# NEW YORK CITY | Subway



## superchan7

What I noticed is that Hong Kong's train cars are quite long compared to most other heavy rail systems. I usually see 3-4 pairs of doors per car in most metros, but HK's has 5 for all MTR and KCR lines. One train car is actually quite long, and MTR runs 8 of these per train. KCR runs 12 car trains on its main line.

Other cities that have 5 door pairs per compartment are Shenzhen and Guangzhou. Any others?


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## nikko

NYC had 10-car trains...once upon a time in the 80's, didn't they?


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## ignoramus

superchan7 said:


> What I noticed is that Hong Kong's train cars are quite long compared to most other heavy rail systems. I usually see 3-4 pairs of doors per car in most metros, but HK's has 5 for all MTR and KCR lines. One train car is actually quite long, and MTR runs 8 of these per train. KCR runs 12 car trains on its main line.
> 
> Other cities that have 5 door pairs per compartment are Shenzhen and Guangzhou. Any others?


I think the length of train cars is generally the same. Its just that MTR & KCR fits in more doors into each train car side for more passengers to embark/disembark easily and quickly.


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## mad_nick

nikko said:


> NYC had 10-car trains...once upon a time in the 80's, didn't they?


It still does, BMT/IND lines generally have either 8 75 foot cars or 10 60 foot cars (there are some exceptions), and the IRT lines (with the exception of the 42nd street shuttle, which has the shortest trains in the system) have 10 or more 50 foot cars.


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## nikko

mad_nick said:


> It still does, BMT/IND lines generally have either 8 75 foot cars or 10 60 foot cars (there are some exceptions), and the IRT lines (with the exception of the 42nd street shuttle, which has the shortest trains in the system) have 10 or more 50 foot cars.


Ohh okay.

Do people generally still differentiate between the different companies?

Because it would probably start to get confusing for people not used to the system.


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## mad_nick

^Not really, they were integrated into the NYCT over 50 years ago, since then the BMT and IND have been integrated, but the IRT tunnels are somewhat narrower than the BMT/IND tunnels, which were built to the same standard. So BMT/IND trains can't go through IRT tunnels, and while IRT trains can go through BMT/IND tunnels, they can't use them for passenger service since the BMT/IND platforms were designed for wider trains.
They're now called the A and B divisions by the TA, but it's not used by the public. The only way you as a passenger can tell it's an IRT line is the numbered line(instead of lettered) and the narrower and shorter cars.


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## mariusz_ny

mad_nick said:


> The only way you as a passenger can tell it's an IRT line is the numbered line(instead of lettered) and the narrower and shorter cars.


Don't forget that BMT/IND cars have 4 doors per side while IRT cars only 3 doors! 
And because of the competition of these three systems there is a maze in Downtown Brooklyn - try to make a transfer from the IND to others at Hoyt-Schermerhorn! :nuts: 


mad_nick said:


> with the exception of the 42nd street shuttle, which has the shortest trains in the system


(3 or 4 cars of R62 51'4" each) There is also the Franklin Shuttle with 2 cars 75' each (R68). Off-topic: Some portion of this line is a single rail. I rode this line twice or more and I like it.  It's a victory of the local community over the MTA.  :cheers: 


IRT's 7 line has 11 cars per train but it's only 168,3 m long.
The longest train in the BMT/IND system:
Most commonly trainsets:
8 cars 75' long each in a train = 183m.
8 or 10 cars 60' long = 146m or the same 183m long train.


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## hkskyline

*New York City - Fulton Street Behind Schedule & Scaled Back*

*SUBWAY HUB FLUB. Overruns curb vision for Fulton St. station *
PETE DONOHUE DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER 
26 May 2005
New York Daily News

THE MTA'S Fulton Street Transit Center - envisioned as an inspiring subway hub and a lower Manhattan beacon - has fallen a year behind schedule and is being scaled back to stay on budget. 

The completion date has been pushed to December 2008, agency documents show. 

The steel-and-glass dome that was to rise to a peak of 110 feet above street level from within the aboveground entrance hall - on Broadway between Fulton and John Sts. - will be significantly smaller, said Mysore Nagaraja, president of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's Capital Construction Co. 

The width of the underground Dey St. passageway to subway lines to the west will be 29 feet wide, not 40 feet. 

Plans had to be scaled back because projected costs, including real estate acquisitions, have soared beyond the $750 million budget, officials said. 

"What we are saying now is the new design is the economically elegant design," Nagaraja said. 

The MTA board will be asked next month to give approval for work on the final design to begin. 

The delay stems from the extensive environmental review process mandated by the federal government, Nagaraja said. 

That took longer than expected and slowed progress on necessary property acquisitions. 

The complex currently is a dingy, mazelike combination of several separate stations that serve 300,000 riders daily. Trains on the 2, 3, 4, 5, A, C, J, M and Z lines stop there. 

Plans call for a natural light-infused station, with sunlight reaching platforms, and easier connections, officials say. 

"It's going to be beautiful. It's going to change the landscape of lower Manhattan," Nagaraja promised. 

But Beverly Dolinksy, head of the New York City Transit Riders Council, was concerned. 

"I'm not happy that they are scaling it back and not happy about the delay, either," she said. "It's another delay in the rebuilding of downtown. This was supposed to be making a statement for present and future generations."


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## hkskyline

*New York City to End Subway Photo Ban*

* NYC Abandons Plan to Ban Subway Photography*
The Associated Press

NEW YORK A proposal to ban cameras in subways to prevent terrorism has been dropped by police and transit officials. The move comes a year after city transit officials came up with the idea to forbid photography, videotaping and filming in subway stations.

The New York Daily News reported in Sunday's editions that police and transit officials said a ban is not needed to secure the nation's largest mass transit system.

"Our officers will continue to investigate and intercede if necessary, if the activity _ photo-related or not _ is suspicious," police spokesman Paul Browne told the paper.

The proposal by NYC Transit, a division of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, had been criticized as too far-reaching by civil libertarians, photographers and some city officials.


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## nikko

thank god.

It would have sucked if they did ban it, no more great shots and it would ruin my hopes of photographing the subway when I visit NY. (I'm a bit of a railfan )

good news


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## mariusz_ny

On Sunday, service on the N line will be restored to Coney Island-Stillwell Avenue in Brooklyn and photo-ban has been canceled! kay:


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## reluminate

*New York Subway takes first step towards automation*

From the New York Times

*On L Train, Drivers Perform Solo, Without Conductors*

By SEWELL CHAN
Published: June 20, 2005

Conductors suddenly disappeared yesterday from the L line, but most subway riders did not seem to notice.

From now on, only one crew member, the train operator, will be on each L train during nights and on weekends. The change, which took effect just after midnight yesterday, is supposed to be the precursor to computerization of signals along the 10.2-mile route, which runs from Eighth Avenue in Manhattan to Rockaway Parkway in Brooklyn. The L train will still be staffed with two-person crews on weekdays.

Traditionally, each subway train has had both an operator and a conductor, who opens the doors and looks to make sure that the platform is clear before shutting them.

Along the L, which serves 5 stations in Manhattan and 19 in Brooklyn, New York City Transit has installed closed-circuit television cameras trained on the platform edges. Now the train operator can scan a bank of monitors while shutting the doors to verify that no one is caught in them before pulling out.

The transit agency printed signs and leaflets describing a "one-person train operation," as the conductorless arrangement is called, but most L riders seemed not to have seen them. "They should educate the passengers more so we'll know what's ahead of us," said Aneda Clarke, 57, a home health care aide who was riding home to Canarsie.

Upon being told about the change, riders had a range of views. "I very rarely even see a conductor on this train," said Craig A. Colbert, 43, who usually sits in the first car on his way to his job as a kitchen supervisor at a shelter in East Williamsburg.

Where transit officials see the march of progress, others have strong reservations. "Conductors serve more or less as security," said Anthony L. Gayle, 47, who works at Kingsbrook Jewish Medical Center in Brooklyn. "If you travel late at night, you want to know that if something happens, you have someone to call upon," he added, noting that conductors are easily accessible to passengers because they occupy the middle of the train.

While the rides seemed smooth and uneventful yesterday morning and early afternoon, the train operation was not yet truly "one-person." Because it was the first day, each operator was accompanied by a train-service supervisor, who sat nearby and made sure that the operator checked the television monitors, opened and closed the doors properly and kept the train on schedule.

The L line employs a new generation of cars, the R143, designed to be run by computers and without a conductor. The cars have automated public-address systems that announce each station in a bland voice.

The L line is the first to have its electromechanical signals replaced by a system that uses radio frequencies and microprocessors to communicate train movements, but the $288 million project is more than a year behind schedule and will probably not begin operating until the end of this year, at the earliest.

One supervisor said he understood that eliminating conductors was a precursor to a more technologically advanced system, but admitted he had doubts. "When you have a lot of customers on a train, you need extra hands in case something happens," the supervisor, Stephan C. Grant, said. "I'm still used to the old way."

At the route's eastern terminus, the Canarsie-Rockaway Parkway station, four representatives from the Transport Workers Union of America, Local 100, asked the operators' opinions of the new system. The union bitterly opposes one-person train operation and has argued that conductors are essential to evacuating passengers during emergencies.

"In my view, Transit's ultimate goal is to have driverless trains, and this is only the first step," said Daniel J. Small, a train operator and union representative.

Curtis Tate, another train operator and union representative, said: "We're not trying to stop technology, but we do have to take into account the safety of our riding public and of our members."

The transit agency, part of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, insists that the new system is safe because there is an emergency intercom in each car, and because the train cannot move until the doors are closed and locked. The operators on the L have received training and extensive instructions on what to do if they stop short of the monitors or overrun them.

Since 1996, one-person crews have operated a few other trains, mostly short ones that go short distances. For now, the L will be conductorless from midnight to 6 a.m. on weekdays and all day on weekends. At those times, trains will have 8 cars instead of the 10 used in peak periods.


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## FM 2258

Interesting, it would be cool if we could see pictures of this.


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## reluminate

FM 2258 said:


> Interesting, it would be cool if we could see pictures of this.


The trains don't look any different than the other new trains on the subway.


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## sfgadv02

Just to make sure, they do not have those 'NEXT STATION....' thing.


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## reluminate

sfgadv02 said:


> Just to make sure, they do not have those 'NEXT STATION....' thing.


They may not be up yet, but signs like those are being phased in.


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## sfgadv02

asohn said:


> They may not be up yet, but signs like those are being phased in.


Why didnt they did it whent he trains arrived?? I dont really think they need that IMO, they already have the 'The next stop is.....' on the top.

http://nycsubway.org/perl/show?3605


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## Rail Claimore

Awesome! It's about time NY caught up with the rest of the world's great cities in implementing modern technology into its transit system. I want to see LED/LCD displays in all the major stations soon giving countdowns to the next train arrival and other cool information.


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## Mighto

^meh, those displays are practically worthless in older systems like NY- most Londoners I know consider them a cruel joke. They would be especially worthless in a four-track system with constant track/service changes- the money (and there is very little) would be better spent on other items, like expanding the system and keeping what is in place functional.

NYC MTA is not supported by federal funding anywhere near the levels in the other first world large cities, and even some third world.


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## Mighto

sfgadv02 said:


> Just to make sure, they do not have those 'NEXT STATION....' thing.


There are 2 bulkhead displays (below) in all the newish R-143 cars which flash time, line/destination and next station- but I haven't seen the particular side wall one above yet.


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## Tubeman

Bloody Hell! New York's 20 years behind The Tube in that case...

Guards started disappearing in 1985, although I am proud to relate that I was one of the last Guards to work on The Tube in 1999 (Northern Line)


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## sfgadv02

Mighto said:


> There are 2 bulkhead displays (below) in all the newish R-143 cars which flash time, line/destination and next station- but I haven't seen the particular side wall one above yet.


Isnt that where I linked my photo to?!?!?


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## nick_taylor

Mighto said:


> ^meh, those displays are practically worthless in older systems like NY- most Londoners I know consider them a cruel joke. They would be especially worthless in a four-track system with constant track/service changes- the money (and there is very little) would be better spent on other items, like expanding the system and keeping what is in place functional.
> 
> NYC MTA is not supported by federal funding anywhere near the levels in the other first world large cities, and even some third world.


A cruel joke? They are actually very helpful and update with any problems on the line (also audio annoucements). I'm just suprised the New York Subway lags behind in introducing platform screen doors and electronic display systems which are really modern requirements for modern world cities. Not forgetting that the London Undgerground is some 41 years older than the New York Subway and yet manages to keep apace and the New York Subway also gets more money than the London Underground.


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## mad_nick

Tubeman said:


> Bloody Hell! New York's 20 years behind The Tube in that case...
> 
> Guards started disappearing in 1985, although I am proud to relate that I was one of the last Guards to work on The Tube in 1999 (Northern Line)


I don't really think it's a technological problem, it's more of a union problem, the transit workers union in NYC is very powerful. Would you wanna piss off a union that can essentially bring the city to a standstill?


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## Englishman

Don't bring up transport unions. London has problems too. 

http://www.amateurtransplants.com/ Click on video to see and hear the London underground song. it's hillarious.


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## Housing Critic3

Americans really like the stars and stripes. even in the subway the stars and stripes? Those trains go to the battlefield?


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## sfgadv02

Housing Critic3 said:


> Americans really like the stars and stripes. even in the subway the stars and stripes? Those trains go to the battlefield?


Um, ever since 9/11, there are flags everywhere....


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## sfgadv02

nick-taylor said:


> A cruel joke? They are actually very helpful and update with any problems on the line (also audio annoucements). I'm just suprised the New York Subway lags behind in introducing platform screen doors and electronic display systems which are really modern requirements for modern world cities. Not forgetting that the London Undgerground is some 41 years older than the New York Subway and yet manages to keep apace and the New York Subway also gets more money than the London Underground.


I dont know about London, but here in NYC, people would scratch those PSD in a matter of days. People tend to break new things and well PSD just wont do.


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## reluminate

Housing Critic3 said:


> Americans really like the stars and stripes. even in the subway the stars and stripes? Those trains go to the battlefield?


Hey, we're patriotic guys, give us a break.


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## reluminate

Tubeman said:


> Bloody Hell! New York's 20 years behind The Tube in that case...
> 
> Guards started disappearing in 1985, although I am proud to relate that I was one of the last Guards to work on The Tube in 1999 (Northern Line)


As mad_nick said, it's the unions that dictate what goes on. This plan has been around for many years. The union fought with the MTA for years until the MTA finally could come up with their system. The current automated system was ready to launch a few years ago, but the unions refused to ride the new trains, becuase conducterless (and soon driverless) trains would lose them their jobs. The unions are still very annoyed and are prohibiting the expansion of this program. In fact, the MTA has the technology to automate the entire system. However, they can't go forward with this system as its too great a risk to challenge the union.


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## Rail Claimore

They have electronic marquees in all the newly rebuilt (and some of the old) stations in Chicago, and none of it's vandalized like that. In fact, they plan to introduce interactive ATSS at all major Chicago el stations in the next few years, similar to what's used in the tube. If Chicago and London can do this... both cash-strapped as they are, why not NY?

Bringing the system to a state of good repair means modernizing the existing infrastructure they have. NY has done wonderfully well since the 1980's, but cleaning floors on just 1/3 of the stations and replacing a few signs is not modernization. I completely agree with Nick. Are New Yorkers so distrustful of their fellow citizens that they're luddites when it comes to stuff like this?


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## Rail Claimore

asohn said:


> As mad_nick said, it's the unions that dictate what goes on. This plan has been around for many years. The union fought with the MTA for years until the MTA finally could come up with their system. The current automated system was ready to launch a few years ago, but the unions refused to ride the new trains, becuase conducterless (and soon driverless) trains would lose them their jobs. The unions are still very annoyed and are prohibiting the expansion of this program. In fact, the MTA has the technology to automate the entire system. However, they can't go forward with this system as its too great a risk to challenge the union.


It's the same thing in Chicago, though not quite as bad. Someone needs to tell them to go screw themselves and jawbone the system... all the politicians are just bought out. The vast majority of unions are nothing but bureaucracies in disguise and have gone way beyond what their original purposes called for.


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## NewYork-wala

I believe there is also a computerized mapping system that tells you exactly where the trains are. So while before each train had to give about a distance of ten city block from the train in front of it, to avoid accidents, it resulted in fewer trains on the line and longer wait times. Now, the distance can be shortned since the exact position of all trains will be know at all times. This is what I heard on Discovery channel..


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## liat91

*New York MTA subway extensions*

So now that the west side stadium won't be getting state money, does this mean that the 2nd avenue subway and 7 line extension will actually be completed? (money going to them instead)


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## Third of a kind

no, but you know what if new york does get the 2012 games..having the games in queens may spark the city to finish off the ind second system portions in queens and the bronx and maybe a piece of the second ave subway


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## Roch5220

The only MTA extension/new line that makes sence is the 2nd ave line. All other money should be used to upgrade/repair the system, and add capacity/greater train frequency during peak and non-peak times.


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## CHI

Please elaborate on the 2nd avenue subway, and if possible, post a map of future extensions.


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## dynamicdezzy

What areas of Queens and Bronx were supposed to have been tapped into by rail? Would be great to see new subway lines in queens to alleviate congestion on the qns blvd lines. It would also be nice to see the existing ones renovated. The J train runs on some pretty $hitty tracks.


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## mariusz_ny

CHI said:


> Please elaborate on the 2nd avenue subway, and if possible, post a map of future extensions.


about Second Avenue Subway + map from official website


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## Third of a kind

dynamicdezzy said:


> What areas of Queens and Bronx were supposed to have been tapped into by rail? Would be great to see new subway lines in queens to alleviate congestion on the qns blvd lines. It would also be nice to see the existing ones renovated. The J train runs on some pretty $hitty tracks.


I'm not sure of the queens extension for the sas, but I know it was supposed to service northern queens.

but I do know about the bronx extension, from the alignment map It looks to Travel up Boston Rd. There were original plans for a subway up boston rd as part of the second system but they were never built because the sas wasn't built. (and if it is built it will most likely extend to co-op city)

on a side note I think it would be great if a boston rd had subway service because the drye 5 is just garbage, it travels just as slow as the 2 above 180th

hey what would you guys think if the 6 was extended to fully serve co-op city?


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## reluminate

*Cell Phone service coming to NYC Subway Stations*

From today's New York Times

More Convenience in Subway, or Just More Screech?
By SEWELL CHAN and RACHEL METZ
Published: August 28, 2005

Lily Li, a real estate broker, takes the bus instead of the subway so that she can use her cellphone to keep track of her 7-year-old son. Alonzo Munden, a retail worker, stands in line at a pay phone on the subway platform so he can tell his wife when he will arrive home. Yoram Silagy, a lawyer, sees the subway as a sanctuary from the irritating din of idle cellphone chatter.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority's decision to invite companies to install an underground wireless phone and data network, linking the airwaves of 277 stations to the world of the streets above, could profoundly alter the time-tested rhythms of the New York City subway system. Passengers like Ms. Li, Mr. Munden and Mr. Silagy, all Manhattan residents, could find their routines enhanced or disrupted - or both.

New Yorkers might do well to look at the experience of Washington, where underground subway stations have had cellphone service since 1993 under an exclusive arrangement with what is now Verizon Wireless.

The capital is far ahead of New York when it comes to wireless service underground. In the Washington subway, it is not uncommon to see lawyers and lobbyists talking on their cellphones and sending e-mail messages with their handheld digital devices, often at the same time.

The behavior of Washington's subway riders can seem baffling to visitors. "They're not conscientious," said Juanita Waters, a government worker from Philadelphia, who was on a business trip in Washington last week. "They don't realize they're not in their home or office environment. Students curse, use profanity. Business people are just oblivious to their surroundings. They're both just as bad."

Maria Coiro, who works in a call center for Pepco, an electrical utility, and lives in Arlington, Va., said cellphones made certain riders seem only more rude. "When the doors close so quickly and it's crowded, people push so hard to get in, and they shove you," she said. "Sometimes they're on their phones, too, and they just don't care."

For some, etiquette does set limits on cellphone use. Checking one's voice mail while waiting on the platform is perfectly acceptable, but loud conversation inside the car is frowned upon. "It's a little annoying," said Alec Stone, who lives in Silver Spring, Md., and works in public relations. "I try to block it out and concentrate on my reading."

In New York City, the lack of underground cellphone service has produced some unusual rituals.

Christie Van Kehrberg, of Astoria, Queens, works at a financial company in Manhattan. Most evenings, on her ride home, she sees riders suddenly reach for their cellphones as the N or W train emerges from the tunnel under the East River and onto the elevated tracks in western Queens.

"Six people in every car are announcing the fact that they're almost home," she said. "It's completely trivial conversation, but the fact that they can call means they will."

Even after the network is built - a process that could take years - maintaining a conversation while in the tunnel will still be impossible. The authority plans to set up service only in underground stations, citing the prohibitive cost of wiring the labyrinthine tangle of tunnels.

Still, a wireless network could allow some new ways for staying in touch. A rider might dial her home number while the train is moving, hit the call button while it comes to a stop and quickly tell her husband to, say, put the casserole in the oven - all before the train pulls away again. Another rider might call his roommate and hang up after one ring - a code signaling that he is almost home. And of course, friends trying to arrange an underground rendezvous will be able to find each other more easily.

Ms. Li, the real estate broker, said she would ride the subway more often. "Sometimes, I'm expecting an important phone call, and even though the bus is slower than the subway, I have to take the bus to get that call," she said.

Others also relish the idea of the subway station as a wireless hub. Morgan Barnard, a video editor who lives in Park Slope, Brooklyn, said he would happily pay for wireless Internet so that he could use his Sony PlayStation Portable, a video-game device that has a Web browser feature, underground.

"I'd probably be checking e-mail, maybe instant-messaging, maybe some gaming," said Mr. Barnard, who competes with other players online and is a member of Dodgeball, a wireless social-networking service. "People talking in the actual cars would be annoying, but people having access to cellphones on the platforms would be cool."

Others see only a nuisance in the authority's proposal. Mr. Silagy, the lawyer, said the subways were a unique, if noisy, public space. "It's one of the few places where you're not bothered by cellphones," he said. "On the street or on the buses, you hear people yapping away. You can't even read the newspaper."

Jennifier Stewart, who works for the League of American Theaters and Producers, said she did not believe the authority's claim that cellphones improved safety.

"It could impede a rescue," Ms. Stewart said. "If something were to happen down on the trains and a lot of people are on their phones, it could add to the confusion. People could potentially miss important announcements they're supposed to be listening to. They could potentially miss instructions from emergency personnel."

Eli M. Noam, a professor of finance and economics at Columbia Business School and the director of the Columbia Institute for Tele-Information, a research center, said cellphones could be only so annoying, because riding the subway is "an unpleasant enough experience" already.

"Half the people already seem to have something plugged into their ears," he said, citing the ubiquity of digital music players. "It's a way of tuning out of the environment. Cellphones are also a way of tuning out, and of being connected and making time count - which in New York is always an issue."


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## zergcerebrates

Its about time, America is so behind in these services. Hong Kong, and parts of Japan got it almost 10 yrs ago.


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## mrmoopt

Not to mention that HK, you can use your phone whilst the train is in the tunnel...

Whether 3-(2g) cdma will let you do that, I don;t know but most carriers whether 2g or 3g will have coverage in tunnels.

--------

For those who think i'm confused about 3/2g naming, I'm not. Hutchison has decided to roll all its mobile telco under one umbrella name of '3'. with 3g services (three in other countries) named 3-(3g), gsm/gprs as 3-(dualband) and cdma services 3-(cdma). Confusing eh?


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## Sinjin P.

the Philippines, the texting capital of the world


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## nick_taylor

Currently some 50-60% of the London Underground is accessible to mobiles. This will soon be 100% once the current project by Orange is finished.

Personally I don't like it as the deep level lines were a haven away from the immense mobile phone penetration above.


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## samsonyuen

It's good to have these services, but annoying too, when everyone will soon have a phone in their ear, and will be talking on them loudly.


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## Sinjin P.

Technology really changes lives!


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## sfgadv02

Well, I know that you can use your 3G phone now on the MTR. They are starting to advertise the service on TV.


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## Quente

I was in Paris last month and noticed that people were using there cellphones on several underground lines. I think it should be a common amenity on subways.


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## Tintin27

I think most Asian Subway/MRT/MTR systems have Cell phone coverage. Nothing new in ASIA. Japan and few other countries I think is having Wi-FI access on the trains as well.


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## hkskyline

Cell phone coverage also opens up a major security issue in today's terrorism-prone environment - remote-controlled bombs.


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## ChinaboyUSA

Some of the cell phone users are very annoying on the bus, how will they act on the Subway, NYC is a very tolerent city, but you can definately see or hear something very interesting on the subway once the wireless turns to be on underground.

But it is true that the safety is a big thing!

There are plenty of reasons to start the wireless service or not, but once it turns to be in NYC, it is a tough decision, not about NYC's metro sytem doesn't take the high-tech actually!


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## nick_taylor

Also where is the need for Wi-Fi on metro networks? Where does anyone have the time or space available to take out their laptop and start working? On commuter and inter-city rail lines where desks are offered - yes (infact this is being tested and rolled out along the London commuter lines and inter-city services), but I don't see the practical application in Wi-Fi on metro services where most journies are only a few minutes.

At the end of the day I think in the London Underground and now even on the New York Subway that the odd person would use their phone, but the majority would carry on with what they do at the moment, look up at the ceiling, talk to someone next to them or read the paper or book. That said quite a few trains now ban mobile phones in certain area and on some of the commuter trains I've used going in and out of London, phones can be used only in the buffer spaces which is a sensible idea that probably should be implemented with metro's.


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## Sinjin P.

great updates! :applause:


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## .affed

Not particulalrly fascinating since most European subway/metro systems already offer this service, as well as many Asian cities. The biggest server in Québec (Bell Canada) offers the service in the Montréal Métro (Telus, Fido, Rogers and Virgin Mobility don't have métro coverage yet).


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## 1822

actually its kind of shocking that cell phones cannot be used in subways in 2005.


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## hkskyline

I didn't see a single person use a cell phone on the Tokyo subway. Perhaps the Japanese want to preserve the quietness of their transit vehicles and not chatter away in loud conversations.


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## samsonyuen

London wants service in deep-level tunnels by, I believe, 2008 or 9?


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## nick_taylor

heirloom said:


> actually its kind of shocking that cell phones cannot be used in subways in 2005.


Well its easy to say that when Singapore has a smaller sized network compared to the likes of London, Moscow, Paris, New York, etc which have immense networks - coverage, logistical problems, compatability and funding are obstacles which do not affect smaller networks.

That said its only in deep level sections that mobile phone usage is a problem. I would say some 70% of the 415km London Underground is mobile-accessible and even then rarely do people use mobiles.

I personally think underground networks should be either totally mobile-free or one out of every six carriages could be mobile-zones. They are the last bastion in modern cities where you can go without being at home and free from constant chatter.


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## mad_nick

^ Even cut & cover has no service in NY, maybe the cut & cover lines are deeper in NY...
The only areas I know of where you can use a cell phone in the subway is the above ground areas. (about 40% of the system)


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## Bertez

Does Bombardier make these trains??


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## reluminate

KWEST said:


> *read's post* I stand by my statement. How is this news? These cars were out for like 6-8 month now or maybe even more.


The R160s haven't even gone into service yet. They wont even be done with testing for another few months. The cars on the L are the R143, and this post clearly outlines the R160's improvements compared to the R143, spefically focusing on the FIND display systems which are not in any cars yet, and won't be for at least another year.


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## reluminate

Bertez said:


> Does Bombardier make these trains??


Bombardier has manufactured cars for the NYC subway for years. Their last cars though were the R142s, with the last being delievered in 2003. All of the more recent cars have been built by Kawasaki.

The new R160s are split between Kawasaki (the current batch) and Alstom. The Alstom cars, if I remember correctly, are being built in Brazil, and have had many manufacturing defects. Some cars were accidentaly damaged by a large crane in the factory. When their first batch of cars underwent prelimeneray testing before even leaving the plant, there were numerous defects, including serious water leaks. The MTA wants to cancel their contract with Alstom.


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## Bertez

asohn, thanks for the info


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## Pavlo

Bloody hell, I just seen it on the 6 oclock news and they said they were being put to use in 2006. So it's a prototype? But I see people riding them.


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## reluminate

^ It was a demenstration for the press/public


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## Quente

KWEST said:


> *read's post* I stand by my statement. How is this news? These cars were out for like 6-8 month now or maybe even more.


KWEST - 
Here's an article about the new subway cars that will be appearing in tomorrow's New York Times. Perhaps you may want to reconsider your previous comments.


New York Times
November 30, 2005
New Subway Cars Promise All Kinds of Information

By SEWELL CHAN
Nicholas Malave, a senior at Pacific High School in Brooklyn, entered a subway car yesterday and let out a cry of delight. This is not something he normally does during his regular trips on the A and J lines.

But those older cars lack what the new R160 subway car has: a Flexible Information and Notice Display, or FIND, with a liquid crystal display screen like the ones in television or computer monitors. The FIND panel also will have light-emitting diodes that will constantly update information about the train's progress.

After each stop, the display will change to show the next 10 stops, along with stops farther along the line. The video screen can be used to show the route symbol (like the letter "N" or "Q") or advertising.

Mr. Malave was one of dozens of curious riders who attended an "open house" sponsored yesterday afternoon by New York City Transit to show off and receive feedback on a five-car test train, a prototype of the R160, the newest generation of subway cars.

Next summer, the test train will be put in use so that engineers and mechanics can conduct technical tests, see how the cars hold up and iron out any problems before the rest of the order - a $952 million contract for 660 cars, awarded in October 2002 - is completed by a joint venture of Kawasaki Rail Car and Alstom Transport.

The cars will be delivered starting in 2007. Although the agency has not decided yet, the new cars may be used on the N or Q lines, which currently use some of the oldest cars in the system.

The test train yesterday was fully functioning, but it was not available to ordinary riders trying to get home. It was parked for five hours at the Hoyt-Schermerhorn station in Downtown Brooklyn.

The R160 is 60 feet long and 85,200 pounds when empty. In comes in two versions: one with a train operator's cab at the end, which can seat 42, and one without the cab, which can seat 44. The R160 is almost identical to the R143, which has been in use since 2003 on the L line, except for the new display system.

Riders yesterday, told to focus on the FIND panel, were asked questions like, "Do you feel reassured that the train is going to your station?" and "How easy or hard is it to read the words and letters on the sign?"

But riders seemed to be paying less attention to the sign than the rest of the car itself. Some of them said they did not regularly take the Nos. 2, 4, 5 and 6 lines (which use R142 cars, similar in design to the R143) or the L line and so were not familiar with the latest design.

Asked to compare the new car with the F train that she normally rides, María Romero, 72, a retired nurse's aide from Gravesend, Brooklyn, said, "This is three times more advanced!" Jared M. Skolnick, 34, an Internet marketer, said he admired the bright fluorescent lights, since he often took photographs in the subway.

James V. Sears, the agency's senior director of marketing research, said the results of the surveys - along with comments from focus groups convened in 2003 - could be incorporated into the final design of the FIND panel.

Among the transit specialists who crowded the test car yesterday was Masamichi Udagawa of Antenna Design New York. He was partly responsible for the color of the seats on the R142 and future generations. Asked whether he missed the red, orange and yellow seats used in many cars built in the 1970's, he said: "They were good for disco, but not for everyday commuting."


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## Frungy

Hooray for zero defect Japanese rolling stock!


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## Rail Claimore

Hell yeah! Perhaps they can also program the displays to alternate back and forth between English and other languages such as Spanish and French. In Japan, all the LCD and LED displays alternate back and forth between Japanese and English.


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## reluminate

Rail Claimore said:


> Hell yeah! Perhaps they can also program the displays to alternate back and forth between English and other languages such as Spanish and French. In Japan, all the LCD and LED displays alternate back and forth between Japanese and English.


An English speaker cannot read Japanese. A French or Spanish speaker can read English. The station names, etc are language-independent really.


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## sfgadv02

Yea, I actually like the display screen, which means that these can be used on multiple lines, unlike the current R142 and R143, those are stuck permanently on a line until they replace the stripmaps. Lets just hope those people dont scratch on it...


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## Rail Claimore

asohn said:


> An English speaker cannot read Japanese. A French or Spanish speaker can read English. The station names, etc are language-independent really.


But the screens will be used for stuff besides station announcements and for general infomation purposes as well such as events or warnings. It's only an option that's perfectly exercisable with this new stuff, if they choose to do so.


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## hkskyline

Saturday December 3, 7:24 AM
*Judge OKs random police bag searches on NYC subway *

NEW YORK (Reuters) - A federal judge ruled on Friday it was constitutional for police to randomly search riders' bags on the New York City subway to deter a terrorist attack.

U.S. District Judge Richard Berman ruled the searches were an effective and appropriate means to fight terrorism.

"The need for implementing counter-terrorism measures is indisputable, pressing, on-going and evolving," Berman wrote.

In a statement, Mayor Michael Bloomberg praised the ruling, calling bag searches a "reasonable precaution" that police would continue to take.

Random bag searches began on July 22 after a second set of bomb attacks on London's transit system.

The New York Civil Liberties Union sued the city and Police Commissioner Ray Kelly shortly afterward, calling the policy of searching thousands of riders a day without any suspicion of wrongdoing unconstitutional. 

The Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution prohibits searches without probable cause.

Police had argued random searches were a crucial deterrent to a possible attack.


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## Quente

*What the Motorman Saw - an article about people being struck by trains in NYC*

At the risk of sounding morbid, I found this article to be quite interesting. The article talks about the impact of such events (which the MTA refers to as a 12-9) on the lives of subway personnel. A union spokesman estimates that there are 1 to 2 12-9's every week. Certainly makes the case for building subway stations with platform screen doors.



What the Motorman Saw
New York Times
December 4, 2005

By JAKE MOONEY
IT is the dark fear of anyone who has gazed down at the subway tracks, leaned out from a platform to search the distance for a pair of headlights, or felt a sharp underground breeze kick up at the crescendoing rumble of train wheels. A trip and fall, or a loss of balance, or a sudden jolt or push from behind ... and then a plunge, to the damp, grimy floor between the glistening rails.

Half submerged in New York's collective unconscious, alongside dirty bombs and dark-alley robberies, is the nightmare of somehow winding up in the path of an oncoming train. It is a fear that lingers unmentioned, then rears up into the daylight at times like last Sunday. The next day, front pages across town shouted these chilling facts: Richie Molina, 19, was charged with pushing his friend onto the elevated No. 7 tracks at the 52nd Street station in Sunnyside, Queens.

The victim, killed by an oncoming train, was Edison Guzman, 22, a bakery worker from nearby Richmond Hill. But there was another victim, say people who know these matters all too well, one who rated little mention in the news accounts. This victim was the motorman, the train operator. He saw Mr. Guzman fall in front of him, the articles said. He tried to stop the 200 tons behind him, but he could not.

The fear of just such an event, haunting riders' minds, is there for train operators, too. And more often than most riders know, the fear becomes a reality. Dave Katzman, a spokesman for Local 100 of the Transport Workers Union, said two other people were hit by trains that Sunday. And two days ago, a woman was struck by an F train at the East Broadway station in Chinatown.

As for the frequency of such events, Mr. Katzman said, "A ballpark figure might be one to two a week, with a larger number around the holidays."

Train operators haul their human cargo along the same lines day after day, week after week, watching for red and green signal lights and square numbered signs next to each platform, all the while scanning the tracks ahead of them, tracks they know by heart, for something or someone that does not belong.

"Imagine spending the whole day on that train," a motorman named William Martinez once said in a Bronx diner near the end of the D line, his route for several years. "It's an exercise in staying awake. I was telling somebody it's like watching the same movie 1,000 times, but having to watch for that one detail in it that's different every time."

But far worse than the boredom, the numbing sameness, is the jolt that can come out of nowhere, turning lives upside down in a split second.

For Mr. Martinez, it had come in Harlem in November 2002, when a woman standing with her husband on the platform at the 125th Street/St. Nicholas Avenue station abruptly started running toward the edge, then jumped. When he saw her legs flip up into the air before she disappeared under the train, he feared the worst, but somehow she survived. He got down on the tracks and helped lift her out from between the cars where she had ended up. Only later, in a meeting with two supervisors after he took his train out of service, did he feel tears on his face and realize that he could not stop shaking. Back at the control center, someone congratulated him: The delay in service was only 17 minutes.

The authorities did not release the names of the two-person crew on the train that struck Mr. Guzman last week, the train operator and conductor whose lives were changed forever. But based on the dozens of cases of people struck by subway trains each year - events known in transit parlance by the code 12-9 - it is easy to speculate on what their last week must have been like.

Minutes after the train grinds to a halt after a 12-9, it is the train operator's job to climb down, flashlight in hand, and inspect the tracks. The logic is that the operator is inevitably among the first people on the scene, and whoever is under the train could still be alive and either in need of help, bruised or bleeding, or inches from the perilous third rail.

Subway riders tend to think of death on the tracks as a matter of impact - a train striking a person, a quick, blunt force. In reality, what train crews often find is a scene of carnage, the result of a body being dragged under a train and left to the mercy of the hard rails and heavy machinery. These images, of crushed or severed heads, horribly twisted limbs, or the last throes of an agonizing death, are the ones that persist in operators' nightmares.

Stopping a train short at a speed of 30 miles an hour or faster, with steel wheels rolling on steel tracks worn smooth over the years, is next to impossible. But that fact does not ease the guilt that many train operators feel, the sense that somehow all the trauma could have been avoided. And often there is anger: Why did they pick my train?

DR. MATTHEW CLARKE knows these reactions well. He works for Central Medical Services of Westrock, an occupational therapy practice with several offices in New York that often treats train operators who have been involved in 12-9's. For just under two years, Dr. Clarke has been taking referrals from Local 100 and helping affected crew members to apply successfully for worker compensation, which in turn gets them additional time off for treatment. (New York City Transit, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority subsidiary that runs subways and city buses, is engaged in contract negotiations with the union and declined to comment for this article.)

Post-traumatic stress disorder from a 12-9 can last for months or even years, Dr. Clarke said, long after the debriefings and drug and alcohol tests following the accident are over.

"They're not sleeping, they're having nightmares; quite often they're having interpersonal relationship issues, because their spouses can't understand why it's taking them so long to get over it," he said. "It makes it harder when your family and friends don't understand why you're watching a movie and you break down crying - and you're a man, and the scene wasn't even that sad. But your emotions are so on edge."

Dr. Clarke's practice aims to gradually reintroduce affected workers to the subway system. At first, just being in a station and seeing a train go by can cause a panic attack. But in a process called desensitization, undertaken only after intensive psychotherapy, a therapist accompanies the patient first to a station, then onto the back or middle of a train, gradually moving in subsequent visits closer and closer to the front. The goal is to eventually spend a whole run looking out the train's front window.

At some point, most of these operators will go through retraining, return to work and resume carrying thousands of passengers a day. And like commuters on the platform in the days after a high-profile 12-9, they will do their best to block out the creeping fears.

"High school students think it's funny when a train is coming in, to try to fake jumping in front of a train," Dr. Clarke said. "So if a train operator puts a train into emergency for that, they're in trouble."

Still, erasing the past is impossible. "Among subway workers, among train operators and conductors, people that work on the tracks, the one incident during everybody's career that is life-altering is a 12-9," said Jimmy Willis, a former conductor and Transport Workers Union official. "After someone has a 12-9, those thoughts begin to crowd their awareness. There are people who are involved with a 12-9 who never get back on a train."

Mr. Willis, 51, worked for the transit system for 18 years. As a union representative, he rushed to the scenes of countless 12-9's, and he also coordinated the union's role in a peer-counseling program that it and New York City Transit had jointly conducted for several months after the Sept. 11 terror attack to allay on-the-job trauma.

But Mr. Willis, who now lives in Mesquite, Nev., and is a few signed papers and rubber stamps away from retirement, knows most about death on the subway tracks because of a night about 10 years ago, when he was a conductor on a Manhattan-bound R train pulling into the Union Street station in Park Slope, Brooklyn.

A man who Mr. Willis later learned had a serious physical illness stepped in front of his train that night, coming to rest behind a car that had passed over him. Mr. Willis did not see the impact firsthand - conductors are stationed at the middle of the train, where they make announcements, open and close the doors and ensure that no one is caught within them - but he was the one who called the line's control center to report what had happened. He was also the one who looked under the train with a flashlight when his motorman was too shaken.

Mr. Willis does not like to talk about exactly what he saw, but it was obvious to him that the man was not going to live. "He had some catastrophic injuries," he said. "His body was just broken."

WHAT stuck with Mr. Willis after that day was the sudden, wrenching trauma, and how train crews are usually unprepared for it. Police and firefighters are trained for violence and death, he said, and on some level expect it when they sign up for their jobs. For most subway workers, the harsh side of the job is not something they bargain for.

But then somebody jumps in front of a train, or is pushed, or gets sick and falls to the roadbed after drinking too much or missing breakfast. Most riders do not even notice, because subway workers have become so efficient at cleanup. First, trains are rerouted out of the area. Next, all the body parts are gathered. Finally, because the blood cannot be wiped up so easily, workers put down an absorbent layer of sand. If the scene is right, and the weather isn't too cold, the blood dries up. In time, the sand drifts away, carried off on the breezes that flow through the tunnels day and night.

But in the memories of those who were there, traces of blood remain. Even in Nevada, Mr. Willis still reads three New York newspapers a day on the Internet, and he notices whenever a 12-9 is disturbing enough to be reported. He thinks of the train crew.

"I put myself in that person's place," he said. "What is he or she thinking today?"

Maybe the crew member is thinking about what the person on the tracks was wearing, or some little move he or she made just before leaving the platform. Often, it is the look in her eyes - they always seem to make eye contact, searching for some human connection in their final seconds. Or maybe what lingers is the sense of knowing how easily it can all happen.

Dr. Clarke discusses these anguishing moments with many of his patients, the dozen or so he sees a year.

"You go to Great Adventure and you're standing on line for a roller coaster, and you can't get near the tracks because there's a barrier," he said. "You go down into the subway station, and all that's between you and the tracks is a yellow line. And subconsciously, we all realize how vulnerable we are. That yellow line is all that's there."


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## cincobarrio

I got searched the other day. Whoever doesn't like it can just leave the station.


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## Tubeman

Its pretty pointless, if you were a suicide bomber and had a bomb in your bag you'd either run off or detonate if faced with a bag search.


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## Tubeman

We call them 'One Unders' on London Underground, and the effect on the Drivers can be career-ending

The accidental ones are the worst; one of my drivers had a nasty one at Notting Hill Gate 2 years ago... The approach to the Westbound platform is around a tight but fast curve, as he rounded the curve there was a man peeing in the tunnel off the end of the platform. Because the train was rounding the curve the cab passed the man and so the driver thought he'd missed him, but the 'throw' of the car (i.e. the middle of each car gets closer to the tunnel wall than the ends because its rounding a curve) caught him and dragged him along. The driver stopped the train and got out to give the guy a bollocking for trespassing and giving him a fright, only to find his top half lying on the platform near his spine and his legs still under the train. uke:

Another incident with one of my Drivers was a suicide at Upminster Bridge where the jumper jumped very late and came through the windscreen at 40mph, showering the driver with glass and bits of head.

Its horrible, why not take an overdose? hno:


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## Quente

Tubeman - 

Part of my reason for posting this article was because someone had asked you if you'd ever had an experience of this sort.

The article quotes 1 to 2 "12-9's" a week (which seems high to me) - is that comparable to the number of "one unders" in London?

Regards - Kent


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## Tubeman

Quente said:


> Tubeman -
> 
> Part of my reason for posting this article was because someone had asked you if you'd ever had an experience of this sort.
> 
> The article quotes 1 to 2 "12-9's" a week (which seems high to me) - is that comparable to the number of "one unders" in London?
> 
> Regards - Kent


I never had one as a Driver and have thus far managed to avoid attending them as a manager, just luck really.

Weirdly some drivers seem to attract them... a guy I manage has had 9!!!

I'd say perhaps a third of drivers have had one, but my depot is quite junior (i.e. relatively new drivers). Of those who have had one, quite a few have had several... as I said, some people seem to attract them!

London's 'One Unders' seem to come in fits and starts, we're going through a relatively quiet spell with perhaps only one every one to two weeks network-wide. I've seen three in a week just on my line before. They tend to peak during economic recession and during the Winter, usually Christmas time when people get depressed.

Some stations are notorious, Mile End seems to attract a lot at the moment. Tooting Broadway used to be the worst as it had a mental hospital just outside, so people were forever walking out of the hospital and under a train.


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## bustero

man this is morbid. why don't the train administrations do something like making platform screens mandatory (assuming they are not doing this?) , is the cost of these screens very high? of course I'm assuming the screens are effective in stopping most if not all of this.


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## Andrew

I was thinking this but I wonder if the age of the London Underground and New York subway has anything o do with them not being installed, does this make it more difficult? more costly? Is it because many of the platforms aren't straight? Surely when this kind of incident happens so often there should be a commitment to upgrade the stations no matter what the cost. Can you give us some reasons why platform doors haven't been installed tubeman? Or are there plans to?


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## hkskyline

It's more a public relations tool to assure passengers that something is being done, albeit it might not be effective.


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## sfgadv02

Yes, some of the stations in NYC arent straight, and NYC has 468 stations, so you can just imagine how much it will cost. Also, the company that runs the system are cheap bastards and the "Second Avenue Line" is still not finish, which was suppose to be finish 30 years ago or so. Another problem is the vandalism, imagine cleaning out all the grafitti/scratchfitti.


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## Tubeman

Andrew said:


> I was thinking this but I wonder if the age of the London Underground and New York subway has anything o do with them not being installed, does this make it more difficult? more costly? Is it because many of the platforms aren't straight? Surely when this kind of incident happens so often there should be a commitment to upgrade the stations no matter what the cost. Can you give us some reasons why platform doors haven't been installed tubeman? Or are there plans to?


There has obviously been a Risk Assessment and platform edge doors have been deemed not worth the expense, as I'm not aware of any programme for their universal introduction.

If every tunnel section station got PEDs the 'jumpers' would simply find the nearest open-section station; its not as if you whimsically make your mind up to top yourself; its premeditated.

I suppose its a bit like banning paracetamol to prevent people overdosing... excessive!


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## Rail Claimore

I'd imagine Tokyo gets several a day given Japan's propensity for suicide. Anytime a train is delayed at a station (which is practically never), one can only guess that a jumper is the reason.

I hate it when people do this as a means of suicide, but what's even worse are the ones that are accidental, idiots who have no concept of self-preservation. When a multi-ton vehicle moving at 30 mph is pulling to a station, getting infront of that thing or too close to it is asking for trouble.

Seriously though, if these people are desparate to end their lives in a subway, why not just jump on the third rail?


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## sfgadv02

...but he was pushed onto the track.


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## Quente

Tubeman said:


> Weirdly some drivers seem to attract them... a guy I manage has had 9!!!


Given his record number of one unders, is this guy still driving a train? Seems like going through that experience once would be enough to encourage anyone to transfer to another position.

Does London Underground offer driver's counseling?

Kent


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## nikko

Quente said:


> Often, it is the look in her eyes - they always seem to make eye contact, searching for some human connection in their final seconds. Or maybe what lingers is the sense of knowing how easily it can all happen.


Sorry to add to the morbidity, but train operators are usually taught in driver ed. to close their eyes as some people have been know to even smile at the driver in those final few seconds. freaky.


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## Frungy

Most subways in Tokyo don't have a third rail. And platform doors aren't viable in some places for a few reasons-
The platforms are already quite narrow, and putting platform doors will only worsen platform congestion.
The headways are already at 90 seconds, and putting platform doors will only worsen the train dwell time, delaying the system, making congestion worse, increasing the dwell time, and so on.
If you're going to commit suicide, a little wall in front of you isn't going to stop you.

When there's a delay caused by someone falling on the tracks, it flashes on all the information boards in the Tokyo area, I guess to warn commuters of delays.

The Odakyu limited express trains have the driver cabin on a 2nd floor, so that people in the front car can look out the window in front of them. I heard that if the driver sees a potential suicide attempt in front of him, he can make the glass opaque so it won't significantly traumatize the passengers.


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## Grey Towers

I understand the most common condition of a body in such cases is that the torso ends up twisted around several times from the friction between the immobile platform and mobile train.


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## bustero

What would be the ratio of suicide cases to accidents and pushovers for the one to every two /three weeks. If it's very high then the case versus platform screens as a mitigator for these incidents will not be effective. BUT if more than half the incidents are people getting pushed over or accidents of some sort then the screens would make sense. I think it makes more sense when the platform is narrow as there's a tendency to get accidentally pushed if the platform gets really crowded. I understand that there is a cost / benefit equation to this in terms of lives and budgets. Am just curious where this is at?


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## Tubeman

Quente said:


> Given his record number of one unders, is this guy still driving a train? Seems like going through that experience once would be enough to encourage anyone to transfer to another position.
> 
> Does London Underground offer driver's counseling?
> 
> Kent


Oh yes, with a smile. We call him 'The Angel of Death', he doesn't give a shit really... which is the right attitude to have otherwise it would destroy you. Its not your fault someone jumped under your train, its theirs, although some drivers take it very personally and feel like they've killed someone.

Everyone gets counselling if they want it and if their doctor keeps signing them off, 9 months off work on full pay. I'd say a month is typical, although a lot of drivers like to come back after only a day or two so that its less of a drama when they go back 'on the front'.


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## Tubeman

nikko said:


> Sorry to add to the morbidity, but train operators are usually taught in driver ed. to close their eyes as some people have been know to even smile at the driver in those final few seconds. freaky.


There's no training pertaining to 'One Unders'... its not mentioned.

All you're told to do is to raise the alarm immediately and try to get the Traction Current turned off.

People 'pretend' to jump under your train all the time. When its a kid or a bunch of lads on a Friday night it doesn't faze you as you know they're cocking about, but I've had instances where a lone person has been stood right on the edge of the platform staring at me, and you do think "are they about to jump?".

Drivers do say that people are less likely to jump if you have your cab light on, as they don't want to see the driver, but how they'd be able to interview dead people to ascertain that they jumped because the cab light _wasn't_ on I don't know :laugh:


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## hkmember

In Hong Kong, Taiwan, mainland China, Singapore, Malaysia and Japan there are emergency stop buttons all over the platform

In Japan there are some stations with stereo cameras that detect track trespassing


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## JohnnyMass

it wont be effective...they would have to search everyone and still i have some doubts.


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## mad_nick

hkskyline said:


> It's more a public relations tool to assure passengers that something is being done, albeit it might not be effective.


Very true, it's all politics, there's really not much that can be done short of searching every single passenger *before* they enter any of the 468 stations in the system that would be effective.


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## Nicux

It's useless, there'd be too many people to check bags and backpacks of!

Can you imagine the chaos this could create during rush hours?

Furthermore, I think policemen would be located only at the very main stations.. and who knows where terrorists get the train?


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## hkskyline

*New York Subway Builders Find 200 Year-Old Wall*

*New York subway builders find 200-yr-old wall *

NEW YORK, Dec 8 (Reuters) - Builders working on a new subway station at the southern tip of Manhattan have found the remains of a stone wall thought to be part of a fort that protected the city in the late 17th century. 

New York City authorities said on Thursday the 40-foot (12-metre) section of wall had been found at a depth of around 10 feet (3 metres) in Battery Park, a green area that looks out on New York harbor and the Statue of Liberty. 

"This wall most likely is a portion of the gun batteries that once protected the city in the late 17th and 18th centuries and gave rise to the modern park name," said Robert Tierney, chairman of the Landmarks Preservation Commission. 

He said the city and the Metropolitan Transportation Authority would work together to preserve the remains, which were described as "an important remnant of the history of New York City." 

Among the artifacts found in the area -- where a series of forts were built between 1625 and 1780 -- was a 1744 George II half penny in very good condition, city authorities said in a statement. 

The wall was found during construction work on the new South Ferry Station underneath the park. 

"Because this project was within a historically significant area, archaeologists considered it likely that archaeological resources would be found, although no one guessed that such a large portion of the Battery could have survived," the statement said.


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## Brett

Neat!


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## mopc

They´re building a new Subway station in Manhattan? Must be the first in what, 40 years?


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## mopc

468 stations counting transfer stations as one or one for each line? Any way this is the mothership of all subways and metros in the world!


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## Frungy

Whoa, that is insane. Wonder if there's anything like that for Tokyo...


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## mr_storms

that is very impressive. Im amazing what people are been able to do with Google maps (my favorite is free wifi locator). Thats not a hack though, actually very legal and google like mods like this that use their software.


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## Justme

hehe, doesn't always work, I set two different places and it suggested the quickest way was to walk for 49hours, I'll try and post a screenshot


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## reluminate

Great stats. How about posting similar stats of "rival" subways?


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## Rene Nunez

ohlala.. good to know thanks


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## Bertez

Nice


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## Nick

Frungy said:


> Whoa, that is insane. Wonder if there's anything like that for Tokyo...


Yep.

There's the Japan traffic guide.It covers all subways,train routes,bus and plane routes from the top of the country to the botton.It operates on two websites.One for Mobile phones and the other for computers.It even tells you how long it will take walking between stations if you have to transfer.

Here's the computer version

http://www.jorudan.co.jp/english/norikae/


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## tokyoz_finest

Frungy said:


> Whoa, that is insane. Wonder if there's anything like that for Tokyo...


Similar services have been available since several years ago...


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## Palal

Walking times aren't very well modeled.


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## Metropolitan

That system exists since at least a decade in Paris. I remember we used to have that kind of little route planner thing in subway stations when I was a kid, I was playing with them trying to find the route needing the most interconnections or the longest routes.

You can have access to Paris route planner, via internet, in english, on RATP's official website :
Paris public transport route planner


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## chiccoplease

Some newspapers have been reporting about this route planner lately and I don't understand why. In Bavaria (biggest German state) there has been a much more advanced system for years now. Check it out:
http://195.30.232.155/bay/index_en.htm


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## nikko

South-East Queensland has had that for train/ferry/bus for many years now.

Its really handy.


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## Frungy

*New York Transit on strike*

So the labor union failed to negotiate an extension of their contract with the city... so they went on strike. All subways and buses shut down, and Metro-North commuter rail may follow suit.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/12/20/nyc.transit/index.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/20/n...&en=76117d48a59c9e0c&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Do you sympathize with them, or think they are selfish and holding the city hostage? Living in Japan, I'm spoiled by impeccable transit service... not just efficiency, but the staff is incredibly helpful and polite. Unlike New York service, where it doesn't seem like bus and train drivers even know what a schedule is, the token vendors are too busy chatting on phones to actually sell you tokens, and the vending machines are perpetually broken.


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## mopc

Yeah, just read it from local media. Frist strike since 1980, huh? We have subway strikes in São Paulo every year. How much does a subway driver make?


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## DonQui

first off, you are rattling stereotypes in the last sentence. I have not experienced those problems to the degree that you are suggesting. just about the same as any mediocre (when compared to Japan) Western transit system.

that being said, I am pissed beyond belief. They are holding the city hostage selfishly. The people that will be hurt the hardest will be those that do not have cushy union jobs to sit their fat asses on.

They need to be made to pay severly for their insolence.


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## spyguy

Implement some of those Japanese robots you've got there to operate all trains.


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## Frungy

I'm rattling personal experiences. Yes, there were some exceptions where I got good service, but I'd say 3/4 of all token vending machines I've encountered were broken, many conductors don't even bother saying what the next station is or what side the doors will open on, and all too often no bus arrives for half an hour, then 4 in a row come along (in light traffic).

I think I read in a CNN article that the transit workers make from 47-55k per year. Yeah, the cost of living in New York is high but that's pretty damn nice. They also want to be able to collect full pensions if they retire at age 55 (the MTA wants to raise it to 62), and the MTA wants workers to pay 6 percent of their salary for the first 10 years of work towards their pensions (currently 2 percent).


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## Rene Nunez

I am so screwed........


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## luv2bebrown

damn this is a shame. up to $400 million a day lost! i hope the situation is resolved QUICKLY.

i read in an article that MTA workers get no respect... is this true?


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## lakerdar123

they get plenty of respect. they get paid 30 dollars an hour. thats more than the teachers plus mta workers don't have college degrees and teachers do. didnt really bother me much today. go to my job with my bike. it's gonna continue like this for ten days i think. they fucked up the holiday season.

they're probably going to loose with the strike. they don't have the support of the people. everybody hates them now. i think about 1000 jobs per hour are lost because of them. they're being really selfish. the city doesn't have enough money for them and yet they want more.


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## sfgadv02

They are just being greedy IMO, how many of us actually get 8% raise annaully?


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## lakerdar123

ur lucky to get anything above 2%.


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## DonQui

They need to realize that their job can be done by practically anyone. As such, be happy that your uneducated *ss gets such a high salary and do your f*cking job!


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## George_Castanza

*I was lying down this morning and...*

just thinking the same thing. With outsourcing and no borders
anymore + capitalist a-ethical-nesstos (yet again still more) 
New Ways (as in "methods to not 'get it'" [where 'it' is how to
behave like American patriots and church-goers, "if that helps
you"]) these poor formerly employed (in a very hard city to find 
work) people are -- it seems clear -- going to be replaced by
people willing and able to do the job at $0.50 on the dollar --
and a bonus! --> The noobies doubtless won't bother with ceasing
forward momentum (or tilting at the windmills of) those frustrating
track fires. cool. 

Language is obviously not going to be an issue either. Big mistake,
union guys; and I'm a union guy.

:grouphug: <-- actual photograph of an AFL-CIO group at a
union meeting in 1966, Milwaukee, WI. photo: Raeutors


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## Ning

OMG America is turning into France


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## DonQui

Ning said:


> OMG America is turning into France


NIET!

:rant:


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## salvius

I don't get it... Why do people think only their jobs are important and everyone else is a lazy nobody? Why does everyone protest when a certain demographic wants higher wages; or, when people protest against a contract which would make them in a worse off position than they have been in so far?


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## DonQui

salvius said:


> I don't get it... Why do people think only their jobs are important and everyone else is a lazy nobody? Why does everyone protest when a certain demographic wants higher wages; or, when people protest against a contract which would make them in a worse off position than they have been in so far?


Because they are being selfish.

Hurting people that are worse off than they are (nannies, immigrant workers in restaurants who have no other method of transportation besides public transit).

And already get rewarded enough

Costing the city millions at a time when we are struggling to get back to before 9/11.

I know this i s a gross simplification, but in my mind, there was no need to pull this stunt. I can understand pulling it if they were being mistreated. But they are not. They have plum union jobs and are milking the city for what its worth.


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## spyguy

Doesn't the MTA have like a $1 billion surplus this year? Give me some of that money!


----------



## DonQui

spyguy999 said:


> Doesn't the MTA have like a $1 billion surplus this year? Give me some of that money!


The system needs refurbishing. They don't deserve what they are clamoring, so no. The only reason we have not had a strike in 25 years is because, unless I am mistaken, hard bargainers the first time. 

We went 11 days last time, we can do the same this time. Except they need to pay. Dearly.


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## bagel

I say more power to the strikers. There is a one blllion dollar surplus and while the system needs refurbishment, I think this is not just for the MTA workers. This is for labor in general. I too am affected by the strike, but I support the strikers... it seems that the only reason why people are against the strikers are because they themselves do not know that they (the people who think striking is bad) too should fight for better wages themselves. We need to protect labor in this country. Everyone, not just the MTA workers, deserve better pensions and better wages across the board. Too often employers in all fields take their workers for granted because they feel someone can do the job for cheaper.


----------



## DonQui

Unions have become too powerful. They need to be curbed. And anything that harms the city this much should be made illegal. Oh wait, it already IS illegal for them to strike in this instance. :doh:


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## DonQui

dble post


----------



## dougmatic

boybaha said:


> I say more power to the strikers. There is a one blllion dollar surplus and while the system needs refurbishment, I think this is not just for the MTA workers. This is for labor in general. I too am affected by the strike, but I support the strikers... it seems that the only reason why people are against the strikers are because they themselves do not know that they (the people who think striking is bad) too should fight for better wages themselves. We need to protect labor in this country. Everyone, not just the MTA workers, deserve better pensions and better wages across the board. Too often employers in all fields take their workers for granted because they feel someone can do the job for cheaper.


I agree. There are 30,000 people going on strike, most of them aren't the ones with "cushy union jobs," many of them are ordinary people fighting for better wages and standard of living. The union is there to protect those interests. Sure their demands are ridiculous (8% raises) but instead of fining and causing even more trouble I think the city should work at compromise.


----------



## Talbot

I think it is horrible, especially in a city where a lot of people depend on public transportation. And to make it worse during the holiday season when people are shopping and trying to get to work to make some extra money for the holidays.

Let's hope it ends soon, so we don't see worse consequences of this.


----------



## Frungy

1 billion dollar surplus? Where are you getting this from? I thought the MTA was subsidized because public transit in the US never makes a profit...


----------



## mr_storms

^^No mta had a surplus this year but thats including taxes and subsidies, not just fares. Very few public transporation system can make a profit with just fares.


----------



## WillyWick

Why r u guys not pointing your fingers to the government? This pension issue is all around america. And in a democracy, the government calls the protest illegal? It causes inconvenience to millions, but among those are just buried with day to day survival and let issues go by. I support the strike.


----------



## DonQui

WillyWick said:


> Why r u guys not pointing your fingers to the government? This pension issue is all around america. And in a democracy, the government calls the protest illegal? It causes inconvenience to millions, but among those are just buried with day to day survival and let issues go by. I support the strike.


It is not just inconvenience. Why can't people realize this. This is not some little toy company that people are demonstrating against, it is a system that is the only reason why this city continues to function.

They are being selfish for wrecking it, and deserve their their $1 million a day fine.

Oh, and btw, the international arm of the TWU has declared the strike, you guessed it, UNAUTHORIZED! :rock:


----------



## bohio

The whole MTA organization is losing the respect of the public. Union workers and white-collar staff seems to be more concerned with their pockets than with the service they provide. At the end the riders will pay the price, no doubt about it.


----------



## reluminate

^ Exactly.

The transit workers are being pretty selfish. They currently have fairly good wages and benefits, and are demanding selfish increases. They're really abusing their positions and it doesn't seem quite so fair to me.


----------



## spyguy

asohn said:


> They're really abusing their positions and it doesn't seem quite so fair to me.



If they don't, then the top executives will :hahaha:


----------



## sfgadv02

Exactly, they are just selfish little people. Also, from what I have been hearing the union only has $3.6 million in their bank, and with $1 million fine per day, it would be pretty fast till they go bankrupt. Also, according to some polls, 65% of New Yorkers says that the workers have good wages and then they have the nerve to complain. The $1 billion surplus isnt anything really, not when you are $2 billion in debt. The president of the TWU finally realized that he is wrong [and stupid] and is now toning down his voice.


----------



## carpanatomy

mr_storms said:


> ^^No mta had a surplus this year but thats including taxes and subsidies, not just fares. Very few public transporation system can make a profit with just fares.


maybe Asian cities can make profit......

Tokyo, Seoul, Hong Kong, Taipei, Shanghai, Beijing, etc.......


----------



## mad_nick

boybaha said:


> I say more power to the strikers. There is a one blllion dollar surplus and while the system needs refurbishment, I think this is not just for the MTA workers. This is for labor in general. I too am affected by the strike, but I support the strikers... it seems that the only reason why people are against the strikers are because they themselves do not know that they (the people who think striking is bad) too should fight for better wages themselves. We need to protect labor in this country. Everyone, not just the MTA workers, deserve better pensions and better wages across the board. Too often employers in all fields take their workers for granted because they feel someone can do the job for cheaper.


Agreed, instead of complaining that unionized transit workers get more money than others in the working class, why not organize and demand better pay for other workers?



DonQui said:


> Unions have become too powerful. They need to be curbed.


That's a myth propagated by the ones really in charge, the corporations. Unions have very little power in this country, most people aren't unionized, many people don't get any health care benefits, pensions, etc. because the corporations want to exploit the people for as little money as possible. Fight for all the people to get decent wages and benefits like the transit workers instead of complaining that the transit workers earn more than other working class people.


----------



## DonQui

mad_nick said:


> Agreed, instead of complaining that unionized transit workers get more money than others in the working class, why organize and demand better pay for other workers?
> 
> 
> That's a myth propagated by the ones really in charge, the corporations. Unions have very little power in this country, most people aren't unionized, many people don't get any health care benefits, pensions, etc. because the corporations want to exploit the people for as little money as possible. Fight for all the people to get decent wages and benefits like the transit workers instead of complaining that the transit workers earn more than other working class people.


Myth? Are we living in the same city with the same strike?

:crazy:


----------



## mad_nick

^ The transit union has alot of power, but what you said was that unions in general have too much power, which is a myth, they have hardly any power at all.


----------



## DonQui

What I see in teacher's unions are largely white teachers who do not give a crap about their minority students and are there simply to collect a paycheck. They milk the system and hurt the minority communities and leave the decent hard working teachers with little incentive to work hard. Why do so, when fatty in Room 301 is just acting as a babysitter. Look at how they fought tooth and nail against Bloomberg's reforms. While we still need to wait to see if his reforms will last in efficacy, at least now, the Teacher's Union was flat out wrong.

As much as I respect firefighters, the firefighter's unions after 9/11 were disgusting. Milking the death of their coworkeres for pay raises. Unbelievable. Police unions to a certain extent as well.

Unions have outlived their usefulness.


----------



## mad_nick

^ Unions have outlived their usefulness?
The corporations have run amok in this country, they're exploiting the workers, and in most cases, there are no unions to counterbalance the corporations, and in many cases, workers are prohibited from organizing.


----------



## DonQui

mad_nick said:


> ^ Unions have outlived their usefulness?
> The corporations have run amok in this country, they're exploiting the workers, and in most cases, there are no unions to counterbalance the corporations, and in many cases, workers are prohibited from organizing.


1) First, I was commenting on public unions. 

2) Well, in many respects, tough shit. It is called personal responsibility. My dad was a factory worker (mind you, because RACIST Italian-Irish construction unions denied him employment), went to college, and is now a professional. You do not get a high paying job because you want one, you get one because you DESERVE one.


----------



## brooklynprospect

edit.


----------



## MachuPichu

DonQui said:


> What I see in teacher's unions are largely white teachers who do not give a crap about their minority students and are there simply to collect a paycheck. They milk the system and hurt the minority communities and leave the decent hard working teachers with little incentive to work hard. Why do so, when fatty in Room 301 is just acting as a babysitter. Look at how they fought tooth and nail against Bloomberg's reforms. While we still need to wait to see if his reforms will last in efficacy, at least now, the Teacher's Union was flat out wrong.
> 
> As much as I respect firefighters, the firefighter's unions after 9/11 were disgusting. Milking the death of their coworkeres for pay raises. Unbelievable. Police unions to a certain extent as well.
> 
> Unions have outlived their usefulness.


Boy..oh...boy... the $15 cab fares are killing my weekly budget. How do I get to places inside the city? I think the MTA will end the strike sooner than later. Because if they dont, corporations might seriously think of moving their work force outside of NY city...and as someone rightly pointed out...the MTA is wreaking havoc on the spirit of the city. The workers should be paid a variable bonus based on their performance and the profiuts the company makes. it is better to have a profit sharing plan rather than dole out assured freebies. This is why Unions get organized in the first place...assured benefits. Why should it be assured?

I ended up sharing my cab ride with a girl from Queens. She told me that it took her 5 f^%$king hours to get to Manhattan. Menahwile, 5th Avenue and Madison Avenue are closed for traffic because the rich people didnt want their poodles run over. I think Bloomberg needs to bring this to a close. A walk across brooklyn Bridge while it sounds very American, is hardly practical when done over 10 days and twice a day. 

Looking forward to the strike fizzing out tomorrow

MP.


----------



## MachuPichu

DonQui said:


> What I see in teacher's unions are largely white teachers who do not give a crap about their minority students and are there simply to collect a paycheck. They milk the system and hurt the minority communities and leave the decent hard working teachers with little incentive to work hard. Why do so, when fatty in Room 301 is just acting as a babysitter. Look at how they fought tooth and nail against Bloomberg's reforms. While we still need to wait to see if his reforms will last in efficacy, at least now, the Teacher's Union was flat out wrong.
> 
> As much as I respect firefighters, the firefighter's unions after 9/11 were disgusting. Milking the death of their coworkeres for pay raises. Unbelievable. Police unions to a certain extent as well.
> 
> Unions have outlived their usefulness.


Boy..oh...boy... the $15 cab fares are killing my weekly budget. How do I get to places inside the city? I think the MTA will end the strike sooner than later. Because if they dont, corporations might seriously think of moving their work force outside of NY city...and as someone rightly pointed out...the MTA is wreaking havoc on the spirit of the city. The workers should be paid a variable bonus based on their performance and the profiuts the company makes. it is better to have a profit sharing plan rather than dole out assured freebies. This is why Unions get organized in the first place...assured benefits. Why should it be assured?

I ended up sharing my cab ride with a girl from Queens. She told me that it took her 5 f^%$king hours to get to Manhattan. Menahwile, 5th Avenue and Madison Avenue are closed for traffic because the rich people didnt want their poodles run over. I think Bloomberg needs to bring this to a close. A walk across brooklyn Bridge while it sounds very American, is hardly practical when done over 10 days and twice a day. 

Looking forward to the strike fizzing out tomorrow

MP.


----------



## brooklynprospect

I live in Manhattan, and was taking the train with a friend of mine one Friday night last summer, a bit drunk but not too bad, when an MTA employee cleaning the floor in a station came up to me and literally asked me how much money I thought she made. I was polite enough to throw my little piece of trash directly into her bag rather than on the floor, so perhaps she felt comfortable with me?

Anyway, I guessed $35,000 a year. She gave me this disappointed look. My friend (from mainland China, working as an analyst on Wall Street) suggested $45,000 a year. Well she smiled and said that actually she made *$60,000 a year* for a 40 hour work week, and with overtime (1.5x pay after the first 40 hours) could make *$80,000*. She was quite young, and seemed like she just got the job. Anyway, *all she did was sweep the floors and other menial tasks like that*. She wasn't a train conductor or any kind of engineer. And she wasn't even sweeping very well, for god's sake.

All of a sudden, it clicked for me why NYC spends billions and billions of dollars(enough to build entirely new systems in most parts of the world) on a system which is the most rundown I've seen anywhere (and I've been to about 35 countries and lots of transit systems).

**** the union. They all deserve to be fired. They get paid far far more than the going rate for their skill-levels, and they don't even do a good job. Rude, slow... just look at overall spending, and the state of the system. There's a big disconnect between the two. European or Japanese workers might also get good salaries, but at least they're efficient.

If the city government had any real power, they'd destroy this cancer on the city.


----------



## DonQui

brooklynprospect said:


> I live in Manhattan, and was taking the train with a friend of mine one Friday night last summer, a bit drunk but not too bad, when an MTA employee cleaning the floor in a station came up to me and literally asked me how much money I thought she made. I was polite enough to throw my little piece of trash directly into her bag rather than on the floor, so perhaps she felt comfortable with me?
> 
> Anyway, I guessed $35,000 a year. She gave me this disappointed look. My friend (from mainland China, working as an analyst on Wall Street) suggested $45,000 a year. Well she smiled and said that actually she made *$60,000 a year* for a 40 hour work week, and with overtime (1.5x pay after the first 40 hours) could make *$80,000*. She was quite young, and seemed like she just got the job. Anyway, *all she did was sweep the floors and other menial tasks like that*. She wasn't a train conductor or any kind of engineer. And she wasn't even sweeping very well, for god's sake.
> 
> All of a sudden, it clicked for me why NYC spends billions and billions of dollars(enough to build entirely new systems in most parts of the world) on a system which is the most rundown I've seen anywhere (and I've been to about 35 countries and lots of transit systems).
> 
> **** the union. They all deserve to be fired. They get paid far far more than the going rate for their skill-levels, and they don't even do a good job. Rude, slow... just look at overall spending, and the state of the system. There's a big disconnect between the two. European or Japanese workers might also get good salaries, but at least they're efficient.
> 
> If the city government had any real power, they'd destroy this cancer on the city.


:master:


----------



## DonQui

My mom went to college, went to professional school, and STILL makes less than these f*ckers.

To hell with them. I want what Reagan did to happend. Fire all the f*ckers just like the airport controllers got fired, make them re-apply for their jobs, and dock their pay until the damage they caused the city is repaid, and after that, refuse to increase their pay.


----------



## DonQui

They do a shit job. "oh we get mistreated." That I find detestable when people actually have the chutzpah to spit at conductors when they are pissed, but gimme a frickin' break. 

DOWN WITH THE UNIONS!


----------



## Third of a kind

I agree, my mother is in this union but fortunately she works in paratransit. There should not be any union in the public sector. motherfuckers think its nimbysm as for reasons why things like the rest of the ind 2nd system was never built..nope your unions


on a side note I know I wasn't the only one who saw this coming after the *same union had a damn near 2 month bus strike* in westchester county and they were calling it the prelude to december.


----------



## Third of a kind

brooklynprospect said:


> I live in Manhattan, and was taking the train with a friend of mine one Friday night last summer, a bit drunk but not too bad, when an MTA employee cleaning the floor in a station came up to me and literally asked me how much money I thought she made. I was polite enough to throw my little piece of trash directly into her bag rather than on the floor, so perhaps she felt comfortable with me?
> 
> Anyway, I guessed $35,000 a year. She gave me this disappointed look. My friend (from mainland China, working as an analyst on Wall Street) suggested $45,000 a year. Well she smiled and said that actually she made *$60,000 a year* for a 40 hour work week, and with overtime (1.5x pay after the first 40 hours) could make *$80,000*. She was quite young, and seemed like she just got the job. Anyway, *all she did was sweep the floors and other menial tasks like that*. She wasn't a train conductor or any kind of engineer. And she wasn't even sweeping very well, for god's sake.
> 
> All of a sudden, it clicked for me why NYC spends billions and billions of dollars(enough to build entirely new systems in most parts of the world) on a system which is the most rundown I've seen anywhere (and I've been to about 35 countries and lots of transit systems).
> 
> **** the union. They all deserve to be fired. They get paid far far more than the going rate for their skill-levels, and they don't even do a good job. Rude, slow... just look at overall spending, and the state of the system. There's a big disconnect between the two. European or Japanese workers might also get good salaries, but at least they're efficient.
> 
> If the city government had any real power, they'd destroy this cancer on the city.


whats even crazy is that these cats keep upping are fares, but retired workers and workers who don't even have anything to do with the MTA anymroe are still getting free ez-passes and unlimted passes to ride the subways and commuter rails, while people are just getting poorer and poorer.


----------



## koolkid

The MTA sucks...


----------



## anayda1930

koolkid said:


> The MTA sucks...


io non parlo l'italiano, non capisco niente il tuo parla, perche sei molto coglione!! :scouserd:


----------



## Overground

I'm shocked they still use them. I'll be in NYC in wintertime so I will be able to check out those swinging bars(excuse the pun)....lol...first hand.


----------



## herenthere

definitely agree with koolkid.-MTA does suck.
But see, the MTA will never install electronic doorsf (in the near future):
1) Expensive
2) Too many dishonest people in NYC, nvm the US
3) Staff are lazy and untrained (not well at least)
4) MTA never makes the right decision
And the panic bars that the MTA recently installed (In Emergency Push Open, Alarm Will Sound;Wide Entry Gates) are always misused. I always hear the alarm going off even when there is no emergency.


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## koolkid

I like the way you think...


----------



## koolkid

anayda1930 said:


> io non parlo l'italiano, non capisco niente il tuo parla, perche sei molto coglione!! :scouserd:


 não falo Italiano...
Pero un dia voy ha aprender...
No te entendo... 

Bite me... :sleepy:


----------



## hkskyline




----------



## hkskyline

*NYC can't build subway link unless it gets land *

NEW YORK, Sept 7 (Reuters) - New York City cannot extend Manhattan's No. 7 subway to west Midtown unless a state authority sells it half of the land and certain development rights, a source familiar with the issues said on Thursday. 

The No. 7 subway now stops at Times Square. Real estate experts say developers will not build in west Midtown without the new mass transit link. 

Mayor Michael Bloomberg wanted to use a new financing arm to sell as much as $3 billion of bonds to pay for the subway extension, which would be the first in decades. 

Though the city tried to strengthen the backing for the debt, most recently by pledging $1 billion of city funds over 10 years, financial experts say bondholders still want more assurances that there will be enough revenue to repay them. 

The Republican mayor had hoped to entice developers to the desolate west Midtown area by offering reduced taxes. The tax revenue would then be used to help repay the new Hudson Yards bonds. 

But the city cannot guarantee it can raise that money unless it controls development at the site, which runs from 30th Street to 33rd Street. 

Otherwise, there is a risk that competing developers will build projects whose taxes cannot be used to repay the new bonds, said the source, who declined to be named. 

"If (the city) doesn't give the bond market comfort that there will be no competition for the Hudson Rail Yards, it won't go ahead with the No. 7 line," he said. 

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which runs New York City's bus, subway and commuter train lines, owns the 26-acre site. 

A spokesman for the agency, which got Bloomberg's proposal for the land deal in July, said there was no new information. A mayoral spokeswoman had no immediate comment. 

Last week, the MTA got a new appraisal valuing the eastern half of the site at nearly $1 billion more than the mayor offered to pay for it. 

New York City's $300 million bid does not include a new $400 million platform that would have to be built over the rail yards. The mayor also envisions a less dense development with affordable housing -- two profit-cutting factors the appraisal does not reflect. 

The city also offered the MTA $200 million for development rights for the western half of the site. This would enable the city to back its new bonds by selling developers the rights to build taller buildings and transferring air rights.


----------



## Promiscuous Boy

The smell inside the subway is just uinbearable! uke:


----------



## elkram

hkskyline said:


>


Boy, is that retractable platform edging I see in the foreground of this photo? What a fright that contraption was at some station around the 30 Streets -- unreal, dangerous I thought too.


----------



## hkskyline

Not so long ago, people were complaining that the platform gap is too large and they got out their measuring sticks to show it. I doubt the MTA will fix the problem after that news report came out.


----------



## sfgadv02

hkskyline said:


> Not so long ago, people were complaining that the platform gap is too large and they got out their measuring sticks to show it. I doubt the MTA will fix the problem after that news report came out.


Larger than the one found in KCR?


----------



## superchan7

The curve of some stations in NY and London is too much. I wonder how they can fix the platform gap problem without using expensive extendable ramps.


----------



## hkskyline

sfgadv02 said:


> Larger than the one found in KCR?


Recent incident in NYC : http://wcbstv.com/local/local_story_236075037.html


----------



## herenthere

They really should put "Enter" and "Exit" signs over the turnstiles so ppl don't fight over which is theirs. This would clear up congestion and reduce injuries.


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## sfgadv02

herenthere said:


> They really should put "Enter" and "Exit" signs over the turnstiles so ppl don't fight over which is theirs. This would clear up congestion and reduce injuries.


They dont have enough turnstiles to make those. Some stations only have 3, that's not enough to creat an extrance/exit thing. I agree that people use those Emergency exit as regular exit.....it really is annoying. Just the other day I was at Chambers and the alarm went on every minute. hno: I think it's time they install those magnetic strips card.....:nuts:


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## herenthere

sfgadv02 said:


> They dont have enough turnstiles to make those. Some stations only have 3, that's not enough to creat an extrance/exit thing. I agree that people use those Emergency exit as regular exit.....it really is annoying. Just the other day I was at Chambers and the alarm went on every minute. hno: I think it's time they install those magnetic strips card.....:nuts:


Magnetic strips card?


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## krull

:dunno: Maybe he meant this?


*New Subway Payment Method Is Tested*


By THOMAS J. LUECK
July 12, 2006

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority, working with Citigroup and MasterCard, began a six-month experiment yesterday that will allow subway riders to use specialized bank cards or payment tags instead of MetroCards. The test, paid for by the two financial service companies, is taking place in 30 stations on the Lexington Avenue line between 138th Street in the Bronx and Borough Hall in Brooklyn. At the stations, customers can tap or wave their Citi credit cards, MasterCard debit cards or bank-issued payment tags to gain entry through specially equipped turnstiles. The test is intended to “evaluate the potential of contactless payments to simplify fare payment for customers,” said Peter S. Kalikow, the authority’s chairman.


Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company


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## hkskyline

The trial on the 4/5/6 line with Mastercard still requires operating a turnstile after beeping the chip.


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## hkskyline

*NY subway union hails new pact one year after strike *
Fri Dec 15, 7:01 PM ET
Reuters 

Unionized workers of New York's Metropolitan Transportation Authority's on Friday said an arbitrator has awarded them a new contract that "mimics" the strike-settling pact reached last year that the agency later spurned.

Late last year, a three-day strike by nearly 34,000 bus and subway workers wreaked havoc for commuters, tourists and Christmas shoppers and cost the city's economy more than $1 billion.

The strike ended after the MTA, the biggest U.S. mass transit agency, and Transport Workers Union Local 100 reached a draft accord that obliged the MTA to pay $130 million in retirement benefits if state lawmakers failed to tap the state pension funds.

The provision was bashed by Republican Gov. George Pataki -- and by many members of the riding public who had endured long walks in the bitter cold during the strike.

The union then voted down the deal by seven votes, partly because it would for the first time have made members pay for health care, though it did give pay hikes of 3 percent to 4 percent in each of the following three years.

The MTA rejected the union's pleas to reinstate the accord, and the battle finally went to binding arbitration.

On Friday, the union in a statement said: "The arbitration award handed down today by (George) Nicolau virtually mimics the pact that the TWU and MTA signed as a condition for ending the strike in December 2005."

Nicolau is perhaps best known for settling clashes between Major League Baseball and the players union.

The transit workers get the same raises and the pension and health care benefits in the strike-ending accord, the TWU said. It said Nicolau also awarded them retroactive provisions to reimburse members for the cost of benefits in 2006, ranging from retiree medical care to paid schooling.

A spokesman for the MTA, which the union said had wasted $2 million in legal fees in fighting the accord, commended the arbitrator for his "consensus award."

"This award reinforces the fairness of the Taylor Law's peaceful dispute resolution process and proves that last year's illegal transit strike was utterly unnecessary," the MTA spokesman said.

Public employees are barred from striking under the Taylor law, and the strike cost the union $2.5 million in fines, though some supporters believe it led to a contract with much better terms than the MTA's first offer, which included givebacks.

The state Supreme Court judge who ordered the TWU to pay the steep fines also sentenced its president, Roger Toussaint, to serve a few days in jail.

A union spokesman said it did not yet know whether Toussaint had been reelected in a election whose results were expected as soon as Friday.


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## Songoten2554

does anybody here has a comment about this great project and all the massive projects that are going on in NYC


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## krull

*2nd Ave. Subway Platforms May Get Glass Walls and Sliding Doors*










*Transit officials are considering a system for the subway line employing a double set of sliding doors, much 
like those on the AirTrain at Kennedy Airport.* 


By WILLIAM NEUMAN
Published: April 5, 2007

The Second Avenue subway, as it is envisioned by planners at the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, *will have many modern features that set it apart, including roomier, brightly lighted stations with wider platforms that are cooled in the summertime and are fully accessible to the handicapped.* 

But as the authority prepares for a groundbreaking ceremony next week, planners are considering one innovation that would make the Second Avenue subway radically different from every other line in the city: *mechanical doors on the edge of the platforms that would open to allow passengers to move on and off the trains.*

*The doors, set into a wall of glass or metal, would create a floor-to-ceiling barrier, sealing off the track and tunnel area from the platforms and altering forever the daily experience of waiting passengers. Gone would be the rush of air and thunder, gone the visceral thrill as many tons of steel hurtle by at high speed, just inches away, all replaced by the hygienic interface of technology. 

Several subway systems in Europe and Asia use the doors, known as platform edge doors or platform screen doors*.

*They are also used in this country in many airport shuttle train systems, including the AirTrain at Kennedy International Airport. *

Ernest Tollerson, the transportation authority’s policy director, said Tuesday that the authority was studying the feasibility of incorporating the platform edge doors into designs for the Second Avenue subway. 

The doors, he said, could allow substantial energy savings in the station cooling systems, which would use cold water to chill air blown into the stations and reduce temperatures by about 10 degrees. With open platforms, the hot air from the tunnels would mix with the cooled air in the stations. With doors on the platform edge, the heat from the tunnels would be at least partly blocked and the cooling system could operate more efficiently.

“They have a lot of advantages in B.T.U. savings and things like that,” Mr. Tollerson said. “They improve the station environment. It’s a design element worth looking at.”

He described the initiative as part of a larger effort to consider the environmental impact of the authority’s operations.

“There is an interest in thinking about and figuring out — if we’re going to live in a carbon-constrained world and we’re going to think about the ecological footprint of a global city and a global region — where does the M.T.A. fit in all that and what should the M.T.A. be thinking about and doing,” Mr. Tollerson said.

*Engineers working on the new line’s design had previously considered the platform doors, but the concept was rejected because of concerns about its cost and the way it would affect subway operations.* It was opposed by Lawrence G. Reuter, who was president of New York City Transit from 1996 until February 2007. 

*Last month, however, planners at the authority asked the engineering firms that have been designing the subway line to take another look at incorporating platform doors.*

Mr. Tollerson said the review was not related to Mr. Reuter’s departure. He said the idea came out of discussions he had with Mysore L. Nagaraja, the authority’s president of capital construction.

Mr. Nagaraja said that besides the potential energy savings, there were safety benefits as well. 

With the door system in place, people could not fall or jump in front of trains. He also said the doors could reduce track fires, because people could not throw trash onto the tracks.

The doors would be likely to add to the cost of building the new subway line, which has a budget of $3.8 billion. Mr. Nagaraja said engineers would estimate those costs, and the degree to which they would be offset by savings in cooling expenses. 

Mr. Nagaraja said that in earlier discussions of the platform edge doors, transit officials had expressed concerns about long-term maintenance requirements. 

One concern is that most if not all train systems that use platform edge doors also incorporate a system of computerized train operation in which trains stop at exactly the same spot every time, and are always lined up properly with the platform doors. *The authority has been working to develop a computerized system for New York subways, but it is still a long-term goal. With the current system, the doors would have to be designed to operate with trains controlled by human drivers.*

The first phase of the new subway line is to include four stations, from 96th Street to 63rd Street, and is scheduled to be finished in 2013. 

Mr. Reuter, the former transit agency president, said that *in the 1980s and again in the 1990s, the possibility of retrofitting the entire subway system with platform edge doors was discussed at the authority. Both times, he said, the idea was discarded, largely because of difficulties in integrating the doors with the existing system.* When the idea arose again in planning for the Second Avenue subway, Mr. Reuter said, he opposed it. 

“I definitely discouraged it because it’s a cost item and it’s a maintenance item,” said Mr. Reuter, who now works in Miami as a senior vice president of Parsons Brinckerhoff, an engineering firm. “It’s only going to apply in a few stations. What good is it going to do if you can’t adapt it to the rest of the system? I didn’t see any benefit, plus it’s going to cost extra money to maintain them.”


Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company


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## ChinaboyUSA

good news. compare with chinese cities, like shanghai, new york subway is much backward, i suggest that new york mta take a trip to shanghai, you will see how the metro system and i fully urge that nyc subway system can make the new line a much cleaner one than the old ones.


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## sarflonlad

ChinaboyUSA said:


> good news. compare with chinese cities, like shanghai, new york subway is much backward, i suggest that new york mta take a trip to shanghai, you will see how the metro system and i fully urge that nyc subway system can make the new line a much cleaner one than the old ones.


NY is one of the mother subways... I think it's more probably those in shanghai made a trip to NYC to see how to do things whilst looking at what can be improved upon.


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## firmanhadi

I believe it, when I ride it



ChinaboyUSA said:


> good news. compare with chinese cities, like shanghai, new york subway is much backward, i suggest that new york mta take a trip to shanghai, you will see how the metro system and i fully urge that nyc subway system can make the new line a much cleaner one than the old ones.


How big is the Shanghai system?


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## Metsfan1520

its finally coming. groundbreaking is april, 12. finally ny can have a civilized subway line with platform doors and air conditioning. the new platforms will not have those ugly obstructive columns. the platform will be open and column free.


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## hp500hp

ChinaboyUSA said:


> good news. compare with chinese cities, like shanghai, new york subway is much backward, i suggest that new york mta take a trip to shanghai, you will see how the metro system and i fully urge that nyc subway system can make the new line a much cleaner one than the old ones.


Totally invalid comparison.
Should compare Shanghai with Taipei or Singapore.
I think Shanghai is very poorly managed compared to these two.


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## hkskyline

New York has a much older system, so it is unfair to compare it with newer lines elsewhere. They were designed for different purposes in different eras.

That being said, Shanghai's first 2 lines have aged quite badly. However, the new lines look very nice and sleek.


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## Jean Luc

krull said:


> *With the current system, the doors would have to be designed to operate with trains controlled by human drivers.*


On the London Underground's Jubilee line extension the underground stations have platform edge screens and doors but the trains are still driven by humans, not computers, so it is possible.


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## Don Omar

Is That Finally the Sound of a 2nd Ave. Subway?









_Mayor John V. Lindsay swung his pickax at a subway groundbreaking in 1972. Looking on, from left, were Percy E. Sutton, the Manhattan borough president; Senator Jacob K. Javits; John A. Volpe, United States secretary of transportation; and Gov. Nelson A. Rockefeller._

By WILLIAM NEUMAN
Published: April 9, 2007
nytimes.com

The neckties are wide and the sideburns long, the pickaxes gleam in the sunlight. The governor thanks the president for providing money. The mayor jokes that “whatever is said about this project in the years to come, certainly no one can say that the city acted rashly or without due deliberation.”

The governor swings his pickax, but the pavement is too hard. A jackhammer is brought in to loosen things up. Now the governor and the mayor lay to with gusto.

The Second Avenue subway is born.

Or so it seemed at the time.

The sideburns were long and the neckties wide because it was 1972. The president was Nixon. The governor was Rockefeller. The mayor was Lindsay. And nearly 35 years later, no trains have ever run under Second Avenue.

But the line has had at least three groundbreakings.

On Thursday it will get another one.

Gov. Eliot Spitzer and a host of dignitaries will descend through a sidewalk hatch at Second Avenue and 102nd Street, a block south of the spot where Gov. Nelson A. Rockefeller and Mayor John V. Lindsay held a groundbreaking in October 1972. They will go into a never-used section of a three-decade old subway tunnel, stretching from 105th Street to 99th Street. The governor will give a speech, hoist a pickax and take a few cracks at the concrete wall, symbolically beginning the construction where it left off in the 1970s.

“There used to be a saying in New York, ‘I should live so long,’ ” said William J. Ronan, the first chairman of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, who presided over the groundbreaking in 1972.

“Well I sure hope they’ll do it this time because time is moving on,” Dr. Ronan, 94, who lives in Florida, said. “And of course it’s going to cost a fortune, more than back when we were going to do it. It was expensive enough then.”

Several factors actually suggest that this time the outcome may be different. The financing for the $3.8 billion project appears more certain than in the past, including an anticipated federal commitment to cover about a third of the cost.

And the plan is more measured. The goal is to build a first section of the subway with stops along Second Avenue at 96th, 86th and 72nd Streets and at 63rd Street and Lexington Avenue. It is intended to operate as an extension of the Q line and is expected to open in 2013. Once further financing is secured, later phases of construction will extend the line north to 125th Street and south to Lower Manhattan.

It was September 1929 when the city formally announced plans to build the Second Avenue subway, running the length of the East Side and into the Bronx. The cost of digging the Manhattan portion of the tunnel was estimated at $99 million, although there would be additional expenses, including the cost of real estate and equipment.

The Second Avenue plans were part of an ambitious expansion to add a 100-mile network with an overall estimated cost of about $800 million. But within a few years, during the Great Depression, planning for the new line came to a halt.

The plans were revived during World War II. In 1951, voters approved a measure that allowed the city to raise $500 million for transit improvements, with the expectation that most of it would go to build the new line. But the money was used to fix up the existing system. No work was performed on Second Avenue.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority took over the city’s subway system in 1968. Dr. Ronan began championing an ambitious range of projects, including the Second Avenue subway, from Whitehall Street to 138th Street in the Bronx. In 1968 the subway line bore a remarkably modest price tag of $335 million, but by the time of the groundbreaking in 1972, it had risen to $1 billion.

That ceremony was preserved in an 8 millimeter film shot by Robert A. Olmsted, who was a top planner at the transportation authority.

In the film, the sun is shining brightly, although some of the men are wearing coats and fedoras. There is a holiday air, and the mayor and the governor are all smiles. The two have been feuding for years, but on this day, they manage to keep their pickaxes aimed at the street.

“We were optimistic,” recalled Mr. Olmsted, who is 82. “It looked like we were going to get something done.”

Dr. Ronan recalled feeling that, “at long last, we’re going to have the Second Avenue subway.”

“It was a great day when they got to the groundbreaking,” he said. “Everybody was congratulating everybody. It got good play. It should have.”

Sidney J. Frigand, who was a spokesman at the authority in 1972, said he was more skeptical, especially about how the project would be financed. “There were a lot of flaws that had to be ironed out, and I sensed that it wouldn’t proceed as rapidly as we hoped,” he said.

Last week, a reporter described the film to Mr. Frigand, including the portion where the governor’s pickax failed to make the desired impact and the jackhammer had to be called in. “That’s the perils of groundbreaking,” Mr. Frigand, 81, said.

In October 1973, a year after that ceremony, another groundbreaking was held for the start of work on the downtown section, at Canal Street. Mayor Lindsay had gone bareheaded the previous year but now, according to a report in The New York Times, he wore a hard hat and talked ominously about “brinksmanship,” suggesting the city could not afford to keep building the subway without a large infusion of federal money. The cost had reached $1.3 billion.

This time, the pavement had been broken up in advance. After the speeches, The Times reported, the mayor attacked the loosened paving blocks with his pick.

In July 1974, Mayor Abraham D. Beame attended a groundbreaking at Second Avenue and Second Street. He went at the pavement with a jackhammer. The plan was to build the subway piecemeal, contracting out short, disconnected sections.

A year later the city was near bankruptcy; Mayor Beame called a halt to further construction. The stretch of tunnel he broke ground on was never built, although three other sections were finished and sealed. They included the two that Mayor Lindsay inaugurated, from 99th Street to 105th Street and Canal Street to Chatham Square, and a section from 110th Street to 120th Street.

Edward I. Koch was a congressman in 1972, and he appears in the film of the groundbreaking, although he said last week that he did not remember the event.

“I have no recollection of that day,” said Mr. Koch, who became mayor in 1978. “I do have a recollection that the Second Avenue subway — the first shovel went into the ground when God created the earth.”



























Video


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## Don Omar

map does not include all of the subway stops


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## Songoten2554

at least finally its going to begin for the pride of NYC and for the long Delayed construction to finally to begin and like they said the money is secured for the further expansion as well so everything is going ok

anyways i think the second ave subway will look the most modern and futuristic of all the subways that are running in NYC it will mirror other systems that have modern to futuristic lines like

London: the jubliee line extension project
Paris: line 14 Meteor
Tokyo: odeo and Line 13 (2008)
Los Angeles: LA Metro Red and Purple extension to the beach (very soon)
there are others but this is what i listed 

anyways correct me if i am wrong


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## micro

Songoten2554 said:


> what do all of you think?? postive or negative thoughts??


How can anyone have negative thoughts? Second Avenue Line plans are really a great thing. And I believe those platform screen doors will also turn out to be a good thing despite the concerns about cost, maintenance, and door alignment, because about 26 other subways of the world have them already and some more are planning them.


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## hkskyline

*New City Transit Chief Slated To Start Today *
Special to the Sun
April 11, 2007

A former vice president of the city's bus system is scheduled to become president of New York City Transit today.

Howard Roberts, 67, was appointed yesterday by the CEO of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, Elliot Sander, to head the agency that oversees the city's subways and buses. Mr. Sander worked under Mr. Roberts in the 1980s in the MTA's bus division.

Transit advocates say they hope that Mr. Roberts's bus background will make him a proponent of implementing faster bus lanes, known as Bus Rapid Transit, in all five boroughs.

The former president of New York City Transit, Lawrence Reuter, stepped down from the post last month after 11 years in the job.


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## Songoten2554

great news finally the second ave subway has started construction for the longest time since the 1970's its amazing now it finally has broken ground and its cool that this will be the one of the grandest projects of NYC and NJ as well as the other projects

finally it has come true a major subway system expanded since for a long time go NYC


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## Minato ku

micro said:


> How can anyone have negative thoughts? Second Avenue Line plans are really a great thing. And I believe those platform screen doors will also turn out to be a good thing despite the concerns about cost, maintenance, and door alignment, because about 26 other subways of the world have them already and some more are planning them.


You should soon incude Paris metro line 1 & line 13.


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## Xusein

As I have to say, it's about damn time, this should have been built decades ago.


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## milwaukee-københavn

What's the rationale for tunneling an entirely new subway line only a few blocks away from Lexington Ave.?


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## Xusein

^^ That line is getting too overcrowded, and this new line would relieve it.

Plus, it's being built in a rich place :dunno:


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## hkskyline

*Second Ave. Subway Lurches Forward
New Yorkers Have Waited Nearly 90 Years for the Oft-Promised East Side Line *
22 April 2007
The Washington Post

New York is a city of transit myths: Alligators live in the subway tunnels. A man died on the train, but no one noticed. Yeah, I'll sell you the Brooklyn Bridge. 

Someday there will be a Second Avenue subway line. 

That subway line, first proposed in 1920, has been repeatedly planned and abandoned. It has become New York's longest-running municipal joke, its partially built, unused tunnels a hollow promise of economic growth snaking under the East Side of Manhattan. 

But a groundbreaking ceremony this month -- the line's fourth -- has relaunched construction on what would be the first New York subway line to be built in more than 70 years. After the four phases of construction are completed, the Second Avenue train is to shuttle from Lower Manhattan to Spanish Harlem and link some of Manhattan's wealthiest neighborhoods and some of its poorest. 

The Second Avenue subway has become a metaphor for the city's grand ambitions and its inability to get things done. Its status has marked the city's ragged cycles of boom and bust, each optimistic period causing officials to haul out the subway plans and each recession prompting them to be shelved. 

"As goes the Second Avenue subway, so goes New York," said Daniel L. Doctoroff, the city's deputy mayor for economic development. He spoke at the groundbreaking, which took place in a portion of the unused Second Avenue tunnel that had been sealed off -- a pristine, pale cement hollow beneath 99th Street. 

Now, as New York is being reborn as a boomtown -- and its subway is no longer perceived as a lawless place of muggings, graffiti, broken doors and smashed lights -- the Second Avenue line is having another revival. 

"This time it's for real," said Elliot G. Sander, executive director of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which runs the subways. 

Transportation analysts say planners want to keep pace with the growing city. Subway ridership last year was 1.4 billion, its highest since 1952. 

It will take $3.8 billion, mostly secured in federal and state funds, for the first phase of construction, extending the existing Q train route along Second Avenue from 63rd Street to 96th. This is due to be completed by 2013. 

The first Second Avenue line, an elevated train, cast a dark shadow onto the street below and spewed out cinder, soot and noise. As subways replaced the "Els" on several north-south routes, Second Avenue was supposed to follow suit. 

In 1929, plans for a Second Avenue subway were revived -- months before the stock market crash -- then were shelved because of the Great Depression. 

The Second Avenue El was dismantled in wartime 1942, and plans for a subway line were resurrected. The destruction of the Els was cast with historical import, as a false rumor spread that the Japanese bought the scrap and used it for bombs to rain down on Pearl Harbor. In 1951, a measure passed permitting the city to raise $500 million, mainly to build the Second Avenue line. But the money disappeared into repairs for the existing subway. 

Then the MTA took over the city's subways in 1968 and pushed for a Second Avenue expansion of the system. 

When a groundbreaking finally took place on a sunny October day in 1972, Gov. Nelson A. Rockefeller joked that "no one can say that the city acted rashly." Further ceremonies followed in 1973 and 1974 for different construction locations. But the city's fiscal crisis in 1974 again braked expansion, leaving useless, disconnected stretches of tunnel. 

Those sealed-off tunnels have to be maintained, at a cost of at least $20,000 a year, because they support the streets above, said Peter G. Cafiero, acting chief of operations planning for the MTA. 

The tunnels, like any good myth, have found their way into art. In a comic play by Chad Beckim, the subway line catches three residents off-guard in gentrifying East Harlem and symbolically runs over them. One novel warns that near the Second Avenue tunnels are vampires; another book says Viking ships. 

New Yorkers have suggested installing a mushroom farm or a wine cellar in the tunnels. (Former mayor Edward I. Koch said he'd rather bet on the mushroom harvest than on the completion of the subway.) In the early 1980s, the MTA announced it would rent the tunnels to any imaginative entrepreneur, and one company sought to use the space as "the world's longest filing cabinet." 

But none of this solved the East Side's needs for transportation. 

Urban planners and historians say the lack of a Second Avenue line has actually affected the face of the city. 

The East Village and the Lower East Side -- districts settled by immigrant Jews and later Poles, Puerto Ricans and Dominicans -- remained poor tenement neighborhoods partly for lack of a subway, said Kenneth T. Jackson, a professor of urban history at Columbia University. Ditto for Second Avenue north of the United Nations at 42nd Street, he said. 

"The spine of elite settlement runs up the center of the island," said Jackson. "In New York, you need to be attached to the subway system to justify high density and high rents." 

While Manhattan's West Side has three subway lines, the East Side has only one, the overcrowded Lexington Avenue line, which crams in 1.5 million riders on a weekday, 30 percent of the system's ridership -- more riders than the entire rail systems of cities such as Washington, Los Angeles and Miami. 

To ease the crush, officials have looked back in time and considered rebuilding a trolley line or encouraging an East River commuter ferry service, which a century ago transported millions a year. But then plans focused anew on the subway, which will eventually extend north to Harlem and south to the lower tip of Manhattan at Hanover Square. 

"The history is rumors," said Maria Sorobay, 77, who has lived on Second Avenue for 35 years but is not sure she'll ever ride its subway line. "It's a good thing I like to walk."


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## Songoten2554

i am happy now that this subway line is going to be constructed so prepare new york the future will be coming real soon and fast


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## Don Omar

First Look: Second Avenue Subway Stations










by Alec Appelbaum
4/12/07








We reported earlier on today's groundbreaking for the Second Avenue Subway, and we told you that "stations on the line will have natural light and column-free corridors (and, according to renderings, odd shards of Daniel Libeskind–esque glass)." Here now, renderings of those stations. (There's a larger version here.) Libeskinn-esque, indeed.


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## newyorkrunaway1

great news that this started last month.

one quick question, why is ny not building more crosstown subways too? it seems like the city is lacking these vital links


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## hkskyline

*Mass-transit building boom begins in Manhattan *
21 May 2007
USA Today

New York, other metro areas seek to expand public transportation as old systems strain. About 100M more people will live in the USA by 2040; many will take subways and buses. 

NEW YORK -- The quest for a subway to carry commuters along Manhattan's Second Avenue long has bordered on the quixotic, the project beset by more fits and starts than a bus lumbering through rush hour. 

First proposed in 1920, the Second Avenue line near the East River was shelved by the stock market crash of 1929, by World War II in the 1940s, and then by the 1970s financial crisis that crippled New York City. 

Now, there may be light at the end of the tunnel. Much of the funding is in place for at least the initial phase of construction, and ground was broken last month for the elusive subway line. 

While it may bear the most history, the Second Avenue subway is only one piece of the most significant expansion of New York City's transportation network in more than 60 years. 

The nation's largest public-transit system -- 7.5 million trips every weekday -- is undergoing an unprecedented building boom in anticipation of a population surge that is likely to add 1 million more residents to the city over the next two decades. 

Several other metropolitan areas are following suit, adding buses, improving routes and laying miles of track to combat traffic congestion and prepare for the 100 million more people expected to live in the USA by 2040. 

"Most of those people are going to settle in metro areas ... and that means public transit will have to be one of the things that enable people to settle there," says William Millar, president of the American Public Transportation Association. "There's an understanding (among) the public. They want to have choice in their travel, and they're willing to pay for it." 

Concerns about high gasoline prices, congested roads and the growing number of aging drivers who eventually may need other ways to get around are compelling voters to approve ballot measures that create transportation plans and raise taxes to pay for such projects. 

Voters stepping up 

In November, 21 of 32 ballot measures for transit were approved by voters in 12 states, providing more than $40 billion for local projects, says Bridget Hennessey of the Center for Transportation Excellence, a Washington, D.C.-based clearinghouse that tracks such efforts. 

"We're seeing it not just in cities, but even (in) some rural locations," Hennessey says of the proposals, "because they're looking at their population growth in the future and rising gas prices, and they know they need other options." 

Some cities are building transportation networks for the first time, while others are ramping up systems that have been in place for decades: 

*In Salt Lake County, Utah, where 1 million more people are projected to settle by 2030, transportation officials are planning or constructing seven additional light-rail routes and commuter- rail lines, pushing rail transit for the area to 134 miles from 19. Two routes are set to be completed next spring, the other five by 2015. 

"It's a new direction," Chad Saley, spokesman for the Utah Transit Authority, says of efforts to improve public transit in a state that built its first light-rail system only eight years ago. In November, two counties approved ballot measures to raise sales taxes by a quarter of a cent to help fund some of the projects, which will cost more than $2.8 billion. 

*Denver plans to add 119 miles of light and commuter rail to its current 35 miles of track, expanding a system that has more than 62,500 boardings on an average weekday. "While we're trying to accommodate growth that's already happened, we're also trying to look ahead," says Pauletta Tonilas, spokeswoman for the transportation expansion known as FasTracks. Construction in the first of six new corridors is scheduled to begin in 2008. 

*A sales tax increase Seattle-area voters adopted in November will enable the bus system to increase service by 20% during the next decade, the largest increase in 20 years, says Kevin Desmond, general manager of King County Metro Transit. 

Desmond says buses will run more frequently, bus stops will be improved and more hybrid diesel-electric buses will be added to the fleet. With "high gas prices and pretty terrible traffic conditions, more people are choosing the bus service," Desmond says. "It is good, and we need to make it better." 

Projects abound in New York 

In New York City, transportation projects that are planned or underway include extension of subway service to the far West Side of Manhattan, possibly hastening commercial and residential development in the area. Also on tap: a new Long Island Railroad terminal at Grand Central Station in Midtown and a transit center in Lower Manhattan that will make a labyrinth of subway entrances easier to navigate. 

"I believe that the city and the region will not be able to achieve the growth as projected of 1 million people in the city and 3 (million) or 4 million in the region if we do not do these projects," says Elliot Sander, executive director of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. 

To also help accommodate the population surge and tens of thousands of projected new jobs, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey and the state of New Jersey have committed $3.5 billion toward constructing a new rail tunnel linking Manhattan and New Jersey. 

Officials are seeking federal funds for the $7.5 billion tunnel, whose capacity would double the 140,000 passenger trips each weekday in the existing tunnel, says Kris Kolluri, commissioner of New Jersey's Department of Transportation. 

The Second Avenue line will be the city's first major subway construction since the 1930s. Not having it "is like having this huge blockage in the heart of the region's center," Sander says. 

Elevated train lines operated along Manhattan's East Side for decades, but the last one stopped running in 1955 in anticipation of the Second Avenue subway. Since then, subway service on the East Side has been limited to trains under Lexington Avenue, which have become the city's most crowded. 

Many New Yorkers have doubted they would ever see a Second Avenue subway. 

"We call it the most famous thing that's never been built in New York City," says Gene Russianoff, senior attorney for Straphangers Campaign, a local advocacy group for subway riders. "I go to community groups and there's a lot of skepticism (about whether) it's going to happen, and I keep telling people that this time they set the bar at a level where they can meet it." 

Still, only $3 billion in federal and local funds has been secured of the $3.8 billion needed for the first phase of the project, scheduled to be completed in 2013. 

The pace of the remaining three phases on the line, which will ultimately stretch for 8.5 miles, will depend on the ability to secure funding. 

Sander is optimistic. "For a project of this nature to have that amount of funding when you're breaking ground," he says, "is the equivalent of rounding third base and heading home."


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## hkskyline

*NYC transit says that some subway lines are swollen to capacity *
26 June 2007

NEW YORK (AP) - Some of New York City's busiest subway lines are at capacity, with no more room on the tracks to add trains to alleviate swelling crowds of riders, officials said. 

New York City Transit presented an analysis of data showing how often trains run late, how crowded they are and whether more trains could be added to ease the problems. 

Howard H. Roberts Jr., the president of New York City Transit, told members of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's board that the assessment's findings are "scary." 

"This is scary in the sense that right now, on a lot of these lines, we're several years and a big capital construction project away from being able to provide what I would consider adequate service," Roberts said on Monday. "We're constrained." 

Heavily traversed numbered lines have little or no room to accommodate more riders, Roberts said. 

The results could have implications for congestion pricing, which would charge people to drive into Manhattan to encourage them to use mass transit. 

Roberts told the board that congestion pricing may mean that the MTA has to rely on more buses. "If all those cars don't come in, there will be more room for the buses," he said. 

The problem of overcrowding on trains could be alleviated by the new Second Avenue subway and expansion of computerized signal systems, or even the extension of platforms at some stations to accommodate longer trains. But many of those solutions are years away from completion.


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## lokinyc

^^^ duh! The F has become simply unbearable, the 6 as well.


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## iampuking

I love the New York subway, it has something so... New York about it.


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## sfgadv02

lokinyc said:


> ^^^ duh! The F has become simply unbearable, the 6 as well.


Downtown 6 isn't that bad actually but the Uptown 6 is horrible during rush hour. The 4/5 is the worst, although they do come pretty quickly.


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## kub86

Does anybody have ridership figures for the individual lines?


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## hkskyline

*NY can't offer adequate subway svc for yrs-official *

NEW YORK, June 25 (Reuters) - Any relief for New York City straphangers, who now endure overcrowded and often delayed trains, is several years away, even if the money is found to improve them, the president of New York City Transit said on Monday. 

"From our point of view, this is scary," Howard Roberts, who was appointed to run the subway arm of the state mass transit agency in April, told reporters. 

"We're several years and a big capital project away from being able to provide what I call adequate service," he continued, releasing a chart that showed key north-south lines on Manhattan's west and east sides were way over capacity. 

New York somehow lost the courage to build new subways back around World War Two, New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg says. He proposed charging weekday Manhattan drivers $8 a car during peak hours from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. to help raise some of the billions of dollars needed for new links, but that plan stalled in the state legislature last week. 

Bloomberg's plan also risks burdening the already stretched mass-transit system if the new anti-traffic fees succeed in encouraging drivers to take trains and buses. 

That is why the city and the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, an umbrella transit agency, are focused on adding express buses to handle the new customers. 

New York City's new transit chief delivered his unvarnished warning just a few weeks before the MTA starts drafting a new budget. The nation's biggest mass transit agency, with around 8 million daily riders, not only must close billion-dollar shortfalls in future years, but still lacks $1 billion for its new Second Ave. Subway. 

Work began on that line -- the first since 1936 -- in April, but its first leg, which will carry riders from 92nd St. on Manhattan's East Side south to 62nd St., only opens in 2013. 

And speeding trips for the millions of riders who now rely on the east side's Lexington Ave. subway and the west side's 1,2 and 3 lines, could require costly and time-consuming fixes, such as lengthening stations so they can handle more trains at one time as well as improving signals and controls. 

"If we were able to speed the system up, that's probably four to five years (away)," Roberts said. His engineers should finish a feasibility study by the end of June, he said, adding it was too early to say what those improvements might cost -- and how many stations could be lengthened at one time. 

Unlike commuter railroads, subway riders cannot simply walk forward several cars if a station is too short, he said, if only because the stops simply are too brisk. 

"There is a limit to how fast you can get, how many cars you can put in a tunnel ... how many cars can get through a tunnel in an hour," he said. 

The Lexington and the 1,2,3 lines are some of the city's busiest lines, carrying riders from the Bronx south through Manhattan and into Brooklyn. They now are so over-stretched that even minor delays can ripple into lengthy waits. 

Even the Second Ave subway will not be enough to fix the system-wide crowding, let alone handle the 1 million new residents expected to to New York by 2030, Roberts added. 

Bloomberg, who recently left the Republican Party and changed his political status to independent, on Monday told reporters he was still hopeful that the legislature will enact his new traffic-busting fees. 

As straphangers fret the MTA might raise its current $2 base subway and bus fare, he cited another gaping problem: "Nobody's planning new service up in Brooklyn and parts of the Bronx." 

The Lexington line is so jammed that a fiscal monitor has proposed ripping out the seats to pack more people in, noted Gene Russianoff, a transit advocate with the Straphangers Campaign. "I was pretty outraged," he said, adding this would have been tough for riders with long interborough trips.


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## tugavalenciano




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## Alargule

^^

Great. Another 'map spammer' aboard. Plus: that map is at least FIVE YEARS outdated.

Go post your crap somewhere else, please?


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## hkskyline

*After two years, NYPD keeps up pace of subway bag searches *
6 July 2007

NEW YORK (AP) - Two years after starting random searches of passengers' bags on America's biggest subway system, police still set up more than 300 checkpoints per week, a police spokesman said. 

The inspections are conducted in each of the city's 468 subway stations at least 35 times a year, spokesman Paul Browne said. He said the searches are conducted for several hours at a stretch and at all times of day. 

The police department won't give many details about the searches, including their locations, because "we don't want to telegraph that information to the enemy, to people who would kill New Yorkers," Browne said. 

The inspections began as a response to the suicide bombings that killed 52 people on London's subway and bus system on July 7, 2005. Terrorism experts say the random approach helps deter potential attackers by keeping them guessing. 

"When you have randomness, it is more effective than when you do it all the time," said Timothy P. Connors, the director of the Center for Policing Terrorism at the Manhattan Institute for Policy Research, a conservative-leaning think tank. "If you have a predictable regimen, it can be exploited." 

But the New York Civil Liberties Union challenged the inspections in court, saying they were an unprecedented intrusion on privacy and an ineffective, easily evaded tactic. A federal appeals court upheld the constitutionality of the inspections in August 2006, calling the terrorism threat "substantial and real" and the searches "reasonably effective." 

An NYCLU lawyer continued to question the practice Thursday. 

"We fully support subway security measures," said the lawyer, Christopher Dunn. But he said the searches cover so few subway stations at any given time that they "cannot be effective enough to justify suspicionless police searches of law-abiding New Yorkers." 

Browne, the police spokesman, said the program "is what it is." 

"We've never said it's every place, all the time," he said.


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## hkskyline




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## hkskyline

*Report: Nearly two thirds of New York sunbway riders say they have been sexually harassed *
26 July 2007

NEW YORK (AP) - A new report finds that 63 percent of New Yorkers said they had been sexually harassed in the city's subways. 

The report, titled "Hidden in Plain Sight," also found that 96 percent of respondents who had been harassed said they did not report the incident -- indicating that such behavior is widely accepted, Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer said Thursday. 

"The credo of `what happens underground, stays underground' has got to be broken," said Stringer. "The harassment and assault of women in the subway system has been going on for decades." 

The survey was compiled from responses from 1,790 subway riders in all five New York City boroughs. Stringer said the results were not scientific, but that the report provides "an invaluable snapshot of a problem that persists but is inherently difficult to quantify." 

The New York Police Department responded that crime on the transit system is at a record low, and police have arrested 119 people this year for sexual abuse or lewdness on the subways. Jeremy Soffin, spokesman for the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, said his agency's work with police has contributing to record numbers of subway riders. 

Stringer's office partnered with 20 other groups in disseminating the survey via e-mail. 

The report defined harassment as unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, flashing, groping, fondling and public masturbation. The vast majority of the victims were females, the study indicated.


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## hkskyline

*Report: Safety rules ignored in deaths of NYC subway workers *
2 August 2007

NEW YORK (AP) - The first detailed accounts of what led to the deaths of two subway workers in April show that basic safety guidelines were flouted and supervisors failed to alert train operators that workers were on the tracks. 

The reports released Wednesday by New York City Transit called for a broad overhaul of safety practices and for discipline to be considered for the three supervisors whose actions contributed to the workers' deaths. 

Howard H. Roberts Jr., the president of New York City Transit, told The New York Times in its Thursday editions that the agency was working with the Transport Workers Union to reduce chances of such accidents occurring again. 

"There are major barriers, the primary one being cultural, that we have to figure out how to handle," he said. "In many cases people do not follow the rules and consider the rules in some cases not to be particularly pertinent to how they see themselves as getting the work done." 

A board of inquiry made of transit officials and union representatives authored the reports on the workers' deaths. 

Daniel Boggs, 41, was struck by a train near Columbus Circle on April 24, and Marvin Franklin was hit by a train at the Hoyt-Schermerhorn station in downtown Brooklyn. 

The report on Franklin's death said that "organizational culture was such that critical safety rules were not practiced in day-to-day operations." 

It also detailed how a supervisor who was supposed to be acting as a flagman, watching for oncoming trains, left his post; and how, moments later, a train plowed through the station, striking Franklin and another worker, who was hurt but survived. 

The supervisor who was supposed to be the flagman told the report's authors that he never left his post. Instead, he said, he tried warning the endangered workers that they were "on the wrong track." That testimony was contradicted by others who testified for the board of inquiry. 

The report did not lay full blame on the supervisor. It also described how Franklin and the other worker broke safety rules. 

The report on Boggs' death said he crossed over to an express track that he may have thought was closed to traffic -- as had been scheduled. But train controllers had kept it open temporarily because of a stalled train on another track. 

Boggs' supervisor, the report said, failed to communicate with train controllers to warn them that the subway worker was on the express track when a downtown train roared down it. 

Following the two accidents in April, New York City Transit suspended all track work and those who do maintenance in the subways were retrained on all elements of safety.


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## ElVoltageDR

NYC Subway... Man I've been using it for most of my life and I have to say it's not so bad, but it's not so great either. Some stations are really nice and some are just... crappy.


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## Tymel

ElVoltageDR said:


> NYC Subway... Man I've been using it for most of my life and I have to say it's not so bad, but it's not so great either. Some stations are really nice and some are just... crappy.


I know what you mean, I also wish they can get some type of ventilation down there because in the summer that place is hot as hell.:nuts:


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## elkram

hkskyline said:


> *Report: Safety rules ignored in deaths of NYC subway workers *


How come? Is a train a couple or more tracks over from a worksite there permitted to proceed at speed ("plowed")? I don't remember the article relating track-speed rules.






hkskyline said:


> *Report: Nearly two thirds of New York sunbway riders say they have been sexually harassed *





hkskyline said:


> defined harassment as unwelcome sexual advances


I don't understand guys who leer here -- they overdo staring, they need some switches of their's flipped off -- man, those makeups of guys gotta amount to being the most disturbing circuitry filtered out by many women underground here -- for just a couple's worth I found myself suddenly stomping my foot once either occassion to snap each out of his *too*-far-fetched thoughtless despair, can you believe them?


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## koolkid

I so agree with the harassment. A few months ago i was on the D train when suddenly some woman tugs my rear end. I mean, it would've so made my day if she weren't ugly. Never been the same ever since...


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## elkram

^^ <^Your hand job's cracking me up, is it that weeny? I'm just kiddin'. Motorists flipping me the bird here become astonished (outrageous reactions in Vancouver, mind you) when I flick my wrist back at them, that's also why I'm laughing. Silly drama out there.


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## koolkid

Im actually playing a game of dice. I mean cummon, what else can i be doing...


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## koolkid

Wait for it...Here i come!


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## elkram

I've always told folks I'm the slowest when it comes to sexual jokes (who cares), hence I'm laughing again -- dicy shtuff!


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## ElVoltageDR

Tymel said:


> I know what you mean, I also wish they can get some type of ventilation down there because in the summer that place is hot as hell.:nuts:


Yeah some stations practically become ovens during the summer. Some stations have fans, but it's only a hand full.


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## elkram

Years ago a friend and I went to Paris for a month while another other friend of mine went there too but stayed longer. My party, I guess, took the nice neighbourhoods where the metro stations were scented with some incense-like fragrance. My other friend complained about the stench in the metro there. I asked her if she ever smelled the station fragrance but she hadn't.

Does NY's still reek of urine when it's hot underground (I avoid summers there)?


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## ElVoltageDR

elkram said:


> Years ago a friend and I went to Paris for a month while another other friend of mine went there too but stayed longer. My party, I guess, took the nice neighbourhoods where the metro stations were scented with some incense-like fragrance. My other friend complained about the stench in the metro there. I asked her if she ever smelled the station fragrance but she hadn't.
> 
> Does NY's still reek of urine when it's hot underground (I avoid summers there)?


Depends where you are. Run down stations will probably smell like urine and other almost unidentifiable odors. Some of the bigger stations don't reek that much if you don't go to the ends of the station. Most of the time the ends stink because homeless people live there.


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## hkskyline

*Restoring Trust in Mass Transit *
12 August 2007
The New York Times

Residents, commuters and visitors showed a tremendous amount of grace and forbearance last week when torrential rains closed much of the subway system. Despite uncomfortable heat and humidity, they piled into overburdened buses and found other ways to cope. Now that everyone has had a chance to cool off, officials need to work overtime to regain the public's confidence in mass transit. 

That's especially critical now. The federal Department of Transportation is expected to announce this week whether New York will get necessary funding to relieve traffic congestion. For months, the Bloomberg administration has been selling the benefits -- including cleaner air and less gridlock -- of charging a fee to use the city's busiest streets. But if people are to be persuaded to forget the car and use mass transportation, they'll need more than the financial disincentive of the proposed $8 fee for cars. 

At the very least, commuters will need to believe that there will be adequate numbers of express bus and ferry routes that do not now exist, and that subways will be dependable. The Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which runs mass transit, will also need to do a better job communicating with the public. Of all the indignities suffered last week, among the worst was feeling that no one cared enough to keep riders informed. It's past time to move the system into the 21st century, to figure out ways to send text messages to people who sign up for such a service, and to borrow ideas from other systems like the Paris Metro -- which is just about as old as the New York system, but offers riders electronic signage on platforms that informs them precisely when the next train will arrive. Parisians are thus disinclined to mob trains, knowing another is just behind. 

If Washington comes through, state and city elected leaders, including Gov. Eliot Spitzer, Mayor Michael Bloomberg and City Council Speaker Christine Quinn, will begin assembling a commission to come up with a plan that relieves gridlock. The inclination will be to load up the panel with the usual suspects. We hope they fight that urge, and include independent voices who can speak for New Yorkers who want a daily commute they can count on and timely information when things go wrong.


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## chris9

iampuking said:


> I love the New York subway, it has something so... New York about it.


By modern world standards, the esthetics are simply repulsive and there are difficulties throughout the system when it rains. Full of rats, but the cars are modern.


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## micro

chris9 said:


> By modern world standards, the esthetics are simply repulsive and there are difficulties throughout the system when it rains. Full of rats, but the cars are modern.


Even if New York Subway may have an overall air of repulsiveness to it, it also has a tradition of interesting station design and I definitely sense a recent attitude towards preserving the historic designs. There are also numerous examples of great modern works of arts in the stations. 

Subway Style: http://www.transitmuseumeducation.org/subwaystyle/launch.html


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## trainrover

I hope NYC can make it. Nowadays I keep hearing how pricy the place has finally become, so the sooner they can afford their improvements there, the better.

I'd cheer for NYC any day.


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## geoking66

chris9 said:


> By modern world standards, the esthetics are simply repulsive and there are difficulties throughout the system when it rains. Full of rats, but the cars are modern.


You have to consider that it's the fourth oldest subway in the world, after London, Budapset (I don't get it), and Boston, so you have to consider that it's going to be naturally detereorating. The problem is that they're spending money in the wrong places. Rather than constantly overbuying rolling stock that never seems to work properly or the same car made differently (R143 vs R160, basically the same thing), they need to improve the stations, mainly aesthetic. My biggest problem is the exposure of express tracks, it just looks so ugly. They could put up a fake wall or "arch" to make it look like the stations on the London Underground.


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## city_thing

What's wrong with Budapest being the second city to get a metro? Obviously they were ahead of their time!


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## Alargule

Budapest was the second most important city in the Austrian-Hungarian monarchy at the time - along the most powerful nations on the European mainland. The early opening of the subway, therefore, isn't that surprising as it may seem according to more recent political situations.


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## trainrover

geoking66 said:


> My biggest problem is the exposure of express tracks, it just looks so ugly. They could put up a fake wall or "arch" to make it look like the stations on the London Underground.


In addition to others' comments on the aesthetics underground there in NYC, I read (do sense) what you're getting at. But after a few times riding the trains underground there, I got used to it -- I dunno, something to do with some 'New York state of mind', I guess . . .


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## geoking66

city_thing said:


> What's wrong with Budapest being the second city to get a metro? Obviously they were ahead of their time!


I just never understood it.


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## Pallo_3

New York Subway is the best in the world
as it's the only one to have 24 hour services

if i had to choose between clean but awful service
and dirty but excellent service i would definitely go for the second choice


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## ADCS

geoking66 said:


> Rather than constantly overbuying rolling stock that never seems to work properly or the same car made differently (R143 vs R160, basically the same thing), they need to improve the stations, mainly aesthetic.


First of all, there's a very good reason there are separate R143 and R160 stocks. Former IRT lines (1 2 3 4 5 6 7) have smaller tunnels than former BMT/IND lines, and cannot support the same size of train as the rest of the system. Therefore, you have to build two different trainsets for the different systems.

Also, when you are in a city that has 8 million within the limits (most of them using the Subway at some point during a given year, a good portion daily), 20 million within the metropolitan area, using antiquated infrastructure (especially electrical systems) and still reeling from years of neglect (i.e. the 1970s), aesthetics are going to be the last priority on the system. Besides, the New Yorker's perspective is that it doesn't matter how rough around the edges it may be, as long as it works quickly and effectively.


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## leo_sh

micro said:


> Subway Style: http://www.transitmuseumeducation.org/subwaystyle/launch.html


The diashow is very nice.


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## beta29

Pallo_3 said:


> New York Subway is the best in the world
> as it's the only one to have 24 hour services
> if i had to choose between clean but awful service
> and dirty but excellent service i would definitely go for the second choice



No, there are other cities for example Berlin etc. which have 24 hour service


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## Third of a kind

in the bronx you can still see pieces of the el in certain places, like the ghost station beneath the 2 on gun hill


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## Don Omar

Welcoming the Access, Bracing for Change.









_A long-delayed Second Avenue subway may open up what has been a modest enclave of mom-and-pop stores and restaurants in Manhattan._

By ANNE BARNARD
Published: October 7, 2007
nytimes.com

To entice buyers to spend $1 million for one-bedroom apartments on the less glossy eastern edge of the Upper East Side, the builders of a shimmering glass tower going up at 91st Street and First Avenue advertise customized stone countertops, a private fitness center, “expansive sunrise and sunset views” — and the Second Avenue subway.

Now that construction crews have started work on the Second Avenue line after decades of delays, bullish real estate brokers and nervous neighborhood tenants alike expect *New York’s first new subway in 50 years* to join the market forces that are driving Park Avenue-style prices farther east and replacing quirky Hungarian shops with high-end chain stores.

Ending commuters’ long walk west to the Lexington Avenue subway will bring new cachet to addresses on Second Avenue and eastward — or at least that’s what developers and real estate brokers are betting. Among them are the builders at 91st and First, who point to *the subway’s expected opening in 2014* and boldly declare that their tower, christened the Azure, stands at “the heart of the Upper East Side.”

“That’s really been the aversion to that area, that it was so far from transportation,” said Chris Poore, a real estate agent with the Corcoran Group who uses the subway as a favorite talking point when he shows apartment hunters the Cielo, another high-rise of million-dollar condos, at 83rd Street and York Avenue. “People now see the value of moving further east, and what a good investment it is.”

But for many residents and business owners, the neighborhood’s reputation as a bit of a backwater has been one of its attractions: harder to get to, but cheaper and more intimate. Their attitudes veer between the optimistic and the elegiac: They are excited about the subway, but apprehensive about what the neighborhood could lose.

The subway is not the reason that high rents and high-rises have encroached; that has been going on since the 1980s. But some residents suspect the train line’s arrival could be the final step in the transformation of Yorkville and the rest of the eastern Upper East Side from a relatively modest enclave of mom-and-pop stores and restaurants to just another grid of luxury towers and national retailers.

Today, four- and five-story tenements, many rent-regulated, line avenues that show vestiges of Eastern European and German immigration. Many corner lots have sprouted glass towers. But along Second Avenue, old-fashioned businesses like the Heidelberg restaurant, a family-owned hardware store and sellers of Hungarian sausages and pastries jostle with shinier spots like Justin Timberlake’s new barbecue joint.

Next year, some local businesses and lower-income tenants will be forced to move to make way for new subway stations. They fear they will have to leave the neighborhood for good. Construction, which could take years, will strain many more businesses, including sidewalk cafes and restaurants that have given Second Avenue its vibrant streetscape and made it the heart of affordable night life on the Upper East Side.










“There’s going to be more banks and more chain stores and more high-rises with $2 million condos. There’s no more neighborhood,” said Carol Crnobori, who has run Mustang, a Southwestern-style restaurant on 85th and Second, for 14 years.

Sally Ardrey, 69, is one of the tenants the Metropolitan Transportation Authority must relocate because of the subway project. Even though she will be forced to move from her rent-stabilized apartment at 72nd and Second, she supports the subway. But she worries it will kill what little economic diversity remains. When she arrived in 1986, she said, for fancier Upper East Siders west of Third Avenue, “First Avenue might as well have been on Cape Cod.”

Many residents say they will believe in the subway when they see it. City officials first proposed it in the 1920s, to replace the elevated trains on Second and Third Avenues. Twice voters approved it. But funds earmarked in 1951 went instead to improve existing lines; a second bond issue in 1967 led to construction that halted during the city’s financial crisis in the 1970s.

Last year, voters approved a bond issue partly financing the first leg of the line, and the federal government has also committed money. *Projected to cost $4 billion and open in 2014, it will run down Second Avenue from 96th Street, stopping at 86th and 72nd Streets and then at 63rd Street and Lexington Avenue, where it will join existing tracks.* Someday, the line is to stretch down Second Avenue to the financial district. Transit officials will not venture to guess when.
/ 
Building crews will mostly tunnel underground, out of view. But to build the stations, they will dig up parts of the street. That means restaurants along swaths of Second Avenue, including from 82nd to 88th Streets and 70th to 74th Streets, will temporarily lose permits for cafes that jut onto the sidewalk. Authority officials do not yet know how long that will last.
/ 
Earlier, the area was not as prosperous as the rest of the East Side, but that is changing, Ms. Gutoff said. She expects the subway to further raise the value of retail and residential properties, like the four buildings on 71st and Second, a row of modest old tenements, that she is offering to investors in an estate sale.

And the fate of those buildings, with their rent-regulated tenants and shops like the cheap and beloved Afghan Kebab House? Within a decade, Ms. Gutoff said, a buyer could put up an 80,000-square-foot apartment tower, adding to the Upper East Side’s population boom.

That growth, which began long ago, is one reason the area needs a new train line despite the even higher rents it will bring, said State Senator Liz Krueger, who represents the district: “It’s a chicken-and-egg thing.”

(entire article at nytimes.com)


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## Don Omar




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## hkskyline

Have they considered a double-deck station to minimize space and the need for expropriation. Given how wide the street is, a double-deck station shouldn't take up more than the width of the street.


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## hkskyline

*After 45 Years, New York's Subway Chief Has Reached His Stop *
13 October 2007
New York Times

When he retires next month, Michael A. Lombardi will have spent 45 years working in the subway, rising from a $2.43-an-hour job as a machinist's helper to the top job in the system, as the senior vice president for subways at New York City Transit. 

He did a lot of things during those four and a half decades, but his most important contribution, in the eyes of many of his peers, is the role he played in wrenching the subway system out of the abyss that it had fallen into in the 1970s and early 1980s. 

''We went through this terrible, terrible period where nothing worked,'' said Mr. Lombardi, 63, a broad-shouldered man with a ready laugh and a silvery pompadour. ''Nothing worked. The trains didn't work, the doors didn't work. They were always smoking, they were always on fire, they were always late. It was incredible. It was the worst subway in the world.'' 

The solution that Mr. Lombardi championed seems like an obvious one today, but at the time it was revolutionary. Why not, he said, replace the key components of subway cars before they break down? 

The idea had originated in the 1960s with a mechanical engineer named Doug Tilton, who was, Mr. Lombardi said, ''our local in-house genius on subway cars.'' 

Mr. Tilton had cataloged dozens of subway car parts and calculated their useful life. But at the time there was neither the will nor the way for a complete rethinking of how subway cars were maintained. There was money, now and again, to buy new cars, but not for upkeep. 

''We just bought new cars and let them disintegrate,'' Mr. Lombardi said. ''Imagine that.'' 

In 1970, Mr. Lombardi was an instructor, training electricians and mechanics in subway car repair. He was in his late 20s and already he was something of a rising star. Mr. Tilton saw a kindred spirit. 

''He said to me, take this program,'' Mr. Lombardi recalled, ''put it in your desk drawer. You may make it to the top.'' 

Mr. Lombardi said that in those days most managers at the transit agency were not interested in new ideas from their employees. But Mr. Lombardi saw his chance in the late 1970s when he was assigned to work with an engineering consultant hired to tackle the problem of subway breakdowns. ''He had an attache case,'' Mr. Lombardi said. ''He was an outsider. They were going to listen to him.'' 

Together they promoted Mr. Tilton's idea and won the support of high-level transit officials. Mr. Lombardi said the city put up some seed money to get the program started. Then, in 1981, the state authorized a multibillion-dollar plan to improve the condition of the city's transit system, and the program received another boost. Today it is known as the Scheduled Maintenance System and has been extended to the bus fleet and copied by other transit agencies. Combined with the purchase of thousands of new subway cars, the impact has been remarkable. 

In 1979, Mr. Lombardi said, subway cars broke down, on average, every 4,800 miles traveled. Today, they average a breakdown every 149,000 miles. 

''It was the worst system on earth, and we're the leaders of the pack now,'' Mr. Lombardi said. 

Howard H. Roberts Jr., the president of New York City Transit, called the maintenance program Mr. Lombardi helped create ''maybe the greatest transit achievement of which I know.'' 

''What most people do is, they do what they've been taught,'' Mr. Roberts said. ''For Mike and a couple of his colleagues to literally transcend the established wisdom and hit upon the idea of starting to replace major components before they have caused mechanical problems, that really, from my point of view, makes his career extraordinary.'' 

There seem to be few aspects of the subway system that Mr. Lombardi has not touched. He helped develop a special kind of paint for subway cars that made it easier to wash off graffiti. He spurred changes in the way subway cars are designed. And he helped manage the evacuation of subway riders during blackouts and after the World Trade Center attack on Sept. 11, 2001. 

Mr. Lombardi was born in 1943 and grew up in East New York, Brooklyn. His father, John, worked in the subways for 31 years, starting as a conductor and eventually becoming a tower operator. His father retired in 1972. That was 10 years after Mr. Lombardi, at the age of 18, got his first subway job. 

In 2002, Mr. Lombardi was promoted to his current job, which gives him responsibility for the entire subway system. 

Two of Mr. Lombardi's children now work for the Metropolitan Transportation Authority as well. Mr. Lombardi is known for his wit (''I'm a wisecracker,'' he said), and when talking of his children's careers, he jokes that he believes in keeping nepotism in the family. 

His son Gregory, 46, has worked in the subway system for 27 years and is now the general superintendent of the Coney Island overhaul shop, a job Mr. Lombardi held in the mid-1980s. ''He's sitting in my old seat,'' Mr. Lombardi said. (''He's also stolen my joke book,'' he said.) His daughter Laurie, 36, is an assistant budget director for the transportation authority's capital construction corporation. Another daughter, Tracey, 33, is a nurse in a coronary care unit at a hospital in Southern California. 

Mr. Lombardi said he was retiring, in part, to spend more time with his wife, Alicia. For most of his career he has been on call 24 hours a day, and there were many times when the phone rang in the middle of the night. All these years, he said, the phone has been on his wife's side of the bed, so she has been awakened countless times. 

Sitting in his office at New York City Transit headquarters on lower Broadway, Mr. Lombardi projects an enthusiasm that brings to mind the teenager thrilled to get his first job in the subway and the youthful manager searching for ways to fix a broken system. He recounted a conversation with a younger colleague who was unhappy with his job and was looking forward to an early retirement. It was an attitude that Mr. Lombardi could not understand. 

''I'm saying to myself, I'll swap with you today,'' he said. ''I'll do it all over again.''


----------



## Taylorhoge

Yeah Viand cafe closed down already luckily theyre is one more on madison


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## hkskyline

Have other cities sunk subway vehicles as well?


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## officedweller

Very timely article - Last week CSI: NY had a storyline that involved the sunken subway car reef.


----------



## hkskyline

*Subway "surfer" killed in New York *
Tue Oct 16, 10:53 AM ET
AFP

A 21-year-old man was killed playing the dangerous game of "surfing" atop a moving subway train, from which he was thrown to his death, local media reported Tuesday.

After his feat of daring, the man slipped and fell onto the tracks where he was killed Monday, media said quoting police.

In 2003, three people including a 14-year-old were killed trying similar stunts.

Authorities had launched a campaign aimed at deterring youths from taking such risks on the subway, urging them to surf the Internet instead.


----------



## webeagle12

hkskyline said:


> *Subway "surfer" killed in New York *
> Tue Oct 16, 10:53 AM ET
> AFP
> 
> A 21-year-old man was killed playing the dangerous game of "surfing" atop a moving subway train, from which he was thrown to his death, local media reported Tuesday.
> 
> After his feat of daring, the man slipped and fell onto the tracks where he was killed Monday, media said quoting police.
> 
> In 2003, three people including a 14-year-old were killed trying similar stunts.
> 
> Authorities had launched a campaign aimed at deterring youths from taking such risks on the subway, urging them to surf the Internet instead.


if he was that stupid, he deserves it, one retard less on this planet


----------



## hkskyline

*Disoriented subway riders get direction*
October 17, 2007
AP

After emerging from the labyrinth of New York City's subway system, riders often feel they could use a compass to navigate the world above.

Now transit officials are providing one, in the form of large stickers pointing out north, south, east and west and the nearest streets in each direction. The city is testing the decals at four midtown stations, with the idea of installing permanent ones in various places if the response is good.

Subway stations often have multiple exits, with signs specifying the cross streets at which a given exit is located. But even experienced riders sometimes have trouble figuring out which way they're facing once they get to the street.

"Not a single person, native New Yorker or visitor, can truthfully claim that they have not, at least once, been confused as to which direction to walk when emerging from a subway station," city Transportation Commissioner Janette Sadik-Khan said as officials showcased the new stickers Tuesday.

The Grand Central Partnership, a business group dedicated to improving and promoting the area near Grand Central Terminal, is paying $15,000 for the compass-sticker tryout, President Alfred C. Cerullo III said.

Meanwhile, transit officials are working on another effort to make the subway system more inviting. About 250 additional workers have been hired to clean it, and plans call for adding 100 more, NYC Transit President Howard Roberts Jr. said. The $7.6 million initiative comes after many riders gave the system bad grades for cleanliness in recent surveys.

Almost 5 million passengers ride the subways on an average weekday. The 660-mile system has 468 stations under and above city streets.


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## Tcmetro

Go to the Subways page at www.forgotten-ny.com. They have information about the abandon tunnels, and abandon Els, including pictures.


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## hkskyline

*2 NYC subway lines to get boosts in service *
18 October 2007

NEW YORK (AP) - A busy subway line is slated to get what transit officials say is one of the biggest boosts to service in recent years. 

Metropolitan Transportation Authority chief executive Elliot Sander says the agency is adding 23 new round-trip runs per weekday on the L line. Some 30 or more round trips are being added on weekends. 

Meanwhile, the 7 line is getting 10 more round trip each weekday. 

The additional service is set to start in December. Together, the increases will cost about $2.6 million a year. 

The L travels between parts of Brooklyn and Manhattan, and the 7 between areas in Queens and Manhattan. Ridership on both lines has surged in recent years, and passengers have complained about crowding on recent surveys.


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## micro

webeagle12 said:


> if he was that stupid, he deserves it, one retard less on this planet


In a way, yes, but a subway's purpose is not to filter out the retards. Every single subway accident is bad news.


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## geoking66

I'm sad about one thing from the Second Avenue Subway, it'll force relocation of my favourite restaurant, Tony's. Otherwise, I'll be able to take rail transport literally from the door of my house in suburban NJ to the door of Tony's when it's done.


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## hkskyline

*NY lawmakers urge transit agency to scrap plans for fare hike *
17 October 2007

NEW YORK (AP) - Lawmakers and transit advocates want to take a proposed fare hike in New York City off the table. 

Four state senators wrote the Metropolitan Transportation Authority Wednesday asking to scrap the plan to raise subway fares and tolls next year. They joined transit advocates at a news conference to urge the MTA to take the proposal off its board agenda for December. 

The MTA is looking at two ways to raise fares; both proposals raise bus and subway fares from $2 to $2.25, but one would add a new pay-per-ride MetroCard that lowers fares if riders travel during off-peak periods. Toll increases are also planned for the city's bridges and tunnels. 

The agency is holding public forums next month on the proposed hikes.


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## hkskyline

*West Side subway extension plan shrinks, but may be set to start *
20 October 2007

NEW YORK (AP) - Transit officials say they're ready to roll on a subway line extension designed to catalyze a major redevelopment on Manhattan's West Side. But they are scrubbing plans for one of the two new stations in order to save money. 

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority's board is expected to vote next week on spending $1.1 million to start digging a tunnel to stretch the 7 subway line west from Times Square. The project was thrown into question earlier this year over concern about cost overruns. 

The current plan calls for a new station at West 34th Street and 11th Avenue. But it no longer includes a "shell" of another station at West 41st Street. 

The city has agreed to pay up to $2.1 billion for the project. It is a key component of a plan to transform an expanse of MTA-owned rail yards into business and residential hub.


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## hkskyline

*NY midtown subway link may cost $1.4 bln too much *

NEW YORK, Oct 19 (Reuters) - The cost of New York City's new No. 7 midtown subway link may run as much as $1.4 billion over budget, imperiling the biggest U.S. mass transit agency's other important projects, a state Assemblyman said on Friday. 

New York City pledged only $2.1 billion for the subway extension, which will push the line west from Times Square to 11th Ave. and then south to 34th St. 

Mayor Michael Bloomberg says the link is vital to open Manhattan's West Side to development. But he and the agency that will build it are sparring over its spiraling cost. 

Democratic Assemblyman Richard Brodsky, who oversees the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, said in a statement that its leaders again told the city on Thursday that "any costs or cost overruns associated with the No. 7 line extension are exclusively the responsibility of New York City." 

A city spokesman was not immediately available to comment. In the past, New York City officials have said the Metropolitan Transportation Authority would have little incentive to clamp down on costs if it knows the city will reimburse it. 

The authority, which runs the city's subway, bus and commuting lines and several bridges and tunnels, says it is so cash-strapped that by next year it must raise fares and tolls enough to boost its revenues 6.5 percent. 

Next week the MTA, which has nearly 8 million daily riders, is expected to approve the first big contract for the Times Square subway link. A consortium of companies, the same ones the authority chose to build a new Second Ave. subway for Manhattan's Upper East side, are among the top contenders. 

Transit advocates say a 10th Ave. station is critical for the line's success. 

Jeremy Soffin, an MTA spokesman, said: "We're on track to meet the $2.1 billion budget, but it does not currently include a station at 10th Avenue." 

Assemblyman Brodsky noted that even the authority says delays could add $250 million to the station's cost. 

