# PHOENIX | Public Transport



## richhill (Oct 24, 2007)

*Phoenix Metro Light Rail Construction*

I'm a new member to the forum and I couldn't find any updates or photos of the Phoenix Metro Light Rail project - scheduled to open at the end of next year. 

Here is the official link:
http://www.valleymetro.org/METRO_light_rail/

I will be taking shots of the entire 20 mile line over the next week.

These first shots were taken at the East end of the line in Mesa..


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## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

Nice tram! Any pics of the future vehicles?


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## trainrover (May 6, 2006)

Funny, that these new systems of in-street-running trams get labelled metros nowadays....even more so considering their halts are termed stations....


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## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

^^Let them label it the way they want...it wont provide a service as stable as a real metro(for obvious reasons),and that is what matters. And of course the fact they build it.


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## trainrover (May 6, 2006)

^^ Yeah, well it must be the continent's way of digressing from their stalled languages that hail from the early 1500s....


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## Gil (Mar 11, 2005)

RawLee said:


> ^^Let them label it the way they want...it wont provide a service as stable as a real metro(for obvious reasons),and that is what matters. And of course the fact they build it.


I think "Metro" in this instance (and in most through the US) is short for Metropolitan - as in municipal, not "subway" as in French.  The M in American MTA's (NY, LA, Washington, etc.) stand for Metropolitan Transportation/Transit Authority, meaning they are arm's length authorities/agencies of their respective cities.


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## Tcmetro (Jun 9, 2007)

RawLee said:


> Nice tram! Any pics of the future vehicles?


The vehicles will be the same as the ones Seattle is getting, they are built by Kinkisharyo-Mitsui, and are 90 feet long. I don't know if the Pheonix one will be able to handle 2 car trains, but Seattle's can hold 4. There was another thread a few months back with pics of the vehicle, though.


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## greg_christine (Jan 25, 2004)

There is some information about the vehicles on Kinkisharyo's website:

http://www.kinkisharyo-usa.com/vmr_phoenix.html










Vehicle Design 70% Low-Floor 
Seated Capacity 66 
Peak Commuter Capacity 212 
Speed 55mph 
Carbody LAHT Steel 
Number of Vehicles 50 

There is a lot of information on the system at Valley Metro's website:

http://www.valleymetro.org/METRO_light_rail/Default.asp










Light Rail Operations Begin in December 2008

Peak period frequency: 10 minutes 
Off-peak midday frequency: 20 to 30 minutes 
Operating hours: 18-20 hours/day 
Opening day ridership: 26,000 
2020 ridership: 50,000


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## Tcmetro (Jun 9, 2007)

Those Frequencies are terrible! How do they expect to get 26,000 riders per day like that???


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## richhill (Oct 24, 2007)

*Downtown pix*

Some more pix from Phoenix Light Rail construction. This section is downtown Phoenix between 3rd Street and Van Buren. In this section, the rails run about a block apart - so the E/S bound stations are separate from the W/N stations.

Apart from installation of the catenary wires, everything is finished and waiting for the opening of the system in 14 months.


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## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

^^I wish we would build tramlines like that...


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## taiwanesedrummer36 (Aug 2, 2007)

Thanks for the updates, and welcome!

I absolutely love the new Phoenix light rail system. It's cheap, it's a surface line, it's easy to build, and the stations are simple but architecturally interesting. I wish Seattle's light rail system had all that. I might even go to Phoenix when the line opens (it's next year, right?).


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## koolkid (Apr 17, 2006)

Wow, it looks really good. Yes the frequencies are bad but atleast it's getting built.

It wouldn't hurt for New York to have a trolley/light rail nowadays.


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## geoking66 (Jun 27, 2006)

koolkid said:


> Wow, it looks really good. Yes the frequencies are bad but atleast it's getting built.
> 
> It wouldn't hurt for New York to have a trolley/light rail nowadays.


New York City does NOT need a light rail. First of all, where would you put it? Also, would it be useful, considering that the New York City Subway average 5m riders a day and covers almost all of the city except for Staten Island, and the HBLR will eventually be extended there.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

I recently posted an update in the West Coast section : 
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=16062829&postcount=199

*Studies looking at extensions for light rail *
23 October 2007

PHOENIX (AP) - As construction on the first phase of the light rail project nears an end, engineers are already looking at the future. 

Metro light rail has announced that three public meetings are planned beginning Tuesday. The sessions are intended to look at the feasibility of extending light rail down I-10, the routes and extensions that should be studied for possible extension into central Mesa and the design of a possible northwest Phoenix extension. 

The yearlong study could identify other new transit corridors throughout Maricopa County. 

One extension likely to have the biggest effect on commuters would bring some form of mass transit on the westside running down I-10 for 11 miles inside a 50-foot median that planners reserved when they built the freeway. 

The trains could travel up to 55 mph between stations spaced two miles apart, engineers said. 

Today, about 250,000 automobiles travel the corridor. 

By 2030, engineers believe that number could reach 550,000. 

"We see a significant advantage, from a commuter point of view, to having a transit investment in this corridor," said Wulf Grote, director of project development for Metro. 

Metro will hold meetings Tuesday and Thursday to get public input on the I-10 proposal.


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## jam5 (May 30, 2007)

How close is the nearest stop to Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport? And why isn't there a direct connection to the terminal?


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## taiwanesedrummer36 (Aug 2, 2007)

jam5 said:


> How close is the nearest stop to Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport? And why isn't there a direct connection to the terminal?


The closest station to the Phoenix Sky Harbor Int. Airport is the 44th Street/Washington Station, which will connect to the terminals via some sort of people-mover system.

I'm not sure why they didn't build a direct connection to the airport. Maybe it would have been too costly to build an elevated route that leaves and returns to the main Washington Street route. And maybe it was meant to promote some sort of redevelopment along Washington Street. There are 8 stations along the Washington Street surface route.


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## koolkid (Apr 17, 2006)

geoking66 said:


> New York City does NOT need a light rail. First of all, where would you put it? Also, would it be useful, considering that the New York City Subway average 5m riders a day and covers almost all of the city except for Staten Island, and the HBLR will eventually be extended there.


I'd use it to connect Brooklyn and Queens. Considering how costly it would be to build a subway nowadays, not to mention the years it would take, a light rail wouldn't hurt. Enough about that. THis is, in the end, about PHOENIX.

I'm curious to know what would be the form of pay. I've noticed the stations don't really seem to be designed to have any turn stiles or w/e. I'm guessing people will pay upon boarding the train?...


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## ssiguy2 (Feb 19, 2005)

It's great that Phoneix is building the LRT but those frequencies are just horrid. How is it going to be rapid transit if you have to wait that long for a train? 

Also.............26,000 passengers a day? That is dreadful. Calgary a city of one million CTrain LRT is 40km long but carries a whopping 240,000 a day.


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## taiwanesedrummer36 (Aug 2, 2007)

ssiguy2 said:


> It's great that Phoneix is building the LRT but those frequencies are just horrid. How is it going to be rapid transit if you have to wait that long for a train?
> 
> Also.............26,000 passengers a day? That is dreadful. Calgary a city of one million CTrain LRT is 40km long but carries a whopping 240,000 a day.


With the proposed extensions, i'm sure that number will increase. If I remember Phoenix correctly, the route travels either along mostly commercial and industrial areas, along with major destinations, but very few residential areas (that is, "bustling" residential areas).


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## stevevance (Jul 4, 2007)

Yappofloyd said:


> I am guessing that the $1.4 billion includes the rolling stock as $70 million per mile seems very expensive?
> 
> How is the patronage going now after 6 months operation?


Yes, the $1.4 billion includes rolling stock and station construction. Writing it as $70 million is a simple (but not the best) way to compare this project to other light rail projects.


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## FM 2258 (Jan 24, 2004)

Since the Austin line opened up just last week, I'd like to know how Phoenix's system is doing. I remember seeing the rail lines when I was there back in the summer of 2008, looked really cool.


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## diablo234 (Aug 18, 2008)

Some background history of the line.

Light rail system "Valley Metro Light Rail": 32 km (20 miles), 28 stops; revenue service from 01 Jan 2009

Through Phoenix city centre, between Roosevelt and 24th Street, the light rail line runs along parallel streets, southbound on 1st Avenue and Jefferson Street, and northbound on Washington Street and Central Avenue.


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## diablo234 (Aug 18, 2008)




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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)




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## Dan78 (Nov 17, 2009)

Nice photos. Phoenix is off to a good start. It's a shame that, like most transit systems in the U.S., there's no direct airport terminal connection. At 40K per day, ridership is pretty good for a new, single-line system, but I don't see that Transport Politic map being realized any time soon.

I like the station designs. Remind me a bit of Houston's. Is there any TOD planned?

How well received is the new service in Phoenix? I have to say I hear more anti-rail bellyaching about Phoenix's light rail project (in comment sections of new articles) than about any other major city's rail project in the U.S.

Is Phoenix going to be getting commuter rail any time soon, or Amtrak for that matter (I can only guess McCain has something to do with the fact that a city of 1.5 million--5th largest in the U.S.--has no national rail service).


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

No surprise there since Phoenix is largest car centric suburban city in the US, and Arizona in general is a very conservative state. Phoenix was the largest city in the US without any rail transit whatsoever until they built the light rail, . No tram, no inter-city rail, no suburban rail, no metro etc.


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## diablo234 (Aug 18, 2008)

Dan78 said:


> Nice photos. Phoenix is off to a good start. It's a shame that, like most transit systems in the U.S., there's no direct airport terminal connection. At 40K per day, ridership is pretty good for a new, single-line system, but I don't see that Transport Politic map being realized any time soon.


