# UNITED STATES | Freight Railways



## Coccodrillo (Sep 30, 2005)

Hi, does anybody know some figures about freight trains in the USA?

Like the millions of tonnes transported by rail on major mountain passes, the grade of their railways, the number of daily trains (if possible, counting also passengers trains) and weigth and lenght of these trains, to compare with europeans lines.


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## Yardmaster (Jun 1, 2004)

Coccodrillo said:


> Hi, does anybody know some figures about freight trains in the USA?
> 
> Like the millions of tonnes transported by rail on major mountain passes, the grade of their railways, the number of daily trains (if possible, counting also passengers trains) and weigth and lenght of these trains, to compare with europeans lines.


it was recently stated here that 38% of US freight went by rail, and that was far above the situation in Europe. Interestingly, in Japan, freight goes by road and the people take the train.


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## Chicagoago (Dec 2, 2005)

U.S. railways carried 427 billion ton-miles of cargo annually in 1930. This increased to 750 billion ton-miles in 1975, and had doubled to 1.5 trillion ton-miles in 2005


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## Coccodrillo (Sep 30, 2005)

Thank you.

Do you know also how many goods transported the busiest railway in the USA (in million of tonnes, not tons-mile or tons-km, to compare with Europenan lines - even if I know yet that American's railways are more heavily used).


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*U.S. railroads see coal boom continuing *
11 September 2008
By Nick Zieminski

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. railroads expect shipments of coal to remain strong for the foreseeable future, supporting the rail sector's double-digit earnings growth in coming years, industry executives said on Thursday.

Railroads, including CSX Corp, Union Pacific Corp., Norfolk Southern Corp. and Burlington Northern Santa Fe Corp, all highlighted coal shipments as a key growth area in presentations at a transports conference.

CSX raised its 2008 profit forecast, citing pricing and industry momentum, and said long-term earnings growth would be higher than previously expected, sending its shares up more than 10 percent. Other rail stocks also rallied.

Shipments from the U.S. Appalachian coal region to Atlantic and Gulf Coast ports, which account for 29 percent of CSX revenue, should remain strong for the next few years, CSX Chief Financial Officer Oscar Munoz told the Dahlman Rose Transportation Conference on Thursday.

"We have in hand the demand that we see," he said, citing long-term contracts. "It's tangible, not hoping and wishing."

CSX also raised its 2008 capital expenditure budget to $1.75 billion, from $1.6 billion, partly because of increased spending on new coal train cars.

CSX RAISES FORECAST

Railroads have benefited in recent quarters from global demand for metals, fertilizers and ethanol, offsetting softer shipments of autos, some consumer products, and freight related to housing. They have also invested in productivity improvements and picked up business from trucking by emphasizing the relative fuel efficiency of shipping by rail.

Strong momentum is expected to continue beyond 2008, Jacksonville, Florida-based CSX said. It expects 2008 earnings of $3.65 per share to $3.75 per share, up from its earlier outlook of $3.40 to $3.60 and above the $3.57 expected by analysts polled by Reuters Estimates.

CSX said it expects compound annual earnings growth of 20 percent to 25 percent through 2010 over 2008.

CSX shares rose $5.92, or 10.8 percent, to close at $60.77. Burlington added $4.93, or 5 percent, to end at $104.37. Union Pacific Corp gained $4.83, or 6.5 percent, at $78.64. Norfolk Southern was up $3.01, or 4.6 percent, at $68.48. All trade on the New York Stock Exchange.

The Dow Jones Transports index was up 11 percent year-to-date, counting Thursday's advance of 3.4 percent. The broader Standard & Poor's 500 index finished 1.4 percent higher.

"Domestic and export markets continue to provide opportunities for expansion," Longbow Research analyst Lee Klaskow said in a research note. "The solid coal market should benefit Norfolk Southern as well."

GLOBAL DEMAND

Coal demand has soared in recent years among steel producers in emerging markets like China, and among power producers. Exports are up 63 percent this year, helped by a weak U.S. dollar and production limitations in Australia, Norfolk Southern said.

World demand for coal is expected to jump another 57 percent by 2030, western rail giant Union Pacific said.

"Western coal is one of the most abundant natural resources in the world," Union Pacific's CFO Robert Knight said. "Demand for coal will continue to drive volumes."

Shipments of energy-related products, including coal, are up this quarter, helping offset lower auto volumes, Union Pacific said. It expects about $5 billion in energy-related revenue this year, up from $4.3 billion in 2007.

"We're very bullish on coal," Tom Hund, CFO of Burlington Northern Santa Fe, told the transports conference. Burlington ships coal from the Powder River Basin (PRB) area in Wyoming and Montana, almost all of it for domestic energy production. Coal accounts for 22 percent of Burlington revenue.

Burlington did not update its earnings forecast but said it expects long-term, double-digit earnings growth to continue.

Half of U.S. power generation comes from coal, versus about 20 percent each generated by nuclear and natural gas plants, and coal is expected to become even more dominant.

Western coal will account for the bulk of that increase in coming years, Hund said, because it is easier to dig up and less of it is exported. As a result, Burlington is seeing more interest from East Coast utilities.

"We'll continue to see PRB coal migrate east," Hund said.


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## HigerBigger (Aug 11, 2008)

If anybody want to compare the European rail freight situation with other parts of the world, I will suggest to also look at South Africa and Australia. Also do not forget Canada, Russia, Brazil and India.

South Africa compares well with Europe with shorter distances than that of the USA and a network that is electrified for all the main corridors. The smallest of freight trains in South Africa is bigger that biggest (excluding Ore trains in Sweden) than the freight trains in Europe. The biggest freight trains in South Africa will transport up to 30 000 tons of Iron ore in one train that is 3.5 kilometer long. These long trains use Electronically controlled Pneumatic brakes and the Federal Railroad Administration of the USA is taking the South African standard and this will now becomes the American standard. Remember that the South African network is narrow gauge with a gauge of only 1067mm or 3 foot 6 inches. 

The Rail freight company, Transnet Freight Rail (TFR), is the second most profitable railway company in the world after America Latina Logistica (ALL) in Brazil. ALL achieves an Operating Profit margin of 42%, TFR a margin of 30% followed by Indian Railways with 27% and then Canadian National with 24%. Interesting is that ALL in Brazil mostly run their freight trains on 1 meter gauge lines. During my last visit to ALL it was interesting to see representative of at least 3 of the biggest USA freight companies looking at the processes and technology of ALL as they were achieving better productivity figures that any USA railway.

Average freight rates is most probable the lowest in South Africa due the high usage of electric traction - TFR spend only 10% of total expenditure on Energy - the lowest in the world and the energy cost per tonnekm in South Africa is about a third of that of the USA. Europe will be able to replicate this with electrified networks although the ratio of diesel freight trains to electric freight trains in France and Germany (Europe) is higher than that of TFR in South Africa.

Just for those interested parties, TFR in South Africa transports more freight by rail than France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Belgium, Switserland and Austria combined. This is achieved even with a population of less than 15% of that of the countries listed combined.


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## mgk920 (Apr 21, 2007)

Canada and the USA are essentially one country when it comes to their freight railroad networks - the integration of their physical plants, technical standards and operating companies is that great.

Also, yes, North American freight railroads are straining under their traffic loads, this after making major cutbacks and rationalizations during the second half of the 20th century.

Mike


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## zaphod (Dec 8, 2005)

I think to some degree Mexico could also be included...I think, does anyone know for sure?

They do use the same kinds of locomotives and rolling stock and a few companies own track on both sides of the border


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## mgk920 (Apr 21, 2007)

zaphod said:


> I think to some degree Mexico could also be included...I think, does anyone know for sure?
> 
> They do use the same kinds of locomotives and rolling stock and a few companies own track on both sides of the border


Yepper, you can include Mexico in that, too, their railroads are fully interoperable with those of the USA and Canada and have STRONG ownership ties with the USA. When Mexico de-nationalized the NDEM (Ferrocarriles Nationales de Mexico) a few years back, its various lines were purchased by several consortia backed by other USA-based railroad companies (Mexican law requires that at least 51% of the shares be held by Mexico-based owners). The largest chunk is with the Kansas City Southern.

Mike


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## mgk920 (Apr 21, 2007)

Coccodrillo said:


> Hi, does anybody know some figures about freight trains in the USA?
> 
> Like the millions of tonnes transported by rail on major mountain passes, the grade of their railways, the number of daily trains (if possible, counting also passengers trains) and weigth and lenght of these trains, to compare with europeans lines.


