And a rail link between the two airports is reported as well (without any details given). 

What is the exact location of this airport, any Google Maps outline or similar?


----------



## dale88

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Still, A bus even BRT-like can get aboard 100 passengers, no more while a good articulated tram might take about 300. And building a tram line is just a bit more expensive than a BRT line and at the same time way less costly than a metro line.


Yes Trams are very efficient way to replace BRT lines, much more capacity than a articulated bus, but at the same time much less work than a building a metro line.

Take the example of Paris who just opened and extended a tram line which run on the "boulevard marechaux" (the continuous boulevard which encircle Paris and act as a separation between Paris and the near suburb)

The line T3a and T3b if put together cover 22km which is about 65% of the boulevard marechaux










T3a which covers the 12,5km distance of the line in about 27 minutes (before that, the articulated buses with reserved bus lanes needed at least 55 minutes)

T3b needs 25 minutes for the 10km it covers (part of the line has steep slope). The artics needed 1 full hour if not more to cover the same distance.

In terms of trafic, T3a already transported 40 millions passengers per year before the extension, so it is a very useful line.

Also another advantage compared to buses, trams use electric power which is much cheaper and much powerful than diesel powered buses, so the speeds are much more higher.

Some stretch allow a speed of 60-70km/h (all of that in the middle of a boulevard, separated from cars but with grade crossings).

So being to see by myself how this changed the transportation landscape of Paris, I really do think Chinese cities should consider trams and not always think of BRTs or metro lines.

dale88


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## Woonsocket54

dale88 said:


> I really do think Chinese cities should consider trams and not always think of BRTs or metro lines.


Kaohsiung is building a circular tram line kind of like Paris


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## saiho

chornedsnorkack said:


> What is involved in "building" a "BRT"?


My point exactly. Just build stations in the middle of the road and paint some lines. Quick and Dirty



particlez said:


> They should extend functional mass transit throughout the urbanized areas before contemplating express lines and/or mini metros.


That's why I said 10-20 years from now. By say 2030, all Tier I cities will have a beast of a network and most Tier 2 cities will have a well developed network.



particlez said:


> The Paris metro was around a long time before the RER came into existence.


Paris had Transilien for a long time pre-RER. China has NOTHING but metros.



_Night City Dream_ said:


> Any info?


all B size trains at the moment 2.8m wide 19m long


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## :jax:

Metro and trains are the only modes of transport that can move massive amounts of people around from point to point, but the role of busses is often ignored. They are taking the brunt of Beijing's transportation need and will continue doing so. When not stuck in traffic they can be faster than metro, also long distance. The nearest bus stop will always be nearer than the nearest metro station, and it only takes a minute to enter a bus contrasted with five to descend into the maw of the metro.

Metro wins on convenience and predictability. It may not be fastest but you have a pretty good idea when you will arrive, and you have a pretty good idea what lines to take. With busses you don't know when they arrive, where they are going, and how long it will take them to get there. Even with Google Maps or equivalent it is a bit of a challenge.

Most of Beijing is covered by public transport, except at night time, leaving two major problems, traffic and integration. The backbone of the transport system, the busses, express busses, and trolley busses, spend most of their day stuck in traffic. An extended BRT system would liberate these buses to ship a lot more people much faster. (An LRT system could be faster still, but I agree it may not be the best system for most cities yet, or for the most part. Chinese cities are changing fast, and it is more expensive to lay and uproot tracks. In some cases it might be a relatively inexpensive alternative to metro.)

Beijing has many modes of transportation, airplanes, high speed rail, regional and local rail, metro, BRT light, different types of busses, silly tourist trams, funicular, cars, trucks,motorcycles, bicycles and other human-powered vehicles, pedestrians, horse carts, taxis and bicycle taxis. Low-speed maglev, canal tourist boats and who knows straddling busses are planned. Pick a mode of transportation, chances are you will find it in Beijing. 

Most accept Yikatong, a success story, and the bus system is integrated, but overwhelming in number of busses and lines, and not well signed and without a realtime information system. But the rail system in particular is not integrated with the rest, nor with itself.


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## chornedsnorkack

saiho said:


> Paris had Transilien for a long time pre-RER. China has NOTHING but metros.


China does have railways.

For example, take the existing railway Beijing-Zhangjiakou.
It has a number of stations in Beijing:
Qinghuayuan 
Qinghe
Shahe
Changping
Nankou
Dongyuan
Juyongguan
Sanpu
Qinglongqiao
Badaling
Xibozi
Kangzhuang.

The problem lies with use.

How many passenger trains saily now actually stop at, say, Kangzhuang station?
And how many trains ought to serve that route?


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## saiho

chornedsnorkack said:


> China does have railways.
> 
> For example, take the existing railway Beijing-Zhangjiakou.
> It has a number of stations in Beijing:
> Qinghuayuan
> Qinghe
> Shahe
> Changping
> Nankou
> Dongyuan
> Juyongguan
> Sanpu
> Qinglongqiao
> Badaling
> Xibozi
> Kangzhuang.
> 
> The problem lies with use.
> 
> How many passenger trains saily now actually stop at, say, Kangzhuang station?
> And how many trains ought to serve that route?


Exactly its not the physical infrastructure i'm talking about its the service and how the corridors are used. Beijing has railways flying in all directions but regional and suburban service is non existent apart from S2 which you talked about.


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## particlez

saiho said:


> My point exactly. Just build stations in the middle of the road and paint some lines. Quick and Dirty
> Paris had Transilien for a long time pre-RER. China has NOTHING but metros.


I thought we were talking about tramlines (like the Hong Kong tram line) running on surface streets through the city? There's a huge difference between short distance, slow speed tramways and RER-like suburban commuter rail/urban express lines.

Trams are comfortable and can transport large numbers of people. However tramways like the Hong Kong tram wouldn't be efficient through much of central Beijing because of the existing congestion. You'd simply run into too much traffic; left turning cars, other trams loading/unloading/red lights/stalled vehicles in intersections/etc. The trams are railed vehicles, and do not have the flexibility to move around the obstructions.

You could argue that placing dedicated tracks over previous traffic lanes would set aside room, and you'd be right. However many of the wheeled vehicles are service vehicles and have no alternative than to make the remaining lanes even more congested.

The Parisian tramlines don't run through the most congested parts of the city. The long-term plans have the lines being built outside the core. Even though Paris' boulevards are famously wide, you won't see tramlines from ultra busy areas like Les Halles to the Arc de Triomphe. It would be great for tourists and photography buffs, but it'd be snail-like in speed.

The Transilien and RER aren't the same. One is the old commuter rail, and the RER setup has allowed the commuter trains to function as express lines via the heart of Paris. It's NOT the same as surface trams. The RER has its own dedicated, underground tracks. Paris is a gold standard of urban transport, and Beijing still needs to fill in the gaps in its service area before it should contemplate a similar system.


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## hmmwv

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Still, A bus even BRT-like can get aboard 100 passengers, no more while a good articulated tram might take about 300. And building a tram line is just a bit more expensive than a BRT line and at the same time way less costly than a metro line.


I think for short travels between metro station even BRT is overkill, you might as well just catch a regular bus. A tram is not ideal for downtown Beijing because it travels on tracks, once a tram is mixed with automobile traffic it'll be chaos. If it's grade separated then it eats into the already scarce surface street area. BTW the 25m bus Beijing plans to buy to run on the BRT line has a capacity of about 230, in reality it'll probably take 300 in rush hour, the existing 18m BRT bus has a designed capacity of 200.


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## chornedsnorkack

particlez said:


> The Parisian tramlines don't run through the most congested parts of the city. The long-term plans have the lines being built outside the core. Even though Paris' boulevards are famously wide, you won't see tramlines from ultra busy areas like Les Halles to the Arc de Triomphe. It would be great for tourists and photography buffs, but it'd be snail-like in speed.


Paris does not have so urgent need for surface trams BECAUSE the Paris metro is so dense. With 214 km of lines in total and 301 stations which counting transfers comprise 384 stops, the average distance is just 548 m. Within the 87 square km of Paris city, there are 245 stations.

The central city of Beijing, of Dongcheng and Xicheng districts, is also 87 square km - exactly as big as Paris.

How many Beijing Subway stations are within the 87 square km of Dongcheng and Xicheng districts?


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## :jax:

Sure trams in congested areas should have right of way (shared with busses or even taxis in less intensely congested areas), likewise where there are no trams busses/BRTs should have right of way in congested areas.

Not only will trams/busses stuck in traffic mean slower and less attractive alternatives to cars (which would add to traffic in those areas), it also means that the costly trams and busses are less efficiently used. Right of way in those cases mean faster service with higher frequency. Win-win.


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## particlez

^those trams act more like mass transit than the old streetcars. if the city is big enough/traffic bad enough, even ROW/priority signalling/etc. don't help much. 

thus in these situations, might as well construct completely grade separated mass transit. people may complain about the distance between stations, but a solution would be to have more maneuverable feeder buses and parallel transit lines.


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## :jax:

That's why my argument
Low density ♥ busses, minibusses, bicycle taxis
Metro (medium-long distance) + tram (medium-short distance) = ♥

The multi-lane streets of Beijing makes right of way for trams/busses fairly easy. In the narrow historical core of many European cities ROW means that those streets are effectively closed for car traffic. 

Grade separation means that the cars are isolated from other traffic, but at a significant transfer cost for the passengers to get to the underground/elevated station. A neat trick could be to integrate elevated metro with local tram, but that is not an alternative around the CBD or other dense regions of Beijing.

(Again, I haven't looked at cost. A small tram network is expensive to run, but gets benefits of scale if larger.)


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## particlez

your solution would be more suited for the suburban areas or smaller cities. this whole convo started over a crazy assertion--congested central beijing needed a streetcar system. 

unfortunately beijing is especially large, and has high density too. closing off the streets will just direct more traffic to the remaining arterials, resulting in even worse traffic. those service vehicles will still remain and will waste even more time/pollute even more/clog up the streets even more. then you'll want (and need) grade separation at intersections. beijing is more akin to paris or new york than it is to vienna or other central european cities. 

would an at-grade tram work efficiently in central paris? manhattan?


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## Bannor

You can ride your bicycle faster than the speed of a european tram. In other words, China will increase their productivity by going back to bicycles ratehr than spending millions upon milloins on last millennium museum pieces. Yes, I despise trams! Light rail on the other hand can be sexy!


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## :jax:

particlez said:


> your solution would be more suited for the suburban areas or smaller cities. this whole convo started over a crazy assertion--congested central beijing needed a streetcar system.
> 
> unfortunately beijing is especially large, and has high density too. closing off the streets will just direct more traffic to the remaining arterials, resulting in even worse traffic.


Again, it is the very densest urban areas we are talking about. Few places are denser than the Beijing CBD, especially as planned for the future, and it is not a crazy assertion. I am not convinced it is a good idea, but for other reasons than density. 

But first maybe some definitions because the last comment ("trams bad, light rail good") made me wonder if we are talking about the same thing. I don't want to quarrel about the particulars, classification of vehicles on rail is about the most boring topic on the planet, but in this case trams = light rail. None of us want the quaint historical tourist-friendly cars you can find in Hong Kong. I use Wikipedia here for definitions.


> *A tram* (also known as a tramcar; a streetcar or street car; and a trolley, trolleycar, or trolley car) is a rail vehicle which runs on tracks along public urban streets (called street running), and also sometimes on separate rights of way.





> *Light rail* or light rail transit (LRT) is a form of public transport using a steel-tracked fixed guideway that operates primarily along an exclusive right of way and has vehicles capable of operating as a single unit or as multiple units coupled together.





> *A right of way* is a type of easement granted or reserved over the land for transportation purposes, such as for a footway, carriageway, trail, driveway, rail line or highway. [For a tram discussion we mean exclusive, no cars allowed, right of way]





> *Grade separation* is the method of aligning a junction of two or more surface transport axes at different heights (grades) so that they will not disrupt the traffic flow on other transit routes when they cross each other.


You can have trams that are not light rail, and vice versa, but that is not what we're interested in. And with metro I mean a (sub)urban public mass transport train system at any grade, just like in Beijing. The other words, like subway, tend to imply a particular grade. Metro might be light rail, but here we're talking heavy rail.

With that out of the way, trams/light rail is good at moving people. They move more people than busses can, and more comfortable too because they move along predetermined tracks. (I could imagine computer-asssisted busses, with the computer providing the "track", but those things don't exist yet.) They are also more energy efficient, tracks beats wheels. Cars is the worst alternative for throughput at high density and low speed (very few people on a large area), but beat pedestrians and bicyclists on higher speed (they can be densely packed, but don't move fast). They never beat busses, trams, or metro, assuming they have a reasonable occupancy rate. Even a tram without right of way stuck in traffic with the rest will move a lot more people than the cars they are stuck with will.

Getting into the Central Business District would best be done with metro (supplemented with busses, cars, tram lines for that matter), and not at street grade (tunnels or elevated). Getting around in the CBD would best be done with busses or trams with right of way at street level, supplemented with cars where the throughput need is not too high, taxis for the rest. If the CBD were designed like Toronto it could be below street level, if it were like Hong Kong it could be elevated (forgetting cost), but Beijing CBD is neither so local traffic should be at street level.

I am not sure trams will beat busses, but if the transport need is really high they would. My biggest concern would be that a tram breaks down or is blocked, so is the whole line until the obstacle is removed. With a larger network you can reroute, with a smaller network you would need high reliability. That comes at a cost.


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## particlez

You mentioned ROW. ROW =/= Grade separation. *ROW in the densest areas is still compromised by pedestrian crossings, slow-running/stopped trams in front, turning wheeled vehicles, vehicles stuck in intersections, etc*. The Hong Kong tram is a good example of ROW's limits. Those trams are definitely slower than the buses on the street, and sometimes slower than the pedestrians. By the time you talk about grade separation, you're moving into the realm of mass transit. Trams =/= mass transit. Thus, you might as well have short haul feeder buses + expansion of grade separated mass transit. 

Trams will NOT beat buses in areas like Central Beijing (or any other similarly large, similarly congested area). They look quaint, and can carry a lot of people, but are still hindered by every obstacle in the way. The bus can actually move around obstacles.

Thus if you're going to advocate for tramways (with ROW but without grade separation) in central Beijing, you might as well argue for tramways in the busiest, most congested parts of Paris, Tokyo, Manhattan, etc. It's not going to work. How many trams do you see in these places? Yet the buses can still function in the most congested areas.


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## particlez

the funny thing is, you mentioned that the trams will beat buses if the transport need is high. eh.. there are several factors involved.

-increasing demand for higher capacity will favor trams
-congestion will favor buses

it's a big reason why trams (without grade separation) do not fare well in the centers of large, congested cities.


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## big-dog

*Beijing and Shanghai metro ridership set new record on March 8th*

Beijing: 10.276 million
Shanghai: 8.486 million

by 上海轨道交通俱乐部


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## VECTROTALENZIS

how about other cities then?


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## :jax:

particlez said:


> You mentioned ROW. ROW =/= Grade separation. *ROW in the densest areas is still compromised by pedestrian crossings, slow-running/stopped trams in front, turning wheeled vehicles, vehicles stuck in intersections, etc*. The Hong Kong tram is a good example of ROW's limits. Those trams are definitely slower than the buses on the street, and sometimes slower than the pedestrians. By the time you talk about grade separation, you're moving into the realm of mass transit. Trams =/= mass transit. Thus, you might as well have short haul feeder buses + expansion of grade separated mass transit.


Hong Kong trams have no ROW, and have no relevance here. If you look at the total travel time, it is the time to get to the station, average waiting time (inverse of frequency), the travel time station to station (including transfers), and time to get from station to your destination. For surface transport the major component in Beijing is the time from station to station, stuck in traffic. 

Except the airport line, the 6 line, and future express lines, the Beijing metro doesn't go very fast, the distance to the nearest station is usually large, getting from the entrance to the train takes a long time (3-5 minutes, but some are quicker), and the transfer time/distance can be atrocious, but the frequency is high, and crucially there are no traffic jams. All in all metro is the best bet for getting to the Central Business District. But it is a poor choice for moving around inside the CBD.










Look at the CBD segment of the metro map for 2015 above. The CBD isn't particularly big, but metro is unlikely to be a mode of choice most trip within the CBD. It is too slow and too inconvenient. You would have to go to the nearest metro station, travel down to the platform, and likely transfer once or twice, all of which involve significant walking and add to the travel time. 

A tram/LRT or BRT with right of way would be affected by traffic and chaotic driving, even traffic lights, but I would assume that the route they travel will have priority at traffic junctions, and the trams/busses priority lights at that. For major junctions they could be grade separated as necessary. 

A bigger issue would be wait at the bus/tram stops. Some time will be lost by acceleration, but more by the time passengers use exiting and entering. Low floors, more doors, and wider doors will help the flow (though that may mean that the Yikatong would have to be on the honours system). Buses can run an express/local scheme with fewer/more stops, that is harder to achieve with trams.


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## _Night City Dream_

Bannor said:


> You can ride your bicycle faster than the speed of a european tram.


What??? European trams "fly" up to 80 km/h...


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## particlez

:jax: said:


> Hong Kong trams have no ROW


They actually do. Just that it's pretty meaningless when the path is blocked most of the time. Thus taking the Hong Kong Island tram is a pain during the weekdays, but actually makes sense late at night. 

The Beijing subway is compromised, but the solution to the issues is more subway lines and stations. Again, the urban planners aren't stupid. The system itself has not yet been completed. Apart from cost, there is no actual disadvantage to building more mass transit.

-the demand exists
-there are gaps in coverage



> A tram/LRT or BRT with right of way would be affected by traffic and chaotic driving, even traffic lights, but I would assume that the route they travel will have priority at traffic junctions, and the trams/busses priority lights at that. For major junctions they could be grade separated as necessary.


A local tram/BRT circulator has its purpose, but it will not alleviate the overcrowding on the existing lines, and unless it has full grade separation, it will get bogged down in the mess of local traffic. If you're going to have grade separation over the messy intersecting vehicular/pedestrian traffic, you might as well... 

There are fiscal conservatives who have argued against further subway expansion. They say cheaper alternatives can do the job more efficiently, and have even pointed to __________ streetcar city as an example. I really hope your editorial isn't influenced by them. BTW, the editors at Caixin serve more as lobbyists than as independent journalists.

Arguing for a streetcar > subway in central Beijing just doesn't make sense. "If" central Paris and Manhattan had Beijing's existing half-completed system and its gaps in coverage, would you advocate for subway expansion, or would you argue for lower capacity, sometimes at-grade streetcars?


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## Silly_Walks

_Night City Dream_ said:


> What??? European trams "fly" up to 80 km/h...


Here in Amsterdam some trams have an average speed of about 16-18 km/h. Their max speed is 70 km/h, but because of at-grade crossings, other traffic, etc., speed is often limited to 50 km/h. Most time lost is in the old city center.

Considering Paris metro's have an average speed of 20 km/h, the trams aren't performing all that bad, but on my bicycle I also get an average of 16-19 km/h in the old city center, so for me the tram is pretty useless.


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## Silly_Walks

Can't Beijing have moving walkways to fill the gap between metro stations? Beijing's sidewalks are very wide, and moving walkways can bring people to places that are in a gap of subway coverage.


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## :jax:

Then again the tram system in the old town of Amsterdam is the quintessential of quaint, it gets to the Central Station eventually, but by the least efficient mode possible. It is the only tram system I know of where trams share a single track in both directions, a track they share with _pedestrians_ (a good portion of which are stoned tourists).









The Beijing CBD, an area of maybe 2km x 3 km depending how you count (the CBD proper is even smaller, more like the London Square Mile). It is far away from "Beijing Old Town", a couple decades ago it was country-side, and has a Beijing-style grid system. A city block can range from 200m x 200m to 800m x 800m, there are not that many street crossings along a main artery, though each crossing is huge. 

I assume most traffic in the CBD is to/from a destination there, or bypassing traffic (particularly the 3rd and 4th ring road and the Jingtong radial) where the CBD is only an obstacle. Even so, that leaves a significant amount of short distance traffic (the longest possible trip would be around 3.5 km) involving a large amount of people.

Let's set up three scenarios:

The distance between metro stations is a little over 1 km on average. The biggest highrises cluster around those station, so the average distance to nearest metro station should be around 400m. That is 5 minutes at average walking speed, it will take an average of 3 minutes from the station to the platform or transfer, and 2 minute wait for the next train, and the train spends 1 minute at each station. Let's assume that a typical trip would be 2 stops with one transfer, and average speed of 50 km/h between station. This trip would be 19 minutes walking, 3 minutes waiting, and 3 minute traveling for a total of 25 minutes total traveling time.

The bus/tram scenario assumes more stations for 200m distance to the nearest station, 1 minute to enter/exit platform, 3 minute average wait, 1 minute to enter bus/tram, no transfer, but the route is twice as long as a straight line would be (4 km instead of 2 km), and a travel speed of 20 km/h. This passenger would spend 8 minutes walking, 3+8 minutes waiting (8 minutes at stations on the way), 12 minutes traveling for a total of 31 minutes travel time. 

The silly_walkway scenario would install moving walkways along all major roads. You would walk an average distance of 100m to a walkway entrance, spend a minute accelerating, another minute switching to a perpendicular walkway, and finally walk 100m to the destination. The distance would be 2 km at 8 km/h. The total would be 2.5 minutes walking to/from walkway, 3 minutes entering/transferring/exiting, and 15 minutes walking on walkways for a total of 20.5 minutes walking time. 

Silly_walkway is thus the winner in these scenarios (cost, maintenance and other practical considerations not included. Interestingly enough it does not involve more walking than the metro scenario. 

A denser metro scenario, with half the distance to the nearest station, would have shaved off 5 minutes from walking time (but added 2 minutes to travel time because of the extra stations). A more efficient entrance-to-platform and tranfer design would achieve the same saving without adding travel time, or the cost of doubling the number of lines. 

The bus/tram scenario involves the least walking, but this scenario with a bus/tram route covering most locations like above isn't very efficient either. Better use something more like what is used in Beijing today, more bus lines going more direct with more targeted stops. This would add to time waiting for bus, possibly with a transfer, but would reduce number of stops and travel time. This can be done with trams too, but less efficiently.


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## particlez

^funny your 3 scenarios ignores the most efficient one:

actually laying new grade separated lines. the demand for mass transit outstrips the present lines' capacity, and there are gaps in service. don't cheapen out with at-grade service and allow cross-traffic t impede it.

the higher capacity of trams (vs. buses) is compromised when cross traffic is in the way of the tram. the presence of cross traffic is a reason why ultra high density, ultra congested hong kong's island line uses double decker vehicles. even then, its practicality is up for debate.

if someone is going < 1km, it makes more sense to walk, or take a flexible, short haul bus. the beijing cbd will eventually have a subterranean walkway system.


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## Silly_Walks

:jax: said:


> Then again the tram system in the old town of Amsterdam is the quintessential of quaint, it gets to the Central Station eventually, but by the least efficient mode possible. It is the only tram system I know of where trams share a single track in both directions, a track they share with _pedestrians_ (a good portion of which are stoned tourists).


Well, the tracks aren't really shared with pedestrians... they're exclusive to the trams. But it's not illegal to cross the tram tracks 

I looked it up, and the average speed of trams in the city center is about 10-12 km/h :lol:


For Beijing, at least in/near it's center, I don't think they should go for trams while they still have money for subways. Trams are obstructed by and themselves obstruct other traffic too much.

I was kind of jokingly mentioning moving walkways, but in Beijing's wide, grid-pattern streets and long station distance, they could actually fill a gap efficiently.


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## hmmwv

Silly_Walks said:


> Can't Beijing have moving walkways to fill the gap between metro stations? Beijing's sidewalks are very wide, and moving walkways can bring people to places that are in a gap of subway coverage.


Just let the pedestrians walk! Gee, we sit on our asses long enough nowadays, at least let people walk from the subway to their offices. :lol:


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## Silly_Walks

hmmwv said:


> Just let the pedestrians walk! Gee, we sit on our asses long enough nowadays, at least let people walk from the subway to their offices. :lol:


I'm saying exactly that they should walk... but that walking can be sped up to make subways even more efficient by increasing their effective catchment area.


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## saiho

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Soviet trains are actually narrower than 2.70 m, I'd say 2.60. Like trains on our favorite Shanghai line 8.
> 
> In Moscow, and I guess Beijing I. The 1950-1960s had already been a huge city, so in Moscow they have always been stations that were 160m long to accommodate a 8-car train.


I heard that the secton between Fuxingmen and Sihui East on line 1 (old Fuba line) can support 8 car B size trains but the older section between Pingguoyuan and Nanlishilu (first section of the Beijing subway) can only handle 6 B cars. Then for some reason the new urban lines (4,5,8,9, and 10) just decided to use 6 car trains, probably for interoperability.



_Night City Dream_ said:


> Why do you say Shanghai trains on line 1 and 2 are "just" 176 m long as each car is 23.58 m long and probably tail cars are a bit longer?


I have seen in reports that the car is 22m long but i have also seen 22.5m and 23m as the length but not 23.5m. I think the discrepancy is when if they count the articulation or not. I know the platforms are 190 meters long but usually there is some leftover space on the platform. So the train has to be shorter than 190m. I used a simple calculation of 22x8 to figure out the approx length of 176m but cab cars are longer and I have not factored that into the calculation.



city_thing said:


> These trains are just fantastic. Does anyone have any internal photos? China is developing a great sense of aesthetics like Japan and South Korea. These trains are much better than HK's MTR trains too. Well done China!


Apparently it looks like this but its strange cause its not all pink and stuff but is pretty anyways.
Source











_Night City Dream_ said:


> I think Japanese and Korean metro trains have nothing to do with aesthetics.


but IMO the best looking... ironically.


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## _Night City Dream_

> I have seen in reports that the car is 22m long but i have also seen 22.5m and 23m as the length but not 23.5m. I think the discrepancy is when if they count the articulation or not. I know the platforms are 190 meters long but usually there is some leftover space on the platform. So the train has to be shorter than 190m. I used a simple calculation of 22x8 to figure out the approx length of 176m but cab cars are longer and I have not factored that into the calculation.


Sorry for off-topic but I've seen a figure of 23,586 m. Anyway, articulations have to be taken into account, too, as they are parts of cars and they can accomodate people.

Some stations in Shanghai are SHORTER than trains, like on line 2.


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## saiho

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Sorry for off-topic but I've seen a figure of 23,586 m. Anyway, articulations have to be taken into account, too, as they are parts of cars and they can accomodate people.
> 
> Some stations in Shanghai are SHORTER than trains, like on line 2.


I've done some research and found the Chinese Wiki on loading gauges. For a 6 car type A consist, the length of the train is 142m. Link For a 8 car Type A consist according to the Chinese Guangzhou metro line 13 page (of all places:nuts: but good for them in picking future proof loading gauges) is 185.6m. Link Now the loading gauges page states that Type A cars are 24-21m long (everyone's guesses fall under that range) assuming the 24m is for the cab cars that means 24*2+4*x=142 x=23.5 and 24*2+6*x=185.6 x=22.9. the the range is 23.5m to 23m. While on Chinese railcar Manufacturer websites state the length is 22m. Like a said before I think the difference is in whether the articulation is counted or not. when CNR/CSR are fabricating the train body-shells the machinists don't care about the length of the whole train they just need to cut metal to the length they where told to cut it and the articulations get plopped on afterward. I think they wanted to standardize the metalworking process to nice round numbers. Anyways 1-1.5m is fairly reasonable length for an articulation.


----------



## hmmwv

According to the file I posted in the Shanghai thread last year stations operate both A and B trains should have a platform length of 200m, I guess that must includes the maintenance sections hidden behind barriers at each end of the station.

http://lyndyw.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/c9168e0a2078aa45d9905f49b564518b.jpeg


----------



## saiho

At first I had a hard time believing it but after taking a random sample of subway station construction sites around china... It's true all station boxes for A and B size trains are 200m long. That means in the long run with some ingenuous station engineering you could possibly run 200m long trains everywhere in china.


----------



## big-dog

*Line 16 will use 8-car A Type train*

This is from today's news. Line 16 is a U/C line opening in 2016. It's said the 8-car A Type train will increase capacity by 70%+ than 6-car B Type train.

Line 16: 
40.2km, 24 stations (including 13 interchange stations)
Running crossing Haidian, Xicheng and Fengtai districts
Opening by the end of 2016


----------



## _Night City Dream_

I haven't seen that all the stations can accommodate 200 m trains. In many cases (that's true both for Beijing and Shanghai) they are built not to accommodate the existing number of cars, and beyond that there's just a little space for technical reasons.


----------



## Woonsocket54

*BEIJING | Line 14*














































http://beijing.china.org.cn/2013-04/24/content_28634285.htm


----------



## Highcliff

impressive subway....


----------



## saiho

_Night City Dream_ said:


> I haven't seen that all the stations can accommodate 200 m trains. In many cases (that's true both for Beijing and Shanghai) they are built not to accommodate the existing number of cars, and beyond that there's just a little space for technical reasons.


The completed platform is the length of the train but the actual excavated station box is 200m long. So that means if in theory you could move all the maintenance areas/ventaliation rooms/etc. somewhere else on the station then you could perhaps run up to 200m long trains.


----------



## z0rg

Still no escalators? I thought Beijing was constructing A grade subway already.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

saiho said:


> The completed platform is the length of the train but the actual excavated station box is 200m long. So that means if in theory you could move all the maintenance areas/ventaliation rooms/etc. somewhere else on the station then you could perhaps run up to 200m long trains.


I don't think this might be true. Here, in Moscow we have 155m trains this is the longest. Platforms are 160-165 meters but when they Re built, the excavated box is some 250 m or even more. And all this space is being used.

In this case, it is such a poity that on Shanghai line 6 they decided to use no more than 4 cars per train.


----------



## dumbfword

It's weird that didn't just plan the entire system for 10 car a-trains since it's only gonna grow busier in the future.


----------



## Silly_Walks

dumbfword said:


> It's weird that didn't just plan the entire system for 10 car a-trains since it's only gonna grow busier in the future.


Yes, some very short-sighted behavior... or does anyone know a logical explanation for this (besides saving a tiny bit of money in the short run)?


----------



## saiho

Silly_Walks said:


> (besides saving a tiny bit of money in the short run)?


I think that is the entire reason. Or Chinese authorities in the beginning didn't have a good grasp of how well the subway will be used. Nowadays new lines are being planned to be more future proof. Several metro lines in Chongqing and Wuhan plan to sport A size trains.


----------



## ddes

I think the Chinese authorities held on to the belief that more lines, more coverage, thereby spreading commuter traffic. The construction of Line 6, which is consistently mentioned by the media as a line to relieve Line 1, reinforces that.


----------



## :jax:

If the ticket price increased from 2 RMB to e.g. 10 RMB we would see a significant drop in ridership.


----------



## skyridgeline

:jax: said:


> If the ticket price increased from 2 RMB to e.g. 10 RMB we would see a significant drop in ridership.


:lol:

First, there will be riots.
Second, there will be purges.
Third, ridership?


----------



## skyridgeline

ddes said:


> I think the Chinese authorities held on to the belief that more lines, more coverage, thereby spreading commuter traffic. The construction of Line 6, which is consistently mentioned by the media as a line to relieve Line 1, reinforces that.


_According to expansion plans announced in January 2011, *the subway network in 2015 is expected to reach track density of 0.51 km per km2 (0.82 mi per sq. mi.) *inside the Fifth Ring Road where residents would on average have to walk 1 km (0.62 mi) to the nearest subway station.[52]_

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing_Subway#Future_lines


----------



## :jax:

Shanghai tickets go from 3 to 10 RMB. Poor Beijingers walk or ride a bike, rich Beijingers drive or are chauffeur-driven, of the rest the poorer take the bus (0.4+ RMB per ride), the richer metro (2 RMB per ride). The fare used to be 3+ RMB in Beijing, when the network was much smaller, and the RMB was worth a lot more, than today. The traffic is price sensitive, if the prices go up the number of riders will go down significantly. 

