# Kowloon Walled City



## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

I hope this is the right place to discuss this since this section is skyscrapers, structures and architecture.

But I've been fascinated with this mysterious structures even if they are demolished. 

Anyway, for those who don't know, this is the Kowloon Walled City which was one of the most depressed areas in HK at that time. The place was originally a fort and became of the largest slums in the city. Most lower income immigrants from the mainland settled in The Walled City where conditions are some of the world in the city. It also became a haven for crooks, triads, drug addicts and illegal dentists. Even if it's gone, the city itself is a taboo, an example of urban decay and architectural craziness


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## Saigoneseguy (Mar 6, 2005)

A piece of urban lost in vaults of history.

High-rises slums, like in those cyberpunk sci-fies.

Like metropolis' zone 6, like Coruscant  deepest level. 

I love it!


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## JohnnyMass (Feb 6, 2005)

fantastic! are there any apartments for rent still?:lol:


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## Marathoner (Oct 1, 2005)

JohnnyMass said:


> fantastic! are there any apartments for rent still?:lol:


Do you really want one? The rent was cheap. Only thing it doesn't exist anymore.


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## Yuval (Oct 22, 2005)

How many people lived there?


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## redstone (Nov 15, 2003)

How can such a large illegal structure exist? :eek2:


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## LSyd (Aug 31, 2003)

Yuval said:


> How many people lived there?


i think there was 50-60,000 at its max.

redstone, from what i've read, it was in sort of a "no man's land" where there was a lack of police power; it was outside British control, outside of mainland China's control, and the local police turned their back on it.

i'm also interested in this oddity.

-


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## Andrew (Sep 11, 2002)

It was a small patch of land in HK that was still under control of the Chinese, therefore the British controlled HK police had no juristiction over it. As far as I know the Chinese were happy just to leave it alone. Therefore it was basically ruled by the triads. Absolutely fascinating place, I wish I was old enough to have been able to go and see it before they knocked it down. 15 stories of completely unplanned shanty town, I can't even imagine how it even supported it's own weight let alone the people living there!!


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## redstone (Nov 15, 2003)

Uncoordinated, ad-hoc construction?
New units gradually added on top of older ones?

How did it even stand on it's on? :eek2:

It's like a miracle of sorts....


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## Andrew (Sep 11, 2002)

Exactly!! Amazing!


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## TORONTOCOPENHAGEN (Sep 12, 2004)

Looks fantastic. Hong Kong still does have a lot of charming slum areas. Also, Chungking Mansions is supposed to be quite unique.

Peter K


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## CborG (Dec 2, 2003)

Has someboday any pics of the inside?


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## Marathoner (Oct 1, 2005)

Please have a look of the whole story of this interesting Kowloon Walled City in this link:
www.twenty4.co.uk/on-line/issue001/project02/KWC/Main.html

As I have said in another thread. I still remember there was a documentary made by the governement channel in the late 80's teling the lives of the people there. A housewife said she sometimes just borrowed sauce from her neighbours of another building "THROUGH THE WINDOWS' when she was running out of sauce for cooking! And there were shots children playing, jumping from one building to another.

Pity that I was too young (though mid-30's now) to understand the wonder of this structure and have never pay a real visit or "expedition" to it. I just passed by several times in bus in the early 90's.


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## CborG (Dec 2, 2003)

Marathoner said:


> Please have a look of the whole story of this interesting Kowloon Walled City in this link:
> www.twenty4.co.uk/on-line/issue001/project02/KWC/Main.html


Very interesting site!kay:


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## Marathoner (Oct 1, 2005)

Search by Yahoo and you will find some more websites about the Kowloon Walled City.

A team of Japanese architect students came to the Walled City in 1991, using one week to record the final portrait of it.


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## Marathoner (Oct 1, 2005)

Search by Yahoo and you will find some more websites about the Kowloon Walled City.

A team of Japanese architect students came to the Walled City in 1991, using one week to record the final portrait of it.


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

Interesting. Why did the Brits not have this part of Kowloon? And since it wasn't really controlled, was there a lot of illegal immigration from China to the UK-controlled HK? What's there now?


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## Marathoner (Oct 1, 2005)

samsonyuen said:


> Interesting. Why did the Brits not have this part of Kowloon? And since it wasn't really controlled, was there a lot of illegal immigration from China to the UK-controlled HK? What's there now?


