# LOS ANGELES - 2028 Summer Olympic Games | Games of the XXXIV Olympiad



## JJG (Aug 4, 2010)

Would it be a stretch to say that L.A. is the *PERFECT* city to host the Olympics?


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

^^ :nono: !! * PARIS* is!!! :bowtie:




:runaway:


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

JJG said:


> Would it be a stretch to say that L.A. is the *PERFECT* city to host the Olympics in 2028?


Fixed!  (and indeed I agree )


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## JJG (Aug 4, 2010)

Not sure if Paris has the same type of weather that L.A. typically has in the summer, but that's a reason why I say that.

Another is because of the already existing facilities and setting. Everything you need is already there.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

JJG said:


> because of the already existing facilities and setting. Everything you need is already there.


Same here... But you win indeed regarding the weather... unfortunately Paris is not on the Med' Sea shore.....I wish that was the case, but it isn't


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## -Corey- (Jul 8, 2005)

parcdesprinces said:


> ^^ :nono: !! * PARIS* is!!! :bowtie:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think they're both perfect for the Olympics. I grew up in San Diego, so I'm happy they got the Games.


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## JJG (Aug 4, 2010)

parcdesprinces said:


> Same here... But you win indeed regarding the weather... unfortunately Paris is not on the Med' Sea shore.....I wish that was the case, but it isn't


I just never knew how the weather typically is in Paris or even that part of Europe.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

So I thought with the start of this thread, it may be nice to look at the *current* state of everything, here in 2017, with 11 years to go! There's always talk about how prepared LA is to host, so let's see what's actually left to do! I'll try and go cluster by cluster:

*DOWNTOWN CLUSTER*

*LA COLISEUM - Current Status: Under renovation, renovations required*










The Coliseum will host the Athletic events and take part in the Opening and Closing Ceremonies. It's in the middle of renovations, with more planned. In addition, it will need to have an athletics track installed.

Here is the rendering for 2028:
Downtown Sports Park Rendering - LA Coliseum by Los Angeles 2028 Bid Committee, on Flickr

*LAFC STADIUM - Current Status: Under Construction*

Los Angeles Football Club by HunterKerhart.com, on Flickr

LAFC Stadium will host soccer, and will be completed in 2018. Here is the rendering for 2028:

Downtown Sports Park Rendering - LA Footbal Club by Los Angeles 2028 Bid Committee, on Flickr

*DEDEAUX FIELD - Current Status: Unbuilt*










So Dedeaux field will be the home of the Aquatics Center. As you can see, it doesn't exist yet! It's currently the home of USC baseball. The main swim stadium will have to be built from scratch. However, the warmup areas will be held at the Uytengsu Aquatics Center at USC, which is already built:










(Dedeaux Field is behind and to the left from this perspective). Here is the render for the whole complex in 2028:

Downtown Sports Park Rendering - USC Dedeaux Field by Los Angeles 2028 Bid Committee, on Flickr

*GALEN CENTER - Current Status: Ready to Go*










The Galen Center is the current home of the USC Basketball team, and will host Badminton and Taekwondo/Judo for the 2024 Olympics/Paralympics. It's ready to host today, and while there may be some cosmetic changes to it over the years to keep up the arena, nothing essential must be built. Here is the rendering for Paralympic Taekwondo in 2028:

Paralympic Taekwondo at USC Galen Center Still by Los Angeles 2028 Bid Committee, on Flickr

*STAPLES CENTER: Current Status: Ready to Go*

Oceanwide Plaza & Circa by HunterKerhart.com, on Flickr

The Staples Center is home to the NBA's Lakers and Clippers (_for now_), the Kings of NHL and the Sparks of the WNBA. For the Olympics it'll host basketball. Like the Galen Center it's ready to host today, and while there may be some cosmetic changes to it over the years to keep up the arena, nothing essential must be built. Here is the rendering for 2028:

103889724EG_OKC_Lkrs by Los Angeles 2028 Bid Committee, on Flickr

*MICROSOFT THEATER - Current Status: Ready to Go*

L.A. Live by STERLINGDAVISPHOTO, on Flickr

The Microsoft Theater mostly hosts concerts and ceremonies (it's hosting US Television's Emmy Awards this weekend) and for the Olympics it'll host weightlifting. It's ready to go today. Here is the rendering for 2028:

Downtown Sports Park Rendering - Microsoft Theater Weightlifting by Los Angeles 2028 Bid Committee, on Flickr

*LA CONVENTION CENTER - Current Status: Ready to Go (but renovations planned)*










The LA Convention Center will host a myriad of events in the Olympics and Paralympics in its three main halls. It could host them now, but between now and 2028 the Convention Center is planned to go through a major makeover, updating the center for the modern convention experience. Here's an old renovation plan:










And here are some renderings of the sports it will hold in 2028:

Downtown Sports Park Rendering - LA Convention Center Fencing by Los Angeles 2028 Bid Committee, on Flickr
Downtown Sports Park Rendering - LA Convention Center - Boxing by Los Angeles 2028 Bid Committee, on Flickr
Downtown Sports Park Rendering - LA Convention Center by Los Angeles 2028 Bid Committee, on Flickr

*GRAND PARK - Current Status: Ready to Go*










This is where the Marathon will start. Ready to go, here it is in the rendering for 2028:

Downtown Sports Park Rendering - City Hall by Los Angeles 2028 Bid Committee, on Flickr

-----------------

So, with all of that, here is where the Downtown Sports Park is as of 2017:

*DOWNTOWN SPORTS PARK

6 READY TO GO (some renovation planned at Convention Center)*
1 UNDER CONSTRUCTION
1 UNDER RENOVATION
1 UNBUILT

*6/9 FACILITIES/LOCATIONS OLYMPIC READY; 66.7%*


Feel free everybody to correct me on any of this, and when I have more time I'll go ahead and do this for all the clusters and see where we are! :cheers:


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## CaliforniaJones (Apr 9, 2009)

I consider the LA COLISEUM as the second center of Olympics, after the ancient city of Olympia, Greece.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

MrStools said:


> This venue has always seemed odd to me as well, as it would be expensive, would force USC baseball to play elsewhere for at least a year, and would leave no legacy (at least at that site). In addition, the location is a bit awkward.
> 
> There are two sites that I think could provide a better solution - Long Beach and Exposition Park.
> 
> ...



My man! The Expo Park is exactly what I've thought for awhile; great minds and all :lol:. I'm also intrigued by Long Beach; that's a great idea if they want to go the "legacy" route with an Aquatics Center. At the very least, as Kenni has mentioned before, they could put the swim/diving center somewhere that will at least look good on TV (or whatever we're watching in 2028)!

Well like you say with eleven years it'll work out, and at least we can all pitch our cases! :lol: :cheers:


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

So I was curious about the Long Beach plan Mr Stools mentioned, as I didn't know much about the Belmont Pool plan. Here are some renders from their website:


















































More renderings and architectural plans on their website: http://www.belmontpool.com/about_the_project.php

As of now, the plan is still going forward but it'll still be touch and go as to getting done:

*Long Beach Belmont pool complex moves forward, but has steep hill to climb*



> The next time the proposed Belmont Beach and Aquatics Center returns to City Council, it could be an entirely different project.
> 
> In a critical appeals hearing on Tuesday, the council voted 6-2 to certify a contested environmental impact report and advanced the project to the California Coastal Commission for review, although several officials acknowledged the state agency will likely require changes...
> 
> ...



So I may be nuts... but why isn't THIS the plan for the 2028 Aquatics Center?? You have a city ready to go that wants to build a permanent Olympic caliber swimming and diving facility, but needs some help raising funds. AND, it's on the beach and right alongside an already planned sports cluster! (sailing is next door on the beach and the rest of the events are a few blocks away)

I have to think the reasoning here is 1. they don't want to split up athletics and aquatics so drastically and (maybe more importantly) 2. the LA City Council wouldn't support moving one of the marquee events out of the city of LA. It could also be as simple as Long Beach never contacted LA 2024/28! Guess we will see :cheers:



*ETA*: Just to orient things, here is a screen grab of the Belmont Pool location in relation to the Long Beach Sports Park cluster:











So it's on the other side of the beach from the arena/convention center, with the Long Beach Sailing Events about equidistant between them. This puts the Belmont Pool facility about 2 miles/~3.22 kilometers from the Blue Line Metro and the Long Beach Sports Park. A bit of hike but not insurmountable, especially with dedicated Shuttle Buses from the Blue Line and maybe even a streetcar along Ocean blvd. by then :cheers:


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

^^^^ Wow, let's hold the swimming competitions there.....again like in 84. That looks great! It would need to be bigger tho. 





JJG said:


> Would it be a stretch to say that L.A. is the *PERFECT* city to host the Olympics?


Yeah, that's why the IOC would not LA go and decided to do a double award plus millions more $.

LA can host the Olympics tomorrow...no problem. Even without the new LA Stadium. Stadiums we have to spare. 

Think of where we were 2 years ago. Not even in the horizon, Boston won the US representation. LA stepped in last minute as a saviour when Boston bailed, and we get the Olympics. 

USOC couldn't do it with New York, Chicago.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Kenni said:


> Think of where we were 2 years ago.


Think of where LA was over 30 years ago when a lot of current facilities didn't exist. Yet because the signature parts of the 1984 Olympics were fairly well done - and because the state of the world was more modest back then - some of those blemishes weren't as glaring as they'd otherwise be.

That doesn't even include the very downbeat condition of central Los Angeles back then. 

Los Angeles in 2017 is a much more capable host of the games.

I also like the way the games of 2024 and 2028 were awarded. None of the cheap hoopla and tears of disappointment that other Olympic bid events have produced. 

I like Paris 24 and LA 28 getting awarded games and people in the two bid committees along with Parisians and Angelenos acting in a sober, serious manner.

As for sober and serious, I sure hope the LA committee has enough sense to avoid the hokey-jokey style of recent Olympics. 

Top officials of the US pretending to parachute into an LA stadium. Hell, no. Jimmy Kimmel and Jimmy Fallon pretending to play pianos while blowing their noses. God forbid. Katy Perry walking across the Coliseum to the strains of "I Love LA." Bullcrap.

It's all up to you, Casey Wasserman, etc. The ball in now in your court.

As for the people of LA, you'd better not dare repeat in 2028 the big joke of last Sunday's Rams game. That's where just about the entire Coliseum was dressed up as spectators made to look like empty seats. 

Even Rio 2016 wasn't that bad.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

Alrighty! Thought I'd take a look at the South Bay Sports Park in its current state, see what's left to do before 2028!:


*SOUTHBAY SPORTS CLUSTER*

*STUBHUB CENTER - Current Status: Ready to Go (some minor work required)*









https://twitter.com/StubHubCenter/st...35804966010880

The StubHub Center is the home of the LA Galaxy of MLS and the temporary home of the LA Chargers of the NFL. For 2028 it'll host Rugby and Modern Pentathlon, and Football five-a-side for the Paralympics. For Rugby and Soccer it's good to go, and for Modern Pentathlon it's good to go save a temporary above ground pool which will need to be constructed on site.

Here is the rendering for Modern Pentathlon for 2028:

South Bay StubHub Stadium Rendering - Modern Pentathlon (Shown) and Rugby (Not Shown) by Los Angeles 2028 Bid Committee, on Flickr


*STUBHUB TENNIS CENTER - Current Status: Ready to Go (some minor work required)*









(slightly dated photo)

The Tennis center will host tennis (what a shock! :lol It's ready to go now, though some temporary stands will be installed on the main court. Here is the rendering of the center in 2028:

South Bay Tennis Center Rendering - Tennis and Wheelchair Tennis by Los Angeles 2028 Bid Committee, on Flickr


*STUBHUB CENTER FIELDS - Current Status: Unbuilt*









(slightly dated)

The Stubhub center will also host Field Hockey. As you can see none of the stands are built! The main Field Hockey Stadium is in the render above and here is what the other temporary stadiums it will look like in 2028:

South Bay StubHub Rendering - Olympic Field Hockey and Paralympic Football 5-A-Side by Los Angeles 2028 Bid Committee, on Flickr


*STUBHUB VELO SPORTS CENTER - Current Status: Renovations Required*










The Velodrome Sports Center will be the Velodrome used for track cycling during the Olympics/Paralympics. As has been mentioned above, some significant renovations will be required, but we don't quite know the extent of what those will be yet! Regardless here is a rendering of the Velodrome during the 2028 Olympics:

South Bay StubHub Velo Sports Center - Olympic Track Cycling and Paralympic Road Cycling by Los Angeles 2028 Bid Committee, on Flickr

------------------

So with all of that, here is where we stand as of 2017!:

*SOUTHBAY SPORTS PARK

2 READY TO GO (some minor work required)*
1 UNBUILT
1 RENOVATION REQUIRED

*2/4 FACILITIES/LOCATIONS OLYMPIC READY; 50%*

*RUNNING TOTAL: 8/13 FACILITIES/LOCATIONS OLYMPIC READY; 61.5%*


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## CaliforniaJones (Apr 9, 2009)

Impressive pictures of venues.
Just one question: If 3X3 basketball is added for the 2028 Summer Olympics, where will it be played ?


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## CaliforniaJones (Apr 9, 2009)

DEL


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

^^ Good question! Tokyo will give us a clue I think in 2020. My guess is most likely the venues already hosting Basketball: the Staples Center, Convention Center and perhaps the proposed Clippers arena in Inglewood. Though if they wanted to do it "Rucker Park" style on a court in Venice Beach, that'd be pretty awesome to me! :cheers:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Many previous Olympic games have lacked a sort of human touch---another way of saying good judgment.

47 seconds into the newest video from LA28, Casey Wasserman alludes to an aspect of 1984. I hope that's a clue he realizes Olympic games deserve to be treated seriously and with a sense of dignity. 

We've had enough Schlock-o Fests and Goofy-Dorky Games. 

If 2020 ends up the opposite of the Anime games, if 2024 ends up the opposite of the Cirque du Soleil games, and if 2028 ends up the opposite of the pick-up trucks-cheerleaders games, the Olympics during the next 11 years will perform a hat trick.


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## CB31 (May 23, 2010)

^^

Wow every year LA is looking way more dry.

So guys, with the Mesure M in place normally how many new subways lines and streetcars lines will be operating by the time of the Games ?


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## CFCman (Dec 21, 2016)

Wow. Nice pics @ aquamaroon. 
Looks like the swimming arena will only have one side dedicated to spectators, which I find strange. 

Ideally, all the soccer stadia could all be in CA, with the new Las Vegas possibly serving as an additional venue. My picks for soccer would be:

Inglewood
Banc of California stadium 
San Diego (new 30,000-seater stadium)
Las Vegas
Santa Clara - Levi's stadium 
San Jose - San Jose Earthquakes 
Stanford university stadium


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> The things that make a difference between a beautiful city and one that needs work.


I recall your SSP handle being part of a discussion in the Los Angeles section, which I contributed to, about what type of civic improvements would have the greatest impact on the city. 

I mentioned the area just south of the Los Angeles Coliseum, north of King Blvd. It contains the type of old, half-crocked urban element that wasn't even corrected by the time the 1984 Olympics rolled around. 

I've read Los Angeles's DWP purposefully avoids cleaning up the city due in part to their not wanting their highly paid workers - I believe known as linemen - out of a future job. 

In dealing with such basic details, I hope the 2028 committee is more effective than the 1984 committee.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

pesto said:


> So a good time should be had with the housing at UCLA. It's like being in a luxury resort


LOL, have you ever been at the UCLA "dorms"/rooms (?)...'cause I did when I studied in the US (in Virginia in the early 2000s, but I used to visit some friends at UCLA back then)... Or maybe you've never been in a luxury hotel/resort... :dunno:


------------------


P.S. that said, UCLA campus (from outside; architecture, etc) is of course magnificent IMHO. :drool:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

parcdesprinces said:


> LOL, have you ever been at the UCLA "dorms"/rooms (?)...'cause I did when I studied in the US (in Virginia in the early 2000s, but I used to visit some friends at UCLA back then)... Or maybe you've never been in a luxury hotel/resort... :dunno:
> 
> 
> ------------------
> ...


I know them well. They have private swimming pools and exercise rooms; tennis courts immediately adjacent; a professional level track available. Two EPL stars, in LA to get medical treatment, do some filming and PR work, noted that the UCLA training facilities were the finest they had ever seen.

Many rooms have views over the surrounding mountains and high rises or toward the pools and recreational facilities. Low quality food service is on the premises and fine cuisine, ethnic cuisines and fast food a short walk away in the Village, where there is also live theater, contemporary shopping and classic motion picture theaters.

And you are right, the campus is quite attractive: primarily Romanesque in the center with modern versions of brick and stone spreading into the north campus and down through engineering and the medical center. After a few "modern" brick buildings were built in the 1960's, the tone of style and light decoration was revived and most newer buildings are quite attractive. 

Not literally like a premium resort, but quite unexpected for the average athlete who comes from a non-US housing environment.


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

UCLA is planning a major expansion for student housing (read: Olympic villiage).










*Lot 15*



















> Located in the campus' northwest zone, Lot 15 would see all existing structures removed to facilitate the construction of up to 1,800 undergraduate beds. Plans call for two mid-rise buildings, standing eight and ten stories in height, featuring approximately 353,000 square feet of total floor area
> 
> Laundry facilities, common living and lobby areas, a mail room, and a laundry facility would be included at Lot 15.
> 
> The Sunset Canyon Recreation Center is considered an alternative site to Lot 15, which is not currently used for parking.


*Warren Hall*



















> Warren Hall, located at the southwest zone of campus, would be demolished to allow for the construction of three mid-rise buildings standing between eight and ten stories in height. The total new construction would consist of 650,000 square feet of floor area, creating 488 beds for graduate students and 1,862 beds for undergraduate students.
> 
> Other uses at the Warren Hall site would include meeting spaces, a grab-and-go cafe, a mail room and laundry facilities.
> 
> An adaptive reuse of the building is also under consideriation in the project's environmental impact report.


*University Extension*


























> The University Extension site at Gayley and Le Conte Avenues is slated for the most ambitious component of the project. UCLA proposes to demolish an existing eight story structure to allow for the construction of a 20-story tower, featuring 1,350 upper-division undergraduate beds.
> 
> Plans also call for common study and meeting spaces, a mail room and laundry facilities.


*Bradley International Hall*


















> Two mid-rise structures are slated for the Bradley site, which is located along Gayley Avenue south of Drake Stadium. The seven- and eight-story buildings would total 122,000 square feet of space, featuring beds for 600 undergraduate students.
> 
> Other facilities at the Bradley site would include a dining hall, meeting space and laundry rooms.


*Drake Stadium*


















> The narrow space to the west of Drake Stadium is slated for a pair of nine-story structures. The two buildings would feature 800 undergraduate beds across 240,000 square feet of floor area.
> 
> Plans call for similar features to the other proposed building sties, as well as new space for athletic programs associated with the stadium.


https://urbanize.la/post/ucla-plans-major-expansion-student-housing-capacity


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Wow. Quite an expansion. Takes some strain off commuters and parking.

Now you get to choose if you want the dorms closer to the swimming pools and tennis courts or the ones closer to the dining, theater, galleries and medical center.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

pesto said:


> Wow. Quite an expansion. Takes some strain off commuters and parking.
> 
> Now you get to choose if you want the dorms closer to the swimming pools and tennis courts or the ones closer to the dining, theater, galleries and medical center.


Individual athletes won't have the choice. I don't know how much say they have in where they go, but teams are housed together in blocks or floors. Big teams like Russia, China, the US tend to end up with a whole block or tower to themselves. e.g. Australia in 2012...


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> Individual athletes won't have the choice. I don't know how much say they have in where they go, but teams are housed together in blocks or floors. Big teams like Russia, China, the US tend to end up with a whole block or tower to themselves. e.g. Australia in 2012...
> 
> /IMG]


Sorry, I was referring to the students at UCLA. The athletes are only there for a few days and I suppose the professionals make their own arrangements at the beaches or tonier neighborhoods (although Westwood is pretty nice on its own).

There are going to be some fabulous views from the tower at the old Extension building and from some of the hilltop sites. Even my room in one of the older dorms had views of the hills and playgrounds.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

> *Metro looks to accelerate 28 transportation projects in time for the 2028 Olympics
> Sounds great, but it won’t be easy
> BY MATT TINOCO OCT 6, 2017, 9:05AM PDT*
> 
> ...


https://la.curbed.com/2017/10/6/16433026/metro-bus-transit-projects-accelerated-olympics

Good article on the whole "28 by '28" Transit Program being formulated. The basic issue as mentioned is while Metro will be getting a new rush of funds from the passage of Measure M for these new projects, there are very specific legal ramifications attached to the money that Metro has to consider. Principally, Measure M funds have to be used in the way that the voters of LA County passed back in November of 2016. Which is a good thing imo! But also hampers Metro's ability to shift funds from less important projects over to more important projects to expedite their timeline (*:cough:*_GoldlineFoothillsExtension_*:cough:* *:cough:*_CrenshawNorthernExtension_*:cough:*)

My guess is that we will be seeing quite a bit of Public Private Partnerships (PPPs) come online to push the Metro timeline. They're also be a bit of hat in hand traveling to Washington, but with the current political situation Fed funds are probably dicey. Anyways this is all conjecture until the full plan is laid out, go 28 by '28! :cheers:


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

soup or man said:


> UCLA is planning a major expansion for student housing (read: Olympic villiage).
> 
> *Lot 15*
> 
> ...



Thanks for the links and the photos soup! Just to add on, wanted to write to say that Lot 15, shown above, is the specific housing addition that is shown in the render that LA 2028 put out (bottom left), and a little in the distance near Pauley Pavilion you can make out the render for what I believe is Bradley Hall:

Aerial view of the UCLA Campus by Los Angeles 2028 Bid Committee, on Flickr


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

In other city planning news, the construction firm AECOM has put together some incredible renderings on the plans for the LA River revitalization: "Will the LA River through Downtown ever look like this?" - from Curbed LA.

Outside of transit, the "re-greening" of the LA River may be the single most transformative civic project in time for 2028. It deserves a longer post, but for now here are some shiny new renderings for what DTLA may look like by 2028! :cheers:





























And if you're interested, more renders in the Curbed article linked above!

ETA: an article linked directly by AECOM: http://labusinessjournal.com/news/2017/oct/05/aecom-presents-plan-redeveloping-l-river-downtown/


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

aquamaroon said:


> In other city planning news, the construction firm AECOM has put together some incredible renderings on the plans for the LA River revitalization: "Will the LA River through Downtown ever look like this?" - from Curbed LA.
> 
> Outside of transit, the "re-greening" of the LA River may be the single most transformative civic project in time for 2028. It deserves a longer post, but for now here are some shiny new renderings for what DTLA may look like by 2028! :cheers:
> 
> ...


"Incredible" is the correct word, especially if you are talking about 2028. 

The question is how much can the city reasonably manage for the next 11 years. There's the major transit work; repair of streets and sidewalks; new streetscape; the usual code enforcement; safety and security. Doesn't leave a lot of time for the river project as well.

Some of the major AD projects are going to happen and maybe some of the more northerly projects but it won't be enough to look anything like the renderings until maybe 2050.

The river isn't all that relevant to the Olympics as compared to DT proper, Expo Park, Hollywood (many visitors), mid-city and the Westwood area. Efforts there (say, mandatory clean-up and repair of storefronts; better signage; more attractive walls and fencing) are needed and are going to be difficult to sell to local landowners.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

^^ Good post pesto, and you were right on the money! AECOM has come out with a website and a more fleshed out plan regarding the LA River, and in their latest documents they estimate that their total plan would require about a 40 year buildout, with completion around 2060.

That said, they are keeping the Olympics in mind! In the new documents they mention a "Phase 1" they would like to see completed in time for the 2028 Olympics:










The above section of the river is what they would like to see completed by 2028 when LA welcomes the World. It's essentially centered around Union Station and Lincoln Heights, with the signature piece of development looking to be Piggyback Yards. Of course, us LA Olympic Old-timers remember Piggyback Yards as LA 2024's original site of the Athlete's Village, before they scrapped that and went with UCLA:



















While that didn't work out, with a little luck, this is what that section of the LA River will look like by the 2028 Games and that's not too bad :cheers::














For anybody interested in learning more, here are some links!:

"AECOM Reveals Ambitious L.A. River Gateway Proposal" - Urbanize.la

AECOM LA River Gateway site

If you go to the above you can download the full pdf packet for the project. And here is a video they produced about the company and the plan:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

aquamaroon said:


> Of course, us LA Olympic Old-timers remember Piggyback Yards as LA 2024's original site of the Athlete's Village, before they scrapped that and went with UCLA:


I'm relieved they did, even more so now that I'm seeing the huge amount of money the 2020 committee is having to spend for their games. 

Although I'm sure brand-new housing will sell well in Tokyo and Paris after the 2020 and 2024 games are over, I still grimace at the thought of an LA committee building a large village next to the non-scenic LA river in a very non-scenic part of eastern Downtown Los Angeles. 

Not just that, however. But also potential problems involving the logistics and expenses of any massive master-planned apartment complex. The possible sterility of a never-before lived-in facility wouldn't help either.

All in all, I prefer the tone and tenor of this:


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

I freeking love AECOM's proposal. Fantastic!


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

First, thanks for getting the info out so well. This is exactly what I wanted to find, and didn't even need to try!

However, I have very little enthusiasm for focusing on anything north of DT for the Olympics with the exception of Dodger Stadium and maybe Chinatown. There's no reason that people should be going to Piggyback Yards, and Union Station is good enough as is compared to other sites. This is a waste of time and effort when the areas where the Olympics will take place are in such need. 

As I said above, DT proper, Expo Park, etc., are where the money and effort should go. Leave the noisy and divisive issues relating to the river for later.

I would prioritize:

1. Making all of DT south of the 101 clean, derelict-free and well-repaired. The development of new buildings will take care of itself. This is a gigantic task.
2. Making Figueroa, the surrounding blocks and Expo Park area look better by applying legally mandated cleaning and repair standards.
3. Making Hollywood a well-repaired nightlife and shopping district with hip and modern hotels over the area from the hills to SM Blvd., from Gower to La Brea. 
4. A completed Purple Line.
5. A completed LAX and Inglewood sports complex transit solution.
6. Well repaired sidewalks and streets at every venue and along the Purple, Expo and Red Lines.


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## JohnKay75 (May 22, 2017)

Good luck getting the LA River cleaned up. They are having a heck of a time getting the homeless out living in the Santa Ana River next to Angel Stadium. I've been reading about an LA River revitalization project for over 10 years now. Highly skeptical this will be accomplished. I wish LA could at least focus on the little things like cleaning up trash littered everywhere along the sides of freeways and scorched Earth looking weeds growing wild as well as neglected landscape.


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## MrStools (Sep 17, 2015)

pesto said:


> First, thanks for getting the info out so well. This is exactly what I wanted to find, and didn't even need to try!
> 
> However, I have very little enthusiasm for focusing on anything north of DT for the Olympics with the exception of Dodger Stadium and maybe Chinatown. There's no reason that people should be going to Piggyback Yards, and Union Station is good enough as is compared to other sites. This is a waste of time and effort when the areas where the Olympics will take place are in such need.
> 
> ...


I don't think that the LA River project is much of a priority with regards to the Olympics. The cool thing about having 11 years of preparation time, however, is that some large, low-priority projects can end up getting accomplished without diverting effort from the necessities.

I generally agree with your priorities as well. Luckily there is already money and plans in place to accomplish almost all of them: 
#1 will largely be addressed through Measure H, a countywide sales tax increase to house the homeless that was passed last November.
#2 will largely be addressed by the MyFig project, which will significantly reconfigure Figueroa to add bike lanes and bus stations. Increased development and land values in the area should also help to clean things up naturally.
#3 may be somewhat challenging, as anti-development groups have fought many of the high-rise projects going up in Hollywood. There are already a few high profile hotels in the area, however, and a few more should naturally go up in the next 11 years.
#4 should be accomplished, as LA County voters passed Measure M back in November. I would think the main uncertainty for this would be how much help LA gets from Congress, which is a pretty big wildcard right now.
#5 shouldn't be too hard, as LAX already promised to complete their people mover system by 2024 (though I think many Angelenos will believe this when they see it). While the Inglewood sports complex may not get a full rail spur, a bus rapid transit or shuttle system is pretty much guaranteed to be in place.
#6 will largely be accomplished through the aforementioned Measure M, as well as the statewide gas tax increase (some groups are fighting the gas tax increase, so we'll see if it stands).

So I think the LA Olympic leaders can be pretty confident that there are systems & money in place to have a relatively clean and efficient games. There will certainly be challenges, and it's up to the public officials to spend the money wisely, but the good news is that these plans were in place before we were awarded the Olympics.

My personal priorities:
1. Having security plans in place that keep people safe without being overbearing.
2. Having efficient transportation systems in place that can make the LA region feel much smaller than it actually is.
3. Having an Olympic identity that isn't overwhelmingly corporate and embraces the LA culture.
4. Generating enough revenue so that there is enough money to host a 'big' Olympics (i.e. things aren't done on the cheap) and provide a lasting legacy.
5. Partner with USC to finance a large-scale renovation of the Coliseum, so that the Olympics will come back again soon (I'm half joking on this one :lol.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

JohnKay75 said:


> Good luck getting the LA River cleaned up. They are having a heck of a time getting the homeless out living in the Santa Ana River next to Angel Stadium. I've been reading about an LA River revitalization project for over 10 years now. Highly skeptical this will be accomplished. I wish LA could at least focus on the little things like cleaning up trash littered everywhere along the sides of freeways and scorched Earth looking weeds growing wild as well as neglected landscape.


I agree. I don't live in LA but visit frequently and every time am amazed by the new trash dumps or encampments under freeway underpasses, in former areas of bushes and greenery, even cul de sac streets where there are hundreds gathered blocking sidewalks and staring at you, etc. The city either doesn't care or is legally hamstrung. NY and SF have nothing even vaguely like this in any of the areas where shoppers or tourists go.

Addressing this will take a huge amount of legal and staff effort. But it has to be done of LA will be remembered as the "filth Olympics".


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

MrStools said:


> I don't think that the LA River project is much of a priority with regards to the Olympics. The cool thing about having 11 years of preparation time, however, is that some large, low-priority projects can end up getting accomplished without diverting effort from the necessities.
> 
> I generally agree with your priorities as well. Luckily there is already money and plans in place to accomplish almost all of them:
> #1 will largely be addressed through Measure H, a countywide sales tax increase to house the homeless that was passed last November.
> ...


I agree but have very little faith that my basic list will actually get done unless completion targets are set for years earlier and 100 percent focus of administrative people is on them. City and county leadership is monumentally inefficient and there are people who will want to stop the process until they are paid off. The LA 2024 staff has not begun to see what bureaucrats, haters and free handout people can do to kill projects.

Your additions are even less likely, aside from security. I would call these more a wish list than a "musts" list so that LA can avoid embarrassment and a worldwide press feeding frenzy.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

delete.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> LA84 is the legacy that I want for the next Olympics in Los Angeles: A foundation still around 30 years after the fact, and still sponsoring and assisting athletes of the future. That's a lot more meaningful of an imprint of an Olympics than something like a fancy new stadium or a fancy new village built mainly for a two-week event.
> 
> The games need some heart and soul again. *They need to be taken seriously and not as a 2012 gagfest, a 2008 PRCfest or a 2016 political sludgefest.
> 
> *[/B]I hope people of LA28 like Janet Evans, since she does mention being at the LA84 opening, won't fumble the task.


Isn't this exactly what is forbidden on this thread? This belongs on the general Olympics thread, why continue to bore people with your neuroses?

And, again, tacking on a reference to LA when you really are concerned with insulting Olympics is too transparent for anyone to miss.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

So here it is! :banana: :cheers:












> *Here are the 28 Projects that Metro Could Complete Before the 2028 Olympics
> Mayor Eric Garcetti proposes 28 by 28 initiative to accelerate transportation projects.*
> by STEVEN SHARP on November 27, 2017, 8:45AM
> At this week's meeting of Metro's Board of Directors, Los Angeles Mayor and current Chair Eric Garcetti will unveil the roster of his heretofore mysterious "28 by 28" initiative, which proposes the completion of 28 transportation projects before the start of the 2028 Summer Olympics.
> ...


https://urbanize.la/post/here-are-28-projects-metro-could-complete-2028-olympics

The whole list is at the article above! And there's the map for what the LA Metro and highway system would look like by 2028. Some of the highlights:

- Sepulveda line from the Valley to UCLA (olympic village) by 2028 (not to LAX yet though) and the ENTIRE west santa ana branch done by 2028!
- Finally fixing the WYE intersection of the Blue line and Expo line around the Staples Center and Convention Center in DTLA (it's the single biggest choke point in the Metro rail system)
- "Micro Transit" Sounds like Metro wants to run its own Lyft/Uber system? Not a huge fan of this, seems like saturating a market needlessly and they'd be better off working on coordination between Metro and the ride-sharing services.

Anyways I'm stoked!! Sepulveda/Van Nuys to UCLA by 2028 would be a game-changer for the Westside, and the rest of these are great as well. Two omissions though I'd have liked to have seen:

- Green/Crenshaw/LAX line to Norwalk-Santa Fe Springs Metrolink. Seems like a no-brainer to include no?
- The biggest one of all... when are we freaking gonna get a subway to WeHo?!?! :gaah: I mean, you can't even get the Crenshaw line to Wilshire and the Purple line? :gaah: (though I guess to be fair after Wilshire and Sepulveda are done then the Crenshaw Northern Extension to Hollywood will be THE number one project for Metro going forward, and they can advance it then through other means.)


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## LosAngelesSportsFan (Oct 20, 2004)

i wholeheartedly agree with your entire post


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Doesn't seem to me that the Valley to UCLA has much effect on the Olympics. Same for West Santa Ana which is miles and miles through low density, ala Gold Line to Claremont and beyond. 

Micro Transit sounds like worth thinking about but I doubt it gets much usage. For sure don't spend much money on it.

Beyond that, the projects are generally good but I wouldn't make them priorities. Focus on the real 2028 needs: Purple to UCLA and reduce buses on Wilshire; something decent to Inglewood; repaired roads and sidewalks; tent cities off of streets and sidewalks.


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## MrStools (Sep 17, 2015)

aquamaroon said:


> - Finally fixing the WYE intersection of the Blue line and Expo line around the Staples Center and Convention Center in DTLA (it's the single biggest choke point in the Metro rail system)


This is the type of _minor_ improvement that will make a huge difference. It looks like they're considering grade-separation options, which will be expensive but necessary over the long term. Every time I ride the Expo Line, I wish they would've grade-separated everything north/east of Exposition Park (sitting at traffic lights in a train is...not ideal...).

Also, it's important to remember that the Expo Line will be vital to the performance of the Olympics. Santa Monica, Exposition Park, USC, and Downtown will see huge numbers of people getting to/from events on this line. Most of the stations weren't designed to handle event-sized crowds, despite their proximity to the Coliseum/LAFC Stadium/Galen Center/Staples Center. Plus, several sections of this line were clearly value-engineered. Moderate improvements could go a long way towards preparing the Expo Line for the Olympics, as well as preparing it for future ridership.


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## CB31 (May 23, 2010)

aquamaroon said:


> So here it is! :banana: :cheers:
> 
> https://urbanize.la/post/here-are-28-projects-metro-could-complete-2028-olympics
> 
> The whole list is at the article above! And there's the map for what the LA Metro and highway system would look like by 2028. Some of the highlights:


So it translates in how many new subways lines and subway extensions/km ?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

MrStools said:


> This is the type of _minor_ improvement that will make a huge difference. It looks like they're considering grade-separation options, which will be expensive but necessary over the long term. Every time I ride the Expo Line, I wish they would've grade-separated everything north/east of Exposition Park (sitting at traffic lights in a train is...not ideal...).
> 
> Also, it's important to remember that the Expo Line will be vital to the performance of the Olympics. Santa Monica, Exposition Park, USC, and Downtown will see huge numbers of people getting to/from events on this line. Most of the stations weren't designed to handle event-sized crowds, despite their proximity to the Coliseum/LAFC Stadium/Galen Center/Staples Center. Plus, several sections of this line were clearly value-engineered. Moderate improvements could go a long way towards preparing the Expo Line for the Olympics, as well as preparing it for future ridership.


Grade-separation is a must in any urban area. It's just makes no sense to take more space in areas that are already congested. Might as well stick to buses, which if nothing else, are cheap and flexible.

Like the hoped for "Subway to the Sea", the Expo Line is a wonderful opportunity to move people from SaMo to DT in a reasonable period of time. We should do our best to make it work and that includes going underground in congested areas.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

CB31 said:


> So it translates in how many new subways lines and subway extensions/km ?


This may not be the best place to get a good answer for that. The focus here is on the effect of various transit proposals on the Olympics and other Olympics matters. Your question seems more related to the general transit threads. You'll probably have better luck there.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Thrice looks nice!


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Interesting. I would guess that the first half dozen Games would hardly bear much comparison with today's organizations, budgets, bureaucracies, media manipulation, etc. Mostly prep school types.

This seems to pose once again the issue of whether every city should get a turn or the Games should be focused on cities that have demonstrated expertise in avoiding disasters. 

Also, could you argue that there are really 3 Latin American cities that have hosted the Games, counting LA? :lol:


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> Also, could you argue that there are really 3 Latin American cities that have hosted the Games, counting LA? :lol:


Good point. I would say *2.5x *because the organizations behind LA 1984 (both LAOOC and USOC) are/were heavily Anglo. (Altho really for "Latin" flavor, one should count Rome 1960 and Barcelona 1992 (as part of the larger Latin-based hegemony).) 

And I say* 2.5*, just like some sources like to claim that Sarajevo was the first muslim (Winter) Olympics -- maybe in that more than 50% of the population of Sarajevo is muslim.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> just like some sources like to claim that Sarajevo was the first muslim (Winter) Olympics


:nuts:

Some people seem to be really nuts (and obsessed in promoting their own community even though that makes no sense since obviously the Sarajevo Games were promoted, launched, supported, and funded by the Yugoslav Federation, not by the muslim population of the host city hno


P.S. BTW I've been in Yugoslavia/Bosnia (etc) in the late 80s, and to me it didn't look like at all as a "muslim city"...but just as a Yugo' one back then= mostly secular etc...... (that was obviously before the Yugo' wars)


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://la.curbed.com/2017/12/4/16734696/elon-musk-tunnels-boring-company-map

Elon Musk has started construction on a tunnel that could eventually connect major Olympic sites (downtown, Westwood, Inglewood) to other parts of LA. The general concept is that cars will be attached to rapid moving sleds that will zip them to their destination at very high speeds. Garcetti is a supporter so it will be interesting to see the discussion around this.


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## Rover030 (Dec 6, 2016)

Damn, an underground metro-like system that is less efficient at transporting large amounts of people than an actual metro system, but that takes cars. You'd almost say Elon Musk is involved in the auto industry!
Interesting development though. Especially with self-driving cars coming in the future this is probably a better way to support the increase in car trips that will follow than building more lanes on existing roads.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Public / Private Partnership maybe. I could see Mr. Garcetti proposing a large enough tunnel for Mr. Musks "car tube" (tunnel) and HRT thru the Sepulveda Pass and down to LAX. A PPP?

https://www.metro.net/projects/public_private_partnerships/


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Rover030 said:


> Damn, an underground metro-like system that is less efficient at transporting large amounts of people than an actual metro system, but that takes cars. You'd almost say Elon Musk is involved in the auto industry!
> Interesting development though. Especially with self-driving cars coming in the future this is probably a better way to support the increase in car trips that will follow than building more lanes on existing roads.


Yes, some believe that the car will be a continuous and growing presence in world cities with the advent of Uber and autonomous vehicles ("AV's") and the growing demand for door-to-door service. Fully developed, you will use your phone to reserve an AV which comes more or less to your door, takes you to the tunnel lift, lowers you to a 150mph track, sends you where you are going, then leaves you off where you are going and either parks itself or goes to work for someone else.

One question is whether government will become involved so as to subsidize rides for those who don't want to pay the cost of such travel. Otherwise, the lower income people will still be stuck on trains or in traffic.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

redspork02 said:


> Public / Private Partnership maybe. I could see Mr. Garcetti proposing a large enough tunnel for Mr. Musks "car tube" (tunnel) and HRT thru the Sepulveda Pass and down to LAX. A PPP?
> 
> https://www.metro.net/projects/public_private_partnerships/


As a guess, Musk would strongly prefer to be tied to the track in front of a speeding vehicle than working for 10 minutes with MTA. He is already on record as saying that 90 percent of the time it takes to build transit is the government playing with themselves and each other (or something to that effect). 

I would guess that he would accept money from Metro under a contract but would not be interested in their "help". Perhaps they could agree on a third party that would represent Metro and make sure their needs are met.

I notice also that he isn't competing much against rail: he is avoiding Wilshire and focusing on the 405 corridor and Century, adding service around South Bay, Sherman Oaks, Silver Lake, Venice, LB Airport, Dodger Stadium and other areas with no good rail connections.


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## Леонид (Jan 11, 2008)

Kenni said:


> Thrice looks nice!


How did you make this map?


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

I didn't, its from wiki.


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## matthias23 (Oct 28, 2017)

why is Japan not blue on the map?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

redspork02 said:


> TODAY SHOW - LA
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, God, no. Is this what we have to look forward to for 10 years?

Let's see: vegans, Korean tacos, illegal aliens, Martian aliens, fitness, yoga, unisex everything. There will be a lot of things about LA to confirm what everyone already suspected....


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

...


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## Basincreek (Mar 10, 2008)

pesto said:


> Oh, God, no. Is this what we have to look forward to for 10 years?
> 
> Let's see: vegans, Korean tacos, illegal aliens, Martian aliens, fitness, yoga, unisex everything. There will be a lot of things about LA to confirm what everyone already suspected....


How dare they want to be an island of inclusion in a world full of hate!


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Basincreek said:


> How dare they want to be an island of inclusion in a world full of hate!


Hopefully. 

The basic LA story is people who came to invent and actualize their own dreams. So you get some good and some bad.

The next step is too either tolerate or ignore the others as best you can. Some can and some can't. :lol:


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> Oh, God, no. Is this what we have to look forward to for 10 years?
> 
> Let's see: vegans, Korean tacos, illegal aliens, Martian aliens, fitness, yoga, unisex everything. There will be a lot of things about LA to confirm what everyone already suspected....


Well, between Tokyo 2020, Paris 2024, LA 2028 and whichever will be the 2032 host, we will see the greatest contrasts in urban contents and histories. Tokyo 2020 will represent a technologically advanced metropolis that rose from the ashes of war (and is really an ersatz western setting); followed by the IOC going back to a city with roots twelve centuries ago when it started out as the Roman village of Lutetia, representing the most beautiful urbane setting that man can produce when he wants to. Then back to LA for a 3rd go-around, which setting was also barely a village the first time Paris hosted the Games of 1900 and the Universal Exposition then. What a composite picture of the strictly 20th century work-play ethic and sunshine sprawl of the American empire, it embodies. 

What a ride through civilization. And who will host 2032? Melbourne or the German heartland? Or will the Olympic Games even be around then? 2025 will tell.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> Well, between Tokyo 2020, Paris 2024, LA 2028 and whichever will be the 2032 host, we will see the greatest contrasts in urban contents and histories. Tokyo 2020 will represent a technologically advanced metropolis that* rose from the ashes of war *(and is really an ersatz western setting); followed by the IOC going back to a city with roots twelve centuries ago when it started out as the Roman village of Lutetia, representing the most beautiful urbane setting that man can produce when he wants to. Then back to LA for a 3rd go-around, which setting was also barely a village the first time Paris hosted the Games of 1900 and the Universal Exposition then. What a composite picture of the strictly 20th century work-play ethic and sunshine sprawl of the American empire, it embodies.
> 
> What a ride through civilization. And who will host 2032? Melbourne or the German heartland? Or will the Olympic Games even be around then? 2025 will tell.


That is, they rose until the US passed the Semiconductor Chip Protection Act and forced them to pay for the technology and knowhow they had been stealing. Haven't grown so much since then.

But, yes, two cities that headed great empires and one that heads the empire of entertainment and crazy ideas. :lol:


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Added distinction. Tokyo, Paris and LA are also half of the world's ONLY 6 cities to have Disneyland/World parks. (The other 3 being two in China and one in Orlando, FLA.)


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

"Battle for LAX" by Airlines CNBC

Delta to Invest 1.9 Billion. Terminal 2 & 3 and connecting tunnel to TBIT.


---------------------------------------------------------------------


*LAX People Mover project bond presale underway* 


> The presale report for the $1.2 billion private activity bond (PAB) issue backing LAX Integrated Express Solution's (LINXS) Automated People Mover Project at Los Angeles International Airport is out. Proceeds of the series 2018 A&B bonds, along with a $263 million design-build loan facility, $1 billion in milestone payments from Los Angeles World Airports (LAWA) and $96 million in developer equity will be used to pay project costs as well as capitalized interest during construction. The private activity bonds (PABs) are expected to price on or about 5 June 2018. The project is being procured as an availability-based 30-year DBFOM public private partnership (P3) concession. Under the terms of the project agreement, LAWA will make regular construction period milestone payments as certain percentage thresholds are met and additional design and construction payments followed by availability-based payments during the operating phase. Project costs total approximately $2.7 billion.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Knitemplar said:


> Added distinction. Tokyo, Paris and LA are also half of the world's ONLY 6 cities to have Disneyland/World parks. (The other 3 being two in China and one in Orlando, FLA.)


 ....and LA is where it all began. 

Walt started his studio in his uncles garage, then, where the Disney Studios are now, he wanted Disneyland, but it required land belonging to Griffith Park; just portions of it. The City of LA said "nop", they couldn't anyways, the Griffith Park land was a grant, a gift, willed to be only that, a public park.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Kenni said:


> ....and LA is where it all began.
> 
> Walt started his studio in his uncles garage, then, where the Disney Studios are now, he wanted Disneyland, but it required land belonging to Griffith Park; just portions of it. The City of LA said "nop", they couldn't anyways, the Griffith Park land was a grant, a gift, willed to be only that, a public park.


Yeah, yeah. We all know about that. You might say, that it all started in Marceline, Kansas, where he was born -- or you might want to go even farther back, from d'Isigny, France, where his family line started. 

Just don't overdo it.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Changing the topic ever so slightly, a couple of comments.

1. I have ridden the metro 4 times this week and 3 of those times it was actually like riding subway in other cities: normal people doing normal things. Only once did it look like lunatics had taken over the car and even then no one was passed out or howling. 

This is a huge improvement. I assume MTA is cracking down on illegal riders?

2. DT is still horrible; bad enough during the day but off the charts at night. A number of hipsters have moved in but no decrease at all in bums, lowlifes and medical wrecks. Open drug use, boozing, defecating and aggressive behavior. Sleeping wherever they feel like it.

Ten years to the Olympics, when virtually every country in the world will have teams of news people filming this and putting it on every possible form of media with a non-stop barrage of anti-US propaganda.


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## Rover030 (Dec 6, 2016)

Paris has very similar issues, but that hasn't stopped Fox News from making up completely false stories about the city. If I were American or from LA and cared about anti-US propaganda, I'd be happy if it at least was about actual issues, such as homelessness. The propaganda is going to be there anyway.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Rover030 said:


> Paris has very similar issues, but that hasn't stopped Fox News from making up completely false stories about the city. If I were American or from LA and cared about anti-US propaganda, I'd be happy if it at least was about actual issues, such as homelessness. The propaganda is going to be there anyway.


This sounds almost cynical: why bother with issues if they will be publicized regardless of their existence. :lol: Actually, it seems most countries take this attitude.

But getting back to reality, the problem is that the weather is very good, the people and courts tolerant of drugs, so it's the perfect place to be if you are exercising your right to live as you want while claiming your legal right to be fed, housed, medicated, etc. The ones who are simply addicted find shelter; those who insist on their right to sell strong drugs sleep on the streets.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> 2. DT is still horrible; .


 Oh he is, anytime night or day. And will still be by 2028! :lol:


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Knitemplar said:


> Yeah, yeah. We all know about that. You might say, that it all started in Marceline, Kansas, where he was born -- or you might want to go even farther back, from d'Isigny, France, where his family line started.
> 
> Just don't overdo it.


Well, not everyone knows that. BTW, there's a bogus theory that Walt was adopted, and was really born in Spain as Jose Girao. 

His features ...he could be Spanish, but then again could be his french ancestry. 













pesto said:


> Changing the topic ever so slightly, a couple of comments.
> 
> 1. I have ridden the metro 4 times this week and 3 of those times it was actually like riding subway in other cities: normal people doing normal things. Only once did it look like lunatics had taken over the car and even then no one was passed out or howling.
> 
> ...


I'm taking Metro 4 days a week to work. I have the same perception, but then again I take the Green Line. But through DT....the last time was probably 3 months ago, I didn't see that. On the Blue Line....low lifes and medical wrecks but not the other stuff.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Kenni said:


> Well, not everyone knows that. BTW, there's a bogus theory that Walt was adopted, and was really born in Spain as Jose Girao.
> 
> 
> I'm taking Metro 4 days a week to work. I have the same perception, but then again I take the Green Line. But through DT....the last time was probably 3 months ago, I didn't see that. On the Blue Line....low lifes and medical wrecks but not the other stuff.


This was in the area of Hill, Bway, Spring between 5th and 9th, hopping bars a bit. Between 9:00 and 11:00 No exaggeration.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Knitemplar said:


> What a ride through civilization. And who will host 2032? Melbourne or the German heartland? Or will the Olympic Games even be around then? 2025 will tell.


Not sure how the world's political scene will play out over the next few decades. Nationalism is being discouraged. A lot of gender and racial identity politics are being promoted. Some of that was on display during the recent winter games in Korea. 

Look at what's affecting the NFL, which, in turn, may affect the Rams' new stadium in Inglewood. Look at how big ESPN was several years ago. Today? Where are all the ESPN Zone restaurants?

The 1932 Olympics were held way before the existence of modern media, TV, jet travel. Yet fascination with the games still apparently occurred in Los Angeles back then. Hell, look at the Egyptians way before all of this. They built the pyramids without modern equipment and technology. Where there's a will, there's a way.

But the Olympics may be returning to a situation closer to what they were like over 45 years ago. A time when the winter games in Squaw Valley were treated as not much more of a big deal than today's X games.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> Not sure how the world's political scene will play out over the next few decades. Nationalism is being discouraged. A lot of gender and racial identity politics are being promoted. Some of that was on display during the recent winter games in Korea.
> 
> Look at what's affecting the NFL, which, in turn, may affect the Rams' new stadium in Inglewood. Look at how big ESPN was several years ago. Today? Where are all the ESPN Zone restaurants?
> 
> ...


Some interesting ideas here; they sound pretty accurate. But I hate to predict anything at the rate things are changing. Will they continue in the current directions or will there be huge reactions and wholly new directions.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> Oh he is, anytime night or day. And will still be by 2028! :lol:


Unfortunately they will probably be even worse if the same ideas that are around now are still around. Bums and vagabonds will continue to pour into DT to enjoy the fabulous weather, free lodging, free food, free medical treatment and probably free drugs if the same tolerance that is a mantra in some groups continues.

I just would like to note now that in 2018 there were 10 years to get rid of the bums and pretty much no one did anything useful for 10 years.

Hopefully I'm wrong.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

I'm as left as any left winger, but I also want a tougher hand on this problem. As you say Pestie. Many of those people are folks who just don't want to try or do anything, hey...they get everything for free, and fabulous weather. 

Many of them need a swift kick in the a--.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Kenni said:


> I'm as left as any left winger, but I also want a tougher hand on this problem. As you say Pestie. Many of those people are folks who just don't want to try or do anything, hey...they get everything for free, and fabulous weather.
> 
> Many of them need a swift kick in the a--.


Yes, and of course, I am not referring to those legitimately out of luck for medical, family or other reasons and who need temporary help to get back into stable condition. They deserve help.

Those who chose to take strong drugs for 30 years and are now mentally blasted or those who are looking for a free ride so they can stay buzzed 24/7, not so much.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Kenni said:


> I'm as left as any left winger


I'm puzzled why people would brag about that. However, I don't want to get off-topic. Here's my segue: The leading city north of LA does have some connection to this thread. It was in contention to win the 2020 Olympics. Many people have said it would make one of the best choices for a future games in the US, post-1996, post-1984.

I remember thinking a few years ago that San Francisco was way more likely than Los Angeles to win an Olympics after Atlanta over 20 years ago. 

Of course, SF's Warriors of the recent past have been putting the Lakers in the shade. :bleep:





> By Nellie Bowles
> 
> June 6, 2018
> 
> ...


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## Rover030 (Dec 6, 2016)

Isn't a big problem that freeriding occurs between cities when it comes to taking care of the homeless? I've read things about cities putting people on planes to California to let them take care of the problem.

To me it sounds like the US needs a national solution to the problem. Of course that's really difficult politically, but here in the Netherlands we have a similar homelessness rate, but the homeless are much less visible in the big cities, also in summer when the weather is good. Recent budget cuts in mental healthcare have made the situation a bit worse though.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Rover030 said:


> Isn't a big problem that freeriding occurs between cities when it comes to taking care of the homeless? I've read things about cities putting people on planes to California to let them take care of the problem.
> 
> To me it sounds like the US needs a national solution to the problem. Of course that's really difficult politically, but here in the Netherlands we have a similar homelessness rate, but the homeless are much less visible in the big cities, also in summer when the weather is good. Recent budget cuts in mental healthcare have made the situation a bit worse though.


A couple of thoughts.

How would a national solution help? Everyone would move to LA while additional 100's of billions were spent on useless staff and studies.

The solutions should be state or county specific and should reflect local values of that community. If some communities want to tax the hell out of the wealthy and corporations and splurge on free housing, drugs, etc., for bums and slackers, let them do it; but don't make those with different views bear the cost.

The point is that about 30 percent of the world would move to the US tomorrow (actual studies). That gives a hint that there is little need to incentivize further immigration to the best part of the US.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

californiadreams said:


> I'm puzzled why people would brag about that.


Well, with our problems and all here in California, just compare Kentucky, Alabama and Mississippi. Then you tell me.



Rover030 said:


> Isn't a big problem that freeriding occurs between cities when it comes to taking care of the homeless? I've read things about cities putting people on planes to California to let them take care of the problem.
> 
> To me it sounds like the US needs a national solution to the problem. Of course that's really difficult politically, but here in the Netherlands we have a similar homelessness rate, but the homeless are much less visible in the big cities, also in summer when the weather is good. Recent budget cuts in mental healthcare have made the situation a bit worse though.


Yes, correct. That is my problem with how we are approaching the problem.....way to suave and gentle, babying them. I also voted for measure HHH. Most of the "homeless" are partying all day, enjoying drugs, and get fed, medical etc for free...and now they will get "homes". 

This crisis boomed with everyone sending their "undesirables" to sunny LA.


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## Rover030 (Dec 6, 2016)

pesto said:


> A couple of thoughts.
> 
> How would a national solution help? Everyone would move to LA while additional 100's of billions were spent on useless staff and studies.
> 
> ...


I don't think you understood my point. If there is a national solution, everyone would be paying towards the problem, whether they send their homeless away or not. It's naive to think that solutions based on local choices are sustainable when there is free movement, which is even actively encouraged by local governments.

Unless you want a race to the bottom, which you probably want seeing how you talk about the homeless.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Rover030 said:


> I don't think you understood my point. If there is a national solution, everyone would be paying towards the problem, whether they send their homeless away or not. It's naive to think that solutions based on local choices are sustainable when there is free movement, which is even actively encouraged by local governments.
> 
> Unless you want a race to the bottom, which you probably want seeing how you talk about the homeless.


I will ignore the gratuitous insults. 

Let me try again. The whole country pays for LA to house everyone who can't or doesn't feel like working on some of the most valuable land in the country. That's your idea?

As I said above, California does not need more incentives to attract people without interest in working. It needs fewer, so that there is greater incentive for them to stay where they are or seek places with low priced housing, services, etc. 

For example, enforcement of bans on sleeping or erecting tents or parking residential vans on streets, sidewalks, parks, and other public areas, combined with providing housing and basic services in, say, more remote areas of LA or in the Central Valley, would lower the incentive to move to California plus free up valuable inner city areas for badly needed housing.


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## Rover030 (Dec 6, 2016)

pesto said:


> Let me try again. The whole country pays for LA to house everyone who can't or doesn't feel like working on some of the most valuable land in the country. That's your idea?


No, my idea is that the whole country pays to have good facilities for the homeless in the whole country, instead of right wing regions sending their homeless to regions where people are willing to pay, putting an even bigger burden on those regions.

I thought that it was quite clear that I meant that.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Rover030 said:


> No, my idea is that the whole country pays to have good facilities for the homeless in the whole country, instead of right wing regions sending their homeless to regions where people are willing to pay, putting an even bigger burden on those regions.
> 
> I thought that it was quite clear that I meant that.


You are postulating a system that contradicts itself. Why do I stay in, say, Boston or Minnesota, if I can get the same benefits in LA, plus if they get tough on drugs I can sleep on the sidewalk or in the parks? In your eagerness to invent a "left/right" hate scenario you are missing the piece "why do I choose anywhere other than LA"?

And I won't even get into the almost universal objection to the federal government telling communities how to run their local social services. Even the goofiest left doesn't want that and the mindless regulations, delays and absurdities it brings.


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## Rover030 (Dec 6, 2016)

^^ I have honestly no idea what you're talking about. I'm not saying anything about a left/right hate scenario, I'm just saying that right wing politicans are less likely to support policy that helps the homeless. 

I also don't get what is contradicting itself in my system. All I'm saying is: the federal government should make sure there is an even level of care in the entire country, so that local governments don't send their homeless to LA anymore. Also, people in places that normally wouldn't have facilities for the homeless will have them, so that there is less incentive for them to move.

All I'm saying is that this would help make the homeless problem in LA less bad, but I also acknowledged from the start that it would be difficult politically in your country.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Rover030 said:


> ^^ I have honestly no idea what you're talking about. I'm not saying anything about a left/right hate scenario, I'm just saying that right wing politicans are less likely to support policy that helps the homeless.
> 
> I also don't get what is contradicting itself in my system. All I'm saying is: the federal government should make sure there is an even level of care in the entire country, so that local governments don't send their homeless to LA anymore. Also, people in places that normally wouldn't have facilities for the homeless will have them, so that there is less incentive for them to move.
> 
> All I'm saying is that this would help make the homeless problem in LA less bad, but I also acknowledged from the start that it would be difficult politically in your country.


And would not keep people from coming to California. You would have to have very substantial disincentives to stop that.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Kenni said:


> Well, with our problems and all here in California, just compare Kentucky, Alabama and Mississippi. Then you tell me.


But Kentucky, Alabama and Mississippi have never had great reputations, so it's not easy to use them as a before-and-after comparison. By contrast, California in the past had a reputation of being a great place to start a new life, business and career. It was the promised land decades ago. 

Today? 

