# Dubai: Then and now



## Don Omar (Aug 10, 2006)

Dubai: Then and now

BBC
News website reader Pier Pistocchi has sent in two pictures showing the changing face of Dubai in the United Arab Emirates.
This picture was taken in 1991...








...and this one showing the same view in 2005.









damn that is only 14 years and this was 2005. And we know that even more is coming to juggernaut city.


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## polako (Apr 7, 2005)

What about the change in population and GDP during the same period?


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## Bori427 (Jan 6, 2007)

Those pics are amazing,I love Dubai


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## Jasonhouse (Jul 27, 2002)

polako said:


> What about the change in population and GDP during the same period?


I imagine that's not the topic of this thread, else it would have been mentioned.
:nuts:


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## DarkLite (Dec 31, 2004)

*crazy growth for dubai. i hope it will have a sustained way of growing in the future*


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

joaquin said:


> *crazy growth for dubai. i hope it will have a sustained way of growing in the future*


I think Dubai's growth is mostly caused by foreign workers especially those coming from neighbouring middle eastern countries, south and southeast asia. Native Emiratis are still the minority in this city.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

The growth is caused by oil wealth. The foreign workers are helping with the low-end jobs in the extravagant projects spearheaded by local wealth. Behind the scenes, the source of the money is not from the poor overseas construction workers.


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## cyborg81 (Nov 15, 2004)

WANCH said:


> I *think* Dubai's growth is mostly caused by foreign workers especially those coming from neighbouring middle eastern countries, south and southeast asia. Native Emiratis are still the minority in this city.


'think' is a very funny word to get the blame off your head if your wrong and can sometimes be a very foolish word my friend.you gotta be 'affirmative' if this really is the case.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

hkskyline said:


> The growth is caused by oil wealth. The foreign workers are helping with the low-end jobs in the extravagant projects spearheaded by local wealth. Behind the scenes, the source of the money is not from the poor overseas construction workers.


I meant the population growth, my bad! 

But true of the oil being a cause for economic and development growth for the city.


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## Skyprince (May 2, 2006)

I just returned from Dubai and I like Dubai like hell !! It's an amazing city, very tourist-friendly, very nice and hospitable Emiratis and foreign expats, very world-class shopping malls ! Will never think twice once offered to work and to settle in such a great city and a great country !

Wanch, only 3% of UAE's GDP is generated by oil and that number is decreasing every year. Oman also has succeeded to reduce its dependence on oil from 50% in 1995 to only 10% now

Go, go Dubai !


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

1. That set of pictures is posted countless of times and countless threads are open with them.

2. The First picture is NOT from 1991 but somewhere in the '80s.

3. The Second picture was snapped by our fellow forum member Tom_Green when he visited Dubai in April 2005. 


As for the rest of the discussion, local Emiratis are less then 20% of the population, while half of the population is from Sub Continent (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh), then are the Arabs (mostly Lebanese etc), Filipinos, the so called Westerners (Europeans, Australians, North Americans), Iranians, Chinese (the fastest growing group) and others. All in all, more then 160 different nationalities lives in here.

Contrary to populary believe, the foreigners contributes on every social category, not only on low paying jobs and there is a huge (in numbers) middle class too, as in any other country.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

:shocked:

I've seen this picture plenty of times before, but it still amazes me.


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## ZZ-II (May 10, 2006)

someone should take that pic new but now in 2007


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## -Corey- (Jul 8, 2005)

Dubai is getting Wild..


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

WANCH said:


> I meant the population growth, my bad!
> 
> But true of the oil being a cause for economic and development growth for the city.


Population growth is a very misleading indicator of Dubai's growth story. The tide of migrant workers have not been enjoying the boom at all. Rather, many have complained of being ill-treated. But then, they're low-level workers, so they get shipped around and out like cargo anyway. I doubt they can afford to walk into all those 5-star developments to enjoy a lunch or high tea.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

hkskyline said:


> Population growth is a very misleading indicator of Dubai's growth story. The tide of migrant workers have not been enjoying the boom at all. Rather, many have complained of being ill-treated. But then, they're low-level workers, so they get shipped around and out like cargo anyway. I doubt they can afford to walk into all those 5-star developments to enjoy a lunch or high tea.


Very true about that. That's why a riot occured on the Burj's construction site.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

WANCH said:


> Very true about that. That's why a riot occured on the Burj's construction site.


The protests were the result of poor working conditions and labour protection laws. Following the Burj riot, which caused about $1 million in damage, the UAE government said it would pass a law to give laborers the right to form trade unions and bargain collectively. 

