# The Electric Car Revolution is on



## Concrete Stereo

^^ The Europe electricity network is one network these days - if Denmark has a peak in demand, trough Germany it buys electricity from the Netherlands. Apart from that, electric charging will mostly be done at night at home (it's most convenient and cheap), in the hours of low power demand, and can be programmed. I don't think the electricity production will be the bottle neck


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## AltinD

^^ Of course it is a integrated net but still it can't support e sudden peak of demand in just a few years. And the time of re-charge is irrelevant when we're talking about the overall requirements from the net.

Keep in mind that the rush to introduce electric vehicles by the EU manufacturers is MOSTLY to meet the stringer (combined) fleet emission standarts to enter in force in 2012. Why do you think Aston Martin is planning to introduce it's version of the Toyota IQ?


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## Concrete Stereo

Introducing electric cars in 2011-2012 means years will pass before they'll be around in significant numbers - say 10%. Personally I don't think the European net will have any problems following the demand.


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## The E.N.D

South Africa's electric car,the Joule.


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## VelesHomais

I'm not too worried about electricity supplies, there's really no reason why new Nuclear Power Plants can't be built. In fact, Ukraine is building two new nuclear reactors right now, in addition to 15 existing ones. 22 more will be built by 2030, according to an adopted state program. Once again, there's no danger anymore, not more than other power plants, anyhow. 

It's simple, everyone has to start building more Nuclear Power Plants and start investing heavily into Wind and Solar energy, which will compliment and ease the transition. Both Wind and Solar Energy can produce all the energy we will ever need, alone by each other. Advances in Solar Energy batteries are also now rising increasingly fast.


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## Remolino

Thing is will electric motors have the power to move autos or trucks up steep hills.

Found a UK. inventor who is trying to perfect a steam engine for autos. It is called the Barrett Steam Engine. It produces PSI of over 1500 at temperatures of over 900 F. They say Steam Engines are better then other types of engines or motors when it comes to power.


Video of the Barrett Steam Engine in an auto - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOsEYpIQomE&NR=1

Video of it the engine actually moving the auto - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aywIVjUyIFc&NR=1


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## ThatDarnSacramentan

^^ That's actually very interesting. It's taking something from history and touching it up for the future. After all, there are cars from the start of the 20th Century that run on steam. Jay Leno has some in his massive car collection.


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## Turknology

Get Smart said:


> easier said than done, how will you get the electricity, fuel/gas/coal needs to be burned to get the power. solar electricity is not enough at the moment, neither is hydro electric to power all the cars.


Russkies have been contracted to build nuclear power plants in Turkey


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## Turknology

Remolino said:


> Thing is will electric motors have the power to move autos or trucks up steep hills.
> 
> Found a UK. inventor who is trying to perfect a steam engine for autos. It is called the Barrett Steam Engine. It produces PSI of over 1500 at temperatures of over 900 F. They say Steam Engines are better then other types of engines or motors when it comes to power.
> 
> 
> Video of the Barrett Steam Engine in an auto - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOsEYpIQomE&NR=1
> 
> Video of it the engine actually moving the auto - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aywIVjUyIFc&NR=1


I don't see electrically powered motors to be used in commercial vehicles in the near future.

one step at a time.


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## VelesHomais

Electric trucks are coming out around 2012-2013


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## Turknology

^^

will they be able to deal with the load?


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## VelesHomais

I assume so  batteries from three years into the future are going to be far more efficient


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## Turknology

VelesHomais said:


> I assume so  batteries from three years into the future are going to be far more efficient


I just can't see electric powered trucks pulling trailers full of tons of goods for now.


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## VelesHomais

Why not? About 10% of all trucks are going to be fully electric by 2020, if not more. The rest hybrids of various kinds. Even today electric trucks are starting to rapidly become a reality


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## VelesHomais

Freightliner Taps Tesla To Build an Electric Truck










The technology underpinning the sexy Tesla Roadster is showing up in the last place you’d expect to find it — a truck.

The Silicon Valley automaker is providing the batteries Freightliner Custom Chassis is putting in the electric trucks it will have on the road next year. Freightliner has offered CNG and hybrid electric trucks for years and it’s about to start selling a hydraulic hybrid. It says electrics are the logical next step.

“We’re trying to drive some of the revolution within the commercial sector,” says Jonathan Randall, director of sales and marketing. “The is one more arrow in our quiver to make sure we’re following the technology and providing what our customers want.”

We’ve said it before, but it bears repeating — fleets are a perfect application for electric vehicles. The vehicles follow set routes, so range isn’t a problem. They’re kept at centralized depots, making recharging a breeze. Yes, EVs cost more up front, but they’re cheaper to operate — Freightliner says its electric rig will save $15,000 a year in fuel and maintenance costs. Ford recognizes this as well, which is one reason it’s rolling out the light-duty Transit Connect Electric van at the end of the year.

Freightliner already builds a lot of the delivery trucks — called walk-in vans — you see trundling around town. It essentially took the chassis from one of those trucks, the MT-45, and swapped the engine and transmission for a motor and a really big battery.

Enova provided the motor, which produces 120 kilowatts peak power (about 160 horsepower) and 45 kilowatts (about 60 horsepower) continuous. The controller and charger also came from Enova. The juice comes from batteries made by Tesla Motors.

The pack is comprised of three 18.5 kilowatt-hour modules for a total of 55.5 kilowatt hours. That’s good for “somewhere north of 100 miles range,” says Mike Stark, who leads Freightliner’s alt fuel efforts. He says “somewhere north” because the truck is still being tested. Need more range? Add more modules to the pack. Stark says the truck can handle as many as five, which would provide a staggering 92.5 kilowatts.

“We can add and deduct packs to suit the customers needs and budget,” Stark said.

The battery is essentially the same as the Roadster’s 53 kilowatt-hour pack. Each module contains 2,000 cells and weighs 300 pounds. The cells are the same kind you’ll find in your laptop — 18650 lithium cobalt oxide. Plug the truck into a 220-volt line and it’s good to go in six to eight hours.

All of the components fit between the frame rails and what would be the engine compartment in a conventional truck, so there’s no loss in cargo space or capacity. The electric van will have a 2,500-pound payload. Although the battery pack weighs 900 pounds, Stark says the electric drivetrain is lighter than the engine and transmission it replaced.

Freightliner Custom Chassis is a subsidiary of Daimler, which bought a stake in Tesla Motors almost a year ago, so you might this was a sweetheart deal for Tesla. Not so, says Stark. Tesla’s pack ran the testing gauntlet alongside those of several other manfacturers and came out on top fair and square.

“We talked to Tesla because of the relationship with Daimler,” Stark said. “But we also found they offered the best energy density for the price and the packaging. We believe they provide the best product for our application.”

No one’s discussing terms of the deal — Tesla didn’t return a call seeking comment — but whatever they are, Tesla’s gotta be happy because it brings in additional revenue. The company also is providing the batteries Daimler is using in its electric Smart ForTwo.

Freightliner plans to wrap up testing soon and have the truck rolling off an assembly line by the middle of next year. No one’s saying how many it might build — “Whatever the market will bear” is all Randall would say. But, he said, Freightliner has already booked its first order.

Photo: Freightliner Custom Chassis

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/03/freightliner-taps-tesla-to-build-an-electric-truck/


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## Turknology

I was thinking more in the line of


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## VelesHomais

I understand, but can we really judge the near-future potential of electric trucks by comparing the very first electric trucks at the very beginning of a true electric car revolution? No, we can only look at them as indicators that there's nothing that's impossible.


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## Turknology

VelesHomais said:


> I understand, but can we really judge the near-future potential of electric trucks by comparing the very first electric trucks at the very beginning of a true electric car revolution? No, we can only look at them as indicators that there's nothing that's impossible.


I'm just saying that electrically powered motors will be used in private vehicles and not commercial ones, commercial ones will continue to use petroleum based fuels, only after electrical motors are advanced enough will they replace conventional engines in commercial vehicles.


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## VelesHomais

Actually... we may be closer to that target than I thought

All-Electric Drayage Truck (Balqon)

The heavy-duty electric short-haul drayage truck -- the first of its kind at any port worldwide -- can pull a 60,000-pound cargo container.

Already operational in San-Francisco port.


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## VelesHomais

Turknology said:


> I'm just saying that electrically powered motors will be used in private vehicles and not commercial ones, commercial ones will continue to use petroleum based fuels, only after electrical motors are advanced enough will they replace conventional engines in commercial vehicles.


I'm not so sure about that, there are plenty of electric cars coming out now for exclusively commercial use.


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## VelesHomais

*Ford unveils long awaited 2011 Transit Connect Electric van*























































http://www.gizmag.com/ford-transit-connect-electric-taxi/14247/picture/110969/


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## VelesHomais

The SCiB™ – or Super Charge ion Battery – is a rechargeable lithium-ion battery that boasts minimal capacity loss even after 6,000 charge-discharge cycles, high levels of safety and rapid charging capability with the *ability to charge to 90 percent of capacity in as fast as 5 minutes*

Electric vehicles face a road block in the form of battery technology and we can expect to see lots of news in this space in coming years as huge companies throw resources into finding a solution to battery range and recharging times. One of the promising candidates for improving battery performance is Toshiba's SCiB technology. The company has now announced that it's working with Mitsubishi Motors to fast track the development of these batteries for EV applications.

The SCiB™ – or Super Charge ion Battery – is a rechargeable lithium-ion battery that boasts minimal capacity loss even after 6,000 charge-discharge cycles, high levels of safety and rapid charging capability with the ability to charge to 90 percent of capacity in as fast as 5 minutes.

For EV applications Toshiba has developed a new anode material and a new electrolyte to improve safety and rapid recharging. According to Toshiba, the long life will promote reduction in the waste that results from battery replacement, reducing the impact on the environment.

The SCiB will also be used for electric bicycles, electric motorcycles and for power storage in a microgrid system.

Toshiba will begin production next year at Kashiwazaki Operations, a new facility in Niigata prefecture.

More info at Toshiba's SCiB website.









http://www.gizmag.com/toshiba-fast-tracks-scib-battery-technology/15667/picture/117526/


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## 回回

Fisker Karma, they are taking orders in the US this November, with deliveries beginning March/April 2011. It has a 80km electric range and costs $90,000.
















Convertible version, not available yet.









Aqua, a recently-built residential tower in Chicago that has charging station for electric cars, the first in the Midwestern US.


回回;51053131 said:


> _image hosted on *flickr*_


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## I-275westcoastfl

Honestly I'd rather have the US build more cars that run on diesel until battery technology catches up.


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## iloveasia

I think China is the biggest player in this field as they are the ones who are going to manufacture thousands of these and so reducing the cost. Also in China pebble ed nuclear technology is being developed and this is incredibly safe and takes a very long time for a meltdown to occur and is estimated to be commercially viable within 5 years or so.


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## VelesHomais

The new technology is right around the corner.


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## AltinD

... right, just needs more time (i.e. decades) to be tested, perfected and become viable for widespread use.


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## Innsertnamehere

*LINCOLN OFFERS 2011 MKZ HYBRID AT SAME PRICE AS GAS MODEL*











Hybrids normally carry a price premium over conventional gasoline models in vehicles where both options are offered. The new 2011 Lincoln MKZ Hybrid, however, has been priced at $35,180 (including destination), identical to that of the Lincoln MKZ V-6.

Read more: http://wot.motortrend.com/6667702/g...s-gas-model-at-35180/index.html#ixzz0uWP4yiTs

"Lincoln is about delivering luxury standard," said John Felice, general manager of Ford and Lincoln marketing. "Whether it's our new MKX with standard MyLincoln Touch technology or the no-cost choice of a gas or hybrid powertrain with the Lincoln MKZ, we want to give customers premium amenities with unexpected value."

With this announcement, Lincoln has become the first automaker to offer a hybrid powertrain for the same price as its conventional gasoline counterpart. Ford's Fusion is offered with a less expensive I-4 gas engine, but the Fusion Hybrid is priced even higher than the petrol V-6. Additionally, Lincoln undercut the pricing of the Lexus HS 250h, the MKZ Hybrid's closest competition, by $345.

In another blow to its competition, the Lincoln MKZ's 41/36/39 mpg (city/highway/combined) rating outdoes the HS 250h's. It eclipses the HS 250h by 6 city mpg, 2 highway mpg, and 4 mpg combined. The MKZ Hybrid's impressive fuel economy is due to its Atkinson cycle 2.5-liter I-4 coupled to an electric motor and mated to an electronic CVT. Total power output from the system is 191 horsepower.

Look for the 2011 Lincoln MKZ Hybrid to hit dealerships this fall.

source: motor trend website


thought this was important in the intergration of hybrids........


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## seattle92

VelesHomais said:


> New York has opened it's first public charging station, 100 more will be set up in the next 12 months. How many, if any, do your cities have? I know Israel wants to be completely covered with them in just 3 years, they expect to abandon gas powered cars by 2020. Hawaii has similar goals.


There are already some charging stations in Lisbon and in July of 2011 Portugal will have stations in all big/medium cities.

It's a big thing here, and Portugal will be the first (or one of the first) to have a complete network all over the country.

There is also a Renault/Nissan battery factory being built at this moment.


There are some objectives in terms of electric car percenteges for 2020, but i don't remember the numbers. The state is going to give the example and buy electric cars instead of the others.


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## VelesHomais

I wonder if there is a list of all charging stations per country. I didn't know that Portugal had such ambitious plans.


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## nomarandlee

I smell fear in this thread :colgate:

Even though not about electric cars a good milestone on the hybrid car front. 



> http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/aut...will-offer-hybrid-at-same-price-as-gas-model/
> 
> Ford will offer hybrid at same price as gas model
> 
> By DEE-ANN DURBIN, AP Auto Writer
> 
> DEARBORN, Mich. – For the first time, an American automaker plans to sell a hybrid car for the same, lower price as its gas-powered counterpart, removing at least one obstacle for drivers who want a greener ride.
> 
> At a little more than $35,000, the 2011 Lincoln MKZ sedan won't be cheap, but the decision by Ford to match the prices of the two styles could lead competitors to follow suit with future models.
> 
> The hybrid MKZ, debuting this fall and running on both gas and electric power, will be a bargain after factoring in savings at the pump. It gets more than double the mileage of the traditional version in city driving.
> 
> While automakers won't reveal what they spend to install a hybrid system in a car, the final product usually costs several thousand dollars more than a gas-powered version of the same car.
> 
> The Lexus HS 250h, the MKZ's closest competitor, costs about $2,500 more than the Lexus IS, a similar, small, gas-powered sedan. Ford charges $8,840 more for the hybrid version of its Ford Escape SUV.
> 
> The MKZ can still make money even if Lincoln doesn't charge more for the hybrid, said Erich Merkle, president of the consulting company Autoconomy.com. Luxury cars are sold at a significant premium, he said, ensuring a profit for Ford.
> 
> Lincoln can also borrow the hybrid system from the Ford Fusion, its corporate twin, and save on development costs.
> 
> "Conventional wisdom is that the hybrid should be priced higher, but there's not really anything to say that a hybrid has to command a higher price," Merkle said.
> 
> Besides, Ford had to keep the price down, said Jessica Caldwell, an analyst for Edmunds.com. If it had sold for more than $40,000, it would have faced tougher competition from luxury cars like the Mercedes E-Class or the Audi A6, she said.
> 
> "It's going to take moves like this one to break into the luxury market," she said................


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## Mr.Kittehs

imma be imma be immaimma imma be imma be drivin and electruc car someday.


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## Innsertnamehere

i just posted that, but ya, it is a pretty big milestone in integrating hybrids.....


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## nomarandlee

Innsertnamehere said:


> i just posted that, but ya, it is a pretty big milestone in integrating hybrids.....


Good info. I have an appointment with the eye doctor this weekend. :lol:


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## VelesHomais

That Lincoln looks like a pretty good deal.


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## 2co2co

This EV takes only 1 minute to "re-charge"
http://www.triplepundit.com/2010/04/better-place-starts-electric-vehicle-battery-swap-in-japan/
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/05/better-place/

The major advantage of this system is that when there is a technological progress in secondary battery, you immediately get the benefit. Another possibility is that extremely energy-dense (i.e. Al-air battery) one-off primary battery becomes an additional option.

This article is saying that inductive wireless charging is a threat to Better Place's battery swap, but I don't see why they are mutually exclusive
http://green.venturebeat.com/2009/1...could-leave-coulomb-better-place-in-the-dust/

But the current issue is that auto makers are very reluctant on limiting their designs to make fit for this. I want to go to Roppongi to actually see this, but can't be asked to pay for Shinkansen/bus ticket just for this.


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## mopc

AltinD said:


> Yes sure, couse countries can increase their energy production just like that. Most of the countries are struggling to meet the current energyu demand, and you think they can absorb the demand for cars in just a few years.


This doesn't make sense; the amount of energy spent to extract and process oil and far greater than that of producing electricity, you just have to diverge the energy used in oil wells and refineries to producing electricity and there will be energy to spare.


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## mopc

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Honestly I'd rather have the US build more cars that run on diesel until battery technology catches up.


Investing in fossil fuels is now is insane no matter how you look at it. Battery technology has already caught up, in fact it did so 10, 15 years ago, it's just a matter of scale economy for them to be cheap, since production is limited. Adopting battery cars right now is the only way to do this.


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## VelesHomais

Some people are intimidated by the future



















Commercially available solar panels now reach 19% efficiency. In the laboratories efficiency is already at 40% but producing such panels isn't financially viable *yet*. In the more distant future we may actually have cars working on direct sun energy conversion, at least partially. But before that happens we'll have every charging station supplemented by solar energy panels (also in the future, but not as distant).

*Solar Powered charging station in Singapore*



















Singapore’s green industry has been given another boost.

The first electric vehicle (EV) charging station that harnesses energy solely from the sun was launched yesterday.

It traps sunlight using four roof-mounted panels to generate an average of 3.15kwh a day – enough to charge four electric scooters a day.

Located at the Singapore Polytechnic, the $30,000 standalone station is an expansion of Greenlots, a network of charging spots for EVs being built here by Singapore-based green energy company Zeco Systems.

There are currently four Greenlots: at Ikea’s outlets in Tampines and Alexandra Road, at the Insead campus and at the Swiss Club. But these tap into Singapore’s main power grid.

While Singapore is keen to embark on viable green technology, the enthusiasm for EVs seems to be taking a long time to transform into reality.

Only three electric scooters, each costing about $8,000, have been sold since they were launched here in January.

“Consumers are not buying EVs because of the lack of places to charge them,” said Mr Jan Croeni, managing director of Zeco Systems.

“Infrastructure is also not being set up because of the low demand for EVs,” he added, calling it a “chicken-and-egg issue”.

Agreeing, chairman of the Sustainable Energy Association of Singapore (SEAS) Edwin Khew cited the example of cars using compressed natural gas (CNG).

“CNG is cheaper but the problem was a lack of infrastructure. There were only two filling stations until the new one opened at Old Toh Tuck Road near Jurong East recently. Before it did, the lines of cars waiting to fill up were long,” he said.

There are currently about 4,200 CNG vehicles here.

Mr Croeni said his company hoped to launch more Greenlots as part of Singapore’s Green Plan 2012.

Source : By Judith Tan (The Straits Times, Tuesday, August 18, 2009)

Image : iCars Singapore

http://www.maple3.com/2009/08/22/singapore-gets-its-first-solar-powered-charging-station/


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## I-275westcoastfl

mopc said:


> Investing in fossil fuels is now is insane no matter how you look at it. Battery technology has already caught up, in fact it did so 10, 15 years ago, it's just a matter of scale economy for them to be cheap, since production is limited. Adopting battery cars right now is the only way to do this.


Not exactly.. we will be quite dependent on fossil fuels for at least another 20 years minimum a massive switch like this will not happen overnight. Until then we should focus on the best alternatives we can like hybrids and diesel.


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## VelesHomais

If we don't start switching now, it won't happen in 20 years either, or even in 40 years. It's vital to start now. Anyway, what's the point of even discussing this, all major car manufacturers have begun making the switch, there's no stopping now.


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## mic of Orion

VelesHomais said:


> Whatever you think of electric cars doesn't matter, the fact of the matter is that 2010 marks the year of the beginning of the Electric Car Revolution. Every major and minor car manufacturing company is releasing an electric car this and next year, with a hundred more models becoming a reality in just two years. Charging stations are popping up in every country and their numbers will rise exponentially. Battery capacity is expected to rise by 1000% thanks to nanotech breakthroughs.
> 
> Let us monitor and discuss this inevitable and overall positive revolution.
> 
> Some existing problems to overcome:
> * Average range of a single charge is at 110 miles or 177 km.
> * A single charge from your regular home outlet will take as much as 6 to 9 hours. Although a new boosted charging stations does the job in 30 minutes. These numbers are expected to drop substantially in the coming years.
> * In the next few years electric cars will only be convenient for those that have their own garage or a large parking lot equipped with electric charges. The latter is unlikely now but will change in just a few years, France is planning to enact a law that starting 2012 all residential complex parking lots are to be equipped with electric charging stations.
> * Electric cars don't solve environmental problems just yet, because much of electricity is generated by coal power plants. However, this is easily remedied by building more Nuclear and Solar power plants. Fusion power reactors will soon be tested, in the future easily providing most of our energy needs.
> 
> To kick start the thread here's Aptera, the weird electric car that offers the least resistance to air. About 5000 of these have been pre-ordered in the United States :
> 
> 
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> 
> NOTE: Most electric cars look like regular cars, not futuristic space ships.
> 
> Post anything related to electric cars here. Hopefully I'm not the only one excited


brilliant thread pan. 

on a side note, did you become a liberal in past few years ? 

I always got you bit conservative side, at least from days of EE.


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## mic of Orion

Croatian made electric car, production started with corporate and private orders mounting to some 1500 vehicles in first 6 months. Manufacturer is looking for investors, lack of money prevents full blown serial production and major exports.


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## VelesHomais

mic of Orion said:


> brilliant thread pan.
> 
> on a side note, did you become a liberal in past few years ?
> 
> I always got you bit conservative side, at least from days of EE.


I am not into the liberal/conservative labeling, as far as the environment goes I'm as green as Irish plains.


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## mopc

I-275westcoastfl said:


> Not exactly.. we will be quite dependent on fossil fuels for at least another 20 years minimum a massive switch like this will not happen overnight. Until then we should focus on the best alternatives we can like hybrids and diesel.


Im all for hybrids, and I agree that we will be dependent on oil for 20 years or likely much more, but the technology to make the change already exists.


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## VelesHomais

I don't know if I should create a solar energy thread, doubt that it will be _sustainable_, so here's a little offtopic diversion

Sunseeker II, fully solar energy powered manned American airplane









It's not commercially viable today, instead it's a glimpse into the future, when battery and solar panels efficiency is much better.

The aircraft industry is waiting for the same breakthroughs that the car manufacturers are. Basically, better batteries. For the past decade it was primarily laptops that were pushing for the battery advancements, now auto manufacturers are joining in.


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## VelesHomais

Battery swap demonstration by _Better Place_


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## 回回

An original Aptera in San Francisco


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## VelesHomais

*Toyota Prius with an aftermarket solar panel kit that could extend the car’s range in electric mode by 20 miles*
Solar panels mounted on cars can supplement battery life. Although I doubt that this is cost effective as of now, unfortunately.


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## VelesHomais

My concern about Aptera is that its wheels seem to be extended too far, making it more difficult to park. Although I haven't seen a single Aptera on the roads yet.


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## mopc

^^ Apteras are hard to spot only a few prototypes are running, they said they would be selling by 2010 but now it's 2011.... it's a pretty awesome-looking car to enrich and modernize our streets filled with blocky 20th century ****-erectus-mobiles.


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## VelesHomais

LOL, that last sentence is right on target.

Aptera in New York. Theoretically I may spot one sometime.


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## BOSS

down with the electric car! ...

Petrol FTW!!


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## BOSS

nothing can beat this.


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## VelesHomais

Electric cars are going to be a lot faster than petrol ones, in years to come


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## mopc

^^ Actually the Tesla Roadster is already one of the most muscly cars out there today, doesn't it have the fastest acceleration in the market today or something. 

Electric motors get 100% torque at 0 second. No oily transmission, gears, millions of clumsy Victorian-age gasping gaskets and jumping pinions and pistons, electric cars are easy to maintain and more macho to accelerate.

**** the environment I just want to drive a car running on something that wasn't around in Jules Verne's times!


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## BOSS

there is no soul to an electric car  could careless about speed.


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## AltinD

nomarandlee said:


> ... a good milestone on the hybrid car front.





Innsertnamehere said:


> i just posted that, but ya, it is a pretty big milestone in integrating hybrids.....


What milestone? A 4 cylinder engine + Electric motor costing the same as a V6 engine car of the same model? 

LOL at the logic ... plus a VW Touareg Hybrid (V6 + El.motor) already costs less then the V8 model. :tongue2:




mopc said:


> This doesn't make sense; the amount of energy spent to extract and process oil and far greater than that of producing electricity, you just have to diverge the energy used in oil wells and refineries to producing electricity and there will be energy to spare.


So what you are saying is that the amount of electricity used to exctract oil is bigger then the amount of electricity that burning that oil will produce? :nuts:




VelesHomais said:


> Some people are intimidated by the future


No, we just frown at your naive conviction that in 2 years we will be driving electric cars in mas.


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## mopc

Tesla Roadster test drive


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## mopc

AltinD said:


> So what you are saying is that the amount of electricity used to exctract oil is bigger then the amount of electricity that burning that oil will produce? :nuts:


No, I'm saying that if we were all driving electric vehicles right now, even though electrical consumption would sharply rise, energy consumption would drop quite a lot overall. 

Even if all that extra electricity were produced by diesel or kerosene powered powerplants, the fact that is electricity and distributed by electric wires to electric motors means that at least 70-80% of the energy-content of every ton of diesel or kerosene actually is used by the final driver. 

Whereas the internal compbustion engine only uses max 30% of the energy content of the gasoline it uses (minus all the diesel to transport the fuel from the refinery to the gas station).

So even if all electric cars used electricity from fossil fuel plants, there would still be less energy use overall than what we have with internal combustion neanderthal mobiles puffing smoke and trembling like a medieval machine.


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## Guest

ch1le said:


> what gets me exited about EVs is that they are much more quiet then regular cars. Imagine how this potentially changes the way we build cities, motorways, etc!


EVs and hybrids are far superior in this respect. Current cars are just too noisy, especially diesels. Buses make a hell of racket. The operating conditions of buses makes them ideal for hybrids. Some buses in use, use a hybrid electric/turbine.

Turbine bus


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## Guest

Does anyone know how many EVs/series hybrids are being planned by the big companies world-wide?


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## VelesHomais

For 2011 it's Nissan Leaf and Chevy Volt, for the most part. 2012-2013 will see many more models coming from all major car manufacturers, pretty much.

Chevy Volt


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## Turknology

^^

:drool:

fap fap fap fapfafpfapfapfap fap fap


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## VelesHomais

You'll also get a simple app on your mobile device which can be used to: start engine, start the air conditioner, start the heater, check battery status and other things. Highest mobile to car synchronization ever.

It's a very cool car


----------



## Turknology

^^

If they add autopilot it will be purrfect


----------



## VelesHomais

Autopilot coming to consumer vehicles in 8-10 years


----------



## Turknology

^^

Actually the technology for autopilot is already available why no body implements it is something I don't understand. Not everyone sees a car as an extension of their ***** and would be perfectly fine with the computer doing the driving.


----------



## VelesHomais

Well, the technology has just become available. An example is that trip from Italy to China that utilizes it, which I posted on the other page. NASA has been using it for 10 years now. Some U.S. military trucks now use it. But people are afraid of change, I can hear millions of nutjobs protesting artificial intelligence guiding their cars. It'll first start on the highways only and it'll be just great, I can't wait for AI driven cars. Just read a book, watch a movie, while the car takes you where you need to go. It's a tad bit sad that we already have the technology, as you said, and we know that it will happen in the future, but it won't happen anytime soon...


----------



## Paddington

The Chevy Volt's lease pricing is very attractive, IMO, $350 a month. 

Nissan Leaf is $30K vs. the Chevy Volt's $40K retail pricing (both get another $7K off the price tag with government discounts), but brings nothing new to the table. The Leaf wouldn't even work as a commuter car here in Detroit. Hell, even when I lived in Toledo last year it wouldn't have worked as a commuter car.


----------



## VelesHomais

The Leaf gives you more pure electrical miles, just over 100 total. It's more than sufficient for being used as a city car. More than enough for city travel in New York City and obviously in any other city as well. But these range problems are temporary until we get charging stations on every highway, every 50 miles. The quick charging system that allows you to get 80% of battery life in just 30 minutes, I don't see any problems. For now it's a chicken and the egg problem, you don't want to buy this car before the infrastructure is in place, while the infrastructure doesn't "want" to appear until people actually own these cars.

Imho, the Leaf is slightly worse in terms of design, but still quite futuristic


----------



## VelesHomais

Let's not forget Batter Place, one minute and you got a fully charged battery


----------



## mopc

^^ Unfortunately I don't see these battery swapping facilities popping up anytime soon. They sould just set up electric outlets in the middle of the streets like parkmeters, with 480V for faster charging and an electronic system for payment. Every city block should have one, every 2 km of a road should have one. 

They are far easier to set up than a gas station, after all electricity is everywhere, the only problem is its not available for sale everywhere. 

They should make like wireless charging plates on parking spots that recharge your car without you having to pull out wires and opening outlets, because you may forget that. Your car would have a wireless recharging plate underneath its body and mere proximity would start charging, if programmed to do so.


----------



## VelesHomais

Yeah I was thinking the same thing, I'd like most of electrical charging locations to have wireless charging for a number of reasons. Think of vandalism, some retarded teenagers are going to unplug every car or cut the cord.


----------



## mic of Orion

VelesHomais said:


> Let's not forget Batter Place, one minute and you got a fully charged battery


nice one pan, like this project kay:

hope other cities pick up on the idea, i really do, i might send this link to London mayor's office and see how they react to this.


----------



## rantanamo




----------



## nerdly_dood

*Just because autopilot is available doesn't mean that any people will be able to fit in the car with it. That crap takes up pretty much the entire passenger space, including the driver's seat.*


----------



## VelesHomais

nerdly_dood said:


> *Just because autopilot is available doesn't mean that any people will be able to fit in the car with it. That crap takes up pretty much the entire passenger space, including the driver's seat.*


How so? I've seen pics, it doesn't seem to take that much space at all.


----------



## nerdly_dood

*Mostly I know there has to be a bunch of mechanical and electronic junk on the steering wheel and pedals, plus a lot of junk on the outside.








*


----------



## I-275westcoastfl

I'm sorry but some of us like driving a car so I would absolutely hate autopilot. To me the only good thing is if you had some drinks you could have the car autopilot you home.


----------



## nerdly_dood

I-275westcoastfl said:


> I'm sorry but some of us like driving a car so I would absolutely hate autopilot. To me the only good thing is if you had some drinks you could have the car autopilot you home.


*I'm wary of it too, I'd prefer to do the driving myself.*


----------



## VelesHomais

Maybe some of that autopilot junk isn't necessary, anyway, I'm sure that it'll get miniaturized like everything else. I despise driving and would never ever drive if I had the autopilot. Take me to Boston, car! I'll take a nap meanwhile  imagine if they could charge themselves too, without waking the user up.


----------



## Turknology

I-275westcoastfl said:


> I'm sorry but some of us like driving a car so I would absolutely hate autopilot. To me the only good thing is if you had some drinks you could have the car autopilot you home.


Autopilot at first would be optional, later on it would become mandatory so that things like drinking and driving, speeding, and other breaches of traffic law would become impossible as the human factor would be removed from driving.

Manual driving would probably become a reacreational sport where you could drive on only special tracks built for that purpose.

Welcome to a brave new world


----------



## VelesHomais

I think that an option to manualy drive your car will be available on most city roads as late as 2035, but highway cruising will become autopilot-mandatory in the twenties. Think how efficient, convenient, and safe, driving will become.


----------



## nerdly_dood

*Never try to predict the future. Those who do never get it right. It's better to not even bother than to always be wrong.*


----------



## VelesHomais

We are at a point in history when we are aware of the technological and scientific advances that will occur within the next twenty years. We can't be sure of how they will be utilized but we have some pretty concrete guesses. Like transition from silicon to graphene in computers will make them exponentially more powerful and at the same time smaller.


----------



## Turknology

VelesHomais said:


> I think that an option to manualy drive your car will be available on most city roads as late as 2035, but highway cruising will become autopilot-mandatory in the twenties. Think how efficient, convenient, and safe, driving will become.


most states throughout the world have become control freak nanny states, once auto-pilot is widespread I can easily predict that they will make it mandatory as soon as possible


----------



## nerdly_dood

Turknology said:


> most states throughout the world have become control freak nanny states, once auto-pilot is widespread I can easily predict that they will make it mandatory as soon as possible


*Washington will burn when autopilot is required.

Only if it's required as an OPTION though - if it automatically engages when it smells alcohol then I don't have a problem with it. If it's easy for people who have a driver's license and aren't drunk to override the autopilot, then it should be OK. But if it's required that cars ONLY use autopilot, that ain't cool.*


----------



## VelesHomais

I can see millions protesting such complete switch in U.S., which would delay it by a decade...


----------



## 回回

In the future, manually operated vehicles will be relegated to the racetrack where they belong. 

People used to miss driving horses when engines took over carriages but get over it, people are missing the sound of clanky engines when silent cars take over but are getting over it, and people will miss driving cars until they see the convenience and speed offered by automatically driving cars, just like most people prefer an automatic transmission today.


----------



## AltinD

Turknology said:


> most states throughout the world have become control freak nanny states, once auto-pilot is widespread I can easily predict that they will make it mandatory as soon as possible


Dubai police wants one speed trap every one km. Nowdays in the main highway is 1 for 3 km


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## Concrete Stereo

Turknology said:


> Autopilot at first would be optional, later on it would become mandatory so that things like drinking and driving, speeding, and other breaches of traffic law would become impossible as the human factor would be removed from driving.
> 
> Manual driving would probably become a reacreational sport where you could drive on only special tracks built for that purpose.
> 
> Welcome to a brave new world


Doesn't sound too bad - at least for highway kilometers. A sort of constant traffic jam driving with 120 km/h (or 300, why not?)

In the city it'd be nice to be able to park wrongly, stop for a chat, and all these nice things of manual driving (it'd be nice if it'd bring me to the closest free parking spot though  - but if that's possible, it'll just mean the end of free parking spots, I'm sure)


@回回 - In Europe, nobody uses automatic transmission actually. Even though the technique is invented in Europe, I believe.


----------



## goschio

Concrete Stereo said:


> @回回 - In Europe, nobody uses automatic transmission actually. Even though the technique is invented in Europe, I believe.



Its actually not that uncommon.For example in Germany 25% of all new cars have automatic with an increasing tendency. 
Don't know about other european countries though.


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## AltinD

^^ Of course, because he might be driving a older car or a small one doesn't mean auto is uncommon.


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## Turknology

here's my predictions.

Step 1: a certain period of time will be given for transition to electrically powered cars.after which all cars will be electrical only.

Step 2: new electrical cars will be manufactured with optional auto pilot, older ones will be fitted with auto pilot option.

Step 3: after a transition period all manual drive options will be removed from production, also all cars will be activated by thumb/eye scan, or some similar technology.

Step 4: all traffic will be regulated, cars will not to be able to access certain regions, also there will be time limits put on the activities of the cars, in emergency cases they will only work after authorisation by the authorities.

step 5: all cars will become auto pilot only and will be fitted with a system for remote control of the cars by security forces (who will be able to divert the car to a specific place when they need to, bank robbery getaways, suicide bomb attempts using vehicles, etc will be impossible) all activities of the cars like where it has been that day, who drove it, etc will be logged in a central mainframe.

step 6: all attempts at overriding auto pilot and security measures will become a major felony (and in the case of such an attempt the vehicle will send a signal to the mainframe).

step 7: everyone will prefer to walk or ride bicycles (I didn't include public transport because that too will keep track of who is using it and when) 

:devil:


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## Turknology

AltinD said:


> Dubai police wants one speed trap every one km. Nowdays in the main highway is 1 for 3 km


isn't it in Dubai where all those huge speed bumbs are found


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## AltinD

^^ On some internal roads


----------



## IchimaruGin1

Dubai sounds like a control freak place. Seriously Altin, one speed trap every 3km on a highway? thats way over the top with the nice infra in place there.

Is the same in mumbai with the speed breakers. But not as bad as Dubai. Mostly on internal roads and not highways. But you can say that more of them are needed as Indians are pretty rash drivers.


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## Turknology

IchimaruGin1 said:


> Dubai sounds like a control freak place. Seriously Altin, one speed trap every 3km on a highway? thats way over the top with the nice infra in place there.
> 
> Is the same in mumbai with the speed breakers. But not as bad as Dubai. Mostly on internal roads and not highways. But you can say that more of them are needed as Indians are pretty rash drivers.


well Dubai is a place with a lot of sports cars and thus needs to be protected against rich kids seeing the roads as their personal play ground. I don't blame the authorities for trying to keep it under control.


----------



## IchimaruGin1

whats the speed limit in dubai


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## AltinD

IchimaruGin1 said:


> Dubai sounds like a control freak place. Seriously Altin, one speed trap every 3km on a highway? thats way over the top with the nice infra in place there


Oh please ....




Turknology said:


> well Dubai is a place with a lot of sports cars and thus needs to be protected against rich kids seeing the roads as their personal play ground. I don't blame the authorities for trying to keep it under control.


