# [HR] Croatia | road infrastructure • Ceste & Autoceste



## krzamak




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## krzamak




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## snupix

Some videos from Croatian highways... by Mate Balota:


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## SinCity

Very nice motorways naturally passing through some fantastic scenery. kay:


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## Bahnsteig4

I spent 2 1/2 hrs in a jam like the one in the pics above. But the scenery made up for it. I would die being held in a jam between, let's say Padova and Verona or Vienna and Linz.


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## Alex Von Königsberg

Croatian motorways seem superb, and it is too bad I haven't had a chance to visit this country yet. So far, the best motorways I drove on in Eastern Europe were czech dàlnice, but from the above photos it looks like Croatia may be a match for Czechia kay:


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## tonycro

Tnx Krz ,


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## krzamak

*A3 Motorway Zagreb - Lipovac*


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## BL

nice photos, great highways


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## nikolas

*EU access negotiations and Croatians*



snupix said:


> Why? We're going to join the EU and Schengen soon anyway, so there will really be no need for a thing like this... Only in case that we don't join the EU...


http://www.jutarnji.hr/dogadjaji_dana/clanak/art-2007,2,11,istrazivanje_eu,62157.jl
The OFFICIAL survey published for the Public finances institute and done by Prof.Stulhofer of the Faculty of Philosophy in Zagreb shows that the Croatians have always been misstrustful towards the EU. 54% were so even in 2003, when almost 80% of the population was FOR the EU access. Since 2004 the number of "euroskeptics" (those who would vote against the EU membership) is growing and it is OFFICIALLY over 40% now. It is OFFICIALLY greater than the number of "europhyles", because a certain percentage (over 20%) of the people answer they do not know yet. Euroskeptics represent a "coherent sociopolitical option with stable symbolic and material interests", the survey reports. It is some kind of reality admission. The government must be aware (and it seems to be so) that the ostrich head-in-the-sand behavior wouldn't pay.
But, if we are able to build such nice motorways (and many other things), what do we need the EU for? Motorways are built to connect people. We are in touch with Europe and always will be. WHAT DO WE NEED THE EU MEMBERSHIP FOR?


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## snupix

nikolas said:


> http://www.jutarnji.hr/dogadjaji_dana/clanak/art-2007,2,11,istrazivanje_eu,62157.jl
> The OFFICIAL survey published for the Public finances institute and done by Prof.Stulhofer of the Faculty of Philosophy in Zagreb shows that the Croatians have always been misstrustful towards the EU. 54% were so even in 2003, when almost 80% of the population was FOR the EU access. Since 2004 the number of "euroskeptics" (those who would vote against the EU membership) is growing and it is OFFICIALLY over 40% now. It is OFFICIALLY greater than the number of "europhyles", because a certain percentage (over 20%) of the people answer they do not know yet. Euroskeptics represent a "coherent sociopolitical option with stable symbolic and material interests", the survey reports. It is some kind of reality admission. The government must be aware (and it seems to be so) that the ostrich head-in-the-sand behavior wouldn't pay.
> But, if we are able to build such nice motorways (and many other things), what do we need the EU for? Motorways are built to connect people. We are in touch with Europe and always will be. WHAT DO WE NEED THE EU MEMBERSHIP FOR?


Nikolas, you know that there's no alternative and that we have to join EU eventually, otherwise we won't survive - we're not Norway nor Switzerland... So...


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## nikolas

snupix said:


> Nikolas, you know that there's no alternative and that we have to join EU eventually, otherwise we won't survive - we're not Norway nor Switzerland... So...


There are many alternatives... as always. 
The world is changing. The EU will never play a role politically. There is China (pop. 1,4 bil), India (population 1 bilion), there is Russia, Brasil... So, USA and EU will no longer be the only masters of the world. Be aware of that. Perheps not being a EU member can be an advantage. Perheps we should join the BRIC economic area? (Brasil, Russia, India, China).
BTW, Norway has 4,6 milion inhabitants, more or less as Croatia. *Do you believe that they have more resources than us* there in the north? Norwegians voted against the EU membership *twice*. First time in 1972 (when Danes joined the EU) and in 1994 (when Sweden and Finland joined the EU), mostly because they didn't want to give up their sea and fishery to all the EU nations. However, they remained a part of the European economic area and EFTA. For the 5th consecutive year they're on top of the HDI (development index)... 
What we need is a membership in the EFTA as Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and in the European economic area as Norway and Iceland, or bilateral agreements as Switzerland.
It is possible, but we are *politically blackmailed* because they want us to be obedient. They don't want a strong neutral Croatia.
So, voting for the EU, you choose to be a slave of the actual political masters of the world. I DON'T WANT THAT. So, I'll vote against. Maybe they will manipulate the voting. However, I'm sure that the membership won't bring us any good.
I THINK WE SHOULD SEEK SOME KIND OF NEUTRALITY. For example, to be both a member of EEA/EFTA and BRIC.


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## Giorgio

They look VERY similar to Greek motorways!
Nice!


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## Verso

Modern freeways with breathtaking scenery! :cheers:


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## Ballota

> Some videos from Croatian highways... by Mate Balota:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJiATzCsJRM


Thanx man! kay:

One of my favourite pics:









Interchange "Zagreb - South 1"

:cheers:


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## caco

Espetacular!


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## dadekhr

Western enter to Zagreb:






































Western exit from Zagreb:


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## krzamak

*A1 Motorway Zagreb - Split ("Krka" bridge)*


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## krzamak

*A1 Motorway Zagreb - Split*


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## snupix

Visit:

http://www.hac.hr/index.php?lng=en

---> A1 Interactive guide (Aero photo is a must-see! - Croatian sceneries on the way to the coast + the Interactive Guide with all the cities, sights and national parks)
---> Sv. Rok Tunnel guide
---> E-Brochures (I recommend)
---> Maps
---> +Much, much more!

:cheers:


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## Nephasto

^Is the A1 really being extended in the direction of Dubrovnik until 2008?

How are they going to do to cross that Bosnian bit of country? Is the motorway going through Bosnia, or is that being avoided by building the motorway in that croatian island paralel to the coast?



Another thing... it the A-6 really completed?! Is Rijecta connected to Zagreb by motorway?!
It sure doesn't look like that on www.viamichelin.com... and that map is updated.
Same goes for the A-8 and A-9. Do they really exist as motorways?! Or are they just fast roads?


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## Nephasto

^^Ok, i've checked on the website and confirmed that A-6, A-8 and A-9 are not motorways, but fast roads (single carrigeways) with no level crossings.

Why are they called A-*, as if they're motorways?


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## zasina

Fantastic photos and motorways!


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## Bori427

Great motorways,they look a lot like PuertoRican freeways (except these are more clean and with few traffic).


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## Nephasto

Bori427 said:


> Great motorways,they look a lot like PuertoRican freeways (except these are more clean and with few traffic).


And what does that mean?!

I could equally say that they look alot like portuguese freeways. And like all other freeways in europe.


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## snupix

Nephasto said:


> ^^Ok, i've checked on the website and confirmed that A-6, A-8 and A-9 are not motorways, but fast roads (single carrigeways) with no level crossings.
> 
> Why are they called A-*, as if they're motorways?


Completion of A6 as a full motorway is in 2008. A8 and A9 are called A* because they're going to be upgraded to a full motorway very soon, so they wanted to avoid confusion with changing the name later... Construction of A8 and A9 second lane is going to start very soon, maybe even this year, I don't know the date...


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## snupix

Nephasto said:


> ^Is the A1 really being extended in the direction of Dubrovnik until 2008?
> 
> How are they going to do to cross that Bosnian bit of country? Is the motorway going through Bosnia, or is that being avoided by building the motorway in that croatian island paralel to the coast?


Yes, they're extending it, first section from Split to Šestanovac is about to open this summer, I'm not sure about the date for the completion all the way to Dubrovnik. But for the Split to Ploče (Bosnian border) section, the year is definitely 2008. There are two ways of crossing Bosnia:

1. A bridge is being built from Croatian land to the Pelješac peninsula to avoid Bosnia

2. There will be the same old road through Bosnia as before, maybe there will be a highway built without exits in Bosnia, but that is still not known.


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## ChrisZwolle

Nephasto said:


> ^^Ok, i've checked on the website and confirmed that A-6, A-8 and A-9 are not motorways, but fast roads (single carrigeways) with no level crossings.
> 
> Why are they called A-*, as if they're motorways?


I heard they reconstruct them to motorways if enough traffic is there. That doesn't seems to be a problem with tourism in Istria.


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## snupix




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## x-type

Nephasto said:


> Why are they called A-*, as if they're motorways?


A6 is called A because it is going to be upgraded to full profile really soon. and it is not full fast road, it has some sections allready built in full motorway profile. so you have sitaution like this: from knot Bosiljevo (A1) there is about 2 km full profile built. then you have fast road till viaduct Hambarište (before exit Vrbovsko). then full profile, and again after tunnel Čardak fast road till toll station Grobnik, where it becomes full profiled again and lasts till entrance to Rijeka. at all - you have about 50 km of fast road and 30 km of motorway.

A8 and A9 actualy are signed as B8 and B9 (i'm not sure for B9, but B8 100%). B means "brza cesta" what means "fast road". those roads are under different concession company, so they decided to sign'em as B roads. all down the way at B8 you have B signs, not A


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## ChrisZwolle

How about that A11 from Zagreb to Sisak? When will it be completed? Will it eventually extend into Bosnia? (Banja Luka or so).


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## BL

^^ there is a plan for A11 extension to BiH, but it has to be done bilateral. Bosnia is building highway from Banja Luka to Prijedor so this highway ought to be extended toward Sisak and Zagreb. Federation of BiH also plans to connect on this highway from Bihac, but this plans are not sure.


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## BL

As for Neum nothing is decided yet. maybe highway toward Dubrovnik will go trough Herzegovina all the way. There are more possibilities.


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## ChrisZwolle

Cheapest will be that they build a motorway through that tiny piece of Bosnia without exits or border crossings. 

We had that once on a provincial road in Limburg, The Netherlands, there were a few kilometers through Germany without exit-possibilities.


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## BL

U don´t understand what i wanted to say, there is possibility that the highway would go all the way trough Herzegovina from Ploce or Neum till Dubrovnik and than to Montenegro, with an exit to Dubrovnik. It is much more cheaper and more ecological. 
Something like this:


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## ChrisZwolle

How is the terrain on Bosnian side? Similar like around Zadar and Split?

A motorway to Montenegro would be very good for tourism and trade.


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## snupix

BL said:


> U don´t understand what i wanted to say, there is possibility that the highway would go all the way trough Herzegovina from Ploce or Neum till Dubrovnik and than to Montenegro, with an exit to Dubrovnik. It is much more cheaper and more ecological.


There is no chance for such a scenario, maybe just last few kilometres will run through Bosnia.

1. Bosnia has no interest in this, there are no bigger Bosnian cities around
2. Croatia will build its own motorway till Dubrovnik, and that's right what we want to avoid - going through Bosnia. That's why we're building the bridge anyway


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## Verso

BL said:


>


Bosnia and Herzegovin*i*a? :crazy:


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## BL

snupix said:


> There is no chance for such a scenario, maybe just last few kilometres will run through Bosnia.
> 
> 1. Bosnia has no interest in this, there are no bigger Bosnian cities around
> 2. Croatia will build its own motorway till Dubrovnik, and that's right what we want to avoid - going through Bosnia. *That's why we're building the bridge anyway*


I thought u r building bridge coz u don´t want peljesac to be isolated and not for avoiding bosnia? 
I have just said that possibility coz the croatian politicians and media talked and reported about that. It would be cheaper at least 2 times.


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## BL

Chris1491 said:


> How is the terrain on Bosnian side? Similar like around Zadar and Split?
> 
> A motorway to Montenegro would be very good for tourism and trade.


it is flat.


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## snupix

BL said:


> I thought u r building bridge coz u don´t want peljesac to be isolated and not for avoiding bosnia?
> I have just said that possibility coz the croatian politicians and media talked and reported about that. It would be cheaper at least 2 times.


Ofcourse that the bridge is being built so border crossings could be avoided, AND to revive Pelješac, but the main reason is to connect the Croatian territories...

Highway should reach Dubrovnik by the end of the decade, so if Croatia leaves the Neum - Dubrovnik part to BH to build, it won't be built at least for the next 20 years (it's the last thing that BH needs to build)... That's why I don't see that option as possible.


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## BL

It is not my idea. Maybe concession could help.


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## krzamak

*A1 Zagreb-Split video clip* :cheers:


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## krzamak

*Crazy R-1 driver from Croatia* :nuts: :nuts: hno:


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## x-type

ovaj drugi klip s motorom nije na hrvatskoj, već na slovenskoj autocesti


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## Verso

^ Baš sam si mislio, odkad brzini kažete 'hitrost'.:crazy: Da, mislim da je ovo kranjska obilaznica, ali možda je vozač iz Hrvatske.


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## ChrisZwolle

x-type said:


> ovaj drugi klip s motorom nije na hrvatskoj, već na slovenskoj autocesti


I don't speak Croatian or Slovenian at all, but are you saying, that this clip isn't a motorway in Croatia, but an motorway in Slovenia?


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## x-type

Chris1491 said:


> I don't speak Croatian or Slovenian at all, but are you saying, that this clip isn't a motorway in Croatia, but an motorway in Slovenia?


yes. Verso says that he thinks that it is A2 near Kranj. first clip (from car) is in Croatia, A1 between Gornja Ploča and Sveti Rok.


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## Gertzy

Damn, Croatian Motorways look awesome, looks like a very nice place too, would like to visit there someday.


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## snupix

More fresh pictures! A7 Rupa - Žuta lokva :cheers: 

Pictures are from our newest Croatian member, delfino! 
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=250324&page=2


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## snupix

Some from me from yesterday:


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## Verso

^^ Great photos!:cheers:



snupix said:


>


I thought Croatia was still using the good ol' Yugoslav sign: as Slovenia still does. You're more into Germany now?


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## Ballota

I love this:









:cheers:


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## Jasoo_

Autoputevi su stvarno za 10! Svake godine se vozimo kroz Bosnu&h sve do Stoca, naporan put. Nikad neznas sta ce te sacekati na putu sve od pad kamenja pa do krava i koza, SRAMOTA! Kako god Hrvatska nam je nasla rjesenje! Prosle godine smo po prvi put vozili od Stoca do Splita i onda pravac za Zagreb. Stigli za 3 h i 30 minuta  Voznja je sasvim slobodna, kako smo mi bez problema letili 170 km / h


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## Rebasepoiss

English please!!!


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## G.N

well, not much to say besides that im impressed by the speed, seems like theres an grand opening of a new part of the motorway every single week in Croatia


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## ChrisZwolle

Jasoo_ said:


> Autoputevi su stvarno za 10! Svake godine se vozimo kroz Bosnu&h sve do Stoca, naporan put. Nikad neznas sta ce te sacekati na putu sve od pad kamenja pa do krava i koza, SRAMOTA! Kako god Hrvatska nam je nasla rjesenje! Prosle godine smo po prvi put vozili od Stoca do Splita i onda pravac za Zagreb. Stigli za 3 h i 30 minuta  Voznja je sasvim slobodna, kako smo mi bez problema letili 170 km / h


do you have subtitles? :nuts:


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## snupix

Let's go to the coast!!! A6 Zagreb - Rijeka






















































































































Welcome to the Adriatic!




























































































Učka "Volcano":


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## ChrisZwolle

Great scenery near the Adriatic! Better than the French coast!


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## Billpa

snupix said:


>



That's an insanely THICK line leading to the gore...I love it!:cheers:


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## Verso

Thanks for the A6, snupix! I love Gorski Kotar! :cheers:


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## Alex Von Königsberg

Damn it, it is decided that my next vacation I will spend in Croatia. Besides, I have always wanted to visit Dubrovnik and see those famous red-tiled roofs


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## snupix

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Damn it, it is decided that my next vacation I will spend in Croatia. Besides, I have always wanted to visit Dubrovnik and see those famous red-tiled roofs


Welcome! :cheers:


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## x-type

Verso said:


> ^^ Great photos!:cheers:
> 
> I thought Croatia was still using the good ol' Yugoslav sign: as Slovenia still does. You're more into Germany now?


that's new thing. i think that we are using that square shape in last few months. for instance, i've seen it at new knot Kosnica on Zagreb bypass. and it is quite ugly in green colour. this blue for motor-vehicles-only looks good.


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## Verso

^^ In green color?? Btw, where's Kosnica? I thought the whole Zagreb bypass was 'autocesta'.


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## x-type

Verso said:


> ^^ In green color?? Btw, where's Kosnica? I thought the whole Zagreb bypass was 'autocesta'.


no no, real motorway sign (C69 in Croatia) is also square shaped in new regulation, that's what i meant when i said green.
Kosnica is in south-eastern part, between Ivanja Reka and Buzin at A3. it is not opened yet, but everything is done on the knot. if you heard about Domovinski Most - that's there


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## x-type

so, i meant this sign:









i made this out from german blue motorway sign, but our is not that pretty because croatian doesn't have rounded corners as german.


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## Verso

^^ Oh, that's sth new for me... About Domovinski most: I just read today that they fu*ked up connecting it with some road.


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## x-type

Verso said:


> : I just read today that they fu*ked up connecting it with some road.


uu, they did indeed! level of bridge was 1,20 m above level of the road :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: idiots. Bandić is mad, he's out of himself. somebody's gonna be very fired


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## KHS

Kako su uspjeli tako zeznut? Stvarno mi nije jasno.


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## Ballota

Split bypass:















































































































































































































:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

Great pics!

http://i16.tinypic.com/2qlh4wj.jpg

Why 60 kph?


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## Ballota

Chris1491 said:


> Why 60 kph?


Hmmmm....strange.... :?

------------------------------

One rainy day on A1...filmed by me  :





The ride goes in a Split - Zagreb direction.
It starts just after the Maslenica bridge...over some viaducts (with transparent windbrakers), than through three shorter tunnels.
At the end we enter a 5.600m long Sv. Rok tunnel, and exit in foresty Lika area... :cheers:


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## DanielFigFoz

Wow very nice!


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## x-type

Chris1491 said:


> Great pics!
> 
> http://i16.tinypic.com/2qlh4wj.jpg
> 
> Why 60 kph?


that section is often very crowded and a lot of accidents happened


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## KHS

Picture of A1 near Maslenica taken last summer.



Maslenica bridges


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## Ballota

x-type said:


> that section is often very crowded and a lot of accidents happened


But that hasn't stoped me and my friend to drive at 180kph there (3min 30sec into the movie)  :





:cheers2:


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## Alex Von Königsberg

Mate_Bolota, do you have a real-time videos? I like to see how traffic system is organised in Croatia, but because it is too fast, I can't catch any glimpse at road signs, markings, etc.


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## x-type

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Mate_Bolota, do you have a real-time videos? I like to see how traffic system is organised in Croatia, but because it is too fast, I can't catch any glimpse at road signs, markings, etc.


i have, but not some quality. yu cannot read letters on signs, but you can see them where they appear (i'm guess that's what you're interested in).

so, A3 approaching toll station Ivanja Reka at eastern entrance to Zagreb
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InqKtZOFU7A

A3 right after toll station Ivanja Reka. actually, the whole clip is driving trrew knot Ivanja reka where A3 continues into Zagreb's bypass (direction on video), exit Zagreb East and exit to A4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrzXl0evXPs


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## snupix

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Mate_Bolota, do you have a real-time videos? I like to see how traffic system is organised in Croatia, but because it is too fast, I can't catch any glimpse at road signs, markings, etc.


Don't let him see how they drive in Split :lol: :lol:


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## snupix

And some photos from the A7/D8:

Čavle:










Ind. zone Kukuljanovo?













































Exit 10 Sv.Kuzam/Bakar































































































































Exit 9 RI Draga






















































Junction 8: RI-Orehovica





























:cheers:


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## KHS

kay:


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## Giorgio

Looks so much like Greece's new highways!


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## Verso

Awesome reportages, snupix! :applause: Gorski Kotar kicks ass with its beauty!

What's this though?


snupix said:


>


And btw, how come there's no sign for Novo mesto by Karlovac, only by Bosiljevo? 

And I'm surprised that the expressway south of Rijeka is designated as A7 AND D8! Why isn't the old road D8?


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## x-type

Verso said:


> Awesome reportages, snupix! :applause: Gorski Kotar kicks ass with its beauty!
> 
> What's this though?
> 
> And btw, how come there's no sign for Novo mesto by Karlovac, only by Bosiljevo?


yes, that's interesting, i haven't noticed that it would be good to have one at Karlovac too. but i'm sure when we build exit Novigrad (between Karlovac and Bosiljevo) there will be sign to NM and it will be the shortest route


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## Verso

^ Because now, when you leave the motorway by Karlovac, you firstly have to drive through Karlovac in order to reach the road for NM, right?


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## x-type

right. but through Karlovac you have fast city road (famous because of horrible crowds befor motorways were built). after Kupa bridge you take first turn right and you're on D6 in direction NM. i have never traveled along that road. and future exit Novigrad will be near 15th km of D6 from KA in direction NM. maybe you have allready noticed that everything is prepared for that exit on motorway, i really don't know why didn't they do it yet


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## snupix

Verso said:


> Awesome reportages, snupix! :applause: Gorski Kotar kicks ass with its beauty!
> 
> What's this though?
> 
> And btw, how come there's no sign for Novo mesto by Karlovac, only by Bosiljevo?
> 
> And I'm surprised that the expressway south of Rijeka is designated as A7 AND D8! Why isn't the old road D8?


Thank you...  It's the exit of the tunnel, I don't know why there is this wall...

I also think it should be D8, but I guess it's temporary until they build the real A7...


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## radi6404

Awesome motorways, they are really very good and probably the best ones in europe.


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## cezarsab

nice croatia....five stars highways


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## snupix

A3 near Zagreb by NikolaZGB at http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=463684&page=21


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## ChrisZwolle

Zagreb 1995:


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## radi6404

Chris1491 said:


> Zagreb 1995:


this looks nicer than all the concrete used nowadays.


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## ChrisZwolle

radi6404 said:


> this looks nicer than all the concrete used nowadays.


I'm sure you like The Netherlands then. We barely use concrete roads.


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## x-type

i can't believe that you've got the photo from that time! look, there is still Varaždin direction to that exit (old road, no A4 yet).

here's the same place 2006  

sorry, now i see it's A3  i posted wrong location


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## Verso

Wow, what an ancient photo!  I see you didn't have "Budapest" yet.

At least we had "H"  and now we even have "Lenti"!  :lol:


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## x-type

Verso said:


> At least we had "H"  and now we even have "Lenti"!  :lol:


you're so proud of fuckin Lenti


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## Verso

^ :lol:


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## ChrisZwolle

Are there any pics from the entire A3 from Zagreb eastward towards the Serbian border? Or did i miss them?


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## x-type

you missed them. go to first page of this thread, there you have links for croatian motorways I, II, III and IV. good luck in searching them! 
but there is absolutely nothing interesting on A3. only large object is bridge over river Sava (about 1000 m long, but nothing special) on Zagreb bypass. and if you like toll stations - there are 3 head toll stations (near Bregana, near Zagreb east (Ivanja Reka) and near Lipovac)


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## edolen1

^^Probably just an odd perspective.


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## x-type

Billpa said:


> Is that a typical exit/on ramp setup?
> Seems very small for a motorway.


do you mean accelerating track? if yes, then it just seems to be too short because in Croatia they are much longer then Italian or French perhaps. not that long as Austrian, but enough.


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## Astralis

Zagreb - Macelj highway report http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=483899

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


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## radi6404

Chris1491 said:


> Are there any pics from the entire A3 from Zagreb eastward towards the Serbian border? Or did i miss them?


I am lookin for that also, there are about 80 km of that motorway which are extremly new, i was blwon away when i left serbia and imediatelly the shiny motorway began instead of the ugly old road which was there.


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## renco

radi6404 said:


> I am lookin for that also, there are about 80 km of that motorway which are extremly new, i was blwon away when i left serbia and imediatelly the shiny motorway began instead of the ugly old road which was there.


Yes,there is new part of highway towards Serbian border,but it's around 30 km long,rest was already built.


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## Verso

Pictures of ALL Croatian motorways are in the local threads, I know it. This one as well. I remember signs for Banja Luka, Sarajevo, Belgrade and of course Slavonski Brod, Osijek and so on.


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## radi6404

Verso said:


> Pictures of ALL Croatian motorways are in the local threads, I know it. This one as well. I remember signs for Banja Luka, Sarajevo, Belgrade and of course Slavonski Brod, Osijek and so on.


but i am too lazy to pick them out there.


----------



## Verso

^ That's why I've already recommended some Croat to collect them and put them here in order.  Come on, lazy Croats!


----------



## x-type

i tried to do it. and i came to 6th page at Cro Motorways 1. sory people, but i'm staying lazy Croat instead ofdestroyed-nerves Croat


----------



## Verso

:lol: :no:


----------



## Verso

A1+A6 Zagreb - Karlovac - Bosiljevo (- Split/Rijeka)

A2 Zagreb - Krapina (- Maribor)

A3 (Ljubljana -) Bregana - Zagreb & Zagreb bypass (rather traffic signs)

A3 Zagreb - Serbia: series I, II, III, IV

A4 Zagreb - Varaždin (- Hungary)

A6 (Zagreb -) Bosiljevo - Rijeka: part I, II

A7+D8 (Split -) Sveti Kuzam - Rijeka

A7 Rijeka - Slovenia (from "A7:" on)

D28 (Bjelovar -) Vrbovec - Sveta Helena (A4) (- Zagreb)


----------



## Verso

Here, radi6404, after looking at all 6 threads and this one I've found some photos from the A3 and other highways; I chose the best ones. I didn't search for the A1, b/c it's everywhere.  And krzamak is the best one for it.  Enjoy! :cheers:


----------



## renco

Nice one Verso kay:


----------



## radi6404

thanks a lot Verso.


----------



## snupix

Thank you Verso for the effort! Great collection! :cheers:


----------



## Astralis

Verso said:


> A1+A6 Zagreb - Karlovac - Bosiljevo (- Split/Rijeka)
> 
> A2 Zagreb - Krapina (- Maribor)
> 
> A3 (Ljubljana -) Bregana - Zagreb & Zagreb bypass (rather traffic signs)
> 
> A3 Zagreb - Serbia: series I, II, III, IV
> 
> A4 Zagreb - Varaždin (- Hungary)
> 
> A6 (Zagreb -) Bosiljevo - Rijeka: part I, II
> 
> A7+D8 (Split -) Sveti Kuzam - Rijeka
> 
> A7 Rijeka - Slovenia (from "A7:" on)
> 
> D28 (Bjelovar -) Vrbovec - Sveta Helena (A4) (- Zagreb)


 Thanx man kay:
:cheers:


----------



## Verso

:cheers1:


----------



## rimorski

:banana: Magnificent!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Hey i heard the A1 is extended again :cheers:


----------



## Verso

^^ Exactly! For 37 km towards Dubrovnik. :banana: Dubrovnik, Dubrovnik, here I come!


----------



## x-type

that's right. you can quite often find similar abbrevitations at croatian direction tables. althought - there is absolutely enough space to write full name :lol:

i know that you can see Brod n/K (na Kupi), or often in newspapers Novigrad n/m (na moru [at the seaside]), i'm 99% sure that there is some place which has "na Sutli" in its name


----------



## edolen1

Interesting, it's not used in Slovenian.. We tend to just abbreviate the last name (like Dol pri Ljub., instead of Dol pri Ljubljani), but as far as I know it is discouraged to be used on signs..

Thanks!


----------



## Verso

edolen1 said:


> Interesting, it's not used in Slovenian.


We're awfully backwards when it comes to abbreviations.


----------



## housemaster

Short simple queston. 
How is the A1 construction towards Ploce going and when is this part going to be completed? 
And of course - are there any pics from the construction site?
This would be awesome.
Greetz from Poland


----------



## x-type

housemaster said:


> Short simple queston.
> How is the A1 construction towards Ploce going and when is this part going to be completed?
> And of course - are there any pics from the construction site?


motorway to Ploče should be completed in 2008.
you have some photos here in post #448.


----------



## MisiekSnk

I think Croatian motorways are the best in the world. Congratulations! 
In Poland it is impossible yet:bash: :bash: :bash:


----------



## radi6404

MisiekSnk said:


> I think Croatian motorways are the best in the world. Congratulations!
> In Poland it is impossible yet:bash: :bash: :bash:


come on man


----------



## KHS

^^ What? You are pissed he didn′t say that for Bulgarian motorways with _shiny crashbarriers and the big yellow beautiful sign_? You are really starting to go on my nervs. :bash: And I believe I′m not the only one who thinks that way.


----------



## radi6404

KHS said:


> ^^ What? You are pissed he didn′t say that for Bulgarian motorways with _shiny crashbarriers and the big yellow beautiful sign_? You are really starting to go on my nervs. :bash: And I believe I′m not the only one who thinks that way.


No man, i am not pissed off but Croatia surely hasn´t the best motorways in the world, you are on my nerves since a long time now. Croatian motorways look good but the best, surely not. They don´t look so quality also there´s always a lot of dust on the motorways. And with the oversaturated pictures you just give me an impression that the pics you guys show are rather amatorious and give me a feeling of, oh just look how "cool" our Croatian motorways are.


----------



## KHS

radi6404 said:


> Croatia surely hasn´t the best motorways in the world.


I never said that _man_. That were MisiekSnk´s words and you should respect his opinion.



radi6404 said:


> They don´t look so quality also there´s always a lot of dust on the motorways.


They look surely better then your Struma motorway. How do you explain sand on the road and no middlemarking line?



radi6404 said:


> And with the oversaturated pictures you just give me an impression that the pics you guys show are rather amatorious and give me a feeling of, oh just look how "cool" our Croatian motorways are.


At least we have pictures to show. You gave us 4 or 5 crapy photos and we are suppose to fall on our butt.

Look, I don´t want to argue with you. That wasn´t my intention. :cheers:


----------



## radi6404

KHS, you are ridiculous, the middmarkings are allready there! They weren´t as they didn´t have enough time to finish it before it was time to opne the motorway, now there are markings. The crashbarriers are better, also the signs, you will see


----------



## KHS

^^ I can´t understand how could they open that motorway if it still wasn´t finished. They first had to get usage authorization (i don´t know right english expression) before allowing the traffic on the road. It is just to dangerous. Specially at night.


----------



## radi6404

KHS said:


> ^^ I can´t understand how could they open that motorway if it still wasn´t finished. They first had to get usage authorization (i don´t know right english expression) before allowing the traffic on the road. It is just to dangerous. Specially at night.


Are you kidding or what, people there drive with 200+ all the time, motorists drive even faster and nothing happens, at night it isn´t dangerous either, it would be better with the markings, but the middlebarriers are shiny and reflect and they also have these red things that reflect evehn more like many crashbarriers in europe, in Croatia they have the red stuff also? And i told you, at night everything is shining and it is bright enough, ofcourse i want them to be installed aswell but they already are installed.


----------



## keber

radi6404 said:


> And i told you, at night everything is shining and it is bright enough, ofcourse i want them to be installed aswell but they already are installed.


Look, I understand, you like shining barriers, but this sentence is way too much.:bash:

Shiny crashbarriers DO NOT shine in the night. Period.


----------



## radi6404

Keber, that´s not true, if you spot the barrier with the light it reflects the light ofcourse, i would like to call you something for hwat you are talking man. as if i hadn´t seen it myself LOL.


----------



## keber

Look, do not lie, barriers do not shine at night. You do see barrier at night, but it's nothing compared to white marking (or yellow) lines, painted on pavement. Safety features of visibility are lane markings, not shining barriers. When you'll start to drive a car, then you'll learn that, but until then do not write stupidities.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, the markings (thermoplast or something) are reflecting. Just like signs.


----------



## Nephasto

Also there usually are reflectors in the crash barriers, but obviously not the barriers themselves.


----------



## x-type

Nephasto said:


> Also there usually are reflectors in the crash barriers, but obviously not the barriers themselves.


nonono, this what is at bulgarian Struma motorway -> this is usual, and all other are exceptions


----------



## Nephasto

^^Yes, I know... I think that in the Struma motorway you can even drive asleep, because it's just impossible to have any accident in it, being that it's soooo perfect.


----------



## wyqtor

I also have to disagree with Radi and say that Croatian motorways are the best in South-Eastern Europe, and definitely among the best in the whole of Europe along with French, Italian, Slovenian and Hungarian ones!


----------



## radi6404

wyqtor said:


> I also have to disagree with Radi and say that Croatian motorways are the best in South-Eastern Europe, and definitely among the best in the whole of Europe along with French, Italian, Slovenian and Hungarian ones!


Okay man, you will see, you will definetly see who has the BEST motorways, i am soon going to Bulgaria, i will take proper pics of the already finished motorwaysections like the struma motorway with markings and also signalization. I don´t knwo whether they are among the best but yu´ll see. You won´t put Bulgarian motorwyys down anymroe. Don´t take this too serious


----------



## housemaster

x-type said:


> motorway to Ploče should be completed in 2008.
> you have some photos here in post #448.


Well, thanks, as far I can see now the construction is not very advanced but I will surely come all the way from Poland next year to check it all way down to Ploce. Croatian Motorways rule!!!!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

radi6404 said:


> Okay man, you will see, you will definetly see who has the BEST motorways, i am soon going to Bulgaria, i will take proper pics of the already finished motorwaysections like the struma motorway with markings and also signalization.


Take some pics of the signs too 

I am always interested in road signage.


----------



## radi6404

Nephasto said:


> ^^Certainly! In the Struma motorway the animal passes are lighted with UV lights at night so that animals can get tanned!


Now i know what you ean with animal crosses, now man, the motorway has bridges, the animals can pass just under the motorway and not fall on the motorway so that it is saver for the animals ofcourse. The bridges are very well done and remind me of travelling on some monorail in doom3 or in other sciense fiction games or movies.


----------



## Nephasto

^^Yes.... that, or than it's just like any other motorway which has viaducts and bridges.
But animal passes are made especially for the animals, and only some motorways have it.... unlike having bridges and viaducts which all have.


----------



## KHS

radi6404 said:


> Now i know what you ean with animal crosses, now man, the motorway has bridges, the animals can pass just under the motorway and not fall on the motorway so that it is saver for the animals ofcourse. The bridges are very well done and remind me of travelling on some monorail in *doom3 or in other sciense fiction games or movies.*


Your medicament is starting to wear off. :badnews: :baeh3: :crazy2:


----------



## KHS

wyqtor said:


> I also have to disagree with Radi and say that Croatian motorways are the best in South-Eastern Europe, and definitely among the best in the whole of Europe along with French, Italian, Slovenian and Hungarian ones!


:yes:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Don't forget Spanish motorways! Man those are coooool!  It's also the longest system of Europe :cheers:


----------



## MisiekSnk

radi6404 said:


> come on man


Maybe Croatian motorways are not the best in the world, but the motorways are for sure 100x better than Bulgarian, man. You attack me, because I didn't write the words in topic about Your motorways...
Sorry for my English!


----------



## radi6404

MisiekSnk said:


> Maybe Croatian motorways are not the best in the world, but the motorways are for sure 100x better than Bulgarian, man. You attack me, because I didn't write the words in topic about Your motorways...
> Sorry for my English!


You are ridiculous

Just look at this fullsize pic, loo at the pavment, the crashbarriers, the excelent working quality and talk to me again then.

http://gat3way.fcdunav.com/pix/gallery/albums/southeast/IMG_0007.JPG


----------



## radi6404

I accept your opinion but this is just not true, what you are talking MisiekSnk


----------



## MisiekSnk

^^ It is my opinion, friend. I don't say that Bulgarian motorways are bad but comparision with Croatian is ridicolous, not me I think I'm objective. I'm not Croatian On the other hand Bulgaria start to build modern motorways, but Bulgarian roads I can compare with Polish for example because Croatia is highest class.


----------



## Nephasto

radi6404 said:


> You are ridiculous
> 
> Just look at this fullsize pic, loo at the pavment, the crashbarriers, the excelent working quality and talk to me again then.
> 
> http://gat3way.fcdunav.com/pix/gallery/albums/southeast/IMG_0007.JPG


Well, if you want an honest opinion mine would be:"There's nothing special in the motorway in that picture."
Well... actually there is something that I don't like: there's absolutelly no inner shoulder, so the center crashbarrier is very close to the left lane making in (if not unsafe, which I don't believe it is), uncomfortable for a driver driving in the left lane (feeling that the crashbarrier is too close).


----------



## radi6404

Nephasto said:


> Well, if you want an honest opinion mine would be:"There's nothing special in the motorway in that picture."
> Well... actually there is something that I don't like: there's absolutelly no inner shoulder, so the center crashbarrier is very close to the left lane making in (if not unsafe, which I don't believe it is), uncomfortable for a driver driving in the left lane (feeling that the crashbarrier is too close).


If that´s all, than i don´t know. If you think that on many motorways you can´t find any error or thing that is worked bad with such a huge and deteiled pic i am sorry.


----------



## KHS

You just don´t give up. Do you?


----------



## radi6404

KHS said:


> You just don´t give up. Do you?


I don´t have to give up for something taht is very good, but ok, i won´t hijack the thread anymore.


----------



## Nephasto

radi6404 said:


> If that´s all, than i don´t know. If you think that on many motorways you can´t find any error or thing that is worked bad with such a huge and deteiled pic i am sorry.



Certainly there are errors on other motorways.
I just gave you my thoughts on the photo you posted. As you're allways saying it's the best motorway in the gallaxy, I thought you would be interested in showing it and having people gave you their thoughts about it.
Didn't said that to piss you off or something.


----------



## Fugit

When will be the second tube in tunnels Mala Kapela and Sviety Rok?
I've just came back from Split and there were horrible traffic jam close to those tunnels.


----------



## KHS

^^ HAC is receiving applications for construtors as we speak. Then they have to choose the best bidder and construction is starting this fall.:cheers: Both tubes are already poked. They just have to eqip them. Tunnel Sveti Rok is 5.661 m and Mala Kapela 5760 long. They will be finished till the end of 2008. This will cost around 85 000 000 euro for both tunnels. Problem is that highway has reached traffic that they didn´t plan until 2012!



P.S. How was your holiday?


----------



## OettingerCroat

radi6404 said:


> awesome.


thx! :cheers2: kay:

click on it and rate it for me if you'd like :yes:


----------



## snupix

wyqtor said:


> ^^ Ok, let me think: ... the rusty one is the Maslenica bridge, right? And the red, maybe the Pag bridge?


No, as x-type said, both are Maslenica bridges

Here you can see them both:










This is the Pag bridge:


----------



## KHS

*Croatian roads 2007*






*Highway to Makarska*


----------



## KHS

*Split-Zadar-Split*


----------



## OettingerCroat

^^ :applause:


----------



## radi6404

I must say Croatian motorways are really good but when it comes to design the croatians don´t pay much attention the motorway looks nice. Admit it x-type! Bulgaria and greece do pay attention of the design of their new motorways, that´s why the new section greek motorway looks so good or in bulgaria the Struma ofcourse. I don´t know how the pavement on Croatian motorways is, it looks good but a bit rough, how is it?


----------



## snupix

radi6404 said:


> I must say Croatian motorways are really good but when it comes to design the croatians don´t pay much attention the motorway looks nice. Admit it x-type!


^^ :? What are the mushrooms you eat?


----------



## x-type

radi6404 said:


> I must say Croatian motorways are really good but when it comes to design the croatians don´t pay much attention the motorway looks nice. Admit it x-type!


khm, you called me. well, i don't know which part exactly you don't like, you should write it. i accept everyone's peronal opinion with cover. but, please, don't write signalization, tunnels or toll gates because people will laugh to you. seriously.


----------



## radi6404

^^ crashbariers.


----------



## RawLee

x-type said:


> khm, you called me. well, i don't know which part exactly you don't like, you should write it. i accept everyone's peronal opinion with cover. but, please, don't write signalization, tunnels or toll gates because people will laugh to you. seriously.





radi6404 said:


> ^^ crashbariers.


I think you missed this x-type:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## radi6404

And not only, also the Coatian motorways don´t look as clean as the Bulgarian ONE.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, only ONE. Compared to a dozen Croatian ones, with a much longer total length.


----------



## radi6404

don´t make me laugh man, we and they have same lengh of motorways, we have 500+ km of motorway opened and it will be mroe than 1000, with the only one i mean the struma as it is the best looking motorway in Bulgaria.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

radi6404 said:


> with the only one i mean the struma as it is the best looking motorway in Bulgaria.


No shit Sherlock.

Really? You've got to be kiddin'

:banana:


----------



## Rebasepoiss

Can anybody censore the word "Struma", please!


----------



## x-type

radi6404 said:


> don´t make me laugh man, we and they have same lengh of motorways, we have 500+ km of motorway opened and it will be mroe than 1000, with the only one i mean the struma as it is the best looking motorway in Bulgaria.


how can you have same lenght while you say that you have 500, and we have 1000 km?! btw, croatian area is right 50% of bulgarian size. so analogy would be if you had 2000 km.


----------



## RawLee

x-type said:


> how can you have same lenght while you say that you have 500, and we have 1000 km?! btw, croatian area is right 50% of bulgarian size. so analogy would be if you had 2000 km.


you have 1000kms too? then celebrate together!
:dance:


----------



## KHS

Rebasepoiss said:


> Can anybody censore the word "Struma", please!


Add crashbarier and shiny to that list.


----------



## x-type

RawLee said:


> you have 1000kms too? then celebrate together!
> :dance:


yeah, 950 km motorways and 200 km expressways. next year we're reaching 1000 km full profiled motorways.


----------



## radi6404

so you have way more motorways than Slovenia? Great.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Slovenia is very small, and mountainous, and has few inhabitants. Hence the lesser motorways.


----------



## x-type

i think that Slovenia has some more motorways per capita and per sq km then Croatia. but when we finish our network and they finish their, it will be equal.


----------



## KHS

"Domovinski" bridge, new SE enterance to city from Zagreb bypass


----------



## KHS

*¸New Croatian A5 motorway to Đakovo soon to be opened*

Thanx to P.C.Dolabella

Đakovo soon conected. 

23 km of new motorway close to finish. 































































Future pay toll Đakovo 










Planed to be open 31.X
Next stretch from Đakovo to Osijek (Čepin south) to be opend next year same time


----------



## KHS

*A1 Zagreb-Split*

Thanx to Stranger_77




























Roadside Service Facilitie "Krka":


----------



## KHS

*Mala Kapela tunnel - 5760 m*


----------



## x-type

brawo za Poljake!!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Croatian Coastal road.


----------



## x-type

i'm still under impression of your posts with danish bridges and this our looks like a toy after watching them :rofl:


----------



## KHS

*Commencement of works on second tubes of M.Kapela and Sv. Rok Tunnels*



The works on the second (left) tubes of Sveti Rok and Mala Kapela tunnels are to be performed by the contractors selected further to a completed open tendering. The contractor of works on Sveti Rok tunnel is the joint venture Hidroelektra niskogradnja d.d. and Konstruktor-inženjering d.d., and the contractor of works on Mala Kapela tunnel is the joint venture Viadukt d.d. and Strabag AG. 
The contracted works include civil engineering works (tunnel lining and pavement structure). The contracted works on Sveti Rok tunnel shall amount to HRK 149,944,657.80 (VAT excluded) and those on Mala Kapela tunnel to HRK 149,865,031.00 (VAT excluded). The completion of civil engineering works on both tunnels shall be in 18 months' time after which the finishing works shall take place (installation of safety system and traffic signs). The full completion of tunnels on the Zagreb to Split motorway (A1) shall precede the summer tourist season of 2009. 

The works on the left tubes are complex particularly considering that the right tubes are already in traffic and that the left tubes will still need to function as service tubes in emergency situations. 


Sveti Rok tunnel is a twin-tube tunnel on the Sveti Rok tunnel – Maslenica section. The left tube is 5,679 m long and the right one 5,670 m long. It was opened to traffic in June 2003 and it services the two-way traffic in one right (west) tunnel tube. It was built using the New Austrian Tunnelling Method (NATM) that proved to be very efficient in different geological conditions encountered during the tunnel route. The maximum speed limit is 80 km/h, and the minimum 50 km/h.


Mala Kapela tunnel is placed on the Bosiljevo - M.Kapela section and it has been in traffic as of June 2005. With its 5,761 m it is not only the longest tunnel on the Zagreb to Split motorway but also the longest tunnel in the country. Considering the geotechnical properties of the rocks in which it was excavated this tunnel has been classified in the medium difficulty category. 

The value of investment of to date completed works that has included the full completion and opening to traffic of the right tubes and boring of the left ones is: 

Sv. Rok tunnel – construction in the amount of HRK 725 million (both tubes, approach roads south-north, portals…)
- Supervision and design development – HRK 28 mil
- Tunnel facilities worth HRK 250 million (including the works outside the tunnel that are necessary for traffic operation - 3 transformer stations for power supply of the tunnel: Obrovac, Gračac, Sveti Rok-north, 8 tunnel transformer stations, water supply from Obrovac to Sveti Rok-south, 3 water tanks for tunnel supply, ventilation system, lighting, signwork, supply of the supporting Maintenance and Traffic Control Centre in the south…)

- total: HRK 1,003 million (ca. a billion kuna) Mala Kapela tunnel – civil engineering works worth HRK 322 million
- supervision and design development in the value of HRK 19 million 
- tunnel facilities HRK 174 milion worth
- total: HRK 515 million.

The idea to complete and open to traffic the second tunnel tubes that were excavated but not fully finished is based on safety reasons, increased traffic volumes and traffic congestions and bottlenecks. Following the EU guidelines the preconditions for completion of a second tube include daily traffic volume exceeding 10,000 vehicles per traffic lane, summer traffic significantly exceeding the average annual daily traffic and a 15% share of heavy vehicles above 3.5 t. As early as 2006 the generated annual daily traffic was above 10,000 vehicles and in summer time it was 28,000 vehicles (average summer daily traffic). In 2007 the average summer daily traffic was 30,000 vehicles and the forecasted figures for 2009 are 39,000 vehicles. According to the same forecasts the average annual daily traffic in 2009 might exceed 16,000 vehicles.


*Link...*www.hac.hr


----------



## KHS

Works on second tube of tunnel Mala Kapela


----------



## KHS

Thanx to bubach_hlubach

*1. part (Zagreb-Varazdin)*









































































































































Thanx to bubach_hlubach


----------



## KHS

Thanx to bubach_hlubach


*2. part (Zagreb-Varazdin)*









































































































































Thanx to bubach_hlubach


----------



## KHS

Thanx to bubach_hlubach


*3. part (Zagreb-Varazdin)*









































































































































Thanx to bubach_hlubach


----------



## Lankosher

Some pics of Croatian roads I took about a month ago

Na pierwszy ogień mały bonus - Austria - tuż przed granicą ze Słowenią

















i już Chorwacja, tuż za granicą Słoweńską

































Tu już S-ka w pół-profilu (dość wąska a u nas się narzeka na nasze w pół-profilu  )

























Tak wygląda obejście Rijeki z daleka

































...taki krótki tunelik  

















kolejny do kolekcji

















...zbliżamy się do Splitu.....

























..obecnie autostrada dochodzi do Makarskiej Riviery dalej jedziemy sławetną już jadarenską magistralą - tuż przed bośniacką enklawą Neum w strone Dubrovnika..

















..tranzytowa granica do Dubrownika - przed nami 16 km Bośni i Hercegoviny

























..tu już spowrotem w Chorwacji...

















More of Croatian and other Balkan roads on Polish sub-forum: 
[Bałkany] Fotorelacje 
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=179735


----------



## radi6404

I wanted ask how the pavment on Croatian roads is? Is it smooth to drive on Croatian motorways or not, the asphalt looks good but not very smooth


----------



## KIWIKAAS

^^
yawn


----------



## Verso

Very nice photos all of you! Such a beautiful country. 


Radi, is there any other thing you can ask?!


----------



## radi6404

Verso said:


> Very nice photos all of you! Such a beautiful country.
> 
> 
> Radi, is there any other thing you can ask?!


why, its a serious question because the Croatian roads look the same as Serbian roads which aren´t that smooth.


----------



## Verso

You always have the same questions over and over again! I'm opening you a special thread where you'll be able to ask all kinds of (same) questions, ok? Of course I won't be checking it.


----------



## KHS

Chriszwolle said:


> Great quality pics. However, my 20 Mbit connection had a hard time downloading them all..


You are right. To many pics for just one page. I edited some of my posts from the last page. Maybe it helps a bit.



Krk Bridge is a 1430 m long reinforced concrete arch bridge connecting the Croatian island of Krk to the mainland and carrying over a million vehicles per year. The longer of the bridge's two arches is the second longest concrete arch in the world and among the longest arches of any construction. The bridge was completed and opened in 1980.


----------



## KHS

I hope its better now...


----------



## KHS

Construction of 2.3 km long bridge Kopno-Peljesac started yesterday.

Total cost: €260 million
Length: 2380m
Navigational clearance: 55m
Width: 21,5m
Main span: 568m 

Opening Date: June 2011

*Video links:* 
http://dnevnik.hr/naslovnica/vijesti/hrvatska/20071023_28738_78207.php

http://dnevnik.hr/naslovnica/vijesti/hrvatska/20071023_28738_78062.php


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## Verso

^^ This bridge is almost Bosnian.  (ok, Herzegovinian ) Just kidding, it will be good to have sth like that in this region, now all we have to wait is 4 years.  Congratulations on the masterpiece bridge!


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## wyqtor

I never really thought construction would begin so soon! I was expecting for construction to start in 5-10 years from now. Then again, I'm accustomed to the Romanian way of doing things, not the Croatian one  Your government(s) are really serious about building modern infrastructure for your country.


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## SmarterChild

Is that bridge neccesary due to large amounts of traffic to that peninsula? or is it bc the E65 crosses borders (may be a fproblem when Croatia enters the EU) ?


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## x-type

there is not that much traffic and the bridge is not refundable. but it's the only way to revitalize that part of country and we are all allready sick of passing that stupid border while traveling to Dubrovnik. and especially people from that region - they often travel to Split (which is regional centre). and we cannot expect to enter Schengen zone so soon, and especially we cannot expect BIH to do that


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## wyqtor

Though I still don't get it: why don't they change the route of the future section of A1 Split - Dubrovnik, so that it crosses the bridge?


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## mojaBL

^^ it would be too expensive and ecologically not acceptable


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## x-type

because BIH would probably declare a war on us in that case


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## mojaBL

x-type said:


> because BIH would probably declare a war on us in that case


that as well but not whole BiH only 1/3


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## x-type

hehe, i was just kidding  although, my kidding is, unfortunately, not far from truth


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## Nephasto

The bridge will be 2x1? Or a motorway?


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## x-type

2x1 or 2x2, we still don't know. i heard some stories about 2x1 in the beginning, and later if traffic becomes more intense, there is enough space to make it 2x2. why not from the beginning - i don't know. i guess it depends about rest of that road - we still don't know profile of it. if it is gonna be 2x1, there is no reason for bridge to be wider


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## Nephasto

^^But the motorway from Split to Dubrovnik will go through Bosnian territory then? Not going to use that bridge to bypass Bosnia, right?

When is that part (Split-dubrovnik) of the A1 going to be built? And what are they going to do regarding the Bosnian part of it?


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## x-type

there are yet not detailed plans about A1 after Ploce, it will be announced when croatian plan of building motorways in period 2009-2012 comes out (we should gte it in few weeks).
motorway will go threw Neum (BIH), but expressway will go around Neum accross the bridge, so i guess it will hold majority of transit traffic to avoid that unneccessary border


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## Verso

x-type said:


> motorway will go threw Neum (BIH), but expressway will go around Neum accross the bridge


I wouldn't be saying that so soon.


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ You can also build a motorway through Bosnia without exists in that short Bosnian strip. We used to have the Dutch N274 through German territory. Exiting was impossible in the pre-schengen era. 

That way, you'll avoid high costs because of a reroute around the strip, and the Bosnian can use your ports for trade as a deal. 

Ofcourse, Bosnian might want to enter the A1 too, but you can let them cross a normal border before entering the A1. It looks to me, the major flows (Croatian traffic) can go uninterrupted, and the smaller flows (Bosnia to A1) has to cross a border checkpoint.


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## Verso

Or they can also make an exit in B&H and put border crossing on it. But Croats don't want that.


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## Nephasto

^^Yes, putting the border crossin just on the exit (just like a toll barrier, just for those exiting and entering the motorway) would be a good idea.


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## x-type

there was a word about it, but they went so far that they talked only about covered motorway or walls beside. btw, BIH will sooner accept bridge then motorway without exits at its teritory.


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## Nephasto

^^Well, they could built it between walls, but as long as it would have an exit to Bosnia (with a border control) it would be ok I guess.


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## x-type

i think that they gave up because we should give all the financies for that section at foreign teritory. and the main pont is that we still don't know when A1 is going to be extended south of Ploce. there is not reason for build that section before A1 reach the border, and bridge will probably be finnished sooner. 
and it's not only about bypassing BIH, it's also about connection penninsula Peljesac with mainland. people allways took ferry while traveling to Peljesac because it touches mainland at very south, so it's not reachable easily.


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## mojaBL

there has been also talk that motorway after Ploče will go trough Herzegovina coz the terrain is easier, it would be cheaper and because of the ecological reasons. But it is more like Sci-Fi than reality.


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## ChrisZwolle

I think, within the next 20 years, there will be a full motorway connection from Trieste to Igoumenitsa. 

Think of the rising tourism in Croatia and Montenegro, and the tourism potential of Albania.


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## 7t

The Adriatic-Ionian Highway once complete will become the most important highway link in SouthEastern Europe


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## x-type

everyone says that, but somehow i doubt it will conquer an importance of coridor X. and, of course, Struma


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## Verso

It will be important and especially tourist, but there's no way it can rival the X. Corridor, which runs through the middle of the Balkans.


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## Nephasto

^^X corridor? Could you translate please? :colgate:

Is it the corridor that goes through Zagreb, Belgrade and then to Thessaloniki?


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## Verso

Salzburg - Ljubljana - Zagreb - Belgrade - Niš - Skopje - Thessaloniki 

I think even more important is Istanbul - Sofia - Niš ...


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## iLiR




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## x-type

Verso said:


> Salzburg - Ljubljana - Zagreb - Belgrade - Niš - Skopje - Thessaloniki
> 
> I think even more important is Istanbul - Sofia - Niš ...


of course it is. i thought that coridor X goes to Istanbul


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## Verso

^ That's Xc (and IV).


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## RawLee

How do you dare to bypass Hungary?:lol:We are the single most important transit hub on the continent!:lol:


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## wyqtor

Wow! I noticed only now! Nowadays, all roads lead to... Budapest! :lol:


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## mojaBL

is it not austria?


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## wyqtor

It doesn't appear on the above map, but yeah, Austria too! 

No wonder the idea of a federal, united Europe was initially thought of in Austria-Hungary!


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## RawLee

Actually,Lajos Kossuth(I believe his idea was this) proposed a Danube Federation,incorporating all nations along the Danube, after foreseeing the faith of the Monarchy.


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## KHS




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## Ballota

Some interchanges near Rijeka:



























:cheers:


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## Rijeka

*New A5*

Hi guys,

I'm a new member here... from Rijeka, obviously. Does anyone have picture of a new A5 between Sredanci and Dakovo? This part is 23km long and was opet yesterday.


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## mojaBL

welcome
here u have Alpe-Adria sub forum (BiH, HR, SLO) and all informations about those 3 countries, as well threads about croatian motorways and pictures from A5. 
just follow link
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=743


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## KHS

Rijeka said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm a new member here... from Rijeka, obviously. Does anyone have picture of a new A5 between Sredanci and Dakovo? This part is 23km long and was opet yesterday.


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## Verso

Looking good!


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## x-type

because of Petrol?


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## Verso

^ Yeah right! :lol: Petrol sucks, Marché's the way to go!


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## KHS

*Some construction pictures*

Thanx to ppero2

Link... [Croatia] - Motorways VIII


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## hercegovac_nin0

Croatian highways are the best in Europe:cheers:


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## KHS

^^I wouldn't say they are the best. But they are among better highways in Europe. I'm just waiting for Radi's confirmation...


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## dudu24

Radi is recovering from temporary blindness caused by shiny crash barriers on Struma, give him some time.


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## Don CROleone

http://photoforum.istria.info/data/media/31/ABr09ret.jp







g


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## Don CROleone




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## Ballota

Rijeka bypass:






















































These "sky" interchanges are realy somethin' :master:


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## hercegovac_nin0

So nice! I love it.


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## ChrisZwolle

We've seen those last pics earlier...


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## Qwert

Awesome photos and highways. Congratulations to Croatia.


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## radi6404

Mate_Balota said:


> Rijeka bypass:
> 
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no this is indeet quite beautiful


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## Ballota

Chriszwolle said:


> We've seen those last pics earlier...


Sorry. I didn't know that. 

----------

Thanx guys! It's a real joy to ride 'em...


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## KHS

*Tudman bridge, Dubrovnik*










*Krk bridge*


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## Czas na Żywiec

Croatian motorways are beautiful. I'm jealous, I wish Poland had such a great motorway network.

But for you guys it's much easier to the connect the country. Have one motorway going west to east and the other from northwest to southeast. 

Great job guys. :cheers:


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## mojaBL

Tudjman bridge? you mean dubrovnik bridge


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## mojaBL

Czas na Żywiec;16535139 said:


> Croatian motorways are beautiful. I'm jealous, I wish Poland had such a great motorway network.
> 
> But for you guys it's much easier to the connect the country. Have one motorway going west to east and the other from northwest to southeast.
> 
> Great job guys. :cheers:


and mountains and 4 million people. 
I think it is easier to connect Poland coz u haven´t got any hills, any mountains, everything is so flat and yes u almost have 40 million ppl and right to use EU fundings.


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## x-type

mojaBL said:


> Tudjman bridge? you mean dubrovnik bridge


because of some dissagreements, the bridge has 2 official names


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## Don CROleone

mojaBL said:


> Tudjman bridge? you mean dubrovnik bridge


The official name: *Most dr. Franje Tudjamana*


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## Don CROleone

*The new Maslenica bridge (A1)*


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## snupix

krOativan said:


> The official name: *Most dr. Franje Tudjamana*


Even worse, Franj*a* Tuđmana. :bash: But "Most Dubrovnik" is also official.


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## Don CROleone

^^
Ok. Thanks... The local grammar in Dubrovnik.:lol:


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## Czas na Żywiec

mojaBL said:


> and mountains and 4 million people.
> I think it is easiest to connect Poland coz u haven´t got any hills, any mountains, everything is so flat and yes u almost have 40 million ppl and right to use EU fundings.


Yea but in Poland it takes decades for any road project to get started. Of course an exageration, but roads seem to be one thing our government is incapable of getting done in a timely manner. hno:


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## Ballota

^^ Damn! :nuts:


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## mojaBL

Kad sam se vozio preko mosta s jedne strane je bio natpis Franja Tudjmana, a s druge most dubrovnik, ali sam mislio da je ostavljeno samo ime dubrovnik


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## Ballota

PC Dolabella has new pics of the A5 motorway toward Osijek!

Note the shiny crash-barriers and water resistent asphalt!  :








































































:cheers:


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## SmarterChild

Very shiny asphalt!


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## Don CROleone

*Don't forget*

Vukovar, 18.11.1991. - 18.11.2007


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## dudu24

This highway is so bad! Just compare exit with magnificent almighty Struma!









Pure perfection! 

And now this new Croat stuff.. just not good enough.


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## Ballota

Yes....this interchange indeed is terrible  :









:cheers:


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## krzamak

*PART I*
*New Croatian A5 Motorway, section Sredanci - Đakovo *

Pics from Dolabella


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## krzamak

*PART II*
*New Croatian A5 Motorway, section Sredanci - Đakovo *

Pics from Dolabella


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## krzamak

*PART III*
*New Croatian A5 Motorway, section Sredanci - Đakovo *

Pics from Dolabella


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## krzamak

*PART IV*
*New Croatian A5 Motorway, section Sredanci - Đakovo *

Pics from Dolabella


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## krzamak

*PART V*
*New Croatian A5 Motorway, section Sredanci - Đakovo *

Pics from Dolabella




































































































Đakovo


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## Kese

Almost forgot to add: I like the rest area a lot:banana:.


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## mojaBL

^^it is easy to enter Bosnia. no need to worry


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## x-type

Kese said:


> It was good to see this first part of A5. I hope it won't be long after 2010 that the connection with M6 in Hungary gets completed. As far as I know, there is no deadline set yet for the border crossing section. Where exactly is A5 supposed to finish (temporarily)? I mean on which side of Dráva? -- In Hungary M6 will be at Bóly in 2010 spring, and also as M60 in Pécs. Lets hope the gap will not take so long to fill in as between M7 and A?something. ........... Another thing. What is the other end of A5 like? I mean how smooth is the transition to Bosnia from there? I am planning to hop down there soon and check it out, but I would appreciate some updating before.


A5 currently ends at knot with A3 (Sredanci) in direction south. connection to BIH border will be completed probably at the same time as part to H border. future border crossing HR/BIH will be in Svilaj, but there is not bridge yet built. however, you can pass the river Sava with _skela_ (i don't know english word, but you should know it - primitive wooden ferry that slides down the wire, they exist at Drava, too). actually, you cannot because the nearest exit from motorway is Velika Kopanica (so after knot Sredanci you must take about 10 km at A3 to east to exit the motorway), and from there you go to border crossing Šamac, where you cross Sava by bridge.

about 2008's A5's reaching Osijek - i think it will end at south coast of Drava, but you have new western Osijek's bypass built this year with new bridge over Drava (that's why i think that it will end at southern coast)


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## Kese

Thank you for the info.


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## bgplayer19

WOW!Now thats amazing!I've only travelled on the A1 from the Serbian border to the Slovenian one and the highway was spectacular!By the way the oil wells are on the A1 right guys?


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## mojaBL

that is A3, A1 is Zagreb-Split


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## x-type

bgplayer19 said:


> WOW!Now thats amazing!I've only travelled on the A1 from the Serbian border to the Slovenian one and the highway was spectacular!By the way the oil wells are on the A1 right guys?


BL has allready told you - it's A3. you can see oil wells around Ivanić Grad near that motorway


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## bgplayer19

x-type said:


> BL has allready told you - it's A3. you can see oil wells around Ivanić Grad near that motorway


yes i remember!It was Ivanic Grad!Thanks for the info


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## Bori427

Nice motorways,very well maintained.Lots of tunnels I see!


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## radi6404

i wanted add that I remember how the motorway from the Sebian border is, the very new section, it is high quality, it is very smooth and even.


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## mojaBL

it is like that from Serbian till Slovenian border.


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## KHS

*South entrence to Sveti Rok tunnel*








photo:Shutterspeed









photo:Ismena Meić


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## Ballota

That viaduct is 2.5km long! :nuts:

I love driving across it! :banana:


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## krzamak

*A1 Motorway, section Ravča - Karlovac*


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## Mateusz

How old is that section of A1 ?


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## x-type

MateoW said:


> How old is that section of A1 ?


first 4 pics (i'm not counting those invisible  ) are from this year, other are from previous years (2002.-2005.)

edit: invisible pics have appeared. so, all up to second tunnel is brand new


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## OettingerCroat

great pics :cheers2:


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## Ballota

Water resistent asphalt  :









:nuts:


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## payo

but not so shiny crashbarriers..hno:


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## RawLee

Any news from the Mura bridge?


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## x-type

RawLee said:


> Any news from the Mura bridge?


no, and from you?


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## RawLee

Then I wouldnt have asked you guys


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## Ballota

A motorway/expressway network in and around Split:









:cheers:


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## KHS




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## Qwert

Breathtaking photos.


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## ChrisZwolle

Wow that is sooooo cool 

One of the best night pics of a motorway i've seen so far. (and i've seen a lot, believe me  )


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## Ballota

One of the viaducts on the A1:









:cheers:


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## x-type

hey, it's my photo! i recognize photos from my cell phone!!

here you can find the rest of the photos from that trip. they are good because i was at the front seat at double-deck bus (at the upper deck), but i have never put them here (except the link) because there are too many of them in the gallery


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## Ballota

Sorry...I forgot it was yours...


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## OettingerCroat

KHS said:


>


truly exquisite pics! great nighttime pics!


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## mic of Orion

awesome stuff guys, top notch reporting Snupix, Krz, Xtype, KHS, Ballota and rest of the gang, some nice pics  thanx a lot


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## OettingerCroat

^^ :cheers2:


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## KHS

Ballota said:


> Evo jedna moja fotka:
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> :nuts:


:cheers:


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## KHS

New rest area ZIR on A1














































http://www.hac.hr/?task=inf


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## Mateusz

Looks very nice


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## RawLee

Oh yeah,almost forgot...a pic from the Mura bridge,provided by Qtya.


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## OettingerCroat

KHS said:


> New rest area ZIR on A1
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this rest stop is AMAZING


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## Mateusz

Looks like german rasthof


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## KHS




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## KHS

*Tunnel Brinje - The safest Europen tunnel in 2007.*

*The latest results of the European Tunnel Assessment programme (EuroTAP) place a Croatian tunnel, the "Brinje" at the top of the list, as the best tunnel in Europe in 2007.
*

EuroTAP 2007 inspected 51 major road tunnels important for transEuropean road traffic located in 13 countries across Europe and concluded that none could beat this Croatian tunnel despite the fact the since 2004 tunnels in the European Union must comply with a Directive prescribing minimum safety standards for road tunnels . The Brinje, a 1.57km tunnel opened in 2004, located on the A1 between Zagreb and Split displayed a winning features in all safety categories: low risk traffic flows using two tubes, 24 hour monitoring from a tunnel control centre manned by trained staff; immediate notification of traffic disruptions, use of lay-bys or emergency facilities; additional escape and rescue routes well marked by evacuation lighting and good indications of the escape direction and the distance to the nearest exit. *Over the life of EuroTAP, Croatian tunnels have received surprisingly good ratings.* Despite the high standards already achieved, Croatia's operators want to optimise their tunnels further.


http://www.eurotestmobility.net/news.php?item=25&sw=europe

I think that Brinje was safest tunnel in 2006. also. :banana:


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## pmaciej7

I drove JM between Split and Dubrownik. Beautiful road, but you must be still very concentrated on driving. 
And forget overtaking. Driving a distance of ~550 km (ST-DU, DU-Ston, Ston-DU and DU-ST), i overtook only 15 cars.


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## P.C.Dolabella

It's because there isn't (or wasn't) alternative motorway from Split all over to Dubrovnik yet, just to Makarska. But north of Split it's mostly different now and some parts are really relaxing.


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## Verso

I drove on it once, I needed 10 hours from Split to Ljubljana, but I also visited Šibenik and Zadar. It's very beautiful and relaxing until you get someone slow in front of yourself, hehe.


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## keber

10 hours?
Bah ...
13 h for me, without visiting anything beside road.


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## Jeroen669

Guys, remember: 15 minutes of rest after 2 hours of driving.


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## keber

Yeah I know. Driving on Adriatic coast (under Velebit range) with strong "bura" wind and congested traffic caused some earnings for roadside "konoba's".:lol:


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## x-type

Jeroen669 said:


> Guys, remember: 15 minutes of rest after 2 hours of driving.


what are you, viamichelin router?


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## ChrisZwolle

Jeroen669 said:


> Guys, remember: 15 minutes of rest after 2 hours of driving.


Hehe i never do that.

I take some rest in 600km+ drives, but i drove 580km saturday, with only 2 times 5 minutes to pee. Though i don't think that one hour of traffic jam counts as rest.


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## Verso

I usually take a rest every 2-3 hours; if I'm alone, just for 5 minutes though. I don't know why, but every time I go somewhere alone for a bit longer trip (200 km or more), I immediately have to go pee, even if I haven't drunk anything since evening, I mean WTF?!  Maybe you remember from my road trips across Slovenia, I always had to go pee on the first rest area!


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## KHS

MountMan said:


> *Prvo čestitke tati pperi.*
> Ovo je izbor fotki s A1, snimljen ovih dana, za njega.


:cheers:


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## eirik

Hi,
you said the Sestanovac-Ploce section of A1 motorway is to be completed before the end of 2008. Is there any chance it will be ready on August or September '08? The most recent section of this highway was opened at the begining of July AFAIK.


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## x-type

eirik said:


> Hi,
> you said the Sestanovac-Ploce section of A1 motorway is to be completed before the end of 2008. Is there any chance it will be ready on August or September '08? The most recent section of this highway was opened at the begining of July AFAIK.


no, only Šestanovac - Ravča will be completed in 2008 (probably in summmer), and rest to Ploče is delayed for 2010


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## KHS

Imota said:


> A1 Šestanovac - Zagvozd
> 
> Od 8,8. km do Zagvozda (do 11,5. km) opet asfalt.
> 
> 
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> 
> Prijelaz za životinje kod zaseoka Svaguše prije Zagvozda.
> 
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> 
> Približavamo se Zagvozdu. Nadvožnjak u pozadini je dio čvora Zagvozd.


:cheers:


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## Treasure

wow the coast is not that far aswell


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## KHS

*A1 continues south*

Thanx to Imota



































[/QUOTE]








[/QUOTE]


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## KHS

*A1 continues south*

Thanx to Imota


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## KHS

*A1 continues south*

Thanx to Imota


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## KHS

*A1 continues south*

Thanx to Imota


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## KHS

*A1 continues south*

Thanx to Imota


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## KHS

*A1 continues south*

Thanx to Imota


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## KHS

*A1 continues south*

Thanx to Imota















































Thanx to Imota

:cheers:


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## Turnovec

^^ Very nice updates! Thank Imota from me kay: 

Looks like Split- Ploce is going really fine ... I have passed on the old road along that new motorway 2 years ago.


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## dnik

*Electrical signs*



bgplayer19 said:


> Hey guys,can you tell me how many years ago did the first electrical signs on ou motorways were put?


If you are interested in electronic signs, in Croatia they were mostly developed and installed by Croatian company called Telegra, check their web page, there is lot of information about the signs, and other stuff.


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## smokiboy

Was the motorway from Zagreb to Belgrad ever completed?


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## ChrisZwolle

If i recall correctly, i remember that motorway is fully in operation.


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## RKC

yeah its been for ages


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## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, but wasn't there a section missing? Near the border, Lipovac or something?


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## RKC

thats how it shows on google earth, but even old maps show a motorway on the whole way. Plus friends from that area have been talking about using this road mainly, as its a highway all through.


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## RKC

of course for someone not interested in motorways a couple of miles missing wouldn't make a difference  so you might be right....
never driven that particular road


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## smokiboy

Maybe someone from the area, or someone how has recently traveled that stretch of motorway could let us know the status.


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## keber

Zagreb - Belgrade motorway is fully opened.:cheers:


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## x-type

it is fully opened. not for ages because last section (30 km) was opened, khm, in 2005 i think. for the record, motorway completely follows the route of old road which was 2 way road without intersections in same level.


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## smokiboy

I don't remember hearing that it was opened as a fully operating motorway ... but I guess it was. Any links to newspaper articles etc. I figured there would have been some sort of sarcastic report saying that after the demise of Yugoslavia the road of brotherhood and unity was finally completed ...


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## x-type

smokiboy said:


> I don't remember hearing that it was opened as a fully operating motorway ... but I guess it was. Any links to newspaper articles etc. I figured there would have been some sort of sarcastic report saying that after the demise of Yugoslavia the road of brotherhood and unity was finally completed ...


http://www.vlada.hr/hr/naslovnica/i...nader_pustio_u_promet_dionicu_zupanja_lipovac
http://www.hac.hr/index.php?task=inf&page=25

Brotherhood and Unity is not completed yet. in Serbia part south of Leskovac to MK border, few parts in Macedonia (Negotino - Gevgelija and few km near border with Serbia) and, of course, Slovenia (one part north from Kranj, one part near Ljubljana and one or two parts between Ljubljana and border with HR)


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## smokiboy

x-type, thank you for the info and quick reply.


----------



## smokiboy

The network of motorways in Croatia is quite extensive, but the motorway from Zagreb to Sisak, does not seem to make sense to me. Would not a motorway linking Karlovac and Krupina (to by-pass Zagreb) make more economic sense? However if the motorway is later connected to Banja Luka and Sarajevo it would be a good link to Central Bosnia, and perhaps even Montenegro and Albania ... what do you think?


----------



## x-type

motorway to Sisak is being built because Sisak is industrial city with large amount of freight traffic. that's why is A11 being built in that way. for me well alternative would be to connect SIsak to A3 (in Popovača)


----------



## Alle

Nik the Greek said:


> Nice Job Croatia.
> Yes, Croatia have nice Motorways,i drive on it last Year A-7,A-6,A-1,A-3.
> I like too the many Rest-Areas on the Motorways.
> Many East-Europian Countries can learn from Croatia to build good Motorways.


I second that, beautiful highways.

On the roads at the coast, they look nice but they are usually packed in the summer with tourists, arent they? 

Looking forward to seeing the planned network completed.


----------



## P.C.Dolabella

*Plan for 2008.*

In 2008. Croatia is planning to open 116 km of new motorways

1. - (A6) - Zagreb-Rijeka motorway, last 36,7 km of half-profile motorway into full profile (and entire A6 motorway) should be completed till the and of the year. 









2. - (A1) - Zagreb-Split-Dubrovnik, new 40,27 km of motorway to the south (Šestanovac - Ravča) + 6 km near Ploče should be opened till the and of the year.









3. - (A5) - Đakovo-Osijek, 32,5 km of new motorway as the last section of the complete connection (A3 and A5) between Zagreb and Osijek (4th Croatian city). 









and plus
4. - (A4) - 1,4 km of motorway with new border cross bridge over Mura as the last part of Zagreb - Budapest motorway in Croatia.

:cheers:


----------



## Tom 958

smokiboy said:


> The network of motorways in Croatia is quite extensive, but the motorway from Zagreb to Sisak, does not seem to make sense to me. Would not a motorway linking Karlovac and Krupina (to by-pass Zagreb) make more economic sense? However if the motorway is later connected to Banja Luka and Sarajevo it would be a good link to Central Bosnia, and perhaps even Montenegro and Albania ... what do you think?


Surely you saw this, but in case you didn't:


----------



## x-type

they are talking something about starting with works this year (first 10-15 km, Pula - Vodnjan). we'll see. however, before 2015 we cannot expect full profile at A8/A9. especially when we consider about new tube of tunnel Učka and completely new section and route from tunnel to Matulji (Rijeka)

btw, sorry for mistakes in my writing, i have food in my keyboard to feed half of Africa


----------



## Verso

Eww!


----------



## Tom 958

x-type said:


> btw, sorry for mistakes in my writing, i have food in my keyboard to feed half of Africa


After my son dumped a full cup of Coca Cola on my keyboard, my wife bought me a waterproof one. It's completely enclosed in flexible rubbery-but-transparent plastic, and it can be rolled up into a cylinder little bigger that a toilet paper roll. And washed in running water. The key pressure is weird, but I still use it occasionally if my real keyboard breaks and it's inconvenient to run right out and get a new one.


----------



## x-type

i don't have need for waterproof because my regular one showed itself as coffee-, cocacola-, water- and generally liquidproof  but when you have pistacchio and parts of croissant inside, it can make problems  (i don't see other things, probably they dissappear with time)


----------



## Verso

^^ No, they don't. Look inside better. uke:


----------



## bgplayer19

Croats I'm speechless !You must join EU as soon as possible with a road network like this !You will be an example to all of us


----------



## Timon91

^^Indeed. It would be one of the first new EU members with an extended and well-paved motorway network (no offense to other new EU members).


----------



## bgplayer19

I must say that you have really well maintained motorways


----------



## Tom 958

x-type said:


> ...but when you have pistacchio and parts of croissant inside, it can make problems  (i don't see other things, probably they dissappear with time)


Ants help with that. :nuts:

Really, Croatia has done an outstanding job with its motorway network, as have our forumers in presenting it to us. Thanks!


----------



## snupix

Chriszwolle said:


> The A11 can be seen Under Construction on Google Earth, just south of Zagreb they're constructing a cloverleaf.


It's this one:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=...2182,16.068192&spn=0.044006,0.080338&t=h&z=14

And that's pretty much it of the A11 for now. hno:


----------



## Alle

Impressive photos snupix






X-type said:


> i don't have need for waterproof because my regular one showed itself as coffee-, cocacola-, water- and generally liquidproof but when you have pistacchio and parts of croissant inside, it can make problems (*i don't see other things, probably they dissappear with time*)



:lol: Hehe you leave me flabbergasted. "They probably disappear with time..." :lol:

Well its good that we can rely on the physical law of sudden disappearance :lol:


----------



## x-type

Alle said:


> Well its good that we can rely on the physical law of sudden disappearance :lol:


you have never heard for mistery of dissappearing socks in washing machine?


----------



## KHS

*D1 Knin-Gracac*


----------



## KHS

*D1 Udbina*


----------



## ionutzyankoo

*Please do not quote all pics!*

What status has this D1 road? National road with european trafic (E..)? When was this road refurbished and how long is it? 
Thank u


----------



## bgplayer19

ionutzyankoo said:


> *Please do not quote all pics!*
> 
> What status has this D1 road? National road with european trafic (E..)? When was this road refurbished and how long is it?
> Thank u


I don't know but it looks great


----------



## Sponsor

KHS said:


>


Why is this signed as expressway [car] despite having emergency lanes??


----------



## x-type

ionutzyankoo said:


> What status has this D1 road? National road with european trafic (E..)? When was this road refurbished and how long is it?
> Thank u


it's a national road and it used to carry E71 number. frankly, i'm not sure if it still carries it or A1 became E71 (i know that A1 took E65 instead of D8)

there are several sections refurbished, often into 2+1 or 2+2. i know for Broćanac - Slušnica near Slunj (2+1) and somewhere between Sinj and Dugopolje is 2+2, but there are also more widened sections


Sponsor said:


> Why is this signed as expressway [car] despite having no emergency lanes??


because that section (Udbina bypass) is reserved only for motorized vehicles


----------



## ionutzyankoo

x-type said:


> it's a national road and it used to carry E71 number. frankly, i'm not sure if it still carries it or A1 became E71 (i know that A1 took E65 instead of D8)


I guess this is a normal process: when a new motorway is being built it automatically becomes an E.. road


----------



## x-type

now i have checked: A1 carries only E65, so D1 is still E71. and it is logical because E71 ends in Split, just the same as D1


----------



## Timon91

You shouldn't drive too fast on this Reijka viaduct (last 2 pix of snupix). Gives a big mess. What is the speed limit in this curve?


----------



## x-type

Timon Kruijk said:


> You shouldn't drive too fast on this Reijka viaduct (last 2 pix of snupix). Gives a big mess. What is the speed limit in this curve?


it's just an exit ramp so as usually speed limit is 40 i think. it's a knot "hanging" in the air. you can ssee it at 5th Snupix's photo counted from the bottom


----------



## KHS

P.C.Dolabella said:


>


:cheers:


----------



## Alexriga

Gusy, from where you have so much money for such roads there?


----------



## Rijeka

It's just loans...


----------



## dudu24

And Roads are priority since we are touristic country and all...


----------



## x-type

Rijeka said:


> It's just loans...


and gas price. 0,08€/l


----------



## Alexriga

x-type said:


> and gas price. 0,08€/l


Really? We can expect such highways at 2108 year when Chinese will build it


----------



## Zanovijetalo

^
And what about EU funds? Do you or other EE EU member countries get any money from there?


----------



## x-type

Alexriga said:


> Really? We can expect such highways at 2108 year when Chinese will build it


yes, from each bought litre of gas 0,08€ go to funds for building motorways. but we have expensive gas


----------



## Ballota

Yeah. It's some 1.2€/L. :bash:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

€ 1,57 today in NL...

I remember 2 years ago when it was € 1,16

Worse than that, the diesel fuel price has tripled in 7 years. I once filled up a truck with 1000 liters for 1000 guilders. That's now 1300 euro's (2.860 guilders).


----------



## RawLee

Zanovijetalo said:


> ^
> And what about EU funds? Do you or other EE EU member countries get any money from there?


We will only start using them this(or next) year AFAIK,Bulgaria already uses them.


----------



## bgplayer19

{^^ yes about Luylin and Trakiya  } <---- offtopic sry


----------



## x-type

Chriszwolle said:


> € 1,57 today in NL...
> 
> I remember 2 years ago when it was € 1,16
> 
> Worse than that, the diesel fuel price has tripled in 7 years. I once filled up a truck with 1000 liters for 1000 guilders. That's now 1300 euro's (2.860 guilders).


you have allways had extra expensive gas. croatian gas today is not among the most expensive in Europe, but untill oil crisis it was valued as gas in average old EU country. that's because our crappy government doesn't know how to say "no" to national oil company, who are rich monopolistic bastards


----------



## RawLee

x-type said:


> you have allways had extra expensive gas. croatian gas today is not among the most expensive in Europe, but untill oil crisis it was valued as gas in average old EU country. that's because our crappy government doesn't know how to say "no" to national oil company, who are rich monopolistic bastards


See? You should have sold INA to Mol entirely...Mol just announced that it wont raise the price of gasoline for truckers...for obvious reasons,which include raising sales...


----------



## x-type

^^ we had a protected price of gas (eurosuper 95) of 8 kn (app. 1,09€). it lasted for a long time, but then government (epithets in front of) said that they are unable to protect it anymore. btw, i think that you have more expensive gas then we do in this moment


----------



## RawLee

x-type said:


> ^^ we had a protected price of gas (eurosuper 95) of 8 kn (app. 1,09€). it lasted for a long time, but then government (epithets in front of) said that they are unable to protect it anymore. btw, i think that you have more expensive gas then we do in this moment


Yes we do,about 1,15€.


----------



## x-type

khm, we're the same then


----------



## Timon91

In Oman it cheaper than a bottle of mineral water.


----------



## Qwert

Timon Kruijk said:


> @Qwert: Is that Slovakia?
> When I was in Slovakia I saw some Gypsy's almost smashing down a "Posta" to get their money or sth. (Kezmarok I believe).
> Anyway, some nice tunnel pics! What is currently the longest tunnel in Croatia?


Yes, they've been waiting for social benefits on post office. Then they drink and celebrate for couple of days and for the rest of the month they are starving...hno:

BTW, to be at least a bit ontopic: Really nice tunnels!.


----------



## x-type

Timon Kruijk said:


> Anyway, some nice tunnel pics! What is currently the longest tunnel in Croatia?


those pics are all from connection road of centre of city Šibenik with exit Šibenik at A1, which is few km far from the city, behind some hills. this quadrigonal tunnel is almost in city centre, others are out of city at that connection road. they are not too long, 270, 500 and 360 m. 
currently the longest tunnel is Mala Kapela, 5780 m and probably it will stay the longest tunnel.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

x-type said:


> quadrigonal tunnel


What kind of tunnel? Seriously, i have never heard of a quadrigonal tunnel.


----------



## x-type

i don't know a word, this one that has not round walls, but sharp with corners 
litentia poetica


----------



## ChrisZwolle

cubical tunnel?


----------



## ABRob

This one:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w296/squirrelri/DSC07573.jpg
Thats cut&cover.


----------



## x-type

Chriszwolle said:


> cubical tunnel?


yes. actually i wanted to say rectangular, but i forgot the word, so i used greed roots


----------



## Verso

Cuboid, people, cuboid.


----------



## x-type

actually, if you are insisting at 3D, it is not cuboid, but prismatic.


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> actually, if you are insisting at 3D, it is not cuboid, but prismatic.


Maybe rectangularly prismatic. :lol:


----------



## x-type

uf, i thought that cuboid is adjective of cube :nuts: sry, you were right


----------



## Verso

Cuban! :lol:


----------



## mojaBL

Qwert said:


> Those pictures are from various places in Eastern Slovakia. There is 640 so called Gypsie villages in Slovakia according to official sources. They are located mainly in Eastern and Southern part of the country, they are usually relatively remote and separated from normal municipalities.
> 
> Why is it allowed? Do you think they ask somebody if they could build their "houses" there? They build them where they want no matter who is owner of the lots under them, no matter what is masterplan of the municipality and then they complain they don't have drinking water, heat, electricity, roads, etc. They steal electricity from closest electric wires, they steal wood from nearby forest (even from National parks), they drink (often contaminated) water from local river... When somebody builds them some infrastructure, they don't pay bills and thus everything is soon again switched off and then it looks like this.:nuts:


little rasist u think? 
I think that country didn´t get those ppl enough posiblities. U think someone wants to live like that? 
And you are making ghettos there.


----------



## x-type

BL, otvori si temu o humanizmu pa ga širi. ovdje nam ne trebaš oftopičariti s tim.


----------



## mojaBL

I na mene se zakaci, a 20 postova do sad bilo o tome.


----------



## x-type

20 postova bez prozivanja i provociranja s rasizmom


----------



## Qwert

mojaBL said:


> little rasist u think?
> I think that country didn´t get those ppl enough posiblities. U think someone wants to live like that?
> And you are making ghettos there.


Well, you started with racism. But, if writing facts is racism... 

OK, I think it's time to return back to the topic. The rest of my reply is in PM, I don't want to spoil this thread anymore.


----------



## mojaBL

x-type said:


> 20 postova bez prozivanja i provociranja s rasizmom


Nije to provokacija, nego mi je nevjerovatno da neko bas tako pise. A ako mislis da je ignorisanje ispravno onda ok. U svakom slucaju necu vise.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

English please.


----------



## muravidék

ooh, no need to, it is just an ordinary lovers quarrel:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## snupix

Some toll station:


----------



## x-type

^^Dugopolje toll station (exit to Split)


----------



## Timon91

Nice dark asphalt and shiny crashbarriers. Could have been Struma


----------



## Norsko

Is this yellow sign with the (quite Italian styled) triangleshaped arrows to find by all Croatian exits or only, for some reason, by a few? I ve been driving in Croatia, but never noticed this type of exit sign.


----------



## snupix

Norsko said:


> Is this yellow sign with the (quite Italian styled) triangleshaped arrows to find by all Croatian exits or only, for some reason, by a few? I ve been driving in Croatia, but never noticed this type of exit sign.



You can find it at all new exits, and I guess they'll be putting it on all exits. Obviously it has just become a standard last year.

You can see it here, too:


----------



## snupix

News are also the new big brown signs near tourist attractions (in the background):


----------



## x-type

Norsko said:


> Is this yellow sign with the (quite Italian styled) triangleshaped arrows to find by all Croatian exits or only, for some reason, by a few? I ve been driving in Croatia, but never noticed this type of exit sign.


they are starting to put them. at A2 each exit has them since few years, at other motorways i have noticed them in last 6 months.


----------



## Norsko

^^ Thanks! Your exits must be very good signposted.


----------



## x-type

snupix said:


> News are also the new big brown signs near tourist attractions (in the background):


actually, we had them since 2003, you knw that one near Maslenica with title Nacionalni parkovi Hrvatske (National parks of Croatia) which indicates few national parks nearby. but it was single example, other brown signs were mostly with single location. now it's about to change, too


----------



## snupix

x-type said:


> actually, we had them since 2003, you knw that one near Maslenica with title Nacionalni parkovi Hrvatske (National parks of Croatia) which indicates few national parks nearby. but it was single example, other brown signs were mostly with single location. now it's about to change, too


Yeah, but those are a single attraction ones, like for a specific national park or so... There are quite enough of them on the A1, and also on the A6 (Risnjak NP for example)... But the big brown ones above the road are new...


----------



## x-type

no no, there is a table near Maslenica with 4 (i think it's 4) national parks, not single  but it was more an exeption, especially when we consider about this high position


----------



## mojaBL

I don´t understand that about yellow italian styled signs. how did they look before? And how do they look now?


----------



## Verso

^ Actually snupix didn't show us the one Norsko meant. Those Italian-styled have the name of the exit at the top and then other destinations under it.


----------



## snupix

Verso said:


> ^ Actually snupix didn't show us the one Norsko meant. Those Italian-styled have the name of the exit at the top and then other destinations under it.


I suggest getting glasses, or even contact lenses, once you get used to them, it's fantastic.

Or another solution: 24" monitor with 800*600 resolution. :cheers:

:jk:


----------



## snupix

Here:


----------



## snupix

By the way, can't wait to see a sign like this on the A1 after leaving Zagreb. And if they put it just after toll station, it will be more than 600km to Dubrovnik... Now who's the boss? :lol: :cheers:


----------



## Verso

^ I saw a sign on D8 right after the exit for Krk island with Dubrovnik - 603 km or sth like that.



snupix said:


> I suggest getting glasses, or even contact lenses, once you get used to them, it's fantastic.
> 
> Or another solution: 24" monitor with 800*600 resolution. :cheers:
> 
> :jk:


Oh, it's the sign in the back!


----------



## renco

yap :lol:


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> Oh, it's the sign in the back!


Halelluyah! Celebrate Him! His mercy is great!! :lol:


----------



## Ballota

snupix said:


> By the way, can't wait to see a sign like this on the A1 after leaving Zagreb. And if they put it just after toll station, it will be more than 600km to Dubrovnik... Now who's the boss? :lol: :cheers:


They should put a sign towards Dubrovnik at Osijek! :crazy:
That would be some 1000km right? :hammer:


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> By small countries you sooner or later start discussing the same things. :lol:
> 
> Great pic, btw! :cheers:


yeah, Črni kal and longest green pass in this area are really nice things, don't you think?


----------



## Verso

^ Together we're large!

:lol:


----------



## P.C.Dolabella

*New 21km of A6 (Zagreb - Rijeka) motorway is opened to traffic*


----------



## Verso

P.C.Dolabella said:


> New 21km of A6 (Zagreb - Rijeka) motorway is opened to traffic


Like a week ago.  Hehe, it looks great as always (not even counting the nature!) and just one section to go, yay! :cheers:


----------



## Timon91

^^When will that be finished?
Pics are great :cheers:


----------



## P.C.Dolabella

Timon Kruijk said:


> ^^When will that be finished?
> Pics are great :cheers:


Two smaller remaining section will be open later this year and in coordination with Hungary at the end of the year whole motorway Budapest - Zagreb - Rijeka will be completed with opening new bridge on Mura river on the Croatian - Hungarian border. 
:cheers:


----------



## Mateusz

Croatia will come to the European Union with nice infrastructure


----------



## dudu24

MateoW said:


> Croatia will come to the European Union with nice infrastructure


 Will not, since we will never enter:banana:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

dudu24 said:


> Will not, since we will never enter:banana:


I think you will. Isolationist policy is never a good way, and since the entire area around Croatia will become EU someday, I think Croatia will join too. It's not like you guys are Switzerland. 

Anyway, I would be nice to have a country that already has a good infrastructure, as opposed to Poland and Romania for instance.


----------



## Timon91

Isn't the Croatia entry planned in 2010?


----------



## dudu24

Chriszwolle said:


> I think you will. Isolationist policy is never a good way, and since the entire area around Croatia will become EU someday, I think Croatia will join too. It's not like you guys are Switzerland.


 Only way we will enter in next 10 years if they change constitution so that there would not be referendum needed. Currently EU support is on 30%, all time low. And that survey was made pre Lisabon debacle.


----------



## Mateusz

It's bit redicilous, Eurpean Union let in Romania and Bulgaria (no offence to them) but doesn't let Coratia to enter until 2010 whatever


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Croatia is and was far ahead on Romania and Bulgaria, economy-wise, however, there were other issues with Croatia, war criminals if i remember correctly.


----------



## Mateusz

I suppose so, war thing slowed down access to EU


----------



## dudu24

Chriszwolle said:


> Croatia is and was far ahead on Romania and Bulgaria, economy-wise, however, there were other issues with Croatia, war criminals if i remember correctly.


 Potential war crimina*l* (not convicted yet, and as it seems from the way trial is going he wont spend much in jail, if he even will be sentenced). He was arrested 3 yrs ago and only reason why he is so famous is because he was was running... There are no open issues between EU and Croatia currently and thats why people are mad at EU here... one simple "you won't enter" or "you will enter" would clear lots of things up.


----------



## P.C.Dolabella

Croatia is next, 28 member of the Union. It's no doubt about that. All the chapters of negotiations will be concluded next year and than it's just the question of formality and right moment for political decision in the Union. 
:cheers:


----------



## dudu24

P.C.Dolabella said:


> Croatia is next, 28 member of the Union. It's no doubt about that. All the chapters of negotiations will be concluded next year and than it's just the question of formality and right moment for political decision in the Union.
> :cheers:


 Whats the point of negotiations when it won't pass the referendum ?


----------



## P.C.Dolabella

What referendum?


----------



## dudu24

P.C.Dolabella said:


> What referendum?


 That we will have about EU entrance? They avoided it for NATO, but it won't be possible for EU due to constitution.


----------



## P.C.Dolabella

There wouldn't be any referendum. All political parties in the Sabor are for EU and they do not need referendum.


----------



## dudu24

P.C.Dolabella said:


> There wouldn't be any referendum. All political parties in the Sabor are for EU and they do not need referendum.


 Not true. We will need to have referendum as our constitution says so. Our Prime Minister Sanader saying exactly the same: 

http://www.vlada.hr/hr/naslovnica/n...rendum_za_ulazak_u_eu_bez_referenduma_za_nato


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I don't like referendums, because the average citizen only votes with their emotions, rather than on a rational base. But the problem can be that politicans pull too much power. But if you put a referendum for everything, you'll get nothing done.


----------



## dudu24

Chriszwolle said:


> I don't like referendums, because the average citizen only votes with their emotions, rather than on a rational base. But the problem can be that politicans pull too much power. But if you put a referendum for everything, you'll get nothing done.


 Agree, some things just need to be done without asking people. If people gave you vote on elections they believed in you and that you will make the right choice...


----------



## P.C.Dolabella

Support for enter the EU in Croatia is constantly high enough for positive answer but there would not be referendum. 
Sanader promise referendum for NATO (Croatia will join NATO formally at the beginning of next year) but did he organize it?


----------



## dudu24

P.C.Dolabella said:


> Support for enter the EU in Croatia is constantly high enough for positive answer but there would not be referendum.


 Which part of "we can't join EU without referendum because our constitution doesn't allow it" didn't you understand? And support isn't even close to the 50% 



> Sanader promise referendum for NATO (Croatia will join NATO formally at the beginning of next year) but did he organize it?


 NATO referendum wasn't required by constitution.


----------



## P.C.Dolabella

I think Highways and Autoban forum is not the best place for that kind of discussion :lol:


----------



## dudu24

P.C.Dolabella said:


> I think Highways and Autoban forum is not the best place for that kind of discussion :lol:


 Thats for sure, we went offtopic too much


----------



## P.C.Dolabella

*Ecobridge on A6*

Place where you can really meet beers or wolfs ^^


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Beers? Like alcohol?


----------



## Timon91

^^:rofl:
Ožujsko beer maybe


----------



## Verso

He meant drunk bears. :lol: Btw, it's "wolves", not "wolfs".


----------



## x-type

Timon Kruijk said:


> ^^:rofl:
> Ožujsko beer maybe


not really, no breweries there. the nearest is in Karlovac or if there is some minor in Rijeka. 
btw, that green pass is at Dedin, the highest point of A6 motorway (i think it is 888 m, not sure)


----------



## dudu24

x-type said:


> not really, no breweries there. the nearest is in Karlovac or if there is some minor in Rijeka.
> btw, that green pass is at Dedin, the highest point of A6 motorway (i think it is 888 m, not sure)


 Blasphemy! :lol: Licanka is near, best brewery in Croatia. Velebitsko :cheers:


----------



## x-type

dudu24 said:


> Blasphemy! :lol: Licanka is near, best brewery in Croatia. Velebitsko :cheers:


Ličanka is 161 km far from Dedin. real lover of beer should know where his favourite brewery is located. you should try with Pago or Fructal


----------



## dudu24

x-type said:


> Ličanka is 161 km far from Dedin. real lover of beer should know where his favourite brewery is located. you should try with Pago or Fructal


 How the hell 161km? Isn't Licanka in some village near Plitvice?


----------



## x-type

well, Dedin is between RAvna Gora and Delnice. and Ličanka is in Donje Pazarište, which is again 80 km from Plitvice :lol: Donje Pazarište is between Gospić and, khm, nothing. it is at road that used to lead from Gospić to Zavižan, but that road is now closed and Donje Pazarište is prelast village at that road at the south.


----------



## dudu24

I'd prefer additional 80km than drinking Karlovacko


----------



## Grad

* Zagreb - Split motorway 375 km
Section 1 (Zagreb - Karlovac) 40 km was finished in 1972*


----------



## Kese

What a nice way back to ON topic! :lol:


----------



## x-type

who knows what artist wanted to say :dunno:


----------



## Grad

x-type said:


> who knows what artist wanted to say :dunno:


Well, the 1971 Zagreb - Split motorway logo, sertenly looks very Croatian


----------



## Fugit

What are new highways opened in 2008 in Croatia and Slovenia?


----------



## muravidék

you are interested in light green sections


----------



## Verso

I didn't know Croatia and Slovenia was one country.


----------



## muravidék

what is that supposed to mean? I let Croats do their job


----------



## Verso

I was refering to the question.


----------



## muravidék

ooh, Slovenia and Croatia, like Trinidad and Tobago, St.Vincent and the Grenadines, Antigua and Barbuda:lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Timon91

Netherlands and Belgium


----------



## x-type

muravidék said:


> ooh, Slovenia and Croatia, like Trinidad and Tobago, St.Vincent and the Grenadines, Antigua and Barbuda:lol::lol::lol:


thank god, this ain't happening


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Slocro or Croslo 

Perhaps Slohrv.


----------



## Verso

*Slo*cro :angel:


----------



## muravidék

I think we should have €35/55 vignette in this "twin state":lol:


----------



## Kese

Timon Kruijk said:


> Netherlands and Belgium


Which Belgium? :lol:


----------



## Timon91

Oh yeah, Netherlands and Flanders / France and Wallonia


----------



## Timon91

Has a final decision already be taken about the motorway to Dubrovnik (bridge or through Bosnia?)


----------



## ABRob

Timon Kruijk said:


> Has a final decision already be taken about the motorway to Dubrovnik (bridge or through Bosnia?)


I thought they started to buil a bridge for an expressway and build the motorway through Bosnia...


----------



## Verso

^^ A 4-lane expressway to Dubrovnik over the bridge, yes. Quite strange actually; I don't see the Adriatic-Ionian motorway through Bosnia (Herzegovina actually) built any time soon.


----------



## Mateusz

My new atlas is saying new stretch of A1 will be opened in 2008, when exactly and will that happen ?


----------



## Verso

^ To Ravča; some 50 km..


----------



## Klukas

40 km


----------



## x-type

yeah, i know that up to some 80, even 100 thousand vehicles is ok for 2+2, here the traffic flows mostly ok, but often in 2 parallel rows. fortunately, there are no jams with speeds about 40 km/h except in the case of road works or accident. and that's because Zagreb is lucky to have bypass quite far from centre so it doesn't have almost none characteristics od city motorway


----------



## DJZG

Chriszwolle said:


> 40.000 doesn't require 2x3. There's plenty of room to carry up to 65.000/70.000 without significant congestion. However, if they project higher volumes in the future, it's smart to widen the motorway during the next couple of years.
> 
> In the Netherlands, there are 2x2 roads that carry over 100.000 vehicles/day.


that's a true fact...

i think road with highest amount of traffic per day in whole Croatia is the road from New Zagreb over Buzin intersection towards Velika Gorica, and it carries around 80 000 vehicles per day... so even the most congested road isn't that much... 
that's why this bypass is currently ok, except some intersections that need to be upgraded... and if you take all that traffic amount, second bypass really isn't necessary...


----------



## x-type

Chriszwolle said:


> 40.000 doesn't require 2x3. There's plenty of room to carry up to 65.000/70.000 without significant congestion. However, if they project higher volumes in the future, it's smart to widen the motorway during the next couple of years.
> 
> In the Netherlands, there are 2x2 roads that carry over 100.000 vehicles/day.


ok, i have found datum for 2006:

at Zagreb bypass the most crowded sections were Jankomir - Lučko (southwest part) and Lučko - Buzin (south part). i have datum only for summer period, first section had 64558, second had 61849. it is only for summer, but i think it could be enough for serious thinking about 3+3. at other sections average annual traffic is decreased from average summer traffic for about 25% east from Lučko, and about 30% west from Lučko.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Well, the French A7 also only carries 70.000 on average, while they're talking about even a widening to 2x5 or build a parallel motorway.


----------



## x-type

ok, it is France, but i think that those 65000 (now possible even 70000) in summer are enough reason to make us happy with 3+3. do you know maybe traffic amount at Czech D1 where it is 3+3?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ 72 - 48 thousand
http://www.ceskedalnice.cz/prilohy/intenzita.jpg


----------



## DJZG

x-type said:


> ok, it is France, but i think that those 65000 (now possible even 70000) in summer are enough reason to make us happy with 3+3. do you know maybe traffic amount at Czech D1 where it is 3+3?



i think that number in summer time exceeds 70k maybe even by 100%... 

and we shouldn't forget Lucko intersection which was built in 70's and for much smaller projection of traffic back then...


----------



## x-type

DJZG said:


> i think that number in summer time exceeds 70k maybe even by 100%...
> 
> and we shouldn't forget Lucko intersection which was built in 70's and for much smaller projection of traffic back then...


no, i gave datum for average summer traffic  observing a whole year it is about 25-30% less number 

about Lučko - i agree - it is really large, but outdated intersection. lanes are really narrow at ramps. at least curves are not sharp


----------



## DJZG

x-type said:


> no, i gave datum for average summer traffic  observing a whole year it is about 25-30% less number
> 
> about Lučko - i agree - it is really large, but outdated intersection. lanes are really narrow at ramps. at least curves are not sharp


i think there were some photos somewhere came up in papers or something like that... they did some investigation and seems like whole intersection is falling apart... 
before any constructions it is necessary to completely build a new intersection... its time has passed... i hope they will come up with some plan about it...


----------



## Mateusz

New bypass of Zagreb then, like on the project :cheers:


----------



## jkjkjk

Chriszwolle said:


> ^^ 72 - 48 thousand
> http://www.ceskedalnice.cz/prilohy/intenzita.jpg


2005 version: 94 - 59 ths
http://www.rsd.cz/rsd/rsd.nsf/a3eda25d005dc6bec125737e0045602e/14da61bcdce865a7c12571560036eede/$FILE/intenzity2005.jpg

Anyway because of unfinished R1 expr. all transit is using prague inner ring that is 3+3, but it has AADT 127 and 125 in worst parts (in 2006)
very bad prague traffic density map


----------



## H123Laci

MateoW said:


> New bypass of Zagreb then, like on the project :cheers:


I'd like to see a similar one around budapest:








[larger version]

this network would solve the traffic problem around the capital for at least a century...


----------



## Mateusz

Situation will be improved much when they will finish this whole ring M0 around Budapest


----------



## H123Laci

^^yes, you're right. 
the eastern and northern part will be opened this fall... :banana::banana::banana::banana:

but the western part is lost in the far-far future... (the estimated date is 2020) hno:hno:hno:

there is far more traffic on the southern part (ADT of 90.000) as on the ZAGREB bypass, and it is a narrow 2x2 w/o emergency lane, so it is heavily congested.

start of the widening to 2x3(+1) is planned next year (2009).
it will give us a little break... but not too long:

it is part of the No. IV corridor (towards romania and bulgaria) and the forecasted traffic increase is significant.

So we should have to plan (and build) a 2nd southern bypass to be ready for this traffic increase...
(ADT of 120.000 is too much for even a 2x3, so it is better to divert the transit traffic to a new route...

sorry for being OFF... :bash:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think Budapest will recieve a significant amount of through traffic of trucks, since Romania and Bulgaria are emerging economies, and Constanta is a very important harbor.


----------



## Siwy21

Have they already opened section A1 between Sestanovac and Ploce????


----------



## DJZG

Siwy21 said:


> Have they already opened section A1 between Sestanovac and Ploce????


not yet... that section is around 60km long... and they currently are working from Sestanovac towards Zagvozd and on section Zagvozd-Ravca... i think they've also started construction towards Ploce but it won't be opened till end of 2009...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

December 2008 according to wikipedia.


----------



## DJZG

Chriszwolle said:


> December 2008 according to wikipedia.


could be it isn't updated long time...

i was referring to Dalmatians daily news from May this year...

http://www.slobodnadalmacija.hr/Auto-moto/tabid/90/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/6338/Default.aspx


----------



## x-type

Chriszwolle said:


> December 2008 according to wikipedia.


it was older plan, motorway construction is slowing down now when main things are built. this year it comes to Ravča, and next to Ploče.


----------



## Mateusz

At least to Ravca


----------



## KHS

MountMan said:


>


:cheers:


----------



## KHS

lider30 said:


>


:cheers:


----------



## DJZG

^^

where are these pictures taken?


----------



## x-type

DJZG said:


> ^^
> 
> where are these pictures taken?


first 2 are A1 but i cannot figure out where exactly, looking at surounding it could be somewhere areound Bosiljevo intersection. 
second 2 are of course between Sveti Rok and Maslenica (first is the fantastic sight on a motorway just after tunnel Sveti Rok in direction south, and secon one is approaching exit Sveti Rok at north side of the tunnel


----------



## DJZG

x-type said:


> first 2 are A1 but i cannot figure out where exactly, looking at surounding it could be somewhere areound Bosiljevo intersection.
> second 2 are of course between Sveti Rok and Maslenica (first is the fantastic sight on a motorway just after tunnel Sveti Rok in direction south, and secon one is approaching exit Sveti Rok at north side of the tunnel


lol yes now i see... it would be nice if there was information where picture was taken in post so other people not from croatia would know 

btw... that third picture in live is awesome... one of the best parts when going from Zagreb to Split  a 'must see' to all fans of highways in world


----------



## x-type

today morning was critical at toll station Lučko at entrance (usually jams are at exit), row was up to 6 km long (cars were standing at A3 motorway up to service area Lučko - Plitvice).. now things are getting to normal - no more lanes at entrance, but at exit it is currently about 5 km and could easily reach 15 or more.

at A1 tunnels it was not critical, rows were up to 6 km (tunnels have been opened only for one direction, and coordination was functional because there were not jams up to 20 km as usual).

curiosity: toll station Sveta Helena at A4 also had jams up to 3-4 km, what is really unusual


----------



## H123Laci

^^ it seems your tourism business started up... 

maybe you should increase the capacity of the toll booths...


----------



## x-type

it has started 2 months ago, but these weekends are top of the traffic jams. usually the one in the middle of july is the hardest, bt this year this one seems to be that


----------



## vardar

This is funny or just plain scary depending on which way you look at it. Im surprised there werent more accidents in the clips considering how many people were driving in the wrong direction, anyway "enjoy" the driving skills of a few idiots on the Zagreb-Rijeka section.


----------



## muravidék

hno:mg::crazy::nuts:


----------



## H123Laci

^^ Mamma mia, Saint Joseph, Jesus Christ and Oh my god...

where did they get these idiots?

Has the loony bin closed?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

All their driving licences should have been revoked for 1 year.


----------



## vardar

Some of them should be shot but a few seemed completely unaware of what they were doing, maybe this was when the motorway was just opening and that led to some confusion :dunno:


----------



## Qwert

I like that music, but otherwise, those idiots should not get their driving licence back for the rest of their life.hno:


----------



## LtBk

I hope most Croatian drivers aren't like that.


----------



## Junkie

WTF? Lol this is catastrophic.


----------



## dudu24

Typical highway crash... some people just don't use rear mirrors.


----------



## Palance

At least there is one dangerous driver less in the world.

Are there any pictures available of the new A11 between Zagreb and Velika Gorica? I will be there in september for some days but I am afraid I will not have any time nor the possibillity to drive there and take some pictures.


----------



## x-type

dudu24 said:


> Typical highway crash... some people just don't use rear mirrors.


this was a hungarian driver



Palance said:


> At least there is one dangerous driver less in the world.
> 
> Are there any pictures available of the new A11 between Zagreb and Velika Gorica? I will be there in september for some days but I am afraid I will not have any time nor the possibillity to drive there and take some pictures.


he survived. actually, there were not serious injuries.

about A11 - it is not opened yet, it is at the beginning of the construction


----------



## Palance

x-type said:


> this was a hungarian driver
> 
> 
> 
> he survived. actually, there were not serious injuries.
> 
> about A11 - it is not opened yet, it is at the beginning of the construction


I see. I thought that a small part already had been opened, but apperantly I was wrong. Oh well, I don't have to be afraid that I miss something. Then I will only make pictures in Zagreb.


----------



## snupix

Palance said:


> I see. I thought that a small part already had been opened, but apperantly I was wrong. Oh well, I don't have to be afraid that I miss something. Then I will only make pictures in Zagreb.


We look forward to seeing them on the Croatian forum


----------



## x-type

Palance said:


> I see. I thought that a small part already had been opened, but apperantly I was wrong.


there is actually one part made, but it is not opened for traffic. it is one intersection and motorway around it. we say that it leads from corn to wheat


----------



## Palance

Ah, you mean that weird intersection near Velika Gorica? 

No time to visit that one, unfortunately. I will make (and post, of course) pictures from Zagreb anyway.


----------



## P.C.Dolabella

*A1 near Ravča*


----------



## keber

is this viaduct on the section of A1, which should be opened until end of this year?


----------



## x-type

yes, it is


----------



## radi6404

There are awesome mountains in Croatia but unfortunately they wont learn to build motorways with great design. do they apply zinc on those crashbarriers at all, probably a very thin layer of zinc because zinc usually shines when it is new.


----------



## dudu24

oh boy... there he goes again


----------



## Timon91

^^Just try to get used to it


----------



## goxic

radi6404 said:


> There are awesome mountains in Croatia but unfortunately they wont learn to build motorways with great design. do they apply zinc on those crashbarriers at all, probably a very thin layer of zinc because zinc usually shines when it is new.


:lol::lol::lol::lol: :nuts:


----------



## Zanovijetalo

We must build our roads by ourselves, no EU funding… Zinc is so darn expensive on the world markets nowadays 










http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/zinc.html

However we might have a petition to the government to redirect some money to zinc instead of, I dunno, social welfare


----------



## dudu24

We are considering to suspend all pension funds and use that money to create shiny crash barriers. Old ppl can go fvck themself.


----------



## Timon91

Like it should be in every country: crashbarriers first, people second


----------



## Mateusz

That's just paranoia about these crashbarriers...

Croatia will have pretty decent network when entering to EU will come


----------



## x-type

zinc??


----------



## dudu24

MateoW said:


> That's just paranoia about these crashbarriers...
> 
> Croatia will have pretty decent network when entering to EU will come


 Thats not paranoia, thats radi


----------



## KHS

@ Radi :gaah:


----------



## Timon91

MateoW said:


> Croatia will have pretty decent network when entering to EU will come


How many km's of motorway do they have currently?

And about the Croatian border: how long does it take you normally to cross the Hungarian-Croatian border M7/A4? And the border with Slovenia A2/A3? 

@Radi: :bash::banana::evil::banned::naughty::gaah::wallbash::llama::crazy2::badnews::clown::weird::crazy::guns1::devil::mad2::hammer::gunz::nuts:


----------



## x-type

Timon Kruijk said:


> How many km's of motorway do they have currently?
> 
> And about the Croatian border: how long does it take you normally to cross the Hungarian-Croatian border M7/A4? And the border with Slovenia A2/A3?


i have counted it somewhere few months ago, i don't know precisely right now, but in range of 950 and 980 km. i'm talking only about full profiled, so at least 2 lanes for each direction, greenery in the middle and SOS lanes. including expressways we have near 1200 km. 

A4/M7 -> depends about crowds. in normal conditions 5 min (+ at least 5-10 min for buying hungarian vignette in container sale store). but i think that there are never larger jams there and waiting time is max 30 min in the worst situations (july/august sundays for direction H and friday/saturday mornings for direction HR). for entering SLovenia at Bregana/Obrežje (A3/A3) jams can be larger and in the worst situations waiting time can be extended to 1 h, but also in rush summer days only (or winter for skiing)


----------



## Manolo_B2

radi6404 said:


> There are awesome mountains in Croatia but unfortunately they wont learn to build motorways with great design. do they apply zinc on those crashbarriers at all, probably a very thin layer of zinc because zinc usually shines when it is new.


radi... your comments are so funny! you must be a weird person... :lol:


----------



## AdmNorton

Timon Kruijk said:


> How many km's of motorway do they have currently?


Wouldn't know for sure, but it is in the 1,000 km ballpark, 100 more or less.

Edit: HUKA says 1,163 km 



Timon Kruijk said:


> And about the Croatian border: how long does it take you normally to cross the Hungarian-Croatian border M7/A4? And the border with Slovenia A2/A3?


In the summer it can be about one to two hours wait, but it's usually very short.


----------



## Turnovec

radi6404 said:


> There are awesome mountains in Croatia but unfortunately they wont learn to build motorways with great design. do they apply zinc on those crashbarriers at all, probably a very thin layer of zinc because zinc usually shines when it is new.


^^ IDIOT!!!


----------



## x-type

Timon Kruijk said:


> How many km's of motorway do they have currently?


i have found where i had counted it few months ago. if i update it now, we get 978 km of full-profiled motorways right now. by the end of year we'll have 996 km of them. and we have 272 km of expressways.
let me represent them precisly:

D1 Split(Bilice) - Dicmo 18 km (1+2, partially 2/2 with green belt in the middle), 
D3 Matulji - Orehovica 14 km (2/2 cca 3 km Matulji - Diračje, being upgraded at full section into 2/2)
A7 Orehovica - Sv. Kuzam 6 km (2/2)
D8 Kaštel Gomilica - Stobreč 15 km (2/2, partially with intersections with traffic lights)
D28 Sv. Helena - Gradec 25 km (2/2)
D33 Šibenik - Tromilja 10 km (1+1)
D502 Gaženica - Zadar 2 18 km (2/2)
D522 Udbina - Gornja Ploča 15 km
Ddunno-the-number - Čaporice 6 km

Σ 127 km

A2 tunel Sv. Tri kralja - Đurmanec 4 km
B8 Matulji - Kanfanar 64 km
B9 Pula - Umag 77 km

Σ 145 km

ΣΣ 272 km



A1 Lučko - Šestanovac 417 km
A2 Jankomir - Trakošćan 59 km *
A3 GP Bregana - GP Bajakovo 305 km
A4 Ivanja Reka - Goričan 97 km
A5 Sredanci - Đakovo 23 km
A6 Bosiljevo 2 - Orehovica 81 km **
A7 Matulji - Rupa 17 km

Σ 999 km

* A2 - 4 km between the tunnel Sveta Tri kralja and exit Đurmanec are made as half-profiled 1/1, upgrade expected soon.

** A6 - 17 km are still made in half-profile as 1/1 or 2/1. upgrade is being finnished and expected to have full motorway till the end of 2008.


----------



## Timon91

Ok, thanks guys for your answers on my question


----------



## AdmNorton

Yeah, I forgot about the B8/B9 (Istrian Y)


----------



## KHS

*A1*



krzamak said:


>


:cheers:


----------



## KHS

This looks great! :banana:



P.C.Dolabella said:


> Sadnja oliandera na A1 kod Splita


----------



## dudu24

Awesome view!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Part II*


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*[HR] Croatian motorways / autoceste II*

*previous part*

Enjoy and get it on. (ZZ Top). 

last few pics:



krzamak said:


>


:cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Skyscrapercity links:
[Croatia] - Motorways I
[Croatia] - Motorways II
[Croatia] - Motorways III
[Croatia] - Motorways IV

Official links:
www.hac.hr
www.azm.hr
www.arz.hr
www.bina-istra.hr
www.huka.hr

*Everyone is welcomed to contribute on this thread! Enjoy!* :cheers:


----------



## KHS

*EuroTAP - Tunnel Test 2008*

*Veliki Gložac*

EUROTAP rating: Very good

Location:	Croatia, near Vrbovsko A 6 between Zagreb and Rijeka

Year opened: North tube in 2004/ south tube in 2007

Length:	1,130m

Portal height level:	494 / 473m above sea level

Number of tubes: 2 / unidirectional traffic

Speed limit: 100kph

Vehicles per day: 10,750

Share of HGVs:	15%

Breakdowns / accidents / fires:	8 / 0 / 0

Risk: Low


*Strengths *

* Two tubes with cross-connections as additional escape and rescue routes every 320 metres max.
* Traffic lights and barriers in front of the portals
* Traffic radio throughout the tunnel, the operator can broadcast messages 
* Full video surveillance 
* Automatic detection of traffic disruptions, as well as the use of lay-bys, emergency phones or fire extinguishers
* Lay-bys in the middle of the tunnel
* Sound-insulated emergency phones and fire extinguishers provided every 300 metres
* Evacuation lighting for tunnel escape routes, showing the escape direction and distance to the nearest exit
* No smoke or heat can penetrate into external escape routes, doors are sufficiently fire-resistant
* Automatic fire alarm system, in the event of fire, fire ventilation is automatically activated and the tunnel closed
* Ventilation is powerful enough to deal with a fire
* Rescue service vehicles can cross at the portals
* Rescue route for emergency service vehicles leading to neighbouring tube located in the middle of the tunnel
* Tunnel control centre manned around the clock by trained staff
* Radio communications possible throughout the tunnel for tunnel staff, police and fire brigade
* Up-to-date and complete emergency response plan
* Regular training for tunnel staff
* Regular emergency drills

*Weaknesses*

* No loudspeakers
* Distance between emergency phones and fire extinguishers is 300 metres and hence relatively long
* The maximum time of use for the fire brigade's respiratory equipment is too short

*Briefly and to the point*

* The low risk found for driving through the tunnel was primarily due to the low traffic volume of around 11,000 vehicles per day with unidirectional traffic and a tunnel length of only 1.1 kilometres. The HGV share, however, is 15 percent.
* Unidirectional traffic, sufficiently wide lanes, lay-bys and lighting are the main reasons for the very good result for preventive measures. The tunnel is monitored around the clock in a tunnel control centre manned by trained staff. 
* Incidents in the tunnel are automatically reported to the tunnel control centre by video link. If necessary, motorists are guided using traffic lights and variable traffic signs along with information provided via traffic radio. An automatic fire alarm system detects fires, activates ventilation, and closes the tunnel. The short distance to be covered by the fire brigade and the supply of fire-fighting water in the tunnel ensure effective fire fighting. An emergency response plan and regular drills ensure good co-operation between the tunnel control centre and the emergency services.
* In the event of fire, there are good necessary preconditions in place for effective self-rescue. The ventilation system draws smoke out of the tube affected in the direction of traffic to a zone where there are usually no people.Anybody downstream from the fire is located in a smoke-free zone and can leave the tunnel through the clearly marked emergency exits.


http://www.eurotestmobility.com/eurotap.php?itemno=254&lang=EN#VelikiGlozac


----------



## DinoBond007

A8 and A9 are highways???? They are 2-lane (1+1) expressways!!!


----------



## x-type

DinoBond007 said:


> A8 and A9 are highways???? They are 2-lane (1+1) expressways!!!


and who said those were motorways? :? there is blue sign when entering them, not green


----------



## Verso

DinoBond007: highway = glavna cesta, motorway = avtocesta.


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> DinoBond007: highway = glavna cesta, motorway = avtocesta.


i think his post was refered to map. and that map just shows all roads under concessions in Croatia, nt neccesserly motorways.


----------



## Verso

In any case, I know Hungarians also count their 2-lane expressways, like most of M70, in the length of their motorways (though you Croats stopped doing that). They know they aren't motorways, but they count them in. For example, I only count in 4-lane expressways, but if anyone's interested, I have the length of (real) motorways too (in Slovenia, I mean). As for numbering, *A*8/*A*9 doesn't necessarily mean it's a motorway (*a*utocesta), rather than expressway (*b*rza cesta), b/c it's scheduled for both to become motorways soon, so in Croatia you just eliminated the B* designations, if I'm correct. The Slovenian H4 is also partly motorway, for example.


----------



## x-type

but Istrian Y expressays are really signed as B8 and B9, not A. they are just on some maps signed as A roads.


----------



## DinoBond007

x-type said:


> but Istrian Y expressays are really signed as B8 and B9, not A. they are just on some maps signed as A roads.


And when are they planing to build full profile motorway???
And I also heard that they are planing to build tunnel under Sljeme???


----------



## x-type

i don't know anything about widening yet. they've been talking something about it, i guess from next year if i remember well, but i doubt. my guess that first widened section will be at B9 from Pula to Kanfanar (knot with B8). those plans about widening are in longer terms, especially B8 which has a lots of viaducts and tunnel Učka, and there should be completely new section from tunnel Učka to knot Matulji (with A7) which goes more northern from existing.

tunnel under Sljeme - mayor Bandić has to get green light for that project, so he must approve it's profitability.


----------



## DinoBond007

x-type said:


> tunnel under Sljeme - mayor Bandić has to get green light for that project, so he must approve it's profitability.


Whit kind of tunnel will be (railway, road, motorway) and from Zagreb to where (Stubičke)??? And I think, that if they build this tunnel they will have to construct new road in Zagreb but I don't know how because there is no space...?


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## x-type

i don't know much about that project so i don't like to talk about it. but, yes, 100% entrance at the opposite side should be somewhere near Donja Stubica.


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## DJZG

DinoBond007 said:


> Whit kind of tunnel will be (railway, road, motorway) and from Zagreb to where (Stubičke)??? And I think, that if they build this tunnel they will have to construct new road in Zagreb but I don't know how because there is no space...?


actually it is a pretty good idea... but i'd say nothing will happen for years... 
first... north side of Zagreb doesn't have speedroads or 2-lane roads of any kind... meaning they have to build one so that tunnel can lead to something... (some plans talking about northern bypass, now just an distant dream)
one main road leading to north side of Zagreb is actually 1+2 lane road which shares two lanes with tramway... so currently that road is pretty congested for most part of the day... and there is very little space for widening that road... 
as far as i know, other exit should be at Kraljev Vrh, somewhat left of Stubicke, around 10-20km... but seems that people on other side, doesn't want changing their rural landscape into something urban... so that's another problem...
and ofcourse, main thing is money... Zagreb won't have that amount of money for that kind of project... and it wouldn't solve much of traffic, it would only make more congestion in north part of town... hno:

maybe that northern bypass will come true one day...


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## KHS

*A1 Šestanovac - Zagvozd*

http://www.serdar.hr/Galerija/autoput/Page/autocestakolovoz.html


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## Timon91

That'll be another section of beautiful motorway in Croatia :cheers:


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## Manolo_B2

Viadukt Mirna, captured by me...


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## SeanT

They do not call it motorway but expressway ( gyorsforgalmi út or autóút).
M is a sign for a faster way than a major road!!!


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## Piotrek_409

Do You know how Croatian authorities are planning to fix the problem with Neum - the BiH short (few kilometers) part of coast in the south?

the motorway is going to cross the Bosnia or Herzegovina territory? ...or it is going to bypass it by neighbouring islands?

the second option seems to be damaging for environment


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## Palance

I have been to Zagreb last weekend and, of course, made some pictures. Please see this thread for my album with more pics of Zagreb. I'll post some traffic-related pics here:


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## DJZG

Piotrek_409 said:


> Do You know how Croatian authorities are planning to fix the problem with Neum - the BiH short (few kilometers) part of coast in the south?
> 
> the motorway is going to cross the Bosnia or Herzegovina territory? ...or it is going to bypass it by neighbouring islands?
> 
> the second option seems to be damaging for environment


they are planning to build Peljesac bridge... IMO one of the stupidest solutions ever made by our politicians... i don't know how much will it cost, but it will bring us down in red...


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## dudu24

DJZG said:


> they are planning to build Peljesac bridge... IMO one of the stupidest solutions ever made by our politicians... i don't know how much will it cost, but it will bring us down in red...


 Bulshit. Some vital projects just don't have price. With that bridge our country will finally be connected and we won't depend on BiH and their blackmailing policy ever again. So :banana::banana::cheers: for that bridge no matter how much it costs.

Few pics from there:


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## x-type

dudu24 said:


> Bulshit. Some vital projects just don't have price. With that bridge our country will finally be connected and we won't depend on BiH and their blackmailing policy ever again. So :banana::banana::cheers: for that bridge no matter how much it costs.


we could connect it without any problems without bridge if we would have skilful government. but they are just using less resistance way to do some things, instead of showing some skills that normal government should have. and that less resistance way is expensive. very expensive.


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## dudu24

x-type said:


> we could connect it without any problems without bridge if we would have skilful government. but they are just using less resistance way to do some things, instead of showing some skills that normal government should have. and that less resistance way is expensive. very expensive.


 Other side didn't want such option. As far as i've read only way they would allow Croatia to connect itself trough BiH is if highway would go trough Hercegovina all the way down to Dubrovnik. And that isn't and can't be option. And most important part.. that highway would go trough other country... politics is a biatch.. who knows what could happen in future there and that part would ALWAYS be used when our and theirs gov would argue. Its better this way.


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## dubart

x-type said:


> we could connect it without any problems without bridge if we would have skilful government. but they are just using less resistance way to do some things, instead of showing some skills that normal government should have. and that less resistance way is expensive. very expensive.


That way needs a skilful goverment in B&H as well, which I somehow find impossible to expect


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## x-type

ok, but our incapable government agreed with that as it was the only soution. they didn't do their best to try to make BIH to allow us to make a coridor under our terms. actually, maybe they have done their best, but that only shows their huge incapacity.


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## dubart

Look on the bright side... At least we'll have a nice bridge :lol:


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## RawLee

dudu24 said:


> Other side didn't want such option. As far as i've read only way they would allow Croatia to connect itself trough BiH is if highway would go trough Hercegovina all the way down to Dubrovnik. And that isn't and can't be option. And most important part.. that highway would go trough other country... politics is a biatch.. who knows what could happen in future there and that part would ALWAYS be used when our and theirs gov would argue. Its better this way.


I think in Austria is a similar case,where A1 and A12 is connected via Germany...


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## dudu24

RawLee said:


> I think in Austria is a similar case,where A1 and A12 is connected via Germany...


 Yes but Austria had to negotiate with flexible partners. We had to negotiate with side that was crying because we are building bridge on our own soil and because of which that bridge will be 55m tall even tho biggest ship that can enter Neum bay doesn't even come close to that (even half of that height would be too much).


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## dubart

RawLee said:


> I think in Austria is a similar case,where A1 and A12 is connected via Germany...


Germany and B&H could never be compared, in any way


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## Verso

RawLee said:


> I think in Austria is a similar case,where A1 and A12 is connected via Germany...


Even in Yugoslavia (Slovenia), where two parts were connected through Italy. And that was in the Cold War. Although Austria-Germany-Austria isn't the same, cause you can leave motorway in Germany several times, so you had to show your documents at the two border crossings (now it's Schengen anyway).


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## dudu24

Verso we are talking about 50km here in case that highway to Dubrovnik would go trough Hercegovina, not 3,4 like it was in your case


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## x-type

that's what BIH wanted. but i don't see the reason why couldn't we figh for 10 km coridor at Neum


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## Verso

Well, at least Pelješac and Korčula will be better connected to the rest of Croatia. :cheers:


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## Piotrek_409

Do You have any "visualizations", maps how 'the peljesac" part of the motorway is going to look like?


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## x-type

Piotrek_409 said:


> Do You have any "visualizations", maps how 'the peljesac" part of the motorway is going to look like?


there are images of future bridge and some maps of road's route with objects (tunnels etc.). it will be 2 km long cable-stayed bridge with large span (second largest in Europe)


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## DJZG

it's a shame we couldn't agree on that really stupid matter... 
later on, when everyone enters in EU we will get a useless bridge and opened corridor without borders... 
all that amount of money could be invested in some bigger problems than that...


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## dudu24

DJZG said:


> it's a shame we couldn't agree on that really stupid matter...
> later on, when everyone enters in EU we will get a useless bridge and opened corridor without borders...
> all that amount of money could be invested in some bigger problems than that...


I can't believe that someone can actually think like you... 

Yes, its better to build 50km of highway in FOREIGN country than build it in your own country and let people benefit from it??! 

And btw. BiH will NOT build anything there, even with eventual "Schengen borders" there all that will exist there will be local road because no one actually lives on route that BiH gov proposed. It was either this or that. There won't be both. Our gov decided only reasonable and logic thing there was. To build bridge from which mostly OUR people will benefit and not to build highway for other country. 

Did you actually read the projects or you are just talking out of your ass in this "anti gov" rage? 

I don't even want to mention what does this mean for further development of Peljesac and nearby islands.


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## ABRob

Piotrek_409 said:


> Do You have any "visualizations", maps how 'the peljesac" part of the motorway is going to look like?


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=541284

Will this bridge be A1 or will it be an extra expressway aditional to the A1 through BiH?


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## x-type

as the things are currently going on - it will be A1.


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## DJZG

everything you've stated is true... and i agree with you...
but i'm not sure if that bridge will ever pay itself out... too much investment and too low profit... 
and at the end, we, Croatia, are acting like UAE and Dubai building a 12-lane bridge just to show we can build it...


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## dubart

ABRob said:


> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=541284
> 
> Will this bridge be A1 or will it be an extra expressway aditional to the A1 through BiH?


It will be a part of A1 and the project is upgraded to a 4-lane one...


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## keber

dudu24 said:


> Verso we are talking about 50km here in case that highway to Dubrovnik would go trough Hercegovina, not 3,4 like it was in your case


With careful planning it's more like 7-8 km.


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## dudu24

keber said:


> With careful planning it's more like 7-8 km.


 How? BiH gov said that they will accept only this 










And wasting money on 50 km of highway in other country is pointless and we shouldn't even consider it. Thankfully our gov for once did the right choice and dropped BiH out of this job due to their blackmailing and bad attitude. It could have worked well with smaller coridor and BiH companies could have been involved in the project as well... but well... ya know


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## dudu24

DJZG said:


> everything you've stated is true... and i agree with you...
> but i'm not sure if that bridge will ever pay itself out... too much investment and too low profit...
> and at the end, we, Croatia, are acting like UAE and Dubai building a 12-lane bridge just to show we can build it...


 Profit is something that shouldn't be priority in vital project like this where we are connecting 2 parts of our country.


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## keber

dudu24 said:


> How? BiH gov said that they will accept only this


Actually I never heard much talk of both governments about finding right corridor. However I heard much talk about new bridge.
I have a feeling, that Croatian government didn't bother much with corridor and they rather forced to build Pelješac bridge.


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## DJZG

and i'm only saying it's a lot of money man... a lot a lot... 
croatia is filled up with wrong type of investments and bad projects... i have a really strange feeling we will regret all this money we threw on it...


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## KHS

vbkluht said:


> Mali povratak u ljeto
> 
> Ovo ljeto imao sam prilike voziti se autocestom do Šestanovca i dalje običnom cestom do magistrale pa da podjelim s onima koji još nisu išli tim putem, evo par sličica
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:cheers:


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## Timon91

These beautiful pics could well be used as tourist ads


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## Verso

Gorgeous nature, I agree.


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## x-type

Mateusz said:


> Rijeka must be a mtropoly or what :cheers: two bypasses of high class


no, Rijeka just "ate" existing bypass


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## Manolo_B2

New plans for a second motorway ring for the city of Zagreb. The construction work
should last for 4 years until 2013. The city will be relieved from transit traffic by the ring.

:hi:


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## Mateusz

Are there pics from current bypass (A3) ?


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## DJZG

Manolo_B2 said:


> New plans for a second motorway ring for the city of Zagreb. The construction work
> should last for 4 years until 2013. The city will be relieved from transit traffic by the ring.
> 
> :hi:


already mentioned here in some past pages...
but seems it's just an idea than a project... don't think it will happen soon...


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## x-type

Mateusz said:


> Are there pics from current bypass (A3) ?


yes, try so search in previous threads (chech second postm there is a list) or go to Euroscrapers/Croatia/Croatian motorways and search in those 10 threads 

hjere are some:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a203/ixic/A4-D28/IMGP1404.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a203/ixic/A4-D28/IMGP1416.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a203/ixic/A4-D28/IMGP1415.jpg


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## Mateusz

That's good they plan this road, sooner or later Zagreb will 'eat' current A3


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## x-type

at some points it allready eats it, but anyway, most of the route is still secure. and there are more important projects instead of this one (Rijeka's wide bypass or A7 for instance)


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## krzamak

*A1 Šestanovac-Ravča U/C, by* imota 

*Part I

3.10.2008.*


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## krzamak

*A1 Šestanovac-Ravča U/C, by* imota 

*Part II

3.10.2008.*


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## krzamak

*A1 Šestanovac-Ravča U/C, by* imota 

*Part III

3.10.2008.*


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## krzamak

*A1 Šestanovac-Ravča U/C, by* imota 

*Part IV

3.10.2008.*


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## krzamak

*A5 Đakovo - Osijek U/C, by* P.C.Dolabella


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## janiss

:applause: :cheers1:


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## DinoBond007

Are there any pictures of A5 Sredanci-Đakovo???


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## x-type

yes, search through threads about Croatian motorways (included at Euroscrapers), there should be nice photos of it. for help, search dates in late autumn and winter '07 (it was opened in November)

edit: try here  here are winter photos with wet road, serch a bit more and you'll find dry photos, too


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## DinoBond007

x-type said:


> yes, search through threads about Croatian motorways (included at Euroscrapers), there should be nice photos of it. for help, search dates in late autumn and winter '07 (it was opened in November)
> 
> edit: try here  here are winter photos with wet road, serch a bit more and you'll find dry photos, too


And when are they going to open motorway between Đakovo and Osjek?


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## x-type

DinoBond007 said:


> And when are they going to open motorway between Đakovo and Osjek?


2009, probably in spring


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## eskandarany

*Wow!*

Great Motorways! They look exemplary!
I really hope to visit one day, Croatia is a beautiful country

Greetings from across the mediterranean / alexandria, egypt


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## Timon91

^^Indeed great motorways, and welcome to SSC


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## snupix

Today is the the day that Zagreb and Rijeka finally become connected with a full-profiled motorway, after 37 years. Actually, not only Zagreb and Rijeka, but also Budapest and Rijeka, bc also a few km's around the HR-H border and a new full profiled bridge is being opened today. :banana:


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## ChrisZwolle

Congratulations  So the M7 in Hungary is also completed all the way?


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## Rijeka

Yes it is!


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## jalabert84

Congratulations
I went this highway 2 months ago and same sections was opened only in half-profile, 2 weeks ago it was full profiled but I saw only section Zagreb-Oštrovica. 
I like Croatians highways so much, especially "odmorište" Ravna Gora on A6 (?) but I don´t know why Only feeling:nuts:


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## Verso

We're expecting pictures.


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## Timon91

Well, another link completed. Congrats :booze:


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## cross

*FULL FREEWAY RIJEKA-ZAGREB *

PM: Rijeka - Zagreb Freeway Fulfils 38 Year Dream 

*The last sections to be completed are from Ostrovica to Vrata (11km) and from Kujak to Vrbovsko (3km).*










The president of the Croatian Cabinet Ivo Sanader left the discussion in parliament about confidence in his Cabinet, in order to attend the opening of the full profile freeway Rijeka-Zagreb at the south side of the Tuhobic tunnel.

“We waited 38 years for the freeway from Rijeka to Zagreb, and the political force that will have the strength and money to solve the problem” said premier Sanader. He declared the full profile freeway open and added that he sees today that serving the people through politics has sense. 

Premier Sanader said that today a dream of Croatian people has been fulfilled that could not be achieved during Yugoslavia.

“Croatia was not a priority at the time, and could not lead sovereign politics but that which Belgrade dictated” said Sanader. He stressed that the road connections is an assumption for the total growth of economic activities and life in general.

*Journalists first to drive on the freeway*

The last sections of freeway to be completed were an 11 kilometre section from Ostrovica to Vrata and a three kilometre section from Kupjak to Vrbovsko.

The Rijeka – Zagreb freeway was under construction for 38 years, and its price was 661.5 million euros.

The 146 kilometre trip from Rijeka to Zagreb, with an average travelling speed, will be complete in one hour and 15 minutes, and will cost 60 kuna.

To complete the freeway, six bridges, 13 tunnels, 24 viaducts and 15 accompanying buildings were constructed.

The construction on the last two sections of freeway were completed on Monday, when the first people to drive on the full profile freeway were journalists.

http://www.javno.com/en/croatia/clanak.php?id=195132


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## DJZG

a great day for croatian highways :banana: 
but i didn't knew we can go to Budapest completely on highways... awesome 

is it possible to drive to Budapest in three hours?


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## cross




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## KHS

Finaly


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## KHS

edit


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## KHS

Verso said:


> We're expecting pictures.





P.C.Dolabella said:


>


:cheers:


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## cross

The new "Mura bridge" between Croatia and Hungary (Gorican- Letenye), 
*opened 22.th Oct. 2008.*

A4/M7 Zagreb-Budapest


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## Verso

Beautiful pictures! :cheers:


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## KHS

*Ploče*


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## KHS

ppero2 said:


>


:cheers:


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## KHS

cross said:


> Konstruktor Split
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> *Tunel Vrtlinovec, AC Zagreb-Goričan*
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:cheers:


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## Treasure

super slike


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## Zabonz

cross said:


> Konstruktor Split
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> *AC Zagreb-Split, dionica Prgomet-Dugopolje*
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## KHS

:master:


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## Tom 958

What is this? A bus terminal, maybe?


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## KHS

^^ :dunno:

I guess this is just a parking for cemetery.

Here is another picture...










link...http://www.konstruktor-split.hr/djelatnosti/Reference/OBILAZNICASPLITAIIIDIONICAIVETAPA/tabid/1693/Default.aspx


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## Timon91

Gorgeous pics! Great motorways! I'm stunned


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## H123Laci

^^ if you like them check this one: http://www.hac.hr/brosure/monografija/virtualMagazine.html


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## cross

KHS said:


> ^^ :dunno:
> 
> I guess this is just *a parking for cemetery.*


:yes: The main cemetery in Split - Lovrinac



> Here is another picture...
> 
> link...http://www.konstruktor-split.hr/djelatnosti/Reference/OBILAZNICASPLITAIIIDIONICAIVETAPA/tabid/1693/Default.aspx


Another one...


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## cross

cross said:


> GP Krk, Krk
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## dubart

cross said:


>


Could you quote without repeating photos next time, please? :cheers:


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## cross

dubart said:


> Could you quote without repeating photos next time, please? :cheers:


Sorry, but where do you see photos repeating?


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## Mateusz

When A1 to Ravca can be opened ? Somewhen this year ?


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## cross

Mateusz said:


> When A1 to Ravca can be opened ? Somewhen this year ?


Until 31st December. We hope so..


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## KHS

H123Laci said:


> ^^ if you like them check this one: http://www.hac.hr/brosure/monografija/virtualMagazine.html


This is great!!! I havent seen it before.


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## KHS

AUTOCESTA SPLIT-ZAGREB, dionica PRGOMET-DUGOPOLJE










AUTOCESTA ZAGREB-GORIČAN,dionica BREZNIČKI HUM-NOVI MAROF



















http://www.konstruktor-split.hr/Naslovna/tabid/895/Default.aspx


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## DanMs

Nice pics!! Croatian roads & highways are well maintained.

When I google map Split - Tirana it gave me directions to go through Italy. Haha!
It would be nice to go on a car tour during summer.


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## KHS

Maslenica bridges



cross said:


> Maslenički mostovi
> 
> Foto: sisko
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foto: Mount Man


:cheers:


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## Timon91

mg: What a beautiful bridges :cheers:


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## Zanovijetalo

OK, that's it! 

You are eligible to apply for the Croatian citizenship, Timon


----------



## H123Laci

CANTILEVER ERECTION OF (croatian) ARCH BRIDGES
http://www.arch-bridges.cn/conf2008/pdf/337.pdf


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## KHS

cross said:


> Zagreb - Domovinski most
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Izvor: flix.hr


:cheers:


----------



## DanMs

cool bridge and nature surrounding it surreal


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## Verso

Great bridge, and is that fog or clouds in the first two pics? It looks incredible! (but also a bit disgusting, b/c it reminds me of mildew )


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## x-type

clouds. there is no fog at that side of Velebit (except this far one typical for seaside shown at last photo)


----------



## PLH

From Wikipedia about speed limits:



> Due to legal requirements for speed measuring, the speed limits for expressways and highways are de facto 133 km/h (83 mph) and 155 km/h (96 mph), respectively.


Does it mean you get fined when more than ~25km/h + ?


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## x-type

well at motorways they will not touch you up to 150 (where speed limit is 130)


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## PLH

^^ But is it officially approved or the police just don't bother to stop those <150?


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## x-type

their good will. wait, is in PL really 130 and not a single kph over it?


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## ChrisZwolle

They have a margin in the Netherlands, somewhere between 3 km/h and 7 km/h, depending on speed. This is not some goodwill from the police, but their measurements are not 100% guaranteed correct.


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## Timon91

In the Netherlands they do it with an exceeding of 3 or 4 kph AFAIK. When the measure in a police car, and they measure an exceeding of 52 kph, they have to correct it by distracting 5% correction, so the exceeding is 49 kph. When you exceed more than 50 kph, after correcting, your licence is taken. AFAIK this is only for the A and N roads.


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## PLH

x-type said:


> wait, is in PL really 130 and not a single kph over it?


 No, in most cases it's + 20 - 25 km/h, even for speed cameras.

You must also know that as for speed limits we're a specific country, and like 90% of all cars goes 15 - 25 +, and there is always a chance of someone going way too much and he's the one to stop.


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## ChrisZwolle

I'm orientating for my holiday next year. It might be somewhere along the Croatian coast. How are waiting times before the borders of;

-> Slovenia <-> Croatia
-> Croatia <-> Bosnia (Neum only)
-> Croatia<-> Montenegro
-> Croatia <-> Hungary

All in early June, so not in the peak travel season. Are there strict controls? I drive in a cargo van, so I hope they won't strip-search my car for drugs (they did that on the Danmark - Sweden border).


----------



## PLH

^^ SLO - HR (Istria) - no more than 10 min, no strict controls


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## snupix

ChrisZwolle said:


> I'm orientating for my holiday next year. It might be somewhere along the Croatian coast. How are waiting times before the borders of;
> 
> -> Slovenia <-> Croatia
> -> Croatia <-> Bosnia (Neum only)
> -> Croatia<-> Montenegro
> -> Croatia <-> Hungary
> 
> All in early June, so not in the peak travel season. Are there strict controls? I drive in a cargo van, so I hope they won't strip-search my car for drugs (they did that on the Danmark - Sweden border).


1. Shouldn't be more than 5mn, if you avoid weekends
2. None
3. Possible queue direction Croatia, but I guess it shouldn't take too long
4. Idk, but I guess the same as Slovenia

Since it's early June, I think you won't have to wait longer anywhere.


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## DJZG

maybe avoiding Macelj crossing at SLO-CRO border cause from slovenian side there isn't a highway and queue can be pretty long even in June...


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## panda80

ChrisZwolle said:


> I'm orientating for my holiday next year. It might be somewhere along the Croatian coast. How are waiting times before the borders of;
> 
> -> Slovenia <-> Croatia
> -> Croatia <-> Bosnia (Neum only)
> -> Croatia<-> Montenegro
> -> Croatia <-> Hungary
> 
> All in early June, so not in the peak travel season. Are there strict controls? I drive in a cargo van, so I hope they won't strip-search my car for drugs (they did that on the Danmark - Sweden border).


in august at neum there was no control, we had to drive 5-10kph so border police could look at our faces, and at croatia-muntenegro border we had to wait 45min due to large ques.but in june it's posible i think to pass through that border in less than 20min.don't forget to buy montenegro vignette(10euros).


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## DJZG

^^ montenegro has vignettes? wtf... on which highways is that lol?


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## snupix

DJZG said:


> ^^ montenegro has vignettes? wtf... on which highways is that lol?


It's an eco-tax for all motor vehicles.


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## H123Laci

eco-tax?

a tax to support the local ECOnomy? :lol:


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## x-type

yeah, MNE eco-tax costs 10€ i think (i know that it is unbelievable 150€ for lorries!)
btw in June you won't have significant waiting times at border crossings. you could have jams at some main toll-stations if there is extended weekend (holiday at mon or fri, or even at tue or thu).

btw, everybody's talking about no stopping at Neum, but i had that luck few times that i had waiting time up to 30 min.

control is not strict, but you can allways run onto custom officer with bad day (what is not rare at all among custom officers worldwide )


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## KHS

ChrisZwolle said:


> How are waiting times before the border of;
> 
> -> Slovenia <-> Croatia


What border crossing exactly?


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## Timon91

I'd actually like to know that about the crossing Marsici and Crnica (sorry for forgetting those extra stripes on the s and c's :lol. That's route 201/208


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## x-type

Timon91 said:


> I'd actually like to know that about the crossing Marsici and Crnica (sorry for forgetting those extra stripes on the s and c's :lol. That's route 201/208


Črnica (and i guess slovenian is Maršiči)  that's one of 3 bc's in Istria and the least crowded (although in July and August there are also crowds)


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## Timon91

But how long are the average waiting times (in July and August)?


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## Verso

That border crossing is called Požane (Croatian side) and Sočerga (Slovenian side) respectively.



ChrisZwolle said:


> I drive in a cargo van, so I hope they won't strip-search my car for drugs (they did that on the Danmark - Sweden border).


Aren't Denmark and Sweden both in schengen?


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## PLH

Verso said:


> Aren't Denmark and Sweden both in schengen?


Yes, but random checks occur


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## Timon91

@Verso: They do traffic checks everywhere. In the end of the year, the border between the Netherlands and Belgium is very well protected because of Dutch people buying illegal fireworks in Belgium. And not only on the roads, also in the trains. When I went to Vienna in february I was with a friend (both 16 at that time) and German custom officers stripped the whole compartment, looking for drugs. Not surprising, considering that fact that many 16 year old Dutch people use drugs hno:


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## Verso

^ Timon, did they find anything?


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## Timon91

Well........























.....they didn't, I don't use drugs. They were very interested in all my stuff and it took them about 15 minutes to check my bag, my friend's bag, our jackets and the beer bag. One of the two inspected every single card of my drugs card deck, that I once won on a festival :lol:


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## RawLee

ChrisZwolle said:


> -> Croatia <-> Hungary


I dont know,its brand new...but I dont think Croatia really bothers to check vehicles coming from here,Schengen is more rigorous I think than croat requirements. The other way...well...outer Schengen border,so it can be a few minutes,maybe even up to 15min.


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## DJZG

^^ oh yes... a brand new crossing to hungary... that will be interesting to see next season...


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## Dino S

I don't know for other order crossings but at Dobovec(SLO)/Lupinjak(HR) (which is often used as a bypass for Gruškovje) I waited once 1 hour and once 1,5 hour to entry Slovenia but there was no waiting time in Slovenia because two lanes were opened, but on Croatian side was only one lane opened and one police officer!


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## x-type

Timon91 said:


> But how long are the average waiting times (in July and August)?


khm, average half an hour, bit it can happen to be up to 3 hrs


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## Timon91

^^Does this count for entering Croatia, entering Slovenia or both?


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## DJZG

^^ for that information you need to know tourist customs during summer...
major wave of tourists comes on fridays after their work week, and could extend over whole weekend... 
on the other hand, tourist that are returning back go on sundays morning...
those movings are pretty complex, and depend on lots of factors involved...
but if you look generally... jams happen mostly during weekend days no matter what direction or what border crossing...


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## ChrisZwolle

What's the timetable for the prolongation of the A1 towards Dubrovnik? Which sections will be opened when?


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## SeanT

So finally there is a motorway between the adriatic sea, Zagreb and Budapest, Fantastic :banana:A4 - M7 :cheers:


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## Timon91

DJZG said:


> ^^ for that information you need to know tourist customs during summer...
> major wave of tourists comes on fridays after their work week, and could extend over whole weekend...
> on the other hand, tourist that are returning back go on sundays morning...
> those movings are pretty complex, and depend on lots of factors involved...
> but if you look generally... jams happen mostly during weekend days no matter what direction or what border crossing...


So the best day to enter or leave Croatia is somewhere between monday and thursday?


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ I usually try not to travel on fridays or saturdays in the peak season anyway. The chance you're getting stuck in a traffic jam on those days is big.


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## Timon91

^^You're right. Two years ago it took us 13 hours to drive from Abcoude to Bad Tölz (just below Munich, 876 km), and this was on a friday.


----------



## Zanovijetalo

ChrisZwolle said:


> What's the timetable for the prolongation of the A1 towards Dubrovnik? Which sections will be opened when?












RED -40 km section Šestanovac to Ravča should be open by the end of this year. Also by that time the *expressway *from Karamatići junction to Ploče town should be finished.

LIGHT GREEN -Remaining Ravča to Ploče section is scheduled to be finished by the end of 2009 – though some highway junkies here on SSC, HR section, claim it cannot be done before 2010. 

DARK BLUE - As far as I know, there are still many disputes about this section. What I know is that the government announced the beginning of construction for the section Doli – Osojnik for the spring 2009.

Maybe I should stress out Im not really an expert on this, this is what I (think I) know.


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## ChrisZwolle

Thanks. Wikipedia states the A1 will be finished to Ploče by December 2008.


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## Timon91

Will it eventually continue all the way to Montenegro?


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## Zanovijetalo

It should continue of course, there is something called Adriatic-Ionian highway corridor or smth, Croatia- MNE – AL - Greece. Not sure about the details like timeline. I’m sure some of Cro highwayers will jump in with that info.


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ There's a vision to create an Adriatic-Ionian motorway all the way from Trieste to Greece. I don't know how far these plans are really planned in Montenegro, Albania and Greece. So far the Croatian A1 is the only real part of it which is realized.


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## Zanovijetalo

Truth, and when that A-I corridor was first mentioned, we were expecting EU to jump in with some €€€€€€€ to support it but nothing. 

Perhaps we should have been louder with our „send money whoresons!!“


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## Timon91

Don't you need to be EU-member to get lots of money?


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## ChrisZwolle

Timon91 said:


> Don't you need to be EU-member to get lots of money?


Not necessarily. I believe Kazakhstan also recieves EU funds to improve it's road network. Probably because of E-routes.

I think it's rather important that the Adriatic-Ionian corrider gets build. It saves a ferry trip on the route via Italy to Greece, and also avoids Serbia, which is sadly the least attractive nation to drive through but has the best infrastructure. The route via Romania and Bulgaria has no fast infrastructure and is pretty much a large detour around former Yugoslavia.

The A-I corridor also opens the markets of Albania and Montenegro to central and western europe


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## Zanovijetalo

Timon91 said:


> Don't you need to be EU-member to get lots of money?


Pfff semantics


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## Timon91

Ah, well 
There is definately a need for this corridor. It will provide a quicker route not only for cars, but also for trucks. Where they go via Romania and Hungary now to avoid long border waits, the corridor is a good solution. At least when the border controls get a little less strict and waiting times under an hour


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## snupix

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think it's rather important that the Adriatic-Ionian corrider gets build. It saves a ferry trip on the route via Italy to Greece, and also avoids Serbia, which is sadly the least attractive nation to drive through but has the best infrastructure.


Well, the route through Serbia and Macedonia is the most logical and fastest route to get to Greece, I would never use the ferry if I had to go to Greece unless I intend to sleep over on it (and the ferry is probably very expensive). I understand truckers that do it so they avoid the customs, but otherwise, it doesn't make sense.

The Adriatic-Ionian motorway, once finished, will definitely be the fastest and most convenient route to Greece, but it will take a lot of time to see it completely built...


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## Timon91

^^And for the countries (Croatia, Montenegro, Albania) to join the EU in order to diminish border control


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## DJZG

i'm not sure how will that highway go in montenegro... will it go around Boka Kotorska or there are plans to build a large bridge... i suppose there will be lots of protests against that bridge cause it will make traffic (and money) just passing by montenegro riviera...


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## snupix

A few pics from today...



> Novi PUO Draganić na A1:


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## snupix

snupix said:


> I par fotaka od Zagreba do Rijeke, dok nije počelo previše kišiti:


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## snupix

snupix said:


> Ovo je posve nejasno, nacrtana su otvorena tri ulaza (ili četiri?), a otvorena su samo dva?!?


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## snupix

snupix said:


> Pa malo s riječke obilaznice:


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## snupix

snupix said:


>


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## snupix

snupix said:


>


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## snupix

snupix said:


> Primjetite gdje je druga cijev:


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## snupix

snupix said:


>


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## snupix

snupix said:


>


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## snupix

snupix said:


>


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## snupix

snupix said:


>


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## Timon91

I'm Dutch and speak neither Slovenian or Croatian, so I couldn't hear :lol:


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## SpicyMcHaggis

--------


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## Timon91

For me, it all sounds the same :lol:


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## Rijeka

^^ Don't worry, there are many Croatian dialects even we don't understand :lol:

If you want to see the toll prices, check at www.hac.hr. For your information, 1 € = cca 7,30 kuna. Example: Rijeka - Zagreb = 60 kn. Not quite cheap I would say, especially compared to the Netherlands :lol:


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## RS.ban

Verso said:


> Yeah, but Cyrillic is more important, more "Serbian".


is it?
aren´t you little smart bee!


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## Verso

RS.ban said:


> is it?


Isn't it? If it wasn't more "Serbian", you wouldn't have solely Cyrillic signs in Srpska until recently, would you?



ivan_ri said:


> i know now. but it isn't that different from slovenian, is it? it's an honest mistake :cheers:


In Slovenian it wouldn't be "platimo svima pijačo", but "plačamo vsem pijačo".


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## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> Do we have pics of the Zagreb - Varazdin route?


i had made a report from Zagreb to Ludbreg, but it was 2 years ago and those threads are gone


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## Verso

^^ Only one of those old threads is gone (I noticed that recently).


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## x-type

yeah, and there was my report RIP


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## SpicyMcHaggis

edit


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## Verso

^^ Yeah, it could've been them too.  But saying that's not Croatian, but Slovenian, is still funny.


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## DJZG

lol... i barely understand that... weird sentence :lol: 
oh well, 'pijacha' everyone knows


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## RS.ban

Verso said:


> Isn't it? If it wasn't more "Serbian", you wouldn't have solely Cyrillic signs in Srpska until recently, would you?


well ppl in serbia r different


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## Verso

Ok, then they should have Бања Лука.


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## ivan_ri

I think that you would be satisfied with Љубљана more than anything...


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## Verso

ivan_ri said:


> I think that you would be satisfied with Љубљана more than anything...


Absolutely! In Belgrade.


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## RS.ban

Palance said:


> Indeed. Now I am still waiting for a new series of the A3 east of Slavonski Brod to Lipovac. The last time I was there was in 2000: Only Lipovac on the signs and no traffic at all on the eastern part of the road (which was no motorway by then). A bit Twilight Zone


here are some pics from that motorway 

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=17904118&postcount=955


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## P.C.Dolabella

Two new picks of the A3 in Spacva oak wood ("famous Slavonian Oak") near Lipovac, taken last weekend
:cheers:


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## Timon91

If you'd ask me where this would be, I guess I would have said it to be the A15 in Germany. Reflectors are the same, as is the crashbarrier. A German motorway usually also has a crashbarrier on the right side of the road, but still.


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## Verso

We used to have furniture made of Slavonian oak. :cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

The A3 seems quite boring to me compared to the A1!


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## Timon91

You can't have a spectacular coast in the inlands, Chris


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## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> The A3 seems quite boring to me compared to the A1!


and A1 is boring comparing to A6 actually. i told you sooner that A3 has only 1 larger bridge across river Sava at Zagreb bypass long 1060 m (and nothing special actually) and it has one smaller viaduct across railroad near Novska (less than 200 m long). other things are just overpasses and small bridges across small rivers or streams. ok, intersection with A5 is really nice (also with A1, A2 and A4 at ZG bypass), but that's not actually nothing special  i have also heard that A3 has some "artificial" made curves just to break monotony, and really it mostly consists of large curves with huge radius.


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## ChrisZwolle

We call that "Polderblindness" in the Netherlands. Long straight roads with monotonous landscape causing people to fall asleep or not really paying attention anymore, staring in the distance without really noticing traffic anymore. Can cause head-on collisions.


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## Timon91

ChrisZwolle said:


> We call that "Polderblindness" in the Netherlands. Long straight roads with monotonous landscape causing people to fall asleep or not really paying attention anymore, staring in the distance without really noticing traffic anymore. Can cause head-on collisions.












There are warnings to warn drivers to stop often enough and to stop when feeling tired.


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## x-type

omg, this is a copy of A3!^^


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## Timon91

Nope: different crashbarriers 

This is the A7 in the North-Holland province, the Netherlands


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## x-type

ok, i'm not Radi, so **** the crashbarriers


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## SpicyMcHaggis

dead link


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## Timon91

Holy shit....... Very lucky


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## ChrisZwolle

Wow that's pretty serious. In my opinion, the contractor is 100% responsible for this accident. This should never happened, if they want to do stuff that low, they should 1) close the entire Autocesta or close at least the right lane too and let traffic flow across the shoulder.


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## x-type

of course they are responsible! working area was not insured properly. but it's an old story allready, i think that tunnel Mala Kapela wasn't opened yet when it happened, or it was opened freshly. interesting how media didn't pay too much attention on that accident (And they simply love things like that). i saw it for the first time at youtube, not at tv


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## Mateusz

Well A3 used to be most important axe in Yugoslavia  When I saw first time pics from bridge across Sava in Zagreb, I though that their motorways must be really shit hno: I hope they put some new asphalt there


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## x-type

they have  that was the last crappy part on HR motorways. and it was rally crappy. i remember that 1,5 years ago i wanted to take photos of it, and when i came there, construction site was allready opened, so i couldn't make photos for history. geeez, it was really bumpy bridge!


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## Palance

The A3 was only a very busy 2-lane road (roadnr. 1) in the Yugoslav days, the "Autoput Bratstvo i Jedinstvo" (motorway of brotherhood and unity). I remember the road as dangerous, very many accidents happened there. Fortunately the situation is much better now.


