# Sticky  DISCUSS | Supertalls of the past, present and future



## AnOldBlackMarble

Anyone know what's going on with the construction on virtually all these towers around the world? Is it coming to a halt due to the virus shut downs? I would assume so.


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## Victhor

AnOldBlackMarble said:


> Anyone know what's going on with the construction on virtually all these towers around the world? Is it coming to a halt due to the virus shut downs? I would assume so.


I was wondering the same!, construction in China has been halted for 2 months, but at least in Shanghai, all constructions resumed last week!


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## Dude254

Shenzhen,a city that started some 20 years ago has already rivaled and brought NewYork city to shame by constructing new glossy futuristic skyscrapers in just a span of 20 years,and NYC a century?
This is a joke!


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## KillerZavatar

Dude254 said:


> Shenzhen,a city that started some 20 years ago has already rivaled and brought NewYork city to shame by constructing new glossy futuristic skyscrapers in just a span of 20 years,and NYC a century?
> This is a joke!


To be fair, there is only that many projects you can put into Manhattan, Shenzhen is building most of its Skyscrapers in Luohu, Futian and Nanshan


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## Zaz965

^^^
dear KillerZavatar, what are the next shenzhen districts chosen to build new supertalls in your opinion?


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## KillerZavatar

^^
well what I meant to say is most skyscrapers are in those district. Of course all districts do build skyscrapers, but the bulk is in city proper and always will be, I think. Even if clusters in Longgang or at Shenzhen North grow quite a bit, I don't think it will compare to the main city. And sure, you will have Qianhai spillover into Baoan District, but in general Qianhai to Luohu, Hong Kong Border to Tang Lang Hill Country Park is where the magic happens, very large, but quite defined area.


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## A Chicagoan

VERY large indeed. Shenzhen has a continuous skyline stretching for almost 14 miles, longer than the whole of Manhattan, with supertalls sprinkled all throughout.


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## KillerZavatar

Indeed,

Brooklyn and Updown Manhattan do have the residential density though to support similar crazy projects, but it's a different type of philosophy. But also maybe some recent projects indicate that Brooklyn took take off and become a new small cluster. We will see. Shenzhen has smaller cluster separated by more parks and large avenues throughout all of the city. If you talk to people in Shenzhen and they want to go to city center, they will all mean something different, many in the West would go to Houhai and many in the East would go to Luohu, the city is just big enough and all these clusters provide tons of very large shopping opportunities. New York is much more centralized.


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## Dude254

Shenzhen is one massive and monstrous upscale development and always going up.The number of cranes is so huge in the sky.In a few years time ,I think it will beat HongKong in the number of Supertalls and become world's leader


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## Zaz965

I am disappointed at Shanghai, because Shanghai is more populated and has less skyscrapers than Shenzhen


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## Zaz965

the buildings in Shenzhen are separated one each other, take a look








the buildings in New York are juxtaposed one each other and the sun can't reach the streets ,so I prefer Shenzhen in this point


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## KillerZavatar

^^
that hotel lobby is not open to the public anymore  I loved that view and I am happy to have been there a couple of times while it was free to just go up.


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## Zaz965

dear KillerZavatar, what is the widest building in the world above 200m tall?


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## KillerZavatar

Zaz965 said:


> dear KillerZavatar, what is the widest building in the world above 200m tall?


this is a question that cannot be answered because it depends on so many things, do malls, casinos or different large retail areas count as an extension of the building? Do several towers count? and if not what exactly is only one Tower? There are connected buildings, do they both count? If not how about crazy examples like 85 Sky Tower, that is only one building, but it has two foot prints, so is that really one building and why are the others not then? And not all buildings are boxes, so how to count buildings that snake around like Hefei Feicui TV Tower, does that building even have a width? Buildings are an artform and as such, there are exceptions and extreme cases to almost everything.

edit: as this is off topic, i will leave this link for further discussion


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## Zaz965

I understand, but I meant massive volume, for example, I find 55 water street building very massive  








55 Water Street - Wikipedia


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## Zaz965

I noticed that Luohu, Futian and Nanshan together are bigger than Manhattan, take a look
according the photo posted by KillerZavatar


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## A Chicagoan

Yeah, they're bigger than the ENTIRETY of Manhattan, most of which doesn't have skyscrapers. But Manhattan is much denser, so it evens out when it comes to the numbers.


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## Zaz965

I prefer Shenzhen because the buildings are separated one each other, while Manhattan has juxtaposed buildings forming urban "canyons", for example this









in my opinion, juxtaposed buildings works well when the buildings are short, for example Barcelona


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## A Chicagoan

I don't like the juxtaposed canyons because it's impossible to take a picture of some of the shorter skyscrapers in the middle of the skyline!


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## Zaz965

^^^
I think the same


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## LivinAWestLife

Haha, I love the skyscraper canyons though, makes it feel very urban and dense


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## Zaz965

in my opinion, urban canyon to visit is cool, but to live is not very interesting


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## Zaz965

interesting chart


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## A Chicagoan

^^ Very interesting! I would have expected Guangzhou and Shanghai to place much higher, and I definitely didn't expect Liuzhou to make the top 10.


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## Zaz965

^^^
for this reason, I suspect they included small buildings


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## KillerZavatar

^^
the chart is a little misleading. What they mean is the combined height of buildings over 200m completed in 2018, so this does not include buildings finished in 2017 and before. Liuzhou finished 3 of its 8 total skyscrapers that year. Guangzhou (4 of 36) and Shanghai (3 of 54) had their main boom much earlier than 2018. Chongqing doesn't show up at all here, but would have over 2200m in 2019. The number for Shenyang interestingly comes from just 2 massive projects


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## Dude254

I expect Shenzhen to be the worlds Leader in super talls in a few years


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## Kyll.Ing.

I just noticed ... While it's been known for a while in the Megatalls section that PNB118 is the only building under construction taller than 600 meters worldwide, it seems like it has also become the only building U/C taller than 500 meters as well. True, there's Goldin Finance 117, standing at 597 meters, but that one isn't exactly bristling with activity. It's more of a boom-era tower that got stuck in the door on the way out, or a straggler on the platform after the last train left. It has been On Hold for a long time, for all practical purposes.

If I'm reading the forums right, Greenland Center in Xi'an is currently the world's second tallest building under construction, at a planned height of 498 meters. It is followed by Central Park Tower in New York and Greenland Center in Wuhan - yes, the one with the height cut.

