# Enlargement of Schengen



## Gatis (Sep 22, 2003)

If somebody would say this to me in 1988 - I would not believe. Then going to Moon seemed a lot simpler than going to Sweden.

Can tell some stories, f.e. in our school (I ended in 1988) one guy was excellent in German language, he won competition and was recognised as the best in Latvia in his age. As a present he got a permit to go and visit Eastern Germany. Everybody envyed him very much. But... the visit to Eastern Germany coincided with exams in Academy of Arts where he wanted to study. And in these times - if you did not enter the highschool after completion of school, you were drawn in Soviet Army with high chances to die in Afghanistan or just from beating of fellow "comrades".

Without much thinking he decided to go to Eastern Germany - he missed his highschool and had to spend 2 years in humiliating conditions in Soviet Army for this. But he was happy about his decision then.

Such luxury as visit to Western Germany was beyond the wildest dreams.


----------



## DJZG (Aug 2, 2007)

keber said:


> Not in this turn. Switzerland is considering to join Schengen, but they won't join now. Above map is wrong.
> 
> This one is better. Dark blue already in Schengen, middle blue joining Schengen, light blue going to Schengen in some years.



looking at the map and living in Croatia... damn... this is so isolating... last 10 years we could go to Slovenia or Hungary just with identification card, now we need to show passport... really frustrating...hno:


----------



## Maxx☢Power (Nov 16, 2005)

mgk920 said:


> Aren't the UK/Ireland's inspections mainly to keep 'invasive' plant/animal/disease species off of the islands?
> 
> Mike


And invasive people, according to some 

Ireland didn't join Schengen basically because that would mean they'd have to quit the Common Travel Area which would mean they'd have to show their IDs to go to Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.


----------



## Sławek (Jun 13, 2006)

DJZG said:


> looking at the map and living in Croatia... damn... this is so isolating... last 10 years we could go to Slovenia or Hungary just with identification card, now we need to show passport... really frustrating...hno:


It's look like that Croatia is very near EU integration


----------



## Lankosher (Sep 12, 2004)

Sławek;14612224 said:


> It's look like that Croatia is very near EU integration


Most certainly deserves to be within the structure, but won't join until 2010 or better I guess.


----------



## DJZG (Aug 2, 2007)

igorlan said:


> Most certainly deserves to be within the structure, but won't join until 2010 or better I guess.


well if we talk about schengen it's going to happen when and important IF we enter EU... polls say that 50% of citizens are against joining, we're just sceptical about all that...hehe.. we're learning from a history of 900 years under other states 

but geographicaly looking, our roads are top class, highways are constructing everyday, tourism boost is one of the largest in europe i'll say, even though we could enter EU, we could also stay something like Switzerland  but with sea


----------



## Lankosher (Sep 12, 2004)

DJZG said:


> we could also stay something like Switzerland  but with sea


Come on mate, face it, you won't afford to stay outside, this is first of all within your interest to become a part of UE, even Switzerland will join Schengen in a couple of years not to mention that they might be a part of EU sooner or later.


----------



## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

^Why would Switzerland want to become a part of EU? Switzerland is better off without it.


----------



## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

Switzerland wouldn't give up their centuries-old political neutrality and sovereignty tradition so easily, which would automatically happen if they join the EU.


----------



## sk (Dec 6, 2005)

cyprus will join schengen when our 2 new airports are finished(end of 2009). the goverment does not want to waste money to upgrade security checking in the current airports.
our sea ports are almost 100% ready.
the other problem with implementing schengen in cyprus is that we will have to increase control at the green line dividing the island,which our goverment does not want to do it as it will increase the feeling of 2 states on the island .
cyprus is having talks with brussels trying to find a solution to this problem


----------



## Vrachar (Jun 17, 2005)

DJZG said:


> looking at the map and living in Croatia... damn... this is so isolating... last 10 years we could go to Slovenia or Hungary just with identification card, now we need to show passport... really frustrating...hno:


Sure, it's very frustrating. :| What would you say if you need not just passport but visa also, like rest of Western Balkanas. hno:


----------



## Lankosher (Sep 12, 2004)

Vrachar said:


> Sure, it's very frustrating. :| What would you say if you need not just passport but visa also, like rest of Western Balkanas. hno:


You guys still need visas to enter EU??????


----------



## Vrachar (Jun 17, 2005)

^^ 
Yes, unfortunately. hno: 

I've just got Schengen visa for my trip to Portugal in next week. To get the visa I had to provide tons of documents. It costed me lot of time, nerves and money. Just to have opportunity to go there and spend my hard earned money.


----------



## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

GENIUS LOCI said:


> The difference will be over all about 'commercial' limitation: Schengen will make 'em fall down


Would Schengen really make that much of a difference to commercial barriers? There is a single European market regardless of Schengen, I don't think that a requirement to show a passport would really block much trade.

Maybe if some countries were previously very strict with controls and large queues formed at the borders this would be a problem but here at least the customs controls are usually very quick, the customs officers just wave most people through without stopping them.


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

^^ You forget the hours of waiting time for trucks (commercial traffic) at the borders. Now the time is reduced since Poland belongs to EU, but a few years ago, you easily could wait one day at the border if you were a truck driver.


----------



## Lankosher (Sep 12, 2004)

Chris1491 said:


> ^^ You forget the hours of waiting time for trucks (commercial traffic) at the borders. Now the time is reduced since Poland belongs to EU, but a few years ago, you easily could wait one day at the border if you were a truck driver.


Just literally yesterday, it was on Polish news channel (TVN24) that there was some major server outage on Ukrainian border which caused a huge queue of trucks as a result. The estimated queue time was roughly 12 hours.


----------



## AUchamps (Apr 26, 2007)

Gatis said:


> If somebody would say this to me in 1988 - I would not believe. Then going to Moon seemed a lot simpler than going to Sweden.
> 
> Can tell some stories, f.e. in our school (I ended in 1988) one guy was excellent in German language, he won competition and was recognised as the best in Latvia in his age. As a present he got a permit to go and visit Eastern Germany. Everybody envyed him very much. But... the visit to Eastern Germany coincided with exams in Academy of Arts where he wanted to study. And in these times - if you did not enter the highschool after completion of school, you were drawn in Soviet Army with high chances to die in Afghanistan or just from beating of fellow "comrades".
> 
> ...


Glad to see that Eastern Europe is a part of the open, global economy now. Your children will see the world as boundless, and even space too.


----------



## bgplayer19 (Nov 25, 2007)

We(Bulgaria) are looking forward to join Schengen in 2-3 years and adopt the Euro together with Estonia,Latvia and Lithuania:banana:


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

I don't think you guys will adopt the Euro very soon. There are strict regulations for that.


----------



## eomer (Nov 15, 2003)

Chriszwolle said:


> I don't think you guys will adopt the Euro very soon. There are strict regulations for that.


Bulgaria is not so far from Euro and Shengen...
There are "only" little troubles with corruption to solve but Bulgaria made lot of efforts during the 3 last years.


----------



## Stifler (Apr 11, 2006)

eomer said:


> Bulgaria is not so far from Euro and Shengen...
> There are "only" little troubles with corruption to solve but Bulgaria made lot of efforts during the 3 last years.


And inflation. Nobody can join the Eurozone with an inflation over 10%.

Their expected date to join in 2010 but I think 2012 is more realistic.


----------



## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

eomer said:


> during the 3 last years.


Bulgaria joined this year,if you're talking about that...


----------



## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

Stifler said:


> And inflation. Nobody can join the Eurozone with an inflation over 10%.
> 
> Their expected date to join in 2010 but I think 2012 is more realistic.


Inflation has to be under 4% so I don't think Euro will come to Bulgaria for 2012. For Estonia it was planned to join the Euro zone in 2007, but at the moment anything before 2013 will be great.


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Inflation isn't necessary bad, because in Eastern European countries, prices increase, but also the income. But a low inflation is a good sign for a decent economy.


----------



## Qwert (Jun 25, 2006)

Beat this - Slovakia 2006: Core inflation 2.7%, GDP growth 8.3%.:cheers:

Source: http://ekonomika.etrend.sk/14495/slovensko/slovensko-v-ekonomickych-cislach

However, ECB will certainly find something to keep us out of Eurozone.hno:


----------



## keber (Nov 8, 2006)

Qwert said:


> Beat this - Slovakia 2006: Core inflation 2.7%, GDP growth 8.3%.


That's good. And you are already in ERM II. Now compare to Slovenia after almost one year of euro: cca 5% growth, but cca 5% inflation (actually prices went much more nuts, but statistics don't show that)


----------



## Qwert (Jun 25, 2006)

keber said:


> That's good. And you are already in ERM II. Now compare to Slovenia after almost one year of euro: cca 5% growth, but cca 5% inflation (actually prices went much more nuts, but statistics don't show that)


I think the same or even worse could expect Slovakia after possible joining of Eurozone.


----------



## Club_Dru (Jul 11, 2007)

I hope te new E.U. members increase their economie in a few years and join the Euro. And if they create a strong national economy, the 100.000 east-Europeans in Holland can go back to work in their own countries again. The open borders causes a lot of problems with migrants from the new EU-members. That's why the majority of Dutch voters, voted 'no' against Europe.
Not every migrants causes problems, but most of the Dutch are afraid to lose their jobs. So in my opinion they must close the borders again.


