# Which city owns the most famous sports institution in the world?



## birminghamculture (Nov 1, 2002)

Umm Robinho V Rooney - that will be an interesting match, I know who I would take though. the latter ...


----------



## SE9 (Apr 26, 2005)

^^ the desicion is made easier as Wayne Rooney is younger!


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

AcesHigh said:


> the only reason its famous its because it was breeding ground for Godzilla eggs. I had never heard about Madison Square Garden before that movie. And even after it I didnt knew it was a basketball stadium.



Ha ha...same here....when watching that film I thought MSG was a huge greenhouse 


I know know it is an arena though


----------



## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

The thing about Manu that I know is that in the Moment the Glazors took over,the club was transformed from the richest in the world to the club with the highest debt in the world.That is the case because Glazor senior financed the takeover NOT by his own money but by credits given from american banks.Manu has now debts of around 300million pounds!!
That happens if you cant keep your shares together.Their fault.
Glazor senior already announced that the club will have a limit of around 20million or so annually to invest in new players.Thats not much if you consider what the club has invested in Players like Nistelrooy or Rooney.
nevertheless lets see and wait what happens.
all I can say is that in Germany the premiership doesnt play a big role.Real is the only international club that gets big attention here aswell as in most other european countries.
and about the argument that Manu is the most famous club in Africa:Nonsense
I have most of my family there so I know.
It depens on which country actually.Of course Manu is more famous in former british colonies like for example Nigeria.But that doesnt apply to the whole of Africa.


----------



## Sitback (Nov 1, 2004)

Just a comment on the dude who said Man United don't spend big bucks like Real Madrid. Yes they do if they have to, they spent £30 Million on Rooney and £30 Million on Rio Ferdinand.


----------



## JDRS (Feb 8, 2004)

Peshu said:


> ^ I still disagree.But if it were so it'd obviously be for the money.But what will happen if Abramovich decided to pull his millions away from Chelsea?Or Glazer with United?Not a good situation to be in.


Actually I'm very certain that isn't going to happen. Abramovich has repeatedly said how he will not leave and take his millions and he's made some heavy investments. There's no way he'll walk away at this point. I think alot of players would see Chelsea as a good place to go now.


----------



## birminghamculture (Nov 1, 2002)

Manchester United have the most supporters in the world for any team - I think that means at this very moment its the most famous sports club. The difference is. In European countires they show Premiership football all the time, but because there is so many historical and good clubs Manchester United are only on TV roughly 8-9 times a season live. Real Madrid have rights to show every game and the fixtures are organised so that Barcelona and Madrid both play at different times. In England you cant do that. Theres to many teams that people want to watch.

For instance Manchester City V Everton attracted 221m viewers in China alone last season. Now that says something about the depth of football in England and how many people watch it around the world.


----------



## Sitback (Nov 1, 2004)

I remember watching the FA Cup final between Arsenal and United and it cut to screen shots of crowds all around the world watching the match. Massive crowds in Korea, Mexico, China, New York, Australia if I remember correctly... All with their Arsenal or United tops on.


----------



## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

birminghamculture said:


> In European countires they show Premiership football all the time, but because there is so many historical and good clubs Manchester United are only on TV roughly 8-9 times a season live.


Dont know about which european countries you are talking about, but here in Germany you would have quite a hard time to watch the premier league.
There is a show once a week on DSF(Sports-channel)that shows some games of the european leagues ,but thats about it.
and the FA cup is tottally unknown here actually.


----------



## SE9 (Apr 26, 2005)

Checker said:


> and about the argument that Manu is the most famous club in Africa:Nonsense
> I have most of my family there so I know.
> It depens on which country actually.Of course Manu is more famous in former british colonies like for example Nigeria.But that doesnt apply to the whole of Africa.


That statement is nonsense too. I have most of my family there too, and they would argue otherwise, as most of them are Man Utd fans (some of them Arsenal), so I would know too... oh and I've lived there (Nairobi)

Oh and btw, Man Utd is just as famous in Mozambique (former Portuguese colony) as they are in say Kenya (former British colony)


----------



## SE9 (Apr 26, 2005)

For example, here is a news report earlier this year:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4171973.stm 

Three Somali football fans have died after a grenade was thrown into the cinema where they were watching a match between *Manchester United and Chelsea.*

It is not clear why the hand grenade was thrown - some reports say it followed an argument between rival fans, others blame local residents.

*English and Italian football are hugely popular among young Somalis*.

Local makeshift cinemas charge about 30 US cents to fans to watch games broadcast live on satellite television.

The victims were among 160 fans watching the *Carling Cup* semi-final first leg between the two English giants at a cinema in the Bulo Hubey district in the south of the captial, Mogadishu. 

* and the Carling Cup is the smallest of all cup competitions here!


----------



## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

^actually I dont care really.Premiership doesnt intrest me.I watch Bundesliga.But most of my fam in Cameroon watch french leagues sometimes maybe english ,german or spanish leagues.
dont know really what point you wanna make here.But if you think that ManU is the biggest club in the whole of Africa you are simply put:wrong


----------



## SE9 (Apr 26, 2005)

Checker said:


> ^actually I dont care really.Premiership doesnt intrest me.I watch Bundesliga.But most of my fam in Cameroon watch french leagues sometimes maybe english ,german or spanish leagues.
> dont know really what point you wanna make here.But if you think that ManU is the biggest club in the whole of Africa you are simply put:wrong


OK then Ill summarize an article 4 you, and bullet point the main points of it:

An Interview with a Football Observer Based in *Africa*

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/2602123.stm 



_his main points:_



> The record-breaking former Southampton winger is proof that *English Premiership is the widest spoken language in football*.


> Paine hosts *Africa's biggest football show* on M-Net Sports, where the appetite for English Premiership football is almost *insatiable*.


> Although Paine is based in South Africa, the network beams *English top-flight football* throughout the *continent*.


> "We go out to *42 countries*, out as far as *Saudi Arabia and the Middle East*," says Paine who uses BBC Sport Online to keep his finger on the pulse of the Premiership.


> "It's colossal. There's a massive viewership for the Premiership, *it's the biggest following sports-wise in Africa.*"


> "The popularity of English football might also be helped by the number of African players playing in the Premiership.


> "Last *weekend*, for example, we had *five* live matches, plus the Manchester City versus Spurs match on Monday evening.


----------



## birminghamculture (Nov 1, 2002)

He He - that will shut him up :applause:


----------



## SE9 (Apr 26, 2005)

:cheers: lol yup 4 sure


----------



## Mac (Apr 7, 2005)

Always pisses me off when some1 will try and make their own personal dislike/opinion as representitve for a whole country, or in this case continenant..

I.E......i dont like English football, therefore no one in Africa likes it either, because i have personally spoken to everyone and asked them.

Some people just will not accept the truth no matter what the facts say.

Just shows up their bigotry and dislike of a country.

Time and time again, financial institutions and reports from the world over have shown the Premier League to be the biggest and richest league in the world.
In 2004-05 it was worth 1.9 billion Euros, compare that to the next biggest Italy at 1.2 billion.......over 50% bigger

And the same reports also show Manchester United as the single biggest sports club in the world, not just football but ANY sport.

It has the biggest turnover,fan base and global recognition....facts proven by independant reports.


----------



## AcesHigh (Feb 20, 2003)

birminghamculture said:


> Manchester United have the most supporters in the world for any team - I think that means at this very moment its the most famous sports club. The difference is. In European countires they show Premiership football all the time, but because there is so many historical and good clubs Manchester United are only on TV roughly 8-9 times a season live. Real Madrid have rights to show every game and the fixtures are organised so that Barcelona and Madrid both play at different times. In England you cant do that. Theres to many teams that people want to watch.
> 
> For instance Manchester City V Everton attracted 221m viewers in China alone last season. Now that says something about the depth of football in England and how many people watch it around the world.


i think it says a lot about British Football power of merchandise and british media and former colonial countries.


----------



## #GORAN (Mar 13, 2005)

Sydney ..


----------



## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

SE9 said:


> OK then Ill summarize an article 4 you, and bullet point the main points of it:
> 
> An Interview with a Football Observer Based in *Africa*
> 
> ...



I checked your link.Its about an Ex-premiership player who hosts a football show in south Africa.Great!All the claims made are his quotes.Unfortunately there is no proof (viewing statistics or something) that back these claims whatsoever.
Maybe the premiership is the most whatched in Africa.But you know what?As I said before I wouldnt care.


----------



## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

birminghamculture said:


> He He - that will shut him up :applause:


Haha errm yeah.youre the funny dude right?


----------



## Sitback (Nov 1, 2004)

Why did Goran just post a picture of Sydney? Bloody weirdo.


----------



## ReddAlert (Nov 4, 2004)

hngcm said:


> Yankees doesn't even come close to the popularity of Real Madrid/Manchester United/Liverpool.



thats a bit of a stretch. 

Yes, those soccer teams are popular...but arguably almost the entire North American continent is familiar with the Yankees. The Japanese advertise in Yankee Stadium...their games are viewed in Japan I believe. Their games are also shown in other countries as well. When you ask a foreigner about baseball...they will almost 9/10 times tell you about the New York Yankees. I could also argue the Yankees logo is more well known than the soccer coat of arm things. 

