# SERBIA | Railways



## takini

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Serbian Railways were founded in 1884 when Beograd-Niš line was opened.
Today they operate on 4092 km of tracks of which 1724 km are electrified.
Number of locomotives: 417, passenger coaches: 797 and freight carriages: 7528. 

Passenger trains: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=50128851#post50128851
Freight trains: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=48552455#post50930883
Rolling stock: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=48527767#post48527767
Infrastructure: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=50752315#post50752315
Railway stations: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=48681659#post48681659
Works: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=48590203#post48590203 
Tourist trains: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=49014909#post49014909
Nostalgia trains: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=50930883#post50930883
Narrow gauge trains: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=51389237#post50930883
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http://www.crnarupa.singidunum.ac.r...met Turizam i prostor/index_files/Page612.htm


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## takini

Class 441 made by Koncar (Croatia) 




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Class 444 is modernized class 441




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Class 461 is made by Electroputere (Romania)




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Class 666 made by EMD




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Class 641 made by Ganz (Hungary)




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Class 642/643 made by Djuro Djakovic (Croatia)




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Class 644 made by Macosa (Spain)




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Class 661 made by GM




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Class 621 made by CMKS (Czechia)




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Class 412 made by RVZ (Latvia)




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Kucevo station










Mataruska Banja station



















www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Freight station Belgrade




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

New maintenance hall




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Class 621 at the station










New switches 



















www.railserbia.net


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## takini

At the new railway bridge in Belgrade. Class 412










Class 461










Class 412










www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Class 412



















Class 461 in the old livery










www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Class 412










Bridge at night



















www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Class 412 between Belgrade and Valjevo










Class 661 










www.railserbia.net


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## takini

The big greens




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

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## takini

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## takini

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## takini

The big reds




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## CrazySerb

Nice job, takini:cheers:

Some new winter photos...

























































































































































































































*Photos by DuleBG (zeljeznice.net)*


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## takini

Electrification work on the line between Cacak and Kraljevo is finished.










www.bueker.net/trainspotting

First electric locomotive on the tracks


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## takini

The locomotive used is the class 444




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## MarcVD

takini said:


> At the new railway bridge in Belgrade. Class 412
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New bridge ? Are you sure ? Isn't that the bridge visible from the approach
of Belgrade central passenger station ? If this is it, I saw it, under 
construction but nearly finished, when I was there, on my way to Athens,
when I was 20 years old. That is, 30 years ago...


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## takini

It's a misunderstanding. The official name is "The New Railway Bridge" so everybody calls it new railway bridge. And you are right it's radder old now, it was finished in 1978. You where crossing the river via "The Old Railway Bridge" when you saw it. They weren't very imaginative when they gave them names. 

There is a large area in Belgrade called "The New Belgrade" even though they started constructing it in 1947.


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## takini

Due to the snow blizzard train from Vienna was 8 hours late!










The first coach is Serbian one, with the new gray livery. The second and third ones are Austrian. The fourth coach is from Bulgaria. Fifth from Kiev and sixth from Moscow. 










Coaches from Kiev and Moscow were supposed to arrive yesterday but they couldn't leave Budapest. They are arriving 15 hours late!










www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Class 444 pulling freight. Since traffic have been normalized there are a lot of freight trains on the tracks.




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Freshly refurbished class 661 going to pick up coaches for Bucharest.




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Class 461 at the Belgrade Main Station



















and pulling freight










www.railserbia.net


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## Cristii

Nice photos! In terms of rollling stock, Serbian Railways are pretty similar with the Romanian ones, IMO. Do you have any two-deckers?


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## takini

No, Serbian Railways don't have any double decker coaches. I don't like how double decker coaches look, classical coaches look much better and are more elegant.


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## takini

Serbian Railways are in possession of numerous salon coaches. These coaches were used by the former Yugoslav president Josip Broz Tito and other high ranking communist officials. Most of them are still usable today and serve as coaches for special and touristic trains.




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

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## takini

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## takini

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## takini

Interior of the salon coaches




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

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## takini

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## takini

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## takini

Some of the coaches are used for regular sleeping coach service




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

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## takini

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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

"The Blue Train" is part of the tourist sight-seeing package for tourists cruising down the Danube. It consist of 6 salon coaches and a matching locomotive.










The locomotive is also used for everyday freight pulling so it doesn't look so clean and shiny. 










At the Port of Belgrade










www.railserbia.net


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## takini

And here are all six of them




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

This coach is younger than the rest of the lot, it was used by the Yugoslav federal government. 




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

The Blue Train cruising along the river




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

At the Port of Belgrade










Leaving the Sremski Karlovci station



















www.railserbia.net


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## takini

At the Topcider valley










This one is used by the Railway's senior management, not so fancy as the old ones



















www.railserbia.net


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## פובליק פיינט

I see no pics


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## takini

I'm afraid my bandwidth is exceeded 

Plenty of pictures here: http://galerija.railserbia.net/


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## takini

Class 710 operates on the lines marked with red.










www.bueker.net/trainspotting


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Class 412 operates on these lines.










www.bueker.net/trainspotting


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Sargan 8 is a narrow gauge touristic line that operates near the Zlatibor Mountain in the Serbia’s west. It’s a section of the abolished narrow gauge line that used to connect Sarajevo and Belgrade. It’s called Sargan 8 because the line creates a shape of the number eight while climbing up the mountain. The ride starts at the bottom on the Mokra Gora station and finishes at the top in the Sargan-Vitasi station. The train also goes in the opposite direction to the neighboring Bosnia, to the Dobrun station, just outside the town of Visegrad. The trains are hauled by diesel and steam locomotives.


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## takini

Pictures from the times when the line was still open for the regular service



















This DMU was carrying passengers until the line was closed. Later they sold it to Portugal: 










www.zovspozega.co.rs


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## takini

This is the junction were the line made the turn for Sarajevo. Unfortunately this area was sunken by creating a water dam. 




























www.zovspozega.co.rs


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## takini

This locomotive used to run there and now it stands in front of the Cacak station. 




























www.zovspozega.co.rs


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## takini

This is how the tunnel heading for Bosnia used to look: 










And today:










Unfortunately the line doesn’t go all the way to Visegrad because the route is used as a road by the local villagers.










www.zovspozega.co.rs


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## takini

That was the history now let’s see how the Sargan 8 looks today.




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

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## takini

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## takini

Mokra Gora station beginning of the ride:










http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=sr&ie=UTF8&ll=43.792554,19.507615&spn=0.001944,0.003428&t=h&z=18

Jatare station:










http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=sr&ie=UTF8&ll=43.802811,19.518628&spn=0.003887,0.006856&t=h&z=17

Sargan-Vitasi station end of the ride:










http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=sr&ie=UTF8&ll=43.82931,19.540536&spn=0.007771,0.013711&t=h&z=16

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

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## takini

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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

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## takini

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## takini

Border control: 










www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Dobrun Monastery 










And next to it: 



















www.railserbia.net


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## takini

A snow plow:










A roundabout: 



















www.railserbia.net


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## takini

www.railserbia.net


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## takini

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## takini

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## FazilLanka

I love to see more of this kind of trains.


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## takini

^^http://zeljeznice.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8320&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30


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## panda80

I took a ride on that railway (from Mokra Gora to Sargan) and it's indeed fantastic! The most spectacular railway I ever saw! Thanks for the pictures:banana:


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## takini

A couple of night videos:


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## marillion

nice topic 

living 5 minutes from a train station and having two close friends working there made me interested into trains.. I love looking at those strong locomotives!


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## takini

Fresh pics 




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Beograd-Sarajevo










Beograd-Bar



















www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Beograd-Subotica




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

New maintenance hall http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=48722449&postcount=103 is finished 










http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=sr&ie=UTF8&ll=44.742024,20.382793&spn=0.007651,0.013711&t=h&z=16










The Belgrade “Metro” rail tunnel underneath the city










www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Fresh snowy pictures 




























www.railserbia.net


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## takini

You are right those are the best and the youngest we have. Here are some nice pictures with MAV and OBB locomotives:




























www.railpictures.net


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## takini

Uppsala said:


> These coaches type Alm and Blm are very similar to Eurofima UIC Z1-type. Specially the Austrian UIC-Z1 are similar to this coaches. But note the windows that definitely are *not* Austrian. It is exactly the same sort of windows like the Swedish IC-coaches in B7-generation from the 1980's. Maybe the windows are made in Sweden


I think that GOSA bought the licence from some German company. They are UIC Z2.










www.railserbia.net


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## Uppsala

takini said:


> I think that GOSA bought the licence from some German company. They are UIC Z2.
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Yes its Z2 not Z1. But they looks more Austrian than German. German coachbuilder LHB built some Z1 for DB but they looks more like coaches built by SGP in Austria. Specially one generation of Amz and Bmz-coaches at ÖBB looks very similar to the Serbian Alm and Blm. Maybe GOŠA get the licence or working together with SGP?

But its also very interesting with the Swedish windows on the Alm and Blm-coaches. The windows at this coaches are identical with the windows you can find att the coches from SJ like the A7, B7, BF4, BC4 and other coaches you can find here in Sweden. Maybe GOŠA was working together with Swedish coachbuilder KVAB too?


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## takini

I’m afraid those details are beyond my level of expertise. You can ask questions about Serbian coaches in here: http://www.railserbia.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=14&sid=ae7d6f936ce8ee1cd1de5c46d4e70b7f

Here are some close-ups of the windows:



















www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Since you are interested in Serbian coaches here are some more pictures. This one is a Y:










B










AB










www.railserbia.net


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## takini

Al










ABlm










Ac










www.railserbia.net


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## takini

WR



















Atl 










www.railserbia.net


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## Uppsala

takini said:


> Since you are interested in Serbian coaches here are some more pictures. This one is a Y:
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Thank you for very nice pictures! I like the style of Serbian coaches 
There is very lot of coaches type UIC Y in Serbia. But do you know when GOŠA built the first coach of Y-type? I had heard 1964 or 1965. Is that correct?

In begin of 1960's GOŠA built some coaches who were 26,4 long and the size of them were similar to UIC type X. But the didn’t look like UIC type X, they looked quite different. Some of them were couchettes. They hade big slam doors too. How old could those be? 

One more thing is interesting. In serbia you have some sleeping cars (kola za spavanje in Serbian) who are a Spanish type. It is the same type like the Spanish type YF.


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## takini

I’m afraid I don’t know when GOSA started making them. Apparently they acquired the bogie license from Wegman.
X coaches were made from 1959 to 1964. First ones were delivered by Polish Pafawag and then GOSA took over the production. 










This one is from Macedonia:










In Serbia they are used as utility coaches:










As for the Spanish coaches maybe you are referring to these made by CAF. As far as I know they are all retired.










www.railserbia.net


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## Uppsala

takini said:


> I’m afraid I don’t know when GOSA started making them. Apparently they acquired the bogie license from Wegman.
> X coaches were made from 1959 to 1964. First ones were delivered by Polish Pafawag and then GOSA took over the production.
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I remember in the begin of 1990’s some of the old type X coaches were still in service in Serbia, or maybe in Montenegro. Some of the old type X had bogies type Wegmann and some other had older bogies. But maybe the Wegmann is not original on type X?

In Greece there were some old X-coaches from GOŠA at the Greek railways OSE. And I know OSE also had some Y-coaches from GOŠA.

Its also very interesting that GOŠA built the Y-coaches with bogies type Wegmann and not Minden-Deutz. In many European countries the bogies from Minden-Deutz was the standard model. Here in Sweden Minden-Deutz was standard from 1954. Wegmann is a sort of bogies you don’t see so much in other countries. In Germany they had Wegmann at some sleeping cars type WLABmh174. But it was only the first ones who had Wegmann. The rest of them had Minden-Deutz. But I had travelled with Serbian coaches with Wegmann and I think the bogies are very good. The are very comfortable. So I don’t know why they didn’t made coaches with Wegmann in more countries.

But I know the later produced Y-coaches in Serbia have the modern Minden-Deutz 52 instead of Wegmann. They are produced by GOŠA. In Hungary they have some Z1-coaches who are made by GOŠA and they have also Minden-Deutz 52.


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## takini

The original bogie for the X was Polish Goerlitz. As for the Y coaches I’m only guessing but since Yugoslav Railways also bought coaches from Wegmann maybe they achieved a good price for the bogies.


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## Uppsala

takini said:


> The original bogie for the X was Polish Goerlitz. As for the Y coaches I’m only guessing but since Yugoslav Railways also bought coaches from Wegmann maybe they achieved a good price for the bogies.


How did the Wegmann coaches look like? Did they look like DB-coaches?

Do you know when the last X-coaches in Serbia were retired?


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## takini

They are still working but only as a touristic train: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=49014909&postcount=132

I don’t know when did they retired X coaches from regular passenger service but they are still using them for utility purposes. The Macedonian one was used on a Beograd-Skopje train in 2008. I don’t know is it still running.


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## takini

Guys I just want to inform you that tinypic.com has fu#kt up my images. If you see some strange or offensive images in here I want you to know that they are not from me.


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## takini

"Serbian Railways" and "Metrovagonmash" from Russia signed the Contract about purchase of ten new diesel - motor trains​
Wednesday, 14. April 2010.


"Serbian Railways" Director General Milovan Marković and manager of Russian company "Metrovagonmaš" Vladimir Oseev signed on April 14 in Belgrade the Contract about purchase of ten new diesel - motor trains, from the credit of international railway bank "Eurofima".

"Serbian Railways", after almost three decades are acquiring new trains for the passenger traffic, which should, as planned, improve internal, especially regional traffic, on the non-electrified lines in Serbia. 










http://www.train-photo.ru/details.php?image_id=55708​
The ambassador of Russian Federation in Serbia, Aleksandar Vasiljevič Konuzin, was present on the Contract signing, as well as State Secretary in the Ministry for the Infrastructure of the Republic of Serbia Slavoljub Vukićević, PhD, and the president of the Managing Board of the "Serbian Railways" Zoran Anđelković, as well as representatives of "Serbian Railways" and "Metrovagonmaš".

- The value of the Contract is 34 million 380 thousands Swiss franks, and beside the acquisition of new ten diesel - motor trains, it includes purchase of the tools and equipment for maintenance, expendable material and spare parts, preparation of technical documentation and training of "Serbian Railways" staff - said "Serbian Railways" Director General Milovan Marković.

According to his words, the funds for acquisition of new trains were provided from the credit of the international railway bank „Eurofima“. On the Tender, which was organized by the end of the last year, four big European companies participated: CAF from Spain, "ŽOS Vrutky" from Slovakia, Russian "Metrovagonmaš" and Croation "Gredelj". Russian company "Metrovagonmaš", which is part of "Transmaš" holding, was chosen as the most favourable one on the international public Tender; realization of this Tender was followed by "Eurofima" itself.

- The Contract envisages that the first diesel - motor train will be on the Serbian lines in about one year, while the remaining nine will be in traffic in two years, at the latest , - Marković outlined. 

- This Contract is extremely important because it is one of the first that is being signed between our two countries, which indicated that we have stable relations with the future perspective, because new possibilities are being opened four our co-operation. So far, our relations were primarily connected to energetic, but I think that the sphere of the infrastructure will become other in the field of our co-operation. I hope that this Contract will be just base for other Contracts that are being considered at the moment. I am especially satisfied because the Russian company participated on the international Tender and won, which says that we have to develop direct relations between companies between Serbia and Russia, - said the ambassador Konuzin.

- This is the first Contract that our firm signs in Serbia, and it is extremely important for us, because we are emerging on the new market, where we had not been present earlier. I can assure you that all conditions that were envisaged by the Contract will be completed entirely. I hope that we will be greeted on the same way when we deliver the first train for a year, and that they will be exploited in Serbia as your nearest neighbours Hungarians and Bulgarians do. I hope that this Contract is not the last one that is being signed and that our relations will be better and more stable, - said manager of the Russian company "Metrovagonmaš" Vladimir Oseev, on the occasion of the Contract signing. 

New diesel - motor train units, as requested by the Tender documentation, will be produced according to all domestic and international standards. These trains will be equipped with modern air condition, ventilation and heating system, as well as with steering, control and diagnostic system. Their maximal speed can be up to 160 km/h, but the speed will depend upon conditions of the railway infrastructure in Serbia, therefore the Contract envisages that they can operate up to the speed of 100 km/h. These trains will have internal video surveillance, internal and external display, they will be provided with sound, as well as modern vacuum toilets for the people with special needs.Considering the technical characteristics, it is envisaged that these trains operate 35 years.

http://www.zeleznicesrbije.com/syst...iewsingle/_params/newsplus_news_id/24534.html​


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## Marek.kvackaj

what is price per one train?


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## takini

I don’t know but if we count out the costs of the spare parts, the tools, the training and the transport then let’s say 3 million per unit.


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## Marek.kvackaj

takini said:


> I don’t know but if we count out the costs of the spare parts, the tools, the training and the transport then let’s say 3 million per unit.


$ or euro ?


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## takini

Swiss franks, read the article


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## miroruse

^^ That Russian machine looks like an unbreakable tank from WWII :lol: Hope at least travel to be comfortable, something Russians are not famous for. hno:


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## takini

www.vagonweb.cz


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## takini

www.vagonweb.cz


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## takini

www.vagonweb.cz


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## NiGhtPiSH

Ovo je Titovi voz (Plavi voz)? / Is this the train of Tito?


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## takini

Yes that’s were Tito and his guests used to have lunch.


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## Perennial Quest

From Construction Europe magazine:

*More EBRD backing for Serb railways*

The European Bank for Reconstruction & Development (EBRD) is supporting further modernisation of rail operations in Serbia with a € 100 million sovereign guaranteed loan to the Serbian state-owned railway company, Zeleznice Srbije.

The finance will be used for the upgrading of Corridor X rail and the purchase of locomotives.

Corridor X is the primary transport route in Serbia, running on a north-south axis and connecting major and secondary urban centres by road and rail. This includes the three largest cities - Belgrade, Novi Sad and Nis.

The EBRD loan will be used to renew over 111 km of track on Corridor X, to purchase track maintenance machinery and to acquire 15 new electric locomotives, which will replace outdated cars for freight services.

It is said the investment would assist Zeleznice Srbije in raising the quality and efficiency of passenger and freight services on rail Corridor X, reducing maintenance costs and improving energy efficiency.

The project, supported by € 650000 in technical assistance grants from the Central European Initiative, German government and the bank's Shareholder Special Fund, will also support Zeleznice Srbije in its restructuring process, implementation of this project and the development of various energy efficiency initiatives.

This is the EBRD's fourth financing extended to Zeleznice Srbije. In total, including the latest loan, the bank provided over € 300 million for the modernisation of Serbian railways.

Since the beginning of its operations in Serbia, the EBRD has committed over € 2,2 billion in various sectors of the Serbian economy, mobilising additional investment in excess of € 2,7 billion.


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## CrazySerb

New Russian, Czech loans for reconstruction & electrification work on Serbian railways...



> *Talks on Russian loan at the end of October*
> 
> 26.10.2010 12:37:00 | Source/Author PressCut
> The loan for the Serbian railway worth EUR 350m will be discussed in the meeting of the Mixed Commission for the Cooperation between Serbia and Russia, to be held on October 28 and 29. Serbia will request funds in the amount of EUR 200m for the building of the Belgrade railway junction and EUR 150m for the railway between Valjavo and Loznica.
> 
> Serbia’s Ministry of Finances says that the Russian party requests comprehensive preliminary designs for all the suggested projects so that their cost-effectiveness can be estimated. It had already been agreed that Russia would grant USD 800m in loans for Serbia’s railway infrastructure.
> (Tanjug)





> *Nis-Dimitrovgrad railway electrification starts by end of 2010*
> 22. Okt 2010.
> 
> Works on the electrification of Nis-Dimitrovgrad railway, on railway Corridor 10, will most probably commence before the end of the year.
> 
> - That is the only section of railway Corridor 10 that has not been electrified yet - said Serbian Railways CEO Milovan Markovic.
> 
> Pointing out that the negotiations were underway for the approval of a loan of 120 million euros by the Czech Republic for the modernization of Nis-Dimitrovgrad railway, he said that all technical details of that arrangement would be cleared up very quickly, after which the loan agreement would be signed.
> 
> - The works should last for about 3.5 to 4 years, which includes complete reconstruction and electrification of the rail and replacement of safety devices - said Markovic and added that those works also included the construction of a bypass around Nis, which would enable relocation of the freight railway traffic from that city, and maybe even the passenger one.
> The railway between Nis and Dimitrovgrad is of great national and international importance and it is among the most significant international main railway lines of Europe (E-70). It is a part of the network of "high performance" railways in southeast Europe.


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## CrazySerb

Electrification work will apparently begin next year on Pancevo-Vrsac-Romania railway, with funding coming from a German loan:


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## takini

Serbian Railways are in a process of acquiring 25 EMU-s and 4 companies have made an offer. Those are: Alstom, CAF, Siemens and Stadler. After assessing the offers the commission will decide which manufacturer will supply the trains. 
Meanwhile the reconstruction of the Kraljevo station, an important junction in the central Serbia is in progress:




























http://www.railserbia.net/forum/index.php


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## takini

http://www.railserbia.net/forum/index.php


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## eminencia

takini said:


> Serbian Railways are in a process of acquiring 25 EMU-s and 4 companies have made an offer. Those are: Alstom, CAF, Siemens and Stadler.


Can you post some details about desired characteristics of these of EMUs?


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## takini

Unfortunately they didn’t specify many details in the article. The order is for 25 EMU-s and the companies that made the offer are: Alstom Transport Deutschland GmbH, Stadler Bussnang AG, Siemens AG Osterreich and CAF. 










http://zeleznicesrbije.com/active/sr-latin/dpreuzimanje/_params/file_id/26375.html#​
The article didn’t say but the trains will probably have 4 sections. The electrified lines are marked in red and the new trains will ride on almost all of them. The line marked with the dashed line will be electrified in the near future:


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## takini

According to the Russian newspapers this is how the new DMU-s for Serbian Railways will look like:









http://www.railserbia.net/forum/index.php​


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## MareCar

Not newspapers but the official magazine of the company.

Finally, black paint around the windows to please the complexes of the "that doesn't look modern" crowd :cheers:

Here's an imageshack link in case the photobucket one goes down:

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7964/number51.jpg


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## takini

Šarganska Osmica (Sargan 8) narrow gauge touristic line:


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## takini

First DMU is completed, 11 more to go.


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## takini




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## takini




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## takini




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## Uppsala

^^
The windows look like 1990s. But the rest of the train looks modern. And the train looks very European and not Russian.


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## Baron Hirsch

Hi Belgrade friends, I just took the Belgrade - Sofia - Istanbul train. It now does a weird manoeuvrer: after leaving Belgrade station, it takes the bridge across the Sava to Novi Beograd, then changes the engine to the opposite end of the train in order to cross the Sava again but over the new bridge which takes it into a tunnel via Beograd Centar before joining the old parcourse. Looking at a map, this manoeuver seems rather useless. Is it a temporary measure because of construction or is it in preparation for closing the old Belgrade station down, or what?


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## phiberoptik

It's because of construction of the new bridge and highways in area that train would normal pass


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## takini

Do to the works on the Gazela and Ada bridges traffic is detoured through the Prokop station.


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## Arnorian

I think this example of the sad state Serbian rail is in hasn't been posted before. This is a map of speed limits on Serbian railroads. These are only the regular speed limits, there are additional local limitations not shown.

The whole county (plus Montenegro):










Belgrade area:


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## takini

The new diesel train on preliminary tests:










http://www.railserbia.net/forum/


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## manrush

^^
Looks pretty massive for a European trainset.


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## takini

While the trains they are replacing look quite the opposite:










http://novomilosevo.devbin.org/nm20080404.html


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## x-type

takini said:


> While the trains they are replacing look quite the opposite:
> 
> http://i55.tinypic.com/so91mg.jpg
> 
> http://novomilosevo.devbin.org/nm20080404.html


legend!


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## CrazySerb

As of last weekend, tourists can enjoy a ride on a heritage train from Mokra Gora in western Serbia to the scenic town of Visegrad in Bosnia's Serb Republic, on a newly restored narrow-gauge railway . The next step will be the extension of this railway from Mokra Gora to the city of Uzice.


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## takini

Video of the test ride:


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## takini

The new DMU will be put into regular service on March 7th. It will run on Vršac-Beograd and Vršac-Pančevo routes.















http://www.tanjug.rs


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## takini

Pictures from the yesterday’s promotion:




























http://www.railserbia.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5199&start=600


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## takini

http://www.railserbia.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5199&start=600


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## Robi_damian

^^ Does it go to Beograd Dunav only or to Beograd main station?


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## takini

It will stop at Beograd Dunav, the station that you can see in the last picture.


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## CrazySerb

*Russia sign agreement on railway*

Source: Tanjug 



> MOSCOW -- Serbian Railways and Russian Railways signed Tuesday an agreement on projects in the areas of construction and modernization of the rail traffic in Serbia.
> 
> Serbian Railways Director General Milovan Marković and Russian Railways Director Vladimir Yakunin signed the agreement in Moscow.
> 
> The agreement envisages construction of new rail routes and reconstruction of the old ones, and the projects are expected to be launched late in 2012 after signing the Russian-Serbian agreements on interstate loans.
> 
> “We have the total of five projects. Two are related to construction of new railroads, while the other ones are related to modernization and reconstruction of the current infrastructure, including around 400 kilometers of rails. The final deadline for completion of works is five years,” Yakunin said after signing the document.


This 800 million dollar worth project includes:

- completion of Valjevo-Loznica railway
- overhaul of 200km of Belgrade-Bar railway
- overhaul of 110km of Corridor 10 railway through Serbia
- purchase of new DMU trainsets from Metrovagonmash


Overall, Serbia needs some 4-5 billion to overhaul & modernize its most crucial railway network:


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## Baron Hirsch

Any news yet which section of the corridor the construction will take place?


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## takini

^^ http://oi40.tinypic.com/2z6trg7.jpg


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## TedStriker

Does anyone know if there are any plans to enhance the loading gauge of any of these routes so that they can allow the operation of intermodal trains carrying 4m-high semi-trailers, piggyback style?


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## takini

Are you talking about Ro-La trains? I think that the main corridor has a UIC GC profile but the branch to Bulgaria maybe has a narrower one. Here’s an axle load map:


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## Theijs

eu01 said:


> Would this new railway line have anything in common with the envisaged high speed line from Hungary to Romania? I could easily imagine a common track from Budapest via Szeged and along the former 19th century line to Kikinda, where it could split with one branch continuing via Timisoara to Bucharest, the second one reaching Beograd via Zrenjanin region.


Do you mean the section Szeged - Nagylak/Nadlac - Arad - Timisoara?
http://infrastruct.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/szeged-nagylak.jpg


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## eu01

Theijs said:


> Do you mean the section Szeged - Nagylak/Nadlac - Arad - Timisoara?


Not exactly. Here's the map from the same source as yours (infrastruct), spot the difference (via Kikinda, not Arad):


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## Lightton

Nice pictures, beautiful landscapes and interesant to know how this amazing country grows and grows. Greetings from a friend of Peru.


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## Singidunum

TedStriker said:


> Please excuse my ignorance for asking but just how bad is the line between Belgrade and Hungary presently?


It takes 8-9 hours presently for the fastest train to go between Belgrade and Budapest. There are some poor sections in Serbia. As for Hungary, there are no poor sections but also there are no higher speed sections either.