It's not a simple case of speedsters. The traffic is really bad in the sense you might see people doing less or right to the limit and sticking on the fast lane and not moving from there, or doing 20 km/h less then the limit on the 2nd lane.

Before they put all these radars the traffic was really dangerous. You might be doing 160 or more on the fast lane and then a speeding vehicle doing 200 or more would be rocketing toward you and you'd have no possibility to move right cause the morons there were doing 100. 

The traffic now is way more disciplined in the highway. Years ago I used to drive mostly at 160 slowing down near the cameras, but now I keep it right below the limit (110 - 120 at 100 km/h zone and 130 - 140 at the 120 km/h one) 



IchimaruGin1 said:


> whats the speed limit in dubai



50 km/h - internal city roads
80 km/h - city roads
100 km/h - highway in dense traffic areas (speed traps fire at 121 km/h)
120 km/h - highways (speed traps fire at 141 km/h)

120 km/h - Dubai - Abu Dhabi highway on the Abu Dhabi side (speed traps fire at 160 km/h)


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## BOSS

**** the electric car.

I want a "new" ... old car to work on and was just reading this thread. I hate electric cars.

I want the electric car to die. oil is not going anywhere. 

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=119726


----------



## Turknology

BOSS said:


> **** the electric car.
> 
> I want a "new" ... old car to work on and was just reading this thread. I hate electric cars.
> 
> I want the electric car to die. oil is not going anywhere.
> 
> http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=119726


resistance is futile


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## Turknology

AltinD said:


> Years ago I used to drive mostly at 160 slowing down near the cameras


:nono:


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## BOSS

people can already track cars with gps in todays cars. Im willing to bet that if you're unable to pay your insurance or parking fees or whatever else. Companies are going to be able to disable your vehicle all because of electronics. Including the police in case you are speeding.

This ain't freedom :bash:


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## BOSS

damn my sig applies here 

“Don't piss in my pocket and tell me it's raining. ”


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## BOSS

Turknology said:


> ^^
> 
> Actually the technology for autopilot is already available why no body implements it is something I don't understand. Not everyone sees a car as an extension of their ***** and would be perfectly fine with the computer doing the driving.


I wouldn't, this is why people are such shitty drivers today. way to many driving aids and comforts. 

I cna't stand automatics btw  tells you where Im coming from. driving is a skill and most ppl suck @ it


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## VelesHomais

What is it that you prefer in combustion engine cars, is it non linear acceleration? The noise can be imitated, you'll probably be able to choose what you want your car to sound like, it can roar as loud as the worst, old cars through speakers. I don't see a single advantage, electric is superior in every single way. If it's a matter of collecting antique cars then that's a whole different ballgame


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## AltinD

Turknology said:


> :nono:


August 2004 


This ...










*=*










:runaway:


----------



## BOSS

its a couple of things that I'll briefly touch. The fact that electric cars are being imposed on us because of environmentalists/peak oil bullshit and a mechanical car has way more character than an electric one.


----------



## Turknology

BOSS said:


> people can already track cars with gps in todays cars. Im willing to bet that if you're unable to pay your insurance or parking fees or whatever else. Companies are going to be able to disable your vehicle all because of electronics. Including the police in case you are speeding.
> 
> This ain't freedom :bash:


resistance is futile


----------



## Turknology

AltinD said:


> August 2004
> 
> 
> This ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *=*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :runaway:


I am a speedster myself, but it will become a thing of the past


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## BOSS

Turknology said:


> resistance is futile


you're an ass :lol:


----------



## Turknology

BOSS said:


> you're an ass :lol:


----------



## Concrete Stereo

goschio said:


> Its actually not that uncommon.For example in Germany 25% of all new cars have automatic with an increasing tendency.
> Don't know about other european countries though.


Yeah, I thought of changing it to 'hardly anybody'. I do believe it's an increasing tendency though. Checked it: for the Netherlands goes: 1995: 8,5%, 2000: 12%, this year 19% of sold cars. Still, surprisingly little.


----------



## VelesHomais

*BMW Follows Electric Car Trend With Its Megacity Vehicle*










BMW (BAMXY.PK) has put a face to the name of its so-called Megacity Vehicle, the first BMW designed from the ground up as an electric vehicle.

Strategically, an EV represents a different direction for BMW, which has sunk a lot of resources over the years into hydrogen-powered internal combustion engines, unlike just about every other automaker, except Mazda (MZDAF.PK).










In a larger sense, the BMW electric vehicle is also a symbol that German automakers “get it.” Consumers equate electric vehicles and hybrids with “green” values, and any car company that doesn’t go along starts to suffer image-wise.

It would be more convenient, not to mention cheaper, for German automakers if consumers — especially American ones — accepted clean-burning diesel engines as higher-mileage alternatives to hybrids and EVs. But that seems unlikely, to put it nicely.

In the meantime, Japanese rivals are stealing the spotlight and building a greener-than-thou image. Nissan (NSANF.PK), for instance, will launch the battery powered Nissan Leaf this year, about three years ahead of BMW.

That’s not to say the Megacity Vehicle is a thrown-together solution. By the time the MCV arrives on the market around 2013, BMW will have experimented for about four years with test fleets of existing models retrofitted with battery powered motors.

What’s radically different about the Megacity Vehicle, which BMW calls MCV for short, is that it makes extensive use of a new material, carbon fiber reinforced plastic, to reduce weight and improve range.

BMW introduced a battery powered Mini Cooper last year, which ordinary drivers can lease. A battery powered BMW 1-Series, which the company calls the BMW Concept ActiveE, will be introduced in the spring of 2011.

So BMW won’t be first, or even second or third, out of the box with an electric vehicle, but you’d like to think that when it does arrive, the MCV will be thoroughly thought-out, and also fun to drive.

Graphic: BMW

Extremely light & durable material









http://www.bnet.com/blog/auto-business/bmw-follows-electric-car-trend-with-its-megacity-vehicle/1295

Good to see everyone hopping on board. Down with the outdated, 20th century, messy, crappy cars!


----------



## 回回

Concrete Stereo said:


> Yeah, I thought of changing it to 'hardly anybody'. I do believe it's an increasing tendency though. Checked it: for the Netherlands goes: 1995: 8,5%, 2000: 12%, this year 19% of sold cars. Still, surprisingly little.


In the US, Canada, and Japan post-2000 it is above 90%. The first automatic transmission was invented in Boston before 1910, but the type of automatic we have today was created by GM before 1950 and introduced on a Buick.



BOSS said:


> I wouldn't, this is why people are such shitty drivers today. way to many driving aids and comforts.
> 
> I cna't stand automatics btw  tells you where Im coming from. driving is a skill and most ppl suck @ it


Yeah, from the country 

A manually driving car is pretty wimpy compared to a horse, but everyone drives a car now because it is easier. Maybe someday teleporting will be wimpy compared to taking an self-driving car since you aren't getting the experience of 'going there' :lol:


----------



## BOSS

回回;61279281 said:


> Yeah, from the country


:rofl:

nope


----------



## VelesHomais

New Mercedes Gullwing To Go Electric










The yet-to-hit-showrooms gullwing SLS AMG supercar from Mercedes. They are making an all-electric version of the gullwing called the E-Cell… and it looks like it might actually make it to market.

It can go from 0-60 mph in four seconds thanks to the 649 ft-lbs of torque provided by its electric motors. With no exhaust system, the rear diffuser and front splitter have been tweaked to provide even more downforce.

The E-Cell uses over 300 lithium-ion battery cells, though no word on what its proposed range is. The car is slated to debut in 2013.










Unfortunately this bad boy is going to be out of most people's price range


----------



## VelesHomais

BOSS said:


> its a couple of things that I'll briefly touch. The fact that electric cars are being imposed on us because of environmentalists/peak oil bullshit and a mechanical car has way more character than an electric one.


To each his own, but I wish the old clanky cars die as fast as it is possible, to be replaced by clean easy-maintenance cars of the future


----------



## VelesHomais

By the way, you can take an old, antique car, take all the crap out and turn it into a nice electric car:









If the Chevy Volt's $40,000 price tag sounds a bit too steep, you could always go the do-it-yourself route of Oregon teenager Ashton Stark.

He just finished a yearlong conversion of his grandfather's 1972 Volkswagen Super Beetle into an electric car.

"I was actually looking online with my dad at electric cars, because we heard a lot about them and thought they were kind of cool," Ashton says. "I decided I wanted to do one. And once I got the body from my grandpa, it all just kind of fell together."

With help from his father, Ashton installed nine golf cart batteries in the car and connected a single motorized shaft to the Beetle's transmission.

He estimates the car can travel about 45 miles on a full charge at about 45 mph. He says the electric conversion can be applied to other cars, too.

"You can convert almost any lightweight vehicle to electric," Ashton says. "VWs and Porsches work the best for electric, though."

His grandfather's old Beetle holds special significance. "My grandpa would be incredibly proud of something like this."

Ashton won't be able to drive his new electric Beetle for a few more days; he turns 15 today and will take the test for his learner's permit Monday.

His next project: outfitting a car for his sister.

"I'm working on finding a straight body for either a Bug or a Porsche to convert for my little sister for her first car."
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128892473


----------



## VelesHomais

Double post


----------



## AltinD

VelesHomais said:


> New Mercedes Gullwing To Go Electric
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The yet-to-hit-showrooms gullwing SLS AMG supercar from Mercedes*


Yet to hit showrooms? :nuts:




VelesHomais said:


> By the way, you can take an old, antique car, *take all the crap out *and turn it into a nice electric car:


There was nothing under the hood of that car. The engine was at the back :lol:


----------



## 回回

I think that's the point, it has a place to put batteries.


> "You can convert almost any lightweight vehicle to electric," Ashton says. "VWs and Porsches work the best for electric, though."


----------



## AltinD

^^ Was commenting on what VelesH wrotte.


----------



## Get Smart

AltinD said:


> August 2004
> 
> 
> This ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *=*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :runaway:


you are the man, quality stuff,:applause: no paan munching incompetent driving BS


----------



## mopc

great convertedf beetle


----------



## VelesHomais

Not a car but just as, if not more, exciting!

*NASA-Boeing Hybrid 70% Electric Passenger Airplane of the Future*

Boeing's team came up with several Subsonic Ultra Green Aircraft Research (SUGAR) concepts, including this one, the SUGAR Volt. The most noticeable element of the design is that the wings are long and skinny--longer from tip to tip, and shorter from leading edge to trailing edge--and as a result, truss-braced. (Given the wingspan, the wings might well have to be hinged to accommodate parking at airport terminals, Boeing said.) Under the hood of the twin-engine aircraft, Boeing envisions using a hybrid turbo-electric propulsion technology

http://news.cnet.com/2300-11386_3-10003481-2.html










This is exactly the kind of development that will keep the freedom of flying afloat in the future, at about the same time when flight rationing per person will go in affect on conventional airplanes. Unfortunately this will take decades to enter the consumer market.


----------



## nerdly_dood

The Sugar Volt :hilarious


----------



## AltinD

VelesHomais said:


> This is exactly the kind of development that will keep the freedom of flying afloat in the future, at about the same time when flight rationing per person will go in affect on conventional airplanes. Unfortunately this will take decades to enter the consumer market.


LOL, a propeller engined plane is the future of Aviation? On which parallel universe do you live? :lol:


----------



## goschio

Just use biofuels for planes. Thats a renewable type of energy and even carbon neutral if done right.


----------



## VelesHomais

Biofuel is not entirely ecologically friendly, but the main problem is that it's very wasteful to rely on biofuels, especially as overpopulation becomes a catastrophic problem in the future. It takes something like 12 acres to supply a single airplane fill. Though there are speculations that Algae will be much more effective. The future is behind hybrids that will be 70% electric and 30% biofuel.


----------



## BOSS

:cheers:


*Hackers Wirelessly Crash Car's Computer At Highway Speeds*



> A team of university researchers has been able to hack into a car's warning systems via wireless sensors, sending fake tire pressure messages at highway speeds and eventually frying an onboard computer. The dawn of the carhacker approaches.
> 
> We've told you before about experiments to hack into the increasingly complicated programming in modern vehicles. How complicated? A typical luxury sedan will carry three miles of wiring, scores of processors and close to 100 million lines of software code, or roughly 20 times more than used in a F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.
> 
> Those previous experiments showed what could be done with a physical connection to a vehicle's computer. The new work by teams from the University of South Carolina and Rutgers tried a different tack: spoofing the wireless sensors in wheels used by tire pressure monitoring systems, required in all new U.S. vehicles since 2008.
> 
> The researchers didn't find a wide-open door so much as the security employed by a 1920s speakeasy: once they learned the secret knock, the unidentified test car's controls let them in no questions asked. The team sent fake warning messages from 40 meters away, and in another experiment, got the test car to flash a warning that a tire had lost all pressure while beaming the signal from another car as both drove 68 mph.
> 
> Because each sensor uses a unique ID tag, it was also possible to track specific vehicles, in a way that would be far less noticeable than roadside cameras.
> 
> The hacked car usually reset its warnings after the spoofed messages stopped. But after two days of tests, the electronic control unit for the tire monitors fell off its twig and had to be replaced by a dealer. The researchers note that it took several hours of graduate-level engineering to devise their tools and crack into the monitors, but that the actual technology for doing so cost about $1,500.
> 
> The teams suggest some basic software rules could provide at least a lookout for the speakeasy door. it's not the auto equivalent of the Conficker worm, but such experiments suggest the tools for an actual hack may exist. Thankfully, many Americans already have a strong defense of ignorance: Nearly half apparently don't understand what a tire pressure warning light looks like, and a third don't even know such systems exist.


http://jalopnik.com/5610373/hackers-wirelessly-crash-cars-computer-at-highway-speeds

*CarShark Software Lets You Hack Into, Control And Kill Any Car*



> CarShark's a computer program that'll let someone hack into a car's onboard computer system to kill the brakes, disable the engine, blast music and otherwise wreak electronic havoc. It's both clever and absolutely frightening. Here's how it works.
> 
> A team of researchers led by professors at the University of Washington and USCD hacked the Controller Area Network (CAN) system installed on all new cars built in the United States to show how potentially vulnerable the system is. The CAN is supposed to allow onboard vehicle systems to communicate so problems are easier to diagnose, but the hands of these hackers it's the open door to disabling a vehicle.
> 
> The researchers connected to the car via a simple OBD-II computer port and using the CarShark program, identified the packets of information being trafficked across the CAN. For some hacks they used a process called "fuzzing" and sent random bits of code to disrupt them. This caused horns to blow, trunks to pop and even the brakes to stop functioning. There's supposed to be a failsafe override for the brakes, but jamming the ABS solenoids could lock up the brakes so they're not usable.
> 
> The most frightening attack is called "self-destruct" and essentially counts down from 60 seconds on the dash clock and then shuts off the engine and locks the door.
> 
> Don't freak out too much. It's not a simple task for someone without a degree in computer science to access the CAN and rewrite the code for a modern car, but that it's possible at all is something scientists think automakers need to consider when protecting these systems.


http://jalopnik.com/5539181/carshark-software-lets-you-hack-into-control-and-kill-any-car


----------



## AltinD

^^ The first one is interesting, the second one is just rubish idiotsy.


----------



## nerdly_dood

:shocked: omg i need to update my car's antivirus!

:lol:


----------



## AltinD

^^ Do you have TPM in your car?


----------



## VelesHomais

This sucks. Manufacturers should constantly automatically update firewalls on every car.


----------



## mopc

BYD All-Electric car to hit stores next month (found in Brazilian website, sorry for Portuguese-only, Ill try to find English sources)










Primeiro modelo totalmente elétrico chega no mercado chinês por R$ 71 mil

do AutoCosmos/Chile
exclusivo para MotorDream

A fabricante chinesa BYD, marca ligada ao multimilionário Warren Buffet, acaba de anunciar que irá trabalhar em conjunto com a Mercedes-Benz no desenvolvimento de um veículo elétrico e que colocará já este mês o modelo e6, 100% elétrico, a venda em suas concessionárias chinesas.

Segundo a marca, este modelo superou com folga todas as provas e testes realizados antes de seu lançamento. E agora será o primeiro automóvel totalmente elétrico a ser vendido em massa na China. No final do ano o modelo aterrissa nos Estados Unidos.

Embora o preço oficial ainda não tenha sido confirmado, estima-se que o BYD e6 custe cerca de US$ 40 mil, o equivalente a. R$ 71 mil. A fabricante revelou que este modelo representa um passo importante na medida em que diz respeito a novas tecnologias não-poluentes e é um reflexo da liderança da BYD no desenvolvimento de novas tecnologias.

O e6 utiliza baterias de lítio desenvolvidas pela própria BYD, líder mundial na produção de baterias para a indústria de telefonia móvel. O BYD e6 pode acelerar de zero a 100 km/h em 10 segundos, e atinge uma velocidade máxima superior aos 140 km/h, de acordo com a fabricante. Sua autonomia anunciada é de cerca de 300 quilômetros.


----------



## VelesHomais

*Buckeye Bullet Electric Car Hits 307 M.P.H., a Possible Record*

In a plume of salt crystals, students from Ohio State University’s Center for Auto Research witnessed their electric-powered racer make history on Tuesday. The Buckeye Bullet 2.5 averaged 307.7 miles per hour in back-to-back runs on Utah’s Bonneville Salt Flats, obliterating the previous record of 245.5 m.p.h., set in 1999.

The team is awaiting certification of its accomplishment by the Federation Internationale de l’Automobile, the governing body that ratifies world-record runs. A hydrogen fuel cell-powered version of the 2.5, the Buckeye Bullet 2, owns the record for its propulsion class, attaining an average speed of 302.9 m.p.h. in 2009.

To a casual E.V. enthusiast, the record might have seemed a foregone conclusion, as the 1999 mark was established by a racer running nickel-metal hydride batteries, which pack lower energy density than the lithium-ion unit powering the Buckeye Bullet 2.5. However, David Cooke, Ohio State’s team manager, noted in a telephone interview that the original Bullet also ran nickel-metal hydride batteries in 2004 when its car hit 314.9 m.p.h. (That run was rejected by the F.I.A.)

“The batteries we have now can generate way more power, though,” Mr. Cooke said.

The team traveled to the salt flats primarily to gauge its new battery unit’s performance, designed by A123 Systems of Watertown, Mass. The 2.5’s chassis and body were repurposed from the Buckeye Bullet 2. “We knew it was a solid, extremely safe platform from our 2009 run, and we needed a test mule for the A123 pack,” he said.

Given the 2.5 was merely a test iteration of the Buckeye Bullet, there will be significant upgrades between now and the eventual Bullet 3. “We’ll have an all-new chassis and body, and we’re considering four-wheel drive,” Mr. Cooke said.

On Wednesday, the team tried to better its record but was thwarted when the 2.5’s clutch essentially imploded. “We were testing an overrunning clutch, and we had too much torque coming from the motor and it ripped apart,” Mr. Cooke said. “We tried swapping in our regular friction clutch to make another run, but it just wasn’t happening.”

The team’s 2.5 initiative was sponsored in part by Venturi, a French electric vehicle company, which produced 25 examples of a two-seat, 300,000-euro coupe called the Fetish during the last decade. The record run in the 2.5 was piloted by Roger Schroer, a “professional tester with the Transportation Research Center in Ohio,” said Mr. Cooke.

“It says a lot to me that he was willing to jump into a car built by college students,” Mr. Cooke said. “We had an amazing level of mutual trust.”

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/201...lectric-car-hits-307-m-p-h-a-possible-record/


----------



## siamu maharaj

VelesHomais said:


> By the way, you can take an old, antique car, take all the crap out and turn it into a nice electric car:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If the Chevy Volt's $40,000 price tag sounds a bit too steep, you could always go the do-it-yourself route of Oregon teenager Ashton Stark.
> 
> He just finished a yearlong conversion of his grandfather's 1972 Volkswagen Super Beetle into an electric car.
> 
> "I was actually looking online with my dad at electric cars, because we heard a lot about them and thought they were kind of cool," Ashton says. "I decided I wanted to do one. And once I got the body from my grandpa, it all just kind of fell together."
> 
> With help from his father, Ashton installed nine golf cart batteries in the car and connected a single motorized shaft to the Beetle's transmission.
> 
> He estimates the car can travel about 45 miles on a full charge at about 45 mph. He says the electric conversion can be applied to other cars, too.
> 
> "You can convert almost any lightweight vehicle to electric," Ashton says. "VWs and Porsches work the best for electric, though."
> 
> His grandfather's old Beetle holds special significance. "My grandpa would be incredibly proud of something like this."
> 
> Ashton won't be able to drive his new electric Beetle for a few more days; he turns 15 today and will take the test for his learner's permit Monday.
> 
> His next project: outfitting a car for his sister.
> 
> "I'm working on finding a straight body for either a Bug or a Porsche to convert for my little sister for her first car."
> http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128892473


The only downside to doing this is telling your father you're gay.


----------



## snow is red

^^ Having a Beetle is gay ?


----------



## 回回

Or a straight woman :lol:


> Remy International, a company known mainly for its work with electric motors, has teamed up with MotoCzysz, a leading innovator in the electric motorcycle industry, to develop an integrated electric drive system that will feature Remy's High Voltage Hairpin (HVH) electric motor technology, paired with MotoCzysz's patent-pending cooling and integration technology. Working together, both companies hope to introduce the integrated electric drive system, known as the D1g1tal Dr1ve, in the second quarter of 2011.
> 
> The D1g1tal Dr1ve will utilize a liquid-cooled Remy internal permanent magnet (IPM) motor which is expected to produce class-leading torque of 250 pound-feet and 100 kW (135 horsepower) at a remarkable efficiency of 93 percent. Upgrades to future models of the D1g1tal Dr1ve will include more power in a smaller size. Michael Czysz, chief executive officer of MotoCzysz, spoke of the significance of the D1g1tal Dr1ve:
> 
> I believe electric drives are the purest and best solution to propel the majority of automobiles around the world. The D1g1tal Dr1ve was designed specifically with that vision in mind. Remy is a powerhouse in electric motor design and manufacturing and our first choice for a partner in this emerging sector. Our mutual goal is for the D1g1tal Dr1ve to deliver the highest performance, greatest efficiency and most integrated packaging solution available for companies needing electric drive solutions.


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## mopc

Now that's a cool bike


----------



## VelesHomais

First quick charge stations are opening in America and the Leaf's mass production has commenced


----------



## diablo234

siamu maharaj said:


> The only downside to doing this is telling your father you're gay.


Only if you drive the newer version.


----------



## Gus Granada en mano

http://www.hiriko.com/home (only in spanish, sorry)

Urban vehicle. 2 seats. 50 Kms/h. Autonomy 120 Kms. Joystick driven. Fisrt running vehicle expected for 2013.


----------



## seattle92

Some examples of charging stations. Lisbon has already a lot of them all over the city.


----------



## VelesHomais

General Electric vowed to buy ~20.000 electric vehicles for their fleet


----------



## VelesHomais

Holland electric vehicle dealer selling smaller alternative to Nissan Leaf, Chevy Volt










HOLLAND — Back in 1999 when he started Lakeshore Custom Golf Carts, Bob Hahn sold nothing but golf carts for recreation and vacation use.
Today, his Lakeshore Electric Cars dealership is a pioneer — selling street-legal electric vehicles, including the new highway-ready Wheego electric car.
“I haven’t sold a golf cart in years, ever since the state banned them from roadways,” he said. “Since 2006, all I sell are electric vehicles.”
Hahn carries street-legal low-speed vehicles like the 25 mph electric Tomberlin and the new Wheego LiFe electric car, a Smart-car like adaptation of a Chinese-made vehicle able to travel at a top speed of 65 mph and go 100 miles on a charge.
“I’m now the Michigan dealer for Wheegos, border to border,” he said.
The California car company delivered its first 2011 Wheego LiFe on Earth Day in Atlanta and is slowly gearing up production and rolling the car out to dealers like Hahn over the next few months.
“We’re starting out slowly, producing fewer than 100 a month to make sure we do it right,” said Susan Nicholson, Wheego’s vice president of corporate communications.
She said the company is still getting out showroom models to its 30 U.S. dealers and plans to ramp up car production in the fall.
“We’ve had a lot of interest but no sales yet,” said Hahn, who is using a factory demo Wheego at his dealership at 432 Waverly Road while he waits for delivery. “We’re still waiting to get cars to sell. I’m scheduled to get my first one in July.”
At $34,000 to $36,000, the Wheego’s price is on par with that of the larger all-electric Nissan Leaf but less than the more heavily publicized Chevrolet Volt’s $41,000 starting price. All qualify for a federal income tax credit of up to $7,500 for electric vehicle purchases.
While the Leaf seats five and the Volt four, the tiny Wheego has a roomy front cabin for two and small cargo space in the rear.
“The (Chevy) Volt is getting all the publicity, but the Wheego is a pretty sharp electric car for commuting — just plug it in every night and go,” said Hahn.
The car comes with all the standard car features, including power locks and windows, ABS breaks, electric mirrors, heater and air conditioning and an electric motor capable of 60 horsepower. The car chassis is manufactured in China with 73 percent of the component assembly done in Ontario, Calif.
“It will charge in six to eight hours on 110 power or four to six hours with 220 receptor,” said Hahn, noting there are about five public electric charging stations in Holland.
Wheego claims the car can go about 100 miles per charge, similar to the Leaf. Like the Leaf, the Wheego has no Volt-like gasoline backup power supply. When it runs out of juice, it must be plugged back in before going farther.
For those who don’t need highway driving speeds, Lakeshore Electric Cars also sells the golf cart-styled electric Tomberlin line, which is designed with road-worthy specs like a steel chassis, hydraulic disc brakes, rack-and-pinion steering, seat belts, headlights and turn signals and even stylish aluminum wheels and radial tires.
Prices on the street-legal Tomberlin range from $7,000 to $16,500.
“I’ve sold over 100 of them, including one to comedian Drew Carey,” Hahn said. “They’re purchased for use around farms, campgrounds and mall security as well as private owners for recreational use.”
The hottest product in the line right now is the Tomberlin Vanish, an all-terrain 4-by-4 vehicle with a 1,000-pound carrying capacity for hunting, outdoor sports and ranch and farm work.
Allendale Township resident Mark Groothuis bought an E2 recreational model for use at the Sandy Pines Resort Campground in Hopkins, where his family has a trailer.
“They have hundreds of acres of camp sites and lake there with miles of road, so everyone has a golf cart to get around,” said Groothuis, who paid $8,600 for his candy apple red E2 LE model in 2009.
“It gets a lot of use when my children and the grandchild show up. Plus, there’s nothing like it there and it’s pretty jazzy, so we get a lot of people looking at it when we go by.”

http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2011/06/holland_dealer_electric_vehicl.html


----------



## VelesHomais

*More Sites Install Solar Carports For Electric-Car Charging*










It's the green ideal: Charging an electric car or plug-in hybrid using electricity generated purely from the sun.
But it's not fiction; a handful of large, multi-space solar carports are popping up in areas as diverse as Silicon Valley, New York City, Detroit, and Tennessee.
The latest one, unveiled last week, sits outside the headquarters of GE Energy in Plainville, Connecticut.










It's a long V-shaped shelter with 40 parking space, six electric vehicle charging stations (made by GE, of course), and 425 solar panels on top. Theoretically, the facility could produce enough energy to power 20 homes or enough to charge 13 vehicles over the course of a day.
When the park's Level 2 (220-volt) charging stations aren't in use, the extra energy goes back into the city's electrical grid and powers the overhead lights.

A prototype Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid, loaned to Consumer Search, is shown above charging at the new solar carport.
With the car plugged into the 220-Volt station at the carport, it only took an hour-and-a-half to fully charge its 4.2-kilowatt-hour lithium-ion battery pack, whereas a 110-Volt home plug takes about 3 hours.
Unfortunately, GE has no plans to market a smaller home version of their car park. But GE's residential charger for electric vehicles, the WattStation, is due later this year. It can be plugged into 220-Volt home outlets just like a clothes dryer or any 220-Volt appliance. Price and retail partners haven't been announced yet.
Other solar carports can be found at the Nissan plant in Tennessee, on a waterfront in New York, and in Silicon Valley at Google's headquarters, courtesy of the search engine's RechargeIT Plug-in Hybrid Car Initiative.
At the Detroit-Hamtramck plant where GM builds the 2011 Chevy Volt range-extended electric car, it built its own solar lot even despite frequently overcast Michigan weather. Even the Air Force is getting into the act.
http://www.greencarreports.com/news...tall-solar-carports-for-electric-car-charging


----------



## VelesHomais

*Better Place Begins Installing Hawaii’s First Electric Car Charging Network*

HONOLULU (April 19, 2011) – Better Place today announced the initial deployment of its electric car network infrastructure in Hawaii. The installation of the first 10 charge spots across Oahu – five at the Sheraton Waikiki and five at three Hawaiian Electric sites – is the result of cross-sector partnerships between Better Place, Kyo-ya Hotels & Resorts (Kyo-ya), Starwood Hotels & Resorts Waikiki, Hawaiian Electric Company and the Hawaii Renewable Energy Development Venture.

“Better Place’s electric vehicle network is an innovative approach to integrating electric vehicles into our island grids,” said U.S. Senator Daniel Inouye.“This network made up of federal, state and private sector investments is transforming Hawaii’s transportation system into one powered by clean energy from electricity instead of imported oil.I am pleased to have been able to play a small role in reaching this important milestone.”

The project includes seven electric cars. Kyo-ya will operate two of them and Hawaiian Electric will own five of the cars. The cost of this pilot project is approximately $1.1 million, of which about $500,000 in funding was provided through the U.S. Department of Energy and the

Hawaii Renewable Energy Development Venture.

“This partnership between different business sectors is a great example of working togetherto move Hawaii in the direction of energy independence,” Governor Neil Abercrombie said. “Through this collaborative effort we are one step closer to being less dependent on fossil fuels while creating jobs in green technology and keeping money in our local economy.”

“The electrification of transportation will speed the adoption of renewable energy in Hawaii,” said Jason Wolf, Vice President, Better Place North America. “At scale, batteries in electric cars and in our battery switch stations serve as a distributed energy storage network, allowing Hawaiian Electric to tap into the rich diversity of renewable energy sources here. As such, Better Place plays a critical role in helping the State reach its policy objectives as well as creating local jobs.”

Kyo-ya is the first in Hawaii’s visitor industry to participate in this electric car charging network and will use the electric cars as fleet vehicles and shuttles to transport VIP guests between the airport and its four Waikiki hotels.

Hawaiian Electric Company has purchased five electric cars and has installed five chargers as part of this landmark project. The electrification of transportation will allow the utility to bring more renewable energy to the grid.

In the initial pilot phase of the Better Place charging network, the Hawaii Natural Energy Institute of the University of Hawaii will track usage, recharge performance, and grid and driver behavior.

The launch of the electric car charging network “supports the clean-energy goals that

Governor Abercrombie and President Obama have for our state and nation,” said Brian Goldstein, Director, Better Place Hawaii. He added that it marks Better Place’s first in-the-ground milestone not only in Hawaii, but in the United States. “Hawaii can be proud to be showing our nation the way toward a sustainable transportation future,” he said.

About Better Place

Better Place, the world’s leading electric car services provider, is accelerating the global transition to sustainable transportation. Better Place is building the infrastructure and intelligent network to deliver a range of services to drivers, enable widespread adoption of electric cars, and optimize energy use. The Better Place network addresses historical limitations to adoption by providing unlimited driving range in a convenient and accessible manner. The company works with all parts of the transportation ecosystem, including automakers, battery suppliers, energy companies, and the public sector, to create a compelling solution. Based in California and privately held, Better Place has operating companies in Israel, Denmark, and Australia. More information is availableat www.betterplace.com.










http://www.betterplace.com/the-comp...-hawaii-s-first-electric-car-charging-network


----------



## nomarandlee

> http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2011/flow-batteries-0606.html
> 
> *New battery design could give electric vehicles a jolt*
> 
> *Significant advance in battery architecture could be breakthrough for electric vehicles and grid storage.*
> 
> David L. Chandler, MIT News Office
> 
> June 6, 2011
> 
> A radically new approach to the design of batteries, developed by researchers at MIT, could provide a lightweight and inexpensive alternative to existing batteries for electric vehicles and the power grid. *The technology could even make “refueling” such batteries as quick and easy as pumping gas into a conventional car*.
> 
> *The new battery relies on an innovative architecture called a semi-solid flow cell, in which solid particles are suspended in a carrier liquid and pumped through the system. *In this design, the battery’s active components — the positive and negative electrodes, or cathodes and anodes — are composed of particles suspended in a liquid electrolyte. These two different suspensions are pumped through systems separated by a filter, such as a thin porous membrane.
> 
> The work was carried out by Mihai Duduta ’10 and graduate student Bryan Ho, under the leadership of professors of materials science W. Craig Carter and Yet-Ming Chiang. It is described in a paper published May 20 in the journal Advanced Energy Materials. The paper was co-authored by visiting research scientist Pimpa Limthongkul ’02, postdoc Vanessa Wood ’10 and graduate student Victor Brunini ’08.
> 
> *One important characteristic of the new design is that it separates the two functions of the battery — storing energy until it is needed, and discharging that energy when it needs to be used *— into separate physical structures. (In conventional batteries, the storage and discharge both take place in the same structure.) Separating these functions means that batteries can be designed more efficiently, Chiang says.
> 
> The new design should make it possible to reduce the size and the cost of a complete battery system, including all of its structural support and connectors, to about half the current levels. That dramatic reduction could be the key to making electric vehicles fully competitive with conventional gas- or diesel-powered vehicles, the researchers say.
> 
> Another potential advantage is that in vehicle applications, such a system would permit the possibility of simply “refueling” the battery by pumping out the liquid slurry and pumping in a fresh, fully charged replacement, or by swapping out the tanks like tires at a pit stop, while still preserving the option of simply recharging the existing material when time permits.
> 
> Flow batteries have existed for some time, but have used liquids with very low energy density (the amount of energy that can be stored in a given volume). Because of this, existing flow batteries take up much more space than fuel cells and require rapid pumping of their fluid, further reducing their efficiency.
> 
> *The new semi-solid flow batteries pioneered by Chiang and colleagues overcome this limitation, providing a 10-fold improvement in energy density over present liquid flow-batteries, and lower-cost manufacturing than conventional lithium-ion batteries. *Because the material has such a high energy density, it does not need to be pumped rapidly to deliver its power. “It kind of oozes,” Chiang says. Because the suspensions look and flow like black goo and could end up used in place of petroleum for transportation, Carter says, “We call it ‘Cambridge crude.’”
> 
> The key insight by Chiang’s team was that it would be possible to combine the basic structure of aqueous-flow batteries with the proven chemistry of lithium-ion batteries by reducing the batteries’ solid materials to tiny particles that could be carried in a liquid suspension — similar to the way quicksand can flow like a liquid even though it consists mostly of solid particles. “We’re using two proven technologies, and putting them together,” Carter says.
> 
> *In addition to potential applications in vehicles, the new battery system could be scaled up to very large sizes at low cost*. This would make it particularly well-suited for large-scale electricity storage for utilities, potentially making intermittent, unpredictable sources such as wind and solar energy practical for powering the electric grid.
> 
> The team set out to “reinvent the rechargeable battery,” Chiang says. But the device they came up with is potentially a whole family of new battery systems, because it’s a design architecture that “is not linked to any particular chemistry.” Chiang and his colleagues are now exploring different chemical combinations that could be used within the semi-solid flow system. “We’ll figure out what can be practically developed today,” Chiang says, “but as better materials come along, we can adapt them to this architecture.”
> 
> Yury Gogotsi, Distinguished University Professor at Drexel University and director of Drexel’s Nanotechnology Institute, says, “The demonstration of a semi-solid lithium-ion battery is a major breakthrough that shows that slurry-type active materials can be used for storing electrical energy.” This advance, he says, “has tremendous importance for the future of energy production and storage.”
> 
> Gogotsi cautions that making a practical, commercial version of such a battery will require research to find better cathode and anode materials and electrolytes, but adds, “I don’t see fundamental problems that cannot be addressed — those are primarily engineering issues. Of course, developing working systems that can compete with currently available batteries in terms of cost and performance may take years.”
> 
> Chiang, whose earlier insights on lithium-ion battery chemistries led to the 2001 founding of MIT spinoff A123 Systems, says the two technologies are complementary, and address different potential applications. For example, the new semi-solid flow batteries will probably never be suitable for smaller applications such as tools, or where short bursts of very high power are required — areas where A123’s batteries excel.
> 
> The new technology is being licensed to a company called 24M Technologies, founded last summer by Chiang and Carter along with entrepreneur Throop Wilder, who is the company’s president. *The company has already raised more than $16 million in venture capital and federal research financing*.
> 
> The development of the technology was partly funded by grants from the U.S. Department of Defense’s Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency and Advanced Research Projects Agency – Energy (ARPA-E). Continuing research on the technology is taking place partly at 24M, where some recent MIT graduates who worked on the project are part of the team; at MIT, where professors Angela Belcher and Paula Hammond are co-investigators; and at Rutgers, with Professor Glenn Amatucci.
> 
> The target of the team’s ongoing work, under a three-year ARPA-E grant awarded in September 2010, is to have, by the end of the grant period, “a fully-functioning, reduced-scale prototype system,” Chiang says, ready to be engineered for production as a replacement for existing electric-car batteries.


..


----------



## AltinD

As usual is the military to first rip the beneffits of any technological breakthrough, and by the time the thing got to be licensed for civil use, we would have all grown a long long grey beard.


----------



## stjern

Switching to electric cars and trucks seem inevitable now that oil production can't be increased anymore. I'm not sure it's the best option in the future though. A sterling engine will work better if you can use nuclear power for example. But for now we have to use energy from coal to replace oil for our transports or the economy will stagnate in the near future that's for sure. 

