# for a guy that never visited Europe before, what is the first country that he should



## KHS (Mar 13, 2007)

*And the winner is.............CROATIA!!!*

Come to the Adriatic coast. Croatia is very popular this time of the year.:dj: 

*Some pictures....*http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=396469

Croatia, Island of Pag, Novalja, Zrče beach::rock: 
















Croatia, Island of Hvar, Hvar, Carpe Diem: :nocrook: 
















:dance:


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## KHS (Mar 13, 2007)

*CROATIA*

*Here is a link of Zagreb Tourist Board and great movie...*http://www.zagreb-touristinfo.hr/?id=151&l=h

*And some A1 movies (they are really good)...*









































Last two are the best


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## KoolKeatz (Jan 30, 2007)

Sen said:


> thanks for all the suggestions so far, I am sure Greece and Istanbul are all very nice but they are too far.
> I have decided to Visit CzechRepublic/Austria next summer and possibly Southern Germany, I moved it to the summer because winter holiday is probably too short. I only have two weeks.
> My plan is to fly from Toronto to either Frankfurt or Munich, from there I am going to czech rep. then austria, come back to Germany for an flight to China.I am not sure if this is the cheapest way but I think it beats flying a LCC to UK then catch another LCC to prague in terms of conveinence.I will probably need to change airport in london and I dont want to do that.
> 
> ...



A train is probably the best way, but with some luck u can get also some cheap flights to Prague.

For trains look here:
http://www.bahn.de/p/view/international/englisch/international_guests.shtml

Frankfurt-Prague: 7-8 hours / 80-100€
Munich-Prague: 5-6 hours / 50-70€


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## Ore (Jun 6, 2006)

Start with 3 day in London and 3 day in Paris, but at the end all depend what do you wanna see.


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## Bitxofo (Feb 3, 2005)

^^Add 3 days in Barcelona.


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## christoph (Jul 4, 2005)

What about Berlin? That's the place where East and West clashed. It's austere, diverse, interesting. After that (to come away from the city) you could travel to the Baltic Sea along the Polish shore.

Anyway, that's a tough decision to make. Europe is just so diverse.


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## Atropin (Jul 23, 2007)

You know, my first trip to Europe included Dusseldorf, Köln and Munich. I had only 8 days. 
I began trip with Dusseldorf (1 day), then Köln (2 days) and Munich (5 days).
It was great, because Köln has a beautiful fantastic old town, Dom Cathedral and The river Rhine. We (me with my girlfriend, now she’s wife) went by train, it took 30 min from Dusseldorf to Köln.
We bought Ice Train’s tickets from Köln to Munich before trip, and it took 5 hours, the train had maxim speed about 300 km/h or more, I don’t remember. And I find Ice is more comfortable than TGV in France.
Munich has beautiful gothic cathedrals, German-style, roman architecture, pinacotheques, great shopping Streets, excellent German restaurants, Olympic village, BMW museum and palaces in Bavaria, such as Neuschwanstein. And you should visit some villages in The Alps, We’ve been to Oberammergau. 
I think this trip is one of the best way to see Europe at first time.
If you prefer France, you should visit Paris and other smaller city, for example Lion – very nice, kind and clean city.


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## weirdo (Feb 15, 2003)

if i have the luxury of time and loads of extra cash to visit europe i'd first go to iberia. of course that's because portugal and spain are still my european favorites for some years already. but imo, for any traveler it's not gonna be hard to find stuff you'll really enjoy in the entire peninsula. and it's also close to northern africa, which is another interesting region.


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## Rapid (May 31, 2004)

Hope you didn't carve your decision in stone yet, because I think you might be forgetting about culture shock.

Don't mistake North America and Europe as being identical. Sometimes culture shock can be fun or at other times, frustrating.

With that in mind, I'd suggest the England because its probably the most similar to North America. It would make a good transition for you to get accustomed to the continent proper.


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## CORLEONE (Jun 15, 2007)

If I where you, first of all I would delay the trip till I was sure that I could expend at least 4 or 5 more days. You will come from a far place and flight takes much time from the real trip.

Having 11 days free to expend in Europe, as you can see in this forum, there are plenty options to mix fun and culture. My perfect first trip to Europe would be:

BEST MOMENT: SUMMER

Day 1, 2 and 3: Arriving in Rome. BOOM!!!!! radical contrast from where you come from, the things you saw in many movies but you never had the chance to see in real, to be in the nest of the EMPIRE. CULTURE CULTURE AND CULTURE. Nice meals

Day 4, 5 and 6: fly to Berlin, amazing capital, full of things to do and see. Confrontation of Comunism and Capitalism. Good night life. Nice discos.
Take the chance to go to the Sachsenhausen concentration camp 35 Kms north.