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## Boza KG

Corridor X Gilje-Ćuprija-Paraćin


vladygark said:


> Slikano pre dan-dva, nova trasa Gilje-Ćuprija-Paraćin:
> 
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> 
> Dvokolosečna pruga od stanice Ćuprija ka Paraćinu (završen donji stroj).
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> Treći kolosek od Paraćina ka Ćupriji.
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> Kolosek iz stanice Ćuprija koji se uključuje na novu trasu u pravcu Gilja (Beograda).
> 
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> Nadvožnjaci.
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> 
> Autor slika i komentara: *milanknj*
> 
> Izvor: http://www.railserbia.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=244&start=120


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## Boza KG

*Corridor X Gilje-Ćuprija-Paraćin*


vladygark said:


> Неколико слика са нове деонице Гиље-Ћуприја-Параћин, *11/03/14*:
> 
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> Извор: http://www.railserbia.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=244&start=120


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## Boza KG

> *Mar 26, 2014
> Russian Railways starts work on constructing railway infrastructure in Serbia*
> 
> *A ceremony has been held to mark the beginning of the construction and electrification of the second railway line from Pančevo Bridge in Belgrade to the Pančevo Main Station.*
> 
> The ceremony was held on 25 March 2014 in Pančevo in Serbia and attended by Vladimir Yakunin, President of Russian Railways, Maxim Sokolov, Russian Transport Minister, Tomislav Nikolic, President of the Republic of Serbia, Ivica Dacic, Prime Minister of the Republic of Serbia, Dragoljub Simonovic, Managing Director of Serbian Railways, Sergei Pavlov, Managing Director of International Railways, a subsidiary of Russian Railways, and other officials.
> 
> "We are grateful that Russian Railways has been entrusted to participate in the project, together with Serbian Railways, which should form the basis for the further development of the Serbian economy. And this is only the beginning of our work," said Vladimir Yakunin during the ceremony.
> 
> "Communication links, especially railway lines, are the basis of our economic cooperation and future relations," said the Minister of Transport of the Russian Federation.
> 
> According to Maxim Sokolov, this project is historically and politically significant for the development and strengthening of good neighbourly economic and historical ties between Serbia and Russia
> 
> In January 2013, an agreement was signed in Moscow to provide a Russian state export credit to the Republic of Serbia to finance the modernisation of Serbian Railways. *The loan is for USD800 million, and the total cost of the infrastructure projects is about USD940 million. Serbia will thus finance about 15% of all the work.*
> 
> The contract between the RZD International, a subsidiary of Russian Railways which implements the RZD holding company's infrastructure projects abroad, and Serbian Railways to construct the railway infrastructure and the supply of diesel trains was signed on 23 May 2013.
> 
> In June 2013, Serbian Railways and RZD International signed an supplementary agreement which provides for the construction and electrification of the second track of the Belgrade - Pančevo railway line. The cost of work on this section is about USD105 million.
> 
> During the project, the completion of which is scheduled for 2016, about 15 km of electrified second track, 2 stations and 2 stopping platforms, 5 new bridges, including a bridge over the river Tamis, and an electro-traction substation at Pančevo will be built.
> 
> "Modernisation of our railway infrastructure is a priority of the Government of Serbia. Attracting international transit flows will bring additional financial revenues for the railways and increase the attractiveness of the state for foreign investment," said Tomislav Nikolic, President of the Republic of Serbia.
> 
> According to Nikolic, the construction of the second track will create the conditions for increasing traffic at the Belgrade railway hub due to the possibility of avoiding traffic jams on the roads. In addition, the efficiency of freight trains will be increased.
> 
> On 11 January 2013, at the Russian Finance Ministry, Anton Siluanov Finance Minister of the Russian Federation, and Mladjan Dinkic, Minister of Finance and Economy of the Republic Serbia, signed an Agreement between the Government of the Russian Federation and the Government of the Republic of Serbia to provide the Republic of Serbia with a state export credit in the amount of USD800 million.
> 
> Under this agreement, as well as the general agreement signed between Russian Railways and Serbian Railways on 27 March 2012, projects have been launched to construct or reconstruct the railway infrastructure on the territory of the Republic of Serbia, including construction work, as well as the preparation of the working documentation.
> 
> *The contract between the RZD International and Serbian Railways envisages the construction and electrification of 15 km of the second track of the Belgrade - Pančevo railway line, the reconstruction of six stretches on pan-European Corridors with a total length of 112 km, the reconstruction of existing and the construction of a second new track on the 44 km stretch of railway line between Stara Pazova - Novi Sad and the reconstruction of the Serbian section of the Belgrade - Bar railway line with a total length of 200 km, as well as the supply of diesel trains made by JSC Metrovagonmash *(Russia).









Telep said:


>


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## moderntm

Montenegro Railways. Train Belgrad-Bar. Video take in Virpazar, Montenegro. August 2013.


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## Boza KG

*Second railway line from Belgrade to Pančevo*



























































http://www.tanjug.rs/FotoDet.aspx?galID=126422


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## Boza KG

^^


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## Boza KG

*Corridor X Gilje-Ćuprija-Paraćin*


direktor said:


> Radovi na novoj deonici Gilje-Paracin. Foto by RailgrafiJa
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> sa bb od mvbg1


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## Dusko_BG

moderntm said:


> Montenegro Railways. Train Belgrad-Bar. Video take in Virpazar, Montenegro. August 2013.


 This is probably some regional train Bar-Podgorica or Bar-Bijelo Polje


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## Lightton

_Serbia la bella..._


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## Boza KG

* Second railway line from Belgrade to Pančevo*


vladygark said:


> Београд-Панчево, 06/06/14.
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> http://www.beobuild.rs/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=968&start=1925


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## Boza KG

FLIRT from Stadler Rail


vladygark said:


> https://www.facebook.com/info24SchweizEuropa?fref=photo


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## Dusko_BG

July 1st Resnik station in Belgrade
Night train 12433 ''Lovćen'' Belgrade-Bar turned through Kragujevac


335 ''Hellas'' Belgrade-Thessaloniki




Regional Paraćin-Belgrade


One freight


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## Baron Hirsch

Hi Dusko, thanks for the pics! How late are Hellas, the Nusic from Sofia and the train from Bar at the moment when arriving in Beograd?


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## TedStriker

Dusko, are you a Belgrade resident? 

If so, I'm just wondering if you know how much action the marshalling yard sees this days. It looks a bit green and rusty in the aerial images I can see. Is the hump disused do you know?


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## Dusko_BG

Baron Hirsch said:


> Hi Dusko, thanks for the pics! How late are Hellas, the Nusic from Sofia and the train from Bar at the moment when arriving in Beograd?


Hello Baron! I'm not sure but I think that those trains should be on time
because the the travel time in time table for them is very extended.





TedStriker said:


> Dusko, are you a Belgrade resident?
> 
> If so, I'm just wondering if you know how much action the marshalling yard sees this days. It looks a bit green and rusty in the aerial images I can see. Is the hump disused do you know?


I'm not Belgrade resident now but I can answer you because I asked
my friend who works there. The hump is still in use, it works.
Some tracks in park ''B'' are closed because of the bad state of switches.
It's not like before but the is still some work in Belgrade's marshaling yard.
In 24 hours some 15 or 16 trains leave the yard.
I remember that a few years ago it was much more.

There are some international freight transit trains which just
passe through Belgrade without stepping by to the yard but less than before.
It seems that those trains prefer to go through Romania now instead Serbia
I guess in order to avoid non-EU member states and spare some time without waiting on the customs. 
Decline of freight traffic in Serbia is obvious! 

Best regards!


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## TedStriker

Many thanks.


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## Skopje/Скопје

Congratulations! Very nice trains! :applause:


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## Boza KG

vladygark said:


> Ево слика са пробне вожње, Макиш, пред полазак за Шид.
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> https://www.facebook.com/LjubiteljiZelezniceSrbijezs?ref=stream
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> На повратку из Шида у Батајници.
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> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Vozovi-i-železnička-infrastruktura/213116192119878?fref=photo


...


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## Аполон

Serbian Railways




































http://ru-railway.livejournal.com/2475158.html


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## nachalnik

Some more photos from the Serbian Flirt at the Innotrans:


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## Kimiwind1184

Good to see some brandnew trains finally. They look nice. Hopefully I'll hop in one of them soon when I turn up there in late December .
:cheers:


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## Аполон




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## CrazySerb

^^
Twenty-seven additional DMU's from Russia's Metrovagonmash will be ordered , bringing the number of them operating on Serbia's
railways to about forty :cheers:

Frankly, I'd say we need about a hundred of these workhorses.


> *Zeleznice Srbije adopts contract with Russians totaling USD 150 m*
> Wednesday, 10/15/2014|13:54 | Source: Beta
> sr de
> 
> On Tuesday, October 14, 2014, the Assembly Zeleznice Srbije (Serbian Railways) adopted two annexes to the contract with the company of the Russian state-owned railways, RZD International, on procurement of 27 diesel motor vehicles and overhaul of a part of the lane at the Corridor 10, totaling USD 150, the public company announced.
> 
> According to the President of the Assembly at Zeleznice Srbije, Zoran Andjelkovic, with the assembly decision, two annexes of the initial contract on the implementation of the Russian loan for Serbian railways modernization were signed.
> 
> He estimated that the through the implementation of the Russian loan, the effects of Serbian railways modernization will "visible and recognizable very quickly " and that rails and trains in Serbia "in the next five years will become modern and more efficient ".
> 
> As it was stated in the announcement of the Zeleznice Srbije, annex 2.1 of the initial contract comprises reconstruction of the Mala Krsna-Velika Plana section , Sopot Kosmajski-Kovacevac and Ruma-Golubinci, 65,7 km long.
> 
> Value the works on these sections of the north lane at the Corridor 10 totals EUR 48,7 m.


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## aleksandar_s

Does anyone know how reliable the Metrovagonmash DMUs have been so far? How have passengers reacted to them?


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## Autoputevi kao hobi

Anyway i was just watching the railway tracks close to Vranje in Serbia and i wonder how much the originall tracks are old.


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## takini

Rails usually have the year of production on them:










Rail not from Vranje


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## dresdener78

https://www.dropbox.com/s/313ohp2th32vrz1/img211_YUrailways.pdf?dl=0
Few weeks ago, I discovered this interesting article about railways in Yugoslavia in the international railway magazine, so I scanned it for you in PDF format. This is an interview with the head of YU railways just before Yugoslavia fell apart.


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## Autoputevi kao hobi

takini said:


> Rails usually have the year of production on them:
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> Rail not from Vranje


That is soo old.


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## takini

I don’t know what sorcery is used but those rails can still handle trains.


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## TedStriker

I didn't think flat bottomed rails were made one hundred years ago. Are you sure that's the year? The rail looks to be in too good a condition to be that old in my view.


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## takini

I’m pretty sure that number stands for the year of production.

http://www.vasutallomasok.hu/forumlist.php?azon=7

The traffic on the Bela Crkva rail line isn’t very frequent so that could explain the state of the rail.


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## MarcVD

TedStriker said:


> I didn't think flat bottomed rails were made one hundred years ago. Are you sure that's the year? The rail looks to be in too good a condition to be that old in my view.


Although railways in the british isles did not widely adopt flat bottomed rail 
before WW2, this type of rail was invented by Robert L. Stevens in the USA
as early as 1830... and then imported in Europe by Charles Vignole and 
adopted by many railways way before the turn of the century. So this 1910
figure can indeed very well be a production date.

In the 1880s, Belgian railways used a special flat-bottomed rail profile named
"goliath". A piece of such a rail has been recovered during the modernization
of a belgian station about 20 years ago. The rail has been cut in small pieces,
golden plated, and distributed as souvenir to the belgian railways executives 
of that time. Now a serious collector item...


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## TedStriker

^^

Thanks.


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## lalumking

takini said:


> Rails usually have the year of production on them:
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The rails were made by the now defunct Diósgyőr Steel Plant, which is today located in Hungary: https://www.google.hu/maps/place/Di...1s0x47409fb6fb1661bd:0xbc538de4862419cb?hl=hu
In 1910, Diósgyőr was part of Austria-Hungary...so the rails are pre-WWI hno:
They track really needs a complete reconstruction.


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## TedStriker

That's mad. How come the rails haven't worn out?


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## takini

Because there aren’t any trains to worn them out. When A-H Empire died a lot of rail lines simply died out with it. The iron curtain didn’t help much neither. But what really sealed the faith of this legacy railroads is the auto industry. Passengers switched to cars and freight switched to lorries. The government followed up by investing a lot of money into road construction and the old, expensive and inefficient railroads were shunned away. Even though the rails aren’t worn out the wooden ties rot away and the track bed deteriorates into mud and dirt. That makes a rail line unusable and a lot of them are sadly abandoned. 
Luckily many lines where saved by using cheap and light rail buses to carry people around. A major revitalization program occurred in the 1980-ies but that ended when the war started. The newly bought train sets have improved service a lot but you can’t expect miracles with a century old rails.


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## CrazySerb

In addition to the ongoing works on "Belgrade Center" railway station seen on the previous page, Serbia's capital could potentially get one more modern passenger railway hub - across the river, in New Belgrade.

The order to remove a film set, a replica of the downtown Belgrade core that currently occupies the land in question, has just been given and hopefully, once funding is found, we may see something like this built...



Bez_imena said:


> *Bus station with 15 arrival and 58 departure terminals, railway station with 8 platforms - See how future complex in New Belgrade's Block 42 will look like*
> 
> New main bus station in New Belgrade will have arrival and 58 departure terminals, while the future main railway station will have 8 platforms; it has been said today at the presentation of the urban-architectonic solution of new facilities in Block 42. The first awarded solution which will serve as the base for further project and plan development is the work of the Proaspekt team with Vladimir and Milan Lojanica.
> 
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> The future complex in New Belgrade which will, apart from railway and bus station, comprise attractive business premises as wel, will occupy some 21 hectares. When it is completed, some 180.000 square meters of business space should be constructed in this part of the town (including station facilities). Three towers of 23 floors, 70 meters high will be the special stamp to this location.
> 
> The competition objective was to get the most quality solution for new traffic terminals in the central zone of New Belgrade as well as for business-commercial facilities. The winning preliminary design, as well as other works submitted, has been presented today at the Urban Bureau of the City of Belgrade.
> 
> The City Manager, Goran Vesic as well as the director of the Urban Bureau, Nebojsa Stefanovic, attended the presentation. Based on the first awarded solution, the Urban Bureau will now move into the development of the detailed regulation plan.
> 
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> 
> - The relocation will enable something we wanted for decaded. We will tru to integrate all other traffic aspects as well and to make Block 42 something it has not been up till now – the City Manager pointed out.
> 
> The investor of the competition was the Directorate for construction land and construction of the City of Belgrade.
> 
> The Urban Bureau will now start development of the Detailed regulation plan based on the first ranked design. Not everything will remain the same but the project will serve as the starting point, Vesic added.
> 
> The project of Proaspekt will also be developed with the second-ranked design of Dragan Vukovic and Kolubara invest gradnja as well as with another four purchased designs.
> 
> Vesic added that the new complex in Block 42 will comprise 180.000 square meters of quality space as well as that he expects that very soon companies ready to invest in their construction will be found.
> 
> As it was planned, new bus station will provide space for both companies – BAS and Lasta.
> 
> The author of the first awarded project, an architect, Vladimir Lojanica, pointed out that the task was not easy at all and that the competition was very strong.
> 
> - We were trying to merge architecture with the tradition and modernism heritage of New Belgrade, i.e. to leave the stamp of our times in an adequate manner – an architect added.
> 
> Director of the Urban Bureau, Nebojsa Stefanovic, reminded that 54 designs for the construction of bus and railway station were submitted, eight of which from abroad - Italy, Bulgaria, Germany and Great Britain. However, one of the competition terms was that a team lead of architects has a designing license of the Republic of Serbia.
> 
> The end of June should see a prepared catalogue of all the works and expert discussions will be organized as well. Apart from that, by the end of June, at the hall of the Urban Bureau building in Palmoticeva 30, exhibition of all the works which were submitted at the competition will be set up.
> 
> Here are a few details from the first awarded work of the Proaspekt team.
> 
> The bus station takes the central position of the block; the railway station is located along the north edge of the platform facilities and between them. The commercial and business center is located along the part of the block in Jurija Gagarina and Antifasisticke borbe streets. Supermarket is located along the edge zone of the block, along the Jurija Gagarina Street.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The bus and the railway stations will have an access zone, a bus building and platforms. The commercial facilities will be located in three subunits: on site (as separate block subunit) and in business towers.
> 
> The design implies that the entire complex is built in a few stages. The first stage refers to construction of the bus station in the scope which complies with the needs related to relocation of the Sava amphitheatre. It is not necessary to build all the platforms now or all facilities in the complex ground floor or floor. The second stage implies addition to the bus station facilities as well as the implementation of the railway complex in two steps.
> 
> The third stage includes the option of construction of hotel complex, business center and trading and servicing facilities. In the last, the fourth stage, it is necessary to construct the remaining business facilities. Apart from that, if railway platforms are not covered by that time, it will be done in this stage.
> 
> http://www.ekapija.com/website/en/p...lex-in-New-Belgrade-s-Block-42-will-look-like



^^
Film set in question...


----------



## Аполон

*Stadler Flirt 3 Serbian Railways*
 25.03.2015.


----------



## pyramidxx

New trains started to drive?? on which directions??


----------



## Grizzly Bear

Is there any project for Prokop station?


----------



## Baron Hirsch

Construction has begun to turn Prokop Station into the new central station.


----------



## Alex_ZR

pyramidxx said:


> New trains started to drive?? on which directions??


Trains are being still tested, not in use yet.

Meanwhile, so called "railbuses" are still used on Serbian railways, mostly on those in Banat region:


----------



## Theijs

Alex_ZR said:


> Meanwhile, so called "railbuses" are still used on Serbian railways, mostly on those in Banat region:


in the course of 2015 another batch of 27 Metrovagonmash DMUs should arrive.


----------



## ExCaliBourBG

Nobody knows hno:


----------



## CrazySerb

Grizzly Bear said:


> Yes-but how it will look like?


Pretty much same as it looks like today - except for the completion of the most necessary railway infrastructure and some touch-ups for increased passenger comfort as the station assumes its new role.

Unfortunately, the 25 million euro Kuwaiti loan only goes so far.


----------



## Дisiдent

Grizzly Bear said:


> Yes-but how it will look like?


Plan is being made, but i think it will be modest space, and it will take 1/3 of available space on so-called "level 105", rest will wait for private investors.


----------



## Аполон

*Train IC 431 Belgrade(SRB)- Bar(MNE) across the Crni Rzav river on the Zlatibor mountain in Serbia*








*by Mladen Žarković*


----------



## Bez_imena

by moravac


----------



## CrazySerb

Twenty-seven more DMU's from Russia's Metrovagonmash to be delivered to Serbian Railways :cheers:



> *Zeleznice sign annex to the contract on Russian loan of USD 100 m*
> Monday, 04/27/2015|00:37 | Source: Beta
> sr de
> 
> "Zeleznice Srbije" have announced today that "RZD international" signed an annex on Russian loan for modernization of Serbian railways which comprises procurement of 27 new diesel motors and components from Russian producer "Metrovagonmas" totaling USD 100 m.
> 
> The annex was signed by GM of "Zeleznice Srbije" Miroslav Stojcic and "RZD International" Sergey Pavlov.
> 
> The annex will become effective after the approvals of the Ministry of construction, traffic and infrastructure and the Ministry of Finance of Serbia as well as the Ministry of economic development of Russia.
> 
> Apart from that, it is necessary that "Zeleznice Srbije" get banking guarantees from"RZD International" and "Metrovagonmas", as well as to pay deposit of 15% of annex value.


----------



## Opustenooo

Progress on Belgrade - Pancevo:

Thanks to www.beobuild.rs

Source: http://www.beobuild.rs/read.php/745.html

Few photos:











































































































































And ALOT more photos at source.


----------



## Dusko_BG

Sections to be modernized from russian loan.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...feasibility-study-on-the-way.html?channel=523
> 
> *Budapest – Belgrade feasibility study on the way*
> Friday, May 29, 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _A consortium of Főmterv and Ecoroad has won the tender to prepare the detailed feasibility study for building the Hungarian section of the Budapest-Belgrade high-speed line. The study will cost Forints 527m ($US 1.8m)_
> 
> It is proposed to rebuild the 350km line with a 200 km/h operating speed, which would reduce journey times by half. The project is estimated to cost $US 3bn, with 85% of funding provided through Chinese investment


----------



## Аполон

*New Belgrade Railway Station "Prokop" (under construction)*


----------



## Аполон

Feel the breath of old times on "Sargan eight"
Then…..
From Belgrad to Dubrovnik and Zelenika, on 760 mm narrow-gauge track, from 1925 to 1974, through tunnels, over the bridges and through mountain gorges, ran famous train “Cira”, leaving behind itself remarkable smell of steam locomotive smoke…
Now….
We have renewed this part of railway, which represents unique construction work, on the route from station Sargan Vitasi to Mokra Gora, and once again echoes the sound of the wagon and cheerful murmur of tourists on the train on famous “Sargan eight”.
From “Mokra gora” to “Sargan Vitasi” you will pass through 22 tunnels,over five bridges,and overcome the altitude difference of 300 meters, and all that on a total distance of 15,440 meters.
During your ride you will have an opportunity to see from one of five observation platforms all the beauty and richness of the nature of this region.

http://www.zeleznicesrbije.com/acti...anska_osmica/red_voznje_sarganske_osmice.html


----------



## Аполон




----------



## Аполон

DMU 711 Serbian Railways


----------



## Аполон




----------



## Аполон




----------



## Baron Hirsch

I understand these things are in service now as InterCity between Beograd Glavni and Novi Sad? Congrats.


----------



## Аполон

Yes, Belgrade - Novi Sad (Belgrade - Subotica)


----------



## Аполон

*Belgrade*









*Subotica*


----------



## Baron Hirsch

Any experience yet how comfortable these trains are for such rather long rides? Noise, seat comfort, lighting, bumpiness etc.?


----------



## ExCaliBourBG

Flirt or Metrovagonmash?


----------



## aleksandar_s

How about both?


----------



## Robi_damian

Baron Hirsch said:


> Any experience yet how comfortable these trains are for such rather long rides? Noise, seat comfort, lighting, bumpiness etc.?


IMHO Flirts and Talents (as well as Desiros) used on suburban and regional services have horrible seat comfort, decent lighting and so-and-so noise levels (insulation from outside, but the lack of inter-coach barriers makes for noisy interiors). Bumpiness depends on the lines. I guess this applies to Flirts in most countries...


----------



## dimlys1994

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...w/serbian-railway-restructuring-approved.html
> 
> *Serbian railway restructuring approved*
> 10 Jul 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SERBIA: State railway company Železnice Srbije is scheduled to be restructured with effect from July 15, after government approval was granted on July 2 for the implementation of plans which were finalised in May.
> 
> The restructuring will create four businesses: ŽS Holding, ŽS Infrastructure which will be responsible for managing the 3 809 km network, Srbija Voz which will be responsible for passenger operations, and freight operator Srbija Kargo.
> 
> A financial and operational restructuring plan is due to be implemented in September, with the current staff of 16 900 to be reduced by 3 091 through redundancies, retirement or transfer to other state companies
> 
> ...


----------



## ckojam

I thought they had almost 20,000 employees.


----------



## ExCaliBourBG

Test run through Serbia for Belgrade-Bar route :cheers:
https://youtu.be/1hJsfeB4THE


----------



## New Urbanism

Belgrade-Budapest high speed rail,construction works to start soon just in a few months.:cheers:


----------



## Opustenooo

ExCaliBourBG said:


> Test run through Serbia for Belgrade-Bar route :cheers:


----------



## Opustenooo

Prokop station update:

"BEOGRAD CENTAR" 14.08.2015

Source: http://www.beogradcvor.rs
Link: http://www.beogradcvor.rs/aktuelno/74.html


Alot of photos:

http://www.beogradcvor.rs/files/hidroizolacija_ploce_na_koti_105.pdf

http://www.beogradcvor.rs/files/iii_peron.pdf

http://www.beogradcvor.rs/files/iv_peron.pdf

http://www.beogradcvor.rs/files/kontaktna_mreza_priprema_za_montazu_na_3._i_4._kolosek.pdf

http://www.beogradcvor.rs/files/koridor_koloseka_3_i_4.pdf

http://www.beogradcvor.rs/files/postavnica.pdf

http://www.beogradcvor.rs/files/pothodnik_senjacki.pdf

http://www.beogradcvor.rs/files/v_peron.pdf

http://www.beogradcvor.rs/files/vi_peron.pdf


----------



## Theijs

Opustenooo said:


> Prokop station update: "BEOGRAD CENTAR" 14.08.2015


Hvala! Any update of the entrance building and central hall?


----------



## Аполон

*Belgrade - Šid* - *Main railway station Belgrade*











*ICS 547 "Srem" Novi Sad - Belgrade*






*ICS 540 "Palić" Belgrade - Subotica*


----------



## Аполон

*Sremski Karlovci station*








*by Miki Đorđević*


----------



## Gedeon

I see your two Stadlers and raise you our three Končars 










by Antonio Mažar


----------



## ExCaliBourBG

Be free to do that, they never gonna be beautiful like ours :cheers:


----------



## Shenkey

Beograd is properly huge, it should have a network like Munich.


----------



## Аполон

*New railway station in Belgrade "Belgrade Center - Prokop" (under construction)*
23.10.2015.





































more photos http://www.beogradcvor.rs/aktuelno/79.html


----------



## Theijs

Now the PM's of Serbia and BiH have met,
https://euobserver.com/foreign/130969 , I'm wondering about the follow up of the agreed plan to build & start a Beograd - Sarajevo railway connection. Does anyone know a timespan?


----------



## Аполон

*B 431 Belgrade - Bar*










*ISC 512 Belgrade - Prijepolje*



















*photos by Velimir Jagodić*


----------



## CrazySerb

Uzice station, Serbia-produced Fiat cars heading towards the port of Bar...


----------



## Rail_Serbia

Updated text with proposals of Railfan Association, with text in English. I'll try to translete it into Russian, but forgive me in advance for gramatic.


----------



## aleksandar_s

^^ Hmm, I can't seem to access that website.


----------



## CrazySerb

*Agreement on the modernisation of Belgrade-Budapest railway to be signed next week*
November 20, 2015



> Hungary and China have initialed the intergovernmental agreement on the modernisation of the Belgrade-Budapest railway and its signing is expected next week, at the China and Central and Eastern European Countries Summit. The Hungarian government will submit the agreement to the Hungarian parliament for ratification, and carry will out consultations with the European Commission.
> 
> The 166 km long railway line linking Budapest and Belgrade will be modernised, electrified, equipped with new safety devices and also extended with a second track, on which 740-metre-long trains will be able to run. Travel time for passenger trains between the two capitals will decrease to two and a half hours; the suburban railway system will also be modernised. The costs of modernising the Hungarian section will be more than HUF 470 billion (EUR 1.5 bn).
> 
> 85% of the implementation costs will be financed by a Chinese loan, informed Péter Szijjártó, Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade . After the signing of the intergovernmental agreement, negotiations about the financial questions will also come to an end. The aim, he added, is to take into account every aspect of the national economy’s interests.
> 
> According to the MTI press agency, the Chinese party would like to see Chinese-made rolling stock on the Belgrade-Budapest line. The Minister said that he made it clear to his partners that this can only happen if Chinese production bases are set up in Hungary, creating new jobs.
> 
> The Hungarian party expects the planned railway line to be the most competitive means of transport between Greek ports and the Western European market. With this investment, the Minister said, Hungary will exploit its geographical location and take another step towards being a relevant European section of the One Belt, One Road strategy: the road of Chinese economic expansion.


----------



## Baron Hirsch

Great news. High time for this terrain-wise very easy line to be done. And finally we will see whether the Chinese can turn the EU's lame state of international railways into something more worthy of the 21st century. 
One correction to the news above though: 166 km is the Hungarian part of the line, the overall distance is about twice that.


----------



## Аполон

Belgrade - Prijepolje


----------



## Аполон

*New railway station in Belgrade "Belgrade Center - Prokop" (under construction)*
30.11.2015.











http://www.beogradcvor.rs/aktuelno/85.html

04.12.2015.


----------



## Аполон

New railway station in Belgrade "Belgrade Center - Prokop" (under construction)
30.11.2015.
































































more photos: https://flic.kr/s/aHskqBPvAN


----------



## 8166UY

Impressive project for such a small country which isn't bulking with oil money.