The MTA also believes the new subway link "is critical to development of the Far West Side, including our own rail yards," Soffin added. 

The authority is in the midst of picking a developer for the rail yards, which could get a top price because it is so hard to put together big tracts of land in Manhattan. 

The No. 7 link's cost could soar by as much as one-third, partly because the authority "now concedes" that the first contract, mainly for tunneling, will cost $1.15 billion to $1.35 billion, the Assemblyman said. 

In addition, he said, the MTA has not revised four-year-old estimates for inflation, citing its $600 million forecast for track, electrical and signaling systems, and air conditioning, and a $250 million estimate for engineering and insurance.


----------



## geoking66

hkskyline said:


> Have they considered a double-deck station to minimize space and the need for expropriation. Given how wide the street is, a double-deck station shouldn't take up more than the width of the street.


Double-decker stations don't work (except for Rosslyn and Pentagon on the Washington Metro) because they are in actuality much more expensive and they just don't look good. It's much easier and quicker to build an island platform and two tracks flanking it on either side rather than building two platforms but having one track for each, not to mention it's twice as deep.


----------



## trainrover

hkskyline said:


> *Disoriented subway riders get direction*


Wow, and this coming from grid-orientated dwellers? Too funny. Maybe those signify some kind of commuter who forget the sun's traveling the sky left to right up where they live....looking upward must be a pain in the neck there.

Be thankful for, e.g., their mass of one-way streets there. I'm sure that docket could be spent better.


----------



## Vancouverite

I think it is completely valid to request a fully accessible transit system. However there has to be an understanding that it will take decades to achieve and cost many, many times more than most people would expect. The NYC subway system, and I would imagine virtually all other systems built until the 1970s or even 1980s, were simply not designed to accommodate wheelchairs. That isn't a pejorative statement, but simply fact. The same is true for the lack of climate control and fire suppression infrastructure in most of these old stations. 

In Canada both Montreal and Toronto's old subway stations are wholly wheelchair inaccessible while Vancouver's entire transit system will be fully wheelchair accessible by early 2008. We've spent hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars, if not in excess of a billion, renovating stations and purchasing an entirely new fleet of wheelchair accessible buses, including a cool quarter billion in the last couple years to buy a new fleet of electric trolley buses. 

The first line of our rapid transit system was built in the early 1980s and even then all of the stations but one were designed to be fully wheelchair accessible. This last one was upgraded to be so in the last year or two. Having a quadriplegic mayor in a wheelchair certainly helps ensure everybody adheres to our accessibility laws. The result is that we are about to have one of the only fully accessible transit systems in the world. 

However our transit system is comparatively small by world-city standards and because of its age we exist in an entirely different paradigm than the New York, London, and Paris of the world. We were still nothing but an untouched coastal rain forest when the first trains began running in the London Underground and we were only building our first streetcar lines and finishing the trans-continental railway when New York's subways and el trains were already long established icons.

The ADA and OSHA guidelines are making the world demonstrably better for disabled and handicapped people. If lawsuits help change the culture and built environment then so be it. Challenging the law and pressing for adherence is how most things change. I applaud NYC for having a forty-station upgrade program underway. That's more stations than are in our entire rapid transit system in Vancouver for the time being (16 more in two years!). 

Give it time and keep working on it. I am certain it is appreciated by those with special mobility needs, the elderly, mothers with strollers, and people with luggage. In fact accessibility should be viewed as offering ease of access for everybody while walking the social compact to ensure nobody is excluded.


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## hkskyline

*Timing of a Proposed M.T.A. Fare Increase Should Come as No Surprise *
5 November 2007
The New York Times

Officials at the Metropolitan Transportation Authority have tried to frame their proposal for higher subway, bus and commuter rail fares as a departure from past increases. They say it should be seen as part of a long-term financial plan, with a fare increase next year to be followed by an increase in state and city subsidies down the road. 

But if the fare does go up next year, it will share at least one trait with most other fare increases of the last four decades: It will fall into a well-worn spot in the political calendar by coming near the beginning of a governor's term. 

The transportation authority was created in 1968 as a semi-independent body tied most closely to the governor's office. Since then, subway and bus fares have gone up 12 times, and half of those increases occurred during the first 13 months of a governor's four-year term. 

Each time a new governor was elected, a fare increase was approved within a year of his taking office. 

Next month, less than a year after Gov. Eliot Spitzer's inauguration, the authority's board is expected to vote on a proposal that would increase the base subway and bus fare to $2.25, from $2. 

''It's pretty Basic Politics 101,'' said Michael McKeon, a political consultant and a former communications director for Gov. George E. Pataki. ''It's better to get the tough stuff out of the way as early as you can.'' 

Former Mayor Edward I. Koch, a veteran of several fare battles, said it was not surprising that politicians would want to raise fares early in their term, long before an election year. 

''You don't want to have an angry public with an increased fare going to the polls with that as the No. 1 issue,'' he said. 

The authority is holding a series of public hearings on the fares proposal, including two at 6 tonight -- one at the Marriott at the Brooklyn Bridge in Brooklyn, and one at the Palisades Center in West Nyack. 

It has often been said that the authority was created to shield governors and mayors from direct responsibility for poor train service and rising fares. But the fig leaf only covers so much. 

As Mr. Koch put it, ''No matter that the M.T.A. is an independent agency, everybody believes that both the governor and the mayor have enormous input into what the nominees appointed by them will ultimately do.'' 

The governor appoints the authority's chairman and five others to the 17-member board. Four members are appointed by the governor on the recommendation of the mayor of New York City and one member each on the recommendations of the Nassau, Suffolk and Westchester county executives. 

In addition, four board members, who collectively cast a single vote, are picked by the chief executives of Rockland, Orange, Dutchess and Putnam Counties. 

Mr. Pataki, who arguably exerted more direct control over the authority than any of his predecessors, was governor during three fare increases. The first one, with the subway and bus fare rising to $1.50 from $1.25, occurred in November 1995, during his first year in office. 

A former Pataki aide who was involved in discussions over that fare increase explained the thinking of the governor's staff. 

''If you raise the fare early, then you have time for people to see what the benefits are of raising the fare,'' said the former aide, who asked not to be named because the aide still works with state government. ''Where if you raise it late, all people do is get the shock of raising the fare.'' 

But some officials said politics was not part of the calculation when they pushed for fare hikes. E. Virgil Conway, whom Mr. Pataki appointed as chairman of the authority in 1995, said the fare hike that year was needed to stabilize the authority's finances. 

Richard Ravitch, who was considered one of the most independent of the authority's chairmen, pointed out that the first time he raised the fare, in June 1980, it broke a promise by Gov. Hugh L. Carey that the fare would not go up. ''I didn't make decisions on the basis of who was running for what, when,'' Mr. Ravitch said in an interview last week. 

Mr. Pataki was re-elected twice, in 1998 and 2002. He spent part of the campaign in 2002 side-stepping charges from his opponent, H. Carl McCall, that another increase was looming. 

Mr. Pataki won re-election on Nov. 5. Two weeks later, the authority's chairman, Peter S. Kalikow, proposed an increase in the fare. The following May, the fare rose to $2. In 2005, the cost of unlimited-ride MetroCards rose but the base fare remained unchanged. 

The authority, under Mr. Kalikow, ultimately proposed a system of regular, modest fare increases every two years. But a proposed increase slated for 2007 -- an election year -- was canceled, partly because the authority was running a large surplus. The move had the added effect of putting off a decision on the fare until a new governor was sitting in Albany. 

Elliot G. Sander, the chief executive of the authority, who was appointed by Mr. Spitzer, said that the political calendar did not affect his proposal for a fare increase. 

''That has not been a factor for the M.T.A. in preparing its financial plan,'' Mr. Sander said. 

His proposal also calls for a series of regular, inflation-indexed fare increases every two years, with the first of those proposed for 2010, when Gov. Spitzer would be up for re-election. 

''We are proposing to do it twice in the governor's term, and so that does not follow what has occurred historically,'' Mr. Sander said. 

The authority says it needs more money because its expenditures, including debt payments and employee health care costs, are rising faster than its income. Mr. Sander has described his proposal as a balanced approach because it also calls on the state and city to increase their annual subsidies to the authority's operating budget by a total of about $600 million, beginning in 2010. 

But a group of State Assembly members have questioned how balanced that approach really is, saying the authority should at the very least ask for additional state funding to begin next year. 

Richard L. Brodsky, a Democratic assemblyman from Westchester County, said that the current fare debate has deviated from the ritualized script of previous years. In the past, the authority would often threaten to raise the fare as a way to force the state to come up with more funding. While an increase was rarely avoided altogether, the result was often a smaller increase coupled with additional state funding. 

''What's missing this time isn't the pressure to raise the fare,'' Mr. Brodsky said. ''What's missing is the M.T.A.'s genteel blackmail, saying to the political structures that in the end an affordable fare is a political decision.'' 

Mr. Brodsky said that politicians and officials at the authority had lost sight of their duty to keep the fare affordable. 

He added, ''Isn't the fare a last resort? Or is the fare a first resort when a new governor is elected?''


----------



## hkskyline

*NYC subway train strikes barrier in downtown Manhattan *
6 November 2007

NEW YORK (AP) - New York City transit officials say a subway train has hit a bumper block at a downtown Manhattan station. The M train, headed from Brooklyn, struck the block at the end of the line at the Chambers Street station. 

Fire Battalion Chief Robert Norcross says there were no passengers aboard the train, and no injuries have been reported. 

Norcross said it appeared least one car of the train may have gone off the tracks. Authorities at the scene were discussing the possibility of shutting off power while the problem was fixed. 

NYC Transit spokesman Charles Seaton said the accident happened at about 10:55 a.m. Tuesday.


----------



## hkskyline

*NY subway operator seeks firm to provide text messages, e-mails to NYC commuters *
7 November 2007

NEW YORK (AP) - The agency that runs the nation's largest mass transit system has started its search for an outside company to provide subway riders with e-mails and text messages about emergencies, service delays, rerouting and other disruptions. 

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority's announcement Tuesday comes three months after a storm dumped 3.5 inches of rain on the region during a morning rush and caused floods that shut down much of the subway system and portions of the Metro-North Railroad and Long Island Rail Road commuter lines. During the Aug. 8 storm, commuters were left with little to no information. 

The following month, MTA officials issued a report that was under way before the storm outlining a multimillion-dollar plan to prevent such rush-hour washouts. Measures in the report included equipping station agents with BlackBerrys, redesigning some station entrances to ward off water, providing the system's managers with better forecasting equipment and providing subway riders with e-mail and text-message alerts. 

MTA officials said they hope to contract with a firm to provide up to 1 million subscribers with the alerts by next spring. The MTA said its in-house technology can't handle that many subscribers and would take too long to send out time-sensitive information. Because the bidding is competitive, MTA officials declined to say how much money was budgeted for the contract or how many proposals it had received since last Thursday, when they started accepting them. 

Through e-mail accounts, personal digital assistants, cell phones and other handheld electronic devices, commuters would receive information about planned disruptions such as scheduled track work and unexpected problems such as fires, flooding and other emergencies that would cause delays or rerouting. The system would cover the LIRR, Metro-North and New York City Transit, the MTA said. 

"The flooding on August 8 made it clear that timely text and e-mail alerts are necessary, and I am confident we can find a third-party provider with the processing power to carry this out," said Elliot G. Sander, the MTA's executive director. "It will no doubt be the largest such customer service alert system in the nation." 

New Jersey Transit offers passengers alerts by pager, cell phone and e-mail about service updates, construction advisories and delays of more than 15 minutes. PATH train riders can get PATHAlerts. 

The Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority sends eAlerts to any of its 720,000 rail riders for delays of at least 10 minutes with an explanation, such as, "Pentagon Station closed due to fire," spokeswoman Candace Smith said. Riders can sign up for one or more rail lines or the whole system, she said. 

In California, the San Francisco Bay Area Rapid Transit District next year plans to unveil a system allowing its 370,000 daily users to sign up to receive information including delays, maintenance projects and parking via e-mail, text messaging and video, spokesman Linton Johnson said. The information can also be downloaded onto MP3 devices. Commuters can pick and choose the type of information they want to receive, he said. 

The Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority is developing a plan to provide its average 1.1 million daily commuters information to their wireless devices, spokesman Joe Pesaturo said. 

In New York, the Straphangers Campaign, a riders' advocacy group, has lauded some of the MTA's planned measures. 

In another step to improve communication, the MTA plans to wire the subway system's 277 underground stations for cell phone service. 

Others have begun implementing widespread e-mail blasts for emergencies. In September, St. John's University officials were praised for alerting students and staff through a new text-messaging system that an armed man was on campus. The campus was locked down, and no one was injured. Charges against the man, who was a student, were later dropped after he was found mentally unfit to stand trial.


----------



## hkskyline

*New York subway rescue hero and his lawyer settle lawsuits against each other *
6 November 2007

NEW YORK (AP) - A commuter hailed as a hero for saving a teenager who fell in front of a subway train has settled with his own lawyer over lawsuits they filed against each other. 

Wesley Autrey Sr. had accused lawyer Diane L. Kleiman and her business partner Marc Antonio Esposito, of Marco Antonio Productions, of having him sign an unfair contract that gave them most of any money he earned because of his fame. 

Kleiman, meanwhile, sued Autrey for legal fees and compensation for damage to her reputation. She denied she cheated the 50-year-old construction worker and said he made her look like a money-hungry crook. 

The agreement, called a stipulation, voided all agreements, whether oral or in writing, involving Autrey, Kleiman and Esposito and ended their dueling lawsuits. State Supreme Court Justice Bernard J. Fried signed off on the stipulation and filed it last week. 

Autrey caught the public's attention Jan. 2, 2007, after a 19-year-old film student had a seizure and fell onto the subway tracks at a Manhattan station. Autrey, on the platform with other commuters as a train approached, leaped down and pulled the teen into the foot-deep drainage trough between the tracks and lay on top of him as the train passed over their heads. 

He and the student remained under the train for about 20 minutes while workers shut off the electrified third rail.


----------



## hkskyline

*NYC subway worker shoved onto tracks, injured *
9 November 2007

NEW YORK (AP) - A subway worker was hurt when someone pushed him onto the tracks at Grand Central Terminal, police said. 

Investigators were searching for a suspect early Friday. The worker had been treated and released from a local hospital, New York City Transit spokesman Paul Fleuranges said. 

The motorman was on duty and waiting for his train on the 42nd Street shuttle platform Thursday night, police said. Investigators weren't sure why the attacker came up behind him and shoved him. 

The worker wasn't hit by a train, but police said he injured his left arm, back and legs as he fell from the platform. His identity wasn't released.


----------



## geoking66

Does anyone know where I can find annual or average weekday ridership for individual NYC subway stations?


----------



## hkskyline

geoking66 said:


> Does anyone know where I can find annual or average weekday ridership for individual NYC subway stations?


From the MTA website I only see system-wide performance indicators :
http://www.mta.info/mta/ind-perform/per-nyct.htm


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## geoking66

I found an Excel sheet (and I huge one at that) that has every station's ridership from its opening.


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## hkskyline

*Skanska says wins NY subway order worth $400 mln *

STOCKHOLM, Nov 9 (Reuters) - Swedish construction firm Skanska said on Friday it expected to receive an order to extend a New York subway line worth about $400
million. 

"According to MTA New York City Transit, Skanska will be awarded the contract for an extension of the 7 Subway Line in the next few weeks," the company said in a statement. 

Skanska said the contract was expected to amount to $1.14 billion or 7.8 billion Swedish crowns, of which Skanska's share was 35 percent. 

"When the contract has been signed, $400 million, approximately 2.75 billion crowns, will be included in order bookings for the fourth quarter," it said.


----------



## IU

^^
This is how the alignment of the *Line 7* extension will look like - 











MTA has around 9 months to decide whether to include a $450 million shell of a station @41st street and 10th Ave for future use.


----------



## iampuking

Is there a subway map with the "Second Avenue" line on it?


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## IU

^
The best map I could find of the 2nd Ave line on the existing system-


----------



## iampuking

Ahh thanks, do the "Q" line is an amalgamation of an existing line to the new section and the "T" is the entire new section, am I right?

Do you know anything about the design features, when it will open and how much it'll cost? I've looked on wikipedia but there isn't much tbh.


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## sfgadv02

There's a whole section regarding the Second Ave. line @ www.mta.info


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## IU

iampuking said:


> Ahh thanks, do the "Q" line is an amalgamation of an existing line to the new section and the "T" is the entire new section, am I right?


The Q Line currently goes up only till 57th street and 7th avenue as you see in the map. There are plans to extend this line east to meet the U/C 2nd Avenue at 64th street and run the Q train all the way upto 125th street along the 2nd avenue line.

The Q train will use the existing subway line in Central Park which is not used for passenger services. Since stations are not financially viable in Central Park, a station will be constructed on 63rd and Lexington Avenue to ensure transfer with the F subway line. 



> Do you know anything about the design features, when it will open and how much it'll cost? I've looked on wikipedia but there isn't much tbh.


I read somewhere that there might be platform glass doors in all the stations.

Here's a render of a station from *DMJM Harris's website(they are designing the subway line)*










Phase I from 63rd-96th street will cost $333 million and will open in 2014 (not a typo)


----------



## IU

Here's a render of the 72nd street station entrance -


----------



## IU

Found some more -





















from the economist-


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## Vancouverite

Surely the 2nd Ave Subway stations will have elevators. I don't see any in the station entrance renders.


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## iampuking

Is it going to be built via the cut-and-cover method or by TBMs?


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## hkskyline

Second Avenue Subway project : http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=114525


----------



## hkskyline

*Don't Rush to a Fare Hike *
13 November 2007
The New York Times

Since the summer, New York's Metropolitan Transportation Authority has been trying earnestly to make its case for increasing fares. The needs of the system are overwhelming and, even though the M.T.A. is looking at a $1 billion surplus, substantial deficits are projected starting in 2009. The authority's chief executive, Lee Sander, has no choice but to find a way to fill the hole. 

That said, the M.T.A. is wrong to try to solve its problems primarily on the backs of financially burdened riders. It should first demand help from the state and city, which have shortchanged mass transit for years. 

As part of its long-term budget, the authority wants to raise the base price of a bus or subway ride every two years. And because -- incredibly -- the MetroCard machines in subway stations cannot make change for a quarter, the authority says the minimum increase has to be 25 cents. The first increase, which could take effect in March if the M.T.A. board approves it, would raise the $2 fare to $2.25. An alternate plan would raise fares for peak hours and lower them off-peak. 

While no one denies that the system needs financial help, the timing of the fare proposal is off. The next state budget is expected to be prepared by next April, and that is when the M.T.A. should work to extract more aid from Gov. Eliot Spitzer and the Legislature. Dozens of lawmakers -- urged on by Assemblyman Richard Brodsky of Westchester -- have pledged to fight for additional money. The M.T.A. should be encouraging them, and pushing Mr. Spitzer to do his part. 

The rush to a fare increase could also help to subvert Mayor Michael Bloomberg's congestion pricing plan, which Albany must act on by the end of March. If congestion pricing -- which calls for a fee to drive into parts of Manhattan -- is approved, it should generate a considerable amount of money for mass transit. 

The M.T.A. is dealing with real money problems, including rising pension and labor costs, service upgrades and major projects like the Second Avenue subway line. But New York riders already pay too high a share of the system's costs, more than in other major cities.


----------



## IU

Vancouverite said:


> Surely the 2nd Ave Subway stations will have elevators. I don't see any in the station entrance renders.


Whats that vertical box behind the entrance? That might be an elevator. 



iampuking said:


> Is it going to be built via the cut-and-cover method or by TBMs?


63rd-96th street will be constructed using TBMs. Right now the utilities are being shifted and the TBM will arrive around May-June next year.


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## iampuking

indiansunite said:


> ^
> The best map I could find of the 2nd Ave line on the existing system-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ]


I'm wondering why the line at the northernmost point veers off to the left... Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't that green line overcrowded? Surely extending the "T" line to connect with one of it's branches would relieve overcrowding and get rid of the bottleneck?


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## micro

Nice entrance structures!


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## Svartmetall

I like all the station entrances except the one set into the building. Why does the glass have to jut out like that? It makes the building at street level look silly. (Top right just in case anyone isn't clear)


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## hkskyline

*After 45 Years, New York's Subway Chief Has Reached His Stop *
13 October 2007
The New York Times

When he retires next month, Michael A. Lombardi will have spent 45 years working in the subway, rising from a $2.43-an-hour job as a machinist's helper to the top job in the system, as the senior vice president for subways at New York City Transit. 

He did a lot of things during those four and a half decades, but his most important contribution, in the eyes of many of his peers, is the role he played in wrenching the subway system out of the abyss that it had fallen into in the 1970s and early 1980s. 

''We went through this terrible, terrible period where nothing worked,'' said Mr. Lombardi, 63, a broad-shouldered man with a ready laugh and a silvery pompadour. ''Nothing worked. The trains didn't work, the doors didn't work. They were always smoking, they were always on fire, they were always late. It was incredible. It was the worst subway in the world.'' 

The solution that Mr. Lombardi championed seems like an obvious one today, but at the time it was revolutionary. Why not, he said, replace the key components of subway cars before they break down? 

The idea had originated in the 1960s with a mechanical engineer named Doug Tilton, who was, Mr. Lombardi said, ''our local in-house genius on subway cars.'' 

Mr. Tilton had cataloged dozens of subway car parts and calculated their useful life. But at the time there was neither the will nor the way for a complete rethinking of how subway cars were maintained. There was money, now and again, to buy new cars, but not for upkeep. 

''We just bought new cars and let them disintegrate,'' Mr. Lombardi said. ''Imagine that.'' 

In 1970, Mr. Lombardi was an instructor, training electricians and mechanics in subway car repair. He was in his late 20s and already he was something of a rising star. Mr. Tilton saw a kindred spirit. 

''He said to me, take this program,'' Mr. Lombardi recalled, ''put it in your desk drawer. You may make it to the top.'' 

Mr. Lombardi said that in those days most managers at the transit agency were not interested in new ideas from their employees. But Mr. Lombardi saw his chance in the late 1970s when he was assigned to work with an engineering consultant hired to tackle the problem of subway breakdowns. ''He had an attache case,'' Mr. Lombardi said. ''He was an outsider. They were going to listen to him.'' 

Together they promoted Mr. Tilton's idea and won the support of high-level transit officials. Mr. Lombardi said the city put up some seed money to get the program started. Then, in 1981, the state authorized a multibillion-dollar plan to improve the condition of the city's transit system, and the program received another boost. Today it is known as the Scheduled Maintenance System and has been extended to the bus fleet and copied by other transit agencies. Combined with the purchase of thousands of new subway cars, the impact has been remarkable. 

In 1979, Mr. Lombardi said, subway cars broke down, on average, every 4,800 miles traveled. Today, they average a breakdown every 149,000 miles. 

''It was the worst system on earth, and we're the leaders of the pack now,'' Mr. Lombardi said. 

Howard H. Roberts Jr., the president of New York City Transit, called the maintenance program Mr. Lombardi helped create ''maybe the greatest transit achievement of which I know.'' 

''What most people do is, they do what they've been taught,'' Mr. Roberts said. ''For Mike and a couple of his colleagues to literally transcend the established wisdom and hit upon the idea of starting to replace major components before they have caused mechanical problems, that really, from my point of view, makes his career extraordinary.'' 

There seem to be few aspects of the subway system that Mr. Lombardi has not touched. He helped develop a special kind of paint for subway cars that made it easier to wash off graffiti. He spurred changes in the way subway cars are designed. And he helped manage the evacuation of subway riders during blackouts and after the World Trade Center attack on Sept. 11, 2001. 

Mr. Lombardi was born in 1943 and grew up in East New York, Brooklyn. His father, John, worked in the subways for 31 years, starting as a conductor and eventually becoming a tower operator. His father retired in 1972. That was 10 years after Mr. Lombardi, at the age of 18, got his first subway job. 

In 2002, Mr. Lombardi was promoted to his current job, which gives him responsibility for the entire subway system. 

Two of Mr. Lombardi's children now work for the Metropolitan Transportation Authority as well. Mr. Lombardi is known for his wit (''I'm a wisecracker,'' he said), and when talking of his children's careers, he jokes that he believes in keeping nepotism in the family. 

His son Gregory, 46, has worked in the subway system for 27 years and is now the general superintendent of the Coney Island overhaul shop, a job Mr. Lombardi held in the mid-1980s. ''He's sitting in my old seat,'' Mr. Lombardi said. (''He's also stolen my joke book,'' he said.) His daughter Laurie, 36, is an assistant budget director for the transportation authority's capital construction corporation. Another daughter, Tracey, 33, is a nurse in a coronary care unit at a hospital in Southern California. 

Mr. Lombardi said he was retiring, in part, to spend more time with his wife, Alicia. For most of his career he has been on call 24 hours a day, and there were many times when the phone rang in the middle of the night. All these years, he said, the phone has been on his wife's side of the bed, so she has been awakened countless times. 

Sitting in his office at New York City Transit headquarters on lower Broadway, Mr. Lombardi projects an enthusiasm that brings to mind the teenager thrilled to get his first job in the subway and the youthful manager searching for ways to fix a broken system. He recounted a conversation with a younger colleague who was unhappy with his job and was looking forward to an early retirement. It was an attitude that Mr. Lombardi could not understand. 

''I'm saying to myself, I'll swap with you today,'' he said. ''I'll do it all over again.''


----------



## IU

iampuking said:


> I'm wondering why the line at the northernmost point veers off to the left... Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't that green line overcrowded? Surely extending the "T" line to connect with one of it's branches would relieve overcrowding and get rid of the bottleneck?


Don't ask me..ask MTA about the reason for the merger with the green line. :colgate:

Plus construction from 96th to 125th streets will only start in 2014. By then MTA will realize that it would be better and wiser to go straight up to the Bronx where it'll be all good in da hood. :gunz:

Connecting to one of the green branches wouldn't be a nice idea as it would then serve only 1 of the 3 northern green routes. MTA thinks that it'll be better to terminate the line where commuters will get more options of choosing a line to reach their destination.



Svartmetall said:


> I like all the station entrances except the one set into the building. Why does the glass have to jut out like that? It makes the building at street level look silly. (Top right just in case anyone isn't clear)


The glass jutting out is probably to give the subway line the oomph factor


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## IU

here are more renders. Albeit a little too small, they still give a idea of what's in store for NY































*Different phases of construction of the Second Ave Line -*


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## Gil

indiansunite said:


> Don't ask me..ask MTA about the reason for the merger with the green line. :colgate:
> 
> Plus construction from 96th to 125th streets will only start in 2014. By then MTA will realize that it would be better and wiser to go straight up to the Bronx where it'll be all good in da hood. :gunz:
> 
> Connecting to one of the green branches wouldn't be a nice idea as it would then serve only 1 of the 3 northern green routes. MTA thinks that it'll be better to terminate the line where commuters will get more options of choosing a line to reach their destination.


If you look at the map, the 125 Av. station will connect with all three of the Lexington Av. (green-4/5/6) lines. I'm guessing at this point they'd try and bleed some of the traffic from the Bronx who are headed further down to Manhattan. Running the Q/T line into the Bronx would incur the cost of crossing the Harlem River either by bridge or tunnel.










In the far long term, would it be possible to extend the T further to South Ferry or along Wall/Rector St. to Battery Park. That'd tie into the Rector Connector that the MTA's been touting, plus it'd give a cross-town route downtown (not that it's really needed as it's a lot narrower than Midtown).


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## ADCS

iampuking said:


> I'm wondering why the line at the northernmost point veers off to the left... Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't that green line overcrowded? Surely extending the "T" line to connect with one of it's branches would relieve overcrowding and get rid of the bottleneck?


You can't really see it there, but that's about where it would cross the Harlem River, crossing into the Bronx. I don't think there's a need for another Bronx line right now, but I'm sure expansion infrastructure will be placed at the end before the curve.


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## micro

Svartmetall said:


> I like all the station entrances except the one set into the building. Why does the glass have to jut out like that? It makes the building at street level look silly. (Top right just in case anyone isn't clear)


I like it. Looks funny and makes it easily recognizable as a subway entrance instead of camouflageing it.


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## Tcmetro

^^ Nice! I like how some of them blend into storefronts. It is always cool to have standalone enterances, too. Makes the street seem more lively.


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## IU

*Sunken NYC subway cars could rest with fishes off resort*

OCEAN CITY -- If enough funds are raised, the Ocean City Reef Foundation may drop 40 or more old New York City subway cars off the coast of Ocean City by summer 2008 to create artificial reefs.

"Ten years ago we were approached by the city of New York about subway cars," said Greg Hall of the Reef Foundation. "At the time, we were going to be the first ones."

But Hall said the idea was turned down because of environmental and longevity concerns.

"We also had questions about the possible mobility during a storm and we declined them," he said. "Since then, New York, New Jersey, Delaware and Virginia have taken the subway cars and studies are showing they're doing better than we thought."

He said all environmental concerns had been addressed, and the Environmental Protection Agency has found the subway cars to be suitable artificial reefs. The cars in current supply are newer and of a different make.

"The original cars were smaller and lighter and there has not been any mobility issues with them," said Marty Gary, a fisheries biologist with the Department of Natural Resources.

The new cars are stainless steel, while the old were carbon steel.

"Carbon steel had the estimated longevity of about 25 years, and the stainless steel cars have a minimum of 40 years," Gary said.

After the estimated life, it is predicted the cars will turn to rubble, leaving the aquatic habitat around it in tact.

"The marine life will affix to anything hard, and steel is a pretty good attachment point," he said. "The same thing happens to the vessels that have been deployed, but the nice thing about subway cars is that they are like a mini housing unit. Fish and divers can easily move in and out of the cars."

Gary said other states are jumping at the chance to get these cars.

"We have put in a reserve but we are not sure how many we are going to be able to afford," he said.

The mayor and council voted to support the idea, but no funding will be required from the town.

"Because of this big reef initiative with multiple user groups, we've been able to all work together, and in less than a year, raise over $1 million," he said. "The prices have been in flux and until we lock in an agreement, we won't know for sure, but the cars will be anywhere from $400 to about $700 per car, which is still a pretty good deal."

Gary said the town of Ocean City currently holds permits for the reefs.

"If we go forward with an agreement, the town will have to be the signatory on the agreement contingent on having the right deployment plan," he said.

Gary hopes to have a new agreement drawn up within the next few days and said summer 2008 would be the best time to drop the cars.


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## Codfish

Good news for the Second Avenue Line - it officially has federal funding! See this New York Times article.

Also, a few small things to respond to previous posters: yes, the Q (and eventually the T) will intersect with the Lexington Avenue Line (the 4, 5, and 6) at 125th St. and Lexington Ave. It doesn't just jog left because it can. As others have mentioned, the Lex Ave. Line (please don't call it the green line - despite the fact that it is colored green on the map, New Yorkers *never* call it this) is currently at maximum capacity, and the MTA hopes that the Second Ave. Line will be an alternate route down the east side of Manhattan.

I have two questions, though. First, once the T is finished, are there any plans to change the Q into an express between 125th and 72nd? It seems like the 4/5 (the express lines on Lexington Ave) will be much faster than the Q/T, so it'll be hard to persuade people coming from the Bronx to transfer. Also, the placing of the southernmost stops seems kind of strange; why not enable transfers to other lines, so that, say, you can continue on into Brooklyn? I suppose you can get the F, B, or D further north, but still. Maybe this would make more sense with a map of Lower Manhattan in front of me, but I'm curious if anyone has a ready answer.

Lastly, both "orient" and "orientate" are valid words (with the same meaning). "Orient" is more common and is older, dating from the 700s; however, "orientate" is hardly new, with usage traced back to the 1840s. If you need to pick one, "orient" is probably better, since (IMO) it sounds nicer and is more widespread; however, "orientate" is also correct.


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## Songoten2554

the Lex Ave line has been built a long time ago compared to the 2nd Ave Subway which is being constructed with modern machinery

The Lex Ave line was probably built using cut and cover but i think with the 2nd ave Subway it will be built using Tunnel Boring machines to make the streets easier for everybody

but this is an expection to the already built portions of the line which are built with the cut and cover method


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## Don Omar

U.S. Approves $1.3 Billion for 2nd Avenue Subway

By WILLIAM NEUMAN
Published: November 19, 2007
nytimes.com

The long-dreamed-of Second Avenue subway will take another important step toward becoming a real thing of concrete and steel today, as the federal government plans to announce that it has formally approved $1.3 billion in financing for the project’s first phase.

Transportation Secretary Mary E. Peters said in an interview that the money would be paid out *over the next seven years* as construction progresses on the subway’s first leg, which will have *stops on Second Avenue at 92nd, 86th and 72nd Streets and at 63rd Street and Lexington Avenue*.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority began preliminary work on the line after Gov. Eliot Spitzer held a ceremonial groundbreaking in April.

Ms. Peters said the federal money would pay for about one-third of the work on the first phase, which is *expected to cost more than $4 billion*. The *first leg is scheduled to open in 2014*, and it will run as an extension of the Q line.

“It will be very good news to people in the area that this long-planned, on-again-off-again project will finally be completed,” Ms. Peters said.

She said the financing for the Second Avenue subway would be the second-largest federal expenditure ever on a single mass transit project. The largest is for construction of a Long Island Rail Road link to Grand Central Terminal, which is also under way. The federal government has pledged $2.6 billion to that project.

Most of the additional money for both the subway line and the commuter rail project will be raised by the sale of bonds.

Plans for the Second Avenue subway call for the line to eventually stretch from Harlem to the financial district. It is to be built in four phases, but there is no schedule for the other three sections of the line. Ms. Peters said the transportation authority would have to apply to her agency for financing of the subsequent phases.

Contractors for the transportation authority have begun to cut a hole in Second Avenue south of 96th Street, where a massive tunnel-boring machine will be assembled.

The Second Avenue subway has been a dream of mayors, straphangers and urban planners since at least the 1920s. In the 1970s, a few isolated sections of tunnel were built, then covered over and abandoned when the city ran out of money.

The transportation authority has said that it is confident it will be able to complete the first phase of the subway.

It has been grappling, however, with rapidly rising costs on its large construction projects. On the subway project, the authority has had to add to its budget for acquiring the real estate needed to allow construction to $245 million, a $54 million increase. And it agreed to a tunnel-drilling contract for $337 million, which was $17 million more than it had budgeted.


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## micro

This is great!


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## sfgadv02

IMO, they should extend the 'T' [Second Ave.] to Whitehall St, this way people can transfer for Brooklyn service.


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## drunkenmunkey888

*Cross Bronx Rail Transport?*

I've noticed how Queens and Brooklyn's lines mostly go East-West but still have that one line, the G and N respectively that crosses those lines so people won't have to go into Manhattan just to get across the borough. But the Bronx on the other hand, has no cross Bronx subway and in order to get from Grand Concourse to Riverdale by train, one needs to take the D down to Manhattan and take the A up to 168th street for the 1 assuming one doesn't want to deal with buses (which can take just as long because of red lights and passenger exiting/boarding time). 

Does the MTA have any plans to build a cross-Bronx subway, light rail, monorail, etc.?


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## IU

^No plans till now


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## Gil

There was a brief discussion over in the New York subforum. It stemmed from an extension of the G or 7 line across into Bronx along one of the bridges. I'd be interested in seeing if there is some demand for a cross-Bronx route. What about extending the A train into Bronx and then running it as a cross route?


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## Songoten2554

mostly the Cross bronx routes are mostly Buses and the area around Bronx is small not big like Queens or Brooklyn though i maybe wrong about that

maybe Bronx was big but never planned i really don't know


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## Codfish

I wouldn't dismiss the bus network that quickly. There are a lot of places where the subways only have one orientation (for example, Upper Manhattan), but the buses supplement that very well; I'm not as familiar with the Bronx, but I've found the New York bus system in Manhattan and Queens to be easy to use, reasonably fast (if not as fast as a subway), and fairly comprehensive. And as to the fact that it's not as fast as a subway: yes, but odds are there's a bus much closer to you than a subway. For example, the place where it would make the most sense to have a cross-town subway in Upper Manhattan is probably at 125th St., since it could act as an extension of the T (eventually); but if you're, say, at 86th, it would be much faster just to take the 86th St. bus across Central Park than to take the subway all the way up to 125th (or down to the Times Square/Grand Central shuttle), across, and then all the way back up to 86th on the other side. Subways really aren't always the best method, folks! 

Maybe the situation is different in the Bronx; I'm extremely unfamiliar with it. But it looks to me like nobody's really calling for it, so let's let the MTA get on with building more needed projects - the 2nd Ave. Line, the 7 extension - before we talk about stuff like this.


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## Tcmetro

The G Line would make good sence. It could cross on the Tribourough Bridge, or the Throngs Neck Bridge, and than maybe a south extension to Coney Island or JFK. Using the Throngs Neck Bridge it could serve LaGaurdia Airport.


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## sweek

This is just an idea.

My aim here was to connect with as many lines and areas by constructing new subways underneath existing avenues and taking over a few branches and other lines, such as the Brooklyn Shuttle, the 3 and the M.


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## drunkenmunkey888

> I wouldn't dismiss the bus network that quickly. There are a lot of places where the subways only have one orientation (for example, Upper Manhattan), but the buses supplement that very well


Upper Manhattan bus is quite efficient because of Central Park. I take the M86 or M96 or M79 all the time and the Central Park crossing is exactly why its so fast. No traffic lights or stops, it crosses half of Manhattan in a couple of minutes. But then everything slows down dramatically once it gets out of the park. Now the Bronx is much wider than Manhattan and there is no long stretch of park w/o traffic lights or stops. 

Extension of subway lines are a bit pricey and can take a long time. (I mean they're taking 10+ years to build 17 km of subway?!?!? I mean come on! How long does it take to construct 15 stations?) What about monorail, airtrain, or separated light rail? Airtrain was built pretty fast.


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## Gil

@ sweek ^^

Here's the top half of your map with a 7 running along the Bronx-Whitestone and then along the Cross-Bronx Expwy. Seeing how the 7 is mostly elevated, it can continue along the expwy. corridors much like the JFK AirTrain does. This way there won't be severe traffic restrictions if the line were to continue underground. The matter of getting the line to fit onto the Bridge needs to be examined.


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## hkskyline

*Fare Is Fair: NYC Subway Fees Stay at $2 *
20 November 2007

NEW YORK (AP) - After months of angry public hearings over possible fare increases, transit officials announced Tuesday that the base cost for New York's 7.3 million daily subway and bus riders will remain at $2 through 2009. 

The decision was announced by Gov. Eliot Spitzer, who's endured a rougher ride lately than most city commuters, and the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. 

"I said I would listen to the public and review the numbers, and I am thrilled that we are able to give something back," MTA Chairman H. Dale Hemmerdinger said. 

The 25-cent increase in bus and subway fares throughout the nation's biggest mass-transit system was expected to have gone into effect next year. The MTA said it was backing off the unpopular proposal after an additional $220 million was found in its updated budget forecasts, with a portion of the funds coming from an increase in anticipated ridership. 

The decision to stick with the $2 fare could boost public opinion of Spitzer, the Democratic governor whose popularity has been spiraling amid unhappiness over increased state spending and his plan to make it easier for illegal immigrants to get driver's licenses. Spitzer has dropped that proposal. 

Fares on discount programs like unlimited monthly and weekly passes are likely to increase, which drew grumbling from opponents of the original plan. 

"This fare deal is not a total save," Assemblyman Richard Brodsky said. "It's a good first step, but it's just a good step." 

The last fare hike, from $1.50 to $2, came in 2003. The various discount programs make the average actual fare about $1.30. 

"My pockets are saying, `Yes! Thank you!'" said Terry Ellison, 47, a city employee from Brooklyn. "That helps out a lot." 

Last week, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey unveiled a widely anticipated plan to increase tolls by 33 percent for drivers between the two states. The agency said the proposal would help build a crucial train tunnel and encourage mass transit and environmentally friendly driving. 

------ 

Associated Press writers Michael Gormley and Samanatha Gross contributed to this report.


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## koolkid

I think the Bronx is ok with buses. Why waste money on a east-west subway line in a place where the main demand is to enter manhattan? The bus is doing it's job taking people from east to west in The Bronx. However, I definitley think it'd be a good idea to connect Brooklyn and Queens a little more via light rail or street car. I certainly think there's demand for it.


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## IU

hkskyline said:


> *Skanska says wins NY subway order worth $400 mln *
> 
> STOCKHOLM, Nov 9 (Reuters) - Swedish construction firm Skanska said on Friday it expected to receive an order to extend a New York subway line worth about $400 million.



Skanska has won the bid -

*Skanska consortium wins 270 mln eur order from New York subway*
Source

STOCKHOLM (Thomson Financial) - Skanska AB said it has signed a contract worth 270 mln eur from MTA New York City Transit to undertake construction work in the New York subway.

Skanska is part of a consortium of three companies, S3 Tunnel Contractors, which was awarded the contract. *It is to build an extension to the number 7 underground rail line in the New York subway, and to build a new underground station.*

The total amount of the contract is 770 mln eur, and Skanska has a 35 pct share of this.

Skanska's US unit, Skanska USA Civil, employs 3,800 people. In 2006, its sales were 1.05 bln eur.


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## geoking66

Codfish said:


> Good news for the Second Avenue Line - it officially has federal funding! See this New York Times article.
> 
> Also, a few small things to respond to previous posters: yes, the Q (and eventually the T) will intersect with the Lexington Avenue Line (the 4, 5, and 6) at 125th St. and Lexington Ave. It doesn't just jog left because it can. As others have mentioned, the Lex Ave. Line (please don't call it the green line - despite the fact that it is colored green on the map, New Yorkers *never* call it this) is currently at maximum capacity, and the MTA hopes that the Second Ave. Line will be an alternate route down the east side of Manhattan.
> 
> I have two questions, though. First, once the T is finished, are there any plans to change the Q into an express between 125th and 72nd? It seems like the 4/5 (the express lines on Lexington Ave) will be much faster than the Q/T, so it'll be hard to persuade people coming from the Bronx to transfer. Also, the placing of the southernmost stops seems kind of strange; why not enable transfers to other lines, so that, say, you can continue on into Brooklyn? I suppose you can get the F, B, or D further north, but still. Maybe this would make more sense with a map of Lower Manhattan in front of me, but I'm curious if anyone has a ready answer.
> 
> Lastly, both "orient" and "orientate" are valid words (with the same meaning). "Orient" is more common and is older, dating from the 700s; however, "orientate" is hardly new, with usage traced back to the 1840s. If you need to pick one, "orient" is probably better, since (IMO) it sounds nicer and is more widespread; however, "orientate" is also correct.


It's impossible to have the Q running express with the T running local because it's a two-track line. However, that could change if extra tracks are built below the Second Avenue Subway at a later time. Actually, although this would complicate it, the T could run express because the Q needs to be on the same level as the BMT Broadway Line because of the IND 63 Street connection.


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## ADCS

I know the difference is only semantic at this point (well, since 1967 and the Chrystie St. Connection), but is the SAS going to be considered an IND line, or is it going to be the only BMT line completely outside of Brooklyn (since the Q is a BMT train)? Is there even going to be a distinction? Inquiring minds want to know.


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## Gil

ADCS said:


> I know the difference is only semantic at this point (well, since 1967 and the Chrystie St. Connection), but is the SAS going to be considered an IND line, or is it going to be the only BMT line completely outside of Brooklyn (since the Q is a BMT train)? Is there even going to be a distinction? Inquiring minds want to know.


Given the colour of the T line, which is supposed to be light blue I'm not sure it could be lumped in with one of the other networks. From a technical standpoint, it'll be operated from the same division that absorbed the BMT and IND lines (could we consider it an IND line given its unique status?).


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## IU

I was walking around in NY today and had my camera along with me..so I took some pics of station entrances -





















Times Square


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## IU




----------



## hkskyline

*NYC subway delays are growing; transit chief cites track work *
24 November 2007

NEW YORK (AP) - The subways built to rush passengers beneath the city's streets are increasingly bedeviled by delays, according to new statistics. 

On average, nearly 7 percent of weekday trains ran late during the 12-month period that ended Sept. 30, New York City Transit figures show. That compared to about 3 percent in 2003. 

The agency counts trains as late when they reach the end of their lines more than five minutes behind schedule. 

President Howard H. Roberts Jr. said Friday that many delays were due to construction work aimed at improving the system, but the agency was exploring what "we might be able to manage better." 

One possible solution could be a slight cutback in the number of rush-hour trains, which might lessen backups, he said. 

Track work and other construction projects were by far the biggest factor in slowing subways, accounting for an average of 2,235 delays a month in the 12 months that ended Sept. 30, the statistics show. Signal problems were responsible for an average of 657 delays per month. 

Riders also played a role. By holding doors open, they held up an average of 518 trains per month.


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## Alargule

> Riders also played a role. By holding doors open, they held up an average of 518 trains per month.


Equip the doors with razor-sharp edges. You can only lose your fingers once...


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## sfgadv02

hkskyline said:


> *NYC subway delays are growing; transit chief cites track work *
> Signal problems were responsible for an average of 657 delays per month.


They should hire the MTR.


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## IU

Found some more renderings of the Second Ave. subway line from *FXFOWLE's website:*

_The Second Avenue Subway line will run from 125th Street to Whitehall Street, through sixteen new stations. FXFOWLE was the architectural lead for the preliminary design phase of the project which defined system characterized by environmental responsibility, high-performance design, neighborhood integration, and maintainability. The line will have a new, distinct identity, and each station will be welcoming, contemporary, secure, and accessible--a fitting realm for the city's future. The project was awarded a Green Design Award from the City of New York / EPA and was published in ID Magazine._






































86th Street station entrance


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## Svartmetall

Dale said:


> That's d-e-f-e-n-s-e.


Gasp, try using the Oxford English Dictionary and you'd find it's spelt with a C. Not everyone spells like the Americans.


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## Xusein

Well, ok...back to topic...

My major gripe with the NYC subway is the map. It's like spaghetti. I wish that they would make it more people-friendly like what the Tube has done. Although it looks almost nothing like it really does in real life, it does a good job of making the map easier to understand.

In contrast, anyone who doesn't live in the city and doesn't use the subway on a regular basis won't know how the hell to get out of Manhattan unless they pay extra, extra attention.

And, they could make it a little cleaner...but that maybe asking too much. While it may not be the prettiest metro or the most easiest to understand, the NYC subway does serve it's purpose very well, and is one of the best metro's in my opinion. Best in the US, for sure.


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## Dale

Svartmetall said:


> Gasp, try using the Oxford English Dictionary and you'd find it's spelt with a C. Not everyone spells like the Americans.


All of which is to say that lots of [purportedly] English-speaking folks are out of step. And the O.E.D. is way too heavy to be of any real utility. I use mine for dumbell step-ups.


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## vvill

Tcmetro said:


> ^ The numbers are for the IRT system (Division A), the letters are for the IND and BMT system (Division B). The two divisions are incompatable. Division B trains are wider and longer than Divsion A trains.


but a tourist like me wont care if its IND and BMT as long as i can travel on it. that's why i see no point of using numbers and letters to distinguish the 2 systems!


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## Falubaz

vvill said:


> but a tourist like me wont care if its IND and BMT as long as i can travel on it. that's why i see no point of using numbers and letters to distinguish the 2 systems!


oh come on! Is this really such a big deal??
it's not that hard both with numbers and letters, i think
far far better as the half-mile-long names for the lines in London, which tourists cannot remember so easy. it's a crap to go with the 'hammersmith and city line' and then change to 'east london line' or so, remembering all the line names.
in NYC u just have to remember 'line 1 then change to E or L'. It's much easier, every one have to admit it.


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## sotonsi

vvill said:


> but a tourist like me wont care if its IND and BMT as long as i can travel on it. that's why i see no point of using numbers and letters to distinguish the 2 systems!


IND/BMT is harder to tell apart. You mean IRT/B Division. The main point of having the IRT having numbers and the BMT/IND having letters is surely because you'd run out of space if you use one system, so you might as well have it split administratively.


----------



## drunkenmunkey888

shadyunltd said:


> As for NYC's subway... probably that my post was deleted, but I was making the same points as vvill. NYC subway is just not right for a world-class city such as New York City. I'd go on and say that even Toronto's craptastic subway is better than NYC's.


You've got to be joking. IMO, the NYC subway is _by far_ the best subway system in the world. Not even systems like Tokyo's, Moscow's, or London's can come close to it. It is one of the safest subways in the world too. I know a friend who have fell asleep on a Bronx bound 5 train at 3 am to wake up at the terminal and find his ipod, wallet, cell phone, etc. all still on him. Friends and relatives frequently travel on the subway well past midnight and nothing ever happens to them. They feel perfectly safe on the subway no matter what time it is. You can take it at 2 in the morning and still feel not the slightest bit threatened even if you're traveling through Brooklyn or the Bronx, let alone Manhattan. Try doing that in any other subways (whoops sorry you can't, there aren't any other 24 hr subways). Its express service just puts it ahead of every subway in the world by a wide margin. And the reliability and service that the NYC trains provide is simply excellent. Construction doesn't create massive delays the way it would for two track systems such as the Washington Metro. Honestly, it would be insulting to hear people say Tokyo's metro is better than NYC subway; saying Toronto subway is better than NYC's is just blasphemy.


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## sfgadv02

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> You've got to be joking. IMO, the NYC subway is _by far_ the best subway system in the world. Not even systems like Tokyo's, Moscow's, or London's can come close to it. It is one of the safest subways in the world too. I know a friend who have fell asleep on a Bronx bound 5 train at 3 am to wake up at the terminal and find his ipod, wallet, cell phone, etc. all still on him. Friends and relatives frequently travel on the subway well past midnight and nothing ever happens to them. They feel perfectly safe on the subway no matter what time it is. You can take it at 2 in the morning and still feel not the slightest bit threatened even if you're traveling through Brooklyn or the Bronx, let alone Manhattan. Try doing that in any other subways (whoops sorry you can't, there aren't any other 24 hr subways). Its express service just puts it ahead of every subway in the world by a wide margin. And the reliability and service that the NYC trains provide is simply excellent. Construction doesn't create massive delays the way it would for two track systems such as the Washington Metro. Honestly, it would be insulting to hear people say Tokyo's metro is better than NYC subway; saying Toronto subway is better than NYC's is just blasphemy.


The MTA does have its own faults, but it does run efficiently [95% of the time]. You have to admit that @ $2, it's a relatively cheap ride going from A to B, whether they are long or short distances, it's still $2.


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## koolkid

sfgadv02 said:


> *The MTA does have its own faults,* but it does run efficiently [95% of the time]. You have to admit that @ $2, it's a relatively cheap ride going from A to B, whether they are long or short distances, it's still $2.


I agree. I'd say drunkenmonkey is going a bit too far. Our subway is constantly going through maintenance which causes constant delays and changes in routes that makes everything ever so confusing even for some ny'ers. Even so, I wouldn't trade it for any other system in the world(although it would be nice to have more modern and clean stations). God bless the express lines...


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## ADCS

10ROT said:


> Well, ok...back to topic...
> 
> My major gripe with the NYC subway is the map. It's like spaghetti. I wish that they would make it more people-friendly like what the Tube has done. Although it looks almost nothing like it really does in real life, it does a good job of making the map easier to understand.
> 
> In contrast, anyone who doesn't live in the city and doesn't use the subway on a regular basis won't know how the hell to get out of Manhattan unless they pay extra, extra attention.
> 
> And, they could make it a little cleaner...but that maybe asking too much. While it may not be the prettiest metro or the most easiest to understand, the NYC subway does serve it's purpose very well, and is one of the best metro's in my opinion. Best in the US, for sure.


They tried changing the map in the 1970s, and people got really mad with the geographical liberties taken. Seems that because of NYC's orthogonal street setup, people "know" where they are a lot better than in London's tangle of medieval streets, so while most don't know exactly where a stop is in relation to other landmarks in London, if there were an instance of a 96th St stop on the 1-2-3 appearing further downtown than 86th on the A-C-B-D, it would be very confusing, even though it might be more useful for a schematic diagram.


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## iampuking

It would be stupid to have a geographically accurate map for London Underground, the lines are too wobbly (see here) New York's subway is more straight because of NY's grid street pattern.


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## hkskyline

Well, the moving screen maps on the new trains are not geographically accurate, but are adequate enough to tell the riders where they are.


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## hkskyline

*MTA director: NYC plans could include LaGuardia Airport train *
3 March 2008

NEW YORK (AP) - Freight rail lines could be converted into subway lines, new regional train stops could open in the Bronx and a train could take passengers directly to LaGuardia Airport under a 40-year plan proposed by the head of the region's transit agency. 

In a "State of the MTA" speech Monday, Metropolitan Transportation Authority executive director Elliot Sander proposed several long-range projects for the agency that runs the city's subways, buses and suburban train lines. 

The MTA could look to "underutilized or dormant" services like a freight rail line in the Bay Ridge section of Brooklyn and available land in Rockaway Beach in Queens to extend subway service in decades to come, Sander said. 

Sander also said the MTA would explore creating a second AirTrain service to connect LaGuardia Airport to Long Island Rail Road service in Woodside, Queens, as well as light rail service on Staten Island and new Metro-North train stops in the Bronx. 

Sander said the MTA would add $30 million worth of promised new service this year, increasing service on 11 subway lines and extending several bus routes.


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## Maelstrom

I'm surprised that the MTA hasn't done that ealier [connect to LaGuardia]. For such a transit orientated city, you would think that all major transport hubs would be connected. I hate to compare apples and oranges, but all of London's airports are connected, with numerous lines going all over London. It's unfortunate to see NYC lacking something that's really so crucial...


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## ChinaboyUSA

LaGuardia is mostly a domestic airport. JFK and Neward has more international flights, in consideration of that, mess transit is more necessary to connect JFK and Newark than LaGuardia because it can create a more diversified impression of New York City. My point of view anyway.


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## Gil

Would an extension of the JFK AirTrain from Jamaica into La Guardia be of any use? This was one of the earlier inceptions of the AirTrain service. Only the JFK line got built. Both airports would have connections at Jamaica (to LIRR and subways and buses) which would help for inter-airport transfers. Getting a single seat ride from Jamaica to Newark is another problem.

The La Guardia AirTrain can continue west of the airport to Woodside as suggested. A connection to Astoria would be better as it is closer and the N/W lines serve more areas than the 7. If the Port Authority (who has jurisdictional authority for the line) approves, perhaps a stop can be thrown in at Shea Stadium (read additional revenue) which would tie in to both the 7 and Port Washington LIRR.


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## xote

Maelstrom said:


> I'm surprised that the MTA hasn't done that ealier [connect to LaGuardia]. For such a transit orientated city, you would think that all major transport hubs would be connected. I hate to compare apples and oranges, but all of London's airports are connected, with numerous lines going all over London. It's unfortunate to see NYC lacking something that's really so crucial...


London being the capital and largest city of the country can suck the funds it wants to out of the UK's treasury. New York City is not even the capital of its state, let alone the country.

Simple enough. Does not make it right, but, everyone loves to treat this city like a cash cow, and we lack the ability at the state and federal level to get the infrastructure we need.


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## koolkid

Well said. I'm sure if ny was the capital of the U.S we'd be twice as important than we are today... :|


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## flierfy

ChinaboyUSA said:


> LaGuardia is mostly a domestic airport. JFK and Neward has more international flights, in consideration of that, mess transit is more necessary to connect JFK and Newark than LaGuardia because it can create a more diversified impression of New York City. My point of view anyway.


Whether domestic or international every airport needs a reliable and quick mass transit connection to the city and maybe most of all the city centre.


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## hkskyline

^ Agreed. We should judge by passenger numbers, not the type of airport.


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## Msradell

Galls said:


> ....Basically NYC gives away much more money in tax revenue then it will ever receive in return.


Everything I've ever seen shows New York being a huge vacuum sucking in State and Federal money. I don't see where New York sends out more tax money than it receives. Yes, New York City generates a lot of tax revenue but it also spends an awful lot.


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## iampuking

ElCrioyo said:


> I do not think the Moscow metro is used more widely than the New york city, in fact, i am not even sure if the Tokyo metro is as efficient as the one in NYC.
> 
> now, even though i dont usually visit this type of transportation thread(is actually my first time) i have to admit that your response is very ignorant
> 
> New York is the "capital" of the world(no matter what anybody else says), with one of the biggest metropolitan areas were people of every country, every background, and every culture interact and live with each others....
> 
> Many of us living here actually dont take care of that precious subway system that we have because we dont actually realize how important it is...anyways
> 
> Fixing and keeping the New York Transit system would mean that it can no longer be 24/7....that billions of dollars in subsidies would have to be given, that nearly a million of dirty motherfukers will have to be banned from the subway, and it would mean that service would have to be interrupted too much more than the present just to keep it working neatly
> 
> As those that live in NYC know:
> 
> Its impossible to shut down this system, even if its for a minute it, it would turn into chaos....EVERY single maintenance that they give to the system means that trains would be rerouted-shutdown-or closed...New york city people hate when trains are to be shut down...imagine if they do it 30x more than what they do it now
> 
> This city needs this trains, and its to hard to keep it clean with the amount of people that use it.
> 
> bottom line:
> 
> Shut the fu** up....I love my subway system even if its not as neat and well mantained as others


Do you actually know anything about the Tokyo or Moscow Metro systems, to compare? Or do you just have a completely over-inflated idea of the efficiency (and ease of use... Speed... Convenience... Ad nauseam...) of the New York Subway system? Sure, it runs 24/7, has express tracks, but if it isn't taken advantage of then it's about as useful as a chocolate fireguard.


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## Xusein

ElCrioyo said:


> I do not think the Moscow metro is used more widely than the New york city


Actually, Moscow (and Tokyo) are more used than the NYC subway


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## Galls

Msradell said:


> Everything I've ever seen shows New York being a huge vacuum sucking in State and Federal money. I don't see where New York sends out more tax money than it receives. Yes, New York City generates a lot of tax revenue but it also spends an awful lot.


On a per person basis it most definitely does. I will look for GAO report, but for the time being you will have to take my word that Kentucky gets much more in tax money than we do if measured on a per person basis.

And aside from that if that is the perception you truly have of NYC, that it actually take more fed money than it contributes into the city than no wonder why we always get screwed. The wrest of the country actually thinks they are more profitable than us.:cheers:

http://www.ginandtacos.com/?p=911










Note this was not me original source for this information, as with this blog the GAO was.


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## hkskyline

*Agency says NYC transit faces budget shortfall *
24 June 2008

NEW YORK (AP) - The New York City metro area's transit system is facing a budget shortfall that will likely mean service cuts and higher fares.

Metropolitan Transportation Authority officials say shrinking revenues and increased expenses have led to the grim financial outlook for the agency that runs the city's subways and buses.

The officials say they will have to defer the renovation of 19 subway stations, and will not increase service on some subways and buses, as had been expected.

MTA CEO Elliot Sander says he is concerned about the budget gap. He says that unless the authority gets help from the state, it will have no choice but to increase fares for the second year in a row.


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## Msradell

hkskyline said:


> *Agency says NYC transit faces budget shortfall *
> 24 June 2008
> 
> NEW YORK (AP) - The New York City metro area's transit system is facing a budget shortfall that will likely mean service cuts and higher fares.
> 
> Metropolitan Transportation Authority officials say shrinking revenues and increased expenses have led to the grim financial outlook for the agency that runs the city's subways and buses.
> 
> The officials say they will have to defer the renovation of 19 subway stations, and will not increase service on some subways and buses, as had been expected.
> 
> MTA CEO Elliot Sander says he is concerned about the budget gap. He says that unless the authority gets help from the state, it will have no choice but to increase fares for the second year in a row.


How come revenues are falling? Every other transit system in the United States has seen a significant increase in ridership as fuel prices have increased. While I'm sure their expensive have increased due to increased energy costs, I find it hard to believe revenues have decreased. Sounds like there must be a political spin on the issue or they're including indirect revenue sources such as grants and government subsidies.


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## ramvid01

^^ The state pulled 500 million dollars it had promised the transit authority about 4 months ago. Also the MTA makes money off of real estate taxe revenue which has been falling so they say.


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## Msradell

ramvid01 said:


> ^^ The state pulled 500 million dollars it had promised the transit authority about 4 months ago. Also the MTA makes money off of real estate taxe revenue which has been falling so they say.


This is about what I suspected. Mass transit systems need to wean themselves from gov't subsidies and instead use fares as their source of operating income. Subsidies should only be used for expansions and/or system upgrades.

I also wonder how true that drop off of real estate tax revenue is. Theoretical property values may have dropped in the last year but as a rule reassessments don't occur often enough or so widespread that they should have had a significant impact. And I'm sure the rate of taxation hasn't declined.


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## trainrover

Msradell said:


> Mass transit systems need to wean themselves from gov't subsidies


Why? so that roads can continue gobbling up an increasingly unfair share of outright subsidisation?


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## Msradell

trainrover said:


> Why? so that roads can continue gobbling up an increasingly unfair share of outright subsidisation?


Money given to road projects comes from fuel taxes. Actually not even all the money from fuel taxes goes back into the highway system, some of its diverted to mass transit.

So you are partially correct, roads do gobble up a large share of out right subsidies. Mass transit on the other hand take a significant portion of subsidies but contribute nothing.


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## Galls

Msradell said:


> Money given to road projects comes from fuel taxes. Actually not even all the money from fuel taxes goes back into the highway system, some of its diverted to mass transit.
> 
> So you are partially correct, roads do gobble up a large share of out right subsidies. Mass transit on the other hand take a significant portion of subsidies but contribute nothing.


Actually you are very much wrong. On top of the federal fuel tax the government still needed to contribute 51 billion dollars to just to maintain the roads. Mass transit on the other hand has shown to take a relatively low portion of subsidies and economic studies have shown them to have a net positive in external effect.

BTW, How is 4 dollars a gallon treating you? My $80 monthly pass gets me anywhere I want to go on the arteries of this real city.:banana:


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## ramvid01

Msradell said:


> This is about what I suspected. Mass transit systems need to wean themselves from gov't subsidies and instead use fares as their source of operating income. Subsidies should only be used for expansions and/or system upgrades.


Show me a mass transit system that doesn't get government subsidies and I'll show you flying pigs.


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## e.brandao

O metrô de Nova York é tão sem graça, prefiro o de São Paulo. Obrigado!


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## Grunnen

ramvid01 said:


> Show me a mass transit system that doesn't get government subsidies and I'll show you flying pigs.


Most of the Dutch railways is operated cost-covering from the tickets, without subsidies. That includes the InterCity services and the commuter trains. Only the rural single-track lines get subsidies.


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## stewartrama

iampuking said:


> Where I live is of no concern. Highlighting the fact that it carries 1.5 billion a year as if it were special shows your complete lack of understanding, as i've already said the Moscow and Tokyo metros both carry more passengers per year and are far cleaner. That's because they actually receive adequate investment. You're just making out that having a metro system that isn't looked after is part of city life. It isn't.


well, smartass, the new york city won a metro award for being best mantained this year. I agree that the subway doesn't recieve adaquate care, but originally you were just criticizing the subway in an almost competitive way. "Stop making excuses, it's dirty because it's poorly maintained" I believe you wrote. Well sorry that I don't read all of your posts and know that you had already stated that, I have better things to do


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## shadyunltd

What about the outrageous toll revenues (bridges, tunnels, turnpikes, etc.)? Can't they finance the subway projects?


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## Galls

shadyunltd said:


> What about the outrageous toll revenues (bridges, tunnels, turnpikes, etc.)? Can't they finance the subway projects?


Those tolls are collected via the Port Authority and it is a New York, New Jersey entity. The Port Authority is in charge of all the principle bridges, airports, tunnels, has its own subway system called the PATH and also owns ground zero. So their plate is pretty full.


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## stewartrama

Galls said:


> Those tolls are collected via the Port Authority and it is a New York, New Jersey entity. The Port Authority is in charge of all the principle bridges, airports, tunnels, has its own subway system called the PATH and also owns ground zero. So their plate is pretty full.


exactly. The PA (Port Authority) has to manage rail tracks building projects, airports, tunnels, some of the actual train cars, buses, etc.The MTA and PA have no direct relation although they are both government agencies.


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## hoosier

The entire New York metro area needs an infrastructure facelift. THe Bayonne and Tappan Zee Bridges need to be replaced, freeways need to rebuilt, and the Holland and Lincoln Tunnels need replacement as well, not to mention a new passenger rail tunnel under the Hudson (not coming until 2016hno.

Subways need cleaning and new lines need to be built (a direct Brooklyn-Queens-Bronx line, a line to La Guardia).

The federal government needs to step in and provide the funding for these improvements. NYC is the economic heart of America and needs first rate infrastructure to attract more people and businesses.


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## stewartrama

the g line runs through brooklyn and maybe queens and it brings in very few passengers; I dont think a line from brooklyn to the bronx would do that well


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## iampuking

London is neither, unfortunately.

It has endless surburbia (in European terms) yet has a crap road network.


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## city_thing

I'm quite sure Hong Kong is profitable as well. But they make money from real estate as well, don't they?

I don't think the problem of mass transit being unprofitable lies with soley with mass transit itself, rather the society it exists in. When you have a dense city, where it's too crowded and expensive to own cars, then transit blossoms. But when you have enormous sprawling suburbs, a car orientated culture that looks down on mass transit as being 'for commoners' and filthy, well, then you'll be hard pressed to make any money.


----------



## ramvid01

iampuking said:


> It temporarily "ventilates" i.e. passes a load of hot air and replaces it with a new load of hot air, but does not air-condition.
> 
> Believe me, this kind of "air-conditioning" is absolutely useless. They claim that's what ventilates the London Underground, but really does not cool down anyone whatsoever, and LU has stronger draughts than the NY Subway!


Oh believe me I would know, I take the subway everyday. 

Notice how I never said air conditioning or that it was useful. I only said it moves the air around. Please reread what I wrote.



anm said:


> Msradell, even if NYC denisty were the highest in the USA (not sure that it is, but it may as well be),


Which it is.




anm said:


> it is quite average by world standards for a city of this size.


I am pretty sure it is in the top 10 worldwid in pop density per square mile. And also what do you mean for a city of it's size. NYC is not that big of a city square mile wise.


----------



## Msradell

jarbury said:


> Compare the workforce for operating and maintaining mass transit systems with that for maintaining highways.
> 
> I read somewhere that NYC's subway has a bigger security team than many city's ENTIRE POLICE FORCE. I totally disagree with your above statement, I think public transport can generate a hell of a lot of jobs. Buses and trains also require maintenance, you need bus and train drivers... the list goes on and on and on and on.


You're correct if it's the only jobs you look at but you're forgetting to include the jobs in the auto industry to manufacture the automobiles and the required parts, also the automobile repair industry employs multitudes of people. You're also forgetting the entire oil industry (even though it is a ripoff) that employees 100's of thousands of people from exploration to production to distribution to sales.



> Anybody who thinks we're going to be using cars twenty-five years from now the way we've been accustomed to using them in the recent past ought to have his head examined.


I personally think we WILL be using then in much the same way. The vehicles will be very different and not fueled by the same fuels they are today but we still will be driving automobiles to and from work and for recreational purposes.


----------



## iampuking

ramvid01 said:


> Oh believe me I would know, I take the subway everyday.
> 
> Notice how I never said air conditioning or that it was useful. I only said it moves the air around. Please reread what I wrote.


My post wasn't exactly directed at you, more at moronic transit officials.

And I assumed you had not travelled on the NYC Subway since you did not remark on how ineffectual the "ventilation" of the stations is.


----------



## hoosier

Msradell said:


> I personally think we WILL be using then in much the same way. The vehicles will be very different and not fueled by the same fuels they are today but we still will be driving automobiles to and from work and for recreational purposes.


Any ideas as to WHEN this pipe dream of yours will happen? Mass transit can reduce car usage, air pollution, and sprawl NOW. I prefer not to rely on corporate CEOs to be the salvation of America's transportation woes.


----------



## hoosier

Msradell said:


> You're correct if it's the only jobs you look at but you're forgetting to include the jobs in the auto industry to manufacture the automobiles and the required parts, also the automobile repair industry employs multitudes of people. You're also forgetting the entire oil industry (even though it is a ripoff) that employees 100's of thousands of people from exploration to production to distribution to sales.


So keep an environmentally and socially destructive industry just because it creates jobs? Wind, solar and geothermal production could employ just as many people providing a sustainable energy source.


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## salaverryo

If you air-condition the stations you have to air-condition the tunnels as well. One thing can't go without the other. Otherwise the difference in temperature between the stations (cool) & the tunnels (hot) make the electrical systems go haywire. And air-conditioning both tunnels & stations is awfully expensive.


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## hegneypl

Heat in the NY subways can be partially attributed to the fact that the weather in that part of the U.S. gets very hot and humid in the summer. Since many stations are right under street level, the ventilation grates come through to the sidewalk. It's very hot under there, and yes, all the current fleet is air-conditioned. 
Money for the new NY subway projects, especially the SAS, has be re-directed to other projects that couldn't get the funding they need. So, the city just moved it from account to an other. Thus, subway works get put off, shruken down or eliminated all together. Plus, it also was dependant on who was in the mayor's office. If they weren't pro-mass-transit, the money would go elsewhere.
The fact that the east side of the city has been under served by the subway system since 1940, proves that thye have never gotten it right. The project is being worked on now, but will it retain it's schedule for completion and will the funds be there to do so?


----------



## anm

ramvid01 said:


> Which it is.


which it is not according to this:
http://www.citymayors.com/statistics/largest-cities-density-125.html

where LA is #90
San Fran/ Oakland is #104
NYC is #114 



> I am pretty sure it is in the top 10 worldwid in pop density per square mile. And also what do you mean for a city of it's size. NYC is not that big of a city square mile wise.


See the above. The table is flawed because some data is not exactly up to date, but mostly for the reason it freely mixes metroplitan area data for some cities with city limits data for others... but it can give you an idea, particularly if you know which one is which.

Even if one uses 8.3 mln within 1.200 sq km area (NYC city limits) - it is only 6900 people per sq. km - quite average by world standards and not within top ten in the world, unless you mean something like "in the free world" or " in the first world" or some other qualifier. But certainly not in THIS world.


----------



## Msradell

hoosier said:


> Any ideas as to WHEN this pipe dream of yours will happen? Mass transit can reduce car usage, air pollution, and sprawl NOW. I prefer not to rely on corporate CEOs to be the salvation of America's transportation woes.


Changes to automobile energy sources will happen faster than new mass transit systems since the auto industry is run by industry and mass transit systems are built by government. When's the last time you saw politicians agree on anything?



hoosier said:


> So keep an environmentally and socially destructive industry just because it creates jobs? Wind, solar and geothermal production could employ just as many people providing a sustainable energy source.


What we need additional industry not trading one industry for another. Besides how are we going to use all that energy? The auto industry is one of the industry's that made America great we don't need to lose it like we did the steel industry. We need to reestablish our manufacturing base and reduce our dependence on service industries. If we don't we'll continue to see exports decrease and imports increase.


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## Msradell

anm said:


> which it is not according to this:
> http://www.citymayors.com/statistics/largest-cities-density-125.htmlEven if one uses 8.3 mln within 1.200 sq km area (NYC city limits) - it is only 6900 people per sq. km - quite average by world standards and not within top ten in the world, unless you mean something like "in the free world" or " in the first world" or some other qualifier. But certainly not in THIS world.


I found information elsewhere that says the area of the five boroughs is 789.43 sq km in the population is 8,200,000. This would make the density 10,387 which would put New York at number 19 on the list so it seems like the mayor's statistics are greatly skewed.


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## urbanfan89

If all the hidden costs of using the highways were to be charged to the driver, betcha there would be a lot of sticker shock.


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## Msradell

urbanfan89 said:


> If all the hidden costs of using the highways were to be charged to the driver, betcha there would be a lot of sticker shock.


If all the subsidies for mass transit were discontinued nobody could afford to use mass transit!


----------



## urbanfan89

> Changes to automobile energy sources will happen faster than new mass transit systems since the auto industry is run by industry and mass transit systems are built by government. When's the last time you saw politicians agree on anything?


Nature won't wait for us to develop new fuels. It won't.

Get it?

Detroit didn't look at long term planning. Now they're selling their assets to survive.



> What we need additional industry not trading one industry for another.


If your current job has no future, you may need to consider getting another one. Same thing for an industry.



> Besides how are we going to use all that energy? The auto industry is one of the industry's that made America great we don't need to lose it like we did the steel industry.


If big SUVs have no future, then they have to go. My econ professor said that there's no point supporting a typewriter factory in order to keep the factory workers employed.



> We need to reestablish our manufacturing base and reduce our dependence on service industries.


You'll need to turn back the technology clock to do that.



> If we don't we'll continue to see exports decrease and imports increase.


Easy: export more.


----------



## jarbury

^^ Well they would because the highway's hidden costs would still make that more expensive than mass transit. When one rail line can carry as much people as about 6 lanes of freeway, it's a no brainer regarding which is more efficient.


----------



## anm

Msradell said:


> I found information elsewhere that says the area of the five boroughs is 789.43 sq km in the population is 8,200,000. This would make the density 10,387 which would put New York at number 19 on the list so it seems like the mayor's statistics are greatly skewed.


You used land area rather than total area. This makes some sense, since people do not live over water. However, many other cities have their own geological/geographical/etc. constraints on where residential areas cannot exist - mountains, water bodies, huge parks, industrial areas, airports, etc. In the end, each city has its own unique set of circumstances which need to be appreciated beyond raw numbers... but I think it does not change the conclusion that NYC density is kind of average, not extereme, by the world standards for a city of its size.


----------



## Msradell

urbanfan89 said:


> You'll need to turn back the technology clock to do that.


Why? What's being manufactured has changed but material goods still need to be manufactured. In the past you made a typewriter, tomorrow you make a handheld computer. In the past you made an SUV, tomorrow you make a hydrogen fuel sedan. You still make something.



> Easy: export more.


You can't import an intangible, you need to export an item. Exactly why we need a resurgence of manufacturing. Today, agricultural products are becoming one of the few commodities the United States has that other countries want.


----------



## jarbury

If fuel prices continue to rise, then the shipping part a good's value will increase a lot. This may once again make it cheaper to manufacture something locally, than to import it from China. Rising fuel prices are your friend if you're after a revival of local manufacturing: things are still made somewhere, just these days it's in China & India rather than in the USA and Europe. This is not only because labour is way cheaper in these places, but also because transportation costs are (comparatively) so low.

Anyway, we're rather off topic here. How's construction on the 2nd Avenue Subway line going?


----------



## philvia

anyone else notice msradell lives in kentucky?

i think that would explain a lot about his urge for more freeways, traffic, and wasting resources! :lol:


----------



## Msradell

philvia said:


> anyone else notice msradell lives in kentucky?
> 
> i think that would explain a lot about his urge for more freeways, traffic, and wasting resources! :lol:


That's where I live presently, I'm originally from New York and have also lived in South Carolina and France so I've got a good bases for my comments. I also notice you're from Tennessee which doesn't give you much insight into mass transit systems!


----------



## hegneypl

Just wanted to throw this into the pot. Mary Peters, Secretary of Transportation wants to borrow money from mass-trasnit funds to make up the difference of highway taxes lost due the the reduction of driving done by U.S. citizens as of late. In the U.K., the taxes on fuel are astronomical, but they are used to it and it's figured in to daily living costs. Here, we still get gas on the cheap, but this suggestion by the government is ludicrous. They tell you not to drive and use less fuel. They tell you to use mass-transit whenever possible. Drive less, less tax revenue. Use mass-transit which will lose funding to keep it going, not to mention any type of improvements. That's exactly what NYC has done. There is no accountability with taxed funds left in this country. Moneys are collected and used for whatever they decide and we are instructed to do what they say. Raise the taxes on fuel. Stop funding pork and outside projects, such as a war we never should've started and get things back on track! Take the express to success! woo woo


----------



## ramvid01

anm said:


> which it is not according to this:
> http://www.citymayors.com/statistics/largest-cities-density-125.html
> 
> where LA is #90
> San Fran/ Oakland is #104
> NYC is #114
> 
> 
> 
> See the above. The table is flawed because some data is not exactly up to date, but mostly for the reason it freely mixes metroplitan area data for some cities with city limits data for others... but it can give you an idea, particularly if you know which one is which.
> 
> Even if one uses 8.3 mln within 1.200 sq km area (NYC city limits) - it is only 6900 people per sq. km - quite average by world standards and not within top ten in the world, unless you mean something like "in the free world" or " in the first world" or some other qualifier. But certainly not in THIS world.



Actually your completely wrong. That chart uses land area, of which New York City only has 304.8 miles or 789.4 Km which comes out to 10,387.


----------



## anm

ramvid01 said:


> Actually your completely wrong. That chart uses land area, of which New York City only has 304.8 miles or 789.4 Km
> which comes out to 10,387.


1. I think, to keep flame down, you should have said that in your opinion I was not entirely correct.

2. Regarding land area - see my reply to Msradell above. IMO it is not fair to use land area for NYC without considering similar factors for other cities.

3. in any case - 10,4 thousand per sq km is not an extremly high number by world standards, not in the top ten no matter how you play with stats.


----------



## jarbury

From memory Barack Obama's transportation policy involves a significant investment in mass transit. Not that I really want to turn this into a political debate.


----------



## hegneypl

The way I see it in 25 years is exactly the way it is in the U.K., Europe and Australia.....smaller cars, higher taxes, cars with better emissions and fuel management. We Americans will have to embrace the technology, like it or not. There will still be big guzzlers out there, but they will not be primary transportation any longer. I always liked larger cars until the newer smaller cars were made ergonomically better. My wife drives a little Hyundai Accent, which suits our needs for all local travel. I drive a Chrylser PTCruiser, which is larger, but still small enough and nimble enough and mediocre as far as fuel consumption is concerned. The nearest mass transit system to us is a small bus line that doesn't go anywhere near where we work. It stops running when the sun goes down. It's pointless. Philadelphia is 70 miles to the south and NYC is 100 miles to the east. We even have to drive our car to get to those places as the inter-city bus lines are now so expensive, that it's still cheaper to drive.


----------



## Msradell

jarbury said:


> From memory Barack Obama's transportation policy involves a significant investment in mass transit. Not that I really want to turn this into a political debate.


If you don't want to turn this into a political debate how come he brought this up? :bash:


----------



## ramvid01

anm said:


> 1. I think, to keep flame down, you should have said that in your opinion I was not entirely correct.
> 
> 2. Regarding land area - see my reply to Msradell above. IMO it is not fair to use land area for NYC without considering similar factors for other cities.
> 
> 3. in any case - 10,4 thousand per sq km is not an extremly high number by world standards, not in the top ten no matter how you play with stats.


I am not flaming you. I am just stating that your wrong. I didn't call you a name or anything. 

As for land area the chart is using land area as it's basis. That is why I used land area.


----------



## jarbury

Msradell said:


> If you don't want to turn this into a political debate how come he brought this up? :bash:


Well hegney was saying how current policy means that money is basically being stolen from mass tranist funds to go into highway maintenance. I was saying that may not always be the case, as one of the presidential candidates does have a pretty pro-mass transit transportation policy. I think that's fair enough.


----------



## hegneypl

jarbury said:


> Well hegney was saying how current policy means that money is basically being stolen from mass tranist funds to go into highway maintenance. I was saying that may not always be the case, as one of the presidential candidates does have a pretty pro-mass transit transportation policy. I think that's fair enough.


That is only part of the problem. Railroads here hace vanished over the decades. Subways, like NY's are ingrained into their daily life. Large scale RR used to be that way, until cars came along. Then, people had the freedom to move around without paying the fees the RR's deemd necessary, which many citizens felt was too high. Amtrak is subsidized, but agin, depending on whom is in control, that funding can be pulled. The NY subways started out and private enterprises and when the city decided to compete, they eventually all merged.


----------



## jarbury

Fuel prices are going to change that I think. Public transport ridership is at record levels everywhere almost. Here in Auckland, New Zealand, ridership has increased 9% compared to this time last year!

The resurrection of the railroad will happen. Just need to electrify lines so that rapidly increasing deisel costs for rail aren't passed onto consumers.


----------



## NYCboy1212

Msradell said:


> I found information elsewhere that says the area of the five boroughs is 789.43 sq km in the population is 8,200,000. This would make the density 10,387 which would put New York at number 19 on the list so it seems like the mayor's statistics are greatly skewed.


 NYC with all five boroughs is 27,147 people per square mile which is 10,482/sqkm as of 2007 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyc


----------



## hkskyline

*Some NYC subway trains to go seat-less *
2 August 2008 

NEW YORK (AP) - Finding a seat in a subway car during rush-hour is about to get more difficult.

New York City Transit officials are planning to roll out a pilot program featuring a train with flip-up seats in four of 10 cars. The seats will be locked in the up position during rush hour.

This way, officials hope to squeeze more people -- as many as 18 percent more -- inside such cars.

NYC Transit President Howard Roberts says the seats will be unlocked after rush hours.

The program starts in five to seven months. No word yet on which subway lines will get the retrofitted trains.

The Straphangers Campaign, an advocacy group, predicts the program would be unpopular among riders.


----------



## sfgadv02

IMO, all the IRT lines will have these retrofitted trains.


----------



## Msradell

If New York follows the pattern in Tokyo after the seats are removed we'll see pushers stuffing as many people into each car! I'm sure even with 18% more people in the cars they'll still complain about not making a profit.


----------



## jarbury

Can't they just run more trains? Oh... that requires money.


----------



## quashlo

Msradell said:


> If New York follows the pattern in Tokyo after the seats are removed we'll see pushers stuffing as many people into each car! I'm sure even with 18% more people in the cars they'll still complain about not making a profit.


1. I doubt you will see pushers in America... Too much liability in a country which loves litigation.

2. Why does the system need to turn a profit?
Public transportation is a *public* good... We don't expect highways or bridges to turn "profits," why should we expect a transit network to do the same? While there's certainly room to "cut the fat" with operating or capital expenses, you can only take it so far... At some point, one has to admit that the system is not getting the type of funding it needs and deserves.


----------



## hkskyline

quashlo said:


> 1. I doubt you will see pushers in America... Too much liability in a country which loves litigation.
> 
> 2. Why does the system need to turn a profit?
> Public transportation is a *public* good... We don't expect highways or bridges to turn "profits," why should we expect a transit network to do the same? While there's certainly room to "cut the fat" with operating or capital expenses, you can only take it so far... At some point, one has to admit that the system is not getting the type of funding it needs and deserves.


Because you either pay for the loss through fare hikes or through taxes, and I doubt taxpayers are willing to fund someone else's transit woes. The money comes out of your pockets in the end, but just in a different way.

I think the most fair way of getting it is by the farebox. If a system is profitable, then only the users will need to share the burden. People who don't use transit won't need to pay for it at all even indirectly through other taxes.

You also need money to expand and maintain existing systems, and government funding doesn't always come readily to satisfy those needs. Hence, it's important to keep things at break-even at minimum.


----------



## quashlo

hkskyline said:


> I think the most fair way of getting it is by the farebox.


The roadway user has been getting a bargain for decades now because government policy (at least in the US) has been geared towards encouraging the use of private automobiles. In a reverse of your argument, I don't use a car, but I'm still paying so other people can use theirs. How is that any more fair than funding a transit system that doesn't break even? If we charged the transit user what it actually costs to provide that transit, I would expect we'd see a large shift of people from transit to autos, even in our current situation of high gasoline prices.

If we really wanted to be "fair," we'd increase gasoline taxes, unbundle parking from residential units, charge market rate for parking, etc., and internalize the true cost of driving to the driver. I'm not a fan of bloated transit projects with poor ridership projections, but the only way to remedy the situation we have in the US is to step away from dependence on private autos and embrace transit and transit-oriented development.


----------



## Msradell

jarbury said:


> Can't they just run more trains? Oh... that requires money.


And taking out seats saves money!


----------



## ramvid01

^^ Construction of the 2nd Avenue Subway and the 7 line extension.


----------



## jarbury

How are those projects going? By the sounds of it the 2nd Ave subway won't be finished until about 2020.


----------



## Filip7370

And what intresting will happend in 2009 in rolling stock?


----------



## hoosier

NY SUbway needs stimulus funding to modernize and expand the system.


----------



## jarbury

Apart from the 2nd Ave subway and the Line 7 extension, what expansion of the NY system has been proposed or is considered a pretty good idea?


----------



## hkskyline

I'm watching in close anticipation how JFK and La Guardia can be better connected to the rail network.


----------



## hoosier

hkskyline said:


> I'm watching in close anticipation how JFK and La Guardia can be better connected to the rail network.


JFK is connected to the LIRR and subway system via a rail line.


----------



## CityPolice

jarbury said:


> Apart from the 2nd Ave subway and the Line 7 extension, what expansion of the NY system has been proposed or is considered a pretty good idea?


Fulton Street Transit Center and East Side Access if you count them.


----------



## Slagathor

hoosier said:


> JFK is connected to the LIRR and subway system via a rail line.


I've traveled with the JFK airport train and although the stations and the trains are very comfortable, it's an isolated system. You _have_ to transfer to alternative forms of transportation if you want to actually leave the airport. 
That wouldn't fly in Western Europe and it struck me as a little backward.


----------



## sweek

CityPolice said:


> Fulton Street Transit Center and East Side Access if you count them.


And vague plans for a triborough line


----------



## hoosier

That Triboro subway line is a great idea. NYers shouldn't have to go through Manhattan to get to the other boroughs.


----------



## Yappofloyd

hkskyline said:


> *NY Transit officials considering $3 subway fare *
> 23 December 2008
> 
> NEW YORK (AP) - Get ready for $3 subway and bus fares.
> 
> That's a worst-case-scenario being considered by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which must close a projected $1.2 billion shortfall next year.
> 
> The MTA released a list of proposed maximum fares and tolls in a notice providing the schedule for eight public hearings to discuss the planned increases and service cuts.
> 
> Besides the single ride subway and bus hike from $2 to $3, the authority is looking at raising the weekly MetroCard from $25 to $32 and the 30-day unlimited ride MetroCard from $81 to $105.
> 
> Tolls on MTA-operated bridges and tunnels, including the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel and the Robert F. Kennedy Bridge --formerly the Triborough Bridge - could rise to $7.
> 
> The hearing notice also said some fares on Metro-North and the Long Island Rail Road could rise by as much as a third.
> 
> The first hearing is scheduled for Jan. 14.


I have not taken the NY subway for years but it seems crazy to consider a 50% increase in single journey fares when the city is trying to encourage more public transport usage. I guess this is the ambit figure given before any hearings so that any lessor price increase seems like a compromise?

Increase fares too much and you reduce the pax esp now that gas fares have decreased. Perhaps a smaller, roughly 10% increase with the weekly ($28) and 30 day ($90) MetroCards still gives good value for money but keep the single journey fare as is to encourage irregular users. One would assume someone in the MTA has done the figures of optimising pax numbers with various fare increase scenarios?


----------



## hkskyline

*Duo to visit 468 NYC subway stations in record try *
22 January 2009

NEW YORK (AP) - A pair of mathematically minded distance runners say they plan to break the speed record for the fastest dash through New York City's subway system.

Co-workers Chris Solarz and Matt Ferrisi say they've developed software to help them lay out the best route to take Thursday in their bid to set a new Guinness world record.

They will have to visit each of the 468 subway stations in the system using only local trains. The current record is 24 hours, 54 minutes and 3 seconds.

They plan to start at the Far Rockaway-Mott Avenue station in Queens. Their last stop is the Canarsie-Rockaway Station in Brooklyn. They'll take along with them chewy candies, energy bars and mixed nuts.

Ferrisi says the duo has been studying the system for six months.


----------



## jdbarber

sweek, where did you get the info for the proposed triborough line? i am interested to learn more!


----------



## ElMañana

jdbarber said:


> sweek, where did you get the info for the proposed triborough line? i am interested to learn more!



Here are some good links....

http://transit.frumin.net/trx/TriboroRX

http://frumin.net/ation/2007/06/le_triboro_rx.html


----------



## city_thing

sweek said:


> And vague plans for a triborough line


I really don't understand the letters and numbers NYC uses to describe its subway lines. Can someone attempt to explain it to me?


----------



## Falubaz

city_thing said:


> I really don't understand the letters and numbers NYC uses to describe its subway lines. Can someone attempt to explain it to me?


It's because different companies used to run separate metro systems in NY in the past.


----------



## FabriFlorence

Falubaz said:


> It's because different companies used to run separate metro systems in NY in the past.


Well, may be now the metro lines should be renamed...
In my opinion the best should be:
Lines 1-2-3 = Red Line (with A,B,C branches)
Lines 4-5-6 = Green line (with A,B,C branches)
Lines A-C-E = Blue line... etc, etc.


----------



## herenthere

Yappofloyd said:


> I have not taken the NY subway for years but it seems crazy to consider a 50% increase in single journey fares when the city is trying to encourage more public transport usage. I guess this is the ambit figure given before any hearings so that any lessor price increase seems like a compromise?
> 
> Increase fares too much and you reduce the pax esp now that gas fares have decreased. Perhaps a smaller, roughly 10% increase with the weekly ($28) and 30 day ($90) MetroCards still gives good value for money but keep the single journey fare as is to encourage irregular users. One would assume someone in the MTA has done the figures of optimising pax numbers with various fare increase scenarios?


They most likely have; if you search around sites like http://www.secondavenuesagas.com, you can find plenty of news about the fare hike. The city and state governments (especially its politicians) have been depriving the MTA of much-needed funds for years and this combined with the MTA's risky borrow-now-and-pay-later-without-planning-too-carefully for its renovation plans in the 80s and 90s (although renovations were sorely needed) creates a projected $1.4 billion deficit. This figure will only continue to climb as the economy stays this way, since the MTA counted on real estate tax income to support its operations since other sources of income (other than from fares) are very small. The MTA really has no choice-if they do not raise fares then they will most certainly have to shut down the system sometime later this year.



Falubaz said:


> It's because different companies used to run separate metro systems in NY in the past.


That's true; the Interboro Rapid Transit (IRT) operated the 1-7 lines, Brooklyn-Manhattan Transit (BMT) and Independent Subway (IND) operated the lettered lines. For more info, visit this great resource: http://www.nycsubway.org or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway


----------



## geoking66

city_thing said:


> I really don't understand the letters and numbers NYC uses to describe its subway lines. Can someone attempt to explain it to me?


There were originally three companies that ran subways in NYC. The first was the IRT, which uses a different rolling stock standard than the rest of the system. IRT lines are denoted by numbers (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, formerly 9, S Times Square-Grand Central shuttle). Then next was the BMT which used relatively standard measurements for rolling stock and evolved out of a commuter rail-type network. The IND was the last and was run by the city. The BMT and IND networks are for the most part interchangeable and use lettered lines (A, B, C, D, E, F, G, J, formerly K, L, M, N, Q, R, S [Franklin Avenue and Far Rockaway shuttles), T in the future, V, W, Z).



FabriFlorence said:


> Well, may be now the metro lines should be renamed...
> In my opinion the best should be:
> Lines 1-2-3 = Red Line (with A,B,C branches)
> Lines 4-5-6 = Green line (with A,B,C branches)
> Lines A-C-E = Blue line... etc, etc.


You'd need to have what the RER and the tube have, train departure indicators, for that to work. It's too confusing at the moment and express trains mess up the whole idea of colour coding. You'd have to specify express in certain boroughs and termini simultaneously whch numbers/letters can do.


----------



## serdar samanlı1

geoking66 said:


> On average I think only 40% of New Yorkers have cars (blame Staten Island for the high number). In Manhattan it's at 95% WITHOUT cars.


I think Manhattan is the business, commercial and cultural center, the majority of New York's residential areas are outside Manhattan


----------



## herenthere

serdar samanlı;31216794 said:


> I think Manhattan is the business, commercial and cultural center, the majority of New York's residential areas are outside Manhattan


About 20% of NYC's residents live in Manhattan.


----------



## CharlieP

Falubaz said:


> It's because different companies used to run separate metro systems in NY in the past.


Different companies used to run separate systems in London in the past too, but there's now one integrated system.


----------



## Matty

Using a color coded, ABC system would make NY's system even more confusing. Sure, it's confusing now to an outsider, but it's more important that NYers understand the system than tourists.

See, the "green" line is really 3 different subway lines. It splits into 6 different directions. You'd have, in Brooklyn alone, Three different A trains, three different B trains, and three different C trains, if not MORE. They ALL go into completely different directions. That's incredibly confusing. Why not have a 4, 5, and 6, which converge in Manhattan into the same line? Or a 2 and 3 that converge? It's more logical.

NY has an express system which London doesn't have. You can't just name something "blue line", "purple line" or even "Lexington Avenue" line or something like that, because those lines eventually split into 2 or 3 parts.


----------



## Falubaz

CharlieP said:


> Different companies used to run separate systems in London in the past too, but there's now one integrated system.


Unfortunately they haven't numberd lines in London but this 5-km-long-names and hundred of branches, so it's even worse than NYC, coz u never know where to go, u have to keep the metro map all the time in ur hands:///

Back to the topic: NYC could think of a better naming-system so that ppl always know where the trains are going


----------



## sotonsi

Matty said:


> NY has an express system which London doesn't have. You can't just name something "blue line", "purple line" or even "Lexington Avenue" line or something like that, because those lines eventually split into 2 or 3 parts.


In London there are expresses (on the Metropolitan line, plus Metropolitan/Jubilee and Piccadilly/District). About half of the lines split into several branches.
The Waterloo & City, Hammersmith & City, Victoria, Circle, Jubilee and Bakerloo don't split.
The Piccadilly has 3 western branches and 1 eastern
The Metropolitan has 4 western branches and 1 eastern
The Central line has 3 eastern (2 forming a loop) and 2 western branches
The Northern line has 3 northern branches, then 2 routes through central London merging into one southern route
The District line has 3 western branches, a eastern branch, a northern branch (which uses different trains) and a 3 station shuttle, using the normal trains, one station on the northern branch, the only station that all the other branches go through and another, unique station - it's rather messy.
The DLR has 3 eastern/southern branches, 2 western ones and a northern one that goes to the southern one only.

The District and Metropolitan were once a lot more complex, the Northern line was planned to be even more complex and the DLR will be more complex. Ignoring the DLR there's about 24 NY style lines, condensed into 11 lines.


CharlieP said:


> Different companies used to run separate systems in London in the past too, but there's now one integrated system.


So is the New York Subway...

The network divide is a good one to do. There's more lines than letters (or nearly), so having numbers as well works.


----------



## Gil

Falubaz said:


> Unfortunately they haven't numberd lines in London but this 5-km-long-names and hundred of branches, so it's even worse than NYC, coz u never know where to go, u have to keep the metro map all the time in ur hands:///
> 
> Back to the topic: NYC could think of a better naming-system so that ppl always know where the trains are going


The alphanumeric system of assigning routes is no less problematic than other systems such as using colours or strictly letters or numbers. Using names would be problematic as multiple lines serve the same terminus.

At the stations themselves, the trains are labelled Uptown/Borough-bound and Downtown-bound based on their direction. When multiple lines serve a station each line is clearly identified with their destination. Express and local routes are indicated by the shape around the number. Local trains in circles appear as (6) while express trains in diamonds appear as <7> at the front of the train and of course the full route name and destination appears at the side of the train next to all of the doors.

This is a lot simpler than say Paris' system where the line direction is identified by the terminus. The first-time user would need to refer to a map to know which direction they need to travel in.


----------



## ADCS

NYC's system was confusing to me until I realized it was exactly like road numbering in the US: while they all end up in different places, they can multiplex on top of each other, so the same track carries different routes.


----------



## juanico

Personally I find very useful the combination of colours for the main lines and letters/numbers for the routes + the Uptown/Downtown labelling. Probably the best system around for a subway such as NYC's, and it would apply very well to our RER network too.


----------



## disturbman

Gil said:


> [...]
> 
> This is a lot simpler than say Paris' system where the line direction is identified by the terminus. The first-time user would need to refer to a map to know which direction they need to travel in.


No it's not, when you are not used to it New York's system is very disturbing. But that's true for every system that is different from the one you are use to. You need time to adapt.

Paris's one (that is also the system used by lot of metro/tram/bus system) is quite simple. You just need to remember the number of the line and the name of the terminus, of the direction you are going. 

The real problem when you get some place else is that you are not used to the name used and they are then more complicated to remember. It's even truer when the names are not part of your cultural/language background.


----------



## sotonsi

I find it difficult on the official NY Subway map to work out which services are express and which aren't. Thankfully there are other maps that make it easier.

The single character system does work, though the colour grouping is annoying as it has local and express with the same colour on the same line in Manhatten, whereas two lines and different, but similar colours would help discern easier which line goes express and which doesn't.


----------



## herenthere

sotonsi said:


> I find it difficult on the official NY Subway map to work out which services are express and which aren't. Thankfully there are other maps that make it easier.
> The single character system does work, though the colour grouping is annoying as it has local and express with the same colour on the same line in Manhatten, whereas two lines and different, but similar colours would help discern easier which line goes express and which doesn't.


That's true: I often have to look at the lines under the station names for unfamiliar stations to determine if a train stops there. The problem is, it's even harder for tourists to figure out what "Full-time" and "Part-time" means for trains, coupled with stations having white and black-filled dots. 

In Manhattan, especially on the BDFV lines in midtown, they should separate the BD from the FV for the local stations...


----------



## hkskyline

* NJ officials suspend program to build artificial reefs using old NYC subway cars *
7 February 2009

ATLANTIC CITY, N.J. (AP) - The state has suspended a program to create an artificial fishing reef off Atlantic City by sinking old New York City subway cars underwater.

State officials say an initial batch of about 100 cars that have been sunk so far are showing "unusual damage."

The 35,000-pound cars were supposed to maintain 90 percent of their structural integrity after 30 years.

State Department of Environmental Protection spokeswoman Darlene Yuhas tells the Press of Atlantic City that the cars are deteriorating at a faster rate than anticipated. State officials want to find out why before sinking any more cars.

The agency oversees the 15 artificial reefs from Cape May to Sandy Hook.

The controversial program has been opposed by some environmental groups.


----------



## django89

This is a year late this reply, but I'm new to the board.

I've lived here my whole life and really I could really give a crap what the place looks like, I just like reliable service that's 24 hours. It could be cleaner, yes, but I'd rather have train come in a dingy, out of date, with tiles missing station at 4am than no train in a beautiful station. 

I can't get that in London or Montreal. While those cities spend millions on making it pretty, NYC spends it on actual 24 train service. 

As far as the elevated trains go, They are an eyesore to look at sure, but the view from the 7 train in LIC is amazing, and I would never trade that for a dark tunnel to ride to work everyday.


----------



## django89

sotonsi said:


> I find it difficult on the official NY Subway map to work out which services are express and which aren't. Thankfully there are other maps that make it easier.
> 
> The single character system does work, though the colour grouping is annoying as it has local and express with the same colour on the same line in Manhatten, whereas two lines and different, but similar colours would help discern easier which line goes express and which doesn't.


I think they should have the diamond to signify express and circle to signify local like they still have on the 7 train. I can understand it being confusing, but it gets easier. Though, when they had the roll key sometimes they didn't have the diamonds up even if it was express, so it was anyone's guess what 7 was express, but they digitalized the diamonds and circles now.

Color grouping has do do with route, ie. 4 5 6 trains (green) are the Lexington Ave. lines. 1 2 3 trains (red) are the 7th ave lines. 

Hey, it used to be worse. For example the 10 and 12 train was the express 5 and 6, respectively. Very confusing! Much easier to have 4 5 express / 6 local. 

The best way to learn is to pop your head in the train door when it opens and ask "is this express?"


----------



## django89

jarbury said:


> Apart from the 2nd Ave subway and the Line 7 extension, what expansion of the NY system has been proposed or is considered a pretty good idea?


Well, I found an ancient proposal from 1938 that would be great! It has the 2nd Ave train proposal (yup, it's been "promised" for about 80 years now), but it also had proposals for extensions of the 7 (and it seemed possibly other lines) further into Queens, with College Point, Whitestone, Bayside and Floral Park lines. I like that, because I hate taking buses when I need to be somewhere (though, if I have leisure time, I love taking buses), and a subway extension into my 'hood would be ideal.

and I just saw one for an interborough line, which would go through Bronx, Queens, and Brooklyn without having to go through manhattan first, which seems brilliant to me!


----------



## jarbury

Doesn't the G train provide decent links between Queens and Brooklyn? Maybe it just needs to be extended to the Bronx somehow?


----------



## iampuking

django89 said:


> This is a year late this reply, but I'm new to the board.
> 
> I've lived here my whole life and really I could really give a crap what the place looks like, I just like reliable service that's 24 hours. It could be cleaner, yes, but I'd rather have train come in a dingy, out of date, with tiles missing station at 4am than no train in a beautiful station.
> 
> I can't get that in London or Montreal. While those cities spend millions on making it pretty, NYC spends it on actual 24 train service.
> 
> As far as the elevated trains go, They are an eyesore to look at sure, but the view from the 7 train in LIC is amazing, and I would never trade that for a dark tunnel to ride to work everyday.


The only reason the NYC Subway has express tracks is because of history. So why are you implying that it is because the authorities invest in a 4 track system? If history were to give NYC a 2 track system then I doubt they'd maintain it any better, and it wouldn't be "pretty".


----------



## geoking66

Considering the confusion that even New Yorkers experience when it comes to local/express and crossover stations (turning back when going the wrong way), the MTA would be wise to adopt the amazing "Kick Map" shown on the right from the official site's comparison page.


----------



## iampuking

That kick map is such an improvement... Not only does it add more information, but it is way more aesthetically pleasing.


----------



## Chusanch

I quite like the Kick Map... At the end of the day, the map needs to be easy to read, and that one is...

Is that in use or just a proposal?


----------



## herenthere

jarbury said:


> Doesn't the G train provide decent links between Queens and Brooklyn? Maybe it just needs to be extended to the Bronx somehow?


G train is often under-scheduled (not enough service).



iampuking said:


> That kick map is such an improvement... Not only does it add more information, but it is way more aesthetically pleasing.


Kickmap is more in line with the London Underground/Euro-Asian metro systems' maps. Many tourists I've encountered have criticized the NYC subway map for being confusing. I would like to see the MTA adopt this map.


----------



## krull

*MoMA takes over the subway
The modern art museum replaces all ads with art in a Brooklyn station*


















BY: KUNUR PATEL PUBLISHED: FEB 12, 2009

Until March 15, a subway transfer in Brooklyn can also be a quick lesson in modern art history. For MoMA, New York City's modern and contemporary art museum, happycorp replaced every ad space in the Atlantic Avenue/Pacific Street station with reproductions of works from its permanent collection, transforming a grimy New York subway into an interactive art exhibit. See images from the exhibit, below. 

From Monet's water lilies and Picasso's "Les Demoiselles d'Avignon" to art that looks a lot like a neon sign, subway riders can view the 58 images of art with many of the resources found in the actual museum. Street teams handed out brochures and maps of the exhibit, so riders could identify and locate work throughout the station. On the campaign website, users can download an audio tour for further information about 10 pieces on display. Happycorp also created an interactive voice response system for the station's public phones. Users can call a posted 1-800 number to get information about the project or be connected with the museum's membership department. The IVR will also cue callers to type in a three-digit code for a specific piece of artwork and then play informational audio for that piece. Museum educators also gave tours of the subway exhibit. 

In summer 2007,The Grand Tour was a campaign for the National Gallery in the U.K., with Hewlett-Packard, that found select paintings in the streets of London's West End. Walkers could interact with the art displays via maps, tours and a downloadable audio guide. The campaign won design gold at Cannes in 2008. 












Doug Jaeger, CEO and founder of thehappycorp global, acknowledges MoMA Atlantic/Pacific's similarity to the National Gallery effort, though points out marked differences. Jaeger is a member of MoMA's marketing advisory committee, which also includes Pentagram's Paula Scher, Gerry Graf and 2x4 cofounder Michael Rock. 

"We wanted to do something very true to the New York experience, so we picked one of the largest stations in the subway network," Jaeger says. "We worked with CBS outdoor to increase the number of ad spaces available, so we could really increase the density of the art experience. There are additional vinyls up on the 4,5 and 2,3 trains." 

"We were transforming the subway into the museum experience, not just bringing artwork into the public space," he continues. 

Jaegar says the campaign is intended to drive membership of people who commute to Manhattan from Brooklyn. "It's a 24/7 experience. We want the MoMA and the art at the MoMA to be as accessible as possible." 












The subway turnstiles and pillars in the station are also MoMA branded. The campaign was revealed on February 10, after a teaser campaign that blocked out every ad space with a black sign that read "installation in progress." 

MoMA's in-house design team handled design and branding for the campaign. Julia Hoffmann, MoMA's cd for advertising and graphics says the campaign's large, simple and repeated messaging was meant to communicate instantaneously with the busy commuter. "The double sided arrow suggests movement, going from A to B, from home to work from buying groceries to meeting a friend and vice versa and the pink is loud and is not competing with any of the colors of the NYC subway lines," she says. 

The museum's latest graphic identity was developed with Scher and Pentagram. Prior to her MoMA role, Hoffman has spent time at Pentagram, as well as Crispin, Porter + Bogusky.










*Monet, Water lilies.*









*Vincent Van Gogh, 'Starry Night'*









*Frank Lloyd Wright, stained glass, left.*









*Pablo Picasso. 'Les Demoiselles d'Avignon' 1907.*


http://creativity-online.com/?action=news:article&newsId=134588&sectionName=behind_the_work


----------



## krull

*A Forest in the Subway*












By Miranda Siegel
Published Feb 8, 2009

When commuters push through the turnstiles at the new South Ferry Terminal in a few weeks, they’ll find themselves surrounded by an arabesque of glass panels depicting intertwined silhouettes of trees—a lyrical, $1 million installation by the identical-twin artists Mike and Doug Starn. See It Split, See It Change reveals a parallel between the trees’ veiny structure and the gnarliness of the century-old subway. “We view cities as complex organisms made up of various systems, and we wanted to work with images of nature to help bring that through,” explains Doug, who with his brother has employed sinuous and knotty bark before, in the series Structure of Thought. The Starns spoke to New York about their new work, one of the MTA’s most ambitious “Arts for Transit” projects.

*1. The Location*
“The South Ferry station is thought of as just the terminus of the 1 train,” says Mike. “But we see it as the beginning of the city, from which everything else branches out.”

*2. The Map*
The marble mosaic is based on a 1640 image of Manhattan. “There’s a way to do contemporary mosaics in the subway, but we wanted to take it back,” says Mike. “So we spent time in Pompeii studying.”

*3. The Collaboration*
The Starns worked closely with the MTA’s architects and even had a say about issues like the placement of doors. “It’s the first time the art has been part of the process from the get-go,” says Mike.

*4. The Links*
Many of the outlines come from photos taken in Battery Park. “Trees have a hierarchal structure: trunk, branches, leaves,” says Doug. “When you flatten the images, you collapse that hierarchy—and suddenly connections happen everywhere.”

*5. The Armor*
Yes, it’s glass. In the subway. But at least it’s toughened: “It’s fused, which gives it resistance equivalent to tempered glass,” says Doug. It’s also hung as its own curtain wall, to avoid damage from behind.


http://nymag.com/arts/art/features/54053/


----------



## django89

iampuking said:


> The only reason the NYC Subway has express tracks is because of history. So why are you implying that it is because the authorities invest in a 4 track system? If history were to give NYC a 2 track system then I doubt they'd maintain it any better, and it wouldn't be "pretty".


You're right about that. NYC, more often than not, doesn't know how to do shit with tax payers money. But it probably also doesn't get as much federal funding as the european counterparts everyone compares it to. 

But my point wasn't about that I could really care less if the station is modernized and pretty as long as it's a 24 hour system with more than just 5 subway lines. I can take the subway home at 4:00am and travel from the North Bronx to Bay Ridge for $2.00 (flat rate, not by distance either!) instead of dropping X amount of $ on a cab. (the distance from where I work in SoHo to my house in Queens would be a $50-60 cab ride, so knothnxbye)

People say NYC subways are crap, outdated, and disgusting, but it's the largest, the busiest, serving the city with the largest population in the country, and only 24 hour system in the world. And for all the things it does to benefit the epicenter of American arts, culture, and business, it's vastly underfunded from the federal government. IMO. 

Let me put it this way: How about you try repairing a toilet with roughly 6 million people shitting in it 24 hours a day 365 days a year without completely stopping service?


----------



## django89

geoking66 said:


> Considering the confusion that even New Yorkers experience when it comes to local/express and crossover stations (turning back when going the wrong way), the MTA would be wise to adopt the amazing "Kick Map" shown on the right from the official site's comparison page.



Neat! It's a cute map, but I don't think it's less confusing.

Then again, I don't find the original map confusing at all... But I still have a feeling tourists will be confused by any subway map, regardless of how many track-lines shown. I mean you have to actually know where you going, or at least have some idea, to understand either of those maps. 

For example, you have to know that Harlem is in the borough of Manhattan in order to figure out your best route to Harlem. I really have lost count on the number of times I've encountered tourists who don't know that Harlem is not it's own borough...


----------



## salaverryo

django89 said:


> Neat! It's a cute map, but I don't think it's less confusing.
> 
> Then again, I don't find the original map confusing at all... But I still have a feeling tourists will be confused by any subway map, regardless of how many track-lines shown. I mean you have to actually know where you going, or at least have some idea, to understand either of those maps.
> 
> For example, you have to know that Harlem is in the borough of Manhattan in order to figure out your best route to Harlem. I really have lost count on the number of times I've encountered tourists who don't know that Harlem is not it's own borough...


The problem is that tourists don't bother to learn the basic facts; they seem to think that everything will come to them by osmosis. The first thing to know is that New York is composed of five boroughs: Manhattan, Queens, the Bronx, Brooklyn & Staten Island. Everything else sort of derives from there, but you have to be aware of that basic division first.


----------



## quashlo

django89 said:


> Neat! It's a cute map, but I don't think it's less confusing.
> Then again, I don't find the original map confusing at all...


That's because you know where everything goes, which lines are express, etc.
From the perspective of someone who's not a New Yorker, it's confusing to see a single line on the map representing multiple train lines and then find out that not every train line represented stops at each station. It makes much, much more sense to represent each train line with its own line on the map, just like the Kick Map.


----------



## jarbury

Yes I think the Kick map makes a lot more sense. Of course locals don't find their system confusing - they've used it hundreds or thousands of times. The true test of a system is how easy it is for tourists to use.

I think London and Paris have systems that are generally very easy to navigate, though the London Map is a bit more easily readable that the Paris Metro map, where it can be a bit of a mission following the line of a route.


----------



## iampuking

django89 said:


> You're right about that. NYC, more often than not, doesn't know how to do shit with tax payers money. But it probably also doesn't get as much federal funding as the european counterparts everyone compares it to.
> 
> But my point wasn't about that I could really care less if the station is modernized and pretty as long as it's a 24 hour system with more than just 5 subway lines. I can take the subway home at 4:00am and travel from the North Bronx to Bay Ridge for $2.00 (flat rate, not by distance either!) instead of dropping X amount of $ on a cab. (the distance from where I work in SoHo to my house in Queens would be a $50-60 cab ride, so knothnxbye)
> 
> People say NYC subways are crap, outdated, and disgusting, but it's the largest, the busiest, serving the city with the largest population in the country, and only 24 hour system in the world. And for all the things it does to benefit the epicenter of American arts, culture, and business, it's vastly underfunded from the federal government. IMO.
> 
> Let me put it this way: How about you try repairing a toilet with roughly 6 million people shitting in it 24 hours a day 365 days a year without completely stopping service?


Isn't it a well known fact that the dirtier and messier a station is, the more likely there is to be petty crime? Take a look at the Washington Metro; the stations are spartan and clean and apparently it's crime-free. I doubt travelling through unpleasant stations help the morale of the people using the system, either.

I think your undermining the importance of maintaining the stations at the most basic level... We're not talking about "pretty" we're talking about picking up the rubbish from the floor...



django89 said:


> Neat! It's a cute map, but I don't think it's less confusing.
> 
> Then again, I don't find the original map confusing at all... But I still have a feeling tourists will be confused by any subway map, regardless of how many track-lines shown. I mean you have to actually know where you going, or at least have some idea, to understand either of those maps.
> 
> For example, you have to know that Harlem is in the borough of Manhattan in order to figure out your best route to Harlem. I really have lost count on the number of times I've encountered tourists who don't know that Harlem is not it's own borough...


The kick map is far tidier and more pleasing on the eye, the routes are clearer, the lines are straighter, even the colours used are more attractive. IMO the current map is a spaghetti mess, and not in a good way.


----------



## davsot

art and subway always go great together.


----------



## cristof

i'm surpised NYC subway havent some digilal ads into stations as London has...is there a forbidding for those kinds of ads. by the way, the subway isnt also filled in a lot of printed ads...can someone explain to me the reasons...


----------



## sotonsi

This map on wikipedia is rather good - it's simpler than the Kick Map (by not showing surface features like roads and neighbourhoods on there, and removing the exact geographicalness of the Kick Map). It shows rushhour/off peak services nicely as well as local and express.

The biggest problem I think there is with decent NYS maps is that they have to be massive to fit everything on.


----------



## herenthere

cristof said:


> i'm surpised NYC subway havent some digilal ads into stations as London has...is there a forbidding for those kinds of ads. by the way, the subway isnt also filled in a lot of printed ads...can someone explain to me the reasons...


It's because it is too expensive for the MTA to install them, and it will most likely get vandalized.

The subway is filled with a lot of printed ads, they're on the platform and station walls. But they are prone to vandalism since they are not protected by anything (unless its the newer, light box ones).


----------



## django89

iampuking said:


> Isn't it a well known fact that the dirtier and messier a station is, the more likely there is to be petty crime? Take a look at the Washington Metro; the stations are spartan and clean and apparently it's crime-free. I doubt travelling through unpleasant stations help the morale of the people using the system, either.
> 
> I think your undermining the importance of maintaining the stations at the most basic level... We're not talking about "pretty" we're talking about picking up the rubbish from the floor...
> 
> 
> 
> The kick map is far tidier and more pleasing on the eye, the routes are clearer, the lines are straighter, even the colours used are more attractive. IMO the current map is a spaghetti mess, and not in a good way.


I never heard that one about crime. I mean, it might make sense, but Paris metro is in a lot better condition and is cleaner than NYC, but petty crime is rampant there, so I don't think the cleanliness of a station has anything to do with that. I think crime rates have more to do with large populations and other factors like cost of living. Paris and NYC are much more populated than DC and are much more expensive to live in. I think when one is under such economic pressure, plus lots of targets (with a lot of commotion, It's easy to pick pocket someone when there's a million things going around you), I think that attributes more to crime than the cleanliness than the station.

As far as rubbish on the floor. It's not as bad people make it out to be. Just last night I was in 3 stations, 6 @ Spring, 6 - 7 Grand Central, and 7 Main Street, and I didn't see much trash on the floor. Maybe a gum wrapper, but that's it. The tracks, that's a different story. I think what makes the stations look run down, is more the rust stains dripping down walls, paint chipping, broken/missing/ tiles that have been haphazardly replaced. 

As far as rubbish on the floor, I think they should enforce strict laws against littering. Not a death penalty or anything, but heavy fines. Maybe hours of community service. I think generally people are really unappreciative of the wonderful subway system they have, and do treat it like shit, littering and spitting everywhere.

And I still think the federal government should give more funding. Then again maybe not. They never spend the money correctly. When the subways were built they were private companies, and they were beautiful stations, and when things are done by private companies it's usually done better (I know this is a NY/American type thing, bad government spending. In France, it's different, the government gives the money to public transport, and it's spent fairly efficiently and work is done quickly.)

I mean, it's no coincidence that when they subways came into the hands of the government they are in the condition they are in. It took the companies building the subways less than 30 years to lay down most of the tracks and stations you see today (except with beautiful, ornate kiosks, information booths and tile-work), but in the hands of NYC government it's been 80 years since the 2nd Ave proposal, and 20 years since digging started on the tunnel. Hmm... It might be in the City's best interest to put the subways in the hands of private industry again. Maybe then we can see it restored and modernized.










Former City Hall Station. Turn-of-the-century Post card. See what I mean? It was truly beautiful.


----------



## iampuking

django89 said:


> I never heard that one about crime. I mean, it might make sense, but Paris metro is in a lot better condition and is cleaner than NYC, but petty crime is rampant there, so I don't think the cleanliness of a station has anything to do with that. I think crime rates have more to do with large populations and other factors like cost of living. Paris and NYC are much more populated than DC and are much more expensive to live in. I think when one is under such economic pressure, plus lots of targets (with a lot of commotion, It's easy to pick pocket someone when there's a million things going around you), I think that attributes more to crime than the cleanliness than the station.
> 
> As far as rubbish on the floor. It's not as bad people make it out to be. Just last night I was in 3 stations, 6 @ Spring, 6 - 7 Grand Central, and 7 Main Street, and I didn't see much trash on the floor. Maybe a gum wrapper, but that's it. The tracks, that's a different story. I think what makes the stations look run down, is more the rust stains dripping down walls, paint chipping, broken/missing/ tiles that have been haphazardly replaced.
> 
> As far as rubbish on the floor, I think they should enforce strict laws against littering. Not a death penalty or anything, but heavy fines. Maybe hours of community service. I think generally people are really unappreciative of the wonderful subway system they have, and do treat it like shit, littering and spitting everywhere.
> 
> And I still think the federal government should give more funding. Then again maybe not. They never spend the money correctly. When the subways were built they were private companies, and they were beautiful stations, and when things are done by private companies it's usually done better (I know this is a NY/American type thing, bad government spending. In France, it's different, the government gives the money to public transport, and it's spent fairly efficiently and work is done quickly.)
> 
> I mean, it's no coincidence that when they subways came into the hands of the government they are in the condition they are in. It took the companies building the subways less than 30 years to lay down most of the tracks and stations you see today (except with beautiful, ornate kiosks, information booths and tile-work), but in the hands of NYC government it's been 80 years since the 2nd Ave proposal, and 20 years since digging started on the tunnel. Hmm... It might be in the City's best interest to put the subways in the hands of private industry again. Maybe then we can see it restored and modernized.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Former City Hall Station. Turn-of-the-century Post card. See what I mean? It was truly beautiful.


Firstly, the Paris Metro's stations aren't particularly clean.

Also, paragraphs 2 and 3 kinda contradict each other.


----------



## herenthere

django89 said:


> As far as rubbish on the floor, I think they should enforce strict laws against littering. Not a death penalty or anything, but heavy fines. Maybe hours of community service. I think generally people are really unappreciative of the wonderful subway system they have, and do treat it like shit, littering and spitting everywhere.
> 
> And I still think the federal government should give more funding. Then again maybe not. They never spend the money correctly. When the subways were built they were private companies, and they were beautiful stations, and when things are done by private companies it's usually done better (I know this is a NY/American type thing, bad government spending. In France, it's different, the government gives the money to public transport, and it's spent fairly efficiently and work is done quickly.)


Unfortunately, transit cops or the NYPD don't give a rat's A about people violating rules of conduct, like littering. What we need is Singaporean-style police enforcement of rules. And littering also has something to do with the customs and culture of some people.

I agree with you 100% about the gov't funding mass transit-unfortunately, the US is still generally car-friendly. Even the most recent stimulus bill passed by Congress includes tens of billions for highways and road networks, but only < $10 Billion for mass transit.


----------



## django89

herenthere said:


> Unfortunately, transit cops or the NYPD don't give a rat's A about people violating rules of conduct, like littering. What we need is Singaporean-style police enforcement of rules. And littering also has something to do with the customs and culture of some people.
> 
> I agree with you 100% about the gov't funding mass transit-unfortunately, the US is still generally car-friendly. Even the most recent stimulus bill passed by Congress includes tens of billions for highways and road networks, but only < $10 Billion for mass transit.


Yeah. America needs less cars now goddamnit! And with the new stimulus package, in ration of spending to population, it appears DC is getting more money. (NY state, is getting more in dollars, but in comparison to population it's not as much DC, NY is something like $170 per capita, where DC is equally to $400+) And the world wonders why D.C. has a better subway system... Ug.


----------



## django89

iampuking said:


> Firstly, the Paris Metro's stations aren't particularly clean.
> 
> Also, paragraphs 2 and 3 kinda contradict each other.


Well, insert practically any city's, Paris, Tokyo, D.C., etc. metro and it's probably in better all around condition than NY. 

I don't think they do contradict each other. One was saying it's not as bad as people make it out to be. The second said, if people do litter, they should be punished.


----------



## hoosier

django89 said:


> And I still think the federal government should give more funding. Then again maybe not. They never spend the money correctly. When the subways were built they were private companies, and they were beautiful stations, and when things are done by private companies it's usually done better (I know this is a NY/American type thing, bad government spending. In France, it's different, the government gives the money to public transport, and it's spent fairly efficiently and work is done quickly.)
> 
> I mean, it's no coincidence that when they subways came into the hands of the government they are in the condition they are in. It took the companies building the subways less than 30 years to lay down most of the tracks and stations you see today (except with beautiful, ornate kiosks, information booths and tile-work), but in the hands of NYC government it's been 80 years since the 2nd Ave proposal, and 20 years since digging started on the tunnel. Hmm... It might be in the City's best interest to put the subways in the hands of private industry again. Maybe then we can see it restored and modernized.


The system would get worse if it was privatized. The only thing a private company wants to do is make a profit, and that would mean jacking up fares immensely and skimping on safety.

Government doesn't have to spend money poorly- I think local transit agencies do a pretty good job considering how limited their resources are. Elect better politicians and money will be spent more wisely. If we had a better media, it would call out the government when it spends money unwisely.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Grunnen said:


> ^^ Doesn't NY get relatively few tax dollars at all? Because it is not even a state capital etc.


From what I understand, NYC gets just about ALL the taxes for the state of NY.


----------



## dl3000

Grunnen said:


> ^^ Doesn't NY get relatively few tax dollars at all? Because it is not even a state capital etc.


Besides, in most states, the capital doesn't really matter all THAT much. Good example is Sacramento, California or Springfield, Illinois or Olympia, Washington. There are much larger metros in those states that will get much more funding.


----------



## ADCS

dl3000 said:


> Besides, in most states, the capital doesn't really matter all THAT much. Good example is Sacramento, California or Springfield, Illinois or Olympia, Washington. There are much larger metros in those states that will get much more funding.


Except they have to put up with backwoods rural politicians who were elected into office on essentially a platform of screwing over the big cities as much as possible.

No, that is not an exaggeration.


----------



## Brice

herenthere said:


> Damn unions. The MTA could've saved so much money, money that could be used to improve conditions and service. And the MTA wouldn't have had to let go of all of their conductors: some could be used to drive additional trains, or work as station booth agents, or customer service agents in stations, or in maintenance...


This is not only the union. Few years ago the L train was supposed to be run by only one engineer with no more conductor and the State decided it was not safe enough in case of emergency.


----------



## herenthere

Brice said:


> This is not only the union. Few years ago the L train was supposed to be run by only one engineer with no more conductor and the State decided it was not safe enough in case of emergency.


Well, it was the union's lawyers that made the courts decide against the MTA. Frankly, if you look at the other major mass transit systems in the US and the world, most only have the engineer in charge of the train. (Although the case _could_ be made that NYC's trains are generally longer and many platforms are curved. But the second issue could be resolved by simply moving the CCTV screens from the middle of the platform to the front.


----------



## sfgadv02

herenthere said:


> Well, it was the union's lawyers that made the courts decide against the MTA. Frankly, if you look at the other major mass transit systems in the US and the world, most only have the engineer in charge of the train. (Although the case _could_ be made that NYC's trains are generally longer and many platforms are curved. But the second issue could be resolved by simply moving the CCTV screens from the middle of the platform to the front.


I believe that the front and back of the stations have these monitors already.


----------



## herenthere

sfgadv02 said:


> I believe that the front and back of the stations have these monitors already.


As far as I know...only the middle of platforms have it.


----------



## philvia

depends on which stations


----------



## sfgadv02

herenthere said:


> As far as I know...only the middle of platforms have it.


I'm not sure if you're talking about these monitors:

http://nycsubway.org/perl/show?66382
http://nycsubway.org/perl/show?71717

If so, then they're on all L train platforms.


----------



## herenthere

sfgadv02 said:


> I'm not sure if you're talking about these monitors:
> 
> http://nycsubway.org/perl/show?66382
> http://nycsubway.org/perl/show?71717
> 
> If so, then they're on all L train platforms.


Huh, I guess I should take the L sometime! But why would the L have it even though it was never slated to get One Person Train Operation (OPTO)?


----------



## stewartrama

whoa thats awesome. Jw, you guys, did the South Ferry Station open yet? Thanks


----------



## sfgadv02

herenthere said:


> Huh, I guess I should take the L sometime! But why would the L have it even though it was never slated to get One Person Train Operation (OPTO)?


From what I know, the MTA wanted to eliminate the conductor and have the train operator only, so I guess those were for the conductor. However, since there were protests from the union, the MTA were forced to have both the train operator and conductor.


----------



## sfgadv02

stewartrama said:


> whoa thats awesome. Jw, you guys, did the South Ferry Station open yet? Thanks


Not yet, the plan was to have it open in December 2008, but delays caused it to be pushed back February 2009. However, some errors along the platform caused it to be delayed again. The latest I heard is April. Let's hope so! hno:


----------



## stewartrama

sfgadv02 said:


> Not yet, the plan was to have it open in December 2008, but delays caused it to be pushed back February 2009. However, some errors along the platform caused it to be delayed again. The latest I heard is April. Let's hope so! hno:


thanks!


----------



## sfgadv02

GREAT NEWS!

The new South Ferry Station will open next Monday! 3/16/09


----------



## davsot

MTA Deal Approaches
_New York City may finally be getting the deal for which it’s been pleading for years_


Streetsblog reports that New York’s Metropolitan Transportation Authority may be getting at least part of the deal described by the Ravitch Commission I discussed last December. The plan would implement tolls for cars “at the price of a single ride MetroCard” (currently $2) on the currently free East and Harlem River bridges, including the Brooklyn, Manhattan, and Williamsburg spans. Trucks are likely to be charged a lot more.

This agreement represents the end of Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver’s manic attempts beginning two years ago to prevent the implementation of Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s congestion charge plan, which would have enforced a fee for cars entering, leaving, or moving about the lower half of Manhattan. This plan will transfer ownership of the bridges from the New York City Department of the Transportation to the MTA, which already controls several of the city’s tunnels and bridges the George Washington Bridge. It will (at least partially) rescue the MTA, which is facing a huge $1.2 billion budget deficit in the next fiscal year. The charges on the bridges will bring in something in the realm of $400 million a year.

The deal is also likely to significantly reduce truck traffic in Lower Manhattan and increase ridership on the subways. Though I’m a bit perplexed that people riding mass transit should have to pay the same amount to get across a bridge as people driving in cars, it’s better than nothing. That said, the MTA still needs more money to get through this fiscal crisis.

The New York State Assembly, which has been notoriously anti-toll in the past, will have to approve this plan before it can take effect…

http://thetransportpolitic.com/2009...hes-california-hsr-under-threat-in-peninsula/


----------



## herenthere

davsot said:


> MTA Deal Approaches
> _New York City may finally be getting the deal for which it’s been pleading for years_
> 
> This agreement represents the end of Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver’s manic attempts beginning two years ago to prevent the implementation of Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s congestion charge plan, which would have enforced a fee for cars entering, leaving, or moving about the lower half of Manhattan. This plan will transfer ownership of the bridges from the New York City Department of the Transportation to the MTA, which already controls several of the city’s tunnels and bridges the George Washington Bridge. It will (at least partially) rescue the MTA, which is facing a huge $1.2 billion budget deficit in the next fiscal year. The charges on the bridges will bring in something in the realm of $400 million a year.
> 
> http://thetransportpolitic.com/2009...hes-california-hsr-under-threat-in-peninsula/


Funny how Silver was the one who opposed congestion pricing and prevented it from ever being brought to a vote in the state senate, but now it's "his proposal" that's going to save the day for the $2 toll. Yeah right.


----------



## Don Omar

Fourth Transportation Mega Project in New York City Soon to Enter Construction Phase










12 March 2009
from The Transport Politic blog by Yonah Freemark
thetransportpolitic.com

*New Jersey Transit and the Port Authority soon to begin construction on Access to the Region’s Core*

Days like this make you step back and realize just how far we’ve come. On Friday, New Jersey Transit and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey will begin advertising bids for the first construction contracts for the Access to Region’s Core project. This rail tunnel will be the fourth major transit expansion project currently under construction in New York City, after the Long Island Railroad’s East Side Access project, the Second Avenue Subway’s first phase, and the extension of the 7 subway line.

The $8.7 billion project, to open for service in 2017, will provide new tracks for commuter trains under the Hudson River between New Jersey and New York City and create a huge new 6-track station under 34th Street in Midtown Manhattan (pictured above). The first construction will occur in North Bergen, though tunneling will follow soon after in Manhattan. New Jersey assigned $130 million of its transit stimulus funds towards the project. Both NJ Transit and the Port Authority have been generous in their distribution of funds to the project so far, though it still needs financial assurance from the federal government - likely to come this year - to complete the program.

I have a number of concerns about the project, many of which I addressed a few months ago here. As currently designed, the project will make it difficult to expand the tunnels to the East Side of Manhattan; the new station will be far too deep in the ground, making commutes inconvenient; and Amtrak will not be able to use the tracks for through service because there won’t be a connection to the existing Penn Station.

But those qualms aside, the fact remains that we haven’t seen investment in transit like this - together, the projects total more than $20 billion - since the 1930s. We’re virtually doubling commuter rail capacity into Manhattan, we’re taking dramatic steps to relieve the overcrowded Lexington Avenue lines, and we’re opening up a whole new area for central business district development. New York is being provided the vital arteries that will ensure its continued health in the 21st century.

In the early 1990s, it would have been difficult to imagine such a large investment in Gotham’s transport infrastructure, especially after the repeated failures in getting these projects started back in the 1970s.

It is ironic, then, that these investments are being implemented now, just after the conclusion of the truly transit-hostile Bush Administration. We can thank the renewed interest in urban life than began fifteen years ago, New York’s dramatic comeback, and the resilience of the metropolitan area’s politicians in the face of policy that would have otherwise kept these projects in the fantasy bin.

It also tells us that we need to work harder during the Obama Administration to make sure than a transit-friendly government maintains and increases the support Washington has provided for public transportation in recent years. This applies to New York, of course, but also to all of the nation’s metropolitan areas, each of which need and should expect money for better transit.

With these projects underway, it’s time to get started on the next batch. I’m thinking Second Avenue Subway phases II, III, and IV, Metro-North West Side Access, Moynihan Station, Triborough RX, and maybe even an Atlantic Avenue subway.


----------



## Alargule

^^ Why does the new tunnel make that strange curve? Couldn't it be aligned parallel to the existing tunnel?


----------



## herenthere

*South Ferry Opens*

*New Subway Station Opens Downtown*
NY1 News, Monday March 16, 2009

Starting today, the Number 1 train will come to a stop at a brand new station, as the long-awaited $530 million South Ferry station opens in Lower Manhattan.
Governor David Paterson and Metropolitan Transportation Authority Executive Director Elliot "Lee" Sanders were among the many officials on hand for the official ribbon-cutting ceremony this morning.
The new station, which became fully operational at noon, does not force passengers to be in one of the first five cars to exit the train. All 10 cars now open at the station.
"By Rector Street, there's normally a mad dash to get to those five cars or to figure out whether you're in one of them," said the governor. "And then, eventually, when the train finally reaches South Ferry, some people get off, some people get stranded. At 12 o'clock today, we will retire this unfortunate tradition here in New York State."
There is also be more than one entrance, more than one track, and a free underground transfer to the R, W train at Whitehall Street.
"What we're giving riders today is a portal into the 21st century and transportation fairness," said Congressman Michael McMahon.
The elimination of sharp curves means trains will be able to run faster – speeding up commutes.
"We will see a dramatic improvement in operation," said MTA Capital Construction President Michael Horodniceanu. "We expect to move passengers faster, better and more efficiently."
The station – the first new one in 20 years – is also fully accessible to handicapped passengers.
Another perk for riders, the platforms will be cooled during the summer months.
Straphangers say they cannot wait to start using the new station.
"This used to be the greatest deal in the city, the Staten Island ferry, now they're opening the subway station," said one subway rider. "You can't beat that."
"On the weekends, I visit friends and family and so I use the 1 train a lot to go on Broadway, so I'm excited," said another.
The project was completed two years late and $130 million over budget. Plans to open the station in January had to be pushed back after inspectors found the gap between the cars and platform was too wide.
"The station is on a curve. That resulted in a gap in excess of three inches," explained Horodniceanu. "They were addressed, and cheaper than we thought. We did it with a lot of labor in house."
Horodniceanu said any previous problems with water leaks have also been dealt with.

http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stories/95615/new-subway-station-opens-downtown/Default.aspx



Alargule said:


> Why does the new tunnel make that strange curve? Couldn't it be aligned parallel to the existing tunnel?


Probably b/c of existing infrastructure nearby, but yeah it does suck how they can't build a straight platform.

>>>Shortly afterwards...<<<
*Subway service resumes after water main break*
Eyewitness News, Monday March 16, 2009

NEW YORK (WABC) -- No. 1 subway service south of 14th Street has resumed after getting knocked out by a water main break.
The service suspension meant trains were unable to get to the new South Ferry subway station on its first day of service.
The main broke around 1:00 p.m. at intersection of Canal and Varick streets in TriBeCa, flooding the Canal Street station.
Because of the water condition, South Ferry-bound No. 1 trains were turning at the 14th Street station. 
The break also caused problems for riders of the 2, 3, 4 and 5 trains.

Trains resumed their normal routes shortly before 4:00 p.m. 
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=resources/traffic&id=6712318


----------



## Alargule

> Probably b/c of existing infrastructure nearby, but yeah it does suck how they can't build a straight platform.


No, I'm talking about the new Hudson tunnels here


----------



## sfgadv02

herenthere said:


> *New Subway Station Opens Downtown*
> NY1 News, Monday March 16, 2009
> 
> Starting today, the Number 1 train will come to a stop at a brand new station, as the long-awaited $530 million South Ferry station opens in Lower Manhattan.
> Governor David Paterson and Metropolitan Transportation Authority Executive Director Elliot "Lee" Sanders were among the many officials on hand for the official ribbon-cutting ceremony this morning.
> The new station, which became fully operational at noon, does not force passengers to be in one of the first five cars to exit the train. All 10 cars now open at the station.
> "By Rector Street, there's normally a mad dash to get to those five cars or to figure out whether you're in one of them," said the governor. "And then, eventually, when the train finally reaches South Ferry, some people get off, some people get stranded. At 12 o'clock today, we will retire this unfortunate tradition here in New York State."
> There is also be more than one entrance, more than one track, and a free underground transfer to the R, W train at Whitehall Street.
> "What we're giving riders today is a portal into the 21st century and transportation fairness," said Congressman Michael McMahon.
> The elimination of sharp curves means trains will be able to run faster – speeding up commutes.
> "We will see a dramatic improvement in operation," said MTA Capital Construction President Michael Horodniceanu. "We expect to move passengers faster, better and more efficiently."
> The station – the first new one in 20 years – is also fully accessible to handicapped passengers.
> Another perk for riders, the platforms will be cooled during the summer months.
> Straphangers say they cannot wait to start using the new station.
> "This used to be the greatest deal in the city, the Staten Island ferry, now they're opening the subway station," said one subway rider. "You can't beat that."
> "On the weekends, I visit friends and family and so I use the 1 train a lot to go on Broadway, so I'm excited," said another.
> The project was completed two years late and $130 million over budget. Plans to open the station in January had to be pushed back after inspectors found the gap between the cars and platform was too wide.
> "The station is on a curve. That resulted in a gap in excess of three inches," explained Horodniceanu. "They were addressed, and cheaper than we thought. We did it with a lot of labor in house."
> Horodniceanu said any previous problems with water leaks have also been dealt with.
> 
> http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stories/95615/new-subway-station-opens-downtown/Default.aspx
> 
> 
> Probably b/c of existing infrastructure nearby, but yeah it does suck how they can't build a straight platform.
> 
> >>>Shortly afterwards...<<<
> *Subway service resumes after water main break*
> Eyewitness News, Monday March 16, 2009
> 
> NEW YORK (WABC) -- No. 1 subway service south of 14th Street has resumed after getting knocked out by a water main break.
> The service suspension meant trains were unable to get to the new South Ferry subway station on its first day of service.
> The main broke around 1:00 p.m. at intersection of Canal and Varick streets in TriBeCa, flooding the Canal Street station.
> Because of the water condition, South Ferry-bound No. 1 trains were turning at the 14th Street station.
> The break also caused problems for riders of the 2, 3, 4 and 5 trains.
> 
> Trains resumed their normal routes shortly before 4:00 p.m.
> http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=resources/traffic&id=6712318


Even after the delay, the Lexington Avenue line was horrible during the P.M. rush. Only the 4 train showed up, no 5 to be seen, hence over crowding on the 4! It was a terrible commute! I waited 15 minutes at Union Square just to fit inside. hno:


----------



## herenthere

*With tolls out, Senate nears temporary MTA fix*
By Benjamin Kabak

When all permanent measures fail, take the temporary road. That’s the lesson the State Senate is prepared to unleash upon the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, according to sources in Albany.

Faced with a March 25 deadline, irrational hatred of East River bridge tolls, an Assembly on board with Richard Ravitch and the need to do something quickly, the State Senate is prepared to unveil a temporary fix that will solve the MTA’s budget problems for this year.

According to NY1, the plan is a stop-gap measure: Tolls are out, any support for the MTA’s capital plan is out and a 25 percent fare hike is out. In will be a payroll tax, a four percent fare hike and a few other measures. While Richard Ravitch, the architect behind an equitable tax-toll-fare hike plan that would have saved the MTA, warned Albany against temporary fixes, the State Senate has all but officially rejected tolls and is going its own way.

Nicholas Confessore and William Neuman, writing an elegy to the East River bridge tolls in The Times, called the latest plan a “a scaled-back, short-term alternative to bail out the authority.” Reports the duo:

The Senate proposal, which was presented privately to Democratic Senators on Monday afternoon, would include a 4 percent fare increase, half of what Mr. Ravitch had proposed. It would also impose a tax of 25 cents on every $100 of payroll on employers within the 12 counties served by the authority. That would be significantly less than the 34 cents that Mr. Ravitch had proposed.

“The immediate impact would be, all service cuts are restored, fare increases would be cut in half, and there would be no tolls,” said one of the two people briefed on the plan.

Democratic staff members reviewed some of the authority’s finances in recent days and concluded that a scaled-back plan would suffice in the short term. But the Senate proposal would require the transportation authority to submit to a deeper forensic auditing, a step lawmakers from both parties have demanded as a condition of laying out more taxpayer money for the authority, long dogged by waste and corruption.

Senate staff members have not finished calculating precisely how much revenue their plan would generate. But it would clearly be far less than Mr. Ravitch’s plan, requiring lawmakers to return to the issue again within months. But one of the two people who were briefed said that since the authority’s capital spending plan was already financed through the end of this year, Senate Democrats believed there was time to return later to find a more comprehensive solution. 

If this is what Carl Kruger earlier on Monday called “comprehensive and so outside the box that everybody should want to partner with it,” it’s clearly time for some new New York state leadership.

This is really just a punt by the State Senate. They’re enacting the least offensive measures of the Ravitch Plan while pushing off the MTA’s impending Doomsday by a few more months. Richard Ravitch knows what he’s talking about, and Sheldon Silvery, the Assembly speaker prepared to support tolls, recognizes now what the Senate will have to again tackle in a few months. The MTA’s long-term fix lies with the East River tolls just as it rested on the Triborough Bridge revenue a few decades ago.

If this is actually the plan to emerge from the Senate, I guess transit supporters should be happy. After all, if the MTA doesn’t have to cut back service while raising fares just four percent, New York has been saved from a transit doomsday. The MTA, though, is left with no clear vision for a future at a time when it should be laying the financial groundwork for more of the Second Ave. subway and more capital projects.

In six months or so, the Senate will have to revisit this issue. Maybe by then Malcolm Smith can corral the missing toll votes. The battle might be over, the war in a truce, but this whole story — a Ravitch-inspired fix that will require sacrifices from everyone — isn’t over yet.

http://secondavenuesagas.com/2009/03/17/with-tolls-out-senate-nears-temporary-mta-fix/

*The State Senate’s MTA Financing Plan Doesn’t Add Up*

by Aaron Naparstek on March 17, 2009

Here's one little problem with the Kruger, Diaz, Espada, Monserrate MTA financing plan: They got the math wrong.

The State Senators (for convenience sake, let just refer to them "The Fare Hike Four" from now on) say they can satisfy the MTA's short-term financing needs with a four percent fare and toll hike and a small payroll tax increase. The MTA says that math doesn't work, according to Reuters:

- The MTA's chairman, H. Dale Hemmerdinger, estimated the Senate plan would force the agency to raise fares and tolls by 17 percent -- about four times more than the Senate calculated -- as it would only raise about $1 billion more.

I suppose it comes down to a question of who do you trust more with the numbers, Richard Ravitch or four venal, old pols in the nation's most dysfunctional state legislature? If that's a tough call for you, then it's probably worth noting that Ravitch spent considerably more time working out his financing plan than did The Fare Hike Four. As Kathy Wylde at the Parternship for New York City says:

- The State Senate has had almost a year to join the public discussion of funding for the transportation system. They waited until the very end of the process to come forward with a proposal that provides not a nickel for system maintenance and badly needed expansion of bus service, let alone a full capital program. It is time for both sides of the Senate -- Democrat and Republican -- to join the Governor and the Assembly in support of some version of the Ravitch Commission Plan.

http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/03/17/the-state-senates-mta-financing-plan-doesnt-add-up/

DAMN STATE SENATE, GANG OF FOUR "Democrats"


----------



## hkskyline

*NYC transit fares may rise 25-30 pct - MTA chair *
13 March 2009

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Fares on New York City subways, buses and commuter trains could rise by 25 to 30 percent this year if the state legislature fails to approve extra funding, the chairman of the state's mass transit authority warned on Friday.

The cash-strapped Metropolitan Transportation Authority, the biggest U.S. mass transit agency, must vote to raise fares and tolls on bridges and tunnels and ax some bus and subway services by March 25 to start putting these decisions into effect in June, Chairman H. Dale Hemmerdinger said.

"We will be faced with similar choices next year, beginning with the preliminary budget in July, and for years to come," Hemmerdinger said at a special board meeting that was webcast.

The current single-ride fare for the city's subways and buses is $2.00.

Some 1,100 transit workers also will be laid off if the state does not come through, Hemmerdinger said..

But "painful" fare increases and service cuts could be spared even if the state cobbles together a rescue plan after March 25, Hemmerdinger said, though he warned against one-time fixes that do not solve multi-year shortfalls.

"If circumstances do change after the 25th, we will be flexible of course but we just can't afford to wait," he said, noting the agency, which carries nearly 9 million people a day, must balance its books by federal law.

The state Senate has not accepted either a financial bailout plan crafted by a former authority chairman, Richard Ravitch, or an alternative proposed by the Democratic-led state Assembly.

Ravitch has recommended imposing a toll of $5 on the city's bridges across the Harlem and East rivers that are now free. The Assembly recommended imposing a toll of $2.


----------



## sfgadv02

I heard that the MTA is planning another raise in 2010? This is ridiculous! What are they exactly doing with all the money??


----------



## poshbakerloo

sfgadv02 said:


> I heard that the MTA is planning another raise in 2010? This is ridiculous! What are they exactly doing with all the money??


Its still a lot cheaper than London Underground! lol


----------



## santobonao

This city is getting worse and worse...money is not enough and this not fair at all.