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

^^ That's what they tell you on TV. They take jobs Dutch people think themselves they are too good for it. 

And did you really think those Poles with a low income would live in an upscale neighborhood? Ofcourse not. This is all something we could have known.

Well, i think, with the increase of economy and income in Poland, i think they will return to Poland soon, because they are being exploited here, with wages under the official minimum income. I think they are better off in Poland within a few years.


----------



## mojaBL (Oct 24, 2007)

andrewsimons said:


> I hope te new E.U. members increase their economie in a few years and join the Euro. And if they create a strong national economy, the 100.000 east-Europeans in Holland can go back to work in their own countries again. The open borders causes a lot of problems with migrants from the new EU-members. That's why the majority of Dutch voters, voted 'no' against Europe.
> Not every migrants causes problems, but most of the Dutch are afraid to lose their jobs. So in my opinion they must close the borders again.


if there were no immigrants and cheap labor from east, Holland wouldn´t be that successful and rich. So praise them every day!


----------



## Lankosher (Sep 12, 2004)

mojaBL said:


> if there were no immigrants and cheap labor from east, Holland wouldn´t be that successful and rich. So praise them every day!


Great reasoning :cheers:


----------



## AUchamps (Apr 26, 2007)

mojaBL said:


> if there were no immigrants and cheap labor from east, Holland wouldn´t be that successful and rich. So praise them every day!


Sounds like Eastern European labor is to Western Europe as Mexican labor is to the USA.

Only difference is, your labor isn't illegally in your nations(but the wages they're getting are below the minimum wages mandated by law)


----------



## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

^^ Only a few people employed by unscrupulous employers get less than the legal minimum, most East Europeans here in the UK at least get at the national minimum wage or more. The fact that they are legal makes it more likely that they will complain to the authorities if they are being mistreated.


----------



## mojaBL (Oct 24, 2007)

Jonesy55 said:


> ^^ Only a few people employed by unscrupulous employers get less than the legal minimum, most East Europeans here in the UK at least get at the national minimum wage or more. The fact that they are legal makes it m*ore likely that they will complain to the authorities *if they are being mistreated.


i don´t think so coz they are affraid to do that. And authorities will surely protect the dutchs over some foreigners, meaning they will surely stay blind and deaf.


----------



## bgplayer19 (Nov 25, 2007)

Rebasepoiss said:


> Inflation has to be under 4% so I don't think Euro will come to Bulgaria for 2012. For Estonia it was planned to join the Euro zone in 2007, but at the moment anything before 2013 will be great.


At the moment our inflation is 4.6% and if you check the timetable in Wikipedia you will see that we have filled every criteria except one thing which i can't remember right now!Also we are researching our EURO coin and soon it will be announced!The date of adopting the EURO is 2009 along with Estonia,Latvia and Lithuania i think


----------



## Stifler (Apr 11, 2006)

bgplayer19 said:


> At the moment our inflation is 4.6% and if you check the timetable in Wikipedia you will see that we have filled every criteria except one thing which i can't remember right now!


Where have you seen that data? Bulgaria's inflation in October was 10.6% (link). The other statement is right. You have a low debt and deficit so it won't be a problem to join the Eurozone. You just need to keep your inflation below 4%, something not easy in a booming economy.


----------



## ADCS (Oct 30, 2006)

One thing you have to take into account is that most W. European cars have to be checked at the Bulgarian border to make sure that the headlights don't put out too much light. The extreme shininess of the Struma's crashbarriers would otherwise cause innumerable accidents.


----------



## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

ADCS said:


> One thing you have to take into account is that most W. European cars have to be checked at the Bulgarian border to make sure that the headlights don't put out too much light. The extreme shininess of the Struma's crashbarriers would otherwise cause innumerable accidents.


:lol:


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

mojaBL said:


> i don´t think so coz they are affraid to do that. And authorities will surely protect the dutchs over some foreigners, meaning they will surely stay blind and deaf.


If thats done systematically and they get once to the wrong one, that will end up at the European court of Justice due to discrimination.

Just a question of time.


----------



## Maxx☢Power (Nov 16, 2005)

AUchamps said:


> Sounds like Eastern European labor is to Western Europe as Mexican labor is to the USA.
> 
> Only difference is, your labor isn't illegally in your nations(but the wages they're getting are below the minimum wages mandated by law)


Not at all the same thing.

Hm, am I having a deja vu?


----------



## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

Slartibartfas said:


> If thats done systematically and they get once to the wrong one, that will end up at the European court of Justice due to discrimination.
> 
> Just a question of time.


Just like the austrian motorway police,that uses the excuse "opposing the enforcement",when a hungarian doesnt speak german,and fines them to thousands of euros?


----------



## wyqtor (Jan 15, 2007)

RawLee said:


> Just like the austrian motorway police,that uses the excuse "opposing the enforcement",when a hungarian doesnt speak german,and fines them to thousands of euros?


OMG, do they really do that??? :shocked:


----------



## Qwert (Jun 25, 2006)

RawLee said:


> Just like the austrian motorway police,that uses the excuse "opposing the enforcement",when a hungarian doesnt speak german,and fines them to thousands of euros?


That's Austrians. For many of them is everybody from Ostblock at least mass murderer.hno:


----------



## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

wyqtor said:


> OMG, do they really do that??? :shocked:


Not the first case,that I've read,although I've myself was never fined...neither home,nor abroad. Though they only use it when there is a basis for the inspection(like speeding),but they use this excuse to raise the fine. At least,that what I've read...



































just some examples of the latest case.


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

> *Slovakia, Austria kick off Schengen expansion party*
> 
> BERG-PETRZALKA CROSSING, Austria-Slovakia border (AFP) — Slovakia and Austria on Thursday launched ceremonies to extend the European Union's passport-free Schengen zone to nine mainly ex-East bloc countries seeking to shed their communist pasts.
> 
> ...


more here

Congratulations to all Eastern Europe forumers! :banana:


----------



## wyqtor (Jan 15, 2007)

:dance:

Congratulations to all! I hope RO&BG join soon, we also don't need for corrupt and annoying customs officers anymore! :banana:

Next spring I'm going to Prague if all is well, instead of 3 borders there will be just one!


----------



## keber (Nov 8, 2006)

Chriszwolle said:


> more here
> 
> Congratulations to all Eastern Europe forumers! :banana:


Testing new border in Saturday.:cheers:


----------



## Chris_533976 (Sep 30, 2007)

Fantastic 

Britain wont join because of pig-headedness (sorry, but thats what it is  ) and it isnt really sensible for Ireland to join without Britain joining


----------



## Mateusz (Feb 14, 2007)

Now I will not have to stand in queue on border with Germany in Olszyna or Jędrzychowice


----------



## x-type (Aug 19, 2005)

keber said:


> Testing new border in Saturday.:cheers:


gonna be interesting at Macelj/Obrežje


----------



## Republica (Jun 30, 2005)

Its just plain annoying that we dont join. Anyone know why we dont?

Also, I've got a friend who claims he's seen people travel to switzerland showign Id cards only from the UK. Is he talking crap? 

At the moment at least we can travel to ireland passport free if we want.


----------



## x-type (Aug 19, 2005)

^^Do you in the UK have ID cards? At web of Croatian Ministry of Foreign Affairs it's written that you can pass our border only with ID card


----------



## go_leafs_go02 (Jan 16, 2007)

UK isn't part of Schegen? funny, cause I never had to show my passport when crossing the Channel from England to France.

Or is this different?


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Republica said:


> Also, I've got a friend who claims he's seen people travel to switzerland showign Id cards only from the UK. Is he talking crap?


No, it is also possible with Dutch ID cards if i'm correct.


----------



## Guest (Dec 21, 2007)

Chris_533976 said:


> Britain wont join because of pig-headedness (sorry, but thats what it is  ) and it isnt really sensible for Ireland to join without Britain joining


Indeed, I often think the decision makers think there's some sort of unspeakable evil waiting at the other side of Europe just waiting for a clear run to our country.


----------



## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

x-type said:


> ^^Do you in the UK have ID cards? At web of Croatian Ministry of Foreign Affairs it's written that you can pass our border only with ID card


No, we don't.

Hamilton: I did, but on a ferry from France to Ireland no.


----------



## Chris_533976 (Sep 30, 2007)

Republica said:


> At the moment at least we can travel to ireland passport free if we want.


Only really on ferries, if you go through an airport whilst you technically dont need a passport you'd be daft not to take one cos of the hassle you'd get.


----------



## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

I don't think that Schengen would make a huge practical difference to the UK, you can't just drive onto the continent because there is a large stretch of water in the way, to get on a ferry or train, you have to check in and show tickets anyway so it's no extra hassle if you show a passport at the same time.

Our only land border is with the Irish Republic and that is already open a la Schengen anyway.

It's not as if there are huge queues and long delays at the ports anyway, usually you don't get stopped.


----------



## Republica (Jun 30, 2005)

It would mean that we dont have to piss about with passport control on our international trains, and would increase the likelyhood of being able to get direct trains from other british destinations.

I flew to ireland on only my driving license and had absolutely no hassle at all.

But yeh, in the main it doesnt really make much difference. I have noticed they are much stricter now though at our passport control where they used to wave past anyone holding what looked like a british passport without opening it!

And also i believe we are party signed up to Schengen in terms of security sharing. 