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## RS.ban

^^Not true
The section between Zagreb and Sl. Brod existed in YU


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## Palance

You are right about that. But I can even remember that even there was no motorway


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## RS.ban

So how old are you 60


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## x-type

true, first larger section of full profile at A3 was opened ages ago, in 1980.
here is revuew of opening dates if somebody's interested:

1979 - Jankomir - Lučko (part of southwestern ZG bypass between todays A2 and A1) 5,85 km
1980 - Ivanja Reka (ZG east) - Lipovljani 76,52 km
1981 - Lučko - Ivanja Reka (rest of ZG bypass then) 22,15 km
1985 - Lipovljani - Okučani (35,82 km)
1986 - Okučani - Prvča (i have never heard for Prvča frankly) 7,50 km
1988 - Prvča - Brodski Stupnik 40,56 km (there was toll barrier in Brodski Stupnik up to 2003)
1989 - Brodski Stupnik - Slavonski Brod west 8,80 km
1991 - Slavonski Brod west - Slavonski Brod east 11,40 km
1996 - Slavonski Brod east - Oprisavci 11,90 km
1999 - Oprisavci - Velika Kopanica 16,90 km (i thought that motorway was ending in Oprisavci much longer period than only 3 years)
2000 - Jankomir - Bregana 13,67 km (ZG - SLO motorway!)
2003 - Velika Kopanica - Županja 25,95 km
2006 - Županja - Bajakovo 30,42 km

i must add that completely motorway (except the newest sections built after 1999) passed detailed reconstruction between 2001 and 2006 (or something like that) because it was ruined and not maintained since 1990. it was in really bad condition, you could easily see traces of tanks and grenades' holes


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## Verso

x-type said:


> !


?


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## x-type

due to some soul curators, i am deeply appologizing and begging our prime minister and police not to arrest me because i am regreting for what i have written


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## Verso

x-type said:


> we are turning into China. no no, we are turning into Turkmenistan! or Saudi Arabia! internet will be banned here!


See you in some more democratic times. :wave:  Now *I*'ll have to take photos of Croatian motorways. hno:


J/k, let's get back on topic. :cheers:


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## Zabonz

x-type said:


> we are turning into China. no no, we are turning into Turkmenistan! or Saudi Arabia! internet will be banned here!


Internet will not be banned in croatia, neither the facebook. So please stop bashing Croatia here and lie! Please! You can try to be funny in this way in skybar or DLM but in this subsection there should be serious discoussions. Someone could misinterpret your jokes!


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## Zanovijetalo

Good post, Zabonz


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## Timon91

So, how did the demonstrations go?


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## christos-greece

Beautiful motorways


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## cross

A9 - Istrian Y (Kanfanar - Pula)



Vace said:


> Ajde Verso, da te spasim evo mala ekskluziva!!
> 
> Slike s miniranja na Ipsilonu:
> 
> *Veliko hvala za slike ekipi s ipsilona (znat će oni)*:cheers:
> 
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> :banana: :banana: :banana: :cheers: :cheers:


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## pijanec

Anyone know what the speed limit will be on extended Istrian Y? I am asking because some modern Croatian motorways have low speed limits.


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## x-type

130. low speed limits are only at mountainous sections (110 km/h) and 80 km/h at large descents at A1 (between tunnel Sveti Rok and Maslenica where difference is about 500 m in some 15 km) and at A6 (approaching Rijeka where difference is about 200 m in 4 km)


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## pijanec

Whenever I drove from Karlovac to Bosiljevo there were always 100 km/h speed limit although the road was empty. The road is good enough for 130.

I remember that at first even A2 from Zaprešič to Zagreb had 110 km/h limit.


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## snupix

pijanec said:


> Whenever I drove from Karlovac to Bosiljevo there were always 100 km/h speed limit although the road was empty. The road is good enough for 130.
> 
> I remember that at first even A2 from Zaprešič to Zagreb had 110 km/h limit.


I don't understand that either, but I guess it's because of the gradient. Nowhere from Bosiljevo (A1-A6 jcn) to Rijeka speed limit exceeds 110 km/h.


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## x-type

@pijanec: you are wrong. you have 100 km/h for 2,5 km after Karlovac at viaduct Drežnik, 2-3 km near tunnel Sveti Marko (tunnel + couple of viaducts) and in knot Bosiljevo. other is 130. at A6 you mostly have 110 speed limit because it is mountanious. 
A2 has 110 km/h also at montanious part between Krapina and Trakošćan (and it has 100 km/h limits in all exits)


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## X236K

Istrian "Y" being extended? How long is it going to take?


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## x-type

several years. they are beginning from Pula to north. probably B9 will become A9 sooner than B8 A8. construction is divided into 2 phases - 2A and 2B (phase 1 was construction of expressway). 
phase 2A: 27,6 km of A9 (Pula - Kanfanar (knot with B8)), 49,2 km Kanfanar - Umag (except viaducts Limska Draga and Mirna) and 18 km of A8 Kanfanar - Rogovići (Pazin south). also, in this phase Pula will get better new bypass, new 1,5 km long road will be built from exit Umag to border crossings Kaštel and Plovanija and B8 will get 3rd lane in whole lenght from Matulji (Rijeka) to tunnel Učka (it currently exists at only 2 km before tunnel).
phase 2B: Rogovići (Pazin) - tunnel Učka - Matulji (Rijeka) with second tube of tunnel Učka, parallel viaducts Mirna and Limska Draga.

so, that's official plan.
phase 2B:


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## X236K

^^ so no 2nd viaduct of Mirna on the way..? Is 2nd Učka really needed?


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## keber

From 2019 all longer tunnels in EU (more than 1 km length) will need some sort of evacuation sytem, be it as service tube or another traffic tube. Učka has neither and will need one of these.


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## x-type

X236K said:


> ^^ so no 2nd viaduct of Mirna on the way..? Is 2nd Učka really needed?


personally i'm worried about the speed of upgrading construction and 2013 seems optimistic to me. maybe this phase 2A will be completed up to 2013.


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## X236K

Luckily, the planners were clever enough and prepared the road for extension.. otherwise it would take much longer. They've just started, right? I had not seen any activities over there in August...


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## H123Laci

x-type said:


> so, that's official plan.


thats very wise. 
expensive objects are on the end of the schedule... :cheers:

_unfortunately we are not so wise, we are building too large capacites for low traffic volumes (full profile danube bridge at dunaújváros for 6.000 AADT, and full profile M6 between dunaújváros and pécs for 4-5.000 AADT)_

only one thing seems to me not so wise: 
the base of the 2nd half of the Y is not prepared, so they have to prepare it now with explosions significantly disturbing the traffic...


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## x-type

i think that everything except B8 from Rijeka to Pazin is prepared. that's probably why that section will be built after prepared one. and that part is the most complicated. between Rijeka and tunnel Učka terrain is very hared and there will be completely new motorway in future not following existing route, and between tunnel Učka and Pazin there are about 8-9 viaducts.
activities on widenning have started last month so you coudln't see it in august 

i don't find it wise because they should have built full profiled motorway at least from Kanfanar to Pula. upgrading is horrible thing.


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## H123Laci

x-type said:


> ...and B8 will get 3rd lane in whole lenght from Matulji (Rijeka) to tunnel Učka (it currently exists at only 2 km before tunnel).


what kind of 3rd lane?

wont it be widened by doubling it, like the Y?

and what about the new alignment which connects the A8 to A7 at Jusici?


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## H123Laci

x-type said:


> i don't find it wise because they should have built full profiled motorway at least from Kanfanar to Pula. upgrading is horrible thing.


only when it is not prepared enough...

if the base is prepared they only have to lay asphalt and build overpasses, viaducts and bridges which disturbs the traffic only a little bit...


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## x-type

H123Laci said:


> what kind of 3rd lane?
> 
> wont it be widened by doubling it, like the Y?
> 
> and what about the new alignment which connects the A8 to A7 at Jusici?



no, i think it will be 2+1 only (popular road of death  ) because in future will be built completely new route, that's answer to your second question about connecting A8 and A7 in Jušići. i think that it could go parallely with secong tube at Učka, or right after it


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## Skyprince

Truly first-rate motorways in Croatia.

I got the impression that highways in Croatia, Hungary, Poland and many other Eastern European countries are "darkly" tarred.


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## PLH

Skyprince said:


> "darkly" tarred.


The impression might come from the fact that they are in most cases new and asphalt hasn'y faded yet.



Skyprince said:


> many other Eastern European countries


Write it once again and I'll....


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## Verso

^^ West of the center is eastern. You're so ignorant, PLH.


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## x-type

for my friends from Spain everything east from Germany, Austria and Italy is Eastern Europe


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## pijanec

snupix said:


> I don't understand that either, but I guess it's because of the gradient. Nowhere from Bosiljevo (A1-A6 jcn) to Rijeka speed limit exceeds 110 km/h.


Yes. 110 km/h speed limit is pain in the ass. They made such a nice modern motorway out of old crappy road but they raise speed limit only by 10 km/h. :bash:


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## panda80

i think 110km/h is an optimum speed for safety on mountainous motorways.also is very economic.for example i made a trip to pitesti a month ago on romanian a1(aprox 100km) with an opel corsa.he drove 140-150km/h and average fuel consumption was 12l/100km.when we return i drove 100-110km/h with an average fuel consumption of 6l/100km.time difference was just 15minutes.so practicly if u drive 100-110km/h instead of 140-150km/h u are paid with 6euro/15min of sitting on your car chair.it means 24euro/h payment for just sitting on a chair.i am sure that u can't find any manager that will pay u 24euro/h just for just sitting.or if u find one please announce me very fast.:lol:
and don't forget the lower maintenance cost for your car.also if u are in a hurry i think u can drive 120 and you won't get fined.


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## panda80

pijanec said:


> Yes. 110 km/h speed limit is pain in the ass. They made such a nice modern motorway out of old crappy road but they raise speed limit only by 10 km/h. :bash:


yes, but don't forget that on a normal road speed limits are variable(villages, sharp curves) so you couldn't drive 100km/h all the time.however on a motorway u can keep a constant 110.the time economy on a motorway is mainly because of constant driving at speed limits and not because exceeding these speed limits.


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## x-type

you are right. but irritating things are straight parts of those mountanious motorways. for example, at A4 in Croatia around Novi Marof there is 4 km straight part where 110 km/h is really stupid. and they didn't put 130 of course.


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## pijanec

@panda80: old road was half-motorway, so no villages and sharp curves. And even have 130 km/h limit near Rijeka where motorway was already completed if I remember correctly.

@x-type: Yeah, I know that straight section around Novi Marof. I never drive 110 there. I think A4 is the worst Croatian motorway.


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## panda80

pijanec said:


> @panda80: old road was half-motorway, so no villages and sharp curves. And even have 130 km/h limit near Rijeka where motorway was already completed if I remember correctly.


i thought you were talking about national road 12, parallel with the motorway.


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## x-type

panda80 said:


> i thought you were talking about national road 12, parallel with the motorway.


parallel road with A6 is D3


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## panda80

x-type said:


> parallel road with A6 is D3


sorry...has it changed in the last years?on my de agostini road atlas from 2005 is national road 12.


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## x-type

panda80 said:


> sorry...has it changed in the last years?on my de agostini road atlas from 2005 is national road 12.


it used to be road 12 in yugoslav times. Croatia got new road numbers soon after getting independence. Goričan - Varaždin - Novi Marof - Zagreb - Karlovac - Delnice - Rijeka - Pazin - Pula got number D3. but as we didn't have A numbers till 2001, it became messy. why? because opening new sections of motorways (A4; A1 and A6) meant moving D3 from state road to newly opened motorway. so when D3 would move to new motorway section, old road would get Ž number (county road, what is lower degree than D road (state road)). when A numbers appeared, moving D roads to motorways was stopped, but they havn't got back where they belong. and now we have a mess: instead of D3 was road parallel to A4, A1 and A6, it is inconsistant. but generally it should be parallel to motorway. i hope they will change it back.


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## dubart

x-type said:


> it used to be road 12 in yugoslav times. Croatia got new road numbers soon after getting independence. Goričan - Varaždin - Novi Marof - Zagreb - Karlovac - Delnice - Rijeka - Pazin - Pula got number D3. but as we didn't have A numbers till 2001, it became messy. why? because opening new sections of motorways (A4; A1 and A6) meant moving D3 from state road to newly opened motorway. so when D3 would move to new motorway section, old road would get Ž number (county road, what is lower degree than D road (state road)). when A numbers appeared, moving D roads to motorways was stopped, but they havn't got back where they belong. and now we have a mess: instead of D3 was road parallel to A4, A1 and A6, it is inconsistant. but generally it should be parallel to motorway. i hope they will change it back.


:nuts: Wow! This gave me a headache


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## x-type

me too. who wants to understand, read slowly and make notes


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## Verso

I also sometimes write "paranoically" like Radi.


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## x-type

oh you fucking asshole idiots, you don't know what good motorway is, your poor slovene and croat motorways have different color of stopping lame, look at struma motorway it has black stopping lame as it was 3 years ago when it was paved. and it has nice shinny crashbarriers and not ugly croat A type **** you idiots, we don't get EU money for building struma further because EU is affraid that Bulgaria could have the most beatifull motorway in the world


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## Timon91

You forgot to use "whoreson"


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## x-type

whoresons. including you, timon. you are also one of them with your ugly rusty crashbarriers at your poor netherlands motorways


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## Verso

Chew and shut up.


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## Timon91

x-type said:


> whoresons. including you, timon. you are also one of them with your ugly rusty crashbarriers at your poor netherlands motorways


Wrong again. Radi only uses comma's as punctuation. Go ahead and learn 

The content of that sentence is quite true, btw :lol:


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## x-type

Timon91 said:


> Wrong again. Radi only uses comma's as punctuation. Go ahead and learn
> 
> The content of that sentence is quite true, btw :lol:


**** you, you don't know anything, look at those shiny crashbarriers at greek struma, at bulgarian they are even more shiny you whoresons you don't know anything


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## Timon91

Very good! Your sentence makes me miss Radi


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## x-type

ok, enough now, i'll be called a spammer again


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## dubart

This Struma saga is actually working, in my case - if I ever drive through BG (which is, unfortunately, very unlikely), I will definately try not to miss that supergrand motorway. :lol:


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## Timon91

I think that I'd take a motorway, and thus avoid Struma  oke:




Ok, there are no motorways around, but still :lol:


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## dubart

^^ :lol::lol:


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## Verso

cross said:


> Izvor: http://www.vrbovec.hr/clanak.aspx?id=387


:cheers:


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## Timon91

Those barriers are unbelievably shiny


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## ChrisZwolle

Is that, how do you call it, an Hitra Cesta or something?


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## Verso

More like 'brza cesta' in Croatian.


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## x-type

let me explain confusion about that road's numbers. it is allways easier with picture:
blue - existing expressway (the one from those photos)
blue dashed - future expressway in direction Križevci and Koprivnica
red dashed - future expressway to Bjelovar and Virovitica
purple - road D41 Zagreb - Dugo Selo - Vrbovec- Križevci - Koprivnica - bc Gola/Berzence (H)
orange - road D28 Vrbovec - Bjelovar - Veliki Zdenci
green - A4

expressway firstly got name D28 (it didn't get A or B number because it is not under HAC nor other concessions). but obviously (i also haven't noticed it sooner) in direction to Zagreb it is signed as D28 (in direction Bjelovar it is signed as D41). and real D41 and D28 are those purple and orange roads. so, a mess. i really hope that it will get numbers B13 and B14 soon (B13 should be built part and planned to Koprivnica, so blue, and B14 should be red dashed, so direction Bjelovar, just to avoid TOTSO (intersection is allready built)). but HC (Croatian roads, state's firm for roads) doesn't communicate too much with HAC (Croatian motorways) so they didn't give B numbers to it hno:
and there are rumours that red dashed part to Bjelovar could be built as full profiled motorway.


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## x-type

and here is forgotten pic


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## pijanec

Why is new road so far away from Vrbovec?


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## x-type

4,5 km from each of the exits to city centre. it's not that far


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## pijanec

My opinion is Croatia is building their motorways too far away from cities.


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## Rijeka

^^ I agree. Zadar and Split are obvious examples.


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## panda80

Rijeka said:


> ^^ I agree. Zadar and Split are obvious examples.


i think the optimum distance between a city and motorway is 20km if there is a good road(2+2) that links the city with motorway.thus transit traffic is moved away from the proximity of the city and pollution in the city is reduced.split and zadar have really good roads connecting them with motorway and the motorway was easier and less costly to build where it is now.also u let space for the city to expand in the future.


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## pijanec

^^Majority of cities won't expand that much as population is shrinking. Also, city population and city's economy will slowly move near the motorway anyway. In Slovenia we are building motorways quite close to cities and I don't see any problems with that.


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## jpeter

Can somebody post me a picture from Speed Limits in Croatia? Thanks


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## KHS

panda80 said:


> i think the optimum distance between a city and motorway is 20km if there is a good road(2+2) that links the city with motorway.thus transit traffic is moved away from the proximity of the city and pollution in the city is reduced.split and zadar have really good roads connecting them with motorway and the motorway was easier and less costly to build where it is now.also u let space for the city to expand in the future.


I agree.


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## x-type

motorways could not be closer to Zadar because it would extend trip to Split way too much. the only problem which i see is connection road in zadar which is good only if you are going in direction Split, and not in Zagreb because it extends trip


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## pijanec

panda80 said:


> i think the optimum distance between a city and motorway is 20km if there is a good road(2+2) that links the city with motorway.thus transit traffic is moved away from the proximity of the city and pollution in the city is reduced.


It reduces the pollution in cities, but overall pollution will rise because every user has to made additional, for example, 15 km in one direction to get on/from motorway.

In the end, damage is double. Companies will slowly move away from city and continue their business near motorways. Then, people will follow. So they need space to move and cause more environmental damage.


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## Mateusz

Why no B prefix ? ^^


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## KHS

*Rijeka bypass*



gorgoroth said:


> Najnovije slike s riječke zaobilaznice


:cheers:


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## Beg

^^ WOW! :applause:


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## Verso

Today they opened 40 km of A1 motorway Šestanovac - Ravča (between Split and Dubrovnik) and 4 km of a 4-lane expressway to the port of Ploče. I hardly found anything in Croatian media, except Vjesnik, I don't have any pics either.


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## RS.ban

i have watched report about it in croatian TV


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## DJZG

they said approaching roads aren't made cause of some land or was i misunderstood that on HRT?


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## GreenAlbanian

*Bridge over river Krka near Šibenik in middle Dalmatia!*


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## GreenAlbanian

*This one I took somewhere on A1 (Zagreb - Split) very nearby Split*


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## RS.ban

DJZG said:


> they said approaching roads aren't made cause of some land or was i misunderstood that on HRT?


i think i have heard the same thing


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## housemaster

Well, last summer I made all the way down to Makarska exit on A1, feel impressed. Now I can see there is another part ready with the connection to Ploce. Question is how are the futher works on A1 going (if at all) towards Dubrovnik? And when is this road due to be ready?

Greetz


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## Timon91

AFAIK they only started with the big bridge to the Dubrovnik peninsula, but that's all.


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## KHS

Green - new section opened yesterday
Yellow - U/C











Follow this link and take a look at brochures on the bottom of the page... http://www.mmpi.hr/default.aspx?id=5412


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## smokiboy

I have not heard if there was a final decision; will the Spilt - Dubrovnik motorway continue inland or will it detour through Pelješac?


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## x-type

we'll see after next elections


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## snupix

Verso said:


> Today they opened 40 km of A1 motorway Šestanovac - Ravča (between Split and Dubrovnik) and 4 km of a 4-lane expressway to the port of Ploče. I hardly found anything in Croatian media, except Vjesnik, I don't have any pics either.


By: zvo



zvo said:


> Ipak ova novootvorena dioinca zaslužuje da je se prikaže.
> Slike su današnje, Split-Ravča.
> 
> Ulaz Dugopolje
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## Verso

^^ Beautiful motorway.  I've read it's rather bad though. I hope they won't build a low-budget motorway to Dubrovnik/Montenegro.


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## H123Laci

snupix said:


>


Dubrovnik is quite far away yet... :nuts:

does the ploce-dubrovnik section recquire a full profile?

how much is the estimated traffic volume on that section?


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## Timon91

It's the Adriatic-Ionian motorway (or sth like that), so it would be nice if it would be 100% motorway, or at least dual carriageway without any traffic lights.


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## x-type

H123Laci said:


> Dubrovnik is quite far away yet... :nuts:


actually the sign is absolutely wrong. Ravča - Dubrovnik is 135 km. add those 29 and you get some 20 km minus


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## ChrisZwolle

Timon91 said:


> It's the Adriatic-Ionian motorway (or sth like that), so it would be nice if it would be 100% motorway, or at least dual carriageway without any traffic lights.


I agree, if the region enters Schengen or becomes more and more a touristic spot, a motorway with 2x2 lanes isn't that crazy at all. Especially the Dubrovnik region and Montenegro have great tourism potential, and you don't want every town along the Jadranska Magistrala to be clogged during the summer period. Better do it now and good than having to wait several years due to procedures and NIMBY's when it's really needed.


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## x-type

unfortunately, i'm affraid that A1 will stop near Ploče and there will enter into B&H. i hope i am wrong, but they have changed route and it smells like that. we'll see.


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## Verso

^^ The motorway in BIH will be opened 50 years after Rijeka - Trieste.


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## keber

>


It looks like, that second bridge will be much different than first one. Is it going to be from steel?


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## x-type

Verso said:


> ^^ The motorway in BIH will be opened 50 years after Rijeka - Trieste.


year more or less - you're right


keber said:


> It looks like, that second bridge will be much different than first one. Is it going to be from steel?


i think it will be the same. it won't be steel definitely, and those 2 carriers which seem to make difference from old one - i think it's just temporary stuff helping while it is u/c. it would be ugly if it would be different. and there is too deep canyon, it must have large span as old one.


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## H123Laci

ChrisZwolle said:


> I agree, if the region enters Schengen or becomes more and more a touristic spot, a motorway with 2x2 lanes isn't that crazy at all. Especially the Dubrovnik region and Montenegro have great tourism potential, and you don't want every town along the Jadranska Magistrala to be clogged during the summer period. Better do it now and good than having to wait several years due to procedures and NIMBY's when it's really needed.


ok, but when is it better to divide the construction into 2 phases: at first a half profile, and some years later the 2nd half?

e.g.: was it clever to build the istrian Y in 2 phases?

IMO it is better to build half profile when the estimated traffic volume is under 12-15.000 in 5 years perspective...

this way the spared money (some 30% of the full profile) can be used for another important projects (that is: 50% more roads) and you wont have roads with overcapacity...

ofcourse when you have more than enough money and building capacity you need no such "spend your money carefully" games...


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## Timon91

In Poland they also make most quiet S-roads half profile, but if they want to they can lay the other half immediately. Most viaducts have room for the second half and the only big things to be constructed are a few river bridges. However, the terrain is relatively easy to deal with: flat (especially northern Poland). Croatia isn't flat at all, so when making high bridges and viaducts you'd already have to build the one for the second half as well. When you've done that, the full profile motorway is almost finished already :lol:


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## x-type

well, if they make an expressway to Dubrovnik instead of motorway, it will still have 4 lanes (with greenery) and denivelated exits so it will still be good road not to complain about. they definitely won't build something 1+1


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## H123Laci

Timon91 said:


> Croatia isn't flat at all, so when making high bridges and viaducts you'd already have to build the one for the second half as well. When you've done that, the full profile motorway is almost finished already :lol:


nope.
look at the istrian Y or the A1/A6 between karlovac and rijeka: overpasses above the motorway are for 2x2 full profile, but nothing else.

nor the earthworks, neither the objects of the motorway (nor the little bridges neither the jumbo viaducts and tunnels...)

all of them are built/done in the 2nd phase... 

but in some cases you are right: 
it is better to build in one phase some objects, e.g. arch bridges above gorges, or large cablestayed, or suspension bridges above rivers...


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## KHS

NikolaZGB said:


> *Dalmatina 5.1.2009.*
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:cheers:


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## Timon91

These are some Timon-astonishing pics 

By the way, what is "versolina" doing in the tags? :lol:


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## Verso

Versolina is that 2-lane road with the motorway sign. In the local thread there's a tag "Verso is a Croat"; quite funny.  Lovely winter pics!


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## Rijeka

look at the istrian Y or the A1/A6 between karlovac and rijeka: overpasses above the motorway are for 2x2 full profile, but nothing else.


The A1/A6 between Karlovac and Rijeka is completely finished in ful profile a month (or so) ago.
As for the the Istrian Y, you're right, but its upgrade is U/C, at least in some (important) parts. I don't know when it will be finished though.


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## dubart

Verso said:


> there's a tag "Verso is a Croat"; quite funny.


:lol: 
Probably because your Croatian is perfect :cheers:


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## Verso

:bowtie: It's not bad.


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## Timon91

It really doesn't differ that much from Slovenian, does it?


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## Verso

Well, Croats don't speak Slovenian, often they don't even understand much of it, and most Slovenes speak a broken Croatian, so they are more and more apart since the collapse of Yugoslavia.


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## bubach_hlubach

Timon91 said:


> It really doesn't differ that much from Slovenian, does it?


I guess not, since Slovenes can learn it fast 

*Welcome*

"Dobro" means well, good. "Dosli" is come. 

Croatian - Dobrodošli 
Bosnian - Dobrodošli 
Slovenian - Dobrodošli 
Serbian - Dobrodošli

 :cheers:


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## paF4uko

But there are also a lot of differences like the formation of the future tense and some words, for example *tudi (slo) = također (cro)* (means _also_, _too_).

Now on topic:

Why this _cestarina_ have such strange configuration and where it is located?


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## Palance

Verso said:


> Well, Croats don't speak Slovenian, often they don't even understand much of it, and most Slovenes speak a broken Croatian, so they are more and more apart since the collapse of Yugoslavia.


I do understand Slovenian, but only when its spoken slowly and not very fast. I can read and understand some signs, but itstill is a difficult language to learn. It's a pity (for me...) that Croatian is less spoken in Slovenia, although when I speak Croatian and someone speaks Slovene with me, we can understand each other.

The difference between Slovene and Croatian is like Dutch and German: Same family, some words are the same, some almost the same, some totally different, some pronnouncations differ and the grammar differs. But Dutch and German people can understand each other when spoken slowly and clearly.


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## dubart

Verso said:


> Well, Croats don't speak Slovenian


 Some of us work for Slovenian companies, so we understand a lot more


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## SpicyMcHaggis

edit


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## keber

> *Galerija:*


That (between Gospić and Udbina exits) is the most boring part of A1 motorway to drive in my experience inspite of magnificent Velebit mountains on horizont. Too smooth with no significant features near motorway.


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## Verso

delete


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## x-type

paF4uko said:


> Now on topic:
> 
> Why this _cestarina_ have such strange configuration and where it is located?


it is abandoned toll station Šestanovac (it was temporary because motorway used to end here), waits to be dismantled

@keber: i agree. for me it is even more boring than A3


----------



## Satan Of Panonia

I try to drive the A1 from A to Z at least once a year.
I F love it.


----------



## enschede-er

Some news about the motorway A5?? (part of the corridor 5c)


----------



## x-type

enschede-er said:


> Some news about the motorway A5?? (part of the corridor 5c)


wait April


----------



## KHS

*A6 Rijeka-Zagreb 25.01.2009.*



ivan_ri said:


>


:cheers:


----------



## KHS

*A6 Rijeka-Zagreb 25.01.2009.*



ivan_ri said:


> evo par fotki sa A6 od jucer


:cheers:


----------



## KHS

*A6 Rijeka-Zagreb 25.01.2009.*



ivan_ri said:


>


:cheers:


----------



## KHS

*A6 Rijeka-Zagreb 25.01.2009.*



ivan_ri said:


>


:cheers:


----------



## Timon91

Great pictures, I wish we had some snow over here hno:


----------



## Majestic

Awesome pictures. Superb road. :drool:


One thing leaves me puzzled though. What kind of traffic lights does this sign refer to? Can those overhead lane signs be classified so?


----------



## BND

^^ I think it refers to those green arrows (or red X's) over the tunnel. It actually functions as a traffic light since when they are red you mustn't enter the tunnel.


----------



## pijanec

I always wonder in Croatia as it happens frequently ... which sign should we *legally* obey as the same strech have two different speed limits posted - 80 km/h or 100 km/h speed limit?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

If there is an accident in the tunnel, they can stop the traffic before the tunnel, so you won't get stuck inside the tunnel.


----------



## x-type

BND said:


> ^^ I think it refers to those green arrows (or red X's) over the tunnel. It actually functions as a traffic light since when they are red you mustn't enter the tunnel.


no, at entrance to tunnel you allways have classic traffic lights (red-orange-green) and there should be befor tunnels (about 100 m, too) so it's refering to those traffic lights. unneccessary if you ask me.



pijanec said:


> I always wonder in Croatia as it happens frequently ... which sign should we *legally* obey as the same strech have two different speed limits posted - 80 km/h or 100 km/h speed limit?


dynamic signalization allways have priority, not only in HR but everywhere


----------



## pijanec

x-type said:


> dynamic signalization allways have priority, not only in HR but everywhere


By most laws dynamic signalization legally equals fixed signalization that's why dynamic one is placed after the fixed traffic signs to achieve legally correct placement, e.g you have a dynamic traffic sign with 100 km/h speed limit and after 300 meters fixed sign with 130 km/h, speed limit is normally 130 km/h after fixed sign. 

I drove all across Europe many times and Croatian dynamic signalization still puzzles me. Previous month I drove from Zaprešić to Krapina and dynamic sign on motorway in middle of nowhere was showing 40 km/h :nuts::nuts: speed limit (road was empty as always, good visibility and nothing wrong with it). As usual limit was never canceled and legally I should have wait till next interchange.


----------



## zac1bel2

Hi, please do you know if it's possible and easy to connect from the E65 to the new A1 (at Ravca or anywhere appropriate). We are planning to drive from Dubrovnik to Split. Can't seem to find this on any map.

Thank you.


----------



## Motorway Plans

GOOD MOTORWAYS IN CROATIA


----------



## Motorway Plans

*DEAR ADMIN*

Dear Admin!

How can I enable the attach picture directly into my post feature?


----------



## Motorway Plans

I like your "green bridge" the most from the previous posts...

It is very ingenious and dynamic design.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Motorway Plans said:


> Dear Admin!
> 
> How can I enable the attach picture directly into my post feature?


Well, I'm not an admin, but here's how it works:

upload your picture to a webserver (like www.imageshack.us or www.tinypic.com ) Then paste the code with the IMG tags here. 

Happy foruming.


----------



## zac1bel2

KHS said:


> Green - new section opened yesterday
> Yellow - U/C
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Follow this link and take a look at brochures on the bottom of the page... http://www.mmpi.hr/default.aspx?id=5412


Hi there, does anyone know if there is an easy way to connect from the coastal (Dubrovnik -Split D8/ E65) road to the new A1 motorway at Ravca ? We're trying to cut down driving time from Dubrovnik to Split and want to experience the new motorway.

Grateful for any advice. Many thanks.


----------



## janiss

Kako napreduje riječka zaobilaznica? Kad je planiran kraj radova?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ English please.


----------



## Robosteve

Google Translate turns that into:

How's riječka roundabout? When the scheduled end of work?


----------



## dubart

Robosteve said:


> Google Translate turns that into:
> 
> How's riječka roundabout? When the scheduled end of work?


^^ Funny Google. 

He wants some info on Rijeka bypass (progress).


----------



## Mateusz

So what will me the number of road (motorway ?) between Ploce and Ceveljusa ?


----------



## x-type

zac1bel2 said:


> Hi there, does anyone know if there is an easy way to connect from the coastal (Dubrovnik -Split D8/ E65) road to the new A1 motorway at Ravca ? We're trying to cut down driving time from Dubrovnik to Split and want to experience the new motorway.
> 
> Grateful for any advice. Many thanks.


near Ploče you enter to expressway which connects Ploče with A1. it is not finnished yet so at the end you take D513. In Mali Prolog turn left on D62. just follow D62. after Vrgorac comes Ravča and 3km after Ravča you cannot miss entering to A1.


----------



## STIB

x-type said:


> no, at entrance to tunnel you allways have classic traffic lights (red-orange-green) and there should be before tunnels (about 100 m, too) so it's refering to those traffic lights.


These traffic lights are also used to stop any vehicle exceeding the (limited) height *before *the tunnel entrance!


----------



## zac1bel2

Any idea what is the name of the expressway that connects Ploce to A1 ?
Do you think it's worth the detour thru' Ploce to use the A1 or , is it faster & quicker to continue on the E65 coastal road until we reach Split.

Thanks very much.


----------



## x-type

A1 is better if you want to come faster, you spare at least 45 minutes. btw you don't enter Ploče in any occasion because D8 is also bypassing Ploče. i don't know the number of that expressway, but you cannot miss it because you signs are good and it is signed as "blue" road (yellow -> state roads, blue -> expressways, green -> motorways).

i haven't been there, i am just writing what others say. there is also one more way that some suggest - to take a Ž6208 via Staševica to Vrgorac. in that case you have to turn from D513 at 43° 5'34.40"N/ 17°26'59.21"E (sorry, no inhabitted places there, just find it at google earth  ), but i'd suggest you continuing on D513 if you're first time here. 

btw, from end of expressway to entering motorway you have exactly 30 km.


----------



## panda80

when is a1 section ravca-ploce going to be finished?


----------



## snupix

x-type said:


> there is also one more way that some suggest - to take a Ž6208 via Staševica to Vrgorac. in that case you have to turn from D513 at 43° 5'34.40"N/ 17°26'59.21"E (sorry, no inhabitted places there, just find it at google earth  ), but i'd suggest you continuing on D513 if you're first time here.
> 
> btw, from end of expressway to entering motorway you have exactly 30 km.


I did it this way this summer (the expressway wasn't finished yet), and it's a pleasant alternative with no traffic and nice views...:
































































































































Here's where the A1 starts now:


----------



## zac1bel2

*Thank you*

Thank you.



x-type said:


> A1 is better if you want to come faster, you spare at least 45 minutes. btw you don't enter Ploče in any occasion because D8 is also bypassing Ploče. i don't know the number of that expressway, but you cannot miss it because you signs are good and it is signed as "blue" road (yellow -> state roads, blue -> expressways, green -> motorways).
> 
> i haven't been there, i am just writing what others say. there is also one more way that some suggest - to take a Ž6208 via Staševica to Vrgorac. in that case you have to turn from D513 at 43° 5'34.40"N/ 17°26'59.21"E (sorry, no inhabitted places there, just find it at google earth  ), but i'd suggest you continuing on D513 if you're first time here.
> 
> btw, from end of expressway to entering motorway you have exactly 30 km.


----------



## SeanT

How many Kms of motorways do you have guys in Croatia (2009)?
A lot...I ´ve got the impression.


----------



## x-type

SeanT said:


> How many Kms of motorways do you have guys in Croatia (2009)?
> A lot...I ´ve got the impression.


my sig says that we have 1022 km built and 44 km u/c. that's for motorways. beside that, we have 296 km of expressways and 9 km u/c. this year we should have 1066 km of motorways and those 9 km of new expressways i'm not sure when will be built


----------



## KHS

How many kms of motorway are we going to have after we build it all? About 1500?


----------



## x-type

KHS said:


> How many kms of motorway are we going to have after we build it all? About 1500?


according to last words of our asshole minister about quiting idea of building A7 - we cannot be sure for anything


----------



## OettingerCroat

panda80 said:


> when is a1 section ravca-ploce going to be finished?


by the end of the year at the latest


----------



## x-type

this is what happens when the wind at Maslenica bridge is too strong


----------



## cross

cross said:


> Croatian roads, 2007


:cheers:


----------



## cross

cross said:


> A1 Dugopolje-Šestanovac


:cheers:


----------



## Verso

cross said:


> cross said:
> 
> 
> 
> Croatian roads, 2007
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :cheers:
Click to expand...

music :hahano:


----------



## cross

cross said:


> OettingerCroat
> 02 settembre 2007:cheers:
> 
> Vožnja hrvatskom autocestom A1 kroz Liku, uz pjesmu "Take it Easy" od Eaglesa
> A ride on the Croatian A1 motorway through Lika, to the song "Take it Easy" by The Eagles.
> 
> Categoria: Viaggi ed eventi


:cheers:


----------



## Turnovec

snupix said:


> I did it this way this summer (the expressway wasn't finished yet), and it's a pleasant alternative with no traffic and nice views...:


I've taken that road too back in the summer of 2006 instead of the busy Jadranska magistrala.  Was a pleasent drive from Ploce to the start of A1 somehwere near Split...


----------



## snupix

Definitely 

News: Apparently we got two new motorways now, A12 i A13.


----------



## snupix

cross said:


> D 39 i D8 - Obnovljene dionice
> Šestanovac-Zadvarje-Dubci-Lokva Rogoznica


----------



## cross

krzamak said:


> A1 - Izlaz Kaštela-Trogir :cheers:


:cheers:


----------



## Morsue

Man, there is a lot of drinking going on in this thread :lol:


----------



## bozata90

Morsue said:


> Man, there is a lot of drinking going on in this thread :lol:


Croats...
F**k the cola, f**k the pizza, all we need is šlivovica...


----------



## KHS

:cheers: :lol:


----------



## KHS

*A1*



ivan_ri said:


>


----------



## snupix

And more:



trubilo said:


> Slijede slike sa zaobilaznice na Zametu iznad IGH.





trubilo said:


> Čvor Diračje:


----------



## snupix

And more (new section towards Crikvenica, Senj and A1)



gorgoroth said:


> Malo stanja na Meji


----------



## snupix

I think we also haven't seen this:



ivan_ri said:


> evo i malo fotki radova na mostu Rjecina


----------



## snupix

Nor this:








hehe, dobri uvijeti rada 





























:cheers:


ivan_ri said:


> ja bi ovako nesto i za stalno, da se moze popit kava nad kanjonom


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## snupix

A1 U/C towards Ploče - Dubrovnik



zezi said:


> A1
> Dionica Ravča - Vrgorac
> Vijadukt Gradina
> 
> 
> Tunel Umac sjeverozapadni portal
> 
> 
> Tunel Umac jugoistočni portal
> 
> 
> Usjek poslje tunela Umac
> 
> 
> Vijadukt Kokorići (ili Kotezi)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dionica Vrgorac M. Prolog
> Vijadukt Vrgorac (jedini radovi na toj dionici koje sam ja primjetio!)


----------



## snupix

Beginning of B9 and parts of Rijeka bypass:



ivan_ri said:


> evo jos malo zapadnog djela Rijecke zaobilaznice
> 
> izlaz Matulji
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vrata Jadrana
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zapadni ulaz u grad na Diracju


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## snupix

More from Rijeka bypass:



ivan_ri said:


> rvo malo zapadnog djela rijecke zaobilaznice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> zbog zatvaranja se stvorila velika guzva na doracju, skoro od vrata jadrana do semafora. zbog toga je bilo dosta ovakvih suicidalnih vozaca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ispod ceste za kastav


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## snupix

That was a summary of the photos from last 10 days from the Croatian thread...


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## panda80

snupix said:


> That was a summary of the photos from last 10 days from the Croatian thread...


thanks snupix.good to see progress on croatian roads:cheers:


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## Timon91

Nice update, Snupix. Do you perhaps have a map where all this construction takes place? Thanks


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## snupix

...


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## snupix

^^ This is Rijeka bypass part that is being widened to 2X2 (the rest is already 2x2) (blue) and the completely new part towards Crikvenica (future A7 will go further) (red)

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...d=108320091214494131389.0004655fdecde23b37fed

The map wrongly refers to it as A7, but in fact id is D8. The real A7 currently ends at the western entrance to Rijeka (Matulji) and will go from Rijeka to Žuta Lokva (A7-A1 jcn).


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## snupix

And the A1 section U/C (green) (the already built part to Ravča is missing on the map, was opened in December):

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...3.270706,17.255402&spn=0.474964,1.046448&z=11


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## RawLee

x-type said:


> and A4 in direction Zagreb. Hungarians would build a tunnel here


Very funny!:nuts::lol:


----------



## H123Laci

^^ its funny for them, but shame for us... :bash:


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## x-type

H123Laci said:


> ^^ its funny for them, but shame for us... :bash:


why shame? M6 will look just cool with those tunnels


----------



## snupix

grofBombelles said:


> Novi čvor Kneginec na Vž spoju na autocestu (budućem dijelu Podravske brze ceste). Prvo se planiralo napraviti samo južnu stranu (isključivanje iz smjera Vž i uključenje prema AC), ali zbog brzog razvitka gospodarske zone napravili su i sjevernu stranu :cheers:. Jedino mi je žao što odmah nisu tu dionicu do kružnog toka napravili četverotračnom, bude opet posla na čvoru kod proširivanja na 4 trake. Ovaj čvor bude vrlo pogodan za poslovne zone, koje dosada nisu imale izravnog pristupa na ozbilaznice, nego se je moralo voziti kroz naselja. Isto tako se je naseljima Kučan i Kneginec uvelike smanjila udaljenost do AC.
> 
> Karta:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most preko Plitvice na cesti Kučan-Kneginec
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pristup čvoru iz smjera Kučana:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sjeverni ulaz/izlaz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sjeverna ulazna traka (koja se ne uključuje odmah zbog potpornih stupova nadvožnjaka)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nastavak sjeverne ulazne trake u pravcu Varaždina
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Čvorište, pogled prema AC:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nadvožnjak:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kružni tok s južne strane:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Uključivanje na brzu cestu u smjeru Vž:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pogled na zapad s kružnog toka prema budućoj poslovnoj zoni Kneginec-jug:


----------



## snupix

Vedran X said:


> A11, kod Odre
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A11, nadvožnjak lokalne ceste preko autoceste i pruge kod Lomnice


----------



## snupix

cross said:


> Krbavsko polje dijelom pod vodom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Električna Visočica (1619m) Velebitska još u zimskom ruhu, snijeg je kompaktan iznad 1250m
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A1 i još uvijek Himal Velebit
> 
> *Tnanx to:* http://www.crometeo.net/site/index.php?module=announce&ANN_user_op=view&ANN_id=2604


----------



## cross

stipoooz said:


>


:cheers:


----------



## H123Laci

^^ cool! :cheers:

I think that is a hungarian folk musik in the 4th video at 4:00...


----------



## x-type

not really. this is music from ethno group Legen, they use croatian folklore songs for basis. this one is about peacock  and is widely spread in different forms around Croatia, in more regions. it sounds hungarian because od fiddle


----------



## KHS

Nice update snupix!


----------



## Manolo_B2

Viaduct over Mirna river, Istria :drool:



















:hi:


----------



## PLH

I very much enjoyed driving there, untill we get stucked behind a 80 km/h Dutchmen :no:

How is widening of Istrian Y going?


----------



## x-type

PLH said:


> How is widening of Istrian Y going?


currently works on Pula - Kanfanar are progressing


----------



## ChrisZwolle

PLH said:


> I very much enjoyed driving there, untill we get stucked behind a 80 km/h Dutchmen :no:


Yep, a problem in Germany too hno: A lot of Dutchmen think they are allowed 80 in other countries on national roads because 80 is the Vmax in NL... Too stupid to think themselves..


----------



## H123Laci

PLH said:


> I very much enjoyed driving there, untill we get stucked behind a 80 km/h Dutchmen :no:


why didnt you overtake him?


----------



## x-type

H123Laci said:


> why didnt you overtake him?


because at Istrian Y there is large traffic in both directions, especially during the summer.


----------



## Radish2

Ok, you idiots, you imbeciles diss Slovenia for having expensive vigniette, but I went through Croatia yesterday and paid fucking 20 € in one direction for awful bumpy and ugly motorways? X-type, are you insame to dare to diss Slovenia, which has the best motorways and nationalroads in europe, they use the best asphalt in whole europe and you dare to want 20 € for one direction. Have I got something wrong, have the Croatians rapped me off? I want to go through awesome Slovenia and that´s why I will consider going Slovenia and then Maribor and Hungary, because 20 € for ugly motorways and ugly crashbarriers, sorry. And all gasoline stations are shite with shite toilettes, no OMV, no Shell, no nothing? I want an explanation!

*And something else, never ever diss Slovenia for their vigniettes*


----------



## snupix

:lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## Radish2

It´s not funny, why did I have to pay 20 € for 300 km of low quality motorway?


----------



## snupix

Btw. someone ripped you off, because you had to pay 15€. And sorry for the barriers, I'll go personally and start polishing them right away. :lol:


btw. In Croatia you pay 15€ for 300 kilometers, and in Slovenia you pay 15€ for 10 meters (i.e. Maribor roundabout)


----------



## Radish2

I had to pay 20 €, and you dare to diss Slovenia? Slovenia at least have a clue how to build motorways, you don´t have a clue.


----------



## snupix

Radish2 said:


> I had to pay 20 €, and you dare to diss Slovenia? Slovenia at least have a clue how to build motorways, you don´t have a clue.


That's a lie, we have a subject in elementary and high school "Building water-resistant-asphalted-and-shiny-crashbarriered-motorways", and in the university we even have work actions where students visit Slovenia and analyze their asphalt, in order to steal the formula. But pssst...!


----------



## Radish2

snupix said:


> Btw. someone ripped you off, because you had to pay 15€. And sorry for the barriers, I'll go personally and start polishing them right away. :lol:
> 
> 
> btw. In Croatia you pay 15€ for 300 kilometers, and in Slovenia you pay 15€ for 10 meters (i.e. Maribor roundabout)


Oh really, the vigniette lasts half year for 35 € and not only one direction. And the roads have quality, I thought the car is not driving when I went through Slovenia, in Croatia the car shaked up and down all the time because of the poor quality motorways for 20 € in one direction.


----------



## Timon91

:rofl:


----------



## snupix

Radish2 said:


> Oh really, the vigniette lasts half year for 35 € and not only one direction. And the roads have quality, I thought the car is not driving when I went through Slovenia, in Croatia the car shaked up and down all the time because of the poor quality motorways for 20 € in one direction.


You're right. I'll try to arrange you that they install magnetic levitation equipment on the A3 so you don't feel the bumps next time.


----------



## Radish2

No, seriously, why is it so expensive to go through Croatia? It is overpriced.


----------



## Verso

snupix said:


> btw. In Croatia you pay 15€ for 300 kilometers, and in Slovenia you pay 15€ for 10 meters (i.e. Maribor roundabout)


10 m (if you're stupid) or thousands of kms (if you're smart). When I bought a yearly Austrian vignette once, I explored the country, instead of sitting at home or going to Germany once a year. Maybe Croats should see sth more than just their sea, you're close to Slovenia to explore its beauties.


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

This Radi character cannot be for real. I mean.. it was funny for some period. But no one can be that dumb. Someone has double acc and is pulling massive prank on all of us.


----------



## Manolo_B2

Verso said:


> you're close to Slovenia to explore its beauties.


this statement is childish... :tongue3:


----------



## panda80

SpicyMcHaggis said:


> This Radi character cannot be for real. I mean.. it was funny for some period. But no one can be that dumb. Someone has double acc and is pulling massive prank on all of us.


radi made two statements:
-motorways in croatia are ugly and of poor quality
-motorways in croatia are damn expensive
the first is wrong i think, but the second is reeeaaally true.you have no right to blame slovenia for its overpriced vignettes(which are expensive anyway, they should have looked at the price of austrian vignettes) since you have so expensive motorways.i think is tipically balkan, people want to enrich themselves very fast here.


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

edit


----------



## Verso

Manolo_B2 said:


> this statement is childish... :tongue3:


Why would it be childish? Isn't it good to know the area around you? Instead of complaining like old grandmas, you should visit Slovenia more often.


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

edit


----------



## Verso

I'm talking about an average Croatian, who doesn't know much more than Croatian sea (and perhaps Kranjska Gora, as far as Slovenia is concerned). You won't convince me that an average Croatian knows Slovenia well (except maybe from photos). I've seen a lot of Croatia, for example.


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## SpicyMcHaggis

edit


----------



## Radish2

Don´t care Verso. You see how X-type and the other Croatians diss Slovenia for bullshit. Croatians motorways have bad quality, compared to Slovenian motorways and the prices are fucking insame! I don´t want my car to go up and down when I have to pay 20 €. But that´s typical Balkan metallity, like all Croatian toilettes on the gasoline stations that are very dirty and smell like shit all the time.


----------



## Verso

Where is NW Croatia? Does it even exist?


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

edit


----------



## Radish2

Serbia has also luxury OMV, so I don´t understand why Croatia doesn´t have it.


----------



## Manolo_B2

Verso said:


> I'm talking about an average Croatian, who doesn't know much more than Croatian sea (and perhaps Kranjska Gora, as far as Slovenia is concerned). You won't convince me that an average Croatian knows Slovenia well (except maybe from photos). I've seen a lot of Croatia, for example.


Verso, i understand your point, but it's a fact that many people don't know the countries around them well. it doesen't matters if it's in croatia, slovenia, germany or spain.

croatians know that their highways are quite expensive, but slovenia knows that they are perventing a good development of the croatian tourism with the extreme expensive vignettes for that small country.



Radish2 said:


> all Croatian toilettes on the gasoline stations are very dirty and smell like shit all the time.


this statement is a reason for banning you once again! hno:


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

edit


----------



## Ban.BL

Verso said:


> 10 m (if you're stupid) or thousands of kms (if you're smart). When I bought a yearly Austrian vignette once, I explored the country, instead of sitting at home or going to Germany once a year. Maybe Croats should see sth more than just their sea, you're close to Slovenia to explore its beauties.


if you drive from Graz to Zagreb it is 9km. So 35€ for 18km it is not that bad :bash:


----------



## Ban.BL

Radish2 said:


> Oh really, the vigniette lasts half year for 35 € and not only one direction. And the roads have quality, I thought the car is not driving when I went through Slovenia, in Croatia the car shaked up and down all the time because of the poor quality motorways for 20 € in one direction.


quality of slovenian and croatian motorways is the same.


----------



## dubart

Radish2 said:


> Serbia has also luxury OMV, so I don´t understand why Croatia doesn´t have it.


Says who? http://www.omv.hr


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

edit


----------



## Ban.BL

Verso said:


> I'm talking about an average Croatian, who doesn't know much more than Croatian sea (and perhaps Kranjska Gora, as far as Slovenia is concerned). You won't convince me that an average Croatian knows Slovenia well (except maybe from photos). I've seen a lot of Croatia, for example.


So you plan your holidays by vignettes?


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

edit


----------



## ivan_ri

hahaha, radi your arguments are a joke


----------



## Radish2

No, they aren´t, there´s no reasonable explanation why Croatia wants so much money for their motorways.


----------



## snupix

Verso said:


> 10 m (if you're stupid) or thousands of kms (if you're smart). When I bought a yearly Austrian vignette once, I explored the country, instead of sitting at home or going to Germany once a year. Maybe Croats should see sth more than just their sea, you're close to Slovenia to explore its beauties.


Don't worry, I've explored almost whole of beautiful Slovenia, but that doesn't mean that if I'm going to Vienna I have to pay a nonsense price for a few km's.

Other than that, if you want to explore a country, you should avoid motorways because you don't see the real life when driving on them. I've seen the whole Europe on ordinary roads, and it's not about the money


----------



## snupix

Radish2 said:


> X-type, you always fight with the poor Slovenians and say they have expensive vigniette. They have the best motorways in europe, the smoothest and best looking and your motorways are crap, the car goes up and down man and the crashbarriers even are B profil. 20 € in one direction is fucking expensive.


Let's stop this crap about 20€ for the beginning, because it's 15€.


----------



## Radish2

I will scan the tickets we got, to see that we paid 20 €.


----------



## snupix

Radish2 said:


> X-type, answer me only this please, why do you diss Slovenia all the time, saying the vigniette is expensive and the motorway construction isn´t fast enough, when your motorways are way more expensive and are worse than Slovenias. Slovenia gets way less money for motorways than Croatia so it is normal that Croatia has all motorways build! For the money someone has to pay the motorway should be in best condition always.


Haha, what are you talking about, man? We pay the motorways by ourselves (very big loans), almost nothing (if not nothing) from the EU. Funds are negligible. It's exactly the opposite.

I can see that you've actually never been anywhere than Sofia and your other home in Germany, and all you've seen of european roads is this route. You're talking crap all the time.

Please go through Hungary (and maybe Romania) next time for two reasons:

1. To save your car from Croatian bumps and holes
2. To see some other parts of the World


----------



## snupix

Radish2 said:


> I will scan the tickets we got, to see that we paid 20 €.


Please do it. You should've paid exactly 110 kn which is 14.85 €.


----------



## Radish2

I´ve travelled through Hungary very often, at least the motorways are of good quality and vigniette very cheap. I wanted to go through Slovenia to see the highest quality roads, and the great mountains, that´s why I went through there.


----------



## Verso

Maybe it's 20 €, if you pay in euros, not kunas?


----------



## snupix

Radish2 said:


> If you don´t notice a difference that doesn´t mean the asphalt of the motorways is the same.


Did you also do the asphalt-formula spying in both countries? For whom were you spying, Bulgaria or Germany?


----------



## snupix

Verso said:


> Maybe it's 20 €, if you pay in euros, not kunas?


No, the exchange rate is the usual one, the thing is that he probably got the rest back in kunas. But he obviously didn't notice that :lol:


----------



## Radish2

First we had to pay 5 € at the beginning, then we had to pay 14,97 some km before the Croatian - Serbian border.


----------



## dubart

At the beginning? I don't get it.


----------



## Verso

snupix said:


> No, the exchange rate is the usual one


Are you sure? Maybe in euros, but when I paid with tolars a few years ago, it was more expensive (although that's common).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Maybe the first part from the border to Zagreb, and then from Zagreb to Serbia (A3).


----------



## dubart

ChrisZwolle said:


> Maybe the first part from the border to Zagreb, and then from Zagreb to Serbia (A3).


But where did he enter Croatia?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

From Ljubljana I guess.. He was talking about the Tauern and Karawankentunnels before..


----------



## snupix

You've paid 5 kuna, not 5 €.


----------



## dubart

snupix said:


> You've paid 5 kuna, not 5 €.


Which is less than one Euro... :nuts:


----------



## Radish2

NO, I mean in Croatia. We passed the Slovenian border and after some km we had to pay 5 €, then I had to pull a ticket at the second station and then some km before the Croatian - Serbian border we had to pay 14,97 €.


----------



## H123Laci

^^ only juróp... :lol:


----------



## Sarcastic Saracen

Radish2 said:


> No, they aren´t low quality, but they aren´t highest quality either, they are of lower quality then the motorways in Slovenia for example, the new asphalt motorways in Austria are also of higher quality, look better, feel softer, *I don´t want to drive on asphalt that is as hard as concrete*.


Radi, any relations with the princes from the "The Princess and the Pea"?



ivan_ri said:


> the ones that aren't, are owned by foringers...


C'mon man, there is a difference between a concession and an ownership.


----------



## Sarcastic Saracen

ChrisZwolle said:


> First pics:
> 
> Stupid Dutchmen everywhere!


That is probably a croatian dude because 7 out of 10 cars with NL plates are Croatians, one is Bosnian, one is Dutch having a croatian friend he came to visit and only one is a "real" dutch tourist that came to visit our country. Only I've got 3 family members coming from Holland every spring and summer holidays.:lol:


----------



## Zanovijetalo

And that one real Dutchman always drags his home behind his vehicle. They love their homes, the Dutchmen.


----------



## ivan_ri

Sarcastic Saracen said:


> C'mon man, there is a difference between a concession and an ownership.


ok, then i should correct myself. they manage them for vast period of time, with possibility of extension of their management :lol:


----------



## Nukleusri

Rijeka - Zagreb - Samobor - Rijeka 21.02.09.
Zagreb (South) - Lučko









Zagreb - Jadranska Avenija


















Zagreb - Buzin









Zagreb (South) - Lučko again (other direction)









Zagreb (West)- Jankomir


















A3 towards Bregana
exit Sveta Nedjelja









exit Samobor 









Zagreb (West) - other direction









A6 (Zagreb) - Bosiljevo - Rijeka
exit Ravna Gora









Between exit Oštrovica and Kikovica (toll booth Rijeka - Grobnik)

















































































A3 Bregana - Zagreb - Slavonski Brod - Županja 19.03.09.
near Slavonski Brod









exit Slavonski Brod East




































Rest area Stari Hrastovi (Old Oaks ) near Popovača


----------



## Palance

ivan_ri said:


> Ucka tunnel again


I have made this picture in 1981 (!!), not long after the tunnel was opened:


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

Nice pics!


----------



## Sponsor

Nothing has changed. BTW what's in this ugly white builiding? some hotel or sth?


----------



## Palance

Nukleusri said:


> Zagreb - Buzin


This still is an old sign from the "Yugoslav" era, the only thing that has changes is the replacement of "Beograd" by "Lipovac" (very small village at the HR-SRB-border).

Last september, I have made this picture of the sign that is right ahead of this exit (which is also an old sign)


----------



## x-type

Sponsor said:


> Nothing has changed. BTW what's in this ugly white builiding? some hotel or sth?


headquarters of concessionaire 



Palance said:


> This still is an old sign from the "Yugoslav" era, the only thing that has changes is the replacement of "Beograd" by "Lipovac" (very small village at the HR-SRB-border).


it is interesting how this sign is still not removed. as far as i know - it's the last one from that period at HR motorways. but i also admire it'scolour which hasn't faded at all


----------



## Nukleusri

Palance said:


> This still is an old sign from the "Yugoslav" era, the only thing that has changes is the replacement of "Beograd" by "Lipovac" (very small village at the HR-SRB-border)...





x-type said:


> it is interesting how this sign is still not removed. as far as i know - it's the last one from that period at HR motorways. but i also admire it'scolour which hasn't faded at all


Well Lipovac is the last exit in Croatia, and today formally motorway 'ends' in Lipovac (actually it ends on border crossing Bajakovo (HR) - Batrovci (SRB)). But I really don't know why then they didn't have put Slavonski Brod or Županja on the sign..  they will replace it... one day :lol:


----------



## x-type

Nukleusri said:


> Well Lipovac is the last exit in Croatia, and today formally motorway 'ends' in Lipovac (actually it ends on border crossing Bajakovo (HR) - Batrovci (SRB)). But I really don't know why then they didn't have put Slavonski Brod or Županja on the sign..  they will replace it... one day :lol:


it's only at those old signs. at new signs Lipovac is really rare. around Zagreb area you have signed Slavonski Brod. you have precise explanation of places at direction signs in law so if you are interested into it, find it in Narodne Novine and study it


----------



## snupix

Nice pictures! :cheers:


----------



## Verso

They opened 32.5 km of A5 to Osijek today. :cheers:


----------



## banjabuja

Verso, do you have a map of where in Osijek the A5 ends?


----------



## SeanT

Verso said:


> They opened 32.5 km of A5 to Osijek today. :cheers:


How many kms do you have left to the H border?


----------



## x-type

banjabuja said:


> Verso, do you have a map of where in Osijek the A5 ends?


here

30 km is left from Osijek to the border


----------



## Ban.BL

Palance said:


> This still is an old sign from the "Yugoslav" era, *the only thing that has changes* is the replacement of "Beograd" by "Lipovac" (very small village at the HR-SRB-border).
> 
> Last september, I have made this picture of the sign that is right ahead of this exit (which is also an old sign)


not the only thing they have changed "aerodrom" with "zracna luka"



x-type said:


> headquarters of concessionaire
> it is interesting how this sign is still not removed. as far as i know - it's the last one from that period at HR motorways. but i also admire it'scolour which hasn't faded at all


i have seen more this old signs with "aerodrom"


----------



## Buddy Holly

The word is _aerodrom_.


----------



## Majestic

Oh, no, what a rough and bumpy pavement and stinky toilets hno: 
And don't forget those ridiculous tolls. :lol:

Seriously, nice pictures. Croatian motorway design resembles Polish one very much. I like those simple but nice-looking viaducts. Much better than those you can find everywhere throughout Poland:


----------



## Total

Is that standard color setting, or it looks like in kindergarten with many different colors? Although, having different colors would ease the explaining: get of motorway after yellow overpass


----------



## arhi

Sem slučajno zašel na to temo preko linka. 

Na hrvaškem je bila izumljena avtocesta z dvema pasoma, ki je ločena z dolgo belo črto na sredini, kot je to primer v Istri. Ni čudno, da se nemci in nizozemci tam vozijo 80 km/h, ker mislijo, da so na regionalni cesti. Pri njih je nemogoče, da bi imela avtocesta manj kot dva pasa v eno smer. Ker so nekateri bolj počasne pameti tega sploh ne pogruntajo in se vozijo 80. :lol: Tudi sam sem bil pred kakšnimi štirimi leti v Poreču in sem se vozil 90 km/h za v koloni za nekim nemcem. Sicer pa takšen tip ceste za večje hitrosti ni primeren. Govorim o varni vožnji. Prehitevanje na takšni cesti sploh ni mogoče, če pa hočeš koga prehiteti, moraš narediti prekršek. To je po vseh standardih hitra cesta z omejitvijo hitrosti od 90 km/h do maksimalno 120 km/h. 

Sicer nisem napisal posta zaradi kritiziranja, pač pa me zanima kje se konča avtocesta v smeri proti Splitu. Zanima me, ker bi si rad ogledal stadion v Poljudu, ker sem bil nekoč navijač Hajduka.


----------



## ethernal

dubart said:


> Bloody mosquitos and čmrlj's


In polish TRZMIEL :nuts: read: Tshmeeell or somethink like this :lol:

Sorry for OT but I had to :cheers:


----------



## ethernal

Btw, I driven on A% on 8th the April and unfortunately the new section was closed yet...
Is there anybody from my brothers iz Hvartske who knows when will be finished section from Osijek to Hungarian border of A5? and to B&H border?
It`s quite important for me because I pretty often go to Tuzla or Sarajevo for business trip.
Thanks for any info. :cheers: Živjeli!!


----------



## x-type

arhi said:


> Sem slučajno zašel na to temo preko linka.
> 
> Na hrvaškem je bila izumljena avtocesta z dvema pasoma, ki je ločena z dolgo belo črto na sredini, kot je to primer v Istri. Ni čudno, da se nemci in nizozemci tam vozijo 80 km/h, ker mislijo, da so na regionalni cesti. Pri njih je nemogoče, da bi imela avtocesta manj kot dva pasa v eno smer. Ker so nekateri bolj počasne pameti tega sploh ne pogruntajo in se vozijo 80. :lol: Tudi sam sem bil pred kakšnimi štirimi leti v Poreču in sem se vozil 90 km/h za v koloni za nekim nemcem. Sicer pa takšen tip ceste za večje hitrosti ni primeren. Govorim o varni vožnji. Prehitevanje na takšni cesti sploh ni mogoče, če pa hočeš koga prehiteti, moraš narediti prekršek. To je po vseh standardih hitra cesta z omejitvijo hitrosti od 90 km/h do maksimalno 120 km/h.


invented? and how about this? or any of german bundesstrassen which have speed limit 100 km/h?


ethernal said:


> Btw, I driven on A% on 8th the April and unfortunately the new section was closed yet...
> Is there anybody from my brothers iz Hvartske who knows when will be finished section from Osijek to Hungarian border of A5? and to B&H border?
> It`s quite important for me because I pretty often go to Tuzla or Sarajevo for business trip.
> Thanks for any info. :cheers: Živjeli!!


still no precise dates, but in some 5 years. due to making completely new border crossings with H and BIH it will depend about construction from their sides, too


----------



## Alle

ethernal said:


> Btw, I driven on A% on 8th the April and unfortunately the new section was closed yet...
> Is there anybody from my brothers iz Hvartske who knows when will be finished section from Osijek to Hungarian border of A5? and to B&H border?
> It`s quite important for me because I pretty often go to Tuzla or Sarajevo for business trip.
> Thanks for any info. :cheers: Živjeli!!


This is not about the Croatian part of the V5, but anyhow.

As far as Tuzla and the Soli area, there is a motorway proposed going from the HR border at Brcko, through Tuzla and to Sarajevo. But who knows when that will be built, not before the VC section is completed. Hopefully things will develop well.


----------



## 1.vod

http://www.eurotestmobility.com/eurotap.php?itemno=299&lang=EN


----------



## Majestic

Total said:


> Is that standard color setting, or it looks like in kindergarten with many different colors? Although, having different colors would ease the explaining: get of motorway after yellow overpass


There's no standard color set, however, most of the overpasses are in color, usually light green. 
The design is usually all the same.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

1.vod said:


> http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg312/markec_2008/2261_me.jpg
> 
> http://www.eurotestmobility.com/eurotap.php?itemno=299&lang=EN


Lots of unimportant tunnels...


----------



## keber

True, seems that they have run-out of tunnels for testing.


----------



## KHS

*Rijeka*

Thanks to gorgoroth

Most Riječina






:cheers:


----------



## KHS

Thanks to gorgoroth






:cheers:


----------



## KHS

Sorry about this but there are to many pictures on this page


----------



## KHS

*Pećine tunnel - Rijeka*



ivan_ri said:


> ^^ne znam, mozda si mislio za prikljucak u drugom smjeru :?
> 
> evo odlican pdf o tunelu :cheers: http://hrcak.srce.hr/file/40992
> 
> ukratko:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :cheers:


:cheers:


----------



## KHS

*Pećine tunnel - Rijeka*



ivan_ri said:


> dakle ovako nesto bi bilo tocnije :cheers:



:cheers:


----------



## KHS

And some pictures...

Thanks to gorgoroth

Tunel Pećine















Tower shopping center exit


----------



## KHS

Thanks to gorgoroth

Bobovo tunnel


----------



## KHS

Thanks to gorgoroth


----------



## KHS

*Future Omiš bypass*


----------



## KHS

^^


----------



## Ban.BL

beautiful scenery


----------



## Verso

That mountain looks surreal! And an exit in tunnel; let's see, if it will be opened sooner than in our Šentvid. 



ChrisZwolle said:


> Lots of unimportant tunnels...


Stägjitschugge. :lol: At least Tuhobić is important in Croatia...

The A5 looks great, btw!


----------



## Timon91

Verso crossed the 10,000 posts 

Beautiful scenery :cheers:


----------



## H123Laci

KHS said:


>


that wont be a cheap bypass... :nuts:


btw: do you have any online tourist map? (like: www.mapy.cz or www.turistautak.hu)


----------



## Verso

Timon91 said:


> Verso crossed the 10,000 posts


Yeah, I posted my 10,000th post in our quarrelling thread about whether to open separate threads about 9-km motorways. :lol:


----------



## x-type

H123Laci said:


> btw: do you have any online tourist map? (like: www.mapy.cz or www.turistautak.hu)


http://www.croatia.hr/English/Destinacije/Odredista.aspx


----------



## H123Laci

^^ thanx, but this is not what I am looking for...

(there are no hiking maps even in the climbing section... hno: )

I am looking for an online map (similar to maps.google) which shows the hiking routes...

(check the links in my previous post...)


----------



## snupix

^^ There is the AdriaTopo map for Garmin, but it's expensive.


----------



## snupix

It looks like this:


----------



## dubart

H123Laci, check this: http://www.karte.hr or http://www.cromaps.com/vacmap/autokarta_hrvatska.htm Maybe it will be helpful.


----------



## ivan_ri

this book woult be the thing you're looking for. I don't know if there is online version of it. probably not...


----------



## snupix

ivan_ri said:


> this book woult be the thing you're looking for. I don't know if there is online version of it. probably not...


This is a hiking atlas, in that case, it would be good to have the complete book:

http://www.superknjizara.hr/?page=knjiga&nethrBanner=1&id_knjiga=21363&lang=en

But it's available only in Croatian.

What kind of _tourist_ maps are you looking for?


----------



## keber

snupix said:


> What kind of _tourist_ maps are you looking for?


Maybe some sort of Croatian version of www.geopedia.si which I would like to see it too.


----------



## snupix

keber said:


> Maybe some sort of Croatian version of www.geopedia.si which I would like to see it too.


In Croatia it's considered illegal to share these and some mountain bikers who put topographic maps of Croatia on the Internet a few years ago went to jail (or had to pay big fines, don't know exactly) because of that.

However, you can go to a government institution, pay some sum of money, and get those on paper. But, afaik, it's quite expensive.


----------



## keber

In Slovenia it is not cheap, either. But above page is sponsored by Geodesy administration and having such page with all relevant tourist information on one page helps tourism a lot. Croatioa should do it too.


----------



## snupix

keber said:


> Croatia should do it too.


I agree and hope we will see it on the Internet. In the meanwhile one can use those GPS maps (that aren't cheap either, but are electronic).


----------



## pijanec

snupix said:


> In Croatia it's considered illegal to share these and some mountain bikers who put topographic maps of Croatia on the Internet a few years ago went to jail (or had to pay big fines, don't know exactly) because of that.


So Google Earth is then illegal too?


----------



## snupix

pijanec said:


> So Google Earth is then illegal too?


Yeah, it's banned here (by all major ISPs).


----------



## snupix

^^:jk: :tongue2:









It's only prohibited to share those topographic (military) maps. But you can buy them if you pay. :nuts:


----------



## ivan_ri

i agree :cheers:

and here is Rijeka bypass update



gorgoroth said:


> Asfaltiranje čvora Rujevica
> 
> 
> 
> http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/8547/dsc071981.jpg
> 
> http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/4413/dsc072001.jpg





gorgoroth said:


> Ulaz na čvor Rujevica na Turniću





gorgoroth said:


> Neasfaltirani dio na Rujevici
> 
> 
> 
> http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4884/dsc072031.jpg





gorgoroth said:


> Nadvožnjak iznad zaobilaznice
> 
> http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/6579/dsc072021.jpg
> 
> http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2964/dsc072041.jpg


----------



## ivan_ri

Rijeka bypass - 2



gorgoroth said:


> Završni sloj asfalta na čvoru Rujevica
> 
> 
> 
> http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1085/dsc072531.jpg





gorgoroth said:


> Ulaz na čvoru Diračje prema Zagreb
> 
> 
> 
> http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7186/dsc072611.jpg
> 
> http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7672/dsc072621n.jpg





gorgoroth said:


> Stavljaju se tabele





gorgoroth said:


> Dalje prema ZG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7779/dsc072651.jpg
> 
> http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/5977/dsc072661.jpg
> 
> http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/3151/dsc072671.jpg
> 
> http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/8787/dsc072681.jpg
> 
> http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/4130/dsc072701.jpg


----------



## Verso

The first post is only a connecting road (4-laned), the bypass isn't so winding.


----------



## ivan_ri

Rijeka bypass - 3



gorgoroth said:


> Asfaltiranje se nastavlja punom parom nadoma Rujevice
> 
> 
> 
> http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/5967/dsc072721.jpg
> 
> http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/3029/dsc072731.jpg





gorgoroth said:


> Iz smjera Vrata jadrana na čvoru Diračje
> 
> 
> 
> http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/6135/dsc072741.jpg
> 
> http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5411/dsc072751.jpg





gorgoroth said:


> Na čvoru Rujevica isto gužva
> 
> Ulaz na čvor
> 
> 
> 
> http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/7856/dsc072781.jpg
> 
> http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/2374/dsc072791.jpg
> 
> http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/6282/dsc072811.jpg





gorgoroth said:


> Ulaz na zaobilaznicu u smjeru ZG
> 
> http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/5152/dsc072861.jpg
> 
> izlaz iz smjera Opatije


----------



## ivan_ri

Verso said:


> The first post is only a connecting road (4-laned), the bypass isn't so winding.


it is connection road for the new exit "Rujevica" :cheers:
but it is being built as a part of bypass widening so I put it here :cheers:


----------



## ivan_ri

Rijeka bypass - 4



gorgoroth said:


> Pogled na zaobilaznicu s nadvožnjaka





gorgoroth said:


> Izlaz s zaobilaznice na Turniću
> 
> http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/918/dsc072871.jpg
> 
> http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4848/dsc072881.jpg





gorgoroth said:


> Viadukt Mihačeva draga
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> betoniranje u punom jeku
> 
> 
> 
> 
> trasa dalje prema Trsatu
> 
> http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/9743/dsc073141.jpg[/QUOTE]
> 
> [QUOTE="gorgoroth, post: 0"]Još malo viadukta
> 
> [URL=http://img26.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc073161.jpg][IMG]http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/9813/dsc073161.jpg[/URL]


----------



## ivan_ri

Rijeka bypass - 5



gorgoroth said:


> Tunel Škurinje I





gorgoroth said:


> Tunel Škurinje II,tj. portal





gorgoroth said:


> Čvor Rujevica
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2489/dsc073231.jpg
> 
> http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/5171/dsc073251.jpg


----------



## ivan_ri

road d404, connection betwin Rijeka's port and east part of bypass in Draga

source: Novi List



















:cheers:


----------



## Verso

ivan_ri said:


> it is connection road for the new exit "Rujevica" :cheers:
> but it is being built as a part of bypass widening so I put it here :cheers:


I know, I just didn't want people to be confused. :cheers:



ivan_ri said:


> *r*o*ad* d*404*


radi6404 :nuts: :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I like the Krk pics! Nice winding road, and those cycle lanes are very good!


----------



## Timon91

Verso said:


> ^ Totally awesome road!


Agreed! And they have bicycle lanes, though they're a bit narrow :banana:


----------



## Ban.BL

narrow? No it is not heart of Amsterdam there are barely any cyclist there.

This photo is great
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3797/d102povratno008.jpg


----------



## Verso

Timon91 said:


> Agreed! And they have bicycle lanes, though they're a bit narrow :banana:


Those "narrow" bicycle lanes are a total luxury IMO.


----------



## Verso

So 9 km of A11 were opened today, which lead nowhere? Does anyone have a map with its exact location?


----------



## mati162c

any photos???
maybe there are some in croatian some forum?!
aren't there???


----------



## bubach_hlubach

Ban.BL said:


> narrow? No it is not heart of Amsterdam there are barely any cyclist there.
> 
> This photo is great
> http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3797/d102povratno008.jpg


According to what our Croatian fellow, whose occupation is road maintanance, and is very familiar with the situation on the island of Krk, says - that in fact, there was obviously a need for the bike path because lots of tourists use it in the tourist season as well as before and after it due to increased traffic. Athough, he is not sure about any future plans to build more bike paths on the island, he thinks there are certainly more needed. 



MountMan said:


> Staza je napravljena od odvojka za Valbisku do obilaznice grada Krka. Ne prolazi kroz nijedno mjesto. *Ali je bila potrebna jer su biciklisti, kao i svugdje u jakim turističkim destinacijama, vrlo prisutni u predsezoni, sezoni i posezoni, upravo kada i ima najviše prometa.*
> Najvjerojatnije će biti povezana sa nekim pješačko biciklističkim stazama u prirodi, a vrlo se lako poveže i s nekom budućom stazom prema Malinskoj (moguća izgradnja uz cestu za Malinsku, dijelom paralelnu sa D102).
> Stvarne planove izgradnje biciklističkih staza na Krku ne znam, *ali znam da ima potrebe.*
> :cheers:


Besides, doesn't it figure it was built for a reason? I ain't quite sure who the heck would've spent the extra money on a frivolous project, not nowadays anyway.  

:cheers:


----------



## Zanovijetalo

mati162c said:


> any photos???


Reposting from Cro Motorway SSC section



Gabriel_Batistuta said:


> Jučer je otvorena nova dionica autoceste Zagreb-Sisak,
> odnosno dionica duga devet kilometara između Velike Gorice i Buševca.


----------



## Verso

^^ OMG, is gravel the only possible access to this new motorway??  :nuts:


----------



## Zanovijetalo

Pfff so attentive to details...

We have local elections next week so things are getting *open* as we speak - tomorrow at noon the beginning of the construction on the very south, Dubrovnik-Doli A1 section, will be opened. 

Btw Zagreb Sisak is said to be completed by the summer of 2011, this southern section in 30 months.


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> ^^ OMG, is gravel the only possible access to this new motorway??  :nuts:


it isnot, but currently those 9 km are useless unless you're traveling from southern Velika Gorica to Novo Selo Lekeničko :lol:


----------



## Ban.BL

at least someone will profit


----------



## pijanec

cross said:


> *Statal road D102, Island of Krk
> 09/05/'09*.


The road is beautiful, indeed. But I have one question.

Why did Croatia lately move to American style speed limits signage? Instead of European typical general system 90-50-90 (build up areas - outside build up areas + adopt speed to road conditions), they put tons of speed limits signs separately on every stretch of the road. Why do you even still have a general speed limits then?

So lately they are putting like 30 speed limit signs on 10 kms of road which previously just had general speed limit of 90 km/h. Not to mention those new speed limits are ridiculously low. Even if road is completely straight they would put like 80 km/h instead of just let general speed limit to apply.


----------



## x-type

pijanec said:


> So lately they are putting like 30 speed limit signs on 10 kms of road which previously just had general speed limit of 90 km/h. Not to mention those new speed limits are ridiculously low. Even if road is completely straight they would put like 80 km/h instead of just let general speed limit to apply.


my opinion is because road constructors and firms for road equipment don't care about new speed limits (which are not that new anymore), so we still have tonnes of new 80 and 100 km/h signs instead of 90 and 110.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

pijanec said:


> Why did Croatia lately move to American style speed limits signage? Instead of European typical general system 90-50-90 (build up areas - outside build up areas + adopt speed to road conditions), they put tons of speed limits signs separately on every stretch of the road. Why do you even still have a general speed limits then?


In my opinion, a different speed limit for each road conditions add to the credibility of a speed limit. Having just one fixed speed limit for a whole road system is very predictable, but also leads to numerous occasions where there speed limit is too low for the looks of the road, hence more speed violations by drivers. Germany does a pretty good job with that.


----------



## bubach_hlubach

A random shot of A2.










:cheers:


----------



## Ban.BL

pijanec said:


> The road is beautiful, indeed. But I have one question.
> 
> Why did Croatia lately move to American style speed limits signage? Instead of European typical general system 90-50-90 (build up areas - outside build up areas + adopt speed to road conditions), they put tons of speed limits signs separately on every stretch of the road. Why do you even still have a general speed limits then?
> 
> So lately they are putting like 30 speed limit signs on 10 kms of road which previously just had general speed limit of 90 km/h. Not to mention those new speed limits are ridiculously low. Even if road is completely straight they would put like 80 km/h instead of just let general speed limit to apply.


It has always been like that, it is not some new thing, it was like that in whole Yugoslavia and i think it is better like that than the situation with general speed limit. They are reminding people how fast can they drive. I had situation when i was in Hungary i missed general speed limitation sign at the border and in whole Hungary at least that stretch that i have driven there are no speed limitation signs :bash:
I was pissed.


----------



## zezi

Verso said:


> So 9 km of A11 were opened today, which lead nowhere? Does anyone have a map with its exact location?





Red part was opened on saturday
Green part is UC - next year will be finished
Blue part - still in our dreams 

http://www.huka.hr/Mreza-autocesta/


----------



## Verso

^^ Hm, but the red part doesn't look like 9 km..


----------



## zezi

Verso said:


> ^^ Hm, but the red part doesn't look like 9 km..


I think it is *7,5 km* highway + 1,5 km access roads

And map isn't good, also!


----------



## x-type

map is quite wrong. here is how it looks like:

blue - previously built "corn field - corn field" motorway
red - opened last week
green - u/c


----------



## mati162c

it really is useless, btw why have they built thisVelika Gorica interchange at first???
what for???
it looks like before opening of this 9-km. stretch it was at least a good cycling road...:bash:


----------



## Verso

Thanks for the map, x-type! Is there any connecting road from the end of the motorway by Buševec to the main road? Too bad it isn't tolled yet; I'd be interested in AADT.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Verso said:


> I'd be interested in AADT.


I once did a traffic count on a road that had 9 AADT :lol:


----------



## zezi

@ mati1962c
Reason for V.Gorica interchange
AADT on old road
Zagreb - V. Gorica about 40 000
V. Gorica - Sisak about 11 000



@ Verso
Yes, there are conecting roads at both ends of this newly open part of motorway!


----------



## x-type

actually, people who drove there said that they have seen surprisingly much cars (of course, you cannot expect 20000, but they expected (as we, too) some 100 cars per day 

and why is it opened? we have local elections soon (i don't know whether this sunday, or one after this)


----------



## x-type

zezi said:


> @ mati1962c
> Reason for V.Gorica interchange
> AADT on old road
> * Zagreb - V. Gorica about 40 000*
> V. Gorica - Sisak about 11 000


motorway will not help a lot to solve the crowds at Velikogorička, which has huge suburban traffic (at route Velika Gorica - Zagreb and vice versa). long distance traffic (from Sisak) is not small, but still huge crowds will remain


----------



## zezi

x-type said:


> actually, people who drove there said that they have seen surprisingly much cars (of course, you cannot expect 20000, but they expected (as we, too) some 100 cars per day
> 
> and why is it opened? we have local elections soon (i don't know whether this sunday, or one after this)


Lot of cars this Sunday. I guess people were curious!
Also 5 bikes. Not motorcycles. Powered by legs!


----------



## rimorski

Ban.BL said:


> narrow? No it is not heart of Amsterdam there are barely any cyclist there.
> 
> This photo is great
> http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3797/d102povratno008.jpg


There are many cyclists on Krk during the warmer part of the year.


----------



## Total

zezi said:


> Lot of cars this Sunday. I guess people were curious!
> Also 5 bikes. Not motorcycles. Powered by legs!


I planned to go by bike to see new motorway Velka Gorica - Buševec... I wanted to incorporate it in my bike trip and take some photos, i guess there isnt much traffic, is it doable?


----------



## Ban.BL

rimorski said:


> There are many cyclists on Krk during the warmer part of the year.


yes but not that many to need a wider track


----------



## pijanec

zezi said:


> Lot of cars this Sunday. I guess people were curious!
> Also 5 bikes. Not motorcycles. Powered by legs!


Isn't there any control? Once when I tried to cycle on Macelj-Krapina motorway while under construciton motorway security soon escorted me off the road. :lol::lol:


----------



## zezi

pijanec said:


> Isn't there any control? Once when I tried to cycle on Macelj-Krapina motorway while under construciton motorway security soon escorted me off the road. :lol::lol:


Motorway is not busy at all, and it is without a toll!
I dont think there is anyone who is controling the road.


----------



## pijanec

Ban.BL said:


> It has always been like that, it is not some new thing, it was like that in whole Yugoslavia and i think it is better like that than the situation with general speed limit. They are reminding people how fast can they drive. I had situation when i was in Hungary i missed general speed limitation sign at the border and in whole Hungary at least that stretch that i have driven there are no speed limitation signs :bash:
> I was pissed.


It's like that everywhere in Europe. If there is no speed limit sign, general speed limit apply. I think Slovenia made good transformation from Yugoslavian to European system in recent years.

Not sure if it was always like that. For example, main road Macelj-Krapina had a general speed limit few years ago. When they started constructing motorway and they repaved all section, they lowered speed limit to 60 km/h while this high quality road is good for 120+ km/h. And there are barely any houses along the road.

The same happened with road Macelj-Trakoščan. They fixed and repaved road and they put 40 km/h (?!?) speed limit on all section. There are 0 houses along the way with plenty of straight stretches where you can drive very fast. I found this riduculous. :nuts::nuts:


----------



## Ban.BL

I know that, but absence of speed limitation signs in whole country like in Hungary can be frustrating if you have missed sign on the border.


----------



## x-type

pijanec said:


> The same happened with road Macelj-Trakoščan. They fixed and repaved road and they put 40 km/h (?!?) speed limit on all section. There are 0 houses along the way with plenty of straight stretches where you can drive very fast. I found this riduculous. :nuts::nuts:


:? where the hell?


----------



## cross

*A5 (Ploče-Osijek-Budapest)*
*New bridge over the Drava near Osijek*


----------



## cross

05/11/09 
Construction of Dubrovnik motorway section starts 










*DUBROVNIK, May 11 (Hina)* - Contracts on the construction of the 29.6-kilometre Dubrovnik-Doli section of the Zagreb-Dubrovnik motorway and nearby roads were signed on Monday at the future construction site of the motorway hub outside Dubrovnik. 

All the investments cost HRK 3.67 billion, and the construction should be wrapped up within 30 months. 

Prime Minister Ivo Sanader and some other government officials attended today's ceremony of signing the agreements.

http://www.vlada.hr/en/naslovnica/n...radova_na_dionici_dubrovnik_doli_autoceste_a1


----------



## cross

*A9 - Western part of Istrian Y*
*Umag-Pula*

May 2009.



Kanalnik said:


> Y, Kanfanar-Pula





Kanalnik said:


> Y, Buje-Kanfanar


:cheers:


----------



## cross

*A7 - Eastern section of Rijeka bypass, Sveti Kuzam - Križišće*
*& Krk bridge*

May 2009.



ivan_ri said:


> pomalo pomalo... prvo nek se ovo svjetloplavo napravi, plus opatijska/liburnijska obilaznica





meteopehlin said:


> Danas sam bio djir biciklom od Vezice do Uvale Scott.
> 
> Prva fotka kod Hreljina, pogled na trasu buduce autoceste prema Kriziscu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Na Hreljinu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Na Kriziscu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Krcki most


:cheers:


----------



## pijanec

x-type said:


> :? where the hell?


Main road Macelj-Trakoščan ("državna cesta 508"). They limited whole section to embarassing 40 km/h after great reconstruction and it is important road for tourists visiting Trakoščan Castle! On some parts of that road you exceed that speed limit with bicycle or even rollers. :lol:


----------



## x-type

pijanec said:


> Main road Macelj-Trakoščan ("državna cesta 508"). They limited whole section to embarassing 40 km/h after great reconstruction and it is important road for tourists visiting Trakoščan Castle! On some parts of that road you exceed that speed limit with bicycle or even rollers. :lol:


please, go make a fast ride there, maybe we couldn't discuss after it anymore whe you miss some of those curves.


----------



## pijanec

^^I use it all the time. 40 km/h would be appropriate for 2 curves at the begging and some curves at the final end of 8 km stretch. But not for the middle pretty straight part. Why even post speed limit sign? Just leave a general speed limit rule like the rest of the Europe because it is absurd that you can exceed speed limit with your rollers.


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> please, go make a fast ride there, maybe we couldn't discuss after it anymore whe you miss some of those curves.


O_O

hno:hno:hno:


----------



## Manolo_B2

Zagreb-Split motorway tunnels will open tomorrow 



Both tubes of the Sveti Rok and Mala Kapela tunnels on the Zagreb-Split motorway will be open tomorrow (saturday).

The Sveti Rok Tunnel near Lika is 5,687 metres long and goes through Velebit Mountain. One tube of the tunnel was opened in 2003.

The other tunnel - the Mala Kapela Tunnel - goes through Mala Kapela Mountain. One tube of the tunnel was opened in 2005. The other tube is 5,821 metres long.

Both tunnels will be closed to traffic from 10pm today until 10am tomorrow to enable last-minute work to be completed.

Minister of the Sea, Transport and Development Bozidar Kalmeta will officially open both tunnel tubes tomorrow morning.

The two tunnel tubes that will open tomorrow cost 787.5 million kunas or 107 million Euros.

http://www.croatiantimes.com/index.php?id=4137

so they are both open since 2 hours, great! :banana:


----------



## gramercy

cool, albeit i still think croatian highways are a bit too tight

--

i know its off, but does anyone know any details about the Zagreb-Rijeka high-speed rail line?


----------



## Verso

^^ How about asking that in the railway subforum?



Manolo_B2 said:


> Zagreb-Split motorway tunnels will open tomorrow


Today.  So, congratulations, guys! :banana2: Any pictures?


----------



## Alle

Yes photos would be appreciated .

Is the reason for the tunnels merely engineering related or is it because of the natural parks in the area?


----------



## Manolo_B2

there are no photos at the moment, just a video from the croatian news...


----------



## zezi

Alle said:


> Yes photos would be appreciated .
> 
> Is the reason for the tunnels merely engineering related or is it because of the natural parks in the area?


Reasons for tunnels are high mountains. 
Natural parks are not on Motorway route. 

Before this opening, there were only one tube open on both tunnels (two direction traffic - one lane each direction), and in the summer time, there were traffic jams.


Some details about Zageb Rijeka Railway line
http://puo.mzopu.hr/UserDocsImages/Elaborat_0604091.pdf
It is not so high speed - 200 km/h max
It is in croatian - maybe google can help you translate.


----------



## Palance

Some pictures from Istria:

The B8 and B9 and direct surroundings (including the Ucka-pass)
Several pictures from other Istria roads


----------



## bubach_hlubach

Poorly designed motorway and tunnel were sure as hell responsible for the damn crash, right! The rock wall beside the tunnel should have sensed the sucker coming at it while flying at 200 km/h, and should've moved out if his way. Ya know, just like in a cartoon movie.  Thank dear God, he did not cause more deaths or injuries by his careless driving. hno:

:cheers:


----------



## Verso

I think pijanec was replying to x-type and talking about open motorway, not driving 200 km/h in tunnels (at least I hope). I doubt he was trying to say it was a poorly designed motorway. If someone, who already has guts to go 200 km/h, can't do it on a properly designed motorway, he's obviously drunk, asleep (hard to believe though), has a heart attack or whatever. In this particular case, of course it was the tunnel's fault, but as it has to be there, it was his own fault. Going into a tunnel with 200 km/h is insane.



Buddy Holly said:


> I find this sentence funny because in Albanian "pijanec" means drunkard.


In Slovenian too.


----------



## Ban.BL

Buddy Holly said:


> I find this sentence funny because in Albanian "pijanec" means drunkard.


in serbian, coatian also


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

edit


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> I think pijanec was replying to x-type and talking about open motorway,


i think (and hope) that too. i did those 220 at ZG bypass, so straight and good motorway. but anyway, i was really affraid to pass other cars with that speed because they allways seemed to me as changing into my lane.
about this crash - that gap shouldn't be there, but even if there was barrier made like at that itralian tunnel, it wouldn't save them at all neither.


----------



## pijanec

Why are you all turning my words around? I've NEVER said going with 200 km/h thru a tunnel is a smart idea, never said that I drive at that speed or that it is a tunnel's fault for this accident. :weird: It was clearly driver's fault. 

I was only talking about motorway design! speed which is in case of tunnels from 100-120 km/h which is good enough for actual speed of 200 km/h. Sure there is a human factor, traffic, possible environmetal factors and common sense telling us this is stupidity, but road itself does safely allow speeds like that. Every road designer can tell you the same.

If someone would close motorway for traffic in nice sunny weather and give 100 people a chance to drive thru tunnel Sv. Marko with speed of 200 km/h, I bet they will all pass without problem. In perfect conditions this shouldn't be a problem but real life with its dynamic traffic demand to be very cautious when in tunnel.


----------



## Verso

pijanec said:


> never said that I drive at that speed or that it is a tunnel's fault for this accident. :weird:


Had the tunnel not been there, the driver wouldn't've crashed. :lol: I can't imagine driving 200 km/h through a tunnel. Must be terrifying.


----------



## pijanec

^^Depends on the curves inside the tunnel and its lenght, I guess.

I never exceed 120 through tunnels. But once, some 15 years ago, I drove 170 km/h through crappy and curvy Slovenian tunnel. It was really nothing special from driver's point of view.


----------



## x-type

pijanec said:


> ^^Depends on the curves inside the tunnel and its lenght, I guess.


Sveti Marko is not difficult tunnel. it is short, about 250 meters, straught, the only problem could be a little saddle (pass) inside of it.


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

edit


----------



## snupix

There's a thing bothering me - is it forbidden to overpass in a tunnel? If yes (as it says on the sign next to the burned car), why are the road markings in the tunnel allowing it? If it is allowed (as I think it is and act like it is), then why is that sign there?


----------



## x-type

snupix said:


> There's a thing bothering me - is it forbidden to overpass in a tunnel? If yes (as it says on the sign next to the burned car), why are the road markings in the tunnel allowing it? If it is allowed (as I think it is and act like it is), then why is that sign there?


that's a pearl from road equipers :lol: of course there should be sign "forbidden overpassing for cargo vehicles" instead of this one


----------



## Delmat

Verso said:


> Had the tunnel not been there, the driver wouldn't've crashed. :lol: I can't imagine driving 200 km/h through a tunnel. Must be terrifying.


Here is how it looks like. 
(Longfield-Split)






Looks like a wormhole


----------



## gramercy

if someone did that in a swiss tunnel, they would have been castrated on the spot


----------



## Delmat

well this wasn't on the highway and tunnel doesn't have cameras

our most famous race driver was caught by camera driving in tunnel 220+ km/h 
he was fined ofc (something serious it was, can't remember)


----------



## x-type

Delmat said:


> well this wasn't on the highway and tunnel doesn't have cameras
> 
> our most famous race driver was caught by camera driving in tunnel 220+ km/h
> he was fined ofc (something serious it was, can't remember)


it was as soon as Sveti Rok tunnel was opened. there was some guy who did 180 in tunnel and then came Pulić who said that it is unsafe to drive in that way excetp you were a professional driver and said that he could do it faster. of course that media didn't like those his idiotic claims and i don't remember him that much in public after that shit


----------



## pijanec

But are those motorway cameras licensed to be used as a speed measurement devices? In most countries this will not hold in court.


----------



## x-type

pijanec said:


> But are those motorway cameras licensed to be used as a speed measurement devices? In most countries this will not hold in court.


no. those cameras for supervising the traffic i think don't mean anything at the court. they can be helping meaning, but not the main prove


----------



## zezi

x-type said:


> no. those cameras for supervising the traffic i think don't mean anything at the court. they can be helping meaning, but not the main prove


I think this will change in Croatia.
It is under consideration, to change law, so recording from traffic cameras will be recognized as evidence. But not for speed measuring. For overtaking were is not allowed, doing U turns, stopping on forbiden places...


----------



## pijanec

^^But then every camera will need a sign next to it telling people are recorded or else they will be violating personal privacy.


----------



## Verso

Zanovijetalo said:


> Sure that makes sense, but we're in the Balkans so it’s not only the rational when it comes to making such decisions. Bosnia is a complicated place, bypassing it means avoiding (probable) complications.


Croatia looks like a more complicated place actually, because it doesn't even wanna hear anything about such a solution. There's no reason for BIH not to accept passing through Neum or block the motorway in the future. If it blocked it, Croatia would build the Pelješac bridge and drive the traffic away from Neum forever.


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> Croatia looks like a more complicated place actually, because it doesn't even wanna hear anything about such a solution. There's no reason for BIH not to accept passing through Neum or block the motorway in the future. If it blocked it, Croatia would build the Pelješac bridge and drive the traffic away from Neum forever.


there's no reason for Slovenia to block croatian EU access, so it is happening.


----------



## pijanec

^^Slovenia + 3 other countries :nuts:


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> there's no reason for Slovenia to block croatian EU access, so it is happening.


Slovenia might gain something from blocking Croatia (more sea), what can BIH gain?


----------



## Radish2

x-type said:


> there's no reason for Slovenia to block croatian EU access, so it is happening.


they don´t, the construction of the last missing part novo mesto, Ljubljana motorway is already under construction.


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> Slovenia might gain something from blocking Croatia (more sea), what can BIH gain?


it is not EU's problem 



Radish2 said:


> they don´t, the construction of the last missing part novo mesto, Ljubljana motorway is already under construction.


i'd rather say "still", not "allready"


----------



## zezi

According to official Croatian documents and plans A1 will pass trough Neum (BiH). But now there is idea in BiH that thay want another route, and they want us to finance that! 
Although that route would be cheaper, couse of easier terrain, it would be very stupid of Croatia to finance that route.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Maybe they could co-finance it. It's ridiculous that Croatia should pay the full price for a motorway on Bosnian territory, but paying for a part of it might not be a weird idea, if it wasn't for the location: Balkans. I think a motorway to Dubrovnik only accessible via Bosnian territory will be unacceptable to Croats.

However, financing foreign roads is not that weird. The EU does it all the time, also outside the EU, and for instance, the Netherlands co-financed the German A31 because it's also of value for northern Netherlands.


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> However, financing foreign roads is not that weird. The EU does it all the time, also outside the EU, and for instance, the Netherlands co-financed the German A31 because it's also of value for northern Netherlands.


uf, we should finance slovenian motorways 

BIH is angry because HR is playing on sure cards and building a bridge to bypass BIH. so HR has shown that it is definitely not our interest that motorway passes through BIH teritory. just remember all conditions which they were asking for bridge, as we are building Oeresund bridge! and still they were not satisfied. so, we ahve shown that there is no need for us to finance motorway in BIH, and they are pissed off because of that


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> it is not EU's problem


I don't know what you mean.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Maybe they could co-finance it. It's ridiculous that Croatia should pay the full price for a motorway on Bosnian territory, but paying for a part of it might not be a weird idea, if it wasn't for the location: Balkans. I think a motorway to Dubrovnik only accessible via Bosnian territory will be unacceptable to Croats.
> 
> However, financing foreign roads is not that weird. The EU does it all the time, also outside the EU, and for instance, the Netherlands co-financed the German A31 because it's also of value for northern Netherlands.


Of course it isn't weird. You can't expect from Slovenia to fully finance construction of the Rijeka-Trieste motorway, for example. I say, if you want a road, you should pay for it.


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> Of course it isn't weird. You can't expect from Slovenia to fully finance construction of the Rijeka-Trieste motorway, for example. I say, if you want a road, you should pay for it.


i'd die to see your opinion if Graz - Spielfeld, Villach - Karawanken or Monfalcone - Trieste motorways were not built


----------



## Verso

Those motorways are in their countries' interests too; what interest does Slovenia have in building the Rijeka-Trieste motorway?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Verso said:


> Those motorways are in their countries' interests too; what interest does Slovenia have in building the Rijeka-Trieste motorway?


To get through traffic out of the villages? Traffic safety?


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> Those motorways are in their countries' interests too; what interest does Slovenia have in building the Rijeka-Trieste motorway?


the same as Austria in Graz - Spielfeld?


----------



## goxic

pijanec said:


> ^^Slovenia + 3 other countries :nuts:


It is completely off topic but 3 other countries are blocking only one chapter (law) but Slovenia is blocking opening of 12 chapters and closing of 4. All other members are agreed with it. 

About law chapter we can discuss but all others what is Slovenia doing is blackmail. But you will face it till the end of this week. EU is sick of such non-EU Slovenian behavior. You can clearly see it from yesterday EU (Oli Rehn) proposal...

Sorry once again for off topic :bash:


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> To get through traffic out of the villages? Traffic safety?


A few villages are hardly a reason to build a motorway; that way we could have motorways everywhere.



x-type said:


> the same as Austria in Graz - Spielfeld?


That motorway connects the whole eastern half of Austria with the western Balkans, the Rijeka-Trieste motorway would connect a few Slovenian villages. We clearly don't need it.


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> A few villages are hardly a reason to build a motorway; that way we could have motorways everywhere.
> 
> That motorway connects the whole eastern half of Austria with the western Balkans, the Rijeka-Trieste motorway would connect a few Slovenian villages. We clearly don't need it.


Rijeka - Trieste would make the fastest route from southern parts of Balkan to Italy, not to mention that it is one of 2 most important touristic routes to Croatia (and tourism is not that minor thing here)


----------



## x-type

and if Graz - Spielfeld is that important, why doesn't Slovenia finnish its part of that, in your words, important route?


----------



## ivan_ri

Verso said:


> Those motorways are in their countries' interests too; what interest does Slovenia have in building the Rijeka-Trieste motorway?


we have mutual interests in building that road because in near future Trieste's, Koper's and Rijeka's ports are going to act as one in the eastern market to attract more cargo to north Adriatic (because it is a whole week of time savings from the route which goes to the north Europe)


----------



## Fugit

If Croatia started the part of A1 Doli-Dubrovnik so they don't agree on A1 through BiH


----------



## rimorski

Verso said:


> Those motorways are in their countries' interests too; what interest does Slovenia have in building the Rijeka-Trieste motorway?


Well if even you believe it is not in your country's interest to build Rijeka - (Koper) - Trieste Motorway, (probably for fear of growth of Rijeka's port and Zagreb traffic route and generally Croatian economy that could directly "endanger" Slovenia (but tell me how, please?)) than why shouldn't your country build a Chinese wall around it? Who needs all that traffic anyway? :| hno:


----------



## pijanec

ChrisZwolle said:


> Maybe they could co-finance it. It's ridiculous that Croatia should pay the full price for a motorway on Bosnian territory, but paying for a part of it might not be a weird idea, if it wasn't for the location: Balkans.


Strongly agree with you. Here in Balkans they would rather spend millions of euros more just that they would not need to cooperate or build something useful for both sides. Instead of spending those additional millions for something useful elsewhere a lot of money go wasted in Balkans.


----------



## pijanec

ChrisZwolle said:


> To get through traffic out of the villages? Traffic safety?


1 month ago I drove here. I was all alone the whole time between the border and motorway. There was almost no traffic in opposite direction. You only pass thru few villages. Design speed of the road is also very low so no problem with traffic safety either.


----------



## Ban.BL

x-type said:


> which? the main reason is traveling time. and it could be just worse if you add 2 border crossings. not to mention additional authorizations for lorries whiule passing through BIH


Reasons ecology, economy, money for example, and which are the reasons to build trough mountains over Dubrovnik? Politics and ego problems of some Croatians. 



x-type said:


> actually, we are not talking about passing through Neum area, but whole motorway south from Ploče. BIH insists tha motorway enters to BIH there and continues to Montenegro. and they expect HR government to give the money for construction :lol:
> 
> this what you're saying would be the best way through Neum


This is not true. BiH expects nothing from Croatia, someone from BiH and Croatia mentioned that BiH could give this motorway to Croatia to build and keep. It is not like the Croatia would give something for free.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Maybe they could co-finance it. *It's ridiculous that Croatia should pay the full price for a motorway on Bosnian territory*, but paying for a part of it might not be a weird idea, if it wasn't for the location: Balkans. I think a motorway to Dubrovnik only accessible via Bosnian territory will be unacceptable to Croats.
> 
> However, financing foreign roads is not that weird. The EU does it all the time, also outside the EU, and for instance, the Netherlands co-financed the German A31 because it's also of value for northern Netherlands.


Off course it is ridiculous and no one suggest that. Someone from BiH made proposal to Croatia to build motorway trough BiH, but also they would have rights to take toll money.



x-type said:


> uf, we should finance slovenian motorways
> 
> BIH is angry because HR is playing on sure cards and building a bridge to bypass BIH. so HR has shown that it is definitely not our interest that motorway passes through BIH teritory. just remember all conditions which they were asking for bridge, as we are building Oeresund bridge! and still they were not satisfied. so, we ahve shown that there is no need for us to finance motorway in BIH, and they are pissed off because of that


again not true,you are making your statement based on opinion of some Zagreb magazines and Internet sites. Reality is different. Hardly anyone cares about these things in BiH, 70% of BiH don´t care.



pijanec said:


> Here in Balkans they would rather spend millions of euros more just that they would not need to cooperate or build something useful for both sides. Instead of spending those additional millions for something useful elsewhere a lot of money go wasted in Balkans.


strongly agree :cheers:


----------



## P.C.Dolabella

ChrisZwolle said:


> My idea:


Your idea is very close to that one in ONLY legal and official plan for motorway to Dubrovnik. It's fixed in National Spatial strategy and regional Spatial plan of Dubrovnik - Neretva county, two documents that in Croatia has strength of low. Only difference is that there isn't only one exit from Motorway to Neum but two (close to the both border lines and connected with the local roads so border check points, located close to the exits from (and of course out) of Motorway could also cover border crossings on local road.


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> Rijeka - Trieste would make the fastest route from southern parts of Balkan to Italy, not to mention that it is one of 2 most important touristic routes to Croatia (and tourism is not that minor thing here)


I was talking about what it connects in Slovenia (not much).



x-type said:


> and if Graz - Spielfeld is that important, why doesn't Slovenia finnish its part of that, in your words, important route?


It's not as important to Slovenia as it is to Croatia and Austria (and even some other countries), but you should ask the Slovenian transport ministry.



rimorski said:


> Well if even you believe it is not in your country's interest to build Rijeka - (Koper) - Trieste Motorway, (probably for fear of growth of Rijeka's port and Zagreb traffic route and generally Croatian economy that could directly "endanger" Slovenia (but tell me how, please?)) than why shouldn't your country build a Chinese wall around it? Who needs all that traffic anyway? :| hno:


I don't know what you're talking about.


----------



## Zanovijetalo

pijanec said:


> ^^Slovenia + 3 other countries :nuts:


What, Netherlands want a part of Croatian sea as well?


----------



## x-type

Ban.BL said:


> Reasons ecology, economy, money for example, and which are the reasons to build trough mountains over Dubrovnik? Politics and ego problems of some Croatians.
> 
> 
> This is not true. BiH expects nothing from Croatia, someone from BiH and Croatia mentioned that BiH could give this motorway to Croatia to build and keep. It is not like the Croatia would give something for free.
> 
> 
> Off course it is ridiculous and no one suggest that. Someone from BiH made proposal to Croatia to build motorway trough BiH, but also they would have rights to take toll money.


but it is not in croatian interest. if we would buid motorway at BIH ground and have money from it, why wouldn't we build at our own ground and make our land more interesting and developed instead of neighbour's? you know that one: God has created his beard before others' (gosh, this one sounds so stupid in english  ) why would we debvelop BIH economy when we have a plenty of space to develop our?



Verso said:


> I was talking about what it connects in Slovenia (not much).


khm, aren't we talking about solidarity between neighbouring countries? you have shown exact slovenian opinion and face in this sentence.

It's not as important to Slovenia as it is to Croatia and Austria (and even some other countries), but you should ask the Slovenian transport ministry.
[/QUOTE]
this is just a poor excuse.
and nobody is baliming Verso or pijanec, but general slovenian politics of destroying everything what worths something in neighbouring countries without choosing any means.


----------



## Ban.BL

x-type said:


> but it is not in croatian interest. if we would buid motorway at BIH ground and have money from it, why wouldn't we build at our own ground and make our land more interesting and developed instead of neighbour's? you know that one: God has created his beard before others' (gosh, this one sounds so stupid in english  ) why would we debvelop BIH economy when we have a plenty of space to develop our?


Because it is cheaper to build on BiH ground, so Croatia can earn more money. It is also ecologically and touristic better and more acceptable on BiH ground for Croatia. The only reason why you would be against it is politics, coz no other reason is meaningful. 
And It is not like the motorway would be 100km from planed location trough Croatia, it would be 5km away. 



x-type said:


> but general slovenian politics of destroying everything what worths something in neighbouring countries without choosing any means.


This sentence could be You are not that different.


----------



## snupix

Ban.BL said:


> Because it is cheaper to build on BiH ground, so Croatia can earn more money. It is also ecologically and touristic better and more acceptable on BiH ground for Croatia. The only reason why you would be against it is politics, coz no other reason is meaningful.


Do you actually undestand what you're writing? Croatian citizens giving their tax money to build a motorway in another country, when they can build it on their own soil and benefit from it? Why would anyone want to do that? It's not that the terrain in Croatia is much more difficult than that one where we have already built motorways anyway...


----------



## Ban.BL

snupix said:


> Do you actually undestand what you're writing? Croatian citizens giving their tax money to build a motorway in another country, when they can build it on their own soil and benefit from it? Would anyone be so stupid to do that? It's not that the terrain in Croatia is much more difficult than that one where we have already built motorways anyway...


Yes i understand, do you understand what do i mean?
Croatian citizen would not lose money on this motorway. All toll money would go in Croatia´s budget. But on the other hand they will suffer from ecological consequences. Also the Croatia´s territory is to narrow and it is bad investment to destroy it with motorway, also motorway would be too expensive, Croatia can save money and invest it in other projects. But you all know that. I personally don´t care what will be and i understand your point of view. But i also think that building this motorway should be cooperation between two countries, coz both would benefit from this project. But i think it is not possible coz no one in Croatia is bold enough to go in this project, coz they would loose on next election 100%. People don´t want that, the politics is in every spore of society.


----------



## Majestic

I think it's clear enough that building motorway through BiH lies deeply in Croatian interest moneywise. It's not only shorter, but also much cheaper. I can't even imagine bypassing BiH with all the bridges, tunnels and overpasses on Croatian soil, it would be totally absurd. 

So it's not like Croatia is some kind of samaritan funding a motorway for BiH (talking about costs, it's still just 4-5km stratch), because vast majority of the profits will be on the Croatian side. Of course, I can see no reason for BiH to block this investment unless Croats are not willing to pay a dime for it. They can see their profits on the horizon as well. If not a share of the tolls collected, then at least a direct connection to European motorway system. That's why it's in both of their interests to cooperate and build this stretch at once.


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> khm, aren't we talking about solidarity between neighbouring countries?


Yes, be solidary with us and cofinance it. Look at the Netherlands.


----------



## Zanovijetalo

NL and D case, well, that’s what friends do. Are SLO and HR friends? Thanks to folks like you, Verso, we are not.



Majestic said:


> I think it's clear enough that building motorway through BiH lies deeply in Croatian interest moneywise.


Majestic and others, corridor to Dubrovnik was not, is not, and will never be just a matter of how much invested, what gained. As I said BiH is an unusual country with complicated present and unpredictable future. And not to mention this solution where the motorway would go all through Serb Republic in Dubrovnik background - what if they break away from BiH? Dubrovnik cut off the modern motorway again? No, thanks. The very south of Croatia deserves a solid, undisturbed connection with the rest of the country.


----------



## Ban.BL

Zanovijetalo said:


> NL and D case, well, that’s what friends do. Are SLO and HR friends? Thanks to folks like you, Verso, we are not.
> 
> 
> 
> Majestic and others, corridor to Dubrovnik was not, is not, and will never be just a matter of how much invested, what gained. As I said BiH is an unusual country with complicated present and unpredictable future. And not to mention this solution where the motorway would go all through Serb Republic in Dubrovnik background - what if they break away from BiH? Dubrovnik cut off the modern motorway again? No, thanks. The very south of Croatia deserves a solid, undisturbed connection with the rest of the country.


So if Serb Republic brake away Croats will not be able to travel trough RS:bash:


----------



## Zanovijetalo

You really use that hammer too much.

As for that travel through S.R. thing, who knows, but why taking a risk.


----------



## zezi

Majestic said:


> So it's not like Croatia is some kind of samaritan funding a motorway for BiH (talking about costs, it's still just 4-5km stratch), because vast majority of the profits will be on the Croatian side.


It is not 5 km strech. We are talking about 50 km now.
AADT is too small for enyone to benefit from toll. Investment will never be payed off from toll. So it is expected that Croatia finance motorway.

But there are others aspects (tourism and economy) which benefit from that motorway. And it only logical that Croatia invest money in Croatia, even if it is more costly!


----------



## Ban.BL

zezi said:


> It is not 5 km strech. We are talking about 50 km now.
> AADT is too small for enyone to benefit from toll. Investment will never be payed off from toll. So it is expected that Croatia finance motorway.
> 
> But there are others aspects (tourism and economy) which benefit from that motorway. And it only logical that Croatia invest money in Croatia, even if it is more costly!


If you look touristic aspect than Croatia will benefit if motorway goes trough BiH, coz motorway 2km from the coast is not helping tourism it is harming it.


----------



## Ban.BL

Zanovijetalo said:


> You really use that hammer too much.
> 
> As for that travel through S.R. thing, who knows, but why taking a risk.


Well every normal person knows, so if you don´t than i am sorry.


----------



## Verso

Zanovijetalo said:


> NL and D case, well, that’s what friends do. Are SLO and HR friends? Thanks to folks like you, Verso, we are not.


You really lack self-criticism.


----------



## Majestic

zezi said:


> It is not 5 km strech. We are talking about 50 km now.
> AADT is too small for enyone to benefit from toll. Investment will never be payed off from toll. So it is expected that Croatia finance motorway.
> 
> But there are others aspects (tourism and economy) which benefit from that motorway. And it only logical that Croatia invest money in Croatia, even if it is more costly!


Let me get this straight. So Bosnians don't even want to hear about Croatian version of this motorway even when fully funded by the latter? What about the Bosnian 50 km project? Are they willing to co-finance it and if so in what proportions?


----------



## zezi

Majestic said:


> Let me get this straight. So Bosnians don't even want to hear about Croatian version of this motorway even when fully funded by the latter? What about the Bosnian 50 km project? Are they willing to co-finance it and if so in what proportions?


1. Yes.
2. No. They are willing to give us right to built and collect toll, without participating in finace. But since there is no enough traffic it is just losing money!


----------



## Majestic

I see. Was the variant through Brijesta and Ston ever been considered?


----------



## zezi

Over Pelješac bridge will be motorroad (2x2 - 100 km/h). Not Motorway or expressway ( 130 km/h). And it will be free of toll. Then again in Doli, A1 Motorway (with toll) continues to Dubrovnik.
So far there was no oficial suggestion that A1 Motorway goes over Pelješac bridge


----------



## Ban.BL

Majestic said:


> Let me get this straight. So Bosnians don't even want to hear about Croatian version of this motorway even when fully funded by the latter? What about the Bosnian 50 km project? Are they willing to co-finance it and if so in what proportions?


1. No. BiH don´t care about this route because it is in Croatia and BiH doesn´t have anything to do with it. 
2. No one knows that, coz no one has ever discussed it.


----------



## x-type

Ban.BL said:


> Because it is cheaper to build on BiH ground, so Croatia can earn more money. It is also ecologically and touristic better and more acceptable on BiH ground for Croatia. The only reason why you would be against it is politics, coz no other reason is meaningful.
> And It is not like the motorway would be 100km from planed location trough Croatia, it would be 5km away.


if BIH would enter EU at the same time as HR, this statement stands and is absolutely right. do you think this is gonna happen really? and that border crossings are just piece of cake?


Ban.BL said:


> This sentence could be You are not that different.


well, not really. we will make A10 (connection to BIH) much before BIH even starts to build anything of that southern motorway. plus - you wanna create new international route. Slovenia is blocking existing and allready established international routes


----------



## Ban.BL

I believe this project is not being build to last 2 years, but for next 50 years so if there is difference in BiH and Croatia´s EU entry in 5 years it is not that big problem. I am sure that if there were Yugoslavia still existing motorway would go trough Bosnia coz almost all rasons are saying it is the only feasible and logical option.

When i said that Croatia is not that different i meant more generally.


----------



## ivan_ri

if we were in yugoslavia, Zagreb-Split motorway would not be built at all, and we would not have this discussion...

if BiH wants this motorway so bad, nobody is stoping you to build it. why would we have to build motorways trough BiH. it doesn't make sense.


----------



## adam75

Hi

Next month I am planing to travel ( by car) to Montenegro,Albania, and Greece.
My question is up to how far the motorway A1 goes down south? Up to where is completed?
I would really appreciate any info about this detail.

Many thanks

Adam


----------



## x-type

adam75 said:


> Hi
> 
> Next month I am planing to travel ( by car) to Montenegro,Albania, and Greece.
> My question is up to how far the motorway A1 goes down south? Up to where is completed?
> I would really appreciate any info about this detail.
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> Adam


up to Ravča (northeast from Vrgorac). from there you have some 30 km of not the best state road, and then you reach expressway which leads you down to Ploče at D8


----------



## Ban.BL

ivan_ri said:


> if we were in yugoslavia, Zagreb-Split motorway would not be built at all, and we would not have this discussion...
> 
> if BiH wants this motorway so bad, nobody is stoping you to build it. why would we have to build motorways trough BiH. it doesn't make sense.


you really don´t want to see the point.
I am talking from Croatian perspective not BiH. 
Croatia needs that motorway more than BiH, BiH really doesn´t need it at all.
YU was more like reference as example of the same state. And i am sure that if there was YU motorway would be finish until Ulcinj.


----------



## zezi

adam75 said:


> Hi
> 
> Next month I am planing to travel ( by car) to Montenegro,Albania, and Greece.
> My question is up to how far the motorway A1 goes down south? Up to where is completed?
> I would really appreciate any info about this detail.
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> Adam





x-type said:


> up to Ravča (northeast from Vrgorac). from there you have some 30 km of not the best state road, and then you reach expressway which leads you down to Ploče at D8


Map of A1 - most southern part
Ravča is on this map marked with red


----------



## x-type

Ban.BL said:


> Croatia needs that motorway more than BiH, BiH really doesn´t need it at all.


then just leave us to make it in our way if it is not important to you


----------



## Ban.BL

x-type said:


> then just leave us to make it in our way if it is not important to you


very democratic. 
You are always talking about bad Slovenia and their intention to destroy Croatian tourism etc. and you find yourself invited to talk about it, and when someone talks about Croatia´s plans and motorways what are you doing, saying:"just leave us to make it in our way". hno:


----------



## x-type

Ban.BL said:


> very democratic.
> You are always talking about bad Slovenia and their intention to destroy Croatian tourism etc. and you find yourself invited to talk about it, and when someone talks about Croatia´s plans and motorways what are you doing, saying:"just leave us to make it in our way". hno:


it is not the same. let me quote you: BIH doesn't care where would motorway go through because it is not important to BIH. on the other hand - Slovenian motorways are extremely important for Croatia and we care about them


----------



## Ban.BL

It is not the same, because you say that. The principles are the same you interfere, I interfere 
And after all this is forum i can say my opinion do i?


----------



## ivan_ri

Ban.BL said:


> you really don´t want to see the point.
> I am talking from Croatian perspective not BiH.
> Croatia needs that motorway more than BiH, BiH really doesn´t need it at all.
> YU was more like reference as example of the same state. And i am sure that if there was YU motorway would be finish until Ulcinj.


i don't understand you at all... 

if croatia needs the motorway to Dubrovnik, and has a way to build it over Croatian soil, why does BiH interfer in Croatian plans.

for you it is ok to pay the motorway which will go through BiH and raise quality of life in BiH rather than to do the same thing in own country.

if you care so much about Adriatic-Ionian motorway you should build it with your money... but you are trying to undermine croatian motorway to Dubrovnik now when the documents are already signed and the work is in progress. where was this initiative 3 months ago or couple of years ago.

i think that there never was serious intentions in giving Croatia this motorway, it is just another theatrical politic game from BiH side


----------



## Ban.BL

ivan_ri said:


> i don't understand you at all...
> 
> if croatia needs the motorway to Dubrovnik, and has a way to build it over Croatian soil, why does BiH interfer in Croatian plans.
> 
> for you it is ok to pay the motorway which will go through BiH and raise quality of life in BiH rather than to do the same thing in own country.
> 
> if you care so much about Adriatic-Ionian motorway you should build it with your money... but you are trying to undermine croatian motorway to Dubrovnik now when the documents are already signed and the work is in progress. where was this initiative 3 months ago or couple of years ago.
> 
> i think that there never was serious intentions in giving Croatia this motorway, it is just another theatrical politic game from BiH side


BiH doesn´t interfere, I am not BiH. 
Motorway will raise quality of life in Croatia as well, and in this area in Herzegovina i don´t think no one lives there it is empty land, so no one is left to have better quality of life. And if you build motorway trough Croatia it will lower quality of life in many aspects and if it would go trough BiH it would only raise quality of life in Croatia. 

Do you think this solution that we will have now is the sane solution? With two motorways and one expressway in 10km strip?! And for the traffic existing road is enough. 
Wouldn´t be better to have normal conversation between two sides and determine common interest in this project?! It is after all international project. 

Just look how immature and stupid this looks like


----------



## ivan_ri

Ban.BL said:


> BiH doesn´t interfere, I am not BiH.
> Motorway will raise quality of life in Croatia as well, and in this area in Herzegovina i don´t think no one lives there it is empty land, so no one is left to have better quality of life. And if you build motorway trough Croatia it will lower quality of life in many aspects and if it would go trough BiH it would only raise quality of life in Croatia.
> 
> Do you think this solution that we will have now is the sane solution? With two motorways and one expressway in 10km strip?! And for the traffic existing road is enough.
> *Wouldn´t be better to have normal conversation between two sides and determine common interest in this project?!* It is after all international project.
> 
> Just look how immature and stupid this looks like
> 
> http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/5707/unbenanntkdz.png


i belive we tried to have normal conversation about peljesac bridge...that came out really nicely. BiH tried to put pressure on Croatia probably because of Ploce port.

yes it is international project, but nobody can force croatia to finance and build motorway in BiH. if you think that this motorway would be cost-effective you should find private companies to finance the motorway (like montenegro did with it's Bar-Boljare motorway), not croatian goverment.


----------



## snupix

Ban.BL said:


> BiH doesn´t interfere, I am not BiH.
> Motorway will raise quality of life in Croatia as well, and in this area in Herzegovina i don´t think no one lives there it is empty land, so no one is left to have better quality of life. And if you build motorway trough Croatia it will lower quality of life in many aspects and if it would go trough BiH it would only raise quality of life in Croatia.
> 
> Do you think this solution that we will have now is the sane solution? With two motorways and one expressway in 10km strip?! And for the traffic existing road is enough.
> Wouldn´t be better to have normal conversation between two sides and determine common interest in this project?! It is after all international project.
> 
> Just look how immature and stupid this looks like


This surely won't be the case. Motorway will go over Pelješac bridge through Croatia down to Dubrovnik. There, it may enter BiH for a very short part (but IMHO it should go directly to MNE to avoid customs for the few kms through BiH).

And it's not true that the motorway would lower the quality of life in Croatia, just the opposite.

But anyway, The section in Croatia is already being built so this conversation is pointless...


----------



## snupix

What could be built, is the thing Chris mentioned (section through Neum). But I think it would be pointless to build a motorway through Neum now that the bridge is U/C.


----------



## Zanovijetalo

snupix said:


> Motorway will go over Pelješac bridge through Croatia down to Dubrovnik. ... IMHO it should go directly to MNE to avoid customs for the few kms through BiH).


Hope things will end up like this.


----------



## Ban.BL

ivan_ri said:


> *i belive we tried to have normal conversation about peljesac bridge...that came out really nicely.* BiH tried to put pressure on Croatia probably because of Ploce port.
> 
> yes it is international project, but nobody can force croatia to finance and build motorway in BiH. if you think that this motorway would be cost-effective you should find private companies to finance the motorway (like montenegro did with it's Bar-Boljare motorway), not croatian goverment.


This is not true. BiH and Croatia come to an agreement about Pelješac bridge. You missed that? 
And yet again you dont get the point.


----------



## Ban.BL

snupix said:


> This surely won't be the case. Motorway will go over Pelješac bridge through Croatia down to Dubrovnik. There, it may enter BiH for a very short part (but IMHO it should go directly to MNE to avoid customs for the few kms through BiH).
> 
> And it's not true that the motorway would lower the quality of life in Croatia, just the opposite.
> 
> But anyway, The section in Croatia is already being built so this conversation is pointless...


So A1 motorway will go trough Pelješac and avoid Neum, that is new for me. 

It will lower the quality of life n compare if it would be built in BiH. 

3rd If they build motorway without entering in BiH territory after DU, what than? Where will motorway continue? How can this be part of Adriatic-Ionian motorway? 
This attitude is wrong, you are doing the similar thing as Slovenia destroying bridges with neighbors.


----------



## Ban.BL

Zanovijetalo said:


> Hope things will end up like this.


Who would you harm? Coz i know your reasoning can not be pure. 
I am sure you think you will harm Serbs and BiH. hno:


----------



## ivan_ri

Ban.BL said:


> This is not true. BiH and Croatia come to an agreement about Pelješac bridge. You missed that?
> And yet again you dont get the point.


no, you didn't get the point...
BiH was never active obout Adriatic-Ionian motorway and now it wants Croatia to finance the motorway. this came out just couple of weeks after the start of construction of Dubrovnik-Doli section of A1. and where were this "helpfull" proposition couple of months or years ago?? this is just another political move of Sarajevo. you waited for us to make all necessary studies and start the construction to come out with this... that isn't constructive nor neighbourly. 

we could make this section of AI motorway together, but BiH never showed any interest in it. until couple of weeks ago. i assume BiH is scared it will lose this part of Adriatic-Ionian motorway because the corridor isn't official pan-euro corridor yet and all changes are possible

here are current pan-euro corridors :cheers:


----------



## DanMs

Interesting!!

Is there a separate thread about Adriatic-Ionian motorway? What main regions and cities does it pass through in Croatia?


----------



## ivan_ri

^^I think there isn't any thread about it.

Route of Adriatic-Ionian motorway in Croatia passes through almost all costal regions. it passes near Rijeka, Zadar, Šibenik and Split. south of Split, near Ploče port, it should enter BiH. but regardless to this BiH section we are building our own motorway to Dubrovnik over Croatian soil and our neigbours are not happy about that.


----------



## DanMs

I understand now. And i agree with you guys to skip Bosnia. They are not stable and you don't want to be dependent on that. I think the extra costs are justified.

I wish Albania would proceed at a faster pace. But we are more occupied with Durres-Kukes which will link Albania with Kosovo. Recently though the government has allocated 23 million euros. To build Shkoder - Han i Hotit(border point) which is part of the Adriatic-Ionian motorway.










I'm not sure where the other countries stand.


----------



## keber

snupix said:


> But anyway, The section in Croatia is already being built so this conversation is pointless...


Any pictures?


----------



## snupix

keber said:


> Any pictures?


Not that I know, you may ask on the Croatian forum, our reporters from Dubrovnik might have some.


----------



## snupix

Ban.BL said:


> So A1 motorway will go trough Pelješac and avoid Neum, that is new for me.
> 
> It will lower the quality of life n compare if it would be built in BiH.
> 
> 3rd If they build motorway without entering in BiH territory after DU, what than? Where will motorway continue? How can this be part of Adriatic-Ionian motorway?
> This attitude is wrong, you are doing the similar thing as Slovenia destroying bridges with neighbors.


I'm talking about bypassing BiH because it has no interest in the motorway, and it is much better to lower the number of border crossings by 2. If BiH wants the motorway, no problem, let it go through BiH in that part, but then BiH should finance it. As simple as that. This has nothing in common with what Slovenia is doing to Croatia. Let me remind you - we built all the motorways towards all our neighbours - A2, A3, A4, A5 will be built as soon as the motorway on the Bosnian side will be built, A12 is also planned, as well as A10 near Ploče (which is a few km long, but still). 

BL, you are just provoking and you know it!


----------



## Ban.BL

ivan_ri said:


> ^^I think there isn't any thread about it.
> 
> Route of Adriatic-Ionian motorway in Croatia passes through almost all costal regions. it passes near Rijeka, Zadar, Šibenik and Split. south of Split, near Ploče port, it should enter BiH. but regardless to this BiH section we are building our own motorway to Dubrovnik over Croatian soil *and our neigbours are not happy about that*.


You wish it was like that, but it isn´t.


----------



## Ban.BL

snupix said:


> I'm talking about bypassing BiH because it has no interest in the motorway, and it is much better to lower the number of border crossings by 2. If BiH wants the motorway, no problem, let it go through BiH in that part, but then BiH should finance it. As simple as that. This has nothing in common with what Slovenia is doing to Croatia. Let me remind you - we built all the motorways towards all our neighbours - A2, A3, A4, A5 will be built as soon as the motorway on the Bosnian side will be built, A12 is also planned, as well as A10 near Ploče (which is a few km long, but still).
> 
> BL, you are just provoking and you know it!


I am not provoking, i am just surprised (or maybe not) that you are so nationalistic about everything. It is impossible that you have issues with everyone surrounding you. In these posts here you can see big issues with BiH and no one here has any. But you are glad if there are any, and this is clear from your posts here. 
Croatia´s attitude has lot of in common with Slovenia, they don´t care about you and your motorway same as you are happy to bypass BiH. But there is a difference, Slovenia don´t car, but you are happy with that plan. And then comes Albanian to give you support stating that BiH is too unstable :lol:

ANd you didn´t answer my questions where will motorway go if it bypass BiH?


----------



## dubart

Ban.BL, how come you suddenly care so much of BiH?


----------



## zezi

Ban.BL said:


> It is impossible that you have issues with everyone surrounding you.


Slovenia want corridor to open sea - our sea
BiH wants also corridor to open sea + Ploče port - also ours
Serbia has still part of our land under occupation 
Montenegro also want our part of sea - but we have agree to go to international court!

With Italy and Hungary we have no issues!
Ex Yu countries have lots of unsolved border problems, but puting blame on Croatia over it, it is just mean.


Sorry for OT


----------



## Manolo_B2

this is not a thread about politics, so move this discussion in the right thread!

but fact is, a motorway, called DALMATINA, should go trough Dalmatia, ant not Bosnia Hercegovina... :lol:


----------



## ivan_ri

Ban.BL said:


> You wish it was like that, but it isn´t.


than what's the deal with this last demands?? if we are already building this motorway, and the one in BiH isn't even explored yet, why should we wait with connection of Dubrovnik to the national motorway network. we can not allow to depand on our neigbours when it comes to traffic connections if it is not necessary.


----------



## Verso

DanMs said:


> Is there a separate thread about Adriatic-Ionian motorway?


There is, but it's closed.


----------



## Zanovijetalo

Ban.BL said:


> Who would you harm? Coz i know your reasoning can not be pure.
> I am sure you think you will harm Serbs and BiH. hno:


You know nothing. Get a life already.


----------



## bubach_hlubach

Manolo_B2 said:


> this is not a thread about politics, so move this discussion in the right thread!
> 
> but fact is, a motorway, called *DALMATINA, should go trough Dalmatia, ant not Bosnia Hercegovina*... :lol:


That surely explains it. Amen to that!  kay:

:cheers:


----------



## snupix

Ban.BL said:


> I am not provoking, i am just surprised (or maybe not) that you are so nationalistic about everything. It is impossible that you have issues with everyone surrounding you. In these posts here you can see big issues with BiH and no one here has any. But you are glad if there are any, and this is clear from your posts here.
> Croatia´s attitude has lot of in common with Slovenia, they don´t care about you and your motorway same as you are happy to bypass BiH. But there is a difference, Slovenia don´t car, but you are happy with that plan. And then comes Albanian to give you support stating that BiH is too unstable :lol:
> 
> ANd you didn´t answer my questions where will motorway go if it bypass BiH?


Of course I am happy if I can come to Dubrovnik without crossing any border crossing and having issues with that! Isn't that normal? Call me a nationalist if that's your definition of it.

But, you didn't answer to my statement - we built (and are building) all the motorways to our neighbours, which is just the opposite Slovenia does. And I would be happy if Croatia built 200 motorways towards BiH. But I am also happy to come to Dubrovnik over Croatian soil, especially if I pay for the construction of the motorway! Isn't that normal? What are you trying to prove, after all? You're just trying to bash Croatia, it seems.

Where will it go through Croatia? I'm not a civil engineer nor a planner, but for the part until Dubrovnik there is enough space (and it is U/C, anyway, google a bit and you will find all the plans and maps), and for the part south of Dubrovnik, they may build a few tunnels. And as I said, I don't care, after Dubrovnik A1 can enter BiH, but border crossings should be regulated - for example just at exits, becaus eit would be stupid to have to cross two border crossings within 20km. It would lower the competetion od the AI motorway compared to the one in Serbia - the less crossings, the better.


----------



## Verso

Manolo_B2 said:


> but fact is, a motorway, called DALMATINA, should go trough Dalmatia, ant not Bosnia Hercegovina... :lol:


'Dalmatina' also runs between Zagreb and Karlovac, not just through Dalmatia.


----------



## ivan_ri

Verso said:


> 'Dalmatina' also runs between Zagreb and Karlovac, not just through Dalmatia.


because there is no Dalamtia betwin Zagreb and Karlovac. there is still Dalmatia in the part where BiH would like to make motorway :cheers:


----------



## Ban.BL

dubart said:


> Ban.BL, how come you suddenly care so much of BiH?


It will go trough RS :cheers:


zezi said:


> Slovenia want corridor to open sea - our sea
> BiH wants also corridor to open sea + Ploče port - also ours
> Serbia has still part of our land under occupation
> Montenegro also want our part of sea - but we have agree to go to international court!
> 
> With Italy and Hungary we have no issues!
> Ex Yu countries have lots of unsolved border problems, but puting blame on Croatia over it, it is just mean.
> Sorry for OT


BiH wants corridor, and who exactly? Haris Silajdzic is not BiH, few minor Sarajevo politician are not BiH.
BiH doesn´t want Ploce harbor, BiH wants better conditions. 
This part about Serbia holding part of land under occupation i will not comment.


Manolo_B2 said:


> this is not a thread about politics, so move this discussion in the right thread!
> 
> but fact is, a motorway, called DALMATINA, should go trough Dalmatia, ant not Bosnia Hercegovina... :lol:


great argument :cheers:



ivan_ri said:


> than what's the deal with this last demands?? if we are already building this motorway, and the one in BiH isn't even explored yet, why should we wait with connection of Dubrovnik to the national motorway network. we can not allow to depand on our neigbours when it comes to traffic connections if it is not necessary.


I am not saying that you shouldn´t build motorway the way you want it. I am just saying that for Croatia building motorway together with BiH on BiH soil is better solution in the long run for sure.


----------



## Ban.BL

snupix said:


> Of course I am happy if I can come to Dubrovnik without crossing any border crossing and having issues with that! Isn't that normal? Call me a nationalist if that's your definition of it.
> 
> But, you didn't answer to my statement - we built (and are building) all the motorways to our neighbours, which is just the opposite Slovenia does. And I would be happy if Croatia built 200 motorways towards BiH. But I am also happy to come to Dubrovnik over Croatian soil, especially if I pay for the construction of the motorway! Isn't that normal? What are you trying to prove, after all? You're just trying to bash Croatia, it seems.
> 
> Where will it go through Croatia? I'm not a civil engineer nor a planner, but for the part until Dubrovnik there is enough space (and it is U/C, anyway, google a bit and you will find all the plans and maps), and for the part south of Dubrovnik, they may build a few tunnels. And as I said, I don't care, after Dubrovnik A1 can enter BiH, but border crossings should be regulated - for example just at exits, becaus eit would be stupid to have to cross two border crossings within 20km. It would lower the competetion od the AI motorway compared to the one in Serbia - the less crossings, the better.


I am saying that nationalistic is happiness if you bypass BiH southern of Dubrovnik. That s nationalism. I am not trying to bash Croatia i am trying to make my argument that building motorway trough BiH is maybe better solution for HR. 

And again you want to bypass BiH southern of DU with no reason and that is mean. Slovenia is not mean they just look only their interests. And what motorway are you building toward neighbor? 

So you didn´t again answere my question, how will you bypass BiH southern of DU and why would you do that?


----------



## snupix

Ban.BL said:


> And again you want to bypass BiH southern of DU with no reason and that is mean.


Actually, from there on I don't care, but I said it might be better to go straight to MNE, since BiH really won't profit from a few km's, and it would just be a border control more, which is problematic for trucks etc. Nothing mean, if BiH sees its interest in the motorway from Dubrovnik going through BiH, no problem (but without Croatia financing it).



Ban.BL said:


> Slovenia is not mean they just look only their interests.


That's what they say, but I don't think it's okay. 



Ban.BL said:


> And what motorway are you building toward neighbor?


For example, A5 south of Sredanci. We are just waiting for your side to complete your part. A3 is built up to the Serbian border, A2, A3 and A7 (as well as A9 U/C) to Slovenia, A5 is U/C to Hungary (also waiting for them), and A12 is planned when you reach Croatian border from BL. As well as A10.



Ban.BL said:


> So you didn´t again answere my question, how will you bypass BiH southern of DU and why would you do that?


I said, possibly tunnels. But, again, after Dubrovnik the motorway IMHO can enter BiH - I just think it would be a bad thing for trucks on the corridor, as we want the corridor to be a competition to the one in Serbia.


----------



## Ban.BL

Well you said it is better to go directly to MNE, and i ask you how it is possible to do that? It is not. As much as you want to bypass it is not doable. 

"For example, A5 south of Sredanci. We are just waiting for your side to complete your part. A3 is built up to the Serbian border, A2, A3 and A7 (as well as A9 U/C) to Slovenia, A5 is U/C to Hungary (also waiting for them), and A12 is planned when you reach Croatian border from BL. As well as A10."
A5 is not being build it is future tense, same as the Slovenian motorway to Croatia, they also have plans. Same goes for A10 and A12. 
A3 is built up not because of Serbia, but because it is in Croatia´s interest an building this stretch was not that expensive already one lane was finished in Yu times. 
All other motorways toward Slovenia and Hungary is purely Croatia´s interest because of the tourism and not out of good heart.


----------



## ivan_ri

Ban.BL said:


> I am not saying that you shouldn´t build motorway the way you want it. I am just saying that for Croatia building motorway together with BiH on BiH soil is better solution in the long run for sure.


it's a bit late for that... it took years to plan this route. this discussion should have been done in 2005. because motorways aren't built out of nice words. it takes serious efort to make the documentation for one :cheers:


----------



## x-type

A5 will certanly be built to BIH border as soon as there will be some signs of progress fron BIH side. the bridge will be built joined by HR and BIH side, so if there is nothing happening, both sides are guilty, not only one.
A14 from Okučani to Stara Gradiška - this year first plans were presented, so something is moving there too. i agree it should be built asap. 

on the other hand, BIH could really upgrade its border crossings. Izačić and Orašje are ok, but other, especially Gradiška and Bosanski Brod are disasterous


----------



## Ban.BL

Again for all future tense, Slovenian motorway to Macelj will also surely be built and all other. 
And as for A14 Croatia has promised to build bridge over Sava in Gradiska, but it is now sure that motorway on our side will be built and will wait for the bridge. 
As for border crossing, it is not possible to build anything else in Gradiska and Brod coz you know that the crossings are in the city, especially in Gradiska. The solution could be joint control on Croatian side, same as there is joint control on Bosnian border crossing Izacic, because there is enough place on Croatian side. 
Also Gradiska will get new b. crossing on the new place, as soon as motorway and bridge are built.


----------



## DanMs

Verso said:


> There is, but it's closed.


Why closed?

Adriatic-Ionian is the motorway of the century. Each country needs to invest its resources in building it. :cheers:


----------



## Verso

DanMs said:


> Why closed?


Because it's placed in the defunct "Eastern Europe / Balkans" subforum, although I remember opening it in the "Urban Affairs" subforum.


----------



## Ban.BL

DanMs said:


> Why closed?
> 
> Adriatic-Ionian is the *motorway of the century*. Each country needs to invest its resources in building it. :cheers:


Maybe for Albania and MNE, but not for the others


----------



## X236K

Same question as in Slovenian forum: how about the connection between Koper and A9? Any realistic plan? I've just noticed that A9 is being extended in some parts, is the whole road going to be extended? How about the Mirna viadukt?


----------



## P.C.Dolabella

X236K said:


> I've just noticed that A9 is being extended in some parts, is the whole road going to be extended? How about the Mirna viadukt?


Yes, whole road is under extension to four lane. From Pula to Kanfanar is planed to be finished before summer next year and from Kanfanar to Umag (and Slovenian border) a year later (2011.).
After that in the late 2011 is planed to start with construction (second lanes) of Mirna and Lim viaducts


----------



## BosniaHerzegovina

x-type said:


> A5 will certanly be built to BIH border as soon as there will be some signs of progress fron BIH side. the bridge will be built joined by HR and BIH side, so if there is nothing happening, both sides are guilty, not only one.
> A14 from Okučani to Stara Gradiška - this year first plans were presented, so something is moving there too. i agree it should be built asap.
> 
> on the other hand, BIH could really upgrade its border crossings. Izačić and Orašje are ok, but other, especially Gradiška and Bosanski Brod are disasterous


Pa iduce godine ce se graditi do granice sa HR.


----------



## Palance

The Mirna-bridge:


----------



## Ban.BL

^^will they build hard shoulder?


----------



## Euroboyy

Where can I find map of Croatian highway network with toll-booths?


----------



## x-type

Euroboyy said:


> Where can I find map of Croatian highway network with toll-booths?


http://www.hac.hr/

you have option for english language. page is made in flash, so i must describe you - go on motorways, then choose a motorway which you want to observe and down you have menu "objects" where you can choose "interchanges" for exits or "toll stations" for tolled exits or toll barriers. it worths only for motorway under HAC. for A2 there is not such a nice map, neither as for A6, A8 and A9


----------



## zezi

Also you can find map here
http://www.huka.hr/Mreza-autocesta/
http://www.huka.hr/images/mreza_autocesta/hr/karta.pdf


----------



## KHS

*Rječina bridge progress*

Thanks to gorgoroth


















:cheers:


----------



## Mateusz

Good to see plans looking ahead, Any more revelations than A12, A13 ?


----------



## x-type

Mateusz said:


> Any more revelations than A12, A13 ?


easy with that. the things i have seen: they have put infromation table (with facts about investitor, building company, project bla bla bla...) at place where future exit Bjelovar south will be and i saw something what could be route line near Stari Glog, probably for geodetical measures


----------



## x-type

here is that information table on D43 where future exit Bjelovar south will be. here will be the end of next section of A13 and 6 km long connector road to Bjelovar. it is situated here


----------



## pijanec

x-type said:


> here will be the end of next section of A13 and 6 km long connector road to Bjelovar.


Again so far away from the city. hno: Croatia should start building motorways closer to cities so they can also be used by local population not only by transit.


----------



## x-type

IMO they should have put route north from the city. but i shouldn't complain because i live in southern part of the city


----------



## bubach_hlubach

edit.


----------



## Mateusz

Well you have example of close motorway in Rijeka, now they build second bypass there !


----------



## Verso

^ No, they're widening the existing bypass (which isn't a motorway).


----------



## Foolish Farmer

Ban.BL said:


> Maybe for Albania and MNE, but not for the others


It's for Greece also important, otherwise they would not build the via egnatia until the albanian border and invest in albanian parts of the adriatic-ionian highway.

For MNE the Motorway to Belgrade is important. That's it.


----------



## Ban.BL

For Greece it is important to develop ferry connection.


----------



## Timon91

B9 SLO/HR border - Rovinj

Ok, it isn't all B9, but also some minor roads. The majority is B9 though.

The Slovene route 11 continues as route 21 in Croatia after the border. Via route 200 and route 5002 you end up at the beginning of the B9. This road is part of the Istrian Y, and is currently being upgraded to a 2×2 motorway. I don't know if there are any plans to connect the Slovene H5 with the Croatian A/B9, because it would provide a much quicker connection between Western Europe and Istria. However, the terrain is difficult and the Slovenes don't really seem to be willing.

1. Just after the border.










2. The small pictogram next to Pula says "A9", while it is still B9.










3. 2+1










4. The other border crossing in this area is to the right here.










5. 










6. The beginning of the B9.










7. Rovinj 63 km.










8. Stuck behind a caravan 










9. Exit Buje/Buzet ahead. 










10. Nice cutting.










11. Some mowing going on.










12. The Mirna bridge ahead.










13. There we go. Beautiful bridge!










14. On the bridge. Will they build a second bridge to make this road 2×2?










15. 2+1 uphill, shortly after the bridge.










16. You have to pay toll for this bridge.... 










17. ...at this station. A one-way ticket for a car is 14 kuna (€2).










18. The prices.










19. 










20. Beautiful view to the coast.










21. This viaduct seems to be suitable for 2×2 already.










22. Rovinj 38 km.










23. We can overtake again 










24. Some ground works.










25. Viaduct for 2×2 in a distance.










26. Another viaduct suitable for 2×2










27. Exit Medaki. There aren't that many exits on this road.










28. There were some ground works going on, so it was a bit dusty.










29. The A8 joins in and the road becomes 2×2. Exit Rovinj ahead, so I don't know if the 2×2 road continues all the way to Pula.










30. Exit Rovinj.










31. Left for Rovinj, and a monument for someone who was killed here.










32. Road to Rovinj.










33.










That's it, hope you liked it! I'll post the pics of the other direction soon


----------



## Zanovijetalo

So you stopped by in paradise too – thought you were only in SLO... 

You just drove here and back or visited any town? Nice pics btw, and yes, the windshield could use some sponge down…


----------



## Timon91

Yeah, we visited Rovinj for a couple of hours before we drove back. It was an excellent day to do this, while it was completely cloudless, but it wasn't too hot yet (30 degrees). In the following days the temperature rose back to 38 degrees, but I was back home by then :lol:


----------



## nh1la

Which roads get a B-road classification in Croatia?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

B = Brza cesta = expressway if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## Mateusz

Old croatian motorway numbers ?


----------



## x-type

yes, but that "B" marking lives only at B8 and B9. A6 used to be an expressway before, but it was never B6, just as 4 km stretch of A2 which is expressway - it is not B2. A7 also isn't B7.


@Mateusz: yes, old numbers. actually, only D4 is old here, D7 still exists. D4 is today A3. this is very rare - new direction sign with old road numbers.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

SiCG? I have never seen that before... I thought it was SCG for a while, between YU and SRB.


----------



## Mateusz

Serbia i Crna Gora ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yeah, obviously, but country codes cannot have lowercase letters or more than 3 letters.


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yeah, obviously, but country codes cannot have lowercase letters or more than 3 letters.


There are two exceptions though - Sovereign Military Order of Malta (SMOM) (not Malta (M)) and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) (North Korea) , although I've also seen KP (probably for 'Korea Pyongyang'); I think there's no official oval code for North Korea actually. Nice pics, Timon!


----------



## Ban.BL

SCG was correct


----------



## Timon91

B9 Rovinj - HR/SLO border

The way back, after having stayed in Rovinj for a few hours. 

1. 10% hill (still in Rovinj)










2. Leaving Rovinj/Rovigno.










3. The road to the B9.










4. We follow Poreč.










5. Entering B9. It's still 2×2 here...










6. ... but it narrows to 2×1 very quickly afterwards.










7. 










8. On a viaduct.










9. Exit Medaki ahead.










10. Nice cutting again 










11. 










12. There is a new gas station ahead. We finished our Kuna's over there 










13. Weird that they don't sign Koper/Capodistria yet.










14. Stuck behind a camper.










15. 










16. We have to pay again.










17. 2+1 after the tollbooth.










18. Approaching the Mirna bridge.










19. Beautiful :cheers:










20. 










21. Entering the bridge.










22. On the bridge.










23. Finally, Koper 










24. Nice village. Is that Brtonigla?










25. A few caravans.










26. We stayed behind this Dutch red car until the border.










27. Koper 29 km. No bilingual signage over here, btw.










28. Exit Umag, this is where the B9 begins now.










29. So that's also where we leave the B9.










30. 










31. Leaving the B9.










32. Overhead signs.










33. Turning left for Koper.










34. We filled up and had coffee here earlier that day.










35. 










36. Entering the border valley.










That's it for Croatia, hope you liked it :cheers:


----------



## bozata90

Mateusz said:


>


@Chris: They put this sign in 2003, when the country did not have an official code yet. So they just decided to put a reasonable abbreviation on the place of the YU oval...
(Edit: I am mistaken with the year... )


----------



## Verso

bozata90 said:


> @Chris: They put this sign in 2006q when the country did not have an official code yet. So they just decided to put a reasonable abbreviation on the place of the YU oval...


Nonsense. "Serbia and Montenegro" was formed already in 2003. In 2006 Montenegro already declared independence. Nice pics, Timon. :cheers:


----------



## x-type

bozata90 said:


> @Chris: They put this sign in 2006q when the country did not have an official code yet. So they just decided to put a reasonable abbreviation on the place of the YU oval...


that section was built in 1999, so that sign probably dates from that year. where did you get 2006?


----------



## Palance

I am sure that there was no "Beograd" to be found on the signs here in 1999. I have been here in 2001 (from Zagreb to Lipovac and them to Osijek), and there was no indication for Serbia at all.
As far as I know there are pictures in the internet where there are new signs with "Beograd" AND an YU-oval, where YU was later replaces with SiCG and now with SRB.


----------



## Zanovijetalo

Very good photostory, Timon, and yes, the nice village looks like Brtonigla.



Palance said:


> I am sure that there was no "Beograd" to be found on the signs here in 1999. I have been here in 2001 (from Zagreb to Lipovac and them to Osijek), and there was no indication for Serbia at all.


True, Croatian border and then _Terra orientales incognita_


----------



## ivan_ri

Rijeka bypass,Rječina bridge

http://www.novilist.hr/Vijesti/Rijeka/trsat-sve-blizi-katarini.aspx



ivan_ri said:


>





misipile said:


> "ovakav most nikada nismo gradili, ističe Bolf, dodajući kako se sličan most teško može pronaći ne samo u Hrvatskoj, već i u Europi."
> 
> da, tesko ga je naci, prolaze jedan kraj drugog na razmaku manjem od 2m
> 
> nego, evo i druga fotografija iz clanka:


----------



## x-type

Palance said:


> I am sure that there was no "Beograd" to be found on the signs here in 1999. I have been here in 2001 (from Zagreb to Lipovac and them to Osijek), and there was no indication for Serbia at all.
> As far as I know there are pictures in the internet where there are new signs with "Beograd" AND an YU-oval, where YU was later replaces with SiCG and now with SRB.


you are wrong. signs with Beograd appeared at 1999 when new signage was introduced, the one at the photo is an example.


----------



## Verso

"Serbia and Montenegro" in 1999? :rofl:


----------



## Mateusz

I am sure it was Yugoslavia back then


----------



## Palance

x-type said:


> you are wrong. signs with Beograd appeared at 1999 when new signage was introduced, the one at the photo is an example.


Perhaps, but not on the A3. Which didn't exist in 2000, the A3 was ending somewhere east of Slavonski Brod. From Zupanja to Lipovac there was just the old road to the border. There was only signage to Lipovac, and at the last junction before the border there was not place stated at all in direction Serbia.


----------



## Palance

I even found an article which describes the return of Beograd on Croatian signage - and it is from 2003!

See here: https://xs4.b92.net/info/komentari.php?nav_id=81692


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> "Serbia and Montenegro" in 1999? :rofl:


it had YU in elipse, and in 2003 it was replaced by this funny SiCG.



Palance said:


> Perhaps, but not on the A3. Which didn't exist in 2000, the A3 was ending somewhere east of Slavonski Brod. From Zupanja to Lipovac there was just the old road to the border. There was only signage to Lipovac, and at the last junction before the border there was not place stated at all in direction Serbia.


A3 was ending in Oprisavci till 1999, when it was extended to Velika Kopanica, and that section allready had new signalization.


----------



## Palance

If so, why have seen only Lipovac in 2000 all the way from Zagreb to the border? (see also the article I posted above).


----------



## x-type

because new signalization was put on that small new part between Oprisavci and Velika Kopanica (practicly, only at exit Velika Kopanica because there are no other exits at that section), and rest of motorway still had old signs (they started to change them in 2001 while they were renovating whole old part of motorway)


----------



## Ban.BL

x-type said:


> you are wrong. signs with Beograd *appeared at 1999 *when new signage was introduced, the one at the photo is an example.


and where?


----------



## x-type

Ban.BL said:


> and where?


at exit Velika Kopanica. it was first exit with new signage at A3.


----------



## Falusi

*A4 H border - A3*

Croatian A4 connects Zagreb with Hungary.
Date of pics: 18/07/2009










1. First exit after the border. You can see the only problem with the border crossing on the croatian side. A cyclist on the hghway! Because there is only one way from the border crossing, the motorway so the pedestrians and cyclists must enter the motorway...









2. Zagreb is still 95km far away.









3. Approaching the first cestarina (toll booth).









4. The cestarina.









5. Price list.









6. After the cestarina.









7. Very empty.









8. 









9.









10. Croatian matrix sign.









11. Exit 2, Čakovec.









12. Most Drava II.









13. The Drava from the bridge.









14. Newer style croatian matrix signs.









15. Aproaching exit 4, Varaždin.









16. At the exit. All croatian exits, rest areas are fuly illuminated.









17. Zagreb is still 66km far away.









18.









19. Wingding section from here.









20. 









21. Approaching the first tunnel.









22. Speed limit is 100km/h at tunnels.









23. Tunel Vrtlinovec (628m/522m).









24. After the tunnel.









25. Tunel Hrastovec (498m/523m)









26. After the tunnel.









27. A short flat section.









28. At exit 6, Novi Marof.









29. Some wingding bridge.









30. 









31. Aproaching exit 7, Breznički Hum.









32. 100km/h from here, because of bad condition. You cannot see it on the surface but it shakes a bit.









33. At the exit 7.









34. Sign says kolona... but where?









35. x-type's home is 60km far away, Zagreb is only the half of it.









36. Kolona... (2km long)









37. 









38. A bit later.









39. Only 1km yet... It took 45 minutes to go trough this 2km long jam.









40. Aproaching exit 10, Sveta Helena.









41. 









42. Traffic is bigger, the reason: free motorway.









43. Zoomed.









44. Approaching exit 12, Ivanja Reka.









45. At the exit.









46. Interchange with A3.









47. Merging with A3.


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

edit


----------



## RipleyLV

Good pictures! I like your arrows on overhead signs.


----------



## Verso

Great pics!


----------



## KHS

Falusi said:


> 1. First exit after the border. You can see the only problem with the border crossing on the croatian side. A cyclist on the hghway! Because there is only one way from the border crossing, the motorway so the pedestrians and cyclists must enter the motorway...


:lol: :nuts: hno:

I had no idea something like this is possible


----------



## x-type

great report! (un)fortunately, road looks much better at photos than it is in reality.



Falusi said:


> 16. At the exit. All croatian exits, rest areas are fuly illuminated.


actually, there is one unlit - exit 2 at A1, Jastrebarsko 


Falusi said:


> 32. 100km/h from here, because of bad condition. You cannot see it on the surface but it shakes a bit.


not a bit, but a lot! that few 100 of meters in exit Komin is disaster. actually, A4 is currently the worst HR motorway considering the quality of asphalt. it is allready old and needs reconstruction, especially between Komin and Kraljevečki Novaki, and some viaducts between Varaždin and Breznički Hum could get a cure of renovation, too.


Falusi said:


> 42. Traffic is bigger, the reason: free motorway.


this section always have much traffic because it carries traffic from Zagreb's satelite cities


Falusi said:


> 44. Approaching exit 11, Kraljevečki Novaki.



this is actually knot Ivanja Reka allready (exit to Zagreb east and merging with A3). exit Kraljevečki Novaki is 3 km before it 



KHS said:


> :lol: :nuts: hno:
> 
> I had no idea something like this is possible


yeah, it's really weird, but after stupidity which they've made (closing old border crossing for passenger traffic) it is normal. fortunately, they've opened old border crossing for passenger traffic, but only H and HR citizens can use it, and only in summer season. absolutely stupid!


----------



## Falusi

Thanks all.



x-type said:


> this is actually knot Ivanja Reka allready (exit to Zagreb east and merging with A3). exit Kraljevečki Novaki is 3 km before it


Oops, really  I passed on a row...



x-type said:


> great report! (un)fortunately, road looks much better at photos than it is in reality.
> (...)
> not a bit, but a lot! that few 100 of meters in exit Komin is disaster. actually, A4 is currently the worst HR motorway considering the quality of asphalt. it is allready old and needs reconstruction, especially between Komin and Kraljevečki Novaki, and some viaducts between Varaždin and Breznički Hum could get a cure of renovation, too.


But this A4 is much better than the austrian A4


----------



## Verso

^ But much worse than the Slovenian A4. 

Btw, when you come to the border crossing by bicycle, don't they fine you for driving on motorway?


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> Btw, when you come to the border crossing by bicycle, don't they fine you for driving on motorway?


good question. i wonder where did he enter motorway in Hungary! probably at roundabout between Letenya and old border crossing, there he entered M70, passed intersection M70-M7  and approached border crossing. so that would make some 3 km on H motorways and 1,5 on HR, cca 5 km :nuts:


----------



## ivan_ri

Rijeka bypass, Rječina bridge almost done :cheers:


----------



## Falusi

*A3 Ivanja Reka (A4) - Lučko (A1)*

I was only on a small section of Zagreb bypass.
Date of pics: 18/07/2009










1. Merging with A3.









2. On the Most Sava (1060m).









3. Still 407km to split...









4. Construction of the A11.









5. Reconstruction on my side. Really narrow, really dangerous.









6. Approaching exit 4, Lučko.









7. Turned to A1.









8. Three levels.









9. Traffic jam...









10. Jam caused by the closure of the inner lane an by the cestarina...


----------



## Verso

1. Why is there no sign for Maribor at Lučko? I know there are from direction Karlovac.
2. Lidl should translate that in Croatian.
3. Is Jadranska avenija a motorroad? (or what are those signs there?)


----------



## Lankosher

How far down south A1 reaches?


----------



## panda80

igorlan said:


> How far down south A1 reaches?


A1 is finnished till Ravca and a new section, to ploce, will be finnished by the end of this year.


----------



## Mateusz

So A12 near Vrbovec exists right ?


----------



## KHS

Verso said:


> 1. Why is there no sign for Maribor at Lučko? I know there are from direction Karlovac.


Don't know. :dunno: I guess Ljubljana is enough.




Verso said:


> 2. Lidl should translate that in Croatian.


There are billboards in foreign language all over Croatia. Looks like they are fighting for every tourist.




Verso said:


> 3. Is Jadranska avenija a motorroad? (or what are those signs there?)


I think that speed limit is 110 km/h but I'm not sure.


----------



## Verso

^ Ok, thanks.  But I really think Maribor should be up there. At Ivanja Reka is a bit early, but Lučko is the main junction by Zagreb, and the joint route with Ljubljana is only for another 5 km, whereas Krapina is too small for intl. traffic.


----------



## Palance

I haven't seen any billboards in foreign language in Croatia last May. Are those only in German or also on other (and if so: which) languages?


----------



## x-type

Palance said:


> I haven't seen any billboards in foreign language in Croatia last May. Are those only in German or also on other (and if so: which) languages?


i think i saw some in czech (and/or slovak) and slovenian. i know there are spoken commercials in italian, german, english, czech, hungarian, slovenian, but who the hell looks at billboards?!


----------



## KHS

Thanks to NikolaZGB

*A1 Ravča - Bisko 12.8.2009.*
































































































































*Cijela galerija:*
                                                          
Free Image Hosting by ImageBam.com

:cheers:


----------



## KHS

Thanks to NikolaZGB


*Ploče - Karamatići:*
                                        
Free Image Hosting by ImageBam.com

:cheers:


----------



## KHS

---


----------



## Falusi

*A1 A3 - Odmorište Dobra*

Date of pics: 18/07/2009 (Saturday)
So you can see a heavy season traffic on A1.










1. The Naplatna postaja Zagreb-Lučko (toll booth).









2. The price list. 









3. Just after the toll booth. A litlle jam...









4. The new Naplatna postaja Demerje in the background.









5. Our speed was between 20km/h and 80km/h...









6. Approaching exit 3, Karlovac.









7. The traffic was better from there.









8. Vijadukt Drežnik (2485m).









9. Vijadukt Velika Jelša (207m // 167m).









10. Vijadukt Katušin (161m). Speed limit is 100km/h from here.









11. Approaching Tunel Sveti Marko (280m).









12. On the Most Dobra (546m).









13. The Viajdukt Dobra (376m) in the background.









14. At the Odmorište (rest area) Vukova Gorica.









15. 









16. Approaching exit 5, Bosiljevo 1.









17. Speed limit is 100km/h due to the volume of traffic.









18. At the exit.









19. Split is still 326km far away.









20. Approaching exit 6, Bosiljevo 2.









21.









22. Road is widening.









23. The arrows turned upside down.









23. Going left.









24. Right??? But Split is in the other direction!









25. Uhh, now in the good direction. 









26. 









27. Split is 323km far way.









28. Traffic is lower now.









29.









