# The motorway symbol



## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

*Which countries do not use the motorway sign?*

I'm wondering which countries don't use the motorway sign. Of course I'm talking about one of these two signs:  

I know that the United States don't use it, neither does Canada, I believe, plus Australia, if I'm right. Any other countries, which don't use the motorway sign on their motorways?


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## Billpa (Feb 26, 2006)

I think Australia DOES use it, don't they?


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

^ Really? Any photo?


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## Valeroso (Sep 19, 2004)

Australia definitely uses this sign!  I can confirm it.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

^ Wow, that's cool, I haven't seen it yet; I believe you would be nice however, if I saw it.


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## Billpa (Feb 26, 2006)

While a little off from the original poster's question, in Québec, the autoroute number marker uses a more artistic rendition of the motorway symbol:


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

How about China?


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## rilham2new (Oct 28, 2006)

INDONESIA uses the blue one ..


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

Billpa said:


>


I didn't know about this, it's interesting. 



Chris1491 said:


> How about China?


I have a feeling I've already seen it, but now I'm not sure.


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## invincible (Sep 13, 2002)

Billpa said:


> I think Australia DOES use it, don't they?


The text version of the sign is a whole lot more common: START (MOTOR|FREE|TOLL)WAY

It does vary by state though.


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

I think Japan and most South American countries doesn't use that sign(based on the pictures).


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## Moveax (May 18, 2006)

New Zealand uses big green signs that say "Motorway Begins" and "Motorway Ends" at the primary entrances and exits to a motorway, and at onramps smaller signs just saying "Motorway".


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## derek5 (Oct 18, 2006)

Billpa said:


>




reminds me of a freeway down here in SD...


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## Billpa (Feb 26, 2006)

derek5 said:


> reminds me of a freeway down here in SD...



Yeah, the Quebec autoroute shield is very much inspired by the US Interstate shield, no question


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

I'm also wondering by the countries which don't use this sign, how do you know then that you're on a motorway/freeway? In the US for example, you know because signs with destinations are painted green.


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## Billpa (Feb 26, 2006)

Verso said:


> In the US for example, you know because signs with destinations are painted green.


That's actually not the case, all roads in the US use green-backed destination signs.
In many areas of the US, if you're entering a non-Interstate motorway you possibly wouldn't know it's a motorway if you weren't familiar with the area.


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## Naga_Solidus (Mar 29, 2005)

THey have signs that say "Freeway Entrance" on all on-ramps in the USA, so you'd definetly know you're on a freeway.


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## ricu__ (Jan 7, 2007)

Verso said:


> I'm wondering which countries don't use the motorway sign. Of course I'm talking about one of these two signs:
> 
> I know that the United States don't use it, neither does Canada, I believe, plus Australia, if I'm right. Any other countries, which don't use the motorway sign on their motorways?


United kingdom????


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## arzaranh (Apr 23, 2004)

Verso said:


> I'm also wondering by the countries which don't use this sign, how do you know then that you're on a motorway/freeway? In the US for example, you know because signs with destinations are painted green.


that's not true, in arizona the signs are brown and why would anyone need asign to tell them that they are on a freeway? shouldn't the fact that all of the cars speeding by at top speed give you a clue?


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

ricu__ said:


> United kingdom????


No no, the UK definitely uses it, the blue one. 



arzaranh said:


> that's not true, in arizona the signs are brown and why would anyone need asign to tell them that they are on a freeway? shouldn't the fact that all of the cars speeding by at top speed give you a clue?


Well, of course cars are speeding, and the road is multi-lane, but it could be 'just' an expressway or sth like that. In Europe there's many expressways, which could actually be freeways. Btw, there are brown signs on Arizona's freeways??? I didn't know that, brown signs are usually intended for tourist attractions (in Europe).


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## arzaranh (Apr 23, 2004)

Verso said:


> ...
> Well, of course cars are speeding, and the road is multi-lane, but it could be 'just' an expressway or sth like that. In Europe there's many *expressways*, which could actually be *freeways*. Btw, there are brown signs on Arizona's freeways??? I didn't know that, brown signs are usually intended for tourist attractions (in Europe).


what's the difference? in the u.s there are only toll and non toll highways. the non-toll highways are divided into various categories but but the difference between them is more about who pays and maintains them, oh and speed: fast="highway" for long distance drives, and slow="frwy/exprsswy/toll rd/etc." for inter/intra city commutes. i'm pretty sure we don't have motorways, in fact, i don't think i've ever heard of one before.


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## Bartolo (Sep 20, 2004)

Motorway, freeway same thing. Its just like up here (Ontario) we don't refer to the 400 series as a freeway we just call it a highway in many causes.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

arzaranh said:


> what's the difference? in the u.s there are only toll and non toll highways. the non-toll highways are divided into various categories but but the difference between them is more about who pays and maintains them, oh and speed: fast="highway" for long distance drives, and slow="frwy/exprsswy/toll rd/etc." for inter/intra city commutes. i'm pretty sure we don't have motorways, in fact, i don't think i've ever heard of one before.


Ok, fair point, but with the motorway/freeway sign (or "Freeway entrance") you warn people not to go on such road with bycicle, tractor etc. or on foot (I mean, once you're on a freeway, it's too late to turn back), plus you mustn't stop, drive backwards etc.


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## ADCS (Oct 30, 2006)

Verso said:


> Ok, fair point, but with the motorway/freeway sign (or "Freeway entrance") you warn people not to go on such road with bycicle, tractor etc. or on foot (I mean, once you're on a freeway, it's too late to turn back), plus you mustn't stop, drive backwards etc.


Well, freeways are pretty recognizable to start with. Not only that, but many (especially urbanized ones) have "No bicycles" signs. Interstates are all freeway (except in Cheyenne, Wyoming), so that's recognizable. In California and Nevada, there are "Freeway Entrance" signs. In most states, the difference between freeways and expressways is minimal, as the only real difference is side streets that intersect the roadway; major intersections are usually controlled with an interchange. Also, in most states, speed limits are a good way to tell, since most expressways speeds are lower than the freeway speeds. This is not the case in Texas, where one can go 75 mph (120 km/h) on a rural two-lane road.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Bartolo said:


> we just call it a highway in many causes.


Many Europeans think of motorways/interstates as they hear the word "highway" but it can be a one lane road though.


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## FM 2258 (Jan 24, 2004)

Verso said:


> I'm also wondering by the countries which don't use this sign, how do you know then that you're on a motorway/freeway? In the US for example, you know because signs with destinations are painted green.


I guess the best answer I can give is that you just know. Also before a freeway ends there's usually a sign that says "END FREEWAY" and it will give you the miles or feet until it ends. 



















































Naga_Solidus said:


> THey have signs that say "Freeway Entrance" on all on-ramps in the USA, so you'd definetly know you're on a freeway.



I think that's only in California. I've driven from New Mexico through Texas to Vermont and have never seen a "freeway entrance" sign.


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## Gertzy (Sep 7, 2004)

Australia does not use the sign, but we follow the same system as the US where there is the End/Start Freeway/Motorway/Expressway signs, with Freeway/Motorway entrance.

In Queensland, we use the term Motorway for most of our limited access roads, and if the state were to use the sign, it would be the green one.


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## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

Taste the difference :| 

Deutschland (near Hepberg)









California (Sacramento)









I see certain advantages of the German sign over the Californian one:

The distinct shape and colour. Blue colour is related only to the autobahn, so when you see an arrow-shaped blue sign at a great distance, you will already know it will point to the nearest autobahn even though you can't read the text yet. As for the Californian sign, in order to recognise that it points to a highway, you have to get reasonably close to at least spot the route shield. 
Notice how much information is provided on the german sign as opposed to the Californian sign. Why spell out "freeway" and take so much space if you can just draw a compact neat picture?

Here is how I would like to see the Californian sign


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

^ It'd be painted green.


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## aussiescraperman (Apr 5, 2005)

i think every country in the world should adopt the freeway sign. which looks perfect in alex von's first pic.


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## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

aussiescraperman said:


> i think every country in the world should adopt the freeway sign.


I think that every country in the world should adopt the _Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals (1968)_ in the first place  Then all other standards and regulations will follow.


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## Billpa (Feb 26, 2006)

I wouldn't want to see everything the same the world round, but I do like your idea for the Europe-like signage. The arrow-shaped sign certainly gives the motorist, with a lot of visual pollution already entering his brain, a little less to compute as he approaches an intersection.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Bolivia doesn't use it too. They have only 4km of Motorway, with a simple sign that says "Autopista".


