# Pictures from my trip to India



## soulkorea (May 10, 2005)

wow, what an experience I had in India.
I went to India last winter for a month, and visited Delhi, Varanasi, Mumbai, Kolkata and Agra etc.
The first week in India was the worst, I was sick for a week due to food poisoning, and got my SLR camera and films stolen >( (Nikon FM3A and 3 lenses). Someone broke a window of my guest house room and somehow managed to steal my camera bag which was near the window. That totally runied my experience, because I was really looking forward to taking pictures with my film camera(I am not a big fan of digital photos, I prefer film). 
Photos I posted here are taken with a crappy digital camera which was my reserve camera. Luckly I had it with me when I was out for dinner.
Everything went smooth after the first week, and had a wonderful time. What a dynamic country India is, I highly recommend everyone to visit this wonderful country, full of the most kind people :angel1: in the world(except for the thief.) 
Of course, it would've been better if I had my FM3a with me and did not get so sick.
I really want to visit it again sometime in the near future.




































delicious Chai anyone? kay:


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## juan_en_el_valle (May 10, 2005)

Coooool! I love India!


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## Jai (Jan 5, 2003)

Great pics 

I like this guy's expression









But , Varanasi/Kasi looks to be the most underdeveloped part of India. It seems all the pilgrimage money collected in that city is frettered away to other places. It also attracts thousands of 'professional beggars' who move there each year to ply their sick trade on good natured pilgrims and tourists. The 'poverty trade' there is the worst in India. 

The government or some private organizations need to spend a couple million dollars rennovating the city. I can't believe their still using bicycle and hand(!) rikshas there. I thought they were banned! 


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Though I really must come clean that my heckles are raised somewhat, seeing as the photographer only sought to capture the stereotype and the absurd (grotty back alleys, cows :|, and wtf _*transvestites*_??? :weird: ), rather than the reality of the Indian city. And Indian forumers here wonder why India is so stereotyped. Its a self-perpetuating fallacy. hno:

Someone only looking at these pics... the seedy, the dirty, the strange... the unrepresentative, will get the idea that all of India looks like that -- that such images of India are the norm! Is it some twisted condesention that makes such photographers do so? Or conversely, the shock of the noble savage?


Really... in your words, Indians are the 'nicest people on the planet', and _yet you choose to take pictures of the worst of India, and pass it off as the norm?_ Should the visitor to Mexico take photos only of the most crime ridden favelas and gun toting street children and pass it off as Brazil? Should the visitor to China take photos of the most old and crumbling old city and policemen denying visitation rights in an area and pass it off as China? Should the visitor to LA go straight to Compton or Watts and take numerous photos of crack houses and coke fiends and pass it off as LA?

And yet you do so for India?? :sleepy: 


When someone has built a house, and invited you in in a show of hospitality, do you only take pictures of the unfinished basement and the inside contents of the garbage bag? Then do you show everyone rotten banana peels and unfinished floors and say 'this is my friends new house'?

*Is it not right to reciprocate such niceness by at the very least being HONEST?*  Could you not post (take?) representative images of India? Or was the whole trip simply poverty voyeurism and literally slumming it?


But you seems to be a good natured chap. Your words, if not your photos, anyway, so I'll leave it at that. But perhaps India should institute a policy like China, restricting tourists to only the developed parts of the nation. It would cut down the crap. ....not implying that your photos are crap, but I'm just being honest, right? :|


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## david chanrion (Oct 4, 2002)

colorfoul report, 
such an interesting world to explore


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## Jai (Jan 5, 2003)

Indeed. I do wish he'd have actually explored it. I mean, what kind of tourist goes to 4 cities, yet manages not to take photos of them. Only images of witherd old men, the homeless and shady back alleys?

I mean, he's obviously been to the cities.








^ Hey look there's Mumbai in the background. Yet no pics 









^ The same place a second time. Yet no photos of the city itself. 

(Did the author walk directly out of the train station, into a Mumbai taxi, and say to the driver: "My good man! Take me to your dirtiest alley of the city, forthwith most expediantly, please!")









^ Whoops, there is the taxi queue outside the Delhi station. Yet no Delhi? 

(..."Yes my Delhi taxi driving friend! You heard me! To the slum that covers 5% of the city -- and absolutely _not _ the city itself! I'm here to take pics of the 'real' India!")


Surely the author must understand how insulting it is to see only the worst proudly displayed, and the 95% of the rest of 'the adventure' utterly ignored.


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## carry_a_torch (Apr 30, 2005)

interesting


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## V80 (May 3, 2005)

what a ...


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## RajKhalsa (Apr 28, 2004)

V80 said:


> what a ...


This is my sentiments exactly. 

What the ****? This is your trip to India??

What the hell kind of sick joke is this? How many hundreds of photographs did you allegedly take and discard before getting these 'choice' pics? 


You know what's interesting? I distinctly remember seeing at least one of those photos posted elsewhere. 

I do not think these are his own. I'll look for them. 

In-fucking-teresting indeed.


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## Victoria (Feb 23, 2005)

Looks like a dump, I'm sure there are niser places in India to take photos. :?


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## Jai (Jan 5, 2003)

Well, he did literally photograph a dump, in one pic. :| By golly... I think we may very well have stumbled onto the author's real intent.


edit- Though I must wonder what part of what red light district he was in to photograph those transvestites. *shrudder* :runaway:


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## joburg (Aug 28, 2003)

Fact 1: *The world is not perfect.* There are many parts of the world that look like a dump, and it's about time we see it! Just because SOME parts of India are underdeveloped, does not mean the rest of the country is underdeveloped. If people gain that impression based on a couple of photos they've seen, then they're narrow minded.

Fact 2: *India is, quite simply, not a developed country.* It's developing. It's a well-known fact that *millions* of Indians live in abject poverty. Do you not think his photos are a realistic portrayal for the man with the funny expression? Do you not think his photos are a realistic portrayal for the environment in which the transvestyte lives? Or how about those people sleeping in the train station? Of course - New Delhi is the land of milk & honey for them.

A dump might be a place of horror for some- but for the people who live there, it's a realistic way of life. And I say kudos to SoulKorea for actually showing us what a dump looks like - unfortunately for most of us, we seem to be deeply disturbed that the world is not one huge mass of gawdy high-rise buildings.


