# MISC | Passenger comfort discussion



## Robi_damian (Jun 15, 2008)

Heya,

I wanted to add this thread and open a discussion because I have this odd feeling that new rolling stock is progressively reducing comfort on railways, at least in Europe.

Case in point, a lot of the new trains such as Talents, Flirts, Desiros, Spanish Cercanias rolling stock seem to have lower passenger comfort than many preceeding trains.

One trend is seats becoming harder and harder on many short-distance but even some mid-distance rolling stock. This is not the case in all countries (the UK does not seem to have this issue, for example, neither Italy to such a great extent - but I have traveled less there). Often, this trend includes the replacement of regular seating by folding seats.

Another issue is noise. Compartments are going if not completely gone, and now even gangways between cars are no longer separated. This brings some annoying issues of noise, both made from the gangways themselves but also from the increased capacity of one noisy passenger to bring "joy" to way more fellow travelers.




























Does anyone else have this feeling with regards to some modern train developments?


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

^^ I don't know, I don't find the modern German trains uncomfortable when I have taken them. Even the S-bahn trains in places like Munich and Berlin are quite comfortable in my opinion and feature fabric seats that are properly padded. 

SJ in Sweden, also, though I am not a fan of them, I have to acknowledge that they take comfort seriously on their trains and that their newer refurbishments tend to actually be more comfortable, not less. The new MTR Express has high quality seats too on their new Stockholm <--> Gothenburg service. The only problem with SJ trains is the lack of leg room on their non-facing seats - it can be a bit cramped on the newer Regional double deck rolling stock. 

Agreed about the UK - the trains there seem to take padding the seats seriously, thankfully - only issue there is leg room.

Chinese CRH trains were comfortable indeed with plenty of leg room too, but I only took them four times so it's hardly comprehensive I'm afraid. 

Japanese trains were all comfortable - even the commuter trains featured soft padded seats on their newer and older stock and the Shinkansen was definitely comfortable with lots of leg room. .


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## Robi_damian (Jun 15, 2008)

Svartmetall said:


> ^^ I don't know, I on't find the modern German trains uncomfortable when I have taken them. SJ in Sweden, also, though I am not a fan of them, I have to acknowledge that they take comfort seriously on their trains and that their newer refurbishments tend to actually be more comfortable, not less. The new MTR Express has high quality seats too on their new Stockholm <--> Gothenburg service.
> 
> Agreed about the UK - the trains there seem to take padding the seats seriously, thankfully.


Many of the trains that have this downgraded comfort issues are in fact German (Talent/Flirt/Desiro families being the top candidates IMO, with horrid seats and screechy gangways). Though France is producing its own, like the Z 50000, but these are only on Transilien service I think, as are some Cercanias trains in Spain that have uncovered plastic seating, like with the Civia.

It depends on what you mean by padded btw, as some of the padding is just cloth on hard material, especially in regional Desiro trains.


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## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

I do agree this is an issue. The new FLIRT trains in Estonia have extremely uncomfortable seats IMO. It's no so much the hardness since I personally don't mind that much but it's the shape of the seats. The back rest is almost completely upright and there's little support which makes long journeys a drag.

I also agree about the noise issue. The lack of partitioning walls means that the overall noise level in the train (created by people) is much bigger than it would be with partitioning walls in between. Quietly reading a book, sleeping or trying to work is nearly impossible. 

In the case of Estonia, this was the consequence of trying to optimize costs by buying the same model of train for very different services (essentially from a commuter train to an intercity express). Although this is understandable in a small country like Estonia, it doesn't explain the need for awful seats. Some city buses have better seats, for crying out lout.

I would also argue that the lighting is too bright and harsh for an intercity train service. The interior feels cold and not at all a cosy environment to travel in.









_Source: http://tarbija24.postimees.ee/20838...uutele-klienditeenindajatele-korgemat-tootasu_



rauno said:


> Elron


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## Sr.Horn (Jun 11, 2006)

In terms of comfort? Japanese trains > all.


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## Robi_damian (Jun 15, 2008)

Sr.Horn said:


> In terms of comfort? Japanese trains > all.


I have heard this from a lot of people. I defo need to try a train trip in Japan one day...


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## Baron Hirsch (Jan 31, 2009)

Yes, I would agree that with a few exceptions, several new trains are not improvements but the opposite. I would throw the new Velaro ICEs into the same bag. Compared to ICE 3, which were my favorite German HS trains, the Velaro is definitely a step backward. Bright neon bulbs shining unprotected into passengers' eyes, tighter seating and no optional compartments, no proper dining car, toilets that constantly are blocked....