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## ADCS (Oct 30, 2006)

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> I think that every country in the world should adopt the _Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals (1968)_ in the first place  Then all other standards and regulations will follow.


Doesn't the Vienna Convention provide for the use of green signage and diamond-shaped signs as well?


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## Alex Von Königsberg (Jan 28, 2007)

ADCS said:


> Doesn't the Vienna Convention provide for the use of green signage and diamond-shaped signs as well?


Yes, it does. What I was reffering to were prohibitive and restrictive signs such as the speed limit, no overtaking, and the motorway sign. 

In the USA, very often I hear an argument that Europe uses standardized signs because of too many countries with different languages while in the USA (Canada), on the other hand, everyone speaks English. Therefore, in America there is no need for pictorial signs. But then, how can they explain why China, Japan, and the majority of South American countries use standardized signs as well? All these countries within their borders consist of monoethnic population that speak the same language, and they have far fewer visitor-drivers than the USA.


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## ADCS (Oct 30, 2006)

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Yes, it does. What I was reffering to were prohibitive and restrictive signs such as the speed limit, no overtaking, and the motorway sign.
> 
> In the USA, very often I hear an argument that Europe uses standardized signs because of too many countries with different languages while in the USA (Canada), on the other hand, everyone speaks English. Therefore, in America there is no need for pictorial signs. But then, how can they explain why China, Japan, and the majority of South American countries use standardized signs as well? All these countries within their borders consist of monoethnic population that speak the same language, and they have far fewer visitor-drivers than the USA.


Well, I think most would dispute China being a monoethnic and monolingual nation, since most dialects would be considered languages in their own right in most places in the world. Japan is, that's for sure, and there are significant numbers of South Americans who speak indigenous languages.

There's no disputing that pictorial signs are generally better for relaying information more quickly than text-based signs. Most states in the US use pictorial signs when possible. California tends to lag behind in signage standards.

Also, on the speed limit sign, in many states it would be completely inappropriate for it to be posted as a prohibitory sign (which the red circle indicates, and how it is defined in most European countries), since legally the speed limit is a regulatory measure, that is, it is not specifically illegal to go over the limit, but it is a violation of the regulations of safe driving in most circumstances (confusing, yes, I know). 

I guess my question is, why should the US/Canada/Mexico have a specific "freeway/expressway entrance" sign, or use the international sign? What disadvantage is there to it not being posted, especially since we tend to follow routes based on their number, as opposed to their destinations? If one's directions say "Go on Highway 101," does it matter if 101 is a freeway or a divided highway, or a two-lane road? People generally know not to walk on the freeway, or ride bikes on there (since they would be run over immediately).


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## FM 2258 (Jan 24, 2004)

Alex Von Königsberg said:


> Taste the difference :|
> 
> Deutschland (near Hepberg)
> 
> ...



I think the way signs are posted in the U.S. are fine. I don't think we need so much information on the sign. Just knowing the highway number is enough because in the U.S. the highway is almost like a destination itself. 


Here the driver already knows where F.M. 791 and F.M. 3006 take you. 



















Here they'll give you a little more help but there's no point in listing all the towns that these highways cross. Just a little bit at a time.


















In this last picture there are at least 2 significant cities before you get to Austin but to lessen the confusion and clutter up the sign they tell you the next BIG city and if you don't know the rest then buy a map or have someone tell you. Getting around the United States is easy in my opinion. If I went any other country I'd probably be overloaded with highway information. Just give me the highway number and I'll be set.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

FM 2258 said:


> Here the driver already knows where F.M. 791 and F.M. 3006 take you.


That's a wrong point of view. Signage is ment for those who are unknown to the area.


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

^^ I agree, Americans IMO put too much stress to road numbers. People (usually) don't drive on a particular road because of the road itself, but because of a destination the road takes you to. Why would I have to look at map and remember bunch of road numbers, when you have cities/towns/villages written on signs? For example, I know numbers of the most important roads in my country, but if I choose to go to some village, no way I'll remember all those road numbers which take me to the village.



ADCS said:


> If one's directions say "Go on Highway 101," does it matter if 101 is a freeway or a divided highway, or a two-lane road?


Of course it matters; if you choose a freeway, you'll come to your destination much sooner than if you choose a 2-lane road (1 lane each direction).


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## ADCS (Oct 30, 2006)

Verso said:


> Of course it matters; if you choose a freeway, you'll come to your destination much sooner than if you choose a 2-lane road (1 lane each direction).


Americans and Europeans think about road signage in fundamentally different ways, I think. Destination markers on signs are more for confirmation of the right direction rather than pointing where one should go in the US. Most highways have "North" or "South", "East" or "West" on their signs. If I'm lost, I'll ask for directions from someone, who will usually tell me to find a certain highway number and go a certain cardinal direction. 

There often isn't a choice between taking a freeway or taking a two-lane road here (a large part of that being because the Interstate Highway System is mostly free roads); if told to go one way, that usually is the only/fastest route. Not only that, if there are parallel routes, the faster route is usually marked with the major city, while the slower, more "scenic" route is marked with the smaller towns on the way.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

It's not just a symbol to denote which road is a motorway. It does a little more than that, it also represents the speed limit, banning of slow and unmotorized traffic and even priority. These regulations however, may differ from country to country. For example Belgium is still showing signs at each entrance that you have to give way to motorway traffic and you cannot turn right at the entrance ramp (against traffic). Others do not always have these signs, for example the Netherlands does not have such signs, the motorway symbol alone represents these rules. In Denmark, traffic entering the motorway has priority over traffic already on the motorway (which I think is a rare rule in Europe).


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## Spikespiegel (Jul 13, 2009)

ChrisZwolle said:


> In Denmark, traffic entering the motorway has priority over traffic already on the motorway (which I think is a rare rule in Europe).


That's not true 
In Denmark we use two rules for lane merging:
1) Lane changing, in which case one lane will have priority over the other
2) Merging, in which case both lanes must show mutual respect for one another and try to help each other. On most motorway rams, the merge-rule is used (There are a few where the ramp must yield for traffic already on the motorway).

However, Danes are very helpful when allowing other motorists onto the motorway (slow down, and make room in front of you for the traffic coming from the ramp, or change to the second lane), that I don't blame if most foreigners believe that the people on the ramp has priority


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

^^ Then I don't see much difference in the Danish approach as seen elsewhere in Europe. Whether it's in France, Germany, Switzerland or the Netherlands, people will most likely move over if traffic allows to let anybody enter the motorway. 

The Danish merge signs at on-ramps are one-of-a-kind in Europe though.


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

ChrisZwolle said:


> It's not just a symbol to denote which road is a motorway. It does a little more than that, it also represents the speed limit, banning of slow and unmotorized traffic and even priority. These regulations however, may differ from country to country. For example Belgium is still showing signs at each entrance that you have to give way to motorway traffic and you cannot turn right at the entrance ramp (against traffic). Others do not always have these signs, for example the Netherlands does not have such signs, the motorway symbol alone represents these rules. In Denmark, traffic entering the motorway has priority over traffic already on the motorway (which I think is a rare rule in Europe).


So the US equivalent would be this sort of thing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Freewayentrancesign-minnesota.jpg


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## FM 2258 (Jan 24, 2004)

Penn's Woods said:


> So the US equivalent would be this sort of thing:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Freewayentrancesign-minnesota.jpg


I used to wonder why when looking at pictures why the sign was ever needed until I drove in California and the sign actually helped me....haha.


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## SuperSergei (Jun 8, 2009)

ChrisZwolle said:


> Whether it's in France, Germany, Switzerland or the Netherlands, people will most likely move over if traffic allows to let anybody enter the motorway.
> 
> .


In Norway many people don`t seem to understand this.


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## Fargo Wolf (Oct 23, 2009)

The Motorway sign isn't used in British Columbia either. Instead, a large, green sign, with white letters saying: FREEWAY BEGINS is used. In the province of Alberta, It's a large yellow sign with black letters that says DIVIDED HIGHWAY AHEAD followed by a second sign: DIVIDED HIGHWAY BEGINS for any divided highway, including motorways.


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## Haljackey (Feb 14, 2008)

Fargo Wolf said:


> The Motorway sign isn't used in British Columbia either. Instead, a large, green sign, with white letters saying: FREEWAY BEGINS is used. In the province of Alberta, It's a large yellow sign with black letters that says DIVIDED HIGHWAY AHEAD followed by a second sign: DIVIDED HIGHWAY BEGINS for any divided highway, including motorways.


