# Europe's 3rd city.



## Zarkon (Dec 22, 2004)

LuckyLuke said:


> Berlin (most important and interessting of all) then Rome and Madrid
> 
> Why is Milan in the poll?


Milan is one of the most important cities in Europe. Don't forget it is an alpha city


----------



## gruber (Jun 11, 2004)

LuckyLuke said:


> Berlin (most important and interessting of all) then Rome and Madrid
> 
> Why is Milan in the poll?


cause Milan is the third biggest metropolitan area of the UE, is one of the most important cities of the world for business, economy, fashion, and banking, btw is also the hearth of the 3th richest region of Europe.

*Most important cities of the world:*

Finance and Business Services
Power and Influence (or "Command and Control," composed of government and governmental agencies)
Creative and Cultural Industries 
Tourism, including both business and leisure tourism. 

Cities are ordered in terms of world city-ness values ranging from 1- 12.

A. ALPHA WORLD CITIES  

12: London, Paris, New York, Tokyo 
10: Chicago, Frankfurt, Hong Kong, Los Angeles, *Milan*, Singapore

B. BETA WORLD CITIES  

9: San Francisco, Sydney, Toronto, Zurich 
8: Brussels, Madrid, Mexico City, Sao Paulo 
7: Moscow, Seoul 

C. GAMMA WORLD CITIES  

6: Amsterdam, Boston, Caracas, Dallas, Dusseldorf, Geneva, Houston, Jakarta, Johannesburg, Melbourne, Osaka, Prague, Santiago, Taipei, Washington 
5: Bangkok, Beijing, _Rome_, Stockholm, Warsaw 
4: Atlanta, Barcelona, _Berlin_, Buenos Aires, Budapest, Copenhagen, Hamburg, Istanbul, Kuala Lumpur, Manila, Miami, Minneapolis, Montreal, Munich, Shanghai

(1) Global cities (Alpha cities) typically with 5 million or more people within their administrative boundaries and up to 20 million within their surrounding regions.
(2) Sub-global cities (Beta and Gamma cities), typically with 1-5 million people and up to perhaps 10 million in their regions.
(3) Regional (Christaller's Landstadt) (population 250,000-1 million).
(4) Provincial (Christaller's Provinzstadt) (population 100,000-250,000).



Frankfurth is the only city that can compete with Milan.
but if you talk about the beauty of cities, my vote is for Roma and then to Madrid.


----------



## willo (Jan 3, 2005)

from that cities you have put i can't decide between Madrid and berlin. both very similar in power.

but i will go with madrid because the economical power of the city is superior


----------



## Butcher (Dec 13, 2004)

Madrid- I put other because I didn't see the Madrid option.


----------



## MikeHunt (Nov 28, 2004)

Rome followed by the following tied for 4th best:

Madrid, Berlin and Barcelona.


----------



## micro (Mar 13, 2005)

gruber said:


> ... Cities are ordered in terms of world city-ness values ranging from 1- 12.
> 
> A. ALPHA WORLD CITIES  ...


You didn't provide a reference source for what you wrote! I found the source: http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/citylist.html and the underlying study http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/rb/rb5.html .

It is a ranking based on economics alone and based on partly outdated data. Zurich is a small city with a lot of banks but doesn't have the quality of life I would expect of a 'world city'. Berlin on the other hand was split in half and surrounded by the Wall until 1990 and has changed a lot since then so I think it's only in the Gamma group because the data is outdated and should belong to the Beta group by now.


----------



## Bitxofo (Feb 3, 2005)

Barcelona!!


----------



## gruber (Jun 11, 2004)

micro said:


> You didn't provide a reference source for what you wrote! I found the source: http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/citylist.html and the underlying study http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/rb/rb5.html .
> 
> It is a ranking based on economics alone and based on partly outdated data. Zurich is a small city with a lot of banks but doesn't have the quality of life I would expect of a 'world city'. Berlin on the other hand was split in half and surrounded by the Wall until 1990 and has changed a lot since then so I think it's only in the Gamma group because the data is outdated and should belong to the Beta group by now.



NOT TRUE.

