# Alpine Pass Roads



## Thorin (May 8, 2006)

Some from Italy
*
Passo dello Stelvio*


















*Passo Gavia









Passo Rombo









Colle dell'Agnello









Passo Pordoi










*


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## Aokromes (Jan 5, 2005)

Anyone have photos of a military road on Georgia (country) it was really crazy seen from the far.


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## Treasure (Mar 24, 2006)

Albania


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## Æsahættr (Jul 9, 2004)

A mountain pass of a different kind - through the jungle

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=...120.514526&spn=0.060531,0.10849&t=k&z=14&om=1


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## sonysnob (Dec 12, 2004)

California:


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

High mountain passes i've driven over

Plockenpass - Austria/Italy

Ljubelj pass - Austria/Slovenia

Vrsic Pass - Slovenia

and the highest and scariest The Sonora Pass - California, USA

I didn't know the Sierra Nevada was so high or steep, it was late October, the road was nearly impassable at the top and I almost ran out of fuel, had to freewheel all the way down the other side in neutral :laugh:


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## Nexis (Aug 7, 2007)

those are some crazy Alpine roads.


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## High Mileager (Apr 16, 2008)

Guys, this thread has been asleep for more than a year...
Time to waky,waky!..
This is Transfagarasan over Carpathians, in Romania..(I'm sure some of you have seen this before on other threads..but actually belongs here)





























Capra(Goat) Chalet


















more here..
http://www.romanianmonasteries.org/romania/fagaras-mountains
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfăgărăşan


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## Perennial Quest (May 24, 2007)

Italy: Passo San Boldo
This one was built by Austrians in the WWI, every hairpin turn is in a tunnel. The tunnels are very tight so there are traffic lights at each end. Fascinating.




























Pics by Vulcan


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## Timon91 (Feb 9, 2008)

Impressive, it's almost impossible to make a road over there.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Wow, that one with tunnels is amazing.


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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

The terrain around those roads looks fantastic! :cheers:


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## RS.ban (Sep 12, 2008)

wow! the last one is amazing


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## Perennial Quest (May 24, 2007)

Some more pics.
This time it's the Berinina Pass in Switzerland (2330m):


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Marvellous  I have been to the Berninapass too, it's one of the most beautiful mountain passes in Switzerland. But only from St. Moritz to the pass height and then back, because we didn't have time to drive all the way to Italy.


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## Perennial Quest (May 24, 2007)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Marvellous  I have been to the Berninapass too, it's one of the most beautiful mountain passes in Switzerland. But only from St. Moritz to the pass height and then back, because we didn't have time to drive all the way to Italy.


It's very very beautiful indeed. We drove back to Italy through the Maloja Pass.
Ill'post pics of that part of the trip soon.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Heh, the Malojapass. I was on vacation in Vicosoprano, we had to tow our caravan all the way through the Julier and Malojapasses with our Peugeot 406 1.8 liter engine. It never ran smooth anymore after that trip. :lol:


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## Perennial Quest (May 24, 2007)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Heh, the Malojapass. I was on vacation in Vicosoprano, we had to tow our caravan all the way through the Julier and Malojapasses with our Peugeot 406 1.8 liter engine. It never ran smooth anymore after that trip. :lol:


Hmmm, it was quite a trial for the poor 406!


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## keber (Nov 8, 2006)

*"Russian road" to Vršič pass (Slovenia), 1611 m, in heavy winter condition.*
Built during first world war by Russian captives.

It begins in Kranjska Gora, where currently there is about 1 m of snow.









Road closed because of snow avalanches:









First hairpin (out of exactly 50 for up and down - 24 on this side):









Soon after that, road is cleaned only basic, now having mostly ice (good winter tires help to gain some additional kilometers).









On about 1050 m above sea level we park (it is possible to go a bit further with car).









Additional 6 km of walking until top of the pass.









A bus station. Not in operation at the moment, of course.:lol:
Also, from here on (at about 1250 m above sea level) road is not cleaned in any way.









Hairpins (notice snow blanket - you walk on top of it, no trenches)









Getting closer. Also notice snow poles, which mark the edge of the road. They are 4 meters long (13 feet).









Snow poles slowly disappearing into snow.









Before top of the pass (snow poles are completely under the snow). When without snow, beside the road there is also pretty deep trench on the left side.









Top of the Vršič pass. Wind has swept some snow away, but there is still at least 2 m of snow and up to 10 meters in some parts, in average however 4-5 meters.









Looking down onto the pass Vršič and nearby mountains.









Continuation of the road towards south.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

^^ So where's the road? :lol: Just to add, detour is over Italy every winter, and has always been, even before we were in Schengen and EU.


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## zagłębiak1 (Feb 9, 2009)

Beatiful winter


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## Radish2 (Dec 7, 2008)

Great landscape on the last page.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

I hope to make a lot of beautiful pics too in 3 months when I visit Switzerland. I hope that passes over 2000 m will be opened in early June. There still might be snow then. 

I've traversed the following passes:

Bernina Pass 2328m
Brünig Pass 1007m
Furka Pass 2431m
Grimsel Pass 2165m
Julier Pass 2284m
Maloja Pass 1815m
Susten Pass 2224m

I hope to clinch the Gotthard and Nufenen in June, maybe some others too, depends on the weather.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

^^


ChrisZwolle said:


> when I visit*ed* Switzerland.





ChrisZwolle said:


> I*'ve* traverse*d* the following passes:


Are you talking about the past or the future?


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

First thing was about the future, the second in the past  It's edited now.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

So you've already been to all those passes? Me too, hehe.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Yep, they're mostly in central Switzerland, some of them in Graubünden.


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## Timon91 (Feb 9, 2008)

AFAIK I've only passed the Grimsel Pass, but I only went to Switzerland once, in 2004 :lol:


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## keber (Nov 8, 2006)

Nassfeld / Pramollo pass (Austria/Italy) today:


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## Timon91 (Feb 9, 2008)

That's quite a lot of snow, I you'd ask me :lol:


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## Ni3lS (Jun 29, 2007)

Ya. Awesome snow walls and pics :yes: Im going trough the gotthard tunnel this year again


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## panda80 (Sep 2, 2008)

in 3 weeks time i want to go through the following passes:fluela, ofen, costalunga, sella, gardena, valparola, falzarego, tre croci, mauria, nevea, predil, vrsic, wurzen.is there a chance that some of these passes will still be closed on 28st april-1st of may? do i have any chance to find umbrail and stelvio open?


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## keber (Nov 8, 2006)

Actually I'm almost sure, that Vršič will be closed at that period, especially if there will still be some snowfall. And some other passes probably will be closed too, there is still too much snow in the Alps.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Passo di Monte Giovo / Jaufenpass (2090 m) between Italian towns of Merano/Meran and Vipiteno/Sterzing:










This was taken at the beginning of June, with blizzard and -3°C


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## diablo234 (Aug 18, 2008)

Some mountain passes in Colorado.

















US 6 - Loveland Pass Summit (often used as a backup route for I-70, if I-70 shuts down to severe snowfall)

































US 40 - Rabbit Ears Pass

























US 40 - Berthound Pass

























US 50 Monarch Pass (frequently closed in winter due to heavy snowfall)









US 285/CO 9 in Fairplay, CO (this is the real life version of South Park)

























More of Fairplay, Colorado

















CO 9 - Hoosier Pass


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

diablo234 said:


> US 50 Monarch Pass (frequently closed in winter due to heavy snowfall)


Ski slopes look pathetic in summer...


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## diablo234 (Aug 18, 2008)

CO 85 in Aspen, Colorado

















CO 85 - Independence Pass (this road is closed during the winter)


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## diablo234 (Aug 18, 2008)

CO 119 Heading into Boulder Canyon with a 10% Grade. Hope your brakes work.

















CO 91 Freemont Pass


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Very nice pics diablo234, I hope to visit these places sooner or later


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Interesting videos by ChristianSwiss.

The first video follows the Furka Pass in Switzerland from Gletsch to the summit, the second one follows the road down to Realp.

Notice the contrast on both sides. The western approach is quite well constructed with a wide roadway and only a few hairpins. The eastern side is narrow, sometimes even too narrow to pass simultaneously, and lacks proper safety installations.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

^^ Nice pics. Does AADT count goats?


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Sure,everybody is equal :cheers:

Passo Cason di Lanza , August 2003 





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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Stallersattel/Passo Stalle Austria-Italia



































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## Palance (Mar 23, 2005)

Zagor666 said:


>


I have no clue what this sign could mean: Does it take 15 minutes to reach the pass? Is there some kind of "Blockabfertigung" with a depart every 15 minutes to the pass? Is it only allowed to drive between x.00 and x.15 ?


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## snowman159 (May 16, 2008)

Palance said:


> I have no clue what this sign could mean: Does it take 15 minutes to reach the pass? Is there some kind of "Blockabfertigung" with a depart every 15 minutes to the pass? *Is it only allowed to drive between x.00 and x.15 ?*


That's what it means. It's because the road is so narrow on the Italian side. In the opposite direction you can enter between 30-45min past the hour. It gives you a 15min buffer to make it to the other side. 
But don't worry, it's not the only sign and there's a red traffic light, so when you're there you'll figure it out.


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

It means that when you arrive on the 16th minute of a hour you have a 3/4 hrs break to watch the beautiful nature :cheers:


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## Schwarzpunkt (Apr 12, 2011)

*Passo Rombo / Timmelsjoch Italian side - Summer 2003 (of course with the bicycle)*

map:









1. The road









2.









3.









4.









5.









6. in the last part there are some tunnels but the climb is practically over 









7. Austrian side 









8. Austrian side


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Sustenpass :cheers: 2009
























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## tom666 (Jan 29, 2010)

nice pics, Zagor666


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Bicaz/Romania :cheers:



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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Monte Zoncolan/Friuli-Italia 













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## Bad_Hafen (May 19, 2010)

great report from Alpine roads 
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/mo...port-e34-m5-meeting-alps-1-4-sept-2006-a.html


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## snowman159 (May 16, 2008)

Zagor666 said:


> Monte Zoncolan/Friuli-Italia


Never heard of that one before, but looks interesting. Reminds me a little of Passo Gavia (also very narrow lanes).


