# City-entrance signs



## arusingh (Jan 25, 2010)

I am searching for pictures of City-entrance signs in different European countries. Basically, I am interested in some ambiguous scenarios related to these signs. If you have any interesting images related to these signs, please post them here.


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

Entering the big French cities. All these signs appear at the borders of the municipalities ("communes" in French; e.g. the "City of Lyon" = the "municipality of Lyon" = the "commune of Lyon"). 

*Paris:*


















*Lyon:* Lyon typifies the absurdity of the French cities' administrative borders which not only cut across urban areas, but often also cut across the most central parts of the urban areas as in the case of the super small municipality of Lyon.









*Marseille:*









*Lille:*









*Toulouse:*









A rare sign in France: the Toulouse City Hall wishes you "Bonne route" as you cross the administrative border of the large municipality of Toulouse on your way out.









*Nice:* The translation in Niçard dialect is really a fancy of the city hall, given that almost nobody speaks Niçard anymore.









Another rare sign. The City of Nice welcomes you in many languages as you cross its administrative border.









*Nantes:*









*Strasbourg:*









All the things you need to know when you enter the municipality of Strasbourg.


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## tsov (Nov 23, 2009)

For the Netherlands I'd check out http://borden.plaatsengids.nl. It's got pics of the signs of all Dutch towns.


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

In Overseas France the city/town signs are the same as in Metropolitan France.

Here in Mayotte:









Here in the bush in New Caledonia:









Here in French Guiana:


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## piotr71 (Sep 8, 2009)

Some of Portsmouth signs. None of these is placed on the actual city border. So, at least they are placed.

Quality of pics is as it is, but hopefully You can see something.


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## 1000city (Sep 8, 2007)

Uppersilesian colours (blue&gold) + city's coat of arms + welcome in various languages. I belive they stand at every major entrance to the city (dual carriageways).


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## piotr71 (Sep 8, 2009)

Is it Dk81 or 86?


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## 1000city (Sep 8, 2007)

^^ DK86 right on Tychy-Katowice border: http://tiny.pl/hmp4l


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## mirza-sm (Jul 28, 2005)

Entrance from Croatia to the city of Neum, the coastal city in Bosnia & Herzegovina


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## Danielk2 (Jun 2, 2009)

Danish town entrance sign


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## piotr71 (Sep 8, 2009)

mirza-sm said:


> Entrance from Croatia to the city of Neum, the coastal city in Bosnia & Herzegovina


I really like this Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian words "Dobro dos(z)li"


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## mirza-sm (Jul 28, 2005)

^^ Hehe, thanks. And we really like Polish/Slovak/Czech "sz", "cz" and "w" words (look at my Location in my nick how Sarajevo is spelled)


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## Fuzzy Llama (Jan 24, 2009)

^^ But you know that sz=š ?

Nevertheless, normal Polish entrance signs (the previous example from Katowice is unofficial) looks like this:









White sign means the beginning of built-up area. Usually it is placed together with the sign with place name, but sometimes the green sign is placed at the administrative border and the built-up area begins further, where there are actually some buildings alongside the road.

------------
\/\/
Yep.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

So only the white/black sign means you have to drive 50 km/h?


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## mapman:cz (Jan 14, 2007)

mirza-sm said:


> ^^ Hehe, thanks. And we really like Polish/Slovak/Czech "sz", "cz" and "w" words (look at my Location in my nick how Sarajevo is spelled)


OT: Actually, there are no sz cz and w words in czech and slovak, we use š č and v  OTOH, "sz" that stands for "s" is hungarian one (s = š, sz = s).


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## zsimi80 (Nov 28, 2009)

mapman:cz said:


> OT: Actually, there are no sz cz and w words in czech and slovak, we use š č and v  OTOH, "sz" that stands for "s" is hungarian one (s = š, sz = s).



Hungarian version: Szarajevó


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## seem (Jun 15, 2008)

1000city said:


> Uppersilesian colours (blue&gold) + city's coat of arms + welcome in various languages. I belive they stand at every major entrance to the city (dual carriageways).


one mistake.. 

It isn`t "Vitame" but "Vitajte" in Slovak and "Vítejte" in Cezch. "Vitame" is also correct but only with "vás" = "Vítame vás" (in Slovak). 

or that`s another language :nuts:

if I am sure, there is not another


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## zsimi80 (Nov 28, 2009)

*HUNGARY*

New types:


















old ones:


















bilingual (except 1  ) from Google Earth:


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## piotr71 (Sep 8, 2009)

mapman:cz said:


> OT: Actually, there are no sz cz and w words in czech and slovak, we use š č and v  OTOH, "sz" that stands for "s" is hungarian one (s = š, sz = s).


Is not Czech and Slovak *š, č* similarly pronounced to Polish *sz, cz* but a bit softer? Not as soft as Polish "*Ś, ć*" though.

Btw. we say Sarajewo 

*@ Chris Zwolle* - Yes, exactly. Green ones show where you are and indicate town/ village borders.


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## mirza-sm (Jul 28, 2005)

Fuzzy Llama said:


> ^^ But you know that sz=š ?


