# MINNEAPOLIS | Public Transport



## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

*Minneapolis / St Paul*

Here is a map I made (Southwest corridor excluded because there are still 3 possible routes.)




Photos (*ALL FROM THE INTERNET, NONE BY ME*:







































*Hiawatha Line*

The Hiawatha Line is a 12-mile (19-kilometer) light-rail corridor in Hennepin County, Minnesota that extends from downtown Minneapolis to the southern suburb of Bloomington, connecting to the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport and the Mall of America, among other destinations. Groundbreaking for the line took place on January 17, 2001. Regular service began on a first phase of the line on June 26, 2004, with the second phase opening later that year on December 4. Each opening was accompanied with two days of free rides on the train and area buses. The line was tested for months before opening, with regular service simulated for about a month before each phase went online. It is operated by the Metro Transit division of the Metropolitan Council, which is also the largest operator of buses in the area.


Each of the 17 stations along the route are designed to have a unique architecture reflecting the neighborhood they stand in. This is not an entirely new idea for the region, as many of the higher-traffic bus stops around the city have distinct designs. Due to the unique makeup of Minneapolis's population, ticket-dispensing machines present instructions in four languages: English, Spanish, Somali, and Hmong. The 17 stations are listed below. Travel time is two to three minutes between each stop; the time between the two terminals of the airport is slightly shorter. The airport used to operate a bus shuttle between the two terminals, but the light-rail line has supplanted that service. It is free to ride between those two stops.

In the upcoming months and years the Hiawatha Line will be extended by a few blocks to the new Minneapolis Multi-Modal Station, at the current end of the line of the Hennepin Ave/Warehouse District Station to meet up with the future Northstar Corridor and will be built right next door to the new Minnesota Twins ballpark.
It is also likely that one station will also be added in Bloomington between the Humphrey Terminal station and Bloomington central Station at American Boulevard.

The Hiawatha Line uses 27 Flexity Swift trams manufactured by Bombardier, electrically powered by overhead lines. The system is designed to output 750 volts of direct current. Trains can reach speeds of 55 miles per hour, but the “general service speed” is about 40 mph or slower (especially in the congested downtown region). They are of a 70% low-floor design, meaning that 70 percent of the floor inside is within about 14 inches (36 cm) of the ground. This is the same height as the rail platforms, allowing stepless access for passengers dependent on wheelchairs or other mobility aids. The feature also makes it easier for passengers with bicycles or strollers to board the train. Each vehicle weighs about 107,000 pounds (48,500 kg) when empty. The Minneapolis installation is the first use of this model in the United States

From Wikipedia

*Central Corridor*

The Central Corridor is the 11-mile stretch between the downtown regions of Minneapolis and Saint Paul in Minnesota, which is currently proceeding with engineering work for a future light rail line to stem the growth of traffic congestion. The line is expected to follow the path of the current Metro Transit bus routes 16 and 50 along the combination of University Avenue and Washington Avenue (which runs from downtown Minneapolis past the University of Minnesota.

From Wikipedia


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## Tcmetro (Jun 9, 2007)

Some upcoming projects for the Hiawatha Line are extending the platforms for 3-car trains.

A new station will open in 2010 between Humphrey Terminal and Bloominton Central. It will be located at 34th Avenue and American Boulevard.

The Minneapolis Multimodal station will open in 2008 or 2009 and will serve the new Twins Stadium, and the Northstar Commuter Rail (scheduled to open in Nov. 2009).


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

A station is missing on the map: Fort Snelling, bettewin Linbergh Ternimal and VA Medical Center


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

why does it take so long for them to approve and build this thing? the city could really use it.


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## mr.x (Jul 30, 2004)

those are some really nice trains, and a nice paint scheme as well....beats "The Tide".


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## Yardmaster (Jun 1, 2004)

^^ good to see that Minneapolis / St. Paul has defected to Canada.


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## BoulderGrad (Jun 29, 2005)

What have the ridership numbers for the start line been like so far?


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## Tcmetro (Jun 9, 2007)

I think it is either 28,000 or 33,000 per day now. 2020 estimates for the line were 19,000. The Central Corridor will open in 2014 and will have about 40,000 riders. Southwest will not open for a while and probably won't start engineering until 2010 or further. SW will have 26-29,000 riders per day.

The cars are Bombardier Flexity Swift, built in Mexico, and modified for a limited stop operation. The cars are also used on tram lines in Europe, as well as the Docklands Light Railway in London, and in Stockholm.

The Hiawatha Line from end to end takes 36-37 minutes, and with new stations being added it will take 40-41 minutes. 

The Central Corridor will take about 35 minutes.

The Southwest Corridor will probably take 30-40 minutes (no estimates have been done).

A commuter rail will start in 2009 connecting Minneapolis and Big Lake (eventually to Saint Cloud). It will use trains simular to Sounder in Seattle, and GO Transit in Toronto. There will be 4 commuter trips and 1 reverse commuter trip each way on Weekdays. There will be 3 trips each way on Weekends.

There are several other plans for Commuter rail in the Red Rock, and Rush Line corridors.

There are BRT plans for Cedar Ave, Interstate 35W, and Bottineau Boulevard.

Here are links:

www.metrotransit.org/rail Hiawatha Line
www.centralcorridor.org Will redirect to Met Council page.
www.southwesttransitway.org


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## milwaukee-københavn (Jun 21, 2006)

> Mayor Rybak Supports Transportation Proposals
> Mayor’s 2007 Budget Supports Streetcars and Changes to Downtown Traffic Flow
> 
> MINNEAPOLIS, MN -- Minneapolis Mayor R.T. Rybak today announced support for major proposed changes to the City’s downtown transportation system and renewed his call to return streetcars to replace buses on key Minneapolis transit routes.
> ...


I don't know how far the streetcar proposals have come along, but they look interesting.


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## BoulderGrad (Jun 29, 2005)

^^Light rail and Metros I am 100% for most of the places they are being constructed. I'm still not 100% on all these streetcars going in around the country (Portland, Seattle, Cincy, etc.). Beyond the strange fact that slightly more people would be willing to take "the trolley" rather than "the bus", what advantages do they have over buses to justify the extra expense of placing rail. They both have the same capacity, same speed, very similar operating costs etc. Besides places where they've given the street car dedicated lanes and traffic signal control, why are these a more popular transit development than improving bus system efficiency?


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## tampasteve (Aug 8, 2007)

BoulderGrad said:


> ^^Light rail and Metros I am 100% for most of the places they are being constructed. I'm still not 100% on all these streetcars going in around the country (Portland, Seattle, Cincy, etc.). Beyond the strange fact that slightly more people would be willing to take "the trolley" rather than "the bus", what advantages do they have over buses to justify the extra expense of placing rail. They both have the same capacity, same speed, very similar operating costs etc. Besides places where they've given the street car dedicated lanes and traffic signal control, why are these a more popular transit development than improving bus system efficiency?


Several reasons come to mind:
1. Most of the systems are built with the ability to change them to LRT with the addition of only new train sets, Tampa is an example of that. Our system could be changed into a light rail line overnight if we had the trains.

2. Perception. In the US (most cities anyways) people percieve the bus as a transit system of the lower class. Street cars do not have this perception. 

3. In some areas a starter line can be built as a tourist line with heritage cars, as is the case here in Tampa. When the street car/trolley was being debated there was little to no hope that a LRT line would be installed.

4. While operational costs are _similar_ over time they are lower for street cars than buses.

5. Area development. Street cars and LRT have shown time and again that people are willing to invest in new projects along a line, something that is rare to never along a bus route.

Steve


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## Jim856796 (Jun 1, 2006)

Should the Hiawatha Line and the proposed Central, Southwest, and Robert Street Corridors be merged into one light rail transit system, If so,I would name it "The Minneapolis Metro Transit System".


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## milwaukee-københavn (Jun 21, 2006)

www.metrotransit.org : Metro Transit- A service of the Metropolitan Council. Already done.


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## astraluko (Apr 7, 2006)

[URL="[/URL]


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## astraluko (Apr 7, 2006)

http://www.fotazas.com/photo_myzowbwcdy4iowcjjmod.jpg.htm


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

The Central Corridor will be very interesting when it finally finishes, good news for the Twin Cities.


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## greg_christine (Jan 25, 2004)

tampasteve said:


> Several reasons come to mind:
> 1. Most of the systems are built with the ability to change them to LRT with the addition of only new train sets, Tampa is an example of that. Our system could be changed into a light rail line overnight if we had the trains.
> 
> 2. Perception. In the US (most cities anyways) people percieve the bus as a transit system of the lower class. Street cars do not have this perception.
> ...


Regarding the relative capital and operating costs for streetcars and buses, the following are some numbers from a Sound Transit study to serve the First Hill area of Seattle:

Capital Cost
Streetcar: $129.7 - $149.2 million
Electric Trolley Bus: $13.4 - $15.4 million

Annual Operating Cost:
Streetcar: $5.2 million
Electric Trolley Bus: $3.5 million

Despite the massive cost advantage of the electric trolley bus option, Sound Transit wishes to pursue the streetcar option. Part of the rationale is that the streetcar option would bring higher ridership. The flaw in the argument is that an entire trolley bus network that would bring far higher ridership could be built for the cost of the single streetcar line.

Another argument in favor of the streetcar option is that it attracts development. The counter argument is that it focuses development in a single area of a city at the expense of other areas. Also, there are other factors that need to be in place in order for streetcars to have the desired effect in attracting development. The segment of the light rail line along Howard Street in Baltimore is an example where light rail has failed to attract development. A mile to the east, the Fell's Point area is booming despite the fact that it has no rail transit service. On Howard Street, the light rail tracks pass in front of boarded-up buildings:


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

> The counter argument is that it focuses development in a single area of a city at the expense of other areas.


Which ignores the benefits of leverage along those lines, like better walkability and less car dependence. Local centers of neighborhoods are exactly what cities need. Trams, but also light rail or subway are helping to create something like that. As you mentioned above, busses are not as good in causing that development. 

That means those lines help increasing their own ridership, because things tend to concentrate aroudn the stations making the track increasingly more attractive for many people.

Of course a PT line is no garantee for development, but in city planning nothing is for sure, never.


PS:
What causes those higher operating costs of the tram line in comparision to electric trolley buses? What is included in these annual costs? I have already read about lines where the operating and maintenance costs of comparable streetcar and bus routes showed a 4 times higher number for the bus system. If I remember correctly.


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## milwaukee-københavn (Jun 21, 2006)

Baltimore and Minneapolis are very different cities. It would be unfair to expect development around the entire length of the rail system in Baltimore for a number of reasons:

1. Baltimore is a very economically depressed city. While I imagine that its extensive rail system has helped shelter the city from further decline, it won't fix years worth of social issues.

2. Baltimore has a relitavely extensive rail system. It would be nearly impossible for the city given its current socio-economic situation to support development along the entire length of the system.

Minneapolis is an economically prosperous city that has been experiencing significant development, especially along its current rail line. The light rail and streetcar lines are proposed or planned to complement and strengthen the development patterns that are already in place and help reduce bus congestion. They are also being planned by a relitavely progressive city government that has been very aggresive in addressing the other socio-economic issues that stang in the way of city-wide redevelopment.


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## Tcmetro (Jun 9, 2007)

In Minneapolis planning for light rail and subways has been going on since the early 1970s. Only did the LRT construction start in 2001.


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## greg_christine (Jan 25, 2004)

milwaukee-københavn said:


> Baltimore and Minneapolis are very different cities. It would be unfair to expect development around the entire length of the rail system in Baltimore for a number of reasons:
> 
> 1. Baltimore is a very economically depressed city. While I imagine that its extensive rail system has helped shelter the city from further decline, it won't fix years worth of social issues.
> 
> ...


Of the large cities on the Northeast Corridor (Washington, Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York, and Boston), Baltimore has the least developed rail transit system. There is one heavy rail metro line that is 15.2 miles in length and has 14 stations and a daily ridership of 45,000. 










There is also a light rail system that is 30 miles in length and has 33 stations and a daily ridership of 24,500.










The light rail system is shown on transit maps as having three routes but in reality it is a single line with two short spurs. Only three stations are not on the main trunk of the system.

It is true that much of the city of Baltimore is economically depressed; however, parts of the city are thriving and the metropolitan area that stretches from Washington to Baltimore is booming. As I mentioned in a previous post, one of the most vibrant neighborhoods in central Baltimore is Fells Point. It is not served by rail transit. Meanwhile, sections of Howard Street that are directly on the light rail line remain derelict.

The point of this is that there is a limit to what rail transit can do in guiding development. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.


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## greg_christine (Jan 25, 2004)

Slartibartfas said:


> Which ignores the benefits of leverage along those lines, like better walkability and less car dependence. Local centers of neighborhoods are exactly what cities need. Trams, but also light rail or subway are helping to create something like that. As you mentioned above, busses are not as good in causing that development.
> 
> That means those lines help increasing their own ridership, because things tend to concentrate aroudn the stations making the track increasingly more attractive for many people.
> 
> ...


The only comparisons in which I've seen higher operating costs quoted for buses compared to light rail are based on average cost per passenger for an entire network of bus lines. It's an apples and oranges comparison as the typical bus line has a ridership potential too low to be a candidate for conversion to light rail. The Orange Line BRT and Gold Line LRT in Los Angeles offer a good comparison for lines of similar length and with similar features that operate through areas of similar population density in the same city:

Opening Date
Orange Line BRT: October 29, 2005
Gold Line LRT: July 26, 2003

Route Length
Orange Line BRT: 14 miles
Gold Line LRT: 13.7 miles

Stations
Orange Line BRT: 13
Gold Line LRT: 13

Average Weekday Ridership
Orange Line BRT: 25,618
Gold Line LRT: 19,579

Cost of System
Orange Line BRT: $330 million
Gold Line LRT: $859 million

FY 2008 Operations Budget
Orange Line BRT: $21 million
Gold Line LRT: $42 million



















The Orange Line BRT operates on its own right-of-way except where it crosses intersecting streets and at short turn-around areas at the ends of the line. It has many of the features of LRT including off-vehicle fare payment and traffic signal priority. Despite its relative low cost and high ridership compared to the light rail Gold Line, I have seen little enthusiam among transit agencies for considering BRT in lieu of LRT. Trains carry greater prestige. Las Vegas is the only city that I am aware of that seriously considered both LRT and BRT and chose the BRT option.


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## tampasteve (Aug 8, 2007)

Greg_Christine,
Verry good points about the rail, BRT, and Trolly buses. My comments were aimed at standard bus service not the other two (especially trolley buses). ROW BRT can work very well. I still stand by that people will and are far more willing to ride a train than any bus, at least in the USA. I rode the Charlotte Blue Line last week. In the words of fellow riders when they were talking to the conductor:

Conductor: "So, is there a reason so many kids are on the train to DT today that I do not know about"

Riders with kids:"No, we just wanted to take the kids on a ride on the train"

That comment would NEVER happen with a new bus line. Of course joy riders will not make a system viable in the long term, but they do help in the start.

Now, with that said, it is very true that sometimes BRT will work better, it really depends on the situation. Also, politically, trains are an easier sell to the public - esppecially if a tax is involved. The USA generally has issues with people seeing buses as transit for people that cannot afford cars. I certainly do NOT agree with that, but it is a fact. 