Day 7, 8 and 9: Fly to Barcelona, wonderful city, awesome architecture, Amazing night life, good weather. Check the views of the city from PARK GÜEL and MONT JUIC mountain.

Day 10 and 11: Rent a car in Barcelona and go to "ROSES" 157 km following the coast to the north and you will find a nice town looking at the Mediterraneo perfect to rest from the whole trip, with nice beach, good weather, good food and easy coming back to Barcelona´s airport to take a flight to your holy land.


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## Posener (Jun 24, 2006)

Go to Eastern Europe and Central!!Visit Poland,Czech Republic and Austria!!This is a place to go!!


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## CORLEONE (Jun 15, 2007)

^^ Lets not be nationalistic and give him a proper trip where he can find diferent visions of Europe lets think about the trips we did in Europe and the places (apart of our home) that were quite nice to visit.


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## Posener (Jun 24, 2006)

^^ Maybe Spain  Why nationalistic, aren't central and eastern european countries beautiful? Why, if he has never been in Europe he should visit western europe first the same as, I don't know, 80% of tourists?


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## sehensucht (Aug 10, 2007)

Spain - France - Italy - Greece 


Mediterranean Europe rulez


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## CORLEONE (Jun 15, 2007)

*POSENER* Thats true, but it is not western countries what I offered, I gave him 1 central Europe and 2 southern europe countries, you are offering places that, with all my respects, are secundary tourist places.

I think that his first approach to Europe should be going to some more touristic places than the ones you said. Is not my fault that Barcelona is one of them. I could say Madrid no? :banana: 

At the same time the places I offered are quite nice, cheap compared to London or Paris and with many many more things to visit, for exaple Rome.

But he decides, is his trip 
:angel:


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## MasEl (May 23, 2007)

CORLEONE said:


> *POSENER* Thats true, but it is not western countries what I offered, I gave him 1 central Europe and 2 southern europe countries,


Different visions of Europe, huh?...and former eastern bloc countries = Asia....:sleepy:



CORLEONE said:


> you are offering places that, with all my respects, are secundary tourist places.


...like Prague, Vienn and Budapest :nuts: You are westerneuropean-centrist 


Sen if you want see both tragic and glorious heritage and history of Europe go to Prague then Krakow witch Auschwitz - Bratislava - Vienn - Budapest and Zagreb. Spend 1-2 days in every city. There you have confrontation of communism and capitalism, slavic europe, germanic europe, magyar europe, mediterranean europe et cetera. These cities are situated quite close to each other, having good infrastructure and touristic base... If not 1st that should be your second trip to europe 

BTW you chosed something already Sen??


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## RzgR Spijkenisse (May 16, 2007)

*Amsterdam*

First, take a plane to Amsterdam Airport. Visit Amsterdam for 1 day. Amsterdam. Instead of following the other tourist on canal cruises and bus tours you have to rent a bike and cycle trough Amsterdam. Take youre time and make some nice pictures. 



















http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/Bicycle_parking_lot.jpg/250px-Bicycle_parking_lot.jpg[/IMG]

[I]Look at this parking lot. It is only for bike's. Amsterdam is a great place to cycle[/I]

[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/Old_head_post_office.jpg/250px-Old_head_post_office.jpg

*Rotterdam*

On the second day you can take the train to Rotterdam, one of the most modern big cities in West-Europe. It is a 50 minutes ride and it costs you around 12 Euro. The skyline is dominated by high buildings. Visit the Euromast tower for a great viev from 200 meter and go on the Spido boat for a great view from the river. Because it has a lot of high buildings the best way to look at it is from the river. It is also the largest seaport in Europe. You can buy a cheap combo-ticket for the Spido boat tour and the Euromast Tower.




























*Brussels*

Stay the night in Rotterdam and travel on the next day to Brussels. It is a 90 minute drive and it will cost around 20 - 25 Euro. The capital of Belgium and the city witch houses the European Parliament. You can visit the modern Europe Quarter and the centre of the city. Here you will find one of the most beautifull squares in Belgium just near the City Hall





































*Paris*

Stay the night in Brussels and travel the next day to Paris where you can spent the next day's. You should be able to get a ticket for around 40 Euro and it takes about 60 minutes at 300 KM/H. 