We don't have a sign for it in Canada, but I wished we did!


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## Gareth (Apr 27, 2004)

The sign varies slightly throughout Europe too...


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## Gareth (Apr 27, 2004)

The Singapore version is interesting...


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## TheCat (Apr 21, 2006)

Haljackey said:


> We don't have a sign for it in Canada, but I wished we did!





Fargo Wolf said:


> The Motorway sign isn't used in British Columbia either. Instead, a large, green sign, with white letters saying: FREEWAY BEGINS is used. In the province of Alberta, It's a large yellow sign with black letters that says DIVIDED HIGHWAY AHEAD followed by a second sign: DIVIDED HIGHWAY BEGINS for any divided highway, including motorways.


Heh yeah, except that in Ontario we don't have any sign at all usually (not even something that says "freeway begins"). I guess following a sign to a 400-series highway automatically implies that it is a freeway, even though there are some non-400-series highways that are freeways.

But I agree, our signage can be improved in many respects.


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## Interstate275Fla (Dec 1, 2009)

While the motorway symbol may be universal throughout most of the world, here in the USA we don't use this symbol to mark the beginning or end of our interstate highways.

However, marking of the beginning or end of interstate highways in the USA including that of interchanges is decided by the individual USA state following MUTCD guidelines. In California, the beginnings of their interstate highways (called freeways) have a green sign that says FREEWAY ENTRANCE on the top and the route marker/cardinal direction on the bottom, such as Interstate 5 south.

Here in Florida, it's a different story. The only signage you will see when you enter an interstate highway in the State of Florida is like this:










As you will see, this is Interstate 175 in St. Petersburg, Florida looking west towards Interstate 275. This signage is standard at every entrance to any interstate or other limited access highway in the State of Florida. As the sign states, pedestrians, bicycles, and motor vehicles with less than 5 brake horsepower are prohibited per Sections 316.091 and 316.130(18) of the Florida Statutes.


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## Uppsala (Feb 26, 2010)

Gareth said:


> The sign varies slightly throughout Europe too...


Yes, but not more than they are easy to understand when you cross a border. And it is the same symbol but in a little bit different styles. 

This picture has motorway signs from Germany, France, Switzerland, the UK, Austria and Spain.

Spain is funny. They have the normal motorway signs only at autopistas and that's motorway with toll. The other motorways are called autovía and have special signs, and those signs are unique for Spain. Why don't they have the standard motorway sign but maybe in different colours like they have in Italy? In Italy it's blue signs for free motorways (superstrada) and green signs for motorways with toll (autostrada). But both of the signs are normal motorway signs and not a homemade sign like they have in Spain.


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## michael_siberia (Jul 9, 2009)

Polish motorway entrance symbol:


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## dizee (Apr 3, 2006)

Ah, the good old "chopsticks" sign. 

Ireland also has quite redundant "Motorway ahead" signs like this.


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## Interstate275Fla (Dec 1, 2009)

dizee said:


> Ah, the good old "chopsticks" sign.
> 
> Ireland also has quite redundant "Motorway ahead" signs like this.


I apologize for being a little off topic, but I saw the motorway ahead sign from Ireland on Wikipedia and I noticed several restrictions, similar to our restrictions on Florida's interstate highways. On the top line it says, "NO L drivers". Does L drivers mean those holding a learner's license? The reason I ask is that here in Florida even a driver holding a learner's permit may drive on our interstate highways as long as the driver is complying with the restrictions on the license such as having an adult driver 21 or over in the right front seat among other things.


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## Bartolo (Sep 20, 2004)

Interstate275Fla said:


> I apologize for being a little off topic, but I saw the motorway ahead sign from Ireland on Wikipedia and I noticed several restrictions, similar to our restrictions on Florida's interstate highways. On the top line it says, "NO L drivers". Does L drivers mean those holding a learner's license? The reason I ask is that here in Florida even a driver holding a learner's permit may drive on our interstate highways as long as the driver is complying with the restrictions on the license such as having an adult driver 21 or over in the right front seat among other things.


In Ontario a person with a G1 (learners permit) is not allowed to drive on divided highways unless it is with a drivers ed instructor.


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## Fargo Wolf (Oct 23, 2009)

Interstate275Fla said:


> I apologize for being a little off topic, but I saw the motorway ahead sign from Ireland on Wikipedia and I noticed several restrictions, similar to our restrictions on Florida's interstate highways. On the top line it says, "NO L drivers". Does L drivers mean those holding a learner's license? The reason I ask is that here in Florida even a driver holding a learner's permit may drive on our interstate highways as long as the driver is complying with the restrictions on the license such as having an adult driver 21 or over in the right front seat among other things.





Bartolo said:


> In Ontario a person with a G1 (learners permit) is not allowed to drive on divided highways unless it is with a drivers ed instructor.


The regulations in Europe are a lot more stringent in regards to Learner Drivers. As you correctly guessed, "No L Drivers", means no learner drivers on the motorway.
Bartolo:
G1= N "Novice Driver"
G2= L "Learner Driver"
I think that's how the Ontario system translates to the European designation. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong.


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## essendon bombers (Apr 27, 2008)

In Victoria, Australia we don't use the formal European motorway signs, our signs are:

for freeway, white letter on green background, FREEWAY STARTS and END FREEWAY

for tollway, yellow letter on blue background, TOLLWAY STARTS and TOLLWAY ENDS

In NSW, however, I have seen the green version of the motorway sign, but not regularly on their freeways I've been on.


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## juanico (Sep 30, 2005)

France uses the following signs:

_Autoroute_ entrance / exit





Expressway entrance / exit





As Chris said both signs imply more than the status of the road, but also the regulations that come with (no peds, no bikes, no cycles under 50cc, speed limit etc.)


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## 54°26′S 3°24′E (Oct 26, 2007)

Uppsala said:


> How old is the motorway symbol? And what country was the first to use it?


Does not seem like anyone knows the answer....


ChrisZwolle said:


> ^^ Then I don't see much difference in the Danish approach as seen elsewhere in Europe. Whether it's in France, Germany, Switzerland or the Netherlands, people will most likely move over if traffic allows to let anybody enter the motorway.
> 
> The Danish merge signs at on-ramps are one-of-a-kind in Europe though.


The signs are perhaps one-of-a-kind (like many other Danish signs), but we have the exact same rule in Norway. Examples of Norwegian signs used for lane merging:








It should noted that in dense traffic, the main rule when lanes are merging is that every second car should come from each lane.

Example of signs used when cars from one of the lanes (the black) has the right of way over a lane that ends (red). This is the rule applied in most of Europe when a lane ends:











SuperSergei said:


> In Norway many people don`t seem to understand this.


Having driven in most developed countries around the world, I think things are working fairly well in Norway. However, people tend to be not very helpful to other cars if they think they are trying to bend the rules (typical during the rush hour).


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## Bartolo (Sep 20, 2004)

Fargo Wolf said:


> The regulations in Europe are a lot more stringent in regards to Learner Drivers. As you correctly guessed, "No L Drivers", means no learner drivers on the motorway.
> Bartolo:
> G1= N "Novice Driver"
> G2= L "Learner Driver"
> I think that's how the Ontario system translates to the European designation. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong.


G1 I think would be Learner and then G2 would be Novice. Novice drivers being allowed on motorways.

The way the system is here is, G1 then G2 then G


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## Fargo Wolf (Oct 23, 2009)

In Europe, the letter designations are reversed (At least in the UK they are) to what they are here. They start off with the N decal, before graduating to the L decal. In Canada, BC for example, a new driver would get the L decal, THEN the N decal.


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## dizee (Apr 3, 2006)

Interstate275Fla said:


> I apologize for being a little off topic, but I saw the motorway ahead sign from Ireland on Wikipedia and I noticed several restrictions, similar to our restrictions on Florida's interstate highways. On the top line it says, "NO L drivers". Does L drivers mean those holding a learner's license? The reason I ask is that here in Florida even a driver holding a learner's permit may drive on our interstate highways as long as the driver is complying with the restrictions on the license such as having an adult driver 21 or over in the right front seat among other things.


Yeah the "L drivers" are learners, recognisable by the big red "L" stickers they have to have on their car. 