New York-based Human Rights Watch rebuked the UAE for allowing abuse of Asian workers. The rights group said the building boom in Dubai and other Emirates cities was taking place at the expense of hundreds of thousands of underpaid workers from other countries.

From an AP article dated 22 March 2006 (article on the Burj violence) :

In the Emirates, where some estimates say more than three-quarters of the population of around 5 million people are foreigners, migrants from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, China and elsewhere have provided the low-wage muscle behind one of the world's great building booms. 

Dubai, one of seven emirates making up the country, hosts some 300,000 South Asians working in the construction field alone, helping propel it from a primitive town of 20,000 five decades ago to a gridlocked metropolis of 1.5 million -- only 12 percent of whom are citizens. 

But workers complain their employers often withhold pay. They enjoy few legal protections and no minimum wage, work in the extreme heat, and many of them live in military-style desert camps. 

Angry workers in the Emirates held more than two dozen strikes over unpaid salaries last year, mainly in Dubai. The Labor Ministry responded with a crackdown on companies, helping win back pay and other benefits for some workers.


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## redstone (Nov 15, 2003)

I really hope there won't be a property oversupply there. I'm afraid the property bubble will burst (I'm not being sarcastic).


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## skyscraperboy (Nov 1, 2006)

No wonder people call Dubai as Fastest Growing City In The World!


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## cjav (Jun 24, 2006)

^^ uhm yeah because it is :lol: 

:cheers:


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## Paddington (Mar 30, 2006)

Sean in New Orleans said:


> It's not that weird...it's wealth. That culture supresses women...they must be absent and obedient to the men. More than likely, they are grossly undercounted. It's a muslim city....females are secondary humans in their society. The women that are raped in that society are sentenced to death for BEING raped.


Not really.

Dubai has more men than women because I would imagine 60-70% of the people there are migrant workers who have no rights and are made to slave away in the construction industries. These folks send most of their money back home to their families. The vast majority of them are from South Asia.

Dubai is kind of an artificial place in that respect. I think only about 15% of the people there are actual "citizens".

It's for the same reason that Las Vegas has the biggest sex imbalance in the U.S., because there are so many male illegal immigrants from Mexico working in the construction industry there. But the imbalance is no where near as big as it is in Dubai, where the migrants are the vast, overwhelming majority.


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## Don Omar (Aug 10, 2006)

ok, comments about Muslim women not being counted in a census because they are not viewed as humans is obliviously a subjective and irrelevant claim. However declaring to new users not to get "involved in discussion" defeats the purpose of this entire forum. Everyone should be allowed to participate in the discussion but also back their claims with logical arguments and cited sources.


and oh yea like the BBC is wrong about a date of a photo


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

^^ Yeah, BBC is wrong about the date becouse it was NOT BBC who took that photo. That set of pictures is floating around the Internet, and through e-mails since 2005 and if I well remember it started from this very own forum. 

BBC just reporting on something they found interesting, but people, forumers, who have lived in that part of town back then, all say the picture is from early or mid '80s.

Even me that first came here in November 1999, can say with confidence that no way what I saw back then, was done in less then 8 years.


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## DG (Sep 2, 2005)

Sean in New Orleans said:


> It's not that weird...it's wealth. That culture supresses women...they must be absent and obedient to the men. More than likely, they are grossly undercounted. It's a muslim city....females are secondary humans in their society. The women that are raped in that society are sentenced to death for BEING raped.


I am fed up with so many ignorat Americans lol


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## zachus22 (Dec 4, 2006)

WANCH said:


> I think Dubai's growth is mostly caused by foreign workers especially those coming from neighbouring middle eastern countries, south and southeast asia. Native Emiratis are still the minority in this city.


Dubai's economic boom is crazy by any standard, but I honestly don't believe it's sustainable because like Wanch said, Native emiratis are still the minority in Dubai. Most of the high paying jobs in Dubai that are facilitating this boom are occupied by ex patriots that are not natives of Dubai. Once job oppurtunities dwindle and the economy starts to take a hit, ex pats will leave as if they were never even there. Dubai's got to diversify.


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## cyborg81 (Nov 15, 2004)

Sean in New Orleans said:


> It's amazing what American dollars can do anywhere in the world.





Sean in New Orleans said:


> It's an urban paradise unfolding...it's ridiculous. I have no problems with Dubai...just give me the grit and I'll be happy. I want culture. I want meaning. Shiny glass towers are one thing, but, depth is another.