Did you know that the Yankees are as old as Real Madrid? The Yankees have had just as many well known stars as a European soccer club. Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantle, Yogi Berra, Roger Maris, Reggie Jackson, Mattingly are all very well known names. Even current players are huge stars...such as Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, Gary Sheffield, Mariano Rivera, Randy Johnson..etc. Hideki Matsui is obviosly a huge star in Japan. Go to a Yankees game and you will always see a huge number of Japnese media people following him around. 

Also, we are talking about the New York Yankees. New York. New York is a city more well known than Madrid, Liverpool, or Manchester (waits for EarlyBird2 to come in).


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

NY may be more well known than Manchester Madrid and Liverpool....but still, Madrid Liverpool FC and Man Utd are more known than the Yankees.

Yeah in Japan its big...because Baseball is big in Japan also.

The legendary players you named...

'Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantle, Yogi Berra, Roger Maris, Reggie Jackson'

I actually know all of them but Roger Maris....but I wouldnt be able to tell you their stats or what they look like...accept for Babe Ruth...I know what he looks like.

Live Baseball is showin in the UK an Ch5.

Back to the fame...

This is the winner here...









A gold David Beckham statue in a Thai Temple...It replaced a statue of an Angel.

In WC 2002 a japanese woman broke into DBs hotel room and licked his toilet bowl









Before Peshu come in and speaks...this was when Beckham played for Man Utd

http://www.rediff.com/sports/2003/jun/13bec.htm

_His fans are critical to negotiations to lure the 28-year-old England captain away from Manchester United to European clubs Barcelona and Real Madrid, his celebrity treasured nearly as much as his passes.

The two clubs lag their British rivals in developing business in Asia. Landing a player who can generate a Beatles-like reception in Japan -- the world's second-richest economy -- would be a quick-fix way of reversing that._


----------



## JDRS (Feb 8, 2004)

Reddalert the Yankees may be more well known in Japan and N. America but I can assure you that almost everywhere else Real Madrid, Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal will be more well known. So therefore considering Japan and N. America is not the majority of the world I would say one of the football teams above are better known worldwide.


----------



## ReddAlert (Nov 4, 2004)

you guys just cant ever accept the fact that something American is more well known than a European thing.  



The thing about the New York Yankees is that they are the NEW YORK Yankees. New York is in alot more movies than Liverpool or Madrid..the Yankees are usually mentioned in any of these movies. The Yankees also talked about in alot of popular tv shows..including Seinfeld. The Yankee hat is worn by alot of celebrities, musicians, and even normal people. Im sure the average European who watches MTV or reads a weekly celebrity magazine sees tons of refrences to American sports. 50 Cent, a NY rapper, is huge in the UK. Get Rich or die trying went double plantinum over in the UK. Im sure the average young Brit has seen pictures of him. He usually wears his Yankees cap. Its a familiar logo...more familiar than any European logo due to its simplicity. I have seen photos of people wearing the logo all over the world.

are you meaning to tell me that this isnt a familiar logo around the world?


----------



## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

Lausanne - home of the International Olympic Committee.


----------



## JDRS (Feb 8, 2004)

The logo is very famous but most people wear it out of fashion here in the UK and I asked my mates what they thought it meant and they didn't know it was anything to do with the New York Yankees. I can accept that something American is more well known but the Yankees simply arent as well known *worldwide* as Real Madrid or Manchester United. I can't think of a time I've heard references to the Yankees in a movie or tv show from America I've watched. 50 Cent is well known but believe me the logo does not correspond to the Yankees to most Brits and I'm sure most people worldwide.


----------



## londonindyboy (Jul 24, 2005)

MANCHSTER UNITED


----------



## LosAngelesSportsFan (Oct 20, 2004)

Peshu said:


> I think you mean the Celtics were to basketball what the Yankees are to baseball.From a nostalgic point of view the Celtics are one of the greats.But fact is that they haven't really dominated the N.B.A for the last few decades.
> So they are probably more of a hasbeen then anything else.


The LA Lakers are the greatest franchise in American Sports. Since 1980, the Lakers have won 8 championships, way more than any other American franchise. The Lakers have a winning record on the Road, i believe the only team in sports history to make that claim. the Franchise has 14 championships in 55 years, 29 finals appearances, more than the rest of the western conference combined. The fnachise has had numeruos hall of famers, from Magic to Kareem, to West, to Baylor, to Kobe to Shaq, and of course, the greatest sports announcer of all time Chick Hearn (today is the third anniversary of his death  sad day in LA)etc etc etc.


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

ReddAlert said:


> you guys just cant ever accept the fact that something American is more well known than a European thing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah people wear the logo....but how many people actually know what it is?

Ive seen pictures of people wearing football shirts around the world...how many of these kids wearing yankee hats even play baseball or can name a single current player...not as many as people who can name the Liverpool Madrid or Manchester team captains.


Allegedly, maybe, so im told...etc...


----------



## great prairie (Jul 18, 2005)

Dallas Cowboys or Montreal Canadians need some lovin!


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

The Montreal Expos ya mean.

They're 10X the team the Yankees ever were.

Followed by the Devil rays


----------



## EtherealMist (Jul 26, 2005)

The Yankees are big but Manchester United is bigger. This is mostly because no other sport can come close to soccer in it's popularity. Although I have to agree the NY Yankee logo has to be the more widely known.


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

I dunno...this badge and others are very well known










Ya gotta look past the hats...

In Cairo the street markets were full of fake shirts, Man U Liverpool etc keyrings, glasses, books, pencil cases, towels, clocks....and so on and so on


----------



## great prairie (Jul 18, 2005)

eddyk said:


> The Montreal Expos ya mean.



http://www.canadiens.com/eng/index.cfm

They are the greatest pro hockey team of all time(imho). I might be a Texan but hockey is badass.

(if it isn't the Canadiens, it is the Maple Leafs)


----------



## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

ReddAlert said:


> you guys just cant ever accept the fact that something American is more well known than a European thing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dude,you've got to be realistic.There's no way that the New York yankees are as known worldwide as even the top ten soccer clubs in the world.No way.


----------



## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

LosAngelesSportsFan said:


> The LA Lakers are the greatest franchise in American Sports. Since 1980, the Lakers have won 8 championships, way more than any other American franchise. The Lakers have a winning record on the Road, i believe the only team in sports history to make that claim. the Franchise has 14 championships in 55 years, 29 finals appearances, more than the rest of the western conference combined. The fnachise has had numeruos hall of famers, from Magic to Kareem, to West, to Baylor, to Kobe to Shaq, and of course, the greatest sports announcer of all time Chick Hearn (today is the third anniversary of his death  sad day in LA)etc etc etc.



You're right dude.Perhaps the LA Lakers should have been on that list instead of the Bulls.


----------



## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

Checker said:


> The thing about Manu that I know is that in the Moment the Glazors took over,the club was transformed from the richest in the world to the club with the highest debt in the world.That is the case because Glazor senior financed the takeover NOT by his own money but by credits given from american banks.Manu has now debts of around 300million pounds!!
> That happens if you cant keep your shares together.Their fault.
> Glazor senior already announced that the club will have a limit of around 20million or so annually to invest in new players.Thats not much if you consider what the club has invested in Players like Nistelrooy or Rooney.
> nevertheless lets see and wait what happens.
> ...



:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :applause:


----------



## SE9 (Apr 26, 2005)

^^ lol, No need to applaud his last statement, I disproved his "theory" with some hard facts.



> The Japanese advertise in Yankee Stadium...their games are viewed in Japan I believe. Their games are also shown in other countries as well.


Various sponsors from around the world advertise in the Bernabeu, Old Trafford, heck even at Everton's:

Everton's recent Kits (jerseys):



















even their shirts have advertisement from the far-east^^


----------



## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

SE9 said:


> ^^ lol, No need to applaud his last statement, I disproved his "theory" with some hard facts.


So far your "hard" facts consisted of an interview from an Ex-premiership player that now hosts a football show in South africa.He claimed a few things without any proof.
If you show me some proof about the viewing figures on the whole continent.well then ok.but so far I havent seen anything.


----------



## ReddAlert (Nov 4, 2004)

to be quite honest...I didnt know what the hell Real Madrid was until Beckham started playing for them. The first soccer team is knew in Europe was Manchester United...due to him playing for that team. Believe it or not...these are the only two soccer team jerseys I see people wearing here. 

My main argument was when that guy said these teams, along with Liverpool were much, much more well known that New York Yankees. Like people have been saying..people around the world wear the Yankees logo. Sure, some dont know what it means...but I would argue that most do know that its a baseball team in New York City, which is arguably the most famous city in the world along with London and Paris. I think your average joe would know where NYC is before he knows where Liverpool, Manchester, or Milan. 