----------



## philvia

sfgadv02 said:


> What are they exactly doing with all the money??


well currently they're underfunded by a couple billion. so it will go to offset that.


----------



## davsot

they should've tooooollleeed itttt.... :|


----------



## hoosier

The MTA needs a more stable funding source- similar to that of Paris' mass transit system.

Income taxes and federal subsidies should account for more of the funding instead of sales and real estate transaction taxes. A federal law guaranteeing funding should be passed. That is the way it works in France.

It is amazing how the solutions to most of America's problems have already been found- in other countries. How about we get rid of our "America is the best" mindset and realize that we can learn from other countries.


----------



## sfgadv02

New South Ferry Station pictures:

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local...dy/south_ferry_station_finally_ready.html#ph0


----------



## philvia

http://www.railfanwindow.com/blog/


----------



## Falubaz

OMG!
It looks awesome! Probably the first nice looking station in the whole NYC metro system!

The tree motiv is very very nice!


----------



## Get Smart

Bad News for New Yorkers hno: MTA is increasing prices while cutting services :bash:


----------



## Dale

South Ferry Station looks fantastic. Now all we've got to do is make visitors to NYC think that that's what the rest of the stations look like.


----------



## herenthere

philvia said:


> http://www.railfanwindow.com/blog/


I bet you a year from now, that message "Welcome to the new South Ferry" will still be there...since it will be the only new station for a while until SAS is finished.


----------



## ddes

The South Ferry station is an improvement to other NYC stations but still far from its Asian and European counterparts.


----------



## hkskyline

The ceiling looks quite low. This is just a renovation, right?


----------



## sotonsi

hkskyline said:


> The ceiling looks quite low. This is just a renovation, right?


It's a complete re-build, in a slightly different location. The ceiling doesn't look that low - it's higher that most ceilings on the London Underground. What were you expecting - a Jubilee Line Extension-style underground cathedral that costs far too much?


----------



## Dothog

Also, a lot of lines and stations in New York are very shallow because of the geology, which is good news from the point of view of getting to and from the platforms but doesn’t leave room for massive tunnels.


----------



## hkskyline

So the ashpalt surface will be replaced by concrete panels for good or this is only for construction purposes?


----------



## herenthere

hkskyline said:


> So the ashpalt surface will be replaced by concrete panels for good or this is only for construction purposes?


No, I'm pretty sure that's temporary. I believe most streets here have a concrete base...?


----------



## Shmack

I just keep in mind this episode from Die Hard (part 3 i guess) when Bruce Willis was running along the street chasing the subway train.. So as he was running he was able to see the train through the drainage grating, and he used it to jump on the roof of the car. I understand the movie is not the best source but it's just how i got it. There was no any soil or smth.. just concrete.


----------



## hkskyline

*NYC transit faces debt, funding challenges-S&P *

NEW YORK, Aug 17 (Reuters) - New York City's cash-hungry public transit system faces challenges paying its massive debt and maintaining service, despite a new financial plan, Standard & Poor's said on Monday.

The latest funding program unveiled by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA), the largest mass transit system in the United States, leaves it in a better position than a prior plan approved in February, the credit rating agency said in a report.

But the MTA faces difficult decisions on how to raise extra revenue, maintain existing services, fund expansion and keep a lid on debt," said S&P analyst Laura Macdonald.

"If the authority's assumed funding sources don't come through, we believe those decisions will become a lot tougher," said Macdonald, primary author of the report.

For now, S&P is not expecting to adjust ratings on the authority's debt, which totaled $26 billion at end fiscal 2008. The agency rates MTA at A, or sixth-highest investment grade.

The MTA last week unveiled a $25.5 billion five-year capital plan that would enable it to buy 500 subway cars, install a touchless fare collection system and speed up buses by allowing riders to pay before boarding.

The authority said it would need another $10 billion to pay for all the improvements it wants.

The new plan followed the New York state legislature's approval in May of a payroll tax and motor vehicle fees as a revenue stream for the MTA. That helped the transit authority avoid steep fare increases and severe service cuts.

The authority relies heavily on property taxes to fund its operations and has been hit hard by the housing slump.

The new taxes will support the first two years of the MTA's capital plan but so far, there is no funding for the remaining three years.

"On the capital side, the program makes a number of funding assumptions that, in our opinion, could add further pressure to the MTA's finances if they don't come through," said Macdonald.

These include an expected 25 percent increase in federal formula funding and the approval of the next federal transportation funding reauthorization act in the fall.

"Either assumption could not materialize, resulting in the authority receiving less funding or a delay in funding," said the analyst.

The program also assumes $100 million a year in city funds for the capital program, up from a current $80 million a year. It further assumes $600 million from MTA asset sales, pay-as-you-go capital, or other sources, all of which may not materialize, S&P said.


----------



## Ultramatic

davsot said:


> ^^^^ I LOVE that site.
> 
> Ah, it seems all three of us have struck a mutual point. To *people* and not cars! :drunk:


So whats that your driving in your avatar? An R-44? :lol:


----------



## geoking66

ADCS said:


> Yep. It wasn't just one neoliberal who brought everything crashing down, it was the whole corrupt lot of them.
> 
> (BTW, neoliberal means supply-sider/Thatcherite/Reaganite/corporate conservative in the US and UK)


Thatcher and Reagan were not liberals in either the European (true) or American sense; they only believed in the economic aspect of it. Thatcher embraced it more and she didn't repeal the provision.


----------



## davsot

Ultramatic said:


> So whats that your driving in your avatar? An R-44? :lol:


Yeah, well if you live in PR, you need a car. The bus system doesn't even have a schedule. what the fork?!?!

Toyota Tacoma. >_>


----------



## JohnFlint1985

hkskyline said:


> So the ashpalt surface will be replaced by concrete panels for good or this is only for construction purposes?


it is only for construction purposes temporarily.


----------



## JohnFlint1985

herenthere said:


> No, I'm pretty sure that's temporary. I believe most streets here *have a concrete base*...?


true


----------



## dl3000

geoking66 said:


> Thatcher and Reagan were not liberals in either the European (true) or American sense; they only believed in the economic aspect of it. Thatcher embraced it more and she didn't repeal the provision.


Well they sure took the liberal route on the welfare state. That's the terminology I learned when it came to bare bones government involvement.

So those construction photos, are those of the Second Street Subway or a different project? Pardon my ignorance.


----------



## sfgadv02

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kelving525/3658221667/sizes/l/


----------



## hkskyline

*NYC lawmaker wants 'Bad' subway station renamed for Michael Jackson; MTA says honor unlikely *
24 August 2009

NEW YORK (AP) - A New York City lawmaker wants to see Michael Jackson honored at a subway station where the star made the music video for "Bad."

Councilwoman Letitia James wants a plaque placed at Brooklyn's Hoyt-Schermerhorn station -- or to have "Jackson" added to the station's name.

Metropolitan Transportation Authority spokesman Kevin Ortiz said Monday it's unlikely. James, undeterred, plans a petition drive.

Jackson, who died June 25, shot the Martin Scorsese-directed music video at the downtown Brooklyn station in 1987.

Ortiz says the MTA prohibits station plaques. The agency is developing naming-rights guidelines.


----------



## 1772

salaverryo said:


> As big a failure as today's British economy thanks to the policies instituted by that bitch.


Todays british enconomy is a result of labour, not Ms Thatcher. 
She saved your asses back when the economy was dropping fast and unions behaved like Stasi agents.


----------



## metsfan

They should.

- A


----------



## Xoser_barcelona

I never knew Thatcher had anything to do with the NYC subway....
Anyway. Question to someone who might know this; why is the PATH system not connected to the NYC subway at 34th street? Is it a matter of gauge or power supply or are there other reasons? Also, are there any plans to connect the Staten Island Railway to Manhattan?


----------



## herenthere

Xoser_barcelona said:


> I never knew Thatcher had anything to do with the NYC subway....
> Anyway. Question to someone who might know this; why is the PATH system not connected to the NYC subway at 34th street? Is it a matter of gauge or power supply or are there other reasons? Also, are there any plans to connect the Staten Island Railway to Manhattan?


Well the PATH is independent of the subway-they're not operated by the same company. PATH is operated by the Port Authority, whereas the subway is operated by the MTA.

I don't believe there are any plans to connect the SIR to Manhattan or Brooklyn, although this would be a lot more rider-friendly and would definitely encourage mass transit use, as people would not have to wait for the ferry anymore.


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## dwdwone

herenthere said:


> Well the PATH is independent of the subway-they're not operated by the same company. PATH is operated by the Port Authority, whereas the subway is operated by the MTA.
> 
> I don't believe there are any plans to connect the SIR to Manhattan or Brooklyn, although this would be a lot more rider-friendly and would definitely encourage mass transit use, as people would not have to wait for the ferry anymore.


I've read that there is a tunnel near the Verrazano that runs a couple of hundred feet under the narrows and then stops. Thanks to our old buddy Robert Moses.

There have been proposals for years for a SIRT link to Brooklyn, Manhattan and NJ via the Goethhels (sp) Bridge. It is also a pet project of a few Staten Island politicians, but thats as far as it goes right now.


----------



## herenthere

dwdwone said:


> I've read that there is a tunnel near the Verrazano that runs a couple of hundred feet under the narrows and then stops. Thanks to our old buddy Robert Moses.


I don't think Robert Moses was involved with this...I believe at the time he was head of the parks department.


----------



## Gil

dwdwone said:


> . . . There have been proposals for years for a SIRT link to Brooklyn, Manhattan and NJ via the Goethhels (sp) Bridge. It is also a pet project of a few Staten Island politicians, but thats as far as it goes right now.


Given the direction that transit is developing on Staten Island, it looks as if any rail-based connection to the rest of NYC will most likely be through New Jersey. Hopefully an arrangement similar to what the Metro North has on the Port Jervis and Pascack Valley lines out of Penn Station can be worked out.

An ideal situation would be to piggyback a line on the Verrazano bridge into Brooklyn. That'd require a large chunk of infrastructure cash to get it going though. I'm not sure if that'd be faster than getting of at St. George and taking the ferry to Manhattan.


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## hkskyline

*TRAINING THE DOOR 'BOORS' *
5 September 2009
New York Post

The subway conductors keep telling you, over and over. But you still don't listen, do you?

"Ladies and gentleman, please do not hold the train doors open," they say.

But out of habit - or misguided good manners - straphangers regularly block a closing door, often with a foot, an arm or a bag. The MTA says this delays many trains.

Faced with straphangers who increasingly hold open train doors - causing delays and potential safety hazards - the MTA is rolling out a new ad blitz to try to curb the practice.

"PLEASE DON'T BLOCK THE DOORS," say emphatic new signs being posted in the system's 2,200 subway cars.

"You delay the train and everyone on it," the signs say. "Help this train and the next one stay on schedule."

Last year, more than 9,000 trains were late because of door-blocking, city officials say. That number is on track to be even higher this year, because 7,500 door delays occurred in just the first eight months of 2009.

A train is considered late if it arrives more than five minutes behind schedule.

The MTA said riders may think they are being nice to late-arriving passengers trying to make the train. But they are really being rude to those already aboard.


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## ADCS

Suburbanist said:


> Taxes are meant to funding government activities. Just because something like MTA is a public service doesn't mean it should have a stable price. From the first you can't derive the second.


Except that having a stable price is part and parcel of that public service. Part of the appeal of subsidized mass transit is that personal transportation costs can be anticipated and budgeted for. In a system with constantly fluctuating prices, this would be impossible. Not only that, but capital investment would be disincentivized, as price rationing (over the course of a day, extremely high during rush hour, extremely low overnight) of existing infrastructure would bring in the desired revenue while minimizing strain on the system. Of course, the point, as in every transportation system (including roads), is that strain is indicative of insufficient capacity, and a need for further capital improvements.

Transit serves as a multiplier of other economic activity. The more people it can serve, the better the multiplier effect.


----------



## Suburbanist

ADCS said:


> Except that having a stable price is part and parcel of that public service. Part of the appeal of subsidized mass transit is that personal transportation costs can be anticipated and budgeted for. In a system with constantly fluctuating prices, this would be impossible. Not only that, but capital investment would be disincentivized, as price rationing (over the course of a day, extremely high during rush hour, extremely low overnight) of existing infrastructure would bring in the desired revenue while minimizing strain on the system. Of course, the point, as in every transportation system (including roads), is that strain is indicative of insufficient capacity, and a need for further capital improvements.
> 
> Transit serves as a multiplier of other economic activity. The more people it can serve, the better the multiplier effect.


Sure. But that is applicable to any transportation network, from ports to air terminals to highways and subways.

Many cities, big and medium, adopt distinct peak- and off-peak fares as a mean to divert passengers, those who don't necessarily need to travel at peak times but are not deterred by crowd itself, to off-peak times where there are more space/rolling stock/path/manpower idle.

London is an example


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## HARTride 2012

Ok, I have a question, I am visiting New York City in March and want to know what are the best lines to use to get around to the major places, such as Times Square, Empire State Bldg, etc. Especially after the MTA made all these changes, it would be helpful to know.

Thanks in advance


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## Alargule

Ever tried the MTA website?

BTW: "all these changes"...the only routes that were changed were the W (terminated), V (terminated) and M (rerouted; took over the largest part of the route of the former V train).


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## hkskyline

*Fistfight over passenger's right to eat spaghetti in NYC subway ignites an etiquette debate*
24 March 2011

NEW YORK (AP) - The city's subway riders can handle panhandlers, rats and tuneless street musicians. But eating spaghetti in a crowded subway car? Well, that's just going too far.

An Internet video that shows New Yorkers brawling over a passenger's right to nosh noodles on the subway has ignited a debate about what people should and shouldn't do in the nation's largest mass transit system.

The video, posted online anonymously, picks up mid-argument, as a woman twirls onto her fork spaghetti from a takeout container and a passenger across the aisle chides her.

"What kind of animals eat on the train like that?" says the woman across the aisle.

The diner snaps back with an epithet, and the exchange quickly degenerates into a fistfight.

"Chill out!" shouts a man as he tries to pull apart the two combatants.

The video has touched a nerve in a stressed-out city where the commutes are difficult and no perceived slight goes undocumented, thanks to cellphone video cameras.

On Internet sites, hundreds of viewers of the spaghetti skirmish debated the smell and the spilling of subterranean snackers. One YouTube contributor mixed video of the fight with scenes from the violent 1983 Al Pacino crime drama "Scarface."

Some New York commuters called for a subway system ban on food, like the ones enforced in Washington, San Francisco and other cities. The Port Authority Trans-Hudson trains, which run between New York and New Jersey, already prohibit eating.

"I think it's nasty when people eat," said Sam Ramos, as he rode a 5 train to the Bronx. "They should go somewhere else."

But at the other end of the car, John Augustine dug into a cup of chili and said people should mind their own business.

"People will fight about all kinds of things," Augustine said. "Are we going to legislate against every one of them?"

Littering, playing loud music and smoking are prohibited in the subway system. On Wednesday, the chairman of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which runs the city's subway and bus system, said police have bigger problems to deal with than patrolling the trains for chowhounds.

"We all have a responsibility to treat our subway system and our fellow riders with respect," chairman Jay Walder said. "This is a system that carries 5 million people a day, and I'm not sure that a ban on food is really practical or enforceable."

MTA board member Andrew Albert said such a rule would cut into food sales at newsstands, which pay rent to the agency. But another board member, Doreen Frasca, suggested the MTA should impose the rule on the Manhattan Second Avenue line, which is under construction, as a pilot program.

Some riders recently have taken enforcing subway etiquette into their own hands. Last year, artist Jason Shelowitz posted dozens of official-looking signs in stations warning commuters not to clip their nails on the subway.

"The sound is incredibly annoying and the nail bits go flying all over the place," the signs said.

"Also, keep your finger out of your nose," another sign said.

A Brooklyn graphic designer, Elizabeth Carey Smith, kept track of how many times fellow commuters offered her a seat on eight subway lines while she was pregnant. She posted a series of pie charts with the results online earlier this month. The G train, which connects Brooklyn and Queens, was the worst; the 1 and 6, linking Manhattan and the Bronx, and the A, running through Manhattan, Brooklyn and Queens, were the best.

Some riders say the underground dining is just part of New York, where a dose of weirdness comes free with every $2.50 subway fare.

During a 15-minute ride on the 6 train this week, a passenger could see: a man descending a stairway while baaing like a sheep, a pair of old men belting out "Papa was a Rolling Stone" at triple its normal speed and a woman in a huge, fur-lined parka hissing at two large rats on a platform.

Until smartphones invaded New York, such sights could only be enjoyed by locals or in the Metropolitan Diary feature in Monday's New York Times, where readers send in anecdotes about the city. But now the oddness is online for all to see.

In recent months, amateur videographers have recorded a rat scampering up the leg of a sleeping passenger, a shoving match between a passenger and a belligerent saxophonist and a commuter train barreling along an elevated track in Harlem with one of its doors stuck open.

Some riders wondered if the spaghetti scuffle was staged. Most have seen much worse violators of etiquette than the noodle-nosher in the video, said subway rider Shash Lachhman.

"I once saw somebody eating barbecued chicken with no napkins," Lachhman said. "But I still don't think you need a rule against it."


----------



## Nexis




----------



## Nexis




----------



## hoosier

ADCS said:


> Except that having a stable price is part and parcel of that public service. Part of the appeal of subsidized mass transit is that personal transportation costs can be anticipated and budgeted for. In a system with constantly fluctuating prices, this would be impossible. Not only that, but capital investment would be disincentivized, as price rationing (over the course of a day, extremely high during rush hour, extremely low overnight) of existing infrastructure would bring in the desired revenue while minimizing strain on the system. Of course, the point, as in every transportation system (including roads), is that strain is indicative of insufficient capacity, and a need for further capital improvements.
> 
> Transit serves as a multiplier of other economic activity. The more people it can serve, the better the multiplier effect.


That idiot is too fargone to understand the notion of mass transit as a public service. In his warped view of the world, nothing is to be exempt from the whimsical and deleterious vagaries of the "market."

Maybe fares should be set by the same speculators who jack up gas prices or crashed the economy in 2008? Suburbanist would wet himself with glee.


----------



## slipperydog

*Crazed Naked Guy Terrorizes New York City Subway Passengers*


----------



## Diego San

lol... crazy man, but the police man was too scared, wasn't him? He should have used the taser gun


----------



## Larmey

Our system is poorly maintained, always catching up with the rest of the major cities of the world, and is falling dangerously behind with the current difficulties in the economy. I'm very pessimistic... hno:


----------



## HARTride 2012

Nexis said:


> *Jamaica Center Bound R160A E Train @ Sutphin Blvd
> *


I like the R160A 

I've made a fantasy subway train that is based off a Paris, France subway train, but it runs like a R160A. :lol:


----------



## herenthere

This past week a preliminary framework was released for the next generation (current for most other transit systems in the world) of fare payment in NYC.

*MetroCard replacement to be an ‘E-ZPass for Transit’*
Benjamin Kabak
Second Avenue Sagas

While the demise of the MetroCard is still a few years away, the MTA already knows what its next-generation fare payment technology will resemble. In fact, the authority has produced a 140-page “Concept of Operations” that includes, according to the authority, “a detailed definition of what the MTA wants the system to do.” It does not, however, offer a technical solution for the system, and to that end, the authority will present its new fare payment system to an extensive group of industry experts this week. 

Article with link to PDF continues at: http://secondavenuesagas.com/2011/05/09/metrocard-replacement-to-be-an-e-zpass-for-transit/


----------



## hkskyline

So that Mastercard tap card trial a few years ago flopped?


----------



## IanCleverly




----------



## herenthere

hkskyline said:


> So that Mastercard tap card trial a few years ago flopped?


Not exactly. As far as I know, it was a testing ground to see how the technology would work and learn from any problems that would arise. They then used this trial to help publish that lengthy report detailing specifications on the future payment system. The report does stipulate that the NFPS should allow both bankcard (Mastercard, Visa, Amex...) and MTA-issued cards to be used. IMO, this complicates the infrastructure compared to Hong Kong's transit system, but since more people use / RFID technology is already present in most credit cards, this makes more sense.


----------



## Nexis




----------



## beanhead4529

Some photos taken by me:


What Goes Underground by beanhead4529, on Flickr



Rapid transit by beanhead4529, on Flickr



Steel Rush by beanhead4529, on Flickr



Leaving so quickly? by beanhead4529, on Flickr



Eighth Avenue Liner by beanhead4529, on Flickr



York Street Warning by beanhead4529, on Flickr



***** territory by beanhead4529, on Flickr



Summer Straphangers by beanhead4529, on Flickr


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## geoking66

^ Clark Street is my favourite subway stop. Great pic.


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## Sopomon

beanhead4529 said:


> Some photos taken by me:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rapid transit by beanhead4529, on Flickr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leaving so quickly? by beanhead4529, on Flickr
> 
> 
> 
> Eighth Avenue Liner by beanhead4529, on Flickr
> 
> 
> 
> York Street Warning by beanhead4529, on Flickr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Summer Straphangers by beanhead4529, on Flickr


Man the NYC underground is griiiiiimy haha, it has a certain steampunk charm to it though..


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## Fan Railer

Here's the collection of clips from 6/9/11 from all over the system. Enjoy and see if you can find the real gems in this set:


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## Fan Railer

And here's a set of clips from an earlier trip on 6/5/11:



























































Enjoy =D


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## Nexis

*(4)(6)*







DSC05091 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC05090 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*(7)*


DSC05035 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC05039 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC04982 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC04978 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC04979 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC04980 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC04981 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*(C)* *@ 14th Street *







DSC05099 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC05097 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC05092 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr



*(E)*







DSC05101 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*(L)*






*(N)(Q)* -* I heard announcements for both trains , but i forgot to write that down...so i don't know which train is which.*







DSC04985 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC04996 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC05000 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC05009 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


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## trainrover

^^ ^^ A picture of the route to the last four pictures shared just one post up was shown at the NYC transit museum some years ago at Grand Central. It revealed construction of that broad el through barren Queens, through a moonscape, no tree, nothing for miles around, 1920s/1930s. Any chance of such photos being shown on the Web, because my searches have revealed nought?

By the way I'm so impressed by what must've been retroffiting of the tracking and all its accessories atop the el itself, even the gleaming newly-painted green steel beaming appears sturdier(?).


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## Bart_LCY

What the heck is wrong with you people?? Is this an ego thing?? *Can you read the forum rules and learn about maximum number of pix/videos per post? *This page is a unreadable now.


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## Nexis

Bart_LCY said:


> What the heck is wrong with you people?? Is this an ego thing?? *Can you read the forum rules and learn about maximum number of pix/videos per post? *This page is a unreadable now.


I hate to say , but its an ego thing for Fan Railer , and i'm probably going to get shit on for saying that.....hno: My limit is 5 or 7 videos per threads , i also merge videos which saves space. For the 20 videos he posted he could have posted 1...


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## Fan Railer

Nexis said:


> I hate to say , but its an ego thing for Fan Railer , and i'm probably going to get shit on for saying that.....hno: My limit is 5 or 7 videos per threads , i also merge videos which saves space. For the 20 videos he posted he could have posted 1...


haha ego thing? more like i'm too lazy to just link a play list for the set, but i will be doing that next time. don't worry, i don't really care what other people say about me on these forums since it doesn't really affect me in any way, so whatevs.


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## Falubaz

^^Lazyness is ur excuse? That's even worse!


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## Fan Railer

Falubaz said:


> ^^Lazyness is ur excuse? That's even worse!


oh well... its probably the same amount of work to create a playlist actually...


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## ajw373

Fan Railer said:


> oh well... its probably the same amount of work to create a playlist actually...


Maybe, but it doesn't clog up the board with a zillion images that take ages to load. Not everyone in the world has a super fast internet service!


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## nenad_kgdc

Some stations and trains reminds to mine rail net, such a shame for the city of that rang.
It needs a huge retrofit and new trains.


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## ajw373

nenad_kgdc said:


> Some stations and trains reminds to mine rail net, such a shame for the city of that rang.
> It needs a huge retrofit and new trains.


They have a heap of new trains. They just look old, or should I say outdated when compared to what runs in Europe and Asia. Having said that technically they are modern and they do the job and do the job well. So guess horses for course.


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## Nexis

trainrover said:


> ^^ ^^ A picture of the route to the last four pictures shared just one post up was shown at the NYC transit museum some years ago at Grand Central. It revealed construction of that broad el through barren Queens, through a moonscape, no tree, nothing for miles around, 1920s/1930s. Any chance of such photos being shown on the Web, because my searches have revealed nought?
> 
> By the way I'm so impressed by what must've been retroffiting of the tracking and all its accessories atop the el itself, even the gleaming newly-painted green steel beaming appears sturdier(?).


You mean the 7 train Viaduct through Queens , this is the start of that. As for the replacing of the viaduct , there slowly doing that on certain lines. Unlike Philly were they used Concrete to replace the Viaduct , NY is still using steel.


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## trainrover

Sorry, it wasn't the 7. I'd swear the breadth of the el under construction was four tracks.

There was something (I can't remember exactly) baffling about looking at the photo of that whole 'build it and they shall come' notion inherent in this barren landscape...or maybe it was merely the billboard size of the photo that was flummoxing.

Edit:

I finally just found one, which turns out to be the 7, afterall, by a Herbert Maruska, Queens Blvd, 1917:
​Barren I tell ya!






nenad_kgdc said:


> Some stations and trains reminds to mine rail net, such a shame for the city of that rang.
> It needs a huge retrofit and new trains.


"Shame"? I'd take a look again  I mean, they even have spanking-brand new yellow worktrains (right?! :shifty
Note: To Date, 229 photos tagged "construction" must load to fully view linked Webpage...
​​


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## Suburbanist

*Unrelated questions*

I have a bunch of unrelated questions about NYC subway:


Why are some services named after letters, and others after numbers?
What is the whole point and fuss about that 7 Subway Extension, given it will feature just one extra station near the Hudson? Isn't it too much brouhaha for just one station?
 Are there any consisting plans to install Platform Screening Doors on NY subway?
 Which signaling protocol is used on the network and is it the same for all lines?


----------



## Nexis

Suburbanist said:


> I have a bunch of unrelated questions about NYC subway:
> 
> 
> Why are some services named after letters, and others after numbers?
> What is the whole point and fuss about that 7 Subway Extension, given it will feature just one extra station near the Hudson? Isn't it too much brouhaha for just one station?
> Are there any consisting plans to install Platform Screening Doors on NY subway?
> Which signaling protocol is used on the network and is it the same for all lines?


1. Different companies built different parts of the system , but i don't know why there numbers on some lines and letters on others. 

2. The 7 line is now a waste of a project due to the lack of funding for the 10th Ave station. Your right extending it one station is a waste , this project is also tied to a muti-billion redevelopment project so it got approved and pushed through faster and built faster then the SAS which is badly needed but isn't getting the attention of this extension. Some plans later include adding a station in at 10th Ave , Extending it to NJ which is unlikely due to rules preventing the subway from leaving NYC , or Penn station extension which is more likely.

3. The only stations that will or might get Platform screen doors will be along the Second Ave Subway (SAS) and the 7 line extension.

4. The Signals are the same for the entire system...


----------



## napkcirtap

Nexis said:


> 1. Different companies built different parts of the system , but i don't know why there numbers on some lines and letters on others.
> 
> 2. The 7 line is now a waste of a project due to the lack of funding for the 10th Ave station. Your right extending it one station is a waste , this project is also tied to a muti-billion redevelopment project so it got approved and pushed through faster and built faster then the SAS which is badly needed but isn't getting the attention of this extension. Some plans later include adding a station in at 10th Ave , Extending it to NJ which is unlikely due to rules preventing the subway from leaving NYC , or Penn station extension which is more likely.
> 
> 3. The only stations that will or might get Platform screen doors will be along the Second Ave Subway (SAS) and the 7 line extension.
> 
> 4. The Signals are the same for the entire system...


1. IRT- numbers;IND+BMT - Letters


----------



## MarneGator

@Suburbanist
1: as mentioned above, three companies built the lines and all but the last (IND) had internal numbering systems for the various lines; the BMT and later IND started using a lettering system when the subway was unified in 1940. I don't know why the IRT lines remained numbers, but it probably has something to do with the fact that it's a physically separate system (minus one track connection for work trains) with different dimensions for the trains and tunnels, a historical reminder of sorts.
3: the MTA has indicated that it wants to install platform doors at ALL stations, but financial woes being what they are, this is a low priority. Expect completion well after we're all dead.
4: the subway uses wayside signals controlled by track circuits with human operation near some interlockings (all?) Basically, signal tech and operation from the early 20th century. The Canarsie Line / L train uses CBTC for moving-block signals, but I don't think the MTA lets it run fully automated so the old signals might still be used there. The Flushing Line / 7 train is scheduled to receive CBTC technology in the coming years.


----------



## Nexis

MarneGator said:


> @Suburbanist
> 1: as mentioned above, three companies built the lines and all but the last (IND) had internal numbering systems for the various lines; the BMT and later IND started using a lettering system when the subway was unified in 1940. I don't know why the IRT lines remained numbers, but it probably has something to do with the fact that it's a physically separate system (minus one track connection for work trains) with different dimensions for the trains and tunnels, a historical reminder of sorts.
> 3: *the MTA has indicated that it wants to install platform doors at ALL stations, but financial woes being what they are, this is a low priority. Expect completion well after we're all dead.*
> 4: the subway uses wayside signals controlled by track circuits with human operation near some interlockings (all?) Basically, signal tech and operation from the early 20th century. The Canarsie Line / L train uses CBTC for moving-block signals, but I don't think the MTA lets it run fully automated so the old signals might still be used there. The Flushing Line / 7 train is scheduled to receive CBTC technology in the coming years.


They have not , they've only considered them Extensions. They have been upgrading a decent amount of stations over the past few months , i think they would have installed them by now.


----------



## HARTride 2012

*The entire Line F*

Yes, that's right! We have the entire Line F, in-cab, onboard a R160A train. 

_All videos were taken by 46arthurdu_

Jamaica 179 St. to Forest Hills-71 Ave





Forest Hills-71 Ave to 21 St.-Queensbridge





21 St.-Queensbridge to 47-50 St.-Rockefeller Ctr





47-50 St.-Rockefeller Ctr. to Broadway-Lafayette





Broadway-Lafayette to Jay St-Metrotech





Jay St.-Metrotech to 7th Ave.





7th Ave. to Ditmas Ave.





Ditmas Ave. to King Hwy.





Kings Hwy. to Coney Island-Stillwell Ave.





It is too bad that YouTube wouldn't let him load the videos that had captions of all of the station names. But they are still good videos.


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## HARTride 2012

Nexis said:


> They have not , they've only considered them Extensions. They have been upgrading a decent amount of stations over the past few months , i think they would have installed them by now.


They should install platform doors whereever they can, especially busy stations.

Here is a station from the Paris, France subway, Gare de Lyon.



Minato ku said:


>


If each subway station had doors like these, that would help ease congestion on some of the busiest lines and allow the trains to run more efficiently.


----------



## Jim856796

The current project for the 2nd Avenue Subway is NYC's last chance. The project was first proposed in the 1920s and has been delayed several times since. The varying construction methods are as follows:
* Tunnel Boring Machine (8 sections)
* Cut and Cover (6 sections)
* Mined with Cut and Cover (4 sections)
* plus 3 already-existing sections of the line
(I already know what Cut and Cover is, but not "_Mined with_ Cut and Cover". Is it the same thing or is it different?)

And about the proposed 7 Subway Extension, with any potential extension to New Jersey, can the New York city subway system be taken out of the NYC city limits?


----------



## MarneGator

@Nexis: the MTA does want it systemwide and is looking into it - http://secondavenuesagas.com/2011/02/01/transit-exploring-glass-doors-for-platform-edges/ The extensions are very likely to get them, but so will the rest of the system; the time frame for the two is what's very different.
@Jim856796: "mined with cut and cover" is how the stations will get built: the TBM will go through an area and then they will do cut and cover work, hence "mined with..."


----------



## Nexis

Jim856796 said:


> The current project for the 2nd Avenue Subway is NYC's last chance. The project was first proposed in the 1920s and has been delayed several times since. The varying construction methods are as follows:
> * Tunnel Boring Machine (8 sections)
> * Cut and Cover (6 sections)
> * Mined with Cut and Cover (4 sections)
> * plus 3 already-existing sections of the line
> (I already know what Cut and Cover is, but not "_Mined with_ Cut and Cover". Is it the same thing or is it different?)
> 
> *And about the proposed 7 Subway Extension, with any potential extension to New Jersey, can the New York city subway system be taken out of the NYC city limits?*


The 7 line to NJ is dead , The Subway can't leave NYC. + Amtrak and the MTA have plans to push the 7 into Penn station as part of the Penn station Expansion project.


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
I was about to say......cause wouldn't the 7 require the tunnel connection that the NJ Gov killed?


----------



## Nexis

HARTride 2012 said:


> ^^
> I was about to say......cause wouldn't the 7 require the tunnel connection that the NJ Gov killed?


No it would be a New Tunnel , but the Politics , different Hudson River Agencies and cost , along with rules preventing the Subway from leaving the City would ensure it never leaves the City. The Amtrak plan calls for it to be pulled down into the New Penn station for a cheaper cost and the New Gateway Tunnels will relieve Regional Rail pressure.... Thus killing any extension to Jersey.


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## trainrover

I've never seen the centre track of any three-tracked NYC line being used. Briefly, how/when is the centre track in service?


----------



## Nexis

trainrover said:


> I've never seen the centre track of any three-tracked NYC line being used. Briefly, how/when is the centre track in service?


Inbound or Outbound Express Rush hour trains use them. Inbound during the morning rush and outbound during the evening rush , there also used to relive stress during gaming events and other special things. There are also underground Double Decker subways , Express's run below , while locals run on the second underground level , we have 4 track underground lines aswell.


----------



## trainrover

HARTride 2012 said:


> 21 St.-Queensbridge to 47-50 St.-Rockefeller Ctr


Do you know whether the service speed along the first 5½-minute-3-station stretch has always been that slow, or has the video playback speed itself indeed been slowed? (Plus, how come youtube's labelled the start as being 21 Street when this month's edition of the map shows no such place as being called at there [Manhattan?]?)


----------



## HARTride 2012

trainrover said:


> Do you know whether the service speed along the first 5½-minute-3-station stretch has always been that slow, or has the video playback speed itself indeed been slowed? (Plus, how come youtube's labelled the start as being 21 Street when this month's edition of the map shows no such place as being called at there [Manhattan?]?)


I would not think it is the video. But then again, this isn't my video lol (You will find the name of the creator at the very top of my post).

As to your second point, I have no clue.


----------



## geoking66

trainrover said:


> (Plus, how come youtube's labelled the start as being 21 Street when this month's edition of the map shows no such place as being called at there [Manhattan?]?)


21st Street-Queensbridge is in Queens; the video is showing the F crossing the East River into Manhattan; the train will eventually head downtown in Manhattan and across the East River again into Brooklyn.


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## Nexis

*IRT R62A 7 Express From 42 St. Times Square To Main St. Flushing*


----------



## MarneGator

It was mentioned on the previous page that the 7 train extension would have a single station. Well, some good news! Although there won't be a station at 10 Ave when the extension itself opens, there _was_ space set aside underground for its future construction... when the half-billion dollar price tag can be met


----------



## State of the Union

Looking at videos and such of the NYC Subway, the stations on the elevated portions are so close to each other. Could someone explain to me why that is?

I'd imagine riding on the local trains, these would not be much faster than riding a city bus. Heck, here in LA the Limited Stop Bus Service like the Metro, Culver City, or Santa Monica Big Blue Bus _Rapid_ have stops further apart than that....


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## MarneGator

^It's not just the elevated sections; the older lines, elevated or underground, have relatively short spacing, something on the order of .25 miles between stops. More modern lines, like the 8 Ave Line (1932), have more contemporary spacing – ~ .5 miles. Part of the reason there was short spacing for the older segments of the subway is that the private companies that built the infrastructure in the late 19th / early 20th century wanted to maximize the amount of ridership by putting as many stops as possible for a given distance. In fact, several stations were as close as a tenth of a mile and considering the decrease in speed and additional maintenance costs, the city saw it fit to close several stations after the subway was unified after 1940 (18 St on the Lexington Ave Line, for example). Also, this isn't wholly unique to New York: the Paris Metro has short spacing.
In terms of distance, buses may travel faster than parts of the subway in a given time. However, the roads that run above or below the subway are usually the more prone to congestion and considering the generally short bus spacing, the subway makes for faster travel along any given route.


----------



## State of the Union

MarneGator said:


> ^It's not just the elevated sections; the older lines, elevated or underground, have relatively short spacing, something on the order of .25 miles between stops. More modern lines, like the 8 Ave Line (1932), have more contemporary spacing – ~ .5 miles. Part of the reason there was short spacing for the older segments of the subway is that the private companies that built the infrastructure in the late 19th / early 20th century wanted to maximize the amount of ridership by putting as many stops as possible for a given distance. In fact, several stations were as close as a tenth of a mile and considering the decrease in speed and additional maintenance costs, the city saw it fit to close several stations after the subway was unified after 1940 (18 St on the Lexington Ave Line, for example). Also, this isn't wholly unique to New York: the Paris Metro has short spacing.
> In terms of distance, buses may travel faster than parts of the subway in a given time. However, the roads that run above or below the subway are usually the more prone to congestion and considering the generally short bus spacing, the subway makes for faster travel along any given route.


Thanks for the info...didn't know the subways were built by private companies.

The congestion is mostly because of size of New York city streets, that van literally has to back up for the bus:





So when you do the math(Streets too small for the bus itself + the traffic = too slow for it's own good) then it's no wonder why the subway can get away such close spacing. In contrast to the LA Metro Rapid 740 and 710 and their NABI 60-BRTs easily fly down Crenshaw Bl with no issues.


----------



## herenthere

No, offense, and I welcome all the new interest and posters, but many of the recent questions can easily be resolved by searching the internet for history about the NYC Subway (and by looking at the subway map carefully).

Try:
http://nycsubway.org/ - great collection of info and pictures of system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway - Wikipedia, of course
http://secondavenuesagas.com/ - Subscribe to this blog to stay up-to-date on NYC transit related stuff



trainrover said:


> I've never seen the centre track of any three-tracked NYC line being used. Briefly, how/when is the centre track in service?


Try taking the 7 train during rush hours. Express service to Manhattan during the morning, and towards Queens in the afternoon/evening. The track merges between 33-Rawson Sts and Queensboro Plaza.

The JZ line also uses the middle track rush hours as well, I believe.


----------



## MarneGator

@State of the Union
I just looked through the MTA's listed schedules and the local trains tend to be quite a lot faster than the buses, despite the generally short subway station spacing. In Manhattan, going from 125 Street to Houston and Lexington, takes 25 minutes on the 6 train (Lexington Ave Local), 75 minutes on the M15 bus (2 Ave), about 59 minutes on the M101 Limited bus (Lexington Ave), and about 54 minutes on the M15 SBS (2 Ave). (2 Ave parallels and is within a stone's throw of Lexington Ave) Taking the example of the 7 train in Queens, the 7 (local) takes 12 minutes to go from 74 St to Queensboro Plaza while the Q32 bus (runs below the 7 train viaduct) takes about 30 minutes for roughly the same distance. Of course traffic conditions and boardings may speed or slow things down further for the buses, but you can see they come up well short of the subway along similar routes.
On that note, average station spacing for the proposed full-length 2 Ave Line is more in line with contemporary transit standards, about .6 miles, which means about 30% fewer stops between 125 St and Chatham Square for the proposed T train versus the existing 6 train (14 vs 20 stops, respectively). The 6 train makes that run in 30 minutes. Considering a train loses about a minute between the time it starts decelerating and then leaving a station, the T should be expected to make the run in 24 minutes, five minutes short of the express train; take another two-and-a-bit minutes off for the straighter alignment and overall better average speed and the T should be within a minute or so of the Lexington Ave express trains for equivalent distances.
Buses shouldn't be competing with the subway, of course, but they should be as good as possible to complement the system, connect the urban area as best as possible. With that said, buses aren't hampered so much by narrow streets – most of the streets the buses run on are over two lanes wide and you can always make bus-only lanes – but rather by slow boardings, very frequent stations stops, and yes, the traffic. Likewise, traffic isn't aggravated by those narrows streets. Instead, it's the density of car traffic: well over 500,000 cars enter the lower 2/3 of Manhattan; there's only so much asphalt available for all types of automotive traffic. Considering buses operate in that environment, it can only move as fast as traffic, not to mention competing for entrance after making a stop. Eliminate the low 1/8 mile distance between bus stops and the average speed would pick up dramatically, simply by virtue of flowing with traffic rather than fighting it at every block. Couple that with faster boardings like the MTA finally does with the M15 and Bx12 buses and the buses wouldn't be two to three times as slow as existing local trains.
I've never really looked at LA's bus performance nor do I have any first-hand observations, but I'm willing to bet that your impression of LA's better bus performance is attributable to the operational elements I just mentioned rather than the prevalence of wide streets.


----------



## geoking66

MarneGator said:


> In Manhattan, going from 125 Street to Houston and Lexington, takes 25 minutes on the 6 train (Lexington Ave Local), 75 minutes on the M15 bus (2 Ave), about 59 minutes on the M101 Limited bus (Lexington Ave), and about 54 minutes on the M15 SBS (2 Ave). (2 Ave parallels and is within a stone's throw of Lexington Ave) Taking the example of the 7 train in Queens, the 7 (local) takes 12 minutes to go from 74 St to Queensboro Plaza while the Q32 bus (runs below the 7 train viaduct) takes about 30 minutes for roughly the same distance. Of course traffic conditions and boardings may speed or slow things down further for the buses, but you can see they come up well short of the subway along similar routes.


I don't want to be picky, but there's no stop on the Lex at Houston and below Grand Central the line runs under Park Avenue South, Lafayette Street, and Broadway.

I don't know why anyone would be surprised that the subway runs faster; after all, it has its own right of way, signalling et al. Remember that dwell times are pretty short (about 20-30sec) per station, so for much of the time the train is moving. And express trains can easily hit and maintain 45 or so on a nice stretch, even approaching 55 on long stretches such as the 8th Avenue Line between 59th and 125th.

On a side note, the origin of the numbers/letters designation comes from the fact that the IRT began to name its routes numerically in the 1910s upon the completion of the "H" system and severance of the East and West Side Lines. In the 1930s, upon the opening of the IND, single and double letters were used to designate service (A was express, AA was local), with the lettering system eventually being placed onto BMT lines after the subways were integrated. The MTA eliminated double letters in the 1980s for simplicity's sake.


----------



## State of the Union

MarneGator said:


> @State of the Union
> I just looked through the MTA's listed schedules and the local trains tend to be quite a lot faster than the buses, despite the generally short subway station spacing. In Manhattan, going from 125 Street to Houston and Lexington, takes 25 minutes on the 6 train (Lexington Ave Local), 75 minutes on the M15 bus (2 Ave), about 59 minutes on the M101 Limited bus (Lexington Ave), and about 54 minutes on the M15 SBS (2 Ave). (2 Ave parallels and is within a stone's throw of Lexington Ave) Taking the example of the 7 train in Queens, the 7 (local) takes 12 minutes to go from 74 St to Queensboro Plaza while the Q32 bus (runs below the 7 train viaduct) takes about 30 minutes for roughly the same distance. Of course traffic conditions and boardings may speed or slow things down further for the buses, but you can see they come up well short of the subway along similar routes.
> On that note, average station spacing for the proposed full-length 2 Ave Line is more in line with contemporary transit standards, about .6 miles, which means about 30% fewer stops between 125 St and Chatham Square for the proposed T train versus the existing 6 train (14 vs 20 stops, respectively). The 6 train makes that run in 30 minutes. Considering a train loses about a minute between the time it starts decelerating and then leaving a station, the T should be expected to make the run in 24 minutes, five minutes short of the express train; take another two-and-a-bit minutes off for the straighter alignment and overall better average speed and the T should be within a minute or so of the Lexington Ave express trains for equivalent distances.
> Buses shouldn't be competing with the subway, of course, but they should be as good as possible to complement the system, connect the urban area as best as possible. With that said, buses aren't hampered so much by narrow streets – most of the streets the buses run on are over two lanes wide and you can always make bus-only lanes – but rather by slow boardings, very frequent stations stops, and yes, the traffic. Likewise, traffic isn't aggravated by those narrows streets. Instead, it's the density of car traffic: well over 500,000 cars enter the lower 2/3 of Manhattan; there's only so much asphalt available for all types of automotive traffic. Considering buses operate in that environment, it can only move as fast as traffic, not to mention competing for entrance after making a stop. Eliminate the low 1/8 mile distance between bus stops and the average speed would pick up dramatically, simply by virtue of flowing with traffic rather than fighting it at every block. Couple that with faster boardings like the MTA finally does with the M15 and Bx12 buses and the buses wouldn't be two to three times as slow as existing local trains.
> I've never really looked at LA's bus performance nor do I have any first-hand observations, but I'm willing to bet that your impression of LA's better bus performance is attributable to the operational elements I just mentioned rather than the prevalence of wide streets.


Wilshire Blvd is the only street that literally becomes a stand still regardless. The added fact that you 60ft buses on the Rapid 720 with peak headways reaching down to just *2 Minutes*(you heard me, 2 f-ing minutes. on wilshire, I guarantee you will never have seen so many 60ft buses in revenue service at once in a single sight) then it becomes a nightmare. Other than that, most routes get by without any issues though we have our fair share of slow boarding since it's not uncommon to see almost 20 people at a rapid stop. 

I am well aware the select bus service. I would like to see how it compares to the subway performance. The +SBS+ even has it's own bus lane and pre-payment before boarding so it should rival the subway performance, correct?

And 1/8 mile bus stops? What is it with New York and having close spacing?


----------



## Dallas star

Oh how I wish I lived up there.


----------



## Suburbanist

Nexis said:


> Some trains are different lengths and the doors are different , so it wouldn't work at all.


You can solve that with either panel doors (opening vertically) or 3-layered movable PSDs that accommodate many different train configurations. But that starts being really expensive.


----------



## MarneGator

geoking66 said:


> I agree that the Queens Boulevard Line works incredibly well, but remember that part of this is that the express tracks actually diverge between Queens Plaza and Jackson Heights so as to shorten the express track length by around a third, almost halving the total trip time via express. Also is that the IND was designed more as a commuting system rather than the IRT and BMT's view of the subway as a passenger distribution system (ie local lines tend to stay within Manhattan and the Bronx while express lines operate as locals further out; while this pattern does exist on the IND it's less prevalent). Take the E for example, it runs express on Queens Boulevard and then local underneath Eighth Avenue, meaning that passengers don't have to transfer. In essence, by reducing station stops not only in Queens but also in Manhattan, passengers are given a more "direct" trip than they would on the IRT or BMT..


 I think you mean "shorten the express track length by around a third of a mile", or an effect of ~30 seconds on travel time.
I don't think I'd argue that the IND was more of a commuter-type system vis-a-vis the older lines, but that their philosophy on service was a little different: instead of merging two lines at one ROW and using one as express and the other local, the IND tried to create lines with local and express service everywhere - sounds like the ideal realization of the local-express concept. (Of course, they had to ruin it, IMO, with the degree of interlining that was designed). Perhaps I've just argued _for_ your point, but the way I see it, IND construction still fits more the pattern of rapid-transit service than S-Bahn or pure commuter rail service because their infrastructure, sans the additions in the post-unification days, allows for nearly uniform capacity even at the branch ends, something that can't be said of more commuter-type service (or even of the subway with contemporary service patterns)



Nexis said:


> Thats to expensive , and the MTA probably won't do that in my lifetime....they expand the system twice over ....but never add Platform Screen doors.... Some trains are different lengths and the doors are different , so it wouldn't work at all.





Suburbanist said:


> You can solve that with either panel doors (opening vertically) or 3-layered movable PSDs that accommodate many different train configurations. But that starts being really expensive.


This is part of the MTA's reasoning to just purchase 60 foot B-Division cars in the future: keep the door pattern consistent. It'll be quite some time before the MTA begins installing platform doors system-wide, so the subway fleet should be of uniform design by that time and the engineering considerations for said doors should be at their more basic.


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## trainrover

Nexis said:


> but the noise issue mostly applies to the older cars.....which are louder. Honestly theres not much you can do for the station noise.


I disagree about mitigating the noise. Might the operating authority have any plan when its new cars come to age to noisy strata?


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## IrishMan2010

Nexis said:


> That station is not the loudest , 14th Street Union SQ , and Grand Central are the 2 worst for noise. Some of the tunnels and curves are bad aswell , but the noise issue mostly applies to the older cars.....which are louder. Honestly theres not much you can do for the station noise.


Is the station noise really that bad on the ears?


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## trainrover

I'd at least bet it be bad for dynamic conversations down in them (all those noisy interruptions)...besides, it's bad for folks whose hearing's compromised.


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## dachacon

The MTA really needs to start looking at constructing new lines around the other 4 boroughs in the the city. The old planning commissions plan of having everything centered around Manhantten worked and the subway system does a good job of servicing the area, but now the focus needs to be on how Brooklyn and Harlem, and Queens can move in and about themselves. 
Just a thought to try and provoke some conversation.


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## Chrizzle

Harlem belongs to Manhattan and is well served imo


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## GENIUS LOCI

Maybe he wanted to say Bronx


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## sweet-d

I do think other Boroughs need more lines not necessarily more subway lines but more elevated lines if it can be done at a cheaper price.


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## tyork

I am all for expanding the subway but before they sink large quantities of money into expanding the system, they need to replace/expand the aging highway/parkway infrastructure first... which I feel would benefit the boroughs a lot more than new rapid transit lines.


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## Nexis

tyork said:


> I am all for expanding the subway but before they sink large quantities of money into expanding the system, they need to replace/expand the aging highway/parkway infrastructure first... which I feel would benefit the boroughs a lot more than new rapid transit lines.


No a better outer borough Rapid Transit system would benefit the ppl more then better highways...theres not much you can do to the highway system.


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## Suburbanist

Nexis said:


> No a better outer borough Rapid Transit system would benefit the ppl more then better highways...theres not much you can do to the highway system.


At least you need to keep the structure in a good state of repair.


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## geoking66

dachacon said:


> The MTA really needs to start looking at constructing new lines around the other 4 boroughs in the the city. The old planning commissions plan of having everything centered around Manhantten worked and the subway system does a good job of servicing the area, but now the focus needs to be on how Brooklyn and Harlem, and Queens can move in and about themselves.
> Just a thought to try and provoke some conversation.


Had the Great Depression not crushed its aspirations, the IND would have doubled overall route milage in Queens as well as create new trunk lines in Manhattan. Alas it never happened, but some of the preparations for future extensions are present throughout the B Division.


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## tyork

Nexis said:


> No a better outer borough Rapid Transit system would benefit the ppl more then better highways...theres not much you can do to the highway system.


Expanding the Belt Parkway is something they can feasibly do, and expanding that road would greatly improve the quality of life for the residents of Brooklyn and Queens a lot more than building new subway lines. Where would these new lines go even? Why do you feel they will be needed more than expanding roads? Every Borough aside from Staten Island has decent subway coverage with bus routes providing supplement service.


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## Nexis

tyork said:


> Expanding the Belt Parkway is something they can feasibly do, and expanding that road would greatly improve the quality of life for the residents of Brooklyn and Queens a lot more than building new subway lines. Where would these new lines go even? Why do you feel they will be needed more than expanding roads? Every Borough aside from Staten Island has decent subway coverage with bus routes providing supplement service.


You can expand the belt parkway , there is no more room , same with all the Urban Jersey Highways and NYC. And NIMBYs would slow any attempted at doing that.... They need to restore Train stations on the LIRR and expand that network to fill in the many gaps in the Subway system....and the restoring the stations is cheaper.... What would expanding Highways do? Most people in Urban Jersey and NYC use transit....it would do very little...


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## Nexis

Suburbanist said:


> At least you need to keep the structure in a good state of repair.


There are plans to burial I-278 through Brooklyn but that's a decade away...


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## tyork

Ok then, what new lines would you propose? And where?


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## Nexis

tyork said:


> Ok then, what new lines would you propose? And where?


No New lines but restored stations , that would reduce the strain on the current subway system and local bus system , and fill the gaps in parts of Eastern Queens.... Metro North already plans to do this in the Bronx along the New Haven line extension and in Manhattan along the Hudson line extension. LIRR already has a small RER type system within NYC , some people have proposed expanding this...

*Current / Future City Terminal zone , New stations are underlined
*
*Long Island Railroad 
**Atlantic Branch
*Atlantic Terminal
Nostrand Avenue
East New York
Jamaica
Linden Boulevard
Locust Manor
Laurelton
Rosedale
Valley Stream

* Montauk Branch
*Long Island City
Maspeth 
Fresh Pond
Glendale
Richmond Hill
Jamaica
St. Albans
Farmers Boulevard


*Port Washington Branch
*Penn station
Woodside
Elmhurst
Corona
Mets–Willets Point
Flushing Main Street
Murray Hill
Broadway
Auburndale
Bayside
Douglaston
Little Neck

*Main line
*Penn Station
Sunnyside
Woodside
Forest Hills
Kew Gardens
Jamaica
Hollis
Francis Lewis Boulevard
Queens Village

*JFK Airtrain Connection
*Jamaica
Liberty Ave
Linden boulevard
Rockaway Boulevard
Lefferts Boulevard
Howard Beach

*City Ring Railway - could be a Metro aswell....and use abandoned Freight tracks in Queens , Brooklyn , SI and NJ
*Grand Central
Sunnyside
Woodside
Middle Village
Ridgewood
East New York
Linden Boulevard
Remsen Ave
East Flatbush
Flatbush Ave
Ocean Parkway
Fort Hamilton Parkway
St. George Station
Botanical Gardens / SI
Bayonne
Midtown Elizabeth
Cranford 

*Metro North *

*Hudson line - Penn Station Extension
*Penn Station
West 62nd Street 
West 125th Street 
Dyckman St
Riverdale
Yonkers

*New Haven line - Penn Station Extension
*Penn Station
Sunnyside
Hunts Point 
Parkchester
Co-Op City
New Rochelle
Harrison
Stamford


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## hoosier

The last thing the Greater NYC metro area needs to do is cater to the automobile. Robert Moses almost destroyed NYC with his highway building orgy. Only recently has the city population stabilized and begun to increase again.

NYC is a mass transit mecca. It is far too large to rely on the automobile as the primary transportation choice. There would either be 30 lane freeways or constant gridlock.

Basic rehabilitation of roads is fine, but any transportation expansion must be rail based- it is the only form that can has the capacity to move enough people and not consume vast amounts of precious space (like a freeway would).


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## trainrover

^^

http://kelsocartography.com/blog/?p=497

or

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/toc/2008/06/30/toc_20080623


----------



## QueenZBee

Oh to have had the love of riding in such a stunning creation. Thanks for posting. I'll dream of this next time I'm on the subway this summer...


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## trainrover

Regrettably, somebody answered me a few days ago that odours still foul many NYC subway platforms :dunno:


----------



## primus20

new york need something like this:


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## trainrover




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## trainrover




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## trainrover

-- love the mood-inspiring red car


----------



## trainrover




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## trainrover




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## trainrover

Something tells me that only a small fraction of all those subway passengers must've been rail fans :dunno:


----------



## Alargule

donaldsmith said:


> New york subway is amazing company and very large business i think new york subway provide the comfortable facilities and subway leading ship and first i told you main thing is designing i really like it


Lol wut?


----------



## Attus

What's the current situation? Is the whole network out of work?


----------



## diablo234

Attus said:


> What's the current situation? Is the whole network out of work?


Yup, the entire network will shut down today at noon in preparation for Irene.


----------



## HARTride 2012

Shutdown is underway now.


----------



## trainrover

No youtube member's on-site video of any of today's shutdown posted yet...


----------



## speedy1979

The people who could post a video are mta employees and they are probably very busy.


----------



## bd popeye

Hurricane Irene: NYC subways shut down



> NEW YORK - The nation's largest subway system began to shut down Saturday and the typically bustling city became unusually quiet as the first rain from Hurricane Irene fell on Manhattan.
> 
> Sidewalks, streets and bridges were nearly empty. Broadway shows were canceled. Businesses were closed and subway riders raced to catch the last trains. More 370,000 people in flood-prone areas have been told to get out ahead of the storm, the first time such an evacuation order was issued for the city.
> 
> At the Seventh Avenue station in Brooklyn's Park Slope section, more than a dozen people waited for one of the final subway runs.
> 
> "What I'm hoping is that they will run trains for the next hour or two to pick up the stragglers," said Kate Sandberg, who was headed to visit a friend.
> 
> The city had begged people for days not to wait until the last minute, and offered rides out of the danger area to residents who needed it. Nursing homes and hospitals started evacuating people Thursday.
> 
> It was the first time the city has shut down the entire subway system because of a natural disaster. Final subway and bus runs started at noon and it would take about eight hours before the entire transit system was shuttered, city officials said.
> 
> Several New York landmarks were inside the evacuation zone, including the ferries that take tourists to the Statue of Liberty. Construction stopped throughout the city, and workers at the site of the World Trade Center dismantled a crane and secured equipment.
> 
> Mayor Michael Bloomberg said there would be no effect on the Sept. 11 memorial opening the day after the 10th anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
> 
> On Wall Street, sandbags were placed around subway grates nearest the East River, which is expected to surge as the hurricane nears New York.
> 
> Bloomberg warned those who decided to stay that elevators in public housing apartments would be shut down. Other high-rises were also likely to stop elevators so people don't get trapped inside them if the power does go out. And the city's largest utility said it may cut off power to 6,500 customers in Lower Manhattan and Wall Street if the flooding gets bad. Turning off electricity ahead of time helps reduce the damage to power lines.
> 
> The transit system won't reopen until at least Monday, after pumps remove water from flooded subway stations. Even on a dry day, 13 million to 15 million gallons of water are removed from the tunnels deep underground. The Long Island Rail Road and other tracks were also being stopped.
> 
> The city's public transit system carries about 5 million passengers on an average weekday and officials didn't immediately report any problems during the final hours of the evacuation.
> 
> At the foot of the Brooklyn Bridge, stragglers scurried down the steps of the 4 and 5 lines to Brooklyn.
> 
> "This makes my day!" Randy Callo said as the doors closed on one of the final trains.
> 
> Salvatore Laudadio missed that train, and was sweating it out for one more ride to Brooklyn. He had already been on several buses and subway transfers.
> 
> "I got kind of a late start so I've been a little worried but I think this will all work out," he said, holding his bags.
> 
> Then the train rolled up and he got on.
> 
> The last time the system was seriously hobbled was an August 2007 rainstorm that disabled or delayed every one of the city's subway lines. It was also shut down after the 9/11 attacks and during a 2005 strike.
> 
> In Brooklyn's famed Coney Island, known for its boardwalk and amusement park, Bloomberg urged residents who needed to leave to get out right away.
> 
> "Staying behind is dangerous, staying behind is foolish, and it's against the law, and we urge everyone in the evacuation zones not to wait until gale-force winds," he said at a news conference. "The time to leave is right now."
> 
> Transit fares and tolls were waived in evacuated areas. Officials hoped most residents would stay with family and friends, and nearly 100 shelters, with a capacity of 71,000 people, were opened.
> 
> At 17 Battery Place, a 36-floor luxury rental building, Daryl Edelman and his wife, Regina, were leaving - suitcase packed and their small white dog, Bitsy Bananas, tucked into a case.
> 
> "What the mayor did - shutting down the transportation system - is more dangerous than the storm," said Daryl Edelman, a comic book writer. "People could be left stranded - especially the elderly."
> 
> Bloomberg said he hoped the evacuation wasn't necessary, but officials needed to be cautious with what is considered a dangerous storm.
> 
> "You can't prepare for the best case. You have to prepare for the worst case," he said.
> 
> Bloomberg weathered criticism after a Dec. 26 storm dumped nearly two feet of snow that seemed to catch officials by surprise. Subway trains, buses and ambulances got stuck in the snow, some for hours, and streets were impassable for days. Bloomberg ultimately called it an "inadequate and unacceptable" response.
> 
> Taxis in New York City were to switch from metered fares to zone fares, meaning riders would be charged by which part of the city they were being driven to, rather than how far they were being taken.
> 
> About 4,500 taxis were on the streets of Manhattan, which was just below an average day.
> 
> Cab driver Mohammed Hassan started a shift early Saturday at his home in the Bay Ridge section of Brooklyn and made his way to midtown Manhattan. Downtown was already empty, he said.
> 
> "If it's dangerous, I'm going home," said Hassan, a cabbie for 28 years. But "I need the money."
> 
> The five main New York City-area airports also closed at noon Saturday to arriving domestic and international flights. Three of them, Kennedy, LaGuardia and Newark Liberty, are among the nation's busiest.
> 
> Irene made landfall in North Carolina on Saturday, and was expected to roll up the Interstate 95 corridor reaching New York on Sunday. A hurricane warning was issued for the city Friday afternoon, the first since Gloria in 1985.
> 
> "Heed the warnings," Bloomberg urged, his shirt soaking as the rain fell. "It isn't cute to say I'm tougher than any storm.' I hope this is not necessary, but it's certainly prudent."
> 
> About 1.6 million people live in Manhattan, and about 6.8 million live in the city's other four boroughs.
> 
> In the past 200 years, New York has seen only a few significant hurricanes. In September 1821, a hurricane raised tides by 13 feet in an hour and flooded the southernmost tip of Manhattan in an area that now includes Wall Street and the World Trade Center memorial. In 1938, a storm dubbed the Long Island Express came ashore about 75 miles east of the city on neighboring Long Island and then hit New England, killing 700 people and leaving 63,000 homeless.
> 
> And in 1944, Midtown was flooded, where Times Square, Broadway theaters and the Empire State Building are located.


----------



## NoName678

Granted I don't understand the logistics of shutting down the subway/bus system, but the decision to shut down both systems in one shot at 12:00 seems difficult to understand. Even now, at 8:40, not much rain has fallen and winds. while probably higher than usual, are not especially high. And that's not just how it's turned out; that was the forecast yesterday. 

New Jersey Transit had a better idea, shutting down trains at noon and buses/light rail at 6PM. Why couldn't the MTA have kept at least a few subway lines open a few hours longer, and kept buses running until 5 or 6, especially while the city is trying to get people to evacuate? It doesn't seem to make sense.


----------



## trainrover

Time for an audit of the authority's permissible precautionary measures :dunno:





speedy1979 said:


> The people who could post a video are mta employees and they are probably very busy.


Simply curious of how passengers must've been shooed away, considering how the Toronto subway coppers panicked --on an empty platform (only 4 passengers)-- back on 911 hno:


----------



## hkskyline

By *Marss * from a Chinese photography forum :


----------



## Christius Alerius

Toss up between the NY subway and London Underground as to which is my favourite..
I noticed a few comments in the thread about people not liking old, dirty stations, i think they give the subway atmosphere!


----------



## trainrover

Paris...stations virtually everywhere there.


----------



## Suburbanist

Christius Alerius said:


> I noticed a few comments in the thread about people not liking old, dirty stations, i think they give the subway atmosphere!


I think transportation infrastructure meant to be primarily transport (e.g., not a heritage streetcar or leisure river cruise boat) should be devoid of anything that is old, or left there just because it had always been there. It's like hospitals: you don't see a hospital keeping old wooden plastered operation rooms just because they were charming (in 1880?): they are sanitized and modernized whenever possible.

I find odd, borderline strange to think that "dirty stations" are good in any subway system. It contradicts 200 years or progressively cleaner urban environment that first got rid of animal excrement from streets and now is getting rid of asbestos and other stuff.

NYC subway carries a lot of people, and should do so without making people stomp into sandwich leftovers, cigarette butts, touching greasy benches or having so smell the dirt of underground.


----------



## trainrover




----------



## iampuking

Suburbanist said:


> I think transportation infrastructure meant to be primarily transport (e.g., not a heritage streetcar or leisure river cruise boat) should be devoid of anything that is old, or left there just because it had always been there. It's like hospitals: you don't see a hospital keeping old wooden plastered operation rooms just because they were charming (in 1880?): they are sanitized and modernized whenever possible.
> 
> I find odd, borderline strange to think that "dirty stations" are good in any subway system. It contradicts 200 years or progressively cleaner urban environment that first got rid of animal excrement from streets and now is getting rid of asbestos and other stuff.
> 
> NYC subway carries a lot of people, and should do so without making people stomp into sandwich leftovers, cigarette butts, touching greasy benches or having so smell the dirt of underground.


There is a difference between unhealthily dirty stations, and stations which have a more rough charm about them. The stations on the NYC Subway are the latter. Your comparison with hospitals is void; people don't go on the subway to heal after contracting a disease... It's a bit like street graffiti; many people see it as an eyesore whereas many see it as contributing to the character of an urban environment.


----------



## hkskyline

iampuking said:


> There is a difference between unhealthily dirty stations, and stations which have a more rough charm about them. The stations on the NYC Subway are the latter. Your comparison with hospitals is void; people don't go on the subway to heal after contracting a disease... It's a bit like street graffiti; many people see it as an eyesore whereas many see it as contributing to the character of an urban environment.


Peeling paint, leaky roofs, and garbage flying = unsanitized and dirty, not an "Old World" charm.


----------



## dachacon

trainrover said:


> Time for an audit of the authority's permissible precautionary measures :dunno:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Simply curious of how passengers must've been shooed away, considering how the Toronto subway coppers panicked --on an empty platform (only 4 passengers)-- back on 911 hno:


better safe than sorry.


----------



## Winged Robot

hkskyline said:


> Peeling paint, leaky roofs, and garbage flying = unsanitized and dirty, not an "Old World" charm.


I agree. The NYC subway is an important milestone in history for a number of reasons, but it's not the Great Pyramids or the Great Wall of China. Old structures like that can be left alone to age and have "old world" charm because they don't have to serve modern society. It's a hundred years old, but the subway still serves as the primary means of getting around NYC, and should be treated as such.


----------



## MarneGator

Suburbanist said:


> I think transportation infrastructure meant to be primarily transport (e.g., not a heritage streetcar or leisure river cruise boat) should be devoid of anything that is old...


I just want some clarification: when you say anything old, does that mean you also support the earlier demolition of the original New York Penn Station? It's large dimensions and bombastic appearance certainly went well beyond the needs of the trains...
In regards to other arguments, old and dirty and not synonymous. Sure, the old subway stations of New York would always look crude - exposed I-beams, low ceilings, and simple box-like shapes - but transit needn't be an architectural statement to be successful. It would be nice if everything could look like the Bilbao metro or something, but as long as it adequately serves the population, it's doing its job. That's certainly not to excuse the refuse issue in the subway, but in good nick it would cease to be gross and just old (if rather crude).


----------



## Christius Alerius

Just to clarify people I wasn't saying litter was good, by old and dirty I meant exposed beams, bare walls and graffiti, things like that, not dangerous things.


----------



## iampuking

^^Seems i'm the only one that got that.


----------



## Woonsocket54

source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/6121186335/in/photostream








MTA Chairman Jay H. Walder and elected officials re-opened the southbound platform of the Cortlandt St R subway station on Tuesday, Sept. 6, 2011. More info here: bit.ly/pO2mpm Left to right (front row): NYS Senator Daniel Squadron; Congressman Jerrold Nadler; MTA Chairman Jay H. Walder; NYS Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver; and NYC Council Member Margaret Chin. Photo by Metropolitan Transportation Authority / Patrick Cashin.


----------



## chuchero

New York subway station are ogly and claustrofobic. I don´t uderstand why the richiest city on hearth doesn´t invest to up today its subway sistem.


----------



## Falubaz

It's all because States are too car-centric. No one (or still too few) cares about public transportation.


----------



## trainrover

dachacon said:


> better safe than sorry.


About their (Toronto's) behaviour :? Neither nothing safe about it nor any thing about it to be sorry over


----------



## Dan78

chuchero said:


> New York subway station are ogly and claustrofobic. I don´t uderstand why the richiest city on hearth doesn´t invest to up today its subway sistem.


Spending on public utilities, spaces, and facilities (particularly public transit) in the U.S. is usually regarded as wasteful by a large segment of the voting population, especially when the spending goes to the cosmetic aspects of these utilities. If NYC made their subway stations look like the ones you'll find in the "world's most beautiful metro stations" photo threads, the first question on most people's minds (outside of NYC) would be why the money wasn't spent on tax breaks for big business, or on a new highway in the middle of Oklahoma.

The U.S. is very car-centric as Fabulaz pointed out, and too few people directly benefit from public transit currently enough for it to matter (which leads to reduced funded and shrinking service and service coverage... a vicious cycle). If we funded our public transit companies as well as we fund our military contractors, New York's stations would probably look as nice as Shanghai's.

In the case of NYC, the stations COULD look nicer, but I don't see how they can be made "less claustrophobic". The internal size and configuration of the stations is limited by their original design.


----------



## trainrover

Dan78 said:


> the first question ... would be why the money wasn't spent on tax breaks for big business


Are you a ... ... ... martian :?


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^Umm... to the partisan folks above... how bout the system is just old and in the most crowded city in the country? 

I'll be the first to admit that the US's transportation spending is way out of whack, but we could be throwing all that money at transit systems, and I'm pretty sure the NYC subway would still look old and cramped...


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## Falubaz

It's not only old and uggly - it's just dirty. First what should be done is: "just clean that thing!" It's an awesome system actually and i love it. It's probably one among very few in States that is really used by citizens, too. This means - the money wouldnt be wasted.


----------



## Dan78

BoulderGrad said:


> ^^Umm... to the partisan folks above... how bout the system is just old and in the most crowded city in the country?
> 
> I'll be the first to admit that the US's transportation spending is way out of whack, but we could be throwing all that money at transit systems, and I'm pretty sure the NYC subway would still look old and cramped...


I made a bad joke about some of the anti-public transit lunacy we sometimes see in the U.S. (and the funding thereof). I apologize for that one. :bash:

Yeah, the NYC subway's old and crowded. But it doesn't need to look as bad as it does. Actually, I don't think just throwing money at the system is the way to go (though funding may be part of the issue). NYC should study other similarly large mass transit systems (Paris, Moscow, Tokyo) with better reputations and reform the MTA along those lines. Hopefully those reforms would translate into better maintained and cleaner stations.

The bottom line is the NYC stations 'are what they are' from a spatial organization standpoint, and will never be as roomy as more modern subway stations like those of Washington D.C. or Shanghai, or Paris's RER.


----------



## Metrocracy

wich MTA lines are 24h open?

---

IMHO


----------



## Martin S

The NY subway stations that I have seen have been pretty old but there is something very atmospheric about the riveted steelwork and the tiling on the walls. If they had a tenth of the usage they do then they would be spacious but I guess in NYC, any additional space would be gobbled up in no time.


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## Nexis

chuchero said:


> New York subway station are ogly and claustrofobic. I don´t uderstand why the richiest city on hearth doesn´t invest to up today its subway sistem.


Because its stupid to rip out the entire system that works and replace it with a new system. The Stations were built cheaply and thus they seemed cramp.



Falubaz said:


> It's all because States are too car-centric. No one (or still too few) cares about public transportation.


This is the Northeast its 50/50 here , unless you mean Federal spending that's different.


----------



## MarneGator

Nexis said:


> This is the Northeast its 50/50 here...


Not even close. The New York metropolitan area has a 30% transit share, more than double the next metro area; the Northeast corridor is barely in the double-digits in terms of transit usage, to say nothing of the associated states. If you mean to say public opinion / support, people's opinion's will probably reflect their mode of use which still puts transit in the Northeast well below 50%


----------



## Nexis

MarneGator said:


> Not even close. The New York metropolitan area has a 30% transit share, more than double the next metro area; the Northeast corridor is barely in the double-digits in terms of transit usage, to say nothing of the associated states. If you mean to say public opinion / support, people's opinion's will probably reflect their mode of use which still puts transit in the Northeast well below 50%


I'm not talking about Modal share and can give a rats ass about that....i was talking about funding. I go by Ridership , not Modal Share which is think is a stupid way of gauging the Ridership of a system. People do car about Transit , its supported by 60-70% in the Northeast Corridor and by most Republicans from the Northeast. The only section who hates transit is the rural part....


----------



## Nexis

I will say while Subway improvements in most people's has slowed it really hasn't there doing work in areas you can't see like the tunnels and switches. The MTA has also shifted to upgrading the crumbling and busy LIRR and MNRR aswell as the Bus network. There currently prepping the MNRR for the Future expansions in the Lower Hudson Valley and Connecticut. Aswell as doing the East Side Access project on the LIRR , purchasing New Rolling stock on the New Haven line and LIRR. There also refurbishing stations along certain lines on the Subway system , there almost done with upgrading all the MNRR stations. Need I remind you on the New Fulton Transit Center in downtown? So they are doing alot , the MTA tends to spread it out evenly across the region.


----------



## CCs77

I've never been to New York, but I understand that the subway system has been improved over the last two decades and is now much better than it was in the 70's or 80's. I supose they can do more, but that stations are the way they are and would be very expensive and complicated to reform them to make them more roomy, and is not worth either since they work the way they are. They better invest the money in building new lines to extend the service, and in that new lines they do construct spacious, roomy and modern stations.


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## trainrover

Cheesh! how come the rationale behind the NY state of mind seems to have been forgot thus far? :wave:


----------



## BoulderGrad

trainrover said:


> Cheesh! how come the rationale behind the NY state of mind seems to have been forgot thus far? :wave:


thank you for your input...


----------



## mhmhashem

You can search this pree release


----------



## chuchero

Falubaz said:


> It's all because States are too car-centric. No one (or still too few) cares about public transportation.


But masive rapid transit in pulblic transport is a politic subject too. To change that is a political subject too.



Dan78 said:


> Spending on public utilities, spaces, and facilities (particularly public transit) in the U.S. is usually regarded as wasteful by a large segment of the voting population, especially when the spending goes to the cosmetic aspects of these utilities. If NYC made their subway stations look like the ones you'll find in the "world's most beautiful metro stations" photo threads, the first question on most people's minds (outside of NYC) would be why the money wasn't spent on tax breaks for big business, or on a new highway in the middle of Oklahoma.


But the same people is keeping public facilities on that deplorable state is the same is declining to use public transport to move around the city and the first excuse is just how bad look all this subway stations. Europe does just the opositive and encourages the car adits to change tour public after building good a nice public facilities.

About the idea on people minds if NY makes improvements on its public transportation is just the same as every city around the world train for that politics. Ther´s always opositors and the argument is the same too.



Dan78 said:


> The U.S. is very car-centric as Fabulaz pointed out, and too few people directly benefit from public transit currently enough for it to matter (which leads to reduced funded and shrinking service and service coverage... a vicious cycle). If we funded our public transit companies as well as we fund our military contractors, New York's stations would probably look as nice as Shanghai's.


But car-centric mind is not something that came by itself, that is the result of a very well planet political schudele planet by Detroit in order to stablich the car as the only alternative when it comes to decide between a car or train to move on diary activities. So that is posible to change from.



Dan78 said:


> In the case of NYC, the stations COULD look nicer, but I don't see how they can be made "less claustrophobic". The internal size and configuration of the stations is limited by their original design.


Fisicly is baraly imposible but there´s tecnical solutions based on light wicht make real improvements on that problems.


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## Nexis

*Can we stop with Debates that have little to do with the subway. Go start your own thread about Car Centric vs Transit Centric. * The MTA has spent at least 15 billion $$ over the past decade in upgrades , not all of it going to the subways. It was evenly disturbed to Regional Railroads , Bus system and Bridges and tunnels....aswell as misc things.... The Coastal Northeast is pretty transit Centric and most people support transit , we do have alot of projects underway or in the engineering / late planning phase. Each County in this region now has a long term Transit plan and the majority of people living in those counties support it. The Way the Subway was built makes it hard to do upgrades or to make it European......why does everything have to be European?


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## trainrover

Nexis said:


> ......why does everything have to be European?


:rofl: (the sarcasm's so convincing!)

Let NY be NY :yes:


----------



## MarneGator

Nexis said:


> Can we stop with debates that have little to do with the subway.





Nexis said:


> I'm not talking about Modal share and can give a rats ass about that....i was talking about funding. I go by Ridership , not Modal Share which is think is a stupid way of gauging the Ridership of a system. People do car about Transit , its supported by 60-70% in the Northeast Corridor and by most Republicans from the Northeast. The only section who hates transit is the rural part....


Nexis, I'm going to keep this off-topic for this more post because it does need to be made clear that even in the Northeast there isn't the sort of commitment to transit that you claim (in the context of the US). People in the Northeast, above all New York, rely on it a great deal when compared to other areas of the country, as _modal share_ suggests (the benchmark indicator for _utility_, not raw patronage which is more important for fiscal reports or the endlessly puerile rankings), but in no way does the budgetary reality support your claim that transit enjoys investment parity with roadways. The State of New York is actually pretty close to a 50/50 deal, thanks to the prodigious size and capital needs of the MTA, but no other state begins to approach that level. For example, take a look through New Jersey's multi-year capital plan and you'll see that it plans to spend 79% more on roads than on transit by 2021 (it managed 203% more in FY '11). Massachusetts? 227% more on highways by 2016. 
The vague suggestion that people "support" transit, and thus have the political resolve for increased funding, is questionable considering that the people that support it most - residents of the highly dense centers of each metropolitan area - constitute a minority of people/voters along the BosWash corridor, to say nothing of the totality of the Northeastern states (like my earlier post to a statement of yours I misinterpreted). Just look at Nassau and Westchester counties in New York State: both have high transit usage for suburban areas - 16% and 20%, respectively, and with over a 70% modal share when just looking at Manhattan-bound commuters - but most people in those areas are, at best, ambivalent about supporting transit via the 2009-enacted Metropolitan Commuter Transportation Mobility Tax while their politicians decidedly hate it. If few in even highly transit-dependent suburbs are willing to support transit via government money (taxes), how can the claim be made that the whole of the Northeast does?


----------



## Nexis

MarneGator said:


> Nexis, I'm going to keep this off-topic for this more post because it does need to be made clear that even in the Northeast there isn't the sort of commitment to transit that you claim (in the context of the US). People in the Northeast, above all New York, rely on it a great deal when compared to other areas of the country, as _modal share_ suggests (the benchmark indicator for _utility_, not raw patronage which is more important for fiscal reports or the endlessly puerile rankings), but in no way does the budgetary reality support your claim that transit enjoys investment parity with roadways. The State of New York is actually pretty close to a 50/50 deal, thanks to the prodigious size and capital needs of the MTA, but no other state begins to approach that level. For example, take a look through New Jersey's multi-year capital plan and you'll see that it plans to spend 79% more on roads than on transit by 2021 (it managed 203% more in FY '11). Massachusetts? 227% more on highways by 2016.
> The vague suggestion that people "support" transit, and thus have the political resolve for increased funding, is questionable considering that the people that support it most - residents of the highly dense centers of each metropolitan area - constitute a minority of people/voters along the BosWash corridor, to say nothing of the totality of the Northeastern states (like my earlier post to a statement of yours I misinterpreted). Just look at Nassau and Westchester counties in New York State: both have high transit usage for suburban areas - 16% and 20%, respectively, and with over a 70% modal share when just looking at Manhattan-bound commuters - but most people in those areas are, at best, ambivalent about supporting transit via the 2009-enacted Metropolitan Commuter Transportation Mobility Tax while their politicians decidedly hate it. If few in even highly transit-dependent suburbs are willing to support transit via government money (taxes), how can the claim be made that the whole of the Northeast does?


Right now everything is abit higher on Road spending , but between 2001-2008 Transit spending over took road spending. But the roads have started to fall apart , so now there switching except CT , MD and NOVA which have kept there's. Long Island is the exception to this region , its the most Auto-Centric part of this region and not built around the Railways. Westchester is and has plans to integrate all its suburbs all into BRT and railways. So does Jersey and Connecticut. Honestly i don't care about the current spending , I look at past spending and spending trends. I think all Northeastern states will be 50/50 by 2020 or somewhere near that.


----------



## Nexis




----------



## Nexis

*MTA Capital Projects
*


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## trainrover

Dan78 said:


> the first question ... would be why the money wasn't spent on tax breaks for big business


^^ The thing that gets me about this position/belief is how it contrasts to a several-minute-long interview I listened to on NPR (or it might've been CBC Radio) one or two weeks ago, whereat the guest declared that corporations were the source of 30% of the US Govt's revenues back in the 1950s, whereas the threshold has now fallen to just 12%, due to the layers and layers of tax loop holes -- I wish I'd remembered which programme broadcast the interview...


----------



## CCs77

There is a blog of the New York Transit Museum worth seeing.
These are some photos from the blog.

96th st. station - 2nd avenue line








Shot at 2011-09-14

96th st. station entrace - 2nd avenue line








Shot at 2011-09-14

model of 86th st. station - second avenue line








Shot at 2011-09-14

34th st. station - 7 line extension








Shot at 2011-09-14

ilustration of 63rd tunnel, 1970's - east side access








Shot at 2011-09-14

They give an explanation of each project with some graphic information, including historical background with photos.
here are the links for each project

2nd avenue subway
http://www.transitmuseumeducation.org/fbu/projects/secondavenue

7 line extension
http://www.transitmuseumeducation.org/fbu/projects/sevenline

East side access
http://www.transitmuseumeducation.org/fbu/projects/eastsideaccess

Fulton Transit Center
http://www.transitmuseumeducation.org/fbu/projects/fulton

the defunct Trans-Hudson tunnels
http://www.transitmuseumeducation.org/fbu/projects/the


----------



## Dale

The video says that the 2nd Avenue line is opening 2016. But isn't only a short portion of the line opening by then, with the rest well into the 2020's ?


----------



## bd popeye

> I think you need to check your claim that most of the system is above ground. By any measure - route length, track mileage, stations - most of the system is underground.


correct..

http://www.nycsubway.org/faq/factsfigures.html



> Underground stations 277
> Elevated Stations 153
> Embankment Stations 29
> Open Cut Stations 9
> Total 468





> Mainline Track Miles (for Passenger Service)
> Underground: 443
> Elevated: 156
> At grade/open cut: 57
> Total: 656 miles


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## rakcancer

57th St.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## Woonsocket54

recent photos from the mta flickr account:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/6164311482/








After a water main break at 106th Street, workers from MTA New York City Transit pumped out up to 10 feet of flood water on the A, B, C & D tracks on Sept. 19, 2011. Photo by Metropolitan Transportation Authority / Patrick Cashin.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/6163777841/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/6164304538/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/6163768523/


----------



## garcia.calavera

just because the subway doesn't close at night is no excuse for being dirty (or ugly for that matter)


----------



## trainrover

Would knowing about today's grime-free subways there compared to the city's prior fleets make you any happier?


----------



## Suburbanist

Certainly progress has been made, but there is still much ahead. MTA loses a hell of money on much less used buses, instead of upgrading the subway network. Old youtube videos, NY Times articles on its online database etc. have horror portraits of the NYC subway before Giuliani. Looks like a war-zone, cars completely destroyed with back-to-back graffiti, rampant turnstile-jumping, stations deemed to dangerous for the average person at night, smoking in the platforms etc.

IMVHO, something that greatly accentuates the perception of dirt are the steel beams and the white tiles near the tracks, which are hard to clean. They could solve both problems building some cover around the beams and changing the small squared tiles for concrete overlay.


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## trainrover

Why problem? to make it cleaner for rats at track level? :dunno:


----------



## primus20

Woonsocket54 said:


> recent photos from the mta flickr account:
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/6164311482/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After a water main break at 106th Street, workers from MTA New York City Transit pumped out up to 10 feet of flood water on the A, B, C & D tracks on Sept. 19, 2011. Photo by Metropolitan Transportation Authority / Patrick Cashin.


----------



## primus20

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/6164311482/









new yorks new water taxi:lol:


----------



## Longershanks

trainrover said:


> littering's bad everywhere


New York, USA, North America or the world?


----------



## trainrover

I'd say N America -- for instance, it would appear NYC streets are now cleaner than Montreal's.


----------



## Nexis




----------



## trainrover

^^ gotta love that NY spirit -- were our metros run above aground and had that happened at a station here, I'm certain the disembarking passengers would've left through other doors -- also makes me wonder how they would've exited the train had the water not appeared as transparent


----------



## Get Smart

I have seen some terrible filty pictures of nyc subway, and the mta officials and fat cats are crooks, they want cheffeur driven cars to go to work and not take the subway ?


----------



## HARTride 2012

Thank gosh I did not see the ugliness & flithiness of Chambers St from the J Line when I visited in March. And the fare hikes are especially horrible when the top dogs are continually allowed to get away with excessive pampering.


----------



## bd popeye

"oh it's horrible.oh it's dirty..all the transit officals are crooks, they need new station like some broke European or Asian country. oh boo hoo."...You guys act like the World will stop spinning soon if the problems of the NYC subway aren't solved....jeez,

Get over yourselves..The bottom line is that the system works.


----------



## Woonsocket54

Let's all make accusations against MTA officials without any proof or citations.

Who wants to go next?


----------



## trainrover

I know, huh? These dissing _intercontinentlers_ behave like they themselves never had a time when their own top-dog transit management also used to live more like the world's Barney Millers instead of today's Diors and Armanis :yawn: shame! shame! shame!


----------



## Nexis

DSC06995 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC06994 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC06993 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## geoking66

HARTride 2012 said:


> Thank gosh I did not see the ugliness & flithiness of Chambers St from the J Line when I visited in March. And the fare hikes are especially horrible when the top dogs are continually allowed to get away with excessive pampering.


For someone who loves the Paris Métro, I think it's pretty hard to criticise the subway for cleanliness. Every time I've used the Métro I can't help but think how dirty it is.


----------



## trainrover

^^ Tell me those three expresses, 1'18", 53", & 2' emit less sound than expresses in the past did, right? They're barely noisy :uh:


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## Nexis

Ive Fallen in love with 33rd Street and the depressed Express tracks... 


DSC07468 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr













DSC07475 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC07474 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


DSC07473 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## trainrover

Is the depression of the tracks a new configuration of the express lines, do you know if this is why no express seems all that noisy?


----------



## geoking66

trainrover said:


> Is the depression of the tracks a new configuration of the express lines, do you know if this is why no express seems all that noisy?


At 33rd Street it's so that the express tracks can go underneath the Murray Hill road tunnel.


----------



## trainrover

You've misunderstood my question.


----------



## Woonsocket54

trainrover said:


> You've misunderstood my question.


I think you might need to rephrase your question. I've read it over a few times, but I have no idea what you're asking. I know that you are a public transit expert, so I wonder what you mean by "new configuration" since I'm sure you are aware this is among the oldest stations in New York (1904).


----------



## trainrover

Expert? far from it! I'm merely interested (passionate). My question's two-fold:

were the centre tracks sunk since inaguration (yes? no?)
must/do you suppose the sinking of those tracks mitigate/s their noise pollution (yes? no?)

(Yesterday evening, I was trying to recall whether the Murray Hill tunnel was the two-way 1930s highway underneath Park Ave, or the modern one-way two-laned bypassing expressway under Lexington? 2nd Ave? ... today, I'm guessing it be the former.)


----------



## Woonsocket54

The wikipedia article on the Murray Hill Tunnel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park_Avenue_Tunnel_(roadway)) is helpful. There is no roadway tunnel under Lexington Avenue. There is one under First Avenue at United Nations (First Ave is called United Nations Plaza in that area). That tunnel, like the Murray Hill Tunnel under Park Avenue, is one-way only northbound, although the First Avenue Tunnel has multiple lanes.

Given that the Murray Hill Tunnel dates back to an open cut built 1834 (that was roofed over in 1850), it is safe to presume that the sunk configuration was present since the 33rd Street station was built. Why it was built like this, and why the local tracks and platforms were not built a little lower so as to be level with the express tracks, I don't know. The best way to mitigate noise pollution is to build local and express on totally different levels, as happens on some stretches of the Lexington Avenue Line through the Upper East Side.

It appears that different construction methods were used to build the express and local tunnels:



> The tracks north of the station: The express tracks in the station are significantly lower then the local, this is because just north of the station is one of the few locations on the original IRT that the cut and cover method was not used here. There is a deep bore tunnel under what was a trolley tunnel and what is now the vehicle tunnel under Grand Central. There are two tunnels one for the local and express tracks for each direction. The tunnels are obvious since there are no columns in them and there is a curved ceiling, just before the station local trains go up a steep incline into the station.


source: The Subway Nut (http://www.subwaynut.com/irt/33n6.htm)


----------



## trainrover

I didn't know noise could become so literal :uh:


----------



## Fan Railer

The entire Flushing Bound 7 Express trip in one video. Enjoy the trip and all the quirkiness that is the "International Express":


----------



## trainrover

Bravo, I thoroughly enjoyed that, fascinating above-ground ride had me grinning from cheek to cheek ... I like your trainspotting too ... how come the express track's raised above the locals around 111 St?


----------



## MarneGator

^ There are yard access tracks under the express track


----------



## trainrover

Ah, okay ... I'm going try peeking at it via street view.


----------



## trainrover

Tribute:
_The early days of the New York City subway_​


----------



## bd popeye

Nice video.. I rode that Flushing line a many of time in the summers of '69 & '70 traveling to and fro from Shea stadium..

trainrover wants to know..


> how come the express track's raised above the locals around 111 St?


according to wiki..



> 111th Street is a local station on the IRT Flushing Line of the New York City Subway. It is served by the 7 train at all times.
> 
> At this point, the express track "flies" over the other four tracks. The two center tracks are yard leads of the Corona Yard, home of the 7 train. As a result, trains that go to/from the yard often terminate or begin at this station. Stations with flyover express tracks such as this were far more commons on IRT elevated stations in Manhattan of the 19th and early-20th Centuries.
> 
> This station has full windscreens except at the south end of the northbound platform, which has a waist-high steel fence instead. Exit is at the south end. The mezzanine and stairway landings are wooden while the flooring at the fare control area is concrete. The station has a crossunder between platforms. New signs have covered the old ones.


----------



## Nexis

Despite the curve , this station is also quiet...


----------



## trainrover

I like your videography.


----------



## geoking66

Nexis said:


> Despite the curve , this station is also quiet...


Union Square is one of the noisiest spots in the system…


----------



## Nexis

geoking66 said:


> Union Square is one of the noisiest spots in the system…


Not compared to Brooklyn Bridge - City Hall or Grand Central... But it depends on the part of the station your in...


----------



## Fabio1976

http://www.ny1.com/content/news_bea...ltiple-subway-lines-on-weeknights-for-repairs

Bad news for the city that never sleeps !!!


----------



## Woonsocket54

Falubaz said:


> 7 should be extended to New Jersey and L extended back to Queens.... in some 50years maybe


The L train is long enough on its eastern end. It's already too crowded by the time it reaches Bedford Avenue in the morning inbound rush.


----------



## trainrover

bd popeye said:


> Never ever going to happen.


I hear you, although --retrospectively-speaking-- it's countless! how many times that very statement's proven consequently inaccurate


----------



## Falubaz

It has to happen somehow... Jersey needs better conection to Manhattan


----------



## trainrover

Yeah, but I suspect the overall point here is that very little --if any-- of its monies would ever come from any NYS/NYC administration :dunno:


----------



## Darloeye

Did that Rat have a ticket ?


----------



## trainrover

Probably the very same one that, permissibly, had the rest of the passengers of that carriage *in stitches*


----------



## Fan Railer

Welcome aboard this Thanksgiving Eve <6> to Pelham Bay Park. Enjoy the ride and Happy Thanksgiving =)








If you're just here to see some speeding action, go to the second video and watch from 6 min to 10:35 min. Once again, enjoy


----------



## Nexis




----------



## bd popeye

trainrover said:


> Yeah, but I suspect the overall point here is that very little --if any-- of its monies would ever come from any NYS/NYC administration :dunno:


Exactly.. there's no money now or in the future for any new project. Just maintenance and upkeep.


----------



## rbarrosilva

I just would like to know: Are NY government improving their subway fleet??? I'm asking that because every video you post here shows obsolet trains in square shapes running louder in the tunnel...I mean, as you are the richest country on the world, you're supposed to have the newest fleet as well.

Here in Brazil, we're taking a few steps towards the right direction, changing and modernizing ours...










This one is provided by CAF, a spanish company, and holds cutting edge technology such as: powerful A/C, self-extinguishing fire system, surveillance cameras...there are about 20 of these running over our metro lines.


----------



## sweet-d

I think NYC does have some new trains they look exactly like the old trains though.


----------



## Darloeye

sweet-d said:


> I think NYC does have some new trains they look exactly like the old trains though.



Why did they do that was it a cost thing or a design look ?


----------



## herenthere

rbarrosilva said:


> I just would like to know: Are NY government improving their subway fleet??? I'm asking that because every video you post here shows obsolet trains in square shapes running louder in the tunnel...I mean, as you are the richest country on the world, you're supposed to have the newest fleet as well.
> 
> This one is provided by CAF, a spanish company, and holds cutting edge technology such as: powerful A/C, self-extinguishing fire system, surveillance cameras...there are about 20 of these running over our metro lines.


Not sure what you mean by "obsolete" trains when a majority of our rolling stock runs these: https://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=r142 https://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=r143 https://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=r160

They may look similar from the sides (boring grey metal), but on the front and inside it's entirely different. Check out Youtube videos of these before you boast.


----------



## HARTride 2012

I think it's been mentioned on another transport thread that cost is a major factor. It seems to be cheaper to virtually replicate an existing design instead of developing a more innovative, modern design, which is what almost all of the US subways/metros have done, just replicate existing designs.

The insides, I will agree, are vastly different - pretty sleek and modern.


----------



## rbarrosilva

herenthere said:


> Not sure what you mean by "obsolete" trains when a majority of our rolling stock runs these: https://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=r142 https://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=r143 https://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=r160
> 
> They may look similar from the sides (boring grey metal), but on the front and inside it's entirely different. Check out Youtube videos of these before you boast.


I'm not boasting at all :lol:. I was just curious about...thanks for the links, they're very beautiful trains, even though they look like a square box. According to last post's information, you're just updating the old fleet, which also sounds good...Same thing is happening here, but we're just buying some new ones in order to develop our industry, virtually inexistent in that sector...


----------



## bd popeye

rbarrosilva said:


> I just would like to know: Are NY government improving their subway fleet??? I'm asking that because every video you post here shows obsolet trains in square shapes running louder in the tunnel...I mean, as you are the richest country on the world, you're supposed to have the newest fleet as well.
> 
> Here in Brazil, we're taking a few steps towards the right direction, changing and modernizing ours...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This one is provided by CAF, a spanish company, and holds cutting edge technology such as: powerful A/C, self-extinguishing fire system, surveillance cameras...there are about 20 of these running over our metro lines.


Ah actually much, not all. of the rolling stock of the NYC subway has been replaced the last few years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway_rolling_stock

And the Federal government is not dolling out the bucks to the MTA anytime soon.

http://secondavenuesagas.com/2011/11/16/federal-contributions-to-mta-megaprojects-lagging/


----------



## primus20

rbarrosilva said:


> I just would like to know: Are NY government improving their subway fleet??? I'm asking that because every video you post here shows obsolet trains in square shapes running louder in the tunnel...I mean, as you are the richest country on the world, you're supposed to have the newest fleet as well.
> 
> Here in Brazil, we're taking a few steps towards the right direction, changing and modernizing ours...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This one is provided by CAF, a spanish company, and holds cutting edge technology such as: powerful A/C, self-extinguishing fire system, surveillance cameras...there are about 20 of these running over our metro lines.


most of the subways in nyc are now modern just the system is old.

most parts of the system are old they are only few new stations.

the trains are clean but the stations dirty.

R160:


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
The R-160 is my favorite NYC subway train!


----------



## Woonsocket54

someone please go to the Brazil thread and start complaining about their rolling stock... I'm too busy at work to do this today.


----------



## Silly_Walks

Woonsocket54 said:


> someone please go to the Brazil thread and start complaining about their rolling stock... I'm too busy at work to do this today.


Well, he has a point. The rolling stock never left the crack age, looks wise. 

But i grew up with '80s NY movies... so it makes me feel at home.


----------



## trainrover

rbarrosilva said:


> surveillance cameras


Blunt-edged technology, were you to ask me; far better off at having patrols mill about than by way of shadow monitoring ... plus from the two stocks (re-)presented by primus20, three posts up, the NYC R160 stock's the one with a figure, for the only part of the Brazilian fleet that's neither square nor boxy is just its cab-nose.


----------



## Axelferis

metro in USa in general are deceiving.

Look so 70's wheras we are in 21st century.

I hope nothing great in public transports in USA because they don't really care as good europeans or asians could.

It's a reality 

Compare with Paris , Barcelona, Shangai and you 'll understand


----------



## trainrover

Then it must be better to be deceived than deluded


----------



## Woonsocket54

Axelferis said:


> I hope nothing great in public transports in USA


and same to you and your country, you lousy schmuck


----------



## Silly_Walks

Woonsocket54 said:


> and same to you and your country, you lousy schmuck


lol why are you attacking him? I don't even understand what he is saying, let alone if it is positive or negative.


----------



## Axelferis

Woonsocket54 said:


> and same to you and your country, you lousy schmuck



:dunno:

But please show me for new york an equivalent scheme of development you could find in cities like paris or London?

If you have examples i take 

Paris Line 14:



barcelona L9


----------



## bd popeye

^^I don't have time to post the photos but here ya' go.. NYC subway second ave subway.

http://mta.info/capconstr/sas/


----------



## Woonsocket54

^^ The trolling Frenchman. Let's just ignore his unintelligible rants. He's doing the same thing on the Moscow metro thread, attacking the rolling stock. Why he has chosen to take on two of the world's greatest metros on this point, I don't know. Maybe some inferiority complex.


----------



## trainrover

Axelferis said:


> If you have examples i take


Here's one at you :storm: Sort of useless, eh, gussying up yer metro if it be universally cloaked by *tinted* glass to platform-edge doors, never mind the disintegrating concrete *underground* :weird:


----------



## Axelferis

bd popeye said:


> ^^I don't have time to post the photos but here ya' go.. NYC subway second ave subway.
> 
> http://mta.info/capconstr/sas/


great news 

The stations look well done. It was time i think for such a huge city.

But we have old cars too there?

No new stock planned?


----------



## bd popeye

Axelferis said:


> great news
> 
> The stations look well done. It was time i think for such a huge city.
> 
> But we have old cars too there?
> 
> No new stock planned?


Read this link..remember..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway_rolling_stock


----------



## Nexis




----------



## Axelferis

more 10 years ago i read that the canarsie line was due to be extended or renew.

French company the ones which made meteor (asthom) bid for this line works (to have the same heavy driverless cars)

What's happened to this project?


----------



## MarneGator

^ The the project you're probably thinking of is CBTC installation (Siemens was the contractor). The project is basically complete - all that remains is the removal of the old wayside signals.


----------



## sweet-d

that nostalgia train is badass.


----------



## SydneyCity

Love it when transit authorities get into the Christmas spirit too. My local transit authority decorates its buses over Christmas.


----------



## Nexis

Axelferis said:


> more 10 years ago i read that the canarsie line was due to be extended or renew.
> 
> French company the ones which made meteor (asthom) bid for this line works (to have the same heavy driverless cars)
> 
> What's happened to this project?


The CBTC failed a few days ago and half the blame can be placed on Alstom which has a history of issues in there products in North America.


----------



## trainrover

_" ... Born: 1930 to 1947
80 to 63 years old"​_What happened to the authority's records, I thought this crummy grade of heritage documentation was limited to Canada over here?


----------



## Axelferis

Nexis said:


> The CBTC failed a few days ago and half the blame can be placed on Alstom which has a history of issues in there products in North America.


what a pity! NYC needs this modern system!

Trust me the equivalent of paris L 14 whould has been awesome in NYC.

Unfortunately you 'll continue with the old train passing there :|


----------



## Nexis

Axelferis said:


> what a pity! NYC needs this modern system!
> 
> Trust me the equivalent of paris L 14 whould has been awesome in NYC.
> 
> Unfortunately you 'll continue with the old train passing there :|


We have a modern system and a better system then Paris...Paris does not have the speed we have or the express tracks...


----------



## IanCleverly

trainrover said:


> Wholeheartedly! ... I love --almost *crave!*-- info, insight like that, the very type that folds my interest into a full-bodied, human context


Then you might, *might*, be interested in This Documentary


----------



## trainrover

Thank you ... so far, watching the intro's interesting ...

Ouch ...


----------



## Woonsocket54

^^ On a similar note, in middle school they made us read a book called "Slake's Limbo" about a boy who lives in a NY subway tunnel. His best friend was a rat.


----------



## trainrover

The poor snitch :hug:


----------



## Fan Railer

Sarcasticity said:


> I hope so. Some of these trains - the C, 5, A to name a few are so bad. Its almost kinda embarassing, but with such a great city, you cant complain right? But I do hope they do change those before I die lol


Don't know what you're talking about for the 5, since they have cars that are only 10-11 years old at this point....


----------



## geoking66

Suburbanist said:


> Concrete is far superior for elevated lines. If properly cared for, it doesn't get rusty, and doesn't have to be painted.
> 
> Also, it is much more stable in terms of shock and vibration absortion.
> 
> That is why I think they should devise a plan to gradually replace all elevated lines with concrete replacements.
> 
> That is why you don't see anyone (anywhere) building steel and iron elevated lines at this day and age.
> 
> Moreover, concrete allows for massive and decent stations to be built over tracks. You know, stations with complete enclosure of the platforms that never ever let snow or rain to bother passengers, because you can reinforce a couple slabs and build a lot of things over it. Stations instead of "enhanced stops" - with elevators and escalators, that is.


Good luck on the Flushing Line since it's a historic structure. However, concrete, and elevated lines in general, are just ugly.


----------



## Sarcasticity

geoking66 said:


> Good luck on the Flushing Line since it's a historic structure. However, concrete, and elevated lines in general, are just ugly.


I agree with elevated lines in general being ugly. Theyre just not aesthetically pleasing and they cheapen the surrounding area. However, the rehabilitated elevated trains in the Rockaways are quite nice


----------



## Sarcasticity

Fan Railer said:


> Don't know what you're talking about for the 5, since they have cars that are only 10-11 years old at this point....


Well, the 5 that I was on was pretty bad. Maybe that car was just an anomaly but I do agree that most of the 5 line is nice. I dont understand though why we have different looking cars. Its not cohesive


----------



## Nexis

2 more frwsh videos from me.....


----------



## Woonsocket54

NYCT press release
December 15, 2011



> *FASTRACK Coming to the Lexington Avenue Line*
> 
> MTA New York City Transit is set to introduce FASTRACK--- a new way of working on the rails. *Beginning Monday, January 9, the 4, 5 and 6 lines will be shut down from 10 p.m. until 5 a.m., suspending all Lexington Avenue Line service between Grand Central-42nd Street and Atlantic Avenue in both directions for four consecutive weeknights.*
> 
> Signals, tracks, tunnels, structures and stations must all be kept is proper working condition, an incredibly difficult task in a system where trains run 24 hours a day, every day. Providing maintenance for over 2,600 switches, 12,000 train control signals, more than 700 miles of track and 468 stations is an enormous challenge. NYC Transit is taking a new approach to the performance of critical maintenance and upgrades. By shutting down a section of a subway line, we can work more efficiently at less cost and provide a much safer environment for our transit workers.
> 
> System-wide, NYC Transit's weeknight ridership is approximately 250,000. The closures will affect from 10% to 15% of those riders depending on the line segment. While providing a safer work environment for our employees who will no longer be sharing tracks with in-service trains, we also anticipate an annual productivity savings of $10 to $15 million. However, this is not a replacement for weekend work. Most weekend service diversions are due to capital work which consists of major station and line rehabilitation projects, such as the Culver Line reconstruction, the West End Line rehabs, and the rehabilitation of Dyckman Street and Smith-9th Sts. Weekend diversions will continue as before. In order to accomplish our maintenance tasks we have chosen four corridors that begin at Manhattan's Central Business District (CBD):
> 
> Lexington Avenue 456 from Grand Central-42nd Street to Atlantic Avenue
> Sixth Avenue FDB from 59th Street-Columbus Circle to West 4th Street
> Seventh Avenue 123 from 34th Street to Atlantic Avenue
> Eight Avenue ACE from 59th Street-Columbus Circle to Jay Street-MetroTech
> 
> These corridors will completely shut down on four consecutive nights from 10 p.m. to 5 a.m., four times a year. Only subway line segments where there are substantial subway alternatives have been selected for the overnight shutdowns. So, in addition to nearby lines, there may be other lines running that don't usually operate during the late night hours in order to help accommodate customers. In order to avoid further inconvenience, we will avoid other service diversions in the area affected by the closure.
> 
> By providing a more productive work window, Transit employees will be safer by not working on "live" track and will avoid the interruptions of repeatedly having to "clear up" for trains going by. Workers will inspect track, repair or replace rails, and perform power and signal maintenance. During this time, we will also be able to repair platform edges, wall tiles and lighting in addition to power washing at some of the closed stations.
> 
> When a line segment is closed at night, customers can expect to add 20 minutes to their usual travel time. Alternative transportation options will be detailed in announcements and posters on trains, in stations and on selected buses; brochures will be available in both English and Spanish. Information will also be available on the web at www.mta.info and through social media, email and text alerts.
> 
> Our next FASTRACK overnight closure will be on the Seventh Avenue 123 line between 34th Street and Atlantic Avenue from 10 p.m. to 5 a.m. for four consecutive nights beginning Monday, February 13 and ending at 5 a.m. Friday, February 17.
> 
> ###


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Is it allowed to take pics and movies in ny subway?


----------



## Fabio1976

Woonsocket54 said:


> NYCT press release
> December 15, 2011


Once upon a time the city that never sleeps ...........


----------



## Sarcasticity

_Night City Dream_ said:


> Is it allowed to take pics and movies in ny subway?


I see a lot of tourists and residents alike taking pics in the subway.


----------



## Nouvellecosse

What are the typical number of cars in each train (or carriages as they'd say in Britain)?

Is seems like most of the ones in the videos have 10.


----------



## MarneGator

^ Ten would be the typical number, but it depends on the route. On the A Division, the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 trains are ten cars; the 7 train is composed of eleven cars. The B Division has two lengths: eight or ten. The A, B, C, D, E, F, N, Q, and R trains have a length of 600 feet / ~183 meters, but the number of cars depends on the rolling stock. Most of the videos shown of the B Division are of R160s which are 60 ft / ~18.3 meters long, so those trains are ten cars long. There's still a good number of older, 75 ft long / ~23 meters cars, so some of those trains would be made up of eight cars. The J, L, M, and Z trains are limited by the length of their platforms to eight cars (and can only use 60 ft / ~18.3 meters cars). The sole non-shuttle train exception is the G train which, due to budgetary and ridership issues, only runs four-car trains (of the 75 ft long / ~23 meters variety).


----------



## trainrover

Line 7 has 11 cars, right? And which line there might have 12?


----------



## herenthere

trainrover said:


> Line 7 has 11 cars, right? And which line there might have 12?


No.


----------



## Nexis




----------



## SydneyCity

trainrover said:


> Line 7 has 11 cars, right? And which line there might have 12?


None of them have 12 cars to my knowledge.

Lines J, L, M and Z run 8 car trains of shorter rolling stock (R160, R143, R42 and R32) only.

Lines A, B, C, D, E, F, N, Q and R run either 10 car trains of shorter rolling stock (R160, R143, R42 and R32) or 8 car trains of longer rolling stock (R46 and R68).

Line G runs 4 car trains of longer rolling stock (R46 and R68). This is not due to station or track capacity issues, it is due to cost and ridership issues.

The IRT lines (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7) run narrow bodied IRT stock (R62 and R142). They cannot run any other stock, as the tunnels are not wide enough.

The shuttles each run different stock. The Times Square - Grand Central shuttle uses 3 or 4 car R62s, the Franklin Avenue shuttle uses 2 car R68s and the Rockaway Park shuttle uses 4 or 8 car R46s.

Did I get all that right? As i'm not a New Yorker please correct me if any of that is wrong.


----------



## Fan Railer

SydneyCity said:


> None of them have 12 cars to my knowledge.
> 
> Lines J, L, M and Z run 8 car trains of shorter rolling stock (R160, R143, R42 and R32) only.
> 
> Lines A, B, C, D, E, F, N, Q and R run either 10 car trains of shorter rolling stock (R160, R143, R42 and R32) or 8 car trains of longer rolling stock (R46 and R68).
> 
> Line G runs 4 car trains of longer rolling stock (R46 and R68). This is not due to station or track capacity issues, it is due to cost and ridership issues.
> 
> The IRT lines (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7) run narrow bodied IRT stock (R62 and R142). They cannot run any other stock, as the tunnels are not wide enough.
> 
> The shuttles each run different stock. The Times Square - Grand Central shuttle uses 3 or 4 car R62s, the Franklin Avenue shuttle uses 2 car R68s and the Rockaway Park shuttle uses 4 or 8 car R46s.
> 
> Did I get all that right? As i'm not a New Yorker please correct me if any of that is wrong.


Yes this is essentially correct. The only line which runs an odd train length is the 7, which runs with 11 cars. There are no twelve car trains anywhere in the system. 

For all of you who aren't from the city, wikipedia is your friend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway_rolling_stock

And while I'm here, here are the videos that I managed to shoot of the Christmas time holiday train last Saturday, the 17th. (The last two are time lapses) Enjoy =)


----------



## trainrover

I agree, the subway's NYC's municipal railway :yes:


----------



## MarneGator

I would rather the Subway and PATH merge so into the New York *Metropolitan* Subway. There's no good reason people in the metro area immediately west of the Hudson should have a rapid transit system that purposely ends in the Manhattan business districts (or that the 7 and L just stop at the western edge of New York).


----------



## SydneyCity

Isn't there some law prohibiting that?

Also, I believe the trains are incompatible or something like that.


----------



## trainrover

MarneGator, why restructure (presumably) the taxing, funding structure for a comparatively minor influx passing underneath the western municipal limits? Besides, _isn't_ part of the fun of big-city living found in transferring to mg: another transport network?


----------



## Nexis

MarneGator said:


> I would rather the Subway and PATH merge so into the New York *Metropolitan* Subway. There's no good reason people in the metro area immediately west of the Hudson should have a rapid transit system that purposely ends in the Manhattan business districts (or that the 7 and L just stop at the western edge of New York).


Since the PATH is a Railroad it will never be allowed to merge with the Subway and the cars are slightly bigger then the IRT and slightly smaller then the IND / BMT system so they wouldn't fit.


----------



## MarneGator

@SydneyCity / trainrover: That's the whole point of metropolitan planning organizations. Federal law also encourages interstate cooperation in such matters – see subsection (f) of § 134 and subsection (c) of § 135 of Title 23, USC – so there's certainly no major legal obstacle to the creation of a transit system operated at a truly regional level. As far as incompatible trains on the rapid transit network are concerned, I have no intention of suggesting that PATH _physically_ merge with the Subway or _vice versa_ because that would entail an odious degree of interlining which would reduce the effectiveness of rapid transit service outside the Manhattan trunk lines; the dimensional differences, though real, are of a lesser concern. Operationally, everything should be as tightly integrated as possible to make transit as efficient and convenient as possible to the widest range of people.
The only real problem to this picture is the slight worsening of the fiscal health of the Subway, but this is a different element of transportation planning (as well as politics in general).
@Nexis: FRA waiver or, if that's not forthcoming, sever the track connection between PATH and the mainline railroads. As far as the merging, like I suggested above, there's no compelling reason to physically merge the two systems, just to manage them as though they were a single rapid transit system. (Think of the way the IRT was incorporated into a unified subway in 1940.)


----------



## krnboy1009

Nexis said:


> Well there are plenty of areas within NYC that the subway needs to be expanded to before most New Yorkers would be comfortable with a NJ extension.


Staten Island most notably. And many parts of Queens.


----------



## Nexis

Instead of Integrating the subway to the PATH we should be integrating the various commuter railroads of this region which already service a million people a day. Think of what a merged system and expanded could service...


----------



## sotonsi

It's a shame that the East Side Access and ARC schemes were considered separate, rather than running the LIRR/NJT services as one long line (like Paris RER, London Thameslink/Crossrail).


----------



## MarneGator

@Nexis: Here's a major reason why the PATH and Subway should be dealt with first: cost and speed of integration. Look at the track maps for the two systems – http://images.nycsubway.org/trackmap/pm_west_1.png and http://world.nycsubway.org/us/path/path-trackmap.html – and you'll notice that if the track-level walls at the 14th and 23 Street stations were knocked down, you would have cross-platform transfers between the subway and PATH trains. For the mere cost of tearing down some walls, expanding a passageway or two, and repositioning fare gates, you would give Manhattan-bound workers an infinity better commute since they'd have free and painless transfers to the F and M trains (and the B and D trains to the west side with another cross-platform transfer at 42 Street-Bryant Park) to the 42-to-63 Street corridor (around 53 Street being particularly important). Likewise, 12,000+ Hudson County-bound people from the Bronx, Manhattan, and Queens would have a much better time commuting. (I'm assuming the ~5,900 people from Brooklyn would use the WTC Station while the couple thousand from Staten Island overwhelming drive).
Ultimately, yes, the commuter railroads in the region should be integrated so New York has an RER / S-Bahn type system (with free transfers in the central areas, like the RER with the Paris Métro or any S-Bahn and U-Bahn in Germany), but there's no reason the same shouldn't be true for the rapid transit systems, especially considering the relative ease at which it could be done.


----------



## Woonsocket54

New York Daily News
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...live-high-rises-ride-subway-article-1.1016886



> *Newt Gingrich blasts Manhattanites who live in high-rises and 'ride the subway'*
> GOP presidential hopeful attacked nation's elites, singling out NYC
> By Jonathan Lemire / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
> 
> Published: Friday, February 3, 2012, 8:01 PM
> Updated: Friday, February 3, 2012, 8:01 PM
> 
> Newt Gingrich, trying to keep his floundering campaign alive, unleashed a vicious attack Friday - on New York City.
> 
> Gingrich, appearing in Las Vegas the day before the Nevada caucuses, railed against the nation’s power brokers and — instead of swiping rival Mitt Romney — took an unprovoked shot at Manhattan.
> 
> *Raging against the nation’s “elites,” Gingrich singled out those who live in city “high-rises” and those “that ride the subway.”
> 
> The bizarre attack raised questions about Gingrich’s erratic campaign, and not just because a ride on the city subway is just $2.25 — hardly a price only the elites can afford.*
> 
> Gingrich’s slam on the city may have been due to misplaced anger at one of its most famous residents, Donald Trump.
> 
> Gingrich traveled to New York last year to kiss Trump’s ring in a bid for The Donald’s endorsement.
> 
> He held a Manhattan press conference with Trump and was one of only two candidates who agreed to participate in an Iowa debate moderated by the real estate mogul. (It was ultimately canceled because none of the other candidates agreed to show up.)
> 
> And while rumors flew Wednesday night that Gingrich was going to get Trump’s blessing, the reality TV star instead endorsed Mitt Romney — who dodged the press when he met the real estate mogul in Manhattan.
> 
> The broadside at Broadway also seemed odd considering that Gingrich counts the upper East Side as one of his most fertile fund-raising grounds, campaign records show.
> 
> The ex-speaker, whose event in Las Vegas was sparsely attended, has squandered all of his momentum from his stunning South Carolina win.
> 
> He was crushed in Florida and, according to a Public Policy Polling survey released Friday, is now down 25 points to Romney in Nevada.
> 
> The expected Romney rout in the Silver State — which he won four years ago, aided in part by its large Mormon population — may be the first of many in the coming weeks.
> 
> The upcoming primary calendar is heavy on states where Romney has invested heavily, like Arizona and Michigan, where he was born.
> 
> Ron Paul has spent a lot of time in some of the upcoming small caucus states, like Minnesota and Maine, and could steal some delegates, but neither Gingrich nor Rick Santorum seem poised to make much of a dent in Romney’s lead before Super Tuesday in early March.
> 
> [email protected]


----------



## Woonsocket54

The problem with PATH/Subway integration dates back to the end of the 19th century, when the five boroughs joined to become New York City. What should have happened is that New York should have given Staten Island to NJ in return for the eastern half of Hudson County, NJ, which includes Hoboken, Jersey City, Union City and other thickly settled areas. If eastern Hudson County became the fifth borough instead of Staten, then the subway would have been built there during the subway building boom prior to World War II. In fact, at least 4 lines would have been built to those areas which would quickly become dense due to their proximity to Midtown. And those lines would have likely continued past Manhattan to one of the other three boroughs instead of ending at WTC or Herald Sq like PATH does. 

Staten Island just makes more sense being in NJ, and the areas across the Hudson from Manhattan would make more sense being in NYC (the Hudson is not much wider than the East River).


----------



## trainrover

^^ What was so pressing about renaming the borough from Richmond, do you know? :?





MarneGator said:


> metropolitan planning


State planning must trump metropolitan  Surely! other dockets must be of higher priority than placating visiting NJ residents.


----------



## Professor L Gee

drunkenmunkey888 said:


> But that's ignoring the fact that it is not just the NYC subway that makes up the NYC urban transit system. The subway is just one part of the greater network, much like how Toei metro and Tokyo subway along with the network of independent suburban lines make up Tokyo's urban rail system. There is no need to extend the 7. Instead extend the PATH. Did we forget about the PATH?


Pretty much every other US city that runs a subway or light rail system extends one or more of their lines out to the suburbs... NYC is the only one I can think of that doesn't.


----------



## Nexis

The Added taxes which every county and town the MTA services has , would make it very hard to sell to NJ residents... Alot of NJ residents are against anymore links to NYC....they rather see the $$$ invested in connecting Urban Jersey to the suburbs...


----------



## Nexis

*7 Subway Extension Update *


7Line_8422 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


7Line_8415 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


7Line_8403 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


7Line_8348 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


7Line_8323 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


7Line_8313 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


7Line_8291 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


7Line_8284 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


7Line_8265 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


7Line_8251 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


7Line_8232 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


7Line_8112 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

*Second Avenue Subway.*


MTACC 2012-01-24 05 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


MTACC 2012-01-24 04 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


MTACC 2012-01-24 02 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

*Subway Work *


Weekend at work 2012-02-06 07 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Weekend at work 2012-02-06 03 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Weekend at work 2012-02-06 02 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Weekend work 2012-01-30 19 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Weekend work 2012-01-30 18 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Weekend work 2012-01-30 17 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Weekend work 2012-01-30 12 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Weekend work 2012-01-30 09 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Weekend work 2012-01-30 05 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Weekend work 2012-01-30 03 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


----------



## trainrover

Those weekend work photos fascinate me, very interesting


----------



## Woonsocket54

Incident at 77th Street station on the 6 train today









source: http://twitter.com/#!/lilobynature/status/166619872300773376/photo/1


----------



## Silly_Walks

I don't think i want to know what i'm looking at there.

Thank god the picture is dark.


----------



## dwdwone

According to Taxicab Confessions, not the most reliable source I admit, people jumping in front of trains often spin around and end up between train and platform, often feeling nothing. The station is then closed and the person's family - if any - is called in to say their goodbyes, and then the train is moved. You can guess the rest.

In my 22 years of taking the train (1958 through 1980), there were two instances where someone tried to push me in front of a train. Once on the #1 and once at Grand Central on the #7 train. I got better at being paranoid after that.


----------



## webeagle12

Construction crane collapses in Manhattan

A construction crane has collapsed on the West Side of Manhattan, according to preliminary emergency reports.

At least five people have been hurt inside the West 34th Street construction site for the No. 7 line subway line extension, officials said.

The FDNY said an 80-foot section and a 40-foot section from an upright crane became dislodged, the AP reported.

One worker was critically hurt, another seriously, officials said. Two other people had minor injuries. The condition of the fifth person wasn't immediately clear, the AP reported.

"On behalf of the entire MTA, we pray for the recovery of the workers injured as a result of this tragic accident tonight," the MTA said in a statement. "We will work together with all proper authorities to conduct a thorough investigation on the circumstances behind this unfortunate incident."

Police have closed West 34th Street at 11th Avenue and 11th Avenue between 34th Street and 35th Street, according to the Notify NYC system.

Read more: http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/construction-crane-collapses-in-manhattan-20120403#ixzz1r2ThrlkR


----------



## Woonsocket54

dwdwone said:


> According to Taxicab Confessions, not the most reliable source I admit, people jumping in front of trains often spin around and end up between train and platform, often feeling nothing. The station is then closed and the person's family - if any - is called in to say their goodbyes, and then the train is moved. You can guess the rest.


WTF


----------



## trainrover

First time I'm learning of trains not being released prior to adieux ... if true, incredible this happen in, of all places, NYC.


----------



## Woonsocket54

^^ it's a hoax


----------



## Damarr

It's a plot from an episode of Homicide: Life on the Street.


----------



## trainrover

Well, I tried writing in the subjunctive tense, although not certain if my comment represent a correct instance to be using it :dunno:


----------



## Woonsocket54

Damarr said:


> It's a plot from an episode of Homicide: Life on the Street.


in that case, moderators please move these comments to the Baltimore subway forum.


----------



## trainrover

or possibly better yet, to the monorail thread


----------



## Woonsocket54

DNAinfo
http://www.dnainfo.com/20120405/sunset-park-red-hook/person-struck-by-train-sunset-park



> *Person Struck by Train in Sunset Park*
> April 5, 2012 1:45pm | By Wil Cruz, DNAinfo News Editor
> 
> 
> BROOKLYN — A person was struck and injured by a train in Sunset Park Thursday, officials said.
> 
> The victim, who was not identified, was hit in the leg by a northbound R train at the 53rd St. station about 10:45 a.m., an FDNY spokesman said.
> 
> The person, who suffered a "severe laceration to the leg," was taken to Lutheran Hospital, the spokesman said. His condition was not immediately known, though a source added that the victim was alive when he was moved.
> 
> Kevin Ortiz, a spokesman for the MTA, said R train service had suspended in both directions between 95th and 36th streets for about an hour. Full service was restored about noon, he added.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A person was struck and injured by a train in Sunset Park on April 5, 2012. (DNAinfo/Theodore Parisienne)


----------



## HARTride 2012

trainrover said:


> or possibly better yet, to the monorail thread


Just have it dumped into a skybar. Doesn't make any transit sense to me at all.


----------



## Nexis




----------



## Woonsocket54

fun video of ghetto youth on the tracks. Unfortunately, everyone survived.


----------



## sbarn

^^ This thread has become ridiculous, and your comments are borderline racist.


----------



## Woonsocket54

Here's another fun one from earlier this month.






Notice the potato chip guy stopped the fight.

Also in the background you can see the realigned uptown Bleecker platform, which will have a connection to Broadway-Lafayette come end of June.


----------



## Woonsocket54

New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/13/n...-on-the-subway-and-winning-internet-fame.html



> Richard Perry/The New York Times
> When a man and a woman fought on a No. 6 train he had just boarded, Charles Sonder formed a demilitarized zone. Soon he was a YouTube star.
> 
> April 12, 2012
> *When Fists and Kicks Fly on the Subway, It’s Snackman to the Rescue*
> By JIM DWYER
> 
> The most enduring and useful custom of New York subway riders is that they don masks of stone at the turnstile, and keep them on until they’ve gotten where they are going. The origins of this sound practice are beyond the memory of any living New Yorker, but even if it began with Peter Minuit, its value continues to be proved every day.
> 
> And so.
> 
> On a Thursday night at the end of March, three people boarded the same car of an uptown No. 6 train at Spring Street. Eitan Noy, 25, a D.J. at heart and construction worker by day, had just come from an art gallery on Mulberry Street in NoLIta and was making his way home toward Sunnyside, Queens.
> 
> Charles Sonder, 24, an architect, had left a bar on the Lower East Side and was going to meet friends. A few convivial hours in the first place had given him an appetite. For sustenance on his train ride, he grabbed a stack of cheddar Pringles and a bag of Gummi-Bears. He wasn’t proud but made no apologies for his diet. “We’ve all been there,” he would later note.
> 
> Sitting next to Mr. Noy was a woman, age unknown, but a safe guess would be in early 20s. A fourth party would make a late entrance. “This dude, at the last moment before the doors closed, stepped in,” Mr. Noy said.
> 
> The woman was not happy to see him. “Instantaneously, she jumps up and starts wailing on him,” Mr. Noy said. “Punching him in the face, kicking, cursing. Soon as she saw the dude, she started fighting him. Then he kicks back.”
> 
> Somehow, Mr. Sonder, who was a Rhode Island state wrestling champion at 189 pounds in high school and does architecture at 200, had never been present for such a scuffle in the subways, but then again, he moved to New York only two years ago. In his sports life, though, he had “seen things get out of hand.”
> 
> The ride from Spring Street to the next stop, Bleecker Street, is one of the shortest in the city, with the train barely getting started before it stops.
> 
> As it pulled in, Mr. Sonder stepped toward the door, and the battle ebbed for an instant as the man and the woman parted, possibly to let him pass. But he stopped, directly between them. He didn’t say a word, just kept working his way through the Pringles. With Mr. Sonder forming an implacable barrier, the fight dwindled to generally unprintable sputterings, with the woman ordering the man: “Don’t follow me. Do not follow me.”
> 
> Mr. Noy, having been born and raised in the city, had seen plenty of subway outbursts before, including one on St. Patrick’s Day, when two men set upon a third, pulling open his bag and using some force. Just as Mr. Noy and his friend were discussing intervention, the two men displayed badges and were cuffing the third. “After that, I knew I had to have my phone camera ready,” he said. So on the No. 6 train, he whipped out his camera a few blows into the round, in time to catch some of the action; Mr. Sonder stepping in; and then another woman, with an authoritative voice, ordering the woman to sit down and the man to get off the train.
> 
> After that, the remaining combatant noticed Mr. Noy’s cellphone camera and asked if she could see it. “I didn’t know what she was going to do with it,” Mr. Noy said. “She could smash me on the head. I told her, ‘I didn’t really get anything.’ ” She persisted, he deflected, and then he got off at Grand Central Station. Mr. Sonder disappeared into the night and pretty much forgot the whole thing. He went back to his work of building three-dimensional models at an architectural firm.
> 
> About 10 days ago, Mr. Noy decided to post the video on his YouTube account, which he operates under his D.J. name, Eitan Noyze. For the first week, he said, it got about 400 hits. Then it started moving up on the Reddit Web site. As of Thursday evening, it was close to 900,000 hits. The Internet had given Mr. Sonder a new name, which he learned about when his mother texted him earlier this week: “Hey Snackman.”
> 
> He was cool incarnate. No weapons. No visible bloodshed. Not even a loud word. A newcomer to the city, munching on chips, and a poker face for the ages.
> 
> E-mail: [email protected]
> 
> Twitter: @jimdwyernyt


----------



## Woonsocket54

New York Daily News
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/snackman-a-tasty-catch-ladies-article-1.1061495



> *Snackman a tasty catch for the ladies*
> Gals want to marry him, and he's open to dating if you email or text
> 
> By Rich Schapiro / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
> Published: Friday, April 13, 2012, 7:15 PM
> Updated: Saturday, April 14, 2012, 11:45 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Craig Warga/New York Daily News
> Charles Sonder poses in the Grand Street Subway Station. The Brooklynite recently broke up a fight on the subway and has become a viral sensation.
> 
> New York ladies are hungry for Snackman.
> 
> Charles Sonder, the Internet sensation who broke up a subway scuffle while chomping on cheddar Pringles, has been inundated with marriage proposals.
> 
> And there’s good news, ladies — Sonder is open to dating some of the suitors who have sent him love notes by text and email.
> 
> Just don’t ask him to settle down.
> 
> “I might entertain the idea of a date depending on who’s asking, but I don’t plan on getting married anytime soon,” said Sonder, a 24-year-old architect from Brooklyn.
> 
> All the attention has left the hungry hero craving more.
> 
> “I think it’s great how excited everyone is getting about it,” added Sonder, who is single. “The more interest the better.”
> 
> Sonder, dubbed Snackman, became the city’s most eligible bachelor after a YouTube clip of his crime-fighting exploits went viral.
> 
> Sonder coolly quashed a beef between two brawling straphangers a few weeks ago by stepping between them while casually shoveling chips into his mouth.
> 
> The cell phone video that captured Sonder in action has garnered more than 1.1 million hits — and dozens of fawning comments from Sonder’s admirers.
> 
> “Snackman have my babies,” wrote one commenter.
> 
> “He is sooooo fine omg i wanna sex him up lol,” wrote another.
> 
> Hot-blooded ladies also took to Twitter to express their love for the suave subway hero.
> 
> “LADIES: It sounds like Snackman is single,” wrote Silvia Killingsworth.


----------



## Luca111-_

Woonsocket54 said:


> fun video of ghetto youth on the tracks. *Unfortunately, everyone survived.*


:lol:


----------



## Nexis




----------



## trainrover

Does anybody know of any update to the following news, I myself can't find any :?


trainrover said:


> Following this 13-Dec-2010
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :
> 
> 
> trainrover said:
> 
> 
> 
> news like this here televised report (warning: has some disturbing images -- same Lexington-Ave station featured)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^ clickable...​this 19-Jan-2011 updating
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :
> _Man Crushed By 4 Train To Sue MTA_​
Click to expand...


----------



## krnboy1009

Ouch.


----------



## Woonsocket54

Critical maintenance on A/C/E lines during FASTRACK overnight shutdown this week









http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/6970163500/sizes/c/in/photostream/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/7116241895/sizes/l/in/photostream/


----------



## purenyork123

Party in the 2 train! Whitney Houston's tribute!
GOTTA LOVE MY CITY NEW YORK!


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ rowdy passengers. Such behavior should be sanctioned with fines or citations for loitering in public space.


----------



## Woonsocket54

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ rowdy passengers. Such behavior should be sanctioned with fines or citations for loitering in public space.


Maybe they should cite all sitting or standing subway passengers for loitering in a public space. After all, they're just remaining there and not moving. Great revenue source for cash-strapped transit agencies.


----------



## Silly_Walks

Suburbanist said:


> ^^ rowdy passengers. Such behavior should be sanctioned with fines or citations for loitering in public space.













http://youtu.be/iwGFalTRHDA


----------



## Suburbanist

^^ I guess you both miss the point. If they want people to use public transportation as smooth as a car or cab, they must make transit a place whose expected user behavior is the lowest common denominator, e.g., quiet passengers, no loud talking, let alone singing or partying.

It is not like an event people could choose to attend, and those who dislike such rowdiness have a right not to be disturbed. And those wanting to party... go clubbing or shut up.


----------



## Northridge

Silly_Walks said:


> http://youtu.be/iwGFalTRHDA


What's the point of going from thread to thread in this forum just to point out others mistakes? 

Head over to 4chan or reddit to do your thing.


----------



## mopc

trainrover said:


> Does anybody know of any update to the following news, I myself can't find any :?


 the man actually survived 30 minutes there? His spinal column was not severed or crushed? its a miracle!

I had never seen these "moving platforms", can anyone tell more about them, were there other accidents concerning them, when were they installed, can they have a fallen person detection system, why cant they be retracted with an emergency push button?


----------



## Silly_Walks

Northridge said:


> What's the point of going from thread to thread in this forum just to point out others mistakes?
> 
> Head over to 4chan or reddit to do your thing.


I wasn't pointing out anyone's mistakes, i was pointing out Suburbanists incessant need to troll.


----------



## Woonsocket54

New York Times
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/28/teenager-stabbed-at-a-bronx-subway-station/



> April 28, 2012, 2:38 pm
> *Teenager Is Stabbed at a Bronx Subway Station*
> By THOMAS KAPLAN
> 
> A 19-year-old man was stabbed on a Bronx subway platform early on Saturday after confronting a man whom he suspected of stealing a cellphone on a downtown No. 4 train, the police said.
> 
> The altercation occurred at the Fordham Road station about 4 a.m., the authorities said.
> 
> The teenager and his friend, who were not identified, got on the subway at the Woodlawn station and then dozed off, the police said. At some point, the youth woke up and noticed the missing cellphone.
> 
> As the train arrived at the Fordham Road station, the two young men were said to have noticed a man who appeared to have the cellphone. They got off the train. While his friend went to alert a token booth clerk, the youth confronted the man on the platform, who stabbed him in the torso, according to the authorities.
> 
> The teenager was taken to St. Barnabas Hospital, where he was listed in critical but stable condition on Saturday afternoon.


New York Post
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/...sted_in_bronx_stabbing_TcNJSSXf0RlIP8ZNgY001M



> *Subway 'stabber' and 'accomplice' arrested*
> By JESSICA SIMEONE
> Last Updated: 12:24 PM, April 29, 2012
> Posted: 8:07 AM, April 29, 2012
> 
> Cops arrested the knife-wielding thug and his accomplice who brutally attacked a teen for his cell phone on a Bronx subway platform, authorities said.
> 
> Victor Montalvo, 22, and Maritza Lopez, 21, were arrested yesterday on a slew of charges including attempted murder, assault and criminal possession of a weapon, police said.
> 
> The duo allegedly swiped a cell phone from the 19-year-old victim while he was sleeping on a southbound 4 train at 4 a.m. Saturday, cops said.
> 
> The victim spotted the thieves and confronted them on the platform of the Fordham Road station. It was then that Montalvo pulled a knife and stabbed the teen several times before fleeing with Lopez, cops said.
> 
> The victim was taken to St. Barnabus where he is still in critical but stable condition, authorities said.


----------



## trainrover

Suburbanist said:


> loitering in public space


Just when must you have become the type to be sanctioning the act of stepping off a moving train? :fiddle:


----------



## Fan Railer

trainrover said:


> Just when must you have become the type to be sanctioning the act of stepping off a moving train? :fiddle:


Exactly. They weren't doing anything illegal, so just suck it up and move on with your life.


----------



## Woonsocket54

I hope we haven't overfed the troll. They tend to throw up when that happens.


----------



## Fabio1976

http://www.ny1.com/content/news_bea...ventually-extending-7-line-down-the-west-side


----------



## yankeesfan1000

Fabio1976 said:


> http://www.ny1.com/content/news_bea...ventually-extending-7-line-down-the-west-side


Not necessarily a bad idea I think they're a lot of far more pressing needs even just within the subway system, but if anything needs to be done to the 7 extension, they gotta get that stop on 41st and 10th built. Doesn't look like they will, and I think they'll regret it.


----------



## Nexis

New Work locos..


----------



## trainrover

^^ What's new about them?


----------



## Woonsocket54

trainrover said:


> ^^ What's new about them?


This new locomotive (OL912) was built in Idaho and just delivered to the MTA on May 1.









more info here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/6990447978/


----------



## Woonsocket54

Times Sq station - 1/2/3 trains









site: http://www.jamesmaherphotography.com/photoblog_view_post/756-melting-pot


----------



## Fan Railer

Suburbanist said:


> I have a question... I know MTA is one of the most bloated, inefficient of all transit agencies in US and filled with union fat cats. Thus, short on money as well (combined with their populist fare policy).
> 
> Still, why in hell can't t they give cheap makeover to subways stations. I'm not talking of full refurbishments, but things that are relatively cheap such as:
> 
> - better lighting with LED lights + LCD information panels on tracks
> - frequent repainting
> - removing tiles (which are prone to dust/dirt accumulation in the joints) and putting a small bare concrete cover which is much easier to clean
> - false roof to collect all sorts of water infiltration in the stations
> 
> ================================
> 
> A second question: when is MTA expected to have all subway stations fit for disabled access? Of all my criticisms of old subway systems, the fact they can get away with shunning out most disable people is among the most serious.


LCD information panels on tracks? What for? 
Frequent repainting is a waste of money.
I agree with the third and fourth points.

But to be honest, in case you haven't noticed, the MTA is already tied up with rehabilitation projects of outdoor stations. They just finished the Brighton line, and are still working on the Culver Viaduct and the Rockaway branch. In addition, they're investing enough capital in the extension projects they are working on. It will be some time before they have enough free resources to improve the worst of the worst underground stations.

After all, if it works (for now) why spend more money to fix it?


----------



## Woonsocket54

Suburbanist said:


> I have a question... I know MTA is one of the most bloated, inefficient of all transit agencies in US and filled with union fat cats. Thus, short on money as well (combined with their populist fare policy).
> 
> Still, why in hell can't t they give cheap makeover to subways stations. I'm not talking of full refurbishments, but things that are relatively cheap such as:
> 
> - better lighting with LED lights + LCD information panels on tracks
> - frequent repainting
> - removing tiles (which are prone to dust/dirt accumulation in the joints) and putting a small bare concrete cover which is much easier to clean
> - false roof to collect all sorts of water infiltration in the stations
> 
> ================================
> 
> A second question: when is MTA expected to have all subway stations fit for disabled access? Of all my criticisms of old subway systems, the fact they can get away with shunning out most disable people is among the most serious.


As far "LCD information panels on tracks" I am not sure how that would be useful. The trains move over the tracks, and it makes more sense to put them somewhere on the platform than on the tracks.

As far as disabled access, the buses are completely ADA-accessible. I think ADA requires elevators, although escalators might be able to help out more people (though might be more expensive). The three ways of getting into the subway all have their shortcomings:

1. Stairs - cannot be used by disabled and anyone who has trouble walking stairs (elderly)
2. Escalators - cannot be used by disabled
3. Elevators - cannot be used by people with sensitive olefactory nerves (due to smell of urine)

Obviously we need all 3 in each station, but this doesn't come cheap.


----------



## Sunfuns

New York subway system obviously works, but as far as esthetics and cleanliness goes virtually every other subway I have used (only in Europe and DC so far) is superior...


----------



## Woonsocket54

Sunfuns said:


> New York subway system obviously works, but as far as esthetics and cleanliness goes virtually every other subway I have used (only in Europe and DC so far) is superior...


----------



## Alargule

He's got a point, nonetheless...


----------



## CairnsTony

Fan Railer said:


> From off the top of my head, the 9th avenue and 6th avenue IRT elevated lines were turned into the 1, 2, 3, and B, D, F, and M lines in manhattan. The 3rd ave el became the lexington line (4, 5, 6). The other elevated lines were just torn down and never replaced. However, as you should know, they are TRYING to build the 2nd avenue subway now, which would replace the 2nd ave el.


Are there maps available anywhere of the old elevated lines that are no more? It would be especially interesting if they can be superimposed on the existing subway routes for comparison and to give an impression of what they were replaced with?


----------



## Alargule

The els weren't replaced or turned into subway lines. The el lines followed different routes and ran along different avenues. In that sense, the former el lines were complementary to the subway network which was built at a later stage. Only (a part of) the 6th Avenue El got torn down and replaced by the IND 6th Avenue line (1940).

The 2nd Avenue El was supposed to be replaced by an IND subway line, too, but that never happened. The 9th and 3rd Avenue Els were torn down and never replaced by subway routes.

A map from 1939 shows all the el and subway lines that were around at the time:


----------



## CairnsTony

Wow that's a really useful map, thanks for that. The 9th Ave El looks like it curves around in Lower Manhattan and becomes the 3rd Ave EL with the 2nd Ave EL branching off it and another branch over the Brooklyn Bridge. Does anyone know if that's the case or is that simply the impression the map gives?

It does beg the question as to why the ELS were torn down then if they weren't subsequently replaced?


----------



## Alargule

CairnsTony said:


> Wow that's a really useful map, thanks for that. The 9th Ave El looks like it curves around in Lower Manhattan and becomes the 3rd Ave EL with the 2nd Ave EL branching off it and another branch over the Brooklyn Bridge. Does anyone know if that's the case or is that simply the impression the map gives?


The map doesn't really show the real situation accurately, indeed  The 9th and 3rd Ave Els both ended at South Ferry, and weren't (operationally) linked to each other. The Brooklyn Bridge terminal was an altogether different terminal for old El lines coming from Brooklyn. It did not connect to the Manhattan Els. A track map from the 1920's:












> It does beg the question as to why the ELS were torn down then if they weren't subsequently replaced?


The Els were considered an eye sore and a health risk, running above ground, not allowing any daylight to reach the streets below (which begs the question, in turn, why the same criteria did not apply to skyscrapers which equally deprived Manhattan streets from daylight...), noisy with steel trains running on steel tracks on steel constructions. Were there any plans to replace them with underground lines? No doubt, but those plans were never carried out. Costs must have been the main reason, I guess.


----------



## CairnsTony

Alargule said:


> The map doesn't really show the real situation accurately, indeed  The 9th and 3rd Ave Els both ended at South Ferry, and weren't (operationally) linked to each other. The Brooklyn Bridge terminal was an altogether different terminal for old El lines coming from Brooklyn. It did not connect to the Manhattan Els. A track map from the 1920's:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Els were considered an eye sore and a health risk, running above ground, not allowing any daylight to reach the streets below (which begs the question, in turn, why the same criteria did not apply to skyscrapers which equally deprived Manhattan streets from daylight...), noisy with steel trains running on steel tracks on steel constructions. Were there any plans to replace them with underground lines? No doubt, but those plans were never carried out. Costs must have been the main reason, I guess.


There are elevated lines left though aren't there, or are they all outside Manhattan?

Thanks for the track diagram. Some fascinating and dare I say 'quirky' station layouts with 'side on' platforms and funny little side branches. That sort of stuff fascinates me.


----------



## Frank IBC

CairnsTony said:


> There are elevated lines left though aren't there, or are they all outside Manhattan?


All of the original els in Manhattan - the ones that you see on that map - were removed by 1955. Two of the lines in the Bronx were incorporated into the subway, or were built as part of the subway and ran concurrently with el trains. The line between 149th Street and Gun Hill Road (the more westerly of the two) closed in 1973.

Many of the original els in Brooklyn were incorporated into the subway system, while some lines were closed - 3rd/5th Avenue, Myrtle Avenue, Lexington Avenue, and east end of Fulton/Liberty Avenue (rebuilt on new alignment).

Several elevated lines were built in the outer boroughs as part of the subway. There is one section of the subway in Manhattan that runs above ground - the West Side IRT comes above ground in the vicinity of 125th Street, where the line crosses a deep valley.


----------



## Woonsocket54

Frank IBC said:


> There is one section of the subway in Manhattan that runs above ground - the West Side IRT comes above ground in the vicinity of 125th Street, where the line crosses a deep valley.


The 1 train also goes elevated again in the Inwood and Marble Hill districts of Manhattan.


----------



## Woonsocket54

New York Post
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/eek_subway_rat_attacks_woman_on_5AUj3bSeUBr6fob6v0EyEP



> *Eek! Subway rat attacks woman on A train*
> By JENNIFER FERMINO, Transit reporter
> 
> Last Updated: 3:22 PM, June 8, 2012
> Posted: 3:21 PM, June 8, 2012
> 
> 
> A rat slipped on a crowded A train at the height of rush hour this morning and clawed a woman’s leg during the seven minute trip from 125th Street to Columbus Circle, officials said.
> 
> The traumatized woman was rushed off the train when it arrived at the 59th Street station and taken to St. Luke’s Hospital for treatment to the scratches on her leg.
> 
> She was treated and released, according to a hospital spokesman.
> 
> Her name was not released.
> 
> The MTA said it does not know how the rat got on board.
> 
> “We just have a lot of people out there trying to make sure it doesn’t happen again,” said MTA spokesman Charles Seaton.
> 
> “Supervisors will be conducting additional inspections and bringing any issues they may see to the attention of cleaners. It is important to note that we routinely clean subway cars, station platforms and track areas of debris that may attract rodents.”
> 
> [email protected]


----------



## Frank IBC

Woonsocket54 said:


> The 1 train also goes elevated again in the Inwood and Marble Hill districts of Manhattan.


Ah, how did I forget that one? I've even rode on that stretch.


----------



## Frank IBC

Alargule said:


> A map from 1939 shows all the el and subway lines that were around at the time:


The dark lines that are not surrounded by other colors are the el lines that were closed.