Yeah i know, but "sz" looks cooler to us than "š"


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## mirza-sm (Jul 28, 2005)

zsimi80 said:


> Hungarian version: Szarajevó





piotr71 said:


> Is not Czech and Slovak *š, č* similarly pronounced to Polish *sz, cz* but a bit softer? Not as soft as Polish "*Ś, ć*" though.
> 
> Btw. we say Sarajewo


So I made a mix of Hungarian and Polish of Sarajevo?! :doh: 

Yeah I know that Czechs and Slovaks dont use SZ, Polish and Hungarians do, but Slovaks and Czechs use W instead of V and Y instead of I sometimes, so we in Bosnia find it cool, cuz we dont use those words. I actually do hate when spoiled Bosnian teens use "W" in facebook instead of "V" like "Wolim teeeeee" instead of "Volim te".


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## Czas na Żywiec (Jan 17, 2005)

Fuzzy Llama said:


> ^^ But you know that sz=š ?
> 
> Nevertheless, normal Polish entrance signs (the previous example from Katowice is unofficial) looks like this:
> 
> ...


My favorite Polish village.


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## brisavoine (Mar 19, 2006)

zsimi80 said:


> New types:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a copy and paste of the French city signs' design it seems. Only the font is different.


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## paF4uko (Jul 12, 2008)

Czas na Żywiec;51091139 said:


> My favorite Polish village.


Mine too! And talking about this, as we're in the winter, I'll grab a glass of Żubrówka... :cheers2:

Here are some from Bulgaria:


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## Czas na Żywiec (Jan 17, 2005)

^^ Do all signs in Bulgaria use both scripts on their signage or do you have any that are just in Cyrillic?


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## bozata90 (Dec 8, 2008)

Czas na Żywiec;51214449 said:


> ^^ Do all signs in Bulgaria use both scripts on their signage or do you have any that are just in Cyrillic?


New signs have to be with both scripts. Since not all of the signs are changed tough, we still have a lot of signs, written only in Cyrillic (mainly inside cities and off the main roads).


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## banjaluka (Feb 4, 2010)

mirza-sm said:


> Entrance from Croatia to the city of Neum, the coastal city in Bosnia & Herzegovina


Isn´t this sign for the country?


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## banjaluka (Feb 4, 2010)

This is for my town


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## Barciur (Dec 6, 2009)

> So only the white/black sign means you have to drive 50 km/h?


That is correct, as this is a sign used for marking entrance to any town even very small village.

Also, those types of signs were also used for cities before and they meant beginning of the city AND built up area - I believe they are no longer used in favour of a green sign + built up area sign combo... nonetheless, this is a picture from a video I took in about 2004 I believe.










Here is how it looks like because quality of the other video is horrible nonetheless I wanted to show you how it looked in real life.


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## aswnl (Jun 6, 2004)

ALL Dutch town-limit signs: http://borden.plaatsengids.nl/
(Site in Dutch; simply navigate to provinces and choose town name)

Normal Dutch sign (up: new; down: old). The sign indicates a speed limit 50 km/h zone.
















When the town is part of a greater municipality. Also speed limit 50.















_The Swifterbant example indicates also how the end of a town is being signed: with a red dash trough the sign._

Sign for a neighbourhood. This white sign has no effect on the speed limit.


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## Norkey (Apr 12, 2006)

mirza-sm said:


> Yeah I know that Czechs and Slovaks dont use SZ, Polish and Hungarians do, but Slovaks and Czechs use W instead of V and Y instead of I sometimes, so we in Bosnia find it cool, cuz we dont use those words. I actually do hate when spoiled Bosnian teens use "W" in facebook instead of "V" like "Wolim teeeeee" instead of "Volim te".


Using W is also quite popular here, mostly among teenagers.. widim to celkem pozitiwně. 

official:
















Most of the towns use also "Welcome" signs, some also signs to show their partner cities - but there are no regulations how they should look...


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## mirza-sm (Jul 28, 2005)

banjaluka said:


> Isn´t this sign for the country?


Yeh, its both actually, entrance in the country and the city of Neum


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## domtoren (Jan 20, 2009)

*Old border*










This one is on a road between Delft and Rotterdam, in a divided village Zweth/De Zweth (an okd name meaning border) now it's still the limit between Midden Delfland and Rotterdam municipalities.


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## piotr71 (Sep 8, 2009)

It was my first trip out of London back to 2004, just after I moved to England.


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## Patrick (Sep 11, 2002)

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ortstafel


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

A few random signs from my archive

Leaving Vilnius on A2 (Lithuania)









Decorative sign of Vilnius entering on A3 (Lithuania)









Couple of signs of some small villages in Western part of Lithuania


















Lithuania sign entering from Poland on some non-numbered forest road. The sign cas clearly stayed here since pre-EU times... seemingly noone bothered to change it









Same on the Polish side. Old sign









Munich










Salzburg


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## Richie D. (Feb 6, 2010)

The Salzburg sign looks very much non-standard. At least it doesn't use the usual font used for Austrian road signs.


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## Pansori (Apr 26, 2006)

A couple more from Lithuania











Part of the sign to the left is missing in the photo. The full name of that town is "Naujieji Zadvarninkai".... try pronouncing that (even for Lithuanians it's not that easy)


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## domtoren (Jan 20, 2009)

*Former Eastern Prussia / Kaliningrad oblast*










Majevka 










Kaliningrad 

Village and city entrance signs in the Kaliningrad oblast (part of the former German Eastern Prussia).