Many people dont even realize the amount of times the Yankees are mentioned in pop culture. Like I said..huge stars wear the teams merchandise. This has to count for something. The Yankees cap is a fashion. Are you telling me that if I showed a photo of the Yankee logo and the Manchester United logo to some random guy in Mexico or the Phillipines...they would say the recognized the ManU logo more? Just because a country likes a certain sport...doesnt make the teams in another country popular. Mexico, Brazil, and Argentina have their own soccer leagues...do you think they actually watch your games instead? American football is HUGE here..but I dont know shit about NFL Europe except for a few team names. 

The Yankees are well known in the U.S and Canada..as well as Mexico, Central America, and the Carribean. Tons of stars in American baseball are from these areas...the kids all look up to these numerous huge stars who grew up on the same small island. The Yankees also like I said pretty well known in Japan and South Korea. I wouldnt doubt if they were also well known in South America..especially Venezuela--which happens to be the home of 2005 Home Run Derby champion Bobby Abreau. And I figure Europeans are prettty well aware of the team...due to their vast knowledge about everything.


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

The Hat is famous not the team.


youre last post went a little off track...More people know where NY is than Manchester or Milan....so?

As said before...they may wear the hat...but what are the odds they actually know what that little logo is on top of it?

I myself have a NY yankees hat...and I hate baseball...I just got it because it was €2 in a market in spain.
I also have a Real Madrid top.
No manchester stuff though...being a Liverpool fan...who I would definately say are the 2nd/3rd most known football team in the world.


----------



## koskaar (Jul 31, 2004)

ReddAlert said:


> Mexico, Brazil, and Argentina have their own soccer leagues...do you think they actually watch your games instead? American football is HUGE here..but I dont know shit about NFL Europe except for a few team names.


Well, the average European knows nothing about NFL Europe... 

South Americans do follow European leagues, mainly because nearly all of their best players play here.


----------



## Sitback (Nov 1, 2004)

People wear a New York Yanks hat just for the fashion and not even support the team. Either way, I hardly ever see anyone wear a New York Yankies hat ever anywhere in Europe, only on the very odd occasion.

I also think that the argument that the Yanks would be more famous as a matter of location as being stupid aswell. We're talking about the clubs here only.


----------



## SE9 (Apr 26, 2005)

Peshu said:


> One thing Charlton,Best and Maradona have in common,is that they all agree that Di Stefano was the greatest player of all time.I wouldn't give an opinion on this as it was a different era.Plus t.v quality back in those days was terrible.But all Madrid fans can thank Di Stefano for having made Real the greatest and most famous club in the world.The club where all of the biggest stars would take a pay cut to play for.As Roberto Carlos has said.You can only claim to be a real super star if you have had the previlege of having played for them.


http://www.fifa.com/events/playergala/index_E_2000.html
*

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/news/2000/12/11/pele_maradona/ 

^^ looks like Maradonna didnt choose Pele as one of the greatest because he was jealous! 


FIFA PLAYER of the CENTURY (20th Century)*

1. Pele (Brasil)

2. Maradona (Argentina)

3. Eusabio (Portugal)


----------



## ReddAlert (Nov 4, 2004)

eddyk said:


> The Hat is famous not the team.
> 
> 
> youre last post went a little off track...More people know where NY is than Manchester or Milan....so?
> ...



NYC is much more famous...therfore its sporting teams are more famous. Its a much larger market than Manchester or Liverpool. You will hear or know more about what happens in NYC. Sure, in Europe these teams are popular..but do you really think people in Australia, China, Japan, India, Russia..etc. know about a soccer team in a medium sized city halfway across the globe? The chance for knowing about the Yankees would be greater because its in one of the main cities in the world and the U.S...a country with more influence than any other.


----------



## SE9 (Apr 26, 2005)

ReddAlert said:


> Sure, in Europe these teams are popular..but do you really think people in Australia, China, Japan, India, Russia..etc. know about a soccer team in a medium sized city halfway across the globe?


lol yep!.. You see, Football is the most popular sport in the world, and many popular football teams come from small cities (Juventus - Turin etc.) This does not affect its worldwide fanbase. 

Just because the Yankees come from New York, it does not mean that their global fanbase is ensured. Of the countries you mentioned above, football is more popular than baseball. 

Football is Russia's premier sport lol, CSKA Moscow/ Spartak Moscow etc.
The Japanese and Australians also have a large following of it.


----------



## Sitback (Nov 1, 2004)

ReddAlert said:


> Mexico, Brazil, and Argentina have their own soccer leagues...do you think they actually watch your games instead? American football is HUGE here..but I dont know shit about NFL Europe except for a few team names.


Without a shadow of doubt yes they do. With the majority of the Argentinian, Brazilian and many other S.American counties international players playing in Europe then YES!

Seriously. I'm reading your posts and I get this impression you seem to think the world doesn't exsist outside the states. It's simple Real Madrid and United are immensly more famous then the Yanks. Deal with it.


----------



## Sitback (Nov 1, 2004)

ReddAlert said:


> NYC is much more famous...therfore its sporting teams are more famous. Its a much larger market than Manchester or Liverpool. You will hear or know more about what happens in NYC. Sure, in Europe these teams are popular..but do you really think people in Australia, China, Japan, India, Russia..etc. know about a soccer team in a medium sized city halfway across the globe? The chance for knowing about the Yankees would be greater because its in one of the main cities in the world and the U.S...a country with more influence than any other.



You have got to have the most stupid logic I have ever known.


----------



## ReddAlert (Nov 4, 2004)

I dont agree that Japan and Australia are soccer dominated countries..the same with Russia. 

Mexico is soccer dominated...but do you think the people there watch Manchester United games? I am not saying these people are all Yankees fans. I am saying that probally more people in Mexico have heard of the Yankees than Juevntus or AC Milan. The only reason that Manchester United or Real Madrid are as popular globally is David Beckham. I will agree that he is probally the biggest sports star in the world. 

This reallly is a stupid discussion. How are we supposed to know what team is more well known? My argument makes more sense..due to New Yorks immense influence around the globe. Come to think of it...I have no idea what teams play in London, Paris, Berlin, Moscow, Rome, Frankfurt..etc.


----------



## ReddAlert (Nov 4, 2004)

Sitback said:


> Without a shadow of doubt yes they do. With the majority of the Argentinian, Brazilian and many other S.American counties international players playing in Europe then YES!
> 
> Seriously. I'm reading your posts and I get this impression you seem to think the world doesn't exsist outside the states. It's simple Real Madrid and United are immensly more famous then the Yanks. Deal with it.



DO PEOPLE IN BRAZIL AND ARGENTINA WATCH YOUR GAMES ON A REGULAR BASIS? NO! They watch their own damn games idiot.


----------



## ReddAlert (Nov 4, 2004)

Christ you Europeans are so goddamn arrogant. You think you excel at everything across the globe. Movies, tv, cars, special forces, sports, art, skylines...etc. The arrogance is ridicolous....so ridicolous that people were truthfully saying the London skyline is much bigger and better than the L.A. skyline.


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

Still you have to admit...the NY is more famous so thus the team must be more famous is a pretty stupid logic to go by.


How Dare Manchester have something bigger than NY...how dare it.


----------



## SE9 (Apr 26, 2005)

ReddAlert said:


> I dont agree that Japan and Australia are soccer dominated countries..the same with Russia.
> 
> Mexico is soccer dominated...but do you think the people there watch Manchester United games? I am not saying these people are all Yankees fans. I am saying that probally more people in Mexico have heard of the Yankees than Juevntus or AC Milan. The only reason that Manchester United or Real Madrid are as popular globally is David Beckham. I will agree that he is probally the biggest sports star in the world.
> 
> This reallly is a stupid discussion. How are we supposed to know what team is more well known? My argument makes more sense..due to New Yorks immense influence around the globe. Come to think of it...I have no idea what teams play in London, Paris, Berlin, Moscow, Rome, Frankfurt..etc.


Africa and the Middle East is football-dominated, and yes they do watch European football.

The Australians like a whole range of sports (Aussie Rules, Cricket, Rugby etc.) and football is one of them. 

I thought that Japan & the far East was football crazy, but after the 2002 World Cup I was sure!


----------



## great prairie (Jul 18, 2005)

Sitback said:


> It's simple Real Madrid and United are immensly more famous then the Yanks. Deal with it.


immensely more famous is off, as an America I would believe the yankees are popular worldwide and are very close to those two(most likely not more popular). Picking just one is crazy. You come off as arrgoant and clueless saying immensely. 

Also this board is retarded this question is completely opinion and everyone both Americans and Europeans act like there has to be a definite answer(there isn't) and it fucks up what could be a cool discussion.


----------



## Sitback (Nov 1, 2004)

ReddAlert said:


> Christ you Europeans are so goddamn arrogant. You think you excel at everything across the globe. Movies, tv, cars, special forces, sports, art, skylines...etc. The arrogance is ridicolous....so ridicolous that people were truthfully saying the London skyline is much bigger and better than the L.A. skyline.


You're so funny. PS people didn't argue that London's skyline is bigger, no way, just denser which it quite clearly is.

Back to the subject.

Yeah man New York is sooooo famous that must mean any sports institution with 'New York' in the name must be more famous then the biggest sports club in the world who play by FAR the most popular sport in the world.

