# Who have big SUV-s?



## chornedsnorkack (Mar 13, 2009)

I note a conspicuous lack of spacious SUV-s not from USA.

US models:
Cadillac Escalade ESV 566 cm long, 189 cm high
Chevrolet Suburban 565 cm long, 195 cm high
Ford Expedition EL 562 cm long, 197 cm high
Lincoln Navigator L 567 cm long, 199 cm high

But elsewhere, the top models are:
Audi - Q7, just 508 cm long, 174 cm high
BMW - X5, 485 cm long, 178 cm high
Honda - Pilot, 485 cm long, 180 cm high
Infiniti - QX56, 526 cm long, 200 cm high
Lexus - LX, 499 cm long, 192 cm high
Mercedes - GL-class, 508 cm long, 184 cm high
Mitsubishi - Pajero, 490 cm long, 190 cm high
Nissan - Armada, 526 cm long, 200 cm high
Porsche - Cayenne, 480 cm long, 170 cm high
Range Rover - 498 cm high, 190 cm high
Toyota Land Cruiser - 495 cm long, 188 cm high
Volvo XC90 - 481 cm long, 178 cm high

So... how do the interiors compare?


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

I notice that you picked the four biggest American SUVs available.

As far as I know, the Suburban has had three-row seating since its introduction in the 1930s. I'm not sure about the seating in the others, though.


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## icracked (Feb 15, 2007)

There are at least 30 American SUVs that are much smaller than the ones you pick.


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## chornedsnorkack (Mar 13, 2009)

nerdly_dood said:


> I notice that you picked the four biggest American SUVs available.


Yes, deliberately. I also picked the biggest non-American SUV-s available, to compare apples with apples.


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## UD2 (Jan 21, 2006)

what's your point though? 

People out side of the North America usually buy much smaller cars. That's a known fact. 

How many DTS and Town Cars do you see in Europe?


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## chornedsnorkack (Mar 13, 2009)

UD2 said:


> People out side of the North America usually buy much smaller cars. That's a known fact.
> 
> How many DTS and Town Cars do you see in Europe?


It is Europe, not North America, that has the biggest cars.

Cadillac DTS is 527 cm long. Lincoln Town Car LWB is 562 cm.

Rolls-Royce Phantom LWB is 608 cm. Maybach 62 is 617 cm. Even the short versions are bigger than Lincoln Town Car, Phantom SWB is 583 cm and Maybach 57 is 573 cm.


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## FM 2258 (Jan 24, 2004)

I want to take a Suburban and drive it around the roads of Italy.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Do you also want to pay $ 7.2 per gallon driving that thing through Italy :lol:


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

Why not buy a truck instead of this?


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

Why not just compare the number of big, new SUVs to the number of small and midsize cars you see? Even in the mid-90s, a lot of cars sold were midsize sedans...


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## UD2 (Jan 21, 2006)

chornedsnorkack said:


> It is Europe, not North America, that has the biggest cars.
> 
> Cadillac DTS is 527 cm long. Lincoln Town Car LWB is 562 cm.
> 
> Rolls-Royce Phantom LWB is 608 cm. Maybach 62 is 617 cm. Even the short versions are bigger than Lincoln Town Car, Phantom SWB is 583 cm and Maybach 57 is 573 cm.


And how many people drive around in those. You might as well add in the 12ft stretches if you want to do it that way.

Not that my post said usually? 

I believe this is a generally what happens thread, rather than a who's gun is bigger thread. The latter just seem childishly naive to discuss over.


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## thun (Aug 8, 2007)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Do you also want to pay $ 7.2 per gallon driving that thing through Italy :lol:


Not to mention this thing called turn they have all over the place... :bash:


(There you have at least two points why huge cars don't make sense in Europe)


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## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

Americans are huge people, so they need big cars.


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## Inconfidente (Oct 5, 2006)

^^ :lol:


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## soulfly (Sep 13, 2008)

SUV under 5 meters is not big !!!


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## strandeed (May 31, 2009)

because they are largely pointless vehicles?


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

In my opinion, a car over 5 meters in length is more a big family car/MPV like the Chevy Suburban than a Sports Utility Vehicle. Or they're big pickup trucks.

An SUV doesn't necessarily have to be a long vehicle.


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## siamu maharaj (Jun 19, 2006)

Problem with large SUVs is that they aren't very agile. But the feeling you get of driving a huge vehicle is awesome.


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

siamu maharaj said:


> Problem with large SUVs is that they aren't very agile. But the feeling you get of driving a huge vehicle is awesome.