Sky Harbor Airport is actually currently building a airport people mover system that will connect to the light rail at 44th St.

http://skyharbor.com/pdf/automated-train-map.pdf

Anyways I would say in someways it is fairly well patronized considering that it serves ASU which is one of the larger colleges in the US.

As far as I know of there are no plans to add commuter rail, although there are plans to add extensions to the system.


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## FDW (Mar 9, 2010)

diablo234 said:


> Sky Harbor Airport is actually currently building a airport people mover system that will connect to the light rail at 44th St.
> 
> http://skyharbor.com/pdf/automated-train-map.pdf
> 
> ...


It also stops right by the US Airways Center and Chase Field, which are both excellent ridership generators.


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## ssiguy2 (Feb 19, 2005)

Despite that Seattle prides itself on being so touchy-feely liberal and green, it's new system cost literally twice as much to build but only gets half the ridership.


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## BoulderGrad (Jun 29, 2005)

ssiguy2 said:


> Despite that Seattle prides itself on being so touchy-feely liberal and green, it's new system cost literally twice as much to build but only gets half the ridership.


Note sure what Seattle or the fact that its "touchy-feely liberal green" has anything to do with the cost of light rail in Phoenix but:

Seattle's system goes through a rather deep tunnel, as well as a quite long stretch of elevated viaducts and is mostly grade separated. These things up the cost. 

Low ridership can be chocked up to the fact that it doesn't really hit the big population centers of the city quite yet while Phoenix's does. Seattle is currently building a tunnel that extends the line to the 2 densest neighborhoods in the city (Capitol Hill and the University District) that will boost ridership to almost 100,000 ppd. Other extensions to Lynnwood up north, Kent down south, and Redmond east across the lake are expected to boost ridership to almost 300,000 ppd. [/off topic]

I hope to see Phoenix do the same kind of expansion in the near future.


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## diablo234 (Aug 18, 2008)




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## JustinB (Aug 12, 2008)

ssiguy2 said:


> Despite that Seattle prides itself on being so touchy-feely liberal and green, it's new system cost literally twice as much to build but only gets half the ridership.


Seattle's system is more like a hybrid LRT/metro system with too few stops. It was designed to be quick, and regional in nature. The system is great evidence to debunk the idea speed attracts riders. The system is really fast, and barely attracts 20,000 riders.

If you want to attract riders, and have high ridership, you need to make the system convenient, and accessible. Pheonix's system is very accessible, Seattle's not so much.


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## davidmichealperre (Dec 31, 2010)

Phoenix needs a theme park or like a amusment / water park. i mean really heres SOO many lots lose to downtown for one of these. i mean a city of over 4 million, a theme park would get so much attention and help out tourism and not just make people think that Phoenix is a dead dusty city, beacuse its now. its called poenix for a reason, it is starting to sprout up out of the ground like the phoenix bird coes out of the ashes.


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## hoosier (Apr 11, 2007)

BoulderGrad said:


> Note sure what Seattle or the fact that its "touchy-feely liberal green" has anything to do with the cost of light rail in Phoenix but:
> 
> Seattle's system goes through a rather deep tunnel, as well as a quite long stretch of elevated viaducts and is mostly grade separated. These things up the cost.
> 
> ...


And another moron conservative gets "owned."


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

I've ridden the Phoenix Metro in July. I'm absoutely shocked that Phoenix didn't take into account that it easily gets to 115 degrees when designing their stations. Phoenix is the hottest major city in the US and it amazes me that there is no relief from the heat.


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

soup or man said:


> I've ridden the Phoenix Metro in July. I'm absoutely shocked that Phoenix didn't take into account that it easily gets to 115 degrees when designing their stations. Phoenix is the hottest major city in the US and it amazes me that there is no relief from the heat.


Ditto for Miami Metrorail, but given the weather on the east coast, would you rather be waiting for a Phoenix light-rail train in 115 degree heat or a Miami Metrorail train in 95 degree heat with high humidity?


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## Bobdreamz (Sep 12, 2002)

Woonsocket54 said:


> Ditto for Miami Metrorail, but given the weather on the east coast, would you rather be waiting for a Phoenix light-rail train in 115 degree heat or a Miami Metrorail train in 95 degree heat with high humidity?


Having ridden Miami's Metrorail extensively over the years the stations have huge concrete canopys to shield people from the sun or from the daily downpours of rain we get in the summer.

The Metrorail Government station downtown:










Earlington Heights station :










The Phoenix light rail system looks good as do the trains but I do agree with you that those stations don't provide enough shade.


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## desertpunk (Oct 12, 2009)

It would have been great if Phoenix did a cut-and-cover subway underneath Central Ave and then surface lines away from Downtown with air-conditioned stops every half mile or so and regular stops in between. But the expense and the disruption of a subway section would have been extreme. A/C stops should still be built, if only a few each year.


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

If the problem in Miami is "it's not the heat, it's the humidity" then shaded platforms aren't really the solution. 

Valley Metro probably could provide more shade from the hot Arizona sun, but would that even matter? John McCain got skin cancer, and I don't even think he rides light rail.


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

Woonsocket54 said:


> If the problem in Miami is "it's not the heat, it's the humidity" then shaded platforms aren't really the solution.
> 
> Valley Metro probably could provide more shade from the hot Arizona sun, but would that even matter? John McCain got skin cancer, and I don't even think he rides light rail.


At least it rains in Miami.


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## Bobdreamz (Sep 12, 2002)

Woonsocket54 said:


> If the problem in Miami is "it's not the heat, it's the humidity" then shaded platforms aren't really the solution.
> 
> Valley Metro probably could provide more shade from the hot Arizona sun, but would that even matter? John McCain got skin cancer, and I don't even think he rides light rail.


Well the headway for Metrorail trains during rush hour is about 7 &1/2 to 10 minutes only so that's not too long to wait. After the rush hours, service is every 15 minutes. Miami isn't the only city that suffers from humudity though.


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

Southeast Phoenix metro is rolling out BRT early next week.









source: http://www.cptdb.ca/index.php?showtopic=13163&pid=466657&st=0&#entry466657

"The LINK" is in Mesa and Chandler, exurban Arizona. The bus line connects to the Sycamore light-rail station.

East Valley Tribune
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/local/article_87046178-24ee-11e0-ad43-001cc4c03286.html?mode=story



> *Two new bus lines to debut in East Valley*
> Posted: Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:43 pm | Updated: 9:45 pm, Fri Jan 21, 2011.
> 
> By Garin Groff, Tribune
> ...


Arizona Republic
http://www.azcentral.com/community/...outheast-valley-transit-system-big-steps.html



> *Southeast Valley transit system to take 2 big steps Monday*
> 
> by Gary Nelson - Jan. 20, 2011 01:38 PM
> The Arizona Republic
> ...


And because Arizona is the self-proclaimed "Mecca for Prejudice and Bigotry," let's pull a comment from the Arizona Republic website, typical of the local response to bus routes:



> Being from the Northeast originally and having public transit for a much longer time I can tell you this.
> Public transportation is only good for mostly low income people. It promotes moving low income people into going into the nicer communities which there by brings more crime.
> 
> So you can say what you want but in the end Public transportation is nothing but a drain on the tax payers to start with and eventually it will bring more crime our way. When the low income people have no cars, they take public transportaion to get to the places that have nice homes, cars etc and they like to take them for themselves.
> Wait and see !!!


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## SimplySensible (Jan 25, 2011)

*wow*

Ok east coast ignorant doughbag

What about our kids and students that cant afford cars yet

or people that crashed their cars!!!???

or people that have a suspended lisence do to speeding tickets?

are those people criminals also???

Get a life and see the real world


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## SimplySensible (Jan 25, 2011)

*AMAZING SUGGESTION!!!!! PLEASE READ!!!!*

So I get off the bus on main street and Greenfield
I live on Greenfield and brown in east mesa
I get off the bus at 6:30 and start walking the 2 1/2 mile walk home
Within the hour or so i see six NOT IN SERVICE BUSSES PASS!!!! SIX!!!!
My guess is that there is a bus garage somewhere near by
My suggestion is that while these multiple busses pass by empty they should stop wasting their gas and pick up passengers on the way!!!
SUGGESTING A BUS LINE ON GREENFIELD ROAD PLEASE!!!!!!!!!
It is much needed 
thank you for your time
SimplySensible <3

ps. how do i write to city council and get my point across so i can see change??????


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## k.k.jetcar (Jul 17, 2008)

> I get off the bus at 6:30 and start walking the 2 1/2 mile walk home


SimplySensible, you're a brave soul, especially when you're doing that in summer.

*better to not react too much to the newspaper reader comments section- it's the repository of a lot of lexical diarrhea, and makes the comments of typical SSC trolls seem measured and reasonable in comparison...


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## Dan78 (Nov 17, 2009)

> "Being from the Northeast originally and having public transit for a much longer time I can tell you this. Public transportation is only good for mostly low income people. It promotes moving low income people into going into the nicer communities which there by brings more crime.
> 
> So you can say what you want but in the end Public transportation is nothing but a drain on the tax payers to start with and eventually it will bring more crime our way. When the low income people have no cars, they take public transportaion to get to the places that have nice homes, cars etc and they like to take them for themselves.
> Wait and see !!!"


Idiotic claptrap. Glad he doesn't live in the Northeast anymore. But... this is an all too common idea trotted out--that somehow, mass transit will allow "undesireables" (use your imagination here) to invade "nice" communities. 

His last sentence is kind of confusing. Is he saying that low-income people are going to use Valley Metro for the purpose of stealing cars (owned by 'nice' people, presumably) and to look for houses to 'squat' in?

This type of resistance to mass transit seems largely confined to the U.S. In Italy, for example, neighborhoods are more likely to complain that they're being bypassed by a new rail line than to complain a new station or extension will destroy "their neighborhood's unique character" or whatever.


