# Who should host the 2023 Rugby World Cup?



## JimB (Apr 7, 2005)

likasz said:


> Argentina, or Italy.
> 
> But I think that rugby union will be dead after OG 2016.
> 
> ...


Rugby 7's will never take over from the 15 man game. It's been around for over 120 years and it's still nothing more than an amusing, occasional alternative to proper rugby union.

This isn't like Test cricket and T20 cricket. T20 caught the public imagination because the the five day game is just too much for most people. The action is too slow for all but the connoisseur. Even one day games are too much for many people. T20 is perfect at about two hours. 

You don't get the same issues with 15 man rugby. It lasts for 80 minutes and it is packed full of action. Shortening the game will lessen the drama - not increase it.

Rugby 7's games only last 15 minutes. They therefore only work as part of a tournament. They can't stand alone. You won't get people flocking from all over the country to watch, for instance, England play New Zealand for 15 minutes of rugby 7's at Twickenham. It wouldn't be worth the hassle.

Rugby 7's is also a bit samey. No proper scrums or lineouts. No classic forward play. Just chucking the ball from side to side and then running for the try line once the opposition are too knackered to tackle. Sure, teams score lots of tries. But, like basketball, when there are so many scoring efforts, they lose their impact and ability to thrill. It's too easy to score a try in rugby 7's.

It's an amusing diversion, certainly, and will work well at the Olympics.

But it lacks the substance of the main course that is proper rugby union.


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## JimB (Apr 7, 2005)

flierfy said:


> And due to the elitist nature of the game they quite likely never will.


In what way is the game elitist?

If the likes of Romania, Spain, Russia and Georgia can all have rugby teams with aspirations to qualify for the World Cup, I see no good reason why Germany can't too.


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## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

JimB said:


> In what way is the game elitist?
> 
> If the likes of Romania, Spain, Russia and Georgia can all have rugby teams with aspirations to qualify for the World Cup, I see no good reason why Germany can't too.


Well said, and who said anyone has to buy into that old elitist crap?
Its a bloody good game which has far too much merit to be know merely as a Private School / Upper class game. That been said Rugby League is great as well. Golf, Squash, Rowing etc can also be looked at as elitist but the reality is they are wholesome recreational pursuits for anyone.

As for rugby in Germany, would it be right to consider the American military influence with fostering American Football in Germany?
Does American football hold the "Colision Sport" niche in Germany that Rugby has in the UK, Ireland, Italy and France?


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## Archbishop (Aug 18, 2009)

USA! Haha.


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## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

Archbishop said:


> USA! Haha.


Wouldn't mind seeing that. Venues aren't as clear cut as it seems though because of the larger Rugby dimensions and typical high fenced frontrows of American Football stadiums which would mess up the sightlines even if you could squeeze a rugby field in.

I can't think of one NFL stadium that would fit an uncompromised Rugby field (68m / 100m + 2x 11m deep ingoal areas). The fact that Old Trafford will host games in the 2015 RWC says that the IRB is willing to be flexible. Field width is also up to compromise, under the IRB rules a field can by under the proper 68m / 70m if it has been agreed to by both teams before hand. Australia has taken issue with Scotland and Argentina in the past for preparing a 65m wide field without notifying to the Australians in an attempt to limit the effect of the Australian outside backs.

So when considering the Old Traffort precedent, given full notice and agreement, I can't see why the IRB wouldn't let RWC matches played on a pitch (65m / 100m + 2x 8m ingoal areas). That should make a few more venues available. Legion Field and Rentschler Field are the only stadiums I can think of off the top of my head where a proper Rugby Union field can fit.

I'd imagine the use of 8 college football or MLB stadiums (if they can fit) of the 40 000 to 50 000 range. Plus 2 or 3 60 000+ College or NFL stadiums. As for where, I'd say keep it in the North East, California and Colorado where there is some what of a rugby community. Can't imagine the South being interested but I'd love to be proven wrong. I have no idea about the midwest.

Alternatively a Canadian RWC could use the CFL stadiums.


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## CharlieP (Sep 12, 2002)

Walbanger said:


> As for where, I'd say keep it in the North East, California and Colorado where there is some what of a rugby community. Can't imagine the South being interested but I'd love to be proven wrong.


San Francisco has hosted plenty of Tests in the past. San Diego and Las Vegas have hosted the IRB Sevens. Houston hosted a USA v South Africa Test in 2001 that was very well attended.


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## Archbishop (Aug 18, 2009)

Walbanger said:


> Wouldn't mind seeing that. Venues aren't as clear cut as it seems though because of the larger Rugby dimensions and typical high fenced frontrows of American Football stadiums which would mess up the sightlines even if you could squeeze a rugby field in.
> 
> I can't think of one NFL stadium that would fit an uncompromised Rugby field (68m / 100m + 2x 11m deep ingoal areas). The fact that Old Trafford will host games in the 2015 RWC says that the IRB is willing to be flexible. Field width is also up to compromise, under the IRB rules a field can by under the proper 68m / 70m if it has been agreed to by both teams before hand. Australia has taken issue with Scotland and Argentina in the past for preparing a 65m wide field without notifying to the Australians in an attempt to limit the effect of the Australian outside backs.
> 
> ...


I'd think that Chicago would be the best place in the Midwest. Besides that Denver and SLC and Philadelphia and cities like those would be the best.


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## crazyalex (May 21, 2010)

Spain and Germany host RWC lol 

Thank for laugh


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## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

CharlieP said:


> San Francisco has hosted plenty of Tests in the past. San Diego and Las Vegas have hosted the IRB Sevens. *Houston hosted a USA v South Africa Test in 2001 that was very well attended*.


Yeah, pretty cool. Do you know where it was played?


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## CharlieP (Sep 12, 2002)

Walbanger said:


> Yeah, pretty cool. Do you know where it was played?


Robertson Stadium, 1 December 2001.


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## flierfy (Mar 4, 2008)

JimB said:


> In what way is the game elitist?


The world's best teams are well kept away from those down the ranks and play virtually only themself. Finishing third in your World Cup group is enough to re-qualify for the next World Cup finals. Not to mention the closed shops of the Tri- and Six-Nationes.

Compare that to football where even the ruling World Champion has to enter the qualifying stage with games against the likes of San Marino.


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## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

flierfy said:


> *The world's best teams are well kept away from those down the ranks and play virtually only themself*. Finishing third in your World Cup group is enough to re-qualify for the next World Cup finals. Not to mention the closed shops of the Tri- and Six-Nationes.
> 
> Compare that to football where even the ruling World Champion has to enter the qualifying stage with games against the likes of San Marino.


What good are results such as Australia 142 Namibia 0?
It's not elitist, it's just the reality of keeping a competitive schedule.

The Tri Nations is a made for television tournament by Murdoch. Inclusion of other countries has more to do with the interests of New Ltd then that of SANZAR. If it was totally up to the Unions, they would want to see a presence from the Pacific and Argentina. Argentina is now joining in 2012.

The 6 nations has spent years in getting Italy up to level, Romania has fallen behind since its more competitve days when Ceauşescu was around. So after Italy, where to they go?

...and what to do with Japan, Canada, the US and even Russia.


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## Archbishop (Aug 18, 2009)

Archbishop said:


> I'd think that Chicago would be the best place in the Midwest. Besides that Denver and SLC and Philadelphia and cities like those would be the best.


I was thinking about this and something like

New York: Red Bull Arena
Chicago: Soldier Field or Toyota Park
Boston: Gillette Stadium
Denver: Invesco Field
San Diego: Qualcomm/New Chargers Stadium
San Francisco Bay Area: Stanford Stadium or new 49ers Stadium
Salt Lake City: Rice-Eccles Stadium
Las Vegas: Sam Boyd Stadium
Houston: Reliant Stadium
Columbus: Crew Stadium
Los Angeles: Home Depot Center
Seattle: Qwest Field

Would be a good group. The final would be best in San Francisco IMO.


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## LiamO (Jul 29, 2010)

There are numerous options.

IRB also like to think what it will do for the game in general. So make sure we take note of that when considering. 
*
South Africa*
We could go to South Africa were it would be financially viable, and it has some great stadiums that could be utilized. However I don't think it would do much for the game over here. Rugby is pretty big as it is. Lots of $$$ could be made. 

- Nelson Mandella Stadium
- Cape Town Stadium
- Soccer City
- Ellis Park
- Moses Mhadiba Stadium
- Vodacom Park
- Loftus Versfeld
- Mbombela Stadium
- Rustenburg

Pretty much the same venues for the 2010 FIFA WC. 
*
Australia*
There is Australia where it could do wonders for the game again. If Australia pull there neck in Rugby and start winning games, taking games to places like Adelaide, Western Sydney and the Gold Coast would do absolute wonders for Rugby, and a RWC would open up those areas. A revamped Adelaide Oval, a Rectangular ANZ Stadium (I like most of Western Sydney am hopeful this occurs). I think if Australia do not win the rights to the FIFA WC in 2022, the Government will assist the ARU in funding for it. If 2022 is secured for the Aussies they will save their bid for the RWC until 2027. I think it would have to be combined with NZ though. But only a few of NZ stadiums will and should be used as it is not financially viable. By then NZ's stadiums would have had to still be upgraded.

Stadiums which could be used for an Aussie & NZ Bid.

- SFS (Upgraded hopefully, it will be very old by 2023)
- ANZ Stadium (It should be rectanguarlised by then surely)
- Suncorp Stadium
- MCG (Needs to be bigger than MRS, possibly Eithiad, but I hear it's a shit stadium for Rugby especially the surface)
- Adelaide Oval
- Subiaco Oval (Perth's stadium is shit though, hopefully they build a new one by then)
- Newcastle Stadium/ Townsville/ Gold Coast (2 of those 3)
- Canberra Stadium

NZ with 4 venues
- New Dunedin Stadium
- Auckland Stadium (As shit as it is to host a RWC Final)
- Wellington Stadium
- Christchurch Stadium

It needs to be financially viable so NZ cannot have many venues and understandably. 

*Italy*
I still think Italy should have won rights for 2019, and NZ should have never got anywhere near hosting this thing. With Japan hosting 2011 and England 2015. 

Italy have some fantastic stadia and they should be valued. Not to mention it is very close to other European Rugby countries who would happily come over for a match or two and it would be great. It would also do great for Rugby in their country. If it was held earlier it could have been a great success. But I think they should be a contender and definetely deserve it.

*Argentina*
Would do a great job for Rugby in their country. They responded well to the Argentina U/20 JWC with some great attendance figures. They probably need to make a few improvements on Stadiums, if they were ever a chance to win rights to FIFA WC, FIFA would want to see a event like this to show that they have the muscle to cater for it. IRB will see what a positive impact it could have on Rugby in Argentina and in South America for that matter. 

*Canada and US Bid*
Not viable for 2023. Hopefully 2027 they produce a bid. Joint or just Canada it would make for a fantastic RWC. Would do great for Rugby in Canada, in the US, I'm still not sold on that. The 1994 FIFA WC, didn't do much for Soccer.


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## 1772 (Aug 18, 2009)

How would the US do? 
Imagine the world cup be played at NFL stadias.


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## Archbishop (Aug 18, 2009)

LiamO said:


> in the US, I'm still not sold on that. The 1994 FIFA WC, didn't do much for Soccer.


Besides create a domestic league that's still running today. Yep, besides that nothing.


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

you could argue the same elitist crap in football. the same 8-10 teams progress to the later stages of the football world cup. 

and probably about 30-35 teams have a realistic shot of qualifing for the football wc, you never see india or togo or luxembourg etc at the FCW do you.

i mentioned germang, spain etc as they are near the big 6 european nations, which bring a lot of fans, the flights and other travel options would not be overly expensive so i reckon a lot of fans would come. they have good infrastructure and the game would be spread around to different places.


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## CharlieP (Sep 12, 2002)

In 6 Rugby World Cups there have been:

4 different winners (with no champion team ever retaining the Cup)
5 different finalists
8 different semi-finalists
12 different quarter-finalists

Hardly the repetitive closed shop people make it out to be.


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## Bobby3 (Jun 26, 2007)

In regards to a US bid: Boston, New York, Washington, Charlotte, Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, Denver, Seattle, San Francisco, and San Diego currently support top level teams here.

I think that should be taken into account, given that those cities (and Berkeley) are the backbone of the small rugby union community here.


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## crazyalex (May 21, 2010)

[del]


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## 67868 (Jul 31, 2006)

LiamO said:


> If 2022 is secured for the Aussies they will save their bid for the RWC until 2027. I think it would have to be combined with NZ though.


What makes you say that?
I would have thought a country backing itself to be the sole host of a FIFA World Cup would have no problems hosting the Rugby World Cup on its own.


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## LiamO (Jul 29, 2010)

IHaveNoLegs said:


> What makes you say that?
> I would have thought a country backing itself to be the sole host of a FIFA World Cup would have no problems hosting the Rugby World Cup on its own.


We could easily host it solely. But I think NZ will want a bit of it, as I can't see NZ ever hosting a sporting event like this ever again. Hence why NZ might want a piece of it. Maybe the IRB wouldn't allow that to happen though. They are hesitant of it happening with Japan 2019 and having Honkers have some games.


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## Andre_idol (Aug 6, 2008)

SharksBoy said:


> After 2010 FIFA World cup success so SA can host 2023 World cup with reuse of our stadium


This.


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## crazydude (Aug 4, 2009)

I think that SA could easily do it, but the IRB may give it to Argentina to grow the game. Hopefully it doesn't go back to Europe in 2023 though.

An SA bid would likely have the 10 2010 WC stadiums, plus a few other smaller ones. The stadiums are listed at their current capacities, but Moses Mabhida and Cape Town Stadium can be easily expanded as they were for the FIFA World Cup.

High likely:

Joburg
Soccer City 94 700 (final, and likely opening game)
Ellis Park 61 000 (possible semi final)

Durban
Moses Mabhida Stadium 54 000 (possible semi final)

Cape Town
Cape Town Stadium 55 000 (possible opening game and semi)

Port Elizabeth
Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium 44 000 (possible quarter)

Pretoria (maybe Twshane by then)
Loftus Versfeld 50 000 (possible quater)


Likely:

Rustenburg (technically Phokeng)
Royal Bafokeng Stadium 42 000

Bloemfontein
Free State Stadium 40 000

Nelspruit
Mbombela Stadium 40 000

Possible:

Joburg
Orlando Stadium 40 000

Cape Town
Newlands 52 000 (if it still exists by then)

Durban
Kings Park 55 000

Polokwane
Peter Mokaba Stadium 42 000

Rustenburg
Olympia Park 30 000

East London
Buffalo City Stadium 16 000

George
Outeniqua Park 10 000

Stellenbosh
Danie Craven Stadium 16 000

Kimberly
Hoffe Park Stadium 18 000

I added some of the smaller venues, as rugby world cups are normally more spread out than soccer world cups. Also, the attendances normally vary more, and the fields take way more damage, thus fewer matches per stadium.


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## lwa (Aug 2, 2010)

2023 will very much depend on wether Japan is looking to be a comercial success at the time the decision is made - thats the reason England are getting 2015 (well, one of the reasons) since they are a banker after the disaster that is 2011. (im sure 2011 will be a great tournament in a great country, but many of the venues are too small. Only 2 over 30k FFS!)

If Japan is shaping up to be a financial mess like NZ, then I can't see 2023 being anywhere other than South Africa (although a joint bid from any/all of Scotland/Wales/Ireland might be considered - I reckon Scotland and Ireland could lay on a good tournament, but not sure there would be the public support to make the scottish half a roaring success. would love to be proved wrong)

If however Japan is going to be a success story, then I suspect the IRB will be keen to take the tournament to other 'non-traditional' nations. That being the case, take your pick from Argentina or Italy. Truth be told, I would be delighted with either, although not sure I could afford Argentina just 4 years after Japan. (I know, that last bit is just selfish  )


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## Mo Rush (Nov 13, 2004)

South Africa or USA.


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## 67868 (Jul 31, 2006)

lwa said:


> 2023 will very much depend on wether Japan is looking to be a comercial success at the time the decision is made - thats the reason England are getting 2015 (well, one of the reasons) since they are a banker after the disaster that is 2011. (im sure 2011 will be a great tournament in a great country, but many of the venues are too small. Only 2 over 30k FFS!)


7 not 2


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## crazydude (Aug 4, 2009)

IHaveNoLegs said:


> 7 not 2


Eden Park, Lancaster Park, Westpac Stadium and Rotorua International Stadium, will be over 30 000. Waikato Stadium, North Harbour, and Forsyth Bar Stadium/Carisbrook (that's quite a mess up there), will all likely be under 30 000 due to press seating, hospitalty areas, and covered seats due to poor sightlines.