----------



## CrazySerb

Yeah, that's why it only took us 40 years


----------



## CrazySerb

Next stage of realization of billion-dollar Russian loan for Serbian Railways ... segment of iconic Belgrade-Bar railway will be overhauled starting Spring 2016.

Also, first two of 27 new Russian-built DMU's will begin arriving next week.



> *Annex to agreement on Russian loan for Serbian railways signed - Works kick off March 2016*
> 
> Thursday, 12/10/2015|13:06 | Source: Beta
> 
> Representatives of the newly formed company Infrastruktura zeleznice Srbije and Russia's RZD International signed today in Belgrade an annex to the agreement on the Russian loan for the modernization of Serbian railways, which entails the reconstruction of 77.6-kilometer stretch between Resnik and Valjevo on the Belgrade-Bar railroad.
> 
> Works valued at about USD 80 million will kick off March 2016 and last for 14 months.
> 
> The agreement on the Russian loan totaling USD 800 million was signed January 2013. Proceeds of this loan will be spent on the modernization of electrification of the Belgrade-Pancevo railroad, renovation of six railroad stretches on Corridor X in a total length of 111 kilometers, procurement of new diesel engine trains, construction of the Valjevo-Loznica railroad, and the reconstruction of the Serbian arm of the Belgrade-Bar railroad.


----------



## TrueBulgarian

Аполон;129141348 said:


>


Is it a visual illusion or is the curve really that large? How would signalling work? Reminds me of Brussels Centraal, where they have designated staff specifically dealing with this for every stopping train.


----------



## Аполон

Visual illusion  

photo from air


----------



## Аполон

*Serbia to set up project development company for Belgrade-Budapest rail modernisation*











The Serbian government plans to set up a project development company for Belgrade-Budapest rail modernisation, informs Novosti. The new company will be separate for “Serbian Railways” holding company and will only deal with the preparation and implementation of this major project including the reconstruction of the Belgrade – Budapest railway and the construction of a second track for mixed traffic of passenger and freight trains, for speeds of up to 200 km/h. The total value of the project for the Serbian section is estimated at EUR 900 million. 

Modernisation works are expected to be launched first on Stara Pazova – Novi Sad section, followed by works on Belgrade – Stara Pazova and Novi Sad – Subotica – Hungarian Border (Kelebia) sections.

The Belgrade -Stara Pazova-Novi Sad-Subotica-Hungarian border (Kelebia) railway line was built in 1883 as a single-track railway line. Currently, both the superstructure and substructure are worn out, restricting speed to 71km/h and in seven locations at 20/30 km/h.


----------



## CrazySerb

First of the new 27 DMU trainsets from Russia's Metrovagonmash Holdings:


----------



## Robi_damian

^^ Bela Crkva? Are they now reopening some of the Vojvodina lines that were abandoned in decades past?


----------



## Theijs

Robi_damian said:


> ^^ Bela Crkva? Are they now reopening some of the Vojvodina lines that were abandoned in decades past?


Bela Crkva was this year a summer only service, during the weekend.


----------



## Аполон

*New Railway station Belgrade Center "Prokop" 15.12.2015. (under construction)*











1. http://www.beogradcvor.rs/files/foto-galerija_izvodjenja_radova_2_15.12.2015.pdf

2. http://www.beogradcvor.rs/files/foto-galerija_izvodjenja_radova_1_15.12.2015.pdf


----------



## nachalnik

Regarding Beograd Centar:
When will the station become fully operational? Will then all trains go there instead of using the current central station?
How will the new station be integrated into the urban public transport network?
The current station is close to downtown and well connected by tramways and busses, but the new Beograd Centar station is in the middle of nowhere - so what will be the benefits for rail passengers?


----------



## Singidunum

Belgrade-Budapest railway reconstruction funded by China began today (actual works will probably start in 2-3 months)


----------



## Robi_damian

It will not be full HSR though, no?

EDIT: I checked and it seems to be 200. Told ya full HSR does not make economical sense. Nevertheless, even an upgrade to 200 (if engines and coaches are available and signalling is upgraded) is impressive. It would be a 90 minute journey to Subotica (with stops) and possibly just 4 hours to Budapest.


----------



## Singidunum

By Serbian standards it will be Maglev  But cutting down from 9 hours to 2.5 hours will be a major improvement. For this distance if they went for Chinese speeds it would have meant that the trip would take 1.5 hours but that hour of difference would be to insignificant to justify the costs, simply after certain speeds the infrastructure required is totally different and much more expensive.


----------



## Singidunum

Robi_damian said:


> It will not be full HSR though, no?
> 
> EDIT: I checked and it seems to be 200. Told ya full HSR does not make economical sense. Nevertheless, even an upgrade to 200 (if engines and coaches are available and signalling is upgraded) is impressive. It would be a 90 minute journey to Subotica (with stops) and possibly just 4 hours to Budapest.


It won't be 200 on all sections but 160 on some and 200 on other. And we don't know what will happen in Hungary, I think there is still a debate whether the international corridor should be moved and the upgrade done on Budapest-Kecskemet-Szeged railway (which would frankly make more sense) instead of the current Budapest-middle-of-nowhere-Kelebia corridor. They could go for a higher speed.

The aim is not 4 hours to Budapest but 2.5 hours.


----------



## Robi_damian

Singidunum said:


> It won't be 200 on all sections but 160 on some and 200 on other. And we don't know what will happen in Hungary, I think there is still a debate whether the international corridor should be moved and the upgrade done on Budapest-Kecskemet-Szeged railway (which would frankly make more sense) instead of the current Budapest-middle-of-nowhere-Kelebia corridor. They could go for a higher speed.
> 
> The aim is not 4 hours to Budapest but 2.5 hours.


I see, I was thinking of 4 hours includinb border times and assuming that there would be several intermediate stops.

Anyway, 200 is good indeed, in Romania despite EU investments NO section has been upgraded to more than 200, even the completely straight line from Bucharest to Constanta.

And yes, I never thought about it, but the rerouting through Kecskemet and Szeged would only add some 25-30 km to the line, depending on them moving Szeged station, of course...


----------



## Singidunum

Border controls would be changed entirely and will be made to look like those between Russia and Finland likely (control done on board, train not slowing down).










Interestingly enough the 200 sections will not be part of this job but the ongoing reconstruction done by RZhD. I think it's the section Belgrade-Novi Sad


----------



## Gedeon

I bet Serbia will enter EU (and maybe even Schengen) before this project is fully completed. Especially Hungarians don't seem too eager.


----------



## Singidunum

Gedeon said:


> I bet Serbia will enter EU (and maybe even Schengen) before this project is fully completed. Especially Hungarians don't seem too eager.


Lol, it's a Hungarian proposal!





































and it will be finished in 2017 by which Serbia will not enter the EU.


----------



## Gedeon

Ok, we'll see 

Wanna take a bet that it won't be finished by the end of 2017? No, let's make that 2018 at least.


----------



## Singidunum

If it were up to Serbs I'd say 2117 would be the best bet but since none of the Chinese led infrastructure projects in Serbia had any delays I have no reason to doubt this one will have either.


----------



## Dusko_BG

The last time I took ''Ivo Andric'' train on Budapest-Belgrade
route just three passengers crossed the border so border control will not be a problem


----------



## ExCaliBourBG

413/417 - 033/034 by Milos Jovic, on Flickr
413/417 by Milos Jovic, on Flickr
413/417 Resnik by Milos Jovic, on Flickr


----------



## Singidunum

First phase of the construction of the new Central Railway Station in Belgrade is finished


----------



## suasion

Looks a bit subwayey

I hope later developments give it the appearance of a Central Station


----------



## Singidunum

This is the platform part. If you think there will be a neoclassical dome structure, there won't be. The next phase is to build a station building with shopping mall above platforms.


----------



## Robi_damian

When will it replace the old Beograd station?


----------



## Singidunum

For the full decommission of the old railway there needs to be a new bridge near Vinca.


----------



## Дisiдent




----------



## suasion

> You can see the year written on the picture...


I see humour is not your strongest point.


----------



## ExCaliBourBG

Neither yours.


----------



## KOSTYK

suasion said:


> I see humour is not your strongest point.


Look who is speakinghno:


----------



## Theijs

Serbian media about Prokop railway station: http://rs.n1info.com/a130657/Biznis/Prokop-nije-zavrsen.html


----------



## ExCaliBourBG

N1 isn't really serbian media, it is pure propaganda machine and this is what they are supposed to do. No one said that Prokop is finished and fully operational, they just added few tracks and directed one train line NS-BG to there. I'm not defending SNS or PM Vucic (whose appearance at the "opening" was unnecessary, but elections are coming), so i would not consider N1 valid media for this thread.


----------



## aleksandar_s

ExCaliBourBG said:


> PM Vucic (whose appearance at the "opening" was unnecessary, but elections are coming), so i would not consider N1 valid media for this thread.


Vucic would attend the opening of an envelope.


----------



## CrazySerb

Over 2 billion euros in rail infra. projects underway...



> *MIHAJLOVIC: We are making modern railway, projects total EUR 2,5 billion*
> Wednesday, 01/27/2016|15:01 | Source: Tanjug
> sr de
> Zorana Mihajlovic
> VP of the Government and the minister of construction, traffic and infrastructure, Zorana Mihajlovic, has opened today in Belgrade founders' conference of the Association for railway innovation in SEE (SEESARI) and said that Serbia is making a modern railway and that the value of current projects on railway is almost EUR 2,5 billion.
> 
> Founders' conference was attended by 70 participants from 14 countries, almost 40 railway companies, organizations and institutions.
> 
> - Existing project value is more than EUR 1,5 billion and with the Belgrade-Budapset railway construction almost a billion more and our task is to think about innovations we can implement- Mihajlovic said to journalists.
> 
> SEESARI conference is organized by the International Railway Union (UIC), Zeleznice Srbije a.d.and Prometni institut Ljubljana.


----------



## ExCaliBourBG

413/417 - 010/011 by Milos Jovic, on Flickr


----------



## ExCaliBourBG

Best railway videos from Serbia on YouTube :cheers:


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...ns-upgrade-of-line-to-greece.html?channel=524
> 
> *Serbia begins upgrade of line to Greece*
> Wednesday, April 20, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _SERBIAN Railways (ZS) launched a modernisation project on the Nis - Presevo line, part of Corridor 10 between Austria and Greece, on April 18_
> 
> The works will be carried out in two stages. The first covers the upgrade of the Vranjska Banja - Ristovac (17.7km) and Bujanovac – Bukurevac (13.7km) sections of the line with work set to conclude in September. During the upgrade, regional train traffic will be limited while international trains to and from Macedonia and Greece will be cancelled
> 
> ...


----------



## Opustenooo

^^



snoopdog said:


> ПОЧЕТАК РАДОВА НА РЕКОНСТРУКЦИЈИ ЈУЖНИХ ДЕОНИЦА ЖEЛ. КОРИДОРА X
> Ажурирано: пре 3 ч.
> Од понедељка, 18. априла од 07.00 часова, почињу радови на реконструкцији и модернизацији три „Јужне“ деонице железничког Коридора X, кроз нашу земљу. Реконструкција је дефинисана Анексом 2.2 основног Уговора о руском државном кредиту, вредности 26,4 милиона долара. Укупна дужина све три деонице је 46 километара и то су:
> - Винарци – Ђорђево ( 15 км ),
> - Врањска Бања – Ристовац ( 17,7 км) и
> - Бујановац – Букаревац ( 13,7 км ).
> Динамиком извођења радова, предвиђено је да исти почну истовремено на две деонице: Врањска Бања – Ристовац и Бујановац – Букаревац. Извођач радова је „РЖД Интернешнл“ са својим подизвођачима. Са радовима на трећој деоници Винарци – Ђорђево, почеће се након завршетка на поменуте две деонице.
> Прва фаза радова обухвата временски период од априла до јуна 2016. године, а друга фаза обухвата временски период од септембра 2016. године до априла/маја 2017. године, када се очекује коначни завршетак радова на „Јужним“ деоницама.
> У периоду од јуна до септембра 2016. године, обављаће се само радови који не захтевају обуставу железничког саобраћаја и то у станицама Лесковац, Врањска Бања, Врање, Бујановац и Букаревац.
> Реконструкција обухвата радове на доњем и горњем строју, одводњавање пруге, сигнално – сигурносним и телекомуникационим постројењима и контактној мрежи, који се раде након грађевинских радова на колосеку.
> 
> O свим изменама у саобраћају возова, корисници услуга ће бити благовремено обавештени.





snoopdog said:


> https://www.facebook.com/1176158962394421/videos/1265413580135625/





snoopdog said:


> Кран поставља шинска поља
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/1176158962394421/videos/1268207143189602/





snoopdog said:


> 22. АПРИЛ 2016.г. - РИСТОВАЦ
> Обилазак радова из "Мушице" (пружно возило за одржавање контактне мреже)
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/1176158962394421/videos/1268206066523043/





snoopdog said:


> 22. АПРИЛ 2016.г. - РИСТОВАЦ
> Отпремање грађевинске механизације из станице Ристовац до места извођења радова
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/1176158962394421/videos/1268204633189853/


----------



## Opustenooo

From beobuild.rs about Belgrade-Pančevo:
With alot of photos

source: http://beobuild.rs/do-pančeva-na-dva-koloseka-p2610.html


----------



## Аполон




----------



## Аполон

*Belgrade - Schwarzach*









*Regio express Belgrade - Užice, Belgrade - Novi Sad*









*ICS Belgrade - Subotica, ICS Belgrade - Kraljevo* (ICS-InterCitySerbia)









*Belgrade - Zrenjanin*


----------



## CrazySerb

The joys of train travel in Serbia...


----------



## Baron Hirsch

I agree. Beograd Glavni is probably the main station with the least distance between coffee tables and train doors I can think of. Putting down your coffee cup 2 minutes before departure and jumping onto your train in time is no problem here. A shame if it really disappears for the rather anonymous and so far lifeless station of Beograd Centar.


----------



## Robi_damian

^^ Those EMUs look lik suburban designs. Why are they on InterCity trains? Don´t they become uncomfortable for journeys over 1 hour.


----------



## Dusko_BG

These serbian EMU are for regional traffic but they do all sorts of services,
regional, inter regional and intercity service. They go up to 7 hours on regional
service from Belgrade to the border with Montenegro for exemple. 
That is because we don't haveother material, we have just
a few passenger cars and locomotives due the lack of any maintenance.


----------



## tjrgx

*Line provides link between China and the EU*


----------



## Alex_ZR

*Beograd Dunav* (Belgrade Danube) station










Trains to Zrenjanin and Vršac depart from this platform...

Diesel train to Zrenjanin


----------



## Theijs

CrazySerb said:


> Over 2 billion euros in rail infra. projects underway...
> 
> - Existing project value is more than EUR 1,5 billion and with the Belgrade-Budapset railway construction almost a billion more and our task is to think about innovations we can implement- Mihajlovic said to journalists.


Are all feasibility studies done?

I just read that a construction agreement has been signed for doubling the 43 km section Novi Sad -Stara Pazova and increase speed limit to 200 km/h. Work will commence in early 2017, last 52 weeks (over 4 years). It will take a while before Budapest - Beograd line is finished.


----------



## Smart City

We are still waiting for China to adopt financinal construction,as well as some changes with project.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...rbian-reconstruction-project.html?channel=531
> 
> *RZD starts work on Serbian upgrading project*
> Tuesday, October 18, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _RUSSIAN Railways (RZD) International started work on October 17 on a $US 38m project to reconstruct the Vinarci - Dzordzevo line in Serbia, which is the last of the three southern sections of TEN-T Corridor X to be reconstructed by RZD_
> 
> The work entails the replacement of 15km of track subgrade and superstructure and five switches, the reconstruction of 11 crossings, and the renovation of overhead electrification, signalling and telecommunications
> 
> ...


----------



## Smart City

Excellent work from Ržd ,so professional.








https://www.google.rs/url?sa=i&rct=...DtojcvWt43JgC2878A2C2nWQ&ust=1476949289677104








https://www.google.rs/url?sa=i&rct=...QhupkUrjgBlVQ5Sl7qClWdKw&ust=1476949460409910


----------



## Theijs

Smart City said:


> Excellent work from Ržd ,so professional.



Looking forward to the moment that we can travel with an average of 100 km/h over the Serbian TEN-T corridors. Until that time: first see see, than believe.


----------



## Smart City

Well Rzd already did finalized over 60%of reconstruction task,at the moment there's on going work on Belgrade- Valjevo railroad and later to Montenegro,and beging on section Belgrade Novi sad.TENT railroads belongs to coal power plant and ownership as i recall.They also invested some money to reconstruction.


----------



## Arnorian

Russia-bought DMU on the Kraljevo-Kosovska Mitrovica railway passing under the medieval Maglič fortress.


https://www.facebook.com/ZSslike/

location: https://goo.gl/maps/qhjoUnjXWFQ2


----------



## dimlys1994

From Railway Gazette

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...hinese-locomotives-for-serbia-rolled-out.html

*Chinese locomotives for Serbia rolled out*
09 Jan 2017




























SERBIA: Two electric locomotives which the state electricity generator ordered last year have been rolled out at CRRC Zhuzhou’s plant in China. The contract was awarded following an international tender and was the first rolling stock order won by CRRC in Serbia.

The 7 MW locomotives have a maximum speed of 140 km/h, and according the manufacturer meet EU TSI standards

...


----------



## roaddor

Are there any railway segments currently being reconstructed by RZD south of Leskovac towards Preshevo?


----------



## Baron Hirsch

Yes, in fact that whole section of track is down due to reconstruction, international train travel being suspended.


----------



## CrazySerb

The train's interior has been decorated with copies of frescoes found in UNESCO-listed Serbian Orthodox monasteries in Kosovo...


----------



## Theijs

It's a pity that ZS and KosRail don't work together. Now there are works carried out between Nis and Presevo, the trains Beograd - Skopje - Thessaloniki could have been redirected via Kraljevo and Kosovo Polje / Füshe Kosovo like in the past: http://www.vagonweb.cz/razeni/vlak.php?zeme=JZ&cislo=291&nazev=Akropolis&rok=1988&lang=en IMHO a better solution than simply axing trains.


----------



## TUR_

Theijs said:


> It's a pity that ZS and KosRail don't work together. Now there are works carried out between Nis and Presevo, the trains Beograd - Skopje - Thessaloniki could have been redirected via Kraljevo and Kosovo Polje / Füshe Kosovo like in the past: http://www.vagonweb.cz/razeni/vlak.php?zeme=JZ&cislo=291&nazev=Akropolis&rok=1988&lang=en IMHO a better solution than simply axing trains.


Serbian train via Kosovo? mission impossible :nuts: 

Just look here: http://www.serbianrailways.com/syst...iewsingle/_params/newsplus_news_id/73323.html 

It will be possible if albanians return Kosovo and Metohija territory (which they stole with NATO accompaniment at 1999) to Serbia. 

I want to travel between Nis and Skopje in March. Does modernization will be complete at this time?


----------



## Theijs

TUR_ said:


> I want to travel between Nis and Skopje in March. Does modernization will be complete at this time?


Nope, reconstruction lasts until May/June.

Refurbished Gosa coaches of ZS/Serbia Voz: http://balkanrailwaynews.blogspot.nl/2017/01/srbija-remontovani-putnicki-vagoni.html?m=1


----------



## Robertkc

Theijs said:


> Nope, reconstruction lasts until May/June.


Once the line re-opens, how much shorter will the travel time between Skopje and Belgrade be? If I recall correctly, prior to the closure of the line it was a little over 8 hours?


----------



## Dusko_BG

Probably it will be almost the same travel time as before the works


----------



## Nexis

*4K CABVIEW Sid - Beograd + speed and route info*


----------



## Theijs

A documentary about the Loznnica - Valjevo stretch has been made in German language: https://www.ard-wien.de/2017/03/13/serbien-verfluchte-bahnstrecke/


----------



## Dusko_BG




----------



## Smart City

Considering Serbia it is alredy happen,on begining of may construction work will begun.Chinese party accepted to construct railroad on european 
technical standards, so theres no problem at all.


----------



## Nexis

Night Cab Ride EMU Stadler FLIRT 3 - Serbian Railways [Novi Sad - Belgrade] 120km/h [4K]


----------



## Singidunum




----------



## Theijs

A nice photo from the road infrastructure forum:


CrazySerb said:


> Just a nice pic for the end....Belgrade's bridges (Ada Bridge not seen)
> 
> Note the massive Belgrade Waterfront development (former rail yards)


----------



## Qtya

Procurement for the upgrading of the Soroksár (incl.) — Kelebia (country border) section (EPC contract, Design&Build) of the Budapest-Begrade railway line was launched yesterda.

http://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:475887-2017:TEXT:HU:HTML&src=0


----------



## nachalnik

Qtya said:


> Procurement for the upgrading of the Soroksár (incl.) — Kelebia (country border) section (EPC contract, Design&Build) of the Budapest-Begrade railway line was launched yesterda.
> 
> http://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:475887-2017:TEXT:HU:HTML&src=0



The link you gave seems to contain a tender by BKV (Budapest city transit company) for new busses...

Anyway, a posting concerning a tender for the Hungarian part of the railway line Budapest - Belghrade would be more suitable in the Hungary-thread, IMHO.


----------



## Bez_imena




----------



## CrazySerb

*Stara Pazova – Novi Sad funding agreement*
17 Dec 2017



> RZD International has been working on the upgrading of Corridor X in Serbia for several years.
> 
> SERBIA: Infrastructure manager Infrastruktura Železnice Srbije and RZD International have signed an agreement releasing further funding for work on the Beograd – Budapest upgrading project.
> 
> Signed by IŽS CEO Miroljub Jevtić and RZD International CEO Sergey Pavlov, Annexe 3.2 of the accord allocates funding from a US$800m Russian loan agreed in 2013 towards the upgrading and double-tracking of the 40·4 km Stara Pazova – Novi Sad line. Expected to cost US$247·9m, the upgrading project is scheduled to get underway in the first quarter of 2018.
> 
> As part of the double-tracking project, RZD International will build three viaducts and 19 bridges and the 1 100 m long Čortanovci tunnel. A new station will be constructed at Beška, while the existing stations at Sremski Karlovci, Indjija and Petrovaradin are to be modernised.
> 
> IŽS had previously signed an agreement covering construction of the tunnel. This is costed at US$350m, of which 75% will be financed from the Russian loan and 15% by the Serbian state budget. Work began on September 18 and the tunnel is due for completion by early 2022.
> 
> The remainder of the Russian loan has been used to fund modernisation work on the Beograd – Pančevo line, six sections of trans-European Corridor X and the Serbian part of the Beograd – Bar line, as well as the purchase of 27 DMUs from Metrovagonmash which had all been delivered by the end of 2016.
> 
> 
> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/.../stara-pazova-novi-sad-funding-agreement.html


----------



## Rail_Serbia

*PETITION: MAIN RAILWAY STATION MUST STAY IN THE CENTER OF BELGRADE*

Link to main article.
Link zo the petition



> PETITION: MAIN RAILWAY STATION MUST STAY IN THE CENTER OF BELGRADE[/B]
> 
> *We demand from authorities in Belgrade and Serbia to keep the main passenger train station in the historic, administrative, culture, education and touristic center of Belgrade. By that, we mean the remainder of the present Railway Station on Sava Square, in relation to which Belgrade was developing as a capital and one of the most important metropolises in Southeast Europe.
> *
> In relation to the Railway Station was developed street and tram networks, craft and shopping districts, hotels, most prestigious secondary schools (Nikola Tesla, Mathematical and Philological Gymnasium), central buildings of state importance, public transport nodes, most of the embassies, or everything from which the new station in Prokop("Belgrade Center") is too far away. The relocation the majority of main raillines to unfinished station "Belgrade Center" in Prokop already results in few times lower ridership, even on reconstructed track to Valjevo and Užice! After reconstruction, travel time by trains is shorter than by bus. But location very modestly served by public transport, and outside of any major point which atract the passengers results in historically the lowest ridership!
> 
> As a reason for moving the majority of trains from railway station in the center of Belgrade from December 10th 2017, with plan to remove few remaining trains until the end of 2018 is the project "Belgrade Waterfront". In the countries of the first and second world, and even in third world countries that have a vision of development, the investors who really are that, consider the locations near the active passenger railway stations as the most attractive for high investment! The reason is that the railway is the only transport system that has the technical capabilities to transport a large number of people from large distances quickly, economically and directly, while occupying a minimum surface area. After removing unused warehouses, barns, bus parking lots, concrete bases around main railway station, it is completely clear how is little part of the land which is occupied by the passenger rail in the Sava Amphitheater development zone.
> 
> *Economically reasonable governments of the world, when investing in new large railway stations like Prokop, do so to increase capacity and form new development zones. Never to break the development related to the location of old railway stations, and never give that for private construction on several hectares, how many functional passenger stations they use in the city center. *There are cases in the world when the conversion of these few hectares is desired, and then such railway stations become underground, remaining in the same place.


Feel free to ask additional questions.


----------



## Smart City

Petition has rejected,it s a political matter .City elections on march 2018.


----------



## Theijs

Smart City said:


> Petition has rejected,it s a political matter .City elections on march 2018.


Is there any political party that wants Beograd Glavni to remain open for railway traffic?


----------



## Smart City

I don't think it is possible right now,because all rail passengers traffic form june wiil be transfer to Beograd center/Prokop or Belgrade new railway junction,besides Belgrade waterfront project is on going.
It is too late for any political party to changes current situation,now they turn to future metro project on that area.
Personly i im against this petition, because the way it's published after all being said and done and transfer of traffic over.It's is legaly illiterate,they adress to the public authorities too late when everything is over, with prefix "must",demand",especially they publish it before they even sent it to the authorities even if legally procedure requierd.


----------



## Theijs

Smart City said:


> I don't think it is possible right now,because all rail passengers traffic form june wiil be transfer to Beograd center/Prokop or Belgrade new railway junction.


Has the closure of Glavni starting from June (summer timetable) somewhere been publicly announced?
Any clue if a track remains available for cargo or occasional heritage trips?


----------



## Rail_Serbia

Theijs said:


> Is there any political party that wants Beograd Glavni to remain open for railway traffic?


No, there is not! 

Petition is in proces of collecting signatures. My previous post I wrote in present tense, which give to reader an art freedom to think that it is in past or future:nuts:

The railway station in the center is human and civilization value, especially considering the all development oriented to that railway station. 

In Praha, when somobody tried the same with Masarikovy Nadražy, there was protests, and station stayed. 

In Istanbul, there was also demonstrations because of plan to close Haydarpasa and Sirkesi train stations after opening the Marmaray. Turkish State Railways TCDD sued the goverment and won. 

In Lagos, there was a plan to simple replace existing track with metro line. But again, Nigerian Railways won. Now, we will see how will Lagos find the solution for integral planning, without bad compromises. 

I have made a blogpost with very detail explanations of everything, for people who do not speek Serbian, and have never been in Belgrade.