As for some of your original questions, the maximum major mainline grade that I am aware of is about 3% on UP and BNSF as the descend from Cajon Pass into the Los Angeles, CA metro area (roughly along I-15 north of San Bernardino, CA). This trackage is INTENSELY busy, too.

The World's busiest freight railroad is Union Pacific's mainline between Gibbon, NE and Sutherland, NE (this is about 900-1000 km west of Chicago). This line averages 120-130 freight trains per day and includes the World's largest and busiest railroad yard, located at North Platte, NE. Many trains on this line (ie, loaded coal trains) will normally go about 2 km long and weigh upwards of 14.000-15.000 t. Other trains on this line (ie, containers) will easily go over 3 km long.

Mike


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## Coccodrillo (Sep 30, 2005)

Do you know the weight of goods transported in a year by these trains (without counting the weight of waggons), especially on the line with 3% grade?

I would compare this traffic with similar European railroads, for sure with few freight traffic compared to American oens.


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## jkjkjk (Feb 28, 2007)

In a total numbers, UIC statistic for freight millions tonne-kilometres in 2007 are:
United States 2820 
China 2211 
Russia 2090 
India 480.99 
older figures (2005,2006)
European Union 382.7 
Canada 352.1 
Ukraine 240.8 
Brazil 232.3
Kazakhstan 191.19 
South Africa 108.51 
Germany 89.69 
Mexico 54.39 
Australia 46.04 
Belarus 45.72 
Poland 42.65 
France 42.12 

for rail share of freight transport, OECD 2005 figures are (coastal shipping excluded, pipelines included in total):
United States 40%
Russia 56%
Canada 38% 
Germany 18%
Mexico 10%
Australia 42%
Poland 33%
France 17%


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## sotavento (May 12, 2005)

HigerBigger said:


> If anybody want to compare the European rail freight situation with other parts of the world, I will suggest to also look at South Africa and Australia. Also do not forget Canada, Russia, Brazil and India.
> 
> South Africa compares well with Europe with shorter distances than that of the USA and a network that is electrified for all the main corridors. The smallest of freight trains in South Africa is bigger that biggest (excluding Ore trains in Sweden) than the freight trains in Europe. The biggest freight trains in South Africa will transport up to 30 000 tons of Iron ore in one train that is 3.5 kilometer long. These long trains use Electronically controlled Pneumatic brakes and the Federal Railroad Administration of the USA is taking the South African standard and this will now becomes the American standard. Remember that the South African network is narrow gauge with a gauge of only 1067mm or 3 foot 6 inches.
> 
> ...


hno:

South Africa has roughly the same area/size as France+Germany+Poland(plus add luxembourg + nederlands + belgium) put together ... these 3(6) countries are roughly the double of the SA traffic ... and consider that neither is a large raw materials provider nor a big railfreight user (france's railways are actualy losing a great share every year). :cheers:

About the USA ... considering that the USA + canada are about the same size than Europe from Portugal(west) to the Urals (middle of russia in the east) with only 1/2 the population ... everything has to be shipped by container from one large urban region to another somehow .. usualy it's done by train. :lol: 

Theres no need to overextend the european railway networks to acomodate quilometers long trains ... simply add enough trains to haul the cargo more easily.

Example ... hour local coal trains run in a roundabound using the current railways (300km between the port and the power station) with 3 to 4 trains of "only" 2000ton per direction each day ... do you think that a 10.000 ton train per day train would be more usefull ??? For that you either needed a segregated railway our you ended up with the kind of ultra restrictive railway directives of FRA in the USA ... so this way we get both 2000ton coal trains and 230km/h high speed trains in the same railway (and at the same time) ... and considering that the majority of the freight in europe is being moved less than 500km. :cheers: 

And remember ... SA is in south africa ... 3rd world (expression not to be taken that way) so not everything is overpriced like in Europe (starting by the high electricity costs). hno:

Everything has its own reasons for being ... long trains are an american/canadian/sa/australia feature ... in europe's environment they are basicaly useless since direct door to door express freight is much more simple to handle.


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## hoosier (Apr 11, 2007)

America needs to expand its freight rail lines and improve the bottlenecks that make increased use of rail for freight shipment difficult.

The Chicago-NW Indiana region is a key chokepoint in America's freight rail system.


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## sotavento (May 12, 2005)

Seen this and rememberedthis thread:



> The Ministry of Transport in Jordan unveiled its railway development plan at the end of July which would see two lines totalling 1 018 km built by 2013. A north-south route would run from the Syrian border to Aqaba via Mafraq, Amman and Ma’an, whilst an east-west route would run from Mafraq to the Iraq border via Irbid and Azraq. A link with the north-south line in Saudi Arabia is also envisaged. Total cost is put at 2·9bn dinars for the infrastructure and 1·4bn for rolling stock.
> 
> Participating in a ceremony on August 4, when Iranian President Mahmud Ahmadinejad marked the start of work on a 4·1 km tunnel to carry the Tehran – Tabriz line through the capital’s suburbs, RAI Managing Director Hassan Ziari said he hoped work could start soon on electrification of the Tehran – Mashhad route, which will require the purchase of 70 electric locomotives capable of 200 km/h operation.
> 
> ...


See the differences ??? 

Offtopic: nothing beats multiple diesel locos hauling a quilometers long coal train to feed a power station wich will allow an electrified comuter/subway to operate. :cheers:


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## Chicagoago (Dec 2, 2005)

hoosier said:


> America needs to expand its freight rail lines and improve the bottlenecks that make increased use of rail for freight shipment difficult.
> 
> The Chicago-NW Indiana region is a key chokepoint in America's freight rail system.


There are huge fights going on in Chicago right now with the city and the suburbs, trying to find routes to increase capacity. Every day there are literally thousands of freight trains around the Chicago area trying to squeeze through on the old infrastructure.

It can take as long for a train to move halfway across the country as it can take to snake through the Chicago metro area.


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## hoosier (Apr 11, 2007)

Chicagoago said:


> There are huge fights going on in Chicago right now with the city and the suburbs, trying to find routes to increase capacity. Every day there are literally thousands of freight trains around the Chicago area trying to squeeze through on the old infrastructure.
> 
> It can take as long for a train to move halfway across the country as it can take to snake through the Chicago metro area.


I experience the jam first hand. The at-grade crossings need to be removed. And I noticed how just in NW Indiana so many rail lines have been torn up over the past fifty years. That has to stop. Rebuild the rail lines!!

Ultimately, laying more track and separating passenger from freight traffic on rail lines is what will have to happen. It is an expensive solution, but it has to happen and the gains made in decreased transportation costs and shipping time will make up for the expense.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*UNITED STATES | Freight*

*CSX CEO: slowdown could push customers to US rails *

DETROIT, Oct 15 (Reuters) - A slowing U.S. economy could push more customers to opt for the low-cost option of shipping their goods by train, the top executive of No. 3 U.S. railroad CSX Corp said on Wednesday.

"If the economy does get a little tougher, then more people will turn to the railroads as a cheaper alternative," Chief Executive Michael Ward told Reuters in a telephone interview. "I think we're also going to see more trucking companies partner up with the railroads, with us providing the long-haul service and them taking goods the last few miles to customers."

He added that the U.S. housing and automotive sectors should "continue to be challenged throughout 2009," but that CSX's business should continue to perform strongly regardless.

"While I wouldn't say that we're recession proof, we are somewhat recession resistant," Ward said. "More than 50 percent of the goods we haul are daily essentials."

"People are still going to need to eat, they're going to need to heat their homes and have someone haul the trash away. That's where we come in," he added.

CSX's CEO said the railroad was well into the process of re-pricing its contracts for 2009 and was confident it could raise freight rates at a similar pace to the 6 percent to 7 percent annual average increases of the past few years.

"Broadly speaking, we can expect to see the same price increases as we've seen in previous years," Ward said.

Ward said so far CSX has not seen the credit crunch impact its customers' ability to ship and pay for goods, but added that the railroad was "monitoring the situation daily."

CSX's CEO spoke to Reuters the day after the Jacksonville, Florida-based company reported a higher third-quarter profit as strong pricing offset a 2 percent decline in freight volumes.

The company also said its full-year 2008 earnings per share would come in at the low end of its previously stated range of $3.65 to $3.75, due to the weakening of the U.S. economy.

The major U.S. railroads have all posted strong profits in recent quarters despite faltering retail and auto sales and the worst housing crisis since the Great Depression, thanks to solid pricing.

"Rail shares have been battered in the last month on concerns over the economy and longer-term pricing power," Deutsche Bank analyst Marcelo Choi wrote in a note for clients. "While there could be some risk to 2009 EPS, CSX and other (major U.S. railroads) have proven in the past that they can get strong pricing despite softer volumes.