Good logic matey well done you're really clever.


----------



## Sitback (Nov 1, 2004)

ReddAlert said:


> DO PEOPLE IN BRAZIL AND ARGENTINA WATCH YOUR GAMES ON A REGULAR BASIS? NO! They watch their own damn games idiot.


Yes actually, they do. And is Asia and in Africa.

In fact sometimes when I want to watch a game of Arsenals on television when it's not been shown on UK television because they are playing a different game. I have to go down to the pub and watch Arsenal play on Asian tv networks, South American networks etc, etc.


----------



## Sitback (Nov 1, 2004)

:cheers:


great prairie said:


> immensely more famous is off, as an America I would believe the yankees are popular worldwide and are very close to those two(most likely not more popular). Picking just one is crazy. You come off as arrgoant and clueless saying immensely.
> 
> Also this board is retarded this question is completely opinion and everyone both Americans and Europeans act like there has to be a definite answer(there isn't) and it fucks up what could be a cool discussion.


But the world is bigger then America, yes the Yankees may be big in America and sure you lot probably don't pay any attention to Soccer. So? America is 280 million compared to the worlds 6.5 billion.

The whole world loves soccer. It's the most watched sport in Asia, Europe, Africa, S.America...

Baseball? Who plays Baseball on the scale of like they do in the US? I can't think of one, I only know that Japan have some interest in it. Soccer must be what? 20 times as watched as compared to the next nearest sport whatever that may be.


----------



## ReddAlert (Nov 4, 2004)

lol...forget it.

Lets all be honest here.


Europe is the best. America fuckin sucks. Everything in Europe is better, more well known, more liked, less evil.


----------



## great prairie (Jul 18, 2005)

Sitback said:


> :cheers:
> 
> But the world is bigger then America, yes the Yankees may be big in America and sure you lot probably don't pay any attention to Soccer. So? America is 280 million compared to the worlds 6.5 billion.
> 
> ...


:|


----------



## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

ReddAlert said:


> I didnt say that it wasnt the most popular sport in the world. Its very popular in America too. When Real Madrid came to Chicago..they were followed by huge crowds and everyone loved them.
> 
> What I am saying is Real Madrid and Liverpool are not THAT more well known worldwide than the Yankees. If youll look back, you will see that I responding to an American who said NY was nowhere close...which was an overstatement. I never said the Yankees were ever more popular...if I did, than it was a typo. You cant tell me that just because everyone plays soccer that they automatically know about the European leauge teams, players, stats, stadiums...etc. You guys are acting like the Yankees are so unfamiliar team that nobody knows about. Everyone who knows anything about sports should know the Yankees...mainly because they are the most successul team in their sport, plus they play in New York City...a city with so much influence in fashion, media, pop culture, business, advertising...etc.
> 
> I could give a shit less if Real Madrid were more popular..I do give a shit when people say the Yankees are not that well known. Can we agree on this.?



Well i have to say that is a very logical post and i totally agree. :cheers:


----------



## expat_marla (Feb 22, 2005)

ReddAlert said:


> it has nothing to do with the actual sport. The Yankees have been a huge part of New Yorks history. The team has been around a long time, they have been the most successful and most notorious team in baseball, they have been stocked with Hall of Fame stars, they play in one of the most well known cities on earth, they have been refrenced in almost any NY based movie or sitcom..which there are alot, they are the object of a fashion trend that has been going on for awile...etc.
> 
> Can we not agree that they are well known around the world?


Redd, breathe 
Of course the Yankees are world reknown. I don't recall saying they weren't and if I did I certainly take it back. Where I am coming from is that Baseball in and of itself is not a WORLD sport in the way that, say, soccer is. As such, more people the world over will know of and have an affinity for teams such as ManU. Having lived most of my life in the US and now living overseas, I understand how many Americans think that the Yanks are the most well know team the world over. But sorry mate, IMHO that just aint true


----------



## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

ReddAlert said:


> Then what willl you be good at?


Cricket


----------



## ReddAlert (Nov 4, 2004)

Peshu said:


> Well i have to say that is a very logical post and i totally agree. :cheers:


thank you  

Dont worry guys..I fully understand the worlds love of soccer. I know that not everyone plays our football, basketball, or baseball.


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

I cant remember anyone saying the yankees wernt famous.

I remember...

Someone saying Man U and Madrid were far more famous than the Yankees...which I think got ReddAlert Going...

ReddAlert saying the Yankees were more famous because NY is the more famous city...which got everyone going...


----------



## ReddAlert (Nov 4, 2004)

eddyk said:


> I cant remember anyone saying the yankees wernt famous.
> 
> I remember...
> 
> ...



being in NY is a factor. If they were in Kansas City or Pittsburgh..then yeah, but being in a city like NYC can never be bad for publicity. Plus, they are the most successful team ever in our league.


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

Still...a team from little ol' Manchester is #1

Because...they were the best...in the most watched sports league in the world over the last decade.


Off Topic On Topic Question....whos is the most famous american football team?


----------



## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

eddyk said:


> I cant remember anyone saying the yankees wernt famous.
> 
> I remember...
> 
> ...



l.o.l That's exactly how it happened.Anyway let's keep this thread civilised.And ofcourse the New York Yankees are a world famous club.


----------



## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

eddyk said:


> Still...a team from little ol' Manchester is #1
> 
> Because...they were the best...in the most watched sports league in the world over the last decade.
> 
> ...



Bloody hell eddyk.Don't start again.I say Real Madrid,You say Manchester city,Redalert says the Yankees.


----------



## expat_marla (Feb 22, 2005)

eddyk said:


> Off Topic On Topic Question....whos is the most famous american football team?


Emotionally, I'll go with "DA BEARS" (anyone ever see those Saturday Night Live episodes?)


----------



## great prairie (Jul 18, 2005)

Since football is just an american sport there is no america's team(coming from a cowboys fan)

most cities/towns love their teams probably Dallas Cowboys, Pittsburgh Steelers, Green Bay Packers, Chicago Bears. That is a short list I feel bad leaving out the Eagles, 49ers, Browns, and several others.


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

Peshu said:


> Bloody hell eddyk.Don't start again.I say Real Madrid,You say Manchester city,Redalert says the Yankees.


Dont start what again :-S

It was a reply to his..Being in NY certainly adds to the fame remark.

Though Im not saying being in NT doesnt add to the fame...but come on...he sait they were more famous than Real Madrid because NY is the more famous city.

And its Manchester United who I say...Not Manchester City.


----------



## ReddAlert (Nov 4, 2004)

eddyk said:


> Off Topic On Topic Question....whos is the most famous american football team?


Probally the Dallas Cowboys. 

I also have to put my Green Bay Packers into that group. The Packers the oldest team in the NFL if I am not mistaken. They won the first two Superbowls...also were coached by one of the most famous coaches in coaching history...Vince Lombardi--whom they named the Superbowl trophy after. What makes the Packers special is that they play in a city of only 100,000 in northern Wisconsin. Season tickets have been sold out to this day since 1960! Its virtually impossible to get them. People leave them in their wills. The Packers are also famous for playing home games outside in freezing cold weather and their fans--who wear the foam cheeseheads.


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

Dan marino is the most famous american football player in the UK...Ill tell ya that much.


----------



## ReddAlert (Nov 4, 2004)

eddyk said:


> but come on...he sait they were more famous than Real Madrid because NY is the more famous city.
> .



your going to keep milking this arent ya? lol

Its NYC for godssake! Everyone knows about NYC!


oh..and a side note..

I dont like the Yankees.


----------



## great prairie (Jul 18, 2005)

eddyk said:


> Dan marino is the most famous american football player in the UK...Ill tell ya that much.


ya'll are a little behind the times according to ESPN it is Micheal Vick



> The Packers are also famous for playing home games outside in freezing cold weather and their fans--who wear the foam cheeseheads


The icebowl is considered one of the best football games ever played


----------



## pottebaum (Sep 11, 2004)

Isn't Manchester United owned by Malcolm Glazer? He lives Florida. So if you're going to refer to a city as 'owning' a sports institution, I think Palm Beach deserves the credit.


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

Shit, hes back.


----------



## ReddAlert (Nov 4, 2004)

great prairie said:


> ya'll are a little behind the times according to ESPN it is Micheal Vick
> 
> 
> 
> The icebowl is considered one of the best football games ever played



I would have loved to see the old school Packers play. I have never been to a game before...planning on going this year because it might be Brett Favres last year.


----------



## pottebaum (Sep 11, 2004)

eddyk said:


> Shit, hes back.


What did I do?


----------



## DetoX (May 12, 2004)

I think FC Barcelona may have more fans than Machester United (MU is not too much liked outsite UK for every one )

Question for Americans:










I watched "Any given sunday" last night.. and why American Football players puke in the middle of the game?


----------



## Fly Pan Am (Nov 21, 2004)

Physical Strain


----------



## Fly Pan Am (Nov 21, 2004)

Not to mentinon getting hit by a lot of those men is like being hit with a car. Now imagine taking a lot of those to the gut.