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Zoncolan is very famous among bicycle riders because, as Gilberto Simoni stated, "the easiest part of the Zoncolan is as hard as the hardest parts in the whole Tour de France"


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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

Wonderful and very nice landscape photos from all those roads in Alpes


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## Schwarzpunkt (Apr 12, 2011)

*Passo Pordoi (2239 m)*

from cable car "Sass Pordoi" - February 2011


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## Bad_Hafen (May 19, 2010)

Montenegro, mountain Durmitor


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## Bad_Hafen (May 19, 2010)




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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

For some reason I really like the photo with the Vauxhall Omega right infront. I like all the pciture sin the thread though, wonderful landscapes!


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## TheFlyPL (Jun 21, 2007)

DanielFigFoz said:


> For some reason I really like the photo with the Vauxhall Omega right infront. I like all the pciture sin the thread though, wonderful landscapes!


I think it's Opel.


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## tom666 (Jan 29, 2010)

offtopic: opel = vauxhall = GM


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## Corvinus (Dec 8, 2010)

Klausenpass (Switzerland, trunk road no. 17, main connector road between the cantons of Uri and Glarus), peak at 1951m.
Direction Uri -> Glarus
June 2011

1. Different road users









2. Lush green meadows









3. Valley from above and fog









4. More fog









5. Gefährliche Strecke, meaning "dangerous section"









6. Down in the valley again, still canton of Uri, near village of Urner Boden









7. This is already in southern Glarus


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

That road is narrower than I thought... Almost looks like the eastern approach of the Furka Pass at times.


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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

In winter time actually when snows, those roads are remain closed right because of the snow?


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## Coccodrillo (Sep 30, 2005)

Yes, usually from October to May or June.

Sometimes also in July, for the same reason, but it's quite rare.


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## Bad_Hafen (May 19, 2010)

http://i.imgur.com/Vsyba.jpg
und wo ist Heidi? :lol:


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## Attus (Jul 9, 2010)

tom666 said:


> offtopic: opel = vauxhall = GM


Precisely: Vauxhall is an Opel made in the UK with driver's seat in the right side.


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## Schwarzpunkt (Apr 12, 2011)

*Passo Pordoi*

Some photos of my trip of last Sunday

1. Passo Pordoi from Val di Fassa









2. 









3. Bilingual sign in Val di Fassa (Italian and Ladin)









4.









5. intersection Passo Pordoi X Passo Sella









6.









7.









8.









9.









10.









11.


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## Schwarzpunkt (Apr 12, 2011)

Some panoramic pics (Pics taken here) 

1.Road Passo Pordoi (side of Arabba)









2.Passo Pordoi. In the background the Sassolungo









3. Passo Fedaia


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

^^ Amazing pics. Thanks.


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## koolduct (Mar 28, 2006)

Not exactly Apline, not even European, but let me show you some north Argentina:

Abra del Acay. Nearly 5000m AOD. I felt dizzy and gave in on final 2kms. My mate took the steering wheel and took the car to the destination. I read somewhere that this is the highest pass in the world on which a national road runs.



























A pass between Salinas Grandes and Purmamarca (Cuesta de Lipan), 4100m AOD.
East side:









West side:









A pass on the way to Iruya:


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## -Pino- (Aug 12, 2007)

Peru has a couple of road passes that are just under or above 5000 meters. Not sure whether they are national routes, but at least they appear to be of better quality than the Argentine tracks.

I drove in a bus that went to 4990 meters in Peru. The drive there was easy to make (at least as a passenger, and with the day starting at 2500 meters). The short stop at the pass itself was a bit of a different story. Just a few steps outside of the bus and you would get short of breath. So walk very slowly with very short paces there ...


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Beautiful!


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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

The scenery in those alpine roads (in Italy?) its great; in some of these roads every summer and especially in cyclism season those roads are full of cyclists, fans etc


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Col de l´Iseran / July 2011







Val d´Isere










Bonneval sur Arc,manny say the most beautiful Village in the French Alps


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## seem (Jun 15, 2008)

Wow, truly amazing.


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## alserrod (Dec 27, 2007)

Schwarzpunkt said:


> from cable car "Sass Pordoi" - February 2011




I was here in summer 1993 and had lunch at Pordoi. I remember it with a lot of people doing tourism. Some of them only by road, other ones for trekking.

I remember there was a cable to arrive up to 2950m more or less, even in summer... but should you hadn't a good mountain equipment, you weren't allowed to avoid accidents there...


If I go to my parents house and take photobooks... (and the scanner) I think I could post some of them


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Col du Galibier / July 2011


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

Zagor666 said:


>


Gotta love that little flag of Yugoslavia on your jacket.


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

Verso said:


> Gotta love that little flag of Yugoslavia on your jacket.


When you enter the restaurant at the Gonars Nord rest area on A4 near the junction with A23 on the left there is a sign warning people not to buy stuff from illegal seller. It's written in many languages and next to each language there is the flag. There is also the old Yugoslavian flag with red star.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

If Italians hadn't built that road, it probably wouldn't exist. Same as there's no direct road here.


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## piotr71 (Sep 8, 2009)

*Flüela Pass (el. 2383 m.)*


IMGP0312 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP0317 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP0318 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP0319 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP0321 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP0326 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP0328 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP0330 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP0332 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP0336 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP0338 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP0343 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP0344 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP0345 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP0347 by 71piotr, on Flickr


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## piotr71 (Sep 8, 2009)

*Ofenpass/Pass dal Fuorn.*


IMGP0397 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP0399 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP0401 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP0403 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP0410 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP0411 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP0423 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP0426 by 71piotr, on Flickr


IMGP0430 by 71piotr, on Flickr


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Ofenpass ist dangerous,wild Bears are running around there :cheers:


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Vrsic 







Kal-Koritnica - Cezsoca - Zaga 





The so called Slowenische Grenzkammstrasse(i dont know if Slovenians have a name for this road).It goes parallel to the Soca valley road from Most na Soci over Kambresko,Lig and Vrhovlje to Neblo


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

^^ You used some local roads (except Vršič). How old are those pics?


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Verso said:


> ^^ You used some local roads (except Vršič). How old are those pics?


Vrsic 2003 - the other ones 2006 :cheers:
i could kick my stupid ass that i buyed my digital camera so late(2009) - i have so many pictures of alpine roads but the quality is not do good hno:


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Julierpass 











The Tremola road


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

Jugović


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## hofburg (Jun 27, 2009)

apparently some serbian footballer  nice photos.

also, roads from switzerland look so neat.


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Passo Pordoi :cheers:


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Nice. Italian passes are underrated in my opinion. Most Dutch only know the Swiss passes.


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nice. Italian passes are underrated in my opinion. Most Dutch only know the Swiss passes.


Realy? :? i see so many dutch caravans and campers driving thru the Dolomiti region :cheers:anyway Italy has the most pass roads in the Alps


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Nice. Italian passes are underrated in my opinion. Most Dutch only know the Swiss passes.


In summer, everywhere in Trentino and on lake Garda (passes included) Dutch is the second most common license plate, after the Germans and _before_ the Italians.


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

g.spinoza said:


> In summer, everywhere in Trentino and on lake Garda (passes included) Dutch is the second most common license plate, after the Germans and _before_ the Italians.


:lol: imo that is realy so - you hear more german and dutch speaking then italian in the garda region especialy in the northern region - torbole,malcesine,limone 
the Passo Pordoi is great for driving,especialy the eastern side - 36 curves and every of them a real pleasure :cheers:


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## -Pino- (Aug 12, 2007)

There may be a lot of Dutchmen visiting the area, but they won't come over to drive passes for fun. Switzerland is much more the destination of choice when it comes to driving mountain routes for the fun of it.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

^^ Maybe. I find Dutchmen quite scared about mountain roads - and they drive accordingly


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## Coccodrillo (Sep 30, 2005)

(double post, cancel this please)


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## Coccodrillo (Sep 30, 2005)

Zagor666 said:


> anyway Italy has the most pass roads in the Alps


Also because a great part of the Alps are in Italy, but not only because of that. In Italy there are roads linking most valleys (especially in the Dolomites), often open year-round, while in Switzerland a lot of valleys have dead-end roads, and most pass roads are closed in winter. Even main roads are rare, Wallis-Valais canton for instance has no road to Bern canton, except the Lötschberg train shuttle and the Grimsel pass, closed most of the time.


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Coccodrillo said:


> Also because a great part of the Alps are in Italy, but not only because of that. In Italy there are roads linking most valleys (especially in the Dolomites), often open year-round, while in Switzerland a lot of valleys have dead-end roads, and most pass roads are closed in winter. Even main roads are rare, Wallis-Valais canton for instance has no road to Bern canton, except the Lötschberg train shuttle and the Grimsel pass, closed most of the time.


You can drive over the Aletschgletscher from Wallis to Bern  

Italy is more for relaxing and just having fun while Swiss pass roads are more huge and scary :cheers:


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

Zagor666 said:


> Italy is more for relaxing and just having fun while Swiss pass roads are more huge and scary :cheers:


It depends.

Passo Spluga and Passo Gavia are more "scary" than any Swiss Road IMO.

What the Swiss passes have is close proximity of glaciers, something you don't find in Italy except in 2 cases.

Also, you can drive around 4 passes in a day in short distance (San Gottardo, Furka, Grimsel, Susten) in Switzerland.

Actually, I think Passo Gavia is probably the most challenging pass to drive (> 2000m) in Italy. IT's narrow, it can't fit 2 cars throughout many sectors, and it has uneven pavement. 

The only pass I didn't see swarmed by bikers indeed.


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## Frank IBC (Jan 14, 2008)

piotr71 said:


> IMGP0321 by 71piotr, on Flickr
> 
> 
> IMGP0326 by 71piotr, on Flickr
> ...


Beautiful photos, 71Piotr. Switzerland at 2,300 m above sea level looks exactly like Bolivia at 4,300 m above sea level. :cheers1:


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Suburbanist said:


> Also, you can drive around 4 passes in a day in short distance (San Gottardo, Furka, Grimsel, Susten) in Switzerland.


In Italy there's plenty of passes you can drive in short distance. For instance, the very famous Sellaronda: Sella, Pordoi, Campolongo and Gardena.