I have no idea why British didn't claim this small land when they got Kowloon. Actually, there were always immigrants(not illegal mostly) from the mainland throughout the history of HK. The immigration peaked after communist sweeping China, from 50's to 70's. The population of HK rapidly grew from 2M in early 50's to 4M in 70's. Living in the KWC cost a lot less so many of the residents there were from the mainland working class. The KWC was turned into a park in the late 90's.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

samsonyuen said:


> Interesting. Why did the Brits not have this part of Kowloon? And since it wasn't really controlled, was there a lot of illegal immigration from China to the UK-controlled HK? What's there now?


The mass immigration of mainland Chinese to HK was early 1950s during the communist takeover. 

Anyway, here's a history of The Kowloon Walled City

*The Walled City (known as Kowloon then) was originally a single fort built in the mid-1800s on the site of an earlier 17th century watchpost on the Kowloon Peninsula of Hong Kong. After the ceding of Hong Kong Island to Britain in 1842 (Treaty of Nanjing), Qing (Chinese) authorities felt it necessary for them to establish a military-cum-administrative post to rule the area and to check further British influence in the area.

The 1898 Convention which handed additional parts of Hong Kong (the New Territories) to Britain for 99 years excluded the Walled City, with a population of roughly 700, and stated that China could continue to keep troops there, so long as they did not interfere with Britain's temporary rule. Britain quickly went back on this unofficial part of the agreement, attacking Kowloon Walled City in 1899, only to find it deserted. They did nothing with it nor to the outpost, and thus sent the question of Kowloon Walled City's ownership squarely into the air. The outpost consisted of a yamen, as well as other buildings (which eventually grew into a low-lying, densely packed neighborhood within the walls), in the era between the 1890s and the 1940s. The enclave remained part of Chinese territory despite the tubulent events of the early 20th century that saw the fall of the Qing government, establishment of a Chinese republic and later, the People's Republic of China.

The Walled City remained a curiosity - and a tourist attraction where British colonials and tourists could have a "taste of the old China" - until 1940, when during its WWII occupation of Hong Kong, Japan evicted people from the city, and then demolished much of the city - including the wall - to provide building materials for the nearby Kai Tak Aerodrome.

After Japan's surrender, squatters (whether former residents or - more likely - newcomers) began to occupy the Walled City, resisting several attempts by Britain in 1948 to drive them out. With no wall to protect it (initially), the Walled City became a haven for crooks and drug addicts, as the Hong Kong Police had no right to enter the City (and mainland China - whether warlord, Communist, or Kuomintang - refused to take care of it). The 1949 foundation of the People's Republic of China added thousands of refugees to the population, many from Guangdong, and by this time, Britain had had enough, and simply adopted a 'hands-off' policy. A murder that occurred in Kowloon Walled City in 1959 set off a small diplomatic crisis, as the two nations each tried to get the other to claim responsibility for a vast tract of land now virtually ruled by anti-Manchurian Triads (the Hong Kong organized crime syndicate).

The Triads' rule lasted up until the mid-1970s, when a 1973-1974 series of over 3,000 police raids occurred in Kowloon Walled City. With the Triads' power diminished, a strange sort of synergy blossomed, and the Walled City began to grow almost organically. Square buildings folded up into one another as thousands of modifications were made, virtually none by architects or engineers, until hundreds of square metres were simply a kind of patchwork monolith. Labyrinthine corridors ran through the monolith, some of those being former streets (at the ground level, and often clogged up with trash), and some of those running through upper floors, practically between buildings. The only rules of construction were twofold: electricity had to be provided to avoid fire, and the buildings could be no more than about fourteen storeys high (because of the nearby airport). A mere eight municipal pipes somehow provided water to the entire structure (although more could have come from wells). By the early 1980s, Kowloon Walled City had an estimated population of 35,000 - with a crime rate far below the Hong Kong average, despite the notable lack of any real law enforcement. The Kowloon Walled City was also infamous for its ridiculously high number of unsanitary dentist clinics, since this was where unlicensed dentists could operate without persecution.

Over time, both the British and the Chinese governments found this massive, anarchic city to be a bit too much - despite the low crime. If the 'Black Market' ever had a physical location, this would have been it. Needless to say, the sanitary conditions were a bit wanting.

After the Joint Declaration in 1984, the PRC agreed British authorities to demolish the City and resettle its inhabitants. The mutual decision to tear down the walled city was made in 1987.