Even some of the people in the state who keep favoring the same public figures, policies and government won't say, Hey, California in 2018 has a great business-friendly climate, reasonable taxes, little red tape, a very accommodating public sector, a successful way of dealing with the homeless and hurt. 

They're more likely to say - particularly if they're being honest - the state does well in spite of, not because of, its local and state governments.

But since this thread is about the Olympics, talking about the political climate is relevant only as how that will either help or hurt the games over the next 10 years, certainly when 2028 rolls around.

The IOC's official channel recently posted this video on the "look" of past games, ending with scenes from Los Angeles 1984. 

I hope Tokyo 2020 is able to re-create the dignity of the city's 1964 games. However, the odds are against that. As for Mexico 1968, they were an inspiration for the designers working for LA 84. One of the two people in charge of them passed away a few years ago. Her tastes didn't match everyone's, but she for the first time gave the Olympics a noticeable design. Look at images of Olympics prior to 1984 and their generic backgrounds all made them look more alike than different.

In terms of "looks," that was another innovation implemented by LA's host committee the last time this city hosted the games.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

californiadreams said:


> But Kentucky, Alabama and Mississippi have never had great reputations, so it's not easy to use them as a before-and-after comparison. By contrast, California in the past had a reputation of being a great place to start a new life, business and career. It was the promised land decades ago.
> 
> Today?
> 
> ...


"High taxes" is a relative term. Have you been to Europe? GOP economic policies...do I even have to remind you?, geez..since Hoover, they blow up the economy. Our values here in California are different, and if some don't like them....well, there are plenty of Red states. I think it's more about age, I sense you are older and what you consider or reminisce.... _California in the past had a reputation of being a great place to start a new life, business and career. It was the promised land decades ago. _


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Kenni said:


> "High taxes" is a relative term. Have you been to Europe? GOP economic policies...do I even have to remind you?, geez..*since Hoover, they blow up the economy*. Our values here in California are different, and if some don't like them....well, there are plenty of Red states. I think it's more about age, I sense you are older and what you consider or reminisce.... _California in the past had a reputation of being a great place to start a new life, business and career. It was the promised land decades ago. _


That thinking is a bit dated. The Fed and money supply are the probable culprits and Friedman got a Nobel Prize for demonstrating it and predicting the failure of government intervention in helping the situation. He also predicted stagflation, which spending and the Fed were powerless to stop but the government kept trying to anyway. 

It's actually not that complicated if you devote a year of serious study. It will change the way you see the world.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Kenni said:


> ..since Hoover, they blow up the economy.


Correct, Kenni!

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dispelling-the-herbert-hoover-myth/



> _After the stock market crash of 1929, Hoover browbeat business leaders to keep wages and prices high. He invested heavily in public works projects. He pushed for an international moratorium on debts. He created the Reconstruction Finance Corporation, which later became a home for many of FDR's Brain Trusters. Hoover increased farm subsidies enormously.
> _
> _Some of Hoover's interventions were good but ineffectual. A few were very, very bad and very effective.
> _
> ...



As for the Olympics and other types of politics, the last time they were in LA, because of the absence of Soviet bloc countries, they weren't a complete games. 

The political scene in 2028, however, may see traditional nationalism so outdated, and traditional group identities that existed in 1984 so diminished 44 years later, that it's anyone's guess whether a non-boycotted 2028 Olympics won't come with another type of asterisk after its name. But the same will apply to Paris 2024, probably Tokyo 2020 too.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

As for the Olympics and other types of politics, the last time they were in LA, because of the absence of Soviet bloc countries, they weren't a complete games. 

The political scene in 2028, however, may see traditional nationalism so outdated, and traditional group identities that existed in 1984 so diminished 44 years later, that it's anyone's guess whether a non-boycotted 2028 Olympics won't come with another type of asterisk after its name. But the same will apply to Paris 2024, probably Tokyo 2020 too.



Some interesting thoughts there. 

Nationalism is getting a lot of negative press by the "world government" crowd but is also being used effectively by 3rd world elites to keep themselves in power. The idea that the US or the west or world capitalism or such is trying to destroy "our wonderful country which we all love" is still working in many countries to justify oppression and keep elites wealthy. 

Regionalism (which merges into racism and religious bigotry) is clearly on the rise as always happens when modernization hits traditional societies. I don't think that will go away soon since about 2/3 of the world still lives at near Medieval educational levels, including large numbers in the developed world. Even on the threads here you can see the very tenuous grip that many have on economics, international commerce, basic business management, educational policy, energy policy, etc.

But I wouldn't expect dramatic changes for the Olympics. Might be an interesting project to think about how to restructure them to remove the nationalist focus.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> Even on the threads here you can see the very tenuous grip that many have on economics, international commerce, basic business management, educational policy, energy policy, etc.


Along with that, and since this thread is about the Olympics, and since the following person was a major star of the 1976 games in Montreal, the big question is exactly what will things be like over the next 10 years? 

When the winter games were held a few months ago in South Korea, I found myself going, "uh, er, am I'm being politically correct enough or not? Should I root or not root for this country, that country, for this team, that team, this athlete, that athlete? Should I feel embarrassed for myself, for him, for her, for them?"

I admit that removed some of the enjoyment of the 2018 Olympics. So the question is how will these things affect, or not affect, the games in 2028?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Politically correct is a hard dance to dance, but a wonderful method for giving the internet something to talk about, which sells ad space. So I would expect it to continue and become more and more powerful.

Politics should be separated from sports but that's hard to do when you have athletes with IQ's in the 50's and the education of 3rd graders pontificating on the economy, international issues, energy policy, social policy, etc. Guys who can barely read and write.

I do expect great changes by 2028 and it will be interesting to see the sponsors and organizers try to manage and shape the messages coming out. Nobody wants a loose cannon messing up the message that they are building into their PR campaign, but at least 100 athletes will have their own PR expectations coming out of the Games and would love to generate some controversy and attention.


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## Rover030 (Dec 6, 2016)

pesto said:


> Politically correct is a hard dance to dance, but a wonderful method for giving the internet something to talk about, which sells ad space. So I would expect it to continue and become more and more powerful.
> 
> *Politics should be separated from sports but that's hard to do when you have athletes with IQ's in the 50's and the education of 3rd graders pontificating on the economy, international issues, energy policy, social policy, etc. Guys who can barely read and write.*
> 
> I do expect great changes by 2028 and it will be interesting to see the sponsors and organizers try to manage and shape the messages coming out. Nobody wants a loose cannon messing up the message that they are building into their PR campaign, but at least 100 athletes will have their own PR expectations coming out of the Games and would love to generate some controversy and attention.


This is so condescending. Especially when you are in a country where the mixing comes from the politics a lot as well. Such as the military paying the NFL for years. And Trump pressuring the NFL into preventing kneeling at the anthem. Or just all the nationalism at domestic sports events in general. You really can't blame the athletes for using their influence when politics uses sports to do the same.

And your country's athletes are college graduates on top of that!:lol:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Rover030 said:


> This is so condescending. Especially when you are in a country where the mixing comes from the politics a lot as well. Such as the military paying the NFL for years. And Trump pressuring the NFL into preventing kneeling at the anthem. Or just all the nationalism at domestic sports events in general. You really can't blame the athletes for using their influence when politics uses sports to do the same.
> 
> And your country's athletes are college graduates on top of that!:lol:


Not sure what that has to do with the abysmal levels of athlete intelligence and education, which has been documented thoroughly.

Honestly, is there one professional athlete who could explain the Phillips Curve? Or the interplay of central Asian policy with the domestic tax on gasoline? Or which social welfare policies yield the best results over the long-term? Or why the Fed is selling bonds and managing expectations upward for 9-12 months?

Yet, they happily criticize the economic, international and social policy of the government if their PR people tell them that is what is trending. Usually at a level that is laughable to anyone who has actually taken a class in economics, politics or basic world history and cultures.


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## Rover030 (Dec 6, 2016)

pesto said:


> Not sure what that has to do with the abysmal levels of athlete intelligence and education, which has been documented thoroughly.
> 
> Honestly, is there one professional athlete who could explain the Phillips Curve? Or the interplay of central Asian policy with the domestic tax on gasoline? Or which social welfare policies yield the best results over the long-term? Or why the Fed is selling bonds and managing expectations upward for 9-12 months?
> 
> Yet, they happily criticize the economic, international and social policy of the government if their PR people tell them that is what is trending. Usually at a level that is laughable to anyone who has actually taken a class in economics, politics or basic world history and cultures.


You said "Politics should be separated from sports, but *talks about athletes*," but I am trying to say that it's not just athletes mixing sports with politics. It's also politicians mixing sport with politics. If you want to separate the two, you should adress both side of the "issue".

I don't see why athletes shouldn't be allowed to criticise the government, because they aren't economists and some of them are not intelligent. Politicians usually also know very little about economics (our prime minister is a historian for instance) and many of them are stupid (such as your country's president), but they talk about politics all the time. 

I think it's also very condescending to act as if athletes don't have their own opinion and only say what their PR people tell them to do.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Rover030 said:


> You said "Politics should be separated from sports, but *talks about athletes*," but I am trying to say that it's not just athletes mixing sports with politics. It's also politicians mixing sport with politics. If you want to separate the two, you should adress both side of the "issue".
> 
> I don't see why athletes shouldn't be allowed to criticise the government, because they aren't economists and some of them are not intelligent. Politicians usually also know very little about economics (our prime minister is a historian for instance) and many of them are stupid (such as your country's president), but they talk about politics all the time.
> 
> I think it's also very condescending to act as if athletes don't have their own opinion and only say what their PR people tell them to do.


Almost everything you say is absurd. 

You don't see the difference between, say, Obama talking about basketball (which he did regularly) and athletes talking about immigration, energy, national security, welfare policy, etc.? The former is considered "sport" or "recreation"; it's intended to show you're a "regular guy" and no one takes it seriously. The latter is an attempt to shape national policy exploiting your fame and hoping your profound ignorance doesn't show too much.

Trump and his advisors are actually quite expert in the areas I have noted. He insists on a populist approach but you do understand that he is a Wharton graduate in economics and has 50 years experience in major and cross-border deal negotiations in the US and developed and developing countries? He could wipe the floor with any athlete in the world on economics, international politics and strategy, energy policy, effect of taxes, government deficits, balance of trade, etc.


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## Rover030 (Dec 6, 2016)

pesto said:


> Almost everything you say is absurd.
> 
> You don't see the difference between, say, Obama talking about basketball (which he did regularly) and athletes talking about immigration, energy, national security, welfare policy, etc.? The former is considered "sport" or "recreation"; it's intended to show you're a "regular guy" and no one takes it seriously. The latter is an attempt to shape national policy exploiting your fame and hoping your profound ignorance doesn't show too much.
> 
> Trump and his advisors are actually quite expert in the areas I have noted. He insists on a populist approach but you do understand that he is a Wharton graduate in economics and has 50 years experience in major and cross-border deal negotiations in the US and developed and developing countries? He could wipe the floor with any athlete in the world on economics, international politics and strategy, energy policy, effect of taxes, government deficits, balance of trade, etc.


You're misunderstanding me on purpose. Really dishonest. I even mentioned examples in my first post of politicians that mix sports with politics, by for instance having a government body pay the NFL to show nationalist propaganda, or by the president trying to say how athletes should act during the national anthem. 

I clearly didn't mean Obama talking about baseball, which I don't mind at all.

It's funny that you mention athletes exploiting their fame, because that's exactly what Trump did to get elected. He never showed his experience other than by bragging about it and definitely never wiped the floor with anyone based on subject-matter.

Anyway, this is getting off-topic. It's just that I think it's unfair to blame athletes for talking about politics (which everyone should be allowed to do) while politicians are making sports about politics too.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

This is humorous:







But this is not. However, it's what is probably going to become more and more common with various major public events over the next 10 years. 








My main concern about the 2028 games is that a growing dislike of traditional nationalism combined with more and more hectoring about things like what was a major part of the theme of Rio 2016 (or Green Earth! Green Earth! Green Olympics!) is squeezing the joy out of the games.

Throw in potential political issues that have affected games for over 80 years and I'm unsure what Los Angeles 2028 will end up like. 

I do hope we'll at least manage to dodge the bullet that struck Atlanta in 1996, certainly Munich in 1972 or the overly politicized nature of the opening of London in 2012. Not to mention the sense of disappointment of Rio in 2016. Or the cold, calculated, robotic-totalitarian vibe of Beijing 2008.








I hope the Los Angeles 2028 committee is up to the task.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Rover030 said:


> pressuring the NFL into preventing kneeling at the anthem.


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## Rover030 (Dec 6, 2016)

^^ What is your point with these comments? Is it good that a gay athlete calls out a politician for his homophobia? Surely you don't need to be an expert in something to do that and it is right to use your fame for such a purpose?

The black power salute, do you think that's bad?

Something I feel like is kind of obvious, but needs to be said, is that if you don't want politics in sports in these cases, just don't involve a politician with the olympics. Or even better, don't elect a homophobe. Don't play the national anthem before a game, like in most of the world.

If we want to connect with your videos about workplace etiquette, they don't play the national anthem at the start of the working day, right? Not that the jobs are comparable anyway. They only play the national anthem at schools iirc, which is still absurd to me, just like the pledge of allegiance. I also once read about Walmart having their own anthem that they have to sing at the start of the day. That wouldn't fly here. You surely couldn't get fined for not singing something like that at least.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Rover030 said:


> If we want to connect with your videos about workplace etiquette, they don't play the national anthem at the start of the working day, right?


So if I show up at your home and choose to put my feet up on your coffee table, help myself to the food in your kitchen, take a shower in your bathroom without your permission, grab the channel changer from you and turn to a TV show I want to watch, even though that's your property and you pay the bills, you should not complain about my behavior? You should accommodate my behavior? 

As for homophobia?

Yea, it's homophobic to resent homosexuals:


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## Rover030 (Dec 6, 2016)

californiadreams said:


> So if I show up at your home and choose to put my feet up on your coffee table, help myself to the food in your kitchen, take a shower in your bathroom without your permission, grab the channel changer from you and turn to a TV show I want to watch, even though that's your property and you pay the bills, you should not complain about my behavior? You should accommodate my behavior?


Sorry, but this analogy doesn't make any sense. This would be a better one: 

You're my employee. Thanks to the work you do for me, I make a sh*tload of money. Especially because I have worked together with all other employers to make sure that you can't go to another company to make even close to what you can make here. Because of tradition, I play the national anthem every day. You want to kneel instead of stand during that anthem. You don't make any noise and you don't disturb anyone. 

Do I care? No, it's the national anthem, it's not work, you don't disturb anyone. Anyone who is bothered by it can simply look the other way and ignore it.

That is how easy it is to not be bothered by athletes.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Rover030 said:


> You're misunderstanding me on purpose. Really dishonest. I even mentioned examples in my first post of politicians that mix sports with politics, by for instance having a government body pay the NFL to show nationalist propaganda, or by the president trying to say how athletes should act during the national anthem.
> 
> I clearly didn't mean Obama talking about baseball, which I don't mind at all.
> 
> ...


Ok, and I think it's unfair of half-wit athletes to hand out b/s written by their PR people and pass it off as either their own beliefs or as useful analysis of issues that they don't even vaguely understand. It reinforces the sense in voters generally that simplistic and erroneous one-liners are as much as anyone needs to know. 

And conversely there isn't a reason in the world politicians shouldn't talk about sports, movies, TV, music or whatever allows them to show they have a connection to the voters' world. That's folksy PR. The serious policy work takes place in private with relevant technical and political people involved.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Rover030 said:


> Because of tradition, I play the national anthem every day. You want to kneel instead of stand during that anthem. You don't make any noise and you don't disturb anyone.
> 
> Do I care? No, it's the national anthem, it's not work, you don't disturb anyone. Anyone who is bothered by it can simply look the other way and ignore it.
> 
> That is how easy it is to not be bothered by athletes.



Here's another analogy: If I show up at your house and your dear old mother from Michigan is visiting for the day, and you introduce me to her, and I don't care for her "Stronger Together" campaign button, which causes me to turn around and start watching the TV, you won't mind my looking the other way and ignoring her?


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## Rover030 (Dec 6, 2016)

^^ You expect me to be able to relate to an analogy with a mother from Michigan and a "Stronger Together" campaign button? I had to look up who's slogan that was. Then I imagined you visiting me and it really got weird. Try again :lol:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Rover030 said:


> I had to look up who's slogan that was. :lol:


Instead of another analogy, I'll give you this:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Rover030 said:


> Sorry, but this analogy doesn't make any sense. This would be a better one:
> 
> You're my employee. Thanks to the work you do for me, I make a sh*tload of money. Especially because I have worked together with all other employers to make sure that you can't go to another company to make even close to what you can make here. Because of tradition, I play the national anthem every day. You want to kneel instead of stand during that anthem. You don't make any noise and you don't disturb anyone.
> 
> ...


You are missing the symbolism of the act. They are not protesting a particular issue: they are attacking the principles on which America is based.

If you look at letters from Civil War soldiers or WWII soldiers on D Day they say things like "I know there is little chance I will survive tomorrow and I will never see my sons grow up, but I just can't live with myself if I know there are people craving freedom and having it denied to them. It is my responsibility as a human being to give them the liberty my family and I have been blessed with". 

Typically, the next day they were killed leading assaults against hopeless odds on Omaha or Utah Beach or some other battle so that the 2nd or 3rd wave after them could establish some ground and eventually land a substantial force. 

The American flag means respect and honor for those heroes; anyone who dishonors the flag is spitting on their graves. In my view, they are the lowest form of ingrate and deserve immediate extradition to whatever country will take them.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> In my view, they are the lowest form of ingrate and deserve immediate extradition to whatever country will take them.


The key word or description is "inappropriate." 

Whether the behavior is "champagne socialism" or "satanic," it comes down to people being over-the-top in their use of ideas, formats and politics.


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## Rover030 (Dec 6, 2016)

pesto said:


> You are missing the symbolism of the act. They are not protesting a particular issue: they are attacking the principles on which America is based.
> 
> If you look at letters from Civil War soldiers or WWII soldiers on D Day they say things like "I know there is little chance I will survive tomorrow and I will never see my sons grow up, but I just can't live with myself if I know there are people craving freedom and having it denied to them. It is my responsibility as a human being to give them the liberty my family and I have been blessed with".
> 
> ...


You know, when I was a kid I used to think the biggest American value was freedom. But then you see comments like this and you realise that for many Americans, the biggest value is unconditional nationalism.

Don't you see how ridiculous this is? Veterans fought for your or someone else's freedom, but you can't use your freedom of speech to do whatever you want during the national anthem. Then you apparently deserve extradition.

And this ignores that an actual veteran said that kneeling is a good middle ground because it's still a respectful pose. On sites like reddit you also see lots of veterans that say: "We fought for the Constitution that guarantees people's freedom to do things like this, not for the flag or the national anthem or whatever.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Rover030 said:


> but you can't use your freedom of speech to do whatever you want during the national anthem.


You do realize the issue involves people at the workplace? Employees at a football stadium, in a public setting, paid big money to perform their work.


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## Rover030 (Dec 6, 2016)

californiadreams said:


> You do realize the issue involves people at the workplace? Employees at a football stadium, in a public setting, paid big money to perform their work.


I responded to this: "In my view, they are the lowest form of ingrate and deserve immediate extradition to whatever country will take them." That's advocating for authoritarian government intervention against free speech. 

A president actively campaigning to get people fired who exercise their freedom of speech in a public setting (your words) also clearly violates principles of freedom, even if it is legally allowed. 

And no matter how, it's just a hypocritical attitude that you want to take away freedom from people to somehow honor people who fought for people's freedom.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Rover030 said:


> And no matter how, it's just a hypocritical attitude that you want to take away freedom from people to somehow honor people who fought for people's freedom.


So if people show up at your house, they therefore have the right to do as they please. They're expecting dinner. They want - actually demand - that you serve them champagne and caviar. Call it the Tonya Harding/Bruce Jenner Special.

The way you judge concepts and rules, you make me think of the people managing the first time London hosted the Olympics:


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## Rover030 (Dec 6, 2016)

You say I'm judging concepts wrong, but you're trying to use an analogy with positive rights in a situation about negative rights :bash:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Rover030 said:


> You say I'm judging concepts wrong, but you're trying to use an analogy with positive rights in a situation about negative rights :bash:


If you attend a friend's or relative's wedding dressed up in flip-flops, a T-shirt, and jeans with holes around the knees, the hosts are expressing negative rights if they disapprove of the way you look and your positive rights to be comfortable.

Speaking of clothing, I don't know what evening gowns and fashion designers have to do with an Olympic games:


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## JJG (Aug 4, 2010)

I came here for updates on the next American hosted Olympics and get political crap, instead... smh.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Rover030 said:


> You know, when I was a kid I used to think the biggest American value was freedom. But then you see comments like this and you realise that for many Americans, the biggest value is unconditional nationalism.
> 
> Don't you see how ridiculous this is? Veterans fought for your or someone else's freedom, but you can't use your freedom of speech to do whatever you want during the national anthem. Then you apparently deserve extradition.
> 
> And this ignores that an actual veteran said that kneeling is a good middle ground because it's still a respectful pose. On sites like reddit you also see lots of veterans that say: "We fought for the Constitution that guarantees people's freedom to do things like this, not for the flag or the national anthem or whatever.


A bit naïve. The US stands for the idea that the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT cannot infringe your right to free speech. Private or local governmental parties (churches, businesses, fire departments, whoever) can and do so all the time. Non-governmental organizations have the right and duty to control public speech and behavior when it is in their interests or the interests of public safety to do so.

I agree that there is nothing than can legally be done about ignorant ingrates such as those who attract attention to themselves by public disrespect. Maybe someone could urinate on a rainbow flag or a copy of the Koran next week. But as a private citizen I would encourage sports leagues to terminate them immediately or demand a written apology and a few months of visiting Russia or N. Korea to see what the world would be like if that flag had never existed.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

JJG said:


> I came here for updates on the next American hosted Olympics and get political crap, instead... smh.


Sorry for the disappointment. A few things:

1. MTA is proceeding with the major rail projects and expects to complete the Purple Line from downtown (where many events are) to Westwood, where some events and the athlete housing will be located.

2. They also expect to have the LAX people mover completed. This will provide quick access to car rentals, buses and the subway. It is unclear how this will connect to the Inglewood stadium complex which is a mile from the end of the people mover, but studies are underway.

3. DT LA is undergoing a massive transformation, with a dozen towers underway and a dozen more expected. This has created a bustling DT area that is active at night. However, there is a growing group of street people (mostly seriously damaged drug addicts) putting up tents and living there. So far the city/county/state have not figured out a way to address this.

4. Construct is not really required. USC's renovation of the Coliseum is on track (although the changes are not popular). BOC stadium is complete. Inglewood stadium will be done within a year. The new Clippers arena is locally approved and getting its EIR. Unclear if these will host any events.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

So, we are re-energized with this morning's announcement about the UNITED 2026 bid being awarded the FIFA World Cup.

LA has been proposed for the opening and final match. 

*2023* LAX Automated People Mover will be complete and in operation. It will start at the new massive consolidated Rent-a-Car facility, then stop at the Metro Crenshaw Line at Aviation and 96th St. The it will stop the Intermodal Transportation Facility before heading to LAX. At LAX, it will have three stops in the middle, with lateral pedestrian walkways tot he terminals.










*LAX* Aside from the remake of the Tom Bradley International Terminal, LAX is building 12 extra gates as a Bradley Midfiled Concourse.

It will be connected to Tom Bradley by a tunnel.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

The Coliseum area will be different for 2028. Less parking since the area to the west is being taken out for a museum. That was surface parking in 1984, not exactly the best of settings for the stadium and the 23rd Olympiad. Then there's the stadium in Inglewood, which currently isn't scheduled to be too heavily used for on-field events of the 2028 games. Which is a good sign of there still being some extra capacity for the games should the need arise in the next 10 years.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

The Lucas will be adding 3000 underground parking spaces and I would assume will close for the day of the opening and closing ceremonies.

In any event, the Coliseum now has excellent rail connections to DT and the westside with no changes of train; and to the valleys, Hollywood and south LA with one change.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

http://www.whamrail.com/

Video released by the West Hollywood Advocates for Metro Rail. 



> *THANK YOU METRO. LET’S #FINISHTHELINE !*
> Thank you all for asking Metro to help us Finish the Line! Last month Metro’s CEO Phil Washington promised to accelerate studies for the Northern Extension of the Crenshaw Line. Thank you, Metro for helping get us shovel ready by 2020!
> 
> MOVE LA – “LIFE HAPPENS OUTSIDE YOUR CAR”


WEHO ON THE GO: 2028 OLYMPICS


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

A surprisingly accurate summary of the huge benefits of getting Crenshaw up to WeHo. Even in the absence of the Olympics, this is a winner for people wanting to move easily within one of the densest and tourist friendly parts of LA. 

As some background, the line chosen here goes up San Vicente to SM Blvd. Then east to La Brea and up to the Red Line at Hollywood/Highland. This would hit Cedars Sinai, Beverly Center, excellent shopping and dining, the heart of gay LA and provide you with a 1/2 mile climb to get to the Sunset Strip (shuttle to come?). 

As for the Olympics (or 2026 WC) the existing line allows fans and visitors to link from LAX to Inglewood, Ktown and DT where a lot of hotels and nightlife are centered. The extension would add WeHo, Beverly Center, Hollywood, UCLA, Westwood and the SFV to places more easily reached. Basically there would be better access to WeHo, etc., from everywhere in LA.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Los Angeles in 2028 will be in some major ways much more capable of hosting the games than in 1984. It will be nicer too---such as the backdrop of a new museum next to the Coliseum instead of parking lots. 

However, I hope that doesn't end up an irony in 2028 that's the opposite of the games in 1984. Or an irony similar to 2012. 

Even though London is a city that's supreme in attractiveness and the advantages of a huge transportation network, something about their games seemed off. Although many followers of the IOC say otherwise, the 2012 games ended up less remarkable than the city that hosted them. 

On the other hand, the 1984 games seemed more remarkable, or better and unexpected, than the city that hosted them. LA over 30 years ago was smoggier, more shabby and without modern conveniences like fixed rail. 

Think of the ancient Egyptians centuries ago and their pyramids. Who would have thought people without the advantages of modern technology could have accomplished the task of creating massive, impressive structures?

The future is unpredictable. But I do hope Los Angeles 2028 doesn't turn out ironic in just the opposite way of Los Angeles 1984.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

OK, London, watch out. Californiadreams is on the hunt again. :lol:

Please do not retaliate against LA. This is a one-off poster whose views are uniquely his own.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Funny how some cities are begging for Metro to connect them to rail and others, like snooty Beverly Hills fight it so much. To me, the Crenshaw Line extension to the Red Line is a complete changer for the system, it will practically compete with the Blue Line for the busiest. 

BTW, anyone know when Metro will be assigning letters lo the lines?


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> This is a one-off poster whose views are uniquely his own.


 Hell, ya. 

Look at all the people who'd disagree with me about London 2012's graceful, iconic tower. It was reportedly a roller coaster scrapped by Magic Mountain (or was that Knott's Berry Farm?) and shipped across the Atlantic.

Closer to home, I hope what's being done to the Coliseum isn't USC's attempt to level the playing field with 2012.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> Hell, ya.
> 
> Look at all the people who'd disagree with me about London 2012's graceful, iconic tower. It was reportedly a roller coaster scrapped by Magic Mountain (or was that Knott's Berry Farm?) and shipped across the Atlantic.
> 
> Closer to home, I hope what's being done to the Coliseum isn't USC's attempt to level the playing field with 2012.


Reminds me of Tatlin's Tower for the 3rd International. Knowing the sophistication of London's architects, I would assume the reference did not escape them either. But, hey, maybe it's Magic Mountain.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> Reminds me of Tatlin's Tower for the 3rd International.


That at least would have been more impressive:










Another issue of transportation in LA, now and in the future, is LAX. Its Bradley International Terminal was built by the time the 1984 games rolled around. Over 30 years later, LAX is still behind where it should have been a long time ago. Such as having an easier method for getting travelers and visitors to and from all the terminals. The current horseshoe roadway is often a clogged mess. 

https://news.get.com/bombardier-wins-contract-build-new-people-mover-los-angeles-airport/




> *
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Tradition and formality have taken a beating over the past 30 years. I hope Tokyo 2020 is able to create some of that, as Tokyo 1964 was able to do. But modern culture and politics make that less realistic. 2020 is more likely to be the Anime games. 2028 is more likely to be what? The Kardashian games?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> That at least would have been more impressive:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Didn't the moderators decide long ago that this is not a dumping grounds for your old videos of prior Olympics? There is another thread for that.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Plus he repeats the same things over and over again.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Also, by 2026, two years before the Olympics and right on the money for the WC...the Purple Line Extension would have been completed to Westwood.











The Downtown Regional Connector will be done by 2021.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Kenni said:


> Plus he repeats the same things over and over again.


 As for posting over and over again about future transit systems in LA is what? It's a topic somehow way more relevant to a two-week sporting event? Then again, maybe the IOC is considering a new category for fastest subway cars and fastest trains? 

However, don't Olympic athletic events supposed to involve humans, not inanimate objects? Aren't the Olympics supposed to be about physical skills, coordination, strength, movement?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Kenni said:


> Also, by 2026, two years before the Olympics and right on the money for the WC...the Purple Line Extension would have been completed to Westwood.


Clearly, the decisions on the Olympics and WC were made at opportune times, with enough time left to get some major projects fully scoped and built. I assume Purple will link to Westwood, with shuttles up to the athletes' village and Pauley; the Peoplemover will be in place at LAX; and Crenshaw will be done and with some solution for getting to Inglewood stadium.

If we are looking for a "reach" project, it would be nice to see someone really take hold of N. Crenshaw to WeHo and Hollywood and really drive that through.

Of course, vagabonds shooting-up in tents along Fig and Exposition and all over DT is still my big concern.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Yes! I said it in before, the extension of the Crenshaw Line is paramount, and the vagabond problem for me is also pressing. I reiterate that the majority of them need a swift kick in the c*lo, get to work, be productive. True sick, mentally ill, homeless....I'm all for supporting them...but also for them to get some normalcy.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://urbanize.la/post/31-story-ho...aton-universal
https://urbanize.la/post/universal-c...tory-expansion

As posted by losangelino in the LA city threads: two new hotel complexes at the location of the Olympics press center.

This will allow the reporters to cover the rides (and bars) at Universal more easily when some of the really boring Olympic events are on.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> https://urbanize.la/post/31-story-ho...aton-universal
> https://urbanize.la/post/universal-c...tory-expansion
> 
> As posted by losangelino in the LA city threads: two new hotel complexes at the location of the Olympics press center.
> ...


Those links are gone.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> Those links are gone.


Hmmm. I looked at them this morning where they were originally posted but they are down now. It would seem odd that both were cancelled or otherwise in error.

In any event, they called for a high rise and a couple of midrise hotels on the existing hotel grounds near Universal Studios. Universal has been booming since the Harry Potter rides opened.

Try this.

https://urbanize.la/post/31-story-hotel-tower-planned-sheraton-universal


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://la.curbed.com/2018/6/22/17495660/homeless-streets-sleeping-ban-enforcement

Praise the Lord. Garcetti may have finally found his gonads and have taken a unique approach toward bums camping on the streets: enforce the existing law!

One small step toward making LA look like less like a third world city for the Olympics. The next will be to put subsidized care and housing WAY, WAY AWAY from DT. Try E. 37th, for example.

After all, these people found their way from Florida, Ohio, Texas, etc.; they can certainly find their way 2 miles south east without serious disruptions to their lives.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Yes, I support re-instating that ban that hasn't been enforced since 2007.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.curbed.com/2018/7/10/17554124/olympics-la-2028-impact-housing-crisis

An article re the effect of the Olympics on LA.

It seems the biggest threat to LA from the Olympics is that the city will clean-up, create more jobs and housing and attract more people with skills, talent, energy and initiative. And worst of all, it will drive the bombed-out derelicts, welfare freeloaders and entitled do-nothings into care centers or to somewhere cheaper.


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## JohnDee (May 20, 2015)

californiadreams said:


> As for posting over and over again about future transit systems in LA is what? It's a topic somehow way more relevant to a two-week sporting event? Then again, maybe the IOC is considering a new category for fastest subway cars and fastest trains?
> 
> However, don't Olympic athletic events supposed to involve humans, not inanimate objects? Aren't the Olympics supposed to be about physical skills, coordination, strength, movement?


Games require a lot of physical skill and coordination. Moving a mouse precisely and not missing is a skill of coordination, and it is a physical movement of the hand.


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## sweet-d (Jul 20, 2010)

pesto said:


> https://la.curbed.com/2018/6/22/17495660/homeless-streets-sleeping-ban-enforcement
> 
> Praise the Lord. Garcetti may have finally found his gonads and have taken a unique approach toward bums camping on the streets: enforce the existing law!
> 
> ...



Yeah we all know how horrible it is to look at people who aren't rich.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

JohnDee said:


> Games require a lot of physical skill and coordination. Moving a mouse precisely and not missing is a skill of coordination, and it is a physical movement of the hand.


NOT gonna happen. For TV purposes, watching grass grow is more exciting.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

sweet-d said:


> Yeah we all know how horrible it is to look at people who aren't rich.


Yeah, or to look at a Vietnamese mother help her 3 year old daughter to step over a derelict who paws at her as she goes by; or watch a guy masturbating the guy next to him in exchange for a drink out of a bottle; or watch a guy take a dump in the middle of the street and then dance around. I could give a hundred (yes, a hundred) more examples as could anyone (mostly poor) who live in these neighborhoods.

Redevelopment, repair, enforcing the law, creating conservatorships, etc., helps the POOR and near poor. There are no problems in rich 'hoods; only in poor and lower middle ones trying to pull themselves up.

Here is a summary of proposed legislation which pretty much lets you know what the issue is here. My position has 100 percent support of the far-left controlled state legislature and the far-left new mayor of SF.

http://sd11.senate.ca.gov/news/2018...elp-chronically-homeless-severe-mental-health


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

JohnDee said:


> Games require a lot of physical skill and coordination. Moving a mouse precisely and not missing is a skill of coordination, and it is a physical movement of the hand.


LOL. I had to read three times before I realized you were serious.

But I guess I won't get into what else requires the skillful movement of a hand and works up heavy breathing. Olympics, here we come! :lol:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

The main point here is that the legislature is making it possible to remove the sleeping bags and tent cities that are now blocking sidewalks near many Olympic venues. This will allow development of these areas, which are adjacent to areas with high growth (the Arts Dist., South Park, Koreatown, etc.).

So this is extremely good news for Garcetti and the Olympics people. Not only is the city rendered more livable but the action comes from Sacramento not locally.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

sweet-d said:


> Yeah we all know how horrible it is to look at people who aren't rich.


That has nothing to do with it. My stance is that there are some truly mentally ill homeless that need our help. But maybe half of them just don't wanna try. 

Take a walk down Spring St. and 5th, it smells like urine...strong urine. Tents under overpasses with people drunk, on drugs, then they go to the many charitable organizations for food, some medical attention, etc.....if they want to. Some don't give a f**k about society. 

Many of them need our help, and WE VOTED TO TAX ourselves, again, to help them out, the State also is adding to that a few more millions from the surplus. 

If we give them housing, that doesn't cost them anything, we are not helping them. Living scott free, no responsibilities. They will continue not caring to TRY. I advise anyone, take a stroll, go see for yourself. It's nice and dandy to sit on ones moral hill from afar. Go, go to skid row.

Being poor doesn't mean being a street defecating hobo. Being rich doesn't mean you don't care. Heck, I'm poor, we all have problems.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

Didn't read.. (sorry ) :shifty:



But, anyway, who cares when France in gonna playing the FIFA WC final, and the (fantastic as usual) Tour de France just started !! :yes:


:bowtie::bowtie::bowtie:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Kenni said:


> That has nothing to do with it. My stance is that there are some truly mentally ill homeless that need our help. But maybe half of them just don't wanna try.
> 
> Take a walk down Spring St. and 5th, it smells like urine...strong urine. Tents under overpasses with people drunk, on drugs, then they go to the many charitable organizations for food, some medical attention, etc.....if they want to. Some don't give a f**k about society.
> 
> ...


Yes; all that is being done here is that the state is trying to clear sidewalks in poor (largely immigrant) parts of town and establish 'hoods that aren't festering with drug dealing and disease. In the case of LA it happens that many of these are near the DT Olympic facilities; however, this is not directly connected to the Olympics since it applies county wide and possibly in SF as well. 

It will be interesting to see how this is administered. Typically there is plenty of litigation before anything useful happens. That's one of the reasons that starting now is important.

On a related note, the World Cup is not likely to be played near DT, but there could be related events at LA Live or LAFC. Inglewood stadium and the Venice/SaMo area could be spots for WC activity as well.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

One thing for sure: Opening Ceremony will start at 8:28 p.m. :wink2:


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

EDIT


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

http://www.venuesnow.com/news/detail/inglewood

This article talks about what is being planned in Inglewood which will be involved in opening and closing ceremonies and several events. 

As a minor point, LAX may be 5th in total traffic but it is 1st in people who land there and stay there (as opposed to connecting to somewhere else). As such the eyeballs in the airplanes are even more valuable.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

^^ Yep that's true! LAX is the busiest "O&D" (origin and destination) airport in the world; i.e. LAX has more people who start there or finish their trip there than any other airport. The 4 airports which are usually above it in world rankings - Atlanta, Beijing, Tokyo-Narita and Dubai - all have a higher percentage of transfer flights than LAX.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

In other news, some big news should be coming soon about a MAJOR LA 2028 venue, The Convention Center and Staples Center! :cheers: From a post I made in the Staples Center thread:












> *While celebrating the 10th anniversary of L.A. Live, AEG looks to expand the Downtown Los Angeles entertainment complex*
> By KELLI SKYE FADROSKI | [email protected] | Orange County Register
> PUBLISHED: July 8, 2018 at 7:08 am | UPDATED: July 8, 2018 at 12:22 pm
> 
> ...


link to the article: https://www.dailynews.com/2018/07/0...e-downtown-los-angeles-entertainment-complex/ (_emphasis mine_)

Here's a map of the overall plan:











So to recap:

*- Expanded Convention Center*

*- new 40 story hotel/convention center addition*

*- Renovated/Refurbished Staples Center*



So my guesses: the new hotel addition will be packaged with the JW Marriott to be the IOC's "family and friends" hotel, should be more than enough room now! And regarding the convention center, it'll be interesting to see how the expanded space is used! I have a feeling that the convention center's plans will be fine-tuned and changed once the big current wildcard gets figured out - the proposed new LA Clippers Arena in Inglewood. But that's a post for another time! :cheers:


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## JJG (Aug 4, 2010)

Knitemplar said:


> NOT gonna happen. For TV purposes, watching grass grow is more exciting.


...what?


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

JJG said:


> ...what?


Meaning, since I have to explain it; having people just flick their thumbs on video games does NOT make for EXCITING TV, therefore the networks who PAY oodles of $$ for exciting TV images for their sponsors won't be making HUGE bids if the content will be snooze-material like having nerds just push control buttons on a screen.


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## JJG (Aug 4, 2010)

Knitemplar said:


> Meaning, since I have to explain it; having people just flick their thumbs on video games does NOT make for EXCITING TV, therefore the networks who PAY oodles of $$ for exciting TV images for their sponsors won't be making HUGE bids if the content will be snooze-material like having nerds just push control buttons on a screen.


. . . you do realize that ESPN shows eSports events, right? 

And, "nerds"? Seriously? What are you, a mid 80s movie bully? This is about the most narrow-minded post I've ever seen.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

JJG said:


> . . . you do realize that ESPN shows eSports events, right? What are you, a mid 80s movie bully? This is about the most narrow-minded post I've ever seen.
> .


And you do realize that ESPN does NOT bid for the Olympics, right?? 

What are you, a millenial "all-knowing" idiot? Yours is about the most narrow-minded post I've ever seen. hno:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

JJG said:


> . . . you do realize that ESPN shows eSports events, right?
> 
> And, "nerds"? Seriously? What are you, a mid 80s movie bully? This is about the most narrow-minded post I've ever seen.


I think that eSports relate to real sports in the same way as putting on goggles relates to having a real girlfriend. :lol:

I don't have any problem with having tournaments with board games or electronic games, but the participants are not athletes. Then again, I've never been convinced that a number of other sports are really Olympic appropriate in the sense of "Citius, Altius, Fortius".


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## JJG (Aug 4, 2010)

Knitemplar said:


> And you do realize that ESPN does NOT bid for the Olympics, right??
> 
> What are you, a millenial "all-knowing" idiot? Yours is about the most narrow-minded post I've ever seen. hno:


I was pointing out this notion that "no one" watches eSports on TV, as you're suggesting. 

The second part of your post pretty much solidifies that narrow-mindedness I was talking about. It's as childish as it gets, basically the equivalent of "I know you are but what am I".

It isn't just "nerds flicking their thumbs", it's a growing, near-billion dollar industry with people of all backgrounds and professions.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

JJG said:


> I was pointing out this notion that "no one" watches eSports on TV, as you're suggesting.
> 
> The second part of your post pretty much solidifies that narrow-mindedness I was talking about. It's as childish as it gets, basically the equivalent of "I know you are but what am I".
> 
> It isn't just "nerds flicking their thumbs", it's a growing, near-billion dollar industry with people of all backgrounds and professions.


Ok, it's a growing, near-billion dollar industry with people of all backgrounds and profession flicking their thumbs. 

You may love it; and software firms may be growing rich from it. But that doesn't mean that it is athletic or appropriate for the Olympics.

Can we keep this out of the 2028 thread? Sounds like it belongs somewhere else.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

JJG said:


> It isn't just "nerds flicking their thumbs", it's a growing, near-billion dollar industry with people of all backgrounds and professions.


So is OTB and NASCAR. But you don't see those getting on the Olympic slate. Of course, since you're a "know-it-all," bet you didn't realize that the Olympic charter states that the sports to be featured in the Olympic Games must be powered by human sweat and NOT by machines. 

There are OVER 2 dozen other sports on the line-up of wannabee Olympic sports and e-games isn't even in the top 35. hno:


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

in other news...












> *Inglewood Considers People Mover to Connect Crenshaw Line with NFL Stadium
> Proposed 1.8-mile system would be fully elevated.*
> 
> by STEVEN SHARP on July 17, 2018, 1:00PM
> ...


https://urbanize.la/post/inglewood-considers-people-mover-connect-crenshaw-line-nfl-stadium

So it looks like LA Stadium may get connection to the LA Metro system! Through a separate transit agency though of course. This system would connect the Forum, which would host the Gymnastics and Trampoline competitions, and LA Stadium, which would host the Opening Ceremonies and the Archery competition. The first render is of the APM's connection with the Crenshaw/LAX line on the LA Metro system. Here's a rendering of the proposed Forum station, with LA Stadium in the background:










and a map of the whole APM line:











as you can see the line ends at the proposed Clippers Arena and HQ, which currently is in the planning stages and which has no Olympic use yet:











Though if it all goes through I have to imagine LA 2028 and the Clippers can find SOME way to incorporate a brand new $1 Billion arena. If you guys have any ideas of what to use it for, please, speculate away! :cheers:


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

/\/\ Study this. 

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea...d-airport-connector-turning-into-10984679.php

The 3.2 mile connection between BART-Coliseum station and the Oakland Airport cost something like $420 million -- now it's bleeding $$. I wonder if the new LA Arena connector will be cost-effective? For the Olympics, it will only be Opening. I think Closing might be at the LA Memorial for history's sake PLUS they would have the awarding of medals for the Marathon, other last-day finals there & the dousing of the Cauldron. So whatever they have scheduled for the Forum? Gymnastics or Indoor Volleyball? (Archery is only like 4 days behind the new Arena if I read the Bid book right.)


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

Thanks for the link! Regarding the Forum, for the Olympics it's planned to host the Gymnastics and Trampoline competitions:


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## JJG (Aug 4, 2010)

Knitemplar said:


> So is OTB and NASCAR. But you don't see those getting on the Olympic slate. Of course, since you're a "know-it-all," bet you didn't realize that the Olympic charter states that the sports to be featured in the Olympic Games must be powered by human sweat and NOT by machines.


I said NOTHING about eSports being in the Olympics or even having it introduced into the Olympics at all. *My* whole point was the smug comment about "nerds" and no one wanting to watch it on tv.

Sorry to derail, but jesus... 

Anyway, carry on with the rest of the thread.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> /\/\ Study this.
> 
> https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea...d-airport-connector-turning-into-10984679.php
> 
> The 3.2 mile connection between BART-Coliseum station and the Oakland Airport cost something like $420 million -- now it's bleeding $$. I wonder if the new LA Arena connector will be cost-effective? For the Olympics, it will only be Opening. I think Closing might be at the LA Memorial for history's sake PLUS they would have the awarding of medals for the Marathon, other last-day finals there & the dousing of the Cauldron. So whatever they have scheduled for the Forum? Gymnastics or Indoor Volleyball? (Archery is only like 4 days behind the new Arena if I read the Bid book right.)


This really isn't aimed at the Olympics, except in the sense that anything going on in Inglewood would be affected by having it in place. 

The target audience is people attending concerts at the Forum, football and conventions at Inglewood stadium, and Clippers games and concerts at the new Clippers arena. Each would get its own stop since they are about a half mile apart. Also benefitting would be the casino, hotels and workers in the area and whatever other uses are found for the complex.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

I thought I had posted the Inglewood council meeting where this was approved and the study they had performed, but maybe not. 

A couple of additional points: MTA was not asked to review an underground line because of the cost and because there would be greater disruption during construction.

Alternatives that would have linked to the LAX Peoplemover were rejected since they would not give as good of coverage to DT Inglewood, which is one of the key drivers for the Mayor and Council.

Ridership would be free for those connecting with an existing Metro ticket.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

pesto said:


> This really isn't aimed at the Olympics, except in the sense that anything going on in Inglewood would be affected by having it in place.


Yeah, important point to make; this is NOT a project that solely has the Olympics in mind. Rather it's one of many planned transit/infrastructure improvements that the 2028 Games will be able to take advantage of. No way this gets greenlit if it's only use is for a two week event ten years away!




pesto said:


> Ridership would be free for those connecting with an existing Metro ticket.


That's the right way to do it! Incorporating the TAP card system is essentially to making this a REAL transportation option as opposed to just a novelty. And in addition, I do think it's important to collect fares if you're just going from one part of it to the other, hopefully though they can develop some kind of monthly fee ala Metro in order to make this thing truly useful and spur residential development along this part of Inglewood.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

JJG said:


> . . . you do realize that ESPN *shows eSports *events, right?
> .


"_Didn't mention anything about eGames_"? What about eSports? hno:

Are you a Trumpie speechwriter? Jeez, Louise . . . carry on.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB-bgzpj04k

Starting at about 11 minutes there is a report to the Inglewood City Council on the issues and tentative conclusions re transit to the new stadiums.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Now definite. *No esports* for Paris 2024. (Don't see why that would change for 2028.) 

https://www.insidethegames.biz/arti...ports-as-esports-told-it-cannot-be-considered


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> Now definite. *No esports* for Paris 2024. (Don't see why that would change for 2028.)
> 
> https://www.insidethegames.biz/arti...ports-as-esports-told-it-cannot-be-considered


Even talking about this is embarrassing. Let the non-nerds have their own competition whenever and wherever they want and work out their own TV deal. This really has nothing to do with the Olympics.

It's also good to see that the quota on athletes will be lowered for Paris. Hopefully this will rid the Games of a few of the many non-sports or indistinguishable events ("145m men's half-freestyle, half backstroke breath-holding relay").


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

I went through the thread about the 2020 games in Tokyo and saw updates on their rising buildings for events and participants. They made me further appreciate the nature of the 2028 games. At least the part where instead of building a huge village for a two-week event, 2028 will use the campus of UCLA.

Some athletes may favor the "new car" smell of a master-planned complex built specifically for them and their involvement in sports. But when the planners for another Olympics in LA originally envisioned building a village next to the LA river, my enthusiasm for their effort crashed.

I think this will have more appeal and charm than a place that has a "new car" smell. Although the reality and actual outcome of 2028 admittedly are still years into the future.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> I went through the thread about the 2020 games in Tokyo and saw updates on their rising buildings for events and participants. They made me further appreciate the nature of the 2028 games. At least the part where instead of building a huge village for a two-week event, 2028 will use the campus of UCLA.
> 
> Some athletes may favor the "new car" smell of a master-planned complex built specifically for them and their involvement in sports. But when the planners for another Olympics in LA originally envisioned building a village next to the LA river, my enthusiasm for their effort crashed.
> 
> I think this will have more appeal and charm than a place that has a "new car" smell. Although the reality and actual outcome of 2028 admittedly are still years into the future.


Agree. The "new villages" have reputations for shoddy construction and becoming slums or squatter centers. The proposed village on the LA River would have had the same potential.

Speaking of which, the brand new SF Mayor has personally supervised the rousting out of vagabonds in an encampment in a developing area of the city. The are being sent to "Navigation Centers" which will house and feed them and direct them to city, state, county and federal aid they can apply for. She has committed to having every camp and tent gone from SF in 1 year. The sooner that LA can get this going the better.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> the brand new SF Mayor has personally supervised the rousting out of vagabonds in an encampment in a developing area of the city. The are being sent to "Navigation Centers" which will house and feed them and direct them to city, state, county and federal aid they can apply for. She has committed to having every camp and tent gone from SF in 1 year. The sooner that LA can get this going the better.


Your description made me curious enough to want to do more research on her.

To the admins, I don't think this is getting too OP from the thread. For one thing, San Francisco has long been considered a city supposedly most ideal to host another Olympics in the US. A few years ago, it was even on a short list of potential American urban areas the USOC would filter through and then present to the IOC. LA was not on that list.

Another thing, LA 2028 will look as bad as Rio 2016 if the homeless-squatter-pollution problem remains the way it is now and becomes even worse.

4:41 makes me think SF's new mayor may be effective. But then 6:16 and 6:56 makes me wonder whether she'll end up business-as-usual. 

Platitudes today, same-old-same-old tomorrow.

San Francisco has already lost a major convention group due to growing complaints about the condition of the city. Los Angeles will join that list if its politicians and others end up no different from same-old-same-old. Such as IOC members promising - always promising - to reduce the size and cost of Olympic summer games.

Similar to someone always saying, hey, the check is in the mail.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

There is little chance for SF due to large opposition and a lack of facilities in SF. Their last proposal assumed that Oakland, Palo Alto, San Jose and Santa Clara were going to do the hosting and all the visitors would stay in SF (naturally the hospitality industry was behind the push). There was also substantial building including a temporary stadium in the mid-Peninsula area.

I will be curious to see what is the next US city to host the Olympics due to the number of stadiums and other facilities needed. Even LA needs to send soccer matches to SD, SJ and Berkeley.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

With LA hosting in 2028 again, that boat for a SF Olympics has sailed. Even with the new Chase Center, SF will only be good for a World Figure Skating Championships, or either the Men's or Women's Indoor Volleyball Championships which they may to share with so. Cal.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Well, for a city the size of San Francisco that is an easier task. These are the city proper city limits, I wont even talk about the metro area.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

^^ Fun fact! LA's densest 47 square miles (the size of San Francisco) has almost the exact same density as SF! From Skyscraperpage:


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

Re: The Olympic Village, my two cents: Personally I've come to not only respect but agree with LA 2028's decision to use preexisting University Facilities as their Villages. The original plan was to repurpose Piggyback Yards on the LA River as the new Olympic Village:



















Of course that plan was discarded at an early stage and the UCLA plan came into effect. At first I was disappointed as not only LA but California as a whole is suffering through a major housing crisis, and ANY new housing is welcome. However, looking at other Olympic Cities it seems as if the OV concept is usually used by shady real estate developers looking to grift the government; after the Games they either become unsellable condos, dilapidated apartments or at worst ghettos. That future was definitely a possibility for any LA 2028 village, and best case scenario would have been a couple hundred apartments that would have only put a small dent in the housing issue, and cut off a very important city resource from the public at large. In the end I think it all worked out as it should; LA 2028 can repurpose University dorms and spend very little money and LA as a whole, once the river revitalization plan happens, will have a beautiful new park to enjoy:











All of that said, one Olympics I am curious about is London's 2012 Olympics, as they of all current hosts seem to have issues most similar to LA: developed country with overpriced housing. Robh is our current London 2012 expert... whatever happened to its OV buddy? :lol:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Interesting set of comparisons, statistics and maps.

It didn't seem that long ago when I thought that if any California city got the nod from the USOC, much less the IOC, it would probably be San Francisco. But that was back when I still bought the line that Olympic games - particularly summer ones - had to be hosted by totally different cities separated by no less than 50 to 60 years, if not much longer.

In 2018, that notion and tradition seem increasingly extravagant and quaint. However, there's still a slightly surrealistic quality about the idea and reality of Los Angeles 2028.

But who knows what the world and nation will be like in 10 years? National boundaries by then may be judged as so old-fashioned, even xenophobic, that the IOC in 2028 will demand there be only one gigantic team representing all peoples, all countries.

There may also be the 2028 organizing committee requiring a salute to the former Olympic track star Bruce Jenner, as occurred at the ESPN awards not too long ago. 

Only slightly sardonic because some of that was already seeping into the winter games in Korea earlier this year.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

aquamaroon said:


> In the end I think it all worked out as it should; LA 2028 can repurpose University dorms and spend very little money and LA as a whole, once the river revitalization plan happens, will have a beautiful new park to enjoy:


 I'd have qualms about UCLA if it were smaller, not nice enough - more along the lines of a junior college somewhere in the San Fernando Valley or Orange County - and not known for housing lots of people, athletes in particular. But even then, I still think host cities should get away from wanting to treat Olympic participants as though they're little princes and princesses.

Still, beyond that, I look at that video of UCLA put out by the LA 28 committee, compare it with the charmless abandoned mess in Rio, the possibly charmless sterile big condo-ville in Tokyo for 2020, and want to say to LA 28, where do I sign up?! 

But who knows what the reality will be - to actual Olympic participants - as we move closer to 2020, 2024 and 2028?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> With LA hosting in 2028 again, that boat for a SF Olympics has sailed. Even with the new Chase Center, SF will only be good for a World Figure Skating Championships, or either the Men's or Women's Indoor Volleyball Championships which they may to share with so. Cal.


The boat didn't sail; it leaked so badly that it sank at the dock. If due to the utter incompetence of the US committee (which is hard to overestimate) they had chosen SF to replace Boston, then the IOC would simply have chosen Paris for 2024 and suggested that some new cities apply for 2028.

It's hard to remember how surprising the idea of selecting two Olympic hosts at one time was two years ago. But the IOC viewed LA as a kind of miracle that had to be grabbed while available. A bid where you looked at facilities, organizing experts and sports marketing executives instead of half-assed drawings, back-of-the-envelope budgets and not too bright politicians and former athletes running the show.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> The boat didn't sail; it leaked so badly that it sank at the dock.


Uhmmm . . . it's a figure of speech. hno:



> It's hard to remember how surprising the idea of selecting two Olympic hosts at one time was two years ago. But the IOC viewed LA as a kind of miracle that had to be grabbed while available. A bid where you looked at facilities, organizing experts and sports marketing executives instead of half-assed drawings, back-of-the-envelope budgets and not too bright politicians and former athletes running the show.


Yeah, but the things I've never been happy with LA's configuration:

1. I hope they don't hold those Cycling time-trial events again on some doggone freeway again. 
2. Why doesn't LA have an enclosed velodrome like London or Sydney or Rio?

3. LA and Long Beach for many of the water events aren't exactly a hop, skip and a jump away.

4. Equestrian at Sepulveda Basin or whatever that place in the Valley is called?? WTF? I mean, after the Royal Greenwich School in London, Versailles for Paris 2024; the elegant sports of Equestrian will be in some park in the Valley? hno:

Yeah, yeah, I know -- what's already there. So, I have a right to kvetch . . .


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> I'd have qualms about UCLA if it were smaller, not nice enough - more along the lines of a junior college somewhere in the San Fernando Valley or Orange County - and not known for housing lots of people, athletes in particular. But even then, I still think host cities should get away from wanting to treat Olympic participants as though they're little princes and princesses.
> 
> Still, beyond that, I look at that video of UCLA put out by the LA 28 committee, compare it with the charmless abandoned mess in Rio, the possibly charmless sterile big condo-ville in Tokyo for 2020, and want to say to LA 28, where do I sign up?!
> 
> But who knows what the reality will be - to actual Olympic participants - as we move closer to 2020, 2024 and 2028?


Actually, I can remember from that time that some athletes refused to leave. Some hid there after it was closed down, some claimed asylum and others just disappeared into the country.

And as long as we are on athletes, there needs to be severe cutting back. Tokyo is getting about 11k and Paris is hopeful to trim back a bit. It is pretty much common knowledge that about 90 percent know there is no chance of medaling so they just treat the time as a sex and alcohol orgy at government expense. 

Sending them back as soon as their sport ends or they are eliminated from contention helps. But better is just eliminate sports or cut back on who is allowed to compete.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> Uhmmm . . . it's a figure of speech. hno:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Velodromes are known for being huge losers of money; not worth building unless you are an authoritarian state.

Equestrian needs to go (as do a number of other sports).


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Knitemplar said:


> I mean, after the Royal Greenwich School in London, Versailles for Paris 2024; the elegant sports of Equestrian will be in some park in the Valley?


I know what you mean and I'd have been more into newer, bigger, nicer, fancier several years ago. But after so much time and money were poured into the 2012 and 2016 summer games, if not the recent winter ones in Russia and Korea too, the games have taken on the quality of warm soda after all the fizz has gone out.

That's not due to budgets being too modest or facilities not being nice enough. It's also not due to a host city being too much of a mess---London is one of the most postcard-ideal places in the world.

It's also not due to the effect of terrorism as occurred in 1996 and certainly 1972.

Organizing committees have a series of items on a checklist they need to tick off. Some of those items are dependent on money, some on logistics, some on creativity, some on timing, some on good sense, some on sheer luck.

I'll always judge an event like the 2012 games as fumbling parts of the checklist by not even choosing something as basic as a good official logo. For 2016, it was because the games shouldn't have been held in a region where spectator interest isn't high enough.

I don't know if Los Angeles 2028 can dodge all the bullets directed at any Olympic games. So don't think I'm sitting here confident in an upcoming international event closer to my part of the world.

For instance, I saw articles about attendance at Rams games at the Coliseum last year. That received a lot of national attention and jeers. Even Boise, Idaho would have generated a larger crowd. Knowing the type of politics that dominate the LA area, I also wouldn't want to blame that for a major reason why many people decided to dress up as empty seats.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> Velodromes are known for being huge losers of money; not worth building unless you are an authoritarian state.
> .


Who cares about a solvent bottom line? The tradition of grandiose white Olympic elephants MUST be maintained at all costs. After all, when we are all dust again, these white monuments MUST remain!! :nuts:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> Who cares about a solvent bottom line? The tradition of grandiose white Olympic elephants MUST be maintained at all costs. After all, when we are all dust again, these white monuments MUST remain!! :nuts:


I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who said—“Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
And on the pedestal, these words appear:
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
Except for some tattered LA 2028 pennants 
and a dried up churro.”