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## lwa (Aug 2, 2010)

IHaveNoLegs said:


> 7 not 2


OK, some of the grounds are slightly bigger than I first thought - so let me rephrase that: only 2 ground over 40k (and one only just at 45k)

Compare that to France, which used:

Stade de France (80k)
Millenium Stadium ( 73.5K)
Murrayfield (67k)
Stade de Veledrome (59k)
Parc Des Princes (47.8K)
Stade Felix Bollaert (41.k)
Stade de Gerland (41k)

All bigger than the 3rd biggest venue in New Zealand (5 of them bigger than the 2nd biggest in New Zealand, and 3 bigger than the biggest in NZ)

Add to that that the smallest venue used in France was 34k, compared to 9 grounds that are smaller in NZ (indeed, only 4 venues in NZ are bigger than the Stade de la Mosson), and that venues were packed for pretty much every game in france, and its very easy to why RWC 2011 is shaping up to be a financial disaster.

Dont get me wrong, I am sure New Zealand will put on a great show, and will make for a memorable time for all who visit the country (I am gutted I can't find the time to - as I type this I have the brochure beside my PC and am seriously jealous of my mates who have booked up  )

But when the dust settles, the figures will not make for good reading for the IRB, and hence they decided not to risk taking the 2015 tournament to Japan (and it is a risk - in my opinion, it is a risk worth taking, but it is still a risk)

England however is a virtually garunteed financial success - or as close as you can get in this sport.


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## Alx-D (Oct 21, 2008)

What are the stadium requirements for a RWC? I know a rugby field will fit easily within any CFL stadium, but how many stadiums of what capacity would be required? We are starting to build new or renovated stadiums across the country, and a RWC would be a good way to help pay for them.


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## Weebie (May 29, 2006)

Yeah New Zealand hosting this thing is a waste of time and clearly the country is struggling to host anything similar to What Australia did in 2003 and France did in 2007. considering the tv rights, location and attendance this is a huge step back and Japan should of had it this time around.

Italy or USA shoulf get it


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## crazydude (Aug 4, 2009)

Alx-D said:


> What are the stadium requirements for a RWC? I know a rugby field will fit easily within any CFL stadium, but how many stadiums of what capacity would be required? We are starting to build new or renovated stadiums across the country, and a RWC would be a good way to help pay for them.


How big are CFL fields? I ask as NFL fields are normally too small for rugby. A rugby field needs to be 100m by 70m, with 2 'in goal areas' (I think they call them end zones in the US and Canada) of about 10m to 20m. The IRB seem to be quite flexible though, especially with the in goal areas, as some of the English football stadiums will struggle to fit the fields.

As for the stadium sizes, I don't think the IRB are too strict, nothing like FIFA. Probably something like 10 to 15 stadiums, at least 30 000 seats, and a 60 000 seater for the semis and final.


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## lwa (Aug 2, 2010)

crazydude said:


> How big are CFL fields? I ask as NFL fields are normally too small for rugby. A rugby field needs to be 100m by 70m, with 2 'in goal areas' (I think they call them end zones in the US and Canada) of about 10m to 20m. The IRB seem to be quite flexible though, especially with the in goal areas, as some of the English football stadiums will struggle to fit the fields.
> 
> As for the stadium sizes, I don't think the IRB are too strict, nothing like FIFA. Probably something like 10 to 15 stadiums, at least 30 000 seats, and a 60 000 seater for the semis and final.


most of the NZ stadiums are in the range 20,000-30,000 - dont think the IRB actually have any form of guidance on the matter though... so long as the stadiums are of what they deem a 'reasonable size'. In a country with the facilities/population of Canada, they may want something slightly larger than 60k for the final? I doubt they would any bother filling it for the final, since Canada is relativley easy to get to/find accomodation in ect.

They are however slightly stricter on the field size when it comes to RWC's - technically, there are no minimum dimensions for a rugby pitch (except for the ingoals), just maximums. (in reality, I think there is a lower limit for international competitions) However, in France atleast, the IRB wanted every pitch to be of identical size (otherwise the choice of venue may be to team A's advantage/disadvantage). I know this was enforced, since I sat behind the posts at Murrayfield wondering why the pitch was about 10 metres further away than it normally is - the pitch at Murrayfield is the biggest you can get at 70mX144m including the in-goal areas, but was reduced to (I think) 68mX120m for the RWC. They dont require any particular dimensions, only that all venues have the same dimensions.


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## Alx-D (Oct 21, 2008)

A Canadian football field is much larger than an American field. Ours are 65x150 yards (110 yard field plus two 20 yard end zones). That is roughly 60x137m, and there is enough space on the sidelines to accommodate a 68m wide FIFA pitch. We could easily go 68x130m (15m end zones) without any stadium modification.

Useable Canadian stadiums would be:

Stadé Olympique, Montréal- 66,300*
BC Place, Vancouver- 60,000
Commonwealth Stadium, Edmonton- 60,000
SkyDome, Toronto- 52,200
Proposed Rough Riders Stadium- 35,000-50,000**
Blue Bombers Stadium- 40,000**
McMahon Stadium, Calgary- 46,000*
Pan Am Stadium, Hamilton- 25,000-35,000**
Frank Clair Stadium, Ottawa- 25,000+
Percival Molson Stadium, Montreal- 25,000
PEPS Stadium, Quebec City- 10,200, would need an expansion for CFL or RWC

*Capacity listed with Grey Cup temporary seating
**Currently proposed stadiums


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## Alx-D (Oct 21, 2008)

*edit-double posted for some reason


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## crazydude (Aug 4, 2009)

Alx-D said:


> A Canadian football field is much larger than an American field. Ours are 65x150 yards (110 yard field plus two 20 yard end zones). That is roughly 60x137m, and there is enough space on the sidelines to accommodate a 68m wide FIFA pitch. We could easily go 68x130m (15m end zones) without any stadium modification.
> 
> Useable Canadian stadiums would be:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info on CFL fields, but I still think that 2023 will go to a 'safe option'. 2019 in Japan is about growing the game, so for 2023 I expect the IRB will want the WC back in traditional rugby playing country. Excluding England and NZ, that would leave Australia (2003 hosts), France (2007) , a Ireland/Scotland/Wales bid (have been part hosts before) and South Africa (1995). The only other option I can think of would be Argentina.


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## T74 (Jun 17, 2010)

crazydude said:


> Thanks for the info on CFL fields, but I still think that 2023 will go to a 'safe option'. 2019 in Japan is about growing the game, so for 2023 I expect the IRB will want the WC back in traditional rugby playing country. Excluding England and NZ, that would leave Australia (2003 hosts), France (2007) , a Ireland/Scotland/Wales bid (have been part hosts before) and South Africa (1995). The only other option I can think of would be Argentina.


good points - makes SA look like the likely candidate


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## lwa (Aug 2, 2010)

crazydude said:


> Thanks for the info on CFL fields, but I still think that 2023 will go to a 'safe option'. 2019 in Japan is about growing the game, so for 2023 I expect the IRB will want the WC back in traditional rugby playing country. Excluding England and NZ, that would leave Australia (2003 hosts), France (2007) , a Ireland/Scotland/Wales bid (have been part hosts before) and South Africa (1995). The only other option I can think of would be Argentina.


Would quite like to see a joint bid between Ireland an Scotland if that is the case (a real joint bid - 2 pools in Ireland, 2 pools in Scotland ect.). Neither country has ever done more than a bit-part, hosting a couple of games of someone elses tournament. I also feel culturally Scotland and Ireland are far closer than either are with Wales - so in my opinion would be the obvious ones to link up (and they have in the past, bidding for Euro 2008)

Could easilly host the tournament between them (not sure about Ireland, but Scotland doesn't quite have the infrastructre to go it alone), using something like.

Scotland (some of):
Murrayfield (67,800)
Parkhead (60,832)
Hampden (52,103)
Ibrox (51,082)
Aberdeen Arena (planning application lodged today - 21,000)
Easter Road (20,250)
Rugby Park (~18,000)
Tannadice/Dens Park/McDiarmid Park (15,000/11,000/12,000) Realistically, with so and proximity, only one would be used

Ireland (only using venues that have held rugby in the past):
Croke park (83,000)
Aviva Stadium (51,700)
Thomond Park (27,000)
Musgrave Park (8,000 today, but plans to extend to 20,000)
Royal Dublin Society (20,000)
Ravenhill (officially 10,000, but has held 20,000 in the past and probably could again)

If Croke Park is available, then that is the obvious choice for the final - if not then Murrayfield would still be big enough.

If you add in a couple of the GAA venues (pairc na nGael in Limerick, Casement Park...) or a new NI stadium, then you easilly have enough grounds to host it and most are already there (only Aberdeen in Scotland - planning application pending, but there is always Pittodrie there anyway - is not built yet, while of the Irish ones Ravenhill is under development - well, stage one is finished, stage 2 on hold - and Musgrave Park will probably follow suite in the next few years)

Host a pool in Glasgow/Kilmarnock, a pool in Edinburgh/Dundee/Aberdeen, a pool in Belfast/Dublin and a pool in Dublin/Cork/Limerick, Quarters in Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dublin and Limerick (if Pairc na Gael is used), semi's in Edinburgh and Dublin, 3/4 PO in Glasgow and Final in Dublin. Could be a cracking tournament...



I would also add (assuming we are going for a safe option) Italy's name into the ring - close enough to the European heavyweights that you are garunteed large travelling support, is already a really popular destination in the 6 Nations calendar among supporters and has plenty of (albeit in need of attention) grounds in place.


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## Martin Ferraro (Jan 6, 2003)

Argentina!!!
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=18323447696

*Buenos Aires*
River: 55000









Independiente (en construcción): 45000









Velez: 36000










*La Plata*
Único (en construcción): 45000









*Córdoba*
Chateau (en construcción): 55000









*Santa Fe*
Colón (en construcción): 40000









*Rosario*
Central (proyecto): 55000









*Mendoza*
Mundialista: 35000









*Mar del Plata*
Mundialista: 35000









*San Juan*
Bicentenario (en construcción): 25000


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## Kazurro (Jan 23, 2005)

JimB said:


> In what way is the game elitist?
> 
> If the likes of Romania, *Spain*, Russia and Georgia can all have rugby teams with aspirations to qualify for the World Cup, I see no good reason why Germany can't too.


Spain qualified for 1999 RWC. But nowadays we're very far in terms of quality of these NT's. In the RWC qualifying we got 2 wins and 8 losts, and the 2 wins were versus Germany. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Rugby_World_Cup_–_Europe_qualification

And our level keeps declining as we dont have a profesional league. Only a National Championship where most players earn less than 200 euros a moth.

And organising a RWC? We're very far from it.


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## kerouac1848 (Jun 9, 2009)

Italy. Ticks the box of a new market like Argentina, yet can also match the traditional powers like South Africa in the commercial stakes (Large stadia charging hefty ticket prices with significant numbers of English, French, Irish, Aus, etc making the trip). Serie A could do with some upgrading of its grounds as well.


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## francos1989 (Jul 18, 2009)

Argentina


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## crazydude (Aug 4, 2009)

kerouac1848 said:


> Italy. Ticks the box of a new market like Argentina, yet can also match the traditional powers like South Africa in the commercial stakes (Large stadia charging hefty ticket prices with significant numbers of English, French, Irish, Aus, etc making the trip). Serie A could do with some upgrading of its grounds as well.


Italy could put up a good case. The three most likely bids would be South Africa Ireland/Scotland and Italy.


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## Maipo Valley (Feb 3, 2008)

argentina. by far. they are the most passionate about teams sports, including rugby (and is very popular there). they also play good, they can host and win like in the 78 football world cup. plus, with argentina hosting the rwc chile finally can go to the world cup (if the IRB gives another place to southamerica)


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## sweet-d (Jul 20, 2010)

Archbishop said:


> There would be no way that they wouldn't have games in Salt Lake City. Utah is the home of American rugby.


Yeah I guess you've got me on that one the only place they could play would be at the University of Utah or maybe BYU which I think is near Salt Lake City. But this all depends on if other events would be allowed to be held at the stadia in 2023. Hopefully they don't act like the Football World Cup.


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## crazydude (Aug 4, 2009)

sweet-d said:


> Yeah I guess you've got me on that one the only place they could play would be at the University of Utah or maybe BYU which I think is near Salt Lake City. But this all depends on if other events would be allowed to be held at the stadia in 2023. Hopefully they don't act like the Football World Cup.


I asked this question in another thread, and the answer was no. During the 2007 RWC, stadiums hosted RWC matches French League 1 (football) and UEFA Champions League matches.


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## MatuARG (Sep 21, 2010)

ARGENTINA!!!!
The RWC has never been host in America and Argentina has/(Can build) stadiums for such an important event...and Argentian is clearly the most important Union in america 

just a stadium that argentina is improving for the 2011 Copa America for (+-50 000) in La Plata 









and a beautiful stadium in Mendoza (45 000) that needs minor repairs and a roof


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## cornelinho (Aug 19, 2008)

Romania:smug:


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## CharlieP (Sep 12, 2002)

I would love to see Argentina host the Rugby World Cup, if they can come up with the required quantity and quality of stadia. Failing that, Italy ought to get a go next.


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## chibimatty (Oct 6, 2010)

It would be Argentina for me! But I would like to see some more development in the region in the years leading up to it. The Pumas will be in the SANZAR comp for a while by then, and hopefully there will be some sort of "South American Gauchos" team in the Super Rugby by that stage also. There has been a little bit of talk about this for the home-based Argentine players and also to see the inclusion of Uruguayans and Chileans. The Chileans had a pretty good team a few years back and it would be a shame if they started to drop off. It would be good if the game could be built up enough by then to be able to host RWC games in Uruguay and Chile as part of the Argentine event.

I think it's beholden to the established nations to try and share the World Cup with smaller nations when they can and I love the idea of Singapore and Hong Kong being included in Japan's bid. I think it would have been nice to see Fiji, Tonga and Samoa get a couple of home games at this year's tournament, but I think NZ may have enough trouble hosting it themselves, as we have seen with their indecisiveness in working out the stadium for the Cup Final, or when they fluffed the sub-hosting rights for 2003. The Christchurch earthquake is not going to help matters either.

I hope that if France host the tournament again (which was one of the best) that this time they play games in other Francophone areas across the border in Switzerland and Belgium. And the games in the Basque and Catalan rugby strongholds could be played across the border in Spain; in Barcelona, San Sebastien, Bilbao, Valencia. I think it would be wonderful to treat Andorra to a small fixture and maybe play the 3rd place game in Monaco. There's no reason why Northern Italy couldn't be included either. As long as they don't play games in the British Isles.

The British Isles themselves could host a Celtic bid, an England bid, a Great Britain bid, a British Isles bid, or (my personal favourite) even a Scottish bid. I for one believe that if Sweden can host Euro '92, or Portugal can host Euro 2004 and New Zealand can host RWC 2011, then Scotland should be able to handle a Rugby World Cup on it's own. It already has the advantage of having the stadia suitable for the big knockout stages (Ibrox, Parkhead, Hamden, Murrayfield.) Can you imagine a month of hogmanay rugby-fun throughout Scotland in the summertime? It'd be like a nation-wide Edinburgh Fringe Festival!


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## crazyalex (May 21, 2010)

Argentina ofcouse

Who the hell vote Germany & Spain, both country didnt give shit about rugby


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## Marsupalami (Jan 29, 2009)

South Africa !! - we've only hosted it the once for petes sakes, and we are one of the Kingpins!! - we are a changed country both in improvement of our fragile new democracy back in 95, and in terms of classy, classy infrastructure!! Theres nothing we cant handel, and the stands will be full! - 40000, 50000, 95000 stadiums abound - lest bring it back to Africa!!


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## TurkishBelgian (Oct 4, 2009)

I hope Turkey! Because in 2023, Turkish Republic will be 100 years old


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## CharlieP (Sep 12, 2002)

Marsupalami said:


> South Africa !! - we've only hosted it the once for petes sakes, and we are one of the *Epicentres* !!


hno: hno: hno:


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## Marsupalami (Jan 29, 2009)

Sorry dude - purely innocent and ill fitting choice of words - no disrespect!


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## GoluBoy (Nov 3, 2006)

2023 RWC has to be Argentina.


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## chibimatty (Oct 6, 2010)

TurkishBelgian said:


> I hope Turkey! Because in 2023, Turkish Republic will be 100 years old


Ha ha! That's a cute sentiment! Happy 100th birthday for 2023! And best of luck with the bid! 

But, do you guys even know what a rugby ball looks like?!


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## essendon bombers (Apr 27, 2008)

Argentina with group games in Uruguay and Chile, then maybe Italy or South Africa in 2027.


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## DennisRodman817 (May 10, 2010)

Its a no brainer...south africa should host it....they have all the facilities ready....and they are a superpower in the game and also the current world champs


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## Matthew Lowry (Dec 23, 2009)

Argentina should host Bring the Cup to South America for the 1st time.