Global city
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

London 
New York City 
Paris 
TokyoA global city (also known as a world city or world-class city) is a city with a somewhat arbitrary set of traits, some of which are listed below. In recent years, the term has become increasingly familiar, due to the rise of globalization (i.e. global finance, worldwide communications and travel). These cities are generally seen as meeting most, or at least some, of the following criteria:

International familiarity (or "first-name" familiarity – one would say "Paris", not "Paris, France"). 
Active influence and participation in international events and world affairs (for example, New York is home to the United Nations headquarters and Brussels is home to NATO headquarters). 
A fairly large population (the center of a metropolitan area with a population of at least one million, typically several million). 
A major international airport that serves as an established hub for several international airlines. 
An advanced transportation system that includes several freeways and/or a large mass transit network offering multiple modes of transportation (subway, light rail, regional rail, ferry, or bus). 
In the West, several international cultures and communities (such as a Chinatown, a Little Italy, or other immigrant communities). In other parts of the world, such as Asia, cities which attract large foreign businesses, for example Shanghai and Hong Kong. 
International financial institutions, law firms, corporate headquarters (especially conglomerates), and stock exchanges that have influence over the world economy. 
Advanced communications infrastructure that modern trans-national corporations rely on, such as fiberoptics, Wi-Fi networks, cellular phone services, and other high-speed lines of communications. 
World-renowned cultural institutions, such as museums and universities. 
A lively cultural scene, including film festivals, premieres, a thriving music or theatre scene; an Orchestra, an opera company, art galleries, and street performers. 
Several powerful and influential media outlets with an international reach are based in world cities, such as the BBC, The New York Times, CNN, Le Monde, The Chicago Tribune, and The Times.

In the Western World, New York, London, and Paris have been traditionally considered the "big three" world cities – not incidentally, they also serve as symbols of global capitalism. Tokyo can also be added to the top of the list, due to the influence of Japan in world economic affairs. However, many people have a personal list, and any two lists are likely to differ based on cultural background, values, and experience.

In certain developed countries, especially the United States, the rise of suburbia and the ongoing migration of manufacturing jobs to developing countries has led to significant urban decay. Therefore, to boost urban regeneration, tourism, and revenue, the goal of building a world-class city has recently become an obsession with the governments of some mid-size cities and their constituents.

The phenomenon of world-city building, albeit with slightly more success, has also been observed in Sydney, Buenos Aires, Frankfurt, and Toronto: each of these cities has emerged as large and influential.

[edit]
GaWC Inventory of World Cities

Hong Kong 
Los Angeles 
Chicago 
Frankfurt 
SingaporeAn influential attempt to define and categorise world cities was made by the Globalization and World Cities Study Group & Network (GaWC) [1], based primarily at Loughborough University in England. The roster was outlined in the GaWC Research Bulletin 5 [2] and ranked cities based on their provision of "advanced producer services" such as accountancy, advertising, banking/finance and law. The Inventory identifies three levels of world city, termed Alpha, Beta and Gamma for their relative influence. Each level contains two or three sub-ranks. There is also a fourth level of cities that show potential to become world cities in the future. This classification is not yet authoritative, but is certainly useful as a starting point for discussion.

The Alpha (most influential) world cities were divided into two sub-ranks:

12 points: London, New York City, Paris, Tokyo 
10 points: Chicago, Frankfurt, Hong Kong, Los Angeles, Milan, Singapore, 
The Beta (major) World Cities are:

9 Points: San Francisco, Sydney, Toronto, Zurich 
8 Points: Brussels, Madrid, Mexico City, São Paulo 
7 Points: Moscow, Seoul 
The Gamma (minor) World Cities are:

6 Points: Amsterdam, Boston, Caracas, Dallas, Düsseldorf, Geneva, Houston, Jakarta, Johannesburg, Melbourne, Montreal, Osaka, Prague, Santiago, Taipei, Washington, DC 
5 Points: Bangkok, Beijing, Rome, Stockholm, Warsaw 
4 Points: Atlanta, Barcelona, Berlin, Budapest, Buenos Aires, Copenhagen, Hamburg, Istanbul, Kuala Lumpur, Manila, Miami, Minneapolis, Munich, Shanghai 
There is also a category for cities showing strong evidence of becoming world cities, these are:

3 Points: Athens, Auckland, Dublin, Helsinki, Luxembourg, Lyon, Mumbai, New Delhi, Philadelphia, Rio de Janeiro, Tel Aviv, Vienna 
and cities showing some evidence:

2 Points: Abu Dhabi, Almaty, Birmingham, England, Bogotá, Bratislava, Brisbane, Bucharest, Cairo, Cleveland, Cologne, Detroit, Dubai, Ho Chi Minh City, Kiev, Lima, Lisbon, Manchester, Montevideo, Oslo, Riyadh, Rotterdam, Seattle, Stuttgart, The Hague, Vancouver 
and cities displaying minimal evidence:

1 Point: Adelaide, Antwerp, Arhus, Baltimore, Bangalore, Bologna, Brasilia, Calgary, Cape Town, Colombo, Columbus, Dresden, Edinburgh, Genoa, Glasgow, Gothenburg, Guangzhou, Hanoi, Kansas City, Leeds, Lille, Marseille, Richmond, Saint Petersburg, Russia, Tashkent, Tehran, Tijuana, Turin, Utrecht, Wellington 
There is a schematic map of the GaWC cities at their website, [3], which shows clearly that the great majority of their defined cities lie in the Northern Hemisphere. The GaWC is a somewhat subjective ranking, as is any other, but the top four listed cities at least match those commonly considered the major world cities.