I don't think today's low fares are viable long term, but they should be lower than most other systems, it is much cheaper to transport many passengers than just a few. Long term it would make sense to have a rush hour surcharge of maybe 25%.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

z0rg said:


> Shanghai Line 2 has 60km afaik


I've heard a figure of 64 km.

But line 10 of Beijing metro is the longest circular line in the world, that's what I wanted to say.


----------



## Abhishek901

Seoul subway's line 2 is a 60 km circular line.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Is it underground?


----------



## Abhishek901

Not sure of that. You only asked about longest circular line :dunno:.

BTW, I checked again. The closed circular part is only 48 km for that line. Balance 12 km is spread over 2 branches. So that line cannot be called the longest circular line.


----------



## Silly_Walks

z0rg said:


> Shanghai Line 2 has 60km afaik


But that's not actually 1 line, right? You have to switch trains to do the whole line, so it's actually 2 lines.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Abhishek901 said:


> Not sure of that. You only asked about longest circular line :dunno:.
> 
> BTW, I checked again. The closed circular part is only 48 km for that line. Balance 12 km is spread over 2 branches. So that line cannot be called the longest circular line.


OK, than, line 10 of Beijing metro is currently the longest.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Silly_Walks said:


> But that's not actually 1 line, right? You have to switch trains to do the whole line, so it's actually 2 lines.


Indeed it is a single line as technically trains may run from East Xujing to Pudong international airport.


----------



## big-dog

z0rg said:


> Shanghai Line 2 has 60km afaik


The 2 stations near Pudong Airport are elevated ones, so the underground part is around 50 km. I was asking the longest underground line, there are quite a few ground/elevated lines longer than 57 km.



ode of bund said:


> Guangzhou Line 3 is more than 60km underground.


yes Guangzhou Line 3 has 64 km underground but it's a "Y" shape route not a one-start one-end or circle line.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Near Pudong airport there are much more than just 2 stations that are onground or elevated. I did ride once form the airport down to Hongqiao to find out how long it will take. So, there were at least 5-7 elevated stations.

Btw, the whole trip took 1h35 including the waiting time at Guanglan Lu.


----------



## big-dog

Actually only Yuandong Avenue (远东大道) and HaitianSan Road (海天三路) are elevated stations. Pudong Airport is a ground station (looks like underground). All the other 27 stations are located underground. But the distance that the 3 stations cover is more than 10km. So it feels like there are many stations above the ground.


----------



## Silly_Walks

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Indeed it is a single line as technically trains may run from East Xujing to Pudong international airport.


By that logic London - Rome is also one line :lol:

Shanghai line 2 is actually run as 2 lines, no matter what they call it.


----------



## Abhishek901

^^ Run as two lines in what sense?


----------



## Northridge

Abhishek901 said:


> ^^ Run as two lines in what sense?


As in you you need to physically change trains I'll guess?
But line 2 is obviously one line. Both in this question an in its self.


----------



## Silly_Walks

Northridge said:


> As in you you need to physically change trains I'll guess?
> But line 2 is obviously one line. Both in this question an in its self.


You need to physically change trains, the same way you would when changing lines. There's basically a Line 2 West and a Line 2 East, as is shown in the table on this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_2,_Shanghai_Metro#Stations


With a transfer at Guanglan Road Station:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanglan_Road_Station

Until they run the full length of line 2, it's just obviously two lines.


----------



## Northridge

Silly_Walks said:


> You need to physically change trains, the same way you would when changing lines. There's basically a Line 2 West and a Line 2 East, as is shown in the table on this page:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_2,_Shanghai_Metro#Stations
> 
> 
> With a transfer at Guanglan Road Station:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanglan_Road_Station
> 
> Until they run the full length of line 2, it's just obviously two lines.


That's not exactly accurate. They share an island platform, I've changed there myself.
But this discussion was brought up as an answer of the longest underground tunnel/circle line, so regards in that, I think it's fair to say it's one.


----------



## big-dog

May 7. Line 10 set new ridership high of *1.74 million*


----------



## Abhishek901

What's the reason of running this line in two parts?


----------



## z0rg

Silly_Walks said:


> You need to physically change trains, the same way you would when changing lines. There's basically a Line 2 West and a Line 2 East, as is shown in the table on this page:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_2,_Shanghai_Metro#Stations
> 
> 
> With a transfer at Guanglan Road Station:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanglan_Road_Station
> 
> Until they run the full length of line 2, it's just obviously two lines.


Wow, are you serious? A lot of cities with lines travelling well into the outskirts change trains because of different frequencies, shorter trainset length, etc. Yet they are not considered as different lines.


----------



## Northridge

Abhishek901 said:


> What's the reason of running this line in two parts?


the main reason AFAIK is that they have a very busy part through central and west Shanghai, while the eastern part is slow on passengers. So they do this so they don't need to run empty trains on the eastern part.


----------



## Abhishek901

In such cases, some of the trains service the busier part while some service whole line which means that busier parts will have better train frequency. Haven't seen trains of different lengths serving different parts of a line.

Anyways, is this technically one single line, that is, can direct trains run from Hongqiao to Pudong in future?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

The point is that here only passengers entering the system are counted. We do not count passengers who change lines. Whilst Beijing metro does for line 10. So does Yamanote line which is formally a separate line. Yamanote counts every passenger entering each of its stations.

If you really count each passenger entering each line separately, the numbers would be much bigger.


----------



## Northridge

Not sure how it works in Beijing, but in Tokyo you register your ticket when entering the station and the same when leaving, so while it's not technically registered at the specific line, the computers figures it out based on your in and out movement.


----------



## Woonsocket54

It is indeed true that daily ridership in Moscow is just 6.75 million - I could have sworn it was 9 million average daily some time ago. While the system has grown, ridership has decreased, but maybe this can also be attributed to the high car ownership rates in the Russian capital and the expanding expressway and BRT network.


----------



## silent_dragon

Are there any plans to convert line line 10 to 8-cars train?


----------



## chornedsnorkack

Are there any data as to what are the actual loads of Yamanote line passing between each station? And same about Beijing Metro line 10.


----------



## Svartmetall

chornedsnorkack said:


> Are there any data as to what are the actual loads of Yamanote line passing between each station? And same about Beijing Metro line 10.


There is, but I can't read Japanese. Quashlo posts JR East data in the Japanese Urban Transport thread on a regular basis and so can probably furnish you with peak loadings on the system. There are a few comparative differences between the Yamanote and the lines on the Beijing Subway, though. Firstly, the Yamanote runs at peak frequencies of 2.5 minutes headway. Next the Yamanote line runs 11 car trains with each car being 20m long and almost 3m wide. These measures alone will really reduce crowding on the line by having a massive extra capacity. Finally, when it comes to passenger numbers, the Yamanote line only has downtime of a few hours with service starting at 4:26 until 1:18. These extra hours give a much larger window of service compared to the Beijing Subway at present operating hours - it's amazing how many people you can move with a few extra hours.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Northridge said:


> Not sure how it works in Beijing, but in Tokyo you register your ticket when entering the station and the same when leaving, so while it's not technically registered at the specific line, the computers figures it out based on your in and out movement.


Anyway, Yamanote is technically a different line from all the other rail lines and so they count each passenger on it separately from all the others. If they didn't, we wouldn't get such insane figures.


----------



## Northridge

^^The reason you get those figures is b/c what I mentioned. The numbers might not be 100,00% accurate, but they are close enough to use them for statistics.
I would like to point out that there is cross platform interchange on the line.


----------



## saiho

Woonsocket54 said:


> It is indeed true that daily ridership in Moscow is just 6.75 million - I could have sworn it was 9 million average daily some time ago. While the system has grown, ridership has decreased, but maybe this can also be attributed to the high car ownership rates in the Russian capital and the expanding expressway and BRT network.


I heard of some people saying the Moscow Metro having 9 million/day daily ridership but after digging around it seems they where accidentally 
referring to the peak ridership. I would not say I'm an expert in the Moscow metro but I have been following its development and I don't see the system suddenly shedding 3-2 million daily riders in the past few years. Especially with it's rather aggressive expansion plan I'd expect ridership to grow. 



silent_dragon said:


> Are there any plans to convert line line 10 to 8-cars train?


Nope but in the next 4 years parallel lines will open on all 4 sides of Line 10. Line 14 will parallel the south and east sections, line 15 will parallel the north section and line 16 will cover the west portion. Lucky for us (them) line 14 and 16 will use A size trains which are high capacity.



Northridge said:


> ^^The reason you get those figures is b/c what I mentioned. The numbers might not be 100,00% accurate, but they are close enough to use them for statistics.
> I would like to point out that there is cross platform interchange on the line.


Yes between the Keihin-Tōhoku Line on the entire east side of the loop which really complicates things.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Northridge said:


> ^^The reason you get those figures is b/c what I mentioned. The numbers might not be 100,00% accurate, but they are close enough to use them for statistics.
> I would like to point out that there is cross platform interchange on the line.


I have watched loads of movies on YouTube about Yamanote line. For the most of cases it is hard to see so many passengers that would justify such figures... So, I really can't believe it is that overloaded with passengers.


----------



## forexticks

_Night City Dream_ said:


> I have watched loads of movies on YouTube about Yamanote line. For the most of cases it is hard to see so many passengers that would justify such figures... So, I really can't believe it is that overloaded with passengers.


I might not be correct on this but is there 4-6 tracks on the line?


----------



## saiho

forexticks said:


> I might not be correct on this but is there 4-6 tracks on the line?


The actual line the trains use is 2 but the corridor has lots of other parallel lines that use different tracks.


----------



## Svartmetall

_Night City Dream_ said:


> I have watched loads of movies on YouTube about Yamanote line. For the most of cases it is hard to see so many passengers that would justify such figures... So, I really can't believe it is that overloaded with passengers.


Youtube videos do not always give a correct impression necessarily - take a look at the one I have posted below. Remember, these trains are 220m long compared to the much shorter metro trains (generally) used elsewhere - for example it is almost 100m longer than the 9 car trains used by the Stockholm metro. Not only that, but ridership on the Yamanote line can be divided far more between different areas than other metro systems where the patronage is confined on narrow corridors - the Yamanote line connects a lot of different key business areas along its entire length and so ridership is high along nearly all of it, so yes, I do believe those numbers. I do generally trust the JR statistics for another reason - they are a private company that focuses on getting the highest quality ridership as well as maximising returns and so are paranoid about making sure they can get as many people moving along their lines in the interest of maximising their profits. This is very, very unlike other transport agencies worldwide (bar a few like the HK MTR). 







Anyway, sorry for the off-topic.


----------



## mkill

You won't get fully accurate numbers for ridership on the Yamanote because passengers are only counted when they enter or leave the system at the fare gate. 

If someone enters, say, in Asagaya on the Chuo Line and leaves in Musashi-Kosugi on the Yokosuka Line, then it's possible that he took the Yamanote between Shinjuku and Osaki, but JR won't be able to track it directly.

That said, the east side of the Yamanote runs parallel to the Keihin-Tohoku Line (and soon the Tokaido Line), the west side runs parallel to the Saikyo Line and Shonan Shinjuku Line. Only the northern part between Ikebukuro and Tabata is exclusively Yamanote.

If you count all passengers on the loop, regardless of whether they board a train labeled "Yamanote" or not, then yes, 3 million per day sounds about right. The Chuo Line that runs into Tokyo from the west has similar capacity and passenger numbers.

The 23 central wards of Tokyo have 8 million inhabitants, and there are at least 2 million outside commuters daily. If 15% of them take the Yamanote loop on some part of their daily commute, you'll have that figure. Note that a much higher percentage of Tokyoites commute by train than in most other cities. It's usually too far to walk, there are hardly any bike paths anywhere, and the train is usually twice as fast as a car stuck in traffic. There are buses but they usually ferry you to the next train station.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

I can accept this explanation but still this figures sounds insane in comparison to what we have here in Moscow. Sure, we don't count by lines, we just can count passengers entering the metro as a system but we can't track them within. Still, we've got 155m long trains that run from 5:30 to 1:03 in the morning, during rush hour headways on most of the lines are 1 min 30 - 1 min 35, cars are 2.70 m wide, and the commercial speed is smth about 43 km/h (top speed is over 80). What I see every morning and in the evening taking account that we have quite a developed metro system with 12 lines and over 185 stations, so the fact that Yamanote line carries just a half of what the whole Moscow metro does makes me sick. It is too hard to believe it.

I've been to Shanghai many times, I've been to Beijing once, they can't in my opinion be compared to Moscow Metro in terms of capacities as their trains run rarely...

In this context Yamanote looks incredible.

I can only suggest that between both rush hours passengers in Tokyo are still too numerous.


----------



## Northridge

Yamanote line also carries half of the total for NYC Subway. The numbers aren't wrong, but they are very high and almost unbelievable when compared to other busy lines.
Remember all the important connection points it serves; Shibuya, Shinjuku, Ikebukoro, Ueno, Akihabara, Tokyo, Shinbashi, Shinagawa. Many of these are in the top 10 for busiest stations in the world.


----------



## saiho

_Night City Dream_ said:


> I can accept this explanation but still this figures sounds insane in comparison to what we have here in Moscow. Sure, we don't count by lines, we just can count passengers entering the metro as a system but we can't track them within. Still, we've got 155m long trains that run from 5:30 to 1:03 in the morning, during rush hour headways on most of the lines are 1 min 30 - 1 min 35, cars are 2.70 m wide, and the commercial speed is smth about 43 km/h (top speed is over 80). What I see every morning and in the evening taking account that we have quite a developed metro system with 12 lines and over 185 stations, so the fact that Yamanote line carries just a half of what the whole Moscow metro does makes me sick. It is too hard to believe it.


It is what it is



_Night City Dream_ said:


> I've been to Shanghai many times, I've been to Beijing once, they can't in my opinion be compared to Moscow Metro in terms of capacities as their trains run rarely...


Yet Beijing has a higher daily ridership than Moscow as of 2013.


----------



## quashlo

Here are FY2011 daily entries (entries only, not exits) at the nine stations on the Yamanote Line where the Yamanote Line is the only JR East line serving the station (in other words, you can be absolutely 100% certain that everyone counted below is taking the Yamanote Line):



Code:


Ōtsuka         51,861
Sugamo         76,093
Komagome       46,005
Gotanda       127,996
Meguro        101,988
Harajuku       69,750
Shin-Ōkubo     42,433
Takadanobaba  199,741
Mejiro         37,355
=====================
TOTAL         753,222

So, already three-quarters of a million with basically the least significant stations on the line... Assuming these are commute trips where the morning and evening routes are the same, then its basically 1.5 million passengers daily for these stations alone.

But if you take the line regularly, you will easily notice the passenger flows are much larger at most of the remaining 20 stations. The daily ridership being quoted for the Yamanote Line isn't and will never be 100% accurate because there is no way to know exactly how passengers select their routes for OD pairs where at least one of the origin or destination is served by more than one JR East line, a problem that exists for pretty much any large system in the world. But it really shouldn't be too hard to believe a ridership in the several millions.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Yeah, I've heard about it and I can understand. In Beijing as well as in Shanghai I can see crowded trains even between the morning and the evening rush hour, probably this fact explains such huge figures. While in Moscow you can even have a seat, let's say at 12:00 at the third station from the terminus.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

Beijing Metro Line 1 is 57,1 km long. With 45 stops, it takes 104 minutes.

A bit long, still.

Shanghai Metro Line 22 is 56,4 km long, and with all stops takes just 60 minutes. For comparison, Yamanote Line full loop (34,8 km) takes 59...65 minutes, and Beijing Line 2 (23,1 km) something like 44 minutes.

Does Beijing need a high speed metro loop line, too?


----------



## Svartmetall

chornedsnorkack said:


> Beijing Metro Line 1 is 57,1 km long. With 45 stops, it takes 104 minutes.
> 
> A bit long, still.
> 
> Shanghai Metro Line 22 is 56,4 km long, and with all stops takes just 60 minutes. For comparison, Yamanote Line full loop (34,8 km) takes 59...65 minutes, and Beijing Line 2 (23,1 km) something like 44 minutes.
> 
> Does Beijing need a high speed metro loop line, too?


^^ Can't really compare the Yamanote line or the Beijing Subway lines to line 22 in Shanghai - the Jinshan line only has 9 stations on it and isn't really a metro line, more an express commuter line. To have a "rapid" rail link in Tokyo, one should look at the Chuo Rapid, or even better the longer distance lines like the Tsukuba Express (which is probably the most comparable at 58.4km long, 20 stations and taking 45 minutes).

Beijing probably does, in the future, require a faster rail system to supplement the metro if travel times are approaching those sort of lengths, though.


----------



## saiho

There are the R-series lines under planning 



















I'd say they should start building these after 2015 and completing most of them by 2020. By then they could run out of money and move on to cheaper S series lines. Except S6 thats pretty much a metro line.


----------



## Northridge

chornedsnorkack said:


> Beijing Metro Line 1 is 57,1 km long. With 45 stops, it takes 104 minutes.
> 
> A bit long, still.
> 
> Shanghai Metro Line 22 is 56,4 km long, and with all stops takes just 60 minutes. For comparison, Yamanote Line full loop (34,8 km) takes 59...65 minutes, and Beijing Line 2 (23,1 km) something like 44 minutes.
> 
> Does Beijing need a high speed metro loop line, too?


It's a loop line, so you will never need to travel more than half of it, if that.


----------



## big-dog

chornedsnorkack said:


> Beijing Metro Line 1 is 57,1 km long. With 45 stops, it takes 104 minutes.
> 
> A bit long, still.
> 
> Shanghai Metro Line 22 is 56,4 km long, and with all stops takes just 60 minutes. For comparison, Yamanote Line full loop (34,8 km) takes 59...65 minutes, and Beijing Line 2 (23,1 km) something like 44 minutes.
> 
> Does Beijing need a high speed metro loop line, too?


you can't compare Beijing Line 1 with Shanghai line 22. Shanghai Line 22 is a commuter rail running by CRH with less stops . Beijing has been increasing Line 1 speed and frequency before so I guess it doesn't have much room for further improvement.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Shanghai line 2 is almost 64 km long and it takes 1:38 form one end to the other (personal experience).


----------



## silent_dragon

*Maybe a new BJ subway line*

Just curious if there is a subway line plan like this.

In this way, there can be an option to:

1.) combine lines from the northwest part of line 4 to line 9
2.) line 4 can be made straight north to south line
3.) another horizontal line can be made by combining the remaining horizontal line 4 section

This should increase capacity as well as efficiency in lines 4 and 9 as they travel more or less in straight lines.

Just a thought


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS

Beijing is the second longest rapid transit network in the world after Seoul.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metro_systems


----------



## Northridge

^^Metro network.

If you look at the list it will only count the networks that belong to the Metro operator(s) of each city.
If you would count all local rail based transport within each city, the list would've looked differently.
The list is somewhat misleading in the sense that some cities have huge networks besides their metro, and some cities use metro as a suburban train.


----------



## saiho

VECTROTALENZIS said:


> Beijing is the second longest rapid transit network in the world after Seoul.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metro_systems


Whatever Beijing will surpass Seoul by 2016 based on current construction.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Never heard of Seoul being the largest... Is it pure metro or commuter trains included?


----------



## silent_dragon

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Never heard of Seoul being the largest... Is it pure metro or commuter trains included?


probably included the commuter trains.. if you look the Seoul lines it include many commuter lines to far flung areas.


----------



## Northridge

^^As I said, the list only includes the lines that are operated by the metro operator(s) of each city.

Since the metro in Seoul also is used as a commuter train, yes that is counted.


----------



## ode of bund

chornedsnorkack said:


> Beijing Metro Line 1 is 57,1 km long. With 45 stops, it takes 104 minutes.
> 
> A bit long, still.
> 
> Shanghai Metro Line 22 is 56,4 km long, and with all stops takes just 60 minutes. For comparison, Yamanote Line full loop (34,8 km) takes 59...65 minutes, and Beijing Line 2 (23,1 km) something like 44 minutes.
> 
> Does Beijing need a high speed metro loop line, too?


The subway that's 57km long and 45 stations is Beijing Line 10, not line 1.


----------



## big-dog

Northridge said:


> ^^As I said, the list only includes the lines that are operated by the metro operator(s) of each city.
> 
> Since the metro in Seoul also is used as a commuter train, yes that is counted.


Is it Tokyo who has the largest network if all operators being counted? Rapid transit network should count all commuter rails by all operators imo.


----------



## foxmulder

^^ I disagree. Commuter rails are not grade separated so they are not really at metro standard. They are short intercity rail.


----------



## Northridge

big-dog said:


> Is it Tokyo who has the largest network if all operators being counted? Rapid transit network should count all commuter rails by all operators imo.


It would surprise me if any city had more passengers than Tokyo. For length I'm not sure.


----------



## Svartmetall

big-dog said:


> Is it Tokyo who has the largest network if all operators being counted? Rapid transit network should count all commuter rails by all operators imo.


I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a network larger than Tokyo, yes. With 40 million journeys on the rail network every day, 882 stations on 121 lines with 30 different operators I can't think of any that come close - the next in line would be the Kansai Metro Area I believe. As for more passengers, there isn't a city with more, simple as that. No other network carries anything close to 40 million journeys in one day on average. 

The thing is, the commuter rail networks in Tokyo can sometimes be even more frequent than some of the metro lines - the Keio line, Tokyu lines (especially the Toyoko line), a lot of JR lines (including the Chuo rapid, Yamanote, Keihin-Tohoku etc), Seibu and some Tobu lines all have amazing frequencies and carry a LOT of passengers. Not only that, but these lines are not particularly "long" by Chinese standards in all cases - the Toyoko line is only 24.2km long with 21 stations and carrying well over a million per day with an absolute minimum frequency of 5 minutes on local only stations (but generally around 3 minutes for other stations according to the timetable). This really does make it hard to separate from a "metro" really especially given service frequency and distances between stations. 

But anyway, this esoteric debate can be continued in the Japanese transport thread as there are some very knowledgable people there who can answer your questions. 

The hyperbole about having the biggest metro system and best this or that does not make a good transport network. Being able to effectively move large numbers of people as painlessly and quickly as possible around a city is the true mark of a good system. I think the growth of the Beijing and Shanghai metro systems in particular is astounding, but the true measure is how well they can assist people in getting to where they want to be. My tiny city of Stockholm has a small metro system, but it is well patronised relative to population and our modal split is especially good for a western, developed city. These are, therefore, marks of success of our transport system rather than size.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Svartmetall said:


> Not only that, but these lines are not particularly "long" by Chinese standards in all cases - the Toyoko line is only 24.2km long with 21 stations and carrying well over a million per day with an absolute minimum frequency of 5 minutes on local only stations (but generally around 3 minutes for other stations according to the timetable). This really does make it hard to separate from a "metro" really especially given service frequency and distances between stations.
> 
> But anyway, this esoteric debate can be continued in the Japanese transport thread as there are some very knowledgable people there who can answer your questions.
> 
> The hyperbole about having the biggest metro system and best this or that does not make a good transport network. Being able to effectively move large numbers of people as painlessly and quickly as possible around a city is the true mark of a good system. I think the growth of the Beijing and Shanghai metro systems in particular is astounding, but the true measure is how well they can assist people in getting to where they want to be. My tiny city of Stockholm has a small metro system, but it is well patronised relative to population and our modal split is especially good for a western, developed city. These are, therefore, marks of success of our transport system rather than size.


Please, post it there, too! I'd like to discuss it.


----------



## saiho

Svartmetall said:


> The thing is, the commuter rail networks in Tokyo can sometimes be even more frequent than some of the metro lines - the Keio line, Tokyu lines (especially the Toyoko line), a lot of JR lines (including the Chuo rapid, Yamanote, Keihin-Tohoku etc), Seibu and some Tobu lines all have amazing frequencies and carry a LOT of passengers.


I do find it funny how the Toyoko line has 4 trains/hr that short turn in Shibuya which means that Toyoko line has a higher frequency than the Fukutoshin "subway" line that it through operates with. That being said Japan is more of an extreme exception than a rule.



Svartmetall said:


> Not only that, but these lines are not particularly "long" by Chinese standards in all cases - the Toyoko line is only 24.2km long with 21 stations and carrying well over a million per day with an absolute minimum frequency of 5 minutes on local only stations (but generally around 3 minutes for other stations according to the timetable). This really does make it hard to separate from a "metro" really especially given service frequency and distances between stations.
> 
> The hyperbole about having the biggest metro system and best this or that does not make a good transport network. Being able to effectively move large numbers of people as painlessly and quickly as possible around a city is the true mark of a good system. I think the growth of the Beijing and Shanghai metro systems in particular is astounding, but the true measure is how well they can assist people in getting to where they want to be. My tiny city of Stockholm has a small metro system, but it is well patronised relative to population and our modal split is especially good for a western, developed city. These are, therefore, marks of success of our transport system rather than size.


Actually the Stockholm tunnelbana is actually quite extensive (100km) in size for a metropolitan population of ~2 million.
But Beijing and Shanghai metros are carrying insane amounts of people for their age and the ridership growth is phenomenal. These systems are relatively young and have already taken on the world by storm. It took Tokyo at least 70 years to reach what it has today. Plus there are the potential mega systems forming in the Yangtze and Pearl River Deltas over the next 30 years that can give Tokyo and Keihanshin a run for their money. Heck even the local rail systems of Tianjin (Z series lines under planning) and Beijing (S series lines) might touch.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

saiho said:


> But Beijing and Shanghai metros are carrying insane amounts of people for their age and the ridership growth is phenomenal. These systems are relatively young and have already taken on the world by storm. It took Tokyo at least 70 years to reach what it has today. Plus there are the potential mega systems forming in the Yangtze and Pearl River Deltas over the next 30 years that can give Tokyo and Keihanshin a run for their money. Heck even the local rail systems of Tianjin (Z series lines under planning) and Beijing (S series lines) might touch.


Tianjin and Beijing HAVE a rail connection. Have had for over a century.

The thing is, it is neglected. Train number 6451 makes 7 stops between Beijing and Tianjin North. Huangcun, Weishanzhuang, Anding, Langfang North, Laofa, Douzhangzhuang, Yangcun.

But the problem is, it is the only train daily. No other train between Beijing and Tianjin North has more than 2 intermediate stops.

And 6451 takes 3:33 for mere 133 km. So under 40 km/h.

What is getting done to ensure fast, frequent and easily memorizable service to suburban stations like Weishanzhuang?


----------



## saiho

chornedsnorkack said:


> Tianjin and Beijing HAVE a rail connection. Have had for over a century.
> 
> But the problem is, it is the only train daily. No other train between Beijing and Tianjin North has more than 2 intermediate stops.


Yes but when I mean local service I mean something more like a regional rail or stopping train service. I know the hardware is there but there is no service.



chornedsnorkack said:


> What is getting done to ensure fast, frequent and easily memorizable service to suburban stations like Weishanzhuang?


Like I said S series lines. They mostly use existing rail corridors and stations. Line S4 is planned to run from Beijing South to Huangcun with stops in between but they could easily extend it to include other stations on the Jingshan Line as subway Line 4 reaches beyond Huangcun Station.


----------



## binhai

Two separate cities separated by dozens of km of farmland. The extremely convenient and fast high-speed rail is good enough for now.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

BarbaricManchurian said:


> Two separate cities separated by dozens of km of farmland.


Sanhe City alone is 480 000 people over just 643 square km. How well is Sanhe served by railways?


----------



## binhai

That's under 1,000 ppl/km2, hardly urban. It's a rural area with a few largish towns.


----------



## chornedsnorkack

BarbaricManchurian said:


> That's under 1,000 ppl/km2, hardly urban. It's a rural area with a few largish towns.


Sanhe city consists of 10 towns:

Juyang
Liqizhuang
Yangzhuang
Huangzhuang
Xinji
Duanjialing
Huangshizhuang
Gaolou
Qixinzhuang
Yanjiao
Which of these are "largish"?
Yanjiao alone is a big city of 250 000 people on mere 108 square km. And it is described as being 35 km from Tiananmen square.

Is there any railway between Yanjiao and Beijing?


----------



## saiho

^^ The Jingqin Line
However there is a plan to make a branch of the Beijing Subway Lines 6 and/or R1 to Yanjiao


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Brrr, it's so hard to understand the administrative division in China. "City consists of 10 towns" expression makes me sick.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

How large is the built up area of Beijing? North - South, East - West?


----------



## chornedsnorkack

_Night City Dream_ said:


> How large is the built up area of Beijing? North - South, East - West?


How do you define "built up area"?

6 districts of Beijing having each a population density of at least 6860 per square km (Shijingshan district) cover a contiguous area of 1378 square km.

Other districts have population densities of up to 1361 per square km (Tongzhou district). But Tongzhou district possesses a border with Chaoyang district. So how much of the 870 square km of Tongzhou district is a built up area contiguous with Beijing?


----------



## Abhishek901

_Night City Dream_ said:


> How large is the built up area of Beijing? North - South, East - West?


Maximum north-south length of Beijing's built up area is approx 63 km and same for east-west is approx 68 km.


----------



## big-dog

^^ that's a great way to measure the real size of a city


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Thank you very much for that. In fact, I thought it was way larger. What about Shanghai? I wonder because I can't realize how large their metro systems should be to cover the unique built-up area.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

chornedsnorkack said:


> How do you define "built up area"?
> 
> 6 districts of Beijing having each a population density of at least 6860 per square km (Shijingshan district) cover a contiguous area of 1378 square km.
> 
> Other districts have population densities of up to 1361 per square km (Tongzhou district). But Tongzhou district possesses a border with Chaoyang district. So how much of the 870 square km of Tongzhou district is a built up area contiguous with Beijing?


Sorry, I am not got at administrative division of Beijing and I do t know. I've just wanted to know how large a continuos built-up area of Beijing is.


----------



## Abhishek901

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Thank you very much for that. In fact, I thought it was way larger. What about Shanghai? I wonder because I can't realize how large their metro systems should be to cover the unique built-up area.


Shanghai isn't much different either in size. Only difference is that Shanghai has more large towns and cities almost touching it while Beijing seems to be surrounded by smaller towns and countryside.


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS

Can you other cities in China? I would like to see Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Chengdu, Chongqing, Wuhan, Tianjin.


----------



## Svartmetall

^^ It would be better to move this kind of analysis to the citytalk and urban section, though as I agree it is fascinating, but isn't directly related to transport provision.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Svartmetall said:


> ^^ It would be better to move this kind of analysis to the citytalk and urban section, though as I agree it is fascinating, but isn't directly related to transport provision.


If so, then please, leave us a link here.


----------



## Svartmetall

^^ A new topic on "urban area sizes" in The Citytalk and Urban Issues section would be fantastic. I'm sure there would be a lot of people interested in the topic.


----------



## Abhishek901

VECTROTALENZIS said:


> Can you other cities in China? I would like to see Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Chengdu, Chongqing, Wuhan, Tianjin.


I can tell you how it can be done. You would need to install Google Earth first. After installing, click on "Primary database" and open the dropdown in the panel at bottom left corner of the screen. Then open "Gallery",then "NASA" and then finally click on "Earth City lights". You Google earth will turn into a night sky view. Now you can visit the cities and with the help of "Ruler" on the toolbar at the top, you can measure distances on the map.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Sorry for the off-topic but it doesn't work on my Mac. I click on Earth city lights and it sends me deep into the Pacific.


----------



## Abhishek901

You may try to re-install it. If it doesn't work then I will post pictures of these cities myself.


----------



## Svartmetall

^^ But please not in this thread. I've already given a link where this topic can be discussed.