"If this scenario continues to play out, we think shares are attractively priced," he added.

In a note for clients, Merrill Lynch analyst Ken Hoexter raised full-year 2008 earnings-per-share estimates for CSX to $3.63 from $3.60, "slightly below the company's EPS target range as we remain cautious on the economy."

In New York Stock Exchange trading, CSX shares were down $4.66, or nearly 10 percent, at $43.48.


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## hoosier (Apr 11, 2007)

Rail should be responsible for long haul freight shipment with trucks doing the short haul shipments.

Why companies weren't shipping goods via rail before the economic downturn is beyond me. It is a far more environmentally friendly and efficient form of transportation.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

^ It's not as flexible and likely less profitable. The environment isn't always at the top of companies' concerns.


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## desertpunk (Oct 12, 2009)

*Fox Junction Denver*


Blue Hour at Fox Junction by GhoSStrider, on Flickr


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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)




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## mgk920 (Apr 21, 2007)

^^
The first clip is on the former Green Bay and Western mainline in far western Wisconsin, just northeast of Winona, MN. The containers were loaded by Ashley Furniture in nearby Arcadia, WI and the entire train is to be interchanged with the BNSF at East Winona (Winona Junction), WI.

Mike


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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)




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## IanCleverly (Nov 24, 2010)




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## IanCleverly (Nov 24, 2010)




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## desertpunk (Oct 12, 2009)

*Transport Politic*



> At the Heart of the U.S. Freight Rail System, Chicago Advances Grade Separation
> October 16th, 2011
> 
> 
> ...


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## IanCleverly (Nov 24, 2010)

A short-ish video of a BNSF train along the Alameda Corridor


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## desertpunk (Oct 12, 2009)

*Tilford Yard Atlanta*


Tilford Sunrise by AJ Brustein, on Flickr


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## dfwcre8tive (Oct 18, 2007)

Here's an interesting freight idea proposed in Texas: http://www.freightshuttle.com/

http://blogs.star-telegram.com/honk...freight-system-planned-for-i-35-corridor.html


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## XAN_ (Jan 13, 2011)

Well, someone can build a monorail system for transporting passengers with a tiny and cheap physical structures, that's is a point why monorail is better than conventional rail... But typical freight weights more than a fully loaded typical passenger unit, that means someone needs to build larger and more expansive physical structures, just like for elevated conventional rail lines... So what is the point of inventing something incompatible with existing network, if it has no positive points?


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## Sopomon (Oct 2, 2010)

XAN_ said:


> Well, someone can build a monorail system for transporting passengers with a tiny and cheap physical structures, that's is a point why monorail is better than conventional rail... But typical freight weights more than a fully loaded typical passenger unit, that means someone needs to build larger and more expansive physical structures, just like for elevated conventional rail lines... So what is the point of inventing something incompatible with existing network, if it has no positive points?


They believe their own hype.


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## hmmwv (Jul 19, 2006)

I have completely given up on innovations involving infrastructure investment in this country, they are bound to die in endless committee meetings, city council debates, and local referendums.


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## Don31 (Jun 21, 2010)

hmmwv said:


> I have completely given up on innovations involving infrastructure investment in this country, they are bound to die in endless committee meetings, city council debates, and local referendums.


Sad, but true unfortuneatly.


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## Don31 (Jun 21, 2010)

hammersklavier said:


> The best Wikipedia information suggests it's being worked on...slowly. Working around an active freight line takes quite a bit of time...and NS needs to undertake this project because CSX is likewise preparing its (closer to the sea) ROW for doublestacks (they're undercutting the line and reworking bridges in Philadelphia right now).
> 
> My guess is that the NS project will involve tunnel heightenings, too.


From an NS press release today:

_On July 1, 2012, Norfolk Southern will open the first new intermodal terminal as part of its Crescent Corridor project: the Memphis Regional Intermodal Facility at Rossville, TN. Along with new intermodal terminals in Birmingham, AL, and Greencastle, PA, Rossville is a key component of the $2.5 billion Crescent Corridor project. With future expansion, the Rossville terminal will cover over 400 acres, with 6 loading tracks and
2,200 parking spaces._


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## Jay (Oct 7, 2004)

hmmwv said:


> I have completely given up on innovations involving infrastructure investment in this country, they are bound to die in endless committee meetings, city council debates, and local referendums.


Yea this is why people call Americans stupid, the priorities are the polar opposite of what they should be.


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## Fan Railer (Dec 1, 2010)

Jay said:


> Yea this is why people call Americans stupid, the priorities are the polar opposite of what they should be.


Problem is that no one in this country is willing to sacrifice to see ultimate progress. They'd rather save money and deal with the crumbling infrastructure we have now until it falls apart. THEN it's a catastrophe, ie, Mississippi River bridge collapse.


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

Jay said:


> Yea this is why people call Americans stupid, the priorities are the polar opposite of what they should be.


Yeah, not going through with a freight monorail makes Americans stupid. :bash:


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## aming.cupu (Jun 18, 2012)

semoga BKB Semarang Bisa seperti ini


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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)




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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...fic-announces-39bn-capital-plan-for-2014.html
> 
> *Union Pacific announces $3·9bn capital plan for 2014*
> 14 Feb 2014
> ...


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## Sopomon (Oct 2, 2010)

I'm guessing that arrow wedge is a terrifying-looking snow-plough?


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## hmmwv (Jul 19, 2006)

Sopomon said:


> I'm guessing that arrow wedge is a terrifying-looking snow-plough?


A in my opinion rather crude aerodynamic body kit.


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## Rodalvesdepaula (Apr 14, 2008)

Sopomon said:


> I'm guessing that arrow wedge is a terrifying-looking snow-plough?


It is a aerodynamic piece for double-stack trains.


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## M-NL (Sep 18, 2012)

Will that actually have a significant effect, given the usually significant train lengths and the huge gaps (I would guess 2 to 3 yards/meters) between every 2 stacks along the entire train?


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## Fan Railer (Dec 1, 2010)

M-NL said:


> Will that actually have a significant effect, given the usually significant train lengths and the huge gaps (I would guess 2 to 3 yards/meters) between every 2 stacks along the entire train?


Probably not, unless the train is traveling at relatively high speeds (55-70 mph). They do, however make the transition between single stacks and double stacks more aesthetically pleasing XD.


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...500-wagons-from-ge-capital-rail-services.html
> 
> *GATX buys 18 500 wagons from GE Capital Rail Services*
> 24 Mar 2014
> ...


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...pens-central-florida-intermodal-terminal.html
> 
> *CSX opens Central Florida intermodal terminal*
> 11 Apr 2014
> ...


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## Rodalvesdepaula (Apr 14, 2008)

In 1970's, Burlington Northern (now BNSF) considered to electrify some of its lines because the Oil Crisis. The company made a render with a GE E60CF locomotive in Its annual report in 1976:









http://www.railheadvideo.com/rvp/bne60.htm

Why this project wasn't implemented?


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## XAN_ (Jan 13, 2011)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Crude_oil_prices_since_1861.png


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## Innsertnamehere (Jun 8, 2010)

Rodalvesdepaula said:


> In 1970's, Burlington Northern (now BNSF) considered to electrify some of its lines because the Oil Crisis. The company made a render with a GE E60CF locomotive in Its annual report in 1976:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


because oil became cheap again?


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## Rodalvesdepaula (Apr 14, 2008)

^^Maybe. 

Despite oil crisis, railroads like Milwaukee Road deactivated their old electrification systems. After 1981-1983, oil prices went down and high costs for electrification buried the return of electric freight trains. It was this time that Conrail stopped using electric locomotives on NEC.

Nowadays, It is obvious that is uneconomic to implant eletrification on UP, BNSF, Soo line and CSX lines. I see viability for the use of electric locomotives on freight trains only in Pittsburgh line of Norfolk Southern from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh.


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## XAN_ (Jan 13, 2011)

Rodalvesdepaula said:


> Despite oil crisis, railroads like Milwaukee Road deactivated their old electrification systems. After 1981-1983, oil prices went down and high costs for electrification buried the return of electric freight trains. It was this time that Conrail stopped using electric locomotives on NEC.


AFAIK, by the closure of Milwaukee Electrification electric traction was twice as cheap as diesel, but by that point to much funds was already invested in diesel traction and infrastructure for it.


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## Rodalvesdepaula (Apr 14, 2008)

I believe that Milkaukee Road deactivated Its electrification because obsolescence of the system and Its financial crisis that inhibited total modernization of locomotives, substations and infrastructure.