30. First zeleni most on our way.









31. Approaching Odmorište (rest area) Dobra. Taking a break there.









From the rest area the weather was bad, very bad. Matrix signs sayed speed limit 60km/h and 80km/h but sometimes it was easy to do 100-120km/h except some slowpoke tried to overtake with 70km/h... :bash:


----------



## Verso

AWESOME photos, everyone! Very beautiful landscape!


----------



## Palance

Perfect! Keep going on!


----------



## x-type

Falusi, your reports are fantastic!  what was your final point?

and those Nikola's photos are pure art!


----------



## Falusi

My destination was Omiš. I will post some pictures about national roads near Omiš if the roads are ontopic here.


----------



## shpirtkosova

Before I ever visited Croatia, I never imagined Croatia the way it is, with its beautiful and high quality roads and motorways, beautiful landscapes, women and ofcourse I never ever imagined it being sooo big! I thought it was never close to as big as Serbia, then I looked and a map and thought to myself "hmmm OK thats interesting!". Croats have everything to be proud of, yes their state is in deep debt but at least you lead good lives in a good infrastructure.


----------



## bubach_hlubach

^^ Shpirtkosova, Croatia is less indebted than quite a few other eastern European countries (Latvia, Estonia, Slovenia etc) not to mention those in western Europe, their avarage debt is like 200% of their national GDP's :nuts:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt Thank you for your kind comments, though. 

==================

I truly enjoyed staring lol at those fabulous road pictures. Thanks a bunch Nikola and Falusi. :bow:

:cheers:


----------



## H123Laci

I checked the toll of the Gorican (H/Cro border) - Ravca (temporary end of A1) section:

its 567km and 226HRK (32 euro - return trip is 64 euro) for a car which is 0,4HRK/km (6 cent/km), its quite expensive... :nuts:

btw:
the alignment of the A1 continuation is not too uptodate, it goes through the BIH se corridor on the map:

http://www.hac.hr/index.php?task=aut


----------



## Ban.BL

Palance said:


> I haven't seen any billboards in foreign language in Croatia last May. Are those only in German or also on other (and if so: which) languages?


I saw in german, english, czech and serbian, or was that bosnian, or croatian


----------



## Ban.BL

beautiful
http://i31.tinypic.com/2dvuae.jpg


----------



## KHS

We even had Czech political campaign going on here...
There were billboards of Topolanek, Gandalovič, Langer and Vodražka from ODS.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I saw Tmobile and Vodafone billboards in Croatia in English yesterday.


----------



## Zanovijetalo

^You are in Croatia?

Yes, there are tourist-targeting billboards in foreign languages, mostly in English, some in German, Czech. Radio ads, traffic info and news are broadcasted in more languages during the high season.


----------



## Palance

Tourists should learn Croatian in the first place so that those billboards are not needed. :nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

You can't expect someone from, say, Germany, Belgium or the UK to learn every local language in Europe before going on vacation. That's why we have English 

According to your statement, I should've learned Spanish, French, German, Slovenian, Danish, Czech and Swedish for my vacations in the past two years :nuts:


----------



## Palance

At least you could learn some words (that is what I try to do for every country I will visit). 

Of course I was joking, since I speak Croatian :banana:


----------



## goxic

*EuroTest - Restareas - Austria and Croatia on top*

Once back from a trip, there is usually plenty to talk about. This was also the case with ADAC's experts who travelled back and forth across Europe. Not only did they experience rest and relaxation in beautiful country settings, they also came across dirty, neglected asphalt deserts without any kind of facilities whatsoever. Negative examples were primarily found in the Czech Republic, Spain and Slovakia where there were either no toilets provided or where the toilets provided were badly damaged and dirty. Emergency phones or video surveillance were nowhere to be seen. The motorway rest areas in the Czech Republic were pitch dark at night. The rest areas in Spain were often nothing more than desolate car parks. Toilets were found in Zabaldika only, and on the rare occasion when picnic tables were provided, these were few and far between. The benches provided everywhere were sometimes located very close to the road. The rest areas in Slovenia, Holland and Belgium were only slightly better. The toilets were the focus of criticism in Slovenia where hygiene was extremely lacking and toilets were poorly maintained. To top it off, there was nowhere for users to wash their hands. Holland and Belgium were found to be fairly similar. The inspectors were pleased to find well-kept and clean grass/planted areas, but were disappointed by the lack of toilets and this was the reason for the low ratings achieved by these two countries.

Italy, Germany, Norway and Denmark were the countries that presented a very mixed picture. Italy is once again home to the last-place facility, i.e. Castagnolasca at Deiva Marina, between Livorno - Genoa. On the other hand, Val di Sona near Peschiera to the south of Lake Garda is an Italian facility that was given a rating of Very good. Whilst inspectors found very well-kept facilities with picnic tables and children's playgrounds located in wonderful settings, they also came across motorway rest areas that should be avoided.

With 20 facilities, Germany is the country with the most rest areas in this test - and surprisingly ranks low in the mid-field ratings. The outdoor facilities here were usually well-kept and there were enough picnic tables provided. However, every second toilet was found to be dirty. And in the same number of cases, the toilets for the disabled did not live up to their name because they failed to meet the needs of people with disabilities. There were also considerable shortcomings with regard to subjective safety: Only the Dätgen site was well-lit at night, Binshof and Sperbes were just about acceptable, but then all lights literally go out. That meant that the few emergency phones provided were also impossible to find in the dark.

Norway received top marks for its facilities for the disabled and its sanitary installations. However, cleanliness was not up to scratch. With the exception of Lillehammer, all the motorway rest areas were more or less poorly lit. Ratings aside, our inspectors were completely captivated: "In terms of setting, Norway had the most beautiful motorway rest areas in the test," they noted. "Where else is it possible to have a picnic at the beginning of May overlooking a semi-frozen lake but with air temperatures of 24 degrees?" It is also possible to picnic in Denmark and, although the view may not be quite so spectacular, there were also sufficient picnic tables provided in well-kept, clean green areas. The toilets, however, were not always clean and, just like in Germany, Denmark's motorway maintenance units have to contend with graffiti and vandalism. But Denmark's motorway rest areas also failed to provide emergency phones and video surveillance.

Now to the countries which our inspectors found to offer good or very good relaxation: France, Austria, Switzerland, Sweden, Hungary, *and finally the tiny country of Croatia as the best in its class.* The advantage of the French motorway rest areas was the spacious outdoor facilities which they provided with plenty of grass/planted areas as well as fitness and playing equipment. One remarkable (because rare) feature was that all the facilities provided emergency phones. Unfortunately, the toilets were not always clean and this lowered the rating for some of the facilities inspected. Austria is home to this year's winner, Gaishorn, and to second-place Lanschütz. These are model facilities, a fact that should be taken literally: Asfinag, the operator of Austria's motorway and national road network, plans to refurbish around 300 old facilities by the year 2015. The benefits of such a measure were made more than clear by the ratings. The five motorway rest areas already refurbished all received ratings of Very good in this test. The other five "old" facilities were no longer able to keep pace here.

The picture found in Switzerland was largely positive. The Swiss sites merely need to improve their facilities for the disabled. This was quite a different matter in Sweden where the motorway rest areas were found to have the best facilities for the disabled of all the countries inspected. But that's not all, Sweden's sites were also found to have the best sanitary facilities. On top of that, they even offered toilet-waste disposal and water supply facilities for camper vans - a rare feature. The experts found next-to-no shortcomings at Hungary's motorway rest areas. *The facilities offered were impressive in almost all respects and were only surpassed by the good facilities found in Croatia. This small country at the Adriatic Sea must be complimented for the high standard found at the facilities inspected. This is an indication that suitable infrastructure measures are being implemented in response to the growth in tourism in this country. *

SOURCE: EuroTest


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's quite a limited test though. There are thousands of rest areas in Europe, and they only test like 60 of them. 

Toll road rest areas always tend to be better. It also matters if you test some small rest area without services or staff, or some bigass services plaza.


----------



## Timon91

Yesterday I saw on the news that Dutch rest areas without a gas station are often quite bad (no toilets - dirty toilets; unsafe; not well maintained; etc.). I agree, the rest areas that I've seen in other countries tend to be much better.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A3-A2 Bregana (SLO/HR) - Zagreb - Macelj (HR/SLO)*

_Click on the title to view the full set_

A drive through Croatia, from the Bergana border crossing west of Zagreb, via Zagreb north past Krapina to the Macelj border crossing.

route:









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----------



## x-type

i agree with Chris, this comparison of rest areas is absolutely not giving the real picture. i wonder why didn't have test rest areas at A3 which are horrible. and they are again spitting on Italy, while i find their rest areas very good.


----------



## RipleyLV

Nice pics


----------



## x-type

btw, i can see some old signs there between Bregana and Zagreb (pics 2 and 5). and i've been also always wondering why that section of A3 has so weird font, different from other signs in HR


----------



## Verso

What a stupid survey. They go to the Slovenian rest areas Zima and Studenec, which aren't even meant to be good in the first place. They can be happy they found a toilet at all, because there are plenty of good rest areas in Slovenia anyway, particularly toilets are normal, with plenty of soap.


----------



## x-type

of course it is stupid! i don't know haow could they like so much Lički Osik while it even doesn't have a shop, bar nor gas station :?:
btw, where are those 2 slovenian which were tested?


----------



## Verso

Zima is between Celje and Maribor, and already a sign tells you it doesn't even have water, so just keep driving, if you want it. Studenec is between Postojna and interchange A1×H4, and it's the same. Though, now that I think of it, I think every rest area should have at least toilet and (drinking) water (with soap), everyone needs that.

Great pics, Chris.  Didn't some forumers say there are now also signs for Austria (A) on A2? I don't see any.


----------



## Palance

ChrisZwolle said:


> *A3-A2 Bergana (SLO/HR) - Zagreb - Macelj (HR/SLO)*


It's Bregana, not Bergana


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Video: A2 Zagreb - Macelj*

A drive from Zagreb to past Krapina.

Watch in HD on Youtube or below:


----------



## x-type

actually, the section from Zaprešić to Zabok is older than 1997, i remember traveling on it in 1994 or 1995, it was brand new. it was extended to Sv. Križ Začretje in 1997. nice video!


----------



## Sponsor

Interesting solution in 0.51 s - new smooth surface on 2 lanes and crappy old one on emergency lane.


----------



## keber

That older section probably needs repavement.

I remember this section being constructed already in 1989.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

x-type said:


> actually, the section from Zaprešić to Zabok is older than 1997, i remember traveling on it in 1994 or 1995, it was brand new. it was extended to Sv. Križ Začretje in 1997. nice video!





> I remember this section being constructed already in 1989.


Then wikipedia is wrong. I checked the German and English wikis for dates. 



keber said:


> That older section probably needs repavement.


It had a lot of patches, but it wasn't very bumpy. Why is there a huge mall in the middle of nowhere near Sveti Križ Začretje?


----------



## x-type

keber said:


> I remember this section being constructed already in 1989.


i'm not sure. in that period probably 2way expressway from knot Jankomir to Zaprešić was built (upgraded into motorway some 5 years ago)


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> It had a lot of patches, but it wasn't very bumpy. Why is there a huge mall in the middle of nowhere near Sveti Križ Začretje?


A2 is not bumpy, but has those line pitch (is it said so in english? catran?) patches till Začretje.
they have started to repave some sections this year (for instance around Zabok)

mall - that should be an outlet at Zagreb perifery, but they've gone little bit too far imo. it should be an competition to outlet mall near Sveta Helena (at A4, eastern suburbia of Zagreb). but they are building some huge thing near toll station Zaprešić (entrance to A2) so i guess it will kill this one in Začretje. but it is cute (designed in style of fairy tale) so maybe that could do well for it.


----------



## x-type

edit: keber is probably right because HR wiki says that Zaprešić - Zabok was opened in 1991, and i have found that expressway Jankomir - Zaprešić was opened in 1980


----------



## H123Laci

nope. your name is Ovidi*u* Georgescu...


----------



## ChrisZwolle

x-type said:


> you didn't before and i liked your music choice.


Yeah, but others didn't and I kinda got tired of all those cheesy comments about the music choice...


----------



## Mateusz

When idea of A12 and A13 came to life ? It seems fairly new project


----------



## x-type

Mateusz said:


> When idea of A12 and A13 came to life ? It seems fairly new project


idea of expressway on that route lives for some 15 years. first 9 km section of expressway (Sv. Helena - Luka) was built in 2001 (if i remember well), and extension from Luka to Gradec in 2007 (again i don't remember exactly).
this year they made an idea of making full profiled motorway at that route


----------



## Lankosher

*Cilipi - Dubrovnik - Jadranska Magistrala*

Watch in HD !


----------



## Falusi

*Road 6142* A1 Blato na cetini - unknown road 
*Unknown road*
*Road 6165* unknown road - main road 8

Date of pics: 18/07/2009










1. 









2. 









3. 









4. 









5. 









6. 









7. 









8. 









9. 









10. Turning left to the unknown road.









11. 









12. 









13. 









14. 









15. 









16. Really narrow.









17.









18.









19.









20. 









21. Turning left to road 6165.









22. 









23. 









24. Uhh.









25.









26.









27. 









28. 









29. U-turn.









30. 









31. 









32. 









33. 









34. 









35. 









36. 









37.









38. 









39.









40. 









41.









42.


----------



## panda80

Very nice landscape and really nice, technical road to drive on.That kind of roads really show who is a true driver or not.


----------



## bubach_hlubach

That road is a real trip. :nuts: 

It was nice to see something more natural for a change, though. Thanks. kay:

:cheers:


----------



## KHS

This road looks like shit! 
When are they going to do something about this?

It's a really hard terrain but they can at least change the asphalt...


----------



## KHS

*Rijeka bypass - Rječina bridge update*


----------



## H123Laci

CrazySerb said:


> Here is that plan - looks rather expensive:


not that hard: 12km tunnel 
its only a little bit longer than the graz west bypass tunnel...


----------



## Verso

KHS said:


> This road looks like shit!


I've seen much worse, although I agree that they could repave it. At least it's very beautiful.


----------



## diegobonazzi

*Ravca-Ploce*

Hi! I'm a new member and I don't know how this forum works.
I would like to know if somebody of you knows some news about the works to complete the highway until Ploce. This summer I had to exit at Ravca and until I reached the small part of the new road (Karamatici-Ceveljusa) there was I really hard way, with curves and bad asphalt.
I thought they were planning to finish it all before the next summer, but I found in internet the news that they'll open the Vorgorac exit in December 2009 but that for the rest we'll have to wait at least one more year. Is it true? In summer 2010 we'll have to do the old road from Vrogorac to Karamatici or they'll finish the highway until Ploce?
Thank you!


----------



## renco

H123Laci said:


> not that hard: 12km tunnel
> its only a little bit longer than the graz west bypass tunnel...


Mabye,but finances are main issue.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

When compared to the per capita income, the Graz tunnel is similar to a 30km tunnel in Croatia...


----------



## diegobonazzi

*answer ravca-ploce*

Is that possible that nobody knows anything about when a1 will reach Ploce?


----------



## Timon91

It seems like nobody knows for certain.


----------



## Zanovijetalo

True. Lack of €’s due to crisis so nothing definite on Ploče yet. The last I read said Ploče1 point (10 km from Ploče town) should be reached 2011.


----------



## Seagull

*Adriatic-Ionian Motorway*

Rječina bridge (208 m) on the A7 (Rijeka bypass), Sep 12:


----------



## Seagull

*Adriatic-Ionian motorway*

On Sep 19 the president of Albania Bamir Topi met in Cetinje, Montenegro his counterpart Vujanovic. The Albanian head of state together with the first lady Teuta Topi and the accompanying delegation were welcomed at an official ceremony at the presidential palace. At the joint press conference of heads of state the issue was the intensification of cooperation especially in infrastructure. The Montenegrin head of state stressed the importance of the completion of the road Podgorica-Plav, which connects the road leading to the south of Albania. "This cooperation extends to some areas and in the implementation and realization of joint projects, especially in the development of road infrastructure. In this sense, the project of particular importance is the close cooperation between the two ministries of transportation to eventually connect Podgorica to the south of Albania, "said Vujanovic. President Topi said: "I know that this is a part of the promises that we made together with Croatian President Mesic to build the Adriatic-Ionian highway. I think it would be a very important artery that would allow more intensive communication of people and goods, and certainly the development of tourism. President Topi met yesterday the representatives of local authorities and the parliamentary parties of Montenegro, as well as the Prime Minister Milo Djukanovic.
http://www.panorama.com.al/index.php?id=32943


----------



## Seagull

*Istrian motorway*


----------



## Seagull

*A1 Ravča-Vrgorac-Ploče*

http://www.imagebam.com/image/265dbf45814190
http://www.imagebam.com/image/228f2e45814257


----------



## diegobonazzi

*nice images*

Thank for the photos! Even if more or less is what we saw in summer. The first one is just before Vrgorac and the second little after Kobiljaca, is that right?


----------



## KHS

gorgoroth said:


> Mostovi Rječina



:cheers:


----------



## diegobonazzi

*2 directions Rjeka bypass?*

Will be in december the Rjeka bypass in full service? I mean it will be possible to use both carriages? When is it fixed the opening?


----------



## x-type

diegobonazzi said:


> Will be in december the Rjeka bypass in full service? I mean it will be possible to use both carriages? When is it fixed the opening?


it is planned to be opened till Christmas


----------



## Falusi

*Main road 8(Jadranska magistrala) Omiš - road 39*

Date of pics: 2009/07/23
Lenght: approx. 20km










/Afternnon/
1. Inside Omiš. Most(bridge) Omiš, over river Cetina. Looking north.









2. Towards Dubrovnik.









3. 









4. 









5. 









6. Turned off the road. Looking South.









/Morning/
7. 









8. 









9. 









10. 









11. 









12. 









13. 









14. 









15. 









16. 









17.









18. 









19. Distances.









20. 









21. 









22. 









23. 









24. My next post will be about this road(39).









25. 









26. Important intersection since the motorway has reached Šestanovac.









27. 









28. It's strange to see Zagreb here but it's due the motorway.


----------



## Verso

cross said:


>


"Of course Ljubljana is a village no one's ever heard of, so we'll put Italy beside just in case, so people don't get lost." hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I think they just sign that to indicate which route must be used to Italy. I believe the same thing happens around Salzburg.


----------



## Timon91

Stop wining, Verso. At least they sign it 

I see an Illinois car on photo 7, nice


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think they just sign that to indicate which route must be used to Italy. I believe the same thing happens around Salzburg.


Ljubljana is more than 4 times bigger than Villach, it's a country-capital and in the middle of Slovenia; you can't possibly miss it. No one will go from Zagreb to Italy over Rijeka, at least until a motorway is built between Rijeka and Trieste.


----------



## Verso

We should retaliate and sign Belgrade just before the border... also in Cyrillic. :devil:


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> No one will go from Zagreb to Italy over Rijeka, at least until a motorway is built between Rijeka and Trieste.


:lol:

all HR lorries go via Rijeka! of course, i do it too







and i'd say at least 35% of HR cars.

btw, Ljubljana is here at least signed. you are searching Zagreb with magnifying glass from Šentilj till Ptuj. as Ptuj is a megalopolis with million inhabitants :lol:


----------



## Verso

^ Please show Ptuj without Zagreb (oh, and at least Ptuj comes before Zagreb, not after it, and it's not in e.g. Serbia, but in Slovenia (you also have plenty of signs with Krapina without Maribor)). And why are they showing Italy via Ljubljana then, if "all HR lorries go via Rijeka"? :dunno: What's more pathetic is that those signs are local (in Zagreb), so you don't see Rijeka or Split on signs, just Karlovac, but somehow Ljubljana needs the (I) oval, cause Croats haven't heard of it. :lol:


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> ^ Please show Ptuj without Zagreb (oh, and at least Ptuj comes before Zagreb, not after it, and it's not in e.g. Serbia, but in Slovenia (you also have plenty of signs with Krapina without Maribor)). And why are they showing Italy via Ljubljana then, if "all HR lorries go via Rijeka"? :dunno: What's more pathetic is that those signs are local (in Zagreb), so you don't see Rijeka or Split on signs, just Karlovac, but somehow Ljubljana needs the (I) oval, cause Croats haven't heard of it. :lol:


even better - Dragučova

i don't have signs from A4, but they all lead only to Ptuj.
i don't see what is wrong with Karlovac :dunno:
and (I) appears only till knot Jankomir where you can go to (I) via Ljubljana or via Rijeka, and it is not indicated anymore. i don't know why Austrians then indicate (GR) and (TR). 

only


Verso said:


> pathetic


 thing is you although this (I) really is stupid


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> only
> 
> 
> Verso said:
> 
> 
> 
> pathetic
> 
> 
> 
> thing is you
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll remember that.


----------



## smokiboy

Last week I drove from Fužine to Zagreb and the motorway was excellent as I expected. I noticed on my map that there is a motorway built/planned from Zg to Sisak (A11). That motorway does not seem to make sense to me especially since it is so close to A3. Is it planned to go as far as Banja Luka and maybe Sarajevo? Can Croatia afford such a motorway at this time, that I can only guess will have a low AADT?


----------



## Palance

The road ZG-SK is very busy, expecially the part northwest of Velika Gorica. Therefore, the A11 is really needed. I have seen some plans somewhere indeed to extend the A11 towards BiH.


----------



## KHS

juricaperesin said:


> 19.10.2009
> *A1 (& expressway); section (under construction) ravca - ploce:*


:cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Really nice, the Croatians are no wasting time building Dubrovnik-bound.

What's the current progress of the Pelješac Bridge?


----------



## Majestic

What's that junction in the last picture? Where is it located?


----------



## ABRob

ivan_ri said:


> ^^http://www.huka.hr/images/mreza_autocesta/hr/karta.pdf
> 
> as they say:
> 
> light green is under construction (the dynamic is slower because of the recesion)
> gray corridors are in the planning process
> and orange/yellow is being widened into 2x2 with emergency lanes :cheers:
> 
> http://www.imagesforme.com/upload/a749a308.jpg


Oh, there is a part under construction near Dubrovnik!? When will it be opened?


----------



## ivan_ri

ABRob said:


> Oh, there is a part under construction near Dubrovnik!? When will it be opened?


the construction was announced (and started, but I'm not sure) in may 2009.... but couple of months later this section was canceled because of recession. don't know when it's gonna be continued :dunno:


----------



## (HUN)RoGeR

Is there any date when will reach the A12, A13 and A5 motorways the Hungarian border?

These motorways won't be ghost-moroways?
Do you have an "average traffic" map?


----------



## ivan_ri

(HUN)RoGeR said:


> Is there any date when will reach the A12, A13 and A5 motorways the Hungarian border?
> 
> These motorways won't be ghost-moroways?
> Do you have an "average traffic" map?


I don't have any detailed info...

these motorways (gray) are planned after 2014. so there isn't much info...

maybe x-type will be of more help :cheers:

btw here is average traffic for 2008. http://www.hrvatske-ceste.hr/WEB - Legislativa/brojenje-prometa/brpr2008_saz.pdf


----------



## x-type

(HUN)RoGeR said:


> Is there any date when will reach the A12, A13 and A5 motorways the Hungarian border?
> 
> These motorways won't be ghost-moroways?
> Do you have an "average traffic" map?


A5 the most probably the same as your M6.

A12 and A13 probably not in next 10 years. A13 will reach Bjelovar, A12 might reach Koprivnica and all over that will be surprise


----------



## ivan_ri

Rijeka bypass - part 1



gorgoroth said:


> ^^^^:cheers:
> 
> Evo malo sam danas bio vrijedan pa obišao gradilište,radovi super napreduju
> 
> Lažni tunel





gorgoroth said:


> Samo je jedna ekipa na gradilištu


----------



## ivan_ri

Rijeka bypass - part 2



gorgoroth said:


> Fora izgleda ^^^^ bolje da nije skroz zatvoreno
> 
> 
> 
> Solarni paneli
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bukobran između dva traka na sredini :dunno:





gorgoroth said:


> Pogled prema zapadu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prozirni bukobrani idu stepenasto


----------



## ivan_ri

Rijeka bypass - part 3



gorgoroth said:


> Kombinacija visokih bukobrana i lažnog tunela





gorgoroth said:


> Na sjevernom kolniku je izgreban asfalt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Viadukt Mihačeva draga





gorgoroth said:


> Tunel Škurinje I je popituran,još samo fali asfalt





gorgoroth said:


> Ovo izgleda ludo :nuts:


----------



## KHS

Nice update!


----------



## diegobonazzi

*opening Rijeka bypass*

Hello!
I'll pass through Rijeka the 19th December. Will it be in full work the new bypass? If not, there are some advice you can give me not to have troubles.
Thanks


----------



## ivan_ri

diegobonazzi said:


> Hello!
> I'll pass through Rijeka the 19th December. Will it be in full work the new bypass? If not, there are some advice you can give me not to have troubles.
> Thanks


^^no, it will be fully functional after 23.12.09 (maybe 24th)...

I don't have any special advice for your travel through Rijeka... it will be saturday so you will probably drive through Rijeka without trouble.


----------



## diegobonazzi

*thanks*

damn... anyway i'll see it copleted when i'll come back in january. Thank you for your quick answer.

Please, can you (and the other member of the forum) tell me what are the weather condition in general on the rijeka-bosiljevo-split highway? Is there fog/rain/snow usually and where more probably?


----------



## X236K

How's A9?


----------



## x-type

diegobonazzi said:


> damn... anyway i'll see it copleted when i'll come back in january. Thank you for your quick answer.
> 
> Please, can you (and the other member of the forum) tell me what are the weather condition in general on the rijeka-bosiljevo-split highway? Is there fog/rain/snow usually and where more probably?


wind: A1 between exits 14 Sveti Rok and 16 Posedarje (actually, between tunnel Sveti Rok and Posedarje, but exclusions are at exit Sveti Rok). also there can be possible wind at A6 between exits 7a Kikovica and 5 Vrata, but i don't remember that section closed because of wind, just speed limit.

snow: whole A6 from exit 7a Kikovica and A1 till tunnel Sveti Rok.

fog: same as snow.

they clean motorways fast, so you can expect snow and ice on the road only if it is snowing. few hours after snowing stops you will have only wet road with 80 or 100 km/h speed limit.


----------



## diegobonazzi

*LPG station*

Thank you all!
I have a LPG car and I would like to know where i can fill up in the highways?
I need a station between RUPA and RIJEKA direction Zagreb and another between SIBENIK and SPLIT direction Dubrovnik.
How's the wheather there today? Does somebody know what they predict for saturday?


----------



## darko06

As far as I know, the OMV gas stations should have LPG. They are placed as follows:

"Vrata Jadrana/The Adria Gate", on A7, near Matulji;
"Janjče", on A1, between interchanges Otočac and Perušić;
"Nadin", on A1, between interchanges Zadar 2 and Biograd.
Have a nice trip.


----------



## diegobonazzi

*southest exit*

Is it still Ravca the southest exit of the A1? When do they plan to open the Vrgorac exit?


----------



## x-type

diegobonazzi said:


> Thank you all!
> I have a LPG car and I would like to know where i can fill up in the highways?
> I need a station between RUPA and RIJEKA direction Zagreb and another between SIBENIK and SPLIT direction Dubrovnik.
> How's the wheather there today? Does somebody know what they predict for saturday?


you have no problem with LPG in HR 
so, around Rijeka, you have LPG at service area Ravna Gora at A6 between exits 3 Ravna Gora and 2 Vrbovsko. before that there should be 2 service areas with LPG, first one just after border crossing as soon as you enter A7, OMV's service area Rupa, and other one at Rijeka's bypass, also OMV, Vrata Jadrana. OMV has lousy web, but i have found those stations at LPG list at alternative page, so i am not 100% sure for them (for Ravna Gora i am sure because i used LPG tank there).

A1 between Šibenik and Split - you have LPG at INA's service area Kozjak between exits 24b Vučevica and 25 Dugopolje (Split) (or after Split Petrol's service area Mosor between exits 26 Bisko and 27 Blato na Cetini), i don't know your destination point. generally almost all service stations at A1 have LPG.

currently weather conditions: A1 closed between Sveti Rok and Maslenica (wind+snow), rest is also not too good, they recomend not to go on trip if not necessary.
here is screen shot from A6 at exit Vrata.


----------



## ivan_ri

x-type said:


> you have no problem with LPG in HR
> so, around Rijeka, you have LPG at service area Ravna Gora at A6 between exits 3 Ravna Gora and 2 Vrbovsko. before that there should be 2 service areas with LPG, first one just after border crossing as soon as you enter A7, OMV's service area Rupa, and other one at Rijeka's bypass, also OMV, Vrata Jadrana. OMV has lousy web, but i have found those stations at LPG list at alternative page, so *i am not 100% sure for them* (for Ravna Gora i am sure because i used LPG tank there).


Rupa and Vrata Jadrana both have LPG :cheers:


----------



## diegobonazzi

*ravca-vrgorac?*



diegobonazzi said:


> Is it still Ravca the southest exit of the A1? When do they plan to open the Vrgorac exit?


No answers for this question?... come on guys you're the experts!

I'm thinking to postpone my trip (planned for saturday 19th) for thursday 24th, does somebody know what wheather forcasters says for the 24th?

IN ALTO STAT HRVATSKE AUTOCESTE


----------



## KHS

You can see road conditions here... http://www.hak.hr/traffic-and-road-conditions.aspx


7-day weather forecasts... http://prognoza.hr/sedam_e.php?id=sedam&param=Hrvatska&code=14240

This one is for Zagreb area but you can click on other city areas just under the table.

Forecast for saturday (19th) is snow and wind. I don't know... Maybe you should postpone your trip... :dunno: It could be ok but you never know when there are strong winds. Highways are maintaned very well and only snow would not be a problem but you can't do nothing if there is a strong wind.

Weather was terrible yesterday and today in the morning and many roads were closed but everything is back to normal now.

:cheers:


----------



## x-type

diegobonazzi said:


> No answers for this question?... come on guys you're the experts!


yes! Vrgorac - dunno :dunno: maybe next summer?


----------



## bikeee

new Macelj and highway between Croatia and Slovenia is open today


----------



## Mateusz

Which one is it ?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Probably that short extension.


----------



## x-type

yes, new border crossing with few hunderds of meters of new motorway around it. i haven't found any news about it. actually, i have only one, extremely short with little photo (i cannot put link here :dunno: )



it seems that SLO will use current border crossing which they've opened few years ago


----------



## pijanec

Sure we will use an old one as it was built as a motorway border point.


----------



## x-type

diegobonazzi said:


> I'm thinking to postpone my trip (planned for saturday 19th) for thursday 24th, does somebody know what wheather forcasters says for the 24th?


i really hope you haven't taken that trip today :nuts:

A1, Zagreb









A1, Sveti Rok









A3, Zagreb









A7, Rijeka


----------



## diegobonazzi

*luckly no!*



x-type said:


> i really hope you haven't taken that trip today :nuts:


I'm still here... I'm suffiering watching weather forecast alla the time... It seem that the next couple of weeks it'll be like this... Maybe I won't go at all.


----------



## x-type

diegobonazzi said:


> I'm still here... I'm suffiering watching weather forecast alla the time... It seem that the next couple of weeks it'll be like this... Maybe I won't go at all.


now the situation is ok, no snow at roads anymore


----------



## diegobonazzi

x-type said:


> now the situation is ok, no snow at roads anymore


I'm still hoping to travel thursday 24th. I will ask you guys for roads conditions and weather wensday. Thanks


----------



## KHS

Weather forecast for 24th is rain all over Croatia and temperatures between 10 and 
15 °C. You shouldn't have any problem traveling...

Here is forecast for Rijeka county...http://prognoza.hr/tri_karta_e.php?id=tri&param=Primorsko-goranska&code=Rijeka

For other parts of the country click on the map left from the table.

:cheers:


----------



## x-type

but for weekend they talk again about some snow


----------



## diegobonazzi

Hi! Today weather here's great. How's there in Croatia? In forecasts i saw that tomorrow there will be rain around Rijeka and Gospic, is that correct?
Somebody of you saw in croatian televisions and newspapers what they say for tomorrow?


----------



## KHS

^^ http://prognoza.hr/prognoze_e.php?id=hrsutra_e&param=



:cheers:


----------



## x-type

today is sunny, tomorrow rain, but far over 0°C, so no ice. snow has melted almost completely. so, all you need is enough windshield liquid


----------



## El Ron de Cuba

I have request to you guys.

I would like to update page http://motorways-exitlists.com/europe/hr/croatia.htm
Please, can you give me any new or correct info? Every relevant info, link or map are very welcome. Feel free to use my email [email protected]

Best regards from Czech republic,
Martin


----------



## ivan_ri

Rijeka bypass (Diracje - Orehovica section) has officially been opened on 22. 12. 2009. :banana::banana::cheers::cheers:

here are some pictures just to see what this project was abut :cheers:










so this part from Diracje to Orehovica was widened to 2x2 profile 

just to visualize the terrain




























:cheers:

this part from Sv. Kuzam to Krizisce is under construction


----------



## ivan_ri

here is a full report from this opened section :cheers:



gorgoroth said:


> Evo i mog završnog pogleda na zaobilaznicu u smjeru zapada
> 
> Prije Orehovice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tunel Trsat
> 
> 
> 
> Most Riječina
> 
> 
> 
> Tunel Katarina





gorgoroth said:


> Izlaz iz tunela Katarina
> 
> 
> 
> podvožnjak Kozala
> 
> 
> 
> iznad groblja na Kozali
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bukobrani





gorgoroth said:


> Iznad Rastočina
> 
> 
> 
> pored umjetnog tunela
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> viadukt Mihačeva Draga
> 
> 
> 
> tuneli Škurinje I





gorgoroth said:


> Čvor Škurinje
> 
> 
> 
> Nakon tunela Škurinje II
> 
> 
> 
> bukobrani
> 
> 
> 
> Kod čvora Rujevica
> 
> 
> 
> kod crkve na Krnjevu





gorgoroth said:


> Krnjevo
> 
> 
> 
> Bukobrani





gorgoroth said:


> Opet bukobrani
> 
> 
> 
> Zamet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> čvor Diračje


----------



## Doboj23

Very good pictures.

Voznja na vasim autoputevima je cista uzivancija. Svaka cast susjedi!


----------



## hofburg

very nice bypass. I remember going trough Rijeka center two summers in a row because of that.  Luckily center is quite nice.


ivan_ri said:


> Rijeka bypass


don't you think there will be a bit too many motorways around rijeka?


----------



## x-type

hofburg said:


> very nice bypass. I remember going trough Rijeka center two summers in a row because of that.  Luckily center is quite nice.
> 
> 
> don't you think there will be a bit too many motorways around rijeka?


the red one is far future  let's say we won't be able to drive on it for next 8-10 years


----------



## ivan_ri

here is some sort of timeline for rijeka road projects










this main roads are widened and opened in last year and couple of months.... and one big city tunnel (1.300m) with connection to the bypass will be opened in spring 2010. (I hope there will be no more prolongation, this road should have been opened in 2008 or 2009 as I remember)...

and this section form Sv. Kuzam to Krizisce is under construction...

alll other red and dark blue roads in this pic are not going to be built in near future.... this roads are still in the phase of research. exact corridors willl be published in 2010. when Rijeka (and Primorsko-Goranska county) traffic study is expected to be finished...


----------



## ivan_ri

interesting :cheers:

Rijeka bypas 1980. and 2009. :cheers:


----------



## seem

I can't believe that motorway bypass of Rijeka is already open! :cheers:

Ja nemôžem uveriť že diaľničný obchvat Rijeky je už dokončený! :cheers:

I am waiting to take a drive on it. It is big step for a city as Rijeka, traffic was realy bad. In hot summer day I was waiting there for a one hour in cabrio. :nuts:

Čakám kedy sa po ňom odveziem. Je to veľký krok pre mesto ako Rijeka, doprava bola naozaj neúnosná. V teplom letnom dni som tu čakal hodinu v kabriolete. :nuts:


----------



## Zabonz

Tunel Ucka










:cheers:


_by Lokalpatriot RI_


----------



## lukaszek89

^^wow


----------



## Fugit

What new sections of Croatian motorways will open in 2010?


----------



## x-type

none 
ok, now seriously - maybe some shorter sections of A1 in the south and probably A9 Pula - Kanfanar (upgrading existing expressway, i'm not too sure about that)


----------



## seem

x-type said:


> none
> ok, now seriously - maybe some shorter sections of A1 in the south and probably A9 Pula - Kanfanar (upgrading existing expressway, i'm not too sure about that)


I am glad to hear that. :cheers:

I haven`t been on this part for probably 2 or 3 years (I have been there 6 months ago but just in Rovinj (Rovinj is my "summer" home  )) so I didn`t know that A9 Kanfanar-Pula is under construction. I always go shopping and sightseeing to Pula but this last year/s I haven`t been there. I hope it will be wide (!!). Narrow motorways are typical for Croatia. Where I can find photos and maps of this part of motorway?


----------



## keber

seem said:


> Narrow motorways are typical for Croatia.


They are just as narrow as elsewhere in Europe.


----------



## seem

keber said:


> They are just as narrow as elsewhere in Europe.


Yes, they are. But in Croatia are many parts of motorways that are more narrow than other. Especialy, I mean the "emergency lane" (I don`t what is English for that, in Slovak it is "krajnica"). 

Maybe that is only my "feeling" and in Croatia aren`t too many narrow parts

for example this part of A1 or some parts of A9









or


----------



## Danielk2

the corner on the first picture looks like a NASCAR track.


----------



## keber

First picture are showing climbing lanes (for up and down), therefore no emergency lane. Second picture shows ordinary urban expressway (it is A6 in Rijeka), which usually don't have emergency lanes. Emergency lanes in Croatia are 2,5 metres wide, that's the same as in many other countries in Europe, like Germany.
Almost all Croatian motorways look like this:


----------



## ivan_ri

second pic is Split exspressway/bypass, not Rijeka :cheers:


----------



## katia72

*Wow...*










THIS IS GREAT PICTURE...!!!!


----------



## x-type

katia72 said:


> http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f...most of european motorways have it like that.


----------



## rarse

seem said:


> "emergency lane" (I don`t what is English for that, in Slovak it is "krajnica").


In english > ''hard shoulder''


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Or simply "shoulder" in American English.


----------



## Timon91

seem said:


> http://s50.photobucket.com/albums/f331/deko123/P1010375.jpg


Is that a full 180 degree turn? The only other motorway/motorway-like expy like road I know that has this is the RA13 (or A4 or SS202 or whatever ) near Trieste, Italy.


----------



## Zanovijetalo

Btw Sveti Ilija is the tunnel connecting A1 south of Split with Makarska coastal area.


----------



## ivan_ri

^^applause :applause: for construction workers :cheers:


----------



## panda80

ivan_ri said:


> ^^applause :applause: for construction workers :cheers:


When the tunnel will be completed? It will be ready fo 2010 summer?


----------



## ivan_ri

panda80 said:


> When the tunnel will be completed? It will be ready fo 2010 summer?


no one knows...

government will finance 16 mil kn (2.2 mil € :nuts in 2010 and that is not enough to finish the tunnel. but there are some gossip that local authorities are willing to pay for the rest of the works (if the government is willing to redistribute the money they got for other infrastructural projects)...

so there isn't a definite answer yet, but even if they do come to agreement it will probably not be finished before 2011.


----------



## x-type

i expect it to be finnished for summer 2011


----------



## Satan Of Panonia

I can't wait to drive trough that tunnel.The whole Makarska Riviera is extremly beautiful and soon much better connected.


----------



## Qtya

The tunnel will be only 1+1, or there will be a parallel one as well?


----------



## phiberoptik

Qtya said:


> The tunnel will be only 1+1, or there will be a parallel one as well?


only 1+1 and service tube


----------



## KHS

Hugo Cross said:


> *A1 niz Velebit*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thenightrider, pticica
> 
> :cheers:


:cheers:


----------



## KHS

*Zagreb-Rijeka*



P.C.Dolabella said:


>


:cheers:


----------



## rarse

Nice photos. Thank you P.C.Dolabella


----------



## x-type

A6 is fantastic to drive when the snow is cleared and there is about 50 cm of snow around it


----------



## mitasis

Fantastic pictures! I love motorways with snowy landscape!


----------



## diegobonazzi

Somebody knows the conditions of the street 6211 between Dusina and Otric/Seoci?

It seems that'll be the shorter way down to Ploce when they'll open the Vorgorac exit of the A1.


----------



## zezi

diegobonazzi said:


> Somebody knows the conditions of the street 6211 between Dusina and Otric/Seoci?
> 
> It seems that'll be the shorter way down to Ploce when they'll open the Vorgorac exit of the A1.


It is village road, very narrow, slow, lots of car parked around.
Not a good choice


From Vrgorac to Ploče you have two roads
1. M.Prolog ( D 62 )
2. Staševica (Z 6208 )
IMO second one is better choice


----------



## KHS

*A1*

Thanx to zezi :cheers:


Odmorište Rašćani


Vijadukt Gradina


Tunel Umac


Susret D-512 (Ravča - Makarska) i A1. Cesta je privremeno izmještena dok se ne napravi nadvožnjak 




Vijadukt Šare




Vijadukt Kokorići












Usjek i vijadukt Paklina






Budući Čvor Vrgorac


Iza Vrgorca iznova je napravljena lokalna cesta za Dusinu, jer preko stare ide AC 


Vijadukt Lučka






Vijadukt Veliki Prolog
 



Poviše Otrić Seoca će biti tunel Šubir


Thanx to zezi :cheers:


----------



## diegobonazzi

Thank you! Impressive photos and magnificent project (as always in Croatian highways). I cannot wait to drive throught that section of the A1!

If i correctly understand this sentence _"Iza Vrgorca iznova je napravljena lokalna cesta za Dusinu, jer preko stare ide AC"_ means that they'll upgrade the local road Dusina Otric/Seoci when it'll be opened the Vrgorac exit?

In any case probably i'll try that road once, at least to see the progress of the section Vrgorac-MaliProlog-Karamantici.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
ONE DAY WE'LL ALL DRIVE TILL DUBROVNIK ON THE A1!!!!!!


----------



## phiberoptik

diegobonazzi said:


> If i correctly understand this sentence _"Iza Vrgorca iznova je napravljena lokalna cesta za Dusinu, jer preko stare ide AC"_ means that they'll upgrade the local road Dusina Otric/Seoci when it'll be opened the Vrgorac exit?


No, it means they've built new section of that local road because the older section is on motorway path


----------



## diegobonazzi

which part was rebuilded?


----------



## x-type

diegobonazzi said:


> which part was rebuilded?


that's probably jus a short part where that road interchanges with route of future motorway, so probably lenght of few hunderds meters. that should last till they build new overpass. nothing special, seen 1000 times


----------



## zezi

phiberoptik said:


> No, it means they've built new section of that local road because the older section is on motorway path


kay: exactly



diegobonazzi said:


> which part was rebuilded?


Local road 6211 was rebuilded (picture no 18) from intersection with 6208 toward Dusina in lenght of about 400 meters, now it is more south, parallel with motorway.

And on picture No4 is


x-type said:


> that's probably jus a short part where that road interchanges with route of future motorway, so probably lenght of few hunderds meters. that should last till they build new overpass. nothing special, seen 1000 times


----------



## ivan_ri

Rijeka bypass (east): Sv. Kuzam - Križišće

misipile's update



misipile said:


>





misipile said:


>


----------



## ivan_ri

Rijeka bypass (east): Sv. Kuzam - Križišće (2)



misipile said:


>


----------



## Satan Of Panonia

Little offtopic or maybe not.
The first Croatian electric car is soon coming out!!!

Doking XD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-2LEwDG6OQ


----------



## Satan Of Panonia

http://dok-ing.hr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=66&Itemid=10&lang=en

http://dok-ing.hr/index.php?option=...ar-xd-photo&catid=15:photo&Itemid=130&lang=en


----------



## Czas na Żywiec

Fantastic! :applause:


----------



## zsimi80

I like Croatia/Hrvatska/Horvátország, it is a very nice country.


----------



## Tom 958

What is that enormous circular opening in the ground?


----------



## ivan_ri

I'm not sure, but probably some sort of fundations.


----------



## Nowax

I love Croatia


----------



## keber

Tom 958 said:


> What is that enormous circular opening in the ground?


A well (I don't know exact English term) for pillar foundations.


----------



## Tom 958

keber said:


> A well (I don't know exact English term) for pillar foundations.


A caisson, then. 

Doesn't look right, though. It seems to have a rim of sorts at the top, which... I've seen a few caissons, but none that look like that.


----------



## Satan Of Panonia




----------



## Satan Of Panonia




----------



## Satan Of Panonia




----------



## Satan Of Panonia

Serpentines to Sv.Jure (Biokovo)


----------



## Satan Of Panonia




----------



## Satan Of Panonia




----------



## shpirtkosova

I think if anyone ever gets the chance to ever visit the Balkans then Croatia deffinatly cannot be a miss! Its a beautiful country with really good road network. Some of the best motorways in Europe. Dubrovnik-Split highway is one hell of a great journy to experience and enjoy.


----------



## Satan Of Panonia

Highway A1 from the air.Complete.

Part 1 of 8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q_eW1r2P7Y&feature=related


----------



## x-type

Satan Of Panonia said:


> Highway A1 from the air.Complete.
> 
> Part 1 of 8
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q_eW1r2P7Y&feature=related


there is absolutely no reason for reposting that


----------



## ivan_ri

Satan Of Panonia said:


> http://i46.tinypic.com/1zokq3n.jpg


small town Bakar with Sv. Kuzam exit (A7) in the back :cheers:


----------



## ivan_ri

*Rijeka's east bypass: Sv. Kuzam - Krizisce*

^^it is the extension of the road viewed in the last post. (above Bakar)

photos by cro forumer gorgoroth





service road


----------



## ivan_ri

*Rijeka's east bypass: Sv. Kuzam - Krizisce II*

photos by cro forumer gorgoroth


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Is it true works on A1 are suspended due to lack of funding until further notice?


----------



## ivan_ri

*Rijeka's east bypass: Sv. Kuzam - Krizisce III*

photos by cro forumer gorgoroth


----------



## ivan_ri

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is it true works on A1 are suspended due to lack of funding until further notice?


officially they are suspended due to the lack of permits and works should continue with 1.3.2010.


----------



## ivan_ri

*Rijeka's east bypass: Sv. Kuzam - Krizisce IV*

photos by cro forumer gorgoroth













and the view :nuts:


----------



## x-type

ivan_ri said:


> officially they are suspended due to the lack of permits and works should continue with 1.3.2010.


but i'm affraid they will finnish it only till Vrgorac, and connecting it with Ploče depends about future financial situation


----------



## ivan_ri

x-type said:


> but i'm affraid they will finnish it only till Vrgorac, and connecting it with Ploče depends about future financial situation


I am also sceptical :|


----------



## xelius_autobahn

what's new on Peljesac stretch? can you post any photos?


----------



## Zanovijetalo

^ Not many news I'm afraid - no money 



ChrisZwolle said:


> Is it true works on A1 are suspended due to lack of funding until further notice?


Feb 10 was announced that construction has been suspended, but as already said here, official reason is administrative not moneywise (something about new contracts, new government plans and such). 

We should’ve heard more about future construction dynamics “next week” (so this week) but I don’t recall reading anything. As far as I know the plan in this moment is to find the way to finish A1 to Vrgorac – while the part to Ploče is completely on hold.


----------



## diegobonazzi

ivan_ri said:


> I am also sceptical :|


Do they plan to open Vrgorac this summer or (as I red) in summer 2011?


----------



## x-type

diegobonazzi said:


> Do they plan to open Vrgorac this summer or (as I red) in summer 2011?


this summer definitely not.


----------



## ivan_ri

hopefully by the end of the year...


----------



## smokiboy

Has the Rijeka bypass reached Hreljin yet? When is that section (east) scheduled to open? And how far east?


----------



## ivan_ri

^^this photos were taken at Hreljin few days ago :cheers:



ivan_ri said:


> photos by cro forumer gorgoroth
> 
> http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/2266/dsc03522m.jpg
> 
> http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/907/dsc03523d.jpg
> 
> http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/1378/dsc03526z.jpg
> 
> http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/4189/dsc03529o.jpg
> 
> http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8546/dsc03534w.jpg
> 
> http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9537/dsc03535z.jpg


and this is the part under construction (Sv. Kuzam - Krizisce) - around Bakar bay

it should be opened in summer 2011. but probably will be opened in 2012. due to the overall budget cut downs in motorway projects in Croatia










a bit detailed view (thanks to misiple)



misipile said:


>


----------



## smokiboy

Thanks Ivan. I was in Hreljin last summer for a few days and heard the explosions while they were dynamiting the terrain just about 1 km to the south of Hreljin. Looking at the map and foto you posted it is now clear to me where the route of the motorway passes.
Hvala.


----------



## ivan_ri

^^no problem :cheers1:


----------



## smokiboy

Was there ever a plan or idea to build the motorway close to the refinery and bridge the relatively narrow section of the opening to Bakar Bay?


----------



## keber

Hardly, it is a good quality limestone. Karst areas are not prone to landslides much.


----------



## Puležan

rarse said:


> When should second half of Istrian Ypsilon - A9 supposed to be completed? Will there be hard shoulders on both sides?


A9 is being built into full profile in 2 phases: the first part from Kanfanar junction to Pula will be finished this summer (june or july 2010), and the second part from SLO border (Kaštel) to Kanfanar will be finished in june 2011.
It will be full motorway profile, 2+2 with hard shoulders. The new roadway is being built with hard shoulder, but the old one is going to be upgraded with hard shoulder probably after the summer. You can take a look at my photo-report from yesterday (3 parts) 
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=52820249&postcount=2959
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=52820487&postcount=2960
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=52820673&postcount=2961

Also, the A8 part from Kanfanar to Pazin is going to be finished in full profile the next summer (2011)


----------



## rarse

Puležan said:


> A9 is being built into full profile in 2 phases: the first part from Kanfanar junction to Pula will be finished this summer (june or july 2010), and the second part from SLO border (Kaštel) to Kanfanar will be finished in june 2011.
> It will be full motorway profile, 2+2 with hard shoulders. The new roadway is being built with hard shoulder, but the old one is going to be upgraded with hard shoulder probably after the summer.
> 
> Also, the A8 part from Kanfanar to Pazin is going to be finished in full profile the next summer (2011)


So finally something is going on in Istria (in comparison with all other parts of Croatia).

Anyway they say that viaduct Limska Draga and bridge Mirna will not be upgraded to full profile.





> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=52820249&postcount=2959


:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:



Thanks for the info and for photo report.


----------



## x-type

nice views of A1 from police chase on this link
http://www.24sata.hr/news/manijak-s-a1-htio-udariti-u-policiju-sa-197-km-na-sat/162056/

he blew his tire at tunnel Mala Kapela on one of those things which divide traffic (there were works in the tunnel so traffic was organized in one tube in 2 directions)


----------



## Puležan

rarse said:


> So finally something is going on in Istria (in comparison with all other parts of Croatia).
> 
> Anyway they say that viaduct Limska Draga and bridge Mirna will not be upgraded to full profile.


Yes, A8 & A9 and the Rijeka bypass are the only bigger projects which haven't been stopped.:cheers:

About Limska Draga and Mirna - these are 2 objects construction of which is very complicated and so very expensive (the viaduct L.Draga is very tall, and the Mirna bridge is based on sludgy ground) so they will be built after whole A9 is completed in full profile (somewhere in 2012-2013). It's not a bad thing, because there will not be a pay-toll station any more, and the traffic will flow without slowing down


----------



## panda80

Puležan said:


> Yes, A8 & A9 and the Rijeka bypass are the only bigger projects which haven't been stopped.:cheers:
> 
> About Limska Draga and Mirna - these are 2 objects construction of which is very complicated and so very expensive (the viaduct L.Draga is very tall, and the Mirna bridge is based on sludgy ground) so they will be built after whole A9 is completed in full profile (somewhere in 2012-2013). It's not a bad thing, because there will not be a pay-toll station any more, and the traffic will flow without slowing down


And what about Ucka tunnel? Are there any plans to double it?


----------



## x-type

panda80 said:


> And what about Ucka tunnel? Are there any plans to double it?


for now not, although there are plans to double it in next 10 years. imo it could be realistic to have double tube on Učka tunnel around 2017. it is also very possible to start making second tube as part of new A8 project which will have completely new route between Rijeka and tunnel Učka (north from existing one). and that new A8's route could be built as extension of new Rijeka wide bypass between Permani and Grobnik


----------



## Puležan

^^
plans for the second tube are not in near future, but, as x-type said, it will be built in next 10-year period. The problem with the whole B8 (in future A8) is that it's a road built between 1980 and 1991 as a highway, and because of that doesn't have all characteristics of a motorway, so there is much work to be done on the old roadway to upgrade it into full profile, such as smoothing the curves, leveling the slopes, widen the road, upgrade the hard shoulder, and after all that - build the second roadway (including the new tube of Učka)!!!

Also, the whole new route of A8 from Učka tunnel to Rijeka bypass will be done, but not as an direct extension of the new Rijeka bypass (Permani-Grobnik). A8 will be connected to Rijeka bypass on the new junction Jušići (on today's bypass A7), which will be located a little bit southern from Permani junction. 

In any case, the concessionaire has the obligation to build the full profile of the road before 2027:lol:
Joke:colgate: 
That's the year of expiration of a concession treaty. But the concessionaire must build the second roadway when traffic achieves 10,000 vehicles per day (or 16,000 per day during summer). In 2004, there were 7329 vehicles (10,899 during summer), today it's about 9000 (I don't have exact data), but, as I said, upgrading into full profile have started last year, and the first part of A8 from Kanfanar to Pazin will be finished in summer 2011


----------



## Puležan

*Photo update from A9, section Kanfanar-Pula PART I*


Vodnjan-north exit (entrance)
The whole section from Kanfanar to Pula is asphalted. The traffic is carried on the new roadway


----------



## Puležan

*Photo update from A9, section Kanfanar-Pula PART II*

Back on the old roadway
The barriers are put, lines on the road are drawn, workers put on new traffic signs...
































































Kanfanar junction








going back to Pula


----------



## Puležan

*Photo update from A9, section Kanfanar-Pula PART III*

Back to Pula
































exit Vodnjan-north; toll-station


----------



## ivan_ri

*Rijeka's east bypass: Sv. Kuzam - Krizisce*












misipile said:


>





misipile said:


> Ulaz u Viaduktovu bazu u *Kriziscu*:





misipile said:


> *D8, pogled na trasu Kuk-Krizisce*, bijeli usjek na slici... vidi se koliki ce biti nagib/pad tog dijela dionice (ipak tu pocinje veci spust s Hreljina prema cvoru Smrika):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Tunel Burlica*, usjek i *vijadukt Kuk* - lijepo se vide zemljani radovi radi prirodnog kontrasta bijelo vs. smedje.. samo danas, sutra vise toga nema:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Segment trase buduceg nasipa, iznad je D501. Radi se naveliko, iako je to na ovoj u voznji uhvacenoj slici malo teze primjetiti:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Podrucje *Kuka*, s D501 iz smjera Hreljina:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lokacija vijadukta *Kuk* - tek kad snijeg padne vidi se koliko je tu prezida bilo (i jos ih ima)


----------



## ivan_ri

*snow on Rijeka bypass few days ago*

from pticica.com


----------



## ivan_ri

*Rijeka's east bypass: Sv. Kuzam - Krizisce II*

:cheers:



misipile said:


> Masinerija radi punom parom na trasi buduceg ostrog zavoja *Krizisce*:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Tunel Burlica, usjek Kuk i buduci vijadukt Kuk* - upravo se dovrsava montaza dizalice:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> U prvom planu trenutna *D501*, iza toga sasvim nova trasa koja ce voditi do cvora Hreljin:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lokacija *Kuk*, dizalica je tek montirana:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Iako je nedjelja, jako je zivo... blago onom tko ce raditi u ovoj dizalici, super pogled (osim kad je prejaka bura, tad pogled ne vrijedi tih zivaca, heh):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jedan od bunara:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mobilna dizalica je obavila svoj posao i polagano krece uzbrdo:


----------



## ivan_ri

*Rijeka's east bypass: Sv. Kuzam - Krizisce III*

:cheers:



misipile said:


>





gorgoroth said:


>





gorgoroth said:


>


----------



## KHS

*Mirna viaduct A(B)9*



MountMan said:


>


:cheers:


----------



## KHS

*Istrian Y upgrade*



DarkPula said:


>



:cheers:


----------



## darko06

Will they add a right hard shoulder to the existing part of the future motorway?


----------



## x-type

darko06 said:


> Will they add a right hard shoulder to the existing part of the future motorway?


yes


----------



## diegobonazzi

Some news on the construction of the Ravca-Ploce section?


----------



## zezi

^^


zezi said:


> A1 (Ravča - Čvor Ploče)
> Vijadukt Kokorići i usjek Paklina
> 
> Vijadukt Paklina i usjek
> 
> Operativa odmara
> 
> Čvor Ploče tek poprima obrise
> 
> 
> Brza cesta Čvor Ploče - Ploče
> Vijadukt Kula
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tunel Kobiljača
> 
> 
> Vijadukt Brečići - Struge


----------



## KHS

Great pictures! 

Btw. There is no need to quote your own post.

:cheers:


----------



## diegobonazzi

No hopes for openings within next summer?...


----------



## zezi

Maybe summer 2012


----------



## ChrisZwolle

What's the status on A11 towards Sisak?


----------



## panda80

zezi said:


> Maybe summer 2012


So this year not any new section of motorway will be opened?


----------



## zezi

This year:
 upgrade of A9 Pula - Kanfanar (28 km)
A11 Zagreb - Velika Gorica section(10 km) is not on time, probably not this year, but we still have hopes

A11 Velika Gorica - Buševec section (9km) is opened 
A11 Buševec - Lekenik is U/C - (maybe) summer 2011 will be finished.
From Lekenik to Sisak construction havent started


----------



## ChrisZwolle

From the BIH thread:



P.C.Dolabella said:


> Yes, here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the left is Croatian A3 (and small existed part of connection tu Novi Varoš village, up to violet coloured service zone, on the road to Stara Gradiška on the Croatian side of the river and Bosanska Gradiška on Bosnian side). On the right is position of future border cross (orange) and bridge over Sava river.
> 
> But I think that the start of the constriction of Croatian side depend of the deal with simultaneous start of the construction on northern part of E5.


A road goes to the left here (north), which motorway is this, and where will it lead to?


----------



## P.C.Dolabella

To Virovitica, but It's only long term plan of the National spatial development.


----------



## ivan_ri

*Rijeka east bypass: Sv Kuzam - Krizisce (A7)*



vojo said:


> Vojo


:cheers:


----------



## Foolish Farmer

Superb progress is happening with the croatian motorways! Continiue that way Croatia! The croatian motorways are an example at least for the countries of SEE.

So in summer 2010 how many km will be missing from the end to the A1 to Dubrovnik?


----------



## KHS

*A9 - Limska draga viaduct*



polde404 said:


>


:cheers:


----------



## edis_mumin

Very nice pics.
You have awesome motorways!


----------



## KHS

^^ :cheers:


----------



## H123Laci

^^ nice clip.

I have visited more than half of the bridges in the clip...


----------



## H123Laci

There is a half-built full cloverleaf IC on A9 at Pula.

when do they want to continue the A9 and on what route?


----------



## KHS

^^ :dunno:

Im sure this photo was posted before but its worth to post it again...

*A1*









by thenightrider, source: pticica.com



:cheers:


----------



## H123Laci

KHS said:


> ^^ :cheers:


I made a table of contents with google.map links :

1. Dubrovnik bridge on main road #8

2. Maslenica bridge on A1

(what about the old/rebuilt maslenica bridge?)

3. Krka bridge on road #56 at Skradin

4. Krka bridge on A1

5. Kamacnik bridge on A1

6. Stari most at Gornji Kosinj

7. Limska draga viaduct on A9

8. bridge on main road #1 at Rastoke

9. viaduct on A7 at Rijeka

10. Mirna viaduct on A9

11. arch bridge on main road #8 at Sibenik

12. bay bridge on main road #8 

13. Cetina bridge on A1

14. Krk island bridges

15. Pag island bridge

16. Vir island bridge


----------



## Foolish Farmer

Foolish Farmer said:


> So in summer 2010 how many km will be missing from the end of the A1 to Dubrovnik?


??? no idea ???


----------



## pause

Probably about 100km


----------



## KHS

*Istrian Y, Pula-Vodnjan*



Bladepula said:


>



:cheers:


----------



## Zanovijetalo

*photo by absint*



H123Laci said:


> 6. unidentified old bridge...


Wow are you a _bridgeologist_ or something, Laci

That old one should be the Kosinj bridge


----------



## P.C.Dolabella

First kilometers of A9 in Istria *Pula - Vodnjan * (7 km) opened last frid. ^^


----------



## diegobonazzi

I really don't understand why the croatian governement keep on with the construction of the motorways in Istra and totally abandonet the works toward Dubrovnik!
Only when the A1 will reach Dubrovnik Croatia will be a united country and the tourism in the southest region will fully develop.
I hope that when the crisis will calm down they'll make a new road map for the construction which forseen to complete the A1 within the 2014.


----------



## Zanovijetalo

Istarski Y is one of few sections under concession (BINA Istra), so is financed by them, not the government. 

Of course we all hope motorway will reach Dubrovnik asap, but budget cut-downs caused by the crisis dictate things there.


----------



## H123Laci

Zanovijetalo said:


> Wow are you a _bridgeologist_ or something, Laci



Im not, but I like bridges, especially arch ones... they are the jewels of the road network... 

and you have very nice arch bridges... 



> That old one should be the Kosinj bridge


yeah, thats it, thanx...


----------



## KHS

H123Laci said:


> what about the old/rebuilt maslenica bridge?























H123Laci said:


> Im not, but I like bridges, especially arch ones... they are the jewels of the road network...
> 
> and you have very nice arch bridges...


Then this is perfect thread for you... [Croatia] - Mostogradnja




:cheers:


----------



## H123Laci

KHS said:


> Then this is perfect thread for you... [Croatia] - Mostogradnja


thanx, there are phantastic photos of phantastic bridges... 

(so you get that video from that thread... :lol


----------



## KHS

Yes


----------



## ivan_ri

H123Laci said:


> 5. Kamacnik bridge on A1


just a small correction. this one is on A6 :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Is anyone familiar with the opening dates of Autocesta A4? All I can find on Wikipedia is that the last section opened in 2008. Especially the Croatian-language Wikipedia article is a stub.


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is anyone familiar with the opening dates of Autocesta A4? All I can find on Wikipedia is that the last section opened in 2008. Especially the Croatian-language Wikipedia article is a stub.


you mean exact dates or years? exact dates would take me longer to find, years are here: 

Popovec - Sveta Helena 1996
Čakovec - Goričan 1997
Varaždin - Čakovec 1998
Sveta Helena - Komin 1998
Komin - Breznički Hum 2000
Breznički Hum - Varaždin 2003
Goričan - HR/H border 2008

for 6 km long section Ivanja Reka - Popovec i am not sure, it was built in 1980es as expressway, and was reconstructed in early 2000s (i think in 2003) as full profile


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^ Thanks a lot!


----------



## diegobonazzi

I'll travel the route Rupa-Rijeka-Bosiljevo-Ravca on friday 21th may.

Do there are some problems (ex. closure) on the A6/7 or on the A1?


----------



## x-type

diegobonazzi said:


> I'll travel the route Rupa-Rijeka-Bosiljevo-Ravca on friday 21th may.
> 
> Do there are some problems (ex. closure) on the A6/7 or on the A1?


there are some works (actually, quite some on A6), but no problems


----------



## KHS

*A6*


----------



## KHS

This movie is not exactly for this thread but you can see Zagreb's road infrastructure.


----------



## hofburg

thanks for that video. A6 bosiljevo - ostrovica is my favourite croatian motorway.


----------



## Puležan

Here are some photos of A9 and A8, which are being upgrated to full-profile. The A9 section from Pula to Kanfanar is finished, but it will be opened in june...


----------



## Puležan

Here is the B8/A8 section from Kanfanar to Pazin...


----------



## x-type

because people who are hired for that don't know their job. the largest non-sense is on expressway D28 Sveta Helena - Gradec: older part had 100 km/h. than came new law and they've changed it into 110 km/h. few years later new section was built and they have put, you guess, 100 km/h. it still stands there. 
btw, on D1 Split - Dugopolje u wouldn't put more than 90, maybe 100, especially going down. descent is simply to steep.


----------



## pijanec

^^That's why there is a rule that you always have to adapt your speed to circumstances. For example, on Graz-Wien motorway there is a very steep descent. It has a general speed limit of 130 km/h although some curves are so tight that you can't drive more than 110 km/h.

Also, on Varaždin bypass signs still show 80 km/h. :nuts::nuts:


----------



## x-type

actually, I have seen only few times 90 km/h limit on non-expressway D-roads. precisely, 2 times: D55 near Vinkovci and D2 near Đurđevac. 80 is very common. idiots.


----------



## darko06

For example, there is a speed limit 110 kmh on a whole A6. Ok, you have ascent and descent ramps, but let's say from the eastern portal of tunnel Tuhobić to the western portal of tunnel Čardak (near to the Tifon petrol station Ravna gora) there is 20-25 km length with that speed limit, even the design speed of that part is 130 kmh. That's why I'm going from Zagreb to Poreč through Slovenia (with annual vignette).

And what about that nonsense (Croatian part of the Ljubljana-Zagreb motorway, exits Bobovica and Sveta nedelja):


----------



## Puležan

darko06 said:


> For example, there is a speed limit 110 kmh on a whole A6. Ok, you have ascent and descent ramps, but let's say from the eastern portal of tunnel Tuhobić to the western portal of tunnel Čardak (near to the Tifon petrol station Ravna gora) there is 20-25 km length with that speed limit, even the design speed of that part is 130 kmh. That's why I'm going from Zagreb to Poreč through Slovenia (with annual vignette).


Once I called the ARZ (info-phone number 0800 0111) and asked why the speed limit on A6 is 100 (somewhere 110 km/h), and they told me that's because of numerous tunnels close to each other. In tunnels the speed limit is 100, so in that case the speed would vary from 100 to 130 very often.

Someone also asked about D1 speed limit of 80 km/h. That picture is taken on the end of D1 expressway, where you can go to A1 or continue to the north (Dicmo, Knin, Zg), so that's why the limit is so low. When second carriageway would be finished, the limit would probably be 100, because there won't be 2+1 lanes (as today is), but 3+2:cheers:


----------



## darko06

Puležan;58413113 said:


> ... they told me that's because of numerous tunnels close to each other. In tunnels the speed limit is 100, so in that case the speed would vary from 100 to 130 very often.


That's not correct. Between Delnice and Čardak there is rough about 8 km and just one tunnel (Sopač?) right between in the middle. So you have 2 times about 4 km. As I remember, that tistance is larger than between Grič and the other tunnel on the A1 between Otočac and OMV, and the max speed on that part of A1 between those tunnels is 130 (of course, with the first raindrop max speed is slowed on 100 kmh, :lol::bash::nuts. Such behaviour in Slovenia doesn't exist.

And for the Dicmo-Dugopolje-Solin expw: the 80 speed limit is not only on the 2+1 undivided part, but also on the 2+2 divided part from Klis exchange to Dugopolje exit/roundabout.


----------



## pijanec

^^In Slovenia and also in Austria for example speed limit of 100 km/h is always cancelled after the tunnel even if tunnels are close to each other and if design speed of road is 120+ km/h. Notable exception is on A1 near Maribor.

In Slovenia we are also not lowering speed limits because of rain, fog or similar.


----------



## x-type

but there are also some 80 km/h speed limits in SLO which could be replaced. for instance, intersections around Ljubljana (those in Y shape in the south). i think in each country you can find stupid limits, somewhere more, somewhere less


----------



## ivan_ri

*A7 - Rijeka bypass*

from air :cheers:



gorgoroth said:


> http://www.novilist.hr/Scena/Kultura/zamet-iz-zracne-perspektive-u-ob.aspx





gorgoroth said:


> http://www.novilist.hr/Scena/Kultura/zamet-iz-zracne-perspektive-u-ob.aspx


----------



## ivan_ri

*A7 - Rijeka bypass*

Sv. Kuzam - Krizisce (the easternmost section Kuk-Krizisce)



misipile said:


> Dionica Kuk-Krizisce s D523:


----------



## KHS

*A7*



P.C.Dolabella said:


>


:cheers:


----------



## Puležan

darko06 said:


> That's not correct. Between Delnice and Čardak there is rough about 8 km and just one tunnel (Sopač?) right between in the middle. So you have 2 times about 4 km. As I remember, that tistance is larger than between Grič and the other tunnel on the A1 between Otočac and OMV, and the max speed on that part of A1 between those tunnels is 130 (of course, with the first raindrop max speed is slowed on 100 kmh, :lol::bash::nuts. Such behaviour in Slovenia doesn't exist.
> 
> And for the Dicmo-Dugopolje-Solin expw: the 80 speed limit is not only on the 2+1 undivided part, but also on the 2+2 divided part from Klis exchange to Dugopolje exit/roundabout.


Don't think I disagree with you:cheers:! Just opposite! I think that on all motorways speed limits should be 150, because roads are really good and well designed. But in case of A6 I'm just telling you what they've said to me about the limits.

But I think that on D1 section Klis-Dugopolje, the limit is 80 just because the end of the expressway is near, so people should lower the speed before they continue on "normal" road to Knin (which in the beginning is 2+2-not divided, and after that it's usual 1+1 road) or before they take the exit to go to A1


----------



## diegobonazzi

*MISSION (IM)POSSIBLE*

I have a special mission for the bravest of you!... I'd like to se some pictures of the road 6211 that run from the 6208 through Dusina and Oric-Seoci To Kobiljaca.
This road could be a good shotcut for the next year (when A1 will reach Vrgorac and the exit will be on the 6208 near the village of Vina) in alternative of the E65 Vrgorac-V.Prolog-M.Prolog-Kobiljaca.
But it depends of the widenest of the road and the asphalt conditions of course...
I cannot do this adventure this summer because i'll drive with my THREE childred and with them every minute less of trip is gold!


----------



## ivan_ri

*A7 - Rijeka bypass*

before and after :cheers:



ivan_ri said:


> :cheers:





gorgoroth said:


> http://www.novilist.hr/Scena/Kultura/zamet-iz-zracne-perspektive-u-ob.aspx


----------



## darko06

Puležan, I'm glad you agree. But, on Klis-Dugopolje there should be 100 kmh. It's about 3 km. And another example: do you remember the 110 kmh max speed on Jadranska avenija expwy from the last signal to the Lučko interchange? When they finished new Arena exit instead of the second signal they slowed to 80 the whole part from the signal to the interchange Lučko (direction Rijeka) and in the opposite you have only 200-300 meters 110 kmh, just after the channel Sava-Odra viaduct. :bash:


----------



## seem

pijanec said:


> ^^In Slovenia and also in Austria for example speed limit of 100 km/h is always cancelled after the tunnel even if tunnels are close to each other and if design speed of road is 120+ km/h. Notable exception is on A1 near Maribor.
> 
> In Slovenia we are also not lowering speed limits because of rain, fog or similar.


100 km/h is the best in the tunnel. Our just 80 km/h can be even more dangerous when cars are slowing down before tunnel.

btw, I am very glad to see completed bypass of Rijeka. There were long traffic jams last years and it was realy annoyng to wait on a motorway when the temperature was about 35 °C. :cheers:

_I hope I will go there next month. Ja te volim Hrvatska!  
_


----------



## ChrisZwolle

80 km/h in twin tunnels is too low. Such speeds feel slow, and people are gonna drive close to each other. You can observe similar situations at section controls where there's a 100% chance of getting caught when speeding. Or generally when a truck passes another one, people drive very close to each other on the left lane behind the passing truck. 

Speed limits need to be credible, otherwise nobody follows them when it's really necessary.


----------



## Puležan

ChrisZwolle said:


> ...
> *Speed limits need to be credible, otherwise nobody follows them when it's really necessary*.


That's right! 

That is the problem especially on A6 motorway, but can be seen even on other motorways, because today 130 km/h is relatively slow, cars are getting safer and faster and roads are designed very well, so 150 km/h would be acceptable speed 

The same thing is on A9 - it was first designed as an expressway, but they decided to upgrade it to a full-motorway profile (2+2 with hard shoulders) so because of the curve radiuses the speed is 110  But the road provides speed of at least 130, so nobody will follow the limit


----------



## x-type

HR motorways have excellent cover with dynamic signs, so I really don't understand why don't supervisors use it wisely, while they allready have that opportunity hno:


----------



## Puležan

x-type said:


> HR motorways have excellent cover with dynamic signs, so I really don't understand why don't supervisors use it wisely, while they allready have that opportunity hno:


Exactly! In usual traffic conditions they can leave "normal" speed limits and in case of accident or bad weather conditions, they can just lower the limit on dynamic signs. The idea od that kind of signalization is to derogate the normal signs beside the road in special occasions, but they don't do thathno: Instead of that, they put low speed limits on every road...


----------



## pijanec

What are speed limits on newly opened sections of motorway in Istra?


----------



## pijanec

Puležan said:


> Exactly! In usual traffic conditions they can leave "normal" speed limits and in case of accident or bad weather conditions, they can just lower the limit on dynamic signs.


Neighbourhood countries are not lowering speed limits in case of bad weather. How could people in office even know what should be appropriate speed limit? Also, maybe rain is falling only on short section of motorway. For example, last year when I was driving to Wien, there was a really heady rain on short section and we were all driving 20 km/h, but they still didn't lower speed limits.

Purpose of dynamic signs is to warn people about extraordinary events like accidents, road closures or when there is a lot of traffic to lower speed limits with which you could actually increase traffic flow and average speed.


----------



## x-type

pijanec said:


> What are speed limits on newly opened sections of motorway in Istra?


i think 110 



pijanec said:


> Neighbourhood countries are not lowering speed limits in case of bad weather. How could people in office even know what should be appropriate speed limit? Also, maybe rain is falling only on short section of motorway. For example, last year when I was driving to Wien, there was a really heady rain on short section and we were all driving 20 km/h, but they still didn't lower speed limits.
> 
> Purpose of dynamic signs is to warn people about extraordinary events like accidents, road closures or when there is a lot of traffic to lower speed limits with which you could actually increase traffic flow and average speed.


dynamic signs have automatic setup and as soon as they registre certain amount of rain, they turn on and show set up speed limit. of course, that setup could be changed


----------



## darko06

Actually, such behaviour is a big problem in Croatia. For example, last year (perhaps at early fall) I had entered Sveti Rok tunnel in Zadar direction, normally with 100-105 kmh. Few seconds after, a black limousine (BMW 7xx or Audi A8) has overpassed me with cca 140-150 kmh. Soon after that, the maximum speed was lovered to 40 kmh, with explanation: VIP CONWOY/PRAĆENA KOLONA. So here in Croatia sometimes it may seem that only the politicians and important CEOs are people instead of all us jerks?
And one more thing: why the recordings from surveillance cameras all along Croatian motorways aren't legal proof for speeding accusations? I'm asking myself... (The Croatian Cobra11 invented unique method: soon after exit portal of the Sveti Rok/or Mala Kapela they wait in a motorbike ambush and intercept speeding drivers. I have seen that last year. So what happens when they catch a politician or a state company CEO?)


----------



## darko06

x-type said:


> dynamic signs have automatic setup and as soon as they registre certain amount of rain, they turn on and show set up speed limit. of course, that setup could be changed


So the technicians do not even be at work in the control station. Instead of being present they somewhere smoke a cigarette...hno:


----------



## Puležan

ChrisZwolle said:


> Pula - Vodnjan was already widened to 2x2 on April 30th. This must be Vodnjan - Kanfanar.


The entire section from Kanfanar to Pula was already widened in May, but you couldn't drive on all 4 lanes, because some final works had to be done. 

Today at 4.00 pm is the official opening of that section. From today, you'll have to pay toll (kanfanar-pula 12 kn)


----------



## Puležan

pijanec said:


> What are speed limits on newly opened sections of motorway in Istra?


110 km/h


----------



## darko06

Look at that (from http://www.glasistre.hr/istra/vijest/225354):

"Do 18 sati, kada će se uvesti zatvoreni sustav naplate, vožnja će biti besplatna.
Vožnja će se naplaćivati na naplatnim kućicama iza čvora Pula te na prilazima čvorovima Vodnjan jug i Vodnjan sjever. Podsjećamo, od Pule do Kanfanara naplaćivat će se 12, do Vodnjana sjever šest, a do Vodnjana jug tri kune."

Translation:
"Till 6PM, when the closed toll system will be enforced, driving will be free of charge.
The toll stations will be Pula (ahead from the interchange Pula), Vodnjan-South and Vodnjan-North. The tolls will be from Pula to Kanfanar 12 HRK, to Vodnjan-North 6 HRK and to Vodnjan-South 3 HRK."

This is *NOT* a closed toll system. What about Kanfanar toll station?


----------



## darko06

And of course, about this:


> 110 km/h


I could be arguing next 100 replies, but I won't.


----------



## Puležan

darko06 said:


> Look at that (from http://www.glasistre.hr/istra/vijest/225354):
> 
> "Do 18 sati, kada će se uvesti zatvoreni sustav naplate, vožnja će biti besplatna.
> Vožnja će se naplaćivati na naplatnim kućicama iza čvora Pula te na prilazima čvorovima Vodnjan jug i Vodnjan sjever. Podsjećamo, od Pule do Kanfanara naplaćivat će se 12, do Vodnjana sjever šest, a do Vodnjana jug tri kune."
> 
> Translation:
> "Till 6PM, when the closed toll system will be enforced, driving will be free of charge.
> The toll stations will be Pula (ahead from the interchange Pula), Vodnjan-South and Vodnjan-North. The tolls will be from Pula to Kanfanar 12 HRK, to Vodnjan-North 6 HRK and to Vodnjan-South 3 HRK."
> 
> This is *NOT* a closed toll system. What about Kanfanar toll station?


It's a temporary toll-system which will be replaced next year, when the entire A9 from Umag to Pula will be finished.
This is the pricelist:


----------



## Puležan

darko06 said:


> And of course, about this:
> 110 km/h
> I could be arguing next 100 replies, but I won't.


We can argue about that until tomorrow, but it is what it is! The law makes regulations, and the regulation says that road with lane-width of 3,5m must have limit 110 km/h. That's the consequence of planning the Istrian Y at the beginning as an expresswayhno:


----------



## darko06

So, I'll try to deduce:
When you enter toll booths without the ticket, wou'll be treated just as arriving from Kanfanar? Isn't it weird, especially for seniors from Western Europe? Couldn't be arranged a temporary toll station near Kanfanar?


----------



## darko06

Why the village of Bale doesn't have an exit on a new motorway?


----------



## Puležan

darko06 said:


> So, I'll try to deduce:
> When you enter toll booths without the ticket, wou'll be treated just as arriving from Kanfanar? Isn't it weird, especially for seniors from Western Europe? Couldn't be arranged a temporary toll station near Kanfanar?


that's right. And if you enter on the Vodnjan-south entrance and exit at Pula, you'll have to pay 9 kn, and when you come to Pula toll-station they will return you 6 kn (kanfanar-vodnjan south is 9 kn, vodnjan south-pula is 3). 

It's a very weard system, but no one goes from vodnjan to pula on A9 (the old road is good and shorter), so it wouldn't be so complicated.

But, I repeat, it's just temporarily, until the whole A9 is finished


----------



## Puležan

darko06 said:


> Why the village of Bale doesn't have an exit on a new motorway?


because you cannot have exits for every village. From Kanfanar exit to Bale there is a state road D21, which is good and it's not a long distance (11 km from Kanfanar to Bale). In other direction, Bale-Pula, you can go on the same road, it takes about 15-20 min


----------



## x-type

darko06 said:


> Actually, such behaviour is a big problem in Croatia. For example, last year (perhaps at early fall) I had entered Sveti Rok tunnel in Zadar direction, normally with 100-105 kmh. Few seconds after, a black limousine (BMW 7xx or Audi A8) has overpassed me with cca 140-150 kmh. Soon after that, the maximum speed was lovered to 40 kmh, with explanation: VIP CONWOY/PRAĆENA KOLONA. So here in Croatia sometimes it may seem that only the politicians and important CEOs are people instead of all us jerks?
> And one more thing: why the recordings from surveillance cameras all along Croatian motorways aren't legal proof for speeding accusations? I'm asking myself... (The Croatian Cobra11 invented unique method: soon after exit portal of the Sveti Rok/or Mala Kapela they wait in a motorbike ambush and intercept speeding drivers. I have seen that last year. So what happens when they catch a politician or a state company CEO?)


**** it, i also hate fat assholes in black luxury cars. they have similar privileges all around the world.

btw, i have never had problems with our cobras and i think they're doing their job fine. people are usually complaining when they really screw things (people, not cobras). they will never touch you unless you're going really fast (160+). unfortunately, black lemos with blue and red flashing lights have imunity.


darko06 said:


> So the technicians do not even be at work in the control station. Instead of being present they somewhere smoke a cigarette...hno:


ask www.hac.hr 
they are supervising motorways, but signs are automatic (at least they say so)


----------



## mgk920

Puležan said:


> It's a temporary toll-system which will be replaced next year, when the entire A9 from Umag to Pula will be finished.
> This is the pricelist:


What are these rates translated into Euros?

Mike


----------



## x-type

mgk920 said:


> What are these rates translated into Euros?
> 
> Mike


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=eur+hrk


(sorry, i couldn't resist  )


----------



## toonczyk

mgk920 said:


> What are these rates translated into Euros?


Divide by 7 and you get the price in euros (roghly). 4 kunas is ~55 eurocents.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

x-type said:


> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=eur+hrk
> 
> 
> (sorry, i couldn't resist  )


It's even easier with Google.

Simply type:

10 HRK to EUR

and you'll get

10 Croatian kune = 1.38955671 Euros


----------



## x-type

i know that. but if HR find option through its teritory (thus it would bring more development to that area), i don't see the reason why wouldn't we build it only on our teritory.


----------



## eucitizen

Some time ago I read that BIH was blocking the construction of A1 towards Dubrovnik through her territory. Is that issue now solved?
Another question, between Dubrovnik and Montenegro is planned just a 4 lanes road, not a motorway, isn't´it?


----------



## Zanovijetalo

diegobonazzi said:


> I think that, in this period of crisis, is time to leave out political issues (war was over 15 years ago) and to connect Dubrovnik to the rest of the world.


I respect your views but don’t agree with them. Dubrovnik *must* have a connection with the rest of Croatia through our own territory.



eucitizen said:


> Some time ago I read that BIH was blocking the construction of A1 towards Dubrovnik through her territory. Is that issue now solved?
> Another question, between Dubrovnik and Montenegro is planned just a 4 lanes road, not a motorway, isn't´it?


The issue was about the Pelješac bridge that should connect two separate parts of Croatia in front of BH town of Neum. BH wanted to block the bridge “to enable ships to dock in Neum”. Neum has no serious port but the bridge in the project was lift up nevertheless. Many things around here turn into political and irrational dimension easily. Also a rational solution would be to have A1 build through that stretch of BH behind Neum, but somehow don’t think it will be agreed. Not sure about the connection with Montenegro; many things are yet to be defined.


----------



## eucitizen

So you mean that A1 will be built till the border, in BIH nothing and then again it will continue to Dubrovnik?
That bridge would skip the BIH territory, interesting.


----------



## TheFlyPL

Hi there!

Where does the highway to Dubrovnik end now?


----------



## Zanovijetalo

eucitizen said:


> So you mean that A1 will be built till the border, in BIH nothing and then again it will continue to Dubrovnik?
> That bridge would skip the BIH territory, interesting.


Officially, A1 will go across this bridge and will skip BH. Once it reaches Pelješac peninsula it will continue to Dubrovnik following Croatian coast.




TheFlyPL said:


> Hi there!
> 
> Where does the highway to Dubrovnik end now?


It reached Ravča near Vrgorac town, cca 80 km south of Split exit

http://www.hac.hr/?task=aut


----------



## KHS

TBoy said:


> Dao sam si truda pa složio grafički prikaz razvoj naše AC mreže. Ako uočite grešku vičite, ja imam par pitanja ali to ostavljam za poslje jer sad nemam vremena. Pa kad to sredimo možda još malo uljepšam prezentaciju. Bilo bi super kad bi netko mogao skenirati novu kartu jer na ovoj neke dionice moram ucrtavati otprilike.



:applause:


----------



## Bad_Hafen

x-type said:


> not really, *it is also mountainous*. the only difference is that in BIH there is more free space for motorway (it is not that narrow as southern HR).
> issue is that if motorway would pass through BIH, BIH should fund it. it is so simple.
> on the other hand, imagine if there were not A4 and A23 yet. what would you think about Palmanova - Trieste through Slovenia before Schengen times?


No it is not it should go trough Popovo plane.


----------



## hofburg

just of out curiosity, why were those two sections of A1 (bosiljevo - mala kapela, udbina - zadar) built first?


----------



## darko06

Because the Maslenica motorway bridge (full profile) was finished in 1997, and the western tube of the Sveti Rok tunnel was drilled in 1999. There was at that time some earth works finished on the Maslenica-Zadar 2 section (full profile, i think), so they decided to finish the Gornja Ploča-Zadar 2 section, to improve the Zagreb-Zadar direction.


----------



## darko06

I think the Ploče-Dubrovnik section will be some kind of 2x2 expressway, and hopefully the Pelješac bridge too. At this time Croatia doesn't posess sufficient amount of money to finance any motorway project on the neighbour territory, especially on the territory of the Republika Srpska (Popovo polje). Not to mention that from 2013 onwards there be a Schengen regime on the Croatia-Bosnia&Herzegovina border. So, if the European union wants to build Adriatic-Ionian motorway through Popovo polje, it should finance it.


----------



## darko06

And excuse me, but Croatia (and Slovenia too) financed a lot of highway construction in the so-called "underdeveloped republics" of the former Yugoslavia (Bosnia, Serbia, Kosovo, Montenegro, Macedonia) with the money from tourism before the break-up, so now is the time to stop with such a practice.


----------



## darko06

I heard some rumors that Republika Srpska is in the excellent financial condition, so it should finance their own motorway (and highway) construction. And to reach Popovo polje walley (which is at about 250 m above the sea level) from let's say Metković, you should build the so called Svitava tunnel (about 5-6 km length), and again from Trebinje you should climb on about 500 m a.s.l. to reach Dubrovnik (because equal tunnel should be about 15 km length). So there is no need for an expensive road construction to connect Dubrovnik via Trebinje with the rest of Croatia.


----------



## darko06

I am afraid that from the Bosnian side there allways will be some dispute to build any Croatian motorway on the Bosnian territory. So why should even bother with that? I don't care how they will finance their motorway projects in a foreseable future.


----------



## darko06

Perhaps the Rijeka bypass would be in the full profile at the time of completion the half part in 1987, if Croatia than posessed a full amount of money from tourism.



> No it is not it should go trough Popovo plane.


And I heard the rumors, that Svitava hidro-reversible power plant, and the 11m wide 60 km long water channel through Popovo polje (build in the 1980s) were financed with the money from the famous Zagreb-Split motorway loan in the seventies. So, go away and pay your motorways from your own money!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

^^


----------



## Bad_Hafen

darko06 said:


> And excuse me, but Croatia (and Slovenia too) financed a lot of highway construction in the so-called "underdeveloped republics" of the former Yugoslavia (Bosnia, Serbia, Kosovo, Montenegro, Macedonia) with the money from tourism before the break-up, so now is the time to stop with such a practice.


This story is such BS! Bosnia was the only one from YU republics that didnt get single km of motorway!


darko06 said:


> I heard some rumors that Republika Srpska is in the excellent financial condition, so it should finance their own motorway (and highway) construction. And to reach Popovo polje walley (which is at about 250 m above the sea level) from let's say Metković, you should build the so called Svitava tunnel (about 5-6 km length), and again from Trebinje you should climb on about 500 m a.s.l. to reach Dubrovnik (because equal tunnel should be about 15 km length). So there is no need for an expensive road construction to connect Dubrovnik via Trebinje with the rest of Croatia.


For Republika Srpska this motorway is 0 (zero) priority. 


darko06 said:


> And I heard the rumors, that Svitava hidro-reversible power plant, and the 11m wide 60 km long water channel through Popovo polje (build in the 1980s) were financed with the money from the famous Zagreb-Split motorway loan in the seventies. So, go away and pay your motorways from your own money!


I have heard that motorway Zagreb-Slavonski Brod was financed from the money earned from Bosnian electricity export. :nuts:


----------



## panda80

I think Croatia should finance the motorway through BIH because it is in its interest to do so. Building the motorway through BIH is probably cheaper and is better for the future development of the croatian towns on the seaside. Also, Bosnia has no interest in this motorway, as it links nothing on its territory. However, Bosnia should finance any exit on its soil.


----------



## rarse

panda80 said:


> Bosnia has no interest in this motorway, as it links nothing on its territory. However, Bosnia should finance any exit on its soil.


:?


----------



## bozata90

^^ panda80 is basically suggesting what i would do in this case - a motorway without exits on Bosnian soil with protective fences to prevent illegal border crossing. However, if the Bosnians decide to build an exit on their soil, they will have to pay it with the adjacent border-crossing infrastructure. This way you do not have to be checked two times for a travel to Croatia...


----------



## panda80

rarse said:


> :?


I meant that if the bosnians want to make any access (motorway exit) to a village or a town in Bosnia, they should finance it. But the motorway has to be financed by croatians.


----------



## hofburg

darko06 said:


> Because the Maslenica motorway bridge (full profile) was finished in 1997, and the western tube of the Sveti Rok tunnel was drilled in 1999. There was at that time some earth works finished on the Maslenica-Zadar 2 section (full profile, i think), so they decided to finish the Gornja Ploča-Zadar 2 section, to improve the Zagreb-Zadar direction.


I knew about maslenica, but didn't know that sv. rok tunnel was that early already. So how old are actually plans for A1?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I still think it is also in the interest of Bosnia, for example from Bihac to southeastern Bosnia, it would be much faster using Croatian A1 than to use country roads through Bosnia, mountainous as it is. 

I don't think it's reasonable to expect from Croatia to provide 100% of the funding on Bosnian soil, but I do think it's fair if construction costs are split over both governments. 

I see my old plan of an A1 through Bosnia with border checkpoints at exits have resurfaced


----------



## rarse

panda80 said:


> But the motorway has to be financed by croatians.


plus commission to Bosnia I guess


----------



## rarse

Oh Chris, why should politicians throw away the golden thema about bridge "Peljesac" if that "news how they started to build a bridge" adds votes every time before the elections.


----------



## x-type

panda80 said:


> I think Croatia should finance the motorway through BIH because it is in its interest to do so. Building the motorway through BIH is probably cheaper and is better for the future development of the croatian towns on the seaside. Also, Bosnia has no interest in this motorway, as it links nothing on its territory. However, Bosnia should finance any exit on its soil.


why do you think it is impossible to build motorway through HR teritory?


----------



## KHS

*Zagreb bypass*



dadekhr said:


>


:cheers:


----------



## KHS

*Bakar*



gorgoroth said:


> Ovako bakrani vide čvor na Kuzmu


:cheers:


----------



## KHS

nice romanian vid showing A1 motorway.


----------



## x-type

KHS said:


> :cheers:


omg who has photoshopped the view of the city in the background?! :lol:


----------



## panda80

x-type said:


> why do you think it is impossible to build motorway through HR teritory?


I didn't said impossible, but harder. If you look at A1, it is build mainly on "polje" behind the coastal mountains. Now, the polje is in BIH.


----------



## Zanovijetalo

Makes sense but, again, we want it built through _our own_ territory.

Please?


----------



## seem

Bok, where I can find Autocesta A1: Zagreb-Split in original size and on one tape? 



> Autocesta A1: Zagreb-Split
> 
> (dn 1 od 8, Zagreb-Karlovac) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q_eW1r2P7Y&feature=related
> (dn. 2 od 8, Karlovac-Bosiljevo) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llVzMMA0btU&feature=related
> (dn. 3 od 8, Bosiljevo-tunel MK) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrI_EcbHrCk&feature=related
> (dn. 4 od 8, Mala K-Gacko polje) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoZHnAN_qvU&feature=related
> (dn. 5 od 8, Gacko polje-Gospić) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKTA1FN6p-E&feature=related
> (dn. 6 od 8, Gospić-Sv. Rok) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUwW1E88Rn4&feature=related
> (dn. 7 od 8, Sv. Rok-most Krk) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-JJQAW1Ngk
> (dn. 8 od 8, most Krk-Split) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsFsL8SjNMg&feature=related


----------



## KHS

^^

hm... I think it is going to be very hard to find it. Maybe some other forumers will know.

I just love this section!






I pass this section 3-4 times a month and I still get impressed... 

Here it is from the car...






This is my struma!


:cheers:


----------



## seem

KHS said:


> ^^
> 
> hm... I think it is going to be very hard to find it. Maybe some other forumers will know.
> 
> I just love this section!


Thank you, I hope to get it.

It`s also my favourite. I love especially when I can see seaside and a rising sun after 600 kilometres on a motorway. Just so wonderful! :cheers:


----------



## Bad_Hafen

panda80 said:


> I think Croatia should finance the motorway through BIH because it is in its interest to do so. Building the motorway through BIH is probably cheaper and is better for the future development of the croatian towns on the seaside. Also, Bosnia has no interest in this motorway, as it links nothing on its territory. However, Bosnia should finance any exit on its soil.


Croatia would never agree. 



bozata90 said:


> ^^ panda80 is basically suggesting what i would do in this case - a motorway without exits on Bosnian soil with protective fences to prevent illegal border crossing. However, if the Bosnians decide to build an exit on their soil, they will have to pay it with the adjacent border-crossing infrastructure. This way you do not have to be checked two times for a travel to Croatia...


Chausesku is alive :nuts:


x-type said:


> why do you think it is impossible to build motorway through HR teritory?


off course it is possible but very expensive and with so much bad influence on environment. You know that.


----------



## x-type

Bad_Hafen said:


> Croatia would never agree.
> 
> 
> Chausesku is alive :nuts:
> 
> off course it is possible but very expensive and with so much bad influence on environment. You know that.


not true.


----------



## Bad_Hafen

what is not true? Care to explain?


----------



## panda80

Bad_Hafen said:


> what is not true? Care to explain?


Maybe that Ceausescu is alive? :lol:


----------



## x-type

Bad_Hafen said:


> what is not true? Care to explain?


enviromental influence. i don't see why would be it worse that through BIH


----------



## panda80

x-type said:


> enviromental influence. i don't see why would be it worse that through BIH


It will have a bad influence towards tourism. Personally I wouldn't go to a hotel if there is a motorway right next to it.


----------



## Zanovijetalo

Ehm, I didn't expect to hear that from a very active member of the H & A section!

Chris, ban him >: D


----------



## Verso

A fenced motorway through BIH wouldn't make sense, if it crossed it for more than a few kms. BIH wouldn't accept it anyway, only through Neum.


----------



## Bad_Hafen

x-type said:


> enviromental influence. i don't see why would be it worse that through BIH


well than you are maybe motorway expert but not environment expert. There were studies that said that motorway would have awful influence for environment south of Peljesac and especially on Dubrovnik. I am confused that you dont know that.


----------



## panda80

Zanovijetalo said:


> Ehm, I didn't expect to hear that from a very active member of the H & A section!
> 
> Chris, ban him >: D


You know, I like motorways very much, but when I'm on holiday I prefer more pure no polluted areas. On holidays I drive many secondary mountainous roads in order to better explore the areas I'm passing. And when there is a good alternative I don't see why it can't be taken into consideration. Probably a custom union between Croatia and Bosnia will solve the problem a fenced motorway represents. It will also provide good budget savings, as there are so many border crossings.


----------



## x-type

panda80 said:


> It will have a bad influence towards tourism. Personally I wouldn't go to a hotel if there is a motorway right next to it.


no, there are none plans where motorway would go next to your hotel. hotels are in the city and on the seaside, motorway would be...
am i at all supposed to answer that stupidity?! if D8, which today carries all that traffic, doesn't disturb tourism, why would A1, which would pass 5 km farer?! the only narrow place is near Župa Dubrovačka, but motorway would be hidden behind the hill there, too.

try to google about former railroad in Dubrovnik. A1 could without any problems follow its route. so if railroad could have been built in those scary mountains, why wouldnt a motorway be, too? and railroads have ascents and descents in promiles...



Bad_Hafen said:


> well than you are maybe motorway expert but not environment expert. There were studies that said that motorway would have awful influence for environment south of Peljesac and especially on Dubrovnik. I am confused that you dont know that.


where are those studies? links please.


----------



## diegobonazzi

:eek2::eek2::eek2:...former railroad in Dubrovnik...:eek2::eek2::eek2:

mmm... so interesting! i didn't know that! do you have a map of the route of this railway or a link to see it!
Please, help! I have to see it!


----------



## x-type

diegobonazzi said:


> :eek2::eek2::eek2:...former railroad in Dubrovnik...:eek2::eek2::eek2:
> 
> mmm... so interesting! i didn't know that! do you have a map of the route of this railway or a link to see it!
> Please, help! I have to see it!


i will pm you some interesting links. it was narrow gauge railway, closed in 1968 (that year is so sad for railfans - many railroads were closed then in Croatia)


----------



## KHS

Can you send me these links? I have to see this!

Thanks


----------



## diegobonazzi

See what kind of awful campaign they're doing:
http://www.novilist.hr/Vijesti/Novosti/autocesta-bez-auta.aspx

It seem they prepair the ground to tell us that is better not to build the motorway until Dubrovnik!!! Just not to admit they made such mistakes and lost (stolen?) so much money in the previous years...

I can imagine that the traffic until Ravca is so small and whoever went there knows that you're put on a terrible local road so many people still exit at Sestanovac and drive along the cost. But when there will be a real motorway at least until Ploce the traffic will increase immediatelly.


----------



## ivan_ri

diegobonazzi said:


> See what kind of awful campaign they're doing:
> http://www.novilist.hr/Vijesti/Novosti/autocesta-bez-auta.aspx
> 
> It seem they prepair the ground to tell us that is better not to build the motorway until Dubrovnik!!! Just not to admit they made such mistakes and lost (stolen?) so much money in the previous years...
> 
> I can imagine that the traffic until Ravca is so small and whoever went there knows that you're put on a terrible local road so many people still exit at Sestanovac and drive along the cost. But when there will be a real motorway at least until Ploce the traffic will increase immediatelly.


^^you shouldn't bother with this journalist... facts are twisted in almost every article he writes.

his job is to write negative on every project, so he lost his credibility with all motorway fans in cratian section of SSC


----------



## hofburg

but on A1 traffic is really quite low. but however that motorway should exist as it is a part of tourist infrastructure.


----------



## ivan_ri

it is also very important for further development of port of ploče :cheers:


----------



## KHS

hofburg said:


> but on A1 traffic is really quite low. but however that motorway should exist as it is a part of tourist infrastructure.


Yes, but the main reason is that it ends nowhere IMO.
Now it takes to much time to get to highway if you go somewhere not to far.
But I think this will change when A1 reaches Ploče.


----------



## Bad_Hafen

x-type said:


> no, there are none plans where motorway would go next to your hotel. hotels are in the city and on the seaside, motorway would be...
> am i at all supposed to answer that stupidity?! if D8, which today carries all that traffic, doesn't disturb tourism, why would A1, which would pass 5 km farer?! the only narrow place is near Župa Dubrovačka, but motorway would be hidden behind the hill there, too.
> 
> try to google about former railroad in Dubrovnik. A1 could without any problems follow its route. so if railroad could have been built in those scary mountains, why wouldnt a motorway be, too? and railroads have ascents and descents in promiles...
> 
> 
> where are those studies? links please.


there are places where Croatian territory is only 500m, so how would you solve that?
and off course motorway destroys environment after all it is f...ing ugly to watch it from the beach. 
btw former railroad route gous next to houses trough the city. 
For those studies you should google your meida.


----------



## bubach_hlubach

Why would anyone on that beach (if there are any after all) bother to stare at the motorway behind their backs when they have the beautiful Adriatic sea right ahead of them splashing their feet? :banana:

:cheers:


----------



## Bad_Hafen

if you are in the water you look at th coast. Or they can close their eyes and not look, just swim.


----------



## ivan_ri

why does that bother you... didn't you say that you will never come to croatian coast :dunno:

and if the motorway is such a problem there is still a lot of coast without motorways near...


----------



## ivan_ri

*A8*

:cheers:



MountMan said:


>


----------



## darko06

Good Hafen, believe me, you're the last person on this whole Earth who will be consulted on anything about Croatian motorways...
Let me put it another way: Croatia shall built neither motorway from A3 to Bosanska Gradiška nor Schengen border crossing near Stara Gradiška. The traffic from Banjaluka to the west in the future may go to the Sredanci, or perhaps better, to the Županja Schengen border crossing.


----------



## ivan_ri

probably because idea of rijeka bypass is 30 years old... ond back then this entire area was Rijeka municipality 

I'm surprised you don't know that


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I wouldn't consider anything further than the D404 to be part of the Rijeka bypass.


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> I wouldn't consider anything further than the D404 to be part of the Rijeka bypass.


actually, i would consider it as it is built today, so up to Bakar (because straight south from Bakar at that little penninsula you can see Rijeka's industrial area)

@ivan_ri: you cannot identify ex Rijeka county (zajednica općina) with city of Rijeka.


----------



## ivan_ri

^^rijeka county (zajednica opcina) is all this light blue/cyan area (all istria and nowdays primorsko-goranska county)... but former rijeka municipality is only this



I'm just saying that what's now called Rijeka bypass was included in former Rijeka municipality. that's probably why it is called so. :cheers:


----------



## diegobonazzi

zezi said:


> For your eyes only


THANK YOU!!! IT DOESN' LOOK BAD... I'LL TRY IT WHEN FINALLY THEY'LL OPEN THE VRGORAC EXIT... CIAO


----------



## KHS

*A6 - Stara Sušica viaduct*



by MountMan

*A6 - Bajer bridge*



by MountMan

:cheers:


----------



## Manolo_B2

^^ looks like canada...


----------



## Halitophobe

I heard somewhere about expressway u/c btween split and knin via sinj (D1). Does anyone know anything to back this up?


----------



## x-type

Halitophobe said:


> I heard somewhere about expressway u/c btween split and knin via sinj (D1). Does anyone know anything to back this up?


D1 is actually 4-lane expressway between Split and Dicmo. of course there are some plans of further upgrading. realization - who knows


----------



## msz2

^^Beautiful landscapes and nice bridges.


----------



## Halitophobe

Nice bridges, yes!









Is it just me or do we in Croatia have a thing for Concrete arch bridges.


----------



## Halitophobe

*e.g.*

Krk Bridge
Krka Bridge
Malsenica Bridge
Pag Bridge...


----------



## x-type

we do have it indeed because we have good engineers for that kind of bridges. and tradition, too. unfortunately, our engineers suck in suspension bridges 

you have more nice concrete arch bridges in HR


----------



## rimorski

i think arch bridges could be cheaper to build on karst terrain and soil than suspended bridges.


----------



## Halitophobe

> i think arch bridges could be cheaper to build on karst terrain and soil than suspended bridges.


Also, a suspension bridge would only be used for a long bridge (e.g. >500m). Concrete arch bridges also just fit in with the environment more, especialy on the coast were white rock forms most of the land.


----------



## x-type

that's right. arch bridges are usually suitable up to cca 400 metres barriers (what would mean some 700 metres max lenght), while suspension bridges are suitable for much longer barriers (cca 1000 metres). between that are placed cablye stayed bridges which are suitable for larger spectrum of lenghts because that type of bridges has a plenty of varieties.


----------



## european_driver

Some photos under construction section A1 Ravča - Ploče

Under construction sections on the map:
http://motorways.eu/?Country=HR&Road=A1_HR

More photos on my private site: http://motorways.eu/en/photos.aspx?Country=HR&Obj=autocesta%20A1


----------



## KHS

*Rijeka bypass*


by gorgoroth



by gorgoroth



by gorgoroth



by gorgoroth



by gorgoroth



by gorgoroth

:cheers:


----------



## KHS

*Istrian Y upgrade*


by gorgoroth



by gorgoroth



by gorgoroth



by gorgoroth



by gorgoroth



by gorgoroth

:cheers:


----------



## Halitophobe

Nice pics. Haven't actually used Istarski Ipsilon in the last 6 years so could somebody pls tell me which sections are full profile (4 lanes) and which are half profile (2 lanes) as of Oct 2010


----------



## x-type

yes


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Practicing for Yugoslav engineers


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> Practicing for Yugoslav engineers


actually, it was built only by Croatian engineers. Yugoslav were able to make only 40 km's of motorway up to Karlovac, and after that they took the funds secured for extending that motorway to the south for some other projects, mostly in Serbia.

why viaduct? it goes over river Kupa valley, in which it overpasses 2 railroads, 3 roads and a river. those roads, railroads and river are placed in that way so it would go too much up and down if they would make it with individual overpasses. and it would hardly be possible because river is too close to 2 roads. so this was the most economic solution.


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## Bad_Hafen

x-type said:


> actually, it was built only by Croatian engineers. Yugoslav were able to make only 40 km's of motorway up to Karlovac, and after that they took the funds secured for extending that motorway to the south for some other projects, mostly in Serbia.
> .


Don´t spread BSs and lies here on forum.
Head of Yugoslavia was Croat so...


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## x-type

it is not a lie. it is true that money for building motorway Zagreb - Split was spent for building raliroad Beograd - Bar, which is also fabolous project. today's A1 had temporary ending in Karlovac for 30 years. exit Karlovac was from the beginning built as knot. on the picture below is signed with red what was built in 70es. why wasn't it built further till 2000es - only mr god knows.


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## Bad_Hafen

x-type said:


> *it is not a lie. it is true that money for building motorway Zagreb - Split was spent for building raliroad Beograd - Bar*, which is also fabolous project. today's A1 had temporary ending in Karlovac for 30 years. exit Karlovac was from the beginning built as knot. on the picture below is signed with red what was built in 70es. why wasn't it built further till 2000es - only mr god knows.


it is myth and classical war propaganda. 
Do you or anyone has proof of something like that? off course no, you are just repeating war propaganda from 90´s. 

why didn´t BiH get 1 of motorway in YU? Why weren´t 2 biggest Serbian town connected with motorway and terrain is flat 0 obstacles in engineering sense?


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## darko06

^^
You're an ignorant.
You should know that it has been decided before 1971, that route from Belgrade to Novi Sad was to be built as first full motorway (2x2) in the Socialist Republic of Serbia, similarly as the route from Zagreb to Karlovac as first full motorway in the Socialist Republic of Croatia, and similarly as the route from Vrhnika to Razdrto as the first full motorway in Socialis Republic of Slovenia.
Then in 1971, Tito took from power all the so called "liberal" communist leaders, included Stane Kavčič in Slovenia (that event was then called the "road affair" (Cestna afera)), Savka Dabčević Kučar in Croatia and Latinka Perović in Serbia. And what happened? Slovenes and Croats were forced to cease the construction of their motorways (Slovenia at Postojna and Croatia in Karlovac). In Serbia in the year 1971 there was no motorway, so the new Serbian leadership has decided that the route from Belgrade to Novi Sad will be constructed as a semi-motorway (in Serbian: poluautoput).
So educate yourself!


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## H123Laci

x-type said:


> why viaduct? it goes over river Kupa valley, in which it overpasses 2 railroads, 3 roads and a river. those roads, railroads and river are placed in that way so it would go too much up and down if they would make it with individual overpasses.


up and down?

why?

this viaduct is not too high (10m?), so a cheap embankment would be enough between the "overpasses", wouldnt it?


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## x-type

H123Laci said:


> up and down?
> 
> why?
> 
> this viaduct is not too high (10m?), so a cheap embankment would be enough between the "overpasses", wouldnt it?


in that case you would have or red variant with 2 viaducts, cca 1200 and 800 metres long, with gap of some 400 metres between, or green variant (which would actually hardly be possible because Kupa is almost in the same level with terrain there, and terrain is very flat in that valley). the viaduct was not that much expensive, and there was no need for dike to reduce the costs. and viaduct is always better solution that dike.


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## darko06

^^
All of you should also know that initial project from the eighties obtained no such viaduct, instead of it there were proposed three minor viaducts: first, for the interchange Karlovac; second, for the railroads Karlovac-Zagreb; Karlovac-Metlika and Karlovac-Sisak, and third, for the Kupa river. Then, in the nineties, City of Karlovac objected that initial route of motorway would break the city into two halves and stop developement of the city to the north. First proposal to resolve that objection was a southern new route (with the junction to City of Duga Resa), but such an idea had two bad implications:
1. new route would had to be about 15 km (9 miles) longer than the old one;
2. new route would had to cease about 10 km (6 miles) of existed motorway (from the interchange Karlovac to the recent gas area Draganić respectively) converting it to the city expresway of City of Karlovac.
Therefore, the bipartisan agreement between the City of Karlovac and the Croatian government has been reached: the government has build nearly a 3 km (2 miles) long viaduct, but as an expressway: this viaduct HAS NO HARD SHOULDERS and therefore the maximum speed on it is 100 kmh.hno:


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## Bad_Hafen

darko06 said:


> ^^
> You're an ignorant.
> You should know that it has been decided before 1971, that route from Belgrade to Novi Sad *was to be built *as first full motorway (2x2) in the Socialist Republic of Serbia, similarly as the route from Zagreb to Karlovac as first full motorway in the Socialist Republic of Croatia, and similarly as the route from Vrhnika to Razdrto as the first full motorway in Socialis Republic of Slovenia.
> Then in 1971, Tito took from power all the so called "liberal" communist leaders, included Stane Kavčič in Slovenia (that event was then called the "road affair" (Cestna afera)), Savka Dabčević Kučar in Croatia and Latinka Perović in Serbia. And what happened? Slovenes and Croats were forced to cease the construction of their motorways (Slovenia at Postojna and Croatia in Karlovac). In Serbia in the year 1971 there was no motorway, so the new Serbian leadership has decided that the route from Belgrade to Novi Sad will be constructed as a semi-motorway (in Serbian: poluautoput).
> So educate yourself!


so where was that motorway between NS and BG?


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## darko06

And I presume that when the traffic will demand the widening of motorway from Zagreb to Bosiljevo-2 from 2x2 to 2x3 the whole upper plate of that viaduct shall have to be torn down. Instead of existing reinforced concrete they will probably mount a light 2x3 or 2x4 steel frame plate.


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## x-type

darko06 said:


> first, for the interchange Karlovac; second, for the railroads Karlovac-Zagreb; Karlovac-Metlika and Karlovac-Sisak, and third, for the Kupa river.


you have mistaken something here. railroads are Karlovac - Zagreb and Karlovac - Metlika. defunct railroad Karlovac - Sisak passes under A1 which was built in 70es, section Jastrebarsko - Karlovac, right before splitting for Karlovac exit (nearly 1,5 km before exit itself, at the place where you see those ponds at the right side ). first viaduct should be for interchange Karlovac together with railroads Karlovac - Zagreb and Karlovac - Metlika. i really don't see the way to split that one into minor viaducts, mission impossible. you have 2 railroads, interchange's overpass and one road (D505). 
on the other side you have river Kupa with two local roads, each at one side, placed at such distances from the river so they all should be spannes with only one viaduct. i also suspect that version where local roads would pass over the motorway is also impossible because of bridge over river between them (which should be at higher level).


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## darko06

I stated that there *has been* an agreement that the route from Belgrade to Novi Sad *must have been built* as a motorway, but it *wasn't*.


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## darko06

No, actually the defunct railroad Karlovac-Sisak crosses the motorway route two times:
1. at the short viaduct somewhere 2km before Karlovac interchange in the direction to Bosiljevo, together with the regional road, and
2. together with the existing railroad Karlovac-Zagreb.

And for river Kupa:
That short bridge should have been on the lower level, and if you remember, in the sixties they have been built a special water channel which bypasses the Karlovac meander of Kupa river (you have the channel viaduct somewhere 5 km before Karlovac interchange in the direction to Bosiljevo). All the roads (except the old road Zagreb-Karlovac, and the road in the trompet Karlovac interchange) would pass over the motorway.


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## darko06

Legend:
1. the existing channel viaduct
2. the existing short viaduct for the defunct railroad Karlovac-Sisak, together with the regional road
3. the proposed viaduct over the interchange
4. the proposed viaduct over the railroads
5. the proposed river viaduct/bridge
There was a possibility of a greater viaduct instead of 3 and 4


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## x-type

darko06 said:


> No, actually the defunct railroad Karlovac-Sisak crosses the motorway route two times:
> 1. at the short viaduct somewhere 2km before Karlovac interchange in the direction to Bosiljevo, together with the regional road, and
> 2. together with the existing railroad Karlovac-Zagreb.


you are splitting the hairs


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## darko06

who cares ...


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## KHS

Hugo Cross said:


> *A6, Kikovica-Oštrovica*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> arz.hr





Hugo Cross said:


> *A6, Kikovica-Oštrovica*
> 
> Foto: zinder, pticica


:cheers:


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## KHS

*Rijeka bypass*



Boris_ri said:


>


:cheers:


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## x-type

hofburg said:


> what about ravca - makarska, are they building the tunnel already?


it is digged, however, i don't know have they stopped works due to finances, or they are equipping it.


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## zezi

diegobonazzi said:


> I quite know what is Ravca... It's 3 year that I exit motorway there in the nothing...
> What do you think the current exit at Ravca will remain active even when they'll open the real Vrgorac exit? What kind of sense will have the Ravca exit at that time?...


Ravča exit will remain, in future (not too distant i hope) it is planned to build new road from Ravča to Drvenik (D8 on coast) with long tunnel. Untill then i dont think Ravča exit will be very usefull.

Next summer Ravča Vrgorac will be opened. 
We hope to see in summer 2013 A1 & A10 opened (Vrgorac - Mali prolog - HR/BIH border)


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## Kese

prasak said:


> This will be necessary some time in future. It is not a priority now, but it is always good to have long term plans for development. It takes time to define a corridor, change country and county maps and so on. Bringing it up now doesn't mean the work will start any time soon as people would think when they see it on the news. I always enjoyed Hungarian maps that showed their infrastructure plans for the next 30 to 50 years


Well, it is off here, but: could you share with me which Hungarian maps you have enjoyed? Because to me it is pretty obvious that the very opposite is the case, that is, most maps do not show long streches of freeways that have been operational for quite a while. E.g.: the M6-M60 are cca 200 kms and one can find virtually no maps that contain them. Even google does not show them. Same is/was true for the outer sections of M7-M70, M5, M3-M30-M35, etc.


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## prasak

I can't find it in full resolution now but it was a map like this that shows long term plans for road infrastructure (not current situation).


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## JackFrost

@Prasak: ...and here is one from Poland

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DocelowyUkladDrog.svg

Check out the Romanian Topic, there is a new map posted every day with future motorways. So thats nothing unusual I think.


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## Falusi

a bit off but the hungarian one in big resolution: http://img703.imageshack.us/i/kp3e.jpg/


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## KHS

*A1, Ravča - Vrgorac*



zezi said:


> Tunel Umac, nadvožnjak D512 preko A1 i dalje ispod nadvožnjaka
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vijadukt/usjek Paklina kraj Vrgorca s vijaduktom Kokorići



:cheers:


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## veteran

^^ Will it be opened before next summer? 

I would also like to ask several questions:

Is there some progress on section Doli-Dubrovnik
What about sections Ploče-Slivno, Slivno-Neum-Doli (BiH peage) on A1 nad Neretvanska autocesta A10 (IC Metković - Metković, border of BiH)? I've read somewhere that HAC wants to finish them till 2013
Is the building of Pelješki most (and Pelješac expressway) still blocked? I was this summer on Pelješac and I saw there some machines but no workmen.


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## zezi

^^
- We are expecting to be opened next summer but not sure



1. No - lack of funding

2. Ploče - Metković (A1) and Metković HR/BiH Border (A10) - plan is to be finished in summer 2013 but construction havent started yet.





















3. No money - no construction


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## toonczyk

Do you have plans of the section Ravča - Vrgorac? Where will the Vrgorac interchange be situated?


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## zezi

Ravča Vrgorac part 1









Ravča Vrgorac part 2









Vrgorac interchange will be here









Vrgorac Ploče


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## toonczyk

Great, thanks!


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## veteran

One more question about A10 

Will the Section IC Ploče-Port Ploče be a part of A10? Here is marked as a part of A10 but here is written that A10 will be only from the IC Metković to border of BiH and it should be 4,6 km long. But according to this image it seems to be long cca 1 km. 

So what is true?


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## zezi

^^
From IC Ploče to Port of Ploče will not be A10 (D - 425)

A10 will be from IC Metković to border - about 4,6 km long


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## veteran

zezi said:


> ^^
> From IC Ploče to Port of Ploče will not be A10
> 
> A10 will be from IC Metković to border - about 4 km long


Thx for info. I supposed that Ploče IC-Ploče Port won't be a part of A10, because this summer I've seen there blue road signs with number 425. 

On this road is one great "hole" on rocks - prepared space for future _Rest-area Ploče_







Great look! :cheers: Unfortunately I didn't photographed it...


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## veteran

Due to strong wind is the A1 between IC Sveti Rok and Maslenica closed today. How strong could be wind (bura/bora) that it is necessary to close the motorway?


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## ivan_ri

highest recorded wind speed on A1 motorway is 248 km/h and it was recorded on Maslenica bridge... 

and below Velebit there are wind gusts over 300 km/h so we can say that bura is quite strong 

motorway is closed for all traffic after wind speed exceeds 130 km/h :cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

130 km/h is already hurricane force. Many trucks will experience serious problems at such wind speeds and will probably be tipped over.


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## veteran

ivan_ri said:


> highest recorded wind speed on A1 motorway is 248 km/h and it was recorded on Maslenica bridge...
> 
> and below Velebit there are wind gusts over 300 km/h so we can say that bura is quite strong
> 
> motorway is closed for all traffic after wind speed exceeds 130 km/h :cheers:


Wow! Such a strong wind :nuts:

I remember last summer when I drove through A1 that between Maslenica and Sveti Rok (especially on Maslenica Brigde and Božići Viaduct) the speed limit was only 40 kph and on variable signange was written _Bura!_. Strength of wind I can estimate to cca 20 meters per sec. (ca. 72 kph). I stopped on Jasenice rest-area and it was very hard to walk against the wind.

EDIT: I found an article about bura and recorded 248 kph wind on Maslenica Bridge: http://dalje.com/hr-zivot/bura---vjetar-koji-utjece-na-ljude-i-prirodu/229503


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## ivan_ri

ChrisZwolle said:


> 130 km/h is already hurricane force. Many trucks will experience serious problems at such wind speeds and will probably be tipped over.


at 130 motorway is closed for all traffic.

for trucks and deckers this limit is lover... but I'm not sure is it 100 or more :dunno:


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## x-type

Verso is right. Portorož airport is completely in Slovenia and doesn't have anything with controversial area.


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## Halitophobe

*The Slovenians claim that the border is the edge of the floodplain and the Croatians claim that the border is the natural flow of the river. The airport is SOUTH of the NATURAL flow but north of the canal! Slovenia claim that the canal is the main part of the river and that the disputed zone is south of that, Croatian claim is that the old, natural course of the river is the edge of the disputed zone. So...The extent of the disputed zone is disputed (oh the irony!).*


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## Halitophobe

ANYWAY, let's get back to something more productive! For example, what's the staus on the new Zagreb Outer Bypass/Ring Road, has anything definate come out yet?


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## x-type

Halitophobe said:


> *The Slovenians claim that the border is the edge of the floodplain and the Croatians claim that the border is the natural flow of the river. The airport is SOUTH of the NATURAL flow but north of the canal! Slovenia claim that the canal is the main part of the river and that the disputed zone is south of that, Croatian claim is that the old, natural course of the river is the edge of the disputed zone. So...The extent of the disputed zone is disputed (oh the irony!).*


wrong. this is old Dragonja's stream. new Dragonja's stream, or popular channel of St. Odorik is the border which Croatian side accepts. that was the border in 1991. the border on old Dragonja's stream was till 1940es, or till the famous flood, when channel of St. Odorik was built, and new border was established. only the hardest nationalists claim that the border is real Dragonja. 
the problem has appeared when Slovenian side started to claim its juristiction even over St. Odorik channel, those 4 villages (Mlini, Škudelini and i don't know the names of other 2). 

about ZG bypass - there is nothing visible of that project yet, thanks god. it is absolutely unneccessary.


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## kreden

I don't understand you. Croatia says that the canal of st Odoric was the border and Slovenia says the border was a few hundred metres to the south. So the disputed area is between them. The old flow of the river that goes by the airport (it's called Stara Dragonja) is not part of the dispute. What you're saying would be like Slovenia (officially, not some radical movements) saying that Savudrija and Kaštel are disputed too because they used to be part of Piran.


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## Halitophobe

No, the whole point is that Croatia is arguing that the old flow of the Dragonja is the border, and not the canal. Croatia claims that canal does not affect the border but SLovenia claims that canal is the new border. The disputed zone is between the two. LOOK IT UP!



Try and argue with that! Let's see your essay!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ANYWAY (for the second time) let's move on!

Like I said:

What's the staus on the new Zagreb Outer Bypass/Ring Road, has anything definate come out yet?

(BTW : If anyone brings up the dispute again, I will kill them!)


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## x-type

Halitophobe said:


> No, the whole point is that Croatia is arguing that the old flow of the Dragonja is the border, and not the canal. Croatia claims that canal does not affect the border but SLovenia claims that canal is the new border. The disputed zone is between the two. LOOK IT UP!
> 
> 
> 
> Try and argue with that! Let's see your essay!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ANYWAY (for the second time) let's move on!
> 
> Like I said:
> 
> What's the staus on the new Zagreb Outer Bypass/Ring Road, has anything definate come out yet?
> 
> (BTW : If anyone brings up the dispute again, I will kill them!)




well on that .pdf is written what i have said: disputed area is south from St. Odorik channel. [URL="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_DyiG-0tB5ZQ/SXGW0kskNLI/AAAAAAAAABc/yZck_8xkzrM/s1600-h/secovlje.jpg"]here is the map. green area lasted up to 1940es when there was no that channel. Croatia accepts situation from 1991, which is drawn. i don't know what is unclear to you.

and i told you about ZG wide bypass - no any new things about it, only idea exists. and i repeat - i hope they will first rebuild existing bypass, add 3rd lane and see the situation with that. if Zagreb keeps growing as till now, new bypass will be neccessarry indeed. in some 10-15 years, not sooner.


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## Verso

Halitophobe said:


> ANYWAY, let's get back to something more productive!





Halitophobe said:


> ANYWAY (for the second time) let's move on!


Maybe you should finally move on yourself?



Halitophobe said:


> (BTW : If anyone brings up the dispute again, I will kill them!)


Maybe you should kill yourself next time you bring it up. :weird:


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## Halitophobe

Oh dear god! let's just agree to disagree!


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## P.C.Dolabella

Plan for the openings of new Motorways in Croatia in 2011. is

-jun -* 50 km* Kanfanar - Umag (close to SLO border)
-jun -* 10 km* Ravča - Vrgorac
-end of the year -* 18 km* Kanfanar - Pazin


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## Halitophobe

I'll Just be glad to see the A1 finished to the Ploce exit. This summer, it took us 45 minutes to drive 25 kilometers between Ravca and Ploce! My beachhouse is in the village under the peljesac bridge construction site and so it will be hugely convenient as there will be an exit 900 metres away...the construction is moving at a snails pace!


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## diegobonazzi

Halitophobe said:


> I'll Just be glad to see the A1 finished to the Ploce exit. This summer, it took us 45 minutes to drive 25 kilometers between Ravca and Ploce! My beachhouse is in the village under the peljesac bridge construction site and so it will be hugely convenient as there will be an exit 900 metres away...the construction is moving at a snails pace!


Problem is that they won't open the Ploce exit (near Mali Prolog) but the Vrgorac one so it'll remain 15 km of the worst part (expecially between Mali Prolog and Kobiljaca). It wont take 45 minuts but not less than 25...


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## treichard

I'm wondering what the paths of E65 and E71 are in Croatia. Different maps give different routings. Usually E routes follow motorways if they are available (e.g., A1), but the city-to-city definition of the routes suggests that national roads (D8, D1, D217, etc.) are used. 

So if you follow signs for E65 from Hungary to Montenegro and E71 from Hungary to Split, what is the series of Croatian roads you follow? 

Also, does E71 intersect E761 somewhere in Croatia, in Bosnia near Bihac, or not at all? 

And finally, will the completion of A1 in Croatia change the routing of either E65 or E71?

Thanks for any info on these routings.


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## x-type

when A1 was not built after Karlovac, the situation was like this: E65 and E71 went joined from b/c Goričan to Karlovac following D3 road (which went joined with D1 between Zagreb and Karlovac). 
E65 continued to follo D3 up to Rijeka, and there turned on D8 to the south, all way down to b/c Karasovići (with MNE). of course, with little deviation into BIH around Neum.
E71 continued to follow D1 in Karlovac up to Grabovac. there it continued on D217 to b/c Ličko Petrovo Selo (BIH), passed Bihać and entered HR again, but i'm not sure where. i think in Užljebić on D218. it follows D218 and i don't know where it reaches D1 again. first option is in Sučević. second option is that it turns on D506 and gets back to D1 in Bruvno. however, it follows D1 further up to Split, where it ends.

when A1 and A6 motorways appeared, total mess appeared with it. along A1 there are both signs for E65 and E71 (but not together, interesting). also, along A6 there are E65 signs. so nobody knows it anymore


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## treichard

Do you know of any photo galleries showing A1, A6, D1, D8, etc. that might show where which E road is signed on the motorways? Or might the Croatian road authorities publish a route log or official maps that might spell out the E routes? (Unfortunately, Google Street View doesn't cover Croatia yet.)


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## x-type

treichard said:


> Do you know of any photo galleries showing A1, A6, D1, D8, etc. that might show where which E road is signed on the motorways? Or might the Croatian road authorities publish a route log or official maps that might spell out the E routes? (Unfortunately, Google Street View doesn't cover Croatia yet.)


here are some of my photos from A1 with E numbers.

E71 at Perušić









this is confirmation sign after exit Perušić. here are both E65 and 71 dsigned.









Gospić: E71









and confirmation - both









Gornja Ploča: E71. it seems that all along the A1 from Bosiljevo to Maslenica is E71 signed.









Sveti Rok: nothing. this is the oldest part of A1 south of Bosiljevo.









but confirmation table says both after exit Sveti Rok









exit Maslenica says E65


















Posedarje also says E65









so does Zadar I









and Benkovac. this is newr part than previous one, but is still says E65.









Pirovac E65









Skradin E65









Šibenik E65










i will look through other phots if i find something interesting.


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## x-type

this one is interesting: intersection of A6 and A7 in Rijeka. it says E65 for both A6 direction Zagreb and A7 direction south (continuing on D8)


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## keber

Puležan;70961531 said:


> ^^I didn't see any document or plan. All I know is that Umag exit is on 4,6 km of A9. Probably there would be another curve just north of Kaštel, where the road will be brought down to a border crossing


Between valley and new roundabout (current beginning of A9) there is about 75 m of altitude difference. With 1,5 km long expressway, one short tunnel or big cutting there is no need to reach border control on Croatian side, connection could be done exactly on the bottom. It would be still steep (about 5%), but that is acceptable. If Slovenians would build some sort of approach viaduct on H5 just behind current border control, slope would be even more gentle. Of course existing border controls will have to be removed.


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## Halitophobe

The route of E65 follows the path of A1 until Bosiljevo, then it carrries onto A6 till Rijeka. It then goes south on A7, continues on the D8 (Adriatic Highway) until Senj, where it goes inland and rejoins the A1 at Zuta Lovka, thus following the future route of the A7. From there onwards it goes straight down the A1 and then goes on country roads for 20km or so until it rejoins D8.

Complicated route...most people will take the shortcut between Bosiljevo and Zuta Lovka, the only reason it goes via Rijeka is because...

a) It is the fastest route between Budapest and sea.
b) The E-Road Network funding applies to more motorway.
c) It serves a more usefull purpose as a coastal road.


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## x-type

Halitophobe said:


> The route of E65 follows the path of A1 until Bosiljevo, then it carrries onto A6 till Rijeka. It then goes south on A7, continues on the D8 (Adriatic Highway) until Senj, where it goes inland and rejoins the A1 at Zuta Lovka, thus following the future route of the A7. From there onwards it goes straight down the A1 and then goes on country roads for 20km or so until it rejoins D8.


do you have any relevant sources of that? why isn't E65 signed between Žuta Lokva and Maslenica (and E71 is)?


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## Verso

Puležan;72469065 said:


> That's all true
> But as soon as you build your H5, A9 will connect to it and that 2+1 part will be upgraded into 2+2 or even 3+2 (because of the slope). So in present condition there will be jams in Croatian and Slovenian side. I'm not trying to discredit you, I'm just saying why the first part of A9 has been built in 2+1 profile:cheers:


@darko06 is a Croat. (a Slovene would never post 3 different smilies in a row )


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## Puležan

Verso said:


> ... The biggest problem is Rijeka-Ljubljana/Trieste. Not short, tough terrain and *low traffic*. You had it easy on your side, A7 is short and close to Rijeka.


The bolded text is maybe the biggest problem. You don't have such big interes in building a motorway/expressway on that route, but to Croatia it is important. The other problem is tough terrain, which makes the construction expensive 

Maybe the solution could be to build half-motorway, which would be cheaper to build, and better for transit traffic in relation Rijeka-Trieste :dunno:


----------



## Puležan

Verso said:


> @darko06 is a Croat. (a Slovene would never post 3 different smilies in a row )


:lol: How could I know, he didn't wrote his location. Maybe he's ashamed of being a Croat or Slovenian (no hard feelings:cheers1


----------



## Verso

Yes, I think a half-motorway is the solution for starters (but without emergency lanes, which only make it more expensive) and twinning later.


----------



## hofburg

darko06 quite often writes on this forum. 

jelsane + starod is around 8000 AADT, so at least 2x2 expressway would be appropriate.


----------



## JackFrost

Puležan said:


> That's excellent!
> 
> But the problem is that there won't be such roads on Slovenian side (few kms around border crossings) in next few years (until cca 2013-2014), so there will be traffic jams during summer  Only their A2 and our A3 are connected and fully built between Ljubljana and Zagreb. Slovenian A4 isn't connected to our A2 yet (cca 15 km missing), and H5 won't be finished and connected to A9 in next 2-3 years...
> The last one is our A7 which ends at Rupa/Jelšane border crossing, and Slovenian government haven't decided yet whether to build a motorway/expressway to Divača or Postojna :dunno:


Why H5? Why they dont build a few kms of their A1 towards your A9?

Anyway, its good that you put such emphases on motorways, a few years and your network will be ready. By the way, what about A5 (on hungarian side M6 misses only a few kms to the border), and your connections to Bosnia, are there any plans? A11?


----------



## darko06

Verso said:


> Yes, I think a half-motorway is the solution for starters (but without emergency lanes, which only make it more expensive) and twinning later.


Isn't it legally forbidden to build half-motorways in Slovenia?


----------



## darko06

Puležan said:


> :lol: How could I know, he didn't wrote his location. Maybe he's ashamed of being a Croat or Slovenian (no hard feelings:cheers1


I was born in Croatia, but my parents were born in Slovenia.


----------



## keber

darko06 said:


> Isn't it legally forbidden to build half-motorways in Slovenia?


True.



> Why H5? Why they dont build a few kms of their A1 towards your A9?


It involves some demanding construction around Koper, hence it will be expensive. Also in Slovenia it is very difficult to put some important state objects into place (I know that because I do that at my work). Economy crisis doesn't help here too and Dars motorway company has big debts to pay. H5 will come but it'll take time. Maybe entrance of Croatia into EU will help to speed up this because of rising traffic (as it happened with A5 in direction of Hungary)


----------



## rimorski

If half-motorways are forbidden, than Slovenia could perhaps build fast roads instead and replace them with motorways once traffic volume increases?


----------



## P.C.Dolabella

darko06 said:


> Isn't it legally forbidden to build half-motorways in Slovenia?


Will be changed when Verso (soon) become new Minister of transport :|


----------



## msz2

Please, paste more photos of this viaduct under construction within Rijeka bypass.


----------



## Verso

keber said:


> darko06 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't it legally forbidden to build half-motorways in Slovenia?
> 
> 
> 
> True.
Click to expand...

I meant a road like it will be between Ptuj and Ormož, whatever you call it. I just used Puležan's expression.


----------



## keber

rimorski said:


> If half-motorways are forbidden, than Slovenia could perhaps build fast roads instead and replace them with motorways once traffic volume increases?


It's harder to put road into place than actually construct it. Nimbys are very strong in Slovenia.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The strength of NIMBY's depends on the weakness of politicians.


----------



## keber

Actually it is much more complicated.


----------



## diegobonazzi

*LPG staions on A1*

Hi guys!
Please tell me in which of these rest area I can fill in with LPG:
1) DOBRA
2) JANJCE
3) ZIR
4) JASENICE
5) VRPOLJE
6) MOSOR
I filled in last year in KOZJAK so I suppose there's still LPG there.


----------



## x-type

diegobonazzi said:


> Hi guys!
> Please tell me in which of these rest area I can fill in with LPG:
> 1) DOBRA
> 2) JANJCE
> 3) ZIR
> 4) JASENICE
> 5) VRPOLJE
> 6) MOSOR
> I filled in last year in KOZJAK so I suppose there's still LPG there.


all of them in both directions 

these which you've mentioned (+ Kozjak) are also all the stations which offer LPG along A1 south from Bosiljevo (between Zagreb and Bosiljevo you can get it on all stations: Stupnik, Desinec, Draganić, Vukova Gorica). or if you're coming from Rijeka, you have it on A7 Rupa, A7 Vrata Jadrana, A6 Ravna Gora.


----------



## mmmartin

darko06 said:


> Isn't it legally forbidden to build half-motorways in Slovenia?


I've never heard of that. Since when, keber? And why? Because of the accidents on slovenika in the 90's? Which law says that?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I was looking at the Neum corridor on Google Earth, and it seems that there is only one border crossing west of Neum, but not to the east, is this correct? This means that passing through Bosnia requires only one border crossing?


----------



## x-type

Because it is under jurisdiction of HC (Croatian Roads) and they never named their roads as A and B. Stupid. So stupid that now we have two D28s running parallel for few km's (old and new). According to me theY should have named it B12. 
And it is not A12 because it is not tolled, and A roads are tolled.


----------



## Puležan

treichard said:


> Why is D28 not already called A12?





x-type said:


> Because it is under jurisdiction of HC (Croatian Roads) and they never named their roads as A and B. Stupid. So stupid that now we have two D28s running parallel for few km's (old and new). According to me theY should have named it B12.
> And it is not A12 because it is not tolled, and A roads are tolled.


Also, D28 doesn't have hard shoulders, which is one of conditions for A-roads.

As x-type said, Croatia has really stupid model for numbering of expressways, which are state roads. When they build a new expressway which is supposed to be an substitute to "old" state road, they just "move" designation from old state road to a new expressway, and the old road is degraded to county road:bash: So all of our expressways are D-roads (Rijeka bypass-A7-is also D8, Osijek bypass is D2, Zadar connection to A1 is D424...)

Today, only the eastern part of Istrian Y has a B-designation - B8, but all of our half-motorways are designated with B during the construction of the second carriageway (Rijeka-Zagreb was also B6; today is A6)


----------



## x-type

as far as i remember, there should have been B6, but they've named it A6 since the beginning because it was in the phase of upgrading when A and B names were introduced.

the largest mess was with state road D3. it goes from Hungarian broder Goričan - Čakovec - Varaždin - Zagreb - Karlovac - Rijeka - Pazin - Pula. as they have been opening new motorways' sections, D3 was moved to motorway, and old road was signed as lower rang roaad (ŽC). so D3 became horribly interrupted because suddanly they stopped doing it :lol:
but i drove old part of D3 few weeks ago and it seems that they have returned it.


----------



## hofburg

thanks for explaining Pulezan.  and what is Udbina? it's marked 522 on google...


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> And it is not A12 because it is not tolled, and A roads are tolled.


A3 around Zagreb isn't tolled.


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> A3 around Zagreb isn't tolled.


i am talking about whole motorways. this is just a small part, just as A7 around Rijeka or expressways in Istria signed as B roads. however - very stupid thing how 2 companies couldn't agree about names. very stupid.



hofburg said:


> thanks for explaining Pulezan.  and what is Udbina? it's marked 522 on google...


 also D522. jurisdiction of HC, not HAC. but it is not expressway in whole lenght.


----------



## hofburg

A6 when it was still a half motorway (2004)

direction Zagreb













































near Vrbovsko it was already 2x2


----------



## hofburg

direction Rijeka


----------



## x-type

wow what a fantastic historic photos!

btw it reminded me the year 1995, the first newer section oh half motorway between Delnice and Oštrovica was opened, we felt as driving in heaven when we reached it after 100 km's of curvy and dangerous D3 (not to mention when next section from Kupjak was opened :lol. but frankly, sometimes i am very nostalgic of those drivings on overcrowded curvy road


----------



## hofburg

are there any pics of D3?


----------



## x-type

hofburg said:


> are there any pics of D3?


you must be kidding :lol: i drove 1 km from exit Delnice to D32 3 years ago, then i drove some 12 km from Delnice to Ravna Gora 6 years ago, and before that was the age of analog cameras :lol:
it's nice road, lots of curves, most of the time in forrest, many scenic views as river cascades etc. but it's not easy to drive and thank heaven for motorway for transit traffic there


----------



## hofburg

here are some photos of D3 near Vrbovsko, actually the route is Novo mesto (Slo) -> Ogulin (Hr) -> Senj -> Jablanac.

(start) http://www.panoramio.com/user/3646601?comment_page=1&photo_page=92
(finish) http://www.panoramio.com/user/3646601?comment_page=1&photo_page=73

too bad this guy posted only on panoramio.


----------



## hofburg

D3
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/47165601








by *alen_koprivnjak*

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/47167471








by *alen_koprivnjak*

D42
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/47167539








by *alen_koprivnjak*


----------



## Sponsor

I really like those horizontal traffic lights.


----------



## Verso

hofburg said:


> D3
> http://www.panoramio.com/photo/47165601
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by *alen_koprivnjak*


Ljubljana? Wouldn't it be better to sign Črnomelj (or at least Novo mesto like on the motorway)? This doesn't look like a "road to Ljubljana" to me.


----------



## hofburg

for tourists coming from A1 and taking a shortcut to LJ instead of making a detour via Zagreb?


----------



## Verso

Yeah right.  I know it's quite a detour over Zagreb, but that's a bad alternative (maybe in summer jams).


----------



## hofburg

hehe. I see no other explanation except of Croats wanting to point out how small is Slo, so LJ is the next village by the border.


----------



## Verso

Croats should land on earth and realize you're never far away from the border or sea in Croatia.


----------



## veteran

Three years ago I drove from Adriatic coast to Munich and I used a shortcut Karlovac-Neretić-Žakanje-Metlika-Novo Mesto via Croatian D6 and Slovenian G105. I wanted to avoid jams on Lučko Toll station. Both roads (D6/G105) wasn't bad but quite curvy.


----------



## Bad_Hafen

PhirgataZFs1694 said:


> I think Grdelica-MK border is not even a half-profile motorway...


well that's true. Only first i think 10-20km from MKD border direction north is motorway.


----------



## KHS

*Istrian Y upgrade*



nyl said:


> bio u prolazu kod čvora Višnjan: po starom kolniku promet u dvije trake


:cheers:


----------



## Satan Of Panonia

Little off topic.
Next to A2 in the village of Bistra the works on the new F1 circuit will start.The designer of the Croatian circuit said that it's going to be even more beautiful then the Yas Island in Abu Dhabi which he designed too.

http://sportski.net.hr/automoto/page/2011/05/12/0249006.html


----------



## KHS

New 11 km of A1 will be opened by the end of next month. Section Ravča-Vrgorac.









(Foto: Dnevnik.hr)

Video...http://dnevnik.hr/bin/tv/?media_id=60457577

:cheers:


----------



## toonczyk

Great news! And will the section Vrgorac-Ploče (D425) be ready in 2013, or has it been postponed even further?


----------



## ivan_ri

*Rijeka bypass (east): Sv. Kuzam - Križišće*

situation on June 1st 2011.

not much of a progress since last report 



gorgoroth said:


> Pogled iznad tunela Burlica na viadukt Kuk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> portali tunela Burlica





gorgoroth said:


> pogled prema Kuku iz Burlice





gorgoroth said:


> Viadukt Kuk





gorgoroth said:


> Od Kuka prema Burlici





gorgoroth said:


> Kuk iz visine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> prema mostu
> 
> 
> pogled,prejeben :nuts::lol:





gorgoroth said:


> spojna cesta za Zagreb


----------



## ivan_ri

*above Bakar*

^^



gorgoroth said:


> zanimljiv pogled


:nuts:


----------



## KHS

*Rijeka - D404*

Recently opened D404







:cheers:


----------



## ivan_ri

^^great :banana::cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Any news on A11 Zagreb - Sisak?


----------



## hofburg

nice road D404. whats the function of the old _jandranska magistrala _now, on google maps it is no longer marked even with a number (8).


----------



## x-type

hofburg said:


> nice road D404. whats the function of the old jandranska magistrala now, on google maps it is no longer marked even with a number (8).


It is city road for entering Rijeka from the south. D404 is not its substitute.


----------



## g.spinoza

My congratulations to Croatia and Croatians! You have been admitted to UE (although I'm not exactly sure if Croatian should be happy about this), and on July 1st 2013 you will officially be one of us ("one-of-us, one-of-us")


----------



## jeremiash

^^ while i'm happy that Croatia is soon going to be a member of the EU, you're underestimating our bureaucracy  They have not yet been admitted to the EU.
http://www.di-ve.com/Default.aspx?ID=43&Action=1&NewsId=83926
The EU Commission has made a proposal to finish negotiations, now EU Council(so all member states) needs to agree, then there has to be a referendum within Croatia, then all member states parliaments need to ratify the treaty of accession, and then Croatia will be a member of the EU. 
i'm keeping my fingers crossed for no problems on this road


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ It was my understanding that this should present no obstacles, they should just be "pro forma"...


----------



## x-type

well, if nothing else, we will contribute to km per capita of motorways in the EU  if referendum passes


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yep, Croatia will have the best road network among the new EU countries since 2004. 

I'm heavily in favor of Croatia joining EU, and at some point the remaining Balkan countries as well. European integration is the best thing that happened since World War II.


----------



## phiberoptik

^^ +1


----------



## Fuzzy Llama

x-type said:


> if referendum passes


And what does the early polls say? 

Every Pole welcome Hrvatska in EU and (especially) in Schengen, for it will make our favourite holiday destination a little bit closer to home


----------



## toonczyk

Yeah, hope you'll get those magical structural funds from EU soon 
But speaking of holiday destinations: what is the latest news about Pelješki most? Opening still planned for 2015?


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> According to Google Earth, D62 road runs through the territory of Bosnia-Herzegovina for a brief distance east of Vrgorac. Is this correct, and are there border checks?


it is wrong. it runs just parallely with the border. i have some photos of it somewhere.


----------



## darko06

That supposed route of A1 between Vrgorac and Kobiljača (dotted line) is correct by my opinion, because it passes on southern slopes of the hill, leaving the valley southbound (presumably Otrić-polje/Otrić-field) intact.


----------



## Puležan

toonczyk said:


> Thanks. As for renaming D425 to A1, that would require building second carriageway, right? Because as far as I remember there are two tunnels and a few bridges that are only half profile. Or does your law permit half-profile motorways? Well, now that I think of it, it probably does, for example tunnel Mala Kapela before 2009 comes to mind


A1 will not follow the route of D425, so D425 won't be renamed. There will be an interchange on A1 called "Ploče", from which the D425 (which is an expressway) is going towards town and harbor Ploče (blue line on the left side of the picture). Few kilometres to the south-east, another interchange will be built: A1/A10, from which A10 will go towards BIH and Mostar, Sarajevo...



















D425 is an expressway, which is in 2x2 profile on the first section till the rest area Ploče (_odmorište_), and 1x1 on the last one, until the town of Ploče. You can see the 2x2 and 1x1 sections on this diagram:


----------



## toonczyk

^^ Great, thanks!


----------



## darko06

So I saw the works on tunnel Mali Prolog, which is in fact part of the D425 expw.
I have rightfully assumed that A1, after Vrgorac intersection, will pass on the northern slopes of the hill, near the border, parallel to D62.


----------



## KHS

*A1 Ravča-Vrgorac*


----------



## vectom

congratulations! I passed there on my bike exactly one month ago, and was impressed by the tempo of the workers finishing up this newest section. Absolutely lovely news for today.


----------



## x-type

last sentence translated: "we should be able to travel from Zagreb to Ploče using the motorway by the end of 2012"


----------



## diegobonazzi

zezi said:


> It is village road, very narrow, slow, lots of car parked around.
> Not a good choice
> 
> 
> From Vrgorac to Ploče you have two roads
> 1. M.Prolog ( D 62 )
> 2. Staševica (Z 6208 )
> IMO second one is better choice


Are we sure that now this shortcut isn't the best way to get to the expressway to Ploce? Passing throgh Vrgorac it take 5 km more, ins't it?


----------



## Verso

Congratulations on the new motorway section and the 4th motorway to Slovenia. We're far behind, as always.


----------



## hofburg

they're pushing us too much  4 motorways to one small country? who does that.


----------



## Verso

^ Italians (if we count A23 ).


----------



## veteran

KHS said:


>


Why does exit Vrgorac have number 30a? Why not 31? 

Sequentional nubering of exits is IMHO really confusing. E. g.: You are driving from ST to ZG near Bosiljevo (exit 5), and you are expecting next exit no. 4, but it does not exist, and the next existing one has no. 3. Similar case is around exit Vučevica. Exit Progomet has no. 24, you are expecting the next number 25, but the next exit Vučevica is 24a. 25 is Dugopolje. Same with Donja Zdenčina and Jakuševac-Kosnica exits on A3.

I understand adding *-a, -b, -c,...* to number if it is a new exit which wasn't planned originally (Lučko 1-Donja Zdenčina 1a-Jastrebarsko 2), but I really don't understand it in cases like Prgomet-Vučevica (24-24a) and Vrgorac (30a).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Could Vrgorac be a temporary exit until A1 is extended further? Vrgorac can also easily be accessed via the Ravča exit.


----------



## x-type

veteran said:


> Why does exit Vrgorac have number 30a? Why not 31?
> 
> Sequentional nubering of exits is IMHO really confusing. E. g.: You are driving from ST to ZG near Bosiljevo (exit 5), and you are expecting next exit no. 4, but it does not exist, and the next existing one has no. 3. Similar case is around exit Vučevica. Exit Progomet has no. 24, you are expecting the next number 25, but the next exit Vučevica is 24a. 25 is Dugopolje. Same with Donja Zdenčina and Jakuševac-Kosnica exits on A3.
> 
> I understand adding *-a, -b, -c,...* to number if it is a new exit which wasn't planned originally (Lučko 1-Donja Zdenčina 1a-Jastrebarsko 2), but I really don't understand it in cases like Prgomet-Vučevica (24-24a) and Vrgorac (30a).



exit #4 is u/c. it was planned when the whole motorway was planned, it was built, but wasn't finnished. that's the only place at HR motorways where one exit is missing in a row.
exits with additional letters were not yet planned when the project of motorway was made (1a, 24a). about Vrgorac - that is probably because they have been changing plans and it was not planned to be made at first. it is not temporary exit. that number has surprised me either.


----------



## veteran

x-type said:


> exit #4 is u/c. it was planned when the whole motorway was planned, it was built, but wasn't finnished. that's the only place at HR motorways where one exit is missing in a row.


I know that it is U/C. I saw it yesterday  I've just mentioned it because of my argumentation that sequentional numbering is not exactly the best way of exit-numbering.



x-type said:


> exits with additional letters were not yet planned when the project of motorway was made (1a, 24a).


Yes, 1a I understand. Lučko and Jastrebarsko existed when D. Zdenčina was built. There were not many options :lol: But 24a Vučevica was built together with section Vrpolje-Dugopolje, wasn't it? Was there any problem to get Vučevica number 25 and Dugopolje 26?


----------



## x-type

veteran said:


> Yes, 1a I understand. Lučko and Jastrebarsko existed when D. Zdenčina was built. There were not many options :lol: But 24a Vučevica was built together with section Vrpolje-Dugopolje, wasn't it? Was there any problem to get Vučevica number 25 and Dugopolje 26?


nope. it was built later. our ex prime minister (who is now in jail :lol: ) came out with idea that he could make a motorway exit to the village where he was born. and, of course, take few hundreds of thousands euros to his pocket on that project. that exit have average amount of traffic cca 150 vehicles daily :lol:


----------



## veteran

^^wow :lol: What a 'criminal' story. I drove there in 2004 and it seems to me that it was built - or maybe I have an eclipse of my mind :lol:


----------



## x-type

veteran said:


> ^^wow :lol: What a 'criminal' story. I drove there in 2004 and it seems to me that it was built - or maybe I have an eclipse of my mind :lol:


i think it was finnished in 2005. the project worthed cca 8 mil. €, and the works were made by company from brothers Žužul, whose picture you can find in encyclopedia under letter "E": economical criminal. 
an excuse for that exit wsas actually nice idea of building tunnel under Kozjak mountain, so on that exit you could easily reach Trogir and eastern suburbia od Split. imo that's very good idea, but unfortunately, that was just an excuse to build that exit and take the money. tunnel maybe will be built in next 20 years hno:


----------



## veteran

1 km before Tunel Konjsko. Look dir. ZG. Up on hill is wind turbine - transmission of this turbine was made in Košice, Slovakia. My father done the defectoscopy testing of it


----------



## veteran

Between exits Zadar 1 and Posedarje. Velebit mountains on the background.


----------



## x-type

excellent photos, do you have more of them?


----------



## veteran

x-type said:


> excellent photos, do you have more of them?


Unfortunately not. I've made some photos only around Posedarje and Konjsko. But all of them was taken by few meters so are almost same. I've taken some pictures on D8 in Omiš, I'll post them to [Croatia] - Državne ceste | State roads


----------



## KaaRoy

Help request:

A friend of mine bought me an ENC device to be used at Croatian morotway toll stations. I am trying to use the website to check balance and see how I can deposit funds. 

https://prodaja.hac.hr/auth_lang.action?request_locale=en

The help page says I need to use some "initial password" to login - but I am unable to find one in the package. Can someone help, please?


----------



## x-type

KaaRoy said:


> Help request:
> 
> A friend of mine bought me an ENC device to be used at Croatian morotway toll stations. I am trying to use the website to check balance and see how I can deposit funds.
> 
> https://prodaja.hac.hr/auth_lang.action?request_locale=en
> 
> The help page says I need to use some "initial password" to login - but I am unable to find one in the package. Can someone help, please?


there is password recovery thing (did you forget your password). write your/his mail there and you/he will recieve new password.

if it doesn't work, pm me, i will help you


----------



## diegobonazzi

>


Probabily nobody understood what I meant yesterday... My idea is that it is shorter after Vrgorac exit to take the local road 6211 Dusina-Otric/Seoci to reach Kobilijaca and then take D425 expressway Karamantici-Ploce. It shold be around 5 km less then going up to Vrgorac town and then Veliki Prolog... Is it right?


----------



## veteran

I've noticed yesterday on Lika-section of A1 between Perušić and Sveti Rok some tables behind the fence with text: _NE PRILAZITE. Na ovom području je velika opasnost do mina._ (In English: DO NOT ENTER. In this area is a great danger to the mine.). Are there really mine fields or these tables are just forgotten there?


----------



## x-type

veteran said:


> I've noticed yesterday on Lika-section of A1 between Perušić and Sveti Rok some tables behind the fence with text: _NE PRILAZITE. Na ovom području je velika opasnost do mina._ (In English: DO NOT ENTER. In this area is a great danger to the mine.). Are there really mine fields or these tables are just forgotten there?


no tables forgotten! when you see that sign, yuo better don't go there. they sign suspicious area which is probably a mine field. cleaning the mine fields is really slow thing to do.


----------



## toonczyk

I've been to Papuk Geopark last year and mine warning signs were all around the mountains. Unfortunately it's still a pretty common sign in Croatia


----------



## YiannisPap

Hello!
Could you please inform me the rest areas when entering from Serbia untill Zagreb?
Thank you very much in advance!


----------



## x-type

YiannisPap said:


> Hello!
> Could you please inform me the rest areas when entering from Serbia untill Zagreb?
> Thank you very much in advance!


you have rest area after each exit, sometimes 2 rest areas between 2 exits. but some of them are oldfashioned and crappy. let me suggest you ok rest areas: 
Rastovica between exits Županja and Babina Greda 
Marsonia between exits Slavonski Brod istok and Slavonski Brod zapad
Staro Petrovo Selo between exits Lužani and Nova Gradiška
Novska between exits Okučani and Novska
Lipovljani between Novska and Kutina
Ježevo between Ivanić Grad and Zagreb

on the other motorways in HR there aer no problems with crappy rest areas.


----------



## diegobonazzi

Hi all!
I found out that on http://www.openstreetmap.org/ there is still a detailed map of the new section Ravca-Vrgorac and the access road to the Vrgorac exit.
Maybe some of you could make a print-sreen and post it here (I'm not able to use Imageshack). I think it can help a lot.


----------



## danielstan

*Ravca - Vrgorac section on map*

Here it is:









See the dotted line for the future highway.


----------



## hofburg

additional bridge over Neretva west of Metkovic would be nice.


----------



## Zanovijetalo

Stupica tunnel (230m) detouring a rock slide from last year has been opened for traffic on a mountain road above Makarska towards Vrgorac (D512 across Biokovo mountain in Dalmatia). 




























Source


----------



## x-type

however, it is only temporary opened. after tourist season it will be closed due to completing the infrastructure.


----------



## tom666

I wonder what's the destiny of the cyclist above.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

He has a mountain bike. Guess what he's going to do near that mountain


----------



## tom666

According to the t-shirt, he comes from Slovenia, I'm sure, he's got what it takes.


----------



## x-type

that road is often a challenge for a cyclists. an avarega one probably couldn't reach more than 1 km :lol:


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> I think the toll stations are the major bottlenecks. It looks like this one has only some 6 toll gates westbound, in France toll stations on major holiday routes often have 12 or even 20 toll gates in the peak direction.


Lučko can have max 12 entries. 7 are default regarding the solid line, but it doesn't mean anything because all booths are changable. i have noticed in Italy many unchangable toll booths. so where is solid line, there is always border between directions.

btw i have bought electronic tolling device today


----------



## hofburg

migration of nations  I don't get it why everybody wants to travel on saturday.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

hofburg said:


> migration of nations  I don't get it why everybody wants to travel on saturday.


There is no way you can book accommodations other than Saturday - Saturday during the peak summer season...


----------



## darko06

The newspapers stated that yesterday even the Vrgorac toll station was jammed at the exit. The queue was 2-3 kms long. I hope that A1 will be connected with Ploče expw before the next summer season.


----------



## darko06

About the electronic tolling device, I bougt one three months ago. The vendor was ARZ. With their one, you may pass electronically the ARZ network (Zagreb-Rijeka, Rijeka-Rupa and the Krk bridge: A1, A6, A7) and the HAC network (rest of A1, A3, A4, A5, A11), but you may pass neither the Strabag route (AZM, A2) nor the IY (A9), inspite of fact that ARZ salesperson had convinced me that ARZ ETD is usable at the IY.

I think that the existence of four diverse companies at the Croatian motorway network is the main obstacle of implementing the vignette system there.


----------



## x-type

darko06 said:


> About the electronic tolling device, I bougt one three months ago. The vendor was ARZ. With their one, you may pass electronically the ARZ network (Zagreb-Rijeka, Rijeka-Rupa and the Krk bridge: A1, A6, A7) and the HAC network (rest of A1, A3, A4, A5, A11), but you may pass neither the Strabag route (AZM, A2) nor the IY (A9), inspite of fact that ARZ salesperson had convinced me that ARZ ETD is usable at the IY.
> 
> I think that the existence of four diverse companies at the Croatian motorway network is the main obstacle of implementing the vignette system there.


i think you can use it in the same way as ENC device from HAC. you must own a credit card and come to selling point of Bina Istra (for instance at tunnel Učka) and then they decode your device. however, they probably charge directly your credit card, and they don't take down your credits prepayed on ENC.


----------



## mmmartin

darko06 said:


> I think that the existence of four diverse companies at the Croatian motorway network is the main obstacle of implementing the vignette system there.


Considering the reactions on implementation of Slovenian vignettes few years back, I thought you hated vignettes. :runaway: Just kidding, I know ... 15 € for 7 days. But implementation of vignettes caused a zero-waiting-line-on-toll-booths in Slovenia.

But is it possible with all the concessions to implement them in Croatia?


----------



## Zanovijetalo

toonczyk said:


> Speaking of bridges - what's happening with Pelješac Bridge? Is the construction still on hold?


A few days ago a Dubrovnik local newspapers published that construction will soon continue as it appears the government has obtained the money. However, we have general elections soon so I’d take this with a grain of salt.

Source in Croatian


----------



## Puležan

darko06 said:


> About the electronic tolling device, I bougt one three months ago. The vendor was ARZ. With their one, you may pass electronically the ARZ network (Zagreb-Rijeka, Rijeka-Rupa and the Krk bridge: A1, A6, A7) and the HAC network (rest of A1, A3, A4, A5, A11), but you may pass neither the Strabag route (AZM, A2) nor the IY (A9), inspite of fact that ARZ salesperson had convinced me that ARZ ETD is usable at the IY.
> 
> I think that the existence of four diverse companies at the Croatian motorway network is the main obstacle of implementing the vignette system there.


Like x-type said, you can use ENC on Istrian Y (A8, A9) but you need to code your device at Bina-Istra selling station (at Učka or Pula toll station), because there's a special account for their system, so you have to put money on both accounts, HAC/ARZ and BINA-ISTRA. It's a little bit impractical, but it is functional So, ENC could be used at all croatian motorways, except A2.

The implementation of the vignette system wouldn't be so difficult, because every of the concessionaires know exactly the traffic on their motorway sections, and there is an association for concessionaires called HUKA which is some kind of controlling mechanism. You can see that ARZ and HAC don't have problems in their network (ARZ operates first part of A1+A6+A7, while HAC operates part of A1 and the rest of cro motorways) and that they know how to distribute the incomes.