This is much more of a difference for these eastern european countries who has years of restricted movement and to have free borders with the rest of europe must be a great day and i'm pleased for you all!


----------



## Jeroen669 (Nov 29, 2006)

x-type said:


> ^^Do you in the UK have ID cards? At web of Croatian Ministry of Foreign Affairs it's written that you can pass our border only with ID card


In the Netherlands you officially can even be fined for not showing ID/passport WITHIN the borders. :nuts:


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Jeroen669 said:


> In the Netherlands you officially can even be fined for not showing ID/passport WITHIN the borders. :nuts:


That is the case in many countries.


----------



## Jeroen669 (Nov 29, 2006)

Ok, I didn't know that.


----------



## edolen1 (Oct 12, 2004)

I remember when I entered the UK through Stansted Airport back in August there was a 45-min queue at the passport control, for EU citizens.. If not anything else at least that would be eliminated if the UK joined Schengen.


----------



## Maxx☢Power (Nov 16, 2005)

x-type said:


> ^^Do you in the UK have ID cards? At web of Croatian Ministry of Foreign Affairs it's written that you can pass our border only with ID card


The passport only serves as an ID in this case. Any official ID will do.

Britain doesn't join Schengen because they want to control (third-country) immigration, and probably a bit of good old stubbornness. Ireland would have to leave the Common Travel Area with Britain (a "mini-Schengen") to join Schengen, which of course would be very impractical. Britain takes part in the SIS data sharing part of Schengen, so they get the "bad" parts but not the good ones :|


----------



## eomer (Nov 15, 2003)

Chris_533976 said:


> Fantastic
> 
> Britain wont join because of pig-headedness (sorry, but thats what it is  ) and it isnt really sensible for Ireland to join without Britain joining


That's not so different: it's imposible to go to UK without using a plane, a boat, Eurostar or the Shuttle*. In all cases, you have to show your ID.
* Of course, you can choose to swim across the channel or to use your own boat or windsurf...but how many people do that each year ?


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

RawLee said:


> Just like the austrian motorway police,that uses the excuse "opposing the enforcement",when a hungarian doesnt speak german,and fines them to thousands of euros?


The first time I hear about that.
Do you have any source?


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Qwert said:


> That's Austrians. For many of them is everybody from Ostblock at least mass murderer.hno:


You should not be so generalizing towards Austria as our damn mass tabloid, the Kronenzeitung, is towards the new EU member states and its citizens. There are many who hate that paper for the ugly xenophoby it spreads day in and out. 

I hate to see how our government currently acts towards our neighbor countries like the Czech republic or Hungary. It makes me feel ashamed in fact to see how they act.


----------



## Qwert (Jun 25, 2006)

Slartibartfas said:


> You should not be so generalizing towards Austria as our damn mass tabloid, the Kronenzeitung, is towards the new EU member states and its citizens. There are many who hate that paper for the ugly xenophoby it spreads day in and out.
> 
> I hate to see how our government currently acts towards our neighbor countries like the Czech republic or Hungary. It makes me feel ashamed in fact to see how they act.


Well, I've written: "for many of them." I know not everybody thinks it. For example yesterday I've seen on the Slovak news television TA3 mayor of Wolfsthal who even has Slovak wife ans is speaking very well Slovak and he said it's necessary to remove borders also form people's mind. However, I don't think that deploying Austrian army near borders or forbidding to pass border crossing Moravský Svätý Ján/Hohenau at night is way how to do it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

The attitude from Dutch media towards eastern Europe is also not that good, especially to Poles, as you read the papers, they are only drunk, creating a mess in neighborhoods and living with 15 people in one home or a van. It's really a shame, the people who criticize the most, have never actually been in those countries.


----------



## Lankosher (Sep 12, 2004)

Chriszwolle said:


> The attitude from Dutch media towards eastern Europe is also not that good, especially to Poles, as you read the papers, they are only drunk, creating a mess in neighborhoods and living with 15 people in one home or a van. It's really a shame, the people who criticize the most, have never actually been in those countries.


No offence to anyone but Holland would be a shithold now, if it weren't the emigrants from the rest of the world. I think that Dutch media should consider it, but they seem to be very forgetful of the facts.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Qwert said:


> Well, I've written: "for many of them." I know not everybody thinks it. For example yesterday I've seen on the Slovak news television TA3 mayor of Wolfsthal who even has Slovak wife ans is speaking very well Slovak and he said it's necessary to remove borders also form people's mind.


I forgot if it was Wolfsthal, but a neighboring Austrian village to Bratislava wanted to make a large step forward in improving public transport to Bratislava now. The mayor could not expect that the Austrian post busses would not only refuse to serve that line (that was no problem they had found already someone else who would do so), but also that they forbid anyone else to serve it as they have the exclusive right of doing... what assholes... I think their is a case pending at the court because of that. I still hope that the position of the post busses is unholdable. 



> I don't think that deploying Austrian army near borders


This step is largely criticized in Austria as well. Simply because its a farce and probably an unconstitutional farce as well. But if I can make you feel better, their presence their is meaningless anyway, every action except calling the police committed by them would be illegal. If that not helps perhaps it helps when I tell you that the Bavarians did also rise quite overreacted border region controls when we joined Schengen in 1998. They soon came to the conclusion that its not justified.

It seems our politicians are so afraid from the Krone and her xenophobe opinion dictate over Austria that they seem to think its worth to enrage the neighbors for something that is completely senseless. 



> or forbidding to pass border crossing Moravský Svätý Ján/Hohenau at night is way how to do it.


Isn't that because of what the Hungarians wanted?
Maybe they even have a point, as its a nature protection area this is going through.


----------



## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

Slartibartfas said:


> The first time I hear about that.
> Do you have any source?


I know only 1 case that made it to the internet. But in that case,a lawyer said its not the first. I dont know,and I dont really care. As much as I can tell from this case,they driver was speeding,so the police had legal basis to fine him(if this would happen at home,with a local,I'd even dare to say it is a good lesson for him).
BTW,on my way today coming home from eastern-Hungary,5 romanian SUVs drove over the limit,1 romanian Opel with a trailer(!!!),and a slovakian Skoda,not counting the local bullets. I dont know where is our police...hno:


----------



## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

RawLee said:


> I know only 1 case that made it to the internet. But in that case,a lawyer said its not the first. I dont know,and I dont really care. As much as I can tell from this case,they driver was speeding,so the police had legal basis to fine him(if this would happen at home,with a local,I'd even dare to say it is a good lesson for him).
> BTW,on my way today coming home from eastern-Hungary,5 romanian SUVs drove over the limit,1 romanian Opel with a trailer(!!!),and a slovakian Skoda,not counting the local bullets. I dont know where is our police...hno:


You do know everybody speeds right?


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

RawLee said:


> I know only 1 case that made it to the internet. But in that case,a lawyer said its not the first. I dont know,and I dont really care. As much as I can tell from this case,they driver was speeding,so the police had legal basis to fine him(if this would happen at home,with a local,I'd even dare to say it is a good lesson for him).
> BTW,on my way today coming home from eastern-Hungary,5 romanian SUVs drove over the limit,1 romanian Opel with a trailer(!!!),and a slovakian Skoda,not counting the local bullets. I dont know where is our police...hno:


Well if they were too fast, then they have to be ready to pay the fine when being caught. Nothing wrong with that.

As I dont know anything about those cases, if they were forced to pay more than the original fine it might be because he was so clever and thought he might get away with refusing to pay. 

If its one of those things I can't see something wrong. I strongly doubt someone has to pay anything if he does not speak German. If eg a Hungarian speeder thinks he can play stupid and refuse to pay the fine than thats something different. (Even if he doesn't speak a word German or English, its possible to make him realize that he has to pay a certain fine now)


----------



## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

LtBk said:


> You do know everybody speeds right?


I dont. Thats at least one.



Slartibartfas said:


> Well if they were too fast, then they have to be ready to pay the fine when being caught. Nothing wrong with that.
> 
> As I dont know anything about those cases, if they were forced to pay more than the original fine it might be because he was so clever and thought he might get away with refusing to pay.
> 
> If its one of those things I can't see something wrong. I strongly doubt someone has to pay anything if he does not speak German. If eg a Hungarian speeder thinks he can play stupid and refuse to pay the fine than thats something different. (Even if he doesn't speak a word German or English, its possible to make him realize that he has to pay a certain fine now)


I dont know if he did try to evade the fine or not. It happened,thats what I know.
BTW,I've found the documentation of the case...on the previous page:nuts:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=16775064&postcount=64


----------



## Qwert (Jun 25, 2006)

Slartibartfas said:


> I forgot if it was Wolfsthal, but a neighboring Austrian village to Bratislava wanted to make a large step forward in improving public transport to Bratislava now. The mayor could not expect that the Austrian post busses would not only refuse to serve that line (that was no problem they had found already someone else who would do so), but also that they forbid anyone else to serve it as they have the exclusive right of doing... what assholes... I think their is a case pending at the court because of that. I still hope that the position of the post busses is unholdable.


Transport company of Bratislava wants to serve Wolfsthal and Hainburg, but some Austrian company refuses it because it has exlusive rights there. However, there is already bus connection of those little towns with Bratislava operated by company Slovak Lines.