Many others indeed: you can for instance drive Resia, Stelvio, Foscagno, Forcella di Livigno, Aprica, Mortirolo, Gavia and Tonale all in one day.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Frank IBC said:


> Beautiful photos, 71Piotr. Switzerland at 2,300 m above sea level looks exactly like Bolivia at 4,300 m above sea level. :cheers1:


I noticed that with the United States as well. I've seen videos of Pikes Peak Road, that goes up to 4.302 meters, but looks like just about any Alpine road just over the tree line at 2.400 m or so. The Rocky Mountains are rather disappointing if you're used to Alpine scenery with snow-capped mountains and large glaciers, combined with deep valleys and large differences between the valley floor and the summits. (unless you go further north into Canada and Alaska).


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## Coccodrillo (Sep 30, 2005)

Main roads and railways in the Rocky Mountains are also often high compared to those in the Alps (2.500-3.000 m vs 1.000 to 1.500) and with few tunnels (the longest for road in the Rocky Mountains is less than 3 km long, compared to the many between 10 and 17 km in the Alps). Also long rail tunnels are not so common in the Rocky Mountains (although there are some above 8 km in length as railways need not so steep ramps).


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

g.spinoza said:


> In Italy there's plenty of passes you can drive in short distance. For instance, the very famous Sellaronda: Sella, Pordoi, Campolongo and Gardena.
> 
> Many others indeed: you can for instance drive Resia, Stelvio, Foscagno, Forcella di Livigno, Aprica, Mortirolo, Gavia and Tonale all in one day.


Of course you can, I've driven myself the Sellaronda 3 or 4 times I think.

What I think attracts foreign drivers more to the Susten-Grimsel-Furka-Gotthard is that roads there are mostly wide. I mean: really wide for Alpine standards. So much more comfortable for "low country" drivers that see anything above 1000m as a tall mountain :banana:

Also, it is possible to fit them in an otherwise straightforward route to Italy.


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

ChrisZwolle said:


> I noticed that with the United States as well. I've seen videos of Pikes Peak Road, that goes up to 4.302 meters, but looks like just about any Alpine road just over the tree line at 2.400 m or so. The Rocky Mountains are rather disappointing if you're used to Alpine scenery with snow-capped mountains and large glaciers, combined with deep valleys and large differences between the valley floor and the summits. (unless you go further north into Canada and Alaska).


The Rockies in Colorado are too close to Equator and too far from a major humidity source to have significant snow accumulation to form glaciers.

Moreover, whereas the Alps are giant mountains popping in the middle of otherwise gentle low hilly terrain, the eastern slopes of the Rockies rise above an already high plateau that rises slowly from the Missouri. Denver, which is the last major city "in the Plains", is 1600m high.



Coccodrillo said:


> Main roads and railways in the Rocky Mountains are also often high compared to those in the Alps (2.500-3.000 m vs 1.000 to 1.500) and with few tunnels (the longest for road in the Rocky Mountains is less than 3 km long, compared to the many between 10 and 17 km in the Alps). Also long rail tunnels are not so common in the Rocky Mountains (although there are some above 8 km in length as railways need not so steep ramps).


Non-urban road tunnels are incredible scarce in US. The Eisenhower tunnel is the longest one in US, with a meager length of 2.700m. But its portals are very high, above 3100m, which is higher than any paved public though road in Europe. Gosh, even the nearby Loveland pass is higher than that (3.670m as I read) and _open year-round_.

"Base Tunnels" don't make sense in the Rockies anyway, they are hundreds of kms wide at the narrowest point.


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## Coccodrillo (Sep 30, 2005)

Suburbanist said:


> Gosh, even the nearby Loveland pass is higher than that (3.670m as I read) and _open year-round_.


So no danger of avalanches, there...


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Hazmat trucks are not allowed in the Eisenhower Tunnel, so they must use the Loveland Pass. I'm wondering what's more dangerous, driving through a tunnel with hazardous goods or carry them in treacherous winter conditions across a steep pass.

There is a similar issue in the Netherlands, where hazardous goods are not permitted in certain tunnels so hazmat trucks have to drive through city centers or otherwise residential areas to avoid them.


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## Frank IBC (Jan 14, 2008)

In Bolivia the treeline is around 4,000 m and the snowline is around 6,000 m. The humidity from the Amazon basin brings snow, but with warming the glaciers are starting to disappear.

No tunnels in Bolivia (nor in Peru). The principal passes are all higher than 4,400 m, higher than the highest mountains in the continental USA. The highest, in Ticlio, Peru, 4,818 m, is 8 m higher than Mont Blanc.

The density of the atmosphere at these altitudes is between 55% and 60% of that of sea level.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

Suburbanist said:


> What I think attracts foreign drivers more to the Susten-Grimsel-Furka-Gotthard is that roads there are mostly wide. I mean: really wide for Alpine standards.


I like narrower (but not narrow) roads across mountain passes, so I feel more in touch with nature.


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## Coccodrillo (Sep 30, 2005)

Trucks with danegrous goods are neither allowed on long transalpine tunnel. When they have to pass the tunnel is closed to other traffic, with these trucks running in batches (that's done also whern the Loveland pass is closed). That's why there are many such trucks on the Simplon pass and on trains in Switzerland.


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Verso said:


> I like narrower (but not narrow) roads across mountain passes, so I feel more in touch with nature.


Then try the not very familiar Sella Chiampon,one small but very fascinating road :cheers:
Sella Ronda,Dammastock Runde - what beatiful names you here around here.Once i drived 21 pass roads on one day in the Dolomiti region and it isnt realy hard cause you have so many passroads around Canazei :cheers:maybe i can find a tour that has 30 pass roads and brake my record
How about a little contest,you have to make a tour max.500km,with so many differed pass roads as possible?


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

ChrisZwolle said:


> I noticed that with the United States as well. I've seen videos of Pikes Peak Road, that goes up to 4.302 meters, but looks like just about any Alpine road just over the tree line at 2.400 m or so. The Rocky Mountains are rather disappointing if you're used to Alpine scenery with snow-capped mountains and large glaciers, combined with deep valleys and large differences between the valley floor and the summits. (unless you go further north into Canada and Alaska).


The thing to remember about the Rockies, at least at the latitude of Colorado, is that the Great Plains slope gradually, getting higher as you move west, so the "flat" lands east of the mountains are actually a mile above sea level. Denver's nickname is the Mile-High City. The highest peaks in the Rockies are 14,000 feet (4,500 meters-ish?) above sea level, but only 9,000 feet (3,000 meters) above the country at their base.

EDIT: I see Suburbanist already said this.


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

Coccodrillo said:


> Trucks with danegrous goods are neither allowed on long transalpine tunnel. When they have to pass the tunnel is closed to other traffic, with these trucks running in batches (that's done also whern the Loveland pass is closed). That's why there are many such trucks on the Simplon pass and on trains in Switzerland.


You see these along the Pennsylvania Turnpike:

http://www.aaroads.com/northeast/pennsylvania075/i-076_eb_exit_189_01.jpg

Good luck reading it at speed, but presumably those affected by it know the symbols.


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## Le Clerk (Oct 22, 2007)

I'll post here a few pics of TransBucegi road - another recently built alpine road at over 2.000 m high in Central Romania:













A small part of the road loooks like this and one needs a capable off-roader to go there, and luckily there are plenty offroaders who do taxing at good prices (about 15 EUR/person for a 35 km ride on the alpine road). The "road" will stay like that on that section because it is part of a protected natural parc:


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

Le Clerk said:


> The "road" will stay like that on that section because it is part of a protected natural parc


So? :nuts:


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## IceCheese (Dec 20, 2006)

Frank IBC said:


> Beautiful photos, 71Piotr. Switzerland at 2,300 m above sea level looks exactly like Bolivia at 4,300 m above sea level. :cheers1:


We're lucky if it's that green at 1.300 meters! :lol:
https://maps.google.no/?ll=61.53317...T8gAh3V0l8fYLBCta4fLzg&cbp=12,172.19,,0,10.51


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

IceCheese said:


> We're lucky if it's that green at 1.300 meters! :lol:
> https://maps.google.no/?ll=61.53317...T8gAh3V0l8fYLBCta4fLzg&cbp=12,172.19,,0,10.51


Where in Norway does the treeline reach 0m? I now Trømso has trees but Nordkapp doesn't.


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## Le Clerk (Oct 22, 2007)

Verso said:


> So? :nuts:


So it should stay that way for an authentic safari experience. :lol:

At least at night there are chances to meet bears so not far from it. :cheers:


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

Over Ljubelj/Loibl (Slovenia-Austria) in 10 minutes.


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## IceCheese (Dec 20, 2006)

Suburbanist said:


> Where in Norway does the treeline reach 0m? I now Trømso has trees but Nordkapp doesn't.


About 70 degrees North. At the opposite of the Atlantic (in Canada), it's just 55 degrees though.


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## turangalia (Mar 16, 2012)

*in France higher than the mountain pass of Iseran 2770m is the road near on Cime/peak of Bonette with 2802m.*









*Observatory/telescope Mountain Chateaurenard France at 2931 meters reached by car.*









*and higher with this stony track near on the mountain pass of JANDRI the highest "stony road in france"*
*at the top of the hill you are at 3170 meters the highest track road of France*

*this stony track which rises at 3170 meters can be reached by mountain bike and 4 wheel drive vehicles.*
http://www.centcols.org/libre_service/jandri/col_du_jandri.htm
*this is the second highest track road in Europe.*


*the highest track road in Europe is in SPAIN, SIERRA NEVADA, PICO DEL VELETA 3398 meters*
http://www.bicycles.net.au/2011/05/travel-log-cycling-to-the-highest-spot-in-europe/







only reached by mountain bike


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## Le Clerk (Oct 22, 2007)

Awesome! :drool:


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Panoramica delle Vette :cheers:
I hope they will never asphalt the raod like they say they will do almost every year hno:






Btw:This is for sure the most complicated forum i known when it comes to puting videos in


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

Zagor666 said:


> Panoramica delle Vette :cheers:
> I hope they will never asphalt the raod like they say they will do almost every year hno:
> 
> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39jE9zPpd9I&">YouTube Link</a>
> ...


Nice. The Crostis road was planned to be included in the 2011 Giro d'Italia together with the Zoncolan but was rejected because too dangerous.


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

italystf said:


> Nice. The Crostis road was planned to be included in the 2011 Giro d'Italia together with the Zoncolan but was rejected because too dangerous.


Well,i saw a few times that the Giro competitors cycled over such roads,not in the friuli region but in the Italian-French border region,i belive it was the Colle delle Finestre


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Furkajoch :cheers:


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## Satyricon84 (Feb 3, 2009)

My pis of the Julierpass (CH), section from Silvaplana to the top and back

Part1/2


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## Satyricon84 (Feb 3, 2009)

Part 2/2


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Nice. Julierpass is quite spectacular driving south, with a view on the lake and the Bernina Group.