But I think vignette system is better for bigger countries with many motorway sections/branches, where there is more than one way to come from point A to point B using motorways, so you buy a vignette and drive wherever you need to, not calculating the cheapest route (often the shortest one). Croatia should wait for another 10 years to complete its network (A11, A12, A13, some expressways in Podravina and Moslavina) which will be a decent motorway network with many alternatives and the vignette would be a nice solution:cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The best option are fuel / car tax-funded motorways like in Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, etc.


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> The best option are fuel / car tax-funded motorways like in Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, etc.


we already pay the tax for building the motorways in price of the fuel


----------



## kubam4a1

Serious jams at the toll stations at 2x2 motorways with daily flow of approx. 40 000 veh/day are by no means only Croatian origin - it also happens in Poland at A4, A1, A2....


----------



## Puležan

kubam4a1 said:


> Serious jams at the toll stations at 2x2 motorways with daily flow of approx. 40 000 veh/day are by no means only Croatian origin - it also happens in Poland at A4, A1, A2....


Jams occur mostly at Lučko (Zagreb) toll station (few pages before we explained why), and at some exits on A1 in Dalmatia, especially on its southernmost end, because of huge number of tourists going to vacation. It can be busy on some motorways (A1, A2, A6, A9 - these are touristic transit routes) but you can still drive at normal speed and there are no jams


----------



## KaaRoy

Peljesac Bridge - Can someone tell me the status?


----------



## x-type

KaaRoy said:


> Peljesac Bridge - Can someone tell me the status?


----------



## Moravian

Puležan said:


> There are national roads D1 (Zagreb-Karlovac-Knin-Split) which is an alternative for A1 towards Dalmatia, and D3 (Zagreb-Karlovac-Delnice-Rijeka) as an alternative for A1+A6 towards Rijeka and Istria.
> http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=45.6716439&lon=15.7138824&z=11&l=0&m=o
> 
> To get to these roads in Zagreb, you have to take the first right exit at Lučko intersection and follow the yellow signs for Karlovac or Rijeka:
> http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=45.7602779&lon=15.9020662&z=15&l=0&m=o
> :cheers:


Well if I remember well, it was really trickly (or even impossible) to find out the right way at Lucko intersection to the (old) national road to Karlovac. Maybe nowadays, it is signed better or. You cannot pass that way via A3. I tried it one time (10 years ago, in Karlovac it was a bit easier, for direction Jastrebarsko-Zagreb as well...)
Anyway, I suppose that the beginning of the national road D1 to Split is just the border crossing Macelj. The motorway Zagreb-Macelj has been completed so that the old national road might be "overlayed" by the motorway in any section(Oroslavlje-Krapina bypass)?..


----------



## Moravian

mapman:cz said:


> Yeah, I can second that... Last year on my way to HR, we had a huge delay at Zagreb, but I noticed that "card booths" at Lučko were opened, so on our way back I just took the card booth lanes and it took me approx. 5 minutes to pass Lučko toll booth. The non-card lanes were really full that day, causing significant delay...


That is definitely right. It issue is also about the long-term habits of the tourists. That it is not necessary to pay only in cash. That there is the opportunity to pay by credit card or even via ENC. IMO, it could be sometimes about the fear to pay be credit cards abroad or if the right catagory of the car will be finally charged there....


----------



## x-type

Moravian said:


> Well if I remember well, it was really trickly (or even impossible) to find out the right way at Lucko intersection to the (old) national road to Karlovac. Maybe nowadays, it is signed better or. You cannot pass that way via A3. I tried it one time (10 years ago, in Karlovac it was a bit easier, for direction Jastrebarsko-Zagreb as well...)


Ot is signed in the same was already for cca 10 years. You must take exit to "Zagreb jug (south)" and then to Lucko".


----------



## Moravian

Puležan said:


> The sole size of the toll station is not a problem. The problem is the fact that this is the point where all directions from north and east (A2, A3 from SLO, A3 from Slavonia and A4) come to one point where the toll system begins (where you get the toll card, which is not a long procedure). But A1 is so highly congested that there's no enough space to drive on. The traffic often reduces at Karlovac exit (because of the daily commuters and local people going on the "old" road), and at the Bosiljevo-II junction it's ok, because that's the spot where 2 motorways split (A1 and A6).
> 
> Regarding Lučko toll station (direction north, to Zagreb) - that's the problem, because everyone has to pay the toll, which takes a while. But the jam would be reduced if they use automatic/electronic paying system at the Demerje station (3 km from Lučko/Zg), from which those 2 lanes are separated until Zagreb:
> http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=45.7244277&lon=15.8703518&z=17&l=0&m=s


Concerning the traffic jams, it should be highlighted that the clear progress has been achieved in Croatia in past years..... If there are not maintainance works at tunnels Mala Kapela or Sveti Rok there are no delays at A1 behind Karlovac. The bottleneck (we are talking about tourists "peak times") there might be the toll station Zagreb-Lucko and the tolls stations at the current end of the motorway. I would expect not so long traffic jams at the tolling stations Sv.Helena and Gorican at the A4 (another issue is that this route is partially used by tourist trying to "bypass Slovenia"). Another bottleneck is the border crossing Macelj (plus one tunnel there still with only single tube).
The "old" national road D1 from Karlovac is certainly the good option for local as well as for tourists traffic. It is free of charge and the traffic jams are over after the opening of the A1 (the traffic is splitted). And the road is not in bad condition. Many people would like to visit the national park "Plitvicka jezera" on the way to Adriatic Sea. On the other hand there are disadvantages of this route. Even if the countryside is not so populated there are many speed limits (controlled by police) due to "neverending" villages and due to many corners sometimes it is not so easy to overtake slow cars....The detours (as before 15/07 this year near Knin) could be another trouble...
Another improvement (not last) is the bypass-motorway A7 in Rijeka/Bakar. For example the former road connection between that motorway and the Jadranska magistrala (Bakar-Kostrena-eastern part of the city Rijeka) was a real nightmare.


----------



## pijanec

Verso said:


> And 35 km between Croatia and Maribor.


I don't really understand why they don't use parallel border crossings as they are completely deserted. :nuts: And even they all lead to the same motorway as Macelj crossing. Not to mention that almost every tourist has the GPS.


----------



## PhirgataZFs1694

x-type said:


> it has. also, today our prime minister saide that they had closed financial construction for its construction. ok, i don't trust her because she's a lying bitch who is buying her election votes with that (her predcessor, who is now in jail bought elections exactly with that bridge), but there is other side of medal: if oposition win elections in 4 months, they are even more pro-european orientated. and they are against bridge due to its costs, at least in this situation. so Neum area shouldn't be an obstacle for EU. finally, what about Büsingen (German exclave in Switzerland)? they have never had any problems with Schengen border.


How many and how wide will lanes be? Will there be any emergency lanes, pedestrian walks, bicycle lanes? What type will the bridge be? Any visualisations?


----------



## blagun

x-type said:


> what about Büsingen (German exclave in Switzerland)?


 Not the same. Switzerland is member of Schengen, it never had visa regime with its neighbours. BiH citizens enter with visa in EU countries.
Double external boundaries control in Neum corridor will be a terrible shock for the citizens and guests of Dubrovnik and Southern Dalmatia.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There is no visa requirement for Bosnian citizens in the European Union.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina_citizens


----------



## x-type

PhirgataZFs1694 said:


> How many and how wide will lanes be? Will there be any emergency lanes, pedestrian walks, bicycle lanes? What type will the bridge be? Any visualisations?













i think it should be 2+2 without central barrier (or with thin, for instance Jerseys). 
type: beam bridge with cable stayed part in the middle
main span: 568 metres, height 55 metres
pilons' height: 187 metres over sea level
width: 21 metres (road width: 17 metres, it's kinda unclear to me, but probably 4x3,50 or 4x3,75 without hard shoulders)

if you want details, i can translate official article from croatian into english.



blagun said:


> Not the same. Switzerland is member of Schengen, it never had visa regime with its neighbours. BiH citizens enter with visa in EU countries.


as Chris said - BIH doesn't have visa system for EU. and Switzerland is Schengen area member only since 2008. what was before?


----------



## PhirgataZFs1694

Thank you very much for the information.:cheers::cheers:


----------



## darko06

Frankly, it's not a problem with the border crossings on both sides of Neum (i.e. Klek and the other one, which is on the opposite side of village Hodilje on subpeninsula Pelješac), where for now one can relatively easy pass the border, let's say in Schengen proportion.

The problem is very poor quality of the "Jadranska Magistrala" on the territory of Bosnia and Herzegovina (they call it M-2, where M is for Magistrala, the old Yugoslav term). On the whole M-2 there is speed limit of 60 km/h, even outside of urban area. And there are also radar ambushs. Every time I passed there I saw at least one, changing places and catching also the tourists who travel to Dubrovnik. So after this, I fully understood the tourists from Netherlands who on the Croatian D-8 after the border to Dubrovnik drove about 60 kmh, even there where the speed limit is 80 or 90 kmh.

Because, as a Croatian citizen, I cannot enforce my government to urge Bosnian government to improve Bosnian part of Adriatic Touristic Road, I have full right to demand from my government a bridge which will avoid such a terrific road conditions on foreign soil.


----------



## darko06

And Chris, you should know that when Croatia enters EU (probably on July 1st, 2013), the Neum border crossings will become the outer EU border (for a time not the Schengen borders), so the check times will be much longer, in order to prevent smuggling and counterfeit, because exactly this will be the demand from Bruxelles eurocrates to the Government of Croatia.


----------



## darko06

I think also that in the Croatian negotiations for entering EU there are some interesting clauses:
- The goods cannot be transported from Dubrovnik area to the rest of Croatian soil and vice versa through the Neum corridor (area out of the EU) by trucks which are heavier than 5 or 7,5 tonnes (I don't know precise numbers). So Croatia should transport such load either by air or sea or by trucks via the ferry from Ploče to the Pelješac peninsula. (And I fully agree with that condition which is intending to prevent smuggling.)
- The flocks of sheeps from Bosnia cannot enter Croatian territory (and the EU). Also, similar flocks from Croatia cannot leave Croatia (and the EU).


----------



## x-type

darko06 said:


> - The goods cannot be transported from Dubrovnik area to the rest of Croatian soil and vice versa through the Neum corridor (area out of the EU) by trucks which are heavier than 5 or 7,5 tonnes (I don't know precise numbers). So Croatia should transport such load either by air or sea or by trucks via the ferry from Ploče to the Pelješac peninsula. (And I fully agree with that condition which is intending to prevent smuggling.)


what are you talking here about? lorries are passing through Neum without any problems. i am not sure if they even have an obligation to declare goods for passing through BIH on that short part. i will ask drivers in my firm about that, they often travel to Dubrovnik with 40 t lorries. HR and BIH even have an agreement to have free lorry traffic without CEMT authorizations (the same is with Slovenia and Hungary). with EU or Schengen that will not change.


----------



## hammersklavier

darko06 said:


> - The flocks of sheeps from Bosnia cannot enter Croatian territory (and the EU). Also, similar flocks from Croatia cannot leave Croatia (and the EU).


How are the going to enforce this? Sheep know no boundaries. They just baa.


----------



## SokoX

hammersklavier said:


> How are the going to enforce this? Sheep know no boundaries. They just baa.


By deploying at least 1000 shepherds into a custom service to fiercely secure border from the sheep threats coming outside the EU zone. :lol:


----------



## darko06

You may laugh now, but we'll see who is gonna laugh at least.


----------



## Satan Of Panonia

The Eu doesn't want to give us the funds for the bridge because they think that in the long term the bridge won't be nessesery because they expect Bosnia and Herzegovina to become member of the EU.The political situation in B&H is far from stable and the country will probably desintegrate before it becomes a EU member.If Croatia decides not to build the bridge the Sarajevo(muslim) government can easily create road blocks or find a way to damage Croatia and it's economy.The bridge is expensive but it is very important for Croatia.The problem is that Bruxelles doesn't see it this way and they still live in a sort of a crazy dream where they expect the whole European continent to become part of EU.


----------



## bogdymol

How about an international agreement between Zagreb and Sarajevo? I mean, Croatia would build a motorway-standard road north of Neum with no exits in BiH, with a high fence on both sides and it would be closely guarded by border patrol agents from both countries.


----------



## hofburg

there was the same thing in Nova Gorica, before Schengen, and even during iron curtain.


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ Tha famous "Osimo road" 
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strada_di_Osimo


----------



## bogdymol

^^ Something like that was what I had in mind. Of course, in this situation it should be guarded more because it's close to an inhabitated area. More, at least one overpass should be built to connect Neum with rest of BiH.


----------



## italystf

The Slovenian National Road 402 connecting Nova Gorica with Podsabotin runs for 1,6km across Italian territory. This section is fenced and it's controlled by Slovenian police although it's geographically in Italy. There are overpasses connecting Sabotino mountain with the rest of Italy. This road was completed in 1985 following the Treaty of Osimo (a town in Marche, central Italy) between I and YU. This border wasn't a real Iron Curtain because Yugoslavia was a neutral country not bounded with Soviet Union and people could cross it freely only with ID.


----------



## hofburg

^ cross it using that road, for the rest of the border you needed a passport or _lasciapassare_.


----------



## italystf

hofburg said:


> ^ cross it using that road, for the rest of the border you needed a passport or _lasciapassare_.


I said cross freely because you only needed a passport to go to Yugoslavia and was the same for Yugoslavs going to Italy. At that time, western Europeans could go to the rest of eastern Europe only with visas that weren't easy to obtain and was almost impossible for their citizens to visit western Europe.


----------



## keber

bogdymol said:


> Toll station (3 kn):


3? From when? I always remember it was at least 5.


----------



## x-type

it is 5. 3 kn is for category Ia (motorcycles)


----------



## hofburg

but bogdymol wasn't on a motorcycle :nuts:


----------



## bogdymol

It is 5 kn indeed. I looked on the first column assuming that it is for cars. My mistake


----------



## KHS

RKC said:


> Part 1 of my croatian trip
> map: http://goo.gl/tFo5D
> 
> 
> 
> 
> to be continued


From Driving videos thread.

:applause:


----------



## hofburg

scenic motorway. I don't know why, but the most I like the old part Rijeka - Ostrovica.


----------



## Trilesy

KHS said:


> From Driving videos thread.
> 
> :applause:


Nice ride. I didn't realize there were so many tunnels on this highway. Very impressive.


----------



## nyl

Here's some aerial photos of HR Motorways:cheers:

Source: IPZ

*Junctions:*

*A1 Otočac*









*A1 Šibenik*









*A6 Bosiljevo*









*A5 Sredanci*









*A3 Jankomir*









*A3 Kutina*









*A3 Lužani*









*A3 Ivanja Reka*









*A3 Lipovac*









*A3 Županja*









*A3 Spačva*









*A3 Babina Greda*









*A3 Okučani*









*A3 Kopanica*









*A2 Krapina*









*A2 Zaprešić*









*A2 Durmanec*









*A2 Začertje*









*A4 Sveta Helena*









*A4 Varaždin*









*A4 Ludbreg*









*A8 Rogovići*









*A8 Kanfanar*









*A8 Žminj*


----------



## nyl

*Rest areas:*

*A6 Ravna Gora*









*A1 Dobra*









*A1 Krka*









*A3 Lužani*









*A3 Križ*









*A3 Spačva*









*A3 Lipovljani*









*A3 Stari hrastovi*









*A3 Petrovo*









*A9 Mirna*


----------



## nyl

*Tunels*

*A6 Rožman*









*A6 Tuhobić*









*A6 Sleme*









*A6 Lučice*









*A2 Fruk*









*A2 Levačica*









*A6 Istočna vrata*









*A6 Zapadna vrata*









*A2 Vidovci*









*A4 Vrtlinovec*


----------



## nyl

*Bridges and viaducts*

*A1 Gacka*









*A1 Vršci*









*A1 Glavica*









*A1 Babica*









*A1 Gradina*









*A1 Raščane*









*A1 Dobra*









*A6 Zečeve*









*A6 Golubinjak*









*A6 Bayer*









*A1 Bistrica*









*A2 Zaprešić*









*A2 Krapinčica*









*A4 Drava*









*A9 Lim*


----------



## toonczyk

Impressive collection.


----------



## Satan Of Panonia

Here's something for all you car freaks outthere...

The world's fastest electric car.The electric supercar. Made in Croatia.

http://www.rimac-automobili.com/prelaunch/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSjAnl8asaU



http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/09/rimac-automobili-concept-one-electric-supercar-boasts-1-088-hp/

The car will be shown in 3 days at the Frankfurt IAA car show.


----------



## KHS

^^

The roadside rest area 

:cheers:


----------



## panda80

This thread is on the 3rd page so it's time for a photo report, this time from A3, between the serbian border and a point 88 km east of Zagreb. Traffic is scarce till Slavonski Brod, becoming denser and denser as we approached Zagreb. 

1. Entering Croatia at Lipovac border crossing









2. The exit of Lipovac:









3.









4. Spacva rest area:









5.









6. Exit to Brcko:









7.









8. Going further to Zagreb:









9. Another rest area


----------



## panda80

10. Exit to Zupanja









11. 









12.









13. Zagreb is still 2 hours drive away:









14.









15.









16.









17. Exit Velika Kopanica:









18. 









19.
As we approach Sredanci interchange, Dakovo appears on signs:









20. Touristic sign for Kopacki Rit national park:


----------



## panda80

21.
Interchange with A5. Pecs is signed here also:









22. A5 is named Slavonika:









23.









24.









25.









26. After A5 merges into A3, traffic increases a little bit, but still the motorway is far from congested:









27.









28. Near Slavonski Brod:









29. 









30.


----------



## panda80

31. Slavonski Brod west exit is closed:









32. Another rest area:









33. Works on the motorway for a few kilometres:









34.









35. Zagreb is still 1,5 hours ahead:









36.









37. Exit Luzani:









38.









39.


----------



## panda80

40. Still over 150kms to go to Zagreb. A3 is a very looong motorway:









41.









42. Some works:









43. Touristic sign:









44.
Exit Novska:









45.









46. 88 kms to go till Zagreb:









Unfortunately I have no more pictures from here on, as I had to drive the car because my girlfriend felt exhausted after driving from Belgrade till here. I need to ask bogdymol how I can convince my girlfriend to take road photos, as she is not so receptive to these activities.


----------



## Satan Of Panonia

panda80 said:


> Unfortunately I have no more pictures from here on, as I had to drive the car because my girlfriend felt exhausted after driving from Belgrade till here. I need to ask bogdymol how I can convince my girlfriend to take road photos, as she is not so receptive to these activities.


Simple,park 10-20 km from the highway ,some forrest or a place which is not too crowded and smack the shit out of her!:laugh:


----------



## hofburg

Chris did it, if I remeber well.

A7 will be a great motorway.


----------



## x-type

pitty that you haven't recorded the most interesting part


----------



## x-type

A1 near Gospić today afternoon









A6 near Vrata (tunnel Tuhobić) now









A6 near Delnice (tunnel Vršek) now









A6 Ravna Gora now


----------



## Filipdr

x-type said:


> A1 near Gospić today afternoon


Whoo, it's snowing in Croatia?


----------



## Zanovijetalo

Only yesterday, some rain and snow mostly in Gorski Kotar area, and in fact it was a relief as we are having the worst drought in decades.


----------



## Filipdr

Zanovijetalo said:


> Only yesterday, some rain and snow mostly in Gorski Kotar area, and in fact it was a relief as we are having the worst drought in decades.


Yesterday morning it was almost 24°C in Belgrade and by night the temperature dropped to 9°C!

The climate these days...


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## bogdymol

Yesterday I was wearing just a T-shirt and I had to turn the A/C ON for the entire 60 km trip I've made with my car. This morning (at 11 am) there was only 6°C outside...


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## Bzyq_74

Has anyone information about traffic on the roads in Croatia and for example the A1 motorway in the summer period July-August. (number of motor vehicles / 24h)


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## ChrisZwolle

^^

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A1_(Croatia)#Traffic_volume


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## x-type

Bzyq_74 said:


> Has anyone information about traffic on the roads in Croatia and for example the A1 motorway in the summer period July-August. (number of motor vehicles / 24h)


yep. here is for 2010. at the page 28 is what you search /(motorways start at page 36.
statistics for 2011 are not published yet.


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## Bzyq_74

Thx a lot : Okay:


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## Verso

x-type said:


> yep. here is for 2010. at the page 28 is what you search /(motorways start at page 36.
> statistics for 2011 are not published yet.


Croatian motorways are so empty, even close to Zagreb. What about the bypass? I don't see numbers for it. Are there traffic jams in rush hours?


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## x-type

Verso said:


> Croatian motorways are so empty, even close to Zagreb. What about the bypass? I don't see numbers for it. Are there traffic jams in rush hours?


not that much as at LJ bypass. whole day the traffic is higher than average and often there is traffic flowing parallely in both lanes, but speed is not decreased. at Lučko - Jankomir section there is often decreased speed. but not under 100.
you can find traffic standing at exit ramps in rush hours at Jankomir, Buzin and Sesvetski Kraljevec. of course, i am talking about non-summer periods.


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## Verso

^^ Sounds like driving paradise.  ZG bypass isn't as 'urban' as LJ bypass though. They should delevel Slavonska/Ljubljanska Avenue.


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## x-type

Verso said:


> ^^ Sounds like driving paradise.  ZG bypass isn't as 'urban' as LJ bypass though. They should delevel Slavonska/Ljubljanska Avenue.


they are actually doing denivelation there. they have solved most crucial intersections. unfortunately, western part has many traffic lights still (just counted them - 7 at eastern half), but there are not that large intersections.

and yes, ZG bypass is more transit motorway, than it is important for local traffic.


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## zezi

Bzyq_74 said:


> Has anyone information about traffic on the roads in Croatia and for example the A1 motorway in the summer period July-August. (number of motor vehicles / 24h)


Here you have for 2011 but not for all motorways
http://www.hac.hr/files/file/promet/promet/brojanje/pldp/PLDP_2011.pdf


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## Puležan

edit (problem with forum)


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## keber

In short, we must wait at least 3 year (probably at least 4 if future of concession is still not clear now). 

At least section Pazin - Borut (Cerovlje) could be done faster, original half was already built as part of future expressway (even with toll booths).


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## gorgoroth

roader said:


> Evo da se sjetimo onog velikog brda materijala kod Okreti/čvor Kanfanar koji je iskopan u usjeku kod Kanfanara,sada to izgleda ovako
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## gorgoroth

roader said:


> A8 pred otvorenje dionice Kanfanar-Pazin
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## gorgoroth

roader said:


> A8 pred otvorenje dionice Kanfanar-Pazin
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## gorgoroth

roader said:


> A8 Pod dionica Pazin-Cerovlje na njoj su zasad samo geodeti u par grupa i mjere,premjeravaju,izmjeruju.....jednostavno šuljaju se po cesti hno:
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## ChrisZwolle

At least write in English what we see in the pictures.


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## gorgoroth

sorry, I just switched over from the Croatian part of the Forum

It is about the opening of the motorway A8 Kanfanar-Pazin:cheers:


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## Puležan

^^In short:
*1st post* - material depot (gravel excavated during the construction of that big cut, and later used on other sections of road); now and before

*2nd post* - section Kanfanar-Žminj, two-way traffic except on the Kanfanar junction and Žminj exit. This section is waiting for technical review and after that it will be open (planned opening date is the end of this month)

*3rd post* - section Žminj-Pazin, one-way traffic (2+2) until Rogovići exit

*4th post* - section Pazin-Cerovlje, geodetic measuring of the road because this section is next to be widened to a full profile. Two people and their dog trying to run across the road because there's no fencehno:

So, in couple of days there will be another 18 kms of motorway opened (Kanfanar-Pazin) which will improve the traffic safety and flow on that section, because it's the most busiest section of A8 (people going from Pula to Pazin):cheers:


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## keber

What about next part from Pazin onward?


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## Puležan

keber said:


> What about next part from Pazin onward?


You understand croatian, so here's the article:
http://www.glasistre.hr/istra/vijest/343591

For those who don't understand, let's say something about it...

-the most important section is Pazin-tunnel Učka, which will cost 250-300 million € (including second tube of Učka tunnel); this section is a little bit more difficult because it hasn't been planned as a motorway from the beginning, so there are some curves which are too curvy and the carriageway is too narrow

-Učka-Matulji/Permani section (connection to A7) is not planned now, because there is some discrepancy between regional and state spatial plans (primorsko-goranska county has planned end of the motorway in Matulji as today is, while state plan has it in Permani)

-annual incomes of the concessionaire (Bina Istra) are: 
30 mil € from toll
18 mil € from state compensation
total - 48 mil €

-their debt today is 610 mil €, so they want to prolong their concession to 40 years (now it's 32 years which will end in 2027) in way to be able to return funds and to complete construction. Negotiations with the ministry are in progress, and probably their request will be approved because they had taken some other obligations which weren't included in original contract, such as building a new road from Pula junction to Pomer (8km) and connection road from Umag exit to border crossings Kaštel and Plovanija

-if the planning and construction starts immediately, the Pazin-Učka section could be finished in 2014:cheers:


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## jeremiash

How does the state compensation thing work? Why do they get it? Do they keep all of the toll or only part?


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## Puležan

jeremiash said:


> How does the state compensation thing work? Why do they get it? Do they keep all of the toll or only part?


Because first plan in the middle of '90s was to toll the single-carriageway expressway, but people complained about that so the state later had cancelled that part of the contract and decided to pay the "lost toll" to the concessionaire, who was obliged to build a motorway (but didn't have enough money). Today Bina Istra as the concessionaire keeps the whole amount of toll and uses it for paying their debts and for construction.


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## keber

In short, we must wait at least 3 year (probably at least 4 if future of concession is still not clear now). 

At least section Pazin - Borut (Cerovlje) should be done faster, original half was already built as part of future expressway (even with toll booths).


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## x-type

i presonally think there is no sense to double existing sigle-cxarriageway from Rijeka to tunnel Učka, but they should build completely new motorway in the hills northwestern from existing expressway. existing expressway is too curvy, and i don't see clever solution for motorway through Matulji where it runs through urban area.


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## Puležan

keber said:


> In short, we must wait at least 3 year (probably at least 4 if future of concession is still not clear now).


That's right. First sections from Pazin to the east could be finished in min 2-3 years (Pazin-Cerovlje is cca 10 kms long section, so it's not that much).



> At least section Pazin - Borut (Cerovlje) should be done faster, original half was already built as part of future expressway (even with toll booths).


That's partially true. That section hasn't been planned as 2x2 from the beginning, which can be seen on this overpass not planned for 2x2 road under it. http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=45.229478&lon=13.928175&z=17&l=0&m=s

But still, after that overpass there's no other before Lupoglav exit, and the terrain is flat, so upgrading to a full profile will be easy and fast


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## Verso

Just returned from Pula; the motorway was totally empty. :nuts: But why is the speed limit only 110 km/h even on the eastern (new) half with a hard shoulder?


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## darko06

I asked the same question when this motorway was opened. They didn't give me satisfying answer.


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## hofburg

x-type said:


> i presonally think there is no sense to double existing sigle-cxarriageway from Rijeka to tunnel Učka, but they should build completely new motorway in the hills northwestern from existing expressway. existing expressway is too curvy, and i don't see clever solution for motorway through Matulji where it runs through urban area.


where exactly would you do that? the terrain is very elevated all around there. also I noticed there's one in-level interchange just in the begining of A8 near Rijeka. Will it stay like that?


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## x-type

darko06 said:


> I asked the same question when this motorway was opened. They didn't give me satisfying answer.


existing road is constructed for speeds up to 110. due to stupid Croatian habbits, 110 remained (probably because of radius of curves). you know that HR has probably the most stupid limits in Europe (beside these Scandinavian nonsenses like 90 on the motorway) 



hofburg said:


> where exactly would you do that? the terrain is very elevated all around there. also I noticed there's one in-level interchange just in the begining of A8 near Rijeka. Will it stay like that?


they really plan to do it. here is one of the maps where you can see it. in this case intersection with traffic lights remains definitely.


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## Verso

x-type said:


> existing road is constructed for speeds up to 110. due to stupid Croatian habbits, 110 remained (probably because of radius of curves).


True, the motorway is quite winding.


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## toonczyk

x-type said:


> you know that HR has probably the most stupid limits in Europe (beside these Scandinavian nonsenses like 90 on the motorway)


I think that's debatable, I think speed limits I've seen in Croatia are quite sensible compared to some other countries. How about enforcement - are those speed limits really enforced by the police? I've never seen anyone being pulled over on motorways in Croatia, and that's not that uncommon in other countries nowadays.


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## keber

Verso said:


> True, the motorway is quite winding.


Not from Poreč toward south. There could be easily 130 km/h limit.



toonczyk said:


> I think that's debatable, I think speed limits I've seen in Croatia are quite sensible compared to some other countries.


Hm, you haven't seen most of Croatia. 40 km/h speed limits on 80 km/h curves, towns and villages beginning even a kilometer from the first house, 60 km/h speed limits, that take many kilometers, and all that on all types of roads except motorways, that is very annoying.


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## ivan_ri

x-type said:


> they really plan to do it. here is one of the maps where you can see it. in this case intersection with traffic lights remains definitely.


according to current official document of Matulji, there will be no traffic lights on that intersection :cheers:


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## x-type

toonczyk said:


> I think that's debatable, I think speed limits I've seen in Croatia are quite sensible compared to some other countries. How about enforcement - are those speed limits really enforced by the police? I've never seen anyone being pulled over on motorways in Croatia, and that's not that uncommon in other countries nowadays.


uhm, they do that a lot, mostly in civil cars. but if your doing up to 150, they will not touch you.



keber said:


> Hm, you haven't seen most of Croatia. 40 km/h speed limits on 80 km/h curves, towns and villages beginning even a kilometer from the first house, 60 km/h speed limits, that take many kilometers, and all that on all types of roads except motorways, that is very annoying.


exactly. main problems:
1) state roads. it is so easy to put sign 40, 50 or 60 before the curve or some special point, and in the case of accident to easily blaim driver for exceeding the limit. or signing the village where it actually isn't (unless fields and meadows are village), and to lower limits i that way.
2) motorways. it is so easy to put general speed limit 110 no curvy section, and who cares for those straight sections inside that limit, where could easily be put 120 or 130.
2b) motorways on toll station approaches. the hell with 50 km/h sign 500 metres before toll booths!! and lowering starts 1 km before booths (100 at 1000 m, 80 at 800 m, 60 at 600 m, 50 at 400 m). i have made a test - if you are doing 70-80 only 200 metres before toll booths, you can easily stop without hard braking.


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## keber

I forgot also 80 or 60 km/h motorway speed limit when moderate wind (not strong) that does not influence driving car noticeably. Last time when I was going from Dalmatia, there was light bura from Zadar until Split and there was everywhere 80 km/h speed limit which no one held (except few Germans), because there was no need for any additional speed limit.


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## x-type

actually i haven't seen 60 and 80 that much, but 100 yes. when they put 80 or 60, then usually something is really going on. maybe it remained from previously strong wind.


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## toonczyk

^^ Yeah, this year I've seen 60km/h twice on A1, both times it was really appropriate. Once it was near Sveti Rok tunnel and the wind was really rather extreme there, I've seen a camper laying on its side, 60km/h was really max of what I felt was safe for me in a sedan and it must have been rather scary for the truck drivers. The second time there was a little traffic jam hidden behind a bend (caused by a horrible accident, car smashed into rocks, not much left of it), if it wasn't for those 60km/h warning signs there would surely be a serious pile up.


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## Puležan

Verso said:


> Just returned from Pula; the motorway was totally empty. :nuts: But why is the speed limit only 110 km/h even on the eastern (new) half with a hard shoulder?





darko06 said:


> I asked the same question when this motorway was opened. They didn't give me satisfying answer.





x-type said:


> existing road is constructed for speeds up to 110. due to stupid Croatian habbits, 110 remained (probably because of radius of curves). you know that HR has probably the most stupid limits in Europe (beside these Scandinavian nonsenses like 90 on the motorway)


I gave you answer and I'll get it once more:tongue2:

The limit is 110 because A8 and A9 were first planned to be dual-carriageway expressways, which means they have 2 lanes of 3,5m on each carriageway, while motorways have 2x3,75m. Also, expressways are more curvy. The state decided only a couple of years ago to convert those 2 roads into motorways by adding a hard shoulder while building a second carriageway, so you can see that there's no hard shoulder under the overpasses (because they weren't intended to have motorway under it). *Because of croatian regulations, if the lanes are 3,5m wide, and with that curves the speed limit cannot be higher than 110 km/h!!!* Although, some sort of technical test will be made on A9 to put 130 km/h limit, because it's not so curvy and has really straight sections:cheers:

And what about this?? (picture taken on A6 at Oštrovica, towards Rijeka on 14th of October): :nuts:


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## x-type

Puležan said:


> I gave you answer and I'll get it once more:tongue2:
> 
> The limit is 110 because A8 and A9 were first planned to be dual-carriageway expressways, which means they have 2 lanes of 3,5m on each carriageway, while motorways have 2x3,75m. Also, expressways are more curvy. The state decided only a couple of years ago to convert those 2 roads into motorways by adding a hard shoulder while building a second carriageway, so you can see that there's no hard shoulder under the overpasses (because they weren't intended to have motorway under it). *Because of croatian regulations, if the lanes are 3,5m wide, and with that curves the speed limit cannot be higher than 110 km/h!!!* Although, some sort of technical test will be made on A9 to put 130 km/h limit, because it's not so curvy and has really straight sections:cheers:


oh come on, 3,50 is enough for safe traffic at 130.


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## Puležan

x-type said:


> oh come on, 3,50 is enough for safe traffic at 130.


Of course it's safe, especially with hard shoulders. I never said opposite. I'm just explaining the situation with the law end limits 

Once I had driven 150 on section Kanfanar-Pula (when my car was new), and it was nice, I felt safe...

To be honest, there could be 150 km/h limit on A1 and A3; both motorways are long, with very slight curves, between exits there are bigger distances (more than 10km, in Lika and Slavonija 15-20km) and also other technical characteristics are able to provide safeness when driving on that speed


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## darko06

I'm an architect, not a civil engineer. However, I'm sure that lane wide of 3.50 m is enough safe for speed limit of 130 km/h.

And about Matulji traffic light: this insanity was made in 1991, a few months after opening the last part of Rijeka bypass in direction Jušići. At first there was no interchange at all (contractor was blocked former access road to Matulji with New Jerseys), but Opatija City Council somehow convinced Ministry of Building to "temporarily" open this interchange for them. Because Ministry didn't have the money to build a real trompete, they simply mounted traffic lights to this newly-formed T-crossing.
The shame is that the same Ministry didn't force BINA-Istra to build this trompete, after they gave the tunnel management to them in 1997.


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## ChrisZwolle

3.50 meters is a standard lane width in some countries.


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## darko06

keber said:


> Hm, you haven't seen most of Croatia. 40 km/h speed limits on 80 km/h curves, towns and villages beginning even a kilometer from the first house, 60 km/h speed limits, that take many kilometers, and all that on all types of roads except motorways, that is very annoying.


That's the reason why I always prefer motorways and expressways.
Now, between Višnjan and Zagreb there is only about 15 km of undivided highway. (And not to be too naugty to say, that these 15 km of *undivided highway* are equipped with slow-traffic lanes on their steep parts.) :cheers:
For a comparison, between Baderna and Zagreb after the opening of Kanfanar-Pazin motorway, there will be still more than 50 km of undivided highway, which is marked as an expressway by a mistake. (And we all know that *the steep parts of that "expressway" don't posess any slow traffic lanes at all*, oops, except that last kilometer before the tunnel in Pazin direction.)


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## Verso

darko06 said:


> Now, between Višnjan and Zagreb there is only about 15 km of undivided highway. (And not to be too naugty to say, that these 15 km of *undivided highway* are equipped with slow-traffic lanes on their steep parts.) :cheers:
> For a comparison, between Baderna and Zagreb after the opening of Kanfanar-Pazin motorway, there will be still more than 50 km of undivided highway, which is marked as an expressway by a mistake. (And we all know that *the steep parts of that "expressway" don't posess any slow traffic lanes at all*, oops, except that last kilometer before the tunnel in Pazin direction.)


Višnjan and Baderna are quite close to each other, so I don't know where you found that difference between them.


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## darko06

Distance between Zagreb and Poreč via Koper (and Višnjan exit) is about 40 km longer than distance between Zagreb and Poreč via Rijeka and Kanfanar (and Baderna exit).
I think that 15 km undivided highway with slow-traffic lanes do make longer route more attractive than the short one with 50 km undivided "expressway" without slow-traffic lanes.
I don't drive on common road between Pazin and Baderna.


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## Puležan

ChrisZwolle said:


> 3.50 meters is a standard lane width in some countries.


It is, but in that case the speed limit is never 130. Look at your country 

Croatian rules say that motorways must have lanes of 3,5 or 3,75m, but then the speed limits are not the same. Pitty, because in my opinion (and other's, including engineers) 3,5m wide lanes are enough for safe driving at 130 km/h 

But, as I said yesterday, they have put a request for another technical test to see the technical possibility for 130 km/h (this kind of formality is needed) because today it's the only example of "baby-motorway" in Croatia (with 3,5m lanes)  Another example will be A12 (section Sv.Helena-Vrbovec) which is also a dual carriageway expressway, but it will get hard shoulders some day...


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## Puležan

darko06 said:


> Distance between Zagreb and Poreč via Koper (and Višnjan exit) is about 40 km longer than distance between Zagreb and Poreč via Rijeka and Kanfanar (and Baderna exit).
> I think that 15 km undivided highway with slow-traffic lanes do make longer route more attractive than the short one with 50 km undivided "expressway" without slow-traffic lanes.
> I don't drive on common road between Pazin and Baderna.


But when driving through Slovenia, you need a vignette, which many people don't have because they don't need it. Also, you'll need to pay 13 kn for Višnjan-Umag section of A9.

In other case, when coming from Poreč to Pazin, you go on D302 and D48, and then take the A8. From Pazin to Učka there's no toll (the road is still better than usual normal roads which go through towns), so you pay only 28kn for Učka and 60kn for Rijeka-Zagreb motorway - total 88kn!


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## x-type

here is the map of 24,5 km long section of A4 between Breznički Hum and Varaždin, which has general speed limit 110 km/h.
in red I have signed sections where 110 km/h is reasonable, and in green I have signed sections where could be without any problems be installed 130 km/h limit.


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## darko06

Puležan;85043294 said:


> But when driving through Slovenia, you need a vignette, which many people don't have because they don't need it. Also, you'll need to pay 13 kn for Višnjan-Umag section of A9.
> 
> In other case, when coming from Poreč to Pazin, you go on D302 and D48, and then take the A8. From Pazin to Učka there's no toll (the road is still better than usual normal roads which go through towns), so you pay only 28kn for Učka and 60kn for Rijeka-Zagreb motorway - total 88kn!


I'm supposed to go to Austria 5-6 times a year, so I'm regularly buying yearly Slovenian and Austrian vignettes.

A yearly Slovenian vignette costs 95 eur, what is about 710 kn.

I'm also supposed to go from Zagreb to Poreč several times a year.

Toll expenses for one trip from Zagreb to Poreč through tunnel Učka are 88x2=176 kn. (When recalculating A9 toll, real expenses are 176-26=150 kn. Okay, I'm frequently travelling to Dalmatia for business purposes, so I also posess EASYPASS for the ARZ and HAC, which gives me opportunity to pay A3 toll without stop.)
So for a sixth time I'm travelling toll-free through Slovenia.:cheers:

EDIT: And believe me, I don't like to drive from Baderna to Pazin on the old road. It's curvy, and full of trucks, or worse, agricultural vehicles in spring or autumn.

Every time when I was travelling through Slovenia, I saw a car or two with PU(la) register plates.


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## keber

Puležan;85043097 said:


> It is, but in that case the speed limit is never 130. Look at your country


Germany (you know the speed limit ...):
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richtlinien_für_die_Anlage_von_Autobahnen


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## Puležan

*Motorway from Kanfanar to Pazin opened today*

http://www.glasistre.hr/istra/vijest/344146

Today morning, the 18km long section of A8 was opened to traffic. It's the section from Kanfanar junction (A8/A9) to Rogovići exit (Pazin west). These are the first full-profile kilometres of A8 Now, there's total 98km of full-profile motorways in Istra, from Kaštel border crossing to Pula (A9), and from Kanfanar to Pazin (A8). The rest of the road, from Pazin to Rijeka bypass/A7 (via tunnel Učka) is still a half profile road.

The toll for this 18km section is 8kn. Here you can calculate toll for all sections of A8 and A9 (just click to the entering toll station, and then the exit): http://www.bina-istra.com/Default.aspx?sid=2039


























:cheers:


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## Verso

^^ Congrats! I must admit I've never driven on A8; I really have to try it one day!


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## JackFrost

are there any works going on currently on A5 towards H border?


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## Puležan

Jack_Frost said:


> are there any works going on currently on A5 towards H border?


Preparations on the construction site for the bridge across Drava river. Here are some photos from our forumer damper:


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## x-type

Verso said:


> ^^ Congrats! I must admit I've never driven on A8; I really have to try it one day!


i also never drove on A9 north of Kanfanar  it is totally out of all my routes (the same as Slovenian A5 adn A1 between MB and LJ - i will drive them once, but only for my satisfaction)


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## Verso

^^ Slovenian A5 leads to Mursko Središće. That's our second-longest motorway to Croatia.


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## italystf

Is A9 already completed as a full-profile motorway all the way from Pula to SLO border, including the long viaduct over Mirna valley? Has it a closed toll system?

When the A8 Pazin - Opatija is planned to be completed? Will they dig a second tube for Ucka tunnel?


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## Puležan

italystf said:


> Is A9 already completed as a full-profile motorway all the way from Pula to SLO border, including the long viaduct over Mirna valley? Has it a closed toll system?
> 
> When the A8 Pazin - Opatija is planned to be completed? Will they dig a second tube for Ucka tunnel?


A9 starts about 2 km from the border, but it's connected with both border crossings (Kaštel and Plovanija). Second Mirna bridge and Limska Draga viaduct are not built yet, but the rest of the 80km-long motorway is finished (including new road from Pula junction towards south (Medulin, Premantura, Pomer).
http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=44.865603&lon=13.9100647&z=12&l=0&m=o

A9 (and A8) has closed toll system (Pula-Umag costs 37 kn, cca 5€).

You can find informations of upgrading A8 on the previous pages of this thread. Here's my post: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=84948561&postcount=3597
:cheers:


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## x-type

Verso said:


> ^^ Slovenian A5 leads to Mursko Središće. That's our second-longest motorway to Croatia.


if you see me in that area, that means that i'm traveling in direction Graz and avoiding a vignette system


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## Filipdr

x-type said:


> if you see me in that area, that means that i'm traveling in direction Graz and avoiding a vignette system


^^ :lol:


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## MHN

Puležan said:


> *Motorway from Kanfanar to Pazin opened today*
> 
> http://www.glasistre.hr/istra/vijest/344146
> 
> Today morning, the 18km long section of A8 was opened to traffic.
> 
> ...


Good news! Thanks.
I have been driving on A8 once a year, since 2007.




Puležan said:


> You understand croatian, so here's the article:
> http://www.glasistre.hr/istra/vijest/343591
> 
> For those who don't understand, let's say something about it...
> 
> ...
> 
> -if the planning and construction starts immediately, the Pazin-Učka section could be finished in 2014:cheers:


I wish this planning could be feasible but hardly believe it.
Nevertheless, I'm appreciating the effort of the Bina Istra company :cheers2:


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## Filipdr

^^ Very nice!


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## il brutto

x-type said:


> if you see me in that area, that means that i'm traveling in direction Graz and avoiding a vignette system


Just be careful, Google thinks Mursko Središće border crossing is closed for cars (it's ok on foot though), but fortunately they propose some alternatives


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## x-type

il brutto said:


> Just be careful, Google thinks Mursko Središće border crossing is closed for cars (it's ok on foot though), but fortunately they propose some alternatives


they also don't recognize one of the bussiest Croatian border crossings - Bajakovo/Batrovci: link


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## keber

Because south half of motorway is "broken" on Serbian side (zoom border crossing fully). It works OK in direction Serbia -> Croatia


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## KHS

A1 U/C south from Vrgorac



NikolaZGB said:


> *A1 6.11.2011.*



A1 - section Vrgorac - Ravča, Drvenik overpass U/C 


NikolaZGB said:


> *A1 6.11.2011.*


:cheers:


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## toonczyk

KHS said:


> A1 U/C south from Vrgorac


That looks really impressive! What company is responsible for this contract and how much will it cost? And is it still planned to be opened by the end of 2012, or is there any chance for it to be ready earlier?


KHS said:


> A1 - section Vrgorac - Ravča, Drvenik overpass U/C


What road is that for? I remember there was a plan for a new tunnel connecting D8 and A1 around this area, is it for this road? Or is that just a new overpass for D512?


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## Puležan

toonczyk said:


> What road is that for? I remember there was a plan for a new tunnel connecting D8 and A1 around this area, is it for this road? Or is that just a new overpass for D512?


That's a new expressway from Ravča to Drvenik (you can see it on a map: http://www.wikimapia.org/#lat=43.1849022&lon=17.2775459&z=13&l=20&m=o ), which will connect Drvenik (important ferry harbour) with motorway. It will be a single carriageway road (but without in-level crossings)


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## toonczyk

^^ Great, any estimated date of opening? Actually this year I used a ferry to Drvenik and then there was this long, long drive on D8 before I could finally get on A1, so this expressway seems really needed there. On the other hand, this probably requires a really long tunnel, as those mountains are massive, so I suppose cost is also very high.


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## keber

I think some long tunnel will be needed to be dug before opening. As even tunnel Biokovo for Makarska still isn't open after quite some years after first works I doubt new road for Drvenik will be ready will be anytime soon


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## KHS

toonczyk said:


> And is it still planned to be opened by the end of 2012, or is there any chance for it to be ready earlier?


A1 from Vrgorac to Ploče expressway is planned to be opened by the end of 2012. although there has been some talking that it could be finished earlier. Maybe autumn next year... :dunno:


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## Zanovijetalo

Ravča – Drvenik is estimated 126M euros; Hrvatske Ceste applied for the pre-accession EU funds money for this.


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## stickedy

KHS said:


> A1 U/C south from Vrgorac


Isn't that actually D425 U/C somewehere here?

BTW: Is A1 already U/C from Vrgorac to Interchange Metkovic and A10 from that Interchange to border BiH? Last summer I saw some ongoing works while driving D64 from Mali Prolog to Metkovic but it wasn't really visible if this were the motorways or something different. motorway-exitlist also list A1 to Metkovic and A10 to be u/c: http://motorways-exitlists.com/europe/hr/a1.htm / http://motorways-exitlists.com/europe/hr/a10.htm

With finishing dates 06/2012...


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## ChrisZwolle

When will the next sections of A11 open? A while ago it was stated as "in 2011".


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## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> When will the next sections of A11 open? A while ago it was stated as "in 2011".


you asked that only to keep the thread alive because you are conscious that nor God nor Allah nor Buddha knows that answer


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## ChrisZwolle

No I wanted to update my wegenwiki article. I haven't seen any construction updates recently. Are they actually working on it now?


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## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> No I wanted to update my wegenwiki article. I haven't seen any construction updates recently. Are they actually working on it now?


i am in that area really rarely. i know that on intersection A3/A11 they do work something indeed, although for that period they could build 5 similar interchanges. sometimes there are some workers and working machines moving, but just few of them. they have also installed some direction signs on that intersection (waay too early).
for southern section to Lekenig i really have no clue.


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## grofBombelles

x-type said:


> i am in that area really rarely. i know that on intersection A3/A11 they do work something indeed, although for that period they could build 5 similar interchanges. sometimes there are some workers and working machines moving, but just few of them. they have also installed some direction signs on that intersection (waay too early).
> for southern section to Lekenig i really have no clue.


I am guessing they are working with kindergarden sandpit building kit


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## seem

Zanovijetalo said:


> Ravča – Drvenik is estimated 126M euros; Hrvatske Ceste applied for the pre-accession EU funds money for this.


That's really good for 12 km long motorway in such a terrain. Btw it will be great to drive on it, looks absolutely fantastic. :cheers:


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## stickedy

It should be more like an expressway...


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## admirer of sir ALEX

I have some nice photos of CMN (Croatian motorway network) from air(2007/2008). I do not know where to put it. Some idea?


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## x-type

here?

but previously check if it wasn't posted (if it isn't made by you, it probably was posted) and watch out for size of the photos. i think that i know what you will put, but try to surprise me.


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## geor

deleted


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## geor

deleted


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## x-type

geor said:


> As for HW work zone, today I passed throug one at Adriatic avenue towards Zagreb (organized by zagrebacke ceste). It looked like this:
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> 
> As U/C they diverted two traffic flow at one point without necessary distance between them. Of corse, there weren"t any blinking lights in the fog conditions, and there weren"t any buffer zone between working stuff and the tranzition zone. What the hell did the police and inspectors do?


this is isolated case. roadworks at HR motorways are signed over average in EU. Jadranska is more like city avenue. at which part that was? i think there are no more 110 km/h parts at Jadranska, so that shouldn't make too large problem.


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## geor

deleted


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## geor

deleted


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## geor

deleted


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## geor

deleted


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## geor

deleted


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## ChrisZwolle

It means you have to turn your engine off if there is a queue. 

Can you post them with a hotlink instead of a small thumbnail?


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## x-type

geor said:


> Where did they install this sign from? In currently traffic regulations there is no this sign. Čl. 103. of TR say: Every sign that doesn"t comply with this Traffic Regulations must be moved out until 31.12.2010.
> Does anybody know its meaning and in which combination is applied?
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> 
> Is it necessary to have traffic lights& lights of traffic lines turned on in normal conditions in front of the tunnels portals(150m)?


E50. Chris has explained you the meaning. in NN it is different, but in 1999 when I attended driving schoole there was already present this one.

i don't know what is weird about building site in your post (near Ravča afaik). 

working zones test? i remember the one from ADAC some 5 years ago on A3, which was on hard reconstruction. yes, those were not signed properly. since then the situation has drasticly changed. all construction sites have proper warnings on approaching up to 2 km before themselves, 1 km before starts calming the traffic (gradual narrowing) and finally at the beginning of construction site there are agressive warnings, blinking lights etc etc. finally, i have nowhere in Eurpe seen such densely placed those red-white things which spilt directions as in HR.


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## geor

deleted


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## x-type

GROBIN said:


> ^^
> 
> Bosnia & Herzegovina can always enter the Schengen zone without entering the EU, like Norway, Iceland or Switzerland whose people voted against the EU.
> 
> According to a survey made in HR, French journalists from BFM TV said 58% of Croatians want their country to join the EU. How does it really look around you ? I hope you join at least Schengen !


58? today i heard of 55,1% and it was raise from last week :lol:
however, the rest is not against, but there are about 38% (if i remember well) agtainst and the rest is undecided yet.

my Slovenian friends told me that free Schengen zone was the only good thing they have got with EU :lol:


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## Zagor666

GROBIN said:


> ^^
> 
> Bosnia & Herzegovina can always enter the Schengen zone without entering the EU, like Norway, Iceland or Switzerland whose people voted against the EU


Are your sure that Switzerland has signed the Schengen Contract?There are still Border Controlls


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## bogdymol

Zagor666 said:


> Are your sure that Switzerland has signed the Schengen Contract?


The question is not for me, but... yes, I am sure.



Zagor666 said:


> There are still Border Controlls


No, there are not.

*even with Schengen police can stop you in the border area for some random checks, but not all the cars are stopped like before.


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## Zagor666

I drive every year to Switzerland and there are real Border Controlls like 10 Years ago :cheers:


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## bogdymol

Zagor666 said:


> I drive every year to Switzerland and there are real Border Controlls like 10 Years ago :cheers:


When were you there last time? Since December 12th 2008 Switzerland has joined Schengen and abolished permanent border checks.

As I said before, you might have been choosed for a random check. I have been stopped once at CZ/SK border eventhough they are in Schengen.


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## tom666

Zagor666 said:


> Are your sure that Switzerland has signed the Schengen Contract?There are still Border Controlls


Because of the customs procedures, I guess.


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## Zagor666

Switzerland must have Border Controlls otherwise People would carrie in and out evrything there is :cheers:
Last time we entered Switzerland in July 2011 on the Bad Säckingen/Stein Crossing and there was a prety long traffic jam


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## GROBIN

Zagor666 said:


> I drive every year to Switzerland and there are real Border Controlls like 10 Years ago :cheers:


Strange ... Wikipedia states otherwise ... Although what they state about border controls between the UK (Ulster) & Republic of Ireland seems to be untrue ...


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## ChrisZwolle

There are no border controls at the Swiss border. They do not stop every single vehicle, and check passports and cars. However, they do frequently check if you have a vignette, plus they also frequently pick out suspicious vehicles, so it looks a lot like regular border controls, but it isn't. Trucks still have to go through customs, though transit freight is not thoroughly checked as far as I know.


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## Zagor666

If from 25 Cars they controll 23 for me that is a regular Border Controll,but nevermind
i suggest that somebody kicks the last few Posts in the Switzerland Thread :cheers:


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## radi6404

Now what is that, my father got charged 20 e again, when any fool here says, Serbia Slovenia costs 16 € he is retarted, cause my father paid 15 e at the first checkpoint and at the last he asked several times how much money and the guy said 5 €, it even displayed on the display but I was too slow to grab out my camera, now can someone please explain it to me? The croatian motorways are not very good anyway, the asphalt is very hard and the motorways are wavy as a motorcoaster and very loud, after we entered Slvenia we felt and heart nothing, can anyone explain me the high tax.


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## Verso

^^ 



Zagor666 said:


> Are your sure that Switzerland has signed the Schengen Contract?There are still Border Controlls


Yes, Switzerland is in the Schengen Area, which means no passport control (at least in theory), but it's not in the EU, which means control of goods (if you have anything to declare). Just like Liechtenstein, Norway and Iceland.


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## Schweden

I'm not sure what you are talking about Radi. Honestly.


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## nenea_hartia

Schweden said:


> I'm not sure what you are talking about Radi. Honestly.


I believe he is complaining about Slovenian vignette. I really don't know how much SLO vignette costs now, but two years ago, when I crossed SLO, it was like they left me the unique chance to feel the moon's surface.


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## Verso

^^ No, he's talking about Croatia. But what "Moon's surface" in Slovenia are you talking about?


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## panda80

nenea_hartia said:


> I believe he is complaining about Slovenian vignette. I really don't know how much SLO vignette costs now, but two years ago, when I crossed SLO, it was like they left me the unique chance to feel the moon's surface.


Radi is talking about the total toll on Croatian A3, from serbian border to slovenian border. As I remember from last summer the toll was 15 euro till Zagreb and then another euro till the slovenian border.
Slovenian 10 days vignette was 15 euro.


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## x-type

i think he tries to convince us that the toll from Zagreb to SLO border is 5€ (and it is 5 kn actually)


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## bogdymol

^^









Picture taken by me few months ago.


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## ChrisZwolle

I drove there in 2009 and paid by credit card. I'm sure the tolls were just € 0.60 or something similar. Definitely not € 5.


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## italystf

In 2008 I was at Rupa toll booth on A7 and they asked 5kn or 1 euro coin (toll is fix and not distance-based here). In the latter case, they gave 2 kn as charge but they didn't accepted eurocents but only 1 euro coins.


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## Zagor666

marchionni said:


> isnt NP Bregana "naplatna postaja"? meaning toll station?


No,its Narodna Pivara which means The People´s Brewery and that means everybody get´s a free Beer :cheers:


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## KHS

*Rijeka bypass (A7), section Hreljin - Križišće*

Section Sv. Kuzam-Hreljin should be finished in July 2012. and section Hreljin-Križišće in June 2013. 












misipile said:


> Uploaded with ImageShack.us





misipile said:


> Evo, malo bolje, slikano aparatom koji se zatekao u autu.
> 
> Kuk, iz Turina Sela (gornji dio Bakarca):
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> http://www.dermandar.com/p/aAtPik/krizisce-gradiliste-a7



:cheers:


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## YLLIRICON

*A1 Bridge nea Ploce to Terpanje?*

hi there any news of the bridge which is being/to be build in the peninsula from Ploce to Terpanje ?


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## x-type

YLLIRICON said:


> hi there any news of the bridge which is being/to be build in the peninsula from Ploce to Terpanje ?


project currently suspended


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## cougar1989

I looked into our family holiday pictures and I found these old motorway pictures
From 1995:
I think that is the A3 near Zagreb


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## italystf

^^You went there just after the war?


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## KHS

cougar1989 said:


> I think that is the A3 near Zagreb


A3, Zagreb bypass

:cheers:


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## cougar1989

italystf said:


> You went there just after the war?


1995 I was 6 years old. 1995 there was the war. We were first at Hungary (Balaton) than my Dad wants to travel to Croatia for 3 days.
At the Hungarian / Croatian Border there were we and 2 Motorbikers from Gotha (Germany). At the Border there was the UN too. They told us that we travel to Croatia at our own risk, because of the war and the mines.
We were 3 days at Crikvenica near Rijeka.


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## italystf

cougar1989 said:


> 1995 I was 6 years old. 1995 there was the war. We were first at Hungary (Balaton) than my Dad wants to travel to Croatia for 3 days.
> At the Hungarian / Croatian Border there were we and 2 Motorbikers from Gotha (Germany). At the Border there was the UN too. They told us that we travel to Croatia at our own risk, because of the war and the mines.
> We were 3 days at Crikvenica near Rijeka.


AFAIK, war had never been fought in Istria and Rijeka area, so probably passing through Zagreb toward this part of Croatia wasn't so dangerous like Slavonia or Dalmatia.


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## cougar1989

At our Croatian Holidays in Crikvenica from 1995 to 2003 we were every year at different appartements, the hosts told us, that they mostly knew the war from the Television.
Yes Slavonia or Dalmatia was dangerous


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## x-type

omg ancient photos of Lučko interchange!! such exclusive! i don't remember the signs and had no idea that there were the signs indicating Rijeka and Split there before motorways were built!



italystf said:


> AFAIK, war had never been fought in Istria and Rijeka area, so probably passing through Zagreb toward this part of Croatia wasn't so dangerous like Slavonia or Dalmatia.


uf, passing through Karlovac wasn't that benign, there was a occupied area just beside the city. for instance, you could not use the road 1 from Karlovac to Slunj - Gračac - Knin - Split till 1995. i remember it, at this place you should have chosen turning right to direction Duga Resa and Rijeka, or lefto to Karlovac centre. straight - forbidden.


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## veteran

cougar1989 said:


> 1995 I was 6 years old. 1995 there was the war. We were first at Hungary (Balaton) than my Dad wants to travel to Croatia for 3 days.
> At the Hungarian / Croatian Border there were we and 2 Motorbikers from Gotha (Germany). At the Border there was the UN too. They told us that we travel to Croatia at our own risk, because of the war and the mines.
> We were 3 days at Crikvenica near Rijeka.


I was in Poreč as child in IX/1995. It was just after "Oluja" operation and Croats got back the territory of so-called "Republic of Serbian Krajina" (incl. Karlovac vicinity). Road through Karlovac was free but there were some damaged tanks.



x-type said:


> for instance, you could not use the road 1 from Karlovac to Slunj - Gračac - Knin - Split till 1995


Yes, but at that time it was road no. 13 (old YU-numbering system)


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## x-type

veteran said:


> Yes, but at that time it was road no. 13 (old YU-numbering system)


that's right. existing numbering system was introduced at 12.05.1997. (except motorways, their numbering scheme was introduced at 24.04.2003.)


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## Verso

Holidays in Croatia were very cheap during the war, so Slovenes represented about half of all foreign tourists.


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## italystf

Verso said:


> Holidays in Croatia were very cheap during the war, so Slovenes represented about half of all foreign tourists.


Even if Istria and Kvarner gulf were safe, I guess that organization and facilities were terrible, since most of the country was war-torn and its economy destroyed. Probably it was like a trip to the Third World next your door.


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## Verso

^^ Yes, facilities were quite damaged by refugees from Slavonia and Dalmatia. But stores were functioning normally, and the sea and the sun were the same.


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## il brutto

I don't remember it being too bad. War was relatively far, trade links to Slovenia were still working if it was difficult to get ceratin products from other parts of Croatia.


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## geor

Winter and hurricane on MW A6 with VMS signalization:

VMS at Zagreb-Lucko entry with announced danger


VMS Karlovac


VMS at Grobnik for the same reason


Damaged Hungarian truck by Bura at Grobnik 


VMS at interchange Kikovica


VMS at interchange Jaska


VMS at IC Delnice


Damaged signalization for closing the B7


Damaged V.S.Signalization at interchange Kikovica


Damaged signalization at interchange Vrata

Snow removing


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## hofburg

nice! could you even drive without snow chains on this?


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## ChrisZwolle

Are there alternatives if there is a Bora occurring?


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## bogdymol

hofburg said:


> nice! could you even drive without snow chains on this?


I would say that you could. Few days ago city-streets in my town looked a lot worse than what's in those pics and I drove without any problems only with winter tyres (without chains... but I had them prepared in the trunk just in case).

edit: here it is, just with winter tyres:


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## geor

hofburg said:


> nice! could you even drive without snow chains on this?


Yes, of course. We have the best snow removing from MW in the world.
Only big trucks with trailers are banned. All other can go with winter tyres


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## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> Are there alternatives if there is a Bora occurring?


the most often closed section is on A1 Sveti Rok - Posedarje. when it is closed, traffic is redirected on D50 and D27 Sveti Rok - Gračac - Obrovac - Zadar, what is cca 30 km longer.

second the most often closed due to wind is A6 Delnice - Kikovica. you can bypass it on D3 Delnice - Gornje Jelenje - Grobnik, but frankly i wouldn't like to experience strong wind on Gornje Jelenje - Grobnik


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## geor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Are there alternatives if there is a Bora occurring?


Only stretch between Delnice and Kikovica is now closed, due to hurricane on viaducts Hreljin & Bukovo. The alternative is via D3; Delnice-Gornje Jelenje-Grobnik(Kikovica) at Rijeka.


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## geor

Last time i took this pic at the viaduct Hreljin. Truck was overturned by Bura gust at 25-28m/s and while the pavement was wet (not snowed).



Today once more a truck with trailer is overturned in Rijeka but no pics yet.


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## geor

bogdymol said:


> I would say that you could. Few days ago city-streets in my town looked a lot worse than what's in those pics and I drove without any problems only with winter tyres (without chains... but I had them prepared in the trunk just in case).
> 
> edit: here it is, just with winter tyres:


i agree, it is not problem to drive on the streets in town. The difficulties occurred when the moving is on the slopes. For most trucks with trailers every slope higher than 3% is impassable, no matter of chains. As MW A6 has three slopes over 5% it is not recomended to let them drive on.


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## Puležan

geor said:


> Today once more a truck with trailer is overturned in Rijeka but no pics yet.


On this picture a windbreak can be seen (blue grid, we call it "burobran"), but it's only for direction to east (Rijeka > Zagreb), which was built during the 2000s. The northern carriageway was built in 1982. and don't have preparation for them. But, at this strong wind (orchanic bora: more than 33 m/s, 119 km/h) neither a windbreak can help.

For winds faster than 32 m/s (115 km/h) motorways are opened only for personal cars. When wind reaches speed of more than 36 m/s (130 km/h) motorway is closed for all traffic!

This picture was taken in october 2011, on A6 around Oštrovica, when bora wasn't that strong. The speed limit was only 40 km/h. You can also see a windbreak between the carriageways.









And here are some different types of windbreaks on A1 (section Sv.Rok-Maslenica):


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## x-type

Puležan;88458117 said:


> On this picture a windbreak can be seen (blue grid, we call it "burobran"), but it's only for direction to east (Rijeka > Zagreb), which was built during the 2000s. The northern carriageway was built in 1982. and don't have preparation for them.


this could also be a viaduct Hreljin, built in 1996 (one half) and 2008 (the second one). interesting is that on viaduct Hreljin the windbarriers are built on old half :?









edit: sorry, that's a new carriageway.


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## geor

Puležan;88458117 said:


> For winds faster than 32 m/s (115 km/h) motorways are opened only for personal cars. When wind reaches speed of more than 36 m/s (130 km/h) motorway is closed for all traffic!


You give us parameters for one position on A1. As you know, each our company has its own protocol; Krk, HC, ARZ, HAC. HAC has three different protocols; 1st for Maslenica, 2nd for viaduct Bozici, 3rd for Vucipolje. I think that you speak about V.Bozici.


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## geor

Puležan said:


> This picture was taken in october 2011, on A6 around Oštrovica, when bora wasn't that strong. The speed limit was only 40 km/h. You can also see a windbreak between the carriageways.


In windy condition this protocol will no more exist on A6 due to danger of lateral crashes. ARZ changed that at the beginning of this year.
How that will look like is showed below.


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## hofburg

bogdymol said:


> I would say that you could. Few days ago city-streets in my town looked a lot worse than what's in those pics and I drove without any problems only with winter tyres (without chains... but I had them prepared in the trunk just in case).
> 
> edit: here it is, just with winter tyres:


yh, I saw your video, also of Bucharest, it looks insane, but seems like your car is dealing fine with snow.


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## geor

Today Bura overturned foreign HGV at Makarska.

http://cro.time.mk/read/1b5127267d/b90a9278d1/index.html



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Unfortunately, foreign HGV drivers do not know what Bura is. This time, it is Serb’s HGV (Valjevo).


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## geor

My colleague sent me these pictures from A6 motorway web cam today. ARZ activated bear management plan in front of tunnel Tuhobic, near Rijeka.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## Luki_SL

^^Is he watching this web cam all the time?? He cought great picture


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## darko06

This article appears today in Triestin newspaper Il Piccolo:http://ilpiccolo.gelocal.it/cronaca/2012/03/15/news/da-fiume-a-ragusa-in-autostrada-si-aprono-i-cantieri-1.3290312 
I didn't translate it from Italian:
"FIUME. I lavori di costruzione dell’autostrada Fiume–Zuta Lokva cominceranno quest’anno. La notizia è ufficiale, diramata dal ministero della Marineria, che ha per titolare Zlatko Komadina, ex presidente della Contea del Quarnero e Gorski kotar e dunque assai «interessato all’affare». Proprio così perché la Fiume–Zuta Lokva, lunga 56 chilometri, è ritenuta un progetto di fondamentale importanza in quanto allaccerà il capoluogo quarnerino alla Dalmatina, l’autostrada Zagabria–Spalato–Vrgorac, località quest’ultima ad una manciata di chilometri da Ploce, il più importante porto della Dalmazia. In pratica la nuova autostrada – i cui termini di consegna non sono stati ancora fissati – permetterà a coloro che si inseriscono nella tangenziale fiumana di proseguire fino all’area meridionale della Dalmazia, evitando così di attraversare la Litoranea adriatica, statale piena di curve, stretta e con tempi di percorrenza parecchio lunghi. La Fiume–Zuta Lokva farà parte della futura autostrada adriatico–ionica, che sarà lunga 1500 chilometri e attraverserà Italia, Slovenia, Croazia, Bosnia ed Erzegovina, Montenegro, Albania e Grecia. La Croazia dunque sta facendo la sua parte e, nonostante la crisi, l’asse autostradale in direzione di Ragusa (Dubrovnik) viene realizzato a tappe. Non così l’impegno di Slovenia e Montenegro che finora, in questo ambito, non hanno fatto praticamente nulla. Tornando alla Fiume–Zuta Lokva, questa costerà circa 730 milioni di euro, 13 milioni di euro per chilometro. Un costo molto alto, dovuto alla caratteristiche del terreno, assolutamente ondulato e che vedrà viadotti e gallerie costituire un terzo dei 56 chilometri. Quest’anno si comincerà con il traforo Vratnik, lungo 3.500 metri, che unirà il Quarnero e la Lika. Comporterà l’esborso di 80 milioni e sarà il quarto tunnel più lungo in Croazia, dopo quelli di San Rocco, Mala Kapela e Monte Maggiore. Il progetto Vratnik ha già ottenuto la licenza edile, con i lavori che probabilmente saranno finanziati congiuntamente dalle imprese pubbliche Autostrade croate e Autostrada Fiume–Zagabria. Se Bruxelles dovesse conferire all’autostrada adriatico–ionica lo status di corridoio europeo, le autorità croate potrebbero anche contare su finanziamenti comunitari e pertanto il completamento della Fiume–Zuta Lokva conoscerebbe tempi più brevi."
Please comment.


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## x-type

it should be "motorway Rijeka - Žuta Lokva" or "autostrada Fiume - Pozzanghera Gialla".


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## italystf

darko06 said:


> This article appears today in Triestin newspaper Il Piccolo:http://ilpiccolo.gelocal.it/cronaca/2012/03/15/news/da-fiume-a-ragusa-in-autostrada-si-aprono-i-cantieri-1.3290312
> I didn't translate it from Italian:
> "FIUME. I lavori di costruzione dell'autostrada Fiume-Zuta Lokva cominceranno quest'anno. La notizia è ufficiale, diramata dal ministero della Marineria, che ha per titolare Zlatko Komadina, ex presidente della Contea del Quarnero e Gorski kotar e dunque assai «interessato all'affare». Proprio così perché la Fiume-Zuta Lokva, lunga 56 chilometri, è ritenuta un progetto di fondamentale importanza in quanto allaccerà il capoluogo quarnerino alla Dalmatina, l'autostrada Zagabria-Spalato-Vrgorac, località quest'ultima ad una manciata di chilometri da Ploce, il più importante porto della Dalmazia. In pratica la nuova autostrada - i cui termini di consegna non sono stati ancora fissati - permetterà a coloro che si inseriscono nella tangenziale fiumana di proseguire fino all'area meridionale della Dalmazia, evitando così di attraversare la Litoranea adriatica, statale piena di curve, stretta e con tempi di percorrenza parecchio lunghi. La Fiume-Zuta Lokva farà parte della futura autostrada adriatico-ionica, che sarà lunga 1500 chilometri e attraverserà Italia, Slovenia, Croazia, Bosnia ed Erzegovina, Montenegro, Albania e Grecia. La Croazia dunque sta facendo la sua parte e, nonostante la crisi, l'asse autostradale in direzione di Ragusa (Dubrovnik) viene realizzato a tappe. Non così l'impegno di Slovenia e Montenegro che finora, in questo ambito, non hanno fatto praticamente nulla. Tornando alla Fiume-Zuta Lokva, questa costerà circa 730 milioni di euro, 13 milioni di euro per chilometro. Un costo molto alto, dovuto alla caratteristiche del terreno, assolutamente ondulato e che vedrà viadotti e gallerie costituire un terzo dei 56 chilometri. Quest'anno si comincerà con il traforo Vratnik, lungo 3.500 metri, che unirà il Quarnero e la Lika. Comporterà l'esborso di 80 milioni e sarà il quarto tunnel più lungo in Croazia, dopo quelli di San Rocco, Mala Kapela e Monte Maggiore. Il progetto Vratnik ha già ottenuto la licenza edile, con i lavori che probabilmente saranno finanziati congiuntamente dalle imprese pubbliche Autostrade croate e Autostrada Fiume-Zagabria. Se Bruxelles dovesse conferire all'autostrada adriatico-ionica lo status di corridoio europeo, le autorità croate potrebbero anche contare su finanziamenti comunitari e pertanto il completamento della Fiume-Zuta Lokva conoscerebbe tempi più brevi."
> Please comment.


Pratically it says that works for A7 Rijeka - Zuta Lovka will start within this year. 56km, 730mil EUR, many tunnels and viaducts, longest tunnel 3,5km. It will be part of Adriatic - Jonian corridor.
Very good news, it's a vital link that was planned for many years.


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## toonczyk

Actually the price doesn't seem to be too high considering the difficulties on the way. In Poland lately the average prices are hovering around 8 million EUR per km, but you have to remember vast majority of our roads here go through flat land.

Speaking of news - how's the construction of A1 progressing?


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## italystf

toonczyk said:


> Actually the price doesn't seem to be too high considering the difficulties on the way. In Poland lately the average prices are hovering around 8 million EUR per km, but you have to remember vast majority of our roads here go through flat land.
> 
> Speaking of news - how's the construction of A1 progressing?


It's open till Vrgorac and will be completed till Ploce by 2013. The extension towards Dubrovnik won't be build anytime soon (even the route hadn't be decided yet). Is there a chance that Croatia will get more money for highways after joining EU?


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## toonczyk

^^ I meant to ask about Vrgorac - Ploče section specifically, it was supposed to be ready by the end of this year, but lately I've been hearing there is a possibility of earlier opening. But I guess your information about 2013 says it all 

As for funding - I actually have no clue how this works. Since Croatia is supposed to join EU before 2014-2020 budget kicks in, does that mean they are already negotiating their programs with the Commission? There is still a lot to be done in terms of infrastructure, so yes, a big portion of the money will be assigned to road network projects. But I don't know how's that going to work in Croatia's situation.


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## Puležan

toonczyk said:


> Can't wait for it!
> 
> I have a question though - this region is seismically active, there is a risk of earthquakes (I once experienced a minor quake when I was in Imotski, so I assume it happens every now and then). How are motorways (especially bridges and tunnels) in Croatia protected against earthquakes?


There's no problem with open sections of the road, since there's nothing which could collapse in case of a strong earthquake. On the other hand, tunnels and bridges (and viaducts) could be impacted, but they are strong enough to withstand it. There have been many earthquakes in the last 50 years, but no road object was ever damaged. There could only be a problem with earthquakes followed by landslides in the Zagorje region (especially on A2 motorway).


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## x-type

Puležan said:


> There could only be a problem with earthquakes followed by landslides in the Zagorje region (especially on A2 motorway).


i think that A4 is more liable to landslides than A2.


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## hofburg

nice update.


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## keber

toonczyk said:


> I have a question though - this region is seismically active, there is a risk of earthquakes (I once experienced a minor quake when I was in Imotski, so I assume it happens every now and then). How are motorways (especially bridges and tunnels) in Croatia protected against earthquakes?


Tunnels are already naturally more safe from earthquakes than viaducts.
As for viaducts they are sure pretty safe from ordinary earthquakes, but really strong earthquakes (that happen every 500 years - this however can mean already today) could be very damaged. 
I don't know the situation for Croatia, but the most complicated and largest viaducts in Slovenia are build with special dampers. This is also true for viaducts on Italian A23 in Valcanale. Why only the largest? It is to prevent irreparable damage even for strongest earthquakes possible as they are capital investments and their repair could take two or three years, smaller viaducts can be repaired or rebuilt in half a year or in one year.


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## Fugit

When this section of A1 will open?


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## Puležan

Fugit said:


> When this section of A1 will open?


Actually, the road on the pictures above is not A1 (motorway), but D425 expressway connecting the town and harbour Ploče to the motorway A1. All which is finished (parts you can drive on) is already opened for traffic, while there's another 6 km of the expressway and about 10 km of A1 to be done. 

You can see on a map: http://wikimapia.org/#lat=43.1452741&lon=17.4868011&z=12&l=0&m=o
blue dotted line: not-finished part of A1 (Vrgorac-Ploče)
green dotted line: u/c part of D425 from Ploče exit to the finished section of D425

Our prime minister said that these routes are the most important in road investment program, so it could be done somewhere in 2013...


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## Puležan

Works on the new exit (Anđeli) on B8 expressway (this section would not become A8 like the first part, because A8 will go from Učka tunnel to the north and new junction with A7)

location: http://wikimapia.org/#lat=45.3381122&lon=14.2871403&z=17&l=0&m=s


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## darko06

Nice work!:nuts:
To screw up about two hundred meters visible part for overpassing on this mostly unoverpassable road whom only overoptimists call "semiexpressway", and what for?hno: For a complete unnecessary interchange, which only purpose will be to overcongest even congested road with local traffic!:bash:
Really nice work indeed!:nuts:


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## darko06

Oh I forgot. Sure the village Anđeli is a hometown of some prominent member of new Croatian socialist government.:lol:


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## darko06

Why they didn't convert TRAFFIC LIGHTS on the "interchange" Opatija into a REAL interchange instead of? hno: :nuts: :bash: :lol:


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## italystf

darko06 said:


> Why they didn't convert TRAFFIC LIGHTS on the "interchange" Opatija into a REAL interchange instead of? hno: :nuts: :bash: :lol:


I think they will solve it when A8 will became a motorway. Does the traffic volume justify the 2nd tube of Ucka tunnel?


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## Puležan

darko06 said:


> Oh I forgot. Sure the village Anđeli is a hometown of some prominent member of new Croatian socialist government.:lol:





darko06 said:


> Why they didn't convert TRAFFIC LIGHTS on the "interchange" Opatija into a REAL interchange instead of? hno: :nuts: :bash: :lol:


Well, the decision to make that new exit was made during the previuos government (HDZ), so don't say such things if you don't know the exact story 

On the other hand, it's true that this part is very dangerous and traffic runs slowly, but there were many illegal "exits" because of the tough terrain and lack of other local roads. But that part won't become A8, but will stay as an ordinary grade-separated state road which will go from A8 to Rijeka...



italystf said:


> I think they will solve it when A8 will became a motorway. Does the traffic volume justify the 2nd tube of Ucka tunnel?


True, the future A8 will go to the north from this point, where a junction will be made to turn to that today's part of the road: http://wikimapia.org/#lat=45.3297028&lon=14.2616969&z=14&l=0&m=h

The AADT in Učka tunnel is 7670 vehicles, but during the summer it's 11 087 vehicles. In normal circumstances one tube would be enough, but that's a 5-km-long tunnel and must have 2 tubes according to the european regulations. An emergency tube doesn't make sense, because that's a motorway and the traffic volume will be increasing all the time, so it's better to build the normal second traffic tube


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## darko06

Puležan said:


> Well, the decision to make that new exit was made during the previuos government (HDZ), so don't say such things if you don't know the exact story


Okay, my only mistake was erratically identifying SDP instead of HDZ. Even you should know that Sanader ordered building of a complete unnecessary exit on the Dalmatina motorway.hno:
But no more sarcasms.
At the beginning I shall quote some axioms of traffic science.
1.) Local and transit traffic must be separated.
2.) Road which is called an expressway shall not have exits or interchanges regulated with traffic lights.
3.) Road must be safe for driving.
Ad. 1. Drivers who drive on this road, which is eastern connector to the Učka Tunnel, already pay the toll for it, included in Tunnel Učka toll. So they have absolutely right to be excluded from local traffic for this toll. Instead of that Bouygues prized local imbusters (who already imbusted a dozen or more wild exits) with legal, but completely unnecessary exit. What will happen? There will be even more local folks with their small cars, who will regularily have speed limit about 50-60 km/h. Does this have sense, I mean from the safety point of view?
Ad. 2. I have discussed the problem of traffic lights on the Opatija "exit" several times before on this thread. So I won't repeat myself. But, this secretly tolled connector common road with some expresswaymanner exits shall not be called even semiexpressway. And if Bouygues wanted to improve the trafic conditions on this road, they had to upgrade Opatija "exit" to the real expw exit at the first place.


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## Puležan

darko06 said:


> Okay, my only mistake was erratically identifying SDP instead of HDZ. Even you should know that Sanader ordered building of a complete unnecessary exit on the Dalmatina motorway.hno:


Well, that exit (Vučevica) would serve Kaštela, city with 38 500 inhabitants, when the expressway is built. Also, it would be very good alternative for Split too, because people would no more have to go to Dugopolje and via D1 if they want to go to western part of Split (a bridge from Kaštela to Split is planned too) 



> But no more sarcasms.
> At the beginning I shall quote some axioms of traffic science.
> 1.) Local and transit traffic must be separated.
> 2.) Road which is called an expressway shall not have exits or interchanges regulated with traffic lights.
> 3.) Road must be safe for driving.
> Ad. 1. Drivers who drive on this road, which is eastern connector to the Učka Tunnel, already pay the toll for it, included in Tunnel Učka toll. So they have absolutely right to be excluded from local traffic for this toll. Instead of that Bouygues prized local imbusters (who already imbusted a dozen or more wild exits) with legal, but completely unnecessary exit. What will happen? There will be even more local folks with their small cars, who will regularily have speed limit about 50-60 km/h. Does this have sense, I mean from the safety point of view?
> Ad. 2. I have discussed the problem of traffic lights on the Opatija "exit" several times before on this thread. So I won't repeat myself. But, this secretly tolled connector common road with some expresswaymanner exits shall not be called even semiexpressway. And if Bouygues wanted to improve the trafic conditions on this road, they had to upgrade Opatija "exit" to the real expw exit at the first place.


I totally agree with you. Motorways should be spared from many and densely located local exits, but you shouldn't treat that part of B8 as a motorway or a true expressway, because it was built as a normal highway (magistrala) back then in the 1980. Later they decided to include it into motorway system. 

In the end, Bouygues is just the contractor, while the concessionaire is the Bina Istra company, which follows the commands from croatian ministry of transport. So, Anđeli exit is being built because Croatia (and Primorsko-goranska county) wanted it. 

Opatija traffic light is nonsense, but there was a plan to upgrade the exit to the normal grade-separated exit, but now I can't find that photo  I don't know why it was never built; probably because spatial plans of local communities and a county weren't in compliance.
It was something like this:










*EDIT*: I found that plan:
http://www.matulji.hr/PPUO_2008/karte/karta-410.pdf


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## darko06

Fortunately, in the year 2018 Učka Tunnel shall have second tube for the safety reasons, to be compliant with European Regulative. So they will be forced to build not only missing northern tube but also a completely new motorway from A7 to eastern portal of the tunnel.
Till then, I will avoid B8.


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## Puležan

darko06 said:


> Fortunately, in the year 2018 Učka Tunnel shall have second tube for the safety reasons, to be compliant with European Regulative. So they will be forced to build not only missing northern tube but also a completely new motorway from A7 to eastern portal of the tunnel.
> Till then, I will avoid B8.


The deadline for the second tube is 2015  We'll see when will the new section (Učka-Jušići) be finished...
http://www.glasistre.hr/istra/vijest/351501


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## halloerstmal

hi.
i'am new in this forum, so sorry if I ask something
which was already asked several times.
Are there any new infos on closing the gap between Postnojna in slo and
rupa (slovenian/croatian boarder)?

thx.


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## keber

No news. Situation is as before, so nothing is to expect in next 5 years.


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## KHS

*(A7) Rijeka bypass update*












*Kuk viaduct*




misipile said:


>


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## x-type

if somebody is interested, i have made detailed photo report od 12 km long A13 section u/c Vrbovec - Farkaševac. you can find it here. it is too long to repost it again.


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## ChrisZwolle

I didn't know it was U/C. When did construction commence? And when will it open to traffic?


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## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> I didn't know it was U/C. When did construction commence? And when will it open to traffic?


you can already see one part u/c on google earth (here).

they have started last year building it. last time i was at working site in September 2011 and they have done much since then, although it goes slowly. speaking with guard at construction site - they probably work as much as they can get money for works.

unfortunately, only that sub-section from A12 to Farkaševac is u/c, rest to Bjelovar hasn't been touched yet.

they expect this sub-section to be done next year.


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## ChrisZwolle

Is Vrbovec bypass part of A12 or A13?


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## Puležan

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is Vrbovec bypass part of A12 or A13?


Vrbovec bypass is A12. It will go from Sv.Helena junction (A4) towards Križevci, Koprivnica and border crossing Gola. A13 will go from Vrbovec-II junction towards Bjelovar, Virovitica and border crossing Terezino Polje/Barcs 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/Kroatien_Autobahnen_(aktueller_Stand).svg


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## Verso

Croatia will build a 5.5-km expressway through BIH (Neum) instead of the Pelješac bridge.

http://www.jutarnji.hr/nista-od-tun...ovorio-izgradnju-brze-ceste-kroz-bih/1025809/


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## italystf

Verso said:


> Croatia will build a 5.5-km expressway through BIH (Neum) instead of the Pelje&#154;ac bridge.
> 
> http://www.jutarnji.hr/nista-od-tunela--hajdas-doncic-sa-bih-kolegom-hadzicem-dogovorio-izgradnju-brze-ceste-kroz-bih/1025809/


Will there be border checks or would be like the Osimo road near Gorizia?
And is the Peliesac bridge abandoned forever (works already started)?


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## režim

You can see Pelješac bridge construction.


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## niskogradnja

režim;91054522 said:


> You can see Pelješac bridge construction.


I did not see any construction and I watched three times...


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## keber

italystf said:


> Will there be border checks or would be like the Osimo road near Gorizia?


Something like that, with an additional exit with toll booth and bordercheckpoint for those who want to go to Neum. I would pressume, that a sensible solution to Neum "transit problem" is necessary for Croatia to join Schengen.




> And is the Peliesac bridge abandoned forever (works already started)?


I'm 99% sure of that, at least for short- and midterm. Bridge obliviously became white elephant and up to now not much of a construction happened so it wouldn't be a big deal (in financial terms) to completely abandon this project, which would probably be a financial disaster. However it is still a national pride thing.


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## ChrisZwolle

Good to see this agreement between BIH and HR. Hopefully the A1 motorway can now proceed quickly to Dubrovnik and Montenegro (and ultimately Greece).


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## darko06

Today newspapers (Jutarnji list) made an article about the feasibility study where public company Croatian Motorways (Javno poduzeće Hrvatske AutoCeste, JP HAC) claims that it has enough money to finish only parts of motorways where works are intensive or near completion:
-A1 Vrgorac-Ploče
-A5 Hungarian border-Osijek
-A5 Sredanci-Bosnian border
-A11 viaduct over the Zagreb service railway station
-A11 Jakuševac-Velika Gorica
-A11 Buševec-Lekenik
In same study they propose to abandon the works on following parts after 2016:
-A1 Doli-Dubrovnik
-A12 Vrbovec-Gradec (so called Podravski Y)
-A13 Vrbovec-Bjelovar (so called Podravski Y)


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## režim

niskogradnja said:


> I did not see any construction and I watched three times...


Not my problem.
Get some cells.


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## g.spinoza

del


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## keber

režim said:


> Not my problem.
> Get some cells.


Don't be so rude, there is no construction on video. And if you ask me there won't be any construction there for a long time if anytime.

First words of TV reporter are: 
"Gradilište Pelješačkog mosta - potpuno pusto". --> "Pelješac bridge construction site - completely deserted."


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## režim

I was just reacting , on his remark about my using of the word "construction".
Which i see you also notice.
And his attack on my persona.
First that he is highly knowledgeable about the subject. Which led me to conclusion that he is not arguing about the subject , but tries to get to the stars over the corpses i.e. me.
Second that he is living for approvals of others (shady ,unreliable person).
And last , that he is forever alone. Or in relationship with some Bosnian girl that has mustache , and don't wash. just like in that song.hno:


----------



## grofBombelles

Režim, don't embarrass our country round the forums


----------



## x-type

i have posted this photo of A6 near Rijeka in the Ancient Motorways' Photos and First Motorway In Your Country threads. and i never tried to search its exact location. today i did it.

so, in 1970es:









today:


----------



## hofburg

nice


----------



## režim

grofBombelles said:


> Režim, don't embarrass our country round the forums


Something like that is not even possible.This statement defies all logic.
If you know what i mean , and you surely don't.hno:
Or , which i think is more likely , you found your self in my previous post.
Big whats up , to all members of collective consciousness.
P.S.
Stop attacking me on forum , you are killing all the fun for me.
I know you won't  , hater , if you know what i mean , and you don't.


----------



## Rojsman

*A11*








































































[/quote]



































































































[/quote]

































































































































































































































































































Photos by Seabral www.zeljeznice.net


----------



## Verso

^^ Great photos, I drove there last week.


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> ^^ Great photos, I drove there last week.


what the heck you did there!? (or you just saw it from A3?)


----------



## Verso

I didn't go to Sisak, if you thought that; I went to the airport.


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> I didn't go to Sisak, if you thought that; I went to the airport.


oh yeah, i forgot that 2€ story :drool:


----------



## Verso

I went there twice, so 4 €.


----------



## keber

Nice pictures, but is this construction site active at all?
Doesn't look like so ...


----------



## Puležan

keber said:


> Nice pictures, but is this construction site active at all?
> Doesn't look like so ...


There were some finishing works on the connection (exit) Velika Gorica-sjever, but it's useless because it's only from direction ZG-VG and opposite, so you cannot enter there to go south towards Sisak. Works on the most important section from Zagreb to V.Gorica haven't been started yet due to the problems with land expropriationshno:


----------



## Nima-Farid

Can someone tell me where the final southern terminus of A11 be?


----------



## Puležan

Nima-Farid said:


> Can someone tell me where the final southern terminus of A11 be?


For the next few years it will end in Lekenik: http://wikimapia.org/#lat=45.5813675&lon=16.2079239&z=14&l=0&m=h

Here you can see the whole route u/c: http://preglednik.arkod.hr/ARKOD-We...,LPIS_422,LPIS_423,LPIS_424,LPIS_490,LPIS_900

But A11 is planned to go all the way to Sisak, but in current financial situation there's no money for that


----------



## Verso

Puležan said:


> http://preglednik.arkod.hr/ARKOD-We...,LPIS_422,LPIS_423,LPIS_424,LPIS_490,LPIS_900


How old is this "preglednik"? It's like Slovenian Geopedia. kay:


----------



## Nima-Farid

Puležan said:


> For the next few years it will end in Lekenik: http://wikimapia.org/#lat=45.5813675&lon=16.2079239&z=14&l=0&m=h
> 
> Here you can see the whole route u/c: http://preglednik.arkod.hr/ARKOD-We...,LPIS_422,LPIS_423,LPIS_424,LPIS_490,LPIS_900
> 
> But A11 is planned to go all the way to Sisak, but in current financial situation there's no money for that


Ok thanks! How about a connection to BiH? It can be useful.


----------



## Puležan

Verso said:


> How old is this "preglednik"? It's like Slovenian Geopedia. kay:


It was updated with new satellite imagery a week ago or so. Now you can see A1 Vrgorac-Ploče (u/c), A6, A8 and A9 in full profile, A11 u/c Buševec-Lekenik 

Thanks for geopedia link, I've been searching it for months, after seeing it on slovenian forum (but after that I couldn't find that post) :cheers:


----------



## Puležan

Nima-Farid said:


> Ok thanks! How about a connection to BiH? It can be useful.


You've seen my map (on Republika Srpska thread) showing a motorway link from Sisak to Banja Luka and Zenica, but that's only my wish. Continuation of A11 towards the border depends on BIH, because there are no bigger cities in Croatia between Sisak and the border, which means that the motorway wouldn't be justified (even this first part will have low aadt). 

On the other side, there are various plans on BIH side:
-Republika Srpska plans a motorway from Banja Luka to Prijedor and Novi Grad, which could connect to our A11 in the future, but there's no point of having 2 motorways between BL and Zagreb (the first one-via Okučani and HR A3-is finished)

-Federation of BIH plans an expressway Zenica-Jajce-Bihać-croatian border (in direction Plitvice lakes), but it won't be in A11 direction.

So, if A11 reaches the border one day in the future, it would be logical to go on this route: Sisak - Hrv.Kostajnica - Dvor - Bosanska Krupa - Bihać, because that's the most needed route, as there's certain bosnian minority in Sisak (originating from that part of BIH)


----------



## Nima-Farid

But there is this city named Prijedor which has an urban population of 52000 and an overall population of 112000 between Sisak and Banja Luka.


----------



## Nima-Farid

I mean this corridor


----------



## Puležan

Nima-Farid said:


> But there is this city named Prijedor which has an urban population of 52000 and an overall population of 112000 between Sisak and Banja Luka.





Nima-Farid said:


> I mean this corridor


I know what you mean, that's my map  But as I said before, there's no sense to build a motorway on croatian side if there would not be motorway on BIH side. The situation is very tricky, because of many factors: 
-there's an almost parallel route between Zagreb and Banja Luka (A3+E661), which will postpone the construction of such link
-there are no border migrations of local people in that area because Croatians don't live in RS/Prijedor (political reasons after the war - they live in Federation part of BIH, which is around Bosanska Krupa and Bihać)
-Federation BIH doesn't plan their expressway (Zenica-Bihać) to go towards north (Sisak), but to the west (Plitvice)


----------



## Nima-Farid

ok thanks. One more question. where will A1 end? is the planned Peljesac bridge part of A1?


----------



## Puležan

Nima-Farid said:


> ok thanks. One more question. where will A1 end? is the planned Peljesac bridge part of A1?


The plan is to go to Dubrovnik, but the route hasn't been chosen yet. There has been some pretty intense arguing last few weeks whether A1 should go through BIH (around Neum in some sort of closed corridor, because of the Schengen) or across Pelješac bridge (but now it's decided to stop building it). In any case, there wouldn't be any kind of motorway or expressway from Ploče to Dubrovnik in next 4-5 years (probably more) :dunno:

P.S. The Pelješac bridge was firstly intended to carry a single-carriageway expressway from Ploče to Dubrovnik, not A1. But this could change in the future...


----------



## Nima-Farid

oh ok I see. thanks.


----------



## Verso

The bridge would still be useful for Pelješac and Korčula.


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> The bridge would still be useful for Peljesac and Korcula.


Is there a plan to connect Korcula with a bridge? That strait is very narrow.


----------



## toonczyk

What for? The Orebić-Domince ferry is more than enough.


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> The bridge would still be useful for Pelješac and Korčula.


Is there a plan to connect Korcula with a bridge? That strait is very narrow.


----------



## Verso

Not that I'd know of.


----------



## Puležan

Verso said:


> The bridge would still be useful for Pelješac and Korčula.





italystf said:


> Is there a plan to connect Korcula with a bridge? That strait is very narrow.


Korčula (the whole island) has only 16000 inhabitants, so if you ask me, there's no need for a bridge, although there were some ideas to make it. Also its maintenance would be high (due to weather conditions, salt etc) and traffic would be low. To anticipate your next question (if you ask why does Krk have a bridge while having also just 17000 people), Krk got a bridge because of the industry (oil rafinery) and international airport (for Rijeka).

The Pelješac bridge, on the other hand, would be useful not only to the Pelješac itself, but also for the whole Dubrovačko-neretvanska county, because it would connect it to the rest of motherland without passing through BIH (which will become a problem when we enter the schengen system). But the past government didn't decide it to carry A1, but an expressway. We'll have to wait couple of years to see what will be decided when construction begins again


----------



## Verso

^^ What about the bridge to Pag with only 8,400 inhabitants?


----------



## toonczyk

Puležan said:


> Korčula (the whole island) has only 16000 inhabitants, so if you ask me, there's no need for a bridge, although there were some ideas to make it.


Do you have any more details? That would be a very interesting project from the technical perspective (not that I think it's a good idea - there is no need for a bridge there and it could ruin the beautiful landscape). Were there any more detailed plans or at least a proposed location, or was it just a loose idea?


----------



## Verso

Puležan said:


> It was updated with new satellite imagery a week ago or so.


Forgotten about this. Actually I meant, how old is that website?


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> ^^ What about the bridge to Pag with only 8,400 inhabitants?


That strait is few meters wide, not more than 1km like Krk or Korcula.


----------



## keber

^^ A bit more, about 200 m wide with pretty high cliffs and deep sea. But still much less than at least 1,2 km between Pelješac and Korčula.


----------



## Puležan

Verso said:


> ^^ What about the bridge to Pag with only 8,400 inhabitants?





italystf said:


> That strait is few meters wide, not more than 1km like Krk or Korcula.





keber said:


> ^^ A bit more, about 200 m wide with pretty high cliffs and deep sea. But still much less than at least 1,2 km between Pelješac and Korčula.


Well, at Pag there's the biggest saltern in ex-Yugoslavia, so it was more convenient to have road access to the island  The Pag bridge is 300 m long, and is arched bridge, so it wasn't so complicated to build it, like it would be to make Korčula bridge.


----------



## Puležan

toonczyk said:


> Do you have any more details? That would be a very interesting project from the technical perspective (not that I think it's a good idea - there is no need for a bridge there and it could ruin the beautiful landscape). Were there any more detailed plans or at least a proposed location, or was it just a loose idea?


It was planned back in the late 60s, but was never realised. Today it's put into spatial plans, so here you have some plans with either a bridge and a tunnel under the sea:
http://nakovana.com/2011/03/most-ili-tunel-peljesac-korcula/


----------



## Puležan

Verso said:


> Forgotten about this. Actually I meant, how old is that website?


Arkod? It's from 2009. It's the project carried out by the Ministry of agriculture, and its purpose is to identify cadastral plots by their users. You have multiple layers to see (ortophoto, topographic, boundaries of counties and cities, cadastre boundaries etc.)
http://www.arkod.hr/


----------



## toonczyk

Puležan;91399926 said:


> It was planned back in the late 60s, but was never realised. Today it's put into spatial plans, so here you have some plans with either a bridge and a tunnel under the sea:
> http://nakovana.com/2011/03/most-ili-tunel-peljesac-korcula/


Thanks. I guess it could be a big boost for local economy if there was a road connection with the mainland (especially for less touristic western part of the island). Still that seems like a huge investment - not only would you need a huge bridge or an undersea tunnel, but also accompanying road infrastructure for that (both on Pelješac and Korčula).


----------



## keber

Puležan;91400037 said:


> Arkod? It's from 2009. It's the project carried out by the Ministry of agriculture, and its purpose is to identify cadastral plots by their users. You have multiple layers to see (ortophoto, topographic, boundaries of counties and cities, cadastre boundaries etc.)
> http://www.arkod.hr/


This application was made by Slovenian company, which made GERK
a Slovenian version of above. Both applications were made to control usage of arable land for agricultural subsidies by EU.

As for Korčula bridge: interesting project, but I think it is not sensible to make very expensive fixed connection to every corner of the land.


----------



## KHS

*(A7) Rijeka bypass update*



zvonko said:


> Nasip i vijadukt Sv.trojica
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vijadukt Križišće



:cheers:


----------



## Bad_Hafen

aint this ugly
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9113/dsc00555t.jpg


----------



## Nima-Farid

i don't see anything wrong with that.


----------



## Puležan

Bad_Hafen said:


> aint this ugly
> http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9113/dsc00555t.jpg


Personally, I think this is better than usual concrete supporting walls, and in this area it wasn't possible to make normal earth embankment, because the slope is too big. Also, it's the place where the future junction of A7 and Rijeka bypass will be placed (A7 coming from north will exit the tunnel nearby, so the ground must be solid not to collapse). It will look better when the whole section is finished, because everything else will be green (when construction ends)


----------



## Festin

How is it going for the motorway Zagreb-Dubrovnik?


----------



## gorgoroth

Evo ga i asfalt





dvocjevka tunela Hreljin


----------



## gorgoroth

Unutrašnjost tunela Hreljin










svjetlo na kraju tunela


----------



## gorgoroth

Prostor između tunela Hreljin i viadukta Kuk













viadukt Kuk


----------



## gorgoroth

Na viaduktu Kuk








kraj viadukta






prema viaduktu Sv.Troici i mislim Križišću


----------



## gorgoroth

Prema krčkom mostu






viadukt Kuk



povratak južnim viaduktom Kuk


----------



## gorgoroth

Opet tunel Hreljin


----------



## gorgoroth

I na kraju čvor Hreljin


----------



## Puležan

^^Just for information, that's construction site of the eastern part of Rijeka bypass (A7)


----------



## KHS

*A7 - eastern part of Rijeka bypass U/C*

You can see that U/C section as blue-white line on this map

Also the most recent satelite image is here

:cheers:


----------



## Alpemare

Nice pictures! it would be great when Slovenia connects his motorway A1 (Postojna) to the croatian one (A7) , because then it would be possible to make a short trip to Rijeka or Krk in one day from Villach. 

And also the missing connection between Slovenia and Croatia at Istria is a serious problem. From Villach I'm at Koper in only 1:30 to 2:00 but then it is terrible to get to Croatia. 
There would be lots of possibilities to connect Slovenia and Croatia
- Postojna (A1) to Rijeka (A7) would be the best one for me
- Trieste (Italy) - Kozina - A7 Jelsane - would be also fine
.. but currently the A7 ends and then there are only old and ineffective streets

I'm waiting for the connection for years but it still hasn't changed anything..


----------



## x-type

Alpemare said:


> Nice pictures! it would be great when Slovenia connects his motorway A1 (Postojna) to the croatian one (A7) , because then it would be possible to make a short trip to Rijeka or Krk in one day from Villach.
> 
> And also the missing connection between Slovenia and Croatia at Istria is a serious problem. From Villach I'm at Koper in only 1:30 to 2:00 but then it is terrible to get to Croatia.
> There would be lots of possibilities to connect Slovenia and Croatia
> - Postojna (A1) to Rijeka (A7) would be the best one for me
> - Trieste (Italy) - Kozina - A7 Jelsane - would be also fine
> .. but currently the A7 ends and then there are only old and ineffective streets
> 
> I'm waiting for the connection for years but it still hasn't changed anything..


all these projescts are Slovenian issues, so you are offtopic here  but yes, you are right, it would be really nice to have those connections.


----------



## darko06

x-type said:


> all these projescts are Slovenian issues, so you are offtopic here  but yes, you are right, it would be really nice to have those connections.


And also a few more connections through Slovenia, per example:
1. Koper-Dragonja, to connect Trieste with Istrian Y
2. Srmin-Jelšane, to connect Trieste with Rijeka, through Divača
3. Novo Mesto-Črnomelj-Bosiljevo2, to connect Ljubljana and Tauernautobahn with Adriatic-Ionian Motorway
4. Ptuj-Gruškovje, to finally connect Zagreb with Graz (Phyrnautobahn)
Perhaps EU can manage something about financing these sections and keeping Slovenian building industry alive...


----------



## hofburg

dont worry, our building industry is already gone. 
you probably meant divaca - jelsane, or postojna - jelsane. Yes those sections are certainly needed.


----------



## keber




----------



## hofburg

nice vid from Lika  were you holding the camera?


----------



## keber

^^ Yes. Now Youtube has antishaking option, which processes shaky video and can make some strange artifacts (for example light poles could get curvy). But overall it is very useful option.


----------



## Satan Of Panonia

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1zXwOoeGzys

A1Vrgorac Crazy Stunt Volvo commercial


----------



## zagłębiak1

Satan Of Panonia said:


> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1zXwOoeGzys
> 
> A1Vrgorac Crazy Stunt Volvo commercial


Wow!

I watched this commercial in polisch news.


----------



## Satan Of Panonia

zagłębiak;94381575 said:


> Wow!
> 
> I watched this commercial in polisch news.


F Crazzzzzzzy


----------



## Kese

Holla!

I have got 2 questions for you guys. 

1: I have seen some impressive shots on the A5 Drava (the only croc infested river of Europe ) bridge at Osijek. Seems like they are well ahead with the job. But how is it going at the other end of A5? AFAIK the 3,5 kms to the Bosnian border are U/C, but what is the current status of the Sava bridge at Svilaj? 

2: What is going on at the Bosnian side, that is: at the northenmost end of Bosnian A1? There has to be something going on, otherwise there is no point in constructing the bridge. 

I sometimes drive from Pécs to Sarajevo/Mostar/Dubrovnik/etc., so I use this corridor.


----------



## italystf

Yesterday 500 boats connected each other by a rope did a spectacular parade between Peljesac peninsula with the mainland. They complained about the cancellation of the project of the famous bridge (the new government don't want to build it because it's too expensive and Bosnia don't like it).
http://ilpiccolo.gelocal.it/cronaca/2012/09/10/news/sabbioncello-ponte-di-barche-ultra-1.5675209









Works that already started are currently abandoned.









The construction of the bridge is expected to cost around 480 millions €.


----------



## Zanovijetalo

As for afore mentioned Pelješac bridge, yes, it has unexpectedly resurrected lately. 

Newest development from a few days ago is that the EU has granted 200.000 EUR for a feasibility study for the construction of this bridge which would bypass Bosnian territory and link Dubrovnik area with the rest of Croatia. So something is going on but nothing's for sure yet. Red: its approx location











:hi: to all Catholic brothers out there and even to some non Catholics


----------



## keber

Construction already started (and stopped too) and now they want to do a feasibility study?


----------



## Zanovijetalo

How I understand it, the study is now needed to bid for EU funds.

It looks the new bridge should be smaller (lower, narrower) than planned, but as we know decisions are not longlasting in this case.


----------



## KHS

*Rijeka road infrastructure*

Pećine tunnel



Ballota said:


>


Other side



Ballota said:


>


Sv. Kuzam



Ballota said:


>


Draga



Ballota said:


>


:cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Rijeka appears to have the most impressive urban infrastructure of all of Croatia.


----------



## hofburg

great pics! Thats one wide tunnel.


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> Rijeka appears to have the most impressive urban infrastructure of all of Croatia.


I'd say that's still Zagreb. It has a motorway bypass and almost an expressway-like road through the city (east-to-west). And yeah, that's a wide cavern!


----------



## x-type

but Rijeka's bypass is one of the most attractive roads in HR. driving beside the tops of the skyscrapers behind which is the sea is interrupted by driving on road with narrow noise barriers, which make you feel like in bob-sleigh


----------



## Verso

^^ I certainly agree.



Brod na Kupi via SLO


----------



## hofburg

they are building their own. 

https://maps.google.si/maps?q=Brod+...=vaSOOpobQbJ2t49_0sZ4ig&cbp=12,235.55,,0,1.74


----------



## Broccolli

ChrisZwolle said:


> Rijeka appears to have the most impressive urban infrastructure of all of Croatia.


I often drive there..yes it is great motorway, at moments it feels like roller coaster :lol:. But for me the most urban infrastructure and spectacular motorway (near my country Slovenia) is in Trieste where im also lately permanent guest:lol:


----------



## Verso

hofburg said:


> they are building their own.
> 
> https://maps.google.si/maps?q=Brod+...=vaSOOpobQbJ2t49_0sZ4ig&cbp=12,235.55,,0,1.74


Nice! How long will that be?


----------



## woutero

I love this exit: it indeed feels like a roller coaster:


----------



## hofburg

Rijeka - Senj will be expressway or motorway?


----------



## Puležan

hofburg said:


> Rijeka - Senj will be expressway or motorway?


There will be an expressway (extension of the existing one) from Rijeka to Krk bridge, and from Križišće to the south there will be a motorway (full motorway standard A7). On the map, the expressway is shown in dark blue, while the future A7 to Senj and Dalmatia is in light blue


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Puležan said:


> Križišće


Gesundheit


----------



## Puležan

ChrisZwolle said:


> Gesundheit


If you mean literally, then it's not that: http://translate.google.com/#de/hr/gesundheit

Križišće would mean "crossroads".
Anyhow, it's still hard to pronounce... 

----------------------------------
Anyway, *here* you can see couple of months old satellite imagery of the future Križišće junction, where the expressway will meet A7 motorway. 

On this picture, it's clear what kind of interchange it will be:
red - 1st phase - expressway (eastern part of Rijeka bypass)
pink - 2nd phase - A7 motorway towards south (which will be connected to Žuta Lokva junction on A1)
blue - 3rd phase - A7 towards north (connecting to the A6)



zvonko said:


> ...


So, the "A7" designation will be transferred from Rijeka bypass (existing expressway) to the new motorway Rijeka (Križišće)-Žuta Lokva, once it is built


----------



## cinxxx

Puležan said:


> If you mean literally, then it's not that: http://translate.google.com/#de/hr/gesundheit
> 
> Križišće would mean "crossroads".
> Anyhow, it's still hard to pronounce...


For me it's not hard to pronounce.
Heck I can even spell it in Romanian: Crijişce


----------



## darko06

Puležan, there are news in Croatian newspapers that in the next spring Bouygues is starting conversion of B8 into A8 from Rogovići exit to the Lupoglav (or Vranja) exit. Is it correct? Do you have more information about this?

Thx for posting the blueprint of future Križišće intersection. However, on that blueprint two ramps is missing: from the future Rijeka outer beltway (future A7) to the Krk bridge and vice versa. Therefore I submit blueprint with these ramps:


----------



## darko06

There is another problem, because the existing crossing between D8 and D102 is only semi-expresswaylike: D8 (upper level) has exit ramps but D102 (lower level) has regular crossing without signals.
Today, when transit traffic from Rijeka to Crikvenica is going on upper level (D8) this is adequate (route A on the blueprint), but after 1.7.2013., when transit traffic will be going on route B (from D8 to A7), there will be delays in direction Crikvenica.
Therefore I suggest the conversion of this interchange/crossing into the full interchange, similar on Sredanci interchange (A3/A5).


----------



## Puležan

darko06 said:


> Puležan, there are news in Croatian newspapers that in the next spring Bouygues is starting conversion of B8 into A8 from Rogovići exit to the Lupoglav (or Vranja) exit. Is it correct? Do you have more information about this?


It is correct. The construction will start in spring 2013. Projects are finished, and the sections will be opening to traffic one by one, so the first section Pazin (Rogovići)-Cerovlje (~10km) is planned to be open in the end of 2013. Section Cerovlje-tunnel Učka (~20km) in 2014, and the new tube of Učka tunnel (~5660m) in 2015.

The new carriageway is being built on the northern side from the existing one, except on the section Ivoli exit-Borut viaduct, because of the stream which can have really high waters during the winter, so there have to be enough space between it and the road.

There will be 2 new rest areas:
1) Lovrinčići, near Cerovlje, with gas station and caffe bar
2) Učka, on the eastern end of the tunnel, with gas station, caffe bar...

Vranja exit will be "moved" slightly to the west and the existing gas station in front of the tunnel entrance will be demolished, so nothing will be there anymore (safety reasons).

There's a plan to build one new exit for Borut, but that's just the option for some time in the future.

When construction of the new carriageway is finished, they will add emergency lane on the existing one. The speed limit will be 110 km/h.

The route from Učka to A7 is still unknown, but in the first phase the existing curvy route to Matulji will be used.

There's also new Anđeli exit and reconstructed Veprinac exit (merging lanes were added), both finished this summer.:cheers:

http://puo.mzopu.hr/default.aspx?id=5294



> Thx for posting the blueprint of future Križišće intersection. However, on that blueprint two ramps is missing: from the future Rijeka outer beltway (future A7) to the Krk bridge and vice versa. Therefore I submit blueprint with these ramps:
> http://imageshack.us/a/img62/880/kk1zcomplete.jpg


That's true, but the terrain is very difficult and A7 coming from south is in tunnel, so there is not much space for everything 



darko06 said:


> There is another problem, because the existing crossing between D8 and D102 is only semi-expresswaylike: D8 (upper level) has exit ramps but D102 (lower level) has regular crossing without signals.
> Today, when transit traffic from Rijeka to Crikvenica is going on upper level (D8) this is adequate (route A on the blueprint), but after 1.7.2013., when transit traffic will be going on route B (from D8 to A7), there will be delays in direction Crikvenica.
> Therefore I suggest the conversion of this interchange/crossing into the full interchange, similar on Sredanci interchange (A3/A5).
> http://imageshack.us/a/img547/1972/crossingd8d102reconst.jpg


You can see on the map that couple of new roads and directions are planned there, and we still don't know what the expressway end will look like, but it is sure that in the future plans that "semi-interchange" won't be on the route, so it won't be a problem


----------



## darko06

Thanks.


----------



## KHS

*Rijeka bypass update*



misipile said:


> Pogled prema Taboru:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prema Hreljinu:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sa razdjelnog pojasa, prema Taboru (zapad):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...i istok - nadam se da ce tu (s obzirom da je obilaznica) staviti rasvjetu, skroz do kraja (Smrike):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dokaz da se i u 18h u petak jos radi :cheers:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tu je kraj asfalta na zapadu, usjek pred Tabor:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sv. Kuzam i Tabor u daljini:


:cheers:


----------



## LAMPAŠ8

*A5*



LAMPAŠ8;96531035 said:


>





LAMPAŠ8;96531089 said:


>





LAMPAŠ8;96531118 said:


> to je to


----------



## Verso

Nice, but can Croatia really afford all these empty motorways? There aren't really great times for this.


----------



## hofburg

doesn't the construction boost up the economy? maybe motorways don't need to be maintained so often later, if they are empty


----------



## cinxxx

What road would you suggest to travel from near Rijeka towards Pula?
1. http://goo.gl/maps/Z8d2O --> E751, from the color I'm guessing motorway/expressway
2. http://goo.gl/maps/y5DP9 --> road 66

Time difference is not so big.
I'm guessing choice 1 is more comfortable, but tolled, while choice 2 more scenic and free 

The same question I'm having from Pula to Rovinj
http://goo.gl/maps/AO9wB or http://goo.gl/maps/dESIy


----------



## italystf

cinxxx said:


> What road would you suggest to travel from near Rijeka towards Pula?
> 1. http://goo.gl/maps/Z8d2O --> E751, from the color I'm guessing motorway/expressway
> 2. http://goo.gl/maps/y5DP9 --> road 66
> 
> Time difference is not so big.
> I'm guessing choice 1 is more comfortable, but tolled, while choice 2 more scenic and free
> 
> The same question I'm having from Pula to Rovinj
> http://goo.gl/maps/AO9wB or http://goo.gl/maps/dESIy


Much better the motorway/expressway, the state road is very slow.


----------



## cinxxx

^^Google says 15 minutes slower only. I'm not really on the clock, it's a vacation road trip. I'm wondering if it's worth to drive along the coast, maybe stop a few times, take some pictures, considering that I will see the sea also from Pula, or if the motorway/expressway has it's scenic views. 

Btw, what would be the costs on this stretches?
http://goo.gl/maps/b0BqA


----------



## italystf

cinxxx said:


> ^^Google says 15 minutes slower only. I'm not really on the clock, it's a vacation road trip. I'm wondering if it's worth to drive along the coast, maybe stop a few times, take some pictures, considering that I will see the sea also from Pula, or if the motorway/expressway has it's scenic views.
> 
> Btw, what would be the costs on this stretches?
> http://goo.gl/maps/b0BqA


The coastal road is very scenic and crosses many pictoresque villages. You cannot see the sea from the Y instead, however it offers some nice mountain views.


----------



## Puležan

Travel time on the motorway (A8+A9) is much shorter than that of the coastal road (D66). It's about 45 min - 1h if you're going on the motorway (speed limit 110 km/h, with possibility to drive up to 130 and not to get fined), and about 1:45 h on the coastal road (speed limit 80, 70, 60 and 40 through urban area of Lovran and Opatija). But if you want to enjoy the view, than you should definitely take the D66. It was rebuilt and repaved in the last few years in the whole length from Barban to Rijeka, so it's very nice to drive and the sea view (including the islands) in the northern part is amazing. You must take a break in Plomin, at this point, it's a restaurant/caffe bar with the terrace above the cliff :cheers: Also, you'll see many old austrian villas and luxury hotels in Lovran and Opatija.

Considering the route Pula-Rovinj, the only reasonable way is Pula-Vodnjan-Bale-Rovinj: https://maps.google.de/maps?saddr=P...hlxNY798RzFTrpjFYZ_G_w&oq=rov&t=h&mra=ls&z=11
It's about 30 min, road from Pula to Bale is ok (state road D21), from Bale to Rovinj is a little bit narrow and curvy (so don't overtake if you don't know the road), but apart from that it's ok 

Considering the route across the whole Istria, these are the tolls:
Umag-Pula (A9) - 37 kn (4,92 €)
Kanfanar-tunnel Učka (A8) - 36 kn (4,79 €)
Pula-tunnel Učka (A9+A8) - 48 kn (6,38 €)

Enjoy:cheers:


----------



## italystf

Does the Y have some 130 sections?


----------



## cinxxx

^^Thanks Puležan.
I guess it depends also on the weather, and time we arrive at the border SLO/HR.
I would do both roads but there is no time for that .

One more thing, what about taking picture with the country sign at the border, since, HR is not in Schengen?
I would possibly get a chance in these 2 places: http://goo.gl/maps/LNhJW or http://goo.gl/maps/0bqLC


----------



## KHS

^^ I've never been in that area but when you look at the Streetview you can see that there is a parking right after the border and next to the country sign.

:cheers:


----------



## cinxxx

KHS said:


> ^^ I've never been in that area but when you look at the Streetview you can see that there is a parking right after the border and next to the country sign.
> 
> :cheers:


Yes, that was my thought too 
Thanks to Streetview, at least in Croatia and Italy, if not in SLO.
I just don't want some angry policeman running after me because no pictures are allowed :lol:



Puležan;96855215 said:


> [...]You must take a break in Plomin, at this point, it's a restaurant/caffe bar with the terrace above the cliff :cheers: Also, you'll see many old austrian villas and luxury hotels in Lovran and Opatija.


I see on Streetview that left turning is forbidden, how do you get into the parking?
Also when leaving the parking there is left turning forbidden 

EDIT: I'm guessing something like this: http://goo.gl/maps/jvlUq

I see there is another road that lead to an old church or monastery and then to a ferry connection to the island, could be nice view from there too?
http://goo.gl/maps/9o80A


----------



## Puležan

italystf said:


> Does the Y have some 130 sections?


No  But you can drive 10% above the speed limit, so in 110 km/h sections you can safely go 121 km/h, but also with 130 there won't be any police patrol stopping you.
Here's the list of croatian motorway "cobras", so if you see a silver mercedes C-class (license plates PU-645-FZ) in the mirror, just slow down 
http://www.sisak.info/forum/showthread.php?7027-Popis-SVIH-presretača-na-prebrze-vozače-u-Hrvatskoj



cinxxx said:


> I see on Streetview that left turning is forbidden, how do you get into the parking?
> Also when leaving the parking there is left turning forbidden
> 
> EDIT: I'm guessing something like this: http://goo.gl/maps/jvlUq
> 
> I see there is another road that lead to an old church or monastery and then to a ferry connection to the island, could be nice view from there too?
> http://goo.gl/maps/9o80A


I didn't think about left turning. But if you really want to see that, you can go further straight (cca 2,5 km), and then turn in the town of Plomin, *here*. But there's another problem - when leaving that rest area, you again can't go left, but back towards Rijeka. So you should do a couple of maneuvers (and spend a little bit more fuel) to do so:nuts:

About Brestova ferry port, you won't see anything more spectacular then views from the main road (D66)...


----------



## KHS

*A5*



Kanalnik said:


> Glas Slavonije


:cheers:


----------



## KHS




----------



## KHS

*Rijeka bypass update*



zvonko said:


> Zaobilaznica kod Krasice:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Praputnjak:


:cheers:


----------



## KHS

*Rijeka bypass update*



zvonko said:


> Hreljin - montira se ograda i rasvjeta:


:cheers:


----------



## KHS

*Rijeka bypass update*



zvonko said:


> Kuk - rasveta, bukobrani, trava:


:cheers:


----------



## KHS

*Rijeka bypass update*



zvonko said:


> Križišće:


:cheers:


----------



## mapman:cz

From International border crossings:



x-type said:


> mapman:cz said:
> 
> 
> 
> To stay on Pelješasc topic. In Croatian subforum a floating bridge proposal has been posted recently as a contra-proposal of some architects, any further details to that?
> 
> 
> 
> BIH will never agree with it because they hope to have MSC Splendida one day in that shallow bay.
Click to expand...

As I've guessed from the pics, this should not be such a problem, but I am not familiar with any technicalities, just seen those pictures


----------



## stickedy

Such a construction makes absolutely no sense. I doubt that is something official or even serious...


----------



## @ripperius

This is not bridge. It's joke!


----------



## Bad_Hafen

it looks cool to me


----------



## Zanovijetalo

It is an unofficial idea by a group of architects.

Btw the presentation of the project is today, 18.00h if anyone's interested:

http://www.d-a-z.hr/hr/vijesti/prezentacija-projekta-plutajuci-most-peljesac,1724.html


----------



## stickedy

Perhaps someone should explain them that the sea level changes permanently and that there are even waves on the water. Let alone wind and storm...


----------



## toonczyk

stickedy said:


> Perhaps someone should explain them that the sea level changes permanently and that there are even waves on the water. Let alone wind and storm...


Behold: a floating bridge that defies science known to us, non-Norwegians.


----------



## cinxxx

Rupa - A7 - road 66 (Lovran, Mošćenička Draga - Panorama Hotel Flanona - Pula --> http://goo.gl/maps/PwkTY



cinxxx said:


> SLO/Jelšane -HR/Rupa by cinxxx, on Flickr
> 
> 
> SLO/Jelšane -HR/Rupa by cinxxx, on Flickr
> 
> 
> SLO/Jelšane -HR/Rupa by cinxxx, on Flickr





cinxxx said:


> HR_A7 by cinxxx, on Flickr
> 
> 
> HR_A7 by cinxxx, on Flickr
> 
> 
> HR_A7 by cinxxx, on Flickr





cinxxx said:


> HR_A7 by cinxxx, on Flickr
> 
> 
> HR_A7 by cinxxx, on Flickr
> 
> 
> HR_A7 by cinxxx, on Flickr





cinxxx said:


> HR_A7 by cinxxx, on Flickr
> 
> 
> HR_A7 by cinxxx, on Flickr
> 
> 
> HR_A7 by cinxxx, on Flickr


----------



## cinxxx

Bonus:


HR_66 - Hotel Flanona by cinxxx, on Flickr


HR_66 - Hotel Flanona by cinxxx, on Flickr

-----


HR_66 by cinxxx, on Flickr


HR_66 by cinxxx, on Flickr


HR_66 by cinxxx, on Flickr


HR_66 by cinxxx, on Flickr


HR_66 by cinxxx, on Flickr


HR_66 by cinxxx, on Flickr


HR_66 by cinxxx, on Flickr


----------



## cinxxx

HR_66 by cinxxx, on Flickr


HR_66 by cinxxx, on Flickr


HR_66 by cinxxx, on Flickr


HR_66 by cinxxx, on Flickr


HR_66 by cinxxx, on Flickr


HR_66 by cinxxx, on Flickr


HR_66 by cinxxx, on Flickr


HR_66 by cinxxx, on Flickr


HR_66/HR_401 by cinxxx, on Flickr


HR_66/HR_401 by cinxxx, on Flickr


HR_66/HR_401 by cinxxx, on Flickr


HR_66/HR_401 by cinxxx, on Flickr


----------



## hofburg

nice pics. i see you had a good weather on the coast.


----------



## cinxxx

^^ great weather, 20C, I was in T-Shirt all day until it got dark.
And what big difference, one day before, in Austria, 0C and snow .


----------



## hofburg

that's why I love mediteranean climate.


----------



## x-type

some photos refuse to show 
but it's a very nice report, quite rarely photographed roads - A7 and D66 
how about going back to direction SLO? i guess you took A9/A8 from Pula to direction Buzet, right?


----------



## cinxxx

x-type said:


> some photos refuse to show
> but it's a very nice report, quite rarely photographed roads - A7 and D66
> how about going back to direction SLO? i guess you took A9/A8 from Pula to direction Buzet, right?


you can find all the photos here http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157632012740902/with/8189619562/

Back to SLO was A9 all the way, like this http://goo.gl/maps/3mfeB
I will post from that too


----------



## danielstan

off-topic deleted.


----------



## italystf

danielstan said:


> Please tolerate a brief off-topic:
> 
> Heard Sanader was sentenced to 10 years jail for corruption. Short answers, please:
> 1) Is the sentence definitive / could it be appealed to a higher court?
> 2) Will he execute the entire sentence or will get some reductions due to age, illness, good behavior in prison or other reasons?


Move to the Roadside rest area.


----------



## Verso

> Die fünfteilige Dokumentationsreihe begibt sich auf eine Reise über die gefährlichsten Straßenabschnitte der Welt.


:lol:


----------



## darko06

I agree. Roads Novi Vinodolski-Senj and Senj-Vratnik are definitively ones of most dangerous roads in the world.
Even the Scenic Highway 1 in CA, USA is wider and safer. Drove there a few years ago.


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> :lol:


yeah








everything has started 2 years ago when some American portal has included D8 among 10 most dangerous roads of the world








competition was made mostly of those Latinamerican and Himalayan roads of death. :nuts:


----------



## x-type

darko06 said:


> I agree. Roads Novi Vinodolski-Senj and Senj-Vratnik are definitively ones of most dangerous roads in the world.
> Even the Scenic Highway 1 in CA, USA is wider and safer. Drove there a few years ago.


i can immidiately write 10 more dangerous roads in Croatia than D8. people, please think what you are writing.


----------



## KHS

darko06 said:


> I agree. Roads Novi Vinodolski-Senj and Senj-Vratnik are definitively ones of most dangerous roads in the world.
> Even the Scenic Highway 1 in CA, USA is wider and safer. Drove there a few years ago.


icard:


----------



## stickedy

Yeah, I agree. The D8 is not really dangerous, it's just very annoying to drive from Rijeka southwards towards Zadar because of the many curves.

In my opinion the street from Vrgorac to Ploce - the direct street through Staševica, not the D513 - is much more dangerous for example.


----------



## stickedy

Jack_Frost said:


> ^^well, i guess eu money could be a good solution for this problem.


Yeah, most likely, but it will take some time to get money (look for example at Romania how long it took to get money for roads after joining EU). And afaik the Transeuropean Corridors will be preferred first. So building A7 could last some time...


----------



## JackFrost

^^c'mon. youre nearly done with all of your network.  what do you want to build more apart from A1 and A7 (and maybe the totally unneeded A5)?


----------



## keber

x-type said:


> that road is always empty. i'd say that in the summer the number of vehicles from Žuta Lokva to Senj doesn't exceed 3-4000.


When I drove that road it looked empty only until first ascent. Then I needed quite some time because overtaking of slow vehicles is practically impossible - and that was outside tourist season. There are quite some trucks there that try to save some fuel and toll on Rijeka-Split route.


----------



## stickedy

Jack_Frost said:


> ^^c'mon. youre nearly done with all of your network.  what do you want to build more apart from A1 and A7 (and maybe the totally unneeded A5)?


Connecting Dubrovnik and further to Montenegro + the solution of the Neum "problem" will have higher priority for EU funds. That's a TEN-Corridor. 

And A5 is also high priority: Pan-European Corridor Vc


----------



## Verso

stickedy said:


> Connecting Dubrovnik and further to Montenegro + the solution of the Neum "problem" will have higher priority for EU funds. That's a TEN-Corridor.


It isn't.

http://ec.europa.eu/ten/transport/maps/doc/axes/pp00.pdf


----------



## keber

^^ old map.
Some corridors are changing.


----------



## Verso

So can you show me a map or another proof that the Adriatic-Ionian motorway is a TEN-T corridor?


----------



## keber

No, because new corridors are not defined yet. But there will be changes to above map quite soon.


----------



## i15

I drove from Crikvenica to Senj by bus and it didn't look very dangerous. It was just very boring. Passenger cars could hadrly overtake us, but traffic was very low and bus driver stopped several times to let them pass


----------



## x-type

i15 said:


> I drove from Crikvenica to Senj by bus and it didn't look very dangerous. It was just very boring. Passenger cars could hadrly overtake us, but traffic was very low and bus driver stopped several times to let them pass


from bus it might look boring. but driving a car there brings much fun really. ok, the party begins south of Senj (although some parts of Novi Vinodolski - Senj already are interesting). but D8 definitely is pleasure to drive (especially out of tourist season)


----------



## hofburg

it's a scenic road, but it's not exciting if you get stuck in 50 km/h queue.


----------



## stickedy

Verso said:


> So can you show me a map or another proof that the Adriatic-Ionian motorway is a TEN-T corridor?


OK, I was wrong the TEN corridors are not yet defined, but that will most likely happen as soon as Croatia joins EU.

The connection is part of the core road network since 2004: http://ec.europa.eu/ten/infrastructure/doc/2004_06_11_memorandum_annexe_1_b.pdf

And it's also a proposal for the further development: http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes/infrastructure/doc/com(2011)_650_final_2_annex_iii_part07.pdf


----------



## hofburg

with A7 connecting Rijeka and Zuta lokva, I think slovenian connection 3rd axis Novo mesto - Bosiljevo becomes irrelevant. for traffic coming from Villach, Ljubljana - Postojna -Rijeka - Zuta lokva is better option, and traffic from Graz goes via Zagreb anyway.

that's one point more for Postojna variant over Divaca, it is useful for Trieste and Villach.


----------



## Broccolli

Postojna rules:cheers:


----------



## gorgoroth

Čvor Hreljin








prema Rijeci





priključak iz Zagreba za Rijeku





za Zagreb





Nadvožnjak na čvoru Hreljin


----------



## gorgoroth

Snadvožnjaka na čvoru Hreljin





tunel Hreljin








nadvožnjak,čvor Hreljin





dalje prema Rijeci


----------



## gorgoroth

S zavoj





na Meji








ispod Praputnjaka asfalt završava








teška mašinerija odmara


----------



## gorgoroth

Buši se usjek ispod Praputnjaka











pogled na skoro dovršen dio




ovdje još ima za prokopati


----------



## gorgoroth

^^:cheers:

Još smo na tom velikom neprobijenom usjeku





mislim da ovim bagerima hrane kamione,koji nose materijal na buduću radnu zonu Bodulovo u Rijeci





koliki je to usjek





sloj po sloj se skida




ovje je već sve izglodano,pogled prema zapadu





i pogled prema istoku


----------



## gorgoroth

opet smo na asfaltu,negdje između Praputnjaka i Krasice





još jedan s zavoj





nadvožnjak ili nadhodnik









ravnica ispod Krasice


----------



## gorgoroth

Koliko kipera 






još malo ravnice





malo manji usjek pred viadukt Tabor


----------



## gorgoroth

Odvaljeno brdo pred Taborom





evo i Tabora















nazad prema Hreljinu


----------



## gorgoroth

Još smo na viaduktu Tabor











prema Krasici


----------



## gorgoroth

Opet smo na ravnici ispod Krasice














stavljena je zaštitna mreža


----------



## gorgoroth

Još smo na asfaltiarnom dijelu


----------



## gorgoroth

Prebacili smo se kod strojeva ispod Praputnjaka








penjemo se na asfaltirani dio











dalje nema,barikade,okret i na drugu traku


----------



## gorgoroth

Sada smo na pravom traku za Hreljin


----------



## gorgoroth

Tunel Burlica





između Burice i viadukta Kuk











viadukt Kuk


----------



## gorgoroth

Viadukt Kuk




kraj viadukta





prema Burlici





Radovi prema Križišću


----------



## gorgoroth

Viadukt Kuk





















tunel Burlica





ispred čvora Hreljin


----------



## gorgoroth

Već standardni visinski pogled na viadukt Kuk


----------



## gorgoroth

Križišće


----------



## gorgoroth

I zadnji set slika,nadam se da nije bilo previše :lol:


----------



## shqipo

when is planned to have a finished full motorway road from Split and Dobrovnik? the final solution is to built the bridge or to pass through Bosnja? tnx


----------



## Verso

i15 said:


> my passport expired in 2009 and I didn't need to get the new one, long live the EU


Košice-Ukraine 100 km :troll:


----------



## Eulanthe

Thank you for the information about stamps - as far as I can gather, it shouldn't be a problem to get them on request 

Now, I have one last request - and I wonder if someone could help me? 

I'd like to visit Zeljava Air Base, but I've been told that you need to get permission from the border guards at the Licko Petrovo border crossing first. I tried calling them, but they didn't have any English speakers available. Would someone from here be kind enough to call them and ask as to the current situation with regards to visiting Zeljava? I still don't know if I'm supposed to go to them and ask permission on the day, or whether I should apply in advance, or what. 

To make it clear, I only want to visit the runways within Croatian territory. 

http://www.carina.hr/Lokacije/LokacijeDetaljno.aspx?args=zsjok9hTTes=

There are contact details here - Tel. 053/655-340

Thank you ever so much for any help!


----------



## x-type

they are sometimes obviously very bored because even I have got few HR stamps 


























@Eulanthe, I could search a bit about security issues while visiting Željava so I hope I will find some useful info.


----------



## hofburg

looks like Bistrica ob Sotli is your favourite border crossing  and you occasionally fly from Brnik


----------



## Verso

Probably once in his life.


----------



## Eulanthe

x-type said:


> @Eulanthe, I could search a bit about security issues while visiting Željava so I hope I will find some useful info.


Many thanks 

I've found a lot of references to "tell the border guards" and "hide from the border guards", but very little in the way of real information about the place. I know on the BiH side, there's a guard hut close to the border where you can inform them about your plans, but I don't think there's anything comparable on the Croatian side.

(and no, I'm not going inside the mountain!)


----------



## Moravian

x-type said:


> they are sometimes obviously very bored because even I have got few HR stamps
> 
> @Eulanthe, I could search a bit about security issues while visiting Željava so I hope I will find some useful info.


Well done. Slovenians have been guarding the exterial Schengen-frontier....The Schengen-entering of Croatia will turn the situation back before June 1991.:cheers:

Sometimes the stamps quality is poor due to lack of the ink. Unfortunatelly the Hungarian stamps are partially "hidden". To receive the Austrian check-out-stamp in Neunagelberg after the Czech Republic entered EU (=internal EU-border), it was unusual..... I got last stamp at internal EU-border crossing in 2004. It is also similar on condition of EU-citizen-passport holder in U.K.


----------



## KHS

*(A7) Rijeka bypass update*

27.03.2013.


misipile said:


>


06.04.2013.


misipile said:


>


14.04.2013.


misipile said:


>


:cheers:


----------



## hofburg

where is this tight turn?


----------



## x-type

hofburg said:


> looks like Bistrica ob Sotli is your favourite border crossing  and you occasionally fly from Brnik


yeah, while going to the best spa in the world  (Orhidelia)


Verso said:


> Probably once in his life.


true :lol:


----------



## x-type

Moravian said:


> Sometimes the stamps quality is poor due to lack of the ink. Unfortunatelly the Hungarian stamps are partially "hidden". To receive the Austrian check-out-stamp in Neunagelberg after the Czech Republic entered EU (=internal EU-border), it was unusual..... I got last stamp at internal EU-border crossing in 2004. It is also similar on condition of EU-citizen-passport holder in U.K.


H stamps have poor quality. A and SI are more or less always visible.
wanna see the poor quality? notice on my first photo in that post there is also Italian stamp from port of Ancona. cannot see it? it is between 3 Slovenian stamps, perpendicular with them. 
or even better - entering Italy in Ancona - second photo, just under Croatian stamp you will note some red stains - that's Italian stamp (they have obviously ran out of ink).

about Neunagelberg - Austrian officers were also quite bored so they were checking us.


hofburg said:


> where is this tight turn?


here:
https://maps.google.hr/maps?q=Križi...ar=Križišće,+Primorsko-goranska+županija&z=16


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## keber

A7 end of June opening - yes or no?


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## Verso

x-type said:


> wanna see the poor quality? notice on my first photo in that post there is also Italian stamp from port of Ancona. cannot see it? it is between 3 Slovenian stamps, perpendicular with them.
> or even better - entering Italy in Ancona - second photo, just under Croatian stamp you will note some red stains - that's Italian stamp (they have obviously ran out of ink).


My Turkish entry stamp is even worse. At exit a police officer couldn't find it, so I had to tell her the page of the passport (I actually prepared my passport on that page, but she thought it was a random page). She laughed when she finally saw it. 

Oh, and my Turkish stamp from 1999 was 2 days behind real date.


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## Moravian

Moravian said:


> Well done. Slovenians have been guarding the exterial Schengen-frontier....The Schengen-entering of Croatia will turn the situation back before June 1991.:cheers:
> 
> Maybe back to motorway issue and Hrvatska. Some videos from the Czech Republic available on Youtube showing to route to Croation. At least - the next summer season - is not so far away....some of them might be the valuable travel promotion for coming summer....
> 
> 2010:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR4yXwRWa3Q
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UxA_kfDu28
> 
> 2011:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bAYlDEKrt4
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0MHcv26R3E
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUfCc6rM-0w
> 
> 2012:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y94hrn8HPA
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hew51IEcSCY
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhHHDtpgxNs


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## hofburg

nice videos! summer souvenirs 

2012 3rd video, why would anyone go from Bratislava to Zagreb via Budapest



x-type said:


> here:
> https://maps.google.hr/maps?q=Križi...ar=Križišće,+Primorsko-goranska+županija&z=16


oh, I see now, this will be exit for Krk, not the main route.


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## phiberoptik

----


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## phiberoptik

Eulanthe said:


> Thank you for the information about stamps - as far as I can gather, it shouldn't be a problem to get them on request
> 
> Now, I have one last request - and I wonder if someone could help me?
> 
> I'd like to visit Zeljava Air Base, but I've been told that you need to get permission from the border guards at the Licko Petrovo border crossing first. I tried calling them, but they didn't have any English speakers available. Would someone from here be kind enough to call them and ask as to the current situation with regards to visiting Zeljava? I still don't know if I'm supposed to go to them and ask permission on the day, or whether I should apply in advance, or what.
> 
> To make it clear, I only want to visit the runways within Croatian territory.
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> http://www.carina.hr/Lokacije/LokacijeDetaljno.aspx?args=zsjok9hTTes=
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> There are contact details here - Tel. 053/655-340
> 
> Thank you ever so much for any help!


When are you coming to visit Željava AB?
Go here (http://zeljava-lybi.com/forum/index.php) and ask there what you should do. Visiting border crossing Ličko Petrovo Selo and informing Croatian police is enough for you (if you are coming from CRO side). And do not cross border (there is usual barricades on the site) because that is illegal everywhere


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## x-type

hofburg said:


> oh, I see now, this will be exit for Krk, not the main route.


well, not really. the expressway will be temporarly ending here, and this is how it should look like:


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## Moravian

hofburg said:


> nice videos! summer souvenirs
> 
> 2012 3rd video, why would anyone go from Bratislava to Zagreb via Budapest
> 
> Right question. No doubts that the background of this "Hungarian routes" from Czech Republic is the quite high price of Slovenian motorway label (it is also psychological factor). And the risk of traffic jams at Macelj/Gruškovlje border crossing during peak season. The label price is the issue for the short connection MMP Šentilj(A) -MMP Gruškovlje (HR).
> 
> It is clear that the route via Budapest is definitely not the shortest way. There is the option to shorten the route a bit (M1/Kisbér - M7/Székesfehérvár). Or the national road Nr.86.hu/E65 (no need to purchase Hungarian e-Matrica) is well-known. It is clearly shorter. However, you see, some people do not want to leave the motorway (especially at nights), they are afraid of the heavy truck traffic, wildlifes and speed limit there (in past few years there were more sections under reconstruction too). At the end of this route there are two main options: HU/HR border crossing in Letenye/Goričan or HU/SLO border crossing Redicz/Dolga Vas. In this case it might be not so easy to avoid the tolled expressway (bypass of Lendava).....


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## i15

> why would anyone go from Bratislava to Zagreb via Budapest


 some Czech drivers recomend Budapest route for those, who usually drive above 130 km/h limit


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## KHS

*New "Schengen" border crossings Klek and Zaton Doli*

Klek & Zaton Doli


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## Puležan

*A1* near Mali Prolog

EDIT: this is the "Ploče interchange" where D425 expressway (to Ploče) branches off the main A1 route



zezi said:


> A1 kraj Malog Prologa
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## Puležan

*A11* somewhere here...

Currently the only works which are being u/c is construction of the overpass in the Odra-Mlaka junction, which can be seen on the map below :











DocLog said:


> Slike od danas, radilo se opet odlično. Iskopani su temelji i betonirano dno temelja vjerojatno za nadvožnjak koji će spajati rotore kod ambasade i na Velikopoljskoj cesti. Slike govore više:
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> Nove slike za vikend ako će biti napretka, a nadam se da hoće. :cheers:


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## hofburg

Puležan;102812552 said:


> A1 near


is that lake normally there?


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## Puležan

*A13* near Farkaševac...

This section is being done so slowly that no change can be seen, even today, half year after the last report 



x-type said:


> evo kratki report s A13 kako sam obećao da ću skočiti biciklom do gradilišta. žali bog kilometara.
> 
> ovo je spoj kod Farkaševca (do kuda sam se nadao da bi ove godine moglo čak biti pušteno u promet). krajem prošle godine sam vidio da su vozili neki asfalt, nadao sam se da su počeli asfaltni radovi. pa, asfaltirali su ovu cestu koja će ići na nadvožnjak preko autoceste...
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> e ovo je novost. postavili su STOP znakove na raskršćima trase autoceste, tj. gradilišta sa šumskim putevima. ne znam samo kome jer su sve strojeve maknuli s trase
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## Puležan

hofburg said:


> is that lake normally there?


It's a valley ("kraška dolina"), but in the periods of strong rain (usually in spring) the valley becomes a lake


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## Puležan

*A1* near Mali Prolog



zezi said:


> A1 kod Malog Prologa ( druge slike)
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^^A10 in the front. A1 in the background


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## Puležan

A10 and the new border crossing "Metković 2"



zezi said:


> Još malo A10 i A1
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## Puležan

*A7/Rijeka bypass* - 1.5.2013.



misipile said:


> *A7/obilaznica: dionica ispod Praputnjaka*
> Radovi napreduju vecom brzinom od ocekivane, ugodno iznenadjenje.
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## Puležan

*A7/Rijeka bypass*



misipile said:


> Kamioni stalno dolaze i prolaze, a setaci smetaju :cheers:
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## Puležan

*A7/Rijeka bypass*



misipile said:


> *Vijadukt Tabor*
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## KHS

edit


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## KHS

edit :bash:


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## KHS

...


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## KHS

@Chris: Please erase last 4 posts... somehow I ve missed it was posted before. Thanks

:nuts:


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## KHS

*Ploče expressway U/C*



polde404 said:


>


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## toonczyk

Seriously?


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## KHS

*Ploče expressway U/C*



Ballota said:


> Prije par dana, nedaleko Ploča...
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## hofburg

where exactly is this viaduct located?


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## KHS

hofburg said:


> where exactly is this viaduct located?



somewhere here I think

arkod.hr

:cheers:


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## Eulanthe

*An update and some questions*

Hi all, I returned from my lovely holiday in Croatia. Some questions/observations - 

1. What's going on with the tolls on the A2? Why is it that if you go from Macelj to Zagreb, you pay 48kn - but if you exit at Durmanec and immediately re-enter, you only pay 33kn in total? I spotted this when entering the motorway, tried it and saved myself 15kn for what took about 90 seconds in total to do. Are they seriously punishing drivers who go the full distance?

2. That new Schengen border at Zaton Doli/Klek - does this mean that Croatia will never ratify the Ploce agreement? I notice that the old "transit" signs have gone from the border - so does this mean that it will be treated as a proper external EU border crossing? 

3. Zeljava was no problem to visit - the border guards were happy that we asked for permission. They scanned our passports and gave us a free pass to go anywhere on the site as long as we didn't enter any buildings. Curiously, 

4. Bregana is another example of tolling stupidity - why is it that you get hit with a 10kn toll for crossing the border on the motorway, yet if you make the very short hop through the (old?) border crossing in Bregana - you pay nothing. 

5. The provision of toilets on the A1 at this time of year is ridiculous - if I'm paying 120kn for driving from Zagreb to Zadar, I expect at least more frequent toilet facilities! 

6. The A1 is a great road - I could drive the area around Maslenica all day, it's just sheer pleasure. 

7. What's going on with the 80km/h limit on the expressway from Zadar 2 interchange into Zadar? It seems ridiculously slow.

8. Are there any plans to dual the expressway from the A1 towards the D1 - near Sveti Rok I think?


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## x-type

1. yes, you are right. that motorway is in major Austrian ownership and they have their price politics.
2. the major problem there is not passenger, but goods traffic, which is an obstacle to EU, who is now forcing construction of the bridge again. it will be, as you say, proper external EU border.
4. Bregana toll station is open toll station for those 15 km between border crossing and Zagreb. that's true that placing the booths would be more suitable between exits Sveta Nedelja and Bregana, but...
5. khm, here are the distances between rest areas with complete service (at least shop, bar and gas station) at Zagreb - Zadar section. 
1 km - 19 km - 11 km - 25 km - 25 km - 40 km - 41 km - 41 km - 39 km - 32 km
between them there are rest areas only with parking, toilet and somewhere bar, app. each 15 km. i don't find it too bad.
6. my favourite section, too 
7. some stupid legislative things. 
8. no. (you probably mean on connector from Gornja Ploča exit on A1 to Udbina on D1)


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## Puležan

Eulanthe said:


> 5. The provision of toilets on the A1 at this time of year is ridiculous - if I'm paying 120kn for driving from Zagreb to Zadar, I expect at least more frequent toilet facilities!





x-type said:


> 5. khm, here are the distances between rest areas with complete service (at least shop, bar and gas station) at Zagreb - Zadar section.
> 1 km - 19 km - 11 km - 25 km - 25 km - 40 km - 41 km - 41 km - 39 km - 32 km
> between them there are rest areas only with parking, toilet and somewhere bar, app. each 15 km. i don't find it too bad.


Eulanthe is right about the rest areas on A1 *during the winter*. On A1 there are lots of rest areas (with gas stations, caffe-bar or just parking facility), but during the winter all of those parking-only (without gas station) are closed! Is it because in that case they don't need to clean the snow or they think that there's no such high demand for stopping:dunno: I find it strange, too.


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## SeanT

I have to make a statement now! I´m impressed. The croatian motorway network is VERY impressive in a so called "heavy terrain". It is a beautiful country, although I ´ve never been there. I have seen a lot of images, videoclips of the country! It is "only" 200 and something Kms from my parents´s hometown of Szfvár. I think I take a trip to "Horvátország" Croatia to summer.:banana::banana::cheers:


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## Puležan

SeanT said:


> I have to make a statement now! I´m impressed. The croatian motorway network is VERY impressive in a so called "heavy terrain". It is a beautiful country, although I ´ve never been there. I have seen a lot of images, videoclips of the country! It is "only" 200 and something Kms from my parents´s hometown of Szfvár. I think I take a trip to "Horvátország" Croatia to summer.:banana::banana::cheers:


:cheers1:

I'm sure you'll enjoy it! If you like motorways in "heavy terrain" I suggest you to try A6+A7 (from Zagreb to Rijeka through Gorski Kotar county) or A1 to Dalmatia. Also, coming from Hungary, you will surely go on A4, which is also very interesting (and curvy on some sections:nuts...


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## darko06

Eulanthe:
"2. That new Schengen border at Zaton Doli/Klek - does this mean that Croatia will never ratify the Ploce agreement? I notice that the old "transit" signs have gone from the border - so does this mean that it will be treated as a proper external EU border crossing?"

x-type:
"2. the major problem there is not passenger, but goods traffic, which is an obstacle to EU, who is now forcing construction of the bridge again. it will be, as you say, proper external EU border."

Fortunately, the border between Croatia and Bosnia & Herzegovina will eventually go to the arbitration court, as went border disputes between Croatia and Slovenia, and recently Croatia and Montenegro. This is the only proper way to settle these disputes between neighbour countries, of them which one is EU member (Slovenia), one is acceding (Croatia) and finally one is negotiating (Montenegro).

About the bridge: EU preliminary stated week ago that the Pelješac Bridge is the only proper way to connect separate parts of future EU territory inside Croatia, with perspectives to connect Montenegro too (after Montenegro's accession to the EU, probably in year 2019).

x-type is wrong in saying that passengers are not the problem, because Dubrovnik citizens feel badly separated from the Croatian mainland. The city council subsidizes every two-way flight ticket from Dubrovnik to Zagreb with 250 kuna per ticket, but only to people who reside in Dubrovnik.


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## x-type

darko06 said:


> Fortunately, the border between Croatia and Bosnia & Herzegovina will eventually go to the arbitration court, as went border disputes between Croatia and Slovenia, and recently Croatia and Montenegro.


huh? am I missing something about border disputies with Bosnia and Herzegovina? never heard of it frankly. what does international arbitration court have with Neum thing exactly? :?


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## darko06

Exactly this: all Venetian, Ottoman, Austrian, Royal Yugoslav and also Yugoslav People's Army maps show the exact border at Neum. Than, in the 1970s, when the cadastral maps were overhauled, Bosnian land surveyers counterfeited some plots. Late president Tudjman, who wanted to settle this thing with late president Izetbegović in 1997, practically gifted these plots to Bosnia and Herzegovina. Even current Foreign and European Minister dr Pusić, once a strong Bosnian supporter when in the opposition, changed hers argumentation and recently denied her support to Bosnia & Herzegovina claims. Thank God, the Ploče agreement is practically dead and will never be live again.

Frankly, I am surprised that someone from Croatia (Bjelovar) is not accustomised with current developement about the Pelješac Bridge.


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## darko06

And to Eulanthe: "transit" signs are gone forever for good. There will be less smuggling, especially counterfeiting tobacco products.


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## keber

darko06 said:


> Exactly this: all Venetian, Ottoman, Austrian, Royal Yugoslav and also Yugoslav People's Army maps show the exact border at Neum.


Neum was always an entity which divided Croatian territories north and south, I believe this is clear. Where are the current borders, some meters here or there, that doesn't solve the problem of transit to Dubrovnik region.

I still believe that a fenced motorway corridor through BiH territory should be build (like Osim road near Nova Gorica was build through Italian territory), the cheapest and most effective solution. However there is too much nationalistic nonsense on both sides so this probably won't happen for some time.


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## darko06

Many people still believe that the arbitration court option is fair solution to both countries (Croatia, Bosnia & Herzegovina).
However, according to the experience with Slovenia and Croatia (almost 20 years from recognizing the problem to bringing it to the arbitration court) it can be assumed that the Neum dispute will wait 10 to 20 years to be resolved at court.
Can Croatia and European Union (connecting Montenegro with the EU) wait so long? No, they can't!


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## keber

That is true therefore BiH and Croatia should find best solution for traffic corridor regardless of any court decisions.
About 6 km long motorway corridor behind Neum would cost 50-100 million € at most and would be passable in any weather. Bridge would cost about 300-500 million at minimum, would be closed in high winds and additional motorway through mountainous terrain of Pelješac peninsula wouldn't be cheap too.
Motorway corridor behind Neum is only sensible solution if you look above nationalistic nonsense.


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## zezi

keber said:


> That is true therefore BiH and Croatia should find best solution for traffic corridor regardless of any court decisions.
> About 6 km long motorway corridor behind Neum would cost 50-100 million € at most and would be passable in any weather. Bridge would cost about 300-500 million at minimum, would be closed in high winds and additional motorway through mountainous terrain of Pelješac peninsula wouldn't be cheap too.
> Motorway corridor behind Neum is only sensible solution if you look above nationalistic nonsense.


BIH refuzed closed corridor with no entrance / exit and with no contol over it. 
Because of Schengen than corridor can not be open type as requested by BIH.


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## Verso

zezi said:


> BIH refuzed closed corridor with no entrance / exit and with no contol over it.


There could be an interchange with a passport and customs control, but even if not, the motorway would still be close to Neum, if there were interchanges right after the border on each side, so it's still a stupid decision, because Neum would profit from having a motorway so close.


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## keber

zezi said:


> BIH refuzed closed corridor with no entrance / exit and with no contol over it.
> Because of Schengen than corridor can not be open type as requested by BIH.


Normal motorway exit with normal toll station and additional customs. You don't need more. Everything else is nationalistic propaganda. Technically solution is very simple, of course then polititians of all sorts lie about possibility and not possibility of this and that.

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## x-type

darko06 said:


> Exactly this: all Venetian, Ottoman, Austrian, Royal Yugoslav and also Yugoslav People's Army maps show the exact border at Neum. Than, in the 1970s, when the cadastral maps were overhauled, Bosnian land surveyers counterfeited some plots. Late president Tudjman, who wanted to settle this thing with late president Izetbegović in 1997, practically gifted these plots to Bosnia and Herzegovina. Even current Foreign and European Minister dr Pusić, once a strong Bosnian supporter when in the opposition, changed hers argumentation and recently denied her support to Bosnia & Herzegovina claims. Thank God, the Ploče agreement is practically dead and will never be live again.
> 
> Frankly, I am surprised that someone from Croatia (Bjelovar) is not accustomised with current developement about the Pelješac Bridge.


Geez. and what was up in the Ice Age?
you know that Neum belongs to BIH since Dubrovnik Republic wanted to defend themselves from Venetians. that's all heritage that we got from the past and we have to deal with it. borders are clearly defined there and there are no any disputies about them there.


keber said:


> Normal motorway exit with normal toll station and additional customs. You don't need more. Everything else is nationalistic propaganda. Technically solution is very simple, of course then polititians of all sorts lie about possibility and not possibility of this and that.
> 
> And motorway is fenced already by default.


actually it is more than nationalistic propaganda. even the leftmost parties in HR started to support idea of the bridge. if there was enough money, it would alerady have visible contours, trust me. 
i have always liked idea of the bridge since i like bridges from contruction point of view. also, there are already too many reasons pro bridge, more than contra. but the only contra reason is stroner than all pros together - finances.

free corridor through Neum isn't possible, mostly because of BIH government, who would insist on free corridor to Ploče port. technicaly, it would be too poor deal for HR if it happened.


----------



## Eulanthe

keber said:


> Normal motorway exit with normal toll station and additional customs. You don't need more. Everything else is nationalistic propaganda. Technically solution is very simple, of course then polititians of all sorts lie about possibility and not possibility of this and that.
> 
> And motorway is fenced already by default.


There's one other issue - from my reading of all the Schengen laws, it isn't allowed to have a Schengen border control on non-Schengen territory. It's complete nonsense, but it's the way it is - and this rules out a normal motorway exit with a Schengen exit control. As I recall, this is what caused all Polish controls to move to the Polish side of the Belarusian border - and what causes new checkpoints to be built exclusively on Polish territory.

Why is giving Bosnia free access to Ploce an issue for Croatia? Maybe I'm not understanding the Ploce Agreement properly - but doesn't Bosnia already have control of some of the port there?

The whole situation should be solved by the EU using common sense. Building a big bridge just to comply with EU rulings when the EU wants Bosnia in the club is completely ridiculous - it would be much better to simply allow the solution above. The situation at Neum is going to get worse if both border crossings are going to be treated as full external EU borders with no possibility of passing through quickly as transit traffic. 

In relation to those transit signs - did they actually work in practice? The only time I was there, there seemed to be no way for the Croatians to tell if someone had genuinely transited through Neum or not. 

At the same time, I'm convinced that Croatia quite likes this problem at the minute - it stops Croatia from having to find the money to actually build onwards. There's nothing stopping Croatia from building a motorway from Dubrovnik to Zaton Doli at the minute regardless of the solution chosen.


----------



## x-type

Eulanthe said:


> Why is giving Bosnia free access to Ploce an issue for Croatia? Maybe I'm not understanding the Ploce Agreement properly - but doesn't Bosnia already have control of some of the port there?


that's called capitalism. if Ploče is in Croatia, then if Bosnia wants to access there, it cannot be free. in capitalism nothing is free. 
Croatia wants to have its international train to Munich? no problem. pay to Austrians and Germans using their tracks. 
Croatia wants to keep their oil fields in Syria or Lybia? no problem, just turn your back to Americans and EU and keep the fields. adn don't ask USA or EU for mercy. 

Bosnia had some kind of control on Ploče while both countries were in Yugoslavia. but both countries wanted their independence what means border between.



Eulanthe said:


> In relation to those transit signs - did they actually work in practice? The only time I was there, there seemed to be no way for the Croatians to tell if someone had genuinely transited through Neum or not.


once i have passed there without stopping. i think that officers were not too happy about that.


Eulanthe said:


> There's nothing stopping Croatia from building a motorway from Dubrovnik to Zaton Doli at the minute regardless of the solution chosen.


it is. lack of money


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## darko06

keber said:


> Normal motorway exit with normal toll station and additional customs. You don't need more. Everything else is nationalistic propaganda. Technically solution is very simple, of course then polititians of all sorts lie about possibility and not possibility of this and that.
> 
> And motorway is fenced already by default.


You mean Bosnian nationalistic propaganda. Croatia has offered exactly this solution: _Normal motorway exit with normal toll station and additional customs. ... And motorway is fenced already by default._ But Bosnian (Moslem) politicians want to have exact the same corridor through Croatia from Čapljina to Ploče harbour in exchange. And I am asking all of you frankly: let's say that Croatian politicians agree to such stupid solution (which will never happen). But will the European Commision agree to that, which means that a third country would have exterritorial corridor through the EU? Does Belarus have similar corridor through the EU, let's say a strip of land between Polish and Lithuanian border?
About the accession of Bosnia & Herzegovina into the EU: to be honest, they didn't resolve the so-called Sejdić-Finci legal case, what is a condition for implementation of Stabilisation Agreement. They didn't even bid the Comission for accesion into the EU. It is realistic that Bosnia & Herzegovina won't enter the EU for at least ten to fifteen years. Do Croatia and Montenegro really need to wait so long?


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## keber

Eulanthe said:


> There's one other issue - from my reading of all the Schengen laws, it isn't allowed to have a Schengen border control on non-Schengen territory. It's complete nonsense, but it's the way it is - and this rules out a normal motorway exit with a Schengen exit control.


Then you make an exemption rule. Like in case of Eurostar trains, where Schengen officials control passports in London.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/France_london_entry.jpg

Saying it is impossible to have an exit outside Schengen area because of some general rules is again only an excuse. EU rules are actually full of exemptions.



> @x-type: if there was enough money, it would alerady have visible contours, trust me.


I know that. But with a price difference for the whole connection in the range of about 500 mil. Euro there is only one sensible solution, especially if we know that traffic won't be very high for decades to come.


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## Broccolli

x-type said:


> there are only disputies with Slovenia and BIH. both are result of huge will of almost landlocked countries to be maritime forces.


I don't want to argue with you ,but in Slovenia/Croatia case, just for info. 
Slovenia/Slovenians was/were always maritime country/nation. 
This case is now in court proceedings. 

And to end this topic i have one funny "story" to tell. My father was buying a new slovenian flag recently, and guess where it was made... in Croatia, it is made in Croatia flag :lol:. So you see isn't all so bad between us, it cant be if you guys are making our national flags for us, and it is also very well made, nice quality fabric


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## MichiH

darko06 said:


> Can Croatia and European Union (connecting Montenegro with the EU) wait so long? No, they can't!


Is it an option to start building a motorway from Slano to Dubrovnik to improve road safety and speed up travelling? Than building a Dubrovnik bypass and a motorway to the Montenegro border near Herceg Novi. I think this takes at least 15 years and would also improve the connection to Montenegro. Afterwards the politial situation could be different to today's situation, and maybe there will be a solution for the Neum passing.

If we would have a motorway through Neum corridor today (or in 5 years), the further road connection to Montenegro would also be as bad as today. If a motorway would built there in the meantime, there would be a perfect road for the whole connection after completing the Neum section!

I guess if it would make sense to implement my suggestion, construction would also not start due to the main problem with funding, isn't it?