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

It sounds like the blame goes to the transportation authorities that own those trains instead of manufacturers if the new trains are less comfortable.


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## Robi_damian (Jun 15, 2008)

LtBk said:


> It sounds like the blame goes to the transportation authorities that own those trains instead of manufacturers if the new trains are less comfortable.


It depends. I have yet to see a Talent/Flirt/Desiro EMU that is comfortable. I heard they make some better long distance versions with nicer seats, but have yet to ride on. Some of the noise issues resulting from non car separation and temperature bursts from the huge open doors would still stand probably...

To be honest, I only really notices these nuisances after I spent a few months in the UK and got spoiled by these babies on many regional lines around London.


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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)

They replaced the DMU soft padded seating in South Jersey with hard seating...similar to what Rebasepoiss has shown... Its uncomfortable after 30mins late alone an hr. DMUs are used on Interurban lines or tourist lines so the journey is short.  The Regional Rail setting has become more comfortable...but the Northeastern systems aren't as comfy as the West Coast systems... Although the Newer trains are a step up from the older ones...

Older refurbished EMUs & single cars that are used on the LIRR/MNRR have this kind of seating..


Empty Seating by Corey Best, on Flickr

Newer M7/A EMUs used on the LIRR/MNRR


M7 Train by Matthew G., on Flickr

Newer M8 Trains used in CT , have softer seating with outlets at every seat


Empty M8 Seats by Corey Best, on Flickr


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## flankerjun (Oct 7, 2013)

Chinese rail+JP trains is the best


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## dersyterf (Jul 13, 2015)

There are nice seats in passengers train.


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## M-NL (Sep 18, 2012)

Sr.Horn said:


> In terms of comfort? Japanese trains > all.


JR Limited Expresses, their equivalents with private railroads and Shinkansens, probably yes. But other train types probably not, because they often have high capacity interiors with few seats and lots of standing room. What especially surprised me was the high noise level on subways, local and express trains and the number of rattling interiors and doors. 

In trains in Europe I detect a similar trend as in planes: In every new model the seat pitch gets reduced further. Especially in a country with an on average tall population, like the Netherlands, the limits have been reached on what can be called comfortable. Yet it wouldn't surprise me if seat pitch on the oncoming FLIRT3s and CIVITYs has been reduced further yet again to make up for the lost seats because of the reintroduction of toilets in regional trains.

The most comfortable trains I have ridden yet are the Shinkansen N700 and the pre-redesign ICE1.


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## Robi_damian (Jun 15, 2008)

M-NL said:


> JR Limited Expresses, their equivalents with private railroads and Shinkansens, probably yes. But other train types probably not, because they often have high capacity interiors with few seats and lots of standing room. What especially surprised me was the high noise level on subways, local and express trains and the number of rattling interiors and doors.


Doesn´t Japan have a higher share of non-welded tracks than Europe on non-Shinkansen routes?


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## Baron Hirsch (Jan 31, 2009)

Deadeye Reloaded said:


> *Launch of the first Velaro D trainsets on the Frankfurt - Paris route.* -The Class 407 Velaro D is the latest variant of DB’s ICE3 family, and the fourth generation of Siemens’ Velaro. It offers 444 seats, 31 more than the Class 406 design it succeeds, and includes a 16-seat dining car.


Translation: by eliminating your leg space, separate compartments for those who prefer to sit with 5 other people rather than 100, luggage space, and the corridors which gave some semi-privacy to people on the phone or who want to stretch their legs, our company can hope for more profits with less services. We have also reduced the dining car even further, from a full car to a tiny little segment. However, how is a dining car with only four tables ever going to earn any money? Only by reducing service and variety, of course.


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

M-NL said:


> JR Limited Expresses, their equivalents with private railroads and Shinkansens, probably yes. But other train types probably not, because they often have high capacity interiors with few seats and lots of standing room. What especially surprised me was the high noise level on subways, local and express trains and the number of rattling interiors and doors.


I would disagree - the seats, though longitudinal, tend to be padded appropriately and still comfortable and capacious enough for up to an hour or two, but longer than that I would not like it. Generally, though, you'll not be travelling over two hours on such a train - you would take a limited express unless really strapped for cash wouldn't you? I also didn't encounter your problem with rattling, but I have seen you mention this before.


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

Do modern trains have full dining cars these days?


