# Aljazeera: Workers' misery belies Dubai's glitter



## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

Naz UK said:


> Normarandlee...a simple civil question, if indeed you're capable of answering such questions...."What interest do you have in this forum, besides your blatant Dubai-bashing?".


 Dubai bashing? Talk about workers rights in Dubai is bashing? I don't participate in cheap shots or untruths. So I think your idea of bashing is a misnomer in the first place.

Other then that there is so much pridefull myopic denial in these forums that it is simply compelling.


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## smussuw (Feb 1, 2004)

malec the number is a lie


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## malec (Apr 17, 2005)

600 would be more than one per tower, maybe that was the figure for deaths in general and not necessarily construction related


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## Naz UK (Jan 28, 2006)

nomarandlee said:


> Dubai bashing? Talk about workers rights in Dubai is bashing? I don't participate in cheap shots or untruths. So I think your idea of bashing is a misnomer in the first place.
> 
> Other then that there is so much pridefull myopic denial in these forums that it is simply compelling.


Just answer the question, you fucking brainless retarded moron.Thank you..er..please?


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## malec (Apr 17, 2005)

nomarandlee said:


> Dubai bashing? Talk about workers rights in Dubai is bashing? I don't participate in cheap shots or untruths. So I think your idea of bashing is a misnomer in the first place.
> 
> Other then that there is so much pridefull myopic denial in these forums that it is simply compelling.


I don't think you're Dubai bashing but I've noticed you have very little interest in the development of middle eastern cities. In fact I don't think I've seen a post by you in the world forums yet (relating to development) either. However almost all your posts are about politics and this sort of stuff and I think people here have gotten the point that you have different political beliefs to them. People aren't always going to believe what you believe and you should just accept there's not much you can do about that. These discussions never go anywhere.

I don't think there's anyone here who thinks the workers' conditions are acceptable. There's not much more to discuss. The only thing you can really discuss is how fast they're trying to improve the situation which compared to the burj dubai's construction, is not fast enough. I don't think it's quite at lighthouse speed but maybe, I dunno, damas tower speed


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

malec said:


> 600 would be more than one per tower, maybe that was the figure for deaths in general and not necessarily construction related


Yeah, 850 was the number of all fatalities in the construction sector in the UAE, including work accidents, suicides, natural couses and other non-work related accidents.


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

Naz UK said:


> Just answer the question, you fucking brainless retarded moron.Thank you..er..please?



How does this guy not get banned while others.......anyway

I will not be I will not be drawn into your sophomoric tit for tat bigoted name calling.

I did answer the question..



> Other then that there is so much pridefull myopic denial in these forums that it is simply compelling.


 It is so compelling that one can' help but refute it.


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

> malec]I don't think you're Dubai bashing but I've noticed you have very little interest in the development of middle eastern cities.


 
Development is great anywhere. There is a world out there beyond developments and mega-projects though (including very much the workers and conditions surrounding those projects) and I simply reply in those threads that go beyond those topics. 98% of my post are located in the sky bar or general forums where there issues other then the stict definitions of development and construction.




> In fact I don't think I've seen a post by you in the world forums yet (relating to development) either. However almost all your posts are about politics and this sort of stuff and I think people here have gotten the point that you have different political beliefs to them


 Sure I have. I have posted in a variety of forums both construction and development and otherwise. Does one have to be in love with or get up all caught in the ins and outs of mega-projects to dare voince an opinion on matters outside that scope?


.


> People aren't always going to believe what you believe and you should just accept there's not much you can do about that. These discussions never go anywhere.


 Well, having one sided and myopic views and opinions will not change much either.




> I don't think there's anyone here who thinks the workers' conditions are acceptable. There's not much more to discuss. The only thing you can really discuss is how fast they're trying to improve the situation which compared to the burj dubai's construction, is not fast enough. I don't think it's quite at lighthouse speed but maybe, I dunno, damas tower speed


 I think many here do care. I suspect some do not though because to be really for workers rights some worry about Dubai not getting its "boom" and all the superlatives it promises. I do in fact think that is much more important to some here then how and means of the end result.