----------



## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

Well i didn't conduct the survey did i?
And sitback.Why the hell are you so shocked about the amount of fans clubs like Barcelona,Liverpool and Juventus have?They have massive followings outside of their countries.


----------



## EarlyBird (Oct 2, 2004)

Peshu said:


> Well i didn't conduct the survey did i?
> And sitback.Why the hell are you so shocked about the amount of fans clubs like Barcelona,Liverpool and Juventus have?They have massive followings outside of their countries.


Peshu, you didn't conduct the survey, no. The problem is that nobody else did either. You invented it. It's a well known fact that Manchester United have the largest club following in the world. That's why they're the most profitable in the world despite not having particularly high ticket prices or shirt prices. Second place is undoubtably the NY Yankees. I've seen United shirts in NYC and Yankees caps in Manchester to a much greater extent than those of other clubs.


----------



## NewAmsterdam (Jul 31, 2004)

Liverpool also mention the survey from Sport+Markt AG of course :lol: :


http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/a_N149398050719-1453.shtml


by the way they made a mistake in the article those 18 million are the fans they "gained" worldwide I think.


----------



## leeds2win (Aug 12, 2005)

Manchester United. Fan base in asia is pretty huge. Although so is David Beckham so Real Madrid have a big call. Liverpool, nah, gained alot of fans mainly due to winning the Champions League.

The two American Teams/Cities really dont participate in the most popular sport in the world.


----------



## NewAmsterdam (Jul 31, 2004)

Ah now I see what's wrong with the Liverpool-data : the survey is about fans in the top five European markets. Manchester United has more fans worldwide : "_more than 160 million potential followers worldwide, trailing only Real Madrid, with more than 220 million_." At least that is what Sport+Markt AG found :

http://www.sportundmarkt.de/PHP/tempE3.php?leitid=4.2.105


----------



## TexasBoi (Jan 7, 2004)

Kids in the riot said:


> no, this is football:
> 
> notice how the player is using his foot.


some of you people seriously do not know JACKSHIT about our game.


----------



## EtherealMist (Jul 26, 2005)

Peshu said:


> A survey conducted by Germanys Sport+Markt AG gives the following results on popularity concerning football clubs.The nine clubs with the most supporters worldwide are.
> 1).Real Madrid.
> 2).Barcelona.
> 3).Liverpool.
> ...


No way Man U is number 6...


----------



## unoh (Aug 13, 2005)

Arsenal


----------



## DetoX (May 12, 2004)

> No way Man U is number 6...


Thrust me.. it is possible (I`em interested in Football since birth)


----------



## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

^yes its true.Most of the non-british forumers have alredy stated that Real is the most famous club in europe.whats wrong with that?
I mean why did players like Beckham change from Manu to Real?He did it because he gets way more attention there.Or take Owen.
Real has always attracted the most famous football players around.
Its true that the FA is way ahead of other european leagues in the asian market,especially in china.But the other clubs did already notice what kind of money can be generated there and are now keeping up.
and then again china for example doesnt do any headlines in the football world.


----------



## Sitback (Nov 1, 2004)

DetoX said:


> Thrust me.. it is possible (I`em interested in Football since birth)


OH MY GOD WELL THAT SETTLES IT!!!

Don't speak again.


----------



## Sitback (Nov 1, 2004)

Checker said:


> ^yes its true.Most of the non-british forumers have alredy stated that Real is the most famous club in europe.whats wrong with that?
> I mean why did players like Beckham change from Manu to Real?He did it because he gets way more attention there.Or take Owen.
> Real has always attracted the most famous football players around.
> Its true that the FA is way ahead of other european leagues in the asian market,especially in china.But the other clubs did already notice what kind of money can be generated there and are now keeping up.
> and then again china for example doesnt do any headlines in the football world.


You have no idea what you're talking about your reasons for Beckham leaving signals that. He left because he fell out with Fergie, nothing more. He'd still be at United if it wasn't for Fergie.


----------



## DetoX (May 12, 2004)

> OH MY GOD WELL THAT SETTLES IT!!!
> 
> Don't speak again.


*Ohh yeah, You are right! .. Manchester United is the best, is the number one.. NO OTHER CLUB CAN EVEN equal to it .. it is absolutely TOP !... just grow up..*


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

Manchester United IS top though...as far as the rich list goes.

You yourself DetoX voted for Man Utd in this poll.

As for checkers comment... 'Most of the non-british forumers have alredy stated that Real is the most famous club in europe.'

Madrid 36 Votes....17 are spaniards...= 19 (7 No Locations)
Man U 53 Votes....23 are English...= 30 (6 No Locations)


----------



## Sitback (Nov 1, 2004)

I support Arsenal and despice those Manc c*nts.

I do, however. Realise they are the biggest sports club in the world with a massive global appeal. You think they are the 6th most popular club in the world, Detox? My god how funny. Juventus and Liverpool in front??? HAHAHA x1million.

But oh... I forgot you have been interested in football since your birth IT MUST BE POSSIBLE!


----------



## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

trust me that I know what Im talking about.
I think he is happy to play for Real more so than for ManU.he has already stated that he would like to end his career in Madrid if possible.so that means he has no intentions of going back whatsoever.even if Ferguson would get fired.And he can be happy to play there.There he gets more attention from world press than anywhere else probably.
And what about other great english football players?Owen plays for Real and Mcmanaman used to play for them.
As I said Real attracts the most famous players because its the most famous club.No doubt about that.I dont know what kind of problem you have with that.
even I have to admit that although Im a passionate Bundesliga fan.
Real has won far more titles than any other club in Europe.It has the biggest tradition and history.Real also adopted to engage famous players decades ago,even in times when clubs in Germany and England didnt even think of the concept of signing foreign players.
They have one of the greatest stadiums in the world and an attractive world-known city to house it.
Why does every player like to play for Real?Take Robinho for example.It was clear from the start that he is going to play for Real.Or Zidane, Roberto Carlos,Ronaldo and so on.
Another example:ManU just proposed a laughable bid for Ballack.Real is also bidding for him.But actually the player is only thinking of maybe joining Real since the club is always considered a "step higher than any other club".anyways he will stay in Munich,but that gives you an idea what people are actually thinking.


----------



## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

eddyk said:


> Manchester United IS top though...as far as the rich list goes.
> 
> You yourself DetoX voted for Man Utd in this poll.
> 
> ...



If you would look up to the beginning of the thread you could read my comment that actually explains to you that ManU is now the club with the highest debts in the world.


----------



## Sitback (Nov 1, 2004)

Checker said:


> trust me that I know what Im talking about.


I'm afraid to tell you but no you really, really don't.


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

You comment where you said....Glazer borrowed so many millions so me could buy manchester United.

Glazer owes the money back...not Manchester United.


----------



## Sitback (Nov 1, 2004)

Checker said:


> If you would look up to the beginning of the thread you could read my comment that actually explains to you that ManU is now the club with the highest debts in the world.


Yeah only because they were purchased it can happen to any public club. Either way, United still have the biggest earning power and is valued higher then all sport clubs.


----------



## DetoX (May 12, 2004)

> Manchester United IS top though...as far as the rich list goes.
> 
> You yourself DetoX voted for Man Utd in this poll.


Yes, because I like Manchester United and It is the biggest and richest Football club.




> I do, however. Realise they are the biggest sports club in the world with a massive global appeal. You think they are the 6th most popular club in the world, Detox? My god how funny. Juventus and Liverpool in front??? HAHAHA x1million.
> 
> But oh... I forgot you have been interested in football since your birth IT MUST BE POSSIBLE!



Your arrogance is unnecessary. I do not negation that MU is "the biggest sports club in the world " but I was walking about those votes. Many people like Real Madrit more than Manchester United (I`am talking about people outside UK- I like both). I just wanted to explain that this votes may be possible, I know many people even hate Manchester United.

But You just bash me for this comment because "You know better" .. because You know everything and Manchester United MUST BE in the first place.. no matter what other people say.


----------



## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

Sitback said:


> I support Arsenal and despice those Manc c*nts.
> 
> I do, however. Realise they are the biggest sports club in the world with a massive global appeal. You think they are the 6th most popular club in the world, Detox? My god how funny. Juventus and Liverpool in front??? HAHAHA x1million.
> 
> But oh... I forgot you have been interested in football since your birth IT MUST BE POSSIBLE!


I always find it quite amazing here in Britain how people can be so full of themselves and ignoring the rest of the world totally.
I give you a non british view.Here in Germany for example ManU is regarded as the biggest club in Britain.Thats it!!And yes Juventus would probably be considered higher or at least on the same level.speaking of sporting success and fame of course.
Maybe thats because there are so many italians in Germany but I do think so aswell.I dont care what viewing figures a club gets in china,but rather what they are able to put up on the pitch,and what players are playing for the club.And in this case Juventus and Milan win easily.No doubt.
and that doesnt include clubs like Barcelona,Real,Inter,Bayern and so on.


----------



## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

Sitback said:


> I'm afraid to tell you but no you really, really don't.


dude you dont have any competence whatsover of telling me or other people about their football knowledge.
Especially when you are coming up with nothing more than nonsense.