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## domtoren (Jan 20, 2009)

*Entering my city*










The entrance sign to Utrecht, the fourth city of the Netherlands


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## Varzuga (Jul 5, 2009)

Russia, Veps National Volost 
village Sheltozero (Russian: Шёлтозеро; Finnish: Soutjärvi; Vepsian: Šoutjärv`; Karelian: Šoutjärvi)








Vepsians


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## domtoren (Jan 20, 2009)

*Night entrance to Utrecht*










The city sign of Utrecht on the old road from Amsterdam


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## domtoren (Jan 20, 2009)

NO ENTRANCE city sign anno 1625 
This is a post which indicated the limits of municipal jurisdiction of Amsterdam, placed along Amstel River in 1625. TERMINUS PROSCRIPTIONIS - Uijterste Palen der Ballingen means "extreme limit for the banned", those who were prohibited from living in or entering Amsterdam city limits were warned, do not proceed beyond this point!


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## woutero (Jan 14, 2008)

Some areas in The Netherlands have bilingual signs. Here are some examples from Friesland:

Dutch first, Frisian second:









Frisian first, Dutch second:


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## Richie D. (Feb 6, 2010)

Germany also has a few bilingual city entrance signs. Here's an example of one such a sign in Bautzen. The sign is in both in German and in Sorbic.


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## Patrick (Sep 11, 2002)

I like the signs in Luxemburg as they also use their local dialect. Unfortunately I dont find a picture.


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## Tego (Oct 24, 2006)

"Welcome to Sofia:"


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## almere2009 (Jan 19, 2010)




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## seem (Jun 15, 2008)

Štrbské Pleso in High Tatras










Slovakia also has a few bilingual city entrance signs.


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Switzerland 

Drive in :



Drive out : On top is the name of the next village,on bottom with distance of the next bigger village 



And they have white ones.I belive this mean you dont realy drive thru a village,so no speed-limit, but you should know how the surrounding is called


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## estlander (May 21, 2009)

Tallinn sign

And Mulgimaa sign:


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## Uppsala (Feb 26, 2010)

*Sweden:*


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## Ingenioren (Jan 18, 2008)

Unfortunatly we don't have the signs saying Urban area like most countries in Europe, i only know of one:
http://maps.google.no/?ie=UTF8&ll=5...ad4lhlGqi8WnSAAIkbmlLQ&cbp=12,265.363747,,0,0

Rather there is just a 50-limit sign at the entrance of urban area.

Here is the sign at entrance to all municipalities (kommune) on national roads, former national roads and a few more:









Here is the sign at that shows a placename sometime at village entry, not used so often either - doesn't say that you enter 50-limit:


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## Gareth (Apr 27, 2004)

^^ Likewise, the UK doesn't have the urban area signs either.

Local authorities do put their own welcome signs up though...










And when leaving urban areas, you see these signs...










These signs mean that the Natonal Speed Limit is now in force; which is 60mph on single roads and 70mph on dual carriageways. Often, continuous white lines start appear on the edge of the road too, as shown here, to help mark the edge, as often, NSL roads have no streetlights or clear kerbs and it discourages parking & stopping.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

Zagor666 said:


> And they have white ones.I belive this mean you dont realy drive thru a village,so no speed-limit, but you should know how the surrounding is called


Blue signs don't mean 50 km/h either, you need the "Generell" 50-km/h sign for that. I'm not sure about white signs, but I think they're placed on non-national roads, and perhaps they actually mean 50 km/h, since you usually find them on narrower roads.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

Slovenian city limit signs are rather boring. Here's a bilingual sign (Slovenian-Italian):


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

This photo, taken by SCC member Lampião2000 shows a Portuguese entrance sign. Usually the "50" sign that you can see a bit further up the road is on top of the town name sign's top left corner.










Most small villages and towns have these signs, larger places sometimes have them, sometimes don't or sometimes only have them in some places. My town in Portugal, Figueira da Foz has none. Normally, they aren't placed at a jurisdiction border.
---
I have never seen one for London before, although sometimes there is a sign with the name of the borough.


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Germany : - Drive in 



Drive out


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## Glodenox (Mar 26, 2007)

This is what they look like in Belgium:

First off there's the administrative border sign, which doesn't mean anything for drivers, except notifying them which area they've just entered. Note that the second name mentioned is the "parent town". To ease administration, towns and cities have been clustered together as one administrative unit.











Further on we've got these city/town entrance signs in white, which shows the same information as the administrative sign, but starting from this sign, the maximum speed is 50 km/h (unless signed otherwise). In this case, there's also a ban on the parking of any vehicles that weigh over 3.5 tonnes.











There are also signs indicating you're entering another province, which - like administrative signs - have no effect on the speed limit.

















In the case of Vlaams Brabant (the one on the left), it is a combination of the administrative sign and province sign.

Greetings,
Glodenox


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## Christophorus (May 22, 2009)

finally found my absolute favorite in Upper Silesia! A good day to all :colgate:








[/url] Dobrodzień von Tomasz Nowak auf Flickr[/IMG]


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## VITORIA MAN (Jan 31, 2013)

a nice one from spain http://casasruralesdelagomera.es/casarural.php?mod=txtCas&id=5516&idmsg=79


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## VITORIA MAN (Jan 31, 2013)

from spain
limit sign ( region and province )
















Village entrance sign http://www.foro-ciudad.com/castellon/canet-lo-roig/fotos/1234-entrada-pueblo.html
















here , showing the name of the village , interest points to visit , county ..
natural park entrance sign http://alhamalinares.blogspot.com.es/2013/02/aguilar-del-rio-alhama-inauguracion-de.html








tourist route
















tourist village


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Serbia :cheers:


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## ulrico (Jan 8, 2010)

Zurich/2004


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## NordikNerd (Feb 5, 2011)




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## volodaaaa (Apr 9, 2013)

Well, regarding this topic I think, we should distinguish


"Welcome to" signs and
Traffic signs which determines the general speed limit

According my experience, in some countries it is the same, while in others there is a difference between. 