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## ArnageWRC (Mar 8, 2011)

Rugby, like cricket, needs new markets, so holding it in one of the established countries is dumb. Argentina seems the most sensible.


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## carnifex2005 (May 12, 2010)

As much as I think that Canada could easily successfully host a RWC, Argentina should be the first country in the Americas to host one.


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## GanEden (Sep 23, 2008)

WHERE'S THE WHO CARES OPTION? Why are we so concerned about a two bit bore-a-thon of a sport that will always live in the HUGE shadow of soccer????


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## GanEden (Sep 23, 2008)

likasz said:


> Argentina, or Italy.
> 
> But I think that rugby union will be dead after OG 2016.
> 
> ...


You could be right, unless they merge with Rugby League?


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## RobH (Mar 9, 2007)

GanEden said:


> WHERE'S THE WHO CARES OPTION? Why are we so concerned about a two bit bore-a-thon of a sport that will always live in the HUGE shadow of soccer????


Did the ever-so-complicated thread title confuse confuse you?

If you don't care don't come into the thread. Simples. hno:


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## Marsupalami (Jan 29, 2009)

RobH said:


> Did the ever-so-complicated thread title confuse confuse you?
> 
> If you don't care don't come into the thread. Simples. hno:


I agree - Rugby Union IS huge - its a collosal sport - where real men make impressive amounts of calculated risks and tactical brilliance mixed with brute force - no time for ninnies in this format.

South Africa would host a damn good RWC in my opinion. We have the fans like few other places, and we have the stadia too.


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## chibimatty (Oct 6, 2010)

GanEden said:


> WHERE'S THE WHO CARES OPTION? Why are we so concerned about a two bit bore-a-thon of a sport that will always live in the HUGE shadow of soccer????





RobH said:


> Did the ever-so-complicated thread title confuse confuse you?
> 
> If you don't care don't come into the thread. Simples. hno:


Now now, Rob, the poor guy's a soccer fan, he probably DID have trouble reading the thread title. They're not known for their education. :lol:


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## bicho84 (Oct 13, 2009)

how about a Georgia or Romania? Rugby growing rapidli in both countries.


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## lwa (Aug 2, 2010)

bicho84 said:


> how about a Georgia or Romania? Rugby growing rapidli in both countries.


As much as I would like to see the RWC going to an emerging nation, there are 2 big stumbling blocks with that idea.

Firstly, neither country really has the infrastructure required to host a RWC. (time for that to change though, I suppose)

and Secondly, it would be a big risk. I have no doubt about Gerogia's passion for their national side (60,000 at a ENC match confirms that), but is there the interest to bring in the numbers France did in 2007, or England will in 2015? Bear in mind the IRB are already taking a similar risk 4 years earlier with Japan - I can't see another country outside the top 10 hosting it until 2027 at the earliest (aside from maybe a couple of games)

The above is especially true when there are relativly safe options while still taking the tournament outside the traditional powerhouses (Italy for example - growing support among Italians, and easy to get to for the other 6 Nations countries)


(And I would argue Russia is a better bet for an eastern europe RWC anyway)


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## CharlieP (Sep 12, 2002)

chibimatty said:


> Now now, Rob, the poor guy's a soccer fan, he probably DID have trouble reading the thread title. They're not known for their education. :lol:


He's actually a rugby league troll.


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## TEBC (Dec 26, 2004)

SA for 2023 and Argentina for 2027


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## Danis (Sep 28, 2011)

JimB said:


> I very much doubt that anything is decided on the basis of hemisphere.
> 
> More than likely that, after Japan, the RWC will return to Europe. That's where rugby has its largest supporter base. So, if the IRB are keen to take the tournament to a new host, Italy would be the obvious choice.
> 
> Otherwise, Argentina would be a good call. Best rugby playing nation never to have hosted the World Cup.


Largest supporter base? You are hugely underestimating the SANZAR nations, Europe will never rival the likes of New Zealand and South Africa when it comes to support. The utterly boring game of football has and will probably always be the top priority of the European nations.Where in South Africa for instance some Currie Cup games (Domestic competition) attract more than 48000 supporters not even mentioning tri-nations encounters .


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## JYDA (Jul 14, 2008)

Danis said:


> Largest supporter base? You are hugely underestimating the SANZAR nations, Europe will never rival the likes of New Zealand and South Africa when it comes to support. The utterly boring game of football has and will probably always be the top priority of the European nations.Where in South Africa for instance some Currie Cup games (Domestic competition) attract more than 48000 supporters not even mentioning tri-nations encounters .


I'm pretty sure "largest supporter base" was in reference to the high concentration of world cup participants in the region. A lot of fanbases can make a day trip to see a match at a european world cup as opposed to having to plan a vacation around visiting a southern hemisphere world cup.


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## krudmonk (Jun 14, 2007)

A bit radical, but how about Romania and Georgia hold group and knockout matches up to the final at the new Olympic stadium in Sochi (Russia)? That hits three emerging nations in one tournament.


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## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

Rugby Union certainly has to start playing more "exhibition" internationals in potential or under utilised markets like Australia and New Zealand's recent matches in Hong Kong and Tokyo. Something like England vs Ireland in Boston or England vs France in Montreal or New Orleans.


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## Marsupalami (Jan 29, 2009)

thats a great idea Wallbanger!!
PS - South Africa should host the damn thing in 2023 - We really REALLY have the stadiums to generate more cash then anywhere else on earth, and the passionate fans to put bums in seat!!


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## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

I'm happy for Australia to for go any notion of host rotation in favour of an new frontier.


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## flierfy (Mar 4, 2008)

Danis said:


> Largest supporter base? You are hugely underestimating the SANZAR nations, Europe will never rival the likes of New Zealand and South Africa when it comes to support. The utterly boring game of football has and will probably always be the top priority of the European nations.Where in South Africa for instance some Currie Cup games (Domestic competition) attract more than 48000 supporters not even mentioning tri-nations encounters .


Just that Rugby isn't even the most popular game in South Africa. And the other two tri-nations are virtually unpopulated. Hence the poor attendance figures at this years World Cup.

If you want to draw large crowds you have to go where there is both, lots of people and enthusiasm for the game. In terms of Rugby there is no better place than western Europe.


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## KiwiRob (Aug 2, 2009)

Poor attendance figurers, they sold out most games, even the ones with minnows playing minnows!!!

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/destinationnewzealand/news/newsid=2054827.html

The 2010 Football World Cup in SA was plagued by poor attendances, many stadiums had 10,000 or more unsold seats. Considering the size of the venues played in 49,000 per game is pretty poor. Whereas in NZ for the current Wolrd Cup 768,000 people have been to 28 matches with 20 matches to go, an average of 27,000 is pretty good, nearly 1.4 million bums on seats for the tournament is pretty good, that's nearly 1/3 of NZ's population, SA didn't even come close to 10% in 2010.


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## Mo Rush (Nov 13, 2004)

KiwiRob said:


> Poor attendance figurers, they sold out most games, even the ones with minnows playing minnows!!!
> 
> http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/destinationnewzealand/news/newsid=2054827.html
> 
> *The 2010 Football World Cup in SA was plagued by poor attendances, many stadiums had 10,000 or more unsold seats. Considering the size of the venues played in 49,000 per game is pretty poor. Whereas in NZ for the current Wolrd Cup 768,000 people have been to 28 matches with 20 matches to go, an average of 27,000 is pretty good, nearly 1.4 million bums on seats for the tournament is pretty good, that's nearly 1/3 of NZ's population, SA didn't even come close to 10% in 2010.*


I'm missing your point. Surely you're not that ignorant. Or at least you haven't previously appeared to be.


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## Konig (Dec 7, 2010)

Guys what you say about Russia? 
We are a big country, a new rugby market. I get the feeling that in the last month of interest to rugby in Russia increased by several times. Earlier in the sports media rarely mention rugby, and now probably in 3rd place after the football and hockey. 
I think we can use some of the stadiums after FIFA WC 2018 + to build a few new ones. But at least after 2018 in the European part of Russia will be 19 new stadiums with a capacity of 30,000 to 90,000. 
By the way, what are the requirements for the IRB to the cities and stadiums? How many cities (minimum-maximum), what is the minimum capacity of arenas?


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## lwa (Aug 2, 2010)

Konig said:


> Guys what you say about Russia?
> We are a big country, a new rugby market. I get the feeling that in the last month of interest to rugby in Russia increased by several times. Earlier in the sports media rarely mention rugby, and now probably in 3rd place after the football and hockey.
> I think we can use some of the stadiums after FIFA WC 2018 + to build a few new ones. But at least after 2018 in the European part of Russia will be 19 new stadiums with a capacity of 30,000 to 90,000.
> By the way, what are the requirements for the IRB to the cities and stadiums? How many cities (minimum-maximum), what is the minimum capacity of arenas?


Don't think the IRB have stringent requirements - Japan haven't even said how many countries they are using yet!

Russia (provided the FIFA WC stadiums can accomodate rugby pitches, which I would guess they probably can) could easilly host it. Only minus is it would be seen as another big risk after Japan. Would expect 2027 at the earliest for another Tier 2/3 host. Could be Russia, provided 2023 isn't in Europe though.



As for SANZAR having a bigger support base than Europe - obviously never been to southern France...


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## Pepe potamo (Nov 23, 2010)

When will this decision be made? Of course I'm with Argentina.


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## MS20 (Apr 12, 2009)

Konig said:


> Guys what you say about Russia?
> We are a big country, a new rugby market. I get the feeling that in the last month of interest to rugby in Russia increased by several times. Earlier in the sports media rarely mention rugby, and now probably in 3rd place after the football and hockey.
> I think we can use some of the stadiums after FIFA WC 2018 + to build a few new ones. But at least after 2018 in the European part of Russia will be 19 new stadiums with a capacity of 30,000 to 90,000.
> By the way, what are the requirements for the IRB to the cities and stadiums? How many cities (minimum-maximum), what is the minimum capacity of arenas?


For now, I can only assume that minimum capacity is low, because NZ has a couple that are just over 15,000 that were used. But in England there won't be any under 20,000. 

Also, might want to give it a bit of time after a WC to judge the popularity of rugby in Russia. Pretty natural for there to be increased interest during the WC. 

Russia is certainly a major candidate for being a future host of the RWC, but not anytime soon. Still has a lot to show before it can be a viable option.


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## Andy-i (Nov 25, 2009)

MS20 said:


> For now, I can only assume that minimum capacity is low, because NZ has a couple that are just over 15,000 that were used. *But in England there won't be any under 20,000. *
> 
> Also, might want to give it a bit of time after a WC to judge the popularity of rugby in Russia. Pretty natural for there to be increased interest during the WC.
> 
> Russia is certainly a major candidate for being a future host of the RWC, but not anytime soon. Still has a lot to show before it can be a viable option.


Kingsholm, home of Gloucester Rugby, is one of the RWC2015 stadiums. It has a capacity of 16500.


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## MS20 (Apr 12, 2009)

Andy-i said:


> Kingsholm, home of Gloucester Rugby, is one of the RWC2015 stadiums. It has a capacity of 16500.


Yes, but it's being expanded to 19,700. Which technically I suppose is under 20,000, but I wasn't far off.


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## luciaparkison (Oct 1, 2011)

*the bid must go to south africa ?*

the bid must go to South Africa.because they show there potential to host the big sporting events like cricket,football world cups . so thats why my vote gone to south africa


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## MS20 (Apr 12, 2009)

luciaparkison said:


> the bid must go to South Africa.because they show there potential to host the big sporting events like cricket,football world cups . so thats why my vote gone to south africa


It will have been 6 World Cup's since South Africa last hosted. No one doubt's SA's potential, and after a Japan South Africa seems like the most logical established rugby nation for hosting, with pretty much every other big nation already having hosted in that time. Italy/Argentina may be expected to bid, who knows. They'll have competition that's for sure. 

In fact their hosting of the 95' WC if anything showed that they could host a FIFA WC, not the other way round.


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## JuanCA.- (Oct 4, 2011)

Argentina!


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## corredor06 (Oct 13, 2008)

Argentina


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## Marsupalami (Jan 29, 2009)

South Africa - and as for the post earlier from some douche who said that the Football WC was poorly attended - blame Fifa ticketing, high prices and lack of international visitors due to Global financial Crisis. those that did experience one of the best tournaments and host atmosheres in the planet. We will rock the RWC, and we will have massive, massive local interest. Our local Currie Cup regularly exceeds 45ooo bums on seats, and had done for 50 years or more. With our killer new stadiums, we can reach new rugby markets withing our own country, such as the north, and nothwest. - Black South African love rugby too, and will be a big part of the atmosphere more than 95, and for that reason will almost be better than that one!


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## crazydude (Aug 4, 2009)

Marsupalami said:


> South Africa - and as for the post earlier from some douche who said that the Football WC was poorly attended - blame Fifa ticketing, high prices and lack of international visitors due to Global financial Crisis. those that did experience one of the best tournaments and host atmosheres in the planet. We will rock the RWC, and we will have massive, massive local interest. Our local Currie Cup regularly exceeds 45ooo bums on seats, and had done for 50 years or more. With our killer new stadiums, we can reach new rugby markets withing our own country, such as the north, and nothwest. - Black South African love rugby too, and will be a big part of the atmosphere more than 95, and for that reason will almost be better than that one!


SA can host a great Rugby Wolrd Cup. I wouldn't be bragging about the Currie Cup attendance though, it's not getting 45 000 people very often, and the averages are not as good as they should be in a country which likes rugby this much.

In terms of stadiums, hospitality, and TIMEZONE, SA would be a great choice though.


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## Andy-i (Nov 25, 2009)

MS20 said:


> Yes, but it's being expanded to 19,700. Which technically I suppose is under 20,000, but I wasn't far off.


Some expansion plans have been mooted for quite a while but nothing concrete has happened so far.

I doubt that Gloucester will finance the expansion as their average crowd is around 80% of their current 16500 capacity and they only sell out 1 or 2 games a season.

Perhaps the IRB might offer to pay for the expansion but I wouldn't hold my breath!


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## machii (Sep 2, 2010)

*ARGENTINA*

Monumental, Buenos Aires 65000









Ciudad De La Plata, La Plata 36000









Minella, Mar Del Plata 35000









Coloso Marcelo Bielsa, Rosario 38000









Gigante De Arroyito, Rosario 41000









Brigadier Lopez, Santa Fe 38000









Malvinas Argentinas, Mendoza 45000









Mario A Kempes, Cordoba 57000









Monumetal Jose Fierro, Tucuman 32000









Estadio Bicentenario, San Juan 25000









Estadio Centenario, Chaco 25000









Estadio Padre Ernesto Martearena, Salta 20000


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## bdowhan (Oct 7, 2011)

*Why not North America?*

It would be interesting to have Canada and the US cooperate on a joint bid. There is no difficulty with facilities, due to the gridiron football fields and the MLS soccer fields. Geography could be difficult with jet lag. Problem solved, have pool a and pool b play in the west (Vegas, LA, Colorado, Vancouver, Calgary, etc.) and have pool c and pool d play in the east (Toronto, Boston, New York, Montreal, etc.). The playoffs could be in central cities (Chicago, KC, Dallas, Detroit, etc.) It would invigorate the sport in these two countries. The large amount of immigrants from around the world would definitely support it.


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## Andy-i (Nov 25, 2009)

bdowhan said:


> It would be interesting to have Canada and the US cooperate on a joint bid. There is no difficulty with facilities, due to the gridiron football fields and the MLS soccer fields. Geography could be difficult with jet lag. Problem solved, have pool a and pool b play in the west (Vegas, LA, Colorado, Vancouver, Calgary, etc.) and have pool c and pool d play in the east (Toronto, Boston, New York, Montreal, etc.). The playoffs could be in central cities (Chicago, KC, Dallas, Detroit, etc.) It would invigorate the sport in these two countries. The large amount of immigrants from around the world would definitely support it.


The Logistics might be difficult as the RWC normally takes place in Sep/Oct/Nov when the NFL and MLS seasons would be taking place.

This is a similar situation to the RWC 2015 and its use of Football grounds.
However RWC 2015 is also using 4 rugby grounds and Wembley and only 1 knock-out game in 2015 will be at a club ground (The 3rd place playoff at the Emirates) making it easier to fit games in around the footy fixtures.


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## Pepe potamo (Nov 23, 2010)

bdowhan said:


> It would be interesting to have Canada and the US cooperate on a joint bid. There is no difficulty with facilities, due to the gridiron football fields and the MLS soccer fields. Geography could be difficult with jet lag. Problem solved, have pool a and pool b play in the west (Vegas, LA, Colorado, Vancouver, Calgary, etc.) and have pool c and pool d play in the east (Toronto, Boston, New York, Montreal, etc.). The playoffs could be in central cities (Chicago, KC, Dallas, Detroit, etc.) It would invigorate the sport in these two countries. The large amount of immigrants from around the world would definitely support it.