And now there won't be a spectacular breakthrough in battery technology, the electric engine and batteries are old technologies it's just that it would have been a waste to use them in the 1900's cars and trucks.


----------



## VelesHomais

Chevrolet Volt Dealers Install Solar Panels To Help Charging










General Motors has long been an advocate of solar energy, as is evident by the massive solar installations at many of its assembly plants. Now GM wants Chevrolet dealerships to do the same by participating in its new Green Zone Initiative, which includes the addition of solar panel canopies on their lots.
The canopies will primarily serve as an electric charging station with the capacity to replenish a dozen Chevy Volts daily. Additionally, the extra power harnessed from the sun can be fed back to the grid to supplement the dealership’s energy usage. Better yet, it will cost the dealers nothing to have the Green Zone canopies installed on their lots.

Two U.S. Chevy dealers are the first to take advantage of the deal they couldn’t refuse: American Chevrolet in Modesto, California and Al Serra Auto Plaza in Grand Blanc, Michigan.

“The question isn’t whether to install a solar canopy; it’s where and how many,” said Joe Serra, president of Serra Automotive. “It’s a win for us because the electricity generated will help reduce operating costs, and it’s a win for the environment since solar power helps reduce our carbon footprint.”

GM first demonstrated the Green Zone project at its Detroit Hamtramck assembly plant, which builds the Volt. The initiative is part of a $7.5 million investment into private company Sunlogics, which will provide and install the dealer solar canopies.

“Just one of these canopies provides enough renewable energy to power two to three homes per year, or more than 25 percent of a dealership’s energy consumption,” said Chris Perry, vice president, Global Chevrolet Marketing and Strategy. “Collectively, that will be a lot of power we are putting back into the grid.”

GM is currently leads all auto manufacturers in solar power usage. It has installed three solar power installations at three of its U.S. plants and has the world’s largest rooftop panel array at its assembly plant in Zaragoza, Spain.

Source: GM

http://rumors.automobilemag.com/chevrolet-volt-dealers-install-solar-panels-for-charging-64775.html


----------



## VelesHomais

GM plans to increase production of Chevy Volt to keep up with competitors

FLINT, Michigan — General Motors plans to amp up its production of the Chevy Volt to 5,000 cars a month to keep up with the Nissan Leaf.










According to an article by Bloomberg, "Nissan is winning this year, selling 3,875 of the Leaf in the U.S. to GM’s 2,745 Volt sales. While Nissan accelerated production faster than GM, the Detroit automaker will outstrip its Japanese rival and make 5,000 of the Volt a month as soon as January."

http://www.mlive.com/business/mid-michigan/index.ssf/2011/07/gm_plans_to_increase_productio.html


----------



## VelesHomais

BMW i reveals electric car concepts










BMW revealed two new electric car concepts that will be launched under its new i brand in Germany early this morning. The BMW i3 city car and the BMW i8 will be the auto manufacturer's first production vehicles designed from the ground up as electric or plug-in hybrids, rather than starting as an existing model and swapping the gas engine for an electric motor.

Read more: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-20085403-48/bmw-i-reveals-electric-car-concepts/#ixzz1TcgXNslI


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## VelesHomais

Superb ad


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## MarineMan

VelesHomais said:


> "You can convert almost any lightweight vehicle to electric," Ashton says. "VWs and Porsches work the best for electric, though."


The Beetle body is heavy and the aerodynamics of a brick. A nice attempt though.


----------



## VelesHomais

50,000 plug-in sales this year in America, up from 17,500 last year


----------



## VelesHomais

Well, it's been 4 years since the creation of this thread and electric cars are becoming mainstream. My original estimate that by 2015 there are going to be over a million plug-in cars is right on track as of today. Over 500k highway capable (not those weird park ones) plug-ins were sold worldwide since 2011 (when we started this thread)

I can't find exactly how many plug-ins there are worldwide today, but it has to be close to a million.

By 2020 electric cars will begin to dominate some regions and by 2030 - the world.


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

I can't remember a day this summer without seeing at least one Tesla in the streets of my hometown. Due to Norway's various incentives for electric car ownership, the Model S actually topped national car sales one month not too long ago. Nissan Leafs (Leaves?) are also seen just about everywhere. 

I think the Tesla represents a paradigm shift in how electric cars are viewed. Earlier, they were small plastic boxes you could roll around in for a few kilometres at a time, but the Tesla is a full-fledged, head-turning, highway cruising sports car, completely comparable with the sports models of other car manufacturers, except that it doesn't run on gasoline. Other manufacturers will probably try to imitate the concept in the future, and there's a big possibility that they'll actually succeed.

If the trend continues (and I think it will, given a peaceful and disaster-free society in the Western world), I predict that the word "gas station" will be obsolete or at least considered inaccurate in a couple of decades. Gasoline sales don't count much towards total profit in modern gas stations anyway, they make most of their money selling snacks to travellers and washing cars, and I guess that as time passes, they'll display (and advertise) rapid-charge docks more prominently than their gas pumps.

Also, I really look forward to see what the conversion to electric will do to inner-city air quality. We'll always have the asphalt dust, but smog from car exhausts will become rarer and rarer in the future.


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## VelesHomais

As of today NYC has almost 200 car charging stations and plans to create over 5000 more by 2020. The first charging station in NYC opened up only a few years ago.


----------



## Ulpia-Serdica

September will witness the launch of a new car-racing championship, one that is very different to what we see in Formula One.In Formula E, the cars will be electric. The project is not just about competition but the idea is to help the image and sales of electric cars.Ten teams, 20 drivers and 40 cars which can reach speeds up to 225kmh.


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## tryindiffdrugsngirls

What city is that #281?


----------



## Arnorian

Paris.


----------



## Arnorian

Tesla model S Warranty

4 year, 50,000 mile (whichever comes first) new vehicle limited warranty

8 year, 125,000 mile (whichever comes first) battery and drive unit warranty for 60 kWh battery equipped Model S

*8 year, unlimited mile battery and drive unit warranty* for 85 kWh battery equipped Model S

Both battery warranties cover damage from improper charging procedures and battery fire, even if the fire results from driver error

http://www.teslamotors.com/models/specs


----------



## Ulpia-Serdica

Tesla CEO Elon Musk announces the automaker's plan to build the world’s largest lithium-ion battery plant in Nevada. He speaks at a news conference in Carson City.


----------



## oakwood....

*Concept_One European Edition goes to GreenTEC Campus*













Enge-Sande, October 28th, 2014. - Rimac Automobili has selected Mr. Jensen and his GreenTEC Campus in Enge-Sande, Northern Germany, to be the proud owner of Rimac's European Edition of the Concept_One electric hypercar.

After a series of joint events, Rimac Automobili has now decided to award the privilege to own one of only eight Rimac Concept_Ones world-wide to Mr. Jensen and his Campus.

Mr. Jensen will be the owner of the staggering 1088hp fully electric hypercar. He was especially excited that his technology hub has managed to secure Rimac's support: “Since 1998 we are pioneers in wind energy technologies and now take a step higher to green smart grid systems. It´s wonderful to be part of the green conversion on our planet for future generations with evidence, that mobility and nature are not contrary to each other. We are proud and very happy to recognize, that Mate Rimac, the most designated expert in high performance E-Mobility has chosen the GreenTEC Campus to be Europe’s best location for his jewel and passenger rides in pure nature, powered by fuel out of the wind.”

The fastest electric car in production will be delivered to Germany in the first half of 2015. Acting as a gateway between Scandinavia and Central Europe and being situated in a 130-hectare natural reserve the GreenTEC campus hosts a technology cluster for renewable energy and cutting-edge technology. The GreenTEC campus is surrounded by a 7 km long test track, which will be available for GreenTEC partners and customers to push the Concept_One to new limits and to experience the world’s fastest electric car at its best.

Jens Pölling - Vocke, Rimac´s VP of Sales adds that Rimac Automobili is also honoured by the chance to work together with Mr. Jensen in order to promote the most exciting car alongside the technology an entire industry offers in Germany. Teaming up with a visionary like Mr. Jensen brings Rimac Automobili closer to its mission to inspire and excite people in order to promote the adoption of electric cars.

CEO and founder Mate Rimac elaborates: “Mr. Jensen is not just a regular customer. He is a lot more - a pioneer and a leader. This is an extension of the already existing long-term collaboration between GreenTEC campus and Rimac Automobili due to the fact that both companies share the same vision.”

Rimac Automobili’s sub-brand Greyp Bikes has already delivered three Greyp G12 high-performance electric bikes to the GreenTEC campus. The bikes are available for test rides for potential clients at the GreenTEC campus that will together with the to-be delivered Concept_One provide a thrilling all-electric experience to many lucky visitors.

The automotive industry is the one that economists usually invoke when explaining the concept of “barriers to entry.” The challenge to design, build and market an extremely complex piece of technology and navigate through a maze of regulations and requirements is usually the game of giant conglomerates that have been in the business for a century. New manufacturers that are successful at such an enterprise are very rare in the past decades. GreenTEC Campus’ Concept_One will be the fifth car and second production Concept_One delivered by Rimac Automobili to a customer which will bring Rimac Automobili one step closer to becoming an established manufacturer. This is even more of an achievement when considering that Croatia has never had any automotive manufacturing.

http://www.rimac-automobili.com/press/concept_one-european-edition-goes-to-greentec-campus-p20


----------



## Ulpia-Serdica

One of the main drawbacks when using an electric car is the lack of charging points around the city.

But there could be light at the end of the tunnel according to the founders of German start-up Ubitricity, who have come up with the bright idea of fitting charging sockets onto lamp posts.


----------



## Kutsuit

Definitely my favorite electric car:






:tongue2:


----------



## ThatOneGuy

Some of these cars are the dorkiest looking things ever. They need more Tesla-style cars that actually look cool to drive.


----------



## oakwood....




----------



## fountainkopf

ThatOneGuy said:


> Some of these cars are the dorkiest looking things ever. They need more Tesla-style cars that actually look cool to drive.


 
There is a problem to that..they cost 100 000 euros...and make no difference in fighting the global warming phenomena.


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

fountainkopf said:


> There is a problem to that..they cost 100 000 euros...and make no difference in fighting the global warming phenomena.


Actually, that is dependant on the electricity mix in the country where the car is charged. If your country uses mostly renewables, electric car operation will have a way lower climate change impact than conventionally-fueled cars. It is true that production of electric vehicles has a higher impact than the production of conventional vehicles (largely due to the amount of energy required to produce batteries), but over the life time of the car, it evens out and in most cases the electric vehicles outperform traditional ones.


----------



## fountainkopf

Kyll.Ing. said:


> Actually, that is dependant on the electricity mix in the country where the car is charged. If your country uses mostly renewables, electric car operation will have a way lower climate change impact than conventionally-fueled cars. It is true that production of electric vehicles has a higher impact than the production of conventional vehicles (largely due to the amount of energy required to produce batteries), but over the life time of the car, it evens out and in most cases the electric vehicles outperform traditional ones.


 
Ok...I also see that very few people can afford a Tesla. But if you had a 25 K € car that uses just 1/4 of the accus than a Tesla and 5 people seated it would make a difference if sold hundred million + copies.


----------



## Ulpia-Serdica

*ChargePoint, BMW, And VW To Build East And West Coast EV Charging Network*










It will soon be easier to drive an EV along both coasts in the U.S. Thanks to a new partnership with ChargePoint, BMW and VW, hundreds of charging stations will be placed strategically along the East and West Coast of America. This will create a network allowing drivers to travel between Portland and San Diego and Boston and Washington D.C.

ChargePoint already has a significant install base around the States with more than 20,000 chargers. But they’re scattered. ChargePoint focuses on selling the charging stations to businesses and municipalities. With this partnership, though, the company will install stations both between and within relevant metro areas. The stations will be at the max 50 miles away from each other.

The locations will house up to two 50 kW DC Fast chargers or 24 kW DC Combo Fast chargers.

These stations will recharge most EVs including models from BMW and VW. Tesla’s might need an adapter, though, but of course Tesla owners can also tap into Tesla’s own Supercharger network.

SOURCE: http://techcrunch.com/2015/01/22/ch...uild-east-and-west-coast-ev-charging-network/


----------



## oakwood....

*Rimac Electric Concept One Super Car*


----------



## GodIsNotGreat




----------



## Huti

the whole Tesla thing gives me a strong "bubble" vibe. May be wrong, dunno.


----------



## Architecture lover

I think the idea of driving a fossil fuel car appears so primitive.


----------



## KOZIMIERZ

In most countries electric cars are fossil fuel cars as well... Maybe not so much in Norway (hydroelectric generation).


----------



## Architecture lover

That's something that could possibly change too.
We all know the point is not just to have an electric car, but clean energy to supply it.


----------



## goschio

Electric cars definitely increase air quality in the places were the people live (cities!). The next step is then switching to renewable energy forms to reduce global pollution.

The next generation of electric cars should have ranges between 400 and 500km. That's for me the breaking point to buy one.


----------



## anwarosa.id

electric car i think worthed. just IMO :banana:


----------



## victorek

goschio said:


> Electric cars definitely increase air quality in the places were the people live (cities!). The next step is then switching to renewable energy forms to reduce global pollution.
> 
> The next generation of electric cars should have ranges between 400 and 500km. That's for me the breaking point to buy one.


breaking point will be when price wil be appro 1,5x of normal car.
Now its 2-2,5x higher price of car with fuel engine


----------



## Arnorian

*Germany’s Bundesrat votes to ban the internal combustion engine by 2030*

_The resolution is non-binding, but it's still a powerful signal._



> Is the tide turning for the internal combustion engine? In Germany, things are starting to look that way. This is the country that invented the technology, but late last week, the Bundesrat (the federal council of all 16 German states) voted to ban gasoline- and diesel-powered vehicles by 2030.
> 
> It's a strong statement in a nation where the auto industry is one of the largest sectors of the economy; Germany produces more automobiles than any other country in Europe and is the third largest in the world. The resolution passed by the Bundesrat calls on the European Commission (the executive arm of the European Union) to "evaluate the recent tax and contribution practices of Member States on their effectiveness in promoting zero-emission mobility," which many are taking to mean an end to the lower levels of tax currently levied on diesel fuel across Europe.


http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/10...o-ban-the-internal-combustion-engine-by-2030/


----------



## DetlefHubert

Turkey also developing an electric car ( with autopilot ) which will appear at Istanbul Auto Show 2018. Mass production should start 2020.


----------



## skymantle

DetlefHubert said:


> Turkey also developing an electric car ( with autopilot ) which will appear at Istanbul Auto Show 2018. Mass production should start 2020.


 Wow, any more info about this?


----------



## m13l1n1

Fast charging and hence the popularity is only feasible if the battery does not heat up and explode like the Samsung Nuke 7.


----------



## Skyckcty

Regional cooperation planned for charging stations to be built connecting Colorado, Utah and Nevada.


Energy.Utah.Gov


----------



## fountainkopf

skymantle said:


> Wow, any more info about this?


 What was it ?

Problem is athat in 1889 there were 2000 electric taxis in NYC and they had 1800 watt engines on them with 200 km range. Nowadays just the windscreen heater uses 2000 watts. Electric angines need new kind of vehicles...not the old cars with electric engines.

http://www.trendhunter.com/trends/threewheeler


----------



## neil.corrigan12

As of the moment or let say in 10 years from now I don't think it will really penetrate the market not even the 50% as people are not 100% ready for electric cars. I don't think it will win over non electric cars in the market at least in the next 10 years but let's see.


----------



## pav4n

In the long term, the recycling of lithium-based batteries and correct disposal methods will be a huge industry with cars having to effectively be dismantled as opposed to crushed. I do wonder how other car manufacturers will develop their vehicle battery packs, whether they will design them to be serviceable as easily as say Tesla cars or more like the more recent development in mobile phones where replacing the battery pack will be no small task requiring a lot of time. I can see some vehicle manufacturers taking that route in order to generate some long term revenue replacing batteries.


----------



## Rowanne Colbert

I like this one. It's looks so cute!


----------



## snot

KOZIMIERZ said:


> In most countries electric cars are fossil fuel cars as well... Maybe not so much in Norway (hydroelectric generation).


Is a power station on fossil fuel not more efficient to produce the same amount of energy than individual cars on the fuel? Even with the loss of energy through batteries and the network.


----------



## KOZIMIERZ

Depends on a car engine, power station, network, battery charger, battery efficiency etc. Direct drive from engine has the smaller losses.

Coal powered power stations have efficiency 30-40% +3-4% on transmission + losses on transformers + battery charger 3-10% + battery losses 1-2% + electric motor losses 10-20%. Plus you need to drag few hundred kg of batteries with you.
Gasoline car engine 25-30%, diesel a little more. So not much difference at best. 

The most important advantage of electric cars is shifting the combustion process outside of the cities and much better exhaust filters on power stations. Also in some countries part of the power comes from renewables and nuclear which is quite clean.


----------



## snot

^^
Oil power plants can have efficiency up to 42%. Also have to count the fuel distributions to gas stations.

But of course the biggest gaine is through renewables. Surplus of wind or sun energy can be stored in batteries for cars.


----------



## Neufunk

Or just nuclear.


Renewables are expensive and you cannot trust them. Besides, they also have very adverse effects on the landscape and the environment.


----------



## snot

Renewables are getting cheaper and now already competitive with fossils.


----------



## KOZIMIERZ

Absolutely untrue. The problem lies in a short lifespan of infrastructure usually about 20 years for both wind (mainly due to cyclic stresses in turbine structure) and solar (loss of panel efficiency in time). Please do not forget to add all taxes to renewables that are thrown on fosils. Only hydroelectric is economically viable - the rest would never ever exist if not for humongous state subsidies on all phases of construction, maintenance, utilization and decommissioning. Maybe apart from some very remote areas where you cannot easily get fossil fuel regularly. Hopefully latest good advances in photovoltaic technology will allow for economical use in areas close to equator.

Please note this is in perspective of electric car powering. Solar thermal and geothermal (for heating and cooling) can be economical provided right external conditions are present.


----------



## OnTheNorthRoad

^^ Add efficient pricing of externalities (which one always should) and it might not be so straight forward.

While we don't know what the efficient price is (because we don't yet know the extent of future global warming and even if we did, it'd not be easy to determine the added costs of it), we can try to find a best estimate.


----------



## fountainkopf

Rowanne Colbert said:


> I like this one. It's looks so cute!


 This uses only 15 cents worh electricity on 50 km daily commute.

http://www.ev-info.com/ev-car/3543-cree-ev


----------



## goschio

ericlobo said:


> Why not just do something practical like Brazil and use ethanol or plant based fuel.


Because it still pollutes the cities.


----------



## oakwood....

*Rimac Concept_One*










https://twitter.com/automobilirimac


----------



## fountainkopf

Electric concept cars and racers is not what people needs, but a practical affordable one.


----------



## wjfox




----------



## Kyll.Ing.

Well, looks like another milestone passed for electric race cars. Now one has the world record on the Nordschleife of the Nürnburgring.

Well, outside competitions at least. In 1983, a number of speed races were held on the 'Ring, with the best cars and drivers of their age duking it out, some finishing up to half a minute faster than the cars that drive there today. The records set that year are still standing. For some reason, F1 cars haven't driven there.

Anyway, enough talk, more video:


----------



## AltinD

goschio said:


> Because it still pollutes the cities.


And destroys human and cattle food chain


----------



## wjfox

*Tesla factory workers reveal pain, injury and stress: 'Everything feels like the future but us' *

Thursday 18 May 2017 08.00 BST

Exclusive: CEO Elon Musk defends workplace, saying ‘[we are not] just greedy capitalists who skimp on safety’ – and declares his $50bn company overvalued

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/18/tesla-workers-factory-conditions-elon-musk


----------



## Modestas Gailius

The goverment of that particular nation should incourage people on buying these electric cars providing the buyers with some sort of benefits. For example in Norway electric cars are excluded from value added taxes, including no purchase and import taxes, can use toll roads and bus lanes for free as well as park for free in city centers, the goverment of Norway made electric cars irresistable to people others should take note.


----------



## Ondro

wjfox said:


> *Tesla factory workers reveal pain, injury and stress: 'Everything feels like the future but us' *
> 
> Thursday 18 May 2017 08.00 BST
> 
> Exclusive: CEO Elon Musk defends workplace, saying ‘[we are not] just greedy capitalists who skimp on safety’ – and declares his $50bn company overvalued
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/18/tesla-workers-factory-conditions-elon-musk


Off course he is not greedy and his company is overvalued and overhyped. He had never ever reached a profitable month, Tesla is hype scam. That is why he needs his workers to work in bad conditions. So he can fulfill his wet dreams and parazit on the society along the way.



Modestas Gailius said:


> The goverment of that particular nation should incourage people on buying these electric cars providing the buyers with some sort of benefits. For example in Norway electric cars are excluded from value added taxes, including no purchase and import taxes, can use toll roads and bus lanes for free as well as park for free in city centers, the goverment of Norway made electric cars irresistable to people others should take note.


I see. "Are you a rich fuk that can afford 100k€ car? Oh, yeah, here, have some benefits!" is the new rhetoric of socialists. The truth at last, that these commies were never about the working class, but their own rich fat pockets is finally coming to the light...

By the way: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/06...s-as-much-co2-as-8-years-of-gasoline-driving/


----------



## fountainkopf

Ondro said:


> Off course he is not greedy and his company is overvalued and overhyped. He had never ever reached a profitable month, Tesla is hype scam. That is why he needs his workers to work in bad conditions. So he can fulfill his wet dreams and parazit on the society along the way.
> 
> 
> I see. "Are you a rich fuk that can afford 100k€ car? Oh, yeah, here, have some benefits!" is the new rhetoric of socialists. The truth at last, that these commies were never about the working class, but their own rich fat pockets is finally coming to the light...
> 
> By the way: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/06...s-as-much-co2-as-8-years-of-gasoline-driving/



Many would find this sufficient to commute; https://www.carthrottle.com/post/sam-reborn-as-re-volt-in-poland/


Even this; http://www.autocarpro.in/news-national/swedish-electric-wheeler-brand-zbee-enters-india-10443


----------



## Ondro

^^ Except it is absolutely useless for anything else. Would rather buy a scooter, which is ten times cheaper and has the same advantages and benefits... Even more, because it is smaller, it can avoid traffic jams even where there is no bus lane.

Maybe that is why the 8 years old Polish tricycle-thingy has closed down its business in 2015... http://www.revoltev.com/ And that Swedish thingy is rarer than Teslas on European roads...


----------



## Ondro

Neufunk said:


> Or just nuclear.
> 
> 
> Renewables are expensive and you cannot trust them. Besides, they also have very adverse effects on the landscape and the environment.


Only if we stop the fearmongering and start building Fast Breeder Reactors right now or in 10 years time scale. Problem is a low percentage of fissile Uranium in the Uranium ore, only 0,7%. Fission reactors work with uranium oxide enriched(of U235 isotope, the most common isotope is U238) to 2,5-5%. Fast breeders are reactors with enrichment of the ore >90%, use molten salt as a coolant and have walls out of U238 that they transmutate to PU239. Because there is literally 100 times more U238 than U235 and the cross-section(probability) of fission by fast neutrons is low(something like 100x lower) compared to the cross-section, they can produce more fuel than what they consume.
Here is the estimated supply of uranium










snot said:


> Renewables are getting cheaper and now already competitive with fossils.


HAHAHA, no. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_returned_on_energy_invested
EROEI of solar 6, EROEI of wind 18, EROEI of oil 20, EROEI of coal 80. Even though:
https://ourfiniteworld.com/2016/12/21/eroei-calculations-for-solar-pv-are-misleading/
They are still far from competitive to oil and coal, and they are subsidized...
Plus, they have a million problems. 
In the industrial scale, you can not really substitute oil and the industrial oil use makes up 20% of CO2 emissions. The household emissions make up only 6% of CO2 emissions. With clean energy you won't certainly ever replace oil in transportation sector(because the biggest CO2 emitters are ships and planes), which makes up of 22% of CO2 emissions and you can only slightly cut CO2 emissions of electricity production(only by the household electricity consumption). Sources for these numbers are here http://whatsyourimpact.org/greenhouse-gases/carbon-dioxide-emissions It is because of the electrical grid and its stability. There is a problem with solar and wind power and it is that power from it fluctuates heavily and it is very unpredictable. You can read about the fluctuation here http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1367-2630/18/6/063027 or less scientifically here(this webpage also describes how they try to predict the fluctuations) https://www.siemens.com/innovation/...ainable-power-generation-neural-networks.html or here(this article discusses the economic impact of "green" energy) https://oneinabillionblog.com/energ...-renewables-on-electricity-prices-in-germany/ or if you search for it on the internet literally almost everywhere, since it is a big issue.
Long story short - the grid stability is a big issue. The electricity grid does not cope easily with fluctuations and they have to be compensated somehow. The only two ways how to do this are by pumping hydro power stations or by fossil fuel power stations. The latter is economically more feasible and more efficient, while the former is expensive as hell, not very efficient, needs a huge landwork that comes hand in hand with damage on local countryside and ecosystem and so on... That is why the most used method is to regulate using coal. This led to what is known as "german paradox" - where the percentage of "clean" energy out of the total energy generated is rising, but the carbon emissions are rising as well. https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/german-carbon-emissions-rise-2016-despite-coal-use-drop

There were studies about the use of electric cars as energy storage, but that wet dream has a few catches. First is, that it would mean that all of us are going to give up our freedom and commit to North Korea-like dictatorship and resource-planning when the government is forcing us to limit usage of our(also, *this has to be enforced globally*, not only in Europe and the US and China, the biggest world CO2 emittor gets a free pass... That would also mean to stop development of the developing countries and conserving third world into the current state forever) cars and have them connected to the grid for some time a day because of uncertain dystopic future predictions that we can not be sure if they are right and we can not be sure we will even stop by this action(since the CO2 levels may be rising in the current tempo not only because of the human activity, but because of the positive feedback loop only started by human activity, but caused only by melting of the ice and ocean CO2 cycle - CO2 gets absorbed in the oceans, the plankton metabolises it, plankton dies, the CO2 gets trapped in the depth of the ocean and below the ice, then when the temperature rises, the ice melts releasing the trapped CO2 causing more temperature rise and more ice melting etc. etc.). Plus, the batteries have huge catastrophic environmental impact when manufactured and when they end their lifecycle.


----------



## wjfox

*Elon Musk Just Revealed a Major Tesla Model 3 Event Coming Soon*

By Mike Brown 9h ago

The wait is almost over. Tesla CEO Elon Musk revealed on his Twitter page Sunday evening that the Model 3 has passed all regulatory requirements “two weeks ahead of schedule,” and the first production car should arrive shortly. To celebrate, Musk has announced possibly the most hotly anticipated event in the Model 3’s journey: the launch party.

The Model 3 is an important moment for Tesla. *The entry-level sedan will start at $35,000, far cheaper than the company’s current cheapest car, the $68,000 Model S. The release opens Tesla up to a far wider market*, and demand is expected to be high for a vehicle made by a company that, until now, has only made electric vehicles priced at a premium. 

https://www.inverse.com/article/33680-elon-musk-major-tesla-model-3-event


----------



## FLAWDA-FELLA

^^ After the U.S. government tax incentive of $7,500 that will be available to potential buyers, the Model 3 will actually cost nearly $28,0000 vice $35,0000. kay:


----------



## womfalcs3

1.) There are studies that show the amount of CO2 produced in making the batteries that go into these cars offsets the CO2 saved by not burning gasoline. Popular Mechanics recently estimated 2.5 years required to offset the CO2 emissions of a gasoline-powered car: http://www.popularmechanics.com/car...7039/tesla-battery-emissions-study-fake-news/. Of course, this value can go up or down, depending on the size of the EV and conventional vehicle being displaced, and the amount of driving.

2.) EVs today are impractical since they will rely mostly on fossil fuels indirectly (so they will contribute CO2 emissions themselves). You'll increase the load by charging your EV, which is likely being met by natural gas or coal. You also have the losses incurred in transmission and distribution to contend with. 

Once/if your power generation is coming from renewables, then it may make sense (if you displace 2.5 years worth of driving to offset the CO2 produced from the battries' manufacture).


----------



## Swede

womfalcs3 said:


> Once/if your power generation is coming from renewables, then it may make sense (if you displace 2.5 years worth of driving to offset the CO2 produced from the battries' manufacture).


1. You assume the electricity comes from fossil fuels and the renewables are something that is coming later. Not so at all in many places. Hydro is huge in some parts and has been for decades & decades. Nuclear is also low in CO2. Sure, in Saudi it's all about the oil. But much of the world isn't swimming in oil (or coal), never have been. 

2. A good oil power plant can both reach efficiency that a car engine can't and can have exhaust control like a car can't. So even with a fossil fuel based power grid, you can get less harmful exhausts. 

That said, Saudi and it's neighbours are amazing places for renewables. Reliable solar ftw!


----------



## Swede

wjfox said:


> *Elon Musk Just Revealed a Major Tesla Model 3 Event Coming Soon*
> 
> By Mike Brown 9h ago
> 
> The wait is almost over. Tesla CEO Elon Musk revealed on his Twitter page Sunday evening that the Model 3 has passed all regulatory requirements “two weeks ahead of schedule,” and the first production car should arrive shortly. To celebrate, Musk has announced possibly the most hotly anticipated event in the Model 3’s journey: the launch party.
> 
> The Model 3 is an important moment for Tesla. *The entry-level sedan will start at $35,000, far cheaper than the company’s current cheapest car, the $68,000 Model S. The release opens Tesla up to a far wider market*, and demand is expected to be high for a vehicle made by a company that, until now, has only made electric vehicles priced at a premium.
> 
> https://www.inverse.com/article/33680-elon-musk-major-tesla-model-3-event


Considering the Model S is already (or was?) the leading model in Norway, I wonder how common the Model 3 will do there.


----------



## KOZIMIERZ

Ondro said:


> No. Because it does not matter if you are transporting fuel into a gas station near a road or into an electric power plant, you still have to transport the fuel from a refinery into the power plant.


First of all it you do have to account for it because fuel is not transported directly from refinery but is often unloaded and loaded in an intermediate point(usually from a train). Also you usually transport very big amounts of fuel for power plants using much more efficient transport like trains, barges and ships instead of trucks.



Ondro said:


> As for the efficiency, the argument that the efficiency of an engine is 40% only in the right conditions is a double-sided weapon, because the motor and the battery's efficiency is the declared number also only in the right conditions.


True but (depending on the type of motor) it can be a efficient in very wide spectrum of conditions. Also you do not need to oversize the motor as much as ICE because you get high torque on low RPMs. 



Ondro said:


> Plus, a battery degrades and loses its efficiency really fast. Also, a battery loses charge over time, this effect is most prominent in a cold weather, so all these fancy scandinavian electric cars have in fact much lower efficiency than declared. Plus, gasoline cars in nordic countries can use the waste heat for heating up the interior of the car. Electric cars have to drain battery for that. That makes combustion engines in the northern climate even more efficient and batteries even more inefficient.


Power stations use waste heat to provide heating for housing and industry - this definitely beats heating a little car. Plus the batteries do not degrade as fast as you suggest - you can use it for quite a few years. Plus when it is heated during discharge you get your "lost" energy back.


----------



## Ondro

The declared lifetime of a battery is 8 years. During the 8 years, the efficiency of the battery degrades. A new battery can have an efficiency of 80%, an old, used battery can have efficiency of below 50%. A combustion engine does not degrade so fast. It is very safe to say, that a car has the same efficiency 8 years old as new with the right maintenance. You can not maintain a battery.



KOZIMIERZ said:


> Power stations use waste heat to provide heating for housing and industry - this definitely beats heating a little car. Plus the batteries do not degrade as fast as you suggest - you can use it for quite a few years. Plus when it is heated during discharge you get your "lost" energy back.


This is not about the waste heat from the power station, my argument was, that an electric car has a much lower efficiency in cold thanks to the lower capability of the battery to hold the charge. Plus, if you don't want to freeze, you have to turn on the heat in the electric car, that drains the battery. On the other hand, a gasoline car has an advantage of heating up the interior in the cold. Yes, in hotter conditions this advantage of a combustion engine is mitigated. This is to your "combustion engine has lower efficiency than declared" - electric car has too, comparable, sometimes even lower.



KOZIMIERZ said:


> First of all it you do have to account for it because fuel is not transported directly from refinery but is often unloaded and loaded in an intermediate point(usually from a train). Also you usually transport very big amounts of fuel for power plants using much more efficient transport like trains, barges and ships instead of trucks.


OK, then account for the negligible distance from the distribution point to the gas pump by truck. An average truck drinks around 35l per 100km, an average fuel tank it can carry is around 20,000l. That is if the distance to the gas station from the distribution point is 100km, the efficiency of the transport is 99.8%. An average efficiency of an electric distribution network is around 90%... .6*.9*.95*.7=.36, that is the efficiency of a new electric car in standard conditions running on electricity from an oil power station, an ordinary car has efficiency of .4*.99(if the distr. c. is 500km away, which is most of the times closer than that)=.399...

Anyway, the former sentence stated that an electric car is ten times more efficient than a gasoline-powered car. You must agree that that sentence is serious BS and the car would have to multiply energy to achieve that.


Dmerdude said:


> Irrelevant. The point was that a lot of countries still have a lot more potential for developing hydro.


No, it is relevant. Even if it was irrelevant, the countries with a high hydro potential will be third world countries and places far from developed world. It still wouldn't be enough to fullfill the demand. Even if it was, there is the distribution problem. The same problem as why there are not just two huge solar power plants, one in Sahara, the second in Gobi, to fullfill the demand for the whole world.


----------



## KOZIMIERZ

Ondro said:


> The declared lifetime of a battery is 8 years. During the 8 years, the efficiency of the battery degrades. A new battery can have an efficiency of 80%, an old, used battery can have efficiency of below 50%. A combustion engine does not degrade so fast. It is very safe to say, that a car has the same efficiency 8 years old as new with the right maintenance. You can not maintain a battery.


Could you please provide a source for your claim that the efficiency is around 80% and drops to 50% after 8 years of use(I think this shall be given in charge/discharge cycles rather then time anyway). I am more familiar with the numbers being 90% new to 80% at the end of design lifetime.



Ondro said:


> This is not about the waste heat from the power station, my argument was, that an electric car has a much lower efficiency in cold thanks to the lower capability of the battery to hold the charge. Plus, if you don't want to freeze, you have to turn on the heat in the electric car, that drains the battery. On the other hand, a gasoline car has an advantage of heating up the interior in the cold. Yes, in hotter conditions this advantage of a combustion engine is mitigated. This is to your "combustion engine has lower efficiency than declared" - electric car has too, comparable, sometimes even lower.


You could possibly use the battery/motor cooling system to provide heating in the cabin. 
My point was you heat your home instead of a car so this can be included into the equation. 
I do not think the efficiency drops with temperature significantly (I thought it works the other way around - the hotter it gets the faster the reaction the more energy you loose through discharge - this is about 1.5% per month loss though so insignificant) however I might be wrong. I am aware of capacity dropping with dropping temperature.



Ondro said:


> OK, then account for the negligible distance from the distribution point to the gas pump by truck. An average truck drinks around 35l per 100km, an average fuel tank it can carry is around 20,000l. That is if the distance to the gas station from the distribution point is 100km, the efficiency of the transport is 99.8%. An average efficiency of an electric distribution network is around 90%... .6*.9*.95*.7=.36, that is the efficiency of a new electric car in standard conditions running on electricity from an oil power station, an ordinary car has efficiency of .4*.99(if the distr. c. is 500km away, which is most of the times closer than that)=.399...


Actually it is 99,65% for 100km and 98,25% for 500km in accordance to your assumptions. That will give your (magic) ICE car 39,3%. 

As I stated before there is no way you are getting 0.4 from your car IRL. Just not going to happen. Electric cars do not use any energy on idle AND they recharge when braking as well. Where is the 0.95 and 0.7 coming from?



Ondro said:


> Anyway, the former sentence stated that an electric car is ten times more efficient than a gasoline-powered car. You must agree that that sentence is serious BS and the car would have to multiply energy to achieve that.


Agreed. I would be surprised if the difference is more than 5 percentage points to be honest.


----------



## Ondro

KOZIMIERZ said:


> Could you please provide a source for your claim that the efficiency is around 80% and drops to 50% after 8 years of use(I think this shall be given in charge/discharge cycles rather then time anyway). I am more familiar with the numbers being 90% new to 80% at the end of design lifetime.


I would love to speak in terms of cycles, but car manufacturers work with years, with Tesla giving the figure of 8 years and another around 5 years.
An energy efficiency of an average Li-Ion battery, measured, is 75% http://ecee.colorado.edu/~ecen2060/materials/lecture_notes/Battery3.pdf
Yes, Tesla states their battery is above 90% efficient, but Tesla costs more than a house. A Nissan Leaf won't have this big of an efficiency. 
The 50% figure is an informed estimate based on real life experience with batteries in real conditions, i dont work with it anyway, it is only to counter your estimate of efficiency of ice.




KOZIMIERZ said:


> You could possibly use the battery/motor cooling system to provide heating in the cabin.