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...ew/mpes-announces-natural-gas-locomotive.html
> 
> *MP&ES announces natural gas locomotive*
> 24 Apr 2014
> ...


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## bagus70 (Dec 8, 2011)

Rodalvesdepaula said:


> Why this project wasn't implemented?


Aside of decreased oil price, the introduction of fuel efficient diesel locos, and hybrid locos, makes an all electric system not very attractive.

Electric locomotive may not dependent on fossil fuel, but they have several disadvantages over diesel locos:
- higher track maintenance cost (catenary wires and poles)
- prone to blackout
- more vulnerable to sabotage
- less practical and more dependent when compared to diesel


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## M-NL (Sep 18, 2012)

Electric locomotives have several advantages over diesels:

Lower maintenance costs (far outweighs higher track maintenance)
Far less energy costs
Much more powerfull (you can move faster)
Sabotage usually takes places on the train protection system and the switches. That will hit diesel or electric equally
Blackouts are very unusual in Europe. You can always create your own power grid if the national grid isn't reliable enough
You will probably never get an ell electric railroad, but for those places you don't have overhead wire ('the last mile') you can use some small diesels

The biggest disadvantage is the start up cost of building the overhead wires. Large distances a problem? In the former Soviet Union they electrified trans-Siberia railroad. Earth quake prone country? So is Japan and they have all major railroads electrified.


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## Jay (Oct 7, 2004)

Only 1500 horsepower? 

Don't most locomotives have like 4-8000 hp? 

Why so low?


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## Gros Matou (Feb 9, 2014)

Jay said:


> Only 1500 horsepower?
> 
> Don't most locomotives have like 4-8000 hp?
> 
> Why so low?


These are switching locomotives for use at low speed in rail yards. Using high horsepower locomotives for switching all day long is counter productive and a waste of fuel.


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## Stainless (Jun 7, 2009)

M-NL said:


> The biggest disadvantage is the start up cost of building the overhead wires. Large distances a problem? In the former Soviet Union they electrified trans-Siberia railroad. Earth quake prone country? So is Japan and they have all major railroads electrified.


Electrifying the trans-Siberian can't have been cheap though, it is so busy and vitally important enough to justify the expense.


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## bagus70 (Dec 8, 2011)

M-NL said:


> Large distances a problem? In the former Soviet Union they electrified trans-Siberia railroad.


Well, the electrification program in Soviet was funded by taxpayers money. Because it was owned by government. Not to mention Soviet wasn't a financial-conscious nation (and neither does its successor: Russia).

While most of the long distance mainlines in US are privately owned, and they have to pay tax to government.


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## XAN_ (Jan 13, 2011)

But Europe also electrified very long routes... You can get from Lisbon to Brest under electrical traction, and that roughly 4000 km.
Also, Soviet planing school have some strong sides, even if they were outweighed by some bad decisions and critical underdevelopment of IT.


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## Rodalvesdepaula (Apr 14, 2008)

Gros Matou said:


> These are switching locomotives for use at low speed in rail yards. Using high horsepower locomotives for switching all day long is counter productive and a waste of fuel.


And a CNG locomotive to mainline operation isn't reliable because It is needed a infrastruture to refuel these machines in remote places like Arizona, Montana and South Dakota.


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## M-NL (Sep 18, 2012)

A CNG locomotive actually is usually a diesel that runs on mixture anywhere between 100% diesel and 95% CNG/5% diesel. Aside from huge capacity of the CNG, the loco can run on diesel just fine. If you can plan for locomotives not to run out of diesel, you can do the same for CNG.


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## KingNick (Sep 23, 2010)

bagus70 said:


> Well, the electrification program in Soviet was funded by taxpayers money. Because it was owned by government. Not to mention Soviet wasn't a financial-conscious nation (and neither does its successor: Russia).
> 
> While most of the long distance mainlines in US are privately owned, and they have to pay tax to government.


Russia has a GDP/debt ratio of 6 %...


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## M-NL (Sep 18, 2012)

A train carrying crude oil has derailed and caught fire in Lynchburg, Virginia.
Is it just me, extended media attention or are there really a lot of derailed freight train across North America lately? If all these accidents would have occured in Europe I have no doubt all flammable liquid freight traffic would have been halted until a safe solution was found.


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...ew/direct-service-from-chicago-to-mexico.html
> 
> *Direct service from Chicago to Mexico*
> 21 May 2014
> ...


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...-takes-over-former-dme-lines.html?channel=542
> 
> *Genesee & Wyoming takes over former DM&E lines*
> Tuesday, June 03, 2014
> ...


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## XAN_ (Jan 13, 2011)

This is... This is beautiful, in some mesmerizingly sick way:









Credit: Kyle Massick

Source: http://www.king5.com/news/aerospace/Train-derails-with-aircraft-parts-265866171.html



> SUPERIOR, MT -- A Montana Rail Link train derailed near Superior Thursday, sending Boeing aircraft fuselages into a river.
> 
> Nineteen cars on the westbound train derailed. Three of the cars contained aircraft parts and ended up in the Clark Fork River. Boeing said the train was headed from Spirit Aerosystems in Wichita to the Boeing final assembly plant in Renton.
> 
> ...


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## ferrobico (Jan 24, 2013)

XAN_ said:


> This is... This is beautiful, in some mesmerizingly sick way
> 
> 
> 
> It`s normal in freight in America.


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## lkstrknb (Jan 14, 2009)

That's an expensive accident! I wonder if they will save any of the fuselages?


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## sweet-d (Jul 20, 2010)

That looks so cool but it doesn't even look real even though I know it is.


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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)

Some Random Freight train photos from my Flickr contacts


Surprise K634 by imartin92, on Flickr


Train 611 by Corey Templeton, on Flickr


BNSF at Seattle, WA by Mike Roqué, on Flickr


About Time... by imartin92, on Flickr


Late-Running Freight by imartin92, on Flickr


K637 North by imartin92, on Flickr


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## K_ (Jan 5, 2010)

XAN_ said:


> This is... This is beautiful, in some mesmerizingly sick way:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This makes me wonder. I though an aircraft fuselage would be outside the loading gauge of even US railways. Is the MRL a special case? Has their line had the loading gauge adapted for this kind of transport?


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## rakcancer (Sep 2, 2010)

CSX under Bear Mountain bridge upstate New York:


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## XAN_ (Jan 13, 2011)

How do boats get from one part of this water body to another?


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## rakcancer (Sep 2, 2010)

They don't get there. There is nothing over there.:


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...lected-to-revive-central-washington-line.html
> 
> *ARG Transportation selected to revive central Washington line*
> 01 Sep 2014
> ...


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## desertpunk (Oct 12, 2009)

*Tilford Yard Atlanta*


Railroad Town by Jordan Hood, on Flickr


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## rakcancer (Sep 2, 2010)

Couple of pics from trip to northern Montana:


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## hammersklavier (Jan 29, 2010)

Nexis said:


> Well the Class 70s were designed with input from train operators...
> 
> This Train Guide Rail Sim video explains everything there is to know about them..


I think you meant _train drivers_ 

I meant it just looks kind of odd. Like, the front has a bit of styling on it, just enough to clash magnificently with its industrial road hood.


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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)

hammersklavier said:


> I think you meant _train drivers_
> 
> I meant it just looks kind of odd. Like, the front has a bit of styling on it, just enough to clash magnificently with its industrial road hood.


Its a funky locomotive , indeed a more Industrial design compared with most locomotives over there.


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)

*Betting on the rails*
Buffett buys BNSF as Congress considers reform legislation


----------



## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)

Why mid-century diesel locomotives look more streamlined than their later counterparts?


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## hammersklavier (Jan 29, 2010)

mrsmartman said:


> Why mid-century diesel locomotives look more streamlined than their later counterparts?


The earliest diesels were designed to operate passenger, not freight, trains. For example, the B&O ordered one of the very first diesels, EMD's EA, to operate its principal name trains -- in part because (unlike its competitors) the railroad didn't have the resources to actually acquire new lightweight streamline equipment and instead simply rebuilt heavyweight equipment to look like it, therefore needing more powerful engines.










What seems to have happened is that early diesel road units were generally built on the E's successful model. EMD soon offered a four-axle variant, the FT; its major competitor, Alco, offered the lookalike PA-1 (six axles) and FA-1 (four-axles); and up to the early 1950s most mainline road diesels were produced from these designs.

What changed was when Alco had runaway success with the RS-1:










This design is called a _road switcher_. Early American switcher models were designed for yard work: they had low gearings and were designed to maximize visibility. The road switchers were built to have higher, road-speed gearings and added a comfort and safety hood on one side of the cab (it usually has a toilet inside). Essentially, it could do it all.