Slartibartfas said:


> This step is largely criticized in Austria as well. Simply because its a farce and probably an unconstitutional farce as well. But if I can make you feel better, their presence their is meaningless anyway, every action except calling the police committed by them would be illegal. If that not helps perhaps it helps when I tell you that the Bavarians did also rise quite overreacted border region controls when we joined Schengen in 1998. They soon came to the conclusion that its not justified.
> 
> It seems our politicians are so afraid from the Krone and her xenophobe opinion dictate over Austria that they seem to think its worth to enrage the neighbors for something that is completely senseless.


I think it's populism from Austrian governemnt. I know those soldiers can do nothing. But, as some Austrians can appreciate it, some people in new Schengen countries can consider it as an offence.



Slartibartfas said:


> Isn't that because of what the Hungarians wanted?
> Maybe they even have a point, as its a nature protection area this is going through.


Moravský Svätý Ján/Hohenau is very far from Hungary. It's small border crossing between Austria and Slovakia close to the Czech border. Here is map: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...d=103736049826817828962.000441fa9e994a505d37e Maybe it's due to protection fo nature, but why it was placed there on the day when Schengen was extended? The traffic there is very low, at night almost no and without trucks so I can see no point there. Both banks of river Morava are protected area. Niderosterreich offcials wanted Slovak officials to do the same, but they refused to do so.


----------



## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

Some interesting numbers from the new outer borders:
in the last 60 hours,border guards caught:
20 trespassers,out of which 19 tried to get into the Schengen zone,and 1 out:nuts:
1 people smuggler
20 fake documents(romanian and bulgarian IDs and fake EU visas)
37 people who are banned from the Schengen zone
1 person missing
11 wanted criminals
many stolen cars and licence plates too.

There are bad news too. 20 trucks can get out in an hour to Ukraine,and 500 are waiting.


----------



## Qwert (Jun 25, 2006)

I recommend to watch this video form Schnegen border between Slovakia and Ukraine: http://www.sme.sk/video/?id=2351


----------



## Rebasepoiss (Jan 6, 2007)

^^ The only bad thing we've had is that one people who was forbidden to entry Estonia still managed to do it, but that's it.


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Hmmm somehow it kinda feels like to me that the iron curtain still exist, only now it forms the outer borders of Schengen. 

Though i am glad with the current expansion of Schengen, it makes trade and national markets in eastern europe much more accessible, something that will work out for everybody's welfare in the future, though we (= western Europe) are now struggling with a lot of work immigrants from especially Poland, but that's just a temporary phase i think. 

Overtime, when Poland economy will reach the same welfare level as in western Europe, this work immigration will end. We went through the same in late 80's when Spain and Portugal joined the EU. This is just a matter of time and patience. 

I hope they will have that patience in Eastern Europe too, sometimes you read about people expecting to have the same welfare as in Western Europe within a few years. That might not be true, it takes time, we (=western/northern Europe) worked for decades to reach the welfare level we have now.


----------



## edolen1 (Oct 12, 2004)

The Schengen border poses a problem for many second-hand car owners as well.. You may find out the car you legally bought was actually stolen, it's happened to many Czechs and Slovaks which tried to cross the Slovenian-Croatian border after we started implementing the system back in August.. And if your car is stolen, you aren't getting it back..


----------



## Dan (Jun 16, 2007)

RawLee said:


> Some interesting numbers from the new outer borders:
> in the last 60 hours,border guards caught:
> 20 trespassers,out of which 19 tried to get into the Schengen zone,and 1 out:nuts:
> 1 people smuggler
> ...


That's kind of scary actually, and worries me a bit given that Bulgaria and Romania will be in Schengen within a few years. A lot of people thought that they weren't even ready for the EU quite yet in 2007 and should have joined in 2008. Hopefully they'll be 1000% ready for Schengen, though, before they are let in, because it's quite important for many countries.


----------



## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

Dan1113 said:


> That's kind of scary actually, and worries me a bit given that Bulgaria and Romania will be in Schengen within a few years. A lot of people thought that they weren't even ready for the EU quite yet in 2007 and should have joined in 2008. Hopefully they'll be 1000% ready for Schengen, though, before they are let in, because it's quite important for many countries.


Outer borders are Ukraine,Serbia and Croatia. Well,Romania too,but they are let through,because they are EU members...


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

RawLee said:


> I dont. Thats at least one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Reads weird. To be honest, I can't really make sense out of it, if someone would have more about those cases it would be interesting to read. I mean they write that the recepte mentioned only 140€ but the police men acknowledget that they fined 1100€. One of the former paper mentions 960€ Sicherheitsrücklage or so. No idea what this is or meant to be.

But to be honest I dont have much experience with speeder fines, never got one yet.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Qwert said:


> Transport company of Bratislava wants to serve Wolfsthal and Hainburg, but some Austrian company refuses it because it has exlusive rights there. However, there is already bus connection of those little towns with Bratislava operated by company Slovak Lines.


Yes, but the other service would be considerably better and more integrated. It would be a great step forward in regards to PT service quality. 
As I have said, there is a court case pending as far as I know. I hope that the Postbus has no chance if it wants to use its exclusive right of service in order to prevent any better service.




> I think it's populism from Austrian governemnt. I know those soldiers can do nothing. But, as some Austrians can appreciate it, some people in new Schengen countries can consider it as an offence.


Of course they can. But the question is if they are then cleverer than those who appreciate it. 



> Moravský Svätý Ján/Hohenau is very far from Hungary. It's small border crossing between Austria and Slovakia close to the Czech border. Here is map: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...d=103736049826817828962.000441fa9e994a505d37e Maybe it's due to protection fo nature, but why it was placed there on the day when Schengen was extended? The traffic there is very low, at night almost no and without trucks so I can see no point there. Both banks of river Morava are protected area. Niderosterreich offcials wanted Slovak officials to do the same, but they refused to do so.


Oh. 
Well I can't comment on this specific case as I have not the slightest information about it. 

Sounds a bit like the case with Hungary just the other way round. But I can err.


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Dan1113 said:


> That's kind of scary actually, and worries me a bit given that Bulgaria and Romania will be in Schengen within a few years. A lot of people thought that they weren't even ready for the EU quite yet in 2007 and should have joined in 2008. Hopefully they'll be 1000% ready for Schengen, though, before they are let in, because it's quite important for many countries.


I agree, in my opinion, there should be some same level of welfare, corruption, economy and income between Schengen countries. I don't think those 2 countries are there yet. I also had my doubts with Lithuania and Latvia, but i understand there would be some impractical situations then. 

And today, i read this story about Romanian parents from the poor countryside leave their children to work in Italy and Spain, and i think this kind of stuff shouldn't happen in the EU or schengen. I understand the situation in these countries and their need for economic growth, but when your workforce leaves the country, how can you accomplish economic growth? I understand the motives for those people who want to work in Western Europe, but i also understand the resistance to all this from western Europe towards these countries. 

To be frank, i think Romania and Bulgaria entered too soon, sure i would adjudge them economic profits from entering the EU, but things have to work both ways. 

I think the EU should wait for further eastern europe expansion (except Croatia), until the now eastern European EU countries have a higher level of welfare


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

RawLee said:


> Some interesting numbers from the new outer borders:
> in the last 60 hours,border guards caught:
> 20 trespassers,out of which 19 tried to get into the Schengen zone,and *1 out*:nuts:
> .


:lol:

Was he a looked after criminal or just an idiot?


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

edolen1 said:


> The Schengen border poses a problem for many second-hand car owners as well.. You may find out the car you legally bought was actually stolen, it's happened to many Czechs and Slovaks which tried to cross the Slovenian-Croatian border after we started implementing the system back in August.. And if your car is stolen, you aren't getting it back..


Is this a consequence out of being part of the SIS system?
Cool.

Just one question, where are those Czechs and Slovaks buying their cars? At least according to Austrian law they could hold themselves free of any financial damage if they could not expect that they buy a stolen car. In fact the trader would be the target of illegal dealer accusations then.

I would say, mind the the papers of the primary owner, if they are correct, its fine, if they are forged in a way that you can't find out that they are forged you are fine as well, because then the former owner has a problem.


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

The A1 in the Netherlands is one large flow of Polish, Russian, Belorussian and Ukranian cars with trailers with new cars towards the east.


----------



## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

Slartibartfas said:


> :lol:
> 
> Was he a looked after criminal or just an idiot?


That wasnt in the article
An article on a site of a county,they wrote that at Röszke(motorway border with Serbia),there were 5 people caught who were banned from Schengen zone,2 tried to get in,3 tried to leave. Of the 5, 2 was reported from Germany,1-1 from Austria,CZ and Hungary.


----------



## Qwert (Jun 25, 2006)

Slartibartfas said:


> Yes, but the other service would be considerably better and more integrated. It would be a great step forward in regards to PT service quality.
> As I have said, there is a court case pending as far as I know. I hope that the Postbus has no chance if it wants to use its exclusive right of service in order to prevent any better service.


Such service would be good, beacuse those buses will drive regulary no mather if full or empty. Not like present buses which even don't stop there if there's no reservation. It's ridiculous, Wolfsthal is some 9 km form the center of Bratislava, but it's complicated to get there without car.



Slartibartfas said:


> Of course they can. But the question is if they are then cleverer than those who appreciate it.


I don't think it's question of cleverness. It's just completely useless step.