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

All kidding aside, the 2016 summer games, among others, have really pounded me in the head. I not only don't have a more positive impression of Rio since their games, I actually have a more negative impression of that city. 

Much of that was due to poor publicity before, during and after 2016 came and went. A negative impression in spite of Brazil spending hundreds of millions of dollars and putting so much time and effort into the games too. 

For what? For a two-week - 16-days - sporting event. 

Hell, if the Olympics at least were something like 21 days long and also included a gathering of top scientists, doctors, inventors, engineers, architects, artists, singers, accountants, mathematicians, astronomers, etc, I then might understand all the fuss.

I wonder what the LA committee is going to come up with for 2028?

Another version of Sam the Eagle? Another Izzy?






 

Another Mandeville and Wenlock?











When I talked about the checklist that organizing committees have to tick off, I totally forgot about the choice of official mascots. 

Another reason why 2012's fantastic looking location, big money and very good facilities do not a great Olympics make.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

californiadreams said:


> For what? For a two-week - 16-days - sporting event.
> 
> Hell, if the Olympics at least were something like 21 days long.


Well, technically, it is an OLYMPIC (in BOLD) and Paralympic (upper/lower) festival. So 17 days for the main event, and usually 10 days for the added attraction. So something like 27 days PLUS the test events the year before. 

(And then the championships of the various US federations will also be held at the Olympic venues as that is the added advantage that the host country pays for.) 

As for adding more "legitimate" events during or around the Olympic period. Nope. The IOC host contract forbids -- and I am just paraphrasing-- other major international events (like a World's Fair, for example; or a Universiade (a rival federation) within a year of bookends of the Olympic and Paralympic dates. And the bidding cities are supposed to study the IOC Host City contract before they get any farther with the bidding process. The only thing allowable, and I believe Paris 2024 is reviving them -- are arts and other cultural competitions which could comprise an Olympic Arts or Cultural Festival which every O host city does attempt to put on in some scale. Just really depends on the resources the host city wants to allocate for that effort. 

Of course, LA 1984 did a TREMENDOUS job with the 1984 Olympic Cultural Festival. I don't see why it would NOT be repeated for 2028.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> All kidding aside, the 2016 summer games, among others, have really pounded me in the head. I not only don't have a more positive impression of Rio since their games, I actually have a more negative impression of that city.
> 
> Much of that was due to poor publicity before, during and after 2016 came and went. A negative impression in spite of Brazil spending hundreds of millions of dollars and putting so much time and effort into the games too.
> 
> ...


Chucho the Churro?

And it didn't take long for you to stop talking about LA and get off on your fixations about London, Rio, etc., and their mascots. Can't you just stick to posting in the general thread created for you and others interested in the history of failed Olympics?


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

--


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

aquamaroon said:


> All of that said, one Olympics I am curious about is London's 2012 Olympics, as they of all current hosts seem to have issues most similar to LA: developed country with overpriced housing. Robh is our current London 2012 expert... whatever happened to its OV buddy? :lol:





> _Nearly 6,000 people – and 23 retailers – now call East Village home, and over the coming years it’s set to grow further_


It's doing very well, it was never not going to - any new housing is always going to be snapped up. Bizarrely the government sold it to Qataris (during the financial crisis I think) so they're profiting from it, but it is new housing anyway and occupancy is high.

I haven't been down there for a year or so but my impression is _other_ housing developments which were to be built on plots freed up post-Olympics* are moving at a glacial pace, and this is the biggest problem. i.e. the problem is supply, not demand. But then that's London generally.

Worth remembering also that the Olympic village was only a small part of the housing planned for this area - 2000 of the 10000 homes planned (#11 on this diagram). The Olympic Park (and environs) was and is a thirty year regeneration project, with the Olympics coming at a very early stage of it.

Looking at other threads, I'm pleased to see the new housing by the velodrome (where the temporary basketball arena sat) is now there. That was meant to be opened in 2015 and last time I was down there was a huge building site still. So it's getting there, but slowly.

Taking the thread back on topic, this is why there's no point being overly prescriptive about these things. If a city needs new housing creating an Olympic village that can be used for that purpose is sensible. LA decided to go a different way which was sensible for its own needs. Neither is wrong.

* e.g. where temporary venues or public spaces were when the Park was hosting 200k people a day in 2012


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

This weekend is the 10 year mark. Per the bid book, The OC would have been this Friday.....

No major fires, air is not so bad this week (compared to fourth of July week). Weather is PERFECT :lol:. Mid 80s to mid 90s. Gives you an idea as to how the weather will be these next two weeks. 
We have a excessive heat warning for inland valleys. possible summer t-storms in the mountain areas. 

WEATHER.COM

1) *LA BASIN: Track and Field, Swimming, Diving, Rugby etc.* 07/20/2018 - Friday









2) *Lake Perris Rowing, SF Valley Sports Park area.* 07/23/2018 - Monday









3) *Santa Monica Beach and Long Beach areas: Beach Volleyball, Triathlon, Sailing* 07/23/2018 - Monday








High Surf advisory as well. Great for Surfing competitions....


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

^^ Such a long build up isn't it? LA should change its plan just for a laugh and build everything new, as big and expensive as possible. It'll still have it all done with three years to spare. :lol:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

redspork02 said:


> This weekend is the 10 year mark. Per the bid book, The OC would have been this Friday.....
> 
> No major fires, air is not so bad this week (compared to fourth of July week). Weather is PERFECT :lol:. Mid 80s to mid 90s. Gives you an idea as to how the weather will be these next two weeks.
> We have a excessive heat warning for inland valleys. possible summer t-storms in the mountain areas.
> ...


LOL. Since when is 90 and up acceptable weather? This is a heat wave and I would hope for a much milder time 10 years from now.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> ^^ Such a long build up isn't it? LA should change its plan just for a laugh and build everything new, as big and expensive as possible. It'll still have it all done with three years to spare. :lol:


There, you have hit it! The reason public sponsored Olympics fail. When you are playing with someone else's money anything is possible! In fact, it's not just possible and desirable, it's mandatory!


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

I liked the Piggyback Yards proposal, for the simple fact that it would be relegated to affordable housing, and that it would be of the LA River revitalization plan. But, the decontamination was going to be super expensive.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Kenni said:


> I liked the Piggyback Yards proposal, for the simple fact that it would be relegated to affordable housing, and that it would be of the LA River revitalization plan. But, the decontamination was going to be super expensive.


I'm not sure. Affordable housing built on decontaminated ground and then rented of sold by the city to poor people? Suppose after 6 months a 5 year old girl gets cancer. And then about 2/3 want their money back because the price has collapsed due to the scare.

And that's assuming it ISN'T really contaminated.....

The community would be surrounded by heavy and light industrial, a jail and some public projects housing. DT proper, the AD and Boyle Heights are mostly cut off by major highways or old-school auto repair shops.

I would sever this development cleanly from the Olympics and let private investors decide if they like the odds. I suspect that's what ultimately happened (or would have happened if Anschutz and Union Pacific didn't just want to be left alone and killed the deal).


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Knitemplar said:


> Well, technically, it is an OLYMPIC (in BOLD) and Paralympic (upper/lower) festival.
> 
> The only thing allowable, and I believe Paris 2024 is reviving them -- are arts and other cultural competitions which could comprise an Olympic Arts or Cultural Festival which every O host city does attempt to put on in some scale.



That will be good if Paris 2024 attempts a more ambitious cultural festival. Doing that will be better for them and other organizing committees instead of investing a lot of time and resources into the Paralympics, which didn't exist until rather recently. 

The 2028 Paralympics regrettably will probably end up with a lot of spectators dressed up as empty seats. If so, sorry to all the athletes who'd like some public support. But watching competition in the Para instead of the Olym loses something in translation. Comes a bit too close to what certain sports departments in public schools have been known to hand out. Otherwise designated as "participation trophies."

As for guessing what the weather will be like in July 2028, the weather for 2020 was something I didn't think much about until I saw news on the big heat wave now affecting not just LA but Tokyo too.

I wasn't aware the 1964 games had been held later in the year due to a concern about climatic conditions in Japan during the height of summer:


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

pesto said:


> I'm not sure. Affordable housing built on decontaminated ground and then rented of sold by the city to poor people? Suppose after 6 months a 5 year old girl gets cancer. And then about 2/3 want their money back because the price has collapsed due to the scare.
> 
> And that's assuming it ISN'T really contaminated.....
> 
> ...


"What if's" 

Decontamination of land is very common and mandated by the State. But it's really expensive, that's why gas station properties when they fold, you rarely see them become anything else. You see old gas stations just sitting there, or they become a new gas station.

The decontamination is monitored by the State, and tested over and over.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Kenni said:


> "What if's"
> 
> Decontamination of land is very common and mandated by the State. But it's really expensive, that's why gas station properties when they fold, you rarely see them become anything else. You see old gas stations just sitting there, or they become a new gas station.
> 
> The decontamination is monitored by the State, and tested over and over.


Yes, but places like Carson were going to be decontaminated but there was zero interest in building housing. Even offices finally got no takers so it was going to be parks and game day retail around the stadium. 

In any event, you can tell the jury that after I tell them about the chemicals on the land and show them pictures of my beautiful baby girl who got terminal cancer after we moved there and my 300 neighbors are getting sick constantly and can't sell their houses at any price .


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

californiadreams said:


> That will be good if Paris 2024 attempts a more ambitious cultural festival. Doing that will be better for them and other organizing committees instead of investing a lot of time and resources into the Paralympics, *which didn't exist until rather recently.*
> 
> The 2028 Paralympics regrettably will probably end up with a lot of spectators dressed up as empty seats. If so, sorry to all the athletes who'd like some public support. But watching competition in the Para instead of the Olym loses something in translation. Comes a bit too close to what certain sports departments in public schools have been known to hand out. *Otherwise designated as "participation trophies."*


Everytime I read one of your posts I'm more and more pleased you didn't enjoy London's Games. They really weren't for you.

The Paralympics have been going since 1960 (longer than the Super Bowl) and some of the best sport I saw in 2012 was from Para-athletes. You don't have to watch or spend your money on tickets - that's up to you - but don't then pretend you know what you're talking about. Participation trophies?! These are professional athletes doing nothing different from what Olympians are doing. And the Games have been very well attended when they've been properly publicised e.g. London sold 2.1m Paralympic tickets.

I don't see why Angelinos wouldn't follow suit. I'm also certain LA28 organisers aren't going to share your attitude. They'll see what recent hosts have done and want to emulate or better it...










_Para-cycling.....incredibly impressive seeing an athlete with one-leg racing at a speed most able-bodied athletes couldn't manage around a velodrome..._










_Canada winning wheelchair basketball Gold...one of the most brutal and competitive contests I saw in London at either the Olympics or Paralympics..._

Photos ©RobH


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Maybe Paralympics could be separated out and be subject to an independent bidding process at some other time and place. Then there would be more focus on these almost unbelievable accomplishments.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

It's not broken, it doesn't need fixing. Both do well off each other - the Paralympics gains from the profile of the Olympics and the organisers get to sell another couple of million tickets to events before the venues are taken out of 'Olympic mode' and return to whatever they were before. This is especially true for LA where the Games are using existing facilities - you're just adding to the already extensive profit and the city gets another fortnight of international exposure.

As usual, the only issue here is californiadreams'. I don't agree with him about loads of empty seats; in fact I'd be _massively_ surprised if LA28 bucks the trend of successful Paralympics we've seen this century.

And, far from separating, they're moving into closer cooperation... kay:



> *Top-tier Olympic partners to become sponsors of Paralympics from 2021*
> https://www.insidethegames.biz/arti...s-to-become-sponsors-of-paralympics-from-2021


Again, mutual benefit. The IPC gets a share in the Olympic sponsorship, and big sponsors like Coca Cola etc get another two weeks' exposure at an internal event which in terms of ticket sales is only behind the World Cup and the Olympics. It's smaller than the Olympics, sure, but it's no longer a misfit or an afterthought when put alongside its big brother. It's a very natural fit. Californiadreams needs to get with the times.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> It's not broken, it doesn't need fixing. Both do well off each other - the Paralympics gains from the profile of the Olympics and the organisers get to sell another couple of million tickets to events before the venues are taken out of 'Olympic mode' and return to whatever they were before. This is especially true for LA where the Games are using existing facilities - you're just adding to the already extensive profit and the city gets another fortnight of international exposure.
> 
> As usual, the only issue here is californiadreams'. I don't agree with him about loads of empty seats; in fact I'd be _massively_ surprised if LA28 bucks the trend of successful Paralympics we've seen this century.
> 
> ...


Maybe I'm confused. You seemed to think that the Paralympics are vastly popular and sell millions of tickets to enthusiastic crowds. If so, then they should be happy to go off and not have to share the spotlight with the Olympics. 

This would relieve the burden on the host city (which could be quite significant on a mid-sized bidder) AND allow for another worldwide marketing bonanza for the IOC.

Even more importantly, it would bring the para-athletes into the spotlight which is now dominated by the world finest basketball, soccer, track and field, tennis, etc., athletes. Without the burnout that comes with the end of the Olympics, these athletes would get an even better chances to get big media contracts and the attention of the world.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Why _should_ they separate though? Both events do well off each other and the Paralympics _does_ sell millions of tickets (I don't "seem to think that", it's a fact). Host cities and sponsors like things as they are - indeed, they want to integrate further as evidenced by recent agreements.

And for californiadreams, I'm asking why he thinks LA will _not_ be able to do what Sydney, London, Beijing and Rio did (and what Tokyo and Paris will surely do) and sell millions of tickets for these Games? Why will LA be an exception? Why does he think LA will be the city that takes the Paralympics back to where it was in the 80s?

Of course, the Paralympics requires the facilities and infrastructure of an Olympics to be the size it is - I'm not denying that it piggybacks off the Olympics to a large extent, and it certainly wouldn't be viable at the size it is if it was a standalone event. But as long as its win-win for both Games to be hosted together, gets extra income from the venues, extra exposure for the city, does it matter that one party gets more from the agreement than the other?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> Why _should_ they separate though? Both events do well off each other and the Paralympics _does_ sell millions of tickets (I don't "seem to think that", it's a fact). Host cities and sponsors like things as they are - indeed, they want to integrate further as evidenced by recent agreements.
> 
> And for californiadreams, I'm asking why he thinks LA will _not_ be able to do what Sydney, London, Beijing and Rio did (and what Tokyo and Paris will surely do) and sell millions of tickets for these Games? Why will LA be an exception? Why does he think LA will be the city that takes the Paralympics back to where it was in the 80s?
> 
> Of course, the Paralympics requires the facilities and infrastructure of an Olympics to be the size it is - I'm not denying that it *piggybacks off the Olympics *to a large extent, and it *certainly wouldn't be viable *at the size it is if it was a standalone event. But as long as its win-win for both Games to be hosted together, gets extra income from the venues, extra exposure for the city, does it matter that one party gets more from the agreement than the other?


Yes.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

3 years ago, LA hosted the largest Special Olympics World Games very successfully.

https://www.specialolympics.org/Games/Los_Angeles_2015.aspx 

I believe attendance records hit *35,923, 674!* So they will have no problem filling seats for Paralympics 2028; and if it's OK with the IOC, LA 2028 might even sell combo ticket packages of get Oly premium seats, finals, etc., you get a generous pkg of Para events as well!!


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> 3 years ago, LA hosted the largest Special Olympics World Games very successfully.
> 
> https://www.specialolympics.org/Games/Los_Angeles_2015.aspx
> 
> I believe attendance records hit *35,923, 674!* So they will have no problem filling seats for Paralympics 2028; and if it's OK with the IOC, LA 2028 might even sell combo ticket packages of get Oly premium seats, finals, etc., you get a generous pkg of Para events as well!!


I never think of these as being primarily sporting events. It's more an opportunity for the viewers to get a proper perspective on the world and to rededicate themselves to making it better.

There but for the Grace of God.....


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> I never think of these as being primarily sporting events. It's more an opportunity for the viewers to get a proper perspective on the world and to rededicate themselves to making it better.
> 
> There but for the Grace of God.....


That'll work, too.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

pesto said:


> Maybe Paralympics could be separated out and be subject to an independent bidding process at some other time and place. Then there would be more focus on these almost unbelievable accomplishments.


Unnecessary, and more costly. Another bidding process, venues.

As it stands, the same venues, volunteers and organization is used. It makes so much sense that even FIFA does something similar, the Confederations Cup is hosted by the World Cup host.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

Knitemplar said:


> 3 years ago, LA hosted the largest Special Olympics World Games very successfully.
> 
> https://www.specialolympics.org/Games/Los_Angeles_2015.aspx
> 
> I believe attendance records hit *35,923, 674!* So they will have no problem filling seats for Paralympics 2028; and if it's OK with the IOC, LA 2028 might even sell combo ticket packages of get Oly premium seats, finals, etc., you get a generous pkg of Para events as well!!


Yes! It was a spectacle. It was huge here in LA....like any sports event.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Kenni said:


> Unnecessary, and more costly. Another bidding process, venues.
> 
> As it stands, the same venues, volunteers and organization is used. It makes so much sense that even FIFA does something similar, the Confederations Cup is hosted by the World Cup host.


Well, not quite the same. The Paralymipcs (IPC) are for another market, another segment of the population, who would otherwise be totally ignored.

The Confederations Cup is primarily a test run for the bigger event, the following year -- just as any Olympics (and Paras) have a whole set of test events ("Cup-this; Cup-that) a year before the actual Games.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Kenni said:


> Unnecessary, and more costly. Another bidding process, venues.
> 
> As it stands, the same venues, volunteers and organization is used. It makes so much sense that even FIFA does something similar, the Confederations Cup is hosted by the World Cup host.


Another bidding process costs the IOC almost nothing. 

The key point here is that the Paralympics is put into a bidding package with the Olympics. Bidders have no options; if you want the one, you have to take the other. We can draw our own conclusions as to why this is done but it is doubtful that the Paralympics drives much of the Olympics revenues.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> The Paralympics have been going since 1960 (longer than the Super Bowl) and some of the best sport I saw in 2012 was from Para-athletes. You don't have to watch or spend your money on tickets - that's up to you - but don't then pretend you know what you're talking about. Participation trophies?! These are professional athletes doing nothing different from what Olympians are doing. And the Games have been very well attended when they've been properly publicised e.g. London sold 2.1m Paralympic tickets.
> 
> I don't see why Angelinos wouldn't follow suit. I'm also certain LA28 organisers aren't going to share your attitude. They'll see what recent hosts have done and want to emulate or better it...


I'll be more than glad and relieved if I'm wrong. 

But I still can't get over how one of last year's Rams game at the Coliseum was nationally notorious for having some of the sparsest attendance in NFL history. Although an 49ers game held around the same time in Santa Clara, in the south bay of the San Francisco area, was pretty bad too.

There is admittedly some politics involved in this, about NFL players kneeling before games begin. But both Rams and Raiders games at the Coliseum several years ago were also not known as exactly SRO affairs.

The former San Diego Chargers - judged as carpet baggers in LA - relocated last year to a soccer stadium south of downtown LA, and which will be hosting some 2028 events, is being mocked (and rightly so) by San Diegans for consistently poor attendance.

However, the Dodgers have been at the top of the attendance list in Major League Baseball, and the LA area does have USC and UCLA college football.

I remember during some of the earlier days of the 2012 games there was talk about so-so attendance. That definitely was a problem during the 2016 games.

Nothing kills an atmosphere more than when many spectators in a stadium - or a theater, etc, too - are dressed up as empty seats.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

californiadreams said:


> Nothing kills an atmosphere more than when many spectators in a stadium - or a theater, etc, too - are dressed up as empty seats.


I believe the Paras are staged in the smaller arenas, and if they are held in the larger ones, the seating is scaled down -- i.e., as in the big picture of LA 2015, whole sections are cordoned off. Or, taking a page from the Trump Swamp Fakery primer, dim the lights around those empty areas. There are all these tricks. :wink2:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

A discussion of the Paralympics really belongs in another thread because the economics and politics are a long, messy story in Olympic history. 

Very briefly, they are there because of pressure from the physically challenged advocacy groups (the mentally challenged go to the Special Olympics).


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> I'll be more than glad and relieved if I'm wrong.
> 
> But I still can't get over how one of last year's Rams game at the Coliseum was nationally notorious for having some of the sparsest attendance in NFL history. Although an 49ers game held around the same time in Santa Clara, in the south bay of the San Francisco area, was pretty bad too.
> 
> ...


Well, for many events attendance is going to be terrible, especially at the Paralympics (or the Special Olympics for that matter). And we should also remember that tickets are routinely given away for free for these events.

But I think it is understood that these provide an opportunity for special groups to get involved in activities. It is essentially a nonprofit activity, not work which funds other activities the way the Olympics or World Cup do.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> Well, for many events attendance is going to be terrible, especially at the Paralympics (or the Special Olympics for that matter).



Guinness lists the 1996 games as having the largest attendance of any Olympics:




> http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/greatest-attendance-at-olympic-games
> 
> Largest attendance at an Olympic Games
> 
> ...



As I was watching around 2:33, I wonder if 2028 is going to honor past games, particularly 1996?








The Olympics movement in 2018, and the world's political scene, have changed so much since the early 1990s, and even since then, that scenes of people in various cities whooping and hollering about winning a games comes off as almost naive and quaint.

16:03 is interesting in today's times, with financing and budgets for Olympics off the scale.

17:30 gives an overview of what happened over 20 years ago. 1996 did have a formal, permanent indoor swimming pool building, 18.09, which 1984 lacked. 

Unlike LA in 1984, Atlanta in 1996 did have a transit system: 20:58

Negative media coverage, 22:13, is going to be expressed with way more of a "show me the money" snicker by the international media for any event held in the US. I wonder how much of the media are going to be gunning for LA 2028?

24:08: Not desirable for a games.

I didn't realize additional acts of terrorism, 28:34, occurred in 1996. I thought the only incident occurred in the games' official park.

41:36 shows the post-1996 condition of Olympics sites. Way better than 2016. As for any disappointment, it's offset by what existed before the games, 40:23.

43:01: I didn't know Mercedes Benz and Porsche have their US headquarters in Atlanta. By contrast, Toyota and Nissan have both moved their US front offices out of LA. 

44:17 best sums up my overall impression of the last summer Olympics held in the US.

I hope 2028 isn't going to end up a letdown. Or the opposite of "third time is a charm." However, with so many cross winds in the world today, I don't know if that's possible.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> Guinness lists the 1996 games as having the largest attendance of any Olympics:


As usual, you wander off onto subjects that are really about other Olympics, with an added "I hope this doesn't happen in LA". Could you put them in the general Olympics thread instead?

As a brief comment "sold" can include tickets that are "purchased" by sponsors as part of their sponsorship fees; they have no choice but to take them. Hopefully they are used, but often given or thrown away. In any event, even when ticket sales are good, many events will get very minimal attendance.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> As a brief comment "sold" can include tickets that are "purchased" by sponsors as part of their sponsorship fees; they have no choice but to take them. Hopefully they are used, but often given or thrown away. In any event, even when ticket sales are good, many events will get very minimal attendance.


No. I don't believe "all-pass" or "box tickets" that are thrown into Sponsors' packages are counted in the "tickets sold" category. The Ticketing Department only counts individual orders pre-sold by mail-order and at the venue box-offices. The "package tickets" given to Sponsors are handled by the Olympic Family Department, and as of 1996, even the TOP sponsors (about a dozen of them) only got around 20 tickets for semi-final events and about 16 for some of the gold-medal events. 

BTW, and "_I hope this doesn't happen in LA_" :nuts: but Atlanta 1996 was also the *first* Olympic Games to use the internet as a ticket-ordering method.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> No. I don't believe "all-pass" or "box tickets" that are thrown into Sponsors' packages are counted in the "tickets sold" category. The Ticketing Department only counts individual orders pre-sold by mail-order and at the venue box-offices. The "package tickets" given to Sponsors are handled by the Olympic Family Department, and as of 1996, even the TOP sponsors (about a dozen of them) only got around 20 tickets for semi-final events and about 16 for some of the gold-medal events.
> 
> BTW, and "_I hope this doesn't happen in LA_" :nuts: but Atlanta 1996 was also the *first* Olympic Games to use the internet as a ticket-ordering method.


Again this is off subject and belongs in a general Olympics discussion. 

Finals are not the issue; the issue is first round or sports with small followings (likewise in Para and Special Olympics). When I worked for a large sponsor they got 20k early round tickets with orders to get butts in the seats. This got passed down to staff to get it done. They were absolutely free and you had to pressure people to take them. The main point was to show people in the seats.

Similar shenanigans at the WC I worked.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

californiadreams said:


> As I was watching around 2:33, I wonder if 2028 is going to honor past games, particularly 1996?


Probably, 2 things:

1. The 2028 Torch relay will either begin in (a) Atlanta (as the place where the last Summer Games were hosted on US soil); or (b) in Salt Lake City (technically, the _last_ Olympic Games held in the US); and then, will make a major stop in Atlanta (where, right now, the largest Summer Olympic torch collection in the US is on display); and 

2. at the 2028 Opening Ceremony, Atlanta will be mentioned when they mention/honor/go down the list of past Olympic hosts.

The bigger question is: will they allow Bruce/Caitlin Jenner in any of the Official Protocol functions (or will s/he be relegated to a Lance Armstrong/Marion Jones (i.e., "Loser/fallen hero/oine") category? :nuts:


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> Again this is off subject and belongs in a general Olympics discussion.
> 
> .


Not really, These are all related to the NEXT Summer Games slated in the USA -- so they ALL connect. Stop being so overly FUSSY!! :bash:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> with an added "I hope this doesn't happen in LA".


Because I don't want this to be the official anthem of the 34th Olympiad of the modern era: 










I'd rather have something like this, from the 23rd Olympiad of the modern era:








These are the details that can make a difference in the overall tone of a games. 

I post here with the hope that over the next 10 years, people involved in the 2028 committee somehow wander into this thread and get some ideas about what helps or hurts an Olympics.

I'm already suspicious that the people managing the 2020 games, who I hoped would return to some of the dignity and basic charm of the 1964 games, aren't going to be able to be way above and beyond 2016 and 2012, etc.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Knitemplar said:


> Probably, 2 things:
> The bigger question is: will they allow Bruce/Caitlin Jenner in any of the Official Protocol functions (or will s/he be relegated to a Lance Armstrong/Marion Jones (i.e., "Loser/fallen hero/oine") category? :nuts:


I saw some of the cultural and political trends at the Winter games a few months ago in Korea and humorous or sarcastic predictions today may very well turn out accurate in the future. 

By the way, Jenner is based in Los Angeles, is one of the major Olympic stars of the past, and will probably affect the 2028 games. The LA organizing committee very likely will be in contact with Jenner. So 2028 will be influenced by this:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> Probably, 2 things:
> 
> 1. The 2028 Torch relay will either begin in (a) Atlanta (as the place where the last Summer Games were hosted on US soil); or (b) in Salt Lake City (technically, the _last_ Olympic Games held in the US); and then, will make a major stop in Atlanta (where, right now, the largest Summer Olympic torch collection in the US is on display); and
> 
> ...


1. Why not begin in LA since the Special Olympics were just held there in 2015? You can just pick up the torch and put it back down.

2. Bruce/Caitlin Jenner is bigger question than what? :lol:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> Because I don't want this to be the official anthem of the 34th Olympiad of the modern era:
> 
> *
> I'd rather have something like this, from the 23rd Olympiad of the modern era:
> ...


In my view, John Williams' Fanfare drips pomposity. It is a relic of a dead era. Fits well with Baron this and Lord that and their smug self-assurance.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> 1. Why not begin in LA since the Special Olympics were just held there in 2015? You can just pick up the torch and put it back down.


Because the tradition is to start the new Relay from the last place where the legitimate Oly Games were held -- NOT the pseudo-Oly Games like the Special Olympics. 

1984 - began in NYC (representing NY State (since it was too much bother to start it in Lake Placid.)
1996 - began at the Coliseum in LA; ended in Atlanta
2002 - began @ Centennial Park in Atlanta; ended @ Rice-Eccles in SLC.

So, going by that, if the USOC has anything to say about it, 2028 could begin in Salt Lake instead (and probably as a boost to SLC's 2030 bid), head east and back again in the north side of the country, down the west coast, ending in LA. 



> 2. Bruce/Caitlin Jenner is bigger question than what? :lol:


Than what do you think? Did JR or OJ kill Nicole Brown Simpson?? :nuts:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> In my view, John Williams' Fanfare drips pomposity. It is a relic of a dead era. Fits well with Baron this and Lord that and their smug self-assurance.


I know what you mean. Which is why for both cultural and political reasons, other aspects of pop culture, such as "Hollywood" and the Academy Awards, and NFL football, are facing a shaky future.

An annual event tied to a major industry in LA was once more popular and admired locally and nationally than it is today. Although it still generates some hype, it has lost a lot of its original status and popularity.

American football, due in part to politics and a growing alarm among parents about head injuries suffered by kids playing US football instead of FIFA football, is becoming less popular. It's less the "in" thing in 2018 than in the past. 

The question is how will Stan Kroenke's multi-billion dollar investment in Inglewood - which will play host to parts of the 2028 games - be affected by this?

This is what more people are into nowadays. Look at the comments posted to Youtube under this video. "I love it (tears, tears)!" 









In turn, are they the reason more and more people's reaction towards movies and Oscar, and more and more people's reaction towards US football versus soccer, becoming different and changing?

This is why I have big questions about what 2028 (and other Olympics) - not to mention the Rams/Chargers stadium - will end up facing in the future.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> Because the tradition is to start the new Relay from the last place where the legitimate Oly Games were held -- NOT the pseudo-Oly Games like the Special Olympics.
> 
> 1984 - began in NYC (representing NY State (since it was too much bother to start it in Lake Placid.)
> 1996 - began at the Coliseum in LA; ended in Atlanta
> ...


That was my point: since when do the Winter Games count as legitimate Olympic games? The only ones that count are the summer games, and only a small percentage of those even vaguely resemble combat skills. The rest can better be called the "Modern Grab Bag Games".


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

californiadreams said:


> By the way, Jenner is based in Los Angeles, is one of the major Olympic stars of the past, and will probably affect the 2028 games. The LA organizing committee very likely will be in contact with Jenner. So 2028 will be influenced by this:


And you KNOW this, because? Are you in the inner sanctum of policy and decision-making of LA 2028? 

Funny, huh -- the IOC has said nothing about a transgender person like Jenner; and notice that they still want to chromosome-test Semenya. And you think that Jenner will be a major player for LA 2028? Huh. hno:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Knitemplar said:


> And you KNOW this, because? Are you in the inner sanctum of policy and decision-making of LA 2028?
> 
> Funny, huh -- the IOC has said nothing about a transgender person like Jenner; and notice that they still want to chromosome-test Semenya. And you think that Jenner will be a major player for LA 2028? Huh. hno:



I don't mind if I'm wrong. 

However, I see the cultural, political trends out there and, if anything, I may be understating what likely will happen in the future.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

/\/\ That was 2 years ago. Two Olympics have already come and gone (Rio and Korea) and I don't think any of that happened; or made much of an impact on things, have they? 

If LA28 wanted to highlight Jenner in ANY WAY, they would already have invited him/her to their crucial marketing events, say the bid to win the Games, where they feature the best and brightest, and most shining examples of the Olympic prowess of the country. They would've made him/her an "ambassadrix" of some sort. But they HAVE NOT.

Jenner's presence in anything Olympic will be *too distracting*. It will turn the event into about him/her, rather than about the event -- unless it's an event all about "transgender" medallists (and how many are there of those?). 

Where are the former East Germans, like Kornelia Ender, for example, whom the old GDR turned into amazons with a lot of cancerous ailments? You don't see the German Olympic Committee parading them around in order to win future Games, do you?

So I'd say that Jenner (has he even actually gone through the snip-snip procedure?) better not hold its breath getting an invitation to any official, premium event sponsored by LA 2028. It's not about the "odd" ex-athletes who decide to tinker with what nature has decided for them. It's about the other 99.5% who have stayed true to themselves and left well enough alone. 

Just saying . . .


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> I don't mind if I'm wrong.
> 
> However, I see the cultural, political trends out there and, if anything, I may be understating what likely will happen in the future.


This DOES NOT BELONG in the LA 2028 thread. Seriously songs, ceremonies, mascots and petty miscellaneous staging issues from other years DO NOT BELONG here. Transgender issues do not belong here. They are all wonderful topics for discussion, but on a general thread. You can use an existing one or start your own.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Knitemplar said:


> Jenner's presence in anything Olympic will be *too distracting*. It will turn the event into about him/her, rather than about the event -- unless it's an event all about "transgender" medallists (and how many are there of those?).



You're correct. But the amount of politicization - sometimes in a way known as "virtue signaling" - of everyone and everything, including things like the Olympics and NFL, is stretching boundaries beyond recognition.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> Seriously songs, ceremonies, mascots and petty miscellaneous staging issues from other years DO NOT BELONG here.


Huh? 

That's the reverse of my saying the following does belong here because it involves people in the UK, and people in London hosted the Olympics in 2012:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> Huh?
> 
> That's the reverse of my saying the following does belong here because it involves people in the UK, and people in London hosted the Olympics in 2012:
> 
> ...


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> It's just a matter of courtesy.



It's not all that courteous to keep acting like the guy in that video posted above.

My interest in the Olympics is admittedly higher right now because of 2028. That's because it involves a place closer to where I live than a city thousands of miles away, either a Paris or Tokyo. 

Over the next 10 years, seeing what's going in those two places, along with what has come before them, will give a better sense of what 2028 may or may not be like.

If I study things like my personal health, I don't say that the physical condition of other people should be ignored or aren't relevant because they're not me. Or because they're taller or shorter than I am. Or because they're male or not. Or because they're American or not. 

The IOC and Tokyo 2020 committee don't appear to have invested their time and money in the following. But it does raise the question of how much of things like it should or shouldn't be emulated by the people managing 2024 and 2028 or based in Paris and LA:


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

/\/\ - I guess . . . clever idea, BUT

1. is that for Sunni, Shia or Wahabbi moslems? (They will fight you know that.)

2. Where's the women's and transgenders' sections? (I hope they're having a Saudi woman drive that thing!) 

3. And to be fair, where is the mobile synagogue??


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Knitemplar said:


> 3. And to be fair, where is the mobile synagogue??


To be even fairer, there needs to be one for atheists. Maybe one for New Ageists too.

Today is the 86th year since the start of the 1932 games:






 

In 2018, I'm worried the current caretakers of the Coliseum may not do the best things possible. For instance, although it would have been admittedly way more costly and difficult for USC, the screen on the west side would have looked slicker if it mirrored the curve of the stadium. It instead looks like a big sign sitting outside of a Ralphs or Walmart. Oh, well, can't have everything:


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

californiadreams said:


> To be even fairer, there needs to be one for atheists. Maybe one for New Ageists too.
> ]


Don't forget the Druids/Tree-huggers and Satanists, too.


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## LosAngelesSportsFan (Oct 20, 2004)

californiadreams said:


> I'll be more than glad and relieved if I'm wrong.
> 
> But I still can't get over how one of last year's Rams game at the Coliseum was nationally notorious for having some of the sparsest attendance in NFL history. Although an 49ers game held around the same time in Santa Clara, in the south bay of the San Francisco area, was pretty bad too.
> 
> ...


The Rams drew 83,000 a game first season, but capped their ticket sales to 68,000 a game for the second season. Too many logistical issues. Thats in line with the entire leagues attendance. Only reason it looks sparse is because the Coliseum holds 93000


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

Local Drone Videographer (and SSC poster!) John Kay has a new video up showing the latest updates to the LA Coliseum, which will host Athletics and Ceremonies in 2028:


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## koolicon (Oct 25, 2011)

Knitemplar said:


> And you KNOW this, because? Are you in the inner sanctum of policy and decision-making of LA 2028?
> 
> Funny, huh -- the IOC has said nothing about a transgender person like Jenner; and notice that they still want to chromosome-test Semenya. And you think that Jenner will be a major player for LA 2028? Huh. hno:


Jenner is one of the most prominent Olympic Gold medalist in US history, I am sure she will be one of torch bearers in 2028. I do feel Micheal Phelps will light the cordon though.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

koolicon said:


> Jenner is one of the most prominent Olympic Gold medalist in US history, .


One of about 750 or so . . .

In 2009, the 25th anniversary of LA 1984 was celebrated (see clip). I was at that event. It's not shown on that clip but before the Fireworks show, they did someting which David Wolper wanted to do in the actual 1984 Closing -- which was bring as many US gold medalists as those who could make it, together -- for one last, massive commemoration. About 35 of the greatest living US Summer gold Olympians showed up (Michael Johnson, Evelyn Ashford, Janet Jones, the gymnasts, etc., etc., even Greg Louganis who did not make a big deal of his being "gay," etc.)-- the thing just seemed to go on forever -- and your favorite, Bruce Jenner, wasn't among those. I think the Kardashians must've been giving him dress-up or "walking in high heels" lessons that evening. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Azg43ce0-Rs 

(As an aside, Wolper and his team dropped the idea for the actual Closing in 1984 because the execution was very tedious.) 

Anyway, so much for your claim that "Jenner" is ". . . one of the most prominent Olympic gold medallists in US history." B-CJ is singled out for what he did AFTERWARDS -- not while he was a male in winning the 1976 Decathlon. I think the Olympic people do not feel duty-bound to honor someone OUTSIDE of what they did _after_ their Olympic glory days -- specially because it's a very charged and controversial one.


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## en1044 (May 4, 2008)

Knitemplar said:


> I think the Kardashians must've been giving him dress-up or "walking in high heels" lessons that evening.


Get out of here.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

en1044 said:


> Get out of here.


LOL!!


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

And we haven't even mentioned the US Olympic winners that haven't happened yet.

And who knows, LeBron is in LA now and may have won two more gold medals by then. He might even date a Kardashian. Or change sexes. :lol:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

^ I went through moments of this video and didn't realize the facade of the peristyle side of the Coliseum originally was just plain concrete. However, I do recall reading a reporter from the 1930s saying the stadium he visited in Berlin for the 1936 games was fancier because it was covered in marble or travertine. 

I hope that over the next several years, USC upgrades the front plaza. The two concrete pylons on either side of the entry gate have always made me think of a last-minute job supervised by Home Depot. With the two globe light fixtures on the top looking like something ordered from an online do-it-yourself catalog.

But it's a good thing the two large message boards on top of the colonnade have been removed. They were already looking pretty worn out about 10 years after 1984. The host of the video refers to the upcoming 1996 games in Atlanta, so the filming must have occurred over 20 years ago.

I still think of the LA Coliseum as one of the few significant, meaningful landmarks of the modern Olympics. However, 2028 does deserve a stadium with more than two plain concrete pylons (you can even see the sonotube markings in the concrete) and generic light fixtures.


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## Luke09 (Jul 25, 2016)

It would be kinda cool to see the Hollywood sign temporarily replaced by the Olympic's logo, but probably something that's not in the budget.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

WesTexas said:


> What are they basing this off of? LA isn't even a top sports city in the USA.


If you're basing a list off of passionate fanbases then that's one thing (debatable but OK) however it's hard to deny the sporting infrastructure and legacy in the LA Metro area:

- 10 franchises across all major pro sports leagues (_including MLS_)

- The only city to ever have a local "sports equinox" where a local team was playing in the NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL and MLS all in one day.

- Two big time Division 1 FBS college programs each with a blue-blood legacy (USC in football, UCLA in basketball)

- Soon to be one of only 3 cities in the WORLD to have hosted the Summer Olympics three times

- Site of the oldest and most prestigious college football game and venue, the Rose Bowl

- Home of the 1st (_or 2nd I guess_) most storied franchise in basketball, the Lakers

- Site of the first Super Bowl

- Home to more Olympians than any other city on Earth

- Has the highest attendance average in MLB and site of the largest baseball crowd in MLB history (100,000 plus at the Coliseum in 2008)

etc. etc.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

aquamaroon said:


> - Home to more Olympians than any other city on Earth


Meanwhile, I thought this was interesting. Not OT too since it mentions "Los Angeles." LOL.

Also, look at what London's mayor wants to claim for his city.

http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/london-olympics-bid-2036

_



*London eyes 2036 Olympics bid*

Posted: February 28 2019

*UK Sport, the government agency responsible for investing in Olympic and Paralympic sport, has revealed an ambitious plan to bring the Olympic Games back to London as early as 2036.*

A potential bid for the quadrennial multi-sport event already has the backing of the Mayor of London, while the International Olympic Committee (IOC) has said it would not be too soon for the Olympics to return to the English capital, which last hosted the Games in 2012.

Plans to host the Games for a fourth time – London also staged the event in 1908 and 1948 – are part of a wider target to surpass the United States at the top of the Olympics medal table after Team GB finished runner-up at Rio 2016.

The London 2012 Olympics were well received by the British public and the event was widely regarded to be a success. The IOC, which has struggled to attract host city bids for its events in recent years, says it is open to the prospect of the Games returning to the UK in 2036.

A potential bid, which would have to be put forward by the British Olympic Association (BOA), would tie in with *Mayor of London Sadiq Khan’s aim to make London the sporting capital of the world*.

“There is no reason why London can’t bid,” an IOC spokesperson told the Standard. “*There was Los Angeles in 1984 and again in 2028,* then Beijing for 2008 and again for the Winter Olympics 2022. We’re always pleased when cities bid for the Games and particularly London, with its great legacy. I’m sure people in London would relish it.”

Click to expand...

_


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Already being discussed in the 2032 thread, where it has more relevance. 

More on topic:


> *Los Angeles 2028 rowing events may be switched to 1932 Olympic venue in Long Beach*
> 
> The rowing competition at the 2028 Olympic and Paralympic Games in Los Angeles may be switched to the Long Beach Marine Stadium, which hosted the sport at the 1932 Games in the Californian city.


https://www.insidethegames.biz/arti...-switched-to-1932-olympic-venue-in-long-beach


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

^ A lot of the sheen has worn off the IOC and its Olympics IMHO due to a combination of changing culture, politics, medicine. 

The IOC is reportedly going to allow non-surgically altered transgender people to compete in whichever sex group they identify with. 

We have that to look forward to in 2028. Lucky us.

I do think rotating the Summer games among fewer major international cities makes sense at this late date. So if LA can host them again after 40 years, London being a host again in 2032, after 20 years, is not necessarily any worse than Beijing being practically back-to-back between its summer and winter games.

Better a London 2032 than a Rio 2032.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> ^ A lot of the sheen has worn off the IOC and its Olympics IMHO due to a combination of changing culture, politics, medicine.
> 
> The IOC is reportedly going to allow non-surgically altered transgender people to compete in whichever sex group they identify with.
> 
> ...


This makes some sense. But the problem is that it tends to freeze reality as it was in the past, which is the most certain way of killing your business. Fortunately, the IOC (and every other well-run organization) understands the 19th century is over.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-urban-games-la-street-festival-20190304-story.html

Budapest’s loss in El Segundo’s gain as the WUG's skip town. :lol:

Or is this just the first step in LA’s collapsing house of Olympic cards? Maybe Kroenke is about to cancel Inglewood and move tearfully back to St. Loo?

Btw, Dr. S-S was rumored to be buying various LA teams but never quite stepped up. He finally bought the LA Times as a consolation prize and continues to have spats with medical partners, investors, etc.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

/\/\ That Dr. S-S seems to be a rogue/renegade "organizer" working outside of the Framework of LA 2028, the USOC, let alone LA City Hall. That's why he's actually staging his "LA Festival" in El Segundo! :nuts: 

Budapest was lucky to get the crumbs from "LA."


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> /\/\ That Dr. S-S seems to be a rogue/renegade "organizer" working outside of the Framework of LA 2028, the USOC, let alone LA City Hall. That's why he's actually staging his "LA Festival" in El Segundo! :nuts:
> 
> Budapest was lucky to get the crumbs from "LA."


El Segundo is the same as LA; just like Inglewood, Manhattan Beach, SaMo, etc.

The real motivator here is the 3-on-3 hoops which is believed to have some serious monetary potential for broadcast since it can attract former pro and college stars. Asia and the US are the target markets. Everything else is fun but with less money potential. Of course, things like dancing and BMX have their niches.

The Lausanne crowd are hangers on hoping to somehow justify their existence for a bit longer. It is VERY clear they are being escorted to the door.


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## Sportsfan (Jul 26, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> Meanwhile, I thought this was interesting. Not OT too since it mentions "Los Angeles." LOL.
> 
> Also, look at what London's mayor wants to claim for his city.
> 
> http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/london-olympics-bid-2036


OK, first of all, they're dreaming if they ever think that Team GB will ever top the medal table. It's not even aspirational, it's just dumb. And of course the money-***** IOC would coo: "of course, you can bid any time you want" - That's what the IOC do. The more bidders, the more money and exposure they get.


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## Sportsfan (Jul 26, 2009)

RobH said:


> Already being discussed in the 2032 thread, where it has more relevance.
> 
> More on topic:
> 
> ...


Ridiculous. An international standard venue for rowing MUST allow for a 2000-metre course. Compromising on that is unfair to the rowers and the fans and the sport itself. However, for Canoe/Kayak Sprint events, they only need a 1000-metre course which is doable at Long Beach, so that way it's only the Rowers who have to hike out to Lake Perris. There has been a precedent - Barcelona '92 had separate venues for Rowing (Lake Banyoles) and Canoe/Kayak Sprint (Casteldefels).


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Sportsfan said:


> Ridiculous. An international standard venue for rowing MUST allow for a 2000-metre course. Compromising on that is unfair to the rowers and the fans and the sport itself. However, for Canoe/Kayak Sprint events, they only need a 1000-metre course which is doable at Long Beach, so that way it's only the Rowers who have to hike out to Lake Perris. There has been a precedent - Barcelona '92 had separate venues for Rowing (Lake Banyoles) and Canoe/Kayak Sprint (Casteldefels).


I agree. Well, right now, Canoe/Kayak is set for the Sepulveda Basin park where the original 1984 plans called for the full 2K rowing course to be built there. With LA 2028 budget being bigger, and if the IOC pushes Salt Lake 2026, then maybe LA 2028 can squeeze additional funds from the IOC to finally create that full 2K course in Sepulveda -- which is just 20 mins up the 405 F-way from the UCLA Atheltes' Village. Actually, USC, UCLA and Pepperdine should also push for that new reservoir as it will help their rowing programs very much.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

aquamaroon said:


> If you're basing a list off of passionate fanbases then that's one thing (debatable but OK) however it's hard to deny the sporting infrastructure and legacy in the LA Metro area:
> 
> - 10 franchises across all major pro sports leagues (_including MLS_)
> 
> ...


Looks like the City of LA PR Dept. is working overtime.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-los-angeles-sports-capital-20190306-story.html

On Big Bang Theory they said that the universe doesn’t have a center, and they work at Caltech so they must know. But maybe the sports universe is one of those alternative universes with quantum stuff and weird rules. :lol:

In any event, leaving aside the hyperbole, a summary of some major events already lined-up for LA in the coming decade. Hopefully, some World Series, NBA Finals, Stanley Cups, NFC/AFC Finals and such as well.

Please think of this as entertainment and not a call for battle. :lol:


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## Reggy709 (Mar 11, 2019)

Waiting for these games so much!


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Reggy709 said:


> Waiting for these games so much!


Put the time to good use! In the 9 years could get a college and graduate degree in, say, business management, computer science or a dozen other professions and be rich and famous by then. Or become fluent in Chinese and an excellent piano layer.

Or you could smoke dope and watch Oprah. 

Statistically, the latter is about 100 times as likely. :lol:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> I agree. Well, right now, Canoe/Kayak is set for the Sepulveda Basin park where the original 1984 plans called for the full 2K rowing course to be built there. With LA 2028 budget being bigger, and if the IOC pushes Salt Lake 2026, then maybe LA 2028 can squeeze additional funds from the IOC to finally create that full 2K course in Sepulveda -- which is just 20 mins up the 405 F-way from the UCLA Atheltes' Village. Actually, USC, UCLA and Pepperdine should also push for that new reservoir as it will help their rowing programs very much.


https://abc7news.com/actresses-ceos-charged-in-alleged-college-admissions-scam/5186103/

This is strangely sort of on-topic since it deals with USC, rowing and women's athletics.

USC has just fired it's women's athletics director and rowing coach. As part of a nationwide sting on college bribery, the mother of two girls who got into USC by claiming they were rowers and paying big bribes, has been arrested. Since this is LA, their mother was of course a well-known actress.

Also tells you a lot about how much demand there is to get into USC and UCLA (Stanford and Yale as well, along with several others).


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> https://abc7news.com/actresses-ceos-charged-in-alleged-college-admissions-scam/5186103/
> 
> This is strangely sort of on-topic since it deals with USC, rowing and women's athletics.
> 
> ...


The whole matter is sickening, i.e., from those who play by the rules and those who have much less but bust their butts to be the best they can be under the most meager of circumstances while mediocre wonks breeze in because of $$. I know it's the age-old adage that money talks and can get things done; but it is surely disheartening for those who try to advance themselves the honest but good, old-fashioned way! 

The sentence I would pass to these transgressors is to have them set up scholarships to help the less advantaged but truly deserving students to get in. I think that might be a good, win-win situation for everyone.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> The whole matter is sickening, i.e., from those who play by the rules and those who have much less but bust their butts to be the best they can be under the most meager of circumstances while mediocre wonks breeze in because of $$. I know it's the age-old adage that money talks and can get things done; but it is surely disheartening for those who try to advance themselves the honest but good, old-fashioned way!
> 
> The sentence I would pass to these transgressors is to have them set up scholarships to help the less advantaged but truly deserving students to get in. I think that might be a good, win-win situation for everyone.


Lack of money is not what keeps you from getting into top quality private schools; the top schools typically provide money as needed for those who are otherwise qualified. 

As such, those being "injured" here are typically not some "poor genius" but the top kids at the best prep schools who had money and great grades but had to settle for some lesser school because of the bribes. In either case the "injured" party would end up going to, say, Yale or Duke or Chicago, etc., if he didn't get into Stanford due to bribery keeping him out.

But the primary offense is being committed against the regents of the school. They hire people to let in students based on one criteria; instead they took money to let them in in disregard of their directions. Same idea as taking bribes for loans, buying Tesla's, tickets to games, etc.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> Lack of money is not what keeps you from getting into top quality private schools; the top schools typically provide money as needed for those who are otherwise qualified.
> 
> As such, those being "injured" here are typically not some "poor genius" but the top kids at the best prep schools who had money and great grades but had to settle for some lesser school because of the bribes. In either case the "injured" party would end up going to, say, Yale or Duke or Chicago, etc., if he didn't get into Stanford due to bribery keeping him out.
> 
> But the primary offense is being committed against the regents of the school. They hire people to let in students based on one criteria; instead they took money to let them in in disregard of their directions. Same idea as taking bribes for loans, buying Tesla's, tickets to games, etc.


Sorry, I didn't go to any of the top schools. My family could not afford it. So I am not wise to the ways of what goes on in the admission games of these institutions.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> Sorry, I didn't go to any of the top schools. My family could not afford it. So I am not wise to the ways of what goes on in the admission games of these institutions.


Me either; that was my point. The private schools I went to were practically free (about 90 percent scholarship; 10 percent loans) since we were dirt poor. 

The problem here is employees being bribed so the injury is to the INSTITUTION, which ended up with relatively unqualified students rather than the ones that their boards and administration were attempting to attract. The rejected kids just took their brains and earning power to some other roughly equal quality school and now are alumni of that school.

But, of course, the gossip and chatter on the internet finds more mileage from claiming that it's the rich taking advantage of the poor. That's why college admissions and pretty much any decision requiring judgment is NOT made by polling the internet. :lol:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

A similar comment to the one I made above. One of the USC "rowers" was on Rick Caruso's yacht in the Bahamas this week since she is a friend of his daughter. This is a problem because Caruso in Chairman of the Board of Trustees of USC. His comment:

"The charges filed today against employees of USC are disturbing and the alleged activity is absolutely wrong. I am saddened that these people would abuse their positions of trust and, as the government has alleged, victimize USC in the process. There is no option other than zero tolerance for this type of behavior. As a result, USC has fired the alleged wrongdoers."

Caruso was also involved with the LA Olympics, but of course he is one of the aggrieved parties here, not one of the offenders.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> The problem here is employees being bribed so the injury is to the INSTITUTION.


Makes me think of what various current ongoing trends, including those involving greedy elite insiders, pushy sports federations and ridiculous international politics, are doing to the IOC and image of the Olympics.

As for new sports facilities in LA and elsewhere, the ante is being upped. Even a new stadium in Morocco is no slouch in "show me" architecture. 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/8723364/new-stadiums-ac-milan-barcelona-everton-roma-chelsea/

But I have a hunch new facilities in Tokyo and LA, by next year and in 2028, will have features that treat a sense of tradition of the Olympics like a big snore. 

Cauldrons looking like giant urinals, anyone? 

Actually, the designers of the Tokyo stadium didn't even originally include plans for one of those when their blueprints first came out. 

So passe and old school anyway. 

Maybe a giant statue of some anime character next to a barbecue pit for summer 2020?

Maybe a memorial in honor of weeding out college admission fraud and promoting gender studies next to a bic-sized lighter thingamajig as a salute to reduced carbon imprint for summer 2028?

The world anxiously awaits.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

californiadreams said:


> Actually, the designers of the Tokyo stadium didn't even originally include plans for one of those when their blueprints first came out.


I think becuz most of the interior cladding of the new Tokyo O Stadium will be of wood; and it looks even more enclosed than either Beijing or London -- AND I can imagine Tokyo Prefecture's Fire Codes, it will be a very small cauldron in the middle of the field -- and then probably moved outside. The m.o. will be something like London's but becuz of the Fire laws, I think it won't be a very big or bombastic Lighting ceremony. But the Japanese are traditionalists, so they will have that Lighting ceremony even if it's going to be very simple.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> Makes me think of what various current ongoing trends, including those involving greedy elite insiders, pushy sports federations and ridiculous international politics, are doing to the IOC and image of the Olympics.
> 
> As for new sports facilities in LA and elsewhere, the ante is being upped. Even a new stadium in Morocco is no slouch in "show me" architecture.
> 
> ...


Comments re the Tokyo Olympics belong in the Tokyo thread. Comments re the Olympics in general belong in the general thread. I think that the general thread would be a great place to discuss how the Olympics change as culture changes.

As before, tossing in a reference to LA does not make it a comment on the LA Olympics.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Knitemplar said:


> But they Japanese are traditionalists, so they will have that Lighting ceremony even if it's going to be very simple.


 They were known as giving a spark to the Olympics during the 1960s, just as LA was known for doing the same thing during the 1980s.

I hope Tokyo can repeat that record next year, and LA does the same in 2028. But a certain seriousness and dignity of the games have been tossed out over the past 30 years, even more rapidly within the past few years. 

Changing world politics and modern culture - and razzle-dazzle technology (like an overuse of CGI in lots of movies of today) - make a newer version of this not likely in the next three summer games:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> A similar comment to the one I made above. One of the USC "rowers" was on Rick Caruso's yacht in the Bahamas this week since she is a friend of his daughter. This is a problem because Caruso in Chairman of the Board of Trustees of USC. His comment:
> 
> "The charges filed today against employees of USC are disturbing and the alleged activity is absolutely wrong. I am saddened that these people would abuse their positions of trust and, as the government has alleged, victimize USC in the process. There is no option other than zero tolerance for this type of behavior. As a result, USC has fired the alleged wrongdoers."
> 
> Caruso was also involved with the LA Olympics, but of course he is one of the aggrieved parties here, not one of the offenders.



Comments re Rick Caruso belong in the real estate thread. Comments re land construction in general belong in the general thread. I think that the general thread would be a great place to discuss how real estate changes as culture changes.

As before, tossing in a reference to Rick Caruso does not make it a comment on the LA Olympics.


:bash:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> Comments re Rick Caruso belong in the real estate thread. Comments re land construction in general belong in the general thread. I think that the general thread would be a great place to discuss how real estate changes as culture changes.
> 
> As before, tossing in a reference to Rick Caruso does not make it a comment on the LA Olympics.
> 
> :bash:


Rick Caruso became involved since he is on the LA Olympic Committee, is Chair of the USC Board of Trustees (which has Olympic venues on and adjacent to campus) and is a former LA city official. 

He came up when it was suggested that USC should encourage the Olympic Comm. to spend money to renovate the Olympic rowing venue. I pointed out that USC does not use that venue so it is unlikely that Caruso will push USC to contribute to its restoration. 

This is what makes the story relevant to LA and the Olympics. By contrast your idiosyncratic ideas re the decline of culture as evidenced by prior and future Olympics Games is in no way connected to LA. However, in this case they are associated with the Tokyo Olympics and the general Olympic thread, which was created specifically to house your digressions. Why not use them as they are intended?


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

LA 84 had a look that wasn't to everyone's tastes. It seemed perfectly fine to me. But to others it was too flimsy, bazaar-like and ephemeral. Not majestic enough for people who prefer big-bucks Bird's Nests-type architecture and totally brand-new, master-planned Olympic versions of a huge office park or something out of Irvine, California. 

However, 2016 has come and gone. So has 2012. 2008 will get another cameo in 2022, but for winter instead of summer. The Bird's Nest will make a repeat showing. But look at how many $$$ was sunk into the games for those years. Billions of dollars. For what? For a two-week sporting event? 

I favor the "necessity is the mother of invention" of Los Angeles 1984. Inventiveness, spirit and cleverness - and heart and soul - impress me way more than the flashing of a wallet stuffed with dollar bills and a Masarati of Olympics rolling down the street.

Los Angeles in 2028, in certain ways, will be physically better than Los Angeles in 1984. More of the USC area, for one, has been redeveloped. A fancy new art museum will be west of the Coliseum instead of a parking lot. But the next Olympics in LA may ironically lose something in translation because it doesn't need to be the mother of necessity.

However, who really knows this early on?


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> This is what makes the story relevant to LA and the Olympics.


Maybe this can be introduced at the next LA Olympics:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> Maybe this can be introduced at the next LA Olympics:


Again, this is more applicable to the general Olympic thread. 

Your immediately previous post tried hard to be about LA but can't you see that the real point is your disappointment with the Olympics movement generally, not anything to do with LA? You really would reach more interested readers by posting in the general thread.


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## Sportsfan (Jul 26, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> I agree. Well, right now, Canoe/Kayak is set for the Sepulveda Basin park where the original 1984 plans called for the full 2K rowing course to be built there. With LA 2028 budget being bigger, and if the IOC pushes Salt Lake 2026, then maybe LA 2028 can squeeze additional funds from the IOC to finally create that full 2K course in Sepulveda -- which is just 20 mins up the 405 F-way from the UCLA Atheltes' Village. Actually, USC, UCLA and Pepperdine should also push for that new reservoir as it will help their rowing programs very much.