Choice riders (people that can drive their car but choose not to) are more attracted to trains than a bus, no matter what city we are talking about. I would really like to see statistics that show the amount of choice riders using a given transit type. 

However, with that said, the main issue is that BRT and trolley buses are generally not well executed. The system in LA is not the normal BRT system. It was well conceived and executed properly, it is a great example of what BRT should be, but it is not the normal BRT line in the US by any stretch of the imagination. Generally BRT is just a fancy bus in the normal traffic lanes with better stops and information at the stops, what is billed as "BRT" should really be what all of our bus lines are like.

So, I guess I am saying that I am for any well executed transit system that benefits the people of a metro area, be it BRT, LRT, Heavy Rail, Commuter rail, or a regular bus network.

Steve


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

tampasteve said:


> So, I guess I am saying that I am for any well executed transit system that benefits the people of a metro area, be it BRT, LRT, Heavy Rail, Commuter rail, or a regular bus network.
> 
> Steve


That sounds like a reasonable stance. 

I have to say however that I also myself appreciate tramways more than bus lines. I guess most people in Vienna will think of the streetcars better than of the busses. I dont know if this is based on reason, but its a fact. 



I know this is from a biased page, but its sounded rather reasonably what they wrote:

http://www.lightrailnow.org/myths/m_mythlog001.htm#STL_20070531
http://www.lightrailnow.org/facts/fa_brt_2006-08a.htm


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## greg_christine (Jan 25, 2004)

^^ Light Rail Now makes some of the boldest claims of any transit advocacy website. Consider the relative cost claims made in the article at the following link based on the light rail and bus systems in St. Louis:

http://www.lightrailnow.org/myths/m_mythlog001.htm#STL_20070531



> It is particularly interesting to note that, even with its heavy capital costs, when operational costs are considered, St. Louis Metro's LRT in this period exhibits total costs slightly less than the agency's bus operations. However, higher total passenger-mileage was carried on the bus system, so a more complete analysis would require taking into consideration the differing life-cycle costs for each mode (e.g., railcars last considerably longer than motor buses) by annualizing capital costs.
> 
> To obtain a total annualized cost figure for each mode, capital costs were annualized using common economic analysis (see discussion below). Annual operating costs were averaged for the 10-year period, as was annual passenger-mileage for each mode – reflecting the advantages of the longer lives of both LRT infrastructure and rolling stock.
> 
> ...


St. Louis has two light rail lines and dozens of bus routes. Many of the bus routes serve less densely populated suburban areas and feed passengers into the light rail routes. The typical bus route has a ridership potential too low to be a candidate for conversion to light rail. The costs per passenger-mile quoted in the article are skewed by the fact that many of the buses operate on routes with low ridership potential.

It is useful to compare the rhetoric from both sides. The following website is critical of the light rail system in St. Louis:

http://www.publicpurpose.com/ut-stl-lr94.htm

The following graphic from the above website shows bus ridership in yellow and light rail ridership in green:










It makes the story that light rail has done little to improve overall transit ridership in St. Louis and that the high cost of light rail may actually have contributed to the degredation of the bus service. I don't agree with many of the claims of this article. There are no doubt other factors that contributed to the drop in overall usage of transit services, but the article does make an interesting counterpoint to the Light Rail Now article. The ridership curves end in 2004. I belive recent extensions of the light rail system have resulted in a large boost in ridership.

Now, consider the ridership claims made in the second Light Rail Now article:

http://www.lightrailnow.org/facts/fa_brt_2006-08a.htm



> Los Angeles, 2003-2006 – Two recent public transit facilities of nearly the same length – the Gold Line LRT (a 13.7-mile line opened in July 2003, serving the Pasadena area northeast of central LA) and the Orange Line "BRT" service (a 14-mile busway, opened in October 2005, operating predominantly on a dedicated busway through the San Fernando Valley) – seem to invite comparison. However, it must be emphasized that the two lines serve corridors with dramatically different characteristics.
> 
> The Orange Line busway operates in a much more mature transit corridor with a population within 0.5-mile of the line 42% greater than that along the Gold Line. In addition, the Orange Line serves at least 40% more major activity centers than does the Gold Line. [9, 10; population analysis by Darrell Clarke; other analysis by LRN]
> 
> ...


I completely disagree with Light Rail Now's analysis of the relative ridership of the lines. I've been through the areas that each line operates and I am dubious of the claim that the Orange Line corridor is more densely populated. Also, the Gold Line has a much better route in my opinion. The terminus of the Gold Line is at Union Station on the perimeter of the main business district in downtown Los Angeles and connects directly to the Red Line Metro and the Metrolink commuter rail services. By comparison, the Orange Line has its terminus at the northern end of one of the branches of the Red Line Metro.

I do agree that the higher service frequency of the Orange Line contributes to its higher ridership. The Gold Line operates two-car trains with a capacity of about 300 passengers at fifteen minute headways for much of the day. The Orange Line operates 60-foot articulated buses with a capacity of only about 100 passengers at five minute headways for much of the day. The higher capacity of the light rail trains is actually a disadvantage in this instance as it has resulted in the transit agency choosing to operate trains at longer headways.

The Light Rail Now article is one of the few instances in which I've seen a number placed on the claim of the public being biased in favor of light rail over buses. Often when visiting a new city, I will spend an afternoon riding the rail transit lines but I have never gone out of my way to ride a bus line, so I can provide my own proof that a bias in favor of rail exists. The question that should be asked is whether this bias is enough to offset the added cost of light rail. Despite my qualms with Light Rail Now's analysis, I'll assume that their claim of a 24% ridership bias in favor of light rail is correct. Consider the numbers from the comparison of the Orange Line BRT and Gold Line LRT:

Cost of System
Orange Line BRT: $330 million
Gold Line LRT: $859 million

FY 2008 Operations Budget
Orange Line BRT: $21 million
Gold Line LRT: $42 million

The Gold Line cost more than twice as much to build and costs twice as much to operate. If LRT costs twice as much but garners only 24% greater ridership, BRT could still be considered the winner. To put it another way, a BRT line could be built twice as long as an LRT line for the same amount of money and this would more than offset the public ridership bias in favor of light rail.

I consider myself to be a supporter of light rail and rail transit in general and I certainly prefer light rail over buses; however, I don't buy any of the claims that light rail is more cost effective.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

greg_christine said:


> Cost of System
> Orange Line BRT: $330 million
> Gold Line LRT: $859 million
> 
> ...


I know your view is of course far superior to mine as you do know the details and you know the lines.

What I don't get though is how the operational costs can be two times as high for the Gold line. I would be very interested why this is the case. What makes the light rail so much more expensive in operation? Are there any numbers in detail or comparative studies?

I can not serve with any numbers, but I always thought that at least in Vienna which has in fact a very large tramway network (with one real light rail line interwebbed with it), the operation costs of are not inferior to the bus service, rather the opposite).
I think one major factor are the cost of maintenance of road or raillines. For the light rail the total costs are often added to the costs, for the bus service often nothing at all. Even though the bus service through its own operation and the heavy weight of the busses very well causes damages that have to be repaired regarding the street. The way you define and include those costs has a major impact on the overall maintenance costs. 


I know that is yet another railway fan page I quote, but on the page of the PT-Vienna-fanclub (the page hosts bus as well as tram supporters though as both are important parts of the Viennese PT system), someone claimed that at the same high capacities, tramways are cheaper than busses. He further claims that the break through for the tramway is when a bus line needs a large capacity bus every 5 min to cope with the demand, when the costs of the rail are fully applied to the tramway, but the costs for the roadmaintenance are completely ignored for the bus. When you handle those costs differently, the break even point for the tramway comes already earlier. And of course does it matter how you handle the variable and fix costs...


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## greg_christine (Jan 25, 2004)

^^ Usually, a large part of the explanation is that the transit agency does not pay for the maintenance of the traffic lanes for buses but does pay for the maintenance of the tracks for trains; however, this explanation does not apply for the Orange Line in Los Angeles. The right of way is a former rail corridor. The transit agency paid to have it paved as a busway and I believe the transit agency pays for its maintenance.

The Orange Line probably would have been built as light rail if it were not for interference from the state legislature. A local member of the state legislature pushed through a measure that required any rail transit line in the corridor to be in a tunnel. He was trying to force the line to be an extension of the Red Line metro. Instead, the result was that light rail could not be built, so the project became BRT.

The following are some cost estimates from various transit studies that I have found on the Internet:

VANCOUVER - COQUITLAM/EVERGREEN LINE
Capital Cost
- Guided Buses: $285 Million
- Light Rail: $670 Million
- Skytrain: $840 Million
Operations and Maintenance Costs per Passenger Boarding
- Guided Buses: $4.10 /Passenger
- Light Rail: $6.95 /Passenger
- Skytrain: $4.30 /Passenger
Selected Mode: Light Rail

LAS VEGAS - HENDERSON TO NORTH LAS VEGAS
Capital Cost
- Bus Rapid Transit: $700 Million
- Light Rail: $1,115 Million
Operations & Maintenance Cost
- Bus Rapid Transit: $218 Million/Year
- Light Rail: $203 Million/Year
Selected Mode: Bus Rapid Transit

SAN JOSE - WARM SPRINGS BART CONNECTOR
Capital Cost
- Busway BRT: $1,155 Million
- Light Rail: $1,514 Million
- BART: $3,710 Million
Operations & Maintenance Cost
- Busway BRT: $19.5 Million/Year
- Light Rail: $41.8 Million/Year
- BART: $63.0 Million/Year
Selected Mode: BART

NEWPORT NEWS, VIRGINIA
Capital Cost
- Bus Rapid Transit: $178 Million
- Light Rail: $250 Million
Operations & Maintenance Cost
- Bus Rapid Transit: $4.7 Million/Year
- Light Rail: $9 Million/Year
Selected Mode: No decision yet.

SEATTLE - I-90 TRANS-LAKE WASHINGTON LINE
Capital Cost
- Busway BRT: $3.1 - $4.2 Billion 
- Rail Convertible BRT: $3.7 - $5.0 Billion
- Light Rail: $4.6 - $6.2 Billion
Operations & Maintenance Cost (Net change relative to common baseline)
- Busway BRT: -$5.5 million/year
- Rail Convertible BRT: -$17.2 Million/Year
-Light Rail: +$29.0 Million/Year
Selected Mode: Light Rail

SEATTLE - CAPITOL HILL STREETCAR STUDY
Capital Cost
- Electric Trolley Bus: $13.4 - $15.4 million
- Streetcar: $129.7 - $149.2 million
Annual Operating Cost
- Electric Trolley Bus: $3.5 million
- Streetcar: $5.2 million
Selected Mode: Streetcar

The interesting thing about the above list is that Las Vegas is the only place where BRT was selected despite the fact that it was the only place where LRT was predicted to have lower operating costs. It seems that these decisions seldom hinge on cost.

Higher riderhship is often the rationale used for selecting light rail. A major issue for projects for which federal funding is sought is that FTA guidelines do not allow for a ridership bias in favor of rail. Under the guidelines, bus and rail options with equal travel times and equal headways would be predicted to have equal ridership. I have heard rumors that the FTA guidelines may be changing to allow for a bias in favor of rail.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

greg_christine said:


> ^^ Usually, a large part of the explanation is that the transit agency does not pay for the maintenance of the traffic lanes for buses but does pay for the maintenance of the tracks for trains; however, this explanation does not apply for the Orange Line in Los Angeles. The right of way is a former rail corridor. The transit agency paid to have it paved as a busway and I believe the transit agency pays for its maintenance.


I guess this argument evaporates as well if the Public transport is run by a city owned company like it is the case in Vienna 

I want to add however that even if it is private run, this view is rather short sighted. Because if the transit agency does not pay for the stress it causes on the streets, someone else has to, which will to a large extend the tax payer anyway. I mean just because the transit agency gets away without the need to pay for it, does not mean that the costs for the society go away.

Private run companies may not care about the greater good, city authorities however should. 



What I dont get though is, what that "Bus Rapid Transport" should be. I mean I have seen pictures and I have read about it, but I still dont get. It looks for me rather like an PR thing. Call the bus BRT and hope that people forget their rail bias.

What has this BRT that makes it so special?
Large busses, stops that are like the ones of streetcars, bus lanes? If thats all, I'll call that "BRT" simply "bus", because thats nothing the bus system in Vienna would not know as well. Perhaps I have overlooked something, then I would be pleased if you help me out.


> The Orange Line probably would have been built as light rail if it were not for interference from the state legislature. A local member of the state legislature pushed through a measure that required any rail transit line in the corridor to be in a tunnel. He was trying to force the line to be an extension of the Red Line metro. Instead, the result was that light rail could not be built, so the project became BRT.
> 
> The following are some cost estimates from various transit studies that I have found on the Internet:
> 
> ...


thank you for the numbers, but is it possible to get numbers on what those operational costs of bus vs light rail consist of? I really am interested on why exactly the calculations see the bus to be cheaper in maintenance than light rail in most cases. 

Thats what I simply dont get. If rideship bias provenly exists, that it is forbidden to involve it into calculations. I mean ridership predictions are at the very core of any efficiency analysis, the guidlines however force the responsible persons to ignore this important issue. Thats irrational. 

If the FTA is going to change this, I support this step. I mean, I dont care if there is a bias towards bus or railbound systems, but its stupid to force the authorities to ignore this important factor.


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## Tcmetro (Jun 9, 2007)

BRT is only truely effective if it is built like it was in Ottawa. Express and local lanes, divided, grade-seperated, stations. Now all they need is level boarding . At the time LRT and BRT would have cost the same and the LRT would draw more riders, but they built the BRT for some odd reason.


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## milwaukee-københavn (Jun 21, 2006)

They built BRT because it was started in the 1970's at the height of the bus craze and the busway was supposed to be a showpiece of Canada's bus industries. The system is designed so that local buses can wind through neighbourhoods before joining up with the busway and becoming express routes. Ottawa currently has plans to convert the system to LRT based on the success of their O-train.


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## chromebowler (Dec 8, 2005)

delete.


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## Somnifor (Sep 6, 2005)

*Central Corridor planners approve the St Paul-Minneapolis rail route*

Needless to say this will be a big deal for the Twin Cities, especially St Paul. 

From today's St Paul Pioneer Press:

*Central Corridor planners approve the St. Paul-Minneapolis rail route*
While the decision is historic, many major issues must be resolved.
By Dave Orrick 
[email protected]
Article Last Updated: 02/28/2008 06:32:11 AM CST

We have a route. 

Not proposed, not envisioned, but planned — and supported by just about every public official with a say in it. 

That's the bottom line after two votes Wednesday chose the route of the Central Corridor light-rail line linking downtown St. Paul and Minneapolis via University Avenue. 

What we'll get is a $909.1 million, 11-mile, 20-station train running every 7 minutes, 30 seconds, 21 hours a day, seven days a week for a fare price that likely will be comparable to a bus ticket. 

Decades of on-again, off-again hopes for such a connection coalesced in recent weeks as political, civic and business leaders compromised under the hammer of a looming federal deadline. 

"This is a quantum leap forward," said Peter Bell, chairman of the Metropolitan Council, which will build the line beginning in 2010 and run trains starting in 2014. 