> *The broader and narrower center of Belgrade is bordered using black.* It is the place of the largest number of embassies, hotels, hostels, theaters, museums and other tourist attractions, administrative buildings of state institutions, the most important specialized high schools, faculties specialized trade and craft shops... Almost everything what makes Belgrade the capital and metropolis. It is also a zone in which every working day in peak hours almost all streets are congested with automobile traffic, parking is limited in time, it is charged, and in spite of that, demand for parking places is higher than supply. According to official statistics, the only two railway stations in the central zone on the *line marked in red*, Karađorđev Park and Vukov Spomenik, generate about 60% of all movements on that line. Those two are metro-like stations with only two tracks and central platform, made for regional suburban trains only. The reason why Prokop is not covered by a circular line that signifies a broader center is that between these two there is a gorge in which the highway is. The basic requirement that Prokop functionally become part of a wider center is to make a direct pedestrian connection with a very slight climb between the ridge at the periphery of the wider center and the middle of the station, about 30 meters above the bottom of the gorge. Then Belgrade Center/ Prokop would directly serve the southern part of the wider center. That is the district of clinics and medical faculties. Unfortunately, there are no such links in official plans, and that is just one of parodoxis in planning of Prokop.
> 
> *Business center is marked with a green circle.* It is part of Belgrade called Novi Beograd, which began to build before the Second World War on the former swamp. At the beginning of the development, that was a "sleeping district" without any events or atractions. But after the introduction of the tram in 1984, started the serious development of the hotels and commercial facilities. Especially after 2000, numerous companies are raising the business buildings and the largest shopping malls. The reason is very well planned area for construction, large and equiped lots, where investors have favorable conditions to build large-scale objects.
> 
> Insofar, the blue line on the map of the suburban railroad is out of logic. The red line does not use even half the capacity of the two-track railway either in the center of Belgrade or in New Belgrade. Fortunately, at the end of 2017, the plan to use Beograd Center/Prokop as the end point of bllue line is canceled, and from March 2018 it will share a common route with red through the eastern part of the center of Belgrade.
> 
> *Finally, a purple color is marked infrastructure, which current decision makers want to abolish for a couple of hectares of land more for private construction. Tetragon is the Belgrade Main Station (Beograd Glavna).* The new railway line with the railway station Prokop/Belgrade Center was designed during the 1960s as an upgraiding of the Old Railway node, which was then at the limit of congestion. In all plans, from then until 2014, it is planned that the New Railway Node will take IC and suburban trains, and that from the old railway station, regional trains and part of suburban ones will be taken. Since the last decade, the only railway station in downtown Belgrade is left to ruin, and also the track to it. it seems as if it was deliberately planned that the railroad would go to oblivion to grab the land without resistance. Paradoxaly, because in all other countries of Europe, the proximity of big railway station is the biggest adventage for investors who realy are! In public there are three main spins:
> - "Railway is a chain, which don't give to city the opportunity to spread out near rivers".
> - "Passenger railway make aproximetely 100ha of land in the center of Belgrade unusable." (Now, when everything is demolished exept really needed for passenger rail, it is clear that that is only approximatly 6ha of 100ha.)
> - "The reason for building the New Railway Noad is to fully replace the Old Railway Node".
> ***


Full article is on the next link. 

It is not the first and the last time in that crazy world that someone want to demolish everything on the way to his/her insane idee fix. We would like to know more about international experince with those things.


----------



## Theijs

Rail_Serbia said:


> No, there is nothing publicly announced.
> 
> 
> 
> Full article is on the next link.
> 
> 
> 
> It is not the first and the last time in that crazy world that someone want to demolish everything on the way to his/her insane idee fix. We would like to know more about international experince with those things.


Well, it’s all about the money, isn’t it?
Balkans are no exception. 
Public authorities and politicians in the West of Europe are more aware of the infrastructure needs, in relation to demographic situation and economic development. Otherwise the negative consequences lead to a financial damage that is too big for a smooth running economy, and politicians won’t be re-elected.
So: impact assessments, a financial business case etc. are performed before decisions with big impact are taken.

In Slavic countries I noticed a lack of transparency and (as a result?) a more fatalistic attitude towards life, so is the case with the (side effects of) Belgrade Waterfront.


----------



## kolumbus

Prokop is not bad idea, but without metro it's more a complication than help. Its pretty obvious this station is unfinished. Railway building doesn't exist, when they plan to finish it ? When they plan to build metro ?

Pretty similar project is new Main station in Vienna, but of course they didn't destroy Westbahnof. General idea of new main stations in Europe is one big, not terminal, station in a capital as a central hub. It allows you to avoid (especially international) traffic splitted across "east, west, south" terminal stations. That's heritage form 19th century, when railways was built that way, that in capital cities was end of railways in terminal station.


----------



## Smart City

Theijs said:


> In Slavic countries I noticed a lack of transparency and (as a result?) a more fatalistic attitude towards life, so is the case with the (side effects of) Belgrade Waterfront.


Well tihis more a political statment i disagree, it 's a generalising words.Slavic countries are diiffrent in many ways; economically,mentality etc.north and south ,east and west.Slavic culture extends trough whole of europe.When we talk about resembles,it is launguage,letter cyrilic,custom of offering food and drinks,hospitallity,names etc.a More fatalistic attitude towards life? Well it is more bravery ,the ability to endure.And don't forgett that for decades slavic countries were under hursh communist rules ,nowdays we still have recidives toward comprehend westren way of doing bussines including transparecy but i ts not a slavic thing more a communist legacy.
Belgrade Waterfront is a good project for economy growth,new jobs ,material industry,modernasing Belgrade etc.Of course political opposition don't like it ,like on every other country they won't give it applause.


----------



## Smart City

kolumbus said:


> Prokop is not bad idea, but without metro it's more a complication than help. Its pretty obvious this station is unfinished. Railway building doesn't exist, when they plan to finish it ? When they plan to build metro ?


Prokop and Belgrade junction is and was a progressive idea when was started,metro was planned and there is even exsisting metro station builded under the Prokop station.But good thing is that City rail "BG Voz"is running trough station on two directions to wider center and new Belgarde so it is alredy connected and with future main Belgrade bus station on New Belgrade side,but it is not enough.
Ministry for infrustructure Z.MIhajlovic stated that construction works for Prokop railway station building starts on April 2018.
Construction works for metro to start on 2020,line 1 but we stiil don t know how it reflects on Prokop station.








Project Prokop station








Now it i's a funny tourist attraction,"oh ,where is station building disappeared ?"


----------



## Theijs

Smart City said:


> Belgrade Waterfront is a good project for economy growth,new jobs ,material industry,modernasing Belgrade etc.


My point is that I’m missing the ratio here.
Does giving up Glavni match with the other (planned) developments?
Off course BW is an economic incentive, but how should all people arrive in time at their work?

I don’t read anywhere that Belgrade City Rail will continue to drive to Glavni...

And Wien Hbf... they merged two stations in the heart of Vienna into one. The Austrian authorities did not take away (international) trains from the heart of the (economic) center. So don’t compare an apple with a peer.


----------



## Smart City

Theijs said:


> My point is that I’m missing the ratio here.
> Does giving up Glavni match with the other (planned) developments?
> , but how should all people arrive in time at their work?
> .


Metro M1 is planned trough Belgrade waterfront under Savska street just below Glavna station,construction work to start on 2020.French Egis project.
Prokop new railway station will take all the traffic,construction works to start on April 2018.


----------



## Rail_Serbia

When the Prokop was planned, the idea was:

1) Prokop
- IC trains in Yugoslavia
- International trains
- Regional trains
And no single train terminate there (now, all trains are terminating in Prokop exept international) 

2) Belgrade Main Station (Beograd glavna) 
- Regional trains
- Suburban trains
And, there was plan to make 2,5km long tunnel below Square of Republics and Dorćol to Belgrade Danube (station for trains to Banat). That was for north-south arteria for RER like system, and also, east-west RER like system was planned, with location of Belgrade Main station as the hart of the system. There was plan that some regional trains in this system will go up to 100km from Belgrade to Novi Sad, Valjevo, Ruma, Zrenjanin, Vršac, Smederevo, Požarevac, Velika Plana, covering almost half of the Serbia.

Serving by metro in older plans: 
1) Zemun station: M5, east-west arterial corridore for RER like system.
2) Novi Beograd rail station: M3, M5
3) Belgrade Center/Prokop: M2, M4
4) Rakovica station: north-south arterial corridor for RER like system
5) Belgrade Main station: the hart of the RER like system.
6) Belgrade Danube (Beograd Dunav): north south arterial corridore for RER like System
7) Vukov Spomenik underground 2 track station: M1, M3
The Prokop and Vukov Spom

Present plans: 
1) No any rail station linked with metro network. even with the new Main Coach Station.
2) Reducing capacity for development of RER like system. 

@Theijs

About fatalistic attitude toward life in slavic countries, and full awareness about the consequences is not true at all. The situation depend from country to country, and from time to time. 

For instance, in Serbia during 1990-ies there was very strong spirit of resistance, people accepted to be heavy injured or dead on demonstartions, also jurnalist feel much more free to write what they want in the ages with a lot of killed jurnalists... Also in WWII, Serbians have one of the most active movement of resistent, and in present, atmosphere in Serbia is not a fatalism, more dissapointment to big political leaders who betray them.

The PR's, who are representatives of small part of population who have temporary benefits, don't see and don't want to see farder of his/her yard and TV are always present. Even on Skyscrapercity. 

Like someone who spend some life time on East and West both (Serbia & Netherlands), I can see that west is not so free, democratic, racional and open-minded part of world at all. No any single big railway station in Netherlands is closed. No any single big train station is "obstacle", just opposite make those locations the most atractive. But all transit system is setted like it has serving of dense development zones like only purpose! Railways in Serbia are victims of lobies in political parties with no freedom for business, no awareness of opportunities in business sector which railways are giving. But there is still free trade of bus transport, competition which give to people better quality and lover prices. Even for subsidiesed urban/suburban bus lines, there is very strong concern of considering improvements with listening of public oppinions, but that is topic we can extend on topic in Subway and Urban Transport section. I have found out that in the Netherlands in real estate sector is some kind of mafia, which is using the lawyers instead of guns with same or better results. For example, in Utrecht they demolished a lot of heritage buildings to get more land near the tracks of active rail station as money-tree.

Only things which works much, much, much better then anywhere on Balcans considering the economical and public interests are topics support by enthusiasm from associations of citizens.

In Belgrade there is cutting of money-tree to "make profit"... 

*One of the most interesting examples of limited freedom on the west are stereotypes about Balcans, and there is a lot. I will write now only answer on few of them. 

- No there is no evil nations on Balcans! Political situation is complicate, some evil powerfull people misused the crisis in 1980-ies in all parts of former Yugoslavia, but that is not something which make the nation evil.
- Balcans are not danger for foreigners. Particularly, Belgrade is safer then Amsterdam and Rotterdam. It hapened sometimes that something bad happened to foreigner, but that start to be a main topic for jurnalist few weeks. Even people on high level in hierarchy are angaged to solve a case. For all Balcanians, hospitality is question of proud and self respect. 
- The statics of GDP, FORBS list etc. doesn't mean that Balcans is primitive culture and have almost nothing to offer! In sence of education, culture and technical development Former Yugoslavia was sometimes better than some West Europe countries at that time. The history and heritage is very reach, with a lot of impact from few empires. In Lepenski Vir there are well preserved rests of the oldest human setlement with rectangle form of streets etc. Natural beauties are much better saved then in majority of West Europe. 
- Write what do you think about NATO now, go through the Balcans, but deeply, and in different parts, and write again. That could be positive or
negative oppinion, anything, but much, much different before and after. At all, the fear of Balcans on the west is produced to never do that in your life! *


----------



## CrazySerb

There's only one real issue in Serbia and it's believe me, it's never been about lack of money.
It's simply - lack of ideas. Belgrade station, old or new, they simply don't know what to do with them.

Frankly, a lot of time and nerves could have been saved had Serbia, like Canada, decided to simply abandon railways. Screw it - it's for tourists only.

In Canada, the national railway system, VIA Rail, transports roughly 4 million people per year. These are tourists and railway enthusiasts like Rail Serbia, with a sprinkling of old-fashioned business travelers that prefer still rail to air travel.


----------



## Theijs

First of all, Happy new year!


Smart City said:


> Why are you constantly mention "we the west"?



At request of a fellow forum member:



Rail_Serbia said:


> We would like to know more about international experince with those things.


----------



## Smart City

Happy new year!
Ok thank you man for explenation i thought it is you to insisted,and that 's was my rection was as it is,that is why i presented Serbian historic role on foundation of western [email protected] Serbia published a petition internationaly, before he s having any discussion back home about it.Disgrace!


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## Bisofsa

Happy new year to you too but cmon please dont fool yourself. How can you mix the word illyrian with serbian? At the time of Illyrian Empire the word serb didnt even exists, and yet alone serbians as nation. And what about genetics? And I didnt say anything about todays modernization of Serbia, I just said that you shouldnt mix Pannonia with slavs or serbs, it has just nothing to do together. 

And now you can return to the railways.


----------



## Lightton

HAPPY NEW YEAR 2018. Here's hoping that the New Year is in every way complete. With HAPPINESS, SUCCESS, good HEALTH and all that makes LIFE SWEET.
All the best friends from Wonderful Serbien ...!


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## Smart City

Thank you a lot ,all the best Wishes from Serbia for you too in the New Year 2018
Let.s dance with us..idemoooo!!!
https://youtu.be/kxviLf7ftDA


----------



## Rail_Serbia

*O. K. Lets first say Happy New Year!*:cheers:

And after that, to answer to some members which I think are not correct.


Theijs said:


> So in the West you first open a new place, before closing the old.
> What we see now with BW is a limbo: there is nothing in place during the transition time(Glavna closes before Prokop or a metro are ready), like nobody thought about it. And that is what I mean with fatalistic approach: ‘we will see and survive until then’.
> For the rest no offenses to anyone here.


At the beginning you are 100% right, but about another part, you are not correct. Polititians are always included in big projects more or less everywhere in the world. Just until 5 years ago there was any consalting with expert and public about big projects. Even sometimes demonstrations on streets... Less then during socialism, but there was. Both, socialistic and capitalistic countries sometimes have big projects which totally miss the target. USA people use sometimes terms "boondogle", "lets we build it, they will use it". Sometimes, projects can have serios technical problems... 

Examples: 
1) New Berlin Airport
2) Line 2 in Wienna, few dacades was underused, before extending.
3) Miamy metro never reach projected ridership
...
Of course that there was some "Lets we build it, they will use it" projects in Former Yugoslavia, but minority of them. Situation in which state spend the majority of investment resources for this kind of projects is a phenomenon of last few years. 

Closing of old system (railway) before finishing the new system (metro) is something happend almost first time in the history! And at all, there will be huge problems to solve the situation.

"Belgrade Waterfront" is the most demaging project in the history of Serbia which is ever signed without military threat from foreign country. In the contract, there is an article there need to be a clean meadow without anything exept few heritage buildings until the end of 2019. On another side, the investor must finish half of Belgrade waterfront in 20 years, and all in 30 years. English lowyers protect the side of investor, whose word "railways are dirty" was enough for domestic polititions to understand that as "message from God". 

In the year of 2013. Railfan Association sugested the system based on tram-train technology, which could be atractive, not so expensive for construction, and which can start to work in a very short term. Also, very easy to instal on the new network of streets. Render.








Our Association was marked as "an enemy of development" by present President of Serbia. That moment of "conflict" open to our association a lot of doors from a lot of state institions, media, increasing number of members... but that helped for the other topics, not that.

Later, "Belgrade Waterfront" was subject of street demonstrations with up to 25.000 people on the street, the biggest demonstrations about any big project on Balcans, and in the atmosphere of media cenzorship worse than during 1990-ies. The problem is the leaders somehow betray the people who protests. 

Now, even if the revolution happen, and totaly change the political system, there is steal a demaging contract by which Serbia need to pay the penalties for any day passenger railway stay longer! In the same package is relocation of suburban bus station and coach station. The bus companies lobby dictate the bad policy of quality on railways for last two decades, and also not using of the majority of existing track for suburban transport. But, relocation of suburban bus station will make very huge dissatisfaction in the mid of 2018. Almost no users of those suburban lines know that... We will see...

Or to start to organize some resistent now?


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## Singidunum

While it's true that Prokop has no station building it still has more of it than the current station which apart from the pretty facade has almost nothing. 

It's a joke literally









































































This is everything there is and it's the current state of affairs.

http://www.filminserbia.com/location/belgrade-railway-station/


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## Richard_P

Plus there is also good video made by user dulevoz showing suburban rail in Belgrade which already uses Prokop station.


----------



## Smart City

Thank you for video bro,hope you will come to Belgrade soon time.


----------



## Rail_Serbia

Full article on this link.



> WHAT IS NEEDED TO MAKE PROKOP COST-EFFECTIVE?
> 
> At January 26th 2016 one of the construction stages of Prokop was completed. Although this is a big step forward, more needs to be done to have a fully functional new main gate of the European city, which is the main purpose of all the major railway stations in Europe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (NO) CONNECTION TO PUBLIC TRANSPORT
> 
> Except for taxi and car, Prokop is very difficult to get today. From public transport, the best connection is with the city rail BG: VOZ. This is paradoxical, since every current station of the city railway line Pančevački Most - Batajnica is better connected with the surround, and therefore more used then the station that is officially called "Belgrade - Center". The access roads from the direction of the Duke Alexander Karađorđević's boulevard are finished June 20th 2017, but there is no redirecting of the frequent trolleybus lines 40 and 41 is closer to the station itself. Even if they redirect them, we have few articulated trolleybuses, and these two lines are already heavily burdened. In addition, they approach the central city area by ​​Knez Miloš street, where there are no bus lanes and where traffic speeds often fall below 10km / h during working day. Short circular bus route 36 have interval 20min during working day, 40min on weekends, and route 34 is a minibus on every 35 minutes.


Lets we sumarize:
1) Tram connection, with direct lines to almost all parts of tram network.
2) The biggest or one of the biggest bus hub for urban and suburban lines both.
3) Bicycle-pedestrian access between first level above the track to Medical District on bridge construction across the gorge between them. 
4) Commercial zone on 20ha around the train station, with +400.000m2 retail space.
5) The road transport links. 

From those, only 5 is in current plans. From the three planned access roads, only one is finished. 

Very important reason why so much things are needed is the fact that, making this kin of station cost effective need +100.000 people every day there. All Serbia has only 47 EMU, 46 DMU and 30 passenger wagons in service. There is no serious plans to buy more roling stocks until now.

Even if everything else is done on upgrade named Prokop, the Belgrade Main Station is needed, if strategic planners in Serbia realy want to continue the development of historic, cultural, education, administration, touristic center of Belgrade.


----------



## Robertkc

CrazySerb said:


> There's only one real issue in Serbia and it's
> Frankly, a lot of time and nerves could have been saved had Serbia, like Canada, decided to simply abandon railways. Screw it - it's for tourists only.


This is perhaps the most misinformed comment I've ever read in this forum.
Clearly you know little to nothing about urban planning and use of multiple means of transport. Canada/North America can not be compared to Europe and thank god European countries are not car centric, as it's an unsustainable way of developing urban areas with population densities at European levels. 

Better stick to posting photos of the new bridge in Novi Sad :bash:


----------



## Baron Hirsch

The old station had plenty of facilities. In summer, with Belgrade residents heading for the Montenegrian beach and interrailers on their way to Greece, Venice, or Istanbul, it was thriving. Plus just a few steps and you are on Knez Mihajlova, in the old center. The fact that Beograd Glavna looks so barren in the pictures above is because all domestic traffic has been redirected already. 
A new station should not be completely out of the question, but it should be for improvement of services, which so far is definitely not the case. Berlin Hauptbahnhof for example cut off travel times for several directions and massively improved capacity. The fact that long distance trains no longer stopped in Friedrichstraße or the Zoo was mitigated by the fact that there are S-Bahns running every 3 minutes or so to either station and get you there in little time (although planned tram connections took until two years ago to finish and an additional S-Bahn line and U-Bahn are still u/c, but that is another story; at least there were plenty of bus lines from the start). Through services from Nis to Novi Sad or Subotica could be an improvement, but so far all trains still terminate in Belgrade. The other major issue is the lack of connections at Beograd Centar. Even Vukov Spomenik is not really in the center, and so far connections are far too rare. 
As far as SrbjaVoz's rolling stock is concerned, it and services have actually seriously improved over the last few years, but all new trains are DMUs and EMUs of rather limited size. Coaches are all in rather neglected state. The kind of rolling stock you would need to handle summer vacation travel or in case rail ever gets a more serious share of the market is missing. However, MÁV or other coaches only operate on international lines, and SrbjaVoz does provide rolling stock on other international services. 
So the closing of Beograd Glavna under present circumstances is a mistake, or premature at best. In 5-10 years, with proper development of the building, urban infrastructure, and rail services Beograd Centar might have made sense. This way, it looks like the sole purpose is to please real estate investors.


----------



## Tamerlan.

CrazySerb said:


> There's only one real issue in Serbia and it's believe me, it's never been about lack of money.
> It's simply - lack of ideas. Belgrade station, old or new, they simply don't know what to do with them.
> 
> Frankly, a lot of time and nerves could have been saved had Serbia, like Canada, decided to simply abandon railways. Screw it - it's for tourists only.
> 
> In Canada, the national railway system, VIA Rail, transports roughly 4 million people per year. These are tourists and railway enthusiasts like Rail Serbia, with a sprinkling of old-fashioned business travelers that prefer still rail to air travel.



I don't think it's a good idea. Having railways helps a lot. Why so drastic moves? Is state of serbian railways so bad?


----------



## Richard_P

^^47 million euro Zemun depot modernisation was agreed (click)









And BTW how many 412 EMUs Srbija Voz do needs for daily operations? Because 5 are to undergo worth 3,5 million euro modernisation (click).


----------



## Richard_P

_RvR_ said:


> This train is being recycled. More of them are waiting for this. In last period Serbian railways has cut a lots of its rolling stock.


They have also bought 21 Flirt EMUs (although for longer not suburban routes) and 39 (correct me if I am wrong because those were bought in several tranches) type 711 DMUs so cutting old junk is quite normal procedure


----------



## Richard_P

^^Yes, of course RVR trains are supreme over others especially current leader in this field Stadler :nuts: You need to distance Yourself from deep feelings towards RVR products (which judging by Your nick will be extremely hard) and face reality that after so many years in service those trains are worn down and outdated and sooner or later will meet with gas torch  Serbia faces common to Balkan countries problem which is using regional train sets in intercity services due to which there is lack of modern regional trains and comfort on long distance is compromised. Go to Romania where 1950-ties DMUs are still in operation on regional routes while long haul services are covered by Siemens Desiro. Bulgaria phased RVR products with more success although due to poor maintenance of Desiro fleet has many of its modern EMUs out of service so can’t fully say goodbye to RVR units despite several attempts to do so. In similar way Slovenia still uses EMUs bought in 1960-70 ties from Poland which aren’t good in any sense apart from fact that they are available :cheers2:


----------



## Richard_P

_RvR_ said:


> RvR can last more then 50 or 60 years. For your and public information RvR ER1 sets produced in early 60s still run in Ukraine on daily basis.


 EN57-001 produced in 1961 is still stored although for museum purposes yet EN57-038 produced in 1963 is still in operations as many other from similar year some of which underwent extensive modernisation with replacement of DC traction equipment to modern one which doesn't change fact that travel conditions either on base unit as well as on modernised ones are poor which perfectly ilustrates this video:




So yes old junk remains old junk and 1950-ties bogies technology remains 1950-ties even after extensive and expensive modernisation.




> Stadler is maybe leader in this sphere in western countries. We need here a rail vehicle that is capable to withstand demolition and violent behavior of daily passengers.


 You know that difference between Stadler and RVR is such that from RVR You had to take what was produced while from Stadler You can order what you need. What You need is Flirt like Algeria ordered:








Source with many more pictures

While Flirt can be also tailored for long distance like those for Poland (on picture second class, there is also first):








Source with many pictures more



> The 412-064 set that I've posted earlier on previous page is freshly overhauled but it is already damaged from the inside. Hooligans managed to jam the doors between two sections. Luckily I've fixed the problem by placing the rubber strip that blocked the doors in the right position. People kick the doors, jump on the seats and do some other nasty things inside. You think that plastic interior on the modern trains could withstand that? I don't think so. Door handles are made out of metal, most of the parts are from steel and wood. Only the seats are now plastic due to the hygiene and easier maintenance. In former Soviet Union they use wooden seats and I think that is the best solution for these kind of people and their habits.


Antisocial behaviour is seen everywhere and it must be fight down not because modern trains are fragile which isn't true but because such manners are driving decent paying passengers away. Thus in many modern trains CCTV is installed which drastically reduces anti-social behaviour and in worst cases enables to trace suspect or at least document what he done.



> Do you what the Serbs had to do before they've put the Stadler into service? They had to disable the sensors. Apparently the Stadler trains were refusing to move because they were detecting damage on the rail tracks: cracks, distortion etc. The tracks are so bad that the modern train with electronics, sensors and safety mechanisms can't roll in Serbia.


So instead of fixing the tracks remain with antiquated technology? If such approach would be adopted in the past You would still use steam trains


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## Theijs

@RVR and Richard: I get both your points. 
What I observe: as long as the infrastructure remains worn out, modern vehicles like Stadler and Desiro don’t match. In particular if there is a lack of interest, knowledge and money to maintain new rolling stock. But new rolling stock is sexier than track renewal. That a part of the fleet is soon out of service, politicians don’t care. Nor do they are about Beograd Glavni.
So for the time being passengers can maybe be happy that there are running a few refurbished RVR EMUs instead of nothing.
But I had my portion of RVR pictures and information for this season...


----------



## Baron Hirsch

Dear RvR, I know you are into rail nostalgia, but what is the point of posting a message about constructions that is relevant "in the period from 09.09. to 14.11 2017" today? Please!


----------



## ExCaliBourBG

https://youtu.be/a0voBq8ixhE


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## Arnorian

A video of the first regular train crossing of the newly rebuilt New Žeželj's bridge over the Danube in Novi Sad. The bridge has two tracks, as the preparation for the doubling of the present one track on the Novi Sad-Inđija section of the Novi Sad-Belgrade railway that is under way. When it's finished, it's expected that the travel time between Belgrade and Novi Sad will be cut down to 45 minutes.



CrazySerb said:


>


View from the Belgrade-bound passenger train:






The temporary bridge in the background will be disassembled.


----------



## CrazySerb

Zezelj bridge is, as I like to call it, the first major infrastructure object built as part of future quasi-HSR (200kph) Belgrade-Budapest line.

Cortanovci tunnel will be the second...currently being built by Russias RZD:


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## Robertkc

Judging from that video in the previous post, that train was crossing that new bridge at an unbelievably slow rate, far below 200km/h! Hopefully this is just for the beginning as it should be flying across that bridge at speeds in excess of 100km/h surely?


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## Baron Hirsch

The bridge leads directly into Novi Sad Station, so low speeds are definitely in order.


----------



## -III-

Overnight train for Bar on Belgrade main railway station


----------



## -III-

Yugoslav railways inscription










Overhauled autoracks on Topčider station



















Overhauled loading ramp


----------



## -III-

Electric locomotive class 444 pulling freight train at Novi Beograd (New Belgrade station).


----------



## -III-

441 class with passenger train at Belgrade main station



















Belgrade - Budapest international train


----------



## -III-

*441 701-1*

Overhauled and modernized class 411 locomotive on train to Budapest


----------



## -III-

*ЭР35/ER35*

EMU for suburbain rail traffic waiting for departure on Beograd centar station. Line Beograd centar - Resnik

Overhauled and modernized. Main refelctor has LED lights.










Seats with headrests and armrests.










On platform...


----------



## -III-

*Lovćen*

International train Lovćen on Topčider railway station.


----------



## -III-

*Yugoslav railways*

Belgrade main station in 89/90.

Soviet built JŽ 412 EMU (ЭР31) with old coupling device










Hungarian built JŽ 811 DMU (GANZ MAVAG). Ready for departure towards Zaječar.










Romanian built JŽ 461 electric locomotive (Electroputere Craiova). Arriving at Belgrade station pulling passenger train. First ever delivered (461-001).










source


----------



## Theijs

Refurbished sleeper of Serbian Railways


----------



## -III-

> *Beograd’s historic main station closes*
> 
> SERBIA: The historic main station in Beograd closed following the departure of the 20.40 train to Budapest on June 30.
> 
> Most traffic has been transferred to Beograd Centar station in the Prokop area of the capital, except the long-distance service to Bar which moved to Topčider station in the south of the city on June 16.
> 
> The old station building is to become a museum of medieval history, while the vacated railway lands will become part of the Waterfront development which is being undertaken by the government and UAE-based property investor Eagle Hills.
> 
> The closure of the 134-year old station was planned as part of a long-term project to remodel the rail network in Beograd which originally got underway in the early 1970s. This included construction of 19 km of tunnels, new bridges and the Centar, Karađorđev Park and Vukov Spomenik stations.
> 
> Construction of Centar station stopped in 1984, but work restarted in 1996 enabling it to be used by suburban services. In 2001 financial difficulties brought work to a halt once again, until 2012 when the Kuwait Fund for Arab Economic Development agreed to provide €25m to fund the remaining works.
> 
> The majority of stopping services to and from Beograd have used Centar since 2015.



link


----------



## Arnorian

I think this hasn't been posted before.