Yup, that's the deal with the Ford Crown Victoria used as a police vehicle - since it's such a big vehicle, you get a very comfortable ride (which is good since a police car is typically the cop's office for his entire workday), and you also have that awesome feeling that can't easily be described that comes from being in a big car, yet the bigger a vehicle is, the worse its handling.

But SUVs aren't designed for agility - they're pretty much an oversized station wagon, built on a truck frame. They're built partly for comfort, partly for safety (apart from the tendency to roll over) but mostly for that big-car feeling.


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## poshbakerloo (Jan 16, 2007)

If I'm buying an SUV I'm hardly gonna buy a small one! Whats the point!?


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## kyenan (Mar 22, 2003)

(Relatively) large SUVs of other companies

SAAB 9-7X: 4.91m x 1.74m

Volkswagen Touareg: 4.75m x 1.73m

Hyundai Veracruze: 4.84m x 1.75m

Kia Borrego (Mahave): 4.88m x 1.81m

Subaru Tribeca: 4.86m x 1.69m

Suzuki XL7: 5.01m x 1.75m


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## alexcheetah (Jun 16, 2009)

Verso said:


> Why not buy a truck instead of this?


the American suvs ARE trucks, they're based on the same truck chassis the only difference is that they can seat 8.:lol:

Seriously though, a lot people just see them as gas guzzling behemoths and don't see the real utility to them, I mean there are some people who use them for what they were mean for, like for example towing a large boat, carrying skis or snowboards/ bike equipment, using its high ground clearance to get over high snow, etc......


But to the other stay at home soccer moms who have to compensate for their insecurity, they can buy a Jetta wagon.:lol:


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

truck meaning in US = pickup truck
truck meaning in Europe = semi truck


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

ChrisZwolle said:


> truck meaning in US = pickup truck
> truck meaning in Europe = semi truck


a truck around here is typically interchangeable between most any work vehicle except for construction equipent, so long as it's not a van-type vehicle such as the Chevrolet Express, Dodge (Mercedes/Freightliner) Sprinter or Ford E-series (if it doesn't have a box attachment thing on the back, that makes it a truck) - cause they're vans.

so a pickup, or a tractor-trailer could be a truck, it's really not a specific word. IT's kinda a wide-ranging word, like how "Car" could mean a sedan/saloon, coupe, or station wagon.


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## FREKI (Sep 27, 2005)

chornedsnorkack said:


> I note a conspicuous lack of spacious SUV-s not from USA.


Yeah, when you have roads that turns having a house-sized 10 ton iron brick is hardly recommendable kay:


You wouldn't use a freight train as a street level tram either...


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## Taller Better (Aug 27, 2005)

I have a bike which has unlimited head and leg room and extremely good mileage!


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

Taller said:


> I have a bike which has unlimited head and leg room and extremely good mileage!


Actually, head room can be limited by riding your bike under road signs, which may (if you're stupid enough) cause a bit of a... um, headache.

Also, legroom can be limited by riding a bike that's too small for you, which can make you look like an idiot. (I don't have this problem, as my bike has 21-inch wheels. Yes, I'm a bit tall.)

Riding a bike a lot will increase energy output, which makes you hungry, and thus your fuel economy is much lower than when you drive, just sitting in your car. Hell, you're even using less fuel if you're screaming at the traffic!


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## He Named Thor (Feb 15, 2008)

Meet the Ford Excursion. 










The largest SUV to ever traverse our roads. Power comes from a 5.4Litre V8, a 6.8Litre V10, or a 7.3Litre Diesel V8. 

One simply does not call the Excursion large. Without seeing one in person you cannot possibly fathom how massive these beasts are. It's like our ancestors seeing a mastadon for the first time. 

A few people made them the family minivan, but most of these became heavy-duty work horses. Fire and police departments loved them. 



























































You know what though? I would absolutely love to own one (though not as a primary car, obviously). 












For what it's worth, the Toyota Sequoia does a good job trying to come close. Just needs to be a little longer.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

> 7.3Litre Diesel V8.


Isn't that a bit over the top? In Europe, most diesel cars do not go further than 2.5 liters, some high end models 3.0 or 3.3 liters. It would'nt surprise me if that 7.3 diesel engine would produce about the same amount of HP as European 3.0 liter diesels, hell even my 1.5 diesel gets 70 HP, and the 1.9 liter model of my car gets 120 HP.