No, you can't. If you could, you wouldn't be using electric fans to cool things. Because the actual power you get from the motor and battery isn't enough to warm so big of a volume as is in the car. For example, Nissan Leaf has 80kW motor. It does not run on full power all the time, so let's say it uses 40kW on average. If we use the 95% of efficiency figure for a cheap electric motor, we have 2kW of waste heat from the motor on average. That would be enough to run a small heater, if it was an electric output. The problem is, that it is not. It is heat output that has to firstly heat up the mass of the motor and dissipate into the metal plates that has to be cooled. If the block of the motor is made from aluminium, it has heat capacity of 0.91kJ/(kg*K), if from other metals, the capacity can be lower. If the motor weights 50kg(I don't know how much the motor of Nissan Leaf weights), that means it will use 45.5kJ per kelvin of heating up. With motor producing 2kW of power, that is 2kJ/s of power, it will heat the motor up 1K after ~23s. Lets say you want to heat up the interior from 0°C to 20°C. That means the motor will have to work 23*20=460s=7.7min to heat up just the block of a motor without heat loss. That means 7.7min without heat in the cabing. How long are you planning to use your Nissan Leaf? It is a shopping cart, good for short city drives...





KOZIMIERZ said:


> I do not think the efficiency drops with temperature significantly (I thought it works the other way around - the hotter it gets the faster the reaction the more energy you loose through discharge - this is about 1.5% per month loss though so insignificant) however I might be wrong. I am aware of capacity dropping with dropping temperature.


Yes, the capacity drops. Thanks to the reduction in charge carriers mobility. And if you charge your battery in the comfort of your heated up garage and take it into the cold, that means that if the capacity is suddenly lower, but you charged it to a higher capacity, you will get less juice out of it than you put into it. Hence an efficiency loss.  Btw, wikipedia states the self-discharge loss is abou 8% per month at room temperature: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery




KOZIMIERZ said:


> Actually it is 99,65% for 100km and 98,25% for 500km in accordance to your assumptions. That will give your (magic) ICE car 39,3%.


35/20000=0.00175=0.175%
35/20000-1=.99825=99.825%
how did you come up with 99.65% exactly?
Anyway, even the .35% loss on 100km is less than 10% loss in the power grid.



KOZIMIERZ said:


> Electric cars do not use any energy on idle AND they recharge when braking as well. Where is the 0.95 and 0.7 coming from?


Electric cars have to have their lights up when idling. They have to have their computer up when idling. The same for heating. Air conditioning. All that drains battery. Gasoline cars actually make electricity in their alternator when idling for all of this. Plus, they drink next to no fuel when idling. You are overestimating the idling energy loss the same way as you overestimated the truck transportation.

But in the end, I agree, that a gasoline engine will be less efficient than electric car, but the modern turbo-charged diesel engines with compression ratios above 16:1 will be a little more efficient. Off course, in the end the diesel engine will depend more on the driver than the electric engine(a good driver can cut the declared fuel consumption -
for example, I believe that a new Fiat Panda 1.3 Multijet with compression ratio 16.8:1 will have better efficiency than Nissan Leaf in the basic configuration - the Panda is capable of achieving fuel consumption of 3l/100km - this I actually tested and achieved in Italy two years back).








Here you can see that even for the cut-off ratio of 4, the diesel engine with compression ratio 16:1 has max. efficiency of around 50%, so 40% average efficiency is a good estimation, not at all magical.


----------



## KOZIMIERZ

Ondro said:


> I would love to speak in terms of cycles, but car manufacturers work with years, with Tesla giving the figure of 8 years and another around 5 years.
> An energy efficiency of an average Li-Ion battery, measured, is 75% http://ecee.colorado.edu/~ecen2060/materials/lecture_notes/Battery3.pdf
> Yes, Tesla states their battery is above 90% efficient, but Tesla costs more than a house. A Nissan Leaf won't have this big of an efficiency.
> The 50% figure is an informed estimate based on real life experience with batteries in real conditions, i dont work with it anyway, it is only to counter your estimate of efficiency of ice.


You use one of the cheapest electric cars for comparison, but get max theoretical efficiency for best engines for ICE. A little unfair ain't it? Throw in 90% for battery or get the ICE to 25%.



Ondro said:


> No, you can't. If you could, you wouldn't be using electric fans to cool things. Because the actual power you get from the motor and battery isn't enough to warm so big of a volume as is in the car. [cut]


ICE cars do not usually manage warm up during short city rides either. Even buses first circle are a bit cold. Talking from experience. So on longer rides (over 10min) you can use your waste heat for cabin heating especially if you take the heat from cooling the battery as well which you did not take into account. you should have about 1kW usable heat which is perfectly fine for a small car like leaf. If you own tesla though you can easily fry eggs 

And don't get me started on ICE efficiency when cold - especially diesel. This would ruin your argument for ICE on shorts distances.



Ondro said:


> Yes, the capacity drops. Thanks to the reduction in charge carriers mobility. And if you charge your battery in the comfort of your heated up garage and take it into the cold, that means that if the capacity is suddenly lower, but you charged it to a higher capacity, you will get less juice out of it than you put into it. Hence an efficiency loss.  Btw, wikipedia states the self-discharge loss is abou 8% per month at room temperature: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery


But the energy does not disappear. It is still in the battery and can be recovered after the battery temperature increases ( you can try it with a mobile phone). So the efficiency is not diminished only capacity is impaired. 



Ondro said:


> 35/20000=0.00175=0.175%
> 35/20000-1=.99825=99.825%
> how did you come up with 99.65% exactly?
> Anyway, even the .35% loss on 100km is less than 10% loss in the power grid.


The truck needs to go back as well...



Ondro said:


> Electric cars have to have their lights up when idling. They have to have their computer up when idling. The same for heating. Air conditioning. All that drains battery. Gasoline cars actually make electricity in their alternator when idling for all of this. Plus, they drink next to no fuel when idling. You are overestimating the idling energy loss the same way as you overestimated the truck transportation.


0.2kW for lights and computer is not a huge amount is it?

If I recall correctly the fuel usage on idle was about 1.5L per hour. So assuming you would be going 100km/h and using 6L/100km it gives you about 25% of fuel usage at idle. Fun fact in 1975 it was 3.6L/h (an old EPA study).



Ondro said:


> Here you can see that even for the cut-off ratio of 4, the diesel engine with compression ratio 16:1 has max. efficiency of around 50%, so 40% average efficiency is a good estimation, not at all magical.


That is exactly why power stations run diesels instead of steam turbines right? I do not disagree with a statement that it is possible to get 40% efficiency from ICE on a motorway in constant speed at the most efficient load. This probably can be done. But any other conditions and it is far from truth. Especially driving in the city.


----------



## Ondro

KOZIMIERZ said:


> You use one of the cheapest electric cars for comparison, but get max theoretical efficiency for best engines for ICE. A little unfair ain't it? Throw in 90% for battery or get the ICE to 25%


No. We are not comparing the most expensive engines either. We are not comparing old engines. You can not compare Tesla with Fiat Panda. You can compare it with Nissan Leaf. The both have the same purpose, same size and same engine power. The difference is, that the basic Panda costs 10 000€ less(without subsidies). That is also a factor. For 30k€ that you can buy basic Leaf you can buy Hyundai Tuscon in premium config with 2.0 diesel... Btw, max. theoretical efficiency is not 40% for diesel car with 16:1 compression ratio. Max theoretical efficiency for diesel is for industrial engines with compression ratios of 23:1... And yes,
they are small.
Yes, the engines of today are efficient. Because they had over 100 years of development in a free-market economy, which made them cheap and efficient. It is irrelevant that someone tries to sell high-end, best-of-the-best products with a net loss with government subsidies(and somehow manages to hype investors to cover for their losses). That does not make the product competitive. That just fcks up the economy.



KOZIMIERZ said:


> ICE cars do not usually manage warm up during short city rides either. Even buses first circle are a bit cold. Talking from experience. So on longer rides (over 10min) you can use your waste heat for cabin heating especially if you take the heat from cooling the battery as well which you did not take into account. you should have about 1kW usable heat which is perfectly fine for a small car like leaf. If you own tesla though you can easily fry eggs
> 
> And don't get me started on ICE efficiency when cold - especially diesel. This would ruin your argument for ICE on shorts distances.


Come on. If you ever had an old car, that has no A/C, year 2000-, you would know that heating up of the engine to the temperature that is sufficient for heating is like 2-3 minutes. Because, you know, the temperature inside the cylinder is over 700°C... Also, if you want to talk about modern high-end cars, assuming you want to compare them to Tesla... People in northern climates usually add an engine pre-heater... 

1kW of power after losses? That is too much. Maybe with the battery. Still too little power considering that cars are not the most air-tight vehicles in the world and leak heat as fast as a fat man's running when he sees a grilled bacon...






KOZIMIERZ said:


> The truck needs to go back as well...


An empty truck does not drink as much as fully loaded truck though... Also, it can take another kind of load on the way back. Or go to refill another gas station on the way taking the most effective route. People tend to do both.




KOZIMIERZ said:


> 0.2kW for lights and computer is not a huge amount is it?


That's why it also recharges its battery  Also, if you are running in summer with A/C on...



KOZIMIERZ said:


> If I recall correctly the fuel usage on idle was about 1.5L per hour. So assuming you would be going 100km/h and using 6L/100km it gives you about 25% of fuel usage at idle. Fun fact in 1975 it was 3.6L/h (an old EPA study).


Yeah. And from the overall time you are idling what? A few minutes. Also, modern cars have start&stop or the most people actually turn the engine off when stopping for more than a few minutes in a traffic jam... It is not that hard.





KOZIMIERZ said:


> That is exactly why power stations run diesels instead of steam turbines right? I do not disagree with a statement that it is possible to get 40% efficiency from ICE on a motorway in constant speed at the most efficient load. This probably can be done. But any other conditions and it is far from truth. Especially driving in the city.


3l/100km I achieved with Fiat Panda running 60km/h on average means around 43MJ accounting only for the drag and rolling resistance. 3l of oil has 107MJ in it. 107/43 is around 40%. Combined - city, mountains and highway. 1000km on one tank.


----------



## KOZIMIERZ

Ondro said:


> No. We are not comparing the most expensive engines either. We are not comparing old engines. You can not compare Tesla with Fiat Panda. You can compare it with Nissan Leaf. The both have the same purpose, same size and same engine power. The difference is, that the basic Panda costs 10 000€ less(without subsidies). That is also a factor. For 30k€ that you can buy basic Leaf you can buy Hyundai Tuscon in premium config with 2.0 diesel... Btw, max. theoretical efficiency is not 40% for diesel car with 16:1 compression ratio. Max theoretical efficiency for diesel is for industrial engines with compression ratios of 23:1... And yes,
> they are small.
> Yes, the engines of today are efficient. Because they had over 100 years of development in a free-market economy, which made them cheap and efficient. It is irrelevant that someone tries to sell high-end, best-of-the-best products with a net loss with government subsidies(and somehow manages to hype investors to cover for their losses). That does not make the product competitive. That just fcks up the economy.


Are you trying to tell me that panda has an average engine efficiency of 40%? 

I never said electric cars are an economical choice (they would be way cheaper if not for the battery). They are definitely not especially because half or more of fuel price is tax. If you add it to the electricity for your car it will make it all pointless. ICE cars are subsidized too but not on a customer level - it is taken care of on corporate level.



Ondro said:


> Come on. If you ever had an old car, that has no A/C, year 2000-, you would know that heating up of the engine to the temperature that is sufficient for heating is like 2-3 minutes. Because, you know, the temperature inside the cylinder is over 700°C... Also, if you want to talk about modern high-end cars, assuming you want to compare them to Tesla... People in northern climates usually add an engine pre-heater...


And separate oil heater for interior that engages 10min before you plan to use the car. That is not the point though. The point is you can easily use waste heat in electric car for heating. You may be in the cold for 2-3 minutes longer than with ICE car - agreed. 



Ondro said:


> 1kW of power after losses? That is too much. Maybe with the battery. Still too little power considering that cars are not the most air-tight vehicles in the world and leak heat as fast as a fat man's running when he sees a grilled bacon...


1kW heater is easily sufficient for smaller rooms. It should be sufficient for a little nissan leaf which is a size of a big wardrobe...



Ondro said:


> An empty truck does not drink as much as fully loaded truck though... Also, it can take another kind of load on the way back. Or go to refill another gas station on the way taking the most effective route. People tend to do both.


Ok now you are stretching the reality. What type of cargo are you going to fill a fuel truck with? Refill another station with what? You still need to go the depot to get your fuel. And surely even medium sized gas stations need a daily refill. 



Ondro said:


> Yeah. And from the overall time you are idling what? A few minutes. Also, modern cars have start&stop or the most people actually turn the engine off when stopping for more than a few minutes in a traffic jam... It is not that hard.


I have never ever seen anyone do it to be honest. Plus idling takes like a half of commute in big cities sometimes more (never been to 1h long traffic jam?)



Ondro said:


> 3l/100km I achieved with Fiat Panda running 60km/h on average means around 43MJ accounting only for the drag and rolling resistance. 3l of oil has 107MJ in it. 107/43 is around 40%. Combined - city, mountains and highway. 1000km on one tank.


Congratulations - you almost hit the Guinness record of 2.82l/100km. unfortunately most people struggle to achieve 6l/100km in the city. By the way was it on a motorway or in the city?


----------



## Ondro

KOZIMIERZ said:


> Are you trying to tell me that panda has an average engine efficiency of 40%?


Whats wrong with that? It has an engine with 16.8:1 compression ratio...



KOZIMIERZ said:


> 1kW heater is easily sufficient for smaller rooms. It should be sufficient for a little nissan leaf which is a size of a big wardrobe...


1kW heater does not heat up to 20°C. 1kW heater has a radiator that heats up so much that it glows red(red glow is associated with temperatures around 1000K). Hundreds of °C difference. Then it runs air through it and you get around 60°C air. An electromotor of Nissan Leaf power of 100kg with 95% efficiency heats up to 20°C after 7.7minutes. Asuming no losses and no cooling. I would assume, that if you actively cool it down with just an aerodynamic cooling with the air running around it as the car moves, even if it was possible, it would struggle to reach 20°C in 0°C environment for more than an hour. Again. You use fans to cool things. The motor for the fan is INSIDE the fan. The fan is made this way to cool the motor with the air running through it. And yet it manages to cool your stuff(for example processor). It does heat up a little, but not enough to significantly heat the air running around it. Really hot air, around 40 or 50°C exhausts only a locomotive motor with 4MW of power. Not a teeny tiny Nissan Leaf 80kW motor. Also, the battery has a bigger area and is heavier(don't know about the motor, but the battery is 48x3.8kg=182.4kg) . That means it will heat up longer and have bigger dissipation.




KOZIMIERZ said:


> I have never ever seen anyone do it to be honest.


Take a walk through Slovak or Czech city.





KOZIMIERZ said:


> By the way was it on a motorway or in the city?


We travelled around 900km. It was in 4 days and we were doing all kinds of routes. Highways, roads through hills and countryside, every day starting and ending in the city. It was combined consumption. And its advertised combined consumption is 3.6l/100km, out of the city 3.3... It is not that hard to go slightly below manufacturer advertised numbers. But generally, if you give me a Hyundai Tuscon, I can get your average from 7l/100km down to 6. 
By the way, one of the biggest contribution to energy loss when driving is the rolling resistance. The force of rolling resistance depends on the mass of the car. So a car weighting a ton will have less rolling resistance than a car weighting two tons. Together with drag, they are the most prominent and impotant and from a point(depending on wheel size, wheel pressure, road conditions, speed of the car and tyre type) the biggest factor is the rolling resistance, bigger than the aerodynamic drag(that is why a TGV locomotive with 8.8MW motor can achieve 320km/h while hauling 9 carriages, 23kW per ton, and a car with 50kW motor and a ton of mass will struggle to break 140km/h, because the train rolls steel on steel which has ten times less rolling resistance). So the Hyundai Tuscon with 1.6t will have 1.6 times the rolling resistance of the Panda with approx. 1t.


----------



## KOZIMIERZ

Ondro said:


> Whats wrong with that? It has an engine with 16.8:1 compression ratio...


Please note the average in my sentence. I can agree that it has a theoretical efficiency of 40% in the lab, but if you take in to account that RPM and load is changing plus some time for idling it will not be possible. 



Ondro said:


> 1kW heater does not heat up to 20°C. 1kW heater has a radiator that heats up so much that it glows red(red glow is associated with temperatures around 1000K). Hundreds of °C difference. Then it runs air through it and you get around 60°C air. An electromotor of Nissan Leaf power of 100kg with 95% efficiency heats up to 20°C after 7.7minutes. Asuming no losses and no cooling. I would assume, that if you actively cool it down with just an aerodynamic cooling with the air running around it as the car moves, even if it was possible, it would struggle to reach 20°C in 0°C environment for more than an hour. Again. You use fans to cool things. The motor for the fan is INSIDE the fan. The fan is made this way to cool the motor with the air running through it. And yet it manages to cool your stuff(for example processor). It does heat up a little, but not enough to significantly heat the air running around it. Really hot air, around 40 or 50°C exhausts only a locomotive motor with 4MW of power. Not a teeny tiny Nissan Leaf 80kW motor. Also, the battery has a bigger area and is heavier(don't know about the motor, but the battery is 48x3.8kg=182.4kg) . That means it will heat up longer and have bigger dissipation.


It is absolutely not important what the temperature is, as long as you get more energy pumped into the car then the loses through car shell and ventilation. You make an error in your fan example - the power of the fan needs only to be as big as required to move the air. That is not a lot and thus not a lot of waste heat is left in proportion to amount of cooling air passing through it. If you need to move a 1.5t car in addition to the air it's a bit different though. 




Ondro said:


> By the way, one of the biggest contribution to energy loss when driving is the rolling resistance. The force of rolling resistance depends on the mass of the car. So a car weighting a ton will have less rolling resistance than a car weighting two tons. Together with drag, they are the most prominent and impotant and from a point(depending on wheel size, wheel pressure, road conditions, speed of the car and tyre type) the biggest factor is the rolling resistance, bigger than the aerodynamic drag(that is why a TGV locomotive with 8.8MW motor can achieve 320km/h while hauling 9 carriages, 23kW per ton, and a car with 50kW motor and a ton of mass will struggle to break 140km/h, because the train rolls steel on steel which has ten times less rolling resistance). So the Hyundai Tuscon with 1.6t will have 1.6 times the rolling resistance of the Panda with approx. 1t.


It depends on the speed of the car. The faster you go the more air drag is important - it raises to the square of the speed. There is another factor though and it is a little coefficient that is applied to this force and it is hugely dependent on the crossection area of the vehicle - of course bullet train being long and thin benefits a lot. So air drag for the bullet train is way smaller per ton then for Panda. Add streamlining of the body to the mix as well. The mass is not as important for high speeds - it is crucial for acceleration though as you really need so oversized engines in car to be able to accelerate quickly.

This guy has about 0.250kW, and goes on the sand (much worse then tarmac for rolling resistance+pneumatic tires) but still manages to get 180km/h with power to weight ratio of 0.025kW/t. Car weight to power ratio is 50kW/t and bullet train 23kW/t.





Also if you give your car an extra gear it may be able to do much higher speed. You will have to give it a lot of time though as power that is left for acceleration gets smaller as you go faster. So you may be able to get 200km/h but you will have to accelerate for 15min.


----------



## Ondro

KOZIMIERZ said:


> So air drag for the bullet train is way smaller per ton then for Panda.


Drag coefficient per ton does not make sense in this context, because the drag is not dependent on mass. It can have smaller drag coefficient per ton and it does, but that does not mean it feels less drag. But it will feel less rolling resistance, because that is dependent on mass. You end up comparing units that are not compatible.
And it does not have smaller drag coefficient. The longer train has bigger surface friction. Also, it is a long oval, more simmilar to a brick than slick Panda. This small car has an approximate friction coefficient of 0.35, a TGV according to wiki feels 9 metric-ton-force of drag at 460km/h. If you put the dimensions of a TGV into the formula for the friction coefficient, you will come up with numbers between 0.7 and 0.8(I did not find the exact numbers for the cross-section of the record-maker TGV, but the numbers for TGV POS you can come up with these numbers). 
That is why a long but pointy space shuttle had the nickname of "flying brick" and astronauts flying it practiced inside a plane with its gears down, flaps on and put on reverse. Because long things have huge surface friction.




KOZIMIERZ said:


> This guy has about 0.250kW, and goes on the sand (much worse then tarmac for rolling resistance+pneumatic tires) but still manages to get 180km/h with power to weight ratio of 0.025kW/t. Car weight to power ratio is 50kW/t and bullet train 23kW/t.


Actually, a bike tyre has an average rolling resistance that is 2.5-5 times less than a car tyre. 
And how did you exactly come up with this 0.025kW/t power ratio? Does he weight 10t? Because if he weights 100kg with the bike, the power/weight is 2.5kW/t...  
Also, a cyclist has 3-4 times the drag coefficient of a car.
Plus, he is being pushed by a vortex created by the truck. If you multiply 2(for the vortex push)x2.5*5(for the difference in rolling resistance)=25 you'll get +/- the same power as the car(in the same order of magnitude).
There is just a point where the many-variable function of rolling resistance that is dependent on mass, tyre type, tyre pressure, area, speed... just rises faster if you put into it variables with bigger norm than a one-variable funtion of speed.


KOZIMIERZ said:


> Also if you give your car an extra gear it may be able to do much higher speed. You will have to give it a lot of time though as power that is left for acceleration gets smaller as you go faster. So you may be able to get 200km/h but you will have to accelerate for 15min.


Pointless statement. The train is also geared for the operational speed of 320km/h. If you gear it differently, you can get higher speed out of it.



> heating


What could be dimensions of the air cooling intake on Nissan Leaf? 1mx10cm? On 50km/h drive, you'll be running 1400l of air through it every second. With 2kW of power, you have just heated the air running through your car 1.6°C. Yeah, you'll freeze to death. Also, the boot has around 300l of space, 700l with the back seats folded. That means the cabin has around 1000l of space over all. So if you don't let the cold air out of the cabin, during a ride at 50km/h you'll end up building up a pressure that will work against the pressure of incomming air after a few seconds, so you'll end up not letting any more hot air in(not as if it mattered, because the air won't be much hotter anyway). That is why you need to make the car not much air-tight, hence you'll experience huge losses.

You need to learn a lot of numbers to make an informed guess...


----------



## KOZIMIERZ

Ondro said:


> Drag coefficient per ton does not make sense in this context, because the drag is not dependent on mass. It can have smaller drag coefficient per ton and it does, but that does not mean it feels less drag. But it will feel less rolling resistance, because that is dependent on mass. You end up comparing units that are not compatible.


It is supposed to show how much air drag is encountered while moving one ton on different transport types. It will require more engine power to move a ton of cargo for Panda than for TGV because you generate more air resistance/t transported thus more energy/t must be used. Does it make sens to you now? 



Ondro said:


> And it does not have smaller drag coefficient. The longer train has bigger surface friction. Also, it is a long oval, more simmilar to a brick than slick Panda. This small car has an approximate friction coefficient of 0.35, a TGV according to wiki feels 9 metric-ton-force of drag at 460km/h. If you put the dimensions of a TGV into the formula for the friction coefficient, you will come up with numbers between 0.7 and 0.8(I did not find the exact numbers for the cross-section of the record-maker TGV, but the numbers for TGV POS you can come up with these numbers).
> That is why a long but pointy space shuttle had the nickname of "flying brick" and astronauts flying it practiced inside a plane with its gears down, flaps on and put on reverse. Because long things have huge surface friction.


But surface friction is only one of the variables in air drag. You completely disregard the pressure drag. I do not have a reliable information on proportions between them in relation to cars and trains as they depend on so many variables, but I would expect pressure drag to be way more important then friction judging on super fast cars designs that go into minimizing cross section area and front surface inclination angle rather than surface area. 
So that makes no sense - how did you come up with a coefficient where you have no data on the front pressure distribution? Look how streamlined it is. They spend 100k's EUR for wind tunnel studies to get the coefficient for those trains (and optimize it) and you state it is worse than Panda without any proper research.



Ondro said:


> Actually, a bike tyre has an average rolling resistance that is 2.5-5 times less than a car tyre.
> And how did you exactly come up with this 0.025kW/t power ratio? Does he weight 10t? Because if he weights 100kg with the bike, the power/weight is 2.5kW/t...


Yep a shameful mistake on my part. hno: I am sending myself to a brig for 30min. :bash:
As for rolling resistance please note he is going on SAND not tarmac. 
Anyway rolling resistance for a cyclists is only a very tiny fraction of total resistance at 180km/h. Agreed? If not stick your hand outside the car window on a German motorway or consult any professional cyclists (they get much higher speeds then mere mortals). 



Ondro said:


> Also, a cyclist has 3-4 times the drag coefficient of a car.
> Plus, he is being pushed by a vortex created by the truck. If you multiply 2(for the vortex push)x2.5*5(for the difference in rolling resistance)=25 you'll get +/- the same power as the car(in the same order of magnitude).
> There is just a point where the many-variable function of rolling resistance that is dependent on mass, tyre type, tyre pressure, area, speed... just rises faster if you put into it variables with bigger norm than a one-variable funtion of speed.


Really you are going to just assume 2 for the vortex and 3-4 times for the cyclists? Do you have any sources on that? The amount of force the vortex is giving to the cyclist may not be that big - it will only be proportional to the speed of vortex flow in the local coordinate system of truck-cyclist system. Hard to say how much is it at the point it hits the cyclists, but it can even be negligible if the cyclist happens to be in the center - being outside the center would be very dangerous due to instability of the air flow he could simply crash. Anyway we are starting to wonder into makebelieve world as without wind tunnel tests or at least a CFD calculation this speculations are not worth the electrons we spent .



Ondro said:


> Pointless statement. The train is also geared for the operational speed of 320km/h. If you gear it differently, you can get higher speed out of it.


Not if you approach the engine power = energy required to overcome drag point. And as I mentioned car engines are highly overpowered due to required rapid acceleration. I doubt TGV has 4s to 100km/h . And you need so much power even only to overcome the inertia.



Ondro said:


> What could be dimensions of the air cooling intake on Nissan Leaf? 1mx10cm? On 50km/h drive, you'll be running 1400l of air through it every second. With 2kW of power, you have just heated the air running through your car 1.6°C. Yeah, you'll freeze to death. Also, the boot has around 300l of space, 700l with the back seats folded. That means the cabin has around 1000l of space over all. So if you don't let the cold air out of the cabin, during a ride at 50km/h you'll end up building up a pressure that will work against the pressure of incomming air after a few seconds, so you'll end up not letting any more hot air in(not as if it mattered, because the air won't be much hotter anyway). That is why you need to make the car not much air-tight, hence you'll experience huge losses.


I doubt it will be so big. Outlet in the cabin would be like twice 50x50mm. You need to account for backpressure in ducting, grilles and filters though - please note that most cars use a fan to ventilate the cabin though and do not rely on outside pressure - this is done to keep the flow steady and independent of car speed. The energy delivery system is not important though as long as you recognize a pesky thermodynamic law stating that sum of energy in a closed system is constant. As the system is not closed we need to add only as much energy as we loose to the atmosphere to keep temperature constant - if we want it rise more energy is needed. So whether you have 700C heater or 25C heater is not relevant assuming the exchange area is sufficiently big. You do not need a fan at all (see floor heating that operates under 30C).
Your air exchange dilemma can be solved by arranging closed circuit heating system where air is heated within the car (this does not account for oxygen depletion though...). Something like putting a heat exchanger spiral sticking from the middle of back seat with a fan on it. Then you close the windows and air outlets. Then you put 30mm of rockwool or thinsulate on all non glazed surfaces and you have a nice oven. You can isolate and insulate the boot as a bonus . Now you can calculate how much power is needed to heat the interior in 5min if you know the volume of the cabin and specific heat for air. Of course assuming no loses ( one can estimate loses knowing the area of plating and glazing though using simplified methods used in assessing buildings). Remember the car interior is quite airtight - there are seals on every edge of openings and the windows are bonded - if you damage a seal you will notice a very significant noise increase which is the air getting into the car due to the outside pressure.



Ondro said:


> You need to learn a lot of numbers to make an informed guess...


Nah, I don't need to learn them I would need to sit down and do the proper calculations - I do not have a whole weekend to spend on it though (or two years in case of the discussion on air drag...).


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## Ondro

^^Firstly, the coefficient of friction is just a simplyfication anyway. Yes, it is more complicated than that. And it does not work with turbulent flux. The turbulent flux can even make the drag smaller. That is why there are small holes in a golf ball. But, generally, it is safe to assume that the drag caused by the pressure on the tip of the locomotive is not a big factor, at least up to speeds of around 200km/h, because if it was, there wouldn't be trains like Railjet and locomotives like Eurosprinter or Vectron with nearly flat faceplate.

Also, I don't need to ask a professional cyclist, because I am one  I don't need to perform wind tunnel tests, because I have ridden enough kilometers behind trucks, cars or just drafting. And it is a big factor on cyclists, because cyclists in a normal riding position are concave shape. You could as well put a satellite dish on the top of the bike, would not make any difference. But the rolling resistance is the difference between hitting 60km/h on a road bike with 20mm wide road tyre and maintaining this speed and hitting 40km/h max with a MTB with 2.25" tyres. I have ridden enough kilometers on multiple tyres to know that(I know what you'll gonna say - "but the gearing ratio"... I have 44/10 hardest gearing ratio with 26" wheels on a MTB with 2.1" tyre giving you 66cm(diameter)*pi*4.4RPS=9.1m/s=33km/h, on the road bike 700x23 tyre with 52/11 gearing ratio means 70*pi*4.7=10.3m/s=37km/h, also the weight of the road wheels is around 1.9kg, the MTB wheels around 1.5kg/pair/, one MTB tyre weights around 500-600g, one road tyre 300g, not that big of a difference, yet the best you can get out of the MTB is 40 and the best you can get from the road bike is almost 60).

The bike tyre will have less rolling resistance on the sand than the car. The difference can be even higher than on the asphalt. Especially when you ride MTB tyres that are specially designed to have lower rolling resistance on soft grounds like dirt or sand.

Go google the dimensions of Nissan Leaf. 1x0.1m2 of intake is a reasonable estimate. Plus, you'll be running air between the car and the asphalt too.

I think it is time to end now. People tend to have physical intuition. A good physicist should have one. If you have one, you don't have to do higher math to estimate the result. Even the basic, high-school math proves you wrong. The "higher" math can only make the calculations more precise with a lower margin of error, completely pointless for any discussion. You don't need to calculate through navier-stokes if you want an estimate in the realm of orders of magnitude. Just be familiar with real-life examples.
Anyway, it is not as if it was relevant, since it is funny that you argue about the high-school simplyfications and when faced with calculations using them you start arguing about complex processes. You ask sources, yet you provided none, go against the basic wiki knowledge and you made no calculations even the high school ones apart from wrong multiplication of two numbers you just made up. The fact is, that the Panda has laboratory maximum effectivnes of between 50-60%, not 40%, as the Diesel cycle efficiency can tell you(the graph up above). The fact is, that the engine effectivness is related only to its RPM(and outer temperature, which is solved in expensive cars) and given by the compression ratio(and the cut-off ratio in diesel engines). The weight difference, that can be translated to shorter or longer time on less-effective RPMs in coombustion engines, is negligible and the most of the cars ridden are occupied. by 1-2 persons max. The speed difference, translated through gearing to RPM, is also negligible, since cars of today are geared for the speeds that are used on roads. The fact is, that batteries suck(we have never even touched their toxicity, dangerous self-ignition when damaged or environmentally heavy manufacture and disposal). The fact is, that the "gas distribution loss" is in the realm of rounding error in contrast to the electricity distribution losses. The fact is, that electric cars drain battery with all electronics they use while combustion engines recharge their battery to power the electronics. The fact is, that you can't get enough waste heat from the motor to power heating. So the 40% average is a reasonable estimate. Howgh.


----------



## GodIsNotGreat

*The economic black hole at the heart of the shift to electric vehicles*



> The ban on the sale of new diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040 is perhaps the most significant policy announcement made by the UK government in the past decade (with the possible exception of Brexit). It feels like a key moment for the fight against pollution and climate change, but the shift from petrochemicals to electric vehicles will be disruptive and extremely expensive. The ramifications need to be considered systematically.
> 
> The issue that springs most immediately to mind is that the UK’s national taxation system will experience a major shock. The government raised about £28 billion from fuel duties over 2016/2017. It is the largest component of indirect taxation and pulls in about the same as tobacco, alcohol, gambling and vehicle duties combined.


http://theconversation.com/the-econ...heart-of-the-shift-to-electric-vehicles-81959


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## wjfox

*Tesla Model S Sets New Record For Distance Traveled On One Charge*

By Grace Lisa Scott on August 5, 2017

On Friday, a Tesla club in Italy announced that they had driven a Tesla Model S 100D 670 miles on a single charge — a new record distance.

Tesla Owners Italia tweeted the news Friday with a photo of the vehicle display and a small explanation: “1078 km - 669.83 miles with Tesla ModelS 100D in a single charge by Tesla Owners Italy-Ticino-San Marino #teslarecord.”

Based on the photo of the display, it took 98.4 kWh of energy to go 670 miles, nearly double the usual efficiency of a Model S, which is 300 Wh/mi.

https://www.inverse.com/article/351...ew-record-for-distance-traveled-on-one-charge


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## The Polwoman

GodIsNotGreat said:


> http://theconversation.com/the-econ...heart-of-the-shift-to-electric-vehicles-81959




So funny, the company I do for a study right now has banned non-electric leasing cars altogether already, so in a few years the company is two decades ahead of the British and French government, but even more from some other, more lazy governments! 


And to be honest, I would not even dare to buy or lease a non-electric car in the future. Does not really bring anything positive for me, apart from the initial cost to buy it.


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## womfalcs3

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mazda-strategy-idUSKBN1AO0E7



> Mazda Motor Corp said it would become the world's first automaker to commercialize a much more efficient petrol engine using technology that deep-pocketed rivals have been trying to engineer for decades, a twist in an industry increasingly going electric.
> 
> The new compression ignition engine is 20 percent to 30 percent more fuel efficient than the Japanese automaker's current engines and uses a technology that has eluded the likes of Daimler AG and General Motors Co.





> A homogeneous charge compression ignition (HCCI) engine ignites petrol through compression, eliminating spark plugs. Its fuel economy potentially matches that of a diesel engine without high emissions of nitrogen oxides or sooty particulates.


This is all going according to plan. As EV costs decrease, the incumbent technology will eventually further decrease in costs in response, making it more competitive. EV's projected adoption is often exaggerated because of this.


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## goschio

Doesn't help, fuel cars will be banned within the next 20 years. 

Tesla is lucky, they can concentrate all their resources on the future while others still have to deal with the combustion customers. 

Volvo also going all electric within in a few years.


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## womfalcs3

goschio said:


> Doesn't help, fuel cars will be banned within the next 20 years.
> 
> Tesla is lucky, they can concentrate all their resources on the future while others still have to deal with the combustion customers.
> 
> Volvo also going all electric within in a few years.


They're only banned in a couple of developed countries last I heard (and by 2040 at that, which means governments that come in future years may reverse the ban.).

And Volvo has insignificant market share.


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## lawdefender

*EV Batteries: A $240 Billion Industry In The Making That China Wants To Take Charge Of*

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackpe...-billion-industry-in-the-making/#1abbc50f3f08

Shifting towards China

Battery technology originated in Japan; was then further developed by companies in Korea; and is now shifting strongly toward China. China’s cell production already has a larger share of global production than Japan’s, and China’s global market share is projected to rise to more than 70% by 2020.


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## lawdefender

*China And The U.S. Supercharge The Growing Global Electric Vehicle Industry*

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackpe...lobal-electric-vehicle-industry/#2b04efec2454


In May 2014, China’s State Grid announced that it would support the development of privately-owned distributed energy organizations, encouraging private companies to invest in electric charging stations. The unprecedented move on the part of the State Grid, one of China’s largest state-owned enterprises with a monopoly on electricity distribution, has spurred investment in the charging infrastructure by a wide range of companies and investors. Going forward, China’s goal is to have 4.8 million charging stations in operation by 2020, capable of meeting the needs of 5 million EVs.

In the United States, growth in charging stations has also shown significant growth. From 2010 through 2016, the number of charging stations in most parts of the country has increased by 125% or more per year. Retailers and hotel owners are installing charging stations to attract customers; more than 100 metropolitan cities in the U.S. have formed Clean Cities Coalitions — non-profit public and private partnerships that promote a clean environment — and are encouraging the installation of more chargers; and electric utilities, anxious to sell off-peak power, are investing in charging stations.


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## lawdefender

*Xiaopeng Motor's Beta Version*

https://www.xiaopeng.com/xpeng
The first type of Xiaopeng Motor's product is an electric SUV featured with high-tech, intelligent and stylish characteristics. It has powerful acceleration performance and considerable mileage. Equipped with multiple intelligent hardware and driving functions, Xiaopeng motor is both interesting and distinctive.

Mileage

300km
0-100km/h Acceleration Time

7.9s(2WD) 5.8s(4WD)

*Intelligent Driving in City*
During low speed driving, Xiaopeng motor can follow the front car autonomously. When you encounter a narrow parking space, it can park itself smoothly . If it is not convenient to get into the car, user can summon the car in distance by using keys or the Car Owner APP.

Intelligent Central Touchscreen
The 1080P HD display, 15.6 inches touchscreen and the top grade 8-core platform control most of the car’s functions and provide the intelligent entertainment system, combined with navigation, music and bluetooth phone, etc. In addition, users can download and install various applications authorized by the Xiaopeng Motor's Official through OTA.

Remote Control
Turning on the air-condition, controlling the charge, checking vehicle conditions, locating the car and navigation, taking and sharing photos all happen with a mobile client APP. Your car is always beside you!