Paris is sooo beautifull. It is one of the best cities in Europe. So save Paris for the end, as an ice cream dessert.


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## CORLEONE (Jun 15, 2007)

^^ Is not bad neither but if you choose this trip, I would take some time to visit Brugge in the way from Rdam to Brussels, Amazing place to visit, You won´t close your mouth.

My girlfriend is from there and I love to go every month. I did my exchange in Rotterdam and it is a quite amazing place to see skyscrapers and check the biggest harbour in Europe.

Advise: for this trip don´t forget winter clothes...


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## jbkayaker12 (Nov 8, 2004)

Atropin said:


> You know, my first trip to Europe included Dusseldorf, Köln and Munich. I had only 8 days.
> I began trip with Dusseldorf (1 day), then Köln (2 days) and Munich (5 days).
> It was great, because Köln has a beautiful fantastic old town, Dom Cathedral and The river Rhine. We (me with my girlfriend, now she’s wife) went by train, it took 30 min from Dusseldorf to Köln.
> We bought Ice Train’s tickets from Köln to Munich before trip, and it took 5 hours, the train had maxim speed about 300 km/h or more, I don’t remember. And I find Ice is more comfortable than TGV in France.
> ...



I agree with Koln a very nice city, Rhine River with its scenic small towns complete with castles, forts and cathedrals on both sides of the river. Germany is a beautiful country, land of fairy tale castles.


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## Paulo2004 (Oct 13, 2004)

Portugal ofcourse, it's Europe's gate.


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## CORLEONE (Jun 15, 2007)

hix said:


> Very strange, I live here all my live and I never saw anything like that! Maybe you're suffering from hallucinations?:nuts:
> It's frightening to see how you are generalising. Imaging that somebody would do the same about your country after a bad experience in Barcelona.
> I don't like you because you can't see what you're doing is racist. I could tell a lot of bad things about Spain, but first of all I like the country and secondly you simply do not do bash countries.
> It would be nice if you would stop now with your 'examples' of how bad Belgium is. I don't believe any of your stories... it's just all hearsay...hno:


Yes, I´m crazy and I suffer hallucinations and Belgium is perfect. Sorry for all what I said. I am racist, thats way I said all that things before... :dunno: 

You can say whatever about Spain, you are free to do it I won´t doubt about your words, thats for sure...

PS/ By the way, your race in Belgium and mine are the same, Caucassian.


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## diz (Nov 1, 2005)

I'd suggest Barcelona. But that's me after watching Cheetah Girls 2...


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## 18Tetouan18 (Jul 23, 2007)

Paris,Amsterdam,London,Madrid 

Best Cities in Europe


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

CORLEONE said:


> What you call ignorant crap is real experience, I know what "**** YOU" means and this is exactly what I had to listen once because I just looked at a guy in the street, or the time I saw a guy speeting a woman on her face and calling her such a beautiful words, or the time that almost 6 guys were fighting in the metro truck like animals while old women, kids and normal people was around. Or the time I went to a concert in Brussels and I almost have to get out running because of the big fight that started in it, in which the singer had to get out as well.
> 
> I don´t know what refugees and Flandes history has to do with that. We had refugges from many other wars as well, and spanish people has gone to many other places.
> 
> I´m not gonna get into this again, I know very well how Brussels is, I don´t care if you beleive it or not. My girlfriend is actually living in Brussels so she is not saying anything agaisnt it, the only things she said is that guys insulted her in the street as a normal men behaviour there, I have seen that with my own eyes to other women and people, I´m not especulating. I also don´t say that is a general fact, but that happens with a much more regularity than in Madrid. Actually cause I never even saw it in my city (maybe could be because we treat better the women). And I only said that Brussels "in my opinion" is not the best example of tourist nice treatment. If you accept other points of vew perfect, If you don´t like it, is your bussines.



Eh.... I hadn't visisted this thread since my last post and you're still going on with your stereotypes.

I'll remind you, I had more problems in Spain than in any other foreign country...


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## CORLEONE (Jun 15, 2007)

Well I´m not gonna talk about it anymore so you can say whatever you want. I didn´t want to keep on talking about it but it seams that belgian people gets hurt when there is somebody that doesn´t have the same opinion as them and the wanted to continue talking, what can I say?

I have to say that I like a lot Gent, Brugge and Dame. Nice places.

Say whatever you want about Spain, this is a free place.