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

I agree, but it's not as bad as it used to be. When my state(Maryland) start building the light rail in the late 80's, everybody feared crime will go up because the undesirables will move in and commit crimes in their "utopian" neighborhoods and destroy property values.


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## diablo234 (Aug 18, 2008)

I never could understand the mentality of those people who say mass transit brings an increase in crime. Criminals also have cars as well or if they don't they can always carjack someone or steal a car to gain some wheels. Case in point look at Arlington, TX or Clayton County, Georgia which has plenty of run down areas despite *gasp* no mass transit. :nuts:


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

Probably people who never used transit and/or have been brainwashed by anti-mass transit propaganda. These same people are probably racist too.


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

Dan78 said:


> This type of resistance to mass transit seems largely confined to the U.S. In Italy, for example, neighborhoods are more likely to complain that they're being bypassed by a new rail line than to complain a new station or extension will destroy "their neighborhood's unique character" or whatever.


I'd not jump into the bandwagon so fast... First, "new rail lines" (regional ones, not mere tramways that mix with traffic) haven't been built in a while in Italy, save for cases of rectification and, of course, high-speed rail lines (which is a totally different issue).

Second, trams and subways sometimes do get fiercely opposed by residents of more upscale areas, for reasons slightly different than those from US, but not much. Milano3 (an upscale neighborhood built as planned community in 1972) is an example of that, among many others. There, in Italy, concerns usually range on the place being made accessible for non-standard-households (meaning: students, young couples, immigrant families etc).

In any case, I guess the opposition is less about mass transit itself, but about perspectives that the neighborhood could change not only demographically (living in a place unaccessible for transit is a good hedge against massive influx of illegal immigrants as, AFAIK, it's been increasingly difficult for illegals to get driver's license) but also in terms of zoning. Once there is light-rail or tramway going into your are, developers could start pressing for multi-story buildings to be allowed along the transit corridor, and for residential streets/avenues where transit goes through to be rezoned to allow commercial activity.

Even if the opposition is "coded" in the form of "let's stop crime", it usually is about changing the neighborhood character.

As much as I usually oppose transit on moral grounds (it promotes a less individualistic lifestyle), I also oppose this manipulation of data or irrational fears to promote NIMBY-ism, as no neighborhood has any inherited "right" to keep its demographic profile intact and ban everybody else. The second part of the argument should not justify opposition to transit either: "pressure" from developers should be kept at bay by keeping the zoning and not changing it.

I am more sympathetic to anti-transit opposition when it comes already tied with rezoning as a way to promote the money needed to fund the project. I can understand the use of eminent domain to build transit, but it is hard to accept the idea of a local government rezoning an area around a transit corridor just to capitalize on future development taxes.


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## Dan78 (Nov 17, 2009)

Point conceded. I was making a more general observation based on my own experiences, but I'm sure counterexamples exist.



Suburbanist said:


> As much as I usually oppose transit on moral grounds (it promotes a less individualistic lifestyle).


Does it? And if so, why is an individualistic lifestyle inherently better? I take it from your name and sig that you're a proponent of American-style, low density sprawl.



Suburbanist said:


> I am more sympathetic to anti-transit opposition when it comes already tied with rezoning as a way to promote the money needed to fund the project. I can understand the use of eminent domain to build transit, but it is hard to accept the idea of a local government rezoning an area around a transit corridor just to capitalize on future development taxes.


Zoning and covenants have been ways the U.S. government has historically promoted low-density greenfield development. Removing them simply allows market forces to build what was artificially blocked--medium to high-density, mixed use development.


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## manrush (May 8, 2008)

I, for the life of me, can't comprehend of anyone opposing public transit on moral grounds. It's just so illogical.


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

Does anyone know what it the expected farebox recovery rate for this new Phoenix project?


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## LoverOfDubai (Jul 10, 2007)

SimplySensible said:


> So I get off the bus on main street and Greenfield
> I live on Greenfield and brown in east mesa
> I get off the bus at 6:30 and start walking the 2 1/2 mile walk home
> Within the hour or so i see six NOT IN SERVICE BUSSES PASS!!!! SIX!!!!
> ...


SimplySensible, yes the RPTA bus depot is on Greenfield, about a half mile south of the Loop 202 Red Mountain.

Secondly, a bus on Greenfield (probably to be named Route 160) is planned. But according to the 2010 Update of the Regional Transportation Plan, that route is expected to start service sometime between 2021 and 2025. And that is only if funding is available. And then when Proposition 400 ends (in 2025) a new transportation tax will need to be approved or the City of Mesa will have to take over the funding.

Third, Route 136 provides service on Brown during weekday rush hours (although only four trips are provided per direction - two in the morning and two in the afternoon). I am not sure if the timetable fits with your own schedule or it it takes you where you need to go (or at least to another route where you can connect to get to your destination). But I thought I should inform you of this alternative.


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

The Arizona Republic
http://www.azcentral.com/community/.../26/20110126mesa-gateway-bus-service0126.html



> _Brian Sexton_
> 
> *Bus service to Gateway along Power Road launched*
> _Route 184 runs along Power, links northeast Mesa, southeast Gilbert_
> ...


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## diablo234 (Aug 18, 2008)

Some article on how areas near the Phoenix light rail line are being revitalized.



> *Light rail brings renewed vigor to older Tempe neighborhoods*
> Dianna M. Náñez - Feb. 28, 2009 07:30 AM
> http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/2009/02/28/20090228tr-railcondo0228-CP.html
> The Arizona Republic
> ...


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## desertpunk (Oct 12, 2009)

*Phoenix East Valley light rail*









http://www.hdrinc.com/portfolio/central-phoenixeast-valley-light-rail-transit









http://www.hdrinc.com/portfolio/central-phoenixeast-valley-light-rail-transit









http://www.hdrinc.com/portfolio/central-phoenixeast-valley-light-rail-transit


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

East Valley Tribune
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/money/article_c5f18ea2-a6ba-11e1-b47e-0019bb2963f4.html



> Posted: Monday, May 28, 2012 7:14 am | Updated: 9:25 am, Tue May 29, 2012.
> 
> *Metro breaks ground Wednesday on Mesa light rail segment*
> By Garin Groff, Tribune East Valley Tribune
> ...


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## Falubaz (Nov 20, 2004)

^^ Wow, plans are made! 2031! Grat job*, but at that time we would probably be able to use teletransponders! 

What the heck do they plan to do meanwhile? All the plans from this map should be already done by the 2016!

*sarcasm


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

Falubaz said:


> ^^ Wow, plans are made! 2031! Grat job*, but at that time we would probably be able to use teletransponders!
> 
> What the heck do they plan to do meanwhile? All the plans from this map should be already done by the 2016!
> 
> *sarcasm


Sorry, that map is out of date. According to an article by Sean Holstege in today's Arizona Republic, it should actually be 2032.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarep.../29/20120529mesa-light-rail-break-ground.html


> *Northeast extension*: Valley voters originally approved a line into northeast Phoenix that ended at Paradise Valley Mall. Since then, the line has been deferred indefinitely, and no serious study has begun. Recent action pushes the opening date one year further out, to 2032.


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## FM 2258 (Jan 24, 2004)

Falubaz said:


> ^^ Wow, plans are made! 2031! Grat job*, but at that time we would probably be able to use teletransponders!
> 
> What the heck do they plan to do meanwhile? All the plans from this map should be already done by the 2016!
> 
> *sarcasm


I agree, too little too far out. I'm not sure why planners in the U.S. propose ideas so far out they will be dead or elderly by the time the system is in use. hno:hno:hno:


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

Arizona Republic
http://www.azcentral.com/community/phoenix/20120522phoenix-light-rail-plan-would-link-maryvale



> *Phoenix light-rail plan would link Maryvale*
> Proposal wouldn't bisect central neighborhood
> by Emily Gersema - May. 31, 2012 08:20 AM
> The Republic | azcentral.com
> ...


----------



## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

There is an article in Arizona Republic about a possible second extension into Mesa
http://www.azcentral.com/community/...20120626mesa-light-rail-second-expansion.html

Here is a comment on the board from a local anarchist:



> The standard of living in large cities that depend on mass transit is significantly lower than in areas that are optimized for cars. In New York, the cost of living is substantially higher than in Phoenix. Although the wages are higher, they are not high enough to compensate for the difference in cost.
> 
> People understand this! New York's growth rate is significantly lower than the Phoenix metro area. In fact New York's growth rate is lower than their birth rate, while Phoenix has experienced double digit growth rates for the last 40 years.
> 
> ...


----------



## Ledindondelafarce (Dec 29, 2011)

What a fallacy... Isn't New York a bit too cold to have swimming pools anyway ? :nuts:


----------



## trainrover (May 6, 2006)

Do southern US cities bear penchants for mythical traffic? Like Houston's share in this forum, the photos so far in this thread reveal a ghost town


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

How can an object "bear" a "penchant" for something?


----------



## trainrover (May 6, 2006)




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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

Phoenix Business Journal
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2013/03/22/phx-skytrain-set-to-open-at-phoenix.html



> Mar 22, 2013, 3:07pm MST
> UPDATED: Mar 22, 2013, 3:26pm MST
> *PHX Sky Train set to open at Phoenix airport April 8*
> 
> ...


----------



## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

source: http://www.bombardier.com/en/transp...press-releases/details?docID=0901260d802af38c


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## Thebeekerham (Jan 10, 2013)

FM 2258 said:


> I agree, too little too far out. I'm not sure why planners in the U.S. propose ideas so far out they will be dead or elderly by the time the system is in use. hno:hno:hno:


The answer (as far as Phoenix Valley Metro goes) is quite simple really .....