"To get Minneapolis, St. Paul, Hennepin County, Ramsey County, leaders of the Legislature, the University of Minnesota and the FTA (Federal Transit Administration) anywhere near the same page, much less on the same page, is amazing." 

While many leaders called the votes historic, plenty of questions remain. 

If the federal government signs off on the plan, the line will transform areas in its path, and no one has yet figured out exactly how. For example: 

-- A six-block stretch of Washington Avenue through the University of Minnesota will be closed to cars — and possibly buses — to make way 
for the two-car trains. Streets surrounding the U's East Bank and West Bank campuses will be significantly altered to handle the traffic; no one yet knows how. 
-- University Avenue will be ripped up and resurfaced to accommodate trains running down the middle. Bus schedules will be altered, with some service being eliminated, some scaled back and two north-south routes added. Of the 1,156 curbside parking spaces now serving the thoroughfare's businesses, many will be gone. No one knows how many or how to deal with it. No parking lots are planned. 

-- Downtown St. Paul will see trains running along Cedar Street, with parking eliminated and southbound traffic reduced to one lane. The block bounded by Cedar, Minnesota, Fourth and Fifth streets will be diagonally bisected to accommodate the tracks and a station. Along Fourth Street, parking will be eliminated and traffic reduced to one lane — no one knows which way yet — as the train travels to Union Depot in Lowertown, where more roads and potentially buildings will be altered by tracks leading to a train maintenance yard near the Lafayette Bridge over the Mississippi River. 

-- The previously rail-less region will have a virtual transit party at the new Minnesota Twins stadium in downtown Minneapolis. There, riders from the Hiawatha Line (serving the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport and the Mall of America), the planned Northstar Line (serving Hennepin and Anoka counties and points northwest) and the Central Corridor will share a station. 

It took plenty of compromising to get there. 

The U gave up on hopes for a tunnel beneath Washington Avenue on the East Bank campus. 

Ramsey County gave up, at least for now, on plans to bring the train to the backside of Union Depot, where it could link with other envisioned transit lines. 

And St. Paul and Ramsey County leaders agreed three additional stations along University Avenue — at Hamline Avenue, Victoria Street and Western Avenue — must take a back seat. 

Infrastructure for them will be "roughed in," but the only way any will be built before 2014 is if the federal government changes its funding formula, or if other parts of the project appear to be cheaper than now thought. If that happens, building at least one of the stations is top priority, leaders agreed Wednesday. 

The Met Council overwhelmingly approved the route Wednesday evening. Hours earlier, a key advisory panel, which includes St. Paul Mayor Chris Coleman, Minneapolis Mayor R.T. Rybak and representatives from the Hennepin and Ramsey county boards and the University of Minnesota, unanimously approved the route. 

On Monday, key leaders from the state House and Senate signed off on it during an informal meeting. Bell is appointed by Gov. Tim Pawlenty, who has said he'll support the plan if everyone involved agrees, though a funding plan for the state's share of the cost — about $300 million — has not been formed. 

The federal government, which will pay half the construction cost, must give its approval — a lengthy process that will formally begin in September, when the Met Council submits detailed engineering studies of how the project will be built. Officials are confident the plan has a good chance because the route approved Wednesday meets the FTA's complex funding formula. 

"Transit funding can have more drama than Lindsay Lohan's social life," Rybak observed. 

Indeed, a lot must be done before September, Bell said, "particularly at the university." 

The U's Board of Regents has yet to address the route approved Wednesday, and Kathleen O'Brien, vice president for university services, said her vote in favor of the plan was "with reservations." 

The U plans to continue studying its preferred options, a pair of paths through Dinkytown and along the northern edge of campus, where a series of new research and academic facilities are planned. Detailed studies on that route won't be available until May or June. 

If it turns out that such a route is cheaper or better, officials could decide to go with it, but the move would delay the project at least a year. 

O'Brien said her vote in favor of the Washington Avenue ground-level route was largely because the U doesn't want to force an unwarranted delay. 

Bell said he's especially concerned about the impact of the so-called "transit mall" that would replace Washington Avenue between Coffman Memorial Union and McNamara Alumni Center. 

Although it is not definite, Bell and others involved said it is unlikely cars would be able to use the Washington Avenue Bridge over the Mississippi River, creating a traffic engineering imbroglio. 

The plan adopted Wednesday calls for $39 million to deal with traffic snarls created by trains along the entire length of the line, and Bell said he fears, given the scenario at the U, the amount is "woefully inadequate." 

The issue could be clarified by March 12, the next scheduled meeting of the advisory panel and the Met Council. 

The Central Corridor will be the region's second light-rail line since streetcars disappeared half a century ago. The Hiawatha Line opened in 2004 and has exceeded ridership projections by 65 percent, according to the Met Council.

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_8386089?nclick_check=1


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## Yardmaster (Jun 1, 2004)

Sounds good to me! Congratulations!


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Good , i'm going to update my M-SP metro thread.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

For the construction of the Corridor:

-- A six-block stretch of Washington Avenue through the University of Minnesota will be closed to cars — and possibly buses — to make way 
for the two-car trains. Streets surrounding the U's East Bank and West Bank campuses will be significantly altered to handle the traffic; no one yet knows how. 
-- University Avenue will be ripped up and resurfaced to accommodate trains running down the middle. Bus schedules will be altered, with some service being eliminated, some scaled back and two north-south routes added. Of the 1,156 curbside parking spaces now serving the thoroughfare's businesses, many will be gone. No one knows how many or how to deal with it. No parking lots are planned. 

-- Downtown St. Paul will see trains running along Cedar Street, with parking eliminated and southbound traffic reduced to one lane. The block bounded by Cedar, Minnesota, Fourth and Fifth streets will be diagonally bisected to accommodate the tracks and a station. Along Fourth Street, parking will be eliminated and traffic reduced to one lane — no one knows which way yet — as the train travels to Union Depot in Lowertown, where more roads and potentially buildings will be altered by tracks leading to a train maintenance yard near the Lafayette Bridge over the Mississippi River. 

-- The previously rail-less region will have a virtual transit party at the new Minnesota Twins stadium in downtown Minneapolis. There, riders from the Hiawatha Line (serving the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport and the Mall of America), the planned Northstar Line (serving Hennepin and Anoka counties and points northwest) and the Central Corridor will share a station.


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## Songoten2554 (Oct 19, 2006)

yay the united states is finally embracing Mass Transit finally this could be a new age in the united states and a better one as well.


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## tampasteve (Aug 8, 2007)

That is great! Wow, Minneapolis/St. Paul is really going to be a great transit town in 15 years or so! Good for you guys! Man, it makes me so jealous....all we have in Tampa is our crappy bus system and 2.4 mile streetcar line in a tourist area.

Steve


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## Tcmetro (Jun 9, 2007)

There is also plans for a Southwest Line, which is years off, and the Northwest (Bottineau) Line, which will be LRT or BRT.

Northstar Commuter Rail opens in 2009.


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## Somnifor (Sep 6, 2005)

*MINNEAPOLIS | North Star Line*

This is the first heavy rail commuter transit line in the Minneapolis-St Paul area. It is built along existing tracks and will compliment the Hiawatha light rail line from downtown Minneapolis to Bloomington via the airport. A 10 mile central corridor light rail line between downtown Minneapolis and downtown St Paul is approved with pending construction and another light rail line from downtown Minneapolis to the southeastern suburbs is in the late planning stage and will probably begin construction within a year or two. This is an exciting time for rail transit in the region. Ten years ago Minneapolis-St Paul had no rail transit, by the middle of the next decade we should have the beginning of a real system with 4 lines up and running. 

*Finally, all aboard for Northstar*

Some commuters rode for business and others just for pleasure during Northstar's long-awaited debut.

By BILL McAULIFFE, PAUL LEVY and JIM FOTI •, Star Tribune Staff Writers 

Last update: November 17, 2009 - 12:08 AM

The last Northstar commuter train of the day left the Target Field station at 6:10 p.m. Monday, concluding a historic Twin Cities commuting day right on time.

For commuters on the state's first long-distance commuter rail line, it was a day to test connections and, in some cases, see what it was like just to ride a train.

"This is my first train trip," said Julie Schlangen, 31, on her way from St. Cloud to her job at the St. Paul Public Library. "I want to see how it works."

So did government officials, taxpayers and other commuters who had endured a nearly 13-year wait, a $317 million price tag and political derailments before Monday's maiden voyages on the 40-mile Northstar commuter line. Some passengers, like Schlangen, awakened hours before dawn for the novelty of taking that first train out of Big Lake, in Sherburne County. By the afternoon, though, most passengers seemed to have found a routine already, settling in to work on laptops, read, call home or just gaze into the urban night as the doors closed on the train's first day.

Metro Transit reported that more than 2,400 paying customers rode Northstar trains Monday. On a typical day, the line is projected to have 1,700 passengers each way.

Jim Hadfield, 58, of Big Lake, who works in sales in Minneapolis' Warehouse District, thinks the daily $14 round-trip fee may be more expensive than driving down Interstate 94. "But this is less of a hassle, definitely less stress," he said.

At Target Field, extra transit employees were on hand to shout directions to arriving passengers: "Light rail to downtown this way! Enter the skyway system at the 5th Street parking ramp!"

Planners of the Northstar line have been touting it as a way to get to the airport, and Mike Kaufman of **** Rapids didn't waste any time giving it a try. Rolling suitcase in tow, he boarded Northstar at 7:42 a.m. (after a mad dash across the skyway at the **** Rapids station) and transferred to a Hiawatha train to catch his 10:30 a.m. flight to Cincinnati. He expected to save nearly $100 on airport parking and spent $4 for his train ticket.

"Technically, I can get two hours of work done on my laptop -- an hour each way -- and I never could have done that in my car," said Vicki Domka, of Becker, who was riding her first train of any kind. "I can't believe how smooth this ride is."

Brent Neeser's 7-year-old seeing-eye dog, Boomer, was a picture of contentment as the Northstar train glided along while passengers smiled and smirked as they watched the stop-and-go traffic on Hwy. 10, which runs parallel to much of the rail line through Sherburne and Anoka counties.

A few snags

Trains were on time -- the first one arrived three minutes early -- but the first day was not entirely free of glitches. At Target Field, the doors of the 7:10 a.m. train didn't open for a few minutes, so its more than 300 passengers were stuck inside. Once they made their way upstairs to the Hiawatha station, light rail wasn't there to greet them because of a mechanical problem. A replacement Hiawatha train left the station at 7:25.

During the afternoon rush, there were some frantic dashes for closing doors, some doorway stumbles and even a few people who missed trains and had to wait for the next one. Only one person missed the final train, arriving at Target Field two minutes late on a connecting light-rail transit train.

The morning door delay was because of a conductor error, said Bob Gibbons, Metro Transit spokesman. "You can bet that won't happen again," he said.

Susan Sullivan of Andover hopes not. "When I got to the Government Center, it was 10 minutes later than my bus ever got me there," she wrote in an e-mail. "And I will be paying $2 more each day for the 'privilege' of riding this."

Gibbons said about 45 percent of the riders arriving in Minneapolis headed to the light-rail station, which also had its debut today, extending the Hiawatha line by three blocks. Nearly half the morning riders, had boarded at either Elk River or **** Rapids.

Not every Northstar rider went all the way to Target Field, however -- Metro Transit reported that 32 morning riders were going between suburban stations.

Chuck Nyberg got on with his bicycle in Elk River and off in Anoka, where he works as an engineer. Keith Holkestad got on in **** Rapids and was heading west to Elk River, where he works as a surveyor.

Drew Kniffin, 28, who lives in downtown Minneapolis, had a job interview in Elk River, with Northstar and his bicycle getting him there.

Unusual journeys

The sole outbound morning train to Big Lake had 44 customers when it headed northwest at 6:05 a.m. Kate Pound of St. Paul, was one of them and had one of the more complicated commutes. She rode her bicycle to a bus stop, transferred from the bus to a light-rail train and then to Northstar at Target Field. She departed the Big Lake station via a Northstar Link bus to her job as a geology teacher at St. Cloud State University.

"It's great, it's cheaper, I'm doing the right thing in terms of my carbon footprint," she said. "But what if I'm late and miss my connection in Big Lake? As long as I don't get stuck, this is the way to go."

Vlad and Genny Kedrosky, both 73 and retired teachers from Edina, said they got up at 2 a.m. and drove to Big Lake, just for the novelty of taking the initial 5 a.m. train to the Target Field station. They described themselves as "rail fans with nowhere to go." But they seemed to reach their desired destination.

"This was great," Genny Kedrosky said. "Even better than we'd hoped."


http://www.startribune.com/local/we...c3E7_V_nDaycUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUr


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## Somnifor (Sep 6, 2005)

Some photos:









(source)









(source)









(source)[/QUOTE]


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## JustinB (Aug 12, 2008)

Hopefully the service can be improved over time. It doesn't seem like it will be convenient to use on the weekends.


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## tampasteve (Aug 8, 2007)

Great, thanks for the update and pics! I am incredibly jealous right now. Tampa is a transit wasteland at this point. Maybe in 5-10 years we will start to catch up.

Steve


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## minneapolis-uptown (Jun 22, 2009)

*MINNEAPOLIS | Streetcar*

I heard a couple years ago that Minneapolis was seriously considering introducing a streetcar line or 2. They did a feasibility study and everything!
The Mayor was a big supporter. What happened? I havent heard anything since!


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## minneapolis-uptown (Jun 22, 2009)

oops i did the thread name wrong again. MOD!


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## Benn (Jan 10, 2007)

Economy is in the tank, Higher priority was given to light rail and commuter rail projects for one reason or another. At some point I would expect a number of them to be greenlight. But probably not till 2020 or 2030 after the proscribed LRT and commuter routes are built. Keep in mind that they are still a good $100 million a line on the low end.

I did a lttle case study of my own, and determined 5-7 LRT lines, 4-5 Commuter lines and 11 streetcar Lines would service the metro pretty well. The pricetag is a kicker though, I figure around $9-12 billion in current dollars to set up that sort of system.

To bad wee ripped the old one out huh.

Oh and wouldn't it make more sense to have a general Twin Cities thread for transit (I know there are other ones for Northstar and Hiawatha and seperate ones seems a little redundant).


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## Benn (Jan 10, 2007)

Had on and off seen a couple of disparate threads on a thin topic, but it seems like the Twin Cities could use one real thread.

Metro Transit is the main public transportation authority, currently operating 127 bus routes, one light rail and one commuter rail line, with more of both in the works.

Currently the Hiawatha line is the only active light rail; with another, the Central Corridor going into construction this fall and a third, the southwest corridor likely being built by 2015-18. Two further lines have had some preliminary planning but seem unlikely at the moment. 










The 12 mile Hiawatha line opened in 2004, it connects downtown Minneapolis with the Mall of America and M/SP international airport. It was extended to Target field (home of the Twins, and a Commuter rail stop in 2009, station were also extended to allow for three car trains as the line has been well ahead of ridership projections, 32,000 weekday riders. It is for those of us fortunate enough to live near the line a great way to get to twins and Vikings games (downtown parking is a hassle).










The line employs 27 Bombardier Swift LRVs (similar to those in Stockholm) that seat 66. Further LRVs are expected to be Siemens S70 vehicles, which will also operate on the other lines. 10 additional vehicles are expected to allow all trains to run in triples. 