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## KingNick (Sep 23, 2010)

LtBk said:


> Do modern trains have full dining cars these days?


Depends on the type of train. Eurocities and dedicated HS services do have a full dining car, yes. ÖBB tried to replace it with a bistro when they first launched the Railjet, but soon realised that the passengers want a dining car instead. Therefore all units had to be redesigned...


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## Robi_damian (Jun 15, 2008)

LtBk said:


> Do modern trains have full dining cars these days?


From my experience, the countries in which I noticed some form of on-board catering include:

Romania - rarely nowadays, trolley service often offered on longer routes

Hungary - phased out on domestic trains, still available on some international ones. The ones that still exist offer good food, including goulash.

Spain - mostly Bistro cars from my experience, but there is on-the-spot seating too. Passengers use them mainly for snacks and drinks, beer and olives being a popular choice.

Italy - I only picked up food from a trolley service, never explored the train, sadly.

Australia - full service restaurants on long-distance trains. No trolley service so most passengers order the food and pick it up when called on the train intercom (New South Wals rail provider, I heard it is better in Queensland)

UK - trolley service on most longer routes I used

Germany - Bistro, restaurant both available

Austria (RJ) - I only used the trolley service

Serbia - last time I used a train, had full restaurant car but limited service

Moldova - the _provodnik_ had tea

France - bistro


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

Given the distances and/or faster speeds, I don't think dinning cars make much sense these days IMO. BTW, what is the food like?


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## Robi_damian (Jun 15, 2008)

LtBk said:


> Given the distances and/or faster speeds, I don't think dinning cars make much sense these days IMO. BTW, what is the food like?


True, and you see more and more restaurant cars replaced by bistros. Dining on a train is a really nice feeling though, the proper tables and/or greater seat pitches make a better experience than eating on a plane, for example. The best of the above were for me pasta on the Sydney-Melbourne XPT and goulash on a short Hungarian service (Budapest-Szeged).


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## K_ (Jan 5, 2010)

Robi_damian said:


> One trend is seats becoming harder and harder on many short-distance but even some mid-distance rolling stock. This is not the case in all countries (the UK does not seem to have this issue, for example, neither Italy to such a great extent - but I have traveled less there). Often, this trend includes the replacement of regular seating by folding seats.


When NMBS ordered new rolling stock a couple of decades ago they tested different types of seats by fitting them to existing trains, and asking the passengers about their experiences and preferences. It turned out that the passengers had a slight preference for the harder seats...



> Another issue is noise. Compartments are going if not completely gone, and now even gangways between cars are no longer separated. This brings some annoying issues of noise, both made from the gangways themselves but also from the increased capacity of one noisy passenger to bring "joy" to way more fellow travelers.


That is a consequence of several evolutions.
- There is the evolution to larger open spaces in trains. You see the same in trams and metros. Passengers feel safer in open space interiors than in compartments.
- There are the requirements for accessability. 
- Railways want trains that are cheaper to maintain and clean.
- Railways are being pressed to provide as many seats as possible.
- Railways are buying lightweight EMUs in stead of loco's and carriages.

As nice as the old fashioned UIC standard compartment coaches were, there is really no place for them in modern railway operations anymore...


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## K_ (Jan 5, 2010)

Baron Hirsch said:


> Translation: by eliminating your leg space, separate compartments for those who prefer to sit with 5 other people rather than 100, luggage space, and the corridors which gave some semi-privacy to people on the phone or who want to stretch their legs, our company can hope for more profits with less services. We have also reduced the dining car even further, from a full car to a tiny little segment. However, how is a dining car with only four tables ever going to earn any money? Only by reducing service and variety, of course.


Translation: By offering what the average passenger wants, in stead of what the self declared rail experts and railfans want we hope to be able to gain more customers.


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)

Perhaps trains served with coffee could help enhance passenger experience.


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## Robi_damian (Jun 15, 2008)

K_ said:


> When NMBS ordered new rolling stock a couple of decades ago they tested different types of seats by fitting them to existing trains, and asking the passengers about their experiences and preferences. It turned out that the passengers had a slight preference for the harder seats...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


True, but did they also prefer them to be upright?

I am not arguing for the plush 1960´s style "sink-in" seats, but for a comfort level at least similar to what UK trains have going for them, rather than some of the crap rolling stock being phased in on the continent.

And, actually, there are some new passenger cars built with compartments, including new PKP rolling stock for IC trains. Since in some countries safety might be a passenger concern, I think DeutscheBahn´s mixed saloon/compartment cars bring about the best balance.