----------



## Robi_damian

Arnorian said:


> I think this hasn't been posted before.


Stunning shots from what is not (at first glance) a very spectacular line. The angles make the segments in the hills look breathtaking.

On another note, I was not aware that Zeleznice Srbije is now rebranded as Voz: Srbiija.


----------



## Arnorian

It'll be more spectacular when the work on the Belgrade-Novi Sad line is done. The 3 km viaduct between Beška and Sremski Karlovci near the Danube should look nice.

Also there'll be some 20 km of 4-track railway. I don't know if this is common in this part of Europe.


----------



## Robi_damian

Arnorian said:


> It'll be more spectacular when the work on the Belgrade-Novi Sad line is done. The 3 km viaduct between Beška and Sremski Karlovci near the Danube should look nice.
> 
> Also there'll be some* 20 km of 4-track railway*. I don't know if this is common in this part of Europe.


Which segment? I imagine this is somewhere between Belgrade and Stara Pazova, no? It is indeed very uncommon in this part of Europe. In fact I believe only Britain has significant stretches of 4-track railways.


----------



## Arnorian

Yes, Batajnica to just before Inđija. Railways coming from Hungary and Croatia will have two tracks, so that section would be a choke pointif it were to remain with just two tracks.

Plans for later is adding two tracks from Batajnica to New Belgrade station. If there is need even to Belgrade Center. But this last is in the remote future.

Planned speeds are 100 (Belgrade Center-New Belgrade, and Perovaradin-Novi Sad), 120 (New Belgrade-Batajnica), 160 (Sremski Karlovci-Petrovaradin), and 200 (Batajnica- Sremski Karlovci).


----------



## MarcVD

Robi_damian said:


> Which segment? I imagine this is somewhere between Belgrade and Stara Pazova, no? It is indeed very uncommon in this part of Europe. In fact I believe only Britain has significant stretches of 4-track railways.


Very common in France and Belgium too. And in Germany, two tracks on each side of the Rhine river...


----------



## Arnorian

The works on the Belgrade-Stara Pazova section of the Belgrade-Novi Sad-Hungary railway have started. The reconstruction of the existing double tracks, adding of new double tracks between Batajnica and Stara Pazova, and reconstruction of stations is being done China Railway International and China Communications Construction Company. 

The value for this section, and the ongoing Stara Pazova section (reconstruction and adding a second track done by Russian RŽD International) is 800m €. A contract has been signed for the Novi-Sad-Subotica section too, which brings the total value to 1.8b €.

Plan :























































Larger:

http://beobuild.rs/shared/BGC-SPazova.png

source:

http://beobuild.rs/počela-rekonstrukcija-pruge-beograd--stara-pazova-p2801.html


----------



## Arnorian

New Belgrade Station:


----------



## Arnorian

Zemun station:


----------



## Arnorian

Batajnica Station



















Other objects:


----------



## Arnorian

Some details:

Projected speed:

- Belgrade Center-New Belgrade: 100 km/h
- New Belgrade-Batajnica: 120 km/h
- Batajnica-Nova Pazova: 200 km/h passenger dedicated tracks / 120 km/h freight dedicated tracks
- Nova Pazova-Stara Pazova: 200 km/h inner two tracks / 160 km/h outer two tracks

No level crossings, fenced off.

The project encompasses 111 km of track: 84 km reconstructed, and 27 of new 

185.000 of new concrete sleepers.

Signaling: ETCS (L2) + visual for 160 km/h

Project done by CIP, Belgrade.

Loan: 319m $, 30 years, 5 years grace period, 2% interest rate

Project deadline: 36 months.

source: http://beobuild.rs/ugovorena-prva-deonica-brze-pruge-beograd--budimpešta-p2660.html


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## Arnorian

The plan and elevation profile of the reconstructed Stara Pazova-Novi sad railway.

Wide pictures:

http://fotkica.com/imgs3/1_153580181_Saobracaj 87.jpg

http://fotkica.com/imgs3/1_153580181_tzertz.jpg


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## TedStriker

Is there any news to report on the proposed intermodal terminal in Batajnica?


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## Arnorian

No.


----------



## TedStriker

^^

Thanks.


----------



## Arnorian

Works on the Belgrade-Novi Sad railways (reconstruction/realignment/doubling).


----------



## Theijs

Does anyone has info concerning the railway service to Zvornik that will start in December?
Source: https://www.railwaygazette.com/news...erbia-reopens-line-to-the-bosnian-border.html


----------



## -III-

*Požega*


----------



## Arnorian

Financing of the completion of the Zemun technical station in Belgrade has been settled. The project is worth 47 million € and is financed by EBRD. The deadline is two years, tendering has started.

This technical station will be the main maintenance facility for passenger trains that start/finish their journeys in Belgrade.

Another one is planned to be in the south of the city, but has been postponed for the time being.










http://beobuild.rs/korak-do-kvalitetnog-održavanja-vozova-p2822.html

When this technical station is finished trains heading south from Belgrade will make stops at four stations in the city - Zemun-New Belgrade-Belgrade Center-Rakovica.


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## Arnorian

Some new-ish pics.



Аполон;153952686 said:


> *Works on Belgrade-Novi Sad rail line*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The bridge over the Danube in Novi Sad
> 
> 
> by Dušan Vujović
> 
> 
> 
> *Belgrade's S-Bahn trains in Resnik station*
> screenshot tool
> by Železnički saobraćaj-Rail traffic
> 
> *Beograd Center station*
> 
> by Mladen Žarković


----------



## -III-

HŽ 1141-004 (ex. JŽ 442-004) om border station Šid (Шид) in Serbia after arrival form Croatia with train 415 from St.Veit to Beograd Centar station.

This locomotive is able to reach 160 km/h.




























personal archive


----------



## kolumbus




----------



## Robi_damian

Are the modernizaiton works also extended to the Beograd-Mala Krsna segment ? Cause there seem to be no passenger trains, with all trans South to Nis going via Mladenovac and with no trains from Belgrade to Smederevo.


----------



## Arnorian

Yes.


----------



## Theijs

EU-paid overheadwires have been dismantled half a year after opening of the Novi Sad Bridge. Any clue why?


----------



## Alex_ZR

Theijs said:


> EU-paid overheadwires have been dismantled half a year after opening of the Novi Sad Bridge. Any clue why?


Because of Belgrade-Novi Sad railway reconstruction?


----------



## Theijs

Robi_damian said:


> Are the modernizaiton works also extended to the Beograd-Mala Krsna segment ? Cause there seem to be no passenger trains, with all trans South to Nis going via Mladenovac and with no trains from Belgrade to Smederevo.



Yes, but modernizations works are still to start this spring. The infrastructure should be upgraded for speeds like 160 km/h.


----------



## fabianvendrig

Hey Theijs , indeed because of the upgrade of Belgrade-Subotica, but why they dismantled it : nobody knows. Before yesterday I was driving with my car along the railway line and all the way to Indija it is dismantled.


----------



## davide84

Poles are still there, maybe they just removed the wires in preparation for some tall machinery to operate on the lines...? All the infrastructure should still be there, e.g. power stations, transmission cables...


----------



## Robertkc

Does anyone know when train service between Belgrade and Novi Sad will resume? And when it does, how long will the fast non-stop services take?


----------



## Theijs

Robertkc said:


> Does anyone know when train service between Belgrade and Novi Sad will resume? And when it does, how long will the fast non-stop services take?




SerbiaVoz wrote me ‘end of this Timetable period’. I doubt that is realistic. So dont count on anything during 2019...


----------



## fabianvendrig

That is not realistic @theijs : count 2 years at least.


----------



## Robertkc

Does anyone know if the Beograd-Bar service still operates with the option to take your car? I'd like to take the daytime service along with my car this Friday from BG to Podgorica or Bar (my final destination is Herceg Novi). Few questions: 
1) Does it operate?
2) Does that service commence in Topcider for those bringing their car?
3) What station (s) do I have the option to disembark in Montenegro with my car (from Srbija Voz site it would appear to be Bar only?) 
4) Where can I buy tickets seeing as how they closed the central station last year?


----------



## Theijs

Robertkc said:


> 2) Does that service commence in Rakovica for those bringing their car?
> 
> 4) Where can I buy tickets and if anyone knows the price (including car), that would be great.


Beograd Topcider is the place to be.


----------



## -III-




----------



## -III-

Robertkc said:


> Does anyone know if the Beograd-Bar service still operates with the option to take your car? I'd like to take the daytime service along with my car this Friday from BG to Podgorica or Bar (my final destination is Herceg Novi). Few questions:
> 1) Does it operate?
> 2) Does that service commence in Topcider for those bringing their car?
> 3) What station (s) do I have the option to disembark in Montenegro with my car (from Srbija Voz site it would appear to be Bar only?)
> 4) Where can I buy tickets seeing as how they closed the central station last year?



1. Yes it does. The first train 431 ''Tara'' departs at 09:00 in the morning but it doesn't have auto rack. The other one 433 ''Lovćen'' departs at 21:10. This one has auto racks. According to timetable it arrives in Bar at 08:08 in the morning. You must have a reservation and if you bring your car you'll have to be in Topčider 3 hours before departure.

2. Yes it commence there.

3. Only in Bar.

4. You can buy tickets at central station as well. They are still selling tickets there.


----------



## -III-

This is the place where you can buy your ticket and reservation.


----------



## -III-

DMU class 711










A view from platform on Beograd centar railway station towards New Belgrade.


----------



## davide84

Is there any official website for this project?

English Wikipedia is a bit confusing, especially regarding speed. Which, by the way, is not even an issue if the main goal is to transport goods from chinese-operated Piraeus port to Central Europe... (is it?)


----------



## Arnorian

You have the speed specs and maps of Belgrade-Novi Sad section on the last two pages.


----------



## davide84

Thanks. I found one post with specs (https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=151268111&postcount=847), as usual Wiki says something incorrect...


----------



## eu01

Chortanovci not Čortanovci or Чортановци? Weird.


----------



## Baron Hirsch

3 different ways of spelling the same thing.


----------



## Arnorian

Interesting fact: the first Buddhist monastery in Serbia is directly above the Čortanovci tunnel, 200m from its northern portal.


----------



## -III-

nsnikolov said:


> What do you mean by"The last one leaves today"?
> The train travels also in August.


Like I've said, no more couchette after 23rd of July. Check the timetable.










source


----------



## VITORIA MAN

10 hours from ljub to beograd !!!!! my god !


----------



## rodineisilveira

takini said:


> Z1 coaches interior


Very confortable!


----------



## -III-

VITORIA MAN said:


> 10 hours from ljub to beograd !!!!! my god !


Yes. There are two locomotive changes: one in Šid and another in Dobova.


----------



## Baron Hirsch

Luckily, the seating wagons have compartments where you can extend the seats so they meet in the middle, making a seamless bed. As the train to my knowledge is not very crowded, one can doze fairly well this way, although I also mourn the rather well-kept Optima couchette.


----------



## -III-

I don't see that as an advantage.


----------



## nsnikolov

-III- said:


> Like I've said, no more couchette after 23rd of July. Check the timetable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> source


Oh, no!
What is the reason for this?


----------



## -III-

I don't know. The last train with couchettes has left on 23rd of July. If you check the timetable you will notice that there are no sleeping cars or couchettes. Just first and second class cars with compartments.


----------



## Uppsala

Baron Hirsch said:


> Luckily, the seating wagons have compartments where you can extend the seats so they meet in the middle, making a seamless bed. As the train to my knowledge is not very crowded, one can doze fairly well this way, although I also mourn the rather well-kept Optima couchette.



You think of the traditional type of coach formed in large series in the former Yugoslavia. This type of coaches is called Bl. They were manufactured from the 1960s and into the 1980s. These were manufactured by GOŠA in Smederevska Palanka in what is today Serbia.

These coaches were very comfortable in their day. But over the years, after the dissolution of Yugoslavia, they could be in different conditions, depending on where they were placed and how they are maintained.

Today these are still common in, for example, Slovenia and Northern Macedonia. Unfortunately in Northern Macedonia these are in poor condition.

In Slovenia these are still to a large extent and there they are in good condition.

In Serbia, there are some. But many of these are gone. They are replaced by modern Stadler Flirt EMUs.

In Serbia, they also seem to have no interest in driving more with coaches of this type. They seem to prefer to replace these with new train types instead.


----------



## -III-

Slovenian coaches are in good condition. I saw them.


----------



## Theijs

Uppsala said:


> The GOŠA ‘Bl’ coaches were very comfortable in their day. But over the years, after the dissolution of Yugoslavia, they could be in different conditions, depending on where they were placed and how they are maintained.


Back in 2004 I enjoyed several journeys Zagreb - Sarajevo - Mostar. HZ had put ‘Bl’ coaches, ZFBH had freshly refurbished coaches in this international train.

Thank you for your confirmation that these Bl coaches are a typical product of Yugoslavia, as I haven’t seen them anywhere else.


----------



## Balkanada

Serbia Cargo's new Siemens Vectron locomotives (source)


----------



## Uppsala

^^
These locomotives will probably be successful in Serbia. And in addition, most freight trains that go to either Croatia or Hungary will be towed with these locomotives. The older locomotives will soon be mostly used for domestic freight trains.

This is part of the fact that Serbia is now investing more and more in buying new vehicles


----------



## Baron Hirsch

Yes, but with the system, including main lines and corridors such as Beograd - Nis a shambles, plus Nis - Bulgarian border still non-electrified and super-slow (on both lines, passenger trains do not pass an effective station-to-station speed of 30 kmh), the new rolling stock is of little use.


----------



## CrazySerb

Big meeting today - it's becoming likely Chinese firm CRRC will now deliver rolling stock for the new Belgrade-Budapest HSR line...



> *Mihajlovic with the Chinese company CRRC on high-speed trains*
> 02.08.2019 - 14:19
> 
> Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Construction, Transport and Infrastructure, prof. Dr. Zorana Mihajlovic, spoke today with the Vice President of the Chinese company CRRC Lou Cilang about the possibilities of cooperation in the railway traffic - on the project of construction of the railway from Belgrade to Budapest and cooperation in the field of production and supply of vehicles and railway equipment.
> 
> Mihajlovic emphasized that Serbia and the People's Republic of China have excellent bilateral relations, thanks to the friendly relations between the two presidents, and that the ministry that is in charge is open to cooperation on projects in rail transport.
> 
> "The reconstruction of the Belgrade-Budapest expressway is a strategically important project for both Serbia and the region, and I am glad that one of the world's best companies in this field is interested in participating in the project," Mihajlovic said.
> 
> Lou Gillen said that infrastructure is one of the pillars of the country's economic development and that Serbia has an excellent position at the intersection between Europe and Asia.
> 
> "Serbia and the People's Republic of China have traditionally friendly relations, but also developed a strategic partnership. Your geographical location provides an excellent link between east and west, and building a high-speed line from Belgrade to Budapest will greatly contribute to this. We are interested in cooperation, especially in the field of production and supply of railway equipment, locomotives and wagons, "said Gillen.


----------



## Arnorian

Čortanovci viaduct.



Дisiдent;161383650 said:


>


----------



## No1

Čortanovci viaduct oh high-speed line Belgrade-Budapest


----------



## nsnikolov

Before some time I read that the railway line Dimitrovgrad-Nis will be electrified and there will be a bypass around Nis. Does anyone know anything about it and when it will happen?


----------



## keber

Why are there two parallel viaducts which is obviusly much more expensive?


----------



## Baron Hirsch

nsnikolov said:


> Before some time I read that the railway line Dimitrovgrad-Nis will be electrified and there will be a bypass around Nis. Does anyone know anything about it and when it will happen?


How long ago was that announcement I wonder? Nothing has happened yet, could see that with my own two eyes passing through one month ago. But they claim it should start still this year and last 2 1/2 years.
https://seenews.com/news/serbia-to-complete-nis-dimitrovgrad-railway-overhaul-in-2023-665167


----------



## Stuu

keber said:


> Why are there two parallel viaducts which is obviusly much more expensive?


A guess based on the photos: The viaduct leads to two single track tunnels, so the tracks need to split apart. It looks like the viaduct starts off as a single viaduct and then splits into two nearer the tunnel.


----------



## No1

Some railway projects in north Serbia. Mostly regional rail lines reconstructions which was in bad conditions for long time and some new line like high-speed railway line Belgrade-Budapest.


----------



## Theijs

No1 said:


> Some railway projects in north Serbia. Mostly regional rail lines reconstructions


Nice video. Are there similar reconstruction works in other parts of the country or is that for later?


----------



## Baron Hirsch

There will be. 
- Nis-Bulgarian border to be upgraded to 120 kmh with partial EU grant and loan between end of the year and 2023.
- Belgrade-Montenegrin border to be reconstructed; an agreement with Russian Railways has just been signed, I know nothing of the details.
What about Belgrade-Nis? It has seen some partial upgrades, but the line is still in a rut. Any more thorough activity planned there?


----------



## nsnikolov

Are there any plans of a train Belgrade-Budapest through Panchevo, Zrenjanin and Banatsko Miloshevo while the lines Belgrade-Novi Sad and Novi Sad - Subotica(from March) are closed?


----------



## No1

I think only freight rail will go on.
Video above partially talk about that.


----------



## smokiboy

From Beobuild.rs posted 30 October 2019.

The latest on the construction of the viaduct and tunnel near the town of Čortanovci, on the new high speed line from Beograd to Novi Sad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFapaV0Pw8I


----------



## Arnorian

Works on the Belgrade-Novi Sad railway at Čortanovci.


----------



## Robertkc

Baron Hirsch said:


> - Belgrade-Montenegrin border to be reconstructed; an agreement with Russian Railways has just been signed, I know nothing of the details.


Any idea when work will start on this, or some link to the project details? Who has been awarded the contract on the Montenegrin side of the border?


----------



## Martin Mystere

New rolling stock to be ordered...



> *Srbija Voz to buy 18 new trains for EUR 100 million*
> 
> The European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (EBRD) has approved a EUR 100 million loan to Srbija Voz for the purchase of 18 new trains.
> 
> As said in the EBRD’s announcement, Srbija Voz will buy new four-car coaches, which will provide comfortable and reliable regional passenger services on the electrified sections of the rail network.
> 
> The EBRD expects these to encourage more new passengers to shift their travel habits from road to rail services, leading to a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions.
> 
> Susan Goeransson, Director, Head of Infrastructure, Europe at EBRD, said that they were pleased to be one of the key partners of Srbija Voz in this revitalization project.
> 
> Jugoslav Jović, Acting General Manager of Srbija Voz, added that the project would improve the organization, quality and cost-effectiveness of passenger transport services in regional rail transport and enable safer and more comfortable rail transport for passengers.
> 
> The EBRD has already supported Serbian railway to buy new passenger coaches and freight wagons which now connect some of the country’s biggest cities. As well as investing in the new fleet, the EBRD has also supported Srbija Voz in expanding and upgrading a railway depot in Zemun, as well as supporting the company to improve its IT systems, energy management and ticket sales.
> 
> In parallel, the EBRD team supports the company to improve its management and corporate governance, which should lead to increased efficiency and overall modernization of the state company.


----------



## Martin Mystere

Completion of Belgrade's new central station in sight?



> Sunday, 29.12.2019.| 11:37
> 
> *Dutch-Bulgarian company to build Prokop railway station?*
> 
> The Dutch-Bulgarian company Railway City Beograd is a potential partner of the Republic of Serbia on the project of the construction of the Belgrade Center (Prokop) railway station and the accompanying parking lot and commercial features, Politika writes.
> 
> As the Property Directorate of the Republic of Serbia told the daily, the company was the only one to send a letter of intent, and the Government of Serbia decided this October to start negotiating with them.
> 
> Politika writes that the company was founded in April, that its core activity is the development of building projects and that its 50-50 owners are Railway City B.V. from the Netherlands and Railway City Ltd from Bulgaria.
> 
> *The daily reminds that the urban project for Prokop was approved by the Urban Planning Secretariat of Belgrade in 2015 and that it entails 30,000 m2 of commercial features, in addition to the railway station building and the parking lot.*
> 
> The state will invest the land and enable construction on all the areas in its ownership that meet the technical requirements.


----------



## Arnorian

Works on the Belgade-Novi Sad railway at Sremski Karlovci.


----------



## Arnorian

Works on Belgrade-Novi Sad railway, 636 pictures by Dusan Vujovic from March here: Remont i izgradnja pruge Beograd Centar - Novi Sad 19-21.3.2020. | Facebook


----------



## nsnikolov

What carriages and locomotives do you think will be used when the Belgrade-Budapest line is finished as Serbia does not have carriages for 200km/h? Hungarian?


----------



## Arnorian

I have no idea. And I doubt anyone has.


----------



## btrs

nsnikolov said:


> What carriages and locomotives do you think will be used when the Belgrade-Budapest line is finished as Serbia does not have carriages for 200km/h? Hungarian?


They (Srbija Voz) *have* carriages suited for 200 km/h, but they downgraded them to 160 km/h to stretch maintenance intervals (and lack of domestic fast routes to drive them). It concerns the GOSA Aeelmt, Beelmt and WReelmt cars, built in the late-1990s. Back in 2002 some had still 200 km/h capability (for Germany, Austria), but from 2003 they were starting to renumbering them with -70 numbers (ie 61 72 10/20/87-70 xxx-x)

To put it in pictures, these are the ones:








ŽS


Železnice Srbije




www.flickr.com





Croatia (HZPP) and Slovenian (SZ) railways have coaches from the same series. Only the Slovenian (SZ) ones are still certified for 200 km/h running (Austria!). HZPP also downgraded their coaches to 160 km/h when they got their first big overhaul (new livery) around 2009-2010.


----------



## nsnikolov

The Wild Boy said:


> Greetings pals, I'm new to this forum.
> Anyways, wanted to say some things about this.
> It's nice that Serbia is heavily investing in modernizing its most frequent and important railway line, from Belgrade all the way to the border with Hungary.
> But I've got some questions and concerns.


Don't worry so much about the line. Most of it will be for 200 km/h(of course there are some places, where the speed will be lower) and there is no problem all trains to use it


----------



## nsnikolov

btrs said:


> They (Srbija Voz) *have* carriages suited for 200 km/h, but they downgraded them to 160 km/h to stretch maintenance intervals (and lack of domestic fast routes to drive them). It concerns the GOSA Aeelmt, Beelmt and WReelmt cars, built in the late-1990s. Back in 2002 some had still 200 km/h capability (for Germany, Austria), but from 2003 they were starting to renumbering them with -70 numbers (ie 61 72 10/20/87-70 xxx-x)
> 
> To put it in pictures, these are the ones:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ŽS
> 
> 
> Železnice Srbije
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.flickr.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Croatia (HZPP) and Slovenian (SZ) railways have coaches from the same series. Only the Slovenian (SZ) ones are still certified for 200 km/h running (Austria!). HZPP also downgraded their coaches to 160 km/h when they got their first big overhaul (new livery) around 2009-2010.


I also read that they are buying 18 new trains for 100 millions euro and they will be capable of 200km/h.


----------



## davide84

The Wild Boy said:


> None of them run freight trains on the express train routes


If you do so you reduce capacity, it's a general rule.
200 km/h is an unofficial threshold, below you can still manage it, above it you need dedicated tracks. Even Italy is doing it this way, despite having built the HS lines with freight compatibility...


----------



## Theijs

The Wild Boy said:


> If you advertise something like this or use it for political campaigns, then you at least gotta be honest.


Name me the countries where politicians are honest during their campaign, e.g., that all their promises are financially backed so the promise is viable and not a dust in the eye or a fata morgana...


----------



## Robi_damian

The line was always a long shot for making economic sense as a full HSR. A conventional line stretching speeds to 160-200 is enough to ensure 90 minutes from Belgrade to Subotica and 45 to Novi Sad. Contrary to what many expect, cross-border passenger traffic in Europe remains limited on all but a few lines linking neighbouring large cities. The truth is that even on most trains going all the way to Budapest, 80-90% of the passengers leaving Belgrade will be off by Subotica.


----------



## TedStriker

The Wild Boy said:


> ...a proper high speed railway.
> 
> ....also diverting freight trains on other routes as well. Have a look at Germany's high speed railway, Japan's high speed railway and many other. None of them run freight trains on the express train routes, instead they all go through other routes, or if they really have to run them, it's for a short distance, or they run other tracks parallel to the existing ones.


A railway with a maximum line speed of 200 kph is not a high speed railway, first of all. 200 kph is simply the maximum line speed that is considered to be desirable for conventional railways in Europe generally, in the same way that 160 kph was for long time seen as the desirable maximum speed.

In Britain, two conventional railway routes have featured 200 kph stretches of track for non-tilting trains since 1976. In neither case are the tracks used only by trains capable of 200 kph.

I understand why you would like to see the entire Belgrade-Budapest route 200 kph-capable. Nevertheless, the project as it is really is going to be quite an improvement on the current situation, which is the most important thing to consider.

Also, the new route is going to be very important for freight trains, intermodal trains in particular. This will be true both for intermodal teams carrying shipping containers, such as to-and-from Athens, in addition to trains carrying semi-trailers, such as to-and-from Thessaloniki.

It’s likely that Belgrade itself will become busier with intermodal trains once the line opens and the new intermodal terminal is built in Batajnica. 

Intermodal trains can operate at up to 120 kph and it is not that difficult to intersperse them with 200 kph trains, especially if the frequency of 200 kph is not too intense. For sure, to regulate traffic, passing loops would be a requirement.

Remember that the ‘express’ rail lines that you’re thinking of elsewhere in the world are actual high speed lines, which means the maximum line speeds are much higher than 200 kph.


----------



## Arnorian

@The Wild Boy There are two lines of urban/suburban rail. Metro is in the planning stages.


----------



## Manos-GR

Railway line - Beograd / Autokomanda


----------



## Manos-GR

Beograd-Nis route (section Stalac-Djunis)


----------



## Manos-GR

Bujanovac


----------



## Manos-GR

Trupale (Nis)


----------



## Manos-GR

Nis station


----------



## Arnorian

These pictures above of Niš station will become historical in the next few years. Niš will get a reconstructed rail junction and a new central station (marked as Niš Sever Aerodrom), positioned right next to the airport. The alignments of tracks will look like this. Existing tracks in black, new ones in blue, and I added defunct tracks that will be removed in red. This will solve the longstanding problem of numerous at-level rail crossings all over the city.


----------



## Ghostpoet

Arnorian said:


> These pictures above of Niš station will become historical in the next few years. Niš will get a reconstructed rail junction and a new central station (marked as Niš Sever Aerodrom), positioned right next to the airport. The alignments of tracks will look like this. Existing tracks in black, new ones in blue, and I added defunct tracks that will be removed in red. This will solve the longstanding problem of numerous at-level rail crossings all over the city.


This is just a plan, or already some agreements were signed?
How far is the new station from the city center? Also, old (current) Niš station will be completely closed?

Thank you!
Ghostpoet


----------



## Arnorian

@Ghostpoet The plan is to finish this by 2025, but I doubt it. Couple of years more will be needed. The works are yet to be tendered out. The land has been expropriated, the expropriation of building is ongoing.

The station is 4 km from the city center. I think the old station will be closed. The realignment will also allow the airport runway to be extended.


----------



## Baron Hirsch

An EU credit has been signed for the project. The beginning of works has been announced repeatedly to again be postponed. Hope it will start happening someday soon.