But in my honest opinion, this is something what should be unified.


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

Officiall village, city and town entrance signs usually marks the beginning of built up area speedlimits, without actually placing speedlimit signs.


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Road_UK said:


> Officiall village, city and town entrance signs usually marks the beginning of built up area speedlimits, without actually placing speedlimit signs.


Its interesting that somewhere they put a speed sign together with the entrance sing although its not necessary :cheers:


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## volodaaaa (Apr 9, 2013)

^^^^ Having found an old 60´ traffic rules book from Czechoslovakia, I have noticed some interesting no longer valid traffic rules:


If there was a speed limit sign attached on the same pole as city/settlement entering sign, the displayed speed limit was meaned as general speed limit entirely for the municipality. Currently, the speed limit sign is valid only to the next intersection.
From 22.00 to 6.00 the general speed limits in built-up areas were changed to same speed limits as for uninhabited areas (e.g. 90 km/h in cities). But this might be really dangerous regarding current traffic density.


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## narkelion (Sep 28, 2012)

An example of Italian sign:










"Bandiera Blu" (Blue Flag) is something that is given to cities in which the sea is very good and absolutely unpolluted. This sign is here: http://goo.gl/maps/SrWOA

Another one, old, that is not official: 











And finally a curiosity: Rome sign is put everywhere, except on the real municipality borders. :lol: One, for example, is here: 










Located just outside of A24 motorway that brings inside the city. But we are something like 10/12 km inside the municipality borders!


http://goo.gl/maps/cRdN3 : if you look at the map, you can see clearly that almost 50% of Rome is before that sign. :lol::lol:


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

^^ That's just because of the motorway.


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## Road_UK (Jun 20, 2011)

Yes. Motorways never fall under built up areas, no matter how deep inside...


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## narkelion (Sep 28, 2012)

Verso said:


> ^^ That's just because of the motorway.


But there are no sign in previous exits.:lol::lol:


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

They do in some countries/cities, like Budapest, Bratislava, Belgrade ...


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## volodaaaa (Apr 9, 2013)

Verso said:


> They do in some countries/cities, like Budapest, Bratislava, Belgrade ...


I'm about to spit over my own nest, but Slovak system is kind of b......t.

It was only few years ago since the first motorway through city was opened in Bratislava (2002). First, the National motorway company decided to keep the speed limit 130 kph on that motorway, whereas every exit in city was marked by motorway-end and city-entrance sign.

But then they have introduced the following crap: Along with common three types of general speed limit in case of most countries (motorways, unihabited areas, inhabited areas), fourth has been created (motorway in inhabited areas)!

The speed limit for motorways within inhabited areas is 90 kph, but is barely noted on some border crossings:









Moreover, on some of them is still missing.

Then the information sign is installed just few metres before you enter the city. But it can easily remain unnoticed (e.g. if you overtakes a truck with trailer):










And this is the motorway entrance to city









Yeah, the important city-entrance sign, which changes the speed limit is the one with white background just above the motorway sign. Legible as hell especially for foreign drivers.

The entire section of motorway in Bratislava is equiped by panels with changeable traffic signs. Therefore you might expect displaying the speed limit 90 kmh on each of them.

But the pannels were installed together with the motorway construction. Since they first determined the speed limit to 130 kph, the pannels are able to show only speed limits 40,60,80,100,130 so LOOOOOOL F.you, it displays nothing but green arrow









Lot of foreigners usually exceeds the speed limit on that motorway, but I totally understand why. Obviously, the police like to measure and catch them. If you exceed the speed limit over 40 kmh (you drove 130 kph and had to drive 90 kph), the fine is tasty 360 Eu. Welcome to Slovakia and have a nice day.


Once I have proposed that on one forum:
http://i37.tinypic.com/99far7.jpg

It might clarify the unclear situation either for domestic or foreign drivers. But I think, the police likes and appreciates the current state more.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

^^ They have something similar to your proposal in Belgrade:









http://www.panoramio.com/photo/15684567

(the green sign in the back with a speed limit of 80 km/h)


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## volodaaaa (Apr 9, 2013)

Verso said:


> ^^ They have something similar to your proposal in Belgrade:
> 
> 
> http://www.panoramio.com/photo/15684567
> ...


Yeah, despite of lacking changeable traffic sings, I really appreciate speed limit sign (80 kph) repeated regularly. It is clear for all drivers


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

We used to have some unofficial blue signs on urban expressways, but they were put quite randomly. Here is an example from the G2-104 expressway entering Ljubljana:










The H3 through northern Ljubljana didn't have these signs, neither did the H2 through Maribor, but there was such a sign on the H5 entering Koper. Now it's a bit funny; you drive on the H5 and H6 and when you're almost out of Koper already, the H6 expressway ends and there's a yellow sign for Koper and 1 km later the end of it.


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## volodaaaa (Apr 9, 2013)

Verso said:


> We used to have some unofficial blue signs on urban expressways, but they were put quite randomly. Here is an example from the G2-104 expressway entering Ljubljana:
> 
> 
> 
> The H3 through northern Ljubljana didn't have these signs, neither did the H2 through Maribor, but there was such a sign on the H5 entering Koper. Now it's a bit funny; you drive on the H5 and H6 and when you're almost out of Koper already, the H6 expressway ends and there's a yellow sign for Koper and 1 km later the end of it.