For a time, Fulton Street, Brooklyn, had both an el and a subway. The el lines east of East New York were integrated into the subway, with a realignment in the vicinity of Pitkin Street. The 3rd/5th Avenue was duplicated by the 4th Avenue subway for about 10-20 years. The Franklin Avenue shuttle is the only remaining legacy of these lines, although it actually pre-dated the els.


----------



## sweet-d

I feel kinda bad because I lol'd at that rat attack article.


----------



## CairnsTony

Frank IBC said:


> All of the original els in Manhattan - the ones that you see on that map - were removed by 1955. Two of the lines in the Bronx were incorporated into the subway, or were built as part of the subway and ran concurrently with el trains. The line between 149th Street and Gun Hill Road (the more westerly of the two) closed in 1973.
> 
> Many of the original els in Brooklyn were incorporated into the subway system, while some lines were closed - 3rd/5th Avenue, Myrtle Avenue, Lexington Avenue, and east end of Fulton/Liberty Avenue (rebuilt on new alignment).
> 
> Several elevated lines were built in the outer boroughs as part of the subway. There is one section of the subway in Manhattan that runs above ground - the West Side IRT comes above ground in the vicinity of 125th Street, where the line crosses a deep valley.


Thanks for that; it explains my confusion about how the ELs and the subway related to one another.

You mentioned the Franklin shuttle in a later post. This reminds me a bit of the Aldwych shuttle in London which is now closed due to low ridership. Does the Franklin shuttle get much ridership or is it justified more as a 'rush hour' connector between two other lines?


----------



## Frank IBC

CairnsTony said:


> Thanks for that; it explains my confusion about how the ELs and the subway related to one another.


The reason why the older els were not integrated with the subway was that their structure was not strong enough to support the larger, heavier subway cars, and the curves were too sharp. El cars could run on subway lines, but not vice-versa. Most el cars were made of wood, although there were some special lightweight metal cars that were designed specifically for old els. One example was the Bluebird car:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluebird_Compartment_Car_%28New_York_City_Subway_car%29

Wooden el cars were banned from the subway following the Malbone Street crash in 1918.



CairnsTony said:


> You mentioned the Franklin shuttle in a later post. This reminds me a bit of the Aldwych shuttle in London which is now closed due to low ridership. Does the Franklin shuttle get much ridership or is it justified more as a 'rush hour' connector between two other lines?


The ridership on the Franklin Avenue Shuttle is among the lowest in the system. New York City has been trying to shut down the Franklin Avenue Shuttle for decades. But they gave up and just did a major renovation of the line a decade ago.

The Brighton line started out as a surface, steam line, starting near the present Fulton/Franklin Avenue station, then running along the Franklin line and from there down what is now the Brighton Beach line down to Coney Island. After the el was built, Brighton trains started in the Brooklyn Bridge terminal, crossed the Brooklyn Bridge, took the Fulton Street el, and then turned sharply onto Franklin Avenue.

The 1939 map shows a line connecting the Culver Line to the West End and Fourth Avenue lines (plus the older Fifth Avenue El). This line was later separated from the rest and operated just as a shuttle, like the Franklin Avenue line. But it was closed about 30 years ago.

(Feel free to correct any errors, New Yorkers.)


----------



## Woonsocket54

DNAinfo
http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/201...struck-killed-by-subway-trains-brooklyn-bronx



> *Two Men Struck and Killed by Subway Trains in Brooklyn, The Bronx *
> June 12, 2012 8:25am | By Alan Neuhauser, DNAinfo Reporter/Producer
> 
> 
> NEW YORK — Two men were struck and killed by subway trains in unrelated incidents that occurred within an hour of each other in Brooklyn and The Bronx Monday night, authorities said.
> 
> In the first incident, a man lying on the rail bed at the Avenue M station at East 16th Street in Midwood was hit by a Manhattan-bound Q train at 8:16 p.m., the MTA reported. He was transported to New York Community Hospital and pronounced dead, NYPD and FDNY officials said.
> 
> Police said the incident appears to be a suicide.
> 
> Less than an hour later, a southbound D train leaving the 167th Street station in Concourse hit and killed a man on the tracks, according to the MTA. It remains unclear why the man was on the tracks.
> 
> Service on the Q and D lines was suspended for nearly two hours after the incidents, the MTA said.


DNAinfo
http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20120612/hamilton-heights/woman-hit-by-1-train-hamilton-heights



> *Woman Hit by 1 Train in Hamilton Heights*
> June 12, 2012 9:59am | By Alan Neuhauser, Maya Shwayder
> 
> MANHATTAN — A southbound 1 train hit a woman in Hamilton Heights during the Tuesday morning rush hour, authorities said, as she apparently leaned over the tracks to look for an oncoming train.
> 
> The woman, whose identity was not released, was hit at the 137th Street-City College station at 7:36 a.m., the FDNY and MTA said. She suffered a non-life-threatening head injury, and was taken to Harlem Hospital, officials said.
> 
> The woman was struck as she leaned over the tracks from the platform, said an MTA employee, who stated that he saw the collision.
> 
> "Maybe she was looking for the train," he said.
> 
> Southbound 1 trains bypassed the 137th Street-City College station for about 30 minutes after the incident, the MTA said.


137th St has countdown clocks - no need to crane your neck down the tracks.


----------



## Silly_Walks

How is the standardization of the doors on New York's subway cars? Would it be easy to put up some railing to prevent people falling on the tracks?


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
That's been mentioned here before. Although some of the newer trains are pretty standardized in number of doors per car and door width, some of the older trains vary.


----------



## Silly_Walks

HARTride 2012 said:


> ^^
> That's been mentioned here before. Although some of the newer trains are pretty standardized in number of doors per car and door width, some of the older trains vary.


Yeah I thought I remembered that being mentioned, I just wanted to make sure. In this case I would urge them to standardize door-to-door distance so they can put up some cheap railing at the most dangerous stations, and platform screen doors at the "fanciest" stations.


----------



## Woonsocket54

This is at 9th Ave station on the D train in Brooklyn


----------



## Fan Railer

Silly_Walks said:


> Yeah I thought I remembered that being mentioned, I just wanted to make sure. In this case I would urge them to standardize door-to-door distance so they can put up some cheap railing at the most dangerous stations, and platform screen doors at the "fanciest" stations.


the second avenue subway will have platform screen doors. not sure when they'll roll out to the rest of the stations though. probably when the MTA finally gets out of its budget woes..... which probably won't happen for a generation....


----------



## Skyrobot

If its there, do it. Dangerous stunts, can't stop the exuberance of youth.


----------



## Fan Railer

Old clip from 2011 showing a Staten Island Railway Express reaching 60 mph. I didn't even know that this was still possible LOL. Enjoy =)


----------



## HARTride 2012

If the MTA had the funds to do so, they could install PSDs of these kind.


----------



## ranieri

*Elevateds, subways and the 2nd Avenue Subway.*

I was born just one block east of the 3rd Avenue El. It was the premiere El because of the distance it covered. But, due to one budget shortfall after another, the replacement subway on 2nd Avenue has been postponed. That shows the constant mis-management of both the City of New York and the transit management. This was planned 90 years ago and it is still a financial mess and not yet done. The Franklin Shuttle should be left alone because it serves an area that has many riders that need that link. It's been re-modeled. It works. Leave it alone. Fix the 7 line, that where more coverage is needed. That should always have been a subway from Day 1. So, build one now. New York should not have to worry about costs. In the end, if the 7 line had 6 tubes under ground, it would forever stop the nonsense. It's a crime that transit on the state level as well the entire country gets less funds than they need. You want a strong economy? Get the people to where they can work. Want to clear off the highways? Put a railroad right next to it. Philadelphia, Trenton, Manhattan, the Lehigh Valley area (population over 600,000) all need to be linked by rail. The New York subway system has flaws for sure, but it can be improved with better management. Why isn't this being addressed?


----------



## NoName678

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...tion-36-Street-Sunset-Park-MTA-160629545.html



> A Brooklyn man's video showing a series of subway riders tripping on the same step while exiting a station in Sunset Park has caught the attention of the MTA.
> 
> Posted online Wednesday, it instantly made its rounds on various blogs and forums. The video, by filmmaker Dean Peterson, opened with a message: "The subway station I use every day has something very peculiar about it... One of the stairs is a fraction of an inch higher than all the others."
> 
> In less than 12 hours, "New York City Subway Stairs" had 330,000 views.


See video at the link. The MTA has now blocked off the stairs.


----------



## Nexis




----------



## Suburbanist

When will MTA replace outdated, old tunnel lamp bulbs (for lighting) by modern LED ones?


----------



## Nexis

Suburbanist said:


> When will MTA replace outdated, old tunnel lamp bulbs (for lighting) by modern LED ones?


Theres no good reason to , they work fine...and are off most of the year...


----------



## MarneGator

^ Better tell the MTA to stop their system-wide replace of tunnel lights for LED bulbs, since it's part of their capital program. (I've noticed that the Broadway Line, from the Queens portal to 57 Street-7 Avenue, has LED bulbs, and although I don't use this line often, I think the 53 Street tunnel is also lit by LEDs.) It's in their capital program because LED bulbs last considerably longer the existing incandescent bulbs as well as having higher luminous efficiency.

*Edit* Whoops... the Broadway Line between Lexington Ave-59 St and the Queens portal (to Astoria) does _not_ have LED bulbs.


----------



## Woonsocket54

I'm not even going to post this directly here for fear of being banned. These are the most gruesome subway videos ever concerning a horrible incident Sunday night at Herald Square:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVkVZnSImtk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUykJlCOeYI


----------



## Winged Robot

Those videos are indeed gruesome. A chilling visual reminder of how dangerous third rail tracks can be.

On another note, I can't believe someone whipped their camera out and recorded the whole thing like it was some kind of show. Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't feel at all right doing it.


----------



## Woonsocket54

Winged Robot said:


> I can't believe someone whipped their camera out and recorded the whole thing like it was some kind of show. Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't feel at all right doing it.


If I am not mistaken, there are some jobs where being late will get you fired. However, you might be eligible for leniency if you can provide proof that your train was not running on time. In fact, this direct proof from the MTA is available for commuter rail (http://www.mta.info/accountability/) but not yet for subways.


----------



## Nexis

Woonsocket54 said:


> I'm not even going to post this directly here for fear of being banned. These are the most gruesome subway videos ever concerning a horrible incident Sunday night at Herald Square:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVkVZnSImtk
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUykJlCOeYI


Really? STOP POSTING THIS SHIT , SERIOUSLY ...ENOUGH OF THE SUICIDES AND IDIOTS FALLING ON THE TRACKS....YES I'M TYPING IN CAPS , I'M FED UP WITH THESE POSTS....


----------



## Woonsocket54

No one forced you to click on the link. It's more constructive to complain to the mods or even to try to become a mod yourself than to resort to all caps.

Other than the so-called "Tubeman" I am not aware of any active mods in the subway forums.


----------



## Suburbanist

That is why NYC should adopt platform screen doors in its stations.

That MTA might not have the money to build them once system wide I can understand... that they build new stations like New South Ferry without platform doors, it is inexcusable.


----------



## Billpa

Woonsocket54 said:


> No one forced you to click on the link. It's more constructive to complain to the mods or even to try to become a mod yourself than to resort to all caps.
> 
> Other than the so-called "Tubeman" I am not aware of any active mods in the subway forums.


Just for the record, I did NOT click on the links, but I can't imagine going to the motorways section and posting videos of people standing in a highway lane and being killed by a truck at speed. I'm not sure what the point of it is.


----------



## trainrover

I suggest hyperlinking to the (astonishing :uh rule to your post above


----------



## coth

Svartmetall said:


> Vartal: Firstly, I am sorry but you do have to speak English on the international sections of the forum - this is the rule. That doesn't mean you should be attacked for your posts though.
> 
> Just because someone doesn't speak English and offers their opinion it doesn't mean they are trolling. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and if you can disprove it with fact, that's all well. Regular posters in this thread cannot expect occasional writers to read the whole thread so if comments are made multiple times then this is just how it is. Remain civil please.


Nope. There is no official language in world section. English is preferred, but not necessary. If anyone doesn't know English he is free to post in his own language, so anyone who knows that language will translate it or anyone who wants to read it will translate it on its own using online translators (and this way, not using just one translator to post, because it will be unreadable).

He was asking why is it so dirt in NYC Subway. But in my opinion his post was with little bit of trolling intention. He always like that in Russian section.


----------



## vartal

coth said:


> But in my opinion his post was with little bit of trolling intention. He always like that in Russian section.


How did you get that, I like it and that I breed trolling?


----------



## sbarn

Nexis said:


> Really? STOP POSTING THIS SHIT , SERIOUSLY ...ENOUGH OF THE SUICIDES AND IDIOTS FALLING ON THE TRACKS....YES I'M TYPING IN CAPS , I'M FED UP WITH THESE POSTS....


Agreed. This thread is a joke.


----------



## Svartmetall

coth said:


> Nope. There is no official language in world section. English is preferred, but not necessary. If anyone doesn't know English he is free to post in his own language, so anyone who knows that language will translate it or anyone who wants to read it will translate it on its own using online translators (and this way, not using just one translator to post, because it will be unreadable).
> 
> He was asking why is it so dirt in NYC Subway. But in my opinion his post was with little bit of trolling intention. He always like that in Russian section.


Actually, it was decided as of June this year to make all international forums English speaking only and so it will be enforced here. Please take it up with admins if you disagree.


----------



## coth

Replyed in mod section


----------



## IanCleverly

Woonsocket54 said:


> This is near Coney Island/Stillwell Ave station
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/7535427020/


Are the three 'wood guards' there to protect other workers from any flying sparks from welding?


----------



## Silly_Walks

IanCleverly said:


> Are the three 'wood guards' there to protect other workers from any flying sparks from welding?


I assume it is for other people getting blinded by the welding arc.


----------



## Geography

> And the system runs 24-7, and is actually used 24-7, so they can't shut down large sections of it just to clean it.
> 
> In general, it's hard to find money for infrastructure when you spend over $1 Trillion a year on the military. But I'd rather have a system that ran 24-7 and was a little dirty, than one that ran 18 hours a day 7 days a week.


Many riders have commented on the filthiness of the NYC subway compared to other systems around the world, including the older London Tube. The rationale for dirty subways is that it's old, under-funded, and runs 24/7, leaving no time for cleaning. But what about the cleaners not doing their jobs?


> However, our undercover cameras found another problem: from the #4 Line in the Bronx, to the N Line in Queens, to the L in Brooklyn, we found subway cleaners more interested in reading the newspaper, chatting with fellow workers or texting on the phone than doing their jobs. Jobs for which are paid *$23 an hour*.
> 
> At the end of the D-line in the Bronx, cars come all the way from Coney Island and are in need of serious cleaning. There is trash and spilled soda, shoe-sticking filth, yet Eyewitness News observed a team of four cleaners one afternoon and found most of them doing very little. A lot of them stand around talking to each other or to the engineer, while one worker cleans a car or two on each train. It meant the majority of train cars on the D-Line would head back out, having to never been cleaned.


ABC News
I know NYC is expensive, but holy cow, $23/hour for a cleaning job? Plus benefits I imagine. It's not like the cleaners are living in Manhattan, they probably live in cheaper New Jersey and commute to work.

Maybe the reason the NYC subway is so dirty is because the workers are slacking. Where is the management to bust some heads? In this economy I'm sure there are tons of hard-working people who would love to have their job. I bet some hard-working immigrants would do a better job for half the wage if only to get the opportunity to raise their children in America.


----------



## herenthere

Geography said:


> Many riders have commented on the filthiness of the NYC subway compared to other systems around the world, including the older London Tube. The rationale for dirty subways is that it's old, under-funded, and runs 24/7, leaving no time for cleaning. But what about the cleaners not doing their jobs?
> 
> ABC News
> I know NYC is expensive, but holy cow, $23/hour for a cleaning job? Plus benefits I imagine. It's not like the cleaners are living in Manhattan, they probably live in cheaper New Jersey and commute to work.
> 
> Maybe the reason the NYC subway is so dirty is because the workers are slacking. Where is the management to bust some heads? In this economy I'm sure there are tons of hard-working people who would love to have their job. I bet some hard-working immigrants would do a better job for half the wage if only to get the opportunity to raise their children in America.


It's called cowardly workers being protected by their union, the TWU. Management can't do too much without getting scorned by the union and getting accused of being discriminatory or mistreating them. Then the unions get on the news, which then turns into a media firestorm, typically won by the union. During contract negotiations, management such as the MTA cannot add procedures such as greater accountability, increased contributions to healthcare, or the easier ability to fire workers because then this is "unfair" to workers and places them under too much stress.

Just look at the Con Ed strike, excuse me, "lockout." Union said that the city would not last without their members through the first, then second, heat wave. Three heat waves and 4 weeks later and no major problems.


----------



## Suburbanist

US$ 23/hour + benefits for cleaning a train station sounds just wrong for public employees of subsidized public agency...


----------



## desertpunk

*MTA Completes Digging 13 Miles of New Tunnels for Megaprojects*












> LONG ISLAND CITY — The last of seven huge 200-ton tunnel boring machines completed work this week for 13 miles of new tunnels now under New York City for three MTA megaprojects: East Side Access, Second Avenue Subway and the 7 train extension.
> 
> The machine, named Molina by students from I.S. 204 in Long Island City, completed digging the last of four East Side Access tunnels in Queens on Monday, MTA officials said.
> 
> Molina came to a halt six feet underneath the LIRR Main Line in Long Island City marking "the end of tunnel boring for the East Side Access project, and in fact, all MTA megaprojects," transit agency officials said in a statement.
> 
> The machines started digging in 2007 for the three projects, which aim to make commuting faster and easier.
> 
> The East Side Access project, which will connect the LIRR's Main and Port Washington lines in Queens to a new LIRR terminal beneath Grand Central Terminal in Manhattan, is scheduled to be completed by August 2019.
> 
> The 7 train extension is due in December 2013 and the Second Avenue Subway project in December 2015.
> 
> [...]
> Read more: http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/201...of-new-tunnels-for-megaprojects#ixzz2250dGhtW


----------



## miketpa

As someone who lived in NY until the mid 90's and now goes back every once in a while, the subway system now is light years ahead of where it was 10-15 years ago. There is certainly plenty that can be fixed/improved upon as far as stations go, but last month none of the stations I saw had much litter and the trains themselves were clean. However, if the MTA and the Port Authority try to get people to use the E train and the AirTrain, they really need to do something about the Sutphin Ave station. If someone visiting NY had any hesitation about the subway system (and there did seem to be quite a few European tourists doing this, not just NYers) its a deplorable welcome to the system.


----------



## Woonsocket54

miketpa said:


> if the MTA and the Port Authority try to get people to use the E train and the AirTrain


I think the current focus is on AirTrain + LIRR to Penn. Sutphin Station is not directly connected to AirTrain; it requires a bit of a walk outside.


----------



## Nexis




----------



## Woonsocket54

East 180th Street station in the Bronx, one of the hidden gems of the New York subway









http://nycsubway.org/perl/show?136285


----------



## flapane

A couple of thoughts/questions on Franklin Ave Shuttle:

- there's a lot of litter on the embankments around (and between) the elevated stations. I wonder if suspended hardware cloths over the embankments would do the trick (they would be way easier to clean than embankments themselves).

- is the second train used during rush hours only? I've always seen it stationed at Prospect Park near the Coney Is. bound rail (while the Shuttle rail is on the other side of the platform). The frequency seems to be better during daylight, but that might be just an impression.



Woonsocket54 said:


> I think the current focus is on AirTrain + LIRR to Penn. Sutphin Station is not directly connected to AirTrain; it requires a bit of a walk outside.


I agree, but... (see next answer)



miketpa said:


> However, if the MTA and the Port Authority try to get people to use the E train and the AirTrain, they really need to do something about the Sutphin Ave station. If someone visiting NY had any hesitation about the subway system (and there did seem to be quite a few European tourists doing this, not just NYers) its a deplorable welcome to the system.


As someone who returns regularly (not only on vacation like in the last weeks) I usually tend to take the A train unless while landing on late nights (when it also stops on C train stations too), but I get what you mean. It's a *bad* welcoming for first time visitors.
I'm not sure if first visitors tend to take LIRR, but it would be really interesting to see some data about it.


----------



## trainrover

​


----------



## trainrover

Once upon a time ... ​


----------



## trainrover

Once upon a time ...​


----------



## trainrover

Maybe you can answer me, bd popeye, I was going to ask the following in the cont'l forum. How come the train to the run featured in the following video is categorised express, I don't follow the rationale? The city-bound J train made all stops except for the three stns twixt Myrtle and Marcy Avs, as filmed starting 1'20"? I mean, wouldn't it have just been worthwhile to have stopped at the three stops on the nearly-30-station line to its route?


----------



## bd popeye

> Maybe you can answer me, bd popeye, I was going to ask the following in the cont'l forum. How come the train to the run featured in the following video is categorised express, I don't follow the rationale? The city-bound J train made all stops except for the three stns twixt Myrtle and Marcy Avs, as filmed starting 1'20"? I mean, wouldn't it have just been worthwhile to have stopped at the three stops on the nearly-30-station line to its route?


I'm not sure but maybe the Z train that runs a local route on the same tracks was not fully operation that day. Who knows? the NYC subway is very quirky.


----------



## dale88

The J and Z are considered express trains because they do not stop at stations between Marcy Avenue and Myrtle avenue weekdays, during rush hour and in the peak direction, whereas the M line is making all local stops.

After Myrtle avenue the J and Z trains operate as skip stops trains, J trains will skip some stations that the Z will stop at and vice versa.

dale88


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## flapane




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## trainrover

Bombardier is forever disingenuous at not eliminating its unnecessary squealing brakes from its succession of subway stock ... or are those stock ^^ Kawasaki products:?


----------



## flapane

I don't know exactly what rolling stock is (if anybody knows, I'm gonna add it in the original video description), but my ears hate it when that happens...


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## trainrover

Once upon a time, Bombardier made stock free of squealing brakes ... the following video show's the firm's first ever model of rolling stock; now 36 years old, the brakes have taken to squealing just the past few years :yes:


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## Woonsocket54

New entrance at Atlantic-Pacific station in Brooklyn









http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/7997200311/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/7997200711/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/7997201029/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/7997206636/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/7997206396/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/7997199303/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/7997198619/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/7997205536/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/7997205006/


----------



## trainrover

​


----------



## trainrover

trainrover said:


>


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## Nexis




----------



## Woonsocket54

Future 34th st station on the 7 line
Sep 2012










http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...2330344091.446690.250313209090&type=1&theater


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## bulabog jalaur

trainrover said:


> Once upon a time, Bombardier made stock free of squealing brakes ... the following video show's the firm's first ever model of rolling stock; now 36 years old, the brakes have taken to squealing just the past few years :yes:



Needs to be replaced this rolling stocks.


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## bd popeye

bulabog jalaur said:


> Needs to be replaced this rolling stocks.


ahh that's in Montreal. trainrover was just pointing out Bombardier rolling stock brakes.


----------



## HARTride 2012

The trains in Montreal have rubber tire axles. The traditional steel wheel is on the inside and the rubber tire is on the outside. They tend not to squeal as much as traditional steel wheel trains, but that does not mean they don't squeal at all.

The trains in the video are that of the MR 73, they were built by Bombardier during the 1970s.

Actually, the oldest trains on the system are the MR 63, which looks like their newer counterparts, but have different engines, traction systems, etc. The MR 63 is based on their Parisian counterparts, the MP 59, which is currently the oldest rolling stock on the Paris subway.

These are the MP 59 stock on the Paris subway. They were manufactured by Alstom (makers of the R-160A) in 1963. The trains on Line 4 are currently being replaced.





Below are the trains replacing the MP 59 on Line 4, the MP 89. The MP 89 were manufactured by Alstom in 1995. They are the first "Metropolis" brand trains that Alstom manufactured. Versions of this train operate in Santiago, Chile. There is also a fully automated version that operates on the Paris Line 14 and on the Laussane, Switzerland Line 2.






And by the way, the MR 63 stock in Montreal are slated for replacement in 2014. Below is a concept car that demonstrates the new rolling stock, called the MPM 10. The MPM 10 is being manufactured via a consortium between Alstom and Bombardier.


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## trainrover

Their need for replacement's probably way less than for outdoor trains; the only weathering they experience is literally blood. Plus its braking is just as conventional as other stock ... better off at blaming today's quality of components at production


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## HARTride 2012

^^
That is true, as Montreal's system is completely underground.


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## Woonsocket54

Second Avenue subway progress as of 2012.10.14


SAS_0358 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


SAS_0375 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


SAS_0509 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


----------



## flapane

I've always wondered what's the point of asking the ZIP code when you buy a Metrocard using a credit card, if you can just digit 00000 and it works.


----------



## Silly_Walks

flapane said:


> I've always wondered what's the point of asking the ZIP code when you buy a Metrocard using a credit card, if you can just digit 00000 and it works.


Perhaps they are interested to know where their customers come from?


----------



## trainrover

Enough! Neither he nor coth is going to be forthcoming about any relevant suggestion (probably-not) brought forward to any type of SC moderator. This international forum --neither American nor Russian-- needn't be subjected to these impotent, tell-tale exchanges of nationalism vented upon linguistic premise: Please, quit this silliness ... besides, quoting him momentarily disengages his subscrition to my ignore list...


----------



## dengilo

For a millisecond i thought that was timber for repair works!:lol:


----------



## CCs77

Well the fact is that whether you like it or not, english has become the most international language, it is the most spoken second-language in the world. In the airports all over the world you can see that the signs are both in the local language AND english, always.
If in the international forum everybody uses their own language, it will become the Tower of Babel.
My language is spanish by the way, but I know that here I must write in english, in order to be understood.

Whatever, back on topic, some captions of the MTA video, showing the stairs and scalators leading to the platforms of the 1 train. As you can see the lower level is completely flooded.


























The stairs leading to the N and R trains. That platform has not been as severely flooded as the other one.


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## coth

Abhishek901 said:


> Come on coth. Doesn't it make sense for a non-english speaker to translate his message in English himself using
> http://translate.google.com/
> http://translate.bing.com/
> http://translate.yandex.com/
> instead of forcing 100 other members to translate the non-English message individually?


That wouldn't work that way, because of quality of those translators. You need to use several in a row to understand something. In other way it will be unreadable set of words.



Woonsocket54 said:


> Except for a few sites that have a .рф URL, almost every site in Russian is .ru, so I am wondering if you could explain to me how a Russian person using the Internet can do so without using the Latin alphabet.


That was one of main reasons why .рф was introduced. An absolute majority of runet users unable to understand domain names and utilize browser's address bar. People going to sites via search engines and bookmarks. Even still 2 years after launch of .рф domains and address bar are still too much complicated to majority of runet users.




New Jack City said:


> i'm an american from new york and participating in discussion, if you can't speak my language or the majority of the people's language, you are not participating. so speak english and save the local language for the local sub-forum.


Yet again. For English only there is NA Forum.


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## Woonsocket54

coth said:


> That was one of main reasons why .рф was introduced. An absolute majority of runet users unable to understand domain names and utilize browser's address bar.


Wrong.

Russian keyboards come standard with Latin and Cyrillic and everyone knows to press Alt+Shift to change between the two.


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## trainrover




----------



## New Jack City

coth said:


> Yet again. For English only there is NA Forum.


coth, as a mod you should know better, world forums are spoken english only. otherwise these forums will be cluttered with languages no one understands and no discussions can take place.

anyway back on topic, check this twitter guys plenty of updates and videos:

https://twitter.com/MTAInsider


----------



## trainrover

^^ Sharing an exclusive domain whereat creating an account be obligatory isn't all that engaging either ...


----------



## Woonsocket54

Ocean Parkway station in russophone Brooklyn









Robert Stolarik for The New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2012/10/31/sports/YJPNETS.html


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## Suburbanist

Guys, can you PLEASE take this annoying discussion about Internet domains to a Skybar or something?


----------



## VadBen

Please, return to the Québec forum, your comments are not appreciated. Also, you might consider brushing up on your grammar, it's atrocious.


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## HARTride 2012

We should get one of the Admins to start deleting nonsense posts here. hno:

Especially being that this is an emotional time for those affected by the storm.


----------



## Xusein

MTA still hasn't announced subway replacement services (like more buses), have they?

Today, many people will be going back to work. Commuting will be dreadful.


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## trainrover

cor! such prescience borne by a mere post count pegged at 3 ... oh! but what do I know coz I'm just an illiterate ... you, there, are proving yourself to be like most others, deflating the true meaning of relativity...like with atrocity, for example hno: The escalated serious uptakings of that pair and their direspectful incursions as the day progressed was ultimately predictable and quite telling ... many of you were had; their behaviour, for example, smacked of football hooliganism ... taking disrespect seriously is a ploy I seldom fall for; teasing it is where its amusement be found ... all that BS about linguistics is just a façade to vent wimpy national pride, period/full stop.


----------



## vartal

New Jack City said:


> i'm an american from new york and participating in discussion, if you can't speak my language or the majority of the people's language, you are not participating. so speak english and save the local language for the local sub-forum.


С чего это вдруг? Поскольку это тема в международной ветке, то я вполне могу писать на языке международного значения - на русском, носителями которого являются миллиарды людей на планете.


CCs77 said:


> Well the fact is that whether you like it or not, english has become the most international language, it is the most spoken second-language in the world.


А первый какой? Неужели русский?


CCs77 said:


> My language is spanish by the way, but I know that here I must write in english, in order to be understood.


Я пишу на русском, поскольку уважаю остальных пользователей форума и не выкладываю корявый перевод онлайн-переводчиков, чтобы быть хоть как-то понятым.


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## marciomaco

^^

Stupidity...
We understood it all -.-


----------



## flapane

Oh my...


----------



## HARTride 2012

Xusein said:


> MTA still hasn't announced subway replacement services (like more buses), have they?
> 
> Today, many people will be going back to work. Commuting will be dreadful.


I believe they are restoring bus services to as close to weekday service as possible today, all routes will be fare-free for at least the next couple days.


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## Woonsocket54

Clearing up things:

1. MTA is running all the buses they can. The buses are free and they're very crowded. It is not yet clear when subway service will be restored. Unfortunately there are very few routes that go between boroughs, but MTA has not announced whether they are running buses between Manhattan and Brooklyn, between which there are no regularly scheduled MTA buses (other than express buses which use the Hugh Carey/Brooklyn Battery Tunnel, which is currently flooded).

2. Russian is not spoken by billions of people, only by 200-300 million people.

3. Users from Canada and Russia have been using their own languages on this thread. This is acceptable for the Russian user since Russian can be run through Google translate; it is unacceptable for the Canadian user since the language used by that user cannot be run through Google translate.


----------



## Woonsocket54

Underwater escalator at South Ferry station


Escalator under Water @ South Ferry by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


South Ferry Subway Station Entrance under Water by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

Staircase at South Ferry


Staircase under Water @ South Ferry by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

South Ferry platform


South Ferry Station Platform by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


South Ferry Station Platform by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


----------



## Nikonov_Ivan

It is very strange, because in every other country government tries to make their metro systems fully automated. And this is very sad that because of couple of people NY subway will not be very good and modern


----------



## bd popeye

Nikonov_Ivan said:


> It is very strange, because in every other country government tries to make their metro systems fully automated. And this is very sad that because of couple people NY subway will not be good and modern


The US the Federal government has little to do with the NYC subway other than financial grants and subsidies.

In case you did not know the NYC subway has been running 24 hours a day 365 days a year since 1905(that's 108 years) with a few exceptions.

Blackout 1965...9 November 1965 (13 hours)
Blackout 1977...July 13–14, 1977
09.11.2001...partial service resumed a few days after the attack
Blackout 2003.. Aug.15-16, 2003
Hurricane Sandy Nov 2012.....The Subway was out of service in lower Manhattan and Brooklyn for several days. But in about two weeks time the system was up and running.

tell me does the Moscow metro operate 24/7/365? I don't think so.


----------



## Nikonov_Ivan

^^ No, it is not NY subway is practically the only metro system in the world, which operates 24 hours.


----------



## ajw373

bd popeye said:


> The article is referring to the old South Ferry Station ..which be re-opened.
> 
> 
> 
> Read that paragraph^^ One station $500 million dollars..one station.
> 
> This is why you cannot rebuild every station in the NYC subway system. It cost to much. Period.
> 
> And of course the existing stations can be scrubbed and upgraded as need be.


In fairness not every station would cost $500m to replace, but I got to ask who wants to replace every station anyway?. 

With South Ferry it is in a pretty unique location and required a lot of engineering to build and keep the existing line running hence the cost. Discovery has a doco on the rebuild which is quite interesting to see what they were facing and gives an idea of why it was so expensive. I do wonder though what kind of damage will cause a 3 year closure and $600m rebuild. Must be lots of structural damage rather than cosmetic damage.


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## HARTride 2012

bd popeye said:


> I'm not sure,... but.. it could be because of these fine people...
> 
> Transit Workers Union Local 100
> 
> Those folks ^^ are not about to give up a single job without a fight.


Unions played a role in the automation of Line 1 in Paris, from what I heard from a report from the BBC. The RATP had to convince the unions that operators would be assigned to other lines. I'm sure it was not that easy.

The next line that could be automated in Paris is Line 4, the second busiest in their system. It won't be pretty if the union stages an uphill fight.

For NYC, I can see the unions staging an uphill battle against automation as well.



Minato ku said:


> No, there would still be a driver but he would not have to operate the train (He will only control the depart at station).
> The CBTC for Canarsie line is not a full driverless operation system like line 1 or 14 of Paris metro.


I heard that this was going to be the case for the Canarsie line. What the RATP in Paris refers to as ATO basically.


----------



## bd popeye

thanks HARTride 2012^^



> For NYC, I can see the unions staging an uphill battle against automation as well.


Yep.. they just don't want to give up a single job. If it is ever built perhaps some sort of compromise can be made. Such as a guarantee of union positions i.e. jobs..


----------



## webeagle12

alonzo-ny said:


> I've completely missed this but what in the hell happened to the new station and what do they mean by completely rebuild?!


http://www.mta.info/nyct/service/RestoringSouthFerryStation.htm


----------



## yankeesfan1000

*NYC Subway Ridership At 62 Year High, Despite Sandy Disruptions*
By Andrea Bernstein | 03/11/2013 – 12:22 pm










"New York City’s subway ridership rose 0.8% in 2012, despite storm Sandy-related shut downs and service disruptions. *According to figures released by the NY MTA Monday, some 1.654 billion riders rode the subways in 2012*, 13.7 million more trips than in 2011.

Weekend ridership grew by 3 percent, matching the all-time historic high for weekend ridership set in 1946...

...The system was shut for two days around storm Sandy. Eight tunnels flooded, and many lines from Brooklyn to Manhattan were shut for a week. The system is still not completely restored..."


----------



## Woonsocket54

East 180th St. Station by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


East 180th St. Station by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


East 180th St. Station by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


East 180th St. Station by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


East 180th St. Station by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


East 180th St. Station by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


NYCT_5339 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


NYCT_5332 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


NYCT_5311 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


NYCT_5281 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


----------



## Nikonov_Ivan

^^One more renewed station?


----------



## Woonsocket54

That's right.

Here is the information:

"A rededication ceremony was held on Fri., March 15, 2013 at the East 180th St. station on the 2 & 5 lines in the Bronx after extensive renovation and restoration work was done. The main structure of the station was built in 1912 as part of the defunct New York, Westchester & Boston Railway, a portion of which was turned into the Dyre Ave. line by the Transit Authority in 1940."

In my opinion this is one of the most beautiful subway stations in New York, and it helps that it wasn't built as a subway station. It is a graceful station but located in the middle of a poor neighborhood far away from any tourist attractions with the exception of the zoo.

At the opposite end of the scale is Bowery Station:









http://www.subwaynut.com/bmt/boweryj/p2.php

Among the dirtiest of all subway stations, it is scheduled to be cleaned for the first time in 99 years during the first Fastracks on the J train, scheduled for April 1-April 5, 2013:
http://www.mta.info/nyct/service/fastrack_schedule.htm


----------



## Nikonov_Ivan

^^ I think that the most beautiful station in NYC is closed station near Downtown( I don't remember it's name).


----------



## Woonsocket54

^^ That's right, the old City Hall station is also a pretty station.


----------



## Nikonov_Ivan

Yes, it is. Are there any chances that it will be opened again?


----------



## Nexis

Nikonov_Ivan said:


> Yes, it is. Are there any chances that it will be opened again?


Only for select tours....


----------



## phoenixboi08

Nikonov_Ivan said:


> Yes, it is. Are there any chances that it will be opened again?


The problem with it, is that it was designed when cars were shorter (if I'm not mistaken) so it can't handle the current, longer, length of the modern train sets - because it has a rather strong curve near the platform.


----------



## bd popeye

> At the opposite end of the scale is Bowery Station:


Yep.. and the Bowery station has been in operation since August 4th 1913..and yes it needs an upgrade!


----------



## Nikonov_Ivan

phoenixboi08 said:


> The problem with it, is that it was designed when cars were shorter (if I'm not mistaken) so it can't handle the current, longer, length of the modern train sets - because it has a rather strong curve near the platform.


So, maybe they could renovate or upgrade it to the present standards?


----------



## Suburbanist

City HAll station is also non-ADA compliant and thus can't be reopened.


----------



## Axelferis

i'm sorry but this whole metro (trains+stations) don't take me at all 
I regret no serious mega project metro renovation for such a big city.


----------



## HARTride 2012

OMG! And I thought that Chambers St - Line J was horrendous! Bowery is even worse! :/


----------



## Nikonov_Ivan

The Old South Ferry video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqW-k2OCt4E


----------



## Woonsocket54

Arnorian said:


> I tried gray, it was invisible.


Don't forget that M and E trains both run under 53rd Street east of 6th Avenue.


----------



## Arnorian

Yes, I missed that.


----------



## HARTride 2012

Old South Ferry (trains arriving/departing the loop & tour of the station, including the newer concourse and Whitehall St connection).


----------



## Woonsocket54

*Second Avenue Subway | 86th Street Station*


SAS_8086 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

Construction continues on the Second Avenue Subway's future 86th Street Station. This photo shows the latest progress as of April 2013.

Photo: Metropolitan Transportation Authority / Patrick Cashin.



SAS_8081 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


SAS_8070 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


SAS_8043 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


SAS_7975 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


SAS_7958 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


SAS_7953 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


SAS_7949 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


SAS_7935 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


SAS_7925 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


SAS_7920 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


SAS_7912 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


----------



## Nikonov_Ivan

Plan to extend No. 7 subway from NYC to New Jersey could be back on track
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/04/plan_to_extend_no_7_city_subwa.html


----------



## Woonsocket54

under the Bowery by gothamruins, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

Nikonov_Ivan said:


> Plan to extend No. 7 subway from NYC to New Jersey could be back on track
> http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/04/plan_to_extend_no_7_city_subwa.html


Its already dead again , and should stay dead as it wouldn't fix the problem like the Gateway Plan.


----------



## webeagle12

Nexis said:


> Its already dead again , and should stay dead as it wouldn't fix the problem like the Gateway Plan.


No it's not, learn how to read...

Study backs New York Subway Jersey extension

A new study for New York Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) has concluded that extending the 7 Subway beneath the Hudson River from Manhattan to New Jersey is viable, less than a year after the project was dismissed by the then MTA chairman Mr Joe Lhota.

The No. 7 Secaucus Extension Feasibility Analysis Final Report, carried out by Parsons Brinckerhoff, states: "The extension of the No. 7 Subway would result in the first trans-Hudson tunnel connection that would provide direct rail access from New Jersey, not only to the West Side of Manhattan, but also to the East Side and multiple locations in Queens. It would provide needed capacity across the Hudson River and advance the broader goal of enhancing regional connectivity."

According to the report, the project meets many of the objectives of the Access to the Region's Core (ARC) commuter rail tunnel cancelled in October 2010 and would help to accommodate sustained growth in trans-Hudson traffic, which is forecast to increase by 38% by 2030.

The proposed Jersey extension would run 11th Avenue/West 34th Street, currently under construction as part of the extension from Times Square, through new tunnels under the Hudson and the Palisades to reach an interchange with NJ Transit and Amtrak Northeast Corridor services at Secaucus Junction, New Jersey. The journey time between Secaucus and 34th Street would be eight minutes, while Grand Central would be reached within 15 minutes.

The study suggests daily ridership on the extension would reach around 128,000 passengers in both directions in 2035. Some of these will be existing rail passengers although the line is also expected to attract significant traffic from ferries and cars.

No capital costs have been given for the project, and the study says these would be developed at the next stage of analysis, the advanced planning phase, together with a refined engineering design and construction schedule.

The study can be viewed in full at the New York City Economic Development Corporation website. Click here for the PDF.

http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...york-subway-jersey-extension.html?channel=542


----------



## Nexis




----------



## Nexis

webeagle12 said:


> No it's not, learn how to read...
> 
> Study backs New York Subway Jersey extension
> 
> A new study for New York Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) has concluded that extending the 7 Subway beneath the Hudson River from Manhattan to New Jersey is viable, less than a year after the project was dismissed by the then MTA chairman Mr Joe Lhota.
> 
> The No. 7 Secaucus Extension Feasibility Analysis Final Report, carried out by Parsons Brinckerhoff, states: "The extension of the No. 7 Subway would result in the first trans-Hudson tunnel connection that would provide direct rail access from New Jersey, not only to the West Side of Manhattan, but also to the East Side and multiple locations in Queens. It would provide needed capacity across the Hudson River and advance the broader goal of enhancing regional connectivity."
> 
> According to the report, the project meets many of the objectives of the Access to the Region's Core (ARC) commuter rail tunnel cancelled in October 2010 and would help to accommodate sustained growth in trans-Hudson traffic, which is forecast to increase by 38% by 2030.
> 
> The proposed Jersey extension would run 11th Avenue/West 34th Street, currently under construction as part of the extension from Times Square, through new tunnels under the Hudson and the Palisades to reach an interchange with NJ Transit and Amtrak Northeast Corridor services at Secaucus Junction, New Jersey. The journey time between Secaucus and 34th Street would be eight minutes, while Grand Central would be reached within 15 minutes.
> 
> The study suggests daily ridership on the extension would reach around 128,000 passengers in both directions in 2035. Some of these will be existing rail passengers although the line is also expected to attract significant traffic from ferries and cars.
> 
> No capital costs have been given for the project, and the study says these would be developed at the next stage of analysis, the advanced planning phase, together with a refined engineering design and construction schedule.
> 
> The study can be viewed in full at the New York City Economic Development Corporation website. Click here for the PDF.
> 
> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...york-subway-jersey-extension.html?channel=542


This project is behind the Gateway which just needs funding and the MTA said it won't do it....NJT and PATH will team up and kill it which is why the Gateway will go through.


----------



## Arnorian

This may be a stupid question, but would it be possible to link lines 7 and L and fuse them into a single line?


----------



## Nexis

Arnorian said:


> This may be a stupid question, but would it be possible to link lines 7 and L and fuse them into a single line?


No the 7 is narrow and the L uses wider trains however they could meet in Chelsea somewhere. The Amtrak Gateway Project calls for the 7 to be extended to the New Penn Station south....


----------



## Arnorian

You mean the planned extension of line 7 to 11th Avenue/34th Street? Line L could go under the 10th Avenue to the 34th Street, a single subway station on line 7 seems not enough for when Hudson Yards development is finished. Maybe even extending line L farther uptown to the 72nd Street, covering Hell's Kitchen and giving it a connection with lines 1, 2, and 3. But excessive construction costs in NYC probably make this hypothetical.


----------



## towerpower123

Nexis, here is the report on the feasibility study for the 7 train extension.
http://www.nycedc.com/sites/default/files/filemanager/Resources/Studies/No_7_Secaucus_Extension_Final_Report_April_2013.pdf

The report is full of plans and sections. Parts of it are from 2011, when the idea first dawned. Ironically, the 7 SUBWAY line would go on the roof level at Secaucus Junction...
They better put some midway stations in Hoboken and/or the Palisades. The line will pass under the HBLR. According to that study, there will be numerous improvements to existing stations to accomodate the load. Secaucus Junction could easily handle the load, but I agree with you, The Gateway Project is far better, as it will accomodate High-Speed Rail, something that this country sorely lacks.


----------



## Suburbanist

The New Yorker put up an intractive graph that allows you to choose a line and see average income per station are. Quite fun: http://www.newyorker.com/sandbox/business/subway.html?mobify=0

Route N for instance


----------



## goten2255

*Extend PATH to Secaucus and other places in NJ and build Gateway project, not the 7 line*

Why in the heck are they doing this study for are they ignoring that PATH already does this it goes to New Jersey already with a New York and New Jersey partnership its easier to build an extension for PATH then it is for the NY Subway to NJ trust me, what the heck is bloomberg thinking Extend PATH.

PATH can be extended to other places in NJ like Elizabeth, Staten Island, North Bergen, Secaucus and Meadowlands, etc its easier to do so then the NY Subway anybody agree with me on this.

I fully support Gateway since that will also contribute to High Speed Rail but PATH expansion i support more then a NY Subway to NJ.

if NY subway wants to expand, expand to areas less served by the Subways like Co-op city, northeast queens, southeast queens, east brooklyn, Staten Island, Laguadia Airport, etc.


----------



## Woonsocket54

^^ Lol. A NY-NJ partnership requiring two states to agree to everything? That sounds like a wonderful idea. It's amazing the World Trade Center PATH station has been rebuilt in record time.


----------



## slipperydog

Governor Cuomo Announces Wireless Service Has Arrived at 30 Additional Underground Subway Stations

http://www.governor.ny.gov/press/04252013Subway-Wireless


----------



## Arnorian




----------



## trainrover

^^ its stark whiteness puzzled me some time ago ...


----------



## trainrover

28 May 2013







:
_New York PBS station criticizes reality TV with fake subway ads 


1. Big Bad Bag Boys





2. Knitting Wars





3. Bayou Eskimos





4. Dillionaire





5. Married To A Mime

_​


----------



## herenthere

trainrover said:


> 28 May 2013
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :
> _New York PBS station criticizes reality TV with fake subway ads _​


This just about sums up what were formerly known as the Discovery, History, Learning, and Weather channels. Documentary TV programming is down the hole these days. Nice work, PBS!


----------



## bd popeye

herenthere said:


> This just about sums up what were formerly known as the Discovery, History, Learning, and Weather channels. Documentary TV programming is down the hole these days. Nice work, PBS!


Exactly.. most of reality TV is fake or scripted.

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt...fake+scripted&fr2=sb-top&fr=moz35&type_param=

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++





> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IRT West Side Line
> Location: Broadway Bridge
> Route: 1
> Car: R-21/R-22 Series (Number Unknown)
> Collection of: George Conrad Collection
> Date: 11/3/1963






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IND 8th Avenue Line
> Location: West 4th Street/Washington Square
> Route: A
> Car: R-10 (American Car & Foundry, 1948) 3299
> Collection of: David Pirmann
> Date: 1960s(?)






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IND Queens Boulevard Line
> Location: Jamaica Center/Parsons-Archer
> Route: M reroute
> Car: R-160A-1 (Alstom, 2005-2008, 4 car sets)
> Photo by: Wilfredo Castillo
> Date: 11/4/2012






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IRT East Side Line
> Location: Bowling Green
> Car: Low-V
> Photo by: Harry Pinsker
> Date: 12/6/1959


----------



## Fan Railer

These are the results of my trip on June 4th, 2013
My round trip on the 7, with both express and local runs:





Clips from the newly rebuilt and reopened Rockaway branch. Personally, I love listening to the new track as the trains roll over them:













And finally other tidbits from that day:


----------



## Alargule

herenthere said:


> This just about sums up what were formerly known as the Discovery, History, Learning, and Weather channels. Documentary TV programming is down the hole these days. Nice work, PBS!


Absolutely! But we all know who to blame for these poor quality shows:


----------



## LouDagreat

So the Montague Street Tunnel will close for 14 months for Sandy related repairs.
http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1363437


----------



## Minato ku

Line R will be split in two.
http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/R_ServiceChanges.htm


----------



## phoenixboi08

If anyone is looking for a job, MTA has an (paid) internship position up.

Edit: can't post directly, just click the search button, and it's ID# 76996


----------



## Arnorian

Fan Railer said:


> These are the results of my trip on June 4th, 2013
> My round trip on the 7, with both express and local runs:


Excellent videos, especially the 7 train round trip. Do you plan to make more of these? Rides on the N and J trains would be interesting.


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Agreed.

Someone else did a cabview video of the entire F train in the southbound direction.

I would love to see a cabview video of the entire 1 train, both directions, while the "old" South Ferry is still open.


----------



## bd popeye

I remember in 1964 we were living in Cincinnati. I was supposed to go to the Worlds Fair with my great aunt. Something happened and I did not get to go..I was so disappointed. Oh yea .. she went and I stayed in Cincinnati.hno:





> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IRT Flushing Line
> Location: Times Square
> Route: 7
> Car: R-36 World's Fair (St. Louis, 1963-64) 9731
> Collection of: David Pirmann
> Date: 3/29/1964






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IRT Flushing Line
> Location: Grand Central
> Route: 7
> Car: R-36 World's Fair (St. Louis, 1963-64) 9367
> Collection of: Joe Testagrose
> Date: 1964




_You can clearly see Shea Stadium's upper deck in the back ground._


> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IRT Flushing Line
> Location: Willets Point/Mets (fmr. Shea Stadium)
> Route: 7
> Car: R-36 World's Fair (St. Louis, 1963-64) 9636
> Collection of: David Pirmann
> Date: 5/10/1964






> *City:* New York
> *System:* New York City Transit
> *Line:* IRT Flushing Line
> *Location:* Willets Point/Mets (fmr. Shea Stadium)
> *Route:* 7
> *Car:* R-36 World's Fair (St. Louis, 1963-64) 9750
> *Collection of:* David Pirmann
> *Date:* 4/16/1964


----------



## bd popeye

When I was a kid my sister and I were sent off nearly ever summer to visit my mom in New York...

I loved riding on the subway. I remember I really like the Low-V cars. Why? Simple. a little kid could stand up and see out of them because the windows were low. Many times my mom would accommodate me and go to the lead car so myself and my sister could look out. 

Those of you that ever rode on a Low-V know that there motors had a distinctive sound.

By the way, Low-V means Low voltage.





> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IRT Brooklyn Line
> Location: Borough Hall (East Side Branch)
> Car: Low-V
> Collection of: George Conrad Collection






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IRT East Side Line
> Location: 125th Street
> Car: Low-V LV31 (ex-5439)
> Photo by: Doug Grotjahn
> Collection of: Joe Testagrose
> Date: 1/24/1971






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IRT East Side Line
> Location: 14th Street/Union Square
> Car: Low-V 5475
> Collection of: George Conrad Collection






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: 3rd Avenue El
> Location: 149th Street
> Route: 8
> Car: Low-V 5639
> Collection of: David Pirmann
> Date: 10/11/1963


----------



## bd popeye

Lov-V on Fan Trips and special runs.











You can gear that special motor noise starting at about 3:19 on this video. Just a little. You need to be aboard the train to really hear it.


----------



## Fan Railer

Arnorian said:


> Excellent videos, especially the 7 train round trip. Do you plan to make more of these? Rides on the N and J trains would be interesting.


there are full line railfan vids for the J already on youtube, so i don't plan on doing that one, and the N would be difficult since there is no direct railfan window, which makes tunnel shots pointless.


----------



## HARTride 2012

HARTride 2012 said:


> I would love to see a cabview video of the entire 1 train, both directions, while the "old" South Ferry is still open.


And I refer to the present time, not before the "new" one opened in 09.


----------



## Fan Railer

HARTride 2012 said:


> And I refer to the present time, not before the "new" one opened in 09.


Also, doing such a video on the 1 would technically be easier, BUT considering I would have to film through the tiny cab window, and might make the Operator uncomfortable, I'm not sure that would work out very well either.


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Hmmmm....


----------



## Axelferis

disapointing metro for this city i repeat.

it's incredible to not see state of the art designed cars? :uh:
when i look at this city and amazing things (new one trade center etc...) incredible to not see a metro that meets the prestigious of the town :nuts:


----------



## Nexis

Axelferis said:


> disapointing metro for this city i repeat.
> 
> it's incredible to not see state of the art designed cars? :uh:
> when i look at this city and amazing things (new one trade center etc...) incredible to not see a metro that meets the prestigious of the town :nuts:


Really? Those are the historic cars , they only come out a few times a year... Your trolling of this thread is becoming ridiculous. Each city Metro is different , not everyone wants to model after Paris.


----------



## Alargule

Is this the English you get when you use Google Translate?


----------



## bd popeye

Axelferis said:


> disapointing metro for this city i repeat.
> 
> it's incredible to not see state of the art designed cars? :uh:
> when i look at this city and amazing things (new one trade center etc...) incredible to not see a metro that meets the prestigious of the town :nuts:


Here's a link to the present day rolling stock of the New York City subway.

*Current Fleet New York City Subway*


----------



## flapane

Axelferis said:


> disapointing metro for this city i repeat.
> 
> it's incredible to not see state of the art designed cars? :uh:
> when i look at this city and amazing things (new one trade center etc...) incredible to not see a metro that meets the prestigious of the town :nuts:


What's wrong with the current rolling stock?


----------



## bd popeye

flapane said:


> What's wrong with the current rolling stock?


Nothing in my opinion! Many of the NYC subway cars were & are built by Kawasaki Rail Car in Yonkers NY. Just a stone's throw from Manhattan.





> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IRT Pelham Line
> Location: Whitlock Avenue
> Route: 6
> Car: R-142A (Option Order, Kawasaki, 2002-2003) 7665
> Photo by: Neil Feldman
> Date: 2/1/2013






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Route: 6
> Car: R-142A (Primary Order, Kawasaki, 1999-2002) 7562
> Photo by: Neil Feldman
> Date: 2/1/2013






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IRT Dyre AV Line
> Location: East 180th Street
> Route: 5
> Car: R-142 or R-142A (Number Unknown)
> Photo by: Wilfredo Castillo
> Date: 8/18/2012


----------



## Nikonov_Ivan

^^ From inside they look really good, but from outside they could be better... But I love them


----------



## bd popeye

Nikonov_Ivan said:


> ^^ From inside they look really good, but from outside they could be better... But I love them


And unlike some metros on this planet they run 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.


----------



## XAN_

Well it's not individual trains that are running 24|7|365, but the entire line, so it has more to do with track and tunnel maintenance... Trains are going into maintence workshops after certain period and/or certain distance travelled anyway.


----------



## bd popeye

XAN_ said:


> Well it's not individual trains that are running 24|7|365, but the entire line, so it has more to do with track and tunnel maintenance... Trains are going into maintence workshops after certain period and/or certain distance travelled anyway.


I'm sure most members understood what I meant. And ^^ you are of course correct.


----------



## HARTride 2012

My favorite NYC Subway rolling stock is the R-160A. Some people may not like the noise the trains create as they pull into the station, but I certainly do!


----------



## Woonsocket54

HARTride 2012 said:


> My favorite NYC Subway rolling stock is the R-160A. Some people may not like the noise the trains create as they pull into the station, but I certainly do!


I myself am a fan of the R32, and I will be upset when they're scrapped in three years.


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Those R-32s have sure lived a good life. They will definitely be missed.


----------



## bd popeye

HARTride 2012 said:


> ^^
> Those R-32s have sure lived a good life. They will definitely be missed.


A hardy AMEN to that!^^ 





> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IND 8th Avenue Line
> Location: 207th Street
> Route: A
> Car: R-32 (Budd, 1964) 3404
> Photo by: Glenn L. Rowe
> Date: 5/6/2009






> Country: United States
> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IND 8th Avenue Line
> Location: Chambers Street/World Trade Center
> Route: A
> Car: R-32 (Budd, 1964)
> Photo by: Phillip Lee
> Date: 7/18/2006






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IND Rockaway
> Location: Beach 67th Street/Gaston Avenue
> Route: A
> Car: R-32 (Budd, 1964) 3407
> Photo by: John Dooley
> Date: 8/11/2011






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IND Fulton Street Line
> Location: Broadway/East New York (Broadway Junction)
> Route: C
> Car: R-32 (Budd, 1964)
> Photo by: Trevor Logan
> Date: 12/6/2001


----------



## printguru

Don't know how many of you have heard, but Penn Station is due for a drastic redesign in another ten years. The first designs were submitted by Skidmore, Owings & Merrill (designers of Freedom Tower and Burj Khalifa). Curious to hear your opinions on this as I think that hatred of the current Penn Station is all but unanimous.



















Photos Copyright: Skidmore, Owings & Merrill LLP

More pics: http://fineprintnyc.com/blog/penn-station-2023-part-1


----------



## webeagle12

printguru said:


> Don't know how many of you have heard, but Penn Station is due for a drastic redesign in another ten years. The first designs were submitted by Skidmore, Owings & Merrill (designers of Freedom Tower and Burj Khalifa). Curious to hear your opinions on this as I think that hatred of the current Penn Station is all but unanimous.
> 
> Photos Copyright: Skidmore, Owings & Merrill LLP
> 
> More pics: http://fineprintnyc.com/blog/penn-station-2023-part-1


I will bet my wallet this will not happen because of cost. It will defiantly will be scaled down (if it happens)


----------



## Nikonov_Ivan

This designs are too expensive. Won't ever happen. What do you think, guys?


----------



## bd popeye

Nikonov_Ivan said:


> This designs are too expensive. Won't ever happen. What do you think, guys?


I agree. It's probably expensive NOW.. what will it be in ten years? Any cost estimation. 

In my opinion it's nothing more than a dream.


----------



## Vertical_Gotham

*Light-rail push for 42nd Street gets rolling

An initiative to replace cars and buses on 42nd Street with light rail has gone nowhere without the mayor on board, but backers aim to convince his successor*












> A citizen's initiative to revolutionize 42nd Street with light rail has been stopped in its tracks since the mayor declined to get on board, but supporters are courting his potential successors.
> 
> The proposal would ban cars from 42nd Street and install a trolley-like system, transforming the crowded thoroughfare into a pedestrian space.
> 
> "Crosstown movement in midtown is torture," said Roxanne Warren, co-chair of vision42, the group behind the plan. "It's a disgrace for such an important city. We should be proud of 42nd Street."
> 
> It would seem an odd time to push such an ambitious project. Mayor Michael Bloomberg has just under 200 days left in office and has shown no signs of taking action on the proposal, which has bubbled up occasionally over the years. According to Ms. Warren, when vision42 initially approached Mr. Bloomberg, he dismissed its idea as competitive with his $2 billion extension of the No. 7 subway line from Times Square to the far West Side, currently under construction.
> 
> Now, light rail on 42nd Street seems to have lost all traction in the administration: A spokeswoman for Mr. Bloomberg said she was unfamiliar with the plan.
> 
> Fans of the project are instead wooing the 2013 mayoral candidates. They already have backing from eight elected public officials, including a City Council member, three state senators and two congressional representatives. Ms. Warren said she is optimistic that the proposal will receive serious consideration from the next administration.
> 
> According to vision42, the 2.5-mile light-rail line would cost between $360 million and $510 million, roughly one-tenth what subway construction costs per mile. With the increased pedestrian traffic that the reconfiguration of 42nd Street would generate, the group estimates that business at retail shops and restaurants would increase by 35%.
> 
> "What we would do is have this [light rail] within a fully-landscaped, walking environment," said Ms. Warren. "Eliminating traffic will allow space for cafés and other amenities." According to a study conducted by vision42, about 60% of restaurateurs on 42nd Street would consider opening sidewalk cafés if light rail were installed.
> 
> Lucius Riccio, former commissioner of the Department of Transportation, loves the idea. "Why should San Francisco have all the fun?" he said. "I'd like to see us have more pedestrian-friendly efforts."
> 
> But a deputy commissioner for the agency, Seth Solomonow, was quick to point out that there have already been major improvements to the 42nd Street area in recent years, including the No. 7 train project, a Times Square pedestrian plaza and a high-tech traffic management system in midtown.
> 
> "This corridor already has some of the most extensive bus and subway service in the city, and we recently implemented bike-share stations in the area," he added.
> 
> Buses on 42nd Street, however, are notoriously pokey. According to the Straphangers Campaign, a transit advocacy effort in the city, the M42 was Manhattan's slowest bus 2012, with an average speed of just 3.9 miles per hour at noon on a weekday.
> 
> Ms. Warren believes the light-rail system would be far superior. "It's a smoother, more appealing ride, it has three times the capacity, and it has a permanence that reinforces new development," she said.
> 
> Light rail is used in major cities throughout the U.S., including Boston, Los Angeles and Philadelphia. Light-rail proposals for 42nd Street date as far back as 1994, when a plan was approved by the City Council. It died for lack of funding.


----------



## Nikonov_Ivan

^^ Wow!!! Amazing project! It will be amazing, if NY get tram system. But it can cause big problems with traffic in midtown, isn't it?


----------



## flapane

The project looks great, but...



> According to vision42, the 2.5-mile light-rail line would cost between $360 million and $510 million, roughly one-tenth what subway construction costs per mile.


What? $3.6B to $5B *per mile* for a subway? $200M/mile would already be expensive by european standards.


----------



## bd popeye

> Light-rail push for 42nd Street gets rolling
> 
> An initiative to replace cars and buses on 42nd Street with light rail has gone nowhere without the mayor on board, but backers aim to convince his successor


unless properly engineered this will not work. The north south traffic on the cross streets can be horrific. There's nothing wrong with the Times Square Square shuttle.


----------



## Arnorian

I really don't understand why is subway construction so expensive in NYC. I've read the unions being blamed for it, but workers are unionized is Europe too, and their salaries can't explain such a big difference.


----------



## sotonsi

Arnorian said:


> I really don't understand why is subway construction so expensive in NYC. I've read the unions being blamed for it, but workers are unionized is Europe too, and their salaries can't explain such a big difference.


Land costs for stations, a lack of tunnel engineers due to the infrequency of building underground railways*, difficult-to-cut-through rock...

Flapane can't do maths: it's a 2.5 mile line, so that is $1.44bn to $2bn per mile for subway construction. And $200m/mile seems very cheap for Paris or London - even for Madrid it seems cheap. Maybe pure tunneling, with underground stations costing an extra $200m each. This makes a New York mile of subway, at 'Madrid prices' be $600m/mile. New York is 2-3 times the price, but that seems more reasonable than the 7-10 times that the outrageously low figure of 200m/mile costs.

London's 2-mile, 2-station Northern line extension needs a £1bn loan (so 1 milesworth of New York subway), though other costs like trains (which are expensive) being paid for without loans, or absorbed into other projects. Both stations on the extension are simple, with no need for interaction with another line, and Battersea won't require demolition or land purchase (as it's being built as part of a redevelopment with the developers being the ones paying back the loan). New York's prices seem about right with that.

Just for stations, an upgrade of Victoria is to cost £1bn, Tottenham Court Road and Bond Street crossrail stations are about £1bn a piece. Part of this is having to deal with existing passengers while carrying out the works.

London (well, Watford's) Croxley Rail Link - a 1/2 mile viaduct over a canal and a road, 2 miles of surface railway reopening, 2 new stations (one using infrastructure moved from a nearby station that will be closed) will cost £115m. That's with no tunnels, no new trains, simple stations, no demolition (other than along the former rail alignment, which is overgrown and has platforms in the way), little land purchase. It's not like New York is expensive, just that Madrid is cheap!

*London, in an attempt to combat this problem, has built an academy, linked with Crossrail, training ~100 rail tunnel expert constructors. This will be useful for HS2 (which, while not urban, has quite a bit of tunneling), Crossrail 2 and Northern, Bakerloo and DLR extensions all in the pipe for the next 20 years.


----------



## flapane

sotonsi said:


> Flapane can't do maths: it's a 2.5 mile line, so that is $1.44bn to $2bn per mile for subway construction.


Actually, I can.
It's the article which is prone to misunderstandings. http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2657543


----------



## sbarn

Vertical_Gotham said:


> *Light-rail push for 42nd Street gets rolling
> 
> An initiative to replace cars and buses on 42nd Street with light rail has gone nowhere without the mayor on board, but backers aim to convince his successor*


I don't understand this project. Both the 7 Train and the Times Square / Grand Central Shuttle line run below 42nd Street. Why is there a need for a third line? Put this project on Houston Street, 23rd Street, 34th Street, 79th Street, 125th Street where cross town train service is needed (and doesn't exist). Even the Brooklyn / Queens waterfront is in more need of better transit access than 42nd Street.


----------



## Vertical_Gotham

*@ Sotonsi & @ Arnonian*

This 42nd street rail project would be a lot cheaper in cost to build compared to other subway projects. The 42nd street rail is above ground and not underground so costly tunneling would not be necessary.

Building a new subway line in NYC is very expensive. There are currently 2 subway projects being constructed.

* Phase 1 of 2nd Avenue line and the No. 7 extension line.*

The price tag respectively for each of the projects are currently a hefty $5.3 Billion (Phase 1 of 2nd Ave) and $2.1 Billion (No. 7 ext.) 

Here is an interesting article about the costs and why it may be so expensive in particular to the 2nd ave subway. (Reader's comments are interesting too)

*The costs of Second Ave. construction*
http://secondavenuesagas.com/2010/01/14/the-costs-of-second-ave-construction/

Another article comparing costs to other rail projects globally
*US Rail Construction Costs*
http://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2011/05/16/us-rail-construction-costs/ 


*@ sbarns*

You are right about the shuttle and the No. 7 extension. I totally forgot about that. lol! I totally agree this project would be outstanding and more necessary for the other major cross streets. 

I however think this would be an awesome project for 42nd as well. The idea maybe closing up all of 42nd street and having a one big pedestrian plaza done right with shops and restaurants all along the corridor would be great. This corridor would bring a lot of tourists and regular foot traffic here. It would be great for the area economically imo.

:cheers:


----------



## Nikonov_Ivan

^^ Don't forget that they are renovating some stations and buying new trains too. 
But is it really necessary to ban all the transport on this street?


----------



## Vertical_Gotham

^^ a good question. I don't know what kind of effect it will have should they decide to ban all traffic on 42nd street. I don't know for some reason when i'm around 42nd street I don't see many cross town traffic there. I may be wrong and I don't know why I perceive it as that so maybe it would not have a big impact. lol. They would definitely have to do a traffic study and see how it would effect midtown area as a whole.


----------



## Nikonov_Ivan

^^ Well, it would be the longest pedestrian in the world, LOL
I think it would be better, if the transport was banned partially.


----------



## sotonsi

flapane said:


> Actually, I can.
> It's the article which is prone to misunderstandings. http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2657543


Certainly the article is iffy, though that 'Senior member' on that forum didn't comprehend what you were trying to say I said (which was right), let alone the article.

He talks about the $360m-$510m being the total cost, not a per-mile cost of the light-rail - well duh, hence why I divided by length to get a fair comparison between the two.


> According to vision42, the 2.5-mile light-rail line would cost between $360 million and $510 million, roughly one-tenth what subway construction costs per mile.


This is quite clearly a comparison, therefore to be a legit comparison, both prices need to be per mile. Especially as it gives you a length for the light-rail. Otherwise you are comparing cost verses cost/distance, which is apples and oranges.

If it was comparing the cost of 2.5 miles light-rail v 1 mile subway, then it would say: "According to vision42, the 2.5-mile light-rail line would cost between $360 million and $510 million, roughly one-tenth of what a mile of subway construction costs".


Vertical_Gotham said:


> *@ Sotonsi & @ Arnonian*
> 
> This 42nd street rail project would be a lot cheaper in cost to build compared to other subway projects. The 42nd street rail is above ground and not underground so costly tunneling would not be necessary.


And the relevance of that no-brain statement is? Do you understand what the dispute is here? It's simply that New York subway costs are not $3.6-$5bn per mile.


> Building a new subway line in NYC is very expensive. There are currently 2 subway projects being constructed.
> 
> * Phase 1 of 2nd Avenue line and the No. 7 extension line.*
> 
> The price tag respectively for each of the projects are currently a hefty $5.3 Billion (Phase 1 of 2nd Ave) and $2.1 Billion (No. 7 ext.)


Both about the same as equivalent projects in London: the Bakerloo extension via the Old Kent Road (admittedly an option rejected due to there being a cheaper route with better benefits) and the Northern line extension, when you account for various discrepancies between the two (shorter trains, smaller profile trains, additional rolling stock cost partially hidden, etc).

Looking, the costs of the Flushing extension are $1.6bn a mile ($2.1bn/2.1km) and the Second Ave Subway, per the source given, is $1.7bn a mile. This fits in with my reading of the badly-worded article.

Yes, it is expensive, but it's not that dissimilar from the expensive parts of Europe, nor is it anywhere near $5bn/mile!

Oh, and $5bn isn't that hefty - Crossrail was topping $30bn when the pound was high - now about 20 (£13bn, having dropped from £17bn about 4 years ago).


----------



## HARTride 2012

sotonsi said:


> difficult-to-cut-through rock...


Yup, and schist in many cases. I hear that's a nightmare to have to cut through. But you basically have no other choice but to cut through schist because its the next level below all of the pipes and sewers of the city.


----------



## flapane

sotonsi said:


> Certainly the article is iffy, though that 'Senior member' on that forum didn't comprehend what you were trying to say I said (which was right), let alone the article.
> [...CUT...]
> If it was comparing the cost of 2.5 miles light-rail v 1 mile subway, then it would say: "According to vision42, the 2.5-mile light-rail line would cost between $360 million and $510 million, roughly one-tenth of what a mile of subway construction costs".


I'm not sure he didn't comprehend it (actually, the average level among native speakers on wordreference.com is pretty high), however a good writer should me as much clear as possible. 
Linguistics is a complex matter, and writing a good article is not as easy as it may seem. As a non native speaker, I wanted to hear someone else's opinion. The text I quoted from vision42, and we agree on this, could be misinterpreted. Feel free to create an account on wordreference and ask for other opinions or add yours.


----------



## LouDagreat

So the entire planned 2nd Avenue Subway from Phase I to Phase IV, wont be completed til... 2060?


----------



## Arnorian

By that time conversion of metro systems to low-speed maglev will be done in other countries.


----------



## bd popeye

This thread is about..

*The New York City Subway*






Long video but... Excellent!


----------



## trainrover

"Elevated platform, Canal Street" as featured in 1949, from 17'41" to 20'10":





​


----------



## bd popeye

Excellent "Film Noir" trainrover! I've seen that film..recently on one of my roku box channels..


----------



## trainrover

I was hoping that you must've seen it :cheers2:


----------



## waccamatt

sbarn said:


> I don't understand this project. Both the 7 Train and the Times Square / Grand Central Shuttle line run below 42nd Street. Why is there a need for a third line? Put this project on Houston Street, 23rd Street, 34th Street, 79th Street, 125th Street where cross town train service is needed (and doesn't exist). Even the Brooklyn / Queens waterfront is in more need of better transit access than 42nd Street.


Manhattan is so narrow - even if you have to walk across the entire width of the island it's only about a mile. I don't see much need for east west lines.


----------



## bd popeye

waccamatt said:


> Manhattan is so narrow - even if you have to walk across the entire width of the island it's only about a mile. I don't see much need for east west lines.



A little wider than that.

How wide is midtown Manhattan?



> Approximately 2 miles (3.22 kilometers). According to the measurements I got using Google Maps and a tape measure, Manhattan Island is exactly:
> 
> 2.06 miles (3.32 km) or 10,888.88 feet (3,318.93 meters) wide at 33rd Street
> 
> 2.06 miles (3.32 km) or 10,888.88 feet (3,318.93 meters) wide at 40th Street
> 
> 2.02 miles (3.25 km) or 10,666.67 feet (3,251.20 meters) wide at 47th Street
> 
> 2.02 miles (3.25 km) or 10,666.67 feet (3,251.20 meters) wide at 52nd Street
> 
> 2.10 miles (3.38 km) or 11,111.11 feet (3,386.67 meters) wide at 58th Street


 Manhattan at its widest is at 14th street. 2.3 miles.


----------



## Arnorian

Jay-Z's birthplace, Bedford-Stuyvesant, is named after a Dutch guy. Dutch place is history is secure.


----------



## city_thing

Bergen is a city in Norway. Maybe it was named after that?


----------



## flapane

^^ It seems so...



> Hans Hansen Bergen (circa 1610 – 1654) was one of the earliest settlers of the Dutch colony of New Amsterdam, and one of the few from Scandinavia. He was a native of Bergen, Norway. Hans Hansen Bergen was a shipwright who served as overseer of an early tobacco plantation on Manhattan Island





> ...Now here's the modern Brooklyn connection. When Sarah was all of fourteen years old, she was betrothed to the owner of an early tobacco plantation, a man named Hans Hansen Bergen (from Bergen, Norway). Hans and Sarah moved to a large property around today's Brooklyn Navy Yard, an estate she maintained long after her husband's death.
> 
> Descendants with the names of Rapalje and Bergen would feature prominently in Brooklyn history. When the streets of the early city of Brooklyn were delineated in the early 19th century, they were ultimately fastened with the name of important families. Hans and Sarah were not forgotten. Years later, the Bergens would not only have a street named for them, but an entire neighborhood (Bergen Beach) and, much later, even a couple subway stops.


----------



## Alargule

Well, it was more that the apostrophe in "Berg'n" (versus "Bergen") reminded me of the way Germans would pronounce the word, especially in the southern part of Germany.

But whatever. My musings were hardly on topic anyway


----------



## Woonsocket54

SAS_5089 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr
This photo from July 2013 shows the continuing progress on the future 86th Street Station of the Second Avenue Subway.

Photo: Metropolitan Transportation Authority / Patrick Cashin.


SAS_4930 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

This photo from July 2013 shows the continuing progress on the future 86th Street Station of the Second Avenue Subway.

Photo: Metropolitan Transportation Authority / Patrick Cashin.


SAS_4741 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

This photo from July 2013 shows the continuing progress on the future 86th Street Station of the Second Avenue Subway.

Photo: Metropolitan Transportation Authority / Patrick Cashin.


SAS_4706 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

This photo from July 2013 shows the continuing progress on the future 86th Street Station of the Second Avenue Subway.

Photo: Metropolitan Transportation Authority / Patrick Cashin.


SAS_4666 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

This photo from July 2013 shows the continuing progress on the future 86th Street Station of the Second Avenue Subway.

Photo: Metropolitan Transportation Authority / Patrick Cashin.


SAS_4649 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

This photo from July 2013 shows the continuing progress on the future 86th Street Station of the Second Avenue Subway.

Photo: Metropolitan Transportation Authority / Patrick Cashin.


----------



## Woonsocket54

An interesting version of NYC subway map based on concentric circles. This was drawn up by a British bloke. The current version is useless as it's riddled with mistakes, but still, a fascinating design idea.

http://gothamist.com/2013/07/25/fun_map_nyc_subway_map_as_a_circle.php


----------



## sotonsi

Woonsocket54 said:


> An interesting version of NYC subway map based on concentric circles.


New York's network really lends itself to the format, whereas London's doesn't.


> This was drawn up by a British bloke.


British academic whose work is in mapping. 'Bloke' may be a little hat tip to British English, but it means regular guy/unknown guy and when it comes to transit maps Dr Roberts isn't just a bloke.


> The current version is useless as it's riddled with mistakes, but still, a fascinating design idea.


Riddled? there might be a few, but Max is rather anal retentive when it comes to getting things right - the map will almost certainly not be 'riddled' with mistakes.

In his book _Underground Maps After Beck_ he comments on a map how someone (IIRC, Beck himself) used a 42-degree angle in one area of London, rather than the 45-degree (you might just notice it, but not think it was worth fixing) and how he altered the map to have a 45-degree angle.


----------



## Woonsocket54

^^ There are at least two big ones. 30 Av Station in Queens is missing, and Ft Hamilton Pkwy Station and Church Av Station in Brooklyn are in the wrong order. Anyway, this isn't the final version, so I am sure the mistakes will be corrected in due course.


----------



## Woonsocket54

*Old City Hall Station*


City Hall Station by gothamruins, on Flickr


i'll catch the next one by gothamruins, on Flickr


----------



## Woonsocket54

*Montague Tubes repair work*

The Montague Tubes, carrying the R train under the East River, are shut down for the next 14 months for repair work. The underwater tunnel was damaged during Hurricane Sandy last year. The R train has been split into two parts - one part going from Forest Hills (Queens) to Whitehall Street; the other from Court Street (Downtown Brooklyn) to Bay Ridge, Brooklyn.



















On weekends, the R train will go over the Manhattan Bridge, but there will be no service to downtown Brooklyn or the Manhattan financial district.


Fix&Fortify: Final "R" Train at Court St. by MTAPhotos, on Flickr
The last Manhattan-bound "R" train enters the Court St. Boro Hall station in Brooklyn shortly after 11:00 P.M. on Friday, August 2, 2013, before a major 14-month rehabilitation project. Part of the MTA Fix&Fortify program to repair damage from Hurricane Sandy and protect the Montague tubes beneath the East River from future damage, the "R" will run in two sections during the week and be re-routed over the Manhattan Bridge on weekends.

(Photo: MTA New York City Transit / Marc A. Hermann)


Fix&Fortify: Final "R" Train at Court St. by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Fix&Fortify: Final "R" Train at Court St. by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


----------



## Arnorian

Are these notification like in the last picture regularly posted in languages other than English? In which ones?


----------



## flapane

Well, you can see some korean and russian announcments in some neighborhoods. In particular the ones regarding idiot jokes which could lead to death. 
I'm not sure about the ones about rail works or closures, but if I can recall, sometimes they can be in spanish too.


----------



## Woonsocket54

Announcements and literature are printed in foreign languages suited to the neighborhoods served by trains/stations. R train advisories are also in Chinese because the R train serves two major Chinese neighborhoods (Chinatown and Sunset Park). Russian advisories can be found in Brighton; Korean in Flushing, etc.


----------



## IanCleverly

Sky News UK said:


> New York commuters are used to keeping their eyes open for anything fishy - but they got a shock on discovering a dead shark. Passengers on the subway were asked to leave the train at Queens so a conductor could remove the carcass from under a row of seats.
> 
> A number of photos of the animal have been posted online including one with a cigarette in its mouth with a ticket and a can of energy drink.
> 
> Transit officials said they were aware of the photos but are making no effort to find the person who posted them as they had "better things to do".
> 
> http://uk.news.yahoo.com/dead-4ft-shark-found-york-subway-train-042016994.html#5eeZBPU


Let the puns commence.


----------



## CNB30

^^ Sharknado is real!


----------



## Kolothos

We've had sandsharks, but now... Tunnelsharks?!


----------



## DaeguDuke

Kolothos said:


> We've had sandsharks, but now... Tunnelsharks?!


Sharks on a MF Train


----------



## Silly_Walks

Something smells fishy... 




:troll:


----------



## Arnorian

I've redone the map to fix mistakes:










larger version


----------



## L.A.F.2.

I was there the weekend they started changes, and I saw them in Spanish as well.


----------



## Woonsocket54

Fix&Fortify - Greenpoint Tubes by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

Work continued in the Greenpoint Tubes on the weekend of August 9, 2013 as damage from Hurricane Sandy is repaired.


Fix&Fortify - Greenpoint Tubes by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


----------



## Woonsocket54

*Reopening of Central Av station (M train) after 5-month rehab project - 2013.08.16 2000 GMT*


Central Ave. by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Central Ave. by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Central Ave. by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Central Ave. by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


----------



## trainrover

Good to see NYC finally publishing its night map.


----------



## Alargule

Yes, toothpaste.


----------



## Woonsocket54

Train service on the B and Q trains in Brooklyn is temporarily suspended because a stray cat wandered onto the track.

http://ditmasparkcorner.com/blog/tr...church-ave-due-to-debris-or-cat-on-the-tracks


----------



## trainrover




----------



## Woonsocket54

^^


----------



## trainrover




----------



## bharatiya

^^ Mumbai literally every day.


----------



## trainrover

NYC's dingy though


----------



## flapane

There will always be people who don't care about their own life, no matter how many DANGER signs they'll see in the stations.


----------



## trainrover

No wonder driving crazier than smoking


----------



## trainrover




----------



## Nikonov_Ivan

*New York subway extension ’90% complete’*

A $2.4 billion extension to one of New York’s busiest subway lines is now 90 per cent complete – six years since construction first started.

The city’s transport authority, MTA, believes that the 7 Line Extension, which includes a new station at 34th/11th Avenue, will accelerate development on the west side of Manhattan.

Work began on the two-kilometre twin-bored tunnels in 2007.

The new subway section will extend the IRT Flushing Line from Times Square out towards the site of the proposed Hudson Yards development.

http://www.globalrailnews.com/2013/08/23/new-york-subway-extension-90-complete/


----------



## nr23Derek

Two Km, one station, 6 years and not finished yet?

Seriously?

Derek


----------



## Nikonov_Ivan

^^ I guess, it is really expensive to build metro in NY and MTA really has problems with money, so that is why it is so slow( but it is only my guess, I may be mistaken),


----------



## ajw373

nr23Derek said:


> Two Km, one station, 6 years and not finished yet?
> 
> Seriously?
> 
> Derek


Manhattan is built on more or less solid rock. Hence the massive buildings. Solid rock is not that easy to tunnel through. But yes would have thought 6 years was a bit too long though.


----------



## trainrover

More like the racketeering construction sector there


----------



## Nikonov_Ivan

I know, this article is rather old an maybe it was posted here before, but guys, how do you think? I think that they should install this doors even if they cost 1 billion$. Many of the modern metro systems started to install such doors( even Lonond's old system has them). So, i think it ist time for NY to make subway a bit safer...

*M.T.A. Cites $1 Billion Cost to Install Gates on Subway Platforms*

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/29/n...platform-gates-could-cost-1-billion.html?_r=0


----------



## trainrover

Probably more worthwhile to be erecting kerbside barriers than platform-edge ones


----------



## solgoldberg

*Stale photo of "West Side yards"*



dimlys1994 said:


> Today:


FWIW that Crain's NY photo is probably a couple of months old. The actual subway stop that is opening to revenue service in ~June 2014 is to the left (north) of the photo.

The tail tracks (south of the new station) for the #7 extension run under the photographer' vantage point, which is the 11th Ave viaduct.

The photo below is of the headhouse 12/11/2013. Photo is looking SW from 34th St. with a vent building for this site behind it.










MTACC (Capital Construction) photographed this same site in March 2012, looking west this time. The current headhouse sits on top of the opening in the deck near the center bottom of this photo. 11th Ave is the road across the photo near the top. The vent building in the 12/11 photo rose from the deeper pit at 11th Ave & 33rd st.:









MTACC 2012-05 07 "7 Extension, Site J, photographed in March 2012."


----------



## dimlys1994

Today official from MTA:



> *Master Lessee Assigned for Fulton Center*
> December 18th, 2013
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Fulton St. subway station_
> 
> The Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) has announced that it intends to designate the mall developer/operator Westfield as the master lessee for substantial portions of the Fulton Center, the new transit hub and retail destination nearing completion in Lower Manhattan.
> 
> The master lease will encompass the majority of the non-station areas of the Fulton center complex, most prominently, the new glass and steel Fulton Building at the southeast corner of Broadway and Fulton Street; the historic Corbin Building at the northeast corner of Broadway and John Street; the Dey Street Headhouse at the southwest corner of Broadway and Dey Street; and the corridor under Dey Street that will connect to the World Trade Center in the future. The master lease will encompass approximately 180,000 square feet of space, including approximately 63,000 square feet of commercial space (roughly one-third office and two-thirds retail), some 60,000 square feet of public circulation areas and 57,000 square feet of mechanical and other “back-of-house” space. The initial term of the Westfield lease will activate when the Fulton Building’s public circulation areas open, scheduled for June 2014.
> 
> “This master lease structure will unite risk and reward in a single, highly qualified and experienced private sector operator, while relieving the MTA of ongoing capital and operating costs and expenses and generating revenue for our operating budgets,” said MTA Chairman and CEO Thomas F. Prendergast. “We are confident that Westfield will be motivated to maximize the revenues from the facility while maintaining in accordance with standards befitting the substantial investment the public has made in creating this wonderful new landmark.”
> 
> As master lessee, Westfield will be responsible for subletting the commercial space in the facility and selling space on its extensive network of digital advertising displays. With limited exceptions, it will also be responsible, at its own cost and risk, for cleaning, operating and maintaining the entire leased premises and making required repairs throughout the lease term. The MTA will participate in the revenues Westfield generates at the facility, in amounts that will depend on Westfield’s operating results.
> 
> MTA New York City Transit will still operate and maintain the Fulton Center’s various subway platforms, the A, E Mezzanine (except for the digital signage there), and a small number of rooms within the Fulton Building, Dey Street Headhouse and R Line Underpass that are to be used exclusively by NYC Transit for operational purposes. NYC Transit will also continue to maintain and operate its own signage, subway gates and turnstiles and MetroCard vending machines in the Master Lease premises, as well as the facility’s fire/life safety and public address equipment and security cameras.
> 
> The initial term of the Master Lease will begin when the Fulton Building’s public circulation areas open to the public, scheduled for June 2014, and end 20 years after the earlier of the second anniversary of such opening or the date on which at least 80% of the commercial space is occupied by Westfield’s subtenants. Westfield will have options to extend the term of the Master Lease for two successive periods of 10 years each.
> 
> The MTA selected Westfield pursuant to a competitive request for proposals process. Westfield has separately entered into a lease with the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey, pursuant to which Westfield will operate the retail space at the World Trade Center, scheduled to open in 2015.
> 
> “Westfield has great confidence in and commitment to downtown New York City as a world class destination,” said Greg Miles, U.S. Chief Operating Officer of Westfield. “We are pleased to be part of MTA’s new flagship Fulton Center, and look forward to introducing an exciting retail offer for commuters and visitors alike.”
> 
> “This agreement will empower Westfield to generate revenues for us that will go right back into the system while allowing MTA New York City Transit to focus its efforts on providing seamless service for the approximately 300,000 people who will pass through the Fulton Center every day, said MTA New York City Transit President Carmen Bianco. “It’s a win-win for all parties involved, most notably, our customers.”
> 
> “Bringing the Master Lessee on-board brings us that much closer to making the Fulton Center a reality, which will aid in the renaissance of Lower Manhattan. We look forward to opening what is sure to become New York City’s next landmark destination in June 2014,” said Michael Horodniceanu, President of MTA Capital Construction.
> 
> When completed next June, the $1.4 billion Fulton Center will fully integrate five subway stations serving nine different lines. The Fulton Center will also improve connectivity to the E and 1 lines once the construction at the WTC hub has been completed. Several of the Fulton Center’s customer benefits are already available to the riding public including new high-profile entrances at 135 William Street and the Dey Street Headhouse at the corner of Broadway and Dey Street. Upon its completion, the Fulton Center will have 19 elevators and 10 escalators and will be fully ADA compliant.
> 
> Fulton Center also includes the Sky-Reflector-Net, an integrated artwork, an artist, architect, engineer collaboration that culminated in a soaring light-filled atrium, which promises to be a destination for New Yorkers and visitors for years to come. MTA Arts for Transit commissioned James Carpenter Design Associates to collaborate with Grimshaw Architects and Arup, to provide a strong visual identity and create a welcoming space where sunlight helps to orient travelers and to assist them in finding their way through the complex.
> 
> Arts for Transit participated in the project to create an environment and an impact that is the best a city can provide its people, one that becomes part of New Yorkers’ memories. The main entry spaces were built anew and the art, architecture and engineering were able to progress together, fully integrated into the overall design.
> 
> For the Center’s main space, the designers created a metaphor for the celestial heaven and the powerful influence of its changing continuum of light on our sense of time: day is transformed into night, months into season, and seasons into years. The team refined both the architectural volume of the main space and developed an artwork contrasting qualities of light.
> 
> The geometry of the support structure and the faceted surface of perforated aluminum panels are lightweight, reflective and ever-changing. The result is a beautiful, animated surface that follows travelers as they move through the station. The configuration of the panels alters along with lighting conditions; their surfaces treated in such a way that even on a cloudy day the interior of the space feels luminous.


----------



## dimlys1994

deleted


----------



## dashyfreak

When the T line gets up and running after Phase 3 of the Second Avenue subway, will it be using the same tunnels as the Q line from 125th to 72nd?


----------



## dimlys1994

dashyfreak said:


> When the T line gets up and running after Phase 3 of the Second Avenue subway, will it be using the same tunnels as the Q line from 125th to 72nd?


Yes, exactly


----------



## dashyfreak

dimlys1994 said:


> Yes, exactly


Wouldn't that reduce the frequency of both lines in peak hours?


----------



## LouDagreat

HARTride 2012 said:


> Pretty neat! I'm looking forward to seeing Cortlandt St reopen! Has anyone heard about if anything will be done to reopen (newer) South Ferry? Last I heard, everything was still in limbo.


I read somewhere that the South Ferry station won't reopen until 2016. This station is gonna be closed longer than it's been open.

As for the Second Avenue subway. Were there ever plans to have Downtown and Uptown express lanes in the tunnels? It seems smart to plan ahead and have express lines in this route.


----------



## j-biz

*Bloomberg to take ‘first ride’ on 7 train extension*


> Mayor Michael Bloomberg will take a celebratory ride Friday on the 7 train subway extension, a project he championed.
> 
> Bloomberg pushed for the city to fund the more than $2 billion project, which extends the 7 line from Times Square to 34th Street and 11th Avenue.
> 
> The ceremonial ride will take place at noon, with Bloomberg joining other officials on a special five-car train.
> 
> The project was part of Bloomberg’s efforts to develop Manhattan’s West Side.
> 
> “They’ll run a train, if I have to push it myself,” Bloomberg reportedly said about the extension in February.
> 
> The extension is scheduled to be completed next summer.


Hopefully we'll get some station pictures!!


----------



## Arnorian




----------



## dimlys1994

Today:



> http://www1.nyc.gov/office-of-the-m...-take-first-ride-7-subway-train-extension/#/0
> 
> *Mayor Bloomberg, MTA Officials and Local Leaders Take First Ride on 7 Subway Train Extension*
> December 20, 2013
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Project is the First Subway Extension Funded by the City in More Than 60 Years
> 
> Connecting New Yorkers and Visitors to 34th Street and Eleventh Avenue, Extension Will Build on the Enormous Progress Occurring on Manhattan’s Far West Side
> 
> Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, MTA officials and other local leaders today took the first ride on the extension of the 7 Subway line, terminating at the new subway station located at 34th Street and Eleventh Avenue in Manhattan. The 7 Subway Extension is the first extension funded by the City in more than 60 years, and will provide New Yorkers and visitors with a link to Manhattan’s Far West Side, building on the area’s enormous progress in recent years. The last extension financed by the City opened in December of 1950, when the Queens Boulevard line was extended to Jamaica-179th Street. This new extension demonstrates the commitment by the Bloomberg Administration to invest in infrastructure projects that will ensure New York City continues to be a leading global city in the future. The $2.4 billion project is scheduled to be completed in the summer 2014.
> 
> “Today’s historic ride is yet another symbol of how New York City has become a place where big projects can get done,” said Mayor Bloomberg. “This project is the linchpin of an ambitious transit-oriented, mixed-use development that is already transforming Manhattan’s Far West Side, and it demonstrates our Administration’s commitment over the past 12 years to invest in infrastructure that will allow our city to grow for generations to come.”
> 
> “Today, the Far West Side is not so far away anymore. The subways are our bloodlines - they literally grow the city – which is why we made the extension of the 7 line into the once-desolate far west side the heart of the Group of 35 report in 2001,” said Senator Charles Schumer. “We knew that if we built it – they would come. And ‘they’ means jobs, jobs, jobs, and an expanded tax base for the city, and a gleaming new mixed-use neighborhood where once there was only emptiness and promise. With the completion of the 7 line extension, it’s full speed ahead for development and economic growth on the far side of Manhattan. A special and heartfelt congratulations to Mayor Bloomberg and Speaker Quinn for leading the rezoning effort and for completing the first City-paid for subway in many generations. It is a singular achievement that will pay untold dividends, and a grateful city thanks you for your vision and fortitude in making this vision a reality.”
> 
> “When we complete construction on this project next summer, the West Side will be connected to the rest of this vibrant city and will be just a train ride away,” said Dr. Michael Horodniceanu, President of MTA Capital Construction.
> 
> As part of the redevelopment of Hudson Yards, a 45-block area on Manhattan’s Far West Side, the City of New York and the MTA worked together to extend the 7 Subway line farther west from its current terminus at Times Square to the new subway station at 34th Street and Eleventh Avenue. Once completed, the 7 Subway will be the only line south of 59th Street to provide service west of Ninth Avenue, offering access to the Jacob Javits Convention Center and introducing subway service and fostering transit-oriented development to the emerging, mixed-use community in Midtown West. Service will also improve for customers using the 7 Subway line in Queens and Manhattan as a result of the new station and additional tail tracks that extend to 26th Street to allow for the storage of more trains.
> 
> Construction of the extension began in December 2007. For the first time in New York City, tunnel boring machines (TBMs) were used to mine the subway tunnels. Two Herrenknecht manufactured TBMs burrowed 9,285 feet from Eleventh Avenue and 26th Street to Times Square. Local 147 NYC Sandhogs offered the Mayor the opportunity to name the TBMs and he chose to name them after his daughters, Emma and Georgina. As the tunnel boring machines mined, they placed pre-cast concrete lining rings along the excavated tunnel, making up the permanent liner of the finished tunnel. Tunneling between 34th Street and Times Square presented unique challenges, as the subway will run under the existing Eighth Avenue Subway, Amtrak/NJ Transit tunnels, as well as tunnels to the former New York Central Line, the Lincoln Tunnel and the Port Authority Bus Terminal and ramps. To create the new station cavern below 34th Street and Eleventh Avenue, the contractor used controlled drill-and-blast. Work will continue into next year to complete full signal and power installation.
> 
> In January of 2005, the City Council overwhelmingly approved the Bloomberg Administration's plan for rezoning the Far West Side of Manhattan. The rezoning allows for more than 40 million square feet of mixed-used development, including 24 million square feet of Class A office development and 13,500 new apartments. The approval also resulted in the mapping of public parks and open space. The City created two local development corporations: the Hudson Yards Infrastructure Corporation to finance the costs of the 7 Subway Extension, new parks, and other needed infrastructure; and the Hudson Yards Development Corporation (HYDC), which oversees planning and development in the Hudson Yards on behalf of the City. Hudson Yards is defined as the area bounded by Seventh and Eighth Avenues (East), West 28th/30th Streets (South), West 43rd Street (North) and Hudson River Park (West).
> 
> “This is truly an historic day and I along with the staff of HYDC are thrilled to be celebrating the 7 extension along with Mayor Bloomberg,” said HYDC President Ann Weisbrod. “This day would not have been possible without the hard work and cooperation of so many people in the Mayor’s administration including City Planning, Office of Management and Budget, and the Law Department. And special thanks to all of the staff of the MTA who worked so closely with us to make this day possible.”
> 
> “The construction of the 7 Subway extension will redefine the future of Manhattan’s West Side,” said Alan Steel, CEO and President of the New York Convention Center Operating Corporation, which operates the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center. “As we complete our own state-of-the-art renovation, this new subway station, right outside our doors, will introduce new audiences to the Javits Center and provide easier access for more than two million visitors we host each year. I would like to commend Mayor Bloomberg, MTA Chairman Prendergast and their staffs for their visionary work in making today a reality.”
> 
> The new subway station at 34th Street and Eleventh Avenue will be ADA accessible, and will be the first station in the system to have two high-rise incline elevators that will provide access to riders between the upper mezzanine and lower mezzanine, which is 108 feet below street level. Four high-rise escalators will also be installed at the station.
> 
> MTA Capital Construction is managing the construction project and is being supported by a joint venture of Hill/HDR/Liro. In addition, Parsons Brinckerhoff provided design support with assistance from Dattner Architects. Work on the major structural elements was performed by a S3II, a joint venture of Shea, Schiavone, Skanska which included tunnel boring from 26th Street and Eleventh Avenue to 42nd Street and Eighth Avenue and mining of the station cavern. The three ventilation and facility buildings were constructed by CCA Halmar, a joint venture of Scalamandre/Oliveira, and Yonkers Construction. Remaining finishes are being completed by a joint venture of Skanska Railworks. A secondary station entrance will be located on Eleventh Avenue between 34th and 35th Streets, which is being constructed by John P. Picone, Inc.
> 
> A vibrant and colorful mosaic artwork will be installed at the 34th Street and Eleventh Avenue station entrances inside a recessed ceiling feature. The artwork is commissioned by MTA Arts for Transit and Urban Design.
> 
> The 7 Subway Extension is an important piece of the overall development taking place across the Far West Side of Manhattan and the City’s commitment to building on this progress. The Hudson Yards development, one of the largest private developments in U.S. history, is currently underway. Since 2005, developers have committed more than $11 billion to build 14 million square feet of office, hotel, and residential space in the area. To date, 6,000 units of housing have been built, including 1,600 units of affordable housing. 3,000 more apartments are expected to be built during the next five years. The first phase of the Hudson Park & Boulevard, which is two-and-a-half-acres, is also under construction.


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## Woonsocket54

*The new 34th Street/Hudson Yards subway station (7) <7>*


7 Line Extension Ceremonia Ride by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


7 Line Extension Ceremonia Ride by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


7 Line Extension Ceremonia Ride by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


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## dashyfreak

Video is here!


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## dimlys1994

Oh, it's wonderful. I didn't remember where in the video, but I saw the sign of future infill station. Perhaps if funding will be available in ten or twenty years time, we could see it


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## Fan Railer

dimlys1994 said:


> Oh, it's wonderful. I didn't remember where in the video, but I saw the sign of future infill station. Perhaps if funding will be available in ten or twenty years time, we could see it


Completely a possibility. However, we'll also have to see if the demand is there for a 10th avenue station.


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## Arnorian

Is this the first new station since 1989 (not counting replacing an old station with a new one on the same location)?


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## dimlys1994

Arnorian said:


> Is this the first new station since 1989 (not counting replacing an old station with a new one on the same location)?


Actually yes, since opening 63rd St - Lexington Ave - 21st St - Queensbridge


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## dimlys1994

Bloomberg at 34th St 11 Ave station:


7 Line Extension Ceremonia Ride by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


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## dimlys1994

These 7 Subway extension photos were taken by Benjamin Kabak and could be found on his Second Avenue Sagas blog. 34th St 11 Ave station lower hall:


The 7 Line Mezzanine by bkabak, on Flickr

Before Mayor's train arrival:


7 Line Extension 089 by bkabak, on Flickr


7 Line Extension 088 by bkabak, on Flickr


7 Line Extension 087 by bkabak, on Flickr


7 Line Extension 086 by bkabak, on Flickr


7 Line Extension 085 by bkabak, on Flickr


7 Line Extension 084 by bkabak, on Flickr


7 Line Extension 083 by bkabak, on Flickr

Close-up of station. It's very interesting to see inclined lifts. Could we see them on Grand Cetral's ESA platforms:


7 Line Extension 082 by bkabak, on Flickr

Under Port Authority Bus Terminal:


7 Line Extension 081 by bkabak, on Flickr


7 Line Extension 080 by bkabak, on Flick


7 Line Extension 078 by bkabak, on Flickr


7 Line Extension 072 by bkabak, on Flickr


7 Line Extension 071 by bkabak, on Flickr


7 Line Extension 069 by bkabak, on Flickr


7 Line Extension 065 by bkabak, on Flickr


7 Line Extension 064 by bkabak, on Flickr


7 Line Extension 063 by bkabak, on Flickr


7 Line Extension 062 by bkabak, on Flickr


7 Line Extension 061 by bkabak, on Flickr


7 Line Extension 058 by bkabak, on Flickr


7 Line Extension 057 by bkabak, on Flickr


7 Line Extension 056 by bkabak, on Flickr

The shaft:


7 Line Extension 055 by bkabak, on Flickr


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## Nikonov_Ivan

I can't get only one thing: Hudson Yards is going to be a new financial/cultural heart of NY, why couldn't they make a really beautiful, spacious and modern station?
For example, such as station in Canary Wharf(London):









Or in Business District in Moscow:


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## dimlys1994

Nikonov_Ivan said:


> I can't get only one thing: Hudson Yards is going to be a new financial/cultural heart of NY, why couldn't they make a really beautiful, spacious and modern station?


Not exactly. Hudson Yards project is mixed-use development and would be a catalyst for change for West Side only. As for station, what could you expect? 
Here are renders again:


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## Nikonov_Ivan

^^ Yes, i know. But anyway, HY is going to be a really giant an expensive project, like "city within a city", such as Canary Wharf in London for example, i think, they could make this station at least more expensive. Yes, it is going to be more beautiful and modern than the rest of the subway stations in NYC, but still, it looks rather cheap and small( on renders at least)...


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## MrAronymous

The thing that bothers me most is that the station/mezzanines/ticket halls actually have pretty high ceilings, which give an enormous feeling of space. But unlike the London Canary Wharf station they're putting in a lower ceiling, to hide all the utility pipes and such. I wonder if they could've done it in another way.


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## DaeguDuke

Perhaps put the cables/pipes together so there's a high ceiling everywhere except either wall. Seems silly these days to put false ceilings into a public building so it makes it claustrophobic


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## 1084790

..


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## SMCYB

Nikonov_Ivan said:


> I can't get only one thing: Hudson Yards is going to be a new financial/cultural heart of NY, why couldn't they make a really beautiful, spacious and modern station?


Manhattan schist


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## sweet-d

Kinda wish this newest had platform screen doors. I thought it was supposed to have the but maybe I was thinking about the second avenue subway.


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## Fan Railer

sweet-d said:


> Kinda wish this newest had platform screen doors. I thought it was supposed to have the but maybe I was thinking about the second avenue subway.


This will (or at least should, the last I checked) have PSDs. Don't forget you are looking at a station which is still 6 months away from opening to the public for service. There is no reason to install PSDs this early, as that would unnecesarily impede the flow of equipment for construction. PSDs will likely be one of the last components installed at this station.


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## MrAronymous

Fan Railer said:


> This will (or at least should, the last I checked) have PSDs. Don't forget you are looking at a station which is still 6 months away from opening to the public for service. There is no reason to install PSDs this early, as that would unnecesarily impede the flow of equipment for construction. PSDs will likely be one of the last components installed at this station.


Then why aren't they on the renders above?


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## 1084790

......


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## sk327

I've wanted to make these questions for a long time:

Is there a plan to modernise the subway system in New York in the future?

And also, how bad is the overcrowding there compared to London's? The stats show that way more people use NYC's subway than London's underground, so for people who've been to both, does this fact make it more crowded or people just travel at different times?


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## phoenixboi08

sk327 said:


> I've wanted to make these questions for a long time:
> 
> Is there a plan to modernise the subway system in New York in the future?


Depends on what you mean by "modern." What many fail to remember, is that the system went through a terrible bout of neglect in the late 60s and 70s when the city's finances weren't the greatest. Even when it left city control in the mid/late 60s - when the MTA was formed - it was still terribly underfunded.
They're only just now catching up on that 30+ years of neglect.

Now, if we're talking about better signaling equipment, more efficient station layouts, a better metro card, etc, then yes, I do think that's likely to happen in the near future. However, we shouldn't really hold our breath, hoping that the entire system will ever look like a newer system (like Shanghai), or even like much of the Tube system, considering how little the farebox even funds MTA's operations - well under 50% - and that it's still politically unreasonable to push for greater funding for mass transit. 

For the most part, passengers just want punctuality and clean cars. That, I think, can be achieved...

So...

I mean, I'm not meaning to be pessimistic, but one really needs to keep in mind what the agency is working with, financially.


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## bd popeye

> And also, how bad is the overcrowding there compared to London's? The stats show that way more people use NYC's subway than London's underground, so for people who've been to both, does this fact make it more crowded or people just travel at different times?


One reason the NYC subway may have more passengers than London's Tube is the fact that the NYC subway never shuts down..never. The NYC subway runs 24/7/365.

The NYC subway was shut down during the 1965 ,'77 & 2003 blackouts and for several days after 09.11.2001..Hurricane Sandy caused a partial shutdown..I may have missed something...

I've not ridden the subway for a couple of years but to me it does not seem to be over crowded. Others that use it daily may have a different opinion.


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## Nikonov_Ivan

^^ I think, that is why it is so dirty( because it runs 24 hours a day)...

P.s. My 2000 post!!!


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## Pierre50

Any pictures of NYC Subway, during this "Polar Vortex" ? How overground sections ahve been working during this period of freezing and snowy weather ?

You can compare the dirtynes of NYC Subway with Paris one. 
I know the result. Paris is now invaded by tags everywhere, where NYC has almost completely elimitated them at least inside and on trains.


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## bd popeye

Nikonov_Ivan said:


> ^^ I think, that is why it is so dirty( because it runs 24 hours a day)...
> 
> P.s. My 2000 post!!!


Trust me.. it's not as dirty as it was from about 1970 to the late '80s.. not even close. Particularly the rolling stock.


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## LastConformist

sk327 said:


> I've wanted to make these questions for a long time:
> 
> Is there a plan to modernise the subway system in New York in the future?


Depends what you mean. They're putting in some provisions for automation on the 7 train right now, mostly experimental to see if it can work on the more complicated parts of the system. (The 7 runs entirely on its line, no interlining with any other trains, so it's really a closed system from a driving perspective.) NYC's definitely behind a lot of other cities in train automation.

Cleaning and renovation is slow going, but the system is a lot better than it used to be and continues to make incremental improvements. And much of rolling stock these days consists of quite new cars.



> And also, how bad is the overcrowding there compared to London's? The stats show that way more people use NYC's subway than London's underground, so for people who've been to both, does this fact make it more crowded or people just travel at different times?


There are some very overcrowded lines (the 6, and the Lexington Avenue lines in general, come to mind). However, overcrowding is not nearly so bad as London as the trains in NYC have much higher capacities. Trains are much wider and longer. They're actually usually less frequent in NYC--I think some London lines have headways somewhat under 2 minutes at peak times, whereas for NYC I think the 6 and 7 get down to about 2.5 minutes but many lines are much less frequent--but that is more than compensated for by the much greater capacity of individual trains.

24/7 makes some difference, but not a huge amount. There aren't that many riders late at night except at a few particularly busy nightlife locations.


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## HARTride 2012

First off, Paris has no express services. All trains stop at every station. Paris is also rather behind on rolling stock. A vast majority of their stock is 1979 and older, whereas most of NYC's stock is mid-90s and newer.

Yes, NYC is further behind on automation, on the other hand. I think it will be some time before most of the NYC subway lines have ATO and PSDs. But no doubt that the 24/7/365 system will not decline anytime soon.

I think on the terms of vandalism, NYC does better on keeping stations and railcars free of grafitti. In Paris, their 1978 stock is constantly vandalized (their 1963 and 1968 stock aren't far behind), especially trains running on the more vulnerable 8 Line, where the eastern section is outdoor/at-grade. Scratchitti on the other hand, is becoming more and more problematic across many subway/metro systems. When you have a majority of railcars in NYC being stainless steel or aluminum, this can become a big problem if it isn't managed. So far, so good though.

Water intrusion and just overall dirty stations are a problem with many subways/metros. I think that NYC and Paris are at about the same level when it comes to this. My own observations of both systems show that even the well-maintained stations can get dirty quickly. I think one the worst of the stations in Paris is Porte de Vincennes, whereas one of the worst NYC stations is Chambers St BMT.

In terms of overcrowding, I would agree that the 6 Line in NYC is definitely overcrowded, and I think the 13 Line in Paris is not far behind. The problem with Paris' 13 Line is that the two northern branches cause a disparity in frequency, forcing commuters to have to wait longer for trains. There are also no immediate plans to increase the length of railcars because most of the stations are ill-equipped to handle trains longer than five cars. Unlike NYC, Paris was never able to undergo a system-wide station expansion that would have allowed for trains with seven to ten car trains. Only the 14 Line is capable of handling eight car trains.

For the record, here's a glimpse of a heavily vandalized 1978 stock train on the Paris 7 Line.


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## Pierre50

see next post


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## Pierre50

HARTride 2012 said:


> Paris is also rather behind on rolling stock. A vast majority of their stock is 1979 and older, whereas most of NYC's stock is mid-90s and newer.
> 
> To be fully accurate here is the age of Paris rolling stock for Metro lines.
> The two last digits represent the two last digit of the year of design. Delivery is generally 4 - 5 years later
> 
> M1 MP 05
> M2, M5, M9 MF 01
> M3, M3bis MF 67 refurbished late 90s
> M4 MP 89 CC cascaded from M1
> M6 MP 73
> M7, M8, M13 MF 77 M13 trains refurbished in late 90s
> M7bis MF 88
> M10, M12 MF 67
> M11 MP 59 cascaded from M4
> M14 MP 89 CA


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## HARTride 2012

^^

Yes, but in terms of age, the following exist

MP 59 - Designed in 1959, entered service in 1963. Some trains refurbished during the early/mid 90s.
MF 67 - Designed in 1967, entered service from 1968 through 1973. Some trains refurbished during the 90s. Fate unknown.
MP 73 - Designed in 1973, entered service in 1974. Refurbished during the early 2000s.
MF 77 - Designed in 1977, entered service in 1978. Some trains refurbished during the 2000s.
MF 88 - Designed in 1988, entered service in 1993. Fate unknown, may see early retirement.
MP 89CC - Designed in 1989, entered service in 1997. Fate unknown, may either see a shift to the 6 or 11 Lines in 2019, or early retirment.
MP 89CA - Designed in 1989, entered service in 1998.
MF 01 - Designed in 2000, entered service in 2006 (though mass production began in 2008).
MP 05 - Designed in 2005, entered service in 2012.

The MP 14, likely to begin going into service about 2019/2020, will replace the MP 59 and MP 73 railcars. Nothing official has been announced yet of the fate of the MF 67 railcars.


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## Mercenary

Manitopiaaa said:


> 1. Union Contracts
> 2. Environmental Studies
> 3. Property Issues
> 4. Government Approval
> 5. Everything is Expensive in New York City
> 6. New York City Has To Meet High Quality Standards


Then how was New York City able to build subways five times as fast a 100 years ago than today. And not only that, back then everything was done by hand and no automated machines.


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## webeagle12

Manitopiaaa said:


> 6. New York City Has To Meet High Quality Standards


So funny.. :lol:


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## DaeguDuke

Mercenary said:


> Then how was New York City able to build subways five times as fast a 100 years ago than today. And not only that, back then everything was done by hand and no automated machines.


Ah yes, damn machines slowing us down


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## phoenixboi08

Odd question, why exactly are they so intent on keeping the rolling stock the same?
Or, rather, why not opt for a different style in new rolling stock (something that looks a bit more "modern")? 










Not necessarily speaking of articulated train-sets in this instance, but more about the actual _design_. Is it solely a symbolic gesture (that it's easily identifiable)? That doesn't strike me as a strong reason, but I can't think of anything else.


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## Airman Kris™

phoenixboi08 said:


> Odd question, why exactly are they so intent on keeping the rolling stock the same?
> Or, rather, why not opt for a different style in new rolling stock (something that looks a bit more "modern")?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily speaking of articulated train-sets in this instance, but more about the actual _design_. Is it solely a symbolic gesture (that it's easily identifiable)? That doesn't strike me as a strong reason, but I can't think of anything else.


I would have to say that it is, yes, a symbolic gesture. The trains have remained the same for the past 50 years up until the R142 stock and then you could see a little difference in appearance. It is simple, it has worked, why change it in my opinion.

R142


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## Nikonov_Ivan

Well, I think, new trains look rather good. They are not perfect, but they look ok( especially from inside). 
BTW we can expect a new design from the trains which are going to arrive in 2015...


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## Falubaz

Airman Kris™ said:


> ... The trains have remained the same for the past 50 years up until the R142 stock and then you could see a little difference in appearance. It is simple, it has worked, why change it in my opinion.


As **** sapiens we used to live in caves for thousands of years.
It was simple, it has worked, why the heck did we change it? :bash:


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## webeagle12

The problem is because we are SO concern about trains safety and security, that we make all trains looks like 1960's crawled into NYC subway and died. We have no skills in creating something that looks good.


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## phoenixboi08

webeagle12 said:


> The problem is because we are SO concern about trains safety and security, that we make all trains looks like 1960's crawled into NYC subway and died. We have no skills in creating something that looks good.


Isn't the current rolling stock Alstom/Kawasaki?
It seems we always have to design something in odd manners, rather than taking a current "product." I was just wondering why. Visually, and if you've spoken to people who are visiting you know, the current design makes the subway look really out of date (even if many lines now are using new cars).


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## CNB30

Honestly, I think the subway authority (and New Yorkers) prefer the aesthetic of the old silver trains, rather than some sleek Simens train. Replacing the cars on the subway itself would be like replacing the cable cars of San Francisco with modern light rail cars.


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## Airman Kris™

Falubaz said:


> As **** sapiens we used to live in caves for thousands of years.
> It was simple, it has worked, why the heck did we change it? :bash:


I did not realize the APPEARANCE of a perfectly capable train would be beneficial to service if it was changed. Now if the trains performed at a low level, then of course. Strictly speaking of the appearance here mate.


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## Arnorian

Contemporary train design would contrast too much with barely functional state of many stations.


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## phoenixboi08

Arnorian said:


> Contemporary train design would contrast too much with barely functional state of many stations.


That's like saying one shouldn't lose weight because he'd no longer fit in his clothes...


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## Arnorian

No, wearing very expensive shoes with a cheap suit is a more appropriate analogy.


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## Airman Kris™

webeagle12 said:


> The problem is because we are SO concern about trains safety and security, that we make all trains looks like 1960's crawled into NYC subway and died. We have no skills in creating something that looks good.


I'm not so sure, if the MTA thought the current stock was unsafe taking into the fact of the sheer amount of people who ride the system daily, they would certainly invest in a whole new train system. Who knows though, the design may have no improvement if this was the case.


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## Scizoid.Trans.Prog.

NYC Subway trains are epic, simple but epic. More epic were the Redbirds, too bad they're gone.


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## 1084790

....


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## phoenixboi08

Arnorian said:


> No, wearing very expensive shoes with a cheap suit is a more appropriate analogy.


I never said they should choose more "expensive" looking cars or that the current ones looks "cheap". 

You're assuming a different (arguably, more attractive) design would be more expensive. If anything, it'd likely save them the costs of having to have specially designed rolling stock.


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## Alargule

Subsequence said:


> Second subway won't open until July 2017 or 2018. (another disaster)


Planned opening date of the first phase of the SAS is December 2016. Unless you have a reliable source that states otherwise, that's the date I'll go by.

About the rolling stock: the current trains have always struck me as a perfect fit for the subway: tough, shiny and quite timeless. Of course, they could always opt for an off-the-shelf train, like Alstom's Metropolis.


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## 1084790

....


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## Alargule

That's an FTA estimate. However, it's the *M*TA that's building the SAS. Of course, with the MTA it's never guaranteed that said deadlines will be made, but let's be optimistic for once and hope December 2016 will indeed be the first time we'll be able to ride the first small leg of the SAS.


----------



## Mercenary

Damn if Phase I wont open until 2018, then when will the entire be completed?

At this rate, it wont be complete till 2050.


----------



## Airman Kris™

Mercenary said:


> Damn if Phase I wont open until 2018, then when will the entire be completed?
> 
> At this rate, it wont be complete till 2050.


The other phases may not be so time consuming and depending on how the economy is during the completion of Phase I and the turn of the decade, that could expedite the process. I see 2025 as a reasonable completion date.


----------



## 1084790

...


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## Airman Kris™

Subsequence said:


> Did you even bother to read his question?
> 
> In response to Mercenary, it could be much much longer than that. Say 2070 or even worse... not in anyones lifetime. Michael Horodniceanu said in a interview in late 2011 that phase 2,3, and 4 would be for "our children and grandchildren."


Just for the record..2025 was my estimate for _Phase I_. Just to be clear.


----------



## Alargule

Wow Subsequence, who beat you with the pessimism stick?


----------



## Airman Kris™

Alargule said:


> Wow Subsequence, who beat you with the pessimism stick?



de Blasio .


----------



## Alargule

Ah, he got Billed


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## 1084790

...


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## 1084790

..


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## Airman Kris™

Subsequence said:


> Regarding Bill De Blasio,
> 
> He is a touchy subject when it comes to public transportation. Him, being a driver, did not discuss work about future phases of the subway. Instead he supported the idea of money devoted to more bus rapid transit and free East River bridges, and refused to discuss about the second subway. He appointees aren't pro-transit either.
> 
> Lastly, the governor is a driver himself. Will he allocate funds for another phase or will he slash funds (from the MTA) as he has been doing for the past 3 years? Will he also win this years election?


Cuomo has his eyes on 2016, doubt he will run again. In the long run de Blasio will have to give in, the subway is too valuable and the statistics show it is used far more than the any bus system would be.


----------



## Silly_Walks

Subsequence said:


> Him, being a driver, did not discuss work about future phases of the subway.


Drivers should be the main proponents of subway expansion, as subways take buses and cars off the road, leaving more space for drivers.


----------



## LastConformist

Airman Kris™;111940834 said:


> Cuomo has his eyes on 2016, doubt he will run again. In the long run de Blasio will have to give in, the subway is too valuable and the statistics show it is used far more than the any bus system would be.


You're not from the NY area. That's not how it works at all. The state legislature is constantly gutting funding for public transit and needs aggressive attention from the city to make sure funding stays in place for current service, let alone expanding it. De Blasio's at best tepid support for transit certainly won't result in any further expansions; he won't even be willing to take maintaining the current state of funding to Albany.

How important the subway doesn't factor into any politicians' considerations. They know the MTA will get blamed for the politicians' shortcomings.


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## Ladiesman020

Will they ever connect Staten Island subway to brooklyn or Manhattan, via underground tunnels


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## CNB30

probably not, considering how expensive it would be ^^


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## Woonsocket54

Yes, the Second Avenue subway phases 2 through 4 are many years in the future - the Warren Wilhelm, Jr. Second Avenue Memorial Subway may be the name when it is all complete.


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## DaeguDuke

Silly_Walks said:


> Drivers should be the main proponents of subway expansion, as subways take buses and cars off the road, leaving more space for drivers.


Unless NY slipped into a parallel universe this is not the case - car users in general favour cars>train>tram>bus>bike>walking. Especially as NYC had a 24/7 subway. The biggest modal shift when a subway opens is drivers switching to cheaper, more convenient public transport. Perhaps the above is slightly less distinct in the US than the UK as we have a strong culture for riding the subway/buses (and a stronger culture against drink driving) but a new subway line should not be aimed at removing buses at all..


----------



## diablo234

LastConformist said:


> You're not from the NY area. That's not how it works at all. The state legislature is constantly gutting funding for public transit and needs aggressive attention from the city to make sure funding stays in place for current service, let alone expanding it. De Blasio's at best tepid support for transit certainly won't result in any further expansions; he won't even be willing to take maintaining the current state of funding to Albany.
> 
> How important the subway doesn't factor into any politicians' considerations. They know the MTA will get blamed for the politicians' shortcomings.


Considering that the vast majority of NYC residents and commuters utilize the subway, I don't see how politicians can put off expanding the capacity of the existing system without a lot of backlash. 

How much do you want to bet De Blasio won't get a second term?


----------



## LastConformist

diablo234 said:


> Considering that the vast majority of NYC residents and commuters utilize the subway, I don't see how politicians can put off expanding the capacity of the existing system without a lot of backlash.


Unfortunately, that's not even remotely close to how it works. The public wants an expanded system in theory but doesn't want to pay for it, opposes disruptions from construction and resists even reasonable transit projects that might cause some minor inconvenience in their lives. More importantly, the public is just too completely zoned out and clueless on transit issues to even understand politicians' positions. Certainly virtually no one knows that de Blasio said that as mayor he would consider removing the Midtown pedestrian plazas because "they disrupt car traffic" (paraphrasing) -- and that was said _during the primary campaign_.

Before the 7 line expansion and SAS, the last new stations to open that were not replacements for other stations opened in the 1980s (Lexington Ave-63rd St, Roosevelt Island and 21st St-Queensbridge), and before that, the 1930s.

All the politicians who actively worked to kill the N to LaGuardia plan in the 1990s were re-elected, and many of them went on to higher office. The free-metrocards-for-schoolkids program, which was originally to be funded in equal parts by the city, the state and the MTA (though why the MTA and not school officials were paying for kids to go to school, I'll never understand) was de-funded by the state in 2009, and the city has refused to increase its contribution from 1/3 of the cost in the first year even as more students enrolled, so the MTA now bears over 70% of the costs of what is effectively providing school buses. Again, no consequences for the politicians. There are hordes of politicians lining up behind the beyond-moronic idea of the Queensway, which is currently getting tens of millions of dollars from the state to study why what works for Chelsea won't work for Ozone Park, though at least admirably a handful of politicians have spoken in favor of rail re-activation--not that they would ever budget money for such a thing, of course.

I could go on. Do not expect the public to ever hold politicians accountable for their terrible transit records. Quite the reverse, actually. Complaining about construction, about costs, about the dangers of bike lanes to motorists, etc. continues to be a route to re-election and higher office, even in the city itself.



> How much do you want to bet De Blasio won't get a second term?


I won't call myself a big fan of de Blasio (though generally sympathetic to Democrats, at least nationally--locally the Democratic Party has a lot of problems), but at this point I think it is quite likely that he will be re-elected. Defeating him, either in a primary or a general election, would require the sort of extreme backlash that only a truly disastrous first term could generate, and we're not anywhere close to disaster at the moment. That _could_ change, but I don't really expect it to. In fact, I think in 2017, de Blasio will face his main opposition from the left, among people who think he betrayed them by not simultaneously stopping all new construction in the city and lowering their rent. It was never going to be possible for him to live up to the desires of the people who nominated him, and he will be the "right-wing establishment" candidate against some moonbat in 2017.


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## Airman Kris™

LastConformist said:


> You're not from the NY area. That's not how it works at all. The state legislature is constantly gutting funding for public transit and needs aggressive attention from the city to make sure funding stays in place for current service, let alone expanding it. De Blasio's at best tepid support for transit certainly won't result in any further expansions; he won't even be willing to take maintaining the current state of funding to Albany.
> 
> How important the subway doesn't factor into any politicians' considerations. They know the MTA will get blamed for the politicians' shortcomings.


I do have family in the City though....I hear the concerns every week. I still disagree with you though, if the residents demand it and MTA questions it, Bill will have his day. It is called "re-election".


----------



## Svartmetall

Woonsocket54 said:


> My concern was more you stating "Toronto manages to garner 10,700 people riding the network *per km of track*" which I am not sure is consistent with micro's methodology (micro website says "network length" which isn't the same as "track length"), apart from the separate question of whether micro's methodology is useful for comparison purposes.


Ah okay, so it was just a semantic thing. Sorry I used the wrong term.


----------



## saiho

Innsertnamehere said:


> http://www.ttc.ca/PDF/Transit_Planning/Subway_ridership_2012-2013.pdf
> 
> There are the ridership stats for Toronto if you want to take a look. total ridership numbers are a bit high because transfer stations are double counted. (they count a person each time they use a platform, so transfer stations count people making a transfer) you can exclude those stations, (St. George, Bloor-Yonge, Kennedy, and Sheppard-Yonge) and there are still 2 stations hovering around the 100,000 mark and quite a few over 50,000.
> 
> 13 of Toronto's 69 stops are below 10,000.
> 
> Toronto's ridership figures also include a JFK airtrian tech line used as a metro, which is drastically lower capacity and not really a subway, and contains 3 of the 4 emptiest stations on the system. If you don't count it just 9 stations are under 10k.
> 
> Toronto's system is also only 68.3km long. (For now, it'll be closer to 90km by the end of the decade)


Toronto relies heavily on people transferring from buses and streetcars to get to the subway stations. As demonstrated by massive fair paid bus/streetcar terminals around a lot of their key stations. Compare that with New York where most stations just have a stop in front of one of their entrances with a handful of buses serving them. I have been to New York 4 times and have never needed to take a bus to get to and from the subway. There is usually a station within a 15 min walk from where I needed to go.


----------



## trainrover

This is an Eastern Canada practice. It dawned on me only a few days ago







how having rapid transit serve as feeders/collectors instead of being 'intra-district' has been the status quo.

Toronto's ginormous bus dépôts at, e.g, Eglinton, Warden stations, is one of Toronto's few marvels .. it's odd that nobody seems to have attempted sharing views of those exchanges in the 'Your City's Bus Stops' thread hno:


----------



## dimlys1994

From Second Avenue Sagas:



> http://secondavenuesagas.com/2014/04/28/board-docs-south-ferry-reopening-still-targeting-mid-2016/
> 
> *Board docs: South Ferry reopening still targeting mid-2016*
> April 28, 2014, by Benjamin Kabak
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The new South Ferry is scheduled to reopen in August of 2016 after a near-total rebuild, photo by Benjamin Kabak_
> 
> It’s been a little more than four months since we last heard a full update on the status of the new South Ferry station. During an MTA Board committee presentation at the end of 2013, John O’Grady presented some options for an elevated and protected signal room and explained how the new station would likely open by mid-2016. In another update set to be delivered to the Capital Program Oversight Committee on Monday, Transit has provided more details on the work and underscored the 2016 date. The new station will reopen nearly four years after Sandy.
> 
> The timing on the station comes from an independent review of the status of the job. According to the presentation, Transit will award a five-month demolition contract this month and a 24-month General Construction project in August. The rebuild — which is still on budget — would then wrap around August of 2016, as the MTA said four months ago. There is, of course, plenty of time for this project to fall behind schedule, but with nearly $600 million of federal funding supporting it, the pressure to deliver on time will be strong.
> 
> Meanwhile, this week’s presentation lists out the major scope items for the general rebuild. At the top of the list is grouting and leak mitigation, two problems that plagued the new station before it had even opened. Since the MTA has to essentially strip all of the finishes out of the destroyed station, crews have a second chance to get waterproofing right.
> 
> The other items on the list are fairly standard for any new station build out but with some twists for resiliency. The plans include modifications to critical structures (including the signal room), replacement of all communications and fiber optics systems; new signals, relays and third rail; and various other flood mitigation work including resilient stainless steel and glass entrances.
> 
> What I find most telling about this project, outside of the price tag, is the timing. It will have taken nearly the same amount of time to build the station originally as it will to completely reconstruct it after Sandy. In one sense, I’m being admittedly hyperbolic it’s taken nearly a year and a half to spec the work and issue contracts. But on the other hand, that’s an “inside baseball” distinction. Outwardly, to the general public, the new South Ferry station is a memory, and it will be for some time still.


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
I'm not holding my breath for mid-2016. I would guess at early 2017 if at best...knowing how the MTA does things.


----------



## dimlys1994

Renovation works in Montague Tunnel:

Montague Tube Work: April 29, 2014 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

Montague Tube Work: April 29, 2014 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

Montague Tube Work: April 29, 2014 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

Montague Tube Work: April 29, 2014 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

Montague Tube Work: April 29, 2014 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

Montague Tube Work: April 29, 2014 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

Montague Tube Work: April 29, 2014 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

Montague Tube Work: April 29, 2014 by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


----------



## Geo_Lee_2001

New York subway looks like a dump. Tell the MTA to learn something from SEPTA.


----------



## Alargule

SEPTIC :troll:


----------



## Woonsocket54

There was a derailment on the F train on the express tracks in Queens, between Northern Blvd and 65th Street stations (the F stops at neither of those stations) in the Woodside district. Passengers are emerging from the sidewalk emergency exit in front of a brick six-story apartment building at 60th St and Broadway.


----------



## CNB30

Alargule said:


> SEPTIC :troll:


----------



## Arnorian

*A Subterranean Stroll Through NYC's Newest Train Tunnel*



















93620127

more http://gizmodo.com/a-subterranean-stroll-through-nycs-newest-train-tunnel-1570826409


----------



## CNB30

2016 my


----------



## capt-subway

For those of you who don't live in Queens, NY, and thus missed all the fun, beginning this past Fri morning - southbound F train derailed on the express track adjacent to 65th St station:

 

http://secondavenuesagas.com/2014/05/02/manhattan-bound-f-train-derails-in-queens/


----------



## Arnorian

What are the chances of fixing it by tomorrow morning? If not I presume Queens is in a shitstorm without the F and the E .


----------



## capt-subway

Arnorian said:


> What are the chances of fixing it by tomorrow morning? If not I Queens is in a shitstorm without the F and the E .


Friday was a disaster for anyone trying to get to/from Queens. 

The E & F are presently running, all local in both directions, in Queens. No R service (cut back to 57/7). It is alleged normal service will resume on Mon AM, 5 May.


----------



## Woonsocket54

M60 Select Bus Service will launch on 05.25.2014. This will be the first BRT route that goes into Queens. This project includes dedicated bus lanes along some blocks of 125th St in Harlem along with off-board fare payment. 

M60 SBS will connect to numerous subway lines and Metro-North along 125th St in Harlem, along with the "1" train at 116th St/Broadway and the "N"/"Q" trains in Astoria.

More info here:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/mancb9/down...ts/125th_St_Implementation_Outreach_Flyer.pdf


----------



## dimlys1994

Official from MTA:



> http://www.mta.info/news-line-subwa...2014/05/08/queens-bound-88-st-and-104-st-line
> 
> *Queens-bound 88 St and 104 St A Line Stations To Close for Three Months for Renewal*
> May 08th, 2014
> 
> A line customers in Queens are about to see lots of station improvements. New York City Transit is about to begin a major $39 million capital project at five stations along the A on Liberty Avenue in Ozone Park. The project calls for station renewals at 80 St-Hudson Street, 88 St-Boyd Avenue, Rockaway Boulevard, 104 St-Oxford Avenue and 111 St-Greenwood Avenue. For these stations, originally opened in the early 1900’s, these improvements include the installation of new lighting, better platforms, enhanced safety features, and upgraded communications, and will create significantly better conditions for customers.
> 
> Improvements at these five stations will also feature repair or replacement of mezzanine to platform stairs, mezzanine floors, doors and windows, and interior and exterior walls. Each station will be painted and canopies, windscreen panels and railings will also be replaced. Customers will also benefit from new lighting in the mezzanines, and new artwork. The construction contracts were awarded in December 2013 as a joint venture to Forte Construction Corp and Emis Construction Group.
> 
> In order to carry out work on this project in a safe and efficient fashion, we will temporarily close the Queens-bound platforms of the 88th St-Boyd Avenue and 104 St-Oxford Avenue Stations from May 12, 2014 to August 18, 2014. Normal A service will be provided travelling towards Manhattan.
> 
> Queens-bound customers travelling to 88th St-Boyd Avenue must ride to the Rockaway Blvd Station and transfer to a Manhattan-bound A train. Customers wishing to ride towards Ozone Park Lefferts Blvd or the Rockaways from 88 St-Boyd Avenue must ride a Manhattan-bound A train to 80 St-Hudson Street and transfer to a Queens-bound A train. Normal service will be provided travelling towards Manhattan.
> 
> Queens-bound riders travelling to 104 St-Oxford Avenue must ride to the 111 St-Greenwood Avenue Station and transfer to a Manhattan-bound Atrain. Riders wishing to travel towards Ozone Park-Lefferts Blvd from 104 St-Oxford Avenue must ride a Manhattan-bound A train to Rockaway Blvd and transfer to an Ozone Park-Lefferts Boulevard-bound A train.
> 
> Following the completion of this phase of the project, work will move over to the Manhattan-bound platforms at these two stations, tentatively scheduled to begin in September 2014.
> 
> We appreciate the community’s patience and understanding while we carry out this important work. Service notices will be posted in all stations along the Liberty Avenue line prior to the commencement of work and announcements will be made on trains. Brochures are also available at station booths.


----------



## dimlys1994

Plus from MTA's Flickr page - a new lift installed on Forest Hill - 71st Ave station (for E, F, M, R services):

Forest Hills-71st Av. ADA Elevators by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

Forest Hills-71st Av. ADA Elevators by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

Forest Hills-71st Av. ADA Elevators by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

And Middletown Road and Castle Hill Ave stations (both for 6 service) reopened after refubrishing works. Middletown Road station is not shown, but ribbon cutting was for both stations:

Castle Hill Av. Ribbon Cutting by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

Castle Hill Av. Ribbon Cutting by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

Castle Hill Av. Ribbon Cutting by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

Courtesy of Eric 

R-62A Subway Cars #2446/2447 - West Side IRT at 125 St by transbay, on Flickr

R-62A Subway Cars #1671-1674 - IRT Flushing Line by transbay, on Flickr

R-62A Subway Cars #2293-2295 - West Side IRT at Dyckman St by transbay, on Flickr

West Side IRT in Upper Manhattan by transbay, on Flickr

West Side IRT in Upper Manhattan by transbay, on Flickr

West Side IRT in Upper Manhattan by transbay, on Flickr

R-62A Subway Cars #1659/1660/2021 - IRT Flushing Line at QBP by transbay, on Flickr

Queensboro Plaza (R-62A Subway Car #1740) by transbay, on Flickr

Elevated track at Marcy Avenue by transbay, on Flickr

M train coming off the Williamsburg Bridge by transbay, on Flickr


----------



## dimlys1994

Official from MTA:



> http://www.mta.info/news-massimo-vi...membering-massimo-vignelli-acclaimed-designer
> 
> *Remembering Massimo Vignelli, Acclaimed Designer of Controversial 1972 Subway Map*
> May 28th, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _1972 Massimo Vignelli subway map_
> 
> Massimo Vignelli, the influential graphic designer who reimagined the MTA New York City Transit subway system as a neat grid of colored lines surrounded by a beige ocean, died Tuesday in Manhattan at the age of 83.
> 
> Vignelli’s portfolio included brand and corporate identities for some of America’s most visible companies and organizations, including American Airlines, J.C. Penney and the National Park Service. But for New Yorkers and visitors who ride the subways, he is best known for his 1972 Modernist interpretation of New York and its underground transit system.
> 
> In August 1972, the MTA unveiled a drastically different subway map designed by Vignelli. It showed the transit system as a series of straight lines that sometimes veered at 45 degree angles, rather than a more realistic tangle of curved paths. Most other metro systems in the world use a diagrammatic, not a geographical approach - most notably Harry Beck's 1933 London Underground map. New York, with its system of local and express trains, presents complications in mapping that no other transit system faces. Vignelli's diagram, along with the MTA's neighborhood maps that came along later, are intended to work together to guide customers through the system, then to their street destination. Unlike Beck, who omitted aboveground landmarks and names of neighborhoods from his map of the Tube system, Vignelli included Central Park and the names of the city’s five boroughs. He later argued against that decision by saying the map should focus on the subway system and not include distractions like geographic references.
> 
> The MTA replaced the Vignelli map with Mike Hertz’s geographic approach in 1979 after customers complained about Vignelli’s “geographic inaccuracies” -- Central Park, for example, was a square rather than its actual rectangular shape – and others found it aesthetically confusing to make the water around New York beige rather than blue.
> 
> Design fans, however, celebrated the map and made it a coveted souvenir of trips to New York. It later became part of the postwar design collection at the Museum of Modern Art.
> 
> In recent years, Vignelli worked with colleagues Beatriz Cifuentes and Yoshi Waterhouse to update the diagram. When the MTA sought a subway diagram for the Weekender website and phone app, Vignelli's improved diagram fit the need. The Weekender’s subway-only diagram is free of most geographic references – just as Vignelli had wished for his 1972 design.


----------



## Alargule

Arnorian said:


> If the 60th Street tunnel is a bottleneck because it's used by three services, why is the R train not transfered to the 63rd Street tunnel? It's used by the F train only.


Probably because of the conflict the R would have with the Q at 57 St station: the R would have to switch to the express tracks - already used by the Q - south of the station.

The problem could be solved if - instead of the R - the Q would be sent along the 63 St tunnel to connect to the Queens Boulevard local tracks. The R would then run parallel to the N to Astoria. But I don't know whether the R and Q have comparable headways.


----------



## Arnorian

When they reintroduce the W train, to replace the Q train in Queens when it gets diverted to SAS, maybe they'll rethink all the yellow train services.


----------



## Donegal

Nice performance


----------



## Nexis

*IRT Flushing Line at Court SQuare​*


Flushing Bound Local Train at Court Square by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Flushing Bound Local Train at Court Square by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Flushing Bound Local Train at Court Square by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IRT Flushing Line at Court SQ Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IRT Flushing Line at Court SQ Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


This is a Main Street - Flushing Bound 7 Local train , the Next Stop is Queensboro Plaza by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## j-biz

Nexis said:


> IRT Flushing Line at Court SQ Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


No G train


----------



## Nexis

*Fulton Center​*

Fulton Center building by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Fulton Center Subway Signage by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Fulton Center Subway Signage by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## Geography

> There are a variety of issues on this point, and I admit to not being intimately familiar. The main issues stem from excessively generous overtime pay and resistance by the unions to automation of trains and improvements in station automation because they would result in fewer jobs for conductors and agents (and also general resistance to elimination of positions through streamlining--there's a lot of chaff in the employment structure due to unneeded positions still filled because the MTA can't really conduct layoffs).
> 
> Labor rules around capital projects also cause budget problems (really a more general problem in the construction sector).


Thanks. How much awareness of this issue is there among NYC residents? Do politicians ever raise this issue in debate?


----------



## Nexis

St. George SIRR derailment


Staten Island Railway Derailment by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Staten Island Railway Derailment by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


----------



## MrAronymous

Nexis said:


> IRT Flushing Line at Court SQ Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Elev to mezz

Great signage :| So non-English speaker friendly.


----------



## Falubaz

^^That was my first thought too.


----------



## Alargule

Wait. There are people actually living outside of NYC?


----------



## Nexis

MrAronymous said:


> Elev to mezz
> 
> Great signage :| So non-English speaker friendly.


This is a non ethic neighborhood so the signs are in english. Some announcements depending on the line are in different localized languages...


----------



## MrAronymous

Oh great. So ethnics only travel within ethnic neighborhoods then?

It's a poor excuse. Multilingual announcements are worthless if you can't even get the basic signage right. New York City had about 54 million tourists in 2013 and is the most cultural diverse city in the world and there is simply no excuse good enough for the horrible signage in the subway system. That the map is confusing to outsiders, ok. That the service (express trains, rush hour, etc.) is difficult to understand for outsiders, ok. But the signage? Inexcusable.


----------



## Sunfuns

Nexis said:


> This is a non ethic neighborhood so the signs are in english. Some announcements depending on the line are in different localized languages...


It's not that it should be in another language (which one anyway?), but making it less cryptic would have been nice.


----------



## Nexis

Sunfuns said:


> It's not that it should be in another language (which one anyway?), but making it less cryptic would have been nice.


Oh , so more pictures and less words.... Other systems do that...


----------



## Alargule

"Elevator to mezzanine" would have done the trick already. No need for fancy symbols and shit.


----------



## Nexis

33rd Street Station


IRT Lexington Avenue Line at 33rd Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IRT Lexington Avenue Line at 33rd Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## ryaboisse

Nexis said:


> 33rd Street Station
> 
> 
> IRT Lexington Avenue Line at 33rd Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr
> 
> 
> IRT Lexington Avenue Line at 33rd Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


You mean Toidy-Toid street. J/K


----------



## j-biz

MrAronymous said:


> So non-English speaker friendly.


Fortunately everybody in Queens speaks English.

:nuts:


----------



## LeCom




----------



## krnboy1009

A rare sighting these days. Usually Shuttle trains, B F (maybe), J, Z and R use those trains most of the times, but are being retired I presume. You never see that for any other lines, generally.


----------



## Fan Railer

A Shave and a Haircut? On the Subway? Hell Yea XD


----------



## j-biz

New 7 Station at 10th ave is looking pretty spiffy. Curbed took a tour of the environs.

All photos by Max Touhey.


----------



## Arnorian

Doesn't the 7 extension go down the 11th Avenue?


----------



## j-biz

^^ Ah yea, I guess technically it does. The station pictured is mid-block between 10th and 11th.


----------



## herenthere

Nexis said:


> Oh , so more pictures and less words.... Other systems do that...





Sunfuns said:


> It's not that it should be in another language (which one anyway?), but making it less cryptic would have been nice.





Alargule said:


> "Elevator to mezzanine" would have done the trick already. No need for fancy symbols and shit.


Actually, an elevator symbol would basically accomplish getting the message across, eliminating the language barrier, that you can take an elevator. It also saves space on the sign for other words...


----------



## Jim856796

What was the first stretch of the New York City Subway when it first opened in 1904?


----------



## CNB30

Jim856796 said:


> What was the first stretch of the New York City Subway when it first opened in 1904?


The Original Subway line (NYC had el trains dating back to the 1870s, but many were demolished in the 1930 and 40s) was built by the Interboro Rapid Transit Company


----------



## dimlys1994

Promo for Fulton Center:


----------



## Alargule

A 'gift'. Well, that's quite an understatent for a 1.4 billion dollar, seven years late transit project :lol:


----------



## Gre4ko

Hi!
May be someone know what happend in cases of vandalism in metro, I mean, is there some stickers, which using after act of vandalism, but before problem is fixed? (for example "sorry, we know about the problem and working")

PS sorry if my english is bad)


----------



## Innsertnamehere

Generally trains are taken out of service on the event of serious vandalism, or at least that is what happens in Toronto.


----------



## Gre4ko

Innsertnamehere said:


> Generally trains are taken out of service on the event of serious vandalism, or at least that is what happens in Toronto.


And what about stations?


----------



## CNB30

well I imagined stations are cleaned off, or repaired ^^


----------



## dimlys1994

SAS September update, 96th St station:


Second Avenue Subway: 96th Street by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway: 96th Street by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway: 96th Street by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway: 96th Street by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway: 96th Street by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway: 96th Street by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway: 96th Street by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway: 96th Street by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


----------



## WillBuild

*Subway Tunnel to Open, Storm Repairs Finished*

"Subway service through a storm-damaged tunnel between Brooklyn and
Manhattan is set to *resume in time for the commute on Monday morning*,
according to the Metropolitan Transportation Authority’s website. The N and R
trains will start running through the Montague Tunnel, which has been closed
since last summer to repair damage caused when Hurricane Sandy struck in
late 2012."

New York Times.

"Workers installed 11,000 feet of new track, three new pumps each
capable of removing 1,900 gallons of water per minute, and
submarine-style waterproof doors to protect equipment against
future flooding. [..] The project cost $250 million — well under the
$308 million initially budgeted, officials said."

New York Daily News. The article has more details.


----------



## Mercenary

How is it that they were able to subways really quickly 100 years ago while it is gonna take decades to build the SAS?


----------



## Woonsocket54

WillBuild said:


> "Subway service through a storm-damaged tunnel between Brooklyn and
> Manhattan is set to *resume in time for the commute on Monday morning*,
> according to the Metropolitan Transportation Authority’s website. The N and R
> trains will start running through the Montague Tunnel, which has been closed
> since last summer to repair damage caused when Hurricane Sandy struck in
> late 2012."
> 
> New York Times.
> 
> "Workers installed 11,000 feet of new track, three new pumps each
> capable of removing 1,900 gallons of water per minute, and
> submarine-style waterproof doors to protect equipment against
> future flooding. [..] The project cost $250 million — well under the
> $308 million initially budgeted, officials said."
> 
> New York Daily News. The article has more details.


Montague Tube Fix&Fortify Repair Work by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

Montague Tube Fix&Fortify Repair Work by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

more photos here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/sets/72157647391035025 and here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/governorandrewcuomo/sets/72157647194413960


----------



## Professor L Gee

Mercenary said:


> How is it that they were able to subways really quickly 100 years ago while it is gonna take decades to build the SAS?


Less expense, less bureaucracy, less environmental concern, less NIMBYism. To name a few.


----------



## Arnorian

Never understood all the fuss about environmental protection in Manhattan. Is the digging going to upset the delicate ecological balance of concrete, bricks, and asphalt? Maybe damage the roots of ghetto palms?


