# MISC | Railway Electrification In The Middle Of The Track



## Wallaroo (Aug 3, 2007)

Not talking about 3rd rails here, but a new concept I heard about where the train pick up electricity from a rubber insulated line in the middle of the track. It should be a lot safer than a normal 3rd rail, and the pantograph in the bottom of the train spreads out the rubber insulation as it moves forward. Hope you get the idea.

Has anyone of you heard about this new way of railway electrification?


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## hify_ameet (Jan 14, 2005)

Wallaroo said:


> Not talking about 3rd rails here, but a new concept I heard about where the train pick up electricity from a *robber isolated* line in the middle of the track. It should be a lot safer than a normal 3rd rail, and the pantograph in the bottom of the train spreads out the *robber isolation* as it moves forward. Hope you get the idea.
> 
> Has anyone of you heard about this new way of railway electrification?


*robber isolated*??????

Do u mean *Rubber Insulated*??


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## Wallaroo (Aug 3, 2007)

hify_ameet said:


> *robber isolated*??????
> 
> Do u mean *Rubber Insulated*??


Maybe, you get the idea. A kinda electricity cable or 3rd rail with rubber around it, and the pantograph goes down in it and spread it out. It closes itself automatically again after the pantograph has moved on.

I would like to hear more about this and see some pictures please.


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## geego (Mar 3, 2007)

I think you're talking about the Alstom APS system.


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## X38 (Jan 23, 2008)

Doesn't that exist in Bordeaux, France?


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## Augusto (Mar 3, 2005)

X38 said:


> Doesn't that exist in Bordeaux, France?


Yes, and suprisingly it works not too bad, even if some of the original sections have been replaced by overhead cables. It could help Alstom to sell its tram to cities for which overhead supply is an issue, like Singapore.


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## X38 (Jan 23, 2008)

Also in Antwerp some people like complaining about the overheads.


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## trainrover (May 6, 2006)

Augusto said:


> it works not too bad


Can it still work during heavy downpours when the street's drenched in rain? is there any zapping?





X38 said:


> in Antwerp some people like complaining about the overheads


I don't blame them.


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## X38 (Jan 23, 2008)

If I may be honest, I don't have a problem with overheads. Exept for trolley bus overheads, those are really awful.


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## Wallaroo (Aug 3, 2007)

X38 said:


> Also in Antwerp some people like complaining about the overheads.


In Antwerp the overheads blend into the street picture very well - you almost dont notice them.


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## Wallaroo (Aug 3, 2007)

geego said:


> I think you're talking about the Alstom APS system.


Does anyone have close up pictures of the special APS system?

Is the APS system located in the middle of the tracks or besides them? How does it work with switches? Can it be used on intercity railway lines as well?

I find overhead wires to be ugly as hell no matter where they are, so if this new system could be implemented on all newbuilt railway lines it would be great! :cheers:


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## Coccodrillo (Sep 30, 2005)

1) in the middle of the track

2) the third "rail" of the APS system is interrupted to cross the rail

3) no, it would be expensive, diffucult to build and use and, mainly, completely useless. With heavy mainline traffic it is better to use high voltages (today's standard is 25 kV AC 50 or 60 Hz), and highest voltage used on a main railway electrified with third rail is 1500 V DC (western ramp of the Fréjus, or Lyon-Turin, now converted to overhead wires, still 1500 V DC).


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## greg_christine (Jan 25, 2004)

http://www.transport.alstom.com/home/elibrary/technical/environnement/_files/file_31288_29589.pdf

APS
The street levelpower supply

>The principle

APS is a system to power trams without overhead catenaries, allowing the tram to operate «wire-free» over journeys of any distance and hence to blend into the urban environment.

APS is an Alstom exclusivity. The CommunautéUrbainede Bordeaux (Bordeaux Metropolitan Area) is the first city in the world to have opted for this completely new technology on 14 km of its 44 km long tram network. It has been operating since the end of 2003. In 2006, the French cities of Angers, Reims and Orléans have also chosen an APS solution.

>How does it work?

Power is supplied to the tram through a third rail embedded in the tracks. This third rail is made up of 8 metre-long conducting segments, which can be powered, and which are separated by 3 metre insulating joints. Power is supplied to the conducting segments by underground boxes every 22 metres. The electricity transmitted through this third rail is picked up by two friction contactors located in the mid-section of the tram. The delivery of power to the conducting segments is triggered by coded radio dialogue between the tram and the ground, and only occurs once the conducting segment has beencovered by the tram, ensuring total safety for pedestrians.

>The advantages

- Preservation of the urban environment and historical heritage

- Performance levels equal to those of a conventional tram in terms of comfort and speed

- Total safety for pedestrians and road users

- Compatibility with all types of road surface

- Easy extension of the system if the line is prolonged


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## greg_christine (Jan 25, 2004)

The streetcar system that existed in Washington, DC prior to about 1961 collected power from a third rail located in a conduit under the street. The tracks and slot for the conduit are still visible in some parts of the city:


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## X38 (Jan 23, 2008)

^^That looks SO sad...


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## metsfan (Apr 14, 2008)

X38 said:


> ^^That looks SO sad...


Streetcars & trollies used to dominate the majority of us cities till the early 50's when GM bought most of them up & dismantled them, replacing them with GM busses.

- Andy


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## greg_christine (Jan 25, 2004)

^^ GM's National City Lines never owned the streetcar system in Washington, DC. Streetcar systems across the United States were abandoned regardless of whether National City Lines owned them. An interesting case is Los Angeles, where there were two streetcar systems, the Pacific Electric and the Los Angeles Railway. The Pacific Electric was bought by National City Lines and ended streetcar service in 1961. The Los Angeles Railway was bought by the local transit authority and ended streetcar service in 1963. There was a court case over the operation of National City Lines but the only thing that GM was convicted of was not allowing National City Lines to buy buses from other bus manufacturers.


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## sotavento (May 12, 2005)

metsfan said:


> Streetcars & trollies used to dominate the majority of us cities till the early 50's when GM bought most of them up & dismantled them, replacing them with GM busses.
> 
> - Andy


^^ That is an "urban mith" ... what brought streetcar networks down was the "newfound" purchasing power of americans ... bus companies never managed to even attain the passenger numbers of streetcar companies ... most people bought cars (and noth that many bough GM's in the 60's anyway(50% ?)). :lol:


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