I've experienced that many times in Hungary. There were white signs, blue signs, even green signs. It is really confusing.

Planners often confuse communal boundaries with boundaries of built-up areas in Slovakia too and place the city-entrance sign on communal borders. It is obviously a crap, because in Slovakia (and I bet in most of other countries so far) every place belong to any municipality.


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Germany :cheers:


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

Wow, that's terrible.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Dutch cities are de-facto like that as well. Only major collector roads and arterials have a 50 km/h speed limit these days. 70 km/h has been removed in quite a number of cities, leaving the bulk of the street network at 30 and only some select roads at 50 km/h.

But given France's love affair with speed cameras and fining from 1 km/h too fast, you can see where this could go... 30 km/h is too slow once you leave the narrow and dense streets behind.

In the Netherlands, 30 km/h speed limits are usually not enforced very strictly. I don't know of any speed camera in a 30 zone.


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Verso said:


> Sankt Goarshausen, once I stayed overnight in a camp there.


Yeah, i remmember you. You were that guy with a Olimpija Ljubljana Flag over his trailer :cheers:

Welcome to Ljubljana, drive carefully and watch out, rich people driving out :colgate:


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

Italians boasting with their Ferraris. :lol:


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## Sponsor (Mar 19, 2006)

Verso said:


> Wow, that's terrible.


Why terrible? The average speed in city is usually around 30 km/h anyway. The difference is that in properly organised 30-zone you get around smoothly, with less stops instead of going faster between intersections and stopping at red lights. 

I guess that in Grenoble wider collecting streets are excluded from 30-zone.


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## Kemo (Jan 22, 2012)

Sponsor said:


> Why terrible? The average speed in city is usually around 30 km/h anyway.


But it is not possible to maintain average speed of 30 km/h if it is the speed limit.


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## BriedisUnIzlietne (Dec 16, 2012)

It seems that in London city center the average speed of cars is just ~16 km/h so having 30 km/h limits would make sense there.
http://www.treehugger.com/cars/traffic-central-london-moves-same-speed-horse-drawn-carriages.html

But Grenoble is significantly smaller than London so the average speed was probably around 30 km/h. In England the average speed is 38 km/h.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...-rush-hours-slower-second-World-War-tank.html


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

One of the reasons why London doesn't top Travel Time Index (TTI) lists is that the off-peak speeds are so low that there isn't much difference with peak hour speeds.


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## OulaL (May 2, 2012)

Zagor666 said:


>


What is L36?


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## CNGL (Jun 10, 2010)

BriedisUnIzlietne said:


> It seems that in London city center the average speed of cars is just ~16 km/h so having 30 km/h limits would make sense there.
> http://www.treehugger.com/cars/traffic-central-london-moves-same-speed-horse-drawn-carriages.html


They would rather have 32 km/h limits instead. The reason for such a weird limit is that they still put road distances in miles, and by extension speed limits in miles per hour. So it's not that weird when seen in mph (32 km/h is 20 mph).


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

OulaL said:


> What is L36?


Landesstraße 36. State Road 36. It connects Telfs with Seefeld.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

Sponsor said:


> I guess that in Grenoble wider collecting streets are excluded from 30-zone.


That's possible. General speed limit in urban areas in Slovenia is 50 km/h, but there are some roads with speed limit 60 and 70 km/h. But 30 km/h is still very slow, it should be at least 40 km/h.


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## OulaL (May 2, 2012)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Landesstraße 36. State Road 36. It connects Telfs with Seefeld.


Speed limit area except on a certain road (without additional signs on streets crossing that road)? Well I never. But thanks anyway.


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## Kanadzie (Jan 3, 2014)

I wonder what the deal is with "Landesstrasse"
You see them marked on Googlemap or whatever
But when driving around Germany I never have seen any reference to them at all (unlike typical autobahn or bundesfernstrasse )

I wonder if the situation is similar to how county roads in Ontario Canada were treated, where they were virtually never signed from provincially-run roads (but changing now)


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## Sponsor (Mar 19, 2006)

Verso said:


> That's possible. General speed limit in urban areas in Slovenia is 50 km/h, but there are some roads with speed limit 60 and 70 km/h. But 30 km/h is still very slow, it should be at least 40 km/h.


Approach to city limits is under comprehensive transportation policy. City is not a place dedicated to drive in, but for its citizens to live in.
As I said you can't go faster on average, so calming traffic and improwing flow is a good thing. Not speaking about particular Grenoble case, but in general.


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## BriedisUnIzlietne (Dec 16, 2012)

And slower speeds are better when it comes to cars hitting pedestrians as the fatality rate grows exponentially.

But it seems that people can't decide on what the actual fatality rates are. A quick Google search revealed that some predict very optimistic 93% chance of survival at 50 km/h while others claim 45% change of survival. wtf?

By this graph the pedestrian death risk grows by 350% (from ~10% to ~35%) if the speed is 40 instead of 30 km/h.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

Sponsor said:


> Approach to city limits is under comprehensive transportation policy. City is not a place dedicated to drive in, but for its citizens to live in.
> As I said you can't go faster on average, so calming traffic and improwing flow is a good thing. Not speaking about particular Grenoble case, but in general.


It would be even safer if speed limit were 10 km/h, so we'll just continue to disagree.