Warehouse district Station (Target Center)









Government Plaza









Airport, Lindbergh Terminal









The Central Corridor, which is expected to go into construction next month will link downtown Minneapolis with downtown St Paul via the University of Minnesota. It will be about 11 miles in length, have 18 new stations and share 5 with the Hiawatha corridor and cost about $920 million. Current projections for ridership are 42,000/weekday. The old St Paul Union Station is being renovated to serve as the terminus of the central corridor as well as an Amtrak and possible commuter rail hub. The line is expected to employ a minimum of 31 Siemens S70 vehicles. Metro transit has appearently optioned 58 more for future capacity increase and for the southwest corridor project.

Target Field Station (Minneapolis)







.
Multimodal station, Northstar Commuter trains running under the LRT platform and Ballpark.

Union Depot (St Paul)









The planned Southwest Corridor seems likely to get the go ahead in the next couple of years, possibly as early as 2012. It would connect downtown Minneapolis with the southwestern suburb of Eden Prarie, ridership is anticipated in the 28,000/weekday range and a pricetag around $800 million. Two Further lines, the Robert Street Corridor (downtown St Paul to the southern suburbs) and the Northwest Corridor (downtown Minneapolis to Osseo) have been discussed but are a ways off.










Northstar Commuter Rail
is 40 mile commuter rail corridor that extends toward north central Minnesota. It may be expanded to 81 miles in order to reach St Cloud, however ridership has been lower than expected , about 2,200 daily riders and funds seem better served going towards other projects. The line operated 5 trains comprised of Motive Power MP36 Locomotives with Bombardier Bi Level coaches, similar to Go Transit and various west coast commuter trains.










**** rapids station









Big Lake









Five further lines have been discussed, but nothing binding has come of them so far.


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## Benn (Jan 10, 2007)

In March the city of Minneapolis announced plans to implement a new streetcar system starting with 5 "starter" routes that could be extended at a later date. Three Additional routes have been studied for possible later development, but are less than certain to receive the matching federal dollars the first five seem likely to procure. At the moment it seems likely that the one of Washington, Central/University, Chicago, Nicollet and Hennepin routes will go through to construction in the next few of years with the others following shortly. 2020 is the target to have the system built out to this point. The Midtown Greenway is having trouble in the ridership models and is somewhat dependent on the southwest corridor, but may happen down the line as it would provide excellent linkage between to rail lines and is in a pretty dense area.

Its a great development that would start to restart what was on of the great streetcar systems in the country, the old Twin Cities Rapid Transit had more than 1,000 streetcars (mostly built for and by TCRT) on 530 miles of track at its peak in the '20s. 


Links
analysis
http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/04/01/minneapolis-advances-streetcar-system-plan/

City issued reports/studies
http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/public-works/trans-plan/StreetcarStudy.asp#TopOfPage


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## tampasteve (Aug 8, 2007)

How come they are planning on changing to S70 trains instead of the Bombardiers? 

Great thread!

Steve


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## tampasteve (Aug 8, 2007)

DP

Steve


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## dwdwone (May 7, 2004)

What other light rail lines, other than the one to St. Paul, are planned? I ask because I've read that no other lines will be built.


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## Benn (Jan 10, 2007)

The Southwest Corridor planned to go from downtown Minneapolis through the southwestern suburbs to Eden Prarie will go ahead if funding gets secured, so if funding is secured in the next year construction would go ahead in 2012, but I would guess it will be closer to 2015. The Robert Street Corridor heading south out of St Paul and Northwest Corridor from Minneapolis to Osseo have been discussed, but seem like they may be downgraded to BRT or development may be postponed indefinitely. FYI the Central Corridor connecting the two downtowns is going into construction next month.


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## Benn (Jan 10, 2007)

tampasteve said:


> How come they are planning on changing to S70 trains instead of the Bombardiers?
> 
> Great thread!
> 
> Steve


I've been wondering the same thing. The Bombardier trains seem pretty comfortable and smooth, so I can't imagine they've been having much trouble with them, and they are known to do well with harsh winters. I know Siemens did all of the electrification of the Hiawatha line, and they could well have undercut Bombardier on the cost, though Siemens trains are generally a little more expensive. If I had to guess there are either some personal issues going on or it has to do with where they are manufactured. The current Bombardier ones were made in Mexico and I believe the Siemens ones are assembled in in Sacramento, so a political issue seems to be the cause, and made in the USA certainly has some weight around here.


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## tampasteve (Aug 8, 2007)

Cool. I have ridden in a myriad of LR trains and I like th S70 a lot, but that is personal opinion!

Steve


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## Benn (Jan 10, 2007)

Here is the early rendering of the new Metro Transit S70s, I kind of like the look of the Bombardier ones myself, might look better with black instead of blue like the current ones, but thats just me.










And here is a pdf of the livery for the various vehicles they operate
http://councilmeetings.metc.state.mn.us/council_meetings/2008/031208/0312_2008_vehicle%20design.pdf


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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)

Here's some Twin Cities future plans

Streetcar build out plan










Northern Lights Intercity Rail plan










Central Corridor LRT


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## Benn (Jan 10, 2007)

Northern Lights Express is apparently good as dead, the cost estimate has gotten up around a $1 billion and that's probably a deal killer given ridership projections.

here is the Central Corridor LRV procurement and construction schedule presentation, turns out the Siemens bid was substantially cheaper than Bombardier's, $120 million to $153 million. CAF and Kinkisharyo also submitted bids.

http://www.metrocouncil.org/transportation/ccorridor/CCMC/2010/20100811PPT.pdf


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## Benn (Jan 10, 2007)

Links to Further LRT development

Southwest Corridor - Has preliminary design and approval, awaiting funding
http://www.southwesttransitway.org/

Northwest Corridor - Still a Study
http://www.bottineaupartnership.org/

Hennipen County mode of transportation study
http://www.bottineautransitway.org/index.html

Robert St Corridor - Study
http://www.co.dakota.mn.us/EnvironmentRoads/Transit/Robert/default.htm


Some links to possible commuter rail developments

Ramsey County passenger rail site
"http://www.regionalrail.org/

Red Rock Corridor - Preliminary design, awaiting approval for form design, funding.
http://www.redrockrail.org/

Rush Line - Study
http://www.rushline.org/

Rochester Rail Link- More intercity than anything, but fits within the Twin Cities framework - multiple studies, though nothing finalized in any way.
http://www.semnrail.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochester_Rail_Link


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## diablo234 (Aug 18, 2008)

Photos taken by Calvin Henry-Cotnam


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## Major Deegan (Sep 24, 2005)

spectre000 said:


> A picture from the MetCouncil. Progress on 4th Street in downtown St. Paul is going well. They were supposed to be done in November with the utility realignment work. Doesn't look like it will happen. But everyday there is visible progress.
> 
> Nov 17th.


..


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## Benn (Jan 10, 2007)

Its fun to see the Central Corridor construction finally getting going, but its going to be a mess along University Ave for a few years. Cool to see some triples running on Hiawatha line these days too.


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## IanCleverly (Nov 24, 2010)




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## MN_Badger (Jul 16, 2007)

As stolen from the Minneapolis / St. Paul Development thread....

Track is being laid for the Central Corridor LRT, which will connect the downtowns of Minneapolis and St. Paul.

Picture from City of St. Paul's facebook page.







[/QUOTE]


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## diablo234 (Aug 18, 2008)

Some construction pics of the Central Corridor courtesy of MetroCouncil.


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## diablo234 (Aug 18, 2008)

Visual Rendering of the Central Corridor light rail route.


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## manrush (May 8, 2008)

Nice to see that they updated the renders.

Looks like a central European-style tramway.


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## Benn (Jan 10, 2007)

Its kind of too bad its on grade the entire route, its going to have to deal with a lot more traffic lights than the Hiawatha line. Elevating or burying would have been expensive (especially the later) but there is so much potential for a grade seperated line between the downtowns. Something like Skytrain in Vancouver would be ideal, if twice as expensive.


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## diablo234 (Aug 18, 2008)

Benn said:


> Its kind of to bad its on grade the entire route, its going to have to deal with a lot more traffic lights than the Hiawatha line. Elevating or burying would have been expensive (especially the later) but there is so much potential for a grade seperated line between the downtowns. Something like Skytrain in Vancouver would be ideal, if twice as expensive.


I don't see it being a problem as long as the traffic lights are synchronized and the trains have priority.


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## greg_christine (Jan 25, 2004)

diablo234 said:


> I don't see it being a problem as long as the traffic lights are synchronized and the trains have priority.


It's either a problem for the trains or it's a problem for motor vehicle traffic. There is no free lunch.


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## diablo234 (Aug 18, 2008)

greg_christine said:


> It's either a problem for the trains or it's a problem for motor vehicle traffic. There is no free lunch.


Most of the traffic using University Ave. in St. Paul is local anyways since you also have I-94 running parallel plus there are tons of alternate routes that motor vehicle traffic can use.


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## diablo234 (Aug 18, 2008)

Some recent photos of the Central Corridor LRT courtesy of MetCouncil.


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## Benn (Jan 10, 2007)

Tracks!


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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)




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## Swede (Aug 24, 2002)

So... what's the status on the different projects? Is there a map showing what phase they're in? In operation, tracks laid, site prep, approved, proposed, ...
/all transit agencies should have maps of that sort on their websites. Don't know of a single one that does.


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## Major Deegan (Sep 24, 2005)

What sort of information are you looking for beyond what's already been laid out in post #1


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## diablo234 (Aug 18, 2008)

Some recent pics of construction of the Central Corridor courtesy of Met Council.


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## trainrover (May 6, 2006)

The blatlantly obvious separation between the trains and traffic must categorically deem this LRT :applause:


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## MSP (Sep 13, 2002)

Swede said:


> So... what's the status on the different projects? Is there a map showing what phase they're in? In operation, tracks laid, site prep, approved, proposed, ...
> /all transit agencies should have maps of that sort on their websites. Don't know of a single one that does.


Swede...
We have a 12 mile or so LRT in operation since 2004. Originally called the Hiawatha line, but will renamed the Blue line soon. Ridership is around 35k a day.

http://metrotransit.org/Data/Sites/1/media/lightrail/lrt_map.gif










We also have one commuter rail line in service, going 40 miles into the NW suburbs. The Northstar line. Ridership is around 3000 per day.
http://metrotransit.org/Data/Sites/1/media/northstar/northstar_stations_map3.gif










We also have the Central corridor/Green line LRT under construction connecting DT Minneapolis with DT St. Paul. Its around 11 miles long. The price tag is $957 million which is the biggest public works project ever built in Minnesota. It opens in 2014.
http://www.metrocouncil.org/transportation/ccorridor/centralcorridor.asp

Lastly we have the SW LRT/Green Line extension to Eden Prarie in Pre-Design because the FTA just gave it the go ahead to proceed. Opening around 2017.
http://www.metrocouncil.org/transportation/SW/SouthwestLRT.htm


There are many other improvements to be done here. 
http://metrotransit.org/transit-improvements.aspx


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

Proposed rail to Brooklyn Park









Source: http://finance-commerce.com/2012/05/panel-backs-new-route-for-bottineau-lrt/


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## diablo234 (Aug 18, 2008)




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## St.PauliBoy (Jun 9, 2010)

Looking at the map of all the various proposals, I hope that even half of that will come to fruition considering all the NIMBY's we have here....plus the anti-everything ethos of local AM right-wing talk radio.

It's amazing that we've got the Hiawatha, North Star and Central Corridor done considering all of the opposition.


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## trainrover (May 6, 2006)




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## Falubaz (Nov 20, 2004)

I was recently in Minneapolis and rode the Blue line.
Two things made me surprised:

imag

1. I didnt know the downtown part would be THAT slow! I bet a runnig person can easily overpass the train there. The same for the few stations around Mall of America. Bendy and very slow section. Seems like an old tram. It takes ages to pass just 2 or 3 stations.

screenshot windows 8

2. I didnt know the underground part and some of the middle sections would be THAT fast. Seems like a real metro line. I liked that part very much. It takes you so quick to the downtown.

image upload no size limit

So im wondering if the new green line to St. Paul would be more like metro or (please dont!) like a slow tram.


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

Falubaz said:


> So im wondering if the new green line to St. Paul would be more like metro or (please dont!) like a slow tram.



I bet trains will roll really slow around downtown Mpls UofM and downtown SP areas. Besides those areas I heard that the trains will run somewhere between
35mph to 45mph nowhere close to Hiawatha blue line which can go up to 55mph at some segments.

Well any some update of TC transit projects by MSPdude on Flickr

Red Line Buses:


Cedar Grove Transit Station by MSPdude, on Flickr


Red Line at Cedar Grove by MSPdude, on Flickr

Green line Snelling Avenue station. 


Snelling Ave. Station by MSPdude, on Flickr


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## Falubaz (Nov 20, 2004)

The speed in downtown Mpls really sucks. And on the green line it looks like there wont be many of 'faster segments'. Even University ave has at least 10 000 crossings. 
Do you know what will be the travel time from Mpls to St. Paul?


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## Major Deegan (Sep 24, 2005)

Falubaz said:


> Do you know what will be the travel time from Mpls to St. Paul?


40 mins. If you wanted to go faster, you would take the 94 express bus.


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## dwdwone (May 7, 2004)

Is the stadium station below ground?


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## Jennifat (Aug 7, 2005)

dwdwone said:


> Is the stadium station below ground?


Which one? There are four stadiums (Target Field, Metrodome, TCF Bank Stadium, and the future Saints Ballpark) on the Green Line...

But, no. None underground.


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## Major Deegan (Sep 24, 2005)

Light Rail Shuttle by MSPdude, on Flickr



> A single car Bombardier LRV sits at Terminal 2 Station, running the free overnight shuttle that links the two terminals at MSP Airport. The shuttle starts a few hours before Blue Line service ends for the night, to provide more frequent service between the terminals. This LRV has new destination sign that can display colors, although it is not used here.


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

*Saint Paul Union Depot*

The Amtrak station at Union Depot in downtown St Paul is expected to open some time after Thanksgiving this year. The current Amtrak station is in the St Paul industrial district (Midway station).

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2013/10/23/business/amtrak-union-depot


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## Swede (Aug 24, 2002)

1. Great that they're moving the station to the old down-town station which'll connect to the Green line LRT.
2. There just one train per day to Chicago? I knew inter-ctiy rail was a joke in much of the US, but srsly? 1?


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

That's common unfortunately outside of Northeast Corridor. You probably know this, but unlike other most industrialized countries freight rail companies own most of the rail lines in the US. Amtrak has to seek permission to run their trains on private freight lines as far as I know. With a combination of a shitty and slow rail line thanks to decades of underinvestment, slow freight trains that has higher priority, delays, zero electrification, and long distances from Twin Cities, it's not surprising they run a train once a day to Chicago.


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## Swede (Aug 24, 2002)

I know, I know  

Also, that one train takes 9 hours. ffs! It's that issue with the freight companies owning the rails and setting the rules & speeds on 'em - again. Copenhagen-Stockholm is a slightly shorter trip (6h11m by car vs 6h21m by car according to Google Maps), but the slow over-night trains take only 8h45m with the express trains taking 5h04m. 

The way local transit is being built in US cities will increase the demand for inter-city rail tho. Which in turn will mean more funding for it.


