# NEW ZEALAND | Railways



## Coccodrillo (Sep 30, 2005)

Do you have any freight statistics? Like how many tonnes per year and how many trains there are on the busiest section (excluding suburban trains).



StuZealand said:


> I'm not sure what Auckland commuter trains will use; I'll have to google it. It might be the same as Wellington's system.


25 kV AC would be more logic, in view of a future complete electrification of the NIMT.


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## twentyfivetacos (Jun 11, 2011)

Neb81 said:


> IIRC the Auckland-Wellington line is of a pretty high standard and almost entirely electrified, so it shouldn't be too difficult to infill the remaining un-wired sections and get some multi-voltage EMUs to provide a more modern modern semi-high-speed 160km/h service, maybe using the QR TiltTrain design.


High standard? Isn't the speed limit of the line only 80km/h?


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## StuZealand (May 13, 2011)

Coccodrillo said:


> Do you have any freight statistics? Like how many tonnes per year and how many trains there are on the busiest section (excluding suburban trains).
> 
> 
> 25 kV AC would be more logic, in view of a future complete electrification of the NIMT.



I'll try to find some stats about freight later on.

I found this article on Auckland's electric commuter trains. They are actually 25 kV:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10857062


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## bagus70 (Dec 8, 2011)

StuZealand said:


> Here's a pic of the Mohaka viaduct on this line. It's the highest viaduct in New Zealand at 95 metres.


Very impressive bridge.


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## StuZealand (May 13, 2011)

Here's some more info about the NIMT line electrification project:

http://www.ipenz.org.nz/heritage/itemdetail.cfm?itemid=100

The $260 million price would have been in 1984's money.


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## Coccodrillo (Sep 30, 2005)

I fail to understand the logic behind the numbering of the Matangi trains: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NZR_FP_class

They have numbers from 4103 to 4610, but they are not sequential.

Apparently the first three digit of each fleet number form an increasing sequence, so maybe the last digit is a check digit?

But even then, it's still strange: numbering would start from 410 (not from 400, or 401), and there are holes (411, 426, 430 and others are missing).



> Electrification will occur between Britomart, Papakura in the south and Swanson in the west and will be 25 kV AC from overhead lines. This is the same voltage as the electrified North Island Main Trunk between Te Rapa and Palmerston North (the Wellington suburban network uses 1500 V DC), _however it will be at a considerably higher power rating rendering the EF class electric locomotives used on the main trunk incompatible.[citation needed]_ It is KiwiRail is responsible for providing the overhead wiring and track and signalling upgrades.[3]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auckland_railway_electrification

What does it mean? Auckland network will also use 25 kV 50 Hz...


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## StuZealand (May 13, 2011)

Coccodrillo said:


> I fail to understand the logic behind the numbering of the Matangi trains: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NZR_FP_class
> 
> They have numbers from 4103 to 4610, but they are not sequential.
> 
> ...


I have no idea either what the logic might be behind that numbering scheme.
The 4,000 HP electric locos that are used for freight trains over the central north island also have big gaps in their numbering scheme. See this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_EF_class_locomotive



Coccodrillo said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auckland_railway_electrification
> 
> What does it mean? Auckland network will also use 25 kV 50 Hz...


"This is the same voltage as the electrified North Island Main Trunk between Te Rapa and Palmerston North (the Wellington suburban network uses 1500 V DC), *however it will be at a considerably higher power rating rendering the EF class electric locomotives used on the main trunk incompatible*."

I don't know who wrote this or what it actually means. It could well be incorrect (it wouldn't be the first Wikipedia article to be so).

However, the EF class were designed for hauling heavy freight trains, not lighter stop/start-on-a-regular-basis-passenger-trains.


I found this on Wikipedia today:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_FP_class_electric_multiple_unit

It's interesting to note that the new trains are actually AC powered. This means the power is drawn from the national grid (AC), converted to DC for the Wellington rail system, and then back into AC _again_ for the new trains! :nuts:


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## Coccodrillo (Sep 30, 2005)

The las must be a check digit, I see no other reason.