Yankees (no, I won't say "americans") don't even know what rugby is. They don't deserve to host. The first country in the Americas to host a RWC shoud be Argentina.


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

Hey my old post is actually getting some post now due to wc. I think maybe italy than argentina, hopefully both of them host a major football tournament before to get top of the range stadia. Maybe euro 2020? And a copa america


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## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

A 2023 RWC in Argentina would be the perfect presentation to FIFA what Argentina can provide for their 2030 bid.


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## lwa (Aug 2, 2010)

Pepe potamo said:


> Yankees (no, I won't say "americans") don't even know what rugby is. They don't deserve to host. *The first country in the Americas to host a RWC shoud be Argentina.*


This.

Have the facilities (although admittedly some of them could use a lick of paint.. Or a bit more than that!), Have the passionate fans, Have a home side that should do reasonably well (not a pre-requisite, but certainly helps get the nation excited about it), and did a fantastic job of hosting last years Junior World Championships.

Also wouldn't mind seeing 3 pools hosted in Argentina, with the 4th hosted in Uruquay (provided they qualify)

Mind you, My support for an Argentine RWC is entirely conditional on Scotland getting to play at least 1 game here! 















USA/Canada - Nothing against either of them, but not convinced the RWC would really get noticed. Particulalrly in the USA. Might be wrong, but regardless, there are others who deserve a shot first.

South Africa - Would do a fantastic job, have the facilities, have the support base ect. Certainly a safe bet, but they held '95. Yes that will be a 28 year gap, but there are still viable hosts who have never hosted it. Let someone else have a chance, eh? You can be the next 'safe host' after someone does a NZ 

Russia - Lets see how they get on hosting the RWC 7's in 2 years before, and what that does for the sport there.


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## MS20 (Apr 12, 2009)

^Japan will be the real test of whether future "minnows" can put on good tournaments. There is a good reason the IRB keep going back to foundation members, and that's because they put on successful tournaments. 2023 will almost certainly be another foundation member (South Africa for many reasons). 2027 is the first real open date for Russia/Italy/Argentina. 16 years is a long time and it might make way more sense closer to that time.


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## ShakeyNZ (Sep 16, 2007)

Well, first of all, the rotation imo should be northern/southern hemisphere. We're gonna have England and then Japan so 23 has to go to the Southern Hemisphere. This is one of the few events in the world where dominance is in the South .
If Argentina wants to bid, then I'd go with them. They are one of the few powers who have not hosted World Cup matches.
If not them , back to the Republic I think.

Russia, nah. For the sake of giving it to a new different country, first of all, that's an insult to the likes of Argentina and Italy who have a good developed rugby culture already who have not hosted.
Development needs to come from Russia first.


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## MS20 (Apr 12, 2009)

ShakeyNZ said:


> Well, first of all, the rotation imo should be northern/southern hemisphere. We're gonna have England a*nd then Japan so 23 has to go to the Southern Hemisphere.* This is one of the few events in the world where dominance is in the South .
> *If Argentina wants to bid, then I'd go with them. They are one of the few powers who have not hosted World Cup matches.
> If not them , back to the Republic I think.*


All will depend on how Japan goes. But, in any scenario, Saffer WC will be far more lucrative than Argentina. Bigger attendances, European timezone, developed corporate support for rugby etc. And their stadiums are far superior to Argentina's. They have something like 13 world class facilities over 30,000 ready to go today.

Id be very surprised if 2023 wasn't in South Africa. Its too logical.


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## ShakeyNZ (Sep 16, 2007)

I would also think South Africa would get alot of support from the NZ Rugby Union after South Africa voted for them for the 2011 tournament (well, after they were out of the race at least).
They could possibly (you would hope) carry the entire SANZAR vote (although Australia showed that it's not always the case when they went for Japan for 2011)


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## CharlieP (Sep 12, 2002)

likasz said:


> The thing that stops development of rugby is automatic qualification for 12 teams (out of 20 spots!) to the next World Cup!
> 
> Too much!


So you think Scotland should have to play qualifiers in order to play in 2015?


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## CharlieP (Sep 12, 2002)

ShakeyNZ said:


> Well, first of all, the rotation imo should be northern/southern hemisphere.


Why, other than for symmetry? :dunno:


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

Just some thoughts i think that the 6 nations should have relegation into a second division 6 nations of the likes of russia, romania, georgia etc with someone getting promoted after 4 years. And secondly i think it should be rotated between a devolping and establised nations as to hosting after 2019


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

Just some thoughts i think that the 6 nations should have relegation into a second division 6 nations of the likes of russia, romania, georgia etc with someone getting promoted after 4 years. And secondly i think it should be rotated between a devolping and establised nations as to hosting after 2019


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## Konig (Dec 7, 2010)

I have a suggestion. But what if you make the next version in Europe (for example 2012-2015 seasons).
2012 \ 2013 - a typical event in the Six nations and the European Nations Cup (Russia, Romania, Georgia, Spain, and Little Russia (Ukraine)) is carried out qualification, which resulted in the 4 top teams get into the 10 Nations.
2014 \ 2015 - 10 Nations (Six Nations teams + 4 top teams from ENC(2 level)), they are divided into 2 groups for 5 teams, 1-4 places go to RWC15, and the team who took 5th places in the group participates in the play-off for on the RWC15.


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## posavasosderugby (Nov 2, 2011)

*Rugby World Cup Argentina 2023*

Just I wrote about in my blog: http://posavasosderugby.blogspot.com/2011/11/rugby-world-cup-argentina-2023.html


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## eomer (Nov 15, 2003)

After England and Japon, the IRB RWB will logicaly goes back to southern hemisphere: I think South Africa would be the best choice. Argentina could bid too but SA would won: don't forget that Argentina want to host WC 2030 with Uruguay.

I don't think Italy will bid for 2023 and the "Celtic Bid" is always waited and never comes.


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## Konig (Dec 7, 2010)

Old school Russian rugby 1962. Spartak Moscow vs Khimki in Luzhniki Stadium
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=AU&feature=related&hl=en-GB&v=NpY6ElVYifU


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## TEBC (Dec 26, 2004)

eomer said:


> After England and Japon, the IRB RWB will logicaly goes back to southern hemisphere: I think South Africa would be the best choice. Argentina could bid too but SA would won: don't forget that Argentina want to host WC 2030 with Uruguay.
> 
> I don't think Italy will bid for 2023 and the "Celtic Bid" is always waited and never comes.


Would be nice:

23 South Africa
27 Italy or Russia
31 Argentina (will have the stadiums for FIFA 30)


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Port-au-Prince, Haiti!!


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## thomasKing (Jun 5, 2008)

Harry1990 said:


> Just some thoughts i think that the 6 nations should have relegation into a second division 6 nations of the likes of russia, romania, georgia etc with someone getting promoted after 4 years. And secondly i think it should be rotated between a devolping and establised nations as to hosting after 2019


relegation/promotion to and from the 6Nations would be by far the most effective to kill-off rugby in places like scotland and Italy and certainly hurt it massively elsewhere. 

Scotland would go from 67,000 sell-outs at murrayfield to something closer to 670 for a second divison game against some randomn team with which they have no relationship. and the promoted team would likely just get slaughtered endlessly. 

The huge strength of the 6N is the fact that its internationals but with a huge club-feel to it. Its age-old rivalries between teams that know eachother. Contrast to international football with is often very soul-less nature. Most football internationals are dreadfully boring games between imbalanced teams with little knowledge of eachother and no rivalries. The tournament finals works well, the rest is just sad and very forgettable. Half-empty Wembley tonight for an england football game, which was probably as boring as virtualy all such games. But say England v Wales in even a dead rubber 6N games and you could sell 200,000 very expensive tickets.


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## thomasKing (Jun 5, 2008)

Andy-i said:


> It played at the same time as the 6 nations.
> Its already got Russia, Georgia and Romania it in along with the Ukraine.
> Who are these other Strong East European Rugby countries you want to put in it?
> *Outside the first 3 mentioned above, there arn't any!*
> ...


rugby seems to rely very heavily on rivalries and the big occassions that come with that. Perhaps not least of because of its physical nature. As I wrote above, i dont want to make international rugby as life-less as international football. 

Annual tournaments between teams that can build a rivalry between eachother seem to be the way to go and I think crowds could actually grow quite quickly, more so than the popularity of the game itself.
Scotland is an example of that. Rugby is not that popular there. The fact that their biggest stadium and biggest crowds every year are deliverred by rugby does not paint a true picture of football rugby in scotland. Football is far far more popular. But rugby delivers great events.


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

I do understand your points but scotland should have to merit a place not be in there on histories sake. In my life time (1990) scotland have beaten england 3 times in 21 years and only won 2 5/6 nation titles. I do think they need to do something like maybe the estabilished nations play more friendlies against nations 10-20


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

Just seen england are playing fiji next november, i wish they would play 2 or 3 games a year at other venues around the country like go elland road or anfield or st james park instead of every game at twickers


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## Andy-i (Nov 25, 2009)

thomasKing said:


> relegation/promotion to and from the 6Nations would be by far the most effective to kill-off rugby in places like scotland and Italy and certainly hurt it massively elsewhere.
> 
> Scotland would go from 67,000 sell-outs at murrayfield to something closer to 670 for a second divison game against some randomn team with which they have no relationship. and the promoted team would likely just get slaughtered endlessly.
> 
> The huge strength of the 6N is the fact that its internationals but with a huge club-feel to it. Its age-old rivalries between teams that know eachother. Contrast to international football with is often very soul-less nature. Most football internationals are dreadfully boring games between imbalanced teams with little knowledge of eachother and no rivalries. The tournament finals works well, the rest is just sad and very forgettable. Half-empty Wembley tonight for an england football game, which was probably as boring as virtualy all such games. But say England v Wales in even a dead rubber 6N games and you could sell 200,000 very expensive tickets.


It was a freindly to be fair and the game against Spain was a sell out.

You can't compare Rugby to Football. Football is played to a high professional level in dozens of counties, Rugby isn't.

So Rugby can have yearly tournaments such as the 6N's and Tri-Nations as there is no one else to play. Also England play the same teams virtually every Autumn (eg the 3N's next year). They are big games but they also get very repetitive.

Football has to have a qualifying structure for the WC and Euros. It has to be done due to the number of sides who could qualify.
This means the bigger teams don't play each other very often, so they play the occasional friendly. I'm pretty sure no one attending the Germany-Holland game thought it was boring or pointless.

Also Scotland struggle to sell out some internationals at murrayfield!


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## MS20 (Apr 12, 2009)

*Andy i *

I think hes speaking from a rugby fans perspective. I'm a football fan first, and even the most boring friendlies are more exciting than any Test match in rugby. But I agree with him that have pro/rel in 6Nations would be counterproductive.



> Just seen england are playing fiji next november, i wish they would play 2 or 3 games a year at other venues around the country like go elland road or anfield or st james park instead of every game at twickers


As you probably know Twickenham is owned by the RFU. It wouldn't make sense to gives money to Liverpool FC or NUFC when you can host it at your own home ground and rake in all the money.


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## bicho84 (Oct 13, 2009)

Hi all.... what about european championship in rugby like it is in football??. one of some big countries can host the tournament in every 4 years. participants must be the big six nations rugby countries and other ENC countires(like Georgia, Russia , romania, spain and etc.)


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## TEBC (Dec 26, 2004)

when start the biding process?


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## Marsupalami (Jan 29, 2009)

not for another 5 years at least dude! - its only 2012


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

I'd say Argentina should bid. Otherwise, Canada might make a good choice for the Americas' first Rugby World Cup.

Canada and USA might work, but it would mostly be cities based on the border in a 50/50 shared number of venues (say 6 in Canada and 6 in USA). Have the Opener at Ottawa in Frank Clair Stadium for 45,000. Have the Final match at Washington DC at Fed Ex Field for 100,000. Or alternatively have the opening match at Toronto in perhaps an Olympic sized 80,000 seater venue and the Final at New York City at Medowlands Stadium.


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## likasz (Sep 4, 2008)

It will be Argentina or Italy for SURE!

Canada?Spain?Germany?Few people care about rugby in these countries.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

But Canada's been to the Rugby World Cup 7 times, went to the quarter finals in 1991.

It would be a good opportunity to expand and grow the sport in the region, even if it doesn't necessarily mean what ever existing rugby league there is becomes more professional, or well known.


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## prahovaploiesti (May 28, 2011)

likasz said:


> It will be Argentina or Italy for SURE!
> 
> Canada?Spain?Germany?Few people care about rugby in these countries.


Canada could work.
Maybe Romania, and I'm not saying it as a romanian.
There is interest for rugby here, the main stadium for rugby is almost full at most matches. When the weather is great it is packed. It only has 5500 seats but i think if it was bigger it would be full.
The problem is that except this one there are no other stadiums in great condition thet can be renovated that have the mesurements of a rugby field.


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## vitaming (Oct 5, 2011)

Unfortunately with the IRB's conservative nature and probably some reservations about ticket sales in Japan they will award it to a sure banker (likely SA). Then 2027 will be open to somewhere they can afford to take a gamble on expansion (US, Russia). Countries like Italy and Argentina are sort of caught in the middle.


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## DimitriB (Jun 23, 2009)

Italy would make perfect candidate.

I don't know how many stadiums there are needed to host the wc rugby, but there a few that can host some matches

Turin : Juventus Arena
Milan : San Siro
Genoa : Luigi Ferraris
Florence : Artemio Franchi
Rome : Olimpico
Pescara : Adriatico
Palermo : Renzo Barbera

They're all very good stadiums


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

Im hoping italy 2023 then argentina 2027. Reckon italian stadiums will be much different by 2023 with roma, maybe inter as well as a few other serie a team having new build stadiums they own. What happening to the stadio flamino expansion?


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

And when does bidding for the football world cup 2026 take place maybe argentina will bid for that ? Improve infrustcture, stadia etc


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## likasz (Sep 4, 2008)

prahovaploiesti said:


> Canada could work.
> Maybe Romania, and I'm not saying it as a romanian.
> There is interest for rugby here, the main stadium for rugby is almost full at most matches. When the weather is great it is packed. It only has 5500 seats but i think if it was bigger it would be full.
> The problem is that except this one there are no other stadiums in great condition thet can be renovated that have the mesurements of a rugby field.


I know that rugby in your country is popular but I doubt if it is popular enough. You know you have many bigger stadiums.

In the other hand it can be popular in China in the next 10-15 years so who knows?

Poland played in WC Qualifications before of 6000-7000 fans and rugby is still a new thing here... but with good future.


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## TEBC (Dec 26, 2004)

I hope with argentina being part of rugby championship it gets more popular around South America so they can host it in 2031 after fifa WC


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## prahovaploiesti (May 28, 2011)

Harry1990 said:


> And when does bidding for the football world cup 2026 take place maybe argentina will bid for that ? Improve infrustcture, stadia etc


I don't know. Isn't it too soon after Brazil 2014.
I think 2026 will be China or Australia.
Maybe Argentina will bid for 2030 or 2034.


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## oxo (Jan 20, 2011)

The generous size of the area around the Stadion narodowy pitch in Warsaw is ideally suited for Rugby fixtures and I think that Rugby is gradually gaining more popularity in Poland.
In about 10 years Rugby could have quite a big following in Poland and be as popular as (or nearly as popular as) Speedway.


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## MS20 (Apr 12, 2009)

DimitriB said:


> Italy would make perfect candidate.
> 
> I don't know how many stadiums there are needed to host the wc rugby, but there a few that can host some matches
> 
> ...


Juve dimension is 105 x 68. Is that big enough? I imagine new football stadiums will be built similarly.


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## Marsupalami (Jan 29, 2009)

Agg, look man, Im not being unkind to Italy or Canada, but it HAS to be a southern Hemisphere country - what with England AND THEN Japan .. so its South Africa, or Argentina all the way!!


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## prahovaploiesti (May 28, 2011)

Good point there.
2 consecutive northern hemisphere, so the 2023 should be in South Africa.
Argentina is a good option too.


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## Rascar (Mar 13, 2012)

Further to what vitaming said there seems to be a split between what are seen as "banker" world cups (guaranteed income for the 8 established unions) and more adventurous "spreading the game" world cups (hence Japan).

Surely the best option therefore is Italy, which is arguably both, can still be seen as expanding the games base, but is still a "banker" money wise. i.e. bang in the right timezone for Europe and S.Africa, would get 100,000s of travelling fans from Europe and Europe based Antipodians.


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## TEBC (Dec 26, 2004)

prahovaploiesti said:


> I don't know. Isn't it too soon after Brazil 2014.
> I think 2026 will be China or Australia.
> Maybe Argentina will bid for 2030 or 2034.


you know that we are talking about RUGBY, right?