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## Jai (Jan 5, 2003)

No I mean he literally took a picture of a garbage pile. :|

India is not a developed country, it still has a poverty rate of 20% and a low income -- no one is saying, or even remotely suggesting otherwise. *But at the same time it is hardly defined by poverty.* 

These photos are as representive of India as America's ghettos are of America, etc., etc.. Again, these photos are of the irrepresentative and the absurd. The voyeuristic pleasures of a rich taveller reveling in other people's misery to the point in that economic misery is the cause for and subject of *all* he snaps.


And spare me the sermonizing, Mother Teresa. I've lived in the dump, America's version: the projects in Detroit. My family lived on food stamps, and I even once got shot. My family comes has origins in a poor rural village outside Bombay, and my relatives still live in what some in the West might call squalor. The poor are proud, and their dignity is taken by offhand snaps by people gleefully capturing their image to show off later. The dignity of his subjects are stricken when the photographer phtographs to fit a prejudice. 

I think you will find Indian forumers here amongst the most honest about their country, in every thread we post photos in. Far, far more than other peoples who censor their snaps to project an image of their country that is *irrepresentative*.

SIMILARLY these photos are irrepresentative of India, in the opposite way. Not representative. Not honest. *DISHONEST*. It is not exactly an awesome concept to wrap one's mind around, is it?

If he had posted photographs of the good and the bad -- the images of what INDIANS in their whole live in -- then it would be a travelogue.

As it is, it's a collection of preselected photographs either chosen or taken with a direct object in mind -- *to project poverty and run-down-ness*. 

He has chosen not to photograph India, *but to selectively photograph to fit a prejudice*.


Now if he had some differing context to his photos (say, that he was an aid worker, helping teach the poor), then it would be different. His context he gave is: I went to 5 cities in India. This is my trip. This is India.

THIS IS NOT INDIA in its whole. If we fall back on statistics, this is less than 1/5 of India only, and in 6 years, it will be less than 1/10th.

There. I've explained the painfully obvious in several ways. Would you like me to explain in another, or do you have another half-baked sermon to deliver instead?


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## TheTramp (Dec 2, 2004)

Eh Jai, it's up to people what pics they want to show here. Maybe in the next series he'll post the tall shiny highrises. But for now, this is what we'll get Where did he say his pics represent India anyway? I don't understand your allegation that he did this intentionally to badmouth India. All he said was that this pics came from his trip to India, which indeed is true. Pics like these need to be shown so that people get a sense of what the other side of reality is like. One should never say that a number of slum pics can represent a nation, true, but I fail to see that this is the case here.


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## Jai (Jan 5, 2003)

Well, if he does come back and show how the great majority of Indians live, saying "oh ho you guys! That was just my "slum" album! _Here's _ actually a photograph of an Indian city!' then what I will do is apologize profusely and humbly and ask for forgiveness because I was damn wrong.

...But why is it that I have a feeling that he won't do that?


'Badmouthing' can be overt or covert. It may even be unintentional, but the damage caused by misrepresentation is done. Let me put it this way: I've been here in SSP for about 6 months (active), in those six months, I've seen -- and I've counted -- twenty-nine threads on India ruined by different people coming in and saying "this isn't India! Show the real India!" and then posting google image search results for "+India +slum" (the same damn photos, in fact!)

The Indian forumers here have had countless trolls barging into either our forum, or unrelated threads whining blatantly wrong facts about how most of Mumbai is a slum! millions of Indians are starving! show photos of them! and other such petty bullshit.

Why, in nearly every 2-page-long+ thread on India in the international forums in the last three months, I can show at least two people daring to lecute either me or the other Indian forumers about how 'real India' is poor, and we're in denial, when they're simply stunningly ignorant of the facts!


Frankly, I'm sick of it. I am. Just plain sick of it. Sick of people trying to mask over the ground realities with incorrect, exaggerated and just plain *ignorant * stereotypes. 

Look at this thread compared to _any_ others in the forum. Any. Do you see the same type of behavior for any other countries? You'd think in a "cityscapes" section, you'd post images of, oh, a city? Something to do with urbanism, rather than the photographic rape of those in poverty?


Is this representive of India? You asked the question, and you tell me. Is it? If so, how?


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## Anniyan (Mar 23, 2005)

THIS IS ALSO INDIA


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## TheTramp (Dec 2, 2004)

Jai said:


> Well, if he does come back and show how the great majority of Indians live, saying "oh ho you guys! That was just my "slum" album! _Here's _ actually a photograph of an Indian city!' then what I will do is apologize profusely and humbly and ask for forgiveness because I was damn wrong.
> 
> ...But why is it that I have a feeling that he won't do that?
> 
> ...


I didn't ask the question. Too many people know slum pics don't represent a country, and no one should pretend they do, to repeat my previous statement. 

I recall a post on Shanghai (or some other Chinese city) where the pics shown actually come from areas that are yet to be transformed by the economic miracle. It's actually not that long ago. So, it's not just this post. And the truth is that areas like these are real parts of many cities, and thus qualify as cityscape. It's not pretty sight, true, but life isn't always pretty, is it? It's not that the world (or SSC) is trying to pick on you or India. True there are some ignorant people out there, but why pay so much attention to them?


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## Jai (Jan 5, 2003)

I agree. Most people with sense can understand that slums do not a city make, but, and I hate to :fiddle: , but it's been my experience (mostly bad), here, that some people are almost religiously against the notion that India is anything but a large slum. It's almost like to even mention otherwise steps on a proclomation by the Almighty himself.

There is a visceral reaction by many, many people here against such that confounds me as much as it pisses me the hell off. 


Just think, had I or other Indian forumers refrained from posting in this thread, and put these pictures in correct perspective, we'd have a rash of posters saying how 'interesting' and 'exotic' and 'adventureous' India must be -- a veritable slum amusement park. The image of the wretched India would be again confirmed by the 'first hand'(woot!) photologue account by what must be a 'seasoned traveller' giving the impression he knows what he's talking about.

I doubt one guy would go 'now hold it fellas. Ain't these just photos of slums? How about pics of the _real_ real India?'