Slartibartfas said:


> Oh.
> Well I can't comment on this specific case as I have not the slightest information about it.
> 
> Sounds a bit like the case with Hungary just the other way round. But I can err.


It's quite an issue here. It was also in the TV news yesterday and all Slovak dailys informed about it. They all consider it as an offence and discrimination. It can cause a lot of problems since many people travel there from or to work, there are cultural events on both side of river with attendance from both banks and it's wierd to end them before 22:00. Another problem is it's just 30 metres form the end of the one way bridge on one way road where is not possible to turn your car without violating the law. What they protect those 30 metres?


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Qwert said:


> Such service would be good, beacuse those buses will drive regulary no mather if full or empty. Not like present buses which even don't stop there if there's no reservation. It's ridiculous, Wolfsthal is some 9 km form the center of Bratislava, but it's complicated to get there without car.


I knew it was bad, I had forgot already that it was this much of a joke...
That does not even deserve the name "public transport"



> I don't think it's question of cleverness. It's just completely useless step.


Not for our politicians, but in terms of rational thinkingh. Yes.
I would only hope our neighbors are able to take it rationally and see that its nothing they have to care about as its just the regularely inner Austrian hilarious comedy theater called "politics". 



> It's quite an issue here. It was also in the TV news yesterday and all Slovak dailys informed about it. They all consider it as an offence and discrimination. It can cause a lot of problems since many people travel there from or to work, there are cultural events on both side of river with attendance from both banks and it's wierd to end them before 22:00. Another problem is it's just 30 metres form the end of the one way bridge on one way road where is not possible to turn your car without violating the law. What they protect those 30 metres?


Why don't we get those news here at all? We only can read in our Krone about how every one from the new member states is at least a car thief ... hno:


----------



## Qwert (Jun 25, 2006)

Slartibartfas said:


> I knew it was bad, I had forgot already that it was this much of a joke...
> That does not even deserve the name "public transport"


Yes, that public transport is like joke. From those villages is easier to get to Vienna than to Bratislava which is some 5 km from them.



Slartibartfas said:


> Not for our politicians, but in terms of rational thinkingh. Yes.
> I would only hope our neighbors are able to take it rationally and see that its nothing they have to care about as its just the regularely inner Austrian hilarious comedy theater called "politics".


I've said it, I consider it populistic step. It's sad, but it's true that you can acquire popularity by this.hno:



Slartibartfas said:


> Why don't we get those news here at all? We only can read in our Krone about how every one from the new member states is at least a car thief ... hno:


Well, everybody should definitely stop reading tabloids. IMO people who read them should not have right to vote at elections. Old Greeks would call them idiotés. For me is disgusting enough even when I see some commercial on tabloids on the TV.


----------



## Lankosher (Sep 12, 2004)

Originally Posted by maciek2000 

From polish subforum. more here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=192637


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Qwert said:


> Yes, that public transport is like joke. From those villages is easier to get to Vienna than to Bratislava which is some 5 km from them.


Why doesn't surprise me that?



> I've said it, I consider it populistic step. It's sad, but it's true that you can acquire popularity by this.hno:


Thats exactly what its all about, being a populistic step. Its not sure however that people who read the Krone will be satisfied by it as they may realize its fake nature. They may prefer the idea of reestablishing the iron curtain again hno: At least thats what I get sometimes the impression of.


----------



## Qwert (Jun 25, 2006)

Slartibartfas said:


> Why doesn't surprise me that?


It wouldn't be surprise before a couple of years, but now such things should be over.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Qwert said:


> It wouldn't be surprise before a couple of years, but now such things should be over.


Walls in the minds of the people survive a long time you must know...


----------



## Qwert (Jun 25, 2006)

Slartibartfas said:


> Walls in the minds of the people survive a long time you must know...


I know, even 20 years is not enough.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Qwert said:


> I know, even 20 years is not enough.


In an Austrian forum I read an interesting comment.

With the fall of the iron curtain and the reemergance of a Central Europe we have reached the state that was so common until 89 years ago: The peoples in a common borderless central Europe being eager in building (mental) walls...

The time when a real iron curtain caused people to demand a fall of those borders was nearly too achronistic to be true...


Hopefully this comment remains to be only cynism and not a fitting picture of reality.


----------



## Qwert (Jun 25, 2006)

Slartibartfas said:


> In an Austrian forum I read an interesting comment.
> 
> With the fall of the iron curtain and the reemergance of a Central Europe we have reached the state that was so common until 89 years ago: The peoples in a common borderless central Europe being eager in building (mental) walls...
> 
> ...


In the Iron courtain times, there were not so big problems with illegal immigration and so on in Austria. People were used to the world ending behind the courtain. But, this "luxurious" world disapperad from day to day. Austrians were probably the nation which life was changed most by fall of socialism, after socialistic countries of course. And many of those changes vere rather negative and very quick. But, this transformation era is very close to the end. The transformation of people's minds will, however, last for longer time.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Qwert said:


> In the Iron courtain times, there were not so big problems with illegal immigration and so on in Austria. People were used to the world ending behind the courtain. But, this "luxurious" world disapperad from day to day. Austrians were probably the nation which life was changed most by fall of socialism, after socialistic countries of course. And many of those changes vere rather negative and very quick. But, this transformation era is very close to the end. The transformation of people's minds will, however, last for longer time.


I agree to you that Austria has been effected heavily. But I want to add something:
The consequences in the public opinion have been rather negative, while in hard numbers and also the opinion of enterpreneurs (not only the large but also many small ones) it has been very postive. In fact in economic terms the last 15 years were a little success story for Austria. Especially Vienna profitated a lot. 

I can only hope that you are correct, that we will see in the years to come the transformation of people's minds. Hopefully I it will happen in my lifetime.


----------



## Qwert (Jun 25, 2006)

Slartibartfas said:


> I agree to you that Austria has been effected heavily. But I want to add something:
> The consequences in the public opinion have been rather negative, while in hard numbers and also the opinion of enterpreneurs (not only the large but also many small ones) it has been very postive. In fact in economic terms the last 15 years were a little success story for Austria. Especially Vienna profitated a lot.
> 
> I can only hope that you are correct, that we will see in the years to come the transformation of people's minds. Hopefully I it will happen in my lifetime.


Economically it was very positive. However, people are everywhere sensing rather nagative things. I hope as well their minds will change quickly. I think we must wait until the welfare and especially wages will be very similar in EU.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Qwert said:


> Economically it was very positive. However, people are everywhere sensing rather nagative things. I hope as well their minds will change quickly. I think we must wait until the welfare and especially wages will be very similar in EU.


Funnily it makes itself already to the news that in the meanwhile more Czech, Slovaks and Hungarians are going shopping to Austria than the other way round.

I am surprised to see that this has not collided with the prejudices Austrians still have. 

PS:
Does anyone know what is a nicer place to visit. Cesky Krumlov, Brno or Plzen?


----------



## vlker (Oct 30, 2007)

> PS:
> Does anyone know what is a nicer place to visit. Cesky Krumlov, Brno or Plzen?


Cesky krumlov is beautiful medieval town. I can recommend to you...But there's a mass of foreign tourists, especially Japanese and so on...so the best season could be winter, if you don't like crowds of tourists. Plzen is quite nice and there is the best beer i've had:cheers: But on the other hand, it's just a normal city with shiny city center. But if you like wine, I would recommend you Brno-it's capital of south moravia with many wineyards and cellars in the south of Brno and very nice country with canyons, caves and so on in the north.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

vlker said:


> Cesky krumlov is beautiful medieval town. I can recommend to you...But there's a mass of foreign tourists, especially Japanese and so on...so the best season could be winter, if you don't like crowds of tourists. Plzen is quite nice and there is the best beer i've had:cheers: But on the other hand, it's just a normal city with shiny city center. But if you like wine, I would recommend you Brno-it's capital of south moravia with many wineyards and cellars in the south of Brno and very nice country with canyons, caves and so on in the north.


Thats fine, Brno is the one of the three that is located closer than the other two. My former chemistry teacher was born in Brno as well.
I did not know about the wine though. I am surprised 

Cesky Krumlov sounds a bit like Salzburg... well Salzburg is not medieval but for the rest.


----------



## Qwert (Jun 25, 2006)

Slartibartfas said:


> Thats fine, Brno is the one of the three that is located closer than the other two. My former chemistry teacher was born in Brno as well.
> I did not know about the wine though. I am surprised


I didin't hear about wine exactly in Brno, but Brno is capital of Southern Moravia where is plenty of very good vineyards so I can only recommend to visit some cellars in countryside.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Qwert said:


> I didin't hear about wine exactly in Brno, but Brno is capital of Southern Moravia where is plenty of very good vineyards so I can only recommend to visit some cellars in countryside.


I am more of a beer drinker though  But I imagine that there doesn't exist a place in the entire Czech Republic which would be bad for beer drinkers 

I only know the Starobrno brand so far. You get it in Austria as well in some restaurants.


----------



## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

Slartibartfas said:


> I am more of a beer drinker though  But I imagine that there doesn't exist a place in the entire Czech Republic which would be bad for beer drinkers
> 
> I only know the Starobrno brand so far. You get it in Austria as well in some restaurants.


You dont know Kozel???hno:


----------



## Qwert (Jun 25, 2006)

Slartibartfas said:


> I am more of a beer drinker though  But I imagine that there doesn't exist a place in the entire Czech Republic which would be bad for beer drinkers
> 
> I only know the Starobrno brand so far. You get it in Austria as well in some restaurants.