----------



## Arnorian

dimlys1994 said:


> IMG_2356 by bkabak, on Flickr


That on the left is Danny from Discovery's Extreme Engineering. Maybe they're making a show about the construction of the Fulton Center.


----------



## Alargule

...or just a look-a-like? It would be great, though, to see the Fulton Street Transit Center showcased in an Extreme Engineering episode.


----------



## Nexis




----------



## Arnorian

Alargule said:


> ...or just a look-a-like? It would be great, though, to see the Fulton Street Transit Center showcased in an Extreme Engineering episode.


It's him. He posted a picture with this comment on Instagram:



> I got to host the ribbon cutting of the Fulton Center Transit Hub today. Super beautiful building. By 5:00am tomorrow it'll become a permanent new addition to NYC transportation infrastructure.


http://instagram.com/p/vMcwfapoJW/


----------



## Nexis

Some Photos I took today

IRT Broadway-Seventh Avenue Line at 28th Street Station


IRT Broadway-Seventh Avenue Line at 28th Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IRT Broadway-Seventh Avenue Line at 28th Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

IRT Broadway-Seventh Avenue Line at South Ferry Station


IRT Broadway-Seventh Avenue Line at South Ferry Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IRT Broadway-Seventh Avenue Line at South Ferry Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IRT Broadway-Seventh Avenue Line at South Ferry Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IRT Broadway-Seventh Avenue Line at South Ferry Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*BMT Broadway at Whitehall Street Station*


BMT Broadway at Whitehall Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


BMT Broadway at Whitehall Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*BMT Broadway at Cortlandt Street Station*


BMT Broadway at Cortlandt Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


BMT Broadway at Cortlandt Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Dey Street Concourse by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*This is Fulton Center*


This is Fulton Center by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


This is Fulton Center by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


This is Fulton Center by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


This is Fulton Center by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Fulton Center Skylight by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


This is Fulton Center...Transfer available to the A/C/J/Z Trains by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## dimlys1994

From Fulton Center's roof:


The New Fulton Center by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

Below you can see something and that's your answer - escalator broke loose shortly last week, few days after opening


----------



## LastConformist

benjaminh said:


> I actually just admitted in #2424 that you were right.


Okay 

Though actually we do have some out-of-system fareless transfers programmed into the Metrocard despite the lack of exit swipe. The transfer between the F at Lexington-63rd and the 4/5/6/N/Q/R at Lexington-59th is the only one currently active, though there used to be another one at Court Square before the recent renovation completed (and connected all of the lines there inside fare control). I'm not sure how it works, but the decision was made not to allow such a fareless transfer between Fulton St and Cortlandt St, possibly because the routes are mostly redundant with one another in the area.


----------



## pablojavierm44

IGUAL AL SUBTE LACROZE


----------



## pablojavierm44




----------



## Nexis

These have already been posted and please use the BBCode when posting from Flickr...


----------



## City-of-Platinum

Why are there metal arches above each ticketing alley? 

I want to see all the cielings of the NY stations covered with a false new cieling so that old wires, tubes, pipes, etc are not visible.


----------



## Leeds No.1

I came on this thread to have a look to see if the Subway had improved since I last visited NYC, as I'll be in NYC again next week.

I'm disappointed really. Is Fulton Center the best effort? It's a good design as a building, but signage is horrendous, and as others have pointed out - the metal arches over the ticket gates? Is it not time for a better ticket gate design?


----------



## Nexis

You mean these bars?


Flushing - Main Street Station, East End Concourse, Structural Detail, Station Turnstiles 2014.11.20 by NYC Subway Rider, on Flickr


----------



## Leeds No.1

Yes. Turnstiles are also annoying for anyone with luggage, large items or dare I say overweight.. Possibly I'm just too used to this style:


----------



## Nexis

Leeds No.1 said:


> Yes. Turnstiles are also annoying for anyone with luggage, large items or dare I say overweight.. Possibly I'm just too used to this style:


I don't why they haven't changed their design.... Boston , PATH , PATCO , DC have all made it easier for luggage either with a new design or wider turnstile... Hopefully when they switch over to the Smartcard system they will change the Turnstile..


----------



## Nexis

Subway Photos from Today...

BMT Astoria Line


Main Street - Flushing bound 7 Train Leaving Queensboro Plaza by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


BMT Astoria Line at 39th Avenue – Beebe Avenue by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


BMT Astoria Line at 36th Avenue – Washington Avenue in Astoria - Queens,New York by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Q Train arriving at Astoria-Ditmars Boulevard Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Q Train arriving at Astoria-Ditmars Boulevard Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

Lexington Avenue / 59th Street Station


Elizabeth Murray's Mosaic at Lexington Avenue / 59th Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Elizabeth Murray's Mosaic at Lexington Avenue / 59th Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Exit & N/Q/R Trains at Lexington Avenue / 59th Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Downtown Express Trains this way! by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

IRT Broadway - Seventh Avenue Line 


IRT Broadway - Seventh Avenue Line at 59th Street - Columbus Circle Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IRT Broadway - Seventh Avenue Line at 59th Street - Columbus Circle Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IRT Broadway - Seventh Avenue Line at 59th Street - Columbus Circle Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IRT Broadway - Seventh Avenue Line at 50th Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IRT Broadway - Seventh Avenue Line at 50th Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IRT Broadway - Seventh Avenue Line at 50th Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IRT Broadway - Seventh Avenue Line at 50th Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IRT Broadway - Seventh Avenue Line at 50th Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## Gil

Nexis said:


> You mean these bars?
> 
> 
> Flushing - Main Street Station, East End Concourse, Structural Detail, Station Turnstiles 2014.11.20 by NYC Subway Rider, on Flickr


My guess is that they house all of the electrical components between all of the turnstiles. Having never seen earlier turnstiles, I presume that when they were token operated they didn't need the electrical components as everything was mechanical. Given the number of entrances it's probably faster to have the wiring externally rather than connecting them through the floor. Insert the number of turnstiles that will fit within the space allotted and put in the fencing for the difference if needed.


----------



## towerpower123

*Great, Light filled space!*


----------



## Nexis

More of Fulton Center


This is Fulton Center... by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Fulton Center Oculus by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


This is Fulton Street.... by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


This is Fulton Center... by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

IRT & IND Court Square - 23rd Street Station 


Main Street - Flushing Bound R188 7 Local Train departing Court Square - 23rd Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IRT Flushing Line at Court Square - 23rd Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IRT Flushing Line at Court Square - 23rd Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Court Square - 23rd Street Station in Queens,New York by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IND Queens Boulevard line at Courts Square - 23rd Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

BMT & IRT at Queensboro Plaza


Green Elevated Monster of Queensboro Plaza by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Green Elevated Monster of Queensboro Plaza by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


BMT Astoria Line at Queensboro Plaza by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


BMT Astoria Line at Queensboro Plaza by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


This is Queensboro Plaza by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


BMT Astoria Line at Queensboro Plaza by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IRT Flushing Line at Queensboro Plaza by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


BMT Astoria Line at Queensboro Plaza by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IRT Flushing Line at Queensboro Plaza by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

West 4th Street


IND 8th Avenue Line at West 4th Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Uptown A Train departing West 4th Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis




----------



## Woonsocket54

*Briarwood-Van Wyck Blvd station - new entrance opened 2014.12.08*

New subway entrance for a station in Queens opened on Tuesday. The subway entrance was reconstructed so the Van Wyck Expressway could be widened in both the northbound and southbound directions at this location.

press release: https://www.dot.ny.gov/news/press-releases/2014/2014-12-08














































source: https://www.facebook.com/NYSDOT/posts/10152550877334716


----------



## Nexis




----------



## Nexis

Whitehall Street


Queens Bound R Train departing Whitehall Street by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


BMT Broadway Line at Whitehall Street by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


BMT Broadway Line at Whitehall Street by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IRT Broadway - Seveth Avenue Line at South Ferry by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

IRT Broadway - Seveth Avenue Line 


IRT Broadway - Seveth Avenue Line at South Ferry by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IRT Broadway - Seveth Avenue Line at Penn Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Bronx Bound 1 Local Train departing 59th Street - Columbus Citcle by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

*IND Culver Line at Smith–Ninth Streets Station​*

IND Culver Line at Smith–Ninth Streets Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Queens Bound G Train at Smith-9th Streets Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Red Signal at Smith–Ninth Streets Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IND Culver Line at Smith–Ninth Streets Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Green Signal at Smith–Ninth Streets Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*2nd Avenue on the IND Sixth Avenue Line​*

Yellow Signal at 2nd Avenue on the IND Sixth Avenue Line by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Queens Bound F Train departing 2nd Avenue on the IND Sixth Avenue Line by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Nostalgia Special at 2nd Ave Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

*IRT Lexington Avenue at 86th Street Station​*
IRT Lexington Avenue at 86th Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IRT Lexington Avenue at 86th Street Station by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


046 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## Rodalvesdepaula

Nexis said:


> You mean these bars?
> 
> 
> Flushing - Main Street Station, East End Concourse, Structural Detail, Station Turnstiles 2014.11.20 by NYC Subway Rider, on Flickr


MTA Subway has any station with glass-type turnstiles such as São Paulo Subway ones?









http://www.digicon.com.br/site/smcasesbilhetagem/169-casesistemabilhetagemlinha4.html


----------



## j-biz

^^ Nope.


----------



## BarMNE

^^
in Europe too. lot of cities have glass-type turnstiles,and u cant jump :lol:


----------



## Kolothos

In a city like New York, with such a massive Subway system, the turnstiles are simply there because they work. They're much better for crowd management. No people up your arse trying to get a free ride (something I've experienced on a few occasions in Glasgow). The Metrocard works. Easy to use, no unexpected malfunctions. It's a case of if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I couldn't image the logistical nightmare of replacing every single Subway turnstile in NYC!

A lot of the turnstiles are exposed to the elements too, and you usually don't see our UK style ticket barriers out in the open.

Plus, I miss the satisfaction of totally hammering the turnstile around. Great stress relief. It's something I miss from the Glasgow Subway, and something I genuinely enjoyed doing in New York!


----------



## webeagle12

Rodalvesdepaula said:


> MTA Subway has any station with glass-type turnstiles such as São Paulo Subway ones?


nope our rail network is still stuck in 19th century


----------



## Nexis

Fulton Center at 5am...


Fulton Street Transit Center by Nick Gagliardi, on Flickr


----------



## dimlys1994

Official from MTA:



> http://www.mta.info/news/2014/12/12/mta-seeking-federal-funds-300m-l-line-improvements
> 
> *MTA Seeking Federal Funds for $300M for L Line Improvements*
> December 12th, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Metropolitan Transportation Authority is seeking federal funds for approximately $300 million in infrastructure improvements for the L Line, which runs from Manhattan to the Canarsie neighborhood in Brooklyn. Those neighborhoods have seen the largest increases in population in New York City.
> 
> The L line first opened as a segment on June 30, 1924, on a track vestige from a former steam-powered railway built in the 1860s. Its final segment opened on May 30, 1931, and the entire two-track line spans 10.3 route miles between Eighth Avenue in Manhattan and Canarsie-Rockaway Parkway in Brooklyn.
> 
> More than 300,000 customers use the L Line on an average weekday, an increase of 98% since 1998. The number of weekday customers who enter through the Bedford Av station, the line's busiest, has increased by 250%. After New York City Transit installed Communication-Based Train Control (CBTC) in 2007, a new signal system that increased NYC Transit’s ability to run more trains each hour, the line got a 27% increase in ridership
> 
> ...


----------



## dimlys1994

SAS December update - 86th Street station:


Second Avenue Subway Update - 86th Street Cavern Completion by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update - 86th Street Cavern Completion by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update - 86th Street Cavern Completion by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update - 86th Street Cavern Completion by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update - 86th Street Cavern Completion by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update - 86th Street Cavern Completion by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update - 86th Street Cavern Completion by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update - 86th Street Cavern Completion by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update - 86th Street Cavern Completion by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update - 86th Street Cavern Completion by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update - 86th Street Cavern Completion by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update - 86th Street Cavern Completion by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update - 86th Street Cavern Completion by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update - 86th Street Cavern Completion by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update - 86th Street Cavern Completion by MTAPhotos, on Flickr

96th St station:


Second Avenue Subway Update - 96th Street Cavern by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update - 96th Street Cavern by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update - 96th Street Cavern by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update - 96th Street Cavern by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update - 96th Street Cavern by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update - 96th Street Cavern by MTAPhotos, on Flickr


----------



## Falubaz

This one:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7509/16051851805_ab8182be2e_b.jpg
looks similar to Washington Metro.


----------



## dimlys1994

Falubaz said:


> This one:
> https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7509/16051851805_ab8182be2e_b.jpg
> looks similar to Washington Metro.


^^Except that this is upper level of station


----------



## Nouvellecosse

webeagle12 said:


> nope our rail network is still stuck in 19th century


Yes that tends to happen in cities who actually had these things back in the 19th century. It tends to take a lot of time and money to redo everything whenever another city shows up late to the party with something newer and shinier.


----------



## 00Zy99

Huh. 2nd Ave. is actually looking somewhat finished.


----------



## Nexis

This is Fulton Center


This is Fulton Center by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


The Soul of Fulton Center by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


A/C/J/Z Concourse at Fulton Center by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

Glowing Honey Comb at Broadway – Lafayette Street


Glowing Honey Comb at Broadway – Lafayette Street by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IND Sixth Avenue Line at Broadway – Lafayette Street by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

IND Sixth Avenue Line at 23rd Street


IND Sixth Avenue Line at 23rd Street by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

47th-50th Streets - Rockefeller Plaza


Queens Bound F Local Train departing 47th-50th Streets - Rockefeller Plaza by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Bedford Park Boulevard Bound B Train departing 47th-50th Streets - Rockefeller Plaza by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

42nd Street - Bryant Park


Times Square - 42nd Street Bound 7 Train at 42nd Street - Bryant Park by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


IRT Flushing line at 42nd Street - Bryant Park by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


Times Square - 42nd Street Bound 7 Train at 42nd Street - Bryant Park by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## sushiicetea

go to the nyc subway museum,you can see all the old cars.


----------



## DiogoBaptista

*Standing Clear of Doors, Removing Backpacks on Crowded Trains and Using Only One Seat are some of the Reminders Customers will See Starting in January*

http://www.mta.info/news-new-york-c...12/22/standing-clear-doors-removing-backpacks


​
December 22nd, 2014
"Courtesy Counts, Manners Make a Better Ride" is the message the MTA is trying to get across to customers who ride the trains and buses. MTA NYC Transit is unveiling a new placard campaign which urges customers to be aware that just a few courteous actions can make the ride more efficient while creating an atmosphere that can make a daily commute more pleasant and less stressful.

In January, a series of placards will begin appearing inside subway cars and then buses and the commuter railroads in February. They will bear gentle, but firm reminders pointing out common courtesies that can make traveling by mass transit more enjoyable for everyone. The messages serve to remind the MTA’s 8.6 million daily customers that they can help make the trip quicker and more pleasant by demonstrating a personal, consistent commitment to courtesy.

“Courtesy is always important but it takes on an added significance as transit ridership continues to increase,” said NYC Transit President Carmen Bianco. “The simple act of stepping aside to let riders off the train before you board can trim valuable seconds from the time a train dwells in a station while removing a backpack makes more room for everyone. These acts serve to speed the trip while increasing the level of comfort.”

The new program, developed by MTA Corporate Communications, highlights behaviors that are both encouraged and discouraged for the benefit of everyone. The messaging largely reflects complaints and suggestions from riders.

The colorfully-designed placards employ simple graphics to illustrate behavioral “do” and “don’t” scenarios. The illustrations are reinforced with pithy statements.

Do’s include:

• “Step Aside to Let Others Off First”

• “Keep Your Stuff to Yourself”

• “Take Your Pack Off Your Back”

• “Offer Your Seat to an Elderly, Disabled, or Pregnant Person”

• “Take Your Litter Off With You”

• “Keep the Sound Down”

No No’s include:

• “Pole Are For Your Safety, Not Your Latest Routine”

• “Clipping? Primping?”

• “Don’t be a Pole Hog”

• “It’s a Subway Car Not a Dining Car”

• “Blocking Doors”

• “Dude…..Stop the Spread, Please”

The 46-inch or 72-inch placards will be installed on 2,600 subway cars and plans are currently underway to add subway car announcements to the campaign. Additional campaigns will be created for buses and both the Long Island Rail Road and Metro-North Railroad. All of the topics and suggestions are intended to raise rider awareness of what they can do to create a better trip for everyone. The placards will be consistent reminders that courteous behavior is in everybody’s best interest for a more comfortable trip.


----------



## DaeguDuke

DiogoBaptista said:


> Standing Clear of Doors, Removing Backpacks on Crowded Trains and Using Only One Seat are some of the Reminders Customers will See Starting in January http://www.mta.info/news-new-york-city-transit-subway-bus-courtesy/2014/12/22/standing-clear-doors-removing-backpacks http://postimage.org/


http://s14.postimg.org/9pews7yb5/manspread.jpgWhat if you're saving room for cats?


----------



## rakcancer

DiogoBaptista said:


> • “Clipping? Primping?”
> 
> • “Dude…..Stop the Spread, Please”


These two most annoying things I have seen while riding subway.
I wish MTA that educational campaign works but from previous experience when MTA have tried to educate riders many times with no results, I am very pessimistic... I see bigger role for parents and teachers here.


----------



## Scizoid.Trans.Prog.

What is clipping and primping? My english is not so well developed


----------



## phoenixboi08

Scizoid.Trans.Prog. said:


> What is clipping and primping? My english is not so well developed


I think "clipping" refers to cutting one's nails?
"Primping" may mean adjusting one's makeup/hair/etc? I honestly don't know, either.


----------



## rakcancer

yeah nails clipping... disgusting...only in new york...


----------



## Fan Railer




----------



## Nexis

This is Fulton Center

The Soul of Fulton Center at Night by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## Bronxwood

The new connection at the broadway lafayette station is proof that we cant get things done right in this city. While its fantastic that we finally have a connection, the new section appears incredibly worn and dirty. I was honestly shocked at how dirty and sloppy the new section appears, its embarrassing. This is suppose to be new?


----------



## Jim856796

Any idea how long the platform lengths at NYC Subway stations are? Since they can vary by length, location, etc.?


----------



## Tower Dude

Around 564ft for the IRT stations and around 602 for the IND/BMT stations.


----------



## dimlys1994

Tower Dude said:


> Around 564ft for the IRT stations and around 602 for the IND/BMT stations.


172m for IRT, 183m for IND/BMT


----------



## Tower Dude

Either or, though ft is more accurate as the U.S. Refuses to use metric


----------



## FabriFlorence

Tower Dude said:


> Either or, though ft is more accurate as the U.S. Refuses to use metric


Ok but in Europe only metric system is used. A length indicated in feet means nothing for an european.


----------



## sotonsi

^^ looks like I'm not a European.

And that's fine by me.

Europe = do it our way!


----------



## HARTride 2012

There are a few oddballs in the system, like South Ferry (loop), that have shorter than average platforms.

Oh, and is Cortlandt St still slated to open sometime this year or early 2016?


----------



## dimlys1994

HARTride 2012 said:


> There are a few oddballs in the system, like South Ferry (loop), that have shorter than average platforms. Oh, and is Cortlandt St still slated to open sometime this year or early 2016?


It will be partial opened sometime in 2015, along with connection to WTC Hub.


----------



## Nexis

E Train at World Trade Center


E Train at World Trade Center by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr


----------



## dimlys1994

What do you think? Interesting article from Second Ave. Sagas:



> http://secondavenuesagas.com/2015/01/20/out-of-nowhere-cuomo-announces-an-airtrain-to-laguardia/
> 
> *Out of nowhere, Cuomo announces an AirTrain to Laguardia*
> By Benjamin Kabak, Jan 20, 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Gov. Cuomo announced a Laguardia Airtrain via Willets Point and the Grand Central Parkway_
> 
> After months of saying very little of anything while campaigning for a second term and hardly anything about transit for four years while governing, Andrew Cuomo stunned New Yorkers by announcing plans to build an AirTrain from the 7 train and LIRR station at Willets Point to Laguardia Airport. Cuomo, who has made modernizing New York’s struggling airports, said that the rail connection will cost $450 million and could be up and running within five years of the start of construction
> 
> ...


----------



## Arnorian

Wouldn't it be better to add a branch to the Port Washington line of LIRR, so the LaGuardia train could go to Woodside? It's a much better transfer point (a bunch of LIRR lines, 7, <7>), and Port Washington line is lightly used. Maybe the trains could continue to Penn Station and Grand Central Terminal outside rush hour.


----------



## Nexis

Arnorian said:


> Wouldn't it be better to add a branch to the Port Washington line of LIRR, so the LaGuardia train could go to Woodside? It's a much better transfer point (a bunch of LIRR lines, 7, <7>), and Port Washington line is lightly used. Maybe the trains could continue to Penn Station and Grand Central Terminal outside rush hour.


I don't think the cost warrants a Rail line. The current Bus Service does the job just fine and cheap... I rather see Cucmo throw money onto the Rockaway line restoration..


----------



## Arnorian

But if they are really determined to go rail, wouldn't it be better like this than ending the line at Willets Point? Two trains per hour off-peak on the Port Washington line don't have much of a value as a transfer choice, and the 7 in the non-peak direction has too many stops from there to Manhatten.


----------



## 00Zy99

I'd rather have it continue down the Van Wyck to Jamaica where it can hook into AirTrain JFK, and create an actual point-to-point service with the attendant economies of scale.


----------



## LastConformist

Arnorian said:


> But if they are really determined to go rail, wouldn't it be better like this than ending the line at Willets Point? Two trains per hour off-peak on the Port Washington line don't have much of a value as a transfer choice, and the 7 in the non-peak direction has too many stops from there to Manhatten.


I haven't seen anyone else mention this possibility, but I think it actually makes the most sense. You're right that the Port Washington Line definitely has the capacity to allow more trains. But I doubt the Port Authority wants the MTA to control the train to the airport, and the MTA would never let the Port Authority run trains over their tracks; their provincialism would destroy this proposal.

Also, on your map, the Long Island City and Hunterspoint Avenue stations are a separate branch. Trains from Penn can't stop there. They merge in just north of Hunterspoint Avenue.


----------



## throwaway

Recently came back from a trip to NY. Love the transport network, but how on earth is La Guardia not on it yet?


----------



## LastConformist

throwaway said:


> Recently came back from a trip to NY. Love the transport network, but how on earth is La Guardia not on it yet?


NIMBYs. They tried to extend the N/Q in Astoria to LaGuardia in the 90s, but a bunch of local residents didn't want the elevated train nearby.


----------



## ryaboisse

LastConformist said:


> NIMBYs. They tried to extend the N/Q in Astoria to LaGuardia in the 90s, but a bunch of local residents didn't want the elevated train nearby.


They didn't want to disturb the tranquility of living next to an airport in the largest metro area in the country? People make me laugh.:lol:


----------



## Fan Railer

ryaboisse said:


> They didn't want to disturb the tranquility of living next to an airport in the largest metro area in the country? People make me laugh.:lol:


You're obviously at a bit of a disconnect here, so allow me to explain.

The noise from an aircraft taking off a good distance away from a densely populated area (as airports are designed to be) is COMPLETELY different from an elevated metro system rolling over switches and rail joints @ 25-30 MPH about 40 feet from your apartment window. Believe me, it is DEAFENING. It is also MUCH more frequent than aircraft landings and takeoffs (every 3-5 min during rush hour, 5-10 min during the mid-day, and every 30 min overnight), and in the case of NYC, is 24/7. I worked at Queensboro Plaza over the summer, which is where the Astoria El Line splits off from the Flushing EL Line and heads north towards Astoria, so I would know.

So basically, while I am in the group that thinks an extension of the N from its current terminus to LaGuardia would be the best option for a mass transit connection to the airport, I can somewhat sympathize with the NIMBYs in the area.


----------



## phoenixboi08

Fan Railer said:


> You're obviously at a bit of a disconnect here, so allow me to explain.
> 
> The noise from an aircraft taking off a good distance away from a densely populated area (as airports are designed to be) is COMPLETELY different from an elevated metro system rolling over switches and rail joints @ 25-30 MPH about 40 feet from your apartment window. Believe me, it is DEAFENING. It is also MUCH more frequent than aircraft landings and takeoffs (every 3-5 min during rush hour, 5-10 min during the mid-day, and every 30 min overnight), and in the case of NYC, is 24/7. I worked at Queensboro Plaza over the summer, which is where the Astoria El Line splits off from the Flushing EL Line and heads north towards Astoria, so I would know.
> 
> So basically, while I am in the group that thinks an extension of the N from its current terminus to LaGuardia would be the best option for a mass transit connection to the airport, I can somewhat sympathize with the NIMBYs in the area.


Good points, but I've always been more convinced they just didn't want to _see_ an elevated line, since noise can be mitigated. 

To that effect, do the current techniques employed to lessen that disturbance actually work?

As an anecdote, Shanghai has an - mostly - elevated circumferential line in the center, and it seems they tried to consider noise abatement (then again, Shanghai's trains are a bit quieter anyways). 

I've always wondered how effective it really is.










(ShangHai Metro-Line 3/4-ZhengPingLu Station)
Panaramio by 43mini


----------



## Tower Dude

That's because Shanghai built their elevated line out of concrete which is more absorbent of the kinetic vibrations caused by the trains, while New York has a very old elevated system that is made mostly from iron and steel and metal tends to make noise as shear stress is placed upon it.


----------



## MrAronymous

Well.. aren't we talking about a new alignment?


----------



## Tower Dude

Ya but just saying the good people of Astoria aren't the most open minded of people. If they think elevated train they probably thought it would be like the 7 or N/R. Also there is the matter of the all mighty property value and because of the aforementioned reasons a zoning change that would necessitate a subway extension does not seem likely


----------



## Tom 958

*For LaGuardia, an AirTrain that will save almost no one any time*, Yonah Freemark

"It’s hard to imagine how the state can justify spending half a billion dollars on a transit project that will increase travel times for most people."


----------



## JustinB

Wow. A politcian pretending to be a transit planner. So shocked!


----------



## CNB30

JustinB said:


> Wow. A politcian pretending to be a transit planner. So shocked!


yeah, tell that to Republicans :lol:


----------



## Tower Dude

Eh NY republicans tend not to be that bad


----------



## 00Zy99

That 1990s proposal was first put forward in the 1930s.


----------



## Tower Dude

Ya it was proposed by LaGuardia to Connect the Airport he was Building to the rest of the city, and I don't know the reasons why it wasn't funded but probably Good old Bobby M. was involved and Giuliani proposed it because was a good idea and it still is!


----------



## CNB30

i thought the original reason for it's killing had something to do with Cab unions, but I may be mistaken. ^^


----------



## Fan Railer

Tower Dude said:


> Eh NY republicans tend not to be that bad


They can't be; otherwise they'd never win elections lol. Urban Republicans are almost always moderates.


----------



## 00Zy99

I think it's a sign of good tidings that we're seeing the oldest cars on the system (R-62s) and they're looking pretty good for being 30 years old. I believe that plans call for them to be retired pretty soon.


----------



## Nexis

*MTA: Ridership in outerborough subway stations growing faster than in Manhattan*

http://www.amny.com/transit/mta-ridership-in-outerboro-subway-stations-growing-faster-than-in-manhattan-1.10306080


----------



## Nexis




----------



## mrsmartman

*100 Years of New York City's Subway Cars*


----------



## Nexis




----------



## mrsmartman

*Daily Miracle (1961)*


----------



## mrsmartman

*Arteries of New York City*


----------



## mrsmartman

*The 3rd Avenue Elevated*


















































http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/The_3rd_Avenue_Elevated


----------



## mrsmartman

New York Subway is famous for its Express Service enabled by widespread multiple track implementation.









http://s3.amazonaws.com/hs-static/transit_maps/578559504_2720e628b2ccad9528b983bacf4ea27f.gif









http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...erground_or_overground_track_position.svg.png









http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/30/NYC_Subway_number_of_tracks.svg









http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Subway_train_125th.jpg









http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/R68_D_train_at_BMT_9th_ave.JPG









http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/NYC_Subway_8357_on_the_M.jpg









http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/NYC_Subway_R160B_8888_on_the_N.jpg









http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/Q_train.jpg


----------



## mrsmartman

*THE HISTORY OF NEW YORK CITY NYC SUBWAYS Full Documentary*


----------



## jay stew

I'll be riding the New York subway for the first time (as well as the PATH) tomorrow. Pics will be taken.


----------



## CNB30

jay stew said:


> I'll be riding the New York subway for the first time (as well as the PATH) tomorrow. Pics will be taken.


Don't lose your camera like I did


----------



## Nexis

CNB30 said:


> Don't lose your camera like I did


How did you loose your camera?


----------



## CNB30

Nexis said:


> How did you loose your camera?


I think what happened was that it fell out of my pocket, and was probably taken (I've learned that those jeans aren't the best for carrying things in).


----------



## Nexis

CNB30 said:


> I think what happened was that it fell out of my pocket, and was probably taken (I've learned that those jeans aren't the best for carrying things in).


Ah ,I usually put my Camera , Phone and Wallet in my Camera bag which I wear on my back....tends to fend off anyone trying to steal my stuff...


----------



## mrsmartman

*New York Subway Graffiti in the 70`s and 80`s*


----------



## Woonsocket54

If you are reading this in the year 2015, the 7 train extension will not open during your life time.

http://secondavenuesagas.com/2015/04/27/mta-now-eying-q3-for-7-line-extension-opening/


----------



## 00Zy99

Official confirmation of a previously-announced delay of a couple of months is no reason to get up in arms.


----------



## Alargule

Please keep in mind that the original completion date was projected for the end of 2013. That means the opening date has been delayed by a little more than a 'couple of months' (depending on your definition of 'a couple', of course).

However, I do agree that - unless you're in your late 80's or 90's - most of us probably will see the line open in our lifetime. I'm eyening late September 2015.


----------



## mrsmartman

*New York Subway (1905) - G.W. Bitzer - Interior NYC From 14th to 42nd Street*


----------



## Nexis

*IRT West Side Line

Houston Street​*

092 by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT West Side Line at Houston Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT West Side Line at Houston Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT West Side Line at Houston Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT West Side Line at Houston Street by Corey Best, on Flickr

*Christopher Street - Sheridan Square​*


IRT West Side Line at Christopher Street - Sheridan Square by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT West Side Line at Christopher Street - Sheridan Square by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT West Side Line at Christopher Street - Sheridan Square by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT West Side Line at Christopher Street - Sheridan Square by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT West Side Line at Christopher Street - Sheridan Square by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT West Side Line at Christopher Street - Sheridan Square by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## dimlys1994

Cortlandt Street station on IRT Broadway – Seventh Avenue Line, taken on 28 April by New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/30/n...subway-station-art-woven-from-words.html?_r=2


----------



## Nexis

All the Stations Ive photographed or taken video in...for Manhattan

*Manhattan*

*42nd Street Shuttle*
Times Square
Grand Central

*IND Sixth Avenue Line* -- 12 out of 14 Stations
Seventh Avenue
47th–50th Streets – Rockefeller Center
42nd Street – Bryant Park
34th Street – Herald Square
14th Street
West Fourth Street – Washington Square
Broadway – Lafayette Street
Second Avenue
Delancey Street

*BMT Broadway Line* -- 14 out of 16 Stations..
Lexington Avenue / 59th Street
Fifth Avenue / 59th Street
Times Square – 42nd Street
34th Street – Herald Square
28th Street
23rd Street
14th Street - Union Square
Eighth Street – New York University
Prince Street
Canal Street
City Hall
Cortlandt Street
Rector Street
Whitehall Street – South Ferry

*IRT Lexington Avenue Line* -- 18 out of 23 Stations
103rd Street
96th Street
86th Street
59th Street
51st Street
Grand Central – 42nd Street
33rd Street
28th Street
23rd Street
14th Street – Union Square
Astor Place
Bleecker Street
Spring Street
Canal Street
Brooklyn Bridge – City Hall
Fulton Street
Wall Street
Bowling Green


*IRT Broadway – Seventh Avenue Line* -- 19 out of 44 Stations
96th Street
59th Street – Columbus Circle
50th Street
Times Square – 42nd Street
34th Street – Penn Station
28th Street
23rd Street
18th Street
14th Street
Christopher Street – Sheridan Square
Houston Street
Canal Street
Franklin Street
Chambers Street
Park Place
Fulton Street
Wall Street
Rector Street
South Ferry Loop

*IND Eighth Avenue Line* -- 12 out of 30 Stations
81st Street – Museum of Natural History
72nd Street
59th Street – Columbus Circle
42nd Street – Port Authority Bus Terminal
34th Street – Penn Station
23rd Street
14th Street
West Fourth Street – Washington Square
Spring Street
Canal Street
Chambers Street / World Trade Center
Fulton Street 

*Stations I hope to Photograph this Summer...in Manhattan*
Washington Heights – 168th Street - IND Eighth Avenue Line / IRT Broadway – Seventh Avenue Line
125th Street - IRT Broadway – Seventh Avenue Line
Dyckman Street - IRT Broadway – Seventh Avenue Line
Van Cortlandt Park – 242nd Street - IRT Broadway – Seventh Avenue Line


----------



## lsg97

Keeping my fingers crossed you can go to take some photos at 34th St-Hudson Yards station this year too, Nexis!


----------



## Nexis

lsg97 said:


> Keeping my fingers crossed you can go to take some photos at 34th St-Hudson Yards station this year too, Nexis!


I forgot about that , if it opens this year.... :lol:


----------



## Aju76

Is WTC transportation hub opened to users ?


----------



## Woonsocket54

lsg97 said:


> Keeping my fingers crossed you can go to take some photos at 34th St-Hudson Yards station this year too, Nexis!


LMAO! :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## 00Zy99

Woonsocket54 said:


> LMAO! :lol::lol::lol:


Since all of the problems seem to be worked out now, this time it will probably open on the date given. Stop being cynical.


----------



## Woonsocket54

00Zy99 said:


> all of the problems seem to be worked out now


Call me a cynic, a skeptic, a Debbie Downer, a Negative Nancy, what have you - but there is absolutely no truth behind the above-quoted assertion.


----------



## 00Zy99

Woonsocket54 said:


> Call me a cynic, a skeptic, a Debbie Downer, a Negative Nancy, what have you - but there is absolutely no truth behind the above-quoted assertion.


What evidence do you have for saying this? And don't just say "they failed to meet previous deadlines". That's a fallacy.


----------



## Woonsocket54

00Zy99 said:


> What evidence do you have for saying this? And don't just say "they failed to meet previous deadlines". That's a fallacy.


What evidence do you have that they've solved all their issues? Can you point to a press release or a tweet or even a musing on Second Avenue Sagas blog? To quote the late Senator Moynihan, you are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.


----------



## 00Zy99

Woonsocket54 said:


> What evidence do you have that they've solved all their issues? Can you point to a press release or a tweet or even a musing on Second Avenue Sagas blog? To quote the late Senator Moynihan, you are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.


http://web.mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/150323_1030_Transit_BUS.pdf#page=146

Page 146 has some interesting facts that you might like to read.

An official report seems to be better than a tweet to me.


----------



## 00Zy99

Also this:

http://web.mta.info/capitaldashboard/CPDHome.html?AGY=z&PLN=M&RPT=fle

I get the impression that they are just being overly-cautious at this point.


----------



## Woonsocket54

00Zy99 said:


> Also this:
> 
> http://web.mta.info/capitaldashboard/CPDHome.html?AGY=z&PLN=M&RPT=fle
> 
> I get the impression that they are just being overly-cautious at this point.


Thanks. That document just proves my point:



> Revenue Service has shifted from the recent forecast of 1st Quarter of 2015 to 2nd Quarter of 2015. The Site J developer is accelerating their foundation construction and the expectation is for this work to be completed in the next couple of months. This provides an opportunity to eliminate potential risk to station operations by completing this work before the station is open for customer service.


And 2Q 2015 opening is not happening anymore.


----------



## Nexis

All the Stations Ive photographed or taken video in...for Queens , includes some the Manhattan stations the Flushing line

*IRT Flushing Line * -- 10 out of the 21 Stations
Times Square – 42nd Street / Port Authority Bus Terminal
Fifth Avenue
Grand Central
Vernon Boulevard – Jackson Avenue
Hunters Point Avenue
Court Square
Queensboro Plaza
40th Street – Lowery Street
61st Street – Woodside
Flushing – Main Street

*BMT Astoria Line* -- 3 out of the 7 Stations 
Astoria – Ditmars Boulevard 
Astoria Boulevard
Queensboro Plaza

*IND Queens Boulevard Line* -- 5 out of the 20 Stations
Forest Hills – 71st Avenue
Queens Plaza
Court Square
Lexington Avenue – 53rd Street
Fifth Avenue / 53rd Street

*IND/BMT Archer Avenue Lines* -- 1 out of the 3 Stations
Sutphin Boulevard – Archer Avenue – JFK Airport (Upper Level)

*IND Rockaway Line*
Beach 67th Street

* Stations I hope to Photograph this Summer...in Queens*
Howard Beach - IND Rockaway Line
Broad Channel - IND Rockaway Line
Rockaway Park – Beach 116th Street - IND Rockaway Line
52nd Street - IRT Flushing 
Mets – Willets Point - IRT Flushing


----------



## 00Zy99

Woonsocket54 said:


> Thanks. That document just proves my point:
> 
> 
> 
> And 2Q 2015 opening is not happening anymore.


No, it proves my point. All that's left is the foundations for something not really related to the station. So they can open both entrances at once. 

And now its delayed 2 days into Q3. Woop-de-do.


----------



## Woonsocket54

Where did you read that it will open 2015.07.02?


----------



## 00Zy99

Video of a press conference. Can't remember the URL.


----------



## Nexis

Some Misc Photos from Yesterday


IND 6th Avenue Line at 34th Street - Herald Square by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND 6th Avenue Line at 34th Street - Herald Square by Corey Best, on Flickr


R188 Flushing - Main Street Bound 7 Local Train at Grand Central by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

*Some R142As awaiting conversion to R188s at the Kawasaki Plant in Yonkers,NY
*

R188's at Kawaski Yonkers Plant by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

*IRT West Side Line *​
*Park Place*


IRT West Side Line at Park Place in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT West Side Line at Park Place in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT West Side Line at Park Place in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr

*Wall Street*


IRT West Side Line at Wall Street in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT West Side Line at Wall Street in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT West Side Line at Wall Street in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT West Side Line at Wall Street in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT West Side Line at Wall Street in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT West Side Line at Wall Street in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT West Side Line at Wall Street in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT West Side Line at Wall Street in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr

*Fulton Street*


IRT West Side Line at Fulton Street in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT West Side Line at Fulton Street in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

*R188 Times Square - 42nd Street Bound 7 Train Crossing the Sunnyside Yard Bridge*


R188 crossing over the NEC by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

*A Subway Delay Story*


----------



## towerpower123

*Transit Tracker*

This amazing visualization uses the station arrival times and GPS tracking from varying transit agencies to track ALL of the transit vehicles moving around. Is is quite beautiful watching the subways and buses move.
http://tracker.geops.ch/?z=14&s=1&x=-8235802.5165&y=4971280.4011&l=transport


----------



## doc7austin

Is that real-time or only simulated based on published schedules?


----------



## Nexis

doc7austin said:


> Is that real-time or only simulated based on published schedules?


It seems a little slow , so i'm guessing its based for on schedules. I don't think the Subways have GPS tracked trains.


----------



## lsg97

I created this map today showing line extensions and or new lines for the NYC subway that seemed necessary/reasonable to me.
They are probably never going to be built but I'd do so in an instant if I had like $100bn spare and the convincing rhetorics for them NIMBYs.
If they are noted as extensions (ext) I only drew the new portions of the line starting at the current terminus. I already took the 7 extension as well as phase 1 of the sas for granted and did not include them since they should open some time within the next 2 years.
Enjoy:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zqeJHTCVprRY.kjCn9e63M49o&usp=sharing


----------



## Nexis

lsg97 said:


> I created this map today showing line extensions and or new lines for the NYC subway that seemed necessary/reasonable to me.
> They are probably never going to be built but I'd do so in an instant if I had like $100bn spare and the convincing rhetorics for them NIMBYs.
> If they are noted as extensions (ext) I only drew the new portions of the line starting at the current terminus. I already took the 7 extension as well as phase 1 of the sas for granted and did not include them since they should open some time within the next 2 years.
> Enjoy:
> https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zqeJHTCVprRY.kjCn9e63M49o&usp=sharing


You need to make your map public.


----------



## lsg97

thanks for the heads up, I think I fixed it
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zqeJHTCVprRY.kjCn9e63M49o&usp=sharing


----------



## phoenixboi08

lsg97 said:


> thanks for the heads up, I think I fixed it
> https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zqeJHTCVprRY.kjCn9e63M49o&usp=sharing


Hmm, that's curious! What's your reason for sending the T (are we calling it that, now...or should I just stick with 2nd Ave?) Westwards? I always thought everyone found it necessary to continue on towards the Bronx.

That's an interesting idea.


----------



## Nexis

*All the Stations Ive photographed or taken video in...for Brooklyn *

*BMT Fourth Avenue Line* - 4 out of the 16 Stations
DeKalb Avenue
Atlantic Avenue – Barclays Center
Ninth Street
25th Street 

*IND Eighth Avenue Line* 1 of 1 stations in Brooklyn 
High Street 

*BMT Brighton Line* - 9 out of the 20 Stations
DeKalb Avenue 
Atlantic Avenue – Barclays Center
Church Avenue
Beverley Road
Avenue H
Brighton Beach
Ocean Parkway
West Eighth Street – New York Aquarium
Coney Island – Stillwell Avenue

*IND Culver Line* - 4 out of the 21 Stations
Smith–Ninth Streets
Fourth Avenue
Avenue N
West Eighth Street – New York Aquarium

*Stations I hope to Photograph by the end the Summer*
Atlantic Avenue - Barclays Center Complex
Borough Hall Complex
Grand Army Plaza - IRT Eastern Parkway Line
Eastern Parkway – Brooklyn Museum - IRT Eastern Parkway Line
Hoyt–Schermerhorn Streets - IND Crosstown Line


----------



## Nexis

lsg97 said:


> thanks for the heads up, I think I fixed it
> https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zqeJHTCVprRY.kjCn9e63M49o&usp=sharing


1. I would send the T into the Bronx while the Q would head along 125th Street...

2. The J/Z Extensions aren't needed as they are serviced by buses or the LIRR. NYC Subway cannot leave NYC Limits.

3. Letter lines cannot mix with number lines as the train widths are different.

4. I like both your L & Flatbush Avenue extensions..


----------



## lsg97

phoenixboi08 said:


> Hmm, that's curious! What's your reason for sending the T (are we calling it that, now...or should I just stick with 2nd Ave?) Westwards? I always thought everyone found it necessary to continue on towards the Bronx.
> 
> That's an interesting idea.


I thought it made some sense since there is no real, contiguous east-west subway north of 63rd Street. Also, if this EVER gets realized, they might aswell be building Metro-North's West Side access and this project sees a station at the latitude of 125th Avenue so this version of the T could connect there.

Actually building it northeastward into the Bronx seems pretty interesting to, I might add that.


----------



## 00Zy99

I would have the 2nd Ave take over Dyre Ave Line, after paralleling the MNRR West Side Access down the Hell Gate Line.

This takes advantage of the clearances on that line, and basically reinstates the New York, Westchester & Boston within NYC limits, extending it down to Manhattan at long last.


----------



## 00Zy99

I would also run another branch up along roughly Third Avenue looping around into Norwood 205th St, giving a connection back into the Concourse Line.


----------



## lsg97

Thank you for your feedback; the Bronx as part of the T will definitely be considered once I get to edit the map asap (probably tomorrow), makes sense of course since the sas is supposed to be operated on by two services
services.



Nexis said:


> 3. Letter lines cannot mix with number lines as the train widths are different.


You are referring to the LaGuardia line into Flushing and/or the (2)/(3) JFK extension, right?


----------



## N.Y.C.H

I was wondering are the new york subways ever going to get a redesign? I'm sure their not that old, but I think that boxy design might be getting a little dated. Just wondering


----------



## Nexis

N.Y.C.H said:


> I was wondering are the new york subways ever going to get a redesign? I'm sure their not that old, but I think that boxy design might be getting a little dated. Just wondering


It was mainly built the cut and cover way...hence the boxy design... Newer lines are bored and circular along with the underwater tunnels and deep stations which are circular..


----------



## Nexis




----------



## Woonsocket54

*Second Avenue Subway*









https://twitter.com/adamlisberg/status/601404570372329472


----------



## lsg97

I don't even know if this is the adequate thread but I wasn't to sure which one it should be instead so here goes:
There are plans for a light rail line along the Western Coast of Staten Island, connecting to the SIR at one of its southern stations (Pleasant Plains or Arthur Kill were named as examples) and then going all the way up, crossing the Bayonne bridge and terminating at the southern end of the HBLR.
Now those plans seem to be quite concrete already and concstruction could potentially start as early as 2018 but there is a petition to be signed for Cuomo. I will paste the link now so maybe we can boast the project.
https://www.change.org/p/gov-andrew...rs&utm_term=0_b8b74f1e21-37c321e612-209883825


----------



## Woonsocket54

00Zy99 said:


> No, it proves my point. All that's left is the foundations for something not really related to the station. So they can open both entrances at once.
> 
> And now its delayed 2 days into Q3. Woop-de-do.


7 train extension will indeed open 2015.07.02. It's official.

You were right. I was wrong. My deepest apologies.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/opening-new-extension-7-line-months-article-1.2243125


----------



## 00Zy99

Woonsocket54 said:


> 7 train extension will indeed open 2015.07.02. It's official.
> 
> You were right. I was wrong. My deepest apologies.
> 
> http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/opening-new-extension-7-line-months-article-1.2243125


Dude, replying to old post == bad etiquette hno:hno:

And apparently they're still deciding the final date, and July 2nd is still in the lead.


----------



## Woonsocket54

00Zy99 said:


> Dude, replying to old post == bad etiquette hno:hno:


Wow, you are a sore winner! Congratulations.


----------



## 00Zy99

Woonsocket54 said:


> Wow, you are a sore winner! Congratulations.


It's not about winning or losing.

It's about being polite.


----------



## dimlys1994

SAS May update from MTA:


SAS_9313 by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


SAS_9383 by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


SAS_9423 by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


SAS_9532 by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


SAS_9614 by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


SAS_9622 by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


SAS_9667 by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


SAS_9675 by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


SAS_9719 by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


SAS_9728 by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


SAS_9793 by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


SAS_9931 by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


----------



## Alargule

It will be open for revenue service in December 2016!

Sure :smug:


----------



## dimlys1994

Another look inside of Fulton Center:


----------



## Nexis

Ricardo31330 said:


> some subway from other countries:


Wrong thread , this is for NYC only...there are threads for those cities...


----------



## Fan Railer

Maybe there's an ironic point he's trying to make here; that the NYCS sucks compared to most other contemporary transit systems lol.


----------



## Nexis

*Some Photos from yesterday*

*BMT Broadway Line​*
*34th Street - Herald Square*


BMT Broadway Line at 34th Street - Herald Square Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr

*28th Street*


BMT Broadway Line at 28th Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


BMT Broadway Line at 28th Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


BMT Broadway Line at 28th Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


BMT Broadway Line at 28th Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


BMT Broadway Line at 28th Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


BMT Broadway Line at 28th Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr

*IRT Flushing Line​*
*Grand Central*


IRT Flushing Line at Grand Central - 42nd Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Flushing Line at Grand Central - 42nd Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr

*Times Square*


R188 7 Train at Times Square - 42nd Street by Corey Best, on Flickr

*IRT West Side Line​*
*34th Street - Penn Station*


IRT West Side Line at 34th Street - Penn Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT West Side Line at 34th Street - Penn Station by Corey Best, on Flickr

*Uptown C Train Departing 42nd Street*


R160 C Train departing 42nd Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## dimlys1994

First train ride on SAS:


Second Avenue Subway Update: First Work Train Ride by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update: First Work Train Ride by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update: First Work Train Ride by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update: First Work Train Ride by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update: First Work Train Ride by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update: First Work Train Ride by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update: First Work Train Ride by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update: First Work Train Ride by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update: First Work Train Ride by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update: First Work Train Ride by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


----------



## Arnorian

Jug Cerović's revamped NYC Subway map:



http://www.inat.fr/


----------



## Nexis

I don't like it , I prefer the geographically accurate maps...


----------



## CNB30

I beg to differ


----------



## sotonsi

Certainly the clearest representation I've seen of peak and express services. And a nice small map (caused by rotating Long Island) makes it possible to handle it without getting into someone else's personal space.

The Geography of Manhattan and Long Island (if you rotate it back) isn't far off, and there is no reason to keep every little kink, as the official map does.


----------



## Arnorian

I think it's a big improvement from the first version. Brooklyn and the Bronx are closer to the real shape of the network, and he abandoned different shades of the line color for the express and local lines, which makes the map less cluttered.


----------



## Nexis

*The MTA’s Accessibility Gap*



> The MTA, for all our complaints, does several commendable things. Its customer costs are relatively low, especially when accounting for its 24/7 service, relative train frequency, and extensive system. However, one area where they aren’t so great is on accessibility. Of the five largest subway/light rail systems in the country, two (San Francisco and DC) are fully accessible. Two more have far more than half of their stations accessible (Boston—only some Green Line stations non-accessible; Chicago—primarily some Blue and Red line stations non-accessible). This leaves New York. While there are 490 stations in the New York system (including Staten Island), barely more than 100 stations are accessible:



Read More Here : https://subwayrecord.wordpress.com/2015/03/26/the-mtas-accessibility-gap/


----------



## mrsmartman

^^ May I know where the Concourse Line is?


----------



## Nexis

mrsmartman said:


> ^^ May I know where the Concourse Line is?


The Rest of the line doesn't have any ADA stations so its not shown.


----------



## Nexis

Today was a BMT day....

*BMT Broadway Line at 49th Street*


BMT Broadway Line at 49th Street in Midtown Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


BMT Broadway Line at 49th Street in Midtown Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


BMT Broadway Line at 49th Street in Midtown Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


BMT Broadway Line at 49th Street in Midtown Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


BMT Broadway Line at 49th Street in Midtown Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


BMT Broadway Line at 49th Street in Midtown Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr

*BMT Nassau Line at Canal Street*

BMT Nassau Street Line at Canal Street in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


BMT Nassau Street Line at Canal Street in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


BMT Nassau Street Line at Canal Street in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


BMT Nassau Street Line at Canal Street in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


BMT Nassau Street Line at Canal Street in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr

*Fulton Street*


BMT Nassau Street Line at Fulton Street in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


BMT Nassau Street Line at Fulton Street in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


BMT Nassau Street Line at Fulton Street in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr

*This is Fulton Center*


This is Fulton Center by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

*New experimental Door Closing Voice along with New shorten announcements *


----------



## Nexis

*Whitehall - South Ferry Complex *


180 by Corey Best, on Flickr


BMT Broadway Line at Whitehall Station in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


182 by Corey Best, on Flickr


BMT Broadway Line at Whitehall Station in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT West Side Line at South Ferry Station in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT West Side Line at South Ferry Station in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT West Side Line at South Ferry Station in Lower Manhattan,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## jay stew

Nexis said:


> *New experimental Door Closing Voice along with New shorten announcements *


No more "Stand clear of the closing doors, please"? hno:


----------



## mrsmartman

Any plans for the old South Ferry station? Keep it like the City Hall station?


----------



## Fan Railer

mrsmartman said:


> Any plans for the old South Ferry station? Keep it like the City Hall station?


Old South Ferry is not nearly as iconic as City Hall is. Once they finish rebuilding New South Ferry, they will shut down the old loop platform again, and that will be that.


----------



## mrsmartman

^^ As I know, the inner loop is used by trains in South Ferry Station.


----------



## Fan Railer

mrsmartman said:


> ^^ As I know, the inner loop is used by trains in South Ferry Station.


Yes, the tracks will still be used for non-revenue trains, but the platform will remain closed.


----------



## Nexis

*An RFW Bonus Special - BMT D Types via Court St Shuttle*


----------



## HARTride 2012

Fan Railer said:


> Yes, the tracks will still be used for non-revenue trains, but the platform will remain closed.


And probably forever at that, unless gosh forbid there's another storm. Hopefully though, the new South Ferry will be equipped with prevention systems to keep the water out of the station.


----------



## Alargule

Meh. Water shwater.


----------



## Fan Railer

Product from my trip to the Rockaways (6/17). Be sure to watch in full HD (60 FPS): 





Real time videos:









Short clips:









___________________________________________________________________
In other news, to celebrate the BMT's 100th Year Anniversary, The BMT Standards, D-Type Triplexes, Arnines, and R11/34 will be running regular price shuttle service between Brighton Beach and Kings Highway between 12PM and 4PM on both 6/27 and 6/28. Come out and join the fun =)


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Nice!


----------



## Woonsocket54

MTA NYC Transit is proposing Q44 SBS - a monster Select Bus Service route connecting Jamaica to Bronx Zoo - beginning fall 2015.










http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/downloads/pdf/2015-06-15-brt-flushing-jamaica-cb8-presentation.pdf


----------



## Nexis




----------



## Nexis




----------



## Fan Railer

All of my Vintage Nostalgia Train catches this past weekend (scroll down to the bottom half of the playlist): https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWcHmTMSV7mgmw48xKu6wJtTSSfTZL7Dc

Some sample clips:


----------



## Fan Railer

R1/9 wheelslip:


----------



## mrsmartman

*Second Avenue Subway*


----------



## mrsmartman

*125th Street station on the IRT Broadway – Seventh Avenue Line*


----------



## Woonsocket54

7 train extension opens tomorrow.

Congratulations NYC!


----------



## dimlys1994

Woonsocket54 said:


> 7 train extension opens tomorrow.
> 
> Congratulations NYC!


REALLY? OMG:banana:


----------



## dimlys1994

Woonsocket54 said:


> 7 train extension opens tomorrow.
> 
> Congratulations NYC!


I'm afraid it not, I can't find any news regarding this. Wrong alert


----------



## jay stew

I haven't read anything about 34 Street - Hudson Yards opening today.


----------



## Woonsocket54

I'm afraid I jumped the gun. There's still an hour left in the day, but I don't think it will open today. Sorry, guys.


----------



## dimlys1994

Woonsocket54 said:


> I'm afraid I jumped the gun. There's still an hour left in the day, but I don't think it will open today. Sorry, guys.


Don't worry


----------



## Alargule

Woonsocket54 said:


> 7 train extension opens tomorrow,


:hahano:


----------



## HARTride 2012

I bet it will be another month? No?


----------



## Fan Railer

The opening date has NOT been officially announced yet, but if there are NO MORE delays, expect sometime around August.


----------



## jay stew

> What's the longest ride you can take on the New York subway? The MTA website says it's a 38-mile trip from 241st Street in the Bronx to Far Rockaway, but we think we can do better. We found a route between those same two stations that covers over 148 miles of track. It uses every subway line at least once and requires 45 transfers.
> 
> UPDATE 4:05 PM: Our 148-mile route was based on four computers checking 200 billion possibilities and counting. But using this page, someone's browser found an even longer route today: 154.6 miles with 54 transfers! We've verified that route, and mapped it here:












http://www.wnyc.org/story/search-longest-subway-ride/


----------



## Minato ku

^^ With a lot of transfer, you can go far. :lol:


----------



## CNB30

how is that the longest ride when it doesn't completely cover every single line


----------



## Masoud145

Nice City


----------



## Nexis

2 Subway Photos from yesterday


Downtown 6 Train by Corey Best, on Flickr 


Brooklyn Bound 5 Express train at Fulton Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## mrsmartman

This is amazing, revealing numerous parallel routes in the system. Is there any requirement for passengers to travel with the fastest route as a fare evasion prevention policy?


----------



## jay stew

CNB30 said:


> how is that the longest ride when it doesn't completely cover every single line


The rules...



> Rules for a Data News-approved longest subway ride
> 
> You can visit the same station as many times as you want.
> 
> You can make any station-to-station transfer that's marked as a free transfer on the subway map.
> 
> You can only ride each segment of the subway map once. A segment is basically anything that looks like one segment on the map. If any two lines go between station A and station B, and they don't diverge in between, that's one segment.
> 
> Once you've ridden a segment, you can't backtrack in the opposite direction. If you take the R north from Bay Ridge - 95 St, you can't take it back south.
> 
> Once you've taken the local, you can't take the express, and vice versa. If you take the E from 14 St to 34 St - Penn Station, you can't take the A between them later.
> 
> If there's more than one line, but they run side-by-side on the map, that's still one segment. The E, F, M and R between Jackson Heights and Forest Hills are one segment together. The B and Q from Prospect Park to Brighton Beach are one segment together.
> 
> We're choosing to ignore the existence of the West 8 St - NY Aquarium and Sutphin Blvd - Archer Av stations for simplicity's sake.
> 
> We assume that every standard line is running in its entirety, including the shuttles.
> 
> The AirTrain isn't a subway line. Don't be ridiculous.


----------



## CNB30

ah, ok, that's pathetic


----------



## Woonsocket54

In addition to including the M86 Select Bus Service, the new Manhattan bus map out today for the first time acknowledges the 7 train extension.

old:










new:


----------



## mrsmartman

*R32 A train at B 67th Street*










The R32 A train is leaving Beach 67th Street on its way to Far Rockaway.


----------



## jay stew

^^ I didn't know the Brightliners were still in use.


----------



## mrsmartman

^^ The R160s replaced many of the R32s in the late 2000s. They were intended to replace the entire fleet, but this has been halted due to structural issues found on the R44s that led to those cars' retirement. All GE and Phase II R32s have been retired, as were a handful of Phase I R32s. After retirement, most cars were stripped and sunk as artificial reefs. However, since 2010, retired R32s have been trucked to Sims Metal Management's Newark facility to be scrapped and processed.

The remaining cars are maintained at the 207th Street Yard and East New York Yards, running on the C, J, and Z, with one set assigned to the A. Ten cars are maintained at the 36th-38th Street Yard and used for work service, and two more are maintained at the Coney Island Yard and also used for work service.

As of July 2008, cars 3352–3353 are slated for preservation by the New York Transit Museum. These cars were the lead set on the R32s' premiere trip on September 9, 1964. Cars 3350–3351 have also been set aside for preservation by the Railway Preservation Corp., while G.E. cars 3594–3595 were moved to Floyd Bennett Field for anti-terrorism training.

The remaining cars have undergone SMS (Scheduled Maintenance Service) or a Life Extension Program, at a cost of $24 million, to extend their useful lives through 2017. They are expected to be replaced by the R179 fleet beginning in 2016.

Source: Wikipedia


----------



## Arnorian

Transit Time NYC’ Visualizes Subway Travel Times from Any Point in the City










http://project.wnyc.org/transit-time/


----------



## Fan Railer

So today (7/18/15), I had the chance to visit the Shore Line Trolley Museum up in Branford, CT for the first time. Here, I show you the operation of R9 1689. This is my first time operating, so cut me a little slack if not every aspect is perfect. The video is a little long, so I will give you some time markers below. We manage to hit 25 mph on the return trip on one of the straightaways before the yard limit, but the track quality lends to a lot of truck hunting at that speed. I really do suggest that if you have the time and money, that you try this out. It really is a fun experience and you do learn a lot. Enjoy the ride =)

Table of Contents (can you find my "Shave and a Haircut"s):
0:00 - 13:00 (shunting out of the yard and setting switches)
13:00 - 20:00 (outbound run)
21:00 - 38:10 (inbound run with pole directional changes and switch setting; we top 25 MPH on the straight section of track just before the yard limit).

The remainder of the video is RFW footage. Only the outbound trip ended up being viewable, as the camera on the second iPhone ended up screwing up the focus setting, but I have kept the inbound RFW footage for the audio factor. Credits to my mother and father for shooting this footage while I operated. Enjoy =)

One thing to note on the R9 at least is that inserting the B2 pin will decrease brake response/application times dramatically. Notice how for most of the run, I have the brake in the service application position for a good bit of time before the brakes start to grab, but as soon as Lou inserts the B2 pin, 1.5 seconds in the service application detente is enough to bring the train to a jarring halt.






Rest of the videos from this day: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWcHmTMSV7mifCon80vNxKPQC8azrqqs8


----------



## Nexis

*CBTC: Communications-Based Train Control*


----------



## Suburbanist

why haven't they build any other intermediate station on the 7-line extension? Looks it will be a long ride between the terminus and 42nd St/Times Sq.


----------



## dimlys1994

Suburbanist said:


> why haven't they build any other intermediate station on the 7-line extension? Looks it will be a long ride between the terminus and 42nd St/Times Sq.


Actually it is planned to build intermediate station at 10th Ave, but due to lack of supplies, it won't happened in foreseable future


----------



## Woonsocket54

dimlys1994 said:


> Actually it is planned to build intermediate station at 10th Ave, but due to lack of supplies, it won't happened in foreseable future


Another thing that won't happen in the foreseeable future is the opening of the 7-train extension, although this particular gullible blogger seems to think it might open in September :lol::lol::lol::lol:

http://secondavenuesagas.com/2015/07/20/mta-promises-to-open-7-line-extension-by-september-13/


----------



## 00Zy99

Last I checked, that was 

A) still in summer

B) still in Q3

So, yeah. Stop mocking things.


----------



## phoenixboi08

Woonsocket54 said:


> Another thing that won't happen in the foreseeable future is the opening of the 7-train extension, although this particular gullible blogger seems to think it might open in September :lol::lol::lol::lol:
> 
> http://secondavenuesagas.com/2015/07/20/mta-promises-to-open-7-line-extension-by-september-13/


Kabak is probably the only other person more cynical about those opening dates than you...which makes me wonder if you even read it.

In any case, it really doesn't matter when that extension opens (other than not building confidence in the MTA's ability to deliver), since it's real purpose is to serve future demand on the Far West Side. 

What _will_ be "make-or-break" will be ESA and the SAS. 

The 7 will open, when it opens...


----------



## Ultramatic

*With luck, 7 train hits 11th Ave. in September*

BY  Dan Rivoli  
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Tuesday, July 21, 2015, 1:05 AM









Anthony DelMundo/New York Daily News *Station on far West Side still needs its last inspections.*

A new 7 train station in Manhattan is weeks away from its long-awaited debut, an MTA official said Monday.
The delayed 7 train extension that brings the line to 34th St. and 11th Ave. is expected to open by Sept. 13, said Michael Horodniceanu, the president of MTA Capital Construction.
“The work is basically, pretty much complete, and we are actually running the last tests and in compliance of inspections,” he said.
Construction on the $2.4 billion city-funded project started in December 2007. The completion date has been pushed back several times.
...


----------



## Nexis

Downtown 6 Train leaving Grand Central - 42nd Street


Downtown 6 train departing Grand Central by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Woonsocket54

phoenixboi08 said:


> it really doesn't matter when that extension opens (other than not building confidence in the MTA's ability to deliver)


You think putting something in parentheses means it's not important?


----------



## 00Zy99

Woonsocket54 said:


> You think putting something in parentheses means it's not important?


Yes (from most perspectives) :lol::lol:


----------



## Nexis




----------



## Nexis

some Subway pix from yesterday


IRT West Side Line at Rector Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT West Side Line at 34th Street - Penn Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


Downtown 3 Train at 34th Street - Penn Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## phoenixboi08

Woonsocket54 said:


> You think putting something in parentheses means it's not important?


You think using a delimiter signifies unimportance...? 



Wikipedia said:


> Parentheses /pəˈrɛnθɨsiːz/ (singular, parenthesis /pəˈrɛnθɨsɨs/) (also called simply brackets, or round brackets, curved brackets, oval brackets, or, colloquially, parens /pəˈrɛnz/) contain material that serves to clarify, or is aside from the main point.[6] A milder effect may be obtained by using a pair of commas as the delimiter, though if the sentence contains commas for other purposes, visual confusion may result.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracket


----------



## mrsmartman

Skimming and scanning?


----------



## jay stew

With today's announcement about LaGuardia Airport getting rebuilt from the ground up, is there any chance of the N/Q getting an extension to LaGuardia?


----------



## mrsmartman

^^ Would be good for the whole city, the whole country and the whole world but not likely because of NIMBY.


----------



## WillBuild

mrsmartman said:


> ^^ Would be good for the whole city, the whole country and the whole world but not likely because of NIMBY.


The one thing I never understood about this is why they cannot replace the existing metal superstructure with concrete.

That would be a win/win for both NIMBYs and the rest of the city. Shortest path to Manhattan, and an actual reduction in noise for the neighborhood, as opposed to an increase.

Airtrain tracks are much more quiet than those old elevateds, after all.

We're talking only, what, a single block extension of residential area? Rebuilding a few blocks at the end of the BMT Astoria line is surely cheaper than building a whole new train to Flushing.


----------



## Nexis

The MTA had some blue screen issues on one of there monitors in Times Square the other day...


MTA is feeling the Blues ....in Midtown by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## mrsmartman

Apparently, the 4, 5 and 6 are the most frequently used subway services in North America.


----------



## Nexis

Howard Beach/JFK stop by Ron Kiley, on Flickr


----------



## mrsmartman

*B Express Train at W 4 St*



Minato ku said:


> 120.


----------



## mrsmartman

*Man Going Down To Subway In Manhattan*










*59th Street–Columbus Circle (New York City Subway) by David Shankbone*










*A-OK: There have been no successful terrorist attacks in new York City since 9/11, perhaps in part due to the NSA's '[email protected] program*









Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...09-NYC-subway-bombing-plot.html#ixzz3jQ4OJzOe 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

*Photo by Richard Perry/NYT*









*HAPPY 106TH BIRTHDAY, NEW YORK CITY SUBWAY*


----------



## JohnDee

just back from Paris and London. I can say that the NY subway looks bad in comparison. I suppose NY'ers aren't the most aesthetically interested lot.

And as for the railway stations:

Gare du Nord/Lyon/St. Pancras/Paddington >>> GCT/Penn

Wake up NY, it's a disgrace. And as for the airports, don't get me started.


----------



## bd popeye

_Low-V train on a fan trip 1979._



> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IRT Flushing Line
> Location: 111th Street
> Route: Fan Trip
> Car: Low-V (Museum Train) 5443
> Photo by: Doug Grotjahn
> Collection of: Joe Testagrose
> Date: 8/2/1979






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IRT Woodlawn Line
> Location: 170th Street
> Car: Low-V
> Photo by: Ed Davis, Sr.
> Collection of: David Pirmann
> Date: 9/1962






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IRT Woodlawn Line
> Location: 176th Street
> Car: Low-V
> Photo by: Ed Davis, Sr.
> Collection of: David Pirmann
> Date: 11/1960






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Location: 239th Street Yard
> Car: Low-V 5409
> Collection of: David Pirmann
> Date: 10/24/1964


----------



## Nouvellecosse

mrsmartman said:


> Apparently, the 4, 5 and 6 are the most frequently used subway services in North America.


Do we know how the ridership will be affected by the SAS?


----------



## JohnDee

The problem with the NYC subway compared to the other older subways (I'm just back from Paris and London), is that the stations were designed to be extremely cramped and cluttered with various support structures and low cielings. London and Paris were designed with taller ceilings and lack pillars and low-hanging support structures. This gives the NYC subway a bad reputation for comfort and gives it a bad name in the minds of foreigners. It is probably the ugliest metro system in the world because it appears few people give a poop about the way it looks inside. 

The modernization of the NY subway should take place as soon as possible. It should involve the removal of all metal/duct/support structures from the stations and completely modernize the interior fit outs with clean, bright modern designs. Each station should involve some air-cooling system. If not AC, then forced-air fans as the stations are like Hades in the summer and that is unacceptable for the financial capital of the developed world. The new SAS subway stations should be the model for all. The modernization should begin soon as the current stations are literally an embarrassment for the so called "greatest city" and are a black mark on its livability quotient. I don't want to hear excuses about political will/funding, etc. This is NYC, make it happen or watch other global cities eat your lunch as time goes along. The best talent are not going to put up with antique infrastructure for long given the competition abroad.


----------



## CNB30

^^ Couldn't Agree with you any more


----------



## Fan Railer

All fine and dandy; but tell that to the politicians and the MTA itself. Always complaining about not wanting to fund the agency or complaining about things being too expensive and there being a lack of funding.


----------



## mrsmartman

If possible, focus on some heavily used station.
GCT/Penn was considered to be efficient and environmentally friendly. GCT was redeveloped and Penn was built for grand.


----------



## Fabio1976

mrsmartman said:


> *Man Going Down To Subway In Manhattan*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *59th Street–Columbus Circle (New York City Subway) by David Shankbone*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *A-OK: There have been no successful terrorist attacks in new York City since 9/11, perhaps in part due to the NSA's '[email protected] program*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...09-NYC-subway-bombing-plot.html#ixzz3jQ4OJzOe
> Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
> 
> *Photo by Richard Perry/NYT*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *HAPPY 106TH BIRTHDAY, NEW YORK CITY SUBWAY*


Very narrow entrance to the 50th st station !!!!


----------



## Nexis

First Quarter 2015 Daily Ridership numbers for NYC Heavy Rail

Source : http://www.apta.com/resources/statistics/Documents/Ridership/2015-q1-ridership-APTA.pdf

New York City / Subway - 5.7 Million (2015)
Staten Island / Railway - 29,100 (2015)
New York / JFK Airtrain - 17,500 (2015)


----------



## Nexis

7 Extension to open on the 13th of September...


----------



## LeCom

7 Train offers probably the city's best train-based scenic ride opportunity for construction watchers


----------



## Woonsocket54

Nexis said:


> 7 Extension to open on the 13th of September...


We'll have to wait and see. It's not the first time they've announced a date, and it probably won't be the last. Unfortunately, the MTA has zero credibility on things like this. It's not time to celebrate just yet.


----------



## dixiadetie

LeCom said:


> 7 Train offers probably the city's best train-based scenic ride opportunity for construction watchers


many building are u/c !

New York is the city where new building never enough to occupied:cheers:


----------



## Nexis

From yesterday


Uptown 6 train at Grand Central by Corey Best, on Flickr


7 train at Times Square by Corey Best, on Flickr

Start your Engines....34th Street - Hudson Yards is coming soon....


Coming soon 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## mrsmartman

*IRT 191st Street*


----------



## Nexis

Rodalvesdepaula said:


> It is true.
> 
> A PATH extension from Secaucus to Hoboken is far better than a MTA Subway extension to New Jersey. With this, a new tunnel under North River would not be necessary.


Ummm , the New Tunnels under the Hudson are for Intercity, High Speed , Commuter rail. The PATH train tubes are in decent condition. I would rather see the 7 if it were extended into New Jersey connect to Hoboken Terminal with a few stops in Hoboken itself. The Bus Line between Hoboken & Midtown is over capacity and the PATH only goes aswell far as 33rd Street. A Extension to Secaucus is a waste due to the fact that all Rail Service terminates at Hoboken...


----------



## Tower Dude

Nexis said:


> Ummm , the New Tunnels under the Hudson are for Intercity, High Speed , Commuter rail. The PATH train tubes are in decent condition. I would rather see the 7 if it were extended into New Jersey connect to Hoboken Terminal with a few stops in Hoboken itself. The Bus Line between Hoboken & Midtown is over capacity and the PATH only goes aswell far as 33rd Street. A Extension to Secaucus is a waste due to the fact that all Rail Service terminates at Hoboken...



I think that the 7 extension is also contingent on the Port Authority Building New Bus terminal in Seacaucus. But ya it does seem at bit extensive, though I do think if it is built it would be as smart idea to extend the Path from Hoboken so I could piggy back on the extension and northern Jersey could benefit from that


----------



## Rodalvesdepaula

^^Yes, but 7 has a high ridership. So, I don't thing a 7 Line Extension for Hoboken could be a good idea... 

A new PATH Tunnel between Hoboken and 33th Street via Hudson Yards can be a nice alternative for 7 Extension to NJ. This PATH tube could have two new stations: 

- Hoboken 14th Street
- Hudson Yards (connection with MTA 7 Line)

With this, PATH trains to Midtown would operate in a "loop service", with a better service for riders. This new service could relieve Penn Station and some NJ Transit commuter rail services.


----------



## Nexis

Rodalvesdepaula said:


> ^^Yes, but 7 has a high ridership. So, I don't thing a 7 Line Extension for Hoboken could be a good idea...
> 
> A new PATH Tunnel between Hoboken and 33th Street via Hudson Yards can be a nice alternative for 7 Extension to NJ. This PATH tube could have two new stations:
> 
> - Hoboken 14th Street
> - Hudson Yards (connection with MTA 7 Line)
> 
> With this, PATH trains to Midtown would operate in a "loop service", with a better service for riders. This new service could relieve Penn Station and some NJ Transit commuter rail services.


Depends on what direction the Ridership is going , all the Ridership is Midtown bound... Most of the 7 Ridership is not Manhattan but in Queens so Hoboken wouldn't be an issue. I rather see everything funneled into Hoboken including the New Bus Terminal...Hoboken Terminal is massive and underused...


----------



## Rodalvesdepaula

Really, Hoboken could receive some NJT commuter buses that nowadays run to PABT.


----------



## Nexis

Rodalvesdepaula said:


> Really, Hoboken could receive some NJT commuter buses that nowadays run to PABT.


You could build a New Terminal on the Jersey City side which just off the New Jersey Turnpike. The 7 could run through the heart of Hoboken with a few stops before the Terminal.


----------



## Rodalvesdepaula

^^Yes, with this scheme:











With a bus terminal in Secaucus, PABT could be used only for Greyhound, Trailways, Peter Pan, NJT express buses, Academy, Megabus, dollar vans and some MTA express buses to Long Island.


----------



## Nexis

Rodalvesdepaula said:


> ^^Yes, with this scheme:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With a bus terminal in Secaucus, PABT could be used only for Greyhound, Trailways, Peter Pan, NJT express buses, Academy, Megabus, dollar vans and some MTA express buses to Long Island.


Nothing else should be built in Secaucus which is a swamp. MTA buses do not service Long Island anymore.


----------



## Rodalvesdepaula

Ah, and is there space on NJT tracks between Secaucus and Tonnelle Ave for MTA 7 line on surface?


----------



## phoenixboi08

Isn't the simpler solution to simply rationalize the PATH and NYC Subway (e.g. extend the 7 to Hoboken, and route some trains to the WTC and others to Newark, "Hoboken-33rd" could be designated the "8" and would be the line to get expanded into Hoboken)?

Then again, I don't know much about the actual scheduling, so I'm sure it would work. Just a thought exercise...









Stewart Mader


----------



## JohnDee

I don't think they move bus terminal to NJ. Ever.


----------



## Rodalvesdepaula

JohnDee said:


> I don't think they move bus terminal to NJ. Ever.


In this case, it would be a bus terminal in NJ for some commuter buses. 

NJT express commuter buses, Greyhound, Trailways, Coach USA, Peter Pan, dollar vans and Academy would continue to use PABT.


----------



## MrAronymous

The first 34 St. - Hudson Yards videos are up on youtube  
Very surprised to not see any 'stand right, move left' signs on the escalator, considering these are the longest escalators in the system.


----------



## streetscapeer

Massive New Hudson Yards Station Update by me... it was great!  (except the floors on the platform level I thought looked rather cheap)

Hudson Yards feels like a real neighborhood now!


----------



## Rodalvesdepaula

phoenixboi08 said:


> Isn't the simpler solution to simply rationalize the PATH and NYC Subway (e.g. extend the 7 to Hoboken, and route some trains to the WTC and others to Newark, "Hoboken-33rd" could be designated the "8" and would be the line to get expanded into Hoboken)?
> 
> Then again, I don't know much about the actual scheduling, so I'm sure it would work. Just a thought exercise...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stewart Mader



Hum, it's an another nice idea. 

With MTA 7 line and PATH, Hoboken could be the terminal for some NEC commuter trains, relieving Penn Station.


----------



## Rodalvesdepaula

streetscapeer said:


>


Why MTA didn't install PED's (Platform screen doors) in this new station?

Here in Sao Paulo, some subway stations have PED's and all stations will have these doors. 









http://www.insidesaopaulo.com/2011/06/working-time-of-yellow-line-metro.html


----------



## Nexis

Lack of funding and different rolling stocks operating along the same line.


----------



## Rodalvesdepaula

Ah, I understood. 

In this line, MTA operates R62A and R188 trainsets and they are different a little.


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Was about to say the same thing.


----------



## Rodalvesdepaula

By the way, MTA has a rolling stock with 15 types of trains: R142, R142A, R188, R62, R62A, R143, R160A, R160B, R68, R68A, R46, R44, R32 and R32A. They have 6 (IRT) or 8 (IND/BMT) doors per car. 

These trains can operate in any MTA subway line?


----------



## Nexis

Rodalvesdepaula said:


> By the way, MTA has a rolling stock with 15 types of trains: R142, R142A, R188, R62, R62A, R143, R160A, R160B, R68, R68A, R46, R44, R32 and R32A. They have 6 or 8 doors per car.
> 
> These trains can operate in any MTA subway line?


Well the R142/A , R188 , R62/A operate on the number lines or A division & R62/A , R143 , R160A/B , R68/A , R46 , R44 , R32/A operate on the letter lines or the B Division. The Width of B division cars is much wider then the A division hence the 2 will never overlap. Sometimes A division work trains use the B Division tracks...


----------



## Rodalvesdepaula

A division = IRT

B division = BMT/IND

Right?


----------



## Nexis

Rodalvesdepaula said:


> A division = IRT
> 
> B division = BMT/IND
> 
> Right?


Yes , and SIRR uses B division aswell...


----------



## bd popeye

Rodalvesdepaula said:


> By the way, MTA has a rolling stock with 15 types of trains: R142, R142A, R188, R62, R62A, R143, R160A, R160B, R68, R68A, R46, R44, R32 and R32A. They have 6 (IRT) or 8 (IND/BMT) doors per car.


A few photos of current NYC Subway Rolling stock..





> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IND 63rd Street
> Location: 21st Street/Queensbridge
> Route: F
> Car: R-160A (Option 1) (Alstom, 2008-2009, 5 car sets) 9237
> Photo by: David Pirmann
> Date: 4/10/2009






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IND Concourse Line
> Location: 205th Street
> Route: D
> Car: R-68 (Westinghouse-Amrail, 1986-1988)
> Photo by: DeAndre Burrell
> Date: 12/28/2006






> Country: United States
> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IND Fulton Street Line
> Location: Lefferts Boulevard
> Route: A wrong sign
> Car: R-46 (Pullman-Standard, 1974-75) 6244
> Photo by: Wilfredo Castillo
> Date: 5/25/2012






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IND Queens Boulevard Line
> Location: 71st/Continental Aves./Forest Hills
> Route: GG
> Car: R-42 (St. Louis, 1969-1970) 4573
> Photo by: Doug Grotjahn
> Collection of: Joe Testagrose
> Date: 10/22/1976






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IRT Woodlawn Line
> Location: 149th Street/Grand Concourse
> Car: R-142A (Option Order, Kawasaki, 2002-2003) 7675
> Photo by: David Tropiansky
> Date: 12/26/2010
> Notes: Blizzard of 2010






> Country: United States
> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IRT West Side Line
> Location: 242nd Street/Van Cortlandt Park
> Route: 1
> Car: R-62A (Bombardier, 1984-1987) 2321
> Photo by: John Dooley
> Date: 9/22/2011






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IND 8th Avenue Line
> Location: 181st Street
> Route: A
> Car: R-44 (St. Louis, 1971-73)
> Photo by: David Pirmann
> Date: 9/10/2007






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IND 8th Avenue Line
> Location: 168th Street
> Route: A
> Car: R-32 (Budd, 1964) 3518
> Photo by: Glenn L. Rowe
> Date: 11/10/2009


----------



## Rodalvesdepaula

The difference between the widths of the trains is clearly visible.


----------



## bd popeye

Rodalvesdepaula said:


> The difference between the widths of the trains is clearly visible.


very true.. Division A the IRT original construction dates back to 1900 and opening in 1904..111 years ago......

The First NYC Subway History


----------



## bd popeye

Rodalvesdepaula said:


> The difference between the widths of the trains is clearly visible.


I just found this..

NYC Subway FAQ's



> The trains of the BMT and IND lines are longer and wider than those of the IRT lines. Therefore an BMT/IND style train cannot fit into an IRT tunnel. An IRT train CAN fit into a BMT/IND tunnel but since it is narrower the distance from car to platform is unsafe. Cars from the IRT division are moved using BMT/IND tracks to Coney Island Overhaul Shops for major maintenance on a regular basis.


----------



## Rodalvesdepaula

That's true.

The IRT, BMT and IND were built by different companies. Nowadays, It's very, very expensive to standardize all MTA subway lines for all trainsets. The advantages don't compensate the investment.

Even Sao Paulo subway is not standardized. Some lines have third rail and Irish gauge (1600 mm), but new lines have overhead wires, standard gauge and driverless trains. For example, a Line 4 train (standard gauge and driverless) can't operate in Line 3 (third rail and 1600 mm gauge) and vice versa.


----------



## mrsmartman

A radical idea for MTA to secure funding is to transfer the development rights of Hudson Yards to MTA.


----------



## dimlys1994

Photo album from 7 Subway extension by Second Ave. Sagas headmaster:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/benyankee/sets/72157658605766385


----------



## dimlys1994

Videos from MTA:


----------



## dimlys1994

And again from MTA, public hearing of MTA's projects:


----------



## dimlys1994

From MTA:


34 St-Hudson Yards Opening by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

Escalators are already broken...


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Seriously? Smh.


----------



## 00Zy99

HARTride 2012 said:


> ^^
> Seriously? Smh.


Smh? What does that stand for?


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Jargon for "shake my head". 

Which here, the equivalent would be hno:


----------



## MrAronymous

Aparently it's very normal for new escalators to be broken. See it all the time.


----------



## Rodalvesdepaula

^^It is true.

Technical problems at the beginning are very common.


----------



## Nexis

It also smelled like Sewage in parts of the stations upper areas...im not sure if that's related to the nearby construction. The Station is not connected to 34th Street but rather 35th Street...


----------



## mrsmartman




----------



## Nexis

mrsmartman said:


>


Why are you posting a tweet from August , a few days after the opening?


----------



## Nexis

*NYC Subway: IRT (7) Trains & The New W. 34th St - 11th Ave (Hudson Yd)*


----------



## mrsmartman

^^ To celebrate the grand opening of the new subway station.

New York Subway in CIM 2:


----------



## Nexis

mrsmartman said:


> ^^ To celebrate the grand opening of the new subway station.


Abit strange to post that tweet though....I can understand something from today or yesterday....but 3 weeks ago is a bit of a stretch...


----------



## Woonsocket54

New station off to a great start.

Congratulations to NYC! USA does it best.

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/201...n-closed-briefly-due-signal-problems-mta-says


----------



## dimlys1994

Two more videos:


----------



## Nexis

From this week....

*34th Street - Hudson Yards....*


IRT Flushing Line at 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Flushing Line at 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Flushing Line at 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Flushing Line at 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Flushing Line at 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Flushing Line at 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Flushing Line at 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Flushing Line at 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Flushing Line at 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Flushing Line at 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Flushing Line at 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Flushing Line at 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Flushing Line at 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Flushing Line at 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Alargule

Beautiful station, love the oculus and the spaciousness of the mezzanine. But why does the platform level have to look so...I don't know...tacky? Looks like it has been in use for decades already. Dirt, grime...for 2+ billion dollars I would have expected a bit more than grey tiles, fluorescent lighting, visible cables hanging from the ceiling and stairs (where are the escalators?).


----------



## Nexis

*IND/BMT 63rd Street Line​*
*Roosevelt Island​*

IND/BMT 63rd Street Line at Roosevelt Island Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND/BMT 63rd Street Line at Roosevelt Island Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND/BMT 63rd Street Line at Roosevelt Island Station by Corey Best, on Flickr

*Lexington Avenue – 63rd Street​*

IND/BMT 63rd Street Line at Lexington Avenue – 63rd Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND/BMT 63rd Street Line at Lexington Avenue – 63rd Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND/BMT 63rd Street Line at Lexington Avenue – 63rd Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND/BMT 63rd Street Line at Lexington Avenue – 63rd Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Galiciusz

Alargule said:


> Beautiful station, love the oculus and the spaciousness of the mezzanine. But why does the platform level have to look so...I don't know...tacky? Looks like it has been in use for decades already. Dirt, grime...for 2+ billion dollars I would have expected a bit more than grey tiles, fluorescent lighting, visible cables hanging from the ceiling and stairs (where are the escalators?).


Exactly - and terrible inclined elevators hno:hno:hno:


----------



## Miami High Rise

Galiciusz said:


> Exactly - and terrible inclined elevators hno:hno:hno:


Even when you remove the long waiting time, they are slower than the escalators' ground speed. And they make an extra safe/slow stop at the top, hesitating several times before finally opening the door. So not only was it cheaper than a real elevator, it is also less useful. It only has the neat factor going for it.


----------



## Nexis

*IND Sixth Avenue Line at 57th Street Station​*

IND Sixth Avenue Line at 57th Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND Sixth Avenue Line at 57th Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND Sixth Avenue Line at 57th Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND Sixth Avenue Line at 57th Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND Sixth Avenue Line at 57th Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

*BMT Broadway Line at Fifth Avenue – 59th Street*​

BMT Broadway Line at Fifth Avenue – 59th Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


BMT Broadway Line at Fifth Avenue – 59th Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


BMT Broadway Line at Fifth Avenue – 59th Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


BMT Broadway Line at Fifth Avenue – 59th Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


BMT Broadway Line at Fifth Avenue – 59th Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis




----------



## dimlys1994

SAS September update, 72nd St station:


Second Avenue Subway Update: 72nd Street Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update: 72nd Street Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update: 72nd Street Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update: 72nd Street Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update: 72nd Street Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update: 72nd Street Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update: 72nd Street Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update: 72nd Street Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update: 72nd Street Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update: 72nd Street Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Second Avenue Subway Update: 72nd Street Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

*Subway Tour: NEW 34 St - Hudson Yards Station*


----------



## Miami High Rise

That was a good video tour. Mine came out dogshit quality I think because I recorded it in 480 YouTube selected it for extra compression which makes it look worse than it already was by far. I tried a couple different ways to upload it but it didn't matter. It's funny how high quality videos by popular users, where a quality downgrade through compression would be most noticable, are nearly broadcast quality where avg Joe user videos are shat on.


----------



## jay stew

Miami High Rise said:


> That was a good video tour. Mine came out dogshit quality I think because I recorded it in 480 YouTube selected it for extra compression which makes it look worse than it already was by far. I tried a couple different ways to upload it but it didn't matter. It's funny how high quality videos by popular users, where a quality downgrade through compression would be most noticable, are nearly broadcast quality where avg Joe user videos are shat on.


I love how they were legitimately excited about being the first train to Hudson Yards.


----------



## Nexis

jay stew said:


> I love how they were legitimately excited about being the first train to Hudson Yards.


You should see how excited they get when they roll the holiday trains out.


----------



## luke_bonn

Cool!


----------



## mrsmartman

*2015 – 2019 MTA Capital Program*


----------



## mrsmartman

Should CBTC on 6th Av be postponed in favor of CBTC on 8th Av?


----------



## Tower Dude

mrsmartman said:


> Should CBTC on 6th Av be postponed in favor of CBTC on 8th Av?


A-train is almost as bad as the 4/5. I say aye.


----------



## Nexis

Tower Dude said:


> A-train is almost as bad as the 4/5. I say aye.


N/Q/R are far worse then the A/C/E....


----------



## mrsmartman

bd popeye said:


> Country: United States
> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IRT East Side Line
> Location: Bowling Green
> Route: S
> Car: R-12 (American Car & Foundry, 1948) 5706/5703
> Collection of: George Conrad Collection
> Date: 10/18/1964












_R-12 5703 assigned to the Bowling Green-South Ferry Shuttle, seen here in December 1970 at Bowling Green. Photo by Doug Grotjahn, collection of Joe Testagrose._

http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/A_History_of_the_IRT_SMEE_Cars,_1948-1964


----------



## lsg97

mrsmartman said:


> *2015 – 2019 MTA Capital Program*


Does anybody know when deliveries for the R211s are scheduled to commence? The rendering looked pretty badass! :cheers:


----------



## Miami High Rise

The question seems to be, will they end up being delivered before full R179 rollout?


----------



## Tower Dude

I bet money on that!


----------



## 00Zy99

lsg97 said:


> Does anybody know when deliveries for the R211s are scheduled to commence? The rendering looked pretty badass! :cheers:


Do you have a link on that rendering?


----------



## lsg97

00Zy99 said:


> Do you have a link on that rendering?


Lower left corner, page 20 of the MTA's .pdf

I'm limited to mobile currently otherwise I'd be able to upload it separately, sorry ...


----------



## Miami High Rise

G image search r211 the one in the PDF is tiny.


----------



## Nexis

This is....Queensboro Plaza


An Early Evening Stroll in Long Island City - Queens,New York by Corey Best, on Flickr


An Early Evening Stroll in Long Island City - Queens,New York by Corey Best, on Flickr


An Early Evening Stroll in Long Island City - Queens,New York by Corey Best, on Flickr


An Early Evening Stroll in Long Island City - Queens,New York by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## mrsmartman

*Best Express runs*



MHV9218 said:


> (2) and (3) southbound from 96 to 72, 72 to 42, and even 34 to 14 are a great experience. They may not be the fastest runs of all, but you can hit up the upper-40s with a good T/O on some of those sections, and the moderate curves encountered make it a great ride.


http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/48257-best-express-runs/


----------



## towerpower123

New R179 trains








http://us.bombardier.com/us/press_release_04062012.htm

Bombardier to Supply 300 New Subway Cars for New York City Transit


> Bombardier Transportation announced today that it has signed a contract for 300 subway cars with the Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) to be delivered to New York City Transit (NYCT). The order is valued at approximately $599 million US ($623 million CDN, 482 million euro). The MTA Board of Directors approved the award of a contract to Bombardier on March 28, 2012.
> 
> The new cars (known as the R179 series) will be built at Bombardier’s fully-integrated manufacturing plant in Plattsburgh, New York. The Plattsburgh facility is located in New York State’s North Country region and is Bombardier’s Centre of Excellence for rolling stock production in the United States. In operation since 1995, it has produced more than 3,000 passenger rail cars and locomotives now in service across the United States.
> 
> The R179 cars will incorporate state-of-the-art technology from Bombardier. The cars will be powered by highly reliable BOMBARDIER MITRAC propulsion equipment with new, energy-efficient inverters. The cars' onboard systems will be integrated by Bombardier's industry-leading MITRAC train control and management system with internet protocol technology. The propulsion and control equipment will be supplied by Bombardier's Propulsion and Controls business unit in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
> 
> Delivery of 10 pilot cars is scheduled to take place in the third quarter of 2014, followed by delivery of the remaining production series cars between mid-2015 and early 2017.


----------



## Alargule

Whoa, could that picture be any bigger please?


----------



## Nexis

^ Haha , they look like the same boring crap we have operating now...


----------



## mrsmartman

*Best Express runs*



CenSin said:


> The best expresses, in my opinion, are the IRT expresses. They were built before transit planners started with the consecutive-express-stations nonsense. On a weekday (when frequency is high), I can usually transfer to an express train, and catch up to another local train ahead 3~4 express stations down the line.


http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/48257-best-express-runs/


----------



## bd popeye

Alargule said:


> Whoa, could that picture be any bigger please?


Yea.. most forums these days automatically re-size the photos....and don't allow hotlinking of photos. Not here at SSC...they need to fix that along with the 15 second delay on the like button....

By the way SSC is still running vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1hno:..that is OLD for the internet.



Nexis said:


> Haha , they look like the same boring crap we have operating now...


How would you like the trains to look? Anything special? Just curious.

thank you!


----------



## mrsmartman

*IRT Bway-7th Av Line: Uptown R62 (1) Express from 14 St to 34 St-Penn Station*


----------



## webeagle12

Nexis said:


> ^ Haha , they look like the same boring crap we have operating now...


Couldn't put myself any better. :lol:


----------



## bd popeye

Nexis said:


> ^ Haha , they look like the same boring crap we have operating now...


And...



webeagle12 said:


> Couldn't put myself any better. :lol:


Once again...How would you both like the trains to look? Anything special? Just curious.

thank you!


----------



## Miami High Rise

I think they're expecting them to look like this:


----------



## MrAronymous

Well this would be a nice start.










Then when you would actually put effort into the design it you could end up with a finished product like this.


----------



## 00Zy99

You guys do realize that the R179 is effectively an add-on order to the previous orders, right?


----------



## Miami High Rise

Then why have they been so delayed and bogged down with manufacturing issues?


----------



## 00Zy99

Miami High Rise said:


> Then why have they been so delayed and bogged down with manufacturing issues?


The few things that ARE new are glitching up the works as they try to re-tool from the last order.


----------



## Nexis

Some Subway Photos I took yesterday


R Train at Cordlandt Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


R Train at Cordlandt Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


7 at Times Square by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## mrsmartman

*Platform Controller Program*






Learn about the Platform Controller Program that aims to help speed subway service along our busiest subway lines.


----------



## webeagle12

mrsmartman said:


> *Platform Controller Program*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Learn about the Platform Controller Program that aims to help speed subway service along our busiest subway lines.


Really? this is biggest joke ever. Is this best we can do in 21st century?


----------



## Miami High Rise

Yeah I was surprised to see all likes and no dislikes.


----------



## Nexis

We also have announcements going off when the train enters the station... Please , step aside and let the passengers off the train...


----------



## Woonsocket54

I wonder who was responsible for installing defective signals on NYC's newest subway stretch










http://www.mta.info/status/subway/7/24133895


----------



## mrsmartman

*R142 4 Express train passing by Bleecker Street*


----------



## Buffaboy

Recently I have been getting addicted to NYC subway videos, I have never seen a full scale video detailing how the subway operates or a ride along until now.

I really like this channel called Luftschlange. It posts nice videos of the system.

Here is its latest video:


----------



## mrsmartman

*NYC Subway: Queensboro and Queens Plazas*


----------



## mrsmartman

In 1925, the Brooklyn-Manhattan Transit Corporation (BMT) introduced a three-car articulated unit called the D-Type Triplex. The design meant passengers could walk from one car to another in the unit through an enclosed passageway. They carried more passengers and had fewer moving parts, making them efficient and easier to maintain.

Source: mta.info


----------



## nomnolence

LSE Cities has put together this transport map of NYC as part of it's Urban Age project. Ferries and cable cars still to be added, but it'd be great if anyone has any suggestions for improvements/corrections?

https://urbanage.lsecities.net/data/infrastructure-of-mobility-new-york-city


----------



## Nexis

What is LSE Cities?


----------



## mrsmartman




----------



## Miami High Rise

Buffaboy said:


> Recently I have been getting addicted to NYC subway videos, I have never seen a full scale video detailing how the subway operates or a ride along until now.


Don't start dreaming buffaboy, your city is slowly turning it's LRT back into a road :bash:
and your cousins in Rochester fill in their subway hno:

All in good humour


----------



## Nexis

*IND Eighth Avenue Line at High Street - Brooklyn Bridge *​

IND Fulton Avenue Line at High Street in Brooklyn,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND Fulton Avenue Line at High Street in Brooklyn,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND Fulton Avenue Line at High Street in Brooklyn,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND Fulton Avenue Line at High Street in Brooklyn,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND Fulton Avenue Line at High Street in Brooklyn,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND Fulton Avenue Line at High Street in Brooklyn,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND Fulton Avenue Line at High Street in Brooklyn,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND Fulton Avenue Line at High Street in Brooklyn,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND Fulton Avenue Line at High Street in Brooklyn,NY by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Buffaboy

Miami High Rise said:


> Don't start dreaming buffaboy, your city is slowly turning it's LRT back into a road :bash:
> and your cousins in Rochester fill in their subway hno:
> 
> All in good humour


What they SHOULD do is disregard the water table and build the subway underneath it. They _should _ engineer a fix for it, but they won't.


----------



## Miami High Rise

I don't follow. For Buffalo to move the metro below grade to have a full road and transit on the same alignment, or Rochester to go below the already under street level Erie canal? I've never heard of either being a thing. Or are you retorting with Miami, where the real water table problems are?


----------



## Nexis

webeagle12 said:


> Really? this is biggest joke ever. Is this best we can do in 21st century?


The PATH has 1 or 2 useless people staffed on the platform at each station...paided rather well considering they do nothing...


----------



## rakcancer

MTA Will Test Open Subway Cars as the Subway of the Future

http://spoilednyc.com/2015/12/04/mta-single-subway-car-future/


----------



## Miami High Rise

It really makes a difference even a single digit increase in capacity is significant multiplied over all those higher frequency long trains. London is looking into it too. The new "Miami Subway" (Metrorail) cars being built I don't believe will have this. Not sure why. Maybe because the exta capacity is far from needed and wouldn't justify the extra cost. It really opens up the atmosphere and makes getting away from the bumless joes easier and a greater sense of safety in numbers with more people in the same contiguous space on that almost empty late night train. Patrolling trains will be easier and more successful for same reason that they won't have to skip between cars like the buskers at stations.


----------



## webeagle12

rakcancer said:


> MTA Will Test Open Subway Cars as the Subway of the Future
> 
> http://spoilednyc.com/2015/12/04/mta-single-subway-car-future/


20 years after Europe we finally catching on


----------



## Buffaboy

Miami High Rise said:


> I don't follow. For Buffalo to move the metro below grade to have a full road and transit on the same alignment, or Rochester to go below the already under street level Erie canal? I've never heard of either being a thing. Or are you retorting with Miami, where the real water table problems are?


No, when the Metro Rail subway was first proposed, the lower 1/3 wasn't feasible:



> *Underground LRRT Operations*
> 
> This alternative would involve reconstructing the existing aboveground LRRT system in the Project Area to an underground system and restoring two-way traffic above it along Main Street.
> 
> This alternative was considered in the original EIS for the Buffalo LRRT system and eliminated because of the high water table and structurally unstable subsurface soils in this area. Further, it would incur significant costs for utility relocations and underpinning the Marine Midland (renamed HSBC) Tower (USDOT, 1977). These same conditions would still apply today. For these reasons, the alternative of undergrounding the LRRT system through the Project Area was eliminated from further consideration.


Page 30: http://www.nfta.com/pdfs/COBMulti-Modal Access.pdf


----------



## Brice

webeagle12 said:


> 20 years after Europe we finally catch on



yeah 


the triple pole is still 10 years away...


----------



## rakcancer

Miami High Rise said:


> It really opens up the atmosphere and makes getting away from the bumless joes easier


I think that would be actually the only disadvantage of long, open trains. Some homeless people in NYC subway stinks so much that nobody wants to ride in the same car with them. Can you imagine the same situation in that new open train? It will be like stretch limo on tracks for one hobo


----------



## Tower Dude

Well even more incentive for the city to do its damnedest about the rising homeless problem and as afore mentioned allows for easier car patrols


----------



## jay stew

Toronto has open gangways on the Yonge-University Line.


----------



## albert0123

Or are you retorting with Miami said:


> in all of Holland the water table is no problem. The Amsterdam Subway tunnels and Rotterdam Subway tunnels are well below the water table, no problem, no leakage. Somewhat more expensive to build, but when well enigineered no problem. In Miami it should not be a problem at all.


----------



## Miami High Rise

But the soil is wimpier and the "bedrock" is porous limestone the only thing that pierces the 0ft AMSL level without saltwater intrusion actually being there is the Biscayne Aquifer and they are worried about that going at some point. In Holland they can build ***** and the water doesn't come up through the ground as it does/would in Miami Beach/Miami. So the subway wouldn't have to be built to maybe be holding back liquid water in some places some time it would literally have to be built like an underwater tunnel sitting on the seabed. It has never been cited as a serious consideration nobody has questioned that it wouldn't be feasible within reason. Remember this is Florida where public transport is sad and underutilized the last thing they're going to get is the best of the best. Even NYC doesn't get that. They've got the best of '04 technology. 



1904...


----------



## Alargule

Shall we return a few states back north? I'm sure this conversation can also be continued in the appropiate topic.


----------



## Buffaboy

Brice said:


> yeah
> 
> 
> the triple pole is still 10 years away...


Those seats look _veery comfortable_ :yawn:.


----------



## jay stew

148140736


----------



## Nexis

*This is....Marcy Avenue*​

This is....Marcy Avenue in Williamsburg - Brooklyn by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is....Marcy Avenue in Williamsburg - Brooklyn by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is....Marcy Avenue in Williamsburg - Brooklyn by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is....Marcy Avenue in Williamsburg - Brooklyn by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is....Marcy Avenue in Williamsburg - Brooklyn by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## bodegavendetta

*MTA New York City Transit Records Highest Modern One-Day Subway Ridership*



> Fifteen Days in October 2015 with Over 6 Million Riders
> 
> Preliminary data shows the Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) reached *a new modern record when 6,217,621 customers entered the MTA New York City Transit subway system on Thursday, October 29, 2015.* The subway system carried 50,000 more customers that day than at its previous record peak, just one year earlier.
> 
> “The relentless growth in subway ridership shows how this century-old network is critical to New York’s future,” said MTA Chairman and CEO Thomas F. Prendergast. “Our challenge is to maintain and improve the subways even as growing ridership puts more demands on the system. We are doing it thanks to the MTA Capital Program, which will allow us to bring meaningful improvements to our customers, such as real time arrival information on the lettered subway lines, cleaner and brighter stations with new technology like Help Points, modern signal systems, and almost 1,000 new subway cars.”
> 
> The new modern ridership record was set on the last Thursday in October, traditionally one of the system’s busiest days. *The previous record of 6,167,165 was set Thursday, October 30, 2014. *The new record day was one of five days in October when ridership exceeded the prior year’s record, and *was one of 15 weekdays with ridership above 6 million.* Daily subway ridership records have been kept since 1985, but the new record is believed to be the highest since the late 1940s.
> 
> October 2015’s average weekday subway ridership of 5.974 million was the highest of any month in over 45 years, and was 1.4% higher than October 2014. Approximately 80,000 more customers rode the subway on an average October 2015 weekday than just a year earlier – enough to fill more than 50 fully-loaded subway trains.
> *
> Ridership surged on the weekends as well,* with the average weekend ridership higher than any October in over 45 years. On Saturday, October 31, 2015, the day of the Village Halloween Parade and a Mets World Series game, 3,730,881 customers rode the subway – making it the fifth-busiest Saturday on recent record.
> 
> Ridership continues to spike in Northern Brooklyn, where portions of the A SubwayC SubwayG SubwayJ SubwayM SubwayZ Subway and L Subway lines have added a weekday average of 14,733 customers since September 2014. The system has seen substantial growth south of Chambers St in Lower Manhattan, with more than new 12,357 daily customers added in the last year as new commercial and office continues to open in the area.
> 
> Between 2010 and 2014, the subway system has added 440,638 daily customers, roughly the equivalent of the entire population of mid-sized cities like Miami, Fla. or Raleigh, N.C. More customers have led to additional crowding on some lines, creating conditions in which trains are more likely to be delayed, and delayed trains in turn affect more customers than in the past.
> 
> As ridership continues to soar, performing necessary maintenance and improvement work while providing good service has become a growing challenge. Work that is typically done overnight and on weekends now affects more riders as ridership grows during these off-peak hours.
> 
> The MTA has introduced short-term measures to improve train service this year, including Platform Controllers at strategic locations to help move customers on and off trains quickly, “step aside” boxes to encourage letting customers off the train before boarding, and staging more maintenance crews in locations to respond to problems quickly.
> 
> In the longer term, the MTA is adding subway capacity by installing communications-based train control (CBTC), a modern signaling system that allows trains to operate more closely together. CBTC is in operation on the L Subway line and is being installed on the 7 Subway line, while the next MTA Capital Program will expand CBTC work on the Queens Blvd E SubwayF SubwayM SubwayR Subway and 8 Av A SubwayC SubwayE Subway lines in Manhattan and the F Subway line in Brooklyn.
> 
> When the first phase of the Second Avenue Subway is completed next year, it will serve more than 200,000 customers each day and decrease crowding on the adjacent 4 Subway5 Subway6 Subway lines by as much as 13%, or 23,500 fewer customers on an average weekday.


http://www.mta.info/press-release/n...cords-highest-modern-one-day-subway-ridership


----------



## mrsmartman

I think new subway lines should be built in Queens and Williamsburg after SAS.


----------



## Tower Dude

Utica is next on the docket, and I really hope the city build is as an extension of the Fulton Street line.


----------



## mrsmartman

Is there any plan for 75-foot subway car in the future?










Jamaica/179th St-bound MTA NYC Subway F train of R160 cars arriving at Avenue P.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R160_(New_York_City_Subway_car)


----------



## mrsmartman

Watching WNYC’s “Live Subway Agony Index” as the downtown 6X goes into meltdown is kind of awesome. So many UGGGHHHs. 

If you’ve never seen this before, it’s a service that pulls real-time MTA data for the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 6x and converts it into emoji that encapsulates the current feelings of passengers at that station. Simple but effective!

Source: WNYC Data News Team

http://transitmaps.tumblr.com/post/131622576780/ny-emoji-index


----------



## mrsmartman

*Seamless Interchange*

e.g. one seat ride to NY PRR Station (through train)

*LIRR <-> IRT*










http://www.realtransit.org/nec17.php


----------



## Nexis

Please resize the first photo , i'm not sure I understand the second post?


----------



## Nexis

*Under Times Square & Another Straight Flush On The 7*






*A Peek At Hudson Yards & A Straight Flush On The 7*


----------



## phoenixboi08

Nexis said:


> Please resize the first photo , i'm not sure I understand the second post?


I think he's highlighting the inclusion of the 7 extension in Gateway...didn't know that was still planned.


----------



## nikola91srb

i love NYC, but its subway system resembles to some from 3rd world country!


----------



## webeagle12

nikola91srb said:


> i love NYC, but its subway system resembles to some from 3rd world country!


Cant put it any better


----------



## Nexis

nikola91srb said:


> i love NYC, but its subway system resembles to some from 3rd world country!


It was built cheaply and quick... Its a very efficient system...and there slowly upgrading it..


----------



## bd popeye

nikola91srb said:


> i love NYC, but its subway system resembles to some from 3rd world country!


The NYC subway system operates 24/7/365..let's see some third world country do that. How many other metros in this world can make that statement?

..and I never stated it was perfect....nope... The NYC subway system just runs and runs and runs 24/7/365.


----------



## CNB30

Apparently Sweden is a 3rd World country, so that's not necessarily a bad thing 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World


----------



## Miami High Rise

Just a bit slower than its falling apart. It's like saying I make a payment on my card every month but a payment less than the fraction of how much the balance is divided by how many months before interest kicks in if it's not paid off by that point. I'm _always_ paying for it (in time units of months) but still slipping farther behind each month. The only major wholesale upgrades are the east and west side access, bit that's totally new ground, not improvements to the existing. Of course that would be a good thing if the rest was in good shape and there was nothing else to do. But adding more when the rest is deteriorating is like dumping more burden on a strained caretaker and saying the extra "practice" and experience will make them more skilled at it. It's like spreading out a thin ration wider and saying, "there now more people are fed," but everyone is eating less. Politicians already play roullette with this stuff with only limited resources. There's only so much water you can add before it's not soap anymore.

Merry Christmas New York City Subway we love more than we let on but we'll have world peace long before you get New Yorkers to not complain.


----------



## phoenixboi08

nikola91srb said:


> i love NYC, but its subway system resembles to some from 3rd world country!


Unlikely. All of the, supposed "Third World" countries that have built metros, have modern systems. NYC does not. It has a heritage system. 

That doesn't make it "Third World," it makes it old. 

This, along with "Crumbling Infrastructure" is one of those cute platitudes that someone, somewhere uttered, and everyone else felt they just had to repeat.

Ultimately, though, it's hollow, since all the biases inherent in the phrase kind of render it meaningless.

So, I'll just assume you mean it's old, dirty, unreliable.


----------



## Abhishek901

nikola91srb said:


> i love NYC, but its subway system resembles to some from 3rd world country!


Subway systems in developing countries are far better than NYC and many other subways in developed countries because they are new.


----------



## Nexis




----------



## mrsmartman

New Yorkers are surprisingly tolerant despite often being perceived as rude and impatient by the rest of the nation.


----------



## MrAronymous

What does that have to do with anything in this thread? JF Christ.


----------



## mrsmartman

Subway is the lifeblood of the city, as some people might consider.


----------



## Tower Dude

Nexis said:


> and Phase 4 could use a redesign..


EXETENTION TO BROOKLYN LINKING IT TO UTICA AVENUE!!!


----------



## 00Zy99

Tower Dude said:


> EXETENTION TO BROOKLYN LINKING IT TO UTICA AVENUE!!!


Extend it down and around back up to the E-line terminus at the WTC. That will fit the missing link from where the Els were demolished.


----------



## Nexis

Tower Dude said:


> EXETENTION TO BROOKLYN LINKING IT TO UTICA AVENUE!!!


I was going to saw use the J train alignment instead of building a new tunnel... I think with rising water levels in lower Manhattan to have the alignment so close to the river is stupid... I think it should continue into Brookyln via the R train & A train to Utica Ave and a new line under Utica Ave to Flatlands. I would also like to see the C train extended to Ozone Park-Lefferts Boulevard and the line itself extended to York College in Jamaica.


----------



## Tower Dude

Fascinating!
Are you suggesting it piggy backs onto the Nassau street line, then piggy backs through the Montague tunnels, then express on the Fulton line to Utica avenue and then a new line on Utica. 
If so I did not think of that, I thought that creating a second line to service Southern and North-east Queens, that would piggy back thought the Roosevelt Island tunnels and join up at 55th St and Travel down to Hanover Square, while the T service would divert and join up with the F train Again at East Broadway piggy back on the Rutger St. Tunnels and then Switch over to the Fulton line at Jay St.-Metro Tech leading then run express to Utica Avenue leading to its own line there.

The foreseeable problems with both scenarios, 
A) The city deciding not to use the Fulton Line as the starting point for the Utica Ave Line and instead electing to extend the Eastern Parkway line in some fashion
B) The Tower Dude Proposal will require much more tunneling done in Manhattan also for new lines in Queens which will meet resistance from queens residence and the MTA because of the length of the new Route with the future addition of a Bronx spur finally it would take up capacity at Jay street, in the Rutger St. Tubes, and on the Culver lines; and for the sake argument if the city decides on a subway extension to SI and uses the IND's Second System Plan as a base board it would require the capacity on all of the aforementioned as the (potential) Fort Hamilton line and Narrows tubes would need the capacity.
C) The Nexis Plan would require less tunneling in Manhattan more in Brooklyn though the lack of "Shiny New" Stations in Lower Manhattan may (will) lead to cries and wailing about the disparate spending of the MTA leading to resistance of that plan. Also a connection from the BMT Fourth Avenue line to the Fulton St. Line could be very complicated, though a new station in downtown Brooklyn might be a good idea.


----------



## mrsmartman

The Fulton Center should be marble plated.


----------



## Nexis

mrsmartman said:


> The Fulton Center should be marble plated.


Why?


----------



## mrsmartman

MTA has built such a large station. They should find some artificial marble instead of tiles. It would improve the perceived cost effectiveness of the project.

*Edit*: Just like those art deco buildings in the old days.


----------



## Nexis

mrsmartman said:


> MTA has built such a large station. They should find some artificial marble instead of tiles. It would improve the perceived cost effectiveness of the project.


The project is completed though , so all that would be is a waste of money.


----------



## mrsmartman

1Boston said:


> Yeah, just looking at the NYC mta website now, it looks like a cheap online shopping site where I'd probably get a virus from clicking on anything. Paris has a pretty ugly one as well. I really like montreal's (http://www.stm.info/en) website.


http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=219956

The bottom section looks a bit messy.
The navigation bar can be more attractive.
Perhaps they can also add the full name along with the MTA logo.


----------



## CCs77

I have one question, with the 7 train extension, the NYC Subway has reached now 375.8 km (233.5 mi) of routes. But in the past there were more EL lines, some were replaced with subway lines, some other not, but also some new subway lines have been built. Does anybody know if sometime in the past the system was longer? If so, how long and when was the peak of lenght.


----------



## 00Zy99

CCs77 said:


> I have one question, with the 7 train extension, the NYC Subway has reached now 375.8 km (233.5 mi) of routes. But in the past there were more EL lines, some were replaced with subway lines, some other not, but also some new subway lines have been built. Does anybody know if sometime in the past the system was longer? If so, how long and when was the peak of lenght.


I suspect that the peak was reached about 1938, before the demolition of the 6th Avenue EL.


----------



## Miami High Rise

To be fair though to help you sleep at night, one mile of Subway is worth about two miles of el in qual and quantitative value.


----------



## 00Zy99

Miami High Rise said:


> To be fair though to help you sleep at night, one mile of Subway is worth about two miles of el in qual and quantitative value.


Depends on the Subway and El. The Broadway El in Brooklyn/Queens is at least as good as the 14th St. Canarsie subway line.


----------



## phoenixboi08

Tower Dude said:


> Fascinating!
> Are you suggesting it piggy backs onto the Nassau street line, then piggy backs through the Montague tunnels, then express on the Fulton line to Utica avenue and then a new line on Utica.
> If so I did not think of that, I thought that creating a second line to service Southern and North-east Queens, that would piggy back thought the Roosevelt Island tunnels and join up at 55th St and Travel down to Hanover Square, while the T service would divert and join up with the F train Again at East Broadway piggy back on the Rutger St. Tunnels and then Switch over to the Fulton line at Jay St.-Metro Tech leading then run express to Utica Avenue leading to its own line there.
> 
> The foreseeable problems with both scenarios,
> A) The city deciding not to use the Fulton Line as the starting point for the Utica Ave Line and instead electing to extend the Eastern Parkway line in some fashion
> B) The Tower Dude Proposal will require much more tunneling done in Manhattan also for new lines in Queens which will meet resistance from queens residence and the MTA because of the length of the new Route with the future addition of a Bronx spur finally it would take up capacity at Jay street, in the Rutger St. Tubes, and on the Culver lines; and for the sake argument if the city decides on a subway extension to SI and uses the IND's Second System Plan as a base board it would require the capacity on all of the aforementioned as the (potential) Fort Hamilton line and Narrows tubes would need the capacity.
> C) The Nexis Plan would require less tunneling in Manhattan more in Brooklyn though the lack of "Shiny New" Stations in Lower Manhattan may (will) lead to cries and wailing about the disparate spending of the MTA leading to resistance of that plan. Also a connection from the BMT Fourth Avenue line to the Fulton St. Line could be very complicated, though a new station in downtown Brooklyn might be a good idea.


I know the PATH+LEX concept is completely and utterly dead, but is it technically possible to extend tracks through the south end of the WTC campus to meet up with the RW at Cortlandt (something tells me no on this one) or the tail end of Phase 4 of SAS at Hannover to achieve a similar end?

And, while we're on the subject of integrating the two, since there are supposed plans to include another extension of the 7 with Gateway, why not go further and connect to PATH at 33rd - unless it's a technical impossibility?


----------



## Woonsocket54

*STATEN ISLAND RAILWAY | Grasmere station*

Reopening of station house























































Source: Staten Island Advance (http://www.silive.com/eastshore/index.ssf/2016/01/grasmere_station_house_opens_a.html)


----------



## Tower Dude

phoenixboi08 said:


> And, while we're on the subject of integrating the two, since there are supposed plans to include another extension of the 7 with Gateway, why not go further and connect to PATH at 33rd - unless it's a technical impossibility?



Ya I've often wondered about the exact details and the overall feasibility of the 7 extension myself but the 7 extension seems highly unlikely because it seems in most plans to be based on the very unlikely Penn Station South. Far more likely would be a reopening of the Gimble's passage after recent announcements of Penn Station Overhaul and whispers from Vornado concerning 15 Penn Plaza.


----------



## phoenixboi08

Tower Dude said:


> Ya I've often wondered about the exact details and the overall feasibility of the 7 extension myself but the 7 extension seems highly unlikely because it seems in most plans to be based on the very unlikely Penn Station South. Far more likely would be a reopening of the Gimble's passage after recent announcements of Penn Station Overhaul and whispers from Vornado concerning 15 Penn Plaza.


Yeah, that makes sense. However, can't (and shouldn't) the 7 extension happen, regardless of Penn South?


----------



## Tower Dude

In theory though if its main function is to serve penn station then connection between the stations should be the utmost priority


----------



## Nexis

*⁴ᴷ NYC Subway Timelapse - The Queens-bound 7 Line*


----------



## Woonsocket54

*Brooklyn-Queens streetcar proposal*










Source: New York Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...-brooklyn-queens-waterfront-article-1.2486682)


----------



## mrsmartman

http://imgur.com/r/nycrail/3KuM4DS

Four tracks are better than two tracks...


----------



## UrbanImpact

The Bowery Station looks like it's in a state of decay hno: NYC deserves better!


----------



## mrsmartman

From the *New York Daily News:* 

MTA needs $66 Million to get Second Avenue Subway open on time.

...

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/for...venue-subway-construction-discussion/page-208

Apparently, time is money.


----------



## storms991

UrbanImpact said:


> The Bowery Station looks like it's in a state of decay hno: NYC deserves better!


Nothing can be worse than Chamber St Station!


----------



## Woonsocket54

storms991 said:


> Nothing can be worse than Chamber St Station!


*21 St * on the







is pretty bad as well.


----------



## Ultramatic

February 25, 2016 / Brooklyn news / Transit Issues / Williamsburg 
*Shafted! MTA won’t build brand-new L train tunnel*

By Allegra Hobbs

 Enlarge this image

The Brooklyn Paper / Richard Moon
L no: The transit authority may shut the battered L train tube to Manhattan for years of repairs, but won't entertain the idea of building a new one. 

They can’t dig their way out of this one.
The Metropolitan Transit Authority will not build a new L train tunnel as an alternative to the extensive repairs of the existing tubes that would close the line between the boroughs for years, say local pols — claiming the atrophying Canarsie Tube is so close to collapsing, it may not have time to construct another passageway before it caves in.
“Before they could complete such a project, the problems they are anticipating on the L train could happen,” said Minna Elias, chief of staff to Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney (D–New York) on Wednesday at the first meeting of the L Train Coalition, a group of local businesses rallying to fight the closure. “They are concerned about safety.”
Transit honchos claim the tubes that carry passengers between Williamsburg and Manhattan are in immediate need of repair due to damage caused by Hurricane Sandy in 2012, said Elias — the tunnels and the underlying wiring are falling apart after being ravaged by salt water, and the authority says concrete could begin raining down within years.
...


----------



## Buffaboy

I've never been to the NYC Subway. Do you guys regularly encounter rodents and animals?


----------



## Miami High Rise

They're so famous they have their own Wikipedia article.

nm its for the whole city. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rats_in_New_York_City


----------



## Nexis

Buffaboy said:


> I've never been to the NYC Subway. Do you guys regularly encounter rodents and animals?


Its common to see rats walking down the track bed....or stairs.... :nuts:


----------



## Ultramatic

*New York's Subway to Get New Technologies, But Still Lags Other Cities*

By Nikhita Venugopal | February 23, 2016 7:15pm 

NEW YORK CITY — We have some catching up to do. New York City has one of the oldest and most extensive subway systems in the world, but when it comes to technological advancements that could ease the stress of commuting, the city is behind the times.
Paris has protective screen doors on subway platforms, Munich has an app that helps you figure out when your train is leaving and Seoul's passengers can use wireless Internet and mobile service inside moving trains. 
But making any of those improvements in New York's 116-year-old subway system is easier said than done with the MTA's antiquated infrastructure, experts say. (Seoul's metro, by comparison, is less than 50 yeas old.)

Officials are working to catch up with the rest of the world. Last month, the state announced plans to "dramatically improve" the system and the MTA revealed designs for an accordion-style subway car that could fit more passengers.
Research from the Transit Leadership Summit, a project from the Regional Plan Association, compared the experiences of riders in Hong Kong, Montreal, New York, Seoul, Singapore, Vienna and Washington, D.C. in areas ranging from communication to accessibility.
Some systems, the report found, were cleaner, brighter, safer by the presence of platform screen doors, and easily accessible for all kinds of riders. "In other systems, train stations are dark, noisy and difficult to navigate, and complete accessibility for customers with disabilities is rare," it concluded. 

...


----------



## Woonsocket54

New Yorker cartoon about Astor Place station










http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cu...-astor-place-subway-station?intcid=mod-latest


----------



## mrsmartman

The Ninth Avenue “El” or elevated, is shown looking north along State Street in New York, Feb. 22, 1940. The transit commission has authorized the condemnation of the structure. (AP Photo)

http://bowshrine.com/historical-photos-new-york-city-subway/


----------



## mrsmartman

itmaybeokay said:


> Look what I found deep in some meeting minutes:
> 
> ...


http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/48752-w-train-coming-back-this-fall/page-25


----------



## 00Zy99

W for WOW


----------



## Woonsocket54

I wonder if the station at 96th St & 2nd Ave will just be called "96 St" or have some secondary name like "96 St/Yorkville" or "96 St/East Harlem" or "96 St/Metropolitan Hospital Center." Many terminus stations have a secondary name (such as Metropolitan Ave/Middle Village, Jamaica/179th St and Canarsie/Rockaway Pkwy).


----------



## Nexis

*A Rail Breaks Under Manhattan - A Subway Delay Chronicle*


> Filmed and edited by Max Diamond
> 
> A brief look at how one broken rail can drastically affect service on an entire subway line drastically. This video shows the way that the NYC Subway 7 Line operations were handled when a rail broke in the crucial "Steinway Tube", which carries 7 trains between Manhattan and Queens.
> 
> Taken on February 25th, 2016.


----------



## Nexis

*This is....Fulton Center...*


This is....Fulton Center... by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## mrsmartman




----------



## mrsmartman

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/116th_Street_(IRT_Lenox_Avenue_Line)


----------



## Nexis

*This is....34th Street - Hudson Yards*


Walking around Midtown Manhattan in the late Afternoon - Hudson Yards Redevelopment by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is... 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is... 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is... 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is... 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is... 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is... 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr

*Its Leaking! *


This is... 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is... 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is... 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is... 34th Street - Hudson Yards by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Miami High Rise

Looks like enough money for multiple utilitarian non politicised stations. And it's been leaking all along. I wonder how much of the grandeur is due to the profile of the development. With the name at least their not pretending to fool anybody. Honestly the low ridership is the most annoying thing. If this happened in a less desirable or promising neighborhood people would be decrying it much more vocally.


----------



## 00Zy99

For projects like this, there's a mandated percentage that must be given to art. And it really doesn't look any more elaborate than any other new subway station anywhere else in the world. You don't want it to be looking like some of the truly dismal stations from the Dual Contracts era, do you? Exposed I-Beams are no longer even allowed, if possible. Look at Seattle, Tokyo, London, and Paris (Moscow doesn't count). All of these cities have new stations either just opened or under construction, all of which are at least as elaborate as this. New York is a world-class city that needs and deserves appropriate infrastructure. Look at some of the older stations in NYC that have been rehabbed. They look quite nice as well.

The fact that this station is very bright is at least partly due to being new, and partly due to new guidelines for visibility.

If all of the walls were covered with mosaics, then I would agree with you that it was opulent. However, this station is basically what a typical modern subway station looks like. In fact, I've heard people complaining about it being very plain and banal (it is compared to some of the stuff elsewhere-especially in Moscow).


----------



## mrsmartman




----------



## mrsmartman

Ubisoft touts that there will be an underground expansion for *Tom Clancy's The Division*. This should be an interesting topic for each and every NYC subway fan.

Will the subway system featured in *The Divisional New York* be an accurate recreation?















http://www.lightninggamingnews.com/image-tom-clancys-division-illustrates-subway/


----------



## Woonsocket54

mrsmartman said:


> This should be an interesting topic for each and every NYC subway fan.


You cannot be serious.


----------



## Nexis

*Hudson Subway Leaking*


----------



## Bronxwood

Shows that we can't get things done right in this city. The station is brand new and it's already showing signs of age, stains on the walls, on the floors, leaks here and there. Shody work at its finest. Just check out the "new" transfer/connection for Broadway Lafayette station. If you didn't know any better, you'd think it was built 100 years ago.


----------



## Nexis

Its the same corrupt Yonkers construction company...that's causing all the leaks and issues...


----------



## Nexis

*Subway Tour: 190th Street*


----------



## browntown

00Zy99 said:


> For projects like this, there's a mandated percentage that must be given to art.


It's not the art, it's how much open room there is for no good reason. This is a mined station and yet it's so much larger than the old cut and cover stations for no good reason. Fulton Street and the new PATH station are similar stations that have huge open areas for no good reason. The new Second Avenue Subway stations aren't quite as bad, but still much more expensive than they need to be. Screw everything look nice, just make things work.


----------



## 00Zy99

browntown said:


> It's not the art, it's how much open room there is for no good reason. This is a mined station and yet it's so much larger than the old cut and cover stations for no good reason. Fulton Street and the new PATH station are similar stations that have huge open areas for no good reason. The new Second Avenue Subway stations aren't quite as bad, but still much more expensive than they need to be. Screw everything look nice, just make things work.


Allow me to point you to Washington, Moscow, London, and Stockholm. Not to mention the stations on Archer Ave and 63rd Street.


First of all, there's the arch shape up-top, which is for stability and strength. This way, they can have a single, massive, cavern, which is stronger and easier to build.


Why do they need so much floor space? To anticipate future growth of traffic and enable safe evacuation. Also, having open space like this is proven to attract riders and reduce crime, due to the various subconscious impressions created in the mind.

Studies have demonstrated all of this, and stations as seen on the Dual Contracts lines have been basically out-of-date since the 1960s. They are not up to code, with unsafe ceilings and the like.


----------



## mrsmartman




----------



## mrsmartman




----------



## mrsmartman

*Interborough Rapid Transit*



Union Tpke said:


>


http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/48844-looking-for-a-photo/


----------



## Nexis

*This is... 46th Street – Bliss Street*


This is... 46th Street – Bliss Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is... 46th Street – Bliss Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is... 46th Street – Bliss Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is... 46th Street – Bliss Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is... 46th Street – Bliss Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is... 46th Street – Bliss Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is... 46th Street – Bliss Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is... 46th Street – Bliss Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is... 46th Street – Bliss Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

J Trains....


Inbound J Train leaving Williamsburg by Corey Best, on Flickr


Outbound J train entering Williamsburg... by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is a Broad Street bound J train , next and last stop is Broad Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## pablomilanogul

los coches historicos ???


----------



## bd popeye

pablomilanogul said:


> los coches historicos ???


Are you looking for photos of historic rolling stock i.e.coches? or just looking for information on the rolling stock?

The coaches you see in the photo above your post are not historic. They are current rolling stock.

Try this page;

http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/Main_Page#

Just click on cars and use the drop down menu.


----------



## bd popeye

_I wonder if I as a small child ever rode in one of these cars on the Third AV EL???? The undated photos are probably from circa 1954-55._





> Country: United States
> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: 3rd Avenue El
> Location: 34th Street
> Car: MUDC 1125
> Photo by: Frank Goldsmith
> Collection of: Joe Testagrose
> Date: 5/6/1955






> Country: United States
> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: 3rd Avenue El
> Location: 99th Street
> Car: MUDC 1303
> Photo by: Arthur Myrick/Harold Fagerberg Coll.
> Collection of: Joe Testagrose
> Date: 5/10/1955






> Country: United States
> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: 3rd Avenue El
> Location: 28th Street
> Car: MUDC 1164
> Collection of: Joe Testagrose






> Country: United States
> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: 3rd Avenue El
> Location: 34th Street
> Car: MUDC 1205
> Collection of: David Pirmann
> Notes: Looking north from overpass


----------



## mrsmartman

*The Pride of Financial America*


----------



## bd popeye

_Night City Dream_ said:


> What is meant by a violent crime? Murder?


According to the FBI violent crime is;

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...-in-the-u.s.-2011/violent-crime/violent-crime



> Definition
> In the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program, violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. Violent crimes are defined in the UCR Program as those offenses which involve force or threat of force.


----------



## zaphod

I know the area might be sketchy, but those pictures of stations and entrances in Brooklyn are badass.


----------



## Nexis

*Composite Tie Installation at St. George Terminal*


----------



## GojiMet86

I took this video back in February while standing in foot-high snow.


----------



## andrea_80

this is my contribute. pics taken during my honeymoon travel: 30 may 2014:
http://i.imgur.com/SDIeXLf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rq0AxnJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ga69IoT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/owdmpmT.jpg
enjoy


----------



## 00Zy99

Those images are too large. Please re-size them.


----------



## Nexis

*Second Avenue Subway CIC: The People Behind the Project - Trailer #1*


----------



## jay stew

http://hyperallergic.com/293082/the...tion-in-the-world-nyc-pays-tribute-to-prince/


----------



## bd popeye

00Zy99 said:


> Those images are too large. Please re-size them.


I always re-size my photos..

One thing I do not understand about this forum is that there is no "spoiler" to automatically re-size photos. The other forums I visit automatically re-size photos..One last thing about photo posting this forum allows hot linking..possibly because it is so large and would be hard to control.





> Country: United States
> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IRT West Side Line
> Location: South Ferry (Outer Loop Station)
> Car: Low-V 4571
> Photo by: Joel Shanus






> Country: United States
> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IRT West Side Line
> Location: South Ferry (Outer Loop Station)
> Route: Fan Trip
> Car: Low-V (Museum Train) 5290
> Photo by: Richard Panse
> Date: 10/13/2012



_Graffiti vandals did their dirty work on these laid up Lo-v cars._


> Country: United States
> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Location: Westchester Yard
> Car: Low-V 35337 (ex-5337)
> Collection of: Joe Testagrose
> Date: 11/3/1979
> Notes: Work Motor 35337


----------



## GojiMet86

Opening Day of the 34th Street-Hudson Yards station.


----------



## mrsmartman

bd popeye said:


> I always re-size my photos..
> 
> One thing I do not understand about this forum is that there is no "spoiler" to automatically re-size photos. The other forums I visit automatically re-size photos..One last thing about photo posting this forum allows hot linking..possibly because it is so large and would be hard to control.


MTA should consider painting their trains.


----------



## bd popeye

mrsmartman said:


> MTA should consider painting their trains.


Nope..paint increases the weight of the train requiring more voltage to operate said train there by increasing cost of operations.


----------



## Miami High Rise

The increased dimensions also reduce already tight clearances to the danger zone.


----------



## GojiMet86

On January 15, 2015, a water main broke around the area of the West 4th Street station. Said condition forced a couple of diversions. The (D) train was sent to 57th Street-7th Avenue, and the (B) was sent to Astoria-Ditmars Blvd. This was the result:


IMG_6737 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


IMG_6587 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


IMG_6654 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


IMG_6701 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


IMG_6714 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


IMG_6745 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


IMG_6760 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## 00Zy99

mrsmartman said:


> MTA should consider painting their trains.


The trains in the photos you quoted are the Low-V series. These were built about 100 years ago, and are only used in museum and heritage service. The dark green paint is an accurate recreation of how they originally appeared. They shouldn't be considered to be in need of new point when they already have a story to tell.


----------



## Anderson79

Vintage:










Font: https://vintageeveryday.wordpress.com/page/19/


----------



## 00Zy99

Here, have some info:

http://nycsubway.org/wiki/The_Interborough_Fleet,_1900-1939_(Composites,_Hi-V,_Low-V)

And a pic from that site:

http://nycsubway.org.s3.amazonaws.com/images/i26000/img_26618.jpg


----------



## bd popeye

00Zx99..that first Lo-v & Hi-V link is no good. the ) is missing from the end of the link.

Here's the correct link about Lo-v & Hi-V cars.

*The Interborough Fleet, 1900-1939 (Composites, Hi-V, Low-V)...| nycsubway.org*


----------



## GojiMet86

An incident at the 125th Street station in which someone was believed to have fallen into the tracks.

But fortunately, it was just a basketball.








IMG_6962 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


IMG_6958 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## Anderson79

You know ... I would love to see New York and its subway. Also known San Francisco with BART subway. I have great desire...

Speaking of subway have someone here from New Jersey? I have a question about a model of the São Paulo subway that was built there in 1972 by a company called "Richard Gelak Associates Runnemede, New Jersey."


----------



## Woonsocket54

GojiMet86 said:


> An incident at the 125th Street station in which someone was believed to have fallen into the tracks.
> 
> But fortunately, it was just a basketball.


Any word on the fate of the misplaced basketball?


----------



## 00Zy99

Woonsocket54 said:


> Any word on the fate of the misplaced basketball?


Its been dunked in the slammer for fouling outside the yellow line.


----------



## webeagle12

00Zy99 said:


> Its been dunked in the slammer for fouling outside the yellow line.


lolololool


----------



## Nexis

*⁴ᴷ 2 and 3 Trains Rerouted to South Ferry Action*


----------



## mrsmartman

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from Pennsylvania and New York*


----------



## Woonsocket54

*Birthday wishes*

Happy 60th birthday to *Grant Avenue station* on the







train.

This station opened on 1956.04.29. It is one of numerous superlatives, including being the easternmost, youngest and ugliest subway station in the borough of Brooklyn.

New York City MTA Grant Avenue station on A C line by Tim Adams, on Flickr









http://www.subwaynut.com/ind/granta/index.php









http://www.subwaynut.com/ind/granta/index.php









http://www.subwaynut.com/ind/granta/index.php









http://www.subwaynut.com/ind/granta/index.php









http://www.subwaynut.com/ind/granta/index.php

Grant Avenue Station by Atomische * Tom Giebel, on Flickr

Sixty years young, ladies and gents.


----------



## bd popeye

*R-40 St Louis cars ..1968*





> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Location: Coney Island Shop/Maint. & Inspection Shop
> Car: R-40 (St. Louis, 1968)
> Photo by: Pete Monty
> Collection of: Bill Demo
> Date: 4/13/2008






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: BMT Broadway Line
> Location: Times Square/42nd Street
> Route: S
> Car: R-40 (St. Louis, 1968) 4162
> Photo by: Doug Grotjahn
> Collection of: Joe Testagrose
> Date: 8/28/1969






> Country: United States
> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Location: DeKalb Avenue
> Route: B
> Car: R-40 (St. Louis, 1968) 4179
> Photo by: John Barnes
> Date: 7/31/2008






> Country: United States
> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Location: New York Transit Museum
> Car: R-40 (St. Louis, 1968) 4280
> Photo by: John Dooley
> Date: 12/30/2012


----------



## Nexis

Second Avenue Subway

Taken on Friday - 4/29/16

72nd Street


Walking around the Upper East Side on a Cloudly Day by Corey Best, on Flickr

In the 90s


Walking around the Upper East Side on a Cloudly Day by Corey Best, on Flickr


Walking around the Upper East Side on a Cloudly Day by Corey Best, on Flickr


Walking around the Upper East Side on a Cloudly Day by Corey Best, on Flickr


Walking around the Upper East Side on a Cloudly Day by Corey Best, on Flickr


Walking around the Upper East Side on a Cloudly Day by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

*Turnstile at Columbus Circle*


Turnstile Subway Mall at Columbus Circle in Midtown Manhattan by Corey Best, on Flickr


Turnstile Subway Mall at Columbus Circle in Midtown Manhattan by Corey Best, on Flickr


Turnstile Subway Mall at Columbus Circle in Midtown Manhattan by Corey Best, on Flickr


Turnstile Subway Mall at Columbus Circle in Midtown Manhattan by Corey Best, on Flickr


Turnstile Subway Mall at Columbus Circle in Midtown Manhattan by Corey Best, on Flickr


Turnstile Subway Mall at Columbus Circle in Midtown Manhattan by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

*This is...Roosevelt Island*


IND 63rd Street Line at Roosevelt Island by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND 63rd Street Line at Roosevelt Island by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND 63rd Street Line at Roosevelt Island by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND 63rd Street Line at Roosevelt Island by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND 63rd Street Line at Roosevelt Island Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND 63rd Street Line at Roosevelt Island Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND 63rd Street Line at Roosevelt Island Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

*This is...Lexington Avenue - 63rd Street*


IND 63rd Street Line at Lexington Ave-63rd Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND 63rd Street Line at Lexington Ave-63rd Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IND 63rd Street Line at Roosevelt Island Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

*Some Lexington Avenue line photos*


IRT Lexington Avenue Line at 96th Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


Doors Closing at 96th Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Lexington Avenue Line at 86th Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Lexington Avenue Line at 86th Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Lexington Avenue at 59th Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Lexington Avenue at 59th Street by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## GojiMet86

If you ever wondered what an F or an R on an R68 looked like.








DSC03724 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


DSC03723 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


DSC03725 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


DSC03726 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


DSC03727 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


DSC03728 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


DSC03729 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


DSC03731 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## Ultramatic

*Surge in Ridership Pushes New York Subway to Limit*

By EMMA G. FITZSIMMONSMAY 3, 2016 









Riders waiting for the L train on a packed subway platform at Union Square in Manhattan last month. 

Subway use, now at nearly 1.8 billion rides a year, has not been this high in New York City since 1948. Credit Sam Hodgson for The New York Times For New Yorkers who rely on the 86th Street subway station on the Upper East Side of Manhattan, the morning commute is a humbling experience. An endless stream of people funnel onto the platforms. Trains arrive with a wall of humanity already blocking the doorways.
As No. 6 trains pull into the upper level of the station, riders scan for an opening and, if they can, squeeze in for a suffocating ride downtown.
“You can wait four or five subways to get on, and you’re just smushed,” Cynthia Hallenbeck, the chief financial officer at a nonprofit, said before boarding a train on a recent morning.
The Lexington Avenue line is the most crowded in the system, but subway riders across New York City are finding themselves on platforms and trains that are beyond crowded. L train stations in Brooklyn are routinely overwhelmed. In Queens, No. 7 train riders regularly endure packed conditions.
Subway use, now at nearly 1.8 billion rides a year, has not been this high since 1948, when the fare was a nickel and the Dodgers were still almost a decade away from leaving Brooklyn. Today, train delays are rising, and even a hiccup like a sick passenger or a signal malfunction can inundate stations with passengers.
...


----------



## Nexis

*Riders Prepare For L-Train Shutdown*


----------



## Nexis

*Canarsie Tunnel Reconstruction*


----------



## mrsmartman

http://forgotten-ny.com/2014/01/nycs-most-opulent-subway-entrance/

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from Pennsylvania and New York*


----------



## hkskyline

*Harmless gas released in New York subway for security test*
_Excerpt_ 

NEW YORK, May 9 (Reuters) - U.S. authorities on Monday sent a harmless gas wafting through the New York subway to study how to deal with a toxic accident or attack in a test that both unsettled and reassured riders on the underground system.

A mix of odorless, inert gases and tracer materials were released in three of the busiest subway stations in the city: Grand Central Terminal, Times Square and Penn Station, U.S. Department of Homeland Security officials said.

Men and women in orange vests let off the gas inside areas cordoned off with yellow "caution" tape as commuters walked by and police stood guard.

With equipment set up at another 55 subway stations around Manhattan, researchers will take air samples every four hours to see how the gas spreads. They will repeat the process throughout the work week, the department said in a statement.

The test is part of a five-year program that began in 2012 to develop methods to protect urban transit systems in the event of an attack or accidental contamination. Previous tests were conducted in New York, Washington, D.C. and Boston.

"These tests are designed to gather data about how airborne material will travel through subway systems and the trains and how quickly they will move," said John Verrico, a spokesman for the department's Science and Technology Directorate, which sponsored the test along with the Office of Health Affairs.


----------



## 00Zy99

I seem to recall that they already did tests of this sort 50 years ago testing for nuclear and chemical attacks. I also seem to recall that they screwed those up somehow.


----------



## elliot42

-- And at lunchtime, visitors to a nearby greasy spoon ate some bad chili and released some very 'toxic' gas of their own! :fart:



hkskyline said:


> *Harmless gas released in New York subway for security test*
> _Excerpt_
> 
> NEW YORK, May 9 (Reuters) - U.S. authorities on Monday sent a harmless gas wafting through the New York subway to study how to deal with a toxic accident or attack in a test that both unsettled and reassured riders on the underground system.
> 
> A mix of odorless, inert gases and tracer materials were released in three of the busiest subway stations in the city: Grand Central Terminal, Times Square and Penn Station, U.S. Department of Homeland Security officials said.
> 
> Men and women in orange vests let off the gas inside areas cordoned off with yellow "caution" tape as commuters walked by and police stood guard.
> 
> With equipment set up at another 55 subway stations around Manhattan, researchers will take air samples every four hours to see how the gas spreads. They will repeat the process throughout the work week, the department said in a statement.
> 
> The test is part of a five-year program that began in 2012 to develop methods to protect urban transit systems in the event of an attack or accidental contamination. Previous tests were conducted in New York, Washington, D.C. and Boston.
> 
> "These tests are designed to gather data about how airborne material will travel through subway systems and the trains and how quickly they will move," said John Verrico, a spokesman for the department's Science and Technology Directorate, which sponsored the test along with the Office of Health Affairs.


----------



## Alargule

00Zy99 said:


> This article in no way references the NYC Subway and is off-topic. Furthermore, your statement is in no way connected to the article.
> 
> Please refrain from making such misleading posts.


Sarcasm detection ability score: 0.


----------



## 00Zy99

Alargule said:


> Sarcasm detection ability score: 0.


That wasn't sarcasm. Sarcasm has to at least be somewhat on-point and have some connection to on-going topics.


----------



## mrsmartman

http://www.xplorerpress.com/catalog.html

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from Pennsylvania and New York*


----------



## Woonsocket54

Rockaway Park Shuttle (







) will be extended to Rockaway Blvd between 9 and 9 pm on weekends starting 2016.06.12 and lasting through at least 2016.09.04. This will allow riders of any







train (regardless of whether it's to terminate at Lefferts or Far Rockaway) to switch to the







.

This has not been done in recent years.

http://www.mta.info/press-release/nyc-transit/mta-adds-service-area-beaches-kick-summer-season


----------



## GojiMet86

IMG_8496 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


IMG_8453 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


IMG_8523 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## Martijacobs

Seoul subway serving the Seoul Metropolitan Area is the longest subway system in the world.


----------



## Miami High Rise

The end of those records has been quickly approaching for a while now. Tokyo, Hong Kong, Beijing, Seoul, Shanghai are growing totalinaristically fast, and seem to all be about to eclipse New York's most stations, most miles etc. records.


----------



## Nexis

*Filth In The Subways*


----------



## Woonsocket54

Miami High Rise said:


> The end of those records has been quickly approaching for a while now. Tokyo, Hong Kong, Beijing, Seoul, Shanghai are growing totalinaristically fast, and seem to all be about to eclipse New York's most stations, most miles etc. records.


I believe NYC subway mileage is growing faster than that of Tokyo, but please correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## 00Zy99

Woonsocket54 said:


> I believe NYC subway mileage is growing faster than that of Tokyo, but please correct me if I'm wrong.


Actually, at this moment, yes. There are no currently active route expansions in Tokyo, and NYC has both the 7 extension and the 2nd Avenue line.


----------



## inno4321

Martijacobs said:


> Seoul subway serving the Seoul Metropolitan Area is the longest subway system in the world.


Yes I greed that
Now seoul U/C new light rail transit for the first time.(actually they 10 line plan but it need long time to U/C)
and some new subway is going to U/C soon(especially my home town : shinansansun 10 line)
and prepare 3 big GTX high speed bullet underground(this one need a lot of money so now very primary step though)

btw TOKYO subway also great. they little bit old compared with seoul but amazing complicated line


----------



## Nexis

Taken Yesterday - 5/28/16

*This is...Fulton Center*


This is...Fulton Center in Lower Manhattan by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is...Fulton Center in Lower Manhattan by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is...Fulton Center in Lower Manhattan by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is...Fulton Center in Lower Manhattan by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is...Fulton Center in Lower Manhattan by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is...Fulton Center in Lower Manhattan by Corey Best, on Flickr


This is...Fulton Center in Lower Manhattan by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## GojiMet86

A Staten Island Railway R44 ready to be taken to Coney Island. Or perhaps arriving from Coney Island and being taken back to Clifton.