The Sepulveda Basin venue is only slated for the Canoe/Kayak *Slalom* events, not for Canoe *Sprint* events which are officially scheduled for Lake Perris. An expensive international standard 2000-meter rowing course has no legacy value for LA or the sports of Rowing and Canoe/Kayak Sprint, regardless of its proximity to downtown. The Marine Stadium is perfect for Canoe-Sprint events as they only require a 1000-meter course which can be done a lot easier and cheaper when looking at the current state of the venue. It is a mistake to consider the Marine Stadium for Rowing because the effort and cost involved to modify it for a 2000-meter event is astronomical and grossly unnecessary.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Sportsfan said:


> The Sepulveda Basin venue is only slated for the Canoe/Kayak *Slalom* events, not for Canoe *Sprint* events which are officially scheduled for Lake Perris. An expensive international standard 2000-meter rowing course has no legacy value for LA or the sports of Rowing and Canoe/Kayak Sprint, regardless of its proximity to downtown. The Marine Stadium is perfect for Canoe-Sprint events as they only require a 1000-meter course which can be done a lot easier and cheaper when looking at the current state of the venue. It is a mistake to consider the Marine Stadium for Rowing because the effort and cost involved to modify it for a 2000-meter event is astronomical and grossly unnecessary.


So what you are saying is LA should have THREE rowing venues -- in 3 distant different directions? That means splitting operational people TV crews and media, NOT TO mention lodging rowers near Lake Perris. It's a terrible concept. I hope LA 2028 can consolidate the Rowing events. If you will look at the lay out of Sepulveda, they do NOT have to scour our an entire 2000m course. There is something like a longish body of water there that they can just extend/enlarge -- and there is room to do it vs. the Marine Stadium in Long Beach.


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## Sportsfan (Jul 26, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> So what you are saying is LA should have THREE rowing venues -- in 3 distant different directions? That means splitting operational people TV crews and media, NOT TO mention lodging rowers near Lake Perris. It's a terrible concept. I hope LA 2028 can consolidate the Rowing events. If you will look at the lay out of Sepulveda, they do NOT have to scour our an entire 2000m course. There is something like a longish body of water there that they can just extend/enlarge -- and there is room to do it vs. the Marine Stadium in Long Beach.


I don't know how you could read it that way - I am certainly not saying LA should have 3 Rowing venues. The Los Angeles River is certainly not a longish body of water at Sepulveda Basin - It is a narrow, winding and shallow drainage channel totally unsuitable for rowing or Canoe/Kayak *Sprint* - If there is rain upstream during the Olympic Games, the event could not be held because the Sepulveda Dam gates would need to remain open making the course dangerous and unrowable and if there is no rain upstream the rowing venue will not have enough water. An international-standard rowing facility has certain technical parameters (minimum course length of 2,222-meters, minimum width of 162-meters and minimum consistent depth of 3.5-meters as well as the level of the surrounding topography) that can't be met at Sepulveda. It would cost BILLIONS to adapt the area (or "extend and enlarge" as you seem to think would be easy) for such a facility which makes the suggestion foolish. Also, FISA rules stipulate that you need a second, smaller (minimum 1000 meters) body of water close by that can be used for training purposes, which is impossible at Sepulveda. That's why the official LA2028 venue plan only has a whitewater stadium at Sepulveda, completely separate from the river, for Canoe/Kayak *Slalom* events only while the Canoe/Kayak *Sprint* and Rowing are slated for Lake Perris. That's not my concept - It is the current LA2028, IOC, ICF and FISA-approved concept.

I was actually arguing against the suggestion made by LA2028 to ask FISA to see if the Marine Stadium would be appropriate for Rowing only. I can guarantee that FISA will say NO to that as a 2000-meter course is not possible there without a major arterial road bridge (E 2nd Street) being removed and major inconveniences caused to other users of the channel (People on the Los Cerritos side of the channel would not be able to take out their boats for a period of up to 8 weeks - pre, during and post Olympics during the height of Summer). I was also arguing that if you want fewer athletes stationed closer to Lake Perris, keep the Rowing course at Lake Perris and consider Canoe/Kayak *Sprint* for the Marine Stadium as very little works are required to make that happen compared to if you move the Rowing there. Canoe/Kayak *Sprint* only requires a 1000-meter course, so no bridges need to be removed at Marine Stadium and boat-owning residents of the Los Cerritos Channel area won't be hindered by the course.

Finally, I need you to realize that Canoe/Kayak *Sprint* and *Slalom* are not Rowing - They are THREE completely different sports across TWO different international sporting federations. There is a major precedent as well - All three sports were held at 3 completely separate venues at Barcelona in 1992 (Rowing at Lake Banyoles, Canoe/Kayak *Sprint* at Castelldefels, and Canoe/Kayak *Slalom* at La Seu d'Urgell) and there was no issue for broadcasters, athletes or spectators then so there shouldn't be in 2028.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

/\/\ Thanks for the clarifications. I know that Slalom is different from Sprint. But I didn't know that the depth has to be 3.5 meters. I didn't think Lake Lanier in Georgia was that deep becuz due to a drought, the banks have easily surfaced. Was the Lagoon in Rio 3.5 meters deep? 

Barcelona could've had 3 venues because it was gov't financed and those Games were a showcase for Samaranch, Sr., so there was no skimping on lavish venues. LA's is, once again, a privately funded Games -- therefore they have to cut corners where they can. 

I think if it's at Perris, they will probably have to borrow dorms from Pomona College to act as a Village over there. Are there even dorms @ Pomona College or at State?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> /\/\ Thanks for the clarifications. I know that Slalom is different from Sprint. But I didn't know that the depth has to be 3.5 meters. I didn't think Lake Lanier in Georgia was that deep becuz due to a drought, the banks have easily surfaced. Was the Lagoon in Rio 3.5 meters deep?
> 
> Barcelona could've had 3 venues because it was gov't financed and those Games were a showcase for Samaranch, Sr., so there was no skimping on lavish venues. LA's is, once again, a privately funded Games -- therefore they have to cut corners where they can.
> 
> I think if it's at Perris, they will probably have to borrow dorms from Pomona College to act as a Village over there. Are there even dorms @ Pomona College or at State?


There are dorms at Pomona and the other Claremont Colleges.


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## soup or man (Nov 17, 2004)

I would imagine that if they use Lake Perris for rowing event, I would assume that they would use UCR (University of California @ Riverside) for temporary dorms since it's maybe 20 minutes away from Lake Perris.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

/\/\ I think it's whichever institution will work with LA 2028, and have its summer lodging arrangements disrupted for one summer (PLUS a test event as well); and which one would be easy to secure. PLus, of course, can easily absorb OV amenities like its own kitchen and dining room, etc., etc.

Looks like there's more than enough colleges within a 30-mile radius of Lake Perris to lend their facilities and/or inherit new dorms from LA 2028 (if they're going for a Legacy angle). 

https://www.collegesimply.com/colleges-near/california/perris/


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Knitemplar said:


> Barcelona could've had 3 venues because it was gov't financed and those Games were a showcase for Samaranch, Sr., so there was no skimping on lavish venues. LA's is, once again, a privately funded Games -- therefore they have to cut corners where they can.





> _Every city that hosts a summer Olympics is now expected to build a spectacular new whitewater stadium, usually powered by electric pumps. The Lee Valley White Water Centre, constructed for the London 2012 Summer Olympics, cost £31million._


A whitewater course was never built for the 1984 games and saved the LA committee millions of dollars. That type of venue all alone will eat up big bucks. If the 2028 committee has to include it in 9 years, their budget is automatically going to have more pressure put on it than their 1984 counterparts had to deal with.

Maybe they can borrow the roaring rapids ride at Knott's - is it still even there? - or in the park next to Disneyland?

As for politics and the Olympics, it appears that LA 28 will be a women-only event:










Hey, no fair. Shout out for the transgendered. Or is that cisgendered?


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

A video with a total of 15 views from a random account with no photo. Yeah, cos that's official. :nuts:


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## slipperydog (Jul 19, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> /\/\ I think it's whichever institution will work with LA 2028, and have its summer lodging arrangements disrupted for one summer (PLUS a test event as well); and which one would be easy to secure. PLus, of course, can easily absorb OV amenities like its own kitchen and dining room, etc., etc.
> 
> Looks like there's more than enough colleges within a 30-mile radius of Lake Perris to lend their facilities and/or inherit new dorms from LA 2028 (if they're going for a Legacy angle).
> 
> https://www.collegesimply.com/colleges-near/california/perris/


Most of those are 2-year community colleges who don't generally have extensive housing facilities. More than likely they'll use UC Riverside. Cal Baptist, also in Riverside, would need to build new housing, as their housing facilities aren't quite modern enough.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

slipperydog said:


> Most of those are 2-year community colleges who don't generally have extensive housing facilities. More than likely they'll use UC Riverside. Cal Baptist, also in Riverside, would need to build new housing, as their housing facilities aren't quite modern enough.


Then that's going to be major expenditure for keeping the Rowing venue in Lake Perris. What LOCOG will save in using a natural setting, will be offset by having to build (OK, guaranteed co-shared by, say, the school, the state of California, donations and LOCOG) new dorms, etc., for maybe 500 people. I think they better look for another site.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

I think you misunderstood slipperdogs sentence. (if not, sorry). He says Cal Baptist (private) would have to build new dorms, not UCR. 

UCR has dorms. Lots of student housing they can use.

UCR and Lake Perris are 16 miles apart. 

THey can use them without needing to build any more buildings. 

They can stay at Pentland Hills Dorms. Pretty new buildings. 
or Lothian. Even Aberdeen (old). 
https://www.google.com/maps/place/P...c14edb276d644!8m2!3d33.9778998!4d-117.3224133

I don't see why UCR would not allow them for use. If UCLA can, why not UCR.
Exposure alone is worth the cost for UCR.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

redspork02 said:


> I think you misunderstood slipperdogs sentence. (if not, sorry). He says Cal Baptist (private) would have to build new dorms, not UCR.
> 
> UCR has dorms. Lots of student housing they can use.
> 
> ...


Of course, this is all speculation -- but the point the IOC and the Rowing Federation want is for the Rowing athletes to share the communal Village experience with the main body of athletes who will be billeted @ UCLA. It's not NOT having their own quarters closer to Perris. As we have all speculated, that is seemingly possible. 

In the last go-around in 1984, the Rowing folks were already billeted @ UC-Santa Barbara. I think that proved to be a lesser Olympic experience for them than those housed at USC and UCLA. I believe the 2028 organizers want to BETTER that experience by housing them @ UCLA without breaking the bank with a new venue or having to drive them for at least 2 hours to Perris (or Long Beach). 

I am sure reasonable negotiations with UCR can be arrived at -- but does 2028 want a repeat of the 1984 experience for the Rowing athletes? That is the main question. Even housing them @ USC with the media could cut down travel time to Perris by what? 45 minutes -- but it would still deprive them of schmoozing and networking with the other jocks @ UCLA. 

The whole point though of getting the rowers' housing as close to the venue is, because at these outdoor settings, competition before 10am is ideal when the high winds have not kicked up and the sun isn't too hot, thus, the closer their housing is, the later they have to set out for the course. But if the rowers have to be @ Perris @, say 8:00 am, then they have to get up @ 5:30 am, have some breakfast and then allow for 2 hours' travel time from UCLA to Perris. Which would also mean that the fans for Rowing would also have to arrive @ the venue at around 8 - 8:30 when the competition gets going. 

But if Rowing were held @ Sepulveda, then they wouldn't have to get up until 6:30 or 7:00am, before setting out for Sepulveda @ 7:30 and be there around 8:00 -- or 9:00 am would be an even better start. 

I know those early morning starts were demanded by the wind conditions @ both Casitas (1984) and Lanier (1996). I don't know if they have the same wind conditions @ Perris. 

Can LA 2028 have their cake and eat it too?


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

I have an idea for 8-person rowing races if they want to keep them in the Long Beach Marine course for the 2K distance, WITHOUT digging up the course. How about after the first 1,000 meters, they REVERSE the rowing and let the boats row out in the order that they reached the 1,000 mark? Also, that way, the paying fans would TRULY get their money's worth because not only would they see the boats take off, but see them come back to the starting line? I think this would really be innovative.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> I have an idea for 8-person rowing races if they want to keep them in the Long Beach Marine course for the 2K distance, WITHOUT digging up the course. How about after the first 1,000 meters, they REVERSE the rowing and let the boats row out in the order that they reached the 1,000 mark? Also, that way, the paying fans would TRULY get their money's worth because not only would they see the boats take off, but see them come back to the starting line? I think this would really be innovative.


Agree completely. Rowing and beach volleyball (among other sports) seem SO naturally Long Beach that I could picture a separate athlete's village down there.

The point of the Olympics is NOT the precise details of the competitive arrangement; it's the meeting of nations in celebration of sport and human vitality. 

Let the two week Long Beach beach party begin! Beach Boys music and mandatory showings of Point Break every night. When you're in LA, you live LA or you go home.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> Agree completely. Rowing and beach volleyball (among other sports) seem SO naturally Long Beach that I could picture a separate athlete's village down there.
> 
> .


FYI, for events sked for LB, all the athletes are still to be billeted @ UCLA (probably 45-50 mins' drive from Westwood on special Olympic lanes on the 405). And they are returning Beach Volleyball to Santa Monica though, the home of BV.

So, except for the footballers in the distant satellite sites (I think San Diego and Santa Clara), with my turn-around plan for Rowing @ Marine Stadium, then 95% of the 2028 athletes would all be communing @ the Official Village in UCLA.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Knitemplar said:


> I have an idea for 8-person rowing races if they want to keep them in the Long Beach Marine course for the 2K distance, WITHOUT digging up the course. How about after the first 1,000 meters, they REVERSE the rowing and let the boats row out in the order that they reached the 1,000 mark? Also, that way, the paying fans would TRULY get their money's worth because not only would they see the boats take off, but see them come back to the starting line? I think this would really be innovative.


What about the mouth of the LA River? too choppy? Queen Mary in the backdrop? DTLB in the backdrop?
(Queens way Bay is the name per google maps).


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

redspork02 said:


> What about the mouth of the LA River? too choppy? Queen Mary in the backdrop? DTLB in the backdrop?
> (Queens way Bay is the name per google maps).


Probably so. I think IRU is very picky about tidal currents which those two locations are subject to. Plus a lot of other logistical considerations -- crowd access; angle of the sun; where to store all those boats; environmental concerns; whose jurisdiction the venue and the shores are, etc., etc.,


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> FYI, for events sked for LB, all the athletes are still to be billeted @ UCLA (probably 45-50 mins' drive from Westwood on special Olympic lanes on the 405). And they are returning Beach Volleyball to Santa Monica though, the home of BV.
> 
> So, except for the footballers in the distant satellite sites (I think San Diego and Santa Clara), with my turn-around plan for Rowing @ Marine Stadium, then 95% of the 2028 athletes would all be communing @ the Official Village in UCLA.


Of course; that's the current proposal. I'm saying to change that so as to make a larger beach oriented group that will have enough size to maintain a festive beach environment for at least a week. Music, exhibitions, street sports and performers, etc.

As an entirely separate issue, I would also cancel all "special Olympic lanes". That's just b/s and abuse of the LA populace. If the IOC has a problem with that, choose someone else. We are doing the IOC a favor; NOT vice versa. The IOC can't be allowed to believe they are more important than local residents' needs.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> As an entirely separate issue, I would also cancel all "special Olympic lanes". That's just b/s and abuse of the LA populace. If the IOC has a problem with that, choose someone else. We are doing the IOC a favor; NOT vice versa. The IOC can't be allowed to believe they are more important than local residents' needs.


Nah. Not going to be an issue. One of the phenomena of the last two Summer Games in the US (LA and Atlanta) was that the freeways in and around the host city were ACTUALLY the lightest during the Olympic period in history. So the populace in both cities, voluntarily and on their own, stayed away from the freeways during the 10 regular business/working days of the Olympic period. So, no need to feel that the locals will be inconvenienced or put out of their way by having the special HOV Olympic lanes for just 17 days. 

(Wasn't even an issue for Lake Placid and Salt Lake because you really do a minimum of freeway driving during the winter.)


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> Nah. Not going to be an issue. One of the phenomena of the last two Summer Games in the US (LA and Atlanta) was that the freeways in and around the host city were ACTUALLY the lightest during the Olympic period in history. So the populace in both cities, voluntarily and on their own, stayed away from the freeways during the 10 regular business/working days of the Olympic period. So, no need to feel that the locals will be inconvenienced or put out of their way by having the special HOV Olympic lanes for just 17 days.
> 
> (Wasn't even an issue for Lake Placid and Salt Lake because you really do a minimum of freeway driving during the winter.)


Yes, I lived in LA for the 1984 Games and arranged to be out of town for a week. Not that bad for me, but I lived in the Valley and worked out of the west side.

But still, public support of Olympics will deteriorate quickly if they believe that they are getting benefits that detract from locals. Already a glimmer in Paris where rival politicians are calling for a referendum on cancelling the Olympics in the wake of Macron's continuing taxation of the rural and working poor to implement transit, building and festivities in Paris.


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## Sportsfan (Jul 26, 2009)

pesto said:


> Agree completely. Rowing and beach volleyball (among other sports) seem SO naturally Long Beach that I could picture a separate athlete's village down there.
> 
> The point of the Olympics is NOT the precise details of the competitive arrangement; it's the meeting of nations in celebration of sport and human vitality.
> 
> Let the two week Long Beach beach party begin! Beach Boys music and mandatory showings of Point Break every night. When you're in LA, you live LA or you go home.


Excuse me, but stating that "the point of the Olympics is not the precise details of the competitive arrangement" and spouting airy-fairy ideals about "the meeting of nations in celebration of sport and human vitality" makes you sound like an advertising executive for NBC. The Olympics are most definitely about the "precise details" - Experiencing and striving for the pinnacle of their respective sports is the ultimate for all of the athletes as well as the fans. The pinnacle event of your sport means that you don't change the rules just to suit the host city. There is no way that FISA (Rowing's international governing body) will ever agree to compromise that by making it an up-and-back course just because it's in Long Beach. That'd be like saying the Shooting events should be held in the back streets of Compton, you know, for the tradition of the area. They can make it a gang vs gang event instead - USA can be Bloods and Mexico can be Crips. Come on, get real!


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

Sportsfan said:


> Excuse me, but stating that "the point of the Olympics is not the precise details of the competitive arrangement" and spouting airy-fairy ideals about "the meeting of nations in celebration of sport and human vitality" makes you sound like an advertising executive for NBC. The Olympics are most definitely about the "precise details" - Experiencing and striving for the pinnacle of their respective sports is the ultimate for all of the athletes as well as the fans. The pinnacle event of your sport means that you don't change the rules just to suit the host city. There is no way that FISA (Rowing's international governing body) will ever agree to compromise that by making it an up-and-back course just because it's in Long Beach. That'd be like saying the Shooting events should be held in the back streets of Compton, you know, for the tradition of the area. They can make it a gang vs gang event instead - USA can be Bloods and Mexico can be Crips. Come on, get real!


 :colgate:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Sportsfan said:


> Excuse me, but stating that "the point of the Olympics is not the precise details of the competitive arrangement" and spouting airy-fairy ideals about "the meeting of nations in celebration of sport and human vitality" makes you sound like an advertising executive for NBC. The Olympics are most definitely about the "precise details" - Experiencing and striving for the pinnacle of their respective sports is the ultimate for all of the athletes as well as the fans. The pinnacle event of your sport means that you don't change the rules just to suit the host city. There is no way that FISA (Rowing's international governing body) will ever agree to compromise that by making it an up-and-back course just because it's in Long Beach. That'd be like saying the Shooting events should be held in the back streets of Compton, you know, for the tradition of the area. They can make it a gang vs gang event instead - USA can be Bloods and Mexico can be Crips. Come on, get real!


I will leave aside the unbelievable racism and pettiness. I guess the internet breeds that in the small minded and ignorant.

If FISA isn't interested they can hold their own official world-championships with their own money. Not a problem. I am not saying the IOC needs to ram anything down their throats, but they are one of those sports that are not rolling in money and might be interested in getting coverage in a venue that is attractive to both viewers and to the athletes. Small country rowers posing with the latest basketball or soccer superstar might not hurt the sport either.

Virtually every sport changes rules, events, judging standards, equipment, allowable playing techniques, officiating approaches. etc. Baseballs are not made of horsehide any more nor are footballs pigskins. 

Breakdancing? You don't just change the rules, you f'ing make them up. Same for any of the "artistic events" where judgment plays a determinative role and the judges are different from event to event.


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## urbanflight (Dec 12, 2018)

*Los Angeles 2028 Olympics budget hits $6.9B*








> The organizing committee expects to break even
> 
> The Los Angeles organizing committee for the 2028 Olympics today announced an updated budget for the privately funded games, which are now expected to cost roughly $6.9 billion.
> 
> ...


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

2028 L.A. Olympics Revised Budget Now Nearly $7 Billion - KTLA (local)



> The price tag on the Los Angeles 2028 Olympics is now $6.88 billion, a $1.36 billion increase that comes mainly because of accounting measures designed to better reflect inflation over the long lead-up to those games.


Inflation within 11 years? duh!



> The city of Los Angeles and state of California originally were projected to guarantee $250 million each for the contingency fund — with LA on the hook for the first $250 million, then the state for the rest. Those figures have been adjusted to $270 million apiece; the organizing committee has repeatedly said it doesn’t expect to need that backup.


better not. 



> By agreeing to host an Olympics on an 11-year timeline instead of the usual seven years, LA cut different marketing deals with both the IOC and the U.S. Olympic Committee. The budget projects $2.51 billion in domestic sponsorship revenue — a lofty goal that organizers hope to reach with help of a new arrangement with NBC Universal that will pair advertising on the network’s platforms with sponsorship of the U.S. team.


hope so...... or else. tisk tisk.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

This is exactly why the LA approach is the one that every city should use: if things go poorly the taxpayers are not at stake to make it up.

The 270M of course is mouse-nuts and is dwarfed by the obvious benefits to local merchants from visitors and public exposure.

But the optics would for sure be better if they keep in the black.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

urbanflight said:


> *Los Angeles 2028 Olympics budget hits $6.9B*


 Uhmmm, and what is $6.9 billion compared to $40 billion for Beijing 2008 and $52 billion for Sochi 2014? I think Tokyo 2020 will cost like US$22 billion. Besides, much of that $6.9 billion will be plowed RIGHT BACK into the LA area economy and LA workers' pockets. So, what's the beef about??


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> Uhmmm, and what is $6.9 billion compared to $40 billion for Beijing 2008 and $52 billion for Sochi 2014? I think Tokyo 2020 will cost like US$22 billion. Besides, much of that $6.9 billion will be plowed RIGHT BACK into the LA area economy and LA workers' pockets. So, what's the beef about??


There isn't any beef; this is just low journalism. The Olympics won't cost taxpayers anything most likely; the funds come from private sources. If there is a short-fall, the state and city have signed up for 270M each which is almost immaterial compared to the obvious benefits from that many visitors in LA and the rest of the state.

Of course, I am assuming that the LA Comm. and IOC are doing good work with the numbers; if not then anything could happen.


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## Chevy114 (Jul 21, 2011)

LA will be fine, they have most of the infrastructures ready. That's really where past Olympics have screwed up.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Chevy114 said:


> LA will be fine, they have most of the infrastructures ready. That's really where past Olympics have screwed up.


Exactly. The clearest calling card of Olympics and World Cup bids is that they are funded by construction companies, unions and hotels, and fronted by their political allies who try to sell "making our city glorious" to the taxpayers.

Holding to a policy of having all major costs already committed to and in process well before the bid is voted on is probably the best way to keep this from happening.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Los Angeles Plans To Hold 2028 Olympics In Toronto For The Tax Incentives


> LOS ANGELES—In an effort to lessen the financial strain of hosting the Summer Games, officials from the city of Los Angeles announced Tuesday a new plan to hold the 2028 Olympics in Toronto for the tax incentives. “It just makes the most sense when it comes down to our budget—with a little bit of set dressing, Toronto can be made to look just like L.A.,” said L.A. 2028 Organizing Committee Chairman Casey Wasserman of the detailed plans already underway to create convincing replicas of Los Angeles sports venues from Toronto’s existing Rogers Centre, Varsity Centre, and BMO Field.


 ................:lol:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

redspork02 said:


> Los Angeles Plans To Hold 2028 Olympics In Toronto For The Tax Incentives
> ................:lol:


Show Biz! Just like it's much cheaper to do the filming of a moon landing in LA than on the Moon. :lol:


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

redspork02 said:


> Los Angeles Plans To Hold 2028 Olympics In Toronto For The Tax Incentives
> ................:lol:


Uhmmm . . . April 1st was like six weeks ago. This bit of news smells stale.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Knitemplar said:


> Uhmmm . . . April 1st was like six weeks ago. This bit of news smells stale.


Yup, theyre a bit late. haha

LOL, its not news, its "The Onion", a satire website. :lol:


FOr those that don't know, LAs political leaders are constantly fighting "runaway productions" to Vancouver, BC and Atlanta, GA. Etc....
Studios claim its cost effective. this is a play on this topic. pretty funny.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

redspork02 said:


> Yup, theyre a bit late. haha
> 
> 
> FOr those that don't know, LAs political leaders are constantly fighting "runaway productions" to . . . Atlanta, GA.


You were saying about runaway productions to Georgia?? :nuts: 

*Five Production Companies Say They Won't Film in Georgia Over Abortion Law *

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/n...y-they-wont-film-georgia-abortion-law-1209168


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Knitemplar said:


> You were saying about runaway productions to Georgia?? :nuts:
> 
> *Five Production Companies Say They Won't Film in Georgia Over Abortion Law *
> 
> https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/n...y-they-wont-film-georgia-abortion-law-1209168


Scheduled for The Onion next week:

"World Athletes Returning Their Atlanta Olympics Medals Over Abortion Law"


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

conservative lawmakers in the South are going to be the ones to save the Hollywood film industry, whoulda thunk it! :lol:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

aquamaroon said:


> conservative lawmakers in the South are going to be the ones to save the Hollywood film industry, whoulda thunk it! :lol:


This is the greatness of the open society and private economy: at any moment, some bizarre development can change a worldwide industry and create new winners and losers!

Or, it could just be these producers are in desperate need of some press coverage. :lol:


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## folletoss (May 13, 2019)

It looks like it's going to be an awesome stadium, I'd like to see it when it's finished


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> Scheduled for The Onion next week:
> 
> "World Athletes Returning Their Atlanta Olympics Medals Over Abortion Law"


Just wait until Birmingham (AL) cancels World Games 2021 over home-state Alabama's pro-life laws.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Exactly. 

More generally, I assume I could find something morally objectionable about every business and businessperson in the world if I tried. But the ones you actually HEAR ABOUT and because some really unscrupulous group wants to use your hate to make a profit for themselves which they can't accomplish with actual quality products.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

I remember when the 2028 planners were talking about building a village on the side of the LA River in downtown LA. My confidence in their ability and saneness to host a games plummeted.

I look at what has been built, is being built or will be built for the next two Olympics and the past two Olympics, and I wonder, all this for a two-week sporting event? Does that make sense? Is it worth it?

Look at the hundreds of millions of dollars poured into, being poured into, or will be poured into the games by the organizers of the London, Rio, Tokyo and Paris games. 

I don't know how 2028 is going to turn out. But if the admittedly PR-slick ad prepared by the LA organizers that show the UCLA dorms and campus portrays a setting that will be as lived-in friendly in 9 years as they appear to be today, I'll take a comfortable "old-shoe" and "favorite-bathrobe" village any day to a "new car-smell" village. 

But who knows?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> I remember when the 2028 planners were talking about building a village on the side of the LA River in downtown LA. My confidence in their ability and saneness to host a games plummeted.
> 
> I look at what has been built, is being built or will be built for the next two Olympics and the past two Olympics, and I wonder, all this for a two-week sporting event? Does that make sense? Is it worth it?
> 
> ...


Well, I lived in the UCLA dorms but of course not during the Olympics. They came with such nice amenities that athletes who were done and supposed to return home would hide during the day and break-in at night well after the games were over. Some would stay there as long as possible and then disappear into the US somewhere. 

Other athlete villages have certainly been easy targets for critics due to cost and other issues.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> Other athlete villages have certainly been easy targets for critics due to cost and other issues.


I've always liked that 1996 escaped the insanity of building a village as part of an Olympics that's more real-estate portfolio than two-week sporting event. That's too much a case of, if not much ado about nothing, than going overboard for a quadrennial spectacle. The 1996 organizers also used the college/campus approach to the games, which makes sense for an event not trying to duplicate the lessons of 2016.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> I've always liked that 1996 escaped the insanity of building a village as part of an Olympics that's more real-estate portfolio than two-week sporting event. That's too much a case of, if not much ado about nothing, than going overboard for a quadrennial spectacle. The 1996 organizers also used the college/campus approach to the games, which makes sense for an event not trying to duplicate the lessons of 2016.


Nice. Looks like a great post to put in a more general thread or one dealing with Olympic villages. Not so much with LA 2028, where the village is generally already there and pictures available.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> Not so much with LA 2028, where the village is generally already there and pictures available.



Famous last words when people in the 2024 planning committee - who probably are a part of today's 2028 committee - and others similar to Garcetti just a few years ago actually took this option as serious and workable:








Maybe the village at UCLA is set in stone in 2019. But who knows what other harebrained preferences may slip in under the wire in the next 9 years among members of the 2028 committee?

LA's next Olympics has already dodged one major bullet. Hopefully, there won't be any more gunfire before 2028.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> Famous last words when people in the 2024 planning committee - who probably are a part of today's 2028 committee - and others similar to Garcetti just a few years ago actually took this option as serious and workable:
> 
> Maybe the village at UCLA is set in stone in 2019. But who knows what other harebrained preferences may slip in under the wire in the next 9 years among members of the 2028 committee?
> 
> LA's next Olympics has already dodged one major bullet. Hopefully, there won't be any more gunfire before 2028.


I wasn't a fan of Piggyback Yard either but the concept was to house athletes in downtown near many venues and then have a new village by the river. I wouldn't call that hare-brained. When talks with UP and costs didn't work out, the committee dropped the idea and went with UCLA instead.

That's how it is with ideas: they are proposed, modified and sometimes other ideas come along. 

I think it is a safe bet that there will be plenty of changes over time. Just this week Paris announced that it won't try to complete the rail link from CDG to the center of town even though it was in the bid book. This is unfortunate for the Games, but nothing worth worrying about. I suppose that more shuttles or dedicated lanes or some such will be implemented if traffic seems likely to be a problem.


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## Chevy114 (Jul 21, 2011)

californiadreams said:


> I've always liked that 1996 escaped the insanity of building a village as part of an Olympics that's more real-estate portfolio than two-week sporting event. That's too much a case of, if not much ado about nothing, than going overboard for a quadrennial spectacle. The 1996 organizers also used the college/campus approach to the games, which makes sense for an event not trying to duplicate the lessons of 2016.


You can't really see from that angle, but they actually did use it for dorms at Georgia Teach. This is a better angle to see how close it is to the football stadium:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> I wouldn't call that hare-brained.


Actually, it's more that than I realized. I didn't know a previous committee working on bringing the Olympics to LA back when Antonio Villaloboso was still mayor relied on the model of UCLA as the games' village. 

That means the more recent committee switched to using a costly new village concept before coming to their senses and deciding on the other option favored by the earlier group.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Chevy114 said:


> You can't really see from that angle, but they actually did use it for dorms at Georgia Teach.



I don't know why the college dorm option isn't used by more host cities. However, I'm not exactly sure what Tokyo and Paris, and Rio and London too, have in the way of college campuses that can serve as a temporary Olympic village.

However, when watching this video, Casey Wasserman mentions how comparatively modest were the number of UCLA dorm rooms when the 1984 games were in LA. So the organizers back then were forced to split the village between UCLA and USC. That's in spite of fewer athletes being involved in an Olympics over 30 years ago.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

I'm glad you found a way to talk about previous Olympics AND how much fear you have by simply comparing previous LA Olympics to early, long-rejected proposals for the 2028 games. 

AND, you still managed to sneak in a couple of shots at the possibility that UCLA housing will be inadequate for the 2028 Games since blah, blah in 1984.

But at least this let's poor old Sebastian Coe and London off the hook for a while. :lol:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://newsroom.cisco.com/feature-content?type=webcontent&articleId=1987429

WARNING: Be careful regarding anything in this article until you have touched it and seen it actually functioning. :lol:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> AND, you still managed to sneak in a couple of shots at the possibility that UCLA housing will be inadequate for the 2028 Games since blah, blah in 1984.


Huh? Not sure where you got that? 

Both UCLA and USC are in better shape today than they were over 30 years ago when they last hosted a major international sports event.

However, I will say that skyscrapercity.com's code must be as bad as Sebastian Coe's organization was in 2012. 

What the hell is going with this forum's message system?


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> I'm glad you found a way to talk about previous Olympics AND how much fear you have by simply comparing previous LA Olympics to early, long-rejected proposals for the 2028 games.
> 
> AND, you still managed to sneak in a couple of shots at the possibility that UCLA housing will be inadequate for the 2028 Games since blah, blah in 1984.



I went back and re-read my post about Casey Wasserman's presentation and, yea, I guess it could be seen as sort of a dig. But I found Wasserman's going over the history of UCLA in terms of number of dorm rooms as something I had never thought of before. 

I didn't realize the village had been split between UCLA and USC in 1984 out of necessity, not choice. I thought it had been done for variety and convenience. Or to not piss off alumni of one school over the other.

I also found his comments about the IOC member mentioning the trees at UCLA amusing. Another reason why a brand-new, new-car-smell Olympic Village may not be all that it's cracked up to be. 

But I do admit the idea of the 2028 Olympics being in LA would be a lousy one if the organizers had to do what Tokyo is now doing (much less their having to build new venues) and what Paris - as what Casey said they'll have to do - is going to need to create before 2024.


https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...-the-game-series-mount-gariwang-a8923401.html



> As the IOC’s head of sustainability, Michelle Lemaitre, tells _The Independent_: “The world is changing. Those ‘build everything’ Games: cities aren’t looking for that anymore.
> 
> Very few cities on earth can match the build-free pledge of Los Angeles. If this is to be the new standard, then the Olympics will soon become the preserve of the global mega-city.
> 
> ...


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Lemaitre is right but it leaves him basically saying that profits for the IOC is more important that "green", "sustainability" and such. 

The same is true for every Olympic Comm., including two-faced Hidalgo, who pretends that bid cities and the Olympics are not in and of themselves part of the problem. 

"Total" does not pollute the earth; scheduling events that require massive concrete and encourage people to travel by air, car or train are the polluters. They are the ones who perceive their needs (profits and entertainment) to be more important than ecological problems. Total sells to them what they demand.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> including two-faced Hidalgo



Speaking of which, if Garcetti had done an English-US-2028 version of this video, with his face superimposed on models of a village next to the LA River, the scent of BS would be so great, that his head would have to be pounded in stop the stench.








Casey Wasserman referred to what the 2024 organizers are now having to deal with. 

Closer in time, Tokyo has already blown its budget. All its "environmentally friendly" recycled medals for next year's winners won't be worth crap in helping Mother Earth given the huge spendthrift buildings the Tokyoites are choosing to install.

The next summer Olympics probably won't be a mess like Rio 2016. But the 2020 committee is still putting way too much fuss into a 2-week sporting event. 

2020 planners would do well to study the comparatively modest spending and basic charm of 1964.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

californiadreams said:


> 2020 planners would do well to study the comparatively modest spending and basic charm of 1964.


You're kinda outta your gourd. 2020 is NOT the same world as 1964. Such a silly comment. Maybe that's why you're just behind a computer and NOT on an organizing committee, you think??

And neutrally, the 2024 Village is nothing but a bunch of boxes lined up by the Seine. How could they come up with something so BORING, so uninspired, in one of the most beautiful cities in the world?


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Knitemplar said:


> Maybe that's why you're just behind a computer and NOT on an organizing committee, you think??


Your comment would be shared by most people at the IOC and various local organizing committees, particularly the ones in charge of Rio 2016. In turn, that makes me think of this:

https://www.simscale.com/blog/2017/12/nasa-mars-climate-orbiter-metric/



> In September of 1999, after almost 10 months of travel to Mars, the Mars Climate Orbiter burned and broke into pieces. On a day when NASA engineers were expecting to celebrate, the ground reality turned out to be completely different, all because someone failed to use the right units, i.e., the metric units!



https://www.history.com/news/how-the-challenger-disaster-changed-nasa



> How Groupthink Led to 7 Lives Lost in the Challenger Explosion
> 
> the Rogers Commission interviewed engineers and decision-makers at both NASA and Morton Thiokol, the company that built the solid rocket boosters. What it found was a stunning lack of communication—almost as if officials had been playing a game of broken telephone, with the result that incomplete and misleading information reached NASA’s top echelons. And among that ill-translated information were concerns about the O-rings. The issue was completely absent from all the flight-readiness documents.
> 
> The Commission ultimately flagged the root cause of the accident as “a serious flaw in the decision-making process leading up to the launch.” Seven lives could have seen saved if concerns about the O-rings had reached the right people, or if Thiokol had worried more about safety than satisfying its major customer.


https://www.space.com/19436-columbia-disaster.html



> In the weeks after the disaster, a dozen officials began sifting through the Columbia disaster, led by Harold W. Gehman Jr., former commander-in-chief of the U.S. Joint Forces Command. The Columbia Accident Investigation Board, or CAIB, as it was later known, later released a multi-volume report on how the shuttle was destroyed, and what led to it.
> 
> Besides the physical cause – the foam – CAIB had a damning assessment about the culture at NASA that led to the foam problem and other safety issues being minimized over the years.
> 
> "Cultural traits and organizational practices detrimental to safety were allowed to develop," the board wrote, citing "reliance on past success as a substitute for sound engineering practices" and "organizational barriers that prevented effective communication of critical safety information" among the problems found.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

http://www.foxla.com/news/local-new...streets-sidewalks-not-ready-for-2028-olympics

LA tries to figure what other expenditures to steal money from to make up for 30 years of not fixing sidewalks (or roads, etc.).

But seriously, why fix the sidewalks for the Olympics when you won’t fix them for the kids, elderly and everyone else who uses them every day? If you want the world to see the real LA, it's the one with bad roads and bad sidewalks to fund overpaid and overstaffed public servants, tax breaks to hotels, etc.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> fund overpaid and overstaffed public servants, tax breaks to hotels, etc.


The level of corruption and feather bedding in city governments likely is quite high. In terms of mowing down the people of a community, and their tax burden, look at what's going on with the managers of Tokyo's games. Big budgets, lots of invoices. They and the IOC didn't seem to learn much from games like Rio 2016. 

Must be a lot of procrastination too. No one wants to get their hands dirty or deal with nuisances and chores.

Not too different from the owners of this website who never get around to fixing the codes of skyscrapercity's message board.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Not sure how much of the tone or feng shui - if any at all - of the next three summer Olympics can be estimated by watching these three videos sponsored by the LA, Tokyo and Paris host committees. Lots of slick production padding in them. But one of the three seems to be less off than the other two. It's like that sense you get when observing a person who has lots of experience and a feel for know-how compared with a person who's still learning the ropes.


















Natural or man-made disasters, of course - and among other things - will play a big role in how things unfold over the next 9 years. So it's still a big guessing game. But I recall when the 2012 organizers unveiled their official logo in 2007, it seemed to remain off in various ways from that day forward. 

There have been some experts in graphics who've said the bid logo for 2028 wasn't to their liking. Personally, I think it seems as the least off, or the nicest change of pace, of any Olympic candidate logos in a long time. I hope they keep it as the formal logo of the 2028 games themselves. Literal and figurative is a good difference compared with "huh?" abstract shapes, sometimes ones that remind people of Lisa Simpson doing a Monica Lewinsky.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

I'm not really into logos but I did think there was a typo when the Paris logo came out. It obviously says "LA". :lol:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> I'm not really into logos but I did think there was a typo when the Paris logo came out. It obviously says "LA". :lol:



Around 1:32, there are shots of people in Paris and LA and some of them are holding the bid logo for 2028, but are using their hands to represent the 2024 one. The one for 2028 is self-explanatory.






 

At the IOC session in 2017 to confirm the double award, I notice 2024 still seemed to be in more of a hard sell mode. As though they had to convince themselves it would work. 

Their presentation of venues at 34:25 is different from the simpler one for 2028 at 1:08:20. The Paris presentation in general begins around 26:10 and the LA presentation starts around 56:54.

1:33 clearly shows why it would have been a major snub if Paris didn't get 2024. Images from its two previous games are old and grainy, while images from 1984 don't look like they're from all that long ago.

LA will be physically more suitable to host the games in 2028 compared with 1984. Things like a new major museum next to the Coliseum and a more presentable central city in 2028 will contrast with the city's condition over 30 years ago. Yet the 2028 Olympics themselves may end up somehow less good than the games were in 1984? Or equally good? Or better than they were in 1984?

Paris will always impress more people than LA does. Yet the 2024 games may not live up to its city's reputation?

Lots of ironies exist in the past and present and may exist in the future.
.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Around 1:54, Garcetti reminds me that it wasn't that long ago the idea of an LA bid wasn't seen by many as correct or plausible. An idea based on the unspoken rule that other American cities - such as a Boston or Chicago - should come first. Or that other cities in the world had to take priority over a host from 1984.

I also used to think a place with the traditions, history, excellence and ceremonial know-how of London would never be off from start to finish. Yet even basic things like a logo described by some as looking like an X-rated version of Lisa Simpson kept cropping up. 

However, the 2012 games have been described by many people as a big success. Absolutely. But influenced by grading on a curve and using things like 2016 as a part of that curve?

EDIT: I watched more of the IOC's double award 2 years ago and noticed the 2024 group delayed the signature presentation because they were off on the side high fiving one another, more reminiscent of past bid winners.

The PA announcer had to repeat what procedures of the IOC's session were to occur. 

Then when Bach and Hildago were at the rostrum formally signing the 2024 documents, they were generally all by themselves. The 2024 team had wandered off elsewhere.

When the 2028 signature presentation began, Bach and Garcetti were surrounded by members of the 2028 team. 

It's odd differences like those that are sort of a feng shui of various host groups, such as the 2012's group unveiling their official logo of the 2012 games, the one that looked like Lisa Simpson doing a Lewinsky.

The rear projection images of the 2028 group also looked friendlier than the ones used by the 2024 host committee.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

1936, 1956 and Denver 1976 will always live in my heart. oke:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.independent.co.uk/trave...-2024-olympics-uber-ratp-france-a8963716.html

The Great Air-Taxi Race! Paris responds to the possibility that LA may have air taxis at their Olympics by announcing its own program. 

Personally, I would rank the presence of air taxis pretty far down on the list of requisites. But people must be tired of hearing about eSports and breakdancing, which somehow just aren’t “sports” in the same way that playing the air guitar is not a sport .

More generally, it is interesting how the Olympics are used by locals. In LA, there have been articles about how the costs of building or repairing the subway system, roads and sidewalks are “Olympic costs”. This works both ways: the Olympics cause the waste of money on transit and sidewalks; or the Olympics provide the benefit of improvements to transit and sidewalks. Same for vagabonds, housing, new plantings, etc. It’s somehow tied to the Olympics, for better or worse.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

News: The U.S. Olympic Committee has changed its name to the U.S. Olympic & Paralympic Committee. Board of directors approved new name today.

*USOPC* Chair Susanne Lyons: “This is a proud day for Paralympic and Olympic sport in the United States and a change that is representative of our organization’s commitment to inclusivity.”

Digital marks changed already, with all physical branding expected to be done by next year. No word on expected cost of changes. USOC is unusual b/c it manages both Olympic and Paralympic teams (only 3 other countries do it that way)

https://twitter.com/BenFischerSBJ

kay:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> More generally, it is interesting how the Olympics are used by locals. In LA, there have been articles about how the costs of building or repairing the subway system, roads and sidewalks are “Olympic costs”.


Beyond guesswork of what 2028 will be like - both the games and LA - the 2020 games reportedly have so much demand for tickets that a lot of people trying to get seats are out of luck. 

Tokyo will be in marked contrast to Rio. If so, another reason the IOC should stop trying to make the summer games a bloated tourist brochure and overdone airline promo campaign, and stick with the most logical alternatives, not the most politically correct ones.


https://archpaper.com/2019/06/2028-olympics-los-angeles/




> *L.A. Transforms Itself*
> 
> *Before the 2028 Olympics, L.A. embarks on its most transformative urban vision in a generation*
> 
> ...


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Knitemplar said:


> 1936, 1956 and Denver 1976 will always live in my heart. oke:



The Berlin games did originate the idea of a torch relay run and the stadium in Berlin has one of the few historic Olympic cauldrons still in existence.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> representative of our organization’s commitment to inclusivity.”


Not inclusive enough. Try harder, USOC. Or whatever it's now named.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

For sure someone is going to move into the Tokyo village at some price. The question is how big a bath the government takes. But I don't want to start picking on Tokyo; the problems there are already well known and covered elsewhere.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

californiadreams said:


> That seems like more people than necessary at this early date. I tried looking up more details about staffing for the 2028 committee, but nothing came up. However, the pages for the 2028 and 2024 games at the official olympic.com had images of the two hosts and the vibe of one seems different from the other. One seems slightly friendlier than the other.


I was surprised too when Wassermann no less said it. It's from that address he gave to a UCLA audience. It might be here a few pages back. It does seem awfully bloated at this stage -- but hey, the IOC's paying an extra $900 million, so why not. I think, from what I know of LA's hiring practices, except for some top positions, the middle and lower positions are NOT posted openly. These are based on inside recommendations and people who have LA84 Foundation connections and/or worked on the Special Olympics 2015 Games. And they're all working out of Wassermann' talent agency offices. I am sure, if you know what you want, and you sound like you know the "industry" and its special needs, you can get their attention if you send in your resume this early. 

And a lot of these early positions are putting the LA youth sports programs into effect -- which is what they asked the IOC for the extra "compensation" money; and so it's really a continuation of what the surplus from LA 1984 has been doing; except that with the new infusion of cash from the IOC; the funds from 1984 are not being touched. The new infusion is taking care of that plus paying for the staff which, when actual organizing for the Games begin, I am sure the current staff will switch to that.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Knitemplar said:


> and so it's really a continuation of what the surplus from LA 1984 has been doing; except that with the new infusion of cash from the IOC; the funds from 1984 are not being touched.


That to me is really the most meaningful legacy. City planners, real estate developers, construction firms, landowners and people who associate very general aspects of their city with an Olympics may say otherwise. Those are the ones most likely in the past to have gotten caught up in the carney-barker hype of the games.

This now seems like another era, another world:


























The 2012 bid film was so generalized and non-provincial - probably because London is such an iconic city that the bidders didn't want or need a hard sell - that it's almost like the 2012 committee was promoting a site in Africa or somewhere else far beyond the UK. That's in marked contrast to their opening. They seemed like such a tribute to British pop culture, British music (Spice Girls), British humor (Mr Bean), British cinema (James Bond) and British-British-British (salute to the NHS), that the 2012 people didn't seem to care they were also playing host to the world.








To me the vibe of an event is like Goldilocks and the Three Bears. Too much Papa Bear or too much Mama Bear instead of "just right" Baby Bear.

The 2012 promotion film was too Papa Bear or too Mama Bear. This seems closer to "just right."


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_of_small_differences


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

LOL. Reminds me of my mechanic, who is Croatian. I asked what the difference is between Serbs and Croatians and he said, "nothing really, that's why they hate each other so much".

Same applies for Western culture. Fifty years ago "political culture" was the rage and there were many studies done of what people believe and accept as true as a determination of the nature of their government. It turned out that Americans and European are so close together on everything from ethics, family relations and economics, to details like who should step into the elevator first, that nothing politically useful came out of the studies. There were large differences in the rest of the world however.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> I asked what the difference is between Serbs and Croatians and he said, "nothing really..."


Speaking of which, I thought the sun was generally more alike than different throughout the world, and light quality wasn't too noticeable unless a persons was far to the south or far to the north.

When the "Follow the Sun" motto and the sun-ray angel logo were introduced a few years ago, I thought, cliche and too much been-there, done-that.








But this made me give it a second look:

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-science-and-poetry-of-the-light-in-los-angeles



> In 1998, Lawrence Weschler, a transplant to the East Coast from Los Angeles, wrote for The New Yorker about an aspect of his home town that he missed so much that it could bring tears to his eyes: “That light: the late-afternoon light of Los Angeles—golden pink off the bay through the smog and onto the palm fronds. A light I’ve found myself pining for every day of the nearly two decades since I left Southern California.”


https://underthehollywoodsign.wordpress.com/tag/l-a-glows/



> While it’s true that the variety of architectural styles found in Los Angeles allows “Mad Men,” set in and around New York, to be filmed here, there’s one thing that always gives it away: the light. Simply put, the light in Los Angeles is so different from the light found anywhere else in the world (with one exception; more on that later) that, like a brilliant supporting actor, it steals every scene.
> 
> The last scene of the season finale provides an excellent example. As Don Draper and his children approach his decrepit childhood home in Pennsylvania they throw long, sharply defined shadows on the street. Though it’s possible to throw shadows in the eastern United States in late fall or around the winter solstice, the 40 degree latitude in Pennsylvania would produce shorter shadows, while the weaker light would make them less defined.
> 
> ...


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...g-rumors-that-he-will-come-out-of-retirement/

Looks like UCLA athletic facilities must be pretty good since these guys live on the East Coast and play(ed) for New England.

No indication that they were staying at student housing, however, although I hear it is pretty nice. :lol:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

^ Casey Wasserman said the 2028 games wouldn't be doable without the two main campuses in LA, particularly UCLA.

With all the commotion in getting qualified hosts for the summer games, and my belief they should be rotated among fewer cities -- with a repeat of 2016 being considered a no-no and a repeat of 2012 being considered a "sure, why not again?" -- I thought if London wanted to have a future Olympics (and I'd rather have them or Sydney get the games in the reasonable future than plenty of other cities, including Rio, Athens or Atlanta---except when it came to Billy Payne's ledger sheet), how does the factor of a village make or break a deal?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

If you want to wander off subject and discuss Olympic Villages over the decades, why not post in the general thread? That's why it is there. 

Likewise your favorites for potential future bids can be discussed in the 2032 and 2036 threads; there are vigorous discussions there about those years and future trends. You should join in.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> Likewise your favorites for potential future bids can be discussed in the 2032 and 2036 threads; there are vigorous discussions there about those years and future trends. You should join in.


Probably because the HTML formatting of SSC.com is a mess. Threads don't correctly update, old posts show up as new, new posts don't show up at all. Following any topic here isn't easy because the forum's software has been corrupted.

This topic of 2028 is sort of dead anyway. For me, a lot of posting is strictly rhetorical. It's a solitaire guessing game. The people focusing on 2028 could fit into a dog house with room to spare. 

My own interest grows weak beyond the next three Olympics. Even 2028 is a stretch right now because of what might happen over the next several years.

The apparent early popularity of the Tokyo games, in terms of ticket sales, does show, however, that even in this ago of more high tech, less nationalism, more distractions, more competition and lots of scandals with doping and bribery, the Olympic brand may still be stronger than assumed.


.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

http://www.foxla.com/news/local-new...streets-sidewalks-not-ready-for-2028-olympics

Once more, the Olympics are used as an explanation (or excuse) for spending money. This time it is sidewalks and roads, which are certainly very bad (when you travel from some surrounding cities into LA the change in road quality is similar to driving from the US to Mexico, or Belize to Guatemala).

But, really, what do the repairs have to do with the Olympics? There are millions of visitors every year in any event.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

A lot of normal wear and tear will occur over the next 9 years, including possible big earthquakes. Considering what happened in 1994, 10 years after the 1984 games, I hope such things don't affect eventual preparation for 2028.








https://www.lacoliseum.com/the-mystery-mural/




> *The Mystery Mural*
> 
> July 1, 2019
> 
> ...


https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-coliseum-mural-20190712-story.html


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

I believe at least one of these venues, for water polo, was in Malibu in the 1984 Olympics. Talk about far-flung and overly spread out. Beach volleyball in 2028, however, which didn't exist in 1984, will be held in Santa Monica. So the next games in LA by comparison won't be necessarily super compact.














The mindset not too long ago that locations for an Olympics had to be totally brand new and constantly moving among millions of cities all over the world is a major reason the games have become so bloated and overdone.









Sheesh. SMH.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Yes, Water Polo 1984 was held at Pepperdine Univ. campus in Malibu, also where some 225 out-of-state members of the McDonald's All-American Olympic Marching Band (which did all those intricate Opening Ceremony patterns), stayed.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

^ Last few minutes of this video provides a sense of what the water polo setting in 1984 was like:






Some of that band is seen in this clip:







Although that's over 30 years ago, and the image quality obviously predates HDTV, it's seems not so looong ago compared with images of Olympic games in the 1960s or 1950s, much less 1920s or late 1800s. That's why LA being only the third city to host a games three times, after London and Paris, has to be placed in a different context. Or what I recall Pesto pointing out a few months ago. 

However, images of Tokyo 1964 compared with next year's games - or a span of 56 years - are more parallel with LA 1984 and what I assume will be images in LA 2028, or a span of 44 years.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

http://www.sportspromedia.com/from-...028-la-olympics-salt-lake-commercial-strategy

The amazement of the IOC when they visited LA and spoke with their marketing people is already well known. The good news is that FIFA is learning from this as well, based on the revenue estimates put forward by the United bid. 

Others have, in essence, described it as making the client, the consultants, the media and the host think like a single unit with the goal of making the customer believe that he wants what he is getting. Partly joke; partly serious.


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## Aaron W (Jul 19, 2004)

Perhaps the Angels are just using Long Beach as leverage with Anaheim for a new stadium, but if by chance the Angels did opt to relocate to the Long Beach oceanfront, this would impact the LA 2028 plans for that site. Has there been any discussion on what the LA 2028 organizers would do if they are no longer able to use Long Beach as previously intended? Granted it's still a long way off that a baseball stadium would be approved and under construction in Long Beach, but has there been any discussion covered in any news articles about possible contingencies?


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Aaron W said:


> Perhaps the Angels are just using Long Beach as leverage with Anaheim for a new stadium, but if by chance the Angels did opt to relocate to the Long Beach oceanfront, this would impact the LA 2028 plans for that site. Has there been any discussion on what the LA 2028 organizers would do if they are no longer able to use Long Beach as previously intended? Granted it's still a long way off that a baseball stadium would be approved and under construction in Long Beach, but has there been any discussion covered in any news articles about possible contingencies?


Good question. Of all the sports projected for Long Beach, I think that BMX and/or water polo might be the ones impacted should an Angels Stadium happen in Long Beach. Well, #1 - maybe the Angels Stadium could be adapted for use as the Water Polo venue? 

As for BMX, I am sure the LA 2028 can find an alternate location for that--maybe at the Sepulveda Park course in Encino? Over by Hollywood Park near the Forum and the new American Airlines Ram arena? Or maybe over at the StubHub center in Carson? LA 2028 will find suitable, alternate sites for any sports displaced from the current plan.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

I notice that cricket is likely to be included to the 2028 LA Olympics.

Does anyone know how much additional stadium space this will require? I know there is some flexibility in pitch size but what would be reasonable for something like the Olympics.

There are substantial numbers of Indians, Pakistanis, Brits and Aussies in California. I assume people from various countries will follow their teams to LA.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

pesto said:


> I notice that cricket is likely to be included to the 2028 LA Olympics.
> 
> Does anyone know how much additional stadium space this will require? I know there is some flexibility in pitch size but what would be reasonable for something like the Olympics.
> 
> .


Probably depends on what the Cricket Federation will want or request. I think LA 2028 can come up with enough alternate venues to host "cricket." For example, nothing is planned for UC-Irvine, Pepperdine, Santa Monica College. Maybe it could also share a venue with Equestrian? Or Field Hockey -- on days when those sports are playing.


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## Nacre (May 9, 2016)

Urmstoniain said:


> This summer's Cricket World Cup was a 10 nation event - previously there have been 14 or 16.


Baseball doesn't use 6 team tournaments either and the baseball/softball federation wanted a much larger tournament. The very small number of teams is due to the need of the Olympics to limit the number of athletes competing rather than the desire of the sport.

Individual sports like skateboarding and surfing are much easier to add to the Olympics due to the ease of hosting a tournament with a smaller number of athletes. Which is yet another reason cricket won't appear at Los Angeles 2028.



redspork02 said:


> *Legislative proposal coming from United States Mint on 2028 Olympic coins*
> 
> COIN WORLD Article


Even back in the days when a larger percentage of the population collected coins these things never made much money, and today kids want to own digital rather than physical toys. I gave my nieces silver eagles last month and they just threw them away.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Nacre said:


> Baseball doesn't use 6 team tournaments either and the baseball/softball federation wanted a much larger tournament. The very small number of teams is due to the need of the Olympics to limit the number of athletes competing rather than the desire of the sport.
> 
> Individual sports like skateboarding and surfing are much easier to add to the Olympics due to the ease of hosting a tournament with a smaller number of athletes. Which is yet another reason cricket won't appear at Los Angeles 2028.
> 
> ...


What is a coin? :lol:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.latimes.com/sports/stor...es-to-extend-deadline-on-olympic-negotiations

This probably fits in the category of non-news, but it’s nice that things are proceeding and no one is shouting or crying about how much they have to pay.

Hopefully the city just focuses on clearing vagabonds, street repair, finishing 2 or 3 key subways and keeping the special interest groups from demanding billions for their causes.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://tv5.espn.com/esports/story/...ts-entertainment-expands-esports-front-office

Whose got time for football with yuppies, flexible suite options and now esports? Kroenke’s esports teams are expanding in Inglewood and, no surprise will use the event venue at LASED.

There has been serious talk about including epsorts in the 2024 Olympics. Interesting to see how the LA Committee will take to that idea. China and Korea are currently the biggest markets but Southern California is developing as a center as well (given the numbers of Chinese and Koreans and game companies it seems to make sense).

Not a sport in my opinion, but the money is so big that the Olympics must be tempted.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://knock-la.com/why-did-casey-...2028-vote-in-2017-cfb6dc19533?gi=7936fe6df82d

A recent article from the goofy left explaining all about LA, corruption and the Olympics. Or, more correctly, not explaining anything.

Its argument is nonsense, but it is a nice intro to the “history” (which is to say rumors and complete inventions) of Casey’s grandfather Lew, who was a major player in Hollywood business and politics. 

I somehow doubt that Casey is really in the same mold with the guy who reputedly “made” Ronald Reagan while supporting left-wing causes and working with the mafia all his life. 

But, hey, that’s showbiz! Nice to see that the Golden Age is still remembered.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanoh...arge-ev-use-ahead-of-2028-games/#4303b47b37e7

Me too! Me too! Garcetti decides it’s time to take attention away from high taxes, decaying city and inefficiency by falling in love with electric cars (but setting the targets for long after he is gone as mayor, which is classic political strategy). 