In _theory_ they are forbidden from motorways, but it's not very well enforced and many people just drive on them anyway. hno:


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## Gareth (Apr 27, 2004)

Fargo Wolf said:


> In Europe, the letter designations are reversed (At least in the UK they are) to what they are here. They start off with the N decal, before graduating to the L decal. In Canada, BC for example, a new driver would get the L decal, THEN the N decal.


Hmm, I'm pretty sure we just have 'L' for 'learner'. I've never seen 'N' before.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Fargo Wolf said:


> The regulations in Europe are a lot more stringent in regards to Learner Drivers.


It varies by country. For example, once you've passed your driving exam in the Netherlands at age 18, you'll get a full license immediately with no restrictions whatsoever. You're only allowed to have a lower alcohol percentile in your blood.


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## mubd (Oct 14, 2009)

Australia Freeway/motorway symbol signs
M2 Motorway








F6 Freeway








A very old end freeway sign, used before the motorway symbol. The freeway routes (F_) are no longer used:


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## jakup (May 30, 2008)

michael_siberia said:


> Polish motorway entrance symbol:


I believe you took the sign from Wikipedia, however, it's wrong. The real Polish motorway symbol looks like this:


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## Schule04 (May 10, 2009)

Hungary:


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## Uppsala (Feb 26, 2010)

jakup said:


> I believe you took the sign from Wikipedia, however, it's wrong. The real Polish motorway symbol looks like this:


Yes, that’s right! The Wikipedia version is wrong. I had never seen the Wikipedia version at a real motorway in Poland. All of the polish motorway sign look like this instead. I hope the made the real one in Wikipedia one day.

I think the Wikipedia version must be a Czech motorway sign they had change the colour a little bit and the made it wider. Not a good work. To many think now they really look like the Wikipedia version.


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## mapman:cz (Jan 14, 2007)

Uppsala said:


> I think the Wikipedia version must be a Czech motorway sign they had change the colour a little bit and the made it wider. Not a good work. To many think now they really look like the Wikipedia version.


Could be, the czech one looks like this (the lower table states that you don't need a sticker to drive on):








Real photo:


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## hetfield85 (Jun 18, 2005)

Malaysia expressway logo :


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## Uppsala (Feb 26, 2010)

hetfield85 said:


> Malaysia expressway logo :


But this is from Switzerland.


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## hetfield85 (Jun 18, 2005)

Uppsala said:


> But this is from Switzerland.


I couldn't find the pic of Malaysian expressway highway symbol but ours is quite similar to the Swiss motorway symbol..but I hope the pic below can show u our expressway symbol.


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## Spikespiegel (Jul 13, 2009)

juanico said:


>


The exit ramp itself doesn't count as being motorway? :O

Here, the exit ramp counts as being part of the motorway, because we want people to keep their speed (110/130 km/h) until they have entered the off ramp. I could imagine that in France, people would brake on the motorway itself in order to abide the low speed limit on the off ramp.


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## RKC (Jun 16, 2007)

no, cause before the sign there's efficient lenght of off-ramp/lane to slow down. (anyway i dont think in Europe we care so much about keeping speed limits that precisely) I mean you have enough to slow down from 130 to about 60 km/h untill wherever the offramp leads)


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## RKC (Jun 16, 2007)




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## MAG (Sep 24, 2004)

mapman:cz said:


> Could be, the czech one looks like this ...
> Real photo:


All right, for 10 points mapman - why is the background blue and not green?



.


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## lucaf1 (Jun 17, 2007)

Hungary










(c) http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Díjas_Autópálya_tábla.JPG


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## mapman:cz (Jan 14, 2007)

MAG said:


> All right, for 10 points mapman - why is the background blue and not green?
> 
> 
> 
> .


Hah, great question! We discussed this topic with a competent person at the czech motorway directorate and he found nothing wrong about it  When I told him that CZ and SK are the only countries throughout Europe where the color of this sign and background colour of signs on motorways does not correspond, he just replied "so what? is it any issue?"

In 1980's signs on motorways were blue, in early 90's the background colour was changed, but somebody forgot about this particular one - and now it's stuck at this point.

But we are trying to change that, the pace is slow but I believe it will happen, just as "Drogowskaz Classic"


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

Slagathor said:


> I noticed these in California and I quite like them, I think the European ones are rather dull (I like words ):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It varies (don't know about Texas and New York specifically, but it varies from state to state). In Pennsylvania, you just get a "Passenger Vehicles Only" at on-ramps, and at points where a road you're on upgrades to expressway/freeway. In New Jersey, at entrances to the Garden State Parkway, you'll see signs with the Parkway logo and restrictions - "NO commercial vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians...." and also "Toll Road" except on the stretches that are free.

As far as a website, a month or two back - on this thread, I think - I posted an American example. It wasn't easy to find, and I don't remember where I finally found it. So, the short answer is I didn't come across a site showing examples of freeway-entrance signage from all states. They may not be as significant here as they are in Europe (where seeing the motorway symbol tells you things like "the speed limit from this point is X"). But I suppose you could research each state individually and come up with most of them....


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Libya:


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

Penn's Woods said:


> In New Jersey, at entrances to the Garden State Parkway, you'll see signs with the Parkway logo and restrictions - "NO commercial vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians...." and also "Toll Road" except on the stretches that are free.


Virginia also just lists a bunch of forbidden vehicles on the interstates.

"Except on the stretches that are free"??? What the hell?! If "free roads" are the EXCEPTION then i'll probably never bother driving through New Jersey. There is ONE toll road in Virginia with ONE toll booth and thankfully it's nowhere near any place I drive very often. :bash:


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

nerdly_dood said:


> Virginia also just lists a bunch of forbidden vehicles on the interstates.
> 
> "Except on the stretches that are free"??? What the hell?! If "free roads" are the EXCEPTION then i'll probably never bother driving through New Jersey. There is ONE toll road in Virginia with ONE toll booth and thankfully it's nowhere near any place I drive very often. :bash:


Except on the stretches OF THE GARDEN STATE PARKWAY that were built before a toll-road authority was created to finish it. Sheesh.
But speaking as a native New Jerseyan, you're perfectly welcome to stay out of the state. In fact, y'all can even commit treason en masse again if you so desire. I'm guessing this time, no one will shed any blood to keep you. 

EDIT: And also, aren't there two toll roads in Virginia? 267 and the Greenway? (Granted, they line up....) If memory serves, they're not cheap. And I'm old enough to have paid tolls on the Richmond-Petersburg Turnpike and the Virginia Beach Expressway. In fact, aren't there quite a few, albeit short, toll roads in the Richmond area?

EDIT 2: For your perusal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Toll_roads_in_Virginia


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

Oh yeah, forgot about the Dulles toll road... And the bridges... Jeez, I oughta get around more!

And for the record, the toll at the only one which I'd thought of earlier is a dollar per motorcycle, two dollars per car, and $1 per axle on larger vehicles. How does that compare to NJ tolls?

And as for repeated secession, um, doubtful. Things would have to be a lot worse than they are now for that to happen again. Take a quick look at my avatar and then back on topic!


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

nerdly_dood said:


> Oh yeah, forgot about the Dulles toll road... And the bridges... Jeez, I oughta get around more!
> 
> And for the record, the toll at the only one which I'd thought of earlier is a dollar per motorcycle, two dollars per car, and $1 per axle on larger vehicles. How does that compare to NJ tolls?
> 
> And as for repeated secession, um, doubtful. Things would have to be a lot worse than they are now for that to happen again. Take a quick look at my avatar and then back on topic!


Which road were you thinking of? I assumed you meant 267. (Since you're apparently in Arlington?) I'm toll-averse myself, but what can you do....

The Garden State Parkway is a bit over 170 miles long. The oldest 20 miles were built by the state in the late 40s and remain unnumbered state highways. The rest was* built and run by the New Jersey Highway Authority. There are barriers every 15 or 20 miles, where when I was first driving (late 80s/early 90s) you paid 25 cents. Presumably higher now. There are also ramp tolls (which used to be 25 cents or less), placed at certain on- and off-ramps so that if you'd miss a barrier you'd have to pay.

The New Jersey Turnpike is a toll road of the ticketed type - take a ticket when you enter and when you pay turn it in with the toll for the distance you traveled. (If you're paying cash - E-ZPass is used too.) The ticket tells you what the rate is to each exit from the point you entered, and tells the attendant at your exit where you got on (and the rate). Might be 130 miles, including extensions. As a very rough guess, I'd imagine it's something short of $10 to travel the whole thing.