If you quit the last digit of the EF class numbers, all makes sense: 30007 ==> 3000, 30013 ==> 3001, 30036 ==> 3003 and so on. But, also here, some numbers are missing: 3002, 3017 and 3021.



> However, the EF class were designed for hauling heavy freight trains, not lighter stop/start-on-a-regular-basis-passenger-trains.


Sure, these freight locomotives are not designed for suburban service, but they should be able to run on suburban lines if there was need.



> It's interesting to note that the new trains are actually AC powered. This means the power is drawn from the national grid (AC), converted to DC for the Wellington rail system, and then back into AC again for the new trains!


Yes, but traction motors are certainly three-phase, like most modern electric motors for trains. Even trains built for 25 kV AC overhead line cannot use directly the 25 kV mono-phase, so the overhead line current must be converted to DC first (if it isn't already DC).


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## StuZealand (May 13, 2011)

Coccodrillo said:


> Yes, but traction motors are certainly three-phase, like most modern electric motors for trains. Even trains built for 25 kV AC overhead line cannot use directly the 25 kV mono-phase, so the overhead line current must be converted to DC first (if it isn't already DC).


Does that mean that there are three overhead DC lines on the cantenary? I'm no electrical expert, but I can't see how you'd convert 1 DC line into 3 phase power.

NZ has a long distance high voltage DC link from the south island to the north island. I think this has three conductors; one for each AC phase.

BTW, congrats on your 6,000th post.


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## Coccodrillo (Sep 30, 2005)

Thanks, I didn't ever notice my post count!

The first locomotives with three-phase motors (we are in the 1910s) needed two cables on the overhead lines for two phases, the third phase being the tracks. This because they received three phases directly from the power stations.

The 25 kV system is mono-phase, with the phase on the overhead line and the neutral in the tracks (to simplify, the single phase of the overhead line is one of the three phases of the electrical network, the neutral is both the earth and the three phases together). So the mono-phase is just one third of the three-phase network.

This mono-phase AC is converted to DC (which hasn't any phase, because it's DC), then again to three-phase AC.

So the cases today usually are:

DC electrification: 3-phase industrial grid > rectifier > DC overhead line > train > inverter > 3-phase AC motors

AC electrification: 3-phase industrial grid > 1-phase AC overhead line > train > rectifier > DC link > inverter > 3-phase AC motors

Other systems may include:

AC electrification: 3-phase industrial grid > 1-phase AC overhead line > train > rectifier > DC motors

3-phase AC electrification: 3-phase industrial grid > 3-phase overhead line > train > 3-phase AC motors

The inter-island link might be three phase (3 cables for the 3 phases + maybe the neutral) or an HVDC link (high voltage direct current) (2 cables in theory).

Extremely simplified, and if it's all correct because it's half past midnight...


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## Woonsocket54 (May 7, 2005)

Tranz Metro
http://www.tranzmetro.co.nz/Detail.aspx?ID=b3132b6e-a8fd-4253-be3d-da48e7c1fc9c



> *Tawa Station opens Monday 20 May 2013*
> 
> The existing station building has been removed. The station will have a new shelter, both platforms resurfaced, and maintenance work completed on the overbridge.
> 
> ...


Here is a photo of the roof going in from Fairfax NZ News










http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-pos...730/Tawa-train-station-refurbishment-complete


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## xinxingren (Jun 17, 2013)

*Auckland's first EMU Arrives*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eswKWY00Ra4


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

^^ This is for inner city travel, not inter city. You could post it in the Subways and Urban Transport section where there is an Auckland Public Transport thread.


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## StuZealand (May 13, 2011)

This is an advert currently playing on NZ television promoting rail travel. All the scenery is from NZ's Southern Alps.

It's one train journey that I'd love to take one day:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CORPm2QFdQ4


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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)




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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

^^ Same as above. This is more for intercity travel. The Auckland thread in the Subways and Urban Transport thread is better for Auckland urban rail. Thanks.