Sean in New Orleans said:


> It's not that weird...it's wealth. That culture supresses women...they must be absent and obedient to the men. More than likely, they are grossly undercounted. It's a muslim city....females are secondary humans in their society. The women that are raped in that society are sentenced to death for BEING raped.


wow i had an argument in trying to educate this troll the actual reality but i think he has a thick skin.his ass is mightily burning cos his city was destroyed by a natural disaster and he just cant withstand dubai moving forward.at the slightest mention of dubai anywahere in the forum he is promptly there to bash it.anyway i thought there must be more to it so i tried to find out what his problem was and guess what folks,it's not his fault - he suffers from *Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD)*.

Definition 

Attention-Deficit/ Hyperactivity Disorder is a biologically based disorder characterized by a combination of *inattentiveness*, distractibility, hyperactivity and *impulsive behavior*. AD/HD appears early in a child's life. It is estimated that 3-to-5 percent of school-age children are diagnosed with AD/HD and it is diagnosed more often in boys than in girls. In addition, more than half the children diagnosed with AD/HD continue to have symptoms during the adolescent years and into adulthood. Individuals with AD/HD characteristics have difficulty across multiple settings including home, school and peer relationships. AD/HD children do not do well at school or even fail, despite normal and above normal intelligence. They have difficulty sitting still and paying attention in class. They experience peer rejection and engage in a broad array of disruptive behaviors. If left untreated, AD/HD has been shown to have long-term adverse affects on academic performance, vocational success and social-emotional development. As they grow older, children with untreated AD/HD are more prone to drug abuse, antisocial behavior and injuries of all sort.

Symptoms 
According to the most recent version of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual-IV, Text Revision (DSM-IV-TR, 2000), three types of Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder have been established in accordance with which symptoms are the strongest in the individual. The types and symptoms are as follows: 

*Impulsive symptoms:*

*Unable to curb immediate reactions or think before acting* 
Blurts out answers to questions or _*make inappropriate comment*_ 
Running into the street without looking 
Unable to wait or take turns in games 
Grabs from others or hits when upset 

the whole definition can be found here http://psychologytoday.com/conditions/addhd.html

sean,mate i sympathise with you.all the best.

cyborg


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

zachus22 said:


> Dubai's economic boom is crazy by any standard, but I honestly don't believe it's sustainable because like Wanch said, Native emiratis are still the minority in Dubai. Most of the high paying jobs in Dubai that are facilitating this boom are occupied by ex patriots that are not natives of Dubai. Once job oppurtunities dwindle and the economy starts to take a hit, ex pats will leave as if they were never even there. Dubai's got to diversify.


Dubai's growth is local in origin, and not fuelled by foreign multinationals. FDI is nowhere close to the value of projects under construction, and it is the *local* firms that are expanding internationally, such as in the aviation and maritime sectors. As long as the oil is still there, it will continue. In fact, Dubai's growth story is quite unlike the rest of the developing world. It's from inside out, not from outside in.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

zachus22 said:


> Dubai's economic boom is crazy by any standard, but I honestly don't believe it's sustainable because like Wanch said, Native emiratis are still the minority in Dubai. Most of the high paying jobs in Dubai that are facilitating this boom are occupied by ex patriots that are not natives of Dubai. Once job oppurtunities dwindle and the economy starts to take a hit, ex pats will leave as if they were never even there. Dubai's got to diversify.


Diversifying is what Dubai is doing, they aren't building all these projects for no reason, they are aware of the this issue, and have been for a while now. 

Also, I agree with what hkskyline said. It isn't American or other firms making these projects, it's Emiratis. They just need more outside manpower to do the work, and people are very eager to work there. Dubai isn't like other countries in the overall region, they aren't as tied to foreign investment to survive, they already have the money!

Oil only makes ~6% of Dubai's GDP now, honestly, it's probably the best example of a economy that successfully weaned itself off oil without needing a economic crash to make this change.


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## cyborg81 (Nov 15, 2004)

hkskyline said:


> Dubai's growth is local in origin, and not fuelled by foreign multinationals. FDI is nowhere close to the value of projects under construction, and it is the *local* firms that are expanding internationally, such as in the aviation and maritime sectors. As long as the oil is still there, it will continue. In fact, Dubai's growth story is quite unlike the rest of the developing world. It's from inside out, not from outside in.


very well said!