The Atlantic City Expressway is a toll road about 40 miles long, connecting Atlantic City (obviously) to the Philadelphia suburbs. I've hardly ever been on it, but there's a barrier halfway along that Philadelphia traffic reports used to refer to as the "two-dollar toll." I think it may be $3.00 now. There may be ramp tolls for people who'll miss the barrier.

All New-Jersey-to-New-York bridges and tunnels are tolled, and expensive. Most bridges across the Delaware (to Pennsylvania or Delaware) are tolled, but you get north of Trenton and the river narrows; some bridges up there (mostly on back roads but including the one on I-95, until they rebuild it) are free.

Toll roads (as you must know, but others may not) are common in the Northeast and as far west as the Chicago area, mostly because those states were starting to build expressways/freeways before the Interstate funding became available.

But most Interstate mileage in New Jersey is in fact free.  I-295 even runs parallel to the Turnpike - so close you can see one from the other in places - for more than 50 miles. I rarely need to use toll roads. For expensive tolls, the Pennsylvania Turnpike will cost you $25 or more end to end....

*I _think_ all three New Jersey toll roads - which used to be run by separate authorities - are under the Turnpike Authority now. Don't have time to verify this information now.

I've seen your avatar, and your signature. "Yankees and foreigners," indeed.


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

I haven't been living in Arlington very long - I just moved here from Roanoke on June 1 -so I don't know my way around the DC area very well, except by tube - I can get around well enough with the metro, but not on roads.

But it's good to hear that there are only 3 main toll roads in NJ... 

I would love to change my avatar back to what it used to be but I can't find it right now. Expect it to change sometime this evening. That was mostly a 4th celebration thing.


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

Penn's Woods said:


> WThe New Jersey Turnpike is a toll road of the ticketed type - take a ticket when you enter and when you pay turn it in with the toll for the distance you traveled. (If you're paying cash - E-ZPass is used too.) The ticket tells you what the rate is to each exit from the point you entered, and tells the attendant at your exit where you got on (and the rate). Might be 130 miles, including extensions. As a very rough guess, I'd imagine it's something short of $10 to travel the whole thing.


Having recently escaped from Roanoke, I'm now mobile enough that I've now discovered that many parking garages use a similar system to that - push a button to get a ticket when you enter, go do your thing, and then cough up when you leave. I typically set the dollar ($1 for up to 3 hours parking) aside when I park and then have it ready and isolated with the ticket when I leave the garage.


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## brewerfan386 (Apr 24, 2009)

Here is Wisconsin's Freeway entrance sign:








Found at the beginning of all limited access freeway entrance ramps.


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## seem (Jun 15, 2008)

*Slovakia*


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

brewerfan386 said:


> Here is Wisconsin's Freeway entrance sign:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a lot of text :nuts: Why not replace it with: Motorway entrance. And people should learn in there theoratical exam that motorway way means all the things the sign says ...

I mean the European signs are so simple an yet everyone knows what it means and what are the rules...


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

^^ No L-drivers? Meaning that continental cars were not allowed?


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## keber (Nov 8, 2006)

> L-driver
> 
> 
> L-driv·er (plural L-driv·ers)
> ...


http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_561510778/L-driver.html


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## g.spinoza (Jul 21, 2010)

^^I didn't know that. I assumed it was something like left-side drivers...


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

joshsam said:


> That's a lot of text :nuts: Why not replace it with: Motorway entrance. And people should learn in there theoratical exam that motorway way means all the things the sign says ...
> 
> I mean the European signs are so simple an yet everyone knows what it means and what are the rules...


Well, it wouldn't be "motorway" here.... ;-)

Garden State Parkway signs say all that in symbols (figure of a pedestrian in a red circle with a line across it, that sort of thing).

And most of those restrictions don't apply to drivers anyway.


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

g.spinoza said:


> ^^I didn't know that. I assumed it was something like left-side drivers...


Or drivers from Luxembourg!


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

Maxx☢Power;71793307 said:


> An old UK entrance sign:
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5405255902/ (sharing is disabled by the owner)
> 
> Does anyone know what the little symbol next to "Motorway" is? Is it an older/different version of the motorway symbol?


Do you know how old that sign is?


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

The motorway/freeway symbol is rare in Australia.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

There are some interesting pictures there!


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

joshsam said:


> That's a lot of text :nuts: Why not replace it with: Motorway entrance. And people should learn in there theoratical exam that motorway way means all the things the sign says ...
> 
> I mean the European signs are so simple an yet everyone knows what it means and what are the rules...


What that sign communicates to me is "Hey, idiot, you are currently driving on a divided limited-access highway. You are not expected to notice that yourself."


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## Verso (Jun 5, 2006)

nerdly_dood said:


> What that sign communicates to me is "Hey, idiot, you are currently driving on a divided limited-access highway. You are not expected to notice that yourself."


Lol. So how are American signs saying "START FREEWAY" any different? (other than not being as perceivable)


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## Gareth (Apr 27, 2004)

Maxx☢Power;71793307 said:


> An old UK entrance sign:
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5405255902/ (sharing is disabled by the owner)
> 
> Does anyone know what the little symbol next to "Motorway" is? Is it an older/different version of the motorway symbol?


They were the very first generation of motorway signs in this country. They came into being when the first bit of motorway was built in 1958 (Preston Bypass).

The symbol you refer to is the original motorway symbol used in the UK...










It never lasted long and was replaced in 1965, when the whole UK signage system was given an overhaul. Not sure if the chopsticks sign arrived at the same time. Looking at an example from a book in 1966, the start of motorway sign seems to just be that list of regulations but without any symbol.


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## Gareth (Apr 27, 2004)

Maxx☢Power;71851559 said:


> ^^ Thanks. I quite like the symbol, though it's a little less obvious what it means than the one in use now, being a little more abstract. But I guess, like any other sign, you just have to be told once and then you'd always know hat it means.


I have a weird soft spot for it as well. There's just something weirdly pleasing about it, but as you say, it's not as indicative as the chopsticks sign and I wouldn't want to revert back to it. I'm a fan of the chopsticks sign anyway, especially the german version.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

nerdly_dood said:


> What that sign communicates to me is "Hey, idiot, you are currently driving on a divided limited-access highway. You are not expected to notice that yourself."


There are limited access highways that are not motorways, and thus will have different regulations.


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

DanielFigFoz said:


> There are limited access highways that are not motorways, and thus will have different regulations.


There are? Are we talking Ax(M)-class roads or things like the A12?


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Wait, actually there aren't many, I got confused with at/off grade. 

Although in Mainland Europe it is possible with expressways.


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

DanielFigFoz said:


> Wait, actually there aren't many, I got confused with at/off grade.
> 
> Although in Mainland Europe it is possible with expressways.


I know there's a distinction between Autopista and Autovía - with two versions of the symbol - in Spain.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about expressways;



















^^ Portuguese expressway sign, and any limited access road sign










Spanish Autopistas and Autovías have little to no differences these days, and are both motorways.


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Seoul Ring Road (Expressway 100):


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## alserrod (Dec 27, 2007)

At Spain the symbol is the same. 
Sometimes it appears the name of the motorway. Some of them have a name or just the two town they connect.


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## tompaw (Mar 14, 2007)

DanielFigFoz said:


> Spanish Autopistas and Autovías have little to no differences these days, and are both motorways.


Based on the last few weeks I've been spending in Costa del Sol, I disagree. AP-7 is WAY faster than A-7. On the autopista we're sometimes doing 160-180 in a group of cars and it feels perfectly safe. On A-7 that would be:

a) way too dangerous as it goes through urban areas and has plenty of exits,
b) impossible, as on this autovia left lane is generally considered a "drive" lane, while right is the "join/exit" one.

BTW - My VISA card doesn't work at Spanish toll booths!


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

A-7 is also probably the worst example, especially in the Malaga area...


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## alserrod (Dec 27, 2007)

About AP-7 and A-7 (and other cases)

At Spain, AP-X means "toll motorway" (AP = Autopista de peaje) and A means free motorway or highway (restricted too at 120 km/h and sometimes it can be an old toll motorway now free, or a motorway similar to the toll ones but free)

Free motorways have always more traffic. Should you make a punctual trip, it is possible you use the toll one, but people who uses every day, if they can save a lot of money every month, they will prefer to go slowly or carefully and avoid the toll.

A-7 on the South it is not considered as one of the best motorways (there is a thread about that).

And... there are radars to ckeck the speed. Sometimes fixed, sometimes located on some cars that are driven paralel to you...