After a blunder or two, EMD rolled out its first successful road switcher model, the GP-7, about a decade after Alco had begun constructing its RS series. 










Between EMD's aggressive marketing and the fact that its component parts are largely interchangeable with its E and F models (one could say the same about Alco's, but there were many many more E's and F's than PA's and FA's), the GP series soon became dominant in lighter branchline duty.

However, cab units would remain prevalent in mainline operations through midcentury. I would venture to suggest this is because late, heavy steam locomotives still moved bulk cargo while early diesels were largely assigned to priority freights; while six-axle road switcher power* was in existence from the start, its early purpose was to distribute the unit's weight over more axles for lighter-track branch lines.

Heavy, high-horsepower six-axle power did not catch on till the mid-60s, when EMD introduced the SD45:










This is the model that can be considered the "true ancestor" of modern American mainline power. 
___________
* Check out that excellent example of a compound noun, by the way. This is English's version of the cargo-train compounds found in most Germanic languages.


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)

^^ Thanks for your explanation. In general, cab units are for passenger trains while road switchers are for freight.

By the way, using compound nouns can avoid the use of a lot of prepositions.


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## hammersklavier (Jan 29, 2010)

mrsmartman said:


> ^^ Thanks for your explanation. In general, cab units are for passenger trains while road switchers are for freight.


Kind of. It's probably better to say that cab units grew out of early streamline passenger designs that got modified for fast (i.e. mainline) freight, while road switchers grew out of a need for light, rugged, all-purpose (passenger and freight) branchline locomotives. By the early 1950s, Alco RS's composed the entire stable of some smaller railroads, such as the Rutland.

It's not for nothing that GP stands for "General Purpose" and SD "Special Duty": the SD's were supposed to be variants on the standard GP line!


> By the way, using compound nouns can avoid the use of a lot of prepositions.


Don't tell that to the Latin-loving grammar police! :lol:


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)

Union Pacific Corporation (NYSE:UNP) is one of America’s leading transportation companies. Its principal operating company, Union Pacific Railroad, is North America’s premier railroad franchise, covering 23 states across the western two-thirds of the United States. Union Pacific Railroad has one of the most diversified commodity mixes in the industry, including chemicals, coal, consumer products, food and food products, forest products, grain and grain products, government, intermodal, metals, minerals, waste, and automobiles and parts. The Marketing and Sales group is organized into six major commodity groups, with finance and operational expertise within each group, in order to serve the specialized needs of each customer.

The men and women of Union Pacific are dedicated to serve. Our mission is focused on working for the good of the customers, shareholders, and one another and our commitment defines us and drives the economic strength of our company and our country. Performance is highly important to our company and our concentration and determination will drive our safety, customer satisfaction and quality results. Our reputation will always be a source of pride for our employees and a bond with our customers, shareholders, and community partners. We are all part of the same team, and working together to reach our common goals is one of our strengths. Communication and respect are the foundation of great teamwork.


----------



## hammersklavier (Jan 29, 2010)

mrsmartman said:


> Union Pacific Corporation (NYSE:UNP) is one of America’s leading transportation companies. *Its principal operating company, Union Pacific Railroad, is North America’s premier railroad franchise,* covering 23 states across the western two-thirds of the United States. Union Pacific Railroad has one of the most diversified commodity mixes in the industry, including chemicals, coal, consumer products, food and food products, forest products, grain and grain products, government, intermodal, metals, minerals, waste, and automobiles and parts. The Marketing and Sales group is organized into six major commodity groups, with finance and operational expertise within each group, in order to serve the specialized needs of each customer.
> 
> The men and women of Union Pacific are dedicated to serve. Our mission is focused on working for the good of the customers, shareholders, and one another and our commitment defines us and drives the economic strength of our company and our country. Performance is highly important to our company and our concentration and determination will drive our safety, customer satisfaction and quality results. Our reputation will always be a source of pride for our employees and a bond with our customers, shareholders, and community partners. We are all part of the same team, and working together to reach our common goals is one of our strengths. Communication and respect are the foundation of great teamwork.


There's something very British-sounding about this turn of phrase ...

Calling the Union Pacific Railroad an _operating company_? A _franchise_? Those are terms that sound at home when talking about UK railroading ...

(Also, incidentally, if my intuition is right and the BNSF is run by former Santa Fe guys, then they're probably the premier railroad in the US nowadays.)


----------



## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

Rail -- Rail Trench at Port of Vancouver by Washington State Dept of Transportation, on Flickr


----------



## OakRidge (Mar 9, 2007)

Dee Pee Yous by Max Wipperman, on Flickr
UP 7192+7309 Castle Gate by Davy Beumer, on Flickr
Crescent, Colorado by Jason Cary, on Flickr
Solitude west of Floy by Mike Danneman, on Flickr


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## Rodalvesdepaula (Apr 14, 2008)

hammersklavier said:


> The earliest diesels were designed to operate passenger, not freight, trains. For example, the B&O ordered one of the very first diesels, EMD's EA, to operate its principal name trains -- in part because (unlike its competitors) the railroad didn't have the resources to actually acquire new lightweight streamline equipment and instead simply rebuilt heavyweight equipment to look like it, therefore needing more powerful engines.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


By the way...

In 1967, ATSF (Santa Fe) purchased from EMD a special "streamliner" version of EMD SD45 called _FP45_, because the railroad didn't want its _Super Chief_ passenger train pulled by a freight-style locomotive. 











After Amtrak take almost all passenger trains in America, ATSF transferred all its FP45 for "high-speed" freight service _Super C_. Milwaukee Road also purchased five FP45 for passenger services.


----------



## OakRidge (Mar 9, 2007)

The Classic Lineup Recreated: SP E9 #6051, UP E9 #951, And ATSF F7A #347C At The 50th Anniversary Of LAUPT by emd, on Flickr


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## OakRidge (Mar 9, 2007)

Something a little different:
Terryville Redemption by chessiecat1997, on Flickr


> Pan Am Railways is headquartered in Iron Horse Park in North Billerica, Massachusetts. It is a subsidiary of Portsmouth, New Hampshire-based Pan Am Systems, formerly known as Guilford Transportation Industries (GTI). Guilford bought the name, colors and logo of Pan American World Airways in 1998.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Railways


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)

*Florida East Coast Railroad (FEC)*










FEC 813 brings up the tail of 7 new FEC GEVO's in tow (810, 807, 811, 802, 801, 800 & 813) behind the road power of Q357-25 at Boughtonville, OH on their way to Willard where another train will forward them south to their new home in Florida.


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## Rodalvesdepaula (Apr 14, 2008)

OakRidge said:


> Something a little different:
> Terryville Redemption by chessiecat1997, on Flickr


Pan Am Railways has an old locomotive fleet. 

Other Class II railroads have a more modern locomotive fleet. An example is one of my favorite American railroads: Iowa Interstate. It has 17 giant GE ES44AC.










The only stretch of Iowa Interstate is a former Rock Island track between Bureau, IL and Omaha, NE.


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## hammersklavier (Jan 29, 2010)

Rodalvesdepaula said:


> By the way...
> 
> In 1967, ATSF (Santa Fe) purchased from EMD a special "streamliner" version of EMD SD45 called _FP45_, because the railroad didn't want its _Super Chief_ passenger train pulled by a freight-style locomotive.
> 
> After Amtrak take almost all passenger trains in America, ATSF transferred all its FP45 for "high-speed" freight service _Super C_. Milwaukee Road also purchased five FP45 for passenger services.


That would be what is called an "asterisk". 


Rodalvesdepaula said:


> Pan Am Railways has an old locomotive fleet.
> 
> Other Class II railroads have a more modern locomotive fleet. An example is one of my favorite American railroads: Iowa Interstate. It has 17 giant GE ES44AC.
> 
> The only stretch of Iowa Interstate is a former Rock Island track between Bureau, IL and Omaha, NE.


Well keep in mind that railroad length and terrain the lines go through, as well as the type of freight being moved (as well as the railroad's finances) can greatly change optimal line equipment.

Florida East Coast runs intermodal traffic along a very straight, direct route. Iowa Interstate runs ... I'm not entirely sure _what_ ... but it's also over a very straight, direct route. Both are conditions optimized for the running of Class I-like services.

By contrast, the Class II's in the Northeast and New England rarely run straight direct routes. Instead, the mainlines are relatively short, significantly older and curvier, and branch heavily -- all conditions favoring four-axle power over six-axle power.