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Hochtannbergpass :cheers:


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Via Mala road :cheers:


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## piotr71 (Sep 8, 2009)

*Umbrail Pass/ Giogo di Santa Maria/Pass da l'Umbrail.*


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Splügenpass/Passo Spluga :cheers:


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## piotr71 (Sep 8, 2009)

That's a road. It recalls this one...to a certain extend, of course.


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Malojapass :cheers:


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

Very surprised to see an altitude in feet!

Nice pics, but is it possible to post them in a width that doesn't require horizontal scrolling? Not just because it's annoying but because you can't see the whole picture at once?

(Speaking only for myself, of course.)

Thanks!


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Penn's Woods said:


> Very surprised to see an altitude in feet!
> 
> Nice pics, but is it possible to post them in a width that doesn't require horizontal scrolling? Not just because it's annoying but because you can't see the whole picture at once?
> 
> ...


Sure,how about 1024x768 :cheers:


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Passo Stelvio,recorded 10 years ago :cheers:


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ Is there any Alpine Pass above 1200m in the Alps that you haven't driven yet  ?


sure there is;many,many of them.i dont think that i am going to manage to drive every pass in the alps before i drive to hell :devil:

zillertaler höhenstrasse(2001) :cheers:


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Hahntennjoch(2001) :cheers:
a beautiful alpine road in austria and,oh wonder,its for free


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

:cheers:


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

this is certainly a big one of the alpine passes, the passo gavia :cheers:


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## -Pino- (Aug 12, 2007)

Below are some pictures of China's G312 through the Pamirs. This is the Karakoram Highway from Kashgar in China to Pakistan. Unfortunately I did not make the whole trip down there, as the initial 200 kms or so suggest a great ride ...


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Passo di Monte Croce di Comelico / Kreuzbergpass :cheers:



the rio grande,almost as beautiful as the soča river


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

^ Where did you get Rio Grande?


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Verso said:


> ^ Where did you get Rio Grande?


on a sign. i have a look,maybe i can find it :cheers:
strange is i cant find anything in the whole internet
the picture was taken between the peak of the road and the caravan park sexten


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## Moravian (Oct 4, 2010)

Zagor666 said:


> on a sign. i have a look,maybe i can find it :cheers:
> strange is i cant find anything in the whole internet
> the picture was taken between the peak of the road and the caravan park sexten


Great countryside of the Alps. And the border of the bilingual area of Südtirol. The springs of Drava and Piave are located quite close but "Rio Grande", it sounds really weird....


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

unbeliavable,i realy found something without searching for it 6hrs :lol:


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## Moravian (Oct 4, 2010)

Austria: B145 Salzkammergutstrasse - der Pötschenpass


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

River is "fiume" in Italian, so I don't get it why "rio".


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Verso said:


> River is "fiume" in Italian, so I don't get it why "rio".


Rio means river in Venetian language. Maybe also in Friulian but I'm not sure.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

^ Wikipedia says fiume in Venetian and flum in Friulan. :dunno:


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Verso said:


> ^ Wikipedia says fiume in Venetian and flum in Friulan. :dunno:


I'm no Venetian, but "fiume" seems wrong.

All canals in Venice are called "rio". Maybe "rio" means canal, not river.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

g.spinoza said:


> All canals in Venice are called "rio".


Except Canal Grande. :shifty:


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

i thought that fiume is a small river like in serbo-croatian potok or in german bach and rio a real river like reka in serbo-croatian or fluss in german. question: do you know what is so special about the rio tagliamento?


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

You can see it from space.


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Verso said:


> You can see it from space.


could be :colgate:
its the only river in the alps whose course was never "corrected".it flows 100% naturaly like it was 10.000 years ago


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Zagor666 said:


> i thought that fiume is a small river like in serbo-croatian potok or in german bach and rio a real river like reka in serbo-croatian or fluss in german.


No, "fiume" means river: Fiume Nilo (River Nile), Fiume Danubio (River Danube)... the equivalent to German "bach" in Italian is "torrente" or "ruscello".

"Rio" is considered archaic in Italian and not used any more. It survives in some dialects, though.


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## verreme (May 16, 2012)

Not really Alpine since it's not in the Alps, but here's the highest mountain pass in the Pyrenees, 2,408-meter tall Port d'Envalira in Andorra:


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

Road to Monte Zoncolan (Province of Udine, Italy)

Part 1





Part 2


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

Strada Panoramica delle Vette (Scenic Road of the Peaks), that makes a loop around the Monte Crostis (province of Udine, Italy). Highest elevation: 1930m. Part is paved, the rest is gravel.


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

SP22 road to Piave river source, 1830m (Belluno province, Italy)


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

SP148 road from Romano d'Ezzelino to Monte Grappa (1775m, famous WWI memorial, province of Vicenza, Italy)


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

Passo San Boldo: mountain road with every harpin turn built inside a tunnel, constructed during WWI (provinces of Treviso\Belluno, Italy)


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## bigic (Aug 29, 2014)

These roads look really narrow, that on them 2 cars won't fit.


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## toma.bacic (Oct 19, 2008)

Russian road on Vršič pass; Slovenia, June 2015. 




























regards from Zagreb
toma


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

^^Why is it called 'Russian road'?


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## Aokromes (Jan 5, 2005)

^^ According wiki, build by Russian prisoners.
Crazy road, according wiki 50 U turns are needed to cross it O_O


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

Aokromes said:


> ^^ According wiki, build by Russian prisoners.
> Crazy road, according wiki 50 *U turns* are needed to cross it O_O


They're called harpin turns, an U turn is when you turn back reversing your car in the same road.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

No one uses this name though. If you said "I'll drive on the Russian Road today", no one would know what you're talking about, even if you said it in Kranjska Gora or Bovec. Or if they knew (because most of us know it was built by Russians), they would say "You mean you'll drive over Vršič?".


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## Broccolli (May 30, 2010)

Aokromes said:


> ^^ According wiki, build by Russian prisoners.





italystf said:


> ^^Why is it called *'Russian road*'?



Because of problems supplying the Isonzo hinterland, even before the outbreak of the war the Austrian army decided to build a mountain road over Vršič. Due to the lack of labour, they used the Russian prisoners of war for the construction. The intensive work started in autumn of 1915. In winter, on 12th March 1916, from the steep slopes of Mojstrovka an enormous avalanche buried a large number of prisoners and their guards. Nobody knows the exact number of those who died, but the data reveals that 170 to 300 Russian and 10 to 80 Austrian soldiers lost their lives. The idea of setting up a monument came while burying the victims.
http://www.slovenia.info/en/kapelica/Vršič,-Russian-Chapel.htm?kapelica=138&lng=2

*The Russian Chapel at Vršič *(Slovene: Ruska kapelica na Vršiču) is a Russian Orthodox chapel located on the Vršič Pass road in northwestern Slovenia. The chapel, dedicated to Saint Vladimir, was built by Russian prisoners of war engaged in forced labor in the area during World War I. It serves as both a war memorial and a symbolic link between Slovenia and Russia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Chapel_at_Vršič


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Highest road in the Alps, Colle del Sommeiller. It is unpaved but open to regular motorized traffic (requires 4x4 sturdy vehicles, or bikes).
Pics taken by me, who hiked all the way to the summit (Colle del Sommeiller, 2993 m).


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

^^I though that that road had been closed to traffic years ago, when the skiing facility on the top shut down. If it's still open, it's the highest public road in Europe (since the A-395 road to Pico de la Veleta, Spain, 3,367 meters, is closed to motorized traffic).
However, since Colle del Sommeiller is not accessible by regular passenger cars, the record is disputable (a public road usually can be driven by any car).
The highest public road in Europe usable by any vehicle is the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ötztal_Glacier_Road .


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

The road is obviously open only during summer (July-September). In this period, it is unrestricted only during weekdays (Mon-Fri). During weekends it is closed at ~2150 m, where there is an alpine hut with a large parking area (pic also taken by me, there was a huge motorbike gathering last Sunday):


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Some other pictures of the Colle del Sommeiller road, as seen by the path leading to the Colle d'Etiache:






































This section goes roughly from 2200 m to 2500 m.


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## mw123 (Oct 23, 2009)

Lindis Pass, New Zealand


Lindis Pass by Chris Gin, on Flickr


Lindis Pass #2 by Ghislain Mary, on Flickr


Lindis Pass - NZ by Garry, on Flickr​


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

Stunning view on a minor and unknown Alpine road in Veneto:
https://www.google.it/maps/@45.8772776,11.8446177,17z


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## Japanac (Jan 20, 2013)

Working on the Katschberg pass today, 1641 meters, Austrian bundessstrasse 99:














































:cheers:


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## Japanac (Jan 20, 2013)

This Italian wanted to pass so he made big stau 'cause this local didn't want to move his mercedes. Btw they shoulded put a semafor:










:cheers:


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## Japanac (Jan 20, 2013)

That is the end. Hope now when they finish with upgrading with road from Renweng to Radstad it will be all possible to drive fast. But katschberg is to hilly to build as good road as on Tauern pass. :cheers:
Hope this goes in thit thread. :cheers:


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

Austrians could signpost Kranj and Celje here. =)









http://picasaweb.google.com/1064392...id=Y-GOWjSzjWw_3DrWx_71lQ#5523868820633915986 by Snečer All in


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Passo Stalle (Staller Sattel) as seen from the path leading to the Seespitze:


















I took the last one from the top of the Seespitze (3021 m):


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## bigcoaster (Aug 20, 2015)

"Port de la Bonaigua" a 2072 m. mountain pass in Lleida (Catalonia) one of the highest in the Pyrenees. There is a ski resort on it, called Baqueira Beret, one of the best resorts in the Pyrenees. This route is one of the 3 entrances that has the Val d'Aran, the most alpine section of the Pyrenees. The other routes are by the Garona valley (France) and the Vielha tunnel (5230 m.) also in Catalonia. 

There is a project for a long tunnel to avoid this pass, this tunnel would be 4000 metres long, located between de 1800 m and 1700 m. Every year the pass has to close for one, two or even three months due to avalanches and huge quantitites of snow on the road.

As you can see it is quite sneaky.









Some of the machines that take part in the cleaning of the pass after the snow falls.