Well, you can buy beer in every village, in every pub, but I thing that's possible in every country.



RawLee said:


> You dont know Kozel???hno:


And what about Pilsner and Budweisser, probably the most famous Czech brands?


----------



## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Qwert said:


> Well, you can buy beer in every village, in every pub, but I thing that's possible in every country.
> 
> 
> 
> And what about Pilsner and Budweisser, probably the most famous Czech brands?


Budwisser is not the American Budwiser to all you people out there.


----------



## Kampflamm (Dec 28, 2003)

It's actually Budweiser.


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

DanielFigFoz said:


> Budwisser is not the American Budwiser to all you people out there.


Did you used to be DFM our Portuguese friend?  

all those name changes :lol:


----------



## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

> It's actually Budweiser.


It is indeed, and I have a can in front of me as I write. :cheers:

Now, any pictures of the SI/HR border? I imagine it's pretty terrible. Especially in Portoroz... (Sorry I don't have that letter on my Germanocentric keyboard.)


----------



## Qwert (Jun 25, 2006)

Kampflamm said:


> It's actually Budweiser.


Oh sorry, in Czech republic it's Budějovický Budvar or shorter Budvar.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Qwert said:


> Oh sorry, in Czech republic it's Budějovický Budvar or shorter Budvar.


The brand label in Austria says "Budweiser-Budvar". Do they have a different brand label in the Czech Republic?


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

RawLee said:


> You dont know Kozel???hno:


Kozel, doesnt come from Brno, does it?
But no, I did not know that brand. I am not extremely educated about Bohemian beers. But I like Budweiser-Budvar and Pilsener Urquell. Starobrno is not among my favorites but not bad either.


----------



## Qwert (Jun 25, 2006)

Slartibartfas said:


> The brand label in Austria says "Budweiser-Budvar". Do they have a different brand label in the Czech Republic?


As far as I know, in Czech republic is used brand Budějovický Budvar. But, to be honest, I've never seen its bottle in Czech republic, only glass.:lol:












Slartibartfas said:


> Kozel, doesnt come from Brno, does it?
> But no, I did not know that brand. I am not extremely educated about Bohemian beers. But I like Budweiser-Budvar and Pilsener Urquell. Starobrno is not among my favorites but not bad either.


Full name of Kozel is Velkopopovický Kozel, so it's from Velké Popovice what is some 20 km from Prague.


----------



## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

[offtopic]^^ In some select resturants and pubs you might get it. I know at least two. Is Staropramen from CZ or SK?[/offtopic]


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

davidkunz/VIE said:


> [offtopic]^^ In some select resturants and pubs you might get it. I know at least two. Is Staropramen from CZ or SK?[/offtopic]


Google says its a beer from Prague, therefor I let you guess the country


----------



## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Hmmmmm, tough.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

davidkunz/VIE said:


> Hmmmmm, tough.


I grant you a telephone joker. You can ask this expert on geography ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juOQhTuzDQ0
(no, not the 5th grader boy, I mean of course the girl)


----------



## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Chriszwolle said:


> Did you used to be DFM our Portuguese friend?
> 
> all those name changes :lol:


That's me :cheers:


----------



## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Must be Europe then. But is Europe the capital of Prague? Or is it Bratislava?


Or even Portugl?


----------



## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

"Nah I think that in Japan they speak Urdu. In Mexico they speak Mexican and in... wait! I know what they speak in Prage! Afrikanns, of course! Why did'nt I think of that.

-----------------------

Anyway, like I said this is great news!


----------



## Lankosher (Sep 12, 2004)

^^
Aren't you guys going a bit off topic????


----------



## dhlennon (Dec 2, 2007)

very off-topic but beer is good (unless driving)


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

What was it about again... ?

Oh, Schenge. A great thing indeed.
I am looking forward already when the new member states are becoming true and full members with getting also the fundamental basic right of free movement after the border controls fell already.


----------



## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

Check this:
An austrian car was stopped few kms inside Hungary after Hegyeshalom. There were guns,3rd reich documents,SS-rings and a memorial medal issued on Hitler's birthday in 1945 in the car. The guy told the police he had a house in the Rábaköz area in Hungary. There,police had found a shotgun and 683 other types of guns. He didnt have permission for them. Experts say they are all older than 50 years,so he is now suspected with illegal possession of guns and cultural materials. He is in custody currently.


----------



## Kampflamm (Dec 28, 2003)

I told dad not to keep that stuff in his car. :rant:


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

RawLee said:


> Check this:
> An austrian car was stopped few kms inside Hungary after Hegyeshalom. There were guns,3rd reich documents,SS-rings and a memorial medal issued on Hitler's birthday in 1945 in the car. The guy told the police he had a house in the Rábaköz area in Hungary. There,police had found a shotgun and 683 other types of guns. He didnt have permission for them. Experts say they are all older than 50 years,so he is now suspected with illegal possession of guns and cultural materials. He is in custody currently.


Well, he can be lucky he has not been caught by the Austrian police. But if I think about it, it probably doesn't make a difference, as Austria will call for his extradition if Hungarian laws on this are not even harsher...


----------



## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

One can wonder,how long he has been doing this,if he managed to collect 683 guns in his house...


----------



## Raf11 (Dec 28, 2007)

RawLee said:


> One can wonder,how long he has been doing this,if he managed to collect 683 guns in his house...


Ask Kampflamm


----------



## Qwert (Jun 25, 2006)

RawLee said:


> One can wonder,how long he has been doing this,if he managed to collect 683 guns in his house...


Some people are collectiong stamps, some guns, some old nazi artefacts... People have various hobby.


----------



## Raf11 (Dec 28, 2007)

Qwert said:


> Some people are collectiong stamps, some guns, some old nazi artefacts... People have various hobby.


Right. Some people are planting grass f.e. What a world! You mustn't do this, you mustn't do that...


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

RawLee said:


> One can wonder,how long he has been doing this,if he managed to collect 683 guns in his house...


Depends on how clever he was to hide his activity.

But whats the point anyway? Its not like Austria would be the sole country who has to endure right extreme assholes.


----------



## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

Slartibartfas said:


> Depends on how clever he was to hide his activity.
> 
> But whats the point anyway? Its not like Austria would be the sole country who has to endure right extreme assholes.


Of course not! I've just posted this because I've found it funny you dont hear every day about a 58 year old grandpa' smuggling WWII weapons


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

RawLee said:


> Of course not! I've just posted this because I've found it funny you dont hear every day about a 58 year old grandpa' smuggling WWII weapons


Perhaps he wanted to conquer the east in a one man operation? A combination of seeing too many Goebbels movies and Rambo movies? :nuts:


----------



## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

*Swiss to enter EU no borders zone on December 12*
25 November 2008, 16:55 CET

(BRUSSELS) - Controls at the land borders between European Union nations and Switzerland will end on December 12, while controls at airports will stop on March 29, the EU's French presidency announced Tuesday.

The decision allowing Switzerland into Europe's Schengen passport-free zone will be formalised on Thursday at a meeting of EU interior ministers in Brussels, said a diplomat from France, which currently holds the bloc's rotating presidency.

Switzerland, which is not an EU member state, voted in a 2005 referendum to join the Schengen area.

It would become the 25th member of the zone, which also includes non-EU countries Iceland and Norway.

http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/1227626221.88


Welcome! :cheers:


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Welcome to Schengen Switzerland. The border controls sucked as hell anyway


----------



## Iemand (Aug 16, 2007)

Liechtenstein?


----------



## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

Not only enhance, but introduce! Seems like an awful waste of money to me. Implement Schengen border controls for a just few months...


----------



## Eddard Stark (Mar 31, 2008)

Timon91 said:


> That Switzerland is joining is good news. Only in 2002 they joined the UN, but I guess it's difficult for Switzerland to remain completely neutral in a world like this. This will mean that Austria and Germany have no control anymore at any of their borders :cheers:


Also France and Italy! For Italy it was kind of funny because part of the metropolitan area of Milan (extended) lies in Switzerland actually (Chiasso and surroundings)


----------



## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

There's control on the border between France and Andorra, as well as UK (Chunnel), not to mention Brazil and Suriname.  And San Marino controls its border with Italy every now and then.


----------



## Rijeka (Nov 11, 2007)

It will not be easy to blame the Swiss if they vote against free movement of workers when the EU does not want to apply it itself.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Rijeka said:


> It will not be easy to blame the Swiss if they vote against free movement of workers when the EU does not want to apply it itself.


What are you talking about?

The temporary limitations that are yet intact in a small number of memberstates? They are going to fall in a few years.


----------



## Rijeka (Nov 11, 2007)

Yes, precisely, I'm talking about that. A free movement of people is one of the essential elements of European integration, so I think this temporary restriction is not ok.


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

The Netherlands also restricts Bulgarians and Romanians from working limitless in our country.


----------



## Bahnsteig4 (Sep 9, 2005)

> A free movement of people is one of the essential elements of European integration, so I think this temporary restriction is not ok.


The alternative for these countries (BG/RO) would have been to join at a later date - would have made much more sense anyway.


----------



## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

Why would Switzerland have to allow BG&RO workers already now, when not all EU members allow them yet?