[edit]
External Links
"'U.S. Cities in the 'World City Network'" by Peter J. Taylor and Robert E. Lang of the Brookings Institution 
Key Findings 
Full Report in PDF Format 
Repository of Links Relating to Urban Places 
World Cities article by Jennifer Curtis of Charles Sturt University 
The World-System’s City System: A Research Agenda by Jeffrey Kentor and Michael Timberlake of the University of Utah and David Smith of University of California, Irvine 
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_city"


----------



## micro (Mar 13, 2005)

@gruber
Sorry, but I think you're missing something. Wikipedia has a good generic definition of what world cities are. But the list at the end of the article serves as an example and was copied from GaWC and has nothing to do with Wikipedia's definition above. The GaWC list focuses on "'advanced producer services' such as accountancy, advertising, banking/finance and law".

So Zurich for instance may be a world city according to GaWC because there are lots of banks, but according to Wikipedia's definition it would be very difficult to call Zurich a world city because 
- it has only 400,000 inhabitants, which is tiny compared to the "typically several million" required,
- the airport is not a "major hub" (see World's busiest airports)
- it doesn't have an advanced transportation system (only trams, not even a subway).


----------



## brooklynprospect (Apr 27, 2005)

Moscow. But since Moscow is not respected on this forum, I'll choose Berlin as my 2nd choice.

In the future, Istanbul will present more of a rival.


----------



## -Corey- (Jul 8, 2005)

I think is Madrid or probably is on the second place. who know?


----------



## DXB (Nov 12, 2004)

Roma, the greatest


----------



## simadon (Sep 16, 2004)

> well i think it's between Madrid and Berlin (Italy is too much polarized between Milan and Rome to chose one of them)


Agreed about Rome.

I would say Berlin. Its prominence just reaches further than Madrid. Its the centre of N.,C. and E. Europe.


----------



## jmancuso (Jan 9, 2003)

corby


----------



## philadweller (Oct 30, 2003)

Madrid, Berlin or Milan..but I am leaning towards Madrid on this.


----------



## london-b (Jul 31, 2004)

jmancuso said:


> corby


I live not far from there, it is amazing, a jem of Europe I feel


----------



## london-b (Jul 31, 2004)

BEDFORD!!!!!!


----------



## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

Berlin, in the heart of Europe, with lots of connections into the Central Asian countries to Far Eastern countries the most important junction between Europe and Turkey, a keyrole in East-West relations, the capital of Europe's second most populous country and Europe's hugest economy. It is a cultural and event capital, fashion, trend-setting and modern and more and more modernizing.


----------



## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

gruber said:


> NOT TRUE.
> 
> Global city
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
> ...


But in realtion to culture producing and media, Berlin is an Alpha World City!


----------



## staff (Oct 23, 2004)

I voted Moscow. Historically a very important city, and in the futre as well.


----------



## Knopfleratu (May 20, 2004)

carfentanyl said:


> I'm *NOT* gonna say that Rotterdam should be in the list, but have you ever been there and what exactly do you know of it?
> 
> In a lot of indexes the Rotterdam region comes before the Barcelona region, for example when it comes to GDP per capita, Regional Prosperity, innovation index, innovation scoreboard, level of education per capita, employment rate.
> 
> ...


I think Rotterdam is a big city.... what´s the problem????? it´s not a joke....


Ah! sorry.... i wanna say :cheers: , and not: :weirdo: ... sorry for mistake smilie in my post about Rotterdam.


----------



## Knopfleratu (May 20, 2004)

carfentanyl said:


> ^ Why would Rome be more cultural? Because of the remainings of the Roman empire?
> 
> Apart from that I don't see any reasons. I believe Madrid offers a lot more historical masterpieces than Rome.
> 
> Ofcourse the renaissance originated in Italy just like great artists like Michelangelo and Da Vinci, but they were not Roman.


"I believe Madrid offers a lot more historical masterpieces than Rome..." ..............really???

Madrid needs museums..... The city of Roma is a big museum..... it´s a big difference.