Interestingly, in addition to the lack of 500+ m activity, there appears to be a glut of 400+ m buildings in general. Again with the exception of Greenland Center Xi'an, which is just getting off the ground, most of the other 400+ m buildings are close to completion or to topping out. Again, if I'm reading things correctly, this is the status of the tallest buildings U/C as of their latest thread updates:

PNB118 - 656 m - Core close to topping out, rest of tower not far behind. Work to begin on spire afterwards.
Greenland Center Xi'an - 498 m - Just recently got off the ground, appears to be rising at steady pace. First floor plates haven't been installed yet.
Greenland Center Wuhan - 476 m - Topped out (or capped out?). Appears to be on hold.
Central Park Tower - 472 m - Topped out.
Chongqing Corporate Avenue - 458 m - Rising, about halfway to full height.
One Tower Moscow - 443 m - Appears to still be a hole in the ground.
Riverview Plaza - 436 m - Core topped out, rest of building rising.
One Bangkok - 436 m - Appears to still be a hole in the ground.
111 W 57th Street - 425 m - Topped out.
Shandong IFC - 428 m - Rising, slightly below halfway to full height.
One Vanderbilt - 427 m - Topped out.
Dongguan International Trade Center - 427 m - Topped out.
Guiyang Financial Center - 412 m - Topped out.
Nanjing Financial City Phase II - 411 m - Rising, but still below ground level.
Ningbo Center - 409 m - Rising, but still below ground level.
Eye of Spring Trade Center - 407 m - Just recently got off the ground. Appears to have got its first floor plates installed recently.
Nanning China Resources Tower - 403 m - Topped out.
Not sure if Silk Road Pearl Tower (468 m) should be counted, as it's an observation tower. Anyway, it just got off the ground too.

So, out of all the 17 U/C buildings (discounting Silk Road Pearl Tower) above 400 meters, 7 are topped out. Two have their cores topped out. Four are still below ground level. Two just got off ground level. That, strangely, leaves only two in the middle of construction - and I think both of them were stuck there for some time before restarting.

There are quite a handful of towers On Hold too. 19 above 400 meters according to Skyscraperpage, although the status is dubious for a couple of them as they barely got to the hole-in-the-ground stage before construction stopped, and some have been On Hold for long enough that cancellation seems inevitable.

Still, the trend appears clear: Super-dupertall skyscrapers don't appear to be as hot anymore. There's a lot of activity going on below the 400 meter mark, but the majority of 400+ m projects seem to be finished or close to wrapping up, with only two in the middle of construction and six more soon to join them (however, I'm personally a little skeptical about the ones in Moscow and Bangkok being ready to rise any time soon). We seem to have a ton of supertalls out there at the moment, but the pace of construction of new ones seems to slow down quite a lot. There was a wave, and now it's petering out. I think another wave will come, but it appears to be a few years away at the moment.

...Or put another way: If PNB118 is completed in 2020 as advertised (or you count its height to the roof instead of to the spire), the five tallest buildings completed in 2021-2025 will all be shorter than the five tallest buildings completed in 2016-2020 - by more than 30 meters.


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## Hudson11

Hyundai's Tower in Seoul is being prepped. That should be the next 500m tower.


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## KillerZavatar

yeah, the trend seems to be that way. less very tall towers, but number of projects is not really dropping. I guess filling the skylines that have landmark towers with more supertalls is not a bad thing, but i still hope we will get more megatalls sooner or later.


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## perheps

Megatall would be active start 2030s but probably megatall two of them before 2030
7 over 500 metres as well as before 2030
18 over 450 metres before 2030
32 over 400 metres before 2030
If they did this then would be before 2040:
6 megatall before 2040
10 over 550 metres before 2040
18 over 500 metres before 2040
32 over 450 metres before 2040
53 over 400 metres before 2040
/////////////////////////// possible before 2050:
1,200 metres only one before 2050
3 over 700 metres before 2050 (Burj Khalifa 50 years old if they from 700 metres to 1,000 metres)
13 megatall before 2050
18 over 550 metres before 2050
25 over 500 metres before 2050
55 over 450 metres before 2050
89 over 400 metres before 2050
1.5 billions people add city if they're plan next 30 years


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## KillerZavatar

Dude254 said:


> I expect Shenzhen to be the worlds Leader in super talls in a few years


It will not. 

Dubai has 24 completed Supertalls, while Shenzhen has 13.
Both cities have 4 buildings topped out
Shenzhen has 8 U/C to Dubai's 6.
So in a couple of years the gap might be getting smaller, but as long as Dubai is not slowing down, no city will catch within in a decade.


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## KillerZavatar

^^
In those time frames, it is really difficult to see what happens, sure we can estimate what happens in the next 5 years. But keep in mind, Several projects in the world currently use new elevator technology that could revolutionize skyscraper efficiency. If one shaft can have several more elevators that do not need cables, then taller buildings do not automatically need exponentially more elevator space, this means not as much floor space will be wasted on megatall buildings and they become economically much more feasible. My hope is that such a technology will rewrite the prognosis of the future quite dramatically.


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## Zaz965

dear KillerZavatar, this video shows a cable-free and multidirectional elevator, will it be possible in your opinion?  
these elevator shafts look like subway, because there are many cabins inside them 






one more interesting video about cable-free and multidirectional elevator, they stole the idea from Willy Wonka and the chocolate factory


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## KillerZavatar

Yes, I visited the Test Tower before. There is a building in Berlin called "The Cube" completed already, that I think is the first using this technology.


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## sponge_bob

China wants nothing taller than a supertall from now on. 









No taller than 500M, no plagiarism: China signals 'new era' for architecture


An end to "copycat" buildings and a ban on skyscrapers taller than 500 meters (1,640 feet) are among the sweeping new government guidelines that may reshape China's cities.




edition.cnn.com







> *Of the 10 completed buildings measuring above 500 meters around the world, half are found in mainland China.*
> Among them are the planet's second-tallest skyscraper, the twisting Shanghai Tower at 632 meters (2,073 feet) tall, and Shenzhen's Ping An Finance Center, which is 599 meters (1,965 feet) from base to tip. In the last two years, they've been joined by Beijing's Citic Tower and the Tianjin CTF Finance Center, the world's seventh and ninth tallest buildings respectively.* But the tide against soaring skyscrapers has been turning for some time.*
> 
> The number of new buildings measuring 200 meters (656 feet) or above in China fell by almost 40% last year, according to construction data from the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat (CTBUH). In Beijing's downtown Central Business District, a height restriction was already being applied to new proposals -- a cap of just 180 meters (591 feet) according to a 2018 report by property firm Jones Lang LaSalle.


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## Zaz965

it will boost the 100m-200m buildings
@oscillation, please, you should also make updates and new threads for 100m-200m buildings


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## Zaz965

one good example about wide building but not very tall building 
wangjing soho, beijing








Wangjing SOHO - Wikipedia

another example
ningbo fortune center, 188m not very tall but very gorgeous    








File:Ningbo Fortune Center, 2014-01.JPG - Wikimedia Commons


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## A Chicagoan

Zaz965 said:


> it will boost the 100m-200m buildings
> @oscillation, please, you should also make updates and new threads for 100m-200m buildings


As far as I know, there's very little information available about 100-200 meter buildings in China. Trying to find information online about a 100-meter building in China is like trying to find information about a specific rock in the US.


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## Lincolnlover2005

Fun Fact: The Tianjin CTF Finance Centre is the last 500m+ skyscraper completed before the ban


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## Zaz965

what is inside these middle floors in Golden Eagle Square Plaza? 
retail, shopping mall or just offices?








Golden Eagle Square Plaza | NANJING | 368m | 76 fl |...


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## A Chicagoan

Zaz965 said:


> what is inside these middle floors in Golden Eagle Square Plaza?
> retail, shopping mall or just offices?


I think it would be rather impractical to have a shopping mall in the high floors of a skyscraper.