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## cncity (Feb 16, 2005)

All the new constructions going around in Dubai is gr8 , no doubt. But how many people are actually going to live there is the question. Dubai will constantly have to attract tourists with something in order to fill those tall hotel rooms as the actual people visiting dubai for business is minimal compared to other cities around the world. 

Most of those residential projects might be vacant for most part of the year.
I know a friend whose dad has bought 3 apartments in the existing buildings there, and when i asked who lives there. She said mostly no-one, they sometimes rent it out, but most of the time they are empty. They hardly go there for 1 month in a year during Dubai festival and then they r out of the city. A lot of people just buy property there for investment, but rarely live there.


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## Saigoneseguy (Mar 6, 2005)

All the bashings are nonsense, this is a city of Men and created as a result of recent socioeconomic/political situation of the whole world. For me it's an interesting story of development, as its sheer size has already stunned/ irritated a couple of ppl. so let's watch together....


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

How can a Skyscraper fan not like Dubai?


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

hkskyline said:


> Dubai's growth is local in origin, and not fuelled by foreign multinationals. FDI is nowhere close to the value of projects under construction, and it is the *local* firms that are expanding internationally, such as in the aviation and maritime sectors. As long as the oil is still there, it will continue. In fact, Dubai's growth story is quite unlike the rest of the developing world. It's from inside out, not from outside in.


One major help is the government is also funding some of these projects.

If the oil disappears, Dubai's economy will shift to tourism. But besides that I think the city will also concentrate in other services like banking and finance. There's also real estate and it's massive projects will attract those worldwide. 

Like I said before Dubai is positioning itself to be the centre of The Middle East just like NY, London or HK is doing to it's own regions.


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## DarkLite (Dec 31, 2004)

rotten777 said:


> How can a Skyscraper fan not like Dubai?


*because its fake*


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## cyborg81 (Nov 15, 2004)

joaquin said:


> *because its fake*


^^ when u r surrounded by so many fake things everything looks fake.:lol:


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

WANCH said:


> One major help is the government is also funding some of these projects.
> 
> If the oil disappears, Dubai's economy will shift to tourism. But besides that I think the city will also concentrate in other services like banking and finance. There's also real estate and it's massive projects will attract those worldwide.
> 
> Like I said before Dubai is positioning itself to be the centre of The Middle East just like NY, London or HK is doing to it's own regions.


Dubai's economic prowess is not just tourism alone. The infrastructure is not yet complete and there aren't enough attractions to make it appealing. The fact that it is a long haul flight from both Europe and East Asia doesn't help either. The key to Dubai's future is cashing in on its external investments, hence they are aggressively expanding through acquisitions overseas (back to the aviation and maritime sectors, for example).


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## diz (Nov 1, 2005)

^^ A documentary stated that when Dubai eventually runs out on money, it will depend on tourism.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

diz said:


> ^^ A documentary stated that when Dubai eventually runs out on money, it will depend on tourism.


Tourism alone will *not* help Dubai's economy once the black gold runs out.


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## Don Omar (Aug 10, 2006)

what do you mean run out of money? This is not a zero sum game. Dubai has a great location between 'old money' Europe and booming Chinese, Indian, and other Asian markets. This geography will provide not only long turn growth for tourism, but more developed economic services like banking.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

joaquin said:


> *because its fake*


How is it fake? :doh: 

I don't understand this thought coming out of Skyscrapercity of all places (most users here eat it up). The projects going on there are impressive and crazy. They are literally building skyscrapers in the desert like SimCity, how can you not like that? 

I guess you have to visit it to understand. I went there 3 times, mostly to visit there and Abu Dhabi while transferring to fly to Somalia or Yemen. Everytime I went there, it was different than the last time. It's like the entire city is literally under construction. I literally was dropping my jaw when I was on Sheikh Zayed Road.

...and don't tell me you don't like Burj Dubai next.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

diz said:


> ^^ A documentary stated that when Dubai eventually runs out on money, it will depend on tourism.


That documentary should get its facts straight, because oil production is not a major driver of growth. Rather, oil wealth is, and they have enough billions to make them influential globally already.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Dubai is not the only Middle Eastern city undergoing rapid urban developments but also it's neighbouring cities like Doha in Qatar, Kuwait City and Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

WANCH said:


> Dubai is not the only Middle Eastern city undergoing rapid urban developments but also it's neighbouring cities like Doha in Qatar, Kuwait City and Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.


Dubai has a significant head start. The others are trying to follow along the footsteps but Dubai's firms have really gone international with a number of major acquisitions, even rumbling the US government into condemnation.


