# Crime in London - is it really that bad?



## wjfox (Nov 1, 2002)

Salomon Smith Barney said:


> Hi all - I am going to London in a month's time to work/travel for a year or two and was doing the usual research on the internet on where to live in London before I go and was quite shocked to learn that London was such a violent, crime ridden city with such a serious youth, gang, drug and gun crime problem.
> 
> Apparently its so bad in London that it has been labelled "Crime Capital of the World" due to the high level of gun crimes, stabbings, ASB (anti social behaviour) particularly on the East side.
> 
> ...


Don't believe everything you read in the media.


----------



## kebabmonster (Jun 29, 2004)

Most gun crime is generally what is known in the trade as "shit on shit" and most murders involve people who you know (family, partners, business associates), so as long as you are a visitor, all you should worry about is getting dipped on the tube or rolled on the streets, which could happen in any major city or tourist destination.


----------



## Evil Bert (Feb 20, 2003)

elephant and castle is known as a bad area in london but living there has not been a problem. It does on the outside look dirty and edgey but never had a problem. in fact 99% of my friends would feel safe walking home alone, pissed up whatever its been alright. I feel far less safe in smaller UK towns especially Reading. I have seen so much violence there and even had some one as a joke pull a gun on me at the train station (he was seen on cctv and got nicked right in front of us, was amazing) last night in reading again on a night out near the train station some merry guys decided to start a bit of banter with us,.. before we know it, things were said and it all turned for the worst. We managed to walk away to find a taxi, but before getting in the police rock up to question both groups about the confrontation and see if we were alright. just goes to prove big brother is watching u. CCTV has def been an added bonus for tackling crime and anti social behaviour for the UK. Drunk people are probably the worst part of british culture and its anti social behaviour, just be sensible and dont go to a weatherspoons pub!!lol.


----------



## Treasure (Mar 24, 2006)

yes its that bad for a european city.


----------



## Republica (Jun 30, 2005)

Thanks for that contribution 'Treasure'.

My one piece of advice would be dont read newspapers. Stick to reliable sources when you want to know the truth.


----------



## Madman (Dec 29, 2003)

Evil Bert said:


> just goes to prove big brother is watching u. CCTV has def been an added bonus for tackling crime and anti social behaviour for the UK.



I read recently that we British are the most watched nation in the world, and Londoners the most likely to be watched by CCTV in the world (this is also true apparently for speed cameras as well). Great eh?...


----------



## rocky (Apr 20, 2005)

no its not bad


----------



## Tubeman (Sep 12, 2002)

Treasure said:


> yes its that bad for a european city.


As we say in London, bollocks

Some bits of London are a bit rough n' ready, but quite why any self-respecting tourist would ever want to go to Dagenham or Peckham I don't know. Even in the 'violent' or 'crime ridden' areas its mostly youths assaulting / mugging their peers: if you have nothing to do with them, you're not at risk.

Anywhere even remotely near the tourist trail is safe as houses... at worst you might get your rucksack dipped. In fact, that's my only bit of advice of any value: don't have anything valuable in a rucksack pocket which could be easily unzipped as you walk along.

The Tube, buses, bars, streets (etc) are all extremely safe and crime-free and anyone who says otherwise obviously has some sort of puerile axe to grind.


----------



## Mikejesmike (Jan 20, 2007)

Just visit and use common sense. Would also like to say the murder rate isn't the best way to say which city is safer than another.

London
Murders----171
Rape------2094
Robbery-43,971
Burglary-95,644


New York City
Murders----596
Rape-----1,502
Robbery-23,568
Burglary-22,997

Just by going by these figures London has 20,570 more violent crimes than NYC and this isn't counting assault, which in NYC there were 17,136 reports, also remember NYC has more people than London. So the murder rate really only tells you a small fraction of how you can expect your daily life to be in a city.


----------



## Justme (Sep 11, 2002)

Mikejesmike said:


> Just visit and use common sense. Would also like to say the murder rate isn't the best way to say which city is safer than another.
> 
> London
> Murders----171
> ...