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## womfalcs3

lawdefender said:


> *Beijing Converting 70,000 Taxis to Electric Vehicles*
> 
> 
> http://www.futureofeverything.io/2017/03/07/beijing-converting-70000-taxis-electric-vehicles/
> 
> 
> Electric vehicles (EVs) are expanding in availability and efficiency all over the world. Phasing out fossil fuelled powered transport is a long complex process. In Beijing, a city with world-beating smog problems, the 70,000 strong fleet of taxis are going electric. All newly registered or replaced vehicles within Beijing have to be electric taxis. The cost of the program will be around $1.3 billion, a drop in the ocean relatively speaking. An electric taxi costs around $20,000 in China and they’re immensely popular.


Great. For a country that is projected by the EIA to still generate over 50% of its electricity using coal by 2040...


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## Kyll.Ing.

womfalcs3 said:


> Great. For a country that is projected by the EIA to still generate over 50% of its electricity using coal by 2040...


Then again, the IEA has constantly underestimated the growth of solar power for the last decade or so. They're a little too conservative with their estimates.

Also, 50 % coal means 50 % not-coal, which is a huge leap forward from today. Either way, a coal power plant has much higher efficiency than an internal combustion engine, and it's easier to filter the emissions of one power plant than a million tailpipes...


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## lawdefender

*Xiaopeng Motor starting production
*

https://www.xiaopeng.com/news



Xiaopeng Automobile plans from August 2017 to August 2018, built medium production line, to achieve an annual output of 10,000 -30,000 units; from August 2018 to the end of 2020, reaching mass production capacity with an annual output of 50,000 to 100,000. By the end of 2020, production can reach 200,000 vehicles per year.


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## lawdefender

https://www.ft.com/content/00b36a30-a4dd-11e7-9e4f-7f5e6a7c98a2

Electric cars: China’s highly charged power play




The government reinforced its position in September when it announced a system of steadily increasing quotas that will reward carmakers for producing ever more battery-powered vehicles starting in 2019, while forcing them to buy EV “credits” from other producers for every conventional car they make.


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## womfalcs3

^^ For a country that produces more than half of its power from coal (that's likely to continue until 2040, even with the robust renewable power growth recently that will continue), it is more about self-sufficiency than it is about the environment.


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## lawdefender

*Shenzhen to test self-driving buses on two routes*
(Xinhua) 16:01, September 21, 2017

http://en.people.cn/n3/2017/0921/c90000-9272114.html

The South China city of Shenzhen, known for its high concentration of hi-tech companies, plans to open two self-driving bus routes by the end of 2017, Shenzhen Bus Group announced earlier this week.
Four smart buses will be put into operation on the routes. The first route, with ten stops stretching about three kilometers, will pass the campus of the Southern University of Science and Technology. The second route is yet to be confirmed.


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## wjfox

*Shell opens its first UK electric vehicle charging points *

Royal Dutch Shell has opened its first charging points for electric vehicles at UK filling stations in a further sign of the Anglo-Dutch group’s diversification beyond fossil fuels.

Drivers will be able to recharge EVs at 10 locations, mostly in London and south-east England, by the end of the year.

Read more: https://www.ft.com/content/c95af60c...egmentid=acee4131-99c2-09d3-a635-873e61754ec6


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## lawdefender

Guangzhou new energy buses 7777 (including pure electric vehicles, plug-in hybrids, non-plug-in hybrids and LNG) , accounting for 54.06% of the city's total number of buses.

In order to speed up the upgrade of pure electric buses, Guangzhou Municipal Development and Reform Commission in the "Guangzhou new energy vehicle development program (2017 - 2020)" indicated that Guangzhou will reach 100% use of pure electric buses by the end of 2020.


http://gz.southcn.com/content/2017-07/25/content_174922803.htm


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## lawdefender

www.nio.io/


Chinese NIO ep9 supercar

THE FASTEST ELECTRIC CAR IN THE WORLD

06:45.900
NÜRBURGRING NORDSCHLEIFE
LAP RECORD
GERMANY, MAY 12th 2017


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## lawdefender

Nio full electric SUV ES8 will released in China 2017-12-16

The new car will use pure electric system, equipped with front and rear dual-motor, using four-wheel drive, the maximum mileage of up to 400km, while supporting the battery exchange.


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## Anticalaca

womfalcs3 said:


> Great. For a country that is projected by the EIA to still generate over 50% of its electricity using coal by 2040...


I guess that's about to change too (the coal-only dependence) when the new supplies of russian gas finally enter in China.


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## Anticalaca

Just and example: a peruvian engineer made an E-Volkswagen Beetle, using the old model (wich was still in production in Mexico as far as 2003), and the result is oustanding, i think: the old beetle is like a modern car, with a smooth, modern engine. And, there are thousands of other E-Beetles around the world, maded individually. You can only think what could be done by a large-scale recycle of Beetles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e20hW-35EWA&t=206s


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## Slartibartfas

womfalcs3 said:


> ^^ For a country that produces more than half of its power from coal (that's likely to continue until 2040, even with the robust renewable power growth recently that will continue), it is more about self-sufficiency than it is about the environment.


It is certainly about both. Air pollution is so bad in major metropolitan areas that the government has enacted rules that are quite a problem for business, especially polluting one. So there are already costly environmental protection actions in place. A shift towards e-car could improve the situation and prevent the need for even more business stiffling interventions. 

I think you error is to think of environmental protection as some sort of luxury when it has become a pretty existential problem for China already, one of strategic importance.


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## lawdefender

China 100% Electric Bus Sales Grew To ~115,700 In 2016

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/02/03/china-100-electric-bus-sales-grew-115700-2016/


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## nazrey

*Perodua considers developing electric vehicles*
By AMIR HISYAM RASID - October 25, 2017 @ 10:50am



> TOKYO: National carmaker Perusahaan Otomobil Kedua Sdn Bhd (Perodua) is studying the introduction of its own electric vehicles in Malaysia.
> 
> Perodua Auto Corp Sdn Bhd vice president Datuk Zainal Abidin Ahmad said it must first suit the affordability of the market.
> 
> "We will see the possibility of bringing over the technology to Malaysia (from Japan).
> 
> "Most importantly, we will study the impact to our market, especially in terms of affordability and cost competitiveness," he said at the Tokyo Motor Show here today.
> 
> At the motorshow, Daihatsu, Perodua's technology and technical partner, showcased its concept cars, one of which is a commercial electric vehicle.
> 
> This is in line with its strategic direction moving forward, which is to produce high quality vehicles at affordable prices for Japanese market.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Malaysia National second carmaker - Perusahaan Otomobil Kedua Sdn Bhd (Perodua) - since 1993
> http://www.perodua.com.my/corporate/company
Click to expand...

https://www.nst.com.my/business/2017/10/294809/perodua-considers-developing-electric-vehicles


> http://autoworld.com.my/news/2016/10/06/bmw-partners-with-greentech-malaysia-for-charging-services/


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## nazrey

*BMW Partners With GreenTech Malaysia For Charging Services*
http://autoworld.com.my/news/2016/10/06/bmw-partners-with-greentech-malaysia-for-charging-services/










BMW Group Malaysia and Malaysian Green Technology Corporation (GreenTech) officially marked their partnership at the 7th International Greentech & Eco Products Exhibition and Conference Malaysia (IGEM), to offer the ChargeNow mobility service via GreenTech’s ChargEV platform.

This initiative is part of the BMW 360° ELECTRIC program and allows owners of BMW plug-in hybrid and electric vehicles like the i8, 330e and X5 xDrive40e on-the-go charging. With the BMW ChargeNow card, owners of these vehicles get access to the ChargEV partner charging stations 24/7. GreenTech currently has about 95 ChargEV charging stations in major urban centers and targets to install another 300 ChargEV stations by this year-end to meet its ultimate target of 25,000 charging stations by 2020. This is to support the expected growth of EV and hybrid vehicle ownership to about 100,000 vehicles in the next 5 years.


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## lawdefender

China Reveals NEV Quotas For Auto Manufacturers — 10% Of Annual Sales By 2019, 12% By 2020, But Nothing By 2018

https://evobsession.com/china-revea...rs-10-annual-sales-2019-12-2020-nothing-2018/


China has now released the new NEV targets, and they do indeed lack the earlier 8% quota for 2018, but leave the quotas for 2019 and 2020 in place.

Even with the 2018 requirements gone, though, the new auto manufacturer quotas are still pretty impressive — those operating in the country will be required to amass NEV credits equivalent to roughly 10% of annual sales in 2019, and equivalent to 12% in 2020.

In other words, foreign firms that want to sell in the world’s largest auto market will be heavily compelled to sell a lot of plug-in electric vehicles or hybrids, or at the least to purchase credits from those that do.


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## lawdefender

Changan Automobile aims to end sales of traditional fuel vehicles by 2025 and invest 100 billion Yuan (15 Billion USD) into electrification

https://evobsession.com/changan-aut...-billion-yuan-15-billion-usd-electrification/


The Chinese state-owned automobile manufacturer Changan Automobile (Changan Automobile (Group) Co., Ltd.) has announced that it will not sell any more traditional fuel vehicles by 2025.

On 19th of October 2017, Changan Automobile released the Changan Automobile New Energy Strategy, which it called the Shangri-La Plan at the China International Energy and New Energy Auto Exhibition (China EV100 forum 2017). The plan, split into four areas, broke down how the company planned to invest into the future of the brand.

Changan Automobile is one of four big Chinese automobile manufactures and in 2016 sold more than 3 million cars. The accouchement means that by 2025 Changan Automobile will sell only plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEV) and pure battery electric vehicles (EV).

*The CS15EV, an SUV that is supposed to have 350 km (217 miles) of range at 60 km/h.*










*The EADO EV, a sedan with a 200 km (124 mile) range.*











*The Benni EV, a compact car with a 210 km (130 miles) of range and half an hour charge time using a fast charger.*


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## Ingenioren

Ionity has started construction of 350kw ccs charging stations. 350kw charging is 3x faster than the Tesla supercharger and can give you 250km driving in just 10 minutes, it's getting closer to the convenience of petrol.


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## fountainkopf

But since Audi and Volkswagen have now much better batteries the tesla willl loose the game...and others as well ?


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## Arnorian

Batteries are waiting for the long-promised breakthrough. If/when it does happen IC cars are dead.


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## mopc

womfalcs3 said:


> The article correctly points out the constant over-estimation of EV adoption by global energy institutes.
> 
> Tesla is now delayed in making the 500,000 pre-ordered Model 3 cars. They're not planned to fulfill those orders until 2020. In the meantime, 15-17 million of gasoline-powered cars will be sold per year in the US. The 500,000 cars won't make a dent in gasoline demand.


If somebody predicted in 1995 that the internet would have global 90% penetration by 2005 (when it had 35%) would that mean that the internet is a failure?

So the key to make something a failure is to overestimate it. I overestimate that Africa will have 99% literacy rate in 2022. Therefore whatever progress they make, you can say it's a failure!!! Very easy!!!


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## mopc

The trend is far from pointing a flop in electric car production and sales:









https://www.statista.com/statistics...r-of-hybrid-and-electric-vehicles-since-2009/


So it took a few more years than some people were predicting back in 2011, who cares?


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## goschio

Electric cars building up a solid foundation now. Technology gets better and better each year and 500 and soon 800km driving distance are no problem anymore. In a few years an electric car will be the better option over a combustion car and sales will explode.


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## KOZIMIERZ

Unless there will be a breakthrough in battery technology or oil price will shoot up to 120USD/barrel again (or should I write 760 CNY/barrel nowadays?) it is only wishful thinking. If you take out Norway where the electric cars are bought almost exclusively because of the discriminatory government policies there is no market with substantial EV share (1.3 billion ICEV world wide to 1.2 million EV = 0.09% so statistical error range). 

And let me remind you that in most western countries over half of the price of fuel is TAX. If the EV share will start to be significant the monetary incentives provided by the governments (like purchase subsidy, lower road tax, free parking in city centers etc.) will be removed from EVs and the tax will be put on EV usage to account for the loss of tax on fossil fuels. And you will still get a bill for battery replacement (and probably disposal as well) after 8-10 years.

Do not get me wrong - I love true EVs (not hybrids - they are a sad joke) because of low maintenance, mechanical simplicity, high reliability, moving pollution from the city centre to power plants, low noise etc. but they make no economic sense.


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## lawdefender

*Chinese pure electric passenger vehicle mileage top 10 ranking
*
http://www.qd-ddqc.com/view/2100











1.北汽EU400

续航里程：460km










2. 比亚迪e6

续航里程：450km










3.国金GM3

续航里程：400km










荣威ei5

续航里程：400km











蔚来ES8

续航里程：355km










华泰XEV260

续航里程：332km


----------



## Architecture lover

I really like China's interest in this issue. A more mature approach, unlike unfortunately a lot of European countries (well one actually), we saw Germany signing the Paris agreement and then stepping away, and than coming back, but still very doubtful, it's ridiculous. Anyway, there are some great countries indeed, Norway the only one that deserves to be praised, the only people that put greater interest (mother Earth) in front of their personal interests.

Edit: There is a great interest in France aswell. Tesla might open a factory in there for the European market.


----------



## btrs

Too lazy to go through all 30+ pages of the thread, but has no one thought about hydrogen-based cars (with a fuel cell) ?

True, they have the disadvantage of having to store the hydrogen at high pressure or low temperature, but this problem exists as well with CNG-vehicles. However, once formic acid-technology takes off, we can use a liquid-based hydrogen instead, bypassing this issue.

On the plus side, refueling takes no more time than a conventional petrol-based refueling. And hydrogen is a better storage medium than huge battery banks next to wind turbines when supply exceeds demand.


----------



## goschio

If I am not mistaken, there will be a 10% electric vehicle quota in China from 2019 (12% in 2020). Keep in mind that China is by far the largest auto market in the world having major impacts on manufacturers. 

IMO, that will be the final breakthrough of the technology making EV mainstream.


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

btrs said:


> Too lazy to go through all 30+ pages of the thread, but has no one thought about hydrogen-based cars (with a fuel cell) ?
> 
> True, they have the disadvantage of having to store the hydrogen at high pressure or low temperature, but this problem exists as well with CNG-vehicles. However, once formic acid-technology takes off, we can use a liquid-based hydrogen instead, bypassing this issue.
> 
> On the plus side, refueling takes no more time than a conventional petrol-based refueling. And hydrogen is a better storage medium than huge battery banks next to wind turbines when supply exceeds demand.


Another problem with hydrogen (apart from the aforementioned difficulty of storing and transporting it - it will diffuse through most materials over time, since the molecules are so dang small) is the high cost of making it. The processes by which hydrogen is extracted have an energy efficiency of some 10 %, meaning you need to invest 10 kWh of electricity into making hydrogen you can burn for 1 kWh of energy. For electric vehicles, this efficiency is around 90-95 %.


----------



## KOZIMIERZ

Kyll.Ing. said:


> For electric vehicles, this efficiency is around 90-95 %.


That is not correct. You need to include the loses on the power station side and electricity transfer. This will drop the efficiency to at least under 60%.


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

KOZIMIERZ said:


> That is not correct. You need to include the loses on the power station side and electricity transfer. This will drop the efficiency to at least under 60%.


Depending on where you draw the system limit. If you assume that hydrogen extraction also requires electricity to be produced and transported, those losses will constitute a common component that can be removed from the comparison.


----------



## KOZIMIERZ

You do not need to use high amounts of electricity to produce hydrogen - for example steam reforming of methane is a popular method to manufacture the hydrogen on industrial scale.


----------



## antoinetonee

KOZIMIERZ said:


> You do not need to use high amounts of electricity to produce hydrogen - for example steam reforming of methane is a popular method to manufacture the hydrogen on industrial scale.


But it needs prodigious amount of heat even with very good commercially-available catalysts. Using microreactor for car fuel cell could make it work though but it still doesn`t offer simplicity like electric car does and it is rather hard to be maintained.


----------



## KOZIMIERZ

It does but heat can be produced with efficiency close to 100% while electricity usually only 55-60%.


----------



## snow is red

*BYD’s new energy passenger vehicle sales soar 117% year on year in April*

May 09,2018

Shanghai (Gasgoo)- BYD delivered 37,363 vehicles in April with a MoM slide of 13.4% in April, according to BYD's April report released on May 9. However, its cumulative sales reached 149,140 units till April.

As to new energy passenger vehicle (PV), BYD sported a remarkable YoY sales surge of 117% to 13,105 units in April, while its cumulative sales totaled 41,604 units. To be specific, BYD saw a MoM sales leap of 21.2% in pure electric PV to 5,657 units in April. By April, BYD sold 10,972 pure electric PVs cumulatively. BYD posted a MoM sales slump of 11.8% in PHEV to 7,448 units in April.

When it comes to traditional fuel-powered vehicles, BYD still suffered sales decline of 19.8% compared with March to 23,445 units. 

In terms of specific models, the BYD Qin and Song DM posted respective deliveries of 4,134 units and 3,137 units in April. What’s more, the EV family launched in March also boasted a robust YoY sales growth of 42% to 5,657 units.

http://autonews.gasgoo.com/new_energy/70014611.html


----------



## womfalcs3

KOZIMIERZ said:


> You do not need to use high amounts of electricity to produce hydrogen - for example steam reforming of methane is a popular method to manufacture the hydrogen on industrial scale.


I am not sure about the amounts, but hydrogen gas is also a by-product of oil refineries.


----------



## lawdefender

- edit: please do not copy whole articles into the forums. Only use: title, abstract/first paragraph, link to the full article, thanks


----------



## KOZIMIERZ

So they have 385000*0.99=381150 electric busses.
This means that they have 381150/0.17= 2242058 busses in total.
Of which 2242058*0.83=1860908 run on diesel.
1000 busses use 500 barrels per day. This means they use 0.5 barrel per day per bus.
1860908*0,5= 930454 barrels per day used by busses alone.
1kg of fuel oil equals 1.52 kg of coal equivalent. this means that they need to increase coal purchases for their powerplants by 930454*1.52/1000=1414t/day to power the buses... Bullish for coal?

I know, I know huge oversimplification.


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

KOZIMIERZ said:


> So they have 385000*0.99=381150 electric busses.
> This means that they have 381150/0.17= 2242058 busses in total.
> Of which 2242058*0.83=1860908 run on diesel.
> 1000 busses use 500 barrels per day. This means they use 0.5 barrel per day per bus.
> 1860908*0,5= 930454 barrels per day used by busses alone.
> 1kg of fuel oil equals 1.52 kg of coal equivalent. this means that they need to increase coal purchases for their powerplants by 930454*1.52/1000=1414t/day to power the buses... Bullish for coal?
> 
> I know, I know huge oversimplification.



It's still easier to filter the emissions of one coal power plant than half a million tailpipes.


----------



## goschio

^
And the coal power plant can be outside of the city and have higher chimney so pollutants are not were people live and breathe. In the long terms, all electricity shall com from renewables and advanced nuclear fusion though.


----------



## lawdefender

According to the Shenzhen Communications Committee, up till now,* Shenzhen has 16,000 new energy buses, 100% pure electric power except for emergency transport capacity; the number of pure electric logistics vehicles exceeds 35,000, including 11,000 for road transportation permits. More than 13,000 pure electric taxis, reaching 65% pure electrification of taxis, and approximately 40,000 charging stations of various types were built.*

http://auto.sina.com.cn/news/hy/2018-05-24/detail-ihaysvix9472182.shtml


----------



## satyendra.singh

This surely is a leap ahead of today's cars. I wish they depend more on renewable energy in future.


----------



## KOZIMIERZ

Please note that this Chinese EC revolution is government only - there is an order and it is executed no matter the cost - loss is covered later by the taxpayer. It makes absolutely no economic sense for private citizens to use electric cars absent government subsidies and tax rebates. 

Anyway rate at which they changed all the busses to electric is quite impressive.


----------



## goschio

^
It makes allot of sense on a national economic basis. Think about all the negative effects of petrol cars driving in cities. China is currently choking on pollution with disastrous effects on health and business activity. 

Further, by promotion an electric revolution, China can easily break the technological dominance of the established manufacturers and compete with their own brands.

The money spend to promote electric cars will be very well invested.


----------



## KOZIMIERZ

That is at best an unsubstantiated speculation. The dominance is there not because of the engine type - the established western manufacturers have the technology, capital and capacity to switch fully to electric cars in a very short time. Plus they have full "support" of the governments including provision of taxpayer funds to make the switch faster and cheaper to shareholders. The issue lies in electric vehicles being uneconomical in comparison to ICE powered ones both in purchase price and in use. The pain has not yet been felt by the owners as they still have a year or two till the battery capacity starts falling drastically and they pay no taxes on vehicle use and purchase - they even get subsidised.
The only way to make the "revolution" really happen is to have governments ban ICE in the cities or tax them out of existence. Of course it will cause the price of travelling by car to increase substantially.

And no range is not the issue. One can just double the battery capacity, however it will increase already exorbitant price by almost 30% (22500USD for a leaf or 6500USD for battery).


----------



## goschio

Pollution is unsubstantiated speculation? Chinese cities are choking and switching to electric cars will improve air quality quite substantially. Chinese government has to do something. 

Technological lead of established manufacturers is unsubstantiated speculation? By switching directly to electric, Chinese manufacturers won't have to catch up with established manufacturers but can become technological leader straight away. That's the plan of the Chinese government. Of course established manufacturers can catch up but they won't have the advantage of being technological leader. For example, German manufacturers research in diesel engines will become worthless. For them the electric revolution is a major nuisance. 

So electric cars are a win/win strategy for China. For the individual it maybe uneconomical but from a national economic standpoint its the best solution. 


High oil price will give electric cars a good boost now. Once they have good range and price I will buy one.


----------



## KOZIMIERZ

goschio said:


> Pollution is unsubstantiated speculation? Chinese cities are choking and switching to electric cars will improve air quality quite substantially. Chinese government has to do something.


No that is not what I meant. I was refering to the rest of your post The main source of pollution in China is industry and coal burning though not car/bus transport. Plus you can switch ICE to LNG which is one of the cleanest sources of energy. Especially good for busses.



goschio said:


> Technological lead of established manufacturers is unsubstantiated speculation? By switching directly to electric, Chinese manufacturers won't have to catch up with established manufacturers but can become technological leader straight away. That's the plan of the Chinese government. Of course established manufacturers can catch up but they won't have the advantage of being technological leader. For example, German manufacturers research in diesel engines will become worthless. For them the electric revolution is a major nuisance.


China breaking the dominance of leading manufacturers is unsubstantiated speculation. The technology is not a problem and haven't been for the last 100 years. The only innovation is battery technology like LI-Ion or LI-Po so the leading car manufacturers have nothing to catch up to.
Please note that the leading manufacturer of electric vehicles on the global market with the best technology are Siemens, Alstom, Bombardier and Hitachi. Chinese would need to compete with them in the field of technology not with automakers. And they are in the forefront of both innovation and reliability in this field. But it just makes no economic sense to use EVs so they do not really bother with this market for now. 



goschio said:


> So electric cars are a win/win strategy for China. For the individual it maybe uneconomical but from a national economic standpoint its the best solution.


And who is going to pay for the national economic standpoint? Taxpayer of course. Government officials are quick to make this kind of decisions as they are not the ones paying for it. If they run out of money, they will increase the taxes and even pay themselves a nice bonus for saving the budget while being so green. They do not care that the people will be even poorer and less of them will be able to afford transportation. These are the real effects of running uneconomical policies. 




goschio said:


> High oil price will give electric cars a good boost now. Once they have good range and price I will buy one.


So it looks like we agree that it makes no economic sense to use one? They are 2-3 times the cost (even when subsidised) if you compare like for like aren't they? It is the same with the magic Chinese bus revolution but people do not feel the pain directly because they do not know how much they overpay for transportation if the real price is hidden by tax subsidies.


----------



## mopc

Moron moroning on moron media

https://www.smh.com.au/business/com...-silicon-valley-20180528-p4zhup.html#comments


----------



## Anticalaca

Any improvement of quality in transport at a razonable cost is well tax-paid money, if you ask me. That's the reason that local and federal governments spend in public transport; because positive externalities and scale. And China seems to be the best example of a well-planned G spending, in transport and else.

What's more, many of the new technologies that came out in America, for example, are direct consequence of government spending in the military section, wich is also government spending, obviously.


----------



## Arnorian

Musk is right to be mad at media. They have been making big deal about every accident a Tesla vehicle was involved in. I remember when a Tesla's battery got punctured by metal waste on the road, got on fire, but stopped and told the passenger to get out. Meanwhile who knows how many petrol cars burst into flames while switched off because of mechanical faults their makers decided were cheaper to pay the damages for than recall the models. Not a squeak.


----------



## Ni3lS

Yea.. what's the saying again? A big tree attracts the woodsman's axe. You can't PR your way out of big quality and production problems and not expect the media to take a swing at you when things go bad. The article screenshot above is quite harsh, but not completely inaccurate. Having worked in automotive media and with Tesla in particular in the past, I can tell you they are very unorthodox when it comes to media. They simply don't invite journalists that have criticized the brand in the past and tend to focus on non-automotive media that stay relatively superficial in their reviews and attract a broader audience. I get it, in these times it makes sense and there is a need to wow potential buyers that fall outside the car enthusiast circle. That's relatively simple to do when you position yourself as the cool new kid on the block with 'innovative' products. It's also a good strategy to duck the traditional automotive media that will turn cars inside out and highlight any imperfections. Tech blogs like the Verge and Mashable never get beyond 'oh wow, there's a lot of cool tech in this car and it looks so modern en different compared to the status quo'. 

I don't mind Tesla, I think they really stirred things up and that's not necessarily a bad thing. However, I still think their value proposition is inferior to cars in the same price class. You cannot expect such a young brand to be at the same quality level of those brands that have been around for decades. This problem will become more and more evident as other brands start to take a chunk of the EV pie. I've had my fair share of experiences with Tesla vehicles that were pretty stunning. As solid as their battery technology is, the chassis and squeaking brake systems need work. This was a problem on 5 different test cars that I have driven. The first one, retailing at €145.000 in Europe, had a leaking sun roof (fresh from the assembly line, just 500 miles on the clock). With another model S I could rip off the glued-on carbon fiber spoiler lip (couple 1000€ option). A model X with a €191.000 price tag had plastic buttons for the electric seats in the rear that you could easily take off. One full day one of the falcon doors wouldn't open. I've had multiple charge port problems and the battery range never lived up to my expectation. I could go on. With that being said, I can't help but laugh whenever I read that a Tesla Model S is competition for the Audi A8, Mercedes-Benz S-Class and BMW 7 Series. At this moment the Model S can barely keep up with the A6, E-Class and 5 Series - at almost every level. 

Although I actually really liked the smooth ride of the Tesla and cruising in EVs in general, I won't be buying one in the foreseeable future. I simply don't get what I want for the price I have to pay. I did order a brand new diesel vehicle recently, which will get me as far as 1100 kilometers on a single tank of fuel - it doesn't get more convenient for me than that. With the Euro6 categorization and energy label A+ I don't feel guilty towards the environment either, knowing that my total CO2 footprint for the time I own this diesel (including production) is much better than a comparable EV at this time.


----------



## womfalcs3

Granted it's BP projections, but I fail to see the onset of the electric car revolution any time soon:










We'd still have 40% more gasoline-powered cars by 2040 than we would in 2020. It will take several more decades... certainly past my life time.


----------



## Arnorian

These long-term predictions are worthless. Somebody could tomorrow find a way to make car batteries more efficient/cheaper, and everything would change.


----------



## womfalcs3

Arnorian said:


> These long-term predictions are worthless. Somebody could tomorrow find a way to make car batteries more efficient/cheaper, and everything would change.


These long-term projections, as cited a few pages back, have consistently overestimated the adoption of EVs. You're right, and that statement can apply to any innovation. I am sure people did not project the high adoption of internet nowadays back in the 1970s; however, long-term ideas of the future are a good measure for us to make decisions now.


----------



## lawdefender

Reports: China EV sales move into the fast lane

https://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/3032212/reports-china-ev-sales-head-into-the-fast-lane

According to the government-backed China Association of Automobile Manufacturers (CAAM), electric vehicle (EV) sales in China hit 225,310 during the first four months of this year, up 149 per cent compared to the same period a year earlier and accounting for around half of all EV sales worldwide.

It puts the country on track to hit total sales of one million EVs this year, halfway towards the government's target of two million by 2020.


----------



## TÖKKEN1

> *Turkey to allocate $3.7B for first indigenous car*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Turkey will allocate 3.2 billion euros ($3.7 billion) for its first domestically produced car,* Science, Industry and Technology Minister Faruk Özlü said Friday.
> 
> "The basic parameters of the project were shaped. *We will invest 3.2 billion euros. There will be a facility that has the capacity to produce 200,000 cars. There were five models of cars. As we thought since the beginning, the car will be electric,"* Özlü said in a live interview with private news channel TGRT Haber.
> 
> *The minister said the project would contribute about 50 billion euros ($58.8 billion) to the gross national product in the long term.*
> 
> *"This project will directly provide 4,000 jobs and indirectly 20,000 jobs,"* he added.
> 
> The minister said they would catch the fancy of the middle and upper classes: "We are mostly thinking of a car in segments B and C. It will be cheaper than peers. It should be at least 5 percent cheaper than its peers and more qualified than its peers."
> 
> The partnership agreement to create Turkey's first indigenous car brand was signed on May 31.
> 
> The manufacturing company was named Turkey's Automobile Initiative Group.
> 
> Five domestic firms - Anadolu Group, BMC, Kök Group, Turkcell and Zorlu Holding with 19 percent of shares each - and the Union of Chambers and Commodity Exchanges of Turkey (TOBB) with 5 percent of shares will jointly lead the firm.
> 
> Mehmet Gürcan Karakaş, one of the top global executives in technology giant Bosch and a successful Turkish manager in the global automotive market, was appointed as the CEO.
> 
> The initiative came after repeated calls by President Erdoğan for a joint car project by TOBB and the Science, Industry and Technology Ministry.
> 
> Last November, *President Erdoğan announced that the prototype of the first domestically produced car - expected to be produced in Ankara - would be ready in 2019 and enter the market in 2021.*
> 
> "The place is not certain yet. *Our aim is to unveil the prototype of the domestic car in 2019 and want to present it for sale in 2021," *Özlü said.
> 
> The president praised efforts to ensure that the mass production of the first indigenous automobile would be either electric or hybrid.
> 
> Turkey attempted to produce its first domestically produced car in 1961, the Devrim (Revolution), which was unsuccessful after production and was halted following the first prototypes.


https://www.dailysabah.com/automotive/2018/06/09/turkey-to-allocate-37b-for-first-indigenous-car


----------



## goschio

^
Turkey didn't produce cars before?


----------



## goschio

^
Turkey didn't produce cars before? But its good they start with electric cars straight away. That's the future.


----------



## TÖKKEN1

Tesla & Gersan Elektrik already building a network of charging stations in Turkey.

Also Zorlu Holding & Chinese GSR Capital building a 25.000 Megawatt battery factory in Turkey ( Investment 4.5 billion US Dollars )

The domestic turkish electric car will enter market in 2021 with production capacity of annual 200,000 cars. The first models will appear at Istanbul Auto Show 2019.


----------



## snow is red

*BYD Tang DM starts at a price of RMB 250,000 after subsidies*

June 26 , 2018










The all-new BYD Tang DM recently started presales with presale price ranging between RMB 250,000 and RMB 300,000 after eliminating subsidies.

The new model adopts BYD's iconic Dragon Face design concept, featuring a big-mouth intake grille. Besides, the model offers exaggeratedly-designed air inlets on both sides of its front end. It boasts aggressively-typed LED headlights, looking very futuristic.










The Tang DM measures 4,870mm in length, 1,950mm in width and 1,725mm in width and sets on a wheelbase of 2,820mm. It is standardized with seven seats. The model offers a popular design of floated roof, looking very impressive. With a futuristic pulling-through LED light strip, the model delivers a high recognition.










Adopting a wrap-around interior design style, the model features an extremely simple design idea on its center console, paired with a 12.3-inch LCD instrument and a 14.6-inch rotatable LCD screen of center console. Moreover, the model offers a three-spoke multi-functional steering wheel.










Thanks to a 2.0 turbocharged engine and two electric motors, the model boasts an electric full-wheel-drive system. Specifically, the engine can generate a 151kW maximum output and a 320Nm peak torque. The front electric motor has a maximum output of 110kW and a peak torque of 250Nm. And the rear electric motor boasts a maximum power output of 180kW and a peak torque of 380Nm. Mated with a six-speed automated transmission, the new model can sprint from 0-100km/h in 4.5 seconds. 









http://autonews.gasgoo.com/new_energy/70014812.html
https://carnewschina.com/2018/04/17/another-look-at-the-amazing-touch-screen-of-the-new-byd-tang/


----------



## womfalcs3

^ is close to 40,000 dollars supposed to be good? I think it's still out-of-reach for mass market appeal.

And China has reversed its previous position to install lots of PV. That is going to hinder EV adoption. If you're going to charge your EV from coal-fired electricity sources, you will likely never reach lower all-inclusive CO2 emissions than a combustion engine vehicle.


----------



## lawdefender

Guangzhou Automobile New Energy officially announced the pre-sale price of its subsidiary GE3 530. *The new car's pre-sale price is starting from 140,000 yuan(USD 21200). The battery capacity has been upgraded to 54.75 kWh, and its comprehensive cruising range has been increased from 310km to 410km, and the 60km/equivalency range has reached a maximum of 530km.*

http://news.imobile.com.cn/articles/2018/0611/187478.shtml


----------



## mrsmartman

Controllers will replace steering wheels in autonomous vehicles, similar to fly-by-wire technology in commercial airliners.


----------



## lawdefender

http://auto.sina.com.cn/newcar/x/2018-04-23/detail-ifzqvvrz8638943.shtml

The brand new pure electric vehicle Roewe Marvel X is officially released by Shanghai Motor Corporation. The model will be divided into two versions of dual-motor two-wheel drive and three-motor four-wheel drive, with a maximum range of 500 kilometers.

The three-motor version uses the same battery system configuration. Therefore, after adding an additional front-axle motor, the speed-up performance will be more pronounced. The acceleration of 0-100km/h will reach 4 seconds, but the trim quality will be 111 kg more than that of the dual-motor version. As a result, the power consumption is increased to 16kWh/100km, and its cruising range will also be reduced.

Its market positioning and pricing are naturally above the ERX5. The pre-subsidy price of the current ERX5 EV400 models is between 270,000-296,800 million yuan, while the pre-subsidy price of Marvel X dual-motor and three-motor models is expected to be between 300,000 to 400,000 yuan. . It is reported that Roewe MARVEL X will start pre-sale at the end of June this year.


----------



## womfalcs3

*Where 3 Million Electric Vehicle Batteries Will Go When They Retire*

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...ic-vehicle-batteries-will-go-when-they-retire



> Finding ways to reuse the technology is becoming more urgent as the global stockpile of EV batteries is forecast to exceed the equivalent of about 3.4 million packs by 2025, compared with about 55,000 this year, according to calculations based on Bloomberg NEF data.3





> Yet as many companies dive in [to reuse used battery packs for power grid purposes], the biggest U.S. electric-car maker—Tesla Inc.—stays on the sidelines. The Palo Alto, California-based company said its batteries probably won’t be suitable for a new task after 10 to 15 years of use, and it’s focusing on recovering the raw materials.





> By 2025, about three-quarters of spent EV batteries will be reused and then recycled to harvest raw materials, Melin said. That means automakers and battery producers such as China’s Contemporary Amperex Technology Ltd. can profit from the same pack several times.


----------



## lawdefender

Geely Dorsett GSE


It will be officially launched on June 9. The new car will be equipped with the same powertrain as Emgrand New Energy. The capacity of the ternary lithium battery is 52kWh, the comprehensive road condition is 353km, and the maximum cruising speed of 60km/h can reach 460km. Charge to 80%, slow charge is full for 9 hours. The new car is expected to sell for 110,000 yuan after subsidies.


----------



## MerynnTrant

the problem with electric cars is that theyre too quiet. its easy to fall asleep in them on while on the wheel.


----------



## MerynnTrant

also its still not cheap. even Elon Musk cant make it competitive with a gas car or a diesel. we should invest more in diesel passenger cars instead


----------



## Marsupalami

^^
Ever heard of Volkwagen emissions scandal. Diesel = bad bad bad. As a brand, it is socially unconscionable


----------



## Architecture lover

I've had a project about that Volkswagen scandal at my university, weird how they still have costumers.


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

Architecture lover said:


> I've had a project about that Volkswagen scandal at my university, weird how they still have costumers.


Yeah, one would think that after being hit by such a high-impact scandal, at least they'd get rid of the people employed only to design garments for dress-up-parties. It seems like a strange department not to cut costs in.


----------



## KOZIMIERZ

Architecture lover said:


> I've had a project about that Volkswagen scandal at my university, weird how they still have costumers.


That is because most people really do not care about CO2 emissions etc. They want a car that is reliable, cheap to buy and run and have good performance. And VW delivered what customers wanted not what governments and NGOs pushed forward.


----------



## Architecture lover

Lets put it this way, you buy a car from VW, you sign the buying contract where all the details, elements, performances are clearly specified. The problem was whiting the motor of the vehicle, they manipulated the exhaust for the first moments of car drive, to say our motor is overall great - leaves little emissions (as long as the test drive lasted) and after that the exhaust goes turbo.

Isn't that shaking a little bit of your confidence in the company even as an awfully average Joe, who only likes a cheap car, like you've said yourself, isn't such problem sparkling concerns about the performances itself? If they lied about the exhaust, they can surely lie about other aspects too.

A major company should never be allow to lie the public, especially not the potential costumers.


----------



## KOZIMIERZ

You can look at it another way - VW cheated the rules to deliver a better overall car for Joe (but not as green). And as he cares not about greenness he is in fact happy about this situation and keeps buying VW. That was my point.