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## Den Antwerpenaar (Apr 28, 2007)

CORLEONE said:


> I just looked at a guy in the street, or the time I saw a guy speeting a woman on her face and calling her such a beautiful words, or the time that almost 6 guys were fighting in the metro truck like animals while old women, kids and normal people was around


That's true. I have also seen guys who were fighting in a metro truck in the afternoon ! But that's not a reason to say that all the Belgians are unfriendly !
But I understand what you mean !


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## CORLEONE (Jun 15, 2007)

^^ Please... I never, never said that all belgians are unfriendly. I never said that, because is not true...

I just complained about things I saw which are far from normal. So lets leave it like that. Belgium is a nice place but "IN MY OPINION" there are better examples than Brussels of places which treat nice their tourism.


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## CORLEONE (Jun 15, 2007)

eklips said:


> Eh.... I hadn't visisted this thread since my last post and you're still going on with your stereotypes.
> 
> I'll remind you, I had more problems in Spain than in any other foreign country...


Maybe because you came many more times to Spain than to any other country :lol:


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

Absolutly not


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## CORLEONE (Jun 15, 2007)

eklips said:


> Absolutly not


I was kidding, calm down my friend :banana:


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## Josh (May 30, 2004)

Gosh are you guys still bickering? Soon he might get the impression that Europe isn't worth a visit since everyone just keeps on arguing.


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## CORLEONE (Jun 15, 2007)

I´m sorry Josh, you are right.


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## Darryl (Jan 14, 2007)

I haven't read through all 10 pages, but why is Germany so underrated?? Everyone always wants to go to London, France, and Italy. People don't realize that Germany is beautiful and worth visiting too. Just because of ridiculous sterotypes from WWII more than 60 years ago?? People, you don't know what you're missing out on. Germany is beautiful, clean, the people are very nice and friendly, it's incredibly tourist friendly, and there are absolutely fascinating places to visit all over. If you think it's a bunch of racist, no-humor, sausage-eating, robotic people, you will be in for a BIG surprise! I am American and I have to talk up their country for them because the Germans won't do it themselves. They feel they have to pay this pennance to everyone because of the war, so they are afraid to say positive things about their country. The world needs to give Germany a break (the British are the worst). Germany has dealt with it's history in a very admirable way. Go to Berlin the best city in Europe!


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

I think it goes beyond that, Germany suffers from not having an image that it can export easily.

Italy has the upper-class culture as well as the climate, Spain has the climate, France has the upper-class culture, the big city and the climate, the UK has the big city.

Germany has none of these, of course it doesn't mean that the country is less interesting, but it doesn't have the typical aspects that do well in tourism.


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## Darryl (Jan 14, 2007)

eklips said:


> I think it goes beyond that, Germany suffers from not having an image that it can export easily.
> 
> Italy has the upper-class culture as well as the climate, Spain has the climate, France has the upper-class culture, the big city and the climate, the UK has the big city.
> 
> Germany has none of these, of course it doesn't mean that the country is less interesting, but it doesn't have the typical aspects that do well in tourism.


:wtf: 

"Upper-class culture"??? What on earth is that? Germany has one of the most affluent populations in Europe (certainly more so than Italy, it's second largest immigrant group is Italians who moved to Germany for a better life). Berlin is arguably the most cultured city on the continent considering it has double the amount of cultural insitutions (opera, theatre, symphony orchestra, ballet, etc...) due to it's being two cities before the Wall fell.

Germany doesn't have big cities? Berlin, Hamburg, Munich, Cologne, Frankfurt.

Needless to say, I strongly disagree with you.  

Sounds like someone's trying to justify their unfounded predjudice against Germany.


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## Den Antwerpenaar (Apr 28, 2007)

Germany is beautiful. I go there twice a year ! The Eifel and Rheinland Pfalz (Trier, Koblenz, Mayen) are interesting regions! And I've also been in Frankfurt and Berlin ... amazing cities !


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## CORLEONE (Jun 15, 2007)

Darryl said:


> I haven't read through all 10 pages, but why is Germany so underrated?? Everyone always wants to go to London, France, and Italy. People don't realize that Germany is beautiful and worth visiting too. Just because of ridiculous sterotypes from WWII more than 60 years ago?? People, you don't know what you're missing out on. Germany is beautiful, clean, the people are very nice and friendly, it's incredibly tourist friendly, and there are absolutely fascinating places to visit all over. If you think it's a bunch of racist, no-humor, sausage-eating, robotic people, you will be in for a BIG surprise! I am American and I have to talk up their country for them because the Germans won't do it themselves. They feel they have to pay this pennance to everyone because of the war, so they are afraid to say positive things about their country. The world needs to give Germany a break (the British are the worst). Germany has dealt with it's history in a very admirable way. Go to Berlin the best city in Europe!