Anyway, the difference in comfort is, I think, really starting to be a minus for railways for distances above 2 hours. I for one have found myself flying for much shorter distances than before, even for short advantages in time, due to the lower difference in comfort between planes and trains (trains are still better, in most places, though).


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## DingeZ (Mar 28, 2012)

In my opinion the seats are actually getting slightly better these days, we've got the worst behind us. Still, it largely depends on the operator, but late refurbishments like the DB ICmod and the NS DDAR > DDZ show that seats are becoming better. At this moment my favorite is the ÖBB Railjet. To be honest, I prefer a 4-seater 'großraum' to a 6-seater compartment, especially if it has a large table (like the Railjet and DB IC(E)).


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## Robi_damian (Jun 15, 2008)

Speaking of passenger comfort, one of the things I noticed in Australia was the obsessions for seats to be facing forward. On Sydney local and regional trains, passengers can move the backrest manually to seat forward, and on the Sydney-based cross-country services they kept telling you when booking that seats are only forward-facing, being reversed at each end of the route.

E.g. (for local trains):


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## zaphod (Dec 8, 2005)

Who wants to spend more money for less comfort on a train in an age of low cost flights?

What will happen when self driving cars come out?

Rail operators are digging their own grave. Investments in trains is politically popular now and ridership could be up due to fuel costs, demographics, and the economy, but that could mask actual desire and when change comes it could be ugly.


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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)

Robi_damian said:


> Speaking of passenger comfort, one of the things I noticed in Australia was the obsessions for seats to be facing forward. On Sydney local and regional trains, passengers can move the backrest manually to seat forward, and on the Sydney-based cross-country services they kept telling you when booking that seats are only forward-facing, being reversed at each end of the route.
> 
> E.g. (for local trains):


Those seats look very small , should have stuck with a 2x2 seating layout.


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## Robi_damian (Jun 15, 2008)

Nexis said:


> Those seats look very small , should have stuck with a 2x2 seating layout.


The guy is probably on the plus size. Aussie trains have wide loading gauges (well, in NSW). The shocking use of 3+2 is in the UK, with their narrow trains.


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## stingstingsting (Jun 5, 2010)

Robi_damian said:


> Speaking of passenger comfort, one of the things I noticed in Australia was the obsessions for seats to be facing forward. On Sydney local and regional trains, passengers can move the backrest manually to seat forward, and on the Sydney-based cross-country services they kept telling you when booking that seats are only forward-facing, being reversed at each end of the route.
> 
> E.g. (for local trains):


I live in Sydney and I actually love those seats! I'm quite proud that Sydney innovatively adopted this (or invented this?). Different types of those reversible seats exist across the fleet, from quite new ones on the Waratah train sets (the ones in your video) to old but still plush leather ones on the interurban sets.

When I head to the Blue Mountains to bushwalk with a group of friends, for example, its quite nifty to be able to sit facing each other and socialise for 2 hours. On the other hand, I prefer not to sit facing the reverse direction when travelling in the city. Having the option to move seats around is nifty which is why I quite like this obsession Sydney seems to have  And it sucks when you get on an XPT train and you realise that you're facing backwards for the entirety of a 13-hour journey hno:

So far, I've only noticed that Japanese trains (and derivatives) seem to have this option to reverse seats around, but in a different manner. The cleaners do it as part of their routine on the Shinkansen too. I wonder... where else in the World do trains have reversible seats?

From 00:50:


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## Sr.Horn (Jun 11, 2006)

Japan has two types of reversible seats. The system shown in the video ^^, and the flip-over system used in many types of commuter trains, specially in Kansai and Nagoya area:









https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/225_series









https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/313_series


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## K_ (Jan 5, 2010)

stingstingsting said:


> I live in Sydney and I actually love those seats! I'm quite proud that Sydney innovatively adopted this (or invented this?). Different types of those reversible seats exist across the fleet, from quite new ones on the Waratah train sets (the ones in your video) to old but still plush leather ones on the interurban sets.


The problem with seats all facing the same direction is that when the person sitting at the window wants to get up the one sitting next to the corridor needs to get up to. And with three seats abreast there is even a middle seater to content with. With seats facing each other in bays of 4 like is common in Switzerland passenger movements are more efficient. 
One of the things I noticed in Sydney was that the trains had quite long dwell times at the stations. There is a lot room for improvement there.