----------



## Architecture lover

Once again you've missed the point - a better car is only the one where everything stated in the contract is reliable and transparent therefore corespondents with the actual performances of the vehicle in reality. 

A car that brakes even one of the stated futures in the contract, is not a god car. Also you're wrong when you say that most people don't care about pollution. I am not sure about which part of Europe are you (Poland?), but you should travel a little more, then you'll learn why most people in the Netherlands ride bicycles, same as those in Denmark's Copenhagen. Noway has oil, lots of oil and gas, yet they end up as an extremely Tesla popular nation, it's gotta be because they most certainly have an attitude towards pollution.

Even here in the South of Europe (no matter how poor we are) people do care about pollution, especially during wintertime when it gets very bad. Get out of the box that says - my opinion and ignorance towards pollution is everybody else's opinion aswell.


----------



## KOZIMIERZ

Architecture lover said:


> Once again you've missed the point - a better car is only the one where everything stated in the contract is reliable and transparent therefore corespondents with the actual performances of the vehicle in reality.


I did not miss the point. I just disagree with your opinion. What is in the contract has almost no connection to how good the car is. What is important is real life performance characteristics not the leaflet - and VW delivered a decent car that passed the required tests as they were written. And clients were happy with the car as it was. 
Plus most clients have no idea about what those certifications truly mean and almost all of them have absolutely no understanding in this topic - if you want to dispute this claim please let me know how many of them read the relevant standards and how many of them understood them. And how many of them read the relevant literature to understand the impact on the environment not complying with the given standard will cause. It is all just a regs compliance issue.



Architecture lover said:


> A car that brakes even one of the stated futures in the contract, is not a god car. Also you're wrong when you say that most people don't care about pollution. I am not sure about which part of Europe are you (Poland?), but you should travel a little more, then you'll learn why most people in the Netherlands ride bicycles, same as those in Denmark's Copenhagen. Noway has oil, lots of oil and gas, yet they end up as an extremely Tesla popular nation, it's gotta be because they most certainly have an attitude towards pollution.


Only if the client cares about this feature...

I have no idea about the situation in Netherlands apart from 30% tax on vehicle registration (unless zero emission), but in Norway there are huge monetary incentives to buy electric cars. Plus electricity is quite cheap there mainly due to a large share of hydroelectric in power generation.


> While motorists are typically subject to punitive levels of taxation, those who buy a purely electric vehicle are rewarded with a string of incentives worth thousands of pounds. Buyers escape heavy import or purchase taxes and are also exempt from 25% VAT. They also avoid road tax, road tolls, pay half price on ferries, get free municipal parking in cities and can usually use bus lanes.


Source: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/jul/02/norway-electric-cars-subsidies-fossil-fuel

So again buying electric vehicles make no economic sense and is mainly happening because of substantial government subsides on every stage of product life from design to recycling.

P.S. I usually cycle or walk so I do not need to check out he Scandinavian countries to check why they do it. And I love the idea of electric vehicles not only because of moving pollution outside of the city centres and low noise pollution but because of mechanical simplicity and reliability and great performance on low RPMs as well.


----------



## Arnorian

Electric vehicles make no economic sense while polluting if free.


----------



## KOZIMIERZ

Most western countries have high tax (sometimes even a few) on fuel so polluting in fact is not free there...


----------



## Balkanada

Architecture lover said:


> I've had a project about that Volkswagen scandal at my university, weird how they still have costumers.


I bought a new Jetta a year after that scandal and I have no regrets. Why should I? :dunno: I even got some good deals thanks to the scandal


----------



## Arnorian

KOZIMIERZ said:


> Most western countries have high tax (sometimes even a few) on fuel so polluting in fact is not free there...


I doubt those taxes cover even direct health effects, when money for road building and maintenance is subtracted. Let alone climate change.


----------



## Architecture lover

*Elon Musk signs agreement for Tesla factory in China with 500k vehicle capacity*

https://www.teslarati.com/elon-musk-shanghai-tesla-gigafactory-china-500k-production/


----------



## lawdefender

China Electric Car Sales Up 77% In June — #CleanTechnica Report

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/07/29/china-electric-car-sales-up-77-in-june-cleantechnica-report/
The Chinese plug-in electric vehicle (PEV) market lifted off the accelerator, with some 78,000 units registered in June, up only 77%. This slowdown from the three-digit growth rates of previous months is explained by the fact that, in June, “new energy” subsidies were slashed to vehicles with ranges lower to 150 km. That means most small “city EVs” stopped being sold, draining a significant percentage of sales.

Consequently, the PEV share dropped from a record 5% in May to 3.1% in June, pulling the 2018 share to 3%, well above the 2.1% of 2017. With sales expected to pick up as the year advances, the 2018 PEV share should end north of the 3% or 4% threshold. (5%?) December could potentially reach 7%.

Last month, the Chinese OEMs represented over 50% of all PEVs registered globally, an impressive number that is sure to increase during 2018.


----------



## lawdefender

Here are June’s top 5 best selling models:



#1 – BAIC EX-Series: BAIC’s compact electric crossover landed two years ago, but somehow, it has been overshadowed by the remaining lineup, a strange event considering that it sits in one of the hottest segments around. Nevertheless, with the EC-Series offline (waiting for the new, longer ranger version), the EX-Series is blossoming, especially thanks to a facelift and revised specs (415 km/260 mi NEDC range). Pricing is competitive ($28,500 before subsidies) as well. Beijing Auto’s “ugly duckling” is finally spreading its wings, having registered a record 5,708 units and becoming June’s best seller, a first for the crossover. With BAIC’s “little genius” (EC-Series) injured, it’s time for other team members to shine, like the EX-Series.


----------



## lawdefender

#2 – Roewe Ei5 EV: In only its fourth month on the market, the Roewe compact wagon is already on the podium, thanks to a record 4,661 deliveries. It seems the Shanghai automaker struck gold with this original offering. The wagon body is unusual in China. For the time being at least, it’s a unique design, with no ICE counterpart. In true Roewe fashion, it is one of the most solid designs — inside and out — coming from a Chinese OEM. If only the specs (35 kWh battery, 301 km/188 mi range NEDC, 116 hp motor) were a tad better … especially considering the price ($33,200 before subsidies).


----------



## lawdefender

#3 – BYD Qin PHEV: With the second-generation Qin just a couple months from landing, the first generation had another surprisingly good performance in June, with 4,606 registrations (a new record). This is the BYD model’s 10th consecutive 3,000–4,000 unit month result. (Talk about consistency!) Sales are still going strong for BYD’s sports sedan, and should continue at the 4,000-something level at least until the new one arrives. As for the new generation, sales above 5,000/month should be the norm.


----------



## lawdefender

#4 – Chery eQ: Chery was one of the Chinese brands to bet early in plug-ins, having won the models title three times in a row (2011, ’12, ’13), with its tiny QQ3 EV, now the automaker is trying to regain relevance with the eQ, the spiritual (and material) successor to the QQ3, having registered 4,434 units in June (year best), allowing it to collect a Top 5 position last month. A vehicle marketed to city dwellers, for USD 24,000 before incentives, you get a funky city EV, with the 22kWh battery providing just enough range (200 kms / 125 miles NEDC), to cover the needs of the urban jungle.


----------



## lawdefender

#5 – BYD e5: BYD’s “Plain Jane” sedan is a favorite among taxi-drivers. The no-frills sedan registered 4,047 units in June, up 26% year over year (YoY). This second youth is due to a facelift this year and, most importantly, a larger battery, allowing it to improve specs (61 kWh, 400 km of range NEDC, 218 hp). With a competitive price (CNY 220,650 / $34,600), the model is a bit of an unsung hero in the BYD stable, as the 81,000 units sold so far mean that it is the brand’s third bestselling PEV, behind the Qin and Tang models.


----------



## lawdefender

BYD Yuan EV — After a long time in development (it was presented two years ago), the Yuan EV has finally landed, and it did so with a bang, scoring 2,018 deliveries. That’s the best landing since the BAIC EC-Series arrived, back in 2016. So, will it reach the EC-Series sales levels? Regarding specs, in true BYD fashion, the specs are unrivaled in the compact crossover category: 42kWh battery, 305 km NEDC range, and 174 hp motor, all for some $25,000, which is quite a bargain, isn’t it? So, there will be plenty of demand for BYD’s new baby EV. The question is production capacity. With a new Tang midsize SUV just starting to roll off the lines and a new Qin sports sedan coming soon, will BYD have enough production space to meet the Yuan demand? 4,000 units/month should be possible, but above that, it has more to do with BYD production constraints and/or priorities than demand.


----------



## lawdefender

Geely Borui GE PHEV — Chinese full-size plug-in sedans never really caught on, as SAIC can attest with its e950 model, which sees only a few hundred sales a month — behind foreign models like the Tesla Model S or the BMW 530e. But the Geely Borui GE is not just another full-size barge coming from China, because the Geely Group has global ambitions, aiming to be a sort of Chinese Volkswagen Group. It has Volvo as the technological source for all of its brands. The top of the range Borui GE shares its platform with the Volvo S90, while the three-cylinder engine also comes from the Swedish brand and the PHEV setup will be seen across Geely Group, including … Volvo models. You can see the trend here, can’t you? “Swedish Technology, Chinese design and build” — this could be the Borui GE’s motto. Local buyers have caught on to this association, as the 942 registrations in its debut month seem to indicate. This is the best landing for such a Chinese model. Will it beat the foreign heavyweights? Expect the success of this model to be closely followed by Geely head honchos as they prepare to replicate this recipe in lower segments, like with the Lynk & Co brand.


----------



## fountainkopf

I found this in the internet. 2-seater electric motorcycle model.
Is this the way of the future on electrics ?


----------



## fountainkopf

Seems to be like a rat racer or hot rod on 3-wheels.


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

fountainkopf said:


> I found this in the internet. 2-seater electric motorcycle model.
> Is this the way of the future on electrics ?


Very little carrying capacity, driver positioned too low to give a good overview of the traffic situation, guaranteed to be the losing part in a collision with anything larger than a bicycle, no terrain maneuverability whatsoever, and it's a proper hassle to get into or out of. There's no way in heck it can compete with conventional cars, but it may be a novelty alternative to scooters in places with crappy weather, provided you can find a place to park it.


----------



## fountainkopf

Kyll.Ing. said:


> Very little carrying capacity, driver positioned too low to give a good overview of the traffic situation, guaranteed to be the losing part in a collision with anything larger than a bicycle, no terrain maneuverability whatsoever, and it's a proper hassle to get into or out of. There's no way in heck it can compete with conventional cars, but it may be a novelty alternative to scooters in places with crappy weather, provided you can find a place to park it.



It has trunk for groceries at the back. This is not a production model, but a proto.


----------



## Thirteen13

No it a garbage thing. Give it up. You are very strange.


----------



## fountainkopf

Thirteen13 said:


> No it a garbage thing. Give it up. You are very strange.


Thank you for the compliment.

This runs 1000 km with litium batteries, but 100-200 with just 8 lead batteries as well.

Extremely durable and totally insulated like no other vehicle. Certainly more durable than any motorcycle.


----------



## fountainkopf

Did we just loose the wind turbine discussion ?


----------



## Architecture lover

Thirteen13 said:


> No it a garbage thing. Give it up. You are very strange.


Judging by your grammar plus your attitude, you really are thirteen.
Too young for computers kiddo, go on the outside to play with your peers.


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

fountainkopf said:


> Did we just loose the wind turbine discussion ?



Decidedly so. Or perhaps it's just made invisible to you and me. Either way, it would probably be a smart thing not to start a new one.


----------



## lawdefender

Oslo: Nobina orders electric bendy buses from BYD

https://www.electrive.com/2018/07/08/oslo-nobina-orders-electric-bendy-buses-from-byd/

BYD will deliver the largest fleet of electric articulated buses in Europe to Oslo. Two orders have been placed by Nobina for a total of 42 electric buses measuring a full 18 metres. The orders follows multiple electric bus deliveries to Norway.

The 42 electric buses by BYD come equipped with pantograph charging and are scheduled for delivery in the second quarter of 2019.

Once they arrive, Nobina will run a fleet of 44 electric articulated buses in total that may be the largest of its kind in Europe. The new ebuses will service routes in the Oslo area and in particular in the east of Norway’s capital.


----------



## lawdefender

The world's first batch of 500 BYD T10ZT pure electric dump trucks was signed to operate in Pingshan, Shenzhen. 

http://www.sohu.com/a/240756565_486287
http://www.evpartner.com/news/105/detail-37686.html

BYD T10ZT pure electric intelligent dump truck vehicle size 9610mm × 2550mm × 3210mm, full-load cruising range of more than 280 kilometers, the maximum grade of climbing up to 50%. According to the requirements of Shenzhen technical regulations, the vehicle is equipped with a new U-shaped cargo box, which provides two closed system options: flat push-type folding top cover and rocker-type integral forward-moving top cover. T10ZT is equipped with BYD's many world-leading or industry-first core technologies. The first is to use the world's first electric integrated bridge assembly technology, equipped with 180KW dual motor + 4AMT speed + 16 tons of axles to achieve different power output, improve drive efficiency and economic benefits. The second is to use the industry's first six-in-one integrated controller, which integrates drive motor control, high-voltage power distribution, steering motor control, brake air compressor control, and bidirectional DC inverter functions. The third is to use a high-safety standard battery pack. The vehicle has a power consumption of 435kWh and is equipped with the industry's first power battery thermal management system to automatically control the battery cell temperature to the optimal range to ensure the vehicle's full life cycle operation quality.


----------



## Architecture lover

Congrats! This is great news!


----------



## Anticalaca

China is the real push in this electric car advent.


----------



## VelesHomais

Yes, they've been making impressive progress in the recent years.


----------



## TopWatch

*Colombia
Electric Car Sales - September 2018*

Left - 2017 vs 2018
Right - Monthly Change (Sep 17 vs Sep 18)









Saludos!!​


----------



## Clery

Peugeot e-Legend.


----------



## Arnorian




----------



## goschio

^
Nice, it seems the finally got their production problems smoothed out.


----------



## Arnorian




----------



## fountainkopf

goschio said:


> ^
> Nice, it seems the finally got their production problems smoothed out.


Possibly Musk did not sleep at the factory for nothing.


----------



## Zack Fair

Arnorian said:


>



That GIF is from one of Rich Rebuilds' live streamings. The guy is rebuilding a Tesla from scratch using parts from salvaged/flooded cars, you guys really need to check his channel :cheers:


----------



## snow is red

*China new energy PV sales in September grow nearly 70% YoY to 98,667 units*

October 15 , 2018

China saw its wholesale volume of new energy passenger vehicles reached a new high of 98,667 units with a year-on-year surge of around 70%, according to the data from the China Passenger Car Association (CPCA). The cumulative sales for the first nine months nearly doubled to 606,023 units from a year ago.

Last month, the battery electric vehicle (BEV) sales were 72,836 units, soaring 60% year on year (YoY) and 25% month on month (MoM). By the end of September, a total of 435,876 BEVs have been delivered in China so far this year with a remarkable YoY increase of 76%.

In BEV segment, the A00-class' deliveries dropped 15% over the previous year to 28,566 units, accounting for 39% of the total BEV PV sales. The A-class' sales skyrocketed 252% from a year earlier with 30,214 units delivered last month. In addition, the sales of the A0-class were basically the same as that of the previous month, while shot up 297% over the year-ago period. Thanks to the rising performances of the NIO ES8, the sales of the C-class BEV surged 60% MoM.

BYD maintained the leadership among all NEV automakers with its September sales amounting to 26,111 units. BAIC BJEV moved up to the runner-up place by virtue of the blooming performances of its EC, EU and EX Series. SAIC Motor PV's NEV sales declined 19% over the previous month, ranking third on the list. Changan Automobile, one of the major traditional automakers in China, saw its NEV sales fall 10% from the year-ago period. 

The Chery eQ took the championship among all BEV models with its September sales leaping 100% over a year ago to 5,310 units, also climbing 15% from the previous month. The BYD Yuan A0-class SUV were the runner-up, achieving a MoM growth of 12%, closely followed by the BYD e5. The BYD Qin Pro had sales of 1,003 units last month after it hit the market on September 20. Besides, the sales of NIO ES8 surged 60% over a month ago to 2,079 units.

As to the sales of plug-in hybrid models (PHEV), the BYD Tang was the best seller with its sales skyrocketing 459% from a year ago to 6,019 units. The BYD Qin took the runner-up, seeing its sales climb 9% to 3,866 units. The Trumpchi GS4 PHEV's sales soared 68% YoY to 732 units in September, ranking 8th on the list. 

http://autonews.gasgoo.com/china_news/70015256.html


----------



## Anticalaca

I can't wait until half of the current cars in my city (and anywhere) would be electric. The prices of long-dur. batterys, wich are the main cost of the packet, are dropping year by year.


----------



## Architecture lover

I am also hoping for such scenario. When I was still studying I always walked to my University, around 40 minutes of walk (from my home) in each direction, and I detested the pollution of the cars, having to walk so much in the city. I almost never used the public transportation.


----------



## Architecture lover

Clery said:


> Peugeot e-Legend.


Can the French push this concept into actuality? I saw a lot of hype about the car. For me France is the most entrepreneurial state in Europe. And I really love the overall design, looks futurist, it relies on a retro car's design, it looks powerful.
If someone can push electric car production in our continent, it's France, and maybe UK too.
Germany and its car companies appear to be so closely tied to the Arabic world, we can see that in Germany first signing a no fossil fuel agreement with the rest of Europe (long term reduction with taxes and everything), and then stepping away, they've done this several times. It makes them look so immature.


----------



## sturmgewehr

without the need of air intake, EV should have a more aerodynamic design.


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## Architecture lover

The exact reason why I love the car is because it's not necessarily too aerodynamic.
It gets the inspiration from the original 70's 504 Coupe.













Here they are together. Fabulous! 










Source: https://www.autocar.co.uk/opinion/motor-shows-paris-motor-show/peugeot-e-legend-concept-acceptable-face-autonomous-driving


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## lawdefender

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2018/08...soaring-market-sees-next-million-in-may-2019/


----------



## TopWatch

I've heard something that with the increase of electric cars sales, there will be more demand of energy (obvious), but this also this will increase the generation of CO2 emissions of the power centrals that have to increase their production because this demand.

This things were said by a Russian expert or something like that.
Pd: Sorry for my bad English.
Saludos!!​


----------



## japanese001

..


----------



## Velaxa

Architecture lover said:


> Can the French push this concept into actuality? I saw a lot of hype about the car. For me France is the most entrepreneurial state in Europe. And I really love the overall design, looks futurist, it relies on a retro car's design, it looks powerful.
> If someone can push electric car production in our continent, it's France, and maybe UK too.
> Germany and its car companies appear to be so closely tied to the Arabic world, we can see that in Germany first signing a no fossil fuel agreement with the rest of Europe (long term reduction with taxes and everything), and then stepping away, they've done this several times. It makes them look so immature.


I am not an expert in cars history, but I always perceived germans in car design as being too "traditional"


----------



## Modestas Gailius

Velaxa said:


> I am not an expert in cars history, but I always perceived germans in car design as being too "traditional"


That would be BMW's, especially their interiors are not as nice as Audi or of course Merc , i'd put them almost in the same category as VW but that would be to much .


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## lawdefender

http://www.chinanews.com/auto/2018/11-28/8687827.shtml

The Guangzhou Municipal Transportation Commission said， by November 26, 2018， *10,336 pure electric buses were operated in Guangzhou（total 14,708 buses operated in Guangzhou ).*


----------



## AltinD

Kyll.Ing. said:


> That is technically true, but the net demand for energy will still decrease. The whole chain of power plant - grid - battery - electric engine still converts fuel into motion more efficiently than burning the fuel in a combustion engine. Power plants are way more fuel efficient than a car engine, and conversion losses aren't that big. That's not even counting the part of the electricity mix that is not generated by fossil fuels, such as hydropower, wind power or nuclear power. Besides, you still reduce tailpipe emissions drastically, at worst the pollution is moved from the streets to the power plant. And it's a lot easier to filter the emissions from one power plant than from a million tailpipes.


Yes .... but, how much time and funding is needed to build new clean power plants and upgrading the entire power distribution infrastructure?


During the communism in the '70s and '80s Albania we were using wood for heating and cooking (kerosene in the warmer seasons), and the concept of power outage was totally unknown .... then the communism fell in 1991 and people started using electricity for everything and the network simply collapsed by the extra load. There was more dark then light and transformers in flames were a common sight. This, coupled with no money to build new power plants, and the problem existed till recently. 

.... and to think, together with the collapse of communism collapsed also the absolute biggest consumer of electricity back then: the industrial and manufacturing.


----------



## lawdefender

Guangzhou Bus Group Baiyun Rental Company's first batch of pure electric SUV taxis,

Currently, there are 503 vehicles, which will be put into operation from October 2018.

The vehicle is a GAC GE3 model and belongs to the mid- high-end pure electric vehicle. The GE3's comprehensive range can reach 310 kilometers, and fast charging can restore 80% of electricity in just 30 minutes, enough for high-frequency rental travel.

http://www.sohu.com/a/259214922_1617...5200023WRl5Apr

From this year, the percentage of taxis upgraded for pure electric vehicles in Guangzhou is not less than 80%.

*By 2022, all the taxis will be pure electric vehicles in Guangzhou.*

http://www.xinhuanet.com/city/2018-0..._129882279.htm












*Guangzhou pure electric taxis with quick battery changing technology*

On November 29th, 2017， BAIC New Energy delivered 200 electric taxis to Guangzhou and put them into operation. This is the first batch of pure electric taxis in Guangzhou. It is a fourth city that the battery switching mode electric taxis are used after Beijing, Xiamen and Lanzhou.


The taxi driver only needs to drive the car into the power station. The corresponding locking structure will lock the vehicle. The system will automatically identify the vehicle type, use the robot arm to move the battery to separate it from the vehicle, and then recycle and transfer. Wait for a series of processes. At this time, the new battery will also be installed and clamped by the robot arm, and the vehicle will be restored to full power. The entire process takes only 2 minutes and 46 seconds, similar to the fuel-fueling time.

http://auto.sina.com.cn/j_kandian.d....60&subch=iauto


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## Yellow Fever

lawdefender said:


> From this year, the percentage of taxis upgraded for pure electric vehicles in Guangzhou is not less than 80%.
> 
> *By 2022, all the taxis will be pure electric vehicles in Guangzhou.*


Wish we can do the same here in Canada.


----------



## lawdefender

Taxis in China's tech hub Shenzhen almost entirely electric


http://www.ecns.cn/news/economy/2019-01-02/detail-ifzcitha9949757.shtml
0 2019-01-02 23:39:37XinhuaEditor : Wang FanECNS App Download
Traffic authorities in Shenzhen, south China's Guangdong Province, said Wednesday that the majority of the city's fossil-fueled taxis have been replaced with electric vehicles to improve air quality.

*Nearly 20,000 blue-colored pure electric taxis were operating on the city's streets by the end of 2018, accounting for 92 percent of the city's cabs*, according to Shenzhen's transportation commission.

The commission told Xinhua that the other 8 percent are either involved in litigations or have yet to find owners, which made the replacement unfeasible.

By making the taxi fleets electric, the city will cut carbon emission by 856,000 tonnes and reduce 4.38 million tonnes of other pollutants including hydrocarbons and particular matters annually, according to the commission.

In 2009, Shenzhen and 12 other cities were selected by the Chinese government to pilot the use of new-energy vehicles. The city's public buses had been made electric by the end of 2017.

Blue-colored pure electric taxis in Shenzhen


----------



## lawdefender

JMC revealed its T500EV pick-up truck. The electric drivetrain includes a 120 kW permanent magnet synchronous motor and comes with two battery options, a 320 km pack and a 335 km pack. It has standard Chinese fast charging capability.


----------



## Yellow Fever

^^ Good looking pick up truck, I wonder whats its towing capacity?


----------



## el palmesano

gret news!!

in Montevideo, Uruguay:


> *Government and Intendance subsidize 54 electric taxis in Montevideo*
> The objective is to start 2020 with 10% of the fleet of taxis in electric mode.


https://www.carasycaretas.com.uy/gobierno-e-intendencia-subsidian-54-taxis-electricos-en-montevideo/

New electric taxis presented in Montevideo









> *New units arrived for electric taxis in Montevideo*
> They will be added to the 24 cars that already circulate in the city, totaling 54 at the end of this year.


https://www.carasycaretas.com.uy/llegaron-nuevas-unidades-para-taxis-electricos-en-montevideo/


----------



## snow is red

*BYD ADL delivers nine electric buses for Guildford*

Jan 8, 2019

The BYD ADL partnership has completed delivery of nine 10.8 m fully electric buses together with charging infrastructure to Stagecoach South for use on park and ride services in Guildford, UK.

In Guildford, the nine electric buses will connect three car parks and a leisure centre with the town centre, operating six days a week. Guildford is considered an “important and historic large town south of London”, and is home to a major university. The population is also made up of a large number of London commuters. The small BYD ADL fleet is the first of fully electric buses to enter service in Guildford.

Arthur Whiteside, ADL’s Managing Director for UK Sales, said: “We are delighted to support Stagecoach South and Surrey County Council in their introduction of clean, zero-emission buses.” BYD’s UK Country Manager, Frank Thorpe, added: “The entry into service of these vehicles means that our joint enterprise has now supplied advanced electric buses to the majority of the major bus operating groups in the UK.”

The Stagecoach Group currently operates around 8,000 buses and coaches in the UK, and this marks the first delivery by the BYD ADL partnership to the group.

https://www.electrive.com/2019/01/08/byd-adl-delivers-nine-electric-buses-for-guildford/


----------



## RyukyuRhymer

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46919489

*Elon Musk's Tesla to cut about 3,000 jobs as cars 'too expensive'*

Electric carmaker Tesla has said it will cut its workforce by 7% after the "most challenging" year in its history.
In an email to staff on the firm's website, founder Elon Musk said that growth had been strong.
But he added it was difficult to make Teslas with their new and developing technology as cheaply as conventional cars, and the firm's cars were still "too expensive for most people".
Tesla employs more than 45,000 people, indicating it will cut about 3,000.
Mr Musk said 2018 was Tesla's "most successful" yet, in which it delivered almost as many cars as it had in all the previous years of its existence combined.


----------



## lawdefender

* 2018 Pure electric passenger cars sale in China : 792,000, 64.6% increase from 2017*

https://www.d1ev.com/news/shuju/85937


----------



## lawdefender

Chinese autohome pure electric car range testing report

Our range test is divided into high-speed endurance and urban endurance. The standard of endurance test is low-speed working conditions with an average speed of 30±2km/h, including urban general roads ; the second is an average speed of 90±2km/h high speed conditions.

https://www.autohome.com.cn/drive/201812/927274-all.html?pvareaid=3311701#p2


Model/ Official claimed range (km)/ Battery Capacity (kWh) /Range Tested in low speed(km)/Range Tested in high speed (km)

Tesla Model X 100D (four-wheel drive) /552 /100/ 440/ 432
MARVEL X two-wheel drive version /403 52.5 403 285
Yidong EV460 /405 52.56 402 262
MARVEL X full drive version (four-wheel drive)/ 370 52.5 388 265
BYD e5 450 /400 60.46 374 322
Euler iQ Zhilian /360 46.57 350 270
BYD Qin EV 450/ 400 60.48 339 333
Dongfeng Fengshen E70 /351 49 322 300
BYD Song EV500 /400 61.9 315 281
BMW i3 /271 33 307 212
BYD Yuan EV360 /305 43.2 305 224
Nazha N01 /301 35.04 288 250
GAC GE3/ 310 46 286 215
Roewe Ei5/ 301 35 281 217
Dorsett Gse /353 52 277 258
Tiggo 3xe /351 49 273 257
Weilai ES8 (four-wheel drive) /355 70 256 262


----------



## Modestas Gailius

RyukyuRhymer said:


> https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46919489
> 
> *Elon Musk's Tesla to cut about 3,000 jobs as cars 'too expensive'*
> 
> Electric carmaker Tesla has said it will cut its workforce by 7% after the "most challenging" year in its history.
> In an email to staff on the firm's website, founder Elon Musk said that growth had been strong.
> But he added it was difficult to make Teslas with their new and developing technology as cheaply as conventional cars, and the firm's cars were still "too expensive for most people".
> Tesla employs more than 45,000 people, indicating it will cut about 3,000.
> Mr Musk said 2018 was Tesla's "most successful" yet, in which it delivered almost as many cars as it had in all the previous years of its existence combined.


Had to be done


----------



## lawdefender

BYD Launches New Yuan EV535 Electric SUV

https://insideevs.com/byd-launches-new-yuan-ev535-electric-suv/

the BYD Yuan EV535 measures 4,350mm long, 1,785mm wide and 2,535mm tall with a wheelbase that spans 2,535mm. Powering the vehicle is an electric motor that generates up to 163hp and a Ni-Co lithium manganate battery pack. Based on the previous naming convention, the “535” indicates that the new BEV’s range at constant speed will be 535km.


----------



## goschio

Progress is slow but steady. Wonder when the 5% barrier will be broken. Lots of new models expected in 2019 and 2020. 



> *Electric Car Market in Germany in 2018 (Full Year)*
> During the full calendar year 2018, only 36,062 new electric passenger vehicles were registered in Germany for the first time, or a market share of only 1,05% of the total German new car market compared to 25,056 and a market share of 0.7% during 2017.
> 
> The electric car market in Germany is clearly growing and a wide variety of new models are expected to give the market a serious boost in 2019 and especially 2020.
> 
> *Electric Car Market in German in December 2018*
> New electric passenger car vehicle registrations in Germany in December 2018 increased by 12.4% to 3,836 cars and a 1.62% market share compared to 3,412 cars and a market share of 1.3% in December 2017.
> 
> [...]


https://www.best-selling-cars.com/germany/2018-germany-best-selling-electric-car-brands-and-models/



>


https://www.google.com/search?q=ele...UIDigB&biw=1024&bih=506#imgrc=1ot87Fs8Q8SznM:


----------



## chennaidesi

True this is the future and Tesla is accelerating the move to sustainable transportation.


----------



## lawdefender

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country


----------



## Tatal

*The Tesla Model 3 Is Taking Over The World*

*The European Invasion Continues With Model 3 Deliveries In Norway, Finland, Germany, Spain, & More*



> The very first Tesla Model 3 owners in Norway received their cars on Friday as the electric invasion of Western Europe continued. Deliveries have been confirmed to customers in numerous countries and new owners have flooded the interwebs with photos of their new favorite thing.
> 
> Customers in the Netherlands and Belgium were the first to get their cars, with neighboring Germany following shortly thereafter. As it stands, customers have taken delivery in the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, France, Spain, Denmark, and Austria.




Full Article : Clean Technica


----------



## jalapenopepper89

So in Norway 6 out of 10 people drive an electric vehicle, that's amazing.


----------



## FLAWDA-FELLA

^^ Wow, that's nearly sixty percent and is quite awesome indeed! mg:


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

jalapenopepper89 said:


> So in Norway 6 out of 10 people drive an electric vehicle, that's amazing.


 Not quite, the numbers say almost 6 people out of 100 *own* an electric vehicle. Even assuming that two or three people use the same car, and that, say, only half the population drives, it's still not an electric driver rate of more than 30 % at best. 



But I think sales of electric vehicles among all newly-registered cars is somewhere around 40-60 % these days. So the total car pool is becoming increasingly more electric.


----------



## fountainkopf

It is very wise that oil producer himself doesn't use petroleum.


----------



## btrs

The first official pictures and information of the 2nd generation Peugeot 208 have been released today. And more importantly for this topic: there will be a full electric model, named the e-208. It will feature a 136 hp electric motor, powered by a 50 kW battery pack. Peugeot will guarantee that the batteries will still have 70% capacity after 8 years or 160000 km (whatever is reached first).

Range is estimated at 340 km WLTP.

https://www.peugeot.co.uk/showroom/new-208/e-208/

This will really be *the *game-changer EV in the B-segment, since the Renault Clio V will only have a mild hybrid or plug-in around 2020. And Renault has that nasty habit where you only rent the batteries for a monthly fee, you don't own them. The advantage with the Renault system is that when they are worn out they replace them at no cost (since that's included in the rental price). Whereas with the other manufacturers this means: battery dead = vehicle ready for scrap.

The new Opel/Vauxhall Corsa F which shares the same platform (after PSA took over Opel from GM back in 2017) will probably feature some kind of hybrid or electric version as well, although Opel will probably try to aim for the lower segment of the market while Peugeot will be positioned more towards the higher end of the market.

We will know more after the Geneva Car Show in 2 weeks time, when Peugeot and the press will release more info and more first impressions.


----------



## goschio

Number of sold electric vehicles increased to 5.6 million in 2018. Annual increase was 64%.

Most sold model was Nissan leaf (363.940 vehicles) followed by Tesla model S (243.200 vehicles). 









https://www.heise.de/newsticker/mel...ektroautos-rollen-durch-die-Welt-4306179.html


----------



## japanese001

..


----------



## womfalcs3

BP and the IEA are projecting 15% of all cars on the road globally by 2040 will be EVs. We have about 1 billion cars now, which they project will grow to 2 billion by 2040. Out of that 1 billion-car increase, 300 million will be EVs.

Moreover, the gasoline-fueled internal combustion engine is about to get a makeover. Mazda is going to implement a spark-ignition ICE that acts similarly to a compression-ignition engine of diesel.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/transport...-engine-gives-new-life-to-internal-combustion


----------



## JorgenHans

Turkey`s first domestic electrical SUV will enter mass market in 2022. Five other models will follow.



> *Indigenous automobile to add 50B euros to Turkish economy in 15 years*
> 
> *TOGG CEO* Murat Karakas
> 
> *Turkey's domestic project , once it goes to production and is released on the market, will yield 50 billion euros for gross domestic product in the next 15 years while significantly contributing to employment by creating 20,000 jobs*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The details and financial returns from the indigenous automobile project, launched in November 2017 through the efforts of the Turkish business world, are being revealed as the project makes progress. Gürcan Karakaş, the CEO of Turkey's Automobile Joint Venture Group (TOGG), said within the next 15 years the ecosystem to be mobilized by their project will contribute 50 billion euros ($56.5 billion) to the gross domestic product (GDP), 7 billion euros to the current account deficit and add about 20,000 people to direct or indirect employment.
> 
> In his speech at the "The Future of the Mobility Ecosystem" panel moderated by Martaş Otomotiv board member Cem Baver Özalp at the Uludağ Economic Summit, TOGG CEO Karakaş said there are changes in three dimensions triggered by megatrends in the mobility ecosystem, namely those in the technological dimension of the automobile, social life, and the trends adopted by the lawmakers and countries.
> 
> The TOGG CEO evaluated the approach of the company toward the concept of the domestic automobile. He noted that around 20 global examples of success and failure had been analyzed during the technical and feasibility studies of the project. Karakaş underscored that the market conditions are available for global competition and the indigenous automobile has a strong portfolio to compete in the global market.
> 
> *Speaking of the portfolio, he explained that an SUV will be included among the models given the demand in the market and four to five models will be on the market.* Karakaş further stressed that Turkey is not indifferent to the transformation and megatrends in the world, adding that there is a real opportunity resulting from not only the transformation of technology but also the market.
> 
> "The race has just begun," Karakaş continued. "We have not compared ourselves with the manufacturers of internal combustion engines of 150 years, but with those who believe that this work will be solved by the mobility ecosystem and that the future will be there because of the transformations and megatrends."
> 
> Indicating that there are over 500 start-ups engaged in this line of business in the world, three quarters of which are interested in the mobility ecosystem to be created around the car with these transformations, not the car itself, Karakaş said that there is not much difference between the classic car manufacturers and Turkey in this sense, underlining that compared to beginners, the distance is short enough to cover. Karakaş said that Turkey's Automobile Project is the result of a 15-year effort. "We think that we can build it very easily because Turkey, as well as the automotive sector, has a really good infrastructure," he noted, pointing out that they believe their plan has a very solid foundation.
> 
> TOGG CEO Karakaş said the joint venture has determined eight criteria to implement this plan, listing the first one as opportunity and market, followed by a global brand and portfolio to compete with the world, and the formation of a global and competitive supply industry and start-up ecosystem. "We think that we can do it because if we can compete at the moment, we can ensure its sustainability as well. We want Turkey to get intellectual property rights. *When we start our production, we will enter the market to the extent that will compete with manufacturers who have been in this business for a long time,*" he said.
> 
> Karakaş also highlighted that the company does not pursue separate quality for both the domestic market and the foreign market as some countries do.
> 
> "Since we are also a 15-year project, we have enough breath, sources and belief in this matter," he said.
> 
> Touching on the project's contribution to the Turkish economy, Karakaş said within the next 15 years the ecosystem to be mobilized by the project will contribute to the Turkish economy.
> 
> "When substituting vehicles, reducing the dependence on oil and using more efficient systems are calculated, it has a positive contribution of 7 billion euros to the current account deficit," he continued. "We will have nearly 4,000 employees in our company. If one person works in the automotive industry, four people will be employed in the sub-industry and partners. Therefore, we believe that we will create employment for 20,000 people."
> 
> *In November 2017, the Turkish public saw the launch of a groundbreaking initiative to manufacture Turkey's first domestic automobile. This goal has brought together the country's largest manufacturers and companies in a consortium that includes Kıraça, Anadolu Group, Turkcell, Zorlu and BMC.
> *
> The initiative came after repeated calls from President Erdoğan for a joint venture car project by the Turkish Union of Chambers and Commodity Exchanges (TOBB) and the Ministry of Science, Industry and Technology.
> 
> Global trends in automotive industry
> 
> TOGG CEO Karakaş also spoke of the global trends in the automotive industry with specific notes on the development of electric cars and autonomous cars.
> 
> "The availability of electric vehicles with the development of electric engines and battery technology makes it an alternative to internal combustion vehicles," he continued. "This process is further accelerated with the development of environmental awareness and the pressure of emission laws. That is why we believe that electric vehicles will soon replace internal combustion vehicles," he said.
> 
> Karakaş noted that autonomous driving, combined with the development of sensor technology and digitalization, puts the car in a very different position.
> 
> "In our cars, we can do what we can at home and at work because we will not focus on driving. We define this as the car's transformation into a living space," he added.
> 
> Karakaş pointed out that with the cities getting a bit smarter together with technology, automobile sensors will be able to interact with smart cities, stressing the cars are being transformed into a smart device or a walking computer that can communicate with the devices at home - refrigerators, buildings, sites, cities and traffic safety systems.
> 
> "When we combine all of them, everything that happens to the mobile phone with its usage areas will also be happening to the car. On mobile phones, while we used to be only able to call someone, we can do almost anything right now. The car is in this transformation with the same logic," he noted.
> 
> Karakaş said there are many countries, spearheaded by China, that perceive the technological transformation, especially the transformation in the automobile, as an opportunity, and therefore change the current postures, even the laws of the city to the extent of urbanism. Informing that China, which has been investing very high amounts for years especially in electric vehicles, intends to invest $130 billion in the next 10 years.
> 
> Adding that other automakers will also invest up to $300 billion in the next 10 years because if they do not take part in the transformation, their share of total profit pools will decrease, Katakaş said with regards to all profits generated in the automotive sector in 2017, the amount earned from new business opportunities originating from the mobility system accounts for 1 percent of the profit, which will go up to 40 percent in 2035, meaning that 40 percent of the 2035 profitability will come from these new areas.
> 
> "Conversely, the share of the classic carmakers from their current job in 2035 will be 60 percent. In new technologies, profitability rates are also higher, hence developing a very attractive market," he continued.


https://www.dailysabah.com/automoti...-add-50b-euros-to-turkish-economy-in-15-years


----------



## lawdefender

GAC(Guangzhou Auto Corperation) New Energy first released its new electric SUV model, the Aion LX. in Shanghai Auto Show 2019. This model is positioned as a medium-sized SUV, the first pure-electric SUV model under the Aion system, and has a cruising range of more than 600km in the NEDC standard.