I said ROME, BERLIN and BARCELONA. I think that Berlin, Postdam, Dresden is wonderful.I´m sorry but I don´t know more than that but I loved it.

I liked the people so much, all polite and helping a lot... we enjoyed like kids...

I´m planing to go in October to visit Munich, Stuttgard, Frankfurt, Dormunt and Bremen. Do you like this trip? In wich city should I stay longer or shorter?


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Not many people have suggested England


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## CORLEONE (Jun 15, 2007)

VaastuShastra said:


> Not many people have suggested England


Think why... After going to London, Brighton, Canterbury, Ray and Battle... I would go directly to Scotland which I think is awesome.

But I think that you can find much nicer things in Germany or France than in England. With all my respects.


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## ^Anton^ (Jan 1, 2007)

This "mine is bigger" fight is starting to get boring...


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## TohrAlkimista (Dec 18, 2006)

We didn't give a nice view of the Europe with this stupid struggle. :no:

anyway probably this guy has already done his trip...


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

Darryl said:


> :wtf:
> 
> "Upper-class culture"??? What on earth is that? Germany has one of the most affluent populations in Europe (certainly more so than Italy, it's second largest immigrant group is Italians who moved to Germany for a better life). Berlin is arguably the most cultured city on the continent considering it has double the amount of cultural insitutions (opera, theatre, symphony orchestra, ballet, etc...) due to it's being two cities before the Wall fell.
> 
> ...


By upper-class culture I for example speak of luxurious gastronomy, something that Italy and France manage to sell more easily than Germany.


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## TohrAlkimista (Dec 18, 2006)

eklips said:


> By upper-class culture I for example speak of luxurious gastronomy, something that Italy and France manage to sell more easily than Germany.


I guess that, for this aspect, they have really few rivals all over the world.


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## Darryl (Jan 14, 2007)

Not a reason I would travel somewhere. There are high class, gourmet restaraunts in every world-class city.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

TohrAlkimista said:


> I guess that, for this aspect, they have really few rivals all over the world.


Japan has lots of very upmarket, very expensive restaurants and other countries are getting much better at this too.

There are now nearly as many Michelin star restaurants in the UK or Germany as there are in Italy, 10-15 years ago, the gap was huge. The quality of cooking lower down the price scale is still generally better in Italy but if we are talking about the top-end, other countries are improving fast.

There are three countries with more michelin stars per population than France, they are Luxembourg, Switzerland.and Belgium.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

CORLEONE said:


> Think why... After going to London, Brighton, Canterbury, Ray and Battle... I would go directly to Scotland which I think is awesome.


You could also go to historic cities like Bath, Oxford, Cambridge, York, Chester, Warwick, Norwich etc. Some of the best cathedrals, castles, manor houses etc in Europe are all in England, fishing villages and beaches in Cornwall, there is good nightlife in most cities, we have a long and varied coastline, the lake district in Cumbria is awesome scenery, North Yorkshire is equally beautiful. These are just a few examples, there are many great places to see in all parts of England.

It cannot be that boring with nothing to see if the UK is No.6 in the world's leading tourist destinations despite not a very good climate and high costs.


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## hix (Jun 11, 2006)

England is great! I always love visiting! The scenery is awesome. The cities and villages are beautifull. The country is not that big so you can visit a lot of cities is a short period. The pubs are super and the nightlife is fantastic. I don't like English food personaly, but that's no problem because you have a great choise in foreign food even in the smaller towns.
It's not that expensive, you can stay in a B&B or you can camp aswell. In the Uk you can make really nice hikes from the south (land's end) to the north.
Friends of mine visited Scotland this summer and they were also impressed. And I've been to Wales aswell and it's really nice there too, with a very interresting language too.
And the Brits are very social, you will make a lot of new friends. :cheers:


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## Darryl (Jan 14, 2007)

CORLEONE said:


> I said ROME, BERLIN and BARCELONA. I think that Berlin, Postdam, Dresden is wonderful.I´m sorry but I don´t know more than that but I loved it.
> 
> I liked the people so much, all polite and helping a lot... we enjoyed like kids...
> 
> I´m planing to go in October to visit Munich, Stuttgard, Frankfurt, Dormunt and Bremen. Do you like this trip? In wich city should I stay longer or shorter?