Pan Am Railways' system map (linked because the image is farking huge)

But the catch is that the last major four-axle freight unit EMD offered was the GP60 (and AFAIK there are no four-axle GE Evolution Series models; the Providence & Worcester has several Dash 8-40B's and BW's which might actually be the last four-axle freight model GE offered), which means that railroads where conditions favor four-axle power generally have to make do essentially replacing prime movers on frames and bodyshells that date from 20 to 40 years ago.


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## Rodalvesdepaula (Apr 14, 2008)

^^Hum, It's true. Railroad tracks in New England are very old and they haven't capacity and clearance to receive big locomotives such as EMD SD70 and GE GEVO. 

Iowa Traction Railway is still operating its very old Interurban-syle electric locomotives?









http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/Iowa_-_Electric_Traction_in_Iowa


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## zaphod (Dec 8, 2005)

*UNITED STATES | Freight*

Will brookville or mpi make 4 axle road units in the future, perhaps around a genset design?

If not them maybe we'll see us variants of those Australia/Africa export units GE and EMD make?

I know the port of Houston has caterpillar made locos too


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## hammersklavier (Jan 29, 2010)

zaphod said:


> Will brookville or mpi make 4 axle road units in the future, perhaps around a genset design?
> 
> If not them maybe we'll see us variants of those Australia/Africa export units GE and EMD make?
> 
> I know the port of Houston has caterpillar made locos too


Good question!

One of the reasons new four-axle power isn't being pursued is because there are still _so many_ GP38s and GP40s around. Indeed, very few SD40s* relative to the original fleet have ever been retired -- they continue to form the backbone of many Class II fleets (such as the Wheeling & Lake Erie) and secondary services even on the Class I's. A clear industrial design triumph if ever there was one! These units were manufactured by the same company at the same time time as the _original_ Chevrolet Camarro.

But this also means that they are, on average, 40-45 years old. First-generation diesels (particularly Alcos) largely began being pushed out of service and into retirement in the 90s and early 2000s when they were (on average) some fifty years old. Their sheer age augurs increased failure rates which in turn augurs fleet cannibalization.** GP- and SD50s were not as well designed and are largely out of service and there are few four-axle units dating after ca. 1985 which would seem to imply that Class II's reliant on four-axle power, like Pan Am (where GP40s make up some 60% of the road's fleet and 40s in general 80%!) will start needing to look for replacements in the not-too-distant future.

I'd also like to point out that EMD's Class 66 (which uses the same 710 prime mover as the SD70 series) and GE's PowerHaul (which uses a different prime mover than the Evolution Series') -- are both "light" six-axle units. It'll be interesting to see whether anybody's going to offer brand-new four-axle power instead of aftermarket conversion kits (e.g. the GP22ECO, which is a GP40 refitted with a 710 prime mover***).
_______________
* Another interesting asterisk: The SD40, which is of the same vintage as the SD45, is quite literally a GP40 engine and body on an SD45 frame, perhaps the ultimate expression of early road switchers using three-axle trucks for better load distribution; the SD45 series was meant to be the mainline diesel. Even so, the SD40 massively outsold the SD45 and became the standard mainline diesel into the '80s, when the short-lived SD50 and longer-lived SD60 and SD70 series (and especially GE's Dashes and AC series) replaced them. 

** Although EMD is apparently _still_ producing parts for these things.

*** Part of this is that the conversion takes a surprising horsepower hit. GP40's develop 3,000 horses (2.24 MW) while GP22ECO's develop 2,150 horses (1.60 MW), a 30% power hit and one that makes the GP22ECO's more like a first generation unit under the hood than a second-generation one.


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## M-NL (Sep 18, 2012)

hammersklavier said:


> I'd also like to point out that EMD's Class 66 (which uses the same 710 prime mover as the SD70 series) and GE's PowerHaul (which uses a different prime mover than the Evolution Series') -- are both "light" six-axle units.


Any European locomotive is 'light' compared to it's North American counterpart, because of it's axle load limitation somewhere in the 20t to 22.5t per axle range today, even down to 17t per axle in the past (like the Deltic). As far as I know there is just one line in Europe having a higher then 22.5t axle load, the Malmbanan in the north of Sweden and Norway. They don't use diesel but electric traction by Bombardier there. North American locos are known to exceed 33t per axle.


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## zaphod (Dec 8, 2005)

I guess another way of looking at this is to ask what the typical class II or III railroad is actually hauling these days and what they plan on doing long-term with their increasingly ancient infrastructure. That would probably inform how they would want to invest in new power. Or rather more likely what a locomotive leasing company might invest in.

Shortlines by their nature do tend to serve classic line side industries and warehouses as well as local team track sidings. On the other hand I can think of many smaller US railroads that exist to haul heavy bulk unit trains and basically everything else the big boys carry except maybe intermodal and autoracks. And I've noticed public money subsidizing improvements to old local railroads. See the rebuilding of the old Northwestern Pacific in California. When it comes to the latter heavy haul, improved regional railroads I wonder if a point would come where they would utilize basically the same equipment as the class I's. 

While the older rickety branch line regional railroads would decay to nothing. I never read anything good about the state of railroads in, say, Maine. Every year another paper mill up there closes and another segment of Pan Am/Guilford/Whatever shuts down for good as well. Of course we are talking about a negligible part of the overall very robust North American network here, but just saying.

So...where are the highway worthy trackmobiles? Seems like an obvious idea for industrial switching or even short to medium length branches where there is only one source of very infrequent traffic like you might find in New England. They'd drive around and do industrial switching jobs, leaving a bigger locomotive to simply collect the cars and continue down the line. Perhaps the need for the road switcher could go away? 

Also who knows if in the future bulk containers will be more of a thing, with hydraulic dumpers and the works. What they lack in capacity compared to a ACFX hopper or something like that they gain in being portable. With google making robot cars, well surely there will be robot trucks. Robot trucks that can sort of transform into a train like the road railers of the recent past. Remove the cost of transloading, give local rail a new shot in the arm. Trains will always have the advantage of running on steel rails with a tenth the friction of the most advanced tire that can be made and can weight a whole lot, now you have true intermodal working together.


----------



## hammersklavier (Jan 29, 2010)

M-NL said:


> Any European locomotive is 'light' compared to it's North American counterpart, because of it's axle load limitation somewhere in the 20t to 22.5t per axle range today, even down to 17t per axle in the past (like the Deltic). As far as I know there is just one line in Europe having a higher then 22.5t axle load, the Malmbanan in the north of Sweden and Norway. They don't use diesel but electric traction by Bombardier there. North American locos are known to exceed 33t per axle.


Axle Loads for Some Common First- and Second-Generation Road Switchers (in metric tons):

1. Alco RS-1: 112.3 t/ 4 axles = 28.08 t/axle
2. Alco RS-3: 112.1 t/ 4 axles = 28.03 t/axle
3. Alco RSC-3: 115.6 t/ 6 axles = 19.27 t/axle
4. Alco RSD-15: 152.0 t/ 6 axles = 25.33 t/axle
5. EMD GP7: 111.6 t/4 axles = 27.90 t/axle
6. EMD SD7: 140.2 t/ 6 axles = 23.37 t/axle
7. EMD GP38-2: 113.4 t/ 4 axles = 28.35 t/axle
8. EMD GP40-2: 113.4 t/ 4 axles = 28.35 t/axle
9. EMD SD40-2: 116.9 t/ 6 axles = 27.82 t/axle
10. EMD SD45: 116.9 t/ 6 axles = 27.82 t/axle

Average axle load: 26.43 t/axle

While I'll grant that power since the 1990s has become exceptionally heavy (for example, the AC4400CW's axle load is 32.2 t, significantly heavier than its SD40-2 and SD45 predecessors), and that the observable trend in North American diesels is clearly towards higher axle loads, the fact of the matter is that the units being used on the railroads in question (e.g. Pan Am, Providence & Worcester, Buffalo & Pittsburgh, Reading & Northern, and countless other Class II's and shortlines that don't run trunk services) are significantly lighter than the ones the Class I's use on their trunk lines.

BTW for comparison, the Class 66 achieves an axle load of 21.15 t and the PowerHaul approximately (there's a wide weight variation) 21.5 t, which is indeed much lighter than what's being built in America today but is actually in the same axle load range as first-generation (RSC-3, SD7) six-axle road switchers as has been shown.


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)

*Gas Turbine #61*


----------



## Tronador (May 20, 2010)

zaphod said:


> *Cool! Is that the last "normal" electric freight operation in the US?* There are dedicated coal lines in Arizona and Texas with catenary and electric locomotives but they are shortand only marginally connected to the rest of the national network so I usually don't keep them in mind. Plus they are almost impossible to photograph since they are on restricted private property so you don't normally see train nerd stuff about them.
> 
> Iowa is an interesting state in some respects despite seeming pretty lame, IMO. There's little obscure things like this off the back roads worth checking out if you are into that kind of road trip traveling.