*Aion LX features Level 3 auto-driving technology*.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GAC SUV Aion LX: NEDC cruising range 600 km

Tesla SUV Model X 100D: NEDC cruising range 542 km

---------------------------------------------------------------
GAC SUV Aion LX : zero-to-60-mph time: 3.9 seconds

Tesla SUV Model X 100D: zero-to-60-mph time: 3.5 seconds

https://www.tesla.cn/blog/new-tesla-model-s-now-quickest-production-car-world
http://auto.gasgoo.com/News/2019/04/150837253725I70099306C501.shtml
http://www.sohu.com/a/308225783_383324
http://kuaibao.qq.com/s/20190417A004FO00?refer=spider


----------



## lawdefender

2019 Shanghai Auto Show: Leap Motor pure electric SUV - C-more officially released

NEDC cruising range: 500km

zero-to-60-mph time: 5 seconds

http://auto.sina.com.cn/newcar/x/2019-04-16/detail-ihvhiewr6276555.shtml


----------



## womfalcs3

I don't understand climate change activists supporting EV adoption in China. That country primarily uses coal for electricity today, and is projected to generate 50% of electricity using coal by 2040.

In fact, rapid EV deployment will just bring in more coal-fired plants now (and no developer is going to lose money over the plant's 40-year life time, so they will run it for years to come). I read an article recently that China is continuing construction on coal-fired plants that it had previously planned and promised to discontinue: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...show-runaway-expansion-of-coal-power-in-china


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## lawdefender

Shanghai motor show 2019: best of the Chinese cars

https://www.msn.com/en-in/autos/new...est-of-the-chinese-cars/ar-BBW10o8?li=AAgg6KI

Xpeng P7

Fledgling EV brand Xpeng is chasing the Tesla Model 3 with its new P7 compact saloon. Its long wheelbase, short front overhang, frameless doors and pop-out door handles all seek to directly rival the American firm's most affordable model. Xpeng claims the car will achieve 311 miles of range on China's NEDC-based tests.












Nio previews upcoming saloon

Nürburgring record-breaking EP9 hypercar aside, electric car maker Nio has so far only released SUVs. That's set to change in 2021 with the ET saloon, which was previewed by an 80%-representative concept in Shanghai. Little is known about the underlying powertrain, but Nio has hinted at a 220kW dual-motor set-up and more than 300 miles of range.


----------



## Dmerdude

^^


Xpeng P7 looks much sexier than Tesla model 3...

:drool:


----------



## Dmerdude

JorgenHans said:


> Turkey`s first domestic electrical SUV will enter mass market in 2022. Five other models will follow.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.dailysabah.com/automoti...-add-50b-euros-to-turkish-economy-in-15-years



They've been saying that for years. We'll see if and when that happens.


Don't quote Sabah by the way, it's very low quality...


----------



## Kyll.Ing.

womfalcs3 said:


> I don't understand climate change activists supporting EV adoption in China. That country primarily uses coal for electricity today, and is projected to generate 50% of electricity using coal by 2040.
> 
> In fact, rapid EV deployment will just bring in more coal-fired plants now (and no developer is going to lose money over the plant's 40-year life time, so they will run it for years to come). I read an article recently that China is continuing construction on coal-fired plants that it had previously planned and promised to discontinue: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...show-runaway-expansion-of-coal-power-in-china


It's easier to put a filter on a power plant's smoke stack than on a million tailpipes. And besides, it's not like conventional vehicles are any better than coal-fired electric ones, emission-wise.


----------



## lawdefender

GAC Aion S pure electric vehicle start sale on April 27

*30,000 pre-ordered before sale.*

Aion S has a length and width of 4768mm/1880mm/1530mm and a wheelbase of 2750mm.

Nidec e-axle (electric motor, inverter and single-speed transmission) – 87 kg of weight, the maximum power is 183 hp (135 kW), the peak torque is 300 N·m

*The drag coefficient is only 0.245

0-100 km/h acceleration : 7.9 s. 

The NEDC cruising range : 510 kilometers *

*Auto-driving : Level 2

and the battery can be charged to 80% in half an hour by fast charging. The Aion series models use the lithium battery NCM 811 with a battery energy density of 170 watt-hours/kg.

After the subsidy, the price range: 139,800 to 205,800 yuan.*

Aion S's low-spec version (Hyun 530) after subsidized starting from : RMB 140,000 yuan (USD 20,833)

high-spec model (Charming 630), after subsidized starting from : RMB 160,000 yuan （USD 23,809）


AION.S is the first product of GAC's second-generation pure electric platform GEP. The biggest feature of this platform is to change our traditional three-electric system into the form of "electric drive + battery", using " Three-in-one integrated electric drive system. The GEP pure electric platform integrates motor, electronic control and differential reduction, which can effectively reduce the size and weight of the three-electric system, create more space for the cockpit, and also improve the efficiency and service life of the entire system.










http://www.sohu.com/a/301329700_120865
http://www.sohu.com/a/309244284_114760

AION.S solar self-circulating eco-cockpit. The solar skylight can be used to charge the battery during the day, and ventilation, ventilation, lighting, and lighting of the ambient light during parking will no longer consume additional power. However, due to the energy conversion efficiency and material cost, solar panels are not able to charge the battery pack.










AION.S is equipped with Level 2 intelligent driving assistance and intelligent AI 2.0 in collaboration with Tencent. In addition to the basic car features, this smart AI also supports mobile virtual keys, super accounts and system-wide OTA. The mobile virtual key allows you to check the status of the vehicle and remotely control it at any time via the APP.











AION.S will be produced at GAC New Energy's intelligent eco-factory, and this is a flexible assembly of steel-aluminum body blending lines. Improve production efficiency and reduce body weight through steel-aluminum hybrid flexible assembly technology and aluminum joining technology.










low-spec version (Hyun 530) after subsidized starting from : RMB 140,000 yuan (USD 20,833)










high-spec model (Charming 630), after subsidized starting from : RMB 160,000 yuan （USD 23,809）


----------



## RyukyuRhymer

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/24/investing/tesla-earnings-loss/index.html

*Tesla lost $702 million last quarter, snapping its profit streak
*

Tesla's profit streak is over. Big time.

The electric car company said Wednesday that it lost $702 million last quarter. Its revenue was also down 37% compared to the prior quarter.
Wall Street was already bracing for what one analyst called an "apocalyptic" quarter — but the results were still far worse than expected.

There were a couple of reasons Tesla was so far in the red, according to Karl Brauer, executive publisher at Kelley Blue Book and Autotrader.
First, a $7,500 federal tax credit was cut in half for Tesla vehicles at the beginning of the year. Then, brands like Porsche, Audi, Mercedes and Hyundai are all entering the electric vehicle market, giving Tesla meaningful competition for the first time in the company's history, Brauer said.
"None of these issues, by themselves, would cause the severe drop in sales and revenue Tesla experienced in Q1, but the combination was powerful," Brauer said in an email Wednesday evening. "Even more troubling? None of these issues are going away. This is the new normal for Tesla."


----------



## Anticalaca

It looks like the chinese companies will be the real push in the electrical vehicles. Tesla simply can't catch up, and the years go by.


----------



## lawdefender

Guangzhou adds 1,500 new GAC GE3 530 pure electric SUV taxis 

Guangzhou Automobile GE3 530, the world's first long-life AI pure electric SUV, is also built on a pure electric platform. Motor, electric control, battery integrated into one unit, the SUV has a warranty period of 5 years or 700,000 km, which greatly enhances the driver's confidence in the operation of the pure electric GE3 530 taxi; NEDC's comprehensive working range can reach 410km.

*At present, there are 23,000 taxis in Guangzhou, and 3,190 pure electric taxis have been put into operation.

Until the March this year, the total number of charging facilities in Guangzhou has exceeded 20,000, and the number of DC fast-filled piles has exceeded 8,000. There is a charging facility within 1 km radius of the city center, which is very convenient for pure electric taxis to travel in the city.


*
http://www.sohu.com/a/311171870_125914?scm=0.0.0.0


----------



## Tatal

Anticalaca said:


> It looks like the chinese companies will be the real push in the electrical vehicles. Tesla simply can't catch up, and the years go by.


Tesla can't keep up with what? Chinese vehicles are pretty and many but they just have no chance against Tesla's technology (production, charging network, autopilot, etc. etc.)

You have many chinese EV models because the government financed EV's regardless of the range, speed etc. The Chinese government announced a month ago that it will cut these subsidies so don't think that you're gonna see so many of them in the future.

Nio was their best chance until know, but Nio is nowhere to be found. It's stock months later looks like it was just another bubble for people to pump and dump in order to get rich.


----------



## Arnorian

The thing to consider is that Tesla is a software company first. That's the most important fact for the future.


----------



## lawdefender

https://insideevs.com/news/347374/global-ev-sales-in-march-2019/

Models rank

The Tesla Model 3 was the best-selling model for the month, for the quarter and by the way, set a new monthly record of 33,187 (50,900 YTD). Those are absolutely outstanding results (more than two times better than the second best YTD), especially when we consider the start of deliveries in Europe and China, which extends the delivery path.

Only two Chinese models were able to also a achieve five-digit result: BAIC EU-Series (13,057 and 19,417 YTD) and BYD Yuan (10,021 and 24,446 YTD).


Manufacturers rank

Tesla (38,084 sales in March and 63,000 YTD) is catching up with BYD (29,249 and 71,499), but the huge gap from the beginning of the year will probably last one more month.

The only two other manufacturers in the five-digit range in March were BAIC (17,990) and BMW (24,706).


----------



## lawdefender

BYD unveiled the electric Song Pro, electric Song Pro MAX, E1, E2, S2, and E-SEED GT hybrid concept at the 2019 Shanghai Auto Show.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/05/05/6-byd-electric-vehicles-at-the-2019-shanghai-auto-show/

The E-SEED GT hybrid concept was designed by Wolfgang Egger, BYD Global Design Director, JuanMa Lopez, BYD Global Exterior Design Director, and Michele Jauch-Paganetti, BYD Global Interior Design Director. The concept looks incredible and pushes BYD design into the future. At the show, BYD unveiled the car on stage and an RT-connected news company filmed the event


----------



## Tatal

*Tesla (TSLA) is going to get up to $2 billion from Fiat-Chrysler to meet emission standards*

https://electrek.co/2019/05/07/tesla-tsla-2-billion-fiat-chrysler-emission-standards/



> It was first reported to be worth a few hundred million dollars, but FCA now says that it will pay Tesla up to $2 billion for the emission credits.
> 
> The European Commission is putting in place an average CO2 emissions requirement of 95g per kilometer in automakers’ fleets next year.
> 
> It means that, on average, the vehicles sold by an automaker throughout the year needs to be no more than 95g per kilometer or they expose themselves to significant fines.
> 
> Of course, adding zero-emission vehicles, like all-electric vehicles, to the mix, can help bring the average down significantly, but Fiat Chrysler is seen as a lagger in the industry when it comes to bringing all-electric vehicles to market.


----------



## Tatal

*VW opens preorders for its long range electric ID 3*

VW opens preorders for the ID.3, its first long-range electric car

Coming in 2020 with between 200 and 340 miles of range, and starting at around $33,000



















https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/8/18536668/vw-volkswagen-id-3-preorders-oelectric-car-long-range-ev



> The car will also be sold in 58kWh and 77kWh configurations, which will get 420 km (261 miles) and 550 km (342 miles), respectively. All models will be capable of 125kW DC fast charging. Preorders require a €1,000 (about $1,118) deposit and production is slated to begin at the end of this year. Deliveries start in Europe in mid-2020.





> Stackmann also said VW will offer a full warranty on the ID.3’s battery for up to eight years, 160,000 km (just under 100,000 miles), or the depreciation of the battery to 70 percent of its original maximum capacity. He added that the car will be equipped with advanced driver assistance technology, but did not go into detail about pricing.


----------



## jmartigar

These days in Barcelona we have had Automobile Barcelona with electric cars as principal topic. http://www.automobilebarcelona.com/

https://bigseoagency.com


----------



## Fontentí

Hope this will be a reality soon.


----------



## tio sam hong




----------



## Tatal

*Plans to buy 600 electric and battery-electric powered carriages over 10 years*

Plans to buy 600 electric and battery-electric powered carriages over 10 years




> Iarnród Éireann and the National Transport Authority have begun plans to buy up to 600 electric and battery-electric powered carriages over 10 years in the single biggest ever purchase of railway stock in the State’s history. Under Project Ireland 2040, €2 billion will be spent to electrify lines between Dublin and Maynooth, M3 Parkway, Hazelhatch and Drogheda; the purchase of 300 carriages; and increased capacity in Greater Dublin.





> Once completed, the Greater Dublin Area’s total rail fleet, and up to 80 percent of all heavy rail journeys in Ireland, will be ready for a potentially emissions-free future. Noise levels would also be significantly reduced.














source : The Irish Times


----------



## lawdefender

Nobina Increases Its Fleet Of BYD eBuses To 138 With New Order For Swedish Cities

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/05/0...ses-to-138-with-new-order-for-swedish-cities/

May 6th, 2019 by Kyle Field 

The largest bus operator in the Nordic region has ordered an additional 20 electric buses from BYD, bringing its total orders from the new energy company to 138.

This latest order was specifically for BYD’s K11 articulated bus that will bring 4 of the new electric buses to the Barkarby district of Stockholm, with the additional 16 headed to the city of Linköping. The first buses from the new orders will be delivered to Nobina at the end of this year and establish a clear pipeline of new BYD electric buses flowing into the region.

“Nobina is strengthening the position as the leading operator of electric bus solutions and sustainable public transport services in the Nordics,” said Martin Atterhall, Fleet Manager, Nobina Group. “Where the technical e-mobility concept by BYD has proven to fit perfectly well into the high demands among customers and PTAs in the Nordics regarding flexibility, total transport economy, quality and reliability.”


----------



## lawdefender

BYD Delivers The First Fleet Of Electric Buses To Argentina

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/05/25/byd-delivers-the-first-fleet-of-electric-buses-to-argentina/

May 25th, 2019 by Kyle Field 

A fleet of fully electric buses in Argentina was brought across the Chilean border and to its final destination in the City of Mendoza by BYD on May 23rd after making the lengthy trek to get into the country by freighter. The 12 new BYD K9 buses will be the first fleet of electric buses in Argentina when local bus operator STM puts them into operation later this year. They will go into operation after undergoing a multipoint delivery inspection which is standard procedure for fleets upon taking receipt of new vehicles.


----------



## 88-777

How are these buses charged? Or do they swap?


----------



## Westyguy

Do you really think that electric vehicles will be viable in rural and remote areas of Australia? And other similar remote areas of the world for that matter.

I live in rural Australia and it wouldn't be viable to have an electric car compared to my current petrol/gasoline car.

Also I have a question about recharge stations. How would you drive them in outback Australia when the current electric infrastructure doesn't exist yet?


----------



## goschio

^^
Electric is not the problem. Battery electric has the current limitations of range. Hydrogen electric would be very much suitable for long distances. Unfortunately, too expense at this stage and major focus is on batteries.


----------



## Kelli

US electric cars sales 2017 to present graphic:

https://dms.licdn.com/playback/C560...t=v2PAVQPFAPOedGDuKusGmj6xb1asjFblZfB5nkGrMK0


----------



## lawdefender

https://www.sohu.com/a/315186400_598586?referid=001cxzs00020008
http://www.sohu.com/a/313800532_100098207?referid=001cxzs00020008
http://www.sohu.com/a/312123148_122031

https://www.cnbeta.com/articles/tech/852611.htm


Tesla announced that it will produce the Model 3 Standard model at the Super plant in Shanghai, China, and officially open the vehicle booking. 

*Model 3 Standard model (Tesla China) has a NEDC mileage ： 460 km 
price range : starting from RMB 328,000 yuan*

100 km acceleration time: 5.6s
the maximum speed: 225km/h

*BYD Qin Pro EV500, after the subsidy price range :RMB 169,900-189,900 yuan *

The main boost of the Qin Pro EV Ultra-energy version is the EV600 model. It is equipped with a battery pack with a capacity of 69.5kW·h, with a energy density of 160Wh/kg and NEDC mileage : 520km

Qin PRO EV is equipped with a permanent magnet synchronous motor with a maximum power of 120-kilowatt (163 hp) and a maximum torque of 280 nm.
0-100 km acceleration time: 8.9s
the maximum speed: 150km/h

*Geely geometry A, after the subsidy price range : RMB 150,000-190,000 yuan *

Geometric A is equipped with A 51.9kWh battery pack with NEDC mileage: 410km
Geometric A ultra-long and standard range models are selected from 51.9kWh and 61.9kWh ternary lithium batteries , the maximum power of the permanent magnet synchronous motor is 120kW, the maximum torque is 250N·m
the maximum speed of the vehicle： 150km/h, 
0-100 km acceleration : 8.8s

*GAC New Energy Aion S, after the subsidy price range : RMB 139,800-205,800 yuan*

Aion S is equipped with a 58.8kWh battery pack with NEDC mileage : 510km
Its electric drive system has a maximum power of up to 135kW and a maximum torque of up to 300N·m, the Power Battery is the latest achievement in the development of GAC New energy and Ningde era, and its energy density can reach 170Wh/kg

The wind resistance coefficient is only 0.245cd
The maximum speed of the high spec model is 156km/h, and the maximum speed of the low spec model is 130km/h.
0-100 km acceleration time: 7.9s

outlook comparison:






























Interior design comparison:


----------



## lawdefender

http://www.sohu.com/a/318406374_99960418

Hozon U, electric medium SUV, pre-sale price range: RMB 150,000 ~ 210,000

Using the latest NCM811 high nickel battery, the energy density is 180Wh/kg. The battery pack uses a CTP splicing system combination scheme that is more flexible and more efficient. The battery case is made of high-strength aluminum profiles; 

NEDC range: 300-500 km

Two-wheel drive model 0-100 km speed : 6.6 seconds


----------



## Bikes

Westyguy said:


> Do you really think that electric vehicles will be viable in rural and remote areas of Australia? And other similar remote areas of the world for that matter.
> 
> I live in rural Australia and it wouldn't be viable to have an electric car compared to my current petrol/gasoline car.
> 
> Also I have a question about recharge stations. How would you drive them in outback Australia when the current electric infrastructure doesn't exist yet?


You don't need a grid. Solar panels + battery packs for the night use. 

Australia is a perfect place for electric cars, you have well above average of sunshine days.


----------



## Bond James Bond

Anticalaca said:


> hno:
> It looks like Tesla is starting to emulate the gun maker Kalashnikov in the 'functional but square ugly' design in new electric cars.


It looks like a military assault vehicle.

Which is probably why it'll sell well.


----------



## Anticalaca

Bond James Bond said:


> It looks like a military assault vehicle.
> 
> Which is probably why it'll sell well.


The Hummer didn't sell well, and it was in fact a military assault vehicle.


----------



## RyukyuRhymer

AnOldBlackMarble said:


> I think this is publicity stunt. I don't think this is what the final product will look like.


in order to meet some US regulations, it seems like the headline designs definitely needs to be changed. a single long line, no matter how bright, isnt allowed.


----------



## mopc

Anticalaca said:


> The Hummer didn't sell well, and it was in fact a military assault vehicle.


The Hummer was pretty successful actually


----------



## Bond James Bond

Anticalaca said:


> The Hummer didn't sell well, and it was in fact a military assault vehicle.


The Hummer did in fact sell well.


----------



## womfalcs3

The lowest Cybertruck tier costs 40 thousand dollars, has 250 miles of range, and 7,500 lbs of towing capacity.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks...-regular-cab-long-box-2-wheel-drive-wt-406455

A Silverado has 33% more towing capacity (10,000 lbs) than a Cybertruck for 28 grand MSRP, but you can get it at 25 or lower. Fuel economy is 16-21 mpg.... so if we take 18 mpg as the average, you would get over 500 miles on a single tank.

100% more range.
33% more towing capacity.
Minutes to fully refuel the truck as opposed to 1 hour or more with the Cybertruck. Many gas stations.
$15k less.

If it was at least performing as would be expected from the lowest tier of midsize trucks, I would say $15k is the electric car premium. But it performs substantially worse.


----------



## Dmerdude

womfalcs3 said:


> The lowest Cybertruck tier costs 40 thousand dollars, has 250 miles of range, and 7,500 lbs of towing capacity.
> 
> https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks...-regular-cab-long-box-2-wheel-drive-wt-406455
> 
> A Silverado has 33% more towing capacity (10,000 lbs) than a Cybertruck for 28 grand MSRP, but you can get it at 25 or lower. Fuel economy is 16-21 mpg.... so if we take 18 mpg as the average, you would get over 500 miles on a single tank.
> 
> 100% more range.
> 33% more towing capacity.
> Minutes to fully refuel the truck as opposed to 1 hour or more with the Cybertruck. Many gas stations.
> $15k less.
> 
> If it was at least performing as would be expected from the lowest tier of midsize trucks, I would say $15k is the electric car premium. But it performs substantially worse.


This looked wrong so I googled.

"When equipped with the 4.3L V6 engine, the 2019 Silverado 1500 is able to tow as much as 7,600 pounds." So that's the max. 
https://www.thompsonchevrolet.com/blog/how-much-can-the-2019-chevrolet-silverado-1500-tow/amp/

The ones that can tow more have bigger engines (ie: more expensive).

Lowest Cybertruck can tow 7500+ (ie: min).

Silverado will have higher operating costs as gas is more expensive than electricity and internal combustion engine vehicles need more maintenance.


----------



## Anticalaca

Bond James Bond said:


> The Hummer did in fact sell well.


And yet GM had to sell the brand in 2009.


----------



## fountainkopf

I still try to sell my exoskeleton 3-wheeler with CYBERPUNK appearance from 2016.:nuts:


----------



## ANNUNAKIS

japanese001 said:


>


It seems like from the movie Blade Runner or the game Cyberpunk 2077. Catchy futuristic design :cheers: I like it.


----------



## lawdefender

Global EV Sales In October 2019 Shrunk 28%: Tesla Extends its Lead

https://insideevs.com/news/385302/global-ev-sales-october-2019/

The Tesla Model 3, with 13,359 estimated sales, remains the best-selling model by a huge margin, both monthly and year-to-date.

With two months to go, Model 3 should be able to achieve 250,000-280,000 sales this year - more than the next few models combined.

Aside from Tesla, BAIC EU-Series stands out with 7,623 sales in China.


----------



## lawdefender

GAC Aion S, November sales have reached 5,538 units, ranking second in the ranking of pure electric vehicle sales in China.

https://auto.gasgoo.com/news/201912/13I70145316C110.shtml
https://news.sina.cn/gn/2019-12-12/detail-iihnzahi7053638.d.html











Guangzhou Automobile Corporation(GAC) Aion S



The drag coefficient is only 0.245

0-100 km/h acceleration : 7.9 s.

The NEDC cruising range : 510 kilometers

Auto-driving : Level 2

and the battery can be charged to 80% in half an hour by fast charging. The Aion series models use the lithium battery NCM 811 with a battery energy density of 170 watt-hours/kg.

After the subsidy, the price range: 139,800 to 205,800 yuan.

Aion S's low-spec version (Hyun 530) after subsidized starting from : RMB 140,000 yuan (USD 20,833)

high-spec model (Charming 630), after subsidized starting from : RMB 160,000 yuan （USD 23,809）


----------



## redbaron_012

ANNUNAKIS said:


> It seems like from the movie Blade Runner or the game Cyberpunk 2077. Catchy futuristic design :cheers: I like it.


At first glance I coudn't figure the fluffy front wheel and tire on Cybertruck !


----------



## womfalcs3

Dmerdude said:


> This looked wrong so I googled.
> 
> "When equipped with the 4.3L V6 engine, the 2019 Silverado 1500 is able to tow as much as 7,600 pounds." So that's the max.
> https://www.thompsonchevrolet.com/blog/how-much-can-the-2019-chevrolet-silverado-1500-tow/amp/
> 
> The ones that can tow more have bigger engines (ie: more expensive).
> 
> Lowest Cybertruck can tow 7500+ (ie: min).
> 
> Silverado will have higher operating costs as gas is more expensive than electricity and internal combustion engine vehicles need more maintenance.


You're right. US News must be wrong, then.


----------



## japanese001

..


----------



## TOGG

> *A dream come true: Turkey reveals prototype of first domestic car*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan stands between two models of Turkey's first domestically developed automobile during the launching ceremony, Gebze, Kocaeli, Dec. 27. 2019. (AA Photo)_
> 
> *The long wait ended Friday as Turkey unveiled its first domestically developed electric car. With plans to hit the road in 2022, nearly TL 22 billion will be invested in the project*
> 
> Turkey’s long journey to produce a fully homegrown car came to an end Friday as the country unveiled the first prototypes in a grand ceremony in the northwestern town of Gebze.
> 
> *President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan unveiled prototypes of a sport utility vehicle (SUV) and a sedan, both fully electric and C-segment models. Mass production of the SUV will begin in 2022, while the production of the sedan model is expected to launch after the SUV goes into production.*
> 
> “Today, we are witnessing a historic day, the fruition of Turkey’s 60-year-long dream,” Erdoğan said in his speech at the unveiling ceremony at the Gebze Information Technologies (IT) Valley, which was also opened Friday.
> 
> “Turkey is several steps ahead of others by entering the electric automobile sector. We are not manufacturing cars for our needs alone. We are looking forward to establishing a global brand,” the president noted.
> 
> Erdoğan went on to say that Turkey is not only a market for new technologies but has become a country that develops, produces and exports them all over the world.
> 
> "We do not need to purchase a license or permission from anyone; we determine all the technical features ourselves," he added, highlighting the role of 100 Turkish engineers that worked on the project.
> 
> Erdoğan placed an advance order for the car. The two models unveiled were in red and white, the colors of the Turkish flag.
> 
> *The fully electric SUV will come in two different engine configurations: 200 horsepower or 400 horsepower,* Turkey’s Automobile Joint Venture Group (TOGG) CEO Gürcan Karakaş announced during the presentation.
> 
> *The 400 horsepower will do 0 to 100 kph in 4.8 seconds. It will have a range of up to 500 kilometers and its locally produced Lithium-ion battery will reach 80% charge under 30 minutes.*
> 
> The president also emphasized that the automobile "will not pollute the environment thanks to its zero-emission technology.”
> 
> Erdoğan later drove the prototype near the Gebze Information Technologies (IT) Valley.
> 
> Hours before the ceremony, some major details of the domestic car project were revealed, with the government announcing comprehensive incentives to support the endeavor.
> 
> TOGG comprises five of Turkey's leading industrial groups that have joined forces to build the car. It will establish a factory in the northwestern province of Bursa, often dubbed the capital Turkey's automotive industry, according to a presidential decree published in the country’s Official Gazette Friday.
> 
> Erdoğan said some 1 million square meters of a 4-million-square-meter parcel of land in Bursa's Gemlik district which currently belongs to the Turkish Armed Forces will be allocated for the factory. *The production plant will be completed in 2021, and the first car will be produced in 2022.*
> 
> *The domestic electric car project will see a fixed investment of TL 22 billion over 13 years and will enable the production of five models and a total output of 175,000 vehicles per year.*
> 
> The investment will enjoy comprehensive tax cuts, free land allocation, interest rate reductions and a government purchase guarantee of 30,000 vehicles until the end of 2035, according to the decree. Investors are obliged to provide at least TL 3.5 billion in cash capital by the end of 2023.
> 
> Five models of the car will be produced by a workforce of around 4,323 people, including 300 qualified personnel.
> 
> Industry and Technology Minister Mustafa Varank said they have already initiated works on necessary regulations as well as for establishing a recharging infrastructure suitable for the electric vehicles.
> 
> *“With Turkey’s automobile, we are establishing a brand that will compete in the international market,”* Varank said.
> 
> Turkey is already a big exporter to Europe of cars made domestically by firms such as Ford, Fiat Chrysler, Renault, Toyota and Hyundai. But the cars are made by global autos firms, usually in joint ventures with local partners.
> 
> “The project will help our automobile industry further increase its exports, which have reached $32 billion a year,” Varank said.
> 
> Turkey was Europe's ninth-largest car market as of November, according to the Automotive Distributors’ Association (ODD). Some 316,427 cars were sold in the country between January and November of this year, a decrease of 26% year-on-year.
> 
> Following repeated calls from Erdoğan, Turkey in November 2017 ventured into a groundbreaking initiative to manufacture its domestic automobile. The project has brought together the country’s largest manufacturers and companies in a consortium that includes Anadolu Group, BMC, Kök Group, Turkcell and Zorlu Holding, all experienced in their own areas of operation.
> 
> The five domestic firms, now with 19% shares each, and the Union of Chambers and Commodity Exchanges of Turkey (TOBB), with 5% of the shares, lead the TOGG joint venture. The TOGG Industry and Trade Inc.’s foundation and partnership agreements were signed on May 31, 2018.
> 
> TOGG’s CEO is former Bosch executive Gürcan Karakaş and its chief operating officer is Sergio Rocha, former General Motors Korea's chief executive.
> 
> The project, whose intellectual and industrial property rights will be fully owned by Turkey, is expected to contribute 50 billion euros ($55.81 billion) to the Turkish economy and 7 billion euros to the current account deficit, and create direct and indirect employment for 4,000 and 20,000 people, respectively.


https://www.dailysabah.com/automoti...urkey-reveals-prototype-of-first-domestic-car


----------



## TOGG

*Presentation of the Electric Turkish Car brand TOGG*

SUV and SEDAN Version


----------



## TOGG

www.togg.com.tr


----------



## TOGG




----------



## Anticalaca

That's the beauty of the EV (and the horror, for some established automakers and their nations). Now, without the need of the 'combustion engine know how', almost any country can make a fully local car in the near future.


----------



## Mr_Dru

*Tesla Model 3 the No.1 best-Selling vehicle in the Netherlands in 2019*

Tesla’s biggest market in Europe is not Norway anymore as the Netherlands takes the lead with a surge in Model 3 sales at the end of the year ahead of reduced tax incentives. Since the European launch of the Model 3 earlier this year, the vehicle clearly reinvigorated Tesla’s sales on the continent.

Several markets in which Tesla was only delivering a few hundred cars per year when it was only Model S and Model X, like Austria, Belgium, Spain, and Italy, are now seeing thousands of deliveries. The Netherlands was always an important market for Tesla, and before the introduction of the Model 3 in Europe, it was neck-and-neck with Norway as Tesla’s best European market.

electrek.co


----------



## Mr_Dru

*Tesla registrations (Europe) 2019*

TMC-Tesla


----------



## lawdefender

Fossil Vehicle Sales In Global Freefall — Down 4.7% In 2019! Electric Vehicle Sales Continue To Grow — CleanTechnica Report

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/01/1...2019-electric-vehicle-sales-continue-to-grow/

The world’s fossil fuel vehicle sales have continued to freefall in 2019, dropping by around 4.35 million, or some 4.7%, compared to 2018, accelerating a now inexorable trend. Global electric vehicle sales meanwhile have continued to rise, with 2019 EV market share reaching 4.7% in China and 3.8% in Europe. (Note that “electric vehicles” in this report concerns both fully electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids.)


----------



## TOGG

The construction of the TOGG factory plant will start in May 2020 and will be finished in one year.




> *Construction to start in May for first domestic car plant*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Turkey's first indigenous automobile model on display during the official opening ceremony in the Gebze district of northwestern Kocaeli province, Dec. 27, 2019. (AA Photo)_
> 
> *Factory construction of Turkey’s first fully electric and entirely domestically produced car is set to launch in May, with a capacity to make an average of 175,000 vehicles per year once work is completed*, the chairman of the producing venture group said Tuesday.
> 
> Speaking at a news conference in Information Technologies Valley (IT Valley) in Kocaeli, Turkey's Automobile Joint Venture Group (TOGG) Chairman Gürcan Karakaş noted that 1 million of the vehicles are set to be produced by 2032, with the rough construction of the factory is estimated to extend over the course of one year. The plant is expected to attract TL 22 billion in investment over the coming 15 years.
> 
> TOGG, a consortium of the country’s five major companies, has recently unveiled the prototypes of the first-ever homebred car as part of a groundbreaking launch ceremony.
> 
> The facility set to produce the vehicle – located Bursa's Gemlik district – will be a smart factory, Karakaş said, noting that the group has been consulting with companies around the globe regarding its production line. Karakaş said the company was receiving professional assistance from world-renowned companies to determine the possible costs of each part of the vehicle and attempt to shorten the production process.
> 
> “We are in talks with German engineering firm EDAG as a technology partner for the vehicle integration,” he said, adding they were also in search of Turkish companies capable of supplying the required technology. The production group has also conducted meetings with some 18 companies, local and international, for the design of the car.
> 
> When asked about the sales price of the car, Karakaş stated that such an announcement would not yet be fair in terms of both marketing and competition.
> 
> *He noted the group was also working on a brand name that would suit the global market, which is planned to be revealed toward the end of the year.*
> 
> Domestically made car to go on show at Spanish fair
> 
> There are currently two prototypes of the car, a sport utility vehicle (SUV) and a sedan – both fully electric and C-segment models. Mass production of the SUV will begin in 2022, while the production of the sedan model is expected to launch after the SUV goes into production.
> 
> The C-SUV model will be presented at the Mobile World Congress (MWC) to be held in Barcelona, Spain on Feb. 24-27, which will be the first time the car will be showcased in Europe.
> 
> Karakaş said that the vehicle will have a marked impact on the automotive sector and will be produced using eco-friendly technologies.
> 
> The new state-of-the-art application will transform the smart car into a high-tech smart life conductor capable of communicating with the entire smart environment, collecting and processing information, producing solutions and presenting these solutions to the user in the form of concrete products and services.
> 
> *Latest battery technology*
> 
> *The SUV will come in two different engine configurations: 200 horsepower or 400 horsepower.* The 400 horsepower will go from 0 to 100 kph in 4.8 seconds. *It will have a range of up to 500 kilometers and its locally produced Lithium-ion battery will reach 80% charge in less than 30 minutes.*
> 
> The construction of charging infrastructure will be carried out in line with those currently in development globally, Karakaş said, noting that they are evaluating the examples from Norway, Germany, France, the U.K., the U.S. and China.
> 
> The battery options are changeable, as the company will choose the most suitable and the newest technology, he added.
> 
> *“The charging infrastructure will be ready in 2022 not only for the domestic vehicle but also for others brands of electric cars,”* he said, underlining that the market for cars with internal combustion engines is estimated to see at least a 50% decline by 2030 as electric vehicles begin to dominate the markets.
> 
> The domestically produced vehicle is expected to initially attract European customers, Karakaş said, adding that Central Asian markets are expected to follow once the necessary infrastructural requirements have been built in those countries


https://www.dailysabah.com/automoti...-to-start-in-may-for-first-domestic-car-plant


----------



## TOGG

*Zorlu Energy Solutions* ( ZES ) Charging Stations in Turkey.


https://zes.net/










*Charging Station Map of ZES in Turkey
*


----------



## lawdefender

https://insideevs.com/news/396177/global-ev-sales-december-2019/

The Tesla Model 3 set new all-time sales records: 53,742 for a single month and over 300,000 for the year (300,885 according to Tesla).

The second-best last year (111,047), with also a personal monthly record of 21,963, is the BAIC EU-Series - the first non-Tesla model to exceed 20,000 in a single month.