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## BriedisUnIzlietne (Dec 16, 2012)

Everything that is not the laws of nature or mathematics is purely subjective so it's perfectly understandable that such things lead to disagreement.


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## Sponsor (Mar 19, 2006)

Verso said:


> It would be even safer if speed limit were 10 km/h, so we'll just continue to disagree.


Yeah, I can read that kind of arguments every time media pop out an article about traffic calming.

'Let's prohibit driving car, will be safer111!!'
'Lower that to 0 km/h, no accidents then!!!!11'

The graphic posted [email protected] shows how the exact 30 km/h is a compromise between cars and pedestrians. 
And it's not only about safety but also about noise, aesthetics and better land use (slower speeds requires less space), lower maintance costs (almost no traffic lights). Not sure about air pollution as driving at that speed usually consumes more fuel. 

I understand someone can dislike the idea but denominating it as 'terrible' while it's being implemented worldwide as successfull sollution is just an ignorance.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

30 km/h is quickly too slow on a road that was designed for 50 km/h. People tend to go over the 30 limit as soon as there is two or three hundred meters of straight, sufficiently wide road for two cars to pass.

30 km/h is appropriate in dense urban cores with lots of pedestrians, cyclists, parked cars and narrow streets, but a city-wide 30 km/h limit is too low. But I suppose that in Grenoble, major streets and arterials are excluded from the 30 zone.

edit: they did in fact exclude some major routes from 30 km/h.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

Sponsor said:


> The graphic posted [email protected] shows how the exact 30 km/h is a compromise between cars and pedestrians.


What compromise are you talking about? Cars drive on roads, pedestrians walk on sidewalks. Those few times you need to cross a road, you just need to be a little careful if there's no traffic light.



Sponsor said:


> I understand someone can dislike the idea but denominating it as 'terrible' while it's being implemented worldwide as successfull sollution is just an ignorance.


I _denominated_ it as terrible, because I dislike the idea.


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## OulaL (May 2, 2012)

Verso said:


> What compromise are you talking about? Cars drive on roads, pedestrians walk on sidewalks. Those few times you need to cross a road, you just need to be a little careful if there's no traffic light.


Especially, those few times you need to drive a road that somebody might need to cross, you just need to be a little careful. In towns this just happens to be the case more often than elsewhere.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

OulaL said:


> Especially, those few times you need to drive a road that somebody might need to cross, you just need to be a little careful. In towns this just happens to be the case more often than elsewhere.


You usually need to drive over pedestrian crossings much more often than you need to cross a road as a pedestrian. And you can be careful with 50 km/h too. After all, despite pedestrians having priority on pedestrian crossings, it's still a road. You do much more damage to drivers who have to drive 30 km/h than to pedestrians who just need to be a little careful. Remember, if you wanna get somewhere quickly, you don't walk, you take a car. Also, as a pedestrian I'm always careful when crossing a road (and it doesn't bother me), because I know it would hurt me much more than it would hurt the driver that hit me.


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## Kanadzie (Jan 3, 2014)

^^ you touch on the argument that I find rather droll about chance of survival at impact speeds

I mean, why not just avoid hitting the pedestrian entirely instead of running him over at 30 km/h? :lol:


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## OulaL (May 2, 2012)

Verso said:


> You usually need to drive over pedestrian crossings much more often than you need to cross a road as a pedestrian. And you can be careful with 50 km/h too. After all, despite pedestrians having priority on pedestrian crossings, it's still a road. You do much more damage to drivers who have to drive 30 km/h than to pedestrians who just need to be a little careful. Remember, if you wanna get somewhere quickly, you don't walk, you take a car. Also, as a pedestrian I'm always careful when crossing a road (and it doesn't bother me), because I know it would hurt me much more than it would hurt the driver that hit me.


Depends on the location and the distance. In many urban areas it is actually faster to walk, or ride a bike.

The reason for lowering speed limits in urban areas is not only increased pedestrian safety; it is also smoother traffic to other drivers as well (those driving across or joining the main road), and reduced noise.

Long distance drivers often underestimate the importance of local traffic.


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## BriedisUnIzlietne (Dec 16, 2012)

Verso said:


> You do much more damage to drivers who have to drive 30 km/h


How big a damage? For the 700 meters it takes to get from the furthest point in the Grenoble's 30 km/h zone to the nearest 50 km/h street a driver will add around 34 seconds to the average 20 minute commute. If 34 seconds is worth the risks in safety...

I agree to ChrisZwolle that the street design pretty much dictates the speed more than signage. Since the speed limits get introduced exactly in the dense urban cores and not on the main streets, I suppose that those areas were ripe for 30 km/h.

As to Kanadzie, I've read that slower speeds increase the visual field of drivers, making "why not just avoid hitting the pedestrian entirely?" a more frequently possible option 
http://www.streetsblog.net/2015/04/07/the-critical-difference-between-30-mph-and-20-mph/

Disclaimer: I am quite biased against cars, because I don't have a driver's license and have only ever driven in the countryside. I am all for constructive arguments.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

BriedisUnIzlietne said:


> How big a damage? For the 700 meters it takes to get from the furthest point in the Grenoble's 30 km/h zone to the nearest 50 km/h street a driver will add around 34 seconds to the average 20 minute commute. If 34 seconds is worth the risks in safety...


I'll say it in general here, as I'm not familiar with Grenoble, I've only been there once. It's not just 700 meters. You can drive around the city, go to another 30-km/h zone and do that more than once a day. Every day. I become nervous driving so slowly. And we're off-topic.