Excuse me
These locomotives do not work anymore.
What did happen with these electric freight lines?
Have been closed? or now only runs with diesel trains?









Origin of the photo: Railpictures


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## zaphod (Dec 8, 2005)

I believe that is the Northeast Corridor.

It doesn't have electric freight anymore, but I don't know why.

Actually to me the fact that it has freight at all is kind of a problem, that is one factor why Amtrak can't easily make the line true high speed rail.


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## hammersklavier (Jan 29, 2010)

That's the Northeast Corridor.

Those units were E44s, probably the last mainline freight unit built in the United States.

Conrail abandoned its electric freight operations in the early 1980s. The main reason is that its traffic patterns had shifted from the Amtrak-owned passenger-intensive route. Trains from Chicago to New York utilize a different mainline via Reading and the Lehigh Valley, today Norfolk Southern's Harrisburg Line.

Most freight service on the NEC today is terminal freight -- that is, it uses the NEC as a "last mile" between its own tracks and its destination.


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## Rodalvesdepaula (Apr 14, 2008)

Almost all traffic in NEC is formed by Amtrak and commuter trains. Freight trains are rare in NEC, only to access some yards and branches.


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## Rodalvesdepaula (Apr 14, 2008)

EMD GP30, one of best diesel-electric locomotives ever built in the America, with an unique style. 

GM Automotive Styling Center helped EMD to design this locomotive. 











High Short Hood version for Southern Railway and Norfolk & Western. These two railroads purchased only high short hood locomotives for safety reasons.


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## Ginkgo (Feb 12, 2007)

Ginkgo said:


> Interestingly UPS was founded in a basement in Seattle's Pioneer Square. I think I have a picture somewhere of the garden the Casey Foundation built on the site.


Was in Pioneer Square today and took pictures of the garden which the Casey Foundation funded to honor the site on which UPS was founded (1907). A pleasant oasis amidst a teeming neighborhood


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)

*BNSF 7520 GE ES44DC in Mojave Desert*










http://www.cnbc.com/2015/05/02/ett-is-my-boss-and-its-a-happy-marriage-bnsfs-rose.html

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/02/28/berk...-net-worth-but-bnsf-a-drag-annual-letter.html


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## TedStriker (May 18, 2009)

^^

What a great photo!


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)

*TRAIN – PENNSYLVANIA DIESEL ENGINE AND FREIGHT TRAIN – c1960 | CHUCKMAN'S PHOTOS ON WORDPRESS: CHICAGO NOSTALGIA AND MEMORABILIA*


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## Rodalvesdepaula (Apr 14, 2008)

^^EMD F7A.


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## Rodalvesdepaula (Apr 14, 2008)

BEEP, a Baldwin diesel-electric switcher locomotive with an EMD 567 diesel engine and EMD GP7 long hood. 


















http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/what-would-you-call-it-its-not-a-beep

This locomotive was built by Baldwin in 1943 during war effort to ATSF. In December 1970, ATSF rebuilt the locomotive with a new EMD 567 engine and a new long hood at same style of EMD GP7. Original Baldwin control cab wasn't modified. Because these modifications, the locomotive was nicknamed BEEP. 


Nowadays, BEEP is in Western America Railroad Museum in Barstow, CA.


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## OakRidge (Mar 9, 2007)

Resting in the roundhouse by Mike Danneman, on Flickr


> Inside the Cheyenne, Wyoming, roundhouse on March 25, 2013, Union Pacific’s two E9As wait for another season of pulling passenger trains. Both were built in 1955, and in the early ’90s, UP sent them to VMV Enterprises in Paducah, Kentucky, to be remanufactured. They emerged in 1993 with a new 16-cylinder 2,000-hp EMD 645 engine (replacing original twin 12-cylinder 1,200-hp 567 engines), with AR10 alternators and GP38-2 design electrical systems.


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)

*Union Pacific Ore Train from Moab*










Union Pacific Ore Train from Moab, Utah. Two locomotives in front, two on the back. Just out of the Moab fault pass.


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)

*Time to Hop Back Aboard CSX*










Flat revenue has forced CSX to lower costs, improve service, and develop new initiatives. As coal prices stabilize, its shares are poised to barrel ahead. _Mike Groll/AP Photo_


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## lunarwhite (Jun 18, 2014)

mrsmartman said:


> *TRAIN – PENNSYLVANIA DIESEL ENGINE AND FREIGHT TRAIN – c1960 | CHUCKMAN'S PHOTOS ON WORDPRESS: CHICAGO NOSTALGIA AND MEMORABILIA*


Actually, it is two E-7s on a mail train. The boxcar is actually an express car with high speed trucks and steam and air signal lines for use with other baggage and passenger cars. There would be 1 or 2 coaches in the train for passenger use.


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)

*The Norfolk Southern Railway*


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## bagus70 (Dec 8, 2011)

EMD eventually built a 4-stroke locomotive. Designated EMD SD70ACe-T4, this loco is powered by EMD 1010 engine, a development of EMD 265


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## zaphod (Dec 8, 2005)

Good, now they can re-enter the market with something that meets emissions requirements.


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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)




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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)

*Canadian Pacific Holiday Train 2015*


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)




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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)

Interesting Freight Train Branch in Clearwater,FL...i'm not sure Id feel comfortable using that bike lane when a train was rolling through..


East Avenue, Clearwater, FL by BeyondDC, on Flickr


East Avenue, Clearwater, FL by BeyondDC, on Flickr


East Avenue, Clearwater, FL by BeyondDC, on Flickr


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## zaphod (Dec 8, 2005)

Neat. Surprised its even operating still.


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)

*Postcard photo of a Pennsylvania Railroad freight train led by an EMD F7 at Horseshoe Curve in Pennsylvania.*










https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pennsylvania_Railroad_freight_at_Horseshoe_Curve.jpg


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)

*UP Local with UPY 2104 & 2109 at Tower 210 - Houston, TX*



()_T said:


> *Houston*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)

*Union Pacific Steam Shop Update 2015*


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)

http://oxidedesign.com/union-pacific-intermodal-video/


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)

http://www.bnsf.com/customers/where-can-i-ship/overseas/


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## M-NL (Sep 18, 2012)

> ... within 200 miles of a BNSF intermodal facility...


This makes me smile, when you consider that for instance in the Netherlands you can't drive for more than about 180 miles in any cardinal direction before leaving the country.


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)

*"Pride of the Omaha Shops."*






https://www.up.com/aboutup/special_trains/mini-train/index.htm


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## bagus70 (Dec 8, 2011)

Does anyone know the progress of SD70ACe-T4 testing?


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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)

Video taken by PabloM201

*MTA LIRR - EMD MP15AC #167 & #157 Pulling the Ringling Bros Circus Train through Queens Village [MV] *








> MTA Long Island Rail Road General Motors Electro-Motive Division MP15AC #167 & #157 Pulling the Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey's Circus Train through Queens Village station.
> 
> This was recorded with an LG V10.


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## Fan Railer (Dec 1, 2010)

Fullerton Freight Galore:


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## foxmulder (Dec 1, 2007)

bagus70 said:


> EMD eventually built a 4-stroke locomotive. Designated EMD SD70ACe-T4, this loco is powered by EMD 1010 engine, a development of EMD 265


That is just a nice looking machine!...


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## Fan Railer (Dec 1, 2010)




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## Fan Railer (Dec 1, 2010)

GE Tier IV Demo:


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## M-NL (Sep 18, 2012)

Unfortunately all these diesels do is convert the dynamic braking power into heat.
Why not transfer the generated energy to an overhead wire? This power can then be used to either feed back into the grid or to power another train elsewhere. Common practice on pretty much all electrified lines across the world.

And I'm not saying you need to electrify everything. Just start at the places where you need to accelerate or decelerate trains and build from there and switch from electric to diesel mode and vice versa on the fly. A modern AC diesel electric locomotive already has 90% of the equipment needed for electric running. A 200t 6-axle freight version of the ALP45DP could be equal to a EH44AC or a SD70ACe-T4 in diesel mode and easily outperform it in electric mode (with the MTAB Iore in mind).


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)

Dynamic braking reduces the wear and tear of conventional braking system.


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)

NS 583 rolls thru the yard at Radebaugh with a pair of standard cab SD70's for power.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=86119&nseq=108

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from Pennsylvania*


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## bagus70 (Dec 8, 2011)

Any news on SD70ACe-T4 project?