----------



## doc7austin

Finally I had the chance to take the newly-built Subway Line 6 in Beijing. I am really amazed about this Chinese achievement. Line 6 finally gives relief to the Beijing people who want to travel between the East and West of the city. Line 1 was exploding with too many passengers.

You can see a video summary on Youtube:






Here you see a view over Beijing looking to the west. The air quality is not too bad. Line 6 runs mostly beneath Chaoyangmen Street in Beijing, which can be on the right.












We enter the Beijing Subway system at Hujialou Station, which is located at the 3rd Ring Road near the CCTV Tower. This is an interchange station between Line 10 and Line 6.





















Here you can see a detailed map of Hujialou Station. We have entered at Exit D.





















Here you can see the pedestrian mezzanine levels. 
Going downstairs you enter the platform of Line 10 (inner ring loop, counter-clockwise direction) and going forward you enter the platform of Line 10 (for west-east direction trains).












The second big ring metro around Beijing has been closed. We are now at the platform of Line 10.





















Leaving the platform and going to Line 6, which runs perpendicular above Line 10.












Mezzanine level Line 6:












Platform Line 6:












Inside Beijing Subway Line 6 train - its not full at all. Compare that with the busy Line 1, which is running 1 mile south of Line 6.






























One can see the driver window - I have only seen this feature on Shanghai Metro Line 6 and 8.





















We are getting out at Nanluoguxiang Station. The architecture is really amazing. It blends itself in perfectly with the historic building style of the Nanluoguxiang hutong.
















































Station Map:












Beijing Subway TV:












Ticket Machine:












Outside exit:












Nanluoguxiang Station is still a construction site, because in the near future it will become a transfer station with North-South Line 8.












Busy Dianmen Road running above Line 6.





















Compare Line 6 with Line 2, which was built in the 80s. Here at Jishuitan Station. Its day and night.






























Continueing on Line 6 in westward direction towards Baishiqiao South. Baishiqiao Southis a transfer station, passengers can change there to Subway Line 9.

Mezzanine level Baishiqiao Station:












Station Map:












Platform Line 9:












Inside the not so busy Line 9:





















The train passes through Military Museum station. This important transfer station to Line 1 has not opened yet. Anyway, I am so happy that the Northern part of Line 9 between Beijing West Railway Station and National Library has opened at the end of 2012. This line was needed badly, as well. Finally one can reach Beijing West Railway Station by Subway. Walking between Military Museum and the Railway Station was always a pain.

Arriving at Beijing West Railway Station:






























Seeing the Subway hall underneath Beijing West Railway Station:


----------



## Northern Lotus

Do Beijingers generally line up to board the trains?


----------



## skyridgeline

Northern Lotus said:


> Do Beijingers generally line up to board the trains?


Yes- very long and wide. $0.30 ( 30 cents) per unlimited transfer trip ( except Airport Express ).


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Doc7austin, thanks a lot for the pictures. I really like the fact that China has started to decorate their metro stations. I remember Hangzhou and Wuxi metros, too.


----------



## big-dog

I was taking subway from Olympic Park to Beijing South Station on Friday, line 8 -> line 2 -> line 4. It's quite crowded on Line 2 and Line 4, even not in rush hour. The subway stations are smaller than the Shanghai ones (even the newly build ones). The signage is no good either. Overall I think Shanghai has the edge ever Beijing as far as metro is concerned, particularly in station usability and convenience.


----------



## big-dog

pictures I took on Friday

Line 8 Olympics Park Station









Gulou Station, interchange line 2



exit street map, a better map than Shanghai subway


----------



## big-dog

Line 2 is as old as before, Line 2 Deshengmen Station







Line 2 Xizhimen Station, interchanging Line 4





Transfer to Line 4, it's weird that Line 4 is located just beneath the platform of Line 2







Get down and see Line 4 platform



exit to Line 4 Beijing South Station


----------



## boy8293

*Beijing Subway Map 2013 *

*Click Here for Full Size*

http://www.seacitymaps.com/china/beijing_subway_map_1.htm


----------



## big-dog

*July 12 Beijing daily ridership reaches record high of 11 million*

The total 17 line's ridership on July 12 is *11.0469 million*. Multiple lines created new highs (in millions):

Line 2: 1.5208
Line 6: 0.6421
Line 4 + Daxing: 1.5512
Line 9: 0.4292
Line 10: 2.0152
Changping: 0.1584
Yizhuang: 0.1952

by 高铁见闻


----------



## Highcliff

congratulations....beijing...



_Night City Dream_ said:


> I've heard a figure of 64 km.
> 
> But line 10 of Beijing metro is the longest circular line in the world, that's what I wanted to say.


this is one of the most impressive things in beijing...:master::master::master:


----------



## Highcliff

quashlo said:


> If no one minds, I will share my transit pics from the Beijing area. Nothing special, but enjoy.
> 
> Start off in Dongcheng District, near Beixinqiao Station:


troleybuses and articulated buses in beijing....:drool::drool::drool:


----------



## saiho

big-dog said:


> *July 12 Beijing daily ridership reaches record high of 11 million*
> 
> The total 17 line's ridership on July 12 is *11.0469 million*. Multiple lines created new highs (in millions):
> 
> Line 2: 1.5208
> Line 6: 0.6421
> Line 4 + Daxing: 1.5512
> Line 9: 0.4292
> Line 10: 2.0152
> Changping: 0.1584
> Yizhuang: 0.1952
> 
> by 高铁见闻


Wow line 10 broke 2 million people/day... :nuts:


----------



## big-dog

Highcliff said:


> troleybuses and articulated buses in beijing....:drool::drool::drool:


From this year Shanghai will start to use the 3-door buses to replace the old 2-door ones.










--metrofans.sh.cn


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Shanghai or Beijing?


----------



## big-dog

Shanghai. Wrong thread I just saw the above bus pictures


----------



## Abhishek901

saiho said:


> Wow line 10 broke 2 million people/day... :nuts:


It must be the busiest subway line in the world?


----------



## Scion

Xierqi station lol











Video: http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTg0Nzc3MjQ4.html


----------



## Silly_Walks

^^


WOW!

What was going on? metro on one line broken/delayed?


----------



## saiho

Line 4
SFM04









Line 8
SFM12









Line 9
DKZ33









Line 10
DKZ15









Line 13
DKZ5









DKZ6


----------



## ddes

I do apologize for not being able to put this eloquently, but what ARE Beijing trains? I know what Hitachi, Rotem, Alstom, Bombardier, Kawasaki sound like, but when I rode the Beijing subway, there were "sounds" that I identified with a mixture of these manufacturers. Could anybody shed some light? Thanks.


----------



## saiho

ddes said:


> I do apologize for not being able to put this eloquently, but what ARE Beijing trains? I know what Hitachi, Rotem, Alstom, Bombardier, Kawasaki sound like, but when I rode the Beijing subway, there were "sounds" that I identified with a mixture of these manufacturers. Could anybody shed some light? Thanks.


They are built by Chinese companies the SMF series are by China South Locomotive & Rolling Stock Corporation Limited and DZK series are by China CNR Corporation Limited. The world's largest and third largest rolling stock manufactures by turnover (write that down). They may have sourced parts from other companies but from what I hear the latest generation of EMUs have achieved high localization rates. Which means that the Chinese are digesting and applying the technology well.


----------



## saiho

Line 16 station design pictures:

Lize CBD station lines 16 and 14.









Suzhou Street Station lines 16 and 10









Erligou Station lines 6 and 16


----------



## saiho

Muxidi Station Line 1 and 16









National Library Station Lines 4, 9 and 16









Xiyuan Station









I only picked the interesting stations which had interchanges with existing lines. There are plenty more images of other stations on line 16 here


----------



## Silly_Walks

High Speed Trains in the subway?


----------



## hmmwv

Silly_Walks said:


> High Speed Trains in the subway?


Do not take the illustration literally.


----------



## kunming tiger

Hong Kong has an extensive system of tunnels and elevated walkways connecting public places , shopping centers and MTRs etc.

Does Beijing have a similar system or is there one on the drawing boards?


----------



## _Night City Dream_

It has got but I guess not to such an extent. Hong Kong does have it due to very limited space while Beijing is 10-20 much larger.

But I've come across such things at Dongzhimen, for example.


----------



## kunming tiger

An underground/evelated walkway system while more expensive would offer advantages during winter or summer.

One would think the pros would be greater than the cons.

Are any other Mainland cities planning such a system?


----------



## hmmwv

kunming tiger said:


> An underground/evelated walkway system while more expensive would offer advantages during winter or summer.
> 
> One would think the pros would be greater than the cons.
> 
> Are any other Mainland cities planning such a system?


Nanjing's Xinjiekou shopping district is almost entirely hollow down below, it has a couple of shopping streets under ground, and the basement is connected to two metro stations and something like ten department stores.


----------



## hkskyline

*Custom shuttle provides new route in Beijing gridlock*

BEIJING, Oct. 5 (Xinhua) -- A Beijing Public transport operator is experimenting a new shuttle service to help commuters navigate through the city's notorious gridlock.

Beijing Public Transport Holdings (BPT) has launched a "customized shuttle service," promising speedy travel on dedicated lanes.

Routes are tailored to commuters' travel needs, which BPT collects from its official website. Since the operator's first call for customized routes in late August, more than 4,000 people have registered and 2,000 have signed up to ride shuttle buses.

A month after its launch, the service now departs from 12 residential areas around the city's suburbs to bustling downtown business districts during peak hours. BPT will add 12 more routes after the end of the seven-day National Holiday that started on Oct. 1.

Priced at 8 yuan (1.63 U.S. dollars), passengers are guaranteed a seat on a bus that is wifi-enabled and runs straight to the destination on the dedicated lanes. Each bus carries 22 passengers.

"This feels much better than the crowded subway I used to take during peak hours," said a passenger surnamed Chen who boarded the shuttle near his apartment in an eastern suburb to Beijing's Central Business District.

Other Chinese cities have launched or are considering customized shuttle bus services as sprawling urban development has lengthened trips between the home and office.

Besides Beijing, the coastal city of Qingdao in east China's Shandong Province started running two customized routes on Aug. 15. Similar services are to open in Xi'an, capital of northwest Shaanxi Province and Shanghai, the nation's financial hub.

Beijing's customized shuttle service came at a time when the rising number of car ownership is worsening the capital's traffic gridlock and contributing to serious air pollution.

Automobile ownership hit 5.36 million at the end of July and statistics from the municipal environmental authority shows that vehicle exhaust fumes accounts for 22.2 percent of airborne particles measuring less than 2.5 microns in diameter, or PM 2.5, that many blame for the city's smog.

The Beijing government has already introduced curbs to reduce car emissions and ease traffic flow, such as taking vehicles off the roads during weekdays based on license plate numbers and imposing a monthly quota on car license plates through a lottery scheme.

In a plan to improve air quality, Beijing announced a target to cap automobile ownership at six million by 2017. Authorities are likely to tighten the existing license quota to achieve this goal.

The shuttle service thus becomes part of a broader campaign by the municipal government to encourage citizens to park their cars and use public transportation more often. Each year BPT revises and adds new bus routes to accommodate the needs of people living in the suburbs.

Meanwhile, Beijing's subway network is also being extended and has become the choice for many to commute between home and the workplace.

While these means of public transportation eases local travel, passengers complain about crowded buses and subway coaches, as well as punctuality issues. A signal glitch that held up service on one of Beijing's 14 subway lines in mid-September forced many to swarm bus stops, stretching the capital's public transportation.

However, some are skeptical about the new shuttle service's potential to deliver, as few of those who have signed up drive their own car to work.

"If the shuttle service can attract more of those who drive their own car to work, I think it will make a big difference to Beijing's traffic problem," Chen, the passenger, said.


----------



## kunming tiger

hmmwv said:


> Nanjing's Xinjiekou shopping district is almost entirely hollow down below, it has a couple of shopping streets under ground, and the basement is connected to two metro stations and something like ten department stores.


 That's interesting to know.


----------



## hkskyline

*Beijing to construct 6 new subway lines*

BEIJING, Oct. 29 (Xinhua) -- Construction of six new subway lines in Beijing is expected to start by the end of this year to help ease traffic in the Chinese capital.

The six lines, with a total length of more than 90 km, are expected to be operational by the end of 2016, bringing the city's total track length to more than 600 km, according to the Beijing City Subway Construction Management Company on Tuesday.

They include downtown lines and lines linking suburban areas with the downtown.

Currently there are 17 subway lines running in Beijing with a total length of 456 km. The city's subway system carries approximately 10 million passengers daily on workdays.


----------



## lkstrknb

I was wondering about the maglev line S1 that we have been hearing about for years. Does anyone know if this is progressing or still stalled?

This is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing_Maglev_Train

Beijing Maglev Train

Beijing Maglev Trains or Beijing Transrapid (Chinese:北京低速磁悬浮) is a proposed magnetic levitation train, or maglev line rapid transit system that has to be built and operated by the Beijing Suburban Railway with the introduction of S1 line of Beijing Subway starting from the Dinghuiqiao north number five road on the West Fourth Ring Road, and go west towards Mentougou.[1]
Trains will use the low and middle speed magnetic levitation technology which can give a top speed of 105 kilometers per hour. [2][3]
A report in February 2013 said all preparatory work was complete and construction would commence "once the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC) grants its approval."[4]


----------



## saiho

PSGs being installed at Batong and Line 13

See Here


----------



## binhai

How bout lines 1 and 2?


----------



## saiho

BarbaricManchurian said:


> How bout lines 1 and 2?


Installation starting this year


----------



## micro

Which next openings can we espect?


----------



## saiho

Line 8 North extension to Changping Line and Line 8 South extension to Art Museum by the end of the year
Next year there will be huge openings: 
Line 14 and 15 extensions will provide relief for north and east sides of line 10 while Line 7 will further relieve Line 1.
Line 6 will be extended further east.


----------



## :jax:

big-dog said:


> Line 10 at Caoqiao and Mudanyuan. The map will be available when it's got final approval.


The plans I've seen at ditiezu ends at Beijing South (High-Speed) Railway Station, which frankly doesn't make that much sense to me. You would definitely want a high(er)-speed line connecting Beijing South with the airport. The new Daxing/Langfang airport is much further out from Beijing centre than the existing Capital airport. 

Ideally there should be a "shunt" from Shijiazhuang (Beijing-Hong Kong) to Tianjin (Beijing-Shanghai) with the new airport in the middle. 

A slower metro line would be better to go to the centre of town or business centre of town (Guomao), which would be a straighter line. That is somewhere between Line 8 and Yizhuang line, or even Line 8 itself (which would be a slow, crowded, alternative). The terminal station should be on the R1 or connect to the existing Airline line, though that would be a rather slow airport-airport connection. S6 may end up as an airport-airport line as well. 

A metro line from the new airport to relatively nearby Langfang would also make sense.


----------



## saiho

Line 7 Rolling Stock










6 Car B size expandable to 8 cars. Everything looks really good, Chinese subway train design has come really far. However I wish that they opted to paint the train to the line's color which is orange.

more pictures:

Cab car
http://www.yupoo.com/photos/sandsoso/albums/5732965/89879464/

Front
http://www.yupoo.com/photos/sandsoso/albums/5732965/89879465/

Inside
http://www.yupoo.com/photos/sandsoso/albums/5732965/89879462/

Hong Kong MTR style next stop info.
http://www.yupoo.com/photos/sandsoso/albums/5732965/89879463/


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS

Looks really nice!


----------



## xizhimen




----------



## big-dog

xizhimen said:


>


Shanghai is ahead with opening of Line 12 and Line 16 today, *567 km*.


----------



## xizhimen

Beijing subway


----------



## xizhimen

big-dog said:


> Shanghai is ahead with opening of Line 12 and Line 16 today, *567 km*.


Beijing and Shanghai will fight for the longest title in the coming years,and leave behind other cities further and further.


----------



## xizhimen

Beijing subway


----------



## _Night City Dream_

What about Seoul? It is supposed to hold the name of the longest metro system in the world so far?


----------



## djidma11

_Night City Dream_ said:


> What about Seoul? It is supposed to hold the name of the longest metro system in the world so far?


Some sources say 543km for Seoul others 327km...I think it's 327km for Seoul...Even if it's 543km Beijing,Shanghaï and even Guangzhou will surpass Seoul by far


----------



## _Night City Dream_

I've heard the figures between 700 and 900 kms for Seoul.

Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seoul_Metropolitan_Subway it says 981.5 kms.


----------



## djidma11

_Night City Dream_ said:


> I've heard the figures between 700 and 900 kms for Seoul.
> 
> Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seoul_Metropolitan_Subway it says 981.5 kms.


981.5kms including commuter lines


----------



## saiho

djidma11 said:


> Some sources say 543km for Seoul others 327km...I think it's 327km for Seoul...Even if it's 543km Beijing,Shanghaï and even Guangzhou will surpass Seoul by far


Ya it depends on which lines you count. The higher number counts the Bundang, AREX, Ilsan, Ansan and Sin Bundang lines. Which qualify as metro lines. The kicker is when the AREX has KTX and other mainline trains running thorough it in February 2014. Then Seoul Metro's higher count will shed 58km.


----------



## ode of bund

I am going to add a bit of trolley-bus news. 

On the morning of Saturday December 28th, route 127 has officially replaced 104-kuai (104-limited stop service) diesel bus service and become the 16th trolley-bus route in China's capital. 

Two shots of the bus stop sign at Liu-fang City Rail Station, first bus 5:00am, last bus 0:00am, route 127 inherited the schedule of 104-kuai. In terms of daily hours of operation, route 127 became the longest running trolley route in Beijing. Trolley overhead in Beijing is deenergized between 0:00am and 3:00am daily, so all other trolley routes are scheduled to terminate before 0:00am. According to one poster who works for Beijing trolley-bus company, the need to deenergize overhead has become a thing of past after the inauguration of route 127, and deergization will only be necessary when major maintenance is done. However so far this has not brought a prolongment of service hours on other trolley routes.



















From December 19th to December 27th, there was a transition period when both diesel buses and trolley-buses were running as route 104-kuai, and trolleys were displaying 104-kuai on destination signs. In this shot, on the night of December 27th, coach 95639 has already flipped the destination sign to 127.



















Trolleys waiting for their next deployment:










Coach 95630 becomes the first bus on December 28th.


----------



## Silly_Walks

I had no idea Beijing was expanding it's trolley bus network. Great news!


----------



## saiho

Good news, I hate how Chinese cities are closing down their trolley networks even in the new millennium. Shenyang's massive system was completely removed in the 90's. I would like to see these systems returned to their former glory or even better yet as trams. Does anyone have a map of the new route.


----------



## tunnel owl

saiho said:


> Ya it depends on which lines you count. The higher number counts the Bundang, AREX, Ilsan, Ansan and Sin Bundang lines. Which qualify as metro lines. The kicker is when the AREX has KTX and other mainline trains running thorough it in February 2014. Then Seoul Metro's higher count will shed 58km.


What about Tokyo if you take this lines into account? Does Tokyos subway length integrate thoses stretches where subway is running on surface railway sections?

Also it´s hard to count only RATP service in Paris. At least RER A and B network has metro-standard I think.

It would end up in a scientific research I know, but interesting anyway. Which city does have the most dense network in terms of intervals and km concerning it´s size (inhabitants and square-km). 


Kind regards


----------



## saiho

tunnel owl said:


> What about Tokyo if you take this lines into account? Does Tokyos subway length integrate thoses stretches where subway is running on surface railway sections?


No Tokyo doesn't, as the surface lines of Tokyo have frequent service but are non grade separated. Except for some, Toyo rapid and Saitama Rapid are grade separated.


----------



## Highcliff

what trolleybus system....:drool::drool::master::master::cheers::cheers2::rock::rock:


----------



## :jax:

Or any good map of the Beijing bus system in general? The very extensive bus system is every bit as critical to Beijing transport as the metro system, and then some, but finding which buses go where is not that easy.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Well, our commuter lines in Moscow are almost all grade-separated. Within city administrative limits there are over 220 km of tracks, so in addition to metro tracks that are 314 km long it makes 543 km..

If we approve this method, Tokyo seems to overcome any city by far making several thousands of km.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Trolleybuses are. To so good in terms of costs and value for money. Beijing had better develop a large tram system that is able to carry much more passengers. The only advantage of a trolley is over a bus is that it is environmentally friendly. However, if we take into account the way the energy for it is produced, we'll see that it is not the case as China's till has mostly coal fired stations.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

xizhimen said:


> Beijing is bigger than Shanghai in area,and soon will even be bigger in population,Beijing's subway expansion is fastest currently in China,very soon Beijing will fulfill its goal to be No.1.


Beijing is bigger than Shanghai only administratively but the built-up area of Shanghai is bigger, do not forget Puxi (when you leave Hongqiao and going to the Bund, you see almost 16 km of a very dense built-up area). Shanghai is much more developed, it is more modern yet it has some strong historic places, it is cleaner and more harmonious, I'd say.

If we get back to metro system, Beijing subway serves the downtown very poorly while extending lines into outskirts and suburbs. Meanwhile Downtown Shanghai being far much denser ant more developed than Beijing, is very well served by many lines of its metro running through.

When I'm in Shanghai I have dozens of variants how to get to any place. In Beijing very often there is only one variant. That is why transfer stations are so overcrowded in Beijing.

Traffic jams in Shanghai do not almost exist even in rush hour if we compare it to all the other large cities of the world, considering that Shanghai has got loads of cars. In Bejing traffic is awful.

Shanghai features unmatched road surface quality often much better than you find anywhere in Germany while in Beijing there are pits, cuts, damaged asphalt very often.

And then, while many believe it does but Beijing doesn't have much history. If you want to see really something ancient, you have to go to Hangzhou, Nanjing, or Xi'an. But Beijing actually doesn't offer more history than Shanghai. Lots of old communities were torn down and replaced by replicas of hutongs.


----------



## bighomey3000

Did the Line 8 extensions open on the 28th? I am assuming they did but not seeing any news here...


----------



## big-dog

Yes it opened on 28th. Pics taken yesterday from ditiezu

Nan Luoguoxiang Station







Shichahai Station











Pingxifu Station





Yuzhi Rd Station





Zhuxinzhuang Station


----------



## Woonsocket54

Is there a reason National Art Museum station has not opened?

Also, at Zhuxinzhuang, is it a cross-platform transfer both from a terminating Line 8 train onto Nanshao-bound Changping Line train AND from Xierqi-bound Changping Line train onto Line 8? Or is the cross-platform transfer for only one of these?


----------



## saiho

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Trolleybuses are. To so good in terms of costs and value for money. Beijing had better develop a large tram system that is able to carry much more passengers. The only advantage of a trolley is over a bus is that it is environmentally friendly. However, if we take into account the way the energy for it is produced, we'll see that it is not the case as China's till has mostly coal fired stations.


Well you get efficiencies in energy use with electric motors. So a coal power plant feeding a trolley network will still use less Joules of energy per passenger kilometer than a diesel bus. In addition you get economies of scale you can retrofit the coal plants with scrubbers, participators and desulfurizators. How can cram all that tech in a bus? Let alone 200 of them.


----------



## big-dog

Woonsocket54 said:


> Is there a reason National Art Museum station has not opened?


Art Museum station is one of the most difficult stations to build. It's located in the heart of Beijing; There are complicated pipelines running underground; Line 6 is running thru nearby.

So it could open by the end of 2015, or even by 2017.





> Also, at Zhuxinzhuang, is it a cross-platform transfer both from a terminating Line 8 train onto Nanshao-bound Changping Line train AND from Xierqi-bound Changping Line train onto Line 8? Or is the cross-platform transfer for only one of these?


at Zhuxinzhuang 2 tracks of Line 8 are located in the middle; 2 tracks of Changping line are located separately on two sides of the station. so,

Xierqi-bound -> Line 8, cross platform
Nanshao-bound -> Line 8, take escalator to other side of platform
Line 8 -> Nanshao-bound, cross platform
Line 8 -> Xierqi-bound, take escalator to other side of platform


----------



## saiho

Beijing subway transported over 3.2 billion passengers in 2013, an increase of nearly 30%

Beijing subway annual ridership hits 3.209 billion in 2013. Possibility making it the busiest metro system in the world.


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS

*Beijing metro 1983*


----------



## z0rg

saiho said:


> Beijing subway transported over 3.2 billion passengers in 2013, an increase of nearly 30%
> 
> Beijing subway annual ridership hits 3.209 billion in 2013. Possibility making it the busiest metro system in the world.


Still below Seoul. Maybe in 2014 it'll become the world's busiest. Beware of Shanghai though!


----------



## saiho

*Fishy*



z0rg said:


> Still below Seoul. Maybe in 2014 it'll become the world's busiest. Beware of Shanghai though!


Seoul looks fishy. Last week it was not like that. It just got changed today with a new 2012 stat. The source looks like its adding the ridership of Lines 1-9 (Metro) and all (Korail) commuter lines. Korail has been added today.

Korail = 1.02 billion
Seoul Metro = 2.56 billion


----------



## saiho

Line 6 and 7 trains


----------



## maldini

saiho said:


> Seoul looks fishy. Last week it was not like that. It just got changed today with a new 2012 stat. The source looks like its adding the ridership of Lines 1-9 (Metro) and all (Korail) commuter lines. Korail has been added today.
> 
> Korail = 1.02 billion
> Seoul Metro = 2.56 billion


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_systems_by_annual_passenger_rides

Beijing Subway 3209 million 2013 
Seoul Metropolitan Subway 2560 million 2012
Shanghai Metro 2500 million 2013 
Moscow Metro 2464 million 2012 
Tokyo Metro 2270 million FY2011 
Guangzhou Metro (including FMetro) 1851 million 2012 
New York City Subway 1655 million 2012 
Mexico City Metro 1609 million 2012 
Hong Kong Mass Transit Railway 1553 million 2012 
Paris Métro 1541 million 2012


----------



## ArtNouveau

These figures are skewed as they do not factor in commuter rail, eg RER


----------



## Northridge

^^Yes. All those numbers are interesting on a per company basis, not city basis.


----------



## Svartmetall

The whole comparison thing is fishy. Why separate TOEI and Tokyo Metro? It does not tell anything about rail transport within a city and/or effectiveness of public transport within that urban area given in Tokyo only 20% or so of all rail travel is by metro, the other 80% is by the private and JR lines. Coupled with that, it is heavily skewed towards cities where the metro is the only form of rapid transport, whilst neglecting those cities that have two highly effective forms of rail transport (Berlin U + S bahn for example). Also, why separate the Seoul metro system? It carries 3.58 billion per year on the system as a whole, and 469 stations out of 615 are true metro stations, not commuter rail/korail. 

So for now, lets just say that who cares which metro system has the largest number of passengers? Beijing is expanding rapidly, the metro looks amazing and the line lengths are impressive. It's also good that they're starting to expand an S-bahn style service for the city too so that far-flung commuters have a fast way to the city.


----------



## Abhishek901

Svartmetall said:


> It does not tell anything about rail transport within a city and/or effectiveness of public transport within that urban area


Yes, it does not tell about overall rail transport but there is nothing wrong in that. This list is meant only for "metro systems" and will therefore present numbers only for metro systems. One can create a list for "urban rail" system for a better picture but suggesting inclusion of other rails systems in this list is not a good idea.


----------



## Svartmetall

Abhishek901 said:


> Yes, it does not tell about overall rail transport but there is nothing wrong in that. This list is meant only for "metro systems" and will therefore present numbers only for metro systems. One can create a list for "urban rail" system for a better picture but suggesting inclusion of other rails systems in this list is not a good idea.


Well, yes and no. The definition of a metro system is highly arbitrary and a lot of systems fall into a grey area. Examples like the Berlin and Hamburg S-bahn systems are quite good. They possess nearly all the hallmarks of a metro system but are not counted as metro systems. Yet, Stockholm and Munich metro systems have extensive line branching (so two lines sharing the same track) more in line with commuter rail, but they are metro systems. Cleveland RTA (red line) is a metro system despite its service frequency (every 15 minutes). The Chicago El has level crossings etc etc etc. The list could go on ad infinitum. This is why I say it's a bit of a strange argument.


----------



## kunming tiger

Svartmetall said:


> Well, yes and no. The definition of a metro system is highly arbitrary and a lot of systems fall into a grey area. Examples like the Berlin and Hamburg S-bahn systems are quite good. They possess nearly all the hallmarks of a metro system but are not counted as metro systems. Yet, Stockholm and Munich metro systems have extensive line branching (so two lines sharing the same track) more in line with commuter rail, but they are metro systems. Cleveland RTA (red line) is a metro system despite its service frequency (every 15 minutes). The Chicago El has level crossings etc etc etc. The list could go on ad infinitum. This is why I say it's a bit of a strange argument.


 It's a logical and coherent argument it illustrates how complex and contradictory reality is and how it defies our ability to define or even comprehend it at times. There is no such thing as a definition that is so absolute that it can be applied to all things, all the time , everywhere. In effect there can be no clear definition of metro systems that can satisfy everybody.


----------



## Abhishek901

Svartmetall said:


> Well, yes and no. The definition of a metro system is highly arbitrary and a lot of systems fall into a grey area. Examples like the Berlin and Hamburg S-bahn systems are quite good. They possess nearly all the hallmarks of a metro system but are not counted as metro systems. Yet, Stockholm and Munich metro systems have extensive line branching (so two lines sharing the same track) more in line with commuter rail, but they are metro systems. Cleveland RTA (red line) is a metro system despite its service frequency (every 15 minutes). The Chicago El has level crossings etc etc etc. The list could go on ad infinitum. This is why I say it's a bit of a strange argument.


Well, the discussion is about those systems which are already classified as a metro system. For preparation of such a list, the first step is to identify metro systems and the second step is to find out the ridership of those metro systems. Earlier, we were discussing the second step, that's why I mentioned that once you have classified a system as a "metro system" in the first step, there is no need to go back and add other rail systems in that. You are right about the ambiguity associated with the first step but once we have taken a call to classify something as a metro system, it would be better to continue comparing apples with apples.


----------



## Sopomon

kunming tiger said:


> It's a logical and coherent argument it illustrates how complex and contradictory reality is and how it defies our ability to define or even comprehend it at times. There is no such thing as a definition that is so absolute that it can be applied to all things, all the time , everywhere. In effect there can be no clear definition of metro systems that can satisfy everybody.


----------



## CNB30

kunming tiger said:


> It's a logical and coherent argument it illustrates how complex and contradictory reality is and how it defies our ability to define or even comprehend it at times. There is no such thing as a definition that is so absolute that it can be applied to all things, all the time , everywhere. In effect there can be no clear definition of metro systems that can satisfy everybody.


But there are limits when it comes to rapid transit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_transit


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## saiho

Line 7 underground Depot










Line 7 will use 6B trains extendable to 8B trains. However transport forecasts predict that line usage will be very high from opening day, so the Beijing Subway is working on upgrading the trains to 8B sets ASAP. Its crazy how conservative their ridership forecasting is. Lucky for this line someone is thinking about the future. 

Source


----------



## foxmulder

Svartmetall said:


> Well, yes and no. The definition of a metro system is highly arbitrary and a lot of systems fall into a grey area. Examples like the Berlin and Hamburg S-bahn systems are quite good. They possess nearly all the hallmarks of a metro system but are not counted as metro systems. Yet, Stockholm and Munich metro systems have extensive line branching (so two lines sharing the same track) more in line with commuter rail, but they are metro systems. Cleveland RTA (red line) is a metro system despite its service frequency (every 15 minutes). The Chicago El has level crossings etc etc etc. The list could go on ad infinitum. This is why I say it's a bit of a strange argument.


Grade separation. That simple. If a "metro" line has no grade separation it is either a tram line or commuter rail.


----------



## Svartmetall

foxmulder said:


> Grade separation. That simple. If a "metro" line has no grade separation it is either a tram line or commuter rail.