At Spain there is a "driving licence with points", similar to other countries. 12 is the average and...

should you are taken driving 161 km/h on motorways means 2 points and 400 euro penalty.

should you are taken driving 181 km/h means 6 points less and 600 euro penalty and... driving licence direct goes to a judge!!!!. You can get in prison in that moment.

If three years with no infractions, 2 points are added (this system has 5 years old and I have 14 points... the 12 when beginning and 2 more given two years ago, next year more points if no more infractions).
If someones looses all points it is similar as if he looses his driving licence. Administration is different but... he has to get a new driving licence (new exam, taxes, etc... apart that he must wait sometimes with no driving licence before starting to request a new one).

This is always in order to separate drivers who make infractions from the road.

I do not want to tell countries (just I say that abroad from Europe) but... there are citizen from some countries who are not responsible about ... having a driving licence is mandatory before getting a car!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Should you get a car with no driving licence (and this means, you have never got it, it is retired for a period, it has been down because points lost or just... you hade to update it after 10 years and forgot to make) is a delit and you can go to jail inmediately if driving without it.


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## alserrod (Dec 27, 2007)

Another thing important to all people who wants to visit this country on summer.

Should you have your residence out of Spain and you are taken on an infraction, police is allowed to require to pay just then the penalty (and later you can claim as any other citizen). Should you are foreing but your identity card signals a legal residence at Spain there is no problem here.

A lot of years ago, I had a person on my family working in a bank of a little town near a main road. One day two polices entered the bank with a foreign driver.
The story was that driver had a very important infraction in speed. He was stopped, they gave him the paper and require the ammount of infraction. He said "I do not understand..." (most of tourists assume that will be attended in their language, even which one... but police is not required to learn foreing languages... and should someone speaks it, he will not be on a not tourist zone like that). Police pointed the ammount and he took foreing banks notes (Euro hasn't appear yet) and said he had no pesetas. They said... no problem... they took him (rest of passengers kept on the car in the roaad) to the nearest bank, they requested the person I know to change those foreing bank notes to pesetas and he pay the penalty just them.
I do not know if the driver learned any new word... but sure he will respect all traffic signals.
And the person I know, obviously had no problem to change foreing bank notes but the official change rate and bank commision (driver had to give thanks because banks requires less commisions thant other currency bussiness...)


This way to act keeps on today. Obviously, if you have Euro bank notes, no need to go to change on a bank...
... but if you live abroad from Spain, police is allowed to require you to pay just then or... inmobilizing vehicle!!!!!


P.S. If paying in the act, there is a discount of 50%, but I will request anyone to be prudent, to respect signals and avoid accidents.

Accidents at Spain are decreasing every year thanks to more polices on the road and some other administrative actions (after driving licence with point, it became to decrease suddenly).


NOWADAYS AT SPAIN, ROAD ACCIDENTS IS THE MAIN REASON OF DEATH.

I suggest caution on the road.


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## tompaw (Mar 14, 2007)

I've never seen a police car on toll parts of AP-7 in Costa del Sol.

If everyone respected the 120 speed limit, what would be the point of using the toll road? Parallel A-7 lets you go 100-120 for most of the time, so you wouldn't gain much. The autopista is pretty much empty anyway, for 4 weeks I've never seen a queue at the toll plazas. Put some police cars there enforcing the 120 speed limit, and it's dead.


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## alserrod (Dec 27, 2007)

tompaw said:


> I've never seen a police car on toll parts of AP-7 in Costa del Sol.
> 
> If everyone respected the 120 speed limit, what would be the point of using the toll road? Parallel A-7 lets you go 100-120 for most of the time, so you wouldn't gain much. The autopista is pretty much empty anyway, for 4 weeks I've never seen a queue at the toll plazas. Put some police cars there enforcing the 120 speed limit, and it's dead.


let me answer you at speed limits thread...

(avoiding off topics)


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## roofromoz (May 20, 2007)

This one is in Sydney, where the motorway continues, but under a different name - in this instance it is the end of the M2 (Hills Motorway), and the start of the M7 (Westlink).









Photo from Ozroads

This photo also demonstrates the current limbo stage that NSW is in as it moves the older route numbering system to alphanumeric... the M2 is actually known as Metroad 2, hence the hexagon, and the M7 which was opened in 2005 has all reference signage with the alphanumeric symbol.

All other motorways in Sydney bar the M7 are Metroads, and the number usually corresponds with the motorway number - i.e. the M4 Western Motorway is Metroad 4 and M5 South Western Motorway is Metroad 5, but the motorways to the north and south are called the F3 and F6 respectively, but are Metroad 1. There are isolated instances as to some newer signs carrying the alphanumeric M/number, but most are duly coverplated soon after with the Metroad logo...

edit / further note: Metroad 2 actually continues further on, as seen in the AD sign in the background as Old Windsor Road, which is an arterial road with grade seperated intersections, so Metroads are not all motorways, just a numbering system for the major arterial routes in Sydney.


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## Blackraven (Jan 19, 2006)

Sorry to bump this thread but I find out it to be interesting 



hetfield85 said:


> I couldn't find the pic of Malaysian expressway highway symbol but ours is quite similar to the Swiss motorway symbol..but I hope the pic below can show u our expressway symbol.


Wow, it looks like Malaysia uses the sign as well










Meanwhile, neighboring Singapore uses something like this:











ChrisZwolle said:


> Seoul Ring Road (Expressway 100):


Wow that looks cool.

It seems like the Korean method uses both US-style as well as European/International signage. 

Nice nice 



Verso said:


> The motorway/freeway symbol is rare in Australia.


They're quite rare at the moment.......but I get the feeling that the usage of the sign/symbol will increase over time.

For instance:









Anyways, the sign is also used in the Middle East as well.

Iran









Israel









P.S.



54°26′S 3°24′E;56803557 said:


>


At first, I thought that sign meant that "CARS ARE NOT ALLOWED!" :nuts::lol:


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## Exethalion (Dec 23, 2008)

Blackraven said:


> At first, I thought that sign meant that "CARS ARE NOT ALLOWED!" :nuts::lol:


That is why I really don't like the usage of that sign. To a foreigner it just says "No cars".


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

The usage of this sign is widespread in the Vienna Convention countries though.


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## marmurr1916 (Feb 3, 2010)

Penn's Woods said:


> There are? Are we talking Ax(M)-class roads or things like the A12?


Ax(M) roads are motorways. There are only a limited number of dual-carriageways in the UK that are restricted to motorised traffic only.


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## xrtn2 (Jan 12, 2011)

No motorway symbol here in Brazil


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## basiltoe345 (Jan 13, 2009)

Naga_Solidus said:


> THey have signs that say "Freeway Entrance" on all on-ramps in the USA, so you'd definetly know you're on a freeway.


That's only standard on Freeways in California. 

I'm in Illinois, and in some cases those small green "Freeway/Expressway/Tollway Entrance" would sure be useful!


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## Uppsala (Feb 26, 2010)

Sweden









Serbia









Slovakia









Germany


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## Kpc21 (Oct 3, 2008)

How do you like the Polish ones?


Motorway / end of motorway


















Expressway / end of expressway


















In practice:

- on a junction:










Płatna - toll road, the sign underneath - electronic toll collection for trucks and buses.

- end of expressway, beginning of motorway:










- a short piece of the A2 just behind the German border near Frankfurt Oder is not a motorway, the motorway begins here:


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## OulaL (May 2, 2012)

Kpc21 said:


>


Why is the end-sign needed?

No section of road can be both motorway and expressway; so if one begins, shouldn't that automatically mean that the other ends? (Well, it does at least in Finland and Sweden. Not sure about other countries.)


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## Kpc21 (Oct 3, 2008)

Well pointed out, it makes no sense 

I will check what our law says about that, does it demand such signage... Because it's quite stupid.

So... the law doesn't say much about it. It just says that the "bridge" sign must be placed at the beginning of a motorway, "crossed bridge" where it ends, and same with "car" and "crossed car". So they applied it literally, as there was no exception in the regulations saying that the "crossed" sign can be neglected if there is a change from motorway to expressway or vice versa. The only what is said is that when the beginning of the motorway or expressway is in built-up area, there must be a sign indicating the end of the built-up area. Why? Maybe someone considered that a driver may think he is still in built-up area and that he cannot drive faster than 50 km/h. On a motorway.

The legal act is here: http://dziennikustaw.gov.pl/du/2003/s/220/2181/D2003220218102.pdf - the points from 5.2.7 to 5.2.10. If someone is Polish or is really interested and wants to translate it for himself.