The highest point of the pass. You can see a restaurant on the left that used to be a hostel when there was no road, and a ski lift on the right. There's also an old snowblower kept on the top of the pass.









Winter daily rutine.









One of the multiple signs located before the pass on both sides to inform about the state of the road. In this case it is closed due to avalanche danger.


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## Broccolli (May 30, 2010)

*Prelaz Predel/Passo di Predil* (1156 m)

Italian side:




















Slovenian side:





































All photos taken by me


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Three alpine roads in one location:

-Colle delle Finestre (2176 m) road (https://www.google.it/maps/dir/45.0...71103,7.0571725,14.5z/data=!4m3!4m2!3e0!5i1):

The road connects Susa and Chisone valleys, in province Turin. This picture shows the last kilometers of the road (side of Chisone valley, south), before the Colle delle Finestre, also visible left of the pic:









Technically the Susa side and few km of the Chisone side are called SP172. This denomination does not follow the main road down to Chisone valley but continues on the unpaved road which branches off the second hairpin and is barely visible in the woods, upper-right part of the picture.


https://www.google.it/maps/place/Te...0x0000000000000000:0x62b713ced1aeb586!5m1!1e4
- Branching off the Colle delle Finestre road, few km from the pass, there is the Assietta road, an unpaved (but open for traffic during summer) road, classified SP173. It's the one in the centre-right of the picture. It's 35 km long and connects SP172 with Sestriere, always above 2000 m reaching up 2500 near the top of Testa dell'Assietta peak. My picture shows only the beginning of the road at SP172:










- Last but not least, the Colle della Vecchia military road (https://www.google.it/maps/dir/[email protected],6.9995024,14.5z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e2). Now closed for traffic (but open for bicycles), it branches off SP172 few meters below the Colle delle Finestre at ~2100 m. It cuts the southern face of Monte Pintas-Punta Fattiere massif:

















climbing up to almost 2800 m near the top of Monte Ciantiplagna:

























And reconnecting to the Assietta road after 13 km, near the Testa dell'Assietta. It is generally still in good shape:

























Except for some collapsed sections:


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Iseran, pass and road as seen from the path leading to Pointe des Lessières (3043 m, west of the Col):


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Last hairpin turns of the Moncenisio/Mont-Cenis road before the pass, from the Italian side:


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

A quick glimpse of the road leading to the summit of Flagstaff Mountain from Boulder, Colorado:


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## roaddor (Oct 13, 2015)

Is Stelvio pass opening beginning of June, depending on weather conditions of course?


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

roaddor said:


> Is Stelvio pass opening beginning of June, depending on weather conditions of course?


It usually opens the last week of May. However check the condition before attempting driving there.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

US 24 in Colorado between Tennessee Pass and Leadville (altitude ~ 3100 m)


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

It's interesting how the Rocky Mountains are the same height as the Alps, but the mountain passes are much higher. There are almost no mountain passes over 2500 m in the Alps, but there are plenty up to 3500 m in the Rockies.


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's interesting how the Rocky Mountains are the same height as the Alps, but the mountain passes are much higher. There are almost no mountain passes over 2500 m in the Alps, but there are plenty up to 3500 m in the Rockies.


The paved roads are also much wider, even "tight" mountain roads like the Mt. Evans ascent route are quite wide by Alpine standards.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

Trees at 3100 m?


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Yeah, the tree line is also much higher, in fact, only the highest mountain passes in Colorado (usually those over 3400 m) are above the tree line.

And I noticed the much wider roads too. I've filmed some Alpine roads where Americans commented how narrow and difficult the road seemed, while I thought it was nothing particularly difficult by Alpine standards. I've seen a number of videos from the Rocky Mountains where passes have two wide lanes, wide turns and sometimes paved shoulders.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

I don't like wide mountain roads (except very important ones), I don't feel nature then.


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## roaddor (Oct 13, 2015)

USA is a vast country, a continent I could say, so it needs big and wide roads for the traffic even in the mountains. The more width the more comfort and safety, I appreciate such roads.


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## 00Zy99 (Mar 4, 2013)

It must be understood that those roads in the Rocky Mountains are:

A) generally somewhat newer

B) often originally designed to service mines

Both of which mean that they are more adapted to larger automobiles.


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## mitasis (Feb 21, 2007)

Highest alpine pass (paved road) in Greece:

*Baros Pass* passing between Thessaly region to Epirus region in Northwestern Greece.

Highest Point: Baros (altitude 1940m)

https://www.google.gr/maps/dir/Καλα...500bd2ce2bb30e0!2m2!1d21.2185639!2d39.6614978


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

The fruition of Colle del Sommeiller road, the highest road in Europe open to motorized traffic, has changed this year. Now it is a toll road (5 € per vehicle), open from 9 to 17 every day (except on Thursdays, when it's closed).

Some pictures taken during my stay at the Colle doing research on permafrost.

1- Colle del Sommeiller (3000 m) as seen from hiking trail above it:









2- Last hairpins before the Colle:









3- Colle as seen from the top of Mount Sommeiller:









4- Section called "Pian dei Frati" (Friars' Plains), @ 2600 m









5- Another view of Pian dei Frati from a distance:









6- Panorama:


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

^^The highest point accessible by vehicles appears to be at 2,991 meters.
That could be the highest public road in Europe, after the Pico de la Veleta road near Granada, Spain, has been closed in the 1990s.

A video of the last km of that road:


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

My handheld GPS receiver also measured 2991 at the parking.

The road was in surprisingly good conditions: during my stay even a Renault 4 and a Citroën AX managed to get to the Colle.


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

I wouldn't mind tolls being charged if they paved the road.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Suburbanist said:


> I wouldn't mind tolls being charged if they paved the road.


The maintenance of this road is extremely expensive as it is (snowplowing, reconstructing sections that collapse during winter, rockslides and rock removal, etc...)

The road was in large part paved with asphalt in the past, which I think was removed at a certain moment (some small sections with bad asphalt still remain at Pian dei Frati). It was used from 1962 to 1984 for summer skiing on the now near-extinct Sommeiller Glacier.
The administration at the municipality of Bardonecchia, which owns the last section of the road, does not want it to be too busy with cars. The toll is a way to finance maintenance but also to discourage some people, and I agree with that.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

The toll is more acceptable than those high charges for Austrian scenic mountain roads. Timmelsjoch charges € 21 for a return trip, not to mention € 35.50 for the Großglockner.


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

Well, I think higher tolls could be charged to more Alpine passes, making them touristic destinations with some infrastructure that enhances (spread stop/vantage points/view platforms) instead of detract (a bunch of cramped stuff at the summit). Passo del Rombo is the 'gold standard' for me in that regard. 

I am also in favor of completion of the few easy-ish km within the Gran Paradiso area needed to make a new Aosta-Piemonte connection. It is a pity they stopped finalizing the road works there decades ago, it would be a very interesting valley/alpine drive.


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

ChrisZwolle said:


> The toll is more acceptable than those high charges for Austrian scenic mountain roads. Timmelsjoch charges € 21 for a return trip, not to mention € 35.50 for the Großglockner.


Gloßflockner is losing some of its unique appeal because the glacier is retreating fast. It is still an interesting area to visit, but the impressions people would have gotten there until the early 1980s is no longer there.

I like the somehow desolate summer look of alpine environment above the tree line. It is always interesting to observe the subtle changes in vegetation as you climb. 

I know the Alpine glacier retreat is influenced by global warming, but it appears it has been happening since the beginning of 19th Century, although some glaciers in the northern side were still advancing until 1890 or so.

Timmelsjoch/Passo Rombo has some great views and fitting artwork spread through the route, I'm not sure however driving both ways would cut it. It is probably quicker to make both routes a through-drive, unless you are having holidays in Sölden or Salzburg..


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Suburbanist said:


> I know the Alpine glacier retreat is influenced by global warming, but it appears it has been happening since the beginning of 19th Century, although some glaciers in the northern side were still advancing until 1890 or so.


That's true, in fact the coal-burning era began just few decades earlier.
Keep in mind that the "little ice age" between 1400 and 1800 made the glacier advance, so even without anthropogenic warming, at the natural end of the era the glaciers would have retreated anyways.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Yesterday I made this video of Colle del Sommeiller road during a helicopter ride from the pass to Scarfiotti hut. Unfortunately I was in the backseat of the Aerospatiale SA 315B "Lama" and I wasn't able to get all the road in frame.
Hope you like it:


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## panda80 (Sep 2, 2008)

A smaller pass in The Bavarian Alps, Achenpass (941 m). The video shows the full drive from Tegernsee to Sylvenstein Lake, over The German Alpine Road. The pass is not high, but the views around are still very beautiful, with mountains at over 1800m. Enjoy!


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## panda80 (Sep 2, 2008)

And another small pass in The Bavarian Alps, Ursprungpass (840m). It is the only road connection between Germany and Austria for a long distance, from A93-A12 till Achenpass there is no other road over the northern ridge of The Alps.


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## Ni3lS (Jun 29, 2007)

Nice! Filmed with a GoPro mounted on the outside? 

I filmed quite a few mountain passes as well last week, hope to post them sometime soon.


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## panda80 (Sep 2, 2008)

Ni3lS said:


> Nice! Filmed with a GoPro mounted on the outside?
> 
> I filmed quite a few mountain passes as well last week, hope to post them sometime soon.


GoPro, but from the inside. There are some reflexions from time to time, when the sun radiates directly into the windshield. Didn't tried from the outside, then the quality should be better, but I risk losing my camera and I cannot comment the video anymore.


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## Ni3lS (Jun 29, 2007)

Ah right. I did some research on that and apparently a polarizer or something to put on top of the dashboard might help with the reflections. I have a lot of those in my videos as well


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

The best way to get rid of the reflections is by putting a black blanket or fabric over the dashboard. That doesn't eliminate glare from driving into the sun though. 

There are a couple of problems with recording mountain roads;

winding roads means you'll drive into the sun from time to time, even if you time it to go mostly with the sun from behind
tree-lined roads result in a lot of light changes, which looks bad on video
Youtube compression is particularly bad for driving videos, in particular when there is a lot of fast-changing detail (trees, brush, mountains). The compression is optimized for static camera positions, but with driving video, each pixel in each frame will be different, so compression quickly results in pixelization. This is less visible on videos of motorways than of secondary roads.