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## Naz UK (Jan 28, 2006)

nomarandlee said:


> How does this guy not get banned while others.......anyway
> 
> I will not be I will not be drawn into your sophomoric tit for tat bigoted name calling.
> 
> ...



Err....if I can just...er..excuse me...there we are...get past your EGO....and say no you didn't answer my question. The question again "What interest do you have in this forum...That is United Arab Emirates?".

Now, from the country that invented quiz shows...please just give a straight answer. NO, you can't phone a friend, you balls will NOT be chopped off if you get it wrong....and NO, changing the subject and going off on a tagent doesn't denote an answer. Thank you again.


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## Pish-REZ-pash (Oct 20, 2005)

nomarandlee said:


> Other then that there is so much pridefull myopic denial in these forums that it is simply compelling.


i.e everyone wants to talk about Dubai


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

Naz UK said:


> Err....if I can just...er..excuse me...there we are...get past your EGO....and say no you didn't answer my question. The question again "What interest do you have in this forum...That is United Arab Emirates?".



I did, maybe one's cognitive abilities is not up to par to understand the answer? Obviously the problem was not in the answer but instead what you want the answer to be and as a result are showing obvious frustration resulting in sophomoric name calling and berating others.


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## Naz UK (Jan 28, 2006)

So you dont want to answer the question then? Where did you learn that little nugget of avoiding questions? You dearly president perhaps?


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## Naz UK (Jan 28, 2006)

Frustration resulting in sophomoric name calling and berating others? Hmmm..now where I have seen such a thing before....Oh yes..i remember. That's how your President reacted when someone flew planes into a couple of skyscrapers in 2001.


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

Naz UK said:


> Frustration resulting in sophomoric name calling and berating others? Hmmm..now where I have seen such a thing before....Oh yes..i remember. That's how your President reacted when someone flew planes into a couple of skyscrapers in 2001.


 Oh my, way to fly off the coop in extreme irrelevance. Not that I am a Bush fan but how did he "berate" others and go into name calling after 9-11? All you heard from the guy how "Islam is a relgion of peace" and it was done by a "small fanatic of extremist". The horror and bigotry of that man :runaway: 

If you refering to names like "evil doers" when asked about terrorist then all I have to say one needs to grow a spine if you think that is insensative.

Would be interesting to see how the UAE rulers would treat people though if the unfortunate circumstances effected their cities. Considering how despicably they treat foreigners now I dread to think.


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## Naz UK (Jan 28, 2006)

Little wonder people the world over increasingly hate Americanism. When its spawning crossbred specimens of fungi and amoebae, a perfect mutation of which we have in Nomarandlee. Poor fellow, clearly a failed NASA/US military Area 51 experiment of the late 60's, or an offspring of.


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## malec (Apr 17, 2005)

I want to know why you persist and reply to all the shitty comments. These discussions are endless because everytime someone posts something short and stupid like "fuk u! go back to bushland" there are always a ton of replies. You seem to always reply with a lengthy post saying why that's wrong and giving reasons for it etc. When people make exaggerations and the likes they know perfectly well what they're saying and that it's not exactly true, they just say it because they're too lazy and can't be arsed writing proper replies. These types of posts are not really supposed to be replied to and are to be ignored but instead, tons of people reply back saying he's shit, stupid and so on. In fact, pretty much every flame war starts this way, with a short exagerated comment.

There's no point in making an intelligent reply to one of these posts since no matter how good your post is, if they're not interested in discussing whatever it is, then your post was a waste of time. You might think Naz is making an ass of himself but if you write an essay on why he's making an ass of himself then you've become the fool for wasting so much effort. Just ignore posts that have nothing to do with the subject, then whole pages of pointless shite won't exist anymore


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

nomarandlee said:


> And luve2bebrown claimed there censosrhip was dead in the UAE. If that is not censorship I don't know what is.


lying troll


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## Naz UK (Jan 28, 2006)

^^ I agree, so in summary, ban nomarandlee. That way everyone will be happy.