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## He Named Thor (Feb 15, 2008)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Isn't that a bit over the top? In Europe, most diesel cars do not go further than 2.5 liters, some high end models 3.0 or 3.3 liters. It would'nt surprise me if that 7.3 diesel engine would produce about the same amount of HP as European 3.0 liter diesels, hell even my 1.5 diesel gets 70 HP, and the 1.9 liter model of my car gets 120 HP.


250hp (190kw), *525lb ft (712 N-m)*

It propelled the 7,190lb (3,260kg) Excursion to 60mph in about 10.79 seconds, and gave it the ability to tow up to 11,000 pounds (5,000kg)


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

What's the diesel mileage of that car?


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## He Named Thor (Feb 15, 2008)

ChrisZwolle said:


> What's the diesel mileage of that car?


It was never officially tested, as its weight classifies it as heavy-duty commercial/rural use vehicle.


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

what about the H1? something tells me that would weigh much more than the Excursion...

(The Excursion was based on the Ford F250 or 350 truck platform)


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## He Named Thor (Feb 15, 2008)

nerdly_dood said:


> what about the H1? something tells me that would weigh much more than the Excursion...
> 
> (The Excursion was based on the Ford F250 or 350 truck platform)


10,300lbs. Forgot about that one, though that's like counting a Maserati. Nobody is using that as the family minivan.


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

He Named Thor said:


> 10,300lbs. Forgot about that one, though that's like counting a Maserati. Nobody is using that as the family minivan.


Most people around here use a minivan as the family minivan. Strange, yes - Americans using something as it's meant to be used... but it's true. :nuts:


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## He Named Thor (Feb 15, 2008)

nerdly_dood said:


> Most people around here use a minivan as the family minivan. Strange, yes - Americans using something as it's meant to be used... but it's true. :nuts:


Pics or it didn't happen.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

You mean like this?


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## He Named Thor (Feb 15, 2008)

ChrisZwolle said:


> You mean like this?


Err, no. That's a full size van. Families almost never touch that. 

This is a minivan:


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Those are called "MPV" here (Multi-Purpose Vehicle). Like Pontiac Trans Sport, Seat Alhambra, Peugeot 807 etc.


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## mattec (Aug 2, 2009)

mini-vans are a dying breed, being replaced by the cross-over

here is the original, and one of the last










the Dodge Caravan

here is an example of a cross-over










the GMC Acadia


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

At some point, Dodge renamed the Caravan the "Grand Caravan." I dont really know why they did this, as it doesn't seem to be much more grand than the original Caravan... But it apparently didn't help save the minivan. 

I don't think they did it the same way as Jeep's Cherokee and Grand Cherokee, though, which are different models that were built at the same time - and the Grand Cherokee actually *was* more grand than the Cherokee, but of course they had to quit making the Cherokee. (possibly because it was the last Great American Boxmobile, with only a minor facelift, but still retaining its boxy shape until it was discontinued in 2000 or 2001)


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## chornedsnorkack (Mar 13, 2009)

He Named Thor said:


> Meet the Ford Excursion.
> 
> One simply does not call the Excursion large. Without seeing one in person you cannot possibly fathom how massive these beasts are. It's like our ancestors seeing a mastadon for the first time.
> 
> For what it's worth, the Toyota Sequoia does a good job trying to come close. Just needs to be a little longer.


Excursion, at 576 cm long and 204 cm high, is slightly longer than Lincoln Navigator. It also is out of production.

And still shorter than the 583 cm long Rolls-Royce Phantom.

Toyota Sequoia is 521 cm long, 191 cm high.


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## mattec (Aug 2, 2009)

how big is the expedition?


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

mattec said:


> how big is the expedition?


Significantly smaller than the Excursion, and significantly bigger than the Explorer.

I once saw an Excursion limousine trying to navigate local residential streets in Roanoke... It was on a particularly wide street, and having a particularly hard time turning onto another particularly wide street... it was hilarious.


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## He Named Thor (Feb 15, 2008)

Interesting. Well they did a good job making the Sequoia look big. 



nerdly_dood said:


> At some point, Dodge renamed the Caravan the "Grand Caravan." I dont really know why they did this, as it doesn't seem to be much more grand than the original Caravan... But it apparently didn't help save the minivan.
> 
> I don't think they did it the same way as Jeep's Cherokee and Grand Cherokee, though, which are different models that were built at the same time - and the Grand Cherokee actually *was* more grand than the Cherokee, but of course they had to quit making the Cherokee. (possibly because it was the last Great American Boxmobile, with only a minor facelift, but still retaining its boxy shape until it was discontinued in 2000 or 2001)


They always had the Grand Caravan. It was the extended-length version. They discontinued the short version this past model year, and the Journey is intended to replace it. 