Of course, if you really love Mother Earth, you wouldn’t hold an Olympics at all. At the very least you would ban all attendance at the events and require the athletes to arrive by zero emission means, not private airplanes and limousines.

Or could it be that like Hidalgo he’s just a puppet being jerked around by the hospitality interests and needs to say something to keep the left appeased. Hmmm, could be.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

http://aroundtherings.com/site/A__7...nb-x-Olympics-Global-Partnership/292/Articles

The two week long Olympics and archfiend Airbnb will bring housing shortages as Paris Mayor Hidalgo has so insightfully argued; but it will also bring gentrification, police brutality, environmental destruction, corruption and athlete abuse. 

I’m not sure why Hidalgo is covering up all these other problems but fortunately the LA activists have exposed them.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.latimes.com/california/...o-rail-projects-budget-problems-2028-olympics

MTA has been incompetent for decades and now Garcetti has tied them into the Olympics by saying that a bunch of projects are needed for the Olympics. Unfortunately the cost of completing them is hideously high, transit use is declining all around the US, and the MTA proposes to bring in private "funders" which in effect means even higher costs, debt service and pay-back periods.

This is typical LA mismanagement. But I mention it here because if people get the impression that the Olympics caused it, there could be a backlash against the Games as well as against those who say that they way to fix it is to spend more money.


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## Nacre (May 9, 2016)

pesto said:


> MTA has been incompetent for decades and now Garcetti has tied them into the Olympics by saying that a bunch of projects are needed for the Olympics. Unfortunately the cost of completing them is hideously high, transit use is declining all around the US, and the MTA proposes to bring in private "funders" which in effect means even higher costs, debt service and pay-back periods.


This isn't really accurate.

1) The cost of building public transit is lower than the cost of building a comparable capacity of more freeways. And more importantly the maintenance costs are MUCH lower.

2) Transit use is increasing in many cities around the USA.

3) The purpose of using the private sector to deliver public services is to decrease costs and public sector debt. I don't think it is a great idea (the government can usually get lower interest rates on loans and has the advantage of economies of scale) but one thing the private sector does better than government is efficiency.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Nacre said:


> This isn't really accurate.
> 
> 1) The cost of building public transit is lower than the cost of building a comparable capacity of more freeways. And more importantly the maintenance costs are MUCH lower.
> 
> ...


Agree the private sector is more efficient WHEN WORKING FOR THE PRIVATE SECTOR. Their costs are higher but this is offset by greater expertise and efficiency. I might agree to use them if a few thousand administrators were laid off. But what's happening here is that employees known to be incompetent are being kept AND politicians pay their political donors super-premium profits in addition. So the cost is even higher.

Transit is rising in many US cities; but it is plummeting in many large ones, including LA, in spite of completion of new lines. When people find even the lowest paying jobs they immediately get a car and thank the Lord they don't have to use Metro. The Times, Urbanize, Curbed LA and many others have been covering this effect for years.

Freeway are not needed. Transit minimally affects freeway traffic since (as frequently documented) people won't take transit if they have ANY alternative. What can be done is stop building in the boonies (political and union payoffs) and find "first/last mile" solutions in dense areas.

BUT: in any event the post here was regarding the excuse that anti-Olympic groups will have to fight the Olympics if they become associated with the upcoming debacle of costs that MTA is talking about.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://us.fashionnetwork.com/news/...or-for-los-angeles-2028-olympics,1076466.html

Nike means victory. Even if you have to buy it.


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## Kenni (Jul 26, 2007)

That is a great start. Thanks Nike.

About public transportation, it spiked a few years ago, I don't know how low it has gotten now, or if its just a projection. I will say this tho, maybe a third of actual users are jumping the fare. I see it every day. 

They simply open the emergency gate and walk in, and you would think that only hood rats do it. Nope, you'd be surprised. MTA is not doing a good job with fare enforcement.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Kenni said:


> That is a great start. Thanks Nike.
> 
> About public transportation, it spiked a few years ago, I don't know how low it has gotten now, or if its just a projection. I will say this tho, maybe a third of actual users are jumping the fare. I see it every day.
> 
> They simply open the emergency gate and walk in, and you would think that only hood rats do it. Nope, you'd be surprised. MTA is not doing a good job with fare enforcement.


I don't see transit as an issue and I hope Garcetti doesn't make it one by trying to panic the voters into more taxes for more lines to nowhere. 

The important lines are Purple, Red, Expo and Crenshaw. These connect the main hotel and tourist areas with Olympic sites (DT, Ktown, Hollywood, SaMo, Westwood, Inglewood, WeHo, NoHo). Other lines are useful as well but not to the same degree. 

I assume there will be shuttles to Carson or other remote venues. But given the low cost of renting a car I would suggest that 3 or 4 people do that and see SD, Laguna, Newport, Malibu, local mountain trails, Santa Barbara, etc. Or, Sequoia, Kings Canyon and Yosemite and go world class in scenery and hiking; or Carmel, Monterey and Big Sur, 4 hours north.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.hub-la.com/news/los-angeles-bus-fleet-to-become-zero-emissions-by-2028-olympics/

Concerned about global warming, heat injury to athletes and spectators, etc., Mayor Garcetti finds something “eco-friendly” to talk about. Details as to specifics like feasibility, budget effects, etc., to be worked out by various committees, the MTA and subsequent mayor.

I'm not sure why the Olympics is relevant to this; why not set the target for 2026 or 2027? The sooner the better, right? 

Btw, I have always like the sound of “issued an executive order”. It sounds like someone is taking forceful action on a serious issue and is done for good with the obstructionism of laggards, fools and downright enemies of the people, who are complicit in ignoring the public good.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://ktla.com/2020/02/13/trump-t...0-olympics-briefing-beverly-hills-fundraiser/

The Prez comes to LA to get briefed on how Olympic planning is going among other things.

He is also hitting Larry Ellison’s place in Rancho Mirage to see if he can beat Obama’s score at Larry’s private golf club. :lol:


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

The Pres. signs a federal/local agreement of security assistance between Dept. of Homeland and LAOOC. 
Officially designating the LA-28 a "National Special Security Event".

President Trump confirms government will assist L.A. during 2028 Olympics 

Here's the presser at the Montage Hotel in Beverly Hills. 
If you care to listen to his lies..... he takes credit for winning the bid. 
And again attacks Pres. Obama. etc.. etc.. etc..
Pres. narcissist.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

redspork02 said:


> The Pres. signs a federal/local agreement of security assistance between Dept. of Homeland and LAOOC.
> Officially designating the LA-28 a "National Special Security Event".
> 
> President Trump confirms government will assist L.A. during 2028 Olympics
> ...


https://nolympicsla.com/

https://nolympicsla.com/2020/01/22/what-is-a-national-special-security-event-nsse/

And that's not the half of it. See the above for what really happens to the poor, people of color and members of the informal economy when an NSSE is declared. LA must stand up as one and fight!


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## slipperydog (Jul 19, 2009)

Meh, as Trump normally goes, that presser was pretty mild.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

What are the odds on President Trump declaring the Games open? :shifty:


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## slipperydog (Jul 19, 2009)

RobH said:


> What are the odds on President Trump declaring the Games open? :shifty:


Due to term limits, he wouldn't be able to do that as sitting President.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

I suppose it's possible that Trump loses this time and then is elected in 2024. But seems unlikely, especially if Bernie gets the nomination. 

Bernie will be pushing 90 and Biden late 80's so we may have to go with someone new. Hillary? She will only be 80. :lol:


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## slipperydog (Jul 19, 2009)

pesto said:


> I suppose it's possible that Trump loses this time and then is elected in 2024. But seems unlikely, especially if Bernie gets the nomination.
> 
> Bernie will be pushing 90 and Biden late 80's so we may have to go with someone new. Hillary? She will only be 80. :lol:


2028 is a long time away. Could actually be Garcetti for all we know.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

slipperydog said:


> 2028 is a long time away. Could actually be Garcetti for all we know.


For all we know. At least he would know how to get to SoFi on Metro. :lol:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.thenation.com/article/society/los-angeles-olympics-trump/

An article from the democratic socialists noting the tie-in between Clinton, Trump and Garcetti and their billionaire friends to make more money at the cost of working class lives. Etc., etc. I am a bit confused about their stand on the homeless but that’s off subject.

It would be interesting to hear how Bernie and Bloomberg feel about LA 2028 since one of them might actually be President then.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericro...sa-and-sponsor-of-2028-la-games/#3cddd553bc2d

Delta becomes a sponsor for the US Olympics team and LA Olympics. This makes sense for Delta who is in a continuous battle with American to be the biggest at LAX (with Southwestern and United not far behind). 

It's also interesting that the deal covers 8 years of strategic tie-ins with Olympics ventures with a focus on Los Angeles and on exploring new media capabilities.

This comes after American has already grabbed naming rights for the SoFi Stadium main plaza and will presumably get some “air time” on the stadium canopy as airplanes come into LAX. After landing, Delta takes over with “The OFFICIAL Airlines of the Los Angeles Olympics” signage.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

pesto said:


> https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericro...sa-and-sponsor-of-2028-la-games/#3cddd553bc2d


From the article:



> According to the L.A. Times, Delta signed a $400-million deal to become a sponsor of the 2028 games along with being designated the official airline of U.S. athletes attending the Olympics and Paralympics beginning in January 2021. That means participants will fly Delta to Beijing in 2022, Paris in 2024, Milan-Cortina in 2026 and Los Angeles in 2028. The airline takes over this mantle from United, which was the official airline for U.S. Olympic teams for 40 years.


Casey Wasserman has said that LA2028's goal was to secure $2.5 Billion in domestic sponsorships for the games. Even keeping in mind that this sponsorship is for USA Olympics as well, this one Delta deal puts them at over 15% of their goal with 8 years to go. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if they smash their revenue projections by the time summer of 2028 rolls around!


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

aquamaroon said:


> From the article:
> 
> 
> 
> Casey Wasserman has said that LA2028's goal was to secure $2.5 Billion in domestic sponsorships for the games. Even keeping in mind that this sponsorship is for USA Olympics as well, this one Delta deal puts them at over 15% of their goal with 8 years to go. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if they smash their revenue projections by the time summer of 2028 rolls around!


Yes. The opportunity for other Games to benefit is created by their being allowed into the LA process of sponsor identification, partnering and project development. Many of these ventures provide launching points for those events to develop focused marketing plans of their own. This was what really knocked the socks off the IOC and made them rethink their approach to marketing.

Now the Olympics, FIFA, etc., have adopted the strategy of early selection and long ramp-ups so as to provide cohesive marketing approaches.

And by analogy, SoFi has gone even further. It didn't just buy the right to put its name on a stadium sign. It will try to integrate its products and services into the lifestyle of those who enjoy visiting the stadium and are interested in similar products and events worldwide. They hope to create a long-term relationship.

In retrospect, would any of this have happened if only Paris had been chosen? Or if Morocco had been chosen over United? Wouldn't it have constituted gross dereliction of duty for the IOC or FIFA (or any management group) to allow something like that to happen when there are such exciting opportunities when working with the right people?


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Some Progress on the Olympic Village. (UCLA Student Housing).

Progress Report for UCLA's $870M Student Housing Expansion


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

redspork02 said:


> Some Progress on the Olympic Village. (UCLA Student Housing).
> 
> Progress Report for UCLA's $870M Student Housing Expansion


Doing work!

For orientation, the main campus dorms and sports facilities are just behind the camera and the new subway stop will be between the two white midrise buildings near the middle.

The new SoFi Stadium (NFL Rams and Chargers, Olympics, etc.) is right behind the hills in the distance.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

pesto said:


> https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericro...sa-and-sponsor-of-2028-la-games/#3cddd553bc2d
> 
> *Delta* becomes a sponsor for the US Olympics team and LA Olympics. This makes sense for Delta who is


:drool:



parcdesprinces said:


> *(aahh Delta...sweet memories for me personally*... & such a glorious era for the whole planet back then..90s & earlier (IMHO))
> 
> 
> parcdesprinces (in SSC-France years ago) said:
> ...


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

aquamaroon said:


> Also from Urbanize.la, the Exposition Park Master Plan was rolled out recently, of which the Lucas Museum is of course an integral part. The whole article is worth a read if you are interested, in the meantime here are the renders of what Expo Park will look like after the construction of the Lucas Museum and new Air and Space wing of the California Science Center, hopefully all in time for the 2028 Olympics:


nice


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

Other items clearing the Los Angeles 2028 bid.

The Clippers owner has killed the conflict of building a new Arena for the team that was presented by the Forum by purchasing the Forum. So another arena should be made available on the Private dime for LA2028 to lease for the games.

The Angels should secure a deal to stay in Anaheim which may result in a significantly upgraded Ballpark and grounds and may include upto a new ballpark.

Metro is making advances on the Measure M projects with the Regional Connector, Crenshaw Line, Gold Line Extension, Rapid Transit Lines in the Valley and likely Vermont Ave prior to 2028. Less likely, but still reported as a goal include the Sepulveda Pass Line and a portion (or the complete line) of the Artesia Line. It's important to note that Los Angeles does not require the transportation upgrades to host the 2028 Games and that all Transportation funds were secured by voter approved tax starting as early as 2008 and as late as 2016, before Los Angeles was awarded the 2028 Games.

FInally, it looks like Covid-19 will be around for a while and I think it's reasonable to say a postponement of Tokyo 2020 is devastating to Tokyo. Also, damages should be expected at Beijing 2022 as the effects of Covid-19 are expected to continue through 2020 and 2021 worldwide. Postponing Tokyo 2020 to 2021 will have an immediate effect on Paris 2024 advertising/marketing revenues as the unprecedented move of postponing Tokyo 1 year will result in an overlap and competition for the same bucks.

Being that Italy has taken 2026 I think it's safe to say Los Angeles will once again redefine, and save, the Olympic Movement.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

The important transit (Crenshaw and Purple) will be done; the rest is immaterial for the Olympics. Next is to convince people to use the subway; I certainly won't as long as the bums, druggies and seriously ill are allowed to use it to do their thing.

Angels stadium and Clippers Arena should be good (and LB Arena and others are being spruced up) but there are only so many you need. Maybe drop LB for more in Inglewood?


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## Nacre (May 9, 2016)

RuFFy said:


> Being that Italy has taken 2026 I think it's safe to say Los Angeles will once again redefine, and save, the Olympic Movement.


You forgot to mention that LA 2028 will also cure cancer and transform **** sapiens into **** novus.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Nacre said:


> You forgot to mention that LA 2028 will also cure cancer and transform **** sapiens into **** novus.


Indeed. 😄

LA will exploit the existing model more efficiently and ruthlessly than any city before it; more private money, less public money, more existing venues, less to build. They're squeezing it till the pips come out. What they are not doing is revolutionising it. The 2032 hosts and beyond aren't going to suddenly have a new way of doing things thanks to LA.

What 2028 (and to an extent 2024) will provide will be a palate cleanser after a few large-scale Summer Games; a little reminder that you don't have to go enormous to be a success.

But it's not anti-LA28 to push back against the 'save the world' narrative coming from a few of that Games' more excitable backers. The Games will be an enormous success on its own terms without the need for hyperbole.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> Indeed. 😄
> 
> LA will exploit the existing model more efficiently and ruthlessly than any city before it; more private money, less public money, more existing venues, less to build. They're squeezing it till the pips come out. What they are not doing is revolutionising it. The 2032 hosts and beyond aren't going to suddenly have a new way of doing things thanks to LA.
> 
> ...


It's not a save the world narrative; it's a save the Olympics narrative and is quite accurate. I won't repeat it, it's above. The IOC was stunned at seeing the LA bid; extended their visits; and sent the Paris delegation to LA to meet with the LA media marketing people; they then told the other potential bidders to get lost.


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## Nacre (May 9, 2016)

That is not due to the LA bid being superlative. Most of LA's individual sports venues are not very good. The rowing venue is actually noncompliant with rowing's requirements, for example. And while LA does not need to build an Olympic village thanks to the dormitories at USC and UCLA, that is not something other cities can learn from.

What LA has done is to bid again, and again, and again. Whenever the sporting federations have had power they have said no to Los Angeles. 6 out of the 6 times LA has bid and the IOC has voted between multiple cities LA has lost. What has made Los Angeles successful is not some inherent superiority or superior wisdom but 1) the good luck to have USC and 2) getting the IOC to award them the games three times without an actual vote in which the sporting federations would campaign against LA's venue plan. Neither of those things is a teachable lesson for other cities.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

pesto said:


> It's not a save the world narrative; it's a save the Olympics narrative and is quite accurate. I won't repeat it, it's above. The IOC was stunned at seeing the LA bid; extended their visits; and sent the Paris delegation to LA to meet with the LA media marketing people; they then told the other potential bidders to get lost.


"You could learn from LA's marketing" does not equal "LA is saving the Olympics". As if the World's most visited city and the World's most famous sporting institution combining would've been a marketing flop otherwise! 😂 The IOC has constant learning programmes between host cities; they're actually built into the cycle. LA28 will be visiting Paris as part of their learning too.

And the reason they told the other bidders to "get lost" was simple - they didn't want to lose LA _*or*_ Paris. They figured going through the normal motions would leave one of them feeling like a sore loser, unlikely to bid again. So they selected both and told the other bidders to get lost. With just one or the other bidding, we'd have seen a normal bidding process for 2024. It was the presence of both - not of LA - that lead to the change.

Yes, LA has much to offer, and has things other cities can learn from I'm sure. It is not "saving the Olympics" though. 😂


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> "You could learn from LA's marketing" does not equal "LA is saving the Olympics". As if the World's most visited city and the World's most famous sporting institution combining would've been a marketing flop otherwise! 😂 The IOC has constant learning programmes between host cities; they're actually built into the cycle. LA28 will be visiting Paris as part of their learning too.
> 
> And the reason they told the other bidders to "get lost" was simple - they didn't want to lose LA _*or*_ Paris. They figured going through the normal motions would leave one of them feeling like a sore loser, unlikely to bid again. So they selected both and told the other bidders to get lost. With just one or the other bidding, we'd have seen a normal bidding process for 2024. It was the presence of both - not of LA - that lead to the change.
> 
> Yes, LA has much to offer, and has things other cities can learn from I'm sure. It is not "saving the Olympics" though. 😂


You are straining to disagree. Paris had been repeatedly humiliated and there was never any doubt they were going to be selected. Baumann pointedly told the 2028 bidders that LA was the best bid they had ever seen and that the other possible bidders did not rise to the level of being considered. 

In any event, the LA deal was nothing like Paris or any other. Andrew Zimbalist, an outspoken critic of the wastes of Olympic bids has said LA got a great deal (instead of the usual hosing) from the IOC. Probably a billion in payments at the end of the day, including LA's commitment to assist the newly developing Asian cities that will dominate the Olympic future.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

It was clear by 2017 the IOC really wanted Paris and LA, hence they changed the rules to select both. It's certainly arguable on a technical level LA was the most complete (and certainly least risky) bid the IOC had seen. I'll happily give you that. But the argument you're straining to make is that LA is "saving the Olympics", which I think verges on the laughable tbh.

LA28 is not doing much new, it is not a paradigm shift in the way LA84 was; it's just doing things very, very efficiently within the existing model. Its efforts will not change the organisational or financial approaches the 2032/36/40 hosts must take, whichever cities they happen to be.

If this is really what LA thinks of itself maybe its slogan should be MOGA. All its supporters will lap it up and buy the caps whilst the rest of the world looks on a little bemused. 😉


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## GunnerJacket (Jan 25, 2008)

Let's reign it back in please, gents.


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## Nacre (May 9, 2016)

EDIT: deleted after seeing Gunner Jacket's post.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

GunnerJacket said:


> Let's reign it back in please, gents.


Rain, rein, reign. Will it never end?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> It was clear by 2017 the IOC really wanted Paris and LA, hence they changed the rules to select both. It's certainly arguable on a technical level LA was the most complete (and certainly least risky) bid the IOC had seen. I'll happily give you that. But the argument you're straining to make is that LA is "saving the Olympics", which I think verges on the laughable tbh.
> 
> LA28 is not doing much new, it is not a paradigm shift in the way LA84 was; it's just doing things very, very efficiently within the existing model. Its efforts will not change the organisational or financial approaches the 2032/36/40 hosts must take, whichever cities they happen to be.
> 
> If this is really what LA thinks of itself maybe its slogan should be MOGA. All its supporters will lap it up and buy the caps whilst the rest of the world looks on a little bemused. 😉


Well, there is going to be a considerable amount written and broadcast over the next few years elaborating LA's new paradigm and its effect on the Asian bidders being groomed. No rush to discuss it here, although it is a pretty interesting story of how media, PR and rational management have evolved and continue to evolve.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> But the argument you're straining to make is that LA is "saving the Olympics", which I think verges on the laughable tbh.



I'd only make a claim like that about any Olympic games after they've come and gone, even more so when they're so many years into the future. What's that saying? Don't count your chickens before they've hatched?

However, for the summer games that were supposed to have been held this year, I'm disappointed that Tokyo decided it had to stick with the big-money, spend-spend-spend formula, Or more like a Rio 2016. And all for what?

The last summer games are now long over, and its big budget seems even more foolhardy. Rio had issues unique to Brazil, and now Tokyo has issues unique to SARS-CoV-2.

I liked the thought of seeing the 2020 games centered in the same stadium used in 1964. I was hoping some fiscal sanity and long-lost charm would return to the games hosted by Tokyo. But even without a pandemic, the 2020 organizers were treading the same "all this for what?!" spendthrift formula.

The IOC should stop with the travelust policy of going all over the world and reserve the summer games for a fewer number of cities. There was talk of even London holding the 2020 games if Tokyo couldn't, and I think cities like Sydney instead of Melbourne should entry the fray. .


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> I'd only make a claim like that about any Olympic games after they've come and gone, even more so when they're so many years into the future. What's that saying? Don't count your chickens before they've hatched?
> 
> However, for the summer games that were supposed to have been held this year, I'm disappointed that Tokyo decided it had to stick with the big-money, spend-spend-spend formula, Or more like a Rio 2016. And all for what?
> 
> ...


This reminds be of 1980 or so when hardware ruled the world. Some predicted s/w was going to become big and were laughed at.

You seem to be privileging the past, as we often do here. In the next 30-50 years the largest cities in the world are all going to be in Asia or Africa and they will be growing faster and making lifestyle choices. The consensus is that by 2060 Europe won't have any in the top 50 and the US will maybe have NY and LA. 

So a 5 city rotation could be: 2 in Africa, 2 in Asia; 1 all others


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Ranma Saotome said:


> May 14
> 
> Click to enlarge:
> 
> ...


Seats going in...……...Ready to go. (I hope).

The more issues plague each city. Costs. Security. White Elephants, Tax payers revolts. THe IOC should consider countries that are willing to rotate the games.
But Also leave a possibility that if a willing city proposes to host a games (within reasonbale time) outside the rotating countries, it should be allowed to bid.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

This might give some perspective: the top 50 cities in a 2050-70 time frame. Population 30-70M

Kinshasa, Mumbai, Lagos, Delhi, Dacca, Calcutta, Karachi, Dar es Salaam, Cairo, Manila, Kabul, Khartoum, Shanghai, Sao Paolo, Lahore, then mostly more African and Asian cities.

So IOC chooses 4 from this list to develop and rotate as Olympic hosts, and occasionally a wild card from the midsized pool of cities with 20-40M people. No European cities make the cut; NY and a few Latin Americans do.

Is this what we have in mind?


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

Nacre said:


> That is not due to the LA bid being superlative. Most of LA's individual sports venues are not very good. The rowing venue is actually noncompliant with rowing's requirements, for example. And while LA does not need to build an Olympic village thanks to the dormitories at USC and UCLA, that is not something other cities can learn from.
> 
> What LA has done is to bid again, and again, and again. Whenever the sporting federations have had power they have said no to Los Angeles. 6 out of the 6 times LA has bid and the IOC has voted between multiple cities LA has lost. What has made Los Angeles successful is not some inherent superiority or superior wisdom but 1) the good luck to have USC and 2) getting the IOC to award them the games three times without an actual vote in which the sporting federations would campaign against LA's venue plan. Neither of those things is a teachable lesson for other cities.


Actually, what has made LA’s bid better is precisely wisdom and superiority. And quite frankly using what you have, on the private dime, IS the way to do it. It’s something the entire world could learn.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> Is this what we have in mind?



Not for me. That would be setting up the IOC for an even bigger world of hurt. Future games probably would be an even more chaotic version of Rio 2016. Those summer games really nailed home to me the ridiculousness of a host city spending way too much money for a 2-week-long sporting event. All that for an athletic competition that did absolutely nothing - at least to me - in enhancing the image of the host city and country. Not to mention the Olympics themselves.

A successful summer games should want to have (a) good attendance, (b) good spirit, (c) good organization (including non-flaky ceremonies), (d) decent facilities and a (e) sane budget. The quality of athletic competition is generally beyond the host's control, at least if an organizing committee can prevent boycotts. Or what happened in 1984. 

It's hard to have all those things together, so weakness in one of the categories will be hopefully offset by strengths in another. If 2016 came and went without a lot of red ink, that alone would be less of a "do'h!---BS!" of those games. .


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

You are still looking backwards. For the first 100 years the Olympics meant Europe and Europeanized cities. The managers were a small clique of aristocrats or cultured billionaires and the athletes were mandatorily amateurs.

Over the last 50 years economic reality caught up. Professionals were allowed in and pubic interest boomed. The driving forces became media and tourist industries who profit from the Games. The purpose of the IOC was to spread the wealth around among the in-group of cities, generally soaking as much as possible from local taxpayers while staying out of flagrant trouble.

The recent change is to get rid of the old-boys, who are not only not needed, but a hindrance to really large sums of money being generated and used for some actual public benefit. The result will be a shift to the HUGE markets opening in the 3rd world. Growth numbers that are staggering and must be exploited as soon as possible since everyone is going after them.

It also has a sense of fairness about it. It is supposed to be a world competition. The idea is not to freeze India or Indonesia or Africa out; the idea is to encourage them to learn the skills, plan and build wisely, develop the infrastructure, and allow them help themselves while helping the IOC to get access to their markets.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

I still think in the cases of South Africa and India the IOC will want to see them host successful mid-sized multi-sport events first. They didn't go for Rio until they'd seen the 2007 PanAms come and go successfully. The badly mismanaged 2010 Commonwealth Games in Delhi (not to mention the subsequent repeated suspensions of the Indian NOC, court cases, imprisonments etc) and the aborted Durban 2022 Games are awkward marks against these countries at the moment.

Of course the IOC will be eyeing up these markets, but rushing in would be the worst thing for both sides.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> I still think in the cases of South Africa and India the IOC will want to see them host successful mid-sized multi-sport events first. They didn't go for Rio until they'd seen the 2007 PanAms come and go successfully. The badly mismanaged 2010 Commonwealth Games in Delhi (not to mention the subsequent repeated suspensions of the Indian NOC, court cases, imprisonments etc) and the aborted Durban 2022 Games are awkward marks against these countries at the moment.
> 
> Of course the IOC will be eyeing up these markets, but rushing in would be the worst thing for both sides.


Agree completely. That’s why the new emphasis is on the IOC approaching cities which appear to have long-term potential and developing them over a decade or two.

I didn’t want to bring this up in the Paris thread but, hey, it’s Saturday and things are slow.









Paris 2024 Olympics plans 'obsolete' - IOC member Drut - France 24


Paris 2024 Olympics plans 'obsolete' - IOC member Drut




www.france24.com





A French IOC member has recently admitted that the Paris 2024 plans are obsolete and suggesting that Olympic events be limited and some events be staged at a “permanent” site so that host cities don’t need so much spending on facilities.

He somehow tied this to Corona, but I suspect the real point is that Europeans are very aware of the costs that the Olympics foist on their cities and are not in a mood to spend.

His number 1 priority: reassess the costs of the Paris Olympics. This is a whiff of “old model” vs. “new model”. If the costs don’t make sense, the response is to jettison the event or move it to someplace where it does make sense. That is new model thinking.


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## Nacre (May 9, 2016)

RuFFy said:


> Actually, what has made LA’s bid better is precisely wisdom and superiority. And quite frankly using what you have, on the private dime, IS the way to do it. It’s something the entire world could learn.


Using existing facilities only works if someone else has built those facilities before. LA has absolutely nothing to teach other cities like New York or Chicago because those cities simply do not have huge universities like UCLA and USC. Unless the LA 1984 and 2028 organizers are time travelers who helped create USC and UCLA back in the 1800's they do not deserve any credit for LA having those facilities.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> You are still looking backwards. For the first 100 years the Olympics meant Europe and Europeanized cities. The managers were a small clique of aristocrats or cultured billionaires and the athletes were mandatorily amateurs.



So are the IOC and Tokyo as of the past year or so. 

I thought - and was hoping - one or both would stop with the spendthrift mentality for 2020, but they didn't. 

Even more so in today's era, Japan doesn't need to act like it's coming out to the world as though it's a young debutante. That wasn't the case over 50 years ago. The 1964 games were held a mere 20 years (actually a bit less) since the end of WWII. The comparatively sane, modest budget of those games and their non-anime-hokey flash were a bit more appropriate for an Olympics than the mess of, by contrast, 2016. Or 2004, etc.

If I'm stuck in the past, yea, guilty as charged.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> A French IOC member has recently admitted that the Paris 2024 plans are obsolete and suggesting that Olympic events be limited and some events be staged at a “permanent” site so that host cities don’t need so much spending on facilities.
> 
> He somehow tied this to Corona, but I suspect the real point is that Europeans are very aware of the costs that the Olympics foist on their cities and are not in a mood to spend.
> 
> His number 1 priority: reassess the costs of the Paris Olympics. This is a whiff of “old model” vs. “new model”. If the costs don’t make sense, the response is to jettison the event or move it to someplace where it does make sense. That is new model thinking.



The 2024 games are supposed to have less of a bloated budget too. But look at how many projects - all over the world - have a way of costing a lot more than originally projected. 

The way things are now, if the organizing committee in France makes the mistakes of the committee in Tokyo, I say switch the games to the place across the channel. And if the housing for the 2012 games can't be resurrected, ditch the Olympic village concept altogether and go with the Airbnb model. 

That would have been said with more sarcasm than seriousness in the past. But not today. Not in a world affected by Covid-19, health-wise and economy-wise..


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Indeed, there's an enormous amount of doublethink going on here. We're told LA is better prepared to host an Olympics than any other city on earth (that's something I largely agree with).

You can't be both uniquely placed to host an Olympics and - just by virtue of that - say you're providing a model for other cities which don't have your inbuilt/inherited advantages!










For anyone to believe LA is a new model (as opposed to a very efficient expoiation of the existing one), we have to answer one question: How will the 2032 host approach things differently - _in a way they weren't able to otherwise_ - thanks to LA 2028.

Aside from a bit of knowledge transfer, nobody has yet given any answer to this.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> Of course the IOC will be eyeing up these markets, but rushing in would be the worst thing for both sides.



It Pesto's prediction or suggestion for the IOC comes to pass, then they'll have to both politically and financially reign themselves in. Politically they're doing more and more of that. For example, I read that the NFL (another sports group affected by bigger cultural trends) is trying to give teams a leg up for hiring black coaches.

However, from a money standpoint, the IOC is still way too much into champagne, caviar and the high life. And that's without any corruption often padding a lot of that..


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> For anyone to believe LA is a new model (as opposed to a very efficient expoiation of the existing one), we have to answer one question: .



That's why I like the idea of sticking with the true-and-tried. Since Sydney 2000 and London 2012 were generally successful, popular games, the idea of using them as repeat locations makes sense to me. Look at the way the IOC has just about been forced to do that with Beijing 2008 and 2022.

The Olympics are supposed to be a quadrennial sporting event, not a quadrennial travelogue or convention-tourist-airline-and-hotel event.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Nacre said:


> Using existing facilities only works if someone else has built those facilities before. LA has absolutely nothing to teach other cities like New York or Chicago because those cities simply do not have huge universities like UCLA and USC. Unless the LA 1984 and 2028 organizers are time travelers who helped create USC and UCLA back in the 1800's they do not deserve any credit for LA having those facilities.


You are still stuck on "old think". If NY or Chicago can't find resources for housing, then they should disperse athletes into smaller villages near their events. Or simply not host the Olympics. 

That many cities face that problem is the reason the IOC is thinking about multi-city hosting and limitation of number of events. It seems that no one believes the old model is working.

Just as a side note, it is not that LA invented the new model; but it has pulled together the logistic, economic, marketing and technical aspects into their bid in a way that no one has done before. The IOC has commented on that at great length.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

This adds a bit re the IOC process for Paris:









LANE ONE: Bach asks for “frugal Games” in Tokyo; what can be learned from the ultimate “frugal” organizers in Los Angeles four decades ago? - The Sports Examiner


For those of a certain age, who lived through a prior crisis that threatened the existence of the Olympic Games, it was simply staggering to hear International Olympic Committee President Thomas Bach of Germany talk about the future relevance of the Olympic Games during an online teleconference...




www.thesportsexaminer.com





To quote Bach directly:

Re the Tokyo 2021 Games: “You know, we were discussing this among us, and I think I mentioned it at the beginning, to say, that we want to have – we want this Olympic Games – to be frugal Games, concentrating on the essentials, and the spirit and the message of the Olympic Games.”

Re the Paris 2024 Games: “We are in discussion concerning this question with Paris 2024. As we are in discussion with Paris 2024, on a wider scope, already, what can be transferred, maybe, from the new measures we take for Tokyo; also to Paris ‘24. So, how can Paris ‘24 benefit from this new approach there in line with Olympic Agenda 2020 and in line with the New Norm, and where we are – as I said in this Olympism and Corona message – now already in a new phase of looking into a new reduction of costs, or better said, focusing on the essentials of the Games. So you can see this, the question you are raising, in this wider context.”

Summarizing, Bach says that Tokyo is being reduced and made more frugal; they are already talking about reductions in Paris; they will also implement the Tokyo reductions in Paris. The goals are frugality, removing “nice” things and focusing on essentials.

This message sound pretty consistent with what the world is expecting: a better use of taxpayer resources in a time of other social needs.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Hmmm....if you think Bach is taking about cutting out events in Tokyo/Paris or anything properly dramatic that will hugely reduce spending (i.e. the things you want to see) I suspect you're going to be disappointed. Bach's words could just as easily apply to the changes Estanguet is taking about. There are no specifics from either Bach or Drut. The former being so vague any change would count as frugality, the latter calling for Revolution but with no solutions as to how this can happen, knowing he's not the one who'll have to do anything.

Absent of any other evidence, it's Politician Talk.

With Tokyo the big ticket costs have already been spent. We know from past Games it's permanent construction and security that are the big spends. The former is more or less complete, the latter is unavoidable. So they've only got the hosting left, which is generally profitable on its own terms. If you've spent the money to build the theatre, is cutting the play going to help? Again, I suspect in Tokyo's case it'll be unsexy, back-of-house changes that the IOC sees as dramatic, but you won't.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

Realistically, for Tokyo, this is catastrophic. It’s catastrophic for Beijing 2022 and is going to spill over to Paris 2024. While by 2026 the rest of the world will probably have moved on, those games have been entrusted to Italy. I don’t think most need a crystal ball to see what’s going to happen here and how the conversation will be a little tumultuous for the next few years for the IOC. And I’m wondering how “essentials” will play into the LA2028 narrative. Crazy how the cards get shook, and when house comes falling down the end point is the same for the IOC. LA. LA is the model cities should be following. Bidding again, and again, and again, with bids that fit the city and not bids for the IOC and the IF’s on taxpayer dollars.


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## GunnerJacket (Jan 25, 2008)

*Mod Note:* Non-political discussions about the 2021 Tokyo games belong here.
Non-political discussions about the 2024 Paris games go here.
Feel free to discuss bids about the 2032 games here.
If you want to simply bash the politics of the IOC (or FIFA) there's an old thread for such buried somewhere on this site or feel free to make a new one.

Otherwise this thread is for discussion about the 2028 Los Angeles Olympics and specifically the venues and logistics thereof. Please do not logjam the thread with sidebars and off-topic discussions. Thank you.

Would it help if I made a new thread specifically for general IOC and FIFA discussions and pinned it to the top?


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RuFFy said:


> LA is the model cities should be following. Bidding again, and again, and again, with bids that fit the city and not bids for the IOC and the IF’s on taxpayer dollars.



LA got chosen for 1984 because, as with the upcoming winter games in Beijing, the IOC was pretty much out of choices. Not totally different from LA getting 2028---uh, er, Boston dodged a bullet; before that, Chicago.

LA bidding numerous times over the past decades is another reason why the IOC should drop the BS talk about reducing costs and burdens for a Tokyo or Paris, and go with a less free-form rotating format. 

Instead of limiting Athens to 2004, they should have tried making that city a more permanent host. They should have done the same thing with London too. It's a waste of time and resources to limit an Olympics to a particular place for just two weeks out of a year, such as 2012, and only one time out of 75 years or so.

Beijing in 2008 and 2022 is getting closer to that format. Of course, that city is in a country that isn't exactly my idea of the Olympic ideal.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

GunnerJacket said:


> *Mod Note:* Non-political discussions about the 2021 Tokyo games belong here.
> Non-political discussions about the 2024 Paris games go here.
> Feel free to discuss bids about the 2032 games here.
> If you want to simply bash the politics of the IOC (or FIFA) there's an old thread for such buried somewhere on this site or feel free to make a new one.
> ...


No use multiplying threads. I would stick with the LA thread.

Corona now provides an opportunity for the IOC to push through the LA changes ahead of time and keep the IOC from taking two more public beatings for being hopelessly out of touch with economic and social reality. Bach and Drut are publicly advocating trying to save something from the Tokyo debacle and implementing change in Paris so as not to undergo another overblown money loser at a time when people are very sensitive to just making ends meet.

Using the Paris thread causes the Europeans to confuse the city with the process, and they feel that France is being insulted. The LA thread is more useful because it is already focused on the new model and can just be ignored for those interested in Paris.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

It's very simple, the onus is entirely on a few of the LA based posters not to post their fanciful narrative with every technical update they provide on the project. If they want to do that within their own thread, in the American section of the forum, fine, but I'm not quite sure why international posters should not respond when the thread becomes.....well, a boring yankfest.

And yes, of course purely Paris orientated posts should go in the Paris thread.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> Realistically, for Tokyo, this is catastrophic. It’s catastrophic for Beijing 2022 and is going to spill over to Paris 2024. While by 2026 the rest of the world will probably have moved on, those games have been entrusted to Italy. I don’t think most need a crystal ball to see what’s going to happen here and how the conversation will be a little tumultuous for the next few years for the IOC. And I’m wondering how “essentials” will play into the LA2028 narrative. Crazy how the cards get shook, and when house comes falling down the end point is the same for the IOC. LA. LA is the model cities should be following. Bidding again, and again, and again, with bids that fit the city and not bids for the IOC and the IF’s on taxpayer dollars.


Yes. Tokyo is an unfortunate example of over-spending, rancor, and finally bad luck with Corona. Fortunately, Paris is still 4 years away and many costs can be avoided, including most of the parties, fireworks, galas for VIP's, etc. Interestingly I received an invitation to bid on providing hospitality services for the Paris, Beijing and LA Games with instructions to make the plans streamlined, portable and adaptable among the three locations and later events; it looks like they are trying to control local costs).

LA raises fewer issues since the funds are private; but still you want to keep the right image. And for the future, you want to take cities in the huge Asian markets and develop their skills over a decade or two if they demonstrate legitimate uses for the facilities.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> It's very simple, the onus is entirely on a few of the LA based posters not to post their fanciful, macho narrative with every technical update they provide on the project. If they want to do that within their own thread, in the American section of the forum, fine, but I'm not quite sure why international posters should sit by and watch this thread be turned into a yankfest.
> 
> And yes, of course purely Paris orientated posts should go in the Paris thread. It's very odd that they're not.


It can just be ignored. Really, how many city threads in Europe (or anywhere else) are really just chat rooms for local lovers of some city, team, project, etc. I check classical architecture threads regularly and the most bizarre opinions are posted by locals, but, hey, they love their cities and that's great. That's really what almost every internet discussion group is about.


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## GunnerJacket (Jan 25, 2008)

*Mod Note:* Thread reopened.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

I'll segue over to noting that the lighting in the Coliseum was not too good at LA's last Olympics. Hope that's dealt with in 2028.

Much brighter look and sound at the Olympics in 2012. Uh, holy moly.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Using the LA Olympics thread to post English comics and the Pet Shop Boys, and repeatedly castigating Sebastian Coe and praising Montserrat Caballe, etc., are not the actions of someone trying to save later Games from spending money. You criticize (or praise) them as a matters of taste, not finances.

In any event, the Olympics general thread is out there for this purpose. For this thread I would stick to something a bit more specifically connected to LA, its buildings, finances, processes and such in the context of the world we are in and the expected IOC priority shifts. Bach has made it clear that Tokyo, Paris and LA are part of process of rethinking the Games as part of the Corona response.

Of course, a separate thread would also work.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

LOL. Hey, what happened to your post and then my post after my post with the videos from 1984 and 2012?

Is that you, Gunnerjacket?

Before he temporarily closed this thread, I saw things like:

"No use multiplying threads. I would stick with the LA thread." 

Come on, the irony is funny.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> Using the LA Olympics thread to post English comics and the Pet Shop Boys, and repeatedly castigating Sebastian Coe and praising Montserrat Caballe, etc., are not the actions of someone trying to save later Games from spending money.



Who or what is Montserrat Caballe? If the Olympics were being pulled apart by massive spending alone, and not other things, I wouldn't judge its image and prestige as being under the gun.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Rams to borrow extra $500 million from NFL to fund Olympic venue SoFi Stadium

Due to Corona, extra costs, etc., Stan Kroenke is borrowing 500M more from the NFL to finish the LASED development. This ties in with the funding issues that plague the Olympics and shows that governments can be at leas partially protected by having privately funded projects. 

In general, when budget issues arise in projects in which government money is involved, the projects become bogged down in hearings, recriminations, political issues, parties frantically looking how to cover themselves at the expense of the government, etc. This not only leads to the squandering of funds, delays and flat-out corruption, but erodes whatever public support there once was. Call for investigations, public votes, cutting funds, etc.

By contrast, the NFL voted unanimously to extend the 500M funding at a meeting 2 days later.


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## parcdesprinces (Feb 15, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> Who or what is Montserrat Caballe?



 (& already multi-SSC-posted)* :*

re- :


parcdesprinces said:


> ^^
> 
> In Memoriam (doux souvenirs):
> 
> ...


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

parcdesprinces said:


> (& already multi-SSC-posted)* :*
> 
> re- :


Merci for the post; as you say, it has been posted and praised on various Olympics related threads.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

parcdesprinces said:


> (& already multi-SSC-posted)* :*



Oh, that's who she is. Odd name since it doesn't sound like it belongs to a person, much less a woman. I admit to being too lazy to look her up. I recall a broadcaster at the 1992 games saying, "get me the aria out of here."


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> In general, when budget issues arise in projects in which government money is involved, the projects become bogged down in hearings, recriminations, political issues, parties frantically looking how to cover themselves at the expense of the government, etc.



For some reason, a more private-sector approach to the Olympics has caused resentment in certain quarters. Although an over-commercialized approach, as what occurred in 1996, is not good too, the big-wallet strategy of government subsidies to a games is also ridiculous.

At the opening of the 2012 games, the 1984 and 1996 games apparently were symbolically snubbed for that very reason. The person who did that never explained his tactic, but knowing his preference for government subsidies X, Y and Z, that wasn't a slight done inadvertently.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Well, good thing the Olympics aren't in LA this week. That's one of the things the IOC just can't do much about, except go to a seriously authoritarian country I suppose.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

And PLEASE don't get you-know-who started with his totally off-topic selective memory of events. Those belong in the general discussion thread.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Come to think of it, I'm going to post this here. It was one of the highlights of the 2012 games. I hope the 2028 organizers, if they ever run into this thread, get some ideas and inspiration from it:


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

pesto said:


> and you stick to them for years, over several games


Sounds properly dull if true. Let's see.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

Rio’s Opening Ceremony wasn’t as good as it could have been if you ask me. But I guess that’s all dependent on who you ask.

As for the Opening Ceremony for 2028 I envision Los Angeles attempting to sell itself as forward thinking and of the future. It fits the new games for a new era theme, but it also fits LA as a young, cool city. I can bet LA will want to place its millennial magnet on full blast and sell itself as that kind of place where millennials fit in and thrive. The LA is an idea and at the same time a place is going to be the undercurrent of those Opening Ceremonies. Of course I don’t actually know this, but that seems to be the drum beat of LA.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

RuFFy said:


> it also fits LA as a young, cool city....I can bet LA will want to place its millennial magnet on full blast and sell itself as that kind of place where millennials fit in and thrive


As a Millennial, I'd be delighted to still be considered "young and cool" by the time 2028 rolls around!


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## slipperydog (Jul 19, 2009)

Yeah, you're thinking Gen Z. Us millenials are taking care of our aging parents and trying to pay off our mortgage.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RuFFy said:


> It fits the new games for a new era theme, but it also fits LA as a young, cool city. I can bet LA will want to place its millennial magnet on full blast and sell itself as that kind of place where millennials fit in and thrive. The LA is an idea and at the same time a place is going to be the undercurrent of those Opening Ceremonies. Of course I don’t actually know this, but that seems to be the drum beat of LA.



No joking, the event below seems more inclusive to me than the Olympics of 2016, 2012, 2008, 2004, 2000, etc, were. More international, more "we are the world" and not mainly some city or country on the other side of the globe.

LA should go against tradition and make its opening be about all cultures, all cities, all nations of the world. Even more so, given the way politics and entertainment trends are going, "Hollywood," "USA" and "West" may not only not cut it in 2028, it may get booed on and have eggs thrown at it. To be safe, a more international flavor may be just what the doctor ordered---hopefully not the guy now in charge of the UN's WHO. 

Brave new world up ahead, folks.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

The 2028 organizers might use this as a movie-Hollywood theme for the next Olympics in LA:







Whether I'm being serious or not depends altogether on the history of the US and world over the next 10 years. Hey, at least the 2012 organizers didn't pipe into the Olympic stadium a few fart sounds for even bigger laughs.


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## GunnerJacket (Jan 25, 2008)

Well, the Olympics do featuring running, archery, fencing...


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

GunnerJacket said:


> Well, the Olympics do featuring running, archery, fencing...



There 'ya go. 

The IOC can add stabbing as a demonstration sport in 2028. 

The producer of 2012's opening very well may take that suggestion at face value. He produced the movie _Slumdog Millionaire_ and is a common type in the world of LA/Hollywood. He brought bad Hollywood to London 2012, so it's now our turn to bring bad Hollywood to Los Angeles 2028.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

The Olympic Gold Won’t Go to L.A.


The frugal 2028 Olympic Games suggest a lack of civic will and pride.




altaonline.com





Oh.....but LA28 will make it work.

Some architecture magazine article doesn't like the no build aspect of LA28. Compared to other Olympics.
He says it lacks vision.
I don't mind the no vision but I would like to see the Figuroa corridor transformed into something special for 2028. IDK what but a walkable street would be nice.



> *PARTICIPATION TROPHY*
> Even if a messianic impresario materializes and organizes L.A.’s physical, digital, broadcast, entertainment, and cultural assets into a memorable citywide performance, there remains a nagging sense that the no-build, privatized, bottom-line Olympics lacks spirit, invention, and daring.


we're 8 years out buddy. Relax.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

redspork02 said:


> The Olympic Gold Won’t Go to L.A.
> 
> 
> The frugal 2028 Olympic Games suggest a lack of civic will and pride.
> ...


You have to marvel at someone whose personal greed (insanity?) allows him to ignore 40 years of debacles and the building of useless buildings solely for the profits of local construction companies and the glorification of autocratic leaders. And who thinks that "vision" means making politicians and their relatives even richer at taxpayer expense. 

The Fig Corridor project (like the subway extensions, SoFi, UCLA housing, etc.) PREDATES the Olympics and are not directly connected (although they obviously will be used). And for sure it is a good idea, as is the more general project of beautifying major streets around the city (DT, central core, westside, the Valley, South LA, etc.)


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

redspork02 said:


> we're 8 years out buddy. Relax.



That columnist seems to be the type who knows the price of everything (including a desire for costly new Olympic-specific projects), but the value of nothing. Such as basic organizational skills, good attendance, competent planners, arrangers, producers, volunteers.

Previous Olympics, including 2012 and 2016, put a ton of money in their games. In their logos too. But after all was said and done, big bucks for what? To see Mr Bean pretending to sneeze and blow his nose? To enjoy the image of sparse attendance at major venues? For the overkill of the Red Dragon in the Bird's Nest, etc?.

However, I admit that LA does need to make basic improvements to the city's looks. Changes so that Exposition Park, the Fig corridor, areas further north, etc, don't look too rundown. But that's something that should be done regardless of 2028. Or 1984. Or 1932.


.


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## Nacre (May 9, 2016)

californiadreams said:


> Previous Olympics, including 2012 and 2016, put a ton of money in their games. In their logos too. But after all was said and done, big bucks for what?


Nationalism, pride and keeping critics from attacking them.

You can strongarm the sporting federations into using cost effective venues, or you can be the "best host ever". But you cannot do both at once.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Nacre said:


> Nationalism, pride and keeping critics from attacking them.
> 
> You can strongarm the sporting federations into using cost effective venues, or you can be the "best host ever". But you cannot do both at once.


I think that's the OLD rhetoric, the one that no one supports if it wastes their own personal money (SF, Boston, Hamburg, Rome, Budapest and many more which were never even proposed because opposition was so strong)

The driving force was the construction and hospitality industries; They invented the narrative about how the Olympics shows you're a great city so step up and pay or just be the chump you have always been. That tune is still being played in Brisbane, China, India, etc., who see themselves as minor players on the big stage and are still naive or corrupt enough to figure the Olympics will change it. 

That's why change is being pushed through: no more wasteful spending on trying to pretend you are a great city unless it is at private expense or at very minimal government cost. The IOC cooperates by finding cost-savings (use of multiple cities, building only where demand is proven, etc.).

"Best host ever" does not mean "useless puffery put up by autocrats for autocrats". It means events held in an efficient way so as to showcase the athletes. If private parties want to pay to show-off their products or talents, they can provide what entertainment the IOC approves but it must be at private cost or generate its own revenues.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

I think he got his article critiqe wrong. Its not about money or big flashiness venues LA should showcase.
LA should showcase LA for what it is. Different peoples from everywhere. Its the People.
I think he doesn't understand LA lacks a traditional gathering place. Do we need one? IDK. There has always been a lack of unity in the southland. Individualism in city planning reigns. Freeways that create "borders" from neighbors. Unwalkable streets. The geography.

LA Rail Metro is trying to sow LA county together. Its all good to me, but its not a great visual unifier like a traditional urban city with its Zocalo, its Trafalgar Square, Times Square, etc.

Id like LA to have one, (Grand Park?? eh) but im not worried or convinced we ever needed one. We gather/unite our own way.
Those massive marches these last few weeks on Hollywood Blvd are the reason why. They are beautiful. (for the cause and for image).
Thats why im ok with sprucing up Figueroa and say maybe......The DTLA to Koreatown portion of Wilshire. And the Widening of sidewalks in Hollywood.
Those Boulevards are our front yards, our gathering spots. Very LA>


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1272246561234472964

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1269861580755222530

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1272373771769229312


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## Nacre (May 9, 2016)

pesto said:


> "Best host ever" does not mean "useless puffery put up by autocrats for autocrats". It means events held in an efficient way so as to showcase the athletes. If private parties want to pay to show-off their products or talents, they can provide what entertainment the IOC approves but it must be at private cost or generate its own revenues.


I understand that you think this is how the Olympics should operate. (And for the most part I agree.) But it does not follow that they do.



redspork02 said:


> LA should showcase LA for what it is. Different peoples from everywhere. Its the People.


Ditto.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

I use the 2012 and 2016 Olympic games as markers on how a host can pour billions of dollars into their games and give not one bit more positive of an impression - at least for me - of a city after than before a games has occurred. 

Actually, the 2016 Olympics gave Rio a more negative vibe before, during and after the games. 

London, which is already a guaranteed international hub and doesn't need to stroke its reputation, came off as less big-time after the 2012 Olympics than before. I originally thought the 2012 games were going to restore some old-time excellence to the Olympics, but I was wrong..London, however, is one of the major sites I'd consider as always prepared to host another Olympic games. Just don't allow Sebastian Coe anywhere near managing a host committee.. 

The 2008 games, by contrast, did give me a more positive impression of Beijing, which is easy when a nation is run with an iron-command fist. The 26 miles of the 2008 marathon did manage to look consistently good or clean, at least on TV.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

redspork02 said:


> I think he got his article critiqe wrong. Its not about money or big flashiness venues LA should showcase.
> LA should showcase LA for what it is. Different peoples from everywhere. Its the People.



That's why I think the theme of the 2028 games should ditch the local-me-me-me provincialism and go with an international format.

Major cities like London and Paris, which are already long-established hubs (not like a Barcelona or Rio, or Athens/Sydney) don't need to strut their stuff. If anything, when a London becomes too parochial, it comes off as more small-time than big-time player.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Certain cities apply to host for this reason. To showcase that cities history, that counties traditions. Each Olympiad is unique in there own way.
LA will be no different. Stop trying to make FETCH happen.

All past ceremonies are a sign of there times. For better or for worse. Just because you felt that way of London, doesn't make it so. The consensus is that it was great.

For Example, Atlantas opening ceremony I think was perfect. A lil bit of Atlanta steppers. High schoolers. etc. (not the Trucks though) One song about Georgia, (Thank you Mrs. Gladys Knight), then the allegory that was the T-bird and summer in Georgia dancing showcase. Then the 100 anniversary of Greece presentation. Simple and perfect. TO ME> Not to you. Let it go with London. You've told us 100 times.


californiadreams said:


> That's why I think the theme of the 2028 games should ditch the local-me-me-me provincialism and go with an international format.
> 
> Major cities like London and Paris, which are already long-established hubs (not like a Barcelona or Rio, or Athens/Sydney) don't need to strut their stuff. If anything, when a London becomes too parochial, it comes off as more small-time than big-time player.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

redspork02 said:


> (not the Trucks though) Simple and perfect. TO ME> Not to you. Let it go with London. You've told us 100 times.



Not the trucks? So even you draw the line somewhere. Fine. I just happen to draw it before you do.

Yep, I emphasize the cover of an Olympics "book," since the symbolic opening of a games tends to reflect on the host committee and city. It's one step down from the way a very expensive new stadium or costly master-planned Olympic park symbolizes a particular games. Or what the IOC has liked pushing for in terms of so-called legacy.

Since LA 2028 isn't going to have much - or anything - in the way of big new development (good thing too), the next item down on the check list will be the opening (or book cover) of the 2028 games. I think it should be innovative, go against the Olympic charter, and highlight the nations and cities of the entire world, one portion being devoted to LA/USA, of course. But only one small portion..


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

My line is small. your line is the great wall.
We will just have to wait and see. I recommend you email the LAOOC. Let them know your idea of emphasizing a "international games".








LA 2028


The official website of the Los Angeles Organizing Committee for the Olympic and Paralympic Games 2028.




la28.org




[email protected]

Hope you get the response you're looking for. because you told us 101 times. "London=boo! London Logo= boo! Sebastian Coe= Boo!" we get it.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

redspork02 said:


> My line is small. your line is the great wall.
> 
> Hope you get the response you're looking for. because you told us 101 times. "London=boo! London Logo= boo! Sebastian Coe= Boo!" we get it.



If my line is located way before your line, and is higher than your line, I don't know if that means a city getting the Olympics therefore is a case of a BFD or of no BFD. Or whether preparing for a games is also a BFD or no BFD. 

If a teacher hands out a lot of As and Bs, after awhile those grades lose their meaning. Actually, grade inflation is very common nowadays. That's probably one reason why things like the Olympics have lost some of their status. Now after events like Covid, riots and protests?

To bring up the 2012 games again, part of it was treated like a bad joke. Why the organizers didn't have fart sounds on the loud speaker as the Queen and James Bond parachuted in was a lost opportunity. The spectators would have laughed their heads off.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> If my line is located way before your line, and is higher than your line, I don't know if that means a city getting the Olympics therefore is a case of a BFD or of no BFD. Or whether preparing for a games is also a BFD or no BFD.
> 
> If a teacher hands out a lot of As and Bs, after awhile those grades lose their meaning. Actually, grade inflation is very common nowadays. That's probably one reason why things like the Olympics have lost some of their status. Now after events like Covid, riots and protests?
> 
> To bring up the 2012 games again, part of it was treated like a bad joke. Why the organizers didn't have fart sounds on the loud speaker as the Queen and James Bond parachuted in was a lost opportunity. The spectators would have laughed their heads off.


Why not use the general thread to talk about your demons and fixations and leave the specific city thread for events relevant to those Games? There is nothing here even vaguely related to LA.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> Why not use the general thread to talk about your demons and fixations and leave the specific city thread for events relevant to those Games? There is nothing here even vaguely related to LA.



I'm going to post this here. It was in this thread several weeks ago. Guess who originally inserted into the "2028 Summer Olympic Games" thread?


https://www.skyscrapercity.com/thre...-of-the-xxxiv-olympiad.2028355/post-168203435


> Re the Tokyo 2021 Games: “You know, we were discussing this among us, and I think I mentioned it at the beginning, to say, that we want to have – we want this Olympic Games – to be frugal Games, concentrating on the essentials, and the spirit and the message of the Olympic Games.”
> 
> Re the Paris 2024 Games: “We are in discussion concerning this question with Paris 2024. As we are in discussion with Paris 2024, on a wider scope, already, what can be transferred, maybe, from the new measures we take for Tokyo; also to Paris ‘24. So, how can Paris ‘24 benefit from this new approach there in line with Olympic Agenda 2020 and in line with the New Norm, and where we are – as I said in this Olympism and Corona message – now already in a new phase of looking into a new reduction of costs, or better said, focusing on the essentials of the Games. So you can see this, the question you are raising, in this wider context.”
> 
> ...


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

LAX Builds for 2028 Olympics | Airways Magazine

A fairly detailed summary of the changes to LAX expected to be ready by 2028. In brief, LAX will be well connected to the LA Metro system which will go to the Olympic venues downtown, in Expo Park, Inglewood, UCLA and N. Hollywood (among others).

For a few events, Long Beach, Burbank, Orange Cty. or Ontario Airports may be more convenient..


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

2028 is still 8 years away. But what's going on today culturally, politically and economically probably will still be lingering when LA hosts its third Olympics (presumably). It will be a successful games if it at least isn't ruined by both red ink and some terrorist incident. Everything else now is going to be an even bigger crapshoot, including things like attendance figures, organizational skills and ceremonies.