----------



## jesarm (Dec 26, 2004)

I think after Paris and London, If I have to choose between the poll cities, in my opinion goes: 

3 Madrid. bridge between Europe and South America and Central America. 
Spanish is by far the second language in North America near 40 million of persons without count Mexico, and Madrid is growing high in the last year and in future.

4 Berlin capital of Germany the most important and influential country of EU

5 Rome the most beuty and cultural city in Europe in my opinion

6 Moscow capital of the Biggest Size and inhabitants country in Europe but no the richest by far


----------



## traveler (Jun 12, 2005)

Berlin for me.


----------



## Kaene (Jun 7, 2005)

B E R L I N 

The center of Europe and the capital
of the biggest country in it´s Union:




























After that great city it´s 

S T O C K H O L M


----------



## DonQui (Jan 10, 2005)

Again what about Berlin aside from being a capital makes it Europe's third city? it lacks the level of culture (such as top world museums) as well as economy (economic center is in Frankfurt). Maybe if you combined Berlin with Frankfurt, but otherise, Berlin does not even come close to being Europe's third city.


----------



## CAESARS-PALACe (Jul 29, 2004)

> And Rome is poorer, its world influence is smaller...



Rome is not poorer than Madrid,it has less inhabitants but it's GDP per capita is bigger :

2001 GDP per capita :
http://www.citymayors.com/business/eurocities_gdp.html

2004 GDP per capita Madrid : €24,392
http://www.fdimagazine.com/news/fullstory.php/aid/1044/Madrid_puts_fDi_at_the_centre.html

2004 GDP per capita Rome : €29,400
http://www.jobtel.it/rubriche/dossier/ArchivioDossier/Ricchezza_Italia_Censis.aspx#1


.


----------



## traveler (Jun 12, 2005)

Berlin is a better looking city.


----------



## mdet04 (Jun 25, 2004)

CAESARS-PALACe said:


> Rome is not poorer than Madrid,it has less inhabitants but it's GDP per capita is bigger :
> 
> 2001 GDP per capita :
> http://www.citymayors.com/business/eurocities_gdp.html
> ...


Excuse-me but my english isn't very good and I don't explain me very well. What I wanted to say it's that Madrid has more influence in the economic plan... In Madrid there are the biggest spanish companies: Telefónica, Repsol, Iberia, Banco Santander, BBVA...
In Italy in terms of economy the most important city is Milano


----------



## CAESARS-PALACe (Jul 29, 2004)

> In Italy in terms of economy the most important city is Milano


Rome's GDP is bigger than Milan's GDP since 2004 :eat: :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan


of course Milan is smaller so it's GDP per capita is much higher but the fact remains that Rome represents 6,5 % of the Italian GDP and Milan 4,8 %.


.


----------



## Kaene (Jun 7, 2005)

DonQui said:


> What about Berlin aside from being a capital makes it Europe's third city? It lacks the level of culture (such as top world museums)


You obviously don´t know anything about Berlin.
It´s a true city of culture and has 
some amazing museums.
It´s also the third biggest city in the EU,
the biggest in Germany, a place where
east and west meet and is located 
right in the heart and center of 
Europe.
Berlin is unique in so many ways.
Definitely a world class city.


----------



## Kaene (Jun 7, 2005)

Italy have Rome and Milan.
Spain have Madrid and Barcelona.
Germany have Berlin, Hamburg, Munich, 
Cologne and Frankfurt!
Nuff said.


----------



## cellete (May 19, 2004)

Berlin


----------



## Kaene (Jun 7, 2005)

That´s right kid!


----------



## SHiRO (Feb 7, 2003)

I've cleaned up this thread, lets keep it clean.
Stick to English and don't swamp it with pictures...

And Anagorn..., quite the mindless Berlin/Germany boosting...


----------



## eievar (Nov 4, 2004)

SHiRO said:


> I've cleaned up this thread, lets keep it clean.
> Stick to English and don't swamp it with pictures...
> 
> And Anagorn..., quite the mindless Berlin/Germany boosting...


it was not necesary, i think the discussion was finished, but thanks anyway


----------



## DrJekyll (Sep 23, 2004)

I think I ve voted for Milano


----------



## Siopao (Jun 22, 2005)

Rome! then milan


----------



## _tictac_ (Jan 6, 2003)

Berlin.


----------



## _tictac_ (Jan 6, 2003)

Folks, get real.
Madrid is a wonderful city with lots to offer, but honestly, it is not the third city of Europe, atleast not in this millennium.

Yes, I do realize people on this board may have a different opinion as opposed to people in general.
Just pointing out that the majority of people do not see Madrid as the third city of Europe, nor fourth.