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

luv2bebrown said:


> lying troll



not at all. In fact you have said in other threads that locals in Dubai get a very comphrensive media outlets and views. I remember you clearly going on a long rant about how media censorship was largely overhyped by jealous evil western entities (or something to that effect) 

Allowing a movie that shows an evil American conspiracy to kill Arabian sheiks while cutting out harmless scenes of work camps pretty much counters your assertions.


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

Naz UK said:


> Little wonder people the world over increasingly hate Americanism. .



Garbage post....One could just as easily turn around and ask the same question.......


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## smussuw (Feb 1, 2004)

he never gets bored :weird:


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

nomarandlee said:


> not at all. In fact you have said in other threads that locals in Dubai get a very comphrensive media outlets and views. I remember you clearly going on a long rant about how media censorship was largely overhyped by jealous evil western entities (or something to that effect)
> 
> Allowing a movie that shows an evil American conspiracy to kill Arabian sheiks while cutting out harmless scenes of work camps pretty much counters your assertions.


HAHAHAHAH EXACTLY!!!!!!! media censorship is overhyped, and we do get comprehensive media outlets and views because the city is so internationalized. when did i ever say there was no censorship? hahaha you really are a lying troll!

since you have never been to the region, you have the real arrogantly ignorant stereotypical view that the UAE is a closed-information society with no access to real information. do you really honestly believe the government can hide from us the information that you receive? do you really think we cannot get access to unedited versions of Syriana? do you really think we do not know the movie is being edited?

you also conveniently forget to mention that scenes showing the rampant corruption among Arabian oil sheikhs are NOT edited out of the movie. you also conveniently forget to realize the Dubai government allowed the camps to be filmed and actually is using the the filming of the movie in Dubai to attract more filmmakers.

take your subjective trolling/dubai bashing elsewhere.


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

nomarandlee said:


> Garbage post....One could just as easily turn around and ask the same question.......


Actually, while before people didn't care about alot of things in USA, now they are willing to tell to your face what they really think about you.


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## nomarandlee (Sep 24, 2005)

> _HAHAHAHAH EXACTLY!!!!!!! media censorship is overhyped, and we do get comprehensive media outlets and views because the city is so internationalized. when did i ever say there was no censorship? hahaha you really are a lying troll!_


 How am I a lying troll? You agree with me on how I remembered what you said. That is being a lying troll? You basically said that "censorship" was much to do about nothing. I should have been more clear in my statement of your apologies of censorship. Of that I may be guilty.



> _since you have never been to the region, you have the real arrogantly ignorant stereotypical view that the UAE is a closed-information society with no access to real information. do you really honestly believe the government can hide from us the information that you receive? do you really think we cannot get access to unedited versions of Syriana? do you really think we do not know the movie is being edited?_


 I don't think a government should make that hard in the first place. You almost sound proud of the parent-child relationship that the government has with its populace. Very sad really. 
And while you may be able to get some information from the outside in Dubai (even though the government as show in that U.S. report shows they try to hinder by way of blocking Internet sites and so) what is far more important is what the local media can say. 
Will any local paper be able to do in depth journalism that is so necessary to examine what is going on in Dubai or the UAE? You think the London Times or the Washington Post is going to be able on a daily basis to tell citizens of the UAE what is REALLY going on in the country? Is CNN, BBC, or Al-Jazzera will tell the people of Dubai an independent voice in depth on what really goes on in the country? If you think that is not needed and that is being provided by a locally censored press then one is crazy.
If the government will not even let scenes of work camps in a movie be shown I SERIOUSLY doubt they will let real investigative journalism do the job it needs to do in the Arabic daily paper beyond the most scripted and base journalistic standards. 



> _you also conveniently forget to mention that scenes showing the rampant corruption among Arabian oil sheikhs are NOT edited out of the movie_


 Great. That deserves some sort of praise? If the American government took out the ending where they blow up the trucks to play for its domestic audiance that doesn't change the integrity of the movie at all right? LOL

Did you also say that Americans didn't get the real truth or info and were largely ignorant?(tell me if I am wrong on that one I seem to remember something like that come out of your mouth). Kind of funny that you would make that claim and then talk about how exposed Dubais population was even though they are censored up the whazoo and are so protected they can't even see a few harmless work camp scenes in a movie.