----------



## Timon91 (Feb 9, 2008)

Have Norway and Iceland got the same problem?


----------



## Rijeka (Nov 11, 2007)

I don't know, someone who knows should explain us!  But the EU justice commissioner, Jacques Barrot, said yesterday that Switzerland will have to leave Schengen in case they vote in the referendum against the freedom of movement of workers from RO and BG. So I really don't get it, why should they allow it, and not, say, Austria, Germany or the Netherlands?
But I'm really looking forward to CH entering the Schengen area!


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Rijeka said:


> I don't know, someone who knows should explain us!  But the EU justice commissioner, Jacques Barrot, said yesterday that Switzerland will have to leave Schengen in case they vote in the referendum against the freedom of movement of workers from RO and BG. So I really don't get it, why should they allow it, and not, say, Austria, Germany or the Netherlands?
> But I'm really looking forward to CH entering the Schengen area!


Germany Austria and as it seems Netherlands have temporary exemptions that will run out in a short time. 

The EU will not accept new exemptions. Switzerland agreed before to a deal that it in exchange for being allowed to join Schengen it will create freedom of movement. If Switzerland is not ready to hold what it promised, it will face the consequences.


----------



## ardmacha (Jun 24, 2007)

Shengen means that there are no border controls. This is not connected directly with whether they can take up employment in that country.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

ardmacha said:


> Shengen means that there are no border controls. This is not connected directly with whether they can take up employment in that country.


It is not directly connected, but it was part of the deal that Switzerland brokered with the EU. If Switzerland breaks that deal, you can't expect that the EU accepts to be fooled by them. If they break the deal, they can forget it, the entire one, ie also Schengen.


----------



## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

I think it's more us, Schengen countries (particularly Switzerland's neighbors), that want Switzerland in the Schengen area, rather than the other way around though.

PS: there's still gonna be control on the Swiss border, not of people, but of goods


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

ardmacha said:


> Shengen means that there are no border controls. This is not connected directly with whether they can take up employment in that country.


Schengen = Free movement op people, goods and capital. Schengen is way more than just border checks.



Slartibartfas said:


> Germany Austria and as it seems Netherlands have temporary exemptions that will run out in a short time.


3 years is not a short time. The public opinion is somewhat against the Poles, since we don't have proper housing for them (domestic rental housing is under high pressure), they live with a lot of people in one house/apartment, which sometimes gives problems. However, we need them, even with all the gastarbeiters our unemployment rates are still at record lows.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

> 3 years is not a short time. The public opinion is somewhat against the Poles, since we don't have proper housing for them (domestic rental housing is under high pressure), they live with a lot of people in one house/apartment, which sometimes gives problems. However, we need them, even with all the gastarbeiters our unemployment rates are still at record lows.


Well, whatever but its done after 3 years. Thats good, because the new member are full members. The freedoms are integral part of membership and a limitation of it can only be accepted in the way of transitional periods. Those periods will end in 3 years at the latest. Most member states have ended them already way before, but also the last reluctant ones have to end it in 3 years. 

Thats not a matter of discussion anymore, all states have voted in favor of admission of those countries. Thats all that has to be said in this regard.


----------



## earthJoker (Dec 15, 2004)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Schengen = Free movement op people, goods and capital. Schengen is way more than just border checks.


No, there will still be controls of good on the swiss border. There are several different agreements one is Schengen, then there is Dublin, the free movement of people. All of those Switzerland will now be part of, but not of free movement of goods.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Verso said:


> I think it's more us, Schengen countries (particularly Switzerland's neighbors), that want Switzerland in the Schengen area, rather than the other way around though.
> 
> PS: there's still gonna be control on the Swiss border, not of people, but of goods


[/quote]

Thats because they are not member of the single market for some weird reasons, but as they like. 

I would not be sure that the EU wants Switzerland more inside of Schengen than the other way round. Fact is there is a deal and if Switzerland breaks it, that deal is rendered meaningless and Switzerland can forget Schengen again.


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Noch immer LKW Staus an die Schweizer Grenze


----------



## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

Slartibartfas said:


> ^^ the drivers license in Slovenia is a personal ID card that is usable in the entire Schengen area as well? That would be cool.


No, only the Slovenian driver's license suffices in Slovenia, not Austrian.


----------



## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

Timon91 said:


> It would be nice if you drivers license would count as an ID in the Schengen area, but AFAIK that's not yet so. When I went from Austria to Germany in February (by train) there was a guy in my compartment that only had his drivers license with him. The custom officers didn't like that and was going to get fined, but he talked himself out of it :lol:


Once I forgot to take my passport (I didn't have an ID yet) to Zagreb. I wasn't thinking too much, b/c Zagreb is almost on the Slovenian border, so I kinda didn't think I was going "abroad" (Croats will kill me ). I only had my driver's license, but it's not enough. We went there by bus, and the driver then said to the border cops we were in a hurry to the Croatian parliament (where we actually went), so they didn't inspect us, and I got away with it. Last year I unintentionally entered Croatia illegally again.


----------



## Timon91 (Feb 9, 2008)

Verso again. Be glad you're still alive. Dangerous Croats


----------



## x-type (Aug 19, 2005)

Timon91 said:


> Verso again. Be glad you're still alive. Dangerous Croats


he is amateur. i have passed HR-SLO border at place where i think it was forbidden (i think it is only for local ppl with some special document which allows them to go there), without any documents, and i am not EU citizen. and it was night


----------



## Timon91 (Feb 9, 2008)

Hmm, let's think, my worst border issue: I crossed the Dutch-German border without any ID. If they ever find out I guess that I'll be locked up for 40 years


----------



## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

x-type said:


> he is amateur. i have passed HR-SLO border at place where i think it was forbidden (i think it is only for local ppl with some special document which allows them to go there), without any documents, and i am not EU citizen. and it was night


At least you were aware of the border. I, OTOH, thought Zagreb was in Slovenia. :lol:


----------



## paF4uko (Jul 12, 2008)

Verso said:


> Once I forgot to take my passport (I didn't have an ID yet) to Zagreb. I wasn't thinking too much, b/c Zagreb is almost on the Slovenian border, so I kinda didn't think I was going "abroad" (Croats will kill me ). I only had my driver's license, but it's not enough. We went there by bus, and the driver then said to the border cops we were in a hurry to the Croatian parliament (where we actually went), so they didn't inspect us, and I got away with it. Last year I unintentionally entered Croatia illegally again.


I often enter CRO without being checked when entering from SLO at the check point near Sečovlje - just a hand waving and "Sretan put". :cheers: On the other hand, when entering Croatia from Serbia the ID card check is compulsory.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Verso said:


> No, only the Slovenian driver's license suffices in Slovenia, not Austrian.


You misunderstood me. My question was if the Slovenian driver's license is also an ID, ie equivalent to a passport when traveling around within the Schengen area.


----------



## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

No, only in Slovenia.


----------



## Dan (Jun 16, 2007)

No driver license functions as a valid Schengen ID...only special national ID cards are ok for that.


----------



## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Dan1113 said:


> No driver license functions as a valid Schengen ID...only special national ID cards are ok for that.


Thats why I asked for clarification. But why is there no driver license that equally functions as national ID card?


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

^^ Actually, a drivers licence is enough as ID within the Netherlands. I never carry my passport with me within NL, but always my DL.


----------



## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

^^ Yes, but it's not valid outside of the Netherlands (except maybe in the rest of Benelux), that's what we're talking about. I think we're whirling. :nuts:


----------



## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

Verso said:


> ^^ Yes, but it's not valid outside of the Netherlands (except maybe in the rest of Benelux), that's what we're talking about. I think we're whirling. :nuts:


Well,then whats the point of it at all? A driver licence is valid all over the planet(AFAIK),and if it is equals an ID in a country,why isnt it good in an other? And this is especially true in the EU,where all such documents/cards are standardised,so the same...


----------



## paF4uko (Jul 12, 2008)

RawLee said:


> And this is especially true *in the EU,where all such documents/cards are standardised,so the same*...


Well they are not quite the same... In some countries you have the big rose sheet, and in others the driving licence is just a small card.


----------



## ufonut (Jul 24, 2007)

Poland:

National ID card - suitable for Schengen travel











Driver's licence - cannot cross Schengen borders using it alone


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

paF4uko said:


> Well they are not quite the same... In some countries you have the big rose sheet, and in others the driving licence is just a small card.


Those pink sheets are old. (I have them too), and the new card is a new system which should be implemented in all EU countries.


----------



## paF4uko (Jul 12, 2008)

^^ We have the same model for ID card and driving licence in Bulgaria, but in France and many other EU countries the driving licence looks like this:










P.S: Chris, I thought it was up to the country to choose one of the models... :cheers:


----------



## Timon91 (Feb 9, 2008)

^^I think that this is what the old Dutch DL looked like as well. A new DL looks like a creditcard.


----------



## PLH (Mar 9, 2007)

^^ Ahh, remeber that one too


----------



## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Interestingly, the Netherlands is the biggest investor in Romania.


----------



## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

MrAkumana said:


> Let's focus on what's actually going on on the real world: I have been to the land border posts of Hungary (EU-Schengen) with Romania (EU-non Schengen). What kind of checks are needed for a UE citizen to cross from Romania into Hungary and the Schengen area? This: You show your ID or Passport, the guy in charge sees your face and let's your car pass the border into the Schengen area (from time to time ask to open the your trunk and takes a quick look). Ohhh, Big deal! I honestly can't see what difference could it actually make if Romania and Bulgaria were already part of Schengen.