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## IanCleverly (Nov 24, 2010)

I take it that area doesn't get much commuter traffic?


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## OakRidge (Mar 9, 2007)

Union Pacific GE's at South Elgin IL by Mark LLanuza, on Flickr


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## OakRidge (Mar 9, 2007)

IanCleverly said:


> I take it that area doesn't get much commuter traffic?


Here is the bridge on Google Maps: https://www.google.com/maps/place/3...1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d33.968758!4d-117.436355?hl=en


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## hammersklavier (Jan 29, 2010)

As American as American freight railroading gets:






Also I <3 that laker boat at the end.


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## hammersklavier (Jan 29, 2010)




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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...reement-to-revive-mexico-usa-desert-line.html
> 
> *Agreement to revive Mexico – USA Desert Line*
> 13 Jun 2016
> ...


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## APieceOfToast (Jun 13, 2016)

bagus70 said:


> Any news on SD70ACe-T4 project?


My best understanding is that they are still being tested out in the rockies on the Union pacific. I expect it will be a few months yet before they make their debut on most major class ones.


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...acquire-providence-worcester.html?channel=535
> 
> *Genesee & Wyoming to acquire Providence & Worcester*
> Tuesday, August 16, 2016
> ...


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## TedStriker (May 18, 2009)

Union Pacific starts express Food Trains in Northwest, California


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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)

CSX Point no Point Bridge over the Passaic River


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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)

New Haven #130 at the Croton Yard


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)

*Union Pacific board approves $3.1 billion 2017 capital program*



RT&S said:


> *The Board of Directors of Union Pacific approved its $3.1 billion capital program for 2017.*
> 
> The program is down approximately 11 percent, $400 million, from the Class 1's 2016 capital plan of $3.5 billion.
> 
> ...











_OregonDOT_

Source: http://www.rtands.com/index.php/fre...approves-31-billion-2017-capital-program.html


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)




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## M-NL (Sep 18, 2012)

Trains don't just derail out of the blue. It may not be true, but I got this feeling that derailments on main lines are a very regular occurance in NA.

Tracks seem to be maintained to an as low as possible standard, whereas in Europe pretty much all the main line tracks in Europe are maintained to passenger standards, making derailments by track failures very rare.

Do the management and shareholders of railroads understand that the consequences of one major accident due to poor maintenance can be enough to make them go bankrupt? It doesn't look like it, because otherwise they would all have had working PTC by now as well. Instead maintenance and train control are regarded as a liability.


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## MarcVD (Dec 1, 2008)

Kind of management that happens more and more frequently, anywhere and in any business. High management seem to prefer risk based approaches with artificially low probabilities of occurrences rather than curing the risk at the source.


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## mrsmartman (Mar 16, 2015)

*For CSX, a Delay That Is Finally Good News*

_Postponed hearing offered railroad time to address shipper complaints about delays and congestion_



The Wall Street Journal. said:


> CSX Corp. executives this week will be facing shippers who were criticizing the railroad over the summer for widespread congestion and disruptions as its new chief executive put his operational strategy in place.
> 
> The Surface Transportation Board hearing, scheduled for Wednesday in Washington, D.C., was postponed a month due to Hurricane Irma, and in an unexpected twist, several shippers are now citing signs of a turnaround.
> 
> CSX...


Read more at: https://www.wsj.com/articles/for-csx-a-delay-that-is-finally-good-news-1507377601


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## zaphod (Dec 8, 2005)

Is Metra using a SD70MACH for commuter service?


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## M-NL (Sep 18, 2012)

Why not? But if they are, is the standard 70 MPH top speed fast enough? Or are they changing that?


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## zaphod (Dec 8, 2005)

I just thought it was interesting to see a freight locomotive pull a passenger train. I am not a train expert but I would ask if the acceleration is the same, if the weight or length does different wear and tear on tracks, if it sticks out on platforms, if the onboard power supply and maybe water for toilets is the same, and if it’s a wise investment given the operating costs and maintenance costs are probably different.


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## davide84 (Jun 8, 2008)

In the old days in Italy freight locomotives had a different gear ratio, lower maximum speed and lacked the proper connectors and electronics to be remotely controlled from the other end of the train. However size, coupling and main connectors (brake air and power) were standardized and it was not unusual to see freight engines pulling passenger trains on services where speed was not an issue.

I would say that any modern freight engine would have even less limitations.


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## Coccodrillo (Sep 30, 2005)

Some freight locomotive may not be able to supply electricity and heating to coaches, but today this is not common, at least in Europe. Freight locomotives were used on Switzerland-Italy Eurocity trains until 2014, but although limited to 140 kph/87 mph, this was not a problem as most of the distance covered by these EucroCity was on lineas with speed equal or lower than that. Other locomotives like the Swiss Re 460 are defined as universal, and can be used on both 200 km/h/120 mph passenger trains and freight (alhough nowadays European railways are usually split into mostly independent divisions, each with its own dedicated fleet, so locomotives usually are always used on the same type of train, and not pooled between passenger and freight services).

In the past there used to be dedicated vehicles, equipped with a steam or diesel generator and space for baggages, to allow freight locomotives to be used with passenger trains: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carro_riscaldo

Some Spanish Talgo trainsets still run with a generator van, and are thus independent from the locomotive, I think they are the last such vans in use in Europe. Most trains now either use power supply from the locomotive, or are EMUs/DMUs.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*Rail union approves deal offering hope of avoiding strike *
_Excerpt_
Nov 5, 2022

OMAHA, Neb. (AP) — Another one of the 12 railroad unions narrowly approved its deal with the major freight railroads Saturday, offering some hope that the contract dispute might be resolved without a strike even though two other unions rejected their agreements last month.

Now that 52% of International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers members who voted approved their deal, seven railroad unions have ratified contracts that include 24% raises and $5,000 in bonuses, but all 12 have to approve contracts to prevent a strike.

Concerns remain about the possibility of an economically devastating strike because the Brotherhood of Maintenance of Way Employes Division and Brotherhood of Railroad Signalmen unions voted down their contracts, and many workers say these deals just don’t address their quality-of life concerns. No strike is imminent because those unions agreed to return to the bargaining table to try to work out a new deal, but those talks have been deadlocked over the unions’ demands for paid sick time and there is a Nov. 19 deadline.

More : Rail union approves deal offering hope of avoiding strike


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

* Rail unions decry Biden’s call for Congress to block strike. Businesses praise the plan *
CNN _Excerpt_
Nov 29, 2022

President Joe Biden was in the unusual position Tuesday of being praised by business interests and attacked by his normal allies in the labor movement after calling for Congress to move immediately to block a strike by more than 100,000 union members at the nation’s freight railroads set for the end of next week.

The move was a serious setback for the unions, who say they needed the right to strike in order to get railroad management to negotiate over their major demand to give workers sick days that are not in the current contracts. They say the railroads, many of which reported record profits last year, are enjoying even stronger profits this year and can afford to meet the union’s demands.

Biden said he is sympathetic to the union’s demand, but he said a rail strike would cause too much economic damage and must be avoided.

More : https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/29/business/rail-strike-threat-recedes/index.html


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*EXPLAINER: What to know on Congress’ bid to bar rail strike *
_Excerpt_
Nov 29, 2022

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden is asking Congress to intervene to avert a potentially crippling freight rail strike before Christmas and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is calling a vote this week to do so, even if it means handing a defeat to Democratic allies in the labor movement.

The legislation urged by Biden and being voted on Wednesday by the House would impose a compromise labor agreement brokered by his administration that was ultimately voted down by four of the 12 unions that represent about 115,000 workers at the freight railroads.

A look at Congress’ options to intervene, the potential impact on consumers, and what happens next:

More : EXPLAINER: What to know on Congress' bid to bar rail strike


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

*Congress votes to avert rail strike amid dire warnings *
_Excerpt_
Dec 1, 2022 

WASHINGTON (AP) — Legislation to avert what could have been an economically ruinous freight rail strike won final approval in Congress on Thursday as lawmakers responded quickly to President Joe Biden’s call for federal intervention in a long-running labor dispute.

The Senate passed a bill to bind rail companies and workers to a proposed settlement that was reached between the rail companies and union leaders in September. That settlement had been rejected by four of the 12 unions involved, creating the possibility of a strike beginning Dec. 9.

The Senate vote was 80-15. It came one day after the House voted to impose the agreement. The measure now goes to Biden’s desk for his signature.

More : Congress votes to avert rail strike amid dire warnings


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## robbo2k (Feb 25, 2004)

Upssss


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