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## Anymodal (Mar 5, 2005)

i'm with jai all the way


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## V80 (May 3, 2005)

I just feel poor and dirty from those pics,really make me sick, but india isn't just like that...

what a......


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## Jai (Jan 5, 2003)

Thanks Maechile.

V80,
It's a sad fact of live that most of the people in the world live in such conditions. Even the middle class of most developing countries (not just India, but from Albania to Zimbabwe) do not live in conditions far removed from this... just minus the garbage on the street and plus a television or a pair of sneakers.

The only way is for a country to economically develop. That means investing all you can into your people, human and economic capital. Both investment of money, and time, like volunteering in homeless shelters, or teaching the deprived.

But I must ask. You feel sick looking at people in these conditions. How do you think these people feel? Do you think any of them realize that hundreds if not thousands of people from around the world are critically oogling them and saying 'gee, ain't that something how they live in poverty'?

Is it fair to these people that we are clandestinely, and though I use this word over again I'm not overusing it, voyeuring them? Stripping them of their dignity for a cheap laugh or worse, a 'humph'.

This is why I so utterly despise from the bottom of my being these kind of poverty vacations. The rich and well-to-do mingling among the poor -- not to help them in any way -- but to take a few snaps, absorb the refreshing air of decrepitude, assuage the conciance by clicking ones teeth and pursing ones lips pretending to be concerned about the plight of these people. Then relentlessly taking photographs all the while like they're some bloody rajah shooting some game, perhaps dropping a few rupees here or there. 'Sorry for visually jerking off to your misery. Go buy yourself jack shit.'

What really set me off was this guy claiming and indulging himself in the 'Indian hospitality' while all the while having some kooked up plan to exploit their image for some kicks and in what ammounts to be a visual orgy of omission against these very people, later.

Sick.


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## Suncity (Jun 9, 2004)

Aquamadoor said:


> You should be glad that your country is not the same as "american" cities or else tourism would be 0 from America.


Then Americans would be travelling in plane loads to India. They don't. Wish they did though. It would bring in more foreign exchange.

On the other hand it is exactly these kinds of photos which keep off most tourists. Just consider the city vs city thread. Isn't that the main reason why most forumers tend to dismiss off India?


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## TallBox (Sep 21, 2002)

Suncity said:


> Can you show me any Indian forumer in this thread, who has said that "India is all  lush green-grass, charming Himalayan temples, quaint spice markets, and sunset-adorned city waterfronts some forumers would have us believe"?


Don't get pedantic now. It's logical that these type of pictures are upsetting to some Indian forumers because they don't depict the image of India that they want to convey, which is, assumedly the opposite of dirt tracks, bustling markets, and shanties which the pictures portrayed - and hence, the nicer parts of India which I described in my previous post.


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## XiaoBai (Dec 10, 2002)

Hey i dug these pics Soulkorea...I think you did an outstanding job...and for the forumers who feel these are "one-sided," no one is stopping you from photographing India's other side and posting them here for contrast...most of us would enjoy seeing them. I believe Soulkorea merely photographed what he saw...nothing more.


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## TallBox (Sep 21, 2002)

XiaoBai said:


> I believe Soulkorea merely photographed what he saw...nothing more.


I think so too.


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## Guest (May 13, 2005)

..


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## Suncity (Jun 9, 2004)

soulkorea said:


> Hello,
> I am really really sorry if my photos offened any of you....I really didn't expect this kind of response.


You cannot please everyone. So don't even bother. Your camera, your taste, your pics.

To tell you the truth, I didn't like the "one sided" portrayal. But it is as it is.
It did puzzle me though that you visited Agra and didn't have a single photo of the Tajmhal. Maybe because it is too photographed? 



soulkorea said:


> One of my favorite photogrphers are Steve McCurry.
> http://www.stevemccurry.com/web/index.php4
> and I do admit subconsciously his work influenced my photographic style in India.


Steve McCurry is the Guru!



soulkorea said:


> Could've taken much better picture i didn't loose my camera(how stupid I was leaving my camera bag near the window where everyone can see it).


Believe me the pictures are very nice. A similar thing happened to a Polish photographer Maciek Da. He lost his camera too in Varanasi. He had to cut short his trip and return later to finish his photologue.



soulkorea said:


> I had lonelyplanet as a guide, I stayed at low to mid budget guest houses for foreign tourists because that is where all the fun is(yoga lessons, parties etc). I went to tourist spots that were mentioned in Lonely Planet, and tried to meet as many locals as possible.


That's one of my favourite books too. Lots of information though I find it strange why they recommend some of the seediest places to stay. I wouldn't stay there if I was concerned about safety.



soulkorea said:


> About two women who are making chapati, I stayed their house for a day, and they were the nicest people in the world.
> Almost gave me tears when I said goodbye to them.


Wow you are an adventurer no doubt! That ain't in Lonely Planet.



soulkorea said:


> And about smiling eldery ladies in Varanasi, they were tourists and they were one of the most fun loving women I have met in my life. You should've seen them party at night  I was even invited to a wedding. And I hung out with Hijras(transvestites) for a couple of hours too. I thought the Indian folks I met were very genuine.


The smiling ladies photo is interesting. I think hanging out with Hijras is something pretty common with tourists. Most Indians are nice people as you say. Except the occasional thief and some of the politicians.



soulkorea said:


> About not taking modern architectures, well, I did not stay at nicer upscale neighborhood or hotels. I am into shoestring backpackings, because they are more fun. I took pictures of what I saw and what I have experienced.


India's modern architecture isn't awe inspiring although some of the stuff is cool. But they probably were way out of your way.



soulkorea said:


> I sometimes saw some very modern looking places, but I see them everywhere in the world. I also did not see remarkably tall or interesting modern buildings or extremely high-tech or modern places either. I would've, really, I would've taken pictures of them if I saw them.


You can hardly see that kind of stuff in touristy India like Paharganj, Sudder Street, the back lanes of Colaba, Varanasi and Agra. There exists an India beyond Paharganj and Sudder Street. But that isn't really that interesting to most foreign photographers.



soulkorea said:


> I just didn't go to malls or go to right places. Why take pictures(I had a 1 G memory in my camera, meaning limited pictures) something that has no charceters, in my opinion. Please respect my taste, I am more interested in cultural stuff.