No it isn't. Then the Chicago L is not a metro as it has at-grade portions (hence me saying in that original post that there are level crossings on the Chicago L). If it were so simple there would not be so many grey areas.


----------



## Silly_Walks

The moment there are at-grade crossings, it's not full metro.


----------



## Svartmetall

Silly_Walks said:


> The moment there are at-grade crossings, it's not full metro.


But not once have I seen people discount the Chicago L as being a metro. Yet here we go:








All "authorities" on classifying urban rail systems refer to the El (or L or whatever) as a heavy rail rapid transit system in the same vein as any other metro system around the world. Anyway, sorry for this extensive off-topic. The original point was meant to be that different definitions and criteria exclude or include various systems around the world, inflating or diminishing rapid transport network totals in different cities.


----------



## foxmulder

Svartmetall said:


> No it isn't. Then the Chicago L is not a metro as it has at-grade portions (hence me saying in that original post that there are level crossings on the Chicago L). If it were so simple there would not be so many grey areas.


Well, I don't see any gray areas. Frankly it is quite easy to distinguish commuter rails from metro lines or trams. 

We can discuss specific examples like "L" if we like to. I do not know anything about L. So, do you mind telling me what part of the line that road crossing is happening? I assume it is very outskirts of city where it can be acceptable because it will be an exception in the network and if it is not, if is is often at grade then for me it is a tram and if it is connecting Chicago metro area to close towns then it is a commuter line. 

For Seoul metro, the line between Incheon and Seoul is a commuter line. Incheon is a city which is very connected to Seoul. Maybe in 20 years it will be completely fused with Seoul and believe me at that time there will be real metro lines with grade separation between two centers. 

I think you somehow find commuter rail classification an insult? I think they are nice piece of infrastructure and a great solution for suburbs but they are not metros. Do you think commuter rail classification is a non-sense?


----------



## Svartmetall

^^ It's not about it being an insult, it's more about the whole point of segregating systems due to a set of criteria is rather bizarre and these days, due to the variety of systems around the world, is also rather redundant. Also, why does connecting two different cities based on (again) arbitrary boundaries that vary considerably between countries exclude something from being a metro? 

To address my specific example of Chicago, it is indeed part of Chicago and yes, in the suburbs, but your definition was that if it was not grade separated, it is not a metro. However, like I said, those that decide the definition of a "metro" all seem to count the Chicago El as a heavy rail, rapid transit system (in other words, a "metro"). It cannot be a tram as the rolling stock is completely wrong for a tram - despite it largely being at-grade. Same with the Cleveland system that I highlighted in my initial posts too (with 15 minute frequencies)...

As for "commuter rail" the name itself lends itself to ambiguity in English. The word commuter implies that it is primarily serving the purpose of relieving road traffic by moving commuters by rail. Many systems in the US that serve larger cities do indeed follow this pattern with little utilisation outside of commuting hours (see the Metra system in Chicago, the CalTrain system in the Bay Area et al), however, this definition does not hold for many of these "metro-like" systems like the Berlin or Hamburg S-bahn systems that really do have all the hallmarks of metro systems (but are not counted thusly), nor many of the lines in Seoul or Tokyo. Many lines in Tokyo are of particular note (such as the Yamanote line, or Chuo Rapid out to east Tokyo to name but two) given they possess frequencies beyond many metro sytems around the world, are grade-separated, are mostly elevated and carry significant off-peak patronage and cater for and multi-directional travel patterns (IE not CBD-centric), plus all of those lines that interline with the subway system. The very fact you say that "commuter rail is a great solution for the suburbs" shows the obvious bias - when in reality, the lines in the two systems I mention above that don't normally get called "metro" lines have more functionality than many metro systems around the world that I have been on. 

These anomalies are exactly what I have been pointing out to the purists that believe that only if something is called a metro it is a metro - however, the assigning of the metro tag seems to be wholly arbitrary. But I can see this is a fruitless argument as you'll always have a camp on either side arguing that their definition is more correct.


----------



## saiho

I know that the definition of a metro system has some exceptions and get pretty grey at times. However, this debate can go on forever with no good final outcome, so can we please get back to talking about the Beijing Subway.


----------



## big-dog

saiho said:


> Any news on Qilizhuang Station?


Feb 15 Interchange station Qilizhuang opens

Qilizhuang station is the interchange station of Line 9 and Line 14.















--comet


----------



## buenosaireseze

Very nice and huge infrastructure.


----------



## saiho

Commuters feel the strain of taking Beijing subway

Good Video


----------



## mistermonorail

Beijing Monorail construction to begin this year…

http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/News.html


----------



## saiho

mistermonorail said:


> Beijing Monorail construction to begin this year…
> 
> http://www.monorails.org/tMspages/News.html


This is the thing I love about how China handles transport infrastructure. Things just happen and get done. I didn't even know there was a monorail proposal and here it is ready to go.


----------



## saiho

Update:
Here is what the West Monorail will look like


















Source

There are also talks for a monorail in the east side of Beijing along the 4th ring road.


----------



## big-dog

saiho said:


> This is the thing I love about how China handles transport infrastructure. Things just happen and get done. I didn't even know there was a monorail proposal and here it is ready to go.


And there's a 10km tram line starting construction this month or so in Beijing which people rarely notice it happening.


----------



## CNGL

On the monorail map I see two planned metro* lines that are unknown to me. One is line 11, which appears to run between the Beijing West Railway station (And further East to Changchunjie on line 2?) and the Western suburbs, and the other is the Northern extension of the Fangshan line, which appears to cross line 10 at Shoujingmao and may reach Changchujie too. Any maps of these?

* Yes, I know Beijing calls its metro system "subway".


----------



## saiho

East 4th ring road monorail line.

36km long, 21 stations. Transfer available to Lines 1, 3, 7, 12, and 14 but not 6.


----------



## CarlosBlueDragon

what number will open at 798 art station?


----------



## saiho

Batong Line Testing PSGs


----------



## big-dog

CarlosBlueDragon said:


> what number will open at 798 art station?


Line 14 will have a station near 798. At present you can take Line 10 or Line 15 and transfer bus (#402) to get there.


----------



## saiho

Line 10 Songjiazhuang Depot Starts Construction

A 32 train capacity yard will allow for more trains to be assigned to Line 10. Allowing the headway on line 10 to be reduced to a train every 2 min.


----------



## big-dog

Today's train accident: a Line 4 testing train run onto road

nobody got hurt luckily.









by 京港地铁


----------



## Silly_Walks

This is why you test


----------



## foxmulder

Exactly. It looks like a low speed test?


----------



## MetroHere

*Beijing Subway*

Here is updated Beijing Subway 2014 English/Chinese version.

English only and Chinese only are available at http://www.metrohere.com/china/beijing-subway-2014/


----------



## _Night City Dream_

The more I see Beijing map the more I have a feeling that it is built as us, with no careful planning. The system is immense but poor in fact, not very convenient in terms of alternatives. Am I right?

Shanghai metro is much thoroughly designed allowing tens of variants of trips o get to the same place.


----------



## Falubaz

^^I had the same thoughts... there are several lines in Beijing that dont have transfers. You need to transfer twice or even more times to get to your destinations.


----------



## digory

Still a lot of work to be done.


----------



## Svartmetall

^^ It's when you see a map like that you realise how ambitious the plans are. That system looks huge.


----------



## Peloso

Svartmetall said:


> ^^ It's when you see a map like that you realise how ambitious the plans are. That system looks huge.


Indeed. Also look at the intricate roundabout at the southern end of the line that is allegedly going to join the current, and the future, capital airports. That looks like it's a first.


----------



## Sopomon

Are many of those lines going to become more commuter style in operation?

Having a network comprised almost entirely of stopping services is going to leave those in the outer suburbs at quite a disadvantage.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

digory said:


> Still a lot of work to be done.


Is it a fantasy map or real plans?

If this would be a reality that would mean some 2000 km of tracks at least.


----------



## Silly_Walks

Please don't quote entire big pictures. It screws up many phones.


----------



## big-dog

_Night City Dream_ said:


> The more I see Beijing map the more I have a feeling that it is built as us, with no careful planning. The system is immense but poor in fact, not very convenient in terms of alternatives. Am I right?
> 
> Shanghai metro is much thoroughly designed allowing tens of variants of trips o get to the same place.


I have the same feeling. In Beijing you may have to transfer more times to get to the destination where it's much better for Shanghai. I had lived in Beijing for years most of the metro lines are designed based on the popular bus routes, i.e. Line 4 is going the same route with bus rt#25, Line 10 is a copy of bus rt#300 etc. The designer should think out of the routine way and reduce unnecessary transfers. But things may get better when more lines and interchanges are built.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Sorry for quoting but still, is it a real map or a phantasy one?


----------



## :jax:

About 80-85% seem to match other plans for 2020. The remaining I haven't seen before (like the Daxing airport roundabout), so on the whole it seems real, to the degree plans are real. The network is likely to look somewhat like this, if not exactly like this.


----------



## :jax:

Here's an earlier map in this thread. The regular lines are real, as in opened or opening this year, with thin lines planned ones. 



big-dog said:


> Beijing metro map by the end of 2014
> 
> 
> 
> map made by punch, ditiezu.com


----------



## :jax:

So that would mean for 400 RMB you would get 100 + 50*1.2 + 250*2 = 660 RMB worth of travel or 22 RMB/day for 30 days (or 30 RMB/day if you have 5 day working week). 

Perhaps the "preferential policy for outside rush hours" would be something like Singapore's? Reportedly you travel for free if you are out of the system by 8 A.M. The logic is of course that that by traveling earlier there would be less travelers come rush hour.


----------



## big-dog

Svartmetall said:


> ^^ Noooo, so I have to endure fare rises while I'm in Beijing!
> 
> Have you got a link to the news article, I'd like to forward it to people (Chinese is fine)?


Now it's like Shanghai's metro fare, still not very expensive to developed country's standard 

here's the news link.

http://beijing.china.org.cn/2014-11/28/content_34175443.htm


----------



## Woonsocket54

*Line 7 to open by end of year*









http://www.jianzhan580.net/new/beijingditie7haoxian/10996.htm









http://ml.china.com.cn/html/guanzhu/20141127/483948.html


----------



## _Night City Dream_

hkskyline said:


> People use smart cards. There is no need to queue for tickets every morning.





big-dog said:


> It's good for travelers but I wonder if many local people will buy it for they all use smart cards for metro/buses.


I didn't mean that. I wonder why nowhere in China avaialble, say, month tickets. Shanghai can only offer 3-day illimited pass, which is 45 RMB. Even smart cards, which are in fact e-wallets, they don't offer an illimited number of rides.

In Western countries and in Russia we do have month and even year tickets. In many European countries there are also week tickets and season tickets. But I've never seen kind of that in China or Hong Kong or Bangkok.

In Moscow I usually charge my Troyka card, putting there only 18200 rubles (which was 520 USD, now less than 400 because of the ruble fall down) and I can use Metro, monorail, buses, trams and trolleybuses whenever I want, as much as I want within 365 days.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

big-dog said:


> Now it's like Shanghai's metro fare, still not very expensive to developed country's standard


Shanghai metro is much more expensive than Moscow metro yet Moscow (and Russia overall) is much more expensive than Shanghai.


----------



## Woonsocket54

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Shanghai metro is much more expensive than Moscow metro yet Moscow (and Russia overall) is much more expensive than Shanghai.


That's not entirely true. Moscow has a flat fare of 40 RUB (USD 0.80). While Shanghai has fares ranging from 3 RMB to 15 RMB (USD 0.49 to USD 2.44)


----------



## big-dog

I go to work in Shanghai from Xujiahui to Pudong Zhangjiang, quite far by local standard, and pay 5 RMB (USD 0.82) per trip (metro). I guess most other people pay less for their metro trips.


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## _Night City Dream_

Woonsocket54 said:


> That's not entirely true. Moscow has a flat fare of 40 RUB (USD 0.80). While Shanghai has fares ranging from 3 RMB to 15 RMB (USD 0.49 to USD 2.44)


40 RUB is a recent increase, before it was cheaper. But almost nobody buys 1-trip tickets. We've got tickets for 5, 10, 20, 60 etc trips, every ride being cheaper and cheaper. And then we've got month tickets, tickets for 90 days and 365 days. With them you really travel around much cheaper than in Shanghai.

Don't forget also that the tickets down here in Moscow are valid for all means of transport. And last year special 90-minute tickets were introduced. They allow you to make 1 ride on metro and as many rides on surface transport as you wish within 90 minutes.

So, getting around in Moscow by public transport is way cheaper than in great cities of China.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...irst-driverless-metro-trains.html?channel=525
> 
> *CNR previews Beijing's first driverless trains*
> Wednesday, December 03, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _CHINA Northern Locomotive and Rolling Stock Corporation (CNR) has released artist's impressions of the driverless trains it will deliver next year for the first metro line in Beijing to be equipped for Unattended Train Operation (UTO)_
> 
> CNR is supplying a fleet of 60 eight-car stainless steel-bodied Type-B trains for the 10-station Yanfang Line under a contract awarded earlier this year. Each set will be capable of accommodating up to 1262 passengers.
> 
> The Yanfang Line will run for 15.2km from an interchange with the Fangshan Line at Cheliangduan station to Raolefu, where the line will divide into two branches serving Zhoukoudianzhen and Yanhua. Commercial services are expected to begin in December 2015
> 
> ...


----------



## CNGL

I believe Yanfang Line is under construction, but only the Yanhua branch. Or is the Zhoukoudian branch U/C too? Anyway, I think this should have been an extension of the Fangshan line, since it would be too much time wasted in the transfers from the Yanfang to the Fangshan and then to line 9.


----------



## Woonsocket54

Is there a possibility of through-service like on Daxing Line and Line 4?


----------



## saiho

Woonsocket54 said:


> Is there a possibility of through-service like on Daxing Line and Line 4?


Fangshan Line will be extended North to Fengyiqiao. Making it behave more like a separate line.










The Yanfang Line trains kind of look like Chengdu Metro Line 4's trains except not ugly.


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## xeror

^^I guess he meant through service between Yanfang Line and Fangshan Line, eliminating the interchange at Yancun North Station. This could be feasible if they want to but I doubt that would happen because of the poor systematic design in the subway history, considering the separations of Batong Line & Line 1, Yizhuang Line & Line 5, and Mentougou Line & Line 6. Not to mention the long walking distance at some of the interchange stations.


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## Woonsocket54

Yes, that's exactly what I meant, and you are correct regarding my gender. Are all of these lines owned by Beijing Subway Corporation, or whatever it's called? In Tokyo they have through-running on lines owned by different companies, so I don't know why Beijing couldn't make it work with a subway monopoly.


----------



## CNGL

xeror said:


> [C]onsidering the separations of (...) Mentougou Line & Line 6.


Tell me the brilliant idea of making through service between line 6 (A regular subway line) and the Mentougou line a.k.a. line S1 (Which will be a Maglev line)


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## xeror

CNGL said:


> Tell me the brilliant idea of making through service between line 6 (A regular subway line) and the Mentougou line a.k.a. line S1 (Which will be a Maglev line)


Of course it can't be done once you built it that way. But it shouldn't be a maglev line in the first place. It's much better to eliminate the transfer time than to show off that you can build a maglev subway line. That's why I said it's a poor systematic design. They're not thinking the system as a whole but rather each line individually.:bash:


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## skyridgeline

xeror said:


> Of course it can't be done once you built it that way. But it shouldn't be a maglev line in the first place. It's much better to *eliminate the transfer time *than to show off that you can build a maglev subway line. That's why I said it's a poor systematic design. They're not thinking the system as a whole but rather each line individually.:bash:


Different schedules. And the S1 line may be further extended in the future into the "getaway" areas.


----------



## :jax:

In that part of Beijing there are plenty mountains in the way. I don't see how the metro lines could sprawl out like they do elsewhere. 

This is my main gripe with the Beijing transport system, they have many wonderful pieces that aren't always joined up very well. In some cases it is a case of "not ready yet", but there are also structural choices that can't easily be changed. Excessive transfer time is one of them. 

I have idly played with the idea of adding connecting tunnels so that trains from one line could run on the tracks of another line, reducing transfers and transfer time. Wouldn't be easy or cheap though.


----------



## Woonsocket54

China Radio
http://english.cri.cn/12394/2014/12/04/3781s855248.htm



> *Beijing Sets 4-hour Limit for Subway Rides*
> 2014-12-04 19:27:51 CRIENGLISH.com Web Editor: Li Bin
> 
> *The company in charge of running Beijing's subways has set a four-hour transfer limit for each ride in response to those so-called "fee-saving" solutions shared on the internet.
> 
> The time limit is the latest move of the capital's public transportation pricing reform which goes into effect on December 28 this year.
> 
> If a passenger fails to finish a ride within four hours, he or she will have to pay an additional three yuan, or the starting price for a single trip, before being let out of the subway.*
> 
> According to calculations, the longest trip on Beijing subways mounts to 88 kilometers, covering 47 stations, which takes 143 minutes.
> 
> *Among the "fee-saving" schemes, one solution suggests that a passenger could swipe card A at the initial station, but use card B to walk out of the destination stop. By doing this, a passenger has to spend only three yuan for each journey however long.*
> 
> The subway authority has warned passengers not to take risks, for once caught, the person could face a penalty of ten times of the thorough fare of a single trip, which is nine yuan.
> 
> Beijing's municipal government announced the price hike for the city's public transportation system in late November.
> 
> Under the new pricing scheme, for a single journey on the city's subway, the fare for a trip of no more than six kilometers is three yuan ($US 0.49).
> 
> Traveling a distance between six and 12 kilometers will cost a passenger four yuan. Beyond that, one yuan per 10 kilometer will be added to the total fare for a single subway trip spanning between 12 and 32 kilometers.
> 
> Currently, the city's subway fare is two yuan for a single journey, no matter the distance.
> 
> The subway company says it will set up conspicuous signs in each station to inform passengers of the new pricing policy.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Hehe^ and what should I person, who just wants to travel around and take pictures of metro, do?


----------



## :jax:

Falubaz said:


> It's so nice to see how fast the metros in China grow, but its a pity that all stations look more or less the same. One can't distingish stations in Guangzhou, Beijing or Xi'an. In some cases you can observe some local details, but in overall they are all very similar.


That seems to be the case with most architecture these days. Often you can pinpoint to a few years when a construction was made, but it can be very hard to tell which part of China it is from. A good or popular idea one place is quickly taken up many other places.


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## Svartmetall

:jax: said:


> That seems to be the case with most architecture these days. Often you can pinpoint to a few years when a construction was made, but it can be very hard to tell which part of China it is from. A good or popular idea one place is quickly taken up many other places.


To be frank, is that such a bad thing? I would rather have a more dull looking metro like the Beijing subway than the damp, dark but "artistic" caves of Stockholm. Those things just don't work and feel awful to use on a daily basis. Much better to use a system that works than a system trying to entertain tourists.


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## Slartibartfas

^^ I like the caves a lot. It is the other stations in Stockholm which look rather modest. But I was never a regular user of them to be honest.


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## Falubaz

Really? I love Stockholm's caves!


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## Svartmetall

Slartibartfas said:


> ^^ I like the caves a lot. It is the other stations in Stockholm which look rather modest. But I was never a regular user of them to be honest.


I use a cave station daily. They suck for regular users as they are so depressing - it's bad enough we never get any light in this country anyway, let alone when the stations are so dreary. They are leaky, damp and dark. Give me a brightly lit, functional and easy to use metro station that is not pointlessly deep like most of the cave stations are. When I visited Stockholm, I thought the same as you guys - "wow, aren't these amazing, they look incredible". Then I used them daily and realised that they don't feel as nice as a regular metro station. There is no concourse level and many stations only have one exit too, so they're not very well planned either like these metro stations that, whilst being dull are far more useful for regular users. I guess I'm just not someone who puts artistic consideration above function.


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## Svartmetall

Exterior shot of Liujiayao station on Line 5.





Again at platform level of Liujiayao station.






Dongsi station at line 5 platforms.








Dongsi station line 6 platforms.


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## saiho

Falubaz said:


> It's so nice to see how fast the metros in China grow, but its a pity that all stations look more or less the same. One can't distingish stations in Guangzhou, Beijing or Xi'an. In some cases you can observe some local details, but in overall they are all very similar.


Ya similar as in they all work really well. No need to make it any different. I would rather have a station that works well than a fancy one. Stations with an artistic flair get old really fast to a daily user.


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## Abhishek901

I believe this is because the stations in other countries were built over many decades, that's why they appear different.

Also, in China, dozens of cities are building metro simultaneously. We haven't seen that in western countries. More metros mean more and more repetition.


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## Silly_Walks

Standardization means less costs. Less costs means more metro.

I'd pick more metro over subjective beauty any day.


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## nonotz

actually some station do looks very different ... 

YongHeGong Station , Olympic Forest Park Station , JiangTai station etc

my only complaint is that , in some lines there is no platform door , where its just an opening (I cant stop thinking someone will just push me over  )

oh yea another one , the security check makes a massive queue at rush hour ... :hammer:


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## Severiano

The security checks are ridiculous. I took the subway in Beijing last Sunday, and the line was long. I can't imagine what it is like during peak hours. With this and the taxi situation it is pretty much impossible to go anywhere in Beijing anymore. There are security checks in Shanghai and Nanjing but you can just put your head down and blow by them 99% of the time. 

It is such a shock in cities like Guangzhou where you can just walk on the subway without having security or fences blocking walkways.


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## Svartmetall

More pictures. 

Nanluoguxiang on line 8. 






The new Beijing subway maps. 







Line indicator above the door. 






I know it's a blurry shot, but I loved this picture. Don't bleed on our trains and mind not just one, but ALL the gaps!


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## Svartmetall

Okay, so you guys wanted to see a beautiful, different and highly decorated station? Here is one for you - South Gate of Forest Park station. This one is truly beautiful without seeming dreary and "artistic for arts sake" like some overdecorated stations can feel. The ceiling looks like a tree canopy with light coming between the branches. The platform walls/platform screen doors are decorated with forest scenes as well. Just little touches to make the station "different" to others. 









Here is an interchange video at Guloudajie station. Walking from Line 8 to line 2. 









Train arriving at Guloudajie station on line 2. You can see that most people wait for people to exit before going onto the train. I actually found Beijingers to be much more polite at boarding the subway than I expected (and more polite than Shanghai).


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## Falubaz

^^Oh, Forest Park St. is pretty nice and my fave one in Beijing! 
Not all have to be like that though, but some could be. That gives you the impression of something more than just a place where you board the metro. Plus it's nice to see differents things on the way, not all in the same style.


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## Svartmetall

^^ But a lot of concourses in the centre did have some kind of artwork. I took pictures of many of them. At Nanluoguxiang station, you can see in my photo that they mirrored the grey bricks of the Hutong in the bricks on the stairs. The corridors were similarly appointed too, which was a nice nod to heritage of the area (amongst other features of course). This is easy to do in old areas, but new areas are not so good.


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## ddes

Svartmetall said:


> Train arriving at Guloudajie station on line 2. You can see that most people wait for people to exit before going onto the train. I actually found Beijingers to be much more polite at boarding the subway than I expected (and more polite than Shanghai).


I've to agree, I was just in China in December and noticed that difference. Beijing subway etiquette has improved significantly since 2011, and I'd dare say, in some areas, better than my home country of Singapore's.


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## hkskyline

Yes, Shanghai metro is much like the wild wild west! I still recall not many years ago that there are helpers at bus stops to entice people to line up.


----------



## VECTROTALENZIS

Maybe the northern Chinese are just more civilized the southern Chinese...


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## _Night City Dream_

Right the contrary.


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## _Night City Dream_

saiho said:


> Ya similar as in they all work really well. No need to make it any different. I would rather have a station that works well than a fancy one. Stations with an artistic flair get old really fast to a daily user.


Wrong. It depends on so many factors.



Svartmetall said:


> To be frank, is that such a bad thing? I would rather have a more dull looking metro like the Beijing subway than the damp, dark but "artistic" caves of Stockholm. Those things just don't work and feel awful to use on a daily basis. Much better to use a system that works than a system trying to entertain tourists.


Go for Moscow. We have clean and very artistic stations and one of the most efficient metro systems in the world.



Svartmetall said:


> Train arriving at Guloudajie station on line 2. You can see that most people wait for people to exit before going onto the train. I actually found Beijingers to be much more polite at boarding the subway than I expected (and more polite than Shanghai).


On this video there ARE people who get in before letting get out. In Shanghai many impolite passengers are those who come from rural areas, and mostly these are northern Chinese. Shanghaiese themselves or their neighbours from Zhejianf or Jiangsu are much more polite.


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## Svartmetall

^^ I heartily disagree. Shanghai was a much ruder city overall. Nowhere else in China did I have people push me physically out of the way in queues like I did in Shanghai. In Beijing overall people did wait to get on the metro - in the video you can see there was clearly enough space for them to enter as there were not many people coming off the train at that time. No, overall I would say that Shanghai is a nicer city, but the people were nothing like as nice as those in Beijing.

Also, if you think that is pushing to get on a train, you'd also hate Stockholm then as that is exactly how it is here.


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## Herzarsen

^^

I have to agree with Svartmetall. I have lived over a year in Beijing and now a year in Shanghai. Shanghai people are ruthless when it comes to getting off and on subway. Everyone pushes without saying anything. And if they see a seat then even worse. (I personally think the NYE stampede would not have happened in Beijing). Plus they disregard rules of the security guards. 90% dont bother to have their bags checked and just walk passed the workers. 

@_Night City Dream_ Your comment about line 2 video does not prove anything. Line 1 and 2 in Beijing are frequented by visitors from other provinces. Both Shanghai and Beijing get their share. But from my personal experience and experience of others that I know, although you can find exceptions everywhere, Beijinger's are overall much more polite and friendly people compared to typical Shanghainese, which are more about money, speed, and focusing on one's own gain. Having said that you will find people from other provinces in Shanghai who are polite and nice as well.


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## Svartmetall

Some more Beijing Subway artwork. Again, featuring South Gate of Forest Park Station. 







Nanluoguxiang station. 







Guloudajie station entrance. 






Line 2 platforms at Guloudajie. 






Concourse of Chaoyangmen station (sorry for the blur, it's difficult to get good shots in this light). 





Connecting passage between Galaxy SOHO and Chaoyangmen station.


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## ddes

I don't think the argument is that Shanghainese are ruder than Beijingers. When I was there, there were no real discernible differences in politeness. However, the subway etiquette is another thing altogether, and I think much of the reason why Beijing sees better subway etiquette is because of the constant drilling of announcements about moving in if you're traveling a longer distance and others..., none of which are played as often or at all in Shanghai, and perhaps understanding that Beijing's system is inherently more transfer oriented compared to Shanghai's increasingly more point to point network.


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## Ramino

Svartmetall said:


> Train arriving at Guloudajie station on line 2. You can see that most people wait for people to exit before going onto the train. I actually found Beijingers to be much more polite at boarding the subway than I expected (and more polite than Shanghai).


Wow, That's a HUGE difference since my last visit!


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## Svartmetall

Few more photos for you (some videos to come in a couple of days). 

Here we go with line 2 at Chaoyangmen.





And line 6 at Chaoyangmen. 





Next day in Beijing. Transferring from line 5 to line 10 at Songjiazhuang. The Yizhuang line is also here. 









Changing to line 4 from line 10 at Jiaomen shi. 







Lots more to come.


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## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...line-16-concession-agreement.html?channel=540
> 
> *Beijing Metro line 16 concession agreement signed*
> Monday, February 09, 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _THE concession agreement for Beijing Metro Line 16 was signed on February 8 by the Beijing Municipal Government, Beijing MTR Corporation Ltd and the three shareholders of Beijing MTR_
> 
> Under the agreement, subject to approval by relevant authorities, Beijing MTR will undertake the operations and maintenance of Line 16 for a 30-year term. Construction of the 50km Line, which is part of a Public-Private Partnership (PPP) project, will include 29 stations and has a total capital cost of about Yuan 49.5bn ($US 7.9m).
> 
> Beijing MTR is a joint venture comprising MTR Corporation Limited (49%), Beijing Capital Group Limited (49%) and Beijing Infrastructure Investment Corporation Limited (2%). Phase 1 is targeted to open by the end of 2016 and full line operations are expected to commence after 2017
> 
> ...


----------



## Svartmetall

A couple more videos. 

First interchanging from line 5 to line 10 at Songjiazhuang station. 









Next, walking through Xidan station to the line 1 platforms. If you listen carefully, you can hear the Japanese song (the Dango Song) or Dango Daikazaku playing in the background! I didn't notice it was even there until I heard it when I uploaded it now!


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## NergiZed

dimlys1994 said:


> From Rail Journal:


Such wondrous news, Beijing MTR runs things much better than the Beijing Mass Transit. I'm already incredibly happy that line 14 is run by them, and I've heard that they've done a good job with line 4.


----------



## ddes

NergiZed said:


> Such wondrous news, Beijing MTR runs things much better than the Beijing Mass Transit. I'm already incredibly happy that line 14 is run by them, and I've heard that they've done a good job with line 4.


To be honest, I thought Beijing Subway does a better job as far as crowd control is concerned. Beijing MTR always seemed shocked that so many people ride the line.


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## hkskyline

ddes said:


> To be honest, I thought Beijing Subway does a better job as far as crowd control is concerned. Beijing MTR always seemed shocked that so many people ride the line.


Guess you haven't been on Lines 1 and 2 lately ...


----------



## lkstrknb

http://www.chinadailyasia.com/business/2014-02/19/content_15119182.html

Maglev trains speeding toward greener future

Wednesday, February 19, 2014, 08:35
By ZHONG NAN in Tangshan, Hebei

China CNR Corp Ltd, one of the country’s biggest train makers, will deliver by year’s end 10 six-coach maglev trains to Beijing’s subway system for what will be the country’s second commercial urban maglev rail route.
Anxious to tackle environmental problems caused by heavy car use, coal-burning industries and the fast pace of urbanization, Beijing is building a maglev urban rail route — the Daitai line, also known as the S1 — that will start at North Beijing’s Haidian district, pass through Shijingshan district and end in Mentougou district in Beijing’s western outskirts. The 11-kilometer line will become operational some time between September and December 2015.


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## saiho

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Wrong. It depends on so many factors.


Like what? Use cases and cultural factors are more or less similar across China proper.


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## ddes

hkskyline said:


> Guess you haven't been on Lines 1 and 2 lately ...


Lately, as in these past month? Nope, but till Christmas, yes, every day.


----------



## ode of bund

On January 15th, Beijing has quietly inserted some trolleys on BRT3, and thus instituting the fifth trolley BRT in the world after Tehran, Quito, Merida, and Boston. At 23km of total route length, BRT3 is also the longest trolley route in China now, surpassing Beijing's route 118 at 17km. Currently BRT3 is still predominantly a diesel service, but won't be for very long. Trolleys will eventually replace all diesels. 

BRT3 was created in 2008 before the Beijing Olympics. It runs from An-ding-men (安定门), a subway station on Beijing's 2nd Ring Road, to Hong-fu-yuan (宏福苑), a newly developed residential community at city's far upper northern outskirts. Electrification started in November 2014, rapid progress was made in construction of new sub-stations, stringing of wires, as well as a new fleet of trolley-buses by Young-MAN Auto Industry in Jinhua, Zhejiang Province, so that by January, trolleys are ready to roll.

Here is a route map of Beijing BRT3









Various pictures of Young-MAN EBRT trolleys.


----------



## ode of bund

Meanwhile, Beijing is also working on converting BRT1 to trolley as well.


----------



## dodge321

ddes said:


> To be honest, I thought Beijing Subway does a better job as far as crowd control is concerned. Beijing MTR always seemed shocked that so many people ride the line.


Line 4 in Shenzhen is operated by MTR Corp, I don't see what's so special about it. Most noticeable difference is that the English announcement is the same British English you hear in Hong Kong MTR, meh.