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## sun&sun (Dec 26, 2004)

I think you can take a picture today and in one year you can take one from the same angle and can open a "then and now" topic too! This city changes so quicky!!


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

hkskyline said:


> Dubai has a significant head start. The others are trying to follow along the footsteps but Dubai's firms have really gone international with a number of major acquisitions, even rumbling the US government into condemnation.


Yup Dubai is the leader in this region. 

But what are some Dubai firms are gone international?


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

WANCH said:


> Yup Dubai is the leader in this region.
> 
> But what are some Dubai firms are gone international?


Emirates and their ports firm. Check out the maritime section. There are a lot of articles about the political storm their expansion to the US got, and the resulting forced divesture to compromise with government concerns.


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

Another one on the series:

*1997*









(_scan from a 1999-2000 Hotel broschure_)

*2007*









(_soennecken_)


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## XCRunner (Nov 19, 2005)

hkskyline said:


> The growth is caused by oil wealth. The foreign workers are helping with the low-end jobs in the extravagant projects spearheaded by local wealth. Behind the scenes, the source of the money is not from the poor overseas construction workers.


Oil is the main sector of the economy in MOST of the UAE's Emirates, but not in Dubai, where oil income accounts for only 6% of GDP.


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## smussuw (Feb 1, 2004)

qwazy said:


> Skyprince, Oil is still the biggest industry in the UAE and it accounts for i dunno 60% of the UAE's GDP roughly, not 3%.
> 
> Oil only accounts for 3% of Dubai's GDP


Its 38% for the whole country.


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## smussuw (Feb 1, 2004)

WANCH said:


> Yup Dubai is the leader in this region.
> 
> But what are some Dubai firms are gone international?


DP World: the third biggest port operator in the world www.dpworld.ae, Emirates Airline: One of the fastest airlines and soon to be the biggest in the world www.emirates.com, Emaar: One of the biggest development companies in the world in the market rank www.emaar.ae, Dubai Holding: the biggest company in assets rank in the middle east (excluding oil companies) www.dubaiholding.ae ... etc


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

AltinD said:


> *2007*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, imagine that view in 2017 :shocked:


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

smussuw said:


> DP World: the third biggest port operator in the world www.dpworld.ae, Emirates Airline: One of the fastest airlines and soon to be the biggest in the world www.emirates.com, Emaar: One of the biggest development companies in the world in the market rank www.emaar.ae, Dubai Holding: the biggest company in assets rank in the middle east (excluding oil companies) www.dubaiholding.ae ... etc


I've heard of Emirates Airline and it's one of the few 5 star rated airlines. 

Other than the developments and high-rises, I'm looking forward to see Dubai's metro system which I think is going to be the first one in The Middle East other than the one in Cairo and Haifa. 

A little off topic but my cousins in the Philippines have friends working in Dubai and they told that there are alot of Filipinos there.


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## montesky (Mar 21, 2006)

AltinD said:


> Another one on the series:
> 
> *1997*
> 
> ...


:eek2: :eek2: :eek2:


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

WANCH said:


> A little off topic but my cousins in the Philippines have friends working in Dubai and they told that there are alot of Filipinos there.


Yes the Filipino comunity in Dubai is very big.

There are some 200,000 Filipinos (and Filipinas) in the UAE. For sure more then 100,000 are Dubai residents, not counting thousands and thousands more on visit visas hoping to find a job.


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## smussuw (Feb 1, 2004)

^^ I think they are about 2-5% of the work force.


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## wcgokul (Dec 27, 2005)

AltinD said:


> Another one on the series:
> 
> *1997*
> 
> ...


holy **** !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Rahmani (Jun 14, 2006)

WANCH said:


> Other than the developments and high-rises, I'm looking forward to see Dubai's metro system which I think is going to be the first one in The Middle East other than the one in Cairo and Haifa.


Iran has Metro










http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=221083


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

AltinD said:


> *1997*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ah... the good old days


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

Don Omar said:


> This picture was taken in 1991...




just to clarify - like Altind says, *this pic was not taken in 1991.* I grew up in the building located on the middle of that road. it is single building in that picture, but a twin was built sometime after the original was built. I moved in to that building in 1992, and the twin had already been around for about 5 years. further more, the Daddabhai building had not even been built yet. This picture was definitely taken in the 1980s. probably around 1985. to be fair tho, there was practically no development along the road til about 1992-3.


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## www.sercan.de (Aug 10, 2003)

in this pic the old building/tower looks like a rendering/proposed project


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