There is nothing like right or wrong place. Malls or Bazaars both are fun places to me and both have characters. Malls for their glitz and Bazaars for their colours and smell (sometimes bad!)

Maciek Da also said something similar "Remember - there is also another face of India - rich and modern (and definitely less colorful  I did not have enough tme to explore the new India, most of my time I spend in the old parts of cities... maybe next time... "



soulkorea said:


> When my friends from other countries visit me in Seoul, Korea, I do not take them to fency restaurants or upscale shopping malls. I take them to old markets, traditional restaurants, country sides where old tradition still exist. I guess that is where our perspective on BEAUTY differs.


Would love to see the other side of South Korea too. The only pics I have seen are just rows and rows and rows of magnificent modern highrises. 



soulkorea said:


> I will delete any pictures that any of you request.
> and RajKhalsa,
> these are my pictures. You can search as much as you want, but you won't find them.


All pics stay. They are your pics. 



soulkorea said:


> and once again, I am very sorry....


There is nothing to be sorry about! Some people didn't like the way the photos were presented. They are entitled to their thoughts. You are entitled to yours. 

It would also be nice if you had titled the photos like location and the interesting stories behind them [like the roti one].

Cheers

:cheers:


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## Suncity (Jun 9, 2004)

shaun said:


> Don't get pedantic now. It's logical that these type of pictures are upsetting to some Indian forumers because they don't depict the image of India that they want to convey, which is, assumedly the opposite of dirt tracks, bustling markets, and shanties which the pictures portrayed - and hence, the nicer parts of India which I described in my previous post.


Don't take this personally.

I am not being pedantic.

I am seeing both sides of the coin [refer to my post quoting soulkorea]. 

I think many people would be upset to see just one kind of pics of their country for a one month trip without any explanation of background of the pictures. As is clear from soulkorea's explanation he tried to stay in backpacking places and cheap neighbourhoods and sometimes often way off. 

Also if you are referring to Jai, I happened to check out his Kolkata thread and saw very similar pictures (see the street scenes carefully). I think most Indian forumers try to present a balanced view of their place. At least I try to. I have heard this accusation before. Visit the Indian subforums. It will break the wrong notion.


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## Imperfect Ending (Apr 7, 2003)

Suncity said:


> Then Americans would be travelling in plane loads to India. They don't. Wish they did though. It would bring in more foreign exchange.
> 
> On the other hand it is exactly these kinds of photos which keep off most tourists. Just consider the city vs city thread. Isn't that the main reason why most forumers tend to dismiss off India?


I know people who would travel to someplace because its in that condition though.


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## TallBox (Sep 21, 2002)

Suncity said:


> I think many people would be upset to see just one kind of pics of their country for a one month trip without any explanation of background of the pictures.


I think so too.




> As is clear from soulkorea's explanation he tried to stay in backpacking places and cheap neighbourhoods and sometimes often way off.


Yes, but I thought that the Indian forumers in question were too quick to pass judgement, and did so aggressively, without waiting for an explanation from Soulkorea.


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## Suncity (Jun 9, 2004)

Aquamadoor said:


> I know people who would travel to someplace because its in that condition though.


Yep! A majority of the backpackers who come to India are of that kind. They live cheap and in shady areas like Pahargunj, Sudder street or colaba back alleys or the religious fairs and indulge in stuff that is not available back home - take a smoke or ride an auto or get to see nude sadhus. It's their way of seeing the world. And they are welcome to do so. But what happens is that they reinforce stereotypes when they take back home the pictures and memories. I cannot say that it is good or bad. It's just a fallout.

For example I posted a thread on Kolkata in SSP. And one of the comments was that the person expected to see rows and rows of slum pictures. See how people are conditioned to think like that. Just because that is the only pictures you find. 

Similarly when I posted pics of New Delhi, a lot of people did say that they never thought New Delhi could be green. All they had seen so long is the cows and pictures of the bylanes of Paharganj.

Just two years back many people also believed that Mumbai just had 40 highrise buildings. 

Based on the above I think I appreciate Jai's point of view and also the quality of photos of seoulkorea.

I am sure you do too!


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## Imperfect Ending (Apr 7, 2003)

I would visit india but I don't think I can live there.


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## Suncity (Jun 9, 2004)

Aquamadoor said:


> I would visit india but I don't think I can live there.


That's interesting.

Why not? If someone has money, life is a breeze. If someone doesn't it is a hardship.


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## TallBox (Sep 21, 2002)

Aquamadoor said:


> I would visit india but I don't think I can live there.



I would. If you have money, you can do almost anything and can move in high circles. India has a 200 million-strong middle class - who live in conditions comparable to Western European standards.


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## soulkorea (May 10, 2005)

suncity,
I am sorry that I could not represent modern India.
But there is no need to insult my trip.
When did I calim to be an adventurer?
I stayed in Mumbai(5days), Kolkata(2days) and Delhi(3days), very very short time, and did not see modern structures that are interesting enough for pictures. I am 100%+ sure that there are many amazingly high tech and modern things and buildings in India, but India is a huge place, and I did not get to see them. However, it is not my DUTY to take pictures of modern India. I don't have have to go out of my way to take pictures of modern India.
Please, try to understand from a tourist perspective!  What impressed me the most about India is its culture(religion, philosphy, history, art, music) and people. Not everything modern or western is beautiful or impressive. 

I am adding more photos,
I was being very selective here, not to offend anyone. 
I think think they represent the BEAUTY of India.
I did use *photoshop* to enhance the hue and contrast(I used a crappy mini digital camera since I lost my good camera). Let me know if anyone wants to see the original versions.


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## soulkorea (May 10, 2005)

shaun said:


> I would. If you have money, you can do almost anything and can move in high circles. India has a 200 million-strong middle class - who live in conditions comparable to Western European standards.


I would too. Some of the most wealthy people in the world are Indians.


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## Imperfect Ending (Apr 7, 2003)

Suncity said:


> That's interesting.
> 
> Why not? If someone has money, life is a breeze. If someone doesn't it is a hardship.


I feel the same way about Thailand too..


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## Suncity (Jun 9, 2004)

soulkorea

I am not sure you read my responses. *If they convey to you a feeling of insult then I am sorry. * 
Suncity



soulkorea said:


> suncity,
> I am sorry that I could not represent modern India.