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## TEBC (Dec 26, 2004)

South Africa should host.. it has the stadiums ready!! Argentina is still too soon, maybe 2031, after they host the 2030 WC


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

If south africa was the host what you reckon for final venue much larger soccer city or the traditional home of the springboks and the venue of the 95 final Ellis park


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

^^ It'll be Ellis Park. Doubtful they'd ever want a bastion for Soccer to get the final, or any matches at all.


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## Mo Rush (Nov 13, 2004)

Rubbish. It would be Soccer City which was the the designate venue for the final in all 3 Rugby World Cup bids.


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## prahovaploiesti (May 28, 2011)

Double post


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## prahovaploiesti (May 28, 2011)

TEBC said:


> you know that we are talking about RUGBY, right?


Yes but I was replying to a post about the world cup 2026 bid.


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## Lord David (May 23, 2009)

Mo Rush said:


> Rubbish. It would be Soccer City which was the the designate venue for the final in all 3 Rugby World Cup bids.


Well it wasn't used for the 1995 World Cup. Nor should it be used for any future one, unless you want things to look stupid when you're using a stadium called Soccer City for a Rugby event.


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

Maybe SC could be used for opening match 94 thousand bok fans would be a sight to behold than have the spiritual home of south african rugby host the final


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

And bit of a wierd question does anyone know how many people are in the pacific islands approx? Know fiji, samoa tonga etc love there rugby especially sevens. Probs not possible infrustucture wise but a future WC there would be amazing


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## Marsupalami (Jan 29, 2009)

Mo Rush said:


> Rubbish. It would be Soccer City which was the the designate venue for the final in all 3 Rugby World Cup bids.


I Agree with Mo - It'll be Soccer City - because this has already been built for dual purpose, and hosted a record breaking crowd on 90000 plus against the All Blacks. This will help bridge the gap in SA life too, as Soccer City is in Soweto, and Rugby is our healing game for our nation, especially since Bafana Bafana are a joke :/


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## Marsupalami (Jan 29, 2009)

Lord David said:


> Well it wasn't used for the 1995 World Cup. Nor should it be used for any future one, unless you want things to look stupid when you're using a stadium called Soccer City for a Rugby event.


Its also known as the National Stadium, and will no doubt be renamed - perhaps after Nelson Mandela one day. Soccer City is the colloquial name for this place - a name the people gave to FNB stadium ( sponsored by a bank )


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## Marsupalami (Jan 29, 2009)

TEBC said:


> South Africa should host.. it has the stadiums ready!! Argentina is still too soon, maybe 2031, after they host the 2030 WC


Would be good if that was the case - they could plan the stadiums to acommodate rugby AND football from construction phase. 
As they say..."build it and they will come" - by that stage Argentine will be performing well in the Rugby Championship ( Tri-nations Southern Hemisphere competition plus them - and perhaps their clubs that feed the Pumas will need bigger grounds and better facilities , and those clubs can be in the Super 15 competition - expanded to Super 20 by then, with national Regional pools. Awesome!!


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## Mo Rush (Nov 13, 2004)

Lord David said:


> Well it wasn't used for the 1995 World Cup. Nor should it be used for any future one, unless you want things to look stupid when you're using a stadium called Soccer City for a Rugby event.


You're wrong on this one, but I'll leave it at that.

http://www.iol.co.za/sport/rugby/springboks/bok-rugby-returns-to-fnb-stadium-1.1258387


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## MS20 (Apr 12, 2009)

Harry1990 said:


> And bit of a wierd question does anyone know how many people are in the pacific islands approx? Know fiji, samoa tonga etc love there rugby especially sevens. Probs not possible infrustucture wise but a future WC there would be amazing


Fiji: 876,000
Tonga: 105,000
Samoa: 185,000

Tonga and Samoa, which made the last WC, are really small as you can see. Just about every borough in London is bigger than Samoa, and almost twice as big as Tonga. 

To say its not possible infrastructure wise is being generous. The whole of Oceania has 37 million people: 22 million in Australia, 4.5 million in New Zealand, 7 million in Papua New Guinea, and then the 20 or so islands make up the other 3.5 million. Its by far the smallest continental region in the world. The next smallest is South America with 380 million.


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

Yer cheers for that is a shame though cause they genuially have a passion for rugby. They should think about maybe a sevens world cup bid


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## Kazurro (Jan 23, 2005)

Well I dont know where to put it, but Spain won for first time in 20 years to Romania, and tops with Georgia the table of European Nations Cup. It's very important as our record vs Romania was 1-27 before the match. The crowd was 10,000 people.

Here you have the highlights of the match.


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

Congrats good to see rugby being followed and improved around the world. Does spain have a home ground or does it do what the national football team does


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## MS20 (Apr 12, 2009)

Thanks for the video. 

Its great to see the last few big euro nations doing well, like italy and spain. The one last mystery is germanys lack of progress. You cant say its because football dominates, because it dominates sapin and italy yet they are producing teams getting results. 

If germany was in italys position in rugby, they would be perfect for a world cup.


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## likasz (Sep 4, 2008)

Rugby could develop faster if top teams could play every season with other teams like Spain, Germany, Russia, Poland, Belgium, etc...


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## tommassi (Jan 20, 2012)

Harry1990 said:


> Congrats good to see rugby being followed and improved around the world. Does spain have a home ground or does it do what the national football team does


Sorry it's in Spanish: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estadio_Nacional_Complutense

It's quite fitting that they play in the stadium of the biggest university in Madrid, since rugby here is mostly played in universities.


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## munster rugby (Aug 20, 2012)

I cant see people travelling over to US and filling 50000 - 60000 seater stadiums in a country that hasnt a strong rugby tradition. 
South Africa hosting the world cup wouldnt make since either after hosting soccer world cup in 2010.
I think it should be Ireland and Argentina to host 2023 and 2027 as they are great rugby nations and have never hosted the rugby world cup and Italy 2031 as they are developing hugely in rugby


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## Lydon (Sep 7, 2007)

munster rugby said:


> South Africa hosting the world cup wouldnt make since either after hosting soccer world cup in 2010.


Why would that not make sense?...


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## munster rugby (Aug 20, 2012)

Lydon said:


> Why would that not make sense?...


they hosted rugby world cup in 1995, soccer world cup in 2010 and they just hosted the rugby world junior championships.. 
Ireland who have never hosted a major tournament and Argentina who have never hosted a rugby world cup, i think they should definitely get the nod ahead of SA


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

i think Italy should get 2023 and Argentina should get 2027, as both teams have improved so much in the last 25 years and both countries could spread the game in there respected areas 

with and Ireland bid you mean a joint bid by both republic and northern ireland, id imagine so as they play as a combined team, one problem is the facilities in the republic are so much more modern to northern ireland and i can only think of 2 stadiums reasonably large in N.Ireland to host games Ravenhill (think ulster player here) and windsor park

i think the IRB shouldnt go back to any of the following countries after 2015 for at least 20 years (England, France, South Africa, New Zealand and Australia) to try and spread the game of rugby


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

i believe ireland has hosted world cup games before as well


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## vitaming (Oct 5, 2011)

Not to repeat myself but I think Argentina don't offer rugby much in the way of expansion, it would just be a nice gesture to reward their patience and years of being snubbed by the establishment. By 2023, they'll be over a decade into the Rugby Championship which will mean most cities in the country are regularly seeing top class rugby tests.

Italy play their Six Nations home matches in Rome only and tend to keep other tests in Emilia-Romagna, a World Cup there would be great not only for traveling fans but again expanding the sport.

Ireland is a bad joke. Just the same old crap dressed up differently. Sorry if NZ got theirs and Ireland feel they can handle it etc, but they've already selfishly demanded they co-host their own pool matches from tournaments in nearby countries and opted out of a third opportunity because of construction. Back of the line for 30 years or so.


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## munster rugby (Aug 20, 2012)

vitaming said:


> Ireland is a bad joke. Just the same old crap dressed up differently. Sorry if NZ got theirs and Ireland feel they can handle it etc, but they've already selfishly demanded they co-host their own pool matches from tournaments in nearby countries and opted out of a third opportunity because of construction. Back of the line for 30 years or so.


do you even know what stadia Ireland have? Just because we have a small population you think we cant handle haahaa you make me laugh!!
Yes we hosted some pool games in 1991 and 1999 but that is not the same as hosting the full competition
Oh and the IRB headquarters are in dublin..


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## munster rugby (Aug 20, 2012)

Harry1990 said:


> with and Ireland bid you mean a joint bid by both republic and northern ireland, id imagine so as they play as a combined team, one problem is the facilities in the republic are so much more modern to northern ireland and i can only think of 2 stadiums reasonably large in N.Ireland to host games Ravenhill (think ulster player here) and windsor park


yes you are right republic and n.ireland are 1 in rugby, Ravenhill is to be be developed into an 18200 capacity, windsor park is being developed into 18000 all seater stadium and G.A.A Casement park in Belfast is being redeveloped into 40000 all seater stadium. These developments all being completed in late 2015


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

i did hear about the new or redevolped windsor park, cant believe its going to be thats small the population of northern ireland is what 2/ 2.5 million surely could go for at least 35 k, or a new national stadium for both rugby and football would be a better idea surely


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## munster rugby (Aug 20, 2012)

yes they were going to build a new 20,000 seater stadium but decided to divide the money between windsor, ravenhill and casement park.
I think this makes more sense as i cant see ulster fans leaving ravenhill and soccer fans are happy with windsor


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## 1772 (Aug 18, 2009)

'Merica


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## carnifex2005 (May 12, 2010)

Canada could easily host one. All of the CFL stadiums can easily fit a regulation rugby pitch and Canada has a decent rugby team, so it isn't like they would embarrass themselves hosting.


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## Dimethyltryptamine (Aug 22, 2009)

^^results of last years RWC say otherwise... iirc they didn't make it beyond the group stage.


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## carnifex2005 (May 12, 2010)

Dimethyltryptamine said:


> ^^results of last years RWC say otherwise... iirc they didn't make it beyond the group stage.


I said they were decent, not great and last year they didn't embarrass themselves. Behind Argentina, they're the best rugby team in the Americas.


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## Lydon (Sep 7, 2007)

munster rugby said:


> they hosted rugby world cup in 1995, soccer world cup in 2010 and they just hosted the rugby world junior championships..
> Ireland who have never hosted a major tournament and Argentina who have never hosted a rugby world cup, i think they should definitely get the nod ahead of SA


Ireland is a tiny highly-indebted nation. Argentina, perhaps, but there's no reason why both Argentina and South Africa can't host in the near future. South Africa has the stadiums, the funds, definitely has the support and it's one of the world's top rugby nations. It makes sense really.


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## Dimethyltryptamine (Aug 22, 2009)

yeah SA would make a good host. Their new stadia are awesome. And has already been 17 years since it hosted them.


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## Phildrik (Aug 10, 2012)

Harry1990 said:


> i think the IRB shouldnt go back to any of the following countries after 2015 for at least 20 years (England, France, South Africa, New Zealand and Australia) to try and spread the game of rugby


Instead of going away totally from rugbys 'old' countries, maybe the IRB should propose a 1 in, 1 away system for the world cup where every second cup must be held in a new market (eg. SA > Canada > Ire > Argentina). They will then get to spread the game to new markets while also keeping it strong in existing countries


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## munster rugby (Aug 20, 2012)

Lydon said:


> Ireland is a tiny highly-indebted nation. Argentina, perhaps, but there's no reason why both Argentina and South Africa can't host in the near future. South Africa has the stadiums, the funds, definitely has the support and it's one of the world's top rugby nations. It makes sense really.


Ireland is the same size as New Zealand who just hosted one, Also we have stadia to host a rugby world cup. Argentina are far from rich UAR who faced bankruptcy and SA will have to wait awhile :tongue3:


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## likasz (Sep 4, 2008)

If WC2019 will be a disaster in terms of attendance and organization so I believe that the IRB will return to a country where rugby is really really popular. It might be Argentina or Italy. 

But If WC2019 will works really fine so they could try with countries like Canda, USA or Portugal.

Spain and Germany are not a good idea.


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## prahovaploiesti (May 28, 2011)

Romania...maybe.
The thing is that the National Arena isn't fit for rugby, the pitch is too small.


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## 1772 (Aug 18, 2009)

Why is no-one saying the US? 
In therms of capacity, US stadia and cities are superior.


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## Lydon (Sep 7, 2007)

1772 said:


> Why is no-one saying the US?
> In therms of capacity, US stadia and cities are superior.


In terms of ability to play rugby, support and arguably stadia they're inferior.


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## vitaming (Oct 5, 2011)

likasz said:


> If WC2019 will be a disaster in terms of attendance and organization so I believe that the IRB will return to a country where rugby is really really popular. It might be Argentina or Italy.
> 
> But If WC2019 will works really fine so they could try with countries like Canda, USA or Portugal.
> 
> Spain and Germany are not a good idea.


Spain-Portugal has been mentioned here and there. But after Japan in 2023, they're probably destined to return to a sure 'banker' like South Africa.


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## munster rugby (Aug 20, 2012)

likasz said:


> If WC2019 will be a disaster in terms of attendance and organization so I believe that the IRB will return to a country where rugby is really really popular. It might be Argentina or Italy.
> 
> But If WC2019 will works really fine so they could try with countries like Canda, USA or Portugal.
> 
> Spain and Germany are not a good idea.


really really popular in Argentina and Italy? most of Argentina's first team players go to Europe to play as club rugby in Argentina is amateur and Italy is much the same their club rugby is poor their two teams in pro 12 league struggle so i wouldnt say your gauranteed a great world cup in these countries.
Portugal hosting a rugby world cup would be a complete flop :bash:


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## munster rugby (Aug 20, 2012)

Lydon said:


> In terms of ability to play rugby, support and arguably stadia they're inferior.


I don't think lack of stadia are stopping them anyway they could host rugby and soccer world cups at the same time no worries...


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## jpgjohnnyg (Nov 4, 2011)

''Ireland is a tiny highly-indebted nation'
Big deal Lydon the tournament is 11 years away a lot can change sure 11 years ago Ireland had the highest GDP/population in the world. If we all had such negativity then the football world cup wouldnt have gone near South Africa but it did and guess what it was a success!
The GAA in the last few days have thrown their support behind a bid in 2023 and will vote next year to lend 6 grounds to the IRFU.
You are right about Ireland being a small country and I can only see that as a massive plus point as the fans wont have far to travel to watch their team progress through the tournament. 
The grounds to be used wont be bad either.
Existing rugby grounds
The new 55000 Aviva
A redeveloped 18000 Ravenhill (funding in place work to start next year)
Thomond 26000 - options to develop the ends
RDS - The old stand is to be demolished and replaced next year keeping capacity around 25000
The GAA are to offer Croke park, Casement, Pairc ui Chaoimh, Fitzgerald, Pearse and gaelic grounds.
Croke park is good to go and would host the final with capcity 83000 or 75000 all seater
Casement park in Belfast is to be redeveloped into a 40000 seater stadium 75 million pounds funding from the GAA and NI government secured
PUC Cork is to be rebuilt into a 40000 seater stadium. The money is available to begin phase 1 next year
Gaelic Grounds Limerick had 3 sides rebuilt a few years ago, although the stadium is still very basic and would need improvements, capacuty 50000, 35000 of which is seating.
Pearse Stadium in Galway and Fitzgerald stadium Killarney have big capacities 35000 and 45000 but both need serious modernising thats were the government come in and hopefully they will have the sense to realise that small costs for infrastructure improvement will be greatly rewarded with a massive windfall the tournament would bring for our economy!


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## jpgjohnnyg (Nov 4, 2011)

More info here about the Irish bid

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056730422


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## munster rugby (Aug 20, 2012)

jpgjohnnyg said:


> ''Ireland is a tiny highly-indebted nation'
> Big deal Lydon the tournament is 11 years away a lot can change sure 11 years ago Ireland had the highest GDP/population in the world. If we all had such negativity then the football world cup wouldnt have gone near South Africa but it did and guess what it was a success!
> The GAA in the last few days have thrown their support behind a bid in 2023 and will vote next year to lend 6 grounds to the IRFU.
> You are right about Ireland being a small country and I can only see that as a massive plus point as the fans wont have far to travel to watch their team progress through the tournament.
> ...


I agree c'mon the Irish!!! :cheers:


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## BringMe (May 7, 2011)

I think the world cup should go back to south america in 2023

Probably in Argentina - Uruguay,Chile,Colombia


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## munster rugby (Aug 20, 2012)

BringMe said:


> I think the world cup should go back to south america in 2023
> 
> Probably in Argentina - Uruguay,Chile,Colombia


why in the name of god would uruguay, chile or colombia want to host a rugby world cup?? they cant even play rugby haha the stadiums would be empty. 
Argentina would have a chance of hosting it


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## 1772 (Aug 18, 2009)

Lydon said:


> In terms of ability to play rugby, support and arguably stadia they're inferior.