----------



## frankiego (Jun 15, 2005)

I had to change my mind.....
Ceasar Palace is right !
For the tird European city , i can only thnk on Rome or Milan


----------



## mdet04 (Jun 25, 2004)

SHiRO said:


> I've cleaned up this thread, lets keep it clean.
> Stick to English and don't swamp it with pictures...
> 
> And Anagorn..., quite the mindless Berlin/Germany boosting...


I don't understand why we can't post photos in this thread!! Please answer me!!


----------



## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

Knopfleratu said:


> I speak about ROMA and MOSCOW not Barcelona.
> 
> But three questions :
> 
> ...


Well when you make stupid remarks such as ''Madrid is ugly''.What do you want me to say?


----------



## Mr Bricks (May 6, 2005)

Berlin....i think it´s a underrated city.


----------



## Kaene (Jun 7, 2005)

So there we have it folks.
Berlin has received the most votes of all 
and is officially Europe´s third city.
Of course we knew that all along.
It´s settled then.


----------



## Knopfleratu (May 20, 2004)

Peshu:

"Spanish when i was in Barcelona and all i got was answers in Catalan makes me think that many Catalans are quite rude.And whatever.I realise that Catalan is the first official language.Yet in foreign countries most people learn Spanish rather then Catalan for obvious reasons.And since Catalans still speak Spanish,i think it's rather rude to answer in a language i can't understand.Oh and please show me the solid proove of Real Madrid being the team of Franch that's right.Franco bought out the Spanish F.A, U.E.F.A and even the united nations. Franco was short but he was a black belt in karate ..."


....I do not have time to explain the injustices of franco with Barça (Di Stefano was "stolen" to Barça,arrested players,executed presidents, etc.. ) and Catalans... ( a lot of time ) this forum is not for it ... and your only excuse to explain: "Catalans are quite rude" is as that they have another language "CATALAN" (It is the same thing that say a spanish fascist)... You you do not believe all "urban legends",two languages coexist in Catalonia: Castilian(Spanish) & Catalan....if you know one of the two already is sufficient,in catalonia all the people knows Spanish...the one who says the opposite: this one lying

End the topic.


----------



## LosAngeles1984 (May 26, 2005)

Knopfleratu said:


> "I believe Madrid offers a lot more historical masterpieces than Rome..." ..............really???
> 
> Madrid needs museums..... The city of Roma is a big museum..... it´s a big difference.


 Para decir estupideces mejor te podrias callar...


----------



## LosAngeles1984 (May 26, 2005)

y no solo me refiero a ese comentario sino a todos los demas


----------



## Knopfleratu (May 20, 2004)

LosAngeles1984 said:


> y no solo me refiero a ese comentario sino a todos los demas


Stupid commentaries??? (the truth offends)


----------



## Storeman (Jun 24, 2005)

economical --> Frankfurt/Milano
political --> Berlin
historical --> Rome/Athens/Madrid/Istanbul
cultural --> Berlin/Rome/Barcelona/Madrid/Munich/.............
traffic --> Amsterdam/Rotterdam/Frankfurt
ambience --> ? (every city has a special and unique amience in Europe)


----------



## JCarlos (Apr 3, 2004)

hey kids! don't worry about knopfleratu. He lives away from reality in his own world created by his fanatic mind, where Madrid is some kind of very very evil town, like Mordor or something like that, where franco scaped from dead 30 years ago, and still living to avoid f.c.barcelona wins champions league. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

JCarlos said:


> hey kids! don't worry about knopfleratu. He lives away from reality in his own world created by his fanatic mind, where Madrid is some kind of very very evil town, like Mordor or something like that, where franco scaped from dead 30 years ago, and still living to avoid f.c.barcelona wins champions league. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:



Who knows maybe Franco was Di Stefano himself :hahaha:


----------



## JCarlos (Apr 3, 2004)

Peshu said:


> Who knows maybe Franco was Di Stefano himself :hahaha:


Oh, is true!!
how I never noticed that before???










































All of them are the same guy!!! :rofl:


----------



## eievar (Nov 4, 2004)

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 
:master:


----------



## Knopfleratu (May 20, 2004)

eievar said:


> :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
> :master:


Ok men... madrid has more importance historical & cultural what Roma,more world influence that Moscow, and franco was Mother Teresa de Calcuta.... Of course i´m Spiderman.....


Happy each one in his ignorance...


The laugh is the resource of the ignorance....


----------



## JCarlos (Apr 3, 2004)

Knopfleratu said:


> Happy each one in his ignorance...