Why do you have to feel sorry? I don't understand.



soulkorea said:


> But there is no need to insult my trip
> When did I calim to be an adventurer?


I think there is a communication gap here. Why should I insult your trip?
I am least concerned about your trip. I *had my apprehensions * on seeing the first set of photos. I still do. But as you have said it is a matter of taste.

I said you were an adventurer because it is indeed adventurous to stay with unknown people, trust them and also empathize with them [The roti story]. That photograph is very nice and the story makes it nicer.



soulkorea said:


> I stayed in Mumbai(5days), Kolkata(2days) and Delhi(3days), very very short time, and did not see modern structures that are interesting enough for pictures. I am 100%+ sure that there are many amazingly high tech and modern things and buildings in India, but India is a huge place, and I did not get to see them. However, it is not my DUTY to take pictures of modern India. I don't have have to go out of my way to take pictures of modern India.


No one has said that it is your duty to take pictures of modern India. It is your choice to photograph what you wish. If some people have reservations then it is fair enough to accept their point of view too!



soulkorea said:


> Please, try to understand from a tourist perspective!  What impressed me the most about India is its culture(religion, philosphy, history, art, music) and people. Not everything modern or western is beautiful or impressive.


Well I am often a tourist in my own country - it's huge. 



soulkorea said:


> I am adding more photos,
> I was being very selective here, not to offend anyone.
> I think think they represent the BEAUTY of India.
> I did use *photoshop* to enhance the hue and contrast(I used a crappy mini digital camera since I lost my good camera). Let me know if anyone wants to see the original versions.


*These are some of the best photos I have seen! * Maybe nothing to do with the typical Cityscapes and Skylines. But very nice indeed.


Cheers!


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## Locust (Apr 29, 2005)

I believe that these are the real pictures of India at the street level..
showing ordinary indians in their daily life... nothing less nothing more..

By the way, I had thought a trip to India would be interesting.. but
I am not sure now...

Wouldn't one worry about the food and water? 
I mean, I have head indian food in the US but in terms of hygine..
I am having strong doubts....


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## sages (Apr 20, 2005)

Aquamadoor said:


> All problems solved.. Thanks to Suncity
> 
> 
> 
> ...


agree
well done ,man

well,i'd like have a trip to india.Have a look at the Ganges.


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## Locust (Apr 29, 2005)

To SoulKorea:

Wow, what a memorable experience.

I've seen you pictures in other threads and definitely I believe that these are
non-amateurish quality pictures.


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## Jai (Jan 5, 2003)

General Huo said:


> Before you put blames on others, cut down your crap stereotypes and lies on China first. :bash:


I find it incredibly hard to believe that Aqua and you, Comrade General, voter of '1' in literally _*every*_ public poll posted about an Indian city, building or even by an Indian forumer (shall I post links???), that even you is _that _thunderingly obtuse.

If you bothered to actually read my post, I said that stereotypes are INCORRECT, and posted examples that have historically on this forum had people from that country up in arms: China is a police state, Brazil is full of crime, the American inner city is depressed, etc. While all of those stereotypes may have a bit of truth, they are not 100% the trutht or even the representative truth.... i.e. *the whole bloody point of my posts in this thread!*


soulkorea,
As I said before, you photos are technically excellent. Beautiful portrait shots.. it was the very first thing I said. And I wasn't being at all facetious when I said it. 

I don't think anyone wants you to remove your pics. I certainly don't. These pics are as much India as how the rest of India is also India. 

My beef with the whole thing was that you purposely showed *one side * of India. You yourself admit that you would not like to show the modern, developing India -- the India that puts more people out of poverty each year than the most of the rest of the world combined each year, and the India that will likely eradicate the obscene levels of poverty shown in your pics in a decade.

Your subject is not India, but experiences of Indian poverty. I do so wish you would have put that caveat and that explanation a the very begining of your thread.

Even a cursory glance through the threads about India in this forum show the sheer magnitude of igorance that Indian forumers must wade through. Your post does nothing to dispel stereotype, especially as your admitted subject is the underdeveloped India.


Certainly people who have been following the forum in the last couple months have seen first hand the bitter stereotyping and borderline flame wars (like this) that we have had to put up with. I can give at least five such threads of people demanding fact fit the stereotype and we are in error from even the very first page of my subscribed threads!

Coming to the forum and posting pics you've taken as undeveloped parts of India as a subject, and calling it 'pictures of my trip to 5 cities in India' implies to a heck of a lot of forumers that you could not have found anything else in these 5 cities, culturally among the most diverse cities for sightseeing in India, and managed to come up with only photos willfully taken and directed at poverty.

I will most willingly put this to simple misunderstanding, and I humbly do apologize for jumping the gun. But surely you can understand our frustration. And that you'd be the very first person here in my bitter experience to post such a topic, and _not_ have trolling in mind!


It is not your duty to take photos of modern India. But it *IS * your duty to put your photographic subject in context, which you did not do, which created so much misunderstanding and acrimony.




sean storm said:


> sounds to me like some of you indians are throwing a fit over nothing.
> 
> so he took some pics of the real india. DOES THE TRUTH HURT THAT MUCH?
> 
> ...


The hell...? Have we even reading the same thread here? I'm simply not going to dignify arguements I did not make. :bash: 

Now you tell me what the 'real India' is. Is it the India of abject poverty, captured here, which doesn't affect the great majority of Indians? Is it the India of first-world prosparity, which also doesn't affect the great majority of Indians? Or is it the India of the lower and middle class, which represents 80% of Indians? 

Is this logic so painful to comprehend?

Is there corrupted motherboard in my computer that takes this simple, _simple _ to understand logic, and garbles it up, making it consumately un-understandable to the several Chinese forumers who've gotten their collective panties in a twist? Cognitive dissonance? Seriously? Whats the problem here?