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## Ni3lS (Jun 29, 2007)

This guy uses a GoPro Hero 7 as well and films in 4K. He does not have any reflections though, seems like its mounted on the hood of the car:


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

He also has the glare problem. I'm not sure if quality is much better than filming from inside the car with the dash covered. 

It takes a high-end computer to edit and render a 4K60fps video.


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## panda80 (Sep 2, 2008)

The next video shows a very nice mountain road, namely the whole Pitztal road (L16), from Imst until the end of it in Mittelberg. Pitztal valley is one of the most spectacular alpine valleys in Austria, with mountains going as high as 3500m on its sides. The road climbs about 1000m in 35km, from ca. 750m asl. in Imst to 1760 m asl. at its end. There are some pictuoresque villages on the valley, from which a lot of hikes are starting. From the end of the road one can go by a funicular and cable car to the highest cafe of Austria, at 3440m asl, on a mountain peak offering wonderful views to the glaciers around and to the highest mountain in the state of Tyrol, Wildspitze (3768m).


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

What's the average watch time for real-time videos with a duration of 40 or even 70 minutes? My videos are in the 40-50% range, but they are mostly not longer than 10-12 minutes.


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## panda80 (Sep 2, 2008)

ChrisZwolle said:


> What's the average watch time for real-time videos with a duration of 40 or even 70 minutes? My videos are in the 40-50% range, but they are mostly not longer than 10-12 minutes.


I have more or less a constant 10-15 minutes watch time for longer videos, that are between 30-60 minutes long. I rarely made over 1h videos. But, as I watch and like more real-time videos, I make also real-time movies  One can always speed up in youtube. But if you want to slow-down a speeded video, you will loose quality. Maybe on a motorway a 3-4x can be ok, but I find in the mountains, with curves, maximal 2x is ok, afterwards I am getting dizzy while watching, and I have no time to look at the landscapes around, when it is moving so fast. I am mainly watching on a second computer or monitor while doing some other stuff on the main one. 1h video is nothing for me while watching, I watched also a lot of videos from USA that are over 10h long .

I would like to take you on a journey over The Fernpass (1210m) during the next video. Fernpass is a main pass over the northern ridge of The Alps, connecting Innsbrück with Reutte and the german motorway A7. It has also a big importance for long-distance traffic as it is the shortest connection between North-West Europe and North-East Italy. The road is just 1+1 and there is often congestion on the pass. A tunnel under it is planned. The views from the area are very nice, as the mountains around are over 2500m high. From the descent towards Lermoos there is a wonderful view of The Zugspitze Mountain, the highest in Germany (2962m). Unfortunately the weather was pretty bad, but I still hope you can enjoy this ride.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

panda80 said:


> Maybe on a motorway a 3-4x can be ok, but I find in the mountains, with curves, maximal 2x is ok, afterwards I am getting dizzy while watching, and I have no time to look at the landscapes around, when it is moving so fast.


I agree, in the past I did some mountain road videos a tad too fast, sometimes 2x is already too fast to take in all the scenery. Real-time videos are not my cup of tea though, the pacing is too slow for my liking. I also can't find the time to consume 40 or 70 minute videos regularly.


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## Le Clerk (Oct 22, 2007)




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## Le Clerk (Oct 22, 2007)

Transluncani, newest alpine pass in Romania, and equally spectacular.


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## Le Clerk (Oct 22, 2007)

And the "classic" Transfagarasan, by Polska.


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

I wonder if climate change, serious as it is, would have an unintended consequence of opening the possibility of some new Alpine pass riad being built over former ice fields once the soil stabilizes in the next 3 decades or so.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Which routes could become viable? I know some possible routes in Switzerland but those are lower elevation, like the Grosse Scheidegg. A road through there already exists. 

Most other missing links are not due to icefields, but impractical altitude differences or landscape impact (like Sanetsch or Gemmi Pass).


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Suburbanist said:


> I wonder if climate change, serious as it is, would have an unintended consequence of opening the possibility of some new Alpine pass riad being built over former ice fields once the soil stabilizes in the next 3 decades or so.


I guess there is a different sensitivity today to these issues. 
Just last week I was working at the weather station at Sommeiller pass, one of the highest roads in the Alps. The road was built during the 1960s, defacing an unspoiled valley, to exploit summer skiing on the Sommeiller Glacier, which retreated so fast that come the 80s it was basically abandoned. Now the road is kept as tourist attraction but with notable limitations (rough surface, toll, one or two total closure days per week):










My colleagues and I agreed that today, given different general opinion on environmental matters, such a road would have never been built in the first place.
Few years ago someone proposed to build a road on Sea Valley (Node: ‪Vallone di Sea‬ (‪6454474543‬) | OpenStreetMap) another largely unspoiled valley in the Alps. The negative response from the public was so strong that the proposal was soon put aside.


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## panda80 (Sep 2, 2008)

The next video shows another wonderful drive, not over a pass, but through an wonderful alpine valley. The 4k driving video features the road from Vorderriß (end of the german national road B307) to the mountain pastures of Eng (Engalm), in Austria. We drive through Rißtal Valley up to the end of the road, going deep into The Karwendel Mountains. The road is a toll road from Hinterriß to Eng. There are just very few inhabitants in the valley, as the road is mostly within The Karwendel Nature Park, a very nice conservation area, one of the less inhabited areas in Central Europe. The road is open just in summer (normally April-October), and is the only paved access road to this part of Austria.


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## Le Clerk (Oct 22, 2007)

A good informative video on Transfagarasan


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

g.spinoza said:


> I guess there is a different sensitivity today to these issues.
> Just last week I was working at the weather station at Sommeiller pass, one of the highest roads in the Alps. The road was built during the 1960s, defacing an unspoiled valley, to exploit summer skiing on the Sommeiller Glacier, which retreated so fast that come the 80s it was basically abandoned. Now the road is kept as tourist attraction but with notable limitations (rough surface, toll, one or two total closure days per week):
> 
> View attachment 432248
> ...


Hopefully in the future we will be ruled by environment-conscious leaders.
Because if public opinion will move towards the right and European countries will elect Trump or Bolsonaro-like populist leaders, we'll get back to 1960s environmental standards. And that would be a disaster for all us.


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## panda80 (Sep 2, 2008)

I did about 2 weeks ago a wonderful mountain drive over 2 passes: Filzensattel (saddle) and Dientner Saddle. There are very nice mountain views on the way, as the road goes at the foothills of the very impressive Hochkönig Mountain (2941m).


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## panda80 (Sep 2, 2008)

A smaller pass in The Austrian Alps, Wagrainer Höhe (961m), on the road B163. We start in the nice town of Sankt Johann im Pongau and drive over the Wagrainer Höhe mountain pass in order to reach the Enns Valley and finish the drive in Altenmarkt in Pongau. The area is a very famous ski destination with a big ski area, but offers also a lot of things to do for summer tourists and nature lovers, with a lot of easy family-friendly mountain trails waiting to be explored.


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## panda80 (Sep 2, 2008)

And now a wonderful mountain drive in Austria over a pretty high mountain pass (Radstädter Tauernpass, 1738m). We start in Radstadt, in The Enns River valley, and drive up to the pass, climbing about 900m on the way. After the pass we descend about 600m towards Mauterndorf. The road has an incredibly good alignment for an european alpine road, with gentle curves that make for a comfortable drive. After driving quite a lot through The Alps, I must say that in my opinion the austrian mountain roads have the best alignment, while in Italy and France there are much more curves. Switzerland is somewhere inbetween. In the pass area there is the well known wintersport resort of Obertauern, with over 100km of ski slopes. The pass road can be a free of charge alternative for the A10, as one will loose just 20-30 minutes when driving over the pass. Enjoy!


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## panda80 (Sep 2, 2008)

Did this summer, among other passes, a wonderful mountain drive over a pretty high austrian mountain pass (Turracher Höhe, 1795m). We start in Predlitz, a small village in The Mur River valley, and drive up to the pass, climbing about 900m on the way. After the pass we steeply descend (there is a section with 23% descent!) about 800m towards Patergassen. The road is ussually open also in winter, as it provides access to the village and ski area of Turracher Höhe. I integrated also a few photos from the nice pass area in the video.


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## panda80 (Sep 2, 2008)

A somewhat different mountain road, not in The Alps but in The Dinaric Alps in Croatia. On the way to the island of Cres, I took more time to explore also a little bit The Gorski Kotar region, and I was totally surprised how nice it is. I drove on the national road D3 instead of the motorway A6, and I liked a lot the views this road offers, to the mountains and to the seaside. From the top of the pass at almost 900m altitude a great panorama of the Kvarner Bay opens up. Enjoy!


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## x-type (Aug 19, 2005)

panda80 said:


> A somewhat different mountain road, not in The Alps but in The Dinaric Alps in Croatia. On the way to the island of Cres, I took more time to explore also a little bit The Gorski Kotar region, and I was totally surprised how nice it is. I drove on the national road D3 instead of the motorway A6, and I liked a lot the views this road offers, to the mountains and to the seaside. From the top of the pass at almost 900m altitude a great panorama of the Kvarner Bay opens up. Enjoy!


Oh, nice. Descent from Gornje Jelenje pass to Rijeka is really great. And there are meny similar descents at whole eastern Adriatic coast between Rijeka and Zadar, Split and Ploče, and in Montenegro.


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## panda80 (Sep 2, 2008)

x-type said:


> Oh, nice. Descent from Gornje Jelenje pass to Rijeka is really great. And there are meny similar descents at whole eastern Adriatic coast between Rijeka and Zadar, Split and Ploče, and in Montenegro.


I like them a lot, as they are very varied drives. On one side you have the mountain views, on the the other the seaside, with mostly a different vegetation also. Drove in the past some of the Montenegro's sea descent roads, will have to return to Croatia for more in the future.


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## panda80 (Sep 2, 2008)

It snowed during the last weeks in Bavaria, so I went to explore the amazing winter landscape while driving on a wonderful touristic toll road following the Isar Valley on its way through The Karwendel Mountains. We access the road from Mitenwald, driving on B2 and B11 until Wallgau, where the touristic road starts. It is 13 kilometers long and offers wonderful views to the mountains around. Isar Valley is very wild on this section, and one has the feeling of driving in places like West Canada or USA here, in the middle of Europe. Enjoy!


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Did you continue to the Risstal as well? I've been there many times when I was living in Munich, especially in summer.