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## redbaron_012

Australia's new Supertall topped out a few days ago. AUS108 in Melbourne. The interesting thing about it is although it 'only' reaches to 319m. it has a 100 above ground floors. I'm not sure how statistics work out but maybe this is the shortest







100 level building in the world ? The top Penthouse is immediately below the roof... with no architectural feature climbing well above the usable floors.


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## Zaz965

^^^^
it would be more awesome if the building had a helipad


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## redbaron_012

Zaz965 said:


> ^^^^
> it would be more awesome if the building had a helipad


The roof is quite big...and flat, finishing off to go... These are not my photos but I hope those who took them understand ?


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## EightFive

redbaron_012 said:


> Australia's new Supertall topped out a few days ago. AUS108 in Melbourne. The interesting thing about it is although it 'only' reaches to 319m. it has a 100 above ground floors. I'm not sure how statistics work out but maybe this is the shortest
> View attachment 211035
> 100 level building in the world ? The top Penthouse is immediately below the roof... with no architectural feature climbing well above the usable floors.


Must have some low ceilings. Isnt it supposed to be luxury? 9 foot ceilings are not luxury.


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## redbaron_012

EightFive said:


> Must have some low ceilings. Isnt it supposed to be luxury? 9 foot ceilings are not luxury.


I agree about ceiling heights...I am not sure typical ceiling height here but know Penthouses have higher ceilings but it has been common in Melbourne for apartments to have lower ceiling heights than office buildings. I think most levels have just over 10 foot ceiling height...


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## Zaz965

in my opinion, these apartments should have a higher ceiling to make the building taller


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## redbaron_012

Zaz965 said:


> in my opinion, these apartments should have a higher ceiling to make the building taller


We are having a continual fight against PANOPS...aircraft flight path restricted height limits...The airport is miles away but regulators want to allow for a crippled Cessna off course with a sleeping pilot. ( again rules are loosened since this was approved. A new project across the road...Green Spine...is to go 366m or 1200 feet. )...then we wait for change of rules again.


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## PenangLion

What's the most reliable city in making proposals of supertall skyscrapers?
My answer: Kuala Lumpur. They rarely cancel any major projects unless really substantial reasons. Besides, it is expected that Kuala Lumpur will embrace another 3-4 supertalls (maybe as much as 8) within the next 2 years, compared to 5 in the last 20 years.


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## Kyll.Ing.

PenangLion said:


> What's the most reliable city in making proposals of supertall skyscrapers?
> My answer: Kuala Lumpur. They rarely cancel any major projects unless really substantial reasons. Besides, it is expected that Kuala Lumpur will embrace another 3-4 supertalls (maybe as much as 8) within the next 2 years, compared to 5 in the last 20 years.


I'd say New York City is a pretty good candidate too. 

And maybe Dubai, provided the tower in question is less than 360 meters tall. If a proposed tower in Dubai is taller than that, history shows it's almost guaranteed to be a dud. But the 300-350 m supertalls seem to be thriving. At least they were before the city got hit by the double whammy of an oversupplied real estate market and Covid-19.


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## PenangLion

New York? Yeah that's another strong candidate. Another 4-5 new supertalls coming along right there. Dubai's skyscraper boom is nearly over. Buildings taller than 400 metres, which were commonplace in Dubai is slowly getting cancelled or held one-by-one, and your point is correct, it's shifted towards the 300-350m category.


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## Kyll.Ing.

PenangLion said:


> Buildings taller than 400 metres, which were commonplace in Dubai


Not really. The city only ever built three of them, all of which were initiated before the financial crisis. Burj Khalifa, Marina 101, Princess Tower, end list. But there have been another two dozen or so proposed buildings of that height or taller in Dubai, which never made it to completion. Marina 106 possibly came the closest, about 30 stories up before its abandonment. There's a reason why I'm so skeptical whenever somebody posts another new Megatall proposal for Dubai and treats it as if it would be completed by next year. The number of dead mega-projects in that city keeps increasing, yet new projects keep being announced with the same enthusiasm.


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## EightFive

Have labor costs gone up in dubai?


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## PenangLion

There is actually an even closer one: Pentominium. It was meant to be the tallest residential building in the world - which if completed in 2012 it would still remain undefeated by the Central Park Tower. It was meant to be 519 metres tall but the construction stopped at the 47th floor during 2008 - the height of the financial crisis.


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## Munwon

Guangzhou must be close to New York in terms of supertalls now.


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## kunming tiger

how many supertalls does Guangzhou have U/C or Com?


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## KillerZavatar

^^
15, according to skyscrapercenter.com


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## kunming tiger

guangzhou is likely to keep 4th position on the global list for a while.


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## KillerZavatar

^^
yes, very likely. It is (still) constructing far less supertalls than the Big Three (the new CBDs other than Pazhou are in quite early stages), but it is constructing and has already quite a large buffer to not easily be caught up on by other contenders either.


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## abbas1075687

That it self has many problems; such as blocking sun view, having to support so much weight could be extremely risky. China has plenty of land they can use in the west which is mostly unpopulated, or they can build something such as a an reclaimed land from the ocean like they have in Dubai. Less costly, less problems.


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## Zaz965

China should build a supertall with many square windows like this one in Houston  
Houston skyline by Daniel Gillaspia, no Flickr


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## Booppe

2 Small project change Bangkok - Lupini park view in 2025

1. Lumpini park -South view with Silom CBD SIlom road 2020










and new look in 2025 by project Dusit Central Park, 78+46+40 Storey-299+199+199 M. : Silom

View attachment 375458








2. Lumpini park - East view with Wittayu road and Rama 4 road 2020




Metropolis by Nathapon Vaiyavuthipinyo, on Flickr











and New look in 2025 *by project One Bangkok, 92+65+61+60+58+50+50+40+21+16 Storey-437+284.7+277.65+274+263.5+251+216.4+182.6+100.7+66 M : Lumpini Park*
















update 2020

photo by
skycrapercity page


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## A Chicagoan

Zaz965 said:


> it will boost the 100m-200m buildings
> @oscillation, please, you should also make updates and new threads for 100m-200m buildings


I just created a couple of threads about 100-200 m Chinese buildings!


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## Zaz965

A Chicagoan said:


> I just created a couple of threads about 100-200 m Chinese buildings!


thanks a lot


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## A Chicagoan

Imagine if China built supertalls like this... 57 floors in 19 days!


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## KillerZavatar

A Chicagoan said:


> Imagine if China built supertalls like this... 57 floors in 19 days!


visited J57 twice. You can go up on the helipad and everything.


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## A Chicagoan

KillerZavatar said:


> visited J57 twice. You can go up on the helipad and everything.


According to the CTBUH it's currently abandoned...


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## KillerZavatar

A Chicagoan said:


> According to the CTBUH it's currently abandoned...


it's empty yes. It's build right on the area of the company and mostly serves as a showcase of what can be built, just a prototype.


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## Lincolnlover2005

I’ve been wondering if the 500 meter build limit in China would apply to regions like Macau or Hong Kong since they’re only an administrative district. Anyone got an answer?