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

The St Paul-Chicago train has little in common with the Copenhagen-Stockholm train except that both travel through areas populated by Viking settlers.


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

Swede said:


> I know, I know
> 
> Also, that one train takes 9 hours. ffs! It's that issue with the freight companies owning the rails and setting the rules & speeds on 'em - again. Copenhagen-Stockholm is a slightly shorter trip (6h11m vs 6h21m according to Google Maps), but the slow over-night trains take only 8h45m with the express trains taking 5h04m.
> 
> The way local transit is being built in US cities will increase the demand for inter-city rail tho. Which in turn will mean more funding for it.


That assumes if there is a huge shift in opinions on mass transit in this country. Many politicians(mostly on the right) and their voter base plus conservative libertarian groups like CATO strongly oppose more investment in transit and trains.


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## zaphod (Dec 8, 2005)

There's plans to run commuter rail out of that station

Also proposals to run trains to Duluth and Rochester, MN.

Personally I think there should be an extended Hiawatha that goes MSP-Madison-Milwaukee-Chicago.


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## Tom 958 (Apr 24, 2007)

So, it's been several months... is ridership on the Red Line meeting expectations?


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## Major Deegan (Sep 24, 2005)

> After the first two months of service, daily ridership is at 835 each weekday, which is 86 percent of the line’s goal by the end of the first full year of service (975) and halfway toward its 2017 goal (1,600).
> 
> The service averages 480 riders on weekend days after the first two months.
> 
> Both of these averages have risen as of July 19 when daily weekday ridership was 798 and weekend day ridership was 450.


This was in August, but I imagine the numbers stayed pretty solid.

http://sunthisweek.com/2013/08/22/ridership-grows-on-red-line/


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## Major Deegan (Sep 24, 2005)




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## Swede (Aug 24, 2002)

835 per day? I was at first very, very surprised that was neough for anyone to call it "solid". So I looked back in the thread and realised the line has just 5 stops and runs from the end of the LRT outwards. 835 isn't bad given that.
Bit of a weird starting stretch for BRT in a region, but I guess it must have been way easier to get done than something more central/longer.


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

*St. Paul Union Depot*

Unfortunately Amtrak service to St Paul Union Depot downtown (and discontinuation of service to Midway station in the middle of an industrial estate) has been delayed to around mid-February.

http://www.twincities.com/stpaul/ci_24507239/union-depot-amtrak-deal-set-trains-arrive-early


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

*Target Field Station ( The Ingerchange) grand opening today*

This one is scheduled for 3pm today

http://finance-commerce.com/2014/05/target-field-station-not-your-everyday-rail-stop/


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## Tom 958 (Apr 24, 2007)

dimlys1994 said:


> From Star Tribune: *For Minneapolis, Southwest LRT hits deal or no-deal time* April 13, 2014


So, how did that turn out?


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

Timelapse of cab ride on Green Line LRT. I'm glad that the line's opening will be next week:


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

*Metro Green Line*

Finally the opening day for green line is almost here. Tomarrow at 10 am. Here are some articles from Pioneer Press and MPR blog regarding the new line that is going to serve Twin Cities


http://www.twincities.com/transport...aside-university-minnesota-sees-bright-future

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/projects/2014/06/green-line/

http://blog.thecurrent.org/2014/06/metro-green-line-opening-day-where-and-when-the-bands-are/

http://m.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2014/06/09/summit-green-line-pub-crawl-light-rail.html


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## brewerfan386 (Apr 24, 2009)

As of this morning (6/14) the METRO Green Line in now open!!


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## Silly_Walks (Aug 23, 2010)

This is good news. I want video! And I want a full ride video from the driver's perspective.


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

*Metro Green Line*

Here is live streaming video from MPR building looking west towards state Capitol.

http://blog.thecurrent.org/2014/06/live-video-metro-transits-green-line-is-here-watch-it-roll/


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

Double Post


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

Updated map on urbanrail.net:


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

*Metro Green Line Opening Day June 14th 2014*

Pictures by Mulad on Flickr

img_8524 by Mulad, on Flickr

img_8551-edit by Mulad, on Flickr

img_8438-edit by Mulad, on Flickr

img_8586-edit by Mulad, on Flickr

img_8557 by Mulad, on Flickr

img_8598 by Mulad, on Flickr

img_8594 by Mulad, on Flickr

img_8601-edit by Mulad, on Flickr

IMAG0189 by Mulad, on Flickr

And some by Ottergoose on Flickr
Green Line Opening Day in Downtown St. Paul, MN by Ottergoose, on Flickr

Green Line Opening Day at SPUD; St. Paul, MN by Ottergoose, on Flickr

Opening Day on the Green Line at Snelling and University; St. Paul, MN by Ottergoose, on Flickr

First Westbound Green Line Train near Chatsworth & University; St. Paul, MN by Ottergoose, on Flickr


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## Silly_Walks (Aug 23, 2010)

achybo said:


> Here is live streaming video from MPR building looking west towards state Capitol.
> 
> http://blog.thecurrent.org/2014/06/live-video-metro-transits-green-line-is-here-watch-it-roll/


I watched it for a few seconds, and right away saw a confused driver driving his car onto the right side track, realizing he had done something wrong and having to wait for the tram to clear the other track before he could back up.

I guess people still have to get used to it


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## Major Deegan (Sep 24, 2005)

Looking at the ridership stats so far, it looks like on the Green Line it might top 40,000 boardings/day, which exceeds the 2030 projections.


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## Swede (Aug 24, 2002)

Are those stats for the opening day? Those are usually far from indicative of regular workday numbers. Still, a great start.


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## MrAronymous (Aug 7, 2011)

On the 14th and 15th it was opening weekend. So it was free..


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## lunarwhite (Jun 18, 2014)

Silly_Walks said:


> This is good news. I want video! And I want a full ride video from the driver's perspective.


Here is a time-lapse video of the entire route produced before opening day.
http://blogs.mprnews.org/cities/2014/05/video-the-green-line-every-station-end-to-end/


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## Cesar Vieira (Jan 29, 2009)

*Congratulations.*

Congratulations. :cheers:
I have been to Minnesota in 2010 and enjoyed the cities of St. Paul and Minneapolis (I stayed in Eden Praire) certainly is the place I would choose to live in the United States. 
Is there any project for the extension of the line after St. Paul Depot, going to the Metropolitan State University (after North, to Maplewood Mall for example )?


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## MSP (Sep 13, 2002)

Cesar Vieira said:


> Congratulations. :cheers:
> I have been to Minnesota in 2010 and enjoyed the cities of St. Paul and Minneapolis (I stayed in Eden Praire) certainly is the place I would choose to live in the United States.
> Is there any project for the extension of the line after St. Paul Depot, going to the Metropolitan State University (after North, to Maplewood Mall for example )?


The green line will be extended SW to Eden Prarie next.


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## Silly_Walks (Aug 23, 2010)

In the time-lapse video I saw the LRT's waiting at red lights quite often. Don't they have means to control the lights at crossing? This would seem to best way to increase speeds and I would have thought this would have already been the case. I mean, why else spend several millions for separate right of way, but not implement such a cheap, effective measure?


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## Major Deegan (Sep 24, 2005)

^^ If you are referring to a timelapse video posted on the previous page, it's an old one from last fall. Signaling has been modified since then.


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## Major Deegan (Sep 24, 2005)

Cesar Vieira said:


> Congratulations. :cheers:
> 
> Is there any project for the extension of the line after St. Paul Depot, going to the Metropolitan State University (after North, to Maplewood Mall for example )?


Potential BRT/LRT alignments to Maplewood and White Bear Lake are being studied right now.


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## Cesar Vieira (Jan 29, 2009)

*Thanks.*



MSP said:


> The green line will be extended SW to Eden Prarie next.


Thanks!
I know the Southwest LRT project, I've seen the site metrocouncil.org.



Major Deegan said:


> Potential BRT/LRT alignments to Maplewood and White Bear Lake are being studied right now.


Thanks!


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

Ready for service:

Green Line at SPUD by jterry618, on Flickr


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

Official from Metro Transit's Flickr page, view on Blue Line station opening in 2004. In commemoration of Blue Line's 10th Anniversary, MT reuploaded these photos:

METRO Blue Line Grand Opening (formerly the Hiawatha Line) by metrotransitmn, on Flickr

METRO Blue Line Grand Opening (formerly the Hiawatha Line) by metrotransitmn, on Flickr

METRO Blue Line Grand Opening (formerly the Hiawatha Line) by metrotransitmn, on Flickr

METRO Blue Line Grand Opening (formerly the Hiawatha Line) by metrotransitmn, on Flickr

METRO Blue Line Grand Opening (formerly the Hiawatha Line) by metrotransitmn, on Flickr

METRO Blue Line Grand Opening (formerly the Hiawatha Line) by metrotransitmn, on Flickr

METRO Blue Line Grand Opening (formerly the Hiawatha Line) by metrotransitmn, on Flickr


METRO Blue Line Grand Opening (formerly the Hiawatha Line) by metrotransitmn, on Flickr


METRO Blue Line Grand Opening (formerly the Hiawatha Line) by metrotransitmn, on Flickr


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

By the way don't forget this one with the skyline in the background.

METRO Blue Line Grand Opening (formerly the Hiawatha Line) by metrotransitmn, on Flickr


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

Brand new green line


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

Mpls Greenline by Mspdude on Flickr

Capitol/Rice St. Station by MSPdude, on Flickr


Green Line Approaching by MSPdude, on Flickr

Robert St. Station by MSPdude, on Flickr


Green Line and Route 16 by MSPdude, on Flickr


NexTrip at Union Depot by MSPdude, on Flickr


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

Source Star Tribune


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## ArrowHead30 (Jun 21, 2014)

(Disclaimer) I'm not that great with photos.

















Source: My own photos.


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

Green Line trains by Nick Benson(Ottergoose) on Flickr

Green Line over 35W II; Minneapolis, MN by Ottergoose, on Flickr

Green Line over 35W; Minneapolis, MN by Ottergoose, on Flickr


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

*Feds: Met Council can begin designing METRO Blue Line Extension*

This got one step closer today




> *Feds: Met Council can begin designing METRO Blue Line Extension*
> 
> MINNEAPOLIS, Aug. 22, 2014 – The Metropolitan Council today received federal approval to begin designing the METRO Blue Line Extension northwest of Minneapolis, the region’s fourth light rail transit project. Approval to enter Project Development to begin preliminary engineering is the first of several approvals required by the federal government. Future approvals needed include approval to enter Final Engineering (anticipated late 2016) and approval of the Full Funding Grant Agreement (anticipated in 2018).......


http://www.metrocouncil.org/News-Ev...ouncil-can-begin-designing-METRO-Blue-Li.aspx


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

*Southwest light rail proposal wins Minneapolis City Council approval*

After months and weeks of head butting between Minneapolis,Met Council and the cities along the corridor, Minneapolis grudgingly has approved the line to run through Kenilworth.



> *Southwest light rail proposal wins Minneapolis City Council approval*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://www.mprnews.org/story/2014/08/29/minneapolis-southwest-light-rail-vote


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## CNB30 (Jun 4, 2012)

Minneapolis Needs to find a way to have express trains, or remove some of the stations to improve the time element. Furthermore, I dislike how all of the lines except for the Hiawatha dodge the historic neighborhoods (which pretty much means that I would not want to live there because I would need a car).


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## Sopomon (Oct 2, 2010)

^^ Still impressive to see a relatively small city in the midwest build such an effective network


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## CNB30 (Jun 4, 2012)

Sopomon said:


> ^^ Still impressive to see a relatively small city in the midwest build such an effective network


Sorry I just think it's so poorly planned, I mean, almost an hour between the twin cities, you've got to be kidding me. Furthermore, I think they've got to be pjust plain stupid not to even think of a line somewhere around Stevens square, Ventura village area, or at least Loring park, or Dinkytown.


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## Major Deegan (Sep 24, 2005)

CNB30 said:


> I think they've got to be pjust plain stupid not to even think of a line somewhere around Stevens square, Ventura village area, or at least Loring park, or Dinkytown.


http://www.minneapolismn.gov/nicollet-central/


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## Major Deegan (Sep 24, 2005)

CNB30 said:


> Sorry I just think it's so poorly planned, I mean, almost an hour between the twin cities, you've got to be kidding me.


1. 30,000 passengers a day is by no means a poor showing. In fact, it bears MetroTransit's own projections for 2016.

2. The traffic-signal system that was designed for the Green Line is complex and was never expected to work perfectly upon installation. Cities across the country meet face initial difficulties fine-tuning to coordinate the train with the signal system using track detectors.

http://www.twincities.com/transportation/ci_26378930/should-light-rail-get-priority-at-st-paul


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## CNB30 (Jun 4, 2012)

Major Deegan said:


> http://www.minneapolismn.gov/nicollet-central/


Oh ok, I did not know about the streetcar, thanks.


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## Chauncey87 (Feb 2, 2013)

*"Southwest LRT’s bridges, tunnels prompt extra review"*



"The number of bridges, tunnels and other structures along the 16-mile Southwest Light Rail Transit route has prompted the Metropolitan Council to hire consultants to review engineering work for the project.
At its meeting Wednesday, the Met Council was set to approve a contract not to exceed $3,006,044 for Kansas City-based HNTB Corp. as a peer-review consultant. The need for peer review was spurred by the number and complexity of structures associated with the project, including 29 different bridges, and greater regional concern for bridge safety."

Read more: http://finance-commerce.com/2014/09...es-tunnels-prompt-extra-review/#ixzz3D41kpx8H


​


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

*Minneapolis light rail moves forward*



> USA: Construction of the 25·4 km Southwest LRT linking Minneapolis with St Louis Park, Minnetonka and Eden Prairie is expected to get underway in 2016. The Metropolitan Council’s Southwest LRT Project Office submitted a New Starts application to the Federal Transit Administration on September 10 seeking permission to start final engineering and requesting federal funding to cover 50% of the $1·65bn capital cost. Met Council says it has already received funding commitments totalling $705m towards the $827m local share................................................................................... .................................................................................................
> .................................................................................................
> .................................................................................................
> ...Meanwhile, Metro Council has received FTA approval to start preliminary engineering on a fourth light rail line. Also known as the Bottineau LRT, this 21 km route would extend the Blue Line northwest from Target Field to Robbinsdale and Brooklyn Park. Expected to open around 2021, this extension could be carrying 27 000 passengers/day in 2030.


http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...iew/minneapolis-light-rail-moves-forward.html


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

*Green Line average weekday LRT ridership*



> Just announced by Metro Transit: Green Line average weekday LRT ridership (drum roll!) - 40,400. That 500 shy of the 2030 projections! Wow!


https://twitter.com/McLaughlin_P/status/512241250049601536


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## Major Deegan (Sep 24, 2005)

^^ Expect ridership to grow further as the line spurs housing and commercial development along the corridor.


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## grant1simons2 (Aug 29, 2014)

Ridership to go up by 10k in the next 5 years? I hope so!


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## Swede (Aug 24, 2002)

Major Deegan said:


> ^^ Expect ridership to grow further as the line spurs housing and commercial development along the corridor.


Which will increase demand for more trains per hour which will increase use...


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

achybo said:


> https://twitter.com/McLaughlin_P/status/512241250049601536



Here is a break down of this milestone.











http://www.mprnews.org/story/2014/09/19/green-line-ridership


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## Tom 958 (Apr 24, 2007)

I like how the two proposed extensions cut diagonally across the street grid.