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

These days you can't just drive from Germany to Austria. You'd need to go into quarantine.


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## panda80 (Sep 2, 2008)

g.spinoza said:


> Did you continue to the Risstal as well? I've been there many times when I was living in Munich, especially in summer.


Yes, but not now, as, like rheintram said, you have to into quarantine after coming back from Austria. However, I did this drive a few times in the past, as Karwendel is one of my favorite area for doing hikes. In winter is closed after Hinterriß, and there is a nice cross country skiing route going to Engalm. I filmed that road in summer:






Regarding quarantine rules, I think they should have made an exception for that area too, as there is an exception for Kleinwalsertal and Jungholz. There are some people living in Hinterriß, I don't know how they do with grocery shopping there.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

panda80 said:


> Regarding quarantine rules, I think they should have made an exception for that area too, as there is an exception for Kleinwalsertal and Jungholz. There are some people living in Hinterriß, I don't know how they do with grocery shopping there.


That's why I asked: being Risstal inaccessible from the rest of Austria, I thought that quarantine was different there.


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## Pitchoune (Jun 17, 2009)

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's interesting how the Rocky Mountains are the same height as the Alps, but the mountain passes are much higher. There are almost no mountain passes over 2500 m in the Alps, but there are plenty up to 3500 m in the Rockies.


Sorry for quoting a very old message 
The elevation of the plateau is also much higher than in Europe, Denver (the Mile-High City) is at 1 mile or 1609m and Grand Junction is at 1397m. Those cities are for the Rocky Mountains what Lyon and Torino would be for the Alps. Glenwood Springs is at 1756m and it would be like Grenoble. Aspen is at the base of a valley and it is already at 2438m. Leadville the highest city in USA is also at the base of a valley and it is at 3094m! The Rocky Mountains are like a 2000m high mountain range when seeing it from the plateau around it. The Alps are a true 4000m high range with respect to the plateau around that is not a plateau because almost at sea level. You have the same with Himalaya. From Nepalese/Indian side this is indeed a 7000/8000m high mountains range rising from around 500m only while the last large cities are at around 1500m (like Kathmandu). But on the Tibetan/Chinese side the plateau is at 4000/5000m already and the Himalaya is "only" a 3000/4000m high mountain range from that side, a bit smaller than the Alps.


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

g.spinoza said:


> That's why I asked: being Risstal inaccessible from the rest of Austria, I thought that quarantine was different there.


Is there permanent popultion there?


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Pitchoune said:


> Sorry for quoting a very old message


Besides altitude difference between the lowlands and summits, all lines of altitude are much higher. The tree line goes up to 3,500 meters in Colorado. Which is why despite the high altitude, there are not many mountain passes above the tree line compared to the Alps, where almost any pass over 2,000 meters is above the tree line. This also goes for snow and ice cover, there are no permanent glaciers in much of the Rocky Mountains. Despite the similar overall height of the mountains, this allows Colorado and other states to have roads at much higher altitudes than what would be possible in the Alps. Pikes Peak would be covered by massive glaciers at that altitude in the Alps. Although some snow survives the summer, there is few year-round snow cover in Colorado, even with so many 4,000+ meter peaks. 

I was recently reading up on the Mosquito Pass (13,185 ft or 4,019 meters), which is passable by 4x4 motor vehicle. This is the highest pass road in Colorado. There is one higher pass but it's only passable from one side. And there are Pikes Peak and Mount Evans Scenic Byway which are even higher, but not passes in a traditional sense.



















This is Alma, Colorado, the highest inhabited place in the United States at 3224 meters and houses going up to 3560 meters. Notice that it is still below the tree line. This altitude in the Alps would have permanent snow and ice cover.


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## Pitchoune (Jun 17, 2009)

3500m is the same than Lhassa. And most people have altitude sickness once they arrive in Lhassa for the first time. Amazing. In Europe i think the highest large area is the one around Livigno with many cities above 1500m and a couple of villages above 2000m.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

italystf said:


> Is there permanent popultion there?


Not sure but I guess Vorderriss is -sparsely- populated year-round. I don't think the same for Eng.


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

Pitchoune said:


> 3500m is the same than Lhassa. And most people have altitude sickness once they arrive in Lhassa for the first time. Amazing. In Europe i think the highest large area is the one around Livigno with many cities above 1500m and a couple of villages above 2000m.


Another pretty high (for European standards) European sizeable town is Davos, Switzerland, 11,000 people at 1,560 meters.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Likewise, the nearby Engadin Valley is also one of the highest valleys with a substantial population. St. Moritz sits at 1800 meters. These are all in the same general area (Davos, Engadin, Livigno). 

Juf is the highest village with permanent inhabitants in Europe, it sit at an elevation of 2,126 meters. It's also close to St. Moritz, but in a much more remote and sparsely populated area.


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

Sestriere, Italy, is the highest municipal seat in Europe, at 2,035 m.


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

italystf said:


> Is there permanent popultion there?


Yes there is. Also I just confirmed that there is an exception for everyone living in the village of Hinterriss (Risstal), i.e. there are no checks between Vorderriss (Bavaria) and Hinterriss (Tyrol).


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

rheintram said:


> Yes there is. Also I just confirmed that there is an exception for everyone living in the village of Hinterriss (Risstal), i.e. there are no checks between Vorderriss (Bavaria) and Hinterriss (Tyrol).


How it worked before Schengen?


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## rheintram (Mar 5, 2008)

Unlike Jungholz and Kleinwalsertal there were no customs exceptions in place as far as i know (the other two were economically treated as part of Germany) and it was always treated as Austrian in every respect. I suppose because there is such a tiny population there.

Technically Schengen is only about the freedom of movement of persons and not customs. So there were or could have been border checks between Kleinwalsertal/Jungholz and Germany but only for persons not for goods (customs). A bit of the reverse situation we have between the EU and Switzerland now, where there are no border checks for persons but still customs checks. But generally speaking border checks between Austria and Germany were always more lax than say between Italy and Austria. I vividly remember the Italians stopping us every single time, while the Germans usually waved us through. Also there were unstaffed border points and I assume that the Vorderriss/Hinterriss border was usually not staffed at all (or only staffed in exceptional cases).


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

ChrisZwolle said:


> This is Alma, Colorado, the highest inhabited place in the United States at 3224 meters and houses going up to 3560 meters. Notice that it is still below the tree line. This altitude in the Alps would have permanent snow and ice cover.


Not necessarily.
Southwestern Alps are free of snow and ice during summer at higher altitudes. I've been to Rocciamelone 3530 m and Pointe de Ronce, 3600+, without stepping on any ice or snow. Glaciers, or rather what remains of them, can be found only in their Northern faces and slopes.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Besides altitude difference between the lowlands and summits, all lines of altitude are much higher. The tree line goes up to 3,500 meters in Colorado. Which is why despite the high altitude, there are not many mountain passes above the tree line compared to the Alps, where almost any pass over 2,000 meters is above the tree line. This also goes for snow and ice cover, there are no permanent glaciers in much of the Rocky Mountains. Despite the similar overall height of the mountains, this allows Colorado and other states to have roads at much higher altitudes than what would be possible in the Alps. Pikes Peak would be covered by massive glaciers at that altitude in the Alps. Although some snow survives the summer, there is few year-round snow cover in Colorado, even with so many 4,000+ meter peaks.
> 
> I was recently reading up on the Mosquito Pass (13,185 ft or 4,019 meters), which is passable by 4x4 motor vehicle. This is the highest pass road in Colorado. There is one higher pass but it's only passable from one side. And there are Pikes Peak and Mount Evans Scenic Byway which are even higher, but not passes in a traditional sense.


Roads tend to be wider than European counterparts, too.
This is Loveland Pass @ 3654 m, which used to be the major route across the Rockies from Denver before the opening of Eisenhower tunnel:


















Another important route, from I-70 southbound, passes through Tennessee Pass at 3177 m:
















With nice pieces of engineering, too:


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

I get comments on my videos from time to time about how the mountain roads in the Alps would freak out American drivers. 😅 No shoulders, tight corners, difficult passing, lack of guardrails in some areas.


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

ChrisZwolle said:


> I get comments on my videos from time to time about how the mountain roads in the Alps would freak out American drivers. 😅 No shoulders, tight corners, difficult passing, lack of guardrails in some areas.


And maybe many Europeans would be scared to drive 200 km across a desert or a prairie with nothing around. Every area of the world has its own peculiarities.

US-550 in Colorado is often known as "most dangerous road in America" because of tight curves and lack of crashbarriers.
However, it seems pretty wide for two cars to meet each other.
Try to compare it to Alpine passes like Stelvio, Gavia, and many other.


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

italystf said:


> And maybe many Europeans would be scared to drive 200 km across a desert or a prairie with nothing around. Every area of the world has its own peculiarities.
> 
> US-550 in Colorado is often known as "most dangerous road in America" because of tight curves and lack of crashbarriers.
> However, it seems pretty wide for two cars to meet each other.
> Try to compare it to Alpine passes like Stelvio, Gavia, and many other.


The road up Mount Washington in New Hampshire is pretty hairy as I remember it (from the early 80s, with my dad driving).


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## Ni3lS (Jun 29, 2007)

I was in that area back in 2019. Unfortunately the independence pass was closed but here are 2 of my pics, the first in twin lakes and the second in Leadville.


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## Ni3lS (Jun 29, 2007)

And here a couple of pics from Stelvio last summer


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Ni3lS said:


> I was in that area back in 2019. Unfortunately the independence pass was closed but here are 2 of my pics, the first in twin lakes and the second in Leadville.
> 
> View attachment 985043
> 
> ...


I rented snowshoes from the shop in your second picture. I was there in May 2016 and Independence Pass was closed as well (seen here from Twin Lakes):










During my stay in Leadville I wanted to visit Aspen, so I had to drive around it (I-70 to Glenwood Springs)


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## Ni3lS (Jun 29, 2007)

Yea our original plan was also to go see Aspen. Just based on pop culture really. We were also there in May and there was still quite a bit of snow. We took the I-70 afterwards to continue towards Utah. I have lived in Colorado for a year and was always told that Aspen is not all that, especially when it comes to wintersports. Some of the movies that depict Aspen, e.g. Dumb and Dumber with Jim Carrey, are actually shot in Breckenridge. The area of Breckenridge - Keystone - Vail is really amazing anytime of year and I can highly recommend.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Ni3lS said:


> Yea our original plan was also to go see Aspen. Just based on pop culture really. We were also there in May and there was still quite a bit of snow. We took the I-70 afterwards to continue towards Utah. I have lived in Colorado for a year and was always told that Aspen is not all that, especially when it comes to wintersports. Some of the movies that depict Aspen, e.g. Dumb and Dumber with Jim Carrey, are actually shot in Breckenridge. The area of Breckenridge - Keystone - Vail is really amazing anytime of year and I can highly recommend.