At that time, it had 50,000 inhabitants on 0.026 km©˜, and therefore a very high population density of 1,900,000 / km©˜. It was allegedly the most densely populated spot on Earth.
*


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

The evolution of the Kowloon Walled City









1847-The KWC as a fort









1865-Looking south









1924-The old Yamen









1973-The Walled City surrounded by slums


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Marathoner said:


> Really? I don't know about this film. I know a film was made with scenes in the KWC but I don't know it was acted by Jean Claude Van Damme. Then, I must have. Is it still easy to find the DVD for this film in HK?


Bloodsport was actually the movie that introduced Van Damme as a martial arts superstar! I don't know if there's a DVD version of the film but it's very easy to find a VCD version of it


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## Marathoner (Oct 1, 2005)

WANCH said:


> Bloodsport was actually the movie that introduced Van Damme as a martial arts superstar! I don't know if there's a DVD version of the film but it's very easy to find a VCD version of it


But do you have the Chinese Name ah! I think it's easier to find it with Chinese Name.


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## toprak (Jan 25, 2006)

woww thanx


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Marathoner said:


> But do you have the Chinese Name ah! I think it's easier to find it with Chinese Name.


Unfortunately, I don't know the Chinese name! It's actually a Hollywood production!


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

This is what KWC looks like today.


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## redstone (Nov 15, 2003)

All the old buildings were inside and under the slums? :eek2:


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

redstone said:


> All the old buildings were inside and under the slums? :eek2:


These are newly built buildings for the park. The yamen was one of the few structures from the original KWC that was preserved


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## LordMarshall (Jun 26, 2005)

not bad a little bit of green adds to charms of cities


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

LordMarshall said:


> not bad a little bit of green adds to charms of cities


The only thing I can say is, KWC is alot different compared to what it had been back in the days. It used to be hell but it's paradise


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## redstone (Nov 15, 2003)

Are the 'units' built by different owners?

Or were there real buildings inside?


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## Marathoner (Oct 1, 2005)

redstone said:


> Are the 'units' built by different owners?
> 
> Or were there real buildings inside?


I think the units are not built by different owners
But I guess the different blocks of buildings are built by different contractors at different times.


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## redstone (Nov 15, 2003)

Marathoner said:


> I think the units are not built by different owners
> But I guess the different blocks of buildings are built by different contractors at different times.


Oh, most of them are single illegal towers? Then illegal modifications were done to them?

Btw anyone has inside pics or maps/floor plans?


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## redstone (Nov 15, 2003)

Single towers? :runaway:


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## Marathoner (Oct 1, 2005)

redstone said:


> Oh, most of them are single illegal towers? Then illegal modifications were done to them?
> 
> Btw anyone has inside pics or maps/floor plans?


Em.... They were not that illegal since both the British & Chinese government didn't take control of it. And then modifications should be a natural development. 

Please go to the website of KWC I quoted earlier and search there. There are a few shots of the inside alleys and roof of buildings. I don't think there are pic showing the home of residents there. I suggest you search by Yahoo. There are more websites.


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## LordMarshall (Jun 26, 2005)

as to the question of low crime.

wouldnt the fact the the area was under Triad control also add to its safety. the triads would keep their near area safe while criminilize other parts of the city. here the KWC would be safe because the triads wouls see to its low crime rate, while sending members to criminilize HK.


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## redstone (Nov 15, 2003)

http://parole.aporee.org/files/ga12/kowloon_walled_city_6.gif

Life inside


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## Marathoner (Oct 1, 2005)

LordMarshall said:


> as to the question of low crime.
> 
> wouldnt the fact the the area was under Triad control also add to its safety. the triads would keep their near area safe while criminilize other parts of the city. here the KWC would be safe because the triads wouls see to its low crime rate, while sending members to criminilize HK.


Low crime rate was only the case after thousands of raids conducted by the police in the mid-70's. I think the 20 self-formed patrol units also helped some.

It's a fact that the Triads have to maintain some order or control to run their "business". Nowadays, many "business" of the Triads are the entertaining business like karaoke, sauna, night club which seems to be very legal. Of course, they still involves in a lot of illegal "business" like drugs, prostitute, receiving money which we called "protection fee" in Cantonese from shops etc. And there are fights and struggles between different Triad Societies due to conflict of interests sometimes.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

But the problems with the triads are not as serious compared to the 20th century.

In HK, just being a triad member or involved with the society is already a serious criminal offense!


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## LordMarshall (Jun 26, 2005)

so the good old days are gone


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## bustero (Dec 20, 2004)

Wow this is such a treat. A not so lost bit of HK history. In a sense like Kai Tak, something that was kind of insane but in a sense truly remarkable. I read somewhere that in the development of HK. This played an important part where many an enterprising entrepreneur who was just starting (LKS?) used to have factories there where they could produce at truly low cost , since there were no labor standards and the like. So the costs were really low. So things like plastic flowers etc which were a manufacturing backbone of HK before was done here. 