----------



## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

eddyk said:


> You comment where you said....Glazer borrowed so many millions so me could buy manchester United.
> 
> Glazer owes the money back...not Manchester United.


No he doesnt.He is the boss of ManU and therefore he just transferred the debts on to ManU.Remmber that he is a very rich man himself


----------



## pacorro (Jun 6, 2005)

Beckham was playing in Man U but he wanted to play in Real Madrid

Owen was playing in Liverpool but he wanted to play in Real Madrid

Figo was playing in Barcelona but he wanted to play in Real Madrid

Zidane was playing in Juventus, but he wanted to play in Real Madrid

Ronaldo was playing in Inter Milan, but he wanted to play in Real Madrid

It is very clear that all football players dream to play in Real Madrid because is the most famous and the most prestigious Club in the world (choosen the best team of XX century in 1999). Real Madrid can sign almost every football star because everyone wants to play in Bernabeu. Simple as that. 
Raul won't never move from Real even if Man U is interested in him but Real can take iconic players for other clubs like Beckham or Owen because these players know that Real Madrid is something bigger. Sorry but Real is in another galaxy.
By the way, poll's results are a joke.


----------



## Sitback (Nov 1, 2004)

pacorro said:


> Beckham was playing in Man U but he wanted to play in Real Madrid
> 
> Owen was playing in Liverpool but he wanted to play in Real Madrid
> 
> ...


*sigh*

How many times do I have to tell these clueless people... Beckham would of stayed at United if Fergie did not want to get rid of him. Simple as, he didn't decide on going to Real Madrid over United. He had not much choice, Fergie and Beckham had become bitter after the incident when Arsenal knocked United out of the FA Cup and Fergi kicked a boot at Beckham's head causing him to need stitches. Beckham supported United as a kid. Owen would of stayed with Liverpool if they could promise him realistic chances of winning the European Cup, then Liverpool went and won the cup. It is a strong possibility Owen is returning back to Liverpool or even Arsenal or United.

United could of bought all those players you mentioned, but they ain't stupid enough to pay 40 Million for a player who is essentially an advert. Most players want to play for Chelsea these days because it is for such a superficial thing as money and not much else.

PS. World class players like Henry, Ronaldinho and Gerrard have no interest in Real Madrid, which throws your theory out of the window.


----------



## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

Sitback said:


> United could of bought all those players you mentioned, but they ain't stupid enough to pay 40 Million for a player who is essentially an advert.


Okay i dont have any time anymore.You just dont seem to get it.
Firstly you call these players an advert?But they have won more with Real in the last decade than ManU in their whole history.So much for that.
Secondly:Most of the players like Zidane(advert?) never had the intention to go to ManU.Nor does Robinho.Nor does Ballack.
But all of them like or would like to play for Real.
Btw.ronaldinho doesnt want to go to Real because he is playing for Barca.
You obviously dont know about the rivalry between those two clubs.
When Figo made the move from Barca to Real it was in the Press all over the place.


----------



## pacorro (Jun 6, 2005)

Sitback said:


> *sigh*
> 
> How many times do I have to tell these clueless people... Beckham would of stayed at United if Fergie did not want to get rid of him. Simple as, he didn't decide on going to Real Madrid over United. He had not much choice, Fergie and Beckham had become bitter after the incident when Arsenal knocked United out of the FA Cup and Fergi kicked a boot at Beckham's head causing him to need stitches. Beckham supported United as a kid. Owen would of stayed with Liverpool if they could promise him realistic chances of winning the European Cup, then Liverpool went and won the cup. It is a strong possibility Owen is returning back to Liverpool or even Arsenal or United.
> 
> ...


I agree that many players can be comfortable at other clubs. Henry is very comfortable in Arsenal, as Ronaldinho is in Barcelona. But if for any reason they have to leave their clubs they will choose Real to play before any other club in the world.
Beckham had a problem in Manchester with Ferguson and he wanted to move, Barcelona and Man U had an agreement but when he knew Real Madrid wanted to sign him, there was no hesitation there, he clearly choosed Real over Barcelona.
Is it for you stupid to pay 40 millions for a player if he generates 80? LOL!! you are a good business man!!. Real Madrid signed Beckham for 25 millions, he is a good player plus he generates a lot of money.
You said that Man U is not as stupid as Real Madrid for spending 40 millions for players that are essentially and advert so, are you trying to say that Zidane, Ronaldo, Figo, Owen, etc are not good players for Man U? LOL!!! I don't know who is the person who chooses what players have to play in Old Trafford and what players doesn't have to, but he must be blind!!!
You will never see players like those ones playing in Old Trafford, I think you are a bit jealous.
By the way, Ronaldo and Zidane are winning less money than they were winning in Italy, which throws your theory about money out of the window.


----------



## Sitback (Nov 1, 2004)

Real Madrid have been shite for the last 3 years.


----------



## Sitback (Nov 1, 2004)

PS. It's not like superstars ain't going to United is it? How on earth did Beckham generate his image, it wasn't at Real. he was the biggest name in sport already and he bought that to Real. He became what he is at United.

Rooney will be the next greatest striker, he is at United. Ronaldo (port). Real Madrid would love to have him, he is at United tho. Ruud Van Nistelrooy?

C'mon give in.


----------



## Sitback (Nov 1, 2004)

Checker said:


> Okay i dont have any time anymore.You just dont seem to get it.
> Firstly you call these players an advert?But they have won more with Real in the last decade than ManU in their whole history.So much for that.
> Secondly:Most of the players like Zidane(advert?) never had the intention to go to ManU.Nor does Robinho.Nor does Ballack.
> But all of them like or would like to play for Real.
> ...


Whatever, either way United have become a more of a global brand with more annual profit and are valued more then any other sports club... All of this and they don't spend half the money Real Madrid do.


----------



## A42251 (Sep 13, 2004)

What about world-famous athletes? Can any country match the US on this? Both now and historically, the list of prominent American athletes is mind-boggling: Tiger Woods, Lance Armstrong, Michael Jordan, Shaquille O'Neal, Muhammud Ali, Babe Ruth, and that is just the tip of the ice-berg.


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

Let it go sitback...weve had this discussion before...apparently sucess is the same as fame.

Though succsess does = fame....Man Utd have been the most successful club in the most watched sports league in the world over the last decade or so.


----------



## elliott (Sep 23, 2002)

@A42251

what about these, you may not know some (as i don't know where your from e.g. Cricketers etc)

Fred Perry - Tennis
David Beckham/George Best - Football
Paula Radcliffe/Linford Christie - Athletics
Ian Botham/Don Bradman - Cricket
Damon Hill - F1 racing
Johnny Wilkinson - Rugby
Colin McCrae - Rally Driver


----------



## A42251 (Sep 13, 2004)

^but are all of those people as famous worldwide as the people I named?


----------



## EtherealMist (Jul 26, 2005)

A42251 said:


> ^but are all of those people as famous worldwide as the people I named?


Yeah David Beckham is absurdly popular worldwide. His star power is unmatched really by any athlete ever. Of course not saying that hes more accomplished athleticly than someone like Lace Armstrong.


----------



## A42251 (Sep 13, 2004)

OK, Beckham is one. I could name you dozens of US athletes (current or historic) that are household names all around the world. 

BTW - I think Jordan or Ali could probably match or exceed Beckham's star power.


----------



## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

^Of course! Muhammad Ali and Pele are the greatest sportsmen ever.
but what exactly do you want to know?
Europe has its share of great athletes just like the states.


----------



## A42251 (Sep 13, 2004)

No other country has more world famous athletes than the US. Its not even close. 

When it comes to cities, look at all the world-famous athletes who have played for New York teams. Hell, the Yankees alone have had more world-famous athletes than most cities or countries.


----------



## kids (Dec 12, 2004)

what? i can't name any baseball players. I think you mean usa famous athletes.


----------



## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

dude I had this discussion often enough.First of all nobody here in Europe knows about your Baseball,Football heroes.Nobody! get used to that.
And I dont like to repeat myself but yes,Europe (not a country true)
has atleast as many,but probably much more famous athletes than the US.
The whole world knows about the famous football players playing in Europe.
And as I said Pele to me is one,or the most famous sportsman ever.And hes brazilian.
Not many athletes (apart from Muhammad Ali maybe)come nowhere near to his success and fame throughout the world,and especially no Baseball players.


----------



## earthJoker (Dec 15, 2004)

I don't know a single baseball player either, and I am shure it's the same for most people I know.


----------



## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

^I cant name any either.Even though Im intersted in any kind of sport


----------



## Knopfleratu (May 20, 2004)

Peshu said:


> I think it's Real Madrid (Madrid).The worlds most famous football club of the worlds most popular sport.
> Most Americans tend to think it's the New York yankees (New York).Not as universal a sport.



????? Ridiculous.... Real only have football and basket, FC BARCELONA have football, basket, handball, hockey (roller & ice)......