How's ridership on the Red Line doing?

And, I vaguely recall that express bus service between downtown Minneapolis and downtown St Paul would be maintained. Is that right? If not, why not provide it, especially since Green Line ridership is so robust?


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## Major Deegan (Sep 24, 2005)

^^ Route 94 was retained but off-peak and weekend service were reduced or eliminated in lieu of the light rail.


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## diablo234 (Aug 18, 2008)

Isn't the Green Line one of the few (I think only) light rail line that operates 24 hours a day?


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## Major Deegan (Sep 24, 2005)

^^ The Green Line runs 24 hours a day. However, it's only 1 trip per hour between 1-4 am.


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## grant1simons2 (Aug 29, 2014)

Rail-volution! Lets go!


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## Swede (Aug 24, 2002)

Would it be possible to have commuter rail lines connect the downtowns? That way there'd be a much faster option than the Green line for those travelling all the way.


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## Major Deegan (Sep 24, 2005)

spectre000 said:


> Love this shot!
> 
> First National Bank Building; St. Paul, MN by Ottergoose, on Flickr



..


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

ROW... 

Beauty on the Green Line by Central Corridor Funders Collaborative_CCFC, on Flickr


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

Here is Robert Schwandl from urbanrail blog about Twin Cities light rail. I like the fact that he tells like it is.

http://schwandl.blogspot.com/2014/09/minneapolisst-paul-light-rail.html


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## Major Deegan (Sep 24, 2005)

^^ he sure spends a lot of time ranting about the bell sound of the lrt .


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## Nouvellecosse (Jun 4, 2005)

^ I could only find 3 sentences. :hmm:


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## Major Deegan (Sep 24, 2005)

That's three too many


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## Nouvellecosse (Jun 4, 2005)

I was expecting half a page or something lol! I can see why wouldn't like it if you're a fan of train sounds but for the typical person the remarks were quite relevant as that definitely does sound rather irritating.


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## Tom 958 (Apr 24, 2007)

Google is my friend, lol:

Officials pleased with bus rapid transit numbers

"After the first two months of service, daily (Red Line) ridership is at 835 each weekday, which is 86 percent of the line’s goal by the end of the first full year of service (975) and halfway toward its 2017 goal (1,600).

"The service averages 480 riders on weekend days after the first two months.

"Both of these averages have risen as of July 19 when daily weekday ridership was 798 and weekend day ridership was 450."

Gee, I dunno. That big of an increase by 2017 seems like an ambitious goal. However:

"Another improvement that would reduce the current 30-minute ride time from Apple Valley to Bloomington is being reviewed by the Minnesota Department of Transportation.

"The project would create a dedicated bus-only, off- and on-ramp to the Cedar Grove Transit Station in Eagan."


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## MrAronymous (Aug 7, 2011)

Major Deegan said:


> That's three too many


Not really. As an American you're just used to the ridiculous amount of train horns and noise pollution it causes. Imagine every train everywhere not having to blow its horn or ring its bell on every crossing or at every station. Imagine the LRT bells only being used at non-gated crossings and/or only one time ring to raise awareness, and horns only in seriously dangerous situations. It would be so much quieter.

That's what happens in other places around the world.


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## Major Deegan (Sep 24, 2005)

USA is not the "rest of the world". Pedestrians and drivers here are not used to being in a mixed traffic with trains. Accidents do happen. Only a few weeks ago a pedestrian was struck and killed while crossing the tracks illegally. Another one was injured a few days ago when they attempted to clear the tracks in front of the train. The horn is a nuisance but also a necessity that saves lives.


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## mullen (Jan 17, 2005)

he "didn't precisely like the two cities as such". gee, thanks.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

What should be considered however ist that by using sounds and signals in an inflationary manner you discredit them. People are more likely to ignore them, not even deliberately but unintentionally. It is like the "mind the gap" warning, regular tube users do not even hear that line anymore, their brain just blanks it out, otherwise it would probably annoy them to madness. 

So if a horn is really only used in the event of very real danger, everyone will turn around and be immediately very alarmed. If it is heard at every crossing people will barely hear it.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

dp


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## Somnifor (Sep 6, 2005)

The horn isn't at every crossing though, or even most of them. The blogger just noticed it because his hotel was next to an ungated crossing in the busiest pedestrian area of the city.


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## Somnifor (Sep 6, 2005)

I took this picture a couple days ago. The Green Line is definitely helping to spur urban development around the University of Minnesota. Washington Ave is being transformed.

mplssept201437 by afsmps, on Flickr

This is looking in the other direction:

mplssept201436 by afsmps, on Flickr


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## Major Deegan (Sep 24, 2005)

This is a nice photo as well. Warehouse District station

mplsjune201417 by afsmps, on Flickr


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## Somnifor (Sep 6, 2005)

Thanks, I was going to focus on the areas around the Green Line for my next phototour, but I keep on getting distracted by other stuff to shoot.


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## Major Deegan (Sep 24, 2005)

achybo said:


> Here is one from Robert Ball on Flickr.
> 
> St Paul Light Rail by lukibob17, on Flickr




MINNEAPOLIS--214, 1445 lv Washington Avenue Bridge OB by milantram, on Flickr

MINNEAPOLIS--229 lv East Bank IB by milantram, on Flickr

MINNEAPOLIS--243 appr Warehouse Discrict/Hennepin Avenue Station IB by milantram, on Flickr


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

TOD

DSC_2307.JPG by evanrobertsnz, on Flickr

Transit mall

DSC_2299.JPG by evanrobertsnz, on Flickr

DSC_2296.JPG by evanrobertsnz, on Flickr

DSC_2297.JPG by evanrobertsnz, on Flickr


----------



## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

*How Minneapolis got transit right*

Sweet article about MSP Green Line on CNN money

http://money.cnn.com/interactive/tec...ail/index.html


----------



## grant1simons2 (Aug 29, 2014)

Detailed plans on Nicollet Streetcar released; http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups/public/@publicworks/documents/webcontent/wcms1p-132173.pdf


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## grant1simons2 (Aug 29, 2014)

*Rush hour is a pretty cool time*

No one rides the train... by grant.simons, on Flickr


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## MrAronymous (Aug 7, 2011)

grant1simons2 said:


> Detailed plans on Nicollet Streetcar released; http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups/public/@publicworks/documents/webcontent/wcms1p-132173.pdf


As seen from my European high horse:

1. It's slaloming on Nicollet Mall. Are they f*cking kidding. Ridiculous.
2. Why is it does it share the lane with cars? Just put the tracks in the middle of street on their own right-of-way. There's no need for on street parking on a transit corridor like this, you can use the side streets for that. And even when there is space for a seperate auto-lane they choose to let them be able to ride on the tracks too.. why? 
3. A loop/seperate one-way stops are not prefered if there's a better alternative.
4. The 3rd Street/Washington Ave./Hennepin Ave. section looks way too over-engineered and more complicated than necessary.


Anxiously waiting for a French-style light rail line North America.


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## billfranklin (Jan 28, 2007)

MrAronymous said:


> As seen from my European high horse:
> 
> 1. It's slaloming on Nicollet Mall. Are they f*cking kidding. Ridiculous.
> 2. Why is it does it share the lane with cars? Just put the tracks in the middle of street on their own right-of-way. There's no need for on street parking on a transit corridor like this, you can use the side streets for that. And even when there is space for a seperate auto-lane they choose to let them be able to ride on the tracks too.. why?
> ...



Our light rail, and, BRTs are the result of politics, where property owners, and property owning LLCs determine the routing. 

We have a schizophrenia where public transports needs are secondary to the will of those who fund elections.

With Federal for public transportation money largely locked up in Washington due to lobbyists and election money on a vast scale, little Federal moneys, and, equally important, little Federal power, is available to insist on good, metropolitan level efficiency at the local level.

I think that any good Japanese, French, German, Chinese, Spanish, Italian, or Korean metropolitan level rail transportation system design would, if implemented in the US, be far superior to any system outside NYC.


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## Benn (Jan 10, 2007)

billfranklin said:


> I think that any good Japanese, French, German, Chinese, Spanish, Italian, or Korean metropolitan level rail transportation system design would, if implemented in the US, be far superior to any system outside NYC.


And far cleaner than any system in NYC


----------



## Falubaz (Nov 20, 2004)

^^Well, - with all my love to Italy - italian might be not cleaner


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## Tower Dude (Oct 13, 2013)

^^Milan is very clean. The rest of Italy, not so much


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

*Orange Line BRT Applies to Federal Funding Program*












> The Metropolitan Council has applied to the Federal Transit Administration to begin the project development and engineering phase for the Orange Line from downtown Minneapolis to Burnsville. This work would occur in 2015 and 2016 in anticipation of a potential $70 million federal funding commitment. Federal funding is being sought through the Small Starts program, which provides annual capital grants to transit projects across the nation.
> The total cost for the Orange Line project is estimated at $150 million in 2017 dollars.





> Since May 2014, $18 million of funding has been secured towards the implementation of METRO Orange Line Bus Rapid Transit. This commitment will fund all project development, engineering, and environmental work through 2016, as well as part of construction. Funding sources and amounts are shown on the right.


http://metroorangeline.cmail1.com/t...EF23F30FEDED/424DC4747890352CE89F0E32AAFB68BF

https://www.metrotransit.org/orangeline










​​​


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## CNB30 (Jun 4, 2012)

They should make it Light Rail instead, perhaps even a premetro


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## grant1simons2 (Aug 29, 2014)

I wouldn't imagine it'd be too popular with MnDot to put LRT on one of their highways. Plus this is a very dense route but then the density drops fast past Minneapolis and Richfield so BRT kind of fits well. It could connect to to the Dan Patch Route if they turn west when they get into Burnsville. There few options and currently there are 2 LRT lines planned and 1 under study to be that or BRT (most likely LRT). A LRT going to Burnsville would be about as popular as the ACA is with tea party


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

Video about A Line BRT along Snelling Avenue:


----------



## Falubaz (Nov 20, 2004)

^^That's not a BRT line!
They branded it BRT but in fact its a normal bus. NEw shelters and ticketing at the bus stop, that's all. BRT needs at least separate lanes.


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## Tower Dude (Oct 13, 2013)

It has a completely independent ROW! How Does that not make it BRT?


----------



## MrAronymous (Aug 7, 2011)

No it doesn't. Did you even watch the video?


----------



## Tower Dude (Oct 13, 2013)

Oh I'm sorry I posted that in the wrong forum


----------



## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

*Obama budget funds Southwest LRT — if everything goes right*



> WASHINGTON — There was some good news for Minnesota’s planned Southwest LRT project buried in President Obama’s 2016 budget request on Monday: he wants to give the line $150 million to begin construction next year.
> But getting that cash will require everything to work out just right.
> Plans call for the federal government to provide half the funds needed to build the $1.68 billion light rail line, which would stretch from Target Field to Eden Prairie, with the state (10 percent), metro area (30 percent) and Hennepin County (10 percent) picking up the rest of the tab. The budget request seems to be a major step toward making that line a reality — and it is, assuming all goes as planned. But Obama wants to fund the line as part of a big increase in federal mass transit spending, which could be a complicated matter on Capitol Hill.













http://www.minnpost.com/dc-dispatch...-funds-southwest-lrt-if-everything-goes-right


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

Office for Blue Line Extension is open:

http://www.metrocouncil.org/METC/files/ea/eab5223d-93f6-418b-a1f5-cc6a9b1b5c5b.pdf


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## grant1simons2 (Aug 29, 2014)

Ok. Please don't screw this one up.


----------



## munchymunch (Feb 9, 2014)

Sweet, finally


----------



## Swede (Aug 24, 2002)

So if things line up right, we could see both lines getting extended past their current joint endpoind in DT Minneapolis? sweet.


----------



## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

*Metro Transit Blue Line passes 100 million rider mark* 



> With ridership on the Blue Line light rail passing the 100 million mark, Metro Transit decided to celebrate Thursday.
> Mascots “A” and “B” boarded a northbound train at the 46th Street Station and rode to Government Center Plaza to draw attention to the milestone and a contest to mark it.
> Through Feb. 19, customers can post old and new photos highlighting trips taken on the light-rail line to Metro Transit’s social media accounts, including Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. Two randomly selected winners will get a $100 Go-To Card.


http://www.startribune.com/local/south/290997711.html

http://www.metrotransit.org/celebrat...-rides-with-us


----------



## Rojnova (Jul 1, 2015)

MrAronymous said:


> As seen from my European high horse:
> 
> 1. It's slaloming on Nicollet Mall. Are they f*cking kidding. Ridiculous.


I know this was posted a while ago - but here is why:
It's hard to notice from the ground, but the actual street of Nicollet Mall slaloms - they aren't making the light rail slalom in an existing street.


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

*Eastern alignment tweaked for Gateway BRT*

Gateway BRT aka Gold Line's alignment has finally been tweaked and is set to be recommended for preferred route. Gold line will run 12 miles from downtown St. Paul to Lake Elmo / Woodbury. This is going to be metro's third BRT after Red Line and Orange Line. 



> Officials have refined the eastern portion of the alignment for the Gateway bus rapid transit line from St. Paul to Woodbury.












http://finance-commerce.com/transit/2015/08/17/eastern-alignment-tweaked-for-gateway-brt/

http://www.thegatewaycorridor.com/html/about-gateway-corridor.php


----------



## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

^^^^
And to give you an idea how lines are aligned in the metro as a whole here is a map of TC transit. Solid lines are alignments that are completed and is up and running where as dotted lines are planned or is about to start construction. Northstar is light blue three stripe linear line running northwest. The map doesn't include planned streetcar, arterial BRT, Riverview Corridor LRT and other mode of transit like commuter or HSR lines.


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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)

*First Quarter 2015 Daily Ridership numbers for Minneapolis *

Source : http://www.apta.com/resources/statistics/Documents/Ridership/2015-q1-ridership-APTA.pdf

*Light Rail*
Minneapolis / Metro LRT - 62,000 (2015)

*Commuter Rail *
Minneapolis Suburbs / Northstar - 2,300 (2015)

*Bus *
Minneapolis / Metro Transit - 207,800 (2015)
Burnsville / Minnesota Valley Transit - 10,700 (2015)
St. Cloud / St. Cloud Metrop Trans Comm - 8,900 (2015)
Eden Prairie / Southwest Metro Transit - 4,000 (2015)


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## Rail_Serbia (May 29, 2009)

Somnifor said:


> It is unfortunate that the Southwest and Bottineau lines completely bypass nearby urban sections of Minneapolis (Uptown and the North Side) and are focused entirely on suburban commuters. I think once they are built it will become apparent that this was a mistake, or at least a lost opportunity. Whenever I ride the Hiawatha line at midday I am struck by how much use it gets just from non commuters moving around the city. If I recall correctly the federal cost benefit analysis mechanism gives less credence to those types of trips.


At present, most people live in suburbia. For succesful transit system, it is necessary to have rail rapid transit deep into suburbs. The population of MSP metropolitan area generate more then 7.000.000 movements a day, and public transport is less then 5% of that movements. 

If ridership wouldn't be so high, to justify double track light rail, it is possible to start with one track light rail, or to use a freight railway to make hybrid regional light rail (in denser, central parts of the city on street light rail, commuter train from access to the freight railroad, to far suburbs.