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## KillerZavatar

Lincolnlover2005 said:


> I’ve been wondering if the 500 meter build limit in China would apply to regions like Macau or Hong Kong since they’re only an administrative district. Anyone got an answer?


i am almost certain that the build limit does not apply, but 500m in Macao won't ever happen (they don't even have a 300m building afterall) and Hong Kong failed to build a 500m in the past (Nina Towers) and hasn't had many aspirations to build that tall recently, wouldn't know what plot could be an option. I feel like the restrictions getting lifted or some city in Mainland getting special permission is more likely than HK at this point. (both very unlikely)


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## A Chicagoan

I just noticed something really interesting while doing research for the Fosun International Center thread. In Jinan's new CBD, there will be five towers each representing one of Jinan's features.









The Chamber of Fosun International Center - e-architect


Designed by T.K. Chu Design, the chamber of Fosun International Center is located in the CBD of Jinan, the capital city of Shandong Province




www.e-architect.com





*山 Mountain:* Shandong IFC | 428 m | 88 fl
*泉 Spring:* China Resources Land Plaza | 246 m | 53 fl
*湖 Lake:* Fosun International Center | 260 m | 53 fl
*河 River:* Ping An Finance Center | 360 m | 62 fl
*城 City:* CITIC Pacific Plaza | 326 m | 64 fl


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## Lincolnlover2005

Is it weird that we're already halfway into the year and not a single supertall has been completed? I know it's because of COVID but still, pretty weird


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## KillerZavatar

Lincolnlover2005 said:


> Is it weird that we're already halfway into the year and not a single supertall has been completed? I know it's because of COVID but still, pretty weird


I think around half of the world's supertalls are in China, and China isn't that affected by COVID anymore.

Haitian Center, AMA Tower are done i think,

It's not so weird, some projects just take a while to get their status updated.


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## Lincolnlover2005

I was wondering if we could create a sub forum for all the on-hold supertalls instead of having them in the proposed supertalls forum? I just feel like it would seem more organized


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## A Chicagoan

Great video featuring the "unknown" Chinese cities that we know and love here at the supertall section of SSC!


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## KillerZavatar

A Chicagoan said:


> Great video featuring the "unknown" Chinese cities that we know and love here at the supertall section of SSC!


I have heard of all of these cities! Also I was expecting Nanning for some reason.


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## A Chicagoan

KillerZavatar said:


> I have heard of all of these cities! Also I was expecting Nanning for some reason.


Me too. Also I wasn't expecting Jinan to be on there.


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## Kyll.Ing.

Since I have the time, I decided to count the number of Supertalls currently U/C in this section by country. It's a relatively quick exercise, but prone to some mistakes so I can't guarantee that the numbers are exactly correct. Anyway, it should give some pointers to where the Supertall construction activity is greatest at the moment: 

China: 81
Malaysia: 4
Thailand: 1
Mexico: 1
Kazakhstan: 1
India: 1 
UAE: 6
Sri Lanka: 1
Israel: 3
Turkey: 1
Canada: 2
Indonesia: 1
Egypt: 1
USA: 6
Poland: 1
Japan: 1


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## Lincolnlover2005

So I've compiled a list of cities with the most 500 meter, 400 meter, and 300 meter tall skyscrapers that are topped-out or completed (Measured by pinnacle height)

*500m +:*
Tianjin-2
Dubai-1
Shanghai-1
Mecca-1
Shenzhen-1
Seoul-1
New York City-1
Chicago-1
Guangzhou-1
Kuala Lumpur-1
Beijing-1
Taipei-1

City with the most 500 meter supertalls: *Tianjin

400m +:*
New York City-6
Kuala Lumpur-4
Dubai-3
Shanghai-3
Chicago-3
Tianjin-2
Guangzhou-2
Wuhan-2
Shenzhen-2
Hong Kong-2
Seoul-1
Mecca-1
Ho Chi Minh City-1
Nanning-1
Guiyang-1
Busan-1
St. Petersburg-1
Changsha-1
Beijing-1
Nanjing-1
Dongguan-1
Kuwait City-1
Taipei-1
Suzhou-1

City with the most 400 meter supertalls: *New York City

300m +:*
Dubai-30
Shenzhen-19
New York City-18
Guangzhou-10
Chicago-7
Wuhan-7
Moscow-7
Nanjing-7
Kuala Lumpur-6
Hong Kong-6
Nanning-6
Shanghai-5
Shenyang-5
Changsha-5
Chongqing-5
Guiyang-4
Busan-4
Tianjin-4
Abu Dhabi-4
Riyadh-4
Bangkok-4
Kunming-3
Houston-3
Wuxi-3
Kuwait City-3
Zhuhai-2
Seoul-2
Dalian-2
Jinan-2
Los Angeles-2
Nanchang-2
Yinchuan-2
Hangzhou-2
Melbourne-2
Suzhou-2
Beijing-2
Mecca-1
Incheon-1
Pyongyang-1
Ho Chi Minh City-1
Frankfurt-1
Fuzhou-1
Istanbul-1
Changzhou-1
Liuzhou-1
Yangzhou-1
Atlanta-1
Monterrey-1
Lanzhou-1
Nur-Sultan-1
Warsaw-1
Zhongshan-1
Jiangyin-1
San Francisco-1
Osaka-1
Yantai-1
Gold Coast-1
St. Petersburg-1
Kaohsiung-1
Dongguan-1
Santiago-1
Doha-1
Jakarta-1
Toronto-1
Zhenjiang-1
Wenzhou-1
Xi'an-1
Hanoi-1
Philadelphia-1
Taipei-1
Qingdao-1

City with the most 300 meter supertalls: *Dubai*


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

Lincolnlover2005 said:


> *400m +:*
> New York City-6
> Kuala Lumpur-4
> Dubai-4


Shouldn't the number for Dubai be 3? There's Burj Khalifa (828), Marina 101 (427), and Princess Tower (414), but the next one is 23 Marina at 393 meters. Or do you count Burj Khalifa twice because its upper half is a 414 m structure on top of another?


----------



## Codename B

Lincolnlover2005 said:


> So I've compiled a list of cities with the most 500 meter, 400 meter, and 300 meter tall skyscrapers that are topped-out or completed (Measured by pinnacle height)
> 
> *500m +:*
> Tianjin-2
> Dubai-1
> Shanghai-1
> Mecca-1
> Shenzhen-1
> Seoul-1
> New York City-1
> Chicago-1
> Guangzhou-1
> Kuala Lumpur-1
> Beijing-1
> Taipei-1
> 
> City with the most 500 meter supertalls: *Tianjin
> 
> 400m +:*
> New York City-6
> Kuala Lumpur-4
> Dubai-3
> Shanghai-3
> Chicago-3
> Tianjin-2
> Guangzhou-2
> Wuhan-2
> Shenzhen-2
> Hong Kong-2
> Seoul-1
> Mecca-1
> Ho Chi Minh City-1
> Nanning-1
> Guiyang-1
> Busan-1
> St. Petersburg-1
> Changsha-1
> Beijing-1
> Nanjing-1
> Dongguan-1
> Kuwait City-1
> Taipei-1
> Suzhou-1
> 
> City with the most 400 meter supertalls: *New York City
> 
> 300m +:*
> Dubai-30
> Shenzhen-19
> New York City-18
> Guangzhou-10
> Chicago-7
> Wuhan-7
> Moscow-7
> Nanjing-7
> Kuala Lumpur-6
> Hong Kong-6
> Nanning-6
> Shanghai-5
> Shenyang-5
> Changsha-5
> Chongqing-5
> Guiyang-4
> Busan-4
> Tianjin-4
> Abu Dhabi-4
> Riyadh-4
> Bangkok-3
> Kunming-3
> Houston-3
> Wuxi-3
> Kuwait City-3
> Zhuhai-2
> Seoul-2
> Dalian-2
> Jinan-2
> Los Angeles-2
> Nanchang-2
> Yinchuan-2
> Hangzhou-2
> Melbourne-2
> Suzhou-2
> Beijing-2
> Mecca-1
> Incheon-1
> Pyongyang-1
> Ho Chi Minh City-1
> Frankfurt-1
> Fuzhou-1
> Istanbul-1
> Changzhou-1
> Liuzhou-1
> Yangzhou-1
> Atlanta-1
> Monterrey-1
> Lanzhou-1
> Nur-Sultan-1
> Warsaw-1
> Zhongshan-1
> Jiangyin-1
> San Francisco-1
> Osaka-1
> Yantai-1
> Gold Coast-1
> St. Petersburg-1
> Kaohsiung-1
> Dongguan-1
> Santiago-1
> Doha-1
> Jakarta-1
> Toronto-1
> Zhenjiang-1
> Wenzhou-1
> Xi'an-1
> Hanoi-1
> Philadelphia-1
> Taipei-1
> Qingdao-1
> 
> City with the most 300 meter supertalls: *Dubai*


Bangkok should be 4

Iconsiam 316 M
Mahanakhon 314 M
Four Seasons 305 M
Baiyoke II 304 M


----------



## Lincolnlover2005

Codename B said:


> Bangkok should be 4
> 
> Iconsiam 316 M
> Mahanakhon 314 M
> Four Seasons 305 M
> Baiyoke II 304 M


CTBUH lists Four Seasons as 299 meters


----------



## Codename B

Lincolnlover2005 said:


> CTBUH lists Four Seasons as 299 meters


I incorrectly typed the height wrong, however it is 300.10 m. from the official EIA document.
















p. 500


http://eiadoc.onep.go.th/eialibrary/4housing/54/54_10758.pdf


----------



## Lincolnlover2005

China bans construction of tallest skyscrapers following concerns about safety


The outright ban covers buildings that go beyond 500m. Read more at straitstimes.com.




www.straitstimes.com


----------



## Naipesky

Recycled news. 

(may/2020)





China bans skyscrapers taller than 500 meters - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn


----------



## Lincolnlover2005

An update on SEG Plaza shaking:








Remember Shenzhen's Shaky Skyscraper? Here's Why It Wobbled


Local media reported that the roads around the building have been fenced off.




www.thatsmags.com


----------



## Lincolnlover2005

We’ve lost one boys,


----------



## Zaz965

0:15 helipad


----------



## Lincolnlover2005

I have a question about MetLife North.
If a developer or owner of the tower really wanted to, could it be possible to build the rest of the tower to it’s original planned height?


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

Lincolnlover2005 said:


> I have a question about MetLife North.
> If a developer or owner of the tower really wanted to, could it be possible to build the rest of the tower to it’s original planned height?


That depends on a few things. Most notably, the listing status of the existing stub of the tower. If the building is listed, there is precious little they could do.

And if it isn't, there are still a few obstacles. Most notably building codes. Does the building have the requisite number of stairwells and elevators? It's hard to add those to an existing building without changing something load-bearing, and at that point you might as well dismantle everything. And would the load-bearing capacity factor of the structure and foundations be within allowed margins with the weight of the original tower on top? It could have been designed with, for instance, a 30% margin but the current code could require 40%. Or even 60%, so that even a more lightweight structure couldn't reach the originally planned height.

Likewise, there's the matter of the local infrastructure. If the sewage system is designed for a building with, say, 3000 occupants, you'd have to do a lot of digging to increase it to 10,000. Something similar for power substations, public transport, water, you name it.

The availability of materials could be another issue, but that's easier to overcome. You probably wouldn't find anybody willing to build a structure with riveted joints or use steel according to 1930s specifications, but a quick redesign could fix that. Creating the right look of the facade might also require materials and techniques nobody uses today, but one could still make a good replica.

And then there's the debacle with air rights and zoned height limits and whatnot ...

Of course, I'm mostly talking about hypotheticals here, as I don't know the exact details about the situation in New York, but these are at least some of the obstacles that must be taken into consideration. A few of them have the potential to be dealbreakers. But if everything lines up well and the relevant laws allow for it, then sure it may be possible.


----------



## Lincolnlover2005

Well the stub of the tower was designed to support the rest of the tower, and it has 33 elevators that were originally intended for the upper floors. I can see one of the main problems for this is that no one would want to add the rest of the tower because of the cost. Limestone ain’t cheap and also the demolition of the pre existing roof would cost a lot. Would it be cool for MetLife North to be rebuilt to its original height? Yeah it would! Would it happen? Probably not


----------



## Zaz965

Lincolnlover2005 said:


> I have a question about MetLife North.
> If a developer or owner of the tower really wanted to, could it be possible to build the rest of the tower to it’s original planned height?


good question, this building is awesome, stunning


----------



## A Chicagoan

SEG Plaza bald now...

*September 27 By 雄楚大帝888 on Gaoloumi:*


----------



## Lincolnlover2005

A Chicagoan said:


> SEG Plaza bald now...
> 
> *September 27 By 雄楚大帝888 on Gaoloumi:*


It got Wuhan’d 
Demote it to the 

*S K Y S C R A P E R S T H R E A D*


----------



## PenangLion

From the comments in that particular Chinese video, one commented:
"(Implying the region was reclaimed) The region had serious rain and floods; if the piping system is not built properly, it'll cause the soil on the reclaimed land to form a "cake"-like mixture, seriously affecting the structure of the building."

Experts stated the building *swayed due to resonance from the spires*. Resonance brought down the Tacoma Narrows Bridge. So ig tht's why they brought down the spire.


----------



## Hudson11

the spire was a giant tuning fork. Im surprised this hasn't happened to this severity before.


----------



## Zaz965

now, a helicopter lands easier on the Seg Plaza 
















Tenants of shaking Shenzhen tower seek compensation as probe continues


Many tenants selling electrical goods in SEG Plaza want to be compensated for business disruption and early termination of their leases after the 72-storey skyscraper began mysteriously swaying on May 18.




www.scmp.com


----------



## Kadzman

250 metres height limit for cities less than 3 million population in China.








‘Vanity projects’: China to introduce tighter limits on skyscrapers


Buildings higher than 250 metres to be banned in cities with fewer than 3 million people




www.theguardian.com







> China has said it will restrict smaller cities from building “super skyscrapers”, as part of a broader crackdown on “vanity projects” and to reduce energy consumption.
> Skyscrapers taller than 150 metres (490ft) will be strictly limited, and those higher than 250 metres will be banned for cities with a population of fewer than 3 million.
> The authorities will also limit structures taller than 250 metres for cities with more than 3 million people.


----------



## Hudson11

Good thing most of the cities that are actually building supertalls well exceed that population rule.