----------



## dodge321

Man how Beijing Metro has grown since 2008, when I last lived there. Next time I go I'll need to spend at least a day just on the metro system. (What fun.)

Regarding boarding & disembarking etiquette, I find Shenzhen has improved noticeably as well.


----------



## Svartmetall

So here are a few more videos from Beijing, including a more rare video from a bus.

Here is bus number 2 from Tiananmen dong to shazikou. 








Line 1 at Tiananmen xi. 









Line 1 at Wangfujing - two trains departing. 








Hope you guys are enjoying this.


----------



## hkskyline

dodge321 said:


> Line 4 in Shenzhen is operated by MTR Corp, I don't see what's so special about it. Most noticeable difference is that the English announcement is the same British English you hear in Hong Kong MTR, meh.


The key difference is transparency. MTR reports even short delays to the public, which was unimaginable in mainland metros before.


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## nhat huy

i think it'll be one of the greatest metro systems in few years.
i would be thankful if you post more pics.


----------



## saiho

*Beijing Subway starting a public review of 25 Transfer stations *
For the the upcoming round of groundbreakings for 3, 12, 17, Fangshan North Extension and Airport Line West Extension.

Highlighting transfer stations of Line 12

The beastly Suzhouqiao station interchange lines 12 and 16 both 8 A car lines.










The triple parallel Sanyuanqiao Station interchange Lines 12, 10 and airport.










the non perpendicular Gaojiayuan Station interchange lines 12 and 14










Source


----------



## saiho

*Beijing Subway starting a public review of 25 Transfer stations *
For the the upcoming round of groundbreakings for 3, 12, 17, Fangshan North Extension and Airport Line West Extension.

Highlighting transfer stations of Line 17

The 3 line (10, 14 and 17) complex of Shilihe Station. Personally I think they missed a great opportunity to build a Spanish solution layout for line 17 under a cross platform interchange layout between Lines 14 and 10. Similar to what is being done with Tianhe Park and Caihongqiao Stations in Guangzhou. 










The impressive "Tokyoish" Dongdaqiao Station. Interchange between Lines 6 and 17. Note the reservation of the rumored "CBD" APM line. Also I would like to see dedicated interchange corridors between it and the BRT that runs on top. 










Two opposing plans for Wangjing West Station Interchange between Lines 13, 15 and 17
Plan 1: 
2 transfer corridors directly connected to Line 17's concourse separated by which direction you want to transfer to on line 13 
Line 13 to Line 15 transfer unchanged









Plan 2: 
1 wide transfer corridor directly connected to Line 17's concourse and both line 13 platforms
Line 13 to Line 15 transfer served by new tunneled corridor connected to Line 15's concourse and both line 13 platforms 









I prefer Plan 2 because it reserves room for another transfer corridor between Lines 17 and 13 making the set up similar to Plan 1. Also the old Line 15 to 13 transfer corridor can be used as a back up should the need arise or reconditioned as additional station exits. 

Source


----------



## :jax:

Some of the mostly off-topic discussion in the *CHINA | High Speed Rail* thread about commuter rail should be relevant here, like:


:jax: said:


> With the Jingjinji plans, including distributing functionality (not a good idea if the goal is to reduce traffic if you ask me, but the government didn't), medium-range/speed transport will be necessary in the Beijing region.
> 
> Fortunately the government seems to agree. China sets sights on developing mid-speed inter-city railway network





chornedsnorkack said:


> A plan for Hebei:
> http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2015-09/17/content_21907321.htm
> 
> 3453 km... by 2050!





:jax: said:


> Beijing (this basically goes for almost all the other huge urban regions as well) is growing much faster in girth than in population. It has doubled in population in 25 years, but the reach has increased much faster. I've been in Beijing about five year, during which the 5th ring is moving into the position the 4th ring had (then the centre was within the 3rd ring, the growth ring between 3rd and 4th, outside the 4th ring was residential, outside 5th ring was outskirts). The area covered by the 5th ring is more than double the area covered by the 4th. That means more variable density along the rings.
> 
> The railway ring in the article chornedsnorkack linked to seems to run parallel to the useful parts of 7th ring.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, the 7th ring, apart from the eastern and southern side, will not be a ring road, nor a ring, but a bypass. Beijing has finally hit a geographical constraint to growth, the mountain range in the north and west.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Based on the map I estimate the ring ("loop line") to be about 350 km in length, long enough to be HSR and for HSR to make sense, but much of the distance would have to go in tunnels through less populated mountain parts. The J Miyun-Zhuzhou should be cheaper to build and with much more traffic.


----------



## saiho

*12 More subway Projects to be completed in 5 years*

Projects to be initiated include:

Line 3 Phase 1
Line 6 Western Extension (apparently not started)
Line 7 Eastern Extension
Line 8 Phase 3 South Extension (apparently not started but most likely referring to section beyond Wufutang)
Line 12
Line 17
Line 19
Pinggu Suburban Metro
CBD APM
Fangshan North Extension
Batong South Extension
Airport Line West Extension

The total length of the Beijing Subway will reach 998.5km by 2020. :banana: 

What is interesting is how the New Airport Line is not mentioned.

Source

As for other projects I heard rumblings of northern extensions of Line 5 and 9. In addition to southern extensions of Changping but those are most likely 2020-2025's problem, along with Express Line 1.


----------



## kunming tiger

CBD-APM any additional details?


----------



## CNGL

The only thing I know about that APM (which I didn't knew before) is that it will intersect lines 6 and 17 at Dongdaqiao. It may also intersect line 1 and/or line 10.

That Batong South extension (likely beyond Tuqiao) is news for me, too. I believe the line 7 extension is most likely a compromise for the cancelled 4th ring road monorail. And the Pinggu suburban line is the line that will bring Beijing subway to Hebei (something I read some time ago)... But to that Hebei exclave .

BTW, Express line 1 has been called line 18 for some time now.


----------



## prangar

New lines (Line 3, Line 7 Eastern Extension, Line 12, Line 17, Line 19, Line 22* and New Airport Express) have been added to Wikipedia's Beijing Subway Plan (for 2021):

[It seems like I can't post links yet.]

Lines 18 (R1), 11, CBD-APM and possible 20 & 21 are still missing however.

* It appears that Line 22 is the same as the one referred to as Pinggu Suburban Metro by saiho above.

--
Do you know anything about Western Suburban Line, is it under construction? What type of rail it will be after all, tram, monorail or low-speed maglev?
Thx.


----------



## CNGL

prangar said:


> New lines (Line 3, Line 7 Eastern Extension, Line 12, Line 17, Line 19, Line 22* and New Airport Express) have been added to Wikipedia's Beijing Subway Plan (for 2021):
> 
> 
> 
> Lines 18 (R1), 11, CBD-APM and possible 20 & 21 are still missing however.
> 
> * It appears that Line 22 is the same as the one referred to as Pinggu Suburban Metro by saiho above.


FTFY. They have restored the Zhoukoudian branch of the Yanqing-Fangshan line. I've seen lines 20 and 21 in another map posted earlier in this thread.


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## Dr.Dennis.Deng

@ prangar: the Western Suburban Line will be a modern Tram Line. It is currently under construction.


----------



## Dr.Dennis.Deng

Does anyone have information if and when Line 7 will eventually stop at Shuangjing? 

(What would be the "Spanish solution" as mentioned earlier in this threat?)


----------



## saiho

*Beijing Subway Line 10 and Line 6 to shorten peak headways*

With the opening of the new Line 10 Songjiazhuang Depot and acquisition of additional trains, Line 10 AM peak headway is shorted to every 2 min and PM peak to every 2 min and 5 sec. There are now 98 6 car trains sets pooled for line 10 an increase of 26 from last year.

Increasing passenger demand on Line 6 has prompted officials to reduce headways of Line 6 services from 3 min 15 sec to every 3 min in AM peak and 3 min to 2 min 45 sec on PM peak. 

Source


----------



## Ashis Mitra

At last line 7 opened. It was a long wish from me. This line is an important line, crosses the city area towards south-east. Also extension of line 6 and 15 happened, which have strengthented the network more. Especially line 6 is the backbone of the network.

But one thing exclaimed me, that line 14 is still not connected fully. There is a long gap between Jintailu and Xiju. Why they did such incomplete work? It should better if they rather complete this section first, that is completing the line between Jintailu and Xiju, and construct northern and western extension later. People now must change via line 10 and 6 to complete this journey between this section. I can’t appreciate this decision.


----------



## CNGL

^^ Even worse, most of the gap will be filled by the end of current year, but the section between Xiju and the South station won't be completed until 2019 due to the planning of Lize area. Anyway, there are no Northern or Western extesions planned.


----------



## :jax:

For most purposes it will make more sense to look at it as two metro lines for the time being, e.g. 14SW and 14NE. At least these two sections are connected to the rest of the network, unlike what 9/Fangshan was. Though as relief to the 10 line the 14 lines are of limited value.


----------



## saiho

:jax: said:


> For most purposes it will make more sense to look at it as two metro lines for the time being, e.g. 14SW and 14NE. At least these two sections are connected to the rest of the network, unlike what 9/Fangshan was. Though as relief to the 10 line the 14 lines are of limited value.


Relief to Line 10 will be sufficient for the time being. The higher priority would be relief for Lines 1, 4, 5 and 13. My worry is when phase I of Line 16 opens, it will pour riders into the already congested Line 4. With the delay of Line 14 through Lize, I doubt the Line 16 section through Lize will be unaffected. Making the completion of the line by 2017 unlikely.


----------



## doc7austin

One always has to wonder about infrastructure projects in China:
How did the people travel before the opening of the many subway lines?
There was a time before Line 10 was a complete ring.


----------



## :jax:

Same way as today, by bus. Beijing might (or might no longer) manage if the metro system shut down, but it depends on a massive fleet of busses bringing people to where they need to go.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...etro-traction-equipment-contract-awarded.html
> 
> *Beijing metro traction equipment contract awarded*
> 25 Nov 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CHINA: Alstom and its local joint venture Shanghai Alstom Transport Electrical Equipment Co have won a €27m contract to supply traction equipment for 160 metro cars for Phase 3 of Beijing metro Line 6.
> 
> The rolling stock is being supplied by CRRC’s Changchun division and is expected to enter service by the end of 2018
> 
> ...


----------



## skyridgeline

doc7austin said:


> One always has to wonder about infrastructure projects in China:
> How did the people travel before the opening of the many subway lines?
> There was a time before Line 10 was a complete ring.


It was less "urbanized".


----------



## hkskyline

5th ring back in the old days was pretty much farmland. People lived in more concentrated cities and there were far fewer migrants than the millions in town today. They got around more or less fine with buses.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/.../beijing-metro-line-16-concession-signed.html
> 
> *Beijing Metro Line 16 concession signed*
> 01 Dec 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CHINA: Beijing Municipal Government and Beijing MTR Corp signed the railway systems, operations and maintenance PPP concession agreement for the future metro Line 16 and joint venture on November 28.
> 
> Beijing MTR Corp is a joint venture of MTR Corp (49%), Beijing Capital Group (49%) and Beijing Infrastructure Investment Corp (2%).
> 
> The Line 16 project has a total capital cost of about 47·4bn yuan, and construction is being undertaken through two major contracts. Part A covers the civil works which are being undertaken by Beijing Infrastructure Investment Corp, while the 15bn yuan Part B contract with Beijing MTR covers electrical and mechanical systems and rolling stock as well as operations and maintenance for 30 years
> 
> ...


----------



## saiho

*Pictures of Line Changping Line Phase 2 testing:*

I am worried for Line 13 and Xi'erqi Station as the opening will definitely bring a flood of people down the Changping Line. In 2011 the Changping Line carried 27 million people annually with trains every 10 mins. In 2014, it carried 57 million people with trains every 6 mins. With the extension the frequency will be further reduced to every 4 mins. I can easily see the line carrying 100 million people per year by 2020.




























Source


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Nice and sleek design. Is this type of trains present on other lines of Beijing subway our throughout the country?


----------



## dimlys1994

OK, here are some more openings happened today in Beijing:
http://news.cntv.cn/2015/12/26/ARTI1451110359412837.shtml

Changping Line, opened on 30th December 2010, was extended north from Nanshao to Changping Xishankou
Eastern part of Line 14 was also extended from Beijing South Railway Station to Jintailu. Opened section has three infill stations (Hongmiao, Pingleyuan and Taoranqiao stations) and yet it is not connected with its Western section. The rest of the line planned to open in 2019
And two infill stations - Andelibeijie station on line 8 and Datunlu East station on Line 15
Congratulations Beijing!:cheers:


----------



## kunming tiger

how long is the system now?


----------



## dimlys1994

kunming tiger said:


> how long is the system now?


554 km


----------



## metro-world

*Beijing Metro length*



dimlys1994 said:


> 554 km


always the same - the Airport rail is not a subway system to be counted to the total net, because it haves no service for the city - only a connection City - Airpot with 1 intermediate station! (and a second one is u.c.) it is just used to push up the total lenght of the net!

so the airport rail have nothing to do in the total counting of the subeay system and by that it is in face 524 km.


----------



## dimlys1994

Updated map on urbanrail.net:
http://www.urbanrail.net/as/cn/beij/beijing.htm


----------



## DvW

Great, finally my university has a metro station now. I still remember when the construction works started, should be somewhere early 2012. Too bad I'm not there anymore though.


----------



## dixiadetie

dimlys1994 said:


> Updated map on urbanrail.net:
> http://www.urbanrail.net/as/cn/beij/beijing.htm


Line 14 should be pink


----------



## Jim856796

About Line 1: There has been some consideration some time ago to introduce seven-car trains to Line 1 in order to solve that line's severe overcapacity problems. The section from Pingguoyuan to Nanlishilu can only be able to accommodate six-car trains. The section from Fuxingmen to Sihui East has platforms long enough to accommodate eight-car trains. It should be noted that extending underground railway stations just to accommodate longer trains can be really expensive.


----------



## :jax:

Not a cheaper solution, but the western end of 1 is less busy, and likely be even less so with western extension of 6. There could have been a short western branch after Fuxingmen terminating in Lize, with connection to 7 and 14. Disadvantage would be less trains towards Pingguoyuan.


----------



## :jax:

Now that 14 has been extended to become a useful line in the south and east, is there any relief to line 10, or is it just as crowded as before?


----------



## saiho

:jax: said:


> Now that 14 has been extended to become a useful line in the south and east, is there any relief to line 10, or is it just as crowded as before?


Ridership of Line 10 is about the same. However ridership of Line 7 shot up and Line 14 East now hovers @ 400,000 riders per workday. Also Line 5 seems have a more balanced ridership now that Lines 14 and 15 are hooked up to it pulling over 1 million riders per workday.


----------



## subbotazh

*Ultra-Fast EV Charging Station Now Up & Running In Beijing*

A new ultra-fast electric vehicle charging station, the largest such station in the world, was recently brought online in Beijing, China.

The new station — the new Xiaoying Public Transit Bus Terminal in Chaoyang district — is home to 25 electric vehicle (EV) chargers operating at 360 kilowatts (kW), and 5 chargers operating at 90 kW. And it is indeed possible for all 30 chargers to operate at once, reportedly. The station covers an area of 26,500 m² — with the structures themselves covering an area of 1,575 m².










http://evobsession.com/ultra-fast-ev-charging-station-now-up-running-in-beijing/


----------



## ode of bund

subbotazh said:


> *Ultra-Fast EV Charging Station Now Up & Running In Beijing*
> 
> A new ultra-fast electric vehicle charging station, the largest such station in the world, was recently brought online in Beijing, China.
> 
> The new station — the new Xiaoying Public Transit Bus Terminal in Chaoyang district — is home to 25 electric vehicle (EV) chargers operating at 360 kilowatts (kW), and 5 chargers operating at 90 kW. And it is indeed possible for all 30 chargers to operate at once, reportedly. The station covers an area of 26,500 m² — with the structures themselves covering an area of 1,575 m².
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://evobsession.com/ultra-fast-ev-charging-station-now-up-running-in-beijing/


Beijing just converted two more diesel bus routes to trolley-buses in December and January, BRT1 and route 6.


----------



## saiho

ode of bund said:


> Beijing just converted two more diesel bus routes to trolley-buses in December and January, BRT1 and route 6.


Plans for any more trolley conversions? I would love to see Chinese cities reintroduce all the trolley buses they removed. It would certainly would help with the localized urban pollution.


----------



## :jax:

To a certain extent. The power plants are within polluting distance of Beijing, but at least they won't pollute inside Beijing, like the diesel buses would.


----------



## saiho

:jax: said:


> To a certain extent. The power plants are within polluting distance of Beijing, but at least they won't pollute inside Beijing, like the diesel buses would.


Hence, why I said localized.


----------



## saiho

In 2015, Beijing subway carried 3.24 billion people with a fleet of 4,946 subway cars. The drop in ridership from last year most likely from the initial shock of the subway fare increase. Buses carried 3.98 billion passengers on a fleet of 24,347 buses most likely the busiest bus network in the world. 

Source


----------



## CNGL

I've seen some planned Beijing metro maps, with line numbers reaching 31! . Some lines and extensions are missing from the Wikipedia map (which only details the plans up to 2021), which I explain below:
Line 8: Has a branch to Nanyuan.
Line 11: East-West line between lines 14 and 10, then jumps North to the natural extension of line 7 to Mentougou district.
Line 18: Express line right in the same path as line 1, with two branches at its Eastern end in Tongzhou.
Line 19: Extends North to Shahe Gaojiayuan (with a branch to Qinghe) and South to Nanyuan. Also has another branch to western Daxing.
Line 20: A line linking the current Shoudu (Capital) Airport with the new one U/C in Daxing via Beijing Railway station.
Line 21: Fangshan-Yizhuang-Tongzhou-Shunyi (former line S6), mostly along 6th Ring Road (G4501). Has a branch to Shoudu Airport.
Line 23: A line running to the southeastern outskirts (Caiyu). What blows my mind, is that they are planning to have its downtown terminus at the CBD APM line, without any transfers to other lines there.
Line 24: Yizhuang line, already built.
Line 25: Both the Fangshan (in service) and the Yanhua-Fangshan (Yanfang, U/C) lines. I'm surprised they are planning to extend the Fangshan line all the way to... Xizhimen!
Line 26: The Mentougou Maglev (former line S1), under construction.
Line 27: Changping line, already built.
Line 28: Yuquan Lu line. It may be a light rail line instead of monorail.
Line 29: A light rail line running through the Southern suburbs from Fengtai to Yizhuang.
Line 30: This light rail line (along line 7 extension) may be the replacement for the Sihuan line, as it would run from Shangezhuang to Yizhuang.
Line 31: The 'North link' light rail, from Yongfeng to Houshayu.

By the way, the Bawangfen-Tongzhou (Batong) and Daxing lines are considered part of lines 1 and 4 respectively.


----------



## saiho

CNGL said:


> Line 21: Fangshan-Yizhuang-Tongzhou-Shunyi (former line S6), mostly along 6th Ring Road (G4501). Has a branch to Shoudu Airport.


I believe this line is now planned to be a intercity line. Most likely using CRH6 rolling stock.


----------



## :jax:

CNGL said:


> Line 21: Fangshan-Yizhuang-Tongzhou-Shunyi (former line S6), mostly along 6th Ring Road (G4501). Has a branch to Shoudu Airport.


S6 and the other commuter rail lines seem back to their old designations, in any case S6/21 are supposedly having a "rethink" given other plans for Jingjinji transport.


----------



## Dr.Dennis.Deng

I don't really get that ... Will the "S" network now absorbed into "normal" subway lines? Or will it still be a separate network run by the Beijing City Rail, like the S2 ... thus would be more like commuter trains?
For example : is the Mentougou line to be considered part of the subway network?


----------



## dixiadetie

*Jianguomen Station of Line 1*

*Photoed by @针妙丸厨*

JianGuoMen ， opened on Sep,28th,1999 , the interchange between line 1 and line 2 
Going through the city center , it always busy . Tubes on the ceiling implies a old atmosphere .









The DKZ4 rolling stock is the oldest train in Beijing subway system , born in 1998 . 31 sets in total , 19 sets made by Changchun Railway Vehicles Company Ltd , 12 sets made by Beijing Subway Rolling Stock Equipment Co. Ltd. . With modernize program and signal replacement , it will be in operation for another 10 years .









SFM04 is the new rolling stock of Line 1 , 39 sets in total , 20 sets made by CSR Sifang Co Ltd. , 19 sets made by Beijing Subway Rolling Stock Equipment Co. Ltd. , in 2006 . As the other trains do , destination of the train is shown on it's head . There is no platform screen doors , so trains often wear adds on its body for the passengers can straightly see the adds .
You can easily notice the mess of lines on the wall , for electronic and signal .









The train is powered by the third rail , 750V . The notch between the track is for someone who fall down the track to prevent hitting by train , lay down !









Staff area , the screen below the clock shows the countdown for departure when the train arrive . Technically the length of platform capable for longer train , but unsafe for evacuation .


















CCTV and speaker . 









Another SFM04 , G462 , "G" means Gucheng Depot (古城车辆段) . “4” means VVVF-train , "62" means the 62nd set of rolling stocks of line 1 .









Anther DKZ4 , "S" means Sihui Depot (四惠车辆段) , “4” means VVVF-train , "15" means the 15th set of rolling stocks of line 1 . The logo "北京" written by MaoZeDong , is on the front of the train , and it every train in Beijing subway system has this logo. 
The driver is on the platform for safety check , he will return to the driver cab when the train ready to go .


----------



## Nexis

Are there any plans to overhaul the interchange station?


----------



## dixiadetie

Nexis said:


> Are there any plans to overhaul the interchange station?


Not yet , but all stations of line 1\2\13 will be equipped with plat form screen doors . It is too dangerous when rush hour , people almost stand at the edge of platrom hno:.


----------



## Svartmetall

^^ This station is my in-laws local station and I used it quite a bit in Beijing. It is DEFINITELY crowded during rush hour and it can feel a bit dangerous without the doors. Glad to hear they'll be equipped with platform screens in the near future.

Here was my walkthrough of the station:


----------



## Sunfuns

Beijing subway seems less modern than the one in Shanghai. In pictures at least as I've not been in either city.


----------



## binhai

That's just because lines 1 & 2 are several decades old, but all the other lines are as modern as any other new Asian metro system.


----------



## :jax:

Compare the time stamps on 

Beijing:










Shanghai:










Guangzhou:


----------



## SametErol

^^

massive change


----------



## Pierre50

Thanks to "Dixiadetie" for very interesting and detailed explanations on train numbering in Beijing subway.
I then understand that each car of a train has its unique number (not visible in the front), then a train has a number in relation to both its allocation depot and line it is allocated.
QUESTION : what happened if train G462 is transferred to Line 2 (if this is of course technically possible), will it be renumbered ?

Other question can you give the type train allocation for each line (ex DKZ4 and SFM04 for Line 1), and explain how to understand these type letters, if any logical.

Regarding comments made by other forumers on cables visible on some pictures, this is in relation with the age of construction of these stations. this is visible in many other subways in the world in many countries.
It is true to say that very modern constructions tend to hide all these technical parts of the systems which nevertheless are necessary.

Thanks also for pictures of these technical details (signalling, counting, hole to protect people in case they fall on tracks, third rail, ...)


----------



## saiho

Conflicting pictures of what the Yanroom Line rolling stock is. 

This is the original rolling stock.









Source

But then this surfaced























































Source


----------



## CNGL

^^ Yanroom? :rofl: I assume it's the Yanfang line, or Yanhua-Fangshan line, or line 25 extension (Line 25 being the Fangshan line). But then, is only the Yanhua branch U/C or is the Zhoukoudian one also U/C?


----------



## saiho

CNGL said:


> ^^ Yanroom? :rofl: I assume it's the Yanfang line, or Yanhua-Fangshan line, or line 25 extension (Line 25 being the Fangshan line). But then, is only the Yanhua branch U/C or is the Zhoukoudian one also U/C?


Yes my mistake on the copy and paste


----------



## dixiadetie

Pierre50 said:


> Thanks to "Dixiadetie" for very interesting and detailed explanations on train numbering in Beijing subway.
> I then understand that each car of a train has its unique number (not visible in the front), then a train has a number in relation to both its allocation depot and line it is allocated.
> QUESTION : what happened if train G462 is transferred to Line 2 (if this is of course technically possible), will it be renumbered ?
> 
> Other question can you give the type train allocation for each line (ex DKZ4 and SFM04 for Line 1), and explain how to understand these type letters, if any logical.
> 
> Regarding comments made by other forumers on cables visible on some pictures, this is in relation with the age of construction of these stations. this is visible in many other subways in the world in many countries.
> It is true to say that very modern constructions tend to hide all these technical parts of the systems which nevertheless are necessary.
> 
> Thanks also for pictures of these technical details (signalling, counting, hole to protect people in case they fall on tracks, third rail, ...)


The train number (of current lines) would not change because it always run on the same line . But I'm not clear whether were the trains before 1990s were changed her belongs . 

That would be great project to list all types of train each line . I will do it some time .


----------



## saiho

Beijing Subway just broke a ridership record on March 25 with 12,098,900 rides. Waiting for Line 6 to hit over 1 million.

Here is the breakdown by line:
Line 1: 1.329 million
Line 2: 1.202 million
Line 4: 1.379 million 
Line 5: 1.142 million
Line 6: 958,000
Line 7: 442,000 
Line 8: 423,000
Line 9: 564,000
Line 10: 1.869 million
Line 13: 832,000
Line 14W: 65,000
Line 14E: 538,000
Line 15: 353,000
Batong Line: 340,000
Changping Line: 238,000
Daxing Line: 371,000
Fangshan Line: 130,000
Airport Line 37,000
Yizhuang line 214,000

Source


----------



## _Night City Dream_

dixiadetie said:


> The train number (of current lines) would not change because it always run on the same line . But I'm not clear whether were the trains before 1990s were changed her belongs .
> 
> That would be great project to list all types of train each line . I will do it some time .


I'm also trying to do that. Would you like to join me?


----------



## saiho

Beijing Subway just broke a ridership record on April 30 with 12,694,300 rides. Waiting for Beijing Subway to post the numbers of the other lines.

Several lines broke ridership records: 
Line 5: 1.162 million
Line 7: 485,200 
Line 9: 637,900
Line 14E: 587,800
Line 15: 432,200

Source


----------



## dixiadetie

*FangShan Line*

*Photoed by @摄影师一文琦*

FangShan Line is a suburban line of Beijing Subway system . \

There are 21 sets of 6-car train running on the route . Numbered from FS001 to FS021 . These fully "Made in China" trains were made by Beijing Subway Rolling Stock Equipment Co. Ltd.









There are enclosures for reducing noise even there less developed area around the elevated route .









Like other former lines in Beijing Subway . The Fangshan Line powered by the third rail .


















The destination of the train was shown on the head of the train .









On the section with enclosure , you can see next station , because the route is so straight . Also you can notice the mountain in the back ground .


















In this pic , the elevated FangShan Line go under Beijing–Guangzhou–Shenzhen–Hong Kong High-Speed Railway









There are many residential developments on going around Beijing , so FangShan Line will be more crowded in the future (even now it's already very crowded).


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Have you got pics of trains on other lines both city downtown and suburban?


----------



## dixiadetie

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Have you got pics of trains on other lines both city downtown and suburban?


I have other pics of other lines from WeiBo . I will send them line by line .


----------



## dixiadetie

*Line 14 , elevated section*

*Photoed by @摄影师一文琦*

Line14 is one of the subway lines operated by MTR


There two kinds of 6A trains in Line 14 .38 of them made by Changchun Railway Vehicles (CNR) , 25 made by CSR Sifang Co Ltd. . 63 sets in total .

They looks very similar , just a little difference of them . Like the two pics below , the left one is made by CNR . And the right one is made by CSR . Can you find the difference of them ?:nuts:


















The one which has a smaller headlight is made by CNR .









Conversely the bigger headlight one is made by CSR . :lol:


















There is flyover for passengers to change the way they ride , also a good place for taking photos .









Line 14 is the first subway line in Beijing using A-type train . It helps a lot for releasing pressures in rush hour .









This is a nice pic for the curve ! And can you find more differences of them ?


----------



## dixiadetie

*Line 7 --JiaoHuaChang Sta.*

Photoed by 摄影师--文琪
Jiao Hua Chang Sta of line 7 is located at the fommer Beijing Jiaohuachang (Coking Plant) complex .










The third rail-powered 8B trains are in operation on line 7 which is the second line that has 8B train (the first one is line 6). These rolling stock on line 7 were made by Beijing Subway Rolling Stock Equipment Co. Ltd. .It was the first time that this company design and produce rolling stock independently for the first time . They've done the good job .









The black squares on the platform are for queuing guidance . Who is going to get on the train should stand on the left or right square . And keep the middle square clear for passengers getting off from the train . In most metro systems in China , you will find the similar way for queue for trains .









The station hall of JiaoHuaChang , very modern , clean , bright , CCTV equipped . There is giant different in decoration style between the old line like line 1 or 2 and line 7 .









The depot of line 7 --- JiaoHuaCang Depot is underground. So can image how large of the scale of the construction program it was . The background of the pic is some factory building of Beijing Jiaohuachang (Coking Plant) complex , discarded . Maybe it will be redeveloped to be a Art Zone like 798


















The departure platform .








The terminal platform . All the passengers must get off the train .








Inside the line 7 rolling stock , it's almost empty because it was not the rush hour and it just leaving the first station in the journey .


----------



## dixiadetie

*DKZ15 Rolling Stock of Beijing Subway Line 10*

*Photoed by @摄影师一文琦*

Beijing Subway Line 10 have the largest number of trains among China Metro system —— 116 sets of DKZ15 !









There are 3 batches of DKZ15 . Can you notice the two with red "北京" on its head on the left and middle ? The W440 and W403 is the 1st batch train , with 2008 Olympic sign on the left side , W401 to W443 . "W" means "WanLiu Depot" , where trains placed after operation .

The "10 082" train is the 2nd batch . With white also larger "北京" on the head and no Olympic sign . 


















These are the 2nd batch of DKZ15 , 10 049 and 10 061 . 41 trains of 2nd batch , from "10 044" to "10 084"


















Then the left one "10 098" in this pic is one of 3rd batch of DKZ15 . With smaller white "北京" , number from "10 085" to "10 116" . Much different from the right "W432" .


















You can easily distinguish the 2nd (left one) and 3rd (10 103 on the right) batch trains by the size of the "北京" .









Maybe the time of the photo taken is not peak hours , so many trains are in depot .


----------



## saiho

Proposed Interchange between Lines 3 and 2 at Dongsishitiao. The old ghost platforms built for Line 3 under the existing Line 2 where designed in the 80s for trains and operation similar to Lines 1 and 2 (6 car type B rolling stock with 3rd rail, no PSDs, etc) In fact the whole interchange station was envisioned to be similar to Jianguomen. The original Line 3 Platforms will be re purposed to a intermediate interchange level between the two lines retaining the original station decor. With a new extremely wide and long Line 3 platform below.

Entrance to abandoned platforms from Line 2 platforms 

地铁二号线东四十条站站台中央，神秘的隐藏关。两侧上锁。唔。 by Giant Panda, on Flickr

Abandoned Platform









Proposed Interchange








Source


----------



## Ashis Mitra

Beijing Metro is quite going satisfactorily, and covers almost the entire Beijing. This is very good that all main streets are now served by subway system, and makes a dense grid.