----------



## elliott (Sep 23, 2002)

@A42251

are you telling me you dont have any idea who Fred Perry is, hes one of the most famous tennis players ever (clothing range named after him). what about paula radcliffe won the World Championship Marathon today and is probably the worlds greatest distance athlete ever and the Cricket and Rugby ones are well known all over the commonwealth, however i got Donald Bradman wrongs as hes an aussie but that was because hes been Knighted


----------



## A42251 (Sep 13, 2004)

earthJoker said:


> I don't know a single baseball player either, and I am shure it's the same for most people I know.


So you've seriously never heard of Babe Ruth, Joe DiMaggio, or Mickey Mantle?


----------



## kids (Dec 12, 2004)

why would we? we don't watch baseball in eu. Whereas i know for a fact that david beckham was a bit of a star in the us.


----------



## A42251 (Sep 13, 2004)

Checker said:


> dude I had this discussion often enough.First of all nobody here in Europe knows about your Baseball,Football heroes.Nobody! get used to that.
> And I dont like to repeat myself but yes,Europe (not a country true)
> has atleast as many,but probably much more famous athletes than the US.
> The whole world knows about the famous football players playing in Europe.
> ...


Um, does Michael Jordan ring a bell? How about Babe Ruth? I heard that those guys did sort of OK in their sports careers.


----------



## defi (Jul 30, 2004)

A42251 said:


> Um, does Michael Jordan ring a bell? How about Babe Ruth? I heard that those guys did sort of OK in their sports careers.


I believe that 95% of all europeans never heard of Babe Ruth as their is no interest in baseball whatsoever in Europe.


----------



## kids (Dec 12, 2004)

A42251 said:


> Um, does Michael Jordan ring a bell? How about Babe Ruth? I heard that those guys did sort of OK in their sports careers.


i've know michael jordan, but then again we play basket ball alot in the eu, its a widely spread sport.


----------



## elliott (Sep 23, 2002)

I know the name Babe Ruth from American films but dont know anything about him. I may be commiting murder saying this as i have no idea but did he play for the Boston 'Red Sox'


----------



## A42251 (Sep 13, 2004)

^Yes he did, in the beginning of his career


----------



## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

Sitback said:


> *sigh*
> 
> How many times do I have to tell these clueless people... Beckham would of stayed at United if Fergie did not want to get rid of him. Simple as, he didn't decide on going to Real Madrid over United. He had not much choice, Fergie and Beckham had become bitter after the incident when Arsenal knocked United out of the FA Cup and Fergi kicked a boot at Beckham's head causing him to need stitches. Beckham supported United as a kid. Owen would of stayed with Liverpool if they could promise him realistic chances of winning the European Cup, then Liverpool went and won the cup. It is a strong possibility Owen is returning back to Liverpool or even Arsenal or United.
> 
> ...




It's funny how you like to belittle other peoples views,yet believe that your view is so accurate?Get a life,you ignorant little boy.
You disprove Pacorros theory about all of the greatest players on earth wanting to come to Real because Henry,Ronaldinho and Gerrard aren't playing for them :weirdo: 
For a start Henry has never proven himself in important games concerning important competitions.Ronaldinhos first choice was Real.(unfortunately Madrid opted for sales of shirts in Asia and opted for Beckham).And Gerrard didn't come because he wouldn't get a game.
As i've said before.Man U were smart enough to market themselves before Real.But now with Real doing the same there is just no stopping them.They are unquestionably the biggest,greatest and most famous club in the world.Deal with it.The sale of Beckham,weather or not he had a fight with the manager has nothing to do with him coming to Madrid.He had the opportunity to move up and he did.Who the hell wouldn't.He has already said that Real is the biggest club in the world.


----------



## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

EarlyBird said:


> Peshu, you didn't conduct the survey, no. The problem is that nobody else did either. You invented it. It's a well known fact that Manchester United have the largest club following in the world. That's why they're the most profitable in the world despite not having particularly high ticket prices or shirt prices. Second place is undoubtably the NY Yankees. I've seen United shirts in NYC and Yankees caps in Manchester to a much greater extent than those of other clubs.


Earlybird.Before you accuse people of anything.Be sure.
And as you can see i didn't invent jack.I'm not you.


----------



## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

eddyk said:


> Let it go sitback...weve had this discussion before...apparently sucess is the same as fame.
> 
> Though succsess does = fame....Man Utd have been the most successful club in the most watched sports league in the world over the last decade or so.



Yes .He should let it go.Since he has no idea what he is talking about.
And the most succesful club in the last decade is?You guessed it Real.
They won more champions leagues then Man U or arsenal put together in their entire history :clown:


----------



## DetoX (May 12, 2004)

I don't know a single baseball player either..

Of course the best football players was *PELE*.. it is indisputable.


----------



## SE9 (Apr 26, 2005)

^^ I second that.. Pele is the best player ever


----------



## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

SE9 said:


> lol!! Go Canada.. i mean US.. i mean... yeah Canada!
> 
> I thought the worst rivalry in Spain was Real Betis .v. Sevilla?



:hahaha: Forget the U.S.A. It's Canada all the way.
And concerning the Real Betis and Seville rivalry?Interesting.I'm not terribly fami;iar with it.


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

I made a new account.....and voted Manchester United again.












Rangers and Celtic have the biggest rivalry in football.


----------



## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

^Rangers and Celtic :bash: Ha,ha,ha.
You're getting funnier by the minute.
Ever heard of Madrid v Barcelona or Milan v Inter.How about Boca v River?


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

Every heard of Catholics and Protestants?


----------



## caw123 (Jan 5, 2003)

Real Madrid more famous than ManU? No fucking way, sorry.


----------



## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

eddyk said:


> Every heard of Catholics and Protestants?



I ain't saying it's not one of the most important rivalries.But the Scottish league is second rate.How the hell can you compare to the prestige of the other rivalries?


----------



## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

caw123 said:


> Real Madrid more famous than ManU? No fucking way, sorry.



Uhm.O.K. I guess that's official confirmation then :runaway:


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

What the heck does the level of play have to do with the rivalry?

Rangers and Celtic are the best teams in scotland....both in the same city, one team is catholic one team is protestant.

There has been wars and many deaths over this.


----------



## SE9 (Apr 26, 2005)

y'all should start a new thread abt football rivalries


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

Peshu said:


> It's official then.When a Bilbao supporter is able to admit that Real Madrid is the biggest then it has to be true


Im a Liverpool supporter as It happens...and Ive said that in this thread before.

Liverpool and Manchester is England biggest rivalry, goes past football, and goes all the way back to the start of the industrial revolution when they were rival docks.


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

SE9 said:


> y'all should start a new thread abt football rivalries



There was one not long ago...but I cant remember what section its was in or else I would go find it.


----------



## birminghamculture (Nov 1, 2002)

Peshu said:


> I ain't saying it's not one of the most important rivalries.But the Scottish league is second rate.How the hell can you compare to the prestige of the other rivalries?


Yeh 2nd rate but that 2nd rate football still gets 60,000 fans each game :bash:

Th biggest rivalries in football are in the lower leagues, games which havent been highlighted on the big stage because they've never had the chance. I witnessed Wolves and Albion fans fighting at a 5 a-side masters tournment, over a petty result ... 5-ASIDE GAME, thats just silly.

Albion and Wolves are seperated by a shitty bridge, with WBA wrote on one side and Wolves on the other, WBA are in the prem, Wolves in the Champ, when these two play in thw Premiership thats when your see a proper derby. These Manchester V Liverppol derbies are big, but they dont have the passion, I think Soton and Portsmouth proved how many major rivalries are underlying in the nations footballing world ...

OH and I almost forgot - WBA-WOL (The Black Country derby) was voted the the best in England by the Daily Telegraph a few years ago  (8 miles of hatred or something, was the title) Thats the distance seperating the two stadiums, by the way


----------



## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

birminghamculture said:


> Yeh 2nd rate but that 2nd rate football still gets 60,000 fans each game :bash:
> 
> Th biggest rivalries in football are in the lower leagues, games which havent been highlighted on the big stage because they've never had the chance. I witnessed Wolves and Albion fans fighting at a 5 a-side masters tournment, over a petty result ... 5-ASIDE GAME, thats just silly.
> 
> ...


Well i guess you may have a point.In Canada we only get to find a bit of information on the big money rivalries.Unfortunately i'm not able to witness the many rivalries or world class games that one can go to week in week out in Europe.You lucky b------s.
Never the less.I definately agree on a new club rivalries thread.


----------



## SE9 (Apr 26, 2005)

There Ive done it


----------



## abraham (Jul 6, 2005)

Kids in the riot said:


> Real Madrid (Madrid). 48 27.91%
> New York yankees (New York). 26 15.12%
> A.C Milan (Milan). 7 4.07%
> Chicago bulls (Chicago). 2 1.16%
> ...


Well I would say a SkyscraperCity Forum is hardly representative of soccer lovers worldwide. Also, most people on this forum were raised or educated in English and are more likely to have hearsay knowledge about British institutions than about Spanish ones. 

But go around the world and ask people, 'Can you name three MU players?' and 'Can you name three RM players?' and the chances are that you'll get few positive answers to the first question, and many to the second. Now _that's_ the kind of fame that counts.