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## Stavros86 (Jun 12, 2010)

In Greece, the motorway sign has gone through several iterations, since its initial adaptation, in 1974.
The German influence in the latest version is obvious.


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## Kpc21 (Oct 3, 2008)

So, analyzing the old legal acts, it seems that the first Polish motorway sign looked so:

















It is from the executive act (rozporządzenie - regulation) from 1968.

The change to the current version must have taken place in 1970s. The signs were then defined by an "instruction" being a separate document, I cannot find on the Internet - which was issued in 1974. The regulation from that year refers to the "instruction". And it also changes the color of the directional signs from yellow with black letters to green with white letters.

Probably the "instruction" changed also the font used on the road signs. From what I read in English Wikipedia, the current font was created in 1975. Maybe the "instruction" was then updated.

The appearances of the road signs returned to the legal acts in 1983 with the next big reform. The regulation from 1983 defines the Polish road sign looking practically as they look like now - with rather minor changes and new signs added in the meantime. They are already with the new font, as well as with the octagonal STOP sign. It seems that it also introduced signage for "roads for car-like vehicles only" - its usage was then different than now, and it was same at it's now in some European countries. It doesn't mean a special motorway-like road, but just a road on which cars, trucks, buses and motorbikes only are allowed.

This is the screenshot from the regulation:










Because it might be interesting to look at the changes in the other signs too, I attach the links to both regulations:

- from 1968: http://isap.sejm.gov.pl/Download?id=WDU19680270183&type=2
- from 1983: http://isap.sejm.gov.pl/Download?id=WDU19830500224&type=2

You can find the shapes of road signs at the very end.


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## OulaL (May 2, 2012)

Kpc21 said:


> The only what is said is that when the beginning of the motorway or expressway is in built-up area, there must be a sign indicating the end of the built-up area. Why? Maybe someone considered that a driver may think he is still in built-up area and that he cannot drive faster than 50 km/h. On a motorway.


Yes, in Finland it's like this also. We don't even have any default speed limit for motorways – theoretically, it's always 50 in built-up areas and 80 elsewhere, if nothing else is signposted.

(In practice, though, the speed limit is signposted on the beginning of every motorway, as well as every entry ramp – even when it is 80.)


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## x-type (Aug 19, 2005)

in Croatia we actually had/have Italian influence of motorway signs. in 90es (and in Yugoslavia) the motorway sign was always made in giant dimensions, i'd say 5x2 metres. Italy has it too altough I have ntoiced that Italian motorway signs became smaller.

now we officially use German square size.

one more "Italian" thing: this obsolete sign is still present at every motorway entrance.


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## Kpc21 (Oct 3, 2008)

OulaL said:


> Yes, in Finland it's like this also. We don't even have any default speed limit for motorways – theoretically, it's always 50 in built-up areas and 80 elsewhere, if nothing else is signposted.


In Poland the only increase of the default speed limit by signposting which is allowed is, I believe, increasing the default 50/60 (50 normally, 60 late at night) in the built-up area to 60 (also during the day) or 70.

For anything more, the road must be excluded from the built-up area. Then, the maximum speed for passenger cars is 90 (100 on double-carriageways).

The regulations say when the road should be signposted as built-up area, but this is often ignored by the road managers, especially on the minor roads, and it's not rare to meet a built-up area in the middle of a forest or when there are only fields around. The police like to catch the drivers for speeding in such places.

Or even weirder signage, where you enter the built-up area, the houses end but there is no "end of built-up area" sign. When the next village begins, there is again a "beginning of built-up area" sign although the previous one didn't end yet.

There is also at least one and a half road fulfilling at least the expressway (or even motorway) standards which are not signposted as motorway.

One is the Drogowa Trasa Średnicowa (DTŚ) in the Upper Silesian urban area. From what I know, it fulfills the expressway standards. But the law states that the motorways and expressways must be national roads (managed by the state). While this road was built by the voivodeship (province) and therefore it's not a national road, but a voivodeship road. So it cannot be signposted as an expressway, and the official maximum speed is 100 km/h instead of 120 km/h.

The other one is the northern carriageway of the 18 national road between the German border and the junction with the 297 voivodeship road near Bolesławiec (the one from Wrocław towards the border). This is the road connecting Wrocław with Berlin. While this carriageway is new (it was built in 2006), the southern one (from Berlin to Wrocław) was built in 1937 in 1938 as a Reichsautobahn and not renovated from that time. So its condition is quite bad.

While it would make perfect sense to signpost the northern carriageway as a motorway and the southern one simply not, it seems that there is no such possibility. The whole road can either be a motorway or not. But not a single carriageway. So the official maximum speed on the northern carriageway is 100 km/h instead of 140 km/h. On the southern carriageway, more strict speed limits are signposted, like 80 or even 70 km/h. Germans knew how to built good and durable roads, but after so many years even a Reichsautobahn needs renovation.


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## Sponsor (Mar 19, 2006)

OulaL said:


> Why is the end-sign needed?
> 
> No section of road can be both motorway and expressway; so if one begins, shouldn't that automatically mean that the other ends? (Well, it does at least in Finland and Sweden. Not sure about other countries.)


It's not necessary but I think it's good just as a reminder that Warsaw ring is an expressway, not a motorway.

If there was only a motorway-start sign, one would think that the previous section was also a motorway. How? Here's an example:
https://goo.gl/maps/SFHHsfUj9iF2

Motorway-start sign in the middle of motorway... silly? Not really, because there is where toll motorway ends and toll-free motorway starts


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## Kanadzie (Jan 3, 2014)

Kpc21 said:


> There is also at least one and a half road fulfilling at least the expressway (or even motorway) standards which are not signposted as motorway.
> 
> One is the Drogowa Trasa Średnicowa (DTŚ) in the Upper Silesian urban area. From what I know, it fulfills the expressway standards. But the law states that the motorways and expressways must be national roads (managed by the state). While this road was built by the voivodeship (province) and therefore it's not a national road, but a voivodeship road. So it cannot be signposted as an expressway, and the official maximum speed is 100 km/h instead of 120 km/h.
> 
> The other one is the northern carriageway of the 18 national road between the German border and the junction with the 297 voivodeship road near Bolesławiec (the one from Wrocław towards the border). This is the road connecting Wrocław with Berlin. While this carriageway is new (it was built in 2006), the southern one (from Berlin to Wrocław) was built in 1937 in 1938 as a Reichsautobahn and not renovated from that time. So its condition is quite bad.


There is something similar in Quebec, Canada
The highway law says for motorways (autoroutes), limit is 100 km/h.
And for normal roads, outside built-up areas, 90 km/h.
But that the transport ministry can post a lower limit if necessary.

So, 6-lane full standard motorway Route 116 south of Montreal is posted 90 km/h, while random 2-lane road with STOP signs Autoroute 955 is posted 100 km/h :nuts:

FWIW I've seen similar "built-up area" in Belgium... for example on Ring Antwerpen on all the exit ramps you'll find the "entering built-up area" sign...


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## Sponsor (Mar 19, 2006)

The 90 km/h seems reasonable due to high traffic volumes, frequently merging ramps and noise regulations in urban areas.


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

So in Quebec _autoroutes_ may be also single-carriaggeway roads? It's different than the definition of _autoroute_ in France. Maybe in Quebec it just means "_road reserved for motor vehicles_", instead of "_divided and grade-separated road, with at least two lanes per direction, reserved to motor vehicles_"?.


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## Autobahn-mann (Mar 1, 2013)

Stavros86 said:


> In Greece, the motorway sign has gone through several iterations, since its initial adaptation, in 1974.
> The German influence in the latest version is obvious.





Kpc21 said:


> So, analyzing the old legal acts, it seems that the first Polish motorway sign looked so:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't remember if were just posted also the evolution of Italian signs of motorways and expressways... If not, maybe Tomorrow (or in the next days) I can do it


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## pccvspw999 (Aug 13, 2009)

Wrong.


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## Kanadzie (Jan 3, 2014)

italystf said:


> So in Quebec _autoroutes_ may be also single-carriaggeway roads? It's different than the definition of _autoroute_ in France. Maybe in Quebec it just means "_road reserved for motor vehicles_", instead of "_divided and grade-separated road, with at least two lanes per direction, reserved to motor vehicles_"?.


Generally yes, but they may also be single-carriageway motorways (grade-separated, access controlled) like the Autoroute 50, sections of A-55. Most of these roads are planned / built to be expanded to divided 4 lane in the future.