Massive construction is going. A number of new lines and extensions are under construction. Those are – 

1)	*Line 3* will connect the northeastern and southwestern Beijing in 2021.
2)	*Line 6* will be extended to western Beijing in 2018.
3)	*Line 7* will be extended to southeastern Beijing in 2020.
4)	*Line 8* will be extended to southern Beijing in 2019.
5)	*Line 9* will be extended to central Beijing in 2020.
6)	*Line 11* will serve the western Beijing around 2025.
7)	*Line 12* will connect the northeastern and southeastern Beijing in 2020.
8)	*Line 14*’s southcentral section will be opened in 2019.
9)	*Line 16* will connect the northwestern and southwestern Beijing in 2017.
10)	*Line 17* will connect the northeastern and southeastern Beijing in 2019.
11)	*Line 18* will connect eastern and western Beijing and will run under Line 1 parallel in 2020.
12)	*Line 19* will connect the northcentral and southern Beijing in 2019.
13)	*Line 22* will serve the eastern Beijing in 2021.

Around 2025, Beijing Metro network will be more than 1000Km, long, and will be the largest subway system in the world.


----------



## saiho

Speaking of Line 16 here is the rolling stock for it unveiled a week ago type A 8 cars.










Source


----------



## Ashis Mitra

great colour


----------



## dixiadetie

*ChangPing Line*

Photoed by @摄影师一文琦

 ChangPing Line is located in the northwest of Beijing, linking Beijing and ChangPing . Surrounding by residential area , it's one of the most crowded subway line in Beijing .
You can know how hard it is to squeeze
your body into a fully crowded train in this report made by CCTV in Chinese .





Anyway , the landscape of ChangPing Line is pretty good . 


















All elevated stations of ChangPing Line have the similar design , in Six prism
. 


















The 6B trains of ChangPing Line are powered by the third rail ,like other lines except line 6/14 .
By the way, all the new lines will equipped with catenary powered 8A trains ,except Yanfang Line . 


















The surrounding area of the station seems empty right now , but many development programs are on going . The ChangPing line will be more crowded in the future .


----------



## dimlys1994

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...o-installs-ultracapacitor-energy-storage.html
> 
> *Beijing metro installs ultracapacitor energy storage*
> 27 Jul 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CHINA: Maxwell Technologies announced on July 27 that it had installed wayside energy storage ultracapacitors on the Beijing metro.
> 
> The 48 V ultracapacitor modules have been installed in two sets of energy storage devices in use on the 26·6 km Line 8. These store energy recovered from regenerative braking of the CSR Sifang rolling stock
> 
> ...


----------



## skyridgeline

*Beijing S1 Maglev Train*

It's expected to be in service by the end of 2017 ( http://www.bbaqw.com/wz/24823.htm ).

http://www.bbaqw.com/wz/24823.htm











The driver/passenger cabin is made of fibre-reinforced plastic (FRP) and composite foam materials ( just like the Changsha ones, see http://www.tschina.com/news/4_310 ). 

http://www.maglev.cn/


----------



## g1asscei1ing

*Can China's Futuristic 'Straddling Bus' Finally Become a Reality?*

I can't post links yet, but I wonder what people think about China's raised bus that allows traffic to pass immediately below it. Looks like it is about to get live testing shortly.:banana:


----------



## dimlys1994

g1asscei1ing said:


> I can't post links yet, but I wonder what people think about China's raised bus that allows traffic to pass immediately below it. Looks like it is about to get live testing shortly.:banana:


There's more discussion there:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1689529&page=34


----------



## subbotazh

*Beijing BRT 1R*


Beijing BRT 1R by Fwei Liu, on Flickr


Beijing BRT 1R by Fwei Liu, on Flickr


Beijing BRT 1R by Fwei Liu, on Flickr


Beijing BRT 1R by Fwei Liu, on Flickr


----------



## skyridgeline




----------



## Svartmetall

dixiadetie said:


> Photoed by @摄影师一文琦
> 
> ChangPing Line is located in the northwest of Beijing, linking Beijing and ChangPing . Surrounding by residential area , it's one of the most crowded subway line in Beijing .
> You can know how hard it is to squeeze
> your body into a fully crowded train in this report made by CCTV in Chinese .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway , the landscape of ChangPing Line is pretty good .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All elevated stations of ChangPing Line have the similar design , in Six prism
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 6B trains of ChangPing Line are powered by the third rail ,like other lines except line 6/14 .
> By the way, all the new lines will equipped with catenary powered 8A trains ,except Yanfang Line .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The surrounding area of the station seems empty right now , but many development programs are on going . The ChangPing line will be more crowded in the future .


I went on the changping line when Ai was there 1.5 years ago. The development at science park to get to the Aeon mall was very.... unfriendly to peds. Do you know if that has changed at all?


----------



## dimlys1994

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...iew/beijing-welcomes-first-line-16-train.html
> 
> *Beijing welcomes first Line 16 train*
> 26 Aug 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CHINA: A ceremony in Beijing on August 22 unveiled the first Line 16 metro train. According to the State Council, the eight-car trainset has the largest capacity of any rolling stock on the metro.
> 
> Test running on the northern section of Line 16, between Beianhe and Xiyuan, is to start later this year, with passenger services due to begin next year. Initial ridership is forecast at 80 000 passenger-journeys per day. Once the full north-south line is operational, it will run for 50 km between Beianhe and Wanping Town, serving 29 stations
> 
> ...


----------



## dimlys1994

Construction began on new tramway line in Shunyi District:
http://www.bjsubway.com/news/qyxw/yyzd/2017-07-14/128602.html


----------



## General Huo

dimlys1994 said:


> Construction began on new tramway line in Shunyi District:
> http://www.bjsubway.com/news/qyxw/yyzd/2017-07-14/128602.html


----------



## CNGL

dimlys1994 said:


> Construction began on new tramway line in Shunyi District:
> http://www.bjsubway.com/news/qyxw/yyzd/2017-07-14/128602.html


Wow, I didn't knew about this tram line! I only knew the Xijiao (Western suburban) line, as well as plans for several tram lines in Yizhuang and in the part of Fengtai that is on the right (West) bank of Yongding river.


----------



## Ashis Mitra

Beijing metro is the one of the best and strong metro network in Asia, which has crisscrossed not only the entire city are, but also connected the satellite townships. It currently has 13 lines— Line *1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 13, 14, 15 & 16.* A dense network in core city area, and also a good extension towards outer area, made it a very good transportation. The network is mostly underground. All lines are connected with each others, which strengthens the entire network. It is a very good example of a strong metro network. For this reason, most people of the city uses metro, because it reaches every area of the city and suburb, so don’t they need private car. Although the population pressure is high and so at least three more metro lines are immediately needed.

The most absurd and meaningless thing is the so called ‘suburban metro lines’. Those Batong, Changping, Daxing, Fangshan, Yizhuang lines are nothing but actually the extensions of line 1, 13, 4, 9 & 5. Although only Daxing line has direct physical connection with line 4, all other lines mentioned here has just adjacent situation. So they could easily called those numbered lines extensions. Distance between stations of those named lines are almost same like numbered lines, and a very important part are also underground. So *why they should not be called matching with those numbered line mentioned above*? I want to know the opinion of the people of Beijing.

I don’t know why they have two different metro companies for a single city. I think rather than two different operating companies, all these lines should be unified under a single company to operate the entire metro network more smoothly from 1 to 16.

Another peculiarity is that line 6 & 14 use overhead wire, where rest of all lines uses 3rd rail. Why there are two different traction system? 3rd rail has much longevity, and also much aesthetic, takes much less space. Two different electricity system will increase maintenance cost. It is not impossible to convert those two lines to 3rd rail, some countries in the world have already done this like Oslo.


----------



## dimlys1994

More photos of Western Suburban Line:
https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/北京地铁西郊线


----------



## CNGL

Ashis Mitra said:


> The most absurd and meaningless thing is the so called ‘suburban metro lines’. Those Batong, Changping, Daxing, Fangshan, Yizhuang lines are nothing but actually the extensions of line 1, 13, 4, 9 & 5. Although only Daxing line has direct physical connection with line 4, all other lines mentioned here has just adjacent situation. So they could easily called those numbered lines extensions. Distance between stations of those named lines are almost same like numbered lines, and a very important part are also underground. So *why they should not be called matching with those numbered line mentioned above*? I want to know the opinion of the people of Beijing.


Some time ago I found a map which numbered all lines, even those that are named. And only Bawangfen-Tongzhou and Daxing lines were shown as part of lines 1 and 4 respectively, the other suburban had their own numbers: Yizhuang line was line 24, Fangshan was line 25 and Changping was line 27, with the Mentougou maglev taking number 26 (I've also seen it as line S1). This has to do with the possibility of through service, which only possible for the Daxing line/line 4 and Batong line/line 1 pairs. Both Fangshan and Changping lines are planned to extend further into the city, and Yizhuang line ends at a right angle to line 5 (and parallel to line 10).


----------



## saiho

Ashis Mitra said:


> Another peculiarity is that line 6 & 14 use overhead wire, where rest of all lines uses 3rd rail. Why there are two different traction system? 3rd rail has much longevity, and also much aesthetic, takes much less space. Two different electricity system will increase maintenance cost. It is not impossible to convert those two lines to 3rd rail, some countries in the world have already done this like Oslo.


The long standing Chinese policy is to try to have higher voltage/amperage traction systems using overhead wire (exceptions exist). Lines 6, 14 and 16 have larger and longer trains than the other lines. The extra power draw means using the overhead lines. All new subway lines in Beijing will have larger and longer trains hence will use overhead wires.


----------



## Ashis Mitra

dimlys1994 said:


> More photos of Western Suburban Line:
> https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/北京地铁西郊线


The Wikipedia page shows us it will be a tram line, and tram cars are same as Kayseri, Samsun & Athens. So another city is coming to return tram.


----------



## Ashis Mitra

There are many extensions and new lines are planned. I have written a bit detail, please read it careful and answer my questions, also comment about its reality—

1) There will be a new *line 3* which will be the most important line running through city centre. It will run from Caogehuang North to Tiancun, where it will meet with line 6 . It will create an alternative route of line 6 from Pinganli to Tiancun. If anytime an accident or anything could stop the service of line 6 via Baishiqiao South, this line 3 could continue the journey. Beside this, it will create a direct short route of line 10 from Tuanjeihu to Xidiaoyutai. For anytime the encircling of line 10 could temporarily stop, this line 3 could continue the journey. So it will be a very good and important route, and I suggest it should get the second priority. Sadly they have started the construction lately, however, construction will be completed in 2021. 

2) *Line 6* will be extended west from Haidian Wuluju to Jinanqiao. This extension will be very good because it will connect both with line 1 at Pingguoyuan and future line 3 at Tiancun. It will create an alternative route of line 3 from Pinganli to Tiancun. If anytime an accident or anything could stop the service of line 3 via Baiduiji, this line 6 could continue the journey. There will be five new stations—Tiancun, Liaogongjhuang, Xihuangcun, Pingguoyuannanlu and Jinanqiao. Construction will be completed in 2018.

3) *Line 7* will be extended east from Jiaohuachang to Universal Studios. It will connect the future extension of Batong line. There will be nine new stations—Huangchangcun, Dongguejhuang, Heijhuanghu, Wanshengnanjie Xikou, Yunjingdonglu, Xiaomajhuang, Gaoloujin, Shiyuan and Universal Studios. Construction will be completed in 2019, although the progress is much slow now.

4) *Line 8*, currently the 3rd busiest line, will be extended south from National Art Museum to Universal Yinghai. This extension will be very much important because after this extension, it will create a direct short route of both line 2 & line 10 from Beitucheng to Dahongmen via Guloudajie and Qianmen. For anytime the encircling of line 2 or line 10 could temporarily stop, this Line 8 could continue the journey. So it will be a very good and important route, and I suggest it should get the third priority. There will be eleven new stations—Wangfujing North, Tianqiao, Muxiyuanqiao North, Muxiyuanqiao South, Dahongmenqiao, Heyi, Xiwadi, Liuyingmen, Wufutang, Demao and Yinghai. However it has been already belated, and due to this very long extension, construction will be completed in 2019.

5) Recently I heard that *line 8* will be also extended north upto Jhushikou, but I could not found a map of that new line. Please write some detail about this line with a map. When this northern extension will be opened?

6) *Line 9*, currently the busiest line, will be extended central from National Library to Jimenqiao. It will be the shortest extension of Beijing metro, and will connect with future line 12. There will be two new stations—Jaojunmiao and Jimenqiao. Construction will be completed in 2020. 

7) There will be a new *line 11* will be in western Beijing that would traverse the Beijing Capital Steel complex and intersect with line 1 and line 4. But I could not found a map of that new line. Please write some detail about this line with a map. Construction was set to begin in 2020, which is I think much belated. When it will be opened for public?

8) There will be a new *line 12* which will be also a very important line running through city centre. It will run from Guanghuanglu Xikou, where it will meet with line 3 to Sijiqing. It will create a direct short route of line 10 from Sanyuanqiao to Changchunqiao. For anytime the encircling of line 10 could temporarily stop, this line 12 could continue the journey. So it will be a very good and important route, and I suggest it should get the fourth priority. Sadly they have started the construction lately, however, construction will be completed in 2020.

9) *Line 14* will be completed in 2018. It will create a direct short route of line 10 from Shilihe to Xiju. For anytime the encircling of line 10 could temporarily stop, this Line 14 could continue the journey. So it will be a very good and important route, and I suggest it should get the first priority. There are five new stations remaining—Jingfengmen, Xitiyeing, Caihuying, Lize Business district and Dongguantou. I don’t know Why they still have not completed this line because such isolated metro service is totally absurd, and without completing the connection, they are construction more new lines? The construction of this small extension is also much slow, what is the problem actually?

10) *Line 16*, currently the second busiest line, will be extended south from Xiyuan to Wanpingcheng. In future I bet it will be the busiest line, because it will create a direct short route of line 10 from Suzhoujie to Fengtai Railway Station. For anytime the encircling of line 10 could temporarily stop, this line 16 could continue the journey. It will also create an alternative route of line 4 from Xiyuan to National library. If anytime an accident or anything could stop the service of line 4 via Haidanhuangzhunag, this line 16 could continue the journey. Beside this it will also create an alternative route of line 9 from National library to Fengtainanlu. If anytime an accident or anything could stop the service of line 9 via Beijing West Railway Station, this line 16 could continue the journey. By measuring all these point it is nodoubt that it will be the most important line in future. There will be ten new stations—Wanquanheqiao, Suzhouqiao, Ganjiakou, Honglinananli, Lize Business district, Fengyiqiao South, Fufengqiao, Kandan, Yushuzhuang and Wanpingcheng. Thankfully the construction is in full swing and it will be completed in 2018, even may be this year also.

10) Year by year the tram line is being delayed to open, I mean the Western Suburban Line. It is already four years delayed. _What is the problem about opening this line—please write some details. Will it possible to open this in this year?_


----------



## CNGL

It appears the Xijiao (Western Suburban) line isn't delayed, it just took too long to start construction due to all planning changes. And is opening this year. As for line 14, a conflict with above ground planning around the Lize area delayed part of it, leaving a gap for the time being. Line 11 is planned as a East-West line to the South of line 7, and due to obvious reasons it won't intersect line 1. However, it's planned for the long term. I don't know about any line 8 extension beyond Zhuxinzhuang, that would be news for me.


----------



## tjrgx

*Two subway lines in Beijing to start construction this year*

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-07/27/c_136477607.htm

Two subway lines in Beijing to start construction this year

BEIJING, July 27 (Xinhua) -- Two new subway lines in Beijing are expected to break ground at the end of 2017, authorities said Thursday.

The combined length of the CBD Line and the branch line of Yanfang Line, both still being designed, will be around 12.6 km, according to the Beijing Major Projects Construction Headquarters Office.

The 6.5-km CBD Line will run between Dongdaqiao and Dajiaoting stations, with 8 stations planned. It will mainly serve passengers within the central business district and Beijing East Railway Station. The other line, about 6.1 km long, will have three stations. It will mainly serve passengers near Zhoukoudian Township in southwestern Beijing's Fangshan District.

Three other subway lines in Beijing will start operations within this year.


----------



## saiho

Ashis Mitra said:


> 4) *Line 8*, currently the 3rd busiest line,
> 6) *Line 9*, currently the busiest line,
> 10) *Line 16*, currently the second busiest line,


Where are you getting these ridership stats?

The top 10 lines by most ridership are:

Line 10
Line 4
Line 1
Line 2
Line 5
Line 6
Line 13 
Line 14
Line 9
Line 7


----------



## Dr.Dennis.Deng

tjrgx said:


> http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-07/27/c_136477607.htm
> 
> Two subway lines in Beijing to start construction this year
> 
> BEIJING, July 27 (Xinhua) -- Two new subway lines in Beijing are expected to break ground at the end of 2017, authorities said Thursday.
> 
> The combined length of the CBD Line and the branch line of Yanfang Line, both still being designed, will be around 12.6 km, according to the Beijing Major Projects Construction Headquarters Office.
> 
> The 6.5-km CBD Line will run between Dongdaqiao and Dajiaoting stations, with 8 stations planned. It will mainly serve passengers within the central business district and Beijing East Railway Station. The other line, about 6.1 km long, will have three stations. It will mainly serve passengers near Zhoukoudian Township in southwestern Beijing's Fangshan District.
> 
> Three other subway lines in Beijing will start operations within this year.



Is the CBD line still designed as APM or will it be a "real" metro?
I remember, I had seen an article, which said they had changed design to increase capacity ...


----------



## saiho

Dr.Dennis.Deng said:


> Is the CBD line still designed as APM or will it be a "real" metro?
> I remember, I had seen an article, which said they had changed design to increase capacity ...


They are possibly up sizing the Line to use 6 car Linear motor trains. My guess is using Bombardier ART like the the Beijing Airport Express or Guangzhou's Kawasaki Heavy Industries derived L Type trains.

http://www.bjd.com.cn/jx/toutiao/201704/27/t20170427_11058111.html


----------



## Ashis Mitra

saiho said:


> Where are you getting these ridership stats?
> 
> The top 10 lines by most ridership are:
> 
> Line 10
> Line 4
> Line 1
> Line 2
> Line 5
> Line 6
> Line 13
> Line 14
> Line 9
> Line 7


Thanks, one of my friend told such, may be he is wrong. Here you mean line 10 is busiest?


----------



## saiho

Yes Line 10 is the busiest.


----------



## Jim856796

I also heard about a proposal to combine the Batong Line with Line 1 for through operations in the future, meaning eliminating the transfers at the Sihui and Sihui East stations. The lines' signal systems are completely different, however, so any attempt to combine these lines will require some substantial modification. According to Qianlong.com, preliminary design and feasibility studies are underway to allow for such operations.


----------



## zidar fr

Updated map of Beijing metro:

- Wider layout
- Added all lines under construction
- Added all ring roads to better reflect the urban landscape











Full resolution image:
http://www.inat.fr/metro/beijing/


----------



## tjrgx

*Beijing's 1st maglev line goes into trial run*

http://chinaplus.cri.cn/photo/china/18/20170807/14246.html

Beijing's first maglev train line has begun trial operations on August 5, 2017. The first phase of the S1 line is 10 kilometers long and travels through the western parts of Beijing, connecting Pingguoyuan Station in Shijingshan District with Shichang Station in Mentougou District.


----------



## FM 2258

^^

Interesting. For some reason I thought on only Changsha was going to have a low speed maglev. What's the strategy for these low speed maglev lines. I was thinking they should have high speed maglev from the city center to the airports yet in another post it was noted that high speed maglev isn't worth the cost?


----------



## hkskyline

Lonely metro station by Rajitha Ranasinghe, on Flickr


----------



## lkstrknb

New video showing the Beijing S1 Line testing.


----------



## saiho

Tongzhou Station new platform construction progress in preparation for the Subcity Center Commuter Line

By marmoset of Ditiezu


----------



## Woonsocket54

*Yanfang Line (expected to open this month)*



























































































Source: http://idyllicmetropolis.blogspot.com/2017/12/weekly-report-7.html


----------



## class387

Woonsocket54 said:


> Source: http://idyllicmetropolis.blogspot.com/2017/12/weekly-report-7.html


Do you know when the three new lines in Beijing are due to enter service? I am in Beijing this month, but only until the 30th December.


----------



## Woonsocket54

Muxiyuanqiao North Station (southern extension of Line 8)









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Exit_D_of_Muxiyuanqiaobei_Station_(20171207150427).jpg

Xibeiwang Station (line 16)









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Platform_of_Xibeiwang_Station_(20171207065745).jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Exit_B_of_Xibeiwang_Station_(20171207065333).jpg


----------



## saiho

CRH6 commuter trains for the Subcity Center commuter service. 

posted by fbosy of Ditiezu


----------



## Falubaz

Is the Yanfang line going to be fully overground?


----------



## saiho

Progress on the Beijing subcity center commuter line Tongzhou Station.

By fbosy of Ditiezu


----------



## Woonsocket54

saiho said:


> Progress on the Beijing subcity center commuter line Tongzhou Station.


A google search reveals that the only mentions of subcity center commuter line are on this thread.

Also, here is Pingleyuan Station (future infill station on Line 14):









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Exit_B_lift_of_Pingleyuan_Station_(20171218160013).jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Exit_B_of_Pingleyuan_Station_(20171218155851).jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Exit_C_of_Pingleyuan_Station_(20171218160248).jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Exit_D_of_Pingleyuan_Station_(20171218160517).jpg


----------



## saiho

Woonsocket54 said:


> A google search reveals that the only mentions of subcity center commuter line are on this thread.


Then search 副中心线. There is no English name or number for the line.


----------



## Woonsocket54

saiho said:


> Then search this 副中心线. There is no English name or number for the line.


OK, thanks. The newly created Wikipedia page calls this by the unofficial title "Sub-administrative Center Line"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-administrative_Center_Line,_BCR


----------



## saiho

New lines showing up on TVMs in Beijing

By fzh010818 of Ditiezu


----------



## Woonsocket54

Is the TVM displaying unopened infill stations as if they are plausible destinations?


Line 6 - Tongyunmen
Line 7 - Fatou, Shuangjing
Line 14 - Taoranqiao, Pingleyuan, Gaojiayuan

Also, is Yizhuang Railway Station on the Yizhuang Line displayed on the TVM? Wasn't aware of that one opening.


----------



## Woonsocket54

*opening soon - Western Suburban Line (Xijiao Line)*

*Fragrant Hills Station*









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fragrant_Hills_Station_(20171221122736).jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Entrance_of_Fragrant_Hills_Station_(20171221122659).jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fragrant_Hills_Station_(20171221122708).jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...rant_Hills_Station,_west_(20171221123337).jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...f_Fragrant_Hills_Station_(20171221122846).jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...rant_Hills_Station,_east_(20171221123358).jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:East_exit_of_Fragrant_Hills_Station_(20171221123414).jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Platform_of_Fragrant_Hills_Station_(20171221123108).jpg

*Botanical Garden Station*









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...Botanical_Garden_Station_(20171221124552).jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...Botanical_Garden_Station_(20171221124751).jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...Botanical_Garden_Station_(20171221124935).jpg

*Wan'an Station*









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wan'an_Station_(20171221125721).jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wan'an_Station_(20171221125957).jpg


----------



## Woonsocket54

Construction at Dongsi Shitiao Station on line 3 (connection to line 2)









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...3_Dongsi_Shitiao_Station_(20171207123519).jpg

Construction at Kandan Station on line 16










https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Construction_site_of_Kandan_Station_(20171226165650).jpg

S1 Jin'anqiao Station (may open this year)










https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jin'anqiao_Station_(20171225142812).jpg










https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jin'anqiao_Station_(20171225142738).jpg

Yanfang Line near Yancun Station










https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:YF007_approaching_Yancun_(20171224155842).jpg

Yanfang Line - Yanshan Station










https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Yanshan_Station_(20171224171258).jpg










https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Yanshan_Station_(20171224170756).jpg

Yanfang Line - Fangshan Chengguan Station










https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...ngshan_Chengguan_Station_(20171224164259).jpg










https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...ngshan_Chengguan_Station_(20171224164257).jpg

Yanfang Line - Dashihe East Station (apparently the highest metro station in Beijing)










https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:North_façade_of_Dashihe_East_Station_(20171224161845).jpg










https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:North_façade_of_Dashihe_East_Station_(20171224161634).jpg

Yanfang Line - Raolefu Station










https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:North_façade_of_Raolefu_Station_(20171224162645).jpg










https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:North_façade_of_Raolefu_Station_(20171224162638).jpg

Yanfang Line - Xingcheng Station










https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Xingcheng_Station_(20171224160845).jpg










https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Xingcheng_Station_(20171224160642).jpg










https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sign_of_Xingcheng_Station_(20171224160954).jpg

Yanfang Line - Yancun Station










https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Yancun_Station_(20171224155859).jpg


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## Woonsocket54

*odds and ends*

Line 14 - Pingleyuan Station (infill station) opens 2017.12.30 (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pingleyuan_Station)

Line 16 - Nongdananlu Station (infill station) opens 2017.12.30 (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nongdananlu_Station)

Huairou–Miyun Line opens 2017.12.31 (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huairou–Miyun_Line,_BCR)

Sub-administrative Center Line opens 2017.12.31 (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-administrative_Center_Line,_BCR)

rolling stock:









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:CRH6A-0437_at_Shoupakou_(20171227162823).jpg


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## CNGL

The Huairou-Miyun line is consistent with line S5 of Beijing Suburban Railway (which until now only had the Yanqing line, or line S2, in operation). The Fuzhongxin line (as there is no official English translation I just use the original name in pinyin) is also being called line S1, so there will be two lines S1! However the other line S1, the Mentougou maglev, is also known as line 26, and I go with that number, much like I refer to the Yizhuang, Fangshan (including the Yanshan-Fangshan line) and Changping lines as lines 24, 25 and 27 respectively (I consider Bawangfen-Tongzhou and Daxing lines to be part of lines 1 and 4 respectively).


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## CNGL

Beijing is opening up to three new lines: A driverless line, a maglev line, and a tram line. The three lines:

Yanshan-Fangshan (Yanfang line), Yancun Dong to Yanshan, 13.4 km, 9 stations. Also known as line 25 West, it is the first driverless line in Beijing. In the future it will include a branch to Zhoukoudian. The Fangshan line is extended one station and 2.3 km from Suzhuang to Yancun Dong, to 25.4 km and 12 stations.
Line S1, Jin'anqiao to Shichang, 8.3 km, 7 stations. Also know as the Mentougou maglev and line 26, it should not be confused with the Fuzhongxin commuter rail line (also designated line S1). For now isolated from the rest of the network, the final 1.6 km to Pingguoyuan will open sometime in 2018. This is the thrid maglev line to open in China after the Shanghai and Changsha lines.
Xijiao (or Western suburban) line, Bagou to Xiangshan, 8.6 km, 6 stops. The long awaited Western suburban line, previously planned as a full metro line, has been built as a tram line (as it has at-grade crossings), and thus it doesn't count to the metro total. This marks the return of tram service to Beijing after around 60 years (I'm not counting that thing in Qianmen).

In addition, two infill stations are added: Pingleyuan on line 14 East between Beigongda Ximen and Jiulongshan, and Nongda Nanlu on line 16 between Malianwa and Xiyuan.

This brings Beijing metro subway (heck, this is the only metro system in China not called "metro" in English) to 598 km. This would be the world's longest... if it weren't for Shanghai opening 66 km today too (putting that at 654 km), so it remains behind. It is, however, almost 200 km longer than the 3rd longest network (London).


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## Munwon

CNGL said:


> Beijing is opening up to three new lines: A driverless line, a maglev line, and a tram line. The three lines:
> 
> Yanshan-Fangshan (Yanfang line), Yancun Dong to Yanshan, 13.4 km, 9 stations. Also known as line 25 West, it is the first driverless line in Beijing. In the future it will include a branch to Zhoukoudian. The Fangshan line is extended one station and 2.3 km from Suzhuang to Yancun Dong, to 25.4 km and 12 stations.
> Line S1, Jin'anqiao to Shichang, 8.3 km, 7 stations. Also know as the Mentougou maglev and line 26, it should not be confused with the Fuzhongxin commuter rail line (also designated line S1). For now isolated from the rest of the network, the final 1.6 km to Pingguoyuan will open sometime in 2018. This is the thrid maglev line to open in China after the Shanghai and Changsha lines.
> Xijiao (or Western suburban) line, Bagou to Xiangshan, 8.6 km, 6 stops. The long awaited Western suburban line, previously planned as a full metro line, has been built as a tram line (as it has at-grade crossings), and thus it doesn't count to the metro total. This marks the return of tram service to Beijing after around 60 years (I'm not counting that thing in Qianmen).
> 
> In addition, two infill stations are added: Pingleyuan on line 14 East between Beigongda Ximen and Jiulongshan, and Nongda Nanlu on line 16 between Malianwa and Xiyuan.
> 
> This brings Beijing metro subway (heck, this is the only metro system in China not called "metro" in English) to 598 km. This would be the world's longest... if it weren't for Shanghai opening 66 km today too (putting that at 654 km), so it remains behind. It is, however, almost 200 km longer than the 3rd longest network (London).


Such an amazing fact. Think of all the steel and concrete it takes to build. The growth and urbanization in China is truly mindblowing!


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## hkskyline

Feb 28, 2018
*China approves $5.3 billion plans for Beijing-Xiongan rail link*
_Excerpt_

SHANGHAI (Reuters) - China has approved plans to build a rail link connecting the capital Beijing with the new economic zone of Xiongan in Hebei province, with total investment expected to reach 33.53 billion yuan ($5.3 billion), the country’s top planning body said on Thursday.

The National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC) said the rail project is designed to carry 50 million passengers a year and will involve the construction of five new stations and the laying of 92.4 kilometers (57 miles) of new track.

It will also link up to Beijing’s planned new international airport in the southern suburb of Daxing.

In a separate notice on Thursday, the Hebei provincial government said the connection from Beijing to the new airport is expected to go into operation by September 2019, and would be fully connected to the new station in Xiongan by the end of 2020.

Half of the funding for the project will be provided by the Beijing and Hebei governments as well as the state-run China Railway Corporation, the NDRC said.

The Xiongan New Area was launched in April last year by President Xi Jinping and is part of a state-driven campaign to integrate the economy of the Beijing-Tianjin-Hebei region and ease congestion and pollution pressures in the Chinese capital.


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## Woonsocket54

Framework of L8 Liuyingmen Station is complete; interior work is now in progress.

http://www.chinametro.net/index.php?m=newscon&id=410&aid=43292

Liuyingmen Station render:










L6 Jin'anqiao Station construction site:









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...of_L6_Jin'anqiao_Station_(20180315084733).jpg


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## Woonsocket54

Beijing commuter rail (S2)









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:[email protected]_(20180318083634).jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NDJ3_0004_at_Huangtudian-Passazhirskiy_(20180318120744).jpg


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## Falubaz

Hey guys i have a question about those comuter lines in China. Since to get on the train, i mean regular one - long distance train, it is a real hassle, especially in big stations. It can sometimes take to one hour to get throughh all the checks and queues. I took train several times but it was always only the intercity one. So the question is: how does it work for those comuter lines. Is it made a bit simpler? Kind of metros? Buy ticket at the machine - go through the turnstiles and off i go?


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## saiho

Based on my experience with the regional C trains Guangshen Railway and Chengdu-Dujiangyan Railway. Getting on the train is the same as taking a long distance train.


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## Kintoy

I took the Shanghai-Beijing HST last week


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## Woonsocket54

Line 3 - Dongbazhongjie Station construction









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...f_Dongbazhongjie_Station_(20180407125845).jpg

Line 19 construction









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...f_Line_19_at_Taipingqiao_(20180408175619).jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...f_Line_19_at_Taipingqiao_(20180408175645).jpg


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## Woonsocket54

Construction site of Beijing-Xiong'an Intercity Railway at Lixian









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...ercity_Railway_at_Lixian_(20180504125332).jpg


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## saiho

Progress on the New Airport Line

Posted by marmoset of Ditiezu


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## saiho

New Airport Line train based on the CRH6 platform

post by marmoset of Ditiezu


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## Ashis Mitra

Thankfully Beijing has done the correction almost after 50 years by returning tram in city. The new tram is completely different than old tram. The Old tram was double coach, high floor, , noisy, and slow, and but served many central parts of city. The new tram is quintuple coaches, low floor, air-conditioned, panto-graph, calm and fast, but serves only the eastern part of the city.