Skills and Support was told to be bad in the FIFA World Cup 1994 and voila; the US got to the Round of 16 (then beaten by the coming-winners; Brazil). It also holds the record of best attendance. Still today. 
If something cool comes to America, people will come, trust me. 

Please do tell what other country can provide 10+ top notch stadiums with 60K+ capacity?


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## GaFe (Nov 7, 2007)

BringMe said:


> I think the world cup should go back to south america in 2023
> 
> Probably in Argentina - Uruguay,Chile,Colombia





*w.t.f.*


​


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## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

1772 said:


> Why is no-one saying the US?
> In therms of capacity, US stadia and cities are superior.



Post 245


> Apparently the IRB has asked USA Rugby to consider bidding for the 2023 World Cup. Canada is also mentioned as a potential joint bid partner.
> 
> http://www.universalsports.com/news-...id=569413.html
> http://www.universalsports.com/news-...id=500280.html
> ...


Rugby 7's is a massive shot in arm for Rugby Union. Many countries around the world fund sports in direct relation to their Olympic Status.
I seriously believe that Rugby 7's will be a massive hit at the Olympics with new fans exposed to a quick moving and short length series of Games that has it's own mature festival atmosphere, Spend the afternoon watching 4/5 games and drinking beer.
America has the athletes to quickely adapt to 7's, Full 15's would take much longer to rise to the top tier.

Americans and Canadians may not come out to support a Rugby World Cup like the Americans did for the FIFA WC in '94 but In the right City more than 50 000 would want to come out to see the likes of NZ play Australia or South Africa.


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## Lydon (Sep 7, 2007)

jpgjohnnyg said:


> ''Ireland is a tiny highly-indebted nation'
> Big deal Lydon the tournament is 11 years away a lot can change sure 11 years ago Ireland had the highest GDP/population in the world. If we all had such negativity then the football world cup wouldnt have gone near South Africa but it did and guess what it was a success!
> The GAA in the last few days have thrown their support behind a bid in 2023 and will vote next year to lend 6 grounds to the IRFU.
> You are right about Ireland being a small country and I can only see that as a massive plus point as the fans wont have far to travel to watch their team progress through the tournament.


Don't get me wrong...I would love to see Ireland host it in the near future, but I am of the opinion that South Africa should host it again in the early 2020's. SA already has the stadiums (14 with a capacity over 40 000) and those that we would use would require little to no upgrades. As I previously mentioned, it's pretty much guaranteed that we'd sell out most, if not all matches due to the support rugby has here, and the national team has a good chance of progressing through the competition as well...hence me saying it's a bit of a no-brainer.



1772 said:


> Skills and Support was told to be bad in the FIFA World Cup 1994 and voila; the US got to the Round of 16 (then beaten by the coming-winners; Brazil). It also holds the record of best attendance. Still today.
> If something cool comes to America, people will come, trust me.
> 
> Please do tell what other country can provide 10+ top notch stadiums with 60K+ capacity?


But you're ignoring the fact that the FIFA World Cup is the world's largest sporting tournament by a mile, and that the sport is far more widely known and played than rugby currently is. Thus you can't use the attendance figures of FIFA World Cup to extrapolate the projected attendance figures of the RWC.

South Africa may not have over 10 stadiums with over 60k capacities, but the stadiums we do have and would use are in many cases designed for rugby, have proven track records in terms of attendance figures for the sport, and everything else I mentioned in my reply to jpgjohnnyg above.


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## flierfy (Mar 4, 2008)

1772 said:


> Please do tell what other country can provide 10+ top notch stadiums with 60K+ capacity?


A Rugby World Cup doesn't require 10 60'000 seater spread over one half of a continent. It is more desirable to stage the games in stadiums ranging from 15'000 to 80'000 but all within 1 flight hour of each other.


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## Andy-i (Nov 25, 2009)

prahovaploiesti said:


> Romania...maybe.
> The thing is that the National Arena isn't fit for rugby, the pitch is too small.


Doesn't matter, the RWC2015 in England will use more Football stadiums than Rugby Stadiums

Those Football stadiums like Old Trafford and St James park will feature very small in goal areas, much more a Rugby League pitch than a union one!


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## Gadiri (Oct 30, 2009)

BringMe said:


> I think the world cup should go back to south america in 2023
> 
> Probably in Argentina - Uruguay,Chile,Colombia


I think it's time for South America, after Europe, Africa, Asia & Oceania. 

Argentina should host it.

I remember argentinans fans passion in WC 2007. I went to France-Argentina, Argentina-South Africa and others games. I never see a such passion in a rugby stadium (even with Perpignan fans). 

" Ole Ole Ole Ole Ole Ole Ola, Ole Ole Ole cadia dias te quiero mas ..."


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## MS20 (Apr 12, 2009)

Rugby WC in Ireland does nothing for the game. South Africa for a strong WC, and USA as a new frontier (and probably a well hosted WC with strong attendance and interest).


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

how anyone says that italy and argentina dont deserve a world cup before South Africa i cant understand, peoples opinion but i think italy as they would have been in 6 nations for 23 or 27 years by that time plus being a decent rugby team in late 80's and 90's to getaccepted into the 6 nations in the first place , Italy is a few hours top from the rugby heartlands in England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland and the Southern hempsires giants always travel

and argentina by 2023 or 2027 will have been in the Rugby Championship around 10-15 years, and it has to go to South America to spread the game, especially with the 7's in the olympic games, i think rugby could get a real surge in popularity all over the world, and tbh alot more funding in countries like USA, Canada, Brazil, Russia

i think common sense should be after 2027 have the next host a established nation and the following host a devloping rugby nation and rotate them like that, otherwise it will get boring having, England france, south africa, and australia host every tournament


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## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

I have no thirst for Australia to host for the next 2 decades. Would much rather see next few World Cups outside the Antipodes and the "Home Nations" plus France. 
South Africa being the only Rugby power I have no problem with the WC going back to. Otherwise I'm really looking forward to Japan 2019 and hopefully future WC's in Argentina, Italy, USA, Canada and maybe a joint WC between Romania, Russia and Georgia.


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## Leedsrule (Apr 6, 2010)

Lets be honest, and Celtic bid would include the millennium stadium, even if it didn't include wales. So you may as well include them entirely. I think a 3 country bid would be ok for rugby because of the fact more than 1 country usually hosts it anyway, like when England and France both used a stadium in wales when really they could have held it on their own.

Anyway, I don't think the Celts will get it because England has held it so soon and geographically we are close (NOT the same country, but close). My personal favourites are South Africa, Italy, or maybe Spain or the USA. But South Africa and Italy will be favourites, surely?

*South Africa*

FNB Stadium, Johannesburg (94,000)
















Moses Mabhida Stadium, Durban (70,000)
















Ellis Park, Johannesburg (62,000)
















Cape Town Stadium, Cape Town (55,000)
















Loftus Versfeld, Tshwane (51,000)
















Nelson Mandela Stadium, Port Elizabeth (48,500)
















Vodacom Park, Bloemfontein (48,000)
















Mbombela Stadium, Nelspruit (43,500)
















Royal Bafokeng Stadium, Phokeng (42,000)
















Olympia Park Stadium, Rustenburg (30,500)









Athlone Stadium, Cape Town (30,000)
















Moruleng Stadium, Moruleng (20,000)
















Estádio do Zimpeto, Maputo, Mozambique (42,000)


















*Italy*

Stadio Giuseppe Meazza, Milan (80,000)
















Stadio Olimpico, Rome (72,600)
















Stadio San Paolo, Napoli (Renovated, ~70,000)
















Stadio San Nicola, Bari (58,000)
















Juventus Arena, Torino (41,000)
















Novoli Stadium, Florence (40,000)
















Stadio San Filippo, Messina (37,900)
















Stadio Luigi Ferraris, Genova (36,700)
















Evraz Place, Regina (33,000)
















Stadio Friuli, Udine (Renovated, 25,000)
















Stadio Flaminio, Rome (23,900)
















Stadio Alberto Braglia, Modena (21,100)
















Stadio Is Arenas, Sardegna (16,200)


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

Italy is my personal favourite for 2023 anyway as i think Italy should be rewarded for building themselves up from second tier nation into the 6 nations and hopefully in the next ten years starting to compete more and more. I also believe that alot of the Italian football clubs would be up for a major event in Italy as it would allow for renovations/new stadiums with better facilities as Italian football is falling behind the big three now (England/Spain/Germany) and with the Euro's in France could fall further behind.

I have nothing against South Africa as a country but i do think the big 5 rugby nations (NZ,Aus,SA,Eng and France) shouldn't host it for a good while after 2015.

An American bid is very very interesting thought, does an NFL pitch even accomadate a full rugby pitch ?


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## Leedsrule (Apr 6, 2010)

Harry1990 said:


> Italy is my personal favourite for 2023 anyway as i think Italy should be rewarded for building themselves up from second tier nation into the 6 nations and hopefully in the next ten years starting to compete more and more. I also believe that alot of the Italian football clubs would be up for a major event in Italy as it would allow for renovations/new stadiums with better facilities as Italian football is falling behind the big three now (England/Spain/Germany) and with the Euro's in France could fall further behind.
> 
> I have nothing against South Africa as a country but i do think the big 5 rugby nations (NZ,Aus,SA,Eng and France) shouldn't host it for a good while after 2015.
> 
> An American bid is very very interesting thought, does an NFL pitch even accomadate a full rugby pitch ?


The problem with Italy, stadium wise, is most of them are owned by the councils and most of them are still paying back the costs of 1990. Because, during the 1990's, stadium design changed a lot, it left relatively new stadia which were quickly outdated. Not many stadiums were build before then in the 70's and 80's, so when stadiums like San Nicola were built with rubbish seats and an athletics track, people didn't expect any less. But when stadiums like the riverside and Amsterdam arena were built in the 90's, they were very different, and the new stadiums built for the world cup were outdated and empty. And with the costs of them and everything, the rent for them went higher and the clubs wanted to relocate, but the councils wouldn't let them because then theyd lose out on all the money they spent on the stadium. Juventus had to buy their old stadium off the council before they could demolish it.

With Japan holding it in 2019 I have no problem with it going back to a big rugby nation, and the sooner SA hold it now after their stadium boost from 2010, the better.

And no, a rugby pitch wouldn't fit in most American football stadiums, which limits the stadiums they could put it in. I guess theyd use a lot of the newer MLS stadiums, a few of the ones with athletics tracks perhaps (but theres not many of them) and build a few new ones.


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## Leedsrule (Apr 6, 2010)

I think there's a decent chance Russia will host too. I have a feeling they'll be the 4, the Celts (Who wont get it), Then the Russians, the Italians and the South Africans, who all might. 

*Russia*

Luzhniki Stadion, Moscow (Expanded to 81,000)
















New Zenit Stadium, St. Peterburg (64,000)
















Kazan Arena, Kazan (45,100)
















Stadion Spartak, Moscow (43,000)
















New Stadium, Volgograd (42,500)
















Fisht Olympic Stadium, Sochi (40,000)









Metallurg Stadion, Samara (35,300)
















Kuban Stadion, Krasnodar (31,600)
















Anzhi-Arena, Makhatchkala (31,000)
















Shinnik Stadion, Yaroslavl (22,900)
















Saturn Stadion, Ramenskoye (16,700)
















Metallurg Stadion, Lipetsk (14,300)


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## lwa (Aug 2, 2010)

Harry1990 said:


> not exactly sure on numbers of venuees/cities needed but here is my stab at a joint IRFU/ SRU bid. i have split it at 5 cities in Ireland (4 republic/1 northern ireland) and 4 in scotland and i have 14 venues in total.
> Ireland
> 
> Dublin
> ...



Can't see it being awarded to Russia - for all the iRB tried to put positive spin on it, the RWC Sevens in Moscow was a disaster. Until the Russian Union prove they can get decent crowds to their own internationals (currently playing in front of banks of empty seats in Sochi), there is no way they should be considered ahead of, say, Italy. Who can regularly pull in 70-80,000 now.

Argentina or Italy for me. I fully expect South Africa to be in mix too (especially if Japan 2019 is looking concerning when the decision is made) as a safe option, but honestly don't think either of the other options is that risky.


Even as a scot, I don't want it awarded to a 'Celtic' bid, in any form. Would obviously be good for Celtic rugby, but it's not what the game as a whole needs at the moment.


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## Leedsrule (Apr 6, 2010)

Pitch at celtic park (not sure about hearts but would assume the same) would be big enough, a rugby pitch without the try zone is shorter than a football pitch, so you could just have a reduced try zone. This will happen a lot in 2015. The try zones don't need to be as massive as they are at murrayfield 

I think Argentina would need to build a few stadiums to hold it and they may not have the football or rugby teams who could fill them after. Italy is risky financially imo, cus they wouldn't spend nearly as much money on it as, say, Russia would. I still think with the stadiums in south Africa it would be pretty stupid not to pick them soon. 

I really want a celtic euro's bid, but im not that keen on a celtic rwc bid, as I probably would go to Scotland or Ireland to watch rugby matches unless it was cheap.


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## flierfy (Mar 4, 2008)

Leedsrule said:


> Pitch at celtic park (not sure about hearts but would assume the same) would be big enough, a rugby pitch without the try zone is shorter than a football pitch, so you could just have a reduced try zone. This will happen a lot in 2015. The try zones don't need to be as massive as they are at murrayfield


Try zone?? What is that?


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## Leedsrule (Apr 6, 2010)

flierfy said:


> Try zone?? What is that?


I don't know what its proper name is. The goal area. Behind the try line and the post things. I just posted on another thread about it, it should be over 10m but only "where practicable" so if you have a shorter try area it would be fine. I think any stadium that can fit in a full UEFA standard football pitch that isn't right next to the stands should be fine fitting a rugby pitch.


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## lwa (Aug 2, 2010)

Leedsrule said:


> Pitch at celtic park (not sure about hearts but would assume the same) would be big enough, *a rugby pitch without the try zone is shorter than a football pitch,* so you could just have a reduced try zone. This will happen a lot in 2015. The try zones don't need to be as massive as they are at murrayfield
> 
> I think Argentina would need to build a few stadiums to hold it and they may not have the football or rugby teams who could fill them after. Italy is risky financially imo, cus they wouldn't spend nearly as much money on it as, say, Russia would. I still think with the stadiums in south Africa it would be pretty stupid not to pick them soon.
> 
> I really want a celtic euro's bid, but im not that keen on a celtic rwc bid, as I probably would go to Scotland or Ireland to watch rugby matches unless it was cheap.


It's only recently that FIFA have decided the correct size for a fitba pitch is 105x68m. Tynecastle, being much older than that decision, has one of the smallest pitches in Scotland at 100x64m, and with no run-off area's (which aren't optional in rugby - think it's minimum of 2m round the full pitch required)

So the pitch at Tynecastle is the same length as a full size rugby field of play (not counting in goal areas), but at least 6m narrower (probably more, once run-offs are taken into account).

Then there are the in goal areas, which whilst they don't need to be the full 22m they are at Murrayfield, they aren't optional and should be "where practicable". Some clubs (in England especially - Wasps spring to mind) get away with less, but there is no way the iRB would let a RWC match take place with less than the full 10m. 

Of course, there are no actual minimums for the size of a rugby pitch*, so they could play on a pitch 70m long.. But it's far from ideal, and since RWC's see all pitches marked to the same dimensions (ie. if Tynecastle was used at 70m long, the field of play at Murrayfield, Croke Park etc. would also need to be 70m long)

Even Welford Road isn't being used in 2015 because of the size of it's playing area.


*I wouldn't be surprised if there *are* minimums set out for RWC/other iRB tournaments.



As for your other points, a RWC isn't a FIFA WC. The iRB don't require every ground to be all seated with a roof over every seat. I would say both Italy and Argentina have plenty of suitable grounds that could be used and, more importantly, the ability to actually get crowds in them. Sadly, only Georgia and Romania look capable of doing that in eastern europe, and neither strikes me as being particularly viable hosts.


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## Leedsrule (Apr 6, 2010)

Ok, fair enough. Did they not leave a bit more space when refurbishing the 3 stands at tynecastle? I still think most football stadiums would fit a rugby pitch. Remember, in 2015, most of the stadiums used will be football stadiums, and a lot will have reduced try areas. Also, in football the front row will walways be 7.5m from the pitch at the end for UEFA matches, what is the minimum in rugby?

What about a Romania Ukraine rwc bid? Both have decent rugby teams (top 40 iirc) and with the stadiums they have it would definately be possible?


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## lwa (Aug 2, 2010)

Leedsrule said:


> Ok, fair enough. Did they not leave a bit more space when refurbishing the 3 stands at tynecastle? I still think most football stadiums would fit a rugby pitch. Remember, in 2015, most of the stadiums used will be football stadiums, and a lot will have reduced try areas. Also, in football the front row will walways be 7.5m from the pitch at the end for UEFA matches, what is the minimum in rugby?
> 
> What about a Romania Ukraine rwc bid? Both have decent rugby teams (top 40 iirc) and with the stadiums they have it would definately be possible?