But there are some rare exceptions, A-955 being most prominent where no real motorway nature is evident (however ! The road is limited-access... there's nothing near there :lol and the somewhat debatable city street sections of A-19 on Montreal Island (and former A-25 along Henri-Bourassa Blvd).

I searched a little bit and the official Code de la securite routiere shows this:


> 297. Le ministre des Transports peut, au moyen d’une signalisation appropriée, identifier comme autoroute un chemin public.


 :lol:

One small interesting point - during the beginning stages of the autoroute planning and construction in the 1950's, they referred to them as "autostrades" from the Italian word. Only shortly before the first autoroute opened in 1959 did they adopt the then-recently coined word from France.


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

^^Not to mention the purported Autoroute 20 between Dorval and Autoroute 30....


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## ChrisZwolle (May 7, 2006)

Sweden evidently also used the word autostrade in the 1950s. In Flanders they are also called an autostrade besides autosnelweg, without taking into account that autostrade is plural in Italian.


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## Kpc21 (Oct 3, 2008)

Adopting a word from another language not taking care it's plural (because the plural form just fits better to the new language) is quite a usual thing. Let's say Eskimo - in Polish, a single Eskimo is called Eskimos.

And you will find many such examples.

But concerning the motorways and autostrads, we just adopted the Italian word autostrada, without any change, which was quite logical, as the -a ending works quite similarly in both most Slavic languages, including Polish, as well as in many Romance languages, including Italian. Both here and here it indicates a feminine noun.

What's more, the Polish word for a road - droga - is also feminine, similarly as the Italian strada.

Some other European languages, including probably most of the Germanic ones, and French, by the way, too, ends the feminine nouns with -e. So "autostrade" in Swedish must have made sense.


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

Kanadzie said:


> Generally yes, but they may also be single-carriageway motorways (grade-separated, access controlled) like the Autoroute 50, sections of A-55. Most of these roads are planned / built to be expanded to divided 4 lane in the future.
> 
> But there are some rare exceptions, A-955 being most prominent where no real motorway nature is evident (however ! The road is limited-access... there's nothing near there :lol and the somewhat debatable city street sections of A-19 on Montreal Island (and former A-25 along Henri-Bourassa Blvd).


In Italy there are some 2-lanes roads signposted as motorways:

- T1 Mont Blanc tunnel
- T2 Gran San Bernardo Tunnel and its access road
- T2 Frejus tunnel
- beginning of A3 in Naples (opened in 1929!)
- end of A15 in La Spezia
- A6 "raccordo di Fossano" (connection between A6 and the town of Fossano)

Maybe there are other short branches I don't know.


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## OulaL (May 2, 2012)

italystf said:


> In Italy there are some 2-lanes roads signposted as motorways:


Also every motorway access road in Italy is signposted as a motorway, even when the directions are not separated. In some countries no bidirectional piece of road can be a motorway, not even the shortest ramp: the motorway sign is only shown after the directions have been separated.

An another difference is in toll plazas. In Denmark there can be no stopping on a motorway, and this is why the motorway ends right before the toll plaza (and begins again right after).


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

OulaL said:


> Also every motorway access road in Italy is signposted as a motorway, even when the directions are not separated. In some countries no bidirectional piece of road can be a motorway, not even the shortest ramp: the motorway sign is only shown after the directions have been separated.


This is because because when you turn into the on-ramp, you have no other choise than entering the motorway, so is useful to put the motorway sign just at the beginning to prevent pedestrians, bicycles, mopeds and tractors to get in.

But the road I listed can be used even without using the motorway proper, so the only reasons they are signposted as motorways are historical (in the past, the double carriaggeway wasn't a requirement to get motorway designation, as single-carriaggeway motorways were allowed).


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## Autobahn-mann (Mar 1, 2013)

italystf said:


> In Italy there are some 2-lanes roads signposted as motorways:
> 
> - T1 Mont Blanc tunnel
> - T2 Gran San Bernardo Tunnel and its access road
> ...


Also ending of A8 in Varese, also if I don't know if it's classificated A8, but was the end of the historical stretches of the motorway.
I don't remember eventually other stretches one carriageway 2-lanes, but I know that till 10 years ago there was also 3-lanes stretches, like A6 and final part of A32 near T4 tunnel.


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

Autobahn-mann said:


> Also ending of A8 in Varese, also if I don't know if it's classificated A8, but was the end of the historical stretches of the motorway.
> I don't remember eventually other stretches one carriageway 2-lanes, but I know that till 10 years ago there was also 3-lanes stretches, like A6 and final part of A32 near T4 tunnel.


No, it's classificated SS707 and has blue signs.
Was it the last section of Autostrada dei Laghi from 1924?

Also some viaducts on A24 were open only half-profile until the 2000s.


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## 54°26′S 3°24′E (Oct 26, 2007)

Kpc21 said:


> Some other European languages, including probably most of the Germanic ones, and French, by the way, too, ends the feminine nouns with -e. So "autostrade" in Swedish must have made sense.


Language lesson of the day. Swedish (and Danish) no longer has feminine, so autostrade (did they really use that form in singular. It sounds strange to me) , would probably be masculine. In most flavors of Norwegian, feminine is still used. Autostrada is also used in Norwegian, mainly about foreign roads or figuratively speaking, but it is masculine. Scandinavian languages change the ending of nouns to make them definite, and only sometimes use the definite article. Hence, autostradaen is the definite form in Norwegian. The main words for motorway/freeway are however motorveg/motorvei (both are allowed).


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

Autostrada is official used in Polish, Romanian and Albanian, although plurals are different. It's also used in Russian (together with another word I don't know), of course translitterated in Cyrillic.


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

^^And isn't it "autoestrada" in Portuguese?


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## volodaaaa (Apr 9, 2013)




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## MajKeR_ (Feb 5, 2009)

I appreciate those with Škoda 100 (1966 and 1975) the most.


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## OulaL (May 2, 2012)

That car looks like the present-day Norwegian...


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## italystf (Aug 2, 2011)

Penn's Woods said:


> ^^And isn't it "autoestrada" in Portuguese?


Yes, but estrada means road in Portoguese, so autoestrada is the natural composite word.


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## Kpc21 (Oct 3, 2008)

There are also some languages borrowing from German... Isn't it "autobana" in Bulgarian? I think I heard it from a coach driver there. But Wiktionary says "автомагистрала" (avtomagistrala).

Because as a slang word for a German motorway, it's used even in English on this forum ("autobahns"), in Polish sometimes too, but I am talking about a general use for any motorway.


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## x-type (Aug 19, 2005)

volodaaaa said:


> https://i.imgur.com/VUCi1zD.png


this car on 1997 and 2016 cversions looks like anything but the car


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## volodaaaa (Apr 9, 2013)

x-type said:


> this car on 1997 and 2016 cversions looks like anything but the car


Our independent-Slovakia traffic sign design is horrible. Fortunately, there are some attempts to change it. To me, it looks like all signs are made of paper-cuts done by pupils in nursery school :lol:


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## Penn's Woods (Apr 8, 2010)

Kpc21 said:


> There are also some languages borrowing from German... Isn't it "autobana" in Bulgarian? I think I heard it from a coach driver there. But Wiktionary says "автомагистрала" (avtomagistrala).
> 
> Because as a slang word for a German motorway, it's used even in English on this forum ("autobahns"), in Polish sometimes too, but I am talking about a general use for any motorway.


A lot of Americans insist on saying things like "I've driven on the Autobahn." As if there's only one. Makes me grit my teeth. :bash:


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## aubergine72 (Jul 27, 2014)

Kpc21 said:


> There are also some languages borrowing from German... Isn't it "autobana" in Bulgarian? I think I heard it from a coach driver there. But Wiktionary says "автомагистрала" (avtomagistrala).


Autoban is used in Bulgarian but not a lot. The main word is magistrala.


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## Kpc21 (Oct 3, 2008)

In Polish, magistrala refers to any important transportation path. Like "magistrala wodociągowa" - which would be one of the main water supply pipes in the city. Or "Centralna Magistrala Kolejowa", which is the main central railway line. Of course, "magistrala drogowa" is also sometimes used, but it's a general word for a main route in any type of transport. Not necessarily to a motorway while talking about roads (although it's possible).

Also in computer science, the English word "bus" (like in USB - Universal Serial Bus or FSB bus on old computer motherboards) is translated as "magistrala". Or as "szyna" - "rail".


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