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## StuZealand (May 13, 2011)

*Last delivery of the day for lucky driver*



> A courier driver who needed to make a delivery to a house should have thought twice before parking his van on train tracks.
> 
> His van was, unsurprisingly, wiped out by a passing train.
> 
> ...


hno::bash:


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## dimlys1994 (Dec 19, 2010)

Today:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...and-trains-sold-to-tanzania-and-zimbabwe.html
> 
> *New Zealand trains sold to Tanzania and Zimbabwe*
> 27 Feb 2014
> ...


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## ramakrishna1984 (Jun 21, 2013)

Mott MacDonald has been selected to undertake the reference design for *the NZ$2.86bn ($2.44bn) upgrade of the City Rail Link* (CRL) project in Auckland, New Zealand.


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

The CRL is an Auckland project and belongs in the Auckland public transport thread in the Subways & Urban Transport thread. Thank you...

This thread is about the national train system in NZ.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

Really sad that this service was withdrawn. I mean, when I tried this around 2009, it was about the only service I could see leaving ChCh station's one platform, so it would be quite a significant loss. Has an alternative service replaced it?


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

doc7austin said:


> Trip Report on the Coastal Pacific Train Christchurch - Picton on the South Island.
> Sadely this service was withdrawn last March.
> 
> 
> ...



Has it really been withdrawn? As far as I know there was coastal damage that caused a service suspension at one point (roads were also blocked in the area). The official website is still active. Of course the service is suspended at present due to covid, but there is no reason to believe it won't be back again.









Coastal Pacific Train


Travel in scenic style on our Coastal Pacific Picton to Christchurch train, stopping at Blenheim and Kaikoura.




www.greatjourneysofnz.co.nz





EDIT: Found the news about the reopening of the line following the Kaikoura earthquake.









New Zealand's Coastal Pacific railway back on track after Kaikoura earthquake


South Island’s scenic Christchurch to Picton rail journey reopens on Saturday after earthquake damage led to closure in 2016




www.theguardian.com


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## zaphod (Dec 8, 2005)

Wikipedia doesn't say anything about a permanent closure. It looks like it's a tourist train that runs seasonally now, so if a 'season' was cancelled it would be out till the next year.


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## Rob73 (Jun 18, 2014)

Neb81 said:


> Absolutely great to see the government talking about this, never thought I'd see it! Tilting trains totally make sense in NZ - hopefully KiwiRail can benefit from the work Queensland Rail did with their electric tilt train service - that's definitely a template worth following for Auckland-Hamilton, and hopefully as you say one day through to Tauranga and Rotorua as well. I think a similar service would also work well replacing the Capital Connection between Welly and Palmerston, maybe taking advantage of faster running to extend it to Wanganui - closing the gaps in the wires, upgrading the NIMT and giving rapid rail to both major North Island cities all in one go.
> 
> I think the idea of a new line is OTT though, and is giving the Nats a free ride go on some dinosaur rant though, which is really bad - a project like this really needs to be apolitical. The NIMT is already going to get the wires extended from Papakura to Pukekohe, so it'd be a better use of resources to infill the wires from there to Hamilton, but take the time to do some minor deviations as well to remove some of the worst of the curves and regrade the others to make the most of the tilting technology. That would make better use of existing investments in new stations and electrification as well as also benefiting other long distance and freight services - freight down the NIMT would immediately need only one loco swap instead of two, and track improvements would also allow for higher axle loading.


Unless the govt is actually going to invest in a proper regional network just building Auckland Hamilton for a couple of hundred users per day is pissing taxpayer money up against the wall. To make this workable and a sensible use of money they need to go all in, Auckland, Hamilton, Tauranga.

Using Greater Auckland's plan the redline is the bare minimum that should be built. If possible using a new alignment combining the green line to Cambridge and the orange to Rotorua could work, Rotorua would be a challenge, the line into the CBD was removed and has been built over, the now mothballed line terminates quite a long way outside the CBD, a new underground link would have to be built to make service to Rotorua viable.