But if you are going to quote statistics, you should also understand that methods differ between country's.
Please also show a source where you got this information.


----------



## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

Madman said:


> I read recently that we British are the most watched nation in the world, and Londoners the most likely to be watched by CCTV in the world (this is also true apparently for speed cameras as well). Great eh?...


ROFL...according to Wikipedia, there are 500,000 CCTV cameras in London *alone*...compared to about 3,000 in New York City. I'm surprised that there is still crime in the light of the heavy surveillance. 

Britain puts a whole new spin on "Big Brother".


----------



## svs (Dec 5, 2005)

Tubeman said:


> As we say in London, bollocks
> 
> Some bits of London are a bit rough n' ready, but quite why any self-respecting tourist would ever want to go to Dagenham or Peckham I don't know. Even in the 'violent' or 'crime ridden' areas its mostly youths assaulting / mugging their peers: if you have nothing to do with them, you're not at risk.
> 
> ...


NO ax, but I have had my pocket picked on the tube. (Central Line I think.) I have to admire the professionalism of the gang that did it. Three or four pushed themselves up next to me, basically holding me imobile while an accomplice made the snatch. He was out the door and gone before I could get myself free to move.


----------



## Mikejesmike (Jan 20, 2007)

Justme said:


> But if you are going to quote statistics, you should also understand that methods differ between country's.
> Please also show a source where you got this information.


New York City info is from the NYPD site and London info is from the London Metropolitan Police site.

I actually went easy on London. In NYC all degrees of rape or sexual assault is included-1,502 cases. In London there are 9,001 rapes and other sexual assaults.


----------



## pricemazda (Feb 14, 2004)

Again, you are not comparing like with like, its all about the level of reporting crimes as well.


----------



## Mikejesmike (Jan 20, 2007)

You can't have it both ways. You can't say one city is safer because it has a lower rate of crime and another looks statistically safer only because people in one city are less likely to report a crime. Look at the murder rate-Everyone likes to claim people in the US are stupid, how do you know the criminals in London don't do a better job of disposing of the bodies and covering their tracks? London could have over 600 murders a year. Yet you're not going to know about it. You rely on what you're given.


----------



## Jaeger (May 11, 2006)

Crime figures often just reflect police activity.

For Example if the police launch a robbery initiative then street crime arrests
and the reporting of street crime will increase.

If the police launch a crack down on Domestic Violence, then figures for violent assault charges will also increase (One in four assaults in the UK are domestics).

Likewise if the police launch an initiative to encourage rape victims to come forward, then rape figures will increase dramaticaly.

There are also discrepencies in figures, the UK police now record crime that would have just been recorded as one crime in the past as multiple crimes. While half of all violent crime in the UK results in no injury to anyone at all.

Violent crime in the UK covers a much broader area than in the US, for example verbal assault, harrasement, common assault are all crimes that result in no injury. Of the other 50% of Violent Crime, the vast majority are simple assaults resulting in cuts and bruises.

The UK Police are now the subject of a target culture and have to meet targets for recorded crime. The system has been broadly criticised as performance targets have increased numbers of trivial offences and taken discretion away from officers, who now feel that they must make an arrest in order to meet targets and to justify budgets, which will be cut if they don't meet targets.

There have been cases of children arrested for using chalk on the pavement or people being arrested for offences they would not have been arrested for in the past, when police officers had more discretion and could make decisions themselves.


----------



## alvi (Apr 13, 2007)

Yeah; statistics are very suspect and crime statistics in particular. 

The ways crimes are *reported and recorded* are grossly modified by local social, cultural, institutional and political influences. So is the way those figures are treated for statistical purposes.

Then you have to allow for the fact that most crimes never get into the statistics anyway. The British Crime Survey, which has a long and respected pedigree, suggests that of every 100 offences. only about 40 are reported, 30 recorded by the police, and 7 cleared up. In the case of violent crime, only about 50% is reported. Reporting rates for rape are very much in doubt; because of the stigma attaching to the victim in particular class or ethnic groups, it may be as low as 1 or 2%, and probably not more than 5 or 6% overall.