Swede said:


> Would it be possible to have commuter rail lines connect the downtowns? That way there'd be a much faster option than the Green line for those travelling all the way.


USA railways are much different then european railways, and there is more difficulties to implement commuter rail:
1) MSP has 14 radial railroads in use, and few more abondoned. But only the railroad to St Cloud is (not at all) doubletracked. 
2) Throughput capacity of the railroads is much lower than in Europe. The reason is: USA freight companies found out the most cost-effective to have low number of very heavy very long freight trains. Cross stations are sometimes 50km or more from each other. 
3) Unnecessary acceleration and slowing of the heavy freight trains generate extra-costs to freight companies. Freight companies run most of freight trains without fixed schedule. In that case, freight companies sales the right for use for only a few hours a day, and in those hours freight transport is suspended or limited. Public transport companies try to choose only rush hours, in more loaded direction. With this kind of service rolling stocks and crew makes only 100-160km a day, the platforms are used only few hours a day, cost per passenger is higher, and development effect is limited.
4) In Europe, dispeachers from state companies operate with train traffic. In USA dispeachers are from freight companies, sometimes not ready to operate passenger trains on time, sometimes under pressure from freight company.

In long term, the commuter rail may have the main roll in transport in metropolitan area. Continuosly inhabited area has radius 25-30km (15-20miles) and only commuter rail could offer 30-40 mph average speed necessary for sustainable economy and development (in long term). Conception of service must be much different to the most of present USA commuter rail systems. I recommend the crosscity lines, for example: 

*Long Lake* – Wayzata – Minnetonka Mills – Coblecrest – Blackstone – *Target Fields* – St Anthony East – Stadium Village Station – Midway Station – Snelling Hamline – Summit Hill – West Seventh – *St Paul Union Depot* – Newport – St Paul Park – Cottage Grove – *Prescott. *

Not less then 1 train per hour must be standard for non rush hours and weekends, in further development 2-4 trains per hour in non rush hours and weekends. The most of tracks must be separeted from freight traffic, in few stages etc.


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

*Single-day LRT ridership tops 100K for first time*

Minor milestone on Metro Transit LRT ridership.



> Single-day ridership on the METRO Green and Blue lines recently topped 100,000 for the first time ever.
> 
> The milestone came on Saturday, Sept. 3, when there were a combined 100,909 light-rail rides. Nearly 64,000 rides were provided on the Green Line that day, while almost 37,000 rides were provided on the Blue Line.


http://www.metrotransit.org/single-day-lrt-ridership-tops-100k-for-first-time


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...-launches-tender-for-27-lrvs.html?channel=526
> 
> *Minneapolis launches tender for 27 LRVs*
> Friday, October 02, 2015
> ...


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## MrAronymous (Aug 7, 2011)

Um, aren't the current lines high-floor?


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## MSP (Sep 13, 2002)

^
Low floor


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

Here is a time lapse video of installation of A line bus station at the intersection of Snelling and University.







Here is video of riding Metro Green Line from Union Depot St. Paul to Target Field station in Minneapolis.






And Metro Blue Line from Target field station to Mall of America.


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## brewerfan386 (Apr 24, 2009)

desertpunk said:


> Light Rail at US Bank Stadium; Minneapolis, MN by Nick Benson, on Flickr


..


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## grant1simons2 (Aug 29, 2014)

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/nlx/meetings.html

Upcoming meetings:

Twin Cities (Minneapolis/**** Rapids stations)
Wednesday, Feb. 24
Fridley Community Center, 6-8 p.m.
6085 7th Street NE, Fridley

Twin Ports (Duluth/Superior stations)
Thursday, Feb. 25
Duluth Depot, 6-8 p.m.
506 Michigan Street West, Duluth

Cambridge
Monday, Feb. 29
Cambridge City Center, 6-8 p.m.
140 Buchanan Street North, Cambridge

Hinckley
Thursday, March 3
Hinckley-Finlayson High School, 6-8 p.m.
201 Main Street East, Hinckley

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://abcnewspapers.com/2016/02/04/rail-authority-authorizes-bids-to-sell-land/



> The Anoka County Regional Rail Authority voted Jan. 26 to go out for bids to sell property in **** Rapids it acquired in 2010 as a potential Foley Boulevard station site for the proposed Northern Lights Express passenger rail project.
> 
> The property comprises two parcels, one 9.37 acres and the other 3.96 acres, east of Foley Boulevard on the south side of the Highway 610 bridge in Evergreen Business Park at 93rd Lane and Evergreen Boulevard.
> 
> The rail authority paid $2.61 million for the parcels, but now the Minnesota Department of Transportation, which is the lead agency for the proposed NLX project, has identified another piece of county property on the west side of Foley Boulevard for a station location and has a prepared a concept plan, according to Tim Yantos, rail authority executive director.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Ramsey County revives St. Paul-to-Chicago rail study"

http://www.twincities.com/2016/02/09/ramsey-county-revives-st-paul-to-chicago-rail-study/



> On Tuesday, the Ramsey County Board of Commissioners voted to put up to $300,000 toward reviving the hamstrung planning efforts.
> 
> Meeting as the Regional Railroad Authority, the board voted 7-0 to finalize a partnership with the Minnesota Department of Transportation and move forward with the first phase of a $600,000 environmental assessment.
> 
> The first phase of the environmental study will be complete by the end of December 2017 and will produce finer estimates for construction, capital and operating costs, including a closer look at how subsidies might be divided between Minnesota and Wisconsin.


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

*Snelling BRT update*






http://www.startribune.com/snelling-bus-rapid-transit-prepares-for-departure/368399871/


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

*The Twin Cities’ first arterial version of Bus Rapid Transit, or BRT, is set to begin passenger service on June 11*



> *Seeking rail snobs: With BRT, Metro Transit aims to get more people onto buses*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


https://www.minnpost.com/politics-p...-brt-metro-transit-aims-get-more-people-buses




*And news on Greenline Extension*



> *With 2016 budget, feds remain committed to funding Southwest LRT — now it’s up to the Legislature*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


https://www.minnpost.com/dc-dispatc...ed-funding-southwest-lrt-now-it-s-legislature


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

*Plans emerging for Northern Lights Express*










Read more here: http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/news/3956490-plans-emerging-northern-lights-express


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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)

I thought this was a dead project?


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## Tower Dude (Oct 13, 2013)

No that's the other passenger rail project in Minnesota, Zip rail. Zip rail is cancelled as a public project but apparently there is private interest.


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

Suburb-to-suburb bus service has proven to be a bust in the western suburbs of Twin Cities.

http://www.startribune.com/suburb-to-suburb-express-bus-route-suspended/373314641/


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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)

*4th Quarter 2015 Daily Ridership numbers for Minneapolis *

*Light Rail*
Minneapolis / Metro LRT - 71,400 (2015) : 12.82% 

*Commuter Rail*
Minneapolis Suburbs / Northstar - 2,500 (2015) : 1.82% 

*Bus*
Minneapolis / Metro Transit - 202,800 (2015) : -7.09%
Burnsville / Minnesota Valley Transit - 10,900 (2015) : 5.75%
St. Cloud / St. Cloud Metrop Trans Comm - 7,800 (2015) : -7.91%
Eden Prairie / Southwest Metro Transit - 4,000 (2015) : -0.69%


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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)

*New light rail safety feature being rolled out system wide*


----------



## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)




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## elliot42 (Feb 22, 2007)

Sounds like the Twin Cities are getting (have gotten?) their act together. Bravo! Would that we were so in St. Louis. :sad2:


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)




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## ssiguy2 (Feb 19, 2005)

Thanks for the great vids.


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

Nice video Dimly's


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

*Twin Cities area transit update*

*A Line BRT* should be opening on June 11th 2016. A Line BRT

The other news on TC area transit are despite the fact that federal government has committed for the federal government's share for this project, the legislature at the state capitol couldn't compromise on comprehensive long term transportation bonding bill this session before the deadline which included 130 million dollars for *Green Line LRT Extension*. Hopefully CTIB and Met Council has emergency funds to help cover the short fall bestowed by transportation bonding bill impasse that occurred in state capitol.This is the last portion 20 percent of the funding (remaining 80 percent of the funding from the local governments is already committed) It is in FTA's Project Development phase. Heavy construction is expected to start 2017. Read more here

*Blue Line LRT Extension* has gotten municipal consent from five cities that lie in this corridor. They are on design phase as of now. Construction is expected to start in 2018. More...

*Orange Line BRT*: Funding commitments for the Orange Line have been provided by the Counties Transit Improvement Board, the State of Minnesota, the Metropolitan Council, Hennepin County, and the Federal government. The project recently received approval from the Federal Transit Administration to enter the project development and engineering phase, keeping the Orange Line on track for a 2019 opening. More..

*Gold Line BRT* is in DEIS (Draft Environment Impact Statement) phase. Read more here

*C Line BRT*: The final C Line Station Plan was approved by the Metropolitan Council on April 27, 2016. The plan finalizes the station locations and will serve to guide detailed design and engineering work that begins in 2016.Construction was originally targeted for 2017, pending full project funding. As of April 2016, the timeline for the C Line has been adjusted to construction occurring instead in 2018. Full funding for the project has not yet been identified, and a 2018 construction schedule offers better opportunities to coordinate C Line construction with other road projects on Brooklyn Boulevard and Penn Avenue. Metro Transit is working to advance project engineering throughout 2016-2017 and begin construction in 2018.C Line BRT

The other lines are Riverview Corridor the last leg of the giant triangle that connects downtown St Paul to the airport is being studied. No color has been assigned for this corridor. The transit planners and Ramsey County wants this to be LRT. More studies are being done on this Line.

Nicollet-Central Corridor streetcar project starter line has been delayed by a year. Met Council has assumed responsibility for this project from city of Minneapolis so it might fall behind further in the pipeline. More..

Mode for Red Rock Corridor has been chosen to be a highway BRT. This line will run 30 miles from Union Depot in downtown St Paul to Hastings MN. 

Midtown Corridor has been quiet for some time.

St Paul is doing feasibility studies on it's streetcar lines.

You can browse more on Met Council's website and Transitway Guidelines under transportation.


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## sdery (Jun 27, 2014)

Are there any plans to put the LRT underground in downtown Minneapolis? Given the winter weather there I would have thought that they would have built it underground from the start.


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

sdery said:


> Are there any plans to put the LRT underground in downtown Minneapolis? Given the winter weather there I would have thought that they would have built it underground from the start.


 I haven't found anything in the Met Council or Metro Transit's website or any literature that pertains to boring a tunnel for transit underneath downtown so far. So the answer is no. Possibly in the future who knows.


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## 00Zy99 (Mar 4, 2013)

achybo said:


> I haven't found anything in the Met Council or Metro Transit's website or any literature that pertains to boring a tunnel for transit underneath downtown so far. So the answer is no. Possibly in the future who knows.


No boring? What about cut-and-cover? :lol:


----------



## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

*MN: Rapid Buses Begin Rolling Saturday on St. Paul's Snelling Avenue*



> June 11--On Friday, a group of elected officials and transportation advocates celebrated a rare bit of good news involving public transit: The start of new rapid bus service along Snelling Avenue, the busy thoroughfare that runs through the heart of St. Paul.
> 
> The sleek new buses are slated to begin service on Saturday.


http://www.masstransitmag.com/news/...-rolling-saturday-on-st-pauls-snelling-avenue

Here are some pictures from the event on Metro Transit's flickr page.

Metro Transit A Line Opening Day by Metro Transit, on Flickr

Metro Transit A Line Opening Day by Metro Transit, on Flickr

Metro Transit A Line Opening Day by Metro Transit, on Flickr

Metro Transit A Line Opening Day by Metro Transit, on Flickr

Metro Transit A Line Opening Day by Metro Transit, on Flickr

Metro Transit A Line Opening Day by Metro Transit, on Flickr

Metro Transit A Line Opening Day by Metro Transit, on Flickr

Metro Transit A Line Opening Day by Metro Transit, on Flickr

Metro Transit A Line Opening Day by Metro Transit, on Flickr

Metro Transit A Line Opening Day by Metro Transit, on Flickr

Metro Transit A Line Opening Day by Metro Transit, on Flickr

Metro Transit A Line Opening Day by Metro Transit, on Flickr

Metro Transit A Line Opening Day by Metro Transit, on Flickr

Metro Transit A Line Opening Day by Metro Transit, on Flickr

Metro Transit A Line Opening Day by Metro Transit, on Flickr

Metro Transit A Line Opening Day by Metro Transit, on Flickr

Metro Transit A Line Opening Day by Metro Transit, on Flickr


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

LRT in Mpls will be key in bringing fans on gamedays to the brand new US Bank Stadium.


Downtown MPLX by Mongo X, on Flickr


----------



## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

Green Line with Vikings stadium in the backdrop

Light Rail in Minneapolis by Lucie Maru, on Flickr


----------



## Paddington (Mar 30, 2006)

Nice pics. Everything very nice and clean.


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## Tågälskaren (May 9, 2005)

*Final environmental study for Bottineau Blue Line light rail published
*
$1.54 billion Blue Line segment remains on track to open in 2021. 

July 15, 2016 — 10:01pm 

The Southwest light-rail line may be mired in financial uncertainty, but the next LRT project in the works took a key step forward Friday with the release of the final environmental review for the Bottineau Blue Line extension from Minneapolis to Brooklyn Park[...]


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## Tågälskaren (May 9, 2005)

*What happens to suburbs if Southwest light rail isn't built?*

After significant development, leaders worry about the fate of their cities if line never comes[...]



> It’s been said that if you build it, they will come.
> 
> But what if they’ve already arrived — and then you don’t build it after all?
> 
> That’s the situation facing suburbs along the proposed Southwest Light Rail Transit line as legislators continue their long battle over the line’s state funding.


----------



## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

*Southwest LRT clears milestone but still faces funding shortage*

Optimism is still there but with the fingers crossed.



> “We’re not breaking out the champagne yet, but this is still outstanding news,” said Adam Duininck, chairman of the Metropolitan Council, the builder and ultimate operator of the 14.5-mile line slated to link downtown Minneapolis with Eden Prairie.
> 
> The announcement, considered a key milestone in transit planning, was made at a Southwest Corridor Management Committee meeting, an advisory group.
> 
> ...


http://m.startribune.com/southwest-lrt-clears-milestone-but-still-faces-funding-shortage/387876742/

Maybe something can be worked out at the special session that the governor is planning to call in August.
https://www.minnpost.com/politics-p...eaders-vow-work-toward-august-special-session


----------



## Tågälskaren (May 9, 2005)

by user *tcrailfan15*


----------



## Tågälskaren (May 9, 2005)

By ThomasRosieFan2


----------



## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

*Region's first rapid bus service provides big boost to ridership*

I'm not convinced that it is game changer but it is heading towards the right direction.