Yeahhh be very veryyyyyy happy :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## willo (Jan 3, 2005)

:deadthrea :lock: :lock:


----------



## jesarm (Dec 26, 2004)

This guy is really a joke..........,He should be an actor who represented a comic paper from "camara indiscreta"program, I think he can´t be real, so much to be true


----------



## Cobain (Sep 11, 2002)

Have we got trolls in this bloody thread or what?


----------



## frankiego (Jun 15, 2005)

This is the last year Spain gets money from EU.
I`d like to see , for the next couple of years , how Spain will grow up with no European founds , including their megacities .


----------



## eievar (Nov 4, 2004)

Knopfleratu said:


> Sure...
> 
> Madrid is not a New York, not London, not Tokyo but the majority of persons from Madrid believe that if, and they believe that it is better.
> 
> ...


that's simply... FALSE. one word is enough to answer your lies...

PS: you have to be acting... no-one can say such ridiculous things talking serious... :bash:


----------



## willo (Jan 3, 2005)

frankiego said:


> Milan is bigger than Madrid .
> The point is wich is number 3 , not by number of hinabitants .
> Rome ( wich i prefer for number 3 ) has much more international recognition , world`s famous museums , is 2nd only to Paris in number of tourist and has one of the most high GDP in Europe



milan is in the fight with madrid and berlin, but rome definitely not.
rome is more a turistic and museum place. milan is more important in italy


----------



## mdet04 (Jun 25, 2004)

mdet04 said:


> I don't understand why we can't post photos in this thread!! Please answer me!!



@Shiro: I have not recieved an answer to my question. I repeat it: why can't we post photos in this thread? why has it been deleted one post of mine with photos in Madrid? why hasn't it been deleted the post number 85 with pics from Berlin?

Thank you


----------



## pricemazda (Feb 14, 2004)

What is interesting here is the decline of Rome. Rome now is struggling to keep up with Madrid and Berlin let alone London and Paris. Rome is turning into a backwater.


----------



## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

Knopfleratu said:


> Sure...
> 
> Madrid is not a New York, not London, not Tokyo but the majority of persons from Madrid believe that if, and they believe that it is better.
> 
> ...


You should really travel a bit.I've been to cities that to me seem insignificant yet their citizens promote it as the center of the world.And guess what?Bullshit like that actually works.That is why certain cities are over-rated.And certain other ones are under-rated.Marketing=Bullshiting.If local citizens don't promote their own cities.Who the hell will.
Mcdonalds is the biggest food chain in the world due to bullshiting marketing.
I mean,that really is an ultimate example.
Anyway.I'm sure Barcelonans would also regard their city as the center of the world.It's really no big deal anyway.So chill out dude.


----------



## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

pricemazda said:


> What is interesting here is the decline of Rome. Rome now is struggling to keep up with Madrid and Berlin let alone London and Paris. Rome is turning into a backwater.


That is surprising.And to think that Rome was once the center of the world.


----------



## Indexi (Feb 13, 2005)

pricemazda said:


> This really is a race between Berlin, Madrid and Rome, but i am inclined to even exclude Rome from this discussion and just Madrid or Berlin.


Why Berlin and Madrid, there are greater cities then those in Europe..


----------



## Giorgio (Oct 9, 2004)

id say madrid, then Berlin, then Athens. 

Athens is there because im bias but mainly because it is Europes first real city.


----------



## Skylandman (Nov 7, 2002)

Knopfleratu said:


> Sure...
> 
> Madrid is not a New York, not London, not Tokyo but the majority of persons from Madrid believe that if, and they believe that it is better.
> 
> ...



can you provide us just one single link to any Madrid based media article backing your words or are you just trolling around?


----------



## Zarkon (Dec 22, 2004)

pricemazda said:


> What is interesting here is the decline of Rome. Rome now is struggling to keep up with Madrid and Berlin let alone London and Paris. Rome is turning into a backwater.


are you really sure this poll is important to decide which is the 3rd city in Europe? however everybody is free to vote here..


----------



## CAESARS-PALACe (Jul 29, 2004)

> What is interesting here is the decline of Rome. Rome now is struggling to keep up with Madrid and Berlin let alone London and Paris. Rome is turning into a backwater.