IMG_8484 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## mrsmartman

Nexis said:


> Taken Yesterday - 5/28/16
> 
> *This is...Fulton Center*
> 
> 
> This is...Fulton Center in Lower Manhattan by Corey Best, on Flickr


What would you do if you could redesign the complex network of subway alignments in Downtown NYC?

For example, to reduce the number of subway lines by half and add two more tracks to other lines. To combine 1 with 2/3. To combine J/Z with N/Q/R/W. Make it IND. Make it Midtown.

Objectives could be to restore Wall Street to its former glory or to transform FIDI to the next wealthy residential neighborhood.

What's your proposal?

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from Pennsylvania and New York*


----------



## 00Zy99

mrsmartman said:


> What would you do if you could redesign the complex network of subway alignments in Downtown NYC?
> 
> For example, to reduce the number of subway lines by half and add two more tracks to other lines. To combine 1 with 2/3. To combine J/Z with N/Q/R/W. Make it IND. Make it Midtown.
> 
> Objectives could be to restore Wall Street to its former glory or to transform FIDI to the next wealthy residential neighborhood.
> 
> What's your proposal?
> 
> *Your Trusted Source of Photographs from Pennsylvania and New York*


I would re-open the Nassau Loop and tighten bonds with Brooklyn for starters.

Bring back streetcars for local circulation.

Full build-out of the 2nd Ave Subway with 4 tracks. Have two tracks go to Brooklyn for the Court St. Shuttle (sorry museum) and have the other two swing over to meet up with the E line at World Trade Center.

More importantly, I would see two different four-track commuter rail tunnels under the Hudson. One, coming from the Bergen Arches, would carry the Erie lines, the Susquehanna, and the NYC West Shore Line. The other would come up from Communipaw and carry Raritan Valley, NJCL, MOM, West Trenton, National Docks/River Line, Newark, and other Central/South Jersey lines. The Erie lines would continue to Long Island, with a branch going up through Westchester and curving around to Piermont. The CoNJ line would go north and take over the re-opened NYW&B.

Finally, I would have the High Line extended south to about the WTC, and run a semi-express service up through Spuyten Duyvil and around out the Putnam/Getty Square branch.


----------



## mrsmartman

Is there anyway to improve train transfer in Downtown if they rebuild it or not?


----------



## GojiMet86

Nexis said:


> Or...they claim to....who knows if they really do it at all...


They had this at 34th Street for at least a week at the beginning of May.

20160510_185745 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## mrsmartman

*Restoration: IND R4 Subway Car 825*










*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from Pennsylvania and New York*


----------



## Nexis

*This is...Dyckman Street*


IRT Broadway Line at Dyckman Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Broadway Line at Dyckman Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Broadway Line at Dyckman Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Broadway Line at Dyckman Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Broadway Line at Dyckman Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Broadway Line at Dyckman Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


Under The Broadway EL in Inwood,New York by Corey Best, on Flickr


Under The Broadway EL in Inwood,New York by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

*This is...168th Street*


IRT Broadway Line at 168th Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Broadway Line at 168th Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Broadway Line at 168th Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Broadway Line at 168th Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Broadway Line at 168th Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Broadway Line at 168th Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

*This is 125th Street *


IRT Broadway Line at 125th Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Broadway Line at 125th Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Broadway Line at 125th Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Broadway Line at 125th Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr

*Southern approach to 125th Street *


IRT Broadway line trains at the 122nd Street Portal by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Broadway line trains at the 122nd Street Portal by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Broadway line trains at the 122nd Street Portal by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Broadway line Manhattanville EL by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## Nexis

*Bronx Bound 6 train departing 96th Street Station *


IRT Lexington Line at 96th Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


IRT Lexington Line at 96th Street Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


----------



## GojiMet86

IMG_2220 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_2210 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## GojiMet86




----------



## mrsmartman

00Zy99 said:


> I would re-open the Nassau Loop and tighten bonds with Brooklyn for starters.
> 
> Bring back streetcars for local circulation.
> 
> Full build-out of the 2nd Ave Subway with 4 tracks. Have two tracks go to Brooklyn for the Court St. Shuttle (sorry museum) and have the other two swing over to meet up with the E line at World Trade Center.
> 
> More importantly, I would see two different four-track commuter rail tunnels under the Hudson. One, coming from the Bergen Arches, would carry the Erie lines, the Susquehanna, and the NYC West Shore Line. The other would come up from Communipaw and carry Raritan Valley, NJCL, MOM, West Trenton, National Docks/River Line, Newark, and other Central/South Jersey lines. The Erie lines would continue to Long Island, with a branch going up through Westchester and curving around to Piermont. The CoNJ line would go north and take over the re-opened NYW&B.
> 
> Finally, I would have the High Line extended south to about the WTC, and run a semi-express service up through Spuyten Duyvil and around out the Putnam/Getty Square branch.


MTA should run Nassau Street trains to Brooklyn.


----------



## Woonsocket54

A poorly written press release seems to suggest that the







would be extended to Whitehall Street in lower Manhattan overnight (it currently runs as a shuttle between 36th St (Sunset Park) and 95th St (Bay Ridge) late night). 

Press release doesn't say when this will happen and cannot decide if this is finalized or proposed.

http://www.mta.info/news-r-r-train-...016/06/16/change-allows-more-transfers-faster

http://www.mta.info/press-release/n...extend-late-night-r-shuttle-service-manhattan

I think the MTA should be embarrassed, ashamed and humiliated that it puts out trash like this. This is one of the largest transit agencies in the world, and I think most would agree with me when I say that a higher level of professionalism is expected.


----------



## Wilhem275

Nexis said:


> *This is 125th Street *
> 
> *Southern approach to 125th Street *


Been there in GTA IV  Frankfort High, great location


----------



## GojiMet86

*Staten Island Railway*

The Staten Island Railway, which uses the R44 model that has been retired from the regular MTA subway.














































IMG_5804 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5810 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_8999 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9036 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9046 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9049 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9054 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9059 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9068 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9074 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9078 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9079 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9081 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9089 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9095 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9104 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9106 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9107 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9116 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9119 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9124 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9131 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9136 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## Woonsocket54

*w*



Woonsocket54 said:


> A poorly written press release seems to suggest that the
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> would be extended to Whitehall Street in lower Manhattan overnight (it currently runs as a shuttle between 36th St (Sunset Park) and 95th St (Bay Ridge) late night).
> 
> Press release doesn't say when this will happen and cannot decide if this is finalized or proposed.
> 
> http://www.mta.info/news-r-r-train-...016/06/16/change-allows-more-transfers-faster
> 
> http://www.mta.info/press-release/n...extend-late-night-r-shuttle-service-manhattan
> 
> I think the MTA should be embarrassed, ashamed and humiliated that it puts out trash like this. This is one of the largest transit agencies in the world, and I think most would agree with me when I say that a higher level of professionalism is expected.


The press releases have now been updated with the previously missing information. This will be presented as a recommendation to the MTA board and, if approved, will take effect fall 2016.

It will be a big year for Whitehall Street station, which will also see the return of the







.


----------



## mrsmartman

Is it possible to run subway train on MNR & LIRR?


----------



## webeagle12

mrsmartman said:


> Is it possible to run subway train on MNR & LIRR?


Myself i dont think so


----------



## 00Zy99

GojiMet86 said:


> The Staten Island Railway, which uses the R44 model that has been retired from the regular MTA subway.
> 
> IMG_9089 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


Where was this image taken?



mrsmartman said:


> Is it possible to run subway train on MNR & LIRR?


Metro-North operates the former New York Central electric lines, which use under-contact third rail. This is incompatible with the third rail shoes on subway cars. While it is possible to design a third rail shoe that can transition using a track-side device, it would be expensive and complex.

The Long Island Railroad, on the other hand, uses the same type of contact shoes as the subway, and direct operation is possible. The main issue is that while the subway uses 650V DC, the LIRR uses 750V DC. 

However, they did formerly use the same voltage (650). The LIRR changed over in 1971-1972 with the introduction of the M1 rolling stock, which was higher-performance and enabled greater speed.

Just before the change-over was complete, in January and February of 1972, the subway did speed tests of the new R-44 rolling stock between Woodside and Jamaica.

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?7650

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?7649

These tests set what is apparently the current world speed record for subway cars: 87.75 mph (and the cars were still accelerating at the end of the test track).

http://nycsubway.org/wiki/R-44_(St._Louis,_1971-1973)

Furthermore, around the same time, delays in transitioning from the old 1920s SIRT ME-1 equipment to the new R-44s lead to several older LIRR MUs seeing service on Long Island:

http://nycsubway.org/perl/show?10566

There were also various run-through operations between the LIRR and the subway in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. However, these were dropped due to a mixture of insufficient track capacity (the subway was busy enough as it was), and concerns regarding the operation of relatively flimsy elevated cars in traffic with the increasingly hefty LIRR stock.

http://www.lirrhistory.com/joint.html

I won't go into all of them here, but there was originally supposed to be through operation from the LIRR Atlantic Terminal into the IRT system (the Brooklyn tunnels directly abut the LIRR). The two companies cooperated on early rolling stock design, and the very first LIRR MUs were built narrow to run on IRT track. This appears to have been dropped due to traffic issues.

http://www.lirrhistory.com/atlimp.html


----------



## mrsmartman

The flying junctions, flexible connections and the separation of local and express services of the RR, Elevated and Subway were amazing. The infrastructural freedom was unprecedented.


----------



## GojiMet86

That abandoned siding is at Nassau station.

The R32 operated once into Grand Central but with extensive modifications.


----------



## mrsmartman

Cool! Subwayish trains could be run on commuter RR if ridership warrants. :cheers:


----------



## 00Zy99

GojiMet86 said:


> That abandoned siding is at Nassau station.


Thanks!



> The R32 operated once into Grand Central but with extensive modifications.


I have never heard this before? Was it a one-time thing where they towed it in for some commemoration? Are you perhaps thinking of the New Haven Washboard ignitron rectifier MUs?

http://nycsubway.org/perl/show?76592 



mrsmartman said:


> Cool! Subwayish trains could be run on commuter RR if ridership warrants. :cheers:


Running a "subwayish" train is a simple matter of choosing what interior and door configuration you have on your rolling stock when you acquire it. Here is the original IRT fleet:

http://nycsubway.org/wiki/The_Interborough_Fleet,_1900-1939_(Composites,_Hi-V,_Low-V)

Search for "composites" in the photo directory. Those are the very first railcars ever designed for the New York subway. 

This rolling stock was designed in cooperation with the Pennsylvania Railroad, which owned the LIRR at the time. The LIRR had just started its own electrification, and its initial MP-41 equipment was essentially identical, with the intention being that the two systems would cross-operate. However, traffic patterns precluded this.

Here are the railcars from the old Els in Manhattan:

http://nycsubway.org/wiki/The_Manhattan_Elevated_Fleet

Here is the old Brooklyn Stock:

http://nycsubway.org/wiki/The_BMT_Fleet_(Elevated,_Subway,_Experimental)

http://nycsubway.org/perl/show?57753

http://nycsubway.org/perl/show?6646

Chicago and London have many more examples of subway equipment that is railroad-like. 

http://nycsubway.org/wiki/Chicago,_Illinois

http://nycsubway.org/wiki/London_Underground

Conversely, Japan has many commuter rail lines that operate with subway-like rolling stock and schedules:

http://ktransit.com/transit/Asia/Japan/Tokyo/Commuter/tokyo_cr_jr.htm

The line between subway and commuter rail can get blurred in many ways. Berlin's S-Bahn is operated by the national rail system, DB:

http://nycsubway.org/wiki/Berlin,_Germany_S-Bahn

In Paris, the RER is operated by both RATP, the local transit agency, and SNCF, the national rail network: 

http://nycsubway.org/wiki/Paris,_France_RER-Transilien_Lines

In London, the Overground is operated as part the transit system, even though it includes such features as the GOBLIN (Gospel Oak to Barking LINe), which is diesel-powered and only has two-car trains:

http://nycsubway.org/wiki/London_Overground

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_Oak_to_Barking_Line

In the past, there were interurban systems that ran over parts of the Chicago L to serve the downtown Loop from the suburbs and even as far away as Milwaukee, Wisconsin:

http://www.greatthirdrail.org/

http://www.northshoreline.com/

While they did also race along on fast routes between cities, at other places these systems operated in the streets like giant streetcars (they were essentially outgrowths of trolleys).

Conversely, there is currently a movement to improve service on several commuter rail lines to have more "rapid transit like" service.

In Chicago, the grassroots proposal to upgrade the old Illinois Central commuter rail lines appears to be gaining official notice. 

In Philadelphia, plans to upgrade the commuter rail lines to a "RER-like" service fell apart in the early '80s due to budget and labor issues, but are finally starting to regain some small momentum with the new fare system.

In Toronto, the GO Transit capital program is ultimately aiming at similar conditions. 

Maryland's MARC commuter rail called for "rapid transit like" service through Baltimore in its most recent master plan (before the latest budget cuts). 

In California, the Caltrain line between San Francisco and San Jose seems to sum up its goal as "ALL THE TRAINS! ALL THE TIME!".

And already, some segments of Metro-North and the LIRR are similar to rapid transit. The Far Rockaway Line, the Port Washington Line, and segments of the Harlem Line come to mind.

In conclusion, the distinction between rapid transit and commuter rail is as much about operating philosophy and regulations (New York's PATH complies with all of the standard FRA operating procedures just like Amtrak) as it is about equipment design.

The LIRR and Metro-North will continue to buy whatever type of rolling stock they feel is most appropriate for their operations, however subway-like or not it may be.


----------



## GojiMet86




----------



## Miami High Rise

Well they were special they've lasted longer than basically any other kind anywhere.


----------



## mrsmartman

The Subway is timeless.


----------



## bd popeye

*R-32 cars being delivered 1964*





> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: BMT West End Line
> Location: 9th Avenue
> Car: R-32 (Budd, 1964)
> Collection of: David Pirmann
> Notes: Being delivered






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IND 8th Avenue Line
> Location: 34th Street/Penn Station
> Route: C
> Car: R-32 (Budd, 1964)
> Photo by: Richard Panse
> Date: 6/11/2009


----------



## bd popeye

Nexis said:


> Near Plattsburgh...


Correct ^^Here's a link...

*Bombardier USA manufacturing*


----------



## A Chicagoan

Nexis said:


> Taken Yesterday - 8/5/16
> 
> *6 train departing 51st Street*
> 
> 
> This is....51st Street by Corey Best, on Flickr
> 
> *This is...Queens Plaza*
> 
> 
> This is....Queens Plaza by Corey Best, on Flickr
> 
> 
> This is....Queens Plaza by Corey Best, on Flickr
> 
> *Empty Subway car to myself at 7:45pm to Hudson Yards *
> 
> 
> Empty subway car by Corey Best, on Flickr
> 
> *@ 34th Street - Hudson Yards*
> 
> 
> 34-Hudson Yards Station by Corey Best, on Flickr
> 
> 
> 34-Hudson Yards Station by Corey Best, on Flickr
> 
> 
> 34-Hudson Yards Station by Corey Best, on Flickr
> 
> 
> 34-Hudson Yards Station by Corey Best, on Flickr


The escalator going up to the exit is really cool. One of the steepest I've been on.


----------



## mrsmartman

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York*


----------



## 00Zy99

What exactly is going on there?

There is no description and it barely has anything to do with the subway. The only evidence of the subway is a single entrance barely visible in the lower right.


----------



## mrsmartman

Yes, customers of Nassau Street Line are privileged to have their subway terminating right under NYSE.


----------



## 00Zy99

Okay...

So that's the whole message here? That the Nassau Street Loop has a stop directly under the NYSE?

A picture that more clearly shows the entrance and its relationships would be better, as would a caption.


----------



## Scizoid.Trans.Prog.

mrsmartman said:


> *Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York*


'Murica!


----------



## Miami High Rise

Hey the oversized flag might be a little gaudy, but Wall Street remains perhaps the best and the oldest urban canyon in the city or anywhere. Looking down and seeing Trinity Church. I like how unimposing but important the subway is here. The veins of the city tucked down out of the way. Elevated transit was never right for Manhattan.


----------



## bd popeye

Miami High Rise said:


> .... I like how unimposing but important the subway is here. The veins of the city tucked down out of the way. *Elevated transit was never right for Manhattan*.


Maybe not.. but the El provided public transit on Manhattan from 1878 to 1955 when the third AV El was closed in Manhattan;

*Manhattan Railway Company*


----------



## bd popeye

_Manhattan Elevated Lines map....circa 1881_



*HI RES*


----------



## mrsmartman

The Manhattan Elevated served New York City during its golden age.


----------



## mrsmartman

Manitopiaaa said:


> NYC's subway is one of the busiest in the world, has the most stations (at 422), the most trackage, is one of the world's longest, has headways of 2-5 minutes during peak hours and transports 6,000,000 people per day. It's dirty as hell, sure, but it was not built to be pretty. It was built to move people. And it does that quite well.


:cheers:


----------



## Yellow Fever

mrsmartman said:


> *Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York*


photo without any comment would really confuse people.


----------



## Fan Railer

Coney Island Overhaul Shop Tour:





http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...073741948.100001258801227&type=1&l=fada7f40b3


----------



## mrsmartman

Also, you will notice that most subway stations have either a green globe or a red globe (image to left). Historically, these were installed to tell riders which stations are not open 24hours (those are marked with a red globe) and which stations are open 24 hours (those marked with a green globe). The red globes were also supposed to mark exit only stairs, but 99% of New Yorkers and visitors ignore that. To simplify things, just remember that red globe station entrances are not likely open after evening rush hour.

See more at: http://www.freetoursbyfoot.com/navigating-new-york-subway-beginners-guide/

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from Pennsylvania and New York*


----------



## Tågälskaren

*What’s Next for the New York Subway? Toronto Already Knows*

TORONTO — Step on board, and the subway car immediately feels different.
With a clear view down the length of the train, commuters walk from car to car searching for a less crowded spot to stand. Others gather in the accordion-style passageway between cars, an area once separated by doors[...]


----------



## Tågälskaren

*Transit Wireless Accelerates WiFi Deployment in NYC Subway*

Interesting news for NYC subway riders. Transit Wireless is now planning to have WiFi available across 279 underground stations in the Big Apple by the end of 2016 but cellular service could take a while longer[...]


----------



## Dan78

bd popeye said:


> _Manhattan Elevated Lines map....circa 1881_
> 
> 
> 
> *HI RES*


What's interesting to me is how little East-West service there was (as in none) ...which makes sense, as Manhattan is much longer North-South than it is East-West. I'm guessing streetcars filled in the gaps there.

Most areas of Manhattan have better rail service today, though the Lower East Side, the West Village, and modern Tribeca arguably had it slightly better in the Elevated Era.


----------



## Fabio1976

mrsmartman said:


> Also, you will notice that most subway stations have either a green globe or a red globe (image to left). Historically, these were installed to tell riders which stations are not open 24hours (those are marked with a red globe) and which stations are open 24 hours (those marked with a green globe). The red globes were also supposed to mark exit only stairs, but 99% of New Yorkers and visitors ignore that. To simplify things, just remember that red globe station entrances are not likely open after evening rush hour.
> 
> See more at: http://www.freetoursbyfoot.com/navigating-new-york-subway-beginners-guide/
> 
> *Your Trusted Source of Photographs from Pennsylvania and New York*



Old Photo. This is new : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broad...ile:Broad_Street_-_Exit_at_23_Wall_Street.jpg


----------



## mrsmartman

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from Pennsylvania and New York*


----------



## mrsmartman

Read more: http://jpwright.net/projects/subway/

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from Pennsylvania and New York*


----------



## mrsmartman

Miami High Rise said:


> The end of those records has been quickly approaching for a while now. Tokyo, Hong Kong, Beijing, Seoul, Shanghai are growing totalinaristically fast, and seem to all be about to eclipse New York's most stations, most miles etc. records.


^^



Manitopiaaa said:


> NYC's subway is one of the busiest in the world, has the most stations (at 422), the most trackage, is one of the world's longest, has headways of 2-5 minutes during peak hours and transports 6,000,000 people per day. It's dirty as hell, sure, but it was not built to be pretty. It was built to move people. And it does that quite well.


:cheers:


----------



## mrsmartman

Nexis said:


> I was going to saw use the J train alignment instead of building a new tunnel... I think with rising water levels in lower Manhattan to have the alignment so close to the river is stupid... I think it should continue into Brookyln via the R train & A train to Utica Ave and a new line under Utica Ave to Flatlands. I would also like to see the C train extended to Ozone Park-Lefferts Boulevard and the line itself extended to York College in Jamaica.


^^



00Zy99 said:


> Extend it down and around back up to the E-line terminus at the WTC. That will fit the missing link from where the Els were demolished.


----------



## Miami High Rise

00Zy99 said:


> "streamlined" trains would mean a loss in capacity. A small one, but on a system like NYC, every drop counts.
> 
> I have heard numerous comments on the new trains being good-looking and modern.
> 
> The appearance was chosen for being durable, low-maintenance, and easy to clean.


And open gangways are a nearly 10% increase they say. Much more than a drop and also it could more than offset streamlined end cars if they really wanted to do that.


----------



## 00Zy99

That gives issues with maintenance where you have to take an entire train out due to one car having a fault. Then there's making sure that the design doesn't allow people to ride on the front of the car-that happened with the last streamlined cars in NYC, the R-40.


----------



## Fabio1976

The NYC subway is 24/7/365 since 1904 !!!! In London the Mayor and the people are celebrating for more than a week because after over 150 years 2 lines are 24 hours BUT ONLY IN THE WEEKEND.........


----------



## mrsmartman

Nexis said:


> It was built cheaply and quick... Its a very efficient system...and there slowly upgrading it..


It was designed to be the most advanced subway system in the world. It is the only subway which has largely quadruple tracks. :lol:

New Yorkers demolished the Elevated RR to build a system better than the London Underground...


----------



## SSMEX

mrsmartman said:


> It was designed to be the most advanced subway system in the world. It is the only subway which has largely quadruple tracks. :lol:
> 
> New Yorkers demolished the Elevated RR to build a system better than the London Underground...


The quadruple-tracked trunk lines are frequently overlooked and are such a critical part of the NYC subway system. Many critical lines (4/5/6 especially) don't have CBTC or ATO but can run way more trains than double tracked trains with CBTC/ATO.


----------



## 00Zy99

mrsmartman said:


> It was designed to be the most advanced subway system in the world. It is the only subway which has largely quadruple tracks. :lol:
> 
> New Yorkers demolished the Elevated RR to build a system better than the London Underground...


Demolishing the Els wasn't necessary for the major subway lines at all. In fact, they were largely demolished_ after_ the subways were built. It was mostly a political decision since the city deliberately routed the municipal IND lines in competition to the BMT and IRT Els. 

And the Els had large stretches of three-track running-they were able to operate express service in the peak direction.


----------



## mrsmartman

Most pre-IND subways were built to complement each other.

Most of the triple track sections of the Els were built during the "dual contracts" period.


----------



## 00Zy99

Pre-IND subways were designed to complement other subways and Els of the same company. The IRT and BMT were still in competition with each other.


----------



## mrsmartman

Yes, but the IRT mainly served Manhattan and the Bronx while the BMT mainly served Brooklyn.


----------



## bd popeye

_Excellent slide shows from the George Conrad Collection -. Just move your cursor across the bottom of the photos for captions. The IND slideshow is a little skimpy._

* IRT Slideshow*http://www.nycsubway.org/articles/gc_irt_ss.html

*BMT Slideshow*http://www.nycsubway.org/articles/gc_bmt_ss.html

*IND Slideshow*http://www.nycsubway.org/articles/gc_ind_ss.html


----------



## mrsmartman

*All aboard!: Prohibition-era train steams onto New York subway for 1920s TV series*



Daily Mail Reporter said:


> It was once the cutting edge of metropolitan travel.
> For more than 50 years the vintage train has been in retirement.
> But now the Prohibition-era engine is to ride the rails once again- to promote a new TV series set in the glamorous 1920s.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rk-subway-Boardwalk-Empire.html#ixzz4ITI9tUUy 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook










Vintage article: The train came out of retirement for its new role










The period 1920s locomotive will promote the second series of Boardwalk Empire










Boardwalk Empire is set in the heady criminal underworld scene of 1920s Atlantic City


----------



## 00Zy99

Those are Lo-V cars. Neither steam nor locomotive is involved-those are electric MUs.


----------



## sotonsi

Fabio1976 said:


> The NYC subway is 24/7/365 since 1904 !!!! In London the Mayor and the people are celebrating for more than a week because after over 150 years 2 lines are 24 hours BUT ONLY IN THE WEEKEND.........


1) London's tube being so much older than NYC's, coupled with its more intensive service frequencies (gaps between trains on lines as little as every 100 seconds at peak times and increasingly small differences between peak and off-peak services), means that there's a big need for maintenance. Thus closing for 4 hours a night, several nights a week, makes sense (it's that or frequent weekend closures).
2) London's streets being millennia older than NYC's means that there was no way 4-tracking could have happened in the same way (in places the tracks have to stack to fit under the street). This is the key reason why NYC could run 24h service - almost uniquely.
3) London's extensive Night Bus network meant that Night Tube has never been a high priority. Night Tube is only really happening as 'because we now can and it looks good' - they reckon there's demand, but they don't have much idea how much.
4) London wanted to make absolutely sure that they could miss a night's maintenance twice a week before moving to 24h service on weekends (unlike the far newer DC Metro, which is tragically reaping the consequences of putting shiny above safety) so they needed to wait for the waning of an extensive 20-year modernization program costing roughly a couple of billion dollars each year.
5) Labor disputes delayed this for well over a year.
6) A big deal has been made of this because of politics - the new Mayor wanted to cash in big on this to give him a big bit of spin early into first term. The idea itself was almost entirely about politics too. Add in that he is on a big campaign post-Brexit vote to say that London is open for business despite that (his predecessor, who was a key Leave figure and now Foreign Secretary would say that the Leave vote was about making London/UK open to business from the whole world rather than being stuck behind the protectionist EU policies) which this is a part of.
7) Three more lines will have night tube before the end of the year and most of the rest by the end of the decade (after their modernization programs are mostly finished). That it's only two is that the entire system is being rebuilt due to being almost all over 100 years old.
8) Some other routes (DLR, W&C) could run night time services right now, but TfL are pretty sure there is not the demand for it due to a lack of night-time destinations on the line. The DLR, in theory, could have run 24h services since day 1 in the 80s, but there was definitely no demand then as it ran through industrial wasteland.


----------



## bd popeye

00Zy99 said:


> Those are Lo-V cars. Neither steam nor locomotive is involved-those are electric MUs.


I think mrsmartman took the title from the article in the link. I think the writer of the article meant the trains were moving again.


----------



## 00Zy99

^^

Be fair, sotonsi. NYC also has some very old routes. And some very short headways indeed (100 or less).


----------



## Miami High Rise

Yes but 100 seconds only where there are four or six tracks when you count multiple routes. ie the 4 and 5 and the six running downstairs. There's no less than two minutes on a single track.


----------



## sotonsi

00Zy99 said:


> Be fair, sotonsi. NYC also has some very old routes.


Sure, but 1863 for the oldest bits is 50% older than 1904 for the oldest bits.


> And some very short headways indeed (100 or less).


Every 100 seconds is 36tph, 20% more than the best on the NYC Subway, AFAICS.

The 2014 figures I can see on wikipedia have the highest as the (E)+(F) on the Queens Blvd express at 30tph in Rush Hours (15tph each). Other sections of the NYC subway with 24tph (every 150 seconds on average) or more are the (4)+(5) at 29tph, (A)+(D) at 28tph (18+10), (7)+<7> at 27tph (this is off-peak on the Victoria and Central lines in London), (C)+(E) at 25tph and the (6)+<6> at 24tph. Outside rush hours those are at: (E)+(F) 16tph, (4)+(5) 15tph, (A)+(D) 16tph, (7) 10tph, (C)+(E) 16tph, (6)+<6> 15tph. 16tph is the _minimum_ on the tube's core routes off-peak (Northern line through the West End, Northern line through The City, Met line Baker Street - Harrow)*, but it's the _maximum_ you'll find in New York. My point about the more intensive service is valid.

Another issue in London is that the London Underground's underground sections are mostly twin bores (often with different vertical alignments) so there's few crossovers to allow single track running while the other track undergoes maintenance work (and if even if they were next to each other without anything between them, it would be illegal due to safety regs to work on one while the line has trains running).

London's 24h running is an achievement that took real effort that is worthy of celebration - to begrudge a week or two of joy at this is immensely petty.

*The other core bits of the tube's current off-peak frequencies: Aldgate East-Barking 18tph, Queens Park-Elephant and Castle 20tph, Acton Town-Arnos Grove 21tph, Baker Street-Liverpool Street 21tph, Gloucester Road-Tower Hill 24tph, White City-Leytonstone 24tph, Willesden Green-Stratford 24tph, Walthamstow Central-Brixton 27tph.


----------



## Fabio1976

Miami High Rise said:


> Yes but 100 seconds only where there are four or six tracks when you count multiple routes. ie the 4 and 5 and the six running downstairs. There's no less than two minutes on a single track.


7-L-G and many shuttle (S Franklyn Avenue-S Rockaway Park-A Lefferts BLVD-M-R-5) of the NYC subway, but also the Path, the Staten Island Railroad, the JFK Air Train HAVE ONLY 2 TRACKS and ARE 24/7 !!! Same situation for the metro Copenhagen, the Red and Blue line of the EL Chicago and even for the Patco Philadelphia. Only excuses the maintenance jobs.....


----------



## Miami High Rise

Of course. As do tons of metro and light rail and other systems. But those are not that big of tph. That disqualifies them from the discussion of comparing best to best headways. But just cause you mentioned it, there are two track systems with 90 second or less headways. Of course it's possible. Why wouldn't it be? Even a minute is longer than you think, if you literally count out 60 real seconds. But those systems are mostly light rail and short to very short train lengths. The speed can pbe just as high though, since NYC subway is fairly slow. Two minute headways are the shortest I've seen in the Lexington, and on the real time screens (if they even are), I think it's only as low as two minutes as a rounding error (really closer to 2.5 mins - 150 seconds) and/or when there are delays (all tf-ing time) so they are scrunched to closest actual (not time tabled) running space.


----------



## sotonsi

Fabio1976 said:


> 7-L-G and many shuttle (S Franklyn Avenue-S Rockaway Park-A Lefferts BLVD-M-R-5) of the NYC subway, but also the Path, the Staten Island Railroad, the JFK Air Train HAVE ONLY 2 TRACKS and ARE 24/7 !!! Same situation for the metro Copenhagen, the Red and Blue line of the EL Chicago and even for the Patco Philadelphia. Only excuses the maintenance jobs.....


I'm guessing you haven't seen my lengthy response (made 10 hours before this one of yours I'm quoting) to your near-identical post in the London thread? In it I seek to explain the key reasons why you can't have single track running in London - some of which I've also repeated in this thread. I'm guessing you haven't seen it as you make no effort to engage with it, but then your 'response' to Miami High Rise showed that you made no effort to read his post, but used the discussion of numbers of tracks in it as justification to post your disengaged snipe again.

Maintenance is a very very good excuse - it's safety critical. But it's not the only one London has. When you can:
- tell me how to create more crossovers (so trains can run at frequencies that aren't pointlessly low if single track running is used to work on one track while still running trains) where the tunnels are twin-tubes that are often at different levels
- tell me how to avoid bad publicity by creating what even the general public agrees are dangerous work conditions when single-track working to work on the other track everywhere else
- stop suggesting that as a less-than-15-year-old metro (Copenhagen) can do something that a metro 10 times older (that has been modernising for more than 15 years and still isn't done) has to be able to do it
then, and only then, will I think you have a valid point.


----------



## 00Zy99

The Market-Frankford Line in Philadelphia runs 24/7 and has minimum headways of under a minute.

But this is a thread about New York, not Philadelphia or London. Lets get on topic.


----------



## sotonsi

Dragging this thread back on topic, my look earlier at NYC Subway frequencies was interesting - quite a lot of uneven frequencies running together that don't mesh well: eg the (N) and the (Q) being 7.5 and 8.5tph respectively (a more sensible 6 and 6 off-peak), (A) and (C) being 18 and 7tph (8 and 6 off-peak). These mishmashes will surely limit the capacity on the line, should there be demand for additional trains.


----------



## 00Zy99

It has to do with the track configurations. The East River tunnels are all double-track, with the lines in Brooklyn and Manhattan being quad.


----------



## Miami High Rise

00Zy99 said:


> The Market-Frankford Line in Philadelphia...has minimum headways of under a minute.


This is not a fact.

Unless you mean briefly when the skip stop catches up to the local.


----------



## 00Zy99

This is a fact from having ridden it repeatedly.


----------



## Fabio1976

00Zy99 said:


> The Market-Frankford Line in Philadelphia runs 24/7 and has minimum headways of under a minute.
> 
> But this is a thread about New York, not Philadelphia or London. Lets get on topic.


The Market-Frankford Line ( and the Broad Street Line ) in Philadelphia was 24/7 until 1991; now it is 24/2.


----------



## Miami High Rise

The headway is four minutes. According to them.


----------



## Tågälskaren

*New York subway is offering free ebooks (and Wi-Fi) for your commute*

In an effort to highlight its upcoming launch of more in-train Wi-Fi (not to be confused with in-train cricket attacks), the New York MTA, Transit Wireless, and publishing powerhouse Penguin Random House[...]


----------



## mrsmartman

Suburbanist said:


> The EL in Chicago was built with higher specs than the ELs torn down in NEw York. And so were some of the elevated subway lines in NY that are still standing.


Those structures could be reinforced.


----------



## 00Zy99

And there were rolling stock designed that were light enough to handle the structures, like the Bluebird.


----------



## micro

lightrail said:


> On the street, you can often hear the subway trains through the grates - the trains are just below the street.


Which sometimes can even create visible effects


----------



## luacstjh98

Question: What's the use of the 42nd Street Shuttle if there's the IRT Flushing Line paralleling it below?

Is it like the Drain in London, which only has one purpose - to get people from Waterloo station to the City?


----------



## mrsmartman

I took the 42nd Street Shuttle when I visited New York.

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from Pennsylvania and New York*


----------



## bd popeye

luacstjh98 said:


> Question: What's the use of the 42nd Street Shuttle if there's the IRT Flushing Line paralleling it below?
> 
> Is it like the Drain in London, which only has one purpose - to get people from Waterloo station to the City?


The *sole* purpose of the 42nd street shuttle is to move people between Grand Central Terminal and Times Square.

If those passengers took the 7 line that line would be over crowded. The 7 line does not operate as frequently as the shuttle.


----------



## 00Zy99

The 7 is already very crowded, and its stations are not as conveniently located.

Its worth noting that the shuttle predates the 7.


----------



## mrsmartman

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklyn_Bridge–City_Hall/Chambers_Street_(New_York_City_Subway)

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from Pennsylvania and New York*


----------



## sotonsi

The 42nd St Shuttle is also a remnant of history, where the original route came up Park from downtown, across 42nd St and then up 7th Ave and then along Broadway through the Upper West Side.


----------



## bd popeye

_Correct!_^^





> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IRT Times Square-Grand Central Shuttle
> Location: Grand Central
> Route: S
> Car: R-62A (Bombardier, 1984-1987) 1940
> Photo by: Zach Summer
> Date: 10/23/2011






> Country: United States
> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IRT Times Square-Grand Central Shuttle
> Location: Grand Central
> Car: R-15 (American Car & Foundry, 1950) 6215
> Photo by: Joe Testagrose
> Date: 5/30/1972


----------



## GENIUS LOCI

mrsmartman said:


> *Your Trusted Source of Photographs from Pennsylvania and New York*


Why is this scheme in Italian?


----------



## bd popeye

GENIUS LOCI said:


> Why is this scheme in Italian?


Because the architect is Italian;

*Renzo Picasso: A Lesser-Known Architect Who Had Creative Plans for NYC*


----------



## GojiMet86

SubChat user *Wakefield-241st Street* took these photos of R179 #3014 in NJ.

http://www.subchat.com/readflat.asp?Id=1407212


----------



## Miami High Rise

Virtually the same as the R160, and a small fleet that won't make a huge noticable dent in everyday rolling stock at your station. The R211 is what to look forward too. As well as infrastructure upgrades.


----------



## GojiMet86

IMG_0013 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0021 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0030 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0039 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0049 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0050 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## bodegavendetta

*J, Z Train Riders Want Shuttered Station Entrances Open on Gates Avenue *
https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20...i-sit-with-kaepernick-posters-pop-up-brooklyn












> By Camille Bautista
> 
> *Advocates have asked the MTA to open shuttered subway staircases and entrances along the J and Z lines to brace for the looming L train shutdown.*
> 
> There are *gated staircases at 12 locations along Broadway*, according to 2014 data.
> 
> Earlier this summer, a group of high schoolers sought to improve the busy commercial corridor and requested that the MTA open an entrance to the Kosciuszko station near DeKalb Avenue.
> 
> *“We are already looking at the potential of reopening closed entrances where it’s feasible to do so,” MTA spokesman Kevin Ortiz said*, though no further details were available on whether Gates Avenue was being considered.


This is such low hanging fruit for the MTA. They should open as many closed entrances as they can. I'm glad the idea is gaining more traction lately.


----------



## Miami High Rise

Really I've heard the archaic horror stories of the bad old days of shutting gates to simplify crime management. There are still rough spots but nothing like then.


----------



## Woonsocket54

A proposal to re-introduce the 9 train and extend it to Brooklyn










http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...y-line-serve-brooklyn-nabes-article-1.2790844


----------



## 00Zy99

This seems to very handily ignore the different loading gauges and vertical profiles. In order to make sense, it would need to be extended out to meet the other Brooklyn IRT lines.


----------



## Woonsocket54

The map seems to suggest it will terminate underground at 4th & 9th and not continue to the Culver division. So I don't think there would be a concern about gauge and height.


----------



## 00Zy99

That's what I'm saying about the elevation differences. And the fact that 4th & 9th isn't the best place for building a new subway terminal. I would want to have better servicing facilities and serve more markets, like Brooklyn cross-town.


----------



## luacstjh98

Eh, at least if they wanted to do that, extending the Second Avenue Subway from Hanover Square might be a better choice...

And of course, providing an interchange to the T at South Ferry/Whitehall Street from the 1 and R.


----------



## streetscapeer

*Turnstyle*

The new food and retail hall that opened up earlier this year at the 59th St/Columbus Circle Station.





FW4A8487 by Kevin Leclerc, on Flickr


FW4A8482 by Kevin Leclerc, on Flickr


FW4A8471 by Kevin Leclerc, on Flickr


FW4A8483 by Kevin Leclerc, on Flickr


FW4A8494 by Kevin Leclerc, on Flickr


FW4A8502 by Kevin Leclerc, on Flickr


----------



## luacstjh98

This is just me thinking, but how possible would an extension of the G into the Bronx via Astoria, in order to form a true crosstown line be?


----------



## Arnorian

Wouldn't extending the Eight Ave line into Brooklyn have more sense than extending the Broadway-Seventh Ave line? Cranberry Street tunnel is a bottleneck between it and the Fulton Street line whitch is underused. With this it could take over the service on the Canarsie line south of the Broadway Junction, thus relieving the load from the overcrowded Canarsie line (L train).

Or extend the planned Second Ave line that's suppose to end just short of South Ferry station and connect it to Fulton Street line?


----------



## luacstjh98

Arnorian said:


> Wouldn't extending the Eight Ave line into Brooklyn have more sense than extending the Broadway-Seventh Ave line? Cranberry Street tunnel is a bottleneck between it and the Fulton Street line whitch is underused. With this it could take over the service on the Canarsie line south of the Broadway Junction, thus relieving the load from the overcrowded Canarsie line (L train).
> 
> Or extend the planned Second Ave line that's suppose to end just short of South Ferry station and connect it to Fulton Street line?


I guess that's what most people are saying.

Build new tunnels from Hanover Square to Court Street, evict the Transit Museum, and run the T though Court Street and on the Fulton local, with A/C both running express, C going to Lefferts and A only to the Rockaways.


----------



## Miami High Rise

Was there ever the realistic thought of building a or some new tunnels immediately after sandy, knowing that damage to existing tunnels was bad enough to need major repairs? Possibly a more resilient new tunnel that would be a detour for repairs but also a permanent tunnel?


----------



## 00Zy99

Aside from giving an additional urgency to the Hudson River tubes? not really.


----------



## Woonsocket54

luacstjh98 said:


> This is just me thinking, but how possible would an extension of the G into the Bronx via Astoria, in order to form a true crosstown line be?


Astoria's repeated politically successful NIMBYism in relation to a subway to LaGuardia Airport makes any such proposal moot, at least for the next several generations.


----------



## Woonsocket54

luacstjh98 said:


> How about having platform- or mezzanine-level signage, describing each and every station a particular train stops at? Perhaps it could even be an electronic display updating for changes at rush hours, weekends, and late nights, or even service reroutes caused by planned works or disruptions. Basically FIND, but on platforms.


They have this at some stations, but it's hard to find. It may need to be electronic since service patterns change throughout the day.










http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?88992


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## luacstjh98

Perhaps to improve discoverability they could put such electronic screens near the existing Help Points?


----------



## Woonsocket54

schedule has been released for the







train. 3 trains per day will start and end at 86th Street on the







in Gravesend, Brooklyn (near the yards).



















http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/pdf/twcur.pdf


----------



## Alargule

It's time for a W-map. Click for enlargificatabilization:


----------



## GojiMet86

IMG_0871 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0874 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0879 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0885 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0894 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0899 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0903 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0907 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0910 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0916 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0929 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0930 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0932 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0937 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0940 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0947 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0950 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0952 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0953 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## Miami High Rise

We need as many good pics and videos of the R32 as their days may be more numbered than we thought. I think the date got moved back closer vs the push back to 2022 operation. They may not make it past 2019. 






Alargule said:


> It's time for a W-map. Click for enlargificatabilization:


Cool map inverted color. 

This map is very clean:

http://ny.curbed.com/2016/11/3/13508004/nyc-subway-map-redesign-jug-cerovic


----------



## MTR MTR

Hi, can anyone please explain what is the difference between the future Q train and R train?


----------



## GojiMet86

MTR MTR said:


> Hi, can anyone please explain what is the difference between the future Q train and R train?


On Monday, the (Q) will run between 57th Street and Coney Island until the Second Avenue line opens. When it opens, it will run to 96th Street.


The (R) will have one change. The (R) runs from Bay Ridge to 36th Street from 11:00 PM to about 6:00 AM. On Monday, the late-night (R) will be extended to Whitehall street.


----------



## towerpower123

In that image pack above, Chambers Street Station really looks like absolute shit!!! Is there any chance of renovating that? It looks like half the tiles on the columns are missing!


----------



## HARTride 2012

I bet that there are many transit fans taking advantage of the "W" today.


----------



## luacstjh98

Question:

So while the Q terminates at 57/7th, will it continue out of service to 96th/2nd as a test train? Or will it sit in some layup track waiting for its scheduled time to head back south?

I presume the former.


----------



## Alargule

HARTride 2012 said:


> I bet that there are many transit fans taking advantage of the "W" today.


Can't...take...the image...of transit...fans...taking...advantage of...the "W"...train...out of...my...mind...

The question that lingers is: will they take advantage of it all at once, or take turns?


----------



## streetscapeer

towerpower123 said:


> In that image pack above, Chambers Street Station really looks like absolute shit!!! Is there any chance of renovating that? It looks like half the tiles on the columns are missing!


I went to that station for the first time last month and my jaw dropped (it really looks like it was bombed in WWII or something)... unforgivable. It really needs to be in the top 5 list of stations that need renovation in the next few years


----------



## Miami High Rise

https://flic.kr/p/MGLzKF


----------



## Luca9A8M

Some photos from the MTA official account on Flickr


W Line Returns to Service by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, su Flickr


W Line Returns to Service by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, su Flickr


W Line Returns to Service by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, su Flickr


W Line Returns to Service by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, su Flickr


----------



## Woonsocket54

The cover of the 7 train timetable still extols the Hudson Yards extension, which opened more than a year ago.










http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/pdf/t7cur.pdf


----------



## Woonsocket54

MTA press release

http://www.mta.info/press-release/n...hanges-ljmz-lines-prepare-customers-m-viaduct

Nov 8 2016



> *Service Enhancements and Changes to LJMZ Lines Prepare Customers for M Viaduct Repairs*
> 
> 
> *Added Service Coming to the L Line in Summer 2017*
> 
> MTA New York City Transit plans to increase weekday and weekend service on the Canarsie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Line as ridership continues to grow in Brooklyn.
> The addition of 50 roundtrips on the
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> line is part of a package of service changes planned for June 2017. Other service changes slated for the summer will be implemented in preparation for the partial closure of the
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> line to repair two century-old structures.
> The
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Line will see increased service on weekdays and weekends as more customers use the line along 14th Street in Manhattan and growing neighborhoods in Brooklyn. NYC Transit plans to add 11 roundtrips during weekdays, and 12 roundtrips during Saturday mornings and afternoons. A total of 27 roundtrips will be added to service on Sundays from morning to evening. Weekday service will be added in preparation for an expected increase in customers who will use the
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> when the partial closure of the
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> line begins later in 2017.
> "Our subway system turned 112 this year, and it never gets a break. In order to keep up with demand, we must work now to shore up our infrastructure so trains can keep running for another hundred years,” NYC Transit President Ronnie Hakim said. “Adding more trips helps get our customers where they need to be faster, but we also must balance that extra strain on our equipment and fleet with a robust maintenance program and an eye on investing in our future."
> Starting in summer 2017, NYC Transit plans to demolish and rebuild the Myrtle Viaduct, which was built in 1913, and the Atlantic Railway Bridge at Fresh Pond Rd. The reconstruction of these two structures is critical to the repair plans for the Canarsie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tunnel, which was flooded during Superstorm Sandy in 2012. When work on the Canarsie Tunnel begins in 2019, many
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> customers are expected to use the
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lines between Brooklyn and Manhattan, which will require adding service to those lines. Repairs to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> line infrastructure are required to increase service safely.
> To accommodate the closure of the
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> line during this work, temporary long-term service changes on the
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lines will be implemented in July 2017. These changes include:
> On weekdays,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> trains will operate between the Forest Hills-71 Av
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> station and the Broadway Junction
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> station. Some trains will operate between Forest Hills-71 Av and the 2 Av
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> station during afternoon peak hours. Alternate bus service will be provided to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stations that are closed during the reconstruction projects.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> trains will make all stops between Broadway Junction and Marcy Av.


----------



## GojiMet86

IMG_0955 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0957 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0960 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0962 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0965 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0968 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0974 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0976 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0977 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0979 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0982 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0983 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0987 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1022 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1029 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1032 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1035 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1037 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1045 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1047 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_0985 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0989 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0990 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0997 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1002 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1004 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1007 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## Miami High Rise

>


https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5802/30867903365_59654c5a12_b.jpg


Bowling alley seats.


----------



## Arnorian

Does NYC get federal funding for transport projects? Looks like that will be gone now.


----------



## phoenixboi08

Arnorian said:


> Does NYC get federal funding for transport projects? Looks like that will be gone now.


no it won't...


----------



## bd popeye

phoenixboi08 said:


> no it won't...


I agree. Why would the "funding" dry up? The MTA get Federal *GRANTS* not funding. Most of its funding come from the State Of New York.

http://web.mta.info/mta/budget/

http://publictransport.about.com/od/Transit_Funding/a/New-York-State-Public-Transit-Funding.htm

Google is your friend.


----------



## Tower Dude

Ya but grants for capital construction might be more difficult


----------



## phoenixboi08

Tower Dude said:


> Ya but grants for capital construction might be more difficult


But funding in the FAST Act has been authorized for 5 years...appropriations could be affected by yearly finagling, but it isn't likely.

The only thing that would significantly change is priorities, depending on who is chosen to be Transportation Secretary: the focus on multi-modalism, complete streets, etc may not be as strong as it is now, towards the end of the current administration.


----------



## Fan Railer

The return of the W:


----------



## Tower Dude

phoenixboi08 said:


> But funding in the FAST Act has been authorized for 5 years...appropriations could be affected by yearly finagling, but it isn't likely.
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing that would significantly change is priorities, depending on who is chosen to be Transportation Secretary: the focus on multi-modalism, complete streets, etc may not be as strong as it is now, towards the end of the current administration.


Dude that might be the mother of all understatements, hopefully we can start Gateway and make some progress on Utica Ave before it goes away


----------



## phoenixboi08

Tower Dude said:


> Dude that might be the mother of all understatements, hopefully we can start Gateway and make some progress on Utica Ave before it goes away


Financing and funding for capital projects and the like will remain relatively stable. Gateway included.

Gateway, thankfully, is a bit bigger than Amtrak thanks to the fact that the existing tubes simply need a complete overhaul, anyways. There is no "Do Nothing" alternative, in this case. And again, the DOT/FRA enjoy a certain degree of discretion. I'm not at all worried about capital projects, honestly. Worse case scenario is that Federal grants and TIFIA (e.g. the matching funds) could become less generous, but they won't disappear.

If you must worry about something, it should be Amtrak, generally: funding levels, privatization, and whether they just downright have a future.


----------



## Tower Dude

Ya I forgot about that, sheesh. With any luck the there are enough republicans that are against a large spending package that democrats are needed to pass it and they can write some Amtrak Funding into the bill.


----------



## 00Zy99

Besides, Trump got in on rural votes, and a lot of the long-distance passenger trains are critical to rural communities. I could actually see him trying to push for expanded long-distance service.


----------



## Tower Dude

Not so much rural but post industrial exurbs, but ya those areas could really benefit from increased transportation options


----------



## JHPart

Post industrial suburbs, cities and towns could have a lot of old railway lines, that you could re use for a local train or tube service.


----------



## Tower Dude

If we continue this line of thought we should move it to the US Railways/US Regional Rail threads


----------



## JHPart

Perhaps there are also some old or not often used lines, that could be integrated in the New Yorker Subway?


----------



## GojiMet86

IMG_1052 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1288 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1054 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1247 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1250 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1253 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1260 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1283 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1285 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1048 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1058 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1240 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1243 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1246 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1255 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1282 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1286 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## Fan Railer

Jerome Maintenance Shop (Mosholu Yard) NYTM Tour:





Photos:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...073741954.100001258801227&type=1&l=d2067f3f41


----------



## Woonsocket54

Following the victory of the Cubs in the World Series and the election of Donald Trump as president, will the United States see a third "hell freezes over" moment in 2016?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/15/nyregion/second-avenue-subway-opening.html


----------



## Miami High Rise

Dump will build the subway on time and make the second avenue millennials pay for it.


----------



## 00Zy99

Miami High Rise said:


> Dump will build the subway on time and make the second avenue millennials pay for it.


Its not just millennials living on 2nd Ave. There's lots of elderly.

And it should be the polluting corporations paying for this.


----------



## Miami High Rise

Yes, I am being sarcastic, and millennials are beginning to disappoint me for reasons other than gentrification. More and more the "millennials are gonna save us" thing is turning out to be a farce. They're just as quick to run to the burbs when that grass looks greener, and aren't really the social angels some thought they were, in terms of justice or responsibility. I do find it funny how people in the UES talk about "getting in now" before the SAS opens and the rents start skyrocketing, as if the upper sides were a bargain now.


----------



## Alargule

Only human after all...


----------



## GojiMet86

Alargule said:


> Omg, some people and sarcasm don't go well...



That should have been my first reaction. hno:


----------



## bd popeye

> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IRT Times Square-Grand Central Shuttle
> Location: Grand Central
> Route: Fan Trip
> Car: Low-V (Museum Train) 5292
> Photo by: Mark S. Feinman
> Date: 10/27/1994
> Notes: 90th Anniversary service.






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IRT West Side Line
> Location: Chambers Street
> Car: Low-V
> Collection of: George Conrad Collection
> Date: 10/20/1956






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IRT Brooklyn Line
> Location: Grand Army Plaza
> Route: 2
> Car: R-142 (Primary Order, Bombardier, 1999-2002) 6715
> Photo by: Aliandro Brathwaite
> Date: 7/24/2007






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: 3rd Avenue El
> Location: Chatham Square
> Car: Manhattan El
> Photo by: George Votava
> Collection of: Joe Testagrose
> Date: 3/20/1940


----------



## Fan Railer

READ FIRST:
Rare mid-day weekend appearance of an R32 A train to Far Rockaway. Normally, the two R32s stay on Lefferts Boulevard runs. DJ Hammers (http://www.youtube.com/user/DjHammersBVEStation) was with me on this jaunt. Be sure to check out his content. Enjoy =)

Table of Contents:
0:00 to 33:26 - Grant Avenue to Far Rockaway - Mott Avenue (R32 3864; good dynamic brakes & fast T/O. 44 MPH into Broad Channel)
33:26 to end - Far Rockaway - Mott Avenue to Grant Avenue (R32 3804)

Time-lapse version:


----------



## Miami High Rise

The fact that the videos are long isn't actually a good thing, if you know what it means. #americantrains


----------



## Fan Railer

Lol, this is a metro, not high speed rail lmao.

In other news, the R179 has begun system-wide clearance testing as of a few days ago. Here is the train on the E @ Sutphin-Archer-JFK:


----------



## Fan Railer

"Climbing the ladder" at Jay Street - Metrotech last night:


----------



## luacstjh98

Why is it called "climbing the ladder"?


----------



## jay stew

W Train service added.


----------



## GojiMet86




----------



## Woonsocket54

Oct 2016 saw 10 days with subway ridership of more than 6 million

https://twitter.com/MTA_NYCT_Vocero/status/799346204614230016


----------



## teh_pwn

Are there any technical differences between the R160 and the R179? They look exactly the same.


----------



## Tower Dude

I think it's that the. R179s are CBTC ready.


----------



## 00Zy99

And some improved communications/display gear.

Can someone please move that Fordham Road post to the Commuter Rail thread where it belongs? Thanks.


----------



## Nexis

Taken on November 23rd

Dekalb Avenue





Court Street







Smith-9th Streets



Cortlandt Street


----------



## Woonsocket54

The Pennsylvania Avenue station on the







train in East New York, Brooklyn has been shut down for a month now with no end in sight. This is all because a truck crashed into the elevated platform. 

http://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs...ter-truck-crashes-into-station-structure.html


----------



## Miami High Rise

Wow, I've always thought of the possibility of things like this, especially in Queens with all those elevated columns right next to the street on the sidewalk, sometimes in the median of the road. It's almost one of those truck vs train.... and it's a draw, scenarios, like when a truck knocks a freight/Amtrak/commuter/"full rail" as I call it train off the tracks.


----------



## GojiMet86

*The R68 on the Brighton (Q) and the Sea Beach (N)*

IMG_1762 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1767 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1779 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1783 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1796 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1799 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1807 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1808 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1820 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1823 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## luacstjh98

2 questions from me:

1) How are gap fillers at places like South Ferry and 14th St - Union Square controlled?

2) What is NYCT's definition of platform edge doors? Do they mean a full-height installation like London or Paris, or lower, more fence-like designs as seen in Japan?


----------



## Woonsocket54

2 Av/96 St station










more photos here: https://www.timeout.com/newyork/blo...brand-new-second-avenue-subway-station-120116


----------



## Fan Railer

teh_pwn said:


> Are there any technical differences between the R160 and the R179? They look exactly the same.


R179 features:
- Bombardier propulsion and train software.
- Bombardier trucks instead of Kawasaki trucks
- Updated operating cab configuration (minor differences)
- Improved passenger stanchions.
- Other minor differences.


----------



## jay stew

In the late 1960s, there were plans to expand the Subway including building a line that would've ran along the Long Island Expressway.










http://secondavenuesagas.com/2008/06/04/the-1960s-subway-expansion-that-never-came-to-be/


----------



## Fan Railer

Chasing the R9s Saturday night (12/10/16). This is what will be running the remaining two Sundays of the schedule in December this year:


----------



## GojiMet86

IMG_1842 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1845 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1850 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1861 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1863 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1867 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1871 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1873 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1875 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1880 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1882 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1883 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1885 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1890 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1894 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1900 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1901 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1903 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## bd popeye

Wow! Those vintage subway cars ^^ look better than when I was a little boy 60 years or so ago...see those yellow seats? they were stuffed with straw.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

What does yellow line inside the train mean?


----------



## Alargule

Will it actually happen this year?


----------



## GojiMet86

_Night City Dream_ said:


> What does yellow line inside the train mean?



That's just the way they painted the R7A. It doesn't mean anything.




Alargule said:


> Will it actually happen this year?


Better not open this year.

I won't be in the country.


----------



## Woonsocket54

In addition to the Second Avenue Subway, the MTA had promised to open a new station on the Staten Island Railway. It might not open this year after all, but no one really cares. They can probably get away with never opening it LOL.

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/12/new_arthur_kill_sir_station_op.html


----------



## bd popeye

_I saw this from China.._





> A magnetic levitation train with graffiti runs in Changsha, east China's Hunan Province, Dec. 15, 2016. Twenty graffiti artists decorated the magnetic levitation trains recently to promote green transportation in Changsha. (Xinhua/Long Hongtao)


..and it reminded me of this during the 70s on the NYC subway.



The biggest difference the Chinese subway allowed "graffiti artists" to express their work on the cars...As we know in NYC this was some sort of 'expressionist vandal graffiti art"...<<<<...my words.


----------



## jay stew

^^The trains on the Rome Metro have plenty of graffiti on them.


----------



## streetscapeer

*Second Avenue Subway poised to open on New Year’s Eve*


----------



## phoenixboi08

oh, but will there be enough crow? :lol:


----------



## Fan Railer

Chasing the R1/9 Holiday Train today:


----------



## bodegavendetta

The NYT posted a story about the fabulous new art in the new 2nd ave stations.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/19/arts/design/second-avenue-subway-art.html

A sampling...


----------



## baronson

Some more artwork for the SAS from MTA's Flickr released today:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/sets/72157677942834956

Check em out, the stations look like they're going to be quite beautiful. There's about 32 photos grouped by station.


----------



## Fan Railer

Second Avenue Subway wrap trains awaiting opening date @ Coney Island:


----------



## Fan Railer

R179 10 car set (3010-3019) testing + delivery of first half of first 4 car set (3052-3053):


----------



## Woonsocket54

Governor Cuomo Debuts New Subway Station at 96th Street by governorandrewcuomo, on Flickr

96th Street Station of the Second Avenue Subway by governorandrewcuomo, on Flickr

96th Street Station of the Second Avenue Subway by governorandrewcuomo, on Flickr

96th Street Station of the Second Avenue Subway by governorandrewcuomo, on Flickr

96th Street Station of the Second Avenue Subway by governorandrewcuomo, on Flickr

96th Street Subway Station by governorandrewcuomo, on Flickr

96th Street Subway Station by governorandrewcuomo, on Flickr

96th Street Station of the Second Avenue Subway by governorandrewcuomo, on Flickr

96th Street Station of the Second Avenue Subway by governorandrewcuomo, on Flickr

96th Street Station of the Second Avenue Subway by governorandrewcuomo, on Flickr


----------



## CxIxMaN

finally there are no columns in the way near the platform edge


----------



## Bronxwood

MTA always using the same old cheap floor tiles that stain easily and are difficult to clean. The wall tiles, another poor choice, makes it look like a refurbished older station. Looks similar to the lexington avenue station on the culver line.


----------



## Suburbanist

When I write about how New York subway needs platform screen doors, it is - among other things - to prevent incidents like this


----------



## GojiMet86

*R160 (G) and Second Avenue Subway*


























IMG_4831 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4855 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4843 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4846 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4865 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4834 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4820 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4829 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4875 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4879 by GojiMet86, on Flickr




























IMG_4904 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4908 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4906 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4909 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4912 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4938 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4942 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4944 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4952 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4955 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4959 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4963 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4966 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4974 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4977 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4978 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4981 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4985 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4988 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4996 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## 00Zy99

Suburbanist said:


> When I write about how New York subway needs platform screen doors, it is - among other things - to prevent incidents like this


Given the gaps between railcars and the numerous other possible access points, platform doors will do little to stop deliberately stupid idiots like this. Improved security monitoring and increased penalties would be more useful. They should be hunting down that dumb-ass's IP and matching him to the video so they can toss him in jail.


----------



## GojiMet86

00Zy99 said:


> Given the gaps between railcars and the numerous other possible access points, platform doors will do little to stop deliberately stupid idiots like this. Improved security monitoring and increased penalties would be more useful. They should be hunting down that dumb-ass's IP and matching him to the video so they can toss him in jail.


There's a face reveal in his channel.


----------



## Suburbanist

00Zy99 said:


> Given the gaps between railcars and the numerous other possible access points, platform doors will do little to stop deliberately stupid idiots like this. Improved security monitoring and increased penalties would be more useful. They should be hunting down that dumb-ass's IP and matching him to the video so they can toss him in jail.


This guy is a British 17year old who calls himself an "urban explorer" and trespass all over the place. I came across him when one of his videos showed a guy who had died doing the same in Paris (the video was from other occasion, not from the accident which involved other person).

Anyway, he has his face all over the place and an Instagram account. So he could be traced easily I guess. This sort of stunt is becoming more popular among "daredevil" Youtubers, but I guess European teens underestimate how much legal trouble they might get themselves into pulling their stunts in US.





It is quite a stupid thing to do, dangerous, interferes with service. So maybe platform doors would prevent that. Or electric locks on train car doors that open automatically in case of an emergency, coupled with higher fences on elevated station roofs to prevent people using them as jumpboards.


----------



## 00Zy99

Well, somebody should call the police.


----------



## Miami High Rise

They must have done a deep cleaning or something, because those R32s are looking so much shinier than I've seen them. Especially the details around the rivets/roofs etc.


----------



## bd popeye

00Zy99 said:


> Well, somebody should call the police.


Yes I agree..to protect him from his own stupidity. One day in the Daily News there will be a headline.."Subway train Surfer mangled by the R tain"..yep..

..and the R 32 cars look really , really clean.


----------



## luacstjh98

I can't help but think that SAS Phase 3, if ever built, should come standard with CBTC and platform doors. If they don't want the full height designs, they can just go with half height gates like what the Japanese have.


----------



## phoenixboi08

luacstjh98 said:


> I can't help but think that SAS Phase 3, if ever built, should come standard with CBTC and platform doors. If they don't want the full height designs, they can just go with half height gates like what the Japanese have.


....phase 1 has CBTC installed alongside the legacy signaling system, AFAIK.


----------



## LTA1992

luacstjh98 said:


> Woah.
> 
> I can't help but think someone feels personally offended here at the thought of a 125th crosstown... Here's some whataboutism - if you think being forced to take a bus detour is bad, you might want to try living in Asia for a while. Train stations everywhere but they're all super-packed. For one, the average commuter at MTR Admiralty station can only expect to take the fifth Kowloon-bound train from when he reaches the Tsuen Wan Line platform, and they run at much better frequencies than the NYC Subway.
> 
> Here's an idea. Push 125/Lex east so that it's nearer to 2 Avenue as opposed to straddling Lexington and Park Avenues. The station is probably deep enough to allow escalators from the railroad north end of the platforms to bridge the gap to Park Avenue and Metro-North.
> 
> Flying junction between the 125th Crosstown (stopping only at 125/Lenox and 125/St. Nicholas beneath the ABCD platforms, and feeding into the layup tracks at 135) and the Bronx-bound SAS, which takes a sharp turn to follow Third Avenue.
> 
> Shuttle runs between the third platform at 125/Lex and 125/St Nicholas or 168/Broadway via CPW local, with some peak hour short-turn T trains extended up to 168/Broadway.


Not offended. When you read about the history of this system (and thus the history of modern New York City), you eventually run into two books. 722 Miles and The Routes Not Taken. On one side, you see how much work it took to get the subways built in the beginning. The sacrifices that had to be made. The cost, and the issues. On the other hand, you get routes that are not built, or led to the construction of existing ones. It wasn't until I read those that I began to see consequences of shortsightedness. From the words of the planners (like John Delaney and Daniel Turner [creator of the original SAS plan and the never built Metropolitan Transit System for the NY Metro Area]), the politicians (Had no idea who people like Henry Bruckner, Major Deegan, and James J. Lyons, and others were until I read those), and the residents. I have come to realize two things as a result. The People will screw themselves over constantly. Which is why the Flushing Line was never extended to 221st Street in Bayside. Secondly, put the reigns in the hands of Politicians, and nothing will get done. And if something does, it will not be what we need and a waste. We know that there is a HUGE housing crisis in this city. I'm homeless as well and it takes far too long for housing to open up. We KNOW The Bronx has vast swaths of neighborhoods that lost transit, or was built around transit that never came. They need the new service which then opens the door for new housing being built.

Buses aren't bad. But they are no substitution for already established rail service wich is what the former Bx55 LIMITED was created for. To replace the remaining section of Third Avenue Elevated. Hell, in some cases {Lexington Avenue in Bklyn), Elevated service was never replaced. Look at Third Avenue today. There are Three NYCHA developments with the largest being around 169th Street. The Hub, Tremont Avenue, and Fordham Road commercial districts. Numerous schools. Crotona, Tremont, Claremont, and Bronx Parks in short walking distance. Crotona having a public pool. Perfect for summertime. Fordham University as as well. Transit means better connectivity. Transit means better Quality of Life. Transit opens more oppertunities for employment and places of living. Harlem has all those things already. Third Avenue and the Southeast Bronx do not. We have an oppertunity to further the improvement The Bronx has been receiving since all the empty lots have been in the process of redevelopment all over the borough. A lot are along are near Third Avenue. This is also a chance to correct past mistakes so that the fastest growing of the five boroughs can handle it's future population.

My frustrations come from the repetition of past mistakes. i.e.: Burke Avenue extension of the Concourse D had funding. But it was redirected to par fir the Circumferential (Belt) Parkway. Eventually leading to the purchase of the NYW&B in use by the 5 service today.



Arnorian said:


> ***Haven't hit 10 posts yet, so I had to delete it***


Your map shows the basic ideas I've long held for Bronx SAS service. Except that the South Bronx Line should break away at 163rd Street, following the Second Phase IND route plan. Providing transfers to the 6 at Hunts Point Avenue as well to create extra capacity for those getting on after that point who may transfer to the T at 138 and Third. Transfers to the 2 and 5 around Intervale Avenue for people who want to get to the North Bronx as well as those who want to "bypass" transferring at 3rd and 149th. This creates ample room for passengers south of that point for both the Lex and Lenox Lines. However, this map continues to show the issue with 125th Street service. If each pair of tracks can carry 30 trains per hour theoretically, then why is it that either passengers from the Central or East Bronx won't have direct downtown service? That is a waste of passenger throughput and would, in fact, turn people off to using it. Secondly, visibly seeing the Third Avenue Line, even if it does end at Fordham Plaza as a first phase (which this map ends at St. Barnabas Hosp one station south), shows why a 125th Street crosstown will not do. The D is packed by Fordham Road in the morning rush (which is why I take the Bx9 to Kingsbridge Road if I go to work from her house near the Bronx Zoo. Its one stop north, but I get a seat as I work in Brooklyn). All those passengers that would need to cram in their would have another alternative that would hit all the same Midtown destinations the 6th Avenue Line does. Extend the line up to Webster and BPB before cutting through Bronx Park to Co-Op City for another transfer to the 2, and we have a line sucking in passengers from the East and West that would normally utilize crosstown buses to the 2, 4, 5, and D. Now those crosstowns will have sufficient capacity to not only have ample room for those heading into upper Manhattan, but increase overall reliability of the routes. In doing that, with the extra Bronx transfers, residents in Harlem should have no issue getting a train on the first attempt. Or a seat for that matter.



00Zy99 said:


> Arnorian, I don't think that will give adequate coverage to the Bronx. *I would at LEAST put the Dyre Ave Line into the SAS.* And extend the Third Ave Line further north.


That's no longer possible. New developments have long blocked the former route of the New York Westchester & Boston right of way it would have used. Besides, the new lines to the Central and East Bronx will do the needed job.



luacstjh98 said:


> I can't help but think that SAS Phase 3, if ever built, should come standard with CBTC and platform doors. If they don't want the full height designs, they can just go with half height gates like what the Japanese have.
> 
> All signals on the new lines can handle CBTC. Futureproofing for when they lines eventually get them. The only things they would really need to add are the recievers on the tracks when the retrofit happens. The 7 extension was built like that as well, but the line was already in the process of CBTC conversion. Which, BTW, the northernmost section of Flushing CBTC should become active sometime this year.


You all know the drill.


----------



## 00Zy99

The land is owned by the MTA. They have provisions for the Westchester still hanging around deep in the archives.


----------



## krnboy1009

00Zy99 said:


> Given the gaps between railcars and the numerous other possible access points, platform doors will do little to stop deliberately stupid idiots like this. Improved security monitoring and increased penalties would be more useful. They should be hunting down that dumb-ass's IP and matching him to the video so they can toss him in jail.


This is the same guy that broke in to West Ham and Arsenal Stadium at night and climbed to the roof.


----------



## LTA1992

00Zy99 said:


> The land is owned by the MTA. They have provisions for the Westchester still hanging around deep in the archives.


But there are literal buildings on one old elevated ROW in places. Right across the street from the old 180 Street station, there is a new apartment building standing right where the ramp down to the Amtrak ROW used to be. Secondly, while I will say that connecting Dyre Avenue to SAS would allow all 5 service to serve WPR (and possibly bring back Thru-Express service to Gun Hill Road), a transfer to the Third Avenue Branch at either Burke or Allerton Avenues would take passengers of that line and onto the much faster route downtown. It would also remove service from the southeast Bronx.


----------



## jay stew

Suburbanist said:


> When I write about how New York subway needs platform screen doors, it is - among other things - to prevent incidents like this


This is what happens when you play too much Subway Surfers on your phone.


----------



## 00Zy99

LTA1992 said:


> But there are literal buildings on one old elevated ROW in places. Right across the street from the old 180 Street station, there is a new apartment building standing right where the ramp down to the Amtrak ROW used to be.


Those couple buildings are on leases to the MTA. They can be removed if necessary.



> Secondly, while I will say that connecting Dyre Avenue to SAS would allow all 5 service to serve WPR (and possibly bring back Thru-Express service to Gun Hill Road), a transfer to the Third Avenue Branch at either Burke or Allerton Avenues would take passengers of that line and onto the much faster route downtown. It would also remove service from the southeast Bronx.


This is very confusing. It took me a while to determine that you meant White Plains Road and not Wyoming Public Radio. I'm not sure what you are saying with the rest.


----------



## LTA1992

00Zy99 said:


> Those couple buildings are on leases to the MTA. They can be removed if necessary.
> 
> 
> 
> This is very confusing. It took me a while to determine that you meant White Plains Road and not Wyoming Public Radio. I'm not sure what you are saying with the rest.


Um...what? No they can't be destroyed. First off, you can't just destroy housing. The eminent domain law doesn't allow it. If you are going to destroy buildings, you need to compensate the residents plus business owner. Secondly, if there were ANY plans to build there, the MTA wouldn't have allowed it. But there are several new apartments down the line. Three to be exact. Followed by an empty lot, then the West Farms Bus Depot. Third, the MTA needs every bit of revenue it can get. Real estate is one of them. Fourth, the MTA is a public service entity. It would be counter intuitive to destroy housing for the public in the areas where the existence of rapid transit is a lifeline. There is absolutely no chance for that idea to come to fruition without pissing off a lot of people in an area where most are below the poverty line AND housing is severely limited because there just isn't enough. The waiting list for NYCHA is 10 years. Affordable Housing units are opened much faster, but there is still a lottery process. In fact, I think those apartments were affordable housing, actually. I remember seeing on NYC Housing Connect about apartments in Van Nest a few years back. There is no chance the MTA is gonna have those new housing units removed.

I will explain clearer. If there was any chance that the MTA would destroy those three apartment structures and a part of their bus depot to connect SAS to the current Dyre Avenue Line, it would not do much to relieve East Side congestion. The Dyre Avenue Line doesn't serve that many riders. When the MTA first proposed an SAS connection via the NYW&B as per the 1968 Program For Action expansion plans, it also included a conversion of the Pelham Line to B Division service (All Dual System structures can handle B Division trains. The Platforms just need to be shaved back when it comes to former IRT lines) and a parallel subway line to the MNRR tracks on Park Avenue. This was during a time when SAS was planned to have even less stops, a Rich Mans Express so to speak, and run with automated high speed trains (R44 and R46). The safety buffer was also not as big. So you could reasonably fit three services onto a pair of tracks.

Today, that isn't possible. Unless in special cases (60th Street Tunnel), the MTA has a policy of no more than two services per pair of tracks. After the 1995 Williamsburg Bridge Accident, the safety buffer was increased. Further reducing the room for a third service on pairs of track unless in special cases. That would reduce service to levels too small to meet needs. 

If there were any possibility of the old NYW&B connection to be rebuilt so SAS can replace 5 service along the Dyre, then either a Third Avenue Line (which could provide a transfer to the WPR at either Burke or Allerton Avenue stations on its way to Co-Op City) or a Lafayette Avenue (South Bronx) Line would need to be axed. 

So while you are increasing service in areas that already have it, you are taking away the opportunity for areas that do not have, to have.

Does that make more sense? I tried not to type as I think so it could be more coherent.


----------



## Fan Railer

The MTA ran a few extra trains yesterday for the Women's March crowds. This means rare rolling stock on lines they don't normally run  :


----------



## Woonsocket54

"*South Ferry Station to Reopen in June, Years After Sandy Damage, MTA Says*"










https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20170123/financial-district/south-ferry-1-train-station-reopen


----------



## Woonsocket54

*Arthur Kill station opening - 2017.01.21*

"*Staten Island Railway debuts first new station in nearly 50 years*"

http://ny.curbed.com/2017/1/23/14360206/staten-island-railway-arthur-kill-station














https://twitter.com/BreakinNewsBoy/status/822972142388133888









https://twitter.com/BreakinNewsBoy/status/822972142388133888









https://twitter.com/BreakinNewsBoy/status/822972142388133888


----------



## streetscapeer

*MTA's $72M subway renovations will begin with three Brooklyn stations*



> ...now the agency has announced that the *first set of 30 subway stations to receive a facelift will be three stations along the R line in Brooklyn*.
> 
> *The Prospect Avenue, Bay Ridge Avenue, and 53rd Street trains stations on the R line* will each *close for a six-month period to receive “extensive renovations”* as part of the MTA and Governor Cuomo’s $72 million Enhanced Station Initiative. Once the work is complete, each station will debut with *new platform edges, LED lighting, granite floors, improved station signage, new stairs, increased security cameras and Help Points, as well as upgraded electrical and communications systems. Commuters will also get to enjoy electronic charging stations, new benches, and new station art.
> 
> Beginning March 27th, the 53rd Street Station will close for service in both directions; the Bay Ridge Avenue station is scheduled to close on April 29th for six months; and the Prospect Avenue station is scheduled to close on June 5th for six months.
> 
> Renovations for all [30] stations in the project are expected to be complete by 2020.*


----------



## Bronxwood

All of this is pointless if they dont address the rain runoff issue. On rainy days, water pours into these stations from the street level vents, damaging the ceiling, columns, track bed and rails over time. It's a real mess.


----------



## mrsmartman

They should renovate the stations with highest ridership first, preferably in the Financial District. It is sad that the IRT/BMT station tiles will be removed. It will be a great endeavor to remove the supporting columns.


----------



## webeagle12

mrsmartman said:


> They should renovate the stations with highest ridership first, preferably in the Financial District. It is sad that the IRT/BMT station tiles will be removed. It will be a great endeavor to remove the supporting columns.


Since its a "new" design where many changes are made, its better to test it out in real world at small places and the roll out to big stations. That way they can modify things a little of it's necessary. And don't it's not always top guy first/ bottom guy last.


----------



## LTA1992

I hope this is a success. I noticed European systems tend to close their stations for renovations so this could very well be more efficient.



mrsmartman said:


> They should renovate the stations with highest ridership first, preferably in the Financial District. It is sad that the IRT/BMT station tiles will be removed. It will be a great endeavor to remove the supporting columns.


That makes no sense. Test it in low ridership locations first, then move up. I feel like if this is a big success, Chambers Street on the Nassau Street Line will finally get renovated.

Also, these tiles are just the tiles currently in place along most of the 4th Avenue Line and Lower Broadway. The original tiles are actually under the 70s era ones. It would be nice if they exposed those original tiles again like they did on Upper Broadway.


----------



## mrsmartman

*Sources: MTA Capital Construction President Retiring*



NY1 News said:


> NEW YORK - A critical figure at the Metropolitan Transportation Authority is hanging up his hard hat.
> 
> Sources tell NY1 that MTA Capital Construction President Michael Horodniceanu is retiring.
> 
> He had been at the helm of the authority's construction wing since 2008 where he oversaw major expansion projects in the city's transit system including the Hudson Yards 7 train extension, the Second Avenue subway, and the Fulton Center station.
> 
> Before joining the MTA, the Romanian-born engineer had served as the city's Traffic Commissioner in the late 80s.


Video: http://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs...-capital-construction-president-retiring.html


----------



## Fan Railer

More Bombardier R179 testing:


----------



## urgel23

Updated map of the NYC subway:








http://www.cityrailtransit.com/maps/new_york_city_subway_map.htm


----------



## Arnorian

I was afraid cityrailtransit.com was abandoned, I'm glad it's not.


----------



## GojiMet86

IMG_6554 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6547 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6524 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6514 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6543 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6540 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6485 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6490 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6492 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6500 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6516 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6266 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6271 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6430 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6436 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6042 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6043 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6051 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5854 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5877 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5881 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5847 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## Fan Railer

R17 Redbird Car 6688 was saved and currently resides at The Shore Line Trolley Museum in Connecticut. The car was recently chartered for use in NYC, so here it is being prepped for highway transport from East Haven, CT to Brooklyn, NY:


----------



## Fan Railer

More R179 deliveries:


----------



## Miami High Rise

That was, A LOT of fanfare and long time for part of the GW being closed for a couple subway cars. 
I hope it's not this bad for all 200 or so, and for the 1500 R211s.


----------



## luacstjh98

Didn't they use to float cars into 207th yard on a barge?


----------



## phoenixboi08

It could have been a concern about weight? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## elliot42

luacstjh98 said:


> Didn't they use to float cars into 207th yard on a barge?


-- I don't know, but given that there was a float bridge on that site, I would assume so:

http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/indloco/nycta207.html


----------



## 00Zy99

A bit odd, considering that they designed the bridge to carry IND subway trains in the first place.

At one point, cars were brought by rail over the Hell Gate Bridge or via the Greenpoint/Bay Ridge carfloats. Until the 1970s, they came in on their own wheels.


----------



## Fan Railer

Wide loads in general are handled this way over the bridge. I edited out the other loads that crossed along with the R179s, but there were lots of bridge beams, other pieces of rail equipment, excavators, etc.


----------



## Nexis




----------



## nylkoorB

When can we expect these R179s to enter service?

And is it too soon to ask about Phase II of the Second avenue Subway?


----------



## Fan Railer

nylkoorB said:


> When can we expect these R179s to enter service?
> 
> And is it too soon to ask about Phase II of the Second avenue Subway?


The 10-car set of R179s enters its 30-day revenue test this summer. Come back and ask about Phase II of SAS in 8 years lol.

Anyways, here is my chase of the Yankees Home Opener IRT Lo-V Special through The Bronx:


----------



## mrsmartman

The shiny NTT is in stark contrast with the dimly lit station. MTA should repaint their trains.


----------



## mrsmartman

Source: http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/subway/


----------



## Fan Railer

Redacted.


----------



## mrsmartman

*Park Row (BMT station)*
_Brooklyn Bridge–City Hall_










Read More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park_Row_(BMT_station)


----------



## Nexis

> *IRT Eastern Parkway Line*
> 
> *Grand Army Plaza*


...


----------



## Nexis

> *BMT Brighton Line *
> 
> *Cortelyou Road*


...


----------



## Nexis

> *BMT Brighton Line *
> 
> *Newkirk Plaza*


...


----------



## Nexis

> BMT Brighton Line
> 
> Sheepshead Bay


...


----------



## Nexis

> *BMT West End Line*
> 
> *18th Avenue*


...


----------



## Nexis

> *BMT Fourth Avenue Line *
> 
> *Bay Ridge Avenue*


...


----------



## Nexis

> *IRT/BMT @ Queensboro Plaza*


...


----------



## bd popeye

> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: IND Queens Boulevard Line
> Location: Queens Plaza
> Car: R-179 (Bombardier, 2016-) 3014
> Photo by: Jose Garrido
> Date: 11/19/2016
> Notes: R-179 testing.






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: BMT 4th Avenue
> Location: 36th Street
> Route: B
> Car: R-1 (American Car & Foundry, 1930-1931) 247
> Photo by: Joe Testagrose
> Date: 2/26/1968






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: BMT Canarsie Line
> Location: 8th Avenue
> Route: L
> Car: R-7A (Pullman, 1938) 1575
> Photo by: Doug Grotjahn
> Collection of: Joe Testagrose
> Date: 1/17/1971
> Notes: R10 prototype






> City: New York
> System: New York City Transit
> Line: BMT Astoria Line
> Location: Broadway
> Route: EE
> Car: R-6-3 (American Car & Foundry, 1935) 1042
> Collection of: David Pirmann
> Date: 11/20/1970


----------



## GojiMet86

*Mets' Opening Day 2017: The Train of Many Colors*

DSC00195 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

DSC00199 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

DSC00203 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

DSC00206 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

DSC00207 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

DSC00212 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

DSC00214 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

DSC00218 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

DSC00219 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

DSC00221 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

DSC00224 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

DSC00226 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

DSC00227 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

DSC00228 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

DSC00231 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

DSC00249 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## mrsmartman




----------



## Tower Dude

We have a new head of Capital Construction 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/19/nyregion/janno-lieber-mta-world-trade-center-silverstein.html


> A real estate executive who played a prominent role in rebuilding the World Trade Center complex in Lower Manhattan will join the Metropolitan Transportation Authority to oversee its large infrastructure projects, officials said on Wednesday.
> The executive, Janno Lieber, is leaving Silverstein Properties, a real estate firm, for a new role as chief development officer at the authority, which runs New York City’s subways, buses and commuter railroads. Starting in May, Mr. Lieber will manage the agency’s capital projects and real estate assets, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo said


----------



## nylkoorB

Has anyone ever been on one of those old vintage trains? I never have but I heard that they left the old advertisements up from back in their day. I would love to go on just for that reason.


----------



## bd popeye

nylkoorB said:


> Has anyone ever been on one of those old vintage trains? I never have but I heard that they left the old advertisements up from back in their day. I would love to go on just for that reason.


I have. The real deal. Not a rail fan trip.Back in the 50s & 60s.

I remember those ads and public service placards. I'm 63 years young. Here's a few;


----------



## luacstjh98

nylkoorB said:


> Has anyone ever been on one of those old vintage trains? I never have but I heard that they left the old advertisements up from back in their day. I would love to go on just for that reason.


Aren't there vintage stock parked at the Transit Museum?


----------



## bd popeye

luacstjh98 said:


> Aren't there vintage stock parked at the Transit Museum?


Yes..

*New York Transit Museum*


----------



## luacstjh98

It's a simple trick of journalism - make things sound worse than they are, so you can get public support for any improvements...

Imagine being told that the 4 5 and 6 ran at a combined 29tph! You'll wonder how the riders survived between the closing of the 3rd Ave El and the opening of the SAS!


----------



## mrsmartman

*MTA blames typo for ‘d–k passenger’ tweet*



New York Post said:


> Straphangers really got the shaft Friday evening!
> 
> The MTA in a tweet blamed a “d–k” passenger for service changes on the 1, 2, and 3 lines.
> 
> The transit agency tweeted the news as an explanation for why northbound 1 trains are currently running express from Chambers street to 14 Street.
> 
> In an accompanying graphic, however, the blame is laid on a “sick” passenger...


Read More: http://nypost.com/2017/05/05/mta-blames-typo-for-d-k-passenger-tweet/


----------



## mrsmartman




----------



## mrsmartman




----------



## GojiMet86

http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_i...geographically-accurate-nyc-subway-track-map/


----------



## Alargule

Wow, that's übercool. Unfortunately the link to the full-size pdf file isn't working.


----------



## 00Zy99

Its working now.

EVERYBODY needs to download this. It is amazingly complete, and its only about 750 KB.


----------



## Nexis

> *Beach 44th Street - Frank Avenue *


...


----------



## Nexis

> *Broad Channel *


..


----------



## iiConTr0v3rSYx

The length of the A line is so impressive.


----------



## elliot42

MInd if I use this to re-do my fantasy NYC expansion map? This makes everything so much more visible!

(FTM; has the MTA seen this? it seems like this is better than theirs.)



GojiMet86 said:


> http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_i...geographically-accurate-nyc-subway-track-map/


----------



## MrAronymous

Anything would be more legible than theirs. But this map isn't really suited for public use.


----------



## GojiMet86

elliot42 said:


> MInd if I use this to re-do my fantasy NYC expansion map? This makes everything so much more visible!
> 
> (FTM; has the MTA seen this? it seems like this is better than theirs.)



I guess? That map is not mine.


----------



## 00Zy99

Make sure to link the fantasy map here when you are done!


----------



## Oasis-Bangkok

34 Street-Hudson Yard Subway Station










7 Train Extension, 03.20.16 by gigi_nyc, on Flickr










7 Train Extension, 03.20.16 by gigi_nyc, on Flickr










7 Train Extension, 03.20.16 by gigi_nyc, on Flickr










7 Train Extension, 03.20.16 by gigi_nyc, on Flickr










7 Train Extension, 03.20.16 by gigi_nyc, on Flickr










7 Train Extension, 03.20.16 by gigi_nyc, on Flickr










7 Train Extension, 03.20.16 by gigi_nyc, on Flickr










7 Train Extension, 03.20.16 by gigi_nyc, on Flickr


----------



## carl_Alm

Amazing! opcorn:


----------



## mrsmartman

*Frequency on Q to increase (SAS)*


----------



## Arnorian

Full system track map with proposed changes to 2nd Av Subway plan.



http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_index/2017/05/the-future-of-the-2nd-avenue-subway/


----------



## mrsmartman

The Second Avenue Subway should be built by the "cut-and-cover" method.

The fourth phase to downtown should also be built.


----------



## bd popeye

mrsmartman said:


> The Second Avenue Subway should be built by the "cut-and-cover" method.
> 
> The fourth phase to downtown should also be built.


Cut and cover was a great method to build back 100+years ago. Today there is too much infrastructure directly under the streets of NYC to use the cut and cover method. 100+ years ago this was not a problem


----------



## Fan Railer

R179 testing continues, both on Brighton and at Broad Channel. Enjoy, along with some action from the Brighton Line:


----------



## LTA1992

Alargule said:


> A Freudian slip of the keys? Or did you intentionally frame Cuomo as The Problem®?


He is head of New York State. New York State funds the MTA.

It was HE who called the original 32 Billion 2015-19 Capital program "bloated" and forced the MTA to lower the needed amount. And now look where we are. He does nothing to stop money from being funneled out of the MTA, but at the same time, can railroad new bridges and airport modifications straight through with ease. He has no issue taking credit for projects he never even got going (his father is the one who got the studies for the modern SAS going), but is nowhere to be seen when problems do arise. He is a joke and I can't wait to see him gone. You'd think the system that allows the States largest municipality to give it billions every year would be better attended to.

But nope. F*ck me and the other 6 Million souls who rely on it on the daily.

Can't wait to see the state of the 2020-24 CP.


----------



## Fan Railer

2 Trains @ New South Ferry due to long term weekend Clark Street Tube shutdown:


----------



## Miami High Rise

Looks like they picked the R32 to get a cameo in the new Spider Man, Homecoming. 

https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/5/1...mecoming-iron-man-vulture-trailer-scenes-cuts


----------



## Fan Railer

R179 3050-3057 out on the C line conducting simulated stop testing last night:


----------



## Miami High Rise

^^
Hint at earlier R32 retirement?


----------



## luacstjh98

The intention of the R179 order is to replace the R32s.

However, some are expected to stick around until the R211s come, mainly because the R179 fleet is also needed for fleet expansion...


----------



## LTA1992

luacstjh98 said:


> The intention of the R179 order is to replace the R32s.
> 
> However, some are expected to stick around until the R211s come, mainly because the R179 fleet is also needed for fleet expansion...


The only fleet expansion the R179 is to cover is the 4 extra trains needed due to SAS phase one opening. Essentially, the 20 R32s and 8 R68As on the (A) will be placed elsewhere as the 40 R179s in 5-car sets will now be able to cover the service. The 179 will replace about half the R32s.

Any R32s that will stay are to provide extra G and J service due to the 14th Street Tube closure. The R211 will kill those cars, replace the R46 and remaining R44s, and expand the fleet.


----------



## iiConTr0v3rSYx

Chambers street station has to be the nastiest station in the city....


----------



## Woonsocket54

iiConTr0v3rSYx said:


> Chambers street station has to be the nastiest station in the city....


as well as Bowery station.


----------



## mrsmartman




----------



## Miami High Rise

Looks like some R32s should still make it to 2020:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/06/nyregion/how-did-the-subway-get-so-bad-look-to-the-c-train.html

How Did the Subway Get So Bad? Look to the C Train
By MARC SANTORAJUNE 6, 2017



> Still, the old R32 cars will not be taken out of service right away.
> 
> The authority is concerned that they will be needed in 2019, when it shuts down a tunnel under the East River to
> repair damage caused by Hurricane Sandy, disrupting L train service between Brooklyn and Manhattan.
> 
> Tens of thousands of commuters will be seeking alternative routes and the old workhorse, stainless-steel Brightliners
> will be pressed into service yet again before they can finally be retired.


There were more R179 problems than I thought, and only one test track causing testing to last a year?


----------



## luacstjh98

It might be somewhat politically unpalatable, especially with the announcement of the R211s, but how about expanding the R179 order (maybe an R179A for Kawasaki/Alstom) to fully replace the R32s?


----------



## LTA1992

luacstjh98 said:


> It might be somewhat politically unpalatable, especially with the announcement of the R211s, but how about expanding the R179 order (maybe an R179A for Kawasaki/Alstom) to fully replace the R32s?


Not possible at this juncture. First off, those extra cars would be a whole new contract as option cars were never a part of the current R179 contract. They would thus need to be under a new contract and put out to bid. At the minimum, that's two years.

The R211 order will be awarded by the end of the summer anyway with the first cars arriving in 2019 and revenue service starting in 2020. All cars, base and possible options, should be in service by 2026 if there are no delays. R211A cars first as they are easier to build, could all be here between 2020 and 2023. R211T cars from 2023 to 2026.

Side note, if all options are exercised, the R211 order will be the new largest single car order, overtaking the R160 by 33 cars.

R160 - 1,662
R211 - 1,695


----------



## 00Zy99

With the R211 completion, it will just be the 1980s-vintage R60-series and the new technology trains, correct? And I seem to recall that the R62/R68 are highly reliable.


----------



## Woonsocket54

*Spoiler alerts*

This is interesting - next train (not next "scheduled" train) countdown clocks on the R and N trains.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/commen...lly_showing_countdown_clocks/#bottom-comments

Probably wildly inaccurate but still...


----------



## luacstjh98

Woonsocket54 said:


> This is interesting - next train (not next "scheduled" train) countdown clocks on the R and N trains.
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/commen...lly_showing_countdown_clocks/#bottom-comments
> 
> Probably wildly inaccurate but still...


I believe they're using a form of homebrew ATS involving train-mounted trackers and station WiFi to get a rough location of a train. Then, that powers the countdown clocks.

(or at least that's what I know, will the NYers please advise)


----------



## LTA1992

luacstjh98 said:


> I believe they're using a form of homebrew ATS involving train-mounted trackers and station WiFi to get a rough location of a train. Then, that powers the countdown clocks.
> 
> (or at least that's what I know, will the NYers please advise)


It's pretty much what you said minus the ATS factor. While the public will have a near accurate arrival time, control towers still won't exactly know where the trains are.

No word on how far away ISIM-B is.

For those who don't know, ISIM-B is pretty much ATS-A for B Division.


----------



## SSMEX

LTA1992 said:


> It's pretty much what you said minus the ATS factor. While the public will have a near accurate arrival time, control towers still won't exactly know where the trains are.
> 
> No word on how far away ISIM-B is.
> 
> For those who don't know, ISIM-B is pretty much ATS-A for B Division.


Can someone who's well read on the NYC Subway signaling system explain the big picture with regards to signaling modernization? Here's my understanding of what's going on:


Block signals have been used since the system was started. Block signals are electromechanical and divide the track length into discrete sections. When a train is occupying a particular block, the system signals to upstream trains that the blocks ahead are occupied.
The A Division is fully equipped with ATS-A (except on the Flushing Line), which provides real time train position data to the dispatcher and allows the dispatcher to reroute trains, but does not replace the block signals—they're simply a system built on top of them. ATS achieves much of what CBTC does, but without its precision or mechanical simplicity. The A Division countdown clocks use ATS-A for timing data.
The B Division won't be getting ATS-A, but rather the simpler ISIM-B (how does ISIM-B different from ATS-A)? ISIM-B installation won't be complete until 2020. The B Division countdown clocks use yet another system based on Bluetooth consumer hardware that tracks trains to the nearest upstream station to provide an ETA for the countdown clocks.
The L train uses a Siemens CBTC system, but block signaling is still used (why?).
The Flushing Line uses a Thales CBTC system, which should've been complete in 2016.
CBTC will eventually installed on the entire system at roughly 15-20 miles per year, with most of the system equipped by 2029, but block signals will continue to be used even after full CBTC installation.

A few follow up questions:

Does the current block signaling system provide PTC?
If the block signal can track a train down to a particular 1,000 ft block, why can't it provide countdown clock data and isn't a 1,000 ft block more precise than the Bluetooth-based system being installed on the B Division, which is only precise down to the station?
Why oh why oh why is block signaling still necessary after a full CBTC buildout?

Thanks in advance for any feedback!


----------



## Fan Railer

In the event of a CBTC failure, how do you suggest service continue if block signalling is not modernized and retained as a backup system? This is a problem on the Canarsie Line, because when the Siemens CBTC system was installed a decade ago, the need for a backup system was not thought of, and many of the old fixed block signals in the underground section of the line were ripped out. As a result, now, if you need to bring a non-CBTC compatible train onto the Canarsie Line, you must institute absolute block operations, meaning that the non-compatible train must be the ONLY train in any given absolute block section (which are ridiculously long due to the lack of actual blocks on the line now; I forget the exact limits, but I think B-Junction to Myrtle is one block, Myrtle to Lorimer is one block, and Lorimer to 8th Av is one block). Same is true if CBTC were to fail completely; the result of such a failure would be that between Broadway Junction and 8th Avenue you could only have 2-3 trains running in each direction, and each train would not be allowed to proceed into the next block until the train in front had exited said block. The result would be something like 20-30+ min headways or something like that.

Because of this problem, future CBTC installation in the system includes the modernization of the existing fixed block aspect system to allow for backup operations. On the Flushing Line, they're leaving enough wayside signals in place so that should a non-compatible train need to run, or if there is a failure in the system, they are still able to run trains on a 5-minute headway.

To answer your other question, the current fixed block system does provide some form of PTC, in that it satisfies two of the four primary characteristics listed below [satisfied parameters indicated by asterisk]:

-Train separation or collision avoidance*
-Line speed enforcement*
-Temporary speed restrictions
-Rail worker wayside safety

The first characteristic is satisfied by the use of the automatic stop arms attached to the signal cases and trip cocks on the trains, which will trigger an emergency brake application if the train operator runs a red signal.

The second characteristic is satisfied by the use of timed signals, which remain at danger (red) until an automatic timer has expired. When a train enters a block or blocks of track where line speed is enforced, the train operator sees the speed sign alerting him/her that the train has entered a timed section, and the timer is triggered. If the train is travelling sufficiently slow, the timer will expire before the train reaches the signal displaying danger, and the signal will clear, allowing the train to pass. IF the train is speeding, it will reach the signal before the timer expires, thus causing an emergency brake application via the mechanics of the first satisfied characteristic.

The current fixed block system cannot enforce temporary speed restrictions, nor can it provide RWP. So in that sense, it is not a full PTC system.


----------



## JohnDee

sotonsi said:


> ^^ despite that, there are some valid points like lack of departure boards and dirty stations that are objectively true. And likewise, while this is just one person's anecdotes, they join the chorus of similar complaints from tourists and newcomers about the complex system and lack of help from signs, maps, staff, locals, etc.
> 
> Has the NYC Subway fixed these issues in the last 3 years? If not then the age of the article is irrelevant. OK, departure boards have come in recently at a handful of stations, but there's still not a lot.


System is very easy to use if you can read a map. most tourists aren't idiots. 

The comparison is unfair as London gets far more money to upgrade it's stations because London is the capital of the UK where all the big projects and money go.. centralized economy.


----------



## nylkoorB

sotonsi said:


> ^^ despite that, there are some valid points like lack of departure boards and dirty stations that are objectively true. And likewise, while this is just one person's anecdotes, they join the chorus of similar complaints from tourists and newcomers about the complex system and lack of help from signs, maps, staff, locals, etc.
> 
> Has the NYC Subway fixed these issues in the last 3 years? If not then the age of the article is irrelevant. OK, departure boards have come in recently at a handful of stations, but there's still not a lot.


Countdown clocks are coming to all the trains that don't currently have them. Countdown clocks have been on the 1,2,3,4,5,6 and L for a while now, so that leaves the 7 and the rest of the letters. 

The R and C now have countdown clocks in all stations as of a few weeks ago. The A and the N, Q, and W have some as well but not in all stations yet. 

The MTA is expected to have them on all lines by the end of the year. They released a schedule for when each train is going to get them. I saw it a few weeks ago but I can't seem to find it anymore for the life of me. If someone can find it I would really appreciate it if you could post here. I'll try to look some more. IIRC, the J and the F are expected to get them in November, and the M either this month or September. I think the G is also supposed to be getting them this month too. Again, I'm just going by memory though. I'm going to see if I can find it again.


----------



## sotonsi

^^ That's good news and should actually beat London on that front soon, where there's a handful of stations on the edge that don't have them, and other places where they are truly terrible.



JohnDee said:


> System is very easy to use if you can read a map. most tourists aren't idiots.


There's a reason KickMap can charge $2.99 for the NYC version, and only the default $0.99 for the other cities' maps in the App Store - the official MTA map is overly-complicated and KickMap's far more usable, whereas the other cities' official maps are fine and the KickMap of the city mostly is interesting, rather than providing usefulness.

Scientific research has the official NYC map the worst in the world for usability, though part of that is the complexity of the network (still loses to Tokyo and Paris' complex spaghetti). No wonder that even the MTA's Weekender goes diagrammatic (seemingly copying KickMap, rather than Vingelli) rather than using the standard map - it's far easier to understand.

Tourist aren't idiots, hence why they typically complain about the map being crap.


> The comparison is unfair as London gets far more money to upgrade it's stations


I'm not talking about station upgrades.


> because London is the capital of the UK where all the big projects


I'm not talking about big projects either.


> and money go.


I'm not talking about expensive things. Sure, cleaning the system more often will cost money. Likewise additional signs and diagrams will add up, however we're not talking big-ticket items individually.

The NYC Subway is fantastic. However it's daunting and confusing if you don't what you are doing, because you get very little help.


----------



## Woonsocket54

nylkoorB said:


> The MTA is expected to have them on all lines by the end of the year. They released a schedule for when each train is going to get them. I saw it a few weeks ago but I can't seem to find it anymore for the life of me. If someone can find it I would really appreciate it if you could post here. I'll try to look some more. IIRC, the J and the F are expected to get them in November, and the M either this month or September. I think the G is also supposed to be getting them this month too. Again, I'm just going by memory though. I'm going to see if I can find it again.


Here it is. This and $4 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.










Like any MTA pronouncement, this should be taken with a very heavy dose of NaCl.

http://licpost.com/subway-countdown-clocks-to-be-installed-across-7-line-in-december


----------



## WillBuild

*New York Today: New Subway Clocks*

The Times has the same story on the countdown clocks.

This is a small bright spot and really a smart project. Based on the earlier successful relatively cheap roll-out of bustime, the project decouples best effort information from critical signal infrastructure roll-out.

The information signs don't need the same high standards of accuracy, and even at the current 97% accuracy are already a huge boon. With the roll-out of wifi at all underground stations, it becomes feasible to install bluetooth beacons on the trains cheaply and have the stations forward this to a central system.

A simple solution, but a huge advance over the old lack of any central information about train location.

I happened to have to travel to JFK yesterday morning early. No E service to JFK, so only the A with headways of 25 minutes or so. This was a lifesaver. Could get a coffee and walk into W4 a few minutes early, as opposed to run with a bag, then wait around a dirty, humid platform for eternity, without coffee.

*Great work, whoever stuck his or her neck out for this one.*

Okay, end of rant (rave!). Back to the quote and then our regular scheduled program of MTA bashing.

Per the Times:



> A New York Times analysis of subway data found a shortage of trains not only at peak times but throughout the day.
> 
> Given this dim outlook, we set out to find a bright spot, something to make us feel good on our Monday morning commute. We found it in the glowing LED clocks along the C line that were recently installed by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority.
> 
> We spoke to Veronique Hakim, the managing director of the transportation authority, about the new clocks and when you can expect them in your station.
> 
> The clocks use new technology. How does it work?
> 
> The recently installed clocks use the existing wireless network, rather than the previous system on the numbered lines, which used the signal network. Bluetooth receivers are installed in stations and on the front and back car of each train, which act “almost like little GPS devices,” Ms. Hakim said. The transportation authority monitors when trains enter and leave the station, and uses that information to display their estimated arrival times at the next station.


----------



## LTA1992

Whoever thinks the current NYC subway map design is difficult has no clue how hard it used to be. This is the simplest it's ever been.

We've tried schematic designs. Didn't work.


----------



## MrAronymous

But what if there were something in between confusing and schematic

Oh wait there is









The KickMap


----------



## LTA1992

MrAronymous said:


> But what if there were something in between confusing and schematic
> 
> Oh wait there is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The KickMap


Geography being the first, main, problem. It's why the current version exists in the first place. Secondly, all those extra lines are unneeded and adds it's own type of clutter. Not to mention the font made for ants. 

The whole purpose of the current design when born in 1979 was simplifying confusion. Grouping services that run under a specific trunk with single color with a single line. So that If I got on a train in Brooklyn, the color would tell me where I'd end up in Manhattan. I should not have to pass my eyes over 4 separate lines to find the service I need. In fact, I think the FIRST issue with the kickmap is the public non-awareness that lines and services are not synonymous. Lines are the physical parts. Services are the letters and numbers. Those change throughout the day. The purpose is to show the general service patterns from 6:30AM to about 11PM. There used to be service guide, but that was axed in 2010 to reduce clutter and give the map more space for clarity. Which did work. Before the 1967, the maps didn't show services. Only lines. THAT was confusing because you couldn't tell how anything ran. 

The current iteration IS clear. It's simple. It's not like you have to guess where you'll end up in relation to geography. 

New Yorkers asked for a redesign in the 70s because the Vignelli map was so hard to read and so geographically off, that if you asked any NYer today that was riding the subways back then about the map, the first thing they'd tell you is you couldn't read it. Movies have even made the joke. New Yorkers can now read the map. That's the only thing that matters. I feel like only transplants actually use the Kickmap as I have yet to meet a native, railfan or not, that uses it. And I'll take a map that properly shows me whether a station is express or local with a single white dot, versus a map that tries to clean up but makes its own mess in the process.

I'll just chalk it up to laziness. No one wants to take two extra seconds to actually read something. And then, will turn around and blame the map. Slow down and you'll see where you need to go. I can go on and on, but I'll stop here.

Simple.


----------



## Woonsocket54

WillBuild said:


> I happened to have to travel to JFK yesterday morning early. No E service to JFK, so only the A with headways of 25 minutes or so. This was a lifesaver. Could get a coffee and walk into W4 a few minutes early, as opposed to run with a bag, then wait around a dirty, humid platform for eternity, without coffee.
> 
> *Great work, whoever stuck his or her neck out for this one.*
> 
> the Times:


That's only if it's working. Most of the time the app looks like this:










http://apps.mta.info/traintime3/


----------



## P2O5

Problem with the white dots=express station is that as a tourist you don't know which service is the express, which meant that I accidentally ended up in Harlem twice in the 5 days I was in New York.

The only metro system I have EVER gotten lost in is the NY subway.

With just a little bit of thought this could be fixed, it's not that difficult.


----------



## sotonsi

LTA1992 said:


> Whoever thinks the current NYC subway map design is difficult has no clue how hard it used to be. This is the simplest it's ever been.


Getting better isn't the same as easy to use.


> We've tried schematic designs. Didn't work.


It did work but New Yorkers threw a wobbly and got a psuedo-geographical (in that it pretends to be geographical, but isn't and is thus misleading) map restored as that was what they were used to.

People will happily spend a couple of dollars on a map that is more schematic - showing that the current maps has problems. And the MTA itself uses schematic maps now to show closures and changes to service. Schematic maps work for the NYC Subway - the problem is the locals can't/won't use them and have the clout to block them, keeping the harder-to-use map as the main one at stations and the like.


P2O5 said:


> Problem with the white dots=express station is that as a tourist you don't know which service is the express, which meant that I accidentally ended up in Harlem twice in the 5 days I was in New York.
> 
> The only metro system I have EVER gotten lost in is the NY subway.
> 
> With just a little bit of thought this could be fixed, it's not that difficult.


The INAT schematic, while a schematic (and flawed due to standardisation across the world), does this by the simple thing of two lines where there's express and local service - something that the official map could do fairly easily while keeping the current pseudo-geographical layout: http://www.inat.fr/metro/new-york No Kick Map style four line trunks (OK, where two trunks have both local and express service, then there's four lines)


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## LTA1992

P2O5 said:


> Problem with the white dots=express station is that as a tourist you don't know which service is the express, which meant that I accidentally ended up in Harlem twice in the 5 days I was in New York.
> 
> The only metro system I have EVER gotten lost in is the NY subway.
> 
> With just a little bit of thought this could be fixed, it's not that difficult.


Who cares about tourists? They don't live here and have to use the system on the regular. The goal is for us NYers to understand. 

I didn't go to Paris and wonder why I couldn't tell where anything but the main landmarks were. I understand that there is absolutely no way you could show that system geographically and be clean. It's already been done.

Each system map is tailored towards that systems needs. The New York map is no different.


----------



## Nexis

> Some photos from Last week
> 
> *IND Culver Line *
> 
> *Smith - 9th Street *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Avenue N *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *BMT Brighton Line*
> 
> *Avenue M*
> 
> 
> 
> *Beverly Road*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Looking South at Cortelyou Road Station*
> 
> 
> 
> *Church Ave*
> 
> 
> 
> *Prospect Park *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *IND Second Avenue Line*
> 
> *72nd Street *
> 
> 
> 
> *96th Street , Downtown Q train *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *IND 8th Avenue Line *
> 
> *96th Street *
> 
> 
> 
> *IRT West Side Line *
> 
> *Downtown 1 train at 218th Street *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *South Ferry*


...


----------



## GENIUS LOCI

*What New York Subway Stations Actually Look Like*


----------



## Luca9A8M

^^
Very interesting :cheers:


----------



## Woonsocket54

Renderings of new entrances to the First Avenue station on the L.









http://evgrieve.com/2017/08/renderings-reveal-mtas-plans-for-avenue.html


----------



## nylkoorB

Woonsocket54 said:


> Here it is. This and $4 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like any MTA pronouncement, this should be taken with a very heavy dose of NaCl.
> 
> http://licpost.com/subway-countdown-clocks-to-be-installed-across-7-line-in-december


Thank you for finding this! So far the R and the C got theirs on schedule, so I'm feeling optimistic about the rest.


----------



## Miami High Rise

Hey they surprised us with the Wi-Fi and cell service, that was quicker than expected.


----------



## LTA1992

Miami High Rise said:


> Hey they surprised us with the Wi-Fi and cell service, that was quicker than expected.


I mean, are you surprised? It uses the already established WiFi network. And they had a year to test it.


----------



## luacstjh98

Random thought: Why not convert the Franklin Ave shuttle to A Division standard, and allow a common automated train system to be deployed on both the 42St and Franklin shuttles?


----------



## mrsmartman




----------



## GojiMet86

IMG_1005 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1009 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1014 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1017 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1034 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1038 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1045 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1046 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1049 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1066 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1072 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1468 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1470 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


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## nylkoorB

The *E* and *G* trains now have countdown clocks at stations + arrival data available on the SubwayTime app! 

:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

The *M*, *N*, and *W* are next! I think I speak for everyone when I say it's about time!!


----------



## GojiMet86

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/mta-creates-prototype-new-subway-car-design-article-1.3470533




> *MTA creates prototype of new subway car design*
> 
> The MTA has created a prototype of the newest model of the city’s subway car — complete with an open gangway design, and stamped with the state seal.
> 
> Exclusive photos from the Daily News show one full train car and one dissected car stashed behind a blue construction wall on the mezzanine of the No. 7 line's 34th St.-Hudson Yards Station in Manhattan's far west side.
> 
> A source told the News that the pictures show prototypes of the new R211 model that will feature an open gangway design without doors between cars.
> 
> On the outside, the cars bear the New York State seal and distinctive blue-and-yellow stripes.
> 
> The cars are branded in the same color scheme as new bus models that are equipped with WiFi and USB ports.
> 
> Cuomo, who controls the MTA, has been attempting to evade total responsibility for the embattled state of the subway system, or footing the entire bill to fix it.
> 
> He and his new MTA Chairman Joe Lhota have been pressuring Mayor de Blasio to fund half of an $836 million subway rescue plan. De Blasio has refused, arguing the state has already raided money meant for the MTA.


----------



## nylkoorB

Edit: Here's a different article with a much better photo gallery

http://brooklynreporter.com/story/sunset-parks-renovated-53rd-street-station-open-business/

One of the newly renovated *R* train stations in Sunset Park, Brooklyn just reopened yesterday to the public. Check out the new look! I like it. The *NW* Astoria line in Queens is next.


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## nylkoorB

Here is the original plan release at the beginning of last year, and a full list and map of all stations to be renovated.


http://secondavenuesagas.com/2016/0...close-30-subway-stations-for-renovation-work/









Notice that this is before the *W* train revival, so what shows up as the *NQ* in Queens is actually the *NW*


----------



## Luca9A8M

Some photos from MTA Official Flickr


Reopening of 53rd St ESI Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, su Flickr


Reopening of 53rd St ESI Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, su Flickr


Reopening of 53rd St ESI Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, su Flickr


Reopening of 53rd St ESI Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, su Flickr


Reopening of 53rd St ESI Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, su Flickr


Reopening of 53rd St ESI Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, su Flickr


Reopening of 53rd St ESI Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, su Flickr


Reopening of 53rd St ESI Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, su Flickr


Reopening of 53rd St ESI Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, su Flickr


Reopening of 53rd St ESI Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, su Flickr


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## mrsmartman

^^ Just some minor work is needed. The New York City subway is still the best rapid transit system in the world.


----------



## MrAronymous

That highly depends on the defenition of best. Rats, delays, stinky homeless people, doubftul cleanliness, leaking and sweltering stations. Some systems don't have any of those. But if your criteria is being able to take transit at 4 am, then yeah sure, it's the best. 

The renovations and new cars look really promising though. Let's hope they'll be able to somehow renovate all needed stations within 20 years.


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## Blackhavvk

mrsmartman said:


> The New York City subway is still the best rapid transit system in the world.


Oh please no. Actually no in top 20.


----------



## nylkoorB

Luca9A8M said:


> Some photos from MTA Official Flickr


 Couldn't help but notice the *W* train in pic #3. I've never seen the W run with the *R* in Brooklyn, so that's interesting to me. I used to live off this line, and in my experience it's one of the worst lines as far as timing goes. It made me actually miss the *F* train. An extra train there would really help a lot. 



Blackhavvk said:


> Oh please no. Actually no in top 20.


I agree I wouldn't call NYC subway the best either, but it is the largest in the world and does run nonstop. Where I disagree is that I think it belongs somewhere in the top 20. I'm curious what your top 20 would be?


----------



## Blackhavvk

nylkoorB said:


> I agree I wouldn't call NYC subway the best either, but it is the largest in the world and does run nonstop. Where I disagree is that I think it belongs somewhere in the top 20. I'm curious what your top 20 would be?


No particular order. No less then 15 urban rail system better then NYC subway.

Tokyo 
Osaka
Nagoya
Seoul
Busan
HK
Beijing
Shanghai
Moscow
Saint Petersburg
Paris
London
Madrid
Berlin
Barcelona

Ok, no in top 15.
I did not take into account the systems of smaller cities in Japan, but they are obviously also better, but I decided not to take cities with a population of less than 5 million in the metropolitan area because of different requirements for systems in large cities and smaller cities.
Sorry Google translate/

UPD I miss Singapore


----------



## bd popeye

Blackhavvk said:


> No particular order. No less then 15 urban rail system better then NYC subway.


..and how many of those systems operate their metros 24/7/365? Just asking. I do know the answer.


----------



## Sunfuns

bd popeye said:


> ..and how many of those systems operate their metros 24/7/365? Just asking. I do know the answer.


Don't you think it's a bit sad that the only argument NYC has in its favour is this? The largest city in the richest country ought to aim for more...


----------



## nylkoorB

Sunfuns said:


> Don't you think it's a bit sad that the only argument NYC has in its favour is this? The largest city in the richest country ought to aim for more...


It's not the _only_ argument. Another one would be that it is the largest in the world by number of stations, and is one of the longest in track legnth. It's also the busiest rapid transit in the Western Hemisphere and 7th in the world. Back to the 24/7 thing, that is a *HUGE* plus for many people, especially those that do not work 9-5 jobs (like me) or people that go out at night. You really should not try to downplay that. It's not like the MTA keeps it running overnight solely for bragging rights, there is an actual need for it.

I want to be clear that I am not arguing that the NYC subway is the best in the world, but people here definitely seem to be downplaying it. Many of our problems come from political issues that are out of the city's control. Since the MTA is run by the STATE and NOT the City, Cuomo is the one that has the power to provide funding for the MTA to fix some of our issues like our ancient signaling system, or our outdated infrastructure, but instead he does the opposite and cuts the budget. Outside of NYC, Americans in general tend to be very anti-transit and anti-urban living, and unfortunately NY suffers a lot from that. We need to get the NY State Government on board with us, which is not easy to do. the rest of the State needs to realize that the city is what keeps the whole State afloat economically.


----------



## bd popeye

^^ Excellent post ^^



Sunfuns said:


> Don't you think it's a bit sad that the only argument NYC has in its favour is this? The largest city in the richest country ought to aim for more...


No.. as nylkoorB pointed out in NYC there is an actual need for 24/7/365 mass transit. 

Of course the NYC subway needs improvements. Some of it's basic infrastructure is 110 years old.... The NYC subway was neglected & non-critical maintenance was deferred for many years particularly in the late 60's thru the 80's. It will take considerable time to rectify maintenance & the needed improvements.


----------



## luacstjh98

What was the rationale for even putting NYCT under the state in the first place? Wouldn't it make more sense for the NYCDOT to run local transit?


----------



## nylkoorB

luacstjh98 said:


> What was the rationale for even putting NYCT under the state in the first place? Wouldn't it make more sense for the NYCDOT to run local transit?


It would seem that way since the NYC subway doesn't leave NYC city limits, but the subway is only one part of the MTA. The MTA also includes MetroNorth and LIRR, both of which go very far beyond NYC city limits. 

LIRR: 









MetroNorth:


----------



## luacstjh98

Yeah, but my question was more on "why not take the subway out of the MTA?"


----------



## bd popeye

luacstjh98 said:


> Yeah, but my question was more on "why not take the subway out of the MTA?"


More than likely it has to do with funding . Gov Cuomo already has cut funds for the NYC Subway....How many more millions would be sacrificed if the NYC Subway was a separate entity? Gov Cuomo has a big hatchet!

The whole thing is a big political beef...
*Transit advocates slam Cuomo for $65 million cut to MTA funding - NY ...*

*NYC to fight MTA funding cut by Gov. Cuomo, DOT ... - am New York*

*The MTA Funding Source No One is Talking About - NY State of Politics*

*New York City Taxpayers Shoulder Bulk of MTA Funding - WSJ*


----------



## bodegavendetta

mrsmartman said:


> ^^ Just some minor work is needed. The New York City subway is still the best rapid transit system in the world.


I love our subway system (24/7 access, the # of stations, the nostalgia and iconography) but this a delusional statement. That honor would probably go to Tokyo or Seoul or something. Even if our subway weren't crumbling, it still wouldn't match the cleanliness or ease of use that other systems have. The only way to improve is to admit there are serious problems.


----------



## Fan Railer

R42 M Shuttle Service between Metropolitan and Myrtle-Wyckoff for the next 8 months:


----------



## Mascabrother

mrsmartman said:


> ^^ Just some minor work is needed. The New York City subway is still the best rapid transit system in the world.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 



bd popeye said:


> ..and how many of those systems operate their metros 24/7/365? Just asking. I do know the answer.


And even the 24/7 service is mediocre. Some lines don't operate at all during the night. :nuts:


----------



## Woonsocket54

The newly renovated station was leaking from day one LOL.

The MTA cannot do anything right. Six months later and it still looks like crap. 

Reopening of 53rd St ESI Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 53rd St ESI Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 53rd St ESI Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


----------



## bd popeye

Ok.. all you persons that love to hate on the NYC Subway..how would you fix it? And where would you get the *Billions of $$$* to fix the NYC subway? What would be your first priority?

Thank you!



> And even the 24/7 service is mediocre. Some lines don't operate at all during the night.


Better than no service as is the case with most metro systems in the World...


----------



## 00Zy99

Are you sure that's not just from washing the floor?


----------



## MrAronymous

Uh, just fund it and repair it. But it should be obvious by now that your government (structure) is incompetent. Most countries have a general taxed budget and divide that according to expenditures. Not sure how it works in NY, but many counties and states in the US have a seperate tax for everything. New transport project? Better make a new tax district. Great for the democratic process, only it means that barely anything gets done. And then there's the ridiculously populistic politicians and two party system who can never agree on doing things for the common good and make sure long-term projects (renovating the subway) have become extremely cumbersome. 

Nobody's hating on the NYC Subway. Most people know it's the victim of politics. But pointing out its faults and deficiencies is realistic. Denying them is what's dangerous and is how terrible state of repair like this is able to happen in the first place. You should by all means compare to the best systems in the world, strive for the best. Otherwise no progress.


----------



## phoenixboi08

00Zy99 said:


> Are you sure that's not just from washing the floor?


Yeah. Pretty sure it's from [attempting to] wash away some of the residue from the grout? 

The entire platform was wet in early pics...


----------



## Danton05

bd popeye said:


> Ok.. all you persons that love to hate on the NYC Subway..how would you fix it? And where would you get the *Billions of $$$* to fix the NYC subway? What would be your first priority?
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Better than no service as is the case with most metro systems in the World...


I dont think it's about money. New York has money to built insanely expensive line expansions that would never have been built anywhere else in the world.

Disband the MTA, which is beyond dysfunctional, and outsource the operation of the system to people that know what they're doing. MTR is running the Stockholm subway for example.


----------



## bd popeye

Thanks to all for the response. I don't have a solution because until the people controlling the money can settle their differences..well the situation will remain mangled.


----------



## nylkoorB

Woonsocket54 said:


> The newly renovated station was leaking from day one LOL.
> 
> The MTA cannot do anything right. Six months later and it still looks like crap.


Not sure if you're joking or not, but you do realize that's from the workers washing the floor right? Leaks don't look like that. Leaks have localized puddles and aren't a small coating like that. Plus it hasn't rained in NY for about a week or so.


----------



## browntown

bd popeye said:


> Ok.. all you persons that love to hate on the NYC Subway..how would you fix it? And where would you get the *Billions of $$$* to fix the NYC subway? What would be your first priority?
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Better than no service as is the case with most metro systems in the World...


The problem isn't not having enough money, it's the shitty management and absurd union agreements. Not just the subway either, all infrastructure in the NorthEast is a shit show because of the corruption and paying union workers $100/hr to work slow as molasses. I'm sure if you look at the maintenance costs per rider in NYC compared to other major metros you will see there is more than enough money, most likely you will see NYC pays FAR more than others despite getting less.


----------



## nylkoorB

Mascabrother said:


> And even the 24/7 service is mediocre. Some lines don't operate at all during the night. :nuts:


This is false, unless you're mixing up the terms "line" and "service". A service is the number or letter name of the train (ex: A train, G train, 7 train, etc.)
Not to be confused with a line, which some examples would be the Broadway line (NQRW) and the Astoria line (NW). So for example the N train is a service which runs on the Astoria line (NW) in Queens, the Broadway line (NQRW) in Manhattan, before going to Brooklyn where it runs on the 4th avenue line (DNR), and finally the Sea Beach line (just the N). 

So all lines and all stations do stay open 24/7, but not all _services_ do. For example the Sixth avenue line (BDFM) in Manhattan stays fully open, but the B and M services are cut back overnight, so at night it's just the DF. I hope that clears things up.


----------



## Danton05

browntown said:


> The problem isn't not having enough money, it's the shitty management and absurd union agreements. Not just the subway either, all infrastructure in the NorthEast is a shit show because of the corruption and paying union workers $100/hr to work slow as molasses. I'm sure if you look at the maintenance costs per rider in NYC compared to other major metros you will see there is more than enough money, most likely you will see NYC pays FAR more than others despite getting less.


The planning might be the worst. NJTR, LIRR and Metro-North should obviously be combined to produce some kind of RER/S-bahn-system that runs frequently through the centre of New York. 

Instead they're spending $10bn and counting on building another teminus under Grand Central Station for East Side Access and will be spending $30+bn to have more trains terminate at Penn Station with the Gateway Program. All to create a small amount of tunnels. 

It's insane. They should be building 2-3 Crossrails for that money.


----------



## 00Zy99

Danton05 said:


> The planning might be the worst. NJTR, LIRR and Metro-North should obviously be combined to produce some kind of RER/S-bahn-system that runs frequently through the centre of New York.
> 
> Instead they're spending $10bn and counting on building another teminus under Grand Central Station for East Side Access and will be spending $30+bn to have more trains terminate at Penn Station with the Gateway Program. All to create a small amount of tunnels.
> 
> It's insane. They should be building 2-3 Crossrails for that money.


Not that this is the right thread, but the three commuter rail systems answer to different political bodies and have different technical specifications.

Besides, most traffic is headed to Manhattan anyways.


----------



## luacstjh98

Is it possible to tunnel a transfer from the lower mezzanine of Lex/63 to the IRT express platforms of Lex/59?

Such a transfer would probably be signed only for the 4/5 (maybe 6 as well), with a note that if you want the NRW you can take the Q and change at 57/7th.


----------



## Danton05

00Zy99 said:


> Not that this is the right thread, but the three commuter rail systems answer to different political bodies and have different technical specifications.


Well, that does seem like terrible planning, doesnt it? How much money could have been saved on East Side Access if MTA owned LIRR and Metro-North could share some of the 44 existing platform at Grand Central instead of digging new ones beneath them?

Obviously it would have been easier if it had been done a long time ago, but it'll still be better to start reforming now than at some point in the future.



> Besides, most traffic is headed to Manhattan anyways.


Sure, and most traffic is headed to central London/Paris/Munich too, but through-running Crossrail/RER/S-bahn lines still offer much better capacity and service and do so cheaper.


----------



## Mascabrother

I didn't know people in SSC get checks to defend the MTA. ^^



nylkoorB said:


> This is false, unless you're mixing up the terms "line" and "service". A service is the number or letter name of the train (ex: A train, G train, 7 train, etc.)
> Not to be confused with a line, which some examples would be the Broadway line (NQRW) and the Astoria line (NW). So for example the N train is a service which runs on the Astoria line (NW) in Queens, the Broadway line (NQRW) in Manhattan, before going to Brooklyn where it runs on the 4th avenue line (DNR), and finally the Sea Beach line (just the N).
> 
> So all lines and all stations do stay open 24/7, but not all _services_ do. For example the Sixth avenue line (BDFM) in Manhattan stays fully open, but the B and M services are cut back overnight, so at night it's just the DF. I hope that clears things up.


*New York’s Subways Are Not Just
Delayed. Some Trains Don’t Run at All.*










Many of the problems afflicting the subway have already been chronicled by The Times, including an antiquated signal system, severe overcrowding and trains that are breaking down at a much higher rate than in the past. The cancellation of trains at times of peak demand is in many ways intertwined with some of those other challenges.


----------



## Mascabrother

In other News... 










The MTA created a mock-up of a new subway car with an open gangway design and no doors between cars. (DAN RIVOLI/NEW YORK DAILY NEWS).


----------



## nylkoorB

Mascabrother said:


> I didn't know people in SSC get checks to defend the MTA. ^^


Believe me, I do my fair share of complaining about the MTA when they deserve it, and they do deserve a LOT of it as there are many problems with the MTA. I do not work for the MTA and I have no ulterior motives. The claim that not all lines run at night is false. Another person tried to post pictures of workers mopping the floor and pretend that they were leaks — and on a dry day too. I wish the MTA paid me to point out blatantly false claims on the internet, but they don't.

I guess the fact that I don't feel the need to complain and make up false claims and non-existent issues makes me a shill. If you really want to complain that badly, then why not complain about a real issue that actually exists? There are plenty and I never denied that.

Oh, shoot! There goes my MTA check right there...


----------



## LTA1992

luacstjh98 said:


> Didn't someone say CBTC was already up between 74th and Flushing?
> 
> (also, really, a 10th Avenue extension of the L might also help - but they better build out the SAS first)


Yes it is. 74th to 33rd by October. 33rd to Hudson Yds by December. Testing, of course.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

What is CTBC?


----------



## Luca9A8M

^^
*Communications-based train control*

CBTC is a continuous, automatic train control system utilizing high-resolution train location determination, independent from track circuits; continuous, high-capacity, bidirectional train-to-wayside data communications; and trainborne and wayside processors capable of implementing Automatic Train Protection (ATP) functions, as well as optional Automatic Train Operation (ATO) and Automatic Train Supervision (ATS) functions (from IEEE 1474 standard).

CBTC is a railway signaling system that makes use of the telecommunications between the train and track equipment for the traffic management and infrastructure control. By means of the CBTC systems, the exact position of a train is known more accurately than with the traditional signaling systems. This results in a more efficient and safe way to manage the railway traffic. Metros (and other railway systems) are able to improve headways while maintaining or even improving safety (from Wikipedia).


----------



## Woonsocket54

Cortland Street station on the "1" train, closed since 9/11, will not open until end of next year at the earliest.










https://twitter.com/nicolegelinas/status/912365596838375424


----------



## Woonsocket54

*Crime in NYC subway*









https://twitter.com/nicolegelinas/status/912355868972331008










https://twitter.com/nicolegelinas/status/912355438980628481

*ridership on NYC subway*









https://twitter.com/nicolegelinas/status/912357417299709953


----------



## Fabio1976

What does mean GL?


----------



## Woonsocket54

^^ Grand larceny


----------



## P2O5

Woonsocket54 said:


> *Crime in NYC subway*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/nicolegelinas/status/912355868972331008
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/nicolegelinas/status/912355438980628481
> 
> *ridership on NYC subway*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/nicolegelinas/status/912357417299709953


What is the reason for the decrease, albeit marginal, in patronage over the past 2 years? This despite some new station and line openings.


----------



## GojiMet86

This is R46 #6151, via Facebook's _New York's Railroads, Subways & Trolleys Past & Present_ group:


----------



## nylkoorB

Woonsocket54 said:


> Here it is. This and $4 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like any MTA pronouncement, this should be taken with a very heavy dose of NaCl.
> 
> http://licpost.com/subway-countdown-clocks-to-be-installed-across-7-line-in-december


The *M* and *W* now have countdown clocks in all stations, but it looks like the *N* isn't complete yet between Coney Island and 59th st in Brooklyn.

So in the next month we can look forward to the *B* *Q* and hopefully the rest of the *N* too


----------



## Tower Dude

Though the placement of said count down clocks are pretty appalling.


----------



## mrsmartman




----------



## mrsmartman




----------



## LTA1992

fns4565 said:


> NYC metro is a good example of public transportation.They could make it longer but it wasn't necessary at the time and quality is more important than number of cars.


Actually, expansion was, and still is, very necessary. World events are what caused money for expansion to run out and needed system work to be deferred.

We can't focus solely on playing catch up. Proper expansion is still needed. And I'll stop myself before I go on another rant on how SAS as it's currently being built is a failure for this city.


----------



## Antje

DJ Hammers (author)

New or trial livery?


----------



## SSMEX

Unfortunately I think the livery is new and permanent. The renderings for the R211s (with the open gangways) from the governor's office show that livery.

IMO, the black and red faceplates on the front of the NTT cars go really well with the stainless steel and look new and modern. The blue livery on the side of the cars (as well as the new buses) just look unequivocally terrible.

Does anyone know if there are plans to get rid of the flags on at least remove them from future cars? I understanding putting them on temporarily after 9/11 but now they're just ridiculous. They're so big and they're on every single carriage.


----------



## CNB30

mrsmartman said:


>


Were the subways really that dim?


----------



## speedy1979

CNB30 said:


> Were the subways really that dim?


They were even dimmer.


----------



## bd popeye

speedy1979 said:


> They were even dimmer.


So true. I remember riding on the Lo-v cars back in the 60s.. they were dim...and the lights flickered..

as a rail fan I really enjoy the noise of a Lo-v..

[




FF to about 1:30...


----------



## GojiMet86

IMG_7529 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7629 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0418 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0421 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0456 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0630 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0645 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0649 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0656 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0684 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_2137 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_2139 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_2358 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_2575 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_2619 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_2839 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_2847 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_2850 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_2855 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

DSC_1648 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

DSC_1709 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

DSC_1725 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

DSC_1735 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

DSC_1742 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

DSC_1752 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

DSC_1849 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## LTA1992

HARTride 2012 said:


> Anyone who believes that an R179 will enter revenue service by the end of this year can keep dreaming. It's not happening. The earliest I see an R179 entering revenue service is January, 2018.


I don't know. The trains are pretty much bare of test equipment. The 8 car sets preforming simulated stop testing on the C and J right now. I think it's the 10 car set that really struggling.

There's still time for me to be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Exactly. And as long as there are problems and setbacks with testing, people should not assume they will be in revenue service at a snap of a finger. My prediction is the first R179s will enter revenue service some time between March and June of 2018. Even March/April, 2018 may be too early given the current situation.


----------



## LTA1992

And I am pleasantly surprised. 

It's official, the R179 will begin its 30-day revenue test tomorrow on the J. Running from Jamaica Center to Hewes Street due to work on the Bridge.

I will be on that train. And I hope these railfans know to shower lol.


----------



## GojiMet86

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/18/nyregion/new-york-subway-system-failure-delays.html





> *How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways*
> 
> Disruptions and delays have roiled the system this year. But the crisis was
> long in the making, fueled by a litany of errors, a Times investigation shows.
> 
> By BRIAN M. ROSENTHAL, EMMA G. FITZSIMMONS and MICHAEL LaFORGIA
> 
> 
> 
> edit Jan: please never copy whole articles into the forums, only use the title, app. 100 words of text and a link to the full article, thanks


----------



## Miami High Rise

LTA1992 said:


> And I am pleasantly surprised.
> 
> It's official, the R179 will begin its 30-day revenue test tomorrow on the J. Running from Jamaica Center to Hewes Street due to work on the Bridge.
> 
> I will be on that train. And I hope these railfans know to shower lol.


Did HARTRide just get stuffed?


----------



## LTA1992

Miami High Rise said:


> Did HARTRide just get stuffed?


The official memo is out and we've all seen it. On the transit forums and transit related facebook pages.

Definitely happening lol


----------



## nylkoorB

Perphaps I jumped the gun a few days too early, but the R179s are in service now on the *J*!

I don't know where people are getting the Spring/Summer 2018 from.


----------



## LTA1992

She failed. Though it wasn't her fault, the clock restarts. 

Reason? While passing through 121st Street (which is under renovation), it hit a crate which activated the emergency brakes. Train was discharged at 111th Street. 

So the R179 is out of service for the rest of the day.

EDIT: Back in service as of 1:12pm.

EDIT 2: Failed for real later that evening. Door malfunction. Good thing the failures are happening now. Rather than it get through 30 days and on that last night, an issue restarts the clock.


----------



## GojiMet86

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/21/...-named-to-lead-new-yorks-troubled-subway.html



> *Toronto’s Transit Chief Named to Lead New York’s Troubled Subway*
> 
> By MARC SANTORANOV. 21, 2017
> 
> With New York’s century-old subway system in crisis, plagued by delays and in need of major repairs, Andy Byford was brought in from Toronto on Tuesday to take over the agency that oversees the city’s buses and subways.
> The appointment of Mr. Byford as the president of New York City Transit comes on the heels of series of changes in leadership at the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which oversees the subway system, aimed at restoring accountability and changing a culture that for years has left the subway without adequate funding or support...


----------



## Mascabrother

opcorn:

The New York Times


----------



## LTA1992

Mascabrother said:


> Let the MTA-salaried forurmers explain this. opcorn:


We all know the why. Everyone knows the why. The fact that no one wants do do anything is the problem. And the public cant fully advocate for the right sides because almost none actually know where the problems really lie.


----------



## bd popeye

Mascabrother, can you post a link to where you got that ontime schedule? Thank you.


----------



## mike1115

Miami has a major subway? Where have they been hiding it?


----------



## Mascabrother

bd popeye said:


> Mascabrother, can you post a link to where you got that ontime schedule? Thank you.


The New York Times: How Politics and Bad Decisions
Starved New York’s Subways


----------



## Mascabrother

*How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways*

Daily ridership has nearly doubled in the past two decades to 5.7 million, but New York is the only major city in the world with fewer miles of track than it had during World War II. Efforts to add new lines have been hampered by generous agreements with labor unions and private contractors that have inflated construction costs to five times the international average.

New York’s subway now has the worst on-time performance of any major rapid transit system in the world, according to data collected from the 20 biggest. Just 65 percent of weekday trains reach their destinations on time, the lowest rate since the transit crisis of the 1970s, when graffiti-covered cars regularly broke down.
*
Signal problems and car equipment failures occur twice as frequently as a decade ago, but hundreds of mechanic positions have been cut because there is not enough money to pay them — even though the average total compensation for subway managers has grown to nearly $300,000 a year.*


A lot of corruption in the MTA, OMG, this is delicious. opcorn: opcorn:


----------



## DaeguDuke

Mascabrother said:


> opcorn:
> 
> The New York Times



In fairness the A train is longer than a few of the metro systems on that list, no others run 24/7. A few of them were built in the last few decades. New York could learn lessons from places like Paris though - upgrade and automate. Saying that though Paris has the option to upgrade a line at a time, and the longest there is only 15 miles (counting both branches of the 13). No idea how you would do that in NYC without serious disruption. If it cost a similar amount to the Paris Metro Line 1 costs you’re looking at a cool $18bn, although that’d be spreading construction out over ~200 years


----------



## bodegavendetta

Glad we got Byford but I'm not expecting much with Cuomo in office.


----------



## sergiogiorgini

DaeguDuke said:


> In fairness the A train is longer than a few of the metro systems on that list, no others run 24/7. A few of them were built in the last few decades. New York could learn lessons from places like Paris though - upgrade and automate. Saying that though Paris has the option to upgrade a line at a time, and the longest there is only 15 miles (counting both branches of the 13). No idea how you would do that in NYC without serious disruption. If it cost a similar amount to the Paris Metro Line 1 costs you’re looking at a cool $18bn, although that’d be spreading construction out over ~200 years


Did you read the article? The problem is not that the New York Subway needs to be automated, it's that funding has been cut while ridership has soared, money has been _spectacularly_ misspent and corruption abounds. Besides the breakdowns and delays, New York has the grimiest stations in the civilized world and is only now planning things like RFID ticketing or open-gangway trains, which have been standard everywhere else for years. So I wouldn't hold my breath for automation (and think of the unions).


----------



## bd popeye

Mascabrother said:


> The New York Times: How Politics and Bad Decisions
> Starved New York’s Subways


Thank you...


----------



## DaeguDuke

sergiogiorgini said:


> Did you read the article? The problem is not that the New York Subway needs to be automated, it's that funding has been cut while ridership has soared, money has been _spectacularly_ misspent and corruption abounds. Besides the breakdowns and delays, New York has the grimiest stations in the civilized world and is only now planning things like RFID ticketing or open-gangway trains, which have been standard everywhere else for years. So I wouldn't hold my breath for automation (and think of the unions).




I did read the article, and I doubt that open gangway trains or RFID ticketing would improve reliability in any way, nor would they repair crumbling infrastructure. Breakdowns and delays are a bigger problem imo than grimy stations (which would be a relatively easy thing to fix). Did you read the article?

My point on automation was more that the subway needs to look at how other older subway systems have upgraded (it’s silly to compare it to systems that are ~20 miles long and were built this century), including new trains and signalling. If you’re upgrading trains and signalling you should be automating, the unions will grumble but at the end of the day you need to reduce running costs over the next few decades. Don’t think Trump’s going to hand over the money though :/


----------



## jay stew

I was in New York this past weekend. 

Riding the subway on the weekend had me like :nuts:

I almost got lost twice heading back to Queens (where I was staying at) because some of the services were rerouted and some were partially shut down (like the 7 in Manhattan).


----------



## sergiogiorgini

DaeguDuke said:


> I did read the article, and I doubt that open gangway trains or RFID ticketing would improve reliability in any way, nor would they repair crumbling infrastructure. Breakdowns and delays are a bigger problem imo than grimy stations (which would be a relatively easy thing to fix). Did you read the article?
> 
> My point on automation was more that the subway needs to look at how other older subway systems have upgraded (it’s silly to compare it to systems that are ~20 miles long and were built this century), including new trains and signalling. If you’re upgrading trains and signalling you should be automating, the unions will grumble but at the end of the day you need to reduce running costs over the next few decades. Don’t think Trump’s going to hand over the money though :/


Only a handful of rapid transit lines have gone automatic, let alone retrofitted older lines. No other city has endeavored anything close to what it would take to automate something as big and complex as a New York subway line, so I highly doubt that this is a relevant discussion when the MTA is struggling to run its existing infrastructure. What the subway needs is funding for repairs, staff, rolling stock, and station maintenance. RFID is minor but it would speed up the lines at turnstiles, and open-gangway trains would help spread passengers across trains. As opposed to WiFi, these things are actually useful.

And as for the dirty stations — New Yorkers just deserve better.


----------



## luacstjh98

I believe WiFi was a prerequisite for the subway to install ISIM-B, a system that told central control where all the B Division trains were, allowing control to get a better idea of what was happening across the network (they didn't have that in 2017!!!). The most visible effect of that is the B Division countdown clocks.

Yes, the MTA needs to get its house together, but at the same time it has to show the public that it's doing *something*. Also, crumbling infrastructure means that it's more effective to replace the entire thing altogether, and if replacing things like turnstiles means you get fun things like RFID, and replacing trains means you get things like open gangway trains, I don't see what's so bad about it.


----------



## Alargule

I'd agree that just getting the network to a state of good repair alone wouldn't be enough for the future. Investing in technology that will reduce operating costs in the long run should also be taken into account.

However, the root cause of course isn't the availability of funds - or lack thereof. The city and state should be able to raise the necessary capital pretty effortlessly. It's just that the political will isn't there. So nothing happens.


----------



## DaeguDuke

sergiogiorgini said:


> Only a handful of rapid transit lines have gone automatic, let alone retrofitted older lines.


Literally hundreds of rapid transit lines are automatic.

Paris has retrofitted a handful of lines, London has done 4 and is in the middle of another 4, Glasgow was automated in the 70s.. I suspect that BART as a system is not significantly more complex than a NYC line, especially when it doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing approach. Paris ran driver and driverless trains on the same line for a while, London Crossrail is to be driverless but only in the central section. No reason why large sections can't be done with gradual improvements.



> I highly doubt that this is a relevant discussion when the MTA is struggling to run its existing infrastructure. What the subway needs is funding for repairs, staff, rolling stock, and station maintenance.


That is the point though - some of the signalling equipment is 80 years old. What are they going to do when it breaks? Replace it with the same?

NYC needs to seriously look at upgrading the signalling instead of just tinkering. At this point they'd need to look at moving block signalling, and every single system they could look at would be compatible with ATO. Unless you think they should go for a modern signalling system that has no provision for automation? Hint: it doesn't exist.

I note that the L and the 7 are both automated. Seems to be that the unions are not some impossible hurdle to overcome, especially when it would take decades to remove drivers completely.


----------



## kacpi2532

How many R211 is there going to be? Wikipedia says 1025, but someone here said over 1600... And also how long are nyc subway trains(how many cars)? Thanks in advance


----------



## LTA1992

kacpi2532 said:


> How many R211 is there going to be? Wikipedia says 1025, but someone here said over 1600... And also how long are nyc subway trains(how many cars)? Thanks in advance


1025 without all options. 1625 (give or take) with all. The final total will depend on funding.


----------



## nylkoorB

kacpi2532 said:


> How many R211 is there going to be? Wikipedia says 1025, but someone here said over 1600... And also how long are nyc subway trains(how many cars)? Thanks in advance


The Length depends on the train. Most trains use 10 cars, but some of the older lines with slightly shorter platforms can only fit 8 car trains. Then there’s the 7 train which uses 11 cars, and the G train which only has 4 cars.


----------



## kerouac1848

It seems to me that the problem is: 

- a cutback on maintenance and renewals since the 1990s
- insufficient upgrade works (e.g. signalling systems)
- upgrades that have taken place have often not priortised the right areas
- debt used to finance basic operational costs which has led to crippling repayments

At the heart of the above is the dysfunctional governance structure of MTA. Without fixing that I don't know how you'll ever fully stop future politicians causing the same problems again.


----------



## jay stew

Some video I took last weekend.


----------



## DaeguDuke

sergiogiorgini said:


> No other city has endeavored anything close to what it would take to automate something as big and complex as a New York subway line, so I highly doubt that this is a relevant discussion when the MTA is struggling to run its existing infrastructure.



 https://tfl.gov.uk/travel-informat...jects/four-lines-modernisation#on-this-page-1

Realised today that London is doing exactly this - upgrading 4 interlinked underground lines (that predate the NYC subway and rely on equipment just as old) at the same time. It will take over a decade to fully implement but the trains will be automated over individual stretches as they are upgraded.

So nothing about the size, or complexity really holding NYC back, just cost and political will.


----------



## sotonsi

DaeguDuke said:


> It will take over a decade to fully implement but the trains will be automated over individual stretches as they are upgraded.


Modernisation of those lines has been going on for over a decade already - track relaying meant weekend closures of the outer reaches of the Met line in the early 00s, the restructuring of service*, the new trains (first of which came out 2010). Though sure, one can tighten up the timetable a bit - there's been a lot of delays due to (unwanted by London Underground, but forced on them by Crash Gordon (Brown)) PPP-contracts falling apart, prioritising other lines due to the Olympics and flipping entirely the order which the resignalling will be done from outside-in to centre-out.

The actual re-signalling is just beginning though and the piecemeal approach means that they can take their time and use a limited budget (and they can drop west of Earls Court, east of Barking and north of Harrow if they run out of cash - focus on the bits that will be 28tph+ and/or have lots of junctions)

*Circle line T-Cupping in 2009, all-day through Chesham trains and loss of off-peak fast Mets in 2011


----------



## Woonsocket54

I love reviewing this page every once in a while and seeing valiant defenses of the indefensible. Keep it up everyone! Very entertaining.