> ._ you also conveniently forget to realize the Dubai government allowed the camps to be filmed and actually is using the the filming of the movie in Dubai to attract more filmmakers._


 Who cares if they allowed filming there. The U.S. also let M.Moore film Fahrenheit 9-11 on its soil yet if they cut out important scenes of the movie it didn't want it would really matter a crap would it!!!!! The fact is that Dubai leaders are too chicken little to even let their OWN PEOPLE see those images which do not even take up five minutes of the movie. How proud and noble that is. Your apologies for such rank censorship are not suprsing though. It is also abhorrent the patronizing attitude of Dubais rulers that their self image is too sensitive protect from its people that they dare not allow such scenes to be shown. 





> > Actually, while before people didn't care about alot of things in USA, now they are willing to tell to your face what they really think about you.


 Great, I would rather people be open about what they think. Even if it is ugly. 
All I ask is also think about how and maybe why your region (the UAE that is) isn't the most beloved, trusted, or respected as much as you would maybe like as well. And it goes far beyond jealousy or fear I can tell you.


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

^^ I was talking about the rest of the WESTERN world!!!


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## Tinknocker (Mar 12, 2006)

I'm a construction worker in the US and for the most part we get paid a fairly decent wage and most tradesmen are required to have some advanced schooling to work in their trade and qualify for the job, so I find it hard to believe there are un-educated workers doing some of the tedious work that is required in such HUGE construction projects. 

For example, i'm an HVAC fabricator/installer and on a large job such as a skyscraper ideally you need a crew of 20-30 guys to get it done on schedual, now out of those 20-30 guys to have the job run good 5-7 of the guys have to know exactly what is going on with the blueprint and other trades, now the rest of these guys just can't be grunts, they have to know how to read the print without a foreman around all the time to make simple decisions, they need to know how to read a tape measure good and have knowledge of all the tools used on the job, so really there is room for about 5-6 grunts that can run and get you things you need without really knowing what is going on, so my question is are these guys running the job for their trade getting paid poorly also?? Where are they getting trained to weld critical things like steam and gas pipe or wiring the controlls for intricate HVAC systems?? These are jobs that just can't be done by anyone with a pair of hands.


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## DUBAI (Aug 24, 2004)

construction sites here employ a lot more foremen than they do in the west, they are not paid anywhere near as much so its a realitivly effeciant way of doing things. most of the companies recruit skilled trade work out of colleges in india. every certificate has to be attested in a rediculusly complicated process, ensuring they know what they are doing. the foreman will soon realise if they dont, and the financial consequenses for the individual who has to pay for his tickets without getting the job arent good.


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## Tinknocker (Mar 12, 2006)

Ahh, that sheds a little more light on the subject. I figured they were getting skilled workers somehow, but I wasn't shure where they were comimg from and if they were willing to work for a poor wage. Most people just don't realize what goes into projects of that size and the various skills it takes to do the job correctly. Just because we come off the job dirty and beat doesn't mean we are dumb asses like alot of people still believe.


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## Krazy (Apr 27, 2004)

how much do construction workers get paid in the states?


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

at the very minimum around $15/hour.
minimum.

but i think its not unusual to see $25/hour construction jobs.


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## dubaiflo (Jan 3, 2005)

^^ more than here 

skilled workers or the average one?


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

i dunno about that. 
as far as i know, they are all considered "skilled."


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## Tinknocker (Mar 12, 2006)

luv2bebrown said:


> i dunno about that.
> as far as i know, they are all considered "skilled."


I guess you could consider most as skilled, but skilled in what is the important question. A skilled drywaller isn't going to touch what a skilled HVAC tech makes nor is there any schooling involved in being a drywaller, where as the HVAC tech will have 4 years+ wrapped up in schooling. As far as pay, yeah if you have been in your trade for a few years and are a hard worker that is on time and there every day $15-25 is about right depending on the trade.


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