This Researcher Predicted 2020 Would Be Mayhem. Here’s What He Says May Come Next


When Peter Turchin issued his forecast 10 years ago, there were plenty of skeptics. "They had no reason to believe I wasn’t crazy"




time.com







> Not everyone took Peter Turchin seriously a decade ago when he said widespread civil unrest would sweep through the U.S. in 2020. “They had no reason to believe I wasn’t crazy,” says Turchin, a 63-year-old researcher who teaches cultural evolution at the University of Connecticut.
> 
> In 2010, after analyzing historical cycles of instability, Turchin made a prediction that was published at the time in the journal _Nature_: America will suffer a period of major social upheaval beginning around 2020.
> 
> ...


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> 2028 is still 8 years away. But what's going on today culturally, politically and economically probably will still be lingering when LA hosts its third Olympics (presumably). It will be a successful games if it at least isn't ruined by both red ink and some terrorist incident. Everything else now is going to be an even bigger crapshoot, including things like attendance figures, organizational skills and ceremonies.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is way off subject and complete b/s. Again, I am sorry about your demons but why post them here?

There are literally 10k of these charlatans out there predicting economic, social, etc., collapse and then getting you to pay for their "scientific" advice. 

There is a considerable literature ripping their predictions to shreds; but the profoundly ignorant still fall for them. There is even a stock phrase economists use for them: "this guy has predicted 17 of the last 2 recessions". If you predict often enough you are bound to be right sometimes by coincidence. You just have to ignore the 100 times they were wrong.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

I want to post this here because it's another one of the highlights of the 2012 Olympics that riffed on a "Hollywood" theme that normally would be associated with bad Hollywood in a bad Olympics in bad LA. Since everything is now being turned into a bad joke, the 2028 games should be no less of a bad joke too. 

Maybe hokey-jokey humor at the 2028 games will take attention away from many people's sour-mood preference for "no justice, no peace."






Hey, 2028 organizers, give it a shot.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

Meanwhile, in Los Angeles....

The Angels have submitted plans to the city of Anaheim to either renovate or replace Angel Stadium and it’s surrounding 150 acres.

At the same time, the Anaheim Ducks are supposed to release their plans for the 100 acres around Honda Center.

If both projects move forward and are completed it would result in a 250 acre contiguous campus between both sites which is served by Metrolink, Amtrak and a future HSR stop. The Platinum Triangle, which both venues are located in, is a 820 acre master planned community in Anaheim.









Angel Stadium Plan Calls for 150 Acres of Housing, Offices, and Retail


Angel Stadium is poised to become the center of a sprawling commercial development including housing, offices, and retail, under a proposed 30-year master plan submitted to the City of Anaheim.




urbanize.la


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

The majority of its existing venues will be completely renovated. Good timing.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Looks nice. I hate to be the spoil-sport, but who can say about the timing? Oakland is going on 15 years and nothing so far. The Raiders were slated to build a stadium in Inglewood in 1995 if I remember correctly. 

I would like some more excitement though. SoFi is hard to match but you should do something if you are wearing the LA name.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

That Platinum Triangle site has incredible potential especially in terms of connections to make it an urban village. I think it’s a natural for what the Angels and Ducks are planning, but to be quite honest I’d like to see it even more dense.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> That Platinum Triangle site has incredible potential especially in terms of connections to make it an urban village. I think it’s a natural for what the Angels and Ducks are planning, but to be quite honest I’d like to see it even more dense.


Yes, this may be nice but it WON'T be downtown. More like, say, La Defense, the Docklands, Inglewood, etc., which are walkable, outdoorsy, mid/high-rise areas with good transit, but with too much design evident and a lack of spontaneous development. They lack the variety of stalls put up in the old town square..


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Anaheim Ducks Plan Mixed-Use District Surrounding Honda Center


The owners of the Anaheim Ducks have unveiled plans to redevelop the surface parking lots surrounding the Honda Center arena into a 115-acre mixed-use district.




urbanize.la





And Here are the Honda Center renderings.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

DTLA SPORTS PARK

1) Figueroa St = Paseo? Walk. Will need more trees.
2) LA Colisuem = Needs Track
3) BofC Stadium = est. 2018
4) Dedeaux Field = Pool needs built
5) Galen Center = est. 2006
6) Convention Center = Expansion proposed. Need more space.
7) Staples Center = Est. 1999. Needs Kobe Statue.
8) MS Theater (LA LIVE) = est. 2007
9) USC Village - Est. 2017

DTLA venues still in good shape.
Looking at the list. Not that many corporate names will need to be changed. I see 3.
Do you guys see any changes coming.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

redspork02 said:


> Anaheim Ducks Plan Mixed-Use District Surrounding Honda Center
> 
> 
> The owners of the Anaheim Ducks have unveiled plans to redevelop the surface parking lots surrounding the Honda Center arena into a 115-acre mixed-use district.
> ...


Great for the Olympics; makes you wonder why they aren't held in LA every time when you see this, Inglewood, UCLA, the Fig Corridor and the beaches all available. New or modernized state-of-the-art venues, gorgeous weather, every type of hotel, LAX expanded and fully connected to transit, and of course Hollywood, Disneyland, the beaches, museums, mountains, neighborhoods, etc.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> makes you wonder why they aren't held in LA every time when you see this



If it were up to me, LA would be one of the areas of the world where the summer games whould be rotated on a continuous basis. I'd include Athens in that mix (for reasons of ancient history) - at least before their 2004 setup had been dealt with as temporary, - London (to represent Europe), Sydney (to represent the Southern Pacific region), Tokyo (to represent Asia---or I'd list Beijing if China weren't so politically spooky), maybe Rio (to represent South America---also at least before their 2016 setup had been dealth with as temporary). Or if Paris 2024 comes off well, they'd represent Europe instead of London.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> If it were up to me, LA would be one of the areas of the world where the summer games whould be rotated on a continuous basis. I'd include Athens in that mix (for reasons of ancient history) - at least before their 2004 setup had been dealt with as temporary, - London (to represent Europe), Sydney (to represent the Southern Pacific region), Tokyo (to represent Asia---or I'd list Beijing if China weren't so politically spooky), maybe Rio (to represent South America---also at least before their 2016 setup had been dealth with as temporary). Or if Paris 2024 comes off well, they'd represent Europe instead of London.


Sydney is ridiculous. One-tenth the size of at least 20 Asian and African cities and in the middle of nowhere. Likewise, remember that Paris and London won't be close to being in the top 100 cities in population in 50 years and London lost billions on its latest efforts and has a huge white elephant.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

pesto said:


> Great for the Olympics; makes you wonder why they aren't held in LA every time when you see this, Inglewood, UCLA, the Fig Corridor and the beaches all available. New or modernized state-of-the-art venues, gorgeous weather, every type of hotel, LAX expanded and fully connected to transit, and of course Hollywood, Disneyland, the beaches, museums, mountains, neighborhoods, etc.


The Olympics are a great opportunity for a city to showcase itself and redefine itself in the subconscious of people. As an observer of LA development I was always aware of the transit projects coming, investments at LAX, the over 2 decade saga of the NFL’s return to LA and even the once proposed AEG downtown stadium. That said, it’s been obvious to me why LA wanted the Olympics. It wanted to change its image to a cooler, vibrant, more urban city. 2028 will offer LA an incredible opportunity to showcase the vast infrastructure improvements that have occurred and are ongoing as well as it’s newfound civic pride. The Olympics are a part of LA’s growth strategy. Each Olympics in LA were followed by the city ascending in its global ranking and I think 2028 is going to raise it one more tier, to the top of the class, and because of perceptions people aren’t ready to accept that. But I think thats what is going to happen.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

pesto said:


> Yes, this may be nice but it WON'T be downtown. More like, say, La Defense, the Docklands, Inglewood, etc., which are walkable, outdoorsy, mid/high-rise areas with good transit, but with too much design evident and a lack of spontaneous development. They lack the variety of stalls put up in the old town square..


I can’t disagree. But as a side note, including the Honda Center, Angels Stadium, housing, office space and that proposed 7,000 seat theater, I think Anaheim is looking to give Inglewood a serious run for its money. The bones for a solid downtown to grow are also there. 57/22/5 freeways, ARTIC serving Metrolink, Amtrak and potentially CAHSR.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> Sydney is ridiculous. London lost billions on its latest efforts and has a huge white elephant.



Whether those cities or other ones, I think the IOC should start selecting key areas of the world and making them a part of a rotating set of hosts, generally one city for each continent. The traveling-circus nature of the modern Olympics seems quaint and way too indulgent based on the cultural, political and economic changes occurring throughout the world.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RuFFy said:


> That said, it’s been obvious to me why LA wanted the Olympics. It wanted to change its image to a cooler, vibrant, more urban city. 2028 will offer LA an incredible opportunity to showcase the vast infrastructure improvements that have occurred and are ongoing as well as it’s newfound civic pride. The Olympics are a part of LA’s growth strategy.



Maybe I'm exaggerating the rank and importance of LA, but to me it's one of the cities of the world where the Olympics, particularly if not done well, make certain places seem less important, not the other way around.

London and Paris are such iconic towns, that the summer games don't really add to their prestige. Rio is iconic too, but it punches a bit less below its weight class because of various issues with Brazil. So that city wanting to be a host didn't seem as indulgent. But due to the 2016 games having a variety of d'ohs!, their Olympics didn't enhance Rio's image as much as they could have.

Tokyo in 2020 (versus 1964) certainly is such a heavy hitter, that the Olympics need it more than Tokyo needs the Olympics. But that's before huge spending has occurred on a games. Now Tokyo needs the Olympics to justify the expenses of their host committee.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> I can’t disagree. But as a side note, including the Honda Center, Angels Stadium, housing, office space and that proposed 7,000 seat theater, I think Anaheim is looking to give Inglewood a serious run for its money. The bones for a solid downtown to grow are also there. 57/22/5 freeways, ARTIC serving Metrolink, Amtrak and potentially CAHSR.


Inglewood is not going to be a downtown either. Both have the distinctive marks of Disneyland: parking in one place; paths to lead you to specific places; control by a single private owner; aesthetic standards; security standards.

I don't figure either Anaheim or Inglewood will be resounding successes except in the major stadiums and theaters which basically already have assured customers. The rest is mostly dependent on the big attractions unless someone can come up with a breakthrough idea. 

Public transit will not supply the major portion of the customers to either location; their customers are too widely dispersed.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Inglewood’s James Butts hands over reins of Metro board to LA’s Eric Garcetti

A brief mention of the Inglewood People Mover and other projects useful for the Olympics..

The worrisome part is that Metro will be experiencing severe budget cuts and focusing on policing issues, racial justice, etc. This may spell trouble for the Olympics since Metro has already been startlingly consistent in being way behind schedule and way over budget.

Maybe Tokyo 2021, Paris 2025, LA 2029 isn’t such a bad idea? lol


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> The worrisome part is that Metro will be experiencing severe budget cuts and focusing on policing issues, racial justice, etc. This may spell trouble for the Olympics since Metro has already been startlingly consistent in being way behind schedule and way over budget.



What's going on right now politically and economically - and pandemically - throughout the world is like a bit of Beijing 2008 (either good social-media credit scores or else being an outcast) mixed in with a bit of Montreal 1976, Munich 1972, and hints of Berlin 1936 and the 1940 Tokyo Olympics (cancelled due to war), If LA were hosting the 2020 games or even the 2024 ones, I'd be very apprehensive about how things may turn out.

Right now, even for 2028, if LA's games at least are a financial success - and nothing else - where the budget is in the black, that will be a miracle. Or more along the lines of what Atlanta 1996 has been able to claim as its crowning achievement for the past 20-plus years.. .


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

I have said it before: all this year while the timid hide indoors too afraid to move, the new billionaires are being made for the new economy evolving. 

No use crying or looking at the past; even Macron and the Paris Olympics are reinventing themselves for 2024 and they have only been around for a few years. I won't even speculate on what 2028 will bring but if the fearful and authoritarian governments don't squash it, people won't be able to imagine how crappy life was before 2020.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> I have said it before: all this year while the timid hide indoors too afraid to move



Reminds me of all the people I've seen over the past several months strolling down largely empty, quiet streets with face masks on. Quite a few of them have been younger rather than older people too. 

Some of them, listening to music with their earbuds on, have been even jogging in the great outdoors. Again, people walking or running around - face masks firmly affixed - without any other soul around.

Maybe the IOC can come up with new competitions that involve masks. Lung capacities and oxygen deprivation can be put to the test. Olympic judges can rate fears and phobias on a scale from 1 to 10. Or how well participants are in following the party line. That should be a big hit particularly at the 2022 Winter Olympics.


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## GunnerJacket (Jan 25, 2008)

Drifting a bit too deep into the purely socio-political. Let's reel it back in to just the 2028 games please, folks.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

GunnerJacket said:


> Drifting a bit too deep into the purely socio-political. Let's reel it back in to just the 2028 games please, folks.


Yes. There is no need to moan about events now 2 or 3 generations out of date. There is enough going on with the economic and social rethinking of the Olympics and the adjustment sports need to make for the digital world.

And it will be interesting to see how Paris and LA address Guy Drut's comments on rethinking budgets, prioritizing government spending and getting in touch with social realities will play out in light of the current travel and building expenses, and BLM mandates.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

GunnerJacket said:


> Drifting a bit too deep into the purely socio-political. Let's reel it back in to just the 2028 games please, folks.



Maybe the social and political will be different in 8 years, but if you go back to 2012 certain social, political trends 8 years ago have not changed way too much today. So current trends probably will be even more in effect in 2028. 

LA 1984 managed to do well (at least to some people) in spite of negative trends 36 years ago, including more rundown venues and a more rundown city.

LA may be better off regarding those two categories in 2028, but the social, political - and economic - trends now and into at least the immediate future mean the clock is going to start ticking very fast. 

Will upcoming Olympic games get trashed because they reflect too much Western, national, racial, ethnic, gender, economic-class privilege?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Indian Sports Minister has "no doubt" about top-10 finish at Los Angeles 2028

And speaking of changes in LA, India guarantees a top 10 finish in 2028. Should create some excitement in Cerritos and Artesia.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> Indian Sports Minister has "no doubt" about top-10 finish at Los Angeles 2028
> Should create some excitement in Cerritos and Artesia.


Although many major cities of the world, certainly including London, are known for their cultural diversity, it would be good if LA 2028 walks the walk, not just talk the talk, about being a host of the whole world. After all, the movie industry through the decades has made LA a stand-in for other towns, countries, places.

Last night I was watching a snippet of the Jungle Book movie produced a few years ago. The CGI in it was astounding, I could have sworn that film was actually made in the deepest jungles of Asia, South America, Africa. I recall when that movie came out, it was publicized as having been filmed in a warehouse in Los Angeles.

London 2012 played up an overly localized angle, from obscure aspects of UK history to the London entertainment industry (movies, music). It would be better if LA 2028 is more international and sophisticated than that.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Examining the LA 1984 Olympic Legacy: Capitalism, Police Violence, & Privatization

A summary of how past and present Olympics have served as excuses to brutalize and evict minorities, militarize the police and make the rich richer. 

Odd that this happens in a city that is only about 20 percent "white" (census definitions). And there are other issues with this story but, hey, it’s a free country.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> Examining the LA 1984 Olympic Legacy: Capitalism, Police Violence, & Privatization



The people (actresses among others) who work with the IOC in presenting a pseudo-ancient version of an Olympic torch lighting ceremony in Athens over 30 years ago attempted to boycott the 1984 summer games.

LA 84 (and Atlanta 96 too) was symbolically snubbed by the producer of the 2012 opening. Such people in London circles are sometimes known as "luvvies." The kind of people who tend to resent free markets, capitalism and sensible budgets. People who are often guilty of a lot of forms of hypocrisy. Such as producing bloated, big-money, no-holds-barred events like the opening of the 2012 summer games. .

The games of Covid-19 2020 and Minneapolis 2020 may do interesting end-run arounds towards the entirely way too top-heavy, overly expensive nature of the Olympics as time goes on.

Let them eat cake.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

californiadreams said:


> London 2012 played up an overly localized angle, from *obscure aspects of UK history* to the London entertainment industry (movies, music). It would be better if LA 2028 is more international and sophisticated than that.


I don't think there was anything hugely obscure that was a major point of the show, but tbh it's shame you _chose_ to take it that way. Past ceremonies have shown me things about countries I didn't know before, and I love that. 

And I'm sorry to say is always, without exception, Americans who come out with these kind of "observations". A city has the temerity to choose aspects of its history you might not be _personally _familiar with and rather than wondering why a country might choose to project these aspects to the world and saying "cool, I didn't know that", you complain that it's all too haaard, all too local. It's a stereotype that Americans lack curiosity for anything outside of their own borders but it's one you're really living up to. 😂 🍔


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> I'm sorry to say is always, without exception, yanks who come out with these kind of "observations". A city has the temerity to choose aspects of its history you might not be _personally _familiar with and rather than wondering why a country might choose to project these aspects to the world, you complain that it's all too haaard, all too local. That kind of comment really does show modern American exceptionalism and lack of curiosity at its worst. 🍔


Seems you are assuming British exceptionalism (everybody in the world is interested in the minutia of English history; Americans are wrong for not doing likewise).

Btw, so you don't have to say this again, I have spoken to relatives from Venezuela and the Philippines today and they assure me they have no interest in British history before Lady Di.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> I'm sorry to say is always, without exception, yanks who come out with these kind of "observations". A city has the temerity to choose aspects of its history you might not be _personally _familiar with and rather than wondering why a country might choose to project these aspects to the world, you complain that it's all too haaard, all too local. It's a stereotype to say Americans lack curiosity for anything outside of their own borders but it's one you're really living up to. 😂 🍔



Politics and social or cultural preferences transcend boundaries. Racial, ethnic, national, religious, gender/sexual ones included. For instance, the mayors of both London and Los Angeles - separated by thousands of miles - are more alike than different. They're both making their cities fantastic places. 

Rioting, looting and anger have been largely absent in such towns (Paris too) for quite awhile, unlike what's happening in Minneapolis, Hong Kong or wherever.

It would be good if both Sadiq Kahn and Eric Garcetti took over the running of the IOC. Anne Hidalgo too. Adding Danny Boyle to the mix would make a great triumvirate. They can do a group hug. .


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

pesto said:


> Seems you are assuming British exceptionalism (everybody in the world is interested in the minutia of English history; Americans are wrong for not doing likewise).
> 
> Btw, so you don't have to say this again, I have spoken to relatives from Venezuela and the Philippines today and they assure me they have no interest in British history before Lady Di.


Not being interested is one thing, but _actively complaining_ a country is showing aspects of itself that you're personally unfamiliar with...that kind of observation seems to always comes from Americans. And actually, as I said, there was nothing major in the London ceremony that was obscure. I think it speaks of a somewhat ignorant starting point and a lack of curiosity beyond that.

And I'm certainly not saying all Americans are like that, just that all comments I've seen along these lines are from Americans.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> Not being interested is one thing, but actively complaining a country is showing aspects of itself that you're personally unfamiliar with...that kind of observation seems to always comes from Americans.



Danny Boyle apparently resents America so much for things like that, he and his staffers overllooked the games of 1984 and 1996 during the cheesy, overwrought opening to 2012. Admittedly, his politics and that of many people who live in London and Los Angeles are helping make their cities so pleasant, kind and caring, a tourist's paradise. So all is forgiven.

Beijing is hosting the 2022 Olympics and I wonder if any demonstrators there will ever dare to try to take down the large picture of that great humanitarian Mao Tse-tung?


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RuFFy said:


> the NFL’s soon to open Sofi Stadium and future host of the opening ceremonies



Although it's nice the 2028 committee will have such options, I think that for reasons of history and technical flexibility (mainly because of the differences between an open-air versus enclosed stadium) the LA Coliseum should be where the "bookends" of the 2028 Olympics are held. The Coliseum is also technically, legally within the boundaries of the formal host city,

Either way, I have a hunch that while LA 2028 may have better venues than LA 1984, and while the host city may be in better condition physically, something about different cultural, political customs and trends in 2028 versus 1984 will end up causing the law of unintended consequences. So the 2028 games may have more of an "off" quality about it. I hope I'm wrong. But if I'm not, I hope 2028 at least will still be less goofy-funky than 2012, 2016 or other recent Olympics have been.

Regardless, the law of unintended consequences is just the way the world is going in today's times. That includes the IOC, sports in general and trends in the LA/world scene.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

This was a webinar hosted by the consulate office of the Netherlands in San Francisco, focusing on Dutch companies that can become involved with the games, with Casey Wasserman and a few others talking about 2028. Even though that year seems far away, if an organizing committee, as Casey says, has to worry about starting and completing major projects for an Olympics, the normal time frame of 4 years isn't that long.

I think if the 2028 games end up cancelled for whatever reason, that won't sting quite as much as what's happening to Tokyo for 2020. Such hosts are like people who pour big money into a party, order a lot of food, rent a big hall, hire entertainers and caterers, and the guests at the last minute all decide to drop out. Some of that will have to be done for 2028 too, but not quite as much.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Had to share this here. Amazing place.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

LA now has four threads that prominently feature SoFi: the Olympics, FIFA 2026, SoFi and Forum/Clippers Arena. Really a testament to its scope.

Of course, the FIFA and Olympics threads have many other subjects to cover as well.

.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

redspork02 said:


> Had to share this here. Amazing place.



Tered posted in the SoFi thread that Youtuber's daytime look at the stadium, which gives a better sense of the surrounding area:






Made me think of how the Olympic committee in Tokyo spent big money to tear down and replace the stadium used for the 1964 games, and how they've poured even more money into hosting other parts of a two-week sporting event. An event that possibly won't even happen.

If SoFi were built exclusively for an Olympics game - an event that, at best, rolls around for a particular city once every 50-60-100 years - I'd be disgusted. The IOC needs to stop with all the phony posturing about respecting a so-called low carbon footprint. If they had, the 2020 committe would have kept the 1964 stadium and made do with a perfectly fine facility for track and field..

As for 2028, the video conference hosted by the Netherlands government also makes me hope the LA 2028 committee treats their Olympics as a truly international affair, not an overly one-country-only, one-city-only event like the 2008, 2012, 2016 games were. Other Olympics for the past several decades too. We don't have to go the local-yokel route. LA 2028 should be a stand-in for all nations, all cities, all peoples, all places, all cultures.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> Tered posted in the SoFi thread that Youtuber's daytime look at the stadium, which gives a better sense of the surrounding area:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This belongs in the Tokyo thread or the general thread. If you post there I will explain why your arguments are a little thin.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

^ That's ok. The topic of the "Olympics" is so esoteric to most people, that conversations about it often end up being like the subject of how many philips screws are needed for the passenger side of a car.

Still not sure if mods like GunnerJacket realize just how dead most threads are in a forum like this. I don't manage SSC, so it's not my call. But if I did, a lot of threads would be consolidated. Even then, the number of people contributing to them could still hold a meeting in what was once known as a phone booth.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

For most of the public, the next major, very telling decision that the LA 28 committee will make is the one involving the official logo for the 2028 Olympic games. That will be a big part of "Los Angeles 2028 is preparing to launch its brand." 

The formal, official logo for the 2012 games was mishandled by the 2012 committee and, more recently, by the 2024 committee for their games. The organizers in Tokyo didn't handle that task too smoothly too.

When seeing the 2028 bid logo (originally the 2024 logo) used in the recent webinar hosted by the Netherlands, I think that one should become the formal, official one. That will save both time and money..It will be also a nice change of pace from all the overly abstract, WTF? logos that have become common over the past 30 years. I also like it better than the overly unfriendly, corporate one used for the 1984 games.

Los Angeles 2028 preparing for brand launch but youth sports programme delayed 



> The Los Angeles 2028 Organising Committee has laid out four priorities for the rest of the year in a presentation given to the 136th International Olympic Committee (IOC) Session. The four areas Los Angeles 2028 is focused on are its organisational foundation, establishing a brand, youth sports and its commercial programme.
> 
> Los Angeles 2028 now employs 65 people across three offices, although "LA28 continues to operate in a remote 'work from home' environment keeping offices closed based on expert guidance". It says making key legal, finance, human-resources and IT hirings is a priority as it "continues to build a strong foundation".
> 
> ...



BTW, I post here in hopes that people officially involved in the 2028 games may somehow stumble upon this thread in the future, be it 2 months to 7 years from now. There are a lot of WTF?! moments that may strike any large organization and any number of people in the upper tier at any given time.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Read this article from 2016 about "olympic House"s....Didn't know they are becoming a major thing. Even corporate entities are creating "houses".
So do they all conglomerate together in a host city neighborhood?

I see Santa Monica/Venice Beach being popular but my bet is a DTLA pool penthouse or ballrooms/hotels becoming the central location for athletes as the Purple Line will connect the two sites (DTLA and Athletes Village). Unless transportation is provided by the house's. Or Uber it out there. idk lol









Olympic Hospitality Houses Are a Place to Cry and Party During the Games


Olympic hospitality houses were originally intended to be a place for athletes and their families. Now, like with everything else Olympic related, they've become something completely different.




www.vice.com







> Other countries took notice of the house's success. This year, there are more than 35 Olympic committee-affiliated hospitality houses around Rio, with 27 listed on the official Rio 2016 website. Most allow anyone to enter—although you may have to purchase a ticket in advance—but some, such as the Canadian, Chinese, British, Italian, Polish, and USA houses, are exclusive to athletes, their families, and other select invitees.





> Several companies, such as Nike and the NBA, have created their own houses independent of any Olympic committee. Nike has two hospitality houses: the Copa House, home of their marketing and communications team, which is a penthouse on the 15th floor of a residential building overlooking the beach volleyball arena on Copacabana; and the Nike House in Barra near Olympic Park, which is the main site for athletes.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

redspork02 said:


> Read this article from 2016 about "olympic House"s....Didn't know they are becoming a major thing. Even corporate entities are creating "houses".
> So do they all conglomerate together in a host city neighborhood?


This might give you an idea








Olympic National Hospitality Houses by LondonTown.com


A guide to all the confirmed National Hospitality Houses set up by nations across the capital during the London




www.londontown.com


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Fantastic. SO they also use museum space. Parklands and embassies. Hopefully in LA they are spread out but near transit. Some seem to offer programs and domestic culture to share with visitors. Id love to check some out if possible. Never been to one.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

^ That aspect of the 2012 and 2016 games are why an organizing committee needs to always remember they're playing host to the world and not just a bunch of friends and family from a few miles away. 

That was really run home to me when it came to the 2008 games in Beijing. Of course, China's government didn't exactly help things. But the "China, China, China!!!" dynamics of those games were so overbearing (literally too---the sound of pounding drums by thousands of participants in a stadium will do that), those Olympics didn't seem like an international event to me.

The games 4 years later were way too localized and funky in their own way.

I hope the 2028 organizers don't become provincial as most recent games have been. However, I don't want an anti-US, anti-LA tone to hover over 2028, but I also don't want the opposite extreme of that too.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Okay, here we go. It's happening. This is a hint of one aspect of the 2028 games. 

Transgendered athletes will also need to be honored and recognized. Then, too, why are the paralympics held separately from the other Olympics?

I wonder if Wasserman is as "woke" about what, for example, China is all about as what he believes racism is all about?



> LA Olympic officials ask IOC to allow athlete protests
> 
> 
> The head organizer for the 2028 Summer Games in Los Angeles has asked Olympic leaders for a rule change that would allow athletes to protest against racism either from the podium or at other times during the international competition.
> ...


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> Okay, here we go. It's happening. This is a hint of one aspect of the 2028 games.
> 
> Transgendered athletes will also need to be honored and recognized. Then, too, why are the paralympics held separately from the other Olympics?
> 
> I wonder if Wasserman is as "woke" about what, for example, China is all about as what he believes racism is all about?


Wrong thread. This applies to ALL Olympic venues and events and joins like comments not related to LA from others. It should be in the general thread.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

redspork02 said:


> Betting the Olympic Flame will be in the center of that LAke................ ^^


I suspect we'll see something very similar to what Rio 2016 did i.e. a smaller symbolic cauldron lit inside SoFi for the benefit of those paying to watch the ceremony, and at the same time the main cauldron is lit in the Coliseum (beamed across the Occulus). After the ceremony is over SoFi will go dark and the focus will be on the Colseum until the closing when a similar thing will happen for the extinguishing of the flame.

In some circumstances we've seen no cauldron lighting in the main ceremonies stadium (with it all happening outside instead) but that's mainly when the ceremony is in an enclosed indoor space. I don't think that'll apply to SoFi's semi-indoor environment. So I'm guessing the lake flame won't happen. 😁


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> I suspect we'll see something very similar to what Rio 2016 did i.e. a smaller symbolic cauldron lit inside SoFi for the benefit of those paying to watch the ceremony, and at the same time the main cauldron is lit in the Coliseum (beamed across the Occulus). After the ceremony is over SoFi will go dark and the focus will be on the Colseum until the closing when a similar thing will happen for the extinguishing of the flame.
> 
> In some circumstances we've seen no cauldron lighting in the main ceremonies stadium (with it all happening outside instead) but that's mainly when the ceremony is in an enclosed indoor space. I don't think that'll apply to SoFi's semi-indoor environment. So I'm guessing the lake flame won't happen. 😁


What do they usually do with the transgender athletes? lol.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> I suspect we'll see something very similar to what Rio 2016



"Similar to" and "Rio 2016" don't exactly give me a lot of confidence in an Olympic games. However, just as "LA" deserves some blame for "Atlanta 1996" (the 96 opening was produced by a guy based in LA), "America" deserve some blame for an aspect of "Rio 16."

I didn't realize that a violation of the general rule, "keep it simple, stupid" in 2016 can be traced in part to a person based in the Pacific Northwest:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

This is what Casey Wasserman wants to encourage at the 2028 Olympics:






The way things are going, it's very possible his committee will next approve an official logo of the 2028 games that's reminiscent of Lisa Simpson doing something to Bart Simpsom. Or something like that. Not sure if I'm being sarcastic or not. I hope I am. If not, oh-oh.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

RobH said:


> I suspect we'll see something very similar to what Rio 2016 did i.e. a smaller symbolic cauldron lit inside SoFi for the benefit of those paying to watch the ceremony, and at the same time the main cauldron is lit in the Coliseum (beamed across the Occulus). After the ceremony is over SoFi will go dark and the focus will be on the Colseum until the closing when a similar thing will happen for the extinguishing of the flame.
> 
> In some circumstances we've seen no cauldron lighting in the main ceremonies stadium (with it all happening outside instead) but that's mainly when the ceremony is in an enclosed indoor space. I don't think that'll apply to SoFi's semi-indoor environment. So I'm guessing the lake flame won't happen. 😁


Im just gonna ignore that CADreams person, let him/her talk to itself about London. Blah blah blah. Lisa Bart. Moe.

I don't think the main cauldron will be the LAMC. but I do believe it will be lit from the start. They will light it quickly within the first 15 minutes, a tribute. Then move on, they will run the remainder of the torch relay to SoFi during the duration of the ceremony. Symbolizing 1984 and 1932 legacies but moving on to 2028.

SO in the last years, its either a large cauldron/needle upwards out the stadium (Athens, Sydney, Atlanta, Torino, Beijing, SLC, Barcelona) or a architecturally unique, but grounded flame art peace (London, Pyeonchang, Rio, Vancouver) . Vancouver and Rio lit a flame indoors then ran a couple miles to a secondary cauldron.

I think the olympic regulations says that the flame has to be seen, people have to have access/ a view of the flame. So they created a secondary cauldron. I think London just put a live feed.

I imagine they will use Sofi as much as possible, why wouldn't they. My guess of the cauldron lake idea is that many international news media like to do live shots. Or set up a permanent outdoor crew. I can see them using Sofi Stadium grounds for that. (Or at the beach) NBC used the beach at Rio (Today Show). To me it makes sense, Sofi is new, modern and has large enough grounds for easy access. crowd control. security.

People in the stadium will not mind not witnessing the torch being lit. because they will able to see it when leaving the opening ceremony anyways. (hoping I get a tick).

(Still putting my money on a cauldron in the lake. 🤪
secondary opinion.........A torch atop the Library tower?
Third? Hollywood sign? JKJKJK)

------------

On a serious note. I agree with Waserman, They should allow atheletes to show support against racism. shirts, warm up gear. ect. Restrictions should apply but they should allow some support.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

redspork02 said:


> Im just gonna ignore that CADreams person, let him/her talk to itself about London. Blah blah blah. Lisa Bart. Moe.



Get with the times. Everyone now shouldn't be described by the pronoun of "him" or "her." Everyone should now go by "it." Or as a CNN writer put it a day or so ago, "individuals who menstruate." The other main group would be what? "Individuals who ejaculate"?

BTW, as I mentioned a few days ago, I post here in the hopes that someone high up in the 2028 command chain may one day come across statements and opinions in this thread and go "uh, now that you mention it...."

Of course, that could also mean a 2028 committee member may drop by here and go, a-ha! How about we get rid of "Men's" and "Women's" events altogether! For fairness and equal justice, all competitions should begin with the prefix "It."



> J.K. Rowling accused of transphobia after mocking 'people who menstruate' headline
> 
> 
> Twitter users claimed that Rowling's tweet was not only exclusionary to transgender people but also to cisgender women who don't have periods.
> ...





redspork02 said:


> On a serious note. I agree with Waserman, They should allow atheletes to show support against racism. shirts, warm up gear. ect. Restrictions should apply but they should allow some support.


You're walking mine-filled territory there, not too far from where the IOC is already treading since it's allowing a certain country with a brutal history - about 40 years ago in particular - to host both the summer and winter games in its capital city. Do an internet search on "Mao jacket" and you might get an idea of how bad things can easily become.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

As has been mentioned before, the IOC said they have never seen a bid as good as LA; that it could host the games the next month. They are reported to have called the local committee multiple times to make sure SoFi is not threatened by politics, natural disasters, disease, etc.

The Olympics used to be all about one city trumpeting itself and usually running into financial disaster. The expected LA revenue numbers (pre-COVID) were so stunning that the LA plan was stretched backward to include Paris and other Olympic events. In the next years you can expect to see discussion of an integrated lifestyle-directed campaign; permanent institutions to address funding; social, health and economic development impacts in a coherent worldwide approach. 

It may work out or it may collapse; but it is no longer one city for two weeks. It's continuous, cooperative and hopefully beneficial to the world generally,.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Look forward to seeing the developments when they come


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RuFFy said:


> LA finishing up it’s opening ceremony venue 8 years prior to the opening ceremonies on 5 billion private dollars is just remarkable from every aspect. LA having it’s Athletes Village open and operational today is remarkable. Everybody and their momma in the general populace supporting the undertaking of an Olympic Games



If one of those crucial elements were removed from 2028 (or what originally was a campaign for 2024), I'd be irritated at an LA bid for another Olympics. The big money and bloated everything else about the summer games for at least 30 years haven't impressed me.

When promoters of the LA 2024 bid were talking about building a village on the side of the LA River in downtown LA, I recall going, oh-oh, I see a big flop brewing on the horizon.

That's why I did like that at least the budget side of the 1996 games in Atlanta was handled fairly competently, and things like the 26 miles of the marathon course in the 2008 games in Beijing were fairly scenic. But such positives in those and other games have been bogged down by various mistakes, miscues and mishaps. So an Olympic games often ends up being a zero-sum effort..

Casey Wasserman IMO did fumble a controversy not long ago, and I don't have a lot of confidence in the ability of the IOC and 2020 and 2024 to avoid other mine fields.

As for SoFi, it's a first-class facility and will make a great setting for things like the archery venue for 2028. But there are interesting ironies or contradictions in the way things sometimes work out. I can see 2028 and SoFi possibly coming together in a way that's somehow less memorable or so-called charming than a modest-budget, somewhat admittedly seedy 1984. 

Certain intangibles affect the vibe and success or lack of such of any event, Olympics and otherwise.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> The Olympics used to be all about one city trumpeting itself and usually running into financial disaster.



I hope the 2028 games are handled like a truly world-wide, international event - which an Olympics is (or should be) - not a local, chamber-of-commerce one.

Provincialism seems more fitting of smaller, less visible communities, places like a Barcelona or Rio de Janeiro.

Beijing 2008 seemed more like a China games to me, while London 2012 seemed more like a British entertainment-industry games to me.

Yea, I realize YMMV. Plenty of people did think 2008, 2012, 1996, etc, were spectacular, Plenty of people thought 1984 was too spartan or too US-Hollywood-centric. But if my opinion rubs certain people the wrong way, so be it. It is what it is.

This is more of the international, non-provincial tone I want for 2028. Even if I weren't an American or were thousands of miles away from LA, I wouldn't have felt as left out as I did in 2008, 2012, 2016, etc::


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Oh, jeez, what's this all about? In today's world, I don't trust good decisions or sound judgment to come out of anyone or any organization. Everyone wants to re-invent the wheel or fix things, even if they ain't broke.

I notice the bid logo is absent, so is this a prelude to a possible unveiling of a formal 2028 logo? The way things are going, since the 2024 logo looks like something out of a hair salon, will Casey and his crew come up with something that looks like a logo for Apple or Microsoft? Or a logo for Nike?



https://la28.org/en/coming-soon.html


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Logo launches normally come the year before the previous Games (i.e. five years before hosting). Maybe the IOC have decided this year is too quiet for their liking without Tokyo, so things have been shuffled forward. Maybe it's a different strategy as pesto alluded to?

Or...it could just be a website refresh and the lack of bid logo might mean nothing! 😁

EDIT: Just had a look on LA's twitter feed to get some clues. A short black and white video of skateboarders and a Delta sponsorship announcement from March where the Angel logo is also not used in favour of just the wordmark. Looks like she's been quietly retired?


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Everyone is a critic. Its ok. relax dudes! 



californiadreams said:


> https://la28.org/en/coming-soon.html


The golf cart in the Coliseum arches. LOL

This means a change soon.....Probably just a updated website. From Bid form to host city info website.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> EDIT: Just had a look on LA's twitter feed to get some clues. A short black and white video of skateboarders and a Delta sponsorship announcement from March where the Angel logo is also not used in favour of just the wordmark. Looks like she's been quietly retired?


Yea, the bid logo of the winged figure, along with sunset colors, has been conspicuous for quite awhile in most presentation material from the 2028 Committee. By contrast, their current Twitter and web sites have a different visual spin. Looks plainer and darker.



redspork02 said:


> The golf cart in the Coliseum arches. LOL


I thought your browser was picking up some type of gif that mine wasn't. Then I went back and saw the cart towards the back of the photo of the colonnade. Although RobH noted that official logos aren't unveiled until 5 years before start of the next games, which for LA 2028 would mean 2023, maybe both the IOC and LA 28 are tinkering with tradition all over again?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> I hope the 2028 games are handled like a truly world-wide, international event - which an Olympics is (or should be) - not a local, chamber-of-commerce one.
> 
> Provincialism seems more fitting of smaller, less visible communities, places like a Barcelona or Rio de Janeiro.
> 
> ...


You should post this comment in the general olympics thread and delete it from here.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> You should post this comment in the general olympics thread and delete it from here.


Naw, there are already too many threads about the Olympics, from the general one to Tokyo 2020, from Paris to LA. There aren't enough people interested in the subject of the Olympics to justify so many threads. SSC's forum is already too watered down. There are a lot of dead or semi-dead threads. 

I notice the forum at the gamesbid.com site receives few postings too. And that even specializes in the subject of the Olympics and other quadrennial sporting events. Not like this forum that focuses on real estate development, particularly the highrise kind..


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> Naw, there are already too many threads about the Olympics, from the general one to Tokyo 2020, from Paris to LA. There aren't enough people interested in the subject of the Olympics to justify so many threads. SSC's forum is already too watered down. There are a lot of dead or semi-dead threads.
> 
> I notice the forum at the gamesbid.com site receives few postings too. And that even specializes in the subject of the Olympics and other quadrennial sporting events. Not like this forum that focuses on real estate development, particularly the highrise kind..


That's Ok, I understand you can't help it. Maybe try something other than your same off-topic issues and you will get more of a response.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> That's Ok, I understand you can't help it. Maybe try something other than your same off-topic issues and you will get more of a response.


LOL. Even you have to admit you've posted comments through the months that go way off-tangent to the subject of LA 2028. But big deal.

None of these Olympic threads get much of a response, no matter what, no matter who. Again, the subject of the Olympics doesn't interest a lot of people. That's just the way things are.

Certain posts like RobH's recent one about the LA 2028 Twitter page do help in pointing out something new. But most times, most of the posts here - including mines - are a re-hash of a re-hash. Who cares?

I'm posting just as much in the hopes that over the next several years someone involved with LA 2028 comes across this thread and gets some feedback they may not encounter elsewhere. A lot of past games are full of WTF?! moments and decisions, and I hope LA 2028 has as few of those as possible.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

californiadreams said:


> I notice the forum at the gamesbids.com site receives few postings too. And that even specializes in the subject of the Olympics and other quadrennial sporting events


It used to be a very active forum until three of four years ago. Big contingent of London, Paris and Madrid supporters back in the day, ditto Brazilians when Rio was bidding, a fair number of American posters and Aussies, and a few Turks who'd continually bang the Istanbul drum when they bid at every opportunity. Never really had many Asian members so the latest host choices and more depleted fields haven't garnered as much comment. Not many Parisians returned for the 2024 bid and as I've alluded to the LA threads were a dumster fire.

Finally. the deformalisation of the bidding process means there's not a whole lot to comment on. It's died a bit of a death.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> Not many Parisians returned for the 2024 bid and as I've alluded to the LA threads were a dumster fire.


I'm not big on moderated forums since people with red pens have a knack for overdoing deleting and banning. But gamesbid's forums - at least one of them - became too much the wild, wild West. People take conflicting opinions way too personally.

I never posted there myself, but I was always interested in people's comments and updates. For instance, when people point out a revised Twitter page, etc, Actually, I became aware of the revamped LA 2028 web page because someone at gamesbid's forum posted a link to it. 

But just as here, gamesbid's forum probably would be easier to go through if more of the threads were consolidated. They're otherwise not active enough to justify so many sub-categories..


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

The old model encouraged people to rave about their city since it was supposedly prestigious to "win" the Games. The idea of traditions, proper formalities, etc., helped make the Games sound like something of true historic value, rather than a way to attract building contracts, graft and tourism). 

That should decline since the new model recognizes that the Olympics are the brand. The city is of secondary value and not worth spending money building up. Instead make the city fit into a long-term brand strategy that receives from prior events and hands off to later events; a bit player in the big picture. The Olympic brand and those of the relevant sponsors are in the spotlight and managed to give a consistent, developing story from event to event.

Btw, some of the traditions are OK; some are just outdated or barbaric (the marching of the athletes of all nations into the stadium strikes me as something the Roman Emperors would have done to show-off their captives; the controlled village is to the same effect. I expect some of them need to be re-thought or jettisoned).


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

No doubt the LA thread was active. By far the most posted in as there was a lot to talk about. I disagree with Rob. Though obviously it became a nonstop argument, the information itself, if it’s reviewed, was substantial and note worthy, easily surpassing the interest and detail in the Parisian thread. LA just has a lot going on to talk about. Not just that, LA actually has an active scene of bloggers and formers across a broad spectrum of threads due to its new found urbanity.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RuFFy said:


> Not just that, LA actually has an active scene of bloggers and formers across a broad spectrum of threads due to its new found urbanity.



Part of it is also due to the forums being set up by people based in an English-speaking country with a format that caters mainly to English-writing posters. That's a disadvantage to the people of 2020 (now 2021) or 2024.

I notice a few Japanese-native posters, however, have over the past few years keyed in photos and updates for 2020, which I appreciate. I imagine the same will be true of French-native posters as 2024 grows nearer.

I think you're the one at gamesbid who had an avatar listing a Florida address. If that's you, I always wondered why someone way over there was so interested in something way over here. I admit my curiosity about an Olympics in LA is greater than it is for Olympics outside of LA. But I still like seeing what's going on with the IOC and host committees in general.. 

I'm not based in France/Paris, but I was still interested in their new logo several months ago. At the time I wasn't as ambivalent about it as I am now. Probably because I wasn't a big fan of their bid logo, so I didn't mind seeing the formal logo. Then too, I would have been even more pissed with the hair-salon logo if the 2028 committee fumbled that same matter. They very well may too for the 2028 games. 

Bad decisionmaking is always lurking around the corner.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Yes, that's part of my point. Things specific to a city such as logos and other ephemeral trivia are no longer blown-up to great significance like they were when every city needed to shout-out about how unique they and their version of the Olympics was. 

Now the Olympics thinks of its agenda as being more than logos and cute mascots. If the PR people want to get their name in print, they talk about the social significance of the Olympic movement.as a whole and how the city fits into that. You may or may not like it, but being on the right side of funding, social, development, ecological, etc., issues are what the IOC wants to make sure it is known for.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

*For the 2028 Olympics, Los Angeles will do something different: multiple logos *

LA28 logos were designed by a slew of athletes and celebrities, including Allyson Felix, Gabby Douglas and Billie Eilish 

Each collaborator was given a standard “LA28” logo and told to craft their own version of the “A.” Instead of choosing one design, organizers will use all 26, with more expected in the future. 



https://twitter.com/latimes


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## garciaccaio (Jun 8, 2016)

^^
ewww

In my opinion, this is worse than London 2012. Not even Paris 2024 is such a shame like this one. lol


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

anything is better than 2012 porn logo


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## GunnerJacket (Jan 25, 2008)

*Mod Note: *Going forward please refrain from personal attacks and stay on topic.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

garciaccaio said:


> In my opinion, this is worse than London 2012. Not even Paris 2024 is such a shame like this one. lol



No, the Lisa Simpson logo was the worst of the worse. If the 2028 committee does something like that to some aspect of the LA games (and they're possibly raring to do exactly that), I want them stripped of rights to the Olympics. But RobH's theory the 2028 committee was going to go against tradition when a logo is unveiled, not to mention also the way it's arranged, then, yep, Wasserman's people have done quite a number.

He also today said the Olympics should become more politicized and that the IOC should drop its restrictions on athletes and presumably other participants promoting their opinions. If so, I hope he isn't "nothing to see here, folks" about the Olympics being hosted by totalitarian China, about Beijing being the site of both the summer games and now the winter games.. 

The last time a lot of political sentiment was displayed rather aggressively (I believe Wasserman used the word "aggressive" in a good way too) at the Olympics was the 1936 Olympics in Berlin, Germany. We all know how that worked out.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> *For the 2028 Olympics, Los Angeles will do something different: multiple logos *
> 
> LA28 logos were designed by a slew of athletes and celebrities, including Allyson Felix, Gabby Douglas and Billie Eilish
> 
> ...


Sounds like a brilliant move. The logo is being deconstructed into a game. A perfect idea for a computer-graphics addicted world; it pulls in huge numbers of young people in a way that breakdancing is supposed to do, but without having to pretend that it is a sport.

Tying in the former athletes is a good move as well; it makes it seem like they are just cool on-line kids too (which may actually be the case). Easier to relate to than LeBron or Michael Jordan who are billionaire executives in their spare time.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

garciaccaio said:


> ^^
> ewww
> 
> In my opinion, this is worse than London 2012. Not even Paris 2024 is such a shame like this one. lol


Seriously? This is brilliant for bringing in young people. How can you object to a logo that encourages young people to participate, develop skills and let's people decide which they prefer from among the many?


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> *For the 2028 Olympics, Los Angeles will do something different: multiple logos *



Not too sure about that. On one hand, I like how it upends the business-as-usual, provincial-chamber-of-commercey aspect of Olympic tradition when it comes to logos and presentations. Or what Pesto was talking about above.

On the other hand, I like how the bid logo of the winged figure had become increasingly closely tied to 2028 and was nicely literal instead of way too abstract. Goofy-flaky-huh?! hipness has become too common over the past 30-50 years.

I'll have to see how the multi-logo concept unfolds over the months ahead in order to have a clearer opinion. For me, the jury is still out.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> A perfect idea for a computer-graphics addicted world; it pulls in huge numbers of young people in a way that breakdancing is supposed to do, but without having to pretend that it is a sport.



I'm leaning in that direction too. I like the way that another Olympics in LA may result in a few new innovations.

The 1984 logo was too corporate, the 1996 logo looked like it was the work of a housewife in Atlanta, the 2008 logo was come-see-come-saw, the 2012 logo was WTF?!!!, the 2016 logo was sort of "feh" to me, the 2020 logo was too much design-by-committee and the 2024 logo is great for promoting France's hair/beauty products. So things were becoming very stale.


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## Ioannes_ (Jun 12, 2016)

Estilo londinense 2020-gif.* No me desagrada*, pero como la *estrella de 1984, con toda la esencia pop de los 80, ninguna*, y si me apuras, es peor que la de *1932*, que también tiene su esencia americana.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Not exactly won over on the execution (i.e. the very heavy black font), but it should be fun watching how this concept evolves, who they get involved, and if it's done well should drive a lot of engagement. Cool idea.

I hope they retain the colour palette from the bid when they design the broader Look though.

Lastly, I'll post this here, as one of my earliest Olympic memories was this man in Atlanta:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1300887608336162816


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

I like this animated logo too. 

Im sure an actual traditional logo will come along in 2023. 
I also liked the color palette from its bid book. Hope they retain some of it.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Spoke to soon. Its the LOGO.
Cool.



https://la28.org/en/la-stories.html



After searching and reading.....

Its the logo.
animated.....ok. different. Cool.

28 versions by 28 persons. 
Each also created a 1:00 minute video explaining there version "A".


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> Lastly, I'll post this here, as one of my earliest Olympic memories was this man in Atlanta:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1300887608336162816



That's why I like the grab-bag, inclusive, atypical, non-city-city-city, non-country-country-country nature of the 2028 logo. 

By contrast, when I saw the 2024 logo, and its meaning was explained to the public, my reaction was, okay, she's some character associated with Paris/France/etc history. But, sorry, who the hell cares? And that was above and beyond the 2024 logo looking like something from L'oreal.

The provincialism of past games have become way too much "been there, done that." Avoiding that is particularly important for a games in Los Angeles---1984 and 2028 (and 1996 in terms of the US) being close together (although not as close as the two games of Beijing are). It's important for an Olympics that hopefully will be one where all cities, all countries, all peoples can feel some ownership in.

The opposite of that was, as one example, the 2008 games. I kept thinking, uh, is this an international, worldwide, everyone-together event or is this the China games? Or the 2012 games where I thought I was watching a UK-British-pop-stars games. Or a 2016 games, where I thought I was watching the Greta-Thunberg/Gisele Bundchen games.
.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

redspork02 said:


> 28 versions by 28 persons.
> Each also created a 1:00 minute video explaining there version "A".



I hope the winged angel figure is eventually brought back as another one the many versions of the logo. Hell, a lot of the "A"s are pushing the form of that letter, so the winged woman won't be pushing the boundaries.

Beyond that, this unveiling is kind of audacious (a bit rude?) since the 2020 (2021) and 2024 games haven't been held yet. I don't know if it's similar to a bridesmaid showing up to a wedding in all-white too. Or a patient finding a good treatment for his doctor?.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

The As have all been designed by US celebs. Some of whom I've heard of, some not. I could ask _who the hell cares_ too? It's fascinating you think how this is presented is somehow less provincial when to me it looks very inward focused... at least so far. Not that that's a problem. It is what it is.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RobH said:


> The As have all been designed by US celebs. Some of whom I've heard of, some not. I could ask _who the hell cares_ too? It's fascinating you think how this is presented is somehow less provincial when to me it looks very inward focused... at least so far.



Most of the people I've never heard of too. I get some of what you're saying. But I still like how the format tends to be more people oriented than city/country/place oriented. Yea, it riffs on the topic of a CITY'S diversity, but the format doesn't seem as self-consciously based on Los Angeles as it's based on a more general approach. Or where "LA" goes beyond simple geograpical, cultural, political boundaries. As for the latter, given what Beijing/China is all about, I should hope so.






I hope the winged angel character is brought back into the fold, since some have noted a bit of 1984 is alluded to in one of the multi-logos. I liked the 2024/2028 bid logo way more than I liked the 1984 logo.





















Another roll-out of a sense of the updated theme of 2028:






That at least sticks with a more international theme or orientation. It fits a place that I think should be one of the symbolic homes of the Olympics (Athens also?), if only because a frigging pile of money isn't required for it to be a host..


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

californiadreams said:


> Beyond that, this unveiling is kind of audacious (a bit rude?) since the 2020 (2021) and 2024 games haven't been held yet. I don't know if it's similar to a bridesmaid showing up to a wedding in all-white too.


I very much doubt this would've been done against the wishes of the IOC and - by extension - other host cities. There's normally careful respect between hosts so they don't tread on each others' toes or steal the spotlight. I wonder if my earlier speculation is right:



RobH said:


> Logo launches normally come the year before the previous Games (i.e. five years before hosting). Maybe the IOC have decided this year is too quiet for their liking without Tokyo, so things have been shuffled forward.


An easy way of creating a little bit of Olympic buzz in what should've been an Olympic year. _Everyone_ loves a logo launch, and they always get lots of mileage in the media. Of course, it would've taken a little while to develop this but maybe the IOC asked LA if they would be happy to action this as soon as they'd cancelled the Tokyo Games a few months ago?


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

A few years ago I was ripped when I entered the concept of LA reinventing itself and using 2028 as a launching point to reintroduce itself to the world as a more urban, connected place in the gamesbids forums.

I think it’s always been obvious but the video grows on this concept. Of course major infrastructure investments are the real meat behind the concept but that was also beat down as an impossibility under the guise that the Olympics were the real driver of development in LA or traditional Olympic host cities. That these items were taxpayer funded seemed to be a real deal breaker to constructive conversation as well because most of if not all the participants hadn’t really seen the benefit or the ability of a city to host a privately financed games.

Yet in LA where 5 billion dollar stadiums privately financed are now the reality, it seemed inconceivable to those on the outside looking in. But on the inside we know that LA and California do not finance sporting stadiums or arenas. Or Olympics.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

ooh I like that "'84 A" LA logo t-shirt! 28 different logos... the pin collectors will be happy! lol

I just saw the logo so still processing but I think Rob is right on this:



RobH said:


> An easy way of creating a little bit of Olympic buzz in what should've been an Olympic year. _Everyone_ loves a logo launch, and they always get lots of mileage in the media. Of course, it would've taken a little while to develop this but maybe the IOC asked LA if they would be happy to action this as soon as they'd cancelled the Tokyo Games a few months ago?


With Tokyo 2020 obviously not in the spotlight at the moment, and with Paris already having debuted the 2024 logo, this is an easy and fun way to create Olympic buzz and I think the IOC was happy to get some positive non-controversial buzz out there.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

Also... If I can get a touch political for a moment...

This is not a particularly great time for the USA, there is a lot of things wrong with us at the moment (_and I'll leave it at that_) and America is definitely not in a great place, not to mention the world at large. While obviously a fortnight of sports eight years from now is not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things, hopefully LA 2028 and the Olympics as a whole can be a something of a bright light in this moment and a reminder that better days are ahead not just for this country but for the world


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

aquamaroon said:


> ooh I like that "'84 A" LA logo t-shirt! 28 different logos... the pin collectors will be happy! lol
> 
> I just saw the logo so still processing but I think Rob is right on this:
> 
> ...


Agree with all this. Even the haters here should be very happy since they will have an endless supply of "bad taste" or "declasse" logos to vent their wrath on. I expect frequent input from them. lol.

As for the celebrity connection: that may be more a case of "involvement" in the process than in generating the actual design. PR people everywhere understand the usefulness of mentioning celebrities in their releases. I did work for a major perfume company who had brands with the names of celebrity designers, and the designers had no actual input in the selection of the fragrance; that was done by professional "noses".


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

aquamaroon said:


> Also... If I can get a touch political for a moment...
> 
> This is not a particularly great time for the USA, there is a lot of things wrong with us at the moment (_and I'll leave it at that_) and America is definitely not in a great place, not to mention the world at large. While obviously a fortnight of sports eight years from now is not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things, hopefully LA 2028 and the Olympics as a whole can be a something of a bright light in this moment and a reminder that better days are ahead not just for this country but for the world


Agree with this as well. At this point is it almost de rigueur to talk about how deeply you support social justice even when it is off-subject. It is kind of ridiculous to compare this with Hitler, the Russians or Chinese, who were (or are) part of an institutionalized military and political structure that dictates policy over decades.

I remember when "All power to the people", "Right on" and "Burn, baby," were signals of your connection to the masses and was shouted out even by the wealthy as an indication of their sympathies (in spite of their continuing business as usual).


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

I noticed a couple of "A's" were not designed by a athlete/celebrity......
No name attached....maybe these were the firsts.....designed by a agency. 

1) Camo A
2) Prism A
3) Equality A
4) Varsity A
5) Street Art A
5) Gradient Script A


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

It’s been noted that the 2 and the 8 are different fonts. I wonder if there is a story behind it.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Bought some Nike Merchandise this morning. Less items then there were yesterday............Selling quickly? or limited items? They didn't have my size! GRRRR lol

Pins are between $8.99 and $14.99...... 😱😦😧 Pricy. $$$$


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

I saw a link at gamesbid.com to this person's graphics work:



https://maravc.myportfolio.com/2028-olympics-branding



She put a lot of time and effort into her idea of a 2028 logo. More abstract and conventional, as all Olympic logos have been. So from that standpoint, it's same ol', same ol. But it comes off better to me than certainly the more recent ones have been. I prefer it to 1984. Would be nice if the 2028 committee adds her work to all the other ones, although it doesn't look like an A. Maybe if they turn it sideways?

The multi-design logo concept the 2028 committee came up with, however, is needed. The traditional logo format going back decades has grown stale. Beyond that, even the angel-woman LA bid logo is nicely figurative compared with the 2020, 2024, etc, formal abstract one.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Nice, but the real emphasis should be on what the Olympics brand and movement stand for not paraphernalia relevant to individual cities. They have a few weeks of exposure and then are headed to the scrapbooks.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Meanwhile:









Oxford study: Tokyo Olympics are most costly Summer Games


The Tokyo Olympics are already the most expensive Summer Games on record with costs set to go higher, a wide-ranging study from Britain's University of Oxford indicates.




www.startribune.com





This is one reason why I get so pissed at the business-as-usual, traveling-circus format of the Olympics. It's why I was so irritated when the 2028 (originally 2024) organizers a few years ago were thinking about building an Olympic village on the side of the LA River in downtown LA.

It's why I was really annoyed when an urban/design commentator associated with LA did a piece not too long ago that criticized the city and LA committee for not thinking bigger and splashier for the 2028 Olympic games.

Hey, people, the games are a two-week-long sporting event for athletes, coaches, sports federations, entourages and others associated with the IOC. No more, no less. If things like SoFi Stadium were built expressly for an Olympics, I'd want the guilty party to be slapped upside their heads and then their heads to roll..



> The Tokyo Olympics are already the most expensive Summer Games on record with costs set to go higher, a wide-ranging study from Britain's University of Oxford indicates. The Tokyo cost overrun already exceeds 200%, lead author Bent Flyvbjerg explained in an interview with The Associated Press. This is even before several billion more dollars are added on from the one-year delay from the COVID-19 pandemic.
> 
> In his paper, Flyvbjerg cites Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti, whose city is to hold the 2028 Olympics following Paris in 2024.
> 
> ...


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## potiz81 (Aug 9, 2005)

Bad idea, horrible logos. What a lost chance...