----------



## dimlys1994

R211 Open House:


R211 Open House by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


R211 Open House by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


R211 Open House by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


R211 Open House by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


R211 Open House by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


R211 Open House by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


R211 Open House by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


R211 Open House by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


R211 Open House by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


NYCT_1196 by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


NYCT_1199 by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


NYCT_1207 by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


NYCT_1222 by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


NYCT_1372 by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


----------



## MrAronymous

Love that design. Really sleek. Finally.


----------



## Miami High Rise

Is there any reason for any future rolling stock to not have open gangways? Even if it's for lower ridership lines?
Such as maybe a hairpin turn like on the temporary 1 South Ferry station?

Also this is the first design that looks futuristic of any rolling stock. R160/188 looks modern but not futuristic.

Speaking of low ridership, R211s will go on the Staten Island Railway of all places, but maybe they will be the
non-open gangway ones, which really the whole order should be open gangway...


----------



## luacstjh98

I believe the first 740 cars won't be open gangway, but depending on the success of the open gangway train, future option orders may be.


----------



## Miami High Rise

Oh I forgot the huge first order had only the 10 test cars, while the nice large and increasing number of open gangway cars proposed, was for future extensions.


----------



## SSMEX

Still don't like the blue and yellow exterior livery (if the blue front cap, interior floor, and seats were dark gray, it'd be perfect), but this is obviously a step forward.

Does anyone know if this means the end of the FIND displays and if all the screens, including the advertising ones, are fully digital and presumably animated?


----------



## Miami High Rise

Make this order several thousand and replace all pre 1990 junk.


----------



## Fabio1976

NYC subway will be always 24/7!!!!


----------



## MrAronymous

Keep your ears closed and continue shouting. Meanwhile the rest of us are working on a solution based in reality.


----------



## patel2897

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=


----------



## nylkoorB

MrAronymous said:


> Keep your ears closed and continue shouting. Meanwhile the rest of us are working on a solution based in reality.


I hope this is not directed at me. I do not have my ears closed - I experience this first hand everyday. Overnight subway service is my reality and has been my entire life. My job depends on it and other parts of my daily life. It’s no secret that this city caters mostly to the rich and we do not need any more of that. A lot of people calling for this to end don’t even seem to be from New York which I find a little strange. I can not believe people assume the MTA just keeps the subway running just for shits and giggles. Doesn’t the thought occur to anyone that maybe there is an actual need for it? Over 85,000 workers daily and that number is only growing.


----------



## Nexis

*53 St Tunnel Closure*


----------



## MrAronymous

No, it was to this guy



> NYC subway will be always 24/7!!!!


Which is a pointless comment. As has been said hundreds of times, if you keep 24hr service everywhere, you end up with worse service (or in worst case scenario none at all) on the system as a whole. Stuff's breaking apart. 

The people served in the night times are dependent on it, sure. But if the choice is temporary (months/years) nightly bus replacement on some lines or no full scale renovations and updates, the choice is very clear. The small overall percentage of nighttime users do not weigh up to the inconveniences the large portion of daytime users will keep having to endure. There simply is no other solution. Redoing the network by patchwork of small renovations would costs more than 50 years.

Renovating and updating the lines by only inconveniencing the night service users is a very small price to pay for a huge gain to the city of New York.
Surely the night service replacement buses could be made to function properly?


----------



## Woonsocket54

It's a Christmas surprise - 53rd St tunnel shutdown to complete the year


----------



## prageethSL

*MTA to Test Subway Platform Screen Doors on the L Train’s 3rd Avenue Station in NYC* :cheers:












> In an ongoing effort to improve the New York City subway system, the L Train has been subjected to a series of tests by the MTA. New fold-up seats have recently made their debut and another feature may soon been introduced. According to amNewYork, the MTA will test platform doors on the L Train’s Third Avenue station.
> The design is being tested following advocacy from board members and experts. Already utilized in other subway stations around the world, including in Paris and Seoul, the doors are intended to prevent commuters from falling onto the subway tracks.
> “We’re in the design planning stages and working to overcome structural challenges for a small platform screen doors pilot at the Third Avenue Station along the L line,” said an MTA spokesman in a statement.
> At the moment, the agency has not provided much information about the doors. However, Curbed NY notes that they will be installed during the L train shutdown, which will take place in *April 2019*. Thus far, the MTA has been “unreceptive” to the widespread use of platform doors, citing the age of the subway system and its lack of uniformity as the main issues preventing their installation. The MTA mentions four specific obstacles, including the space for an equipment room; curved tracks at stations; physical obstructions, such as columns, and the need for adequate power (not to mention the overall cost of project).
> The Third Avenue station and L train cars, which are all the same models, were specifically selected for this trial run as they present fewer issues. If successful, the doors could debut in *2020*, when the lines reopens


----------



## nylkoorB

MrAronymous said:


> No, it was to this guy
> 
> 
> 
> Which is a pointless comment. As has been said hundreds of times, if you keep 24hr service everywhere, you end up with worse service (or in worst case scenario none at all) on the system as a whole. Stuff's breaking apart.
> 
> The people served in the night times are dependent on it, sure. *But if the choice is temporary (months/years) nightly bus replacement on some lines or no full scale renovations and updates, the choice is very clear*. The small overall percentage of nighttime users do not weigh up to the inconveniences the large portion of daytime users will keep having to endure. There simply is no other solution. Redoing the network by patchwork of small renovations would costs more than 50 years.
> 
> Renovating and updating the lines by only inconveniencing the night service users is a very small price to pay for a huge gain to the city of New York.
> *Surely the night service replacement buses could be made to function properly?*


The bold I would support. A huge difference from permanently ending overnight service and much more reasonable. It would be an inconvenience for me and many others but I would easily understand. This happens on occasion, so it wouldn't be too far fetched. I would gladly support an increase in temporary overnight shutdowns in both frequency and length if that is what needs to be done for the greater good. I don't think an entire system wide shut down would ever work though, even just temporarily. The free shuttle buses that run during current maintenance shutdowns are already extremely mediocre. It is free though, so maybe I shouldn't complain about them. However, there's no way a system wide shut down does not result in complete disaster.


----------



## Woonsocket54

That's a great photo of the London PSD, but the ones on the L train will not look anything like that.


----------



## MrAronymous

More likely something like this.


----------



## nylkoorB

*L train shutdown plan*

Here's an article on the *L* train shutdown plan. It's just the beginning so it is not super detailed but I've highlighted some of the important parts
https://www.villagevoice.com/2017/1...ain-shutdown-plan-will-screw-up-your-commute/

Subways:


> *The J/M/Z and G lines will see increased service (though the plan does not specify by how much), and the C and G trains will get more cars on each train in order to increase capacity.*
> 
> Anyone who has witnessed the crowding at the Marcy Avenue J/M/Z station when those trains are suffering delays, or when the L train is out of service, can imagine what that station and others will look like during the shutdown. The release merely claims, without providing specifics, that *there will be “additional station turnstile, stair, and control area capacity at numerous stations on the G, J/M/Z, and L lines.”*
> 
> *The DOT will add more bike parking and crosswalks around J/M/Z subway stops, and “with G train ridership expected to grow dramatically, DOT will improve crossings around the Nassau Avenue G train stop.”*


Buses and Williamsburg Bridge:


> *Three new bus routes will carry riders from Bedford Avenue or Grand Street in Brooklyn to Soho or 15th Street in Manhattan, so they can transfer to other bus routes or subway lines.* “In order to move buses quickly and not add to congestion,” the plan calls for “measures to ensure reliable service. *These include bus lanes that connect from the Grand Street Station in Bushwick and along the Brooklyn shuttle bus routes, over the Williamsburg Bridge, to and from Delancey Street and other key Manhattan connection points.”
> 
> But the agencies say this does not include a dedicated bus lane on the Williamsburg Bridge. Instead, the bridge will be designated HOV-3 — no vehicles with fewer than three passengers — “during rush hours at minimum.”*
> 
> *According to the DOT, the outer deck of the Williamsburg Bridge will be designated for buses, trucks, and vehicles making right turns.* The bus lanes on the bridge approaches will feed directly into that outer deck, with the assumption that the HOV-3 rules will make the outer deck work reliably for bus passengers. *The definition of “rush hours” on the bridge is yet to be determined.*


Ferries:


> The agencies estimate that 5 percent of L train riders will turn to ferries during the shutdown, so *the MTA is starting a new ferry route from Williamsburg to the Stuyvesant Cove ferry terminal on Manhattan’s East 20th Street, and will run a bus that will connect with a revamped M14 Select Bus Service to take passengers to 14th Street.* It’s conceivable that some commuters will take a ferry to a bus to a subway.


Bikes:


> *Daily cycling volume in Manhattan is expected to double during the shutdown, so the agencies are installing new protected bike lanes between Bushwick Avenue and the bridge in Brooklyn — running on Grand Street toward Manhattan, and on a nearby residential street away from it — and on Delancey Street in Manhattan between the bridge and Allen Street.*
> 
> Transit advocates had been pushing for a dedicated bike lane along the L’s path on 14th Street in Manhattan, *but the agencies’ plan calls for a two-way protected bike lane on 13th Street instead*.
> 
> *“DOT will work with Motivate on its Citi Bike capacity to help service inconvenienced subway users, such as increased bike inventories and valet services to help move riders,” the plan states.*


Manhattan streets:


> While groups like Transportation Alternatives called for a “PeopleWay” on the 14th Street corridor — a mixture of pedestrian malls, dedicated bus lanes, and bike lanes that would necessitate a prohibition of private cars — *the agencies are instead instituting a “busway” for 14th Street, with details yet to be determined.
> 
> The “exclusive busway” would have an unspecified “rush hour restriction” on private vehicles, and the agencies are promising “temporary bus bulbs, offset bus lines, sidewalk expansion, and tens of thousands of square feet in new pedestrian space.”*


Brooklyn streets:


> The Grand Street corridor in Williamsburg, which is already narrow and congested, and the site of numerous pedestrian fatalities in recent years, is expected to become even more bustling during the shutdown.
> 
> *The agencies’ plan reserves a single sentence for Grand Street: “DOT is looking to make major changes to a street that will serve as a major bus and bicycle corridor to the Williamsburg Bridge.”*


River crossings:









13th and 14th streets:









I think one other thing that they should do is provide a free out of system transfer from the Lorimer *J*/*M* to the Broadway *G*, like what is done with the *F* at 63rd/Lex
I feel that they should probably go with the bus only lanes on the bridge instead of just the proposed HOV. 
One thing we can all agree on: this shutdown is going to be a disaster.


----------



## GojiMet86

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/20/nyregion/system-failure-new-york-subway-maintenance-misery.html




> *How Cuts in Basic Subway Upkeep Can Make Your Commute Miserable*
> 
> Decisions to scale back routine maintenance turned this year into the subway’s worst since the 1970s.
> 
> By EMMA G. FITZSIMMONS and MICHAEL LaFORGIADEC. 20, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was the wrong place for a spare piece of rail — 13 feet long, more than 400 pounds and lying, unsecured, in the center of a busy stretch of subway track.
> 
> It migrated slowly during the tremorous morning hours, inching across the stained ties and grimy track bed with the vibration of each passing car until it lay atop the track, directly in the path of oncoming trains.
> 
> Just before 9:40 a.m. on Tuesday, June 27, the tunnels at 125th Street in Harlem were illuminated by a southbound A train — eight cars carrying hundreds of people.
> 
> What happened next felt like an explosion. The train struck the loose rail, and two cars, each weighing more than 90,000 pounds, left the tracks and hit the tunnel walls with enough force to gouge concrete and shear steel. Signal equipment dangled crazily from the ceiling as smoke filled the train cars. Subway riders choked back panic, crowded together and fought their way through the wreckage.
> 
> The car walls and the tunnel felt as if they were closing in on Gabriela Martinez, 27, who was on her way to an internship at NBC at Rockefeller Center and now found herself hugging a stranger for comfort. “I can’t control this,” she thought to herself, “and I think I’m going to die right now.”
> 
> Workers responsible for the rail that caused the derailment should have removed it, or at least bolted it down, officials said. It was an egregious lapse in basic subway maintenance. But it was far from the only one in June — the worst month for delays in the subway’s worst year since the transit crisis of the 1970s. To look closely at those 30 troubled days is to see how preventable maintenance problems cause commuter misery practically every hour...


----------



## Woonsocket54

Countdown clocks being installed on the 7 train



















source: http://liccourtsquare.com/2017/12/18/countdown-clocks-installed-at-court-square-station/


----------



## Nexis

*ᴴᴰ R160 - G Train to Jamaica 179 St Announcements - From Church Avenue - via Queens Blvd / F Line *


----------



## Tower Dude

Wait is this Going be a thing? If so WHEN CAN THE EXTEND the W?


----------



## Woonsocket54

Tower Dude said:


> Wait is this Going be a thing? If so WHEN CAN THE EXTEND the W?


The G is not being extended further into Queens.

But they will extend the lengths of the actual trains during the L shutdown.


----------



## Nexis

*ᴴᴰ R142 - 5 Train via 6 (Pelham Line) Announcements to Pelham Bay Park - From 125 Street*


----------



## N830MH

patel2897 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=


Wow! Cool! I haven't seen one yet! When they will deployed new subway cars? 



prageethSL said:


> *MTA to Test Subway Platform Screen Doors on the L Train’s 3rd Avenue Station in NYC* :cheers:


What a smart idea!!! That way those people will not falling on the trains tracks. It could be very dangerous. They could being killed by trains. The screen doors is much safer. To keep away from the tracks. They will save the life. I think they should considering this.


----------



## bd popeye

N830MH said:


> Wow! Cool! I haven't seen one yet! When they will deployed new subway cars?


You won't see one for several years...maybe even longer.



N830MH said:


> What a smart idea!!! That way those people will not falling on the trains tracks. It could be very dangerous. They could being killed by trains. The screen doors is much safer. To keep away from the tracks. They will save the life. I think they should considering this.


icard: Many METRO systems in the World have used similar systems..for years...N830MH, perhaps you are being sarcastic...


----------



## phoenixboi08

I've had a question that I haven't found a satisfactory answer to: _Could_ (I'm aware significant retrofitting would likely need to occur; so let's assume it can/does) PATH be folded into the regional rail network?

The more I look at a map, the more I feel it could be quite a brilliant, long-term solution to allow trains to run into midtown via Hoboken (and downtown via Jersey City). 

I just don't know how different are the dimensions of the tunnels/current rolling stock compared to what would need to be run to allow blended service with existing train services (eg Thameslink, Crossrail, etc).

I can't help but wonder if PATH would be far more useful if it were either A) consolidated into the NYC subway network or B) merged with the regional rail network.

Is this just way _too_ wacky of an idea?


----------



## MrAronymous

Of course it _could_. You _could_ even merge all regional rail services under the same banner and level of service in the NYC region. The only thing stopping it, as always, is politics and money.


----------



## luacstjh98

PATH uses trains that are about the same size as subway A division rolling stock, and consequently the Hudson Tubes and the rest of PATH infrastructure is smaller.

Regional rail trains won't fit.


----------



## GojiMet86

The money spent trying to even reconfigure those tunnels to fit Amtrak, NJT, etc, would be better spent making new infrastructure for them. And by trying to convert it, you'd be denying Hoboken and Newark commuters a regular ride. You would have to get rid of many stops, and if you don't, it's going to be very short stopping distances for trains designed for longer distances between stops.

Not a good idea at all.


----------



## phoenixboi08

luacstjh98 said:


> PATH uses trains that are about the same size as subway A division rolling stock, and consequently the Hudson Tubes and the rest of PATH infrastructure is smaller.
> 
> Regional rail trains won't fit.


Aren't there sites (like CTBUH for buildings) that compile this info for networks/rolling-stock? Just for my own purposes...I really don't know where to look to find out this info.

I'd like to know just how different the dimensions are; particularly, compared to modern, lighter cars used internationally rather than the larger trains in-use here, currently.



GojiMet86 said:


> The money spent trying to even reconfigure those tunnels to fit Amtrak, NJT, etc, would be better spent making new infrastructure for them. And by trying to convert it, you'd be denying Hoboken and Newark commuters a regular ride. You would have to get rid of many stops, and if you don't, it's going to be very short stopping distances for trains designed for longer distances between stops.
> 
> Not a good idea at all.


I hadn't even thought about the stop-spacing; good point!

I'd presumed a simple phased approach, whereby you take out the northern tunnel (HOB-33rd St.) and upgrade that with all trains running via JC - followed by taking the southern tunnels out of commission and doing the reverse, could potentially make things less painful...but your point is well-taken.

I guess, though, overall, I'm curious about what would have to change to make this conversion work...it just seems like PATH is currently not being used optimally.

Perhaps proper integration with the subway is a much better bet?

Especially, given the growing calls for an extension 7 train into Secaucus (I think PATH would maybe make more sense) as well as the planned PATH connection to EWR (which, interestingly, I find would be far less useful than potentially just extending the Newark LRT).


----------



## diz




----------



## Stuu

phoenixboi08 said:


> Aren't there sites (like CTBUH for buildings) that compile this info for networks/rolling-stock? Just for my own purposes...I really don't know where to look to find out this info.
> 
> I'd like to know just how different the dimensions are; particularly, compared to modern, lighter cars used internationally rather than the larger trains in-use here, currently.


Wikipedia is a good place to start; most transit systems have their own page, and larger ones will have separate pages for rolling stock. Some details about PATH trains are here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PATH_(rail_system)#Rolling_stock


----------



## Woonsocket54

A new transfer between existing stations in lower Manhattan has opened.









https://twitter.com/2AvSagas/status/961299191015362567









https://twitter.com/StewartMader/status/961296724013838336









https://twitter.com/StewartMader/status/961296724013838336









https://twitter.com/StewartMader/status/961296724013838336


----------



## Miami High Rise

That's good, it was like a strange dead end for the E


----------



## GojiMet86

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/20/nyregion/subway-delays-overcrowding.html




> *‘Overcrowding’ Is Not at the Root of Delays, Subway Chief Says*
> 
> By SARAH MASLIN NIR and BRIAN M. ROSENTHALFEB. 20, 2018
> 
> In recent years, as New York City’s subway system descended into a crisis of delays and mechanical problems, transit officials repeatedly used one word to deflect blame: “overcrowding.”
> 
> A dramatic increase in riders had overwhelmed the system, clogging platforms and preventing trains from leaving stations, claimed officials from the state Capitol in Albany to the downtown Manhattan headquarters of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which runs the subway.
> 
> More than 300,000 weekday delays were classified as being caused by “overcrowding” in public reports in 2017 — about 40 percent of all delays. The subway was simply a victim of its own success, officials said.
> 
> On Tuesday, Andy Byford, the new president of New York City Transit, abruptly broke from the party line, calling the overcrowding classification “not particularly meaningful” and vowing to provide the public with more detailed information. It was the biggest change in the way the M.T.A. measures subway delays in years.
> 
> “If we’re to truly improve the service that we offer, you have to get to the underlying root cause,” Mr. Byford said at a meeting of New York City Transit, which oversees the subway and the buses. “So therefore I don’t want to just see ‘overcrowding.’ I want to see what caused that overcrowding, what was the absolute underlying root cause.”......


----------



## mrsmartman

*$213M Fix For Subway Stations Passed Against City's Wishes*

_The MTA Board finally approved eight subway station renovations._



New York City Patch said:


> NEW YORK, NY — Even the MTA's renovation plans get delayed. The state-controlled MTA Board approved a package of eight station upgrade projects worth $213 million on Thursday over continued objections from Mayor Bill de Blasio's appointees, who argued the money should go to fix the subways.
> 
> After the 10-3 vote, two companies will renovate the stations — including the 1/2/3 and A/C/E stops near bustling Penn Station — under Gov. Andrew Cuomo's Enhanced Station Initiative, a $1 billion effort to give more than 30 stations structural repairs and cosmetic fixes, such as new stairs, floors, countdown clocks and lighting. This round of projects includes six stations in Manhattan and two in the Bronx.
> 
> The work at the Penn Station stops — two of the busiest in the subway system — and three others in Manhattan is expected to be finished within 11 months of work starting...


Read more at: https://patch.com/new-york/new-york-city/penn-station-subway-upgrades-get-ok-after-more-debate










*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## GojiMet86

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/27/nyregion/subway-expand-new-jersey.html




> *A Subway Ride to New Jersey? It Could Happen, Officials Say*
> By PATRICK McGEEHANFEB. 27, 2018
> 
> 
> The idea of connecting the No. 7 subway line to New Jersey may not be quite dead yet.
> 
> The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey is commissioning a long-term study of ways to expand the use of rapid transit across the Hudson River, and it expects to get some help from the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which operates the subway.
> 
> The two authorities are teaming with New York City and New Jersey Transit to consider a wide range of options for increasing commuting capacity two decades down the road. This week, the Port Authority received several bids from firms seeking the contract to produce the study, said Rick Cotton, the agency’s executive director.
> 
> Mr. Cotton said in an interview on Tuesday that the notion of extending the No. 7 line — an idea that was briefly considered several years ago — was just one of many possibilities that would be analyzed. He said he had not discussed the feasibility of connecting the city’s subway system to New Jersey with any officials of the transportation authority, including its chairman, Joseph J. Lhota. Six years ago, Mr. Lhota said that a trans-Hudson subway extension was “not going to happen in anybody’s lifetime”...


----------



## Fabio1976

Maybe there will not be problems for the 24/7 subway service and maybe even fastrack could be superfluous in the next years:

https://www.railwayage.com/…/mta-genius-transit-challenge-…/


----------



## Woonsocket54

Fabio1976 said:


> Maybe there will not be problems for the 24/7 subway service and maybe even fastrack could be superfluous in the next years:
> 
> https://www.railwayage.com/…/mta-genius-transit-challenge-…/


The "Genius Transit Challenge" geniuses were quiet ingenious with coming up with such genius ideas as longer trains and more frequent service.


----------



## Alargule

^^

"Sorry, but you are looking for something that isn't here."


----------



## N830MH

Fabio1976 said:


> Maybe there will not be problems for the 24/7 subway service and maybe even fastrack could be superfluous in the next years:
> 
> https://www.railwayage.com/…/mta-genius-transit-challenge-…/


Excuse me! The entire website doesn't work, but I can't read the news. Sorry, man.


----------



## Woonsocket54

N830MH said:


> Excuse me! The entire website doesn't work, but I can't read the news. Sorry, man.


Try this link:

https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/rapid-transit/mta-genius-transit-challenge-winners-announced/


----------



## prageethSL

CRRC to invest $50m in New York subway train concept










































> CRRC has presented New York’s public transport operator MTA with its vision for the subway train of the future.
> CRRC MA, the Boston-based subsidiary of the Chinese train builder, was one of the winners of MTA’s Genius Transit Challenge – a competition to identify technological innovations for the city’s subway network.
> Videos explaining the concepts have been produced for each of the winning entries and posted on YouTube.
> CRRC MA plans to invest $50 million developing what it called the Subway Car of the Future.
> The new vehicles will have a 20-year operating life, a modular design and will be easy to upgrade, CRRC has said.
> The Genius Transit Challenge set out to uncover innovations in signalling, rolling stock and communications that could improve New York’s subway system – one of the oldest networks in the world.
> Other entries included a new form of train control system called TCTCS (Train-Centered Train Control System), a proposal to lengthen trains without having to extend platforms, a camera and sensor-based CBTC solution from Ansaldo STS and Thales, and an LTE communications solution put forward by Nokia.


----------



## Blackhavvk

Just copy of KL MRT train


----------



## N830MH

prageethSL said:


> CRRC to invest $50m in New York subway train concept


Wow! No rail operator? Is that driverless? They don't need rail operator. You can get inside the trains without rail operator.


----------



## prageethSL

mrsmartman said:


> *New York Subway Cuts Back Plans to Renovate Stations*


At this rate it will take at least 90 years to renovate remaining stations hno: :bash:


----------



## Woonsocket54

The 40-day shutdown of Broad Channel-Rockaway Park "S" shuttle service for flood-proofing commenced earlier this week. The "S" shuttle now goes from Rockaway Park to Far Rockaway, including service over the usually non-revenue Hammels Wye, which hasn't seen regular service since the "H" train of Nov 2012-May 2013, in the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy.









http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/subwayActionPlan/rockwayFloodProt.htm


----------



## Kot Bazilio

Third world country subway, third world country airport hno: disaster...


----------



## Woonsocket54

M train service has resumed to Metropolitan Avenue in Middle Village, Queens via Ridgewood.

M train service resumes on the Myrtle Viaduct by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

M train service resumes on the Myrtle Viaduct by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

M train service resumes on the Myrtle Viaduct by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

M train service resumes on the Myrtle Viaduct by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

M train service resumes on the Myrtle Viaduct by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


----------



## Miami High Rise

The Shanghai Metro has a peak ridership of 12 million, double the NYC subway.
Beijing Subway has seen over 12 million, with daily over 10 million.


----------



## Sopomon

Miami High Rise said:


> The Shanghai Metro has a peak ridership of 12 million, double the NYC subway.
> Beijing Subway has seen over 12 million, with daily over 10 million.


ok


----------



## MrAronymous

Who decided that yellow color walls were necessary?


----------



## webeagle12

MrAronymous said:


> Who decided that yellow color walls were necessary?


They forgot to ask you what color they should been


----------



## MrAronymous

Yes they did. Anything but yellow, to be honest. And I'm saying that with yellow being my favorite color.


----------



## phoenixboi08

The yellow is probably for high-visibility (eg. passing trucks)?

In any case, I never knew about this but 1) am shocked the steel(?) structure could support a concrete rail-bed and 2) I'm curious to know how painful the process was.

It would be nice if most of the elevated lines could be substantially renovated to reduce noise/vibrations. Among other benefits, it might obviate some of the resistance to extensions, down the line.

This project didn't seem too expensive, at least...¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## 996155

anyone disappointed at how New York has worse trains than 3rd world countries. A real shame for mayors spanning the past 4 decades who failed to make a good system of replacing trains that are more than 10-15 years old


----------



## GojiMet86

Hugh G. Reukshin said:


> anyone disappointed at how New York has worse trains than 3rd world countries. A real shame for mayors spanning the past 4 decades who failed to make a good system of replacing trains that are more than 10-15 years old



The State of New York is responsible for the system. The City can fund some of it, but it is not in charge of it.

Thus, it's the Governor, really.


----------



## N830MH

GojiMet86 said:


> The State of New York is responsible for the system. The City can fund some of it, but it is not in charge of it.
> 
> Thus, it's the Governor, really.


Yes, Governor is responsible for construction and etc.


----------



## Arnorian

Well, you can't defund the subway and use it as a piggy bank for years, and expect it to be fully functional. Cuomo is clearly scrambling because of Nixon, it'll be interesting...


----------



## phoenixboi08

Hugh G. Reukshin said:


> anyone disappointed at how New York has worse trains than 3rd world countries. A real shame for mayors spanning the past 4 decades who failed to make a good system of replacing trains that are more than 10-15 years old


We could go into why that statement is really a tautology, but for now can we just...can we move beyond the whole "_OMG_ *[* _Wealthy/Developed Country/City_*]* _has the infrastructure of/looks like that of a _*[* _3rd World/Developing Country/City]_*]*," because "_3rd World_" isn't a very useful hueristic¹ for understanding differences in global patterns of economic development and investment.


_____________________________________________________________
¹ _Due to the complex history of evolving meanings and contexts, there is no clear or agreed-upon definition of the Third World.[1] Some countries in the Communist Bloc, such as Cuba, were often regarded as "Third World". Because many Third World countries were economically poor, and non-industrialized, it became a stereotype to refer to poor countries as "third world countries", yet the "Third World" term is also often taken to include newly industrialized countries like Brazil, India and China now more commonly referred to as part of BRIC. Historically, some European countries were non-aligned and a few of these were and are very prosperous, including Ireland, Austria, Sweden, Finland, Switzerland and Yugoslavia_ (Wikipedia; linked above, What Was the Third World?).


----------



## mrsmartman

phoenixboi08 said:


> We could go into why that statement is really a tautology, but for now can we just...can we move beyond the whole "_OMG_ *[* _Wealthy/Developed Country/City_*]* _has the infrastructure of/looks like that of a _*[* _3rd World/Developing Country/City][/I*]*," because "3rd World" isn't a very useful hueristic¹ for understanding differences in global patterns of economic development and investment.
> 
> 
> _____________________________________________________________
> ¹ Due to the complex history of evolving meanings and contexts, there is no clear or agreed-upon definition of the Third World.[1] Some countries in the Communist Bloc, such as Cuba, were often regarded as "Third World". Because many Third World countries were economically poor, and non-industrialized, it became a stereotype to refer to poor countries as "third world countries", yet the "Third World" term is also often taken to include newly industrialized countries like Brazil, India and China now more commonly referred to as part of BRIC. Historically, some European countries were non-aligned and a few of these were and are very prosperous, including Ireland, Austria, Sweden, Finland, Switzerland and Yugoslavia (Wikipedia; linked above, What Was the Third World?)._


_

Those people probably have never been to a "third-world country". Despite all its flaws, the New York City Subway is still one of the best subway systems in the world._


----------



## 996155

I was born in one lol, New York's subway system is a mess,and their cars are on an average basis 15-25 years old. 
Compared to other places I've visited Amsterdam, Paris, Toronto, and etc. New York is lagging behind. The fact that china surpassed New York's subway system despite them not having a single one till the late 1990s is embarrassing, but that's just my opinion


----------



## Stuu

Hugh G. Reukshin said:


> I was born in one lol, New York's subway system is a mess,and their cars are on an average basis 15-25 years old.


Subway trains are designed and built to last 30-40 years, so the average age of the fleet with as many cars as NY should always be around 15-20 years old.

Its not the cars that are the problem in NY, it's the signalling and track that needs the most attention


----------



## 996155

Stuu said:


> Subway trains are designed and built to last 30-40 years, so the average age of the fleet with as many cars as NY should always be around 15-20 years old.
> 
> Its not the cars that are the problem in NY, it's the signalling and track that needs the most attention


I should clarify, the age is a small problem it is the state of the cars that bothers me, some of these cars probably have maintenance once every year at best, Just listen to some horror stories in New York subways, and subway trains and you'll understand.

Also you a train will be late or delayed at least once every hour at the subway, where tokyo, beijing and etc might be once a week/month.


----------



## prageethSL

* Continuously welded rail installations from 19.9 miles to 39.8 miles of track*














Governor Cuomo Demonstrates Track Improvement Work as Part of Subway Action Plan by governorandrewcuomo, on Flickr


----------



## Stuu

Hugh G. Reukshin said:


> I should clarify, the age is a small problem it is the state of the cars that bothers me, some of these cars probably have maintenance once every year at best, Just listen to some horror stories in New York subways, and subway trains and you'll understand.


Do you really believe subway cars get maintained once a year at best? :nuts:


----------



## 996155

Stuu said:


> Do you really believe subway cars get maintained once a year at best? :nuts:


That's not even a crazy suggestion lol, If you do it on a weekly basis it's like less than 10 cars a week


----------



## mrsmartman

Express tracks cannot be built without the tried-and-true "cut-and-cover" method, which is more suitable for New York City.










Source: https://www.quora.com/How-and-when-...-built-between-boroughs-especially-underwater

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## phoenixboi08

Hugh G. Reukshin said:


> I was born in one lol, New York's subway system is a mess,and their cars are on an average basis 15-25 years old.
> Compared to other places I've visited Amsterdam, Paris, Toronto, and etc. New York is lagging behind.


_You missed the point_.
What you're essentially saying when you say "_Worse than a 3rd World Country_" is that a, "_modern system has better technology than one built and designed 100+ years ago_."


That whole "3rd World" crap is meaningless...the term as a pejorative is strange because no one agrees on what it _actually_ means - and the thinking behind it is oxymoronic. 



Why wouldn't a metro system built largely since the end of the first decade of the 21st C.¹ function better than one that hasn't built any substantial extension since the early to mid 20th C. - all the while, the latter system 1) never once charging adequate fares or 2) adequately investing in proper upkeep?


NYC Subway isn't in the state it's in because it's old; it's been poorly-managed...I don't know why people seem to cling to this frame that "_3rd World_" countries can't be well-managed and/or that "_1st World_" countries have to be...



*The frame is just dumb. For the love of all that is good -- and what remains of my hairline -- stop using it. It's coded language that's difficult to parse, has very little meaning, and is just incorrect*.


The subway is run poorly. It has been for a long time. NYC has never been properly administered, and it's history since the '70s has largely been as a 'ward' of the state. No one is gonna call you crazy for critiquing the system. 



Hugh G. Reukshin said:


> The fact that china surpassed New York's subway system despite them not having a single one till the late 1990s is embarrassing, but that's just my opinion


Nor are you pointing out something particularly revelatory that, say, Shanghai/Seoul/Bangkok/Kuala Lumpur/Hanoi/Singapore/etc have disproportionately modern systems; especially compared to NYC. I have a generally difficult time what your point is, honestly...are you saying NYC, as wealthy city, has to always have 'better everything/always' because of that? Because, if so, you're going to continue to be disappointed.


The "_3rd World_" crap is just dumb as hell, I'm sorry.
____________________________________________________________
¹inb4: "But London/Paris/blah blah are older systems;" Yes, and they also never suffered substantial under-investment/maintained a state-of-good-repair. That's the point-at-hand...


----------



## DaeguDuke

Just my two cents, but a single ticket in London on the tube can cost you up to ~$11.50. The equivalent seems to be ~$3 in NY. We have a complicated fare structure - season tickets, day caps, railcards, peak/offpeak etc, and a really limited nighttime service. The systems might be of similar age, but London costs riders significantly more and gets a lot of government funding. To compare the two is to compare two very different systems. Might as well try comparing a US hospital visit cost to the NHS here. My two cents is that either you up ticket prices, introduce complicated fares, or you could get Trump to put more money into it. Otherwise you’ll continue treading water


----------



## nidave

DaeguDuke said:


> Just my two cents, but a single ticket in London on the tube can cost you up to ~$11.50. The equivalent seems to be ~$3 in NY. We have a complicated fare structure - season tickets, day caps, railcards, peak/offpeak etc, and a really limited nighttime service. The systems might be of similar age, but London costs riders significantly more and gets a lot of government funding. To compare the two is to compare two very different systems. Might as well try comparing a US hospital visit cost to the NHS here. My two cents is that either you up ticket prices, introduce complicated fares, or you could get Trump to put more money into it. Otherwise you’ll continue treading water



Your pricing is a little out, but your point is still a valid one. 
Source xe.com
https://www.toptiplondon.com/transport/tickets/oyster-card/single-underground-tickets

Zone 1 - the center of London - most expensive route to travel 
Single: off-peak £2.40 = $3.26
Single: peak £2.40 = $3.26
Cash single £4.90 = $6.66

Zone 1–6 
Single: off-peak £3.10 = $4.21
Single: peak £5.10 = $6.92
Cash single £6.00 = $9.15

Plus London will get no more funding from central government. This came into force in 2018.
In 2015 the grant was £591m


----------



## sotonsi

^^ I expect dodgy tourist guides to ignore that the tube reaches zone 9*, but you are normally much more informed than to think them a good source. It doesn't help that TfL hide its fare structure behind the single fare finder and the like, but...

Zone 1-9 (a primary source - though it is 2017 fares, they are frozen and the Oyster ones match both my recent Oyster history, and the excellent Oyster hobbyist site. Dollar conversion google just now).
single: off-peak £4.10 = $5.57
single: peak £7.00 = $9.51
cash single: £8.50 = $11.55

Daegu's pricing is spot on.

*despite there being rather a lot for the foreign visitor to London out here in zones 7-9: good walks through a designated Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty, lovely historic towns... Not that I'm biased about where I live or anything


----------



## goodybear

But why is the subway system so poorly managed? Why can't they just try and improve the management and then improve the system by raising prices (but not too much)?


----------



## Arnorian

goodybear said:


> But why is the subway system so poorly managed? Why can't they just try and improve the management and then improve the system by raising prices (but not too much)?


See http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=146461483&postcount=4742


----------



## phoenixboi08

DaeguDuke said:


> Just my two cents, but a single ticket in London on the tube can cost you up to ~$11.50. The equivalent seems to be ~$3 in NY. We have a complicated fare structure - season tickets, day caps, railcards, peak/offpeak etc, and a really limited nighttime service. The systems might be of similar age, but London costs riders significantly more and gets a lot of government funding. To compare the two is to compare two very different systems. Might as well try comparing a US hospital visit cost to the NHS here. My two cents is that either you up ticket prices, introduce complicated fares, or you could get Trump to put more money into it. Otherwise you’ll continue treading water


The fares were a nickel for like 50 years...
"_By refusing to let the private companies charge more than a nickel for decades, inflation meant that in 1948 riders were effectively paying less than half what they had been paying in 1904._"

The fares have never covered the cost of operations, because it was always seen as politically expedient (ie. appealing to general sentiments of early 20th C. progressivism/populism) to "stick it" to private companies and force them to charge a low fare.
I think people severely take for granted to what degree existing problems have their roots in the beginnings of the system...The subways have always been debt laden, always scaled back original programs, etc.


The problem with contemporary (since the 90s or so; the first time the system was rescued from crisis) management is that it has failed to solve -- and often has exacerbated -- these problems.
It's why the "3rd World" thing doesn't make sense...given the history of the system, it's odd to expect it to be something it isn't/wasn't built to be. There's nothing inherently "3rd World" or "1st World" about that.


If anything, it's impressive it functions at all...


----------



## Anderson79

Font: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/7952157458/in/[email protected]/


----------



## Miami High Rise

It's a 2012 picture captioned:



> Maintenance on our R32s cars will keep them on the rails until new R179 cars are delivered. We're doing a limited-scope maintenance makeover on four cars per week.
> 
> 
> With their once-gleaming stainless-steel bodies dulled by age and their windows scarred by the negative attention of vandals, MTA New York City Transit's R32 subway cars are living out their final years of service until the arrival of their replacements. In order to make those last trips go more smoothly, however, the cars are "having a little work done."


lol just a few more years, try a decade more service.


----------



## N830MH

Miami High Rise said:


> It's a 2012 picture captioned:
> 
> 
> 
> lol just a few more years, try a decade more service.


Yeah, probably they have wait for next few decade or so. If they retired R32 and they will delivered new R179.


----------



## mrsmartman

> *How NYC subway history still affects service today*
> 
> _NYC has the legal right at any time to take back control of its assets; this includes the subway and most of the bus system._
> 
> By Larry Penner
> 
> [...]
> 
> *Until the 1960s, most subway stations had clean, safe, working bathrooms with toilet paper.* Revenues generated from a 10-cent fee helped cover the costs. It was common to find both penny gum and 10 cent soda machines dispensing products at many subway stations. *It was a time when people respected authority and law. That generation of riders did not litter subway stations and buses leaving behind gum, candy wrappers, paper cups, bottles and newspapers. No one would openly eat pizza, chicken or other messy foods while riding a bus or subway.*
> 
> [...]
> 
> Today, Gov. Andrew Cuomo is serving as the hired superintendent running the MTA hired by NYC, who is actual landlord or owner of NYC Transit buses and subways.
> 
> All have long forgotten that buried within the 1953 master agreement between the City of New York and NYC Transit is an escape clause. *NYC has the legal right at any time to take back control of its assets. This includes the subway and most of the bus system.* Actions speak louder than words. If municipal officials feel they could do a better job managing the MTA, including running the nation's largest subway system, man up and regain control.
> 
> Instead of complaining, Mayor Bill de Blasio should come up with the balance of $2.5 billion the City still owes toward fully funding the $32 billion MTA 2015 - 2019 Five Year Capital Program and provide several billion more. City Hall should match Albany dollar for dollar in any increased assistance. Governor Andrew Cuomo should deliver the outstanding balance $5.8 billion balance toward his original $8.3 billion pledge plus his most recent new commitment of an additional $1 billion. MTA NYCT can't afford to wait until 2018 or 2019 for both de Blasio and Cuomo to make good on their respective promised financial commitments.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Read More: https://www.metro.us/news/local-news/new-york/nyc-municipal-transit-subway-history-larry-penner












Costumed revelers ride an antique subway train during a "Vintage Tea Party" hosted by Levy's Unique New York tour group December 13, 2009. (Getty Images)

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## CB31

Emma G. Fitzsimmons Verified account @emmagf



> Here's a link to the full 75-page plan to modernize New York City Transit: https://bit.ly/2LnRMyD


----------



## binhai

Good luck.


----------



## LTA1992

CB31 said:


> Emma G. Fitzsimmons Verified account @emmagf


The biggest hurdle I see is convincing politicians that the actual funding amount is needed.

When it comes to the implementation if or when those funds are acquired, I have no doubts on this being completed. It also seems like they staggered the lines to get CBTC based on what was already in progress and when new cars are supposed to come in or already exist.

The MTA has done it before when the system was in a worse state. Though a call to Rockefeller is what got them the money. We need something like that to happen again.


----------



## tg2434

https://ny.curbed.com/2018/5/23/17383870/nyc-subway-mta-overhaul-andy-byford-plan
May 23,2018
*New NYCT chief has a plan to modernize the subway in the next decade*


> The focus of this plan, which is being put forward by the new New York City Transit chief Andy Byford, is understandably the sputtering signal system. Byford’s plan significantly speeds up the original new signal timeline; the agency previously estimated that a signal overhaul could take 50 years, but under Byford’s plan, *major changes could be seen as soon as five years.*
> 
> The *first five years will focus on signal improvements along the 4,5,6 and A,C,E lines, the installation of 50 elevators across the subway system* to make it more accessible, the creation of a new payment system, and the addition of 650 new subway cars, among other additions. Other upgrades involve creating bathrooms at stations, and doing general repair work at 150 stations.



They Also now have a website for this too: https://fastforward.mta.info and Presentation Deck


----------



## CB31

LTA1992 said:


> The biggest hurdle I see is convincing politicians that the actual funding amount is needed.


Exactly. Just an exemple of how politics in New York is ruining people life:

*Andy Byford's ambitious plan to fix the subway is already facing obstacles*












> The new leader of New York City’s subway may know exactly how to fix the tattered system, but navigating the morass of the state’s political class has already emerged as a much bigger challenge.
> 
> On Wednesday, Andy Byford, who arrived in January after running Toronto’s transit system, unveiled his vision for finally building a reliable subway. But the scale of the work and its potential price tag of more than $19 billion were staggering and Mr. Byford immediately found himself caught in the bitter rivalry between Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo and Mayor Bill de Blasio, who have repeatedly clashed over who should pay to rehabilitate the subway.
> 
> (...)


----------



## phoenixboi08

....the funding problem has always been the main hurdle.

Not actually figuring out what to do.


----------



## LTA1992

kerouac1848 said:


> Put in gates like Paris has if fare dodging is an issue:


I've been to Paris. If you think this will stop fare-beating, I have a bridge to sell you.

Because Paris makes fare-beating here look non-existent.


----------



## SSMEX

sotonsi said:


> ^^ Ahh, got you.
> 
> I guess they are to stop people jumping over the barriers and getting onboard for free. An issue in a lot of places, but one that is typically solved either by staff manning the gateline/ticking area deterring it, or not caring about minor losses through people getting around the gate.


I don't know this for sure but my hypothesis is that they're there to carry power/data between turnstiles. They're just not tall enough to prevent turnstile jumping.


----------



## kerouac1848

LTA1992 said:


> I've been to Paris. If you think this will stop fare-beating, I have a bridge to sell you.
> 
> Because Paris makes fare-beating here look non-existent.


You're right, it doesn't, although Paris still has lots of turnstile barriers people can jump over (and yes, they do the push-into-passenger-in-front tactic to get through gates).


----------



## DCUrbanist

*Can Andy Byford Save the Subways?*



> *Can Andy Byford Save the Subways?*
> The New Yorker
> William Finnegan
> July 9, 2018
> The new president of the New York City Transit Authority wants to make the trains (and buses) run on time. It won’t be easy.
> 
> On a cold Tuesday morning in March, Andy Byford, the president of the New York City Transit Authority, was working the subway turnstiles—the gates, as he calls them—at the Chambers Street station, in Tribeca. Byford was seven weeks into the job, which had come with a seemingly impossible mission: to rebuild the city’s beleaguered public-transit system, after years of chaotic decline and stark dysfunction. He had vowed to visit every one of New York’s subway stations—there are four hundred and seventy-two—and to ride every bus route, in an effort that was part good-will tour, part reconnaissance mission.


This is a seriously excellent profile of the new New York City Transit Authority president, Andy Byford. It's a great look into his accomplishments in London and Toronto, some really great context into the politics he's up against, and how he's already making impacts. It's a long read, but I highly recommend!


----------



## Stuu

DCUrbanist said:


> *Can Andy Byford Save the Subways?*
> 
> 
> 
> This is a seriously excellent profile of the new New York City Transit Authority president, Andy Byford. It's a great look into his accomplishments in London and Toronto, some really great context into the politics he's up against, and how he's already making impacts. It's a long read, but I highly recommend!


It is a great article, but the bit where he says he hasn't spoken to the mayor once is pretty shocking - surely not a good sign for the future


----------



## Hudson11

SSMEX said:


> I don't know this for sure but my hypothesis is that they're there to carry power/data between turnstiles. They're just not tall enough to prevent turnstile jumping.


That's what I think as well. I was joking about the jumping, though it is an amusing picture to imagine.


----------



## JohnDee

When is 2nd avenue phase 2 starting? They are taking their damn sweet time, Jesus Christ.

I


----------



## LTA1992

JohnDee said:


> When is 2nd avenue phase 2 starting? They are taking their damn sweet time, Jesus Christ.
> 
> I


Who knows. Preliminary work should have begun already.

However, I'd rather them start over and send that thing straight to The Hub. A far better terminal on a route actually worth 6 Billion which would guarantee The Bronx two branches of the line.


----------



## Stuu

The MTA website says that they are at preliminary design and environmental review stage. As quite a bit of the tunnels already exist it should be a bit easier to get on with. They might even get it built within the next decade


----------



## LTA1992

So who wants a healthy dose of depression?

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-metro-cuomo-de-blasio-subway-funding-20180712-story.html

Personally, I think the State should pay 60 percent, leaving the City and Feds to pay 20 percent each.

I say the Feds because we give them a nice chunk of cash too and as we all know, that would never have been possible, at this level anyway, without the subways. And the Board agrees.


----------



## CB31

You guys why you don't just get rid of Cuomo ?


----------



## N830MH

CB31 said:


> You guys why you don't just get rid of Cuomo ?



You can't! They won't get rid of him. He's here to stay. He's running for next 3rd terms.


----------



## luacstjh98

Not if Cynthia Nixon wins.


----------



## GojiMet86

*The renovated 30th and 36th Avenue stations*

*36th Avenue*








IMG_9553 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9547 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9545 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9549 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9550 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9560 by GojiMet86, on Flickr



*30th Avenue*

IMG_9579 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9584 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9585 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9588 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9592 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9593 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9595 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9599 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## Dale

Very nice! Can anyone guess the percentage of stations overall that have been spruced up like this ?


----------



## sergiogiorgini

I'm always surprised at how a busy city like New York manages with those narrow platforms and even narrower flights of stairs.


----------



## lawdefender

I visited NYC many times, the outdated and poor subway system is a disgrace of NYC. 

Looking to the dirty and outdated metro stations and trains, as well as the rats running on the tracks and platforms, I felt like I was in a city of the third world.


----------



## GojiMet86

Here's one reason why the subway sucks.


https://nypost.com/2018/07/22/cuomo-had-the-mta-waste-30m-on-tunnel-vanity-project/



> *Cuomo had the MTA waste $30M on tunnel vanity project*
> 
> By Danielle Furfaro, Lois Weiss and Nolan Hicks
> 
> July 22, 2018 | 11:42pm |
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gov. Andrew Cuomo ordered the cash-strapped MTA to waste as much as $30 million on his latest vanity project — retiling two city tunnels in the state’s blue-and-gold color scheme — instead of using the dough for desperately needed subway repairs, The Post has learned.
> 
> The boondoggle began soon after the taxpayer-funded agency ordered white tiles to reline the Brooklyn-Battery and Queens-Midtown tunnels after Superstorm Sandy, documents show. The governor got wind of the plan — and insisted that the cash-strapped transit agency add stripes of blue and gold, thinking nothing of the additional $20 million to $30 million cost, according to sources and project documentation. “The white tile had already been ordered, but he insisted that [the walls] be in the state colors,’’ a top construction executive told The Post. Another builder confirmed that Cuomo ordered the super-costly tile change.
> 
> The move now has some on the MTA board seeing red. “We could have found much better uses for that money — especially because most people are speeding through the tunnels and not paying attention to what is on the walls,” seethed board member Andrew Albert. A second member added, “This is exactly the type of distraction, expense and use of the MTA by the governor as a marketing tool that is at the root of many of our problems.” The Cuomo-controlled MTA quietly approved the change in November 2016, just months before straphangers endured the “Summer of Hell” as years of neglect caught up with the system.
> 
> The MTA is still struggling to find cash to overhaul its decrepit subway signal system, replace decades-old trains and repair crumbling stations. The MTA buried Cuomo’s tile change in two contract amendments worth $62.6 million. Gavin Masterson, chief procurement officer of the Bridges and Tunnels division, described the changes at a committee meeting as “modifications to meet New York State branding guidelines.” The MTA refused to make the contracts available to The Post.
> 
> The governor cut the ribbon at the Queens-Midtown Tunnel on Friday, revealing the blue and gold stripes that run its length — and quipped about the added burden. “These construction workers had an added burden to deal with because every time I went through the tunnel, I would get out, and I would call them over and say, ‘You see this tile is crooked,’ ” Cuomo said. But the micro-managing is no laughing matter to some workers, who say it’s gotten so bad, they call him “Chief Engineer Cuomo.”
> 
> The tunnels are just the latest example of Cuomo’s vanity spending. His office bragged in 2016 about painting the MTA’s new subway cars in the blue-and-gold color scheme, which later appeared on the MTA’s new city buses. State police cars have been repainted in the same colors.
> 
> Straphangers were outraged over the wasteful spending.
> 
> “I don’t know what cousin of [Cuomo’s] works at what agency that cooked up this idea,” said Katrina Brinkley, 39, as she stood under a dangling wire inside the crumbling Chambers Street J/Z station near City Hall — where missing tiles and leaking ceilings are the norm. “This station is decrepit. That money could go to so many other things." Le-André Ramroop of Brooklyn added, “Has [Cuomo] ever seen this place? Has he been down here?”
> 
> MTA rep Jon Weinstein did not dispute the pricy tile change, only saying, “There were absolutely no wasted tiles. “The tunnel reconstruction project is an unmitigated success — finished nine months ahead of schedule and with resiliency and security measures that protect millions of New Yorkers.”
> 
> Cuomo spokesman Peter Ajemian added, “We’re proud that we completed this project on budget and ahead of schedule thanks to the men and women at the MTA and other partners.”


----------



## LTA1992

I don't think I can complain too much about that considering how little 30 Million actually is these days.

Literally, the most bang for every buck in that amount would have been around 30 new 40-foot diesel buses.

Otherwise, there's not much 30 Million can do. It's barely enough for a 10-car train these days. Maybe a single station renovation WITHOUT elevators.


----------



## Danton05

LTA1992 said:


> I don't think I can complain too much about that considering how little 30 Million actually is these days.
> 
> Literally, the most bang for every buck in that amount would have been around 30 new 40-foot diesel buses.
> 
> Otherwise, there's not much 30 Million can do. It's barely enough for a 10-car train these days. Maybe a single station renovation WITHOUT elevators.


How about elevators for a couple of stations but without full renovations? That would actually improve the lives of a number of people that need it.

I don't buy the line that $30m is nothing so it might as well be spent on colored tiles. That idea is part of the reason New York so incredibly inefficient at spending money.


----------



## ok2

Maybe because of this: 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...ifice-are-slaughterhouse-legal-animal-killing

They must have escaped.


.


----------



## CB31

New Yorkers could you kick this horrible governor, Andrew Cuomo, out of New York to finally start repairing the crumbling subway system reach:

*New York's Cuomo, Nixon Clash Over Subways in Tense Debate*













> One of the most heated exchanges centered on New York City’s aging mass transit system. Nixon claimed subway delays have tripled under Cuomo and that train speeds are slower today than in 1950.
> 
> Cuomo, when asked if the state’s Metropolitan Transportation Authority would consider scrapping a planned fare increase and have the state make up a reported $350 million transportation revenue shortfall, said that New York City owned the subway system and wasn’t doing enough -- an apparent jab at the city’s mayor, Bill De Blasio, a rival.
> 
> *‘Completely Disingenuous’*
> 
> “If the city will do it 50-50, I will do it,” he said. “We need $33 billion -- the state can’t do it,” he said. “It’s a shared city-state responsibility and I say let’s do it 50-50.”
> 
> Nixon, who said that if elected she would delay the fare increase and address the financing gap, argued that *the subways were, ultimately, the state’s responsibility*. “‘To pretend it’s anything else is completely disingenuous,” she said.
> 
> “*Yes, it preceded Andrew Cuomo but he stole hundreds of millions of dollars from the MTA budget for his pet projects that have nothing to do with it*,” Nixon said, adding that Cuomo has had more than seven years to avoid the crisis.
> 
> *The governor, she said, "used the MTA like an ATM*."
> 
> Cuomo retorted: "My opponent lives in the world of fiction. I live in the world of fact."
> 
> *De Blasio Weighs In*
> 
> De Blasio, who hasn’t made an endorsement in the race but has political ties with Nixon, backed her on the transit issue with a tweet on Wednesday evening.
> 
> “*The state runs the MTA. @NYGovCuomo knows this. I know he’s really bad at it - every New Yorker does - but he can’t just pretend it’s not his fault because it’s election time*,” the mayor said.
> 
> Nixon, raising the topic of corruption in Albany, sought to link Cuomo to the conviction of his former aide, Joe Percoco, on charges that he took bribes from companies seeking state economic development funds. Cuomo said Percoco had engaged in wrongdoing and would pay the price, but that everyone agrees he had “nothing to do with it, period.”


----------



## Arnorian

I don't understand why New Yorkers keep electing this DINO.


----------



## HARTride 2012

We're getting closer to the reopening of Cortlandt St on the (1).

Source: NY Post



> The No. 1 line’s Cortlandt Street subway station is set to reopen for the first time since 9/11, paying special homage to the tragedy by including incorporating “World Trade Center” into its name, according to photos and workers.


Full Story: https://nypost.com/2018/08/24/subwa...medium=site buttons&utm_campaign=site buttons


----------



## Woonsocket54

110th Street (Cathedral Parkway) station on the (B)(C) trains has reopened following cosmetic improvements.









https://twitter.com/CandaceMcCowan7/status/1036962990413766659









https://twitter.com/CandaceMcCowan7/status/1036962990413766659









https://twitter.com/CandaceMcCowan7/status/1036962990413766659









https://twitter.com/NeubauerKelsey/status/1036760816324886528









https://twitter.com/pierregooding/status/1036736188823089154









https://twitter.com/MDiamond8/status/1036948632019324930









https://twitter.com/MDiamond8/status/1036948632019324930









https://twitter.com/MDiamond8/status/1036948632019324930









https://twitter.com/MDiamond8/status/1036948632019324930









https://twitter.com/NYCTSubway/status/1036725614106091520









https://twitter.com/NYCTSubway/status/1036725614106091520









https://twitter.com/NYCTSubway/status/1036725614106091520


----------



## Woonsocket54

^^ more photos of reopened 110th Street-Cathedral Parkway station

Reopening of Cathedral Pkwy-110 St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of Cathedral Pkwy-110 St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of Cathedral Pkwy-110 St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of Cathedral Pkwy-110 St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of Cathedral Pkwy-110 St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of Cathedral Pkwy-110 St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of Cathedral Pkwy-110 St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of Cathedral Pkwy-110 St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of Cathedral Pkwy-110 St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of Cathedral Pkwy-110 St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of Cathedral Pkwy-110 St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


----------



## Stuu

Woonsocket54 said:


> ^^ more photos of reopened 110th Street-Cathedral Parkway station


Very nice, seems a shame the floors have been left so dirty - makes it look unfinished, which perhaps it is


----------



## Pierre50

Very nice job with bright colors and new technologies.


----------



## MrAronymous

The floors aren't dirty (they have been powerwashed), they're just old. I think it's quite the difference compared to the old situation.


----------



## Woonsocket54

HARTride 2012 said:


> We're getting closer to the reopening of Cortlandt St on the (1).
> 
> Source: NY Post
> 
> 
> 
> Full Story: https://nypost.com/2018/08/24/subwa...medium=site buttons&utm_campaign=site buttons


This station may reopen as soon as this upcoming Saturday, according to a local blog.

https://tribecacitizen.com/2018/09/05/world-trade-center-subway-station-opens-this-saturday/


----------



## Woonsocket54

"*Hudson Yards Subway Station Gains New Entrance*"

https://patch.com/new-york/midtown-nyc/hudson-yards-subway-station-gains-new-entrance


----------



## IsaanUSA

Yeah, that's not power washed.


----------



## ok2

Does anyone know if they are going to install elevators on all renovated stations in Astoria, Queens? There are currently working I believe on 6 above ground stations by replacing pretty much everything. In my opinion, now is the time to install elevators so the subways stops can be accessed by parents with baby strollers and people on wheelchairs. It will be quite disappointing if they miss the opportunity to add elevators now.


----------



## Woonsocket54

ok2 said:


> Does anyone know if they are going to install elevators on all renovated stations in Astoria, Queens? There are currently working I believe on 6 above ground stations by replacing pretty much everything. In my opinion, now is the time to install elevators so the subways stops can be accessed by parents with baby strollers and people on wheelchairs. It will be quite disappointing if they miss the opportunity to add elevators now.


Only at Astoria Boulevard will elevators be added.

https://qns.com/story/2018/04/13/mt...ing-elevators-astoria-boulevard-station-2019/


----------



## HARTride 2012

Woonsocket54 said:


> This station may reopen as soon as this upcoming Saturday, according to a local blog.
> 
> https://tribecacitizen.com/2018/09/05/world-trade-center-subway-station-opens-this-saturday/


Just read that.


----------



## Slartibartfas

IsaanUSA said:


> Yeah, that's not power washed.
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/Txp9xGP.jpg


I suppose what you can see there is clean for NYC subway standards, is it?


----------



## DiogoBaptista

* WTC Cortlandt*

*WTC Cortlandt 1 Station Opening*
The MTA opened the new WTC Cortlandt subway station on Saturday, September 8, 2018, restoring a subway stop to a resurgent area of Lower Manhattan that has once again become a major transit and commercial hub following the 9/11 terrorist attacks.


New WTC Cortlandt 1 Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


"CHORUS" by Ann Hamilton by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


New WTC Cortlandt 1 Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


New WTC Cortlandt 1 Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


New WTC Cortlandt 1 Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


New WTC Cortlandt 1 Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


New WTC Cortlandt 1 Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


New WTC Cortlandt 1 Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


New WTC Cortlandt 1 Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


New WTC Cortlandt 1 Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


New WTC Cortlandt 1 Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


New WTC Cortlandt 1 Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


New WTC Cortlandt 1 Station by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


"CHORUS" by Ann Hamilton by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


----------



## sweet-d

It's good to see renovated stations being reopened again. Hopefully they can stay in good condition and don't look like trash in 5 to 10 years.


----------



## DiogoBaptista

next


----------



## DiogoBaptista

* WTC Cortlandt*


__
http://instagr.am/p/p%2FBnjI4keF-3I/


__
http://instagr.am/p/p%2FBnjSvv9Fqt4/


__
http://instagr.am/p/p%2FBnjGPcAho44/


__
http://instagr.am/p/p%2FBnjGaQiB388/


__
http://instagr.am/p/p%2FBnh_prLh-lS/


__
http://instagr.am/p/p%2FBnepghonOjA/


__
http://instagr.am/p/p%2FBnjEHzpHYoW/


__
http://instagr.am/p/p%2FBnemUZgABjz/


__
http://instagr.am/p/p%2FBnevXuPHHKL/


__
http://instagr.am/p/p%2FBne1NCSHd0z/


__
http://instagr.am/p/p%2FBnffzHLlwKy/


__
http://instagr.am/p/p%2FBnghrZFlNvx/


__
http://instagr.am/p/p%2FBng3GxJBf6V/


__
http://instagr.am/p/p%2FBnju8F2nYNi/


__
http://instagr.am/p/p%2FBngxw8hHQlw/


__
http://instagr.am/p/p%2FBne0u38lP9K/


__
http://instagr.am/p/p%2FBnert5Ugxmv/


__
http://instagr.am/p/p%2FBni9yGMBgUy/


__
http://instagr.am/p/p%2FBnhtyhdl8_j/


__
http://instagr.am/p/p%2FBnhpoSMAvz7/


----------



## HARTride 2012

Overall, I like how this station was done - especially the semi-open layout.


----------



## Ultramatic

17 years to rebuild. It boggles the mind.


----------



## luacstjh98

I remember them having to wait for the PATH works to finish downstairs before they could do anything major to the subway station...


----------



## phoenixboi08

Ultramatic said:


> 17 years to rebuild. It boggles the mind.


....The PANYNJ didn't hand over the area until like a ~1.5 ago or so.
It didn't take 17 years to rebuild the station


----------



## Mascabrother

17 years for a white wall and yellow paint. The MTA is so mediocre that it hurts.


----------



## Nexis

Mascabrother said:


> 17 years for a white wall and yellow paint. The MTA is so mediocre that it hurts.


Once again it wasn't in the MTA hands intill a year and half ago...the PA held up the project for 16 years.


----------



## phoenixboi08

Nexis said:


> Once again it wasn't in the MTA hands intill a year and half ago...the PA held up the project for 16 years.


It doesn't matter how much you repeat this, it won't get through some people's thick skulls: They _want_ this narrative to be true, so it confirms what they want to think.

By and large, the one thing the MTA is semi-successful* at is these station rehabilitations: They've almost all been done at-cost/on-schedule.



*_they really should be able to add elevators/escalators far more reliably/cheaply than is currently the case. That's my only gripe with these projects (and the rehabilitation program, generally)._


----------



## Ultramatic

phoenixboi08 said:


> ....The PANYNJ didn't hand over the area until like a ~1.5 ago or so.
> It didn't take 17 years to rebuild the station



17 years to rebuild. I'm not splitting hairs. *17 YEARS TOTAL!* It's a disgrace. The Port Authority should be dissolved.


----------



## phoenixboi08

Ultramatic said:


> 17 years to rebuild. I'm not splitting hairs. *17 YEARS TOTAL!* It's a disgrace. The Port Authority should be dissolved.


Okay...:nuts:
1. Sorry you're so afflicted about it, but the temporary PATH station doesn't get demolished until the new station is completed.
2. That doesn't get completed until most major construction is completed (eg. there's a reason 2WTC had its base constructed even though no financing/tenant existed to continue construction)
3. Major construction hinged upon clean-up and...securing anchors and financing to do so.
4. The original complex took decades to fully finish and lease up.
5. This really shouldn't bother you, but I'm sorry it does (maybe it would help you sleep at night to stop thinking of the WTC as a single development and simply a neighborhood with a comprehensive, district plan?).


----------



## bench_mark_2

While it could be understandable that this particular refurbishment was slightly more difficult than others, it could not be argued that NYC is absolutely unable to deliver even one new station or one mile of new tunnels on time and at a reasonable price. The existing stations and lines are falling apart, the system is outrageously outdated, even the customer service is stuck in the 70s. 

I do not think that there is any other underground system in the developed world with such big problems.


----------



## FabriFlorence

Ultramatic said:


> 17 years to rebuild. I'm not splitting hairs. *17 YEARS TOTAL!* It's a disgrace. The Port Authority should be dissolved.


it's not the worst thing that can happen. In Boston there is a project to extend the blue line that is 30 years old... hno:


----------



## Woonsocket54

FabriFlorence said:


> it's not the worst thing that can happen. In Boston there is a project to extend the blue line that is 30 years old... hno:


The Green Line to Medford/Somerville?


----------



## Stuu

FabriFlorence said:


> it's not the worst thing that can happen. In Boston there is a project to extend the blue line that is 30 years old... hno:


Every big city has proposed lines that aren't built or will never be built... they didn't start building 30 years ago and are still not finished


----------



## Woonsocket54

A hole opened up in the ceiling of one of the Barclays Center station platforms this morning.









https://twitter.com/SarahisSorry/status/1043113661865381888


----------



## JHPart

Or even more worse. They could start building the metro line, but never finished the work.


----------



## Zack Fair

Woonsocket54 said:


> A hole opened up in the ceiling of one of the Barclays Center station platforms this morning.
> 
> https://twitter.com/SarahisSorry/status/1043113661865381888


Wow. 

The MTA needs to get their shit together before someone get injured or worse.


----------



## Ultramatic

phoenixboi08 said:


> Okay...:nuts:
> 1. Sorry you're so afflicted about it, but the temporary PATH station doesn't get demolished until the new station is completed.
> 2. That doesn't get completed until most major construction is completed (eg. there's a reason 2WTC had its base constructed even though no financing/tenant existed to continue construction)
> 3. Major construction hinged upon clean-up and...securing anchors and financing to do so.
> 4. The original complex took decades to fully finish and lease up.
> 5. This really shouldn't bother you, but I'm sorry it does (maybe it would help you sleep at night to stop thinking of the WTC as a single development and simply a neighborhood with a comprehensive, district plan?).



Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were some sort of mouthpiece. It reeks of bureaucratic BS. 

I'll try and simplify my position.

The real reason it took so long? *YEARS* of Port Authority ineptitude, revolting political infighting and outright greed. *YEARS* of nothing being done because the parties involved were too busy being in a pissing contest. Not clean up, not financing, not tenants. It was bureaucracy, entrenched, inefficient, corrupt bureaucracy, plain and simple. 

17 years for reopening a subway station. _*SEVENTEEN YEARS*_.


----------



## toquielkan

Zack Fair said:


> Wow.
> 
> The MTA needs to get their shit together before someone get injured or worse.



Probably, considering the current economic reality of the US. if some big tragedy happends, the MTA will close some stations, and not fix it.


----------



## Mascabrother

Woonsocket54 said:


> A hole opened up in the ceiling of one of the Barclays Center station platforms this morning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/SarahisSorry/status/1043113661865381888


I can not wait for one of these to fall on me (without hurting me clearly) I will sue for every little trauma and delay that the MTA has gave me all these years.


----------



## Woonsocket54

*MTA press releases today*

*C train*: 163 St-Amsterdam Av Station reopens following cosmetic improvements on 2018.09.27

http://www.mta.info/press-release/n...on-reopen-after-structural-repairs-functional

*6 and 7 trains*: Beginning April 2019, there will be more rush hour service on these lines

The following (7) Subway line subway service will be added in April 2019:


Five additional round trips starting between 8 a.m. and 11 a.m. on weekdays.
Nine additional round trips starting between 5:30 p.m. and midnight on weekdays.

The following (6) Subway line trips will be added during weekday peak commute hours, to be implemented in April 2019:


One additional round trip starting between 7 a.m. and 7:30 a.m. on weekdays.
One additional round trip starting between 5 p.m. and 5:30 p.m. on weekdays.

http://www.mta.info/press-release/n...ent-6-7-subway-service-during-rush-hours-2019


----------



## Woonsocket54

Woonsocket54 said:


> *C train*: 163 St-Amsterdam Av Station reopens following cosmetic improvements on 2018.09.27


And here are the photos:

163 St-Amsterdam Av by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

163 St-Amsterdam Av by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

163 St-Amsterdam Av by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

163 St-Amsterdam Av by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

163 St-Amsterdam Av by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

163 St-Amsterdam Av by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

163 St-Amsterdam Av by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

163 St-Amsterdam Av by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

163 St-Amsterdam Av by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

163 St-Amsterdam Av by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

163 St-Amsterdam Av by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

163 St-Amsterdam Av by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

163 St-Amsterdam Av by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

163 St-Amsterdam Av by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


----------



## luacstjh98

I'm surprised the MTA hasn't done anything with those big empty IND mezzanines yet.

Those seem like low hanging fruit to get some extra money for the subway...


----------



## streetscapeer

Damn, I wish they could redo all stations like that. I feel like they didn't even do _that_ much but it looks so much better. 

The Wall Street Journal estimated that each one subway reno like this cost $43 million. So just to do half of the stations (~200 stations) would cost 9.6 Billion Dollars. (Of course the bigger stations would cost more)

I would be elated if they even did 100 of the worst-looking stations at $4.3 Billion. That's the cost of Phase 1 of the Second Ave Subway (with just 3 new stations).


----------



## Mascabrother

I have to admit, it looks incredible.


----------



## Zack Fair

toquielkan said:


> Probably, considering the current economic reality of the US. if some big tragedy happends, the MTA will close some stations, and not fix it.


What the US economy has to do with the MTA?


----------



## MrAronymous

Economic reality =/= economy. Economic reality also takes into account the construction costs, corruption and political will. The first two which are too high and the last one which seems to be quite low.


----------



## DiogoBaptista

* WTC Cortlandt*


"CHORUS" by Ann Hamilton by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


WTC Cortlandt by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


WTC Cortlandt by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


WTC Cortlandt by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


WTC Cortlandt by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


WTC Cortlandt by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr​


----------



## DiogoBaptista

Why there's a lack of benches in NYC subway? Is the headway that good in NY?

Especially on the last one, people are leaning on the walls, what a shame.

NYC subway is no longer interested in comfort.


----------



## TM_Germany

I believe they actually even removed benches from old stations to prevent bums from using them as beds. I don't understand why though, there are lots of bench-designs that prevent lying sideways on them.


----------



## Hudson11

the original City Hall Stop


The first. by Tyler, on Flickr


----------



## Woonsocket54

*Another station has reopened, featuring art by Yoko Ono*

*72 St BC Station Reopens After Major Repairs to Steel and Concrete Structure, Functional Improvements*

http://www.mta.info/press-release/n...er-major-repairs-steel-and-concrete-structure

Reopening of 72 St on B, C lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 72 St on B, C lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 72 St on B, C lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 72 St on B, C lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 72 St on B, C lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 72 St on B, C lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 72 St on B, C lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 72 St on B, C lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 72 St on B, C lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


----------



## carl_Alm

It's amazing! opcorn:


----------



## Mascabrother

Andy Byford :master:


----------



## Hudson11

*Take a vintage train to see the Yankees take on the Red Sox tonight*



> The New York Transit Museum is looking to energize baseball fans with a blast from the past, later this evening. The museum is bringing out a vintage train that will take fans from Grand Central to Yankee Stadium for the American League Division Series playoff between the Yankees and the Red Sox tonight.
> 
> The 1917 IRT Lo-V train began service just a few years before the first pitch was thrown at the original Yankee Stadium. This model still maintains its rattan seats, ceiling fans, and drop sash windows, and offers a glimpse into what subway travel was like in the early 20th century.
> 
> [...]
> 
> The vintage train will leave the uptown 4 platform, at Grand Central, at 6:30 p.m. this evening, and run non-stop on the Lexington Avenue line to 161st Street-Yankee Stadium, completing the trip in about 25 minutes. And all you need to get on board is a swipe of your MetroCard.


----------



## phoenixboi08

Mascabrother said:


> Andy Byford :master:


This program/pilot predates him...

But, of course, Pyrrhic victories and obstinate attitudes will likely see what is a rather unusually successful initiative by the MTA wither and die. Though, maybe they'll actually keep going and double down.


----------



## CB31

Hehe yeah, the guy has almost just arrived in NYC. 

Although I do like the plans he has envisioned for the MTA. But of course the main problem comes from above (NY governor, Andrew Cuomo, and the MTA governance itself).

Andy Byford can do just that much. The MTA doesn’t have the funding to upgrade the decrepit system, and Cuomo seems not to give a sh*t.


----------



## DiogoBaptista

*72nd Street*


Reopening of 72 St on B, C lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


Reopening of 72 St on B, C lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


Reopening of 72 St on B, C lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


Reopening of 72 St on B, C lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


Reopening of 72 St on B, C lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


Reopening of 72 St on B, C lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


Reopening of 72 St on B, C lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


"SKY" by Yoko Ono by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


Reopening of 72 St on B, C lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


Reopening of 72 St on B, C lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr


Reopening of 72 St on B, C lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, no Flickr​


----------



## Woonsocket54

"*72nd Street Subway Station Floods Days After Reopening Following Major Renovation*"

https://www.westsiderag.com/2018/10...ys-after-reopening-following-major-renovation


----------



## FabriFlorence

For the first time in its history, NYC subway is starting to get beautiful.


----------



## Alargule

Woonsocket54 said:


> "*72nd Street Subway Station Floods Days After Reopening Following Major Renovation*"
> 
> https://www.westsiderag.com/2018/10...ys-after-reopening-following-major-renovation


Putting lipstick on a pig...that's incontinent.


----------



## Woonsocket54

*Dog Day Afternoon*

The *23rd Street station* on the "F" train reopened last week.






















































































































Source: http://gothamist.com/2018/11/30/23rd_st_subway_f_m_dogs.php#photo-16









https://twitter.com/MTAArtsDesign/status/1068539020819537920









https://twitter.com/MTAArtsDesign/status/1068539020819537920

The *145th Street* station on the "3" train also reopened last week. Some photos of the artwork are available here: https://twitter.com/MTAArtsDesign/status/1067891618974507010

video:


----------



## luacstjh98

Would it be possible to provide cross-platform interchange between PATH and the subway at 14th Street?

(I think it'd probably be a matter of cutting holes in the walls and putting turnstiles in them...)


----------



## 00Zy99

Does anybody have a cross-section of the mess of tunnels under Herald Square? I keep hearing about how the southern tracks of Penn Station can't be extended because of PATH, but I would like a little more visual explanation.


----------



## Nexis

00Zy99 said:


> Does anybody have a cross-section of the mess of tunnels under Herald Square? I keep hearing about how the southern tracks of Penn Station can't be extended because of PATH, but I would like a little more visual explanation.


The only thing I can find is this map. I know the PATH can't be extended further north due to the 6th Avenue line.


----------



## CB31

*N.Y. Today: Are the Subways Improving? Not Enough.*










©Hiroko Masuike/The New York Times












> First look: “Has New York City’s Subway System Improved?” In short: some, but not enough.
> 
> That’s the bottom-line conclusion from a report coming today by the Manhattan Institute’s Nicole Gelinas.
> 
> Based on data from the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, the subways have made gains from their nadir a few years ago, but the system is hardly adequate, she writes.
> 
> Riders “are not experiencing a radical turnaround on the M.T.A.,” Ms. Gelinas concludes. “The M.T.A. has not yet proved that it can keep up with today’s record residential population, record daytime (working) population, and record tourist population.”
> 
> Meanwhile the subways’ head, Andy Byford, proposed budget cuts yesterday that will lead trains to be more crowded, cleaned half as often, and hotter in the summer, all to stave off “doomsday” service cuts. Oh well.


----------



## 00Zy99

Nexis said:


> The only thing I can find is this map. I know the PATH can't be extended further north due to the 6th Avenue line.


As a start I found this:

It was in a remote corner of my hard drive. The only problem is that it doesn't show the depth of the PATH tracks. It actually gives the impression that they are ABOVE the IND.


----------



## Nexis

00Zy99 said:


> As a start I found this:
> 
> It was in a remote corner of my hard drive. The only problem is that it doesn't show the depth of the PATH tracks. It actually gives the impression that they are ABOVE the IND.


Probably should ask on reddit on R/NYCrail should get an answer in a few hrs.


----------



## CB31

*NYC Transit Hires Signaling Expert To Modernize Subways*


----------



## CB31

*New York Times: Why Your Subway Train Might Start Moving Faster*



> Two trains collided on the Williamsburg Bridge between Manhattan and Brooklyn in 1995, killing a train operator and injuring dozens of riders. The incident, the fourth rear-end crash in a two-year span, led to rules that kept trains from going too fast.
> 
> More than two decades later, those rules have slowed down trains more than is necessary for safety, which contributes to a system plagued by delays.
> 
> Now the subway’s leader, Andy Byford, is changing the rules in some areas to speed up trains — a major effort to improve service for frustrated riders. Over the weekend, the speed limit was raised on parts of two lines in Brooklyn — the N and R trains — from 15 miles per hour to as much as 30 miles per hour. Other lines will be sped up in coming months.
> 
> “We want to keep pushing trains through the pipe and moving them,” Mr. Byford said in an interview. He will outline his plans on Monday to the Metropolitan Transportation Authority’s board, which oversees the system.
> 
> The changes to the speed limit are one piece of Mr. Byford’s sweeping plans to turn around service and modernize a system that descended into crisis last year. Workers have also started to replace faulty signals that trigger a train’s emergency brakes at low speeds, a problem investigated by The New York Times and The Village Voice that has also led to slower service.
> 
> Subway riders often wonder why an express train suddenly crawls along slowly instead of zooming to the next stop. Slow train speeds are less disruptive than major delays caused by train breakdowns and sick passengers, but they have added to the feeling that the system is constantly delayed.
> 
> Mr. Byford says he is confident that trains can travel safely at higher speeds and that fixing the balky signals will allow train operators to travel at the correct speeds.
> 
> “This is all about getting the safe maximum out of the existing signaling system,” Mr. Byford said.
> 
> Over the summer, Mr. Byford created a new “speed unit” — a three-person team that traveled every mile of track on the system in an empty train to find areas where trains could safely move faster. The team identified 130 locations where the speed limit should be increased. So far, a safety committee at the transit agency has approved 34 locations for speed increases.
> 
> Workers recently started to change speed limit signs on the first segment on the Fourth Avenue line in Brooklyn between 36th Street and 59th Street. Overall, officials plan to change the speed limits at 100 locations by the spring.
> 
> The team also found 267 faulty signals that were forcing train operators to pass at slower speeds. The equipment, known as grade time signals, was designed to halt trains that are moving too quickly. But officials kept adding more of them — eventually 2,000, some of which were misconfigured.
> 
> About 30 signals have been repaired in Brooklyn, from the DeKalb Avenue station to the 36th Street station, on the B, Q, D, N and R lines, and near the 9th Avenue station on the D line. Mr. Byford wants to eventually fix all of the faulty signals, though he cautioned that the work is complex and could take awhile.
> 
> “This is a great move and I think it’s one that a lot of people have been waiting on for quite a while,” said Benjamin Kabak, who writes the Second Ave. Sagas subway blog. “I think it can provide immediate dividends in terms of speeding up service.”
> 
> Mr. Byford, who started running the subway in January, is also pressing elected leaders to provide funding for his ambitious $40 billion proposal to modernize the subway. Installing modern signals is a key part of the plan. Last week, Mr. Byford announced the hiring of a signals expert named Pete Tomlin, who has worked on transit systems in Toronto and London, to oversee signal upgrades in New York.
> 
> Subway officials have blamed “overcrowding” and growing ridership as the main reason for delays. But Mr. Byford quickly disagreed and instead focused on finding the root causes for delays. Trains on New York’s subway system travel at about 17 miles per hour on average, the slowest of any heavy rail system in the United States, according to a 2010 analysis by a transportation planner named Matt Johnson. Trains on the Bay Area Rapid Transit in the San Francisco area, for instance, averaged 33 miles per hour, he found.
> 
> Mr. Byford is trying to correct problems that resulted from changes made after the 1995 crash. The top speed for trains on the subway is about 50 miles per hour, though most trains travel slower than that. When Mr. Byford rode trains with workers, they told him slow speeds were a major problem.


----------



## Woonsocket54

Yet another station has reopened following cosmetic repairs - 57th Street station on the F train. This one opened 1968.07.01, then closed 2018.07.09 and reopened 2018.12.19.

Reopening of 57 St on the F line by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 57 St on the F line by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 57 St on the F line by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 57 St on the F line by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 57 St on the F line by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 57 St on the F line by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 57 St on the F line by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


----------



## Woonsocket54

28th Street station on the "6" train closed 2018.07.16 and was supposed to reopen this month, but this has been delayed by a month. 










http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/StationInfo_28st/index.htm

We may see a few more reopenings this month. 174-175 Sts station on the "B"/"D" trains in the Bronx is still listed as reopening Dec 2018 (http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/StationInfo_174-175st/index.htm). Outbound 104 St on the "J" train in Queens is still listed as reopening "Fall 2018" (http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/plannedWork_JamaicaCenter_skip104_121st.htm)


----------



## TM_Germany

Some of these station refurbishments look quite nice. One thing I don't really understand is why the ceilings are left with bare concrete every time. It kind of spoils the "fresh feeling" a little.


----------



## luacstjh98

Because doing that is cheap and brutalist (in terms of architecture) I guess.


----------



## MrAronymous

I think the thinking process goes as follows: does paint on concrete need maintenance? Answer: yes, because it will chip. Look at the ceiling above the tracks for inspiration.


----------



## teh_pwn

What kills me is the shoddy workmanship. It's new and it already looks old, dirty and crooked. This is totally unacceptable given how expensive these "renovations" are. Don't they have quality control? SMH


----------



## BoulderGrad

teh_pwn said:


> What kills me is the shoddy workmanship. It's new and it already looks old, dirty and crooked. This is totally unacceptable given how expensive these "renovations" are. Don't they have quality control? SMH


Most of the renovation is just cleaning the existing structure (e.g. the ceiling beams are original). 100 year old concrete has sags and chips. Now it just isn't covered in 100 years of the grime of humanity.


----------



## Slartibartfas

It is a bit depressing to see how even after such an overhaul the ceiling and the floors still look incredibly shabby and worse than what one can see in some 3rd world country systems. More depressing might only be that this is already a massive improvement to how those stations looked like before, which was actually way worse than 3rd world.


----------



## teh_pwn

BoulderGrad said:


> Most of the renovation is just cleaning the existing structure (e.g. the ceiling beams are original). 100 year old concrete has sags and chips. Now it just isn't covered in 100 years of the grime of humanity.


I meant the parts that are new, such as floors etc. They look awful. And again, it cost us millions of dollars and months of repairs.


----------



## BoulderGrad

teh_pwn said:


> I meant the parts that are new, such as floors etc. They look awful. And again, it cost us millions of dollars and months of repairs.


That was the point. The floors are not new, they've just been cleaned.


----------



## teh_pwn

BoulderGrad said:


> That was the point. The floors are not new, they've just been cleaned.


Either way, it looks terrible.


----------



## iiConTr0v3rSYx

Speaking of renovations......

I ride by Chamber street station on the J everyday to work. That place needs some TLC from the MTA. A horrid, disgusting place to look at while I’m on the train.


----------



## 2Easy

BoulderGrad said:


> That was the point. The floors are not new, they've just been cleaned.


You sure about that? Because some parts of the mezzanine and platforms appear to be new concrete. They spent about $50 million per station renovation. That’s a lot of money for cleaning and new technology signs.


----------



## IsaanUSA

Slartibartfas said:


> It is a bit depressing to see how even after such an overhaul the ceiling and the floors still look incredibly shabby and worse than what one can see in some 3rd world country systems. More depressing might only be that this is already a massive improvement to how those stations looked like before, which was actually way worse than 3rd world.


But many of the "3rd world country systems" are relatively new. The NYC system is 100 years old!
Same goes for the buses, airports, etc.


Also this would be incredibly expensive:


KillHatred said:


> MRT Corp is first in Asia to achieve BIM Level 2 accreditation
> New Straits Times


----------



## FabriFlorence

IsaanUSA said:


> But many of the "3rd world country systems" are relatively new. The NYC system is 100 years old!


It is not just an age problem. There are some metros older than NYC subway but much more beautiful.

Paris metro is a perfect example.










https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/?

I've never seen metro entrance like that in New York.


----------



## MichiganExpress

^^

Now go downstairs and see what a hellhole it really is.


----------



## Slartibartfas

IsaanUSA said:


> But many of the "3rd world country systems" are relatively new. The NYC system is 100 years old!
> Same goes for the buses, airports, etc.


Substantial parts of the Viennese network are 100 years old as well. In Budapest you even have a network that is older than the one in New York. Guess how historic stations can look like:










The biggest problem is not age. The problem is long lasting underinvestment to the extend that it is a miracle that the network is still operational at all. Sure, compensating this decade long underinvestment will be extremely expensive. But that's the choice I was talking about. Is NYC a 3rd world city that can not afford properly maintained mass transportation or is it one of the wealthiest cities in the world?

I suppose it is good news that they are now at least starting cleaning some stations at last. But those stations look like they would need a complete overhaul, not merely a clean up.


----------



## matias93

Well, in no small part, the fact that New York is so rich is a cause of the underinvestment on public transportation. 

Think as a politician: when the metro system of your city is THE shiny new toy full of tangible high technology for decades, it is only reasonable to keep funding it, as it is your only way to appear as 'bringing the development to the people'. But when entrepreneurs are building dozens of skyscrapers here each decade, the need to make an effort to show that the city is progressing is gone: you can just associate the achievements of the businesspeople with your administration and voilà, most people will believe you are doing the right thing.

The point is, in a certain minute, inequality rises too much, normal people stops feeling the effects of the new private investments on the city, and the underinvestment on the public services overcomes their resilience. On that moment, the costs of catching up with years of virtual abandonment are simply too high to be possible at the local level, and you need federal intervention to resolve the issues.

Once again, there is a key difference: most metro systems that work as they should are located on capital cities of centralised countries: Paris, London, Moscow, Madrid, Viena, Santiago, etc. Those systems are indeed propped up by the relative abandonment of public transportation on the rest of their countries; and while certainly there are reasons to do so (when 40% of the country population lives on a single city, is only logical to devote the most resources to that place), that's something entirely unfeasible on a real federal system as the US is. No amount of lobbying will make local politicians to renounce their pork to help the mayor or the governor of New York to win their next election.


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## Attus

matias93 said:


> most metro systems that work as they should are located on capital cities of centralised countries: Paris, London, Moscow, Madrid, Viena, Santiago, etc.


In many cases you're right. But there's the Saint Petersburg Metro in Russia, the network of Munich (Germany), that of Barcelona (Spain), for example. Yes, they're smaller, some of them much smaller than the New York Subway but that's true for Viena, too, which you ment. 
And there are two metro networks which are larger than that of New York, seem to work "as they should" and are not in capital cities: Shanghai and Guangzhou (both China). However, some other forum members are right: Chinese networks are quite young (the oldest one, Beijing, was opened in 1971, Shanghai and Guangzhou on the 90's, Nanjing, only slightly smaller than the New York network, in the 2000's) and are used by millions of people who can not afford having a car, build and maintained on a nation which is everything but democratic.


----------



## flapane

matias93 said:


> Once again, there is a key difference: most metro systems that work as they should are located on capital cities of centralised countries: Paris, London, Moscow, Madrid, Viena, Santiago, etc. Those systems are indeed propped up by the relative abandonment of public transportation on the rest of their countries


You've never been to France and Austria haven't you? 
Spain itself has subways in Barcelona, Valencia, Bilbao, extensive streetcar systems on the southern coast...


----------



## Slartibartfas

matias93 said:


> Once again, there is a key difference: most metro systems that work as they should are located on capital cities of centralised countries: Paris, London, Moscow, Madrid, Viena, Santiago, etc. Those systems are indeed propped up by the relative abandonment of public transportation on the rest of their countries; and while certainly there are reasons to do so (when 40% of the country population lives on a single city, is only logical to devote the most resources to that place), that's something entirely unfeasible on a real federal system as the US is. No amount of lobbying will make local politicians to renounce their pork to help the mayor or the governor of New York to win their next election.


It is true that in many of those places federal funds support the maintenance and expansion of the metro networks but there is no reason why in the US these systems should not be at least supported by state level as well, other than ideology of course. 

Germany is a federal system and has numerous cities with well designed and maintained metro or light metro networks. Austria is also a federal country but only features a single city with the size that can support a metro efficiently (its capital Vienna). The next bigger cities of Austria (Graz, Linz and Innsbruck) have well maintained tram networks with extensive additional bus service. Salzburg has omnibuses and buses. All of them feature an S-Bahn network connecting the cities with the surrounding communities. 

Things could be always better but I really don't see how PT outside of the capitals is neglected there.


----------



## suburbicide

I think think the renovations look fine. Certainly better than Chinese metros, which tend to be rather bland and boring.


----------



## IsaanUSA

Slartibartfas said:


> Substantial parts of the Viennese network are 100 years old as well. In Budapest you even have a network that is older than the one in New York. Guess how historic stations can look like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The biggest problem is not age. The problem is long lasting underinvestment to the extend that it is a miracle that the network is still operational at all. Sure, compensating this decade long underinvestment will be extremely expensive. But that's the choice I was talking about. Is NYC a 3rd world city that can not afford properly maintained mass transportation or is it one of the wealthiest cities in the world?


I think that looks worse than the renovated NYC stations and basically the same as the NYC stations, just with paint covering the concrete and warmer yellow lights.


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## Slartibartfas

^^ Are you trolling? You must be. 

Above station has clean and impeccable painted ceiling with a nice looking modern lightening concept. The walls and wooden elements are also well maintained. Regarding the floor I have to say I am not quite so sure if it is original or what material exactly it is, but it is also clean and well maintained. 

Compare that with previous pictures of rough, and lazily maintained concrete floor and ceiling. I mean just take this picture: https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4889/44579037080_0e8b7f2192_b.jpg They rammed the sign into the platform and did not even consider it necessary to at least flatten the new concrete around the beams. It is barely possible to envision any sloppier adaptation.

On the same pictures, the tiled walls of the "cleaned" station are looking fairly dirty even after the cleaning. And you say that looks more attractive than the above station from the Budapest network?


----------



## JMBasquiat

Slartibartfas said:


> It is a bit depressing to see how even after such an overhaul the ceiling and the floors still look incredibly shabby and worse than what one can see in some 3rd world country systems. More depressing might only be that this is already a massive improvement to how those stations looked like before, which was actually way worse than 3rd world.


Holy hyperbole. 

Neither the ceiling nor the floors look any worse than in any other country with as old a train system as NYC. 3rd world countries? Maybe update your terminology bud, that's kinda old-school. Which developing country has as extensive a public subway sector as NYC does? In which developing country is it as used, per capita, as it is in NYC? In fact, in which developed country is it as extensive and as used as it is in NYC? 

In fact, these renovated stations look quite nice and modern. They're not technological marvels but they don't need to be. They're train stations, not Apple stores.



> nice looking modern lightening concept


Is this part of some stand up piece that we don't know about?

That station looks old, depressing, and in no way "impeccable". As for "modern lighting concept" - LOL.


----------



## IsaanUSA

Slartibartfas said:


> Are you trolling? You must be.


No. I'm sharing my opinion, just like you are.


----------



## Slartibartfas

Well, this is escalating a bit and honestly going nowhere. My talk about "3rd world" was of course as anachronistic as it was provocative. I stand however to my opinion that the concrete floor looks poor, especially with the extremely sloppy handling of the floor adaptations around the new signs and seatings. Seeing the likes I am also not alone with that opinion.

To be clear, I am not just hating the refurbished or cleaned stations. Actually the new furniture, signs and also many of the walls with nice mosaics do look very neat. It is merely that the ugly and sloppy treatment of the floors in the above pictures takes away a lot from the ambience. I would also prefer to see the top concrete slabs to be painted at least, if not covered, but there I am ready to see that as a matter of personal peference. I do not buy it that this is like it has to be as stations are old. It does not. Also the inherent dirty look even of the cleaned concrete floor is something that detracts quite a bit from the otherwise nice looks. This could be done better even if it is only a proper cleaning. Concrete can be sandblasted or grinded etc, removing ingrained stains and dirt.


----------



## mensolú

Slartibartfas said:


> Substantial parts of the Viennese network are 100 years old as well. In Budapest you even have a network that is older than the one in New York.


In Budapest you have _a single line_ that is older than the NYC subway, not an entire network. And a very short one, at that.


----------



## mrsmartman

FabriFlorence said:


> It is not just an age problem. There are some metros older than NYC subway but much more beautiful.
> 
> Paris metro is a perfect example.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/?
> 
> I've never seen metro entrance like that in New York.












A photo of the City Hall kiosk on the north side of the drive (see the diagram above) is an excellent study of these structures that once covered all the IRT station entrances. City Hall itself is at right. The sign on the glass says UP TOWN under the larger ENTRANCE.

Board of Rapid Transit Railroad Commissioners. From their Report. . . _for the year ending December 31, 1903_, New York: the Commission, 1904.

Source: Joseph Brennan

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## lawdefender

NYC metro is too old and too expensive to be renovated into the modern metro system.

The only way is to do some cosmetic decoration and renovation which is suitable for financial budget.

At least, it looks better than before.


----------



## lawdefender

The following is the standard of modern metro system and stations should be in Chinese city (a developing country)

After the opening of the new line on December 28, 2018, the mileage of the Guangzhou Metro will reach 454.76 km, ranking third in the world after Shanghai(717 km) and Beijing(627 km).

Guangzhou Metro system new lines setting a new high standard of facilities in the world:

1. Central Air conditioned system installed in all underground stations and all metro trains, metro stations above the ground built with air-conditioned waiting rooms.
2. Platform screen doors system installed in all stations
3. Public toilets and nursery rooms built inside all stations
4. Self help service center, automatic ticket machines, electronic and smartphones payment systems installed in all stations
5. LCD display panels showing train, metro information and TV news installed in all stations
6. Escalators and lifts installed in all stations
7. Free WiFi full coverage in all Metro stations and all trains
8. Electric display panels installed in all the trains showing stops and trains information.
9. X-ray security inspection devices installed in all metro stations to deal with different stages of security emergency. 
10. Guangzhou Metro Line 14 is the world's first subway to use 5G technology to realize real-time monitoring of 30-channel HD video inside the metro trains. 



















Nursery Room in Guangzhou metro stations










Guangzhou metro Line 14 stations above the ground built with air-conditioned waiting rooms.










X-ray security inspection devices installed in all metro stations to deal with different stages of security emergency. 











Guangzhou Metro Line 14 is the world's first subway to use 5G technology to realize real-time monitoring of 30-channel HD video inside the metro trains. 



















Guangzhou Metro supports smartphone payment systems, including Apple Pay.


----------



## Nexis

*ᴴᴰ R142a 6 Train via 4 Line Announcements - To New Lots Ave*


----------



## Woonsocket54

Woonsocket54 said:


> We may see a few more reopenings this month. 174-175 Sts station on the "B"/"D" trains in the Bronx is still listed as reopening Dec 2018 (http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/StationInfo_174-175st/index.htm). Outbound 104 St on the "J" train in Queens is still listed as reopening "Fall 2018" (http://web.mta.info/nyct/service/plannedWork_JamaicaCenter_skip104_121st.htm)


I posted the above in December 2018.

Outbound platform at the 104 St station on the "J" train reopened 2018.12.21, but the MTA did not publish any photos of the reopened platform.

174-175 Sts station in the Bronx reopened 2018.12.26 following four-and-a-half months of renovations. The MTA published the following photos.

Reopening of 174-175 Sts on the B, D lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 174-175 Sts on the B, D lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 174-175 Sts on the B, D lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 174-175 Sts on the B, D lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 174-175 Sts on the B, D lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 174-175 Sts on the B, D lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 174-175 Sts on the B, D lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr









https://twitter.com/MTAArtsDesign/status/1078421328569556994









https://twitter.com/MTAArtsDesign/status/1078421328569556994









https://twitter.com/MTAArtsDesign/status/1078421328569556994









https://twitter.com/MTAArtsDesign/status/1078421328569556994

Next stations to close for renovations:

2019.01.05 - 168 St station on the "1" train in Manhattan (the "A" and "C" platforms at this station complex will remain open) - this deep-tube station will close for a year for purposes of elevator replacement as well as necessary structural upgrades to the elevator shafts and stairways
2019.01.14 - 111 St station on the "J" train in Queens - this dilapidated station is 101 years old and will close for six months due to deteriorated platform girders

Here is the current situation at the decrepit 111 St station on the "J":









http://www.mta.info/press-release/n...tural-repairs-scheduled-111-st-station-j-line









http://www.mta.info/press-release/n...tural-repairs-scheduled-111-st-station-j-line


----------



## luacstjh98

I understand there are 4 lifts at 168 St (and 181 St which will close in 2021) - is it not possible to work on only 2 lifts at a time, so that the station can be kept open?


----------



## Nexis

luacstjh98 said:


> I understand there are 4 lifts at 168 St (and 181 St which will close in 2021) - is it not possible to work on only 2 lifts at a time, so that the station can be kept open?


They cited dangerous overcrowding for closing the station.


----------



## GojiMet86

The complete incompetence by this fool...


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/03/nyregion/l-train-shutdown.html




> *Full Shutdown of L Train to Be Halted by Cuomo*
> 
> By Emma G. Fitzsimmons and Shane Goldmacher
> Jan. 3, 2019
> 
> 
> Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo announced on Thursday that the L train subway tunnel would not fully shut down in April as planned in what would have been one of the biggest transit disruptions in New York City’s recent history.
> 
> The L train shutdown was scheduled to begin April 27 and last 15 months, crippling a key piece of the city’s transportation network. The Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which operates the subway, had said the closing was necessary to repair damage from Hurricane Sandy in 2012, when the tunnel between Manhattan and Brooklyn was inundated by floodwaters.
> 
> Under a new plan unveiled by Mr. Cuomo the work would be done on nights and weekends. He said not fulling closing the L train would be a “phenomenal benefit to the people of New York City.’’
> 
> It was not yet clear what alternatives the M.T.A. would choose. The authority, for example, could choose to do the work on nights and weekends.
> 
> For months, subway officials have been preparing for the closing and planning alternate routes for commuters to reach Manhattan, which have included a significant expansion of bus service and adding bike lanes. When the shutdown was announced in 2016, the news prompted panic in Brooklyn over what it meant for real estate and local businesses to be choked off from Manhattan.
> 
> Last month, Mr. Cuomo, who controls the subway, toured the L train tunnel with engineering experts to see if there was another way to undertake the repair work.
> 
> “If there’s a better way of doing it, they tell us there’s a better way of doing it,” Mr. Cuomo said at the time. “If there’s not a better way of doing it, they say that’s the best that it can be done.”
> 
> The transit agency initially said the shutdown would be 18 months and later shortened it to 15 months. Subway officials had considered two proposals — a shorter, full closing of the tunnel or a partial three-year shutdown that would have allowed some trains to continue running.
> 
> They chose the full closure in an effort to do it quickly and limit the inconvenience for riders.


----------



## MrAronymous

Oh jesus. This will be a disaster.


----------



## GojiMet86

A little update, same article:





> ...On Thursday, though, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo announced an unexpected reprieve, saying that engineers would use a new technology from Europe to fix the tunnel without having to close it entirely.
> 
> The original plan would have shut the whole tunnel, starting on April 27, to repair damage from Hurricane Sandy’s floodwaters. Mr. Cuomo’s new plan could take about the same amount of time, but would keep full train service during weekdays and close one of the tunnel’s two tubes on nights and weekends...



Nice. So instead of doing this three years ago, he does it 4 months before, undoing the various work the MTA, DOT, and the various community boards did. All that time and money wasted.


----------



## luacstjh98

I was reading through the proposal, and the only thing I can think of is, where the hell were these guys in 2016?


----------



## Woonsocket54

2019.01.02 - inbound "1" train service was restored at 238 St station in The Bronx










http://travel.mtanyct.info/servicea...tag=ALL&date=1/3/2019&time=&method=getstatus4

This platform was closed beginning 2018.09.04 for purposes of stairway replacement.


----------



## urbanflight

GojiMet86 said:


> The complete incompetence by this fool...


Get rid of that guy already please hno:


----------



## Dahupegu

That's the worst decision ever! At least I think most people were mentally ready to endure the closing of the L line, and now they switch plans like nothing? That's the main issue with the subway, the lack of continuity in plans. Shut down the goddamn thing and fix it as fast as you can, rebuild everything, fix the tracks, update again the signal system, add elevators to each station... But now it's going to take what? 10 years? doing a mediocre fix as slow as they can at double the budget? Come on... 

I fear the day the subway will finally collapse under its very own weight... it's not going to be fun. Sometimes I wonder if it would be easier to build a completely new line under an existing one.


----------



## [atomic]

Hold on a second, the whole issue is just around the bench wall which houses all the important Cables encased in concrete being old and damaged? 
from the NYT Article linked above:


> Mr. Cuomo said that the L train tunnel was structurally sound, but that salt water from the storm damaged its bench walls, which house important power cables.


And now they found out that one can just put all this stuff up on the side?


> Instead of replacing the bench walls as originally envisioned, workers will use a “racking system” to mount the cables, covered in a fireproof material, to the tunnel wall. This system is used in London, Hong Kong and Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, Mr. Cuomo said.


Google "_anyCity_ Metro Tunnel"

love this quote from The Verge:


> The governor said he consulted with Elon Musk’s Tesla, as well as other “out-of-the-box” experts, in his effort to come up with a plan to avert the shutdown.


What am I missing here? Every Metro system does this, even nyc.


----------



## luacstjh98

If the tunnel wasn't structurally sound, we wouldn't have had L service for the past 7 years, I guess that's the thinking. There's definitely something that can be done with shotcrete.

What I've noticed was that the MTA were, for some reason, deeply interested in a 1 for 1 replacement of the duct bank structure. Did the design engineers simply not know any better, or was there some graft at work to artificially inflate the work scope and land some more money into the contractors' pockets?

And even if the original work went ahead, how confident were they that a repeat of Sandy, now more likely thanks to climate change, would not hit the 14th St tunnels at hard as it did the first time? And even that, would the repairs hold?


----------



## Slartibartfas

I would worry about damage that they are not aware of. Sometimes the real amount of damage only becomes visible when actual renovation work is already commenced.

If the damage is really just those duct walls I don't think it is much of an issue and the replacement with open cable management sounds reasonable, if the tunnel wall itself however could be damaged below the duct walls it might be a different thing.


----------



## rheintram

Shut the damn thing down and renovate it properly. The real reason why they are now not doing it right is probably due to some real estate tycoons pressuring Cuomo, because they need that subway access for some extra $$ on their new projects...


----------



## Woonsocket54

*167th Street station in the Bronx - reopened following four-and-a-half months of renovations on 2019.01.09*

Reopening of 167 St on the B, D lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 167 St on the B, D lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 167 St on the B, D lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 167 St on the B, D lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 167 St on the B, D lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 167 St on the B, D lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 167 St on the B, D lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Reopening of 167 St on the B, D lines by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


----------



## Woonsocket54

*28th Street station on the 6 in Manhattan - reopened following six months of renovations on 2019.01.14*









https://twitter.com/kashmirimama/status/1084932663855718405









https://twitter.com/kashmirimama/status/1084932663855718405









https://twitter.com/kashmirimama/status/1084932663855718405









https://twitter.com/kashmirimama/status/1084932663855718405









https://twitter.com/MTAArtsDesign/status/1085263717988749313









https://twitter.com/MTAArtsDesign/status/1085263717988749313









https://twitter.com/MTAArtsDesign/status/1085263717988749313









https://twitter.com/MTAArtsDesign/status/1085263717988749313









https://twitter.com/HeyNell/status/1085161453060005888

A misplaced column?









https://twitter.com/Mike_Peters/status/1085330631310147584









https://twitter.com/ferris/status/1084956370963709953









https://twitter.com/mattvarchar/status/1084941981447536644


----------



## GojiMet86

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mta-bo...ltants-about-revised-l-train-plan-11547597338



> *MTA Board Members Grill Consultants About Revised L Train Plan
> Concerns raised about the new plan’s longevity and safety
> *
> By Katie Honan and Paul Berger
> Jan. 15, 2019 7:08 p.m. ET
> 
> 
> Metropolitan Transportation Authority board members on Tuesday peppered contractors and engineers working on the L train subway tunnel project with questions about last-minute changes that took riders, the city, and many board members by surprise.
> 
> The questions came during an emergency meeting that MTA Acting Chairman Fernando Ferrer called for board members to learn more about the new plan that averts a complete 15-month shutdown of the L train tunnel between Brooklyn and Manhattan.
> 
> Board members asked why the same consultants who advised on the original shutdown plan were now advising on the alternate plan. They also raised concerns about the alternative construction plan’s longevity and safety. Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced the new plan in early January.
> 
> Polly Trottenberg, the city’s transportation commissioner and an MTA board member appointed by Mayor Bill de Blasio, raised concerns Tuesday about the silica dust that could accumulate during the demolition of concrete in the tunnel.
> 
> “When the MTA first came to the city about this project, wanting to close the tunnel down entirely, one of the big reasons they gave was the silica,” she said...
> 
> 
> ...Jerry Jannetti, a senior vice president of engineering consultant WSP, told board members that the alternative plan wasn’t a short-term fix.
> 
> “It’s not the objective of this project or this team to leave something in place that will have to be repaired in a short period of time,” Mr. Jannetti said...
> 
> 
> ...Andy Byford, the president of New York City Transit, supported the alternative plan when it was announced. But he said at the time that he wanted to hire an independent consultant to vet it.
> 
> Instead, Mr. Ferrer said he and the board would supervise the hiring of an independent consultant who would vet the plan and oversee operational and safety procedures...


----------



## GojiMet86

*The NYTM R1/R9 vintage train*

These were taken the last Sunday of 2018.

As you can also see, the former 39th Avenue-Beebe Avenue station will now be called 39th Avenue-Dutch Kills. The local Dutch Kills Civic Association has been asking for this new name for some years now. And before anyone wants to "blame" a group, this isn't a hipster or millenial-related thing. 




IMG_3690 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3798 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3795 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3792 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3788 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3774 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3764 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3757 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3750 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3748 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3744 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3739 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3735 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3732 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3723 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3713 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3705 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3697 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3692 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## GojiMet86

*R262 (replacement for R62/R62A)*

We now have some word on a replacement for the R62 and R62A. It will be called the R262.

From the Capital Program Oversight Committee Meeting of January 2019, page 25:

http://web.mta.info/mta/news/books/...pIWFDJUvSI5OJOTL3tkcMTfYlLmIOMQfqySDrQf-5WFVs





> *SCOPE*
> Purchase of approximately 1,500 ‘A’ Division Subway Cars
> • Replacement of 1,139 R62 and R62A fleet, plus fleet expansion
> • CBTC-equipped trains to support overall acceleration of CBTC
> • Car design utilizing the latest R211 Technical Specification requirements as
> a baseline, including open gangway
> • Full Ethernet network
> 
> *SCHEDULE*
> Proposed Contract Award: Future Capital Program


----------



## Mascabrother

sergiogiorgini said:


> The color-coded lamp posts are an idiotic artifact of some long-faded idea... How is a tourist supposed to make sense of that when even New Yorkers don't know what the colors mean? I like the new totems, and hope they'll be consistently rolled out all over the system. But this is the MTA, so who knows.


What kind of opinion is that? On a day with terrible weather or in a rush there is nothing like seeing the lamps in the distance and realize where the station is.

It is assumed that the green lamps mean the entrance of the subway and the red ones means that it is only an exit (some are no longer just exits).


----------



## MrAronymous

> _The original system was created in the 1980’s, when the token was still used as fare, and employed a traffic light color scheme of green, yellow, and red. The different colored globes were meant to convey to travelers whether a specific subway entrance was open 24/7 with a token booth, open with a part-time token booth, or closed all the time with no booth (serving only as an exit point). The system seemed to be consistently mired in confusion, particularly when the yellow orbs were phased out and replaced by red globes in an attempt to simplify them. The introduction of the MetroCard in 1994 further complicated the meaning of the lights, as previously red-globe “Exit Only” stations were equipped with full-body entrance-and-exit turnstiles. It is also common now to see subway stations with signs specifying them as “No Entry” or “Exit Only” in addition to a red or half red globe._


So as Sergiogiorgini said, it's archaich and no longer serves any useful purpose. Especially not if it actively confuses people (see example at the top of this page). It's OK if they keep existing, but are hardly necessary (I'd argue the opposite) for renovated stations. Remember that there's a cost involved for maintaining these. Much clearer than some obscure red or green lamp would be an actual subway logo or wordmark.


----------



## Alargule

My dear fellow Dutchmen: please do not try to reason with New Yorkers about the idiosyncrasies regarding their city. Whereas all other cities in the world boasting some kind of underground, subway or metro system use some sort of standardized logo to point people to the system, New York is Different.

I'd even argue that just red or green lamps aren't enough. There should also be blue lamps (denoting local-only stations), orange lamps (denoting entrances leading to trains that go to Brooklyn), purple lamps (denoting stations that have a different service pattern during weekends as opposed to weekdays), flickering lamps (denoting that the next train will arrive in 30 mins) and brown lamps (...go figure that one out for yourself).


----------



## sergiogiorgini

Well, the MTA seems to agree that something was needed.

The NY Subway "logo" or symbol is really just the word Subway in Helvetica on black, which is frankly fine in a city where 98% of underground trains will be part of the Subway system. The new totem is eye-catching and recognizable, and even references the green lamp posts in a clever way.

But they could give up after 9 stations and have it go the same way as that previous attempt at a Subway logo: the M in a circle. We'll see.


----------



## 00Zy99

The M was for the MTA as a whole and is still in use (on the website and documents), I believe.


----------



## sergiogiorgini

Well it was used to denote the system itself. I see it wasn't always in a circle.


----------



## GojiMet86

*Broadway and 39th Avenue-Dutch Kills*

I went yesterday in the freezing cold to take a look at the newly reopened stations on the Astoria line.













IMG_4094 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4095 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4096 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4097 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4098 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4099 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4100 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4101 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4102 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4105 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4106 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4108 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4127 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4131 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4132 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4133 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4134 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4136 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4137 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4139 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4141 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4142 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4143 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4146 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4149 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4153 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4155 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## Woonsocket54

GojiMet86 said:


> IMG_4127 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


The rapid residential growth in Long Island City and Astoria is extending right to the edge of the tracks. If it weren't for the MTA train, one might think this is in Chicago.


----------



## Miami High Rise

When does 2018 ridership be known? 
Does the decline continue?


----------



## Mascabrother

*Clean, On Time and Rat-Free: 9 International Transit Systems With Lessons for New York*

What smells like a “nightclub toilet,” evokes the feeling of “an underworld” and resembles a “working museum”?

That would be the New York City subway, according to international readers who have experienced it.

The subway runs around the clock and carries millions daily across a sprawling network. But when we asked riders of public transit around the world how their systems compare, New York’s scored worse than most on several measures.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/11/reader-center/international-public-transit-new-york-subway.html


----------



## theunknownumeda

Guys, I've been taking a look on the NY subway recently, and my first question is, do any line in the system use the CBTC?


----------



## Miami High Rise

Very few if any and progress much slower than I thought. I thought the 7 line had it running pre-Hudson Yards. 

Is even the L using it amid all it's issues?


----------



## streetscapeer

the L and the 7 use it


----------



## The Polwoman

Mascabrother said:


> *Clean, On Time and Rat-Free: 9 International Transit Systems With Lessons for New York*
> 
> What smells like a “nightclub toilet,” evokes the feeling of “an underworld” and resembles a “working museum”?
> 
> That would be the New York City subway, according to international readers who have experienced it.
> 
> The subway runs around the clock and carries millions daily across a sprawling network. But when we asked riders of public transit around the world how their systems compare, New York’s scored worse than most on several measures.
> 
> Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/11/reader-center/international-public-transit-new-york-subway.html



I read the article but I have some points of criticism on it:


London's underground is rather old and dirty, not necessarily with rats, but many lines are slow and have frequent delays. Many stations are not accessible with a handicap. But if they are, there's an icon on the map which makes that good.



You may not need to go through some gates in Berlin but they have archaic types of cards which also uses stamps and if you forget these stamps your holiday in Berlin may end in horror.


Amsterdam the summit of investment? Don't make me laugh! The metro was constructed no earlier than the 1970s and yes we have trams but if you want to go by tram from A to B the speed is tedious. Metro construction was halted during the 1980s after protests and only by now there finally seems to become something of an actual network. These stations on the Noord-Zuidlijn (52) are beautiful. But the city is cutting in trams and buses hurting accessibility. And while there are huge construction plans for housing 100.000 people in ~5 square km, there is no solid plan for a tram or metro yet, and it will take time to construct these as well so prepare for traffic disaster in 2040. Besides that, many viable plans are leftset as being not-viable by the most greedy review systems (kosten-batenanalyse, keep away that word 'maatschappelijk' because it isn't always that beneficial to society), yes, Amsterdam is just as short-sighted today as is the USA. We only took our late-20th century momentum. And it's not that long ago that the old metro stations were not just hideous, but were the breeding place of rats and criminality too.


----------



## saiho

Mascabrother said:


> *Clean, On Time and Rat-Free: 9 International Transit Systems With Lessons for New York*
> 
> Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/11/reader-center/international-public-transit-new-york-subway.html


I would criticize "The trains are extremely long" comment on the London tube comparison. The subsurface and deep tube trains are tiny compared to the A and B division trains of the NY Subway. Also he didn't mention that the Tube is extremely expensive.

In addition, the Istanbul comparison says something about the Istanbul metro + commuter rail will grow from 169 km (105 mi), which I don't even think that initial number is correct, to over 1000 km (680 mi) by 2030. I don't know where that goal came from but I doubt they will be opening over 800 km of new rail lines in the next ten years. 

There are many valid criticisms for the NY Subway but if you are going to report on it, the comments should at least be informed, factual and valid.


----------



## matias93

Well, that's what you get when doing an article based entirely on online commentaries instead of journalistic research...


----------



## Woonsocket54

About a week ago, the 7th Avenue exit of the 8th Avenue "N" station in Sunset Park, Brooklyn reopened.









https://bklyner.com/briefly-noted-n...bike-lanes-el-chapo-diversity-and-more-links/


----------



## lawdefender

It's unclear exactly how much the MTA spent on upgrades at the 39th Avenue station. The MTA did not respond to a request for comment, but a contract awarded for the renovations in 2017 allocated $150 million for work at 30th Avenue, 36th Avenue, Broadway and 39th Avenue.

http://gothamist.com/2019/02/06/astoria_subway_elevator.php

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Broadway and 39th Avenue station might be cost to USD 50 million more or less.

That kind of cosmetic renovation is too expensive, I think.


----------



## urbanflight

I truly believe there is a conflict of interests and corruption in this cases...

The MTA & NY state are an incredible mess. 

*MTA Hires $300M Consultants But Opts for Free L Train Advice*








> Two consultants who played key roles in planning for the L train tunnel shutdown have scored hundreds of millions of dollars in lucrative MTA contracts, an I-Team investigation has found.
> 
> But just because the MTA is paying big bucks for expert advice doesn’t mean the transit agency is taking it.


----------



## LTA1992

The MetroCard replacement shall be called:

OMNY: One Metro New York is what it means and doubles as a play on "Omni" as the five boroughs are one city.

https://new.mta.info/omny


----------



## PeFe

I liked the Metrocard name.....yes even though I am on the other side of the planet I think a rename was "unnecessary". Smart Metrocard would have worked just fine in the initial rollout.

And bizarrely yet another smart transport card starting with O (If you dont know London has Oyster and Sydney has Opal ) The English alphabet has 26 letters.....

And I hope "Omny" indeed is a smart card, not just for New York City, but for the new York metropolitan area, so much easier for tourists and the travelling public.


----------



## LTA1992

PeFe said:


> I liked the Metrocard name.....yes even though I am on the other side of the planet I think a rename was "unnecessary". Smart Metrocard would have worked just fine in the initial rollout.
> 
> And bizarrely yet another smart transport card starting with O (If you dont know London has Oyster and Sydney has Opal ) The English alphabet has 26 letters.....
> 
> And I hope "Omni" indeed is a smart card, not just for New York City, but for the new York metropolitan area, so much easier for tourists and the travelling public.


New card so it gets a new name. Seems quite necessary to me.


----------



## luacstjh98

PeFe said:


> And I hope "Omny" indeed is a smart card, not just for New York City, but for the new York metropolitan area, so much easier for tourists and the travelling public.


It appears that the Omny card can be used across the entire MTA network, including Metro-North, LIRR and buses.

But what about the Metro North lines operated by NJT? Or NJT themselves? Or the Airtrains and PATH?


----------



## streetscapeer

luacstjh98 said:


> It appears that the Omny card can be used across the entire MTA network, including Metro-North, LIRR and buses.
> 
> But what about the Metro North lines operated by NJT? Or NJT themselves? Or the Airtrains and PATH?


For PATH and the Airtrain to JFK, they both accept metrocard now (for Airtrain, it's the only accepted method, actually)... so I'd be very surprised if Omny wasn't also available for those two systems.


----------



## dariustolkowski

Just wonder when they gonna introduce contactless cards. Too often there are issues with the existing MetroCards since they demagnetize quite frequently. Plus this entire business of swiping.


----------



## jay stew

OMNY is going to be contactless.


----------



## dariustolkowski

It's about time. This business of pulling cards out of one's pocket is really old and counterproductive.


----------



## dariustolkowski

Any news when it's going to be implemented?


----------



## MrAronymous

Completely phased in by 2023.


----------



## PeFe

dariustolkowski said:


> It's about time. This business of pulling cards out of one's pocket is really old and counterproductive.


You still might need to...my experience with smart transport cards is they work fine....as long as they are not next to any other NFC enabled cards.

So if your wallet has no "competing" cards then you just point the wallet towards the reader otherwise the card will have to separated from competing "contactless" signals.


----------



## LTA1992

dariustolkowski said:


> Just wonder when they gonna introduce contactless cards. Too often there are issues with the existing MetroCards since they demagnetize quite frequently. Plus this entire business of swiping.


The actual OMNY cards are supposed to arrive in 2020 or 21. But if you have a contactless debit card (chip plus contactless logo), then you are already ready.

The banks should have been sending them out for a while.

In my opinion, OMNY should be the sole card for the metro region. Eventually, they should make it possible to use OMNY for normal purchases. The MTA could make money off this brand.


----------



## dariustolkowski

I hope the MTA will introduce the option of "looking up" your card online in terms of balance, expiration date etc. It's kind of weird to go back to subway station for that. At the end, customers will save time and the MTA will save on MetroCard machines.


----------



## Zaz965

Coney Island–Stillwell Avenue (New York City Subway) by Rick, no Flickr


----------



## N830MH

dariustolkowski said:


> I hope the MTA will introduce the option of "looking up" your card online in terms of balance, expiration date etc. It's kind of weird to go back to subway station for that. At the end, customers will save time and the MTA will save on MetroCard machines.


Yes, I doubt that. They will phase out MTA machines. You can used your iPhone or Antroid or you can purchase MTA online.


----------



## PeFe

dariustolkowski said:


> I hope the MTA will introduce the option of "looking up" your card online in terms of balance, expiration date etc. It's kind of weird to go back to subway station for that. At the end, customers will save time and the MTA will save on MetroCard machines.


The way this works elsewhere (and I see no reason why New York would alter a successful formula) is that to see the card "online" you must register it.

Each smart transport card has a unique identification number, and this used to set an account with the transport provider.

You register your card, enabling you to check travel history (making sure the correct fare has been charged) and if the website is enabled, top up the card manually or link it to a credit card, which automatically tops up when the balance is low....(I have a credit card linked Sydney Opal Card, last time I bought an individual train ticket was 2012...and I have no car)

The card "readers" or "validators" at the train stations (or on the bus) should give you a balance each time the card is used so monitoring the amount of money on the card should be simple.

If my credit card linked Opal Card is lost or stolen I can immediately cancel that card online protecting the balance, my "stolen" Opal Card will not open the gates at train stations and be "flagged" as stolen.
I can also transfer the balance to another card that becomes my main card.

Expiry dates.....some smart transport cards have no expiry dates, others 4 -10 years.....it will just depend on how the MTA set it up.

Some people object to being tracked electronically and don't want a credit card linked to their transport card so usually there will be a pay-as-you go option.....you must manually add money yourself but if the card is lost..so is the money.

And as each card has a unique electronic number the history of that card stays in the system (enabling police to check where the card has been used..London police use this investigative method quite a lot)

And a interesting fallout from the implementation of Sydney's Opal Card is the total loss of "ticket sellers". The ticket windows at all train stations have been closed replaced by TVMs (Ticket Vending Machines)
And some of those ticket offices are now cafes and sandwich shops.....

The unions were promised "no job losses" so now staff at major train stations either monitor the ticket gates, help the public use the ticket machines, or clean the station (The train stations now look cleaner than ever, the staff want to keep their jobs so they clean and clean and clean....)

And just a final note, Andy Byford (MTA boss) used to work for the London Underground and Sydney Trains....so he knows a lot about smart transport cards.


----------



## streetscapeer

^^Pretty much everything you just mentioned is already available for the current Metrocard, I believe.

Except for being able to top up the card on the internet after registering it.. but even for that, there is the EasyPayXpress Metrocard that many people have.


----------



## The Polwoman

dariustolkowski said:


> I hope the MTA will introduce the option of "looking up" your card online in terms of balance, expiration date etc. It's kind of weird to go back to subway station for that. At the end, customers will save time and the MTA will save on MetroCard machines.



Like in other cities and even countries, you should be able to look up which trips you have made (easy for keeping the financial administration but also the hobby for fanatics how many stations they traveled), and if not, the MTA should be able to do so, it is very easy to track these cards. With our nationwide system we cannot easily top up our balance at home and not even at all stops (buses, at train stations we always can), I hope that mistake is not repeated in NYC, just as is the mistake of asking $9 (€7.50) for these cards even for expiration date replacement. And keep the system waterproof: some PT authorities in our country are disloyal to the system having introduced nerve-breaking "smart mobility systems" which in fact means a glorified taxi which will cost you a ton of money for even the shortest distances, partially because the regular transportation cards aren't valid where they should be. Imagine an uber with the price but without the speed and comfort, by the MTA, that replaces your bus, the horror :bash:



But I think there should be machines anyways, at least at strategic posts, for outsiders (especially since not every tourist can easily access their bank overseas), where they can give necessary details and so can buy tourist versions of the card, and that's not just JFK (it's for any airport, commuter train station, transfer to other systems and P+R location, although imho they should indeed introduce such cards as wide as possible).


----------



## Nexis

*R143 - Original Brown M Shuttle Train Announcements (Myrtle Av to Metropolitan round trip) *

Another throwback video to the times when the R143s ran on the M line shuttle between Myrtle Av Broadway and Metropolitan Avenue. The R143s had a slightly different announcement program compared to the R160s that ran on the M shuttle.

Original Brown M Shuttle train announcements from Myrtle Avenue / Broadway in Brooklyn to Middle village - Metropolitan Avenue in Queens via the Myrtle Avenue Line.


These audio clips were sent to me to be restored and were originally recorded sometime pre 2007.






*Original 2006 R160 A Local Train Announcements - From 30 Day Acceptance Test - to Far Rockaway *

A special upload taking you back to 2005/2006 when the R160s are brand new, here are the original automated announcements from the 30 day acceptance testing on the A line , Bound for Far Rockaway Mott Avenue.
As a bonus i also added the weekday / weekend / night / rush hour transfers at the appropriate stops. 

Original transfers recorded between August and October of 2006 during the revenue acceptance testing and merged with higher quality audio that was recorded at various times from 2014 to 2019.






*Original 2001 - R143 L Train Announcements to Canarsie / Rockaway Parkway *

A special upload this time, here are the original automated announcements recorded from a R143 L train circa 2001 - 2002. I put some effort into levling out and reducing the distortion on some of the audio clips and making one uniform audio file, let me know how i did.

From 8 Avenue in Mahattan to Canarsie - Rockaway Parkway in Brooklyn via 14 Street Local.

Some notable differences from today's (2019) version:

All transfers done by Charlie Pellet , a different "Next stop" and "this is" announcement, the "Next and last stop is" announcement hasnt been added, some defunct routes are announced and the lack of any Select Bus service routes.






*R142 4 Train via 2 Line Announcements - To Nereid Avenue / 238 Street *

Here are the automated announcements for a rerouted number 4 train being sent up to Nereid Avenue - 238 Street via the White Plains Road Line (2 / 5 lines)

From Crown Heights - Utica Avenue in Brooklyn to Nereid Avenue in the Bronx via Eastern Parkway Express / Lexington Avenue Express / White Plains - Bronx Express .

Announcements recorded in 2014 and 2019.


----------



## Mascabrother

*Transit Costs Are Going Up. (But Don’t Expect Better Service.)*

The math: The pay-per-ride MetroCard costs are increasing because the M.T.A. board voted to eliminate the bonus you get when purchasing several rides at once. (This chart from the M.T.A. has details about the bonuses being abolished.)

Subway and bus prices:

The price for unlimited rides on the following MetroCards will change beginning April 21.

• 7-day MetroCards: $33, up from $32

• 30-day MetroCards: $127, up from $121

Bridge and tunnel prices:

For cars, tolls will increase on March 31.

For example, here is how fees will rise on the Verrazzano-Narrows Bridge (where tolls are collected only when entering Staten Island):

• E-ZPass toll: $12.24, up from $11.52

• Toll by mail: $19, up from $17

Commuter rail prices

Fares on the Long Island Rail Road and Metro-North are increasing.

• Here is a list of new L.I.R.R. fares.

• Here are the new fares for Metro-North’s Harlem, Hudson and New Haven lines.

There was some good news for commuters. In May, the M.T.A. will introduce technology that could make “swiping” into the subways and buses faster.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1099083501947838464


----------



## urbanflight

Congestion pricing finally seems to be moving forward.

*Boost for Congestion Pricing in Manhattan as de Blasio Supports Cuomo Plan*








> Mayor Bill de Blasio threw his support behind congestion pricing on Tuesday as the best option to raise money for New York City’s failing subway, announcing an unusual alliance with Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo, his frequent rival, to fix the system.
> 
> Their joining forces could give congestion pricing momentum as state lawmakers debate whether to embrace Mr. Cuomo’s proposal to toll cars entering the busiest parts of Manhattan. The idea has long faced difficult odds in Albany, and a proposal by former Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg was defeated a decade ago.
> 
> But with the subway in crisis and the streets of Manhattan choked by traffic, Mr. Cuomo has argued that the proposal is the best option for raising billions of dollars and reducing congestion. For months, Mr. de Blasio had resisted endorsing congestion pricing and instead favored a tax on wealthy New Yorkers.
> 
> “This crisis runs deeper than ever before,” the mayor said in a statement, “and it’s now clear there is no way to address it without congestion pricing and other dedicated revenue streams.”
> 
> (...)


PS: They should also rise taxes on the wealthy to finance public transit.


----------



## dariustolkowski

Rising taxes on the wealthy seems like a great idea at first glance, but it always gonna backfire, since this group has historically shown that they possess enough resources to legally challenge any significant changes to tax laws. Plus the wealthy might (I am not saying here that they necessarily will) say here that they are the least likely group to use the public transportation in the first place. Still, it’s worthwhile to try.


----------



## Woonsocket54

> MTA New York City Transit reopened two station entrances at the Metropolitan Av-Lorimer St station complex on Thursday, February 28, 2019. They are part of a capacity improvement project at the station complex that included reopening six platform stairs at the south end of the station, reopening two station entrances, building a new platform staircase at the north end of the station, adding a new turnstile area with new digital screens, customer Help Point intercoms and MetroCard Vending Machines, and reopening a large portion of the station mezzanine to make connections between the G and L trains much more direct.
> 
> All photos were taken by MTA New York City Transit / Marc A. Hermann


https://www.flickr.com/photos/mtaphotos/33365881338/

New station stairs, entrances reopened at Metropolitan Av-Lorimer St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

New station stairs, entrances reopened at Metropolitan Av-Lorimer St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

New station stairs, entrances reopened at Metropolitan Av-Lorimer St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

New station stairs, entrances reopened at Metropolitan Av-Lorimer St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

New station stairs, entrances reopened at Metropolitan Av-Lorimer St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


New station stairs, entrances reopened at Metropolitan Av-Lorimer St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

This photo shows one station entrance, at Powers Street, when it was closed in the 1990s. This entrance has now been reopened with refurbished stairs, railings, treads and new lighting.

New station stairs, entrances reopened at Metropolitan Av-Lorimer St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


----------



## urbanflight

*Cuomo and de Blasio issue 10-point plan to fix MTA*



> The professional relationship between New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo and New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio is contentious at best. You can read all about the feud here and here.
> 
> The organization's various entities — NYCTA, LIRR, Metro-North, MTA Capital Construction, MTA busses, Staten Island Railway — currently operate under a 1968-designed "holding company" structure. This makes coordination more difficult and expensive, Cuomo and de Blasio noted in a joint release.
> 
> Now, the two politicos are outlining their plans to fix the MTA, which has been plagued by massive cost problems, chronic subway delays, outdated technology and a feeble infrastructure.
> 
> Here's an edited breakdown of what they put forward (click here for the full version):
> 
> 
> *Consolidation*. The MTA plans streamline several functions, including construction management, legal, engineering, procurement, human resources and advertising. This restructuring plan "will be completed by June of this year."
> 
> *Congestion pricing*. The MTA Transformation Plan would include a congestion pricing financing model. Electronic tolling devices would be installed on the perimeter of the Central Business District (CBD) defined as streets south of 61st St. in Manhattan. The electronic tolling system will account for tolls previously paid by drivers entering Manhattan from designated crossings. Emergency vehicles operated by or transporting people with disabilities will be exempt. Congestion pricing revenue will be placed in a 'lockbox' to fund the capital needs of the MTA.
> 
> *Fare control*. The MTA should be able to operate with mass transit fare increases limited to inflationary increases of 2% per year.
> 
> *Board appointments*. All terms will end with the appointing elected official's tenure.
> 
> *Fare evasion*. The State will work with the MTA, City and District Attorneys to develop an enforcement strategy, with both personnel and station design modifications that do not criminalize fare evasion but instead prevent fare evasion, sanction violators and increase enforcement.
> 
> *Audit*. The MTA will undergo an an independent audit to be completed no later than January 2020 to determine financial credibility.
> 
> *Committee oversight*. Transportation, engineering and government experts — who have no existing financial relationship with the MTA — will review the toll and fare increases proposed by the MTA as necessary to fund the organization's capital plan.
> 
> *Private sector partnerships*. The MTA will hold private sector competitions on various projects under the guidance of the Deans of Cornell School of Engineering and Columbia School of Engineering. The goal is to assure state of the art design and technology is being deployed, namely when it comes to upgrading technology for safety. The MTA also pledges to be more aggressive in debarring failed contractors.
> 
> *Subway Action Plan*. The MTA will immediately expedite the completion of the Subway Action Plan including: signal repair; water management; station enhancements; rail welding; friction pad installation; increased refurbishment efforts; and other service improvements.
> 
> The Governor and Mayor pledge to work closely with the legislature" to effectuate provisions in this framework."


----------



## dariustolkowski

Too many subway stations in the entire system have just one exit/entrance access. Another issue is persistent lack of elevators and escalators in majority of stations.


----------



## jamesinclair

Interesting that the brand new entrance uses old design style, instead of the design used in the Manhattan renovations (ie, the iron gates instead of glass walls)


----------



## mike1115

I am by no means wealthy but I don't agree with policies that look for the rich to pay additional taxes for everything else. Especially at a state and local level, when the wealthy can just pack up and move.

Congestion pricing needs to happen. Uber and Lyft have done two things to make the current situation worse-they have taken ridership away, while increasing congestion. How many of Uber's are just driving around in traffic waiting for their next fare to pick up? The only problem is once you are below 61st street I assume you won't pay anything again. Either way I expect both companies to put up a significant fight against this.


----------



## Mascabrother

Congestion pricing is what the Beckys with good hair always wanted: a gated community for the ultra rich and oligarchs.


----------



## MrAronymous

Bullshit. Manhattan could do with less car dependance. Or at least less unneccessary trips so there is more space for the majority of people on the streets going with slow mode, using transit or working/delivering.


----------



## streetscapeer

Source


----------



## luacstjh98

jamesinclair said:


> Interesting that the brand new entrance uses old design style, instead of the design used in the Manhattan renovations (ie, the iron gates instead of glass walls)


It's not new per se - IIRC the MTA closed a lot of little-used entrances in the 90s, so it was just a matter of removing the boards and putting in turnstiles.


----------



## dariustolkowski

The MTA also closed quite a bit entrances back in the 80s. Some stations still need additional entrances in particular during rush hours. For example the one by Hunter College. The MTA has been talking about upgrading this station for years now.


----------



## The Polwoman

It is good news to see they finally have an action plan and re-open these entrances. Since the system is much busier than 30 years ago and, in case there is criminality, much more control possible these days (CCTV etc.), I believe these entrances will do more benefit than they did 30 years ago, when they were bad for the safety. Now get to work already :cheers:


----------



## urbanflight

*Proponents say a pied-à-terre tax could pay to repair New York City's crumbling infrastructure*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1094345713096540161


----------



## urbanflight

Mascabrother said:


> Congestion pricing is what the Beckys with good hair always wanted: a gated community for the ultra rich and oligarchs.


A "gated community for the ultra rich and oligarchs" though that is wide open by one of the biggest public mass transit in the world.

That is exactly the point, charge the rich and oligarchs and invest that money back into the public mass transit in favor of the general public, and create new transit option for communities that don't have one today.

And it isn't only about creating a chronically needed new funding for public transit but also to:

- Reduce pollution and noise.

- Increase pedestrians safety.

- Increase space for healthier mobility: walk, cycling, buses, etc.

320755483


----------



## Mascabrother

The MTA should not have more money until the agency shows how funds are used, I don't believe one single word about this plan, throwing more money won't fix the structural issue within the MTA.


----------



## Woonsocket54

Astoria Blvd station on the N and W trains will close for nine months, beginning 2019.03.17, for elevator construction and other improvements

http://www.mta.info/press-release/n...porarily-close-ada-elevator-project-mezzanine


----------



## Clery

streetscapeer said:


> Source


Those figures are interesting.
Apparently 65% of the people living in the outer boroughs don't work in Manhattan, yet the MTA subway network is nearly entirely focused in bringing people to Manhattan. The only direct connections in outer boroughs are the rather slow line G and the as much slow transfer between E, J, Z services in Jamaica Center.

Looking at this makes me wonder if NYC wouldn't need a fast *express* metro line, serving all of the outer boroughs (from the Bronx to Staten Island) with a minimal number of stations to connect the existing hubs as quick as possible one to the other. Something a bit similar to what Paris is currently building with its new Grand Paris Express network.

As a matter of fact, there's probably a need for new projects connecting NYC to NJ as well, but maybe that's too difficult I don't know.


----------



## luacstjh98

You could extend the G from Court Square, through a new Astoria subway (replacing the current el, maybe?) and then over to the Bronx where it would follow the New Haven Line and Cross Bronx Expressway, and perhaps through to the middle tracks at 168th on the A/C.

Maybe even extend it to Coney Island full time with the F.


----------



## mrsmartman

The ridership of the G Train would be higher if the IND Crosstown Line were connected to Manhattan through the IND 53rd Street Line. The following video illustrates the daily flow of commuters to and from the City of New York:


----------



## Alargule

That video is 78 years old! Do you mean to say that there have been no significant changes to that pattern? Because streetscaper's post and data seem to suggest otherwise.


----------



## mrsmartman

All those prestigious jobs are still located south of 59th Street.


----------



## dariustolkowski

Mascabrother said:


> The MTA should not have more money until the agency shows how funds are used, I don't believe one single word about this plan, throwing more money won't fix the structural issue within the MTA.


Effectively used, since they tend to use money for stuff that makes little sense.


----------



## GojiMet86

IMG_4746 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4747 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4581 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4606 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4377 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4461 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4346 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4757 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4306 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4770 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4859 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4860 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4387 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4869 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4870 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4900 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4324 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4365 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4455 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4574 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4648 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4735 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4873 by
GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4854 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## urbanflight

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1110904296432979969


----------



## Nexis

*ᴴᴰ R142 2 Express Train via Bowling Green / Wall St Announcements - To Flatbush Avenue from 241 St *


----------



## urbanflight

It's official, congestion pricing and mansion tax have been approved to fund public transit in New York! Great news for New York City :banana: :applause: :cheers: :check:

*Cuomo, legislators reach deal on state budget that includes congestion pricing and mansion tax to support MTA;*








> ALBANY -- Gov. Cuomo and the Legislature reached a deal on a $175.5 billion state budget early Sunday, after overcoming a last-minute disagreement about a campaign finance reform plan.
> 
> The bill authorizes the MTA’s congestion funding program, which will require motorists in Manhattan to pay a toll whenever they enter Manhattan south of 60th Street. The money will go toward the MTA’s capital spending program. The earliest congestion pricing will begin in Dec. 31, 2020.
> 
> The budget also calls for a mansion tax on sales of properties valued at $25 million or more that will also be dedicated to the MTA.
> 
> In a statement, Gov. Cuomo called the budget “fiscally responsible,” and said it would “protect New York from the federal government’s ongoing economic assault on our state.”
> 
> Senate Majority Leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins (D-Yonkers) called the bill “a responsible, effective, and on-time state budget.”
> 
> “This budget delivers on our promise to develop sustainable funding for the MTA and addresses critical transportation needs throughout the state,” said Assembly Speaker Carl Heastie (D-Bronx).
> 
> Lawmakers are expected to start voting on the series of bills making up the $175 billion dollar spending plan Sunday morning.
> 
> Among the other highlights in the proposed budget, which will must receive final approval by Monday:
> 
> -- Property tax increases are permanently capped at 2% per year.





> Sources: Drivers In Cars Will Pay Around $11.50 And Truck Drivers Will Pay About $25; Possible Discounts For Some Being Worked Out
> 
> NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — It has worked in cities like London and Singapore and state lawmakers are hoping congestion pricing will decrease traffic in New York City, too.
> 
> CBS2’s Hazel Sanchez found out what Sunday’s historic news means for drivers.
> 
> Big Apple subway and buses will soon be getting some much-needed improvements at the expense of drivers heading into Manhattan.
> 
> “I think it’s a good idea,” one New Yorker said Sunday. “Every day it’s very, very (bad) traffic, so I think it can be better.”
> 
> Motorists entering Midtown Manhattan below 60th Street will be charged a toll, which is anticipated to raise more than $1 billion a year for the city’s ailing public transit system. A panel of experts will set the surcharges by the end of 2020, but sources told CBS2 drivers in cars will pay around $11.50 and truck drivers around $25.
> 
> “I work in Manhattan a lot and I don’t mind paying for it to get in there and if it helps congestion, even better,” Long Island resident Ed Crescimanni said.
> 
> MORE: Gov. Cuomo Proud Of State Budget, Calling It “Probably The Strongest Progressive Statement That We’ve Made”
> 
> Congestion pricing will be an added hardship for Charles Alvarez, who lives in the toll zone but needs to visit his mother in a Queens nursing home.
> 
> “That’s crazy. I can’t imagine doing that. But I have to see my mother and it’s something that would greatly impact me,” Alvarez said.
> 
> Possible added price breaks for people like Alvarez still need to be worked out, including:
> 
> * A day pass for people who live in the congestion zone
> 
> * A hardship exemption for those earning $60,000 or less
> 
> * A disability exemption for those with handicapped license plates
> 
> * An exemption for emergency vehicles and city-owned agency cars
> 
> Traffic expert Sam Schwartz told CBS2 he thinks the system will make difference.
> 
> “The bottom line is the city is a competitive city. It is a world city. We can’t have a world city if our transit system is running 65 percent on time and our traffic is moving at 4.7 mph. This will get us back in the ball game to be a world-class city.”
> 
> It’s important to note that drivers will not be charged the toll more than once per day and the FDR and West Side highways will not be included.


----------



## Arnorian

So a billion per year for Cuomo to spend on the Upstate.


----------



## Ultramatic

And you can bet that new toll will be going up, and up, and up...


----------



## Shenkey

Great. There is no reason to own/use a personal car in the city.


----------



## Mascabrother

I bet 1,000 dollars that 80% of these new tolls will be wasted in everything except the MTA, and if it reaches the corrupt hands of the MTA it will be for the corrupt members of the board, subsidize jobs for minorities, increase pensions, keep unions happy, and etc, etc.


----------



## webeagle12

Arnorian said:


> So a billion per year for Cuomo to spend on the Upstate.


Yes because all our money now flows down the Hudson river to city itself.


----------



## GojiMet86

*The Yankees Lo-V trip*











IMG_4945 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4948 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4949 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4953 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4954 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4962 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4985 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4986 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_4999 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## Fan Railer

Morning rush hour on the 7 w/ CBTC:


----------



## GojiMet86

R211 mockup (via FB):


----------



## MrAronymous

Surely you mean prototype.


----------



## BoulderGrad

Is that a working model of the train? Or still just the box on the ground at Hudson yards? If the former, then yes, prototype. But if the latter, still mockup is a better way to describe it.


----------



## theunknownumeda

Fan Railer said:


> Morning rush hour on the 7 w/ CBTC:


How many people does the 7 Local transport daily?


----------



## aquamaroon

^^ a quick wikipedia search says the 7/7 express carries about 817,793 riders a day. That figure is from 2014 though, pre-Hudson Yards, so I have to imagine ridership has increased since then.

As an aside that ridership number really puts the MTA in perspective. This ONE line has the same daily ridership as *Chicago's entire El System!* And it's not even the MTA's busiest line! (The 4/5/6 carries way more riders) Just goes to show how New York's subway system is just a different beast than the metros in the rest of the country.


----------



## Alargule

aquamaroon said:


> [...] about 817,793 [...]


That's vaguely sorta kinda very specific.


----------



## aquamaroon

:lol: that's the exact number from the Wikipedia page! You're right I shouldn't have used "about" since I was quoting an exact number, sorry about that!


----------



## aquamaroon

^^ From the article:



> What would New York build if we were capable of building at the same prices as Paris or London — a city that is older than New York, shares many of our engineering challenges, and has high construction costs by world standards, even if they are much lower than ours?
> 
> You could start with all the projects that get kicked around but haven’t been funded. The full Second Avenue Subway, from 125th Street to the Financial District. An extension of the 7 train to Secaucus, New Jersey, where it would connect with train lines and a relocated bus terminal. The N train to La Guardia airport. A subway under Utica Avenue. The Gateway Program.
> 
> *But it’s possible to think even bigger. The RPA has one such vision it calls T-REX, or the Trans-Regional Express. You can think of it as New York’s version of Crossrail or the RER. T-REX would start with the already planned Gateway Program, bringing two new tracks from New Jersey into Penn Station, then it would extend those tracks to Queens, adding a new station along the way at Third Avenue and 31st Street. Instead of terminating at Penn Station, commuter trains would begin service in New Jersey, proceed through Penn Station and that new station in Midtown East, continue to Queens, then branch off toward Long Island or north to the Bronx and Westchester.
> 
> Then we would build a brand-new express subway line running the full length of Manhattan under Third Avenue. Commuter trains would enter this line from the Bronx, stop a few times on their way south through Manhattan, then proceed to Atlantic Terminal and onward to Queens and JFK airport. And then we’d build two additional subway tunnels from New Jersey to Manhattan to carry even more commuter trains into the city; they’d run in a half-loop with stops at Columbus Circle, Grand Central, and Union Square.
> 
> Even if you have no interest in the suburbs, you could use the system to zip from the Upper East Side to Downtown Brooklyn, or from Columbus Circle to JFK. And added capacity in the core of the rail system would make it feasible to do something city politicians have wanted for years: harmonize fares within the city on commuter-rail and subway trains, so residents of eastern Queens and the Bronx could use the extensive existing rail infrastructure in their neighborhoods at a reasonable price.
> 
> Commutes would be transformed. The RPA estimates you would be able to get from Williamsbridge in the North Bronx to the Financial District in 28 minutes, down from just over an hour today. Getting from North Bergen, New Jersey, to Midtown East would take 11 minutes, down from 50. Carl Weisbrod, a former MTA board member, notes that better transit connectivity to New Jersey is especially important because it’s the part of the metropolitan area that is adding new housing development, and we need a way for people to get from new homes in New Jersey to new jobs in New York.*



:drool::drool::drool::drool::drool:


BUT:



> *The problem with this transformational plan is that, given the way New York does construction now, it would cost $71 billion in the RPA’s estimation. And that cost isn’t all-inclusive; it doesn’t even include trains.
> It assumes Northeast Corridor improvements, including the planned Gateway tunnel, will be built first at a cost of $39 billion. And Gateway is dependent on federal funding Trump is reluctant to provide. All told, realizing this vision would likely cost about $130 billion. At what point is the price too high for a project like this to be worth building, however cool it would be?*



:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:



EDIT: BTW this isn't just a New York issue but an American one; just look at California High Speed Rail from my side of the country, a monumentally useful and obvious infrastructure project that nevertheless may or may not be completed because the cost of building stuff like this in America is just too darn high!