I think you are to focused on skyscraperprojects...Rome has never had more projects than today (huge projects, famous architects, kilometers of new subway...). I really don't see a decline,on the contrary in the 80's for example the city had very little ambition in the urbanetics-field. The economy of the city has improved also in the last decade (GDP per capita reaching the level of the northern italian cities, nominal GDP surpassing even Milan...). A much more diverse economy also, growing faster than many other regions even in difficult economic times :

http://www.fdimagazine.com/news/fullstory.php/aid/1039/The_Jewel_in_Italy's_crown.html 

Not many people however are posting about Rome in the international forum : in the project-threads, construction pictures, renderings, news... Rome is absent and few international forumers are visiting the Rome-thread in the italian forum of course. That's why many people seem to have the impression that the city is sort of a museumcity. It is clearly not if you take a look at all the amazing projects that are going on...


----------



## Knopfleratu (May 20, 2004)

eievar said:


> that's simply... FALSE. one word is enough to answer your lies...
> 
> PS: you have to be acting... no-one can say such ridiculous things talking serious... :bash:


False??? three journalists' names that said it: JJ SANTOS,( Antena 3 tv. sports section), IÑAKI GABILONDO (cadena SER radio),and JIMENEZ LOS SANTOS (cadena COPE radio)....you know them..... and many more (radio MARCA, TVE....)

Pathetic listen to serious "journalists" to say it....as almost the whole press of spain this one in madrid tell the history as they want...that way of lying to the people... of course: for the press of madrid London or Paris were "shanty-towns"


----------



## JCarlos (Apr 3, 2004)

Knopfleratu said:


> Sure...
> 
> Madrid is not a New York, not London, not Tokyo but the majority of persons from Madrid believe that if, and they believe that it is better.
> 
> ...



Ok Knopfleratu, still living with your irrational hate, and your pathetic xenophobe...

You must know that when Knopfleratu talks about "press of madrid" he is not talking about real world. Of course he has never readed the Madrid press. In fact he is talking about that very very evil "press of madrid" that only exist in his own world created by his perturbated mind where the very very evil people of Madrid, who live in an insignificant small and very very ugly village, are arrogant people confabulated against all the cities of the free world. Of course they are absoluty insignificant, but they have franco, who raised between deads 30 years ago to avoid f.c.barcelona (the good ones) wins champions league, using his evil powers...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## eievar (Nov 4, 2004)

as i said, simply false. they could say that madrid deserved the olimpics, of course (why not?) but they never said that london or paris had nothing to do, or that silly things taht you said of raul and real madrid! hahaha, its ridiculous :lol:


----------



## tahk (Sep 12, 2002)

I voted Berlin and I think the fight was between Berlin/Madrid. Anyway what is all this about? power, economy, lifestyle???? I'm not sure I understand what the hell we're voting, but considering everything, I think Berlin comes first. 

Anyway, you castillian and catalan guys, calm down or I'll start shouting that Bilbao is the centre of the universe (a fact that anyone with half a brain knows  )


----------



## JCarlos (Apr 3, 2004)

Knopfleratu, If you are over 15 years old you should begin to think seriously about your being way, It will give you many problems in the future...


----------



## Knopfleratu (May 20, 2004)

:sleepy:


----------



## Knopfleratu (May 20, 2004)

eievar said:


> as i said, simply false. they could say that madrid deserved the olimpics, of course (why not?) but they never said that london or paris had nothing to do, or that silly things taht you said of raul and real madrid! hahaha, its ridiculous :lol:



Yes, he was ridiculous that were speaking seriously....many laugh when i listens to it.... pathetic.... but TRUTH.


----------



## JCarlos (Apr 3, 2004)

We laughted because that you said sounds so FUNNY. If you was talking seriously and you believe in the things that you say, you have a SERIOUS problem...


----------



## carfentanyl (May 14, 2003)

There's one thing that in my opinion Madrid and Barcelona both are lack to become an official 3rd city of Europe.

The cities are not that multicultural. Sure, compared to Villabajo and Villariba they are, but compared to other bigger European capitals like Paris, London, Amsterdam, Bruxelles or Berlin they are totally not.


----------



## tahk (Sep 12, 2002)

carfentanyl said:


> There's one thing that in my opinion Madrid and Barcelona both are lack to become an official 3rd city of Europe.
> 
> The cities are not that multicultural. Sure, compared to Villabajo and Villariba they are, but compared to other bigger European capitals like Paris, London, Amsterdam, Bruxelles or Berlin they are totally not.



whaaa!!!! sure you've NEVER been to Villabajo :tongue:




















:jk:


----------



## JCarlos (Apr 3, 2004)

I hope nobody from Villarriba nor Villabajo read this thread... :sleepy:


----------



## Cobain (Sep 11, 2002)

carfentanyl said:


> There's one thing that in my opinion Madrid and Barcelona both are lack to become an official 3rd city of Europe.
> 
> The cities are not that multicultural. Sure, compared to Villabajo and Villariba they are, but compared to other bigger European capitals like Paris, London, Amsterdam, Bruxelles or Berlin they are totally not.