If anybody compares the first generation and second generation tramway systems in Samarkand, it is much different. The old tram had 8 routes, and served almost 40 Kilometers, but the new tram has only 1 route, and serves only 9 Kilometers.

The reason for closure of old system was a mix of global anti-tram craze, faster and cheaper motor-bus service etc. During the Chinese Civil War, tram service diminished, and it was also an important reason. Motor-bus served faster, frequent, undisturbed, smooth service, when trams were slower, disturbed by private cars and buses, so became got stuck in streets by traffic jams. Trams by then were considered slow and noisy compared to other motor vehicles and was more expensive and cumbersome to expand service into newly developed areas of the city because they required the laying of track. People then started to travel trolley-bus & motor-bus than tram, so losses started, and between 5 years, it was much loss making. 

I will give a special thanks to Beijing because they have re-introduced the tram system as a traditional type, i.e. - steel wheel cars on iron tracks, with panto-graph drawn current from overhead wires, like Changchun, Dalian, Hong-kong (although here used trolley-pole), Qingdao & Suzhou.


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## Ashis Mitra

*FOOLISH AUTHORITY OF BEIJING *

Beijing’s old tram network was closed in May 6, 1966 for some blunt reasons – 

1)	The advent of buses and large scale competition meant that buses often ran the same routes as the trams and would jump in front in order to "grab" customers.

Buses are still present in Beijing, even much more than before. Aren’t they competing with tram now? If now tram can attract more people than bus, I think if Beijing Transport Authority should be patient, trams would sure survived, even defeat bus. Actually they started following other cities for withdrawing tram during seventies.

2) While buses were able to move into Beijing’s expanding hinterland quicker and at less cost that the trams.

Current tram network is being to long distances like Fragant Hill, and the infrastructure is more expensive like bus (includes masts, wires, stops etc.) But they are very popular for commuters than bus. If now they can re-make that costly infrastructure, why not past? Previous network was much ordinary than present. Actually they were lobbying the automobile industry, and the industry started marketing automobiles, like many cities around the world.

3) The belief that trams were outdated and old technology meanwhile,

If tram is really outdated, why the transport authority returned it in Beijing? It clearly shows that outdated technology idea was completely fake.

4) There was a belief that buses were cheaper to run than trams.

Although initial construction cost of tramway network is higher, but it is profitable for long term, because buses runs on diesel, which is being costly month by month over the world, and also decreasing from nature’s storage. Diesel can’t be made artificially, but electricity can make from various sources, like air, water, tide etc, so it is unlimited, and it is also pollution free. 

5) The system was in a poor state of repair.

Many cities around the world has maintained tram, by investing seriously on track & rolling stocks. Even I live in Kolkata, where the electric tram system is almost 23 years old than Beijing, has still a good tram network. When Beijing closed their tram in 1966, Kolkata tram was still very strong with a good network, it survived, and two new routes were introduced later. So “impossible repairing” is just another lie.

*Beijing’s previous tram survived from 1924 to 1966 and closed for those fake reasons. Tram reopened in 2017. So are we sure that around 2059, Beijing will not again close its tram for some updated closure reasons?*


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## Ashis Mitra

I heard the first generation tram network served some places which is now served by metro.

E.g. - 1) A dozen street cars paraded along the 9-km initial tram route from Qianmen to Xizhimen on the opening of the tram service. 

2)	In July 1930, the 6th Route, began service from Chongwenmen to East Zhushikou.

3)	On January 1, 1938, the 6th Route Branch Line began operating on the newly built tracks between Tianqiao and Yongdingmen. 

4)	The tramline's ring route was from Pinganli through Xisi, Xidan, Tiananmen, Dongdan and Dongsi .

5)	An eighth route from Hongqiao to Tianqiao was added in 1955. 

Could anyone draw a rough map following the google map and current metro map to easily understand tose former tram routes with English letter?

I heart two new second generation tram routes are under construction. A tram line is expected to start construction in Yizhuang by the end of 2017. A second tram line is under construction in Shunyi. Are those constructions going on? Please post some photos and a map of those new routes, comparing with metro network.


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## saiho

^^Here are some Xijiao LRT pictures posted by 逢逢. Also can you please stop posting these "FOOLISH AUTHORITY of XXX City" they add nothing to the conversation. In addition, the points being made are completely devoid of all nuance of why trams disappeared in many cities.


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## Ashis Mitra

*I always say them foolish, because they done some foolish works.*

I got a map of old tram network, but it is in Chinese, which I can't read, or can't translate, due to it is an image, not text. Could anyone give me an English version of this map?


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## Ashis Mitra

Beijing metro is one of the best metro network of the world. After some initial slow construction, later it got very fast pace, probably due to 2008 Olympic. But recently I'm observing that the construction speed is slower then some years before. Now I am explaining this - 

Line *6* western extension, line *8* southern extension and line *16* southern extension – all was early planned to open in 2017, but the deadline was missed, now they rescheduled to complete it in 2018. My question is , why they are getting delayed? Following the trend, I think they will miss again the deadline, and will not be opened before 2019. What are the problems for the late constructions? Please write some details.


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## saiho

Line 8 Phase III and IV interchange diagrams.

Posted of 北落鹰

Dahongmen interchange between Lines 8 and 10.
 

Zhushikou interchange between Lines 7 and 8.
 

Yongdingmenwai interchange between Lines 8 and 14.


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## Ashis Mitra

A question knocks me some days. We know that the former old tram network was closed in 1966, and the main cause they said that trams were creating traffic jams, slowing other motor vehicles, and creating city centre congestion. If the same result will happen, then what was the blame of the old network, and why they has returned tram again ? I’m getting confused. Please discuss something about this.


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## saiho

The tram returned but in suburban areas that was farmland in the 1960s. The old areas that had tram service will never have tram service reintroduced as they are already or will to be well served by subways and trolleybuses.


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## :jax:

Eventually, presumably, Beijing will follow the same trends as other parts of the world and become less car-centric. Trams aren't causing congestion, cars are. 

That said, old-style trams like in Hong Kong are nice for tourism, but mostly useless for public transport. If you want a tram network, you need right of way, and not mixed in the traffic like buses are. The consequence is that the other traffic would slow the trams down, like it slows down buses.


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## CNGL

Woonsocket54 said:


> Fatou station (Line 7)
> Yizhuang Railway Station station (Yizhuang line)
> National Art Miseum station (Line 8)
> Beiyunhe East station (Line 6)
> 
> source: http://bjwb.bjd.com.cn/html/2018-12/19/content_529427.htm
> 
> This is in addition to the southern extension of Line 8 (for now will not be connected to the rest of Line 8) and the western extension of Line 6.


Two of them are one station extensions: Nanluoguxiang to Zhongguo Meishuguan on line 8 and Ciqu to Yizhuang Huochezhan on line 24 (i.e. Yizhuang line). The later has sit unopened for 8 years, presumably because the Yizhuang railway station had not seen any train stopping there yet.


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## hkskyline

China_2018_Beijing_LiangMaHe_XS_181213_0542 + (Copy) by michel_china, on Flickr


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## CNGL

And the last stop in the year end metro opening compilation is Beijing. Two major expansions and another minor (one-station) two are opening on December 30. Line 6 is being extended from Haidian Wuluju to Jin'anqiao, thus adding 10.3 km and 5 stations (Pingguoyuan, and thus the connection to line 1, being left unopened for now) for a total of 53.1 km and 32 stations (Beiyunhe Dong at the Eastern section of the line is also opening on December 30), and finally connecting line 26 (S1) to the rest of the network. A new section of line 8 is also opening, running from Zhushikou to Yinghai over 16.4 km with 12 stations (Dahongmen, and thus the connection to line 10, being left unoped for now). This section will be isolated from the rest of line 8 until at least 2021. That section is getting a one-station extension from Nanluoguxiang to Zhongguo Meishuguan (National Art Museum), adding 1.5 km and thus making the older section of line 8 28.3 km long with 19 stations. The Yizhuang line is also getting a one-station extension from Ciqu to Yizhuang Huochezhan. This 1.3 km section had been completed since the line opened in 2010 but has not entered operation until now due to the Yizhuang railway station not having any scheduled trains and having little else in the surroundings (the railway station still doesn't have any scheduled trains but now there is something else). Yizhuang line (or line 24 in the numerical system) is extended to 24.6 km with 14 stations. With all these extensions the Beijing subway is growing to 629 km, still over 50 km behind the World leader Shanghai. In addition, Fatou station on line 7 is also opening on December 30.


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## saiho

Tiancun Station on Line 6 posted by 逢逢


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## saiho

Line 6 murals posted by 下一站永丰 and 逢逢


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## NCT

saiho said:


> Tiancun Station on Line 6 posted by 逢逢


For such a height difference I think the escalator : stairs ratio is a bit stingy.


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## saiho

Yizhuang tram

Posted by haorunzhi


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## saiho

New Airport Line rolling stock, based of the CRH6 platform. Posted by Luoluoci


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## hkskyline

January 16, 2019 
*Beijing subways to launch one-day pass*
China Daily _Excerpt_

The planned one-day pass for the Beijing subway system will boost tourism and be more attractive for international travelers, an expert said.

Beijing subway will soon offer passengers more ticket options, with the one-day pass the first to be launched, the municipal commission of transportation said on Sunday.

The capital now uses a metered fare system for subways. Passengers can buy single-ride tickets or use a rechargeable card.

The one-day pass, valid for 24 hours of unlimited metro travel, will be convenient for visitors to Beijing and help boost tourism, the commission said.

He Mang, assistant dean of the School of Tourism Management at Sun Yat-sen University, said cities like Shanghai, Guangzhou and Wuhan already have one-day or three-day passes, which allow tourists to save time and money. Beijing, as a global metropolis, needs to catch up to be more attractive and more influential.

"Inbound tourism is an important aspect of promoting high-quality development of tourism in Beijing. But the number of trips made by foreign tourists and tourism revenue in Beijing has continuously declined from 2012 to 2017. The one-day pass shows Beijing's effort to stay abreast of international tourism industry trends and a better understanding of the preferences of overseas tourists," he said.

Rong Jun, spokesman for the commission, said the commission would analyze the commuter data during the holiday and figure out the needs of short-term visitors to Beijing before setting the ticket price.

"There should be a balance in the price of the one-day pass. It should be cheaper than buying single tickets. But if it's too cheap, it will divert the daily commuters and put more pressure on the subway," Rong said.

The pass will be available in paper or QR code format, according to the commission.


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## saiho

Airport Line trains in depot.

Posted by marmoset


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## Ghostpoet

saiho said:


> Airport Line trains in depot.



Thank you for the photos! Those trains will be in use on the New airpot line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Airport_line)? Which factory are producing the trains, how many are ordered and what are the basic technical info?


Thank you!


Ghostpoet


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## treekangaroo

..


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## General Huo

Renderings of Beijing Daxing Airport Line


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## cormiermax

Those pillars look vaguely/strangely Islamic?


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## General Huo

No. They are flowers.



cormiermax said:


> Those pillars look vaguely/strangely Islamic?


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## cormiermax

General Huo said:


> No. They are flowers.


Hideous either way, like many recent stations in Beijing. They should really give these projects to designers outside of the Shijiyuan...


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## saiho

Airport Line trains

Posted by 林宝弘


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## saiho

Line 7 East extension by 84003673


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## Scion

Very futuristic rolling stock for the Yanfang line extension


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## cormiermax

The exterior looks fine, but the interior looks like an amusement park ride or a prop from a low-budget sci-fi film. Was any attention paid to passenger comfort? Its strange how far Beijing has begun to lag behind Shanghai in design as of late. Government designers also need to drop this bizarre, crass "futuristic" aesthetic they like to plaster onto everything, as it looks the opposite of what was intended!


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## zg5

So if the Airport Express links to Caoqiao on line 10, will that be the only interchange withthe whole network? Not even a transfer with the line 4?


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## CNGL

A few months ago the Southern extension of line 27 (better known as the Changping line) started construction. This will extend the line deep into the city core, ending at Jimenqiao at the also U/C line 12, intersecting line 15 at Liudaokou and entering inside the line 10 loop at Xitucheng.

In other news, with the new Daxing airport expected to be put into operation on September 30, it's also expected the Daxing Airport Express to open that day. It will feature the first station outside Beijing: Daxing Jichang, located in Guangyang district of Baoding, Hebei (the airport itself straddles the Beijing/Hebei border). In accordance with this, the line until now known as "plain" Airport Express has been renamed Shoudu (Capital) Airport Express.


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## saiho

Beijing updated it's digitail map to include the New Airport Line posted by 浔峰岗车辆段


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## General Huo

Daxing Airport Rapid Line

https://news.sina.com.cn/c/2019-09-19/doc-iicezzrq7024020.shtml


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## General Huo

Some older pictures

https://news.sina.com.cn/c/2019-08-29/doc-ihytcern4415993.shtml


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## CNGL

CNGL said:


> In other news, with the new Daxing airport expected to be put into operation on September 30, it's also expected the Daxing Airport Express to open that day. It will feature the first station outside Beijing: Daxing Jichang, located in Guangyang district of Baoding, Hebei (the airport itself straddles the Beijing/Hebei border)


This line is opening on September 26, a few days ahead of the new airport.


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## Woonsocket54

*Daxing Airport subway station*









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...g_Airport_Subway_Station_(20190925173704).jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...g_Airport_Subway_Station_(20190925173651).jpg









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/..._Airport_Railway_Station_(20190925172423).jpg


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## dimlys1994

Any news on reopening of restricted Line 1 stations? I've read that Fushouling station will open to public within several years due to business park development:
http://www.beijing.gov.cn/zfxxgk/11...ontent_4b859ca534134673b1742eeb33ca68b8.shtml


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## CNGL

I had already read about Fushouling opening in a few years, and thus I added it to my map. It actually was open for a couple trains a day until 2007. It will be impossible for Gaojing to open for general public unless the area where it is located ceases to be a military zone, this reflects the original purpose of line 1 for not only civilian but also military use. Heishitou isn't actually part of line 1, but a regular railway side station on a military-only branch that happens to connect to line 1. After that the tracks hit the Fengtai-Shacheng railway at Sanjiadian station.


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## little universe

Daxing Airport Express by Chr P, on Flickr









Daxing Airport Express by Chr P, on Flickr










​


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## Woonsocket54

whatever happened to the plan to through-run trains on Line 1 and Batong line? Did that ever get past the press-release phase of development?


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## CNGL

Good question. Apparently all paperwork is done, and they wanted to start working on that this year. The planning maps already consider the Bawangfen-Tongzhou line as part of line 1 (and as such I do).

Meanwhile, when I saw the news about Fushouling station at the other end of line 1 being set to reopen I remembered the old Yuquanlu monorail line plan, which was to end at Fushouling too. That line was postponed indefinitely, and may be built as a regular metro line. I saw this line as line 28, however that number is now assigned to the CBD line. And I also found Yamenkou station, which appears on old planning maps as a branch of line 1 from Bajiao Youleyuan (Bajiao Amusement Park). It is another connection from line 1 to mainline railways, in addition to the one beyond the "apple orchard" (Pingguoyuan) through Beijing Military Region.


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## General Huo




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## General Huo




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## General Huo




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## luacstjh98

CNGL said:


> Good question. Apparently all paperwork is done, and they wanted to start working on that this year. The planning maps already consider the Bawangfen-Tongzhou line as part of line 1 (and as such I do).
> 
> Meanwhile, when I saw the news about Fushouling station at the other end of line 1 being set to reopen I remembered the old Yuquanlu monorail line plan, which was to end at Fushouling too. That line was postponed indefinitely, and may be built as a regular metro line. I saw this line as line 28, however that number is now assigned to the CBD line. And I also found Yamenkou station, which appears on old planning maps as a branch of line 1 from Bajiao Youleyuan (Bajiao Amusement Park). It is another connection from line 1 to mainline railways, in addition to the one beyond the "apple orchard" (Pingguoyuan) through Beijing Military Region.


What's the issue with no through-running between Line 1 and the Batong Line again? Incompatible signalling systems and lack of connecting tracks? (though the latter should be an easy one, I'd guess?)


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## :jax:

And simpler, and more frustrating, why aren't corresponding trains sharing a platform? A transfer from 1 line to Batong would be less of an issue, than the long march you have to take to move from the 1 platform to the Batong platform.

Same issue with the 5/Yizhuang line.


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## luacstjh98

:jax: said:


> Same issue with the 5/Yizhuang line.


Is that really much of an issue? It looks to me that the transfer from 5 to Yizhuang is pretty easy (pretty much across the platform), and only the other direction could be an issue. What looks more silly is that the platform is built for cross platform interchange between line 10 outer loop and line 5, but that's not done in operation.

Building an actual track link would be hard since line 5 and the Yizhuang line are at right angles to each other, you'd need to build a bypass loop through Songjiazhuang Depot, or abandon both existing lines' platforms and build a whole new link section through Songjiazhuang.

The frustrating thing with 1/Batong is that they appear to share the same rights of way at Sihui and Sihui East station, through service should have been done from the very beginning. Same thing with Fangshan/Yanfang and perhaps 9/Fangshan, though for the latter it appears that the Fangshan line is also going to be extended to meet line 16 so it can't operate through to line 9 anymore.


----------



## saiho

Yizhang Tram opening at the end of this year.

posted by marmoset


----------



## Woonsocket54

*be happy*

"Happy Valley Scenic Area" station on line 7 is now known as "Beijing Happy Valley" station.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing_Happy_Valley_station


----------



## Woonsocket54

*Recently opened Badaling Great Wall high-speed rail station in northwest Beijing*









https://www.zhonghongwang.com/show-285-163424-6.html









https://www.zhonghongwang.com/show-285-163424-6.html









https://www.zhonghongwang.com/show-285-163424-6.html









https://www.zhonghongwang.com/show-285-163424-6.html









https://www.zhonghongwang.com/show-285-163424-6.html









https://www.zhonghongwang.com/show-285-163424-6.html









http://www.haijiangzx.com/2020/0116/2046931.shtml


----------



## foxmulder

That is really looking great...


----------



## Sunfuns

I guess now is the right time if you want photos of nearly empty stations in China...


----------



## sweet-d

Badaling finally has an HSR station? Well at least I know where Im going this summer.


----------



## Woonsocket54

Construction site of Shunyi West Railway Station in Beijing (on the Beijing–Shenyang high-speed railway)









https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...Shunyixi_Railway_Station_(20200307153234).jpg


----------



## saiho

Fourth Gen Batong Line train by mszbm2020


----------



## saiho

Yizhuang Tram by 铁路小亨


----------



## saiho

北京公交集团


----------



## saiho

Unopened Universial Resort Station by SUBCITY


----------



## saiho

Some upgrades on Line 6. #Cyberpunk2077


----------



## saiho

Yizhuang Tram by 逢逢


----------



## saiho

Xijiao LRT by 逢逢


----------



## Zaz965

fastest subway train in beijing 160km/h


----------



## Rover030

Why does it have 4 doors per side on the first car and 2 on the other cars?


----------



## saiho

Rover030 said:


> Why does it have 4 doors per side on the first car and 2 on the other cars?


The first car is the checked luggage car.


----------



## CNGL

If you thought Beijing, being the capital of the PRC, could bypass all the approval hassle you thought wrong. They still have to get the NDRC approval like all other cities, like they got in early December for an adjustment of the short-term plan, which included the Winter Olympic branch (line 11), the northern extension of Daxing Airport Express, adjustments to line 22 (the Pinggu line) and 28, the line 13 split, and the removal of the Zhoukoudian branch of line 25 (Yanfang line).

In other news, sometime in June line S1 (the Fuzhongxin commuter line, not to be confused with S1 line which I refer to as line 26) will extend its service along the Beijing-Guangzhou railway to Liangxiang station in Fangshan district. In addition commuter trains will start to run on the Beijing-Chengde railway from Tongzhouxi (Tongzhou West) to Miyunbei (Miyun North), with some running to Huairoubei (Huairou North), thus providing a second commuter line to the outlying districts of Huairou and Miyun.


----------



## CNGL

In other news we missed that since March 31 express trains are running on line 6. Well, the "express" thing is a misnomer, because such configuration is only available in the Sub-City Center (a.k.a. Fuzhongxin and Tongzhou) area, since in a major planning blunder they decided to drop the local-express configuration from the 1st phase (that's it, the section running through downtown from Haidian Wuluju to Caofang).

In addition, Pingguoyuan station closed on April 18 for renovations, so line 1 now temporarily ends at Gucheng. Thus, I unofficially consider Beijing Subway has shrunk 2.6 km for the time being. When Pingguoyuan reopens in late 2021, it will not only serve a re-extended line 1 (and maybe extended beyond to Fushouling?), but will be also an infill station on line 6 and a one-station extension for line 26 (the S1 maglev line).


----------



## saiho

Line 5 by 北京地铁


----------



## CNGL

CNGL said:


> In other news, sometime in June line S1 (the Fuzhongxin commuter line, not to be confused with S1 line which I refer to as line 26) will extend its service along the Beijing-Guangzhou railway to Liangxiang station in Fangshan district. In addition commuter trains will start to run on the Beijing-Chengde railway from Tongzhouxi (Tongzhou West) to Miyunbei (Miyun North), with some running to Huairoubei (Huairou North), thus providing a second commuter line to the outlying districts of Huairou and Miyun.


Both will happen on Tuesday. I still have to find a numerical designation for the line on the Beijing-Chengde railway, I've seen line S5 but that is the existing Huairou Miyun line. That line is expected to reach Beijingbei (Beijing North) station in September. Another line, line S11 running on the Northeast ring railway from Huangtudian to Beijingdong (Beijing East) and expected to serve Xinghuo (the start of the Beijing-Shenyang High-speed railway) is expected to be put into operation later this year.


----------



## dimlys1994

CNGL said:


> Both will happen on Tuesday. I still have to find a numerical designation for the line on the Beijing-Chengde railway, I've seen line S5 but that is the existing Huairou Miyun line. That line is expected to reach Beijingbei (Beijing North) station in September. Another line, line S11 running on the Northeast ring railway from Huangtudian to Beijingdong (Beijing East) and expected to serve Xinghuo (the start of the Beijing-Shenyang High-speed railway) is expected to be put into operation later this year.


Regarding to Sub-Central line, will Yamenkou station be located at the same location where it was? When it is planned to open and what connections will have to existing subway lines?





衙门口站 - 维基百科，自由的百科全书







zh.wikipedia.org


----------



## saiho

SUBCITY 

 
\


----------



## luacstjh98

Hey, that actually looks pretty nice.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:









Beijing Metro Line 5 systems upgrade contract awarded


Beijing Metro has awarded a contract to CRRC Sifang to upgrade the train protection and control systems on Line 5, replacing systems in use since 2007.




www.railjournal.com


----------



## RyukyuRhymer

LG's transparent OLED displays are on subway windows in China


LG is bringing transparent OLED displays to subway trains in Beijing and Shenzhen.




www.engadget.com


----------



## Ashis Mitra

In last year, Beijing metro has not expanded much like previous years. Only an eastern extension of line *7* up to Huazhuang has done. It will be extended more up to Universal Resort/ When this extension will be opened for public?

The joining of two portions of line *8* and line *14* is still unfinished. It is now planned to open in next year, 2021. Why so late for such short sections?

Opening of line 3, 11, 12 has now again pushed back, now respectively in 2022, 2021 & 2021. In 2020, there will be no significant extension. I think all the progress is now hampering due to Covid 19 epidemic. Now we have no other way except waiting for good news in next two years. I hope in 2022, the Beijing metro system will be completed entirely, may be the largest metro of the world.


----------



## saiho

If by no significant expansion in 2020 you mean Line 16 Central Section and Fangshan Line North Extension. Well that's more than my city can muster up in decades.


----------



## Ashis Mitra

OOoh, I never heard before that line 16 will be extended in 2020.


----------



## Ashis Mitra

After opening the new tram line in Xijiao area, a completely separate tram line is now under construction in Yizhuang area. What is the current status of that line? When will be opened for public.

Sadly the Shunyi area tram is now put on hold. Could anyone say what is the reason of this?

I heard recently another new tram system is planned in Fengtai area. Please write some details with a map. When the construction will start?


----------



## :jax:

I don't know, but passed it on to the China tram forum, in case some tram fan knew.



:jax: said:


> Anyone knows current status of Beijing tram lines?


----------



## luacstjh98

Back in June apparently approval was given for the works for through service between Line 1 and the Batong line, scheduled to complete in late 2022:



企业动态_北京市人民政府国有资产监督管理委员会


----------



## saiho

Line 19 Train by ky900310


----------



## Frenchlover

luacstjh98 said:


> Back in June apparently approval was given for the works for through service between Line 1 and the Batong line, scheduled to complete in late 2022:
> 
> 
> 
> 企业动态_北京市人民政府国有资产监督管理委员会


Good news. I didn't understand why they decided to cut L1 in two unlinked sections, the same with L5 with Yizhuang and L9 with Fangshan lines which apprently doesn't make sense. Why that?
Curiously they didn't do it for L4 and its extension to Daxing... nevertheless without renumbering it L4... Can somebody explain why?
As well, are they planning to link L5 and Yizhuang?


----------



## CNGL

This also is seen in the denominations I use for those named lines:
Yizhuang line: Line 24
Fangshan line: Line 25
Bawangfen-Tongzhou (Batong) line: ... part of line 1 .

AFAIK lines 5 and 24 end at a right angle to each other, and thus it is impossible to link each other. Line 25 is being extended North from Guogongzhuang, so there is no chance to link it to line 9.


----------



## Frenchlover

CNGL said:


> This also is seen in the denominations I use for those named lines:
> Yizhuang line: Line 24
> Fangshan line: Line 25
> Bawangfen-Tongzhou (Batong) line: ... part of line 1 .
> 
> AFAIK lines 5 and 24 end at a right angle to each other, and thus it is impossible to link each other. Line 25 is being extended North from Guogongzhuang, so there is no chance to link it to line 9.


Thx for these precisions. Nevertheless, you didn't answer some questions : 
Why did they cut L1 with a transfer to Batong line instead of buiding a unique line whereas there was no problem of "angle" I guess ?
Why didn't they do that for L4 with through operation... but they still maintain 2 names for the same line : L4 and Daxing?


----------



## saiho

Dongdaqiao Station proposed layout. Interchange between Lines 6, 17 and 28. Posted by hat600


----------



## Frenchlover

Le 30 septembre 2020, la ligne Huairou-Miyun du chemin de fer de banlieue de Pékin sera prolongée jusqu'à la gare du nord de Pékin, et la ligne Huaimi sera introduite de la gare de Qinghe au nord de Pékin Station (station partagée avec le train à grande vitesse Beijing-Zhangjiakou), d'une longueur de 11,2 kilomètres, avec 1 station à la gare du nord de Beijing. D'ici là, le kilométrage total d'exploitation de la ligne Huairou-Miyun atteindra 144,6 kilomètres et il y aura 7 stations.


----------



## CNGL

The Huairou-Miyun suburban rail line now goes all the way to Beijingbei (or Beijing North) station. In addition, the whole line was out of service during August while the Beijing-Tongliao railway (which the Huaimi line uses) was being electrified, thus allowing the use of CRH-6 EMUs for this suburban line. Now if they only re-extended line S2 back to Beijingbei... although I think they are waiting for the Yanqing branch of the Beijing-Zhangjiakou Baotou PDL* to open (and it was due for now...) before doing so.

* The Beijing-Zhangjiakou ICR, the Zhangjiakou-Hohhot HSR and the quadruplication of the Beijing-Baotou railway between Hohhot and Baotou are now referred together as the "Beijing-Baotou Passenger-dedicated Line".


----------



## koo00




----------



## saiho

至你心中最后的五边进场


----------



## saiho

Type D train rumored to be used on the Pinggu Line. Posted by 铁道视界


----------



## saiho

New signage for Line 13 by SUBCITY


----------



## mrmoopt

Very clever signaging, pays homage to both OG design language of BJ Metro, and typical Japanese metro signage types, whilst hinting at brushes of MTR signage design types as well.


----------



## CNGL

Strange they didn't have put Da Zhong Si and Dong Zhi Men like they did in line 7 and Batong (sorry, "Ba Tong") line (line 1 East). I hope they revert that.


----------



## koo00




----------



## koo00




----------



## koo00




----------



## saiho

koo00 said:


> Line 25 (Fangshan Line) will be extended North next month. Even after the extension is opened, the through operation between Line 25 (Fangshan Line) and Line 9 via Guogongzhuang is still possible. Also the through operation of Line 27 (Changping Line) and Line 8 is possible. Source: 企业动态_北京市人民政府国有资产监督管理委员会


^ This says "transformation of the Yamenkou branch line of Line 1". I am aware there is a short connector line between Bajiao Amusement Park and Guchang Stations connecting Line 1 to a mainline railway branch line. Does that mean this connector, which only is single track, will be activated for some sort of branch shuttle service? Does anyone know operationally what that would look like?


----------



## koo00




----------



## koo00




----------



## koo00




----------



## CNGL

Two extensions are opening on December 31. Line 16 is being extended from Xiyuan to... Ganjia Kou (thus not reaching Wanpingcheng yet), adding 10 km and 5 stations (another 2, Suzhou Qiao and Erligou, will miss the opening day  ). Line 25, better known as the Fangshan line, is being extended from Guogongzhuang North to Dongguantou Nan, adding 5 km and 4 stations and connecting directly to line 10 but not yet to line 16, as it won't extend that far South.

In another news, I found some maps showing they are again changing the transliteration style. No more syllabe by syllabe, which was silly, but instead sticking to the pinyin rules like I do in my map. However they haven't corrected Guaanzhuang, the correct "Shaanxified" (i.e. derived from Gwoyeu Romatzyh) spelling is _Goanzhuang_.


----------



## lawdefender

On the last day of 2020, Beijing Rail Transit will open three new lines at the same time, namely, the northern extension of Fangshan Line, the middle section of Line 16, and the tram T1 line.

The Beijing Subway system length: 703 km






北京房山线北延乘坐攻略（经过站点+魅力点）-北京全关注


北京房山线北延乘坐攻略（经过站点+魅力点） 具体开通时间 自2020年12月31日首班车起，地铁房山线北延(郭公庄—东管头南)将开通试运营。 房山线北延位于丰台区，全长约4.8公里，共设车站4座，分别为白盆窑站、花乡东桥站、首经贸站、东管头南站。乘客在首经贸站可与10号线换乘。 房山线介绍




www.banzhengshi.com


----------



## Frenchlover

lawdefender said:


> On the last day of 2020, Beijing Rail Transit will open three new lines at the same time, namely, the northern extension of Fangshan Line, the middle section of Line 16, and the tram T1 line.
> 
> The Beijing Subway system length: 703 km
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 北京房山线北延乘坐攻略（经过站点+魅力点）-北京全关注
> 
> 
> 北京房山线北延乘坐攻略（经过站点+魅力点） 具体开通时间 自2020年12月31日首班车起，地铁房山线北延(郭公庄—东管头南)将开通试运营。 房山线北延位于丰台区，全长约4.8公里，共设车站4座，分别为白盆窑站、花乡东桥站、首经贸站、东管头南站。乘客在首经贸站可与10号线换乘。 房山线介绍
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.banzhengshi.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 915584


Always better with a map !

Does somebody know why they didn't open the transfer stations to L10 and L6 ?