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

> Bad idea, horrible logos. What a lost chance...


Good Idea to make money. Sales will be high in merch.

also:

26 Logos? Why not 28? hmmmmmm are we waiting for two more?


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

redspork02 said:


> 26 Logos? Why not 28? hmmmmmm are we waiting for two more?



There are actually already 11 more:









LANE ONE: LA28 introduces 11 more logos and merchandise store; Judge orders USA Gymnastics settlement conference - The Sports Examiner


(★ Friends: Your 65 generous donations have paid our semi-annual server and support costs, and started to help with December’s bill. If you would like to help, please donate here. Your interest and support are the reasons this site continues. ★) Tuesday’s colorful launch of the LA28 emblem...




www.thesportsexaminer.com







> On Wednesday, a full line-up of 39 LA28 merchandise items was displayed – using 11 new emblems – in the new *LA28 online store*, using the Fanatics sales engine and featuring Nike-branded apparel. You can buy:
> 
> Of the 26 emblems that debuted on Tuesday, only one was used on the first set of merchandise: the hands-in-hands design by streetwear star _*Bobby Hundreds* _(Bobby Kim). Most of the items featured new “A” logos not shown at the launch, but covering the familiar ground expected, as shown in the first pin set of the 2028 Games, shown on *Twitter* by Olympic Broadcast Service chief executive _*Yiannis Exarchos *_(GRE):[/QUOTE}


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

potiz81 said:


> Bad idea, horrible logos. What a lost chance...



I can see your angle too. I'd have more of that same opinion if the past few decades of the Olympics hadn't grown way too much "been there, done that."

The logo for 2012 in particular was too much "oh-oh," the 2024 logo was in the category of "huh?," etc. Then there were the controversies with the 2020 design, which moved too close to "yawn...okay." By contrast, the 1964 logo struck just the right big-time tone.

In general, the logos sticking with the traditional one-only format of various games for the past few decades have grown way too flaky, goofy or same ol', same ol.'

Then there are various games' mascots. Oh-oh. Sheesh.

A re-thinking and change have become necessary.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

potiz81 said:


> Bad idea, horrible logos. What a lost chance...


Without further comment I would consider this trolling, Maybe you could explain your thinking?


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

I notice the 2020 and 2024 web sites downplay their host cities more than the 2028 site does. That's an interesting possible trend, assuming it's not inadvertent. Or where the Olympic brand becomes more important than anything else. They all do quite a bit of cross-referencing of other games - past or future - less so for the 2028 page.

I also notice the 2028 site seems to somewhat downplay SoFi Stadium---at least by not adjusting for its more recent naming rights, from "LA stadium" to "SoFi." Seemed like they played up Kroenke's place a bit more in their bid material.

The 2020 site has the most translations in other languages, 2024 the fewest. The sales-promotion angle already seems more active for 2028, while the 2024 people are promoting a "join the club" angle. 2028 also has more interactive HTML formatting with a floating ball as a pointer. I recall their bid site was criticized by some people as having too much whiz-bang interactivity. YMMV.

I also read somewhere in an article about Casey Wasserman saying that an Olympics will squeak by if at least bad decisions aren't made. Amen.









Tokyo 2020 Summer Olympics - Athletes, Medals & Results


Relive the moments that went down in history at the 2020 summer Olympics in Tokyo. Access official videos, results, galleries, sport and athletes.




tokyo2020.org










Paris 2024 - Main Page


Site officiel du comité d'organisation des Jeux Olympiques et Paralympiques de Paris 2024




www.paris2024.org







https://www.la28.org


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## potiz81 (Aug 9, 2005)

pesto said:


> Without further comment I would consider this trolling, Maybe you could explain your thinking?


First of all, there is no obvious point to have more than 1 logo. Let alone 20+. But the big issue, is the poor aesthetics. Most of these logos look ok for a local COMICON event, but they are far from adequate for the world's biggest sports event.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/olympics-2028-logo-1.5708706




Here are the 26 (25?)












Here are the Six that didn't have a "Creator".....They are not listed on the 26 count we spoke of earlier.

1) and 2).









3) and 4)










5) the Equality "A".
6) The Grafiti "A".


-------------------

But I do see a five new ones.....
Basketball "A". 
Red bold "A".
Skull face "A".
LA 84 "A". 
and space shuttle "A".

So that makes 11 without creators.  good eye.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

potiz81 said:


> First of all, there is no obvious point to have more than 1 logo. Let alone 20+. But the big issue, is the poor aesthetics. Most of these logos look ok for a local COMICON event, but they are far from adequate for the world's biggest sports event.


No obvious point: not true; it was intended to stimulate participation and discussion (btw, it is succeeding quite well)
Poor aesthetics: this is purely subjective; applicable to yourself but not to others except by coincidence. 

In any event, don't fall into the old aristocratic theory that the Olympics have some holiness about them as if handed down form Olympus or brought to man by Neptune from his fabulous undersea kingdom. It's just another show, like county fairs, circuses, sports tournaments, etc. The idea is to attract public interest and use it to generate income. That's why NBC, sponsors, PR firms (logos, mascots, etc.) get involved.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

californiadreams said:


> I also notice the 2028 site seems to somewhat downplay SoFi Stadium---at least by not adjusting for its more recent naming rights, from "LA stadium" to "SoFi."


Olympic venues do not carry sponsorship. In London the O2 was renamed the "North Greenwich Arena" for the Olympics and one of the regional venues for football, the Ricoh Arena was renamed "City of Coventry Stadium" for the duration.

The IOC clean venue policy means naming rights signage will need to be removed or covered over in 2028 too.

You'll note Banc Of California Stadium is called "LA Football Club Stadium" on the LA28 website too and the UA sponsorship of the Coliseum isn't mentioned. Same reason.









What United Airlines will NOT get from LA Coliseum naming-rights deal - Chicago Business Journal


The agreement will boost United's image in Los Angeles, but it doesn't include one major event slated for L.A.




www.bizjournals.com





Weirdly, there are a few venues on the website which are listed with sponsor names, but they'll have to change. I guess they haven't got round to thinking of the new names yet.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

In the Sofi Stadium thread they were "discussing" if the stadium can actually hold 100,000 for special events. as stated. The debate went on ........

The LA28.org website has the "LA Stadium at Hollywood Park" total capacity at 85,000 seats for its event.
so......


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

OK, I'm ready for the next step: why doesn't Paris invite people to create variations on their insipid "teenager with a hairdo" logo? I would be shocked if there weren't 100 variations on it that had more vitality, interest and attraction than the one selected. Inspirations from ancient Egypt to Pussy Riot to gender bending. 

C'mon, Paris: design capital of the world?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

redspork02 said:


> In the Sofi Stadium thread they were "discussing" if the stadium can actually hold 100,000 for special events. as stated. The debate went on ........
> 
> The LA28.org website has the "LA Stadium at Hollywood Park" total capacity at 85,000 seats for its event.
> so......


I don't really care how many it seats but that number could reflect the reduction for press, VIP seating and adjustments to create more room for the show.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

Gotta love this thread. 🤪 😆

A $3bn super stadium that'll be the centrepiece of the Los Angeles Games has just opened and you're all pissing and moaning off-topic rather than filling the thread with photos.

We were told LA28 would be different from previous Games and, credit where it's due, this thread is _definitely_ different from previous Games' threads.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

In any event, SoFi is getting enough coverage on its own thread plus the coverage it got from being the first Sunday night venue for the 2020 season. And, it's funny to think that it will be 8 years old and pretty much old hat by the time of the LA Games.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

I suspect people affiliated with the IOC and LAOOC on occasion drop by sites like gamesbid.com, since people with certain interests and responsibilities probably like to keep their eyes open and ears to the ground. Gamesbid.com's forum is mainly a field of brief quips, putdowns and other troll-like junk. I hope people-in-the-know won't overlook this forum.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> This is particularly odd in the case of Boyle, who is an outstanding film director with awards from around the world and productions that are among the best in world film history.



I admit to now realizing that Boyle correctly judged the song "Hey, Jude" and the word "jude" as a symbol of people and places everywhere, throughout the world. Damn, he's a creative genius.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Btw, people from Olympics organizations do not occasionally drop by these sites. They hire professional analysts at 10's of millions a year to run studies by demographic criteria they have developed. And if they did drop by, they are likely to say "Hey, there's a guy here who hates Danny Boyle" to which someone replies "what a loser; Slumdog Millionaire won a million academy awards, Sunshine is a favorite movie of sci fi buffs around the world; Trainspotting is cutting social satire and one of the top British movies ever made; and the two zombie movies are classics of their genre. Is this guy totally disconnected from Western culture?"


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Incidentally, I preferred 2012's "Hey, Jude" to 1984's fanfare. Boyle, after all, is such a creative genius, who I hope has great influence on the 2028 committee.

As for influence, the Covid-affected opening of SoFi Stadium yesterday is also something I hope people like Wasserman are greatly inspired by. The venues of 2016, where people were sometimes dressed up as empty seats, were very inspiring and should be another Boyle-type template for 2028.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

I do enjoy this thread, Rob. And quite frankly I hope it is different as it should be. Here is a great example of how it’s different. 

Oxford said LA had risks but was on the right path. At the same time they went after the IOC for costs and when the IOC responded they weren’t shy firing back. It was quite eloquent the response which I think this thread could use more of rather than name calling or drive by remarks about how a thread is different. It’s refreshing when people can talk and disagree, avoid name calling and maybe, if they aren’t living in their own tunnel vision, learn something. 





__





Redirect Notice






www.google.com













War of words between IOC and Oxford mega-project expert escalates


The Oxford-based mega-project specialist behind a new study on Olympic costs has escalated a war of words with the International Olympic Committee (IO...




www.insidethegames.biz


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RuFFy said:


> Oxford said LA had risks but was on the right path. At the same time they went after the IOC for costs and when the IOC responded they weren’t shy firing back. It was quite eloquent the response which I think this thread could use more of rather than name calling or drive by remarks about how a thread is different.


That study was quite an eye opener based on the segment below, which I originally assumed was a major reason why the listed cost of a lot of games had been so high, perhaps unfairly or excessively so. Or based on the assumption that the price tag of the 1984 games, as one example, included the cost of updating LAX or the addition of the Bradley Terminal. Calculating the expenses of an Olympics in that manner would be bogus.



> "For clarification, we do the *exact opposite* of what the IOC claims we do: our numbers include *only* the *direct sports-related costs* of the Games. "The wider infrastructure budgets of the city, region and country - which, as you know, are often several times higher than the sports-related costs – are left entirely out of our numbers, as stated on [page] 20 of our paper.


If the 2028 LAOOC makes a mess of their budget, that will be as pathetic as what the Japanese national government and Tokyo municipal one are apparently doing to the 2020 Olympics. All for what? A 2-week sporting event? 

Moreover, the hosts of the 2020, 2024, 2028 games and also for games like 2012 don't need to do a ridiculous PR campaign. Or act as though they're second-tier cities/nations. A Barcelona, Atlanta, Rio, Munich, Pyeongchang‎, Osaka, etc, may justify some of that, but not larger, more well-known cities.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Replying to Aquamaroon's comment re aquatics' faciilties in Paris:

I believe that Dedeaux Field and the LB waterfront parks are going to be the main aquatics areas. Afaik, these will be outdoors (or possibly tented?). Why would you want to go indoors instead? That's OK if the temperature is below freezing but not when it is likely to be between 70 and 90 with light breezes and everyone is wearing shorts and tank tops..

Btw, the LB events are supposed to be the heart of a 10-day beach party atmosphere that will have music, opportunities to learn and participate in sports and general revelry well into the night. Clippers arena is going to be great but still, LB has a dozen water sports, BMX and other events.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

aquamaroon said:


> Gotcha! Thanks for the clarification Rob; just as a quick 2028 aside I've also thought about if LA could do what Paris may do: repurpose an arena as an Aquatics venue. There's a brand new arena being planned next to SoFi stadium in Inglewood by the Clippers of the NBA team that wasn't in the original bid and would currently be sitting empty in 2028. Perhaps that could end up, like the La Defense Arena, as an Aquatics center? ...Anyways I'm done talking about LA 2028 here! Feel free anyone who'd like to continue this talk to meet in that thread.



Okay, I'll take you up on that. If the Clippers do build their arena, that will probably leave more indoor-type sports facilities with open courts in the LA area than necessary. Or more basketball/gymnastic/judo/wrestling/boxing, etc venues than necessary. But not an indoor arena specifically for, and that has the hardware for, swimming.

Not a big demand for such buildings, particularly with space for a lot of seating. Part of that is due to LA having the weather it does, so indoor swim facilities do seem extraneous.

The outdoor setup at USC in 1984 didn't seem too low rent, and a sunny, outdoor pool actually fits the nature of swimming better than an indoor one does. But since LA has so many miscellaneous sports facilities, the check list would be admittedly more complete with, for example, adding something similar to the swim stadium built in Atlanta for the 1996 games. Regardless, don't bust the budget. So if a swim venue has to be totally temporary, keep it that way..


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

I was reminded this morning (via this unfortunate story) that a 360 degree 'screen' has been an aspect of a major ceremony already. Nothing like as advanced as the Occulus, but Delhi had the Aerostat suspended over its stadium for the 2010 Commonwealth Games...






Sign in







stufish.com.hyssop.arvixe.com














Despite the chaos surrounding the organisation of those Games, I remember the ceremonies being pretty decent (and Olympic in scale). I wonder if LA28 will look at what worked and what didn't with the Aerostat when they start looking at how they're going to make best use of the Occulus in their own ceremonies.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> I was reminded this morning (via this unfortunate story) that a 360 degree 'screen' has been an aspect of a major ceremony already. Nothing like as advanced as the Occulus, but Delhi had the Aerostat suspended over its stadium for the 2010 Commonwealth Games...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seems like technology has changed a lot since that was done (and will change even more by the time that 2028 rolls around and the Oculus has gotten materials and systems upgrades). Eventually there are supposed to be hologram shows and holograms to order in individual suites, among other things.

It will also be interesting how many new stadiums that are hopeful of hosting will put similar (or better) electronics in place to expand the choices and improve the experience..


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## Nacre (May 9, 2016)

californiadreams said:


> Not a big demand for such buildings, particularly with space for a lot of seating. Part of that is due to LA having the weather it does, so indoor swim facilities do seem extraneous.


And it's not only the indoor part that is problematic. NCAA pools are 25 _yards_ wide vs the 25 _meters_ wide required for international competitions. So the swimming stadiums at UCLA and USC would not be viable even with conversion into temporary arenas.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Nacre said:


> And it's not only the indoor part that is problematic. NCAA pools are 25 _yards_ wide vs the 25 _meters_ wide required for international competitions. So the swimming stadiums at UCLA and USC would not be viable even with conversion into temporary arenas.


Last I heard USC had a "long course" pool * which is 50m x 25m, as part of their swimming complex. Seating is limited, however.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

Yep, you guys are both right! While NCAA pools are 25x25 yards wide, Pesto is correct in saying the USC Uytengsu Aquatics Center has an Olympic sized "long course" pool at 50 meters long. Here is a good shot showing the pool separated in half so it's NCAA size for a USC swim event:














The center also has an Olympic regulation diving facility next to the main pool. That said it's not really a great option for the Olympics as it is not expandable for crowds giving the constraints of the site. Also, again for the Olympics last I saw FINA requires an indoor venue for swimming and diving (_those things are always fungible though of course_) It WILL however make a great practice facility for the temporary stadium at Dedeaux Field next door:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

aquamaroon said:


> Yep, you guys are both right! While NCAA pools are 25x25 yards wide, Pesto is correct in saying the USC Uytengsu Aquatics Center has an Olympic sized "long course" pool at 50 meters long. Here is a good shot showing the pool separated in half so it's NCAA size for a USC swim event:


He was actually talking about the WIDTH of the pool being 25 yds. But otherwise, I'm on-board.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

Ah my bad! But yeah the pool at Uytengsu is officially a long course pool listed at 25 meters wide, which equals ~27 yards. Interesting enough, the diving pool is listed in Imperial units at 25x25 yards as opposed to the pool which is listed in metric, source here: Uytengsu Aquatics Center - Wikipedia


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

aquamaroon said:


> It WILL however make a great practice facility for the temporary stadium at Dedeaux Field next door:



Looking at videos from 1984, notice how what's now the Uytengsu Aquatics Center was the very basic McDonald's pool in LA's last Olympics. In the opening shot, you can see the background towards the left, between the platform and the grandstand. A part of USC's campus didn't even have some of its electrical equipment out of sight. But the crowds and friendly look of a sunny setting helped offset the modest-budget nature of the venue.

If 2016 had at least (1) good attendance or (2) a reasonable budget, those games would have gone up a few notches in quality. There are, however, a lot of other moving parts that make a Olympic games either reach a grade A, grade B, grade C or lower. Some of those things will be judged differently by sports writers, spectators, the IOC and TV viewers. But here's to hoping 2028 can manage to tick off as many goals as the 1984 games did..


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

I'm afraid that comparing Games is far too subjective to be of interest to anyone but really bored old men. It is something experienced as an individual, not as a definable group. Some will have a great time, some an OK time and others will spout the usual pettiness (and absurdities) that is so common on-line.


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## Nacre (May 9, 2016)

Moreover politics like the boycotts at Montreal, Moscow and Los Angeles and freak occurrences like the Munich and Atlanta terrorist attacks will also define the games despite the fact the host cities have little control over them.

Host cities should try to do their best and not worry about one-upmanship. "The important thing in life is not to triumph, but to compete."


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## Nacre (May 9, 2016)

While that is true, I think it has led to lavish spending on venues, media village, decorations to make things look good on television, the elaborate ceremonies for the televised audience, et al rather than increasing the number of athletes. And even the addition of other sports has happened in part to please countries like outside of Europe like Japan and Korea (with judo and taekwondo).

There are certainly sports that can be cut from the Olympic program. (Association football, basketball, golf, rugby, boxing, weightlifting and modern pentathlon are all very questionable Olympic sports.) But there are valid reasons why the number of athletes per sport has increased. Giving spots to women and to athletes from countries like Kenya, Oman and Cambodia is a necessity in the modern world, and it simply is not possible to go back to the athlete participation rate of the early Olympics even if the IOC really wanted to.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Nacre said:


> The IOC has done some dumb stuff. But there are very legitimate reasons why there are way more athletes today than in the past.



The increasingly bloated nature of the Olympics, however, is following the phenomenon of, for example, so-called grade inflation occurring in academia. Or where an A grade in 2020 is yesterday's B or C. Or where a 10 today is yesterday's 7 or 8. 

But measuring the level of accomplishment of athletic performance is admittedly more objective than subjective. But even there, the tendency to bloat and inflate is creeping in. For example, sports where DNA males are increasingly being allowed to compete head-on with DNA females. Or another form of grade inflation.

If current trends continue, such as Casey Wasserman wanting more, not less, politics allowed into the Olympics, who knows what 2028 will be like? But the NFL and NBA inserting more politics into their operations apparently have worked out really well. Yea, uh-huh.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Nacre said:


> While that is true, I think it has led to lavish spending on venues, media village, decorations to make things look good on television, the elaborate ceremonies for the televised audience, et al rather than increasing the number of athletes. And even the addition of other sports has happened in part to please countries like outside of Europe like Japan and Korea (with judo and taekwondo).
> 
> There are certainly sports that can be cut from the Olympic program. (Association football, basketball, golf, rugby, boxing, weightlifting and modern pentathlon are all very questionable Olympic sports.) But there are valid reasons why the number of athletes per sport has increased. Giving spots to women and to athletes from countries like Kenya, Oman and Cambodia is a necessity in the modern world, and it simply is not possible to go back to the athlete participation rate of the early Olympics even if the IOC really wanted to.


It is certainly possible; it's just not profitable. It is easy to have eliminations before the Olympics,.but it is better for local ratings if a third rate America or Indonesian or Chinese athlete is there than if he weren't..


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## GunnerJacket (Jan 25, 2008)

pesto said:


> This should go in the general discussion thread.


If it strays too far or too long I'll move it.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

GunnerJacket said:


> If it strays too far or too long I'll move it.


Or if there is any mention of the London Olympics or Sebastian Coe? lol.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

GunnerJacket said:


> If it strays too far or too long I'll move it.



What needs to be done is to consolidate a lot of the Olympic threads. There isn't all that much news or conversation coming out of even the 2020 games (due in part to the language barrier), so sub-categories of sub-categories aren't necessary: Tokyo, Paris and LA could easily fit into one thread with room to spare.

There also isn't enough interest in the topic to justify so many side threads. One regular seems to be the only one who pops up all the time in most of these threads. But other than him, there are very few others. He implied I post to get feedback, but I'm mainly talking and thinking to myself.

I'm hoping someone with the LAOOC wanders into this thread over the next several years and comes upon certain opinions or ideas he or she might not find elsewhere.

BTW, I mentioned how the former go-to producer of Olympic documentaries, Bud Greenspan, and his narrator (a guy named Dave Perry) set the tone in the presentation of the games in past years. Something tells me his/their style is going to seem too formal and big-time pretentious in the 2020s. Just a hunch.


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## GunnerJacket (Jan 25, 2008)

Each event deserves its own thread for when that topic alone is in demand. The only reason any event thread has the discussion space to wander is when that event is so far out there is little to talk about at the moment, but that always changes as you get closer to the games actually being played and the venues being used for the event.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Reactions to L.A. 2028's Olympics Logo - Well Done Marketing


Well Done Marketing’s creative team offers its thoughts on Los Angeles’s 2028 Olympics logo.




www.welldonemarketing.com





Here's something relating to the 2028 Olympics and not to personal fixations. 

The article Is probably right in that tastes can change easily (that's why they are called "tastes" not "physical laws"). Some people won't accept that and feel they should like something that they actually stopped liking long ago. Here you can change as often as you like without guilt..


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

GunnerJacket said:


> Each event deserves its own thread for when that topic alone is in demand.



Not just the threads on the Olympics, but on "skyscraper" or "sports" subjects in general, and in other forums too, threads, sub-threads, categories and sub-categories grow like crabgrass. I went to a message board earlier this year that focused on current topics but I couldn't believe the way the operator had carved up one category and turned it into a million. One thread or category would have made it easier to get through and find things.

Having fewer detours or side streets in a forum also helps keep the conversation going.


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## slipperydog (Jul 19, 2009)

LAX announces timeline for two new terminals, which are planned for completion by 2027.

Delta and American are also completely overhauling their terminals as well. The long-awaited automated people mover train system is expected to be done by 2023.









































LAX Expansion Plan Takes a Step Forward


Construction could begin by the end of 2021 on the initial phases of an expansion project which could bring new passenger gates to Los Angeles International Airport.




urbanize.la


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

NOlympics claim Los Angeles 2028 will "exacerbate the crisis" in the US

LA Olympics will continue the oppression of the poor, racism, etc. Militarization of the police is one of the fixations of this particular group.

Also some digs at Trump, but doesn’t look like he will be an issue in 2028.


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## Nacre (May 9, 2016)

1) It was really the North Hollywood shootout that caused the mass adoption of military equipment by police in the USA, not the 1984 Olympics.
2) Because the Olympics are inevitably a tourist target (see Eric Rudolph) there is an increased police presence at Olympic venues. But that is different from police targeting minorities.


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## JohnDee (May 20, 2015)

slipperydog said:


> LAX announces timeline for two new terminals, which are planned for completion by 2027.
> 
> Delta and American are also completely overhauling their terminals as well. The long-awaited automated people mover train system is expected to be done by 2023.
> 
> ...


interesting terminal shape


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Nacre said:


> 1) It was really the North Hollywood shootout that caused the mass adoption of military equipment by police in the USA, not the 1984 Olympics.
> 2) Because the Olympics are inevitably a tourist target (see Eric Rudolph) there is an increased police presence at Olympic venues. But that is different from police targeting minorities.


I agree. As a practical matter, at the Olympics federal security will start well before the games and focus on terrorism, cybercrimes, remote attacks and such that local police could not effectively handle. It will NOT be an upgrading of the weaponry or tactics of the local police.

The police will hopefully have appropriate weapons available but they are not even vaguely comparable to the military. In war the first responders are typically 100’s of airborne troops with assault weapons and missile and bombing support. It is often preceded by days or weeks of targeted or carpet bombing.

In police work the first responder is an ordinary police car with two officers with standard issue weapons. If confronted with heavy weapons, hostages, etc., they call for appropriate levels of back-up.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

JohnDee said:


> interesting terminal shape


It was found in a back drawer in Zaha Hadid's old office.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

slipperydog said:


> LAX announces timeline for two new terminals, which are planned for completion by 2027.
> 
> Delta and American are also completely overhauling their terminals as well. The long-awaited automated people mover train system is expected to be done by 2023.



Thanks for posting that. I didn't realize that LAX was going to push way east of the current horseshoe and go past Sepulveda. That model looks like the sono-tube light fixtures, currently east of the old control tower, will be removed. Having terminals spaced far apart means travelers aren't as jammed together in an airport. But that also makes it harder for LAX to have a larger potential customer base for its spread-out concessionaires, mainly shops but less so food places. .

BTW, the subject of LAX doesn't have to do with the Olympics per se, the 2028 games in particular, but it's why these threads are better when they're a grab-bag of direct and indirect subjects related to the games and a host city.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> Thanks for posting that. I didn't realize that LAX was going to push way east of the current horseshoe and go past Sepulveda. That model looks like the sono-tube light fixtures, currently east of the old control tower, will be removed. Having terminals spaced far apart means travelers aren't as jammed together in an airport. But that also makes it harder for LAX to have a larger potential customer base for its spread-out concessionaires, mainly shops but less so food places. .
> 
> BTW, the subject of LAX doesn't have to do with the Olympics per se, the 2028 games in particular, but it's why these threads are better when they're a grab-bag of direct and indirect subjects related to the games and a host city.


I would say the threads are NOT better when they are a grab bag of personal fixations having nothing to do with the subject (e.g., issues with other Olympics, transgender people, particular persons, etc.).

LAX improvements are VERY relevant to the Olympics; a significant portion of the review of cities is the availability and coordination of transportation, lodging and venues.  The current "landside" improvements are planned to be done in time for the Games, which is a very good thing. It appears these new ones will still be in process so I would hope that LAWA explains how they will isolate any continuing work so as to avoid interfering with visitors.


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## Xhaka (Mar 10, 2017)

How costly is gonna be this olympics? More costly than the Rio one?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Xhaka said:


> How costly is gonna be this olympics? More costly than the Rio one?


Very briefly, probably about 6B in today's dollars. It is believed that these will be covered by revenues and in any event are private funds. The city is on the hook for about 250M of "contingencies" which the organizers believe will not occur.

Since this is a multi-national event, security is covered by the Federal government. .


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Xhaka said:


> How costly is gonna be this olympics? More costly than the Rio one?



They had better not be. Rio 2016 spent big bucks and I don't have any more positive impressions of that place after the 2016 games than before. Actually, I have a more negative one.

If anything, the IOC's quadrennial event cast more attention on Rio's negative features dating back well before the Olympics. Such as water pollution, corruption, the city's favelas/crime. If those games had succeeded in at least one of 3 key areas (budget, attendance or planning---housing, ceremonies, etc), that would have helped offset the non-Olympics-related negatives..

This intro to the 1984 games shows how a host city can get some shaky attention as much as positive: Notice how ABC's broadcaster describes LA at the 4:17 mark: "An imperfect city in an imperfect world."


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## Xhaka (Mar 10, 2017)

californiadreams said:


> They had better not be. Rio 2016 spent big bucks and I don't have any more positive impressions of that place after the 2016 games than before. Actually, I have a more negative one.
> 
> If anything, the IOC's quadrennial event cast more attention on Rio's negative features dating back well before the Olympics. Such as water pollution, corruption, the city's favelas/crime. If those games had succeeded in at least one of 3 key areas (budget, attendance or planning---housing, ceremonies, etc), that would have helped offset the non-Olympics-related negatives..
> 
> This intro to the 1984 games shows how a host city can get some shaky attention as much as positive: Notice how ABC's broadcaster describes LA at the 4:17 mark: "An imperfect city in an imperfect world."


80's were the time for US and for California after World Cup 94 its the most memorable time in history of sports, its gonna be magnificent for 2028 to goona be held in LA!


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## JohnDee (May 20, 2015)

californiadreams said:


> They had better not be. Rio 2016 spent big bucks and I don't have any more positive impressions of that place after the 2016 games than before. Actually, I have a more negative one.
> 
> If anything, the IOC's quadrennial event cast more attention on Rio's negative features dating back well before the Olympics. Such as water pollution, corruption, the city's favelas/crime. If those games had succeeded in at least one of 3 key areas (budget, attendance or planning---housing, ceremonies, etc), that would have helped offset the non-Olympics-related negatives..
> 
> This intro to the 1984 games shows how a host city can get some shaky attention as much as positive: Notice how ABC's broadcaster describes LA at the 4:17 mark: "An imperfect city in an imperfect world."


Wow.. LA must have had a lot of problems in 1984. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement.


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## Tered (Apr 28, 2016)

JohnDee said:


> Wow.. LA must have had a lot of problems in 1984. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement.


Actually it was during this time that the bloods & crips rivalry were at its highest.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Tered said:


> Actually it was during this time that the bloods & crips rivalry were at its highest.


Around then was the explosion of crack usage and the fight for control of the billions of dollars of profits. It made Crips, Bloods, rap, Inglewood, Compton, etc. famous.

But you were pretty safe unless you were a gang member or liked to buy drugs for cash in an alleyway at 2:00 in the morning.


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## Tered (Apr 28, 2016)

Please Delete


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## Tered (Apr 28, 2016)

pesto said:


> Around then was the explosion of crack usage and the fight for control of the billions of dollars of profits. It made Crips, Bloods, rap, Inglewood, Compton, etc. famous.
> 
> But you were pretty safe unless you were a gang member or liked to buy drugs for cash in an alleyway at 2:00 in the morning.





Tered said:


> Safe as long you're a gang member?
> How about them drive by shootings?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

I don't have any stats but I assume drive-bys were typically aimed at other gang members or those with some strong connection to the shooter..

Btw, just had a reverse one in Bel Air, where an LA gang rented an Airbnb house. A member of another gang saw their social media posts and showed up to dis them and was shot multiple times for his trouble.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

JohnDee said:


> Wow.. LA must have had a lot of problems in 1984. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement.



That's why the Olympics are like a game of Russian Roulette or house of cards. Both for the host city and the organizers themselves. Anything or everything can go wrong or work against the success of an Olympics.

Rio 2016 showed how the games don't really enhance the prestige of a city, and London 2012 showed how the Olympics are but a drip in the ocean of an already great city. If anything, those two ocassions furthered the sense of, "all this for a two-week event? Ya gotta be kidding me!"

LA 1984 did well in spite of it being hosted by an "imperfect city," largely because the LAOOC kept its budget under control (and even made a profit), had generally good attendance (although not as large as that of Atlanta 1996 or London 2012) and kept its symbolic bookends (mainly 1984's opening ceremony) largely free from too much goofiness. It also escaped the unpredictable factor of terrorism.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> That's why the Olympics are like a game of Russian Roulette or house of cards. Both for the host city and the organizers themselves. Anything or everything can go wrong or work against the success of an Olympics.
> 
> Rio 2016 showed how the games don't really enhance the prestige of a city, and London 2012 showed how the Olympics are but a drip in the ocean of an already great city. If anything, those two ocassions furthered the sense of, "all this for a two-week event? Ya gotta be kidding me!"
> 
> LA 1984 did well in spite of it being hosted by an "imperfect city," largely because the LAOOC kept its budget under control (and even made a profit), had generally good attendance (although not as large as that of Atlanta 1996 or London 2012) and kept its symbolic bookends (mainly 1984's opening ceremony) largely free from too much goofiness. It also escaped the unpredictable factor of terrorism.


I’m not sure how keeping to budget helps with crime, plague, earthquake, terrorism, etc. It’s a good idea for any project to have a budget, but not a cure-all

And your spin onto Atlanta, London, Rio, goofy opening ceremonies, the prestige of hosting the Olympics, etc., doesn’t seem to be very relevant re LA social issues, crime, etc., in 2028.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

I watched this video of coverage from the last day of the 1984 games and saw people spanning over 52 years, from 1932 to 1984. It will be 40 years if a similar format occurs on the last day of the games in 2028. Tom Bradley in the public sector helped give the 84 Olympics in LA a certain tone that Peter Uberroth gave it in the private sector. I hope their counterparts for 2028 (the person who succeeds Eric Garcetti and Casey Wasserman) give the next summer games in the US the right tone too.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

City Council Plan Would Use LA Convention Center, Future Olympics Site, As Temporary Homeless Shelter

Not good. Once they are in, the urban progressives will organize demonstrations to keep it as housing permanently.

Could Staples, SoFi, etc., face a similar fate? Maybe all sports can be in bubbles for the future with the former stadiums converted to housing?


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

hyperbolic much? ^^


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## en1044 (May 4, 2008)

Edit nvm


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

redspork02 said:


> hyperbolic much? ^^


I hope so. But the future is not determined; it's what people allow to happen.

I can easily see demonstrations when there is talk of removing the thousands of women, children, veterans, etc., that have no place else to go. Then Soldiers of Justice build barricades and arm the residents. Some political party picks up the theme and raises the question of why public facilities are not used for the PUBLIC good instead of for the good of billionaires.

It happened in the '60's all the time with occupation of 100's of buildings, military facilities, nuclear plants, etc. In the '90's my son and many others chained themselves to trees to block projects. And remember the Occupy Movement just a few years ago? With today's social media it's easy to round up 100k protestors in a major city. .


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

This received huge coverage in the local news. Some are calling the CC closure “temporary” in quotes as if everyone knows it means permanent. The guy who proposed it says that conventions will not be returning FOR YEARS and the CC is available to house thousands indefinitely. Some note that desperate times require strong measures and other facilities may be needed.

Per the Times, “Others worry that, once hundreds of people are sheltered in the center, the lack of adequate supportive housing could strand them there long after the pandemic has passed.”

The good news is that the Olympics are 7 plus years out and that SD tried this and determined it was a very expensive way of handling the problem. You have to believe they also had the loss of convention business weighing heavily on their minds.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Los Angeles 2028 venue could be converted into homeless shelter for winter

LOL. The talk of the town becomes the talk of the Olympics. This site notes LA's proposal to convert an Olympic facility to a homeless shelter.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

1984 was 52 years after 1932, and 2028 will be 44 years after 1984. Cars in 1932 were way more old-timey looking by when 1984 rolled around than the way that cars from 1984 look to most people today, 36 years later. Technology and things like color photograph and video have squeezed together the decades in the late 20th and 21st centuries compared with the era of B&W TV sets or, even older, Model Ts. The world in 2028 likely will be more different from a cultural-political standpoint than a design/technology standpoint.


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## slipperydog (Jul 19, 2009)

An Olympic Games Opening Ceremony, you say?


----------



## en1044 (May 4, 2008)

slipperydog said:


> An Olympic Games Opening Ceremony, you say?


----------



## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Uber helping develop flying taxis in time for Los Angeles 2028

I do like the idea of fly-bys of the SoFi Stadium roof. It sounds like something out of Blade Runner. 

But the idea of many skyports around the LA metro which are “quick to build and could be constructed from the ground up or added to an existing structure” seems to disregard the reality of doing anything in LA.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Sportsfan said:


> My original post addressed your very sexist comment regarding the appointment of two women to prominent positions in the LA2028 organisation, so I was very on-topic. You, on the other hand, twisted and turned your way through a pathetic attempt at deflection, and I wasn't going to let you get away with it.
> You claim that I've resorted to name calling when you lower yourself to baseless slander like the following, and I quote: "Does it make you nervous that someone may find out what you really believe behind mouthing the jargon? Do you like the talk but hate it when someone actually acts on it?" - Perhaps look in a mirror when you spout garbage like that.
> We've noticed that kind of behaviour from you across many threads on this forum. Exhibiting smugness when you've been exposed as a sexist is really quite pathetic and I'm not the least bit surprised that you mistook my contempt for you as childishness. Be better in future.


Off topic once again. Just apologize and give it up. So far all you have done is picked out from a longer post one comment that two women were hired and then rage into an attack on someone you now admit you have been after for some time. 

And what's with the "we've noticed" you refer too? That sounds a bit creepy. 

And then you invoked "Donald Trump". That is name calling. By contrast I was describing the possible mental status of someone who sees a posting re various hires with no comments attached, and believes that the one regarding two women must be of sexist intent. Doesn't it seem to you that that could be reading a bit much into a comment and needs to take a deep breath now and rethink what he said? 



How about something re LA, the Olympics, sports, new deals, logos, stadiums, subways, funding, etc.?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Athletes at Los Angeles 2028 will be "encouraged" to stand up for beliefs

LA Olympics will encourage freedom of expression by athletes and encourages Paris to do the same. 

What could possibly go wrong?


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## slipperydog (Jul 19, 2009)

pesto said:


> Athletes at Los Angeles 2028 will be "encouraged" to stand up for beliefs
> 
> LA Olympics will encourage freedom of expression by athletes and encourages Paris to do the same.
> 
> What could possibly go wrong?


What if some athletes from certain countries beliefs are based in ancient Shari'a law?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

slipperydog said:


> What if some athletes from certain countries beliefs are based in ancient Shari'a law?


Yep. Racial, religious, animal rights, gender activists. Fundamentalists of all sorts. Probably some I can't even imagine.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> LA Olympics will encourage freedom of expression by athletes and encourages Paris to do the same.
> 
> What could possibly go wrong?



I like the way that Casey Wasserman, etc, and the 2028 Olympics are going the route of Roger Goodell and the NFL. Even more so since next year's Super Bowl will be held at SoFi Stadium, which will also host part of the '28 Olympics.

Stan Kroenke's fancy new stadium should help make up for dull James Stadium in Tampa. That probably caused the ratings on Sunday to be the lowest since 2007. 

So next year, a lot more spectators will tune in just to see the oculus, the ETFE ceiling panels and the nearby 6-acre lake.

I can hardly wait.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> I like the way that Casey Wasserman, etc, and the 2028 Olympics are going the route of Roger Goodell and the NFL. Even more so since next year's Super Bowl will be held at SoFi Stadium, which will also host part of the '28 Olympics.
> 
> Stan Kroenke's fancy new stadium should help make up for dull James Stadium in Tampa. That probably caused the ratings on Sunday to be the lowest since 2007.
> 
> ...


Actually the viewership numbers were very good; it was a small drop off compared to other major sports and other prime viewing over this last year. The NFL is expecting a strong increase in revenues from their new broadcast contracts.

The drop was probably associated with people not gathering in groups. But you are right that SoFi is also expected to draw worldwide attention next year.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

I have Pesto on ignore and every other post is someone fending him off. Pages and pages of forumers fending him off.


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

😁

he doesn‘t have a clue about sport and sport venues, but he improved a lot over last few years and learned a lot, subconsciously


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> I have Pesto on ignore and every other post is someone fending him off. Pages and pages of forumers fending him off.


Yeah, I know what you mean. Some days I have me on ignore too.


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

as long as you’re not ignored by your wife it‘s fine

I like reading it ... well sometimes at least 😆


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

RuFFy said:


> I have Pesto on ignore and every other post is someone fending him off. Pages and pages of forumers fending him off.


HAHAHA, I know this is a page of opinions but sometimes he just needs to keep his to himself. Think them through a bit more.


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## GunnerJacket (Jan 25, 2008)

*Mod Note: *Okay, campers. Put a sock in the comments to/about other posters and get back to the topic.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Super Bowl set to start of LA decade of sport with 2028 Olympics centrepiece

This plays SoFi as the star of the coming decade, with the Olympics as the crowning moment (Casey Wasserman has leadership rolls in both the Super Bowl and Olympics).

It’s mostly filler, but it highlights the expected multiple uses of SoFi and implicitly the political pressure to get the stadium, and surrounding venues and businesses legal for use and occupancy by next February.


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## ElvisBC (Feb 21, 2011)

GunnerJacket said:


> *Mod Note: *Okay, campers. Put a sock in the comments to/about other posters and get back to the topic.


sure, but come'on, kidding with pesto is at least half of fun here, without him it wouldn't be the same and he understands jokes ☺


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

Won’t there be some events around the Belmont Shores neighborhood of Long Beach? The pool in the area is being rebuilt.









Belmont Pool project wins key approval from Coastal Commission • Long Beach Post News


The Belmont Pool replacement project can move forward after winning approval from the California Coastal Commission Thursday, closing a seven-year process that started after the closure of the Belmont Plaza Olympic Pool in 2013.




lbpost.com


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> Won’t there be some events around the Belmont Shores neighborhood of Long Beach? The pool in the area is being rebuilt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL. Kind of amazing that anything ever gets built.

There were planned to be a great many events in LB, but if it's too much hassle fighting the haters, maybe some could be moved to Inglewood or other locations.


RuFFy said:


> Won’t there be some events around the Belmont Shores neighborhood of Long Beach? The pool in the area is being rebuilt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The usual story: the locals want welfare projects and less spending on sports or convention facilities, keeping the beach in decent condition, etc. But, as the mayor said in Inglewood: the difference is that public housing COSTS money and keeps costing money forever; while facility improvement and related development BRINGS IN money so that the city can actually improve housing, schools, health, etc.

This is a great opportunity for generating publicity and income for the city (of course, with the proviso that projects need to show they have a continuing use). That doesn't seem very controversial since the rebuilding of the beach/pool complex and related projects is about 100M, in a city that has lived on tourism and conventions for over a century.









Downtown Long Beach - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

This is a nice walking tour of the north 1/3 of the zone that will be the center of Olympic activity in 2028. The middle section will include the Convention Center area and the southern end will extend to USC and the Expo Park area. 

This video starts as Staples and goes north on Fig to the office/shopping complexes near the 7th St. Metro station (where the Expo Line along Fig and the Wilshire Line to Ktown, BH, WeHo, Century City, UCLA, etc., connect.

A bit further north are the architectural gems of Grand Ave.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Above I posted a walking tour of the downtown Olympics zone that ends at the 7th St. metro station. From there you can take the D Line (formerly Purple Line) as far west as Western Ave., in Koreatown, where it currently ends..

This video is a description of where it will go after that; namely the Mid-Wilshire museums, Beverly Hills and Westwood where the UCLA Olympic zone will be located.

This line should be getting very large usage during the Olympics (and every other day as well). .


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

ElvisBC said:


> without him it wouldn't be the same and he understands jokes ☺



Hey, you better watch it. I'm going to post videos of past Olympics and complain how they were too Cirque de'Soleil. But, hey, Danny Boyle sure did a good job in 2012. In fact, Boyle got an award from Britain's Queen for 2012. So I hope Casey Wasserman mimics London for LA's Olympics. But he needs to make 2028 way more political than Boyle did.

Everything is much more political in today's era, so a lot more politics need to be inserted into the Olympics.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

californiadreams said:


> Hey, you better watch it. I'm going to post videos of past Olympics and complain how they were too Cirque de'Soleil. But, hey, Danny Boyle sure did a good job in 2012. In fact, Boyle got an award from Britain's Queen for 2012. So I hope Casey Wasserman mimics London for LA's Olympics. But he needs to make 2028 way more political than Boyle did.
> 
> Everything is much more political in today's era, so a lot more politics need to be inserted into the Olympics.


You never know who’s reading these threads. Next thing you know someone at LA 2028 stumbles upon this thread and considers your argument.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

RuFFy said:


> Next thing you know someone at LA 2028 stumbles upon this thread and considers your argument.



The way things are going, sarcasm is increasingly being treated as sincere and serious.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

This can go in the Paris 2024 thread, but 2028 will be even more affected by a changing culture and politics.

Very mixed opinions about this.

Personally, I think if the IOC really wants to justify the huge budget and overkill of the Olympics, they should introduce face-offs between the world's best doctors, best engineers, best architects, best singers, best scientists, best zoologists, best race-car drivers, best authors, best accountants, etc.

This sounds like 2024 will have segments reminiscent of Dancing with the Stars.

Quite seriously, the foo-foo parts of an Olympics may receive some of the highest TV ratings, particularly among the coveted female demographic.










Inside Breaking’s Debut at the Olympics


We all associate the Olympic Games with sport, with physicality, with beauty and even artistry. The Summer Games scheduled to take place in Paris 2024, however,




www.dancemagazine.com







> Breaking is one of four new sports that are confirmed for the Paris Games, along with skateboarding, sport climbing and surfing. "In our fast-changing world, you cannot rest on yesterday's success," the IOC press office told _Dance Magazine_. "Constant improvement and evolution is needed. Accordingly, we have also undertaken the most comprehensive reform of the Olympic program in our recent history."
> 
> The IOC's "Olympic Agenda 2020" outlines 40 recommendations for updating the Olympics. One is to introduce more flexibility to allow host cities to propose new sports to their editions.
> The IOC also recognizes that "sport needs to adapt formats to go where the young people are, to continue to inspire the younger generation with the Olympic values of friendship, excellence and respect."
> ...


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

That so obviously belongs in the the Paris thread, I've replied there.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

LA 2028 signs up Comcast as second founding partner


NBC parent also extends partnership with Team USA for next four Olympic Games.




www.sportspromedia.com







> *Mass media company Comcast has been named as the second founding partner of the Los Angeles 2028 Olympic Games and has also extended its association with Team USA.*
> As it relates to LA 2028, the deal will see Comcast work with the local organising committee in the coming years ‘to *drive lasting social change* and build a more equitable and* inclusive *society’


Given that Casey Wasserman (if not others too) says he wants the Olympics to become *more* political, not less, here's a preview of the 2028 games:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> LA 2028 signs up Comcast as second founding partner
> 
> 
> NBC parent also extends partnership with Team USA for next four Olympic Games.
> ...


Not surprising given that Comcast owns NBC and NBC effectively runs the Olympics due to its management of revenue sources, analytics and PR. But, of course both the IOC and NBC dance to the tune that the analytics play.

It will be a very interesting process of seeing how the revenue/marketing world changes over the next decade. Predicting and properly responding to that means many billions.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> It will be a very interesting process of seeing how the revenue/marketing world changes over the next decade.



The trend right now is to place social, political messaging before anything else, even profitability. Look at what the NBA and NFL are willing to do.

People who think that formula is good in spite of how it may affect the bottom line will admire it. Or visa versa. But the political, for several years now, keeps growing louder and louder. If current trends continue, no way will the 2028 Olympics not reflect that.

Wasserman and the 2028 OOC may make aspects of the Danny-Boyle-ized 2012 games seem like small potatoes. Speaking of the UK, the royal crown is reportedly prepared to take a knee in response to an interview a few weeks ago of her grandson and granddaughter. She sort of wants to do a curtsy to them.

These trends show no signs of changing. 2028 is looking to be quite promising. Yippee.










Georgetown players, coach kneel during anthem on Day 2 of NCAA tournament


Georgetown’s entire men’s basketball team, along with their coach, joined together in taking a knee during the national anthem ahead of their NCAA tournament game against Colorado Saturday. A …




thehill.com






> Georgetown’s entire men’s basketball team, along with their coach, joined together in taking a knee during the national anthem ahead of their NCAA tournament game against Colorado Saturday. A photo posted on Twitter by Sports Illustrated reporter Pat Forde captured the moment the Hoyas and coach Patrick Ewing locked arms and knelt down before they took the court on the second full day of March Madness.
> 
> Taking a knee during the playing of “The Star-Spangled Banner” has become an increasingly popular form of activism among professional and college athletes, especially after former NFL star Colin Kaepernick began kneeling in 2016 to protest the police killings of unarmed Black people.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> The trend right now is to place social, political messaging before anything else, even profitability. Look at what the NBA and NFL are willing to do.
> 
> People who think that formula is good in spite of how it may affect the bottom line will admire it. Or visa versa. But the political, for several years now, keeps growing louder and louder. If current trends continue, no way will the 2028 Olympics not reflect that.
> 
> ...


I understand you can't help yourself about these things.

But, no. The demographics show that putting an emphasis on social issues in your PR serves the goal of attracting eyeballs and maximizing profits. If it didn't it would be dropped like a hot-potato. 

Examples: have you heard about save the dolphins or whales, save the ozone layer, save the spotted owl, climate change, peak oil, the Middle East, fairness of SAT tests, safety of cell phones, police corruption, safety of hospitals, terrorism, drug cartels, date rape, etc.? They are all still there but analytics show that people are not interested in them.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> I understand you can't help yourself about these things.
> 
> The demographics show that putting an emphasis on social issues in your PR serves the goal of attracting eyeballs and maximizing profits. If it didn't it would be dropped like a hot-potato.



It's more a case of THEY can't help themselves. I didn't ask for a greater politicization of everything, but people running things like various companies, ad agencies, the NFL, NBA to the LA 28 OOC insist otherwise.

Nike's more political messaging during the past 2 years was reported as helping sales among their base of customers, whereas the NFL doing the same thing has done just the opposite.

Casey Wasserman has been pushing for more political messaging in the Olympics. All because of what? Because that will help pad their budget?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> It's more a case of THEY can't help themselves. I didn't ask for a greater politicization of everything, but people running things like various companies, ad agencies, the NFL, NBA to the LA 28 OOC insist otherwise.
> 
> Nike's more political messaging during the past 2 years was reported as helping sales among their base of customers, whereas the NFL doing the same thing has done just the opposite.
> 
> Casey Wasserman has been pushing for more political messaging in the Olympics. All because of what? Because that will help pad their budget?


Yes, if that's what the numbers say. Or do you figure he is an insane opportunist pushing a personal agenda by tricking some of the top financial and operational people in the world? 

You can bemoan excessive commercialization; I do. But remember that it IS done by people spending their own money and looking for a return so as to continue their organizational missions.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> You can bemoan excessive commercialization; I do. But remember that it IS done by people spending their own money and looking for a return so as to continue their organizational missions.








Actually, I'm bemoaning excessive politicization. In turn, Casey Wasserman would disagree with Eric Garcetti's comments above. Although Garcetti wouldn't exactly work against what the head of the LA 2028 OOC prefers, and that's more - not less - politicization of athletes and the games.

This newscaster over 50 years expresses what's now louder than ever before. His description of the IOC mirrors yours and still holds true---look at the elitist extravagance that the IOC has pushed onto Tokyo 2020, all for a two-week-long sporting event. Also, even after changing trends over the past 10-20 years, people similar to Wasserman encourage more and more politicization:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Los Angeles Council votes to join safety Cooperative for 2028 Games

LA votes to join a coordinated security group for the 2028 Olympics in spite of claims that it could turn into a mass sweep of illegals, activists and the poor generally.

Of course, you kind of wonder why a city that is about 80 percent Democrat, poor, minority and socially progressive would be interested in attacking the very community that put them into power.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> that is about 80 percent Democrat, poor, minority and socially progressive would be interested in attacking the very community that put them into power.


Everything is now more political than ever before. Everything. Among various sports leagues, the NFL, MLB, NBA, etc, are way more political than in the past. Their employees, including players, are more political. Sponsors, advertisers too. Politics is now increasingly more influential than money alone. What's that phrase? Virtue signalling?

Today's city of LA is more political, so is Paris (Europe) and, of course, Beijing too. China is super political. The 2022 Olympics will have politics as its middle name.






The thread on SoFi Stadium has a post from Tered, and the videos he posted are a reminder that big money is at play. So that and politics are doing sort of a tango in today's times.

Meanwhile, 52 years separate the 2020/2021 Olympics from the 1964 games. 56 years separated the 1984 Olympics from the 1932 games. But 1964 is way less old timey than 1932 is. So Tokyo 2020 connects the modern to the modern the way that the 1984 Olympics and the 2028 games (if they're held) are both also more modern than old timey.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Again, You repeat the obvious and a few absurdities so that you can rush to your never-ending supply of historic and off-topic videos. 

And again I have to say that the IOC and LA have no agenda here other than to read the public mood and try to tailor their offerings to what they are interested in. Once it was world peace or love the planet (Paris is still stuck mouthing slogans re carbon and global warming, while nobody listens); now it's social justice for minorities. It changes and you shouldn't ascribe so much to it.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

pesto said:


> you can rush to your never-ending supply of historic and off-topic videos.



Thanks. Now that you mention it, here are a few more. The second one shows a bit of politics affecting the 1984 ceremony's director::


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## Sportsfan (Jul 26, 2009)

californiadreams said:


> Thanks. Now that you mention it, here are a few more. The second one shows a bit of politics affecting the 1984 ceremony's director::


Firstly, that reply gave me life. And I, for one, appreciate your occasional archival clips that create a reasonable sense of comparison between then and now. If we don't appreciate how we got here, then what's the point. Because if we don't learn from the past, we are destined to keep making the same mistakes.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Sportsfan said:


> we are destined to keep making the same mistakes.



I've said on occasion that I post here in the hopes that someone with the LAOOC or IOC over the next several years drops by and gets some feedback that they may not find elsewhere.

Comments and warnings about the Olympics always ending up with busted budgets, of course, are fairly common. However, that just about always falls on deaf ears. Look at Tokyo 2020.

In other ways, things are getting so bad nowadays - such as the politics - that the post in this thread from a few weeks ago about sarcasm now being treated seriously by various people, such as a Casey Wasserman, makes things even dicier. If I joked about the Olympics needing to become more, not less, political, a lot of people in positions of authority would go, hey, that's a good idea!

One of the reasons why I didn't care for a symbolic part of the 2012 Olympics was it being too political, in a goofy sort of way. Like their "huh?" tribute to the British healthcare system. Yet, a lot of the bigwigs in London society and TV viewers in general were supposedly impressed by what a British movie producer did to those games.

The person who was the lead designer of the 1984 games even said she thought the hokey-jokey approach to the Olympics in 2012 was refreshing..

Years later, Casey Wasserman is promoting the idea that athletes and the Olympics should become more political.

If 2028 at least ends up in the black - and everything else about it falls flat - that may be the most one can hope for. Similarly, if LA were hosting the 2020 games and Covid forced it to be cancelled, we hopefully wouldn't have thrown billions of dollars into the event the way people in Tokyo have. A shuttered LA Olympics still would be an ouch (a few temporary or new facilities, preparation, planning, security will cost a lot no matter what), but not the huge ouch of a cancelled 2020/2021 games.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

With American and worldwide politics becoming increasingly polarized and excessive, although things like gender politics, anti-US politics and anti-"white-supremacy" politics, etc, etc, are growing louder as each year goes by, the one good thing that can come out of that is if the 2028 games focus on cities and countries* throughout* the world, not just LA/Hollywood and America.

But that shouldn't be done for political reasons, but mainly because a host of the Olympics with the nature of LA/America (or "been there, done that"---1984, 1996, 2002) means that 2028 should highlight everyone, not just some LA-type theme or Yankee-fied US theme.

The 2008 games were too China-fied, the 2012 games were too London/UK-fied, the 2016 games were too Rio/green-climate-ized. If 2020 occurs, it probably will be too Tokyo-ized/anime-ized. Paris probably will be too France-Eiffel-Tower-ized. 

At least when it comes to cities like London, Tokyo and Paris, they're already so well known that playing up their reputation is unnecessary, even obnoxious.

Since Casey Wasserman and many other social influencers are going the pro-diversity route, if the LA games end up being just the opposite of too localized, too provincial, that will be one good thing coming out of today's politics.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

I don't think Casey Wasserman is happy about this:






But if Casey wants to encourage political messaging, maybe he can discourage Danny-Boyle-type foo-foo-faw-faw. At least make it less ridiculous. All the bad stereotypes of Hollywood were presented in 2012 (a spoof on James Bond, uh, ha-ha, huh? WTF?) or 2016 (a fashion model walking down a runway; huh? WTF?), and that's the last thing LA needs. If he does, he'll be a very good OOC manager in my book. Then maybe allow him to insert some BLM.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Sportsfan said:


> Firstly, that reply gave me life. And I, for one, appreciate your occasional archival clips that create a reasonable sense of comparison between then and now. If we don't appreciate how we got here, then what's the point. Because if we don't learn from the past, we are destined to keep making the same mistakes.


There's a wonderful general thread set up just for things like that. That way Paris can be kept for Paris, LA for LA, etc.

The problem is that one poster is fixated on showing other Olympics, particularly the London games. He repeats them ad nauseum an insults those associated with them without even an effort to tie them into LA. For the last 2 years he has added Casey Wassermann's name to his posts (but without any reference to his plans) so as to have a LA tie-in.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Oh, look who showed up. LOL. How did I guess.

Meanwhile, there is an LA connection, regrettably.

Hey, Casey, if you can keep "hokey Hollywood" characters like the following guy away from 2028, you'll do LA and the Olympics a big favor. Maybe as a tradeoff, you'll even be allowed to insert some BLM political messaging into the games.









BAFTA Home Page


An independent British charity that supports, develops & promotes the art forms of the moving image




www.bafta.org


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## en1044 (May 4, 2008)

Unfortunately for you, you tend to make embarrassing claims that get you banned and it's not something we want to be associated with.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

The 2028 OOC will need this more than they'll need an Intuit Dome. Although can a temporary Olympic-sized swimming pool be built into the main floor space of a basketball arena? My hunch is probably not. Unless a lot of the surrounding rows of seating are removed and the entire ground space is lifted by dozens of feet.in order to fit the width and length of an Olympic-sized pool.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Over the past 60-70 years, and other than for the 1984 games, I think only the 1992 Olympics didn't have an indoor swimming arena. But Barcelona easily had the most welcoming, non-confining setting for swimming and diving. The area for swimming-diving on the USC campus won't be as appealing as this, but this was just the opposite of claustrophobic:


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

It's interesting how LA has a reputation of swimming pools, yet lacks a large indoor aquatic facility. But it doesn't really require one. Not for something that can operate most days of the year in an outdoor climate and also doesn't generate much spectator support. This - attached to its Olympic games references - along with a parallel temporary pool in 2028 will be very AOK:






In the case of the 2024 games, they will have an indoor swimming arena.


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## en1044 (May 4, 2008)

If you can easily rationalize why Southern California doesn't have any major indoor swimming pools, then it's really not that interesting. It's just common sense.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Fencing in 2028 is scheduled for the LA Convention Center in downtown LA. In 1984, it took place at the theater in the Long Beach Convention Center. 

Not sure how venues are selected by sports federations. But if archery is planed for the outdoor lake area next to SoFi, and the Forum will also be used, then I wonder if the Youtube Theater would be a better location for fencing? But I think the 2028 OOC wants to group events closer together. But maybe too many are already penciled in for downtown LA? Not sure. 

However, something about the LA Convention Center doesn't seem as natural for spectator-type events. In 1984, the center was used to house the international media, which required only a lot of flat floor space for desks, chairs and typewriters.


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## TEBC (Dec 26, 2004)

californiadreams said:


> Over the past 60-70 years, and other than for the 1984 games, I think only the 1992 Olympics didn't have an indoor swimming arena. But Barcelona easily had the most welcoming, non-confining setting for swimming and diving. The area for swimming-diving on the USC campus won't be as appealing as this, but this was just the opposite of claustrophobic:


neither did Athens 2004


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

Hey, my reply to your post got knifed. But you're correct. Athens did have an outdoors swimming area too. Although the planners originally were talking about putting a roof over the pools. They're still in active use, however, and were built right next to the main stadium, which is also still in active use. 