Do I really have to dig the exact China equivilant of this thread from a couple months back, where many of the forumers posting in this thread made exactly the same arguments as me, here? 



shaun said:


> It's not all lush green-grass, charming Himalayan temples, quaint spice markets, and sunset-adorned city waterfronts some forumers would have us believe :crazy:


Which forumers would have you believe, Shaun? Do tell. Because anyone actually following the thread in its whole would find that to be a ridiculous statement to make, considering EVERY Indian forumer here has said THE EXACT OPPOSITE. :|

It's not being pedantic. Its you putting words in our mouth that is completely at odds with what we said. Not exactly a small scematic matter, no?



XiaoBai said:


> Hey i dug these pics Soulkorea...I think you did an outstanding job...and for the forumers who feel these are "one-sided," no one is stopping you from photographing India's other side and posting them here for contrast...most of us would enjoy seeing them. I believe Soulkorea merely photographed what he saw...nothing more.


Indeed. These are excellent contrast photos. But the contrast would not be known by the majority of the forumers, if the rightfully miffed Indian forumers would have pointed it out. I do wish the author would have made his goal -- providing contrast -- clear.


IM,
That dog comment was in especially bad taste  Again, a stupid stereotype meant only to offend.




shaun said:


> Yes, but I thought that the Indian forumers in question were too quick to pass judgement, and did so aggressively, without waiting for an explanation from Soulkorea.


I agree with you, I came on way to harsh.

But seriously, can you really blame our collective patience for snapping? The ammount of shit we have to wade through to even post in our own forum without some idiot flapping away with his ignorance.

You do not go to a hard-core right wing forum, post photos of Black gang bangers or utter poverty in projects, and say "this is my trip to Black America!" 

Why? Because it plays to a horrible and incorrect stereotype that African Americans would rightfully find offensive and incorrect and reenforces the many stereotypes already held by the forum. And I fully maintain that most in this forum is equally ignorant of India. ...or at least the idiots in the forum are the most vocal in every India thread.

-Jai


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## Suncity (Jun 9, 2004)

Locust said:


> I believe that these are the real pictures of India at the street level..
> showing ordinary indians in their daily life... nothing less nothing more..
> 
> By the way, I had thought a trip to India would be interesting.. but
> ...


All the photos are real ones and are from India. A photo is a medium to see through the photographer's eyes and thoughts.

Don't miss that India trip! You have to be careful for the first week. Don't go on an eating splurge. Drink bottled water. The body will adjust to the environment in a week. After that it should be fine. 

However if you go on a week's trip, then you are better off staying in good hotels, eating at the good restaurants and sticking to non spicy fare [hard job!]


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## Jai (Jan 5, 2003)

Suncity said:


> Yep! A majority of the backpackers who come to India are of that kind. They live cheap and in shady areas like Pahargunj, Sudder street or colaba back alleys or the religious fairs and indulge in stuff that is not available back home - take a smoke or ride an auto or get to see nude sadhus. It's their way of seeing the world. And they are welcome to do so. But what happens is that they reinforce stereotypes when they take back home the pictures and memories. I cannot say that it is good or bad. It's just a fallout.
> 
> *For example I posted a thread on Kolkata in SSP. And one of the comments was that the person expected to see rows and rows of slum pictures. See how people are conditioned to think like that. Just because that is the only pictures you find.
> 
> ...


Well bloody said, Sun. You put it in a far more articulate (and more PC) way as well. You are a far more patient man than I.


soulkorea,
Your next set of photos are excellent!

I echo Sun's sentiments exactly, and he's coming from the exact argument as I am coming from.


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## TallBox (Sep 21, 2002)

Locust said:


> Wouldn't one worry about the food and water?
> I mean, I have head indian food in the US but in terms of hygine..
> I am having strong doubts....


Service at Asian hotels are very good - you'll have all your basic amenities; clean water, quality food, clean accommodation etc.

If you stay in a 4 or 5* place - the levels of luxury are almost unparalleled in the West except for the elite hotels.


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## carry_a_torch (Apr 30, 2005)

I'd like to have a trip in India


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## Imperfect Ending (Apr 7, 2003)

All problems solved.. Thanks to Suncity 





and Aquamadoor


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## Guest (May 13, 2005)

soulkorea said:


> I would too. Some of the most wealthy people in the world are Indians.


Good . So whats stopping you ? You already said Indian people are very friendly and kind . And I assume you are wealthy because you are south korean .
It would be great if you were to shift to India . Maybe , we can meet in person then and I will take to you several such exotic places 

<edit for our mediator here>

Cheers SoulKorea for pics


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## Imperfect Ending (Apr 7, 2003)

What the hell are you trying to start, innoncent_monster. 

Ok I'll play this game.

I heard that some religious shamans eat human ashes in India. Do you eat human ashes, innoncent_monster?
(heard = saw on the show "Wild Boyz")

-edit-

Hahah I see you pulled back out of that "Do you eat dog" question directed to Koreans


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## sages (Apr 20, 2005)

Aquamadoor said:


> All problems solved.. Thanks to Suncity
> 
> 
> 
> ...


agree
well done ,man

well,i'd like have a trip to india.Have a look at the Ganges.


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## Imperfect Ending (Apr 7, 2003)

lol .. I think I am making someone angry again. Lets see where this one leads


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## Guest (May 13, 2005)

Hehe that provoked you so soon , all this while you were asking us to calm down
as a "Mediator" . I think you forgot too soon everyone has their own viewpoints


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## sages (Apr 20, 2005)

Aquamadoor said:


> What the hell are you trying to start, innoncent_monster.
> 
> Ok I'll play this game.
> 
> ...


 eat dog?
then what?

just different custom~


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## Imperfect Ending (Apr 7, 2003)

What viewpoint? 

I just want to know if you eat Human Ashes.. you know.. Its as innocent as asking if Koreans ate dogs.


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## Imperfect Ending (Apr 7, 2003)

sages said:


> eat dog?
> then what?
> 
> just different custom~


I would eat anything thats not spoiled and full of maggots.
I'll think about canibalism.

-edit-

Ok. Caniblism.. only if they die naturaly (not by me or anyone killing them) and I have nothing else to eat WITH permision from them.


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## sages (Apr 20, 2005)

Aquamadoor said:


> I would eat anything thats not spoiled and full of maggots.
> I'll think about canibalism.


excuse me, I'm not speak english ~

what does canibalism means?


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## Guest (May 13, 2005)

Aquamadoor said:


> What viewpoint?
> 
> I just want to know if you eat Human Ashes.. you know.. Its as innocent as asking if Koreans ate dogs.