What street is this thing in anyway, I don't recall it anymore, what district?


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

LordMarshall said:


> so the good old days are gone


They are but there are still triads in HK! Last night I was playing at a game centre in Mong Kok and the cops raided the place. They arrested like 4 guys who I think are triad members!

But you won't see any triads chopping off limbs on todays HK street 

Bustero, The KWC is in Kowloon City, the same district as Kai Tak. It's actually a few blocks from Kai Tak! I forgot the street name though.


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## Marathoner (Oct 1, 2005)

Yes! Many of their capital have been changed to "legal" business, mostly in the entertainment


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Marathoner said:


> Yes! Many of their capital have been changed to "legal" business, mostly in the entertainment


True, in fact the entertainment business is the most interesting. It's kinda like what the Mafia did with Hollywood and the music industry.


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## LordMarshall (Jun 26, 2005)

so the gangs went corporate.

better then killing each other on the streets. whats the crime rate in HK? has anything changed since PRC government took over concerning crime?


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

LordMarshall said:


> so the gangs went corporate.
> 
> better then killing each other on the streets. whats the crime rate in HK? has anything changed since PRC government took over concerning crime?


The crime rate in HK is one of the lowest in the world


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## Marathoner (Oct 1, 2005)

WANCH said:


> They are but there are still triads in HK! Last night I was playing at a game centre in Mong Kok and the cops raided the place. They arrested like 4 guys who I think are triad members!
> 
> But you won't see any triads chopping off limbs on todays HK street
> 
> Bustero, The KWC is in Kowloon City, the same district as Kai Tak. It's actually a few blocks from Kai Tak! I forgot the street name though.


The former KWC was at the junction of Tung Tau Tsuen Road & Tung Tsing Road at the outskirt of Kowloon City District.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Marathoner said:


> The former KWC was at the junction of Tung Tau Tsuen Road & Tung Tsing Road at the outskirt of Kowloon City District.


Ok 

Crime statistics in HK

http://info.gov.hk/police


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## LordMarshall (Jun 26, 2005)

cool its good to know that a large city can function without being swamped by criminality.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Most HKers aren't crinimal minded just like most Asian cities. Also, HK has tough laws especially against crime. One of them is the use of firearms. An ordinary HK resident are NOT allowed to own or carry firearms or any sort.


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## LordMarshall (Jun 26, 2005)

thats a great thing citizens dont need guns, thats why we have the police. sounds like a city i could enjoy living in.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

LordMarshall said:


> thats a great thing citizens dont need guns, thats why we have the police. sounds like a city i could enjoy living in.


HK is one of the few world cities where you feel safe


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## Marathoner (Oct 1, 2005)

LordMarshall said:


> thats a great thing citizens dont need guns, thats why we have the police. sounds like a city i could enjoy living in.


Seems you keep a gun at home.


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## LordMarshall (Jun 26, 2005)

^^ well living here you need one.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Another view of KWC and surrounding areas










rooftop


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## spotila (Oct 29, 2004)

I watched Bloodsport just now. Has a few nice shots of the KWC, very eeire and interesting.


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## redstone (Nov 15, 2003)

Can someone post screen shots from the movie from the inside of the City?


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## dogyears (Aug 11, 2005)

From the Wikipedia Article I read

"Also, as the Walled City was beginning to be torn down, a group of Japanese explorers took about a week to tour the empty walled city, making a sort of map and a cross section of the city."

I can't finda any information on the net about this ! If anyone knows anything about these Japanese explorers, the pictures they took, and the map they created, please reply !


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

One more question about KWC: Was it surrounded by British jurisdiction? If not, wouldn't it have been easy for Guangzhou people to sneak into the democratic world? And did the residents of KWC have services like transportation and schools outside of its boundaries like the rest of Kowloon?


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## Marathoner (Oct 1, 2005)

samsonyuen said:


> One more question about KWC: Was it surrounded by British jurisdiction? If not, wouldn't it have been easy for Guangzhou people to sneak into the democratic world? And did the residents of KWC have services like transportation and schools outside of its boundaries like the rest of Kowloon?