Some of the seating area of the 2004 pool apparently is in disrepair, which isn't surprising since swim events generally don't attract a lot of paying spectators.

I had a post about the official medal ceremony music now released to the public and which will be used for the upcoming summer 2024 Olympics: 






Things like that are the details that affect the tone of a games. A games' OOC will either succeed or fumble in 3 major categories: (1) Budget, (2) Attendance and (3) Organization/planning. That includes facilities, logos, ceremonies, transportation and security.

This was the medal ceremony score for the last Olympics in LA:






This is the final time that music was played at the 1984 games: 






All the details do affect the vibe of a games.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

I particularly like his last sentence:


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

ICC still hopeful of cricket's inclusion as an additional sport in 2028 Los Angeles Olympics - Firstcricket News, Firstpost


Host City Los Angeles can also propose additional sports in 2023 to be included in the 2028 Games and the ICC is hoping that cricket is among sports to get the nod of the IOC.




www.firstpost.com





I wonder:
Is break-dancing one and done in Paris?
What does "a form of American football" mean? Flag football would allow for easier play by women.


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## tomek1187 (Nov 22, 2017)

californiadreams said:


> Hey, my reply to your post got knifed. But you're correct. Athens did have an outdoors swimming area too. Although the planners originally were talking about putting a roof over the pools. They're still in active use, however, and were built right next to the main stadium, which is also still in active use.
> 
> Some of the seating area of the 2004 pool apparently is in disrepair, which isn't surprising since swim events generally don't attract a lot of paying spectators.
> 
> ...


This Paris 2024 medal ceremony music is just magnificent!


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

tomek1187 said:


> This Paris 2024 medal ceremony music is just magnificent!



But it should be more celebratory, not next-world mystical. The score is supposed to be for athletes who've just won an Olympic medal, not for people who are entering the supernatural.

The 2024 logo and now the 2024 official music are early hints at how Tony Estanguet and the 2024 OOC may arrange the next summer Olympics.


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## en1044 (May 4, 2008)

Stop being dismissive of other peoples' ideas.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

This comes closer to how it should be done. Its tone could still be a bit lighter or more upbeat, but it caters to what will be a big moment in a person's life: Winning an Olympic medal: 








Money and budget ain't everything, 2028 OOC.


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## en1044 (May 4, 2008)

I would feel quite proud hearing the 2024 music played in my honor.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

This set the tone of medal ceremonies in the last games in LA. The official music of an Olympics plays the same role as that of a good or appropriate score of a TV show or movie. 






This is upbeat, catchy music, but it wasn't as fitting or moving for an Olympic medal ceremony as 2020's or 1984's was.







It's the details that count, 2028 OCC. Good decisions help offset a modest budget. Poor decisions may not be enough to overcome a big budget.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

The 2020 theme for Tokyo is more moving than the 1964 was. Although I don't know if the 1964 fanfare was followed by a longer composition: But the writer at least got it. His format is ceremonial. By contrast, the next summer games' orchestration isn't.

Hey, 2028 OCC, eyes wide open.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

I guess this was the overall theme music of the 1964 games. The 2020 medal orchestration is way better and fits an Olympics. This one is too regional and doesn't accommodate an international theme::







More recent composers of Olympics tunes - or the the guy who did the 1964 song - haven't gotten it quite the way this guy does.











I wonder what he thinks about the Olympic games, particularly the summer ones, over the past 20-plus years? Impressed? Approving? Or letdown? Disappointed?

Regardless, the 2028 OOC needs to understand how all the moving parts of an Olympics fit together. Or don't fit together.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

What's that saying, 2028 OOC? The devil is in the details.

Even a minor matter like the format of Olympic medals can affect a games. The clasp of the 1984 games and backside design look more appropriate than the clasp and reverse-side design of the 1996 medals did: .
.


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## californiadreams (Jun 23, 2015)

The devil is in the details, 2028 OOC.

The 2012 OOC apparently didn't commission a person to write the medal ceremony music for their games. Or what's listed as the games' official theme was used only at the opening/closing? Or was it changed at the last minute? It's from the movie score "Chariots of Fire." It also plays continuously during the awarding of medals. Not sure about that. But the tone of a games is affected.

The 2012 OOC also chose a medal format more closely resembling the one used by the 1996 OOC. It contains the same wide-arm clasp, but it looks better. It also has a totally different design for both the front and backsides. I believe the 1984 games used the format going back to the beginning of the modern Olympics. However, the front side of the 2012 medals looks good.

Because the 2012 OOC chose to design the cauldron the way they did, when I first saw its image projected on the stadium screens, I thought it was a fireplace. LOL 

It comes down to a matter of choices and judgment. All the money in the world - and the 2012 OOC had a huge budget - won't necessarily enhance that..

I notice at least a few of the stadium announcers at the 2012 games had sort of a "cheeky" way of speaking. Some will say they sound nicely enthusiastic. But because the pitch of their voice is kind of high or they speak in a somewhat rah-rah manner they don't sound as official? Things like that also affect the tone of an Olympic games.

The American girl at the medals ceremony for gymnastics looks, okay, kind of mean. LOL. Did she curl her lip for a moment because she didn't win gold? 

But the details do affect a games. The moving parts of an event can fit nicely together or end up being more of a jumble.


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## Soriehlam (May 30, 2015)

pesto said:


> OK me too. Here's to friendship forever.


As a fellow Brazilian, I feel Caesarq is the type of guy who calls soccer "football" and Americans "Unitedstatesians" ("estadunidenses"). And votes for a certain nine-fingered dude.
But you're right. This display of spite against SoFi tells us nothing about the stadium, and much about the guy.
But back to topic.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1482218200712376321

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1482439355184521216

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1482218170572177409
D Lime construction is getting along. 
Olympic Village connection to DTLA.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1483963112101453824
Long list for the Olympics games. 
Wont be done in time. IMO.


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## AustralianFan (May 1, 2021)

redspork02 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1482218200712376321
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1482439355184521216
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1482218170572177409





redspork02 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1483963112101453824


Hi redspork02, 

Can you add some comments around what you are posting in this thread please?

Flooding a thread with bulk, detailed reports, studies and data woth no commentary or contextual comments is not permitted, nor in the spirit of debate or discussion on that topic on Skyscrapercity.com

Please add your own opinions or comments with your posts especially any link or relevance to the 2028 LA Games.

Thankyou


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

AustralianFan said:


> Hi redspork02,
> 
> Can you add some comments around what you are posting in this thread please?
> 
> ...


Although uninvited, let me give some background.

MTA has proposed a number of projects that might need extra funding to be ready by the Olympics. Of these, completion of the Expo Line (K) to Inglewood and LAX; and the Purple (D) Line from DT to Westwood (UCLA) are the most important (the LAX people mover is under LAX management and should be easily done).

Given MTA's epic delays in the past we should be worried; but as of now these should be done on time. The others are good ideas and general improvements of efficiency but mostly relate to general service, not to the Olympics Funding is doubtful so the point here is to get the state or feds interested.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Sorry mom. Added context. YW. 
Ive been on this site since 2005. I know how it works.
and what pesto said. 👆


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

redspork02 said:


> Sorry mom. Added context. YW.
> Ive been on this site since 2005. I know how it works.
> and what pesto said. 👆


Thanks! As long as I'm on a roll.

DT LA will be the main Olympic Center and staying in that area will give you access to many events, a walk or shuttle to the Coliseum and easy subway connections (mostly on the D Line) to UCLA and Santa Monica events, the N. Hollywood press center and much tourism.

Getting to SoFi events will require a change of trains and be a bit longer (E Line and K Line, assuming nomenclature doesn’t change). Uber will be quicker.

For Long Beach events "you can take the A Train" (a Duke Ellington reference), with maybe a shuttle for some events. But you might want to stay in the area if you are interested in these events, since music and beach parties will probably last late into the night.


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## AustralianFan (May 1, 2021)

The Occulus at SoFi Stadium reminds me of how the circular inside rim of the 2008 Beijing National Stadium was creatively used to display a trail of videos and images from the Torch Relay as Li Ning “ran throught the air” with the torch in the Opening Ceremony.

At the 2028 OC, the Occulus can also expected to be creatively integrated into the proceedings in a spectacular way, including the Parade of Nations.

2008 Opening Ceremony - circular inside rim of the stadium roof









The Occulus at SoFi Stadium, venue of the 2028 LA Opening Ceremony


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Yes. The Coliseum can provide fireworks and SoFi can provide pixels. A number of prior shows have already shown its breadth and versatility.

NFL Media (next door to SoFi) is trumpeting their upcoming ventures into digital storytelling on a worldwide basis, so I doubt if the LA 2028 committee will be slacking on their end. I imagine that all of LA and the air and sea around it will become their palate. And that's for starters.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Adidas expands Los Angeles presence in boost for 2028 Olympic city


Adidas has expanded its operation for marketing and sales and design in Los Angeles in a potential economic boost to the city prior the 2028 Olympic a...




www.insidethegames.biz





Adidas adds more office and warehouse space in LA preparatory to the 2028 Olympics. I assume this will be at their existing offices in the Arts Dist. a mile or so east of the main Olympic centers along Fig. 

It's an interesting area to stay EXCEPT that to get to the Games directly you have to pass through Skid Row, which is dangerous 24/7/365. Or you can walk along, say, 1st or 2nd and down Bway or Hill. They are only dangerous, say, 6//7/365.


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## AustralianFan (May 1, 2021)

redspork02 said:


> Sorry mom. Added context. YW.
> Ive been on this site since 2005. I know how it works.
> and what pesto said. 👆


Just wondering if plans being made to connect the light rail station “Aviation/LAX” over to LAX airport itself?

Such a connection would assist LA28 spectators and visitors to link in to LA’s light rail and rail network more easily than now.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

AustralianFan said:


> Just wondering if plans being made to connect the light rail station “Aviation/LAX” over to LAX airport itself?
> 
> Such a connection would assist LA28 spectators and visitors to link in to LA’s light rail and rail network more easily than now.


Not literally since Metro won't go there. But you can transfer to the LAX People Mover, which will run an elevated line from the airport to that station (and to car rentals and parking).






LAWA Official Site | Connecting LAX


LAWA Official Site | Landside Access Modernization Program (LAMP)




www.lawa.org


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

pesto said:


> Not literally since Metro won't go there. But you can transfer to the LAX People Mover, which will run an elevated line from the airport to that station (and to car rentals and parking).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Btw, this is one project I feel comfortable about being done by 2028. There will be other airport modernizations and expansions that will be mostly done but some could still be in process.


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## AustralianFan (May 1, 2021)

pesto said:


> Btw, this is one project I feel comfortable about being done by 2028. There will be other airport modernizations and expansions that will be mostly done but some could still be in process.


That’s good that the LAX people mover will connect to the Aviation/LAX station. Great for Olympics visitors and those visiting before and after the Games.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

AustralianFan said:


> That’s good that the LAX people mover will connect to the Aviation/LAX station. Great for Olympics visitors and those visiting before and after the Games.


The New LAX/ Crenshaw Line (K LINE) currently 99.999999999% done, has three rail stations near LAX. 
1) *Aviation/96th*
2) *Aviation/Century*
3) Aviation/LAX which is being renamed *Aviation/Imperial. *

The People mover will connect at Aviation/96th street only. People Mover should be done within two years. 
The station Aviation/96th and K line upgrades should be done prior to 2028. Construction has started on both. 
We have discussed this before so, the tweets by Metro superfan #numble I posted above are just a percentage updates on the progress of the LINES. Sorry if they lacked context for new users/the reader. 

For example: 
Here:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1482218170572177409
Olympic related projects are on going.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Flag Football seeks spot in 2028 Los Angeles Olympics


The NFL is helping wave the flag for flag football to become part of the Olympics.




www.foxnews.com





NFL helps push men and women's flag football for the LA Olympics. 

This is a version of football that is common when you are teaching kids the basic skills without having to use padding and helmets. But when adults play it, it can get rough since the quarterbacks throw at NFL speed, the runners are moving at high speed and "accidental" bumping can occur..


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

LA 28 came out with a video for the sports of the 2028 Olympic Games


__
http://instagr.am/p/CZhHWOIu53W/

Meanwhile Modern Pentathlon, Boxing and Weightlifting... what are we chopped liver?? lol Modern Pentathlon not making the roster would be especially awkward as the Dignity Health Sports Park (I think that's what they call it now) in Carson was set aside for the sport (though I guess they can now use it for Rugby)










Weightlifting similarly was going to use the Microsoft Theater downtown which will now go dark with no other sports planned.










That said six years is a long time, plenty of time for these sports to be added in, but as of now they are not gonna be in LA.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

Wow. No weightlifting........

If no weightlifting, maybe Judo or Taekwondo can move into Microsoft Theater. More space in LACC.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

redspork02 said:


> Wow. No weightlifting........
> 
> If no weightlifting, maybe Judo or Taekwondo can move into Microsoft Theater. More space in LACC.


Damn; and I was going to sign up Barry Bonds, Jose Canseco and Roger Clemens for guest appearances.


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## piadolym (Oct 26, 2021)

My guess is that these sports will be back at program, but IOC needed to shook federations up.
In case they don't, Microsoft Theater could host the cultural program, giving it a bigger role at the Olympic experience.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

The formers in the gamesbids.com forums were reluctant to acknowledge LA could produce a profit and that the LA of 2028 would be significantly different than the LA of 1984. Joking about the one new rail line opening when it did (expo) or how the effects of the gentrifying downtown were nonexistent or inconsequential. Fast forward to 2022 and a few more rail lines are going to open, including a connection to LAX, and the DTLA renaissance remains in full swing. I continue to think a lot of people who haven't seen LA in the last 20 years are going to be pretty surprised at how much and how fast the city is urbanizing. Shame the gamesbids forum was overrun by people who claimed to know the Olympics and took that as a means to diminish the contributions of those who know LA.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> The formers in the gamesbids.com forums were reluctant to acknowledge LA could produce a profit and that the LA of 2028 would be significantly different than the LA of 1984. Joking about the one new rail line opening when it did (expo) or how the effects of the gentrifying downtown were nonexistent or inconsequential. Fast forward to 2022 and a few more rail lines are going to open, including a connection to LAX, and the DTLA renaissance remains in full swing. I continue to think a lot of people who haven't seen LA in the last 20 years are going to be pretty surprised at how much and how fast the city is urbanizing. Shame the gamesbids forum was overrun by people who claimed to know the Olympics and took that as a means to diminish the contributions of those who know LA.


Yes, unfortunate. Even worse, even if they are given incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, they will often continue to criticize. One of the blessing of anonymity is that you can be as cruel and petty as you want.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

Somewhere on Twitter there's word that the contractors for both the Regional Connector and the Crenshaw Line will turn over the project to Metro in May. 

On another note I was in downtown for the Rams Parade, specifically in Exposition Park. It's cleaning up but still has a ways to go. Was thinking how it would be nice to have the space shuttle endeavor displayed in the new Samuel Oschin Air & Space Center in time for the 2028 Opening Ceremony.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> Somewhere on Twitter there's word that the contractors for both the Regional Connector and the Crenshaw Line will turn over the project to Metro in May.
> 
> On another note I was in downtown for the Rams Parade, specifically in Exposition Park. It's cleaning up but still has a ways to go. Was thinking how it would be nice to have the space shuttle endeavor displayed in the new Samuel Oschin Air & Space Center in time for the 2028 Opening Ceremony.


Yes. The Lucas, the Endeavour and the role of LA generally in space (real and cinematic) is an obvious area for emphasis. The Hubble was repaired by Endeavour, Hubble himself worked at Mt. Wilson; JPL and Caltech did the technical work, much of it was built in SoCal.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

The insecure forum administrator over at gamesbids.com is doing the forumers dirty work by purposefully not creating a Los Angeles 2028 thread and at least one forumer is blasting their 2024 thread and keeping them lit with off topic posts. Thankfully, that isn’t happening here. 🙄

I’m really looking forward to all the new transit projects opening up in LA. The latest has the Crenshaw (K) Line open for revenue service this summer with the Regional Connector linking the Gold / Expo (E) Line with the Gold / Blue (A) Line following suit this Fall.

2024 is scheduled to see the Airport Connector and the first phase of the Purple (D) Line extension followed by additional openings in 2025 and 2027 when it finally reaches UCLA and the VA.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

LA will certainly have much more transit to the Olympic events; and transit is great for DT, Ktown, Hollywood, BH, WeHo, SaMo and Pasadena

But there is no doubt that you will want a car to really see SoCal. SD, Tijuana, Ensenada, the OC beaches, Malibu, Santa Barbara and the mountains and lakes are accessible quite easily by car and not at all by other means. Even Griffith Park, the Getty, the Observatory, the Huntington, Disneyland etc., are far more accessible by car. And likewise for places like Yosemite and Sequoia which can be seen nowhere else on earth.

Some posters here seem to be addicted to pubs and fan fests but that is only a fraction of those attending the Olympics.


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

RuFFy said:


> The insecure forum administrator over at gamesbids.com is doing the forumers dirty work by purposefully not creating a Los Angeles 2028 thread and at least one forumer is blasting their 2024 thread and keeping them lit with off topic posts. Thankfully, that isn’t happening here


Pathetic. Yes, that forum has a full Paris 2024 subforum but nothing equivalent for LA28 yet. I believe this is because Paris is in 2 years whilst LA is still a little while off. It's not because of some anti-LA sentiment that exists only in your head. You're making things up.

*What is true, however, is that you were banned permanently from gamesbids for repeated homophobic posts. 🤮*

The childish vendetta you've had since you were rightly banned is of course off-topic here, but if you insist on bringing it up then I'm more than happy to point out to others here - including the mods - why SSC would be far better off without you, just as gamesbids is.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Garcetti establishes Olympic Games Cabinet to facilitate coordination


LA will host the 2028 Olympic and Paralympic Games




spectrumnews1.com





You would like to think that this isn't actually news since the various parts of LA City government would naturally work together in a cost-effective way to improve an event of this size and visibility .

But that would be a horrible mistake. The only real issue here s is whether this additional level of bureaucratic grandstanding will help at all.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

pesto said:


> Yes, unfortunate. Even worse, even if they are given incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, they will often continue to criticize. One of the blessing of anonymity is that you can be as cruel and petty as you want.
> [/QUOTE


I understood there was the possibility of under grounding the Pico metro station across from staples center and the convention center. Do you think it likely that would happen before 2028 as the bottleneck on Washington would create a headache for moving spectators.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> I understood there was the possibility of under grounding the Pico metro station across from staples center and the convention center. Do you think it likely that would happen before 2028 as the bottleneck on Washington would create a headache for moving spectators.


That has been talked about for years but I doubt it. There are many bus lines and a huge amount of parking in the area and you can also use Metro Center, up at 7th St. if crowds are that bad at Crypto or Microsoft. 

The really large events will be at the Coliseum and SoFi in any event or can be moved to the Forum, Pauley, or LB if there are projections for too much traffic downtown.


----------



## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

The amount of modern sports arenas are mind blowing. With weightlifting possibly out, it leaves Microsoft Theater without a event.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

Minor news. The concession stands on Alamitos Beach are almost done while the concession stands at Junipero Beach are open. There are bike rentals at the stands, too. I don’t know if you guys are aware but these were improvements made under the 8 by 28 plan that Long Beach created in preparation for the 2028 Games.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> Minor news. The concession stands on Alamitos Beach are almost done while the concession stands at Junipero Beach are open. There are bike rentals at the stands, too. I don’t know if you guys are aware but these were improvements made under the 8 by 28 plan that Long Beach created in preparation for the 2028 Games.


Thanks! I had heard that LB had its own list of clean-ups and repairs to match Garcetti's, but it's good to see them getting done. Beaches in general are noteworthy for their rundown and messy facilities so it sounds like a 24/7 job to keep them in top condition..


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

redspork02 said:


> The amount of modern sports arenas are mind blowing. With weightlifting possibly out, it leaves Microsoft Theater without a event.


That's why most cities end up with white elephants. The demand was never there for the facility in the first place and never will be again.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

I’m not sure if this will have any role in the Long Beach Sports Park but last year a company was granted a 3 extension to begin construction on a new Convention Center hotel on Ocean Blvd and Pine Ave. For those not aware the Long Beach Convention Center and Sports Arena Complex will anchor the Long Beach Sports Park along with events on Alamitos Beach and the Marine Stadium. 









Long Beach Planning Commission approves 30-story hotel tower


In a meeting last week, the Long Beach Planning Commission signed off on a proposed high-rise hotel development at the intersection of Ocean Boulevard and Pine Avenue.




urbanize.city





Additionally, the Los Angeles Convention Center will be renovated and expanded and include another Convention Center hotel to accompany the existing 1000 room Marriott / Ritz Carlton that anchor LA Live, the heart of the Downtown Sports Park. I believe members of the IOC and other dignitaries may stay in these hotels during the Games.









City Planning Commission clears Convention Center/J.W. Marriott expansion


In a series of votes last week, the City Planning Commission has given the go-ahead to a more than $1 billion project which will simultaneously expand the Los Angeles Convention Center and adjoining J.W. Marriott hotel complex.




urbanize.city


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> I’m not sure if this will have any role in the Long Beach Sports Park but last year a company was granted a 3 extension to begin construction on a new Convention Center hotel on Ocean Blvd and Pine Ave. For those not aware the Long Beach Convention Center and Sports Arena Complex will anchor the Long Beach Sports Park along with events on Alamitos Beach and the Marine Stadium.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The downtown Olympic center has the potential to be fabulous. I imagine that every media, sports and tech company in LA would want some displays and events, either on the ground or on the many full-wall lighted signs along Fig. And, as was noted, Microsoft Theater may be completely available for use during the entire period. Could Microsoft themselves put something there?

And there are venues and open areas on Grand Ave, City Hall Park and Expo Park. Plenty of room to show-off your stuff.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

Here is a link to the


pesto said:


> The downtown Olympic center has the potential to be fabulous. I imagine that every media, sports and tech company in LA would want some displays and events, either on the ground or on the many full-wall lighted signs along Fig. And, as was noted, Microsoft Theater may be completely available for use during the entire period. Could Microsoft themselves put something there?
> 
> And there are venues and open areas on Grand Ave, City Hall Park and Expo Park. Plenty of room to show-off your stuff.


I get worlds fair visions when I think of Los Angeles 2028. I'm not exactly sure why but I can see LA stepping it up to show itself off. BTW, I noted without the backup someones accusations fell flat. Absolutely nobody believes the accusations thrown at me a few posts up.

Anyhow, here are some links that may be of interest. The first is to a Long Beach website about the concession stands and the second is an article about the restaurants selected to run the stands.





__





Beach Concession Improvements







www.longbeach.gov













Gaucho Grill to have three different concepts at $9M Alamitos Beach space







www.longbeachize.com


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Czech Republic launches Men's Baseball LA 2028 Olympic Games project


The U-15 National team also played four warm-up games in Barcelona, Spain.




www.wbsc.org





Get your red and blue "CR" baseball caps while you still can!!!! The Czech Republic starts work on building their baseball team for the 2028 LA Olympics.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

I’m not sure if I’m imagining it but it seems LA2028 has begun a social media push. They’re appearing in a lot more of my advertisements.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

RuFFy said:


> I’m not sure if I’m imagining it but it seems LA2028 has begun a social media push. They’re appearing in a lot more of my advertisements.



Remember that in 2 years time they have to present an artistic segment for the 2024 closing ceremony. Time is now. Time is money. Comes quickly.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

There was some hope that the increased cost of oil could help finance the new Belmont Swimming Pool that hopes to be part of the 2028 Olympic Program. 









A prolonged oil-price spike could help boost Belmont pool project • Long Beach Post News


The current fiscal year’s oil production was projected to generate over $98 million at a conservative assumed price of $55 per barrel, but this week Long Beach oil was selling for between $116 and $125 per barrel.




lbpost.com


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

I saw this a few days ago in the LB Post regarding the Belmont Veterans Memorial Pier. There had been conversations of rebuilding the Belmont Pier for some time now with the hopes of completing the project by the 2028 games. For those not aware Belmont Veterans Pier is part of the Long Beach Sports Park and part of the 8 by 28 program put in place by the City of Long Beach.









Belmont Shore could be getting a new rainbow-shaped pier • Long Beach Post News


The city is looking to replace the aging Belmont Veterans Memorial Pier, and a design that is reminiscent of the old Rainbow Pier in Downtown is currently in early design stages.




lbpost.com


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

LA2028 appears to remain on track to holding the 6.8 billion budget. I would assume that's because it’s not susceptible to the volatility of construction materials needed to build new venues.









LA 2028 highlight financial reserves and Games agreement in annual report


Los Angeles 2028 has said it is "well on track" to delivering the Olympic and Paralympic Games as the Organising Committee submitted its annual report...




www.insidethegames.biz


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

The NFL is courting the Olympics and expressing interest in Flag Football being included in the 2028 program. Not sure how that would work with a limit on athletes participating and equality, but I do know the NFL's marriage to LA has been long, EXPENSIVE, and just as dramatic as LA's relationship with the Olympics. Still, for both, LA has proven to be on another level and unlike any other city in the world, LA has made them both pay their own way. 









Flag football at the Olympics might be the key to the NFL's overseas business plan


The NFL says it has a plan to grow its international business to $1 billion annually, and it involves the Olympics.




www.cnbc.com


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

Ready, set, gold! has taken off in Los Angeles. LA is busy not only inspiring a next generation of Olympians, but also ensuring the 2028 games has a lot of locally grown gold.









Nonprofit bridges gap between Olympians and local students


Ready, Set, Gold! encourages gold metal mentality




spectrumnews1.com


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

RuFFy said:


> The NFL is courting the Olympics and expressing interest in Flag Football being included in the 2028 program. Not sure how that would work with a limit on athletes participating and equality, but I do know the NFL's marriage to LA has been long, EXPENSIVE, and just as dramatic as LA's relationship with the Olympics. Still, for both, LA has proven to be on another level and unlike any other city in the world, LA has made them both pay their own way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Now I like the NFL as much as the next red blooded american, but I have to say I don't think American football makes a lot of sense for the Olympics. It's not nearly popular enough worldwide to warrant a space on the roster and even as an exhibition sport that's kind of stretching it. Now when it comes to baseball, "the national pastime?" THAT I want to see in 2028 at Dodger Stadium for the Olympics! (And by the same token Brisbane can do cricket in 2032!)


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

aquamaroon said:


> Now I like the NFL as much as the next red blooded american, but I have to say I don't think American football makes a lot of sense for the Olympics. It's not nearly popular enough worldwide to warrant a space on the roster and even as an exhibition sport that's kind of stretching it. Now when it comes to baseball, "the national pastime?" THAT I want to see in 2028 at Dodger Stadium for the Olympics! (And by the same token Brisbane can do cricket in 2032!)


This is quite a lucky break and revenue opportunity for LA 2026. The NFL is expanding into Asia and Europe and would be a great source of income as sponsors for an event on the west coast. 

With the SoFi showpiece and the NFL HQ for international and entertainment development in LA you would expect they will be putting in place some money and events which highlight flag football directly and by indirection the NFL.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

pesto said:


> This is quite a lucky break and revenue opportunity for LA 2026. The NFL is expanding into Asia and Europe and would be a great source of income as sponsors for an event on the west coast.
> 
> With the SoFi showpiece and the NFL HQ for international and entertainment development in LA you would expect they will be putting in place some money and events which highlight flag football directly and by indirection the NFL.


Agreed. One shouldn’t jump to any assumptions as it conflicts with current goals of the IOC, but stars are aligned.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> Agreed. One shouldn’t jump to any assumptions as it conflicts with current goals of the IOC, but stars are aligned.


Of course there is risk. I am not sure that flag football has a real chance at popularity or will even help attract viewers to the NFL. But LA is known for people who will take a risk with their own money because they can see what works everywhere.

Alfred Hitchcock made a comment to that effect when he moved from the UK to Hollywood. Something like: in England you make movies for Englishmen and in Germany for Germans. But in Hollywood you makes movies for the world because the US is the world.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

Inglewood is looking to have the people mover connecting the Metro Crenshaw Line to SOFI Stadium and Intuit Dome by 2028. I, personally, would like to see it extended to the Hawthone/Lennox Metro Green Line Station to make it useable beyond the stadiums needs, but that’s just wishful.









Inglewood City Council approves $1.4B people mover


As construction hits a key milestone at the new people mover system linking the Crenshaw/LAX Line to the LAX central terminal area, another project seeking to link the 8.5-mile light rail line to nearby destinations is taking a step forward.




la.urbanize.city


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> Inglewood is looking to have the people mover connecting the Metro Crenshaw Line to SOFI Stadium and Intuit Dome by 2028. I, personally, would like to see it extended to the Hawthone/Lennox Metro Green Line Station to make it useable beyond the stadiums needs, but that’s just wishful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That gets messy since MTA gets involved and has to go through a 20 year process of prioritization of funds and projects because the local unions and politicos want it that way. 

LAX refused to hold up their Landside project to work with them due to their slowness. The current Crenshaw Line is about 5 years behind schedule and not done yet. And it has been talked about for 40 years since the 1980's with fits and starts.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

As to not be like those who only come here to sling mud and deny their obvious efforts to disrupt the productivity of threads related to LA 2028, I offer this. CA High Speed Rail and Metro announced funding to improve LA Union Station including run through tracks they hope to have open for the 2028 games. The tracks are being built to allow high speed rail trains to enter and go through the station as opposed to entering and backing out as they do today. We could potentially have a 1 seat ride for spectators between the Sepúlveda Basin Sports Park and the Platinum Triangle in Anaheim via Metrolink, which would also use the run through tracks. 

NEWS RELEASE: High-Speed Rail Board and LA Metro Agree on Funding to Improve Los Angeles Union Station - California High Speed Rail 

Also, a little day dreaming (and probably forecasting, too) from Orange County about increased Metrolink Service that utilizes those run through tracks to create service from Oceanside to Lancaster or Perris / San Jacinto to Ventura. Lots of possibilities and increased headways with run through tracks. A Metrolink / CAHSR version of Metros regional connector.









Dunsmore: Commuter Rail is Dead. Long Live Regional Rail.


With hybrid and remote work here to stay, Metrolink rail service needs to evolve and expand to stay relevant. Here are five ways to restructure Southern California’s regional rail service for the future.




voiceofoc.org


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

Could LA 2028 be any more flush with private investment. First we get Staples and Microsoft Theater at LA Live, followed by Sofi Stadium, Intuit Dome and YouTube Theater. Now, the Honda Center via their OCvibe project to redevelop the Honda Center parking lot including a 6,000 seat theater, hotel, and gardens leading to the ARTIC transit hub. Phase 1, 2024. Phase 2, 2028 Olympics. 









ocV!BE | Coming Soon


ocV!BE, the premier mixed-use community and live entertainment district, is coming to Anaheim in 2024.




www.ocvibe.com


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

Across the freeway and a short stroll from the ARTIC transit center Angel Stadium also has lots of development in the pipelines. This sports park is going to be rather impressive.









Angel Stadium land deal clears final hurdle


A settlement between the City of Anaheim and state officials has resolved a dispute which threatened to derail plans from Angels owner Arte Moreno to redevelop the parking lots surrounding Angel Stadium.




la.urbanize.city


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> Could LA 2028 be any more flush with private investment. First we get Staples and Microsoft Theater at LA Live, followed by Sofi Stadium, Intuit Dome and YouTube Theater. Now, the Honda Center via their OCvibe project to redevelop the Honda Center parking lot including a 6,000 seat theater, hotel, and gardens leading to the ARTIC transit hub. Phase 1, 2024. Phase 2, 2028 Olympics.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To say nothing of LAFC, the DS improvements, LB and Huntington projects. No doubt the RB, Coliseum and Dignity Health complex will continue to spruce up as well.


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## Mansa Musa (Jul 13, 2020)

Gonna be 6 years of NIMBYs crying gentrification despite the median home selling for nearly 2 million in the area of interest. Lets hope LA overcomes but I think we may see the smallest improvements of an Olympic host city in decades.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Mansa Musa said:


> Gonna be 6 years of NIMBYs crying gentrification despite the median home selling for nearly 2 million in the area of interest. Lets hope LA overcomes but I think we may see the smallest improvements of an Olympic host city in decades.


Not sure I follow, but you are right that there has been such an explosion in stadiums, museums, high rise and other facilities over the last decade that it is hard to top it. SoFi, Yahoo, Intuit, LAFC, Coliseum renovation, DS renovations, Lucas Museum, Broad Museum, many high rise and transit projects.

NIMBY's won't be a problem since the facilities are already there; there are practically no new builds on account of the Olympics. There will be complaints the money could have been better spent in other way, but even this is rather misplaced since the funds provided are private and the city is very limited in its exposure.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

My goodness the gamesbids thread is all dudes fighting with a lady. Stopping by that thread to see anything productive is useless!

Anyhow, some crazy add on to yesterdays post about the run through tracks at Union Station. The Metrolink Orange County Line’s Irvine Station sits just outside the Great Park where Major League Cricket intends to build the first internationally accredited cricket venue in the United States. The hope is to be included AND be the centerpiece of the event if allowed to participate in the 2028 Games. Looks, surprise, privately financed. 









WORLD CLASS CRICKET STADIUM DEVELOPMENT TAKES SIGNIFICANT STEP FORWARD IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA - Major League Cricket


Major League Cricket (MLC) announced today the approval of an exclusive negotiating agreement (ENA) with the City of Irvine to move forward with lease negotiations and design approvals to build a world class cricket venue on a 15-acre parcel at Great Park. The development would see a significant...




www.majorleaguecricket.com


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> My goodness the gamesbids thread is all dudes fighting with a lady. Stopping by that thread to see anything productive is useless!
> 
> Anyhow, some crazy add on to yesterdays post about the run through tracks at Union Station. The Metrolink Orange County Line’s Irvine Station sits just outside the Great Park where Major League Cricket intends to build the first internationally accredited cricket venue in the United States. The hope is to be included AND be the centerpiece of the event if allowed to participate in the 2028 Games. Looks, surprise, privately financed.
> 
> ...


The Great Park is certainly a good spot. The OC has a significant Indian community so it's an asset beyond the Olympics.

The investor news has been talking about the explosive growth in value of Indian cricket clubs, so I would guess that coming to LA is just the first part of their offensive for international recognition.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

I feel as the 2028 Games are going to turn out to be a Southern California sampling and it’s many neighborhoods that have their own, unique identities. I wonder if there is a possibility of the Great Park becoming a sports park itself being as the location is large, likely easy to control and made with large events in mind. 

I have also wondered, though I know it’s more far fetched, how or if the Inland Empire will have any role in the Games. Having lost rowing to Long Beach I’ve always thought the growing area around Ontario could potentially also be a sports park including Toyota Arena and some of the fields in Rancho Cucamonga like the Epicenter.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> I feel as the 2028 Games are going to turn out to be a Southern California sampling and it’s many neighborhoods that have their own, unique identities. I wonder if there is a possibility of the Great Park becoming a sports park itself being as the location is large, likely easy to control and made with large events in mind.
> 
> I have also wondered, though I know it’s more far fetched, how or if the Inland Empire will have any role in the Games. Having lost rowing to Long Beach I’ve always thought the growing area around Ontario could potentially also be a sports park including Toyota Arena and some of the fields in Rancho Cucamonga like the Epicenter.


Irvine has the wealth and density of the OC and milder weather. SGV and IE may be too far out and with no cities that are large and have international reputations. All things equal, compact (DTLA, LB, Westside) is better for visitors and for the IOC's goals.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

As Plans Gain Steam For A Major Ground In Orange County, Cricket Eyes Los Angeles Olympic Bid


Cricket’s grandiose vision of planting a flag in the coveted U.S. market moved a step closer with the announcement on Friday of plans to be build an internationally accredited cricket venue in the Los Angeles metropolitan area.




www.forbes.com





A bit more about cricket at the LA Olympics and entering the US market via a world class stadium, practice and training facilities in the LA metro. It will be used if cricket makes it into the 2026 Olympics and for world championships and major events.

Metro LA has a good sized Indian community but few Caribbeans, who are the other large cricket constituency in the US.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

Perhaps not relevant to the 2028 Olympics now.. but at once point the LA River was proposed as site of the Olympic Village. 









L.A. City Council signs off on $30-million Sixth Street Viaduct park


A plan to build L.A. River-adjacent park space on land beneath the Sixth Street Viaduct has moved one step closer to reality.




la.urbanize.city


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> Perhaps not relevant to the 2028 Olympics now.. but at once point the LA River was proposed as site of the Olympic Village.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OK, I would call this loosely relevant to the Olympics since so many events are DT and presumably people will stay or visit as far east as the AD. 

The problem is that the "Drug District", aka Skid Row is in between for those heading to Fig and the Olympic events. And that is a grim and dangerous route.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

pesto said:


> OK, I would call this loosely relevant to the Olympics since so many events are DT and presumably people will stay or visit as far east as the AD.
> 
> The problem is that the "Drug District", aka Skid Row is in between for those heading to Fig and the Olympic events. And that is a grim and dangerous route.


This was actually a topic in the downtown thread. Not necessarily the way you relayed it but more in the sense that aside form the obvious connection from Little Tokyo and the AD, most think coming to the AD from virtually anywhere else on foot is disconnected or unpleasant.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> This was actually a topic in the downtown thread. Not necessarily the way you relayed it but more in the sense that aside form the obvious connection from Little Tokyo and the AD, most think coming to the AD from virtually anywhere else on foot is disconnected or unpleasant.


That is certainly true. Hard to see how this becomes a livable part of DT unless some reasonable path along 3rd or north of there is made passable day and night. 

South of Skid Row (Flower, Garment Districts, etc.) is no great shakes either. But there are real businesses and people working there and trying to raise families.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

LA to host the Summit of the Americas next month. Precursor.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

Pentathlon might include obstacle racing in 2028


Under pressure to remove horse riding, modern pentathlon's governing body, known by its French acronym UIPM, will test obstacle racing as a replacement in time for the 2028 Los Angeles Olympics.



www.espn.com


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

Random topic. I’m exploring VR for my home office and I found myself thinking that as the technology continues to build upon itself will esports find a better fit in the Olympics? There are some pretty cool looking games that physically engage players, could reunite spectators from around the globe and VR could play a role in the LA28 logos interactive “A”. I have seen a lot of pretty cool stuff that I could easily see VR being both more developed and more integrated into the 2028 program compared to 2024.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> Pentathlon might include obstacle racing in 2028
> 
> 
> Under pressure to remove horse riding, modern pentathlon's governing body, known by its French acronym UIPM, will test obstacle racing as a replacement in time for the 2028 Los Angeles Olympics.
> ...


This is just too easy: get rid of the whole thing. This is about as modern as burning witches.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> Random topic. I’m exploring VR for my home office and I found myself thinking that as the technology continues to build upon itself will esports find a better fit in the Olympics? There are some pretty cool looking games that physically engage players, could reunite spectators from around the globe and VR could play a role in the LA28 logos interactive “A”. I have seen a lot of pretty cool stuff that I could easily see VR being both more developed and more integrated into the 2028 program compared to 2024.


Not a sport. Categorizes with puzzles, sewing, card tricks, crosswords, etc., as "pass times".


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

She hits the key point: in a place like LA where there are many urban centers and parking is readily available, transit will need a lot of work to win back riders. Filth, lack of security, cities of druggies, etc., mean that anyone who can afford a car will buy one in preference to risking his life in a variety of ways.. 

I would also suggest that Metro drop several of the projects that really have no connection to the Olympics. Otherwise, the opponents will have one more argument to oppose the whole thing.

The good news is that if you stay in downtown, Hollywood, WeHo or Ktown you will have short rides on transit that takes you to several of the main centers. The biggest problems are for those who look for cheaper lodging in, say, the SFV or SGV and have longer drives or transit rides.


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## Mansa Musa (Jul 13, 2020)

Uber drivers are gonna riot lol. Biggest pay day of their lives.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Mansa Musa said:


> Uber drivers are gonna riot lol. Biggest pay day of their lives.


Correct! 

Again, stay in DT or along the Purple (D) Line in Ktown, WeHo, Beverly Hills, Westwood areas and you will have good access to DT events and the westside. Of course, if there are 1 or 2 events you are focusing on, stay near them.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

pesto said:


> Not a sport. Categorizes with puzzles, sewing, card tricks, crosswords, etc., as "pass times".


I think a lot of the VR games are blurring that line and I believe that line will continue to blur even further. I’ve been impressed with how immersive the experience can be and what already exists hints at a virtual stadium with virtual spectators. I think the foundation for this kind of event is already there and it’s a literal pipeline to todays youth. More than music/breaking, more than extreme sports, more than esports because VR is a stones throw away from being all 3, in one. I think this is going to be a surprise feature of 2028.

Anyhow, it looks like some pretty serious drama is unfolding in Anaheim that Includes the FBI, the mayor, fraud and a stalled sale of the land around the stadium to the Angels owner Arte Moreno.









OC Judge Halts Angel Stadium Sale Amidst FBI Corruption Probe of Anaheim Mayor


The ruling comes as explosive allegations of public corruption were made public Monday, stemming from a federal probe into Anaheim Mayor Harry Sidhu.




voiceofoc.org


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

IDK but it looks like Cricket is launching a serious effort to be included in the 2028 program. 



https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/major-league-cricket-mlc-usa-investment-satya-nadella-microsoft/


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> IDK but it looks like Cricket is launching a serious effort to be included in the 2028 program.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/major-league-cricket-mlc-usa-investment-satya-nadella-microsoft/


Not just the Olympics; they want a full-time league here.


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## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

Cricket can be accommodated quite easily with a temporary facility, a minor league baseball field (if there's room to extend the outfield, or even another sports training facility like American football or soccer (if the complex has the layout to mark a cricket field over couple rectangular soccer field etc).


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Walbanger said:


> Cricket can be accommodated quite easily with a temporary facility, a minor league baseball field (if there's room to extend the outfield, or even another sports training facility like American football or soccer (if the complex has the layout to mark a cricket field over couple rectangular soccer field etc).


The concerns over cricket are related to how few countries play it and how likely it is young people in other countries will be attracted. There are also concerns about .how many LA facilities would be needed, given the many other demands for venues. The Olympics doesn't want facilities that consist of an open field with some stands dragged in.

Anything already built lessens the potential for being either ad hoc or a white elephant. That is why world cricket is trying to show a continuing use for the Irvine facility and perhaps others. I think it's uphill but do-able if they can show increased worldwide interest.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

More drama is unfolding down in Anaheim and spilling over into Long Beach. 









Anaheim voids $320 million deal to sell Angel Stadium in wake of corruption probe


The City Council had been discussing the future of its pending sale of the stadium and surrounding property amid news of federal investigations.




www.ocregister.com













Anaheim's corruption scandal is also shaking Long Beach's political world • Long Beach Post News


A Democratic Party power player accused of trying to bribe Irvine City Council members has been part of many Long Beach campaigns.




lbpost.com





But the REAL news to me this morning and something that I always though would be cool for LA is the groundbreaking of the Samuel Oschin Air and Space Center which will display the space shuttle endeavor in the lift off position at Exposition Park adjacent the Memorial Coliseum.



https://www.space.com/california-science-center-endeavour-groundbreaking


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## en1044 (May 4, 2008)

Delete


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> Because of these sports popularity or growth potential I can see break dancing on the chopping block. It was/is a good idea but the attention grab can be handed to other extreme sports.


Agree. It comes down to whether it works on a selected demographic, not on whether it is a "sport", "performance" or whatever. Estanguet was talking seriously about esports in Paris and the guessing is that the popularity is so high that the Olympics can't keep them out for long.. Maybe Jeopardy next?

My cousin informs me that "pickleball" (played most often by young children or seniors who can't play tennis anymore) is now spending big money making a push for Olympic inclusion. If there is evidence that it will attract an interesting demographic it could displace something.


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## aquamaroon (Dec 7, 2015)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552729209939771394
thought this was interesting


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552733727951691776
And how about that, even in 1984 the torch relay passed through Inglewood near what would become SoFi Stadium, and now 44 years later the torch will be going the opposite way to the Opening Ceremony


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

aquamaroon said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1552729209939771394
> thought this was interesting
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting. I guess it was handed to Rafer Johnson who lit the flame LA. Btw, he has to be featured at LA 2028. Talk about a Hollywood story; it's hard to believe it's true.

He was born in a small town in Texas; moved to the Central Valley where they were the only black family in town and was elected class President in middle school and high school (and later at UCLA). Broke the world record in the decathlon the 4th time he competed in it and never lost once after that. 

He trained with his good friend and only rival C.K. Yang at UCLA. He won by running a personal best and hanging close to the much better runner Yang. 

AND THEN, he became an actor and appeared in a dozen movies. You can't make up stuff like that.


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## CaliforniaJones (Apr 9, 2009)

I'm thinking the final torch bearers should be Magic and Bird.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

CaliforniaJones said:


> I'm thinking the final torch bearers should be Magic and Bird.


The Dream Team is a good choice; since it changed the world perception of basketball and what professionals could do, and changed the Olympics to an ATHLETIC SHOW rather than a gentleman's club or political propaganda fest. 

But there are a lot of other good choices. I expect they are already working on something interestng.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)

KOBE, RIP. would have been the choice. No doubt. 

Now........IDK.... Magic, MJ or Phelps? Simon Billes, Shannon Miller? or even Mary Lou Retton?


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

With the Olympics downtown and at SoFi (and FIFA 2026 at SoFi) I would think the NBA would get all over the Dream Team and other basketball related stories (Kobe, the increase in non-US players, women's hoops, etc.)

Intuit and the Forum are owned by Ballmer, who would love to attract attention. Crypto is owned by AEG, but maybe the NBA can work out some deal with them that doesn't violate Olympic rules.. Otherwise, move across the street to the unfinished projects, lol.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Los Angeles residents outraged by constant bridge closures as police struggle to contain viral antics


The newly opened Sixth Street Bridge in Los Angeles has frustrated residents amid dangerous antics by visitors in the weeks since the structure opened.




www.foxnews.com













Los Angeles Enjoys Its New Bridge a Little Too Much


The long-awaited Sixth Street Viaduct has proved to be irresistible to pedestrians and neighborhood residents — but also graffiti artists and exhibitionist drivers.




www.nytimes.com





Forget the Dream Team. How about the Nightmare Bridge? 

But let's stay positive. Could there be some new sports developing here that would be good for including in the LA Olympics? Cars, guns, climbing, pedestrians, bicycles, graphic arts? The connection to the LA River could make for an obstacle course marathon.


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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

For the Olympic Opening Ceremony it’s my opinion that LA has no shortage of talent. I hope the ceremony is tasteful. John Williams speaks to Gustav Dudamel on his sound/stage series. Hollywood Bowl - Sound/Stage: John Williams | Facebook | By Hollywood Bowl | “One of the things about it is that you see not so much man’s work, but God’s work, in a way, you know? A butterfly, a leaf, a sky.” John Williams talks...


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

The 2028 L.A. Olympics Are Already Creating a Housing Disaster

The NR continues its 100 year policy of goofy articles aimed at a semi-literate audience.

It turns out that the 2028 Olympics is aggravating the LA housing crisis already. Landlords have swept into decaying slums in Inglewood and repaired them, put in new amenities and raised the rents. (Btw, this also happens in my sleepy ‘hood in NorCal and we don’t have anything more than an occasional new restaurant opening.)

This occurs even though the Olympics are actually 10 miles from Inglewood in DT LA, and Inglewood will host only the opening and closing and some miscellaneous things (archery), as will SaMo, Westwood, the SFV, Anaheim, LB, etc.

And the article fails to note the thousands of new housing units and hotel rooms LASED brings which eases the housing problem in the whole booming Westside.

In short, the real villains are SoFi, LASED, Intuit, the Forum, the NFL, the NBA, the esport industry, various musicians, new media and Amazon (boom in warehouse space near LAX) and the people who take advantage of their services.


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## Mansa Musa (Jul 13, 2020)

LA needs to ban air bnb's asap and build out their hotel industry.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Mansa Musa said:


> LA needs to ban air bnb's asap and build out their hotel industry.


Building a hotel in Inglewood for an event that attracts people there for 2 days and then never again is not a brilliant investment move. Much better for people to temporarily rent their homes and use the profits for a week in Hawaii.


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## redspork02 (May 7, 2005)




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## RuFFy (Aug 29, 2008)

I was down at the Orange County Great Park to try out the new Wild Rivers Waterpark and it was my first time at the park. The park has a lot of developable space and could easily be converted into a sports village. It doesn't hurt that the Irvine Metrolink Station is across the street. I know that's a long shot given the size of the games now, but if they wanted to, they could.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

RuFFy said:


> I was down at the Orange County Great Park to try out the new Wild Rivers Waterpark and it was my first time at the park. The park has a lot of developable space and could easily be converted into a sports village. It doesn't hurt that the Irvine Metrolink Station is across the street. I know that's a long shot given the size of the games now, but if they wanted to, they could.


Seems odd to go there when LA is so close (with attractions like Hollywood, BH, SaMo, urban centers, beaches, nightlife). National level or single sport events seem like a better fit..


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

World Rowing confirms LA 2028 racing on shortest course in Olympic history

World rowing agrees to hold events on a 1500m course in Long Beach rather than a longer one at Lake Perris about 70 miles east of LA in the middle of nowhere. This means that, except for pool swimming and diving, all water sports plus handball and BMX will be concentrated near the LB beaches and downtown LB entertainment venues (hip hop, blues rock, etc.)..

This was actually a no-brainer since LB and product sponsors are likely to make a non-stop sun, rock band, alcohol, drugs and bikinis orgy of the area.


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## Mansa Musa (Jul 13, 2020)

pesto said:


> Building a hotel in Inglewood for an event that attracts people there for 2 days and then never again is not a brilliant investment move. Much better for people to temporarily rent their homes and use the profits for a week in Hawaii.


Olympics last 2-3 weeks and brings people in close to a month. The event is literally once in a life time for a country, and for some cities they may never have one again. LA already has a massive housing shortage, this event will mean many corporations will swoop up houses and charge exuberant prices for the month where the city is to expect anywhere from 5-10 million visitors. 

Also air bnb's in LA are already uncompetitive, with this event the cheapest air bnb will be $3000 a day, which is what is already happening in places near Coachella.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Mansa Musa said:


> Olympics last 2-3 weeks and brings people in close to a month. The event is literally once in a life time for a country, and for some cities they may never have one again. LA already has a massive housing shortage, this event will mean many corporations will swoop up houses and charge exuberant prices for the month where the city is to expect anywhere from 5-10 million visitors.
> 
> Also air bnb's in LA are already uncompetitive, with this event the cheapest air bnb will be $3000 a day, which is what is already happening in places near Coachella.


Coachella has about zero housing; metro LA has over 20M people.

I agree that some housing will be expensive for two weeks, but at the Olympics few stay more than a week (I went to SF for a week and rented my house during the last LA Olympics). I'm not sure how this affects the LA housing market except for that week.

Rental companies have stimulated significant new building aimed at investors who are buying primarily for rental (effectively competing with hotels). These are typically units that wouldn't even have existed otherwise. These are not typically owned by "corporations" but by the usual small investors that own rental properties in the US.

Not sure what "corporations swoop up houses" is supposed to mean. People either want to rent their houses or they don't. Hotels will raise their prices and so will the owners who rent. Then prices go back down since there are fewer rentals the following years.


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## Mansa Musa (Jul 13, 2020)

pesto said:


> Coachella has about zero housing; metro LA has over 20M people.
> 
> I agree that some housing will be expensive for two weeks, but at the Olympics few stay more than a week (I went to SF for a week and rented my house during the last LA Olympics). I'm not sure how this affects the LA housing market except for that week.
> 
> ...


California has a 8 million housing unit shortage and growing, the vast majority of that is in southern california and the bay area. Corporations currently own nearly 20% of single family homes in the U.S and that has increased tremendously in 50 years. 

Banning air bnb's and focusing on improving the housing shortage while meeting the demand for short term rentals through hotels would be better while helping limit price gouging.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Obstacle racing gets modern pentathlon approval


National federations back controversial plans to replace show jumping with obstacle course racing in the modern pentathlon.




www.bbc.com





Modern pentathlon drops show jumping and adds an "American Ninja Warrior" style obstacle course in a bid to get into the LA Olympics. Recent issues with brutality toward animals and the apparent randomness of the mix (like some aristocrat listed what he does at his country estate) have caused many to argue for it being totally scrapped.

Paris is keeping it for 2024 but I would guess that 2028 is sill in serious doubt, since appeal among younger audiences is low.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

For Los Angeles 2028, rowing wants to land on the beach - Francs Jeux


Rowing is changing its face. It retains its sculls and the nobility of its past. But the discipline no longer wants to live out its Olympic destiny in the straight lines of a six-lane basin. Its new playground: the sea. And, with it, the sand of the beach. At the initiative of its president, Jean




www.francsjeux.com





World rowing proposes a shorter, faster "sprint" version of rowing for LA. As usual with the 2028 Games, the idea is to attract newer and younger fans as the IOC resets its target audience and removes sports with less continuing appeal..

However, the main "6-lane" versions will still be around


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

ICC proposes six-team tournament in LA Olympics 2028


The international cricketer governing body has suggested returning to the Games after 128 years of absence




www.geosuper.tv





Cricket proposes a 6-team tournament of Twenty20 for LA 2028. It seems they have gotten the hint that small numbers of athletes will help get into the Games.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Los Angeles elect first black Mayor in vital stage for 2028 Olympic preparations

LA elects its first woman (and second black) mayor, at the same time ending the streak of Hispanic mayors. She has committed to a number of policies, but the bad (or is it good?) news is that LA mayors rarely do anything they promised during the election campaign.

She supports the Olympics and claims she will eliminate homelessness before they start. There is no real possibility of this since any homeless project generates another 1000 vagabonds a day to come to take advantage of the great weather, tolerance of drugs and free clothing, food and medical aid.

In any event, Inglewood, Pasadena, Long Beach and Santa Monica are outside her jurisdiction and Westwood hasn’t been much of a problem since the Feds cleared the area around the VA Hospital and various Federal office buildings.. That leaves the area along Fig downtown where they will push the camps far enough east into the Arts Dist. so that not many people see them.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Will LA's New Mayor Karen Bass Reset the City's Labor and Housing Markets?

The Nation explains that LA has the choice of giving raises to state and university employees, funding welfare and housing giveaways and breaking the power of big corporations and realtors (by banning Airbnb); or it can spend billions hosting high profile sports events like the Olympics and World Cup which make the rich richer and drive local workers deeper into poverty and misery. “Doha on the Pacific” is the catchphrase.

A bit hard to understand since the Olympics are privately funded and all the facilities are already there; and the going rate for illegal workers in my area is now $20/hr, far more than the average salary in virtually every country 

But I do have to admit that I like "Doha on the Paciific".


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Leading Los Angeles 2028 official appointed chief of staff by city's new Mayor


Chris Thompson, senior vice-president of Government relations for the 2028 Olympic and Paralympic Games Los Angeles, has been appointed by the city's...




www.insidethegames.biz





LA Olympics 2028 gets a boost as their head of political relations is appointed Chief of Staff for mayor-elect Karen Bass. 

In an understatement, the article notes that his appointment is likely to be opposed by anti-Olympic forces who predict "militarization" of the police (use of heavy weapons, armored vehicles, etc.) and mass evictions and deportations of people of color as part of a landgrab by corporate interests.

The anti-Olympics people may have a point since Bass has said that on her first day in office she will declare a state of emergency due to homelessness and will completely eradicate it before the Olympics. Sounds a bit authoritarian for a grandmotherly type with glasses.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Bass inaugurated as Los Angeles Mayor but is not prioritising 2028 Olympic Games


Karen Bass has been sworn in as the first female Mayor of Los Angeles as she prepares to help the city stage the 2028 Olympic Games for the third time...




www.insidethegames.biz





An issue that needs clarification. The new Mayor promises to eliminate homelessness for the Olympics, but talks about East SFV, Pico Union and ELA, and their problem is not homelessness but overcrowding. And that can't be changed because there are about 30M people in Mexico and Central Am. who WISH they could live in a crowded house in the the Valley or ELA rather than where they live now

Interesting to see how the city, LA Committee and the IOC can position this over the next 5 plus years.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Garcetti signed series of green laws that will impact Los Angeles 2028


Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti signed a series of new green laws before stepping down that will help the 2028 Olympic and Paralympic Games achieve it...




www.insidethegames.biz





This is always a tough issue. You try to make people re-use plastic but you don't worry about the billions of miles that athletes, trainers, officials, security, family, press and fans spend on airplanes, cars, buses, limousines. etc..


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Breakaway threat grows as USA Boxing says keeping sport in Olympics top priority


International Boxing Association President Umar Kremlev has been accused by his biggest critics of putting the interest of himself above those of the...




www.insidethegames.biz





US boxing talks about forming a new federation so as to stay in the Olympics for 2028. 

This is significant for LA since local boy Oscar de la Hoya ("the Golden Boy") won Olympic Gold and world titles in various classes. And he wasn't bad looking either. 

He now has a statue outside Crypto Arena, near where boxing would likely be held, joining Gretzky and various Laker greats. Boxing would be helpful in motivating all of LA (and especially the Latino community) into enthusiasm for the Games..



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Oscar_De_La_Hoya





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_De_La_Hoya


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## Mansa Musa (Jul 13, 2020)

Boxing is too corrupt to be in the olympics. I'll die on that hill.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Mansa Musa said:


> Boxing is too corrupt to be in the olympics. I'll die on that hill.


The current organization certainly seems to be. Perhaps competent organizations can be certified in at least 20 or 30 countries and progress can be made in future Olympics.

Or you could just get rid of the "violent" sports (boxing, wrestling, events with weapons, etc.) as inconsistent with modern sensitivities.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://la28.org/en/newsroom/California_Governor_Signs_LA28_Sponsored_Bill_Into_Law1.html



California gives tuition breaks to Olympic athletes The point is that they can avoid out-of-state tuition, which would otherwise dissuade them from training in SoCal..


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

https://la28.org/en/newsroom/LA28_Delta_Emblem_Launch.html



LA has been called the intersection of celebrity, entertainment and business, and I guess that's where this fits: Delta and the LA Comm. are co-creating an emblem, etc., etc.

This ties-in nicely with having athletes train locally and being available for ad campaigns (see, my prior post). Of course, if they don't focus on training they may not get the medal that means so much for the rest of their on-screen careers..


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Los Angeles 2028 gondola facing challenges as opposition hopes Bass stops it


Plans for a gondola ride to transport fans at the Los Angeles 2028 Olympic Games face an uncertain future following a change in the city's Mayor and l...




www.insidethegames.biz





This site believes that the proposed Dodger Stadium gondola may be cancelled by newly elected Mayor Bass. That will be somewhat significant if baseball/softball are voted in since the gondola links DS to the entire Metro system.. 

They also mention that the plan to light up the Hollywood sign has already been cancelled. I guess that converting LA to Disneyland isn't on Her Honor's agenda.


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