----------



## KillerZavatar

cities have weird definitions in china, sometimes cities are part of other cities, sometimes boundaries go really far into nowhere land as well.


----------



## PenangLion

I think they really should base it on population density rather than the population itself. 
Some cities in China are as huge as entire provinces but some are as huge as Tokyo proper. 
e.g. Chongqing is six times larger than Shanghai but the density is 10 times less. 

Still, progress is still progress.


----------



## KillerZavatar

Chinese Source: 行业新规：住建部又发“限高令”！这次要和150米以上高楼说再见了…_腾讯新闻

the wording previously was already, cities need a special application for 250m buildings and taller, and buildings over 500m are not allowed, this is what we knew already, this new ruling uses the same wording now for smaller cities with an urban population of less than 3 million, special application for over 150m and nothing over 250m allowed.


----------



## Zaz965

my theory: the developers will compensate this fact building thicker buildings, for example: leeza soho








by 狂奔的茄子 on 500px


----------



## PenangLion

rise of the fatscrapers.


----------



## Zaz965

another fat building that I like a lot: roppongi hills
















Roppongi Hills - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Chro_matic

Apologies for the dumb question... When a building is complete, where its thread go?


----------



## A Chicagoan

Chro_matic said:


> Apologies for the dumb question... When a building is complete, where its thread go?


The Archives:








DN Archives







www.skyscrapercity.com





You can also check out the Rate Our Talls section to rate and post pictures of completed buildings:








Rate Our Talls


Supertalls | 250-299 meters | up to 250 meters | Regional Skyscrapers | TV and OB-Towers | Architecture | Visions | Skylines




www.skyscrapercity.com


----------



## Chro_matic

Ah, thank-you so much!


----------



## A Chicagoan

Cool diagrams of Greenland skyscrapers posted by 言几又言几 on Gaoloumi:








^ From left to right: Beijing, Xi'an, Nanchang, Jinan, Wuhan, Nanjing, Kunming, Hangzhou, Chengdu, Suzhou, Nanjing, Zhengzhou, Changsha


----------



## kunming tiger

KillerZavatar said:


> the 400m height restriction due to airport rights in the shenzhen bay super headquarters area is not invisible or hidden at all, it is public knowledge.


 That reminds me of an incident years ago when meeting an American making his first visit . His first first question to me was about the secret police in China. My response was " There is nothing secretive about the police, their presence in cities at least is highly visible especially around public buildings, infrastructure , major intersections. Their camera system is everywhere. Even when you enter or exit your place of residence the name and contact details of the police officer assigned to your building,


----------



## Lincolnlover2005

I know that this probably isn’t the thread to post this, but since Taiwan has 2 supertalls, one of which was the worlds tallest building, I would like to ask our mainland China members if Taipei 101 would be considered a Chinese skyscraper or a Taiwan skyscraper? Just curious


----------



## KillerZavatar

Lincolnlover2005 said:


> I know that this probably isn’t the thread to post this, but since Taiwan has 2 supertalls, one of which was the worlds tallest building, I would like to ask our mainland China members if Taipei 101 would be considered a Chinese skyscraper or a Taiwan skyscraper? Just curious


Not Chinese, but living in Mainland China.

The word China is a bit of an awkward term, because when a westerner says China, they often mean the PRC, but the word China is usually more of a regional term instead of a political one.

Taiwan is part of the region called China, everyone agrees on that. If you want to be explicit in what you mean you usually say Mainland China if you want to exclude Taiwan, HK and Macau or could say Greater China if you want to include Taiwan, HK and Macau. The two terms Mainland China and Greater China are as far as I know not as politically loaded and therefor easier to communicate what you actually want to communicate. In Chinese there are actually two words for Mainland China (one including HK+Macau and one excluding them). In English Mainland China usually excludes them by default, so you could say Mainland China, HK and Macau if you want to only exclude Taiwan.

Even weirder, sometimes you see lists on Wikipedia where Mainland China is listed as simply China, but alongside you see HK and Macau as separate entries, which is similar to lists listing the USA and Puerto Rico separately.


----------



## PenangLion

The definitions for "China" are severely limited within English. Mainland China and Greater China seems to be the most politically-neutral among all stances. A problem on classifying whether the Taiwanese are Chinese is another similar issue. In Chinese there's 中国人 and 华人 to clearly define Mainland Chinese and Chinese. Taiwanese are definitely 华人, but not really 中国人.

Taipei 101 would be a unusual type of the "Chinese skyscraper" in a cultural sense. This would be 中华 (Zhong-hua). But I won't classify Taipei 101 as a pure Taiwanese skyscraper, since Taiwanese culture is a sub-branch of the Zhong-hua culture (中华文化), hence there's no clearly defined separation. Its made to look like a bamboo.

Taipei 101 would be a skyscraper with Zhong-hua culture then (there's no term I've known of that explains Zhong-hua, if a Western interpretation of the word can be made then it would've significantly reduce all the pain of classifications by uniting both cultures under a neutral word).


----------



## Zaz965

@A Chicagoan, @little universe, if Jinan keeps this speed it will superpass Qingdao in the next 10 years


----------



## A Chicagoan

499towersofchina said:


> Chicagoan. What’s your favourite skyscraper under construction or recently completed since COVID skyscraper in China?


Recently completed:
Guangxi China Resources Tower, Nanning
Hai Tian Center, Qingdao
Heartland 66, Wuhan
Longda Towers, Hangzhou

Under construction:
Zhongnan Center, Suzhou
Chushang Building, Wuhan
Ping An Finance Center, Jinan
Hong Plaza, Jinan
TEDA IFC, Tianjin
Greenland Center, Hangzhou


----------



## Rebelado

PenangLion said:


> The definitions for "China" are severely limited within English. Mainland China and Greater China seems to be the most politically-neutral among all stances. A problem on classifying whether the Taiwanese are Chinese is another similar issue. In Chinese there's 中国人 and 华人 to clearly define Mainland Chinese and Chinese. Taiwanese are definitely 华人, but not really 中国人.
> 
> Taipei 101 would be a unusual type of the "Chinese skyscraper" in a cultural sense. This would be 中华 (Zhong-hua). But I won't classify Taipei 101 as a pure Taiwanese skyscraper, since Taiwanese culture is a sub-branch of the Zhong-hua culture (中华文化), hence there's no clearly defined separation. Its made to look like a bamboo.
> 
> Taipei 101 would be a skyscraper with Zhong-hua culture then (there's no term I've known of that explains Zhong-hua, if a Western interpretation of the word can be made then it would've significantly reduce all the pain of classifications by uniting both cultures under a neutral word).


Taiwan is clearly not part of China. Their capitalist democratic way of life is clear as the sun.


----------



## PenangLion

Rebelado said:


> Taiwan is clearly not part of China. Their capitalist democratic way of life is clear as the sun.


I don't want to touch on the sensitive political issue.
I'm saying they're both Chinese in terms of race, not geopolitical boundaries, that's something I don't want to talk about. Hence, Taipei 101 is a Chinese skyscraper, as there are no distinctive differences between a Taiwanese skyscraper and a Mainland Chinese skyscraper, they could be classified as a group.