I like Berlin and Hamburg better than all these cities, but Munich and Stuttgart are nice. I haven't done much in Frankfurt, and have not been to Dortmund or Bremen. I've heard Bremen is very nice though. 

If you have time, you should check out Heidelberg and Rothenburg ob der Tauber! They are amazing!


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

Darryl said:


> Not a reason I would travel somewhere. There are high class, gourmet restaraunts in every world-class city.


True, but what counts here is not reality but how a city/country can manage to export an image of itself.

As for the luxurious "classy" upper-class culture, it goes much beyond gastronomy, I only gave a small example. No place in Germany has the internationnal reputation Florence, Cannes, Monaco or Venice have. I again is not a form of jugement, meraly a personnal observation of how Italy, France and Germany are seen abroad, and why the two former get much more tourists.


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## Tiaren (Jan 29, 2006)

Darryl said:


> I like Berlin and Hamburg better than all these cities, but Munich and Stuttgart are nice. I haven't done much in Frankfurt, and have not been to Dortmund or Bremen. I've heard Bremen is very nice though.
> 
> If you have time, you should check out Heidelberg and Rothenburg ob der Tauber! They are amazing!


I would spent less time in Dortmund. Im sorry, but it's an austere, almost ugly city.
Munich, Heidelberg and Rothenburg are indeed beautiful cities. 

Yeah, Germany sadly is kind of underrated. 
Though Berlin ranks as the third most vistited city of Europe, behind Paris and London.

@eklipse
As if there was only upper class tourism...*sigh*


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

Tiaren, no there isn't. Which is why upper-class tourism is only one of the reasons I listed as to why Germany isn't as popular as some of it's neighors. Other factors being climate, having a megalopolis or being able to advertise your monuments.


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## Darryl (Jan 14, 2007)

Darryl said:


> I haven't read through all 10 pages, but why is Germany so underrated?? Everyone always wants to go to London, France, and Italy. People don't realize that Germany is beautiful and worth visiting too. Just because of ridiculous sterotypes from WWII more than 60 years ago?? People, you don't know what you're missing out on. Germany is beautiful, clean, the people are very nice and friendly, it's incredibly tourist friendly, and there are absolutely fascinating places to visit all over. If you think it's a bunch of racist, no-humor, sausage-eating, robotic people, you will be in for a BIG surprise! I am American and I have to talk up their country for them because the Germans won't do it themselves. They feel they have to pay this pennance to everyone because of the war, so they are afraid to say positive things about their country. The world needs to give Germany a break (the British are the worst). Germany has dealt with it's history in a very admirable way. Go to Berlin the best city in Europe!


Tiaren- 

I have a question. Did you read my post above? If you are German, I would be interested in what your thoughts are on what I said (if you wouldn't mind). Do you agree with my sentiment? Also, if you don't mind, I'd be interested in around how old you are (as that would probably shed some light on your opinions about this topic).

Thanks, and sorry if I put you on the spot and embarrased you.


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## Tiaren (Jan 29, 2006)

Darryl said:


> Tiaren-
> 
> I have a question. Did you read my post above? If you are German, I would be interested in what your thoughts are on what I said (if you wouldn't mind). Do you agree with my sentiment? Also, if you don't mind, I'd be interested in around how old you are (as that would probably shed some light on your opinions about this topic).
> 
> Thanks, and sorry if I put you on the spot and embarrased you.


I totally agree with you! Sadly, it's all true you said. :-(
In fact, I was kind of happy/relieved, reading what you wrote. Though the younger generation (my generation) isn't that pessimistic any more. 
I am 23 years old and yes, I am German (and proud to be )


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## RzgR Spijkenisse (May 16, 2007)

Germany is the country I like the most in Europe. England is nice, but to expensive. I have lived near Trier, where Tiaren lives, for a year in the village of Saarburg. For me Germany is the best country to live in, but not the first country to visit when youre not European.