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## darko06

That's correct. Croatia has problems with funding current construction of motorways and I can't see how the motorway Slano-Dubrovnik-Ćilipi-Debeli Brijeg can be financed by country itself. On my opinion, urgent need of construction is Dubrovnik bypass and motorway from Dubrovnik to Ćilipi airport. Maybe Croatia can apply with motorway from Slano to Ćilipi to cohesion and structure funds.
The Adriatic Coastal Highway (D-8) from Ćilipi to Montenegrin border has been recently repaved and refurbished, so there is no need for motorway in next 5 to 10 years.


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## stickedy

I'm sure that EU money will soon flow for the connection of mainland Croatia with Dubrovnik and Montenegro. Don't forget that Montenegro is already in the process of accession to the European Union and Croatia is the only connection to the EU. So it's a logical process to work right now on the connection.


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## MichiH

darko06 said:


> Maybe Croatia can apply with motorway from Slano to Ćilipi to cohesion and structure funds.


This would be a great section with a length of about 40 or 50km.



darko06 said:


> The Adriatic Coastal Highway (D-8) from Ćilipi to Montenegrin border has been recently repaved and refurbished, so there is no need for motorway in next 5 to 10 years.


Starting planning today means, that construction can start in 5 to 10 years. This section has a length of about 20km. It will not be completed till 2015 or even 2020.

Wasn't there a plan to build the motorway Dubrovnik - Montenegro through Bosnian territory? Which route would be the better technical solution?


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## darko06

From technical point of view I would say that the coastal route would be better than through Popovo polje/Trebinje. Don't forget that Trebinje is situated on Popovo polje, a longitudinal karst valley with absolute height of cca 230 m above the sea level, where in Montenegro there is already single tubed tunnel Sozina in operation. So, the most convenient option would be similar as Ventimiglia Motorway in Italy, which means that the motorway would pass near the coast from Slano to Herceg Novi, on average absolute height of 30-60 m above the sea level, of course with viaducts, a tunnel between Mokošica and Župa Dubrovačka, and a suspended bridge near the Kamenari-Lepetane in Boka fjord. This motorway should have projected speed of 110 kmh from Slano (Croatia) to Petrovac na Moru (Mne; similar as the Istrian Y parkway), so the route could be more aligned to the terrain and therefore more economic. Of course that there have to be closed sewage system, in case of disasters. There is one more setback of Trebinje/Popovo Polje route: all municipalities in Dubrovačko primorje should be connected to that proposed motorway (Ston, Slano, Orasac, Dubrovnik), so let say three or four more tunnels similar to Biokovo tunnel should be excavated, of course every of them equipped with Schengen system border crossing. Don't forget that it is quite unrealistic for Bosnia & Herzegovina to enter the EU before the year 2030, and this is not a nationalism (as few of fellow forumers of Slovenian origin try to impose), because B & H did not ever formally asked to enter the Union; if they bid next year, they need 10-12 years till enter and this is an optimistic scenario. Another setback: from Trebinje this route should go to Bileca, Niksic and Podgorica to avoid the Boka coastal mountains (Lovcen incl.), so there will be either great turnarounds or more tunnels to excavate.


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## darko06

And let's be fair with financing (I know that this will not please forumers of Slovenian origin): The hard truth is that Croatia financed ALL motorway network on its territory in last 20 years, where Slovenia constructed at least 33% of its motorway network through the cohesion funds from the year 2004, when they entered the EU. So I think that from the EU should be fair to help Croatia to finish its motorway network.
When the EU officials, call them experts (me) or bureaucrats (keber) will make decision about Croatian motorways, either there be present Slovene and Croatian officials, or neither Slovene nor Croatian officials. Sapienti sat.


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## Palance

darko06 said:


> The hard truth is that Croatia financed ALL motorway network on its territory in last 20 years


The hard truth is that Croatia is trying to finance all motorway netork by itself. If it was already financed, the toll should not be necessary and travellers should freely travel though the country without paying any kuna or lipa for using the motorways.

But the hard truth is that toll still exists.


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## x-type

Palance said:


> The hard truth is that Croatia is trying to finance all motorway netork by itself. If it was already financed, the toll should not be necessary and travellers should freely travel though the country without paying any kuna or lipa for using the motorways.
> 
> But the hard truth is that toll still exists.


:?


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## MichiH

Palance said:


> If it was already financed, the toll should not be necessary


No, not at all. Financing means that Croatia funded the building of the motorway, and now they try to get money for operating the motorway and repaying the loan.

Other states, e.g. Poland, got a lot of EU money, and now they also demand toll. They won't return the money directly to the EU, because it is a subvention and not a loan!


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## keber

x-type said:


> :?


Loans are not paid back yet.

Wondering, how was this story with Bechtel?


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## darko06

In 2005 Foreign Minister dr. Miomir Žužul lost his job under charge of "settling" construction of Dugopolje - Bisko section to Bechtel.


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## hofburg

tolls are primarly for using motorways not to build them. but it's weird because if a state takes a loan to build a motorway, tax payers actually repay the loan, therefore it's their motorway, why should they pay for using it.


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## dubart

^^ For maintenance and further network enlargement.


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## keber

darko06 said:


> In 2005 Foreign Minister dr. Miomir Žužul lost his job under charge of "settling" construction of Dugopolje - Bisko section to Bechtel.


No, I mean complete story from the beginning - summary of course. I know that Bechtel started construction of A1 after Croatian army and some other companies already made some significant work, but later Bechtel lost concession or what happened?


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## darko06

Maybe we should read your interpretation.


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## keber

Interpretation of what? 
I'm asking, I don't know whole story.


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## kreden

darko06 said:


> And let's be fair with financing (I know that this will not please forumers of Slovenian origin): The hard truth is that Croatia financed ALL motorway network on its territory in last 20 years, where Slovenia constructed at least 33% of its motorway network through the cohesion funds from the year 2004, when they entered the EU. So I think that from the EU should be fair to help Croatia to finish its motorway network.


It would be stupid of Croatia not to take advantage of available EU funds to complete your network and also invest in railways after you join the union. But that hard truth of yours is misleading, the EU contributed 200 million out of the 6 billion spent on our motorways in total since 1994, when the motorway construction plan was adopted. That's only 3% of the total in the last 20 years.


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## Verso

^^ It's a little more than 300 million euros (5%).

http://www.dars.si/Dokumenti/O_avtocestah/EU_sofinancira_208.aspx


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## darko06

Thanks for the information. I am not envy on Slovenian officials, who succeeded in using cohesion funds. However, 5% is still more than 0%.


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## MichiH

Puležan said:


> A1 Vrgorac-Ploče interchange, predicted opening date: June-October 2013
> A1 Ploče interchange-Metković interchange (A10): October 2013
> A10 BIH border-Metković interchange (A1): June-October 2013





zezi said:


> Latest news: Will be done before 01.07.2013.
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=103056022&postcount=12469


Will the Bosnian section be finished or be opened in June? If it would be opened, the Croatian A10 must also be opened in June - and not in October as announced.

I guess the entire motorway from Vrgorac to Bijaca will be opened at once.


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## Eulanthe

Are my eyes deceiving me, or are they seriously building two separate border control terminals there?

I would have thought that after the success of Licko Petrovo Solo, they would stick with the modern approach of one terminal for both countries?


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## darko06

When one country (Croatia, from 1.7.) is an EU member and the other is not (Bosnia & Herzegovina, and won't be for sure in next 10 years), than separate border crossings are a necessity.
There is a precedence too: in 1990s Croatia asked Slovenia to build one terminal on Obrežje/Bregana border crossing, but Slovene authorities refused with explanation that these countries won't enter the EU at the same time, so the separate terminals had to be built.
Comparison with Licko Petrovo Selo is not logical one, because this crossing will not have fitosanitary facilities.


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## MichiH

Puležan said:


> So, motorway to the very border line, and from the border on the southern side, would be practically useless and vaste of money.


Exactly. But my suggestion is to restart the southern motorway near _Slano_ (25km to the border). The northern motorway is currently built up to more than 10km away from the border. So it doesn't matter where _Neum_ will be passed! Any variant will remain possible.



Puležan said:


> Don't forget the fact that the adriatic-ionian route is not defined yet, so no one knows if the motorway further south will go through BIH (Herzegovina) or through Croatian territory to Montenegro


Well, that's absolutely insignificant. If Croatia would have a motorway up to the Montenegro border, the traffic would use that route, and no further route will be needed.


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## darko06

ChrisZwolle said:


> Was an undersea tunnel considered for the Pelješac crossing? The Norwegians build these kind of tunnels at relatively low prices.


If this solution can be verified as economically better than the bridge, why not?


----------



## darko06

MichiH said:


> Exactly. But my suggestion is to restart the southern motorway near _Slano_ (25km to the border). The northern motorway is currently built up to more than 10km away from the border. So it doesn't matter where _Neum_ will be passed! Any variant will remain possible. ... If Croatia would have a motorway up to the Montenegro border, the traffic would use that route, and no further route will be needed.


I absolutely agree with this. Maybe this is a way to go...


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## ChrisZwolle

The problem with a motorway towards the HR/MNE border is that the terrain further into Montenegro is extremely disadvantageous to build a motorway through. That is why the northern route via Trebinje and Nikšić is proposed, it follows easier terrain.


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## MichiH

ChrisZwolle said:


> The problem with a motorway towards the HR/MNE border is that the terrain further into Montenegro is extremely disadvantageous to build a motorway through. That is why the northern route via Trebinje and Nikšić is proposed, it follows easier terrain.


Ok. But building a motorway from _Slano_ to _Dubrovnik_ (or maybe to _Cilipi_) will take a long time. The stretch from _Cilipi_ to the border is not such important and apart from that easy terrain (easy to continue in case of a southern adriatic-ionian route).

A northern route through Bosnia will surely branch east of _Dubrovnik_. So to build a _Dubrovnik_ motorway bypass will not be useless.


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## darko06

It's only looking easier, after Debeli Brijeg in MNE you only need a bridge crossing Boka fjord and perhaps two or three tunnels to reach southern exit of Sozina tunnel, of course under condition that this so-called parkway posess construction speed of no more than 110 kmh, which will be enough for AADTs in next 10 to 20 years. If this route shoud be a touristical connector than it's supposed location is near the coast, not some 50-100 km in the mountains, if it would be located in Trebinje-Bileća-Nikšić-Podgorica area.


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## darko06

Don't forget that for Trebinje-Bileća-Nikšić-Podgorica route you will also need a minimum of three 5 km long tunnels, furthermore this route will be climbing to at least 800-1000 m above the sea level between Trebinje and Nikšić, so there will be winter conditions.


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## keber

Between Trebinje and Nikšić it's not much better, even worse because motorway would go between 800 and 1000 m asl, again with many tunnels. It would go through nothing and would be good just for transit.
It is better to go close to the coast at least it would pick tourist and local traffic.


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## darko06

MichiH said:


> Ok. But building a motorway from _Slano_ to _Dubrovnik_ (or maybe to _Cilipi_) will take a long time. The stretch from _Cilipi_ to the border is not such important and apart from that easy terrain (easy to continue in case of a southern adriatic-ionian route).
> 
> A northern route through Bosnia will surely branch east of _Dubrovnik_. So to build a _Dubrovnik_ motorway bypass will not be useless.


The real problem here is only a tunnel from Mokošica to Župa Dubrovačka and a few kilometers in Duboka Ljuta bay, where perhaps large viaducts shall be made.
However, today Dubrovnik need a beltway in an expressway/parkway profile (2x2, with or without hard shoulders); and a connection of the same type from this beltway to the Dubrovnik Airport (Ćilipi).


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## darko06

keber said:


> Between Trebinje and Nikšić it's not much better, even worse because motorway would go between 800 and 1000 m asl, again with many tunnels. It would go through nothing and would be good just for transit.
> It is better to go close to the coast at least it would pick tourist and local traffic.


Hallelujah! :cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle

I agree a southern route would serve tourist traffic much better. However all coastal areas are urbanized, I think you'll end up with most of the route in tunnels anyway. A route via the Radovići peninsula would require a pretty spectacular bridge.


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## darko06

Look, I can agree with your argumentation, but wasn't the coastal area from Genova to Marseille pretty well urbanised when the Ventimiglia motorway was constructed? I drove few weeks ago to Hercegnovi, to see this part of Montenegro, and they really need a parkway (2x2) from the border to Zelenika, because in this city there is speed limit of 40 kmh enforced by a patrol on every let's say 2000 m?


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## darko06

And due to the fact that I drove through Big Sur twice, first from Monterey to San Luis Obispo (SLO), and in subesquent year from SLO to Monterey, I can assure all of you that a few spectacular bridges (okay, in Big Sur they are 1+1) are wonderful addition to a really fantastic natural phenomenon.


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## zezi

MichiH said:


> Will the Bosnian section be finished or be opened in June? If it would be opened, the Croatian A10 must also be opened in June - and not in October as announced.
> 
> I guess the entire motorway from Vrgorac to Bijaca will be opened at once.


On both side of border is the same situation. In July 2013 new border crossing will be finished and opened up to first exit only, with conection to local roads. And it will be used like that until motorways are finished. Croatian will be finished in October, and Bosnian next year.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Was an undersea tunnel considered for the Pelješac crossing? The Norwegians build these kind of tunnels at relatively low prices.


Although channel is not deep, botom is soft mostly mud ( River Neretva ) up to 100 meters from sea surface. That makes tunnel more expensive then bridge


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## darko06

And with knowledge that the Montenegrines are people with taste in clothing, I am very sure that this few bridges would be beautifully spectacular.


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## keber

ChrisZwolle said:


> A route via the Radovići peninsula would require a pretty spectacular bridge.


True, it has already been designed:


http://www.ponting.si/media/ebook/index.html
Most of the motorway on the coast between beginning of Pelješac peninsula to Bar would be similar to Ventimiglia - Genova motorway, running mostly between 100 and 200 m asl.


----------



## Verso

MichiH said:


> A northern route through Bosnia will surely branch east of _Dubrovnik_.


Most maps show it by Ploče.


----------



## Eulanthe

darko06 said:


> When one country (Croatia, from 1.7.) is an EU member and the other is not (Bosnia & Herzegovina, and won't be for sure in next 10 years), than separate border crossings are a necessity.
> There is a precedence too: in 1990s Croatia asked Slovenia to build one terminal on Obrežje/Bregana border crossing, but Slovene authorities refused with explanation that these countries won't enter the EU at the same time, so the separate terminals had to be built.
> Comparison with Licko Petrovo Selo is not logical one, because this crossing will not have fitosanitary facilities.


There's no need to have separate crossings - Poland is building several new terminals at the minute, all on the Polish side. As long as the border crossing of the EU state is on EU territory, all is fine. If the phytosanitary facilities are a problem, then simple - build the border crossing building exactly on the border line and have the facilities across the borderline too. 

Slovenia were probably just being awkward - there was no reason to reject Croatia like that, unless Croatia wanted one terminal on the Croatian side. Not to mention that at that time, crossings on the non-EU side were commonplace - many of the major terminals on the Polish border were in Poland, not Germany. 

There is absolutely no reason why Croatia can't share border crossing facilities with Bosnia and Montenegro at most border crossings these days. The one near Prevlaka is a great case in point - why not simply share a building rather than two? 

For what's it's worth, can anyone tell me why there isn't a small border crossing in Bregana at the restaurant Kalin? I visited there (pictures to come...) and was struck by the astounding stupidity of parking the car on the Croatian side and having to walk all the way round to the car border crossing for a coffee! I assume that Croatia will abandon exit controls with Slovenia on 1.7 too? 

(if you're wondering why I didn't just drive to the restaurant - there was a horrific queue for about 2km from the border crossing. Ruined my day - I wanted to go explore the area around Slovenska Vas, but...)

Talking about a motorway to Montenegro, they absolutely should go ahead with building a motorway to Dubrovnik. Traffic is only going to get worse, and Montenegro may be able to get some money to build from the border to Tivat at least.


----------



## keber

Eulanthe said:


> I assume that Croatia will abandon exit controls with Slovenia on 1.7 too?


Not yet, border control remains after July 1st. Just after Croatia joins Schengen area, then border controls will disappear.


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## Verso

^^ He's asking about _exit_ controls.



Eulanthe said:


> For what's it's worth, can anyone tell me why there isn't a small border crossing in Bregana at the restaurant Kalin?


There are already two border crossings in Bregana, you can't have a border crossing for a few houses. And it would be for locals anyway. Looking forward to pics.


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## keber

That is a part of border control, isn't it?


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## Verso

Slovenia abolished exit controls to Italy, Austria, and Hungary on 1.5.2004 (and vice-versa).


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## keber

Funny, I remember police officers checking documents from both countries (on same point). Or do I not remember good?


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## Verso

I don't know, but that's how it was, at least officially. I know I wasn't checked by both countries.


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## MichiH

Verso said:


> Most maps show it by Ploče.


Haven't known that. I have only information as on wikipedia.

"The A1 currently ends near the city of Vrgorac, and it is planned to end at Dubrovnik, but no concrete plans exist for the motorway route past Metković"

The maps of Srpska and Bosnia are very different.

The Bosnian maps has a motorway from _Ploce _to _Pocitelj _and then a branch southeastwards.
The Srpska map has a motorway from _Dragovije _(M-6) to _Trebinje_. But there is also a motorway branch to _Dubrovnik_.

In any case, a Croatian motorway to _Dubrovnik_ could be implicated and would not be useless.


----------



## Eulanthe

Verso said:


> Slovenia abolished exit controls to Italy, Austria, and Hungary on 1.5.2004 (and vice-versa).


I'm trying to work out what the plan is - because Poland didn't abolish exit checks at that time. The only difference in Poland was that (mostly) they worked side by side outside of the booths rather than being sat in the control booths like before.



> There are already two border crossings in Bregana, you can't have a border crossing for a few houses. And it would be for locals anyway. Looking forward to pics.


Sure you can - so many of them existed before 2007! With EU entry, there's really no reason not to allow at least pedestrian traffic to cross there and control it on a random basis. So many of the smaller border crossings really should be opened up on 1.7 - many of them existed prior to Schengen entry in Poland/Czech Republic/Slovakia too, without permanent control.

Thinking more about it, wouldn't it make sense to build (at least, if possible) from Slano to Dubrovnik Airport? This is why - at least to my eyes - it seems that Croatia is quite content to argue about Neum because they simply don't have the money needed to build further on anyway.


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## Puležan

First pictures of *A12* u/c (section from Vrbovec interchange (A12/A13) to Križevci, cca 13 km)



kcspartak said:


> Jućer sam bio u Križevcu i usput posjetio gradilište A12 ili BC prema Koprivnici i vidi se popriličan napredak ,trenutno se radi na izlazu Cubinec okinuo sam neko fotke onako iz automobila usput


^^The prime minister announced yesterday that this road is being built as an 2x2 expressway (without emergency lanes), as well as A13 towards Bjelovar. Also, it's not sure if the designation will remain A12 or it will be renamed, because few months ago Ministry of transport announced that it's renamed to D10 (because of stupid croatian practice of non-having separate designations for expressways). Although, A12 and A13 are built (will be built) with motorway-standards: mild curves, dual carriageway... The only thing they will lack is a hard shoulder.
On the other hand, Rijeka bypass, although built as an expressway without hard shoulders and with big curves, has "A" designation (A7). The "istrian Y" also is a motorway, even though that the old (firstly built) carriageway doesn't have a hard shoulder and it has narrower lanes (3,5 m instead of 3,75 m), but according to the law motorways can have such lane width. So, the only reason of non-calling A12 and A13 "motorways" is stupidityhno:


----------



## keber

MichiH said:


> The maps of Srpska and Bosnia are very different.


Map of Srpska does not consider having a transit motorway at Trebinje, just an expressway or better two-lane main road to connect Trebinje to other towns in vicinity.

Map of Bosnia shows motorway from Počitelj toward SE on a really complicated terrain, which goes through nothing and it is quite expensive and useless proposal.


----------



## MichiH

keber said:


> Map of Srpska does not consider having a transit motorway at Trebinje, just an expressway or better two-lane main road to connect Trebinje to other towns in vicinity.


I wondered about the legend because the new motorways in the north are yellow/red which means highway. Blue is motorway like all planned roads in the south and the east. Is the legend wrong?


----------



## MichiH

Puležan said:


> So, the only reason of non-calling A12 and A13 "motorways" is stupidity


I'd be glad of Croatia wouldn't be as stupid as many others. It doesn't matter if there are hard shoulders or not. Some old German Autobahns still have no hard shoulders, but they were and they are important Autobahns.
Rather many new grade-separeted 2x2 roads with hard shoulders are not signed as Autobahn, e.g. B6n, B9, B15n. That's stupid! And it is the same shit in Austria, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovenia,... hno:

I hope Croatia will not get crackbrained like us.


----------



## Puležan

MichiH said:


> I wondered about the legend because the new motorways in the north are yellow/red which means highway. Blue is motorway like all planned roads in the south and the east. Is the legend wrong?


To be precise - the terms "highway" and "motorway" are not synonyms.

*Highway *is a 2-lane main road, called "magistrala" or "magistralni put", usually with 90 km/h limit - shown as *red* line on the map.

*Motorway *is a dual carriageway (2 lanes per direction + emergency lanes), without at-level crossings, with 130 km/h limit, shown as dotted *red-yellow* line (planned motorways in the northern part of the country). The only finished section of motorway is Banja Luka-Gradiška (E661), which is shown in *bolded dark orange* line (with yellow line in the middle).

*Expressway *is a single- or dual-carriageway road, without at-level crossings, with 100 or 110 km/h limit, shown as *blue *(or dotted blue) line on the map, in south-east and eastern part of the country.
:cheers:

So, on that map we are discussing about, blue dotted line is planned expressway, probably dual carriageway, but the route isn't defined yet (as mentioned before), because there's not enough people on that area to have 2 parallel motorways/expressways (bosnian and croatian one) both going to Montenegro.


----------



## keber

MichiH said:


> I wondered about the legend because the new motorways in the north are yellow/red which means highway. Blue is motorway like all planned roads in the south and the east. Is the legend wrong?


Legend is correct, just English translation is wrong. Yellow/red are motoways and blue are expressways (I presume two-lane, not four)


----------



## MichiH

Puležan said:


> To be precise - the terms "highway" and "motorway" are not synonyms.


Of course. But that was not my question .
But keber already replied that the translation within the legend is wrong!


----------



## MichiH

Puležan said:


> So, on that map we are discussing about, blue dotted line is planned expressway, probably dual carriageway, but the route isn't defined yet (as mentioned before), because there's not enough people on that area to have 2 parallel motorways/expressways (bosnian and croatian one) both going to Montenegro.


That's one more reason to build a coastal motorway on Croatian side up to _Dubrovnik_. Anyway, it would make sense to build that southern section soon. 

Are the plans for the motorway section _Doli_-_Dubrovnik_ already approved? The German wikipedia asserts that. If that's right, the only reason for not building the section now is the missing funding.


----------



## stickedy

Verso said:


> Most maps show it by Ploče.


Just the ones of the Bosnian Federation... However, Bosnia has no money and they have other motorways to build from which the country will benefit more than this proposed transit route in the middle of nowhere.


----------



## stickedy

MichiH said:


> That's one more reason to build a coastal motorway on Croatian side up to _Dubrovnik_. Anyway, it would make sense to build that southern section soon.
> 
> Are the plans for the motorway section _Doli_-_Dubrovnik_ already approved? The German wikipedia asserts that. If that's right, the only reason for not building the section now is the missing funding.


As far as I know this is the case. Works were stopped before they really started but everything should be ready to build that beast as soon as money is available.

Here you'll find the complete description from Doli to Dubovnik: http://motorways-exitlists.com/europe/hr/a1.htm


----------



## gorgoroth

gorgoroth said:


> Malo sam obišao danas od Praputnjaka do Križišća
> 
> Viadukt Križišće
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> između viadukta Križišće i zaboravih ime drugoga viadukta
> 
> 
> 
> kraj Križišća prema mostu
> 
> 
> 
> dalje prema mostu


----------



## stickedy

No, A1 is planned to end in Dubrovnik respectively it will lead to the border with BiH near Osojnik. 

That expressway is a different thing, it will lead from A1 to the airport and most likely further to Montenegro sometimes in the future.


----------



## gorgoroth

gorgoroth said:


> Provozao se od zaboravih ime viadukta do Sv Trojice


----------



## gorgoroth

gorgoroth said:


>


----------



## gorgoroth

gorgoroth said:


> Stižemo i do čuvenog usjeka ispod Praputnjaka


----------



## gorgoroth

gorgoroth said:


> izlaz iz usjeka


----------



## gorgoroth

gorgoroth said:


> Prema čvoru Hreljin


----------



## gorgoroth

gorgoroth said:


> Skrenuli smo prema Hreljinu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> na nadvožnjaku iznad obilaznice


----------



## KHS

:applause:


----------



## gorgoroth

^^ thanks :cheers:


----------



## gorgoroth

Još smo na nadvožnjaku 





pokušaj pošumljavanja



nazad prema Križišću


----------



## gorgoroth

gorgoroth said:


> Pred i u tunelu Burlica


----------



## gorgoroth

gorgoroth said:


> Između tunela Burlica i viadukta Kuk,i na viaduktu


----------



## gorgoroth

gorgoroth said:


> Prošli smo Kuk i sada smo na i ispred viadukta SV.Trojice


----------



## gorgoroth

gorgoroth said:


> nema šanse da bude za 15 dana gotovo,dalje nisam išao,ali je situacije neobečavajuća


----------



## gorgoroth

gorgoroth said:


> Asfaltira se viadukt Sv.Trojice i dio do viadukta Križišće


----------



## gorgoroth

gorgoroth said:


> Povratak


----------



## gorgoroth

gorgoroth said:


> Sada smo u drugoj cijevi tunela Burlica,inače se vračamo drugim trakom


----------



## gorgoroth

gorgoroth said:


>


----------



## gorgoroth

gorgoroth said:


> Od Meje do Praputnjaka


----------



## gorgoroth

gorgoroth said:


>


----------



## gorgoroth

gorgoroth said:


>


----------



## gorgoroth

gorgoroth said:


>


----------



## gorgoroth

gorgoroth said:


> Kraj,toliko od mene


----------



## KHS

So 15.07. it is... :cheers:


----------



## Pascal20a

I hope im not annoying, but is the section of the A10 already opened??


----------



## zezi

Pascal20a said:


> I hope im not annoying, but is the section of the A10 already opened??


A10: Tommorow. Waiting for EU  (But only border crossing - same as BIH side)
:cheers:


Tunnel Sv.Ilija - Biokovo will be opened in next 10-15 days


----------



## YLLIRICON

Hello and Congratulation from Kosova on joining EU it sure deserves it 

can't wait to drive through Croatia next month from UK. 

would like to know how far has the motorway A1 opened towards Dubrovnik and is the new Border crossing into BiH (Neum) opened 

also can i use Euros form today on in Croatia 

thanks


----------



## volodaaaa

YLLIRICON said:


> Hello and Congratulation from Kosova on joining EU it sure deserves it
> 
> can't wait to drive through Croatia next month from UK.
> 
> would like to know how far has the motorway A1 opened towards Dubrovnik and is the new Border crossing into BiH (Neum) opened
> 
> also can i use Euros form today on in Croatia
> 
> thanks


I've got a feeling that some people are confusing Schengen area, Eurozone and EU


----------



## YLLIRICON

volodaaaa said:


> I've got a feeling that some people are confusing Schengen area, Eurozone and EU



LOL im going to have to disappoint you on your feelings , im not confusing Schengen area BUT i might be confusing Eurozone and EU hmmm would be good if you could let me know on my previous question 

thanks


----------



## volodaaaa

YLLIRICON said:


> LOL im going to have to disappoint you on your feelings , im not confusing Schengen area BUT i might be confusing Eurozone and EU hmmm would be good if you could let me know on my previous question
> 
> thanks


However, I think you will have no problem by paying with Euros in Croatia  And sorry, my post wasn't exactly concerned to you


----------



## zezi

YLLIRICON said:


> Hello and Congratulation from Kosova on joining EU it sure deserves it
> 
> can't wait to drive through Croatia next month from UK.
> 
> would like to know how far has the motorway A1 opened towards Dubrovnik and is the new Border crossing into BiH (Neum) opened
> 
> also can i use Euros form today on in Croatia
> 
> thanks


Thanks

A1 up to Vrgorac - as you can see on google maps 
Yes it is opened several months ago

For toll on motorway you can use euros.
Some shops take euros, some dont, but you can use card everywhere :cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

volodaaaa said:


> I've got a feeling that some people are confusing Schengen area, Eurozone and EU


Yes, it was frequently reported in the Dutch media the last couple of days that border controls with Croatia will cease to exist.


----------



## volodaaaa

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yes, it was frequently reported in the Dutch media the last couple of days that border controls with Croatia will cease to exist.


Exactly, my radio is turned one whole day in my work. In news they are constantly telling about how travelling to Croatia is much better since today. But the border checks did not ceased to exist - Croatia have to join Schengen area to do this. And people are still supposed to change the currency to buy goods in Croatia. 

Recent changes concern just citizens not visitors as media try to tell us.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I am rather sceptic about the media. They are constantly making fundamental errors when reporting about fields I have a lot of knowledge of. I'm thinking, how many errors do they report about the fields I do not have a lot of knowledge of? That is why I rather read press releases than news media.


----------



## volodaaaa

ChrisZwolle said:


> I am rather sceptic about the media. They are constantly making fundamental errors when reporting about fields I have a lot of knowledge of. I'm thinking, how many errors do they report about the fields I do not have a lot of knowledge of? That is why I rather read press releases than news media.


I totally agree with your consideration


----------



## italystf

Also many years ago they accepted euro on Croatian toll booths.


----------



## zezi

volodaaaa said:


> Exactly, my radio is turned one whole day in my work. In news they are constantly telling about how travelling to Croatia is much better since today. But the border checks did not ceased to exist - Croatia have to join Schengen area to do this. And people are still supposed to change the currency to buy goods in Croatia.
> 
> Recent changes concern just citizens not visitors as media try to tell us.



Between Croatia and Slovenia, and Croatia and Hungary and Croatia and Italy ( ports) there are no more customs, and there is one stop control for ID, so it will be a bit faster


----------



## italystf

zezi said:


> Between Croatia and Slovenia, and Croatia and Hungary and Croatia and Italy ( ports) there are no more customs, and there is one stop control for ID, so it will be a bit faster


Croatia since today has the same status of UK, IRL, BG, RO and CY. EU but no Schengen.


----------



## MichiH

ChrisZwolle said:


> I am rather sceptic about the media. They are constantly making fundamental errors when reporting about fields I have a lot of knowledge of. I'm thinking, how many errors do they report about the fields I do not have a lot of knowledge of? That is why I rather read press releases than news media.


That's exactly my opinion about our media ! :cheers:


----------



## volodaaaa

zezi said:


> Between Croatia and Slovenia, and Croatia and Hungary and Croatia and Italy ( ports) there are no more customs, and there is one stop control for ID, so it will be a bit faster


Regardless where are you from, they still ask you about the volume of some goods and it still takes some time together with showing ID.


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> yeah, for some reason the road follows the border line for some 2-3 km.


I'd say because of parcels.


----------



## x-type

javimix19 said:


> Congratulations to enter the EU!!, now it's time to enter Euro (or not ) and of course in Schengen. Is previsted some date to enter Croatian in Schengen?


they're speaking about 2015 :dunno:


----------



## cinxxx

maybe you can make it before RO&BG :lol:


----------



## Eulanthe

x-type said:


> they're speaking about 2015 :dunno:


I think a lot depends on the attitude that other EU members take. They can't let in Croatia before Romania and Bulgaria, but it's understandable that there is a huge amount of reluctance to have no border controls between the Turkish border and the Schengen countries.

My gut feeling is that we won't see Schengen expansion at the land border anytime soon. The Croatian border is scarily long and sparsely populated - can Croatia really protect such a long frontier?

For what it's worth - my own view is that Croatia, Bulgaria and Romania should be allowed to join (already, as soon as Croatia is technically ready with the connection to SIS) under the provision that all traffic must use established crossing points that have guards present. A similar solution was used for many years on the Swiss border - there's no reason why it can't work here too.


----------



## stickedy

The situation is different, Switzerland still has custom controls, so it's necessary that the traffic flows through a crossing point with custom offices.


----------



## veteran

A1 motorway, part between exits Zagvozd and Ravča (look from Biokovo mountains)









D512 road Makarska–Ravča


----------



## veteran

Sveti Ilija tunnel to open on Monday (08.07.2013)  Toll: 20 HRK.

Source in Croatian language: Tunel ‘Sv. Ilija’ otvara se 8. srpnja, a tunelarina je 20 kuna!


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Will that be a national road?


----------



## veteran

^^ D532 (Baška Voda-Zagvozd)


----------



## Pascal20a

What happend to the A1 when it will be finished to Metkovic? Will it extend to Opuzen?


----------



## MichiH

Pascal20a said:


> What happend to the A1 when it will be finished to Metkovic?


It will be opened for traffic.



Pascal20a said:


> Will it extend to Opuzen?


Nope! (see previous discussion about _Neum_ situation etcetera)

But I have one more question I didn't get from the former pics: Will the A1 end at the _Metkovic_ interchange or will it end east of the interchange at the D62 (see OSM)? Will there be an advanced provision (I don't know the exact English word, the German one is "Bauvorleistung")?


----------



## MichiH

What's the status of that project between _Ploce_ and _Opuzen_: OSM. A new 4-laned road?


----------



## Pascal20a

But I think it can be extend to Opuzen, cause it have nothing to do with the Neum problem.


----------



## Christophorus

^^ of course it has, who needs a motorway which ends at Opuzen, be serious please!

If the Pelješac bridge really is going to be built one day it would really make sense to prolongate A1 till the bridge and further via Pelješac to Dubrovnik and then somehow to Montenegro. But all of this has been discussed in this topic several times.



MichiH said:


> ...
> But I have one more question I didn't get from the former pics: Will the A1 end at the _Metkovic_ interchange or will it end east of the interchange at the D62 ...?


Our croatian friends will surely answer that question, but my guess is it will end at the interchange and not further, there is exit Kula Norinska and one can access D62 there.

Btw. something different, i read about Jadrolinija added a bigger ship on the Ploče Trpanj ferry line (only way to avoid Neum), does that mean there are more departures too now or did the simply change the ferries and the bigger one runs due the actual schedule?


----------



## Pascal20a

Then until the border crossing Klek


----------



## Puležan

MichiH said:


> But I have one more question I didn't get from the former pics: Will the A1 end at the _Metkovic_ interchange or will it end east of the interchange at the D62 (see OSM)? Will there be an advanced provision (I don't know the exact English word, the German one is "Bauvorleistung")?


It's planned that A1 go further south, but not at the moment, before we decide which solution is going to be chosen for the "Neum problem". About the Metković interchange - it's strange because it will be a TOTSO. As you can see on the map, if you continue driving on A1, you will enter the A10, finishing at the BIH border. So one day when A1 will be extended to the south, you'll have to turn off if you want to continue on A1...



MichiH said:


> What's the status of that project between _Ploce_ and _Opuzen_: OSM. A new 4-laned road?


It's a long-time ago planned 4-lane expressway, which was planned to continue from the existing D425 expressway from this point and go towards Opuzen. As you can see on the satellite imagery, the existing D425 is a 4-lane road from the A1 interchange up until the mentioned point, and from that point its a 2-lane road (still expressway standard) up to Ploče. So it was planned that D425 starts in interchange with A1 and few kilometres later to branch on 2 sides: towards Ploče and towards Opuzen. 

For the time being, it won't be built. Maybe it will be the beginning of the future expressway going via Pelješac bridge 



Christophorus said:


> Btw. something different, i read about Jadrolinija added a bigger ship on the Ploče Trpanj ferry line (only way to avoid Neum), does that mean there are more departures too now or did the simply change the ferries and the bigger one runs due the actual schedule?


Here's the post by polde404, showing the new ferry and its timetable:cheers:



polde404 said:


> Meanwhile:
> 
> _Uz suglasnost Agencije za obalni linijski pomorski promet na liniji 633 Ploče – Trpanj i obratno uključen je brod m/t "JADRAN" kapaciteta 1.200 putnika i 138 vozila, od dana 4. srpnja 2013. godine._
> 
> Do 31. 8. vozi 7. puta dnevno (a do 30. 9. - 5 puta što je ipak bolje nego 3): http://www.jadrolinija.hr/pdfs/633.ljeto.2013.hr.pdf


^^
capacity: 1200 passengers, 138 cars
timetable: 7 rides per day
duration of the trip: ~60 min


----------



## MichiH

Puležan;104982620 said:


> It's planned that A1 go further south, but not at the moment


I know. But are the bridges also be built now or not? Will you recongnize that there could be an interchange in the future?


----------



## toonczyk

Puležan;104982620 said:


> Here's the post by polde404, showing the new ferry and its timetable:cheers:
> 
> ^^
> capacity: 1200 passengers, 138 cars
> timetable: 7 rides per day
> duration of the trip: ~60 min


Finally! I have no clue what the capacity of the previous ferry was, but during holiday season it was very difficult to get on board. I haven't used it in a while, but if I remember correctly there was a larger ferry between Korčula and Orebić than between Trpanj and Ploče, weird considering most people going to Korčula were coming from Ploče anyway (one way or another). The new one is huge though.


----------



## Puležan

MichiH said:


> I know. But are the bridges also be built now or not? Will you recongnize that there could be an interchange in the future?


I think that at the moment only A1-A10 direction will be built, without future ramps for further south direction... No one really knows the exact plans, because construction is still going on, so it's not possible to see the final shape of the Metković interchange...


----------



## zezi

MichiH said:


> I know. But are the bridges also be built now or not? Will you recongnize that there could be an interchange in the future?


From this picture from facebook it looks underpass/overpass A1/A10 is U/C

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...94641177313.2199839.1490395836&type=1&theater







toonczyk said:


> I have no clue what the capacity of the previous ferry was, ...


Before 70 cars 
Now 138


----------



## toonczyk

Nice progress. 

I have one more unrelated question - what are the plans for dealing with Lučko toll plazas' congestion? I've read somewhere there are plans to include Zagreb ring in the toll system, so there would be no more need for toll plazas there - is that true? Any timeline for that?


----------



## darko06

Zagreb beltway cannot be included in toll system. The main reason is that significant parts of A3 and A4 motorways are also excluded from it (Jankomir-Sv. Nedjelja-Samobor; Ivanja Reka-Sesvete-Kraljevec-Sv. Helena; D28 expressway Sv. Helena-Vrbovec) due to the heavy suburban traffic. It is obvious that this traffic would congest relatively narrow city and suburban streets and roads. In case of A2, which is curently tolled under an Austrian company, this would mean a duplication of tollbooths after Jankomir interchange, because it is obvious that in aforementioned scenario this company will also put on toll their remaining toll free part from Jankomir to Zaprešić.

Recently also the Ivanja Reka toll booths are moved some kilometers eastwards, so the Rugvica exit will be exempted from toll.


----------



## javimix19

Hi, I have a question too:

- Considering that Croatia is sorrounded by countries with vignette system (Slovenia, Austria, Hungary) it is not planned to adopt this system to the country? 
I think that system is pretty good than the normal toll collect system. Do you think in the near future that Government of Croatia is going to adopt this system?

I think that vignette system is cheaper for usual drivers but more expensive to tourist. I don't know what is the suitable system for Croatia, and for that I ask


----------



## Puležan

toonczyk said:


> Nice progress.
> 
> I have one more unrelated question - what are the plans for dealing with Lučko toll plazas' congestion? I've read somewhere there are plans to include Zagreb ring in the toll system, so there would be no more need for toll plazas there - is that true? Any timeline for that?


That's not goona happen anytime soon...

But there aren't such big congestions like few years ago, because of the new Demerje toll station only for non-cash toll: ENC (electronic payment), bank cards, credit cards. Lučko remains toll station only for cash, so it's used mostly by foreigners who want to spend kunas before going home or with elderly people scared of using bank cards and unaware of ENC benefits


----------



## Puležan

javimix19 said:


> Hi, I have a question too:
> 
> - Considering that Croatia is sorrounded by countries with vignette system (Slovenia, Austria, Hungary) it is not planned to adopt this system to the country?
> I think that system is pretty good than the normal toll collect system. Do you think in the near future that Government of Croatia is going to adopt this system?
> 
> I think that vignette system is cheaper for usual drivers but more expensive to tourist. I don't know what is the suitable system for Croatia, and for that I ask


Motorway tolls depend very much on tourists during the summer and I think that introducing the vignette system would have negative impact (lower traffic on motorways, more cars on "old" state routes going through towns...), but also domestic motorway users would avoid motorways, because there's no such big number of frequent users that would benefit from vignette system...

On the other hand, the ENC is quite interesting thing - tolling without stopping at toll booths, 22% toll-discount (and up to 50% on some sections: Učka tunnel, Sv. Ilija tunnel), adopted on all motorways (except A2) and other non-motorway tolled roads (Krk bridge, Sv. Ilija tunnel) :cheers: Also foreigners can buy the device...


----------



## x-type

toonczyk said:


> Nice progress.
> 
> I have one more unrelated question - what are the plans for dealing with Lučko toll plazas' congestion? I've read somewhere there are plans to include Zagreb ring in the toll system, so there would be no more need for toll plazas there - is that true? Any timeline for that?


ain't gonna happen. toll plazas at exits would be too congested. there are some long term plans to make wide beltway from Ivanić Grad (A3) to Zaprešić which would be integrated into closed tolling system, but that is far future. 
current bypass is handling existing traffic more than enough because it bypasses city at optimal distance, not too far to reject city traffic, and not too close to be urban motorway which would be disaster for transit. in the case of significant increase there is also option of widening it on 3+3 (which should be already considered imo).



darko06 said:


> Recently also the Ivanja Reka toll booths are moved some kilometers eastwards, so the Rugvica exit will be exempted from toll.


actually, that toll station Ježevo is operational already and Rugvica exit is toll free.
I have a night video of new toll plaza.


----------



## toonczyk

Puležan said:


> But there aren't such big congestions like few years ago, because of the new Demerje toll station


Obviously it helped, but not nearly enough, even on this new toll station traffic jams form sometimes. Not to mention traffic going in the other direction, which has to pass through Lučko...


----------



## x-type

toonczyk said:


> Obviously it helped, but not nearly enough, even on this new toll station traffic jams form sometimes. Not to mention traffic going in the other direction, which has to pass through Lučko...


there is congestion only 2 or 3 weekends in the whole year.
sooner there were congestions at least 3 times a week between end of June and end of August.
also waiting time on Demerje in these largest congestions is not more than 10-15 minutes. that is huge progress comparing to 2 hours waiting times at Lučko.


----------



## Puležan

x-type said:


> in the case of significant increase there is also option of *widening it on 3+3* (which should be already considered imo).


Or building a tangenziale 2+2+2+2 with outer lanes for local traffic and with existing exits, and inner lanes for transit traffic (A3) having only 2 big junctions (Lučko A3/A1 and Jakuševec A3/A11)  That's more space-saving method and not so illogical (longer, not direct) route as outer ZG beltway.

Something like this exists on Split "bypass" (D8), where the local traffic (2 exits for the city) is separated from the transit traffic going north-south...


----------



## x-type

Puležan said:


> Or building a tangenziale 2+2+2+2 with outer lanes for local traffic and with existing exits, and inner lanes for transit traffic (A3) having only 2 big junctions (Lučko A3/A1 and Jakuševec A3/A11)
> 
> Something like this exists on Split "bypass" (D8), where the local traffic (2 exits for the city) is separated from the transit traffic going north-south...


you mean laterals? i think that current bypass runs too far from urban area to implement that system.


----------



## Puležan

x-type said:


> you mean laterals? i think that current bypass runs too far from urban area to implement that system.


Yes, laterals. But I said "tangenziale" to make comparison with the Italian system, where an superstrada runs parallel to the motorway, sometimes with one carriageway on each side of the motorway, like in Bologna.
I don't think it's too far from the urban area, simply because in that way we could solve 2 problems:
1) separating local and transit traffic (important mainly because today transit traffic on A3 near Zagreb is disturbed with the local one)
2) introducing closed toll system on almost the whole motorway network, solving the biggest weak point - Lučko toll station. In my proposal, local traffic lanes (lateral lanes) would be out of the tolling system


----------



## darko06

Puležan said:


> Or building a tangenziale 2+2+2+2 with outer lanes for local traffic and with existing exits, and inner lanes for transit traffic (A3) having only 2 big junctions (Lučko A3/A1 and Jakuševec A3/A11)  That's more space-saving method and not so illogical (longer, not direct) route as outer ZG beltway.
> 
> ...


I agree that the "Tangenziale" you proposed is far better solution than "outer Zagreb" beltway.

However, Croatia is financially exhausted of building motorways, so this is (unfortunately) not going to happen anytime soon.
For now, there is an absolute priority for Pelješac bridge and Dubrovnik beltway from Orašac to Ćilipi airport in shape of an 2+2 expw without hard shoulders.


----------



## hofburg

isn't the tunnel Zagvozd-Baska voda a bit unnecesarry? Sestanovac connection is really close. Drvenik variant would seem more appropriate.


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> you mean laterals?


You mean local-express lanes? 



darko06 said:


> For now, there is an absolute priority for Pelješac bridge


That's an absolutely _last_ priority, if you're broke.


----------



## bewu1

There is no need to build a bridge to Peljesac peniscule at cost of appr. 250 mln Euro. Croatia (with help from EU who is funds provider) shall agree with BiH to build asap a motorway near Neum, in direction to Dubrovnik, and further south.


----------



## darko06

Verso said:


> You mean local-express lanes?
> 
> That's an absolutely _last_ priority, if you're broke.


Agree. You're broke too. So why build a second railway line from Divača to Koper? It would be better to build a direct railway from Koper to Trieste.:lol:


----------



## zezi

hofburg said:


> isn't the tunnel Zagvozd-Baska voda a bit unnecesarry? Sestanovac connection is really close. Drvenik variant would seem more appropriate.




New tunnel ( and road) is very good solution for direction Makarska -A1-Imotski - BiH. And during summer there is lot of traffic in that direction.
But it is very expensive tunnel 

I dont see any traffic for new Drvenik road. Only Vrgorac - Makarska, and they have D512.
Island of Hvar have bad roads, so it is not a good idea to use ferry Drvenik - Sućuraj instead od Split - Stari Grad.
New Drvenik road maybe in future, but not now.


----------



## darko06

bewu1 said:


> There is no need to build a bridge to Peljesac peniscule at cost of appr. 250 mln Euro. Croatia (with help from EU who is funds provider) shall agree with BiH to build asap a motorway near Neum, in direction to Dubrovnik, and further south.


These are sad, if understandable words, from country which recently build at least 1/3 of their motorway network with money from EU funds, isn't it?hno:


----------



## matija

darko06 said:


> These are sad, if understandable words, from country which recently build at least 1/3 of their motorway network with money from EU funds, isn't it?hno:


The economic situation in Croatia and Poland are not comparable. With our stagnant economy, the last thing we need is wasting money on big projects that don't pay off.

The Pelješac bridge project has sadly been hijacked as a political tool by some.


----------



## Verso

darko06 said:


> Agree.


Obviously you don't.



darko06 said:


> You're broke too. So why build a second railway line from Divača to Koper? It would be better to build a direct railway from Koper to Trieste.:lol:


And lose competition with Trieste? :lol: Temporary "solution" is to not build anything at all, but Slovenian railways isn't the topic of this thread.


----------



## darko06

matija said:


> The economic situation in Croatia and Poland are not comparable. ...


Without huge money from EU funds Poland economy would be stagnant too.


----------



## darko06

Verso said:


> Obviously you don't.
> 
> And lose competition with Trieste? :lol: Temporary "solution" is to not build anything at all, but Slovenian railways isn't the topic of this thread.


Ohh, I forgot that you too have built at least 1/3 of your motorway network with EU funds ...hno:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Not really, net EU funding accounts for approximately 1% of the Polish GDP. GDP growth in Poland was generally 3 - 4% in recent years.


----------



## darko06

However European money went into Poland through different ways. For example, most German and other European firms opened factories in Poland after 2004.


----------



## darko06

Does Croatia need to give all the works on future Pelješac bridge to e.g. Greek or Polish or German construction firms to ensure that this important link will be built in near (not near, let's say foreseeable) future?


----------



## Verso

darko06 said:


> Ohh, I forgot that you too have built at least 1/3 of your motorway network with EU funds ...hno:


Much less actually, it's been explained to you already. What's your point anyway?


----------



## Eulanthe

bewu1 said:


> There is no need to build a bridge to Peljesac peniscule at cost of appr. 250 mln Euro. Croatia (with help from EU who is funds provider) shall agree with BiH to build asap a motorway near Neum, in direction to Dubrovnik, and further south.


The most sensible thing that can happen now is for the EU to put heavy pressure on BiH to agree to it - technological solutions should be in place to monitor the road in Bosnia (video cameras/automated numberplate recognition/random checks) with a parallel side road for those that want to enter Neum. 

Schengen law supposedly requires border controls to be conducted on Schengen territory, so the most sensible solution is to create two border crossing facilities on either side of the Neum corridor - no stop required for Croatian transit traffic, but with a wide range of technological solutions to ensure that traffic doesn't stop on the motorway. There can then be a parallel link road to/from Neum which goes straight to the border crossings, meaning that everyone gains from the existence of the motorway. The border crossing facilities could also be used to conduct spot checks on transit traffic at will.

The current situation is just madness - the bridge is senseless (what's the point in building an expressway there?) and only eats money that could be used to try and get the motorway down to Dubrovnik sooner rather than later. 

Still, for me, the craziest thing about *Croatia *is the tolling situation on the A2. I've never encountered a situation where you can save money by exiting and re-entering the motorway at a time cost of less than 60 seconds... The A3 (I think?) to Bregana is also nonsense with the toll barrier straight after the border crossing!


----------



## x-type

Eulanthe said:


> Still, for me, the craziest thing about *Slovenia* is the tolling situation on the A2. I've never encountered a situation where you can save money by exiting and re-entering the motorway at a time cost of less than 60 seconds... The A3 (I think?) to Bregana is also nonsense with the toll barrier straight after the border crossing!


Croatia


----------



## Eulanthe

Update on the border crossings with Slovenia : 

http://www.policija.si/eng/index.ph...ias-joining-the-european-union-on-1-july-2013

In short : exit controls will be maintained, although in practice, there may be two stops rather than one stop depending on the local infrastructure. 

What's interesting is that there is only a vague commitment to introduce joint controls on some border crossings - such as at Rogatec/Hum na Sutli. I can't find any explanation as to why some haven't been included as joint crossings - there certainly seems to be no reason why Rogaetc/Hum na Sutli can't be joined. 

The final cruical piece of news : local border crossings are now available to *all* EU, EEA and CH passport holders. In addition, these crossings are now subject to some strange restrictions - namely that you can only use the border crossing to enter the other state for up to 7 days and that you must exit through the same border crossing. 

It seems strange that these crossings haven't been opened up properly for EU/EEA/CH citizens. Furthermore, it's odd that Slovenia/Croatia haven't come to an agreement to open up some border crossings for touristic purposes. There are still quite a few places (such as near Slovenska Vas/Bregana) where pedestrian traffic could be allowed to cross the border during daylight - I wonder why Slovenia hasn't been more proactive in this case?


----------



## cinxxx

And what if you enter on such a border crossing and travel 500km. It's stupid to have to cross back on the same, maybe you just want to use another border crossing to get somewhere else.

From what I read here, seems that HR-SLO relations are not the best...
For example RO-HU border crossing check is afaik always done in the country you cross to and is mixed.


----------



## Eulanthe

cinxxx said:


> And what if you enter on such a border crossing and travel 500km. It's stupid to have to cross back on the same, maybe you just want to use another border crossing to get somewhere else.


I think it's because the "local border agreement" that these crossings come under doesn't envisage the possibility of such travel - they're intended to be used for short local journeys. I'm struggling to see why these can't be opened up for EU/EEA/CH citizens and turned into intrastate crossings - but perhaps it's because they were opened up under an international agreement that would require changing first. 

It's also possible that these border crossings aren't equipped to Schengen standards, hence they can only be used for local travel. However, bearing in mind that these were closed to all but locals (living in that border area) until a few days ago, it's a huge improvement. 

As far as EU/EEA/CH citizens go, it's not a big deal anyway - there are plenty of intrastate border crossings open to them anyway. Still, it's confusing why these intrastate crossings didn't become international crossings... 



> From what I read here, seems that HR-SLO relations are not the best... For example RO-HU border crossing check is afaik always done in the country you cross to and is mixed.


I think it's just a matter of how the SLO crossings are equipped - from everything I've read, the joint controls are on Slovenian territory because their facilities are simply better - bigger parking areas, more lanes, etc etc. 

The crossing that comes to mind is the Razvor/Bistrica ob Sotli, crossing - the SLO side is modernised and well equipped, whereas the HR side seems to be lacking in comparison. Also, I think one feature of some Slovenian crossings is that the lanes can be varied (with the LED signs and booths that can be opened either side) whereas Croatian crossings tend to be unidirectional.

I'm only going by the HU crossings that I've seen, but none of them were upgraded in the sense of physical infrastructure on the RO border. Perhaps that's why the SLO/HR border controls are moving to the 'one stop' on the SLO side whereas others went for the control on entry to the territory?


----------



## javimix19

Hi, I have two questions :

- How many km of motorways are under construction now in Croatia? I suppose that economical crisis is affecting the construction of infraestructures.

- This is more a political question: how is the relation between Slovenian and Croatian governments, considering that a few years ago I read in Wikipedia that Croatia accused Slovenia to not built their nort-south connections of motorways. Is this matter resolved?


----------



## italystf

javimix19 said:


> Hi, I have two questions :
> 
> - How many km of motorways are under construction now in Croatia? I suppose that economical crisis is affecting the construction of infraestructures.
> 
> - This is more a political question: how is the relation between Slovenian and Croatian governments, considering that a few years ago I read in Wikipedia that Croatia accused Slovenia to not built their nort-south connections of motorways. Is this matter resolved?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highways_in_Croatia#Motorway_sections_under_construction


----------



## bewu1

darko06 said:


> These are sad, if understandable words, from country which recently build at least 1/3 of their motorway network with money from EU funds, isn't it?hno:


Poland build significant part of its motorway network with help of EU funds because majority of money allocated for motorway construction was sensibly spent. If Croatia (a beautiful country with still big infrastructure needs) spends big part of EU money allocated for motorways construction into Peljesac bridge' project, then the biggest loser will be Croatia itself.


----------



## Verso

Eulanthe said:


> The final cruical piece of news : local border crossings are now available to *all* EU, EEA and CH passport holders. In addition, these crossings are now subject to some strange restrictions - namely that you can only use the border crossing to enter the other state for up to 7 days and that you must exit through the same border crossing.


I don't know why they still mention the old regime with border pass and then at the end add that you don't need it any more. It looks confusing. I get it that you still need a border pass, but that you can now get it at the border? And you can only stay in the local area, so you can't go to Ljubljana or Split.



cinxxx said:


> From what I read here, seems that HR-SLO relations are not the best...
> For example RO-HU border crossing check is afaik always done in the country you cross to and is mixed.


How many international road border crossings are there between Romania and Hungary? I have a map of Hungary from 1994 and there were just 4 intl. road BCs on the entire RO-H border. At the same time there were already 20 intl. road BCs between Croatia and Slovenia, so the border has been quite open even after independence.


----------



## zezi

javimix19 said:


> Hi, I have two questions :
> 
> - How many km of motorways are under construction now in Croatia? I suppose that economical crisis is affecting the construction of infraestructures.
> 
> - This is more a political question: how is the relation between Slovenian and Croatian governments, considering that a few years ago I read in Wikipedia that Croatia accused Slovenia to not built their nort-south connections of motorways. Is this matter resolved?


-A1 Vrgorac - Ploče - Metković 16 km U/C , will be finished by end of the year
-A10 Metković- Kula Norinska 3,6 km U/C, will be finished by end of the year
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=43.1515&lon=17.4775&zoom=12&layers=M



-A5 only bridge over river Drava near Osijek, finish unknown
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.6141&lon=18.5861&zoom=13&layers=M

A11- Zagreb Velika Gorica, 10 km, finish unknown
A11- Buševec-Lekenik, 10 km, will be finished 10/2013
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.5943&lon=16.1662&zoom=13&layers=M


Total about 40 km

Croatia and Slovenia have lot of issues, but i think relations are fine


----------



## cinxxx

I didn't mean big issues, it was just a feeling I got reading some posts. Of course you know better then me .

Regarding your question, Verso, I found this page
http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontiera_între_România_și_Ungaria

So the border between RO and HU is 448 km long, of which 415,9 km land and 32,1 km water. There are 15 border crossings, 10 for cars, 5 for railway.

:cheers2:


----------



## KHS

*Sveti Ilija (Biokovo) tunnel - 4 249 m*






:cheers:


----------



## hofburg

how is the junction with D8? is it grade separated?


----------



## KHS

hofburg said:


> how is the junction with D8? is it grade separated?


Looks like it is...



zoltan gera said:


> Spojna cesta prema moru


----------



## Pascal20a

How far is dubrovnik away from the junction Ploce?


----------



## italystf

https://maps.google.it/maps?saddr=P...tLEzEA1SuGUK0ABA&oq=dubrovnik&mra=ls&t=m&z=10
100km


----------



## Pascal20a

Is the A1 from Vrgorac to Metkovic already paved?


----------



## Verso

Eulanthe said:


> The final cruical piece of news : local border crossings are now available to *all* EU, EEA and CH passport holders.


I'm not so sure about it (the guy is from Hungary):


----------



## Eulanthe

Can someone translate what's being said? 

Either way - :nuts: is all I can say.


----------



## Verso

Basically, the policeman says this is a "small border" (_kleine Grenze_), meaning it's a local border crossing (Sveti Martin na Muri/Hotiza).


----------



## darko06

Verso said:


> Basically, the policeman says this is a "small border" (_kleine Grenze_), meaning it's a local border crossing (Sveti Martin na Muri/Hotiza).


Deceiving, because Slovenian newspaper Delo reported that in fact *Slovenian border policeman* accused the man on improper behaviour. So please put this video on Slovenian thread. It does not belong here. hno:


----------



## darko06

Ohh, I forgot:
When will Slovenian motorways company build the missing link between Dragonja Schengen internal EU border and Koper?


----------



## darko06

Eulanthe said:


> ...
> But I still maintain that the best possible solution now would be to wait until the entire Balkan region can join Schengen at the same time. If they do, Europe can concentrate on guarding a mostly sea border without having to worry about lengthy land borders too in that part of the world.
> ...


It is obvious (it can be seen from outer space) that e.g. Croatia and Serbia (or Bosnia & Herzegovina) shall not enter Schengen at the same time.
But to paraphrase Blondie: Dreaming is free...


----------



## Verso

darko06 said:


> Deceiving, because Slovenian newspaper Delo reported that in fact *Slovenian border policeman* accused the man on improper behaviour. So please put this video on Slovenian thread. It does not belong here. hno:


I know it's a Slovenian policeman, but it's the border with Croatia and a joint border crossing. I just replied to Eulanthe who talked about local border crossings between Croatia and Slovenia here.



darko06 said:


> Ohh, I forgot:
> When will Slovenian motorways company build the missing link between Dragonja Schengen internal EU border and Koper?


This question belongs here?


----------



## Eulanthe

Verso said:


> I know it's a Slovenian policeman, but it's the border with Croatia and a joint border crossing. I just replied to Eulanthe who talked about local border crossings between Croatia and Slovenia here.
> 
> This question belongs here?


Yes, it does.

I think it's safe to say that the situation seems to be completely absurd. I don't think there's any precedent in the EU since Schengen started for border crossings to be restricted to nationals of the bordering countries - it would seem to be completely contradictory to the idea of freedom of movement.

The only logical thing I can think of is that these local border crossings aren't equipped to check the Schengen database yet - as previously they would have been used by locals with valid passes. But mobile readers exist and are commonplace, so that's no excuse - I was stopped in Szczecin train station by such mobile patrols, and they confirmed that they used a mobile data link to the database. 

Either way, the Slovenian police say themselves that the border crossings are open to anyone that doesn't require a visa to enter the other country.



dark006 said:


> It is obvious (it can be seen from outer space) that e.g. Croatia and Serbia (or Bosnia & Herzegovina) shall not enter Schengen at the same time.
> But to paraphrase Blondie: Dreaming is free...


Absolutely. But you never know - if the EU gave Romania, Bulgaria and Croatia a shove and told them that Schengen accession will only be carried out in one large group rather than individually, those countries might take responsibility for getting the others into Schengen at the same time. I'd certainly feel much more confident about Schengen if there wasn't that easy route from Albania-Kosovo-Serbia.


----------



## Pascal20a

Whats the current si5uation of the A1??


----------



## x-type

Pascal20a said:


> Whats the current si5uation of the A1??


2 new metres have been built since your last asking about it


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Do you really need to ask that every 2 days?


----------



## Pascal20a

I dont ask every second day.
Im very interested in this motorway


----------



## keber

Pascal20a said:


> I dont ask every second day.
> Im very interested in this motorway


Ok, then every third day.
As interested as you are things won't get built any quicker than they are planned.


----------



## Pascal20a

Not every third day
Then i will wait until new news of the A1 arrive here


----------



## diegobonazzi

*Sv.Kuzam - Križišče*

Hi Guys! Is it really true that today was opened the section Sv.Kuzam - Križišče of the A7?!?! It would be great...:cheers:


----------



## darko06

Eulanthe said:


> ...
> Absolutely. But you never know - if the EU gave Romania, Bulgaria and Croatia a shove and told them that Schengen accession will only be carried out in one large group rather than individually, those countries might take responsibility for getting the others into Schengen at the same time. I'd certainly feel much more confident about Schengen if there wasn't that easy route from Albania-Kosovo-Serbia.


I would bet on contrary: that Greece will urge entering Bulgaria and Romania into Schengen ASAP.

One more thing: Romania and Bulgaria possess common border line which is not Schengen border, so it is okay for them to be bind together in Schengen matters. In the other hand Croatia possess only Schengen border with its EU neighbours (Hungary, Italy, Slovenia) and can not be together with Romania and Bulgaria, not to say Serbia or B&H.


----------



## darko06

diegobonazzi said:


> Hi Guys! Is it really true that today was opened the section Sv.Kuzam - Križišče of the A7?!?! It would be great...:cheers:


That would be a great news.


----------



## darko06

Rijeka's newspapers Novi list reports at its website that the expressway Sv. Kuzam-Križišće was opened for traffic today.

EDIT: However, the expressway was opened in full profile only between interchanges Sv. Kuzam and Hreljin. From interchange Hreljin to interchange Križišće and to the crossing with D8 was opened only south carriageway (2+0) instead of half profile (1+1). It means that in direction Krk or Crikvenica the expw is opened to D8. In direction Rijeka one must enter the expw at Sv. Kuzam.
They also noticed that it will be necessary to reconstruct the existing crossing with D8 (Šmrika).


----------



## Puležan

Here's a video of the section Hreljin-Sv.Kuzam (note: it wasn't opened when the video was shot):



misipile said:


> Naravno da ne, okret opet i kako bi Mamic rekao - ajmoooooo :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^ uglavnom, vozeci <100 kmh cijelim putem od Hreljina do Sv. Kuzma ugodne 4 minute voznje. Predivno iskustvo. Jedva cekam cijelu dionicu, makar zasad samo u drugom smjeru (brz povratak kuci).
> 
> Koga iritira moje fuckanje (nisam jako, nisam uopce u biti, al eto aparat blizu glave, zabiljezi svaki zvuk, pa i "disanje" hehe) nek si nadje neku drugu audio traku il nek kaze da ju zamjenim, pa mozda i hocu :lol:
> 
> *Napomena: stavi u barem 720p (il 1080p) i full screen* i eto, kao da se sam vozis tuda, bez igdje ikoga :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

http://www.novilist.hr/Vijesti/Gospodarstvo/Cesta-Sv.-Kuzam-Krizisce-pustena-u-promet


----------



## darko06

North carriageway should be opened in November this year.


----------



## diegobonazzi

*direction south*

So, from Rijeka direction Zadar it is opened? Right?


----------



## Puležan

diegobonazzi said:


> So, from Rijeka direction Zadar it is opened? Right?


Yes! 

In direction north, you have to go to Hreljin via Križišće, and then go to the A7 at Hreljin exit.


----------



## Verso

One-way expressway then.


----------



## Puležan

^^
Section from Sv. Kuzam (exit #10) to Hreljin (exit #11) is a full-profile, 4-lane expressway (2x2), shown green on the map. Section from Hreljin to Križišće and Šmrika "interchange" (yellow) is opened only for direction south, with 2 lanes merging to 1 before the end. The carriageway for north direction will be finished in November


----------



## zezi

December 11th, 2012


Pascal20a said:


> when the A1 will be opened??


December 24th,2012


Pascal20a said:


> when is the A1 opened?? Does the A1 built by dubrovnik cause we can see it on the road map?? Does anybody have new photos of the peljesac bridge??


December 29th, 2012


Pascal20a said:


> Why the A1 in the south of Ploce won't opened soon???


March 23rd, 2013


Pascal20a said:


> What percentage of the Croatian A1 has already been completed? Does anybody have new pics of the A1 in construction?


March 27th, 2013


Pascal20a said:


> Does anybody have actual information about that??


March 27th, 2013


Pascal20a said:


> ok thanks for the info
> does anybody have new pics of the A1 in construction?


May 11th, 2013


Pascal20a said:


> In my opinion, the Croatian state should continue the highway to the border crossing. Then break in Bosnia and continue again in Croatia.


May 18th, 2013


Pascal20a said:


> When will the A1 paved??


May 20th, 2013


Pascal20a said:


> When the A1 will be built to Klek?


June 8th, 2013


Pascal20a said:


> Any new infos about the A1???


June 12th, 2013


Pascal20a said:


> Why will the A1 opened in October. Why not sooner??





Pascal20a said:


> Yes i know it, but I think its much better when its finished in july that the tourists can drive on it





Pascal20a said:


> Ok thanks for the info. I hope that the A1 will be opened in October





Pascal20a said:


> Are there any delays of the A1 cause the motorway wont finished this july


July 13th, 2013


Pascal20a said:


> Is the A1 from Vrgorac to Metkovic already paved?


July 17th, 2013


Pascal20a said:


> Whats the current si5uation of the A1??


:nuts:
Wait for november


----------



## Verso

Eulanthe said:


> Yes, it does.
> 
> I think it's safe to say that the situation seems to be completely absurd. I don't think there's any precedent in the EU since Schengen started for border crossings to be restricted to nationals of the bordering countries - it would seem to be completely contradictory to the idea of freedom of movement.
> 
> The only logical thing I can think of is that these local border crossings aren't equipped to check the Schengen database yet - as previously they would have been used by locals with valid passes. But mobile readers exist and are commonplace, so that's no excuse - I was stopped in Szczecin train station by such mobile patrols, and they confirmed that they used a mobile data link to the database.
> 
> Either way, the Slovenian police say themselves that the border crossings are open to anyone that doesn't require a visa to enter the other country.


Ok, I've figured it out now. All citizens of EU, EEA, CH can cross the border at local border crossings, but you get a border pass, which costs 80 cents. The problem is that the Hungarian guy had only 40 cents.


----------



## TurboEngine

Eulanthe said:


> Absolutely. But you never know - if the EU gave Romania, Bulgaria and Croatia a shove and told them that Schengen accession will only be carried out in one large group rather than individually, those countries might take responsibility for getting the others into Schengen at the same time. I'd certainly feel much more confident about Schengen if there wasn't that easy route from Albania-Kosovo-Serbia.


The fact that some former yugoslavian countries don't know where their borders are exactly has nothing to do with Bulgaria or Romania. I don't know why you insist on putting everyone in one group when their circumstances are completely different.


----------



## Eulanthe

Verso said:


> Ok, I've figured it out now. All citizens of EU, EEA, CH can cross the border at local border crossings, but you get a border pass, which costs 80 cents. The problem is that the Hungarian guy had only 40 cents.


You've ruined my day : I now feel obliged to go to Slovenia/Croatia next month and buy such a pass  The situation is pretty unique in Europe (as far as I can tell...) - and I want to go before the EU interferes and puts a stop to the situation!

But thank you for the clarification - it now means that another trip from Macelj to Bregana is in order 



Turbo Engine said:


> The fact that some former yugoslavian countries don't know where their borders are exactly has nothing to do with Bulgaria or Romania. I don't know why you insist on putting everyone in one group when their circumstances are completely different.


In all honesty, it's because I'd feel far more confident about Schengen were the entire Balkans to go in at once. I agree that the situations are completely different, but for me, it makes a lot of sense to wait until everyone can join at once - meaning that plans can be specifically drawn up to guard the coastline without having to worry too much about the land frontier.


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## javimix19

I am a citizen of the EU if I go to Croatia, (perhaps in next summer, I am planning a visit to the country) I need only my ID card? Or only more? (Passport, visa)


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## TurboEngine

javimix19 said:


> I am a citizen of the EU if I go to Croatia, (perhaps in next summer, I am planning a visit to the country) I need only my ID card? Or only more? (Passport, visa)


You only need your ID just like in any other EU country. AFAIK, even the last few years before they joined EU you could travel with an ID.


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## TurboEngine

Eulanthe said:


> In all honesty, it's because I'd feel far more confident about Schengen were the entire Balkans to go in at once. I agree that the situations are completely different, but for me, it makes a lot of sense to wait until everyone can join at once - meaning that plans can be specifically drawn up to guard the coastline without having to worry too much about the land frontier.


Well, that's next to impossible.


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## zezi

misipile said:


> *
> Sv.Kuzam-Krizisce-Smrika (D8)
> *


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=105292176&postcount=9982

:cheers:


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## x-type

Verso said:


> Ok, I've figured it out now. All citizens of EU, EEA, CH can cross the border at local border crossings, but you get a border pass, which costs 80 cents. The problem is that the Hungarian guy had only 40 cents.


he came there just to troll the officers. afaik he was some kind of journalist or something.


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## bogdymol

zezi said:


> December 11th, 2012
> 
> 
> December 24th,2012
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> December 29th, 2012
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> :nuts:
> Wait for november


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## Verso

x-type said:


> he came there just to troll the officers. afaik he was some kind of journalist or something.


Yeah, I think he was trolling. He's going to Asia because of apartheid in Europe.


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## keber

Puležan said:


> ^^
> Section from Hreljin to Križišće and Šmrika "interchange" (yellow) is opened only for direction south, with 2 lanes merging to 1 before the end. The carriageway for north direction will be finished in November


Will this interchange be solved better?
In video I see unobstructed left turn from new expressway to Crikvenica. Is this just temporary until November or is this permanent?


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## zezi

^^
Temporary
Up to November all 4 lanes will be put in use.
Up to next summer interchage will be reconstructed, but so far we dont have info in what way.


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## darko06

In television news RTL "Vijesti" yesterday evening it has been said that the Smrika "interchange" will be improved till Summer 2014, without details about the solution itself.

Which solution would be better: cloverleaf or roundabout?


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## Puležan

darko06 said:


> In television news RTL "Vijesti" yesterday evening it has been said that the Smrika "interchange" will be improved till Summer 2014, without details about the solution itself.
> 
> Which solution would be better: cloverleaf or roundabout?


A cloverleaf would definitely be the better solution, because it would allow traffic in both main routes (A7<->D102, D8 Rijeka<->Crikvenica) *flow without stopping*. Also, *no big construction works are needed*, because the existing overpass can accomodate 3 lanes (+2 on/off ramps on each side of the pillars) under itself, so the only construction works needed would be building of the "leaves" (on- and off-ramps for 90° and 270° turns) :cheers:


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## Alex_ZR

New toll station "Zagreb East" opened on July 5:


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## zvonko

Puležan said:


> A cloverleaf would definitely be the better solution, because it would allow traffic in both main routes (A7<->D102, D8 Rijeka<->Crikvenica) *flow without stopping*. Also, *no big construction works are needed*, because the existing overpass can accomodate 3 lanes (+2 on/off ramps on each side of the pillars) under itself, so the only construction works needed would be building of the "leaves" (on- and off-ramps for 90° and 270° turns) :cheers:


Too much work. Smrika is a temporary connection to A7. Yellow is the plan for the future.


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## MichiH

^^ Is there any information about the future interchange design, will it be possible to drive from the future A7 to Krk grade-separated?
Is there any time schedule regarding the future A7 Rijeka bypass and the future 2nd Krk Bridge?


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## x-type

MichiH said:


> ^^ Is there any information about the future interchange design, will it be possible to drive from the future A7 to Krk grade-separated?
> Is there any time schedule regarding the future A7 Rijeka bypass and the future 2nd Krk Bridge?


partially. namely, D523-D8 intersection is already partialy grade separated. i say partialy because both D8 and D523 (Google Maps are wrong, it's not D501) have priority because they intersect in 2 levels with branches, but there are left turns at D523 at that intersection. take a look..
there are also 3 other intersections in the same level (2 of which just before the bridge toll barrier) and i think there is no reason for closing them or to make them im 2 levels.

2nd bridge to Krk? when there are some other islands with no bridges at all? wet dreams of some people from that area...


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## MichiH

x-type said:


> partially. namely, D523-D8 intersection is already partialy grade separated.


Thanks, but I meant the future A7, not the new A7 - the green dotted one, not the blue one: > click < . More precisely the connection b/n the green and the blue A7.


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## x-type

MichiH said:


> Thanks, but I meant the future A7, not the new A7 - the green dotted one, not the blue one: > click < . More precisely the connection b/n the green and the blue A7.


that one can be temporarly called A7. real A7 has nothing with island of Krk. i guess somebody from Rijeka has drawn that map


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## zezi

MichiH said:


> ^^ Is there any information about the future interchange design, will it be possible to drive from the future A7 to Krk grade-separated?
> Is there any time schedule regarding the future A7 Rijeka bypass and the future 2nd Krk Bridge?


There is no time schedule for future A7, or for new Krk bridge. Interconection will be build, but now on this road there is no any exit for that connection.
The idea is to build new port on Krk island, and then new bridge with 4 lanes and with rail will be build. But this distant distant future.


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## keber

x-type said:


> I guess somebody from Rijeka has drawn that map


There are too much planned road projects on openstreetmap.org in Croatia. Some projects have even different variants and many are not planned to be constructed any time soon.


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## x-type

keber said:


> There are too much planned road projects on openstreetmap.org in Croatia. Some projects have even different variants and many are not planned to be constructed any time soon.


i don't see anything unreal there, except few these things around Rijeka :dunno:
they are also planned, but in far future. 
i thought there would be roads like wide Zagreb bypass, northern tangent, motorway Virovitica - Osijek - Vukovar - Ilok etc.


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## keber

Planned roads south of Split up to MN border are also pretty abundant.


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## x-type

keber said:


> Planned roads south of Split up to MN border are also pretty abundant.


well not really :dunno:
those things around Omiš are u/c (but slow because of €), the only unreal thing is tunnel Drvenik.


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## Groundhog_SI

I didn't read all the posts (if it was already answered) - after completion of the A7 to Žuta Lokva, will there be a new exit to Senj (from one or both directions), or will it stay the same? When is this part supposed to be finished?


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## zezi

Groundhog_SI said:


> I didn't read all the posts (if it was already answered) - after completion of the A7 to Žuta Lokva, will there be a new exit to Senj (from one or both directions), or will it stay the same? When is this part supposed to be finished?


That part is not u/c and there is no time schedule. Maybe in ten or twenty or thirty years. And there will be an exit for Senj


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## diegobonazzi

*shortcut?...*

How it'll be clever to cut my route to Dubrovnik now that the Rijeka bypass reached Križišče?
I mean: instead of travelling on the A3 until Bosiljeva and there take the A1, if I continue the Rijeka bypass and then continuing on the cost until Senj and take the A1 at Žuta Lokva?
I know that it is approximatelly 50 km less but how fast can I travel on the costal road? Total travel time will be more or less the same?


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## keber

Travel time won't be less even outside tourist season. Coastal road to Senj can be busy at all times, especially on summer weekends, not only because of coastal touristic towns but it is also main road to islands of Rab and Pag. Also ascent to Žuta Lokva is curvy with slow vehicles, even trailer trucks.

For sure I would not choose that on summer weekends, better stick with A6 to Bosiljevo and then A1. However D8 it is very scenic road and outside traffic peaks it is worth visit it.


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## stickedy

No, take the detour. Its even about 80 km shorter, but the traffic on the coastal road can be much higher. You have to cross through several villages and cities and that will take time. Also the road is curvy, you avarage speed will be much lower. So take the motorway unless you are driving in the night or you have enough time.


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## zezi

*A1 U/C*

For *Pascal20a* only


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## zezi

Few more


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## Christophorus

zezi said:


> For *Pascal20a* only


Sorry :angel:, i know its only for Pascal20a :nuts:, hope you dont mind me asking anyway if i´m considering correctly: we are on the Metković interchange - left hand we see the contiunation of A1 which will stay dead end for at least a mid-term while... wonder why the finish it then... right hand we see A10 continuing to the new border crossing Nova Sela



zezi said:


> Few more


So thats the new B/C Nova Sela? Is that picture taken after the opening? If so its almost unbelieveable how less traffic is on that site... I don't see any cars nor trucks... and BiH was afraid to fall in isolation... hno:


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## zezi

First picture is *not* Metković but Ploče interchange. Expressway for port of Ploče ( See green oval)

or here
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=43.14508&lon=17.48912&zoom=16&layers=M


Second picture is Nova Sela - Bijača new B/C, picture was taken on Monday.
For now only trucks use this B/C because they have to. For cars this BC is detour, before AC are connected on both sides of border (during next year). 
Cars use BC near Vrgorac or near Metković usually.

More pictures from Nova Sela - Bijača B/C
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=105525553&postcount=14024

Edit: Map on top have some differences with actual plan/situation


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## javimix19

Is now A-1 motorway the priority project of Croatian Motorways? I read that Croatia has economic problems, (like my country also) how the money is going to be shared out?

Are other motorways under construction or only the A-1?


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## zezi

A1 will be finished during this year( with A10) - 15 km motorway and 7 km expressway 
Also A5 is U/C; Drava bridge and part from A3 to river Sava( about 4 km)
A11 is U/C about 10 + 2km.
After this is complete, there wont be any more motorways construction for a while

Croatian Motorway say they have money for this U/C parts for now, but problem is they dont have money for paying back loans.


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## darko06

zezi said:


> For *Pascal20a* only
> ...


What (where) is this?


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## zezi

^^
Same interchange
Ploče http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=43.14508&lon=17.48912&zoom=16&layers=M




Picture taken where green arrow is


Picture taken where blue arrow is
[/QUOTE]


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## darko06

Thanks.


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## Puležan

zezi said:


> A1 will be finished during this year( with A10) - 15 km motorway and 7 km expressway
> Also A5 is U/C; Drava bridge and part from A3 to river Sava( about 4 km)
> A11 is U/C about 10 + 2km.
> After this is complete, there wont be any more motorways construction for a while
> 
> Croatian Motorway say they have money for this U/C parts for now, but problem is they dont have money for paying back loans.


You forgot the A8 - construction of cca 30 km of the second carriageway (upgrading to a full profile) will start soon (probably in September)


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## cougar1989

I will show you some pictures from my Roadtrip trough the EU+EFTA from 15/07/13 until 19/07/13. A3 - A4


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## MichiH

zezi said:


> Picture taken where green arrow is


Have you also taken a picture of the future A1/A10 interchange?

PS: Nevertheless the pics were only shared for Pascal20a, thanks for them!


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## zezi

^^ it will be here one day, but for now no interchange. Just two overpass for future ( In background)


zezi said:


>


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## MichiH

zezi said:


> ^^ it will be here one day, but for now no interchange. Just two overpass for future ( In background)


I can't see any overpass on that pic... :?


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## darko06

MichiH said:


> I can't see any overpass on that pic... :?


He probably meant that the main route A1-A10 will be going over the projected A1 extension to Metković. So for the future A1 extension these two are overpasses, but for the main route (A1-A10) these two are underpasses.

However I am very surprised that the main route is going to B&H, not to Montenegro. Theoretically, when in about 30 years whole B&H A1 will be finished, it should be possible to reach Osijek from Zagreb via Split, Mostar and Sarajevo driving on the CRO A1-A10-B&H A1-CRO A5 without changing direction.:hahaha:


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## stickedy

The main route in not BiH, the interchange is so planned that the main route goes straight on. Currently it's not build, but that won't be a problem later.


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## zezi

MichiH said:


> I can't see any overpass on that pic... :?



:cheers:


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## MichiH

^^ I've already seen that *under*pass .


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## diegobonazzi

*sleep break*

Hi guys!
I would like to take a rest during my trip to Cavtat. Does anybody knows a cheap apartment in the area of MAKARSKA/BASKA VODA where to sleep just few hours?


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## RosenBRG2013

Sorry to jump into the conversation (but going over 200 pages of posts is a bit much...) - but does any of the highways or autobahns in Croatia go along the country's coast like the Highway 1 in California? I would love to include that into my travel plans to Croatia if one exists! Thanks!


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## ChrisZwolle

^^ Road nr. 8 is to Croatia what Highway 1 to California is (perhaps even more spectacular).


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## FiveYears

Yes, you`re right I meant that , but
just few minutes ago i heard on HRT radio reporter from Metković is talking about end of October again :dunno:


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## Pascal20a

I would say the whole motorway till Metkovic will open on 6th of November!!


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## Pascal20a

Whats your opinion?


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## x-type

30.11.


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## Pascal20a

Ok thanks


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## sponge_bob

Once the A1 opens Bosnia will have its first motorway connection to Europe. 

What is the story on the other 2 cross Sava links to the north of Bosnia from Croatia.

1. Towards Banja Luka from the A3
2. Towards Tuzla from the A3/A5 junction

and when will they be built??


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## Puležan

*A11 between Zagreb and Velika Gorica*

this is the location




Gedeon said:


> Budući da sam imal viška vremena, odlučil sam jučer pogledati tu famoznu "skakaonicu" ili "tobogan"
> 
> Zaputil sam se nakon ručka u Studentskom tramvajem do MSU-a, pa busom 268 do stajališta "Odra-željeznička stanica". To je predzadnje stajalište u prvoj zoni.
> 
> Nakon kaj se izađe sa stajališta, vide se neki radovi. Gradi se nogostup.
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> Pogled unatrag-s druge strane je busna za drugi smjer, pokraj rampe.
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> Pogled na skakaonicu odozdo. Uskoro bumo se popeli...
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> Još jednom unatrag
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> Jedan od najimpozantnijih kuteva
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> Tu rade na spoju rampe sa skakaonice, ima još posla


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## Puležan

Let's go on:


Gedeon said:


> Penjemo se...
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> Ovde bu se lepi zalet dobil, i Fićo bude išel 130
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> I prugu prema Sisku
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> Rampa prema Velikoj Gorici
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> Iznad autoceste smo. Prema Zagrebu
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> I prema Sisku, vidi se novoasfaltirani dio


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## Puležan

Gedeon said:


> Nekoliko pogleda
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> Još malo pogleda


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## Puležan

Gedeon said:


> Razdvajanje
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> Idemo prema stupu skakaonice
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> Dilatacija između betonskog i čeličnog dijela. Po struganju štrafa vidi se da čelična konstrukcija radi i po 10 centimetara sa svake strane, tak da je ovaj široka naprava za dilatiranje opravdana.
> 
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> Razdvajanje iz daljine. Desno za aerodrom, lijevo za Sisak. Ovaj čvor nema previše smisla bez dionice od autoceste.
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...


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## Puležan

Gedeon said:


> Spoj starijeg i novog
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> A-ha! Koja zgodna plaforma. Ko stvorena za SSC party :banana:. Prilično je velika, nekih 8 kvadrata.
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## Puležan

Last post :cheers:


Gedeon said:


> Naravno, huligani su i ovdje zasrali. :bash:
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> Kvaliteta je tak-tak jer sam slikal s mobitelom (nisam ni mislil da bum išel na report)
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> Posle toga sam obišel gradilište stajališta Buzin. Reportažu pročitajte u dretvi o željezničkoj infrastrukturi


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## diegobonazzi

Sorry guys I don'd understand one thing: D425 section from new A1 exit "Ploce" to Karamatići will also be opened before end of the year?


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## keber

Yes.


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## Pascal20a

Will the EU finance the Motorway to Dubrovnik?


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## toonczyk

Can you please just relax?


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## Pascal20a

I? Yes i can relax


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## x-type

Pascal20a said:


> Will the EU finance the Motorway to Dubrovnik?


no


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## Pascal20a

Why not?


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## Pascal20a

Croatia is a member of the EU


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## MichiH

^^ I guess Croatia has not yet asked the EU for funding motorways or the EU has not yet agreed the request.


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## Pascal20a

Ok thanks


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## darko06

It will be perfecly allright that EU finances the completion of Croatian motorways network, after Croatia by its own funds have build about 90% of its whole network. The Dalmatina branch of the European Motorway Network will also be a connection of Montenegro as future EU member.
Don't forget that EU had spend huge amounts of money to finance e.g. Polish, Hungarian, Slovenian or Romanian motorways. So I really don't understand a few Polish colleagues forumers here in arguing that EU shoudn't finance the completion of Croatian motorways.


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## sponge_bob

Croatia would not get as high a % as countries further east who can get 85% of the cost. Too rich.

None of the *30 priority projects* are in Croatia but the EU may part fund the 3 motorways into Bosnia as a concession instead.

As for Ten T Core routes they are mainly built, Slovenia Zagreb Serbia and Budapest Zagreb Rijeka are the core routes. Budapest Sarajevo Dubrovnik is not a Ten - T core route and neither is the coastal motorway. 

Croatia is on track for some €1bn+ a year of Cohesion and Regional funding. ( and Transport and Agriculture funding separately) Of the €8bn on offer €5bn goes to less developed regions of Croatia and if they are regions with no motorways then the cohesion funds can be used for motorways on occasion. Maybe all of Croatia is classified less developed ( income of 80% of EU average or less). 










It will all be in the partnership agreement the government sends to Brussels...it should be there by now, and published.


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## darko06

I am not speaking about Bosnia... because it's obvious that *Bosnia & Herzegovina wil not enter the EU for the next 15 years or so*. So the motorway from Sarajevo to Dubrovnik is irrelevant... as are connections from Croatia to Bosnia. In fact, Croatian A10 will be finished to the Bosnian border in a month and what do we have at the other side? Only 1,5 km of motorway and after that, 10 kms of a very narrow and curvy road to Čapljina, isn't it? Another example: Sava bridge on Croatian A5 might be finished in this year, but Bosnia didn't do its homework, isn't it?
Maybe the current socialist government in Croatia is blind for a motorway from Ston to Dubrovnik and Ćilipi, but some future governments will for sure continue to build it. *Ten kilometers per year, so be it, only with Croatian money*, if some here think that EU should finance building of motorways in Bosnia (outside the EU).
And for partnership agreements, dude, everyone knows what Bosnia wants in exchange to allow Croatia to build a motorway through Neum corridor. *Croatians don't give up when blackmailed.* Period.


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## sponge_bob

The partnership agreement ( Croatia <> EU ) is only a 7 year plan for spending EU money. 

It may include a tunnel under Neum for all I know  , Croatia has not published a version of it yet unlike other EU countries.


----------



## toonczyk

darko06 said:


> because it's obvious that *Bosnia & Herzegovina wil not enter the EU for the next 15 years or so*.


It's almost as obvious as it was in 1985 that Germany won't reunite in XX century.


----------



## Wiener.Blut

darko06 said:


> I am not speaking about Bosnia... because it's obvious that *Bosnia & Herzegovina wil not enter the EU for the next 15 years or so*. So the motorway from Sarajevo to Dubrovnik is irrelevant... as are connections from Croatia to Bosnia. In fact, *Croatian A10 will be finished to the Bosnian border in a month and what do we have at the other side? Only 1,5 km of motorway and after that, 10 kms of a very narrow and curvy road to Čapljina, isn't it? Another example: Sava bridge on Croatian A5 might be finished in this year, but Bosnia didn't do its homework, isn't it?*


There is 5km of motorway on the other side and 6 more to be opened next year, so only 5km will stay to Capljina and existing road is not that curvy at all. 

As of the Sava bridge*s *(pl.), Direction Banja Luka there is a motorway on the Bosnian side, however Croatia is not interested too much in building connection road to Croatian A3 and the bridge either. So I am not sure about homework you were talking about.


----------



## sotonsi

Bosnia & Herzegovina is effectively a protectorate of the EU anyway (though less blatantly than Kosovo). It hasn't applied for membership as it isn't able to while it remains a colony. And as part of the empire, B&H gets most of the trappings of being a member anyway.

Plus, one of the key reasons of it remaining as an EU satrapy is that full democracy will likely break up this Yugoslavia-in-miniature, with Republika Srpska voting for independence, so it is highly unlikely that Bosnia & Herzegovina will join the EU any time soon.


----------



## Puležan

A7 (Rijeka bypass-eastern section around Križišće)



zvonko said:


> Crnilo na Križišću
> 
> 
> Rubnjaci su gotovi, ograde uskoro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Napokon spojeno


----------



## Puležan

A7 (Rijeka bypass)



zvonko said:


>


----------



## Puležan

*D2 (Osijek bypass)*
- the existing 2-lane expressway is currently being upgraded to 2x2 



Rocky031 said:


> *Rušenje nadvožnjaka na Vinkovačkoj*
> 
> http://www.sib.hr/vijesti/osijek/11303-rusenje-nadvoznjaka-na-vinkovackoj.html
> 
> 5. listopada zatvorena je dionica južne osječke obilaznice od čvorišta Čepinska do iza nadvožnjaka na Vinkovačkoj.
> *U sklopu tog projekta predviđeno je i rušenje nadvožnjaka preko Vinkovačke ulice nakon čega slijedi izgradnja novog, nešto višeg, četverotračnog nadvožnjaka. Zbog tih radova na snazi je i privremena regulacija prometa, a kako izbjeći gužve pogledajte OVDJE.
> Osim toga kako bi stanovnicima Industrijske četvrti donekle bilo olakšano kretanje u zoni radova izgrađena je nova staza neposredno uz nadvožnjak na Vinkovačkoj.*
> Prema informacijama koje imamo predviđeno vrijeme radova na ovoj dionici je godinu dana, a do tada nam nema druge nego biti strpljiv i koristiti alternativne pravce. *Radove izvodi Osijek Koteks.*
> Danas smo obišli gradilište i provjerili kako napreduju radovi na rekonstrukciji nadvožnjaka. Pogledajte foto galeriju.





Rocky031 said:


>


----------



## Puležan

*D2 Osijek bypass* 


Rocky031 said:


>





Rocky031 said:


>


----------



## Puležan

*D2 Osijek bypass*



Rocky031 said:


>


----------



## Puležan

Wiener.Blut said:


> ...
> As of the Sava bridge*s *(pl.), Direction Banja Luka there is a motorway on the Bosnian side, however Croatia is not interested too much in building connection road to Croatian A3 and the bridge either. So I am not sure about homework you were talking about.


I agree that there should be built an 2x2 expressway from the border to the Okučani exit at A3, because there should be road of such quality between the two 4-lane motorways, but also the existing state road D5 is not so bad at the moment with current AADT which is around 3500. It's straight, large and passes through only one village. https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Okuč...d=QHDmSDjfgOHQgqNBWHUptA&cbp=12,338.9,,0,7.41
:cheers:


----------



## Wiener.Blut

Puležan said:


> I agree that there should be built an 2x2 expressway from the border to the Okučani exit at A3, because there should be road of such quality between the two 4-lane motorways, but also the existing state road D5 is not so bad at the moment with current AADT which is around 3500. It's straight, large and passes through only one village. https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Okuč...d=QHDmSDjfgOHQgqNBWHUptA&cbp=12,338.9,,0,7.41
> :cheers:


It is not existing road which makes problems, but the fact that Croatia is not interested in building a new bridge which shoud connect existing motorway in BiH with Croatia and A3 bypassing problematic old bridge and drive trough villages and town on Bosnian side. 

Map


----------



## sponge_bob

Puležan said:


> e existing state road D5 is not so bad at the moment with current AADT which is around 3500. It's straight, large and passes through only one village.



Fair point, that is far too low for a motorway and more so given the quality of the existing road.


----------



## Wiener.Blut

sponge_bob said:


> Fair point, that is far too low for a motorway and more so given the quality of the existing road.


As already mentioned the road is not the problem, the bridge is. 

existing bridge










... and the border crossing. Since Croatia entered EU Gradiska border crossing is the only border crossing where you can export animals and animal products from Bosnia to EU and this border crossing is too small to accommodate all the traffic, so Bosnian economy suffers. You should know that if you want to got to west, where 80% of Bosnian export goes you need to do it trough Croatia. New border crossing on the same location is impossible to build because existing bridge is in the city centre and there is no space. For that reason it is decided between BiH and Croatia to build new bridge and new connection. BiH has since built motorway from Banja Luka to Gradiska (7km from city direction west) and secured half of the money necessary for the new bridge. However Croatia "Didn't do it's homework" and it is obviously not interested to build this connection and in the same time they keep complaining about Slovenians do not want to build yet another motorway to Croatia at Gruskovje, although connecting road is enough to accommodate all traffic and there rare no villages. 

Pictures to illustrate the problem 
Border crossing Bosnian side









google map to illustrate position of the bridge and crossing inside of the town. 

Position of the new motorway on Bosnian side. 

Another problem is, in order to reach existing border crossing from the motorway you need to drive all the time trough villages on very narrow road. 



















Funny map, but it is only to get impression where Gradiska is located and how it is a bad thing for Bosnia that all traffic has to go trough local road and old bridge.


----------



## stickedy

Everything you described above - and you're absolute right about it - is in fact a problem of BiH and not of Croatia. Of course, Croatia is currently not interested in building the connection and the bridge to the border: There's no money and the pan-european corridors are the priority.

You can easily see, that Croatia is having big problems in financing its motorway plans, just look at A7 and A1. And now explain the Croatian people that there's money for building a bridge and a motorway/expressway to Croatia which has nearly zero meaning for Crotia but there's no money to expand the A1 towards Dubrovnik... That's the whole problem about it... And of course, the Croatian government "likes" the Croats in southern BiH more than the Serbs in northern BiH. That's the other side of the story...


----------



## sponge_bob

I would think the EU/EBRD would eventually fund that particular bridge by 100% and that there would be no liability for Croatia whatsoever. Maybe the project is actually parked by the EU as a carrot for 'good behaviour' in future.


----------



## Wiener.Blut

sponge_bob said:


> I would think the EU/EBRD would *eventually* fund that particular bridge by 100% and that there would be no liability for Croatia whatsoever. Maybe the project is actually parked by the EU as a carrot for 'good behaviour' in future.


eventually maybe will EU fund Croatian 50%, because BiH has already allocated money for the project.


stickedy said:


> Everything you described above - and you're absolute right about it - is in fact a problem of BiH and not of Croatia. Of course, Croatia is currently not interested in building the connection and the bridge to the border: There's no money and the pan-european corridors are the priority.


off course it is bigger problem for BiH, however you have to know that Croatia's export in Bosnia is ~2 billion $ and 500.000 Croatian citizens live in BiH, so it is not that simple as you may think.



stickedy said:


> You can easily see, that Croatia is having big problems in financing its motorway plans, just look at A7 and A1. And now explain the Croatian people that there's money for building a bridge and a motorway/expressway to Croatia which has nearly zero meaning for Crotia but there's no money to expand the A1 towards Dubrovnik... That's the whole problem about it...


it doesnt have zero meaning to Croatia, economy of Croatia and Bosnia are intertwined.
And if you would look like that international connectiuon would never been built. Why would than Austria build connections toward Budapest, Maribor and Ljubljana? Domestic traffic on those routes are very low.



stickedy said:


> And of course, the Croatian government "likes" the Croats in southern BiH more than the Serbs in northern BiH. That's the other side of the story...


Not only Serbs are using this crossing, that is stupid argument.

Here is the map, having to border crossing for animal products on 1000km border and one crossing is not functional at all is very bad for Bosnian weak economy, off course EU doesn't care why would they.


----------



## stickedy

Wiener.Blut said:


> Croatia's export in Bosnia is ~2 billion $ and 500.000 Croatian citizens live in BiH, so it is not that simple as you may think.


I know that, it's something between 10 and 15% afair of all exports. Nonetheless, currently it's not a problem of Croatia since Croatian goods can flow to BiH without problems...



> it doesnt have zero meaning to Croatia, economy of Croatia and Bosnia are intertwined.


Yeah, but not in that great manner that they tied together with no limit.



> And if you would look like that international connectiuon would never been built. Why would than Austria build connections toward Budapest, Maribor and Ljubljana? Domestic traffic on those routes are very low.


It's not about domestic traffic, it's about traffic in general. And traffic on D5 is low, so no need for that new motorway on Croatian side. Countries in general don't expand their networks towards borders where it's not needed. Just have a look at the German-Czech border back before the Iron Curtain falls. There was no good road connection on neither side of the border. Then traffic increased and the roads where built...

That's also a point where the Pan-European Corridors come into action: The EU wants the countries to build a decent connection for example to boost the ecomony. Connections which wouldn't be built without some kind of pressure (because it's sometimes useless for the building countries). An example is Croatian A5 to Hungary. This wouldn't be built if it's not a corridor. At least not now... If it makes sense? Another story 



> Not only Serbs are using this crossing, that is stupid argument.


Of course it's stupid! The whole ethnic thing on Balkan is stupid...



> Here is the map, having to border crossing for animal products on 1000km border and one crossing is not functional at all is very bad for Bosnian weak economy, off course EU doesn't care why would they.


And Croatia doesn't care neither. Why should they?


----------



## Wiener.Blut

stickedy said:


> I know that, it's something between 10 and 15% afair of all exports. Nonetheless, currently it's not a problem of Croatia since Croatian goods can flow to BiH without problems...?


not really, Croats have the same problems, because Croats use the same bridge and the same crossing. 


stickedy said:


> Yeah, but not in that great manner that they tied together with no limit.


well during the war there was almost no economy at all, do we have to strive to that? We are talking here about improving things not destroying. 


stickedy said:


> It's not about domestic traffic, it's about traffic in general. And traffic on D5 is low, so no need for that new motorway on Croatian side. Countries in general don't expand their networks towards borders where it's not needed. Just have a look at the German-Czech border back before the Iron Curtain falls. There was no good road connection on neither side of the border. Then traffic increased and the roads where built...


There is no need for motorway, there is a need for bridge. The traffic volume on road leading toward eastern/southern neighbours of Austria was low, however Austria built roads before the volume increased. 


stickedy said:


> That's also a point where the Pan-European Corridors come into action: The EU wants the countries to build a decent connection for example to boost the ecomony. Connections which wouldn't be built without some kind of pressure (because it's sometimes useless for the building countries). An example is Croatian A5 to Hungary. This wouldn't be built if it's not a corridor. At least not now... If it makes sense? Another story


I am not sure whither EU has the same policy when Bosnia comes in the action. 



stickedy said:


> Of course it's stupid! The whole ethnic thing on Balkan is stupid...


And we souldnt support it. 


stickedy said:


> And Croatia doesn't care neither. Why should they?


Becuase they have interest in stronger Bosnian economy, because, they have interest in their stronger economy, because 500k their citizen live in Bosnia.


----------



## sponge_bob

The entire history of the EU is that it was founded so that _economic interdependence on each other_ would stop Germany and France going to war again and trashing the continent. 

This is, of course, equally true in other parts of Europe.


----------



## Wiener.Blut

at the same time interdependence of Croatia and Bosnia should be lowered, I dont get it.


----------



## sponge_bob

It is more important for Bosnia/EU than for Croatia itself all the same.


----------



## KHS

Chief engineer of HAC says A1 section Vrgorac - Ploče should be opened by November 15th.
+ D425 expressway to Port of Ploče






:cheers:


----------



## passat1717

UPDATE, highway A1, section* Vrgorac-Ploče*


Mali update sa gradilišta Vrgorac-Ploče, AC i BC... za početak malo već izgrađene BC... gdje završava 2+2 i prelazi u 1+1, kod budućeg čvora Nikolac...



















...malo sjevernije kod budućeg odmorišta "Ploče" koje je "ukopano" u sred bivšeg brda...




























... pravac između odmorišta i tunela Karamatići iz daljine...










... južni ulaz u tunel Karamatići...










... poviše sjevernog izlaza, vide se radovi gdje je dosad završavala BC i spajala se na lokalnu cestu, tu se na žalost neće srediti čvor nego se uređiva nastavak BC prema naplatnima, par stotina metara iza...










... lokalna cesta koja je bila nastavak izgrađene BC, taj dio više neće biti u f-ji...


----------



## passat1717

... pogled s visine, spoj starog korištenog dijela BC prema naplatnima ...










još jedna...










... naplatne Karamatići...










... dalje...



















... poviše Kobiljače, južni ulaz u posljednju tunel BC prije spoja sa AC...




























... evo nas s "druge strane" tunela kod čvora Ploče  ...


----------



## passat1717

... čvor Ploče...




























... nadvožnjak preko AC prema GP crveni grm...










... pogled s nadvožnjaka prema jugu, vidi se čvor Ploče...










... i prema sjeveru...




























... sad smo južnije od čvora Ploče, okret prema jugu...










... i prema sjeveru, čvor Ploče ... 










... toliko za sada... :cheers2:


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## Pascal20a

When will we see the signage on this new Motorway strech?


----------



## Verso

Who the hell would know that, and stop asking questions all the time.


----------



## KHS

:colgate:


----------



## threo2k

No words, this is absolutely impressing. Cant wait do drive here.. 

Massive #respect


----------



## bzbox

BC to Ploče will have a lot of traffic due to extension of A1 to Dubrovnik, but will it still be worth after that?

Btw, how is duplicating of BC Dugopolje - Split going on?


----------



## zezi

bzbox said:


> BC to Ploče will have a lot of traffic due to extension of A1 to Dubrovnik, but will it still be worth after that?



I don't think it will have much traffic for a long long time. At least until economy recovers in this region.





bzbox said:


> Btw, how is duplicating of BC Dugopolje - Split going on?


In February should be finished.


----------



## x-type

Pascal20a said:


> When will we see the signage on this new Motorway strech?


here you are


----------



## threo2k

nice!!


----------



## bzbox

No road number and E65 on sign to Ploče/Dubrovnik? Maybe because it's only temporary...


----------



## Puležan

x-type said:


> here you are





bzbox said:


> No road number and E65 on sign to Ploče/Dubrovnik? Maybe because it's only temporary...


On the blue sign there should stay this:








because it's the official and permanent name of that road. Only the Dubrovnik may be considered temporary, but it will stay like this for another 20-30 years...

On the other hand, it's interesting that Ploče exit is signed as an interchange, although it's an exit (trumpet-style). In Croatia only motorway-to-motorway interchanges are signed with that sign, with the exception of Sv. Helena interchange (but it will eventually become motorway-to-motorway junction: A4/A12). For example, Zaprešić is signed as an exit, although it's an cloverleaf interchange to a 4-lane state road and also Dugopolje is signed as an exit, which is an exit to a 4-lane expressway, exactly like Ploče :dunno:


----------



## keber

Is definition of expressway any clearer now? Are blue 2+2 roads regarded as expressways or not? Looking at Zadar II interchange there is a sign only for end of motorway, nothing else. And for Sv. Helena not even that.


----------



## x-type

Pule&#158;an;108544651 said:


> . On the other hand, it's interesting that Ploče exit is signed as an interchange, although it's an exit (trumpet-style). In Croatia only motorway-to-motorway interchanges are signed with that sign, with the exception of Sv. Helena interchange (but it will eventually become motorway-to-motorway junction: A4/A12). For example, Zaprešić is signed as an exit, although it's an cloverleaf interchange to a 4-lane state road and also Dugopolje is signed as an exit, which is an exit to a 4-lane expressway, exactly like Ploče :dunno:


 the newest thing is that Kosnica at A3 is also signed as interchange, not an exit anymore.


----------



## x-type

keber said:


> Is definition of expressway any clearer now? Are blue 2+2 roads regarded as expressways or not? Looking at Zadar II interchange there is a sign only for end of motorway, nothing else. And for Sv. Helena not even that.


Sv. Helena - Cugovec has sign "motorway end" and "beginning of expressway" , they have installed it this summer. Also I'm pretty sure that Zadar connector has those signs too, but I don't claim it since I haven't driven that road for few years.


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## darko06

Kosnica and Zapresic are interchanges, not exits, but to divided highways, not to freeways (expressways, motorways). Zadar 2 and Ploče are interchanges too, as is (razcep) Draženci, in spite of the fact that from this interchange motorway goes only in direction Maribor, where in both other directions (Gruškovje, Ormož) there are common nondivided roads.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*A11*

August 2011 imagery.


----------



## Pascal20a

Is a exact opening date of the A1 known?


----------



## MichiH

^^ Hell no! 8th November 2113


----------



## Pascal20a

Ok i think 23rd of November


----------



## KHS

Is this a game? 

I'm betting on 25/11/2013


----------



## keber

Pascal20a said:


> Is a exact opening date of the A1 known?


I recommend you to go there and camp there to see that opening live as you look like to be very nervous about that opening. You should definitely not miss that. I'm sure no Croat anywhere is even close so eager to see A1 opening as you are.


----------



## KHS




----------



## Verso

This guy is worse than Radi.


----------



## Puležan

A1+A10 (Ploče interchange-BIH border)



mario_zadar said:


> Evo malo fotografija novosagrađenog dijela autoputa
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us
> 
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us


:cheers:


----------



## threo2k

AMAZING!!!! massive #respect from Norway!


----------



## niskogradnja

Bravo, Croatia! :applause:


----------



## bzbox

Kula Norinska exit is no. 33? Isn't this exit on motorway A10? Shouldn't it be numbered as 1?


----------



## x-type

bzbox said:


> Kula Norinska exit is no. 33? Isn't this exit on motorway A10? Shouldn't it be numbered as 1?


that's true. we are debating it at our subforum.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

French style exit numbering. Not totally weird considering A10 has only one exit.


----------



## darko06

Croatian transportation minister Dr Siniša Hajdaš Dončić stated yesterday evening for state television network (first channel) that the analysis is shown an exceeding of 33% from initial costs for Dugopolje-Ploče motorway.

German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung reported yesterday in its online edition that the costs for new Hamburg Opera costs are ballooned from cca 250 mio Euros to cca 850 mio Euros.


----------



## MichiH

darko06 said:


> Croatian
> German


You are comparing apples and oranges. You should not compare the Banana Republic of Germany with a modern republic like Croatia. Germany is incapable to execute major projects: S21, BER and many other infrastructure projects are also a mess. Postponing and costs increasing are common.


----------



## darko06

A few days ago I watched a tv-show on ZDF about Mr. Wulff (the Altbundespraesident) and Mr. Hoeness. One of participants said something like this: Look, Mr. Wulff is accused for about 700 Euros, and Mr. Hoeness will be accused for about few millions Euros of tax fraud. (Ok, in Croatia exists a person which is very similar to Mr. Hoeness, a recent executive (vice)president of richest Croatian soccer club.) But look, on BER there are a few billions of Euro money which is missing. Who will be responsible for this?

What is the red line of this and former comparison? I really didn't even try to imply that Croatia is modern and Germany is "Banana Republic". But the information about exceeding of costs on most southeastern Dalmatina part (if true, they didn't repeat it since then) is significant, because I was expected that the overall costs will be at least doubled (100% increase). I think that some of politicians indeed are responsible for pumping the cost, however the Port of Ploče is now connected with the whole European motorway network. Believe me, were the leftists won the 2003 general election, the end of motorway will be at Dugopolje.

EDIT: Why was I using examples from Germany? Because in the area of arguing, news corresponding and court judging I believe that Germany is a couple of light years farther than Croatia. In German tv-debattes people are arguing, not brutally attacking one eachother, for example.


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> French style exit numbering. Not totally weird considering A10 has only one exit.


actually it is more German. as far as i saw French system don't put numbers on motorway intersections, only on exits. D and HR number intersections too.
imo they should have avoided totso there and make A1 finishing at border crossing, and leave number A10 for motorway from Ploče/Metković to Dubrovnik. this is going to be the first totso in HR.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

I meant they picked the French system of continuing the exit numbering sequence of a nearby intersecting motorway. The way how they are signed is indeed more German.


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> I meant they picked the French system of continuing the exit numbering sequence of a nearby intersecting motorway. The way how they are signed is indeed more German.


but Germans have the same system of numbering  (i haven't actually meant appereance  )


----------



## sotonsi

Do the Germans have that? a quick look suggests that spurs don't carry on numbering from parents in the way that France (often) does

Not that the French do it all the time, but it's surprisingly common, applying even when the routes don't really seem to be bifurcating.


----------



## x-type

of course they have it


----------



## sotonsi

x-type said:


> of course they have it


Here's that junction - 27 on the A38, 19 on the A9.

I don't see how that is what we're actually talking about - Chris Z has explained explicitly what he meant, addressing your misinterpretations.

This is what we're talking about. OK, the French don't typically number interchanges (unlike Croatia), just exits. Junctions on the (northern section of) A35 continue where the A4 left off - counting up with the next one at 49.


----------



## x-type

but as i said at the previous page - this is just a mistake. maybe they've made it on purpose since we cannot expect continuing the construction to the south soon.
( i didn't know that Chris was referring to that thing of continuing the numbers on 2 different motorways after intersection, sorry)


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> French style exit numbering. Not totally weird considering A10 has only one exit.


If it has its own number, it should also have its own interchange numbering system.



darko06 said:


> Port of Ploče is now connected with the whole European motorway network.


The port of Ploče doesn't really need a motorway to Zagreb, it needs a motorway to Budapest.


----------



## celevac

Verso said:


> The port of Ploče doesn't really need a motorway to Zagreb, it needs a motorway to Budapest.


In theory, I agree, but I don't see any EU transit from Hungary to Croatia leaving the EU, going through BiH and re-entering the EU (including a whole load of customs) in order to reach Ploče. A highway from Metković to Sarajevo and further to Slavonia would be convenient, especially for passenger traffic, but not for cargo.


----------



## volodaaaa

Is not the Koper port more important and better accessible to EU traffic than Ploće? I don't mean it offensive, just being curious.


----------



## darko06

Verso said:


> ...The port of Ploče doesn't really need a motorway to Zagreb, it needs a motorway to Budapest.


Shoud I remark now that the port of Koper urgently needs a railway connection with the port of Trieste instead building a very expensive more than half underground second railway line to Divača?hno:


----------



## darko06

volodaaaa said:


> Is not the Koper port more important and better accessible to EU traffic than Ploće? I don't mean it offensive, just being curious.


I mentioned Ploče just to mark the place from where you can now travel toward the Western Europe. Of course that the Port of Koper is better suited for let's say Slovak needs than Ploče (at least you don't have to exit the EU only to enter it later if travel by rail), but logically, to improve the transport lines from Port of Koper to Bratislava, it would be better and cheaper to make railway to Trieste instead of drilling expensive tunnels. You see, even the EU didn't want to finance this megalomaniac Slovene project, as can be found on the internet. And don't forget that the average Croat taxpayer will pay every km from Ploče to Zagreb, not the EU funds.


----------



## Verso

celevac said:


> In theory, I agree, but I don't see any EU transit from Hungary to Croatia leaving the EU, going through BiH and re-entering the EU (including a whole load of customs) in order to reach Ploče. A highway from Metković to Sarajevo and further to Slavonia would be convenient, especially for passenger traffic, but not for cargo.


You're right, I didn't think of that. But from Zagreb, Rijeka is much closer, so I doubt Ploče is important for that part of Croatia and Europe. A motorway to Sarajevo at least would be good though.



volodaaaa said:


> Is not the Koper port more important and better accessible to EU traffic than Ploće?


Yes, it's also larger than Rijeka, but smaller than Trieste.



darko06 said:


> Shoud I remark now that the port of Koper urgently needs a railway connection with the port of Trieste instead building a very expensive more than half underground second railway line to Divača?hno:


Please get lost with your constant whining, we aren't all out there to get you. The situations aren't comparable anyway. If direction Zagreb was so important for Ploče, there would already be a railway to Split.


----------



## x-type

volodaaaa said:


> Is not the Koper port more important and better accessible to EU traffic than Ploće? I don't mean it offensive, just being curious.


port Ploče is the main port for BIH (although I know they also use port Rijeka quite much). there is also famous european corridor Vc from Budapest via Sarajevo to Ploče, but personally i don't think it will ever be competent to Trieste/Koper/Rijeka trio.


----------



## celevac

There is some news about the A1/D425 between Vrgorac and Ploče

Slobodna Dalmacija (19.11.2013) speaks about a possible opening before Christmas (another month later than announced): 

http://www.slobodnadalmacija.hr/Hrv...ype/ArticleView/articleId/227429/Default.aspx

Apart from that, here's the (not too interesting) content of this article:
- There are some protests about the name of the toll station "Karamatići" which is actually located in the village of Eraci (close nearby). :lol:
- This is not the first time people have protested against names of exits etc., see Ravča 
- People argue that Karamatići is not even affected by the A1 or D425

Another article from 14.11.2013 mentioned that the opening of the highway depends on technical inspection which is currently under way and that some permission (paperwork) has not been issued yet. 

(Source: http://www.slobodnadalmacija.hr/Hrv...ype/ArticleView/articleId/227429/Default.aspx )

Concluding, I think we could realistically expect this part of the highway to open in the 2nd half of December, maybe before the holidays. 

There will be a lot more traffic than now because of the Christmas holidays, I personally think it would be important to open A10 in time to handle the Bosnian expat traffic from Germany, Austria etc. that usually takes place at that time of the year.


----------



## italystf

What motorways are currently U/C in Croatia?
Is (part of) the A1 south of Ploce already planned?


----------



## celevac

italystf said:


> What motorways are currently U/C in Croatia?
> Is (part of) the A1 south of Ploce already planned?


Ploče is the end of the "Dalmatina" (A1) for now. There are plans for an extension to Dubrovnik, however, there are no funds for this project and there are real problems with the Bosnian stretch at Neum (proposed solution: bridge or tunnel to Pelješac and highway from there to Dubrovnik or corridor through BiH which the EU doesn't really support because of the future Schengen area). 

Croatian news sources jokingly speak of 2050 when it comes to the A1 to Dubrovnik and further south.


----------



## italystf

celevac said:


> corridor through BiH which the EU doesn't really support *because of the future Schengen area).*


I don't undertand this point, sorry.



celevac said:


> Croatian news sources jokingly speak of 2050 when it comes to the A1 to Dubrovnik and further south.


And in a middle-2000s map it's signed as "opening 2008".:lol:


----------



## Pascal20a

For sure Ploce is not the end of the Dalamatina. Metkovic is the end


----------



## x-type

italystf said:


> What motorways are currently U/C in Croatia?
> Is (part of) the A1 south of Ploce already planned?


red is u/c, turqoise is upgrading from half-profile to full profile.


----------



## bewu1

What is the status of A-1 from Ploce to Dubrovnik ?


----------



## x-type

bewu1 said:


> What is the status of A-1 from Ploce to Dubrovnik ?


planned for the future.


----------



## keber

italystf said:


> I don't undertand this point, sorry.


He wants to say that EU does not support building motorway corridor connecting two parts of Croatia through short stretch of Bosnian territory because of Schengen agreement into which Croatia should enter in next few years.


----------



## italystf

keber said:


> He wants to say that EU does not support building motorway corridor connecting two parts of Croatia through short stretch of Bosnian territory because of Schengen agreement into which Croatia should enter in next few years.


I still don't understand. If HR is in Schengen, having an extraterritorial corridor connecting both part of the country instead of leaving and re-entering the Schengen zone would be more practical. So why does the EU oppose this project?
I knew that there was some opposition from Bosnia because a motorway corridor across Bosnian soil won't benefit Bosnia itself but only Croatia and the Peliesac bridge would make impossible for large ships to access Neum, the only Bosnian seaport.
Even during the Cold War the two rival Germanies managed to agree on a transit corridor between BRD and W.Berlin.


----------



## x-type

italystf said:


> the Peliesac bridge would make impossible for large ships to access Neum, the only Bosnian seaport.


1. mistake: it would not be an opstacle because of clearance of 60 metres (more than Oresund for instance)
2. mistake: Neum is not a port.
3. mistake: there have never been any ships in that bay, only boats.


----------



## keber

italystf said:


> So why does the EU oppose this project?


Those are the words of Croatian politics and media.
However I don't think EU opposes proposed corridor, it would be much illogical considering some traffic corridors in past.


----------



## volodaaaa

IMHO the most logical solution would be corridor with one exit with border checks. Someone travelling from Split to Dubrovnik would hardly notice he/she is on Bosnian territory and it would have benefits for Bosnia as well (connection to European road network).


----------



## tasosGR

But i think that they dont have the money for the project and they looking for excuses...


----------



## volodaaaa

tasosGR said:


> But i think that they dont have the money for the project and they looking for excuses...


Personally, I think the motorway bridge to Pelješac with viaducts will cost much much more. Despite I am not Croatian, I think the Pelješac is peninsula with beautiful nature and it would be the act of arrogance to put motorway right there, especially, when easier, profitable, less expensive and more nature saving solution is nearby.


----------



## bogdan10

italystf said:


> I still don't understand. If HR is in Schengen.....


Croatia is not in Schengen! From this year Croatia is in EU not in Schengen!


----------



## Pascal20a

I think the A1end at Metkoviic should end at D62. What do you think??


----------



## volodaaaa

bogdan10 said:


> Croatia is not in Schengen! From this year Croatia is in EU not in Schengen!


It was written in first conditional, thus it is very possible or certain in future.


----------



## Verso

volodaaaa said:


> IMHO the most logical solution would be corridor with one exit with border checks.


Or with an exit (or two) in Croatia before the border. It would make the corridor look more closed and safe.


----------



## burt1991

volodaaaa said:


> It was written in first conditional, thus it is very possible or certain in future.


Zero conditional. SieGrammar Heil!


----------



## x-type

volodaaaa said:


> IMHO the most logical solution would be corridor with one exit with border checks. Someone travelling from Split to Dubrovnik would hardly notice he/she is on Bosnian territory and it would have benefits for Bosnia as well (connection to European road network).


that is an option. but BIH doesn't want to hear for that. the simply see only one solution: entering to BIH at Neum and continuing to Montenegro on BIH teritory. financed by Croatia. 


tasosGR said:


> But i think that they dont have the money for the project and they looking for excuses...


it is not a secret that there is no money for new road projects. but it is not an excuse.


----------



## Pascal20a

When the A1 will be opened tp Ploce will also open the section to Metkovic


----------



## x-type

Pascal20a said:


> When the A1 will be opened tp Ploce will also open the section to Metkovic


in december. yes, A10 will have an exit on D62 to Metković.


----------



## Pascal20a

I think the A1 should connect to D62 Nova Sela


----------



## toonczyk

Pascal20a said:


> I think the A1 should connect to D62 Nova Sela


I think it should connect to Montenegro.


----------



## sotonsi

BL2 said:


> west<>east


The map doesn't match the definition...


Winston Churchill said:


> From Stettin in the Baltic to Trieste in the Adriatic an "Iron Curtain" has descended across the continent. Behind that line lie all the capitals of the ancient states of Central and Eastern Europe. Warsaw, Berlin, Prague, Vienna, Budapest, Belgrade, Bucharest and Sofia; all these famous cities and the populations around them lie in what I must call the Soviet sphere, and all are subject, in one form or another, not only to Soviet influence but to a very high and in some cases increasing measure of control from Moscow.


OK Yugoslavia, was neutral (as was Albania after 1960) but was communist. Sure the 'curtain' can go either way around it in theory, but on the central ideological spit (capitalism/communism) it was part of the east, just as Sweden, Switzerland, Ireland were non-combative parts of the west.


----------



## sponge_bob

Croatia *was* east of the Iron Curtain _when that speech_ was made in 1946 but Tito broke with the Warsaw Pact countries before 1950 and that meant that Yugoslavia was only behind it for a few years. Thereafter Yugoslavia ( along with India) were 2 of the leading 'Non Aligned' countries for the next 30 years until Tito died. Tito was like a president of the rest of the world at times. Tito also built the largest nuclear bunker in Europe for himself ( just outside Croatia) 

Meanwhile Yugoslavia opened for transit traffic after 1950 as did Bulgaria (uniquely for an Iron Curtain country) after around 1960. It was because Croatia was such an important transit location after 1950 that it has such a well developed motorway network today, the NW-E backbone was in place by 1980.

Now can we go back to roads.


----------



## BL2

sotonsi said:


> The map doesn't match the definition...
> OK Yugoslavia, was neutral (as was Albania after 1960) but was communist. Sure the 'curtain' can go either way around it in theory, but on the central ideological spit (capitalism/communism) it was part of the east, just as Sweden, Switzerland, Ireland were non-combative parts of the west.


Vienna was also behind the Iron curtain longer than Croatia, but I doubt you will refer it as "east of Iran curtain"


----------



## italystf

Yugoslavia was part of the Soviet sphere until 1948 (Tito-Stalin split), Eastern Austria (with Vienna) until 1955 (Austrian Treaty of State).
Churchill's speech was made in 1946. However he was wrong in at least one point: Eastern Germany (that became DDR in 1949) was under the Soviet sphere of influence since 1945. Thus, he was right with including Berlin (even if only half of it was) but he was wrong stating that the iron curtain starts at Stettin, that was near the Soviet-controlled Germany - P.R. of Poland border. He should rather have choosen Lubeck (Allied-controlled Germany - Soviet-controlled Germany) or, even better, Kirkeness (Norway - Soviet Union).

EDIT: And in 1946 the Venezia Giulia situation wasn't already clear because Italy ratified the peace treaty in 1947 and only in this year part of Venezia Giulia was given to Jugoslavia and the rest formed the Free Territory of Trieste that was split in 1954. So the southern end of the Iron Curtain could have been either Trieste or Fiume.


----------



## sponge_bob

Part of Croatia was free _when the famous speech was made_. 

Pula was only handed over to Tito in 1947 and as Tito fell out with the Soviets soon afterwards (in 1948) Pula _technically_ spent less time behind the Iron Curtain _*than anywhere else in the whole world*_.


----------



## celevac

On tonight's evening news (Nova Televizija) it was announced that further construction of highways will no longer be prioritized in funding. Priority will be given to the construction of a new railway system. Seems like this happens in every country where left-leaning governments are in power. >(

I think nothing will happen until this government gets replaced. Apart from that, of course, the economy needs to recover a lot before thinking about further projects. Tough times...


----------



## smokiboy

What do you mean "this happens in every country where left-leaning governments are in power"? Croatian has an excellent road and motorway network, with only a few relatively minor missing links to complete. So what's so wrong with now concentrating on the railway network?


----------



## italystf

Croatia need a railway line along the entire coast (not too close to the coast to spoil the landscape) with international connections to Trieste, Slovenia and Montenegro, Albania and Greece.


----------



## Verso

^^ I don't think it would be profitable, the area has a low population density. There used to be quite many narrow gauge railways there already.


----------



## celevac

smokiboy said:


> Croatian has an excellent road and motorway network, with only a few relatively minor missing links to complete.


There is a MAJOR link missing, namely the final part of A1 to Dubrovnik and, in my opinion, the planned but delayed new bridge at Gradiška (connecting A3 at Okučani directly to BiH E-661 Gradiška-Banja Luka). 

I am not sure that a railway network would make a lot of sense, given the existing intercity bus system across Croatia (ticket prices would not be lower than buses, construction will cost a fortune given the terrain in most places along the Dalmatian coast etc.).


----------



## italystf

Also the A7 south of Bakar is an important missing link.


----------



## x-type

italystf said:


> Croatia need a railway line along the entire coast (not too close to the coast to spoil the landscape) with international connections to Trieste, Slovenia and Montenegro, Albania and Greece.


Croatia needs to refurbush current railroad network before anything.


----------



## MichiH

zezi said:


> A11- Zagreb Velika Gorica, 10 km, finish unknown
> A11- Buševec-Lekenik, 10 km, will be finished 10/2013


The latter section is apparently postponed. Any news about completion?


----------



## zezi

No news


----------



## celevac

Here's some breaking news from the evening news program on RTL Televizija (aired just a few minutes ago):

The Pelješač bridge was decided to be favored over the tunnel and the corridor. Works could begin as early as in 2015, as a lot of analyses and paperwork needs to be done until then. Costs are estimated at € 220 million, parts of that amount should be covered by the European Union. Croatian Prime Minister Zoran Milanović decided not to comment on the topic, claiming that other people have talked too much before and nothing has happened in the end. More information is expected to be presented within the next 2 weeks.


----------



## celevac

According to this newspaper article: 

http://dubrovacki.hr/clanak/58077/kad-ce-biti-otvorena-autocesta-vrgorac-ploce

Vrgorac-Ploče will be opened on December 20! 

There will be no opening ceremony.


----------



## darko06

In the Nova TV Evening News today was announced that the missing link on A11 between Jakuševac interchange and Velika Gorica will be finished in 2014.


----------



## MichiH

^^ When was the construction started?


----------



## Pascal20a

Why only the section Vrgorac- Ploce not Vrgorac - Metkovic?


----------



## celevac

Pascal20a said:


> Why only the section Vrgorac- Ploce not Vrgorac - Metkovic?


God, please stop asking these questions! :weirdo:

To clarify for people who got it wrong: 
The section that is under construction will be opened, that is A1 to Metković interchange, D425 to Ploče and A10 to BiH border. I thought that was clear by now after dozens of pages of discussion. 

Regarding A11: That would be great news. It's a shame they don't get this done after years of doing, well, nothing really. :-/


----------



## ChrisZwolle

MichiH said:


> ^^ When was the construction started?


At least in 2008 according to Google Earth imagery. However the first kilometer west of D31 was already U/C in 2006, but it was likely part of a separate contract to construct the cloverleaf between A11 and D31.


----------



## Eulanthe

I have a question related to the A1 to Dubrovnik, but not about when it will open 

How difficult will it be to build the A1 from Zaton Doli to Dubrovnik? I've driven the current D8 and it looks like it will be challenging to construct - but that's only a very passing observation.

And another question - can someone explain why the D8 from Dubrovnik to Karasovici seems to have little to no trucks travelling there? My assumption is that most trucks are going Bari-Bar instead of travelling down through Slovenia and Croatia - but can anyone confirm?


----------



## x-type

^^
GR lorries use cheap ferries from Greece to western Europe. 
MNE lorries mostly travel through Serbia.
AL lorries are rare.

about complexity of works - well, i don't think it is more complicated than some other sections of A1 already built (southernmost, or Velebit section)


----------



## Verso

Eulanthe said:


> And another question - can someone explain why the D8 from Dubrovnik to Karasovici seems to have little to no trucks travelling there? My assumption is that most trucks are going Bari-Bar instead of travelling down through Slovenia and Croatia - but can anyone confirm?


If you go from Split to Montenegro via Neum and Dubrovnik, you cross one more border than via Čapljina and Trebinje. Could that be one of the reasons as well?


----------



## darko06

It seems that the Romanians started to use routes Trieste-Kozina-Rijeka-Zagreb-Nagykanisza and Trieste-Ljubljana-Zagreb-Nagykanisza instead of Trieste-Ljubljana-Maribor-Nagykanisza.

Beacause of a very good weather, my wife and I decided today to go to Opatija. After the lunch, she decided to go to Trieste for shopping. On motorway Rijeka-Rupa there was a plenty of trucks, mostly from BiH and MNE. At Pasjak-Starod border crossing we waited 15 minutes, because there were no open EU-EEA-CH lane. Every car with people frof outside EU they checked for a 3-5 minutes. We passed in a moment with ID cards.

In opposite direction, somewhere between Starod and Kozina, I counted three Romanian small vans with small trailers in Rijeka direction.

After Trieste, the motorway was not congested as usual, but somwhere after Ivančna Gorica I also counted four Romanian small vans and a bus, all with small trailers behind them. There were also Bulgarians, but again on Obrež, there was no open EU-EEA-CH lane?


----------



## darko06

Bingo! If Romanians go from Trieste to Pasjak, they don't need to buy Slovenian vignette.


----------



## Verso

darko06 said:


> It seems that the Romanians started to use routes Trieste-Kozina-Rijeka-Zagreb-Nagykanisza and Trieste-Ljubljana-Zagreb-Nagykanisza instead of Trieste-Ljubljana-Maribor-Nagykanisza.


Only an idiot would do that, so you're probably making it up again. Also, it's Nagykani*zs*a.


----------



## darko06

Okay.
I wrote what I saw. It is only pity that it was the night, so I was not able to make a photo proof.


----------



## Verso

Darko: Croatia cannot into V. Corridor.


----------



## darko06

It is also pity that no Slovene government wanted to build a motorway from Trieste to Pasjak (it was a condition under the Osimo treaties, wasn't it?), so you will gradually loose the vignette money, because I'm telling you: in the future there will be more Romanians on this route.


----------



## darko06

Verso said:


> Darko: Croatia cannot into V. Corridor.


V. and X. corridors are dead now. There are only TEN-T corridors from the New Year onwards.


----------



## darko06

And I forgot something else: In Croatia there is no 125 euro fee for marking a broken vehicle on motorway and another 125 euro fee for unmarking it. 
Perhaps for this reason Romanians drive through Slovenia in small groups of 5-8 vehicles.


----------



## Verso

darko06 said:


> It is also pity that no Slovene government wanted to build a motorway from Trieste to Pasjak (it was a condition under the Osimo treaties, wasn't it?), so you will gradually loose the vignette money, because I'm telling you: in the future there will be more Romanians on this route.


And why is that?



darko06 said:


> And I forgot something else: In Croatia there is no 125 euro fee for marking a broken vehicle on motorway and another 125 euro fee for unmarking it.
> Perhaps for this reason Romanians drive through Slovenia in small groups of 5-8 vehicles.


???


----------



## hofburg

darko06 said:


> It is also pity that no Slovene government wanted to build a motorway from Trieste to Pasjak (it was a condition under the Osimo treaties, wasn't it?), so you will gradually loose the vignette money, because I'm telling you: in the future there will be more Romanians on this route.


yes, because whole slovenian toll financial system depends on Romanians


----------



## Palance

Verso said:


> If you go from Split to Montenegro via Neum and Dubrovnik, you cross one more border than via Čapljina and Trebinje. Could that be one of the reasons as well?


I drove the M6 in BiH this summer from Čapljina to Trebinje. There was hardly traffic, and even less (almost zero  ) trucks on that route.


----------



## keber

darko06 said:


> so you will gradually loose the vignette money, because I'm telling you: in the future there will be more Romanians on this route.


No problem. As they are mostly very bad and dangerous drivers I'm happy not to see them on our motorways. Just yesterday there was a horrible accident on A1 with a Romanian van, two people dead and one critically injured - most probable cause was driver fell asleep and therefore went offroad into signage portal.
Those few lost vignettes won't harm overall financial situation of Dars - which is still overwhelmingly better than that of HAC or ARZ.


----------



## cinxxx

^^I or my gf will be driving on A1 on 28th and on A5 on 29th, so please take care.
Watch out for a red Fiat 500 with German plates (but don't get fooled by the plates, we are actually Romanian)


----------



## niskogradnja

darko06 said:


> And I forgot something else: In Croatia there is no 125 euro fee for marking a broken vehicle on motorway and another 125 euro fee for unmarking it.
> Perhaps for this reason Romanians drive through Slovenia in small groups of 5-8 vehicles.


So true. The Slovenians are sometimes real robbers.

http://www.24ur.com/na-avtocesti-se-je-pokvaril-avtomobil-nato-je-dars-poslal-racun.html


----------



## i15

darko06 said:


> Bingo! If Romanians go from Trieste to Pasjak, they don't need to buy Slovenian vignette.


slovenian vignette is more expensive than croatian toll?


----------



## x-type

i15 said:


> slovenian vignette is more expensive than croatian toll?


tolls in Slovenia for 4th category indeed are more expensive than in Croatia.


----------



## KHS

Everything is ready for tomorrow...






:cheers:


----------



## tonylondon

were this motorway goes to???


----------



## threo2k

Nice!  I am going to travel down to the balkans tomorrow, but not on this road.. :/


----------



## x-type

tonylondon said:


> were this motorway goes to???


it's connection from current southern terminus of A1 at Vrgorac with D8 road at Ploče at one side, and BIH border near Metković at another.


----------



## KHS

A1 is opened 




























:cheers:


----------



## Christophorus

^^ :cheers:

finally! congrats!


----------



## bzbox

So is now complete D425 2x2 or is there still two tunnels 1x1?


----------



## darko06

Unfortunately, these two tunnels remain 1x1.


----------



## keber

Congratulations for long awaited opening.


KHS said:


> A1 is opened


This is quite confusing at first look.


----------



## x-type

keber said:


> Congratulations for long awaited opening.
> 
> This is quite confusing at first look.


not only at the first look. after using it cca 5 times, i still need to watch carefuly out which lane to choose at new toll station Ježevo at A3. ok, that one is much larger than this one at A1 so it makes confusion even larger. good things are that you can pass through LKW/BUS ENC lanes with car with no problems, and that if you respect speed limit of 60 or 40 km/h you will have no rpoblems. but who does 40 km/h half kilometer before stopping?!


----------



## Puležan

^^The left sign is totally unnecessarily doubled, because yellow and green field show the same ("brzi ENC/fast ENC"). Also, instead of the right sign they should paint yellow markings on the road and put all the ENC lanes on one side (left or right), like it was few years ago on Lučko before Demerje was opened and on Ivanja Reka (and like it is in Italy), so drivers could easily see where they have to go if they're using the ENC.


----------



## KHS

*Vrgorac - Ploče*






:cheers:


----------



## Pascal20a

When will Google Maps update the Map of the A1 in Croatia?


----------



## KHS

:dunno:

You can see it on OpenStreetMap

A1 + D425 expressway


----------



## Pascal20a

And on Google Maps?


----------



## Pascal20a

How much is the time saving on the new section to Dubrovnik?


----------



## navigator11

x-type said:


> but who does 40 km/h half kilometer before stopping?!


A traffic in high season will come to a stand still, because a lot of tourists will get confused where to go,especially older people with RV


----------



## navigator11

Way to go neighbors , congrats :cheers:


KHS said:


> A1 is opened
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :cheers:


^^
Person responsible for those signs deserves to be fired Immediately :sly:


----------



## Palance

Pascal20a said:


> How much is the time saving on the new section to Dubrovnik?


This is a better subforum for you.


----------



## Pascal20a

No


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Google Earth 2013 imagery suggests they are currently not building any connecting roads on either side. It's really a bridge to nowhere, and from nowhere, it seems.


----------



## phiberoptik

Croatia is expert for building bridges between nowhere and ... nowhere.


----------



## Kese

The connection to existing A5 is obvious, the northen end leaves me perplexed.


----------



## treichard

With the recent opening of the A1-A10 motorways east of Vrgorac, what is the current route of E65 between Vrgorac in Croatia and Neum in BiH?

Does E73 now use any of the motorways in that region of Croatia?


----------



## Puležan

treichard said:


> With the recent opening of the A1-A10 motorways east of Vrgorac, what is the current route of E65 between Vrgorac in Croatia and Neum in BiH?
> 
> Does E73 now use any of the motorways in that region of Croatia?


A10 is E73:








photo by: eMetkovic.com

But I really don't know for E65, because on the Ploče interchange there's the E65 designation following A1 and A10 towards BIH, and not continuing to the D425 expressway and further south to D8 and Ploče, Neum, Dubrovnik :dunno:



Boyledd said:


>


----------



## x-type

treichard said:


> With the recent opening of the A1-A10 motorways east of Vrgorac, what is the current route of E65 between Vrgorac in Croatia and Neum in BiH?


follow A1 till the end (intersection which Polezan has just posted). from there follow the blue signe to Ploče/Dubrovnik (expressway D425), and at Ploče take D8 further to the south.


treichard said:


> Does E73 now use any of the motorways in that region of Croatia?


it should A10 and D425. probably not signed properly.


----------



## stickedy

x-type said:


> follow A1 till the end (intersection which Polezan has just posted). from there follow the blue signe to Ploče/Dubrovnik (expressway D425), and at Ploče take D8 further to the south.


That's not right. You can see on the pics of Puležan that A1 doesn't end at Ploce interchange and that both A1 and E65 lead further south. Because A1 ends between Ploce interchange and exit Novo Sela, the signing is not extended to D62 but will be applied to the A1 when it's built further south. 



> it should A10 and D425. probably not signed properly.


A10 ist signed properly. But I guess E73 will be the southern extension of A1 from A10 interchange towards Opuzen. Therefore it's not signed yet.

But it's a bit odd that D425 isn't signed anywhere at all.


----------



## keber

Puležan said:


> *A5 - Drava bridge*


Now I see why this bridge is so expensive - both pylons will be really tall and massive and even bridge itself appears to be very long. Are there some technical data available for that bridge?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The main span of the bridge is only about 200 - 250 m. You don't need a large cable-stayed type bridge for that. The main span could even be a regular box girder bridge. 

Politicians were likely enticed to support a "signature span" in the middle of nowhere.


----------



## diegobonazzi

Hi guys! Is there any hope to see in the near future A7 section Križišče-Žuta Lokva?


----------



## Pascal20a

How much money should be there for building the A1 to the Pelješac bridge?


----------



## Puležan

keber said:


> Now I see why this bridge is so expensive - both pylons will be really tall and massive and even bridge itself appears to be very long. Are there some technical data available for that bridge?


They've chosen pretty bad position for crossing the river (large width, muddy soil...) and because of that the bridge is so long (actually, the main span isn't that big, but the acces viaducts are) for flooding reasons.



ChrisZwolle said:


> Politicians were likely enticed to support a "signature span" in the middle of nowhere.


True hno:



diegobonazzi said:


> Hi guys! Is there any hope to see in the near future A7 section Križišče-Žuta Lokva?


No. Not even the Vratnik tunnel as the potential first stage, which would be very useful to avoid the serpentines on the most curvy section.


----------



## Eulanthe

Pascal20a said:


> How much money should be there for building the A1 to the Pelješac bridge?


It's pretty pointless talking about this right now, because the bridge is by no means certain. 

Croatia obviously doesn't have the money to build the A1 towards Dubrovnik anyway. If they build the bridge and the A1 to the bridge, then they're going to come under immense pressure to finish the A1 down to Dubrovnik. The EU has more or less made it clear that they don't see it as a priority, so they won't be able to access funding there.

I still think we'll see Neum bypassed by a transit road in the end. Croatia has deliberately left the end of the A1 in a place where it can go through Neum or otherwise - and I think it will stay there for the foreseeable future.


----------



## Pascal20a

But why have the A1 have no priority? ? Its part of the adratic ionic motorway to Greece


----------



## stickedy

It's not a Pan-European Corridor, that's the problem getting EU funds. And Croatia itself has currently no money for that project.


----------



## Verso

I believe he meant priority in the interchange, not priority in construction (A10 is very short anyway). D425 is just a temporary main road for Dubrovnik, but OpenStreetMap shows a similar future interchange between A1 and A10 - priority for A10.


----------



## stickedy

What do you mean? A10 is finished and the A1 to the future interchange also


----------



## Verso

It will be a TOTSO interchange (turn off to stay on). You'll have to turn right to stay on A1 instead of continuing straight forward.


----------



## OulaL

Eulanthe said:


> I still think we'll see Neum bypassed by a transit road in the end. Croatia has deliberately left the end of the A1 in a place where it can go through Neum or otherwise - and I think it will stay there for the foreseeable future.


Another question, will this happen before or after BiH joining the EU (and further on the Schengen agreement)? Or could the transit road be fenced, with no bureaucracy for inter-Croatian traffic but no access to BiH? Wouldn't that be a pity...


----------



## darko06

OulaL said:


> Another question, will this happen before or after BiH joining the EU (and further on the Schengen agreement)? Or could the transit road be fenced, with no bureaucracy for inter-Croatian traffic but no access to BiH? Wouldn't that be a pity...


Let's do some math.

Serbian politicians claim nowadays that their country can do the negotiation process in four years, and they need additional two years to enter the EU, so six years.
Bosnia and Herzegovina didn't do the first step: to make a formal bid to enter the EU, where Serbia made this step at the end of 2009. So, four more years. 
If BiH is in position to technically apply for entering EU today, in an optimistic scenario it will enter the EU not before the year 2024.

Really, B&H is not in position to apply today because of "Sejdić & Finci v. Bosnia & Herzegovina" case (Wikipedia). If they apply, they risk a yearly long freezing of their bid. Conclusively, it would be fair to say that B&H would enter EU in year 2030 at earliest.

Position of B&H politicians about the Neum is somewhat confused, but they all mutually agree that B&H should keep some kind of control of this "fenced" corridor, what EU cannot accept. Finally, EU consultants made a study about connecting the Dubrovnik exclave with the rest of EU a few months ago where they stated that a fully fenced and surveillance-made corridor will cost about two thirds of the price of Pelješac bridge.

Sapienti sat.


----------



## sponge_bob

darko06 said:


> Finally, EU consultants made a study about connecting the Dubrovnik exclave with the rest of EU a few months ago where they stated that a fully fenced and surveillance-made corridor will cost about two thirds of the price of Pelješac bridge.
> 
> Sapienti sat.


If the EU insisted on (someone ...was it the Croatian transport ministry??) hiring consultants to examine the relative cost of the bridge over a fenced corridor it is because _that is precisely what the EU is minded to fund_. 

Your points on accession processes are noted but you left out Montenegro which is likely to enter the EU sooner than B&H and Albania which will also follow at some stage, probably at the same time as Bosnia and Macedonia. I cannot see any new country making it into the EU before 2020 and it is possible that Montenegro could get in ahead of Serbia by a few years as there are no territorial disputes between Montenegro and its neighbours that could complicate matters, as was the case between Slovenia and Croatia for example.


----------



## stickedy

Montenegro will surely enter before Serbia. The accession process of Montenegro is already in an advanced state, screening of all chapters are completed. Montenegro has to make many changes to it's law to be compatible to EU laws, but since all parties in Montegro are pro-EU (at least as far as I know), there should be no real problem to fullfill that. I expect Montenegro to join in 2018 if nothing serious happens.


----------



## stickedy

Verso said:


> It will be a TOTSO interchange (turn off to stay on). You'll have to turn right to stay on A1 instead of continuing straight forward.


That's a rather technical question. In fact the future interchange will be built in a curvy part of the motorway. So you will have to turn right to go on A1 and turn left to go to A10...


----------



## Eulanthe

stickedy said:


> Montenegro will surely enter before Serbia. The accession process of Montenegro is already in an advanced state, screening of all chapters are completed. Montenegro has to make many changes to it's law to be compatible to EU laws, but since all parties in Montegro are pro-EU (at least as far as I know), there should be no real problem to fullfill that. I expect Montenegro to join in 2018 if nothing serious happens.


Two big problems in the way : 

1) Russians have a lot of influence in Montenegro, and they own a considerable amount of things there. They won't want to give up or lose that influence, particularly as it's one of the few 'nice' places in Europe that they can access easily. 

2) Their Prime Minister (or has he resigned again? I never keep track of what he's doing...) has a considerable amount to lose by Montenegro becoming a modern EU state. Montenegro isn't a mafia state, but still, I don't see them joining the EU anytime soon for that reason. 

I can't see Montenegro joining this decade - not unless Croatia convinces Germany that they absolutely need Montenegro in. Of course, if the opposition in Montenegro actually wins an election (highly unlikely...) - then things might change. 



> Another question, will this happen before or after BiH joining the EU (and further on the Schengen agreement)? Or could the transit road be fenced, with no bureaucracy for inter-Croatian traffic but no access to BiH? Wouldn't that be a pity...


No-one really knows. Croatia needs a transit route sooner rather than later, but with the road on Pelješac being absolutely unsuitable for trucks and no money to spend on upgrading it, combined with the very unclear legality of building the bridge to Pelješac in the first place - then it seems that a corridor route is the only option.

For me, the most sane approach would be to build a border crossing either side of the entrance to Neum on the A1 corridor. Traffic could enter Neum at that point - or they could enter the transit road without border formalities. The road would be sealed with fences/etc, but BiH would have the right to police it as appropriate. The road would also be tolled, with the tolls going to BiH as payment for the corridor. 

Croatia would monitor the border electronically, using things such as numberplate recognition and technology to automatically detect stopped cars. It's pretty simple to imagine - the system would be automatically designed so that anyone suspicious would be directed to the border crossing. 

Simple, cost effective and keeps everyone happy. As I understand it, the High Commissioner would be able to put such a system in place if they can't agree among themselves?

Having said this, I wish someone could explain why Klek/Zaton Doli isn't a border crossing for commercial goods.


----------



## stickedy

Yeah, the High Commissioner could make something like that happen, but I would be very surprised if he would do something like this. The position of the High Commissioner was created to make sure that the people in BiH live together in peace and that no entity or the central state make laws that would make that peace disapperar. It's not his duty to bother with something like a transit corridor.

Anyway, the situation is pretty simple: Croatia needs a connection to Dubrovnik and BiH doesn't need a transit corridor through its territory. So, you can easily guess that the demands of BiH are pretty high to allow such a project. Since BiH hasn't any, it's most likely about money... And Croatia hasn't any either.

However, no country in this world would rely on a transit corridor if the connection could also be realised on its own territory. So that bridge will be the solution to be made.


----------



## Eulanthe

The problem is that I'm not convinced that Croatia really wants this bridge too. It will involve a fight with BiH at the international level, and if the result is that Croatia has to build the bridge even higher / build an expensive tunnel instead, then it simply won't happen. 

I'm absolutely convinced that Croatia has been insisting on the bridge simply because they know that BiH will block it at all costs - so they can avoid the issue of what to do with the road further south as a result. They could surely come to some agreement over the transit road without much fuss - but that would mean Croatia coming under intense pressure to finish the road to Dubrovnik. 

I know a lot of fuss is made about tourist traffic, but having visited Dalmatia in May and seeing the place quite empty - is there much point in spending a huge amount of money for what is 3 months of the year?


----------



## sponge_bob

The roads on the far side of the bridge on the peninsula are dreadful in summer and building a motorway from the south side of the bridge to Dubrovnik would be extremely expensive if one did build that bridge. Certainly more than the bridge would cost.

But the good news is that Croatia, relative to its population, has an excellent motorway network overall. On a per capita basis for a country of 4m people probably the best network in South Eastern and indeed Eastern Europe despite the problems in high summer.

Portugal has motorways that only carry Motorway volumes of traffic in July and August ( north of 10-12k AADT) and drop below 5000 AADT for most of the other 10 months of the year. This is a rather sub optimal allocation of scarce funds. 

Croatia was also rather clever with Half profile long tunnels, I concede they are a nuisance in July/August but they are fine for 10 months of the year and save a fortune that can be spent on flatter sections to the far end of the Slavonian plain from Zagreb. 

Best fly the potential 'traffic' right in and maybe that is why substantially upgrading Dubrovnik Airport has been a greater priority in recent years. 

Overall Croatia has not done much wrong given its population and resources, apart from the squabble over access to Neum. 

But do remember Denmark effectively threatened to block the entire Baltic Sea when they built the Oresund Bridge so it ain't just Croatia starts these squabbles.  

I also feel that Eulanthe has carefully described what will happen in the end.


----------



## Eulanthe

For me, Neum is all about being pragmatic. Yes, the bridge/expressway solution to the D8 at Zaton Doli will be much faster in summer. But if we look at it logically, it's going to cost a minimum of 50 Kuna for the bridge/expressway combination, and perhaps even more. The Krk bridge costs 17.50kn each way for a bridge that has obviously repaid construction costs - so assuming 30kn for the bridge to Pelješac is on the very low side. 

But let's assume 50kn for the bridge and the expressway to Zaton Doli. For 10 months of the year, it will be mostly Croatians using that route - are they really going to pay 50kn when the alternative route is just as easy? Of course not - they will just go through Neum. With Croatia joining the EU, there will even be the motivation to go through Neum to buy certain goods cheaper, too. 

All in all, I don't see the economics adding up at all for the construction of the Pelješac bridge. If the EU comes up with the money, then perhaps - but it will be a bridge to nowhere. For now, it's best just to leave the A1 ending at the A10 and do nothing for the next decade. Croatia doesn't really need the bridge - and the EU doesn't appear to be that bothered about it.


----------



## Ypenhof

What about the option to create a tunnel under Neum, just under the surface of the current road?


----------



## definitivo

...once, someone said something about the Balkans... area code for BIH is +387, there is second area code +388 which is used by Europe Wide Service - European Telephony Numbering Space...also area codes +383 and +384 are unallocated officialy...BIH can not survive as one country, and will be divided into two parts...southern part of BIH, through which will pass the A1 highway, is mostly populated by Croats...nothing is accidental... when the area codes at Balkans will have their rightful owners, then will be proceed construction of the A1 highway, but until then this is empty talk...

...from 01.01.2015. Kosovo will use the +383 area code...( next is ? )...


----------



## Festin

Why do you expect e free ride through Bosnia? 
In a future within 20-3 years all of balkan will be integrated in EU if we dont have a new war by then or something else ruining it. 

Is it not just easier to build a motorway to the border at Neum, let bosnia build their short motorway and then finish the last one to border with Montenegro.

At the border with Neum you can build 10-20 pass controlls to make the traffic go faster. Would probably be a lot cheaper and easier.

Of course I dont know the politic situation down there but this was just my own opinion...


----------



## Eulanthe

The problem is with commercial goods - unless BiH and the EU can come to an agreement on transit, the goods would have to be cleared out of the EU and cleared back into the EU. The EU seems remarkably unwilling to negotiate on this - but they don't have any better ideas.

For me, the most sensible approach is to come up with a solution that allows goods to stay within the EU for customs purposes provided the trucks are adequately sealed and the transit time is within reason.


----------



## JackFrost

Eulanthe said:


> The problem is with commercial goods - unless BiH and the EU can come to an agreement on transit, the goods would have to be cleared out of the EU and cleared back into the EU. The EU seems remarkably unwilling to negotiate on this - but they don't have any better ideas.
> 
> For me, the most sensible approach is to come up with a solution that allows goods to stay within the EU for customs purposes provided the trucks are adequately sealed and the transit time is within reason.


well, i dont know about trucks, but this is certainly no problem for railway shipments, and should be therefore -i guess- neither a problem for trucks. for example, an austria-greece shipment through serbia/macedonia is a normal EU-EU shipment without any complication.


----------



## Verso

I have just one thing to say about this Neum problem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx1_6F-nCaw


----------



## stickedy

Eulanthe said:


> The problem is that I'm not convinced that Croatia really wants this bridge too. It will involve a fight with BiH at the international level, and if the result is that Croatia has to build the bridge even higher / build an expensive tunnel instead, then it simply won't happen.


How do you come to the conclusion that Croatia violates any right if it builds that bridge? That's only something BiH argued. The situation is pretty clear, the bridge is built on national Croatian territory. If Croatia wants, the could forbit travelling to Neum by sea without problem since it's no international waters. And the planned bridge is high enough anyway.


----------



## Verso

stickedy said:


> If Croatia wants, the could forbit travelling to Neum by sea


You're wrong, they must allow free passage regardless of whether the waters are international or not.


----------



## stickedy

Verso said:


> You're wrong, they must allow free passage regardless of whether the waters are international or not.


Not in internal waters (landwards of baseline). The state has full sovereignity there and there is no right for innocent passage there. If Croatia decides to fill the sea before Neum with stones, then BiH has no legal actions against it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_waters


----------



## sotonsi

stickedy said:


> Yeah, the High Commissioner could make something like that happen, but I would be very surprised if he would do something like this. The position of the High Commissioner was created to make sure that the people in BiH live together in peace and that no entity or the central state make laws that would make that peace disapperar.


For peace, read "one state" - even a peaceful democratic split would be opposed by the High Representative as the aim is to stop war by continuing the main cause of the wars in the 90s (a lack of a right to self-determination), and to promote democracy by not allowing it to truly exist. :nuts:


----------



## sponge_bob

It is an international strait, that is all. The Bosporus Strait is inside Turkey but Russian or Romanian ships may transit it. It had 2 bridges crossing it with a third under construction. _The only issue is the height of the bridge above the water. _

The Messina strait is inside Italy and is also an International Strait. Ships can transit international straits inside other countries, way it has been for a long time. 

If Croatia build a bridge as high above the sea as the First Bosphoros bridge or of the proposed Messina bridge then there will be no problem at all. The first Bosphoros bridge is 64m above sea level and is the benchmark height for such structures. The Oresund bridge is 57m up on the main spans but there is a tunnel section under a bit of it and most ships into the Baltic pass over the tunnel.

Has anyone proposed a tunnel instead of a bridge?????


----------



## x-type

sponge_bob said:


> It is an international strait, that is all. The Bosporus Strait is inside Turkey but Russian or Romanian ships may transit it. It had 2 bridges crossing it with a third under construction. _The only issue is the height of the bridge above the water. _
> 
> The Messina strait is inside Italy and is also an International Strait. Ships can transit international straits inside other countries, way it has been for a long time.
> 
> If Croatia build a bridge as high above the sea as the First Bosphoros bridge or of the proposed Messina bridge then there will be no problem at all. The first Bosphoros bridge is 64m above sea level and is the benchmark height for such structures. The Oresund bridge is 57m up on the main spans but there is a tunnel section under a bit of it and most ships into the Baltic pass over the tunnel.
> 
> Has anyone proposed a tunnel instead of a bridge?????


projected bridge has clearance of 60 metres. first solution had 50 metres, but BIH put an objection that transatlantic cruisers will not be able to sail in Neum. they obviously didn't pay attention that shallow sea could be obstacle, too.


----------



## zezi

smokiboy said:


> @ zezi, thanks. It would be nice if they could link A11 to at least the D224.
> 
> But I wonder, is there is a demand for a full motorway to Petrinja / Sisak area? Seems to me that without a firm commitment from RS/BiH to build a motorway to Banja Luka and later to Zenica, then linking with Sarajevo, that this motorway (A11) will have little usage.


There isnt!
AADT is about 10000 from Velika Gorica to Sisak/Petrinja on existing road.
But road have low speed limits cause it is passing through urban areas.
New road is necessary but not motorway for now.

Banja Luka is connected vith motorway via Gradiška with Zagreb and Beograd so there is no need for A11 to BiH border. And between Sisak and Banja Luka there are no larger urban area that requires motorway


----------



## smokiboy

So why do think they are building it as a motorway?


----------



## zezi

HAC as motorway operator have income from tolls and from fuel tax, and at that time when constuction begain was more capable getting loan from banks.


----------



## x-type

smokiboy said:


> So why do think they are building it as a motorway?


refinery in Sisak, which causes risen traffic of lorries with tank trailers and dangerous loads.


----------



## smokiboy

Could'nt the lorries use A3 to get around?


----------



## x-type

smokiboy said:


> Could'nt the lorries use A3 to get around?


they could have, but that route is longer and goes through natural preserve, so there are endeavors to move traffic to other routes.


----------



## smokiboy

I think that a better route in that region is: Ljubljana - Karlovac - Glina - Novi Grad - Banja Luka.


----------



## x-type

smokiboy said:


> I think that a better route in that region is: Ljubljana - Karlovac - Glina - Novi Grad - Banja Luka.


what would it serve to actually?


----------



## celevac

x-type said:


> what would it serve to actually?


Makes no sense. 

The only really good addition to the motorway network would be an expressway (without traffic lights etc.) from Karlovac to Bihać, along the D1. Maybe even an improvement of the narrow, curvy state road from D1 to Maljevac/Velika Kladuša border. There is a lot of traffic on that road, especially on weekends when loads of Bosnians travel from "weekday home" to "weekend home", i.e. mostly from Austria or Slovenia to Bosnia. Some kind of upgrade and village bypass would be needed. 

I am aware of the fact that there is no money and no political will for anything like this right now. There will probably never be anything close to that within the next 50 years. Just trying to imagine where road construction would make sense. :cheers:


----------



## Puležan

*D2 Osijek southern bypass*

Currently the second carriageway is being built, on some sections it's almost finished. When completed, it will be a 2x2 grade separated expressway.



LAMPAŠ8 said:


>





LAMPAŠ8 said:


>


----------



## Puležan

...


LAMPAŠ8 said:


>





LAMPAŠ8 said:


>


----------



## Puležan

LAMPAŠ8 said:


> Sa nadvožnjaka Rosinjača u smjeru istok-zapad prema Našicama





LAMPAŠ8 said:


> Nastavak radova za rasvjetu


...


----------



## Puležan

LAMPAŠ8 said:


> Radovi na nadvožnjacima Josipovac i Višnjevac


:cheers:


----------



## Pascal20a

What is the actual status of the motorway near Sredanci in construction?


----------



## Puležan

Pascal20a said:


> What is the actual status of the motorway near Sredanci in construction?


It's under construction right now. You can see the works on google maps: toll station, Svilaj exit, border crossing facilities. Works on the Sava bridge haven't started yet.


----------



## Pascal20a

And are there pics of section? What is happen on the bosnian side? When will it be finished?


----------



## Puležan

^^No pictures from the croatian side. You can ask on the BIH forum about their section. I think it cannot be finished before 2015/2016, because the construction of the bridge hasn't started yet.


----------



## Pascal20a

Which will the lastest exit of this section?


----------



## MichiH

^^ http://old.wikimapia.org/#lat=45.1217335&lon=18.3179212&z=17&l=5&m=o


----------



## MichiH

Puležan said:


> *D2 Osijek southern bypass*
> 
> Currently the second carriageway is being built, on some sections it's almost finished. When completed, it will be a 2x2 grade separated expressway.


The construction of the 12.1km section b/n A5 and Z4091 was started in September 2011 and the construction time should be 30 month according to wikipedia. Does anyone have information about the delay? When will it been opened?


----------



## x-type

MichiH said:


> I guess the remaining section is here: > click <, isn't it?
> When have the works for the 2nd carriageway been began there?
> 
> Where is the section located which will be opened tomorrow?


https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=...dQkj8AA&oq=klis&t=h&mra=dme&mrsp=1&sz=16&z=15

this will remain 1+2 and will be finished tomorrow.
section south of it has been opened yesterday.


----------



## MichiH

x-type said:


> https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=...dQkj8AA&oq=klis&t=h&mra=dme&mrsp=1&sz=16&z=15
> 
> this will remain 1+2 and will be finished tomorrow.


Thanks . It will remain 3-laned? But it will be finished tomorrow? Sorry, I don't get it.



x-type said:


> section south of it has been opened yesterday.


Ok.