They usually don't bother you, if you're an EU citizen (including Romanians and Bulgarians), but they will check you, if you're from Iran, for example.


----------



## bogdymol (Feb 4, 2010)

ChrisZwolle said:


> In reality, the border controls are a joke anyway, so getting Romania and Bulgaria into Schengen will de-facto not change much.


+1

Speaking from my own experience of crossing the Romania/Hungary border point I can tell that in the last 2-3 years there were 3 main control types I have encountered at the border:

they just waved me to cross without any check (rare situation)
they look at the ID card, but not always at your face... it takes 5 seconds (most of the cases)
besides looking at the ID card they ask you "Where are you going?"... any answer is the correct one (also rare situation)

More, at the Hungary/Croatia and Croatia/Slovenia border crossing the situation was the same (just ID check)... and Croatia is not even an EU member.

The main point is that if a bad guy wants to go to Western Europe to break the law he can do this efortless with or without Romania in Schengen space.


----------



## mcarling (Nov 1, 2008)

In my experience, it seems like the main reason for checks along the eastern external border of the Schengen Zone is to provide the customs officers with an opportunity to collect bribes. I've never seen them show any interest any anything other than bribes.


----------



## Le Clerk (Oct 22, 2007)

Verso said:


> They usually don't bother you, if you're an EU citizen (including Romanians and Bulgarians), but they will check you, if you're from Iran, for example.


I had the same experience when travelling through Schengen, Slovenia included.


----------



## YU-AMC (Jan 27, 2008)

Do they get any Iranians travelling to Western EU via Balkans via E75? Don't they just fly? I am not quite sure if it is true, but I have been told there is a frien from Belgrade to Theran via IST. lol


----------



## GROBIN (Feb 27, 2011)

^^

Well, as I see each week a lot of lorries in the Northwestern part of the Paris region (near Éragny-sur-Oise), not all Iranians fly ! :lol:


----------



## Christophorus (May 22, 2009)

The Principality of Liechtenstein today became a full member of Schengen treaty.

Article in German though:

http://www.vaterland.li/index.cfm?id=92277&source=sda&ressort=home


----------



## GCarty (Dec 4, 2010)

Le Clerk said:


> Actually, only the Netherlands is still opposing (Finland has recently announced it will not oppose anymore), the reason being Geert Wilders.


I presume that Wilders isn't against Romania per se, but sees it is a potential weak link that if it joined Schengen would allow more Muslim immigrants to reach the Netherlands?


----------



## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

bogdymol said:


> More, at the Hungary/Croatia and Croatia/Slovenia border crossing the situation was the same (just ID check)... and Croatia is not even an EU member.


Back in 2004 at Slovenia-Croatia crossing they gave a loong suspicious look at me and my ID card... maybe just because back then I had taliban-style beard


----------



## Le Clerk (Oct 22, 2007)

bogdymol said:


> +1
> 
> Speaking from my own experience of crossing the Romania/Hungary border point I can tell that in the last 2-3 years there were 3 main control types I have encountered at the border:
> 
> ...


Actually, if you follow the news, there are weekly reports on border guards seizing trasspassers at the border with Ukraine and Moldova, most being Afghans, Iraqis, Pakistanis. I would say most are already stopped at the already eastern EU borders before reaching the Schengen borders.


----------



## LG_ (Feb 25, 2009)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Interestingly, the Netherlands is the biggest investor in Romania.


As alredy said and obviously the reason for that is not economical! Well I do belive that your PM will son surrender!


----------



## bogdymol (Feb 4, 2010)

GCarty said:


> I presume that Wilders isn't against Romania per se, but sees it is a potential weak link that if it joined Schengen would allow more Muslim immigrants to reach the Netherlands?


The Romanian Muslim population is negligible. Most of them live in Dobrogea and they usually don't do anything bad. We even have a muslim guy on Romanian part of SSC and he's ok 



Le Clerk said:


> Actually, if you follow the news, there are weekly reports on border guards seizing trasspassers at the border with Ukraine and Moldova, most being Afghans, Iraqis, Pakistanis. I would say most are already stopped at the already eastern EU borders before reaching the Schengen borders.


I live in a border zone, so even the local news show how the Romanian border patrol officers catch the immigrants. I would like to add one thing: most of those Afghans, Iraqis, African etc. immigrants enter Romania legaly (they have obtained Romanian visa, but not Schengen visa), and they want to cross the border ilegaly into Schengen. *Why is our country giving visas so easy?*


----------



## kamadeva (Mar 2, 2010)

bogdymol said:


> *Why is our country giving visas so easy?*


I think most are refugees since the UN has a shelter(or more?)in western Romania.


----------



## GROBIN (Feb 27, 2011)

bogdymol said:


> (...) *Why is our country giving visas so easy?*


Maybe because Romania needs desperately hands to work ! (all gone to the West ...)

P.S.: I thought Liechtenstein was already part of the Schengen zone (as neighboring Austria & Switzerland already are ...


----------



## bogdymol (Feb 4, 2010)

kamadeva said:


> I think most are refugees since the UN has a shelter(or more?)in western Romania.


I mostly hear at the news that they entered legally in my country. We have a shelter for UN refugees, but there are a lot more persons trying to cross the border illegaly than UN refugees.



GROBIN said:


> Maybe because Romania needs desperately hands to work ! (all gone to the West ...)


No, this is not the problem. We usually don't import work force. There are a lot of unemployed people searching for a job here.



GROBIN said:


> P.S.: I thought Liechtenstein was already part of the Schengen zone (as neighboring Austria & Switzerland already are ...


No, it was not part of Schengen. One courios thing: the Switzerland/Liechtenstein border crossing was just surveiled by video cameras (no border police booths), but Liechtenstein/Austria border was with permanent checks. So if you wanted to go directly from A to FL you were checked, but you could avoid this driving through CH


----------



## GROBIN (Feb 27, 2011)

^^

Maybe Andorra will follow ? Has anyone read about such plans anywhere ?

P.S.: I'm very curious how the situation will look in the BIH Neum enclave when Croatia enters the EU ...


----------



## pobre diablo (Mar 2, 2010)

GROBIN said:


> ^^
> 
> Maybe Andorra will follow ? Has anyone read about such plans anywhere ?
> 
> P.S.: I'm very curious how the situation will look in the BIH Neum enclave when Croatia enters the EU ...


Neum is not an enclave. More like Croatia has an exclave south of Neum. Croatia wanted to build a bridge/overpass in Neum so that it's citizens can travel without entering BIH.


----------



## Zanovijetalo (Jan 4, 2007)

^ Left coalition just won the elections here, and that bridge will not be built.


----------



## darko06 (Nov 20, 2009)

This is an excerpt from the layout of Accession treaty, dated September 13, 2011, page 155-156, regarding Neum corridor:

"IV. NEUM
31997 L 0078: Council Directive 97/78/EC of 18 December 1997 laying down the principles
governing the organisation of veterinary checks on products entering the Community from third countries (OJ L 24, 30.1.1998, p. 9).
Article 1 is replaced by the following:
"Article 1
1. Veterinary checks on products from third countries introduced into one of the territories listed
in Annex I shall be carried out by Member States in accordance with this Directive and with
Regulation (EC) No 882/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 29 April
2004 on official controls performed to ensure the verification of compliance with feed and
food law, animal health and animal welfare rules(1).
2. By way of derogation from paragraph 1, consignments of products coming from the territory
of Croatia and transiting through the territory of Bosnia and Herzegovina at Neum ('Neum
corridor') before re-entering the territory of Croatia via the points of entry at Klek or Zaton
Doli, may be exempted from the veterinary checks, subject to compliance with the following
requirements:
AC 31/11 AK/sb 156
DG K 2 LIMITE EN
(a) Croatia must have in place on or before the date of accession points of entry to the north
and south of the Neum corridor that are equipped, staffed and prepared to ensure
compliance with the requirements of this paragraph;
(b) Croatia must ensure that:
(i) only closed vehicles are used for transporting the consignments;
(ii) vehicles transporting consignments are sealed with uniquely numbered seals before
transiting the Neum corridor;
(iii) a register is made, detailing which numbered seals have been attached to which
vehicles, which allows for the necessary controls;
(iv) the date and time of leaving and re-entering the territory of Croatia of the vehicles
transporting consignments are recorded, so that the total time of transit can be
calculated.
(c) Croatia shall ensure that consignment must not be allowed to re-enter its territory
where:
(i) a vehicle's seal has been broken or replaced during transiting the Neum corridor;
and/or
(ii) the total time of transit considerably exceeds the acceptable total time of transit,
given the total distance of transit unless the competent authority has carried out an
assessment of the risks to animal and public health and has adopted effective,
proportionate and targeted measures based on that assessment.
(d) Croatia must regularly and as necessary inform the Commission of any non-compliance
with the requirements of point (b) and of the measures it has taken under point (c).
(e) Where necessary, a decision to suspend or withdraw the derogation from paragraph 1
shall be adopted in accordance with the procedure laid down in Article 29.
(f) Where necessary, detailed rules for the application of this paragraph may be adopted in
accordance with the procedure laid down in Article 29.' "


----------