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## OMH (Aug 21, 2007)

Jonesy55 said:


> You could also go to historic cities like Bath, Oxford, Cambridge, York, Chester, Warwick, Norwich etc. Some of the best cathedrals, castles, manor houses etc in Europe are all in England, fishing villages and beaches in Cornwall, there is good nightlife in most cities, we have a long and varied coastline, the lake district in Cumbria is awesome scenery, North Yorkshire is equally beautiful. These are just a few examples, there are many great places to see in all parts of England.
> 
> It cannot be that boring with nothing to see if the UK is No.6 in the world's leading tourist destinations despite not a very good climate and high costs.


sure...england is sooooooo overrated..almost as overrated as the USA!
hno: there are much nicer places in europe like switzerland,france ,germany,austria or even Czech Republic...there are castles everywhere in europe,not just in england,and i would say Germany has more of them than England! and for nightlife..well i would say spain,Italy or germany might be a bit better !
:cheers:


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## Dtje (Feb 10, 2007)

Brussels Capital of Europe you have all, shopping, culture, archtecture, nightlife and Belgian Beer


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

OMH said:


> sure...england is sooooooo overrated..almost as overrated as the USA!
> hno: there are much nicer places in europe like switzerland,france ,germany,austria or even Czech Republic...there are castles everywhere in europe,not just in england,and i would say Germany has more of them than England! and for nightlife..well i would say spain,Italy or germany might be a bit better !
> :cheers:


:lol: Yes, I admit it, you are right, there is nothing to see in England at all, the tens of millions of tourists who come here every year just sit in the airport for two weeks before returning home hno:

Your opinion is purely subjective and you are entitled to it but don't pretend that your opinion is fact.

I'm not sure why you mentioned the USA in this thread which is about Europe, maybe you just wanted to emphasise that all English-speaking countries are crap, if so that says more about you than the countries themselves, sorry.

Of course I never claimed that ONLY England had castles, that would be stupid, but there are some very nice ones here and they are things tourists like to see. 

It would be equally stupid if I suggested that Germany was crap because although it has castles, so does France so there is no point going to Germany. hno:


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## nelly_the_elephant (Jun 20, 2007)

Jonesy55 said:


> There are now nearly as many Michelin star restaurants in the UK or Germany as there are in Italy, 10-15 years ago, the gap was huge. The quality of cooking lower down the price scale is still generally better in Italy but if we are talking about the top-end, other countries are improving fast.



Absolutely true! Especially the UK took a big step forward! No wonder with half of the world living in its capital and spreading their culinary traditions. The problem of course is that top-end restaurants are out of reach for most of us and as you said the quality of cooking lower down the price scale is better in countries like Spain, Portugal, France, Italy (and may I also say euh...Belgium?)


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

nelly_the_elephant said:


> Absolutely true! Especially the UK took a big step forward! No wonder with half of the world living in its capital and spreading their culinary traditions. The problem of course is that top-end restaurants are out of reach for most of us and as you said the quality of cooking lower down the price scale is better in countries like Spain, Portugal, France, Italy (and may I also say euh...Belgium?)


Yes, Belgium has very good cuisine for Northern Europe, you can't beat a good moules-frites washed down with a good belgian beer :eat: :cheers:

The UK restaurants in the mid-range (£20-£30 for a three course meal and drink) can also be good and they are improving fast, there are several in my town that I would recommend to any visitors but for the cheap meals <£15 for three courses and a drink, I would usually recommend an ethnic restaurant, especially Indian.

The British pubs and cafes in this price range often serve crap from the microwave and while some are good you really need local knowledge to find them as it's not always clear which are good and which are not just from looking and if you just pick one at random, it's quite likely you will get a crap or bland meal.


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## ØlandDK (May 29, 2005)

So where did you go Sen?


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## Federicoft (Sep 26, 2005)

How many people would say these two cities are in the same country?

(Turin)



(Palermo)


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

^^ most people live in heterogenous countries you know


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## gonzo (Jul 30, 2006)

Peshu said:


> What's my city of residence have to do with my nationality ?


I don't know, what?


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## Federicoft (Sep 26, 2005)

eklips said:


> ^^ most people live in heterogenous countries you know


Of course yes, but I really doubt that, say, Newcastle looks so different from Portsmouth, or Lille from Montpellier, or La Coruna from Valencia.

Turin and Palermo again.


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

Well, first of all, architectural diversity is not everything. And the UK is everything but homogenous, although it is true I wouldn't say, from what I have seen that it is as regionnaly diverse as Italy.

For France, I really think that we are as diverse architecturally, I could also put pictures of Dunkerke or Rouen under heavy snow and compare them with summer pics of Bastia or Marseille with palm trees and small mediteranean aleys (look at this thread http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=519286  )

Anyways, really, all the big Euro countries are diverse, Italy, the UK, Spain, France, Germany, Ukraine and of course Russia, the most diverse of all. We just happen to know ours more so we tend to think they are more diverse.


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## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

gonzo said:


> I don't know, what?


You're the one that seemed confuse . Not me .


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

Compared to it's size Slovenia is veeeery diverse.