Most modern stadiums (ie. those that actualy comply with the 7.5m, and don't need to shut off rows of seats) will I'm sure. Not 100% sure, but all I've ever seen for rugby is the 2m I mentioned before (which, I think, is supposed to be grass/artificial turf). I believe the playing area was increased slightly, but not enough (even to meet Champions League regulations)


Don't know much of Ukrainian rugby (suspect they probably have the grounds), but there is a pretty big gulf between them and Romania (who almost beat Scotland at RWC'11, and would be a match for any 6 Nations side in Bucharest)

Sadly, rugby has had problems playing at decent grounds in Romania; Timisoara (domestic champions) keep getting requests to play at the council owned football stadium knocked back, U Cluj have had hostility from the football team they share Cluj Arena with (though the council have backed them thus far), and the national team attempted to play at the same venue against Georgia last season, but the Georgians objected and had the game shifted back to Arcul du Triomphe.

I hear they are keen to spread games much more widely this coming season, so we will see what sort of appetite there is for the game then 

Too small to host it on their own though, and can't see Ukraine (or any other neighbours) working in the near future though


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## alejo25 (Nov 17, 2006)

I'd love Japan to host this event. Nice stadiums, nice people and nice landscapes. And they love the game.


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## Leedsrule (Apr 6, 2010)

alejo25 said:


> I'd love Japan to host this event. Nice stadiums, nice people and nice landscapes. And they love the game.


I don't think Japan will get the 2023 RWC unfortunately. I just cant see it happening hno:


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

alejo25 said:


> I'd love Japan to host this event. Nice stadiums, nice people and nice landscapes. And they love the game.


they are hosting the 2019 RWC so you dont have long to wait


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## Andy-i (Nov 25, 2009)

lwa said:


> It's only recently that FIFA have decided the correct size for a fitba pitch is 105x68m. Tynecastle, being much older than that decision, has one of the smallest pitches in Scotland at 100x64m, and with no run-off area's (which aren't optional in rugby - think it's minimum of 2m round the full pitch required)
> 
> So the pitch at Tynecastle is the same length as a full size rugby field of play (not counting in goal areas), but at least 6m narrower (probably more, once run-offs are taken into account).
> 
> ...


There will be plenty of grounds used in RWC2015 with smaller in goal areas than 10M. 

If the IRB were that bothered they shouldn't of agreed to the use of Football grounds.


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## vitaming (Oct 5, 2011)

2007 had plenty of short in-goals as well.


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## ChesterCopperpot (May 24, 2012)

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/nov/18/ireland-rugby-union-2023-world-cup-bid



> Ireland will consider launching a bid for the 2023 rugby union World Cup this week, the country's sports minister said on Monday, hoping a politically-symbolic proposal will win the right to host the event for the first time.
> 
> The ambitious effort would see games played on both sides of the Irish border – as, unlike football, the national team is an all-Ireland selection – and would represent another major step since the 1998 peace agreement mostly ended three decades of violence in Northern Ireland.
> 
> ...


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

If they are to bid i hope its just a joint Republic/Northern Ireland as i think it will have the most chance of winning. as they share the same union it would be so much easier to organise that having the IRFU,WRU,SRFU sitting around a table debating what venues would be used. With the improvements to stadiums in Belfast as well as some of the Gallic Football stadiums this could be a great tournament, NZ 2011 was great and the is no reason Ireland 2023 wont be as good or better.

Ireland is easily reached for fans from the Uk and France, and there is a reasonably large ex pat community is the UK from NZ/Aus/SA and those countries usually bring fans as well. Countries like the US would be well supported in Ireland too with family histories etc.

personally though if there is still the Republic/Northern Ireland by that time than Belfast should host the opening match and Dublin the final or give all the semi finals to Belfast or something along those lines


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

Makes me sad the old Landsowne Road isnt there anymore such memories of the old ground crying as ten year old in 2001 when our grandslam dreams were dashed after the delayed game due to foot and mouth.

Celebrating in 2003 as England finally won a grandslam game after 99,00,01,02 all cocked up. Aviva was great in 2011 despite another failed grand slam haha but just not the same atmosphere as the old landsowne road. Dublin really is an amazing city to watch sport in the people make you feel so welcome a world cup would be amazing in Ireland


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

What are the rules for hosting RWC matches if there are any for example is standing allowed or does it have to be all seater ?


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## lwa (Aug 2, 2010)

Harry1990 said:


> If they are to bid i hope its just a joint Republic/Northern Ireland as i think it will have the most chance of winning. as they share the same union it would be so much easier to organise that having the IRFU,WRU,SRFU sitting around a table debating what venues would be used. With the improvements to stadiums in Belfast as well as some of the Gallic Football stadiums this could be a great tournament, NZ 2011 was great and the is no reason Ireland 2023 wont be as good or better.
> 
> Ireland is easily reached for fans from the Uk and France, and there is a reasonably large ex pat community is the UK from NZ/Aus/SA and those countries usually bring fans as well. Countries like the US would be well supported in Ireland too with family histories etc.
> 
> personally though if there is still the Republic/Northern Ireland by that time than Belfast should host the opening match and Dublin the final or give all the semi finals to Belfast or something along those lines


No such thing as republic/north in rugby - it's an All-Ireland team, governing body et all. Obviously the RoI government aren't going to fund developments in the north (and vice versa), but very much doubt we'd ever see a RoI only bid.

Can't see any big games (opening, semi-final etc) in Belfast though. 18,000 at Ravenhill or Windsor Park isn't nearly big enough. Even Casement is probably on the small side for such fixtures.



Harry1990 said:


> What are the rules for hosting RWC matches if there are any for example is standing allowed or does it have to be all seater ?


Never seen any requirments, but certainly doesn't have to be all seater. Kingsholm and Sandy Park (both 2015 venues) have terraces; as did the majority of venues in 2011.

Sure there will be requirements regarding player facilities, press facilities etc, but never seen anything about them.


Ireland would host a good RWC I'm sure, however they have hosted games in '91, '99 and had been awarded games in '07 (which they subsequently lost to Scotland). The next european RWC should be held Italy IMO, and the only other country that should be ahead of them in my book is Argentina.


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

lwa said:


> No such thing as republic/north in rugby - it's an All-Ireland team, governing body et all. Obviously the RoI government aren't going to fund developments in the north (and vice versa), but very much doubt we'd ever see a RoI only bid.
> 
> Can't see any big games (opening, semi-final etc) in Belfast though. 18,000 at Ravenhill or Windsor Park isn't nearly big enough. Even Casement is probably on the small side for such fixtures.
> 
> ...


i know they are a joint team in playing terms my point was it would have to be funded by two countries Republic and Northern Ireland (i think they get a set budget from the UK government in there devolved parliament so id imagine it would come out of that budget )

My preferance has always been Italy than Argentina as i think after Southern Hemisphere WC in 2019 should go back north again for 2023 than to a Southern Hemisphere team in 2027


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## lwa (Aug 2, 2010)

Harry1990 said:


> i know they are a joint team in playing terms my point was it would have to be funded by two countries Republic and Northern Ireland (i think they get a set budget from the UK government in there devolved parliament so id imagine it would come out of that budget )
> 
> My preferance has always been Italy than Argentina as i think after Southern Hemisphere WC in 2019 should go back north again for 2023 than to a Southern Hemisphere team in 2027



Should be fairly simple though - NI assembly funds any projects in the North (they are already funding redevelopment of their 3 "national" stadiums; Windsor Park, Ravenhill and Casement Park. Ravenhill will be finished soon. Can't see there being much beyond that from the north TBH), whilst the RoI government funds anything needed south of the border. Even the border isn't an issue - can travel freely between them.


And.. you are aware Japan is in the northern hemisphere, yeah?  I presume you meant it's timezone means it's much closer to the traditional southern hemisphere superpowers in NZ and Aus?

If we talk hemispheres, then by 2023 it will be 12 years since there was a southern hemisphere RWC. I can't see them going 16 years... Which probably makes it a straight fight between Argentina and South Africa (assuming they both bid.


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

Yer i know geographically in north but rugby wise id say its more southern hemisphere like they play in the 4/5nations with Tonga, samoa, Fiji etc 

what other big cities are in N.Ireland apart from Belfast ?


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## jpgjohnnyg (Nov 4, 2011)

Casement and Ravenhill in Belfast are both planned for the bid. The other big city in Northern Ireland, Derry doesnt have any suitable stadium to realistically be used.
The venues rumored to be used are

Dublin - Croke, Aviva, RDS
Belfast - Casement, Ravenhill
Limerick - Thomond, Gaelic grounds
Galway - Pearse
Cork - Pairc Ui Chaoimh
Killarney - Fitzgerald
and maybe McHale in Mayo


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## Wild Goose (Nov 23, 2013)

Harry1990 said:


> Yer i know geographically in north but rugby wise id say its more southern hemisphere like they play in the 4/5nations with Tonga, samoa, Fiji etc
> 
> what other big cities are in N.Ireland apart from Belfast ?


Derry would probably be the only other option for hosting in Northern Ireland. The GAA stadium there (Celtic Park) would probably be the obvious choice of stadium but i believe that the city's soccer stadium the Brandywell is getting funding as part of the Casemont/Ravenhill/Windsor thing so maybe there is scope there?

Also if they are going for a political statement regarding peace in the north, Derry would have to be included given it's history you would feel.



jpgjohnnyg said:


> Casement and Ravenhill in Belfast are both planned for the bid. The other big city in Northern Ireland, Derry doesnt have any suitable stadium to realistically be used.
> The venues rumored to be used are
> 
> Dublin - Croke, Aviva, RDS
> ...


The final list will probably be similar to what you have there but I would just wonder would Castlebar or Killarney be big enough towns to host the influx of fans? Killarney would probably be fine as it's a major tourist spot already but don't know about Castlebar. 

Can't see both Thomond and the Gaelic grounds used in Limerick. Would have to be thomond as it is a proper rugby stadium.

Would think that Galway would definitely be part of any bid but I think that a new stadium there might be a better bet. Pearse Stadium isn't that great and is in a poor location in the city. The showgrounds and terryland park the other main stadia in the city are better located but too small. Out of the three I would pick the Showgrounds however it is also primarily a greyhound racing stadium.


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## EdooGdl (Aug 28, 2009)

*This would be My Rugby World Cup bid proposal in Argentina
[/SIZE]*[/B]

Estadio Unico La Plata 


















Estadio Mario Alberto Kempes


















Estadio Brigadier General Estanislao López


















Estadio Malvinas Argentinas


















Estadio Bicentenario de San Juan


















Estadio Bicentenario de Catamarca

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/1548/51327142.jpg









Estadio Padre Ernesto Martearena


















Estadio José Amalfitani


















Estadio Gigante de Arroyito


















Estadio José María Minella

















*
SUB VENUES*

Estadio Germán Becker (Chile)

















Estadio Charrua (Uruguay)















[/QUOTE]


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## TEBC (Dec 26, 2004)

Argentina should host it in 2027 or 2031 as preparation or after FIFA 2030 WC


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2013)

Like the FIFA WC proposal, might an Argentine RWC proposal include Montevideo? I know there is history of the game in Uruguay. 

I also like the idea of having one after another. FIFA 2030/IRB 2031 would allow for concentration of resources to build/refurbish stadiums to suit the needs of both tournaments. 

Since there are no specific rugby venues in Argentina like with the England WC, they could even use exactly the same stadiums for each tournament.


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## Knitemplar (Aug 16, 2008)

Ashgabat, Turkmenistan!!


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## CharlieP (Sep 12, 2002)

*Ireland Rugby World Cup 2023 bid moves a step closer*

"The prospect of a bid by Ireland to host the 2023 Rugby World Cup has moved a step closer with the setting up of a cross-border working group..."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25846728


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

Be interesting to see how they split this bid up if they proceed and how funding will be split between the two governments as if expected most of the venues are from the south than northern Ireland shouldn't have to fund 50 %. I think 2 cities from Northern Ireland (Belfast and Derry ) and 5/6 cities from the Republic would make for an interesting proposal. If they are to do this i hope it is just kept to the Island of Ireland and not hosting games at Murrayfield and Cardiff as we know the welsh love getting games as think apart from 95,03,11 they have hosted games at every tournament.


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## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

5portsF4n said:


> ...I know there is history of the game in Uruguay.


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## Andy-i (Nov 25, 2009)

Harry1990 said:


> Be interesting to see how they split this bid up if they proceed and how funding will be split between the two governments as if expected most of the venues are from the south than northern Ireland shouldn't have to fund 50 %. I think 2 cities from Northern Ireland (Belfast and Derry ) and 5/6 cities from the Republic would make for an interesting proposal. If they are to do this i hope it is just kept to the Island of Ireland and not hosting games at Murrayfield and Cardiff as we know the welsh love getting games as think apart from 95,03,11 they have hosted games at every tournament.


They didn't host any in 1987 either but everytime the RWC has been hosted in Europe there have been games in Cardiff and will be again in 2015.

1991 3 pool games and the 3rd place playoff game
1999 4 pool games, 1 QF, final and the 3rd place playoff game
2007 3 pool games and a QF
2015 6 pool games and 2 QF's

23 games!!!


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## sprite86 (Aug 16, 2009)

My take on a possible Ireland bid.

I wont bother with pictures as I'm sure they have already been posted.

New Zealand when they hosted it, built it around 3 cities and stadia, Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch(which was hit by the quake and Dunedin stepping up) 

All the big games were played in these venues with top class facilities and the capacity(just about) to host travelling supporters. Smaller games distributed to smaller towns with pretty dated grounds.

I'd imagine Ireland would be looking to do similar, but have the ability to deliver it at a higher quality and capacity for spectators.

Big games would be based around Dublin, Belfast and Cork; 
Dublin; Croke Park and Aviva with seating capacity of 75k and 51.5k, both ready to go. In Dublin, there is no case for the RDS, with the amount of games that will be played in Dublin I'd question the public appetite for Tonga vs Canada at such a venue. Not only that, but matches could not be played in the Aviva and RDS on the same day. Tallaght stadium could be considered for a couple of game involving two of the minnows.

Belfast; Casement with all seater capacity of 40k, planning permission granted and funding committed. Ravenhill’s redevelopment is looking fantastic and with temporary seating could be 20k+. Windsor park won’t offer anything more than a few thousand extra seats for games that Ravenhill with some further development could produce. It would also have to be rented for the occasion which is a further cost and would take away from any rugby legacy that the IRB may wish to leave.

Pairc Ui Chaoimh with a fully seated redevelopment of 40 - 50k. This one has been in the works for a very long time. A RWC could give the GAA and the city council the impetus to actually get on with it.

Galway; Pearse stadium, would have to be upgraded to allow for more middling games. Pearce Stadium would need investment to be brought up to 30kish all seated. Pearse is the only ground that I would suggest needs a full or almost full rebuild, although it does have one reasonably modern stand.

Cork and Galway should be upgraded on the basis that they are for shared multisport use and upgraded to a high spec allowing Ireland to be part of a Celtic bid for a Uefa European Championships down the line. This will take a huge shift in government policy and the policy of the GAA. Joined up thinking is not something we do all that well in Ireland.

Limerick; there is certainly no need to use the Gaelic Grounds. Matches that may be played in a venue requiring 40k+ could not be even considered for such a substandard venue. Thomond Park offers far superior corporate and media facilities. Again if a legacy is to be left, it would be the development of a stand at the non-road end of TP and the venue having the ability of hosting 30k fully seated.

Thats seven quality grounds that would provide for most of the games. Certainly the ones involving the established 10 nations.

L’Derry/Derry, Kilkenny and Killarney would all as towns have the capacity to provide for smaller games. With their GAA grounds not nearly up to the standard required, but with temporary seating applied to terraces and media and corporate facilities added, they could work for lesser games. 
Derry as the North’s second city again, in my few would be the obvious place for a third venue from NI's perspective as I'm sure the executive will want more than just two stadia involved.

Killarney is already a tourist Mecca in Ireland, Kerry probably the most beautiful part of the country. 

Kilkenny hosted two wonderful Bruce Springsteen concerts this summer and is a two hour direct train to Dublin.

Obviously it would require investment to bring venues in these towns up to scratch, but not too much when you consider some of the grass banks that were used in 2011.
UEFA for past European Championships with 16 teams have typically required 8 venues. For 2016 with 24 teams they will have 10. I dont see the need in a RWC to go beyond that figure despite it having been done in the past. 

Thats 10 venues with and excellent geographic spread, based on existing ground that while would need some development, do have allot of what is already required.