----------



## x-type

MichiH said:


> Thanks . It will remain 3-laned? But it will be finished tomorrow? Sorry, I don't get it.


sorry, i thought one, and wrote other thing. it will be finnished in the autumn.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

x-type said:


> it will be finnished in the autumn.


What are the Finnish going to do with it?


----------



## Verso

ChrisZwolle said:


> What are the Finnish going to do with it?


You mean Finns?


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9rRtIDjS6Y&feature=player_detailpage
That road can be seen here.


----------



## MichiH

Puležan said:


> A11 Buševec-Lekenik section u/c (planned *opening date: 01.07.2014*.)





x-type said:


> i'm not sure, i think that Buševec - Lekenik might be opened sooner than Jakuševec - Velika Gorica. works at interchange A3-A11 ahve been reopened maybe 2-3 weeks ago, there is a lot of work left to be done. on the other hand Buševec - Lekenik is in high stage of construction, you can see it at Google Earth


Any information about the completion of the A11 Busevec – Lekenik section?


----------



## KHS

^^ Nothing

Btw. Something new on A7/D8/Krk bridge intersection 



misipile said:


>


:cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A lane Split.


----------



## Verso

At least they could write "CRIK.", so you know it's an abbreviation for Crikvenica. For a few seconds I was wondering 'where on earth is Crik?'


----------



## Shenkey

do i see right?

That is a normal road in the middle? Wtf


----------



## Verso

How do you get from the right side of the pic to the lower side ("east" to "south")?


----------



## keber

You use previous intersection:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/45.268/14.5895

That is first turbo roundabout in Croatia, right? Is there still just one lane leading from A7 to new roundabout (direction south) or did they add additional lane at previous exit?


----------



## Verso

keber said:


> You use previous intersection:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/45.268/14.5895


You can do the same in the other direction, so that extra lane from "south" to "east" is a waste of money. I'm surprised there's an extra lane in every single direction.


----------



## Puležan

Verso said:


> How do you get from the right side of the pic to the lower side ("east" to "south")?


Actually, it's west->north  As keber said, you take the L58107 road to get from D8 to A7 at the Križišće exit. The purpose was to minimize the number of cars in the roundabout, but it's the direction with the lowest traffic volume so it won't be a problem.




keber said:


> You use previous intersection:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/45.268/14.5895
> 
> That is first turbo roundabout in Croatia, right? Is there still just one lane leading from A7 to new roundabout (direction south) or did they add additional lane at previous exit?


It's our first, exactly!:cheer: And there's still one lane from Križišće exit to the roundabout (direction south) because of the overpass ~150 m from the roundabout. But eventually it will be removed and the road will be 2+2. You can see that just before the roundabout additional lanes were added:


misipile said:


> ...
> Idemo nazad, cudimo se megarjesenju, 3 u 1:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Verso

Puležan said:


> Actually, it's west->north


Actually it's northwest -> north, and that's why I used quotation marks.


----------



## volodaaaa

Does the employees in toll booths on Croatian motorway accept Euro currency? Assuming I possess the exact amount.


----------



## italystf

volodaaaa said:


> Does the employees in toll booths on Croatian motorway accept Euro currency? Assuming I possess the exact amount.


I'm sure they accept it at Rupa on the A7 (and it's understandable, since it's a main entry point from Slovenia and Western Europe) but I'm not sure elsewhere. However they give change in HRK.


----------



## volodaaaa

Just asking because my future father-in-law would like to take family to the vacation and he was surprised when I told him about the toll on Croatian motorways yesterday  In Serbia they accept Euro currency officially, but change is in RSDs. In Macedonia they accept only 5 Euro banknote and give you back change in MKD which supposedly (it is wrong  ) fit to your way back (10 MKD is missing, which is f**king 1 eurocent!).

And what about credit card payments? Is allowed on every place?


----------



## dubart

They accept €. And you can pay with a credit card anywhere.


----------



## jlin

Do one of your guys know when the Dravabridge on the A5 near Osijek will be completed and when the A5 will be completed until the Hungarian Border?


----------



## MichiH

MichiH said:


> Puležan said:
> 
> 
> 
> A11 Buševec-Lekenik section u/c (planned *opening date: 01.07.2014*.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> x-type said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm not sure, i think that Buševec - Lekenik might be opened sooner than Jakuševec - Velika Gorica. works at interchange A3-A11 ahve been reopened maybe 2-3 weeks ago, there is a lot of work left to be done. on the other hand Buševec - Lekenik is in high stage of construction, you can see it at Google Earth
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Any information about the completion of the A11 Busevec – Lekenik section?
Click to expand...




KHS said:


> ^^ Nothing


Any news meanwhile?

What's about the other u/c sections which are (were) announced to be opened in 2014?

*A11:* Jakusevec (A3) – Velika Gorica 12 8.5km (2008 to 2014) – ? – map
*A5:* Sredanci (A3) – Bosnian border 12 3.5km (September 2011 to 2014) – ? – map
*D1:* Split-Dracevac – Klis (near Ozrna) 2 1.5km (? to Fall 2014) – ? – map
*D2:* Osijek (A5) – Osijek (Z4091) 2 12.1km (September 2011 to Late 2014) – ? – map


----------



## Eulanthe

What a complete mess today in Croatia.

I drove the entire A1, and by the time I reached Karlovac, there was a 15km queue for the toll booths in Zagreb. I managed to escape a couple of junctions before, and while listening to the traffic news, I reached the toll booth. The guy there told me that he was expecting carnage because of the length of the queue. 

The A1 really needs to be 2x3 from the A1/A6 junction to Zagreb. Traffic was just incredibly heavy - I count myself lucky that I wasn't in an accident. 

It seems that border crossings had waits of up to 2 hours, that many mainline toll booths had ridiculous queues - to the point where the A2 was closed at Krapina and traffic diverted onto the old road. Electronic toll users had a huge advantage today, it seems.

What was very odd was that most of the traffic was tourists heading home, despite the long weekend in Catholic countries this weekend.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

I think that Croatia will first finish 2x3 widening from Lucko toll station to Karlovac .


----------



## x-type

Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> I think that Croatia will first finish 2x3 widening from Lucko toll station to Karlovac .


probably yes. although Zagreb bypass (especially western part between Jankomir and Lučko could be included too)


----------



## SRC_100

I took this week couple of photos in the north-east part of Croatia. The first is road no. D7, stretch from border with Hungary to junction with D2. Sorry for quality but there was heavy sunshine, so there are many sun reflexes.



























































































to be continued...


----------



## SRC_100

Very nice landscape


















Entering Beli Manastir, the board of partners cities








































































to be continued...


----------



## SRC_100

On left Svajcarnica, btw, Svajcarnica has anything to do with Swiss? 









The best part of D7 is starting here, it`s wider and smoother








































































to be continued...


----------



## SRC_100

Here we turn right (desno  ) on D2 to reach A5









to be continued... on D2


----------



## SRC_100

Let`s start on D2. As you see there is ongoing construction of second carriageway between A5 and Osijek. Unfortunately, this construction is ongoing very slowly, not many workers or equimpment at site.


























































































to be continued...


----------



## SRC_100

In the distance junction with A5









We go right to the A5









Towards toll station (cestarina  )









to be continued... on A5


----------



## SRC_100

Toll station entering A5




































On right, in the future, will be enter on A5 in direction of Hungary









Already on A5. This motorway looks less traffic loaded than hungarian M6!













































to be continued...


----------



## SRC_100

First (of four on each side) service area. They are closed during winter, except of two with petrol station (each on one side).


















to be continued...


----------



## SRC_100

to be continued...


----------



## SRC_100

We are leaving A5 and going to the petrol station to refuel. It`s "PETROL" petrol station, slovenian network.




































to be continued...


----------



## SRC_100

Coming to the south end of A5













































Taking A3 on west direction









to be continued... on A3


----------



## SRC_100

Already on A3 towards Zagreb, but we are going to leave on "Slavonski Brod zapad (west)" junction, in order to go to Sarajevo.








































































"Slavonski Brod istok (east)" junction


















to be continued...


----------



## SRC_100

Toll station entering Slavonski Brod... I took this guy (Dimitrios) in red shorts who was waiting for someone to pick him up to Sarajevo  He was from Greece and travelling from Gdańsk (PL) to Sarajevo, Montenegro, Albania, Kosovo, Macedonia, Serbia and back to Gdańsk. Best Regards Dimitrios 









to be continued... way back, few days later, A3, A5, D2


----------



## x-type

nice report! i miss such reports. i remember the beginnings of SSC when the internet lacked motorways' photos, so such reports were always welcome and informative!


----------



## Verso

If an accident occured on the A5, it would be cleared before a traffic jam could form.


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> If an accident occured on the A5, it would be cleared before a traffic jam could create.


and that accident would involve only 1 vehicle because collision is impossible there


----------



## SRC_100

Do you want some more? No problem 

Coming back from Sarajevo to Poland I took another few photos. First from A3 going east (towards border with Serbia):



























to be continued... on A5


----------



## SRC_100

A5 again towards north (Osijek):

We left A3, towards A5.









On right will be entry to A5 towards BiH









Taking look at south on A5, towards BiH - unfortunately still closed









Again A5 towards BiH









Below A3 towards Serbia









North end of A5









A5 towards Hungary









As above









Cestarina - toll station



























to be continued... on D2


----------



## SRC_100

On D2 towrds Osijek:



































































































to be continued...


----------



## SRC_100

I missed this "hidden" exit to get to D7.


















View of D2 towards east.









Puno hvala! Prijatno.
Thanks for watching.


----------



## KHS

SRC_100 said:


> On right will be entry to A5 towards BiH
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taking look at south on A5, towards BiH - unfortunately still closed


Only a bridge is missing... and a road on the other side 










Google maps

:cheers:


----------



## MichiH

KHS said:


> Only a bridge is missing... and a road on the other side


Is there any info about the project? Is the bridge u/c or is the project suspended? The road on the other side will probably be completed till late 2014.


----------



## KHS

:dunno:
Are you sure there is a road U/C on the other side?
Are there any photos od a construction site?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

There is one... about 90 kilometers to the west


----------



## MichiH

KHS said:


> :dunno:
> Are you sure there is a road U/C on the other side?


The works b/n _Svilaj_ and _Odzak_ began in late 2013. It was announced that the motorway will be completed by November 2014. I've no clue about the progress.


----------



## Pascal20a

I think the most important motorway project in Croatia is to finish the A1 to Dubrovnik.


----------



## Eulanthe

Pascal20a said:


> I think the most important motorway project in Croatia is to finish the A1 to Dubrovnik.


Actually, not really. Traffic isn't so bad between Vrgorac and Dubrovnik, but building a bypass of Dubrovnik to the airport is needed. It might also be possible to build the A1 from Dubrovnik to the border at Karasovici relatively cheaply.


----------



## Pascal20a

But the villages can avoid then the heavy traffic


----------



## Pascal20a

Does anybody why there was such a large traffic jam from Zabok to the slovenian border at ca. 22 h?


----------



## MichiH

Maybe an annoying guy stood there and asked a lot of questions...


----------



## Pascal20a

Anybody know the real reason?


----------



## x-type

Pascal20a said:


> But the villages can avoid then the heavy traffic


no mane inhabited places nor heavy traffic there.


Pascal20a said:


> Does anybody why there was such a large traffic jam from Zabok to the slovenian border at ca. 22 h?


because it was one of those turnover weekends.


----------



## Pascal20a

But i think its the main road to Greece via Bosnia, Montenegro and Albania.


----------



## x-type

Pascal20a said:


> But i think its the main road to Greece via Bosnia, Montenegro and Albania.


idea is to form it (so called adriatic-ionian route), but still traffic is too low comparing to E75


----------



## Pascal20a

ok i understand
but there should be also for me that you can save time


----------



## čarli1

Puležan said:


> D5 (state road - "D"), because it'll be built in 2x2 expressway standard, and expressways in HR doesn't have special numbers like motorways.


Is this for sure that there will be 2x2? Won't be 1x1 expressway? What about bridge?


----------



## Puležan

čarli;116677163 said:


> Is this for sure that there will be 2x2? Won't be 1x1 expressway? What about bridge?


The bridge itself will be in a full-motorway profile. The expressway from the bridge until Okučani interchange will be 4-lane:

source: http://www.radiong.hr/?d=1&id=13182










It's actually part of a bigger project: a 2-lane expressway which is intended to replace the existing D5, from H to BIH border, on E661 route (Balaton-Barcs-Virovitica-Daruvar-Pakrac-Lipik-Okučani-Banja Luka).


----------



## MichiH

Puležan;116677908 said:


> It's actually part of a bigger project: a 2-lane expressway which is intended to replace the existing D5, from H to BIH border, on E661 route (Balaton-Barcs-Virovitica-Daruvar-Pakrac-Lipik-Okučani-Banja Luka).


What's the AADT on the current D5. Will it get a second (empty) main road like the A5?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

They don't reserved any space for a border checkpoint on E661 near Gradiška (Bosnian side). Do they plan a joint border post?


----------



## nestvaran

As far as I know a separate checkpoint is planned


----------



## Puležan

MichiH said:


> What's the AADT on the current D5. Will it get a second (empty) main road like the A5?


No, it won't even be a 4-lane road, just an ordinary 2-lane road without at-level crossings. But again, it's just a plan in Croatian traffic infrastructure strategy, so it won't be in the planning stage soon 

On the existing D5 the ASDT and *AADT* in 2013 was as follows:
- Terezino Polje (border crossing) - 1071, *760*
- Virovitica (south) - 1580, *1296*
- Grubišno Polje - 3011, *2917*
- Lipik - 5018, *4722*
- Okučani - 3918, *3592*
- Stara Gradiška (border crossing) - 4140, *3470*.

source: http://www.hrvatske-ceste.hr/UserDo...na cestama Republike Hrvatske godine 2013.pdf


----------



## Eulanthe

nestvaran said:


> As far as I know a separate checkpoint is planned


:nuts:

Haven't they learnt anything from the success of Licko Petrovo Selo?

But maybe I can forgive them - isn't Gradiska/Stara Gradiska one of the two 'full service' border crossings where anything can be exported/imported?


----------



## celevac

It is. Calling it "full service", however, does sound awkward considering the daily situation at that border crossing. Who's been there knows what I mean ;-)


----------



## JackFrost

Puležan said:


> The bridge itself will be in a full-motorway profile. The expressway from the bridge until Okučani interchange will be 4-lane:
> 
> source: http://www.radiong.hr/?d=1&id=13182
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's actually part of a bigger project: a 2-lane expressway which is intended to replace the existing D5, from H to BIH border, on E661 route (Balaton-Barcs-Virovitica-Daruvar-Pakrac-Lipik-Okučani-Banja Luka).


Do you happen to have more information about this project? When is construction scheduled to start?


----------



## celevac

Croatian Prime Minister Zoran Milanović will meet his Bosnian, Montenegrin and Albanian counterparts today at Cavtat and negotiate about future projects in the region, among others the Adriatic-Ionian motorway. (Source: HRT HR1 radio news) 

I doubt that they will agree on a concrete plan because all these countries lack the money to build this motorway. I suppose they will just delay construction again, but let's wait and see what happens.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

I don't think that Montenegro is going to build Adriatic motorway.They allready have problems with Bar-Boljare.


----------



## Puležan

Jack_Frost said:


> Do you happen to have more information about this project? When is construction scheduled to start?


Unfortunately, there's no informations and I can't find the map showing planned motorways and expressways network (including single-carriageway expressways intended to replace the existing highways/"magistrale" D1, D5...)  I know the map was posted somewhere on the forum (on this thread or on croatian one) few years ago...

But again, it was just a really long-term plan (in the next 20-30-50 years) to build new highways (magistrale) to replace those which are inadequate (old, curvy, too narrow...), and some of those was D1 on Karlovac-Slunj-Korenica-Udbina section (that's why the TOTSO at D1/D522 intersection was built, so D1 diverges from A1 in Karlovac, and the intended/planned end of this new single-lane expressway/magistrala is on Gornja Ploča exit at A1 again.

Maybe other forumers would have more informations or maps/plans...


----------



## Eulanthe

Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> I don't think that Montenegro is going to build Adriatic motorway.They allready have problems with Bar-Boljare.


I think we might see bypasses of Tivat and Budva built to 2x2 standard. The rest? Forget it...



> But again, it was just a really long-term plan (in the next 20-30-50 years) to build new highways (magistrale) to replace those which are inadequate (old, curvy, too narrow...), and some of those was D1 on Karlovac-Slunj-Korenica-Udbina section (that's why the TOTSO at D1/D522 intersection was built, so D1 diverges from A1 in Karlovac, and the intended/planned end of this new single-lane expressway/magistrala is on Gornja Ploča exit at A1 again.


That explains a lot to me, thank you! I wondered what was going on with the D522 - it looked ridiculously overengineered, but now you've said that, it makes perfect sense.


----------



## celevac

Alright, bad news coming up... mg:icard::bash:

http://www.jutarnji.hr/ekskluzivno-...e-odustati-od-autoputa-do-dubrovnika/1215534/ 

The Prime Ministers of Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro and Albania met yesterday in Cavtat. They came to the conclusion that the *Adriatic-Ionian highway will not be built via Dubrovnik, but rather via Počitelj (BiH) and Trebinje (BiH)* to Montenegro. Croatia does plan to build the Pelješki most (Pelješac bridge) in order to circumvent Neum. The new plan is to build a semi-expressway (widen D8 at some places and build village bypasses wherever it is possible). 

While Croatia could still build the highway to Dubrovnik on their own territory, they would have to do it with their own money. But that's not going to happen anytime soon. I'm afraid they won't even do the widening or any improvements on the existing D8 state road, because Croatia has no money. hno:

The only good thing is that transit to MNE and AL will no longer go via the D8 as soon as the motorway through BiH is finished (but that will take a long time, as we know).


----------



## Pascal20a

Thats bad bad news. When will this motorway be built?


----------



## iponi

Pascal20a said:


> Thats bad bad news. When will this motorway be built?


In 2099 if they collect enough money till then.


----------



## Pascal20a

Then it means the motorway will follow the A1 to Pocetj and then goes via Trebinje to Montenegro right?


----------



## threo2k

celevac said:


> Alright, bad news coming up... mg:icard::bash:
> 
> http://www.jutarnji.hr/ekskluzivno-...e-odustati-od-autoputa-do-dubrovnika/1215534/
> 
> The Prime Ministers of Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro and Albania met yesterday in Cavtat. They came to the conclusion that the *Adriatic-Ionian highway will not be built via Dubrovnik, but rather via Počitelj (BiH) and Trebinje (BiH)* to Montenegro. Croatia does plan to build the Pelješki most (Pelješac bridge) in order to circumvent Neum. The new plan is to build a semi-expressway (widen D8 at some places and build village bypasses wherever it is possible).
> 
> While Croatia could still build the highway to Dubrovnik on their own territory, they would have to do it with their own money. But that's not going to happen anytime soon. I'm afraid they won't even do the widening or any improvements on the existing D8 state road, because Croatia has no money. hno:
> 
> The only good thing is that transit to MNE and AL will no longer go via the D8 as soon as the motorway through BiH is finished (but that will take a long time, as we know).


Its very sad that the motorway dont go through neum, but dont worry, they will build a motorway that goes to dubrovnik, they dont have any choice


----------



## Pascal20a

I find they need an exit on the motorway for Neum cause that is also a touristic place.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Is this new alignment a priority for Bosnia? I appreciate the fact that it would be cheaper than a route directly via Dubrovnik, but if Bosnia can't find funding to build it, then it won't become a reality until very very far into the future. The Sarajevo - Mostar corridor is much more important for domestic traffic in Bosnia.


----------



## sponge_bob

FiveYears said:


> Wouldn`t agree with last sentence. If Slovenia, Croatia, Albania, Greece and especially Montenegro agree to built as much as can in their own countries, BH wouldn`t be problem any more, or will be very small.


Well as incomes rise in Eastern Europe the area around Kotor and Dubrovnik will continue to see a very strong growth in tourism and it would be a very good idea to bypass that area inland via Trebinje instead of wrecking it with major roads along the coast, better have discreet spurs appearing from Tunnels near Dubrovnik airport etc than clawed out of a mountainside. 

Kotor and Dubrovnik are one of the most spectacular destinations in all of Eastern Europe, nobody wants to see them ruined.


----------



## Karaya

Who would use this long distance motorway? Makes no sense to unload cargo in Greece and then transport it to Central Europe when it can be unloaded in the northern Adriatic sea. It will only work as a local not long distance motorway. It's really funny in a way to see how far politics will go in the quest to avoid BiH at any cost.


----------



## Verso

Traffic (AADT) through the toll station Rupa on A7 (Rupa-Jurdani) was just 7,014 vpd last year. That's crazily low. I wonder how much traffic there is between Jurdani and Matulji; it's free of charge and closer to Rijeka.


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> Traffic (AADT) through the toll station Rupa on A7 (Rupa-Jurdani) was just 7,014 vpd last year. That's crazily low. I wonder how much traffic there is between Jurdani and Matulji; it's free of charge and closer to Rijeka.


i cannot find that info atm, but it must be quite large because A7 between intersection with A8 and exit 6 RI Rujevica is every year among 5 the most congested sections in the country. also, summer traffic at toll station Rupa is cca 16000 vehicles, and that amount of traffic would make absolute disaster in summer months on that part of D8, although it doesn't look bad at all, but terrain, villages etc. would make it horrible.


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> i cannot find that info atm, but it must be quite large because A7 between intersection with A8 and exit 6 RI Rujevica is every year among 5 the most congested sections in the country.


Yeah, with everyone coming from A8.


----------



## x-type

^^
very possible too because exit Jurdani is not in densely inhabited area, while really plenty of cars could use famous traffic-lights exit Opatija to reach RI bypass.

(btw why are you using new google maps? where is the resistance?!)


----------



## sponge_bob

Karaya said:


> It's really funny in a way to see how far politics will go in the quest to avoid BiH at any cost.


It is also possible to pull the reliable old Croatian trick and build the Bosnian section _initially_ as 1+1 and double it later when traffic justifies it. 

It would still be congested in summer but would be OK for 10 months of the year, initially anyway. Montenegro Albania and Greece would be advised to do the same ...mainly. Some 2+2 in spots around Podgorica and Tirana perhaps but otherwise 1+1.

There was basically no motorway anywhere between Trieste and Patras in 2000 ( bar a few 1+1 sections that are now 2+2 so by 2015 that AI motorway will already have come a long way.


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> (btw why are you using new google maps? where is the resistance?!)


I'm using the old version. :dunno:


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> I'm using the old version. :dunno:


your links open as new google maps at my pc :dunno:


----------



## zvonko

Firefox - new google maps
Opera 12 - old google maps


----------



## MichiH

zvonko said:


> Firefox - new google maps


Firefox at home: new google maps
Firefox at work: old google maps


----------



## italystf

Karaya said:


> Who would use this long distance motorway? Makes no sense to unload cargo in Greece and then transport it to Central Europe when it can be unloaded in the northern Adriatic sea. It will only work as a local not long distance motorway. It's really funny in a way to see how far politics will go in the quest to avoid BiH at any cost.


It would be useful for traffic between Greece and Western Europe. Driving Venice - Igoumenitsa could be faster than taking the ferry if there is a motorway all the way. The downside of it is that freight traffic would have to deal with customs of non-EU countries so they would choose the ferry anyway. For tourists, instead, driving is probably better, since it allows to visit places along the road. Balkan border crossings (except Kosovo) aren't a big obstacle to passenger traffic.
BTW, there is already a motorway almost all the way from Greece to Central Europe (I, A, H,...). Only the section between Thessaloniki and the border with Macedonia\FYROM and a section in southern Serbia are missing.


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

Also there is a section in Macedonia which is U/C and it's going to be completed by the end of 2016, also all the sections which are in Serbia should be completed by the end of 2016.


----------



## x-type

zvonko said:


> Firefox - new google maps
> Opera 12 - old google maps


i'm using Chrome


----------



## kostas97

italystf said:


> It would be useful for traffic between Greece and Western Europe. Driving Venice - Igoumenitsa could be faster than taking the ferry if there is a motorway all the way. The downside of it is that freight traffic would have to deal with customs of non-EU countries so they would choose the ferry anyway. For tourists, instead, driving is probably better, since it allows to visit places along the road. Balkan border crossings (except Kosovo) aren't a big obstacle to passenger traffic.
> BTW, there is already a motorway almost all the way from Greece to Central Europe (I, A, H,...). Only the section between Thessaloniki and the border with Macedonia\FYROM and a section in southern Serbia are missing.


This route is indeed effective and its modernisation should be taken under consideration.

Albania, for example, will be benefited because many Albanians live and work in Greece and they usually travel back to their country. The distance between Athens and Tirana is about 750-800 km long of which only 160-170 km is 2x2 motorway. 

By the way, do not forget that such a motorway will give Albania a bigger chance of joining the EU.

Also, apart from Albania, sociopolitical relations between the countries crossed by that motorway would have been strengthened, as well as the trade.

In addition, wherever there is a motorway, there is also development.


----------



## sponge_bob

Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> Also there is a section in Macedonia which is U/C and it's going to be completed by the end of 2016, also all the sections which are in Serbia should be completed by the end of 2016.


By the time this is built your north south route will be jammed with traffic, think Budapest and its region today compared to 10-15 years ago.


----------



## Shenkey

google maps sux anyway, they load way to slow. Due to this reason I prefer http://www.bing.com/maps/


----------



## Autoputevi kao hobi

sponge_bob said:


> By the time this is built your north south route will be jammed with traffic, think Budapest and its region today compared to 10-15 years ago.


Well Serbia has a lot of transit traffic and we have more and more factory's,so that means that we have more and more domestic trucks on our motorways.


----------



## Puležan

Verso said:


> Traffic (AADT) through the toll station Rupa on A7 (Rupa-Jurdani) was just 7,014 vpd last year. That's crazily low. I wonder how much traffic there is between Jurdani and Matulji; it's free of charge and closer to Rijeka.





x-type said:


> i cannot find that info atm, but it must be quite large because A7 between intersection with A8 and exit 6 RI Rujevica is every year among 5 the most congested sections in the country. also, summer traffic at toll station Rupa is cca 16000 vehicles, and that amount of traffic would make absolute disaster in summer months on that part of D8, although it doesn't look bad at all, but terrain, villages etc. would make it horrible.


These are the numbers for 2013:
*Rijeka area:*
- A7 Rupa: AADT 7014, ASDT 16251
- A7 Rujevica (Rijeka bypass): AADT 26174, ASDT 33063
- D8 Pasjak: AADT 5136, ASDT 9690

*Istra:*
- A9 Buje: AADT 7177, ASDT 16398
- D200 Buje: AADT 4841, ASDT 6695
- D200 Plovanija: AADT 4677, ASDT 9121
- D510 Kaštel: AADT 4548, ASDT 8351

- A9 Pula: AADT 4873, ASDT 10152
- D75 Pula: AADT 10514, ASDT 13262

*The whole A9 has AADT around 6000 and ASDT around 13000 vehicles.

The source: http://www.hrvatske-ceste.hr/UserDo...na cestama Republike Hrvatske godine 2013.pdf

So, in Croatia the need for a motorway is not only conditioned by the amount of traffic during the whole year, but also by the traffic amount during summer and also by terrain. In the numbers I gave above, you can see that ASDT on touristic routes is regularly 2x bigger than in the rest of the year, so if there's no motorway on those routes, the regular roads would be very congested and unsafe. Also, sometimes the regular roads (magistrale, državne ceste/state roads) are very curvy, twisty, narrow, with big slopes (because of tough terrain) so we have built motorways to bypass such roads, like A9 instead of D75. If there's no A9, on state road D75 the average number of vehicles during the summer would be cca 16500 (13000 which now use A9 and 3500 which use D75), and you can see here how does this road looks like (*D21 is the old designation; now the whole stretch from Plovanija to Pula is D75). If there's no A7 north of Rijeka, on D8 the ASDT would be cca 20000!

The same is with A7, A8, A1 south of Split.

Conclusion - in Croatia (and probably the rest of the European southeast coast, or at least in Greece) there is a certain number of motorways whose AADT doesn't justify building a motorway, but ASDT surely does :cheers:


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## Verso

^^ D75 through Istria is terrible, I know that, but what was wrong with B9 (2-lane expressway)?


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> but what was wrong with B9 (2-lane expressway)?


too many fatal accidents. Istrian Y was named as one of those "roads of death" due to 2 way traffic and high speeds. this spring i travelled B8 and A9 to SLO border. after the tunnel, i was doing 120-160 km/h (yes, i know, shame on me :slap: ) without any problems almost all the time.

also, i think that concessionaire had obligation to upgrade it in certain period.


----------



## italystf

kostas97 said:


> By the way, do not forget that such a motorway will give Albania a bigger chance of joining the EU.


I doubt that a better road network will help Albania to join EU. Other matters, like economy, politics, human rights, do influence EU membership. There are countries who joined EU with (almost) no motorways, like Romania, Bulgaria, Latvia and Estonia. However, if Albania will eventually join EU, it will get EU funds for more motorways.


----------



## italystf

x-type said:


> also, i think that concessionaire had obligation to upgrade it in certain period.


In Italy the gov't allows concessionaries to rise tolls if the accident rate is low (one is supposed to pay a higher price for a better, safer service). For this reason, no concessionary increased the speed limit to 150, even if allowed by law under certain conditions.


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## sponge_bob

Well I would think Montenegro will join the EU quite a bit sooner than Albania myself....and quite possibly before Serbia and Bosnia. 

The awkward situation will then arise in that it can only be connected _to_ the EU _through_ a non EU country. 

Pulezan provided all the information one could wish for as to the necessity of a 1+1 solution ( in the short-medium term) rather than a 2+2 as the existing roads are narrow snaking coastal roads that are maxed out at 7-10k AADT.

ASDT does not matter, Portugal got into loads of trouble building ASDT spec roads where ( like the Adriatic coast for now) it only gets that traffic 2 months a year. 

Well built offline and limited access 1+1 can cope with an AADT around 10k unlike a narrow coastal road can. 

If facts change, a longer Spanish style tourist season and higher year round traffic the upgrade to 2+2 can be scheduled. 

The do 'nothing' option is counterproductive, a high quality 1+1 road opens up the spectacular coast from Split to south of Kotor to business and I am confident that it will get that business. Passenger numbers into Split/Dubrovnik/Trvat?/Podgorica are showing the build up of custom...almost every one of those airports increased their throughput _year on year _during the financial crisis after 2007 if you check the data. 

Getting from Podgorica to Arte in Greece is a discussion for another time, lets deal with the northern half of the Adriatic Motorway first.


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## FiveYears

sponge_bob said:


> *Getting from Podgorica to Arte in Greece is a discussion for another time*, lets deal with the northern half of the Adriatic Motorway first.


Nope, I want it all 2x2. It could be standardized as albanian route beetween Tirane and Durres, doesn`t matter :cheers:


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## italystf

sponge_bob said:


> Well I would think Montenegro will join the EU quite a bit sooner than Albania myself....and quite possibly before Serbia and Bosnia.
> 
> The awkward situation will then arise in that it can only be connected _to_ the EU _through_ a non EU country.


Montenegro is already accessible from Croatia, that is an EU country.
BTW, also Greece didn't border any EU country since recently but it was already in EU.


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## Puležan

x-type said:


> too many fatal accidents. Istrian Y was named as one of those "roads of death" due to 2 way traffic and high speeds. this spring i travelled B8 and A9 to SLO border. after the tunnel, i was doing 120-160 km/h (yes, i know, shame on me :slap: ) without any problems almost all the time.
> 
> also, i think that concessionaire had obligation to upgrade it in certain period.


The concessionaire had the obligation to build the second carriageway when AADT reaches 10.000 vehicles or when ASDT reaches 16.000 vehicles.
http://www.bina-istra.com/Default.aspx?sid=532

The second carriageway was built before such traffic volumes had been reached on all sections, but the full profile was the precondition for introduction of toll


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## bewu1

If they lower the peage on Bina-Istra Motorway, they may catch more traffic.


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## x-type

bewu1 said:


> If they lower the peage on Bina-Istra Motorway, they may catch more traffic.


how? i think that nobody uses state roads for medium and long distance traffic there,


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## KHS

*[A5] - Drava bridge U/C*


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## MichiH

Is there still any motorway opening expected until end of 2014?



MichiH said:


> *A5:* Sredanci (A3) – Zoljani 12 3.5km (September 2011 to 2014) – ? – map
> *D1:* Split-Dracevac – Klis (near Ozrna) 2 1.5km (? to Fall 2014) – ? – map
> *D2:* Osijek (A5) – Osijek (Z4091) 2 12.1km (September 2011 to Late 2014) – ? – map
> *A11:* Busevec – Lekenik 12 11.2km (April 2010 to >= 2014) – ? – map


Any updated info about the completion of this projects?


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## Puležan

MichiH said:


> Is there still any motorway opening expected until end of 2014?
> 
> Any updated info about the completion of this projects?


In Croatia there's no such thing like a completion date :hahano:

Anyway, people saw intensive works od Lekenik exit (A11-D30), so there's a chance for opening before the end of the year.

About D2 Osijek expressway - HC (road administration) announced that an 7,5 km section will be opened in the middle of November. 

A5 - the 3,5 km section from Sredanci i/c to the Sava river will be finished by the end of this year, but no exact date has been given. But it will be usefull only for Svilaj (Zoljani) exit.

D1 - :dunno:


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## MichiH

Puležan said:


> A5 - the 3,5 km section from Sredanci i/c to the Sava river will be finished by the end of this year, but no exact date has been given. But it will be usefull only for Svilaj (Zoljani) exit.


Do you think the A5 will really be opened to_ Zoljani_ exit? We discussed it could also remain closed until the Sava bridge will be completed (202x).


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## Puležan

MichiH said:


> Do you think the A5 will really be opened to_ Zoljani_ exit? We discussed it could also remain closed until the Sava bridge will be completed (202x).


If the Zoljani exit remains closed until the Sava bridge is completed, then it's a stupid decision, because there is a very big distance between the exits:

Slavonski Brod east to Đakovo - 41 km!!!
Slavonski Brod east to Velika Kopanica - 27 km
Đakovo to V. Kopanica - 29 km


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## bzbox

^^
But whom will exit Zoljani serve? Few little villages around Sava river?


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## x-type

bzbox said:


> ^^
> But whom will exit Zoljani serve? Few little villages around Sava river?


what would happen if somebody wouldn't like to continue on tolled motorway after entering HR at that border crossing?


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## bzbox

^^
He would drive on local road to D7 road?


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## x-type

bzbox said:


> ^^
> He would drive on local road to D7 road?


so they would indicate yet in Bosnia about tolls in Croatia and redirect traffic to longer bypassing route?


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## Nexis

Most Krka na A1 by Milan Z81, on Flickr


Most Krka na A1 by Milan Z81, on Flickr


Most Krka na A1 by Milan Z81, on Flickr


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## Eulanthe

x-type said:


> what would happen if somebody wouldn't like to continue on tolled motorway after entering HR at that border crossing?


It's a common problem in Europe, there are plenty of places where you don't have the possibility of exiting after the border crossing. Austria was (allegedly...) hammering people for driving on the A6 between the Kittsee border crossing and the Kittsee exit, for instance. As far as I know, it's the same situation at Bregana - if you cross into HR there, you have no choice but to pay the 10kn (or something...) toll.


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## italystf

bigic said:


> https://goo.gl/maps/dBLrP
> Only about 300 km longer when going from Zagreb, maybe even less from Central Europe. :grass:


Or take the ferry Zadar-Ancona, then drive to Bari and take the ferry to Dubrovnik.


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## Autoputevi kao hobi

A3 from Zagreb to Slavonski Brod can be seen on this video


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## Eulanthe

tfd543 said:


> The only thing I wanted to state id that Croatia's entry to schengen would simply mean an abolishment of the borders so you dont even have to wait at the lines because there may be some travellers that only brought a regular passport to be stamped and scanned. Its like 3-5 minutes per car so a lot of time can be saved


It's nowhere near 3-5 minutes per car on internal EU border crossings. It depends on the border crossing, but in general, EU citizens are either waved through or given only a very quick check. The problem is that some Croatian border crossings are international, yet aren't able to deal with the traffic properly. A perfect example is Vitaljina, on the MNE border - there's only one lane, yet it's wholly inadequate for the amount of traffic crossing there. Croatia, before joining Schengen, absolutely needs to improve some of their border crossings. Many of them are excellent (for example, Licko Petrovo Selo, Stara Gradiska and Nova Sela) - but Doljani (close to Metkovic) is a disaster.


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## stickedy

Vitaljina is only a minor crossing. The traffic should go over Debeli Brijeg. But because it's a mess there - on Croatian as well as on Montenegrin side - many try their luck at Vitaljina and than it gets crowded as hell. But if Debeli Brijeg would be improved, no one would drove over Vitaljina.


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## Autoputevi kao hobi

A7,Rijeka bypass








By Japanac,his Panoramio:http://www.panoramio.com/user/8421517?comment_page=1&photo_page=9


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## Eulanthe

stickedy said:


> Vitaljina is only a minor crossing. The traffic should go over Debeli Brijeg. But because it's a mess there - on Croatian as well as on Montenegrin side - many try their luck at Vitaljina and than it gets crowded as hell. But if Debeli Brijeg would be improved, no one would drove over Vitaljina.


The police are often closing Karaskovici too and directing traffic to Vitaljina. I was there last summer (in the direction MNE->HR) and while clearance out of Montenegro and into Croatia took a few seconds, there was a jam of several hours in the HR->MNE direction. I asked the Croatian guard what the problem actually was, and he told me that the requirement for a Green Card in MNE caused a lot of problems - people have to buy the insurance on the spot, and with only one lane in each direction, it causes huge queues. He also told me that his peers in Karaskovici also cause huge problems by doing unnecessary checks - for instance, scanning passports of EU citizens when they're clearly tourists. The best solution there would be to introduce "one stop" controls - but Schengen unfortunately prohibits controls outside of Schengen territory (why, I don't know - it's one of the most stupid rules...). Certainly it would make much more sense for EU citizens to be visually checked on the entrance to Karaskovici, and if all is well, they should be able to bypass the more thorough controls. The other bad thing is the lack of the "green lane" system - so Customs waste a lot of time asking for verbal declarations, too.


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## stickedy

The green card explanation seems absolutely nonsense to me. You need the green card for example also in BiH and in fact you get the green card from your insurance company. So buying it at the border crossing is only an exception. Only big border crossing point have insurance companies at all. And I had crossed there many times (waiting between an hour and a few minutes in the queue) and visible nobody bought an insurance there.

But indeed, the Montenegrin side does time intensive checks. However, I have also waited there for an hour entering Croatia, so that isn't a Montenegrin only problem. In my opinion the border crossing is simply to small. Croatia extended their side a few years back and since then the waiting time there was improved (getting smaller), so Montenegro also has to extend their side.

Joint controls wouldn't really eliminate the problem, just have a look at Sokobin - Muriqan (Montenegro - Albania) where there are joint controls and that crossing is also crowded as hell despite that there were several lanes available and in operation. But joint controls make it more pleasant.


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## dubart

It's not about a green card in MNE but an eco tax: http://www.visit-montenegro.com/article-mne-4966.htm


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## stickedy

dubart said:


> It's not about a green card in MNE but an eco tax: http://www.visit-montenegro.com/article-mne-4966.htm


The Eco–tax was abolished already in 2012: http://www.balkans.com/open-news.php?uniquenumber=118235

And in fact it didn't harm the border procedure since it was sold before the booths and you had enough time to get one while waiting in the queue


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## celevac

I always liked Vitaljina much more because it tends to be a rather quiet and fast border crossing. Karasovići can get insane backlogs in summer and in winter, they sometimes just don't move their asses on the Montenegrin side of the border. For example, customs officers sleeping in their booth (around midnight) and angry at you for literally waking them up during their workhours, and then proceeding extra slow on purpose just because you were the only car within an hour. Another time it happened that the police officer was done after a quick passport scan and then the customs officer started interrogation because he had nothing else to do in his quiet shift outside of the touristic season... I'm sure, if they worked more efficiently, they could improve the queues a lot. 

Before anyone here starts yelling nationalist things at me because of my "location" in the forum profile, this is not what I was trying to imply. It's not about Croatian-Montenegrin relations. The same thing is going on with e.g. Croatian police as well at many border crossings, but at Karasovići it appears to be extra-bad.


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## tfd543

celevac said:


> I always liked Vitaljina much more because it tends to be a rather quiet and fast border crossing. Karasovići can get insane backlogs in summer and in winter, they sometimes just don't move their asses on the Montenegrin side of the border. For example, customs officers sleeping in their booth (around midnight) and angry at you for literally waking them up during their workhours, and then proceeding extra slow on purpose just because you were the only car within an hour. Another time it happened that the police officer was done after a quick passport scan and then the customs officer started interrogation because he had nothing else to do in his quiet shift outside of the touristic season... I'm sure, if they worked more efficiently, they could improve the queues a lot.
> 
> Before anyone here starts yelling nationalist things at me because of my "location" in the forum profile, this is not what I was trying to imply. It's not about Croatian-Montenegrin relations. The same thing is going on with e.g. Croatian police as well at many border crossings, but at Karasovići it appears to be extra-bad.



Hmm, you never know regarding the relations. Its just funny that in many borders around Balkan, they pay attention to your name and ask for your nationality even if its written in the passport. that happens frequently. In addition, working there is actually a prestigeous job in Balkan so they feel kinda prevailed. Just imagine that you have the power and authority to let people in your country.


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## HRHB

Drove from Vienna to Sarajevo over Slavonski Šamac and at Sredanci interchange they already put Svilaj sign-post but without BiH sticker, I don't know since when it's there but I thought it's good to know


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## x-type

HRHB said:


> Drove from Vienna to Sarajevo over Slavonski Šamac and at Sredanci interchange they already put Svilaj sign-post but without BiH sticker, I don't know since when it's there but I thought it's good to know


that's because it really will temporarly be exit for Svilaj, nothing else. i mean, there is wooden ferry accross the river in Svilaj (i don't know is it still operational), but untill the bridge would be finished, there will be no signs for BIH.


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## Verso

x-type said:


> that's because it really will temporarly be exit for Svilaj, nothing else. i mean, there is wooden ferry accross the river in Svilaj (i don't know is it still operational), but untill the bridge would be finished, there will be no signs for BIH.


It would be quite trolling, if they led all traffic over that wooden ferry.


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## italystf

Verso said:


> It would be quite trolling, if they led all traffic over that wooden ferry.


Is this ferry?
https://www.google.it/maps/place/Sv...2!3m1!1s0x475c4c6be4575c45:0x1d563678a27d5852
It's interesting, I don't think there are still many river ferry border crossings in Europe. Are there pics? Is passport\ID check performed on the boat or while waiting the boat?
The closest that come to my mind is the ferry between Switzerland and Germany on the Bodensee.


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## x-type

yes, that's the place. and it would really be trolling, verso 
you can see on google earth customs booth at croatian side (blue roof). on bosnian - i don't know.

this is how that ferry looks like.


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## Autoputevi kao hobi

Not so long time ago one company from Serbia was using Zagreb bypass and they reported that some construction works were going on.I am not sure about what they were talking.Does any one of you guys know?I think that they said something about A4.


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## Eulanthe

Can't be certain, but it looks like - https://www.google.si/maps/@45.1137751,18.2772163,251m/data=!3m1!1e3 - those little white buildings are probably the Bosnian control buildings. It's normal for Bosnia to use those portable huts for small border crossings (and even not so small border crossings...). But is that ferry really open for international traffic, or just locals?


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## Puležan

Autoputevi kao hobi said:


> Not so long time ago one company from Serbia was using Zagreb bypass and they reported that some construction works were going on.I am not sure about what they were talking.Does any one of you guys know?I think that they said something about A4.


It's the construction site of the future junction Jakuševec, A3-A11. Northern ramps are done, now they are building the southern part of the junction.


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## tooljan

Eulanthe said:


> Can't be certain, but it looks like - https://www.google.si/maps/@45.1137751,18.2772163,251m/data=!3m1!1e3 - those little white buildings are probably the Bosnian control buildings. It's normal for Bosnia to use those portable huts for small border crossings (and even not so small border crossings...). But is that ferry really open for international traffic, or just locals?


It's not international border crossing. On river Sava, there are couple of ferries between BIH and CRO.


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## italystf

admirer of sir ALEX said:


> The first one, due to safety reasons..........


Why the first one should be safer?


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## MichiH

celevac said:


> More updates from the government's meeting today:
> https://vlada.gov.hr/UserDocsImages//Sjednice/2014/200 sjednica Vlade//200 - 20a.pdf
> 
> A11 Jakuševec-Velika Gorica jug (south) expected to open in mid 2015
> A11 Buševec-Lekenik expected to open in the 1st quarter of 2015 (= by April 1)


http://slobodnadalmacija.hr/Hrvatska/tabid/66/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/277777/Default.aspx (10th March)



> Idućeg tjedna očekujemo tehnički pregled dionice Buševec – Lekenik, no u ovom trenutku ne znamo kad bi na dionici mogao biti otvoren promet jer to ovisi o trajanju tehničkog pregleda i njegovu ishodu – rečeno nam je jučer u Hrvatskim autocestama.
> 
> Next week we expect scrutineering shares *Busevec - Lekenik*, but at this point we do *not know if the section could be opened* traffic because it depends on the duration of the technical inspection and the outcome - said us yesterday in the Croatian highways.


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## celevac

MichiH said:


> http://slobodnadalmacija.hr/Hrvatska/tabid/66/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/277777/Default.aspx (10th March)


I bet they will open this stretch just before the parliamentary elections later this year... :bash:


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## MichiH

celevac said:


> There's news from a government meeting that took place today.
> 
> - A5 motorway section from Osijek to the Drava bridge will be constructed starting in 2015 in full profile
> - A5 motorway section from the north side of the bridge to Beli Manastir (1st phase) will begin in 2015, depending on the financial situation, and then be finished as expected, as will the 2nd part from Beli Manastir to the Hungarian border. The section Čeminac-Osijek will be opened in 2016 in half profile.
> This section will not be built in full profile, but only in 2x1 for now.


I found this press release of 13th March. It's published by Viadukt company.



> Potpisan ugovor o izgradnji poddionice autoceste A5Viadukt je 13. ožujka 2015. godine potpisao ugovor o izgradnji objekta Poddionica autoceste A5 (Beli Manastir – Osijek – Svilaj): dionica Most Drava – Čvor Osijek, u ukupnoj dužini od 3,8 kilometara. Naručitelj radova su Hrvatske ceste d.o.o., a vrijednost iznosi 15.676.440,83 eura, bez PDV-a.


Google translated:



> Contract signed for construction of subsection highway A5
> Viaduct on 13 March 2015, *signed a contract to build the subsection highway A5* (Beli Manastir - Osijek - Svilaj): Most shares Drava - i/c Osijek, with a total length of *3.8** kilometers*. Commissioned works are Croatian Roads, a value is 15,676,440.83 €, excluding VAT.


It seems to be the subsection south of the Drava bridge. Is there any info about a deadline?
Is there any info about the announced extension north of the bridge?


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## celevac

That's all they say. The section they refer to is Drava bridge - Osijek interchange.


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## SRC_100

It doesn`t make sens if they aren`t going to build north section of bridge to the nearest interchange (Beli Manastir?).


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## zezi

MichiH said:


> I found this press release of 13th March. It's published by Viadukt company.
> 
> Google translated:
> 
> It seems to be the subsection south of the Drava bridge. Is there any info about a deadline?
> Is there any info about the announced extension north of the bridge?


730 days for Drava bridge to Osijek.
That part will be financed with money saved from Drava bridge. 

North of Drava Bridge: only info we have - it will not be full profile motorway but only half profile ( two way traffic).


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## SRC_100

^^
1x2 profile is enough, noth of Osijek is low AADT all the way to hungarian border.
So when could we expect start of constraction the north section (of Drava b.)?


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## sponge_bob

Croatias overall budget situation is frankly _very_ precarious and the remaining sections between Bosnia and Hungary would be best be built as half profile for now. 

If Croatia pulls the right strings in Brussels on the Bosnia connection it will cost the state next to nothing to build the remaining A5 as half profile and Brussels will even pay for the upgrade if required in future.


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## MichiH

SRC_100 said:


> So when could we expect start of constraction the north section (of Drava b.)?


I quote again...



celevac said:


> There's news from a government meeting that took place today.
> 
> - A5 motorway section from Osijek to the Drava bridge will be constructed starting in 2015 in full profile :check:
> - *A5 motorway section from the north side of the bridge to Beli Manastir (1st phase) will begin in 2015, depending on the financial situation*, and then be finished as expected, as will the 2nd part from Beli Manastir to the Hungarian border. The section Čeminac-Osijek will be opened in 2016 in half profile. :dunno:
> This section will not be built in full profile, but only in 2x1 for now.


A route is shown on OSM (including Ceminac i/c).


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## Alien x

sponge_bob said:


> Croatias overall budget situation is frankly _very_ precarious and the remaining sections between Bosnia and Hungary would be best be built as half profile for now.
> 
> If Croatia pulls the right strings in Brussels on the Bosnia connection it will cost the state next to nothing to build the remaining A5 as half profile and Brussels will even pay for the upgrade if required in future.


The only section missing towards Bosnia is the Sava bridge which is fully funded (financing is already in place) already. The only reason that it has not been built yet is that EiB and Ebrd did not accept the winning bids (as in rejected twice).


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## SRC_100

Tender for A5 extension between BELI MANASTIR - DRAVA Bridge was announced on Friday, the 3rd April, by Hrvatske autoceste d.o.o.
Budget: 311.000.000,00 HRK net. (cca. 41.000.000,00 EUR)
Deadline of completion: 31.10.2016

Details:
AUTOCESTA A5 BELI MANASTIR – OSIJEK – SVILAJ, DIONICA: BELI MANASTIR – OSIJEK, IZGRADNJA I. FAZE OD BELOG MANASTIRA DO MOSTA DRAVA - from km 5+650,00 to km 23+308,31 
Mostly in half profile, just before Drava bridge extension to full (2x2) profile.
Open public procurement
Deadline for bid submission: 14.05.2015. 10:00 

http://hac.hr/hr/javna-nabava
https://eojn.nn.hr/SPIN/application...ciFrm.aspx?OznakaDokumenta=2015/S+002-0014356


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## horizon286

I really admire how fast and efficient you can build highways. Greetings from Slovakia


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## ChrisZwolle

*A11*

A11 Buševec - Lekenik will open to traffic tomorrow.

http://www.kronikevg.com/prvi-sat-besplatan-dionica-a11-busevec-lekenik-bit-ce-otvorena-u-srijedu/


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## Puležan

^^


zezi said:


> Današnji foto izvještaj.
> Slikano je kroz šajbu s mobitelom pa ne zamjerite na kvaliteti
> 
> *Velika Gorica - Buševec*
> 
> Trava pokošena, nanovo obojana horizontalna signalizacija, cestarina funkcionira


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## Puležan

zezi said:


> *Buševec - Lekenik*


...


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## Puležan

zezi said:


> nastavak
> 
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> the end


:cheers:


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## Verso

AADT 500.


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## bzbox

Will we see A11 to Sisak or will we be gone by then?


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## zezi

^^


bzbox said:


> Will we see A11 to Sisak or will we be gone by then?


Will be gone. hno: 
All plans for extention to Sisak are suspended.

AADT for Velika Gorica - Buševec for last year was about 1900.
With this new part open Busevec - Lekenik and with missing part from Zagreb to Velika Gorica which is U/C and will be open before winter there should be increase ih traffic. AADT on existing road from Zagreb to Velika Gorica is over 40000 and from Velika Gorica to Lekenik is about 10000


----------



## MichiH

zezi said:


> missing part from Zagreb to Velika Gorica which is U/C and will be open before winter


Before winter? It was announced to be opened in early summer!?



zezi said:


> Update for Croatia
> Source Croatian goverment
> https://vlada.gov.hr/UserDocsImages//Sjednice/2014/200 sjednica Vlade//200 - 20a.pdf
> 
> A11 - Lekenik - Buševec 01.04.2015.
> A11 - Jakuševec - Velika Gorica 01.07.2014


Is there any update about the u/c sections of D2, D10 or D12 which were announced to be opened in 2015 too?

*D2:* Osijek (Z4085) – Osijek (Z4091) 4.6km (September 2011 to Spring 2015) [2nd c/w] – ? – map
*A11:* Jakusevec (A3) – Velika Gorica 8.5km (2008 to 1st July 2015) – ? – map
*D10:* Gradec – Krizevci 11.5km (? to 2015) – ? – map
*D12:* Vrbovec (A12) – Farkasevac 10.5km (? to 2015) – ? – map


----------



## zezi

Check last post on your thread.I edited my last post. 
It was anounced for September. I hope there wont be more delays


----------



## italystf

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/43.1389/17.4720
I see that the Croatian A1, after Ploce, turns east towards BiH and ends few kilometers after the border, near Medjugorje (incidentally is numbered A1 in BiH too).
Are they planning to connect Dubrovnik via BiH (after works for Peliesac bridge were stopped few years ago) or will it go north towards Mostar, Sarajevo, and eventually Osijek?


----------



## nestvaran

italystf said:


> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/43.1389/17.4720
> I see that the Croatian A1, after Ploce, turns east towards BiH and ends few kilometers after the border, near Medjugorje (incidentally is numbered A1 in BiH too).
> Are they planning to connect Dubrovnik via BiH (after works for Peliesac bridge were stopped few years ago) or will it go north towards Mostar, Sarajevo, and eventually Osijek?


That highway in BIH is called A1 thats not an error. It is part of Vc corridor that stretches to Mostar, Sarajevo, Zenica, Doboj and then further north to Slav. Brod and Osijek in Croatia. So your second guess is right


----------



## Christophorus

The motorway on croatian side after Ploče interchange is signed as A10, not A1. The expressway from the interchange to Ploče is signed as A1 till the Karamatići toll booth.


----------



## Verso

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/43.1181/17.5374

I think continuation of A1 will be here. I just don't know why it's drawn as 2-laned.


----------



## LG_

Hello, are there any plans to exrend A1 to Dubrovnik, building a bridge from Ploce to Trpani?


----------



## zezi

Pelješac Bridge will be built on this location https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/42.9318/17.5371
We hope with EU money ( part od it)

There is still doubt should A1motorway will go to Dubrovnik or expresway.
For now Pelješac Bridge is priority with access roads to avoid pasing through BiH.


----------



## Qtya

What is the lastest update on the A5 Osijek - Hu border section? Could someone bring me up to speed?


----------



## SRC_100

^^
There has been announced tender last time for stretch from Drava bridge (u/c) to Bali Monastir. 
Regarding stretch Bali Monastir - HU border I think that croatian authorities are waiting for hungarian decision. Because if you take a look on the map there is no sens to build A5 north of Bali Monastir if won`t be possible to connect with hungarian M6.


----------



## MichiH

Qtya said:


> What is the lastest update on the A5 Osijek - Hu border section? Could someone bring me up to speed?


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=119962576&postcount=5632
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=122643584&postcount=5744
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=122661652&postcount=5750


----------



## KHS

*[A5] - Drava bridge U/C*



Semper Fidelis said:


> 127413563


:cheers:


----------



## MichiH

^^ Thanks, I found a link from yesterday on the Croatian forum: http://www.osijek031.com/osijek.php?topic_id=56849.



> Google translated: HAC revoked the tender for the works on the motorway between Belog Manastira and Drava bridge today. The reason for this decision is that the HAC in *none of the bidders has offered to the construction within the term*, and in case of breakthrough deadlines in question to prevent withdrawal of a total of 67 million euros from EU funds and to the entire cost fell to HAC.
> To remind, the tender for the works for the section Beli Manastir Most Drava (on the section Beli Manastir-Osijek the A5 motorway Beli Manastir-Osijek-Svilaj) published on April 3 this year, and the *deadline for submission of bids was extended twice due to many requests of potential performers*.
> On the repeated tender HAC and Hungary together to try to reach the co-financing from EU funds and to share Most Drava Mohač.


----------



## darko06

That would be nice, to have a fully completed Motorway all the way from Budapest to Bosnian border (HU M6/HR A5).


----------



## Adayafter

darko06 said:


> That would be nice, to have a fully completed Motorway all the way from Budapest to Bosnian border (HU M6/HR A5).


That would be nice, to have a fully completed motorway all the way from Budapest to Mostar / Ploce /Dubrovnik


----------



## zezi

*Jakusevec Interchange U/C, A11 / A3*
































































:cheers:


----------



## KHS

*[A5] - Drava bridge U/C*



kronher said:


>


:cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

*Pelješac Bridge*

*Minister says construction of Pelješac bridge to start by year end*

Transport Minister Sinisa Hajdas Doncic said on Tuesday that a tender for the construction of a bridge to link the southern peninsula of Pelješac with the mainland could be published in the autumn, while work on the bridge, worth between EUR 200 and 220 million, could begin by the end of this year or in early 2016.​
http://dalje.com/en-croatia/ministe...esac-bridge-to-start-by-year-end-early/548111


----------



## darko06

Could be... Could begin... Preelection tricks.


----------



## darko06

Although, nobody happier than me not to show IDcard to Bosnian border police after 2021, let's say.


----------



## BL2

darko06 said:


> Although, nobody happier than me not to show IDcard to Bosnian border police after 2021, let's say.


Aren't there control from Croatian police as well? Or only Bosnian police is checking IDs?


----------



## iponi

Only Croatian police is checking.


----------



## Eulanthe

BL2 said:


> Aren't there control from Croatian police as well? Or only Bosnian police is checking IDs?


Only the Croatians seem to bother routinely there. Half the time, the BiH police aren't even present - and if they are present, they tend to wave people through.

Never understood why, but it seems that BiH just isn't interested in controlling the Neum corridor.


----------



## celevac

Never seen Bosnian police there. Driven through Neum perhaps 7 times so far, in different seasons of the year. Detailed controls were performed only by Croatian police, quite annoying to be honest (2 out of 7 times I had to unload everything from the car and go through silly questioning at Klek border crossing back into Croatia, only to find out afterwards that they once stole a loaf of bread from my car while I was busy talking to the other policeman. Quite ridiculous if you ask me...).


----------



## dubart

^^
I have seen BiH policemen there, checking ID's...


----------



## ETSman

^^ I hate Croatian border police. They are so slow and the people who are checking passports aren't much faster. It's a pain in the a** to cross the croatian border


----------



## x-type

ETSman said:


> ^^ I hate Croatian border police. They are so slow and the people who are checking passports aren't much faster. It's a pain in the a** to cross the croatian border


the people who are checking passports are usually called police.


----------



## volodaaaa

Hello,

I've got two questions.
1. Do Croatian cestarinas accept Euro?
2. What about border crossing with Serbia. The facility looks so huge. Is that border crossing worse than Röszke (H) - Horgoš (SRB)?


----------



## italystf

1) Yes, even when they weren't in EU.


----------



## BL2

2) worse? 
in what sense? In general it is quite easy to cross there no major checks, very efficient.


----------



## volodaaaa

First, thank you both. I meant about the waiting times. Due to immigrants issue on the south, I decided to avoid Hungary on my journey to holidays.


----------



## BL2

it is ok, there are like two weekends when there are longer waiting time, when turkish gastarbieter go´home.


----------



## nbcee

volodaaaa said:


> Due to immigrants issue on the south, I decided to avoid Hungary on my journey to holidays.


It's not necessary. I assume want to cross the border by driving your car to one of the official checkpoints and not by walking through the bushes, so the situation will not really affect you.

p.s.: you can always check the current waiting times here (it's easy to understand, but if you need translation, just ask):
http://www.police.hu/hirek-es-informaciok/hatarinfo


----------



## Eulanthe

volodaaaa said:


> Hello,
> 
> I've got two questions.
> 1. Do Croatian cestarinas accept Euro?
> 2. What about border crossing with Serbia. The facility looks so huge. Is that border crossing worse than Röszke (H) - Horgoš (SRB)?


1. They do, they even display the price in Euro. You'll get change in Kuna, however. 

2. Unless something has changed, it's much more relaxed than Roszke-Horgos.


----------



## x-type

freight traffic can be an issue on BC Bajakovo. passenger traffic not so much, you must be really unlucky to stuck there. and even then you have BC Tovarnik that Turks don't use.
facility itself is little bit oversized with its 20 passenger lanes, they are never all in function (i'd say that on exit there are never more than 4-5 in use at once).


----------



## Eulanthe

x-type said:


> freight traffic can be an issue on BC Bajakovo. passenger traffic not so much, you must be really unlucky to stuck there. and even then you have BC Tovarnik that Turks don't use.
> facility itself is little bit oversized with its 20 passenger lanes, they are never all in function (i'd say that on exit there are never more than 4-5 in use at once).


That's what annoys me about the various crossings in Croatia - the international ones are mostly (except of course, Zaton Doli/Klek) pretty big, but Croatia doesn't seem to actually open all the lanes. I remember once being stuck at Macelj for nearly an hour, yet Croatia had 3 or 4 lanes unused without reason. 

Nova Sela is another absolutely oversized facility - when I was there, only one lane was open, and there wasn't any queue at all. Doljani had a queue of nearly an hour on the other hand...


----------



## volodaaaa

Thank you guys for the information. The size of the BC has really scared me


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> freight traffic can be an issue on BC Bajakovo. passenger traffic not so much, you must be really unlucky to stuck there.


Like me in December when I had to wait for 3.5 hours to enter Serbia for the first time.


----------



## BL2

if croatia opens all 20 of them it doesnt matter because on the other side there are no 20 lanes.


----------



## tfd543

The waiting times for the borders to Hungary just show 0 in the link. Any other good website for checking ? Thanks.


----------



## SRC_100

^^
http://www.amss.org.rs/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=511&Itemid=210


----------



## ETSman

x-type said:


> the people who are checking passports are usually called police.


Yes, of course. My bad! 

That still doesn't change anything haha


----------



## x-type

tfd543 said:


> The waiting times for the borders to Hungary just show 0 in the link. Any other good website for checking ? Thanks.


you will really hardly find something else except 0 appearing at section H-HR borders  the only thing that could happen is maybe 15-20 min waiting at Letenye/Goričan in peak summer weekends.


----------



## Eulanthe

x-type said:


> you will really hardly find something else except 0 appearing at section H-HR borders  the only thing that could happen is maybe 15-20 min waiting at Letenye/Goričan in peak summer weekends.


Meanwhile being stuck for hours at HR-non EU crossings is normal in summer 

I remember a monumental queue last summer at Karasovici/Vitaljina - I was coming from the MNE direction with a queue of around 30 seconds, but the border police told me at Vitaljina that the queue was already 4-5 hours at Karasovici and at least 3 hours so far at Vitaljina.


----------



## BL2

^^it is not normal, there are 3 days like that.


----------



## zezi

Latest design of Peljesac bridge was presented yesterday, with acces roads.
Two lanes, with emergency lanes, lenght 2402m, 55m hight over sea level.
Acces roads including new road on Peljesac peninsula will be also two lane road.
Bridge cost about 200 mil €, total cost with roads 380 mil €.





































http://www.hrvatske-ceste.hr/default.aspx?id=254


----------



## keber

Does this bridge design allow later expansion to 2+2? It looks almost wide enough.

Also are there any plans for bridges across bays of Slano and Zaton that would make access over D8 to Dubrovnik considerably faster?


----------



## italystf

They should have planned it with four lanes, in order to be suitable to carry the future A1 motorway between Ploce and Dubrovnik.


----------



## keber

There won't be any motorway here.
And frankly speaking I think it is not needed, traffic is not that high, also transit should go above Dubrovnik through BiH. What Dubrovnik needs in my opinion is a quality connection with the rest of Croatia and that could be done with a two lane road and designed speed limit of at least 80 km/h all the way.


----------



## zezi

keber said:


> Does this bridge design allow later expansion to 2+2? It looks almost wide enough.
> 
> Also are there any plans for bridges across bays of Slano and Zaton that would make access over D8 to Dubrovnik considerably faster?


I dont think so couse during presentation it was said it will be two lane with emergency ( narrow) lanes.

There are no such plans, i think it it becouse their trying to preserve those two bays .
Instead there is a plan for motorway/expressway or another road more inland, near the border.


----------



## keber

I think both bays would be better preserved with bridges. Now all traffic runs right through middle of both towns and right beside beaches.
And realistically, I don't see any possibility of an expressway or motorway in foreseeable future if there is an international plan to build a transit motorway just 10-15 km north of it even if it is in another country. Even in high peak summer weekends it doesn't look to be enough traffic on D8 to justify a 2+2 expressway.


----------



## i15

a little OT: is it legal to have dashcam on when crossing the HR border? I've read somewhere that it is illegal. I would like to record my journey through HU and HR


----------



## italystf

keber said:


> There won't be any motorway here.
> And frankly speaking I think it is not needed, traffic is not that high, also transit should go above Dubrovnik through BiH. What Dubrovnik needs in my opinion is a quality connection with the rest of Croatia and that could be done with a two lane road and designed speed limit of at least 80 km/h all the way.





keber said:


> I think both bays would be better preserved with bridges. Now all traffic runs right through middle of both towns and right beside beaches.
> And realistically, I don't see any possibility of an expressway or motorway in foreseeable future if there is an international plan to build a transit motorway just 10-15 km north of it even if it is in another country. Even in high peak summer weekends it doesn't look to be enough traffic on D8 to justify a 2+2 expressway.


And the long-awaited plan for the Adriatic-Jonian motorway between Italy and Greece?


----------



## ukraroad

italystf said:


> And the long-awaited plan for the Adriatic-Jonian motorway between Italy and Greece?


And where is albania then? Not earlier than 2030:bash:


----------



## stickedy

keber said:


> I think both bays would be better preserved with bridges. Now all traffic runs right through middle of both towns and right beside beaches.
> And realistically, I don't see any possibility of an expressway or motorway in foreseeable future if there is an international plan to build a transit motorway just 10-15 km north of it even if it is in another country. Even in high peak summer weekends it doesn't look to be enough traffic on D8 to justify a 2+2 expressway.


What international plan? There's just a bold imagination of JP Autoceste FBiH to build the Adriatic-Ionian motorway through BiH. Too bad that the area north of Dubrovnik where the motorway could be built belongs to Republika Srpska and not the Federation. And more worse: Republika Srpska has no plan for a motorway there...

Oh, and don't forget that BiH is more or less bankrupt and they don't have money to built the important motorways and expressways (e.g. A1, motorway to Zenica - Tuzla, motoway Dobolj - Brcko and so on) so where should the money come from to build a motorway there. That plan is just a figment...


----------



## čarli1

stickedy said:


> Oh, and don't forget that BiH is more or less bankrupt and they don't have money to built the important motorways and expressways (e.g. A1, motorway to Zenica - Tuzla, motoway Dobolj - Brcko and so on) so where should the money come from to build a motorway there. That plan is just a figment...


Zenica and Tuzla are not in Republika Srpska And there is no plan that motorway between these two towns will be ever built. Doboj - Odžak (and not Brčko as you wrote) is planned and will be built eventually. Maybe/probably as a PPP...


----------



## stickedy

čarli;125736576 said:


> Zenica and Tuzla are not in Republika Srpska


I did not claim that! I speak of BiH as whole.



> And there is no plan that motorway between these two towns will be ever built.


Of course there's the plan:










If it will ever be built is another story...



> Doboj - Odžak (and not Brčko as you wrote) is planned and will be built eventually. Maybe/probably as a PPP...


I didn't speak about A1 / corridor V in that case (as I mentioned it before) but about the west-east motorway towards Serbia. But you're right, JP Autoputevi Republike Srpske plans to avoid Brcko but build the motorway south of Brcko... Too bad that this territory of the Federation... :bash: I mixed that up with planned Tuzla-Brcko (-Orasje) of JP Autocesta FBiH...

But I have to correct myself, JP Autoputevi Republike Srpske really plans a connection north of Dubrovnik. But as expressway ("Brzi put", the english legend is wrong) not as motorway. But that don't change much: There's no money for it.


----------



## BL2

stickedy said:


> JP Autoputevi Republike Srpske plans to avoid Brcko but build the motorway south of Brcko... Too bad that this territory of the Federation... :bash:


You have mixed up everything. RS doesn't plan to build motorway around Brcko trough federation territory, but Brcko district is planing to do that, through Brcko district territory.
And that map is outdated.


----------



## x-type

stickedy said:


> What international plan? There's just a bold imagination of JP Autoceste FBiH to build the Adriatic-Ionian motorway through BiH. Too bad that the area north of Dubrovnik where the motorway could be built belongs to Republika Srpska and not the Federation. And more worse: Republika Srpska has no plan for a motorway there...


but they have plan to build an international airport there :lol:


----------



## stickedy

BL2 said:


> You have mixed up everything. RS doesn't plan to build motorway around Brcko trough federation territory, but Brcko district is planing to do that, through Brcko district territory.


Pardon? Look at the maps above... It's not a secret that the plans of both entities doesn't match each other.



> And that map is outdated.


It's the one posted on the website of JP Autoputevi Republike Srpske. If there are other plans, don't blame me, blame JP Autoputevi Republike Srpske for outdated informations. But I guess there's even no money for updating documents...


----------



## cinxxx

x-type said:


> but they have plan to build an international airport there :lol:


If it will be one where low cost flights land, I'm waiting for it 
Perfect airport for visiting Dubrovnik area


----------



## BL2

stickedy said:


> Pardon? Look at the maps above... It's not a secret that the plans of both entities doesn't match each other.


I dont have to look at the wrong maps. 



stickedy said:


> It's the one posted on the website of JP Autoputevi Republike Srpske. If there are other plans, don't blame me, blame JP Autoputevi Republike Srpske for outdated informations. But I guess there's even no money for updating documents...


I don't have to blame anyone, I am just telling you the truth so that you know as well. Yes there is no money to update map, satisfied? 
What a bias


----------



## nestvaran

stickedy said:


> It's the one posted on the website of JP Autoputevi Republike Srpske. If there are other plans, don't blame me, blame JP Autoputevi Republike Srpske for outdated informations. But I guess there's even no money for updating documents...


Now it's pretty obvious that this guy is trolling, besides that he doesn't have a clue what he is talking about


----------



## ChrisZwolle

BL2 said:


> I dont have to look at the wrong maps.
> 
> 
> I don't have to blame anyone, I am just telling you the truth so that you know as well. Yes there is no money to update map, satisfied?
> What a bias


You may want to take a more friendly approach to others. I see you mouthing off everyone all the time. You don't make friends that way and cause people to lose interest in these threads you post in.


----------



## BL2

I think you quoted wrong person, because I have explained to this guy that the maps are wrong and that what is he saying is not true. And he replays me in cynic way and you are warning me? 

let me quote it to you



> But I guess there's even no money for updating documents.


----------



## stickedy

I'm not saying that it's not true that there are other maps, I just said that those are the official maps of both JP FBiH and JP Autoputevi Republike Srpske. There are no other maps on their websites. I can't look on other maps than the official ones...

Look by yourselves:
http://www.autoputevirs.com/aprs/Doc.aspx?cat=2&subcat=107&lang=cir&id=206&br=0
http://jpautoceste.gmapa.ba/2011030819/strategija-razvoja-autocesta

And about the financial situation in BiH:
http://www.bosniatoday.ba/no-money-from-imf-bosnia-must-cut-spending/

It's no secret hat BiH lacks money for infrastructure projects... It's the same e.g. in Croatia and Montenegro. And not my fault. I wish there would be another situation...


----------



## BL2

you wouldn't wish that, but that is not the topic. The fact is the map from site autoputevirs is not precise and not relevant. For someone who is so in motorway construction you are quite ignorant.


----------



## stickedy

Then, would you please be so kind and give us other informations?


----------



## BL2

yes
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=125746203&postcount=5818


----------



## stickedy

BL2 said:


> yes
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=125746203&postcount=5818


A bit more "official" informations, e.g. a map or press article would be a little bit more hmm reliable...


----------



## BL2

^^
*Brcko*
http://www.putevibrcko.ba/obilaznica?pismo=cir


----------



## nestvaran

Brčko bypass is not part of Doboj-Bijeljina highway, it's just a regular state road (magistralni put)


----------



## BL2

^^it is, but in the 1st phase it will be half-profile with roundabouts, second phase will be upgrading it to full profile. 











Blue doted line (below red one) is normal highway, red line is motorway, part of Vukoslavlje-Bijeljina motorway. 
here is the link for the detailed map

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7045/6946965315_815c5f26c5_o.jpg


----------



## stickedy

Thanks for the links. So, it seems they have corrected the alignment there. Okay, however, I hope everyone who looks at the maps realizes that there are many more much more important motorways and expressways planned in BiH that an unimportant motorway (for BiH!) between Metkovic and Trebinje (or border to MNE).

And looking how long it takes to build just a bypass for a city, you can imagine how long it would take that there would really be built a motorway there...


----------



## BL2

that mtwy only makes sense if it is part of bigger project, alone without mwy in MNE, HR, AL and GRE is useless.


----------



## italystf

BL2 said:


> that mtwy only makes sense if it is part of bigger project, alone without mwy in MNE, HR, AL and GRE is useless.


Yes, it would be a very important project for SE Europe. Currently there are more than 1,100 km virtually without motorways between Ploce (HR) and Kalamata (GR).
https://www.google.it/maps/dir/Ploč...f02f9ba942826f5!2m2!1d22.0953297!2d37.0737783
It would also benefit tourism to Greece, as it will make feasible to drive from Trieste to Igoumenitsa in a day.


----------



## stickedy

BL2 said:


> that mtwy only makes sense if it is part of bigger project, alone without mwy in MNE, HR, AL and GRE is useless.


Yes, of course. However, the biggest gap today is Montenegro. Without a proper connection on the other side of the border, a motorway or expressway from Metkovic to Trebinje is just a waste of money.

BTW, in Greece the A5 in Greece from Patras to Ioaninna is under construction and will be read in the next years. The missing gap to the border is not that big. And in Albania you have at least some level of expressway or a good and wide national road on about 90% of the whole stretch. So this two countries aren't really a problem and traffic is low at moment. Albania could expand most parts to 2x2 easily.

But Montenegro is a problem. They are currently building the first part of their north-south motorway. It will take several years to finish and before that, constructing a new motorway is impossible - if it won't be financed by EU. I don't expect beginning of constructing an east-west motorway in Montenegro before 2025.

In my opinion, Croatia will built an expressway from Doli to Dubrovnik Airport if the bridge is financed by EU. And that will be before 2025.


----------



## stickedy

italystf said:


> It would also benefit tourism to Greece, as it will make feasible to drive from Trieste to Igoumenitsa in a day.


That's already possible, it takes about 20 hours with breakes. Either about 1500 km on motorways/expressways though Serbia or about 1250 km through Montenegro. However, a complete motorway or expressway would be much better. At least it's urgent to make something in Montenegro. It's a mess there


----------



## italystf

stickedy said:


> That's already possible, it takes about 20 hours with breakes. Either about 1500 km on motorways/expressways though Serbia or about 1250 km through Montenegro. However, a complete motorway or expressway would be much better. At least it's urgent to make something in Montenegro. It's a mess there


Driving 20 hours in a day is very difficult, and also dangerous if you're the only driver. With the Adriatic-Ionian motorway complete (including Divaca-Jelsane in SLO and A7 all the way to A1 in HR), it will probably take around 12 hours.


----------



## BL2

stickedy said:


> Yes, of course. However, the biggest gap today is Montenegro. Without a proper connection on the other side of the border, a motorway or expressway from Metkovic to Trebinje is just a waste of money.
> 
> BTW, in Greece the A5 in Greece from Patras to Ioaninna is under construction and will be read in the next years. The missing gap to the border is not that big. And in Albania you have at least some level of expressway or a good and wide national road on about 90% of the whole stretch. So this two countries aren't really a problem and traffic is low at moment. Albania could expand most parts to 2x2 easily.
> 
> But Montenegro is a problem. They are currently building the first part of their north-south motorway. It will take several years to finish and before that, constructing a new motorway is impossible - if it won't be financed by EU. I don't expect beginning of constructing an east-west motorway in Montenegro before 2025.
> 
> In my opinion, Croatia will built an expressway from Doli to Dubrovnik Airport if the bridge is financed by EU. And that will be before 2025.


Albanian road connection are normal "magistralas" the same roads you have in MNE and BiH, we are talking about real motorways here.


----------



## zezi

A5 - Drava bridge



Rocky031 said:


> SiB.hr


----------



## Eulanthe

zezi said:


> Did you drive on D8 between Maslenica and Senj?


No, never. I thought about it when coming from Gospic, but went over the mountains instead. 

That ferry must have been one of the few cases of a (previously) viable coastal line, I guess?

Speaking of the D8 in general, why is it in such bad condition in some areas? I'm staying between Split and Omis, and what surprises me is the lack of street lights and pavements at some points.


----------



## zezi

Between Maslenica and Senj D8 is very curvy, doesnt have much traffic and fun to drive but also very tirering.

Why is D8 like that?
Lots of reasons. Road is conecting and passing through urban areas , houses were build around main road, service ( paralel ) roads havent been build, due to tourism prices of land Is very high, and area for building between bila and se is very narrow. Nowdays is too expensive to make big diference. Thats reason why motorway was build inland.

Anyway - i sugest you visit Cetina river from Omiš inland. For me very nice place Radmanove mlinice, and some beautiful viev from d70 above Omiš and Zakucac. Also beautiful view from old fort above Omiš. 
Omiš is very nice for me due to combination of mountin, sea and river but traffic and crowds are very exhausting.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The seem to be constructing a new bypass of some sort at Omiš.


----------



## zezi

^^
Yeah. One day it will be finished. Maybe for 50 years. :bash: No money.

It will look like this






































Even tunnel to Cetina on east side is finished but west side have not even started, and no idea when it will be build


----------



## Eulanthe

I'll go and take some pictures tomorrow, but it's very badly needed. The D8 here in Dugi Rat is busy at all hours, and the jam in Omiš is about 2-3km long at night. 

Even getting that bypass of Omiš open from Dugi Rat to Omiš-East would really take a lot of pressure off Omiš from the looks of things. I went over the other night, and traffic was backed up to the entrance of Omiš. Could the EU not be interested in funding it as a measure to relieve the coastal towns?

Zezi - is Omiš a popular place for people from Split to go to? I noticed when walking around there that it was mostly Croatian people walking around - unlike other places. Split was annoyingly full of British people


----------



## zezi

^^
Yes it is. That part have long sand (and small gravel/pebels) beaches, thats why its so popular


----------



## Eulanthe

Today's report : 

The D8 from Split to Trogir is mostly a nice and fast road, but there's an annoying 5km section of single carriageway road. They seem to be building the missing carriageway now, though. Trogir itself is a mess - huge queues at the entrance and police having to control the traffic. Otherwise, everything is thoroughly pleasant - just the traffic is incredibly heavy, but there's not much Croatia can do about that. People drive so slowly here though compared to Poland 

But what is with these very weird signs in Split?

https://www.google.hr/maps/@43.5110...11iH6IK3r0t0h3k6sLvQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Next mission - Dugi Rat to Metkovic on Saturday morning. And as I like to be punished, I'll do it on the D8. 

Ten kuna says I'm going to be taken to the divorce court after this holiday


----------



## zezi

Near Trogir new bridge is UC with EU money, it will make life easyer couse on Island of Ciovo there are lots of apartments for tourist, and weekend houses.

Suggestion - if you dont want to loose time in Omiš ( pronašli about 2 HRS in jams) go dugi rat - Split - A1- Šestanovac Exit- back to D8. In kilometers it is much longer but it will be faster and you will still see D8.
Another idea - When you reach Makarska use D512 - that is road with beautiful view. 


Anyway - if you dont want to go to Omiš go around especialy on saturday 
PS. You are going on maraton lađa ( old river boat race)? Thats nice. It will be crowded


----------



## Eulanthe

I'll leave tomorrow morning from Croatia for the next part of my holiday in Bosnia, so I hope Omiš will be okay early in the morning  I didn't know about the maraton lađa, but now that you've mentioned it... I hope traffic won't be too insane early in the morning in the direction of BiH 

Is the bridge in Trogir connected to the upgrade of D8? It looks so badly needed - that existing bridge to Ciovo (as well as Ciovo itself) was just choked with traffic.


----------



## zezi

^^
Dont use border crosing in Metković center. It is alway a long wait. On Motorway is much better.

Ciovo bridge and D8 upgrade are seperate projects, but they are U/C at same time and both cofinanced by EU.
Building Ciovo bridge live http://www.viadukt.hr/gradiliste-mosta-kopno-otok-ciovo


Here http://www.hak.hr/en ( Croatian autoclub) you can check contions on roads and border crosing.


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## Eulanthe

I'm planning to go through Nova Sela, yes - it's the only option on summer Saturdays it seems. I'll try Gabela Polje first, but if it's jammed, then there's the other one north of Metkovic towards Bijaca that should be ok. If that fails...Nova Sela it is


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## nestvaran

I crossed on Gabela Polje a few days ago and waited for like 5 mins while radio reported huge jam on Doljani and 1 hr waiting there


----------



## Eulanthe

nestvaran said:


> I crossed on Gabela Polje a few days ago and waited for like 5 mins while radio reported huge jam on Doljani and 1 hr waiting there


Fingers crossed that it will be clear, then  

Then again, I almost want there to be a jam so I can have an excuse to cross both directions on foot...


----------



## x-type

Eulanthe said:


> I made the most stupid mistake of my life today.
> 
> I drove from Zagreb to Split on the A1. Yes. I know. You can laugh.
> 
> Anyway, carnage at Lucko (the jam was starting on the Zagreb bypass), so I drove to Exit 1 and entered the motorway there. From there to the A6 junction was tolerable, although there were 3 jams that lasted for around 10 minutes each for no real reason apart from various idiots of different nationalities driving like morons.
> 
> After the A6, again no major problems - one jam was just before one tunnel, but okay, nothing major. Traffic was very very heavy, but again, tolerable. But Croatian Radio kept reporting a huge jam from the Gospic junction to the entrance of the Sveti Rok tunnel. So we exited at Gospic and asked at the toll station, and apparently there was a huge jam on both sides of the tunnel. Apparently there was a 10km jam in the direction of Zagreb, and a huge jam in the direction of Zadar.
> 
> So we went over the mountains instead to Maslenica. I have to admit - I was very very impressed with the D50, D27 and D54. Those roads are a real drivers dream, especially the D27.
> 
> Anyway, from Maslenica to Split was fine. Plenty upon plenty of retards on the road, but all in all, tolerable. What seems to cause all the carnage on the A1 is the amount of tourist idiots sitting on the left lane. People were driving 80 on the right lane (why, why?!) - but there were also plenty of idiots sitting at 110 on the left lane.
> 
> A question - how new is the D1 from Split to the A1 junction? That road is amazing...
> 
> Anyway, I've done the A1 on a summer weekend and never, ever again


i made the most stupid mistake of my life yesterday. i took D27/D1 instead of A1 returning back from my vacation. as soon as i reached D1 (btw i took whole D27 in the whole length) i was caught by speed camera placed just to feed those bastards in various ministries (50 km/h zone in so-called inhabited area, although the road was surrounded by meadows on that stretch). it pissed me off so i sweared that i will never save 20€ for tolls anymore. (after 15min of talking and checking my shoes number, officer just left me go with some warning because he offered me lower fine, but i insisted on the highest possible - it's my tactic, attack is the best defense  ).


----------



## keber

Is there any information available about new speed controls on A7 Rijeka Bypass toward Krk? I saw some boxes, are they already operative on some stretches with ridiculous speed limits like 60 or 70 km/h?


----------



## x-type

keber said:


> Is there any information available about new speed controls on A7 Rijeka Bypass toward Krk? I saw some boxes, are they already operative on some stretches with ridiculous speed limits like 60 or 70 km/h?


- here on western entrance to tunnel Škurinje II 

-here before exit Diračje westbound.

-southern exit from the city in the tunnel Pećine around the intersection inside the tunnel on this location

-exit Draga westbound here

-and 5 more locations inside the city, mostly along D8

They have nicely equipped Rijeka.


----------



## Eulanthe

Okay, going on from "stupid mistakes".

I made the stupid mistake of trying to go from Bihać to Macelj last Saturday. Even more of a disaster than two weeks ago, because after crossing at Licko Petrovo Selo at 17:30...

D1 from Plitvice-Karlovac was dreadful. Constant tourist brake-at-every-bend traffic, endless towns and a whole lot of frustration. The whole road needs some sort of parallel route, but I guess the road is fine from September-May. 

D1 in Karlovac was nice, but what's going on here? https://www.google.pl/maps/@45.4753...psS7jx-9vKINaG961RFA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

A1 towards Zagreb was utterly rubbish. Traffic reports suggested a 3km jam at Lucko, so I took the last exit and went over to the A3 instead. Painless, can't complain.

A2 was full of morons, and the radio suggested a 6km jam in front of the Krapina junction, so we got stuck in a small jam and managed to exit at the Sveti Križ Začretje exit instead. It transpired when heading north that the Krapina junction had been totally closed (no idea why...) and that traffic was in a complete mess. Kept driving up to Durmanec, where it became obvious that there was also a huge mess in front of the Trakošćan toll station. Bypassed that as well, then went to see how bad the situation was in front of Macelj. That was also horrendous, so an attempt was made to sneak into Slovenia using the old border crossing...that failed, so we went to Hum na Sutli instead.

Of course, I checked when I got home, and discovered a border crossing not far from Trakošćan


----------



## Des

Eulanthe said:


> D1 from Plitvice-Karlovac was dreadful. Constant tourist brake-at-every-bend traffic, endless towns and a whole lot of frustration. The whole road needs some sort of parallel route, but I guess the road is fine from September-May.


 I drove there in October and the whole D1 from Split past Plitvice to the Zagreb motor way was empty.

Ps what is up with the border crossing at Licko Petrovo Selo? I passed there last year and it seems a bit extreme in size for the small roads it is connecting? Again there were no other cars when I was there.


----------



## keber

Eulanthe said:


> Okay, going on from "stupid mistakes".


You have experienced the most chaotic traffic weekend this season as everyone were on the roads so don't blame it to yourself much.
On Sunday I've been in several jams and thanks to GPS navigation I didn't spend much in those jams as I found nice detours with almost no traffic.

It is strange however: At tunnel Učka toll station toward Rijeka almost no one used bank cards for toll payment. I was *alone *in rightmost queue which was reserved for ENC and fast automatic bank/credit card payments as everyone rather used cash in about 1 km long jam.


----------



## x-type

Eulanthe said:


> D1 in Karlovac was nice, but what's going on here? https://www.google.pl/maps/@45.4753...psS7jx-9vKINaG961RFA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en


it will be bypass of Turanj one day.. the bridge over Korana is already made, however, it is known as one of the most stupid pre-elections ass kissings. just after the elections the construction site was abandoned and since 2009 it stands just like that


----------



## BL2

there you can see it on google
https://www.google.at/maps/place/Tu...2!3m1!1s0x47643d9d82139b83:0x142037fb51c9bcb9


----------



## Eulanthe

Des said:


> I drove there in October and the whole D1 from Split past Plitvice to the Zagreb motor way was empty.


That explains it, it was silly summer Saturday in Croatia anyway  What was it like to drive? 



> Ps what is up with the border crossing at Licko Petrovo Selo? I passed there last year and it seems a bit extreme in size for the small roads it is connecting? Again there were no other cars when I was there.


It's because Licko Petrovo Selo is one of the border crossings at which fruit and vegetables may be exported (one of only 6, I believe). I'm not sure if BiH actually can export them since the Croatian accession to the EU, but the possibility exists at least.

From what I remember, Licko Petrovo Selo was funded and was seen as the "future of Balkan border crossings" - so there was a sort of political element to it too. There are high hopes in BiH of really making something out of the Una, so what seems to be an over-engineered crossing right now might actually turn out to be needed. Anyway, in summer, it's heavily used - 10-15 minute waits there are normal most days.


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## stickedy

Izacic - Licko Petrovo Selo is the main crossing from Western BiH (Bihac region) to Croatia. And there are plans to build an expressway in BiH to Izacic which would increase traffic.


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## bogdymol

Next week I will drive to Croatia on holiday. My route will be from north (Slovenia, nearby Trieste in Italy), to Rijeka, then Split and then further south until Dubrovnik (including passing through those 10 km in Bosnia). The section between Rijeka and south of Split (Brela to be more exact) I will do it next Sunday. Would there be serious issues with high values of traffic?

At the return I will drive from Dubrovnik to Plitvice Lakes, then Zagreb and then to Romania (I still haven't decided if from Zagreb I will drive through Budapesta and then Szeged and Romania, or through Osijek).

I understood that credit cards are accepted to pay the motorway toll. Are there special lanes for credit cards (like in Italy for example), or all lanes are for both cards and cash? I understood one time that, during the peak season, it is better to pay by card as it goes faster. Is that so?

I also understood that you can pay in cash with Euros. What's the exchange rate? Is this valid on all motorway exits?

Any other suggestions are welcome


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## stickedy

Do you want to drive the whole route on D8? Then you would need about 8 to 10 hours from Rijeka to Brela! You can't drive very fast on the coastal road. Keep that in mind. Traffic is most likey dense in Split and perhaps in Omis, but it should not be a major problem.

On the normal toll booths (at the exit of motorway) you can pay with credit card and cash on the same booths. The exchange rate Kuna - Euro is close to the "official" exchange rate (no extra amount like in Macedonia) and you get Kuna back. It's a nice way to get yourself some Kuna.

There's a big toll station just before Zagreb, coming from the south (Lucko). There you have a complete toll station for payment with card a few kilometers before the cash toll station. If you pick that one you normally avoid some traffic jam. It's signed very well.


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## zezi

@ Bogdymol
In adition with stickedy answer: Rijeka - Split ( Brela)using D8 will be very slow and exhausting to drive. In that case junction A7/D8 end of Rijeka bypass could be jamed ( Krk island /bridge ) . Also Omiš will be jamed.
In my opinion combination A6/A1 is better choice if you want to arrive fast. Exit Šestanovac ( if you want to avoid tunel Sv. Ilija Biokovo It has seperate toll). No jams are expected.

Only toll with seperate payment and faster payment with credit card is on A1 before Zagreb - Demerje. Other dont have separate credit card payment. Anyway on toll boot will be sign. FYI -ENC is electronic payment with device.


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## bogdymol

I never said I will drive on the coastal route from Rijeka until Split.

I'll use a combination of motorway and coastal route. My ideea is: departing Rijeka on Sunday morning, driving on E65 (non-motorway) south to Senj, then A1 motorway until Split. Taking a walk in Split, then driving on the coastal route to Brela. Next day, driving from Brela to Dubrovnik on the motorway (as long as the motorway exists).


----------



## i15

I drove from Goričan to Makarska on saturday august 22nd around noon. There were short delay when entering A1 at Lučko and quite high traffic on the way towards Karlovac. Traffic flow stoped once for mysterious reason, probably because of truck driving uphill slowly 

After we passed Bosiljevo, traffic was OK in our direction, but we saw huge jam in opposite direction between Zadar and Sveti Rok tunnel.

Driving home on staurday august 29th afternoon was fine. At Zagreb, I chosed Demerje toll station where you pay with bank card and I didn't wait longer than 1 minute. Cars driving through "cash only" station Lučko were standing in 2km long queue


----------



## x-type

bogdymol said:


> I never said I will drive on the coastal route from Rijeka until Split.
> 
> I'll use a combination of motorway and coastal route. My ideea is: departing Rijeka on Sunday morning, driving on E65 (non-motorway) south to Senj, then A1 motorway until Split. Taking a walk in Split, then driving on the coastal route to Brela. Next day, driving from Brela to Dubrovnik on the motorway (as long as the motorway exists).


good idea. enter A1 at Žuta Lokva (near Senj). you have good car, it will not be a problem for you to climb from Senj to motorway entrance (cca 700 m difference in only 15 km).
Split - Brela also take longer route via A1 because D8 just south of Split is a disaster even out of touristic season (although when you climb back to motorway, you will lose enough time as you will lose in queues between Split and Omiš, so you chose).

when going back, take motorway all the way to Gornja Ploča, and there take exit to D1 which you will join in Udbina.

you can expect higher volumes of traffic only near larger cities in September.

about tolls - along A7 and A1 which you will be using, just use manual lanes, there you can pay with cards (mostly manned way, so you give to cashier your card). when going back, approaching Zagreb take turn to toll plaza Demerje 5 km before Zagreb. there you have 10 unmanned lanes which are all combined electronic toll + card payment (jsut stay away of 2 "fast enc" lanes, they are only for electronic tolling, but you will notice it).


----------



## martin0102

I did the same route pre-last friday morning: Rijeka- A7xD8 good, A7xD8 was full-10 minutes queue, D8-Senj was totally full 60-70kmh, no chance to oovertake. I was so exhausted so I took Exit Žuta Lokva and get to Ploče on highway. It was empty.
Then from Ploče to Dubrovnik I drive in dense traffic because of weather (rainy). BiH borders was good (maybe 2 minutes each).
Safe ride and nice holidays


----------



## Eulanthe

Make sure to listen to the Croatian Automobile Club reports too - they're every hour on HR2 (I think...?). The English speaking guy this summer is constantly drunk, just to add to the comedy value of it all. He sounds like a pirate that's drinking rum. When I was driving from Zagreb to Split, it actually seemed like he was getting more and more drunk as the day progressed.


----------



## bogdymol

x-type said:


> you have good car, it will not be a problem for you to climb from Senj to motorway entrance (cca 700 m difference in only 15 km).


I climbed on Saturday on a road with 21% incline in Austria. It should be fine 

Thank you all for the suggestions :cheers:


----------



## vespafrederic

Regarding A1 motorway what is the plan to solve the Neum corridor issue? The Peljesac bridge is cancelled? Are there any timeline when will the motorway reach Dubrovnik?


----------



## MichiH

^^ No.

The issue has already been discussed many times in this thread.


----------



## vespafrederic

MichiH said:


> ^^ No.
> 
> The issue has already been discussed many times in this thread.


Sorry for asking it, I just take my holidays in Dalmatia, and yesterday I was visiting Neum. I saw some abandoned construction sites, which was look like some kind of bridge construction.


----------



## Gedeon

vespafrederic said:


> Sorry for asking it, I just take my holidays in Dalmatia, and yesterday I was visiting Neum. I saw some abandoned construction sites, which was look like some kind of bridge construction.


Pelješac bridge construction will most likely resume next year (now under EU funding), but motorway won't go over it. Only a new state road connection.

Most likely motorway will go through BiH (behind Dubrovnik) to Montenegro. There is simply not enough space in Croatia to build a motorway to Dubrovnik without it being an eyesore.


----------



## vespafrederic

Gedeon said:


> Pelješac bridge construction will most likely resume next year (now under EU funding), but motorway won't go over it. Only a new state road connection.
> 
> Most likely motorway will go through BiH (behind Dubrovnik) to Montenegro. There is simply not enough space in Croatia to build a motorway to Dubrovnik without it being an eyesore.


Thanks! It means all the motorway will run in the territory of BIH, or just at the Neum territory?


----------



## x-type

i think that expressway through Croatian teritory will be built much sooner than the motorway through BIH in direction south.


----------



## Gedeon

vespafrederic said:


> Thanks! It means all the motorway will run in the territory of BIH, or just at the Neum territory?


Motorway will leave Croatia at Metković (where it already does) and not return.



x-type said:


> i think that expressway through Croatian teritory will be built much sooner than the motorway through BIH in direction south.


Neither is necessary ATM. D-roads will be suitable for quite some time (30 years, according to Pelješac bridge feasibility study).


----------



## zezi

^^
Not yet.
Still waiting for official announcement for opening dates for both roads


----------



## bumbar

Official announcement of the Croatian Ministry of traffic and infrastructure:
Jakuševec - Velika Gorica, 10.9km, will be opened tomorrow, tuesday, 3.11.2015. Construction works of the mentioned LOT has started in April 2006.

Also, part of the southern Osijek bypass, 4.6.km, is announced to be opened on Wednesday, 4.11.2015. This is a part that bypasses a centre of a city Osijek on the south side. Construction works has started in Sep 2011.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Apparently they spent € 74 million on expropriation. I checked historical imagery in Google Earth, but only a few houses had to be demolished. Is agricultural land so expensive around Zagreb?

http://www.mppi.hr/default.aspx?id=24032


----------



## zezi

ChrisZwolle said:


> Apparently they spent € 74 million on expropriation. I checked historical imagery in Google Earth, but only a few houses had to be demolished. Is agricultural land so expensive around Zagreb?
> 
> http://www.mppi.hr/default.aspx?id=24032


Actually land owners wanted price for contruction land, not agriculture, and there was a lawsuit.Thats why it took so long. Land owners won.


----------



## aledome

Hi everybody, I'm sure that you have already discussed about this on past times but I would like to ask you if there is any news about Autocesta A7 (to Zuta Lokva).

Thanks


----------



## stickedy

Nope. No money, no plan

A new plan for constrcution of motorways and expressway will be made by the new government and it will be published sometime next year. Then we will know something more (at least if something is planned at all)


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> Apparently they spent € 74 million on expropriation. I checked historical imagery in Google Earth, but only a few houses had to be demolished. Is agricultural land so expensive around Zagreb?
> 
> http://www.mppi.hr/default.aspx?id=24032


this new bussiness zone in Buzin (Zagreb southern suburb) produced several millionaires. people earned impossible amounts of money selling their gardens and agricultural properties because they could, especially for American embassy (the southernmost building). probably the same continued with motorway, but even without expropriation costs the price per km is still incredibly high (11,2 mln eur) for such piece-of-cake motorway (no bridges, no tunnels, no rocks nor mountains, no swams, no anything except meadows). i am sure that local politicians have certain % in that.


----------



## aledome

stickedy said:


> Nope. No money, no plan A new plan for constrcution of motorways and expressway will be made by the new government and it will be published sometime next year. Then we will know something more (at least if something is planned at all)



Thanks


----------



## Puležan

*A11 Zagreb-Velika Gorica*

source: http://www.vgdanas.hr/Info/Clanak/13692/a11-premijer-otvorio-novih-10-9-kilometara.aspx

New section from Jakuševec (A3-A11 interchange) to Velika Gorica-south:










towards Zagreb









towards Velika Gorica
exit #2 Odra-Mlaka









exit #3 Velika Gorica-north




































exit #4 Velika Gorica-south


----------



## bumbar

*Central part of the southern Osijek bypass opened*

Central part of the southern Osijek bypass was officially opened 5.11.2015. The whole length of 2+2 expressway is now 13.2km starting on the west from corridor Vc. They will start with reconstruction of the old, north part of the expressway (bypass) very soon.

Link:
http://www.glas-slavonije.hr/284486/3/Obilaznicom-je-Osijek-dobio-lice-velegrada


----------



## Palance

Puležan said:


> towards Velika Gorica
> exit #2 Odra-Mlaka
> http://www.vgdanas.hr/slike/clanci/13692/a11-vgjug2.jpg


According to this picture, that exit is called Veliko Polje. At least for traffic coming from Sisak, but I suppose exit names are the same from both directions.


----------



## Puležan

Palance said:


> According to this picture, that exit is called Veliko Polje. At least for traffic coming from Sisak, but I suppose exit names are the same from both directions.


True. I wrote the old name from the project. In opposite direction that exit is not signposted with such sign 2000 m before because of the vicinity of 2 exits and an interchange...


----------



## bumbar

*A11:* Jakusevec (A3) – Veliko Polje 8.5km (April 2006 to 3rd November 2015)

Jakusevec (A3) - *Velika Gorica 10.9km* should be written. The rest is OK. Veliko Polje is the next interchange to interchange Jakusevec when you go from A3 (distance is around 2km).


----------



## Adayafter

bumbar said:


> Central part of the southern Osijek bypass was officially opened 5.11.2015. The whole length of 2+2 expressway is now 13.2km starting on the west from corridor Vc. They will start with reconstruction of the old, north part of the expressway (bypass) very soon.
> 
> Link:
> http://www.glas-slavonije.hr/284486/3/Obilaznicom-je-Osijek-dobio-lice-velegrada


To Beli Monastir getting closer


----------



## Adayafter

Hallo! Is here anyone?
What news in Croatia? What about motorway near Osijek?


----------



## stickedy

They are trying to build a new goverment... Don't expect any news on new raods too soon


----------



## Festin

Adayafter said:


> Hallo! Is here anyone?
> What news in Croatia? What about motorway near Osijek?


Ask about motorway to Dubrovnik :troll:


----------



## Adayafter

Festin said:


> Ask about motorway to Dubrovnik :troll:


Why? I don't see a reason for this question. Section near Osijek is now probably the only section motorway A/C in Croatia. And this is a reason of my question.


----------



## Gedeon

The construction is ongoing.


----------



## Festin

Adayafter said:


> Why? I don't see a reason for this question. Section near Osijek is now probably the only section motorway A/C in Croatia. And this is a reason of my question.


It was a joke because questions about motorway to dubrovnik dont get a positive response because it is nothing new there. Even if your question was not about it reminded me about it when you wrote is anyone here


----------



## MichiH

I think it's justified asking about motorway construction progress.

It was announced that construction of the Sava bridge (to BiH) could begin in 2015/16. The same for the construction of the extention from north of the Drava bridge to Beli Manastir close to the Hungarian border (first carriageway only). As mentioned by _stickedy_, Croatia currently tries to get a new government. That means, we do not expect a construction begin, contract awarding or just any reliable announcement of anything about new projects.

In addition to the u/c Drava motorway bridge, there are also two expressways u/c:

*D10:* Gradec – Krizevci 11.5km (? to 2016) – ? – map
*D12:* Vrbovec (A12) – Farkasevac 10.5km (? to 2016) – ? – map

It was announced to be opened in 2015 but I've changed it to 2016 because of the following post. Is there any updated info now? E.g. estimated opening date in early 2016, late 2016, 2017,...



zezi said:


> D10/D12 - Not this year, date unknown
> http://hac.hr/sites/hac.hr/files/cr-...raenja2015.pdf


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## x-type

Gradec - Križevci will definitely be opened next year. branch to Farkaševac tough very probably not.


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## Gedeon

MichiH said:


> In addition to the u/c Drava motorway bridge, there are also two expressways u/c:
> 
> *D10:* Gradec – Krizevci 11.5km (? to 2016) – ? – map
> *D12:* Vrbovec (A12) – Farkasevac 10.5km (? to 2016) – ? – map
> 
> It was announced to be opened in 2015 but I've changed it to 2016 because of the following post. Is there any updated info now? E.g. estimated opening date in early 2016, late 2016, 2017,...


Andraševac-Bedekovčina expressway is also U/C, and it fulfills your criteria:



> If a 2nd carriageway is planned but not yet u/c, the project is added if the other pre-conditions - except barrier - are already fulfilled.


----------



## zezi

*A5 near Osijek U/C*

Part of motorway viaduct U/C over D2 road and railway


kronher said:


> update nadvožnjaka vol.2


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## MichiH

Gedeon said:


> Andraševac-Bedekovčina expressway is also U/C, and it fulfills your criteria:


Thanks, is it this section: > click <? Do you know when construction works began? Do you know the estimated completion date?

What's about the neighboring section (map), it seems that it was opened not long ago? Do you know when works began and when it was opened?

What's the numbering of the road, is it a (future) H road?


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## Gedeon

MichiH said:


> Thanks, is it this section: > click <? Do you know when construction works began? Do you know the estimated completion date?
> 
> What's about the neighboring section (map), it seems that it was opened not long ago? Do you know when works began and when it was opened?
> 
> What's the numbering of the road, is it a (future) H road?


Yup, U/C section is Andraševec-Bedekovčina, and the one recently opened is Mokrice-Andraševec.

*Mokrice (A2)-Andraševec*
Construction start: 2012
Opened: 7/10/2015

*Andraševec-Bedekovčina (U/C)*
Construction start : March 2015
Opening planned: Autumn 2016

*Bedekovčina-Zlatar Bistrica (construction bidding underway)*
Construction start planned: 2016

Road is a D-road, but has no number (yet).

No H roads in Croatia, only A roads (autocesta/motorway) and D roads (državna cesta/state road). Oh, I guess we actually have some B roads (brza cesta/expressway), but only B8/B9 (sections not yet upgraded to A8/A9). It's a bit f$cked up.


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## InterestingStuff

What is happening or what has happened with the A1 from Zagreb to Dubrovnik? Is it complete yet?


----------



## x-type

InterestingStuff said:


> What is happening or what has happened with the A1 from Zagreb to Dubrovnik? Is it complete yet?


just open Google Maps, everything is perfectly up to date there with A1 

or


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## hammersklavier

InterestingStuff said:


> What is happening or what has happened with the A1 from Zagreb to Dubrovnik? Is it complete yet?


Nope, and you can bet that, until a solution for Neum is found, it won't be.

(That said, I'm not sure why work hasn't started on the Doli-Osojnik section yet. That, at least, will be independent of whatever alignment is used to solve Neum.)

(By the by, I think the best solution would be a motorway across the Bosnian corridor with exactly *one* exit: border controls can then be done at that exit, because traffic on the motorway obviously is not going to Bosnia while traffic getting on is leaving Bosnia, and getting off (heh), entering (heh heh). Toll the highway and not only will it pay for itself, easy-peasy, but you then have a way to finance other major projects, such as that road between Mostar and Doboj via Zenica and Sarajevo. It's also probably cheaper than a bridge.)


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## Gedeon

hammersklavier said:


> Nope, and you can bet that, until a solution for Neum is found, it won't be.
> 
> (That said, I'm not sure why work hasn't started on the Doli-Osojnik section yet. That, at least, will be independent of whatever alignment is used to solve Neum.)


Because it isn't planned to build motorway to Dubrovnik on Croatian territory anymore. Only expressway/current road upgrade. And capacity of current road is more than enough for decades to come.


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## stickedy

There's still nothing official about this idea. Just some words of a soon former minister.

The ongoing plan for building roads and motorways which lasts till 2016 lists A1 from Doli to Dubrovnik: http://narodne-novine.nn.hr/clanci/sluzbeni/2014_01_1_32.html

It would be planned if this plan is changed or a new plan is made.

And for the capacity of the current road: No, it's not more than enough in summer months.


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## Gedeon

Ok, dream on if you wish. :lol:


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## keber

stickedy said:


> And for the capacity of the current road: No, it's not more than enough in summer months.


Of course it is enough. I've been on it on few summer weekends (Saturdays and Sundays) in last two years and in my experience overtakings can be done pretty easily on straight sections and traffic density is very low. Even on HR/BiH border crossings I never waited more than 10 minutes.

Of course some straightening of curves would be very nice and also bridges over Zaton and Slano bay.


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## stickedy

Gedeon said:


> Ok, dream on if you wish. :lol:


No need for dreaming, I just said what's the official state. And you should know that this depends on the new government - which will make the new road development plan. We will will see what's official after this plan is created.

That's not only true for A1 (or whatever connection will be planned), but also for other projects, like A7.


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## Gedeon

It mostly depends on money,
of which we don't have any.


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## JackFrost

I think this would be great.



> *Is Croatia set for a change in its motorway financing approach?*
> 
> With the new Croatian government expected to be confirmed on Friday, there are more and more policy initiatives being launched by members of the new parliamentary majority, including those who might quite possibly become ministers in the new government. One of them is Oleg Butković, a high-ranking member of HDZ and a likely candidate for Transport Minister. If he is indeed confirmed as the new minister, one of the most difficult issues for him will be what to do with Croatian Motorways public company, which is heavily indebted due to loans taken out while the motorways were being built more than a decade ago, reports Autostart.hr on January 17, 2016.
> 
> During the election campaign, Butković was very clear: "Vignettes are the only real solution." He advocates a completely different approach to Croatian motorways and traffic safety. According to him, the motorways should not have been built if the only intention is to sell them now. "Such an approach to solving Croatian financial problems might be appropriate for financiers and bankers, but not for those of us who know how to make money from the road infrastructure", said Butković, who is absolutely against the sale of motorways.
> 
> "They are our national treasure which has not been well-managed and they should not be sold for next to nothing just to lower the Croatian public debt. On the contrary, we can make money, and vignettes are one of the central issues. We will do everything to introduce them as soon as possible. We will be better in managing the motorway system. It is nice to see our motorways during the summer when they are full of vehicles, but as soon as the tourist season ends they are eerily empty. Why did we build them at all", asked Butković.
> 
> He is quite right when he warns about the underutilization of motorways. With an average daily traffic of just 12,000 vehicles, it is difficult to make them profitable, since the lower limit of viability is 16,000 vehicles a day, and only the motorway between Zagreb and Lipovac manages to achieve that level of traffic. For Butković, the main task is to provide citizens with the possibility to use the motorways cheaply and to force trucks away from other state and local roads.
> 
> "It would be good to double the traffic, to further increase the income from heavy trucks who now use other major state roads. We have this absurd situation where, due to high prices, truckers are bypassing motorways", added Butković. Trucks are precisely the kind of vehicles on which the Slovenian motorways make the largest profits. Slovenia has forced them to use the motorways and pay for them. Other countries which have a vignette system for toll payment have achieved similar results.
> 
> There are many other reasons for the vignette system to be introduced, instead of the current tollbooth payment collection system. Even the simplest financial calculations show that vignettes would be more profitable for Croatia. According to preliminary estimates, the price of a one-year vignette should be around 130 euros. Today, that is the price of just two journeys from Varaždin to Ploče and back.


https://www.total-croatia-news.com/business/2158-vignettes-coming-to-croatian-motorways


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## italystf

^^Next summer hot topic: 'which is the best alternate route from Pasjak to Rijeka to avoid the vignette for few km of A7?'


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## ChrisZwolle

If you privatize the motorways, you can be sure the toll rates would double or more. There are almost no motorways under a private concession that charge less than € 0.08 per kilometer. I believe the current Croatian toll rate is about € 0.04 per kilometer. 

Some private concessions also have clauses that make the government pay if traffic volumes fall short of expectations. That's the last thing you want.


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## x-type

italystf said:


> ^^Next summer hot topic: 'which is the best alternate route from Pasjak to Rijeka to avoid the vignette for few km of A7?'


at least it is not the problem - there is very good parallel state road. but avioding Rijeka bypass through city centre would be a nightmare.

personally, i don't like idea with vignettes. first of all they should introduce truck tolls (imo the best system is tollcollect like in Germany, define the route and pay for it).
tolling for cars - the best would be that system like in Norway or new Italian motorways (does Portugal have that system too?) based on scanning the car plates. but i don't know how much costs implementation of such system.



ChrisZwolle said:


> If you privatize the motorways, you can be sure the toll rates would double or more. There are almost no motorways under a private concession that charge less than € 0.08 per kilometer. I believe the current Croatian toll rate is about € 0.04 per kilometer.


it is cca 0,06€/km in average


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## Eulanthe

I wonder about the pricing of vignettes in Croatia if that actually happened. The A2 would presumably be excluded from the system, but right now, it's still about 30 Euro to go from Zagreb to the last exit on the A1. If a short term vignette was introduced at 20 Euro, you would see a lot of cars returning to the old State roads on short journeys from the border. 

I would be very happy if I only had to pay 15 Euro for Zagreb to the end of the A1 rather than the current 30, but surely this would result in huge losses in the summer season?

Truck tolls are obvious though, and I'm surprised Croatia hasn't done more to ban trucks from roads such as the run through Plitvice.


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## SRC_100

Some pictures of D2 expresway (already 2x2) from junction with A5 motorway towards Osijek, took on previous week. Enjoy! :cheers2:





































Route


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## John Maynard

JackFrost said:


> I think this would be great.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.total-croatia-news.com/business/2158-vignettes-coming-to-croatian-motorways


^^ Very good news for Croatian people. Slovenia did it since 2008, and now it's a logical turn for Croatia .

As a matter of fact, I was recently in Croatia, took this motorway:
https://www.google.fr/maps/dir/46.2.../@46.0671125,15.5932907,10z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0
which I had to pay 48 HKR (~6,50 €) for only 48 kilometers, and ridiculously even with narrow and tolled 1+1 sections :bash:! That is translated to ~0,14 € per kilometer - I immediately thought that this is very expensive for a not very rich country - no matter why there is so few traffic on its motorways hno:.

I am sure that as soon as the vignette will replace the very expensive tolls, the motorways will be used optimally and most of all - safety and comfort for all drivers - not only for the "rich", and during summer holidays .


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## Eulanthe

What you should have done is come off at Durmanec junction and re-entered immediately to take advantage of the most ridiculous situation ever : 

Zapresic-Trakoscan is 48HRK. But if you come off at an intermediate junction and immediately re-enter (and Durmanec is the easiest one to do this at) - you pay only 33HRK. It's essentially a 2 Euro saving for about 45 minutes seconds extra journey. Absurd, but well, that 2 Euro pays for a couple of coffees. I do it every time out of sheer principle that charging people a 15HRK 'tax' just for going from one point to another is absurd. 

But I'm not sure if it's so logical for Croatia. The EU won't let them impose anything more than 15 Euro/7 days, and I think everyone can agree that someone doing a journey from Zagreb to Dubrovnik should pay more than 15 Euro for the A1. The other problem is that the Zagreb-Macelj motorway is privately owned.


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## Puležan

^^I do the same thing, out of principle. The logic behind that absurdity is to make local/short drives on A2 cheaper and more attracting to local people and to move local/regional transit from local roads (because between Zabok and Krapina there's no other road other than local one; the old "magistrala" was upgraded to A2 on that section).


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## tfd543

Eulanthe said:


> What you should have done is come off at Durmanec junction and re-entered immediately to take advantage of the most ridiculous situation ever :
> 
> Zapresic-Trakoscan is 48HRK. But if you come off at an intermediate junction and immediately re-enter (and Durmanec is the easiest one to do this at) - you pay only 33HRK. It's essentially a 2 Euro saving for about 45 minutes seconds extra journey. Absurd, but well, that 2 Euro pays for a couple of coffees. I do it every time out of sheer principle that charging people a 15HRK 'tax' just for going from one point to another is absurd.
> 
> But I'm not sure if it's so logical for Croatia. The EU won't let them impose anything more than 15 Euro/7 days, and I think everyone can agree that someone doing a journey from Zagreb to Dubrovnik should pay more than 15 Euro for the A1. The other problem is that the Zagreb-Macelj motorway is privately owned.



Yes but taking the exit requires that you go from 120-150 km/h to 40-50 km/h and then accelerate again. It does not cost the earth to slow down your car in fuel but still, isn't it resentive ? I follow your reasoning that people seek to save money and stick to the same pattern but it is just to find the balance between being small-minded and smart.

For the other point, why not ? CH charges the hell of a lot for their roads so why can't HR also follow-up ? I recollect it that CH have different rates for local inhabitants and tourists.


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## Puležan

tfd543 said:


> Yes but taking the exit requires that you go from 120-150 km/h to 40-50 km/h and then accelerate again. It does not cost the earth to slow down your car in fuel but still, isn't it resentive ? I follow your reasoning that people seek to save money and stick to the same pattern but it is just to find the balance between being small-minded and smart.


From the border till Đurmanec exit the speed limit is 110 km/h (100 in tunnels), and from Đurmanec to Krapina it's 60-80-110 (because of the half-profile and couple of tunnels), so it's not such a big deal



> For the other point, why not ? CH charges the hell of a lot for their roads so why can't HR also follow-up ? I recollect it that CH have different rates for local inhabitants and tourists.


EU countries cannot charge different rates to residents and non-residents. Besides, if the vignette price is too high, we might experience the same thing as Slovenia (avoiding motorways by locals and by tourists). Although, if A2 will be incorporated into vignette system, probably everyone would buy it since the trip to the coast is pretty long (A2-A1 / A2-A1-A6-A7-A8-A9).


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## Eulanthe

Puležan said:


> From the border till Đurmanec exit the speed limit is 110 km/h (100 in tunnels), and from Đurmanec to Krapina it's 60-80-110 (because of the half-profile and couple of tunnels), so it's not such a big deal


Exactly, so all things considered, it's worth doing. I'm not so rich that I earn 2 euro for 45 seconds! Even if you count the time spent braking and getting back up to speed, it really can't be more than a minute lost. 



> Besides, if the vignette price is too high, we might experience the same thing as Slovenia (avoiding motorways by locals and by tourists). Although, if A2 will be incorporated into vignette system, probably everyone would buy it since the trip to the coast is pretty long (A2-A1 / A2-A1-A6-A7-A8-A9).


What could perhaps make a lot of sense would be to have an expensive summer vignette during the busiest times, and a cheaper vignette available during the non-tourist months. Croatia could justify it on the grounds that the motorways are a nightmare in summer, but that they want to encourage as much use as possible in winter. 30 Euro/7 days in summer would be fair enough, but should be as little as 7 Euro/7 days in winter. 

(as for Slovenia, avoiding the vignette is great fun )


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## cinxxx

^^I drove in December coming from Varazdin to Ptuj, stayed there over night, then drove further towards Germany. I actually bought the vignette (did it in the evening on arrival to not waste time next day), just for the drive from Ptuj to Austria. I saved around 30 minutes. Had it been summer, maybe I would have taken a toll free alternative, but in December the day is short, so every minute counts, if you don't like driving long in the dark


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## x-type

i don't like that A2 motorway. it is in bad shape, in some weird concession (Strabag has significant part in ownership), end it has freshly refurbished parallel state road D1 which is pleasure to drive. maybe onle Krapina - Zabok is reasonable to take motorway because D1 runs through inhabitted part there, other parts are open road.

btw, I took A2 recently (a week ago), but I was in hurry, i was speeding all the time (cca 160), otherwise I would take D1.


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## John Maynard

Eulanthe said:


> What you should have done is come off at Durmanec junction and re-entered immediately to take advantage of the most ridiculous situation ever :
> 
> Zapresic-Trakoscan is 48HRK. But if you come off at an intermediate junction and immediately re-enter (and Durmanec is the easiest one to do this at) - you pay only 33HRK. It's essentially a 2 Euro saving for about 45 minutes seconds extra journey. Absurd, but well, that 2 Euro pays for a couple of coffees. I do it every time out of sheer principle that charging people a 15HRK 'tax' just for going from one point to another is absurd.


Thank you for you advice, but for the return I did better: took main road, drove longer - well, 15 minutes - and paid 0 HKR :lol:.



Eulanthe said:


> But I'm not sure if it's so logical for Croatia. The EU won't let them impose anything more than 15 Euro/7 days, and I think everyone can agree that someone doing a journey from Zagreb to Dubrovnik should pay more than 15 Euro for the A1. The other problem is that the Zagreb-Macelj motorway is privately owned.


And why shouldn't it be? Apparently, all this motorways construction in Croatia is just a huge booby-trap for tourists, like the whole country remains :troll:



tfd543 said:


> For the other point, why not ? CH charges the hell of a lot for their roads so why can't HR also follow-up ? I recollect it that CH have different rates for local inhabitants and tourists.


Some people like you do have wacky sadistic fantasies :lol:.

Of course, in CH locals and foreigners pay the same price for the vignette, which is 40 CHF (~36,50 €) for 14 months - *one of the cheapest in Europe!* - and is valid for the entire motorways/expressways network, including long alpine tunnels. Can you remind me how much cost a single trip from Zagreb to Dubrovnik, I didn't hear it :speech:?


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## tfd543

Yea youre right. I just remember I bought the CH sticker and only used it for 1 hour some years ago.


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## satanism

Excuse me guys for the rude interruption, but it is crazy to think that at 30 euros for a weekly vignette, a big chunk of transit traffic will not avoid Croatia altogether  There are fine alternatives especially considering the source of most transit journeys.Vignette in Hungary is less than 10 euro and is valid for 10 days, as you all probably know 
And to "rob" tourists that actually came to Croatia to spend their money in the country this way is quite wrong, imo. 
Most probably you will end worse off if this thing comes to life.


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## Attus

That price can be OK if you drive from Slovenia to the coast. But from Hungary to Zagreb, which is currently about 100 kuna (both ways)? And last summer the motorway was limited to 100 almost all the way. 
No way I should pay such a hilarious price.
Not mentioning when I drove to Koprivnica. The toll was approx. 25 kuna (both ways).


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## Puležan

satanism said:


> Excuse me guys for the rude interruption, but it is crazy to think that at 30 euros for a weekly vignette, a big chunk of transit traffic will not avoid Croatia altogether  There are fine alternatives especially considering the source of most transit journeys.Vignette in Hungary is less than 10 euro and is valid for 10 days, as you all probably know
> And to "rob" tourists that actually came to Croatia to spend their money in the country this way is quite wrong, imo.
> Most probably you will end worse off if this thing comes to life.


Of course we won't rob our tourists with the vignette price. We are not like Slovenia :lol: NHF, neighbors :cheers: 

Anyway, 30 EUR for a weekly vignette is not that much considering today's tolls:
- Zagreb-Split: 348 kn (~46 EUR) both ways
- Zagreb-Rijeka: 140 kn (~18 EUR) both ways
- Hungary (Goričan)-Zagreb: 84 kn (~11 EUR) both ways
- Slovenia (Macelj)-Zagreb: 96 kn (~13 EUR) both ways.

So someone coming from Hungary to Rijeka and back must pay ~29 EUR. If he goes to Dalmatia, the toll is even bigger. With the vignette he could go to various destinations (1-day trips) using motorways (for example from Split or Makarska to Krka national park) with no extra paying 




Attus said:


> That price can be OK if you drive from Slovenia to the coast. But from Hungary to Zagreb, which is currently about 100 kuna (both ways)? And last summer the motorway was limited to 100 almost all the way.
> No way I should pay such a hilarious price.
> Not mentioning when I drove to Koprivnica. The toll was approx. 25 kuna (both ways).


The A4 is/was in terrible condition so the 100 km/h limit was put on the southern part, but recently the whole section from Popovec to Komin (25 km) was reconstructed and 130 limit is back. I hope that this spring they will reconstruct the last bad part from Komin to Breznički Hum (15 km), just before the summer season. 

The section from Breznički Hum to Varaždin is set to 110 km/h anyway because of the steep slopes and not that smooth curves (hard terrain)


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## Eulanthe

Maybe the solution for Croatia would be to divide Croatia into two parts, a "North" zone and a "South" zone for vignettes? The line could be just south of the A1/A6 junction. A 15 Euro vignette for each zone would be reasonable, and I can't see how any tourists would lose out with such a plan.


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## Tenjac

The best way is to keep the present system. I am against vignettes although I would probably benefit from introducing them.


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## italystf

Are there recent updates about long-awaited road megaprojects in Croatia?
- Istrian Y as a full motorway
- A7 south of Bakar
- A1 south of Ploce
- Peliesac bridge
Have them being cancelled or are they still pending?
(I know that for the last two relationship with BiH is an issue.)


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## x-type

i think that all mentioned projects are on long hold. A9 is fully upgraded (though southbound without emergency lanes, and there are two large 2-lane bridges). A8 is in the same position between Kanfanar and Pazin (here the northbound is without emergency lanes). Pazin - Rijeka is going to be expensive, large tunnel and quite some viaducts, we're not gonna see it soon. alse, from tunnel Učka to Rijeka there is proposed new alignmend, actually new route passing through the hills above the existing route.

A7 south from Bakar - even larger utopia atm.

A1 south of Ploče - not even utopia how impossible it seems to be.

Pelješac bridge is the most realistic thing among offered here actually (what is very ironic).

the only projects that we can expect in near future are completing the A5 (both missing sections, from A3 to BIH, and from Osijek to H), and roads formerly known as A12 and A13, now D10 and Dsomething.


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## keber

What about A8 section between Pazin and Učka, which is not that difficult like on the Rijeka side? I remember that a lot has been already happening and construction was "already imminent". Now everything is silent


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## Puležan

^^ According to this article: http://www.glasistre.hr/vijesti/pula_istra/do-kraja-godine-izgradnja-drugog-profila-ipsilona-521906 the construction of A8 could start at the end of this year. The new minister Oleg Butkovic said that they will prolongate the concession period, but have to wait the green light from the European Commission, because of the influence on the public debt.

Work would last 3 years and the first section Rogović-Ivoli (6 km) could be finished 1 year after start of construction (end of the 2017).

The whole section from Rogovići to Učka is 28,1 km long with 31 object (viaducts, overpasses, a tunnel).


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## teddyted

Puležan said:


> ...
> 
> The whole section from Rogovići to Učka is 28,1 km long ...


Perhaps, Pazin-Učka?


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## Puležan

teddyted said:


> Perhaps, Pazin-Učka?


Rogovići is the name of the third exit on A8, where the 2x2 section ends, it could be called Pazin-west. Rogovići is a small village near Pazin, but you can't find it on google maps. You probably tried to locate it and google showed you another village called Rogovići near Poreč


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## teddyted

^^
For a foreigner it's extremely confusing to locate sections of highways, using names of so small places that not even appear on maps.

Anyway, thanks for the explanation.:cheers:


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## keber

Puležan said:


> The whole section from Rogovići to Učka is 28,1 km long with 31 object (viaducts, overpasses, *a tunnel*).


So new alignment is quite different from the existing one? Is there any map available?


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## Puležan

keber said:


> So new alignment is quite different from the existing one? Is there any map available?


I didn't see any map, but quite a time ago there was some text/study on the internet with textual explanation of the whole route.

Basically, they will just build second carriageway next to the existing one, so the technical characteristics will be the same. The only exceptions would be the demolition of the Lovrinčići viaduct to make a new one more straight and straightening of this curve.

Also, new tube of Učka tunnel would be 5630 m long (600 m longer) because it would be more to the north that the existing one (so there won't be 2 little tunnels Zrinščak I and II)


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## keber

Still, what tunnel will be made except second tube of Učka?


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## Puležan

keber said:


> Still, what tunnel will be made except second tube of Učka?


Only the second tube of Učka. The tunnel is included in this project. The new route after the Učka tunnel (up in the hills) is still unknown.


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## italystf

*Zadar - Ugljan fixed link????*

I found this recent news (in Italian) about a project of an undersea tunnel that will link the coastal city of Zadar with the island of Ugljan. According to the article, it will be built by a Chinese company.
http://ilpiccolo.gelocal.it/trieste...i-pronti-per-il-tunnel-sottomarino-1.13197486
The cost of the project and the time required to build it stated in the article are highly unlikely (184 million € and 3 years are too little for a such megaproject, I'm not an expert, but 1 billion and 6 years would be more realistic IMHO). Expected lenght is not stated, although it would be around 5 km according to the map.
Moreover, I don't see the usefulness of a such expensive structure. Ugljan and Pasman (that is already linked to Ugljan with a bridge) have less than 10k inhabitants together, and aren't major tourist destination compared to other towns and islands in Dalmatia. Pasman, is also closer to mainland than Ugljan, so a tunnel aimed to connect both islands with mainland should better connect Pasman with Dalmatian coast.
I also have doubts that a Chinese company would be allowed to build a public structure in EU. It's not Africa or 1990s Romania, for public projects in EU international bids open to EU companies are held.


----------



## italystf

Puležan said:


> I didn't see any map, but quite a time ago there was some text/study on the internet with textual explanation of the whole route.
> 
> Basically, they will just build second carriageway next to the existing one, so the technical characteristics will be the same. The only exceptions would be the demolition of the Lovrinčići viaduct to make a new one more straight and straightening of this curve.
> 
> Also, new tube of Učka tunnel would be 5630 m long (600 m longer) because it would be more to the north that the existing one (so there won't be 2 little tunnels Zrinščak I and II)


So that means they will tear down a viaduct built 10 years ago or so? Wasn't B/A8 planned for a future 2x2 expansion since the beginning?


----------



## Puležan

italystf said:


> So that means they will tear down a viaduct built 10 years ago or so? Wasn't B/A8 planned for a future 2x2 expansion since the beginning?


The section Matulji (Rijeka bypass)-Ucka tunnel-Lupogav was put into service in 1981, Lupoglav-Cerovlje in 1988, and Cerovlje-Rogovici (Pazin) in 1998. At that time, it was planned as a normal road (magistrala/highway) in 2x1 profile. Only in 1998 the government decided to build it as a 2x2 expressway, so only the sections planned after 1998 had space reservation for the 2nd carriageway (the whole A/B9 and A/B8 from Kanfanar to Rogovici (Pazin).

So, they will have to tear down all overpasses on section from Pazin to Ucka because they don't have double span (space reservation for the 2nd carriageway), but those ones are not 10 years old, but 25-30.


----------



## italystf

Puležan said:


> The section Matulji (Rijeka bypass)-Ucka tunnel-Lupogav was put into service in 1981, Lupoglav-Cerovlje in 1988, and Cerovlje-Rogovici (Pazin) in 1998. At that time, it was planned as a normal road (magistrala/highway) in 2x1 profile. Only in 1998 the government decided to build it as a 2x2 expressway, so only the sections planned after 1998 had space reservation for the 2nd carriageway (the whole A/B9 and A/B8 from Kanfanar to Rogovici (Pazin).
> 
> So, they will have to tear down all overpasses on section from Pazin to Ucka because they don't have double span (space reservation for the 2nd carriageway), but those ones are not 10 years old, but 25-30.


Thanks. I though B8 was more recent.
Another solution could be building a 2nd carriaggeaway with a totally different allingment from the old one. Like A6 and A7 near Genoa, Italy of A2 East of Ljubljana.


----------



## Gedeon

italystf said:


> Thanks. I though B8 was more recent.
> Another solution could be building a 2nd carriaggeaway with a totally different allingment from the old one. Like A6 and A7 near Genoa, Italy of A2 East of Ljubljana.


That wouldn't be justified here.



italystf said:


> I found this recent news (in Italian) about a project of an undersea tunnel that will link the coastal city of Zadar with the island of Ugljan. According to the article, it will be built by a Chinese company.
> http://ilpiccolo.gelocal.it/trieste...i-pronti-per-il-tunnel-sottomarino-1.13197486
> The cost of the project and the time required to build it stated in the article are highly unlikely (184 million € and 3 years are too little for a such megaproject, I'm not an expert, but 1 billion and 6 years would be more realistic IMHO). Expected lenght is not stated, although it would be around 5 km according to the map.
> Moreover, I don't see the usefulness of a such expensive structure. Ugljan and Pasman (that is already linked to Ugljan with a bridge) have less than 10k inhabitants together, and aren't major tourist destination compared to other towns and islands in Dalmatia. Pasman, is also closer to mainland than Ugljan, so a tunnel aimed to connect both islands with mainland should better connect Pasman with Dalmatian coast.
> I also have doubts that a Chinese company would be allowed to build a public structure in EU. It's not Africa or 1990s Romania, for public projects in EU international bids open to EU companies are held.


Pure rubbish.

There were (more real) plans to build cable-stayed bridge connecting Pašman to mainland.


----------



## italystf

Gedeon said:


> Pure rubbish.
> 
> There were (more real) plans to build cable-stayed bridge connecting Pašman to mainland.


Or an Ancona - Zadar bridge with intermediate interchanges in Dugi Otok and Ugljan. :lol: :jk: :troll:


----------



## bumbar

Part of Podravina ypsilon expressway, D10 from Gradec - Krizevci, LOT1, has been almost finished. Could be opened at the end of April or at the beginning of May 2016.

Source in Croatian:
http://epodravina.hr/foto-hrg-najavio-skori-zavrsetak-radova-na-brzoj-cesti-do-krizevaca/


----------



## celevac

bumbar said:


> Part of Podravina ypsilon expressway, D10 from Gradec - Krizevci, LOT1, has been almost finished. Could be opened at the end of April or at the beginning of May 2016.
> 
> Source in Croatian:
> http://epodravina.hr/foto-hrg-najavio-skori-zavrsetak-radova-na-brzoj-cesti-do-krizevaca/


Finally, but I wouldn't be too optimistic concerning any further construction towards Koprivnica, given the current political and economical situation in the country.


----------



## MichiH

bumbar said:


> Part of Podravina ypsilon expressway, D10 from Gradec - Krizevci, LOT1, has been almost finished. Could be opened at the end of April or at the beginning of May 2016.
> 
> Source in Croatian:
> http://epodravina.hr/foto-hrg-najavio-skori-zavrsetak-radova-na-brzoj-cesti-do-krizevaca/


Hm, the article is from 1st February and reports that the opening ceremony should be on 24th April. That's... today!? Is there any updated info? Has the ceremony took place? Will the road be in service from today?

The section length is about 11.5km. The article reports 12.47km though.


----------



## MichiH

MichiH said:


> http://www.vecernji.hr/gospodarstvo...ec-dva-mjeseca-nema-odluke-o-izvodacu-1052813
> 
> If I got the article right, there are 7 bidders for the construction of the Save bridge (18.9 million € - 24.6 million €) but still no decision after 2 months. The old Strabag contract was 20.9 million €. There's an issue about 535,000 € now but I don't understand what's the problem :dunno:. The bridge should be completed by late 2017 (EIB funds).


http://www.seebiz.eu/viadukt-i-hering-gradit-ce-most-svilaj/ar-134213/

It seems that the contract for building the A5 Sava bridge was awarded to a Croatian consortium last week. The contract value is 22.3 million € w/o VAT (29 million € with VAT. The construction period is 7 months!
Is the article correct? Just 7 months? When are construction works expected to begin?


----------



## x-type

MichiH said:


> Hm, the article is from 1st February and reports that the opening ceremony should be on 24th April. That's... today!? Is there any updated info? Has the ceremony took place? Will the road be in service from today?
> 
> The section length is about 11.5km. The article reports 12.47km though.


they have probably calculated access roads too, and got 1 km more.
none openings today, those local portals are babbling often. the most probable date is somewhere in the early autumn, although some quite reliable sources mention 30.05.



MichiH said:


> http://www.seebiz.eu/viadukt-i-hering-gradit-ce-most-svilaj/ar-134213/
> 
> It seems that the contract for building the A5 Sava bridge was awarded to a Croatian consortium last week. The contract value is 22.3 million € w/o VAT (29 million € with VAT. The construction period is 7 months!
> Is the article correct? Just 7 months? When are construction works expected to begin?


7 months is time of the works later mentioned in the article (bridge to Čiovo and 2 new roads on that island). however, also bridge Svilaj should not take too long to be built since it will be simple beam or girder bridge.


----------



## Gedeon

MichiH said:


> http://www.seebiz.eu/viadukt-i-hering-gradit-ce-most-svilaj/ar-134213/
> 
> It seems that the contract for building the A5 Sava bridge was awarded to a Croatian consortium last week. The contract value is 22.3 million € w/o VAT (29 million € with VAT. The construction period is 7 months!
> Is the article correct? Just 7 months? When are construction works expected to begin?


From tender documentation:



> 2.5. Rok završetka radova ili trajanje ugovora te rok početka radova:
> 
> Početak izvođenja radova je odmah po uvođenju u posao.
> 
> Rok dovršetka radova: 730 (sedamstotrideset) kalendarskih od dana uvođenja u posao


So, 730 days (2 years) from construction start.


----------



## Gedeon

MichiH said:


> Hm, the article is from 1st February and reports that the opening ceremony should be on 24th April. That's... today!? Is there any updated info? Has the ceremony took place? Will the road be in service from today?
> 
> The section length is about 11.5km. The article reports 12.47km though.


It can't be opened before new Gradec-Žabno railway overpass is finished.

It's U/C, but we don't know how it's progressing because x-type is too lazy to go check it out  (it's quite near him)


----------



## Gedeon

JackFrost said:


> Dudes, look:
> 
> 
> 
> Construction should start next year. Any news on A5? Still planned as a 2x1 road north of Osijek?


North of Drava bridge, yes.


----------



## Gedeon

*Pelješac bridge construction bid opened yesterday*

Bid to construct Pelješac bridge and access roads with EU funding was opened yesterday. It will be a 2 phase bidding process.

It will be a 2 lane cable-stayed bridge (with 2 shoulder/emergency lanes). 5 main spans are 285 metres long each.

Estimated cost: 1.756.000.000,00 kn (without VAT) - *233 million euros*

Construction deadline: 42 months after construction start


----------



## keber

It appears that there will be enough place for later expansion to 2+2 expressway traffic lanes with no larger modifications (actually it just needs some different lane painting).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It's narrow for a motorway, but it's smart to build such a large bridge with sufficient space for additional capacity. It's built to last at least 100 years. 

Imagine if they built all roads in the past with only a 20 year traffic horizon. In fact, this was frequently the case, resulting in obsolete capacity standards far earlier than the end of the service life of a bridge or tunnel.

Is there any chance that A1 could get routed across this bridge?


----------



## Gedeon

keber said:


> It appears that there will be enough place for later expansion to 2+2 expressway traffic lanes with no larger modifications (actually it just needs some different lane painting).


Not really, lane width is 3,5 m + 3 m. Not enough for two expressway lanes (2*3,5 m).


----------



## bigic

Maybe they could fit in two lanes at 3,25 m.


----------



## celevac

So, they published this exactly one day after parliament was dissolved and new elections are called for early September. I can tell where this is going...


----------



## Gedeon

bigic said:


> Maybe they could fit in two lanes at 3,25 m.


They could, but it would be sub-standard. And what's the point anyway, as the connecting roads won't ever be 2+2.


----------



## Gedeon

celevac said:


> So, they published this exactly one day after parliament was dissolved and new elections are called for early September. I can tell where this is going...


No, you can't.

This bid is now few years in the making, actually it was former (Milanović) government who re-started the whole thing (and got EU funding).


----------



## diegobonazzi

Hello everybody! Is the Dusina rest area working now? Are there petrol station and cafe-bar there? Thanks!


----------



## Verso

bigic said:


> Maybe they could fit in two lanes at 3,25 m.


Then it would look like the Slovenian H7.


----------



## FiveYears

diegobonazzi said:


> Hello everybody! Is the Dusina rest area working now? Are there petrol station and cafe-bar there? Thanks!


Think that both responses are negative. I`m sure fore second one.


----------



## satanism

I see there's 2x50cm in side reservation, which I believe could be reduced to 25cm each, so there you go...the half meter you're missing for 2x3.50....


----------



## x-type

satanism said:


> I see there's 2x50cm in side reservation, which I believe could be reduced to 25cm each, so there you go...the half meter you're missing for 2x3.50....


exactly what i wanted to write. 

this is little bit weird allingment, but it is sufficient to make 2+2. it can always be 2+2 with 80 km/h speed limit and no changing lanes.


----------



## Eulanthe

ChrisZwolle said:


> Is there any chance that A1 could get routed across this bridge?


I don't believe for one second that this bridge is going to get built, but let's assume it does.

The problem is the other side. The road from Zaton Doli to the bridge is not really suitable for the traffic that the coast road handles, so it doesn't seem likely that the A1 would be routed over it. Even the improvements that are meant to be delivered as part of the bridge (including improvements of roads and the Ston bypass) isn't really enough to justify putting the A1 over it.

I still think the Croatian plan is to build the bridge, then use it to try and convince the EU to pay up for turning the route into motorway standard. It won't matter that the Pelješac bridge is substandard, as it will need to remain non-motorway to allow all traffic to use it. 

My biggest problem with this bridge is that it will destroy the relative tranquillity of Pelješac  Apart from Orebić and Ston, the rest of the peninsula is pretty much undiscovered by idiotic tourists.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Eulanthe said:


> It won't matter that the Pelješac bridge is substandard, as it will need to remain non-motorway to allow all traffic to use it.


Which is not an entirely uncommon situation in Europe. For example on Pont de Normandie in France, A29 briefly switches to route nationale status, despite the bridge having four lanes and no at-grade intersections on its route. 

The Dartford Crossing on the east side of London may have similar considerations for it to be A282 instead of M25. 

Through Oslo, E6 loses motorway status despite featuring 2x2 lanes and full control of access on its route (it is substandard though). 

In southern France, A54 is interrupted by N113 through the Arles area, despite the route having higher standards than some autoroutes.


----------



## x-type

i don't see anything wrong if that road from Ploče over the bridge becomes D13 expressway.


----------



## Gedeon

satanism said:


> I see there's 2x50cm in side reservation, which I believe could be reduced to 25cm each, so there you go...the half meter you're missing for 2x3.50....


This is not a reservation, but a side lane. If lanes are 3,50 then the side lane needs to be at least 50 cm.


----------



## Gedeon

Eulanthe said:


> I don't believe for one second that this bridge is going to get built, but let's assume it does.
> 
> The problem is the other side. The road from Zaton Doli to the bridge is not really suitable for the traffic that the coast road handles, so it doesn't seem likely that the A1 would be routed over it. Even the improvements that are meant to be delivered as part of the bridge (including improvements of roads and the Ston bypass) isn't really enough to justify putting the A1 over it.
> 
> I still think the Croatian plan is to build the bridge, then use it to try and convince the EU to pay up for turning the route into motorway standard. It won't matter that the Pelješac bridge is substandard, as it will need to remain non-motorway to allow all traffic to use it.
> 
> My biggest problem with this bridge is that it will destroy the relative tranquillity of Pelješac  Apart from Orebić and Ston, the rest of the peninsula is pretty much undiscovered by idiotic tourists.


The EU is fuding it, what's there not to believe?

I don't agree with you on further points either. The whole bypass road will be 1+1. If we wanted to build a 2+2 expressway/highway as our endgame, we would've anticipated that in the designs. This road will be only a modern reroute of D8 coastal road 100% on Croatian soil.

The Adriatic-Ionian motorway is leaving Croatia at Metković and going through BiH to Montenegro. Case closed. Croatian nature and landscapes mostly intact. Everybody wins.


----------



## italystf

Gedeon said:


> The Adriatic-Ionian motorway is leaving Croatia at Metković and going through BiH to Montenegro.


Is this an official plan?


----------



## italystf

Eulanthe said:


> I don't think I've ever seen anyone advising drivers to take food and drinks in the middle of summer before!


You expect those kinds of advice before attempting to drive to North Cape. Or along the Alaska Highway. Or in the Australian outback. :lol:

Seriously, imagine if Sv Rok and Mala Kapela tunnels were still single-tubed today... maybe 100km of queue?


----------



## Verso

^^ Why 100 km? It would be the same since the tunnel was closed anyway.


----------



## Eulanthe

Still a 25km jam in front of Sveti Rok according to HAK :nuts:

What does it mean when they say that traffic is going in columns?



> Upozoravamo vozače: na obilaznim cestama DC50, DC27, DC522 prema Udbini, Gračacu, Obrovcu i obratno vozi se usporeno, u kolonama.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A queue? (i.e. mostly stationary traffic)?


----------



## Eulanthe

If it is that, it's a horrible road to be stuck on - it's completely exposed, and if the bura was to start again, it would probably be complete hell. 

Apparently it was taking around 11 hours to get from Zadar to Zagorje yesterday, and there's reports today of it taking 10 hours to get from Zagreb to the coast.


----------



## keokiracer

ChrisZwolle said:


> A queue? (i.e. mostly stationary traffic)?


I think it means stop&go traffic, so still 25kms of stop&go traffic.


----------



## x-type

Eulanthe said:


> If it is that, it's a horrible road to be stuck on - it's completely exposed, and if the bura was to start again, it would probably be complete hell.


no, it cannot happen. bura lasts for more days only in late autumn and winter periods, never in summer. and chance for something similar again is miserable.


----------



## Gedeon

keokiracer said:


> I think it means stop&go traffic, so still 25kms of stop&go traffic.


No, "usporeno u kolonama" means "congested traffic moving with difficulty".


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The travel time from Zagreb to the Dalmatian coast was 'over 10 hours' yesterday. They call the traffic congestion 'unprecedented'.

https://www.total-croatia-news.com/item/13102-unprecedented-traffic-congestion-on-croatian-motorways


----------



## x-type

media are overreacting about this situation. i drove from Milano via Lecco at friday, it was hell in Italy. and nobody is making big deal of it, neither don't i.


----------



## kostas97

What is the progress of the Osijek-Bela Palanka segment of the A5 motorway?


----------



## Krlesius

It's Beli Manastir, not Bela Palanka. In first place bridge over river Drava should be completed until end of this year. Instead of highway it will be built expresway from Osijek to border with Hungary until it will be necessary to expand. When will be built in the second phase of the motorway to a full profile, one can only assume will depend on the completion of construction of 5C through Bosnia and Herzegovina and bridge over Sava river near Svilaj.


----------



## nestvaran

Speaking of that section, here are a few plane shots from July 4


WP_20160704_12_22_16_Pro by nestva ran, on Flickr


WP_20160704_12_22_58_Pro by nestva ran, on Flickr


WP_20160704_12_23_18_Pro by nestva ran, on Flickr


WP_20160704_12_23_38_Pro by nestva ran, on Flickr


----------



## kostas97

Krlesius said:


> It's Beli Manastir, not Bela Palanka. In first place bridge over river Drava should be completed until end of this year. Instead of highway it will be built expresway from Osijek to border with Hungary until it will be necessary to expand. When will be built in the second phase of the motorway to a full profile, one can only assume will depend on the completion of construction of 5C through Bosnia and Herzegovina and bridge over Sava river near Svilaj.


Ooops, sorry, wrong city!
The expressway solution seems to be functional as well......but according to the photos above, the road is not u/c......is it going to start soon?


----------



## celevac

kostas97 said:


> Ooops, sorry, wrong city!
> The expressway solution seems to be functional as well......but according to the photos above, the road is not u/c......is it going to start soon?


The section north of the bridge was definitely not u/c when I was in the area in May this year. The photos confirm that. 

I think they are not too eager to get it done quickly for financial and other reasons.


----------



## kostas97

celevac said:


> The section north of the bridge was definitely not u/c when I was in the area in May this year. The photos confirm that.
> 
> I think they are not too eager to get it done quickly for financial and other reasons.


It would've been good if it was completed......oh, by the way, i read in a previous post that the Sava bridge to BIH will be constructed, when is it going to begin?


----------



## Krlesius

Starting of construction is scheduled for September, and completion is planned after two years.


----------



## ElviS77

italystf said:


> You expect those kinds of advice before attempting to drive to North Cape.


No such advice needed there, I'm afraid. Bring money, though, parking alone is 30 euros...


----------



## kostas97

Krlesius said:


> Starting of construction is scheduled for September, and completion is planned after two years.


Seems fine, thanks, how much is it going to cost?


----------



## Kemo

I am travelling to Croatia next week (on Saturday) and I would like to avoid the traffic jam at the border, so I have two questions:

1. Is this border crossing available for all EU citizens?

2. On the way back - is it a good idea to leave A2 at Durmanec and use the parallel D1 road to the border (https://www.google.pl/maps/dir/46.1...4765f4abf65bcf9f:0xb955fea228927d72!1m0!3e0)? I guess this terminal is closed and I need to use the terminal at the motorway?


----------



## Verso

roaddor said:


> As a side observer, in my opinion Croatia has the obligation to pay off the construction of A1 first rather than to divert the traffic through Banja Luka by taking part into the construction of the bridge at Gradiska.


This is called blocking road construction. The bridge over Sava wouldn't just create an alternative to the A1 (which has a very long way to be finished anyway), it would also connect Zagreb with Banja Luka and other places in Bosnia.


----------



## stickedy

It's no secret that Croatia strongly prefers to cooperate with the Croats in BiH than with the Serbs. Especially when HDZ is in power...

So no surprise, that there is close to zero progress with projects involving Republika Srpska.


----------



## tooljan

x-type said:


> true, but what with last 20 years when Croatia had good access to modern border crossing, while at the same time at BIH side was road congested with local traffic with 60 km/h limit and border crossing with horribly limited capacity?


OK 

What are you expecting from us? When we established where problems are (one of them is state road between Banja Luka and Gradiška), we eliminated that by building highway (finished... maybe 2010? if you want, you can google it) between Banja Luka and Gradiška. Another problem is border crossing into center of town Gradiška, but solution of this specific problem Croatia obstructing for, at least, a decade now.


----------



## Verso

stickedy said:


> It's no secret that Croatia strongly prefers to cooperate with the Croats in BiH than with the Serbs. Especially when HDZ is in power...
> 
> So no surprise, that there is close to zero progress with projects involving Republika Srpska.


If Croats finished the A3 to Serbia, why do they have such a problem with Bosnian Serbs? If anyone is making problems for Bosnian Croats, it's probably Muslims rather than Serbs, no?


----------



## SRC_100

I see some kinde of childishness b/n HR, FBiH, RoS BiH authorities...


----------



## darko06

CrazySerb said:


> Nothing worse than a self-hating Serb. hno:


Said the one who was banned from Bulgarian forum. :lol:
Said the one who is literally dumping Serbian forum all the time with underdone proposals of wannabe motorways illustrated in old Yugoslav manner from the 1980es, altogether poorly translated from Serbian. E. g. visitors there thought that proposed tunnel Fruška Gora would be 17 kilometers long. hno:
Additionally, this is the same pattern as making the famous map of motorways made in "Yugoslavia", compiled with - look what we might have done if we somehow stayed together - mindset. On contrary, this map clearly proves that both Slovenia and Croatia made huge profit seceding Yugoslavia, at least concerning motorway construction. Moreover, Croatia financed all its motorways alone, without even European Union help, where Serbia is struggling in financing its projects from Russia through Azerbaijan to People's Republic of China, not to speak that Serbian authorities did not finish expressway from Batočina to Kragujevac, obliged by carmaker FIAT, etc. etc. :nuts:

The hard truth about Gradiška Bridge is, that if Croatia finishes it, Republika Srpska would never finish their part of Svilaj-Nova Sela motorway, especially Odžak-Doboj section, forcing travellers from Central Bosnia and Sarajevo region to Western Europe to fill in the budget of Republic of Srpska by using Doboj-Banja Luka motorway? So why on God's green Earth would Croatian authorities make such a misjudgement?


----------



## zezi

Verso said:


> This is called blocking road construction. The bridge over Sava wouldn't just create an alternative to the A1 (which has a very long way to be finished anyway), it would also connect Zagreb with Banja Luka and other places in Bosnia.


In Gradiška there is already a bridge. As per Croatian statistics AADT on that crosing is between 4-5000. Only problem is that on Bosnian side b/c is in the middle of town. Nothing else. Thats why for Croatia that is not a priority.


----------



## roaddor

Verso said:


> This is called blocking road construction. The bridge over Sava wouldn't just create an alternative to the A1 (which has a very long way to be finished anyway), it would also connect Zagreb with Banja Luka and other places in Bosnia.


Verso, you are making a mountain out of a molehill. If one does not know the map, he/she may think that there is no bridge at all at Gradiska, which is not the case. A3 is also very near to the river crossing and last but not least this is just a local way, not an international corridor. I don't say that a new bridge should not be built but just as BiH (I mean both entities) have their own priorities, so does Croatia. In this respect, the corresponding bridge comes as far as I know after A1 to Dubrovnik, A7, A5 and A13 to name but a few. Even your favourite A2 with Krapina precedes it. Moreover, A1 has a real alternative namely Karlovac-Plitvice-Knin-Dugopolje, even a big part of the state road D1 from Lucko to Split I/C whose quality is quite good.
Can you make the Austrians build an expressway from Celovec oops sorry I should say Klagenfurt to the border just because you want to connect it faster with Ljubljana and at the same time to serve as an alternative to your A2? I don't think so.


----------



## Verso

^ Klagenfurt is not so important to us, it's basically a cul-de-sac. We have a good road to Ljubelj, but the road on the Austrian side is their problem, it should be more important to them anyway. My point is that if Croats don't wanna build this motorway just because it might create an alternative to the A1, that's called blocking road construction, because the motorway would have more purpose than just that.


----------



## sponge_bob

roaddor said:


> I don't say that a new bridge should not be built but just as BiH (I mean both entities) have their own priorities, so does Croatia.


I always said the EU would have to pay in full for the 2 motorway connections to Bosnia across the Sava river to the Croatian A3 ( and A5 )


----------



## stickedy

Verso said:


> If Croats finished the A3 to Serbia, why do they have such a problem with Bosnian Serbs? If anyone is making problems for Bosnian Croats, it's probably Muslims rather than Serbs, no?


That you can't compare:
1. The motorway was already there as an expressway and partly already as motorway. Croatia just upgraded that road and also it's very easy terrain.
2. That motorway also serves as connection to Vukovar, Vinkovci, Osijek and whole East Slavonia
3. Traffic on A3 is much higher than at the bridge in Gradiska. If there were huge traffic jams, I think Croatia will be more pushing it...
4. Croatia and Serbia were never at war. Relations were non existing for some time but recovered after Dayton Agreement and ending of the war in Croatia and BiH
5. East Slavonia was given back to Croatia without bigger problems although bordering directly to Serbia.

All reasons why it's easier to work with Serbia. On the other hand I don't have to tell you the story of the war in Crotia and BiH, have I?


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## x-type

as we have all missed the announced traffic jams due to Putin in Slovenia, in Croatia we still had them because of several traffic accidents along A1 and A6. one of them was again in tunnel Sveti Marko. 
every year in that short tunnel happens at least one accident, some of them fatal. some say it is because here A1 becomes more curvy, some say because it is the first tunnel after Zagreb (i don't see any reasons why would it generate accidents), some say that the tunnel itself is cursed because there is graveyard at the hill above it :lol:


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## Verso

^^ Sounds like a pain in the ass. :lol: What about the border crossing Goričan? No increased traffic? Many tourists actually follow signalization by Maribor and drive that way, because there was congestion today on the Slovenian A5 just before the Hungarian border. Maybe it's congested just on the Hungarian side (Letenye)?


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## x-type

Verso said:


> ^^ Sounds like a pain in the ass. :lol: What about the border crossing Goričan? No increased traffic? Many tourists actually follow signalization by Maribor and drive that way, because there was congestion today on the Slovenian A5 just before the Hungarian border. Maybe it's congested just on the Hungarian side (Letenye)?


i saw congestion at toll station Sveta Helena, but it would be the same in each case, with or without Putin.

i saw quite some jam around Ptuj and almost hardly moving traffic between Ptuj and Gruškovje (and consequently proceeded jam to toll station Trakošćan) maybe it was little bit more than expected for strongest tourist weekend.


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## Kemo

Road D106, mini-bypass of Pag. It looks very new so I guess it has been opened recently.


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## KHS

About two months ago or something like that


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## smokiboy

Recently drove on the A7 from Rijeka to Hreljin. Great 'urban expressway.' 
I'm interested in the future route to Žuta Lokva, I can't find it anywhere. I also heard that there may be some recent changes to the proposed route.


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## zvonko

Only planning.

Studija izvedivosti ceste Žuta Lokva - Križišće


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## smokiboy

Zvonko, respect.
Hvala.


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## keber

zvonko said:


> Only planning.
> 
> Studija izvedivosti ceste Žuta Lokva - Križišće


You need to be registered with that service to be able to download anything.


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## piotr71

*Road 44*

Road 44, view from small town Roć in Istria Peninsula.


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## piotr71

*D8&D25*

"Jadranska Magistrala", view from Northern Velebit Mountains, near Karlobag.


D8 (bottom) and D25.


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## piotr71

Jadranska Magistrala near Novi Vinodolski.


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## piotr71

A6, Fuzine, motorway bridge.


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## Puležan

*A11 Zagreb-Lekenik-(Sisak) -1/4*

A11 drive from Zagreb to Lekenik



Puležan said:


> interchange A3/A11 #1 Jakuševac
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## Puležan

*A11 Zagreb-Lekenik-(Sisak) -2/4*

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Puležan said:


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## Puležan

*A11 Zagreb-Lekenik-(Sisak) -3/4*

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Puležan said:


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## Puležan

*A11 Zagreb-Lekenik-(Sisak) -4/4*

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Puležan said:


> exit #6 Lekenik
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## bzbox

Empty autocesta it seems will it ever be worth building to Sisak?


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## Puležan

bzbox said:


> Empty autocesta it seems will it ever be worth building to Sisak?


Yes, it's pretty empty, but it's still worth building it (maybe it could have been better to build a 2x2 expressway instead), because it replaces a 45 km stretch of continuous villages and 50 km/h limits within them. The AADT is still bigger than of A5.

The area around Sisak is poor, so people don't want to pay for the motorway (although the toll is 9 kn for the whole existing stretch).

It will attract more traffic when the connection to Zagreb is done (a viaduct across the railway/station and upgrade of Sarajevska avenue till the bridge across Sava).


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## Verso

I think Zagreb wants to have as many motorways around it as possible.


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## Puležan

Verso said:


> I think Zagreb wants to have as many motorways around it as possible.


Zagreb always wants to have everything  
But the truth is that Zagreb is the central transportation hub because you can hardly go from Istria or Dalmatia to Zagorje or Slavonija without passing through Zagreb. Also, southern route from Zagreb is heavily congested because of daily commuters (Buzin business district, people from Velika Gorica, Veliko Polje, Velika Mlaka...going to school and work to Zagreb), then there's the airport. So some kind of quality road was indeed needed there.


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## JackFrost

^^Any plans to build a Zagreb northern bypass connecting A3/A4 with A2? Or maybe a second southern ring? How far is Slavonska avenija away from exressway standards?

https://www.google.hu/maps/@45.7974...03&h=100&yaw=174.60144&pitch=0!7i13312!8i6656


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## Puležan

JackFrost said:


> ^^Any plans to build a Zagreb northern bypass connecting A3/A4 with A2? Or maybe a second southern ring? How far is Slavonska avenija away from exressway standards?
> 
> https://www.google.hu/maps/@45.7974...03&h=100&yaw=174.60144&pitch=0!7i13312!8i6656


Northern ring is just a dream, no serious plans have been made. But the A3 southern bypass is just good, it's just a 15 min drive from Jankomir interchange (A2/A3) to Ivanja Reka interchange (A3/A4).

But an expressway (1x2, grade separated) is being built right now from Zabok exit (A2) towards A4: map

Slavonska avenija is a 2x2 avenue, with at-level crossings and traffic lights and few grade separated crossings (Savska street, Većeslava Holjevca av., Držićeva av., Radnička, Grada Gospića, Ljudevita Posavskog), with speed limits 70-80 km/h (80 is maximum on roads within urban areas, limited by law). The city plans to upgrade it to 2x3 profile (like its western counterpart-Zagrebačka/Ljubljanska av.), but no one knows when will that start. Anyway, it's much faster and comfortable to take A3 then to go through the city /Ljubljanska/Zagrebačka/Slavonska av.) ;-)


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## Eulanthe

JackFrost said:


> ^^Any plans to build a Zagreb northern bypass connecting A3/A4 with A2? Or maybe a second southern ring? How far is Slavonska avenija away from exressway standards?


A second outer ring from the A2 to the A3 towards Slavonski Brod makes a lot of sense if it was integrated into the existing tolling systems, meaning that you could drive from Osijek to Ploce within one tolling system.

But at the very least, I'd love to see a new A1-A2 connection. The geography might be a problem though...


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## Tenjac

Puležan;134962647 said:


> Yes, it's pretty empty, but it's still worth building it (maybe it could have been better to build a 2x2 expressway instead), because it replaces a 45 km stretch of continuous villages and 50 km/h limits within them.