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:









Beijing Daxing Airport - Xiong’an HS line opens


CHINA National Railway opened the 59km high-speed line between Beijing Daxing Airport and Xiong’an on December 27 2020.




www.railjournal.com


----------



## saiho

Yizhuang Tram by zhenzuanshou


----------



## koo00

The second-from-last photo is the station list of Metro Yizhuang Line (Line 24), not the Yizhuang T1 Tram Line.

Here is the station list of Yizhuang T1 Tram Line


----------



## koo00




----------



## Zaz965




----------



## saiho

Line 19 Trains apparently are 6+2 business class cars. Posted by vbj of Ditiezu.


----------



## koo00

Saiho, these are actually photos from Official account of the operator.








地铁19号线列车“靓”相啦！叫啥你来定～


北京轨道运营携手19号线列车宝宝等宁来取名～




mp.weixin.qq.com




Line 19


----------



## :jax:

I have seen the occasional reference to M101 and M103 (and presumably M102), but no line map or other information. M presumably means metro, but "101" and "103" doesn't fit the number scheme. I think they cross the Beijing/Hebei border. Anyone knows more?


----------



## Tcmetro

:jax: said:


> I have seen the occasional reference to M101 and M103 (and presumably M102), but no line map or other information. M presumably means metro, but "101" and "103" doesn't fit the number scheme. I think they cross the Beijing/Hebei border. Anyone knows more?


Those are likely the metro lines for the Tongzhou administrative district. 






北京城市副中心M101线 - 维基百科，自由的百科全书







zh.wikipedia.org


----------



## CNGL

I've been trying to get details about the planned metro lines in the Fuzhongxin area in the East (they are 4 BTW). Now I've been able to track them down. Unfortunately and much to Frenchlover's dismay I haven't found any maps showing all 4. The lines:
*Line 101*, Gaoxinzhuang (on the U/C line 3) to Qigezhuang. Northwest-Southeast line, intersecting line 6 at Beiyunhe Dong (which may be renamed Fuzhongxin in the future).
*Line 102*, loop line with branches to Ciqu (on line 26 a.k.a. Yizhuang line) and Shenwei Jie. Existing stations include Jiukeshu (on line 1 East a.k.a. Batong line), Dongxia Yuan (on line 6), Wansheng Dong (on line 7) and Yizhuang Huoche Zhan (on the Ciqu branch, as well as on line 26), also passing through Huanqiu Dujianqu (Universal Resort, the as of yet unopened terminus of lines 1 East and 7).
*Line 103*, Guaanzhuang (or Goanzhuang as I spell it, on line 1 East a.k.a. Batong line) to Shiguzhuang. East-West line, almost making it to the Hebei exclave, intersecting line 6 at Tongyunmen.
*Line 104*, Wanshengqiao Dong (at the end of planned line 11) to Jiagezhuang and Sanhui Dongqiao. East-West line intersecting line 1 East (a.k.a. Batong line) at Linheli, with its branch also intersecting line 6 at Beiyunhe Dong (Fuzhongxin). It may feature through-running to line 11, with trains running all the way to Moshikou.


----------



## Tcmetro

From what I understand the Daxing Airport line is also supposed to through run with Xiong'an Line 1. Very interesting to see how the Beijing Subway is unfolding it's expansion.

The suburban rail lines seem quite lackluster for the time being. The longer metro lines (Daxing Airport-Xiong'an) might be better integrated into a large scale Hebei rail network.

Also, Wikipedia says the Batong Line will be combined with Line 1 soon. Good to see that happening. Is the "express" version of Line 1 still in the plans?


----------



## Jim856796

Tcmetro said:


> Also, Wikipedia says the Batong Line will be combined with Line 1 soon. Good to see that happening. Is the "express" version of Line 1 still in the plans?


Right now, I'm not so sure about the proposed R1 express line (or Line 18). I've been thinking that will have to wait until _every_ station on Line 1 (even those on the Batong Line) is extended to accommodate 8-car trains. Currently, only the section of LIne 1 between Fuxingmen and Sihui East can accommodate 8-car trains. It'll be 2040 before construction starts on that express line.

Also, the proposed Line 3 is designed to support 8-car trains. Any other lines in Beijing's subway planned to support 8-car trains rather than 6-car in the future? Line 8?


----------



## Tcmetro

Well it makes sense to wait on Line 18/R1 if Line 1 can be expanded to 8-car trains. Filling out the network may also help reduce pressure as the subway grid becomes more complete.


----------



## :jax:

It is not particularly hard to combine long and short trains, though it is inconvenient. That is a common situation elsewhere in the world.There are multiple options. 

All short trains: simple, but suboptimal for throughput. If there are entrances at both ends of a platform that means that passengers have to walk further to reach the trains. 

Lock surplus cars on short platforms: All doors open in long platforms, only applicable doors in short platforms. Either the car is closed when going from long to short, or if the cars are connected the non-opening doors are signed with arrow which direction to walk to leave the train. 

Mix short and long trains: The short trains stop at all stations, the long trains only at long platform stations (like here the central locations). Passengers will have to be made aware that some trains are short, and thus not all platform doors will open (where applicable). 

Separate trains: Short trains travel the short platform track, long trains the long platform track. That is basically the situation today (except the trains being of same length), but it could be improved if the track crossed on the Batong Line. That way passengers won't have to trek from one platform to the other, but simply cross the platform.

The R1 idea as I was told it was 4 tracks, and I think 2 platforms for the express stations. The advantage with that is that a station can easily be bypassed during reconstruction, and if two platforms one can be used while the other is reconstructed. That could easily manage mix and match. A simpler 1 platform station couldn't do that, but would be cheaper and simpler in use. Then the options would be bypass or not bypass.


----------



## saiho

Jim856796 said:


> Also, the proposed Line 3 is designed to support 8-car trains. Any other lines in Beijing's subway planned to support 8-car trains rather than 6-car in the future? Line 8?


Lines 12, 16, 17, 19 support 8 car Type A trains like Line 3.


----------



## Woonsocket54

Line 7 and Batong Line extensions to Universal Beijing Resort might open next month....









Universal Resort station - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## :jax:

CNGL said:


> I've been trying to get details about the planned metro lines in the Fuzhongxin area in the East (they are 4 BTW). Now I've been able to track them down. Unfortunately and much to Frenchlover's dismay I haven't found any maps showing all 4. The lines:


While looking up the Pinggu line, this article covered that line in detail:

*最新！通州5个地铁站开工时间表来啦！多个换乘站…*

And it also had a map of Fuzhongxin area in great detail. Insane ones I'd say. There are more lines drawn up in a few square km than for the whole of Beijing for decades. In addition to the HSR, we got existing Batong and (M)6, M101, M102, M103, R1 with a detour and S6 to top it off.


----------



## :jax:

Added a rough Google map for Pinggu, and M101-104, based on the available information (and patience). Any other metro, commuter or HSR line not added, nor did I extend anything into the Langfang exclave or beyond. 










Google map is here. If you like to spruce it up (feel free), the original is here.


----------



## :jax:

Finally I made a commuter/HSR map for JingJinJi area with focus on Beijing. A work in progress. That Google Maps decided to crash didn't help. As before here is the map, feel free to improve.










For commuter purposes max train speed is not very important. Frequency is. Convenience, reliability, and price matters as well. Problem with the China Railways commuter lines isn't speed, but that they mostly have 4-5 trains a day. Ad hoc I defined that any line with less than 10 hours a day with at least 1 train an hour is "low-frequency" (that would incidentally include some HSR stations, possibly within the JingJinJi area). Of course, if you live in Shijiazhuang and travel to Chengde, you'd care a lot about speed, but that is not the commuter scenario.

Earlier I've pored over maps to guess most likely location. This time I haven't bothered. If I can't find a station it doesn't exist, and all trains travel in straight lines station to station. Several lines in planning/under construction. That might change too, but these lines seem well established.


----------



## maginn

That’s amazing work! 
Only thing missing I can think of is the Chongli railway branch line to 太子城站（Taizicheng Railway Station), from Xiahuayuanbei railway station in the Zhangjiakou area.


----------



## :jax:

Slight update: Added that branch line (only had the location of Taizicheng, the end station), and fixed some missing data. This map is done for now, on my side anyway, until new info arrives.


----------



## Bankingroot

All metro trains on Line 1 and Batong Line will renumber. by Subcity


S401-S431 (Sihui Depot, Line 1) -> 01001-01031
G432-G470 (Gucheng Depot, Line 1) -> 01032-01070
TQ401-TQ437 (Tuqiao Depot, Batong Line) -> 01071-01107

new metro trains: 01108-01112


----------



## leonardot

LinpingEast said:


> View attachment 1467500
> View attachment 1467503
> View attachment 1467510
> 
> By 都城嘉慕电车


This metro train is for which line? It looks nice!


----------



## Woonsocket54

Erligou station (line 6/line 16 subway interchange). Trains on both subway lines currently pass through without stopping.


















Erligou station - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## saiho

leonardot said:


> This metro train is for which line? It looks nice!


They are Line 17 Trains.


----------



## Pierre50

Great !!!


----------



## Woonsocket54

Yuyuantan East Gate Station (under construction on Line 16)


















File:Exit D of Yuyuantan East Gate Station (20210516161112).jpg - Wikimedia Commons







commons.wikimedia.org


----------



## saiho

Line 19 Niujie Station posted by 35410213


----------



## NCT

I don't really see the point in 1+1 seating.

On the other hand, if seats with moquettes are practical on Chinese metro systems, then they should really become standard. Hard plastic seats are a bit lame.


----------



## CNGL

Many new lines and extensions are opening on December 31 as part of the traditional (Gregorian) year's end. Since there are too many openings in one day exceptionally I adopt the "new short term plan" format, i.e. a quick recap:

*Line 8*, fill in the gap between Zhongguo Meishuguan and Zhushikou, 4.3 km, 3 stations.
*Line 11*, new line from Jin'anqiao to Xinshougang, 4.2 km, 4 stations. Finally one of the numbers left out in the 2008-15 plan appears.
*Line 14*, fill in the gap between Xiju and Beijing South station (Beijingnan Zhan), 4 km, 5 stations. Finally the 2008-15 plan is complete, 6 years later. This was the only section that missed the deadline.
*Line 16*, one-station extension from Ganjiakou to Yuyuantan Dongmen, 1 km.
*Line 17*, new line from Shilihe to Jiahuihu, 16.5 km, 7 stations.
*Line 19*, new line from Mudanyuan to Xingong, 22.4 km, 6 stations. Another 4 (Bei Taipingzhuang, Ping'anli, Taipingqiao and Jingfengmen) have missed the opening day.
*Line 26 *(a.k.a. metro line S1, not to be confused with the Fuzhongxin commuter rail line), one-station extension from Jin'anqiao to Pingguoyuan, 1.2 km.
*Line 27* (a.k.a. Changping line), one-station extension from Xi'erqi to Qinghe railway station (Qinghe Zhan), 1.6 km.
*Line 34* (a.k.a. Shoudu Jichang line, or Capital Airport Express), one-station extension from Dongzhimen to Beixinqiao, 1.8 km.

In addition it is expected line 1 to resume service to Pingguoyuan, and the line 6 platforms there to open as well.


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## saiho

posted by igunisu


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## Zaz965

^^^^^^^
@saiho, @CNGL , I find gorgeous these handles


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## Dr.Dennis.Deng

When is actually the Beijing Chaoyang Railway Station going to be connected to the metro network, and which line will that be?


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## gao7

*Three new lines opened as Beijing metro expands again*
The opening of three new metro lines and six extensions in Beijing has increased the capital’s urban rail network to a total length of 783 route-km.

More than 57 km of new line was opened for revenue service on December 31, including a fully automated branch to serve the venue for the forthcoming Winter Olympic Games.
The 4·2 km *Line 11* connects the Olympic venues at Xinshougang with Line 6 at Jinanqiao, initially serving three stations. A fourth station at Moshikou at the northern end of the route has not yet opened. The line was envisaged as part of the city’s 2008-15 expansion programme, but it was not approved by the National Development & Reform Commission until December 2019.

Designed for a maximum speed of 100 km/h, Line 11 is operated with four-car aluminium bodied Type A trainsets manufactured by Beijing Subway Rolling Stock Equipment Co, although the stations have been built with provision for six-car trains. Peak headway for the initial service is 5 min 30 sec.

The 15·8 km southern section of north-south *Line 17* serves the southeastern part of the conurbation. The initial seven-station Phase I runs from Jiahuihu to an interchange with Line 14 at Shilihe, and has an end-to-end journey time of 18 min. The line is being operated by eight Type A trains from CRRC Qingdao Sifang, out of a total of 68 eight-car 100 km/h trainsets on order.

Being run by the Beijing MTR joint venture between Hong Kong’s MTR Corp, Beijing Capital Group Ltd and Beijing Infrastructure Investment Corp under a 20-year operations and maintenance concession, the 49·7 km Line 17 with 21 stations was approved by the Beijing Municipal Development & Reform Commission in December 2016, and construction began in May 2017. The remainder of the line serving the northeast of the city is expected to open in stages by the end of 2023.

*Express metro link*
Designed for fully automatic operation, north-south express metro *Line 19* has been under trial operation since September 2021. The initial 22·4 km section between Mudanyuan and Xingong serves 10 stations, although four have not yet opened.

Unlike most urban lines in Beijing where the average spacing between stations is 1·2 km and trains run at a maximum speed of 80 km/h, the express Line 19 has stations spaced at an average of 2·3 km and is designed for 120 km/h operation, although the first section is initially restricted to 100 km/h. This offers an end-to-end journey time of 24 min.

The line is worked by a fleet of 25 eight-car Type A trainsets branded as _Orca. _Manufactured by CRRC Changchun and assembled locally at CRRC Beijing Feb. 7th Locomotive Co, the 3 000 mm wide units have a nominal capacity of 3 456 passengers. The trains operate every 8 min off-peak and every 6 min at peak times.

As Line 19 interchanges with the Daxing Airport Express service at Caoqiao, it has been tailored to accommodate a substantial flow of airport passengers. Two cars in each trainset are fitted with ‘high-quality’ seats in a 1+1 layout leaving plenty of space for luggage. All stations are provided with accessible toilets including low sinks for use by children.

*Closing the gaps*
Also opened on December 31 was the 4·3 km central section of *Line 8*, with three stations, completing the 51·6 km route which has opened in stages since 2008. Connecting up the isolated northern and southern sections enables through running from Zhushikou to Zhongguo Meishuguan (National Art Museum). End-to-end journey time is 85 min, with trains running every 2 min at peak times.The 4 km central section of *Line 14* between Xiju and Beijing Nan adds a further five stations to that route, taking it to a total length of 50·8 km with 35 stations. Line 14 is also operated by Beijing MTR Corp under a 30-year PPP concession. Opening of the central section is expected to increase its average ridership to more than 910 000 passengers/day. Line 14’s existing fleet of 63 six-car Type A trainsets has been augmented by a further 14 units, increasing capacity by 34%.
To the west of the city centre, Beijing MTR Corp opened a 1 km extension of *Line 16* from Ganjiakou to Yuyuantan Dongmen, taking that route to an operational length of 31·9 km. A further southwestern extension of this line is expected to open before the end of 2022, including an interchange with the recently-opened section of Line 14 at Lize Shangwuqu.

‘As our network grows, we will continue to provide high-quality operations and services, enhance customer experience with new initiatives and empower our operations and services by new technology’, said Beijing MTR General Manager Wilson Shao. This would bring ‘more value to the community’ and support the sustainable development of the city, he added.

*Suburban links*
In conjunction with the opening of Line 11, the low-speed suburban maglev *Line S1* has been extended by 1·2 km from Pingguoyuan to the metro interchange at Jinanqiao. This elevated section runs parallel with the westernmost part of Line 6. Minimum headway between maglev services is now 5 min 10 sec.

Another suburban route to grow on December 31 was the *Changping Line*, where a 12·6 km southern extension is due to be completed by the end of 2022. An initial 1·6 km section at the northern end of the extension has been put into operation, with services extended from Xierqi to Qinghe. The Changping Line is operated by a fleet of 32 Type SFM13 trainsets delivered by CRRC Sifang in three batches since 2009. It currently offers a peak headway of 2 min 30 sec.

Finally, a 1·8 km underground extension takes the automated *Capital Airport Express* further into the city centre. Under construction since 2015, this short stub runs west from the former terminus at Dongzhimen to an interchange with Line 5 at Beixinqiao. Minimum headway on the Capital Airport Express is now 11 min.

Three new lines opened as Beijing metro expands again


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## saiho

CNGL said:


> I've been trying to get details about the planned metro lines in the Fuzhongxin area in the East (they are 4 BTW). Now I've been able to track them down. Unfortunately and much to Frenchlover's dismay I haven't found any maps showing all 4. The lines:
> *Line 101*, Gaoxinzhuang (on the U/C line 3) to Qigezhuang. Northwest-Southeast line, intersecting line 6 at Beiyunhe Dong (which may be renamed Fuzhongxin in the future).


For Lines 101-104, only Line 101 will be included in the Phase 3 short-term plan (2022-2027) of Beijing Subway.
Source: www.bii.com.cn/s/1406-5128-9637.html


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## CNGL

Quite a few surprises are drafted in the new short term plan. I was caught by that third phase of line 7, which I had no idea where it could go. It turns out it will be North! from Beijingxi (Beijing West) railway station. It would have made more sense for it to continue further West, but that path is already taken by the second phase of line 11. And some may be surprised by that 3rd phase of line 25, which should take the Fangshan line all the way into downtown, I'm not as I already knew the plan for a while now.


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## Zaz965

@saiho, @gao7, which subway line is this?








by vivien on 500px


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## Ashis Mitra

*This is line 24*


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## Ashis Mitra

In last year, Beijing has done a revolutionary and great work. At last the metro company has officially named the named metro lines with numbers like most other lines. It means now it is truly under the Beijing metro network, authentically.

Batong line became line 1 also, so now line 1 runs from Gucheng to Universal Resort.
Daxing line became line 4 also, so now line 4 runs from Anheqiao North to Tiangonyuan.
Yizhuang line became line 24.
Fangshan and Yanfang line jointly became line 25.
Changping line became line 27.

So now many people can call Beijing has 19 metro line. However line 26 is a maglev system, line 34 & 35 are express metro system, so I have omitted those. Now Beijing is really racing with Shanghai in term of metro network. Both have near 800 Km. network.

Beside this, a number of extension has opened in last year.

Line *1* & line *7* both has now extended in east from Huazhuang to Universal Resort. I think such parallel running of two lines are not actually necessary, but may be it done for handling overcrowding.
The long awaited line *8* joining of two sections has done at last at central area. So now line 8 can run seamlessly, no need to get down, take a bus, and take again metro. It is a very important line.
The long awaited line *11* has now opened at last. It is perhaps the shortest but one metro route in the world, after Hongkong. It has only 3 stations, and it serves the winter Olympic village in western Beijing.
Like line 8, another long awaited line *14* joining of two sections has done at last at central area. So now line 14 also can run seamlessly, no need to get down, take a bus, and take again metro. It is another very important line.
Line *16* has extended a bit towards central Beijing from Ganjikau to Yuyutan Park East Gate. The remaining extension towards south-west area is under construction and is planned to open after some month.
Line *17* is a new line which has opened to serve the south-eastern Beijing.
Line *19* is another new line which pass perfectly through middle of the Beijing, and touches most other lines. It serves the city centre from north to south.
Line *27* has extended at bit towards north-central Beijing, which is running parallel with line 13. May be this was done for handling overcrowding.

So after these new lines and extension, the Beijing metro has expanded much more. Now we are waiting for line 3, 12, 18, 20, 21, 22, 23, all of these are under construction. After those, the metro network will be really gigantic.


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## Zaz965

@Dr.Dennis.Deng, pardon me for asking. do you live in China?


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## dennis.deng

Yes. Why do you ask?


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## WiseSupernova

dtghjsgc said:


> Beijing Subway Line 3 trains (Computer Image, not the actual photo)
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> 北京地铁3号线首列车正式下线
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> 据京投公司介绍，作为国内首次实现全自动联挂、灵活编组的全自动驾驶地铁车辆，地铁3号线采用4+4重联全自动无人驾驶技术，最高运行时速80公里，最大载客量3456人
> 
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> china.huanqiu.com
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> View attachment 3468388


What a nice render!


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## Zaz965

@saiho, @gao7, @CNGL , does line 1 have ground level parts?  
















北京地铁SFM04型电动车组 - 维基百科，自由的百科全书







zh.wikipedia.org


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## General Huo

*Construction of the southern extension of Beijing Rail Transit Line 6 officially started*
_2022-09-05 Source: Beijing Daily_ 
On August 30, with the entry of the general contractor of the second phase (south extension section) of Rail Transit Line 6, the construction of fences and the demolition and relocation of ground objects were carried out, marking the city's first new rail transit in EPC mode. The project officially started construction. The project is of great significance to improving the rail transit service level in the core area of the city's sub-center, increasing the proportion of green travel, and assisting the construction of the city's sub-center.


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## CNGL

I wonder why they say the direction of the extension instead of which extreme is the extension located (the latter conveys more information). Line 6 is East-West, so this is an Eastern extension for me.


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## _Night City Dream_

Are there any sources with pictures of ALL metro trains on ALL lines in Beijing?


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## Stuu

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Are there any sources with pictures of ALL metro trains on ALL lines in Beijing?


The Wikipedia page is pretty comprehensive, and links through to the Chinese version which has even more photos


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## General Huo

*Opened at the end of the year, with 10 stations, the southern section of the Beijing Subway line began to "run the map"*
2022-11-16 08:34·Guangming Net
guide

On November 15th, according to the China Railway Electrification Bureau, the project of the southern section of Beijing Metro Line 16 has entered the stage of "running the map" from now on. During the peak period, 28 subway vehicles will be running on the main line, which is the beginning of the passenger trial operation at the end of this year. Lay the groundwork.

The Beijing Metro Line 16 project is the north-south backbone line of the Beijing rail transit network. After the entire line is completed, the line will start from Bei'an River in the north, end in Wanping in the south, and pass through the three administrative districts of Haidian, Xicheng and Fengtai.

The southern section of Line 16 starts from Yuyuantan Dongmen Station in the north and ends at Yushuzhuang Station in the south, with a total length of 14.4 kilometers and 10 stations.









China Railway Electrification Bureau Group Co., Ltd. Urban Railway Company undertakes the construction general contracting of the power supply, comprehensive monitoring, communication system and passenger information system of Line 16, the installation of signal and civil communication systems, and comprehensive joint commissioning management services.

"The sports car according to the map is to simulate the operation of the whole line according to the train operation plan before the subway line is opened for operation." Dai Yanhua, project manager of the China Railway Electrochemical Bureau, introduced that according to the regulations on the trial operation of the subway, the trial run time should not be less than 3 months. In the last 20 days, trains should be driven according to the train operation chart when the trial operation was opened.









During the period of "running the map", the operation personnel and equipment of the whole line will be trial run according to the operation mode. A total of 8 key indicators, including the failure rate of trains leaving the main line, the failure rate of vehicle systems, the failure rate of signaling systems, the failure rate of power supply systems, and the failure rate of platform doors, were comprehensively tested and inspected.









It is understood that the 20-day test run of the sports car according to the map will be carried out in a fully enclosed state without external interference. Vehicles, personnel, and equipment will all be organized and dispatched in strict accordance with the standards of the test run. The availability of the various equipment systems and the overall system of the subway , safety and reliability, conduct actual combat assessments, test the training of operating personnel, fault simulation and emergency drills, etc., and comprehensively verify the organization and response capabilities of the operation organization, passenger transportation organization, and equipment support.

Wang Huifeng, the relevant person in charge of the express company affiliated to Beijing Investment Railway, said that after the opening of the southern section of Metro Line 16, it will be connected with the northern and middle sections of Line 16, which will effectively ease the traffic between the Shanhou area and the central city. pressure. The opening of the line will improve the travel structure of residents, play an important role in promoting the development of the Haidian Mountain area, and realize the function of rail transit not only taking into account traffic dispersal but also guiding urban development.

Reposted from: China Railway Electrification Bureau

Source: Beijing Traffic Radio


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## General Huo

*The urban renewal model will be piloted for the first time in Beijing Metro, and the three old stations will start to be integrated with the surrounding public spaces next year.*
2022-11-18 09:02·Beijing News
Recently, the Beijing Municipal Development and Reform Commission approved the implementation plan of Caishikou, Beihaibei, Chongwenmen subway stations and surrounding public space renovation and upgrading projects, which will coordinate the underground and above-ground space of the stations, traffic distribution and urban activities, environmental quality and waterlogging safety. Intensively utilize the stock space, integrate multiple functions, improve the rail transit service function, and create a livable and attractive space. The above three projects are expected to start construction next year. This is also the first pilot urban renewal model for Beijing subway stations.









Renovation renderings of Beihai North Station

*Some old subway stations are inconvenient to transfer and need to be renovated*

The Beijing Subway was first built in 1965, and the first subway line was completed and opened to traffic in 1969, making Beijing the first city in China to have a subway.

The time span of subway construction is long. Due to the influence of development concepts in different periods and the spatial timing of construction implementation, the functions, quality and high-quality development requirements of some subway stations and surrounding public spaces are no longer suitable. Problems such as poor connectivity and poor quality of the surrounding environment are frequently reported.

Since 2020, the Municipal Development and Reform Commission has organized Beijing Investment Corporation and other units to conduct research and sort out the subway stations and surrounding public spaces in the core area, focusing on Caishikou Station, Beihai North Station, Chaoyangmen Station, and Chongwenmen Station, which have a large passenger flow and more prominent problems. Stations, the integrated transformation of stations and surrounding public spaces will be incorporated into the pilot project library of urban public space transformation and upgrading demonstration projects, and a new model for the integration, transformation and upgrading of existing subway stations and surrounding public spaces will be explored.

Taking Chongwenmen Station of the subway with a long history as an example, after the Chongwenmen Inner Street road was widened, the entrance and exit of the station B is located in the separation zone between motor vehicles and non-motor vehicles, making it inconvenient for passengers to pass; The facilities have not been opened up, people and vehicles are seriously intertwined; the transfer stairs and passages in the station are narrow, and the morning rush hour is seriously congested...

This renovation will build a new Exit E on the ground to integrate Exit B1 and B2 of Line 2. At the same time, the municipal crossing passage will also have the function of entering and exiting the station. At the same time, nearly 2,000 square meters of micro park space and 750 square meters of green land landscape have been added, and 125 standardized bicycle parking spaces have been planned in an orderly manner to enhance the image of the city.

In Chongwenmen Subway Station, a new three-story underground station hall will be built to connect with the existing municipal underground street crossing passage, and the conditions for opening up with the underground of Tongren Hospital will be reserved; a new transfer hall for Line 2 and Line 5 will be built to increase transfer passages and relieve traffic jams in the station. At the transfer bottleneck point; add 4 escalators and 2 vertical ladders to realize barrier-free entry and exit and transfer functions.

*The old station can also be integrated and coordinated with the surrounding landscape*

A good subway public space must not only provide convenient and efficient traffic service capabilities during commuting peaks, but also provide dynamic, comfortable and pleasant spaces at different times and seasons. For this reason, in addition to improving the service functions of rail transit, this pilot renovation plan also strives to create a livable and attractive space.

At Caishikou Station of the subway, although the distance between D and G of the subway in the southwest direction is only 1.5 meters, they face opposite directions and the underground is not connected. It is inconvenient for passengers to enter and exit the station and it is difficult to distinguish the direction. Outside the station, bicycles are placed in a disorderly manner, occupying the entrance and exit squares and pedestrian walkways, blocking pedestrian traffic routes; the appearance of the entrance and exit is also inconsistent with the surrounding buildings, and the green space on the street corners is "fragmented", and the landscape effect is not good.

The renovation plan plans to separate the entrances and exits of the station D and G along the Shizheng Road, and realize underground connection, increase the coverage of the subway, and avoid increasing the walking distance of passengers due to wrong entrances; in terms of ground landscape, optimize the architectural form and color of the ground pavilion, and The surrounding buildings are coordinated, landscape greening and leisure space are increased, and the quality of public space at street corners is improved; in terms of traffic connection, the non-motor vehicle parking area is planned in combination with the space under the street trees to meet the parking needs of about 250 non-motor vehicles.

*Residents and passengers share the space in front of the station at different times*

Previously, the 6.5-meter-high Dafeng Pavilion at the Beihai North Station of the Metro blocked the connection between the square in front of the station on the east side and the park on the west side. This transformation will open up the subway distribution plaza and the park activity space by changing the subway wind pavilion, so that residents and passengers can share time-staggered, functional compatibility, and make intensive use of the space in front of the station. At the same time, Port B is changed from east to south to avoid the three-way intersection, increase the distribution and buffer space, and facilitate the diversion of tourist and commuter passenger flows. After the subway wind pavilion was moved to the green belt facing the street, the height was reduced from 6.5 meters to 1.2 meters. It also takes the traditional Beijing architectural form as the main outline, echoing the surrounding residential buildings.

The reporter was informed that the three projects approved this time will be the first to start construction next year, and the Chaoyangmen subway station project, which will be included in the urban public space renovation and upgrading demonstration pilot, is also accelerating the preliminary work. The Municipal Development and Reform Commission will take the implementation of the first batch of 3 integrated public space projects as the entry point to create a multi-functional, all-age-friendly, vibrant, and well-connected urban public space around the site, forming a government-coordinated, planning-first, and people's livelihood-first, Reproducible and scalable area update implementation experience with multi-participation. In the future, more old subway stations in this city will be included in the urban renewal plan.

*Source: Beijing Daily | Reporter Cao Zheng*


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## General Huo

*The Changping section of Beijing Metro Line 17 is ready for traffic by the end of next year*
2022-11-13 21:20 Beijing Daily Client
Source Title: Latest Progress! The Changping section of Beijing Metro Line 17 is ready for traffic by the end of next year
The reporter learned from the Huitian special class in Changping District, Beijing that the construction of the Changping section of Beijing Metro Line 17 is progressing in an orderly manner, and *it is expected to be completed and ready for traffic by the end of next year* . Metro Line 17 is one of the key transportation projects in the Huitian Action Plan. The *Changping section includes three stations: Future Science City South Station, Future Science City North Station, and Tiantongyuan East Station* . After the opening of the whole line, it *will form a north-south rapid rail transit connection on the east side of Tiantongyuan area.







*


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## hkskyline

* New subway line to make commuting easier *
China Daily _Excerpt_
Nov 23, 2022

Wang Nan has been looking forward to the day he could take the subway to Beijing from his home in the neighboring Hebei province, as it would make commuting more convenient. The 40-year-old lives in Yanjiao town in Hebei's Sanhe city and works in Fengtai district, Beijing.

Every day, he travels to the capital in the morning and returns home after work, which is both time-consuming and draining. Fortunately, his wish will come true in three years' time, and Wang is already excited.

According to Beijing Daily, construction has begun on a subway line linking Beijing and Hebei after a feasibility study was recently approved by the Hebei Development and Reform Commission.

Subway Line 22, the Pinggu Line, will run for 81 kilometers and pass through three capital districts — Chaoyang, Tongzhou and Pinggu — as well as Sanhe city. There will be 16 stations in Beijing and five in Hebei, including one in Wang's home city of Yanjiao. The line is scheduled for operation by the end of 2025.

It will be the first interprovincial subway line in the Beijing-Tianjin-Hebei region and is expected to play a significant role in the integrated development of the region.

More : New subway line to make commuting easier


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## CNGL

Only one opening this year, that of line 16 which gets extended from Yuyuantan Dongmen to Yushuzhuang (thus still not reaching Wanpingcheng), adding 14.8 km and 8 stations (Lize Shangwuqu not being open for now, thus preventing any interchange to line 14). The line 27 (Changping line) extension to Xitucheng, which was originally slated to open as well, has fallen back.


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