----------



## KillerZavatar

Rebelado said:


> Taiwan is clearly not part of China. Their capitalist democratic way of life is clear as the sun.


i am not sure if you are trolling or really missed the key point of the explanation above. Nazi Germany and today Germany are both clearly culturally German even if their politics differ rather dramatically. The geographical and cultural region of China includes the island of Taiwan, this isn't a political statement. This is like saying England is a part of Europe, geographically and culturally, not politically, this isn't even contentious. The problem is that the word China has several meanings in English. When I say Canada is in America, I make no political statement, but it could just as easily be misunderstood as America also stands for a singular country on its own.

So take the sentence "Toronto is an American city". Without saying what I mean by saying America, you don't know if my geography is bad or not.


----------



## Speechless.♥

KillerZavatar said:


> the 400m height restriction due to airport rights in the shenzhen bay super headquarters area is not invisible or hidden at all, it is public knowledge.


I wasn´t talking about this area only... It works all around Shenzhen, buildings 400m+ are prohibited by unknown powers. Shenzhen is incredible, but the foby of 400m height is obvious. look how many buildings are U/C in Shenzhen, with height 388+, but noone is ready to give it 5-12 meters more, which would make the building supertall project. Please notice, that only buildings 400m+ are tourist attractions, not buildings with height over 300m+. Do you understand what I´m talking about? I´m just saying it´s a pity, but I really love Shenzhen and the development of Shenzhen is higher than in any other city in China.


----------



## KillerZavatar

so much on hold, we can't catch a break



thestealthyartist said:


> New change by the owner, all U/C and Proposed skyscrapers are now blurred to differentiate from built ones until they are completed. Not exactly popular in the community.


we finally got an update, the decision was done due to legal reasons, best we find a way to unblur them via script for now and wait for some other solutions.


----------



## thestealthyartist

KillerZavatar said:


> so much on hold, we can't catch a break
> 
> 
> we finally got an update, the decision was done due to legal reasons, best we find a way to unblur them via script for now and wait for some other solutions.


Man, that's just sad...dark age of skyscrapers, where SSP gets broken for legal reasons, China limits tall buildings, and everything goes on-hold.


----------



## KillerZavatar

It's ridiculous. Copyright is a joke anyway.


----------



## thestealthyartist

KillerZavatar said:


> It's ridiculous.


Well, the law is the law. Luckily we are getting revisions to the policy to minimize the blurred buildings, but will it be enough?


----------



## A Chicagoan

KillerZavatar said:


> so much on hold, we can't catch a break
> 
> 
> we finally got an update, the decision was done due to legal reasons, best we find a way to unblur them via script for now and wait for some other solutions.


What kind of legal reasons?

I'm guessing it's because drawings of U/C buildings are considered derivative works of copyrighted renders?


----------



## Zaz965

what empty was guangzhou on this photo 🥶 













zhujiangnewcity - cyguangzhou







sites.google.com


----------



## Zaz965

take a look at this awesome chart
shenzhen and hong kong  
















A tale of two cities: Shenzhen Vs Hong Kong


After Deng Xiaoping’s reforms Shenzhen developed rapidly and is arguably surpassing Hong Kong as China’s leading city for industry and technology




multimedia.scmp.com


----------



## Twopsy

Zaz965 said:


> what empty was guangzhou on this photo 🥶
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zhujiangnewcity - cyguangzhou
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sites.google.com


I was in Guangzhou in 2006 when it looked pretty much like that. Those buildings and similar looking buildings at the at the opposite side were standing there quite alone. Today they are surrounded by skyscrapers and a huge park with an underground shopping mall below it. It is amazing how the city was transformed. It already was inpressive in 2006, but since then it changed a lot.


----------



## Zaz965

@KillerZavatar , @A Chicagoan, @kenamour, I noticed wuhan is boosting lately, are there many high-tech companies in wuhan?


----------



## Zaz965

ultra high performance concrete (uhpc) - 120MPa. I hope it will boost civil construction  













Ultra-High Performance Concrete


Ultra High Performance Concrete (UHPC)




www.cement.org


----------



## Zaz965

curiosity: Jin Mao during construction 1997
opening: 1998










https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Shanghai_Jin_Mao_1997.jpg



oriental pearl tower under construction 









__
https://www.reddit.com/r/CityPorn/comments/bp4hvz


----------



## Zaz965

why do many people find central plaza hong kong ugly? I find gorgeous  
















The HONG KONG Night Time Photo Collection


Tram in Hong Kong by M4RTYR DJ, on Flickr




www.skyscrapercity.com


----------



## Zaz965

Taizhou almost got a supertall, but it is only a 299-meter building 😭 😭 








by simbaxyk on 500px








TAIZHOU (ZJ) | Tiansheng Center | 299m | 981ft | 66 fl | T/O


@zwamborn, @A Chicagoan, @kanye, @Munwon, are there updates? :love:




www.skyscrapercity.com


----------



## Lincolnlover2005

Here we go again...

*China skyscraper plans teeter as new height rules further complicate high-concept projects for indebted developers*

The country’s top planning agency will no longer approve buildings taller than 500 metres, and will strictly limit those above 250 metres
Cash-strapped developers may have to re-do plans or even sell partially built projects at a loss
Plans for a new generation of skyscrapers that would soar above the skylines of Chinese cities may come back down to earth thanks to a new government-imposed height limit that complicates such projects for developers already struggling to endure a debt crisis.
The situation may force cash-strapped developers to literally go back to the drawing board on some buildings, or sell partially built projects at huge discounts, further weighing on their liquidity.
New buildings taller than 500 metres (1,640 feet) will no longer be approved, while towers exceeding 250 metres will be strictly limited, according to a document issued on July 12 by the National Development and Reform Commission, the country’s top planning agency. The commission also said structures taller than 100 metres must strictly match the scale and the fire-rescue capacity of their locations.
“It is definitely bad news for the developers who have skyscrapers under development, particularly those distressed ones,” said Kenny Ng Lai-yin, a strategist at Everbright Securities International. “Without the favourable policies, these skyscrapers could become hot potatoes.”
Zhongnan Group, for example, slashed the height of *Zhongnan Center* in eastern Jiangsu Province’s Suzhou from its original 729 metres to 499.2 metres to meet the requirement, which was first announced a year ago.
The 103-floor tower, currently under construction, is slated for completion in 2025. But concerns are swirling as the company’s major listed arm, Zhongnan Construction Group, asked its offshore creditors to extend the maturities of two US-dollar denominated bonds in June.
“We may see some of the skyscrapers halted in the middle of construction for a rather long time, as it may take a longer time to seal a takeover deal,” Ng said. “And the developer may have to sell it at a huge discount or even book a loss, because whoever takes it over may have to change the existing design and construction with the official ban coming in.”
China, home to almost half of the world’s 100 tallest buildings, currently has 27 unfinished skyscrapers, eight of which have been put on hold, according to the Chicago-based Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat.
Some of the projects on the list belong to Chinese developers who are already struggling to pay their creditors and suppliers, while also running behind on delivering residential homes they have already sold.
The world’s most indebted property developer, China Evergrande, which defaulted on its junk bond last December, has been involved with two suspended skyscrapers.
Tycoon Hui Ka-yan kicked off construction of the 518-metre *Evergrande Hefei Center T1* in eastern Anhui Province in 2016. With an estimated investment of 16 billion yuan (US$2.4 billion), the project has been sitting idle since 2019.
Meanwhile, in May Evergrande announced a deal selling *City Light Plaza* in the eastern Zhejiang province city of Ningbo to Zhejiang SASAC and Zhejiang Construction Group for 1.3 billion yuan. Construction of the planned 453.5-metre Evergrande City Light started in 2021 right before the Evergrande crisis began, and was slated for completion in 2026.
In Shenzhen, a *700-metre, 50-billion-yuan tower* that was meant to rise above southern China’s tech hub by 2027 or 2028 seems unlikely to do so now, after developer Shimao Group, which defaulted on a US$1 billion bond in July, reportedly put the site on the market in January to ease its debts.
Five of the 27 uncompleted skyscrapers belong to the state-backed Greenland Group, whose US bonds were downgraded by S&P for default risks in June.
“Skyscrapers are like luxury goods sought after by the irrationality of local governments, developers and some individual investors when the economy is booming,” said Maggie Hu, an assistant professor of real estate and finance at The Chinese University of Hong Kong.
Skyscraper construction went into overdrive in China during the 1990s as the country’s rapid economic development catapulted the country to second place among world economies and made the nation’s factories the world’s workshops.
“Now, it would be a wise choice for [developers] to change the original planning, or look for a third party to take over the projects,” Hu said.