NIMBY


End of story.

Folks in the Greater Phoenix Metro Valley area are far too addicted to their cars. And as was brought up earlier in this thread, some communities believe it will bring crime to them (Snottsdale, anyone?). If any of the figures listed about the Valley Metro are accurate (33% farebox recovery - so only 1 in 3 people using the light rail actually PAY to do so .... HUH??), every mile added to the system increases the costs across the board, which in turn will increase the amount the city/county governments have to pay to help support and keep the system operational. The Valley just ain't got the caysh to do that.


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## saiho (Jun 28, 2009)

Thebeekerham said:


> The answer (as far as Phoenix Valley Metro goes) is quite simple really .....
> 
> 
> NIMBY
> ...


 Farebox recovery is not a measure of fare evasion its a measure of profitability of a system. So 33% means the fare of riding the light rail only covers 1/3 of the actual cost of operation.


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

Thebeekerham said:


> 33% farebox recovery - so only 1 in 3 people using the light rail actually PAY to do so .... HUH??


You're not being literal enough. The truth is that 2 out of every 3 fareboxes gets stolen. How they get pulled out of the floor of the bus is another story.


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## Thebeekerham (Jan 10, 2013)

saiho said:


> Farebox recovery is not a measure of fare evasion its a measure of profitability of a system. So 33% means the fare of riding the light rail only covers 1/3 of the actual cost of operation.


Thank you that for bit of education. I wasn't totally sure what it meant, and now I do!


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## Thebeekerham (Jan 10, 2013)

Woonsocket54 said:


> You're not being literal enough. The truth is that 2 out of every 3 fareboxes gets stolen. How they get pulled out of the floor of the bus is another story.


LOL ... nicely done. 


And, last I checked, Woonsocket is in RI, is it not?? :lol:


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

Woonsockets are in Rhode Island and South Dakota, both lovely towns to spend a weekend or a lifetime...


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## Thebeekerham (Jan 10, 2013)

Woonsocket54 said:


> Woonsockets are in Rhode Island and South Dakota, both lovely towns to spend a weekend or a lifetime...


Having lived in Lisbon/Lisbon Center/Lisbon Falls, I know all about the beauty you speak of.


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## city_thing (May 25, 2006)

Woonsocket54 said:


> Woonsockets are in Rhode Island and South Dakota, both lovely towns to spend a weekend or a lifetime...


Sorry for the post unrelated to Phoenix Light Rail, but Woonsocket, I'm always amazed at how you seem to know about transport projects around the world. The other day you posted about a station opening in the outer suburbs of Melbourne; I live in Melbourne and I'd never even heard of it!

How do you know so much? Do you work in the field, or are you just a super geek? :lol:

Anyway, thanks for all the hard work and effort you put into the forum. You're a great contributor.


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

city_thing said:


> Sorry for the post unrelated to Phoenix Light Rail, but Woonsocket, I'm always amazed at how you seem to know about transport projects around the world. The other day you posted about a station opening in the outer suburbs of Melbourne; I live in Melbourne and I'd never even heard of it!
> 
> How do you know so much? Do you work in the field, or are you just a super geek? :lol:
> 
> Anyway, thanks for all the hard work and effort you put into the forum. You're a great contributor.


Categorize me as a super geek. :lol: I'm just a transit-geek at large. Here at SSC we have folks who specialize in Japan transit news, Paris transit updates, Montreal transit trolling, etc. I dabble in a little bit of everything.


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## NickABQ (Jun 6, 2007)

I fly to Phoenix once a month for work from ABQ, and do all my travel within PHX by Valley Metro and I must say IT IS AN ABOSOLUTE DREAM.

the system really functions so well and I am continually impressed by it's service, cleanliness and security. 

We travel all over for work so I travel metro in alot of different cities. I have to say Valley Metro is truly top-notch. Even on Sunday afternoons it is packed in some stretches.

It is exactly the type of system I would love to see constructed in ABQ, or other fast-growing western cities that are on the "big" side of medium sized.


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## city_thing (May 25, 2006)

Woonsocket54 said:


> Categorize me as a super geek. :lol: I'm just a transit-geek at large. Here at SSC we have folks who specialize in Japan transit news, Paris transit updates, Montreal transit trolling, etc. I dabble in a little bit of everything.


Well congratulations on your "super geekdom". Your posts are always interesting and well informed, you're an asset to the forum! kay:


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## Thebeekerham (Jan 10, 2013)

^^

+1 ... Thanks Woonsocket, I learn a lot reading your posts!

And my apologies to everyone else for (partially) hijacking the thread.


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

*PHOENIX | Buses*


Valley Metro #6066 by L.A. Urban Soul, on Flickr


Valley Metro #6707 by L.A. Urban Soul, on Flickr


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

Nauseating incident on Mesa-Tempe light rail

http://www.azcentral.com/community/...ain-kills-pedestrain-abrk.html?nclick_check=1


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## desertpunk (Oct 12, 2009)

*Phoenix light rail at Tempe Town Lake*


Phoenix Light Rail at Tempe Town Lake by Vijayant Rajvanshi, on Flickr


*PHX Sky Train*


PHX Sky Train - heading into Terminal by rob-the-org, on Flickr


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

Progressive Railroading
http://www.progressiverailroading.c...service-sets-Saturday-ridership-record--38874



> 12/30/2013
> 
> *Valley Metro's light-rail service sets Saturday ridership record*
> 
> ...


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## Nouvellecosse (Jun 4, 2005)

Woonsocket54 said:


> Categorize me as a super geek. :lol: I'm just a transit-geek at large. Here at SSC we have folks who specialize in Japan transit news, Paris transit updates, *Montreal transit trolling*, etc. I dabble in a little bit of everything.


You are so bad, but yes. :rofl:


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

Published today:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...s-attend-central-mesa-light-rail-welding.html
> 
> *Students attend Central Mesa light rail welding*
> 18 Feb 2014
> ...


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## FM 2258 (Jan 24, 2004)

^^

At first I thought it said, light rail *wedding*.


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/urban/single-view/view/solar-power-at-valley-metro-depot.html
> 
> *Solar power at Valley Metro depot*
> 07 Apr 2014
> ...


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

Any recent project on design of further segments of light rail in Phoenix?


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

I can't believe that I missed this news - from KPNX:



> http://www.azcentral.com/story/nowd...bor-sky-train-expands-to-terminal-3/20087309/
> 
> *Sky Harbor Sky Train expands to Terminal 3*
> December 9, 2014
> ...


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

Update on light rail extension east into Mesa - scheduled to open by 2015.11.15

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/local/mesa/article_abdd1842-b95e-11e4-9c60-17a1c65f45c7.html


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

*Light rail extension to Mesa - 2015.03.24 status update*



> Status update: Construction on central Mesa rail extension
> 
> ■The connection of new rail to the existing track at Sycamore station is complete.
> 
> ...


source + photos: http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...rail-extension-will-revive-downtown/70386466/


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

*New bus route in Buckeye, AZ*

A new bus route has started operation in Buckeye, a suburb of Phoenix - bus 685.









https://www.facebook.com/valleymetro/photos/pcb.10153238192643186/10153238189783186/?type=1&theater









https://www.facebook.com/valleymetro/photos/pcb.10153238192643186/10153238189778186/?type=1&theater









https://www.facebook.com/valleymetro/photos/pcb.10153238192643186/10153238189888186/?type=1&theater









https://www.facebook.com/valleymetro/photos/pcb.10153238192643186/10153238189788186/?type=1&theater


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## Pink Jazz (May 12, 2015)

I'm new to these forums, but I have shared this idea with several forums, so I will share it here. I came up with a dream light rail and streetcar system for the Phoenix area. Each line would have its own color, with the following:


*Red Line* - Existing route plus north/west extension to Metrocenter Mall and east extension to Power Road and Superstition Springs Center. Serves Phoenix, Tempe, and Mesa.
*Blue Line* - Existing route (including Downtown Mesa extension) plus planned Capitol/I-10 West extension and an additional extension west on I-10 and north on Loop 101 to Westgate. Serves Glendale, Phoenix, Tempe, and Mesa.
*Green Line* - The planned Tempe Streetcar.
*Silver Line* - Baseline and Central Avenue up Central to Indian School Road, east on Indian School Road, north on SR 51, east on Shea Blvd, and north on Tatum to Paradise Valley Mall. Serves Phoenix including the northeastern part of the city.
*Orange Line* - From Arrowhead Towne Center, east on Bell Road, south on 59th Avenue, east on Glendale Avenue, south on Central Avenue, east on Loop 202, south to Sky Harbor Airport, east on Broadway, south on McClintock, and east on Chandler Blvd to Chandler Fashion Center. Serves Glendale, Peoria, Phoenix, Tempe, and Chandler.
*Pink Line* - From Chandler Blvd and 48th Street, east on Chandler Blvd/Williams Field Road to Power Road, and north on Power Road to Superstition Springs Center. Serves Phoenix (Ahwatukee), Chandler, Gilbert, and Mesa.
*Brown Line* - From Scottsdale Road and Frank Lloyd Wright south to Chandler Blvd, and east on Chandler Blvd to Chandler Fashion Center. Serves Scottsdale, Tempe, and Chandler.
*Purple Line* - 75th Avenue and Baseline to Power Road via Baseline, and north on Power Road to Superstition Springs Center. Serves Phoenix (Laveen), Tempe, Mesa, and Gilbert.
*Gold Line* - Downtown Phoenix from US Airways Center/Chase Field, east via existing alignment, south on Dobson Road, east on Southern Avenue, and south on Gilbert Road to Queen Creek Road. Serves Phoenix, Tempe, Mesa, Gilbert, and Chandler.
For efficient use of rail equipment, *Orange Line* trains that arriving inbound at Chandler Fashion Center would depart outbound as the *Brown Line* and vice-versa. Similarly, *Pink Line* trains arriving inbound at Superstition Springs Center would depart outbound as the *Purple Line* and vice-versa.