If compared to RWC 2011 it looks like this

Croke Park 75k .............. Eden Park(Auckland) 60k
Pairc ui Chaoimh 45k....... Wespak Stadium(Wellington) 40k
Casement Park 40k......... Lancaster Park(Christchurch, destroyed, never used) 40k
Aviva Stadium 51.5k............... Waikato Stadium(Hamilton) 36k(including temp seating)
Thomond Park 30k ......... Forsyth Barr Stadium(Duniden) 30k
Pearce Stadium 30k ....... North harbour Stadium(Auckland) 30k(including temp seating)
Ravenhill 20-25k.............Rotorua International Stadium 36k(including temp seating and grass banks)


Derry, Kilkenny and Killarney could all offer far better than the equivalent in 2011.

Certainly the bid stacks up very well against 2011, blows it out of the water in my biased opinion. I'd imagine the IRB will want the RWC will return to Europe in 2023. However I believe that SA will be the main competition. They certainly have the infrastructure from the FIFA WC and would make wonderful hosts nearly 30 years on from 95. I do however believe that the IRB would wish the tournament to come back to Europe following Japan in 2019, which could go in our favour. South Africa time zone however is in line with Europe so for TV it would work for them.
Italy would be a risk. Rugby is quite slow in its development there IMO and they would have been expected to have moved further along in the last 15 years considering the investment in the game there. Following potential disaster of a WC in Japan I think the IRB will be reluctant to take on another big risk straight after.

Thoughts of Argentina or USA or Russia are simply non runners. Japan is a huge risk and I believe it will be a huge failure. There it is a game played by corporations, not people. The IRB know that there could be problems there and will not leave themselves open to a unreliable market like that again in the near future.


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## FAAN (Jun 24, 2011)

Nobody here considering a Brazilian bid for 2023?

*CBRu (Brazilian Rugby Confederation) wants 2023 Rugby World Cup in Brazil*



> In a interview, the president of CBRu, Sami Arap, speaked about his participation in IRB General Assembly, and claimed to have made ​​a Brazil's candidacy to host the Rugby World Cup 2023.
> 
> [...]
> 
> It's not the first time that Brazil is applying to host a Rugby World Cup. In 2009, Brazil launched its bid to host the Rugby World Cup Sevens 2013, but withdrew shortly after, making way for the victory of the Russians, with Moscow.


http://brasil2023.blogspot.com.br/

We already have the hosts:









(old pictures, most of them are ready or close to this now)


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## juan.83 (Jan 7, 2011)

I actually do not see brazil hosting the rugby world cup anytime soon, only for one reason there is no passion for this game in brazil


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## FAAN (Jun 24, 2011)

I don't see as a priority for us in hosting this tournament. But Rugby is the sport that is growing faster in Brazil, and with this world cup, Rugby would get more visibility in a huge market that is Brazil.


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## Lydon (Sep 7, 2007)

I think 2023 would be a bit soon.


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## 4Cardinal (Sep 2, 2012)

Versfeld Stadium (51,000): 1 Quarter Final and group games. 
Nelson Mandela bay stadium (49,000): Group games.
Vodacom Park Stadium (48,000): Group games.
Peter Mokaba Stadium (46,000): Group games.
Mbombela Stadium (43,000): Group games.
Athlone Stadium (30,000): Group games.
Olympia Park Stadium (30,000): Group games.
Moruleng Stadium (20,000): Group games.

Then in 2027, Argentina and Uruguay should build stadiums to hold the Rugby World Cup and the 2026


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## 4Cardinal (Sep 2, 2012)

Then after that it should go back to Europe. Maybe it should be 
2023 South Africa
2027 Italy
2031 Argentina and Uruguay
2035 Ireland and Scotland


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## Lydon (Sep 7, 2007)

4Cardinal said:


> Versfeld Stadium (51,000): 1 Quarter Final and group games.
> Nelson Mandela bay stadium (49,000): Group games.
> Vodacom Park Stadium (48,000): Group games.
> Peter Mokaba Stadium (46,000): Group games.
> ...


Huh? That's a strange list of stadiums you have there. There are a couple of stadiums that would never be used and you're missing out the big three - FNB Stadium, Johannesburg (94 700), Cape Town Stadium (55 000) and Moses Mabhida Stadium, Durban (55 000). Apart from that it'll likely be Loftus Versfeld, Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Free State Stadium and then perhaps Peter Mokaba Stadium, Ellis Park or a selection of a few others.


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## sprite86 (Aug 16, 2009)

Argentina did not sell out one Rugby Championship game last year. No chance they will be hosting a RWC in the near future. As for Brazil, that's a fantasy that doesn't even require comment.


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## FAAN (Jun 24, 2011)

sprite86 said:


> Argentina did not sell out one Rugby Championship game last year. No chance they will be hosting a RWC in the near future. *As for Brazil, that's a fantasy that doesn't even require comment.*


Really? Why? For most of the foreigners Rio 2016 was also a "fantasy" and look what happened...

But well, just like Lydon said I also think it's soon for Brazil (just considering the popularity level of the sport in the country that is still growing). I wouldn't see as impossible Brazil hosting this tournament in a near future.


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## Hereford Duncan (Sep 6, 2012)

Lydon said:


> Huh? That's a strange list of stadiums you have there. There are a couple of stadiums that would never be used and you're missing out the big three - FNB Stadium, Johannesburg (94 700), Cape Town Stadium (55 000) and Moses Mabhida Stadium, Durban (55 000). Apart from that it'll likely be Loftus Versfeld, Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Free State Stadium and then perhaps Peter Mokaba Stadium, Ellis Park or a selection of a few others.


Sorry, idk what happened there, I did write them but I must have deleted them by accident.
It should have been
FNB Stadium (94,000): Final, 2 Semi Finals and group games.
Ellis Park Stadium (64,000): 1 Quarter Final and group games. 
Cape Town Stadium (55,000): 3rd place playoff, 1 Quarter Final and group games. 
Moses Mabhida Stadium (54,000): 1 Quarter Final and group games. 
Versfeld Stadium (51,000): 1 Quarter Final and group games. 
Nelson Mandela bay stadium (49,000): Group games.
Vodacom Park Stadium (48,000): Group games.
Peter Mokaba Stadium (46,000): Group games.
Mbombela Stadium (43,000): Group games.
Athlone Stadium (30,000): Group games.
Olympia Park Stadium (30,000): Group games.
Moruleng Stadium (20,000): Group games.

I think Argentina could only hold a rugby world cup after a football world cup. but they might be awarded the 2030 football world cup with Uruguay to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the world cup. this is why SA should make the most of the stadiums they have now, before they become outdated, and they should apply to host as much as possible.


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## Ladiesman020 (Jan 3, 2014)

For me a future RWC should be in Italy, Russia, U.S & Canada joint and then it can start to go to country's that have already had it!


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

Looks like the Irish will definitly be bidding for 2023.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...ireland-bid-for-rugby-world-cup-30799026.html

An all-Ireland bid to stage the 2023 Rugby World Cup is to be officially unveiled.Officials from the Irish Rugby Football Union (IRFU) will tomorrow join representatives from the Northern Ireland Executive and Irish government to outline their ambition to jointly host the sport's showpiece event.

Both administrations have been engaged in a preliminary assessment exercise over the last ten months to weigh up the feasibility of submitting an official bid.

In February former Irish international star Hugo MacNeill was asked to chair the cross-border working group examining the issue.

It is understood an all -Ireland bid will be given the go ahead at an event in Armagh tomorrow morning.

As well as the traditional rugby stadiums such as the Aviva in Dublin, the Kingspan at Ravenhill in Belfast and Thomond Park in Limerick, a 2023 World Cup in Ireland would also hope to use a number of impressive Gaelic football venues, including the 82,300 capacity Croke Park in Dublin.

The Irish rugby team played their home matches in Croke Park between 2007 and 2010 while the Aviva stadium was being built on the site of the old Lansdowne Road ground.
advertisement

Next year's Rugby World Cup will be hosted by England with Japan hosting the event in 2019.Cross border bids to hold sporting events are not unheard of in Ireland and earlier this year cycling's Giro d'Italia held stages on both sides of the border.

In May, current Irish coach Joe Schmidt said an all-Ireland Rugby World Cup could replicate the success of his native New Zealand in its staging of the 2011 tournament.

"You have got the same population and the same kind of energy around sporting occasions and I think you have got the stadia," he said.


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

I hope this is not just 9/10 venues in Republic and Ravenhill slapped in for the sake of it. Think a 3 in the north and the rest spread around the republic should make a really good mix and hopefully all 6 traditional counties of Ireland get some games. The thing im actually most excited about is the fact that the Aviva would have to have have its name changed due to no commercial names being used, so hopefully rugby may get played in Lansdowne Road again however briefly.


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## kubica fan ireland (Oct 20, 2013)

Harry who are the 6 traditional counties you refer to I am missing the reference. On the point of Northern Ireland having 3 stadiums, where are they. Obviously Ravenhill should and will be included but what other stadiums are up to scratch. Casement Park is probably a no go due to the GAA afiliation and all that comes with it, and this is all assuming that the redevelopment gets completed. The only other grounds capable of hosting in the north is the redeveloped Windsor Park and perhaps Glentoran's new ground if it were to be built.


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## Harry1990 (Feb 5, 2010)

tbh not so sure of stadia in Republic of Ireland or Northern ireland tbh i have only been to Croke and both the old Lansdowne and the new Aviva so wouldnt want to pretend to be an expert at all. 

Was more thinking of they could use two stadiums in Belfast (possibly Ravenhill and i know Windsor Park is being upgraded) and possibly one in Derry too make 3 venues in Northern Ireland. Than possibly 3 in Dublin (Aviva, Croke and RDS), one in Limerick (Thormond Park), one in Galway and one in Cork. That seems like a decent spread of venues. Was also wondering if maybe a game or too might be played in Scotland or Wales for an aditional venue, especially with the close links realitibly speaking between Ireland and Glasgow/Edinburgh or Cardiff, i hope not but its something that may being considererd by the bid team.

And sorry just realised its four as in " Four provinces of Ireland" in Irelands Call should probably listen a bit better


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## jpgjohnnyg (Nov 4, 2011)

kubica fan ireland said:


> Harry who are the 6 traditional counties you refer to I am missing the reference. On the point of Northern Ireland having 3 stadiums, where are they. Obviously Ravenhill should and will be included but what other stadiums are up to scratch. Casement Park is probably a no go due to the GAA afiliation and all that comes with it, and this is all assuming that the redevelopment gets completed. The only other grounds capable of hosting in the north is the redeveloped Windsor Park and perhaps Glentoran's new ground if it were to be built.


The stadia have pretty much been finalised already

Ravenhill - which has been redeveloped.
RDS - Redeveloped plans already in motion.
Thomond
Aviva

The GAA have already agreed to lend the following grounds for the bid
Croke
Pairc UI Chaoimh - New 70 million euro stadrum to be built given the green light a couple of days ago.
Casement - New 80 million pound stadium to be built, delayed for the moment due to local resident objections
Fitzgerald killarney
Pearse galway
Gaelic grounds limerick.

The GAA are keen to get involved knowing full well the last 3grounds on that list will be partially upgraded with government money for the tournament.

Windsor park may also be an option as a reserve as it to is being redeveloped as we speak along with numerous other GAA grounds such as nowlan and McHale


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## jpgjohnnyg (Nov 4, 2011)

A quick glance at those grounds mentioned

Ravenhill, Belfast









RDS, Dublin









Thomond, Limerick









Aviva, Dublin


















Croke, Dublin









Pairc Ui Chaoimh, Cork


















Casement Park, Belfast









Fitzgerald, Killarney









Pearse, Galway









Gaelic grounds, Limerick









Possibly 

Windsor, Belfast









McHale, Castlebar









Nowlan, Killkenny









There is also Semple, Irelands second biggest stadium after Croke Park but its location will likely rule it out


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## Walbanger (Jan 10, 2006)

It really needs to return to South Africa for 2023, then the IRB can look at Italy, Argentina and something of a US-Canada joint bid.


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## Rascar (Mar 13, 2012)

Harry1990 said:


> Looks like the Irish will definitly be bidding for 2023.
> http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...ireland-bid-for-rugby-world-cup-30799026.html
> 
> An all-Ireland bid to stage the 2023 Rugby World Cup is to be officially unveiled.Officials from the Irish Rugby Football Union (IRFU) will tomorrow join representatives from the Northern Ireland Executive and Irish government to outline their ambition to jointly host the sport's showpiece event.


If they give two quarter finals to the Millennium Stadium I won't be accountable for my actions :bash:

I like the idea of an all Ireland world cup, as long as it stays in Ireland. I don't think there would be anything to worry about in terms of ticket sales and atmosphere, after the risk of hosting in Japan.

If it is to return to Europe so soon personally I would prefer Italy, which would be both breaking new ground and a "banker" in terms of ticket sales and TV time zone.


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## Red85 (Jan 23, 2007)

Rascar said:


> If they give two quarter finals to the Millennium Stadium I won't be accountable for my actions :bash:
> 
> I like the idea of an all Ireland world cup, as long as it stays in Ireland. I don't think there would be anything to worry about in terms of ticket sales and atmosphere, after the risk of hosting in Japan.
> 
> If it is to return to Europe so soon personally I would prefer Italy, which would be both breaking new ground and a "banker" in terms of ticket sales and TV time zone.


Seriously. Even if a RWC is in Argentina or Canada, Millennium stadium will be used.


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## Good Karma (Mar 22, 2011)

The Millenium stadium has lost a lot of its magic. It's not special anymore and I'm fed up of seeing it at regular world cups. I can just about accept it at the Enlgand World Cup due to the the relationship between the two nations but what the hell was it doing at France's World Cup?? Please No More Millenium Stadium!


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## Red85 (Jan 23, 2007)

Good Karma said:


> The Millenium stadium has lost a lot of its magic. It's not special anymore and I'm fed up of seeing it at regular world cups. I can just about accept it at the Enlgand World Cup due to the the relationship between the two nations but what the hell was it doing at France's World Cup?? Please No More Millenium Stadium!


Still, the relations between a optional Celtic bid and Wales ... 

aaah no.


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## sprite86 (Aug 16, 2009)

IRFU CEO Philip Browne has stated that Irelands bid will be Ireland only. No games outside the island.

Any world cup will focus around four grounds. 
Croke Park, Aviva Stadium in Dublin. 
Casement Park in Belfast 
Pairc Ui Chaoimh in Cork. 

First two are of a standard to host any international event. Casement Park will be 40k all seater when completed while Cork will have to be addressed further as their planned development is sub-standard.

These grounds would host the major pool matches and all knockout games. Semi's and Final in Croke Park

Backing these grounds up should be Thomond Park in Limerick and a development of Pearse Stadium in Galway. Both will need to offer 25k seats and TV and corporate facilities.

Ravenhill in Belfast is a fantastic development. With temporary seating installed on terraces and maybe the corners it could be close on 20k seated.

RDS Dublin. Plans are in development to bring this arena to 25k, with a small terrace. Whether three grounds in Dublin is required is up for debate. Though Croke Park is unlikely to be available in early September.

Grounds such as Nowlan Park in Kilkenny and Fitzgerald Stadium in Killarney could be kitted out to host some minor games between the minnow teams. Both in wonderful towns capable of hosting tourists.

8-10 Grounds, similar to a European Football Championships. European Market in a sports mad country. Home of the IRB. Would be wonderful.


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## lwa (Aug 2, 2010)

Bidding process was announced the other day:

14th May - 15th June 2015:
Window for Unions to express interest

May 2016:
Detailed tender information sent to interested unions

June 2016:
Deadline for bid submissions

May 2017: 
RWC 2023 Hosts announced

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/news/59620


As things stand, quite a lot of interest so far (believe Ireland, Italy, South Africa, Argentina, USA and Canada have all expressed interest already, and would be surprised if Scotland, Wales, France and Australia don't at least put in an expression of interest)


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## IThomas (Feb 11, 2011)

*Italy interested in 2023 Rugby World Cup
FIR confirms considering making a bid to World Rugby*

The Italian Rugby Federation (FIR) confirmed to World Rugby on Thursday that it is interested in hosting the 10th Rugby World Cup in 2023. FIR President Alfredo Gavazzi said the federation would formally announce it was bidding in May, while stressing that there is no doubt that Italy will be among the runners, after winning backing from the Italian Olympic Committee for the bid.

Italy failed in a bid to host either this year's World Cup or the 2019 tournament, which were assigned to England and Japan respectively. "The growth of rugby in Italy in recent years, the results obtained with the public attendance in the Six Nations and in the autumn test matches and the experience of the Under-20 World Cup in 2011 are just some of the pillars of the Italian bid," said Gavazzi. 

"I'm certain that Italian rugby has everything necessary to organize an unforgettable Rugby World Cup and that the whole movement will work to make this dream a reality over the next two years". World Rugby will assign the host of the 2023 RWC in May 2017.


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