Since it is parallel with A3, it would be better that they built 15 km from A3 to Sisak and not 35 km from Zagreb bypass to Lekenik!

After building 35 km of highway, we have two highways that end 15 km from Sisak instead of one.


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## Puležan

Eulanthe said:


> A second outer ring from the A2 to the A3 towards Slavonski Brod makes a lot of sense if it was integrated into the existing tolling systems, meaning that you could drive from Osijek to Ploce within one tolling system.
> 
> But at the very least, I'd love to see a new A1-A2 connection. The geography might be a problem though...


The A3 section from Jankomir to Lučko (cca 5 km) is planned to be upgraded to 2x3 among first sections (as well as A1 from Lučko to Karlovac, cca 40 km), so it will be more comfortable to drive. It's the section most congested during summer weekends.



Tenjac said:


> Since it is parallel with A3, it would be better that they built 15 km from A3 to Sisak and not 35 km from Zagreb bypass to Lekenik!
> 
> After building 35 km of highway, we have two highways that end 15 km from Sisak instead of one.


I wouldn't say so. If you go to Sisak via A3 (Popovača exit) the route is 85 km long (25 km longer than using D30 or A11). Also, the point of A11 is not just connection from Zagreb to Sisak, but also avoiding many villages along the the D30 and relieving it from heavy traffic (D30 is the only road there so it's used by kids going to school, pedestrians, bicycles, bikes, and number of heavy trucks going to Sisak and Bosnia.

A11 will eventually come to Sisak. We had to wait 34 years for A1 to come to Split


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## YU-AMC

tooljan said:


> Croatian government was, in the beginning, supportive for this project, but in the last couple years they trying to sabotage this highway. Bridge over river Sava was agreed, than wasn't, and now, after ten years, he is agreed again. Supposedly.
> ]


I would not worry about the bridge too much. Whoever wants to cross over and use our motorways, they will do so. Croatia just like any micro, egocentric state in Europe will always look for the chance to gain some political points.... Germany can allow them into so called EU, but the Balkan backward mentality will never fade away. I am very happy the way things up moving for us in Srpska, as well as in Bosnia.


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## bumbar

*Expressway D2 Ormož (Slovenia) - Ilok*

Maybe Michih can add in the list an expressway in Croatia:

D2: Virovitica - Suhopolje, 9.1km (Sep 2014 - 2017) as a LOT from the expressway project (Podravska brza cesta) that should go from Ormož (Slovenia) - Ilok (Croatia).

Link: http://www.icv.hr/2016/03/foto-pogledajte-izgledaju-radovi-buducoj/


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## Tenjac

Puležan;134992997 said:


> I wouldn't say so. If you go to Sisak via A3 (Popovača exit) the route is 85 km long (25 km longer than using D30 or A11). Also, the point of A11 is not just connection from Zagreb to Sisak, but also avoiding many villages along the the D30 and relieving it from heavy traffic (D30 is the only road there so it's used by kids going to school, pedestrians, bicycles, bikes, and number of heavy trucks going to Sisak and Bosnia.
> 
> A11 will eventually come to Sisak. We had to wait 34 years for A1 to come to Split


There is no reason for the section connecting Sisak and A3 to be built from Popovača. It could also be built from Ludina or Križ which would erase or at least minimize 25 km difference. But what would also be major advantage of the connection at Ludina (my preferred option) is the connection further to the east which is totally absent in the case of A11. As for the heavy traffic on D30, it would be reduced in any case so that could not be valid justification for longer route. As far as I know, there is no exit to every village from A11 (nor it should be expected).


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## bumbar

*D10:* Gradec – Krizevci 11.5km (? to 2016)

Construction started in 2011 to 2nd Sep 2016

*D12:* Vrbovec (A12) – Farkasevac 10.5km (? to >= 2016)

Construction started in 2011 to 2017

Source: http://www.icv.hr/2016/07/60-minuta...-bjelovara-dijelu-buduce-trase-do-virovitice/


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## Eulanthe

Puležan said:


> The A3 section from Jankomir to Lučko (cca 5 km) is planned to be upgraded to 2x3 among first sections (as well as A1 from Lučko to Karlovac, cca 40 km), so it will be more comfortable to drive. It's the section most congested during summer weekends.


I don't think making the A1 to 2x3 from Lučko to Karlovac will change much on those crazy summer weekends. I was thinking about it a while ago, and perhaps one option would be to make the 3rd lane from Jastrebarsko a "A2 only" lane. It would need some clever design to integrate it all, but if it could be kept as a separate lane all the way to the toll station on the A2 at Zaprešić, then at least it would reduce some of the pressure as traffic wouldn't have to stop twice.

Another idea - wouldn't it make sense to introduce some sort of pre-paid tolling system? I can imagine turning up at... I dunno, Zadar, entering the motorway, and instead of taking a ticket, you select your destination on a touchscreen and pre-pay the toll. Then you replace the card-only toll booths with pre-paid booths, with automatic numberplate readers being used. 

No matter what, the chaos is only on a handful of weekends every year. It's hard to justify spending millions of Kuna on something that will be barely used.


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## i15

I drove Karlovac-Zagreb on Thursday and 2x2 wasn't enough. However, Lučko toll gate was suprisingly fast, I used Demerje as usual, but cash gates were also without congestion


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## x-type

Eulanthe said:


> I don't think making the A1 to 2x3 from Lučko to Karlovac will change much on those crazy summer weekends. I was thinking about it a while ago, and perhaps one option would be to make the 3rd lane from Jastrebarsko a "A2 only" lane. It would need some clever design to integrate it all, but if it could be kept as a separate lane all the way to the toll station on the A2 at Zaprešić, then at least it would reduce some of the pressure as traffic wouldn't have to stop twice.
> 
> Another idea - wouldn't it make sense to introduce some sort of pre-paid tolling system? I can imagine turning up at... I dunno, Zadar, entering the motorway, and instead of taking a ticket, you select your destination on a touchscreen and pre-pay the toll. Then you replace the card-only toll booths with pre-paid booths, with automatic numberplate readers being used.
> 
> No matter what, the chaos is only on a handful of weekends every year. It's hard to justify spending millions of Kuna on something that will be barely used.


or you take/buy entrance ticket to A1 at gas station / some other toll station, and use express lane without stopping at Lučko


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## Eulanthe

x-type said:


> or you take/buy entrance ticket to A1 at gas station / some other toll station, and use express lane without stopping at Lučko


Could actually make a lot of sense - you stop at Trakošćan, tell them your destination, pay the toll and you have a clear run from there. No need to stop at Lučko and Zadar-2, it's good for 24 hours, and with a bit of common sense, could be available online before you even leave so you can avoid queuing completely. 

Move the Croatian border controls to Gruškovje, use the old Croatian controls to separate traffic before the Trakošćan toll station, and you've cleared up at least the southbound mess.

Was Croatia always a disaster on summer weekends, or did the A1/A2 make things much worse as traffic concentrated on that route?


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## stickedy

In past times the nightmare was on the coastal road (D8), the D1 and D3 towards the coast. It was not better, just different.

You had dense traffic over the whole distances and not just before some toll stations. Drive from Ploce to Herceg Novi on a Saturday afternoon and you get the idea...


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## x-type

Eulanthe said:


> Was Croatia always a disaster on summer weekends, or did the A1/A2 make things much worse as traffic concentrated on that route?


Karlovac was incredible bottleneck. I don't know how people were surviving it. All traffic from motorway Zagreb - Karlovac would stuck first at toll in Karlovac, and after that at city avenue, which cut the city in 2 halfs and was impossible to cross it. 

Ali da D1 and D3 there was high volumed traffic, but I don't remember some incredible jams. Everything was just about Karlovac and Split ferry port.


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## Verso

Ahhh, motorway all the way to Karlovac. Good old times.


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## x-type

Verso said:


> Ahhh, motorway all the way to Karlovac. Good old times.


i actually never experienced extreme jam in those times. we mostly went to seaside in early season, early July, or even late June. and we left Bjelovar at 3 AM so at 6 we were already somewhere at D3 after Karlovac, and crowds start at 6-7 AM. 
but the traffic volumes in those times were definitely much lower than today. i think that today we would have 80 km jams if everything went only on old D1 and D3.


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## Verso

^^ I don't think so, because there is more traffic because of the longer motorway. Anyway, I've driven on the Zagreb-Karlovac motorway only once, and that was in 2005. I hardly ever drove on Croatian motorways before 2000, because they were quite useless for us unless you went east of Zagreb. I only drove on the Čakovec-Goričan motorway (A4) when I went to Budapest in 1998. It was so new that they didn't even collect tolls yet.


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## x-type

Verso said:


> ^^ I don't think so, because there is more traffic because of the longer motorway.


 but there is still quite some traffic at D1 too. On D3 not, it is empty because there everyone uses A6. 



Verso said:


> Anyway, I've driven on the Zagreb-Karlovac motorway only once, and that was in 2005. I hardly ever drove on Croatian motorways before 2000, because they were quite useless for us unless you went east of Zagreb. I only drove on the Čakovec-Goričan motorway (A4) when I went to Budapest in 1998. It was so new that they didn't even collect tolls yet.


The same as your A1 LJ-MB for us  I am about to clinch it for few years already just to say that I was there, but still never caught time to do it. 

In 1998 you could drive only on Zagreb - Sveta Helena and Čakovec - Goričan (as you said it was opened that year) of A4, and 6km near Zagreb (Ivanja Reka - Popovec) was 2 Lane expressway.  

Now you reminded me - that part of D3 between Hungary and Zagreb was road of death for H, SK, PL tourists. It was really not nearly adequate for those amounts of traffic and nasty accidents happened there.


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## Verso

Oh, I forgot that we took the A3 to Bosnia in 1986. I don't remember it though.


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## Puležan

It's interesting to revoke memories from only 10 years ago:
- from Pula to Zagreb (~260 km) we had only 50 km of full profile motorways (A6 Orehovica-Grobnik /~10km/ and A1 Karlovac-Zagreb /~40 km/)
- in 2008 the whole A6 (~80 km) and A1 Bosiljevo-Zagreb (~70 km) were in full profile
- in 2009 the Rijeka bypass (A7) was completed in full profile
- in 2010 the A9 from Pula to Kanfanar was completed in full profile (~30 km)
- in 2011 the A8 from Kanfanar to Pazin (Rogovići) (~18 km) was completed in full profile.

I remember going to Zagreb in my first few years of college using different roads and sections of A/B6, A/B9 and D3 each time, depending on the roadworks being conducted at the moment.

Today on the same route (~260 km) we have 5 motorways (A9, A8, A7, A6, A1), of which "only" 47 km is half profile (B8) :cheers:


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## tfd543

Cheers. What about the railways?? Lmao.


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## Puležan

tfd543 said:


> Cheers. What about the railways?? Lmao.


We have them, too :baeh3:


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## Verso

Pula-Zagreb via Slovenia. :troll:


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## tfd543

Haha. No but seriously, high-speed trains are really the thing that croatia needs to connect major cities. Not everyone can afford a car.


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## zezi

tfd543 said:


> Haha. No but seriously, high-speed trains are really the thing that croatia needs to connect major cities. Not everyone can afford a car.


We can not afford high speed trains also.

So best solution - take a bus.


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## JackFrost

^^Maybe Slovenia and Croatia could afford a high-speed rail together? Eastern European countries are too small and/or sparsely populated that only one country could build such a rail, but it could work for 2-3-4 countries in a row.


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## kreden

JackFrost said:


> ^^Maybe Slovenia and Croatia could afford a high-speed rail together? Eastern European countries are too small and/or sparsely populated that only one country could build such a rail, but it could work for 2-3-4 countries in a row.


It's not realistic, there isn't nearly enough demand. Sharing a network with another country would only really alleviate overhead costs, the underlying structural issues that make HSR infeasible would remain. In fact, it would probably make them even worse, as there isn't nearly as much demand for cross-border services as there is for domestic services, so those lines would almost certainly rack up a large loss. Bringing the existing railways up to conventional rail standards (160 km/h) and eliminating some missing links would probably suffice for many years to come.


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## tfd543

What about in zagreb itself? the trams are doing a decent job right ?


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## bumbar

D10 expressway, LOT Gradec - Križevci, 12.5km opened for traffic today, 2nd Sep 2016.

Source:http://www.mppi.hr/default.aspx?id=29449


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## bumbar

D12, expressway, Vrbovec - Virovitica, LOT Vrbovec - Farkaševac is more likely to be opened in Spring 2017.


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## x-type

bumbar said:


> D12, expressway, Vrbovec - Virovitica, LOT Vrbovec - Farkaševac is more likely to be opened in Spring 2017.


april 2017 they say


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## zezi

bumbar said:


> D10 expressway, LOT Gradec - Križevci, 12.5km opened for traffic today, 2nd Sep 2016.
> 
> Source:http://www.mppi.hr/default.aspx?id=29449


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## MichiH

^^ When a new motorway is opened, there's often an outlook for the next sections to be built. Was there any info in media about the yellow "in preperation" section?


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## zezi

MichiH said:


> ^^ When a new motorway is opened, there's often an outlook for the next sections to be built. Was there any info in media about the yellow "in preperation" section?


Unfortunately no info.


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## MichiH

^^ Although the length of the section opened is indicated by 12.5km, the real length seems to be about 11.5km: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=4...869;487518;881917;499534;933190;525283;952267 :nuts:


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## MichiH

bumbar said:


> Maybe Michih can add in the list an expressway in Croatia:
> 
> D2: Virovitica - Suhopolje, 9.1km (Sep 2014 - 2017) as a LOT from the expressway project (Podravska brza cesta) that should go from Ormož (Slovenia) - Ilok (Croatia).
> 
> Link: http://www.icv.hr/2016/03/foto-pogledajte-izgledaju-radovi-buducoj/


Is it really an expressway with 2x2 lanes or minimum the construction of the first carriageway but the 2nd carriageway is planned according to a national demand plan et cetera? That's required to be added to my list, see first post.

I couldn't find any info that it's more than a "simple" 2-laned bypass or "expressroad".


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## x-type

MichiH said:


> ^^ Although the length of the section opened is indicated by 12.5km, the real length seems to be about 11.5km: http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=4...869;487518;881917;499534;933190;525283;952267 :nuts:


they are often counting access roads because they probably get materials from construction companies.

btw 1 km was opened few months ago (southern terminus of new section, between former temporary exit Gradec, and today's exit Gradec)


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## MichiH

x-type said:


> they are often counting access roads because they probably get materials from construction companies.


Yes, I think that happened here too. It's confusing though...



x-type said:


> btw 1 km was opened few months ago (southern terminus of new section, between former temporary exit Gradec, and today's exit Gradec)


Well, it seems to be 500m D10 and 500m access road :lol:
Do you know a more accurate date, e.g. spring 2016?


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## zezi

MichiH said:


> Do you know a more accurate date, e.g. spring 2016?


June 15th 2016

http://hac.hr/odnosi-s-javnoscu/informacije-i-obavijesti/:page5


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## Puležan

MichiH said:


> Is it really an expressway with 2x2 lanes or minimum the construction of the first carriageway but the 2nd carriageway is planned according to a national demand plan et cetera? That's required to be added to my list, see first post.
> 
> I couldn't find any info that it's more than a "simple" 2-laned bypass or "expressroad".


It's 2x2 all the way:



Capo2041 said:


> Nije mi vrag dao mira pa sam se morao odmah sinoć provozati po novoj brzoj cesti. Krenuo sam iz Križevaca, izašao u Gradecu i opet natrag za Križevce. Vozno vrijeme u jednom smjeru je 5-6 min.
> 
> Kratki rezime: dugačka 12km, mostovi Kanal, Glogovnica i Tremovački potok, viadukti D32 (90m) i HŽ I (314m) te 3 ugibališta za zaustavljanje.
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## Puležan

The way back from Gradec exit to Križevci exit
(you can see that viaducts and bridges are built with an emergency lane /remnants from old plan to build motorway A12/ so this road could be easily upgraded to motorway standard)



Capo2041 said:


> Silazak u Gradecu i natrag za Križevce.
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## MichiH

Puležan said:


> It's 2x2 all the way:


Thanks for the great pics of *D10* Gradec – Krizevci but I asked about *D2* Virovitica - Suhopolje


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## x-type

MichiH said:


> Well, it seems to be 500m D10 and 500m access road :lol:


actually it really was 1 km (cca 300 metres of existing temporary 1+1 was upgraded to 2+2, and remaining 700 metres was completely new; access road is cca 500 metres tough)


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## Puležan

MichiH said:


> Thanks for the great pics of *D10* Gradec – Krizevci but I asked about *D2* Virovitica - Suhopolje


Sorry, I didn't read the post you quoted 
As for the D2, the first stage would be just one carriageway (but with space reservation for the second one).



x-type said:


> actually it really was 1 km (cca 300 metres of existing temporary 1+1 was upgraded to 2+2, and remaining 700 metres was completely new; access road is cca 500 metres tough)


I just wanted to say that :cheers:


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## Gedeon

x-type said:


> Karlovac was incredible bottleneck. I don't know how people were surviving it. All traffic from motorway Zagreb - Karlovac would stuck first at toll in Karlovac, and after that at city avenue, which cut the city in 2 halfs *and was impossible to cross it*.


There are several underpasses so it wasn't that much of a problem.


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## hofburg

Some photos of A7 direction Rijeka and Rijeka bypass

DSC07952 by hofburgh4, on Flickr

DSC07953 by hofburgh4, on Flickr

DSC07956 by hofburgh4, on Flickr

DSC07966 by hofburgh4, on Flickr

DSC07970 by hofburgh4, on Flickr

DSC07976 by hofburgh4, on Flickr

DSC07977 by hofburgh4, on Flickr

DSC07981 by hofburgh4, on Flickr

DSC07984 by hofburgh4, on Flickr


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## hofburg

DSC07989 by hofburgh4, on Flickr

DSC08001 by hofburgh4, on Flickr

And one more right after _Vrata Jadrana_ :cheers:

DSC08014 by hofburgh4, on Flickr


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## Seagull

Karaya said:


> It doesn't interest us since the whole project Jelšane - A1 is not a feasible project. It would be a burdon, like A4. EU gave 25% for the A4 but the darn thing still isn't bankable. Such a waste of DARS money and people's lifes. On the other hand the local projects with much more traffic are put on hold. Such a shame.





Solčavec;136817897 said:


> Between Rijeka and Postojna on the Slovenian side, there is no more highway in plan! Only new high-speed road(1+1), with the option of upgrading in the future, depending on the amount of traffic.


European Union is about connecting people. 
Your way of thinking is unfortunately not European, perheps it is a Balkan one.
The same opinions and "discussions" I heard about Ptuj-Macelj. It is now under construction....
I remind you that Greece is at this moment constructing about 500 km of higways. Feasibility is not given, but the EU is financing that nevertheless.


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## stickedy

1x1 road with future upgrade if necessary is okay. Croatia also did that in Dalmatia...


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## Karaya

Seagull said:


> European Union is about connecting people.
> Your way of thinking is unfortunately not European, perheps it is a Balkan one.


Good to hear. I'm sure people of Republika Srpska will be happy about that. After all, they are waiting almost 10 years for a tiny bridge over Sava river at Gradiška. #connectingpeople


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## FiveYears

Karaya said:


> Good to hear. I'm sure people of Republika Srpska will be happy about that. After all, they are waiting almost 10 years for a tiny bridge over Sava river at Gradiška. #connectingpeople


I can not see that corridor connects more than two countries, and you compare it with case of six. hno:

Anyway, where do you see EU on the south side of Sava river over there?


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## Nikolaj

italystf said:


> I find amusing that is almost entirely financed by Denmark, since also Germany benefits of it. I though it was around fifty-fifty.


Denmark provides a loan guarantee, but does not fund the Fehmernbelt tunnel. The Fehmernbelt tunnel is financed/funded by the users, who will be Germans, Swedes, Danes... and even some Croats


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## italystf

Duplication of A8 between the current end of the 2x2 section in Pazin and the entrance of Učka tunnel (28km) is scheduled to start in spring 2017 and should be completed by the end of 2019.
The concession of Bina Istra (the company that manages A8 and A9) has been extended from 2027 to 2037.
http://ilpiccolo.gelocal.it/trieste...ppia-corsia-entro-la-fine-del-2019-1.14529447


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## celevac

You mean A8?


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## italystf

celevac said:


> You mean A8?


Sorry, my mistake.


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## zezi

^^
That agreement needs to be confirmed.
It is not 100% sure


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## MichiH

MichiH said:


> *D14:* Andrasevec – Bedekovcina 5.0km (March 2015 to Fall 2016) [1st c/w]– ? – map





Gedeon said:


> *Andraševec-Bedekovčina (U/C)*
> Construction start : March 2015
> Opening planned: Autumn 2016
> 
> *Bedekovčina-Zlatar Bistrica (construction bidding underway)*
> Construction start planned: 2016


It seems that the construction of Andrasevec – Bedekovcina is delayed. Is there any estimated opening date?

What's about the next section up to Zlatar Bistrica. OSM indicates it u/c. When have construction works began and what's the completion deadline date or the announced opening date?


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## x-type

i have found the article that says Bedekovčina - Zlatar Bistrica by the end of 2018.

there is no reliable information about precise date of opening Andraševec - Bedekovčina. road is finished, only inspection is being waited. eligible company says end of the year, but more realistic is january 2017.


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## MichiH

x-type said:


> i have found the article that says Bedekovčina - Zlatar Bistrica by the end of 2018.


Thanks. That means, construction works have been started in 2016? Any info about the exact section lengths (however, I could also measure it on OSM)?



x-type said:


> there is no reliable information about precise date of opening Andraševec - Bedekovčina. road is finished, only inspection is being waited. eligible company says end of the year, but more realistic is january 2017.


End of year is tomorrow  Is January really realistic according to what forumers (or anyone) has seen on-site?


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## x-type

MichiH said:


> Thanks. That means, construction works have been started in 2016? Any info about the exact section lengths (however, I could also measure it on OSM)?


6,5 km. it seems that land expropriation is still going on, so no physical works yet.




MichiH said:


> End of year is tomorrow  Is January really realistic according to what forumers (or anyone) has seen on-site?


welcome to Croatia  nobody take terms as fixed here anymore since we don't have fixed strategy of road construction, as we had in intense construcion period in 2000es. btw the article that says end of the year is 2 days old :lol: (but it is actually about expressing suspicion about that :lol: )


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## Verso

I was in Zlatar Bistrica once... when I stepped on a wrong train. :lol:


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## x-type

Verso said:


> I was in Zlatar Bistrica once... when I stepped on a wrong train. :lol:


how for god's sake? the only thing that i think of is that you tried to reach Donja Stubica. 

I am quite often there, our company has one cooperator there. also, my father has few aunts and something like that nearby, his roots are from there.


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## Verso

^^ I wanted to get from Zabok to Zagreb (train Varaždin-Zagreb), but I stepped on a train Zagreb-Varaždin. :lol:


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## Gedeon

Verso said:


> I was in Zlatar Bistrica once... when I stepped on a wrong train. :lol:


Zlatar Bistrica exists because and is named after the railway station. It's name is a combination of two adjacent towns, Zlatar and Marija Bistrica.


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## Namibija

*Interstate bridge Svilaj (CRO - BIH)* @NNagib


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## Seagull

11 km of the expressway D12 between Vrbovec2 and Farkaševac in the direction of Bjelovar in Northern Croatia seem to be ready for delivery in April 2017 as planned,
































































































































Source: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=137579786&postcount=3563


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## SRC_100

^^
It is gonna be without hard shoulder?


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## Seagull

SRC_100 said:


> ^^
> It is gonna be without hard shoulder?


It's an expressway, so no hard shoulder.


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## rudiwien

Seagull said:


> 11 km of the expressway D12 between Vrbovec2 and Farkaševac in the direction of Bjelovar in Northern Croatia seem to be ready for delivery in April 2017 as planned,





SRC_100 said:


> ^^
> It is gonna be without hard shoulder?





Seagull said:


> It's an expressway, so no hard shoulder.



As some of the pictures show a finished "edge" adjacent to the asphalt - does that then mean if there will be no hard shoulder, that there will be actually no shoulder at all, not even a soft one (like the unpaved ones in Hungary)? Respectively just a very narrow shoulder like on a national road?


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## x-type

rudiwien said:


> As some of the pictures show a finished "edge" adjacent to the asphalt - does that then mean if there will be no hard shoulder, that there will be actually no shoulder at all, not even a soft one (like the unpaved ones in Hungary)? Respectively just a very narrow shoulder like on a national road?


only SOS niches. rest of the road is normal 3,50+3,50without any special shoulders.


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## x-type

MichiH said:


> It seems that the construction of Andrasevec – Bedekovcina is delayed. Is there any estimated opening date?
> 
> What's about the next section up to Zlatar Bistrica. OSM indicates it u/c. When have construction works began and what's the completion deadline date or the announced opening date?


now confirmed, at monday


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## zezi

*Croatia D14:* Andrasevec – Bedekovcina 5.0km (March 2015 to January 2017) [1st c/w]– ? – map
Opened for traffic today 06.02.2017.
News in croatian and some photos
http://www.jutarnji.hr/vijesti/hrva...e-i-onima-koji-idu-u-mariju-bistricu/5599271/


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## celevac

zezi said:


> *Croatia D14:* Andrasevec – Bedekovcina 5.0km (March 2015 to January 2017) [1st c/w]– ? – map
> Opened for traffic today 06.02.2017.
> News in croatian and some photos
> http://www.jutarnji.hr/vijesti/hrva...e-i-onima-koji-idu-u-mariju-bistricu/5599271/


Yes, this is good news. 

The article also mentions some dates: 


> Do kraja 2018. ova dionica do Zlatar Bistrice trebala bi biti gotova, pa se ide do Marije Bistrice i u konačnici do Popovca. Time se zaokružuje prsten oko Zagreba


The section to Zlatar Bistrica should be finished by the end of 2018, then construction will continue to Marija Bistrica and eventually to Popovec. Thereby, there will be a full circle road around Zagreb.

I'm not too sure about the last section between Marija Bistrica and Popovec, as it includes difficult terrain and IMHO would require some tunnels/bridges, depending on the design of the future expressway. 

It would indeed be a great shortcut / alternative for those traveling between Slavonija region and Krapina or even further north (Maribor, Graz, Vienna)


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## belerophon

celevac said:


> Yes, this is good news.
> 
> The article also mentions some dates:
> 
> 
> The section to Zlatar Bistrica should be finished by the end of 2018, then construction will continue to Marija Bistrica and eventually to Popovec. Thereby, there will be a full circle road around Zagreb.
> 
> I'm not too sure about the last section between Marija Bistrica and Popovec, as it includes difficult terrain and IMHO would require some tunnels/bridges, depending on the design of the future expressway.
> 
> It would indeed be a great shortcut / alternative for those traveling between Slavonija region and Krapina or even further north (Maribor, Graz, Vienna)


Why not to go over Zitomir and Hrastje after Marija Bistrica? 
Or even consider the route going over Donja Konjscina. The mountainous section could be much shorter, still it would not be a big detour. 

I wonder more why the connection between A2 and D14 is so funny. Ok, they reused the intersection. But now you have a roundabout there. And if you built the capitals ring road, it might also have been an idea to build a new I/C a bit north. For those coming from south to D14 this would not take longer, but coming from north to D14 (which would indeed relieve the southern ring) drive back.


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## roaddor

belerophon said:


> Why not to go over Zitomir and Hrastje after Marija Bistrica?
> Or even consider the route going over Donja Konjscina. The mountainous section could be much shorter, still it would not be a big detour.


Becasue most probably the idea is to reach A2 coming from A3 or vice versa, utilizing the most appropriate distance so that the small towns are also covered on the way to Zabok. Popovec and Zlatar Bistrica are the best match in this case. If the road passed through Zitomir or even as far as Donja Konjscina, it would not be attractive and by no means offload the SW highway bypass of Zagreb through Zapresic.


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## x-type

roaddor said:


> Becasue most probably the idea is to reach A2 coming from A3 or vice versa, utilizing the most appropriate distance so that the small towns are also covered on the way to Zabok. Popovec and Zlatar Bistrica are the best match in this case. If the road passed through Zitomir or even as far as Donja Konjscina, it would not be attractive and by no means offload the SW highway bypass of Zagreb through Zapresic.


actually the idea of that expressway is to make higher level road which would carry the traffic of parallel D24, which is quite slow, crowded and dangerous. 

also, it can be good connection ant shortcut from A4 to A2. not A3 because A3 directly merges to A2 at Zagreb west. but mostly it would have local importance.


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## JackFrost

> A5: north of Drava bridge – Osijek ~6km (July 2011 to >= April 2017)


What does "north of Drava bridge" mean exactly? To what road does it connect to? Road 4041 at Jagodnjak?


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## celevac

JackFrost said:


> What does "north of Drava bridge" mean exactly? To what road does it connect to? Road 4041 at Jagodnjak?


I think this goes back to a news article I had quoted here more than a year ago. There was no specific information on that, but maybe it would be possible to find more exact information.


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## JackFrost

So nobody knows exactly what happens on the northern side of the bridge?

One thing for sure: it will be an absolutely unique motorway on this planet until 2019 with dead ends on both ends.


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## čarli1

JackFrost said:


> So nobody knows exactly what happens on the northern side of the bridge?


On northern side of the bridge there will be dead end, so the whole bridge and the southern part of motorway (which is now also under construction) will be useless for some time. They could build exit which is planned to be around 3 km north of the bridge. But they wait for the EU money for entire section to Beli Manastir (which is planned to be for now only in half profile). Stupid decision if you ask me, because they should first do connection to the next exit (Čeminac) and then ask for EU money. But is not first time that something like that happend in CRO. One example is in Karlovac and another in Omiš:nuts:


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## bzbox

New toll prices from April, 3rd in Croatia. Again? Any official info about that and new price list?


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## celevac

http://dnevnik.hr/vijesti/hrvatska/...ati-pet-posto-skuplju-cestarinu---470023.html

Starting on April 3, there will be a 5% increase. Zagreb-Split will be 7 kn more.
There will also be an additional 10% increase during the summer season, from July 1 until September 30... obviously aiming at tourists. 

This country is doing everything to take as much money from tourists as possible, but I fear they might soon move on to other countries with better prices... this goes for the entire tourism industry here.


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## SRC_100

^^
Why only 10%, they should increase tolls for 100% at least...


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## keokiracer

SRC_100 said:


> ^^
> Why only 10%, they should increase tolls for 100% at least...


Do explain.


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## SRC_100

^^
sarcasm and/or irony


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## i15

celevac said:


> http://dnevnik.hr/vijesti/hrvatska/...ati-pet-posto-skuplju-cestarinu---470023.html
> 
> Starting on April 3, there will be a 5% increase. Zagreb-Split will be 7 kn more.
> There will also be an additional 10% increase during the summer season, from July 1 until September 30... obviously aiming at tourists.
> 
> This country is doing everything to take as much money from tourists as possible, but I fear they might soon move on to other countries with better prices... this goes for the entire tourism industry here.


Yes, Croatia is getting a little expensive and this year I decided to switch from hotel to apartement to save some money. But it is still better than possibility of cultural enrichment by AK47 in some other travel destinations. And 7kn is almost nothing when you consider all travel expenses for 4 people in a car.


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## Shenkey

celevac said:


> http://dnevnik.hr/vijesti/hrvatska/...ati-pet-posto-skuplju-cestarinu---470023.html
> 
> Starting on April 3, there will be a 5% increase. Zagreb-Split will be 7 kn more.
> There will also be an additional 10% increase during the summer season, from July 1 until September 30... obviously aiming at tourists.
> 
> This country is doing everything to take as much money from tourists as possible, but I fear they might soon move on to other countries with better prices... this goes for the entire tourism industry here.


Yeah, you pay the same to drive over Istria 2x than for a vignette in other countries.

No need to say I haven't been in a country for holidays for 5 years and I am from Slovenia. 

Greece/Portugal is just cheaper.


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## rudiwien

(Sorry if this has been asked a million times before )

With the construction of the A4 on the Slovenian side completing some time in the nearer future, are there any plans on Croatian side to upgrade the single-carriageway section near Krapina?

Or is the strategy for the summer months to keep border control speed slow enough for a single-carriageway, and thus to keep the traffic jam on the Slovenian side, rather than before the Krapina tunnels?


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## x-type

there are plans but realization is not in progress. probably if that single carriageway part would cause major jams, it would be doubled. i see potential problem because A2 is under quite bad concession where Strabag holds 51% of it.


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## Verso

Are there no traffic jams before the 2-lane section towards Slovenia?


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## x-type

not really. at least i have never noticed it. jams happen at toll Trakošćan only.


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## ChrisZwolle

This is reportedly near Zadar, after flash floods.


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## x-type

yep, it's ŽC6007 near Dračevac, exactly here.
https://www.google.hr/maps/@44.1950...4!1s_WzbL2x7NiuEOv0gRDAHUA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


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## MichiH

MichiH said:


> *A5:* north of Drava bridge – Osijek ~6km (July 2011 to 2017?) – ? – map
> *D12:* Vrbovec (D10) – Farkasevac 10.5km (? to Early 2018) – ? – map
> *A5:* Zoljani – HR/BIH border 2.0km (September 2011 to 2018) – ? – map


Any news about estimated opening dates?


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## celevac

Some users posted pictures in the Croatian forum lately http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=885992&page=132 

Regarding the section from A5/A3 to the HR/BIH border: Apparently, Croatia has finished construction of the whole section all the way down to Sava river. At the same time, Bosnia has now opened some 10km between Svilaj and Odžak (on the other side of Sava river), which are entirely useless as long as the bridge is not there. The bridge itself is still in a rather early stage, all there is so far are some pillars.

This news article from November stated that the bridge should be finished within 24 months. 

The works around the bridge west of Osijek seem quite finished, but obviously still not in use. In 2018, works are planned from the northern side of the bridge towards Beli Manastir. According to the new four-year road construction plan of the government, as referred to in the article linked above, the section from Osijek to Beli Manastir will be built in full profile 

Unfortunately, there is not a lot of news about the current construction. I am not sure how fast things will go from now.


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## samonaprijed

Section of A5 north of Osijek incl. the bridge is finished but can not be opened before the first exit in Beli Manastir is finished (as Čeminac is currently suspended). And it is epected that the motorway north of the bridge will start to be built somewhere in late 2018, so this section can not be opened before second half od 2020.
It is really absurd: we have bridge on Drava but not connecting roads, on Sava we have roads but not the bridge. Perhaps in 2021 will be possible to drive straight from Budapest to Modriča, with some luck even to Doboj.


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## stickedy

MichiH said:


> A5: Zoljani – HR/BIH border 2.0km (September 2011 to 2018) – ? – map


Afaik that section is finished since long time. But the of course Sava bridge is missing. And since there is no Exit, it's not opened.

https://www.google.de/maps/place/To...386149e!8m2!3d45.1282852!4d18.3151263!9m1!1b1

It's more like 1 km instead of 2


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## MichiH

^^ The section includes half of the bridge


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## x-type

stickedy said:


> Afaik that section is finished since long time. But the of course Sava bridge is missing. And since there is no Exit, it's not opened.
> 
> https://www.google.de/maps/place/To...386149e!8m2!3d45.1282852!4d18.3151263!9m1!1b1
> 
> It's more like 1 km instead of 2





MichiH said:


> ^^ The section includes half of the bridge


The most precise truth is that cca 2100 metres of motorway is waiting to be opened. That includes the distance between the centre of the exit Svilaj on A5 and the cadastre boundary of the Republic of Croatia (so it includes cca half of the bridge too).

If you would cound only missing part to be built, it is cca 400 metres.


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## MichiH

^^ I could "segment to be opened": http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=4...48702;80251;66330;80251;42706;60510;23928;0;0


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## x-type

MichiH said:


> ^^ I could "segment to be opened": http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=4...48702;80251;66330;80251;42706;60510;23928;0;0


This one is more precise actually, and you can find the actual border. Unfortunately, not in English (up right corner, fifth icon from the right side is the measurment tool).

http://preglednik.arkod.hr/ARKOD-We...C&map_x=642948.25&map_y=4997864.5&map_sc=1785


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## YLLIRICON

Just read on a news website that China will build the Bridge in Ploče and continue in the peninsula towards Dubrovnik, avoiding Neum in Bosnia, is there any contrite progress on the topic and when is it likely to start?


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## g.spinoza

^^ this is good news, there is no sense in the double crossing, even though, if I read openstreetmap well, the first one was already built, right?


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## celevac

The question will be how to connect the bridge to the existing motorway network. I assume they won't extend A1 from the current terminus to the bridge, so it will be the expressway down to Ploče, then a few km on the old D8 state road all the way to the bridge. 

Another issue: What to do with the state road on the peninsula - I've driven it a few times and it is really inadequate for transit - narrow, winding and slow, passing through a few villages. There would have to be a real solution (at least a grade-separated 1x1 expressway with space for future upgrades) to Zaton Doli.


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## g.spinoza

^^ Is there no space for a motorway?


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## x-type

g.spinoza said:


> ^^ Is there no space for a motorway?


There is and there are/were plans for expressway to be built. The most likely one includes 2 tunnels at Pelješac as the part of connector from the bridge to D414.










There are also some other plans which plan extension of that connector back to D8 south of penninsula. Something like this:









And third, there are some long term plans for connecting A1 (or A1 connector to Ploče named D425) to the bridge over or under Neretva valley. There is plan with number of tunnels under the valley, but I would rather see large viaduct over it, similar to viaduct Coltano at A12 in Italy near Livorno.


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## Junkie

My post on this thread was deleted which is wrong and I want to present now some information regarding this project.

First of all we know this project is political but let me put my thoughts. Although I think that Pelješki most should be built there was a better option:

The best way for resolving this issue was for the Federation of BiH and Croatia to negotiate a corridor from via KLEK and NEUM so to speak as it was in the West Berlin connected to West Germany.
So to speak Croatia would have saved LOADS of money. BiH would profit and no need for gigantic bridge.

This corridor would have worked as with no border controls and Croatia would have paid money to FBiH so to speak ONLY from 1st of May until 1st of September. After that regular border will operate. In the meantime BiH police would have watch out the corridor but take in mind that anyway entering BiH is anyway easy for Western tourists.


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## x-type

^^
"Free corridors" agreements didn't work with railways (SLO-HR, HR-BIH). How do you think it would work with roads?


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


>


Border along the coast? :hmm:


----------



## bewu1

Does the road administration intend to build the access roads to this bridge to be ready at the completion of the bridge?


----------



## x-type

bewu1 said:


> Does the road administration intend to build the access roads to this bridge to be ready at the completion of the bridge?


Yes, this is the part of the project, together with the tunnels at Pelješac.


----------



## nestvaran

Verso said:


> Border along the coast? :hmm:


It's obviously a very pretentious and incorrect map of the border, also excluding the tip of the Klek peninsula from BiH, despite the real situation stating otherwise


----------



## italystf

x-type said:


> ^^
> "Free corridors" agreements didn't work with railways (SLO-HR, HR-BIH). How do you think it would work with roads?


But they worked between Italy and Yugoslavia and between East and West Germany...


----------



## darko06

Look what we have here. Pretentious coalition between Slovenes (Verso) and Bosniaks (Nestvaran).
Dear fella from Sarajevo, show us all here the contracts between the Ottoman Empire and Serenissima, later between the Ottoman and Habsburg Empire. All this documents clearly state that the Ottoman Empire does not possess no right on maritime issues in Can. Di Stagno Piccolo, and the Vallane di Klek was the property of Serenissima.


----------



## darko06

Now you all may see how the mess the old Federation (aka Second Yugoslavia) was, not to mention the first one.


----------



## nestvaran

darko06 said:


> Look what we have here. Pretentious coalition between Slovenes (Verso) and Bosniaks (Nestvaran).
> Dear fella from Sarajevo, show us all here the contracts between the Ottoman Empire and Serenissima, later between the Ottoman and Habsburg Empire. All this documents clearly state that the Ottoman Empire does not possess no right on maritime issues in Can. Di Stagno Piccolo, and the Vallane di Klek was the property of Serenissima.


Boy do I have something even better for you :banana:










http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LWmviBS9T...zLX6HhUJHVg/s1600/karta+bih+1946+sutorina.jpg

:troll: (I'm gonna stop it here :lol:, sorry)


----------



## darko06

Cmmon kid, don't mess facts with wannabe negotiation plans, never enforced. Have courage and try to get back to Bosnia & Herzegovina Hercegnovi from Montenegrins.


----------



## darko06

The fact is that Hercegnovi was some 200-300 years upon the Ottoman rule as the integral part of Bosnia & Herzegovina, while the Vallane di Klek and Can. di Stagno Piccolo never were.


----------



## bewu1

x-type said:


> Yes, this is the part of the project, together with the tunnels at Pelješac.


Thx. Do you have any information, plans and timing of construction of this access roads?


----------



## Username1939

darko06 said:


> Look what we have here. Pretentious coalition between Slovenes (Verso) and Bosniaks (Nestvaran).
> Dear fella from Sarajevo, show us all here the contracts between the Ottoman Empire and Serenissima, later between the Ottoman and Habsburg Empire. All this documents clearly state that the Ottoman Empire does not possess no right on maritime issues in Can. Di Stagno Piccolo, and the Vallane di Klek was the property of Serenissima.


Let them be coalitional, that is all what they can do. :troll:


----------



## MichiH

MichiH said:


> *D12:* Vrbovec (D10) – Farkasevac 10.5km (? to Early 2018) – ? – map


Any news on this? Still expected to be opened "soon"?


----------



## Junkie

nestvaran said:


> Boy do I have something even better for you :banana:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LWmviBS9T...zLX6HhUJHVg/s1600/karta+bih+1946+sutorina.jpg
> 
> :troll: (I'm gonna stop it here :lol:, sorry)


In this exchange _actually_ 'Srpska' will have an exit to international waters :lol:


----------



## x-type

MichiH said:


> Any news on this? Still expected to be opened "soon"?


Yeah, still soon. Somehow i think that i read it should be opened in June, but I cannot find that source anymore.


----------



## Puležan

*D76 expressway*

Location: link

Zagvozd exit on A1 motorway 


















direction south









at-level crossing









beginnning of the expessway section (1+1)



























Sv. Ilija tunnel









4th longest road tunnel in Croatia (after Mala Kapela (A1), Sv. Rok (A1), Učka (A8))


----------



## Puležan

exit Bast (straight after the tunnel, the road's alignment is 2+2 on one carriageway without central median)




































the slope is quite strong









junction with D8 (Adriatic coastal highway)


----------



## Uppsala

So they still dont know now if they are going to build a bridge for the motorway so the motorway is only going in Croatia? Or if they are going to build the motorway in the Neum-sector in Bosnia and Herzegovina?


----------



## Puležan

Uppsala said:


> So they still dont know now if they are going to build a bridge for the motorway so the motorway is only going in Croatia? Or if they are going to build the motorway in the Neum-sector in Bosnia and Herzegovina?


The current plan for Peljesac bridge is to carry an 1+1 expressway (the bridge itself will have additional emergency lanes/hard shoulders), to connect now separated sections of D8 coastal highway ("Jadranska magistrala"). But the motorway exits Croatia and will continue through BIH up to the border with Montenegro.


----------



## Uppsala

Puležan said:


> The current plan for Peljesac bridge is to carry an 1+1 expressway (the bridge itself will have additional emergency lanes/hard shoulders), to connect now separated sections of D8 coastal highway ("Jadranska magistrala"). But the motorway exits Croatia and will continue through BIH up to the border with Montenegro.



Thank you! So the real motorway to Dubrovnik is going to pass the Neum-sector in BIH? So there are going to be a motorway from north of Croatia to Dubrovnik via Neum? HR-BIH-HR?

I know there is a motorway now going from Croatia to Bosnia and Herzegovina from Pozla Gora to BIH and that motorway continue a little bit on the Bosnian side of the border.


----------



## Gedeon

Uppsala said:


> Thank you! So the real motorway to Dubrovnik is going to pass the Neum-sector in BIH? So there are going to be a motorway from north of Croatia to Dubrovnik via Neum? HR-BIH-HR?
> 
> I know there is a motorway now going from Croatia to Bosnia and Herzegovina from Pozla Gora to BIH and that motorway continue a little bit on the Bosnian side of the border.


There isn't going to be a motorway in Croatia south of Neum. Motorway will pass close to Dubrovnik, but on the other side of the hills. That side is already BiH.

That motorway won't be built anytime soon, I'd wager.

This map is quite accurate. 
RED - motorways
BLUE - D8 coastal road (new Pelješac bridge alignment), built/upgraded on some sections to 1+1 expressway standard.


----------



## Uppsala

^^
Thank you!


----------



## Junkie

The red section is not only highway but its a real political issue in the Balkans (considering that Croatia/Dalmatia is partially in the Balkan sphere of interests).

First of all EBRD will give money only for the section that should pass thru BiH.
Second this future part of the Adriatic-Ionian highway should connect Greece with Italy along the coasts of both seas. 
Third in this project Montenegro and Albania have their hands since they are more or less isolated of any fast corridors and this is their chance to have exit.
Also Croatia didn't receive money for Peljesac and they did deal with the Chinese. Because Peljesac itself is a political project and its not part of any corridor.


----------



## Gedeon

Junkie said:


> Also Croatia didn't receive money for Peljesac and they did deal with the Chinese. Because Peljesac itself is a political project and its not part of any corridor.


WTF are you talking... Pelješac bridge is more than 80% financed with EU money. Chinese won the transparent EU bid... not our fault that offers of EU companies were a few hundred millions higher.


----------



## Junkie

Yes my meaning is correct, Chinese will do the job. It should have been EU works.


----------



## Gedeon

Junkie said:


> Yes my meaning is correct, Chinese will do the job. It should have been EU works.


You make 0 sense, man :lol:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

A "few hundred millions", of euros? That would be an insane difference that cannot be explained by more efficient works or lower profit margins.


----------



## Gedeon

ChrisZwolle said:


> A "few hundred millions", of euros? That would be an insane difference that cannot be explained by more efficient works or lower profit margins.


Kunas. 

Submitted bids were as follows:

Italian Astaldi and Turkish co-operants – 2,55 billion HRK wihout VAT (3,19 billion HRK with VAT)
Strabag – 2,62 billion HRK without VAT (3,28 billion HRK with VAT)
China road and bridge Corporation – 2,08 billion HRK without VAT ( 2,6 billion HRK with VAT)

Still, more than 60 million euro difference between Chinese and Italian bid.

And even the Chinese bid was not-so-slightly over-budget (budget was 1,75 billion HRK without VAT). Rising steel prices are supposedly to blame.

Astaldi and Strabag filed a complaint that Chinese plan on using cheaper Chinese-import steel, of course they couldn't prove such claims so it was dismissed :lol:


----------



## bumbar

*Northern Zagreb Bypass, third phase*

Expressway, D14: Bedekovčina - Zlatar Bistrica, 6.5 km (2017 - spring 2019).

This is a third phase of the construction of the northern Zagreb bypass.

Link to the local news:
http://www.zagorje.com/clanak/vijes...met-ce-biti-pustena-brza-cesta-do-zl-bistrice


----------



## bumbar

*D12: Vrbovec (D10) – Farkasevac*

Part of the D12 from Vrbovec - Farkaševac should be opened during summer 2018 (maybe July).

Link to the local news:
https://bjelovar.live/video-pronasli-rjesenje-za-brzu-cestu-od-srpnja-15-minuta-brze-do-zagreba/


----------



## roaddor

bumbar said:


> Expressway, D14: Bedekovčina - Zlatar Bistrica, 6.5 km (2017 - spring 2019).
> 
> This is a third phase of the construction of the northern Zagreb bypass.
> 
> Link to the local news:
> http://www.zagorje.com/clanak/vijes...met-ce-biti-pustena-brza-cesta-do-zl-bistrice


After Zlatar Bistrica, I suppose it will be continued to A4 (Komin/ Sveti Ivan Zelina).

What is the difference in Croatia between čvor and petlja regarding road junctions and are they mutually interchangeable?


----------



## Puležan

roaddor said:


> After Zlatar Bistrica, I suppose it will be continued to A4 (Komin/ Sveti Ivan Zelina).
> 
> What is the difference in Croatia between čvor and petlja regarding road junctions and are they mutually interchangeable?


Čvor, petlja=junction
Izlaz=exit

Čvor and petlja are the same, but the official term used in the legislative is "čvorište" (which has the same meaning as čvor and petlja. :crazy:

About D14: the road will continue from Zlatar Bistrica towards southeast and Popovec (A4), and there will be another 1+1 expressway branch from Zlatar Bistrica towards Breznički Hum (A4).


----------



## Gedeon

roaddor said:


> After Zlatar Bistrica, I suppose it will be continued to A4 (Komin/ Sveti Ivan Zelina).
> 
> What is the difference in Croatia between čvor and petlja regarding road junctions and are they mutually interchangeable?


Depends...

_HAC_ calls everything (interchanges and exits) "čvor" (knot), sometimes using "interregionalni čvor" for interchanges of two motorways. _Road traffic act_ mentions "izlaz" (exit) and "čvorište" (interchange) but there is no definition of either. _Road safety act_ and _Road planning regulation_ only mention "čvorište", presumably meaning both exit/interchange.

"Petlja" (loop) is colloquial term for any kind of grade separated junction, especially ones where you need to "make a loop" (cloverleaf, trumpet). Petlja with a capital "P" is a specific busy partial cloverleaf interchange in Zagreb, first of it's kind in Croatia (but it's on city roads, not motorway).

It's a mess :lol:


----------



## roaddor

Okay, I get your points. Nije vrat a šija.


----------



## Uppsala

When are they going to build the bridge over Sava for the A5? So the A5 can continue in BIH?


----------



## Puležan

Uppsala said:


> When are they going to build the bridge over Sava for the A5? So the A5 can continue in BIH?


It is currently being built:



theAlien said:


> *Update most Svilaj 16.04.2018.*.....BiH strana


----------



## Uppsala

^^
Thank you!

This looks very nice! :happy:

Do you know when they can open this lovely bridge?


----------



## smokiboy

Are there any plans to start soon continuation of A7 from Križišće further down along the coast? Or is this project on hold for now?


----------



## Puležan

smokiboy said:


> Are there any plans to start soon continuation of A7 from Križišće further down along the coast? Or is this project on hold for now?


The motorway won't be built soon, but something is happening - the Novi Vinodolski bypass is going to be built in 1+1 profile, which will later be incorporated into proper 2+2 motorway (A7). At the moment, there's a tender for project documentation.

Here's a link to the tender (in croatian):
https://eojn.nn.hr/spin/application/ipn/documentmanagement/DokumentPodaciFrm.aspx?id=1411742


----------



## italystf

kokomo said:


> Hi! I am planning a Croatian vacation next October and I was thinking of renting a car and driving from Dubrovnik to Split. I was wondering if there were any interesting spots on the way to see apart from Ston, I was thinking of taking the coastal road (D8 right?) along the Makarska coastside.
> 
> How complicated is the Neum strip crossing? Do you have to stop the car? Thanks


Of course you have to stop at the border, but if you have EU citizenship the ID is enough.


----------



## kokomo

Thanks. I read, perhaps it was outdated, sometimes you could just move along even without being stopped, that's why


----------



## Junkie

European citizens can into Western Balkan countries of BiH, Macedonia, Kosovo, Serbia, Albania and Montenegro with an ID card for up to 90 days per 180 days.

Why don't you read on the Internet? You are lucky about this and among other things of course as being EU citizen.


----------



## piotr71

kokomo said:


> Hi! I am planning a Croatian vacation next October and I was thinking of renting a car and driving from Dubrovnik to Split. I was wondering if there were any interesting spots on the way to see apart from Ston, I was thinking of taking the coastal road (D8 right?) along the Makarska coastside.
> 
> How complicated is the Neum strip crossing? Do you have to stop the car? Thanks


There is plenty of interesting places along D8, most of them are well described in guide books. Remember to keep green card with you, when crossing Bosnian border. There is no chance to obtain border insurance on Neum's border crossings. 



Junkie said:


> European citizens can into Western Balkan countries of BiH, Macedonia, *Kosovo*, Serbia, Albania and Montenegro with an ID card for up to 90 days per 180 days.
> 
> Why don't you read on the Internet? You are lucky about this and among other things of course as being EU citizen.


In case of Kosovo, biometric ID or passport are required


----------



## kdpy

Will be Peljesac Bridge a section of A1 or the end of A1 will be still before Ploce? Motorway between Bosnian border and Ploce interchange is called A10 so A1 may go to the Dubrovnik. Somewhere on the D425 will be new interchange and A1 will go to from that interchange to the bridge?


----------



## italystf

piotr71 said:


> In case of Kosovo, biometric ID or passport are required


Officially all sources say that... de facto... I know that some people have crossed successfully into RKS with non-biometric ID. Maybe some border guards don't care or they "close an eye" in exchange of a "donation".


----------



## stickedy

kdpy said:


> Will be Peljesac Bridge a section of A1 or the end of A1 will be still before Ploce? Motorway between Bosnian border and Ploce interchange is called A10 so A1 may go to the Dubrovnik. Somewhere on the D425 will be new interchange and A1 will go to from that interchange to the bridge?


No, Peljesac Bridge will be part of an expressway from Opuzen to Zaton Doli. 

There is a plan to make a new interchange and a new express way from the point D425 is now becoming 1x1 instead of 2x2 to somewhere near Opuzen. This will then be connected to the bridge. But that is not near future, the road to the bridge will be parted from D8 just near the bridge (you can already see it on satellite images). But maybe they also bring A1 from Nova Sela to Opuzen, depends on the future of A1.

Original plan of A1 was to be routed through BiH near Dubrovnik - or better a motorway from Zaton Doli to Dubrovnik. Then this was changed and an expressway/upgrade of D8 was planned instead with the motorway (Adriatic-Ionian motorway) routed completly through BiH. However, years have passed, nothing happened in BiH & Croatia and now there is a nationalistic government again. So maybe, A1 to Dubrovnik (starting at Zaton Doli) is again on the agenda internally. Then most likely, you will see A1 to Opuzen, then the new expressway to Zaton Doli with the bridge and A1 again.

But so or so, money is a problem so don't expect anything beside the bridge and a few kilometers of access roads in the next years.


----------



## tfd543

You can go to the historic city of Knin that gained fame like Vukovar in the war time. Only if youre interested in the past of course.


----------



## kokomo

Junkie said:


> Why don't you read on the Internet?


Wow, take it easy fella! Slow down a little. I am asking here, in the Croatian forum, because I have already done my job checking at the internet and I have found information, sometimes contradictory, stating that crossing the corridor can be like playing in the Casino roulette. So, I am trying to get a bit more confirmation of that by people perhaps using it more frequently this road.

No need to exasperate. 



tfd543 said:


> You can go to the historic city of Knin that gained fame like Vukovar in the war time. Only if youre interested in the past of course.


Knin seems way far off the coast. But I appreciate your suggestion

To all the rest, thanks so much for your comments


----------



## x-type

tfd543 said:


> You can go to the historic city of Knin that gained fame like Vukovar in the war time. Only if youre interested in the past of course.


Knin is not on his route between Dubrovnik and Split. 

Beside Ston, you have Makarska and Omiš with surroundings. However, those places are worth to spend vacation there, but do not have too much sights. Omiš has nice cliff and fortresses above the city, river Cetina canyon. Above Makarska you have Biokovo mountain so you can climb with car up to the top Sveti Jure which gives you stunning view from its 1762 m a.s.l. on nearby sea and Dalmatian archipelago. If you are into sunbathing, the area between Podgora and Brela will offer you the best beaches.


----------



## MichiH

I think we need a FABQ thread here (Frequently Asked Balkan Questions)


----------



## Junkie

piotr71 said:


> In case of Kosovo, *biometric ID* or passport are required


What are you talking about? Do you even know that all of the EU id cards are biometric anyway?
Also all of the Balkan countries issue them as biometric only.

Only Ukraine, Russia, Belarus and possibly the Caucasus countries don't have them. I am not sure for Turkey. But they are not EU.


----------



## piotr71

italystf said:


> Officially all sources say that... de facto... I know that some people have crossed successfully into RKS with non-biometric ID. Maybe some border guards don't care or they "close an eye" in exchange of a "donation".


It was possible to cross with a regular ID card until recently from Serbian side. However, as far as I know, this possibility ceased since new regulations has been applied on Kosovo-Serbia border.



Junkie said:


> What are you talking about? *Do you even know that all of the EU id cards are biometric anyway?*
> Also all of the Balkan countries issue them as biometric only.
> 
> Only Ukraine, Russia, Belarus and possibly the Caucasus countries don't have them. I am not sure for Turkey. But they are not EU.


No, I do not know. Interestingly, mine is not biometric, even though it has been issued by one of the EU countries.


----------



## x-type

MichiH said:


> I think we need a FABQ thread here (Frequently Asked Balkan Questions)


Actually he started first 
This thread is suitable for his questions:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=641509


----------



## kokomo

Thanks! I was not aware of it!


----------



## MichiH

piotr71 said:


> No, I do not know. Interestingly, mine is not biometric, even though it has been issued by one of the EU countries.


My German ID is also not a biometric one because it was issued before 2010. Since November 2010 only biometric IDs are issued. That means they have a RFID chip: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_identity_card#History



> The chip stores the information given on the ID card (like name or date of birth), the holder's picture, and, if the holder wishes so, also his/her fingerprints.


----------



## piotr71

In Poland, biometric ID cards are supposed to be implemented in 2019.


----------



## BL2

Junkie said:


> What are you talking about? *Do you even know that all of the EU id cards are biometric anyway?*
> Also all of the Balkan countries issue them as biometric only.
> 
> Only Ukraine, Russia, Belarus and possibly the Caucasus countries don't have them. I am not sure for Turkey. But they are not EU.


they are not. I have Italian friend he has paper ID.
You are embarrassing yourself again, but i guess you got used to it.


----------



## Junkie

Those are the old cards. The new once which are ISSUED as of 27/04/2018 are electronic based plastic ID cards.

Are you Bosnian?


----------



## BL2

^^let me quote it again


> Do you even know that all of the EU id cards are biometric anyway?


let me rephrase it to be correct:
"Do you even know that all of the EU id cards *currently *issued are biometric anyway?"


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Interesting discussion about Croatian motorways.


----------



## bzbox

Does anyone have any old images of A3 like this one?










It's interesting to see the old #4 sign and SiCG abbreviation.


----------



## italystf

BL2 said:


> they are not. I have Italian friend he has paper ID.
> You are embarrassing yourself again, but i guess you got used to it.


In Italy the introduction of electronic ID, initially conceived in the early 2000s, is slowed down by the high cost of appliances to make them. Until very recently only few municipalities, usually major cities, issued them. Since last year more and more municipalities acquired the appliance to issue them and, starting from August 2018, every municipality will be obliged by law to issue electronic IDs. Existing paper IDs will remain valid until they expire.

Sorry for the OT.


----------



## italystf

bzbox said:


> It's interesting to see the old #4 sign and SiCG abbreviation.


Srbja i Crna Gora? That would be the only 4-letters country code ever in existence.


----------



## stickedy

italystf said:


> Srbja i Crna Gora? That would be the only 4-letters country code ever in existence.


Officially it was SCG


----------



## Palance

bzbox said:


> Does anyone have any old images of A3 like this one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's interesting to see the old #4 sign and SiCG abbreviation.


Here is one with YU on it:


----------



## x-type

Really interesting signs because with new design came new nomenclature, so it should be A3, but it is still D4. Very very rare situation!


----------



## Puležan

A7 motorway (expressway standard: 2x2, without hard shoulders, 100 km/h)

route: link



Puležan said:


> A7 Krizisce-Orehovica (1/4)
> 
> zanemarite posmrtne ostatke buba na sajbi :lol:


----------



## Puležan

moving on...



Puležan said:


> A7 Krizisce-Orehovica (2/4)


----------



## Puležan

Puležan said:


> A7 Krizisce-Orehovica (3/4)


----------



## Puležan

last post:



Puležan said:


> A7 Krizisce-Orehovica (4/4)


----------



## roaddor

What are the current plans to continue A7 to Zuta lokva/ A1?


----------



## Eulanthe

x-type said:


> Really interesting signs because with new design came new nomenclature, so it should be A3, but it is still D4. Very very rare situation!


When did it change from D4 to A3?

About the earlier discussion about the A1 - I think it's pretty obvious at this point that *if* the bridge gets built, then Croatia will find a way to get the A1 funded from Zaton to the Montenegrin border. The EU has said "no" right now, but with Montenegro moving steadily towards EU membership, it starts to have strategic sense. 

I've said it before, but I'm really surprised that Croatia can't make a commercial project out of a Zaton - Čilipi motorway. Tourists would pay 30kn for the section between the airport and the city without question, and the final 16km section through Konavle should be cheap to build, yet Croatia could easily charge 30kn for that too. 60kn (8 Euro) for the 50km beween Zaton and the border would bring in plenty of revenue, and they could even charge an additional toll for exiting/entering at the Dubrovnik junctions.


----------



## Puležan

roaddor said:


> What are the current plans to continue A7 to Zuta lokva/ A1?


Nothing yet...


----------



## Puležan

Eulanthe said:


> When did it change from D4 to A3?


Somewhere in the mid-2000's. Until then, all existing motorways had D-designations (state roads):
- A4, A7 (Rijeka bypass), A/B8 were D3
- A3 was D4...



> About the earlier discussion about the A1 - I think it's pretty obvious at this point that *if* the bridge gets built, then Croatia will find a way to get the A1 funded from Zaton to the Montenegrin border. The EU has said "no" right now, but with Montenegro moving steadily towards EU membership, it starts to have strategic sense.
> 
> I've said it before, but I'm really surprised that Croatia can't make a commercial project out of a Zaton - Čilipi motorway. Tourists would pay 30kn for the section between the airport and the city without question, and the final 16km section through Konavle should be cheap to build, yet Croatia could easily charge 30kn for that too. 60kn (8 Euro) for the 50km beween Zaton and the border would bring in plenty of revenue, and they could even charge an additional toll for exiting/entering at the Dubrovnik junctions.


Don't you think it would be too expensive to pay 60 kn for 50 km? Even now people are complaining about expensive tolls in Croatia, eslecially during summer...


----------



## bzbox

Puležan said:


> Don't you think it would be too expensive to pay 60 kn for 50 km? Even now people are complaining about expensive tolls in Croatia, eslecially during summer...


And yet, you still want to raise toll prices by 1.7.?


----------



## Eulanthe

Puležan said:


> Don't you think it would be too expensive to pay 60 kn for 50 km? Even now people are complaining about expensive tolls in Croatia, eslecially during summer...


No, not around Dubrovnik and towards Montenegro, especially given that it would offer quick and easy access to Dubrovnik from the airport, but also would get tourists to Karasovici within 7-8 minutes from the airport. It would be expensive for those in transit between the Neum area and Montenegro, but how many people are doing that journey?

The A2 is already 32/48kn from Zagreb to Macelj for a comparable distance, so I think it wouldn't attract too many complaints, especially given that Dubrovnik is already an expensive destination. Tourists would take the motorway without question, especially if the D8 through Konavle was reduced to a 50km/h limit. 

I suppose the real question is whether 300kn (40 Euro) is too high for Zagreb-Dubrovnik. It's 600km, so around 0.06 Euro cent / km.


----------



## x-type

Eulanthe said:


> When did it change from D4 to A3?





Puležan said:


> Somewhere in the mid-2000's. Until then, all existing motorways had D-designations (state roads):
> - A4, A7 (Rijeka bypass), A/B8 were D3
> - A3 was D4...


Early 2000's. In 2003 A1 was already signed as A1. New redesigned traffic signs with white background came in the summer 2001, probably new motorway numbers came in 2002.


----------



## stickedy

Eulanthe said:


> No, not around Dubrovnik and towards Montenegro, especially given that it would offer quick and easy access to Dubrovnik from the airport, but also would get tourists to Karasovici within 7-8 minutes from the airport. It would be expensive for those in transit between the Neum area and Montenegro, but how many people are doing that journey?


A lot! Basically all the people waiting at the big queues at the HR-MNE border during summer...

However, given the traffic, also a smaller amount would refinance the project in a reasonable time.

Something has to happen around Dubrovnik! That's hell in summer


----------



## Gedeon

Eulanthe said:


> No, not around Dubrovnik and towards Montenegro, especially given that it would offer quick and easy access to Dubrovnik from the airport, but also would get tourists to Karasovici within 7-8 minutes from the airport. It would be expensive for those in transit between the Neum area and Montenegro, but how many people are doing that journey?
> 
> The A2 is already 32/48kn from Zagreb to Macelj for a comparable distance, so I think it wouldn't attract too many complaints, especially given that Dubrovnik is already an expensive destination. Tourists would take the motorway without question, especially if the D8 through Konavle was reduced to a 50km/h limit.
> 
> I suppose the real question is whether 300kn (40 Euro) is too high for Zagreb-Dubrovnik. It's 600km, so around 0.06 Euro cent / km.


There is no room to build motorway around Dubrovnik and not f​uck-up views/ecology.


----------



## BL2

Namibija said:


> Regarding this "no access motorway through Neum territory", I personally wouldn't mind, but as I said, even locals are opposed to that idea, because it will sort of *cut them of from the rest of the country*.


in what way?


----------



## Verso

If Yugoslavia could've built a road through Italy, then I don't see a problem here. And there're these things called over- and underpasses.


----------



## Namibija

BL2 said:


> in what way?


http://balkans.aljazeera.net/vijesti/neum-protiv-koridora-sarajevo-protiv-mosta

I don't know how either, but they insist on the idea, that this kind of a road will isolate them.

"We strongly oppose the idea of building this road which would split territory of Neum in two pieces, using the most vital parts of its outback. We don't want to live in ghetto. We don't want that someone is trading our territory." - Živko Matuško, mayor of Neum municipality.


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## stickedy

Things become complicated if there should e.g. a bridge or underpass be built in the future after initial construction: Who pays for it, who is responsible for road block, who gives permission for workers and so on.

The same for water, gas, electricity, telephone and so on.

And it can't be compared to that Yugoslavian (Slovenian) road through Italy:
1. On the "cut-off" part of Italy was mainly just a mountain, no settlement, no fields
2. The road is much shorter


----------



## alserrod

Main French railway network go through Monaco indeed.

A tunnel would be terribly expensive. Even a bridge would be cheaper


----------



## Verso

Is Bakar cut off from Škrljevo or the rest of Croatia? Is Rijeka cut off from the rest of Croatia? No, because there are overpasses and underpasses.


----------



## keber

alserrod said:


> Main French railway network go through Monaco indeed.
> 
> A tunnel would be terribly expensive. Even a bridge would be cheaper


Two 2 km long motorway tunnels (5,5 km is the straight line over bosnian territory) in rocky terrain would cost 100 million euro at most, and with one connecting exit and all other necessary roads additional 50 or 100 at most. Bridge with necessary roads is over 400 million.


----------



## stickedy

Verso said:


> Is Bakar cut off from Škrljevo or the rest of Croatia? Is Rijeka cut off from the rest of Croatia? No, because there are overpasses and underpasses.


That motorway would then be an extraterritorial area where BiH has no authority any more. That you can describe as being cut-off (like Dubronvik area is cut-off from rest of Croatia because of Neum).

If this really would be a problem is another point. And any things could also be handled by contracts. But there needs to be the will for negotiations to do that... From both sides.


----------



## Verso

^ BIH would retain authority in the corridor, it just wouldn't exercise it a lot. AFAIK, Slovenia is responsible for maintenance of the road through Italy and it's part of the Slovenian road R2-402, but it's still part of Italy and it also has an Italian designation (NSA55).


----------



## sbondorf

Namibija said:


> Pelješac bridge is logical solution, and that project will be finished sooner or later. Only problem was, that strait between Pelješac peninsula and Dalmatian shore is only water corridor to Bosnian sea territory, and some political elites in B&H consider this as attack on sovereignty, because that strait will become limited and only ships of certain size could access Bay of Neum.


Similar, but bigger, political problems have been settled in the past: Denmark and Sweden have put bridges across all three entrance straits to the Baltic Sea without loud Russian complaints. This, of course, is a matter of bridge design and dimensions. But it is worth noting that a vessel - like eg a large offshore construction - which at the same time is >65m tall and goes >7m in depth cannot enter the Baltic Sea.
And there were serious plans to build these bridges back in the Cold War days where the Soviet Union and two other Warsaw Pact countries were subjected to these limitations. The bridges were not built back then, but that was due to lack of funds, not Soviet complaints.


----------



## satanism

Thats not true, the Oeresund link is a part-tunnel crossing.


----------



## keber

To more down-to-earth themes:
what is happening with all those permanent speed limits that are flourishing over all of Croatia motorway network? I noticed them last year, this year there are even omro of them. Many 120 or even 100 km/h speed limits for no reason at all.


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## sbondorf

satanism said:


> Thats not true, the Oeresund link is a part-tunnel crossing.


Well, yes, but the waterway over the tunnel has a max depth of only 8m, which is (and always has been, also before the tunnel was built) too shallow for large ships. Such ships must go through Storebælt instead.
This article is about a very large sailship with 90m masts and a draft of around 8m, thus pushing these limits fully: https://minbaad.dk/nyhed/article/verdens-stoerste-sejlskib-sejler-gennem-oeresund/


----------



## MattiG

sbondorf said:


> Similar, but bigger, political problems have been settled in the past: Denmark and Sweden have put bridges across all three entrance straits to the Baltic Sea without loud Russian complaints. This, of course, is a matter of bridge design and dimensions. But it is worth noting that a vessel - like eg a large offshore construction - which at the same time is >65m tall and goes >7m in depth cannot enter the Baltic Sea.
> And there were serious plans to build these bridges back in the Cold War days where the Soviet Union and two other Warsaw Pact countries were subjected to these limitations. The bridges were not built back then, but that was due to lack of funds, not Soviet complaints.


The Great Belt bridge project created an open dispute in 1991 between Denmark and Finland, because Finland wanted to protect its oil rig industry. The case was brought into the International Court of Justice, as Finland saw it as a violation to the existing agreements. Denmark admitted that it has committed to a free passage to all commercial vessels at the Copenhagen Convention of 1857, but it denied that oil rigs and other such structures were ships.

The dispute was, however, settled out of court in 1992. Denmark and Finland negotiated in a friendly manner an agreement, which entitled Finland to receive a nominal compensation and Denmark to build the bridge, and the case was discontinued.

Denmark and Finland are friends, and such a dispute was quite a shock in both countries.


----------



## italystf

MattiG said:


> The Great Belt bridge project created an open dispute in 1991 between Denmark and Finland, because Finland wanted to protect its oil rig industry. The case was brought into the International Court of Justice, as Finland saw it as a violation to the existing agreements. Denmark admitted that it has committed to a free passage to all commercial vessels at the Copenhagen Convention of 1857, but it denied that oil rigs and other such structures were ships.
> 
> The dispute was, however, settled out of court in 1992. Denmark and Finland negotiated in a friendly manner an agreement, which entitled Finland to receive a nominal compensation and Denmark to build the bridge, and the case was discontinued.
> 
> Denmark and Finland are friends, and such a dispute was quite a shock in both countries.


Wasn't it possible to build a movable span on the Storebælt bridge?


----------



## MattiG

italystf said:


> Wasn't it possible to build a movable span on the Storebælt bridge?


The waterway through the Great Belt is busy, which makes it necessary to build a fixed link for ships. An additional moveable span to allow the oil rigs to pass would be 100 meters wide. Such a construction would be very expensive. Better to do the final assembly of the rigs after passing the obstacles.


----------



## sbondorf

MattiG said:


> The waterway through the Great Belt is busy, which makes it necessary to build a fixed link for ships. An additional moveable span to allow the oil rigs to pass would be 100 meters wide. Such a construction would be very expensive. Better to do the final assembly of the rigs after passing the obstacles.


And if such a passage with unlimited height was really deemed necessary, a tunnel would probably have been a more feasible solution. Like at Fehmarn.


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## Verso

Today I noticed a sign for BIH on A2 by Jankomir (coming from Maribor). What about on A3 by Lučko (didn't drive there)? BIH is in both directions there (Slavonski Brod and Karlovac).


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> Today I noticed a sign for BIH on A2 by Jankomir (coming from Maribor). What about on A3 by Lučko (didn't drive there)? BIH is in both directions there (Slavonski Brod and Karlovac).


It must be some new signalization on A2. There is certainly no BIH on Lučko.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Average speed checks coming to motorways in Croatia: https://www.vecernji.hr/auti/tutor-...tomatski-nadzor-brzine-na-autocestama-1289585


----------



## KHS

*Pelješac bridge U/C*








Boyledd said:


>


Slobodna Dalmacija

:cheers:


----------



## KHS

*[A5] HR-BiH border bridge U/C*



theAlien said:


>


www.klix.ba

:cheers:


----------



## Verso

Nice, but it looks like Croatia is building motorways only to the Federation of BIH, but not to Banja Luka, which is in Republika Srpska.


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## KHS

Of course Verso


----------



## italystf

Verso said:


> Nice, but it looks like Croatia is building motorways only to the Federation of BIH, but not to Banja Luka, which is in Republika Srpska.


It's like Slovenia that completed all its motorways towards Italy, Austria, and Hungary, but not towards Croatia. :lol:


----------



## italystf

Is the Pelijesac bridge really supposed to open in 2022, like Wikipedia says? They say also that it won't be part of A1, but il will be an expressway. So the extension of A1 south of Ploce had been definitively cancelled?


----------



## Solčavec

italystf said:


> It's like Slovenia that completed all its motorways towards Italy, Austria, and Hungary, but not towards Croatia. :lol:


Karavanke tunnel is 1+1.


----------



## stickedy

italystf said:


> So the extension of A1 south of Ploce had been definitively cancelled?


No, there is still the idea around to construct A1 through Neum Corridor and then further south to Dubrovnik. Or at least the part from Doli to Dubrovnik. Maybe... The changing governments of the past had different ideas about connecting that part of Croatia.

However, it was always the plan, that Pelijesac bridge is independent from A1 and just an expressway bypass of Neum.


----------



## Verso

italystf said:


> It's like Slovenia that completed all its motorways towards Italy, Austria, and Hungary, but not towards Croatia. :lol:


There are 2 motorways from Slovenia to Croatia, and the first motorway (A2 Krška vas-Obrežje) was built already in 2004, which is 4 years earlier than A5 to Hungary.


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## BL2

Connection with RS is not priority for Croatia and they didn't want to finance it, without help of EU. Finance for connection with FBiH is part of international road corridor Vc, that's why they got financing for that project. EU doesn't finance motorway connection that strongly as in the past, accent is on the railroads. And Croatia doesn't want to go extra mile to finance project that is not that useful for them, especially because relations that Croatia has with Serbs is very bad. It is simple as that, no conspiracies there. Same was with Slovenia and Croatia. For Slovenia connecting to western neighbours was priority.


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## Verso

There is like 10 km of flat terrain between Okučani (A3) and R. Srpska.


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## Namibija

Verso said:


> There is like 10 km of flat terrain between Okučani (A3) and R. Srpska.


Man, Croatia is in the process of public tender for Gradiška bridge. 

Motorway E661, which will connect Banja Luka (administrative center of RS) to Croatian motorway network is quite "younger" project than motorway E73 (Corridor Vc), and has lower priority for funding by EU.

Croatia will build connection of Okučani and Gradiška, since their government, put it on the list of the plans for road construction.

In R. Srpska, they made plans to build a motorway from Banja Luka to Prijedor and after that to expand the link towards Novi Grad which is on border with Croatia. 

So they are expecting that Croatia will expand their motorway A11 (Zagreb - Sisak), from Sisak towards Dvor (which is bordering with Novi Grad in Bosnia) and they will get another motorway connection with Croatia and rest of the Europe.


----------



## Shenkey

italystf said:


> It's like Slovenia that completed all its motorways towards Italy, Austria, and Hungary, but not towards Croatia. :lol:


We didn't build all of them to Austria. There is still a plan for a connection in Koroska/Karenten.


----------



## rudiwien

Shenkey said:


> We didn't build all of them to Austria. There is still a plan for a connection in Koroska/Karenten.



Really? Where? All the way to the border?


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## Verso

^^ https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=156193372#post156193372


----------



## Seagull

italystf said:


> Is the Pelijesac bridge really supposed to open in 2022, like Wikipedia says? They say also that it won't be part of A1, but il will be an expressway. So the extension of A1 south of Ploce had been definitively cancelled?





stickedy said:


> No, there is still the idea around to construct A1 through Neum Corridor and then further south to Dubrovnik. Or at least the part from Doli to Dubrovnik. Maybe... The changing governments of the past had different ideas about connecting that part of Croatia.
> 
> However, it was always the plan, that Pelijesac bridge is independent from A1 and just an expressway bypass of Neum.


1. Croatian Ministry of Transportation is planning to connect Dubrovnik. 
A1 will be extended from Ploče to Dubrovnik. 
https://www.tportal.hr/vijesti/clan...nika-ali-i-elektronicke-vinjete-foto-20180602
2. A1 through Neum was never an option just some unrealistic ideas, but never a project. There is nothing like Neum Corridor. It was just a matter of pressure and blackmail for Bosnian politicians.
3. The mayor of Dubrovnik is saying recently that Dubrovnik should have the highway connection. Meaning that A1 should be built to Metković and Osojnik - meaning over the Pelješac bridge. The connection roads to the bridge are going to be constructed now as a single carriageway planning a widening to a dual carriageway in the future.
https://slobodnadalmacija.hr/dalmac...kola-dobroslavic-autocesta-mora-do-dubrovnika
4. Pelješac bridge is 21 m wide. Two 6,50 m carriageways with two lanes each permitt an avarage daily traffic of 30.000 vehicles, 4.000 trucks included.


----------



## threo2k

It would be a dream if I could drive on motorway A1 all down to Dubrovnik once in my lifetime  hopefully it happens somewhere in the future


----------



## Junkie

There will be no motorway to Dubrovnik but only "express way" thru Pelješac peninsula. The real project you are imagining is called Adriatic-Ionian highway which should pass just over Dubrovnik but in BIH.


----------



## threo2k

Junkie said:


> There will be no motorway to Dubrovnik but only "express way" thru Pelješac peninsula. The real project you are imagining is called Adriatic-Ionian highway which should pass just over Dubrovnik but in BIH.


Yes but I supposed this will be the fastest way to Dubrovnik? Surely they will have an exit from the highway to get down to the city?


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## Junkie

Croatia is not interested for this project because it passes thru BiH and this huge project that has to connect 5 countries has uncertainity thats why they actually started this bridge. It has a single reason -> to overpass BIH.


----------



## keber

Less promo, more facts - piling of bridge pylons is ended (photos were taken few days before that):


theAlien said:


> Eto, da se ne uspavamo  .... mjesta buducih stupova (pilona) su vec uocljiva:


----------



## KHS

keber said:


> Less promo, more facts


Well, people tend to forget this project in not only about the Pelješac bridge, but there is actually 32 kilometers of roads, bridges, viaducts and tunels. 
We can see some interesting 3D visualisation for the first time in this promo video 

jutarnji.hr

:cheers:


----------



## keber

I just wanted to say that a lot of construction is already happening on Pelješac bridge, but above photos are actually first photos from the construction on the international section of the forum. People are interested mostly in construction progress (also for planning their future journeys) not so much about renders (which are of course welcome too).


----------



## KHS

kay:

There was not mutch to see until now but is getting very interesting soon


----------



## belerophon

KHS said:


> Well, people tend to forget this project in not only about the Pelješac bridge, but there is actually 32 kilometers of roads, bridges, viaducts and tunels.
> We can see some interesting 3D visualisation for the first time in this promo video
> 
> :cheers:


Question: OSM shows only the connector roads to said peljesac-bridge u/c on both sides, but bypass of ston and neighboring villages as well as bypass of smaller villages of Zabride, Sparagovici, Boljenovici ans Methija on D414 as planned, not as u/c. When will construction there start? Without the bypass this will be bad for inhabitants and a serious bottleneck to the road as well.


----------



## KHS

As soon as tendering is finished... very complex procedures, appeals, problems

Text from jutarnji.hr

_"Nevertheless, the biggest problem for the Croatian Roads is the fact that they are not yet selected contractors of none of the two sections of the road. For the first section, for which construction is planned to last 33 months, the bids were opened on June 4 last year. After the selection of the Greek company JP & Avax the appeal was submitted by the Austrian Strabag. The State Commission for Control of Public Procurement has accepted the appeal, and Croatian Roads are yet to make a new decision on the Contractor. On the tender for the second section, for which the construction deadline is shortened to 28 months, the Croatian roads are about to selected between Strabage and the Greek JP & Avax who have tendered and submitted the bids."_


_"But no matter who will eventually be elected, it is now quite clear that works on the first section will not start before August, or a year after the start of the bridge building."_


We all hope that this soap opera will be over soon so the construction can start asap :cheers:


----------



## alserrod

Hello

I glanced one motorway that seems u/w inner Rijeka towards north
https://www.google.com/maps/place/R...373c6f383dcbb670!8m2!3d45.3270631!4d14.442176

Is google maps updated?. Are they halted?


----------



## x-type

alserrod said:


> Hello
> 
> I glanced one motorway that seems u/w inner Rijeka towards north
> https://www.google.com/maps/place/R...373c6f383dcbb670!8m2!3d45.3270631!4d14.442176
> 
> Is google maps updated?. Are they halted?


It's not a motorway, it is only 2 lane state road. Finished afaik.


----------



## alserrod

Thank you. 

What's final point it is finished?. This is, does it reach until Marcelji?


----------



## stickedy

alserrod said:


> Thank you.
> 
> What's final point it is finished?. This is, does it reach until Marcelji?


Most likely it's purpose is being a feeder road to the planned motorway bypass of Rijeka (A7).


----------



## KHS

Pelješac project 3d visualisation

:cheers:


----------



## alserrod

stickedy said:


> Most likely it's purpose is being a feeder road to the planned motorway bypass of Rijeka (A7).


OK, got it, but... it is currently u/w then?


----------



## keber

I will drive tomorrow in direction of Dubrovnik. Is there any publicly available platform to oversee construction of Pelješac bridge?


----------



## Uppsala

How is the decision to build a motorway between E70 / A3 and Gradiška in Republika Srpska? In Republika Srpska, they have more or less decided to build a bridge over Sava to Croatia. But how can Croatia build a motorway between the A3 and the new bridge at Gradiška?

Is there a decision on this? And when do you start building this motorway in Croatia?

This will be a short motorway in Croatia, the rest they take care of in Republika Srpska. This motorway will be important for the region if it can reach Croatia and, among other things, Zagreb.


----------



## Namibija

Uppsala said:


> How is the decision to build a motorway between E70 / A3 and Gradiška in Republika Srpska? In Republika Srpska, they have more or less decided to build a bridge over Sava to Croatia. But how can Croatia build a motorway between the A3 and the new bridge at Gradiška?
> 
> Is there a decision on this? And when do you start building this motorway in Croatia?
> 
> This will be a short motorway in Croatia, the rest they take care of in Republika Srpska. This motorway will be important for the region if it can reach Croatia and, among other things, Zagreb.


Interstate bridges and border crossings are state affairs of Bosnia and Herzegovina not entities which Republika Srpska is, everything depends on agreements between governments of Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina.

On the other side, Croatia agreed to build that bridge and connecting link to Okučani interchange, it's just not on the top of their priority list right now, since Pelješac bridge is huge deal at the moment, and they are finishing other border bridge with Bosnia and Herzegovina, at Svilaj, little further to the East of Gradiška.

The other thing with that project is funding, the bridge is partially funded by European Union, and I believe that Croatia is waiting for a couple more grants for that project.


----------



## BL2

^^
Bosnia and Herzegovina gets its legitimacy directly from entities not from aliens, meaning that it is an affair of entity. Instead of politicising the matter and pursuing your political goals and agendas try to stay on topic. 

The story of the Sava bridge is the long soap opera, Croatia is waiting for EU funds, because it doesn't want to invest own money in that project. The connection between the future bridge and A3 motorway in Croatia is under jurisdiction of Croatian Road Company HC and not HAC (Motorway Company) and the plan in the first phase is to connect the bridge with an express road to village Novi Varos and afterwards, sometime in the future (never) directly to A3. Interchange on A3 has been built from the beginning to accommodate intersection of two high traffic volume roads (motorways).


----------



## threo2k

A1 to Dubrovik: Regarding the Neum problem, what i really really really dont understand is: why cant they just build A1 to pass inside BiH with a exit down to Neum? Why is that so difficult to agree on? Croatians can just build the highway and pay for it all, and the people from Neum can than access it.

Why is this a big mess? can someone plz explain me?


----------



## campeonatohr

People are strange. 


Especially there.


----------



## keber

It is a Balkan thing. You can't understand it if you're not living there.


----------



## BL2

threo2k said:


> A1 to Dubrovik: Regarding the Neum problem, what i really really really dont understand is: why cant they just build A1 to pass inside BiH with a exit down to Neum? Why is that so difficult to agree on? Croatians can just build the highway and and for it all, and the people from Neum can than access it.
> 
> Why is this a big mess? can someone plz explain me?


It can be done, but I am not sure how determined Croatia really is to build motorway to Dubrovnik. The problem is that there is not much space to build motorway in that narrow part of Croatia, the plan was from the beginning to build Adriatic-Ioninian mwy through Herzegovina region, with a connection to Dubrovnik. I think that's the reason why Croatia is not that keen to build mwy through its territory. It would be too expensive and too demanding.


----------



## keber

I found a really nice overview stopping point beside main road to Dubrovnik, at the intersection for Komarna, just few meters before main construction yard entrance. If I were in charge I would make there a nice stand with some project info for public presentation, as many people are interested for this bridge but apparently no one cares for public relations in Croatian road authority. Two pictures taken with my mobile from yesterday:





























Four out of six large pillar sites are visible in the sea with Pelješac bridge end (you need to looks hard for the fourth one), and another two (closer) are surrounded by construction barge. Not much activity was seen but probably it would look much different looking through binoculars.


----------



## alserrod

About Rijeka bypass through north, does anyone know which side is on service and which one remains u/w?
Thx


----------



## x-type

keber said:


> It is a Balkan thing. You can't understand it if you're not living there.


The same happen also out of Balkan, north of Sava river. For instance railroad between Imeno (SLO) and Harmica (HR). Slovenia has put a veto of reconstructing it and making it operational just because Croatia was out od EU in that period when HR wnated to make it, and the railroad passes SLO-HR border several times. Just as that potential motorway through Neum.


----------



## satanism

The Balkan mentality does not simply end at a river lol


----------



## Verso

BL2 said:


> It can be done, but I am not sure how determined Croatia really is to build motorway to Dubrovnik. The problem is that there is not much space to build motorway in that narrow part of Croatia, the plan was from the beginning to build Adriatic-Ioninian mwy through Herzegovina region, with a connection to Dubrovnik. I think that's the reason why Croatia is not that keen to build mwy through its territory. It would be too expensive and too demanding.


Motorway or not, it would still be cheaper and shorter than the bridge, which they are apparently building (regardless if it will continue to Dubrovnik or even Montenegro as a motorway or not).


----------



## Junkie

Uppsala said:


> How is the decision to build a motorway between E70 / A3 and Gradiška in Republika Srpska? In Republika Srpska, they have more or less decided to build a bridge over Sava to Croatia. But how can Croatia build a motorway between the A3 and the new bridge at Gradiška?
> 
> Is there a decision on this? And when do you start building this motorway in Croatia?
> 
> This will be a short motorway in Croatia, the rest they take care of in Republika Srpska. This motorway will be important for the region if it can reach Croatia and, among other things, Zagreb.


I just want to correct you, please refer BIH as a whole country which is sovereign and independent it simply does have authority over all state borders and the government is in Sarajevo. 
Entity RS has nothing to do with state borders. And the name of the one of the entities is very confusing and make things trouble.



satanism said:


> The Balkan mentality does not simply end at a river lol


What do you mean? Croatia is a transitional Balkan state it is not really Balkan and Slovenia is definitely not.


----------



## Verso

x-type said:


> The same happen also out of Balkan, north of Sava river. For instance railroad between Imeno (SLO) and Harmica (HR). Slovenia has put a veto of reconstructing it and making it operational just because Croatia was out od EU in that period when HR wnated to make it, and the railroad passes SLO-HR border several times. Just as that potential motorway through Neum.


I don't think it's the same. You can't just renovate a railway on our territory. At least not without our supervision. But if you ask me, you can renovate (with our supervision) as many of our railroads as you like!


----------



## x-type

Verso said:


> I don't think it's the same. You can't just renovate a railway on our territory. At least not without our supervision. But if you ask me, you can renovate (with our supervision) as many of our railroads as you like!


Building new / renovating existing on foreign territory. Absolutely the same thing.


----------



## Verso

But isn't it Croatia who rejects a motorway/expressway through BIH? I don't know why BIH would be against it, especially Neum, which would continue being on the main route between Split and Dubrovnik.


----------



## kdpy

Bosnia and Herzegovina isn't member of EU and won't join Schengen soon. There would be necessary to build two border crossings where drivers would have to stop and lose time. It's also posssible to build extraterritorial highway without border crossings for drivers moving between Croatian territories but I think Bosnia would disagree. On Balkans are still unofficial territorial disputies and it complicates international investments. Peljesac Bridge isn't only economical but also political project to connect Dubrovnik and Zagreb without Bosnia. The same project is already in Poland where government is going to build channel connecting Elbląg and Baltic Sea without Russian territory.


----------



## Junkie

^^
Peljesac is project that Croatia has all rights to built it. Unfortunately it weakens BIH coastal waters but never breaks any international treaties, so I support Peljesac bridge.


----------



## kdpy

Junkie said:


> ^^
> Peljesac is project that Croatia has all rights to built it. Unfortunately it weakens BIH coastal waters but never breaks any international treaties, so I support Peljesac bridge.


I know. If bridge is high enough there won't be a problem for Bosnian harbour. I tried to explain why they build expensive bridge on Croatian territory instead of Bosnia. If you build on your territory you don't need consent of different country's authorities and you don't have problem with border crossings. I hope there will be built expressway or motorway to Dubrovnik or even Montenegro border in the future.


----------



## Junkie

I said its problem for BIH not because of "blocking its waters" but because BIH will lose from transit traffic and tourists passing thru Neum place. BIH will be bypassed for long.


----------



## Verso

kdpy said:


> If you build on your territory you don't need consent of different country's authorities and you don't have problem with border crossings.


But you get a problem of a longer route.


----------



## Gyorgy

Verso said:


> I don't think it's the same. You can't just renovate a railway on our territory. At least not without our supervision. But if you ask me, you can renovate (with our supervision) as many of our railroads as you like!


Actually Slovenian part of the railroad that is currently operational crosses into Croatian territory a few times, most noticeably here:

https://www.google.com/maps/@46.1439463,15.5982788,517m/data=!3m1!1e3 

But yes, it is still on Slovenian side of river Sotla, which is not the case with Croatian tunnel and so on, that can be accesed only from Slovenian side. And than we have a problem.


----------



## BL2

Junkie said:


> I said its problem for BIH not because of "blocking its waters" but because* BIH will lose from transit traffic *and tourists passing thru Neum place. BIH will be bypassed for long.


Everyone in Neum will be happy because of it.


----------



## zezi

Gyorgy said:


> Actually Slovenian part of the railroad that is currently operational crosses into Croatian territory a few times, most noticeably here:
> 
> https://www.google.com/maps/@46.1439463,15.5982788,517m/data=!3m1!1e3
> 
> But yes, it is still on Slovenian side of river Sotla, which is not the case with Croatian tunnel and so on, that can be accesed only from Slovenian side. And than we have a problem.


From Harmica to Klanjec (https://goo.gl/maps/sWLWibUhncMZoReB7 )railroad is mostly on Croatian territory, crosses to Slovenia and back, and it is easily accessed from HR side because it is on HR side of river


----------



## Verso

Gyorgy said:


> Actually Slovenian part of the railroad that is currently operational crosses into Croatian territory a few times, most noticeably here:
> 
> https://www.google.com/maps/@46.1439463,15.5982788,517m/data=!3m1!1e3
> 
> But yes, it is still on Slovenian side of river Sotla, which is not the case with Croatian tunnel and so on, that can be accesed only from Slovenian side. And than we have a problem.


Indeed, but what's with maintenance (if there's any)?


----------



## Junkie

BL2 said:


> Everyone in Neum will be happy because of it.


I suppose you mean in "Banja Luka" then yes.


----------



## BL2

^^I mean Neum, because locals from Neum have nothing from transit traffic, just traffic jams and town cut in two. I guess you don't even know to show Neum on the map, so why do you even write about it.


----------



## Junkie

No I mean correct. I said Banja Luka because Bosnian Serbs have always "something to say".


----------



## stickedy

BL2 said:


> ^^I mean Neum, because locals from Neum have nothing from transit traffic, just traffic jams and town cut in two. I guess you don't even know to show Neum on the map, so why do you even write about it.


I strongly doubt that all the owners of shops, restaurants and gas station in Neum will be happy at all. And all the people working there...


----------



## Namibija

stickedy said:


> I strongly doubt that all the owners of shops, restaurants and gas station in Neum will be happy at all. And all the people working there...


Neum is the only coastal town of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and exclusive part of Adriatic Coast, where most Bosnians are going for summer vacation, because it's cheap, they don't need passport and they don't need to change currency.

Croatia is becoming more and more world top A-list summer destination and it's becoming pretty expensive for average Bosnian tourist, so first alternative is Neum, second and third alternatives are Montenegro and Albania.

Neum it's getting right now, better highway towards central Herzegovina, so there is going to be even more domestic tourists, so trust me they don't need Croatian transit traffic, on the contrary, it's just creating unnecessary traffic jams in the middle of touristic season in this town.

Pelješac bridge is better solution for both countries, both will lose some, but both will get some. Croatia will lose lot of money in order to build it, Bosnia and Herzegovina will get decreased sea access level to Neum bay, but on the other side, benefits are bigger, Croatia will get functional transit road, over it's territory, while Bosnia and Herzegovina will have less unnecessary traffic.


----------



## celevac

Namibija said:


> Pelješac bridge is better solution for both countries, both will lose some, but both will get some. Croatia will lose lot of money in order to build it, Bosnia and Herzegovina will get decreased sea access level to Neum bay, but on the other side, benefits are bigger, Croatia will get functional transit road, over it's territory, while Bosnia and Herzegovina will have less unnecessary traffic.



Quite a lot of Croatians transiting to or from Dubrovnik will probably still go through Neum to buy cigarettes or get gas...


----------



## stickedy

Yes, all true. But the statement that "Everybody will be happy" is just too much.

I guess a lot of Neum inhabitants would have been more happier with some sort of bypass around Neum, but close to it and on BiH territory, so that they can still benefit from transit traffic easily without the negative side effects (e.g. traffic jams).

However, alea iacta est 

We will see how Neum will develop in the future.

And since a lot of people are way too "lazy" to e.g. leave the motorway for 10 minutes to get a much better gas price (in Germany and Austria you can easily save 30 Cent per liter), I doubt that there will be close as much shopping visitors there than before... People are just taking the bridge and expressway and bypass Neum.


----------



## Verso

Namibija said:


> Neum is the only coastal town of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and exclusive part of Adriatic Coast, where most Bosnians are going for summer vacation


Almost two million Bosnians in Neum? I doubt. 

I agree that Neum doesn't need foreign tourists in summer (same as the Slovenian coast doesn't really need them), but it probably needs them in winter.


----------



## x-type

Namibija said:


> Neum is the only coastal town of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and exclusive part of Adriatic Coast, where most Bosnians are going for summer vacation, because it's cheap, they don't need passport and they don't need to change currency.
> 
> Croatia is becoming more and more world top A-list summer destination and it's becoming pretty expensive for average Bosnian tourist, so first alternative is Neum, second and third alternatives are Montenegro and Albania.
> 
> Neum it's getting right now, better highway towards central Herzegovina, so there is going to be even more domestic tourists, so trust me they don't need Croatian transit traffic, on the contrary, it's just creating unnecessary traffic jams in the middle of touristic season in this town.
> 
> Pelješac bridge is better solution for both countries, both will lose some, but both will get some. Croatia will lose lot of money in order to build it, Bosnia and Herzegovina will get decreased sea access level to Neum bay, but on the other side, benefits are bigger, Croatia will get functional transit road, over it's territory, while Bosnia and Herzegovina will have less unnecessary traffic.


What do you mean decreased sea access level?


----------



## Namibija

Verso said:


> Almost two million Bosnians in Neum? I doubt.
> 
> I agree that Neum doesn't need foreign tourists in summer (same as the Slovenian coast doesn't really need them), but it probably needs them in winter.


Not two millions of course, but still a lot of them are spending their holidays there.

During the winter, there is lot of conferences and meetings, held there, since there is lot of hotels with capacity for events like that.

People from nearby Croatian cities will visit for shopping, and while gastronomic specialty Date shells, is banned in Croatian restaurants, in Bosnia and Herzegovina it's still on the menus, and Neum is very famous for that as well.



x-type said:


> What do you mean decreased sea access level?


You know what it means, but I will be glad to repeat it for you. 

It means that Bay of Neum, will get limit on size of the boats which can access it.


----------



## BL2

Junkie said:


> No I mean correct. I said Banja Luka because Bosnian Serbs *have always "something to say*".


such a bold statement coming from you.


----------



## x-type

Namibija said:


> You know what it means, but I will be glad to repeat it for you.
> 
> It means that Bay of Neum, will get limit on size of the boats which can access it.


Seriously, I don't. If not a problem, please show me an example of that limit.


----------



## alserrod

It seems they will have to make an agreement like in Mexico/Belize Chetumal Bay (ok... exactly conversely)

After an agreement, Belize allowed all Mexican ships to cross the Bay to reach Chetumal, due to it is all Belizian water.
There's only one exemption. Navy Mexican ships aren't welcome.

In that way, Mexico made a canal here
https://www.google.com/maps/@18.2082042,-87.873916,8651m/data=!3m1!1e3

for navy and avoid to cross Belize waters


----------



## tom666

x-type said:


> Seriously, I don't. If not a problem, please show me an example of that limit.


Let me help. Example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Seas_Voyager


----------



## zvonko

*Perfectly fits*


----------



## x-type

tom666 said:


> Let me help. Example:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Seas_Voyager


And it went to Neum exactly when in the past?


----------



## ok2

Junkie said:


> What do you mean? Croatia is a transitional Balkan state it is not really Balkan and Slovenia is definitely not.


I cannot talk about Slovenia, but I have a lot of friends who are originally from Croatia and based on what they are telling me, Croatia is very, very Balkan  Btw, next year I will be visiting/driving to Zadar and I was wondering what will be the better option? Sofia - Nis - Belgrade - Zagreb - Zadar or Sofia - Nis - Sarajevo - Zadar? How long is the wait on the border(s) and the road quality? Is it generally speaking safe to drive with foreign license plates there? According to *TripAdvisor* in some areas in Croatia if you drive a car with foreign license plates, the car may get vandalized.


----------



## yohaniv

Generally speaking from my experience it is safe (enough), and road quality is OK. I'd say Mid to South Italy range. 

Slovenia may be not Balkan by many standards but it is certainly heavily influenced by it. If we are talking state of mind and not geography here. And Croatia is Balkan state heavily influenced by the West. IMHO.


----------



## Namibija

x-type said:


> Seriously, I don't. If not a problem, please show me an example of that limit.


Look, let me make a statement at the beginning, this bridge is under construction and no one, except Croatian government couldn't stop its construction.

Nobody asks for any other solution for this problem anymore, Bosnia and Herzegovina was, as usual, slow and not so interested for this issue, expect few populist attempt of some politicians to make some protest, couple failed initiatives in Council of Ministers of Bosnia and Herzegovina, or a few media protests by Bosnian water experts and that's it. 

So Croatia decided to make a bridge, nobody from international community saw it as some issue, so I'm going to treat it the same way, this bridge will be huge deal for Croatia, it's very impressive and I'm looking forward to follow its construction progress on this thread.

The only thing that I've mentioned, and those are straight facts is, this bridge will stand on the only entrance to the only territorial sea waters of Bosnia and Herzegovina. After it gets constructed, the waterway below it will be limited, at maximum, to the height of 55 meters and the length of 200 meters.

Neum wasn't famous for being harbor to big ships, higher than 55 meters, but it gained it's specific status of being exclusive territorial waters, 27 years ago, and in future it won't be that impossible for some ship of that size to visit Neum. Of course, after Pelješac bridge is being completed, that won't be possible. 

So, with the Pelješac bridge, limit on the entrance to the territorial waters of Bosnia and Herzegovina is being put, you admit it or not. So even if in some scenario Pelješac bridge wouldn't be built and some ships of that size never sails into to the Bay of Neum, it's their right and argument "But large ships doesn't sail to Neum" is invalid, because country is feel free to do what they want with it's territory.

And in the end, I will repeat one more time, bridge is being built, that story is over, the fact is that bridge limits territorial waters of other country, but the fact is that nobody stopped Croatia to build it, so it's legal act, we are moving on, I hope we are going to have frequent updates of construction site on this thread.


----------



## zezi

tom666 said:


> Let me help. Example:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Seas_Voyager


FYI - Height of ship is measured from ships keel (not from sea surface) to ships top of mast. It is because ships draught is not always same.
Since this ship have draught of about 7 meters, "only" 49 meters is "air draft"
So she can pass under the bridge (55 meters clearance), together with her younger and bigger cousin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Seas_Explorer


----------



## Tenjac

ok2 said:


> I cannot talk about Slovenia, but I have a lot of friends who are originally from Croatia and based on what they are telling me, Croatia is very, very Balkan  Btw, next year I will be visiting/driving to Zadar and I was wondering what will be the better option? Sofia - Nis - Belgrade - Zagreb - Zadar or Sofia - Nis - Sarajevo - Zadar? How long is the wait on the border(s) and the road quality? Is it generally speaking safe to drive with foreign license plates there? According to *TripAdvisor* in some areas in Croatia if you drive a car with foreign license plates, the car may get vandalized.


The car may get vandalized even with domestic plates. E.g. car with Zagreb plates in Split and vice versa.

On the other question asked, Balkan peninsula is everything that is south of the line connecting Trieste and Odessa.


----------



## Palance

Car vandalizing unfortunately happens all over the world by stupid people.

I have driven in Croatia (and not only in the tourist areas) with my Dutch license plates, and none touched my car. I have driven with Croatian plates in BiH (both Federation and Srpska) and Montenegro and none did anything. I have seen Serbian cars in Croatia, undamaged.

Yes, it could sometimes happen by stupid people. Even in the Netherlands it occasionally happens that German cars are vandalized by brainless people.

Back to Pelješac: If BiH is concerned about the access to the Neum harbour, it should help by paying a tunnel.


----------



## tom666

x-type said:


> And it went to Neum exactly when in the past?


There may be plans for the future, dunno?


----------



## x-type

tom666 said:


> There may be plans for the future, dunno?


Never saw them, nor BIH had similar intensions before the bridge was neasr realization. Suddenly, Neum started to be potential cruiser harbour. But nobody yet has seen any plans for cruiser harbour there, or any plans to get some cruisers there. Nothing larger than fishing ship doesn't sail there.


----------



## alserrod

Neum harbour will be more interesting than Aqaba and Eilat ones
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.5243615,34.9747394,9498m/data=!3m1!1e3

(Eilat is the only harbour for Israel in the Red Sea, Aqaba ... is the only harbour for Jordania in all ist territory. I do not know how they deal with shores and national waters but you have four countries in the google image: Saudi Arabia, Jordania, Israel and Egypt!!!!)


----------



## stickedy

At least one point is quite easy: If some country would block Israeli ships or attack them, Israel will start a war. It'a Casus Belli, see Six-Day-War in 1967

But what exactly is the connection to Neum?


----------



## Namibija

stickedy said:


> At least one point is quite easy: If some country would block Israeli ships or attack them, Israel will start a war. It'a Casus Belli, see Six-Day-War in 1967
> 
> But what exactly is the connection to Neum?


Luckily, we don't have Israel vs. neighboring countries problem. 

Port that is actually the natural outlet for the economy of Bosnia and Herzegovina, is Ploče port which is situated on the mouth of Neretva river in Croatia.

Some of it's terminals are owned by government of Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, rail and road corridor Vc, that connects Budapest, Osijek, Sarajevo and Mostar ends there.


----------



## Derice Bannock

Dears, can you clarify which toll booths are ENC ONLY?

I can find od the web, that only Vučevica is, but someone told me that there are others... Thank you


----------



## Eulanthe

It's only a trial at Vučevica and only between 22:00-06:00. 

Surprising that they don't just convert these areas to ENC/automatic only, though. Traffic through such toll stations must be tiny during most of the year, so there's no reason to have someone working there.


----------



## Junkie

Truck with breaking problems and "wrong tempomat" has hit people with deadly consequences near Novska https://vijesti.hrt.hr/519330/kamion-naletio-na-grupu-ljudi-poginulo-dvoje


----------



## x-type

Junkie said:


> Truck with breaking problems and "wrong tempomat" has hit people with deadly consequences near Novska https://vijesti.hrt.hr/519330/kamion-naletio-na-grupu-ljudi-poginulo-dvoje


It happened at rest area. Very doubtful situation. First, I know that buses very often stop out of parking places at rest areas. I cannot claim that this one did the same, but it is probable. Further, the truck driver had accident 3 weeks ago by his guilt.The day before the accident he took strong medicines for low back pain. He hit them at vmax for trucks (in the middle of the rest area), so with cruise control on. He tried to explain that cruise control blocked, that brakes didn't work, but his explanations simply don't seem to be reasonable.


----------



## Derice Bannock

Eulanthe said:


> It's only a trial at Vučevica and only between 22:00-06:00.
> 
> Surprising that they don't just convert these areas to ENC/automatic only, though. Traffic through such toll stations must be tiny during most of the year, so there's no reason to have someone working there.


My words... I am looking forward to new toll system.


----------



## Eulanthe

I'd like to see a system of pre-payment, to be honest. There's no reason why they couldn't use numberplate recognition technology to allow people to buy their travel in advance online, which would really go a long way to easing the traffic during the summer.


----------



## Derice Bannock

I like the toll system in Hungary - time coupons I can buy online. Toll booths are bottlenecks... But I know that HAC needs money so bad... 

I like the idea of having online account with my license plate, the system will track my enter and exit point and THEN I will pay online my bill online via card. For my summer travels to HR I have ENC, but this is not elegant solution...


----------



## alserrod

I use barely tolled motorways due to my movements... but people who use them get electronic devices. They have a bank fee but they let you drive through without stopping (and several motorways can offer you discounts).


About northern Croatia motorways...

Rijeka-Rupa, I guess, one only fare to pay here
https://www.google.com/maps/place/R...373c6f383dcbb670!8m2!3d45.3270631!4d14.442176

Rijeka-Zagreb, I guess, ticket on entrance (https://www.google.com/maps/place/R...373c6f383dcbb670!8m2!3d45.3270631!4d14.442176) and paying on exit

About Istrian Y, how does it works?
I have found they are different, but do not find where...


----------



## zezi

Istrian Y is also closed systems, you take ticket on entrance and pay when you leave motorway.
Open systems like Rupa is also between Zagreb and Slovenia border. All others motorway have closed system


----------



## Verso

zezi said:


> Open systems like Rupa is also between Zagreb and Slovenia border.


Of course on the motorway towards Ljubljana, not Maribor.


----------



## x-type

alserrod said:


> I use barely tolled motorways due to my movements... but people who use them get electronic devices. They have a bank fee but they let you drive through without stopping (and several motorways can offer you discounts).


In Croatia it is opposite: using the e-tolling you actually get the discount (I don't know how much, cca 20% I think).


----------



## MichiH

zezi said:


> MichiH said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any news about D14 Bedekovcina – Zlatar Bistrica which was expected to be opened anytime... soon?
> 
> 
> 
> 30 June 2019
Click to expand...

Brza cesta do Zlatar Bistrice još nije otvorena za promet; The fast road to Zlatar Bistrica is not yet open for traffic (June 18)

It is reported that "some brave drivers" drove the new section illegally and that police has fined them. Final works are still executed and after the technical inspection, the road will be opened. There is not yet an official opening date.

The article was published two weeks ago but it seems that the section is still not yet in service.


----------



## zezi

No, still waiting for opening. Stay tuned 



dabendji2000 said:


> Brza cesta Mokrice - Marija Bistrica - Popovec, čvor Poznanovec.


Picture from week ago


----------



## theAlien

*Changes to Payment System on Croatian Highways Coming in 2022*


> ...will be presented to the public this week - and introduced on the roads in 2022.


https://www.total-croatia-news.com/travel/37033-croatian-highways


----------



## KHS

Next page


----------



## KHS

*Pelješac bridge U/C*



theAlien said:


> 15. 07. 2019.


:cheers:


----------



## threo2k

BiH can only thank them selves. Instead of reaching an agreement to build A1 highway through BiH with an Exit down to neum, now HR build this bridge which again will make less people visit neum and the tourism decreases.. good job


----------



## Eulanthe

theAlien said:


> *Changes to Payment System on Croatian Highways Coming in 2022*
> 
> https://www.total-croatia-news.com/travel/37033-croatian-highways


It's badly needed. Using numberplate recognition technology would get rid of the queues on the motorways, and as the majority of traffic crossing future-Schengen borders will have EU numberplates, it won't be a problem to enforce collection of the tolls. They can combine it with checks at non-EU border crossings to make sure that tolls are paid before leaving Croatia, too.

Tolls can easily be collected by requiring people to pay them online in advance or within 24 hours at any petrol station, as well as putting machines at rest areas/border crossings. Add in random enforcement after the last exit in the country (in cooperation with neighbouring countries) with high fines being handed out to anyone leaving without paying, and it won't be a problem to enforce the tolls. 

Of course, Croatia being Croatia, I can see them taking a system that involves a lot of needless difficulty.


----------



## Festin

with NFC on bank cards, the payment would be fast upon exiting the highway, or having e vignette for foreign transit cars that you pay before entering the country.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

NFC is great, but it needs to be fast. 

I always pay with NFC nowadays, in the Netherlands the payment is instant, but I've noticed that for example in Germany or France it takes much longer to read the card. When traffic flow is concerned, every second counts.


----------



## theAlien

Festin said:


> with NFC on bank cards, the payment would be fast upon exiting the highway, or having e vignette for foreign transit cars that you pay before entering the country.


*Two basic conditions* were established during the study (research) the new payment system (for everybody and each vehicle): *driving costs only per kilometer * (so, _*no vignette_) ... and driving *without stopping* (no stopping traffic or drastic speed reduction when entering/exiting the highway ... so, _*no payautomat for bank / credit cards_ .. also with fast NFC )


----------



## Festin

ChrisZwolle said:


> NFC is great, but it needs to be fast.
> 
> I always pay with NFC nowadays, in the Netherlands the payment is instant, but I've noticed that for example in Germany or France it takes much longer to read the card. When traffic flow is concerned, every second counts.


+1 on that, I tried the Automatic pay booth in Austria down to Graz before a tunnel, and they had the NFC tag, which made it very fast to just stop, blipp and continue. For me, that was a positive surprise.



theAlien said:


> *Two basic conditions* were established during the study (research) the new payment system (for everybody and each vehicle): *driving costs only per kilometer * (so, _*no vignette_) ... and driving *without stopping* (no stopping traffic or drastic speed reduction when entering/exiting the highway ... so, _*no payautomat for bank / credit cards_ .. also with fast NFC )


Even though it is by payed kilometer, that is often more expensive than an vignette for 10 days for example, but sure NFC would not really be an option then.


----------



## lampsakos21

Eulanthe said:


> It's badly needed. Using numberplate recognition technology would get rid of the queues on the motorways, and as the majority of traffic crossing future-Schengen borders will have EU numberplates, it won't be a problem to enforce collection of the tolls. They can combine it with checks at non-EU border crossings to make sure that tolls are paid before leaving Croatia, too.
> 
> 
> 
> Tolls can easily be collected by requiring people to pay them online in advance or within 24 hours at any petrol station, as well as putting machines at rest areas/border crossings. Add in random enforcement after the last exit in the country (in cooperation with neighbouring countries) with high fines being handed out to anyone leaving without paying, and it won't be a problem to enforce the tolls.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course, Croatia being Croatia, I can see them taking a system that involves a lot of needless difficulty.




Wow ! they have adopted the same tolling system that Greece will adopt in the near future ( 202- )!


----------



## Attus

What about foreigners?


----------



## Tenjac

Attus said:


> What about foreigners?


Croatia has only 56000 km̂2 so it can easily be avoided. (Just kidding.)


----------



## theAlien

Attus said:


> What about foreigners?


All the same as locals ... you can choose between buying a transponder (using DSRC system) .. or registering (online) your vehicle number plate, including bank / credit card number for automatic incaso (using ALPR system).

The drivers of *motorcycles and personal vehicles* will get to choose whether they want to have a transponder in their vehicle, or if they want to be registered using the automatic license-plate readers (ALPR).
Other types of vehicles are required to use *only* the DSRC system.


----------



## RyukyuRhymer

*Much-delayed €420m bridge to connect Croatia back on track*
https://www.euronews.com/2019/07/30/much-delayed-420m-bridge-to-connect-croatia-back-on-track



> much-delayed infrastructure project to connect two parts of Croatia is back on track.
> 
> Work to build a 2.4-kilometre bridge connecting the country's south with the mainland stalled for more than a decade after the financial crisis hit in 2007.
> 
> But construction got underway again after the Croatian government awarded the contract to China Road and Bridge Corporation last year.
> 
> Now, concrete is being poured into the steel bases of the bridge by Chinese construction workers. They live in containers on the site and are working flat out to complete the project by the August 2022 deadline.
> 
> Peljesac Bridge, one of the EU's major infrastructure projects, is set to cost €420 million, with the European Commission committed to paying €357m.
> 
> While most of the construction money will go to China, Austrian and Greek firms have just been awarded contracts to build the 32 kilometres of connecting roads, tunnels and viaducts in the area around the bridge.


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ I don't remember, is it being built as a motorway or as a normal road?


----------



## pasadia

My memories tell me that it will be 2*2, no hardshoulder.


----------



## x-type

pasadia said:


> My memories tell me that it will be 2*2, no hardshoulder.


1+1 with shoulders


----------



## theAlien

x-type said:


> 1+1 with shoulders


^^
Peljesac bridge only ... the rest of the new 30 km connecting road is just 1x1 motorway


----------



## g.spinoza

theAlien said:


> ^^
> Peljesac bridge only ... the rest of the new 30 km connecting road is just 1x1 motorway


You mean 2x1... 1x1 makes 1, it's just one lane... :lol:


----------



## x-type

g.spinoza said:


> You mean 2x1... 1x1 makes 1, it's just one lane... :lol:


It's neverending discussion. 6 lanes motorway is often called 3x3. Imo it is absolutely stupid so I use + always.

Btw, is 4x4 reserved only for 16 wheeled vehicles?


----------



## ChrisZwolle

It depends if you take the _x_ as a 'times' or 'median symbol'. 2 times 3 lanes = 6 lanes. 2 median 3 lanes = 5 lanes. 

I think the '2x2' notation originated in France but its usage varies by country. It is considered more or less standard parlance in Dutch road planning and operations. But in Germany they usually use the 'American' term (six lanes instead of 2x3).

Then you also have the British usage of D4M (dual 4 lane motorway = 2x4 lanes = 8 lanes).


----------



## theAlien

g.spinoza said:


> You mean 2x1... 1x1 makes 1, it's just one lane... :lol:


Why not, in the Netherlands it is a common solution :banana:
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.549...4!1syxyeFSm5O2lCT3z2Ga5iNw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


----------



## sponge_bob

I live in an area with ADST effects, the locals generally adapt by travelling later and earlier to avoid the tourists during the summer. It is not, generally, worth building an empty road for 10 months of the year simply to deal with 2 months of traffic.

Building a proper near coastal motorway from Trieste to Tirana is a whole different argument of course and with a lot more players in the game. It won't pass through much of Istria though.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Sundays are just as bad as Saturdays at the border:


----------



## sponge_bob

That problem is 

1. Schengen
2. Slovenian roads. 

Not much Croatia can do if Slovenia won't jump.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The be sure, I was talking about the insufficient border crossing capacity, though I think a motorway should be built as well.


----------



## Attus

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Croatian border crossings have only marginally expanded over the past 15 years. Additionally, the Croatian / Istrian economy profits handsomely from the tourists, they could do something to reduce those 2+ hour waiting times.


Why should they? Tourists come so as well. They wouldn't have more tourists. So what you suggest is to spend public money in order to make foreign tourists' holidays more pleasant, without any financial reason. 
Would I be a Croatian politician, I would not expand the border crossings.


----------



## sponge_bob

My guess is the big problem is entering Schengen (northbound) and is nothing to do with Croatia and cannot be 'solved' by spending money on Croatian infrastructure. 

You can see the same pattern on the motorway NW of Zagreb, the big queue is entering Slovenia/Schengen.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Why should they? Well look at the maps posted. That is a frequent occurrence. That is reason enough, and they will be toll roads, financed by the users - including tourists.


----------



## sponge_bob

ChrisZwolle said:


> , and they will be toll roads, financed by the users - including tourists.


They might if the Slovenians wanted to build them, which they don't. 

There is a better explanation of the ASDT spikes in this thread from earlier this year. 

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=157288810&postcount=6748



> A9 motorway is pretty empty during winter (7-8k AADT), but without it during summer Istria would be a real bottleneck (16k ASDT on A9, plus 10-15k on parallel D75 road)...


A half profile can 'cope' in extremis with 2 months of around 14k AADT (with summer speed limits) after that you need full profile even though it is only busy for 2 months of the year. 

If Croatia had a longer peak season then the situation would be different, parts of Spain have all year round tourism, especially around Malaga and the Canaries, but Croatia still has a short season, 2 months really. Add in the mountain terrain and it really is expensive for Croatia to build full profile motorways just for 2 months of heavy traffic a year.


----------



## MichiH

sponge_bob said:


> If Croatia had a longer peak season then the situation would be different, parts of Spain have all year round tourism, especially around Malaga and the Canaries, but Croatia still has a short season, 2 months really. Add in the mountain terrain and it really is expensive for Croatia to build full profile motorways just for 2 months of heavy traffic a year.


Exactly. I crossed the border there last September (Mid September) and didn't have to wait.

In addition, Croatia will likely join Schengen one day (within 20 years or even earlier). Investing in border crosings now would be just waste of money.

Better motorway/expressway connections between Slovenia and Croatia is a different story though.


----------



## Attus

ChrisZwolle said:


> Why should they? Well look at the maps posted. That is a frequent occurrence. That is reason enough


No. There is no reason for financing shorter waiting tomes for foreign tourists using Croatian public money.


----------



## Verso

I always use the border crossing Požane/Sočerga in summer. Last Saturday I even had to use the crossing Slum/Rakitovec, which was also full of foreigners, but there was no waiting. I can't really recommend that road since it's pretty narrow. At one point in Podpeč it's just 2,2-m-wide between two houses (although almost everyone else drove via Smokvica; I don't know that road, but it's local).


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Attus said:


> No. There is no reason for financing shorter waiting tomes for foreign tourists using Croatian public money.


The government has a task to adequately provide infrastructure, which includes border crossings with sufficient capacity to handle traffic flow. If traffic flow is seasonal, so should the capacity of border crossings be. Increase staffing at peak times and build a couple more entry lanes. 

You make it sound as if some more border crossing capacity would single-handedly bankrupt the Croatian economy for the benefit of those scary 'foreign tourists'. hno:


----------



## MichiH

No Chris, sorry. It would be waste of money now.

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/croatia-has-met-all-technical-conditions-to-join-schengen/ (29th July 2019)


> The European Commission may soon officially announce that Croatia has met all technical criteria for accession to the Schengen Area. According to the Croatian online newspaper vecernji.hr, diplomatic sources have confirmed that the EU Commission will most likely issue an official statement in the second half of *September, giving the green light to Croatia to join the Schengen area*.


https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/croatia-hopeful-it-will-join-schengen-area-by-2020/ (17th October 2018)


> The Republic of *Croatia hopes to join the border-free Schengen Area by 2020*, due to expectations to meet the technical criteria by the end of this year.


----------



## MichiH

In additiion, it would be the wrong sign to EU commission if Croatia would invest into border crossings now.

And the "poor" tourists who have to wait are from these EU countries who just had to allow Croatia* joining Schengen....

*Together with Romania and Bulgaria.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The expected 'near future Schengen accession' is a probably reason why the border crossing wasn't expanded in the first place. That, and perhaps the idea that a motorway would be constructed soon between Koper and the border.

As you can see on satellite images the border crossings (there are two) in western Istria have not been expanded much at all since the earliest image of 2003, due to the expectation that they would soon become superfluous. However Schengen accession hasn't come into fruition so far, and we see the result: massive traffic jams.


----------



## keber

MichiH said:


> Better motorway/expressway connections between Slovenia and Croatia is a different story though.


Plans from early 2000s included the same bordercrossing as it is built now. If police on both sides would work more effectively I'm sure there would be much less traffic problems. Same is true for all large bordercrossings. Although it is not much better on Austrian side of Karawankentunnel or at Bad Reichenhall (A/D) which are both the shame of current Schengen rules.

Current plan for new H5 to SLO-CRO border weighs about 300 million euro. There is a lot of opposition with locals as it goes through Koper suburbs (which is also only sensible solution). Without their agreement there will be no spatial plan, required for new road. 

Currently new H8 and H9 have a priority right now (in phase I and II both expressways will cost at least 1,3 billion euro) as first tenders are already out. Construction of further new expressways or motorways toward Croatian border will have to wait at least another 5 years. New motorway from Postojna to Jelšane/Rupa could also cost close to one billion. Much needed widenings of motorways around Ljubljana will also cost enormous amounts of money. 
Most Croats think that Slovenes don't want to build new roads to Croatia just because of political reasons. Yet traffic priorities and money problems are mostly to blame.


----------



## Verso

Even if there were a motorway between Koper and Dragonja, I would still drive via Buzet because of much shorter waiting times at the border.


----------



## alserrod

ChrisZwolle said:


> Traffic congestion at the Slovenia-Croatia border at Istria is pretty bad on these summer Saturdays, with two hours of waiting or more. This border crossing is pretty small.



I have being there and avoided to cross border on weekends. I always glanced traffic on HAK app... but you had to be careful. Sometimes they pointed 30 minutes delay and they were only 5... but anyway, when you see Zagreb-Belgrade, 2h30m delay in border... I guess you may think if you hadn't other things to do that day.




sponge_bob said:


> That problem is
> 
> 1. Schengen
> 2. Slovenian roads.
> 
> Not much Croatia can do if Slovenia won't jump.



3. How many lanes did each country opened in borders to cross them? (opened, not existing!!!)


----------



## alserrod

ChrisZwolle said:


> As you can see on satellite images the border crossings (there are two) in western Istria have not been expanded much at all since the earliest image of 2003, due to the expectation that they would soon become superfluous. However Schengen accession hasn't come into fruition so far, and we see the result: massive traffic jams.



I remember fare was almost similar after crossing the bridge. It didn't matter destination. Fare wasn't so different.
Would a tourist wonder if paying more?. I guess they will pay for a reasonable price if it is a motorway... and it is not. Yeah, they have somewhere under 2x2 works... but they should hurry-up

Anyway, greater congestions on Istria Y are here

https://www.google.com/maps/place/2...1798ff631b49f98!8m2!3d43.5081323!4d16.4401935



WHY ON HELL, Istria Y is connected to Rupa-Rijeka-Zagreb motorway with a traffic light?.

Greatest congestions are there, and solution is quite easy at all


----------



## satanism

MichiH said:


> No Chris, sorry. It would be waste of money now.
> 
> https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/croatia-has-met-all-technical-conditions-to-join-schengen/ (29th July 2019)
> 
> https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/croatia-hopeful-it-will-join-schengen-area-by-2020/ (17th October 2018)


That actually means absolutely nothing. Bulgaria and Romania are in this situation for many years now and are not joining Schengen anytime soon, for political reasons. And also for political reasons Croatia will not join before Bulgaria and Romania do.Would be a scandal otherwise.
By the way, Bulgaria, Romania and Greece have been expanding crossing capacity continuously despite the anticipated Schengen enalrgment.


----------



## zvonko

alserrod said:


> WHY ON HELL, Istria Y is connected to Rupa-Rijeka-Zagreb motorway with a traffic light?.
> Greatest congestions are there, and solution is quite easy at all





zvonko December 11th said:


>


1A,1B,1C is completed.


----------



## Ingenioren

alserrod said:


> WHY ON HELL, Istria Y is connected to Rupa-Rijeka-Zagreb motorway with a traffic light?.


I only once in my life seen a manually operated traffic light


----------



## x-type

alserrod said:


> I remember fare was almost similar after crossing the bridge. It didn't matter destination. Fare wasn't so different.
> Would a tourist wonder if paying more?. I guess they will pay for a reasonable price if it is a motorway... and it is not. Yeah, they have somewhere under 2x2 works... but they should hurry-up
> 
> Anyway, greater congestions on Istria Y are here
> 
> https://www.google.com/maps/place/2...1798ff631b49f98!8m2!3d43.5081323!4d16.4401935WHY ON HELL, Istria Y is connected to Rupa-Rijeka-Zagreb motorway with a traffic light?.
> 
> Greatest congestions are there, and solution is quite easy at all


Because it was built in 1981. Acually, I think that traffic light came in 1988 when Rijeka bypass was built and connected onto B8. But still traffic amounts were low back in that time. I personally never caught the traffic jam there.



satanism said:


> That actually means absolutely nothing. Bulgaria and Romania are in this situation for many years now and are not joining Schengen anytime soon, for political reasons. And also for political reasons Croatia will not join before Bulgaria and Romania do.Would be a scandal otherwise.
> By the way, Bulgaria, Romania and Greece have been expanding crossing capacity continuously despite the anticipated Schengen enalrgment.


It should have been scandal back in 2008 when RO and BG entered the EU before HR. So it wasn't.


----------



## rudiwien

x-type said:


> It should have been scandal back in 2008 when RO and BG entered the EU before HR. So it wasn't.



This is really off-topic, but Romania and Bulgaria both applied for EU membership in 1995, and got admitted in January 2007 (not 2008).

Croatia applied in 2003, and got admitted in 2013. So if you simply count the time span as indicator, there is no reason for a scandal anyhow.

And while economical indicators are better than for the above mentioned countries, there were several other reasons that delayed an earlier admission, like border disputes. But, really, too much off-topic.


Regarding the more on-topic Schengen admission, I too would be rather surprised if Croatia is admitted before Romania and Bulgaria.
I would not mind it necessarily, I really dislike the border controls - but I could also imagine that due to the migrant crisis, several countries (at least Austria) would like to veto against it, if just for populist reasons.


----------



## x-type

rudiwien said:


> bla bla.


The best posts ever start with "This is offtopic" and blaiming anybody who continues offtopicing. Except the creator of the post, who will use opportunity to say hiy off topic opinion.:cheers:


----------



## satanism

Actually the two situations have nothing in common. Even if we leave aside the argument that the geopolitical orientation of RO/BG had to be locked ASAP, while no risk was ever present for HR. 
Besides people around here are quite pissed off by the constant "you're ready but you're not" theater so believe me, it will be a scandal and everyone with common sense know it. So ready or not, you're very very likely waiting for us....


----------



## rudiwien

x-type said:


> rudiwien said:
> 
> 
> 
> bla bla.
> 
> 
> 
> The best posts ever start with "This is offtopic" and blaiming anybody who continues offtopicing. Except the creator of the post, who will use opportunity to say hiy off topic opinion.:cheers:
Click to expand...


I don't know what insulted you, and what made you post in a disrespectful way. Maybe you can clarify..
My comment that it is off-topic also applied to my post, and didn't imply that yours isn't worth anything.

But maybe you simply didn't like being corrected, as your facts were wrong.

In any case, it seems that you are not interested in a proper discussion of the topic anyhow, as you reverted to a polemic and insulting style.


----------



## sponge_bob

I'd be amazed if Croatia got into Schengen, before Romania and Bulgaria, either. 

Having said that it must also be said that no country entered the EU with as good an existing motorway network as Croatia. No country ever in all the history of the EU. None.  

But that has nothing to do with Schengen.


----------



## rudiwien

sponge_bob said:


> Having said that it must also be said that no country entered the EU with as good an existing motorway network as Croatia. No country ever in all the history of the EU. None.



Do you have data to prove that? 

(yeah, I know, it's anyhow difficult to compare the quality of motorway networks, especially how to normalise the absolute values, but still, if you have some data on how big the various networks where when joining the EU, would be fun to see!)


----------



## sponge_bob

rudiwien said:


> Do you have data to prove that?  if you have some data on how big the various networks where when joining the EU, would be fun to see!)


I don't. Austria would be the only other country that could be considered close but Austria has a much bigger population than Croatia does. 

The vast Iberian network mainly post dates EU membership and the EU was not a big source for road building funds until the 1990s because farmers took (by far) the most of the money that Brussels gave out from the 1960s to the 1980s. It was only in the 1990s that the EU funded Olive Oil lakes and Butter mountains were demolished as part of the WTO/GATT 'Uruguay Round' and funds were diverted to better uses than overproduction of agricultural product. 

The countries that built their motorway networks heavily on EU funds were Spain Portugal Greece and now Poland.


----------



## Verso

sponge_bob said:


> I'd be amazed if Croatia got into Schengen, before Romania and Bulgaria, either.
> 
> Having said that it must also be said that no country entered the EU with as good an existing motorway network as Croatia. No country ever in all the history of the EU. None.
> 
> But that has nothing to do with Schengen.


Cyprus?


----------



## SRC_100

Sweden and/or Denmark?


----------



## sponge_bob

SRC_100 said:


> Sweden and/or Denmark?


Sweden does not have a huge motorway network even now...but they do have a lot of 2+2 retrofits of older 1+1+HS country roads.. and Denmark built most of its network AFTER they joined the EU over 40 years ago along with all of those massive bridges of theirs to connect motorways to.

I think Sweden had at most 1500km of Motorway when they joined the EU and have built c.500km since then.

Croatia also had around 1500km when they joined the EU.


----------



## rudiwien

Sponge, what is the source behind your 1500km claim?

When checking e.g. https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cestovni_promet_u_Hrvatskoj, it states that in 2015, there were 1,325 km of motorways.
So, does your number include other roads?


----------



## sponge_bob

Maybe I got a wrong total elswhere, even 1300km for a population the size of Croatias is a record sized network on EU accession date though. 1300km is more than all of Ireland, north and south, with well over 6m people.


----------



## theAlien

*HAC (Croatian Motorways) Could Annul Tender Worth 380 Million Kuna*











> HAC (Croatian motorways) are likely to cancel a tender worth a massive 380 million kuna for the construction of the Beli Manastir - Drava bridge section on the A5 Beli Manastir - Osijek - Svilaj motorway. The reason for this decision was the withdrawal of Integral inženjering (engineering) from Laktaši (Bosnia and Herzegovina).
> The bidding for the construction of this subdivision on the Croatian part of 5c corridor received three bids. Of these, only Integral from Bosnia and Herzegovina offered a price which was within the estimated value of the works.


https://www.total-croatia-news.com/business/38041-hac


----------



## MichiH

Which section? The red 18km section north of Osijek? I thought that works were started one year ago?


----------



## theAlien

Yes, the 18 km red section ... the construction of this section goes in two phases (tenders) ... first, objects only (bridges, viaducts, overpasses .. 7 in total), and you are right, this construction began about a year ago.
The second phase is the construction of a "clean" highway route (without objects) ... and this is about that tender.

_Why simple when it can complicated_ .. slogan of HAC (Croatian motorways) :nuts:


----------



## MichiH

theAlien said:


> _Why simple when it can complicated_ .. slogan of HAC (Croatian motorways) :nuts:


No, just two tenders for a 18km section is quite simple! Germans would split it into 3 sections. Construction works on section 2 would start once section 1 is in service. And every bridge would have it's own tender procedure. And the final award for road markings would be challenged.... :lol:


----------



## italystf

sponge_bob said:


> Maybe I got a wrong total elswhere, even 1300km for a population the size of Croatias is a record sized network on EU accession date though. 1300km is more than all of Ireland, north and south, with well over 6m people.


(West) Germany had around 2,000-3,000 km of motorways when it was one of the founder members of ECSC in 1951. I think that also the UK in 1973 and Austria in 1995 had pretty developed networks.


----------



## MichiH

MichiH said:


> Brza cesta do Zlatar Bistrice još nije otvorena za promet; The fast road to Zlatar Bistrica is not yet open for traffic (June 18)
> 
> It is reported that "some brave drivers" drove the new section illegally and that police has fined them. Final works are still executed and after the technical inspection, the road will be opened. There is not yet an official opening date.
> 
> The article was published two weeks ago but it seems that the section is still not yet in service.


Any news on D14 Bedekovcina – Zlatar Bistrica opening?


----------



## zezi

MichiH said:


> Any news on D14 Bedekovcina – Zlatar Bistrica opening?


Unfortunately no news. And no info what is the problem. It seems road is finished, probably some problems (delays) with documents


----------



## MichiH

How is D2 officially routed through Virovitica?
Is OSM right that it's signed concurrent to D5 bypass from the interchange west of the town to the soutern entrance and then through the south of the town? Google Maps (w/o numbering though), Here Maps and Bing Maps still indicate it directly through the town. GSV is outdated, from 2011.
I'm not interested in how one should drive but in the official dedication


----------



## zezi

MichiH said:


> Any news on D14 Bedekovcina – Zlatar Bistrica opening?


Latest unofficial news: in the midle of October wil be opened. But yet to be confirmed


----------



## Luki_SL

Construction of the Pelješac Bridge. Shot taken from D8 :


----------



## Luki_SL

The Pelješac Bridge:



>


source: https://crbc-croatia.com/en/2019/09...duceg-peljeskog-mosta-vidljivi-i-iz-aviona-2/


----------



## MichiH

zezi said:


> Latest unofficial news: in the midle of October wil be opened. But yet to be confirmed


I found a news article from October 1 that indicates that the D14 opening is expected "soon". They do not yet know the exact date but certainly in October.


> Dali su naslutiti da bi to svakako bilo u mjesecu listopadu.


Is there any update I could just not find?




MichiH said:


> How is D2 officially routed through Virovitica?
> Is OSM right that it's signed concurrent to D5 bypass from the interchange west of the town to the soutern entrance and then through the south of the town? Google Maps (w/o numbering though), Here Maps and Bing Maps still indicate it directly through the town. GSV is outdated, from 2011.
> I'm not interested in how one should drive but in the official dedication


I've been on-site. The km posts do clearly confirm the route through the south of Virovitica as it is indicated on OSM.


----------



## MichiH

medi84 said:


> It will be a 2x2 expressway. Signed contract covers only Phase I on Croatian side (marked in green), which is the bridge without access road. Phase II (marked in red) should follow, but information about this phase are very scarce. According to forum members from Croatia, phases beyond Phase II are not going to be implemented in near future. This is how it should look after Phases I, II, and III are finished: VIDEO


There was an official groundbreaking ceremony on October 11, see press release.















It seems that the grade-separated expressway will start at the D5 junction just west of the toll station and the "A3 exit ramp" will remain 2-laned. The map indicates, that the future D5 expressway towards Hungary won't have an interchange with A3. That means, the "gap" should not be an issue.

It's only reported that the construction of the bridge should take 30 months (estimated completion spring 2022) but I couldn't find any info where the road should end. Remember what _medi84_ wrote: "According to forum members from Croatia, phases beyond Phase II are not going to be implemented in near future." and "According to forum members from Croatia, phases beyond Phase II are not going to be implemented in near future." (blue on the map). I guess that the contract for Phase II should be signed "soon" so that it will be complated when the bridge will be completed -likely spring 2022 (or later).


----------



## stickedy

Widening the exit lane to 2x2 is Phase V.

It seems that they will first build Phase II to connect the bridge to D5. After that or maybe along with that project they will built Phase III to bypass Novi Varos and make an in-grade junction at the current exit ramp of A3.

Most likely when traffic increases they will expand the exit ramp of A3 (Phase V) together with getting rid of that in-grade-junction and the toll station there. Then a new connection to D5 is necessary to avoid new traffic through Novi Varos (Phase IV).

I don't think that we will see the expressway north (Phase VI) before 2030 at all.

Edit: In my opinion they should it make right (2x2 lanes from A3 to the bridge without any in-grade-junctions) from the beginning. Expanding here and upgrading there after the initial building just causes additional traffic jams and costs. But having money now is most likely the issue...


----------



## MichiH

stickedy said:


> together with getting rid of that in-grade-junction and the toll station there.


That's phase IV (Cyan). Looks like an overpass for today's D5.


----------



## theAlien

stickedy said:


> Edit: In my opinion they should it make right (2x2 lanes from A3 to the bridge without any in-grade-junctions) from the beginning. Expanding here and upgrading there after the initial building just causes additional traffic jams and costs. But having money now is most likely the issue...


^^
You are right .. construction 2x2 lanes from A3 to the bridge without Novi Varos intersection would be optimal and cheapest ... the reason is spending your own money for the whole project on the croatian side, including the cost of building a half bridge, border crossing and the rest of the fast road to the junction with A3 ... contrary to the award of the EU grant to BiH of  €6.8 million  for bridge construction.

Croatia has pledged to finance the construction of the bridge and Phase 2 with its own funds .. but the rest will await EU funding, probably.
That's why building the Novi Varos intersection is essential in order for the bridge to be operational.


----------



## Namibija

Gradiška interstate bridge without Phase II will be useless.

Problem is, that Phase II will be much more complex and more expensive than Phase I (interstate project), because it's going to be consisted out of two bridges, first one, bridge Strug will be shorter, while second one bridge Nova Sava will be longer than Gradiška interstate bridge itself and there is interchange Novi Varoš at the end of Phase II as well.

Phase III is not necessary, but definitely it's better solution for faster and safer transit, and for the locals as well (especially for people of Novi Varoš).

I believe that Croatia is going to build other two phases, only if they receive fair amount of money through grants or some favorable loans or in a scenario of some political bargain, while in any other case, Croatian government can draw public outrage if they use public money to finish this project, because Croatia doesn't have some special interest for this project.

I'm really sorry because of the situation, but that's how it is.


----------



## MichiH

^^ Why does Croatia not get EU funding for this project? Poland, Romania, Bulgaria,... all get a lot of money. Did Croatia forget asking for money?


----------



## keber

They spent most available EU money for Pelješac bridge.


----------



## stickedy

MichiH said:


> That's phase IV (Cyan). Looks like an overpass for today's D5.


Yes, of course, my fault. Overpass or underpass (Overpass is more likely because it will not harm traffic there that much) is gonna be built together with the new interchange there - Phase IV


----------



## kokomo

How is Bosnia reacting to the aforementioned bridge that will make crossing through their Neum territory redundant?


----------



## x-type

Neum will remain accessable as it is. Even more due to less crowded border crossings. So the bridge can only encourage Herzegovinian tourism. Poor date-shelves .


----------



## kokomo

And, travel times from Split to Dubrovnik, for example, will be significantly diminished?


----------



## g.spinoza

How deep are waters in the Peljesac bridge area?


----------



## theAlien

Max. depth is 27m.


----------



## keber

kokomo said:


> And, travel times from Split to Dubrovnik, for example, will be significantly diminished?


About 10 minutes in light traffic, more if there is heavy traffic on both borders.


----------



## kokomo

Ah, okay. So you wouldn't save that much transit time but yes from a bureaucratic perspective (ie border crossing and those unexpected waits)


----------



## stickedy

In summer times it can easily be 2 hours you have to spend on both border crossings. On the other hand you can refill and eat cheap in Neum...

But the serious issues are transporting goods through Neum since you are leaving Croatia and EU.


----------



## zezi

MichiH said:


> Any news on D14 Bedekovcina – Zlatar Bistrica opening?


Today 25th October 2019 at 16:30 will be opening ceremony od expressway Bedekovčina - Zlatar Bistrica

News in croatian https://mmpi.gov.hr/aktualno/najave/ministar-oleg-butkovic-na-svecanosti-pustanja-u-promet-novoizgradjene-dionice-zlatar-bistrica-andrasevec/21888


----------



## Tenjac

stickedy said:


> In summer times it can easily be 2 hours you have to spend on both border crossings. On the other hand you can refill and eat cheap in Neum...
> 
> But the serious issues are transporting goods through Neum since you are leaving Croatia and EU.


Rent-a-car companies from Dubrovnik will lose some of their profit since they will not be able to charge additional fees for border crossing by rented cars.


----------



## satanism

Neum corridor is usually exempt of such charges for rentals.


----------



## x-type

And most tourists renting cars in Dubrovnik and going out of city get idea to visit everything between Venice (yes, weird) and Montenegro.


----------



## italystf

Some Canadian friends of me rented a car in Dubrovnik, drove all around the Dalmantian coast and dropped it in Trieste. They weren't allowed to take it deeper inside Italy (for example towards Udine or Venice). Or maybe they were, but they had to return it in Trieste eventually.


----------



## keber

Pelješac bridge update:


theAlien said:


> Svjeze danasnje fotke .. 雨过天晴♬ nice day！


----------



## Puležan

A5 (BIH-HR) :cheers:



theAlien said:


> Završeni su radovi na asfaltiranju nizvodnog mosta


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## KHS

*Pelješac bridge U/C*



theAlien said:


> Noviji video...
> https://youtu.be/_GetppJJqQE







:cheers:


----------



## ChrisZwolle

How deep is the water there?


----------



## zvonko

^^ 04_DISPOZICIJA MOSTA.pdf


----------



## theAlien

ChrisZwolle said:


> How deep is the water there?


Just one page behind 


g.spinoza said:


> How deep are waters in the Peljesac bridge area?





theAlien said:


> Max. depth is 27m.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

zvonko said:


> ^^ 04_DISPOZICIJA MOSTA.pdf


Thanks.

The dimensions of that design are different from those listed on English Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelješac_Bridge

(main span, pylon height).


----------



## zvonko

Wikipedia is outdated hno:


> It would be *21 metres* (69 ft) wide, enough to accommodate *4 lanes of traffic*.


06_KARAKT_POPR_kose zatege.pdf

Official tender


----------



## Verso

It's been over a year since completion of the Slovenian A4 to Croatia; are there any news about widening the A2 by Krapina?


----------



## Puležan

Verso said:


> It's been over a year since completion of the Slovenian A4 to Croatia; are there any news about widening the A2 by Krapina?


No news so far hno:


----------



## kostas97

Any news about the A5 section from Osijek to Beli Manastir (and the Hungarian border) that includes the Drava bridge??


----------



## theAlien

^^
The realization of this route takes place in two parts.
_First part_: Work in progress, since 2018 (bridges, overpasses ect.)
_The second part_: Pure highway construction (without the aforementioned objects) .. This project has been funded through the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development.
Work is expected to begin in the spring, and completion of the works by the Beli Manastir in 2022.

At the same time, it is working on designing a section of the last five kilometers, from the Beli Manastir exit to the state border with Hungary.
The building permit is expected to be issued by the end of next year and then works will begin, so the entire section of Corridor 5C would be completed by the end of 2023.

Some pictures of work in progress:


----------



## grobo

Peljesac Bridge































































More photo at:








Izgradnja Pelješkog mosta


...




www.jutarnji.hr


----------



## grobo

Sajdop said:


> 18.5.2020.


----------



## xsz

Beautiful bridge indeed! 
Where can I find any details about motorway(s) that will go from current A1, through the bridge, up to Dubrovnik?


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## MichiH

^^ there won't be any motorway. Nothing 2x2!


----------



## theAlien

xsz said:


> Beautiful bridge indeed!
> Where can I find any details about motorway(s) that will go from current A1, through the bridge, up to Dubrovnik?


This is the current section under construction (Pelješac bridge and 38km expressway 1x1):






... but, a preliminary design for connecting this part with the A1 from the Metković junction to Dubrovnik is underway:


















New step towards connecting Dubrovnik to the rest of Croatia - The Dubrovnik Times


The A1 motorway that will, when completed, link the very south of Croatia to the rest of the country has taken another step forward to being completed. The path of the motorway, which starts in Zagreb, stopped in the town of Ploce, around a 1.5-hour drive from Dubrovnik and has been stuck in...




www.thedubrovniktimes.com


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ If I understand correctly from the video, the bridge itself will be 2+2 while the roads to it will be 1+1?


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## theAlien

^^
No ... the bridge will be_ one_ *traffic lane* + _one_ *emergency lane* (a shoulder) .. both sides.

... so


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## roaddor

The width of the paved section is 8m in direction. Isn't it possible to make two driving lanes 3.50m each? Then it remains 0.5m for the sideways which is enough. I guess the speed limit on the bridge will not be more than 80km/h.


----------



## roaddor

theAlien said:


> This is the current section under construction (Pelješac bridge and 38km expressway 1x1):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... but, a preliminary design for connecting this part with the A1 from the Metković junction to Dubrovnik is underway:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New step towards connecting Dubrovnik to the rest of Croatia - The Dubrovnik Times
> 
> 
> The A1 motorway that will, when completed, link the very south of Croatia to the rest of the country has taken another step forward to being completed. The path of the motorway, which starts in Zagreb, stopped in the town of Ploce, around a 1.5-hour drive from Dubrovnik and has been stuck in...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedubrovniktimes.com


You mean the violet sections will cost approximately 860 mln. euros? Damn expensive, but given the terrain it is not surprising. 13.6 million euros per kilometer.


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## Luki_SL

^^There are many tunnels. I think it`s a real cost per kilometer.


----------



## sponge_bob

roaddor said:


> The width of the paved section is 8m in direction. Isn't it possible to make two driving lanes 3.50m each? Then it remains 0.5m for the sideways which is enough. I guess the speed limit on the bridge will not be more than 80km/h.


It is,, a lick of paint on the bridge deck is all you need to make it an expressway But are the roads either side 2+2???

There is a risk of the wind catching high sided vehicles though, and causing an accident. It might have to be limited to 60kph if it ever becomes a 2+2 and that bridge might be a 1+1 in winter when traffic is low and the wind is strongest.


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## keber

This is future proof width and 2+2 could be possible on the bridge some day without larger works, but for now access roads are only 1+1 for the foreseeable future. Also traffic numbers don't justifiy 2+2.


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## sponge_bob

Are the colours on this map red 2+2 and black 1+1 ??

https://www.thedubrovniktimes.com/media/k2/items/cache/88416b976547b12e8749a07908b21457_L.jpg


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## keber

Yes, but this map is ancient.


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## x-type

keber said:


> Yes, but this map is ancient.





keber said:


> Yes, but this map is ancient.


Only black. Red parts are considered 2+2.


----------



## threo2k

So there is still a chance we could see a full complete A1 highway to Dubrovnik in the future?


----------



## Puležan

threo2k said:


> So there is still a change we could see a full complete A1 highway to Dubrovnik in the future?


Most probably not. There's a full profile A1 motorway up to Ploče interchange, where it branches off towards BIH (A10 motorway, 8,8 km long) and to port of Ploče (D425 expressway, 9,87 km long), where it connects to D8 Adriatic coastal highway (Jadranska magistrala). So, when the bridge is finished, it will be just a new route of the Adriatic coastal highway (not motorway) - Jadranska magistrala (D8 road). If the connecting roads ever become 2x2 and get expressway status, the bridge itself definitely won't get motorway status, because it's too narrow.

On the other hand, a full profile motorway is planned to go through southeast BIH towards Dubrovnik and Montenegro, but it's on the BIH side and yet, nothing is for sure. On Croatian side, because of the rough terrain and proximity of the BIH borderline, there's no much space for a full profile motorway.

So, for now, we'll have a 1+1 expressway on the Pelješac peninsula (with the bridge itself), and after that maybe the 1+1 expressway continuation towards Dubrovnik (no definitive plans yet). Also, some kind of expressway is planned to connect Dubrovnik city and Dubrovnik airport.


----------



## Eulanthe

Puležan said:


> Also, some kind of expressway is planned to connect Dubrovnik city and Dubrovnik airport.


IMO, they should just bite the bullet and build a toll motorway between the Montenegrin border and the Tudjman bridge on the D8. Building through Konavle will be easy, and they could have intermediate junctions at the airport, on D223 (for BiH) and for the city itself, before ending on the Lozica side of the bridge. They could easily charge a high toll for such transit during summer months - people would pay 30-50kn just to avoid the mess of the D8 through Dubrovnik in summer.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

roaddor said:


> The width of the paved section is 8m in direction. Isn't it possible to make two driving lanes 3.50m each? Then it remains 0.5m for the sideways which is enough. I guess the speed limit on the bridge will not be more than 80km/h.


Normally you'd say that two narrower lanes (for example 3.25 m) wouldn't be an issue. The problem with such a large bridge are the crosswinds. Even with wind screens the wind can be unpredictable and traffic needs some space to correct. 

It makes you wonder why they didn't make the bridge slightly wider to allow for two full lanes and narrow inside and outside shoulders. You need only a few meters more. 

Will the new road have intermittent passing lanes?


----------



## sponge_bob

ChrisZwolle said:


> Normally you'd say that two narrower lanes (for example 3.25 m) wouldn't be an issue. The problem with such a large bridge are the crosswinds.


What I said, you could run 2 x 3.25m lanes in summer when the traffic is heaviest and the wind is [email protected] for safety reasons. In spring winter autumn you would be back to 1 lane though. I don't know what the profiles of any tunnels on this road are, either side of the bridge, and whether they could cope with 2 lane running.. 3.25m lanes are probably not wide enough for 80kph running. 

Traffic on the Croatian coast in summer, or *ASDT,* is enormous compared with the other 10 months of the year. You only need 2+2 for 10 weeks a year. It could be a Croatian take on a British 'smart' motorway.


----------



## Eulanthe

sponge_bob said:


> Traffic on the Croatian coast in summer, or *ASDT,* is enormous compared with the other 10 months of the year. You only need 2+2 for 10 weeks a year. It could be a Croatian take on a British 'smart' motorway.


I once went from Zagreb to south of Split on a Saturday in May. Traffic was pretty heavy between Lucko and Bosiljevo-2, but after that, the traffic just completely died. I'm always surprised that they don't lower the toll rates significantly between October-May in order to encourage the use of the motorway. 

Compare and contrast to a summer Saturday, where I spent most of the way from Macelj listening to HAK tell me how the queue in front of the Sveti Rok tunnel was increasing. It started with a 15km jam, and by the time I left the motorway, it was reaching for nearly 50km in front of the tunnel.


----------



## Puležan

Eulanthe said:


> I once went from Zagreb to south of Split on a Saturday in May. Traffic was pretty heavy between Lucko and Bosiljevo-2, but after that, the traffic just completely died. I'm always surprised that they don't lower the toll rates significantly between October-May in order to encourage the use of the motorway.
> 
> Compare and contrast to a summer Saturday, where I spent most of the way from Macelj listening to HAK tell me how the queue in front of the Sveti Rok tunnel was increasing. It started with a 15km jam, and by the time I left the motorway, it was reaching for nearly 50km in front of the tunnel.


That's the problem with our road infrastructure in the coast and on busy routes - in some cases AADT isn't that high to justify a motorway or even an ordinary dual carriageway, but during tourist season the ASDT can be 2 or 3 times higher (A9, D8 between Rijeka and Crikvenica, D8 from Trogir/Split airport to Split, D8 in Omiš and Dubrovnik area, many small cities and towns: Umag, Poreč, Rovinj, Vodice, Primošten...). But the infrastructure must be built to accomodate all that traffic and to ensure safe and comfortable journey to people going to their destinations...


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## roaddor

ChrisZwolle said:


> Normally you'd say that two narrower lanes (for example 3.25 m) wouldn't be an issue. The problem with such a large bridge are the crosswinds. Even with wind screens the wind can be unpredictable and traffic needs some space to correct.
> 
> It makes you wonder why they didn't make the bridge slightly wider to allow for two full lanes and narrow inside and outside shoulders. You need only a few meters more.
> 
> Will the new road have intermittent passing lanes?


I couldn't agree more with you regarding the crosswinds. This is typical by the way for most European coastal regions. I just observed there was enough space for two driving lanes. Of course it is not a problem at all to keep just one driving lane. The Croats know best what they are doing. The biggest issue is related to the tunnels on the peninsula, not the bridge or the road itself. Now there will be one normal tube and the adjacent one (for emergency) is too small. So a new tube is needed if the road is upgraded in the future.
It is interesting if the European Commission will provide financial resources for the construction of the sections from the end of A1 to the Peljesac bridge and from Doli to Dubrovnik. The solidarity dictates that it should do so.


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## stickedy

The bridge itself is already partly funded by EU. The question is always how the projects qualify for funding.

Problem is, that the coastal motorway / expressway not a TEN corridor. That makes funding a bit complicated.


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## roaddor

On the contrary. Not only is this road (the Adriatic-Ionian motorway) part of the core network but it is also part of the Mediterranean TENT corridor.


----------



## g.spinoza

^^ I think it's an old version.

On the Italian ministry's website there is this one:





Corridoi europei TEN-T | mit







www.mit.gov.it





The Adriatic corridor is not there anymore.


----------



## sponge_bob

g.spinoza said:


> ^^ I think it's an old version.


Not sure about that. The one on the EU website is the up to date version...not the Italian one.


----------



## g.spinoza

sponge_bob said:


> Not sure about that. The one on the EU website is the up to date version...not the Italian one.


The map on the EU website is the same as the one on the Italian website: there is no Adriatic corridor:








Mobility and transport


EC Transport Home page




ec.europa.eu


----------



## roaddor

It is the same map but with less detail. Moreover, it is not compulsory for a road to be part of these 9 TENT corridors in order to get EU funds.


----------



## g.spinoza

roaddor said:


> It is the same map but with less detail. Moreover, it is not compulsory for a road to be part of these 9 TENT corridors in order to get EU funds.


It's _*not *_the same map.

In the same EU website, the interactive map viewer lets you see all the corridors in detail, and the Adriatic Balkan corridor is not there:














TENtec Interactive Map Viewer


TENtec Interactive Map Viewer




ec.europa.eu


----------



## roaddor

You cannot see them because these are extensions, including the Adriatic motorway in Croatia. The rest are not shown because the other countries are still not part of EU. By the way A1 in Croatia is full of Italians in summer and is constituent part along the Adriatic coast of a motorway from Trieste to Patras or even Kalamata in Greece, namely the Adriatic-Ionian motorway.


----------



## stickedy

But the "Adriatic-Ionian motorway" is not an EU project or road corridor! It is also not an extension of any TEN corridor, see Trans-European Transport Network - Wikipedia.

This is why it is more difficult to get EU funds for roads in that corridor. And this is also why BiH gets relatively easy bank loans from EIB or EBRD for building their A1 in Pan-European corridor V (even if not part of TEN) but not for other projects.

But interestingly, road connection from Dubrovnik to border MNE is mentioned in TEN regulation from EU: L_2013348EN.01012901.xml


----------



## g.spinoza

roaddor said:


> You cannot see them because these are extensions, including the Adriatic motorway in Croatia. The rest are not shown because the other countries are still not part of EU. By the way A1 in Croatia is full of Italians in summer and is constituent part along the Adriatic coast of a motorway from Trieste to Patras or even Kalamata in Greece, namely the Adriatic-Ionian motorway.


I don't want to insist, but the balkan Adriatic corridor is not mentioned in the EU page about TEN-T, not even as an extension:









Press corner


Highlights, press releases and speeches




ec.europa.eu


----------



## roaddor

The map above is created by EU. This is what the corridors will look like if the other countries from the Balkans are part of the union. Since the so called Western Balkans are not members of EU, they are treated separately and the corresponding corridors are not mapped. This is the main reason but that doesn't mean the corridors do not exist. 
The Adriatic-Ionian motorway is not on the EU agenda for the time being but it is an EU concern. Otherwise money would not be provided for the Peljesac bridge at all as it could be only a Croatian internal matter. 
Although not officially stated and even not depicted on the picture above, Sofia-Nis is in reality part of the Orient/East Med. corridor because this is the standard way of traveling from Istanbul towards Central and Western Europe.


----------



## Le Clerk

theAlien said:


> ^^
> No ... the bridge will be_ one_ *traffic lane* + _one_ *emergency lane* (a shoulder) .. both sides.
> 
> ... so


OMG?! But why ?! This bridge is supposed to bypass HR and BIH customs (4 of them for one trip) if I understand correctly, on the way to Dubrovnik. So then why only 1x1 when the traffic can be really mad in the summer there? Plus the fact that the bridge is made for the next 50 years and should take into account a significant increase in traffic.


----------



## MichiH

Minimum, they finally build anything. Bypassing BIH is like .... crossing Carpathians for other countries


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## Le Clerk

Yeah, but then it should be a motorway bridge IMHO.


----------



## sponge_bob

They have long had a plan for a motorway Via (or under) BiH some time in future. The orange line on this map, around 30km. 

A tunnel under Neum (the dashed orange section) would be 6-7km long where the Peljasac Bridge and the 'black' approach road network is costed around €400-450m.


----------



## g.spinoza

roaddor said:


> The map above is created by EU. This is what the corridors will look like if the other countries from the Balkans are part of the union. Since the so called Western Balkans are not members of EU, they are treated separately and the corresponding corridors are not mapped. This is the main reason but that doesn't mean the corridors do not exist.
> The Adriatic-Ionian motorway is not on the EU agenda for the time being but it is an EU concern. Otherwise money would not be provided for the Peljesac bridge at all as it could be only a Croatian internal matter.
> Although not officially stated and even not depicted on the picture above, Sofia-Nis is in reality part of the Orient/East Med. corridor because this is the standard way of traveling from Istanbul towards Central and Western Europe.


I don't get it. 
There's no need to be a TEN-T corridor to get funds from EU, given that Croatia is a EU member.


----------



## g.spinoza

Le Clerk said:


> OMG?! But why ?! This bridge is supposed to bypass HR and BIH customs (4 of them for one trip) if I understand correctly, on the way to Dubrovnik. So then why only 1x1 when the traffic can be really mad in the summer there? Plus the fact that the bridge is made for the next 50 years and should take into account a significant increase in traffic.


I agree. 
Roads should be dimensioned for the largest foreseeable traffic, not for the average one.


----------



## stickedy

roaddor said:


> The map above is created by EU. This is what the corridors will look like if the other countries from the Balkans are part of the union. Since the so called Western Balkans are not members of EU, they are treated separately and the corresponding corridors are not mapped. This is the main reason but that doesn't mean the corridors do not exist.
> The Adriatic-Ionian motorway is not on the EU agenda for the time being but it is an EU concern. Otherwise money would not be provided for the Peljesac bridge at all as it could be only a Croatian internal matter.
> Although not officially stated and even not depicted on the picture above, Sofia-Nis is in reality part of the Orient/East Med. corridor because this is the standard way of traveling from Istanbul towards Central and Western Europe.