----------



## browntown

aquamaroon said:


> EDIT: BTW this isn't just a New York issue but an American one; just look at California High Speed Rail from my side of the country, a monumentally useful and obvious infrastructure project that nevertheless may or may not be completed because the cost of building stuff like this in America is just too darn high!


Well, it's primarily just a blue state issue although admittedly red states don't generally build transit so it's hard to get an apples to apples comparison. However, states like Texas are able to build 100 miles of freeway for less than it takes to build a few miles of subway in NYC which seems pretty absurd.

At the end of the day if places like New York and California really want new infrastructure they're going to need to be willing to play hard ball with the NIMBYs and unions and right now they're completely unwilling to do so. The liberal politicians in these areas see the aforementioned groups as their political base and are completely unwilling to oppose them. If anything they often treat infrastructure projects as handouts to their union voters and therefore try and drag them out as long as possible and waste as many federal dollars on them as possible.


----------



## phoenixboi08

aquamaroon said:


> California High Speed Rail from my side of the country, a monumentally useful and obvious infrastructure project that nevertheless may or may not be completed because the cost of building stuff like this in America is just too darn high!


CAHSR's issue isn't costs (it's fairly modest, even at the most conservative estimates, at around $150-250 million/mi). It's not as expensive as media loves to tout; they're honestly either stupid or blind - the LATimes has an outright grudge against most transit projects.

If you want to see a HSR that's insanely expensive, check out the Lyon-Turin project...

The real issues are complex, but it isn't really much that lies at the feet of the Authority...at the sake of staying on topic, I encourage you to read up a bit more on just what the Administration (particularly the FRA/FTA/DOT) has been doing to try and silently kill off projects (...CalTrain electrification...) they don't like.

As someone who has read almost every one of the business plans from the CAHSRA, the Times often misrepresents or wholly misconstrues basic information (eg. the decision to prioritize the SF-Bay Area bookend over LA due to local opposition to route alternatives that forced them to study a tunnel under the San Gabriels).



browntown said:


> At the end of the day if places like New York and California really want new infrastructure they're going to need to be willing to play hard ball with the NIMBYs and unions and right now they're completely unwilling to do so. The liberal politicians in these areas see the aforementioned groups as their political base and are completely unwilling to oppose them. If anything they often treat infrastructure projects as handouts to their union voters and therefore try and drag them out as long as possible and waste as many federal dollars on them as possible.


Oh please...The Federal government needs to get its act together and establish a fair/long-term funding source for mass transit, pass meaningful rail-reform(s), and update NEPA and all associated planning processes for such projects.


----------



## LtBk

No surprise there. Republicans, and the American right in general don't believe in investing money that benefits the general population.


----------



## Skalka

LtBk said:


> No surprise there. Republicans, and the American right in general don't believe in investing money that benefits the general population.


There are only three things that drastically reduce inequality (which investing money benefitting the general population is all about): war, epidemics and total revolution. The last two things are out of question and the first one, well, America has grown tired of wars and I guess kickstarting World War III just in order for the survivors to have enough PTSD to work off their horror at Big Apple Crossrail is too hardcore.


----------



## phoenixboi08

> *With OMNY launch, the end of the MetroCard almost finally arrives*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Ultimately, then, this is the true end of the MetroCard.
> We’ll be stuck with it until 2023, but the 1990s’ hot new
> thing that somehow became a familiar New York icon in
> short order is on the way out._


I don't know why no reporting on this grasps the significance of implementing these systems and making requisite changes on the back-end, but whatever.

I'm mostly curious if they're going to install readers to have riders swipe out: It would add better data to determine travel behavior and analyze trips, but we'll see I guess.


----------



## zidar fr

I have published the first NYC subway map of my own making back in 2014. Ever since I have been updating and reworking it with each iteration getting better and better (I guess there is no end in this process).

With time I have come to grasp the extent to which the Manhattan street grid is important to New Yorkers and that even a fully schematic map should conform to it if the overall picture is to feel familiar, feel right.

This time I have added the very streets on the map. Actually all Avenues and one Street every 10 blocks (10th, 20th...) as it makes wayfinding intuitive and provides a reliable scale to that part of the map.

Even on a schematic map topology and proportions are essential.

You will notice that the grid is condensed vertically in Harlem to save space (distance between streets diminishes) while it disappear Downtown where a lot of blank space is necessary to portray the very dense network.


So how do you make a schematic map feel like the real city?

- Respect the street grid in Manhattan
- Offset Lexington Avenue line
- Make Queens Blvd straight (thanks @KickMap for the insight)
- Show Central Park as an elongated rectangle

Also:

- Separate local and express services: "no stop, no dot"
- Expand crowded Downtown Manhattan area to disentangle the network
- Do the same in Downtown Brooklyn
- Add all ferry services for good measure

I hope I am now approaching a layout that New Yorkers would accept as familiar.











Zoomable map:
http://www.inat.fr/metro/new-york/


----------



## dariustolkowski

Any future readers should be installed or "connected" in such way that would allow for maximum travel analytics. This will translate in better service mapping, station maintenance among other things to account for here. In addition, I would venture to implement some sensory system that would capture "unpaid" or "illegal" system access behavior, this way MTA will be able to ascertain the scale of this phenomenon and its actual location.


----------



## Alargule

I like the philosophy behind your map, Jug. It really strikes a nice balance between geographic accuracy and diagrammatic simplification.

However, I wonder if you really need that many route markers along the lines, or even if you really need them at all. Routes can be 'backtracked' from their respective termini. Especially for 'simple' lines like the 7, the L and the G, I don't think it's necessary to use intermediate route markers. They might be of added value on the more complex routes, but I'd use them sparingly (e.g. on the Queens Boulevard line - placing them just once would do). It would remove some 'clutter' on your map.

Secondly, the skip-stop pattern of the J/Z rush hour lines. I've always had trouble figuring out how to best represent that pattern myself. You've managed to solve it partly by showing each line individually. However, that still leaves the problem that both lines run in parallel, only differing in the stations where they stop. As it appears, you've still needed to mark the stations where the Z stops individually. Showing both lines apart, next to the 'regular' J, also makes for a very 'thick' line, which doesn't really do justice to the service frequency (e.g. the 5/6 combination is shown as a single line, but runs at a higher frequency). Maybe showing the rush hour line as a single line, and placing callouts at each individual station indicating which line stops there, might be a better solution.

Finally - and this is more philosophical in nature - the way lines are shown in bundles. First off, I really prefer the idea to show the express and local parts of the Manhattan trunk routes individually, rather than as a single line, like it's done on the official Map. This makes it unambiguous whether a train stops at a station or not ('no dot, no stop'). However, though bundling works fine on the trunk lines, it more or less breaks down on the other lines of the network with local/express service when routes from different trunk lines run on the same tracks. For example: the Queens Boulevard line (E/F,R/M) and the Central Park West line (A/D,B/C). Here, you can't bundle the individual routes because they don't share the same colour. This might lead to the (false) assumption that service on these lines is more frequent than on the trunk lines.

One way to deal with this is to display each route individually, like it was done on the Kick Map by Eddie Jabbour. Here, Jabbour applies different shades for each route. A variation with shading differing between local and express might also be possible, though. Another solution is one that I thought up at the start of this decade, which is 'track based' rather than 'route based'. Here, you can see that I 'compressed' individual routes coming from different trunk lines when they share tracks, for example the CPW stretch between 59 St and 145 St. Maxwell Roberts also came up with that solution independently, though I can't find a copy of that map online any longer (he also seems to have given up on this approach and opted for the bundled approach instead since he entered his circular period). Anyway, it's a matter of degree, with the 'trunk based' approach of the official Map on the one extreme and the 'route based' approach of Jabbour (and Vignelli) on the other. Yours and mine fall somewhere in between.


----------



## Stuu

zidar fr said:


> I have published the first NYC subway map of my own making back in 2014. Ever since I have been updating and reworking it with each iteration getting better and better (I guess there is no end in this process).


Really like this, much better than the official map. 

How annoyed would you be if I pointed out 72 St (1, 2, 3) is not just a local stop?


----------



## MrAronymous

Shame the NJ Transit lines can't be shown schematically like the LIRR lines are, which I think looks pretty neat.


----------



## zidar fr

@Alargule
Thanks, I took me years to get to this balance.

*Intermediate markers*

Usually I do not use these. Normally metro lines are clearly separated with each one having a unique color. The color + the number at the end of the line is sufficient for identification.



NYC is an exception where several lines with different stop patterns share a common color and run through the same tunnel. A similar setting is used for RER in Paris but there all trains stop at all stations on the central common trunk.


In NYC it is quite difficult to differentiate local an express lines, even with a slightly different shade. You could follow the line to its end to get its letter/number but you might get confused on the way.


That's why I added intermediate markers so that uninitiated users who would find this particular setting ambiguous could precisely identify lines.


The abundance of markers is for mobile use, on higher zoom levels you just have to move the map a little bit to get to a nearby marker.



*J/Z lines
*

Nassau Street local/express is actually 3 lines:
- J off peak
- J rush hours
- Z rush hours


So I figured it would be neater if all 3 were represented in their own right with the "no stop, no dot" rule fully implemented. There is a similar situation on Grand Concourse in the Bronx with D regular, D rush and B rush.


With such a complex pattern as J/Z you want to remove as much ambiguity as possible and since space is not a problem on that part of the map there is no reason not to show the pattern in full details.


For good measure I added a textual explanation on stations where Z stops, redundancy is your ally when you are addressing a wide audience.


I don't see the perception of frequency as much of an issue. It is a subway map after all so all lines are supposed to be pretty frequent, unlike on a bus map we don't need to stress frequency differences here as they are marginal.



*Lines in bundles*



Consistency would require each service to be shown as a separate line, like on KickMap. Nevertheless real estate space is at a premium in Manhattan where the network is densest so you want to remove any non essential piece of information. Bundling together services which have identical stopping patterns into one line does the job: express with express, local with local. We still have a fully consistent approach (no stop, no dot), no ambiguity, and we saved a lot of space, 7 lines to be precise, which makes the map much less cluttered and leaves enough room for labels.


This is a very compact map, readable in 30x30cm format and suitable for mobile use and although Manhattan is magnified there is a limit to its size compared to the rest of the network.


Outside Manhattan there is enough room on the canvas to show all services as separate lines so there is no need to bundle them even in case it would have been possible. 



Speaking of KickMap, it is when talking with Eddie Jabour that I realized I should rework my map to stick much closer to the street layout, to the perceived geography of the city. It is he who stressed how 7 and F/E/R/M should align on Queens Boulevard. And he was right of course, consequently it places Jamaica more to the South which is beneficial to the overall balance of the drawing.


The issue is always to find the right balance, show enough but not too much. 

Queens Blvd alignement, yes.
4/5/6 Lexington Avenue line jumping on Park avenue for a few blocks and breaking the fine vertical axis from Harlem to Downtown, no.








@Stuu
Thanks for pointing the omission, I have corrected the map. 



43st, 52st and 59 st on N line in Brooklyn too.


@MrAronymous
I'm afraid there is not enough space here for NJ Transit and Metro North. This would require a wider layout. Actually the main reason that drove me to showing the entire LIRR network is that I had a lot of blank space top right since NYC subway network is more vertical than horizontal and my canvas is square.


----------



## browntown

LtBk said:


> No surprise there. Republicans, and the American right in general don't believe in investing money that benefits the general population.


Stop trying to make this into a black and white issue. Nothing is good at any cost. Infrastructure is good, but that benefit has to be weighed against its cost. Unfortunately due to the absolutely absurd cost of building rail in NYC and many other US cities the benefits simply aren't great enough to justify it. If the price of building new rail in the NY Metro were more in line with other major world cities there wouldn't even be a debate over whether or not to fund new rail projects in NYC. But that's NOT reality so we have to deal with the way things actually are and unfortunately here in the real world it doesn't really make sense to build new subway lines in NYC.


----------



## Alargule

Thanks for your reply Jug, it really sheds some more light onto the thought processes involved.



> [...]The abundance of markers is for mobile use, on higher zoom levels you just have to move the map a little bit to get to a nearby marker.[...]


Coming to think of it: during the Transit Mapping Symposium, Hanna Kops presented some ideas on a responsive interface, i.e. the map showing more or less details, depending on your zoom level. Maybe some food for thought for a next iteration of your NYC map


----------



## zidar fr

^^
KickMap does a fine job at providing a responsive interface with more details appearing as you zoom in.

I for now stick to static maps that can be used both online and on print.
Converting them all (50+ maps) to a dynamic layout would require an amount of work and time I am not able nor willing to provide. Actually the best approach would be some level of automation which I can't implement at the moment but should be able to do in a couple of years or so.


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## mrsmartman

> #TodayinHistory: Taken #OnThisDay in 1922, these #NYTMCollection archival images document the Interborough Rapid Transit Company’s 59th Street Powerhouse. Occupying an entire city block between 58th and 59th Streets and Eleventh and Twelfth Avenues, this impressive powerhouse was built in 1904 to provide electricity to the city’s first subway system. Designed by McKim Mead & White, the building featured an ornate City Beautiful-style exterior with six massive smokestacks, and was the largest steam powerhouse in the world at the time of its completion. These historical images provide a glimpse into the powerhouse’s operating room where steam engines and alternator units were housed.
> In 1959, as the subway system adopted new technologies that required less electricity to operate effectively, the powerhouse was sold to Consolidated Edison and became a steam-generating plant. In 2016, the NYC Landmarks Preservation Committee prioritized the 59th Street Powerhouse for landmark designation, recognizing its architectural and historical significance as a treasured part of our city’s transit history.





















Courtesy of the New York Transit Museum Collection.

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## mrsmartman

*Coenties Slip, New York City 1930s*










Postcards from old New York

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## Ultramatic

*The MTA's New OMNY Scanners Have Cameras In Them (But They're Not Watching You, Yet)*
By  Jen Chung  June 14, 2019 1:00 p.m. 
•  41 Comments  











OMNY, the MTA's new tap-to-pay system being piloted at 16 subway stations and on all Staten Island bus routes, has exceeded the MTA's forecasts during the first week of operation, with tens of thousands of riders opting to use a digital wallet or contactless credit card instead of their MetroCard. OMNY is scheduled to be rolled out across the entire subway and bus system, and on commuter railroads, to ultimately replace the MetroCard and usher in a new era of commuting ("new" for New York, anyway). 
However, you may not have known that the scanners contain a camera, along with infrared illuminators, situated at the kiosk's base. A tipster pointed them out to us, noting that they spotted the "small laptop style hidden camera" and illuminators, and wondered if they were used for "infrared based facial recognition to obtain a clearer image of the face."
"The camera and illuminators in the OMNY validators are only in place to support future use of bar code and QR code for ticketing; they cannot and do not support biometrics of any kind," said Steve Brunner, general manager, New York Tri-State Region, for Cubic Transportation Systems. 


Cubic is the company behind OMNY fare payment system; they work with transit systems around the world, including Hong Kong, London, San Francisco, Chicago, and Washington, D.C. Cubic also has a division that specializes in defense ("help[ing] customers effectively equip and train warfighters and law enforcement personnel, in turn making the world a safer place"). We have asked Cubic for details on the camera's make and model. 
The MTA emphatically stated that the OMNY cameras are currently disabled and are physically incapable of being used for facial recognition. (And after all, there are plenty of regular cameras installed all over the subway system.)
However, the presence of cameras—even ones that may only be for bar code and QR code scanning—still worried critics, who reiterated overall privacy concerns with OMNY. 
Albert Fox Cahn, executive director of the privacy group Surveillance Technology Oversight Project, noted that OMNY's privacy policy neglects to mention anything about cameras—the words "barcode, camera, infrared, scanner, photo, video, image (apart from an unrelated reference to website tracking), and recording" were not found.
"Unfortunately, it’s hard to know what the full range of capabilities for these cameras are without more technical data. There are certainly some barcode scanners (such as in many grocery check-out aisles) that are incapable of being used for computer vision or facial recognition. Yet at the same time there are many camera systems that could be used for both barcode and facial recognition," Cahn told Gothamist. "It’s disappointing that the MTA just wants us to take them on their word that these hidden features have a limited capabilities, rather than having an open design process that would actually reassure New Yorkers."
The lack of an open design was also remarked upon by Jonathan Stribling-Uss, a 
Technologist Fellow at the NYCLU. "I think the OMNY system has not had enough transparency about its data storage and sharing procedures," he said. "We don’t have enough information about how these systems have been built."
The MTA plans to make OMNY available on all subways and buses, including the Staten Island Railway, by the end of 2020, with commuters using contactless credit/debit cards and digital wallets (MetroCard will still be an option). Then, in 2021, the OMNY card, which customers can buy with cash or credit, will be introduced. After OMNY is also adopted on the Long Island Rail Road and Metro-North, the MetroCard will be completely phased out. 
The RFID (Radio Frequency Identification) technology utilized by contactless credit or debit cards has been an area of concern for the NYCLU. In February, Stribling-Uss testified at a New York City Council hearing about the city's IDNYC program using the technology for its ID cards:
...


----------



## mrsmartman

> #TodayinHistory: #OnThisDay in 1905, the Wall Street station on the IRT East Side line opened as a one-station extension from the Fulton Street station that opened six months earlier. While the Wall Street station on the IRT West Side line has two tracks and one island platform, this station has two tracks and two side platforms.
> 
> Many original elements of the station make it feel like you’re taking a step back in time. The station retains its original IRT name tablet mosaics, iron pillars, and ceiling fixtures. An original wooden token booth remains on the downtown platform. Today, the station is served by the 4 at all times and the 5 except on weekday late nights.
> 
> In the 1970s, the station was renovated and adorned with dark blue tiles, but in 2006 it was restored back to its original appearance with white tiles. What’s your favorite part of this station?



















































Courtesy of the New York Transit Museum Collection.

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## FabriFlorence

^^ Dark blue tiles were no bad. I liked them.


----------



## phoenixboi08

Ultramatic said:


> *The MTA's New OMNY Scanners Have Cameras In Them (But They're Not Watching You, Yet)*
> By  Jen Chung  June 14, 2019 1:00 p.m.
> •  41 Comments


The cameras are not germane¹ to the discussion, I think; This kind of data is already collected by any transit agency that has any kind of suitable sensor (eg. infrared, surveillance cameras, etc on buses or trains to figure out passenger loads).

The real issue is that the MTA hasn't produced a reasonably comprehensive ToS/privacy policy, and as such are creating a headache for themselves by appearing shady.

I highly doubt they're even _capable_ of carrying out any of the most nefarious aspects of what people might assume these oversights portend, but this is clearly going to be a PR nightmare for them and could have been avoided.



¹_If they're for anything other than scanning QR/barcodes, they're to count passengers going in/out to help determine fare evasion_


----------



## urbanflight




----------



## GojiMet86

IMG_5662 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5656 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_5677 by GojiMet86, on Flickr
IMG_5692 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5693 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5621 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5625 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5648 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5652 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5715 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5759 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5800 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5804 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5822 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5828 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5907 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5923 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5926 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5927 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6260 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6262 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6268 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6272 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6273 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6274 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6280 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6318 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6319 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6335 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6337 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6351 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6389 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6463 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6465 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6473 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6475 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## luacstjh98

What exactly is the NYC Subway waiting for to install platform doors?

I would think it would be possible to have platform doors operated by the conductor with a control panel outside his window, like what they have on some Japanese railways...


----------



## Alargule

Why would they install PSD's in the first place? It's not that it's commonplace in all other metro systems.


----------



## BadHatter

Do you really need platform doors though?


----------



## Stuu

luacstjh98 said:


> What exactly is the NYC Subway waiting for to install platform doors?
> 
> I would think it would be possible to have platform doors operated by the conductor with a control panel outside his window, like what they have on some Japanese railways...


There's lots more important things to spend money on. And they would cost $100m per station at New York prices


----------



## mrsmartman

> In the early days of mass transportation, rival private companies often built transportation lines close to one another, competing to capture customers and fares. Individual transit companies would map their own rail, bus or subway lines – with no mention of any other transit options. So, riders were forced to consult a bewildering variety of sources to determine how to travel. Commercial mapmakers such as August Ohman, Andrew Hagstrom, and George Nostrand created integrated maps showing the all the competing lines together.
> 
> This #NYTMCollection map was created by August R. Ohman in 1925. The map clearly marked transfers between subway, trolley, and elevated lines, after the system’s expansion in the 1920s. Ohman’s maps were the first to depict the rapid transit network as a whole.
> 
> Learn more in our #NavigatingNY exhibit: http://nytransitmuseum.org/exhibits.












Courtesy of the New York Transit Museum Collection.

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## luacstjh98

Stuu said:


> There's lots more important things to spend money on. And they would cost $100m per station at New York prices





BadHatter said:


> Do you really need platform doors though?


I recall they were planning a pilot at 3rd Avenue on the Canarsie Line, that was priced at $30 million.

There are some quite low-cost designs that the Japanese are pushing out across Tokyo, but yeah, if it's not invented in New York...


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## BadHatter

I don't want to stray too far offtopic here and lead to a big argument, but I don't really see the benefits of platform doors. Yes, some people fall on rails sometime (whether on accident or deliberately). If it's an accident, there should be plenty of people around to help, whether its signaling the driver, contacting the authorities, or instructing the person on where to go and how to climb back up while avoiding the 3rd rail. Obviously the subway is a 24 hour service, so there may be plenty of situations where there may be no people around to help, but the frequency of nighttime service is much lower as well which significantly lowers your chances of having a run in with the train. If it's deliberate, there isn't much you can do about that indeed, and a disruption to the service will happen, not to mention the tragedy of it all. But spending several million dollars per station to prevent a possible suicide attempt (that probably won't actually prevent suicide anyway, just prevent it from happening in the subway) seems like a lot. There are better ways to spend that money on the subway AND there are better ways to spend that money to help out suicidal folk. Not to mention that these new doors have moving parts, and as such will need regular service, which is either money on staff or money on service contracts.


----------



## Clery

BadHatter said:


> I don't want to stray too far offtopic here and lead to a big argument, but I don't really see the benefits of platform doors.


Platform doors allow trains to enter at full speed in the station even when the platform is overcrowded. Without those, the train is forced to enter and leave at a slower speed for obvious safety reasons. This increases the time spent on station which as a consequence reduce the max frequency of trains on the line (the faster a train moves out, the faster the next one can come in).

In Paris, that's the reason why they've been added on line 13, which is notorious for being saturated. Trains can't handle all passengers so the platforms get fully filled and people have even to queue in access corridors.

Platform doors are also required for driverless trains. As there's no one in the cabin in order to pull on the brakes if any unexpected event occures, we simply cannot afford to keep an open access to rail tracks in such a context. That's why we have those one line 1 and 14 (and why they are added to line 4 which is currently under full-automation works).

But I agree with you otherwise. On lines which aren't automated which doesn't suffer because of regular overcrowding, potential gains with platform doors are marginal.


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## mrsmartman

> #TodayinHistory: #OnThisDay in 1947, the New York City Transit Authority announced details of the R11 subway car order. At a ceremony celebrating the R11 car design, dignitaries marveled over a detailed model of the car. Now a treasured part of the #NYTMCollection, the scale model featured many of the innovations the R11 cars introduced: round porthole windows, a sleek shot-welded stainless-steel body, and ceiling vents equipped with special ultraviolet lamps in place of traditional ceiling fans. The model also included a cut out section displaying the original interior design of the R11 cars, including miniature beige and blue striped wicker seats and tiny vintage ads for popular household products at the time.
> 
> This model is currently housed in the Museum’s Gabrielle Shubert Research Center in Sunset Park, but if you love the R11 car class, come on down to the Transit Museum in Downtown Brooklyn to see the real deal! Vintage R11/R34 car #8013 is available to board and explore on our platform level.








































Courtesy of the New York Transit Museum Collection.

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


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## sebass123

when will the MTA start installing CBTC in other lines?


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## mrsmartman

> #ParadeofTrains is back! Ride the rails in historic style on Saturday and Sunday, September 28th and 29th, by hopping on and off a selection of cars from the Museum’s vintage fleet at the Brighton Beach Station B/Q platforms.
> 
> Please Note: Parade of Trains is free with a swipe of your MetroCard! Shuttle rides will run continuously to and from the Brighton Beach station express platforms from 11am to 4pm. Brighton Beach will serve as the sole terminus for all shuttle rides. Vintage trains will be traveling in both directions, making a short round trip to Ocean Parkway and a longer round trip to Kings Highway. Passengers will only be able to get on and off the trains at the Brighton Beach station. Car equipment TBD.
> 
> Learn more at https://www.nytransitmuseum.org/program/paradeoftrains2019/all/.












Courtesy of the New York Transit Museum Collection.

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## mrsmartman

> Prior to system unification in 1940, private companies such as banks and hotels created their own transit maps. Their maps incorporated all three independent subway systems and boldly marked their own businesses. Featured in our #NavigatingNY exhibit, this #NYTMCollection map, created by Stephen Voorhies for Union Dime Savings Bank in 1940, was designed and produced independently. However, the New York City Transit Authority briefly officially issued it from 1954-1957 as a free map.
> 
> Visit the #NYTransitMuseum in #Brooklyn to view more historic transit maps: nytransitmuseum.org/visit.













Courtesy of the New York Transit Museum Collection.

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## bd popeye

"El" trains were once a main transportation source on Manhattan. Here's a map as they appeared on Manhattan in 1939. This is the large version.

*IRT route map 1939*



City: New York
System: New York City Transit
Line: 3rd Avenue El
Location: Hanover Square 
Car: MUDC 
Collection of: Ed Watson/Arthur Lonto Collection
Notes: A southbound train of MUDC cars approaches Hanover Square station on the Pearl Street extension of the Third Avenue El in the 1940s.



City: New York
System: New York City Transit
Line: 9th Avenue El
Location: Rector Street 
Car: MUDC 
Collection of: Joe Testagrose
Date: 3/25/1940



City: New York
System: New York City Transit
Line: 3rd Avenue El
Location: Chatham Square 
Car: Manhattan El 979 
Photo by: Frank Goldsmith
Collection of: Joe Testagrose
Date: 6/8/1940



City: New York
System: New York City Transit
Line: 3rd Avenue El
Location: Canal Street 
Car: MUDC 
Photo by: Frank Pfuhler
Date: 5/12/1955
Notes: View looking south at Chatham Sq. station.



City: New York
System: New York City Transit
Line: 3rd Avenue El
Location: 9th Street 
Car: MUDC 
Photo by: Frank Pfuhler
Date: 5/12/1955
Notes: Northbound express.



City: New York
System: New York City Transit
Line: 3rd Avenue El
Location: 34th Street 
Car: MUDC 
Photo by: Frank Pfuhler
Date: 5/10/1955
Notes: Work train.



City: New York
System: New York City Transit
Line: 9th Avenue El
Location: 155th Street 
Car: MUDC 
Collection of: Joe Testagrose
Date: 1935

*NYC Subway*


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## mrsmartman

> Manufactured by the St. Louis Car Company between 1961 and 1962, the R30 subway cars were nearly identical to the R27s ordered just two years prior. Both train types were coupled as “married pairs,” and the fleets replaced most of the BMT Standards and primarily ran on the BMT Eastern Division.
> 
> Like the R27 fleet, the R30s sported quite a few paint schemes while in service. The cars were delivered in a dark olive-green shade, but throughout the late 1960s to the 1980s, most of the fleet was repainted bright red and nicknamed the BMT #Redbirds. The General Electric-powered R30s were also overhauled in the 1980s as a part of the Clean Car Program, an initiative to eradicate graffiti on NYC subway cars.
> 
> #OnThisDay in 1993, the last of the General Electric R30s ran on the C line, with a farewell trip sponsored by the Electric Railroaders Association. Were any of our followers on the Farewell to the R30 Fan Trip? Tell us your stories of these cars in the comments below.












R-30 Overhaul; New York Transit Museum Collection










R-30 Car at Eastern Parkway; New York Transit Museum Collection

Courtesy of the New York Transit Museum Collection.



> Not all tokens are created equal! “Y” not? Because these Y-cut tokens were punched off-kilter! The letter standing for the “York” in New York City is supposed to be nestled between the “N” and the “C” but sometimes the punch fell in the wrong place. These specimens’ counterparts were in use from 1970-1980. As the tongue-twister goes: New York’s Unique!












Courtesy of the New York Transit Museum Collection.

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


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## dariustolkowski

I kind of miss tokens. These were the days and some.


----------



## mrsmartman

> #TodayinHistory: #OnThisDay in 1956, the IND Rockaway Line began subway service. The line was originally part of the Long Island Railroad. Starting in the 1890s, the Brooklyn Elevated Railway and later the BRT used the line for Brooklyn Elevated trains. In 1950, a track fire destroyed the trestle across Jamaica Bay, making the line unusable. The LIRR sold the line to the City for $8.5m and converted it for subway use. All of the stations except Far Rockaway – Mott Avenue opened on June 28, 1956, with the Far Rockaway station opening in January of 1958.
> 
> This #NYTMCollection photograph from the NYCTA Photograph Unit Collection shows Charles L. Patterson, NYCTA Chairman, with his wife and son, Charles L. Patterson Jr., putting the first token into the turnstile at the new Grant Avenue Station during the IND Rockaway line opening celebrations.












Courtesy of the New York Transit Museum Collection.

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## mrsmartman

> What would summer be without a trip to Coney Island? On Saturday, July 20th, enjoy a scenic ride to the beach on our vintage subway cars. Once we arrive at Stillwell Avenue, play on the boardwalk, take a dip in the ocean, brave the rides at Luna Park, and try one of Nathan’s Famous Hot Dogs!
> 
> Learn more at nytransitmuseum.org/program/coneyisland-0720/.






















Courtesy of the New York Transit Museum Collection.

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## mrsmartman

*Ninth Avenue Elevated
Christopher St Station in 1936*










Courtesy of Old New York City.

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## Polak_w_Kanadzie

bd popeye said:


> I doubt if any of the graffiti painted cars were ever preserved. To me graffiti is vandalism..but still many consider this art.hno:


Is it anyhow different from (paid) ads pasted top to bottom on many transit vehicles? Those mesh printed stickers are annoying and causing eye pain when you try to look through the windows


----------



## Miami High Rise

When my eyes were stabbed by the holes of a mesh print wrap.


----------



## mrsmartman

*Bergen St. Billiard Room circa 1906*
Men in uniform playing billiards in the Brooklyn Rapid Transit's Bergen St. Clubhouse billiard room.










Courtesy of Old New York City.

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## Alargule

That looks more like a pool table to me. Or is the term 'billiards' used generically?


----------



## Jan

> City Hall Station -
> 
> You can catch a glimpse of it on the 6 Train by Brooklyn Bridge–City Hall Station.


I discovered this the last time I was there. Too bad they don't leave the lights on so you can fully appreciate the station from inside the cabin.


----------



## Rebasepoiss

Maybe there should be another thread for historical photos of the NY Subway?


----------



## Alargule

Why? I like them.


----------



## mrsmartman

> From the #NYTMCollection: 30 years ago, New York City Transit launched an ad campaign with the by-line “The Subway. We’re coming back, so you come back.” The campaign was designed to change New Yorkers opinion of the subway and convince them it was no longer the system that it once was. Do you remember seeing these commercials?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGtStQOwiis







Courtesy of the New York Transit Museum Collection.

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## mrsmartman

> #TodayinHistory: #OnThisDay in 2006, R160B cars began revenue service testing on the N line after a year of successful non-revenue service tests. The R160B cars were assembled by @Kawasaki in Yonkers, New York, while the R160A cars were assembled by Alstom in Hornell, New York. The R160A cars entered service a few months after the R160Bs, in October of 2006. All R160B cars are configured as five-car sets while some R160A cars operate in four-car sets to accommodate for shorter platforms in the BMT Eastern Division.
> 
> The R160s introduced regenerative braking and the Flexible Information and Notice Displays, replacing strip maps. Some R160s have been retrofitted with looped stanchions, folding seats, and LCD screens.
> 
> What is your favorite car type currently in service?
























Courtesy of the New York Transit Museum Collection.

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## mrsmartman

> Service designations—the fancy name for numbers or letters assigned to trains—are one of the more confusing parts of New York’s subway system. For example, BMT lines had been numbered since 1924, but the IRT, which opened in 1904, also used numbers. In the 1950s, customers at Union Square might get on a train marked “4” and expect to go to Woodlawn (an IRT stop) but end up in Coney Island (a BMT stop).
> 
> To address these issues post-subway system unification in 1940, the Transit Authority implemented a new system of numbers and letters in 1960.
> 
> This 1960s “Know Trains at a Glance” sign is now on view in our #ChangingSignsChangingTimes exhibit. Visit our Grand Central Gallery to learn more about the history of wayfinding in transit: nytransitmuseum.org/exhibits.













Courtesy of the New York Transit Museum Collection.

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## mrsmartman

> The Myrtle Avenue El opened in 1888, five years after the Brooklyn Bridge was completed, and twenty years before the subway reached Brooklyn. Beginning in the 1930s, with the opening of what today is the subway’s G-line and the decline of business along Brooklyn’s once vibrant waterfront, ridership on the Myrtle Avenue El decreased. After eighty years, to the dismay of many passengers with fond memories, “Old Myrt” closed on October 4, 1969 and was demolished the following year.
> 
> Wood-body “gate cars” — with end doors and open platforms, dating back to the early 1900s — provided service on the line until 1958. The line then switched to Q-Cars — former wooden gate cars that had been modified and refurbished for service in Queens on the Flushing Line for the 1939 World's Fair. The Q-cars that were in service until its final days were the last wooden bodied cars in the city transit system and the last wooden passenger trains employed in regular service anywhere in North America. After nearly two-thirds of a century of service, they were finally retired when the Myrtle Avenue line was shut down. Most of the cars were scrapped, but one — car 1612C — was preserved and restored as a Q-Car, which is now on view on the #NYTransitMuseum’s platform level. Three others — BU Gate cars 1273, 1404 and 1407 — were also preserved and restored to their original gate-car appearance.
> 
> Today, our restored BU cars return to the rails for a #NostalgiaRide along the El’s route, the current M and J lines. Follow along on our Instagram Story to see scenes from the ride and learn more about the historic Myrtle Avenue El.














































Courtesy of the New York Transit Museum Collection.

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## mrsmartman

Courtesy of Old New York City.

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## mrsmartman

> #TodayinHistory: At 12:01am #OnThisDay in 1933, the IND Queens Boulevard line opened between 7th Avenue – 53rd Street and 74th Street – Roosevelt Avenue. The IND Queens Boulevard line was one of the first lines built by the Independent City-Owned Subway. Contracts for construction were split into various sections each awarded to different companies in 1927, with construction beginning in December of 1928. Since the primary method for constructing the line was cut-and-cover, various intersections along Queens Boulevard had to become grade-separated, and Queens Boulevard had to become drastically widened.
> 
> Do you live along the Queens Boulevard line?


South wall of the Roosevelt Avenue Station. Taken for the installation of new escalators at 73rd Street and Roosevelt Avenue. October 1, 1957. From the New York Transit Museum Collection.












Route sign for F Train that ran from Kings Highway to Jamaica – 179th Street along Queens Boulevard. April 7, 1975. From the New York Transit Museum Collection.












Courtesy of the New York Transit Museum Collection.

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## mrsmartman

*Bowery circa 1910*










Courtesy of Old New York City.

*Bushwick Avenue Construction in 1927*










Courtesy of Old New York City.

*Battery Place in Lower Manhattan*










Courtesy of Old New York City.

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## urbanflight

The MTA paid $1.8 billion in overtime abuse by MTA employees.

The MTA looks more like a mafia than a serious transport authority.








> CBS2's Marcia Kramer has the latest on a fiery MTA board meeting that threatened service cuts right after a scathing report detailed widespread overtime abuse by MTA employees went ignored by officials.


----------



## mrsmartman

*Subway Construction*
at 155 th St and Broadway in 1901










Courtesy of Old New York City.

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## mrsmartman

> When architect Michael Herbstman began his career at the New York City Transit Authority in the 1960s, one of his first assignments was to make more space in the office by cleaning out a closet and discarding some old drawings. The drawings included many of the earliest pencil sketches of subway architecture and ornamentation under the architectural firm Heins and LaFarge, the original architects of the Interborough Rapid Transit Company. Immediately recognizing the historical and artistic value of the works, Herbstman was disinclined to throw them away, and instead, sought permission to take them home.
> 
> Decades later, in 2016, while reading about a Transit Museum exhibit, he remembered the drawings he had saved 50 years earlier, and promptly contacted the museum archivists. In addition to donating the precious salvaged drawings, Mr. Herbstman also donated some of the design work he created for the agency, including a proposal for the “Transit Exhibit,” developed in the run-up to the 1976 opening of what became the #NYTransitMuseum.
> 
> Want to hear more stories of how transit treasure entered the #NYTMCollection? Join Curator Desiree Alden on Tuesday, September 24th for a special gallery talk in our #WhatsOldIsNewAgain exhibit. Gallery talks are free with Museum admission! Learn more at nytransitmuseum.org/septgallerytalk/.













Gift of Michael L. Herbstman, Architect; New York Transit Museum Collection.










Gift of Michael L. Herbstman, Architect; New York Transit Museum Collection.












Gift of Michael L. Herbstman, Architect; New York Transit Museum Collection.












Gift of Michael L. Herbstman, Architect; New York Transit Museum Collection.

Courtesy of the New York Transit Museum Collection.

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## mrsmartman

> We love this view from 40th Street–Lowery Street station on the 7 line. Taken by Dennis Livesey, this photo was featured in our "7 Train: Minutes to Midtown" exhibit, formerly on view at our Grand Central Gallery.
> 
> What's your favorite subway station view?












Courtesy of the New York Transit Museum Collection.

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## mrsmartman

*Kingsbridge Hotel*
In The Bronx : 1910










Courtesy of Old New York City.

*238th St and Broadway*
in 1910










Courtesy of Old New York City.

*Your Trusted Source of Photographs from New York and Pennsylvania*


----------



## BillyF

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAWEX-fKtmWrfnlgHhgbfg85444rAit3i


----------



## BillyF




----------



## N830MH

theunknownumeda said:


> These Budd trains must have proven to be very reliable, since they are still in service. Our oldest Budd trains here started service around 1958 and finished... last year.


Way too long! It's time to retired. They must be replace a new trains car. 



Pierre50 said:


> Good job done during 61 years !!


Wow! 61 years? Unbelievable!! I think it's time to retired.


----------



## BillyF




----------



## Ultramatic

*Rail Fail*

*Newest Subway Cars Breaking Down More Often Than Some Old Ones*

Nov. 21, 2019

The MTA’s newest subway cars break down more frequently than some that have been running since the mid-1980s, records show.

The gleaming new R179 subway cars, which started going into service two years ago this week and cost nearly $2 million each, failed an average of every 127,374 miles, between March and October.

That’s a far higher rate than other models years older — including the durable 1984 R62 cars, which encountered problems every 265,324 miles along the Nos. 1 and 3 lines during the same period.
...


----------



## BillyF




----------



## BillyF




----------



## BillyF

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAWEX-fKtmWrfnlgHhgbfg85444rAit3i


----------



## GojiMet86

*The New York City Subway Map as You’ve Never Seen It Before*

A cool animation by the New York Times on the history of the present-day map.


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/02/nyregion/nyc-subway-map.html



> *The New York City Subway Map as You’ve Never Seen It Before*
> 
> The Metropolitan Transportation Authority map reflects how graphic design, politics and geography have shaped the city over the last 40 years.


----------



## BillyF




----------



## 00Zy99

I'm looking for an old map showing how the Brooklyn Bridge Railroad proposed to extend its line in an elevated loop around downtown Manhattan. Could somebody please help me find it? I think that it might have been in this thread, but 270 is a LOT of pages to go through.


----------



## stockholm79

00Zy99 said:


> I'm looking for an old map showing how the Brooklyn Bridge Railroad proposed to extend its line in an elevated loop around downtown Manhattan. Could somebody please help me find it? I think that it might have been in this thread, but 270 is a LOT of pages to go through.


Checked nycsubway.org?
They have lots of maps and info about projects that never came to be.


----------



## 00Zy99

stockholm79 said:


> Checked nycsubway.org?
> They have lots of maps and info about projects that never came to be.


Thanks for the suggestion. That was the first place that I went, but even asking the admins there didn't yield anything.


----------



## GojiMet86

00Zy99 said:


> I'm looking for an old map showing how the Brooklyn Bridge Railroad proposed to extend its line in an elevated loop around downtown Manhattan. Could somebody please help me find it? I think that it might have been in this thread, but 270 is a LOT of pages to go through.




http://tramway-null.blogspot.com/2014/05/old-plans-for-bmt-chambers-street.html












http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/chambers.html










http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_index/2010/08/the-futurenycsubway-tribororx-atlantic-ave-express/


----------



## 00Zy99

Thanks a ton! That wasn't what I was looking for, but its really fascinating to see the Chambers Street loop plans in such detail. It really helps me visualize that proposal.

What I was talking about was a 19th Century proposal by the Brooklyn Bridge Railroad Company to build an elevated loop that would start at Park Row, circle Downtown, and come back to where it started (Park Row).


----------



## GojiMet86

00Zy99 said:


> Thanks a ton! That wasn't what I was looking for, but its really fascinating to see the Chambers Street loop plans in such detail. It really helps me visualize that proposal.
> 
> What I was talking about was a 19th Century proposal by the Brooklyn Bridge Railroad Company to build an elevated loop that would start at Park Row, circle Downtown, and come back to where it started (Park Row).


Don't think I've heard of that one before. I was familiar with the subway looping back to the Brooklyn Bridge at Chambers.


----------



## BillyF




----------



## BillyF




----------



## BoulderGrad

^^I'd want to see the number for just how much money would be needed to get the NYC subway to the level of... say... the HK or Singapore metros: 

-State of the art train control, and signaling systems.
-State of the art trains with full pass through gangways, electronic signage, security cameras, etc.
-Platform doors at every station.
-AC at every station (NYC gets friggin hot in the summer and the stations make it worse).
-Updated/improved finishes at every station.

What else would be on that checklist?

I know the current renovation plans don't include allll of that, but a lot of elements. NYC Subway loves to ride the waves of investment. Bit of a shit show right now, but not nearly as bad as the old days of graffiti ridden trains in the 70's and 80's.


----------



## GojiMet86

A recent development from the subway:

The R46 trains that run out of the Jamaica Yard and on the F and R lines are now all moving to Coney Island Yard, where they will run on the N, W, and G lines, with some appearances on the B and Q lines.

In return, the new(-ish) R160 trains will be moved to Jamaica Yard, making the E, F, and R lines all R160s, the reason being the testing and soon to be activated CBTC on the Queens Boulevard section.

The last time the R46 ran on the N line was all the way back in the late 1980s. They have run on the G regularly before and the Q sees one in the morning rush hour, but they had never seen service on the W until this December, and to my knowledge the R46 has not seen service on the B.

*The N line is not running all the way to Coney Island, hence it ends at Gravesend-86th Street, which was also a temporary terminal about a decade ago.

































IMG_1851 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1844 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1840 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1854 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1859 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1861 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1881 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1883 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1899 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1898 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1913 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1920 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1928 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1930 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1938 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1969 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1970 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_1972 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## Stuu

streetscapeer said:


> It's not "new construction" really


No, but neither is the Rockaway branch and that is estimated at $8bn. This proposal is much longer


----------



## luacstjh98

^^ but unlike the Rockaway Beach branch, there is already freight train service on the Bay Ridge Branch, so it's just a matter of buying the trains and putting in platforms.

The RBB was abandoned and left to wilderness, so they'll have to rehabilitate the right of way first.


----------



## GojiMet86

*Andy Byford Resigns as New York City’s Subway Chief*

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/23/nyregion/andy-byford-resigns-mta.html



> *Andy Byford Resigns as New York City’s Subway Chief*
> He arrived nearly two years ago to turn around the city’s failing subway, making significant progress.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By Christina Goldbaum and Emma G. Fitzsimmons
> Jan. 23, 2020
> Updated 6:03 p.m. ET
> 
> Andy Byford, who was brought in to help revive New York City’s ailing subway, resigned as its leader on Thursday, ending a tumultuous two-year tenure marked by repeated clashes with Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo.
> 
> Mr. Byford had been widely praised by riders and transportation advocates for reversing the steep decline of the nation’s largest subway, and his departure raises significant questions about the future of an antiquated system struggling to become a 21st century transportation network.
> 
> Mr. Byford had considered quitting for months, but finally decided to resign after chafing over having his job duties scaled back as part of a reorganization plan, according to his resignation letter.
> 
> His new role would “focus solely on day-to-day-running of service,” instead of more ambitious projects, Mr. Byford wrote. There were other leaders, he said, who could “perform this important, but reduced, service delivery role.”
> 
> The reorganization plan had become a priority for Mr. Cuomo.
> 
> Mr. Byford’s departure could jeopardize the current campaign to fix the subway, though Mr. Cuomo on Thursday said that the system was making significant progress and would continue to do so under a new leader.
> 
> Mr. Byford had been hired after the governor had declared the subway to be in a state of emergency.
> 
> He had ambitious plans to transform the system and his dogged work ethic made New Yorkers rally around him. Mr. Byford’s arrival in January 2018 was celebrated as a turning point for the subway, and profiles in The New Yorker and on 60 Minutes followed.
> 
> Mr. Byford had considered quitting since last spring and struggled to get along with Mr. Cuomo, who controls the subway and the flow of money to the system.
> 
> Mr. Cuomo was angry after Mr. Byford tried to resign in October, according to officials familiar with the matter who spoke on the condition of anonymity. The governor signaled to state officials that the tense relationship had reached its end point and that he expected Mr. Byford to be gone by the first quarter of 2020, the officials said.
> 
> By December, Mr. Byford made up his mind that he would leave after completing his second year, those officials said. Another likely departure, officials say, is Pete Tomlin, who was brought in by Mr. Byford to run a multibillion dollar overhaul of the signal system.
> 
> On Thursday, Mr. Cuomo dismissed claims that disagreements between the two men led to Mr. Byford’s resignation, suggesting that plans to reorganize the transit agency — and take some responsibilities away from Mr. Byford — might have contributed to his decision.
> 
> “He did the job for two years,” Mr. Cuomo told reporters. “Nobody does these jobs for a lifetime.”
> 
> In a phone interview, Mr. Byford said he was not pressured to resign.
> 
> “This was 100 percent my decision,” he said. “There was no external pressure for me to go. This is something I’ve given careful thought to.”
> 
> Mr. Byford’s departure was first reported by Politico.
> 
> When Mr. Byford took over running the subway, only 58 percent of trains were on time. There were near constant meltdowns and several train derailments raised safety concerns.
> 
> Mr. Byford helped push the on-time rate over 80 percent through a series of operational changes and a focus on the basics. He said he wanted to bring the on-time rate into the 90s and proposed an ambitious overhaul of the subway’s ancient signal equipment.
> 
> Colleagues say both Mr. Cuomo and Mr. Byford have supersize egos and wanted credit for the subway’s success. They quarreled over plans to fix the L train, a major line between Manhattan and Brooklyn, and new technology to upgrade signals.
> 
> Some believed Mr. Byford’s rock star status may have irked Mr. Cuomo. They compared the dynamic to Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani and his police commissioner, William J. Bratton, who resigned in 1996 shortly after being on the cover of Time magazine.
> 
> When Mr. Byford publicly questioned Mr. Cuomo’s decision to call off the shutdown of the L train tunnel between Manhattan and Brooklyn, Mr. Byford suddenly found himself sidelined. The two men did not speak for four months in 2019.
> 
> Their relationship appeared to improve in recent months. Then Mr. Byford tried to resign in October, citing concerns over budget cuts and interference by Mr. Cuomo’s office. His bosses at the transit agency convinced him to stay, but the détente did not last long.
> 
> “Andy Byford will be departing New York City Transit after a successful two years of service and we thank him for his work,’’ said Patrick J. Foye, the chairman of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, the agency that operates the subway.
> 
> Mr. Foye’s statement did not hint at the problems that had been unfolding behind the scenes in recent months. He thanked Mr. Byford for improving the subway and helping to secure new funding for the system, along with Mr. Cuomo and state lawmakers.
> 
> Officials at the authority will face a big decision in replacing Mr. Byford. Sally Librera, Mr. Byford’s top lieutenant and the first woman to lead the subways division, could be a top contender. She is a respected technocrat who joined the transit agency in 2004 and has taken a prominent role in touting the subway recovery.
> 
> Mr. Byford had developed a cult following among transit enthusiasts, who plastered stickers with his face on street posts with the slogan: “Train Daddy Loves You Very Much.” He could often be found greeting riders at stations with a huge smile and focused attention on the needs of disabled New Yorkers. He even once grabbed a broom to help clean a flooded station.
> 
> When Mr. Byford’s future seemed uncertain in April, Corey Johnson, the City Council speaker posted on Twitter: “Losing Andy would be a tremendous loss. In Andy We Trust.”
> 
> On Thursday, Mr. Johnson posted a one-word reaction on Twitter: “DEVASTATED.”
> 
> Transit advocates immediately raised concerns about his departure, calling it “a terrible day for riders.”
> 
> “It’s an unfortunate and predictable outcome when you have M.T.A. leadership that work in a highly politicized environment,” said Rachael Fauss, a senior research analyst at Reinvent Albany, a watchdog group. “It’s going to be extremely difficult for the M.T.A. to bounce back from this, it’s going to be challenging to find someone capable who will work in this environment.”
> 
> Mr. Byford came to New York after leading the subway in Toronto, where he won an award for transit system of the year from the American Public Transportation Association. He has also worked on both London and Sydney’s transit networks.
> 
> The Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which oversees the subway and buses, is facing a major financial crisis that could deepen if there is a recession. Transit leaders are planning to cut hundreds of workers and they have considered service cuts.
> 
> At the same time, subway officials are planning an ambitious effort to modernize the system after Mr. Cuomo convinced state lawmakers to approve congestion pricing, a plan to toll drivers entering Manhattan to raise $15 billion for the transit system.
> 
> Mr. Byford was key to those plans and it remains to be seen whether his successor will be able to carry them out on the same aggressive timeline.
> 
> Mr. Cuomo must deliver on his many promises to fix the subway, said John Raskin, the co-founder of the Riders Alliance, a public transit advocacy group.
> 
> “The future of the transit system hangs in the balance,” Mr. Raskin said.


----------



## Shenkey

We are ****ed


----------



## urbanflight

F*ck you Andrew Cuomo :bash:

Fuc*ing hate that guy (Cuomo) 

How can even New Yorkers vote for trash like that?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1220400772560625665


----------



## Woonsocket54

"*MTA Returns R179 Subway Cars to Service*"

http://www.mta.info/press-release/nyc-transit/mta-returns-r179-subway-cars-service



> . . .
> MTA New York City Transit (NYCT) pulled the R179 cars out of service on January 7 after New York City Transit was notified by Bombardier Transportation of two incidents that had occurred on December 24 and January 3 in which the locking mechanism on the subway car doors was found not to be secure. Upon learning that there was the potential for a broader issue with the car doors from Bombardier, New York City Transit took immediate action to pull the fleet from service and replace them with spare cars that same night, including R-46s on the A, R-32s on the C, and R-143s, R-160s, and R42s on the J.
> 
> Over the course of the past two weeks, third-party engineering firm LTK, New York City Transit, and Bombardier completed inspections and adjustments of all door systems, as well as software upgrades and testing for the entire R179 fleet. This also included certified sign-off of the R179 cars serviceability from LTK. In total, 318 cars, 2,544 doorways and more than 5,000 separate doors were inspected and certified for safety in addition to a successfully deployed software upgrade which provides a redundant safety measure. In addition, test trains were sent throughout the transit system with no passengers on board to further validate that adjustments and upgrades are functioning as designed.
> 
> Approximately 156 R179 trains cars, which serve the A C J and Z lines, re-entered service during the AM rush hour on January 24 – representing 75 percent of the normal Friday rush in-service number. Six trains on the A, nine trains on the C and three trains on the J/Z lines were placed into service. The balance of the fleet will be phased in over the weekend.


----------



## GojiMet86

Word is that Cuomo wants (or wanted) ALL the R42 and R32 trains retired before March 2020, even though the MTA has been planning on keeping about 110 R32 trains until the R211 comes. The R179 fiasco seems to have slowed this idea down.


Tells you how much power the Governor has. I bet that type of daily interference from Coumo was responsible for Byford leaving.


----------



## luacstjh98

^^ You'd think that he'd put some of that power to good use yelling at Bombardier.

Anyway, perhaps "Prince Cuomo killed Train Daddy" is enough to lose him a significant bunch of votes?


----------



## urbanflight

GojiMet86 said:


> Tells you how much power the Governor has. I bet that type of daily interference from Coumo was responsible for Byford leaving.


Cuomo also didn't want to finance Byford's plan to fix the subway.



luacstjh98 said:


> Anyway, perhaps "Prince Cuomo killed Train Daddy" is enough to lose him a significant bunch of votes?


Hopefully, that guy is beyond frustrating and incompetent, amount worst traits.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1220385462247927809


----------



## LukeTheSubwayLover

We gotta get rid of those damn 60's trains asap! They've been with us too long so now they're all dilapidated.


----------



## urbanflight

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1219455919441969152


----------



## BoulderGrad

^^I'ma take that twitter account with a huge grain of salt. It smacks of "a crime happened, therefore crime is way up and society is breaking down!" Need more context on what happened with that train.

There are graffiti artists all over the world who work in teams and can paint an entire train while it waits at a stop and then disappear before cops show up. Here's some of them working in Berlin:


----------



## Woonsocket54

"*MTA to Replace Deepest Elevator in System at 191 St. on 1 Line*"

http://www.mta.info/press-release/nyc-transit/mta-replace-deepest-elevator-system-191-st-1-line

The elevator outage begins 2020.02.01 and will last for a year. The station will continue operating, and a shuttle bus will be set up (bus M191) to allow folks to get around between the two sides of the neighborhood, which are at different elevations and are typically traversed using the elevator and corridor.

https://new.mta.info/system_modernization/uptownelevators/191st1


----------



## GojiMet86

*MTA R42*

The R179 trains are coming back into service, so it seems that the R42 will finally retire......maybe.


















IMG_3741 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3753 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3765 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3770 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3806 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3809 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3813 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3847 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3850 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3859 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3867 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_3870 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


----------



## urbanflight

BoulderGrad said:


> ^^I'ma take that twitter account with a huge grain of salt. It smacks of "a crime happened, therefore crime is way up and society is breaking down!" Need more context on what happened with that train.
> 
> There are graffiti artists all over the world who work in teams and can paint an entire train while it waits at a stop and then disappear before cops show up. Here's some of them working in Berlin:


Well here is the report from an official news chaine. There have being multiples grafitis crimes recently. 

1st-.Vandalism





2nd-. Vandalism


----------



## Woonsocket54

Longwood Avenue station on the "6" train in the Bronx is in the process of being rehabilitated. The station opened 101 years ago.

The Pelham Bay Park-bound platform is nearly done with renovations. It closed for renovations on 2019.10.28.

https://new.mta.info/system_modernization/servicechanges/longwoodavnorth

After that platform reopens within the next few days, the Manhattan-bound platform will close for renovations (closing at 5 am on 2020.02.03) until spring 2020.

https://new.mta.info/system_modernization/servicechanges/longwood-av-south

The station is decrepit and has water leaks, among other issues. "6" trains will pass through without stopping at the closed platform.


----------



## Tower Dude

urbanflight said:


> Well here is the report from an official news chaine. There have being multiples grafitis crimes recently.


This happens all the time they pull the train when they can to clean it, for whatever reason there has been a sustained campaign by the NYC Press and NYPD to dogwhistle at the people who fled the city decades ago (and their progeny) that they were right to do so. It's weird as hell to me why they would put so much effort into this unless they were trying to delegitimize the city and it's inhabitants as, the other. 

Also if the NYPD feels so passionately about security in the storage yards, they should assign some of those 500 new cops they got for the system to patrol them. Almost like they don't care and just want justification to go and knock some skulls of some brown kids.


----------



## Farzad_Ansarian

Hello SkyscraperCity


----------



## GojiMet86

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/03/nyregion/cuomo-andy-byford-mta.html






> *How a Clash of Egos Became Bigger Than Fixing the Subway*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even as New York transit emerged from a crisis, a feud grew between Andy Byford, the subway leader, and his boss, Gov. Andrew Cuomo.
> 
> By Jim Dwyer
> 
> Feb. 3, 2020 Updated 9:06 a.m. ET
> 
> 
> One day in October, three powerful figures in New York affairs met for a serious lunch at Fraunces Tavern in Lower Manhattan.
> 
> On one side were Patrick J. Foye, the chairman of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, and Kathryn S. Wylde, the president of the Partnership for New York City, which represents business leaders.
> 
> In front of them sat Andy Byford, the head of the city’s subway and buses, who had beguiled New Yorkers in less than two years with his spirited efforts to turn around a transit system in crisis.
> 
> One day earlier, though, Mr. Byford had submitted a scorching letter of resignation that detailed grievances with his ultimate boss, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo, including complaints that micromanaging by the governor and his office was making it impossible for him to do his job.
> 
> By the end of lunch, Mr. Foye and Ms. Wylde had calmed Mr. Byford, sketching out a deal that kept him in place and made the harsh letter disappear, according to three people familiar with the October events.
> 
> In truth, the Byford-Cuomo relationship was already beyond salvage, and late last month, Mr. Byford resigned. It was a startling development, and to many of his admirers, a worrying stumble at the nation’s largest transportation system, where a historic rebuilding program is underway.
> 
> Behind a curtain of measured statements was a low-decibel, slow-motion collision between two of New York’s most commanding personalities — supremely confident figures, gifted at public relations, masters not only of their domains but fluent in each other’s as well.
> 
> Mr. Cuomo understands how a switch on a railroad track makes things happen just as Mr. Byford knows the power of a clause in a 2,000-word piece of legislation.
> 
> Mr. Byford had arrived in New York in January 2018 as Mr. Cuomo was bluntly asserting his XL temperament and political know-how in transit affairs, a first for any governor in the half-century of the M.T.A.’s existence and a direct response to the public’s demand that he be accountable for failing service.
> 
> Yet the two men almost never spoke. They clashed through proxies. Over the course of the past year, a series of slights — accidental, calculated, impulsive, imagined — drove a schism between them, according to numerous interviews with government officials, transit executives and business leaders.
> 
> “Andy Byford won the hearts of New Yorkers with his clear intention to make this the best transit system in the world,” Ms. Wylde said. “But it was naïve of him to think that this governor, who has put his credibility on the line, would rely on any one person to do the job.”
> 
> Neither Mr. Byford nor Mr. Cuomo has had a cross word for the other in public, before or after the resignation. But even before the October letter, Mr. Byford had threatened to quit on more than one occasion.
> 
> Reached late last week, Mr. Byford said he was grateful to Mr. Cuomo for bringing him to New York. The subway system last month had an on-time rate of 84 percent, he said, up from 58 percent in 2018.
> 
> “I get the attention, but a good leader builds a good team,” Mr. Byford said. “I will have failed if it all falls apart when I leave, but I’ve left it in good hands, with a good plan.”
> 
> Mr. Cuomo said Mr. Byford’s departure would not hobble the system’s recovery. “There has been amazing progress made at the M.T.A. with new laws, financing and its reorganization,” the governor said. ‎“All arrows are pointed up and with new projects coming on line and new resources, the best lies ahead.”
> 
> The governor has said he did not want Mr. Byford to leave, but behind the scenes, the distance between the two men widened through the past year.
> 
> Mr. Byford’s underlings would be summoned to the governor’s office on Third Avenue in Manhattan for interrogation by Mr. Cuomo about cleaning procedures, signal changes, fare evasion and construction projects. He chewed many of them out. Few spoke back, even when he was mistaken.
> 
> Mr. Byford was never invited.......


----------



## Woonsocket54

The MTA is currently in the midst of a major project known as "42 St Connection." The multifaceted process includes two major upgrades - an expansion and simplification of the Times Square-Grand Central Shuttle and the underground connection between the Times Square and Bryant Park subway stations.

At the Times Square station of the "Shuttle", the improvement involves getting rid of the complicated multi-platform layout and creating a 28-foot-wide island platform for the Shuttle. This will expand rush-hour capacity by 20%. There will also be wider street stairs, a new elevator and larger fare-control areas.

http://www.mta.info/press-release/m...42-st-connection-project-along-42-st-corridor









https://books.google.com/books?id=0...g Conference: 2019 Proceedings google&f=false

The east end of this platform would provide a connection to the so-called Durst Passageway running through the basement of the Bank of America building. That will connect to the Bryant Park subway station, serving the B/D/F/M/7 trains. That means the Times Square subway station complex, already the largest in the city, will expand dramatically such that it covers:


16 subway lines - A/B/C/D/E/F/M/N/Q/R/S/W/1/2/3/7
20 tracks
11 platforms (including 2 for the "7" train, at each of Times Square and Bryant Park stations

You can even see on the current layout how the eastern end of the current Times Square "Shuttle" platforms is already about equidistant to 6th and 7th avenues. Construction of the connection between Times Square and Bryant Park stations begins this month.








https://new.mta.info/document/856

It will be possible to walk within the underground paid-fare zone from as far northwest as 44th St/8th Ave to as far southeast as 40th St/6th Ave (and even further outside the paid area underground to 39th St/6th Ave). 

The new wide Times Square "Shuttle" platform will look like this (notice how the left "Exit" sign also directs passengers to the B/D/F/M lines under 6th Ave):

Times Square: Expanded Shuttle platform by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr
Times Square: Expanded Shuttle passage area by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr
Times Square: New fare control and stair area for Shuttle by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Here are renderings of expanded exit area at Grand Central - if I recall correctly, there will also be a subway exit via the One Vanderbilt Avenue tower that is currently under construction to the west of the station. The Grand Hyatt just east of the railway station will soon be demolished, so there may be even further exit capacity on that end when the replacement tower is built. In any case, the current works involve 12 widened platform stairwells and five brand new stairs. The 22,000 sq-ft. Shuttle platform will be the widest platform in the entire NYC subway system.

Grand Central: New escalators and elevator by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr
Grand Central: New mezzanine to street stair by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr
Grand Central: New stair to Terminal by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr
Grand Central: New street elevator by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr
Grand Central: Expanded Shuttle platform by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr
Grand Central: New fare control area by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


----------



## hkskyline

All 46&#x27;s by Matt Csenge, on Flickr


----------



## GojiMet86

Yesterday, the MTA had to suspend all open and elevated sections of the system. Trains ran only in the underground sections because of Hurricane Isaias.

From the official MTA Flickr page:

MTA Deploys Thousands of Personnel to Repair Storm Damage from Tropical Storm Isaias by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

MTA Deploys Thousands of Personnel to Repair Storm Damage from Tropical Storm Isaias by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

MTA Deploys Thousands of Personnel to Repair Storm Damage from Tropical Storm Isaias by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

MTA Deploys Thousands of Personnel to Repair Storm Damage from Tropical Storm Isaias by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


----------



## hkskyline

Sep 14 - New York Transit Mask Initiative

MTA Announces $50 Fine for Refusal to Wear a Mask on Public Transit by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

MTA Chairman Pat Foye Distributes Masks on NYC Transit Subways by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

MTA Chairman Pat Foye Distributes Masks on NYC Transit Subways by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


----------



## hkskyline

* Arrest Made In ‘A’ Train Derailment In Manhattan; MTA Working To Restore Normal Service For Monday *
CBS _Excerpt_
Sep 20, 2020

An “A” train jumped the tracks Sunday morning at Manhattan’s 14th Street station near Eighth Avenue.

Three riders were hurt, but each injury was described as minor.

It is believed a man placed something metal on the tracks at around 8:15 a.m. as the train, with 135 people on board, was approaching the station, CBS2’s Dave Carlin reported.

Metropolitan Transportation Authority Chief Safety Officer Patrick Warren said the incident appears to be “some form of vandalism.”

Police sources told CBS2’s Kiran Dhillon on Sunday night the suspect, identified as 30-year-old Demetrius Harvard of the Bronx, is emotionally disturbed and homeless. He spent hours in police custody and was eventually charged with reckless endangerment, criminal mischief, assault and criminal trespass.

More : Arrest Made In 'A' Train Derailment In Manhattan; MTA Working To Restore Normal Service For Monday

_MTA photos_ :

Derailment of &quot;A&quot; Train at 14 St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Derailment of &quot;A&quot; Train at 14 St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Derailment of &quot;A&quot; Train at 14 St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Derailment of &quot;A&quot; Train at 14 St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Derailment of &quot;A&quot; Train at 14 St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Derailment of &quot;A&quot; Train at 14 St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Derailment of &quot;A&quot; Train at 14 St by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


----------



## RyukyuRhymer

MTA board to formally ban pooping in subways and buses


The MTA board on Wednesday is set to formalize a rule that bans defecating on the city’s subways, buses and transit facilities.




www.nydailynews.com


----------



## hkskyline

* A year of free subway rides for a man who chased down and captured train derailment suspect *
CNN _Excerpt_
Sep 24, 2020

After chasing down and capturing a suspect allegedly responsible for derailing a subway train, one man gets a year of free rides, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority said Wednesday.

"Rikien Wilder's actions to ensure this suspect could not repeat the heinous crime somewhere else likely saved the lives of fellow New Yorkers, something you cannot put a price on," said Sarah Feinberg, New York City Transit Interim President. "With his birthday coming on October 1, the best way we could think to thank Rikein for his heroism is a year of free unlimited subway and bus rides."

Rikien Wilder was at the 14th street station in New York on Sunday morning when he saw a man putting debris on the tracks to cause a derailment, according to a MTA press release. Wilder jumped down onto the track to grab the impediments just before the train arrived safely in the station, the release said.

But as he went to notify MTA personnel, Wilder saw the man once again putting debris on a track and causing a derailment, the release said. All 135 passengers on board that train disembarked without injuries, but emergency crews worked through the night to repair and replace hundreds of feet of damage, according to the release.

Wilder chased the suspect down as he attempted to flee the scene and held him until authorities arrived, the release said.

More : A year of free subway rides for a man who chased down and captured train derailment suspect


----------



## hkskyline

* Subway mask wearing was dropping until $50 fines began, MTA says *
New York Post _Excerpt_
Oct 7, 2020

Subway mask usage dipped over the summer as ridership increased in August and September — but rose again after a $50 fine was instituted for scofflaws, the MTA said Wednesday.

The agency’s most recent survey of subway ridership found 95 percent mask compliance on subways, up from 87 percent in late July and early August.

Mask usage on buses, meanwhile, increase from 94 percent to 97 percent, the Oct. 2 survey found. The financial penalties began Sept. 14.

More : Subway mask wearing was dropping until $50 fines began, MTA says


----------



## WillBuild

The MTA released a live subway map at map.mta.info that even includes live trains if you zoom in. Very cool.









See also this Gothamist article.



> Work & Co., who worked on the project pro bono, created the actual map, which currently works as a standalone site you can access here on your phone or desktop, but not (yet) in the MTA's app. If you pinch your fingers together, it offers a zoomed out view of the various lines aligning with the standard 1979 Michael Hertz map; if you drag your fingers apart on your phone, you can zoom in and see the trains actually moving in a map that includes aspects of the very popular 1972 Vignelli map.


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## Fabio1976

Will be restored the 24/7 subway service?


----------



## Buffaboy

WillBuild said:


> The MTA released a live subway map at map.mta.info that even includes live trains if you zoom in. Very cool.
> View attachment 646608
> 
> 
> See also this Gothamist article.


very cool, but they have some work to do to make it stabilized.


----------



## LTA1992

Buffaboy said:


> very cool, but they have some work to do to make it stabilized.


Well it's a beta, so the more people complain, the better it will get. I've noticed that ever since Sarah Meyer took her position, things on the MTAs digital end have gotten much better. MyMTA has been mostly amazing since Go and this needs to be integrated. They said they're gonna look into that possibility in a direct response to my inquiry on Facebook when they revealed it.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone in that office was already working on it. Sarah and her team have been phenomenal since day one.


----------



## hkskyline

* MTA chairman blasts NYPD for ‘unacceptable’ drop in subway arrests *
New York Post _Excerpt_
Oct 28, 2020

The MTA is blaming the NYPD for rising subway crime rates — accusing cops of failing to show up when riders need them most.

NYPD stats from the first nine months of 2020 show dramatic drops in police activity on the subway, even as underground crimes continue despite depleted ridership.

Arrests are down 63.5 percent year-over-year, while summonses are down 60 percent. The drops are even more dramatic for the month of September, when arrests and summonses were down 79.6 and 87.7 percent, respectively, compared to 12 months prior.

More : MTA chairman blasts NYPD for ‘unacceptable’ drop in subway arrests


----------



## fkus

hkskyline said:


> * MTA chairman blasts NYPD for ‘unacceptable’ drop in subway arrests *
> New York Post _Excerpt_
> Oct 28, 2020
> 
> The MTA is blaming the NYPD for rising subway crime rates — accusing cops of failing to show up when riders need them most.
> 
> NYPD stats from the first nine months of 2020 show dramatic drops in police activity on the subway, even as underground crimes continue despite depleted ridership.
> 
> Arrests are down 63.5 percent year-over-year, while summonses are down 60 percent. The drops are even more dramatic for the month of September, when arrests and summonses were down 79.6 and 87.7 percent, respectively, compared to 12 months prior.
> 
> More : MTA chairman blasts NYPD for ‘unacceptable’ drop in subway arrests


Unbelievable! We are at the rock bottom!


----------



## GojiMet86

I took these back in September. It is just about official that the R32 is retired.



Chambers Street finally has elevators.

IMG_6268 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6269 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6270 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6271 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6272 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6273 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6274 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6275 by GojiMet86, on Flickr














IMG_6276 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6277 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6282 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6289 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6293 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6297 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6300 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6311 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6316 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6318 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6320 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6321 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6323 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6324 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6325 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


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## JohnDee

ugly old cattle cars, lol. good riddance to those old trains that look like something out of war time europe -- pretty disgusting that they remained in service so long.


----------



## JohnDee

NY needs to renovate all its major stations to the modern standard faster. They seem way too sloowww. My god. At least do the major busiest stations in Manhattan that leave the biggest impression on visitors who frown upon the subway's general appearance. That should be done, no question. The image of the NY subway needs to be modernized.


----------



## WillBuild

The D runs on the F and the F runs on the D? Are they just trolling now?

Nope. This is a really nice explanatory video from the MTA.


----------



## JohnDee

There has been a lot of horrendously weird crimes on the subway recently, I've been looking at NY local news. They better get their act together and deal with crime, because that's just going to chase people away from the city long term. 

I hope they fund the 2nd part of the SAS too.. Maybe Joe getting in will help push that forwards.


----------



## GojiMet86




----------



## prageethSL

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1336698427632128001


----------



## MrAronymous

They have ordered them...


----------



## GojiMet86

Well technically, the New York City subway already had articulated trains......

......Back in 1930s......so yeah......

The D-Type, or the Triplex, was the first articulated subway in the US. It was ordered by the BMT before the City took over, and was the only one to be ordered in substantial numbers. The BMT also ordered experimental multi-section trains, including the Zephyr and Green Hornet (all of which were sadly scrapped). But in typical American fashion, nothing innovative happened for the next 90 years.


*BMT D-Type Triplex:*

IMG_0651 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


*BMT Pullman Green Hornet:*











*BMT Clark Equipment Company Bluebird:*











*BMT Pullman Multi-Section:*











*BMT Budd Zephyr:
















*


----------



## hkskyline

Bronx El by Matt Csenge, on Flickr


----------



## dariustolkowski

lkstrknb said:


> Why can't we have subway trains that are fully walk through with open gangways between cars. It really increases capacity, since all the space between cars can be filled with standing passengers. It seems like metro trains like this are everywhere except the US!


These trainsets are not just more convenient and friendly from commuters' perspective, in crisis situation it is a whole lot easier to proceed with evacuation plan as well. Even simple emergency brake activation triggers a long walk through all but the entire trainset, whereas conductors are forced to open/close car doors on their way. It is a safe bet here they don't like it, not to mention extra time is added in a critical moment as such.


----------



## GojiMet86

MTA saved no money by closing overnight subway service, transit officials admit


The cash-strapped agency has not saved a cent by closing the subway to passengers from 1-5 a.m. each night since May 6, transit officials admitted Tuesday during a budget hearing with state lawmakers.




www.nydailynews.com







> *MTA saved no money by closing overnight subway service, transit officials admit*
> By CLAYTON GUSE
> NEW YORK DAILY NEWS |
> JAN 26, 2021 AT 12:04 PM
> 
> MTA stands for “Money Thrown Away” during the overnight shutdown of the city’s subways.
> The cash-strapped agency has not saved a cent by closing the subway to passengers from 1-5 a.m. each night since May 6, transit officials admitted Tuesday during a budget hearing with state lawmakers.
> The closures have instead cost the Metropolitan Transportation Authority even more money, in part because overnight subway trains run on the same schedules as before the closure, but only cops and transit workers are allowed to board.
> “That was not done as a cost-saving effort,” said MTA chief financial officer Bob Foran. “We are still running trains to get our workforce back and forth and we are running buses to help our passengers and our customers to move.”
> MTA officials in 2020 issued at least $371 million worth of emergency contracts to hire private contractors to disinfect transit facilities during the pandemic. Some of that cleaning has been done overnight while the subway is closed to the public.
> The agency has also spent extra cash on what interim NYC Transit president Sarah Feinberg described Tuesday as “robust overnight bus service” to help move straphangers left stranded by the shutdown.........


----------



## dariustolkowski

It was basically meant for cleaning purposes or limiting homeless presence as some pointed out. Still at least the payroll should be lower since the regular service is not running.


----------



## Tcmetro

dariustolkowski said:


> It was basically meant for cleaning purposes or limiting homeless presence as some pointed out. Still at least the payroll should be lower since the regular service is not running.


They had to run a full overnight service because there's not enough room to store all the trains in the yards. They still allowed cops to ride the overnight service. I heard they eventually just let the homeless ride all night as well because they don't have anywhere to go, but that could have just been a rumor.


----------



## dariustolkowski

That could be very well the case sine the subway is essentially the best thing to get around the town even at night even for cops. In addition, nobody sees a damn thing, everything is conveniently underground out of sight. This is like another estate on the top of everything else in the city burning as much electricity as the entire city of Buffalo.


----------



## Fabio1976

504 ghost trains (with only cops and transit workers) between 1am and 5am. NYC needs a 24/7 subway service above all for the normal riders.


----------



## dariustolkowski

Fabio1976 said:


> 504 ghost trains (with only cops and transit workers) between 1am and 5am. NYC needs a 24/7 subway service above all for the normal riders.


Transit calculus in the city comes with its own equation.


----------



## hkskyline

NYC Subway by Rich L. Wang, on Flickr


----------



## dariustolkowski

'People should be alarmed': air pollution in US subway systems stuns researchers — Guardian US


Riders in major cities, especially New York, encounter particle quantities well above safe levels




apple.news





It turns out that the New York City subway system air is full of toxins. Above seven times the national average. I am glad that I am wearing my mask, which I am gonna continue to wear well into the future.


----------



## dylan345

dariustolkowski said:


> 'People should be alarmed': air pollution in US subway systems stuns researchers — Guardian US
> 
> 
> Riders in major cities, especially New York, encounter particle quantities well above safe levels
> 
> 
> 
> 
> apple.news
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It turns out that the New York City subway system air is full of toxins. Above seven times the national average. I am glad that I am wearing my mask, which I am gonna continue to wear well into the future.


Interesting. I wonder what the source of all the particulate matter is. The article doesn't really say.

If the air quality is truly as bad as the article says, it seems these findings should reignite discussion of retrofitting stations for platforms screen doors. Ceiling height doors would largely eliminate this problem. 

My understanding is that there are lots of engineering issues with installing ceiling height PSDs in the subway though.


----------



## MrAronymous

My main guess would be breaking dust and lack of proper ventilation.


----------



## dariustolkowski

This is certainly a multilayered issue requiring further analysis followed by some real life solutions. Let’s hope that some fix is on its way sooner than later.


----------



## Shenkey

dylan345 said:


> Interesting. I wonder what the source of all the particulate matter is. The article doesn't really say.
> 
> If the air quality is truly as bad as the article says, it seems these findings should reignite discussion of retrofitting stations for platforms screen doors. Ceiling height doors would largely eliminate this problem.
> 
> My understanding is that there are lots of engineering issues with installing ceiling height PSDs in the subway though.


Nothing new, here is another example





Subscribe to read | Financial Times


News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




www.ft.com




System is old, it has terrible ventilation, it is hard to clean and is hardly ever cleaned.

To lower the pollution you would need to:

Make tunnel walls smother - to be able to clean them
Fix up the rail base to enable simple access for cleaning
Improve drainage in the tunnels - that way you wash & scrub the tunnel with machines
Adding platform doors that totally seal the tunnel would help immensely.


----------



## hkskyline

* MTA brings celebrity voices to NYC transit announcements *
_Excerpt_ 
Feb 13, 2021

NEW YORK (AP) — Riders on New York City subways and buses are getting an earful, thanks to some famous hometown voices.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority on Friday launched a campaign that has celebrities including Jerry Seinfeld, Whoopi Goldberg and Awkwafina making the announcements heard at subway stations, on trains and buses.

The MTA said the announcements will run for at least a month, and highlight the importance of mask-wearing and other coronavirus pandemic safety measures.

More : MTA brings celebrity voices to NYC transit announcements


----------



## speedy1979

dylan345 said:


> Interesting. I wonder what the source of all the particulate matter is. The article doesn't really say.
> 
> If the air quality is truly as bad as the article says, it seems these findings should reignite discussion of retrofitting stations for platforms screen doors. Ceiling height doors would largely eliminate this problem.
> 
> My understanding is that there are lots of engineering issues with installing ceiling height PSDs in the subway though.


Steel dust is the primary source. (Ever notice how subway rails look polished) The interaction between the train wheels and rails has a polishing effect. Steel dust corrodes while airborne which is partly responsible for the characteristic smell of the subway.


----------



## Shenkey

hkskyline said:


> * MTA brings celebrity voices to NYC transit announcements *
> _Excerpt_
> Feb 13, 2021
> 
> NEW YORK (AP) — Riders on New York City subways and buses are getting an earful, thanks to some famous hometown voices.
> 
> The Metropolitan Transportation Authority on Friday launched a campaign that has celebrities including Jerry Seinfeld, Whoopi Goldberg and Awkwafina making the announcements heard at subway stations, on trains and buses.
> 
> The MTA said the announcements will run for at least a month, and highlight the importance of mask-wearing and other coronavirus pandemic safety measures.
> 
> More : MTA brings celebrity voices to NYC transit announcements


That is what we needed to spend money on. 

Not on 24/7 service, signaling or station renovations.


----------



## GojiMet86

Some recent photos and videos from the last 6 months.


























IMG_6970 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6973 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_6977 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7004 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7014 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7029 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7075 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7097 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7336 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7483 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7486 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7604 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7607 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7609 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7681 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7686 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7692 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7697 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7702 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7732 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7774 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7781 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7789 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7801 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7808 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7810 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7817 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_7825 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


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## GojiMet86

The R211 has arrived on MTA property!

A DJ Hammers video:


----------



## fkus

GojiMet86 said:


> The R211 has arrived on MTA property!
> 
> A DJ Hammers video:


Do you know which subway line will receive them?


----------



## GojiMet86

The R211 being unveiled moved:

Mr. Railfan videos:













Photos from the MTA's flickr page:

First of New R211 Subway Cars Arrive for Testing by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

First of New R211 Subway Cars Arrive for Testing by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

First of New R211 Subway Cars Arrive for Testing by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

First of New R211 Subway Cars Arrive for Testing by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

First of New R211 Subway Cars Arrive for Testing by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

First of New R211 Subway Cars Arrive for Testing by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

First of New R211 Subway Cars Arrive for Testing by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

First of New R211 Subway Cars Arrive for Testing by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

First of New R211 Subway Cars Arrive for Testing by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


----------



## speedy1979

So the open gangway components will be installed later right?


----------



## dariustolkowski

Tancred said:


> The Yamanote Line in Tokyo runs 11 cars trains of about 200m in length


Indeed, subway train sets are darn long in Tokyo. Those here in New York on the A line are not that long after all. Not to mention that subway cars in Tokyo are typically packed in every sense of the word.


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## GojiMet86

speedy1979 said:


> So the open gangway components will be installed later right?


Not that I'm aware.

This train is the R211A, which will be a normal NYC train, without a gangway. The R211S for Staten Island will be the same.

The R211T portion of the order will be the gangway trains.


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## coth

GojiMet86 said:


> The R211 has arrived on MTA property!
> 
> A DJ Hammers video:


It would be much easier if they connect some depot to railways.


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## dariustolkowski

^^^ You mean like regular train tracks? That would require some serious financing, instead it is much more cost effective to load train cars on a tuck and transport them over the GWB to NYC. I see it done all the time.


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## BoulderGrad

coth said:


> It would be much easier if they connect some depot to railways.


Then you fall under the jurisdiction of the FRA, and they have some very serious regulation compared to city subways. The PATH system runs afoul of this since their tracks share space with regular railways.


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## dariustolkowski

It’s already quite costly to run subway system in the city without federal compliance overhead, most likely signaling systems and access to most train stations would be up for change and modifications overnight.


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## coth

You don't need any different signaling. Just couple it with loco. Gauge is same and trains are not wider. You only need one track in subway depot to accept wider locos. And you don't need to connect any single depot. Just one or two can have a gate where trains will be prepared to further delivery on their own or with subway loco.


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## OOOPS

coth said:


> It would be much easier if they connect some depot to railways.





coth said:


> You don't need any different signaling. Just couple it with loco. Gauge is same and trains are not wider. You only need one track in subway depot to accept wider locos. And you don't need to connect any single depot. Just one or two can have a gate where trains will be prepared to further delivery on their own or with subway loco.


I've seen a similar case where I live (upgrading of 98 trains of São Paulo Metro), and loading trains on trucks was a better option (less costly) than using existing railway tracks and the only connection at Belém depot, it didn't matter if the factory plant was near (old D Stock/new L Stock: Alstom's Lapa plant is less than 9 miles/13 km far within city limits, delivering made by CPTM, also owned by the government) or far (old C Stock/new K Stock: T'Trans plant at Três Rios/RJ State is almost 240 miles/390 km far in another city and state, delivering made by MRS, a private freght operator)


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## dariustolkowski

coth said:


> You don't need any different signaling. Just couple it with loco. Gauge is same and trains are not wider. You only need one track in subway depot to accept wider locos. And you don't need to connect any single depot. Just one or two can have a gate where trains will be prepared to further delivery on their own or with subway loco.


Actually, NYC subway system is unique in many its own ways. The contemporary matrix of tunnels, underwater tubes, elevated sections is the product of primarily three different systems (more or less since for example the L line was originally constructed in its own right - once it was even a bit longer, this line was slated for demolition in the eighties of past century, quite unimaginable these days).

To the point now, lettered line tunnels tend to be wider from the ones where numbered lines are routed. So gauge is technically the same but the tunnels no so much. Welcome to the NYC, the city that never sleeps.

By the way, the manufacturer is in most instances responsible for the actual delivery of rolling stock. This way, the city has less of a headache on its own end. Efficiencies drive economics on every level in the USA.


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## coth

dariustolkowski said:


> To the point now, lettered line tunnels tend to be wider from the ones where numbered lines are routed. So gauge is technically the same but the tunnels no so much.


You deliever trains by railways to some deport, where they are being prepared for further delivery by their own or with subway loco.


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## hkskyline

New Kids on the Block by Matt Csenge, on Flickr


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## Soriehlam

GojiMet86 said:


> The R211 being unveiled moved:
> 
> Mr. Railfan videos:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photos from the MTA's flickr page:
> 
> First of New R211 Subway Cars Arrive for Testing by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr
> 
> First of New R211 Subway Cars Arrive for Testing by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr
> 
> First of New R211 Subway Cars Arrive for Testing by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr
> 
> First of New R211 Subway Cars Arrive for Testing by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr
> 
> First of New R211 Subway Cars Arrive for Testing by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr
> 
> First of New R211 Subway Cars Arrive for Testing by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr
> 
> First of New R211 Subway Cars Arrive for Testing by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr
> 
> First of New R211 Subway Cars Arrive for Testing by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr
> 
> First of New R211 Subway Cars Arrive for Testing by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


Damn man, this is beautiful.


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## Woonsocket54

The effect of the hiring freeze.









Subway Trips Canceled Over Staff Shortages Soar to a Pandemic High







www.thecity.nyc


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## GojiMet86

The subway at this moment:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413234413337563138

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413235198448259075


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## dariustolkowski

^^^ Pretty normal situation at this train station once heavy rain hits. MTA claimed to install additional utility pumps for water removal. There was some power failure and these utility pumps never saw action. Pretty sad. People got trapped.


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## dariustolkowski

Woonsocket54 said:


> The effect of the hiring freeze.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Subway Trips Canceled Over Staff Shortages Soar to a Pandemic High
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thecity.nyc


Unfortunately, it was not wonderful on the A line in the Washington Heights even before the pandemic hit. I personally recall being stuck and waiting for the next available train over at 168th train station. Somehow nearly all A trains ended their trip up there. No uptown service, no any sort of announcements. These days is even tougher.


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## GojiMet86

IMG_0841 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0909 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_8895 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_8950 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_8973 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9057 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9100 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9137 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9140 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9293 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9445 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9449 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9577 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_9673 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0282 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0423 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0445 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_0538 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


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## hkskyline

*MTA to give overhaul work of 1,000 NYC subway cars to private company *
July 10, 2021
New York Daily News _Excerpt_

The MTA is set to issue a high-priced contract to a private company for the overhaul of heating and air conditioning systems on more than 1,000 subway cars — a job that’s historically been done by the agency’s in-house workforce.

NYC Transit has a shortage of car mechanics due to a hiring freeze put in place during the pandemic — and the subway’s repair shops are packed to the gills as crews overhaul other cars, transit officials said.

That’s left the Metropolitan Transportation Authority with a sticky wicket when it comes to its fleet of R160 cars, which run on the subway’s lettered lines.

More : MTA to give overhaul work of 1,000 NYC subway cars to private company


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## dariustolkowski

What a break with long-standing tradition!


----------



## coth

GojiMet86 said:


> The subway at this moment:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413234413337563138
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413235198448259075


Why didn't they just close the station?


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## GojiMet86

dariustolkowski said:


> Unfortunately, it was not wonderful on the A line in the Washington Heights even before the pandemic hit. I personally recall being stuck and waiting for the next available train over at 168th train station. Somehow nearly all A trains ended their trip up there. No uptown service, no any sort of announcements. These days is even tougher.





dariustolkowski said:


> ^^^ Pretty normal situation at this train station once heavy rain hits. MTA claimed to install additional utility pumps for water removal. There was some power failure and these utility pumps never saw action. Pretty sad. People got trapped.




This is a pretty interesting response in SubChat:





__





Here's How MTA Is Preparing for Possible Thunderstorms & Heavy Rain Monday 7/12/21







www.subchat.com






"_Posted by *Stephen Bauman *on *Mon Jul 12 16:26:02 2021*, in response to Here's How MTA Is Preparing for Possible Thunderstorms & Heavy Rain Monday 7/12/21, posted by heypaul on Mon Jul 12 15:47:34 2021._

One of the stories I heard concerned some "cost savings" some NYCT execs did with the Sandy funds. These funds were supposed to prevent subway flooding.

They added some storm gates to prevent water from flowing into the subway from the street. These gates were supposed to be remote controlled. Unfortunately, the communications lines to actuate these storm gates were never installed. This was management's great cost saving contribution.

This means that qualified NYCT personnel must be dispatched to each storm gate to close it, in the event of impending overflow from the street."


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## hkskyline

*Train fanatic reveals underground secrets of the NYC Subway labyrinth *
July 13, 2021
New York Post _Excerpt_

The unfathomably complex labyrinth of the New York City Subway is largely a mystery to riders beyond the few stations and routes they use every day.

But its sprawling tentacles — subterranean, open-air and elevated — are as clear as a sunlit pond to Peter Dougherty, 60, an amateur railroad enthusiast who’s been something of a mystery himself.

So self-effacing that he’s never previously been photographed in the media, he might know more about the system than anyone outside the MTA — perhaps more than anyone inside it.

The 2021 edition of his challenging but awe-inspiring book, “Tracks of the New York City Subway,” maps its 691 track miles, 472 stations (the most of any system in the world) and 2,000 track switches in microscopic detail. If you thought signals were as simple as red, yellow and green, wait until you see Page 113. 

“Tracks” should enthrall the growing number of riders who are returning to the subways — 2.5 million in a single day last month, far below pre-pandemic totals of 5.5 million but inching up every week from the 385,000 total in April 2020 and expected to soar after Labor Day. 

More : Train fanatic reveals underground secrets of the NYC Subway labyrinth


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## N830MH

hkskyline said:


> New Kids on the Block by Matt Csenge, on Flickr


Wow! It's so beautiful! New subway R211 car! Can't wait to see it! I bet they will like it very much.


----------



## N830MH

GojiMet86 said:


> The subway at this moment:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413234413337563138
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413235198448259075


OMG!! Flooding! Look at those people! They had to be evacuated from the station immediately!


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## Woonsocket54

Another subway station has been made accessible to persons with disabilities.

Avenue H Station on Q Line Now Fully Accessible by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Avenue H Station on Q Line Now Fully Accessible by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Avenue H Station on Q Line Now Fully Accessible by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Avenue H Station on Q Line Now Fully Accessible by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Avenue H Station on Q Line Now Fully Accessible by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Avenue H Station on Q Line Now Fully Accessible by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Avenue H Station on Q Line Now Fully Accessible by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


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## hkskyline

* MTA to delay fare hikes until 2022, says key Cuomo adviser *
19 July 2021
New York Post _Excerpt_

The MTA will wait until next year to raise transit fares — after a key board appointee of Gov. Andrew Cuomo weighed in Monday against increasing costs for riders.

“There’s not going to be a fare hike in 2021,” Larry Schwartz, the MTA’s finance chair and a key adviser to the governor, told reporters at MTA headquarters Monday afternoon.

“This is the time we need to increase ridership. We need to get everyone back on our buses and our trains and our subways,” Schwartz said.

More : MTA to delay fare hikes until 2022, says key Cuomo adviser


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## streetscapeer

@Woonsocket54 Do you know if there are any plans to continue the station overhauls/revamps (like the ones done on the N line in Astoria; or 163rd, 110th, etc on the C line)?


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## hkskyline

MTA Holds 13th Mask Force Day by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


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## Woonsocket54

streetscapeer said:


> @Woonsocket54 Do you know if there are any plans to continue the station overhauls/revamps (like the ones done on the N line in Astoria; or 163rd, 110th, etc on the C line)?


yes, I think they'll do some on the 7 train in Queens soon:






MTA's Plan To Overhaul Six Stations on 7 Line is Moving Forward - LIC Post


July 6, 2021 By Christian Murray The MTA's plan to overhaul six dilapidated stations along the 7 line is moving forward, the agency told the Queens Post




licpost.com


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## Woonsocket54

The G train will be extended to Coney Island on a few weekends in August.









'Take the G to the Sea': MTA Announces Weekend Service Changes on C, E, F, and G Lines That Will Temporarily Enhance G Service By Extending the Line to Coney Island







new.mta.info


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## streetscapeer

Woonsocket54 said:


> yes, I think they'll do some on the 7 train in Queens soon:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MTA's Plan To Overhaul Six Stations on 7 Line is Moving Forward - LIC Post
> 
> 
> July 6, 2021 By Christian Murray The MTA's plan to overhaul six dilapidated stations along the 7 line is moving forward, the agency told the Queens Post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> licpost.com


thank you!


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## gt670dn

The switching around of E and F seems a bit unnecessary too me. Has someone an idea why they are doing that?


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## Woonsocket54

gt670dn said:


> The switching around of E and F seems a bit unnecessary too me. Has someone an idea why they are doing that?


who even knows if there's a method to their madness?

My guess is that due to scheduling, staffing and/or equipment availability/assignment reasons, they need to keep the geographic lengths of the E and the F approximately the same as they would regularly be. That is to say, from a total line length standpoint, the E terminating at Essex-Delancey is about the same as the E terminating at World Trade Center. Same for the F terminating at Coney Island or Euclid Avenue.

But that doesn't explain why they can't just run the E via 53rd St and 8th Ave and the F via 63rd St and 6th Ave, as they usually do. Especially since it seems the trains can switch tracks at West Fourth Street to their destination (the 8th Ave E would be able to switch at W 4th St to the track that takes it to Essex/Delancey, and the 6th Ave F would be able to switch at W 4th St to the track that takes it to the Cranberry Street Tunnel under the East River (normally used by the A and C)).


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## Woonsocket54

Also, since the F is meant to replace the C in Brooklyn, the MTA perhaps wants the F to mimic the C in Manhattan as well, and that's why the F will run via 8th Avenue and not 6th Avenue as it usually does.


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## Arnorian

The F train is switching to 8th Avenue? Will they recolor it to blue?


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## streetscapeer

Arnorian said:


> The F train is switching to 8th Avenue? Will they recolor it to blue?


no, it's just for two weekends in August


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## 437.001

Hello. 
I'm not used to the NYC Subway thread, so probably this might have already been discussed.

But anyway, after reading the following article about the 2nd Avenue Subway ( *4 little known facts about the new Second Avenue Subway, and phase 2 budgeting – LTV Squad* ), I have some questions.

1) Is the article accurate when it talks about the costs of Phase 2?

2) If yes, why will it be so horrifically expensive, if they've got basically only the part of the tunnels between 105th Street and 106th Street left to build (and there's going to be a station in that unbuilt part), and also the part between 120th Street and Harlem-125th Street?
I say so, because I find that the part of the tunnel that's still left to build isn't really that long at all, and the rest of the tunnel already exists, the only part of it that will have to be remodelled being the space that will be occupied by 116th Street station. What am I missing?

3) Is there any approximative date when New Yorkers could expect the 2nd Avenue line to be extended further north? Or is it just "no date, when it will open, it will open"?

4) When it will be extended northbound, will they open the part between 96th Street station up to Harlem-125th Street in one go, or do you think they might open it by sectors (say, one station at a time), as much of that tunnel is already built?


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## Fenix1981




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## rakcancer

Elevated Queensboro Plaza with subway train.


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## hkskyline

*‘Unprecedented’ NYC subway breakdown sparked by power surge *
_Excerpt_
August 30, 2021 

NEW YORK (AP) — A momentary power surge disrupted half of the New York City subway system for several hours and stranded hundreds of passengers, Gov. Kathy Hochul said Monday.

The unprecedented breakdown affected more than 80 trains on the subway system’s numbered lines plus the L train from shortly after 9 p.m. Sunday to about 1:30 a.m. Monday, Hochul said.

The restoration of service was delayed because passengers on two of the stuck trains walked out onto the tracks by themselves rather than waiting for Metropolitan Transportation Authority workers to help them, Hochul said.

More : 'Unprecedented' NYC subway breakdown sparked by power surge


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## rakcancer

Also OMNY system stopped working on some stations. So either MetroCard or jumping over turnstiles...


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## rakcancer

437.001 said:


> Hello.
> I'm not used to the NYC Subway thread, so probably this might have already been discussed.
> 
> But anyway, after reading the following article about the 2nd Avenue Subway ( *4 little known facts about the new Second Avenue Subway, and phase 2 budgeting – LTV Squad* ), I have some questions.
> 
> 1) Is the article accurate when it talks about the costs of Phase 2?
> 
> 2) If yes, why will it be so horrifically expensive, if they've got basically only the part of the tunnels between 105th Street and 106th Street left to build (and there's going to be a station in that unbuilt part), and also the part between 120th Street and Harlem-125th Street?
> I say so, because I find that the part of the tunnel that's still left to build isn't really that long at all, and the rest of the tunnel already exists, the only part of it that will have to be remodelled being the space that will be occupied by 116th Street station. What am I missing?


Welcome to USA. Getting life saving rabies vaccine shot can cost you easily $4000 without insurance and as much as twice if you have one ! (true, sad story).
The answer for such a high cost of Second Phase of 2nd Ave Project is of course much more complicated. I am not going to write it myself. In the comment section of article you are quoting here there is one pretty good answer. I posted it below. I can only add that from my own experience working not only on Second Avenue Project but on other city projects for MTA I can only confirm what Awaken in his comment says: besides obvious one like complicated construction, dealing with enormous and old network of underground utilities, very expensive in NYC property acquisitions and the fact that it is the only 24h service subway system in the world, there is a huge waste of money and mismanagement at MTA.

Awaken says:
June 16, 2021 at 2:19 PM
Alright I’m going to try to settle some of the discussion here in the comments. lol

The bumper blocks are at approximately 104th St. The cinder block wall is a few dozen feet north of there. Beyond the wall is a few hundred feet of mostly empty tunnel, which would be used in Phase II. It ends just south of 106th St. The plan is to do all cut-and-cover construction from 106th-110th St, where the other ’70s segment starts. The 106th St station would occupy the space of this new cut-and-cover segment.

The plan at the moment is to use the 110th-120th St tunnel, which has continuously been maintained. The segment from 110th-116th would be largely preserved with some renovations, and the segment from 116th-120th would be partially reconstructed and heavily renovated (using cut-and-cover). From what I understand, the depth is not a problem–the roadbed is actually relatively deep at that point. There is already a large ancillary space over the trackways between approximately 117th St and 119th St. The section from 120th St/2nd Ave to 125th/Lex will be mined with a soft-ground TBM, launched from the existing tunnel near 120th St. From Lex-Park, the station will be mined similarly to how the stations were in Phase I, and the tail tracks will be mined with a TBM.

Now as to the high cost…it’s complicated. The plan calls for the acquisition of perhaps a couple dozen properties, including demolition and reconstruction in order to make room for station entrances and ancillary facilities. Reimbursing property owners and tenants will surely be costly. The high cost estimate does seem excessive given that nearly half of the tunnels have been constructed already, but we do have to keep in mind that they have to construct 3 new stations (almost as many as Phase I) and have to bear the expensive cost of deep-bore construction. Also given the similar historical background of East Side Access (half of it was constructed with the 63rd St Tunnel in the ’70s and ’80s) which also had a high price tag just for post-2000s construction (around $12 billion at this point), it comes as no surprise that SAS Phase II would be so costly. All that being said, construction costs in NYC are certainly excessive in the opinion of myself and everyone I’ve talked to. Info that came out of East Side Access serves as a great example of why this is the case. As the New York Times put it, “Supervisors discovered several hundred extra workers on East Side Access, an example of rampant overstaffing on Metropolitan Transportation Authority projects.” If that phrase “extra workers” makes you scratch your head, welcome to New York. Costs are inflated in every way possible with these projects. Even the handrails in the stairwells of emergency exits and maintenance facilities are (subjectively) “fancy,” with lots of extra metal that appears to be aesthetic as opposed to functional. They look like they cost about 4x as much as the normal handrails they use in EEs. I could go on for hours…


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## JHPart

Interesting. I did also not follow well this discussion, because I don't live in the USA, but nice that they want to reopen old subway lines and stations. Are there also other plans to reopen old tunnels and stations? Probably only for a shuttle service?


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## Stuu

JHPart said:


> Interesting. I did also not follow well this discussion, because I don't live in the USA, but nice that they want to reopen old subway lines and stations. Are there also other plans to reopen old tunnels and stations? Probably only for a shuttle service?


The tunnels for the Second Ave subway were built in the 1970s but never completed, so they are not being reopened. The project has been around since at least WW2, with some construction in the 1970s, and then eventually revived in the 2010s.


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## 437.001

Stuu said:


> The tunnels for the Second Ave subway were built in the 1970s but never completed, so they are not being reopened. *The project has been around since at least WW2*, with some construction in the 1970s, and then eventually revived in the 2010s.


For what I've read, since the 1920's.


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## rakcancer

Wednesday flooding video. Subway system was paralyzed. Most of East River crossing services were shut down:


----------



## Woonsocket54

MTA opens new walkway between Times Square and Bryant Park subway stations, revamped shuttle platforms


The connection between subway stations serving Times Square and Bryant Park is adorned with an artsy mosaic display by Chicago-based artist Nick Cave — and provides a free, weather-sheltered walking transfer between Sixth Avenue trains and trains that run beneath Broadway and Seventh and Eighth...




www.nydailynews.com











































__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1435198884771516416


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## stockholm79

I thought the Grand Central stop would get a face lift too with the same tiles and color scheme as 42nd Times square...


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## rakcancer

Interesting piece of history of NYC subway system:


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## Woonsocket54

some more photos of the new connection between Bryant Park station and Times Square station

MTA Celebrates Opening of Brand New 42 Street Shuttle, Launch Welcome Back Campaign by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

MTA Celebrates Opening of Brand New 42 Street Shuttle, Launch Welcome Back Campaign by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

MTA Celebrates Opening of Brand New 42 Street Shuttle, Launch Welcome Back Campaign by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

also, the newly expanded Shuttle platform at Times Square

MTA Celebrates Opening of Brand New 42 Street Shuttle, Launch Welcome Back Campaign by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

MTA Celebrates Opening of Brand New 42 Street Shuttle, Launch Welcome Back Campaign by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

MTA Celebrates Opening of Brand New 42 Street Shuttle, Launch Welcome Back Campaign by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

MTA Celebrates Opening of Brand New 42 Street Shuttle, Launch Welcome Back Campaign by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

MTA Celebrates Opening of Brand New 42 Street Shuttle, Launch Welcome Back Campaign by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

MTA Celebrates Opening of Brand New 42 Street Shuttle, Launch Welcome Back Campaign by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

The Grand Central platform for the Shuttle

MTA Celebrates Opening of Brand New 42 Street Shuttle, Launch Welcome Back Campaign by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

MTA Celebrates Opening of Brand New 42 Street Shuttle, Launch Welcome Back Campaign by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

MTA Celebrates Opening of Brand New 42 Street Shuttle, Launch Welcome Back Campaign by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

MTA Celebrates Opening of Brand New 42 Street Shuttle, Launch Welcome Back Campaign by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

MTA Celebrates Opening of Brand New 42 Street Shuttle, Launch Welcome Back Campaign by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

MTA Celebrates Opening of Brand New 42 Street Shuttle, Launch Welcome Back Campaign by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


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## Woonsocket54

For the first time since the beginning of the pandemic, the subway is seeing 3,000,000+ daily riders.

















Day-by-day ridership numbers


We’re sharing our ridership and traffic data each day to help you understand how many people are using our services in and around New York City.




new.mta.info


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## Woonsocket54

[delete]


----------



## hkskyline

(G)oing the Extra Mile by Matt Csenge, on Flickr


----------



## GojiMet86

Hochul seeks ‘alternatives’ to LaGuardia AirTrain | amNewYork


Governor Kathy Hochul said Monday that she wants the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to look at alternatives to the proposed $2.1 billion LaGuardia




www.amny.com





*Hochul seeks ‘alternatives’ to LaGuardia AirTrain*
By Kevin Duggan

Posted on October 4, 2021

Governor Kathy Hochul said Monday that she wants the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to look at alternatives to the proposed $2.1 billion LaGuardia AirTrain — casting further doubt on the future of the pet project pushed by her disgraced predecessor Andrew Cuomo. 

“New Yorkers deserve world-class transportation to world-class airports. I have asked the Port Authority to thoroughly examine alternative mass transit solutions for reducing car traffic and increasing connectivity to LaGuardia Airport,” Hochul said in an Oct. 4 statement. “We must ensure that our transportation projects are bold, visionary, and serve the needs of New Yorkers. I remain committed to working expeditiously to rebuild our infrastructure for the 21st century and to create jobs – not just at LaGuardia, but at all of our airports and transit hubs across New York.”

The announcement comes after Hochul said last week she would “examine” the plans to build a 2.3-mile elevated rail line between the Queens airport and the Mets-Willets Point stations on the 7 line and the Long Island Rail Road. 

The project got the go-ahead from the Federal Aviation Administration back in July, following Cuomo’s resignation in August, a growing slate of local politicians and advocates have called on Hochul to postpone or derail the pricey people mover entirely.

The project has drawn criticism for not offering a one-seat ride from the airport to Manhattan, and for taking travelers headed to the island the wrong way east before they transfer. 

Other options that would have offered a one-seat ride, but which were dismissed during an environmental review, included extending the N/W subway line, building out better bus service, or launching ferry service. 

Environmentalist and neighborhood advocates took their concerns before the US Court of Appeals and sued the FAA and the Port Authority last month for failing to consider other possible transit options. 

The Port Authority’s executive director Rick Cotton maintained last Thursday during the bi-state agency’s monthly board meeting that the AirTrain was the best way forward due to it not cutting through any residential neighborhoods, but said officials would provide “whatever review Governor Hochul desires.”

Port Authority spokesman Thomas Topousis referred a request for comment back to Cotton’s statements from last week.


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## BoulderGrad

Okay, cool, the Cuomo train is dead. Now what do we want instead?


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## GojiMet86

BoulderGrad said:


> Okay, cool, the Cuomo train is dead. Now what do we want instead?















In all seriousness, I don't have any hope for an extension of the Astoria subway line. The NIMBY power in my neighborhood of Astoria prevented that from happening 20 years ago. Right now it's in sleeping mode but if any such proposal comes forward the beast will awaken again and take the proposal down. A lot of folk, who are older and have stronger connections with the local political powers, are pretty NIMBY.

One day an older acquaintence and I were speaking about trains. She said herself that it would destroy the neighborhood, and many other people in the community didn't want it built. Her much older friend told her she didn't like the exising el.

I call BS on that excuse. Strange too, because now Astoria has many buildings knocked down for more development, but they don't seem to protest these developments or seem to write to their local representatives about it.

It's not like buildings would be demolished for it. At most it would remove parking spots.


----------



## Shenkey

Perfect would be to extend 4/5/6 to LGA under Randals Island and connect to N/W around where ConEd is. Raze whole ConEd complex and build mixed development there.

Extending N/W would also do.


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## BoulderGrad

Shenkey said:


> Perfect would be to extend 4/5/6 to LGA under Randals Island and connect to N/W around where ConEd is. Raze whole ConEd complex and build mixed development there.
> 
> Extending N/W would also do.


Por que no los dos?

In a perfect world, (If we're really going pie in the sky), plow some main line train tracks straight to each airport and build transit centers at their respective "front doors". Run a Hong Kong style direct high-er speed rail line (125mph, let's not get crazy...) from each airport to each main train station in Manhattan. Throw in the above mentioned subway connections, and also link JFK up with ABC, EWR with the New Jersey Transit Mainlines and PATH... Rebuild the airports to have all modern terminals in a sensible arrangement... Rebuild the runways to clear up NYC airspace.... Cure world hunger... Done, dusted...


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## Fabio1976

Stringer wants commuters to catch a ride in 6 mins or less


He's rethinking transit to better serve new commuter habits.




www.ny1.com


----------



## Fabio1976

Stringer wants commuters to catch a ride in 6 mins or less


He's rethinking transit to better serve new commuter habits.




www.ny1.com


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## GojiMet86

Only in the United States and New York can the chair of the transit agency say that a $6.9 BILLION project to add just 3 stations is a "bargain".

Many other countries in the world would be able to build so much more with that money.

And parts of the line were already built in the 1970s, just like the tunnel were they took this photos......










Gov. Hochul sees light at end of NYC’s long-abandoned Second Ave. subway tunnel during tour with MTA chief


Gov. Hochul on Tuesday toured a long-abandoned tunnel beneath Second Ave. in East Harlem that Metropolitan Transportation Authority officials plan to repurpose for the second phase of the Second Ave. subway.




www.nydailynews.com





*Gov. Hochul sees light at end of NYC’s long-abandoned Second Ave. subway tunnel during tour with MTA chief*​By Clayton Guse​November 23, 2021 7:42 PM​​





​





​New York is about to build the world’s most expensive subway line — a project that’s been in the works for a century. Gov. Hochul on Tuesday toured a long-abandoned tunnel beneath Second Ave. in East Harlem that Metropolitan Transportation Authority officials plan to repurpose for the second phase of the Second Ave. subway.​​The tunnel will help extend the Q line from its current northern terminus at Second Ave. and E. 96th St. to E. 125th St. and Lexington Ave. with two new stations in between.​​The old tunnel runs between E. 110th St. and E. 120th St., and was dug in the early 1970s. Work stopped in 1974 amid the city’s financial crisis.​​Extending the Second Ave. Subway 1.6 miles to Harlem will cost an estimated $6.3 billion, say MTA officials.​​That’s $3.9 billion per mile, far and away the highest cost of any subway extension project in the history of the world, according to a study by researchers at New York University’s Marron Institute.​​The price does not include the cost to use debt to finance the project, which brings the total bill to $6.9 billion.​​The MTA has for more than two years awaited movement by the Federal Transit Administration to approve $3.4 billion to get the project going. Hochul on Tuesday said the money would come soon thanks to the infrastructure bill signed by President Biden earlier this month.​​“We think we can get started one year from now,” Hochul said. Acting MTA chairman Janno Lieber said the sky-high price tag was a “bargain.”​​“It will serve, when it opens, as many people as the entire Philadelphia subway system,” said Lieber.​​“Everybody likes to talk about cost, but you’ve got to look at how many people it serves,” he said. “By the standards of riders, this is an incredibly efficient project, especially compared to everything else that comes before the federal government for funding.”​​MTA filings to the feds estimate the construction of the extension will take seven years to finish. If that holds true, trains won’t run beneath Second Ave. in East Harlem until at least the end of 2029.​​“I’m doing it in my terms in office, so it’s going to be a lot less than that,” Hochul said. She hopes the project will be speeded up by the controversial “design-build” contracting method the MTA has since 2019 been required by state law to employ.​​Under design-build, the MTA consolidates design and construction work into a single contract rather than multiple separate contracts. Its impact on speeding up projects is not yet clear.​​Hochul is the ninth governor to hold office since the East Harlem tunnel project broke ground during Nelson Rockefeller’s administration.​​Plans to build the Second Ave. subway date back to the 1920s, when private companies ran the city’s subway lines. But it never came to fruition.​​The abandoned tunnel Hochul toured is dusty, rusty and tattered — and it’s not the only one. The MTA in 1974 also stopped work on another Second Ave. tunnel between 99th and 105th Sts. that Lieber said will also be repurposed.​​Another tunnel built by the city under Canal St. in Chinatown for the Second Ave. subway was also abandoned — but changes to the line’s plan mean it’s no longer needed.​​The Second Ave. subway’s construction was approved in 1967 when New York voters OK’d $2.5 billion of bonds to pay for transportation improvements.​​At the time, city and state officials planned for the line to run along Manhattan’s East Side up into the Bronx. If MTA officials ever make good plans for the line’s final two phases, the line would one day stretch from 125th St. to Hanover Square in the Financial District.​​The money approved in 1967 was also supposed to pay for a set of double-decker East River tunnels, one of which now carries the F line between Manhattan and Queens. The other tunnel is being used for the MTA’s East Side Access project to bring Long Island Rail Road trains into a new station beneath Grand Central Terminal, which is expected to open to the public in Dec. 2022.​


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## Woonsocket54

Even if they don't end up finishing the Second Avenue subway extension, they can definitely shoot horror films in there

Governor Hochul and MTA Leadership Tour Second Avenue Subway Tunnel by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Governor Hochul and MTA Leadership Tour Second Avenue Subway Tunnel by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr

Governor Hochul and MTA Leadership Tour Second Avenue Subway Tunnel by Metropolitan Transportation Authority of the State of New York, on Flickr


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## Hourdel

> That’s $3.9 billion per mile, far and away the highest cost of any subway extension project in the history of the world.


Why is it so expensive to build a subway line in NYC ?



> MTA filings to the feds estimate the construction of the extension will take seven years to finish.


It is much faster than phase 1, isn't it?


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## GojiMet86

Hourdel said:


> Why is it so expensive to build a subway line in NYC ?
> 
> It is much faster than phase 1, isn't it?


I don't think it's the Unions driving the costs through the roof. Me thinks its something to do with how contracts are handed out.

What's worse about this is that there are several tunnels already built. The 2 partially completed sections in the map were built in the 1970s.

I am also hearing that the 125th Street part is more difficult to build. Of course, the original plans for the subway had it going into the Bronx, not hooking left.

My understanding is that they chose the 125th Street alignment to connect to Metro-North, not so much for connectivity, but in order to get the suburban representatives on the board to vote for it.

The subway really should have gone straight to at least Grand Concourse in the Bronx.


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## Shenkey

It should go to Bronx, or hook right to La Guardia and connect to N/W


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## Arnorian

They should build the extension with a provision for continuing to the Bronx. Q train can terminate at 125th street/Broadway, and the future T rain can go from Hanover square to the Bronx. Or the other way round.


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## stockholm79

Isn't that the plan?
Have they changed it?


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## GojiMet86

The R32s will be coming back to service for their retirement runs!









R-32 Retirement Runs


R-32 subway cars are making their final trip, ending 58 years of service in New York City. Please join us to say farewell to this historic fleet.




www.nytransitmuseum.org





*END OF THE YEAR, END OF AN ERA
R-32 FAREWELL TRIP*
R-32 subway cars are making their final trip, ending 58 years of service in New York City. Please join us to say farewell to this historic fleet. 










*ROUTE & SCHEDULE*
R-32 Retirement Runs 
Sundays, 10am to 5pm
December 19th and 26th, 2021 and January 2nd, 2022

*Final Farewell Run*
Sunday, January 9th, 2022, 10am – 6:30pm 

Approximate Schedule for Sundays, December 19th, December 26th and January 2nd:

Departs 2nd Avenue Station on the F line at 10am, 12pm, 2pm, and 4pm, making all express stops to 145th Street Station on the D line.
Departs 145th Street Station on the D line at 11am, 1pm, 3pm, and 5pm, making all express stops to the 2nd Avenue Station on the F line.
Approximate Schedule for Final Farewell Runs on Sunday, January 9th:

Departs Brighton Beach Station on the Q line at 10am, 12:30pm, 3pm, 5:30pm, making express stops on the Brighton and Broadway Lines to 96th Street Station, via the Manhattan Bridge.
Departs 96th Street Station on the Q line at 11am, 1:30, 4pm, 6:30pm, making express stops on the Brighton and Broadway Lines to Brighton Beach Station, via the Manhattan Bridge. 
Route and schedule subject to change at the discretion of the train crew.

*ABOUT THE R-32*










This subway car is one of 600 R-32s that the Transit Authority purchased in 1964 as part of its continuing program to provide better service to the public. Known as the Brightliners, these cars were among 4,000 new cars added to the Authority’s fleet from 1953 to 1964 at a cost of $450 million ($4,661,612,359.55 in 2021 dollars.)

*PRESERVING THE R-32*
The New York Transit Museum has preserved a pair of R-32 cars, #3352 and #3353. This pair led the first train of R-32s on the fleet’s ceremonial inaugural trip in 1964.

Each car cost $114,700 ($1,036,756.81 in 2021 dollars) and included state-of-the-art features for the comfort of passengers. These sturdy stainless steel cars were rebuilt in the 1980s as part of the General Overhaul Program. When the R-160 cars were introduced in 2006, they supplanted most of the R-32s. The remaining cars received a maintenance makeover in 2012.

Much like the Redbirds that ran on IRT services, R-32s served on many different lines – so if you rode the subway between 1964 and 2020, you probably spent some time on an R-32. After 58 years of service (the second-longest service life in New York City subway history), it’s time to bid farewell to the beloved Brightliners.

*DID YOU KNOW?*










600 R-32 cars were built by the Budd Company. It was the largest order of NYC Subway cars at the time!
R-32 cars were nicknamed “Brightliners” because of their molded, washboard-like stainless steel exteriors.
R-32 cars have served New Yorkers for 58 years. This is the second longest service life in New York City subway history.
Each car weighed 70,000 pounds when delivered, about 4,000 pounds lighter than other new subway cars at the time.
R-32s were introduced with a ceremonial trip that originated at New York Central Railroad’s Mott Haven Yard in the Bronx and ended at Grand Central Terminal, where they were greeted with a 20-piece Transit Authority marching band. No subway car had traveled that route before. Joseph O’Grady, Chairman of the New York City Transit Authority, chose the route to show that “subways are railroads too.” The only change needed to run these subway cars on this route were the contact shoes.
Many of these cars saw a new life in retirement, recycled as part of the MTA’s 2001-2010 artificial reef program off the Eastern Seaboard.


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## hkskyline

Holiday Farewell by Matt Csenge, on Flickr


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## GojiMet86

......It was a disaster. Many of the railfans were unruly, a map holder and its R32 Retirement poster was stolen, some rollsigns were changed, a window was cracked, some guy vaped, people constantly changing cars through the storm doors (the doors in between cars), a light fixture was broken, and so was a bench.

The 2 PM was the last run. All the runs after were cancelled, the official announcement "due to vandalism". That was announced on the public announcement speaker at 2nd Avenue. The guy even announced that because of a few bad actors, they had to take it out of service.

They kicked everyone at 145th Street, which was supposed to run back to 2nd Av. The MTA had hired security personnel and boy did they drag people out. There's a bunch of videos on Twitter.

The R42 retirement was almost as chaotic as this one, but this took the cake.



Not my photos or videos:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1472665669040758796
Some photos from FB:




















__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1472695516123312131


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## hkskyline

Yikes ... that's bad. Thought the train fans wouldn't get so rowdy ...

IMG_5318 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5304 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5313 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5308 by GojiMet86, on Flickr

IMG_5306 by GojiMet86, on Flickr


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## GojiMet86

The NYTM will continue holding the retirement runs. An official statement from the New York Transit Museum:


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/nycrail/comments/rn0vzj


*Official Statement from New York Transit Museum Director on the R-32 Retirement Runs*​​After more than twenty months without a vintage train ride, the New York Transit Museum working closely with the MTA was proud and delighted to help bring forward an opportunity to return to the rails and to pay tribute to an iconic moment with the retirement of the R-32s.​​While the vast majority of riders and railfans enjoyed themselves this past Sunday, December 19th, unfortunately, the day was marred by acts of vandalism, aggression, foul language and generally unruly behavior.​​Because we know people are traveling from places near and far to take part in these retirement runs - and further because we firmly believe that the acts, however egregious, of a few should not negatively impact the majority of riders, we are going forward with the scheduled runs for Sunday, December 26th, 2021.​​Please note the following:​​If at any time, for any reason the train crew deems it necessary to take the train out of service, they will do so immediately and all future retirement runs of the R32s will be canceled.​​If you destroy something on a vintage train, you are not- in fact- a railfan- you are a vandal and a criminal and will be treated as such. Accordingly, all acts of vandalism, harassment of train crew members and other inappropriate behavior, will be referred to the authorities for response, up to and including arrest and prosecution.​​To honor the legacy of the men and women who made it their life's work to preserve NYC transit history, and our colleagues who continue to keep this city moving, the New York Transit Museum has worked hard to be able to provide these experiences for nothing more than the swipe of a fare card. And, if we can no longer ensure a safe and fun day for everyone, we will move to a system where all future vintage excursions are restricted and ticketed events.​​We ask the many true railfans and subway enthusiasts in this community to join us in condemning this behavior and invite you to ride the rails on Sunday, and everyday, safely and respectfully.​​Thank you,​​Concetta Anne Bencivenga​Director​New York Transit Museum​


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## hkskyline

* Vandalism threatening last runs of vintage NYC subway cars *
_Excerpt_
Dec 26, 2021

NEW YORK (AP) — The celebratory last runs of vintage New York City subway cars could be in jeopardy because of vandalism.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority announced recently it would run one train of the 1960s-era R-32 cars on four successive Sundays beginning Dec. 19 before they are put on display at the New York Transit Museum in Brooklyn.

The New York Daily News reported Saturday that transit workers said someone kicked in one of the cars’ seats, which are irreplaceable, during the first run and that the remaining runs could be canceled.

...

The cars, nicknamed the Brightliners, were the first large fleet of mass-produced stainless-steel cars purchased by the MTA and are the last class of subway cars with a front window through which passengers can look. They have been seen in movies including “Spiderman: Homecoming” and “Joker,” according to the MTA.

Many were taken out of service beginning in the late 2000s, and most were sunk in the Atlantic Ocean as part of an artificial reef program.

More : Vandalism threatening last runs of vintage NYC subway cars | AP News


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## hkskyline

* Amid Covid surge, New York City subway forced to cut back service *
_Excerpt_
Dec 27, 2021

(CNN) - The Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which is responsible for managing the New York City region's public transit, announced that there will be fewer trains running this week due to the Covid-19 surge in New York.

The schedule change for Monday to Thursday comes from a shortage of workers due to Covid-19. "By reducing scheduled service, we're able to re-allocate train crews where they're needed, rather than cancel individual trips," the NYCT Subway Twitter account said in a series of tweets Sunday afternoon.

New York broke a single-day record for new Covid-19 cases on Christmas Eve, hitting 49,708 reported cases according to data from the Governor's office.

More : Amid Covid surge, New York City subway forced to cut back service


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## Riley1066

The N or Q train should be extended to LaGuardia and the other one should be extended to The Bronx to meet one of the four new New Haven Amtrak Line Metro North stations.

Additionally there should be an "Express" Airport line from LaGuardia to Jackson Heights to transfer to the EFMR and 7 trains, and then on to JFK, and from JFK to WTC and then on to Newark Airport


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## IsaanUSA

Is there a specific reason why this retirement run did not go well? I don't know the history of these cars, but as an outsider, this does not make any sense to me. Thank you


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## GojiMet86

IsaanUSA said:


> Is there a specific reason why this retirement run did not go well? I don't know the history of these cars, but as an outsider, this does not make any sense to me. Thank you


The first Sunday was not considered good because of the behavior of transit enthusiasts. It was cancelled after 3 PM. Many of the museum volunteers were upset with the incidents that happened.

The second and third Sundays were by far better off. Nothing really happened, except on just one run were the police kicked off a maskless passenger. A far cry from what happened on that first run

But now, as it turns out, the R32 train has been vandalized again, this time inside Coney Island Yard.



In other, more exciting news:




__ https://www.facebook.com/mta/posts/287057446792414




Today Governor Kathy Hochul announced her transformational vision for Brooklyn and Queens. The Interborough Express, running along 14mi of existing freight tracks, would stretch from Bay Ridge to Jackson Hts and could connect up to 17 subway lines + MTA LIRR, serving ~1M riders daily.​​We’re going to begin an environmental review and work with our federal and state partners to make this project a reality.​​


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## streetscapeer

Haven't they done an environmteal review and feasibility study and all that? Damn, just get the ball rolling already. So much red tape


----------



## stockholm79

Just what I have been thinking about!
Only my dream project is a bit more ambitious....

Extension to Brooklyn and NJ:

running along the NEC
running along the I95 (possibly upper level?)
connection to an extension of the 2nd Ave line at the Hamilton bridge
connection to the express tracks under North Boulevard










Extension to Staten Island with one line going to the St George ferry and one to Tottenville:









Additional Brooklyn connection:

using the existing Brighton line
using the right of way for the Franklin Ave shuttle, going slowly underground
new underground section under Franklin and Myrtle Ave with a connection to the old Myrtle Ave El around Throop Ave
using and the existing Myrtle Ave line
there should also be connections to the L train so southbound trains can be turned around in Canarsie-Rockaway Park and northbound trains can go downtown via the Canarsie line











The 8th Ave line could be extended running along the Metro North Hudson line and the Concourse line along the Harlem line, removing some of the Metro North stops and acting as a local service:










The 2nd Ave line could also be extended along the Metro North corridors and the 125 St branch to Broadway:


----------



## Shenkey

Subways need to run where people are, not under existing freight tracks or highways.


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## stockholm79

It's not like there aren't people there.
And much the idea of this subway is to make good connections to other subways, so if some parts run through industrial areas, this is totally fine.


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## streetscapeer

And some of those industrial sites could eventually be strategically rezoned to allow dense residential developments


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## speedy1979

Shenkey said:


> Subways need to run where people are, not under existing freight tracks or highways.


Interestingly where in live in Bronx the subway came first and the people followed. This is clearly visible in old aerial survey photos that used to be available on google earth.


----------



## boss-ton

Shenkey said:


> Subways need to run where people are, not under existing freight tracks or highways.


Even if it wasnt where people were the line would still allow riders the ability to transfer between almost every line in brooklyn and queens. That alone makes it worth it, but on top of that the line runs through very dense areas so your point is moot. Today riders have to take the subway all the way in to manhattan to be able to transfer to a line that goes back out to a different part of brooklyn/queens. This line solves that problem. This is a much needed addition.


----------



## xfactor99

Is it feasible to build some sort of AirTrain to LaGuardia using the ROW north of Jackson Heights? Looking at Google Maps it gets tantalizingly close to LaGuardia.

I would like the N extension myself, but obviously that may still be highly controversial so wondering if there is an alternative solution.


----------



## boss-ton

xfactor99 said:


> Is it feasible to build some sort of AirTrain to LaGuardia using the ROW north of Jackson Heights? Looking at Google Maps it gets tantalizingly close to LaGuardia.
> 
> I would like the N extension myself, but obviously that may still be highly controversial so wondering if there is an alternative solution.


Ask and you shall receive









MassTransitMag Link


----------



## hkskyline

The King is Dead, Long Live the King! by Matt Csenge, on Flickr


----------



## Pierre50

Marvellous picture, great thanks !


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## stockholm79

Why did they remove the destination sign? The size of the letter also seems a bit smaller (maybe the letter is still the same size but just the window is smaller?). You can clearly see the taped over window in the middle.
And why did they remove the exp/lcl signs?


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## GojiMet86

stockholm79 said:


> Why did they remove the destination sign? The size of the letter also seems a bit smaller (maybe the letter is still the same size but just the window is smaller?). You can clearly see the taped over window in the middle.
> And why did they remove the exp/lcl signs?


They had these things removed during their refurbishment from 1988-1990.


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## garogrubi

Is there an estimate how much the renewal of the NY subway system would cost?


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## stockholm79

Probably depends on how much you want to renew.
But for the whole system, considering decades of neglect - astronomical.


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## stockholm79

GojiMet86 said:


> They had these things removed during their refurbishment from 1988-1990.


I know it was during one of the refurbs, but why? It was good information for the passengers and shouldn't have been removed.
And what's with the blue doors and details? Were they like that originally (guess this is just plastic wrapped)?


----------



## Fan Railer




----------



## Ghostpoet

NY Moving Forward With New Interborough Express Transit Line: What It Means for You


Bay Ridge to Jackson Heights in 40 minutes or less? More subway connections to Manhattan? Yes, please.




www.nbcnewyork.com













Interborough Express


Learn more about the Interborough Express, a rapid transit line that would connect up to 17 subway lines between Brooklyn and Queens.




new.mta.info





Ghostpoet


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## Zaz965

an interesting chart


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## GojiMet86

This is the source of the map:








Service Denied: Accessibility and the New York City Subway System


New York City’s Inaccessible Subway System Despite the delays, despite the deferred maintenance, despite the growing frustration, the New York City subway system remains the most expansive in the country and among the most impressive in the world. Its reach is extraordinary, with 472 stations...




comptroller.nyc.gov






It does a mostly good job, but you can see how it can be skewed. Canarsie on the L is pretty big, but it only has one station and that is at the edge of the neighborhood.

I'm a little confused with how the definition of neighborhoods here is defined. See how all of the Rockaways peninsula sans park is shown to be served by the subway? In reality it's really only Far Rockaway and Rockaway park, not Roxbury, Neponsit, or Breezy Points (neighborhoods which btw would prefer not to have subways).

Or how the neighborhood shown right below Jackson Heights-74th Street station is shown without any accessibility, even when it is literally only a couple of meters below the station.

Or look at JFK Airport. It is not served at all by the subway, only the AirTrain.


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## Zaz965

GojiMet86 said:


> It does a mostly good job, but you can see how it can be skewed. Canarsie on the L is pretty big, but it only has one station and that is at the edge of the neighborhood.


indeed. but why doesn't the new york goverment want to make more coverage in some parts of brooklin and queens not covered by subway?


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## xfactor99

GojiMet86 said:


> This is the source of the map:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Service Denied: Accessibility and the New York City Subway System
> 
> 
> New York City’s Inaccessible Subway System Despite the delays, despite the deferred maintenance, despite the growing frustration, the New York City subway system remains the most expansive in the country and among the most impressive in the world. Its reach is extraordinary, with 472 stations...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> comptroller.nyc.gov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It does a mostly good job, but you can see how it can be skewed. Canarsie on the L is pretty big, but it only has one station and that is at the edge of the neighborhood.
> 
> I'm a little confused with how the definition of neighborhoods here is defined. See how all of the Rockaways peninsula sans park is shown to be served by the subway? In reality it's really only Far Rockaway and Rockaway park, not Roxbury, Neponsit, or Breezy Points (neighborhoods which btw would prefer not to have subways).
> 
> Or how the neighborhood shown right below Jackson Heights-74th Street station is shown without any accessibility, even when it is literally only a couple of meters below the station.
> 
> Or look at JFK Airport. It is not served at all by the subway, only the AirTrain.


I believe they are based off the neighborhood tabulation areas (NTA's) as defined by the city. I worked with that dataset once so I was familiar with it. You can see them here -





__





NTA map | NYC Open Data


data: Boundaries of Neighborhood Tabulation Areas as created by the NYC Department of City Planning using whole census tracts from the 2010 Census as building blocks. These aggregations of census tracts are subsets of New York City's 55 Public Use Microdata Areas (PUMAs).




data.cityofnewyork.us


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## Zaz965

I am disappointed, east Queens is not covered by subway 😭 😭


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## GojiMet86

......And people are already complaining about the Interborough:









Locals concerned about potential drawbacks of Interborough Express


Some residents are concerned about the noise the proposed Interborough Express Rail may bring to an area already overwhelmed with freight cars.




qns.com





*Ridgewood, Maspeth and Middle Village residents, elected officials concerned about potential drawbacks of proposed Interborough Express Rail*​By Julia Moro​Posted on January 11, 2022​​Gov. Kathy Hochul announced her proposal for an Interborough Express Rail that would connect Brooklyn and Queens during the State of the State address on Wednesday, Jan 5, and while many are thrilled about increased access to public transportation, there are those who are voicing concerns regarding the amount of noise the railway would bring to an area already overwhelmed with freight cars.​​Hochul’s proposal would utilize a dormant 14-mile rail line, providing faster commutes for countless residents between the two neighboring boroughs. The rail would go right through the Ridgewood, Middle Village and Maspeth areas — which have been dealing with excessive noise from the New York & Atlantic Railway Co. (NYA) rails at all hours of the night, among other issues.​​Residents near Mafera Park, and especially on Edsall Avenue in Glendale, have been battling with NYA for years now. They claim that trains currently come by at odd hours of the night, blaring horns and slamming freight cars together. This creates incredible noise and shaking that some say is ruining the foundations of their homes.​​Luis Ross lives 40 feet from the tracks on Edsall Avenue and said the noise, along with the deteriorating conditions of his street due to the rail line, have seriously impacted his quality of life.​​“We can’t sleep. Me and my wife were going to stay in a hotel one time because it was affecting my heart,” Ross said. “We’re tired. We either have to move out or tell somebody about this.”​​In response to these concerns, NYA previously released a statement saying that although it is understandable residents are bothered by the noise, the horns are entirely unavoidable.​​“Audible warning devices are federally mandated to ensure the general public’s safety,” NYA said in a statement. “Rest assured that our train crews are not wantonly sounding horns for any other purpose than what is required by federal safety regulations. Safety is of paramount concern to NYA.”​​Residents today are still struggling to get a good night’s sleep with the NYA freight rails running through their otherwise quiet neighborhood. And now the potential for a new commuter rail has residents asking, how much more can this community take?​​One resident, Linda Byszynski, a local activist and resident, said she supports a Brooklyn and Queens line but has concerns about the impact and placement of the rail.​​“It looks like the proposed freight line that they want to use is the one in my ‘backyard,’” Byszynski said. “I have concerns because of the noise and the deteriorating conditions of the rail line.”​​Another local, Sharon Vincent, has lived on 72nd Place between Edsall and Central avenues since 1998.​​“I’m often woken up at 2, 3 or 4 in the morning by the horns,” Vincent said. “I would love to see some kind of connection into Brooklyn so I don’t have to go into Brooklyn via Manhattan, but I am concerned about it running here. This [house] is my retirement.”​​This particular area of Queens is far off from any major public transportation lines. City Councilman Robert Holden told the New York Post that he supports the transit option for his constituents.​​“Since much of our district is a virtual public transit desert, it’s exciting to revisit the idea,” Holden said. “More transportation would be very helpful. We need a thorough study.”​​State Senator Joseph Addabbo said he sympathizes with the community and has heard the noise from the NYA rails first hand back in 2009 when he asked a constituent if he could experience it for himself.​​“Here I am, sitting in the kitchen of a constituent at 4 in the morning, having my coffee and cookies, with the rattling of the dishes because the rail is so close to these homes,” Addabbo said. “I appreciate the governor’s vision, and it really is all about improving transportation, but to do it in a very environmentally friendly way with minimal impact on the community. I support the idea of moving forward in a very cautious way as we look at the details.”​​In response to some of the residents’ concerns, an MTA spokesperson told QNS that they are working to begin an environmental review, which will give residents the opportunity to voice their concerns.​​“The MTA shares the view of Queens Borough President Donovan Richards that this project will be good for all parts of Queens and we are eager to partner with him to pursue strategies that will enable the most efficient roll-out of the environmental review process,” the statement said. “We invite anyone with input to participate in the robust environmental review process that’s soon going to be underway.”​​The MTA also said that the trains would be electrically powered, minimizing local noise and emissions. However, Assemblywoman Cathy Nolan, who lives in Ridgewood, last week said she is “deeply concerned” about the proposal.​​“I opposed the privatization of the Long Island Freight Line many years ago and there continues to be serious safety concerns. I want to ensure those I represent are included in the process, as they understand transportation needs between the boroughs better than any plan coming from Albany,” Nolan said. “I would oppose this project at this time but, of course, await information from our governor as to her vision to address the critical needs of Queens.”​


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## suburbicide

How much of this freight line is at grade? Would it be possible to grade separate crossings with underpasses or elevated structures? 

And do they intend to continue using the line for freight alongside passenger service?


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## GojiMet86

suburbicide said:


> How much of this freight line is at grade? Would it be possible to grade separate crossings with underpasses or elevated structures?
> 
> And do they intend to continue using the line for freight alongside passenger service?


There are two freight lines that these people have in mind, and might be mixing up.

The Bay Ridge line is the north-south freight link being discussed for the new passenger line. That is completely grade separated, no grade crossings, and is either under street level or above.

Then there is the LIRR Montauk line, which has grade crossings and is mostly at grade. Only Fresh Pond yard (which is where the two lines meet up near the M subway line), a section in Fresh Pond, and the section near Jamaica are grade separated.

The person who lives at "72nd Place between Edsall and Central avenues" is actually located on the Montauk line (and lives where the LIRR Montauk Br label is on the map, at the end of a park).

In other words, the usual NIMBY stuff. The Montauk line is about 150 years old. These people chose to live next to an active freight line, near an active freight yard, with active freight trains, and then wonder why there is noise.


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## JHPart

In many European cities, the railway lines are also used for local public transport. Mostly trains are running at lower frequencies than real subway lines, but it could be well used.


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## prageethSL

*MTA exploring platform barriers after Times Square subway shove tragedy*

Transit leaders will explore the installation of platform barriers following the horrific death of a woman shoved onto the tracks at the Times Square subway station, MTA acting Chair Janno Lieber said Tuesday.

But platform shove-preventing screen doors — which the MTA has previously derided as prohibitively complicated and expensive — face significant obstacles, Lieber cautioned.

“Platform doors are an idea that works in many places, but there are special complexities in New York,” Lieber told reporters. “That said, we’re always looking for ways that we can make the system safer.”

Lieber cited “the age of our system,” station ventilation and maintaining platform accessibility as potential roadblocks. A transit spokesman also cited “train door misalignment” and “column placement.”

MTA leaders have previously knocked platform screen doors as a prohibitively expensive and complicated “multi-billion dollar solution.”
On Tuesday, Lieber said the MTA’s recently formed “track trespass” working group is exploring its feasibility among other potential responses to a recent increase in subway track intrusions.

Experts said the investment is worth it.

“I’m sure it is feasible,” said NYU transit researcher Eric Goldwyn. “They are already retrofitting stations. If you throw platform doors in, does that cost much more?”

New York City’s only platform barriers are on the JFK Airport AirTrain — but international cities have figured out how to retrofit aging stations with platform screens, Goldwyn noted — including Paris, Hong Kong and Sofia, Bulgaria.


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## LtBk

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1483823740127481856


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## GojiMet86

The Interborough Express is slowly getting off the ground!

Gov. Kathy Hochul's new announcements:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484209861424467970

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1484216551616262144

Proud to announce that we’re moving forward with a huge New York City transit project: the new Interborough Express​​This line will connect Brooklyn and Queens, shaving time off commutes and making it easier to connect to subway lines across the route.​​
























Here is a new MTA report:


https://new.mta.info/document/72081


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## Stuu

GojiMet86 said:


> The Interborough Express is slowly getting off the ground!


Didn't they say the same about the Brooklyn-Queens LRT plan?


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## UrbanImpact

Zaz965 said:


> an interesting chart


Howard Beach has subway access on the A train, map is wrong. 








Howard Beach - JFK Subway Station · Queens, NY 11414


★★★★☆ · Subway station




goo.gl


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## UrbanImpact

Also Bath Beach, in Brooklyn has two D train subway stops on its border:








20 Av · Brooklyn, NY 11214


★★★★☆ · Subway station




goo.gl













 Bay Pkwy · Bay Pkwy, Brooklyn, NY 11214


★★★★☆ · Subway station




goo.gl


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## MichiganExpress

LtBk said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1483823740127481856


I hope he was joking. It's ok to be proud of your city but those ridiculous claims are not going to help NYC.


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## GojiMet86

MichiganExpress said:


> I hope he was joking. It's ok to be proud of your city but those ridiculous claims are not going to help NYC.


These are the sort of things that politicians here say ad nauseum. They will never admit there is a world beyond the sea, and anything that has been done already 20 years ago by another country is considered an American innovation.


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## GojiMet86

An article about the reefing program that the MTA did when it retired most of the R32 and all the R38 and R40s. As it turns out, it basically failed.









Sinking 1,000 NYC subway cars in the Atlantic to create a reef didn’t go as planned


The cars were retired in 2008 and started disintegrating almost immediately.




www.fastcompany.com





*Sinking 1,000 NYC subway cars in the Atlantic to create a reef didn’t go as planned*​The cars were retired in 2008 and started disintegrating almost immediately.​​





​BY ELISSAVETA M. BRANDON​​After 58 years of service, the Metropolitan Transit Authority has now retired every single one of its remaining “Brightliners” (R-32 subway cars). Known for their shiny corrugated stainless-steel paneling, the Brightliners bid New York City farewell earlier this month, before they were taken by rail to be scrapped in Ohio.​​Most of the cars were retired more than 10 years ago, when more than 1,000 of them were shipped to coastal areas in Delaware, New Jersey, and Georgia and dropped on the ocean floor as part of an artificial reef program. Back then, artificial reefs were designed to boost recreational fishing, which in 2011 generated a whopping $15 billion in state and federal taxes. So the program made sense: The subway cars were welcomed by the fishing and scuba diving industries. Plus, the MTA saved millions of dollars it would have spent to scrap the trains.​​The Brightliners were predicted to last underwater for more than 25 years, but they started to disintegrate only months after they were dropped. And that could have been the end of the story. But as climate change continues to deplete reefs and marine habitats across the country, artificial reefs have been growing as useful environmental tools. They can help restore lost habitat, enhance the marine ecosystem, and promote conservation efforts—as long as they’re the right size, right material, and placed in the right location.​​The MTA had good reason to believe the program would succeed. Just a few years prior, it had dropped more than 1,000 Redbird trains in the ocean. They remain on the ocean floor to this day, in part because they were made of carbon steel, which helps prevent corrosion.​​By comparison, Brightliners were made of stainless steel. When the subway cars debuted in 1964, they were a mechanical and aesthetic innovation. The stainless steel made the train cars lighter on the tracks, but this worked against them underwater. Daniel Sheehy, an environmental consultant who’s been studying artificial reefs for more than 50 years, says the project failed for two reasons: first, because the trains’ envelopes were spot-welded, which formed a thin layer between the two metals that led to corrosion. Second, because the corrugated pattern made it easier for undercurrent waves to “grab on to” and further pull the stainless skin apart. “It is important that we learn from these mistakes and improve the process,” he says.​


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## glksc

*NYC violent crime, homelessness causes massive drop in subway ridership: 'Crime is out of control'*









NYC violent crime, homelessness causes massive drop in subway ridership: 'Crime is out of control'


The leader of New York City's transportation agency, MTA, said Wednesday that the increased violent crime and pervasive homelessness seen in the subway system can largely be attributed to the drastic drop in ridership between December and the first few weeks of the new year.




www.foxnews.com






> The leader of New York City's transportation agency, MTA, said Wednesday that the increased violent crime and pervasive homelessness seen in the subway system can largely be attributed to the drastic drop in ridership between December and the first few weeks of the new year.
> 
> During a meeting Wednesday, MTA Chairman Janno Lieber, an appointee of New York Gov. Kathy Hochul, recognized that despite added police presence in the subway system, he still witnessed "drug use and disorder" during a recent visit to Penn Station, a major metro hub for commuters.


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## Hourdel

"NYC violent crime, homelessness causes massive drop in subway ridership."
"The increased violent crime and pervasive homelessness seen in the subway system can largely be attributed to the drastic drop in ridership."
I don't understand. What causes what ?


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## fkus

When a 40 years old woman was pushed and killed on the subway on Times Square station, people would think if it worths take the subway.


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## stockholm79

And whatabout all costs when they need to stop traffic due to people on the tracks and people hit by trains?


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## ryaboisse

I had a general question, where can I find info about what specifically is being done at the Mezzanine at Grand Central-42nd Street? I've been commuting through GC for a year and pass through everyday to get on the 7 to go to the West Side and read somewhere that they're replacing the switchback escalators to that lower level to be a single straight escalator? Is that true? I feel like I read that somewhere but I can't for the life of me find any record of it at all. Is that taking so long because of the forthcoming Grand Hyatt improvements? Or are they working on something else entirely. Most MTA info on work there seems to tie back to the improvements on the Shuttle side of things.


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## bd popeye

ryaboisse said:


> I had a general question, where can I find info about what specifically is being done at the Mezzanine at Grand Central-42nd Street?


I'm not sure but maybe what you are looking for can be found on this page;









Station accessibility projects


The MTA is investing more than $5.5 billion in station accessibility improvements in the 2020-2024 Capital Program. This historic investment includes 70 new ADA accessible stations and elevator replacement projects at an additional 78 locations.




new.mta.info


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