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## Sponsor (Mar 19, 2006)

Verso said:


> What compromise are you talking about? Cars drive on roads, pedestrians walk on sidewalks. Those few times you need to cross a road, you just need to be a little careful if there's no traffic light.


I have already explained it. Let's say it's the highest speed that doesn't kill instantly. And what's the most important it's more friendly to the citizens than 50 km/h.
Again - city is not proper place for car and cars are not the most important mode of transport. Pedestrians, cyclists and public transport are.



Verso said:


> You usually need to drive over pedestrian crossings much more often than you need to cross a road as a pedestrian.


I said it's not only about safety and pedestrians crossing street. You don't realize how much noise a single car going 50 km/h emit if you sit in cosy interior. 



Verso said:


> You do much more damage to drivers who have to drive 30 km/h than to pedestrians who just need to be a little careful.


Damage? What damage? I don't feel damaged, abused or hurt while driving car 30 km/h along tempo30's street. I sit comfortable and just drive.



Verso said:


> Remember, if you wanna get somewhere quickly, you don't walk, you take a car.


Traffic calming doesn't decrease journey speed. I've already said it - average speed in cities is around 30 km/h. The difference is that in zone-30 you don't stop on lights and just drive smoothly thourgh intercsections. 



Verso said:


> You can drive around the city, go to another 30-km/h zone and do that more than once a day.


If you go further distance you'll eventually hit some wider collecting street and speed-up. 



Verso said:


> I become nervous driving so slowly


Maybe you are too impatient to drive? 
Anyway those zone-30's are not only denoted by signs. There are bottlenecks, priority to the right intersections, narrow lanes, shared spaces, sometime bumps, no pedestrian crossings, no traffic lights. It's not that you have straight and flat all the way ahead.


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## Kanadzie (Jan 3, 2014)

^^ how can the driving be smoother if they put in narrow lanes, bumps and chicanes?
it sounds like the people would be lucky to move at 10 km/h


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## Sponsor (Mar 19, 2006)

Because there are less cars in zone-30 and (again) no traffic lights. On normal 50 km/h street amplitudes of velocity are higher as you speed up to 50 km/h but stop more often. Zone-30 enables constant driving and rare and short stops. And remember that bumps or leveled-up areas are usually at intersections where you need to slow down a little anyway.

We got much off-topic here, what about new thread about traffic calming and shared spaces?


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

This is the coolest city entrance sign there is. unfortunately many people think like that and steal this sign so you can not be sure if there is one when you drive by :cheers:


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Germany :cheers:


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)




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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Germany :cheers:


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## Kanadzie (Jan 3, 2014)

^^ I like that last one. Wilkommen bei Hegenberg. End of the world :lol:


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Kanadzie said:


> ^^ I like that last one. Wilkommen bei Hegenberg. End of the world :lol:


It realy is like the end of the world. Hard to find without a navigation system


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## Kpc21 (Oct 3, 2008)

Polish signs, especially the bilingual ones, have already been shown, but now more details about that.

The current official version of the city/town/vilage entrance sign looks so (of course, without these stickers):










And it's only just the city/town/village entrance. It doesn't denote any area with a 50 km/h (60 km/h in the night) speed limit.

The built-up area with the speed limit is invoked by this sign:










There is a sign forbidding overpassing by trucks under the built-up area sign, which means that it holds in the whole built-up area. So, actually, in the whole city.

By the way, behind it, you can see the official (from the catalog of the official road signs) "welcome to" sign, showing the most important landmarks of the city, or other important facts about it. Unfortunately in this case it's so small that it doesn't really make any sense. I was driving there almost every day for something like 2 years and I still don't remember what is on this sign - because it's so small that it's impossible to read it driving 50 km/h (not to mention that the traffic there is usually much faster and noone follows the speed limit).

Some cities have also their own, commercial, welcome-to signs.

Kraków:










Not a really interesting sign. Just the coat of arms and "Welcome to Kraków - The City of Polish Kings".

Włocławek:










This is this bilboard in the right upper corner. "Włocławek welcomes". I wouldn't say I really feel invited by this sign... The car (truck) wash commercial just behind it is visible much better!

They are much more popular among smaller towns and municipalities.

Brzeziny near Łódź:










"Brzeziny - Welcome". And the coats of arms of the twin towns.

Rawa Mazowiecka, a bit further away from Łódź (still qute close):










Next to the statue there are spatial letters creating the words: Rawa Mazowiecka.

Łowicz, also not far away from Łódź:










"Łowicz welcomes".

There are also signs denoting borders of voivodships, counties and municipalities. But, unfortunately, they are often full of errors.

Zgierz County:










OK, the county changes, but the municipality has to change as well. Where is its name? Noone knows.

Here it's correct - Zgierz County, Stryków Municipality:










By the way, all these signs are not written correctly in Polish. The names of administrative districts written as adjectives (like powiat zgierski - Zgierz County, województwo łódzkie - Łódź Voivodship) should be written with small letters. Only those written as nouns (like gmina Stryków - Stryków Municipality) are written with capitals. But it seems someone decided that capital letters look better graphically and didn't care at all about the language correctness.

Another option. City-County Łódź:










Why is it a few hundred meters before the green sign with just the city name (the one from the first photo)? I have no idea. The border of the city is also the border of the county (it's a city with county laws), so they should be exactly in the same place.