Cambridge has the same problem as Rotorua, the line has been removed


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## Aim9X (Jul 18, 2018)

The Green Party wants to push this plan, it is very similar to the one presented by Greater Auckland:










More details here:









Visions for the future of rail - Greater Auckland


For some time our rail network has suffered from a short-term approach to investment and development. The investment that has taken place has generally done so on an adhoc basis without clear thought put into long term development and how … Continued




www.greaterauckland.org.nz


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

Rob73 said:


> Unless the govt is actually going to invest in a proper regional network just building Auckland Hamilton for a couple of hundred users per day is pissing taxpayer money up against the wall. To make this workable and a sensible use of money they need to go all in, Auckland, Hamilton, Tauranga.
> 
> Using Greater Auckland's plan the redline is the bare minimum that should be built. If possible using a new alignment combining the green line to Cambridge and the orange to Rotorua could work, Rotorua would be a challenge, the line into the CBD was removed and has been built over, the now mothballed line terminates quite a long way outside the CBD, a new underground link would have to be built to make service to Rotorua viable.
> 
> ...


This would be fantastic, and is much needed for NZ. Being able to take the train to Tauranga would be amazing.


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

I can see logic for Rotorua having a station, but would Cambridge really be big enough. I mean, there are less than 20,000 people there. Railway's work best in high population areas. This is why they work so well in Europe.


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## zaphod (Dec 8, 2005)

160 km/h is 100 mph which isn't really high speed. But it would work over short distances between smaller cities and towns that really don't need commercial airline service.

Why are freight lines incorporated into this? I think some of the black lines on this map are abandoned or mothballed and some of the gray lines are still extant. I guess its implied they would be reactivated and/or have passenger service, but what freight exactly? Like I'm pretty sure some of those branches on the South Island were strictly for coal haulage, and I don't see the green party supporting government subsidized coal.


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## Blackraven (Jan 19, 2006)

Auckland Airport Rail Line would be nice.


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## Stuu (Feb 7, 2007)

zaphod said:


> 160 km/h is 100 mph which isn't really high speed. But it would work over short distances between smaller cities and towns that really don't need commercial airline service.
> 
> Why are freight lines incorporated into this? I think some of the black lines on this map are abandoned or mothballed and some of the gray lines are still extant. I guess its implied they would be reactivated and/or have passenger service, but what freight exactly? Like I'm pretty sure some of those branches on the South Island were strictly for coal haulage, and I don't see the green party supporting government subsidized coal.


 If you look at the larger map on the linked page it's a lot clearer that they are proposing services to just the larger towns, and some lines are shown as freight-only. The lines to the west coast of the South Island are not included as future passenger options


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## Rob73 (Jun 18, 2014)

Justme said:


> I can see logic for Rotorua having a station, but would Cambridge really be big enough. I mean, there are less than 20,000 people there. Railway's work best in high population areas. This is why they work so well in Europe.


Cambridge doesn't make sense because it's an end of the line station, it only makes sense if the line is continued on to somewhere else, Rotorua could be that somewhere else. The line would run from Cambridge via Putaruru then on to Rotorua, with a possible future extension to Taupo. See exiting North Island rail map.


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## Aim9X (Jul 18, 2018)

Cambridge is indeed very small, difficult to consider it as a viable option for one of the passenger branch.


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## Blackraven (Jan 19, 2006)

Do you guys think it is possible for New Zealand to build an Auckland Metro train service?


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## Rob73 (Jun 18, 2014)

Blackraven said:


> Do you guys think it is possible for New Zealand to build an Auckland Metro train service?


There is a passenger rail network in Auckland.


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## Rob73 (Jun 18, 2014)

Aim9X said:


> Cambridge is indeed very small, difficult to consider it as a viable option for one of the passenger branch.