Regular Caravan:









Grand Caravan:









I think the Grand Caravan also had a higher trim level or two. 

Journey:


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

^^ The Caravans are sold as "Chrysler Voyager" here in Europe, one of the most, if not the most, succesfull American cars in Europe.


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ The Caravans are sold as "Chrysler Voyager" here in Europe, one of the most, if not the most, succesfull American cars in Europe.


In the USA they sold the Chrysler Town and Country, a high-end version of the Dodge Caravan; and the Plymouth Voyager, which I think was more of a budget version.


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## He Named Thor (Feb 15, 2008)

nerdly_dood said:


> In the USA they sold the Chrysler Town and Country, a high-end version of the Dodge Caravan; and the Plymouth Voyager, which I think was more of a budget version.


And then we had the Routan...


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

Yes but that came just last year, and I haven't seen any in RL yet... i didnt even know what it was til i googled it just now.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Once near my house in Portugal I saw a Chevrolet Suburban down a tiny cul-de-sac. How it got there, I don't know but it can't have been easy, especially parked in the position that it was parked in.


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## WalkTheWorld (Aug 1, 2007)

FM 2258 said:


> I want to take a Suburban and drive it around the roads of Italy.


Be our guest!


I'ts easy, it's fun!


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## poshbakerloo (Jan 16, 2007)

nerdly_dood said:


> In the USA they sold the Chrysler Town and Country, a high-end version of the Dodge Caravan; and the Plymouth Voyager, which I think was more of a budget version.


In the UK its called the Grand Voyager which my mum has in silver with black windows. Its real nice car


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## Shezan (Jun 21, 2007)

I really like Infiniti


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## zivan56 (Apr 29, 2005)

I had a Honda Pilot (2003) and with the fold flat 3rd and 2nd row, I was able to fit a loveseat and table (with legs off) in with the back closed and with some space to spare. I believe most of those "bigger" SUVs that you listed have less cargo room than the Pilot for example. Exterior size does not mean more cabin space...its all about how all the space is used and laid out.


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## He Named Thor (Feb 15, 2008)

zivan56 said:


> I had a Honda Pilot (2003) and with the fold flat 3rd and 2nd row, I was able to fit a loveseat and table (with legs off) in with the back closed and with some space to spare. I believe most of those "bigger" SUVs that you listed have less cargo room than the Pilot for example. Exterior size does not mean more cabin space...its all about how all the space is used and laid out.


Correct. SUV's suck interior room wise. The van is the most efficient use of space.


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## NorthWesternGuy (Aug 25, 2005)

WalkTheWorld said:


> Be our guest!
> 
> 
> I'ts easy, it's fun!


I didn´t know that there were full-sized pick-ups in Europe. Or someone imported it?


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

I see them from time to time in Europe, both American and Asian pick-ups.

For instance today, waiting for my traffic light:


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## NorthWesternGuy (Aug 25, 2005)

^^A Toyota Tundra... Nice car I guess that those pick-ups in Europe is as strange as these cars here (The Toyota Prius is a little more common, but it´s still rare):lol:



Taken at the parking lot in my university


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

Yes, that is quite a bit strange. But there are pickups and SUVs all over the place in Virginia, yet I never saw a single one of those on my trip to Spain. And I've seen plenty of pix of other countries and whatever that is, it's not in any of them. 

I suppose the next best option is to say that small cars in general are an oddity, which they aren't. I routinely see smaller cars such as the Toyota Prius driving around, and my high school principal drives a Smart ForTwo. (that's one of the only ones in the area, though - those are NOT common, not nearly as much as in Spain)


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## WalkTheWorld (Aug 1, 2007)

NorthWesternGuy said:


> I didn´t know that there were full-sized pick-ups in Europe. Or someone imported it?


During the "Daimler-Mercedes" era, which is likely to continue with Fiat now, Chryselr widely sold compact vehicles like the PT Cruiser, the Crossfire and the Caliber along the Mercedes sales network. Cherolee and Grand Cherokee are good sellers. Dealer offer the Ram as well.

What can I say, a large, hard to negotiate. gas guzzler. But if you want a nce and impressive piece of metal you soon realize it's way cheaper than full sized European SUVs like the Cayenne or the X5. It it still more expensive than in the US though. Becuase of taxes. I guess you can buy a nice trim for $45.000 in the US. Which corresponds to Eur 30.000 here...the price of a midsized sedan..


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