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## stingstingsting (Jun 5, 2010)

^^

True. I experience that chaos every day. 

I believe it is the result of many factors, including: 
- Trains do not (and probably cannot) stop at the same exact spot at each station to assist with passengers preparing to board.
- No signs/maps telling people which exits are best for which stations.
- Signalling could be improved, which would greatly help the first two issues.
- A legacy network with stations with narrow platforms (although probably not as narrow as in Japan!)
- Successive governments not following John Bradfield's original plan
- PEOPLE. Well some people anyway. Some people just choosing not to be aware in situations where there are a billion people trying to get off and on a train at peak hour :bash:

That being said, they did try to put in a new seating arrangement. I don't know why it was not fully adopted. I guess the trial must have failed.

http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/media-releases/fixing-trains-trial-new-look-tangara


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## V150 (May 18, 2015)

*Korean trains have reversible seats*

almost all korean trains have reversible seats. We have both revolvable seats(on newer versions of High speed trains and intercity trains) and simething you can see on that australian train(on older provincial trains) some limited express trains that run on busy commuter line have automatic rotatable seats :l


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## K_ (Jan 5, 2010)

Another advantage of vis-a-vis seating (as oppposed to airline style seatin) is that it creates space for luggage between seat backs. 
When I was travelling on Sydneys' cityrail form the airport to my relatives I really wondered what you were supposed to do with your luggage...

And vis-a-vis seating is very comfortable when loading levels are low, as they for example usually are on Swiss Trains. An efficient conventional railway only needs about an average load of 30% to break even. So it makes sense to asume that most seats will actually be unoccupied most of the time.


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## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

^^ I personally find it uncomfortable when there's a stranger sitting in the opposite seat facing me. That's why I always try to avoid seats which face another one...unless I'm travelling with company.


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## M-NL (Sep 18, 2012)

stingstingsting said:


> - Trains do not (and probably cannot) stop at the same exact spot at each station to assist with passengers preparing to board.
> - Signalling could be improved, which would greatly help the first two issues.


Train can stop at the exact same spot each time, in fact in Japan trains must stop within a meter or so of the designated stopping position, otherwise they are not even allowed to open the doors.

Also in Japan the length of the approaching train is known in advance and shown on the information sign. For every type and length of train there are markings on the platforms where the doors are going to be, so people can prepare themselves for the arrival of the oncoming train.

In the Netherlands on some stations they are testing a system that indicates the occupancy rate of the next train by means of coloured light strips along the platform roof. 

One of the problems in the Netherlands is that train length is not announced in advance. If for instance a train is usually 12 cars, but is shortened to 9 because of rolling stock shortage, all the passengers that assumed a longer train have to walk back some 80 meters and all squeeze themselves in the first carriage to not delay the departure to much. It is also not uncommon for trains to overshoot their stopping location by 50 meters or more.

Another annoyance is that in Germany ICE and IC trains run in fixed composition, usually with first class concentrated on one end and second at the other. Sometimes for no reason trains run the wrong way around without announcement. Very annoying when you have a seat reservation.


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## Robi_damian (Jun 15, 2008)

Rebasepoiss said:


> ^^ I personally find it uncomfortable when there's a stranger sitting in the opposite seat facing me. That's why I always try to avoid seats which face another one...unless I'm travelling with company.


And this is the genius of the Sydney seats, you make your own sitting arrangements, unless very crowded.


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## stingstingsting (Jun 5, 2010)

M-NL said:


> Train can stop at the exact same spot each time, in fact in Japan trains must stop within a meter or so of the designated stopping position, otherwise they are not even allowed to open the doors.


I was actually talking about trains in Sydney that don't stop at the exact same spot every time. Japan trains are great in that respect.

Another question I have - how comfortable do people get leaving their luggage on the racks in the train? Anyone know of horror stories of people getting up to exit the train at their destination only to find that their luggage has been nicked at some other station along the way? This seems like such a likely occurrence. If I had to leave my bags at the racks and was unable to lock them, I would personally feel very uncomfortable sitting down. However, I don't live in Europe so I wonder if most passengers are just used to it or if it is fortunately, a very minor and unlikely risk.

Again with the amazing Japanese railways setting the standards :banana:...