Ya go ahead . I am sure you have several such fantasies of yours just like our friend SoulKorea . 
I think you should come down to India too .

SoulKorea reminds me of Indian movie "Munnabhai MBBS" where they potrayed a Japanese character asking people for "REal India ! Poor India !" on streets of India .....Hehe


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## Imperfect Ending (Apr 7, 2003)

sages said:


> excuse me, I'm not speak english ~
> 
> what does canibalism means?



I spelled it incorrectly its cannibalism. it means to eat human  yum yum 

and if you're chinese, 自相殘殺 or 自相残杀


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## sages (Apr 20, 2005)

Aquamadoor said:


> I spelled it incorrectly its cannibalism. it means to eat human  yum yum
> 
> and if you're chinese, 自相殘殺 or 自相残杀


yes I'm chinese.
thanks.
and you?
Thai?

自相殘殺?OMG~
Now i know why are you so surprised~


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## Imperfect Ending (Apr 7, 2003)

innoncent_monster said:


> Ya go ahead . I am sure you have several such fantasies of yours just like our friend SoulKorea .
> I think you should come down to India too .
> 
> SoulKorea reminds me of Indian movie "Munnabhai MBBS" where they potrayed a Japanese character asking people for "REal India ! Poor India !" on streets of India .....Hehe


No thank you.. I don't want to intrude


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## nova (Jul 21, 2004)

Good job taking pics, soulkorea! kay:

I realise there has been controversy, but I think Jai and Sun have made it all very clear. So I'd like to compliment you on your photographs, and I'm very glad you enjoyed your trip overall.


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## soulkorea (May 10, 2005)

Locust said:


> I believe that these are the real pictures of India at the street level..
> showing ordinary indians in their daily life... nothing less nothing more..
> 
> By the way, I had thought a trip to India would be interesting.. but
> ...


 nothing to worry about.
I have a weak stomach and I always get upset stomach when I go to other countries and try to adjust to their food. I think I got sick from Mango Lassi I drank in New Delhi which was sort of old. I did not get sick again after that. Just be careful not to eat street food, and always drink bottled spring water or soda. Also eat vegetarian dishes rather than chicken and other meat. I always had local Thali(yummy, the more locals in the restaurant, the better they are) I drank lots of Chai, since they were boiled therefore safe. Gave me lots of energy to do tourist stuff since it has lots of sugar and caffeine. I had a serious withdrawal syndrome from Chai when I came back to Seoul, Korea, LOL. I felt like India was very safe, people were more than friendly. If you are not into backpacking, there are plenty of luxurious hotels in Inidan cities. I just prefer more down to earth style traveling.
Nothing to worry about.

I am an amateur photographer. I love antique cameras, but I like collecting them more than taking picutures with them.  Noway in hell I am taking my good cameras anywhere. They stay in my dehumidified cases. I am not sweating over loosing Nikon FM3A, no, really....


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## Jai (Jan 5, 2003)

Aquamadoor said:


> and Aquamadoor


Yes. Your impressive misinterpretation and misquoting of everything that was said did wonders for the situation. Kudos.


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## sean storm (Nov 18, 2004)

jai,
just chill the f*ck out, please.
jesus.... you've made your point clear. now sit down, breathe, and let's just enjoy those lovely indian photos, okay?

:sleepy:


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## GVNY (Feb 16, 2004)

Will you people just stop whining? I loved all of those photos, and you captured the essence of many of the people. Although India may not be the most clean place in the world, the people are happy and a majority healthy. And what all you people think is disgusting are people's homes, and I find the country beyond fascinating. 

By the way, Varanasi is my favorite city in India. Just an amazing atmosphere.


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## Locust (Apr 29, 2005)

Thanks for all the advices on traveling...
I don't think I will be able to make it to India any time soon... but along with Egypt and China, India is one of the most `intersting' places to visit...

To the indians:
Nobody goes to India to wow for a newly built skyscraper... anywhere else
you can find a taller/more modern one... after a while it just gets boring
to see one skyscraper after another skyscraper... People come to India
to see what is different from their home land.


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## 真琴 (Jul 23, 2005)

JAI,i don`t agree with you ,you said:"But perhaps India should institute a policy like China, restricting tourists to only the developed parts of the nation. It would cut down the crap."what `s your meaning?i`m a Chinese girl ,i kown our country more than you ,you meant that China cut down some place in west like XiZang ,QinHai ``!no ,now the most important in our country is the west ,develod the west ~!so please don`t say any words like this ,some others will belive,it is bad for my country~!!
P.S:my English is so poor ,sorry ,i`m just a student ~~~~


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## 真琴 (Jul 23, 2005)

this shang hai of China 1
http://www.cng.com.cn/BBS/uploadImages/20031155124539048.jpg
2
http://photos.gznet.com/photos/1147051/1147051-LOe9fzaebA.jpg
3
http://images2.ctrip.com/images/resources/0066/132258.jpg
4
http://images2.ctrip.com/images/resources/0066/132117.jpg
5
http://images2.ctrip.com/images/resources/0064/129048.jpg
6
http://images2.ctrip.com/images/resources/0063/127831.jpg
7
http://images2.ctrip.com/images/resources/0055/110673.jpg
8,tradionally
http://images2.ctrip.com/images/resources/0054/108489.jpg
http://images2.ctrip.com/images/resources/0054/108488.jpg


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## dingyunyang179 (Feb 5, 2005)

Nice pics.
I like India.