I personally think the *Pink*, *Brown*, and *Purple *Lines could be popular with mall shoppers. The *Pink Line *would connect Chandler Fashion Center, SanTan Village, and Superstition Springs Center. The *Brown Line *would connect Scottsdale Fashion Square and Chandler Fashion Center. Finally, the *Purple Line *would connect Arizona Mills and Superstition Springs Center.

For those who were wondering about the choices of my colors, here are my reasons:


The *Red*, *Blue*, and *Green* Lines are named as such as these are actually being planned (plus with my own extensions), and those are typically the first three colors used by most transit agencies.
The *Brown Line* was routed to avoid Hispanic areas to avoid being offensive (The Asian-American communities in Atlanta objected to the Yellow Line which is why it was renamed to the Gold Line).
The *Pink Line *was named as such since it passes mostly through politically conservative areas which likely has a lower than average gay population for the Phoenix area, thus fewer gays would be offended and gay stereotypes would not be promoted.
Like with MARTA in Atlanta, I used *Gold* instead of Yellow, to avoid offending the Asian communities on the Dobson corridor.
*Silver*, *Orange*, and *Purple *are completely random choices.
What does anyone think about these lines?


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

Pink Jazz said:


> [*]Like with MARTA in Atlanta, I used *Gold* instead of Yellow, to avoid offending the Asian communities on the Dobson corridor.


That was a hilarious incident in the history of MARTA. I am kind of wondering how the "Yellow Line" still passes through Gallery Place/Chinatown station in DC. One thing if it were the Yellowskin Line, which would be very offensive (like the Washington Redskins). #asianlivesmatter


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## Pink Jazz (May 12, 2015)

Woonsocket54 said:


> That was a hilarious incident in the history of MARTA. I am kind of wondering how the "Yellow Line" still passes through Gallery Place/Chinatown station in DC. One thing if it were the Yellowskin Line, which would be very offensive (like the Washington Redskins). #asianlivesmatter


Definitely. Also, in Chicago, the Yellow Line stops in Skokie, which has a significant Asian population, and nobody has been offended. I wonder why it was considered offensive in Atlanta.

Still, if my system were to become a reality I would think it would be best to call that line the Gold Line to not take a chance with potentially offending the Asian communities along Dobson. There definitely is a fear of racism in the Phoenix area; at the same time I didn't route the Brown Line through a Hispanic area for the same reason.


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

Pink Jazz said:


> I wonder why it was considered offensive in Atlanta.


Atlanta is home to the civil rights movement and seeks to be inclusive. Phoenix is home to SB 1070 and seeks the exact opposite.


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## Pink Jazz (May 12, 2015)

For those who were wondering, here is a list of stops for all lines except for the Green Line:

*Red Line (From West to East):*


Metrocenter Mall
19th Ave and Dunlap
19th Ave and Northern
19th Ave and Glendale (walk to transfer to Orange Line)
19th Ave and Montebello
7th Ave and Camelback
Central and Camelback (walk to transfer to Orange Line)
Central and Campbell (shared with Orange Line)
Central and Indian School (shared with Orange Line, walk to transfer to Silver Line)
Central and Osborne (shared with Silver and Orange Lines)
Central and Thomas (shared with Silver and Orange Lines)
Central and Encanto (shared with Silver and Orange Lines)
Central and McDowell (shared with Silver and Orange Lines)
Central and Roosevelt (shared with Silver Line)
Central and Van Buren (northbound) / 1st Ave and Van Buren (southbound) (shared with Silver Line)
Central and Washington (northbound) / 1st Ave and Jefferson (southbound) (shared with Silver Line)
Washington and 3rd St (westbound) / Jefferson and 3rd St (eastbound)(Downtown Phoenix; shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
Washington and 12th St (westbound) / Jefferson and 12th St (eastbound) (shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
Washington and 24th St (westbound) / Jefferson and 24th St (eastbound) (shared with Blue and Gold Lines; walk to transfer to Orange Line)
Washington and 38th St (shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
Washington and 44th St (Sky Harbor Airport Station; shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
Washington and Priest (shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
Washington and Center Pkwy (shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
Third Street and Mill (Downtown Tempe Station; shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
Veterans Way and College Ave (Arizona State University; shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
University and Rural (shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
Apache and Dorsey (shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
Apache and McClintock (shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
Apache and Smith-Martin (shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
Apache and Price/Loop 101 (shared with Blue and Gold Lines)
Main and Sycamore (shared with Blue Line, walk to transfer to Gold Line)
Main and Alma School (shared with Blue Line)
Main and Country Club (shared with Blue Line)
Main and Center (Downtown Mesa Station; shared with Blue Line)
Main and Mesa (Mesa LDS Temple; shared with Blue Line)
Main and Stapley
Main and Gilbert
Main and Lindsay
Main and Val Vista
Main and Greenfield
Main and Higley
Main and Recker
Main and Power
Power and Broadway
Power and Southern
Superstition Springs Center (shared with Pink and Purple Lines)
 *Blue Line (from West to East):*



Westgate Station
University of Phoenix Stadium Station
Loop 101 and Camelback
Loop 101 and Indian School
Loop 101 and Thomas
Loop 101 and McDowell
I-10 and 91st Ave
I-10 and 83rd Ave
I-10 and 75th Ave
I-10 and 67th Ave
I-10 and 59th Ave
I-10 and 51st Ave
I-10 and 43rd Ave
I-10 and 35th Ave
I-10 and 27th Ave
I-10 and 19th Ave
19th Ave and Van Buren
Adams and 19th Ave (westbound) / Jefferson and 19th Ave (eastbound)
Washington and 15th Ave (westbound) / Jefferson and 15th Ave (eastbound)
Washington and 7th Ave (westbound) / Jefferson and 7th Ave (eastbound)
Washington and 1st Ave (westbound) / Jefferson and 1st Ave (eastbound)
Washington and 3rd St (westbound) / Jefferson and 3rd St (eastbound) (Downtown Phoenix; shared with Red and Gold Lines)
Washington and 12th St (westbound) / Jefferson and 12th St (eastbound) (shared with Red and Gold Lines)
Washington and 24th St (westbound) / Jefferson and 24th St (eastbound) (shared with Red and Gold Lines; walk to transfer to Orange Line)
Washington and 38th St (shared with Red and Gold Lines)
Washington and 44th St (Sky Harbor Airport Station; shared with Red and Gold Lines)
Washington and Priest (shared with Red and Gold Lines)
Washington and Center Pkwy (shared with Red and Gold Lines)
Third Street and Mill (Downtown Tempe Station; shared with Red and Gold Lines)
Veterans Way and College Ave (Arizona State University; shared with Red and Gold Lines)
University and Rural (shared with Red and Gold Lines)
Apache and Dorsey (shared with Red and Gold Lines)
Apache and McClintock (shared with Red and Gold Lines)
Apache and Smith-Martin (shared with Red and Gold Lines)
Apache and Price/Loop 101 (shared with Red and Gold Lines)
Main and Sycamore (shared with Red Line, walk to transfer to Gold Line)
Main and Alma School (shared with Red Line)
Main and Country Club (shared with Red Line)
Main and Center (Downtown Mesa; shared with Red Line)
Main and Mesa (Mesa LDS Temple; shared with Red Line)
 *Silver Line (from South to North):*



Central and Baseline (walk to transfer to Purple Line)
Central and Southern
Central and Roeser
Central and Broadway
Central and Pioneer
Central and Watkins
Central and Buckeye
Central and Washington (northbound) / 1st Ave and Jefferson southbound) (Downtown Phoenix; shared with Red Line)
Central and Van Buren (northbound) / 1st Ave and Van Buren (southbound) (shared with Red Line)
Central and Roosevelt (shared with Red Line)
Central and McDowell (shared with Red and Orange Lines)
Central and Encanto (shared with Red and Orange Lines)
Central and Thomas (shared with Red and Orange Lines)
Central and Osborne (shared with Red and Orange Lines)
Indian School and Central (walk to transfer to Red and Orange Lines)
Indian School and 7th St
Indian School and 12th St
Indian School and 16th St
SR 51 and Camelback
SR 51 and Bethany Home
SR 51 and Glendale
SR 51 and Northern
SR 51 and Shea
Shea and 36th St
Shea and 40th St
Shea and 44th St
Shea and Tatum
Tatum and Cactus
Paradise Valley Mall
 *Orange Line (from Northwest to Southeast):*



Arrowhead Towne Center
75th Ave and Bell
Bell and 67th Ave
Bell and 59th Ave
59th Ave and Greenway
59th Ave and Thunderbird
59th Ave and Cactus
59th Ave and Peoria
59th Ave and Olive
59th Ave and Northern
59th Ave and Glendale / Grand (Downtown Glendale Station)
Glendale and 57th Ave
Glendale and 51st Ave
Glendale and 43rd Ave
Glendale and 39th Ave
Glendale and 35th Ave
Glendale and 27th Ave
Glendale and 19th Ave (walk to transfer to Red Line)
Glendale and 7th Ave
Glendale and Central
Central and Maryland
Central and Bethany Home
Central and Camelback (walk to transfer to Red Line)
Central and Campbell (shared with Red Line)
Central and Indian School (shared with Red Line, walk to transfer to Silver Line)
Central and Osborne (shared with Red and Silver Lines)
Central and Thomas (shared with Red and Silver Lines)
Central and Encanto (shared with Red and Silver Lines)
Central and McDowell (shared with Red and Silver Lines)
I-10 and 7th St
I-10 and 12th St
I-10 and 16th St
Loop 202 and 24th St
24th St and Van Buren
24th St and Washington / Jefferson (walk to transfer to Red, Blue, and Gold Lines)
24th St and Buckeye (Sky Harbor Airport)
24th St and Broadway
Broadway and 32nd St
Broadway and 48th St
Broadway and Priest
Broadway and Hardy
Broadway and Rural (walk to transfer to Brown Line)
Broadway and McClintock
McClintock and Southern
McClintock and Baseline (walk to transfer to Purple Line)
McClintock and Guadalupe
McClintock and Elliot
McClintock and Warner
McClintock and Ray
Chandler and McClintock (shared with Pink and Brown Lines)
Chandler and Metro (Chandler Fashion Center; shared with Pink and Brown Lines)
 *Pink Line (from West to East):*