I think most of the residents of the KWC were also the residents of HK who should have a HK Identity Card. If my memory is not wrong, there are some bus routes passing the KWC and have stops outside it's boundaries. And all the children there should go outside the KWC for school. I think I should know somebody from the KWC during my university studies in the early 90's.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

dogyears said:


> From the Wikipedia Article I read
> 
> "Also, as the Walled City was beginning to be torn down, a group of Japanese explorers took about a week to tour the empty walled city, making a sort of map and a cross section of the city."
> 
> I can't finda any information on the net about this ! If anyone knows anything about these Japanese explorers, the pictures they took, and the map they created, please reply !


I actually visited the site years back when it was still running. It's wack that the site was down but it was actually a very informative webstie despite being in Japanese. They did took alot of photos and to tell you, the conditions inside the KWC was hell!

Marathoner, I think that most of it's residents in the KWC have a HK id. Cause it's hard to be in HK if you don't have one and the residents of course have to go out. You got cops stopping you and checking your id. Happened to me many times even when I was in a game centre. Anyway, those without HK IDs most likely go around in Kowloon city and not go anywhere further from the KWC.

There were buses that run outside the KWC but I don't know the no.s.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

p-snack said:


> "A MUST HAVE " for anyone interested in Kowloon or too just have the coolest book on the planet:
> 
> "City of Darkness: Life in Kowloon Walled City"
> by Greg Girard, Ian Lambot
> ...


It's a must have but it's not the coolest


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## p-snack (Nov 30, 2004)

WANCH said:


> It's a must have but it's not the coolest


What is the coolest?


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## OtAkAw (Aug 5, 2004)

HK has a walled city too??Wow, who made it? The ones in Manila are ALOT better IMO, and theyre very European.


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

OtAkAw said:


> HK has a walled city too??Wow, who made it? The ones in Manila are ALOT better IMO, and theyre very European.


Hong Kong had walled cities / fortress before the British had lease on it's terrotories.


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## Indica (Mar 19, 2005)

I was going to ask the same thing about the lifts... there has to be at least a few in the middle of that place, somewhere!! maybe in the 14 story sections..


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Indica said:


> I was going to ask the same thing about the lifts... there has to be at least a few in the middle of that place, somewhere!! maybe in the 14 story sections..


From what I know, there are no lifts in the KWC, only stairs.


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## bleedingOrange (Feb 23, 2006)

p-snack said:


> "A MUST HAVE " for anyone interested in Kowloon or too just have the coolest book on the planet:
> 
> "City of Darkness: Life in Kowloon Walled City"
> by Greg Girard, Ian Lambot
> ...


£210 on amazon.co.uk, it would have to be the greatest book ever

On a side note, KWC also appeared in the Street Fighter anime series


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

I've seen checking out the Street Fighter series and didn't pay attention to the KWC. Might as check it out again.


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## Vortox (Aug 23, 2005)

Wow amazing. what im wondering is how it survied that long, if a fire broke out, wouldnt it be uncontrollable?


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Vortox said:


> Wow amazing. what im wondering is how it survied that long, if a fire broke out, wouldnt it be uncontrollable?


Definitely it would! But there haven't been any reports of a major fire in that area and if there were, I wouldn't know!


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

An aerial view of KWC


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## redstone (Nov 15, 2003)

Each 'stack' an individual building or just a pile of slum construction? :eek2:


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## zergling (Jul 5, 2004)

Some sources say this is the densest spot to have been inhabited by men in world's history.


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## Castle_Bravo (Jan 6, 2006)

:OMG: It looks realy poor  What kind of buildings are there now (pictures please  )


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

Castle_Bravo said:


> :OMG: It looks realy poor  What kind of buildings are there now (pictures please  )


This is the KWC today, it's now a park. The area is also surrounding by public housing estates. Also, the *yamen* is one of the few preserved from the original structures.


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## hossoso (Oct 9, 2005)

For anyone interested, I am getting an Urban Studies major at university and was recently researching KWC in the academic journals available online and found a great study on it in the Journal of Urban History. I'll have to read the fine print to see if I can post it here in excerpt or in its entireity. For those of you enrolled in university or with subscriptions, I found it through ProQuest or Expanded Academic.


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## Dallas star (Jul 6, 2006)

I woul love to see some pics!


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## Skybean (Jun 16, 2004)

HK thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=190289



Skybean said:


> It looks like a scrap heap. I stole this picture from SSP, where a certain forumer seems to be obsessed with it.
> 
> I think you could have leaped from rooftop to rooftop. Dense, yes, but not very tall at all. Probably its extreme density was due to overcrowding.


Other HK buildings:


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## LordCarnal (Sep 27, 2005)

Are there any pictures of the KWC now?


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## silly thing (Aug 9, 2004)

it should be ruined!!!


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