Tubeman is right, most offences are peer-on-peer and very localised. It's like the fear of being blown up by terrorist bombs; the possibility exists, but the chance you will be knocked over by a car is orders of magnitude greater; especially if you come from a country where they drive on the wrong (i.e. right) side of the road. (That's an English joke. )

Take the same care you would at home but otherwise don't worry about it.


----------



## Jaeger (May 11, 2006)

More reliable figures regarding violent crime are hospital casualty
figures.

There has been a 25% reduction in hospital admissions due to violent crime since 2000 in England and Wales according to Professor Shepherd and his violence research group at Cardiff University Medical School - (see my earlier posts)

As for serious assaults, they are often reported, as the person 
assaulted can claim criminal injuries compensation running in to
thousands of pounds.

Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority - 

https://www.cica.gov.uk/portal/page?_pageid=115,64686&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL

Likewise anyone who is insured would be stupid not to report a robbery, car theft or house break in, when they could claim the money back on insurance.


----------



## rocky (Apr 20, 2005)

murder figures are pretty accurate and in my opinion reflect other violent crime generaly.

other figures are not reliable and murders are generaly reported


----------



## Tombs (Sep 9, 2007)

If you really feel insecure and unsafe walking around London, I think it's much more a problem with yourself simply being too frail, rather than a problem with London.


----------



## Jaeger (May 11, 2006)

kebabmonster said:


> I can well believe that.


It's a fact, it's verbal threats, common assault, harrasement, intent,
,and a whole host of other crimes, which involve no injury to anyone.

We record the trivial - if we recorded just felonies like the Americans do, we would hardly have any crime to record.


----------



## Cloudship (Jun 8, 2005)

I understand teh differences in murder rates. But that is only one type of crime. What I think fuels people's fears more than being murdered are pickpocketing, muggings, rapes, hotel room thefts, and con jobs. This is what seems to be emphasized more. Even talking to people form England about an upcoming trip, they say physical safety is not anything to worry about there, the big worry is pick-pockets, and not to keep anything valuable in your normal pockets. Is the petty crime much worse as a balance to the more physical crimes?


----------



## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

Never saw any pickpockets in London. In Rome however the city was full with them. That still doesnt mean that Rome is some sort of dangerous city.


----------



## Jaeger (May 11, 2006)

GNU said:


> Never saw any pickpockets in London. In Rome however the city was full with them. That still doesnt mean that Rome is some sort of dangerous city.


Rome has these gangs, that congregate around you, it can be quite scary.

I had my wallet stolen in Rome, and Naples is said to be even worse.


----------



## Jaeger (May 11, 2006)

Cloudship said:


> I understand teh differences in murder rates. But that is only one type of crime. What I think fuels people's fears more than being murdered are pickpocketing, muggings, rapes, hotel room thefts, and con jobs. This is what seems to be emphasized more. Even talking to people form England about an upcoming trip, they say physical safety is not anything to worry about there, the big worry is pick-pockets, and not to keep anything valuable in your normal pockets. Is the petty crime much worse as a balance to the more physical crimes?


Petty crime is bad in most tourist locations throughout the world, tourists sadly are like a magnet for theives looking to dip in to bags and clothing.

Watch out at Cash Machines, they also work scams there, including Lebanese Loops and distration crimes. East Europeans and Gangs from around the world work Londons tourist areas, as they do across other tourist locations across Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_loop

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3157214.stm

The London police are quite wise to all this and there are a lot of CCTV Cameras looking out for dippers, but still be on your guard and keep your valuables safe.


----------



## GNU (Nov 26, 2004)

Jaeger said:


> Rome has these gangs, that congregate around you, it can be quite scary.


yes Ive seen them..
Once I was in the bus and a gang of 4 tried to steal my wallet with the help of a local.
In the end they had to say "scusa"


----------