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## wyqtor (Jan 15, 2007)

Peshu said:


> If people only have that typical image of siestas and fiestas in the middle of a desert . Whell then that's due to total ignorance .


No, actually that's due to the fact that I've actually been to Spain and saw the arid desert around Madrid. Toledo is very nice and impressive though, the desert isn't ugly there.

Of course there are people who think Spain is the most beautiful country in the world (like you), but instead of presenting your opinions as absolute truth in an arrogant way it would be more constructive to show us some pictures to prove your point.


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## willo (Jan 3, 2005)

The desert around Madrid?¿?¿?¿?¿ there' not such desert. the only thing is that the grass is dry and yellow in summer,because it rarely rains in summer (except some storms)

BTW just some diverse: Coruña











Valencia










Granada











Cudillero, Asturias


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## gonzo (Jul 30, 2006)

Peshu said:


> You're the one that seemed confuse . Not me .


Did it occur to you that I wasn't calling you liar but rather I was just curious about your background?


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## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

gonzo said:


> Did it occur to you that I wasn't calling you liar but rather I was just curious about your background?


 O.K


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## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

wyqtor said:


> No, actually that's due to the fact that I've actually been to Spain and saw the arid desert around Madrid. Toledo is very nice and impressive though, the desert isn't ugly there.
> 
> Of course there are people who think Spain is the most beautiful country in the world (like you), but instead of presenting your opinions as absolute truth in an arrogant way it would be more constructive to show us some pictures to prove your point.


 You are quite right . Though Madrid city itself is very green the area around it is incredibly dry . Thing is you only saw a very small piece of the jigsaw puzzle when it comes to the country itself .


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

federicoft said:


> Of course yes, but I really doubt that, say, Newcastle looks so different from Portsmouth, or Lille from Montpellier, or La Coruna from Valencia.


Newcastle



















Portsmouth



















Probably not the two most dissimilar cities in the UK but they are different. And Edinburgh is very different to York which is very different to Bath which is very different to Manchester etc.

There is also lots of variety in the vernacular architecture of rural areas and villages, using various local materials.


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## LeB.Fr (Jun 11, 2007)

Sen said:


> ..visit?
> 
> I am planning to do my first Euro trip sometimes this year, and I dont want to cram 15 cities into 6 days or something lol, so I am only going to one or two countries, what do you guys recommend? and reasons?


Paris is a MUST, so let me suggest:
1)Paris/London
2)Paris/Bruxelles
3)Paris/Barcelona
4)Paris/Milan/Roma
5)Paris/Barcelona/Madrid
6)Paris/Geneve
7)Paris/Milan
8)Paris/Barcelona/Granada


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## vandik (Feb 13, 2007)

Italy of course, that's where the renaissance started! Greece, also would be interesting. After well.... France or Spain and then finally Germany,England or whatever you like.


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## arun' (Apr 21, 2007)

Paris and London? it's quite banal... I recommend you to see more interesting places in Europe. In my opinion there are Stockholm, Salzburg, Luxembourg, Edinburg, Florencia - very cosy cities.


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## GregPz (Oct 30, 2004)

Italy, France and Austria (pick any two) are a pretty good mix.


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## michiel_ (Jun 29, 2007)

If you go in summer, *Greece * (ideal combination of old sights, delicious food, and beaches like heaven!)would also be a good choice, IMO it's with *Italy * (also very much sights and delicious food) the most nice country in Europa. I don't like France that much (been there a lot wirh my parents), it's too expensive and when I went last year in Paris, it was also not what I supposed.
If you don't like rain and nature you can go also to my country, The Netherlands, Amsterdam is a pretty nice city!

Sivota, Greece;









In Greece you can fly to Athens and go by boat to other islands, there are also boats to *Italy*, Turkey (you need a visa) and Israel.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

arun' said:


> Paris and London? it's quite banal... I recommend you to see more interesting places in Europe. In my opinion there are Stockholm, Salzburg, Luxembourg, Edinburg, Florencia - very cosy cities.


Paris and London are popular for a reason, there is lots to see and do. Of course there are many interesting cities but that doesn't mean that London or Paris are not interesting, especially if you have never been to either city.

They are two of the most expensive cities in Europe though.


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## butch83 (Mar 24, 2006)

Well If i was to go to Europe for the 1st time Id avoid overcrowded touristic places like London and Paris.
These are for monkeys that must be told where and what to do.
You will just strengten Your stereotypes there, You will see what U have seen thousand times on tv, newspapers, books, net...


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