Chandler and 48th St
Chandler and 56th St
Chandler and Kyrene
Chandler and Rural (shared with Brown Line)
Chandler and McClintock (shared with Orange and Brown Lines)
Chandler and Metro (Chandler Fashion Center; shared with Orange and Brown Lines)
Chandler and Ellis
Chandler and Dobson
Chandler and Alma School
Chandler and Arizona (Downtown Chandler Station)
Chandler and McQueen
Chandler and Cooper
Chandler and Gilbert (walk to transfer to Gold Line)
Williams Field and Val Vista
Williams Field and Market (SanTan Village Station)
Williams Field and Higley
_Williams Field and Recker (potential add-in station based on future mixed use development)_
Williams Field and Power (ASU Polytechnic)
Power and Ray
_Power and Warner (potential add-in station)_
_Power and Elliot (potential add-in station)_
Power and Guadalupe
Power and Baseline (walk to transfer to Purple Line)
Power and Superstition Springs (shared with Purple Line)
Superstition Springs Center (shared with Red and Purple Lines)
 *Brown Line (from South to North):*



Chandler and Metro (Chandler Fashion Center; shared with Orange and Pink Lines)
Chandler and McClintock (shared with Orange and Pink Lines)
Chandler and Rural (shared with Pink Line)
Rural and Ray
Rural and Warner
Rural and Elliot
Rural and Guadalupe
Rural and Baseline (walk to transfer to Purple Line)
Rural and Southern
Rural and Broadway (walk to transfer to Orange Line)
Rural and Apache
Rural and Tyler (walk to transfer to Red, Blue, and Gold Lines)
Rural and Rio Salado
Scottsdale and McKellips
Scottsdale and Roosevelt
Scottsdale and McDowell
Scottsdale and Thomas
Scottsdale and Main (Old Town Scottsdale Station)
Scottsdale and Camelback (Scottsdale Fashion Square)
Scottsdale and Jackrabbit
Scottsdale and McDonald
Scottsdale and Lincoln
Scottsdale and Indian Bend
Scottsdale and McCormick
Scottsdale and Mountain View
Scottsdale and Shea
Scottsdale and Cactus
_Scottsdale and Sweetwater (potential add-in station)_
Scottsdale and Thunderbird
Scottsdale and Greenway (Kierland Commons)
Scottsdale and Frank Lloyd Wright
 *Purple Line (from West to East):*



Baseline and 75th Ave
Baseline and 67th Ave
Baseline and 51st Ave
Baseline and 35th Ave
Baseline and 27th Ave
Baseline and 19th Ave
Baseline and 7th Ave
Baseline and Central (walk to transfer to Silver Line)
Baseline and 16th St
Baseline and 24th St
Baseline and 32nd St
Baseline and 48th St
Baseline and Priest (Arizona Mills)
Baseline and Hardy
Baseline and Mill
Baseline and Rural (walk to transfer to Brown Line)
Baseline and McClintock (walk to transfer to Orange Line)
Baseline and Dobson
Baseline and Alma School
Baseline and Country Club
Baseline and McQueen/Mesa
Baseline and Cooper/Stapley
Baseline and Gilbert (walk to transfer to Gold Line)
Baseline and Val Vista (Dana Park)
Baseline and Greenfield
Baseline and Higley
Baseline and Power (walk to transfer to Pink Line)
Power and Superstition Springs (shared with Pink Line)
Superstition Springs Center (shared with Red and Pink Lines)
 *Gold Line (from West To East):*



Washington and 3rd St (westbound) / Jefferson and 3rd St (eastbound) (Downtown Phoenix; shared with Red and Blue Lines)
Washington and 12th St (westbound) / Jefferson and 12th St (eastbound) (shared with Red and Blue Lines)
Washington and 24th St (westbound) / Jefferson and 24th St (eastbound) (shared with Red and Blue Lines; walk to transfer to Orange Line)
Washington and 38th St (shared with Red and Blue Lines)
Washington and 44th St (Sky Harbor Airport Station; shared with Red and Blue Lines)
Washington and Priest (shared with Red and Blue Lines)
Washington and Center Pkwy (shared with Red and Blue Lines)
Third Street and Mill (Downtown Tempe Station; shared with Red and Blue Lines)
Veterans Way and College Ave (Arizona State University; shared with Red and Blue Lines)
University and Rural (shared with Red and Blue Lines)
Apache and Dorsey (shared with Red and Blue Lines)
Apache and McClintock (shared with Red and Blue Lines)
Apache and Smith-Martin (shared with Red and Blue Lines)
Apache and Price/Loop 101 (shared with Red and Blue Lines)
Dobson and Main (Mekong Plaza; walk to transfer Red and Blue Lines)
Dobson and Broadway
Southern and Dobson
Southern and Alma School (Fiesta Mall)
Southern and Country Club
Southern and Mesa
Southern and Stapley
Southern and Gilbert
Gilbert and Baseline (walk to transfer to Purple Line)
Gilbert and Guadalupe
Gilbert and Page (Downtown Gilbert)
Gilbert and Civic Center
Gilbert and Ray
Gilbert and Chandler/Williams Field (walk to transfer to Pink Line)
Gilbert and Pecos (Chandler-Gilbert Community College)
Gilbert and Germann
Gilbert and Queen Creek
 What does anyone think about these particular stop locations?


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## ramakrishna1984 (Jun 21, 2013)

Yes, the three-mile extension is expected to carry 5,000 daily riders and will have four stations and a park-and-ride.


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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)




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## Pink Jazz (May 12, 2015)

Back to the subject of my dream light rail system, there would need to be places where the cars for each line would be. So, here is how I would do it:

The existing yard in Phoenix would be expanded for more cars. Lines based in Phoenix would be the Red, Blue, Silver, and Gold Lines.
Tempe plans on building its own yard for the Tempe Streetcar (Green Line in my system ). In my system the Tempe yard would be expanded for light rail. Lines based in Tempe would include the Green, Orange, Pink, Brown, and Purple Lines. While it may make more geographic sense to base the Orange Line in Phoenix, the Orange Line interlines with the Brown Line at Chandler Fashion Center and thus uses the same cars for both lines, thus basing it in Tempe along with the Brown Line would keep a more even distribution of lines between the two yards.


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## lkstrknb (Jan 14, 2009)

I had to ride and experience this cool Sky Harbor SkyTrain in person on a recent trip to Phoenix.


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## Pink Jazz (May 12, 2015)

Also, expanding on my idea of a dream light rail system, there would also be a community circulator bus that would serve Queen Creek, southeast Gilbert, and east Mesa which would serve as a feeder to the *Pink Line*. There was a transit survey in 2013 to Queen Creek residents on which transit mode would they prefer, and one of the most popular choices was a community circulator.

My idea of a community circulator to feed into the *Pink Line* would serve ASU Polytechnic, Phoenix-Mesa Gateway Airport, the Queen Creek Marketplace, the neighborhoods of Seville and Freeman Farms, SanTan Village, and Cooley Station via Sossaman, Rittenhouse, Ellsworth, Chandler Heights, Greenfield, Market, and Williams Field back to ASU Poly.

What does anyone think about this idea for a currently unserved portion of the Valley?


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## Pink Jazz (May 12, 2015)

I have shared my dream light rail idea with a friend that has been visiting us, and he liked my idea. 

However, one thing that he was a bit skeptical of was interlining some lines at their endpoints. In my dream system, there would be two pairs of lines that would be interlined, the *Orange* and the *Brown *Lines at Chandler Fashion Center, and as well as the *Pink* and *Purple* Lines at Superstition Springs Center. 

My rationale for interlining these lines is to increase operational efficiency and make better use of pay hours for light rail operators. Several Phoenix area bus routes do this already during certain times of the day. However, my friend says that interlining lines would cause potential confusion with riders when they board, thinking that they boarded one line when they actually boarded another. 

I think potential mis-boarding could be alleviated if the destination signs are changed prior to arriving at the last stop. Multicolor LED destination signs can be used to help riders know what color line they are boarding, displaying the text in the color of the line.

What does anyone here think about interlining light rail lines?


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From KTAR:



> http://ktar.com/2015/08/21/valley-metro-rail-extension-opens-in-mesa-ariz-several-months-early/
> 
> *Valley Metro Rail extension opens in Mesa, Ariz. several months early*
> Aug 20, 2015 - 5:51 pm
> ...


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

Updated map on urbanrail.net:


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## Pink Jazz (May 12, 2015)

One thing if my dream light rail system were to become a reality, I know that some people prefer referring to lines by letters or numbers instead of colors. For those who prefer such convention, the lines could still use my particular color assignments on maps, but if I were to give each line a letter, this would be my convention:


*Red Line - "M" for Mesa/Main/Metrocenter*
*Blue Line - "W" for Westgate*
*Green Line - "T" for Tempe*
*Silver Line - "P" for Phoenix/Paradise Valley Mall*
*Orange Line - "G" for Glendale*
*Pink Line - "C" for Chandler*
*Brown Line - "S" for Scottsdale*
*Purple Line - "B" for Baseline*
*Gold Line - "D" for Dobson/Downtown Phoenix*


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## ssiguy2 (Feb 19, 2005)

Food for Phoenix for bringing the line in before time and on budget. When it does that it makes people more receptive to further dollars going towards more expansion. 