----------



## smokiboy

It is very unfortunate that there is no provision made for the new central station to be much closer to the city centre. After all, one of the benefits of rail travel is that it takes you from city centre to city centre. Perhaps the new central station could be on the 'red' line just where it crosses the Nišava Rriver. That is where a new station could be built with 6-8 platforms, demolition of nearby houses would be necessary, as well as a wider bridge. This way the new station would be less than 1km to the city centre. Above/below the station could be built retail, office and residential units. The station boundaries would be Nišava River to the north, Novosadska Street to the east, D.S.Turjanac Street to the west, and Lešjanin Street to the south. This entire area is ready for redevelopment, and has no historical or significant builds from what I can see from GE.

From the new Central station the 'red' line could be rebuilt as a tram line with the following route;

From the new station following the existing track on Drainčeva Street past Obilićev Venac and along Vojvoda Gojga/Čairska and turn north on Nemanjićeva follow it to Sedmog Jula Street, then to Kralja Stefana Prvovenčanog and then to Vožda Karađorđa and back to the New. Central Station. 

This large circular route would cover a good part of Niš and form the backbone of it's public transit system and many of it's main attractions like Čair Sport Centre & Park, many dense neighborhoods, King Milan Square and downtown.
It would also be nice to turn the 'black' tracks in the hills to a hiking trail if they will not be used for rail traffic anymore.


----------



## Theijs

smokiboy said:


> It is very unfortunate that there is no provision made for the new central station to be much closer to the city centre.


Niš is not an exception. We have seen this before in Beograd. The government has other priorities.


----------



## smokiboy

What other priorities are you talking about?


----------



## smokiboy

This is what I meant for the location of the new Niš central railway station, and the tramway in the city.


----------



## Theijs

smokiboy said:


> What other priorities are you talking about?


Preference for prestigious sky scrapers, banning centrally located railway stations out of the city, preference for mobility by car etc.


----------



## Arnorian

Works on the Belgrade-Novi Sad railway at 1:38, and reconstruction in Belgrade (stations New Belgrade and Zemun) at 8:15.


----------



## Arnorian

Theijs said:


> Preference for prestigious sky scrapers, banning centrally located railway stations out of the city, preference for mobility by car etc.


The new Belgrade Center station is not outside the city. When it was designed it was planned to have a metro line passing underneath it, for which a concrete cassette was made. You would have been in inner city center in 5 minutes. But the full story is that the new railway junction for Belgrade was planned to have a distributed 4-station layout. All four stations will eventually be served by all the all trains departing towards Novi Sad/Šid and Niš/Požega. Two of these are in the old part of the city (Belgrade Center, and Rakovica in the south), and two across the river in the new (New Belgrade and Zemun).

Belgrade's planners were ahead of their time, because they re imagined the whole Belgrade junction without any frontal termini, but just run-through stations. Two technical depots are planned, one beyond Zemun station (on the outside of the city), and one beyond Rakovica. This allowed all four stations to be smaller, with less tracks/platforms. For example three two-track lines enter Belgrade Center, but when finished it will have just 6 platforms and 10 tracks. But provisions for possible doubling of the line going west towards New Belgrade to four tracks has been implemented. This would need a new bridge over the Sava, so it's in the far future, if it happens at all. But it gives the possibility to separate S-bahn trains from long distance trains.


----------



## kokomo

Hi everyone!

I got across this video recently and I was astonished by the beauty of the landscape but a bit shocked by the state of Topcider station and the lack of maintenance of the rolling stock. I was surprised to see there is no full electrified connection to Bulgaria.


----------



## Arnorian

A nice picture of the Belgrade Center station. The works on finishing two more tracks and the plate above them are ongoing. Then comes the station building. Also, roads connecting the station directly to the motorway (on the left).


----------



## Le Clerk

Hi! Do you have more info on the plans to upgrade the main train station in Belgrade? Thanks.


----------



## Jowahlen

Is there any plan to build an car-loading facility in the Belgrade Center station? So the trains carrying cars don't have to leave from Topcider.


----------



## Arnorian

Le Clerk said:


> Hi! Do you have more info on the plans to upgrade the main train station in Belgrade? Thanks.


Last summer a public invitation to companies was issued for the station building construction. The proposal was for a private company to build the station building and get commercial space to use, as well as the parking structure. I don't know if anything came of it.

Mock-up for the station building was done.

view from the north









southern/upper entrance









northern/lower entrance


----------



## Arnorian

Jowahlen said:


> Is there any plan to build an car-loading facility in the Belgrade Center station? So the trains carrying cars don't have to leave from Topcider.


I don't know, but the layout of the Belgrade Center station doesn't leave much, if any room for that. IMO.


----------



## Le Clerk

Arnorian said:


> Last summer a public invitation to companies was issued for the station building construction. The proposal was for a private company to build the station building and get commercial space to use, as well as the parking structure. I don't know if anything came of it.
> 
> Mock-up for the station building was done.
> 
> view from the north
> View attachment 197123
> 
> 
> southern/upper entrance
> View attachment 197124
> 
> 
> northern/lower entrance
> View attachment 197125


Thanks. Looks very good. So the works now are part of this project?


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## Arnorian

Le Clerk said:


> Thanks. Looks very good. So the works now are part of this project?


No, the ongoing works are on finishing the last two tracks and the plate above them. On this plate the station building will be built.

In earlier plans for the station metro was integrated in it. There is a built shell for the metro station beneath the tracks of the train station. Unfortunately, the corruption has pushed the metro line towards building projects of the tycoons, so no metro for the main railway station. Maybe on the third line, somewhere in the distant future.


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## Le Clerk

Thanks for the answer. It is a good start for Belgrade nonetheless, and I assume the rest of the project will go ahead at some point in time.

We have a similar proposal for a modernisation of the Bucharest Gara de Nord which is currently at feasibility study stage. It is long overdue.
Some renders are here but they are still to be confirmed.


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## Arnorian

It'll get there, sooner or later. But I won't consider the Belgrade's rail network complete until there's four tracks from Belgrade Center to Batajnica.


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## smokiboy

Are there four tracks planned? Would that mean a new wider rail bridge over the Sava River?

This design by CIP is way better than the earlier renders. It looks modern, realistic and doable. Terrible that it isn't a priority for a metro line.


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## Arnorian

smokiboy said:


> Are there four tracks planned? Would that mean a new wider rail bridge over the Sava River?
> 
> This design by CIP is way better than the earlier renders. It looks modern, realistic and doable. Terrible that it isn't a priority for a metro line.


Four tracks are in long-term plans for New Belgrade station to Batajnica. From New Belgrade to Belgrade Center it's in the far future, if it becomes necessary. An identical second bridge can be added fairy easily.

The plan is for all trains to/from SE and SW to have a terminal in Zemun, and to/from N and W in Rakovica. This would mean that Belgrade has a distributed main station (Zemun-New Belgrade-Belgrade Center-Rakovica). Belgrade Center was not designed to act as a terminal station, as it has 6 tracks entering it, but only 10 tracks. This distributed arrangement will mean doubled traffic between Zemun and Rakovica. Add to that the very popular suburban train service, and Belgrade Center-New Belgrade two-track section could become a choking point quicker than expected.

Of course, the timeframe is decades.


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## smokiboy

Thanks for this Arnorian, makes sense.


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## The Wild Boy

Arnorian said:


> Four tracks are in long-term plans for New Belgrade station to Batajnica. From New Belgrade to Belgrade Center it's in the far future, if it becomes necessary. An identical second bridge can be added fairy easily.
> 
> The plan is for all trains to/from SE and SW to have a terminal in Zemun, and to/from N and W in Rakovica. This would mean that Belgrade has a distributed main station (Zemun-New Belgrade-Belgrade Center-Rakovica). Belgrade Center was not designed to act as a terminal station, as it has 6 tracks entering it, but only 10 tracks. This distributed arrangement will mean doubled traffic between Zemun and Rakovica. Add to that the very popular suburban train service, and Belgrade Center-New Belgrade two-track section could become a choking point quicker than expected.
> 
> Of course, the timeframe is decades.


Don't you guys use Rakovica as the train station that serves trains from other countries? 
They could just divert the less important trains and have them terminate at Rakovica, or some other station nearby.
But yeah, just like you said. With the sub - urban train line, freight trains and trains going from city to city, it will become a mess. It's what I was saying the whole time that running freight train across Belgrade is not the best idea, unless that freight train has to go in Belgrade for a reason. The same with the highway. You divert cars at the Belgrade ring - road highway which is in its final stages of construction, and you can ease the traffic going through the Belgrade urban highway, therefore reducing the traffic jams. Same for trains.


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## Arnorian

@The Wild Boy 
Running freight trains towards Pančevo is a temporary measure. It will be resolved when the Vinča motorway-railway bridge gets built. Then there will be no reason for freight trains to enter Belgrade for transit. On the west side there is already a freight rail bypass, from Resnik to Batajnica. The reason why freight trains now pass through Dedinje and Vračar tunnels was to free land around the old Belgrade Main station for development.

Ending any train service in Rakovica is out of the question. It was not designed to be a terminal station, as it has only six tracks (five with platforms).

In reality none of the four stations in Belgrade is designed as a terminal station in a physical sense. The plan is to have two technical facilities, one west of Zemun station (under construction now), and one south of Rakovica, (construction not yet started) the first for trains to/from SE and SW, the second for those to/from W and N.. So the trains wouldn't stop at any of the stations for more than a couple of minute, and eliminated maneuvering of trains in stations. These technical stations would serve as depots, and maintenance, safety inspection, and cleaning would be done there.


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## Theijs

Arnorian said:


> @The Wild Boy
> The plan is to have two technical facilities, one west and one south (...) So the trains wouldn't stop at any of the stations for more than a couple of minute, and eliminated maneuvering of trains in stations.


This model is as well applied in Amsterdam.


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## Arnorian

As I said before, the plan for Belgrade ail junction was ahead of it's time. The general overview was set in 1971, and the detailed plan was finished in 1974. The construction started in 1977.


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## Theijs

Arnorian said:


> As I said before, the plan for Belgrade ail junction was ahead of it's time. The general overview was set in 1971, and the detailed plan was finished in 1974. The construction started in 1977.


With one difference: the center of Amsterdam is well connected by rail, the center of Beograd isn’t since they closed Beograd Glavni.


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## Arnorian

@Theijs 
The plan then was to build three mostly independent and interconnected rail networks: IC/international rail that is the current Belgrade rail junction (magenta), regional rail (green), and metro (red). Regional rail and metro never happened. In this plan all four IC/international main stations were well connected into the regional and metro networks. Rail reserved for freight is not clearly shown.


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## No1




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## Arnorian

Works on the reconstruction and doubling of tracks on the north side of the Danube in Novi Sad have started.










source: Rekonstrukcija pruge Subotica - Novi Sad - Beograd (35/36): NSBuild Forum


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## Ghostpoet

Arnorian said:


> Works on the reconstruction and doubling of tracks on the north side of the Danube in Novi Sad have started.
> ...
> source: Rekonstrukcija pruge Subotica - Novi Sad - Beograd (35/36): NSBuild Forum


When the Stara Pazova - Novi Sad line will be reopened?

Thank you!

Ghostpoet


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## Arnorian

Ghostpoet said:


> When the Stara Pazova - Novi Sad line will be reopened?


The official deadline is October 2021.


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## smokiboy

A new video (in Serbian) from _Infrastruktura železnice Srbije_ of the viaduct being built near the town of Beška. 
(fast forward through the obligatory political speeches).


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## The Wild Boy

Watched that video and i have something to say. 

First of all this is an important corridor, and I'm glad that Serbia is keeping this as an important corridor for railway, because it's a good alternative to using trucks, and not only is the pollution decreased, but the safety is increased too. There will be less traffic jams too, because lots of the cargo will go through trains and not trucks. 

Thanks to Serbia and Greece, my country is going to be forced to build a fast railway. 
The sad thing is any government that comes, they just don't care that much about the railway infrastructure, but it seems that in the future my country will be forced to do it mainly because it's a big and important corridor linking the port of Thessaloniki with the rest of Europe, and you know port of Thessaloniki is owned by the Chinese, and they use trains the most after ships for transportating cargo. 

Sad thing is that my country will get away with some new railway network, replacing the existing and / or upgrading the existing railway and curves realignment. 

Greece i believe some parts to the Evzoni border they have built a new railway network with dual tracks, so there isn't that much left for the Greeks to do. 

So now back to the main thing, can i see images of the planned railway towards Niš? 
Is it gonna run parallel to the existing highway? I can see some parts with hills too. 
I believe dulevoz filmed a section of the sub - urban railway from Belgrade Center to some station which is on the route towards Niš. There were lots of curves there on some sections, and the train even ran as slow as 40 km/h on some sections. 

In the video you sent it is mentioned 2025 as the final date of this corridor, especially for Border with Hungary all the way to Niš which seems like they will finish it by then, and Niš - Macedonian Border 2027 - 2030.

And didn't Hungary have a decent railway connection to Serbia, with double tracks? 

Good job Serbia, you were ahead of time with the proper highway connections, now the new highways being built too, and same for the railway. Eventually in the future, as one user mentioned above there will be a need of extra 2 tracks and another bridge at sava, if of course Belgrade intends on running more and more Urban trains, which mix that with intercity trains and you get an increased congestion. 

Similar issue exists between Malmö and Lund where urban trains mix with both intercity and freight trains, and there's lots of congestion, and usually intercity and freight trains have to wait and let the urban trains (going from Malmö to Lund and vice versa) go first. But i believe that they are building 2 extra railways there. 
We shall see, once they finish Belgrade all the way to border with Hungary, where trains will increase.


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## Baron Hirsch

Dear Wild Boy, I think you are being a bit too friendly to Serbian infrastructure policy. While I have not been to Mak. for a long time, believe me the Serbian system in general is much more run down than down there. The videos always show the one single viaduct, trying to give the impression that all over the country heavy duty infrastructure is being implemented, but it is not. Yes, Beograd-Novi Sad will soon have infrastructure up to the standard. In the medium run, Novi Sad-Subotica will too. But as for Beograd-Niš, the line is in a terrible state, and it is hard to see any improvements from the recent construction by RZD. The short cut-off line there is mostly not even used. i have yet to see any imminent construction to change that. The side lines are even much worse, partially unusable. Well-located, much used and beautiful Belgrade Terminus was closed, while Belgrade Center opened without any serious traffic links to the rest of the city, let alone a station building. The tender for improving the line to the Bulgarian border has fallen through, setting this project back by months if not years. 
Nonetheless, let us hope Macedonian infrastructure gets upgraded before it falls as badly into disrepair as Serbia's.
And no, while much of Hungary's infrastructure is well developed, the line to Subotica was not and is in desperate need of the upgrade it is now due to receive.


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## The Wild Boy

Baron Hirsch said:


> Dear Wild Boy, I think you are being a bit too friendly to Serbian infrastructure policy. While I have not been to Mak. for a long time, believe me the Serbian system in general is much more run down than down there. The videos always show the one single viaduct, trying to give the impression that all over the country heavy duty infrastructure is being implemented, but it is not. Yes, Beograd-Novi Sad will soon have infrastructure up to the standard. In the medium run, Novi Sad-Subotica will too. But as for Beograd-Niš, the line is in a terrible state, and it is hard to see any improvements from the recent construction by RZD. The short cut-off line there is mostly not even used. i have yet to see any imminent construction to change that. The side lines are even much worse, partially unusable. Well-located, much used and beautiful Belgrade Terminus was closed, while Belgrade Center opened without any serious traffic links to the rest of the city, let alone a station building. The tender for improving the line to the Bulgarian border has fallen through, setting this project back by months if not years.
> Nonetheless, let us hope Macedonian infrastructure gets upgraded before it falls as badly into disrepair as Serbia's.
> And no, while much of Hungary's infrastructure is well developed, the line to Subotica was not and is in desperate need of the upgrade it is now due to receive.


Yes i understand you. 
But in Yugoslavia they focused on railway too.
They built double tracks across the city, while in my country they didn't. They invested in Serbia more than they did in my country when it comes for Railway, and that is completely understandable as Serbia was the head country of Yugoslavia. But simply they were ahead of their time, both with the railway and motorway running through Belgrade. 
And yes, i know that Serbia too has run down networks and railway that is in a bad state, and in desperate need of repair. 
The good thing is that Serbia at least does something, while my country does not do a single thing. 
Let's hope that that will change from pressure both from Serbia and Greece to build a better railway system.


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## No1

There is current building of new cargo terminal in Makish, Belgrade for freight railway transport of TEUs,


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## smokiboy

It was mentioned that there will be three viaducts on the Beograd - Novi Sad HSR. One at Beška, another at Čortanovac, does anyone no where the third one is?


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## TedStriker

No1 said:


> There is current building of new cargo terminal in Makish, Belgrade for freight railway transport of TEUs,


Does this mean that the idea of the Batajnica intermodal terminal is dead?


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## Theijs

smokiboy said:


> It was mentioned that there will be three viaducts on the Beograd - Novi Sad HSR. One at Beška, another at Čortanovac, does anyone no where the third one is?


Is the 3rd bridge the already constructed one?

Furher news: The Government of Serbia is planning to construct a new high-speed railway. It will facilitate the train services between Belgrade and Niš, the country’s third-largest city. The project is estimated at 2 billion euros and will be performed by China Road and Bridge Corporation (CRBC).

More info: Сhina will construct another high-speed railway in Serbia


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## smokiboy

Which is the already constructed bridge you are mentioning, the one in Novi Sad?
I was asking about a viaduct on the NS-Bgd line that is now under construction.


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## Theijs

smokiboy said:


> Which is the already constructed bridge you are mentioning, the one in Novi Sad?
> I was asking about a viaduct on the NS-Bgd line that is now under construction.


I’m talking about the EU-funded Zezeljev bridge over the Danube on the southern side of Novi Sad railway station, direction Belgrade.


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## smokiboy

Thanks Theijs, that's probably the third bridge/viaduct mentioned in the video.


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## darkangel89

There are three viaducts on Stara Pazova - Novi Sad section. There is one at Beska and two near Cortanovac, one before tunnel (smallest one of the three) and the biggest one after the tunnel. This is a cross section of the route and the tunel is yelow color rectangle while the viaducts are those parts with vertical lines.


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## smokiboy

Thanks for this darkangel89. Do you have it in higher resolution?


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## darkangel89

Unfortunately no, i would also like to see more clearer details from that cross section.


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## smokiboy

Beška viaduct on 11 August 2020.


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## No1

Works on new central belgrad railway station-Prokop


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## No1

*Agreement on Preparation of Project-Technical Documentation for Reconstruction of Bar Railway Signed with RZD*
The agreement on the preparation of project-technical documentation for the reconstruction and modernization of the Valjevo-Vrbnica-Montenegrin state border railway, otherwise known as the Bar Railway, through Serbia, of a length of 209.4 kilometers, was signed today at the Government of Serbia between the Ministry of Construction, Transport and Infrastructure and a subsidiary of the Russian Railways, RZD International, the ministry announced.

Minister Zorana Mihajlovic pointed out that Serbia had signed the agreement on the modernization of the Bar Railway with the best world company in its sector, the Russian Railways, and added that the modernization of the Bar Railway was a demanding job, as the route features 250 bridges and around 260 tunnels.
She added that she believed that, as soon as 2021, the company would also start building a modern dispatch center that Serbia needs.









Agreement on Preparation of Project-Technical Documentation for Reconstruction of Bar Railway Signed with RZD


The agreement on the preparation of project-technical documentation for the reconstruction and modernization of the Valjevo-Vrbnica-Montenegrin state border railway, otherwise known as the Bar Railway, through Serbia, of a length of 209.4




www.ekapija.com





This is one of most complex railways in Europe, strait through Dinaric to Adriatic sea.


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## No1

Travel from Belgrade to Vrsac and romanian border.


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## Theijs

This article is about metro and railway development plans in Belgrade. Google translate has difficulties with correct translation.


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## No1

Metro(podzemna on serbian) in Beograd is plan to start construcion at end 2021. French and chines companies will be build 2 lines worth 4.4 billion euros.
Railway news is that serbia want from EU credit line for 200 km railway from Beograd to Nis for speeds of 200km/h. It is extension of railway line Budapest-Beograd. If EU is not ready to give Serbia credit line serbian goverment will probably go to chines, usa or russians for credit line.


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## No1




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## davide84

No1 said:


> Railway news is that serbia want from EU credit line for 200 km railway from Beograd to Nis for speeds of 200km/h. It is extension of railway line Budapest-Beograd. If EU is not ready to give Serbia credit line serbian goverment will probably go to chines, usa or russians for credit line.


According to EuroNews, both Serbia and Hungary are already heavily using chinese loans for the Budapest-Beograd corridor:








Will the €4bn Belgrade-Budapest rail upgrade be a benefit or burden?


Without effective rail connections from Belgrade to Greece, “this railway will go from nowhere to nowhere,” says Laszlo Varju, an MP for the centre-left Democratic Coalition party. #UncoveringEurope




www.euronews.com




let's see what happens with the Nis project...


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## No1

That money is much greater amount in hungarina than serbian section.
Serbia i not part of EU. We don't want take free money for nothing, let EU bank give loans and we will back that with interest.
If that don't happend than Serbia must search on other places like USA, China and Russia. USA just enter serbian construction in big way, mostly on highways.


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## The Wild Boy

So, after all there's going to be a metro in Belgrade in the future.
Nice!

This should further decongest the urban motorway running through the city, and let's not forget the other infrastructure projects such as the Belgrade bypass, and the railway link from Niš all the way to the Hungarian border. All of these infrastructure projects should further result in decongest the Belgrade urban motorway, and drastically increase safety.


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## Bez_imena

_New project for Prokop_ railway _station_ (Belgrade)


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## Baron Hirsch

Thanks, No Name, for posting this. I must admit it looks good, at least in the renders. Lots of glass, curves rather than corners, and greenery. The question is: what is all that space supposed to be used for? Malls, offices, luxury housing? And which of these are actually in demand in Belgrade these days? If we suppose there will be a quick recovery from present depression, of course.


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## Bez_imena

Office space is planned within the station, probably for some IT companies.
Covid-19 has no influence on construction in Serbia, all projects are going normally.


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## No1

Beograd central station(Prokop)-Bataynica-Beograd central station(Prokop), this video partaly show new railway track to Novi Sad and Budapest currently under counstruction.






And this is video is about plans of new railway track to Nish on south of Serbia, speed up to 200km/h.


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## darkangel89

TedStriker said:


> Does this mean that the idea of the Batajnica intermodal terminal is dead?


It is a complementary idea.
Today they started construction of Batajnica intermodal terminal with capacity of 70k TEU. Price tag 15.5 milion euros of which 13.8 is a grant from EU, and the construction deadline is about two years.

From 16.58 there is a video of terminal


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## TedStriker

darkangel89 said:


> It is a complementary idea.
> Today they started construction of Batajnica intermodal terminal with capacity of 70k TEU. Price tag 15.5 milion euros of which 13.8 is a grant from EU, and the construction deadline is about two years.
> 
> From 16.58 there is a video of terminal


Thanks. The long-term, later stage plans (they’re available online) for the intermodal and logistics complex next to the Makis marshalling yard are really impressive. It’s fortunate that there is plenty of land available a long way from any residential areas. Nice one Serbia.


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## smokiboy

Update on the HSR line from Beograd to Novi Sad. At 2:52 to 3:44 the 3 km viaduct under construction is visible. And another view from 26:19.


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## The Wild Boy

smokiboy said:


> Update on the HSR line from Beograd to Novi Sad. At 2:52 to 3:44 the 3 km viaduct under construction is visible. And another view from 26:19.


Damn that's a large viaduct. 

I take my words back. This by European standards might not be a high speed railway, but it sure is projected to be so. 

By placing proper sound isolation, fences, and building underpasses/overpasses even in Belgrade, trains could at least run 200 km/h and out of Belgrade they could run 300 km/h. I can see that the new segments they built are sure projected for such speeds but:
Serbia doesn't have a rolling stock and engines as you all pointed out that can reach speeds of 300 km/h.
There's no European Railway Safety systems present, or whatever those were called and they are a must for high speed railway. You wouldn't want to end like that accident in Spain that occurred with a high speed train derailing at speeds over 200 km/h (because no safety system was present there and then).
And most of the signals date all the way back to Yugoslavia. 

And I'm pretty sure that there isn't a need for 300 km/h railway in Serbia too. 

What they need to focus on now is to finish this project, renovate the railway to the Hungarian border, and then start works on Belgrade - Niš railway which is equally important as Belgrade - Novi Sad. 

Also i can see on the video they showed the section from Niš to the border with my country, so i can see that they have some interest to build at least a new 160 km/h railway line through Grdelica Gorge, which will be another megaproject. Since i can see that the interests of Serbia to finish corridor 10 are high, this will sure force my country to do something with the run - down and depleted railway system in my country.


Another thing i heard some time ago was i believe either the president or that blonde girl mentioning that a new railway line would be built from Niš to Bulgarian border.
Is this true, or have i misheard something? 

I reckon hearing last year that they only wanted to electrify that railway line and nothing else. 
If it's a completely new railway line then even better. 

The Turks will and i believe are already building a high speed railway line from Istanbul to Bulgarian Border, and Bulgaria is also to begin building and upgrading some of its sections on it's railway too, i think all the way to the Serbian border.


----------



## Coryza

A high-speed corridor from Hungary all the way to Turkey is slowly progressing @TheWildBoy!

Completed:

Sofia - Elin Pelin (160-200 km/h): recently.
Plovdiv - Svilengrad (160-200 km/h): a while ago already.

In construction:

Istanbul-Kapikule (200 km/h): Construction has started from Kapikule (border Bulgaria-Turkey) and is already reaching as far as Cerkezkoy.
Belgrade-Novi Sad (200 km/h): Construction on going between Belgrade and Novi Sad.

To be starting soon:
- Novi-Sad - Subotica (200 km/h).

In planning:

Elin Pelin - Plovdiv (160-200 km/h)
Belgrade - Nis (160-200 km/h)
Nis - Dimitrovgrad (160-200 km/h)
- These contain mostly rail upgrades and widening of curves (so not a complete new line). Same as with the Belgrade - Novi Sad situation.

The missing part in here is Sofia - Kalotina, where no decision have been made. As well as Budapest-Kelebia, which is now under heavy political discussion - as they rather want a high speed railway to go through Szeged and Kecskemet.


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## The Wild Boy

I don't see how Niš - Dimitrovgrad will be a 160 to 200 km/h railway line by just upgrading the existing one, but ok. 
That section is in a really bad condition, not electrified, passes through a gorge and has lots of sharp curves. So a lot of work will have to be done there if they'll want to have it be for at least 160 km/h speeds. 

But the best case scenario is to build a completely new railway line that will follow the motorway and boom, problem solved.


----------



## Arnorian

If Niš-Dimitrovgrad gets to 120 it will be good.


----------



## Baron Hirsch

Yeah, I am also afraid, Coryza, I will have to burst your bubble. It is not enough that politicians and planners once claimed that there would be wonderful highs-peed trains on their lines someday. Actual operations have to prove it. Please have a look at the schedule of Plovdiv-Svilengrad. The best any train manages there is 100 kmh effective traveling speed from station to station. Mostly it is 75 kmh. Better than elsewhere, most especially on the very run down Serbian system, but nowhere near what we were promised before construction.


----------



## nsnikolov

The speed of the "fast" trains between Plovdiv and Svilengrad is low because BDZ make on purpose the timetable of most trains slower, so even with an engine for maximum speed of 100/110 km/h there is no problem for the train to be on time. Also the trains are often late and when the timetable is for a lower speed they have the opportunity to reach the final station on time or with little delay. Another more political reason why the trains are slow is because if they are very fast no one will travel by buses...
About the reconstruction of the line between Serbian border and Septemvri for 160 km/h, it should be ready as a whole around 2026. It was supposed to be ready by 12.2023 when the EU operational programme ends, however, that will not happen because of the huge delays and it will be finished in the next operational programme with a lot more money to be payed by Bulgaria. 
That's why I think that the Serbian part is going to be finished earlier, as the section Begrade-Subotica is supposed to be finished by the the timetable change in 12.2024.


----------



## nsnikolov

Arnorian said:


> If Niš-Dimitrovgrad gets to 120 it will be good.