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## 真琴 (Jul 23, 2005)

pics of beijing
1
http://www.cng.com.cn/bbs/UploadFile/2005-2/20052111503523.jpg
2
http://www.cng.com.cn/bbs/UploadFile/2005-2/200521133923798.jpg
3
http://www.cng.com.cn/bbs/UploadFile/2005-2/2005251948447.jpg
4
http://www.cng.com.cn/bbs/UploadFile/2005-2/200521141133405.jpg
5
http://images3.ctrip.com/images/resources/0040/80174.jpg
6
http://chaoyangphoto.beijing.org.cn/mmsource/image/2004-3-30/nanayz104.jpg
7
http://www.cng.com.cn/bbs/UploadFile/2005-2/2005281657035.jpg


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## 真琴 (Jul 23, 2005)

the west of China
http://www.qh.xinhuanet.com/2004/hxzq/xin_320801081946319166959.jpg 

http://www.qh.xinhuanet.com/2004/hxzq/xin_2408010802223791573518.JPG
http://www.travelnews.com.cn/cmsmanage/piclib/images/867505391304974630.jpg
http://img.pcpop.com/upimg/2003916754136551.jpg
http://www.sinomap.com.cn/pic/city/china city/019.jpg
http://202.38.64.11/~wangjy/photo/2002020302.jpg
http://www.yndaily.com/pic/2005/06/news_86_158555_9.jpg
http://tourism.yntv.cn/category/20106/2005/02/18/images/self_20050218_204.jpg
http://tourism.yntv.cn/category/20106/2005/02/18/images/self_20050218_202.jpg


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## Jai (Jan 5, 2003)

This thread is long dead. Let it lie peacefully.

I'm out. 
-Jai


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## chitrakaar (Apr 24, 2005)

"I believe these are the pictures of real India"

I like the way people who know so little about India, and who may have at best, travelled only a little, claim to know the "real India".

When people stay in cheap hotels in Delhi, Mumbai or Benaras - they see a particular face of India - it is the India that a certain variety of tourists love, behind the squalid 
exteriors, tourists can end up meeting some very gentle people - and that warms their hearts.

On the other hand, for many of us Indians, who have travelled extensively in the country - such travelogues reveal the part of India that we find most depressing - NOT because we wish to pretend that India doesn't have poor people, but because we know that India is not JUST that ALONE. 

Sadly, this doesn't happen with other countries. There are very unseemly neighborhoods in Bangkok right next to the Chayo praya river that I would never dream of photographing. 

All my pictures of Thailand show it at its best.

When I travelled in Chiang Mai i met some wonderful Thais - but I couldn't imagine taking pictures of beggars in Thailand....

Likewise, for Mexico.

Mexico city has plenty of images of poverty - if thats what one wished to focus on - but all I wanted to photograph were its best vistas.

For some reason, poverty in India seems to be fair game - but showing a more attractive face of India is seen to be "telling a lie"?

I just spent 8 days travelling in Assam and Meghalaya - I was accosted by exactly 2 beggars in all of those 8 days.

Yes, I did see traffic jams, unollected garbage, and run-down buildings.

But I also saw beautiful tea gardens set against magnificent hills, beautiful lakes, villages with traditional homes with artistically carved awnings, with beautiful printed textiles adorning their windows, some with pretty flowering trees and gardens;

I saw 300-400 year old monasteries with wonderful paintings and wood carvings - finely sculpted temples, and awesome wildlife preserves.

In Guwahati - I saw a great museum that showcased sculptural finds from the area and a wonderful display of traditional and historical arts and crafts from Assam and the NE region (at the KALAKSHETRA). A collection that was truly world-class.

Both Guwahati and Shillong had pulsating and attractive downtowns with new malls, with some of the most stylish boutiques for textiles and home decor I've seen anywhere in the world.

Of course, I would not argue that fancy boutiques in India's booming cities and towns are representative. But neither are India's slums. 

65% of Indians live in villages.

And incidentally, I must have passed thru hundreds of villages - both big and small. While village incomes are generally very modest, more than 70% of village homes in Assam's Jorhat and Sibsagar districts were surprisingly large - bungalow-sized or even villa-sized. In the better-off villages, I even saw a fair number of mobikes, and even a few new cars.

And Assam ranks as a relatively low-income state.

So what is "REAL"?

93% of India;s children are now attending primary schools. Throughout India's small towns and even villages - a common early morning site is children neatly dressed and headed for school...

The easy chairs in a rural patio, the sofas in the village home, the motorized three-wheeler minicabs that ply between the hills of Meghalaya - small-town internet cafes and computer colleges - the village cable-TV base stations - all that too is real too.

Could it be that there some people in this world who get sadistic pleasure in seeing India's misery, and don't want to see pictures of India developing and progressing, because that would take away their sadistic thrills?

Who really wants the WHOLE truth?

Everyone has seen pictures of Indian beggars a thousand times - if I really wanted people to know the WHOLE TRUTH - I would photograph those aspects of India that no one had seen before - so they had more of the truth in front of them.

That's the point some Indians have tried to make with passion on this board.

But lets leave SOULKOREA out of it. I think he is sincere in his own way - its our job to keep offering the rest of the truth....and lets do it in the most honest and aesthetic way we can....

(Incidentally, I had the good fortune of spending a day in Seoul - it is a lovely city, not just for its great modern architecture, but as much for its gracious hospitality towards strangers) 

I wish the Koreans who travel to India all the very best - I loved visiting their country,
and I hope they will find things to love when they visit us in India.


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## financial way (Jul 29, 2005)

great, this is india..

superpower...


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## ARMANI (Mar 12, 2006)

I cant see any of your pics.


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## cyberjaya (Mar 21, 2006)

me neither.


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## lumpia (Apr 10, 2004)

真琴 said:


> the west of China
> http://www.qh.xinhuanet.com/2004/hxzq/xin_320801081946319166959.jpg
> 
> http://www.qh.xinhuanet.com/2004/hxzq/xin_2408010802223791573518.JPG
> ...


dont post pictures of China if this thread is about southkorea's pics of India! create a new thread for them!


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## cyberjaya (Mar 21, 2006)

lumpia said:


> dont post pictures of China if this thread is about southkorea's pics of India! create a new thread for them!


but, could somebody help me see southkorea's pictures? they are all bad links now. I have some pictures too about my India trip but I'm afraid Indian friends may not be happy with them. So I want to see what it is in southkorea's pictures.


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## vishalt (Jan 27, 2006)

I can't see the pics tbh :[


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## magestom (Jan 8, 2005)

I can't see them?


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## spyguy (Apr 16, 2005)

cyberjaya said:


> but, could somebody help me see southkorea's pictures? they are all bad links now. I have some pictures too about my India trip but I'm afraid Indian friends may not be happy with them. So I want to see what it is in southkorea's pictures.


You can post whatever you want, but if your pics are all negative then you should expect some criticism.


----------