When will the extension to Dunlop Ave open? 

On a critical note, why do they run the LRT so infrequently? Every 12 minutes during the day is not rapid transit. That's not even very food frequency for a decent bus route. A true rapid transit system should be one where timetables aren't needed and missing a trains means just a few minute wait till the next one. There is no way they should be less than every 6 minutes during the day and evening.


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## Pink Jazz (May 12, 2015)

ssiguy2 said:


> Food for Phoenix for bringing the line in before time and on budget. When it does that it makes people more receptive to further dollars going towards more expansion.
> 
> When will the extension to Dunlop Ave open?
> 
> On a critical note, why do they run the LRT so infrequently? Every 12 minutes during the day is not rapid transit. That's not even very food frequency for a decent bus route. A true rapid transit system should be one where timetables aren't needed and missing a trains means just a few minute wait till the next one. There is no way they should be less than every 6 minutes during the day and evening.


In my dream system, on the portion where the *Red* and *Blue* Lines overlap, they would run in alternating 5 minute schedules and every 10 minutes individually on the non-overlapping portions. The *Silver Line* would run every 7 minutes, the *Orange*, *Brown*, *Pink*, and *Purple* Lines would run every 10 minutes, and the *Gold Line* would run every 11 minutes.


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## ssiguy2 (Feb 19, 2005)

But the riders shouldn't have to wait that long to get decent service. 

Americans cities often make the mistake of spending huge sums on new transit lines but then devote little to operations negating the word rapid out of rapid transit. All during the day I don't think any true rapid transit system should run less frequently than every 5 to 6 minutes and at least twice that during rush hours.


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## Pink Jazz (May 12, 2015)

ssiguy2 said:


> But the riders shouldn't have to wait that long to get decent service.
> 
> Americans cities often make the mistake of spending huge sums on new transit lines but then devote little to operations negating the word rapid out of rapid transit. All during the day I don't think any true rapid transit system should run less frequently than every 5 to 6 minutes and at least twice that during rush hours.


Of course, making the lines too frequent on corridors with overlapping lines could lead to potential train bunching and slower service. Phoenix isn't NYC where we need that kind of frequency you desire. I think in the *Red*/*Blue* overlap in my system an alternating 5 minute schedule is plenty, since you can for example take either line to go from Downtown Mesa to Downtown Phoenix. The other lines would serve less dense areas (*Pink* and *Gold* in particular), so they don't need to be as frequent.


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

Is there any chance of extending the system to Scottsdale (East) or Sun City (Northwest)?


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## Pink Jazz (May 12, 2015)

Suburbanist said:


> Is there any chance of extending the system to Scottsdale (East) or Sun City (Northwest)?


 Unfortunately, Scottsdale does not want light rail to keep the undesirables out. However, in my dream system, Scottsdale would be served by the *Brown Line* going via Scottsdale/Rural Road from Frank Lloyd Wright to Chandler Fashion Center.

As for Sun City, not sure. My dream system doesn't include Sun City, however, when I shared my idea with the City of Phoenix website Talk Transportation, someone suggested starting the *Orange Line* further west in Surprise, rather than my suggested western terminus at Arrowhead Towne Center.


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## bighomey3000 (May 12, 2013)

Great news Phoenix :banana:

*Phoenix voters pass Prop. 104 transit tax
*










Phoenix voters approved a major boost in transportation funding for new light rail lines, bus expansion and street improvements over the next several decades in Tuesday's election.

Unofficial returns for Proposition 104 show 55 percent of voters supporting the initiative with 45 percent voting against it.

The city’s 0.4 percent sales tax for transit will increase to 0.7 percent for transportation, beginning Jan. 1 and lasting 35 years. The sales tax is the foundation of a $31.5 billion plan that will be funded by a variety of sources including federal grants and fares.

More at: http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2015/08/25/phoenix-elections-transit-results-prop104/32283455/


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## bighomey3000 (May 12, 2013)

Hopefully these timeframes can be accelerated now...


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## Pink Jazz (May 12, 2015)

I wonder how will Valley Metro differentiate its light rail lines. Would they use colors, letters, numbers, or something else?

If colors are chosen, IMO the existing route should be the *Red Line*, since red is the first color that most transit agencies use. Since the line serves Melrose (an up and coming gay community), I hope they don't call it the *Pink Line*, since that would be promoting gay stereotypes and could potentially be offensive to some gays. The *Pink Line* designation IMO is best reserved for a line that would serve Ahwatukee/Chandler/Gilbert/East Mesa via Chandler Blvd/Williams Field Road/Power Road. Since that area is mostly politically conservative (although a bit more moderate near the west end), there is probably a lower than average gay population along those corridors. The Chandler/Williams Field corridor has been identified as a potential high capacity transit corridor in the past, and I think combining it with the Power corridor would make a line that would be popular with mall shoppers due to connecting three major malls (Chandler Fashion Center, SanTan Village, and Superstition Springs Center).

If letters are chosen, I think it should be known as the "M" Line, but should still be shown as red on maps. I chose "M" because it would stand for four different destinations or streets along the line: Metrocenter, Melrose, Mesa, and Main.


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

Newly opened *Country Club Station* in Mesa, AZ









https://www.facebook.com/valleymetr...89071653185/10153531625783186/?type=1&theater


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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)

Why is there no seating under the shaded area?


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## Pink Jazz (May 12, 2015)

Just as an update to my dream system, I have rerouted my *Orange Line* to connect to the *Blue Line* at Westgate, as well as to better serve Downtown Peoria. Come see the complete system here:
http://future.wikia.com/wiki/Valley_Metro_(by_Andros_1337)


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

OK, Phoenix, congratulations with opening of LRT extension to 19th Ave/Dunlap stop:cheers::cheers::banana::banana: Updated map on urbanrail.net:
http://www.urbanrail.net/am/phoenix/phoenix.htm


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## prageethSL (May 5, 2013)

*Northwest Extension opens in Phoenix*



> The first phase of Valley Metro’s Northwest Extension opened on March 19 with a day of free travel across the Phoenix light rail network.
> The 5·2 km extension runs north along 19th Avenue from Montebello Avenue to Dunlap Avenue, with intermediate stops at Glendale Avenue and Northern Avenue. Work on the $327m project began in January 2013 and construction was carried out by a joint venture of Sundt and Stacy & Witbeck. Ridership on the extension is expected to be 5 000 passengers/day.
> A second phase of the Northwest Extension would take the line to Metrocenter Mall by 2026. The local authorities envisage six further extensions of the light rail network, which would bring it to 106 route-km by 2034.


http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/urban/single-view/view/northwest-extension-opens-in-phoenix.html


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## Pink Jazz (May 12, 2015)

Going back to the subject of my dream light rail system, note that I did consider a third yard for the *Pink* and *Purple* Lines along Power Road in either Gilbert or east Mesa, however, I decided against it due to how far the west end of the *Purple Line *would be from the yard, thus resulting in long non-revenue deadheads, which would be a nightmare for rail operators whose last trip of the day was a westbound *Purple Line *trip. Since the *Pink* and *Purple *Lines would be interlined in my system, they have to be based at the same yard, thus I decided for them to be based at the Tempe yard along with the *Green*, *Orange*, and *Brown* Lines due to being a fairly central location for both the *Pink *and *Purple* Lines.

Again, with a system as extensive as my dream system, I don't think the existing yard in Phoenix alone can handle the entire system, so I added a yard in Tempe for the *Green*, *Pink*, *Purple*, *Brown*, and *Orange* Lines.


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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)

*4th Quarter 2015 Daily Ridership numbers for Phoenix*

*Light Rail *
Phoenix / Valley Metro Rail, Inc. - 47,900 (2015) : 7.76%

*Bus Ridership*
Phoenix / City of Phoenix PTD - 126,700 (2015) : -7.25%
Phoenix / Valley Metro - 58,700 (2015) : -5.61%


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## Pink Jazz (May 12, 2015)

For my dream light rail system, I am considering adding another line to my system between ASU West and Paradise Valley Mall. The line would be interlined with the *Silver Line* at Paradise Valley Mall. Colors that I am considering for the line are either *Aqua *or *Turquoise*. Any other suggestions?


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## Tågälskaren (May 9, 2005)

By *CNN*


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## Tågälskaren (May 9, 2005)

*Tempe seeks to boost appeal of planned streetcars, add public art at stops*

The vision for Tempe's $177 million proposed downtown streetcar line includes hybrid cars that use batteries to avoid overhead wires on parts of the route along Mill and Ash avenues[...]


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

They need to expand the system to Scottsdale


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## Pink Jazz (May 12, 2015)

Suburbanist said:


> They need to expand the system to Scottsdale


Agreed. My dream light rail system has the Brown Line going into Scottsdale.


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## Tågälskaren (May 9, 2005)

*Phoenix, Valley Metro Ask For $704M To Complete Light Rail Extension*

The city of Phoenix and Valley Metro have formally submitted a funding request to the Federal Transit Administration to complete the South Central Light Rail Extension[...]


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## Tågälskaren (May 9, 2005)

*Will Phoenix's first light-rail extension revitalize 19th Avenue?
*
Phoenix’s first light-rail extension is anchoring a new vision for the city's north-central neighborhoods along 19th Avenue, where community leaders want to improve safety and revitalize an area they're calling "19 North."[...]