From 








China skyscraper plans teeter as indebted developers face new height rules


Plans for skyscrapers that would soar above Chinese cities may come back down to earth thanks to a new government-imposed height limit that complicates such projects for cash-strapped developers.




www.scmp.com


----------



## NewYorkCity76

Lincolnlover2005 said:


> Here we go again...
> 
> *China skyscraper plans teeter as new height rules further complicate high-concept projects for indebted developers*
> 
> The country’s top planning agency will no longer approve buildings taller than 500 metres, and will strictly limit those above 250 metres
> Cash-strapped developers may have to re-do plans or even sell partially built projects at a loss
> Plans for a new generation of skyscrapers that would soar above the skylines of Chinese cities may come back down to earth thanks to a new government-imposed height limit that complicates such projects for developers already struggling to endure a debt crisis.
> The situation may force cash-strapped developers to literally go back to the drawing board on some buildings, or sell partially built projects at huge discounts, further weighing on their liquidity.
> New buildings taller than 500 metres (1,640 feet) will no longer be approved, while towers exceeding 250 metres will be strictly limited, according to a document issued on July 12 by the National Development and Reform Commission, the country’s top planning agency. The commission also said structures taller than 100 metres must strictly match the scale and the fire-rescue capacity of their locations.
> “It is definitely bad news for the developers who have skyscrapers under development, particularly those distressed ones,” said Kenny Ng Lai-yin, a strategist at Everbright Securities International. “Without the favourable policies, these skyscrapers could become hot potatoes.”
> Zhongnan Group, for example, slashed the height of *Zhongnan Center* in eastern Jiangsu Province’s Suzhou from its original 729 metres to 499.2 metres to meet the requirement, which was first announced a year ago.
> The 103-floor tower, currently under construction, is slated for completion in 2025. But concerns are swirling as the company’s major listed arm, Zhongnan Construction Group, asked its offshore creditors to extend the maturities of two US-dollar denominated bonds in June.
> “We may see some of the skyscrapers halted in the middle of construction for a rather long time, as it may take a longer time to seal a takeover deal,” Ng said. “And the developer may have to sell it at a huge discount or even book a loss, because whoever takes it over may have to change the existing design and construction with the official ban coming in.”
> China, home to almost half of the world’s 100 tallest buildings, currently has 27 unfinished skyscrapers, eight of which have been put on hold, according to the Chicago-based Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat.
> Some of the projects on the list belong to Chinese developers who are already struggling to pay their creditors and suppliers, while also running behind on delivering residential homes they have already sold.
> The world’s most indebted property developer, China Evergrande, which defaulted on its junk bond last December, has been involved with two suspended skyscrapers.
> Tycoon Hui Ka-yan kicked off construction of the 518-metre *Evergrande Hefei Center T1* in eastern Anhui Province in 2016. With an estimated investment of 16 billion yuan (US$2.4 billion), the project has been sitting idle since 2019.
> Meanwhile, in May Evergrande announced a deal selling *City Light Plaza* in the eastern Zhejiang province city of Ningbo to Zhejiang SASAC and Zhejiang Construction Group for 1.3 billion yuan. Construction of the planned 453.5-metre Evergrande City Light started in 2021 right before the Evergrande crisis began, and was slated for completion in 2026.
> In Shenzhen, a *700-metre, 50-billion-yuan tower* that was meant to rise above southern China’s tech hub by 2027 or 2028 seems unlikely to do so now, after developer Shimao Group, which defaulted on a US$1 billion bond in July, reportedly put the site on the market in January to ease its debts.
> Five of the 27 uncompleted skyscrapers belong to the state-backed Greenland Group, whose US bonds were downgraded by S&P for default risks in June.
> “Skyscrapers are like luxury goods sought after by the irrationality of local governments, developers and some individual investors when the economy is booming,” said Maggie Hu, an assistant professor of real estate and finance at The Chinese University of Hong Kong.
> Skyscraper construction went into overdrive in China during the 1990s as the country’s rapid economic development catapulted the country to second place among world economies and made the nation’s factories the world’s workshops.
> “Now, it would be a wise choice for [developers] to change the original planning, or look for a third party to take over the projects,” Hu said.
> 
> From
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> China skyscraper plans teeter as indebted developers face new height rules
> 
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> Plans for skyscrapers that would soar above Chinese cities may come back down to earth thanks to a new government-imposed height limit that complicates such projects for cash-strapped developers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.scmp.com


What a shame. I guess the crown for most supertalls may go to NYC instead eventually


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## Lincolnlover2005

NewYorkCity76 said:


> What a shame. I guess the crown for most supertalls may go to NYC instead eventually


You make it sound like that’s a bad thing


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## NewYorkCity76

Lincolnlover2005 said:


> You make it sound like that’s a bad thing


Well, right now the country still holds the lead of having more supertalls globally. But if the ban is enforced (that includes buildings over 250 meters), then my guess is that eventually, the U.S. and/or even UAE may take the crown away from China.


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## KillerZavatar

Not really new info, but a more comprehensive article of what we knew already.


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## Lincolnlover2005

So SkyscraperPage has a 358 meter tower in Cambodia U/C, no sources, not even a location. @KillerZavatar, you seem to be one of the building moderators on the site so could you take a look and see if this one is legit? 








I made the thread to the tower just in case it’s a real one!








PHNOM PENH | Naga 3 | 358m | 1175ft | 75 fl | 61 fl x 2...


SkyscraperPage says it’s a supertall, and numerous sources claim it’s at least 75 floors, so let’s see how this turns out: NagaCorp declares it is proceeding “full steam ahead” with Naga3, its bid to vault into the top tier of the world’s integrated resorts. Even with COVID-19 closing...




www.skyscrapercity.com


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## KillerZavatar

it was added just last week by a user that I do not know.


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