Interestingly, the Nissan LEAF (5,414 in December and 69,873 YTD) managed to secure the third step of the podium, ahead of the weak BYD Yuan (1,434 in December and 67,839 YTD). The LEAF sales shrunk in 2019 by 20% though.











Top 5 YTD:

Tesla: 63,148 and 367,820 YTD
BYD: 11,099 and 229,506 YTD
BAIC: 36,323 and 160,251 YTD
SAIC: 18,457 and 137,666 YTD
BMW: 15,646 and 128,883 YTD


----------



## lawdefender

GAC’s New EV Exposed: The AION V is Another mid-size Pure Electric SUV

The new car is positioned as a pure electric SUV model, it is also the 3rd EV from GAC New Energy, it will be equipped with ternary lithium battery from CATL, with a maximum power of 181hp (135 kW).

n terms of appearance, GAC AION V continues GAC new energy Aion family design language. The exterior design emphasizes the sense of movement. The two fold lines extending from the cabin cover bring a visual impression of diving. The new-style headlights complement the vehicle design, bringing a certain sense of freshness. At the same time, the straight waterfall daytime running lights and turn signals light up fresh fruits more intuitively, making the new car more recognizable.

From the side, the new car features a hidden B / C pillar design, which enhances the floating effect of the roof. The length, width and height of the new car are 4585/1920 / 1728mm and the wheelbase is 2830mm, it will be positioned below GAC AION LX. In addition, AION V also offers two tire sizes of 235/55 R19 and 245/50 R20. The design of the rear end is more rounded and solid than the front end, and the overall layering is more prominent. The diffuser at the bottom of the car optimizes airflow and highlights the sportiness.

In terms of configuration, AION V will provide front 6 radar, rear 6 radar, rear 3 radar, two-color body, rear camera, panoramic sunroof, exterior rearview mirror with camera, door handle, wheel rim, front camera, rim according to different models Decorative cover, rear door privacy glass, rear corner privacy glass, rear windshield privacy glass, antennas of different colors, luggage racks of different colors, spoilers of different colors, etc.

In terms of power, AION V will be powered by a permanent magnet synchronous motor model TZ180XYA1201 produced by Nidec Motors (Zhejiang) Co., Ltd., with a maximum power of 181 hp (135 kW). As for the power battery pack, it is equipped with a ternary lithium battery pack from CATL. For more news about new cars, we will continue to pay attention. 

https://www.chinapev.com/gac-motor/...aion-v-is-another-mid-size-pure-electric-suv/


----------



## lawdefender

January of 2020 ranking of new energy vehicle sales in China

https://d1ev.com/kol/109409

1. Roewe Ei5, January sales: 3,068










2. BMW 5 Series PHEV , January sales:3,000










3. GAC Aion S, January sales: 2648










4. Pentium B30 EV, January sales: 2,161










5. BAIC EU series, January sales : 1966


----------



## VelesHomais




----------



## Marsupalami

baters gonna hate, but its cool! - like , Delorean cool


----------



## lawdefender

Koenigsegg’s First-Ever Four-Seater Is a 1,677-Horsepower Beast @ Euro 1.38 million


Koenigsegg is gearing up to release its debut four-seater, the Gemera. But just because you can finally bring some friends along for the ride, doesn’t mean the Swedish manufacturer is sacrificing speed. The supercar cranks out 1,677 horsepower on its way from 0 to 62 miles per hour in just 1.9 seconds.

The Gemera is powered by a sequentially turbocharged 2.0-liter inline-three engine, paired with three electric motors and Koenigsegg’s single-speed direct-drive transmission. The intake and exhaust valves are activated by Koenigsegg’s Freevalve system, which uses solenoids. The automaker insists the Gemera is 20 percent more fuel efficient compared to your typical 2.0-liter four-cylinder, largely due to the Freevalve and cylinder deactivation.

Reports reveal the car can travel for 31 miles on the 15.0-kWh battery alone, while the hybrid range extends to 590 miles. And for those worrying about the roar of the engine, or lack thereof, the Gemera is outfitted with a titanium exhaust to ensure a more than sizable growl.

In addition to being Koenigsegg’s first four-seater, the Gemera is also the manufacturer’s first all-wheel-drive model, complete with all-wheel steering and torque vectoring. But while the vehicle is made for four, it only has two doors, although they’re quite large, as they open upward.

The interior of the Gemera is a tech-enthusiasts dream, featuring two 13-inch touchscreens, a gauge cluster screen, and two additional screens for the side and rearview cameras.


*In 2019, Chinese company Evergrande and Koenigsegg established a joint venture with headquarters in Sweden. Evergrande holds 65% of the shares and Koenigsegg holds 35%. Gemera is the first car produced by the joint venture. The battery used in this car is the latest generation product developed by Evergrande New Energy Technology Group. The inverter is developed and produced by Evergrande's Dutch e-Traction company.
*


https://www.highsnobiety.com/p/koenigsegg-gemera/
https://www.sohu.com/a/377705018_161795?spm=smpc.author.fd-d.12.1583342830407HRJWvX4

https://www.koenigsegg.com/gemera/technical-specifications/

Technical specifications

Propulsion
Internal Combustion Engine (ICE)

• Koenigsegg Tiny Friendly Giant Twin Turbo Freevalve 3-cylinder Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) with dry sump lubrication
• Compression: 9.5:1 - Bore: 95 mm - stroke: 93.5 mm
• Closed-loop combustion control with in-cylinder pressure sensing
• 440 kW (600 bhp) at 7500 rpm, red line at 8500 rpm
• Torque: 600 Nm from 2000 rpm to 7000 rpm
• ICE is mounted midship and powers the front axle together with one E-motor through a propshaft
• Engine weight: 70 kg


E-MOTORS

• Three Electric Motors: One for each rear wheel with 500 bhp and 1000 Nm each and one E-motor on the crankshaft 400 bhp and 500 Nm to power the front wheels (together with the ICE)
ENGINE MANAGEMENT

• Koenigsegg Engine Control Module
• Flex fuel capability including E100, Methanol and sun fuel
• High power ion sensing coil-on-plug ignition system

Output

• Total output 1700 bhp - 3500 Nm, including Hydracoup
• Max wheel torque: 11,000 Nm at ICE 4000 rpm
• 1100 bhp of combined electric power (counting E-motors separately – 1400 bhp)


Range

• ICE only range: up to 950 km
• Electric range: up to 50 km
• Total range: up to 1000 km

TRANSMISSION

FRONT AXLE

• Midmounted Koenigsegg ICE + E-motor Hydracoup Direct Drive transmission powering the front axle. The front axle has torque vectoring capability and can be disconnected to save energy in EV only mode
Rear AXLE

• Independent E-motors with independent transmissions enabling torque vectoring and reverse. The rear transmission are equipped with wet clutches for decoupling, for range mode.

Chassis

• Carbon fiber monocoque – wheel to wheel stiffness – 40 KNm
• Front and rear aluminum sub-frames
• Adjustable and lightweight anti-roll bars front and rear
• Robotized hydraulically adjustable ride height front and rear

Body

• B-pillarless, two doors coupe with fully accessible four-seater interior
• Carbon fiber body panels
• Visible carbon fiber on front and side splitters and venturi
• Carbon fiber wheels (optional)

Handling
Steering

• Rack and pinion electric power-assisted steering
• Active rear wheel steering

SUSPENSION

• Double wishbones and adjustable gas-hydraulic shock absorbers
• Electronically adjustable ride height

ELECTRONIC STABILITY CONTROL

• Koenigsegg Electronic Stability Control (KES)

TRACTION CONTROL

• 3 settings: wet – normal – track

ASSISTED DRIVING

• Autonomous Driving Level 2 ADAS
• Adaptive cruise control
• Lane assist
• Park assist
• Surround-view cameras (helicopter view)

BRAKES

• Front: Ventilated ceramic discs Ø415 mm, 40 mm wide 6-piston
• Rear: Ventilated ceramic discs Ø390 mm, 34 mm wide 4-piston
• Koenigsegg calipers with ceramic pistons
• Electric Brake Booster
• ABS


----------



## FLAWDA-FELLA

^^ Wow, this car is sexy and fast as hell! :drool:


----------



## VelesHomais

It's too sexy for my taste


----------



## blaye

new_DS9 E-Tense_by PSA

4.93m
360hp
4 wheels driving
plug-in hybrid car


----------



## blaye

lawdefender said:


> Koenigsegg’s First-Ever Four-Seater Is a 1,677-Horsepower Beast @ Euro 1.38 million
> 
> 
> Koenigsegg is gearing up to release its debut four-seater, the Gemera. But just because you can finally bring some friends along for the ride, doesn’t mean the Swedish manufacturer is sacrificing speed. The supercar cranks out 1,677 horsepower on its way from 0 to 62 miles per hour in just 1.9 seconds.
> 
> The Gemera is powered by a sequentially turbocharged 2.0-liter inline-three engine, paired with three electric motors and Koenigsegg’s single-speed direct-drive transmission. The intake and exhaust valves are activated by Koenigsegg’s Freevalve system, which uses solenoids. The automaker insists the Gemera is 20 percent more fuel efficient compared to your typical 2.0-liter four-cylinder, largely due to the Freevalve and cylinder deactivation.
> 
> Reports reveal the car can travel for 31 miles on the 15.0-kWh battery alone, while the hybrid range extends to 590 miles. And for those worrying about the roar of the engine, or lack thereof, the Gemera is outfitted with a titanium exhaust to ensure a more than sizable growl.
> 
> In addition to being Koenigsegg’s first four-seater, the Gemera is also the manufacturer’s first all-wheel-drive model, complete with all-wheel steering and torque vectoring. But while the vehicle is made for four, it only has two doors, although they’re quite large, as they open upward.
> 
> The interior of the Gemera is a tech-enthusiasts dream, featuring two 13-inch touchscreens, a gauge cluster screen, and two additional screens for the side and rearview cameras.
> 
> 
> *In 2019, Chinese company Evergrande and Koenigsegg established a joint venture with headquarters in Sweden. Evergrande holds 65% of the shares and Koenigsegg holds 35%. Gemera is the first car produced by the joint venture. The battery used in this car is the latest generation product developed by Evergrande New Energy Technology Group. The inverter is developed and produced by Evergrande's Dutch e-Traction company.
> *
> 
> 
> https://www.highsnobiety.com/p/koenigsegg-gemera/
> https://www.sohu.com/a/377705018_161795?spm=smpc.author.fd-d.12.1583342830407HRJWvX4
> 
> https://www.koenigsegg.com/gemera/technical-specifications/
> 
> Technical specifications
> 
> Propulsion
> Internal Combustion Engine (ICE)
> 
> • Koenigsegg Tiny Friendly Giant Twin Turbo Freevalve 3-cylinder Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) with dry sump lubrication
> • Compression: 9.5:1 - Bore: 95 mm - stroke: 93.5 mm
> • Closed-loop combustion control with in-cylinder pressure sensing
> • 440 kW (600 bhp) at 7500 rpm, red line at 8500 rpm
> • Torque: 600 Nm from 2000 rpm to 7000 rpm
> • ICE is mounted midship and powers the front axle together with one E-motor through a propshaft
> • Engine weight: 70 kg
> 
> 
> E-MOTORS
> 
> • Three Electric Motors: One for each rear wheel with 500 bhp and 1000 Nm each and one E-motor on the crankshaft 400 bhp and 500 Nm to power the front wheels (together with the ICE)
> ENGINE MANAGEMENT
> 
> • Koenigsegg Engine Control Module
> • Flex fuel capability including E100, Methanol and sun fuel
> • High power ion sensing coil-on-plug ignition system
> 
> Output
> 
> • Total output 1700 bhp - 3500 Nm, including Hydracoup
> • Max wheel torque: 11,000 Nm at ICE 4000 rpm
> • 1100 bhp of combined electric power (counting E-motors separately – 1400 bhp)
> 
> 
> Range
> 
> • ICE only range: up to 950 km
> • Electric range: up to 50 km
> • Total range: up to 1000 km
> 
> TRANSMISSION
> 
> FRONT AXLE
> 
> • Midmounted Koenigsegg ICE + E-motor Hydracoup Direct Drive transmission powering the front axle. The front axle has torque vectoring capability and can be disconnected to save energy in EV only mode
> Rear AXLE
> 
> • Independent E-motors with independent transmissions enabling torque vectoring and reverse. The rear transmission are equipped with wet clutches for decoupling, for range mode.
> 
> Chassis
> 
> • Carbon fiber monocoque – wheel to wheel stiffness – 40 KNm
> • Front and rear aluminum sub-frames
> • Adjustable and lightweight anti-roll bars front and rear
> • Robotized hydraulically adjustable ride height front and rear
> 
> Body
> 
> • B-pillarless, two doors coupe with fully accessible four-seater interior
> • Carbon fiber body panels
> • Visible carbon fiber on front and side splitters and venturi
> • Carbon fiber wheels (optional)
> 
> Handling
> Steering
> 
> • Rack and pinion electric power-assisted steering
> • Active rear wheel steering
> 
> SUSPENSION
> 
> • Double wishbones and adjustable gas-hydraulic shock absorbers
> • Electronically adjustable ride height
> 
> ELECTRONIC STABILITY CONTROL
> 
> • Koenigsegg Electronic Stability Control (KES)
> 
> TRACTION CONTROL
> 
> • 3 settings: wet – normal – track
> 
> ASSISTED DRIVING
> 
> • Autonomous Driving Level 2 ADAS
> • Adaptive cruise control
> • Lane assist
> • Park assist
> • Surround-view cameras (helicopter view)
> 
> BRAKES
> 
> • Front: Ventilated ceramic discs Ø415 mm, 40 mm wide 6-piston
> • Rear: Ventilated ceramic discs Ø390 mm, 34 mm wide 4-piston
> • Koenigsegg calipers with ceramic pistons
> • Electric Brake Booster
> • ABS


nice chinese car.....65% chinese 35% swedish....and volvo is chinese too...poor sweden...


----------



## TiagoNC

With all these releases of new electric cars models and rising production, are the ev adoption is what predicted or bigger to 2020?
will it help the greenhouse crises?


----------



## BenFerro

> *2,000 employees to take part in Turkey's homegrown car's factory construction*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Some 2,000 people will be employed in the construction of the facility where Turkey’s first domestic fully-electric car will go into production, while the factory is set to produce 175,000 vehicles annually.*
> 
> The factory will employ 4,323 people as of the year 2032, according to comments made as part of an environmental impact assessment (EIA) meeting held Wednesday in the Gemlik district of northwestern Turkey’s Bursa province where the facility will be located.
> 
> The faculty will be established on 1.2 million square meters (296 acres) of land, and the easement right of the land, during the next 49 years, will belong to the joint venture group that is producing the vehicle.
> 
> Turkey’s long journey to produce a fully homegrown car came to an end on Dec. 27 last year as the country unveiled the prototypes in a grand ceremony in Gebze.
> 
> President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan unveiled prototypes of a sport utility vehicle (SUV) and a sedan, both fully electric, and C-segment models. Mass production of the SUV will begin in 2022, while the production of the sedan model is expected to launch after the SUV goes into production.
> 
> Turkey's Automobile Joint Venture Group (TOGG) – a consortium of Turkey's five major companies that joined hands to manufacture the country's domestic car – will produce five different models – an SUV, sedan, C-segment hatchback, B-SUV and B-MPV – through 2030 and own their intellectual and industrial property rights.
> 
> The SUV will come in two different engine configurations: 200 horsepower or 400 horsepower. The 400 horsepower will go from 0 to 100 kph (62 mph) in 4.8 seconds. It will have a range of up to 500 kilometers (310 miles) and its locally produced lithium-ion battery will reach an 80% charge in less than 30 minutes.
> 
> TOGG's electric vehicle platform, completely designed by TOGG engineers for all five models, will be original and patented. The vehicles will also be supported by the government with tax discounts and incentives.
> 
> Environment and Urbanization Provincial Director Mehmet Ersan Aytaç, Environment and Urbanization Provincial Deputy Director Selçuk Yalçın, Departmental Manager Ahmet Çakmak, engineers Ergin Demiral and Mehmet Yıldırım along with officials from the firm that carried out the EIA report, gave a presentation on the related issues during the meeting.
> 
> The meeting was also attended by the ruling Justice and Development Party (AK Party) Bursa Deputy Zafer Işık, Gemlik Mayor Mehmet Uğur Sertaslan, Chairman of Gemlik Chamber of Commerce and Industry Paşa Ağdemir and representatives of nongovernmental organizations.


https://www.dailysabah.com/business...n-turkeys-homegrown-cars-factory-construction


----------



## BenFerro

> *Northern Cyprus unveils first domestically produced car Günsel*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC) on Thursday publicly unveiled prototypes for two domestically produced auto models after years of work by the Near East University (YDÜ) and its research and development (R&D) teams.
> 
> The project to develop the Günsel was first launched in 2016 and only now has resulted in the unveiling of the B9 and the SUV-type J9.
> 
> Speaking at the unveiling ceremony held in Girne (otherwise known as Kyrenia), Turkish Cypriot Prime Minister Ersin Tatar noted that the achievement marked a satisfying moment in the TRNC's history and congratulated everyone involved in the development of the country's first homegrown automobile project.
> 
> Tatar said that although the TRNC was often referred to negatively in the region, this development was something that could only put the country in a good light,
> 
> "We are the descendants of a successful nation that embraces and glorifies our state," he noted.
> 
> Also speaking at the ceremony, Turkey's ambassador to Lefkoşa (or Nicosia) Ali Murat Başçeri congratulated everyone who had put great effort into the project.
> 
> Noting that the automotive industry was on the cusp of a new era, evolving to incorporate electric power and network technologies, Başçeri said that he was happy to see the Günsel project's readiness to embrace the new.
> 
> Başçeri pointed out that the company would provide a chance to improve the quality of the R&D ecosystem of the TRNC hoping to inspire the emergence of further companies.
> 
> Başçeri stressed that the R&D and innovation works set to be carried out in technoparks would forge the future of the TRNC, despite the political obstacles and restrictions faced by the country.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Professor Irfan Günsel, chairman of the board of trustees at the Near East University, stated that the domestically produced vehicles would be a great turning point for the country, adding they were happy to be working on the project together.
> 
> The ceremony was also attended by Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Kudret Özersay, several other ministers, parliamentarians, the TRNC's third president, Derviş Eroğlu, as well as an assortment of businesspeople, both foreign and local.
> 
> The car will incorporate the latest electrical technology and aims to go from zero to 100 kilometers in eight seconds, with a 120 kilowatt (kW) electric engine equivalent to 160 horsepower.
> 
> The development process of the automobile is said to have involved a combination of 10,000 very safe, advanced and efficient parts.
> 
> A cooperation protocol has been signed with 800 companies from 28 countries for the parts to be used in the production process of the TRNC's first domestically produced automobile and mass production set to begin in 2021.


https://www.dailysabah.com/automoti...yprus-unveils-first-domestically-produced-car


----------



## Spyrith

TiagoNC said:


> With all these releases of new electric cars models and rising production, are the ev adoption is what predicted or bigger to 2020?
> will it help the greenhouse crises?


Unfortunately, I think it will take decades until EV car sales can finally make a visible dent in greenhouse gas emissions. First you need them to become a majority of new cars sold, and then you'll need them to actually replace the existing gas powered cars currently on the road. The first objective could probably be reached within 10-15 years, but the second will take at least another 10-15 years.


----------



## JBsam

While I definitely support the push towards an EV future and the innovative cars getting released by the new startups in the space, I find that it is a lost cause for the most part. As we see with Tesla, even the company with the highest volume production is not able to break even. 

Once the traditional automakers switch fully to EV mode (they have already the process), many of these EV startups will end up in the dustbin. We have already countless failure like Bright Automotive, AMP, Aptera, Coda, Detroit Electric, Fisker Automotive, Faraday Future and LeEco


----------



## Slartibartfas

Did an intern design tht "TOGG" logo or did they actually pay money for that?


----------



## BenFerro

This is not the final design. TOGG is just the name of the consortium ( Türkiye Otomobil Girisim Grubu ).They will release the final design of the Logo and the brand name in Autumn 2020.

Btw, tomorrow is the foundation of the TOGG Factory. 175.000 till 500.000 Electric Cars will be produced here soon.


----------



## BenFerro

*



President Erdoğan lays foundation of Turkey’s 1st domestic car factory









Click to expand...

*


> The groundbreaking ceremony of the construction of Turkey’s first domestic car plant was held Saturday in northwestern Bursa province with the attendance of President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.
> Speaking at the ceremony, Erdoğan said the construction will finish in 18 months and take the first vehicle from the production line in the last quarter of 2022.











'More than a factory': Turkey breaks ground for 1st domestic car plant


Set to host Turkey's indigenous car engineering, design and production center, the TOGG factory is expected to be completed in 18 months and will...




www.dailysabah.com


----------



## BenFerro

Foundation Ceremony of the TOGG Factory


----------



## nazrey

FRANCE
*Newron Motors opens EV-1 e-bike bookings*
Purva Jain on Mac 12, 2020
*KUALA LUMPUR*: French electric motorcycle manufacturer Newron Motors has opened bookings for the EV-1 e-bike for a refundable deposit of €2,000 (approximately RM 9,601). The price of the bike is around €60,000 (approximately RM 288,000) and the first batch will be limited to just 12 units. Deliveries are expected to begin in 2021.


































Newron Motors opens EV-1 e-bike bookings | Zigwheels


Newron Motors, the French electric motorcycle manufacturer has opened bookings for the EV-1 e-bike for a refundable deposit of €2,000




www.zigwheels.my


----------



## lawdefender

*GAC New Energy unveils new drive unit that allows cars to accelerate from 0-100 km in less than 2 seconds*










On September 26, GAC New Energy unveiled its dual-motor two speed four in one integrated drive unit for the first time at the Beijing auto show, which allows the vehicle to accelerate from 0-100km in less than two seconds.

The integrated drive unit realizes the deep integration of dual motor, controller, and two-speed reducer.

According to GAC New Energy, the technology has received more than 70 patents, including 29 invention patents.

The integrated drive unit has a power of 340KW, with an integrated drive efficiency of 90 percent, a power increase of 13 percent, a volume reduction of 30 percent, and a weight reduction of 25 percent. The Aion models to be equipped with this new technology will be able to accelerate from 0-100 km in just two seconds.

In terms of intelligent network technology innovation, GAC New Energy is the first in the world to apply the Chinese version of high precision maps. The world's first 5G+V2X in-vehicle intelligent communication system is installed on Aion V, enabling the one-button remote parking function, which supports six-directional automatic parking in horizontal and vertical directions.

GAC New Energy's cumulative sales from January to August exceeded 31,000 units, up 75 percent year-on-year, making it the world's fastest new energy automaker to achieve 100,000 units of cumulative production and sales.









GAC New Energy unveils new drive unit that allows cars to accelerate from 0-100 km in less than 2 seconds - CnTechPost


On September 26, GAC New Energy unveiled its dual motor two speed four in one integrated drive unit for the first time at the Beijing auto show, which allows the vehicle to accelerate from 0-100km in less than two seconds.




cntechpost.com






GAC Enpulse shines in Beijing



















The Enpulse is a sleek two-seater with butterfly doors that has to do without a roof in its shown form, although there is at least a variant with a completely glass roof on paper. The car has sharp-lined LED lighting both at the front and rear and an interior that, like the exterior, is quite minimalist. It’s no surprise that the Enpulse’s workplace is cluttered with displays. Small screens have been placed in the steering wheel, but screens have also been placed on the left side of it, immediately behind it and on the right side. Via augmented reality you could race against a virtual opponent on one of the Chinese circuits.









GAC Enpulse shines in Beijing - Techzle


The conceptual car violence from China has not yet come to an end. This time it is the Chinese manufacturer GAC Group that presents a study model. And what a. This is the Enpulse, a fully electric two-door sports fan. The Enpulse is yet another Chinese concept car where the responsible...




techzle.com


----------



## lawdefender

*GAC showcases Aion LX Fuel Cell 








*

GAC Group has achieved an industry-leading advantage in hydrogen fuel-cell technology through the launch of the Aion LX Fuel Cell. The hydrogen-based vehicle developed on the GEP 2.0 platform is equipped with a hydrogen fuel-cell system independently developed also by GAC Group.

GAC’s hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle has shown to solve several problems of current renewable energy vehicles. Firstly, it only takes 3-5 minutes to recharge each time, which is shorter than the charging time of most electric vehicles. Secondly, the NEDC operating range of this car exceeds 650KM, reaching international benchmarks. Thirdly, the car also solves the problem of ignition and operations in low-temperature weather: at minus 30°C, a one-button cold start can be enabled sans an external heat source without affecting the cruising range. Most importantly, its emissions are only pure water, and the filter element carried can filter 99% of the inhalable particulate matter, not only reducing pollution but also purifying the surrounding air.

The Aion LX Fuel Cell has also been comprehensively upgraded to exceed safety expectations. Built upon the five-star safety of the original model Aion LX, it has also passed difficult safety tests such as 32km/h side column collision and 80km/h rear collision.









GAC showcases scientific depth and technical capabilities in hydrogen fuel-cell technology


GAC Group unveiled its latest scientific and technological achievements at the recent GAC Tech Day 2020, including two major platform technologies and three futuristic technologies.




autocar.com.ph


----------



## lawdefender

*SAIC MAXUS EUNIQ 7 debuts with hydrogen fuel cell system








*


On September 13, SAIC MAXUS’s first passenger car equipped with fuel cell technology, EUNIQ 7, was officially unveiled. It is reported that EUNIQ 7 uses hydrogen as fuel and emits clean water with zero pollution to the environment. The hydrogen storage capacity of the vehicle reaches 6.4kg, which exceeds the hydrogen storage level of international brand products such as Toyota MIRAI and Hyundai NEXO. In addition, EUNIQ 7 also has product performance such as fast filling time, strong low temperature adaptability, high cruising range, and key technical indicators in terms of hydrogen storage, filling time, and low temperature adaptability, reaching the current top level in the global hydrogen fuel vehicle field.

In terms of appearance, EUNIQ 7 is built on the basis of the G20 model. The front face of the new car adopts a multi-banner chrome-plated grille design. The headlights use full LED light sources to show the characteristics of new energy models. As an MPV model, the large front face gives a sense of stability and reliability. The side of the vehicle adopts a suspended window design, and the hydrogen refueling port is located on the right rear of the vehicle. The taillights also use a full LED light source and are connected by a chrome-plated strip. The simple design echoes the front face. In the interior of EUNIQ 7 adopts a symmetrical and concise design style. The details are well dealt with. The materials and workmanship are solid. The three-spoke steering wheel is wrapped in leather. It is also equipped with a 12.3-inch floating LCD central control screen. A sense of technology is added to the interior. In the power section of EUNIQ 7 is equipped with a hydrogen fuel cell system, in which the motor has a maximum power of 150kW (204 horsepower) and can achieve a cold start at -30°C. The official NEDC comprehensive cruising range is 550km. In addition, EUNIQ 7 can complete hydrogenation within 5 minutes.










MAXUS EUNIQ 7 debuts with hydrogen fuel cell system


[Aika Auto New Energy Channel Original] On September 13, SAIC MAXUS’s first passenger car equipped with fuel cell technology, EUNIQ7, officially unveiled




daydaynews.cc


----------



## lawdefender

*Guangzhou's first batch of 15 hydrogen fuel cell buses put into operation*

According to Wu Le, a manager of the technical department of Guangzhou Public Transport Group, hydrogen fuel cell vehicles do not emit carbon dioxide and other pollutants during the driving process, but only emit water. Apart from air, there is no other energy consumption.

The hydrogen fuel cell bus takes only 15 minutes to refuel, has a full-load cruising range of more than 400 kilometers, and energy conversion efficiency as high as 53% to 55%. The first batch of vehicles put into operation is the Kaiwo brand 10.5-meter hydrogen fuel cell city bus. The core components such as the engine system are provided by Guangzhou Xiongtao Hydrogen Technology Co., Ltd.

Wu Le introduced that the vehicle is equipped with a hydrogen leak-proof alarm and a remote real-time monitoring system to form a "double insurance" to make the vehicle safe and controllable. In addition, the operating characteristics of the fuel cell make the vehicle quieter.

According to Zhang Junxian, the head of the operation department of Guangzhou Public Transport Group , the bus drivers are required to use the health testing equipment in the terminal to test body temperature, alcohol, blood pressure, heart rate, blood oxygen and other physical indicators. They will be able to wait until the test results show no abnormalities. Participate in the operation, "If there is an abnormal physical data, the system will remind the driver on the spot and notify the company's operation command center to deal with it to ensure the driver's occupational health and traffic safety."

Zhang Junxian said that the first batch of hydrogen fuel cell buses are equipped with mobile 5G CPE equipment and Beidou satellite positioning devices. Through the 5G network, precise positioning of vehicles and millisecond-level transmission of data such as driving behavior and passenger flow can be achieved. The realization of functions such as safe driving early warning and vehicle status monitoring provides key technical support.









广州首批氢燃料电池公交车投入运营


广州首批氢燃料电池公交车投入运营,氢燃料,公交车,运营,氢能,燃料




auto.163.com









公交车+氢能源！广州市首条氢燃料电池公交车示范线即将投入运营_政务_澎湃新闻-The Paper







www.thepaper.cn


----------



## BenFerro

*TOGG partners with Farasis for li-ion battery production in Turkey*










Turkey's Automobile Joint Venture Group (TOGG), which is producing the country’s first fully indigenous electric car, signed a letter of intent with leading lithium-ion (li-ion) battery producing company Farasis Energy for the production and use of battery cells in the full range of TOGG products, the company said in a press release Tuesday.
According to the agreement, battery cells will be provided by Farasis and the battery modules and packs will be jointly developed and produced in Turkey.
The agreement was signed between the board chairpersons of both companies in Bilişim Vadisi (Informatics Valley) in the northwestern Kocaeli province of Turkey.
TOGG CEO Gürcan Karakaş, commenting on the cooperation, said that the agreement was signed as a result of a large-scale evaluation process initiated in 2018 during which more than 30 global battery suppliers have been evaluated, within the framework of confidentiality agreements (NDAs), including possible domestic collaborations.

“Among them, the company that best met our technical, commercial and strategic criteria and one of the world’s leading li-Ion battery manufacturers, Farasis, has been chosen as our business partner,” he said.


Karakaş noted that it is important to produce this technology, which is considered one of the most important and fundamental technologies for electric vehicles today, within the country with an important player in the sector.

“TOGG's mobility ecosystem will become an important regional player that develops technology and creates serious economic value,” he added.
Li-ion batteries are a fundamental component of an electric car.

In addition to supplying batteries, the two companies will also expand their cooperation through a joint venture company, which is set to combine Farasis technology with the country’s automotive industry leaders, to provide battery energy storage solutions for Turkey and the surrounding region.

Rifat Hisarcıklıoğlu, chairperson of the Union of Chambers and Commodity Exchanges of Turkey (TOBB) – the umbrella organization for the TOGG, said in a statement following the signing ceremony that the joint venture established with Farasis “will be an initiative to increase the efficiency of our country's energy system, reduce our country's dependence on foreign energy, and accelerate our development of a clean and efficient energy system.”

“This cooperation will go beyond producing electric vehicle batteries in Turkey and also improve battery R&D competencies in our country, trigger automotive manufacturers to bring their electric vehicle projects to our country and enhance the energy storage business with nonautomotive energy storage products in Farasis' product portfolio,” the TOGG chairperson also said.
He pointed out that the joint venture will form a basis of very important economic value as a representative of the energy company in the region, adding that the TOGG alone will lead the technological transformation in Turkey while contributing to the country's zero-emission future.

*'TOGG pioneering initiative'*
Farasis co-founder and CEO Yu Wang, who attended the signing ceremony online due to the COVID-19 pandemic, said Turkey is one of the most important automotive markets in the region.
“Partnering with the TOGG as they prepare to manufacture electric vehicles, building on the advanced and accumulated automotive know-how in Turkey, is a natural step we have taken in line with our basic strategies,” he said, noting that they “value Turkey as the next big market for electrification and thus an ideal location along with the TOGG as a greatly innovative partner doing the right work, at the right time, in the right place, to support the ambitious growth plans of our company.”
“We have signed this letter of intent to meet the demands both in Turkey and in the region. We are excited that this cooperation, which started with the supply of batteries, will turn into a long-term partnership,” Wang added.

The energy company’s head of European organization and business, Sebastian Wolf, who had personally taken part in the signing ceremony, noted that from the very beginning of the cooperation talks with the TOGG, they felt that both companies share the same goal of electrifying the future of individual mobility.
“We expect the Turkish automotive and nonautomotive market to face substantial growth in demand for li-ion batteries,” he said, expressing excitement over partnering with the Turkish automotive joint venture.

The agreement foresees a comprehensive business plan for cooperation between the two countries by 2020 end, while the official establishment of the joint venture company is set for the beginning of 2021.

In June 2018, five industrial giants – Anadolu Group, BMC, Kök Group, Turkcell and Zorlu Holding – joined hands with the umbrella organization TOBB to create the TOGG to realize Turkey’s long-term aim of producing a fully Turkish-made automobile, unveiling prototypes on Dec. 27.
The TOGG will produce five different models – an SUV, sedan, C-hatchback, B-SUV and B-MPV – by 2030 and own the intellectual and industrial property rights to each. Mass production of the SUV will begin in 2022, with the sedan to follow.

Farasis Energy Inc., the predecessor of Farasis Energy Ltd. based in China’s Ganzhou, was founded in the U.S. in 2002, gradually extending its business across China and Europe.
The company has a broad portfolio of battery solutions and global customers in different markets.
Farasis is currently one of the largest manufacturers of pouch cells for the BEV market, with multiple global R&D centers and over 4,000 employees. The company has previously started programs with BAIC, one of the leading original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) of China and Daimler (Mercedes-Benz) on a range of electric vehicle battery solutions.









TOGG partners with Farasis for li-ion battery production in Turkey


Turkey's Automobile Joint Venture Group (TOGG), which is producing the country’s first fully indigenous electric car, signed a letter of intent with...




www.dailysabah.com


----------



## mcrsky

In my opinion, an electric car MUST cost the same as a petrol/diesel vehicle. If not, nobody wants to buy it unless you care about the environment. 

There MUST be more than 2 charging stations at supermarkets, petrol stations, car washes or in the local area. At the moment electric vehicles are still exotic. If this is no longer the case, there must be umpteen charging stations on every car park.

There MUST be transparent prices for charging. At petrol stations the prices for fuel are also calculated to the cent. And there MUST be adequate efficient driving performance.

0-100 in 8-9 seconds and a top speed of 140km/h are quite sufficient.

It doesn't need acceleration values like a super sports car that unnecessarily strain the battery.


----------



## verbatim9

Looks like the Australian States of Victoria and South Australia are to bring in distance based tolling for electric vehicles. I think this is premature and they should wait for further uptake of EVs. 

Distance tolling for transport is the way of the future but to impose this measure on EVs while uptake is low can be counter productive.


----------



## RyukyuRhymer

About 150 Cadillac dealers would rather leave the brand than sell EVs


About 150 Cadillac dealers would reportedly rather stop selling the brand entirely than upgrade to sell electric cars.




www.engadget.com


----------



## RyukyuRhymer

https://www.engadget.com/jaguar-will-only-make-electric-cars-starting-in-2025-121436428.html


----------



## Sydney.Darlinghurst.123

Check out this Ted online talk with Elon Musk, it’s very interesting and worth your time (assuming you haven’t already seen it):


----------



## Sydney.Darlinghurst.123

Here is also a video of Elon Musks South Australian battery, I’d also unfortunately imagine that this clip would be hidden from certain voters. Worth a watch:


----------



## lawdefender

*GAC Aion sales up 112% year-over-year to 10,604 units in July*

Dorothy Zheng2021-08-02 19:57:05 (GMT+8)

Sales of GAC Aion, the new energy vehicle brand of GAC Group, rose 112 percent year-over-year to 10,604 units in July, with more than 16,000 units on order, according to data released by the company on Monday.









GAC Aion sales up 112% year-over-year to 10,604 units in July


Individual users accounted for 77 percent of the number of license plate registrations for GAC Aion models from January to June this year, while corporate users accounted for 23 percent, the company said.




cnevpost.com


----------



## lawdefender

*GAC Aion Unveils Super-Fast Charging Technology That Can Go From 0 To 80% In 8 Minutes*

ElectricGAC Aion unveils super-fast charging technology that can go from 0 to...
ByCnEVPost

August 30, 2021










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After many rumors, GAC Aion – the electric vehicle division of _GAC Group_ – has finally unveiled its super-fast charging technology that is comparable to the speed of refueling.


GAC Aion said Monday that its battery can be charged at up to 880V with a maximum charge power of 480 kW.
On the company’s A480 supercharger, vehicles can be charged at a high rate of 6C, adding 200 kilometers of range in five minutes and charging from 0 to 80 percent in eight minutes, it said.

GAC Aion released data showing that the Aion V with 6C charging technology can charge from 30 percent to 80 percent in just 4 minutes and 50 seconds using a supercharger with a peak charging power of 480 kW.









GAC Aion unveils super-fast charging technology that can go from 0 to 80% in 8 minutes - AutoTech News


After many rumors, GAC Aion - the electric vehicle division of GAC Group - has finally unveiled its super-fast charging technology that is comparable to the




autotech.news


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## carloscortes

Electric cars are here to stay. In Colombia, electric cars do not yet have a large market, but little by little they will be positioning themselves. These are the numbers of electric cars in Colombia: Colombia llega a 4.849 vehículos eléctricos y 17.333 híbridos matriculados en el RUNT

▷ Carlos Cortés Agencia | Agencia de publicidad - Carlos Cortés Agencia


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