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

'Well I would say a SkyscraperCity Forum is hardly representative of soccer lovers worldwide. 

Exactly....not soccer lovers...and have STILL heard of Manchester United...maybe Peshu should of put a 'MUST WATCH FOOTBALL' warning in his 1st post.

'But go around the world and ask people, 'Can you name three MU players?' and 'Can you name three RM players?' and the chances are that you'll get few positive answers to the first question, and many to the second. Now that's the kind of fame that counts.'


I dont belive this for one second.

You could also go round asking what stadium they play in...I know people who have gone on holiday to London and have taken a train up to Manchester just to visit Old Trafford.

Old Trafford
Bernabeu

What do you think?


----------



## abraham (Jul 6, 2005)

eddyk said:


> Exactly....not soccer lovers...and have STILL heard of Manchester United...maybe Peshu should of put a 'MUST WATCH FOOTBALL' warning in his 1st post.


Exactly... have _heard_ of MU... but then yet more people have _heard_ of the NY Yankees and, thanks to Seinfeld and the movies, know what the Yankee Stadium looks like, even if they can't tell baseball from cricket. If raw fame is what we're talking about, no one can beat the Yankees and no stadium can compete with theirs.

I can confidently say that:

1) In Latin America, La Liga is the foreign league to watch and Real Madrid is the foreign club to root for. Someone in this thread made the ludicrous claim that we in Lat Am watch the Premier League; maybe that's the case in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines or in Belize, but definitely not in Brazil, Mexico or Argentina.

2) In Tokyo, where I went to attend Boca vs Bayern a couple of years ago, Real is the best known foreign team and you see _many_ people wearing the Real shirt, probably because Real goes to Tokyo more often than other teams (3 times in the last 9 years, as compared to once in the case of Man U). This also goes contrary to someone's claim that MU is better known in the Raising Sun Empire.


----------



## DrJekyll (Sep 23, 2004)

Celtic - Rangers is craaazy!


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

abraham said:


> Exactly... have _heard_ of MU... but then yet more people have _heard_ of the NY Yankees and, thanks to Seinfeld and the movies, know what the Yankee Stadium looks like, even if they can't tell baseball from cricket. If raw fame is what we're talking about, no one can beat the Yankees and no stadium can compete with theirs.


I would say Wembley Stadium, Old Trafford and even Madrids Stadium are more famous than the Yankees stadium.



abraham said:


> 1) In Latin America, La Liga is the foreign league to watch and Real Madrid is the foreign club to root for. Someone in this thread made the ludicrous claim that we in Lat Am watch the Premier League; maybe that's the case in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines or in Belize, but definitely not in Brazil, Mexico or Argentina.


You have just made a ludicrous claim saying you dont watch it.




abraham said:


> 2) In Tokyo, where I went to attend Boca vs Bayern a couple of years ago, Real is the best known foreign team and you see _many_ people wearing the Real shirt, probably because Real goes to Tokyo more often than other teams (3 times in the last 9 years, as compared to once in the case of Man U). This also goes contrary to someone's claim that MU is better known in the Raising Sun Empire.


Thats makes no sence at all...RM have been there more times so they must be known more :laugh:

Maybe I should remind you that the premiership is the most watched sports league, so people all over China can tune in and watch Man Utd...and there will be alot more watching a Man U league match on TV than went to see the 3 games RM played in.

As for the shirts....I could say the same things about Man U and Liverpool.....Liverpool are a team I also think are just as famous as Madrid.


----------



## jesarm (Dec 26, 2004)

I think Liverpool is most famous than Manchester United


----------



## EarlyBird (Oct 2, 2004)

jesarm said:


> I think Liverpool is most famous than Manchester United


:laugh:


----------



## wjfox (Nov 1, 2002)

Jesarm, you can't be serious.


----------



## jesarm (Dec 26, 2004)

This is just only my opinión. Liverpool has always been a kind, fair and nice club in my country, I think Liverpool is the most famous english club and has more british and international trophies by far than MU in history


----------



## DrJekyll (Sep 23, 2004)

In Spain everybody loves Liverpool


----------



## jesarm (Dec 26, 2004)

GIANTS BATTLE















 vs


----------



## Sitback (Nov 1, 2004)

Peshu said:


> Ask those 220,000,000 that support Real as opposed to the 160,000,000 that support Man U thru out the world :runaway:


Are those some more figures you made up on the spot? You little liar.


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

DrJekyll said:


> In Spain everybody loves Liverpool


Tell me about it.

When I was last in Spain (January) I was patted on the back, hand my hand shook by loads of people and what not...all because I wore my Liverpool shirt.


----------



## abraham (Jul 6, 2005)

eddyk said:


> You have just made a ludicrous claim saying you dont watch it [the premiership].


Well, bad news for you: you're not that important! I don't watch the English league and the only British match I care for is Rangers vs Celtic, and then for the sociology of it.



eddyk said:


> Maybe I should remind you that the premiership is the most watched sports league.


Sez who? The NBA finals are probably the most-watched yearly sports event. As for soccer leagues, allow me to make my point once more: there's a difference between the Pakistani who watches a Premier League game once in a while (and switches channels if a cricket game is simultaneously being played) and the soccer-avid Brazilian who doesn't miss a single Real Madrid game. 

There's a difference between the superficial fame of just knowing the name of a club (the only field in which Manchester United might top Real Madrid; and even this has yet to be proved) and the profound fame of having masses of people committed to watch each and every game a team plays. And sorry, this last thing can happen only in soccer-crazy countries like Brazil or Argentina, and not in nations like India or Malaysia, which is where you pronounce Man U the clear winner.


----------



## EtherealMist (Jul 26, 2005)

The NBA finals? Are you serious?


----------



## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

abraham said:


> Well, bad news for you: you're not that important! I don't watch the English league and the only British match I care for is Rangers vs Celtic, and then for the sociology of it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's a very well thought out answer :rock:


----------



## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

Sitback said:


> Are those some more figures you made up on the spot? You little liar.


Go back to page 13,post 246 to get the link.You dud :sleepy:


----------



## SE9 (Apr 26, 2005)

abraham said:


> Sez who? The NBA finals are probably the most-watched yearly sports event. As for soccer leagues, allow me to make my point once more: there's a difference between the Pakistani who watches a Premier League game once in a while (and switches channels if a cricket game is simultaneously being played) and the soccer-avid Brazilian who doesn't miss a single Real Madrid game.
> 
> There's a difference between the superficial fame of just knowing the name of a club (the only field in which Manchester United might top Real Madrid; and even this has yet to be proved) and the profound fame of having masses of people committed to watch each and every game a team plays. And sorry, this last thing can happen only in soccer-crazy countries like Brazil or Argentina, and not in nations like India or Malaysia, which is where you pronounce Man U the clear winner.



I thought it was the superbowl.

What about "soccer avid" Africans who dosen't miss a match? 

Oh and by the way... all foreign leagues in Brasil and Argentina are not considered highly compared to their own. (ie people are much more interested in Corinthians, Sao Paulo, River Plate etc. than Real Madrid, Barcelona etc.)


----------



## hngcm (Sep 17, 2002)

How many people watch the Champions League final?


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

More than watch the Superbowl.

Something like 1.2bn


----------



## Peshu (Jan 12, 2005)

^ That is certainly something that i will most certainly agree on.Even in non footballing nations i can guarantee that the majority of the population will most certainly have an idea about the actual result of the Champions league final.


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

Peshu said:


> Ask those 220,000,000 that support Real as opposed to the 160,000,000 that support Man U thru out the world :runaway:



Back to this comment.

Though I think so numbers are utter rubbish...this is a 'most famous' competition...not the most liked.


For examble the USA...possibly the most famous country in the world...also possible the most hated


----------



## vertigosufferer (Aug 20, 2005)

I would have to say Manchester United, then Real Madrid...then....

Accrington Stanley!!
Accrington Stanley??... who are they????
Exactly!!!


----------



## eddyk (Mar 26, 2005)

Ha ha.


Them and Northampton Town.


'Cobblers!!!'


Nah its true


----------



## Martin S (Sep 12, 2002)

wjfox2002 said:


> Jesarm, you can't be serious.


Why on earth not? Liverpool has won the European Cup more times than all other British teams put together. 

Might I also remind you that Liverpool are the current holders of the cup having beaten AC Milan in Istanbul following being 3-0 down in the first half.

Like much to do with Manchester, there is a large amount of hype but not much substance.

Liverpool also hosts the Grand National, the world's most famous steeplechase and a worthy contender for the title of this thread.

Oh and next year the golf Open championships will be held at the Royal Liverpool course in Hoylake.

Next month, the 2005 Clipper - Round the World Yacht Race will depart from Liverpool. Not one of the most famous sporting events in the world but does illustrate the diversity of sporting activities in the city.


----------



## DetoX (May 12, 2004)

> I thought it was the superbowl.


Man, Are you serious ?


----------



## tocoto (Jan 18, 2003)

What's famous depends on where you live. Not a single person in my office in Boston has ever heard of any of the european teams except Manchester United. The Yankees and Celtics were the most mentioned in my neck of the woods.


----------