At the beginning I wrote that the green city entrance signs don't introduce built-up area with a speed limit - there is a separate sign for that (like in some other European countries - but not in all of them). But it hasn't always been so. Before, let's say, until the 90's, there existed entrance signs that combined those two functions. They were white with black letters. And their remainders are still present in the country.

An example. Because the entrance sign has been totally censored by Google, let's see the exit sign, and the entrance sign to the next village (which is, by the way, in a different county and municipality). This sign is correct, although it's quite old:










The warning sign against farm animals (not only cows, as those unaccustomed to European road signs may think  ) is present under the sign with the village name, which means, the warning is valid within the whole village. Same as before with the overpassing by trucks forbidden.

All the exit signs (for both the green entrance signs and the white built-up area signs, also for those old signs which are no more valid) are same as the entrance signs, but they are crossed red. There is no exit signs for the voivodship/county/municipality signs. While a village can just end and there can be some area with no village, when a municipality ends, a new one must begin - there cannot be any "no man's land".

All the photos from Google Street View.


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## g-n-r (Sep 27, 2008)

Some nices in Marseille


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## Xicano (Jan 27, 2014)




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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Belgium


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## Corvinus (Dec 8, 2010)

^^ That's better than _Monster_ I photographed in the Netherlands.


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## NordikNerd (Feb 5, 2011)

Danielk2 said:


> Danish town entrance sign


Looks somewhat similar to our swedish city/village entrance signs:









Entering Bankekind








Exiting Bankekind 600m after the entrance sign.


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Germany 



Luxembourg


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## The Polwoman (Feb 21, 2016)

ChrisZwolle said:


> 30 km/h is quickly too slow on a road that was designed for 50 km/h. People tend to go over the 30 limit as soon as there is two or three hundred meters of straight, sufficiently wide road for two cars to pass.
> 
> 30 km/h is appropriate in dense urban cores with lots of pedestrians, cyclists, parked cars and narrow streets, but a city-wide 30 km/h limit is too low. But I suppose that in Grenoble, major streets and arterials are excluded from the 30 zone.
> 
> edit: they did in fact exclude some major routes from 30 km/h.




Indeed, that is also going to become a problem in some Dutch cities, to take an example, Utrecht (the small ring). The tiny efforts they want to do now for calming traffic aren't sufficient for their ambition, it needs a totally different approach if they want to keep that speed limit working well. It always has to match the infrastructure at the specific location. Tilburg has a speed limit of 50km/h on the Cityring, which we commonly call the Downtown Speedway. 100km/h is extremely dangerous but common on many stretches especially along the Paleisring, well-known for many pedestrians passing by.


But most annoying of all: placing the entrance signs of cities, towns and villages too far out of the core, enforcing urban speed limits on a rural road. So how would it be crazy that people are hating any initiative for traffic calming elsewhere?


Yes indeed. I'm not going to drive 30 on a rural, paved road of 6m wide with separated cycling infrastructure if I would have a license :cheers:


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## Nimróad (Jun 12, 2016)

Zalaegerszeg, Hungary
From right to left


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## bratislav (Sep 23, 2012)

Novi Sad 3 1/2 years ago.


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## NordikNerd (Feb 5, 2011)

^^ Wartburgs in Serbia in 2014 ? :hmm:


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## naruciakk (Apr 27, 2013)

NordikNerd said:


> ^^ Wartburgs in Serbia in 2014 ? :hmm:


Why not, either enthusiast or just a person who doesn't need to change the car. There are such people.


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## bratislav (Sep 23, 2012)

NordikNerd said:


> ^^ Wartburgs in Serbia in 2014 ? :hmm:


It was Wartburg with Split (Dalmatia, HR) plates, and he was in transit thru NS towards north of Europe, and at the end it was in year 2013, end of september. Btw, you can still find such cars all over former Eastern block.


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## bratislav (Sep 23, 2012)

In 4 different languages: serbian (cyrillic and latin), hungarian, slovak and rusyn.


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## volodaaaa (Apr 9, 2013)

bratislav said:


> In 4 different languages: serbian (cyrillic and latin), hungarian, slovak and rusyn.


Zrenjanin is better. There is a Romanian name apart from these 4.


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## Alex_ZR (Jan 6, 2008)

volodaaaa said:


> Zrenjanin is better. There is a Romanian name apart from these 4.


It depends from municipality to municipality. In Zrenjanin Romanian is one of the official languages (no Rusyn), while in Novi Sad Rusyn is among them.


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## x-type (Aug 19, 2005)

shouldn't it be Новий Сад in Rusyn?


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## Alex_ZR (Jan 6, 2008)

x-type said:


> shouldn't it be Новий Сад in Rusyn?


According to this it's Нови Сад.


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Germany :cheers:


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## Zagor666 (Feb 20, 2011)

Germany :cheers:

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/181028/jtl5xki8.jpg

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/181028/ldenptto.jpg


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## Clery (Dec 5, 2010)

bratislav said:


> In 4 different languages: serbian (cyrillic and latin), hungarian, slovak and rusyn.


I've been told Serbian written in latin alphabet is called Croatian?


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## bratislav (Sep 23, 2012)

Clery said:


> I've been told Serbian written in latin alphabet is called Croatian?


Sorry, but they told you wrong. Serbian language recognize both alpabets, cyrilic and latin


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## Sponsor (Mar 19, 2006)

But it's still the same thing :dunno:


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## Palance (Mar 23, 2005)

No. See this sign, Croatian in Latin, Serbian in cyrillic. Even if you would write the Serbian part in Latin, it would still differ from the Croatian text.


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