But the EU is just allowed to provide money for "their" corridors and projects. Look at my provided link! So as far as the Adriatic-Ionian motorway is not an EU corridor/project/whatever -> no money for it!

Of course every single country or several countries can define whatever corridors they like. So the Adriatic-Ionian motorway project came to life. But getting EU money for it is not easy.

Here you can read why Pelješac bridge was partly funded with EU money: Commission approves EU financing of the Pelješac bridge in Croatia


----------



## roaddor

g.spinoza said:


> I don't get it.
> *There's no need to be a TEN-T corridor to get funds from EU, given that Croatia is a EU member*.


This is exactly what I am saying. It is not even compulsory for a road to be included in the core network in order to obtain EU funds. A very good example is A3 in Greece which is nowadays U/C. This motorway is in the comprehensive network and is funded with some resources by EU. Croatia built its backbone before it joined EU. The bigger amount of money for the Peljesac bridge and the whole section through the peninsula comes from EU, which is quite normal. Also Bosna and Herzegovina is not in EU. Heading south to Dubrovnik now is the same route which refers to the Adriatic-Ionian motorway. Though this section now is not a motorway. But another appr. 60km remain in Croatia which can be built as a motorway, part of A1. And the question is whether EU will provide money for them? In my understanding it should do that. No matter if you look at the A1 as part of the Mediterranean (green) TENT corridor or not. And no matter also when Bosna and Herzegovina and Montenegro join EU.


----------



## sponge_bob

Peljasac was probably funded from EU Cohesion funds, the A1 corridor does not qualify for Transport funds as it is not a CORE corridor where all the EU transport funding goes for the next decade. Cohesion funding is still available in that time.


----------



## g.spinoza

roaddor said:


> This is exactly what I am saying. It is not even compulsory for a road to be included in the core network in order to obtain EU funds.


No, you were insisting on the fact that Adriatic corridor was part of TEN-T, or it was an extension. Please re-read your messages.


----------



## stickedy

If Croatia can show that a motorway or expressway connection between Doli and Dubrovnik is necessary and improves the prosperity of the population and convince the EU commission, then it will also get money for it from the EU Cohesion funds. This will not be that easy since with the bridge it is clear that so crossing BiH is avoided and this secures the free flow of goods and people within Croatia.. We will see

A new road from Dubrovnik to MNE border is not a problem since this project is already included in the EU plans for funding (most likely because Montenegro is set to become a EU member within this decade). In my opinion Croatia should focus on this connection, then it's also more easy to show that closing the gap between Doli and Dubrovnik is highly important.


----------



## Eulanthe

sponge_bob said:


> They have long had a plan for a motorway Via (or under) BiH some time in future. The orange line on this map, around 30km.
> 
> A tunnel under Neum (the dashed orange section) would be 6-7km long where the Peljasac Bridge and the 'black' approach road network is costed around €400-450m.


The Neum tunnel was a no-go for quite a few reasons, unfortunately. The logical thing to do would have been to build a tunnel with a single junction inside the tunnel, leading to a joint HR-BiH border control facility outside Neum. However, there are problems with Schengen not allowing border control outside the territory of the EU, as well as the fact that BiH had no interest in allowing such transit without a guarantee of free access to/from the Port of Ploce, something Croatia couldn't give without agreement from the EU as a whole.

There is one thing that also should be taken into account: Neum is very much a Bosnian Croat town, and there were voices in Croatia that didn't want a simple tunnel. By keeping the option of a longer route via Peljasac, it keeps Neum as a fuel/cigarettes destination for those heading further south, bringing money into the Neum economy as a result. The alternative route remains for trucks to avoid the hassle of customs (and to eliminate the weight restriction relating to truck traffic), but for tourists, going via Neum will still be the more sensible option if they want to save some cash.


----------



## roaddor

There is nothing to re-read. The so-called Core and Comprehensive networks are also TENT. The point is that some stretches might coincide with the 9 TENT corridors and others might not. A1 in Croatia is from Zagreb to Dubrovnik and the part along the Adriatic coast is considered an evolution from the European perspective of the Mediterranean TENT corridor. Although this is weird, it is probably due to the fact that the EU land connection between Croatia and Greece is broken, as Montenegro and Albania are currently not in EU. Moreover Split is the second biggest city in Croatia.
Take a closer look at the map below. A1 in Croatia is core network all the way from Zagreb to Dubrovnik/Montenegro border. So it is eligible for EU funding, no matter if some people like it or not. Besides Croatia has nothing to prove or show. It is obvious that the country wants to connect Dubrovnik with the capital and that motorway A1 in Dalmatia is part of a bigger Adriatic-Ionian motorway. 



https://ec.europa.eu/transport/infrastructure/tentec/tentec-portal/site/maps_upload/annexes/annex1/Annex%20I%20-%20VOL%2019.pdf


----------



## tfd543

Is the fuel really that cheap in Neum compared to HR ?

I love the Ina gas stations in HR. They wash ur windshield as well hehe.


----------



## keber

Fuel prices in BiH have gone up in recent years but they are still 10-15% cheaper than in Croatia, also cigarettes are much cheaper.


----------



## threo2k

To be honest, I think both countries have been stupid here. The A1 should just have passed through Neum with an exit/toll customs for those who want to enter Neum/BiH from the A1.

Very sad, because if both countries agreed about these 10 years ago, we could already have had a full complete A1 down to Dubrovnik considering the rapid improvement Croatia has had in their motorway network the last decade.


----------



## SRC_100

keber said:


> Fuel prices in BiH have gone up in recent years but they are still 10-15% cheaper than in Croatia, also cigarettes are much cheaper.


In Republika Srpska even cheaper 



threo2k said:


> To be honest, I think both countries have been stupid here. The A1 should just have passed through Neum with an exit/toll customs for those who want to enter Neum/BiH from the A1.
> 
> Very sad, because if both countries agreed about these 10 years ago, we could already have had a full complete A1 down to Dubrovnik considering the rapid improvement Croatia has had in their motorway network the last decade.


Totally agree... but the Balkan cauldron... one can't do anything.....one can't win with animosities ... unfortunately ....


----------



## theAlien

threo2k said:


> To be honest, I think both countries have been stupid here. The A1 should just have passed through Neum with an *exit/toll customs* for those who want to enter Neum/BiH from the A1.


This solution would exclude Croatia from participating in the Schengen Member States until Bosnia became an EU member ... so next 50 years 
The problem is the land separation of 2 parts of Croatia, with the only possibility of connection via another country, and not a member of the EU (for a long time, even as a candidate country).
Further, it is impossible (geographically) to have only one border crossing ... they must have 2 (see google maps).


----------



## Eulanthe

theAlien said:


> Further, it is impossible (geographically) to have only one border crossing ... they must have 2 (see google maps).


In theory, one option would be to ask for special permission from the EU to build a single border station in the middle of Neum, where traffic entering the motorway would go through BiH exit controls and Croatian entry controls. In reverse, traffic would only go through Croatian exit controls/BiH entry controls if they leave the motorway. Croatia and BiH could then operate some control points at either side of the territory, where anyone suspicious could be pulled over and checked.

It wouldn't be difficult to introduce a rule that traffic is prohibited from stopping and to enforce it with cameras. 

The problem was rather bad will on both sides, I think.


----------



## kokomo

Eulanthe said:


> IMO, they should just bite the bullet and build a toll motorway between the Montenegrin border and the *Tudjman bridge* on the D8. Building through Konavle will be easy, and they could have intermediate junctions at the airport, on D223 (for BiH) and for the city itself, before ending on the Lozica side of the bridge. They could easily charge a high toll for such transit during summer months - people would pay 30-50kn just to avoid the mess of the D8 through Dubrovnik in summer.


October 2018


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The bridge to Krk became toll-free today.









Od danas jedna naplata manje na hrvatskim cestama







www.poslovni.hr


----------



## Shenkey

What is the point of that? The bridge is mainly used by tourists and for locals you can introduce a yearly ticket that is priced at like 3 crossings.


----------



## Verso

theAlien said:


>


I think it should be 2×2 from the start. If nothing else, so that you can overtake someone slow in front of you.


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## stickedy

Most likely speed will be limited to 80 or even 60 because of wind conditions.


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## kokomo

One of the signs that I *laughed *the most at while driving in Croatia










I couldn't help but thinking of Obelix


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## Puležan

Shenkey said:


> What is the point of that? The bridge is mainly used by tourists and for locals you can introduce a yearly ticket that is priced at like 3 crossings.


The bridge was toll-free for residents of Krk island. The toll was controversial because when the bridge opened for traffic in 1980, it was told that it will be tolled only until the investment is payed off, but it wasn't like that at the end. Also, there are other bridges that connect islands which were always toll-free: Pag bridge, Trogir-Čiovo bridge, Vir bridge, Ugljan-Pašman bridge, so it was discriminatory for users. Keep in mind that Pag is also a touristic destination and the bridge also requires a lot of maintenance.


----------



## Adrian.02

Any news about the A5 motorway's new segments?(towards Hungary and Bosnia-Herzegovina)


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## x-type

kokomo said:


> One of the signs that I *laughed *the most at while driving in Croatia
> 
> View attachment 212678
> 
> 
> I couldn't help but thinking of Obelix


It is D8 near Šibenik, right?
We have wildboars, hedgehogs and frogs (beside usual deers and cows)


----------



## stickedy

Adrian.02 said:


> Any news about the A5 motorway's new segments?(towards Hungary and Bosnia-Herzegovina)


The A5 to border BiH is already finished for long time.


----------



## kokomo

x-type said:


> It is D8 near Šibenik, right?
> We have wildboars, hedgehogs and frogs (beside usual deers and cows)


Oh, it was taken just north of Dubrovnik on my way to Ston


----------



## theAlien

Adrian.02 said:


> Any news about the A5 motorway's new segments?(towards Hungary and Bosnia-Herzegovina)





stickedy said:


> The A5 to border BiH is already finished for long time.


The other side between the Halašica Bridge and Beli Manastir is under construction (completion at the end of 2022.)
On the Hungarian side the tender is in progress (M6 Bóly - Ivándárda, approximately 20 km) ... also planned to be completed by the end of 2022.


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## Puležan

AADT for 2019:



zezi said:


> Brojanje prometa na autocestama za 2019
> View attachment 237242
> 
> 
> Izvor: Hrvatske ceste
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hrvatske Ceste
> 
> 
> Hrvatske
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hrvatske-ceste.hr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tko zna kada ćemo opet imati ovakve brojke


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## zelenec1

Puležan said:


> AADT for 2019:


these are wery low numbers...


----------



## theAlien

zelenec1 said:


> these are wery low numbers...


In the Netherlands, the same would be said for your Slovenian AADT


----------



## Puležan

zelenec1 said:


> these are wery low numbers...


Yes, because the population is not big and there are not many big cities, but 4 biggest cities (Zagreb, Split, Rijeka, Osijek) are relatively far away from each other, on opposite parts of the country, so motorways were built to handle traffic between them.
But also keep in mind that this data is for AADT, and the ASDT is 2 or 3 times higher (especially on tourist routes: A1, A2, A6, A7, A8, A9) so without motorways Croatia would be one giant bottleneck during the summer.


----------



## keber

The biggest number that is most problematic is two lane road with traffic light at Matulji, which has about 3 times traffic number as some normal motorway sections. And still no solution in sight.


----------



## sponge_bob

The magic number in Croatia, with a huge tourist economy, is often the ASDT not the AADT. Same in parts of Spain and Portugal which would grind to a halt for months every year if a 2+2 were not built. 

Croatia recovers the cost in tolls, Spain does not.


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## Puležan

keber said:


> The biggest number that is most problematic is two lane road with traffic light at Matulji, which has about 3 times traffic number as some normal motorway sections. And still no solution in sight.


There is a plan, but no exact date for start of construction.


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## keber

I know about this plan - it is very easy and pretty cheap solution, as it just needs to be built a parallel viaduct about 150 m long and connect it to existing roundabout - probably 5 mil. euro max. with houses that need to be demolished. This would get rid of constant traffic jams that are often starting already on A7. It's sad that such an effective traffic solution per money spent is no priority.


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## ChrisZwolle

The Svilaj Bridge across the Sava on A5 to Bosnia has been completed and received an opening permit, HAC reported today.









Dovršen Most Svilaj


Obavljen tehnički pregled, puštanje u promet po dovršetku radova na dijelu trase u BIH Most preko rijeke Save kod Svilaja završen je u cij...




hac.hr


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## ChrisZwolle

A € 55 million EBRD loan has been secured for the construction of A5 to Beli Manastir and the Hungarian border.






Croatia completes Corridor Vc motorway with EBRD loan


Croatia is taking a major step towards deepening its European integration with the completion of its part of the Pan-European Corridor Vc motorway, thanks to a loan of up to €55 million provided by the EBRD.




www.ebrd.com


----------



## theAlien

Croatian Roads (Hrvatske ceste) has announced a tender for the construction of a highway  _Izgradnja dionice BC, Okučani – granica BiH, II. faza, duljine 4,07 km_  ... as well as a tender for  _supervision of building work_


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## ChrisZwolle

EU news;

*State aid: Commission approves Croatian plans enabling €197 million of investments to extend Istrian Y motorway *

The European Commission has approved under EU State aid rules a Croatian plan to prolong the Istrian Y motorway concession agreement between Croatia and the company Bina-Istra. This will allow €197 million of new investments by the concession operator to go ahead, while limiting distortions of competition. 

The Istrian Y motorway is a 145 km long motorway linking the Istrian region with the rest of Croatia. The motorway is operated under a concession agreement from 1995, which was awarded to the company Bina-Istra until 2034. In June 2020, Croatia notified to the Commission a prolongation of the concession agreement until 2039. 

The prolongation will allow Bina-Istra to finance the construction of a second carriageway (one more lane in each direction) between Vranja Interchange and the Učka tunnel/Kvarner portal - an 8km stretch on the north-eastern side of the motorway. The aid takes the form of a prolongation of the concession. This will allow the €197 million investment, which will mainly be used to construct a new 5.63 km-long second tube to the Učka tunnel, which is necessary to meet the minimum safety requirements, as well as several new viaducts, underpasses and overpasses. Bina-Istra will also renew the Kvarner rest area.









Press corner


Highlights, press releases and speeches




ec.europa.eu


----------



## bortttt

ChrisZwolle said:


> EU news;
> 
> *State aid: Commission approves Croatian plans enabling €197 million of investments to extend Istrian Y motorway *
> 
> The European Commission has approved under EU State aid rules a Croatian plan to prolong the Istrian Y motorway concession agreement between Croatia and the company Bina-Istra. This will allow €197 million of new investments by the concession operator to go ahead, while limiting distortions of competition.
> 
> The Istrian Y motorway is a 145 km long motorway linking the Istrian region with the rest of Croatia. The motorway is operated under a concession agreement from 1995, which was awarded to the company Bina-Istra until 2034. In June 2020, Croatia notified to the Commission a prolongation of the concession agreement until 2039.
> 
> The prolongation will allow Bina-Istra to finance the construction of a second carriageway (one more lane in each direction) between Vranja Interchange and the Učka tunnel/Kvarner portal - an 8km stretch on the north-eastern side of the motorway. The aid takes the form of a prolongation of the concession. This will allow the €197 million investment, which will mainly be used to construct a new 5.63 km-long second tube to the Učka tunnel, which is necessary to meet the minimum safety requirements, as well as several new viaducts, underpasses and overpasses. Bina-Istra will also renew the Kvarner rest area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Press corner
> 
> 
> Highlights, press releases and speeches
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ec.europa.eu


I guess that doesn't include removing the traffic light, which will be 15 km from the tunnel...


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## The Wild Boy

Can i see a map of all planned motorways in Croatia?

I know about the extensions with Bosnians motorways, and the bridges that they built there but i don't know on what else Croatia is working / planning to extend it's motorway network.


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## MichiH

There is nothing really planned for motorways right now...... A5 is mostly u/c from the Hungarian border to the BIH border and A8 just gets the second carriageway. There were talks about A7 extension to A1 and sometimes dreams about A1 near Dubrovnik - only a short segment to the airport might be "officially planned".

Maybe some D route extensions (expressways). Any news about D10, D12 or D14?


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## x-type

MichiH said:


> There is nothing really planned for motorways right now...... A5 is mostly u/c from the Hungarian border to the BIH border and A8 just gets the second carriageway. There were talks about A7 extension to A1 and sometimes dreams about A1 near Dubrovnik - only a short segment to the airport might be "officially planned".
> 
> Maybe some D route extensions (expressways). Any news about D10, D12 or D14?


U/C currently: A5 to H border (2023), and A5 to BIH border (actually, the latter one is finnished, only BIH side is being waited). A8 second carriageway between tunnel Učka and Pazin west (2021), D12 Farkaševac - Breza (2022) and Pelješac bridge with connector road (2022, I don't know its number yet).
Projects that are to come right after it: D10 Križevci - Vojakovački Kloštar, D12 Breza - Bjelovar, D2 Suhopolje - Slatina, A8 tunnel Učka - Matulji including second tube of the tunnel, A7 Selce - Novi Vinodolski, A2 second carriageway between Krapina and Đurmanec.
Further realistic projects: A11 Lekenik - Mošćenica, D10 Vojakovački Kloštar - Koprivnica, D12 Bjelovar - Virovitica, probably some works on A7 between Križišće and Senj and probably some works on new road Dubrovnik - Ćilipi (now I see that you have already mentioned it).

I'd say this is all till 2030 or 2035.


----------



## MichiH

x-type said:


> U/C currently: [...] D12 Farkaševac - Breza (2022)


It seems to be really u/c. When have works been started? In June?


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## The Wild Boy

MichiH said:


> There is nothing really planned for motorways right now...... A5 is mostly u/c from the Hungarian border to the BIH border and A8 just gets the second carriageway. There were talks about A7 extension to A1 and sometimes dreams about A1 near Dubrovnik - only a short segment to the airport might be "officially planned".
> 
> Maybe some D route extensions (expressways). Any news about D10, D12 or D14?


So aside from these, Croatia has basically completed it's highway network. 

This puts other Balkan Countries in shame.


----------



## Puležan

The Wild Boy said:


> So aside from these, Croatia has basically completed it's highway network.
> 
> This puts other Balkan Countries in shame.


Yes, pretty much.

A1 is not officially completed in full length because it's planned to reach Dubrovnik, but I think Dubrovnik will be connected with an 2x1 expressway. So A1 is ok for now.
A2 is completed in full length, but it has cca 4 km of half-profile section
A3 - completed
A4 - completed
A5 is missing "only" the section from Osijek to H border, but the section from Osijek to Beli Manastir is u/c right now
A6 - completed
A7 missing the section from Križišće to Žuta Lokva (A1) via Senj
A8 is getting 2nd carriageway right now
A9 - completed, except 2 viaducts which are single profile (Mirna and Limska draga)
A10 - completed
A11 - missing the section from Lekenik to Sisak (official plans for the section further south are non existing)
This wikipedia map is pretty much accurate:


----------



## x-type

MichiH said:


> It seems to be really u/c. When have works been started? In June?


May or June, yes. It was just before the elections, but Bjelovar mayor swears that it was not pre-electional propaganda. For now they are progressing slowly, but works are going on. Also, that section is really silly because the whle section to Bjelovar should ahve been done, but they have suddenly decided to split it into 2 sections.


----------



## MichiH

x-type said:


> May or June, yes. It was just before the elections, but Bjelovar mayor swears that it was not pre-electional propaganda. For now they are progressing slowly, but works are going on. Also, that section is really silly because the whle section to Bjelovar should ahve been done, but they have suddenly decided to split it into 2 sections.


How long is the section and where exactly is the end?


----------



## MichiH

Puležan said:


> A7 missing the section from Križišće to Žuta Lokva (A1) via Senj
> This wikipedia map is pretty much accurate:


What's about A7 bypass north of Rijeka? It's on the map but you don't mention it.

A12 on map is D10 and A13 is D12.


----------



## x-type

MichiH said:


> How long is the section and where exactly is the end?


I am now reading the articles about it. It seems that only 5 km that will end nowhere are u/c, just as it is indicated on OpenStreet. There is the county border, probably they still need to finish expropriation on the route.

One more thing: there will soon start construction from the opposite side, section Virovitica - Špišić Bukovica, 4,5km.


----------



## Puležan

MichiH said:


> What's about A7 bypass north of Rijeka? It's on the map but you don't mention it.
> 
> A12 on map is D10 and A13 is D12.


Northern A7 bypass of Rijeka is just in spatial plans, but nothing in particular is being done about it. 

A12 and A13 have been downgraded from motorways to 2x2 expressways. D10 is open from Sv. Helena (junction with A4) to Križevci, and it is planned to be extended to Koprivnica. 

D12 is built only from Vrbovec (junction with D10) to Farkaševac,but it will be extended to Bjelovar, Virovitica and hungarian M60.


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## stickedy

MichiH said:


> There were talks about A7 extension to A1 and...


Was is not just about bypass(es) of Novi Vinodolski and Crikvenica as 2x2?

Beside of that, Croatia just get or got a new government, so plans will come in decent time.


----------



## Puležan

stickedy said:


> Was is not just about bypass(es) of Novi Vinodolski and Crikvenica as 2x2?
> 
> Beside of that, Croatia just get or got a new government, so plans will come in decent time.


No, bypass of Novi Vinodolski will be built first in half-profile (1x2) and connected to the D8 Adriatic highway. Later in the future that segment will be used as one of the carriageways of a full profile (2x2) motorway A7.


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## x-type

MichiH said:


> What's about A7 bypass north of Rijeka? It's on the map but you don't mention it.
> 
> A12 on map is D10 and A13 is D12.


About A7 north of Rijeka - I'm afraid that we will not see it so soon. Namely, second carriageway of A8 from tunnel Učka to Matulji (Rijeka) is very near the green light. Enviromental study has been done, project is done, so it is almost finnished project before construction. And it will for sure postpone A7.


----------



## zezi

MichiH said:


> It seems to be really u/c. When have works been started? In June?


Just to be clear, that part of D12 expressway u/c will have only one carriageway, and without any exit. So it wil be useless without second part, and we have no idea when second part will be built


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## The Wild Boy

Okay regarding the planned road towards Dubrovnik, and many bridges, I've seen many renders but they all show a normal 2x1 road connection, that is not even an express road, since it's missing a hard shoulder / does not have 2 +2 formation.

Why are they going this way, since i can see most of the planned bridges will have 2+2 connections, and i feel that if they just do a 2+2 connection without hard shoulder it should be fine.
They need to keep in mind that Dubrovnik is a popular tourist destination, so building a 1+1 road won't do much of a job, and it might result in many accidents too.
Let's not forget the already existing traffic jams on the Croatian Motorways during summer periods.
They will make a big mistake if they just build a 1+1 profile.

And also, some time ago, i saw a render of that proposed Korcula Bridge, or whatever it was called.
Who on earth chose a design 2+2 lanes, where the additional lane is a hard shoulder???? Tell me who on earth will actually use that hard shoulder, and stop on a cable spanned bridge??? For what reason. Even Turkey on most of it's bridges on Bosphorus does not use hard shoulders, because they are useless on a big and large bridge. They can just use those hard shoulder lanes and convert them to a driving lane, so that way you can have 2+2 actual lanes, and not something useless. They will make a big mistake if they use that design.
And since, on most of the renders i managed to see that the bridges would be in a 2+2 formation, it seems even dumber to make rest of the roads in 1+1 formation. They can just do a 2+2 formation, and in the future if needed upgrade that road to add a hard shoulder.
I don't see a reason at why they should use 1+1 road connecting one of Croatia's popular tourist attraction... if this is how Croatia does tourism, then i don't know what to say....
Well unless the traffic level is really going to be low there, to just make a 1+1 road connection to Dubrovnik, but i highly doubt it. We have seen how the situation is with the other cities on the Adriatic sea, and the traffic jams during peak summer season.


----------



## Puležan

🔼The whole section from D8 to D8 will be an expressway, in 1x2 profile, without at-level crossings. In Croatia, there's no need for an expressway to have hard shoulders, regardless the profile (1x2 or 2x2).

Keep in mind that traffic is not that big there - last section of A1 near Ploče has AADT 5400, and ASDT is 10000. So, a half-profile expressway (1x2) with 100 km/h will do just fine, since there won't be border crossings any more.
ASDT data
AADT data

P.S. Korčula bridge/tunnel is just a proposal. Nothing will be built in next 20 years.


----------



## theAlien

The Wild Boy said:


> They need to keep in mind that Dubrovnik is a popular tourist destination, so building a 1+1 road won't do much of a job, and it might result in many accidents too.
> Let's not forget the already existing traffic jams on the Croatian Motorways during summer periods.
> They will make a big mistake if they just build a 1+1 profile.





The Wild Boy said:


> I don't see a reason at why they should use 1+1 road connecting one of Croatia's popular tourist attraction... if this is how Croatia does tourism, then i don't know what to say....
> Well unless the traffic level is really going to be low there, to just make a 1+1 road connection to Dubrovnik, but i highly doubt it. We have seen how the situation is with the other cities on the Adriatic sea, and the traffic jams during peak summer season.


You don't make much sense about tourism in Dubrovnik ... it is not a car destination, as much in the past as it is in the future *(air arrivals and cruisers) ... but Dubrovnik as an area deserves to have its citizens connected by a better road than now with the rest of the country. And that is exactly what is being done now ... nothing less and nothing more.


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## The Wild Boy

Okay then. 

Well i assume in the future, if there's a need to they could upgrade that section to a full motorway profile, if of course they project it so. 
The bridges, as far as i can see on the renders are already projected and made in a 2+2 formation. 

The dream of a motorway through the Adriatic Coast connecting Bosnia, Montenegro and Albania now seems to be far from happening.


----------



## VITORIA MAN

Croatia by Tejvan Pettinger, en Flickr


----------



## Puležan

The Wild Boy said:


> Okay then.
> 
> Well i assume in the future, if there's a need to they could upgrade that section to a full motorway profile, if of course they project it so.
> The bridges, as far as i can see on the renders are already projected and made in a 2+2 formation.
> ...


What bridges? Pelješac bridge will have 1 traffic lane + hard shoulder in each direction. The other bridge is a much smaller one crossing the small bay near Ston and it will be 1x2 as well as other viaducts on the road. Nothing will be built in 2x2 profile right now. 

We'll see what the future will bring. When transit traffic grows bigger, probably the BIH motorway will be built from Croatian A10 towards Montenegro, so the Pelješac expressway will be just for Croatian purposes - tourism and connecting Dubrovnik exclave with the rest of the country, as theAlien said.


----------



## The Wild Boy

Puležan said:


> What bridges? Pelješac bridge will have 1 traffic lane + hard shoulder in each direction. The other bridge is a much smaller one crossing the small bay near Ston and it will be 1x2 as well as other viaducts on the road. Nothing will be built in 2x2 profile right now.
> 
> We'll see what the future will bring. When transit traffic grows bigger, probably the BIH motorway will be built from Croatian A10 towards Montenegro, so the Pelješac expressway will be just for Croatian purposes - tourism and connecting Dubrovnik exclave with the rest of the country, as theAlien said.


But why put a hard shoulder on a bridge??
Really dumb idea, as i explained and they could use the hard shoulder and convert it into a traffic lane. No one will stop on the bridge itself, and even dumber is that the rest of the road towards Dubrovnik will be only 1+1 lane without hard shoulder.
At least making the whole planned route 1+1 with hard shoulders on each side, but you guys said Croatia doesn't do that either...

Oh and btw, will they toll that bridge?


----------



## tfd543

The Wild Boy said:


> But why put a hard shoulder on a bridge??
> Really dumb idea, as i explained and they could use the hard shoulder and convert it into a traffic lane. No one will stop on the bridge itself, and even dumber is that the rest of the road towards Dubrovnik will be only 1+1 lane without hard shoulder.
> At least making the whole planned route 1+1 with hard shoulders on each side, but you guys said Croatia doesn't do that either...
> 
> Oh and btw, will they toll that bridge?


Its too dangerous not to have an emergency lane. The bridge is What, 2 km..


----------



## The Wild Boy

tfd543 said:


> Its too dangerous not to have an emergency lane. The bridge is What, 2 km..


And vehicles will actually stop on the bridge... 
Yeah yeah, what a dumb idea. 
Park a truck on the bridge, why not. Park a vehicle on the bridge, why not. It's gonna become a mess imo if they put a hard shoulder, and no one will use it. They can just use it as a lane, so you could get 2 + 2 profile. 
Turkey has bridges over bosphorus which are 3+3 / 4+4 lanes without hard shoulder. 

Plus if many vehicles stop on a bridge, that can put stress on the bridge, unless it's well built and designed to handle stopped traffic. 

All I'm saying is that it won't change anything regarding safety, and a hard shoulder will be useless there. 

Look at most of Croatian motorway tunnels, they are all mostly 2+2 without hard shoulders. And they are mostly safe and accident free. 
Name me one serious accident that has occurred on a tunnel on Croatian motorways in the past 5 years. You won't find any.


----------



## KHS

You are not very bright, are you?


----------



## tfd543

The Wild Boy said:


> And vehicles will actually stop on the bridge...
> Yeah yeah, what a dumb idea.
> Park a truck on the bridge, why not. Park a vehicle on the bridge, why not. It's gonna become a mess imo if they put a hard shoulder, and no one will use it. They can just use it as a lane, so you could get 2 + 2 profile.
> Turkey has bridges over bosphorus which are 3+3 / 4+4 lanes without hard shoulder.
> 
> Plus if many vehicles stop on a bridge, that can put stress on the bridge, unless it's well built and designed to handle stopped traffic.
> 
> All I'm saying is that it won't change anything regarding safety, and a hard shoulder will be useless there.
> 
> Look at most of Croatian motorway tunnels, they are all mostly 2+2 without hard shoulders. And they are mostly safe and accident free.
> Name me one serious accident that has occurred on a tunnel on Croatian motorways in the past 5 years. You won't find any.


Well i see that youre trying to push it, but i am sure that there is a technical/safety reason behind it.


----------



## keber

Actually if there is need, new Pelješac bridge can be relatively easily converted to 2+2 lanes. The deck is wide enough and strong too.
But currently and for foreseeable future this is not needed.


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## MichiH

Boy, hard shoulders are designed for SAFETY reason. They are also called "Emergency stopping lanes". No one should ever stop there. Never. It is forbidden except for emergency reason. They are MOST useful on bottlenecks. Long stretches without emergency bays. Like.... Long bridges.









Shoulder (road) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


----------



## satanism

The Wild Boy is right, this is a waste of space. There are literally countless examples of 2+2 bridges without emergency lanes, both longer and busier than this one even in butt-hurt countries on safety topic like the Nordics. Matter of fact, I'm struggling to name even one that has 4 lanes two of which are emergency reserved. The year is 2020, intelligent traffic management is a thing so the safety argument goes out the window.

From traffic point of view this bridge is not really anything special....it's special only in political sense.


----------



## MichiH

I was refering to The Wild Boy's argument that no one uses hard shoulders on a bridge.
I fully agree that a full 2x2 design - without emergency lanes - would be better. But the bridge is not designed for 2x2 if I'm not mistaken.


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## satanism

Surely they designed it to be able to sustain four active lanes, otherwise that would be an epic stupidity. Whether they planned to actually have them from the start or not is a different subject.


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## keber

Lanes have 3.5+3.0 width x2. And there is a posibility of widening to proper 2x3.5 lanes with just moderate adaptation when needed.


----------



## Eulanthe

After two weeks driving around Split, I have some questions:

1. About the D8 from Podstrana to Split Airport. Why was this designed in such a strange way? It's grade separated from the bottom of the hill near Podstrana, but then the section between the A1 roundabout and Split Airport is a mess of traffic lights and more. Wouldn't it have made more sense to design it as an expressway from the beginning? And by extension, why wasn't the expressway built to Trogir? 

2. What's going on with the Omis bypass? I saw a tunnel portal to nowhere on the side of the mountain, and a connector road on the southern side of Omis, but no actual working taking place. 

3. Why on earth is the whole road system so stupid and badly designed around the Port of Split?


----------



## x-type

1.2.3. Do you have some easier questions with answer which make sense? 

But let's try:
1. That road never meant to be an expressway. It is just an ordinary avenue. That's why there are many traffic lights. SOme sections or some intersections are totally denivelated. Why not all? No reason, probably costs.

2. Deadline is 09/2022.

3. Because it is city centre and suddenly it became busy ferry port.


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## stickedy

There could be strong winds at the Adriatic coast, so it makes sense that there is an emergency lane at Pelješac bridge for safety reasons instead of 2x2. It can be really dangerous when two cars are driving side by side without much space to handle gusts of wind.


----------



## grobo

A8 - Istrian Y building of full profile

All photos by me



grobo said:


> Izgradnja punog profila Istarskog ipsilona na dionici Pazin-tunel Učka
> 
> Pazin - Cerovlje
> Radovi na ovoj dionici su više manje gotovi, trenutno se izvode završni radovi (postavljaju žičane ograde,uređenje okoliša,sadnja zelenila...)





grobo said:


> Cerovlje – Vijadukt Mrzlići 1/2





grobo said:


> Vijadukt Mrzlići
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Korekcija trase


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## grobo

grobo said:


> Lupoglav – tunel Učka 1/2
> 
> View attachment 467965
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> 
> View attachment 467966
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grobo said:


> Lupoglav – tunel Učka 2/2
> 
> View attachment 467982
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> View attachment 467991


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## steve5

Construction of the access road to the Pelješac Bridge in Prapratno, 28.08.2020:





Construction of the access road to the Pelješac Bridge in Brijesta, 29.08.2020:





Pelješac Bridge, 28.08.2020:


----------



## zezi




----------



## ChrisZwolle

zezi said:


> *Motorway A8, Croatia*
> 
> November 5th, 2020.
> 
> New segment of motorway A8 in Istria Croatia, was upgraded to full profile (before it was single carriageway and two way traffic) from Pazin to Cerovlje. Lot is 12 km long.
> 
> From Cerovlje to tunel Učka (17 km) second carriageway is U/C. Next summer completion of that lot is expected.
> 
> Info in croatian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Otvorena dionica Pazin-Cerovlje, sljedeće godine kreću radovi na nastavku izgradnje Istarskog ipsilona i druge cijevi tunela Učka
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mmpi.gov.hr


Interestingly, Google Earth has very recent satellite imagery of that area (13 October 2020):


----------



## panda80

During my vacation in Croatia, I visited also the area around Rijeka and drove on the very spectacular A7 motorway. There are many tunnels and viaducts on the way, and great views of Rijeka and the sea. However, the motorway is substandard in the city area, without shoulder and a 70km/h speed limit. Traffic was very fluent on a september sunday morning when I drove there, but I assume during a normal touristic season there can be congestion on this section. Is the outer bypass still planned? If Rijeka will develop further (the city was one of the most powerful economic centres in Yugoslavia), I think this outer bypass will be very necessary, to separate local city traffic from long-distance traffic.


----------



## Luki_SL

^^There is wrong singage 

Zagreb > A7/E65 









Then (correctly) > A6/E65


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## Puležan

panda80 said:


> ... However, the motorway is substandard in the city area, without shoulder and a 70km/h speed limit. Traffic was very fluent on a september sunday morning when I drove there, but I assume during a normal touristic season there can be congestion on this section.


I haven't experienced a congestion on that part and I drive very often through the whole year (I'm from Pula but live in Zagreb, so I travel a lot via the Rijeka bypass  ). The traffic is fluent because the speed cameras force people to drive normally.

And actually, it's an expressway, not a motorway, although it has "A" in its designation. It doesn't have hard shoulders on the majority of the route, the speed limits are low (110-90-70-even 60-100), it has blue signs. The motorway section (with green signs and hard shoulders, 130 km/h limit) is "only" 15 km long, from the border crossing until the Jušići tunnel: link to google maps



panda80 said:


> Is the outer bypass still planned? If Rijeka will develop further (the city was one of the most powerful economic centres in Yugoslavia), I think this outer bypass will be very necessary, to separate local city traffic from long-distance traffic...


It is planned, but it's a long term plan. The current route can handle the amount of traffic.


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## SRC_100

🔼🔼
I agee that is quite nice to drive in Istria.
I`ve drove few times this A7 to Slovenija, unfortunately there is lack of motorway or at least expressway leading to A1 near Postojna, which is imo good idea.


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## Luki_SL

^^There is plan to built A6 motrway. Look at Slovenian motorway thread


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## bortttt

Luki_SL said:


> ^^There is plan to built A6 motrway. Look at Slovenian motorway thread


O.T.
I've never understood why it has to follow the route of the old state road, wouldn't it be better (and I think also with lower costs) to make an extension of the H4 or the A1?
Currently those who come from Italy always use state roads in that stretch, and even if they were Postojna would use normal stade up to Pivka, and for those who come from Ljubljana are only a few km more


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## keber

There is more traffic from Ljubljana direction than from Italy. Also construction is easier there (still quite complicated)


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## bortttt

keber said:


> Also construction is easier there (still quite complicated)


well there is not so much difference, in my opinion the soils have a very similar conformation


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## KHS

theAlien said:


> Danasnji video na YT .. nazalost ne i snimci


----------



## x-type

keber said:


> There is more traffic from Ljubljana direction than from Italy. Also construction is easier there (still quite complicated)


True, but if there was not that stupid rule about Bregana/Obrežje to be the only HR/SLO border crossing for freight traffic direction Italy, all HR trucks would be entering Slovenia there, so amount of traffic Rijeka - Trieste would grow quite a lot.


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## bortttt

x-type said:


> True, but if there was not that stupid rule about Bregana/Obrežje to be the only HR/SLO border crossing for freight traffic direction Italy, all HR trucks would be entering Slovenia there, so amount of traffic Rijeka - Trieste would grow quite a lot.


As long as they don't make other highways, it's only fair that it remains just that.


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## keber

Trieste-Rijeka main road goes through 2 villages on Italian side and 8 villages and one town on Slovenian side and even 2 on Croatian side. It is fair for all those people that transit truck traffic uses existing motorway routes until new ones are built.


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## FiveYears

It is fair for all those villages to build that very short motorway already "yesterday" then...


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## keber

40 or 45 km of completely new "very short" motorway is a problem even in Germany and also here, in all three countries, not only in Slovenia.


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## FiveYears

EU founds probably favor connecting two, in this case three EU countries, especially when it comes to only 40-45 km. At the end, it does not need to be full motorway, fast highway like slovenian A5 or H4 would be more than enough..


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## zezi

Pelješac road U/C





Debeli brijeg tunnel ( 2467 m ) breaktrough


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## zezi

Today construction on second tube of Učka tunnel ( motorway A8) started. Tube length will be 5,6 km.
Construction should be completed in 42 months.


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## Verso

^^ Strange priorities. Isn't the A2 much more important than A8? And with a lot shorter tunnel (just 2 km) waiting to be twinned. Wasn't it exceptionally important for Croatia that Slovenian A4 be finished ASAP?


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## zezi

Since Corona we changed our priorities, from international traffic to domestic traffic.


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## BL2

i think the concessionaire on A2 according to agreement with governemnt doesn´t have to build the 2nd tubes until there is certain traffice volume, therefore they will not build it unless it is really necessary.


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## keber

> EU founds probably favor connecting two, in this case three EU countries, especially when it comes to only 40-45 km. At the end, it does not need to be full motorway, fast highway like slovenian A5 or H4 would be more than enough.


EU does not give funds for new road infrastructure outside main TEN-T corridors after 2020 cohesion funds were closed. New funds will be more oriented to "green technology" (railways, smarter traffic etc.) where new roads usually aren't included. Countries need to fund them themselves so usually priorities are there where there is more traffic. There are some smaller funds currently existing but they don't give much (for the Karavanke tunnel new tube Slovenia and Austria got grant of just 10% of total value). We'll see what the future with coronavirus relief funds will bring.



Verso said:


> ^^ Strange priorities. Isn't the A2 much more important than A8? And with a lot shorter tunnel (just 2 km) waiting to be twinned. Wasn't it exceptionally important for Croatia that Slovenian A4 be finished ASAP?


Long tunnels need to have escape routes by European directive that Učka doesn't have. It is also much older tunnels with much less safety equipment as A2 tunnels.


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## Verso

zezi said:


> Since Corona we changed our priorities, from international traffic to domestic traffic.


Breaking news: vaccination starts in 9 days.


----------



## zezi

Verso said:


> Breaking news: vaccination starts in 9 days.


Ok, then in 10 days they will move all equipment from A8 to A2. 

P.S. Tunnel sveta tri kralja on A2 have main tube for traffic and evacuation tube (smaller size) with exit on one side only, but Učka dont have evacuation tube and it is 5 km long.
Interesting fact: second tube of Učka will be more then 500 m longer then old tube.
5062 m vs 5630 m


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## x-type

keber said:


> Trieste-Rijeka main road goes through 2 villages on Italian side and 8 villages and one town on Slovenian side and even 2 on Croatian side. It is fair for all those people that transit truck traffic uses existing motorway routes until new ones are built.


I'm not talking about transit traffic.


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## bortttt

zezi said:


> Ok, then in 10 days they will move all equipment from A8 to A2.
> 
> P.S. Tunnel sveta tri kralja on A2 have main tube for traffic and evacuation tube (smaller size) with exit on one side only, but Učka dont have evacuation tube and it is 5 km long.
> Interesting fact: second tube of Učka will be more then 500 m longer then old tube.
> 5062 m vs 5630 m











is to avoid demolishing the existing highway concession offices, and the new tunnel will not have these two open-air sections:










In addition, the A8/B8 will now be entirely two lanes from the interconnection with the B9 to the tunnel Učka tunnel.


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## grobo

A8 Building of second lane

More photos at:
Post #8323
Post #8324
Post #8325
Post #8326


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## bogdymol

This week I drove from Slovenia to Zagreb on A2 and then further on on A3 up to the Serbian border.

On A2 I was surprised to see many electronic signs limiting the speed limit to 100 km/h because of slippery road conditions caused by low temperatures. The temperature shown by such signs as well as my car's thermometer were ranging between +2°C and +9°C. Can the road really be slippery at +9°C?

The A3 motorway east of Zagreb had average traffic close to Zagreb area but was empty or nearly empty on its eastern section. In general it's of good quality, but there are some areas which looked to have been relatively recently repaved but were still quite bumpy.

However, the most unusual thing was the absurd amount of speed limit changes. There was a new speed limit every couple of km, ranging from 130 km/h down to as low as 80 km/h for no apparent reason. On a 10 km section you could see the speed limit changes like 130-100-120-100-80-120-130-100-130. Why would you do that?



















Why would you put a 100 km/h speed limit sign on this section that is perfectly straight, with no traffic and no visible danger around?










It went as low as 80 km/h:


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## theAlien

^^
Due to bad road surfaces .. as seen in the photos.


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## bogdymol

That’s what I also thought at some points. But what can you see in the pictures where is 100 and 80 km/h speed limit is not bad road surface. Actually the road surface was very smooth in those areas. It has different colors as the pavement was wet overnight and was drying in the morning (light area = dry asphalt, darker area = wet asphalt).


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## Autobahn-mann

^^ Maybe, if it happens like in Italy, probably are signs forgotten there after the removal of road works. (BTW in Italy are usually forgotten in local roads, and obviously non on limited acces roads like motorways!)


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## keber

Those speed limits are not forgotten and happen also on many parts of A1 and as I read somewhere it is mostly due to some buerocratic reason, like a particular curve designed for 120 km/h although it can be easily driven even 200 km/h. Or a few bumps here and there that are really not critical and could be repaired pretty quickly.
No one obeys them and apparently even police doesn't care.
Speed limits of 80 km/h or even less because of rain _somewhere_ on that motorway (not nessecary on section you are driving) are normal form the very beginning of massive adoption of electronic sings in Croatia. Once I witnesed about 150 km long 40 km/h speed limit section because of possible icing conditions (although road was pretty ok)


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## Puležan

bogdymol said:


> However, the most unusual thing was the absurd amount of speed limit changes. There was a new speed limit every couple of km, ranging from 130 km/h down to as low as 80 km/h for no apparent reason. On a 10 km section you could see the speed limit changes like 130-100-120-100-80-120-130-100-130. Why would you do that?


Croatia is a very bureaucratic country, so 120 km/h is put (as @keber said) on left curves where the surface of emergency lane is inclined towards the outside, instead of towards the inner part of the curve. The motorway authority (HAC) found out about that "problem" couple of years ago, after 40 years of normal traffic on that motorway. And after that, they "found out" that parts of A1 (built only 15 years ago) were also built according to the same technical parameters rules so A1 from Karlovac to Lika county also has stupid 100-120 limits. 

Parts with 100 km/h probably have little bit of bumps or small cracks so motorway authority (HAC) is trying to minimize/diminish its liability in case someone has a traffic accident. So they can tell "you were overspeeding and didn't obey traffic signs". 

I have noticed that 80 km/h sections are those on which they plan to install sound barriers or repair the railings, so they put 80 km/h limit and no-overtaking sign, but the actual works haven't even started yet 😣

Croatian way of solving problems (we have a saying: "hrvatska posla") 😜


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## x-type

Speed limits in HR are generally tottaly bureaucratic crap. National road authority places them just to have alibi in possible accident (you will probably find no crossroads in HR where main road doesn't have 50 or 60 speed limit).


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## Autobahn-mann

^^ As in Italy...


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## Corvinus

A 120 km/h posted limit with a general limit of 130 is questionable in itself; will those 10 km/h less really make the difference?
I know of very few other examples for that (M3 in Hungary has - or had - it somewhere too).
Idea -- raise the general limit to 140 km/h, goes well with 120, 100, 80 posted limits, always steps of 20 km/h then.


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## alserrod

About Istrian Y, which sides are under construction nowadays?


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## bortttt

alserrod said:


> About Istrian Y, which sides are under construction nowadays?


Pisino East - Učka East


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## Robertkc

bogdymol said:


> However, the most unusual thing was the absurd amount of speed limit changes. There was a new speed limit every couple of km, ranging from 130 km/h down to as low as 80 km/h for no apparent reason. On a 10 km section you could see the speed limit changes like 130-100-120-100-80-120-130-100-130. Why would you do that?


Ignore them - I always stick to a steady 150/160 and just laugh at either a) they forgot to remove old signs from construction works or b) some kind of trap for local police to raise money.


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## italystf

bortttt said:


> Pisino East - Učka East


Pisino is probably better known internationally as Pazin. Pisino is used only in Italy.


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## Puležan

bortttt said:


> Pisino East - Učka East


Pazin west (exit Rogovići)-Cerovlje (11 km) is already finished, but there still are some restrictions because of the constructions further east. So at the moment they are building the part from Cerovlje towards Učka tunnel, including a completely new resting area (with gas station, toilets, caffe). 
The excavation works of the second tube of Učka tunnel haven't really started, only a formal opening ceremony was held.


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## Eulanthe

Corvinus said:


> Idea -- raise the general limit to 140 km/h, goes well with 120, 100, 80 posted limits, always steps of 20 km/h then.


140km/h would make a lot of sense in Croatia. I would exclude Zagreb-Rijeka from it, but other than that, there's no reason not to allow 140km/h on most of the A1 for instance. 130km/h is just tediously slow, especially if you're travelling in May or late September when conditions are fantastic.


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## Puležan

Eulanthe said:


> 140km/h would make a lot of sense in Croatia. I would exclude Zagreb-Rijeka from it, but other than that, there's no reason not to allow 140km/h on most of the A1 for instance. 130km/h is just tediously slow, especially if you're travelling in May or late September when conditions are fantastic.


Yes, but only on some motorways: A1, A3, A5 and A11. Other motorways are more winding:

A2 has tunnels and more curves on its northern section so it's not even 130 km/h, but 110
A4 on its section from Varaždin to Breznički Hum has 100 and 110
A6 has 110 because of the curves and slopes
when A7 from Križišće to Žuta Lokva is built, it will probably have the same characteristics as A6 because it has to climb to 700 meters above sea level
A8 is winding because it's an upgraded highway (magistrala) so it has 100 and 110
A9 has 110 because it was initially projected as an expressway, not a motorway, so the curves are not as smooth as on motorways
A10 has many features on only 8 km: rest area, exit, toll boots, border crossing


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## TheRible

theAlien said:


> ^^
> How did you come to the conclusion that the works were stopped?
> I don't know what the dynamics of the contractor is .. but there is no talk of stopping the works.
> A few photos a couple of days ago:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 1295668
> View attachment 1295680
> View attachment 1295683
> View attachment 1295688
> View attachment 1295690
> View attachment 1295693


I see it on satelite. No noticable progress since November.


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## MichiH

Winter break?


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## TheRible

MichiH said:


> Winter break?


Dunno, it is April over here.


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## SRC_100

🔼 🔼
Yeah April... for just 2 days...

Btw, the pictures of previous page have been taken b/n the bridge and Beli Manastir?


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## theAlien

^^
Next to Beli Manastir (motorway junction) ... The section near the bridge is already in the final phase


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## The Wild Boy

So i was looking on the map around the Istria region, and i found this large bridge called Mirna.








Mirna Brücke · Most Mirna, 52466, Poreč, Croatia


★★★★★ · Bridge




goo.gl




It's on the A9 motorway. Are there any plans to build the other part of the bridge?
Infact the entire A9 is weird. Some parts are not even full motorway (one side is with hard shoulders, and one isn't), and some parts are just 1+1 roads but satellite shows some construction work there.

Only remaining part i can see is towards Portoros (Slovenia) but there's no visible work from both sides.
Where will remaining A9 go once Slovenia builds it's motorway to connect to the Croatian A9? Currently A9 ends in a roundabout near Plovanija village, and i assume they would have to build a new border crossing?

Another thing i see is that Croatia has another motorway to Slovenia (A7), which is also not connected to the Slovenian Motorway network.


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## Puležan

The Wild Boy said:


> So i was looking on the map around the Istria region, and i found this large bridge called Mirna.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mirna Brücke · Most Mirna, 52466, Poreč, Croatia
> 
> 
> ★★★★★ · Bridge
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goo.gl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's on the A9 motorway. Are there any plans to build the other part of the bridge?


Yes, the parallel bridge will be built, but it's not a priority, since there aren't big traffic jams and there are other motorway sections which need to be built first (e.g. A8 which is under the same concession contract as A9). Also, the bridge is very expensive because it's pilots float deep in boggy terrain (the solid rock is too deep to reach it). 



The Wild Boy said:


> Infact the entire A9 is weird. Some parts are not even full motorway (one side is with hard shoulders, and one isn't), and some parts are just 1+1 roads but satellite shows some construction work there.
> 
> Only remaining part i can see is towards Portoros (Slovenia) but there's no visible work from both sides.
> Where will remaining A9 go once Slovenia builds it's motorway to connect to the Croatian A9? Currently A9 ends in a roundabout near Plovanija village, and i assume they would have to build a new border crossing?
> 
> Another thing i see is that Croatia has another motorway to Slovenia (A7), which is also not connected to the Slovenian Motorway network.


A9 is practically finished, in terms of length. Only remaining section is the very end towards the SLO border, but it will not go towards Portorož, but towards Dragonja village and Koper. Slovenia is planning to connect to it with H5 expressway. On the south A9 ends at Pula interchange, after that there's a very high-standard county road (with roundabouts) towards Medulin, Pomer and Premantura which was never planned to be a motorway. 

Old carriageway (southbound) of A9 is without hard shoulder because it was first planned as an 2x2 expressway (brza cesta) and was firstly built as an half-profile expressway (1x2), and only later the decision was made to build a full profile motorway (autocesta). After all sections of A8 and A9 are finished, they will add hard shoulder on the missing sections. There are no 1+1 sections on A9, except the mentioned Mirna bridge and Limska draga viaduct near Kanfanar interchange (A8/A9). 

Regarding the construction sites you've mentioned, I assume you are talking about A8 from Pazin/Cerovlje towards Učka tunnel and Rijeka. They are building the second carriageway of A8 and the plan is to open it from Cerovlje to Učka tunnel before the summer.

As far as A7 is concerned, there were numerous discussions on HR and SLO forums about the route in Slovenia, so you can check it yourself. They plan to build a motorway/expressway towards Postojna, but it's not a priority.


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## Puležan

A8 construction from Učka tunnel to Cerovlje (building of the second carriageway)


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## theAlien

Pelješac bridge construction update (April 9, 2021)


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## theAlien

the Peljesac bridge .. right now (live snapshot)


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## zvonko

povezanahrvatska.eu or ssc.heliohost.us


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## YLLIRICON

theAlien said:


> the Peljesac bridge .. right now (live snapshot)
> 
> View attachment 1416843


I am happy to see the bridge is taking form! One less border 😃


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## KHS




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## zezi

Nikola Vilić/Cropix


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## kokomo

So nice that bridge!
Any expectations regarding when it would be open to traffic?


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## theAlien

kokomo said:


> Any expectations regarding when it would be open to traffic?


Not before the summer of 2022.
The bridge itself will be completed in early 2022.


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## Puležan

A8 construction update



Puležan said:


> Malo A8 iz vožnje, slike nisu najbolje, ali čisto da se vidi napredak.
> 
> Istočni portal
> View attachment 1564704
> 
> Na zapadnom portalu privremeni kružni tok (sav promet ulazi/izlazi preko južnog/zapadnog kraka)
> View attachment 1564710
> 
> View attachment 1564712
> 
> Dalje prema Lupoglavu su radovi uznapredovali, stavlja se i prvi sloj asfalta
> View attachment 1564722
> 
> View attachment 1564724
> 
> Djelomično se vozi po novom kolniku koji je ovdje na sjevernoj strani
> View attachment 1564725
> 
> A na ovom mjestu kod starog potpornog zida je prijelaz - tu se novi kolnik (smjer Rijeka-Pula) spaja na stari, a novi (smjer Pula-Rijeka) ide južno
> View attachment 1564728
> 
> Vijadukt Dolenja Vas, novi je u blažem zavoju
> View attachment 1564729


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## Puležan

Puležan said:


> Stari usjek prije vijadukta Mrzlići je zatrpan
> View attachment 1564744
> 
> View attachment 1564746
> 
> PUO Rebri i budući sadržaji
> View attachment 1564747
> 
> Na starom kolniku se grade SOS ugibališta
> View attachment 1564748
> 
> Djelomično se vozi po novom kolniku
> View attachment 1564750
> 
> View attachment 1564751
> 
> View attachment 1564753
> 
> View attachment 1564755
> 
> View attachment 1564756


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## zvonko

Full images:



Puležan said:


> Malo A8 iz vožnje, slike nisu najbolje, ali čisto da se vidi napredak.
> 
> Istočni portal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Na zapadnom portalu privremeni kružni tok (sav promet ulazi/izlazi preko južnog/zapadnog kraka)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dalje prema Lupoglavu su radovi uznapredovali, stavlja se i prvi sloj asfalta
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> Djelomično se vozi po novom kolniku koji je ovdje na sjevernoj strani
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A na ovom mjestu kod starog potpornog zida je prijelaz - tu se novi kolnik (smjer Rijeka-Pula) spaja na stari, a novi (smjer Pula-Rijeka) ide južno
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vijadukt Dolenja Vas, novi je u blažem zavoju


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## zvonko

Full images #2:



Puležan said:


> Stari usjek prije vijadukta Mrzlići je zatrpan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PUO Rebri i budući sadržaji
> 
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> 
> Na starom kolniku se grade SOS ugibališta
> 
> 
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> Djelomično se vozi po novom kolniku


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## kokomo

I really loved my experience in Croatia, such a delightful land and warm people, so I am looking forward to the opening of the Peljesac bridge and can bypass that boring and timeconsuming customs process at the Naum strip. Well done!


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## zezi

Tunnel Učka, A8, second tube


vozilo said:


> Tunel Učka - zapadni portal (Istra)
> 
> Predusjek je završen i krenuli su s bušenjem, ovih dana će se postaviti prve remenate.
> 
> View attachment 1574132
> 
> 
> View attachment 1574134
> 
> 
> View attachment 1574135
> 
> 
> View attachment 1574138
> 
> 
> Tunel Učka - istočni portal (portal Kvarner)
> 
> Čisti se okolni teren i radi se na predusjeku.
> 
> View attachment 1574139
> 
> 
> View attachment 1574148
> 
> 
> View attachment 1574151
> 
> 
> View attachment 1574153


----------



## alserrod

What is estimated date for opening?
BTW, is it located on east or west of current tunnel?

I crossed it several times within a week

Another hint, will it be any solution for Opatija exit with traffic lights?








Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.com


----------



## zezi

alserrod said:


> What is estimated date for opening?
> BTW, is it located on east or west of current tunnel?
> 
> I crossed it several times within a week
> 
> Another hint, will it be any solution for Opatija exit with traffic lights?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google Maps
> 
> 
> Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com


1. Summer 2024.
2. North 
3. Yes, one day. It is in plans, but no fixed date so far.


----------



## KHS

Pelješac bridge project


----------



## zezi




----------



## threo2k

I dont want to sound negative: but peljesac bridge does NOT excite me at all. The one thing that USED to excite me was the dream we were sold about the future A1highway to dubrovnik through Neum, which probably never will happen  

Now we all sit here with a bridge..


----------



## Pitchoune

The A1 will probably eventually follow a route Split-Mostar-Trebinje (with an exit towards Dubrovnik)-Podgorica. Which looks like the best solution.

Is there any plan by Slovenia to build highways connecting Rijeka to Trieste and Ljubljana ? This also looks like an important missing corridor for Croatia.


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## stickedy

Here you can see the Croatian plans towards Dubrovnik: OpenStreetMap Deutschland: Karte

Slovenia has several ideas about the connection, but afaik neither a decision was made nor a timeline was set.


----------



## r0k

Latest info about Postojna - Jelsane motorway.









Work on Postojna-Jelšane Motorway to Start After 2030


STA, 9 November 2020 - The construction of a motorway between Postojna and Jelšane, for which the government recently launched procedures for the national zoning plan, will start after 2030, the national motorway company DARS said on Monday. The zoning plan is to be adopted at the end of 2027...




www.total-slovenia-news.com


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## stickedy

Maybe, until then, Rijeka bypass is also finished


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## zezi

Tunnel Učka, A8, second tube, western entrance


----------



## g.spinoza

Upgrade to full motorway status has been completed and opened today on the A8 between Lupoglav and Cerovlje, 13 km total, at a cost of 1.5 billion kuna (~200 M€).









Ypsilon istriana: apre la doppia corsia di 13 km Cerreto-Lupogliano (foto)


Viaggiare sulla Ypsilon istriana da oggi, lunedì 26 luglio, diventa più comodo. È stato il premier Andrej Plenković, a inaugurare i 13 chilometri della seconda corsia tra Cerreto (Cerovlje) e…




lavoce.hr


----------



## zezi

Pelješac bridge




This evening (28.07.2021) last steel segment, 165 total, will be mounted (welded), so bridge span will be completed.
Due to heat and termal expansion of steel, mounting and welding of segments is done in the night.


----------



## Puležan

Live stream


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## The Wild Boy

Congrats for the finished bridge, at this rate they will do it even quicker than the fast road connection lol.

Once this bridge gets asphalted, will it have a temporary connection? Where it will connect with A1, by what road?

Also now what's next megaproject for Croatia after this? Adriatic - Ionian (remaining parts do Dubrovnik and border with Montenegro, etc...) Motorway, Rijeka Outer Bypass, or?

*Excluding A8 because it's U/C (Reconstruction / Expansion)


----------



## theAlien

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=859687051322735


----------



## Puležan

The Wild Boy said:


> Congrats for the finished bridge, at this rate they will do it even quicker than the fast road connection lol.
> 
> Once this bridge gets asphalted, will it have a temporary connection? Where it will connect with A1, by what road?


You can see the plan on the map: 

green - existing motorway
orange - Pelješac bridge and connecting 1x2 expressway (UC now)
dark blue - planned extension of A1 motorway
light blue - planned connecting expressway from future A1 to Pelješac expressway
grey - planned A1 connection to and from BIH border










Dark blue and light blue sections are planned to be built first, but I don't know when. It's not that important because the current D8 state road from Ploče (where you have an expressway connection to A1) to Pelješac bridge is ok. 



> Also now what's next megaproject for Croatia after this? Adriatic - Ionian (remaining parts do Dubrovnik and border with Montenegro, etc...) Motorway, Rijeka Outer Bypass, or?
> 
> *Excluding A8 because it's U/C (Reconstruction / Expansion)


I would say A7 from Rijeka to Žuta Lokva. At the moment, there is a tender procedure for the bypass of Novi Vinodolski which will be built first as a half profile. After that, the Vratnik tunnel through Velebit and connection of all those sections. Probably everything in half profile at first.


----------



## The Wild Boy

So what are the chances of the fast road to the Dubrovnik Airport to become a motorway as part of the Adriatic - Ionian Motorway project? As i know, this plan lies well with the Montenegro's coastal express road plan. There's only a small section after the Dubrovnik Airport to the border with Montenegro left. 
Are there plans to continue the fast road to the border with Montenegro, or after Interchange Osojnik to the border with Montenegro to be motorway instead of fast road? 

The need for a motorway or an express road connecting Croatia and Montenegro though the coastline is slowly going to become a reality, as Montenegro aims to join the European union, and that would make an even further use of the Peljesač Bridge, and the roads from Dubrovnik all the way to the border with Montenegro, i assume. 

Maybe it could be built as half profile motorway to the border with Montenegro, and then later upgraded as / if the need rises. 

I'm sure that if "tomorrow" Montenegro joins EU and enters Schengen zone, a lot of people will bypass Bosnia, drive though the Peljesac bridge, and then though bypassing Dubrovnik enter Montenegro. 

Only now i see how big the need for an Adriatic - Ionian Motorway is, and how it could benefit both nations. 
Sure, Montenegro has put the motorway plans about that project on hold, and is focusing on the coastal express road first, and that's a valid and reasonable choice given that in reality no one will use the motorway from Bosnia to go to Montenegro, as if Montenegro enters EU and Schengen. 


Now from what i can see, the fast road ends here:









And as i got told from a friend, apparently they have plans (once they finish all this thing you showed) to extend this orange fast road, turn it into a motorway, and it would connect to this border:








Debeli Brijeg · Sutorina 20218, Montenegro


★★★★☆ · Mountain peak




goo.gl





Here's an older map of Montenegro's plans for the coastal express road:








Despite being old, it shows a connection to Croatia, near Herceg Novi. If that is correct, then it lines up with what my friend has shown me, about the future road connection ( motorway / fast road) from Croatia's side to the border with Montenegro at Debeli Brijeg. 

Well unless they choose a different route for the motorway / fast road to connect to the border with Montenegro. 

And once again, i see there's a thread for the Adriatic Ionian Motorway:








Adriatic-Ionian motorway


Here, nikolas, it's all yours!




www.skyscrapercity.com





In a several years from now, there will be plenty of discussion about this motorway project, as both Croatia and Montenegro are gearing up to finish important parts of this project, and so is Albania on the longer term. So to avoid all that chaos, confusion and what not i once again ask for either the old thread to be opened, or a new one to be made. It will help a lot, especially one won't have to go in each country's thread to discuss specifically, and then go a bit off - topic because it involves other countries as well. With a dedicated thread for this project, we could all discuss about it in general. 

Aside from all these projects that i see, A8, A7, some bypasses here and there, A11, Some express roads near A2, and that would br pretty much it for Croatia. After finishing all those projects, there wouldn't be much left to do. That's nice. Croatia has come a very long way.


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## Puležan

🔼As for now, it's not planned for the expressway to continue from Dubrovnik airport to the MNE border. And definitely there won't be a proper motorway because A1 will exit Croatia and enter BIH before Dubrovnik (you can see "čvor"/junction Osojnik on the map above).

Regarding other projects, besides A7, A8 and A11, there is also a number of other projects, such as continuation of D12 expressway from Bjelovar to Virovitica, expressway from Marija Bistrica to Sesvete, D2 expressway along D2 state road (podravska magistrala)...


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## stickedy

Ah, thanks!

Are there any plans to upgrade D70 towards the motorway? The road is not really good from Gato to the motorway.


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## keber

Are there any plans to upgrade A1 between Bosiljevo and Maslenica? I doubt there is more than 10% of the route that has original speed limit of 130 km/h, mostly because bad pavement sections or pavement being partially or fully tilted to right side in left turns. Even on the flat section between Gospić and Gornja Ploča exits there are some 120 km/h sections which is absurd. 
There are also many 80 or even 60 km/h sections, because some parts of side crashbarriers are deformed because of past accidents. 

I know that police does not sanction drivers going less than 130 or even 150 km/h but it is really stupid to have numerous speed limits on otherwise good motorway (which is, admittely, slowly showing its age).


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## kokomo

such a gorgeous place Omis! Next time


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## zezi

stickedy said:


> Ah, thanks!
> 
> Are there any plans to upgrade D70 towards the motorway? The road is not really good from Gato to the motorway.


No.
They ( Hrvatske ceste) will probably start scratching their heads when traffic increases, wondering what happened. 

P.S. *Gata* not Gato




keber said:


> Are there any plans to upgrade A1 between Bosiljevo and Maslenica? I doubt there is more than 10% of the route that has original speed limit of 130 km/h, mostly because bad pavement sections or pavement being partially or fully tilted to right side in left turns. Even on the flat section between Gospić and Gornja Ploča exits there are some 120 km/h sections which is absurd.
> There are also many 80 or even 60 km/h sections, because some parts of side crashbarriers are deformed because of past accidents.
> 
> I know that police does not sanction drivers going less than 130 or even 150 km/h but it is really stupid to have numerous speed limits on otherwise good motorway (which is, admittely, slowly showing its age).


No. We just ignore traffic sings, when road is dry.
80 or 60 are only on sections under construction.


----------



## keber

There were at least 10, if not 15 non-construction 80 km/h zones last Friday between Bosiljevo and Maslenica, apparently just because of some damaged crash barriers. I've seen similar (just) 60 km/h speed limits on Istrian Y. 
Of course, because of absurd speed limit after another absurd speed limit, nobody follows them. As a consequence, nobody followed speed limits in construction zones with workers on site, most were driving 130 km/h or more. 
It is worth mentioning, that after Maslenica those absurd speed limits were mostly gone.


----------



## Nowax

Car crash on A1 near Brinja , 11 years old children die 🙏 RIP


















Objavljen novi stravičan detalj nesreće na A1 kod Brinja u kojoj je poginulo dijete: Poljaci stajali u desnoj traci


Objavljeni su novi detalji nesreće na A1. Došlo je do sudara kamiona s osobnim automobilom na 117. kilometru autoceste kroz Liku, u kojem je poginulo 10-godišnje dijete iz Poljske.




dnevnik.hr


----------



## x-type

keber said:


> There were at least 10, if not 15 non-construction 80 km/h zones last Friday between Bosiljevo and Maslenica, apparently just because of some damaged crash barriers. I've seen similar (just) 60 km/h speed limits on Istrian Y.
> Of course, because of absurd speed limit after another absurd speed limit, nobody follows them. As a consequence, nobody followed speed limits in construction zones with workers on site, most were driving 130 km/h or more.
> It is worth mentioning, that after Maslenica those absurd speed limits were mostly gone.


Just stupid laws which are protecting road authorities. Nothing for safety, just to prevent eventual parties in accidents to sew them.


----------



## x-type

Nowax said:


> Car crash on A1 near Brinja , 11 years old children die 🙏 RIP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Objavljen novi stravičan detalj nesreće na A1 kod Brinja u kojoj je poginulo dijete: Poljaci stajali u desnoj traci
> 
> 
> Objavljeni su novi detalji nesreće na A1. Došlo je do sudara kamiona s osobnim automobilom na 117. kilometru autoceste kroz Liku, u kojem je poginulo 10-godišnje dijete iz Poljske.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dnevnik.hr


Unfortunately, many rules were ignored here. Car was stopped in driving lane, people remained inside instead of going out on the other side of crash barrier. Bosnian truck driver was phoning in the moment of accident.


----------



## AθΕνΙαΝ

I've never seen any footage of the construction of Ston bypass and bridge as part of the access road to the peljesac bridge. Could anyone help out?


----------



## FiveYears

AθΕνΙαΝ said:


> I've never seen any footage of the construction of Ston bypass and bridge as part of the access road to the peljesac bridge. Could anyone help out?











FOTO/OBIŠLI SMO GRADILIŠTE NA PELJEŠCU: Grci tvrde da će radove završiti na vrijeme, a evo zašto traže za trećinu više novca od ugovorenog


Pelješki most je spojen, a kako stojimo s pristupnim cestama? Stručnjaci za cestogradnju uvjeravaju nas da će austrijski Strabag na vrijeme završiti dionicu od Komarne do Zaradeža (Sparagovića) ...




dubrovacki.slobodnadalmacija.hr





Perhaps this article could help you..


----------



## zezi

AθΕνΙαΝ said:


> I've never seen any footage of the construction of Ston bypass and bridge as part of the access road to the peljesac bridge. Could anyone help out?


----------



## zezi

AθΕνΙαΝ said:


> I've never seen any footage of the construction of Ston bypass and bridge as part of the access road to the peljesac bridge. Could anyone help out?


New video


----------



## AθΕνΙαΝ

This is a stunning bridge, I love it  . It has a clearance below of 55 meters which is 3 more than the Rion-Antirion bridge!


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## Lankosher

2 days ago I did some drone pictures of this wonderful bridge, I have also made a short film but will show it in some days as soon as I process it.


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## threo2k

This boring peljesac bridge.. never understood the hype about it. Should just have built A1 through neum.

And yes, i will always cry and moan about this


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## tfd543

It looks ordinary to me, but it Will be useful.. nothin spectacular itself, but the view is great if you dare to stop in the middle and shoot some pics.


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## theAlien

threo2k said:


> Should just have built A1 through neum.


If Neum was the territory of Croatia ... it would probably be built. But it is not.


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## AθΕνΙαΝ

So the legendary Adriatic-Ionian highway will have to eventually go through BiH.










I believe this branching off of the A1 in BiH to be the projected future extension towards the MNE border and natural continuation of the A-I highway.


----------



## MichiH

AθΕνΙαΝ said:


> So the legendary Adriatic-Ionian highway will have to eventually go through BiH.
> 
> View attachment 2084537
> 
> 
> I believe this branching off of the A1 in BiH to be the projected future extension towards the MNE border and natural continuation of the A-I highway.
> 
> View attachment 2084564


The interchange is already u/c: Sentinel-hub Playground


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## theAlien

AθΕνΙαΝ said:


> So the legendary Adriatic-Ionian highway will have to eventually go through BiH.
> I believe this branching off of the A1 in BiH to be the projected future extension towards the MNE border and natural continuation of the A-I highway.


The legendary Adriatic-Ionian highway is a really so far future ... and so far and completely uncertain one.
Before Bosnia and Montenegro becomes a full member of the EU ... impossible. The question now is ever or never


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## MichiH

theAlien said:


> The legendary Adriatic-Ionian highway is a really so far future ... and so far and completely uncertain one.
> Before Bosnia and Montenegro becomes a full member of the EU ... impossible. The question now is ever or never


What's the story behind that interchange *u/c*?


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## theAlien

^^
That interchange is planned during the construction of the section Pocitelj-Zvirovici (corridor 5c motorway) as a interchange for the continuation towards Montenegro (part of the so-called Adriatic-Ionian highway) .. but further plans or projects for the construction of the motorway in that direction do not exist at this time .. in fact nothing, not even a conceptual plan.
Of course, this plan cannot be realized without cooperation with Montenegro .. but Montenegro currently has other plans for road connections with Croatia.


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## MichiH

nothing, except of an interchange to nowhere under construction


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## The Wild Boy

theAlien said:


> ^^
> That interchange is planned during the construction of the section Pocitelj-Zvirovici (corridor 5c motorway) as a interchange for the continuation towards Montenegro (part of the so-called Adriatic-Ionian highway) .. but further plans or projects for the construction of the motorway in that direction do not exist at this time .. in fact nothing, not even a conceptual plan.
> Of course, this plan cannot be realized without cooperation with Montenegro .. but Montenegro currently has other plans for road connections with Croatia.


That's what I have been saying this whole time. It's just an useless motorway project and a waste of money.


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## kokomo

When it is supposed to be finished the Peljesac bridge? Open to traffic that is.
I agree it is no fancy bridge, but extremely useful


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## zezi

kokomo said:


> When it is supposed to be finished the Peljesac bridge? Open to traffic that is.
> I agree it is no fancy bridge, but extremely useful


Spring or summer 2022. Peljesac expressway is U/C, and bridge can not be opened for traffic before expressway is finished (at least one part). So we are waiting for roads.
Bridge is very beautiful when you see it live.


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## Adamus!

zezi said:


> Spring or summer 2022. Peljesac expressway is U/C, and bridge can not be opened for traffic before expressway is finished (at least one part). So we are waiting for roads.
> Bridge is very beautiful when you see it live.


I saw Peljesac expressway U/C one month ago during my holidays on Korčula, there are still a lots of work to do... I`m not sure if whey`d finished it before next summer...


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## kokomo

zezi said:


> Spring or summer 2022. Peljesac expressway is U/C, and bridge can not be opened for traffic before expressway is finished (at least one part). So we are waiting for roads.
> Bridge is very beautiful when you see it live.


Thanks! And how is the construction of such expressway (2+2) doing? 
I mean, is it still moving soil or are they more advanced?


----------



## zezi

kokomo said:


> Thanks! And how is the construction of such expressway (2+2) doing?
> I mean, is it still moving soil or are they more advanced?


It is 1+1 expressway only. And there is no soil there, pure stone, and they are still breaking stones. Check the video on the last page.



Adamus! said:


> I saw Peljesac expressway U/C one month ago during my holidays on Korčula, there are still a lots of work to do... I`m not sure if whey`d finished it before next summer...


Like I said, for bridge, only part of expressway have to be finished, existing roads can be used temporary. So next summer bridge will be used for sure.


----------



## Eulanthe

threo2k said:


> This boring peljesac bridge.. never understood the hype about it. Should just have built A1 through neum.
> 
> And yes, i will always cry and moan about this


It wasn't impossible to sort out access through BiH too. They could have built a cut-and-cover 5km tunnel with a joint HR-BiH border crossing at a Neum exit to the M17.3, monitored with cameras from two facilities at either side of the tunnel. Any suspicious behaviour within the tunnel could have been recorded, and if someone needed checked, it could be done at either side of the tunnel within RH territory. 

Traffic would then be able to head through the tunnel without stopping if they were in transit, or they would go through border control if they exited onto the M17.3. 

There was an issue with the 'free access to the Port of Ploce', but this could have been solved by fitting a kind of 'tracking seal' to trucks in Nova Sela, with trucks given a set amount of time to reach the port.

Unfortunately, I don't think either side necessarily wanted it. Croatia wanted to discourage people from going anywhere near Neum, while BiH has every interest in keeping Neum as the shortest possible route so that people spend money there.


----------



## ntom

You're all talking like it's completely fine for one country to cede rights to another and go on and propose all kinds of solutions. Please stop doing this. A motorway will be built in the Neum stretch if BiH agrees and is useful to it and that's the end of it.

The bridge was a matter of national security for Croatia and would've been built no matter what.


----------



## g.spinoza

Nice long article on Italian newspaper "La Repubblica" about the bridge. It talks very little about the bridge per se, but a lot about what it means to Croatia, to the European future of Bosnia-Hercegovina and the politics behind it:









Un ponte cancella la Bosnia


Il Pelješki Most scavalca la costa dell’Erzegovina e riunisce la Croazia. Finanziato dalla Ue e costruito dai cinesi, firma l’emarginazione …




www.repubblica.it


----------



## tfd543

g.spinoza said:


> Nice long article on Italian newspaper "La Repubblica" about the bridge. It talks very little about the bridge per se, but a lot about what it means to Croatia, to the European future of Bosnia-Hercegovina and the politics behind it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Un ponte cancella la Bosnia
> 
> 
> Il Pelješki Most scavalca la costa dell’Erzegovina e riunisce la Croazia. Finanziato dalla Ue e costruito dai cinesi, firma l’emarginazione …
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.repubblica.it


So what so they say? I know, i cant read italian.

I think Its too hyped. A bridge wont do wonder to an EU path of a country.. just in theory.. we want to see reforms that are enacted AND implemented..

Whats their arguments ??


----------



## x-type

The bridge should temporarly be opened in March 2022, and Pelješac expressroad should be opened in the summer 2022 (July if I remember well).


----------



## g.spinoza

tfd543 said:


> So what so they say? I know, i cant read italian.
> 
> I think Its too hyped. A bridge wont do wonder to an EU path of a country.. just in theory.. we want to see reforms that are enacted AND implemented..
> 
> Whats their arguments ??


They basically say that this bridge is the symbol of Bosnia giving up its dreams of ever becoming part of EU: leaders of Croats and Serbs of BiH both applauded to this project, rather than frown upon it, as a sign that they do not care their country is cut out. The Bosnian Croat leader was even present at the "last brick" ceremony.
Some interviews to Croat Bosnian people of Neum: they were happy even if that means less business for them. The municipal house in Neum even displays the Croatian flag instead of the BiH one, as a sign that the country won't last long.


----------



## Verso

g.spinoza said:


> leaders of Croats and Serbs of BiH both applauded to this project, rather than frown upon it, as a sign that they do not care their country is cut out. The Bosnian Croat leader was even present at the "last brick" ceremony.
> Some interviews to Croat Bosnian people of Neum: they were happy even if that means less business for them.


That's not just nationalistic, it's plain stupid. Why would you cheer about being cut out and having less business? It doesn't matter if you like living in BIH or not, fact is that it's your country and there's no reason for cheering when Croatia gets advantage over BIH. Would they rather see if EU gave a billion euros to Neum or Croatia? They would be stupid to say Croatia.


----------



## zezi

It is never black and white thing. For example: Neum will have less traffic , but that is transit traffic. Transit traffic is good for shops, gas stations, even restaurants (usually cheaper ones). But for residents, hotels, turist apartment owners, will be better for Neum to be quieter place without summer traffic jams and long queues at the border...
This is only one example of change, there are much more different aspects.
Maybe in 100 years bridge will no more be needed, and will be demolished.


----------



## g.spinoza

Verso said:


> That's not just nationalistic, it's plain stupid. Why would you cheer about being cut out and having less business? It doesn't matter if you like living in BIH or not, fact is that it's your country and there's no reason for cheering when Croatia gets advantage over BIH. Would they rather see if EU gave a billion euros to Neum or Croatia? They would be stupid to say Croatia.


The whole point of the article is that nobody, in Croatia or in Neum, see Bosnia-Hercegovina surviving the next few years. Apparently people in Neum don't care about BiH and just wait for (re)uniting with Croatia.


----------



## Verso

zezi said:


> It is never black and white thing. For example: Neum will have less traffic , but that is transit traffic. Transit traffic is good for shops, gas stations, even restaurants (usually cheaper ones). But for residents, hotels, turist apartment owners, will be better for Neum to be quieter place without summer traffic jams and long queues at the border...
> This is only one example of change, there are much more different aspects.
> Maybe in 100 years bridge will no more be needed, and will be demolished.


You're right, most people don't like transit traffic running next to their houses, but then they should build a bypass (in BIH, not HR) or even better, they should've pushed for a motorway corridor through BIH (and I don't see why Sarajevo would be against it).



g.spinoza said:


> The whole point of the article is that nobody, in Croatia or in Neum, see Bosnia-Hercegovina surviving the next few years. Apparently people in Neum don't care about BiH and just wait for (re)uniting with Croatia.


If they think Neum will soon be in Croatia, then it's even more stupid to cheer about bypassing Neum with a bridge so far away instead of having a straight motorway much closer (and I don't mean right next to houses). People of Neum will never even use that bridge.


----------



## tfd543

g.spinoza said:


> The whole point of the article is that nobody, in Croatia or in Neum, see Bosnia-Hercegovina surviving the next few years. Apparently people in Neum don't care about BiH and just wait for (re)uniting with Croatia.


Thats conversations for children. And No Its not re-uniting. Neum was never part of republic of cro.

Btw that wont happen ever. There is a reason why it has survived since 1992. This is the last thing the EU wants. 

Things Will change when A1 is built across bih.


----------



## zezi

With my post I was refering to your sentence


Verso said:


> Why would you cheer about being cut out and having less business?


----------


Verso said:


> You're right, most people don't like transit traffic running next to their houses, but then they should build a bypass (in BIH, not HR) or even better, they should've pushed for a motorway corridor through BIH (and I don't see why Sarajevo would be against it).


Ordinary people dont decide about bypass or motorway. They can only be satisfied or dissatisfied with goverment and its politics. So it is not fair when you judge locals for being happy with the bridge. Everyone has its own reasons.
And by the way, still 30 years after BiH independence, Neum still doesnt have proper road to rest of BIH (next year will be finished).


----------



## theAlien

Probably because of the aforementioned newspaper article, the discussion went in the wrong direction.
Neum is not isolated because of the Peljesac bridge, and this can be seen from the tourist figures this year, even last year which was fatal to many tourist places due to the Covid crisis .. in Neum they were satisfied both last year and this year .. we are not talking about transit passengers but about tourists and the number of overnight stays.
Let's not forget that this is a place with a little more than 3000 inhabitants.
Furthermore, the new and modern main road in the length of 36 km is almost completed (in the spring of next year) which connects Neum directly within the BiH hinterland. (see photo) .. and this considerably increases the tourist perspective and transport opportunities from the other side.









There are already plans to connect this road directly with the motorway in Pocitelj (corridor 5c) .. (see below) .. by building a road in half profile along the route of the planned Adriatic-Ionian highway.









If all this were to take place, this route would also be the most acceptable for the eastern part of Croatia towards the southern part of the coast (Dubrovnik region).

The story about the construction of a highway through Neum instead of a bridge is just pure nonsense ... because such a highway would be* locked* exclusively for transit from one end of Croatia to the other, without the possibility of turning into Neum .. just in such solution Neum would be isolated.
NB. And of course, 98% of the inhabitants of the region and the town of Neum are Croats .. why is it strange that they love Croatia and its flag


----------



## MichiH

Italian media makes politics in Balkans


----------



## Robertkc

Is there any news about agreement between Croatia and the EU with regards to Covid stimulus funding for road (and other transport) infrastructure yet?


----------



## theAlien

^^
_The Recovery and Resilience Facility_ (RRF) has long been approved by the EU for Croatia (July 8, 2021) ... the first tranche has already been paid (818,4 mil. euros of the total approved amount of 6.14 billion euros). In addition to this financial assistance, the amount of 3.6 billion euros in the form of favorable loans was approved.

Of that, investments in the amount of HRK 5.5 billion (approximately 730 mil. euros) are planned for the "Development of a competitive, energy sustainable and efficient transport system".

If you were thinking of concrete investments in the construction of road infrastructure, then very little or almost nothing is planned for this area (only for the new _Electronic Toll Collection System_, approximately 70 mil. euros).

There is a reform of the transport sector that includes reforms of the railway, road and air sectors, as well as the reform of maritime and inland waterways. In addition to the modernization of railways and the reconstruction of some sections, the construction of 30 km of railways, modernization of ports open to public transport, procurement of new passenger ships for coastal liner traffic and renewal of the inland fleet are planned.

 Here  you have a brief summary of the complete investments in the transport sector (unfortunately only in Croatian ).


----------



## Robertkc

theAlien said:


> Here  you have a brief summary of the complete investments in the transport sector (unfortunately only in Croatian ).


Very helpful - thank you!


----------



## Lankosher

Pelješki most / Pelješac Bridge - I hope you're gonna like it


----------



## kokomo

I can't help but still fall in love with the Dalmatian coast


----------



## x-type

There are strong rumours that Italian Telepass wants to make their devices compatible with Croatian ENC and vice versa. They don't want to wait this failed project of unified toll system in whole EU. 
Someone might ask about new toll collection system that is about to be presented within 2 years - it will be the same system as Italy has on A36, probably in whole Italy in future, so it should be good deal.

Google translated article from Jutarnji List.








S jednim ENC-om kroz 4 države EU: Talijani se žele uključiti u naplaćivanje cestarine u RH


Prema novom zakonu, HAC bi Telepassu plaćao naknadu za pružanje usluge EENC-a, a još nije određeno koliku




www-jutarnji-hr.translate.goog


----------



## g.spinoza

x-type said:


> They don't want to wait this failed project of unified toll system in whole EU.


Or maybe they want to anticipate this by presenting a viable and functioning system.
I'm not sure the unified EU toll system is a failed project. It may take longer than anticipated, but I think in the end it will be implemented.
Just think about how long did it take to have the cell phone data roaming implemented.


----------



## x-type

g.spinoza said:


> Or maybe they want to anticipate this by presenting a viable and functioning system.
> I'm not sure the unified EU toll system is a failed project. It may take longer than anticipated, but I think in the end it will be implemented.
> Just think about how long did it take to have the cell phone data roaming implemented.


I don't know, many countries are presenting various ways of tolling and investing large amounts into those. It wouldn't be the best solution to change them few years after.


----------



## The Wild Boy

I'm hearing that there's plans of Zagreb motorway bypass to be widened to 6 lanes. How far has that project developed? Anything official of when it will happen. 

The reality is that most of the traffic jams there happen because of toll booths. They should just get rid of the toll booths there nearby, and there should be no problem with traffic (a friend from Croatia told me that most traffic jams on ZG bypass were just only because of the toll booths). 

And yeah this automatic toll booth system should help a lot when it gets implemented, but i still think personally that by getting rid of the tolls near Zagreb a lot of issues would be solved, and the Zagreb bypass would not even need to be widened to 6 lanes? 

There were also plans from what i could hear for a completely new 4 lane Zagreb bypass. Did that project fail? What happened with that?


----------



## eucitizen

x-type said:


> I don't know, many countries are presenting various ways of tolling and investing large amounts into those. It wouldn't be the best solution to change them few years after.


Well there are already OBUs for trucks that works in many countries. Not a lon time ago Czech rep. changed the tolll system to the one compatible with the european interoperability. Now Poland has too a new toll system. Slovakia is going to tender too a new satellite toll system for trucks. Regarding cars, the italian telepass can be already used in France, Spain and Portugal. So something is moving on.


----------



## zezi

The Wild Boy said:


> I'm hearing that there's plans of Zagreb motorway bypass to be widened to 6 lanes. How far has that project developed? Anything official of when it will happen.
> 
> The reality is that most of the traffic jams there happen because of toll booths. They should just get rid of the toll booths there nearby, and there should be no problem with traffic (a friend from Croatia told me that most traffic jams on ZG bypass were just only because of the toll booths).
> 
> And yeah this automatic toll booth system should help a lot when it gets implemented, but i still think personally that by getting rid of the tolls near Zagreb a lot of issues would be solved, and the Zagreb bypass would not even need to be widened to 6 lanes?
> 
> There were also plans from what i could hear for a completely new 4 lane Zagreb bypass. Did that project fail? What happened with that?


Completely new Zagreb bypass was abandoned.
Widening of Zagreb bypass is necessary due to lots of traffic, especially cargo traffic. We dont have jams but all 4 lanes are full all day. 
For now there is tender for design and documentation only.
Plan is for motorway to be widen in phases, starting from west to east.


----------



## Eulanthe

Can anyone tell me if this was the original end of the Zagreb-Karlovac motorway?









Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.pl


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Yes it was. Google has the 'historic imagery' option in Google Earth. It normally only shows high-resolution imagery, but if you zoom out, the base imagery becomes available from 1984 onwards. This is very low resolution but motorways constructed since 1984 are usually visible.


1994: motorway ends at Karlovac









1995: extension under construction









detail:


----------



## Eulanthe

Excellent find, thank you very much Chris!

I wonder if there were plans to continue the motorway through the centre of Karlovac, or if it would have remained as it is now? I know that the motorway was supposed to go towards Bihać, but I've never seen any plans.


----------



## The Wild Boy

Also A1 was meant to take a different route to the Croatian coastline. I remember a friend showed me some tunnels that were excavated, but I can't seem to find the location of these. It was near the border with Bosnia. I assume they had more ridiculous plans to do a straight section though the mountains, but maybe they scrapped it afterwards?


----------



## xbox36O

Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.pl





I think this was the only built part. Along the border of Bosnia and Croatia, some tunnel portals and ground works can be seen. I dont know if more than this was ever built. And I would like to know if a map or something exist of this old proposed highway (or motorway?)


----------



## zezi

xbox36O said:


> Google Maps
> 
> 
> Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.pl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think this was the only built part. Along the border of Bosnia and Croatia, some tunnel portals and ground works can be seen. I dont know if more than this was ever built. And I would like to know if a map or something exist of this old proposed highway (or motorway?)


Old plans









Plan was to pass through Una valley, from Bihać to south, along side of existing railway.


----------



## x-type

ChrisZwolle said:


> Yes it was. Google has the 'historic imagery' option in Google Earth. It normally only shows high-resolution imagery, but if you zoom out, the base imagery becomes available from 1984 onwards. This is very low resolution but motorways constructed since 1984 are usually visible.
> 
> 
> 1994: motorway ends at Karlovac
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1995: extension under construction
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> detail:


Actually, that motorway end in Karlovac was immediately built as proper exit. There was no temporary exit that was destroyed later. Even first few metres of motorway after the exit itself were built, approximately till the first meter of Drežnik viaduct. I remember concrete blocks there signing the road end, and there was large overhead sign for forbidden traffic 

Afaik there was never planned to build urban motorway through Karlovac. There was (and still is) urban expressway which was incredibly congested, real bottlneck in the summer. Not only the peaks, but during the weekdays in the suimmer as well. The rows at toll station were huge, it was not rare to wait to pay toll an hour, and to spend another hour to pass through the city. The parallel D1 road was in horrible condition, and basically it was not an option as it is today. 
The first upgrade of Karlovac exit was in late 1990es when the exit lane was doubled, and extended for 1 km, just as it exists today. It was also the preparation for A1 prolongation towards west because first stretch after Karlovac was built up to Vukova Gorica. There was a temporary exit, and it carried only traffic towards Rijeka. Split traffic was taking exit in Karlovac till 2004 (of 2003 partially when Zadar traffic started to use A1).


----------



## ntom

An lol moment at 12:56. Doku is more than a decade old apparently.


----------



## sponge_bob

You should have seen the numbers in 2000


----------



## metacatfry

Not strictly relevant to this thread but.. holy moly Norway and Switzerland halved road deaths since 2010?! How the ****.


----------



## sponge_bob

metacatfry said:


> Not strictly relevant to this thread but.. holy moly Norway and Switzerland halved road deaths since 2010?! How the ****.


Speed cameras and also more 30kph zones in urban areas most likely.


----------



## Uppsala

The motorway from the A3/E70 to the BIH-border at Svilaj has now finally gone well. It is now open to traffic.

But what about the construction of the motorway from the A3/E70 to the BIH-border at Gradiška? I also know that this motorway section is long awaited.


----------



## stickedy

There will ne no motorway, "just" a 2x2 expressway. See [HR] Croatia | road infrastructure • Ceste & Autoceste for details.

They will build the part from the bridge to interchange Novi Varos first. No construction there started according to satellite images. Upgrading of exit Okucani and connecting to that road will happen later, much later.


----------



## zezi

stickedy said:


> There will ne no motorway, "just" a 2x2 expressway. See [HR] Croatia | road infrastructure • Ceste & Autoceste for details.
> 
> They will build the part from the bridge to interchange Novi Varos first. No construction there started according to satellite images. Upgrading of exit Okucani and connecting to that road will happen later, much later.


Correct.
Tender procedure for that expressway (actually only for supervision of construction) has been long delayed, due to cancellation of first tender results. Now we are waiting for new tender decision, and hoping there will be no more tender results complains and cancellations. Once construction gets under way, it will take two years to complete.


----------



## Falusi

What about the A5 from Beli Manastir to the Hungarian border?

Is it tendered or not yet?


----------



## zezi

Falusi said:


> What about the A5 from Beli Manastir to the Hungarian border?
> 
> Is it tendered or not yet?


Not yet. Next year.


----------



## zezi

Pelješac bridge and new expressway:


----------



## AnelZ

That background music is annoying, had to mute it immediatelly. Those claps made me blink everytime...


----------



## threo2k

Bosnia & Hercegovina must be pissed about this bridge


----------



## theAlien

threo2k said:


> Bosnia & Hercegovina must be pissed about this bridge


Why? .. They will soon also build an imposing bridge, not far from this one .. Pocitelj bridge


----------



## zezi

AnelZ said:


> That background music is annoying, had to mute it immediatelly. Those claps made me blink everytime...


Maybe this music is more enjoyable for you


----------



## AnelZ

Well, at least I didn't blink 😁 but I felt like I'm exploring some unknown lands or playing Final Fantasy.


----------



## kokomo

theAlien said:


> Why? .. They will soon also build an imposing bridge, not far from this one .. Pocitelj bridge


And that would be were precisely?


----------



## Namibija

threo2k said:


> Bosnia & Hercegovina must be pissed about this bridge


Not at all, we are very proud that country such Croatia is, which went through the war before 30 years, today bears one of the most advanced and sophisticated road infrastructure projects in EU, such is Peljesac Bridge.

There was debate, is it okay for Croatia to put a definite seal on a dimensions of sea corridor that connects territorial waters of Bosnia and Herzegovina and international waters. 

By supporting this project, EU, confirmed that it is, and Bosnia and Herzegovina, country which have intentions to join the EU, accepted it and moved on.


----------



## The Wild Boy

Why is one side of the Zagreb - Split motorway completely closed? Is this a mistake, or?


----------



## Luki_SL

^^I don't think it's closed. I think google has some kind of problem.


----------



## zezi

From Zagreb to Split (about 400 km) only 4 tunnels have 1 side (one tube) closed (other tube have two way traffic) due to maintenance. Everything else in normal. 
So I guess Google is bit confused


----------



## bogdymol

Omiš bypass:


----------



## bzbox

bogdymol said:


> Omiš bypass:


Looks dangerous.


----------



## kokomo

but gorgeous....🤩🤩🤩🤩

when is it expected to be ready?


----------



## zezi

kokomo said:


> but gorgeous....🤩🤩🤩🤩
> 
> when is it expected to be ready?


September 2022 is official deadline. But usually all big construction work have some delay, so I think it will be finished in Q1/ 2023


----------



## kokomo

Thanks. 
Honestly, looks very daunting that timeline


----------



## belerophon

zezi said:


> September 2022 is official deadline. But usually all big construction work have some delay, so I think it will be finished in Q1/ 2023


But as far as i can see only the southern half of the bypass ist yet in construction, ending with the tunnel. The bridge has not even started, and should already be in service after just one more year?


----------



## keber

Bridge will be from several prefabricated big steel pieces, that will be lifted into place.


----------



## zezi

belerophon said:


> But as far as i can see only the southern half of the bypass ist yet in construction, ending with the tunnel. The bridge has not even started, and should already be in service after just one more year?


Bypass south of bridge was build in 2015.
Steel part of bridge is 80% finish in factory and it will come in parts, welded together, and pushed over to other side.
And they started with the bridge












North part of bypass is a tunnel + 300m of road
Tunnel inside









So what's there to do in more than one year?


----------



## x-type

Delays on the access road to Pelješac bridge are announced. The problem is with Ston bypass (eastern section, the one with 2 tunnels and the bridge inbetween) which will be late. The planned date of openning was June 2022, but it will be delayed to autumn 2022. The problem occured is little bit weird - there was huge problem of finding free barge to tow metal bridge elements from Split shipyard to the construction site. They have finally found suitable barge in Venice, but the works will be delayed (elements were planned to be towed by the end of October, but it will happen in January). Towing will be very interesting tough because the barge is 20m wide, and it will have to pass trough 22m wide place between two lighthouses. 

Original article:








Nadali smo se vožnji preko Pelješkog mosta na ljeto, ali cijelu sezonu putovat će se kroz Ston. Evo kada bi veliki projekt u potpunosti trebao biti gotov, doznajemo zašto kasni: ‘Tražili smo je dugo i širom Europe...‘


Idućeg ljeta vozit ćemo se novim pelješkim mostom i većim dijelom novih cesta na poluotoku, ali će promet kod čvora Prapratno biti premješten na staru cestu i teći će kroz Ston. Dok se u potp...




dubrovacki.slobodnadalmacija.hr


----------



## The Wild Boy

I guess Summer 2023 entire section with new access roads, link to the A1 motorway and complete bypass of Neum could be finished by then, just ready before the 2023 summer season?

Btw, when is A1 planned to be extended? After works are done with Peljesac bridge and the road there? Many have told me that A1 towards Dubrovnik, will be Croatia's hardest motorway yet to be built in it's history.

King's Landing is finally getting a new connection  And we're all excited to drive on it.


----------



## x-type

The Wild Boy said:


> I guess Summer 2023 entire section with new access roads, link to the A1 motorway and complete bypass of Neum could be finished by then, just ready before the 2023 summer season?
> 
> Btw, when is A1 planned to be extended? After works are done with Peljesac bridge and the road there? Many have told me that A1 towards Dubrovnik, will be Croatia's hardest motorway yet to be built in it's history.
> 
> King's Landing is finally getting a new connection  And we're all excited to drive on it.


A1 is planned to reach knot Pelješac, which will be placed at southernmost point of Neretva valley, some 5km NNE from northern terminus of the bridge. From there the new Pelješac expressway will continut over the bridge, penninsula, up to Doli, and then continuing towards Dubrovnik in the shape od motorway or expressway, yet to decide. 
The part between knot Pelješac and Neum is meant to be A1, but it is far future. 
Complicated or not - depends of the point of the view. Terrain requires lots of tunnels there, but the gound is solid rock. Building the road at dusty ground can be more challenging.


----------



## The Wild Boy

Does the blue segment from interchange Rudine to interchange Osojnik have a chance to be built by 2028?? Assuming that this will be a motorway, since it's part of the Adriatic - Ionian motorway project (hence why i think it has a higher chance being built as a motorway) and yellow segments will be fast / express roads.

I know that the grey segment won't come anytime soon, mainly because of the situation in Bosnia. Maybe grey segment 2030 - 2035. And the grey segment from interchange Osojnik won't make any sense to be built towards Bosnia (which will go towards Montenegro), not untill Bosnia builds their envisioned motorway to Trebinje and further to Montenegro, which won't happen to at least 2040.


----------



## Eulanthe

The Wild Boy said:


> Does the blue segment from interchange Rudine to interchange Osojnik have a chance to be built by 2028?? Assuming that this will be a motorway, since it's part of the Adriatic - Ionian motorway project (hence why i think it has a higher chance being built as a motorway) and yellow segments will be fast / express roads.


A lot depends on tourism and the recovery from the pandemic. If Croatia has 2022 like it had 2021, with serious shortages of accommodation and unbelievably expensive apartments, then there's a chance. The problem is the winter months, as Croatia (unlike Spain) is struggling to figure out how to extend the tourist season. They've only just seen tourism extend into June and September, but they really need to figure out a coherent strategy for advertising Dalmatia as a year-round tourist destination. 

Having said that, I think they could easily charge very high summer tolls between Neum and the MNE border in order to have low tolls from October until May. Tourists know how dangerous and busy the Jadranska Magistrala is, so they're not likely to avoid paying for the motorway.


----------



## theAlien

The Wild Boy said:


> Does the blue segment from interchange Rudine to interchange Osojnik have a chance to be built by 2028??


No ... this project is already planned for the phases (in the official tender that is underway) ... and for its completion (in the full profile of the highway) it is impossible to predict a serious deadline ... it is about decades, and not about years!
Depending on the annual average daily traffic (AADT) ... maybe never in full profile  
See [Croatia] - Pelješki most 2


----------



## The Wild Boy

theAlien said:


> No ... this project is already planned for the phases (in the official tender that is underway) ... and for its completion (in the full profile of the highway) it is impossible to predict a serious deadline ... it is about decades, and not about years!
> Depending on the annual average daily traffic (AADT) ... maybe never in full profile
> See [Croatia] - Pelješki most 2


Even if they build it in half profile motorway, as long as it's projected and there's space left for expansion, it shouldn't be a problem, if of course traffic levels rise and a full profile motorway connection is necessitated. 

Yeah, i can see that the authorities are not in a rush. 

At this rate the Istrian Y and it's bypass might come sooner, that completing this project as a whole all the way to Dubrovnik.


----------



## xbox36O

Whats the plan here? 

Will it be a new road that connects to Peljesac bridge?









Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.se


----------



## sponge_bob

Spain does that on the AP7 west of Malaga. If they put the excess profits back into the med motorway only it would be a good idea.



Eulanthe said:


> Having said that, I think they could easily charge very high summer tolls between Neum and the MNE border


Sadly The EU removed the Adriatic coastal motorway from the EU Core routes from now on.  It will be harder to fund it from Europe.


----------



## krzysiek997

xbox36O said:


> Whats the plan here?
> 
> Will it be a new road that connects to Peljesac bridge?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google Maps
> 
> 
> Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.se


Src: Osm.de. Id call it expressway connector to Peliesac Bridge


----------



## belerophon

zezi said:


> Bypass south of bridge was build in 2015.
> Steel part of bridge is 80% finish in factory and it will come in parts, welded together, and pushed over to other side.
> And they started with the bridge
> View attachment 2523715
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> North part of bypass is a tunnel + 300m of road
> Tunnel inside
> View attachment 2523629
> 
> 
> So what's there to do in more than one year?


 I am sorry. OSM shows the northern part of bypass as planned, only the southern as u/c. And of course the pictures of the tunnel looked like that was true. So i had no reason to distrust the showing of OSM. Thanks for the correction! Merry Christmas!


----------



## zezi

belerophon said:


> I am sorry. OSM shows the northern part of bypass as planned, only the southern as u/c. And of course the pictures of the tunnel looked like that was true. So i had no reason to distrust the showing of OSM. Thanks for the correction! Merry Christmas!


So your opinion about completion was based on situation on OSM map. Well that's a first. Merry Christmas to You.


----------



## belerophon

Can you provide a map of how the bypass should look like? 

I would encourage to update OSM, but i won't do that. I contribute there, but only at places i visit myself or know very good.


----------



## x-type

belerophon said:


> Can you provide a map of how the bypass should look like?
> 
> I would encourage to update OSM, but i won't do that. I contribute there, but only at places i visit myself or know very good.


Somebody has already drawn it. It is not published yet, but if you enter the editor, you will se it there. That means it will become visible within few days.
Basically, pink section is u/c, and left (western) section between river Cetina and Dugi Rat is about to start. Of course, eastern section (from river to exit Omiš) is also u/c.


----------



## MichiH

x-type said:


> Somebody has already drawn it. It is not published yet, but if you enter the editor, you will se it there. That means it will become visible within few days.
> Basically, pink section is u/c, and left (western) section between river Cetina and Dugi Rat is about to start. Of course, eastern section (from river to exit Omiš) is also u/c.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2566661





https://openstreetmap.de/karte/


----------



## zezi

Blue part is U/C. And the bridge.
It will be connected to existing roads (red), and purple line is planed completely new bypass, Omiš - Split.

Blue part was not planned at all, in the beginning.
They first built tunel and roads SE from Cetina river, and they didn't have money to complete new bypass road all the way to Split. So everything stopped. And there was discussion how to use what they finished already. So they came with the idea to build blue part as temporary (for few decades probably) connection to existing roads so they can use what was already built.


Y connection is inside of tunel.


















So right side tube will be used for now.
Left side tube is not drilled completely, only few dozen meters ahead from connection point


----------



## AθΕνΙαΝ

Any news on the A5 section Osijek-Beli Manastir linking up with the Hungarian M6?


----------



## x-type

AθΕνΙαΝ said:


> Any news on the A5 section Osijek-Beli Manastir linking up with the Hungarian M6?


Osijek - Beli Manastir summer 2022 (18km to be built)
Beli Manastir - state border spring 2024 (5km)


----------



## zezi

x-type said:


> Beli Manastir - state border spring 2024 (5km)


Tender hasn't even started yet, so It is just plan for now.


----------



## x-type

zezi said:


> Tender hasn't even started yet, so It is just plan for now.


It will be nowadays. They have announced term of completition for end of 2023 or beginning 2024, that's ehy I wrote spring 2024


----------



## theAlien

^^
If it had been announced by Baba Vanga or Nostradamus, I would have believed more than the one who announced it 😁


----------



## x-type

theAlien said:


> ^^
> If it had been announced by Baba Vanga or Nostradamus, I would have believed more than the one who announced it 😁


Local prefect, Chairman of HC and Chairman of HAC said it. I agree, baba Vanga is more reliable 








Radovi na Koridoru 5c u Baranji u punom jeku


Radove na izgradnji autoceste A5 na koridoru 5C, odnosno poddionice Beli Manastir - most Halasica danas (12. svibnja 2021. godine) obišli su župan Iva...




www.obz.hr


----------



## zezi

x-type said:


> It will be nowadays. They have announced term of completition for end of 2023 or beginning 2024, that's ehy I wrote spring 2024


Just to remind You, tender for expressway Breza -Bjelovar was announced 17.12.*2020. *Did construction started yet? No. So it can be a long way from promise to tender and extra long from promise to road completion.


----------



## bogdymol

How will the Y tunnel intersection work? Traffic lights? Simple give way sign? That is a potential collision point of the traffic, and I wonder how they are planning to solve it inside a tunnel.


----------



## zezi

bogdymol said:


> How will the Y tunnel intersection work? Traffic lights? Simple give way sign? That is a potential collision point of the traffic, and I wonder how they are planning to solve it inside a tunnel.


Plan is for left side tunnel to be main direction, once complete expressway is finished. Right side will be used only to get off from expressway when coming from south. For sure it will not be a full intersection with possibility of lanes crossing. Even joining expressway going to Split direction will not be allowed. But I believe it will take many years before we get to that point.


----------



## Reportiv

It seems like a contract for supervision for the construction of the II. phase of expressway Okučani - border of Bosnia and Herzegovina was signed end of last year with Institut IGH d.d.

They already supervised the construction of the bridge, which was part of the I. phase together with Krebs+Kiefer.

So potentially the construction might start soon.

Institut IGH, d.d., signed a contract with Hrvatske ceste d.o.o. (Croatian roads) for the professional supervision services for the construction of the II. phase of expressway Okučani – border of Bosnia and Herzegovina, length 4.07 km and total value 7,269,654.68 HRK (excluding VAT).


----------



## The Wild Boy

Wasn't that meant to be a motorway? Is traffic low there, so that's why they are building it as an express road? And why will there be a section from the village Okučani. Does that mean that this express road could get continued towards Hungary? 

I can see on osm de that there's a proposed extension for D12 from where it ends, all the way to Virovitica and then towards Hungary though Barcs and towards Pecs linking with the M60 motorway. 

Because i think i heard somewhere before that there were plans for another express road connection towards Hungary, so maybe building a new express road from Okučani all the way towards Virovitica where it could link with the D12. 

I'm assuming all those are long term plans, since traffic there is lower? However that would be a welcomed alternative and serve as a secondary connection towards Banja Luka, possibly the corridor Vc and maybe in the very distant future if they build a new road from Banja Luka towards Split. That would be another welcomed alternative for reaching the corridor vc. Of course corridor vc is the main priority for everyone now and it should stay that way.


----------



## stickedy

It's to interchange Okučani first. It's 2x2 expressway. See [HR] Croatia | road infrastructure • Ceste & Autoceste

The extension from the exit Okučani towards the town Okučani and maybe further north is planned according to that linked plan.


----------



## theAlien

stickedy said:


> It's to interchange Okučani first.


No it's not ... just 4 km to the Novi Varos junction (phase 2 red marked):


----------



## The Wild Boy

Wouldn't have it been better if they did it like this:









Because on a longer term plan, this express road would continue towards Hungary, i see the current plan has a trumpet connection leading to the extension of the express road (green dotted lines) which means there is no direct connection towards the future extension, so once that extension gets built vehicles coming from Hungary and going towards Hungary will have to go on the interchange to keep going forward. I did a re - design, and i think it would've been better to just provide a direct connection to the future green (dotted) extension and have the trumpet only connect to the dark red (connection with motorway).

This design that they planned doesn't seem the best from a traffic level perspective. When you look closer you will understand what I'm trying to say:









And my better solution:









What do you say about this? Maybe i am wrong here and there will be more traffic coming from the motorway? But i did not like the original design, if most of the traffic coming from Hungary, they will have to merge on the interchange to continue forward.

Edit:










Is that a future planned toll booth? Will it be a closed type of system for tolling there? Since i can't see any other space on the other interchanges for putting toll booths . I'm a bit confused in regards to how the tolling will be done here. If express roads in Croatia are toll free, then maybe that toll is just for entering the motorway (entering closed tolling system).

And will this be a 2x2 express road all the way to Hungary when it gets extended and built in the future? Or will it be a 1x1 like the one planned connecting to the Peljesac bridge?


----------



## krzysiek997

The Wild Boy said:


> Wouldn't have it been better if they did it like this:
> <I did a re - design>


 The best would be to rework the existing interchange to cloverleaf or stack interchange not to make three trumpets. These trumpets create to of urban mess, confuse while changing directions and use a ton of space IMHO.


----------



## theAlien

The Wild Boy said:


> Is that a future planned toll booth?


No,this is existing toll booth for motorway A3, express roads in Croatia are toll free.
This section from the Okučani junction to the bridge over the Sava River will be 2x2 express road.

It is better not to say anything at this time about the continuation of the construction of this express road north to the Hungarian border, as well as about a possible junction.
Maybe none of us will be alive when that moment comes. 😁


----------



## Puležan

A8 Učka tunnel second tube, 1000 m excavated:





The plan is to excavate the whole length (5634 m) by the August 2023, and to open it to traffic in June 2024.


----------



## The Wild Boy

Once they finish the second tube and open it to traffic, are they going to close the first tube and renovate it? Or is it in good shape?

What's the progress from the tunnel itself to the trumpet interchange with A7? Are they working on doubling that road, turning it into a motorway? 

How are they going to deal with this junction? I don't see a lot of space to turn it into grade separated? The curvatures on the B8 / A8 road are also a bit sharper and there are several objects closer to the existing road itself. I wonder how they will deal with that. 

And when to they plan to double the viaducts / bridges on A9 and A8?


----------



## Puležan

The Wild Boy said:


> Once they finish the second tube and open it to traffic, are they going to close the first tube and renovate it? Or is it in good shape?
> 
> What's the progress from the tunnel itself to the trumpet interchange with A7? Are they working on doubling that road, turning it into a motorway?
> 
> How are they going to deal with this junction? I don't see a lot of space to turn it into grade separated? The curvatures on the B8 / A8 road are also a bit sharper and there are several objects closer to the existing road itself. I wonder how they will deal with that.
> 
> And when to they plan to double the viaducts / bridges on A9 and A8?


The existing tube will be renovated, of course, even though it's already in good condition, but the two-way signalling sistem needs to be retrofitted to one-way traffic, the evacuation corridors with the new tube must be completed etc. 

The Učka-Matulji route is currently in a design stage. The current Matulji exit with traffic lights with be upgraded to a proper junction:









Because of the curvature of this section (the speed will be 90 km/h), a new route is planned deeper/higher inland, but it's just a plan for the future. 

Every viaduct on A8 has been doubled. Only Mirna bridge and Limska draga viaduct on A9 need to be doubled and the plan is to double them in the coming years, together with adding the missing SOS lane on the old carriageway.


----------



## The Wild Boy

Puležan said:


> a new route is planned deeper/higher inland


Interesting. What would such a route inland look like? Where would it go though? 

I see one gap in between both carriageways of the A7 motorway here.  Could that be where a future interchange would be present? Would that also make A8 connect with the planned bypass of Rijeka?


----------



## Broskva

The Wild Boy said:


> What would such a route inland look like? Where would it go though?


You can find these long term plans for inland route of A8 and outer Rijeka bypass here: OpenStreetMap Deutschland: Karte


----------



## stickedy

The Wild Boy said:


> I see one gap in between both carriageways of the A7 motorway here.  Could that be where a future interchange would be present? Would that also make A8 connect with the planned bypass of Rijeka?


This will be the interchange for future Rijeka motorway bypass


----------



## zvonko

Čvor Permani A7 - A6
Čvor Jušići A7 - A8



zvonko said:


> 2011.


----------



## x-type

theAlien said:


> ^^
> If it had been announced by Baba Vanga or Nostradamus, I would have believed more than the one who announced it 😁





zezi said:


> Just to remind You, tender for expressway Breza -Bjelovar was announced 17.12.*2020. *Did construction started yet? No. So it can be a long way from promise to tender and extra long from promise to road completion.


So you two babe Vange, officially the works on Breza - Bjelovar have started  Ok, it is only about archaeological digging, but that's must-be thing to be fullfilled prior to the construction works. So we can expect real works really to start in the spring as announced.









EKSKLUZIVNO: Krenuli radovi na preostalih 12 kilometara brze ceste prema Bjelovaru! — Bjelovar.live


Piše: Ivan Karačony ([email protected]) Kao što je i najavljeno, radovi na izgradnji preostalih 12 kilometara brze ceste od Farkaševca do Bjelovar i dalje dobro napreduju, a cijela priča kreće se…



bjelovar.live


----------



## r0k

Puležan said:


> Every viaduct on A8 has been doubled. Only Mirna bridge and Limska draga viaduct on A9 need to be doubled and the plan is to double them in the coming years, together with adding the missing SOS lane on the old carriageway.


Greetings, two questions:

Is there a timeline available for Mirna and Limska Draga upgrade?
Are these 2 points such a bottleneck that such a big investment is needed? Acc to my experiences in the summertime, no queues and waiting there.


----------



## Puležan

r0k said:


> Greetings, two questions:
> 
> Is there a timeline available for Mirna and Limska Draga upgrade?
> Are these 2 points such a bottleneck that such a big investment is needed? Acc to my experiences in the summertime, no queues and waiting there.


There is no exact timeline and/or dates. The concessionaire had said they will build that when the whole A8 is finished from Učka to Matulji. I didn't experience no big queues either so it's not a bottleneck.


----------



## kokomo

Hi fellas. What news regarding the opening of the Peljesac bridge?


----------



## zezi

Today, 18.02.2022. contract was signed for section Lekenik - Sisak of A11 motorway.
About 37,3 mil €, 11 km, 24 months, flat terrain.
Sisak area was hit by strong earthquake (6.2 R) 29.12.2020. and afterwards was decided by government to invest in A11 motorway, although few years before earthquake all plans regarding construction of A11 section were stopped.


----------



## The Wild Boy

What's planned towards Petrinja? Another motorway extension? On the side in Bosnia I think they are already building a motorway from Banja Luka towards Prijedor. So maybe a Prijedor - Petrinje expressway? This would be another parallel road to the A1 in Croatia, and this would make it possible to go from Banja Luka towards Zagreb through the A11 motorway in Croatia. That is of course if both Bosnia and Croatia have longer - term plans for a new road connection to the abovementioned places.


----------



## zezi

kokomo said:


> Hi fellas. What news regarding the opening of the Peljesac bridge?


No news. Summer time. Without any new information or fixed date.



The Wild Boy said:


> What's planned towards Petrinja? Another motorway extension? On the side in Bosnia I think they are already building a motorway from Banja Luka towards Prijedor. So maybe a Prijedor - Petrinje expressway? This would be another parallel road to the A1 in Croatia, and this would make it possible to go from Banja Luka towards Zagreb through the A11 motorway in Croatia. That is of course if both Bosnia and Croatia have longer - term plans for a new road connection to the abovementioned places.


There was a plan, 20 years ago to build motorway A11 from Zagreb to Mošćenica (village between Sisak and Petrinja). And also idea to continue towards BIH (in future), and connect with BIH motorway from Banja Luka. But from Sisak/Petrinja towards BIH population is very low, and even from Zagreb to Sisak numbers does not justify motorway (AADT maximum 10 000 on existing roads).


----------



## zezi

zezi said:


> September 2022 is official deadline. But usually all big construction work have some delay, so I think it will be finished in Q1/ 2023





kokomo said:


> Thanks.
> Honestly, looks very daunting that timeline





belerophon said:


> But as far as i can see only the southern half of the bypass ist yet in construction, ending with the tunnel. The bridge has not even started, and should already be in service after just one more year?


New official timeline is spring 2023.

How to build the bridge inside of tunnel:


----------



## kokomo

Interesting technique. And gorgeous scenery, for sure😍😍😍


----------



## alserrod

Puležan said:


> The existing tube will be renovated, of course, even though it's already in good condition, but the two-way signalling sistem needs to be retrofitted to one-way traffic, the evacuation corridors with the new tube must be completed etc.
> 
> The Učka-Matulji route is currently in a design stage. The current Matulji exit with traffic lights with be upgraded to a proper junction:
> View attachment 2669971
> 
> 
> Because of the curvature of this section (the speed will be 90 km/h), a new route is planned deeper/higher inland, but it's just a plan for the future.
> 
> Every viaduct on A8 has been doubled. Only Mirna bridge and Limska draga viaduct on A9 need to be doubled and the plan is to double them in the coming years, together with adding the missing SOS lane on the old carriageway.




I have been waiting in that traffic light several times. In peak hours there was a man connecting green/red instead of a machine!!!


----------



## ntom

I came across this article, which seems to show some recent images. Judging by this one below, it looks the width of the carriageways is just about enough for two full lanes in each. Or is it just the bend which is wider? As far as I remember, the project always said one lane per carriageway + one narrower emergency lane.











Source: Ura që do të transformojë udhëtimin në Ballkan


----------



## stickedy

It's one driving lane + one emergency lane.

Maybe the driving lane is wider than normal or they are reserving some space left of the driving lane also. It's because of possible side wind that they don't do 2x2.


----------



## Darioz

italystf said:


> Are they planning to connect Korcula with the mainland?


Why not some day? I guess it will happen rather soon than late. Korcula has a lot what to offer and will stimulate people to go there all year round. Also for the locals on the island, it means a fast connection to Split, Dubrovnik and Zagreb. Who knows... the link can even be done by the Chinese again with EU money. ☺


----------



## pleja

Darioz said:


> Why not some day? I guess it will happen rather soon than late. Korcula has a lot what to offer and will stimulate people to go there all year round. Also for the locals on the island, it means a fast connection to Split, Dubrovnik and Zagreb. Who knows... the link can even be done by the Chinese again with EU money. ☺


It has also a lot of negative aspects for the locals i.e. impact on they way of life. Basically, they will have to decide if they want it themselves and not all are happy with the idea.

Example: Mislite da svi otočani sanjaju o mostu poput pelješkog? Bili smo na otoku kojemu već 30 godina najavljuju most, ali je dio stanovnika žestoko protiv povezivanja s kopnom


----------



## Darioz

Sure there are people who will be against like everywhere else but there are also people who are for such a connection. In the end it's up to Croatia whether it will build another bridge between Peljesac and Korcula or not. I guess a new link there will be very beneficial for the whole island in general. I mean the local people will feel the cash which will flow to Korcula. It is a pefect location to get away from the city.


----------



## pleja

There's a great short movie about this dilemma. I would not say it's even up to the whole of Croatia to decide but to islanders themselves.


----------



## theAlien

Darioz said:


> In the end it's up to Croatia whether it will build another bridge between Peljesac and Korcula or not.


Yes, Croatia has already decided ... the new ferry port of Korcula (Polaciste) and the new ferry port of Orebic (Perna) are being built, and from the Brijesta road junction (the newly opened road over the Peljesac bridge) a continuation of the modern road to Orebic and the new ferry port of Perna .








Nova luka Korčula - luka Polačište - Povezanahrvatska


Projektom je na istočnom dijelu luke predviđen operativni gat širine 16 m, dužine 55 m, s trajektnim vezom dužine 55 m s istočne strane, a dužine 80 m sa zapadne strane. Na istočnoj strani planirana je i obala u dužini od 130 m s trajektnim vezom. Na zapadnom dijelu luke predviđena je privezna...




povezanahrvatska.eu












OREBIĆ ĆE DOBITI MODERNU LUKU: Ishođena građevinska dozvola za luku Perna | | Morski HR


OREBIĆ - Projekt izgradnje luke Perna u Orebiću na korak je do realizacije. Dubrovačko-neretvanska županija objavila je u četvrtak da je putem svoje županijske lučke uprave ishodila pravomoćnu




morski.hr






https://mingor.gov.hr/UserDocsImages//UPRAVA%20ZA%20ZA%C5%A0TITU%20PRIRODE/Prethodna%20ocjena%202020/Prethodna%20ocjena%20za%20zahvate%202020//08052020_obilaznica_orebic_brijesta.pdf



Therefore, no normal person will invest hundreds of millions of euros in new infrastructure, which he would cancel and render useless in one move (construction of a bridge).
So, forget that story


----------



## Darioz

I get your point but I wouldn't reject the idea of a new bridge there in the future. This is in a time span of at least 7-8 to 10 years from now. Hundreds of millions of euros for two local quays and some open space to operate the ferry, come on. ☺

Please click on this link and choose from the layer button (upper right) for example Bing maps. Let's shift to Korcula now. If we use the tool for drawing lines (above), it is visible that a new 1+1 bridge can be built with a distance of under 2km. On the Peljesac peninsula the point could be between Orebic and Perna and on the Korcula island - the small peninsula which looks like a bean just east of the city of Korcula.

I assume the ferry will take 40-45 minutes for embarking, disembarking and crossing the strait. If we have a bridge, it will take couple of minutes to go from one land to the other and vice versa. Moreover with a bridge we can cross the strait anytime of the day. What will be the timetable of the ferry? Every two hours? During the night?

Of course the bridge is more expensive but it's worth having such in the future. Korcula is a top destination there and deserves this investment.


----------



## keber

Who will pay for another gigantic bridge, size comparable to Pelješac bridge? EU surely not.


----------



## italystf

keber said:


> Who will pay for another gigantic bridge, size comparable to Pelješac bridge? EU surely not.


Why EU would finance a bridge connecting and island with the mainland? It's not an international connection of European interest, but a local matter. Croatia (or Dubrovnik county) should pay for it.
EU should rather finance international connections such as the Adriatic highway between Trieste and Igoumenitsa or VC corridor between Budapest and Ploce, where single countries crossed by the route have little interest in modernizing it, as it largelyserves foreign traffic.


----------



## pleja

italystf said:


> Why EU would finance a bridge connecting and island with the mainland? It's not an international connection of European interest, but a local matter. Croatia (or Dubrovnik county) should pay for it.
> EU should rather finance international connections such as the Adriatic highway between Trieste and Igoumenitsa or VC corridor between Budapest and Ploce, where single countries crossed by the route have little interest in modernizing it, as it largelyserves foreign traffic.


It's already financing a bunch of small island local ports. Two ports or a bridge - same thing. Project would not be nearly as complex as Peljesac bridge. 
Think of something, there's an EU fund for it. Don't get me wrong, in principle I agree with you and funds for this could be used for much better purposes within Croatia.


----------



## Darioz

Okay but the same question can be raised with respect to the Peljesac bridge too. Why did EU pay for it, knowing very well that the motorway will go one day through a different route towards Montenegro? It is obvious that the traffic on the Peljesac bridge is local one mainly to Dubrovnik.


----------



## stickedy

1. If a motorway to Montenegro will follow a different route is at least uncertain. I know the plans, but there is simple no funding solution yet in sight to finance that project in BiH to MNE border. And the proposed motorway through Neum corridor is very unlikely to happen since BiH has no interest in it. 

2. Peljesac bridge was funded exactly with money for that, from Cohesion Policy Funds. That's money to help to develop regions in the EU, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_policy_of_the_European_Union

Peljesac bridge is a regional project. Like a lot of other projects. And a possible bridge to Korcula - or other islands as well - would also be covered by that.


----------



## keber

pleja said:


> Project would not be nearly as complex as Peljesac bridge.


Bridge to Korčula island would be just a bit shorter than Pelješac bridge, sea in that channel has similar depth, winds and weather can be even more difficult there, the bridge height would probably have to be also for the biggest passenger cruisers and there is much more marine traffic, except necessary connecting roads would be shorter. In short, another mega project.


----------



## pleja

keber said:


> Bridge to Korčula island would be just a bit shorter than Pelješac bridge, sea in that channel has similar depth, winds and weather can be even more difficult there, the bridge height would probably have to be also for the biggest passenger cruisers and there is much more marine traffic, except necessary connecting roads would be shorter. In short, another mega project.


No. Cruise ships can go around Korcula, it's not a big difference (cruise ports are Dubrovnik, Korcula town, Split). Main shipping lines for freight do not go through that channel. Bridge height and bridge spans can be much smaller. Connecting road doesn't have to be a motorway. In any case, I would prefer a 3-4km tunnel than bridge.


----------



## pleja

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eysturoyartunnilin150m €


----------



## italystf

keber said:


> Bridge to Korčula island would be just a bit shorter than Pelješac bridge, sea in that channel has similar depth, winds and weather can be even more difficult there, the bridge height would probably have to be also for the biggest passenger cruisers and there is much more marine traffic, except necessary connecting roads would be shorter. In short, another mega project.


Well, a large ship could circumnavigate Korcula if it will be unable to pass under the bridge.
On the other hand, no ship could circumnavigate Peliesac, as it's connected to mainland.


----------



## toonczyk

Decisions whether to invest in new infrastructure are made based on multi-factor analysis, so until such an analysis is made, this is all speculation. Korčula bridge/tunnel would massively help local residents, both economically (cheaper transport of goods from mainland, potentially more tourists) and just in everyday lives (if I remember correctly, municipal offices for Pelješac residents are located in Korčula city). So it's just a matter of quantifying that and calculating if it's worth it considering monetary and ecological costs on the other side of the equation.


----------



## kdpy

Croatia will have soon complete motorway network except A1 extension in Montenegro direction and A7 with new Rijeka bypass.
In A1 case as mentioned there are three scenarios:
1. Bosnian corridor - very unlikely to be built in next 20 years, it goes through low inhabited areas, FBiH and especially RS wouldn't have much profits from this and have much more important investments
2. previous A1 concept through Neum and Dubrovnik - unlikely because bridge has been built. If built it would show the bridge is wasted money so won't be built.
3. expressway continuation to Dubrovnik and Montenegro border - important if Montenegro or Albania joins EU. It doesn't exclude Bosnian motorway in further future if BiH also joins EU. Most comfortable because Croatia may slowly build another regional expressway sections in lower standard than full-scale and expensive motorway.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

In the grand scheme of things, a motorway to Montenegro seems more plausible to run via Trebinje - Nikšić - Podgorica than along the coast? The biggest challenge of this route seems to be the canyonlands east of Trebinje. 

But I don't see this getting built unless the EU pumps some serious money in it.


----------



## theAlien

Darioz said:


> Okay but the same question can be raised with respect to the Peljesac bridge too. Why did EU pay for it, knowing very well that the motorway will go one day through a different route towards Montenegro?


The only reason why the EU financed the construction of the bridge is a political and functional reason for the EU and the Schengen area.
In the case that the Neum Corridor was territorial area of Croatia or that BiH was part of the EU and Schengen, the EU would certainly not allocate a single cent for this financing.
So a very simple answer.


----------



## Darioz

theAlien said:


> The only reason why the EU financed the construction of the bridge is a political and functional reason for the EU and the Schengen area.
> In the case that the Neum Corridor was territorial area of Croatia or that BiH was part of the EU and Schengen, the EU would certainly not allocate a single cent for this financing.
> So a very simple answer.


I know that, mate. I simply juxtaposed the two bridges. If the Peljesac bridge is obviously built now to connect Dubrovnik county directly to the rest of Croatia overland, why another bridge cannot be built to do the same with Korcula too. We have only the bridge there which could be in fact 1.9km long. The road to Orebic will be upgraded anyway.
Croatia generates much from the tourist industry. But the financing of such a bridge is not solely a Croatian matter. Germans and Italians frequently visit the Dalmatian coast. There are also many other nationalities.
Ferries from Termoli and Garganico on the side of the Adriatic Sea travel to Split and the islands. So EU money can be included too. Korcula will develop its road infrastructure and it is not necessary that the local ferries should stop only in the city of Korcula. They can also do it on the other side of the island so that there's is a whole loop Split-Peljesac-Korcula-Hvar-Brac-Split.


----------



## theAlien

Full driving on the new road


----------



## theAlien

But with an idiot driver


----------



## The Wild Boy

Did you spot the cyclist? I believe someone in the Croatian forum was asking if they could cycle on the bridge  

Answer is obvious, but some people love breaking laws it seems.


----------



## pleja

The Wild Boy said:


> Did you spot the cyclist? I believe someone in the Croatian forum was asking if they could cycle on the bridge
> 
> Answer is obvious, but some people love breaking laws it seems.


[Croatia] - Pelješki most 2


----------



## keber

Is there any new gas station planned on the new route on Pelješac where there is a rest area? Currently on the route between Ploče and Dubrovnik there is one in Opuzen, but after new road will be finished, next on the route will be about 80 km further in Zaton before Dubrovnik.


----------



## theAlien

^^
Unfortunately no. All 4 road rest areas are planned without gas stations.
Possibly in the area of two road junctions (Zaradeze and Prapratno) it would be possible to find space for extra gas station.



keber said:


> Currently on the route between Ploče and Dubrovnik there is one in Opuzen, but after new road will be finished, next on the route will be about 80 km further in Zaton before Dubrovnik.


43,5 km








Ina to DP Oil







www.google.nl


----------



## stickedy

In the past years it was not very profitable to build gas station somewhere around Neum corridor since the prices in BiH are much lower. With the new road this is changing of course since a lot of people will take the bridge and not travelling through Neum. So I think we can expect company building some new gas stations.


----------



## Darioz

Guys, can you list the Tesla superchargers in Croatia? One for sure is in Zagreb, one in Slavonski Brod and one I suppose on A1 near Split. Are there any other Tesla stations currently in operation or construction? Hvala


----------



## ChrisZwolle

The supercharger at the A1 exit at Otočac made German-language news for the long queues.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1551141164799201280

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1550846053414572032


----------



## pleja

Darioz said:


> Guys, can you list the Tesla superchargers in Croatia? One for sure is in Zagreb, one in Slavonski Brod and one I suppose on A1 near Split. Are there any other Tesla stations currently in operation or construction? Hvala


Just search it in GMaps.


----------



## Darioz

Wow, they increased their number from what I knew before. This is great stuff. They just had to make the new ones/stalls available for 250kV. Probably will be upgraded in the future. Anyway, Croatia can now be travelled end-to-end super easy with a Tesla.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

MichiH said:


> What's the numbering of the new road? OSM indicates D8 for the bridge only, than D674. The old route is still indicated as D8. What's the official dedication?


Street View shows D8:


----------



## pleja

ChrisZwolle said:


> Street View shows D8:


It's D674. Signs are messed up with road numbering on the whole new road. You can see the official map here: Geoportal - Hrvatske ceste d.o.o.


----------



## Puležan

pleja said:


> It's D674. Signs are messed up with road numbering on the whole new road. You can see the official map here: Geoportal - Hrvatske ceste d.o.o.


Highly unlikely that this road remains named 6xx. I don't know where did they pull this number from. Official numbering act from March 2022 doesn't have 674 in it.
Odluka o razvrstavanju javnih cesta
I think that the intention is to name this new road D8 once the whole segment around Ston is finished, so it has a continuation from SLO to MNE.


----------



## x-type

I'd bet that it would become part of D8. Problem is that it has to pass through state administration, and they are - on holidays.
It would not be the first case that 5xx (or 6xx, I hear for the first time 6xx) road would exist only for several months before it becomes part of rerouted nearby D-road.
Old route od D8 in that case would be downgraded into Ž road (altough it is also doubtful because of border crossing, maybe it becomes 2xx)


----------



## Puležan

x-type said:


> I'd bet that it would become part of D8. Problem is that it has to pass through state administration, and they are - on holidays.
> It would not be the first case that 5xx (or 6xx, I hear for the first time 6xx) road would exist only for several months before it becomes part of rerouted nearby D-road.
> Old route od D8 in that case would be downgraded into Ž road (altough it is also doubtful because of border crossing, maybe it becomes 2xx)


Old route from Komarna to Klek and from Zaton Doli b/c to Zaton Doli will surely become 2xx road, because that is the rule for roads going towards border crossings.


----------



## Eulanthe

ChrisZwolle said:


> Street View shows D8:


As an aside, that sign is very misleading. It shows Korcula, without any indication that a ferry crossing is needed. I don't think this is standard elsewhere in Croatia, is it?

Oh, and the other thing: what on earth were the designers thinking? The D8 is dangerous enough with people getting frustrated after being stuck behind caravans/campervans/etc, couldn't they have designed this road as to allow more overtaking opportunities? Google Maps suggests that it's 6 minutes faster to go through Neum as well, which makes me think that most locals off-season will prefer to go through Neum anyway for the cheaper cigarettes and fuel.


----------



## x-type

Eulanthe said:


> As an aside, that sign is very misleading. It shows Korcula, without any indication that a ferry crossing is needed. I don't think this is standard elsewhere in Croatia, is it?
> 
> Oh, and the other thing: what on earth were the designers thinking? The D8 is dangerous enough with people getting frustrated after being stuck behind caravans/campervans/etc, couldn't they have designed this road as to allow more overtaking opportunities? Google Maps suggests that it's 6 minutes faster to go through Neum as well, which makes me think that most locals off-season will prefer to go through Neum anyway for the cheaper cigarettes and fuel.


Yep, that's missing. I cannot remember any other ferry destinations without signed ferry crossing. 
The same thing goes for tolled sections on directional signs - they are never signed in Croatia, and I find it a real miss.

About overpassing - I know what was going on. Such straight roads are often dangerous. Example is A8 before adding second carriageway. Each accident there was fatal because of high speeds and frontal impacts. The same thing goes for this one. 
Problem is when this appears:


----------



## theAlien

Eulanthe said:


> Oh, and the other thing: what on earth were the designers thinking? The D8 is dangerous enough with people getting frustrated after being stuck behind caravans/campervans/etc, couldn't they have designed this road as to allow more overtaking opportunities?


If it had been designed by Dutch designers, then it would have been like this along its entire length 
.. except that in the Netherlands this means a maximum allowed speed of 100 km/h


----------



## Darioz

Eulanthe said:


> Oh, and the other thing: what on earth were the designers thinking? The D8 is dangerous enough with people getting frustrated after being stuck behind caravans/campervans/etc, couldn't they have designed this road as to allow more overtaking opportunities? Google Maps suggests that it's 6 minutes faster to go through Neum as well, which makes me think that most locals off-season will prefer to go through Neum anyway for the cheaper cigarettes and fuel.


You won't overtake when it is not allowed and will comply with the traffic. If you're in a hurry, take the plane.
No one will drive Split-Dubrovnik via Neum anymore, unless he/she goes to Neum.


----------



## The Wild Boy

I never understand, why the new connecting roads to the Peljesac Bridge, all the planned new roads, why weren't they planned and built like this in the beginning? 

















This example is taken from my country. 
The difference would have been that there would be hard shoulders present on each side, allowing vehicles to "step" on them, to allow easier - overtaking for other vehicles, stopping during emergencies would have been allowed on the entire route, the amount of accidents would be less with such a design, plus you would have more places where you'd be allowed to overtake, because it is much easier to overtake this way. 

Now there's issues with this road format too. This is an express road, what we call, or just a half - profile motorway. The issue here is that these are hard shoulders, which many countries actually strictly define and use them for stopping only and only during emergencies. It is the same by law in my country too, but no one follows this law, neither authorities, nor police nor anyone... 

And if there is police present on that road and sees you "stepping" on the hard - shoulder, they wouldn't fine you. 

This road format is also dangerous, because sometimes there might be actual vehicles parked on the emergency lane, and you couldn't give space for others to overtake, and in the worst case scenario resulting in hitting the parked vehicle on the hard - shoulder, because in this case it is used as a "stepping" lane for easier and much safer overtaking. That is the big disadvantage of using such a format. 


Now, there's other options. For example this road in Romania. Now if you pay attention and compare it to what i sent, and look sorely at the markings you will notice that the difference here is that in the road in Romania the lanes are not full and they are instead dashed. This means that vehicles are legally allowed to use those side - lanes to "step" on them and overtake, and that those lanes are not to be used for emergencies (probably they can be, i don't know??). So something like that could have also been an option, and people could have just used the existing SOS bays for emergency reasons. The other option i could think of is making all of the road 1+2 / 2+1, but yeah that is already approaching 4 lanes, and it doesn't really make a lot of sense, nor there is really a big need to use that format everywhere on the road there, because after the summer - season, Peljesac Bridge and it's connecting roads won't see a lot of traffic.... so yeah. 

I guess in the end of the day just don't be in a rush, drive normally and safely, and only overtake when you can and when you will calculate that it is safe to do so. 

As i have heard there will be another 1+2 section on the Ston Bypass, so with opening that road next year (??) there will be more space for overtaking, so yeah.


----------



## zezi

The Wild Boy said:


> I never understand, why the new connecting roads to the Peljesac Bridge, all the planned new roads, why weren't they planned and built like this in the beginning?
> 
> View attachment 3616777
> View attachment 3616779


'cause terrain looks like this


----------



## pleja

At 90-100 you need a lot of length for overtaking and realisticly the only straight enough part of the road for that without tunnels/viaducts is between Zaradeze and Prapratno. On that section you have 2+1 on uphill direction and you have a section with extremely good visibility where you can overtake. Everything else is an intersection, tunnel, viaduct or curve... They could perhaps extend overtaking possibilities a bit more but not by much due to terrain.


----------



## theAlien

What else to discuss in the Balkans than the possibility or impossibility of overtaking on the roads ... a kind of national sport .. and the result below:


----------



## The Wild Boy

Okay you guys are right. I see and i can understand why it isn't just possible to come out with such types of road to allow for easier overtaking. 

Once again, people should just follow the law / rules, and not drive and overtake like idiots...


----------



## sponge_bob

This looks like a tired Polish bus driver fell asleep after a long trek south from Poland in the heat. . 









Croatia bus crash: Twelve Polish pilgrims killed and 32 injured


All 32 surviving passengers are injured, 19 of them seriously, officials say.



www.bbc.com


----------



## pleja

Thanks to @GSN:

Finally someone made a proper video:


----------



## stickedy

I was driving down the mountains to Novi Vinodolski some days ago and noticed some preparation works and a big sign for something with autocesta there. There is also visible work done when departing towards Senj on D8.

Did they really start construction of the bypass? Any informations on it like deadline and so on?


----------



## pleja

stickedy said:


> I was driving down the mountains to Novi Vinodolski some days ago and noticed some preparation works and a big sign for something with autocesta there. There is also visible work done when departing towards Senj on D8.
> 
> Did they really start construction of the bypass? Any informations on it like deadline and so on?


Yes, it was signed a year ago. On paper, should be done in 2,5 years.

Radovi na novljanskoj obilaznici počinju 11. ožujka


----------



## Pitchoune

I just discovered what an eFoil board is and that it existed ...


----------



## italystf

Are they still planning to extend A7 all the way south to A1?


----------



## pleja

italystf said:


> Are they still planning to extend A7 all the way south to A1?


I think they will for now only create town bypasses (which basically form parts of A7) to resolve major traffic issues. But the full length to A1 is a distant future.


----------



## kokomo

satanism said:


> It's very likely Albania would have much fewer obstacles to joining than NMK...it's almost guaranteed Bulgaria will veto NMK along the way at least 1 more time.


and why is that?



theAlien said:


> As far as I know, it has been existing for a long time.
> When entering Bosnia and Herzegovina from Croatia, you have only one control, the Bosnian one.. when leaving Bosnia and Herzegovina and entering Croatia, there is also only one control, Croatian... but you have two border crossings at a distance of 10 km.


I remember crossing back in 2018 driving from Dubrovnik to Split and the process was as follows:
HR Exit: passport control checking picture only
BiH Entry: passport control checking picture only but mostly waving you through
BiH Exit: crickets chirping, advance to next booth
HR Entry: lengthy questioning "where are you coming from? where are you going?" and thorough revision of all passport pages


















By the way, congrats for the new bridge! I have long been waiting for it since I first knew about it. Would love to drive through it next time I come to Croatia. Cheers


----------



## ASB298

Why they didn't make two lanes for each direction? Is it that much more expensive?


----------



## satanism

kokomo said:


> and why is that?


I'm sure there's a million point sof view on this topic and it generally is a complex one but the simple answer is because we can and because they are not exactly trying hard not to get vetoed.


----------



## kokomo

Do not want to off topic here but your answer lacks sense. I understand Greece blocking Turkey due to historical reasons, but NMK is a new state inheriting boundaries from former Yugoslavia. Does Bulgaria have territorial claims or still resenting from the second Balkan war?


----------



## italystf

kokomo said:


> Do not want to off topic here but your answer lacks sense. I understand Greece blocking Turkey due to historical reasons, but NMK is a new state inheriting boundaries from former Yugoslavia. Does Bulgaria have territorial claims or still resenting from the second Balkan war?


Bulgaria doesn't want Macedonian to become an official language of EU, as it considers it a Bulgarian dialect and not a real language.


----------



## kokomo

Ok, thanks. Is that so then? A matter of tongue no territorial issues?


----------



## x-type

For all those asking about 2+2 traffic at Pelješac bridge: this guy has proven that it is possible. So if it will be needed, no problem to rearange it.


----------



## Klausenburg

The Wild Boy said:


> For example this road in Romania. Now if you pay attention and compare it to what i sent, and look sorely at the markings you will notice that the difference here is that in the road in Romania the lanes are not full and they are instead dashed. This means that vehicles are legally allowed to use those side - lanes to "step" on them and overtake, and that those lanes are not to be used for emergencies (probably they can be, i don't know??)


Hello no, this is the most dangerous road design in Romania! I can't believe somebody somewhere would see it as a positive example... Are you mad ? This design created conditions for many accidents, in fact is so dangerous that the death rate is the highest in Europe. NGOs related to SSC Romania are seriously asking the government to change this desing to 2+1 alternative in order to increase the abysmal safety...


----------



## zezi

pleja said:


> Yes, that's the main reason bypass was built as otherwise border traffic would go through town center...


and that old road is limited with this underpass under the railway








( 3,6 m)



MichiH said:


> Is the A5 section on schedule to be opened by end of year or do we expect delays?


It will be opened by end of the year


----------



## Ni3lS

Drove the new D674 and Peljesac bridge on Friday:


----------



## Ni3lS

I made a video of the new D674 and the Pelješac Bridge. Not sure when the remaining bypass of Ston is due to be opened


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Nice video, Niels.

Spot the error


----------



## Ni3lS

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nice video, Niels.
> 
> Spot the error


I'm a bit puzzled  You mean in the pillar or where?


----------



## pleja

It's turned the wrong way. Frankly, never thought about it that there was a "right way" to turn them


----------



## ChrisZwolle

That's right. I was wondering if people would notice that, there are guidelines how to install them, with stripes having to be in the direction the traffic is channeled (lower left if placed on the right, lower right if placed on the left). 

The rest seems to be installed correctly.


----------



## bogdymol

I think I have an OCD regarding this, as I always notice these pillars if they are turned the wrong way. In western Europe they are usually placed correctly, but in Romania there is a roughly 50% chance it is the other way around (=nobody cares during their installation which side they are turned to).


----------



## x-type

bogdymol said:


> I think I have an OCD regarding this, as I always notice these pillars if they are turned the wrong way. In western Europe they are usually placed correctly, but in Romania there is a roughly 50% chance it is the other way around (=nobody cares during their installation which side they are turned to).


You have stolen my post with OCD thing about it  I wanted to write it.


----------



## bogdymol

Glad to find out I am not the only one! I was feeling weird.


----------



## Autobahn-mann

^^ You're not the only one! Also in Italy it's the same. Maybe not the same % but similiar. The difference is often in who manage the road


----------



## Verso

Is OpenStreetMap correct that the missing half of A2 by Krapina is under construction? I wasn't aware of any such quick plan.


----------



## zezi

Verso said:


> Is OpenStreetMap correct that the missing half of A2 by Krapina is under construction? I wasn't aware of any such quick plan.


OSM is wrong. Nothing going on there at the moment


----------



## MichiH

OSM indicates it being u/c for ages. The last modification is from April 2020: Relation History: ‪Autocesta A2 [negativ]‬ (‪4679917‬) | OpenStreetMap


----------



## italystf

Even if it's usually very accurate (much better than Google Maps), OSM is made by people, thus it may be wrong. It's like the Wikipedia of the maps.
I have an OSM account, I could remove it if we're sure that it's not under construction.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Maybe someone included planned projects on OSM. A while ago it was mentioned that the Slovenian Third Development Axis was also shown as under construction on Open Street Map. 

I recall that a longer time ago, planned routes were more commonly included on OSM, at some point they switched to only showing roads that are actually under construction.


----------



## Eulanthe

Verso said:


> Is OpenStreetMap correct that the missing half of A2 by Krapina is under construction? I wasn't aware of any such quick plan.


I still don't understand why Croatia hasn't finished this section. It woudn't be very expensive to do...


----------



## theAlien

Eulanthe said:


> I still don't understand why Croatia hasn't finished this section. It woudn't be very expensive to do...


This is not the responsibility of Croatia, but the concessionaire of the motorway (Pyhrn Concession Holding GmbH with 51% shares).


----------



## keber

ChrisZwolle said:


> Maybe someone included planned projects on OSM. A while ago it was mentioned that the Slovenian Third Development Axis was also shown as under construction on Open Street Map.
> 
> I recall that a longer time ago, planned routes were more commonly included on OSM, at some point they switched to only showing roads that are actually under construction.


There is a guy in OSM community that puts many planned projects or even just proposals as projects under construction. I already removed some of those projects and confronted him with private messaging but with no success as he is very rude as he was doing that not just in Slovenia but also other countries, including Croatia. OSM online editors are not very straightforward (or my knowledge with editing is limited) so reverting such changes or removing edits from particular user is not easy.


----------



## Bastiaan85

Did you consider discussing this on forum.openstreetmap.org? From my experience in the Dutch section they're happy to help with controlling problematic users and reverting changesets.


----------



## ChrisZwolle

Only Pécs is signed on A5. I'd expected Budapest, Pécs isn't even directly along this motorway, but 35 kilometers off M6.


----------



## ntom

keber said:


> There is a guy in OSM community that puts many planned projects or even just proposals as projects under construction. I already removed some of those projects and confronted him with private messaging but with no success as he is very rude as he was doing that not just in Slovenia but also other countries, including Croatia. OSM online editors are not very straightforward (or my knowledge with editing is limited) so reverting such changes or removing edits from particular user is not easy.


Fixed the tags on this section. It's now set to 'proposed' which is not visible by default.









Changeset: 129098656 | OpenStreetMap


OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.




www.openstreetmap.org


----------



## Eulanthe

ChrisZwolle said:


> Only Pécs is signed on A5. I'd expected Budapest, Pécs isn't even directly along this motorway, but 35 kilometers off M6.


I suppose it's the same in the opposite direction, with Pecs/Mohacs signed only.

I really wish we could start to see proper long distance signage on such routes: Budapest should be signed from Svilaj at least, if not Sarajevo. Likewise in the other direction, Sarajevo should be signed from Budapest.


----------



## x-type

Yeah, it's really bad. Especialy bad is that Budapest isn't mentioned even on direction confirmation distance signs after the intersections, what is non sense.


----------



## theAlien

ChrisZwolle said:


> Only Pécs is signed on A5. I'd expected Budapest, Pécs isn't even directly along this motorway, but 35 kilometers off M6.


Budapest was signed eight times ... before Pécs (perhaps someone wants to take this route to Pécs as well )


















































.. photos taken from this video


----------



## Corvinus

Eulanthe said:


> Likewise in the other direction, Sarajevo should be signed from Budapest.


I wouldn't object, especially given that a few BIH signs aready do have Budapest posted. Could as well happen once the motorway from Budapest to the HR/BIH border becomes contiguous.
That would be the 2nd city I am aware of - after Brno - in a non-neighbouring country signposted in Hungary ...


----------



## SRC_100

Kada će biti otvaranje ovog deonice autoputa?


----------



## MichiH

^^ English Only


----------



## x-type

SRC_100 said:


> Kada će biti otvaranje ovog deonice autoputa?


Nowadays should be technical inspection, and if they give green light, opening should be during december.
I have found recent words from minister - they will immidiately continue to build remaining 5 km to the border crossing, expecting to open it by the end of 2024 (sounds optimistic to me, but...). It seems that they are nivelating it together with opening of Hungarian section. I am wonderint if that will be first real Schengen border crossing in HR without facilities.


----------



## Adrian.02

Since Croatia will enter the Schengen zone on the 1st of January, are there plans for new road/rail crossings on the Hungarian border section?(I read something about the Sárok-Kneževo border crossing, while the villages Illocska and Luč are also quite close to eachother on the map, and this may become a new link between the two countries, am I right?)


----------



## belerophon

Abd which disruptions will it cause at the border to BiH? Or what is done to prevent those especially for locals?


----------



## pleja

Adrian.02 said:


> Since Croatia will enter the Schengen zone on the 1st of January, are there plans for new road/rail crossings on the Hungarian border section?(I read something about the Sárok-Kneževo border crossing, while the villages Illocska and Luč are also quite close to eachother on the map, and this may become a new link between the two countries, am I right?)


I think this is an article to further explore on.


----------



## kdpy

Connector like this would be very helpful before completion of A5


----------



## MichiH

^^ sure but is it feasible? It is technically but there must be a legal process since Croatia is a EU member. Even if the road would just be temporary. The legal process will likely take (much) longer than the construction of A5 itself.

Edit: The Hungarian road looks fine though.


----------



## Adrian.02

MichiH said:


> Edit: The Hungarian road looks fine though.


Also, in the opposite direction, the hungarian side has already built their part of the road leading to the croatian border.


----------



## MichiH

Adrian.02 said:


> Also, in the opposite direction, the hungarian side has already built their part of the road leading to the croatian border.


What do you mean? The motorway? There is no (existing) border crossing nearby...


----------



## Luki_SL

^^I think, he mean temporary 1x1 road. In fact there is no existing border crossing.


----------



## Adrian.02

MichiH said:


> There is no (existing) border crossing nearby...


I think you misunderstood my comment: The hungarian side has already built a road, leading to the croatian border, basically finishing the works on their side, for the planned Sarok-Knezevo border crossing:








2024-re érhet össze az M6-os a horvátországi autópályával


Új határátkelők épülnek és a gázrendszereket is összekötnék.




infostart.hu






> Translated from HUNGARIAN:
> A new crossing will be opened between Sárok and Főherceglak (Knezevo) and Zákány and Gotalovo, shortening the detours to a few kilometers for the locals.


And here is the road sign pointing to Croatia, literally 200 meters in the other direction, on the link you sent from Google StreetView:








Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.com


----------



## MichiH

Adrian.02 said:


> I think you misunderstood my comment: The hungarian side has already built a road, leading to the croatian border





Adrian.02 said:


> Also, in the opposite direction, the hungarian side has already built their part of the road leading to the croatian border.


fine. However, I don't know what "opposite direction" means. The GSV image direction? So what... I just pointed to the Hungarian road itself.

It's also fine that there are plans for a local border crossing, but the point is the same: Croatia needs to build a road. I don't know which road planning and implementation is more advanced in Croatia - A5 or the local road. The local road might be built quicker in technical terms but there are also legal and funding aspects. Shifting priorities also costs time....


----------



## Adrian.02

MichiH said:


> fine. However, I don't know what "opposite direction" means. The GSV image direction? So what... I just pointed to the Hungarian road itself.


Yes, the opposite direction of the StreetView imagery, heading east, instead of west(Basically, you would've just needed to turn around, in order to see the sign pointing at "HR"-Croatia from the position you sent, that was all).
You did point to the Hungarian road itself, but what I tried to emphasise is that there is in fact a plan for such a connection, like the one @kdpy drew on the map.


----------



## kdpy

How advanced are preparations to construction of A7?


----------



## The Wild Boy

x-type said:


> I have found my photo of suicide lane, this is what allingment Kikovica - Oštrovica was from its construction till 2008 (photo taken around 2003):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here is the photo of motorway Orehovica - Kikovica opened in 1971 (photo from 1970es):


So yes, this is indeed what i thought about being a suicide lane. I don't know if you saw, i left a link in my original reply. We also have them across my country, and of course by design they are deadly (I've given an explanation in my country's thread as to why), but we all more or less know why.


----------



## Verso

Looks like they've renamed the interchange Matulji (A7×A8) into "Učka". I don't know why they did that, I think Matulji was better.


----------



## pleja

So it seems that Albania/Kosovo<->Italy over Peljesac bridge/A1 has become a thing since bridge was built + Schengen. There are huge queues at MNE border...


----------



## Puležan

Verso said:


> Looks like they've renamed the interchange Matulji (A7×A8) into "Učka". I don't know why they did that, I think Matulji was better.


They have renamed many exits, junctions and rest areas on our motorways:

Jankomir (A2xA3) is now Zagreb zapad (west)
Ivanja Reka (A3xA4) is now Zagreb istok (east)
Plitvice rest area on Zagreb bypass is now Zagreb rest area
Ravna Gora rest area on A6 is now Kupjak
Dugopolje exit on A1 should become Split
and many others.

The point was to name them after better-known destination (Zagreb west is better than Jankomir, Split is better than Dugopolje...).


----------



## Verso

pleja said:


> So it seems that Albania/Kosovo<->Italy over Peljesac bridge/A1 has become a thing since bridge was built + Schengen. There are huge queues at MNE border...


I don't know why that would make a big difference, but around Christmas I saw a car and a bus from Albania on the HR-Postojna road (which isn't the best choice, if you're going from Rijeka to Italy).


----------



## x-type

Puležan said:


> They have renamed many exits, junctions and rest areas on our motorways:
> 
> Jankomir (A2xA3) is now Zagreb zapad (west)
> Ivanja Reka (A3xA4) is now Zagreb istok (east)
> Plitvice rest area on Zagreb bypass is now Zagreb rest area
> Ravna Gora rest area on A6 is now Kupjak
> Dugopolje exit on A1 should become Split
> and many others.
> 
> *The point was to name them after better-known destination (Zagreb west is better than Jankomir, Split is better than Dugopolje...).*


Not always better. Service area Brinje is now called after archaeological site in Brinje (Sokolac).


----------



## BG_AT

Does anybody know how that waiting line can be when there is or should be „schengen“ on exactly that border between slovenia and croatia ? :-O


----------



## x-type

BG_AT said:


> Does anybody know how that waiting line can be when there is or should be „schengen“ on exactly that border between slovenia and croatia ? :-O


Have you ever seen road works zone at the motorway? You don't stop there, just slow down. If there is high traffic, very possibly will happen congestion with completely stopped traffic several hunderds of meters behind. 
The same thing here: high traffic being slowed down due to facilities -> traffic jam.


----------



## BG_AT

x-type said:


> Have you ever seen road works zone at the motorway? You don't stop there, just slow down. If there is high traffic, very possibly will happen congestion with completely stopped traffic several hunderds of meters behind.
> The same thing here: high traffic being slowed down due to facilities -> traffic jam.


Okay thanks for the explanation. I didnt know that there are road works near to the border


----------



## x-type

BG_AT said:


> Okay thanks for the explanation. I didnt know that there are road works near to the border


There are no. I am just explaining you that any obstacles, whether road works, car accident or former booths do the same thing: slowing down the traffic what leads to traffic jam.


----------



## theAlien

Traffic speed is conditioned by traffic regulation here (allowed speed 30 and 50). It is normal to expect in traffic jams that from a speed of 130 on the open part of the motorway, there will be a slowdown and stoppage of traffic here.






#sretno #hrvatska #hrvatskatiktok #hrvatskatiktok🇭🇷 #fyphr #balkanti... | TikTok


TikTok video from Vlado Sestan / putovanja (@vladosestan): "#sretno #hrvatska #hrvatskatiktok #hrvatskatiktok🇭🇷 #fyphr #balkantiktok #zagrebtiktok #tiktokzagreb #schengen #granica #slovenija #macelj". Police - David Angelux & DiexD & David Angelux & DiexD.




www.tiktok.com










































A similar situation exists at the crossing between Slovenia and Austria:








Border crossing station Spielfeld-Šentilj v Slovenskih goricah · 8471 Spielfeld, Austria


★★★★☆ · Border crossing station




www.google.com


----------



## Slovenia_

The problem on border crossing Macelj/Gruškovje is that there is only one line for cars on slovenian side, as on Bregana/Obrežje there are two lines.

The next problem is that a lot of cars stop there to buy vignette and because there is not enough parking spaces they make a mess (i dont understand why people are waiting for the last change if they can buy it all over in Croatia (INA, Petrol, Crodux etc.).


----------



## The Wild Boy

Do they plan to remove the border crossing facilities, and maybe convert them into rest areas?


----------



## Slovenia_

The Wild Boy said:


> Do they plan to remove the border crossing facilities, and maybe convert them into rest areas?


I dont think so, because normally is rest area already somewhere near border.


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## Motorway Fan

Slovenia_ said:


> The problem on border crossing Macelj/Gruškovje is that there is only one line for cars on slovenian side, as on Bregana/Obrežje there are two lines.
> 
> The next problem is that a lot of cars stop there to buy vignette and because there is not enough parking spaces they make a mess (i dont understand why people are waiting for the last change if they can buy it all over in Croatia (INA, Petrol, Crodux etc.).


"A4-E59, motorway, at Gruškovje - near border crossing Gruškovje and Ptuj in the direction of Maribor, roadworks, traffic obstructed. "

They are taking care of it, active construction zone right at the vignette selling point:


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## theAlien

Slovenia_ said:


> The problem on border crossing Macelj/Gruškovje is that there is only one line for cars on slovenian side


Why, due to roadworks?
Here, a few months ago:








Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.com


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## BG_AT

Motorway Fan said:


> "A4-E59, motorway, at Gruškovje - near border crossing Gruškovje and Ptuj in the direction of Maribor, roadworks, traffic obstructed. "
> 
> They are taking care of it, active construction zone right at the vignette selling point:


What i do not understand is:
on slovenia side and croatian side is the possibility to open 2-3 lanes for cars not to create any traffic jam !
Why do they open just 1 ? thats not logical for me !


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## tfd543

The Wild Boy said:


> Do they plan to remove the border crossing facilities, and maybe convert them into rest areas?


Gruskovje could actually be a Nice rest area given the beautiful nature. Maybe also a motel with windows away from the traffic.


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## Adamus!

In time, everything will change; the gates will be demolished, the customs services buildings will probably remain, as is the case at the border crossing between Poland and Germany in Kołbaskowo.
Pre-Schengen border crossing:




After its reconstruction:


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