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## IsaanUSA (Jan 14, 2013)

Suburbanist said:


> They need to expand the system to Scottsdale


Would Scottsdale residents use public transportation?


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

IsaanUSA said:


> Would Scottsdale residents use public transportation?


Even if they don't, the area has a lot of service and lower-paid jobs people from elsewhere need to commute to!


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## Tågälskaren (May 9, 2005)

*Look of new light rail stations to be discussed by Mesa Design Review Board
*
A review of future light rail stations on .64 acres at 1235 E. Main St. and on 3.11 acres at 1859 E. Main St. will be discussed at the 4:30 p.m. Tuesday. Sept. 13, meeting of the Mesa Design Review Board in the lower level council chambers, 57 E. First St. The agenda is at http://apps.mesaaz.gov/meetingarchive/meetings?body=DRB[...]


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## Pink Jazz (May 12, 2015)

IsaanUSA said:


> Would Scottsdale residents use public transportation?


The 72 is one of the busiest bus routes operated by the First Transit-RPTA operation in the East Valley. As for what percentage of riders are Scottsdale residents is unknown, but the ridership speaks for itself. A light rail line along Scottsdale/Rural Road would alleviate overcrowding on the 72.


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## Tågälskaren (May 9, 2005)

*Mesa light-rail extension work delayed until October*

Work on the the $153 million, 1.9-mile extension from Mesa Drive to Gilbert Road was supposed to begin in August[...]









A rendering of the planned Gilbert Road light rail station in Mesa.
Source: http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...xtension-work-delayed-until-october/90266036/


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## Pink Jazz (May 12, 2015)

According to this article:
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/...or-wants-to-connect-new-streetcar-system.html

Tempe Mayor Mark Mitchell wants to extend the Tempe Streetcar (the *Green Line* in my dream system) to Sloan Park in Mesa. Mesa Mayor John Giles is open to the idea, however, funding is currently unavailable for such an extension.


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

In spring 2017, construction will begin on an infill light-rail station at 50th Street & Washington. This is between 44th/Washington (airport) and Priest Drive/Washington (Tempe).










http://www.azfamily.com/story/33280959/new-light-rail-station-to-serve-riders-with-disabilities


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/urban/single-view/view/valley-metro-extension-groundbreaking.html
> 
> *Valley Metro extension groundbreaking*
> 19 Oct 2016
> ...


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## zaphod (Dec 8, 2005)

What are the densest employment and residential nodes in the Phoenix area not currently served by light rail? I think the one line that's been built does a really job reaching all of them. Scottsdale is the last "big" place in the metro I can think of to be left out.

Phoenix is so sprawling yet at the same time it is a giant grid and the streets typically connect, so in a way I think the right kind of transit could be workable in many parts of the metro since the most important thing is a rider having a direct walk to and from their stop to their home/office/destination.


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## Pink Jazz (May 12, 2015)

zaphod said:


> What are the densest employment and residential nodes in the Phoenix area not currently served by light rail? I think the one line that's been built does a really job reaching all of them. Scottsdale is the last "big" place in the metro I can think of to be left out.
> 
> Phoenix is so sprawling yet at the same time it is a giant grid and the streets typically connect, so in a way I think the right kind of transit could be workable in many parts of the metro since the most important thing is a rider having a direct walk to and from their stop to their home/office/destination.


Probably Downtown Chandler and Downtown Glendale. More mall connections would be good too, such as Chandler Fashion Center, Superstition Springs Center, SanTan Village, Westgate, and Arrowhead Towne Center.


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

"*Supersized buses arrive in Phoenix*"

https://www.phoenix.gov/news/publictransit/1598


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## Tågälskaren (May 9, 2005)

*Phoenix South Central Light Rail Extension To Be Completed By 2023
* _The light rail for South Phoenix has moved another step closer. The rail extension is on track to be completed by 2023[...]_


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## Tågälskaren (May 9, 2005)

*Phoenix Light-Rail Extension Clears Hurdle*

_Phoenix LRT Extension Clears Environmental Hurdle
The Federal Transit Administration this week gave its stamp of environmental approval to the Valley Metro South Central light-rail expansion project in Phoenix, KJZZ reports[...]_


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

From Metro Report

http://www.metro-report.com/news/ne...view/tempe-streetcar-contractor-selected.html

*Tempe Streetcar contractor selected*
26 Jan 2017










USA: Valley Metro has approved the main construction contract for the Tempe Streetcar project, selecting Stacy & Witbeck as the contractor. Work is expected to begin later this year.

In late 2016 Valley Metro selected Stantec Consulting Services to undertake design work. The 4·8 km route will link Marina Heights with the Dorsey/Apache Boulevard station on the light metro line. There will be 14 stops, and opening is envisaged in 2020

...


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## Arizoner (Jan 27, 2017)

Woonsocket54 said:


> "*Supersized buses arrive in Phoenix*"
> 
> https://www.phoenix.gov/news/publictransit/1598


They should add frequency first, I saw routes with 30 mins frequency with supersize bus. Is that ridiculous? Plz at least make frequency below 15 mins then think about larger bus


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## Arizoner (Jan 27, 2017)

dimlys1994 said:


> From Metro Report
> 
> http://www.metro-report.com/news/ne...view/tempe-streetcar-contractor-selected.html
> 
> ...


The route seems useless. Most streetcar stations are already covered by Orbit bus and ASU flash bus. It would be positive if it goes down mills ave


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## ssiguy2 (Feb 19, 2005)

Bizarre that a city of 4 million is getting it's first articulated bus.


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## Pink Jazz (May 12, 2015)

ssiguy2 said:


> Bizarre that a city of 4 million is getting it's first articulated bus.


Actually, the first articulated buses (MAN/AM General SG-220s) were purchased in 1979 by the City of Phoenix. These operated until 1998, but were replaced by 40-foot buses due to the fact that there were no LNG-powered articulated buses available at the time (all bus purchases at the time were required to be CNG or LNG). 

It wasn't until 2004 when the next order of articulated buses (New Flyer D60LFs) were made (also by the City of Phoenix), since a change an Arizona state law allowed the purchase of ultra-low sulfur diesel buses as an acceptable fuel for transit buses. These buses are still in operation today.

Other articulated buses in the fleet include Valley Metro RPTA's 2006 NABI 60-LFW CNG buses operating in the East Valley, the City of Phoenix's 2007 and 2008 New Flyer D60LFs, Valley Metro RPTA's 2008 New Flyer D62LFAs operating in the East Valley (mostly on express routes and formerly on the LINK), the City of Tempe's 2011 New Flyer DE60LFRs (operating in the East Valley for Valley Metro RPTA), the City of Phoenix's 2016 New Flyer XD60s and XN60s (the latter operating on the RAPID), and Valley Metro RPTA's 2017 New Flyer XN60s operating in the East Valley.


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## IsaanUSA (Jan 14, 2013)

Pink Jazz said:


> Actually, the first articulated buses ...


So what was the point of the news article then? Were they just looking for a sensational way to say "City spends 23 million on 28 new buses"?


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## Pink Jazz (May 12, 2015)

IsaanUSA said:


> So what was the point of the news article then? Were they just looking for a sensational way to say "City spends 23 million on 28 new buses"?


Just to let the public know they are getting brand new buses and that the city is investing in their transit fleet. BTW these are the New Flyer XD60s (diesel) and XN60s (CNG). The XD60s will replace the 2004 New Flyer D60LFs, while the XN60s for the RAPID will replace some of the 2003 NABI 45C-LFW LNG buses.


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## N830MH (Jun 26, 2015)

*Tempe Streetcar*

http://kjzz.org/content/576298/competition-storm-recovery-could-boost-cost-tempe-streetcar

https://www.docdroid.net/XoAF52R/2348432912062017093249287.pdf

Tempe Streetcar News.

http://documents.tempe.gov/sirepub/mtgviewer.aspx?meetid=1300&doctype=AGENDA


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## N830MH (Jun 26, 2015)

*Phoenix light rail approaches ninth birthday with extensions coming soon*

*Phoenix light rail approaches ninth birthday with extensions coming soon*




> Last month, Phoenix City Council approved plans for changes to the light rail stations and tracks. The plan will add track along Washington Street between First and Central Avenues. Currently, there are no tracks between the two streets along Washington, although there are tracks running east and west from First Avenue and east from Central Avenue.


https://downtowndevil.com/2017/12/0...s-ninth-birthday-with-extensions-coming-soon/

Let the speculation begin!


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

"*Valley Metro receives rail for Gilbert Road light-rail extension*"

http://www.progressiverailroading.c...-for-Gilbert-Road-light-rail-extension--53703


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## N830MH (Jun 26, 2015)

Woonsocket54 said:


> "*Valley Metro receives rail for Gilbert Road light-rail extension*"
> 
> http://www.progressiverailroading.c...-for-Gilbert-Road-light-rail-extension--53703


Good! it's still ongoing construction. They should be done in 2019 or 2020 during at that time.


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

In the Phoenix area, bus ridership is falling off a cliff.










https://twitter.com/MarketUrbanism/status/967891283787370497


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## N830MH (Jun 26, 2015)

Woonsocket54 said:


> "*Supersized buses arrive in Phoenix*"
> 
> https://www.phoenix.gov/news/publictransit/1598


I saw supersized bus and I rode on supersized bus before. They already put revenue service on routes 27, 19, 29, 50, or etc. I am not quite sure for which the bus routes.


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## IsaanUSA (Jan 14, 2013)

Woonsocket54 said:


> In the Phoenix area, bus ridership is falling off a cliff.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A few percent a year is a cliff?


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

IsaanUSA said:


> A few percent a year is a cliff?


Yes -- for a metro area that is growing in population several percent per year.


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