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## Stainless (Jun 7, 2009)

stingstingsting said:


> I was actually talking about trains in Sydney that don't stop at the exact same spot every time. Japan trains are great in that respect.
> 
> Another question I have - how comfortable do people get leaving their luggage on the racks in the train? Anyone know of horror stories of people getting up to exit the train at their destination only to find that their luggage has been nicked at some other station along the way? This seems like such a likely occurrence. If I had to leave my bags at the racks and was unable to lock them, I would personally feel very uncomfortable sitting down. However, I don't live in Europe so I wonder if most passengers are just used to it or if it is fortunately, a very minor and unlikely risk.
> 
> Again with the amazing Japanese railways setting the standards :banana:...


Of all the countries of the world, Japan needs those the least.


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

^^ Actually, I've never had a problem leaving luggage in any country that I've travelled in with leaving luggage. I tend to just keep an eye on it at stations. If it is small luggage I put it overhead, if it is large, then no one could take it off quickly and easily at a station without me noticing.


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## Baron Hirsch (Jan 31, 2009)

I heard that suitcases are rather regularly stolen on DB trains, even though hardly anyone would leave serious valuables in a suitcase out of sight. There is however no general sense of alarm about it. About the luggage racks near the entrance doors: I did experience how some tourists had left their luggage there on the Paris-Zürich TGV and then ended up cursing when they had disappeared by the time we got to Basel. 
About the general trend to uncomfortable seating in new trains: I must admit I have forgotten how bad some older trains used to be. I recently took one of the early 1990s double-decker RegionalExpress still in use on the line from Berlin to the Baltic Sea Coast. No aircon, but just windows you can open a little bit, they are perfect heat traps; As the upper deck sides are not curved, but angular, you have the feeling of hitting your head in the window seats; and the seats are hard and uncomfortable. These trains get my personal award for most uncomfortable trains still in service. Unfortunately I could not find pics of their interior anywhere. Here the outside: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Driving_double-decker_carriages_of_Germany_2nd_headshape


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

^^ Source about thefts being "regularly" stolen? My experiences of taking trains around the world are different to your own.


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## Baron Hirsch (Jan 31, 2009)

Source: mouth of word of a conductor


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

Right... Would be good to see some statistics as I am sure that railways do actually record incidents of reported theft on their trains, and universally I am sure that people will report to the police and/or the railways.


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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)

I'm sure it happens from time to time , but I doubt its rampant...


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## Robi_damian (Jun 15, 2008)

In Romania luggage racks for new trains are mostly inside the screen doors that phonically/thermally isolate the seating area from the exit/entry doors, so it is difficult for someone to discretely take your bags. In older cars, it used to be next to the doors, and cars had compartments. Literally no one used those, except for super-heavy bags, as there you had to leave the compartment at every stop. As they are not that used in Romania, when I traveled with a Medio-Distancia in Spain, I had a friend who even woke up from his sleep, had a panic attack and went to check the bags without realizing it. :lol:

Anyway, love the Japanese solution. It is quite practical to keep you worry-free.


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## SurfRail (Oct 16, 2012)

Robi_damian said:


> Speaking of passenger comfort, one of the things I noticed in Australia was the obsessions for seats to be facing forward. On Sydney local and regional trains, passengers can move the backrest manually to seat forward, and on the Sydney-based cross-country services they kept telling you when booking that seats are only forward-facing, being reversed at each end of the route.
> 
> E.g. (for local trains):


 These only exist in New South Wales, where the locals seem to be overly precious about such things. Apart from long distance booked-seat trains and some older heritage stock no longer in regular use, reversing seats are not found on urban or commuter stock anywhere else.


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## Robi_damian (Jun 15, 2008)

*German-style seating reaches Britain*



> The morning dash to get a seat on the train could soon be over for some commuters.
> 
> That’s because seats on the country’s newest trains have been likened to concrete.
> 
> ...



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-customers-bring-cushions.html#ixzz57eOQGWgM 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


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## mrmoopt (Nov 14, 2004)

Robi_damian said:


> Speaking of passenger comfort, one of the things I noticed in Australia was the obsessions for seats to be facing forward. On Sydney local and regional trains, passengers can move the backrest manually to seat forward, and on the Sydney-based cross-country services they kept telling you when booking that seats are only forward-facing, being reversed at each end of the route.
> 
> E.g. (for local trains):


Not an Australian thing, definitely a NSW thing. No other states have it.


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## Mr_Dru (Dec 15, 2008)

Some Dutch trains have luggage-racks. Before the luggage-rack, it was a lift for the food cart. But these racks are too small for huge subcases. Honestly, I never see any passenger used this rack. 

However the lounge-seats are comfortable. It's possible to take a nap on these lounge-seats.


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