> More and more people are using public transit in the corridor served by the region's first rapid bus line. Since the A Line opened on June 11, ridership in the service corridor has increased by more than a third.
> 
> The A Line provides faster, more frequent service between the Rosedale Transit Center and the METRO Blue Line’s 46th Street Station, with service on Snelling Avenue, Ford Parkway and 46th Street, and a connection to the METRO Green Line’s Snelling Avenue Station.
> 
> Nearly 120,000 rides were taken on the A Line during its first 30 days of operation, including three free-ride days to introduce customers to the new service. Another 23,000 rides were taken on Route 84, which continues to provide less frequent local bus service on Snelling Avenue......












http://www.metrotransit.org/regions-first-rapid-bus-service-provides-big-boost-to-ridership


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## Tågälskaren (May 9, 2005)

*Southwest Light Rail delays costing $1 million each week*

Long-standing hopes for a new light rail connecting Eden Prairie to Minneapolis-St. Paul could soon be dashed as supporters continue to wait for House leadership to approve state funding for the project[...]


----------



## Tågälskaren (May 9, 2005)

*Bottineau light rail wins critical Hennepin County funding*

The Bottineau Blue Line light-rail project, which is slated to link Minneapolis to the northern suburbs, cleared another milestone Tuesday when a Hennepin County board agreed to fund nearly 10 percent of the $1.54 billion project[...]


----------



## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

*Metro Transit honored as System of the Year*



> Metro Transit is celebrating a top national award that recognizes its record ridership and success in a range of areas, including safety, operations, maintenance and community relations.
> 
> The agency has received the American Public Transportation Association's (APTA) 2016 Outstanding Public Transportation System Achievement Award. The prestigious annual award, also known as System of the Year, reflects accomplishments made between 2013 and 2015.
> 
> Those accomplishments include growing ridership, expanding access, advances in sustainability and overall success in system safety. Metro Transit was selected among agencies from across North America that provide more than 20 million annual passenger trips....


https://www.metrotransit.org/metro-transit-honored-as-system-of-the-year

Metro Transit honored as System of the Year by Metro Transit, on Flickr


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## Tågälskaren (May 9, 2005)

*Squabbling continues on MN special session, light rail*

*Minnesota leaders get testy over light-rail deadlock*

*Dayton: Special Session Will Not Occur Without Light Rail*


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

*Dayton: There won’t be a special session in 2016*



> Gov. Mark Dayton said he won’t call a special session of the Minnesota Legislature, after months of negotiations failed produce any movement on an impasse over light rail transit funding.
> 
> After a brief meeting between Dayton and top leaders in the Legislature Thursday, Dayton said negotiations hadn’t progressed since the final night of the 2016 session, when a one-time transportation funding bill and nearly $1 billion package of bonding projects blew up over whether a funding mechanism for light rail was included.
> 
> In the weeks after session ended, Dayton also vetoed a $260 million package of tax cuts because the bill included a drafting error surrounding taxation of bingo halls that would cost the state $100 million over the next three years.


https://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/2016/08/dayton-there-won-t-be-special-session-2016



> The uncertainty could have gone on indefinitely, but Mark Dayton didn’t see the point.
> 
> On Thursday, after three months of sporadic meetings and dueling press conferences with legislative leaders, the DFL governor put an end to the possibility that he’ll call legislators back for a one-day special session to resolve outstanding issues of the 2016 session.
> 
> “I’ve concluded that after almost three months of futile efforts to reach an agreement to bring the Legislature back … I’m not going to call a special session,” Dayton told reporters, after a meeting with legislators that lasted less than 30 minutes.


https://www.minnpost.com/politics-p...ecial-session-expect-hear-lot-about-southwest

Though Governor Dayton will talk to Met Council chair Adam Duininick about the funding gap so they don't jeopardize the Federal funding, I really hope there will be changing of guards come November after the election. It is extremely frustrating to see impasse at the state capitol and the constant threat by the Republicans trying to derail transit projects in the Twin Cities.


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

So much for the negativity now. Let's cherish what we got. Some pictures of TC Transit by various photographers.

Minneapolis Green line and Blue line around new Vikings stadium

_DSC3848 by Joe Wolf, on Flickr


US Bank Stadium Wedge Attempt 1; Minneapolis, MN by Nick Benson, on Flickr

Blue Line Franklin Ave Station

Light Rail Station by Lucie Maru, on Flickr

Green Line in downtown St Paul

Wet tracks by Lucie Maru, on Flickr


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## Tågälskaren (May 9, 2005)

*Dayton seeks a plan B to pay for Southwest light rail*









The planned route for the Southwest light rail line, as of April 2016. Courtesy of the Metropolitan Council 

Gov. Mark Dayton is looking for fresh options to get the Southwest Corridor light rail project built[...]


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## Sterlyng65 (Oct 23, 2011)

This project will help a lot for the metro area. Let's stand for public transit for this area and others.


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

Tågälskaren said:


> *Dayton seeks a plan B to pay for Southwest light rail*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If DFL takes the majority in state legislature this fall I really hope that governor Dayton comes with some sort of funding mechanism for future transit throughout the metro like Denver and what Seattle is trying to do so it doesn't rely on state like this one. Non presidential midterm election seems to favor GOP most of the time that which is not until 2018. So if funding source is already in place by then GOP lawmakers can't monkey around like what they are trying to do right now so the future projects can be built without hitting any snags.


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## Jennifat (Aug 7, 2005)

Sterlyng65 said:


> This project will help a lot for the metro area. Let's stand for public transit for this area and others.


If you knew anything about the pointless route that the Southwest corridor LRT line currently follows (it largely snakes through random suburban business parks and marshes and doesn't even serve urban neighborhoods in Minneapolis), you'd see why it's not exactly the best or the most crucial next line for the Twin Cities.


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

*Minneapolis St Paul updates*

*Met Council: Southwest light rail gets federal green light*

The met council finally got approval from the feds to start construction on Southwest LRT also known as Green Line extension. This is huge after years of drama lawsuits not so transit friendly administation along with constant threats from the state GOP lawmakers of derailment. Green Line extension will run 15 miles from Minneapolis through southwest suburbs of St Louis Park, Hopkins, Minnetonka terminating in Eden Prairie. Daily ridership is estimated to be around 34 thousand by the year 2040. 



> The Metropolitan Council says it has received an important approval from the federal government for funding the Southwest Light Rail Transit Project.
> 
> Construction on the $2 billion project could begin this winter. With a critical thumbs-up for the project by the Federal Transit Administration, the council is confident that the federal government will subsequently provide $929 million to fund the light rail line.
> 
> Met Council Chair Alene Tchourumoff says they can now award construction bids. A vote to award a contract to the apparent low bidder will be held Thursday.


https://www.mprnews.org/story/2018/11/14/southwest-light-rail-line-important-nod-from-feds


*Flyover video of the alignment.*






*
Stations animated videos*

Eden Prairie Staion 






Bryn Mawr Station






Hopkins Station


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

*FTA ANNOUNCES FULL FEDERAL FUNDING OF ORANGE LINE BRT*

Another milestone for Orange Line BRT



> The Federal Transit Administration (FTA) today announced it will be fully funding the federal share of $74.1 million for the METRO Orange Line Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) project, a 17-mile transitway planned for the region’s busiest express bus corridor. The announcement means the $150.7 million project has now secured all funding, and can move into the final stage of construction



https://metrocouncil.org/News-Event...nces-Full-Federal-Funding-of-Orange-Line.aspx


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

Green Line Extension ground breaking tomorrow.



> It took more than a decade, but on Friday, key stakeholders and public officials will break ground on the Southwest Corridor light rail line.
> 
> It's a day some thought they'd never see: ballooning costs, lawsuits, delayed contracts and opposition from politicians and neighbors alike repeatedly threatened to derail the 14.5-mile transit project. But in November, the Federal Transit Administration issued a "letter of no prejudice" for the project, a small but significant step needed to secure the nearly $2 billion to build the line, the largest public works project in state history


https://www.mprnews.org/story/2018/11/29/officials-break-ground-on-southwest-light-rail


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

Here is a video by Met Council on Green Line Extension groundbreaking.

https://www.pscp.tv/MetCouncilNews/1kvJpEwDjeMxE


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

The C Line (express bus between downtown Minneapolis and Brooklyn Center) begins service 2019.06.08.

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/...-line-set-to-launch-early-june-electric-buses









https://twitter.com/RobinGarwood/status/1098664392097435650









https://www.metrotransit.org/c-line-project


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

The updated Metro Transit map. This includes all the completed, planned and under construction corridors.










https://www.metrotransit.org/Data/Sites/1/media/metro/metro-rebrand-map-vision-final.pdf


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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)

Its a Shame the Rush Corridor is going to be BRT instead of DMU commuter rail.


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

Nexis said:


> Its a Shame the Rush Corridor is going to be BRT instead of DMU commuter rail.


I think the ridership projection is pretty low and was even lucky that they were able to squeeze a real BRT with 90% of the route running on dedicated ROW out of this deal.


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

The C Line opened today.


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

Pictures from Metro Transit's Flickr page of C Line Opening day:

METRO C Line Opening Day by Metro Transit, on Flickr

METRO C Line Opening Day by Metro Transit, on Flickr

METRO C Line Opening Day by Metro Transit, on Flickr

METRO C Line Opening Day by Metro Transit, on Flickr

METRO C Line Opening Day by Metro Transit, on Flickr


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

"*Metro Transit bets big on the appeal of rapid buses to boost ridership*"

http://www.startribune.com/metro-tr...-of-rapid-buses-to-boost-ridership/566451092/


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

Map of future "B" line BRT corridor









https://www.metrotransit.org/b-line-project


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

Pictures of now under construction Green Line extension LRT


https://metrocouncil.org/Transporta...y-Updates/2019-Year-End-Photo-Highlights.aspx


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

"*Southwest light-rail construction work tunnels through tight quarters in Minneapolis*"

http://www.startribune.com/construc...est-light-rail-tunnel/566978052/?refresh=true


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

"*METRO GOLD LINE CLEARS FIRST ENVIRONMENTAL MILESTONE*"

https://metrocouncil.org/News-Event...Line-clears-environmental-milestone-2020.aspx


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## ssiguy2 (Feb 19, 2005)

Except for very high volume routes, BRT is the way to go. They are just as fast as LRT {especially new electric/battery vehicles} are a fraction the amount to build and offer greater flexibility and easier expansion.


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## Aaraldi (Dec 6, 2014)

Buses have longer dwell time due to the passenger ergonomics, door placements and time lost at aligning and departing from platforms/curbs. This significantly lengthen travel times compared to a LRT line with the same stop spacing. It also means u need more drivers and buses for the same line to achieve the same frequency. 

About construction costs: The ridiculous high construction costs in the US aren't god given. In Europe a LRT line along this corridor would be built at $10-15 million/km given the wide road space available. That would be $200 -300 million for a expansion of the green line offering single seats rides for a lot more destinations.


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

"*All levels now open at updated Apple Valley Transit Station ramp*"

https://www.mvta.com/news/all-levels-now-open-at-updated-apple-valley-transit-station-ramp/

This is great news for suburban bus customers in the bedroom community of Apple Valley, as they have more places to leave their cars and hop on the bus.


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

"*New $25 million Mall of America transit station set to welcome visitors 'in style'*"

http://www.startribune.com/overhaul...ansit-station-officially-dedicated/567885132/









RENEE JONES SCHNEIDER – STAR TRIBUNE









RENEE JONES SCHNEIDER – STAR TRIBUNE


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Metro Report:









Plans for light rail project to share BNSF corridor dropped


USA: Following what they described as 'years of unsuccessful discussions with BNSF Railway', the promoters of the Minneapolis Metro Blue Line Extension project have abandoned plans for the colocation of light rail and freight services. The Metro Blue Line Extension, also known as Bottineau Light...




www.railwaygazette.com


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Metro Report:









Southwest LRT federal funding confirmed


USA: After several years of negotiation, the Federal Transit Administration has formally approved a $928·8m Full Funding Grant Agreement to support construction of the Green Line extension of the light rail network in Minneapolis, which will run southwest of the city to Eden Prairie.




www.railwaygazette.com


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## Tsurumi (Dec 4, 2020)

I was impressed with the blue line that is a direct connection between the airport and downtown Minneapolis (and to the MOA). It's one of the few examples of really great integration of transport in the US. However, i wish there was a line connecting downtown St. Paul directly to the airport.


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## hailmike (Jul 18, 2014)

Looking for a little help from the MSP transit SSC members.

Milwaukee is looking at upgrading its service in the 27th street corridor. It is currently served mainly by an "express" bus line that runs in mixed traffic and comes roughly every 8 minutes. An 11 mile trip from the south side to the north side currently takes 40 minutes while a comparable car trip is a little more than half the time (24 minutes.) It is the regions most used bus route and they are looking in to all alternatives including light rail, streetcar, BRT, and partial commuter rail to improve it.

With that said, one of the comments at a recent webinar for the project was that Milwaukee should use the MSP Green Line as an example and build a similar light rail. I've researched a little, but I was wondering if anyone had some good resources or thoughts they could share on the Green Line specific to its construction, things it does (and doesn't) do well, and what you would do differently if you could.

PS Feel free to move this in to another forum if it doesn't belong here. I am merely looking for visibility to those familiar with the Green Line.


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## diz (Nov 1, 2005)

hailmike said:


> Looking for a little help from the MSP transit SSC members.
> 
> Milwaukee is looking at upgrading its service in the 27th street corridor. It is currently served mainly by an "express" bus line that runs in mixed traffic and comes roughly every 8 minutes. An 11 mile trip from the south side to the north side currently takes 40 minutes while a comparable car trip is a little more than half the time (24 minutes.) It is the regions most used bus route and they are looking in to all alternatives including light rail, streetcar, BRT, and partial commuter rail to improve it.
> 
> ...


Here are all of the federally required documents for its construction: METRO Green Line - Metropolitan Council


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

plan to expand BRT in the Twin Cities area













Arterial Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) Planning - Metro Transit







www.metrotransit.org


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

Major service expansion planned for 2021.08.21 as more workers return to the office






Page Not Found - Metro Transit







www.metrotransit.org


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

Green Line backdrop by Mark Evans, on Flickr


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## achybo (Feb 20, 2013)

Minneapolis Orange Line Highway BRT connecting downtown to the City of Burnsville officially made its debut over the weekend.








Orange Line opens, connecting Mpls. to Burnsville on I-35W


The Orange Line, Metro Transit’s latest addition to its complement of rapid transit routes, opened on December 4.




spokesman-recorder.com





From Metro Transit's Flickr page

Lake Street Station-3583 by Metro Transit, on Flickr

Untitled by Metro Transit, on Flickr

Untitled by Metro Transit, on Flickr

Untitled by Metro Transit, on Flickr

DSC_2544 by Metro Transit, on Flickr


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*Uncertain future for Southwest Light Rail, Northstar commuter line *
KSTP _Excerpt_
Dec 3, 2021

It's a tale of two public transit train lines with uncertain futures. We don't know when the new $2 billion Southwest Light Rail Transit (SWLRT) line will open or whether the Northstar commuter rail line will close.

"I don't have a date for you yet, but we are making real progress in working with the contractors on resequencing the project so we don't have any additional costs that are not necessary," Metropolitan Council Chairman Charlie Zelle said about the Southwest line in an interview recorded for "At Issue."

"We're trying to be smart about it. Time is money and the longer it gets delayed the more costs we'll incur so we're making sure we get it open as quickly as possible," Zelle said.

More : Uncertain future for Southwest Light Rail, Northstar commuter line


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

IMG_2767_Adj by Nadim Ahmed, on Flickr


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