I agree, I was disappointed by Aspen. I blamed it on the season (ski season was finished and hiking season was not commenced yet) but maybe you're right. Been to Breckenridge only passing, on my way to Hoosier Pass. I liked Frisco and Vail even more, they seemed quite "alive", as well as Glenwood Springs.


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## Ni3lS (Jun 29, 2007)

Here are 2 photos of the Sella pass in Italy from last summer:


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## Ni3lS (Jun 29, 2007)

And 2 more of Grimsel-Furka in Switzerland:


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## Ni3lS (Jun 29, 2007)

Oberalp pass in Switzerland last summer:


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Was the road wet or recently resurfaced? (or both?)

The Oberalppass is one of the few in Switzerland I haven't driven yet. It doesn't really fit into a circular trip like the other passes in Central Switzerland.


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## Ni3lS (Jun 29, 2007)

It was between rain showers  Can't remember the state of the road exactly. I have a bunch of 4K GoPro videos sitting on a hard drive.. Really no clue where to start as I have 0 experience with video.

Edit: point is, if I come around to editing / uploading some time you'll get a better impression I guess.


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## Ni3lS (Jun 29, 2007)

*Wolf Creek Pass, Colorado (2019)


























*


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

A song was written about Wolf Creek Pass in 1975.


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## Ni3lS (Jun 29, 2007)

Still a fair amount of snow at the end of May here on the pass. Although the weather in Colorado doesn't surprise me anymore 😅 A few days before we had snow in the grand canyon I remember 🤷‍♂️


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## Ni3lS (Jun 29, 2007)

*Simplon Pass, Switzerland



































*


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## Ni3lS (Jun 29, 2007)

*Passo Giau, Italy*
Unfortunately with very harsh lighting


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## Ni3lS (Jun 29, 2007)

Is there actually a general scenic roads thread? In the thread finder I did find 'Highways and natural scenery', but not all scenic roads are highways. I have quite a few photos of scenic roads that don't really qualify as alpine pass roads..


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Ni3lS said:


> Oberalp pass in Switzerland last summer:
> 
> View attachment 999665
> 
> ...


I'm always puzzled and amazed comparing such alpine roads abroad with Italian ones. In Italy they would have a continuous solid divider line, while it seems in Switzerland and elsewhere you can overtake someone even in the hairpin turns...


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

There are a lot of differences in the Alps overall. I found the Austrian mountain roads to be generally wider and beter designed than in most other countries. French mountain roads have few guardrails while others are almost entirely boxed in, for example the difference between France and Italy at the Petit St. Bernard is quite noticeable. And indeed whether passing is allowed or not.


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## Aokromes (Jan 5, 2005)

Georgia


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

Fremont Pass @11,381 ft (3450 m), on Coloradan continental divide between Leadville and Frisco. One of the widest, less mountain-like mountain roads I've ever driven.


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## panda80 (Sep 2, 2008)

ChrisZwolle said:


> There are a lot of differences in the Alps overall. I found the Austrian mountain roads to be generally wider and beter designed than in most other countries. French mountain roads have few guardrails while others are almost entirely boxed in, for example the difference between France and Italy at the Petit St. Bernard is quite noticeable. And indeed whether passing is allowed or not.


 I also find the austrian mountain roads to generally have a better alignment than the french and italian ones. Swiss ones are somewhere in the middle. The german ones are also pretty good, but there are no real high passes there, so it is difficult to compare them with the ones from high alpine countries.


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## panda80 (Sep 2, 2008)

One of my favorite drive in South Germany is the B11 national road, on its mountainous part, from Bichl (intersection with B472) to Mittenwald. We experience a fairytale winter landscape on the way, driving near the big lakes of Kochel and Walchensee. We cross also the Kesselbergpass (859m), famous for its hairpins. There are views to peaks over 2400m high as we approach the beautiful village of Mittenwald, start point for numerous mountain trails. Enjoy!


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## panda80 (Sep 2, 2008)

Another nice bavarian mountain pass is the Spitzingsattel (1129m), on the state road St2077. The road is a dead-end for most of the people, you can drive further to Valepp just with a special permit or you can travel by bus. Immediately after the pass there is the nice mountain resort of Spitzingsee, near the lake with the same name. Spitzingsee is one of my favorite area for doing hikes and walks in the nature, I am pretty often there. I also learned skiing on its ski slopes, not a big ski domain, but still very popular for daytrippers from Munich and around. I filmed the whole road from Irschenberg to Spitzingsee, over Fischbachau, all in all a nice mountain drive, having beautiful views to the high snowy mountains around. Enjoy!


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## sbondorf (Sep 17, 2009)

ChrisZwolle said:


> The Oberalppass is one of the few in Switzerland I haven't driven yet. It doesn't really fit into a circular trip like the other passes in Central Switzerland.


I beg to differ. Oberalp -> Lukmanier -> Gotthard is actually a really nice circular 3-pass trip which takes you through three out of four offical Swiss language areas. Highly recommendable.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

You're right, I think I meant the Klausen Pass.


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## panda80 (Sep 2, 2008)

Drove one week ago on the german Tegernsee - Sutten - Valepp touristic toll road. We travel through a wonderful winter landscape as we go deep into The Bavarian Alps, following the Rottach river. After the small touristic resort of Sutten, we climb to a small pass, at about 1000m asl., before descending to the Valepp valley. The road was closed for the last few kilometers to the austrian border because of snow. The area is a start point for numerous hikes on peaks like Risserkogel, Schinder or Bodenschneid. Enjoy!


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## panda80 (Sep 2, 2008)

Last weekend I did a trip on a very scenic drive in the Bavarian Alps, on a section of The German Alpine Road, the oldest touristic route in Germany. We climb from the mountain resort of Bayrischzell to Südelfeld Pass, having great views to Wendelstein Peak (1838m). After reaching the mountain pass, we do a tour through The Südelfeld area, a mountain plateau at altitudes between 1000-1200m, until the beautiful Rosengasse. There are nice views from the plateau to higher mountains around, like the famous Wilder Kaiser. The area is a start point for numerous hikes on peaks like Großer Traithen, Brünnstein or Wendelstein. Enjoy!


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## panda80 (Sep 2, 2008)

We continue on The German Alpine Road, the oldest touristic route in Germany. For the begining, we do a tour through The Südelfeld area, a mountain plateau at altitudes between 1000-1200m, starting at the beautiful Rosengasse hotel and restaurant. There are nice views from the plateau to higher mountains around, like the famous Wilder Kaiser. The area is a start point for numerous hikes on peaks like Großer Traithen, Brünnstein or Wendelstein. After joining the German Alpine Road after a few minutes, we start descending towards The Inn Valley, passing by Tatzelwürm Hotel. The road gets narrower and the landscape is just wonderful, enjoy!


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## Ni3lS (Jun 29, 2007)

Ni3lS said:


> It was between rain showers  Can't remember the state of the road exactly. I have a bunch of 4K GoPro videos sitting on a hard drive.. Really no clue where to start as I have 0 experience with video.
> 
> Edit: point is, if I come around to editing / uploading some time you'll get a better impression I guess.


Finally got around to it ;-) First video is driving the Oberalp Pass and the second is some drone footage


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## Ni3lS (Jun 29, 2007)

Video of the Grimselpass from 2020:


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

Scary access road to Ca' Zul reservoir and hydro power plant in Friulian Alps. It's mostly underground, with 2 narrow tunnels without concrete coating about 2 km long each.
It's not allowed to drive there for the general public, but some do anyway as there isn't any kind of barrier.




Location on OSM: OpenStreetMap


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

italystf said:


> 2 narrow tunnels without concrete coating


This is pretty common in Norway, including on fairly important roads. For example Riksvei 15 at the Strynefjell mountain tunnels, which is a pretty significant east-west route. These tunnels have bare rock, often uneven and may also be pretty narrow, especially the older ones built in the 1960s and 1970s.


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

ChrisZwolle said:


> This is pretty common in Norway, including on fairly important roads. For example Riksvei 15 at the Strynefjell mountain tunnels, which is a pretty significant east-west route. These tunnels have bare rock, often uneven and may also be pretty narrow, especially the older ones built in the 1960s and 1970s.


In Italy is very uncommon, almost all tunnels on public roads have concrete coatings. A notable exception is a short tunnel on SR 14 coastal road near Trieste, that opened in 1928.


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

italystf said:


> In Italy is very uncommon, almost all tunnels on public roads have concrete coatings. A notable exception is a short tunnel on SR 14 coastal road near Trieste, that opened in 1928.


Off the top of my head I remember some tunnels on the SS45bis "Gardesana" (west shore of Lake Garda):









Google Maps


Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




www.google.com


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## stickedy (Mar 8, 2011)

There is no need to use concrete when the rock above the tunnel is stable and there is no water coming inside. There are a lot of tunnels of this type all over Europe and the world.


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

Video of the *Colle del Sommeiller* road, the highest public road in Italy and Europe. It connects the town of Bardonecchia with the Sommeiller pass, in Piedmont region near the French border. The road dead-ends near the French border and it doesn't continue into France. The road ends at the elevation of *2,991 m*.
The road is 25 km long and mostly gravel (only the first 6 km starting from Bardonecchia are paved).




The road is usually open between May and November. In July, August, and September, between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m., a toll of 8€ is charged and during these months no motorized vehicles are allowed on Thursdays.
Google Maps link


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## MadMax87 (Oct 17, 2017)

italystf said:


> Video of the *Colle del Sommeiller* road, the highest public road in Italy and Europe. It connects the town of Bardonecchia with the Sommeiller pass, in Piedmont region near the French border. The road dead-ends near the French border and it doesn't continue into France. The road ends at the elevation of *2,991 m*.
> The road is 25 km long and mostly gravel (only the first 6 km starting from Bardonecchia are paved).
> 
> 
> ...



Stupendo


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

I did a video of the same road from a helicopter:


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## panda80 (Sep 2, 2008)

Furkapass in autumn:


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