Yes, really hope that in the future there will be a good train service from Sofia to Belgrade for 4-5 hours


----------



## Theijs

nsnikolov said:


> About the reconstruction of the line between Serbian border and Septemvri for 160 km/h, it should be ready as a whole around 2026. It was supposed to be ready by 12.2023 when the EU operational programme ends, however, that will not happen because of the huge delays and it will be finished in the next operational programme with a lot more money to be payed by Bulgaria.


So you are saying there is actually a plan to improve Kalotina Zapad - Sofia?


----------



## Coryza

The upgrades that I talked about all contain possibilities for tilting trains to reach 200 km/h (and regular passenger trains 160 km/h0. Many curves of the previous railway between Plovdiv and Svilengrad have been upgraded to make this possible. This also counts for the planned upgrade between Nis and Belgrade, which will see some new stretches where curves are too small as well as a tunnel between Stalac and Vitkovac. Same situation as for the Belgrade Novi Sad line.

*Edit

Imagine Sofia-Istanbul in 3 hours? Possibly Belgrade-Istanbul in 6? That would be a real game changer.


----------



## Baron Hirsch

Coryza, do you also believe in the tooth fairy? Or Santa Claus? 
200 kmh max does not make continuous operational speed of 200 kmh. The higher the max speed, the more time lost due to acceleration, braking, stops, sub-standard sections. Ideally, Sofia-Istanbul would be possible in four. Dimitrovgrad to Nis is NOT going to be 200 kmh. 
Turkish YHT do NOT have tilting functions, neither the CAF nor the Siemens ones.
One additional big problem is that the governments in the region nor at the EU level have not cooperated in order to facilitate quick cross-border operations. What you have at the borders is a big circus where the Turkish and Bulgarian policemen show their disdain to the passengers and that they have no worries about delaying a train with hundreds of passengers. Serbian border guards are different, more time-efficient. At the Georgian-Turkish border, operation of international trains has been delayed for over two years after establishing the rail link, because the two sides could not organize the passenger check. 
But nonetheless, politicians like Borisov come to the inaugurations to pronounce that within a few weeks, Bulgarian holiday travelers will go to Turkey or Greece with 230 kmh trains. And people llike you fall for them.


----------



## Coryza

I don't know where I read that Turkey had tilting High-Speed trains, but I agree that it is definitely not the case. Too bad. However, there are definitely improvements going on - not just somethign what politicians shout.






2015-BG-TM-0045-W - Innovation and Networks Executive Agency - European Commission


2015-BG-TM-0045-W




ec.europa.eu









2014-BG-TMC-0239-W - Innovation and Networks Executive Agency - European Commission


2014-BG-TMC-0239-W




ec.europa.eu









2019-BG-TMC-0201-S - Innovation and Networks Executive Agency - European Commission


2019-BG-TMC-0201-S




ec.europa.eu





https://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM...Serbia_Rail_Connectivity_Workshop_29Nov18.pdf - Which is largely in line with the European funding information.


----------



## The Wild Boy

At the end, we can all agree that there's going to be some improvements.
As long as they build and upgrade the existing railway to a standard that in the future would allow 200 km/h, they can in the future buy tilting trains and problems solved.
But yeah, Politics has a huge play here too. They will always prioritize buses and vehicles over trains, sadly :/


----------



## nsnikolov

Theijs said:


> So you are saying there is actually a plan to improve Kalotina Zapad - Sofia?


At the moment some companies are already chosen to build the line between Sofia and Dragoman. The contract for Sofia-Voluyak(for 3.5 years) was signed recently with a lot of delay because of some court cases and the contract for Voluyak-Dragoman(3.5 years) will hopefully be signet soon as the builder was chosen last month. The section Dragoman - Serbian border will be build in the next European programming period so the procedure will be announced no sooner than 2021, however, you can see the project here .


----------



## Qtya

nsnikolov said:


> the contract for Voluyak-Dragoman(3.5 years) will hopefully be signet soon as the builder was chosen last month.


Could you please provide a source for this?


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## nsnikolov

Here: https://zop.rail-infra.bg:3737/DocumentList.aspx?SXHmTXofHwAqh7E1JAZ95XgYR4f/oOKG the almost last two documents from 30.10.20 are about this. Unfortunately the page is only in Bulgarian.
Again if you understand Bulgarian or if you use а translater on your browser, you can find the procedure here:https://www.rail-infra.bg/профил-на-купувача under ОПТТИ.


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## Qtya

No worries, I'll do my best with google translate. Thank you very much!


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## smokiboy

New video from 30 November 2020 of the viaduct at Sremski Karlovci near Novi Sad. This is some of the best video I've seen so far which starts at 00:34. But the entire video is very short and worth watching for some great views of the picturesque town.


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## No1

Model of new freight terminal in Batajnica,


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## Coryza

Another upgrade for Plovdiv/Svilengrad?









Turkey and Bulgaria to double-track Plovdiv - Istanbul line


Turkey and Bulgaria have moved forward with plans to double-track the line between Plovdiv and Istanbul, which includes upgrades to the border crossing.




www.railjournal.com


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## Baron Hirsch

The initial upgrade laid a substructure between Plovdiv and Svilengrad which was capable of accommodating two tracks, but only one was laid. The extra space was left in case of increased demand need for more capacity. It seems that point in time has come now sooner than later. The question to me is whether the Turkish side intends to double-track the recently refurbished single-track line or they are referring to the 200 kmh new line u/c, which should be double-track from the start.


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## Аполон

Beograd centar - Batajnica section (reconstructed left track) 30.11.2020.


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## No1

Further work on construction of new central railway station in Beograd,


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## No1




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## The Wild Boy

Deadline of this project is next year or 2022?


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## Аполон

The Wild Boy said:


> Deadline of this project is next year or 2022?


December 2021 Belgrade - Novi Sad section


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## The Wild Boy

And when will Belgrade - Niš be tendered? Any map of where the route will go through?


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## The Wild Boy

I found this map, and i think it's the most correct and honest:









I would advise others to take all the stuff politicians say with a grain of salt, because the reality is always diferent. 

The only good thing will be if trains manage to go 160 km/h or 200 km/h without having to do constant stopping at stations and crossings. Otherwise the rest should be fine, and trains will be able to reach it's destinations on time.


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## The Wild Boy

Happy new 2021 guys!

May 2021 bring joy, health, happiness, luck and may all wishes be fulfilled!
And of course, no more covid!

Hoping to see more important projects in Serbia regarding railways inaugurated and built in the period of 2021 / 2022!

Wish you all the best, 
your dear forum member.


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## Qtya

Do guys have more info on this one?









Chinese trains proposed for upgraded Beograd – Budapest route


SERBIA: A memorandum of understanding for the future procurement of 200 km/h electric trains for the upgraded Beograd - Novi Sad - Subotica - Budapest corridor was signed by Minister of Construction, Transport & Infrastructure Tomislav Momirović and Chinese Ambassador Chen Bo on January 6. The ...




www.railwaygazette.com


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## Аполон

Someone said CRH6 trains. But I'm not sure. Rumors.


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## The Wild Boy

You mean these????

No way. I don't think a country full of corruption can get such trains. But hopefully I'm proven wrong.

BTW Here's what i could find on the internet about this trainset:
















This is what Wikipedia says:









Here's the link:








China Railway CRH6 - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org






Actually, if the Chinese can sell these trainsets for cheaper then yeah, they could be used in Serbia. As far as i managed to gather information, the vmax on these is 160 km/h, so this confirms what i have been saying the whole time (that trains won't always run on 200 km/h vmax and in - fact won't even reach a top speed of 200 km/h vmax at all).

Well unless (as Wikipedia says), there are some similar models that can go up to 250 km/h, so if those are used then it's possible that at some places trains will be able to reach 200 km/h.

Here's some more pictures of that train:

















For that type of a train, and it's use it's not bad. It's far from looking like ICE or a TGV train, but for a budget Inter - City EMU High Speed Train it's not bad.


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## Coryza

The first image on that site displays neither variant; https://d1c4d7gnm6as1q.cloudfront.n.../2/38192_rsbeogradbudapesttrainmou_952455.jpg - although it looks very high-speed-ish.


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## The Wild Boy

Coryza said:


> The first image on that site displays neither variant; https://d1c4d7gnm6as1q.cloudfront.n.../2/38192_rsbeogradbudapesttrainmou_952455.jpg - although it looks very high-speed-ish.


Probably some other model, or a completely new one, which judging by the design (it looks more bullet - ish, as you pointed it out) it could very well reach speeds up to 200 km/h.


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## Аполон

Coryza said:


> The first image on that site displays neither variant; https://d1c4d7gnm6as1q.cloudfront.n.../2/38192_rsbeogradbudapesttrainmou_952455.jpg - although it looks very high-speed-ish.


Yes, this is Fuxing CR300BF, I think


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## Coryza

CR300 series Fuxing EMU (250km/h class) is the third class of Fuxing EMU after CR400 series (350km/h class) and CR200J series (160km/h class). - 复兴号CR300BF型电力动车组 - 维基百科，自由的百科全书


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## Дisiдent

The Wild Boy said:


> No way. I don't think a country full of corruption can get such trains. But hopefully I'm proven wrong.


What has corruption to do with geting the trainsets?


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## Theijs

Дisiдent said:


> What has corruption to do with geting the trainsets?


Allocated public money will arrive in the pockets of politicians etc, instead of being invested in quality trains. (Be aware of the maintenance issues Northern Macedonia already has with Chinese locomotives and train sets).

Money that was allocated to upgrade Topicider and Kropok stations after closure of Beograd Glavni disappeared as well in the pockets...


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## eu01

Here is the archival text I've found, dated July 19, 2019


> Serbia plans to complete a project for reconstruction of the railway line linking Nis to Zajecar in August next year [2020], a government official has said.
> 
> The government intends to complete by the end of this year [2019] the revamp of the Crveni Krst-Svrljig section of the railway line around the the city of Nis (...)
> 
> "The second part of the works is carried out on the inclinations which are being prepared for the works, and the infrastructure ministry is also replacing the thresholds on 52 bridges. The works are progressing well and we expect to finish them two months earlier than planned," [Lazar Radak, an advisor to the minister of infrastructure] said.
> 
> The 108 km-long Nis-Zajecar railway line is of serious importance for the quality of passenger transport in eastern Serbia, but also for the river port of Prahovo and for copper mining and smelting company RTB Bor, he added.
> 
> _(SeeNews)_


I hope someone could shed some light on this subject; by now, has something been achieved on this line from Crveni Krst further towards Zaječar?


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## darkangel89

Last known info is from the end of April when these numbers were disclosed: 46 km of rail is layed out of 108 km total rail length. In that moment it was missing some 7 km of open rail and litle more then 3 km of station rail to complete Matejevac (Nis suburb) Knjazevac section, rail to Svrljig was essentially complete. 
But since then there is no more info on the subject which means that the work probably stoped, of course Corona is to blame (even though it was present also in April, but its great excuse). Anyway here is a nice video from April report:


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## No1

Partal video of construction Beograd-Novi Sad section,


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## smokiboy

Two renderings of the new Central Beograd Railway Station - Prokup.

Source: eKapija 19.01.2021. 
more photos & info: Predstavljen detaljan projekat za Prokop - Gradiće se stanična zgrada sa trgom, poslovni park i javna garaža (FOTO)


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## Аполон

*The Ministry of Construction, Transport and Infrastructure of Republic of Serbia has opened the tender for the procurement of electric trains for a speed of 200 km/h.*

The trains are being procured in an open procedure, for the transport on the Belgrade-Novi Sad-Subotica route, and the tender pertains to the procurement of three trains.

The tendering documentation cites the following required characteristics: length of 100 m (±5), minimum number of first and second grade seats of 300 (±5), floor and lateral walls with heating elements, windows with safety glasses, heating and sound insulation, exterior and interior LED lighting, electric sliding doors, toilets for persons with impaired movement ability, two bars in each train with devices for hot drinks and the possibility of electronic payment, Wi-Fi and a seat reservation system, PA notification system and monitors for visual notification of passengers, including a display of reserved seats on the train…

The control, diagnostics and management are done through a CAN connection and the intranet. The bidder must also organize the training for the maintenance and control of the trains.

The deadline for the delivery of the first train is October 31. The remaining two are to be delivered by December 31, 2021.

The guarantee period for all trains is two years from the operating acceptance. The bidder is obliged to maintain all the software for the duration of the guarantee period – pertaining to software for the security system, access to the main computer, diagnostics of controlling the engines, diagnostics of the doors and the toilets, the slip protection system and the air-conditioning.

The bidder is to submit a banking guarantee supporting the bid in the amount of 3% of the total offered price. After the agreement is signed, the seller hands over the banking guarantee to the purchaser confirming the proper execution of the works in the amount of 10% of the total value of the contract, without the VAT. The advance payment is made in the amount of up to 50% of the value of the contract.

Bids may be submitted by March 15, and other details of the tender can be found HERE.

Let us remind that the minister of construction, transport and infrastructure of Serbia, Tomislav Momirovic, signed the memorandum on the procurement of transportation vehicles from China with the ambassador of China to Serbia, Chen Bo, on January 6.

This memorandum of understanding on the cooperation relating to rail vehicles amounts to an agreement on the cooperation for the potential procurement of electric trains for a speed of 200 km/h, which are to operate on the future Belgrade Center-Novi Sad-Subotica railway. 









Procurement of Three Electric Trains for Speed of 200 km/h Opens – Software Control, Floor and Wall Heating, Automated Bars, LED Lighting…


The Ministry of Construction, Transport and Infrastructure has opened the tender for the procurement of electric trains for a speed of 200 km/h. The trains are being procured in an open procedure, for the transport on the Belgrade-Novi




www.ekapija.com


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## darkangel89

When you read tender conditions it is pretty obvious that they are written with Stadler KISS as a prime candidate in mind (someone would say that they copied the Westbahn 4-part variant to the letter). Only dilemma is extremely short delivery time, which may jeopardize this outcome.


https://www.stadlerrail.com/media/pdf/kiss_dowbz0110e.pdf



It is a good move, at least it's a common opinion on some forums, because it is much more suitable to our high speed line than full 250kmh HSR trains no matter from which manufacturer/country. Additional benefit is alredy having Stadler FLIRTs in use, so the maintenance would be cheaper.

Anyway, i am not a fan of our railway preferred coloring scheme but if they choose to paint KISS in that style it would look something like this and to me it looks far better than on FLIRTs.









by Student Beobuild


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## Baron Hirsch

Does it say that the trains have to be built newly? Otherwise, May to October sounds like just enough time to adapt a second-hand train to the requirements of the Serbian rail system. 
Do I understand correctly that these trains are initially just intended to make the Beograd - Novi Sad sprint? In which case, another order when the line to Subotica reopens and especially to Budapest will no doubt follow.


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## darkangel89

There is no explicit term of newly built, but the customer can conduct oversight of manufacturing process and of course public call will be sent to manufactureres. I guess it is ok if for example Stadler has some already built trains who, for some reasons are not delivered and which can be reworked for our specific requirements.
There is a condition of requested guarantee of minimum 24 months.

There is also a specifically listed route for which this purchase is made, Beograd - Novi Sad - Subotica. But since Novi Sad - Subotica section has not even started with a construction (probably will in 3/4 2021.) this three trains will run on Beograd - Novi Sad section which is quite enough for the time being. As the network continues to grow (Novi Sad - Subotica, Beograd - Nis) additional purchases are likely to folow. But i am a bit sceptic about using KISS in overborder transport so i belive that by the time we and hungarian side finish our respective lines some joint trainsets are going to be considered.

If everything goes smoothly on 15.3 proposals will be open so a production could start even in April, but the timetable is very packed.


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## nsnikolov

I currently live in Austria and I often use Westbahn. In my opinion these trains are absolutely excellent and very comfortable. I have also heard that they hardly have any problems and train drivers like them a lot. So if Serbia voz really chooses them, it will be a good decision, but I think that after all memorandums and such things they will probably choose China...


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## JumpUp

Why do they only order THREE (3!) trains?
It's impossible to run a decent train service with 3 trains


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## WLABmz

JumpUp said:


> Why do they only order THREE (3!) trains?
> It's impossible to run a decent train service with 3 trains


For Belgrade - Novi Sad train can run every hour with only 2 trains because there will be 40-45 minutes travel time, and third is a reserve. Decent enough?


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## WLABmz

nsnikolov said:


> I currently live in Austria and I often use Westbahn. In my opinion these trains are absolutely excellent and very comfortable. I have also heard that they hardly have any problems and train drivers like them a lot. So if Serbia voz really chooses them, it will be a good decision, but I think that after all memorandums and such things they will probably choose China...


The only train in the world that fits the tender parameters is 4-part Stadler KISS 200. So it will not be China. Memorandums are just propaganda news for the public...


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## darkangel89

nsnikolov said:


> I currently live in Austria and I often use Westbahn. In my opinion these trains are absolutely excellent and very comfortable. I have also heard that they hardly have any problems and train drivers like them a lot. So if Serbia voz really chooses them, it will be a good decision, but I think that after all memorandums and such things they will probably choose China...


I am glad to hear that from the first hand. In Serbia we have excellent experience with Stadler FLIRT (train drivers especially like them) so KISS would be a logical next step.

There are a couple of things that gives me hope KISS will be chosen. First, tender conditions are obviously written with him in mind and they are legally binding. Second, memorandums are not, but never the less we will need some trains for overborder service to Budapest (probably Viena too) and thats where i see chinese trains as main contenders. And third, politicians, well let's just say that this rail line (BG-BU) was first mentioned with speeds up to 300 kmh than 250 kmh and finally when professionals were included speed fell to reasonale 200 kmh (at least on our line).


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## WLABmz

darkangel89 said:


> Second, memorandums are not, but never the less we will need some trains for overborder service to Budapest (probably Viena too) and thats where i see chinese trains as main contenders.


No. For overborder service Chinese are the contenders with least chance, because they will have to construct totally new vehicle from scratch, a prototipe, according to European standards, which has to gain all the permissions for Serbia, Hungary and Austria. Very long procedure with questionable outcome! Stadler KISS is already built up to all European standards and has permission for all 3 countries. And what is most important, it is very reliable!

But anyway, for international traffic, there are 2 options for Serbia:

1) Locomotive for 200 km/h (probably Siemens Vectron) + standard carriages for 200 km/h
2) Serbia, Hungary and Austria make a deal to buy together something for running Belgrade-Budapest-Wien. It could be Viaggio Comfort (Railjet) or again Stadler KISS 200.

Anyway, Hungary and Austria don't have interest in buying something for speed higher of 160 km/h, since they don't plan higher speeds than 160 km/h on their part of the route, so I think best option for Serbia Voz is buying Vectron locomotives and new carriages for international traffic.


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## darkangel89

I do agree with you from our standpoint. But then again they did signed those memorandums with China, and it was suprise to all of us when tender requirements were published. Who knows, Hungarians are starting with Bison, maybe some passenger variant will surface after the present cargo one.

We also have some experience with chinese locomotives in EPS.

I know that KISS fulfils those conditions but i wouldn't like them to do overborder services, they are just not comfortable enough. But then again neither are FLIRTs but they still go to Prijepolje.


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## WLABmz

darkangel89 said:


> I do agree with you from our standpoint. But then again they did signed those memorandums with China, and it was suprise to all of us when tender requirements were published. Who knows, Hungarians are starting with Bison, maybe some passenger variant will surface after the present cargo one.
> 
> We also have some experience with chinese locomotives in EPS.
> 
> I know that KISS fulfils those conditions but i wouldn't like them to do overborder services, they are just not comfortable enough. But then again neither are FLIRTs but they still go to Prijepolje.


Hungarians? It is RCH, not MAV.

Did you travel with Westbahn KISS, or PKP-IC Flirt? It is totally different interior than SV Flirt. SV flirt is constructed with suburban train enterior with cheapest level of equipment. KISS 200 is with Intercity interior, with 2 bars, 3 toilets etc...Totally different story.


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## nsnikolov

This is how Wesbahn trains look like. Actually they are with 6 carriages.


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## WLABmz

nsnikolov said:


> This is how Wesbahn trains look like. Actually they are with 6 carriages.


Westbahn had also 4-carriages KISS 200, but they sold them to Deutche Bahn last year.


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## darkangel89

WLABmz said:


> Hungarians? It is RCH, not MAV.
> 
> Did you travel with Westbahn KISS, or PKP-IC Flirt? It is totally different interior than SV Flirt. SV flirt is constructed with suburban train enterior with cheapest level of equipment. KISS 200 is with Intercity interior, with 2 bars, 3 toilets etc...Totally different story.


Yes, i know but i was referring to hungarian authorities for Bison permissions. In this case it just might be better because it will probably get permissions from other countries where RC Group operates.

Maybe you are wright, maybe that is enough for some six hourse journies, but i do miss carriages.


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## Baron Hirsch

If I am aloud to dream out loud here: the recent plans of reviving the TransEuropeExpress as high-speed trains envisages a daily TEE from Paris to Budapest via Munich, Salzburg, Vienna. At 10 hours 30 minutes once all upgrades along the way are done, it has a slightly shorter parcours than other planned TEE lines and a recent study has recommended to include destinations in non-EU neighboring countries as well. Why not extend that to Beograd? The initial scheme foresees the TGV operating across the French border to be certified for Austria and Hungary, so why not Serbia as well? 
just dreaming, not no. 1 realistic scenario, I must admit, but would be a great solution.


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## Qtya

WLABmz said:


> Anyway, Hungary and Austria don't have interest in buying something for speed higher of 160 km/h, since they don't plan higher speeds than 160 km/h on their part of the route, so I think best option for Serbia Voz is buying Vectron locomotives and new carriages for international traffic.


Not true. Hungarian State Railways is planning on procuring 6(+30) 250 km/h high-speed EMUs, with delivery before 2025.

(slide 9)



https://www.nsvkonferencia.hu/dwl/5_Homolya_Robert.pdf


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## Theijs

According to President Vucic, 3 Swiss Stadler 200 double deck EMU's will be bought.

Source: Vučić: Od Novog Sada do Beograda dabldeker vozovi, karta samo 1.000 dinara | Novosadski informativni portal 021


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## Eriovay

WLABmz said:


> Anyway, Hungary and Austria don't have interest in buying something for speed higher of 160 km/h, since they don't plan higher speeds than 160 km/h on their part of the route, so I think best option for Serbia Voz is buying Vectron locomotives and new carriages for international traffic.


I find that surprising, that they're not planning to up the speeds higher, coming from ages of very low speeds. If you spend all this money on something you haven't been spending for decades then you'd want to get it done right and good, no? Ofcourse it'll work just fine and nice despite this, but 160 km/h feels kinda meh for a brand new line, I'd put it at 200 km/h, that would make a good compromise, besides you don't have to run locomotives that fast initially, such projects always benefit from some early future-proof investment, it can pay off a lot down the line.

Similar in Slovenia, the upgrades, which are major ones, full track replacements and all the signaling and stuff that goes with it, so it's practically like a brand new line. They also go 160 km/h max, which I found disappointing as well. When you're renovating the whole thing once after so many years, it doesn't cost that much to make it more solid. Also they did not ease any corners either (requires changes the route, land stuff) none of that was done where the route is very swigly, seems like a wasted opportunity.

One of the arguments is the distances aren't long enough, ... well domestic ones true, but international it would make a difference.


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## Theijs

Eriovay said:


> One of the arguments is the distances aren't long enough (to drive 200 km/h), ... well domestic ones true, but international it would make a difference.


Well, Serbia has 200 km/h passenger wagons, but they have been downgraded to 160 km/h as the maintenance is too expensive.

Both national and international trains do stop only at the big stations. So if it doesn't make sence for domestic distances (Beograd - Novi Sad), why would it make a difference for international trains Beograd - Novi - Sad - Subotica and further into Hungary?

In Bulgaria the line between Sofia direction Istanbul is upgraded to 160 km/h and only with tilting trains 200 km/h can be reached. But are those high speeds necessary? Do the high costs (expand electricity capacity, maintenance) justify a travel reduction of only a few minutes?

I think we should dare to be satisfied with the proposed increased speed from current level to 160 km/h.


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## Theijs

Some news about maintenance on the Serbian branch line Nis - Zajecar: The line should be ready by June 2021.

Source: Ministar Momirović: Očekujem da prugu Niš-Zaječar završimo u junu | Radio Magnum 103 MHz


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## Baron Hirsch

Theijs said:


> In Bulgaria the line between Sofia direction Istanbul is upgraded to 160 km/h and only with tilting trains 200 km/h can be reached. But are those high speeds necessary? Do the high costs (expand electricity capacity, maintenance) justify a travel reduction of only a few minutes?
> 
> I think we should dare to be satisfied with the proposed increased speed from current level to 160 km/h.


It is not enough just to build tracks according to a possible max speed. What is needed is a concept to coordinate and ensure rail operations at a certain speed will become a reality. To take the case of Plovdiv-Svilengrad: When reconstruction started, it was hyped that a train from Plovdiv to the Turkish border would take only 1 hour in future. Many years after the project is officially completed, you will find that the fastest train of the day still takes 1 hour 45 minutes. What went wrong? Possibly signaling is not up to the standard the rails would need (especially east of Dimitrovgrad, speeds seem little faster than they were before renovation). What is more, BDZ had initially no single locomotive capable of doing 160 kmh, 120 kmh being the limit. Nobody ever seriously considered buying tilting trains for 200 kmh in Bulgaria either. But 120 kmh would have been a start, if only the trains would only stop at every large town. Instead, so-called fast trains stop much more often than they used to, as new stations have been built and BDZ does not differentiate as much as they used to between "fast" and regional services. This line is just an example, there are many cases, including in countries with otherwise immaculate services such as Switzerland, where infrastructure is designed over the top for what actually operates on those lines; or as in the the case of Turkey, countries which buy trains capable of 300 kmh, even though the fastest lines in the country only do 250 kmh and the trend is towards 200 kmh on new infrastructure.
If Serbian Railways in the near future have tracks for 160 kmh, the rolling stock to go with it, and signaling and a schedule that actually allow express trains to operate at 160 kmh, much would be won and i think there would be no need to lament the lost opportunity of purely hypothetically faster infrastructure.


----------



## Theijs

Baron Hirsch said:


> It is not enough just to build tracks according to a possible max speed. What is needed is a concept to coordinate and ensure rail operations at a certain speed will become a reality.


So the question for Serbia is, does the tender include a proper design of signaling, that enables operating a timetable that includes paths for Intercity, local and freight trains.

For the repair works done by RZD international it did not. Maybe this has been left to the Chinese to fix with the upgrade (Subotica - Novi Sad - ) Belgrade - Nis.


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## Аполон

Belgrade - Budapest (Belgrade - Novi Sad section) 







Novi Sad - Subotica section 
*Preparations Ahead of Beginning of Construction of Railway from Novi Sad to Subotica – Contractors Have 33 Months for 108 km Section*
The construction of a high-speed railway from Belgrade to Novi Sad is entering its final phase, so that the job would be done by the end of the year, and parallel with this, the preparations for the beginning of the works on the section between Novi Sad and Subotica are being made, the Serbian Railways Infrastructure company announces.

The management and the expert services of the Serbian Railways Infrastructure and representatives of the consortium of China Railway International and China Communications Construction Company have discussed the preparatory activities that need to be done before the beginning of the works and the beginning of the works in Novi Sad, the storage of the materials for the reconstruction of the railway, as well as the development of the Novi Sad railway station.

They also visited the station and the room which will house the future tele-control center.

They also discussed the possibility of forming a camp for the staff that will be hired for the construction of the fast railway.

The Novi Sad-Subotica railway, 108 kilometers long, is the third section through Serbia within the international project of the construction of the Belgrade-Budapest high-speed railway.

The value of the agreement is around USD 1.16 billion, and the deadline period for the execution of the works is 33 months from their beginning. The contractor is the consortium of China Railway International and China Communications Construction Company, and the financing agreement was signed with the Chinese Exim Bank.