Bruxelles? yeah right  . 

BTW take a walk in Madrid or BCN just in order to gather some information instead of just trying to guess facts.


----------



## cello1974 (May 20, 2003)

Kaene said:


> London
> Paris
> Berlin
> Rome
> ...


Don't you think, Vienna is a bit overrated here? Before Amsterdam, Brussels, and Moscow???


----------



## Knopfleratu (May 20, 2004)

carfentanyl said:


> There's one thing that in my opinion Madrid and Barcelona both are lack to become an official 3rd city of Europe.
> 
> _The cities are not that multicultural_. Sure, compared to Villabajo and Villariba they are, but compared to other bigger European capitals like Paris, London, Amsterdam, Bruxelles or Berlin they are totally not.



This whom speaking about Barcelona???, not this one in the voting...

Certainly that Paris or London, etc... are cities, more "complete" that Madrid , Barcelona (or other similar European cities) ... nevertheless i do not believe that some are better than others ...he is a stupid to do a "ranking of cities"

Madrid, Barcelona (and many other citie´s in Europe) possess attractions that never to have Paris, London etc... . I like the "MEGACITIES" but...who needs them????

PD- Certainly I do not agree with this that you say:"The cities are not that multicultural",,,,serious mistake.


----------



## eduardo89 (Aug 9, 2005)

either milan or berlin


----------



## prahsharp (Aug 16, 2005)

brussels! (certainly in terms of political power)


----------



## nick_taylor (Mar 7, 2003)

CAESARS-PALACe said:


> I think you are to focused on skyscraperprojects...Rome has never had more projects than today (huge projects, famous architects, kilometers of new subway...). I really don't see a decline,on the contrary in the 80's for example the city had very little ambition in the urbanetics-field. The economy of the city has improved also in the last decade (GDP per capita reaching the level of the northern italian cities, nominal GDP surpassing even Milan...). A much more diverse economy also, growing faster than many other regions even in difficult economic times :
> 
> http://www.fdimagazine.com/news/fullstory.php/aid/1039/The_Jewel_in_Italy's_crown.html
> 
> Not many people however are posting about Rome in the international forum : in the project-threads, construction pictures, renderings, news... Rome is absent and few international forumers are visiting the Rome-thread in the italian forum of course. That's why many people seem to have the impression that the city is sort of a museumcity. It is clearly not if you take a look at all the amazing projects that are going on...


I think Rome is in a worse situation than Paris when it comes to the 'museum city' syndrome. I thought it was also a city in decline population wise - along the lines of the fastest population loss in Europe. I think Rome is loosing out dramatically to Madrid, which I believe will also overtake Berlin within a decade.


In terms of top 5 overall stature + importance in Europe:
1 - London
2 - Paris
3 - Berlin
4 - Rome
5 - Madrid


----------



## pricemazda (Feb 14, 2004)

I would dispute that I think Berlin is due a renaissaince. Not just a government led one, but an economic and cultural one from the grass roots up. 

My list would go

London
Paris
Berlin
Madrid
Rome


----------



## Indexi (Feb 13, 2005)

cello1974 said:


> Don't you think, Vienna is a bit overrated here? Before Amsterdam, Brussels, and Moscow???


Vienna is not overrated IMO..certainly one of the great capitals of Europe.


----------



## Knopfleratu (May 20, 2004)

Fingolfin said:


> Vienna is not overrated IMO..certainly one of the great capitals of Europe.



Vienna is wonderful.


----------



## Kaene (Jun 7, 2005)

London
Paris
Berlin
Rome
Madrid
Stockholm
Amsterdam
Brussels
Vienna
Copenhagen
Warsaw
Moscow
Athens
Budapest

Slightly different order since last time but 
I think these are Europe´s major cities
if you count one city per country.
In this exact order if you take all 
major things into consideration.


----------



## SHiRO (Feb 7, 2003)

OK, this thread is done

LosAngeles1984 
Gabe
eievar
JCarlos

I told you to post in English, next time there will be brig times. You managed to screw the thread up the minute I left it clean.
JCarlos, your "funny little pictures" post deserves a brig on its own.
You guys along with Knopfleratu have been trolling this thread long enough...
Learn to behave yourselves on the Worldforums.

@mdet04: I said "don't swamp the thread with pictures" (meaning don't post as many as you did), I didn't say you couldn't post pictures.
Also, if you have a question, ask it over the PM. All matters related to moderating or questions to moderators over the PM, because they don't belong in the threads.


----------