It only makes sense if it's a stop on the way to somewhere else, ie Cambridge to Rotorua via Putaruru


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## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

Even then Cambridge doesn't make sense as it is just too small to warrant trains stopping there and slowing down their journeys


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## Aim9X (Jul 18, 2018)

The opening of the Hamilton to Auckland train postponed to November:









Hamilton-Auckland commuter train tipped to start in November


All going to plan, commuters should be able to hop on the service in November.




www.stuff.co.nz


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## Neb81 (Jun 14, 2010)

Rob73 said:


> Unless the govt is actually going to invest in a proper regional network just building Auckland Hamilton for a couple of hundred users per day is pissing taxpayer money up against the wall. To make this workable and a sensible use of money they need to go all in, Auckland, Hamilton, Tauranga.
> 
> Using Greater Auckland's plan the redline is the bare minimum that should be built. If possible using a new alignment combining the green line to Cambridge and the orange to Rotorua could work, Rotorua would be a challenge, the line into the CBD was removed and has been built over, the now mothballed line terminates quite a long way outside the CBD, a new underground link would have to be built to make service to Rotorua viable.
> 
> ...


In an ideal world, something like that would be great, but all NZ governments - whatever their stripe - are extremely wedded to the legacy of Rogernomics and "making the railways pay". Realistically incremental improvements and a few key projects are achieveable through targetted campaigns, or can piggy back on other projects, and by introducing basic services that can be ramped up or linked in to other works. 

The reason I suggested the Hamltion and Palmerston North services as electrified rapid/tilting EMU service is that both can piggy bank off the main project of completing the NIMT electrification, which heavily benefits freight and simplifies existing operations, whilst "co-incidentally" bringing huge benefits to regional passenger rail. It also builds the case for electrification of the route through to Tauranga as a logical next step, which again brings big benefits to both freight and pax traffic, so makes an easier sell to govt.

As for the other spurs...
Cambridge: Although not a big town I think it would be worth considering a "Basic" service using very light weight diesel vehicles (something like the PPMs in the UK). Much of the alignment still exists, and the missing section can easily be relaid in the road median either by re-using older, lightweight rail recovered from upgrade works elsewhere, or by adopting a "tram-train" model and using "minimum dig" tram tracks such as the LR-55 (https://trampower.co.uk/lr55-track/). These couuld run as a basic shuttle service into hamilton using only basic signalling (running either one or two units on the branch and not allowing other operations such as freight). This would feed additional traffic into the rapid EMU service for onward travel as well as serve local needs, so for a modest additional cost it make the main business case for the rapid rail much better.

Rotorua: Reconencting the original station is a non-starter, but restoring service to a point that's convienient for the CBD wouldn't be hugely difficult, and combined with the other benefits of rail over driving, would make a good case. The existing alignment should definitely be preserved as far as possible. Looking at sat images the track is still in place as far as the "mini station" that served the old railcar services on Lake Rd, and it would be fairly easy to re-open as far as the Mitre 10 at Pukuatua st, which is easily walkable from the CBD, and has more than enough space for a simple terminus station, some basic facilities and parking. My take on this would be that it _would_ be viable, but only after the main Tauranga rapid EMU service is in place. Initially run it as a diesel railcar shuttle connecting to each Auckland bound rapid service, building the case for eventual electrification to restore both direct long distance passenger service through to Auckland. 

Waiuku: This should be run as a lightweight railcar shuttle from the outset of rapid service to Auckland. Track and station are still in place. This could even be started before rapid service, as there are already plans to extend the wires and EMU commuter runs to Pukekohe, so the existing DMU shuttles could simply be redeployed to the Waiuku branch once the EMU services start, getting a modal shift underway - though they might be a bit overkill for the traffic levels involved.


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## doc7austin (Jun 24, 2012)

New Zealand by Rail - part 3: Interislander Ferry Picton - Wellington:








part 1 (TranzAlpine Train Greymouth - Christchurch) and part 2 (Coastal Pacific Train Christchurch - Picton) were posted in this board already. In July I will post part 4 (Northern Explorer Train Wellington - Auckland).


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## Short (Dec 16, 2015)

doc7austin said:


> New Zealand by Rail - part 3: Interislander Ferry Picton - Wellington:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It will be interesting with what the NZ Government will replace the current 3 ferries with 2 new vessels in the near future.


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## hkskyline (Sep 13, 2002)

Ja1271 heads along the waterfront by Phil Clark, on Flickr


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