Preparations Ahead of Beginning of Construction of Railway from Novi Sad to Subotica – Contractors Have 33 Months for 108 km Section


The construction of a high-speed railway from Belgrade to Novi Sad is entering its final phase, so that the job would be done by the end of the year, and parallel with this, the preparations for the beginning of the works on the section




www.ekapija.com


----------



## smokiboy

Nearly three years for 108 kilometers of new track on flat terrain seems a very long time. Those of you who are familiar with this sort of construction timetable please correct me if I am wrong.


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## Qtya

Аполон said:


> The management and the expert services of the Serbian Railways Infrastructure and representatives of the consortium of China Railway International and China Communications Construction Company have discussed the preparatory activities that need to be done before the beginning of the works and the beginning of the works in Novi Sad, the storage of the materials for the reconstruction of the railway, as well as *the development of the Novi Sad railway station*.


Are there any development plans, renders available?


----------



## Аполон

Qtya said:


> Are there any development plans, renders available?


----------



## nsnikolov

smokiboy said:


> Nearly three years for 108 kilometers of new track on flat terrain seems a very long time. Those of you who are familiar with this sort of construction timetable please correct me if I am wrong.


In Bulgaria they are currently modernizing around 25 km from "Sofia" to "Elin Pelin" and it was supposed to be done for exactly 3 years...however they didn't manage to do it so fast


----------



## The Wild Boy

nsnikolov said:


> In Bulgaria they are currently modernizing around 25 km from "Sofia" to "Elin Pelin" and it was supposed to be done for exactly 3 years...however they didn't manage to do it so fast


Welcome to the Balkans!


----------



## Stuu

smokiboy said:


> Nearly three years for 108 kilometers of new track on flat terrain seems a very long time. Those of you who are familiar with this sort of construction timetable please correct me if I am wrong.


I would say it sounds about right, probably a bit quick if anything. Two years for civil engineering - even in flat land there will be embankments which need to stabilise before laying tracks etc. Then another year for rail infrastructure and testing at least. I would be surprised if it is done on time, but it's not impossible


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## Qtya

Аполон said:


> View attachment 1158735
> 
> 
> View attachment 1158737


Thank you!


----------



## Аполон




----------



## Theijs

Аполон said:


> Speed limit Beograd - Novi Sad:


Is there already a map available with proposed speed limits Novi Sad - Subotica and Beograd - Nis, based on the tenders for these works?


----------



## smokiboy

Surprising that Batajnica to Zemun isn't 160 km/h.


----------



## The Wild Boy

smokiboy said:


> Surprising that Batajnica to Zemun isn't 160 km/h.


Well, it's an urban area and it has at - grade train crossings, goes closer to houses, and it's just dangerous to raise the speed limit to 160 km/h or more. Plus the amount of noise trains will produce will increase of course. For this, they will also have to install sound barriers as well, and proper signaling of course.


----------



## No1

Batajnica i Zemun are part of Beograd,, that is inside city so that is reason for speed limit i guess.


----------



## Arnorian

A few pictures of the works on Belgrade-Novi Sad railway. All pictures by Dušan Vujović, and many more here.


----------



## Arnorian




----------



## Arnorian

The Wild Boy said:


> Well, it's an urban area and it has at - grade train crossings, goes closer to houses, and it's just dangerous to raise the speed limit to 160 km/h or more.


The plan is to not have any at-grade crossings between Belgrade and Novi Sad. But I'm not sure if that can be managed in time. The main problem is in at Batajnica.


----------



## smokiboy

Does anyone know what the purpose of this tunnel is? I think it is on the path of the old rail line route. But why did they make it into a tunnel?


----------



## The Wild Boy

smokiboy said:


> Does anyone know what the purpose of this tunnel is? I think it is on the path of the old rail line route. But why did they make it into a tunnel?


Underpass for cars or farming vehicles / tractors?


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## smokiboy

But the whole viaduct is an underpass, why the tunnel?


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## Arnorian

Maybe the angle is too acute to fit through the pillars (the span would need to be too large), so a box was necessary.

The same situation: Google Maps


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## smokiboy

Thanks Arnorian, that could very well be it.


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## Dikan011

Like everything in Serbia, few decades late, but we typically finish what we start..eventually.

Serbian high speed rail project was first announced in 1991. Here's an old video from 1998 about it:


----------



## Eriovay

Are those manual track switches, which I do like the idea of, for backup or they want to save money in that railyard, though wouldn't paying switcher guys cost more in long-term?


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## Arnorian

Surly for backup. 200 km/h with manual switching doesn't make sense.


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## No1

Overpass in Novi Sad is finsihed, it is part of new railway Beograd-Budapest


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## Dikan011

I can't wait for this project to be finished so RZD can move on to more important projects, such as the overhaul and upgrade of the Belgrade-Bar railway, or more precisely, Valjevo-Vrbnica.


----------



## Theijs

No1 said:


> Overpass in Novi Sad is finsihed, it is part of new railway Beograd-Budapest.


What is the task division between RZD International and the Chinese with regard to upgrading the railway Beograd - Subotica?


----------



## Baron Hirsch

The urban rail network of Belgrade is being done by Chinese companies, the part from the city limits to Novi Sad by RZD, and Novi Sad to Subotica will be done by Chinese companies.


----------



## Theijs

Baron Hirsch said:


> The urban rail network of Belgrade is being done by Chinese companies, the part from the city limits to Novi Sad by RZD, and Novi Sad to Subotica will be done by Chinese companies.


Coming back to a previous discussion: 
Which signaling, safety and security system will be installed? ERTMS? And all provided by the same company from Subotica to Beograd?

I ask this, because on the High Speed Line from Netherlands to Belgium 2 different companies provided this, which let to problems at the switching point at the border. Trains failed to connect with the system of ‘the other’ company and as a result the trains performed an emergency break and had to be reset each time, causing delays...


----------



## Arnorian

Baron Hirsch said:


> The urban rail network of Belgrade is being done by Chinese companies, the part from the city limits to Novi Sad by RZD, and Novi Sad to Subotica will be done by Chinese companies.


Not Belgrade city limits, halfway between Stara Pazova and Inđija (where track towards west split off).


----------



## The Wild Boy

I see on the Serbian sub - forum here that they plan to do quad tracks at and near Belgrade. That is great, and this really shows that they want to invest in having the commuter railway completely separated from the international / intercity railway. 

So if there really is, or will be a lot of traffic there, then they will have to build another new railway bridge. All that will cost money of course. And surely, you want to keep the fast trains away from the slower commuter trains. No one will want to drive slow behind the commuter trains. 
Btw for that project that they consider doing, is there really that much of ridership on bgvoz? Like do a lot of people actually use the commuter railway in Belgrade? If so, why hasn't it relieved the congestion on the Belgrade urban motorway? The commuter railway already connects to plenty of stations. 


At the end of the day, Belgrade needs the metro as soon as possible.


----------



## Arnorian

The Wild Boy said:


> I see on the Serbian sub - forum here that they plan to do quad tracks at and near Belgrade. That is great, and this really shows that they want to invest in having the commuter railway completely separated from the international / intercity railway.
> 
> So if there really is, or will be a lot of traffic there, then they will have to build another new railway bridge. All that will cost money of course. And surely, you want to keep the fast trains away from the slower commuter trains. No one will want to drive slow behind the commuter trains.
> Btw for that project that they consider doing, is there really that much of ridership on bgvoz? Like do a lot of people actually use the commuter railway in Belgrade? If so, why hasn't it relieved the congestion on the Belgrade urban motorway? The commuter railway already connects to plenty of stations.
> 
> At the end of the day, Belgrade needs the metro as soon as possible.


Four-track railway is U/C between Batajnica and Stara Pazova. This is necessary because the railways coming from north and west have two tracks each, and there would be a bottleneck is this section is is left at two track. It was announced recently that From Batajnica to New Belgrade railway station the track will also be doubled to four, for the use of the urban train lines. The plan is to have the Batajnica-Ovča line at 10 minutes peak/20 minutes off-peak. There was talk about doubling the remaining section between New Belgrade and Belgrade Center, which would mean a four-track railway from Belgrade Center to Star Pazova, about 30 km. This last part will be the most expensive and complicated, as a twin of the New rail bridge over the Sava will need to be built. No timeline is given.

Belgrade's urban rail lines are quite heavily used. I think the travel times will decrease further when the current work is done, so it will become even more competitive, even to driving a car, as traffic jams on the bridges are common at peak times. New stations will be added too. Two of them for now between Zemun and Batajnica. When doubling is done probably a few more.

The 10/20 minutes timing is not needed on the Ovča end of the line, so an option is to finish the Karaburma branch (in red), for which the beginnings of branching side tunnels were built when Vračar tunnel was constructed (in magenta). A station or two would be added for Karaburma (in yellow) which is a large neighborhood of 60k inhabitants, which is set to increase significantly when the area between it and the river is developed.










I think this would be a realistic layout of the two urban rail lines some day when Belgrade Center-Batajnica has four tracks.


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## The Wild Boy

Yeah i see. Maybe the French can help finish the line to Karabuma, as they are showing high interest in both of building the Metro and interest in renovating / building Railway.

Belgrade New Station when finished will also look great.

All this together with the upcoming metro in 5 - 15 years, and the other various infrastructure projects (such as the ada huja bridge, underground tunnels, belgrade bypass, and what not...) should finally de - congest the city's congested motorway (and some of the boulevards) and relive traffic.
Great!


----------



## Arnorian

The Wild Boy said:


> Yeah i see. Maybe the French can help finish the line to Karabuma, as they are showing high interest in both of building the Metro and interest in renovating / building Railway.


The French will not be doing object construction works on the metro. They will be doing power supply, signaling, and train sets. The Chinese will be doing the construction of tunnels and stations.


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## smokiboy

Is the Karaburma branch planned to go further east? If so, how far?


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## Arnorian

smokiboy said:


> Is the Karaburma branch planned to go further east? If so, how far?


No. There are large hills to the east.


----------



## nsnikolov

Does anyone have any information what's happening with the reconstruction of the Nis-Dimitrovgrad railway line?
When is it supposed to begin?


----------



## Dikan011

Belgrade-Novi Sad HSR:


----------



## Qtya

Nice, but its not a HSR.


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## Dikan011

Sure, but in general sense when talking strictly about Serbia - where railway infrastructure was neglected for decades and where average speeds have been reduced to 30-40 km/h on most lines - it is a quantum leap.

Maybe in some not too distant future, when economic situation allows it, we might see true HSR.


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## rheintram

Looks great - especially the bridge!


----------



## The Wild Boy

Dikan011 said:


> Sure, but in general sense when talking strictly about Serbia - where railway infrastructure was neglected for decades and where average speeds have been reduced to 30-40 km/h on most lines - it is a quantum leap.
> 
> Maybe in some not too distant future, when economic situation allows it, we might see true HSR.


Yes. If the radius of this fast line from Belgrade to Novi Sad is built and projected with smooth curves, then in the future all it could probably take is just upgrading or adding safety systems (if they are not present) to achieve speeds up to 300 km/h. 

As far as i can see with the image it is, and there will be all underpasses / overpasses on the line from Belgrade to Novi Sad which further increases safety, as there will be no more broken at - level crossings present. And of course, trains will still have to run slower when they enter Belgrade for safety reasons.


----------



## Theijs

In this movie one can see that the new railway runs close along the Danube. 








-Any risks for flooding at the section shown in this screenshot?
-Where does the old line between Belgrade and Novi Sad run near this place?


----------



## AlbertJP

According to OpenStreetMap this is on the old railway route, and the two routes diverge in front of the white buildings in the distance: OpenStreetMap


----------



## fabianvendrig

Theijs said:


> Allocated public money will arrive in the pockets of politicians etc, instead of being invested in quality trains. (Be aware of the maintenance issues Northern Macedonia already has with Chinese locomotives and train sets).
> 
> Money that was allocated to upgrade Topicider and Kropok stations after closure of Beograd Glavni disappeared as well in the pockets...


Source ?


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## The Wild Boy

fabianvendrig said:


> Source ?


Facts. No need for source here.


----------



## fabianvendrig

The Wild Boy said:


> Facts. No need for source here.


I am talking about this one :
_Money that was allocated to upgrade Topicider and Kropok stations after closure of Beograd Glavni disappeared as well in the pockets..._


----------



## Arnorian

Theijs said:


> In this movie one can see that the new railway runs close along the Danube.
> View attachment 1283747
> 
> -Any risks for flooding at the section shown in this screenshot?
> -Where does the old line between Belgrade and Novi Sad run near this place?


No risk of flooding. The Danube was high when that video was filmed, and the opposite bank is low with a flood plain beyond it, and can take any rise.


----------



## Theijs

fabianvendrig said:


> Source ?


My source was you, Fabian!


----------



## fabianvendrig

Theijs said:


> My source was you, Fabian!


Sure 😅 ;-).


----------



## fabianvendrig

Does anyone has an idea when the Stadler KISS will be delivered to Serbia ?


----------



## nsnikolov

fabianvendrig said:


> Does anyone has an idea when the Stadler KISS will be delivered to Serbia ?


I thing I read somewhere that they will be delivered in Autumn before the winter timetable change.


----------



## Robi_damian

Arnorian said:


> Four-track railway is U/C between Batajnica and Stara Pazova. This is necessary because the railways coming from north and west have two tracks each, and there would be a bottleneck is this section is is left at two track. It was announced recently that From Batajnica to New Belgrade railway station the track will also be doubled to four, for the use of the urban train lines. The plan is to have the Batajnica-Ovča line at 10 minutes peak/20 minutes off-peak. There was talk about doubling the remaining section between New Belgrade and Belgrade Center, which would mean a four-track railway from Belgrade Center to Star Pazova, about 30 km. This last part will be the most expensive and complicated, as a twin of the New rail bridge over the Sava will need to be built. No timeline is given.
> 
> Belgrade's urban rail lines are quite heavily used. I think the travel times will decrease further when the current work is done, so it will become even more competitive, even to driving a car, as traffic jams on the bridges are common at peak times. New stations will be added too. Two of them for now between Zemun and Batajnica. When doubling is done probably a few more.
> 
> The 10/20 minutes timing is not needed on the Ovča end of the line, so an option is to finish the Karaburma branch (in red), for which the beginnings of branching side tunnels were built when Vračar tunnel was constructed (in magenta). A station or two would be added for Karaburma (in yellow) which is a large neighborhood of 60k inhabitants, which is set to increase significantly when the area between it and the river is developed.
> 
> View attachment 1259759
> 
> 
> I think this would be a realistic layout of the two urban rail lines some day when Belgrade Center-Batajnica has four tracks.
> 
> View attachment 1259785


Why does the Northern end stop at Ovca? Would it not make so much sense to extend to Pancevo?


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## Arnorian

Robi_damian said:


> Why does the Northern end stop at Ovca? Would it not make so much sense to extend to Pancevo?


It is possible, there are two tracks to there. A regional line is moree likely, like Mladenovac-Pančevo. Not enough trains at the moment.


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## smokiboy

It is really a shame the railway line runs so close to the river's edge. Not even enough room for a pedestrian pathway. Could they not have moved the railway alignment at least 20-30 metres (if not more) inland?


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## The Wild Boy

smokiboy said:


> It is really a shame the railway line runs so close to the river's edge. Not even enough room for a pedestrian pathway. Could they not have moved the railway alignment at least 20-30 metres (if not more) inland?


Yeah i agree. 

But even in socialist Yugoslavia they used to build most of the railway lines next to rivers. Look at Zagreb - Ljubljana railway line for example. Or the Skopje - Veles / Demir Kapija - Gevgelija railway line. 

Maybe they can extend and build a concrete path there, right next to the railway line. 
It's not like it's impossible.


----------



## Baron Hirsch

Those railway lines you refer to are 19th century, pre-Yugoslavia. The first was commissioned in 1862 in the Habsburg Empire. The second was built by my namesake in 1876 or so under commission in the Ottoman Empire. In mid-19th century, it was quite common to use river valleys as relatively flat terrain to avoid the cost of more expensive engineering work. Especially in the tight Vardar Valley, an elevated route would immediately have increased costs and construction time. 
In today's railway construction, it is usually property rights that determine the course of infrastructure routes. It is often more expedient to destroy nature, rather than negotiate the sale and demolition of built-up land. Those forests along the Danube were quite beautiful and I assume ecologically valuable. It is a shame that they were sacrificed. But in the densely built-up territory surrounding Novi Sad, I suspect the planners were reluctant to search for other possibilities.


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## Arnorian

The railway is so near the riverbank only for about two kilometers, with trees still standing next to water on half of that. There is a large nature preserve on the other bank, stretching for about 20 km. There was no other option, as the hills rise quite steeply away from the riverbank at that point.


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## Baron Hirsch

Thanks for clarifying that, Arnorian, and for the map. So the only alternative would have been another expensive tunnel, which would also have had to bypass the historic town of Sremski Karlovci. And if one misses the kind of vegetation that used to be in this place, one can still find it on the other bank of the river.


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## The Wild Boy

Well at least the view will be great. Riding on a train at 160 - 200 km/h by the river, and on the other side a national park. 

The impact this fast railway will have from Belgrade to Novi Sad will be huge.


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## Dikan011

Reminds me of of Derry-Coleraine railway in Ireland....


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## Dikan011

Looks like Stadler Rail, the sole bidder, was awarded the contract to supply three 200 km/h-capable trainsets today, total price ~62,2 million euros. Twenty-one million euros per trainset.

Bloody hell.


----------



## smokiboy

Was there a tender for this?


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## Dikan011

Supposedly. So they say.


----------



## Qtya

Could someone please give a status update on the Subotica - Horgos (-Szeged) railway line?


----------



## Coryza

Qtya said:


> Could someone please give a status update on the Subotica - Horgos (-Szeged) railway line?


Sure! Nothing happened.


----------



## fabianvendrig

smokiboy said:


> Was there a tender for this?


Yes thee was. More info here (use g translate) ; Dodeljen ugovor: Srbija za tri Štadlerova voza plaća 62,19 miliona evra


----------



## Dikan011

New section of railway , as well as rail test track, will be built near city of Kragujevac, to serve the needs of "Mind Park" industrial park, where among others, Siemens Mobility has based a rolling stock manufacturing facility.




> *Construction of the new railway Sobovica - Lužnice begins at the end of the year *
> 
> Kragujevac
> Saturday, April 3, 2021
> 
> The length of the new railway line from MIND Park Sobovica to Cvetojevac will be about 13.7 km, and the test line 1.7 km. In addition to freight traffic, passenger traffic will also take place, since the construction of three stops is also planned. The exact value of the investment will be known after the completion of the preliminary project with the study, and the beginning of construction works is planned for the end of this year. This project of construction of the railway line infrastructure facility of the railway Sobovica - Lužnice - branch Batočina in Kragujevac, by the conclusion of the Government of the Republic of Serbia, was declared of special importance for our country. In order to respect the legal procedures and start the construction, on the initiative of the mayor of Kragujevac Nikola Dasic, a meeting was held this week in the City Assembly hall with all holders of public authority who will be involved in this process. - Preparations have begun on designing the construction of a new railway and test track, said Aleksandar Milošević, assistant mayor for the realization of capital projects and cooperation with the Government of the Republic of Serbia. This capital project is initiated by the Government of the Republic of Serbia with the support of the Cabinet of the President of Serbia in coordination with the relevant Ministry of Construction, Transport and Infrastructure with the support of the city of Kragujevac. The new railway and test line will be owned by the state and used by the PE "Serbian Railway Infrastructure" Ltd. The construction of this railway is expected to reduce the costs of transporting raw materials, goods and finished products, ie trams that will leave Siemens for Europe.


Mind Park


----------



## Qtya

Coryza said:


> Sure! Nothing happened.


 Thank you. I though it was already tendered for construction or something.


----------



## Qtya

Serbia to order 200 km/h double-deck EMUs


SERBIA: Stadler has been named as sole bidder for a contract to supply three 200 km/h double-deck electric multiple-units to national passenger operator Srbija Voz for use on the modernised Beograd - Novi Sad route. The tender launched by the Ministry of Construction, Transport & Infrastructure ...




www.railwaygazette.com


----------



## The Wild Boy

I have a question. Why have they decided to order those Double Decker EMU Trains, instead of those Chinese bullet trains? Are the Chinese one more expensive? 

Now don't get me wrong, that STADLER looks nice, but it does not make a sense to put a train that's mostly used for commuter railway, on a fast railway from Belgrade to Novi Sad. 

If you ask me, a bullet train would've suited more. Plus if they ordered the 250 km/h or 300 km/h vmax variant, in the future if they increased the speeds they wouldn't have to buy new trainsets again. 


I see that the same trainsets range from 13 - 15m EUR in other European countries, but in Serbia they purchased them for around 20m EUR. There's clearly something fishy going on, and we all know what's really happening. 

This is basically a similar story in my country. We have those 3 - 4 new Chinese trains (they are not very new anymore...) and they are being used on lines that take more than 2 hours, which is pointless. Even the older coaches with beds in them are more comfortable. The new trains just feel like you're in a bus, but being driven on a longer distance. This is a bad move with ordering trains that are not supposed to be used on those lines, but rather on commuter railway. They would've suited BeoVoz more, than having them on intercity railway. Again a big mistake, and a huge amount of money spent on nothing.


----------



## Dikan011

We are ordering both, don't worry. ☕
Stalder is just a stop gap solution.


----------



## The Wild Boy

Dikan011 said:


> We are ordering both, don't worry. ☕
> Stalder is just a stop gap solution.


Great news then! 

So one day when Serbia orders those CRH bullet trains, they can just re - assign those double decker STADLER to BeoVoz or other local lines.


----------



## Dikan011

Well no, don't confuse things now, these are not your usual commuter trains.
And neither BG:Voz or other regional lines really need trains for 200 km/h.

So, they will stay on lines upgraded for such speeds - but more will definitely be ordered.


----------



## The Wild Boy

Dikan011 said:


> Well no, don't confuse things now, these are not your usual commuter trains.
> And neither BG:Voz or other regional lines really need trains for 200 km/h.
> 
> So, they will stay on lines upgraded for such speeds - but more will definitely be ordered.


Yes i know. But the way those STADLER sets look like, they are very commuter - ish, and for me at least such trains don't make sense to be used on "high speed" railway. 
Either ways i believe they look different from the inside, and are not too crammed (like on a bus, or commuter train). 


It would be amazing one day traveling 200 km/h from Niš, through Belgrade to Novi Sad on a bullet train. Serbia has really come a long way.


----------



## Theijs

The Wild Boy said:


> It would be amazing one day traveling 200 km/h from Niš, through Belgrade to Novi Sad on a bullet train. Serbia has really come a long way.


Indeed, although any European constructed train with long distance comfort would be great for this route. 160 km/h will do as well 

Perhaps Stadler can order the seats used in the Czech Railjets from manufacture Borcad:








Flexio | BORCAD







www.borcad.cz




But I think the bid of Stadler offers already the choice of seats for this tender of Srbija Voz.

I’m wondering what the travel time will be...


----------



## darkangel89

Qtya said:


> Could someone please give a status update on the Subotica - Horgos (-Szeged) railway line?


Last info is from Vucic, saying that construction should start in September and that there are 4.500 plots that need to be expropriatied first before construction could begin. As you can imagine our public administration is not among the better things that we can offer.

Personaly, as someone who uses that line, i belive that construction would not start before next year.


----------



## Theijs

Why do they need to be expropriate ground / soil for a 28 km long railway between Subotica and Horgoš that is already there?


----------



## Dikan011

After Russia's State Railways (RZD), another large Russian company interested in Serbian railways modernization plans, this time to do with planned ~one billion euro investment into Belgrade's commuter rail network:



> *Russian Company Sinara Interested in Development and Modernization of BG Voz – Plan Includes 39 New Trains, Reconstruction and Building of Tracks*
> 
> 
> An interstate agreement between Serbia and Russia, which will enable the participation of Russian companies in the project of development and modernization of BG Voz, should be signed by this summer, it was said at the meeting of a Belgrade delegation and the Serbian minister in charge of innovations and technical development, Nenad Popovic, with the company Sinara Transport Machines, which is interested in taking part in that project, Beoinfo reports.
> 
> – We discussed the concrete realization of this project. According to the plan made by the Russian government, within two to three weeks, they will propose an interstate agreement to our government. When the agreement goes through the necessary procedure in Serbia, it might be signed in May or June already – said the deputy mayor of Belgrade, Goran Vesic.
> 
> He said that, in Belgrade, at that moment, there were around 2.5 million passengers using the public transport daily, without a subway or a developed suburban rail system, that all the public transport vehicles traveled over 460,000 kilometers each day and that it was necessary for the transport system to develop further.
> 
> – The plan is for the cooperation on the construction of the BG Voz system to start in March 2023 in three phases. There will be a total of 39 new trains, over 230 kilometers of tracks will be reconstructed and nearly 80 kilometers of new tracks will be built. Once this is all done, by 2030, there will be two new subway lines and a fully developed BG Voz, which will not only cover the section between Batajnica and Ovca, but also the route to Pancevo. There will be many more trains on the routes to Lazarevac and Barajevo, as well as Mladenovac and Sopot, and the center of Surcin and the airport, as well as Obrenovac, will be connected with the city center – Vesic said.
> 
> Sinara Transport Machines owner Dmitry Pumpyansky said that, at the meeting, they had discussed the perspectives of the development of a very serious project for Belgrade and Serbia, which is called “Belgrade Diameter” and is currently being considered.
> 
> – We are considering having various companies from different countries taking part in the project, including Russian companies. We have informed the Serbian management that Sinara has all the competences for taking part in that project, regarding both the construction and the delivery, servicing and maintenance of trains – Pumpyansky said.


----------



## Dikan011

Theijs said:


> Why do they need to be expropriate ground / soil for a 28 km long railway between Subotica and Horgoš that is already there?


I believe he confused it with Novi Sad - Subotica - Kelebija railroad.
That's where expropriation is currently being undertaken, with construction to start as soon as Belgrade-Novi Sad section is finished.

As for Subotica-Horgos, it's not entirelycorrect that nothing has been done - a sum has already been set aside from the 2021 budget and it just remains to be put to tender. Total cost mentioned for this project is ~3 billion dinars (~25 million EUR)


----------



## darkangel89

My bad, i read Subotica and somehow my brain automatically connected question with Novi Sad - Subotica line.

Last info regarding Subotica - Horgos line is from a couple days ago when the goverment adopted an act about criteria for strategic partner on that line. Some interesting infos are the required 50% of materials/employees etc of serbian origin and 14 months deadline for construction.


----------



## keber

Dikan011 said:


> Looks like Stadler Rail, the sole bidder, was awarded the contract to supply three 200 km/h-capable trainsets today, total price ~62,2 million euros. Twenty-one million euros per trainset.
> 
> Bloody hell.


Probably this is the price surcharge because that is very small order and delivery is expected in just 6-9 months. Normal waiting times for such trainsets are currently about 2 years. Hungarian version of Stadler Kiss with almost double capacity will cost about 15 m euro per piece. Bigger the order, lower the price per piece.
Also most European manufacturers are full with new train orders for years.
Chinese trainsets are probably not yet certified for use on EU train networks (aka they are not interoperable, yet).


----------



## Dikan011

Yep - so basically they started building a new railway and then 6 months before the planned opening, they realize they've forgotten to order new trains for it. 🤣 🤣 🤣 

So typical.


----------



## Dikan011

Couple of new images of what new Stadler trains for Serbian Railways will look like:


----------



## The Wild Boy

Regarding the Belgrade - Nis railway, i have some questions:
Which route will they chouse / have chosen?








On the map, it can be seen clearly, 2 separate railway lines towards belgrade.
The 2nd one (as marked) goes to a more flatter land, connects 2 bigger cities , but the 1st one goes through a more harder land (hills, some mountains???), but connects multiple smaller cities. 

If you ask me, I'd go with the 1st one as it will be more scenic, it will involve more work, but then again it also goes directly to the Knezevac and Rakovica railway station which provides a more direct access to Belgrade.


----------



## Dikan011

And here we go....tender for Subotica-Horgos railway:



> Tuesday
> 13.04.2021
> 
> *An invitation announced for the selection of a strategic partner for the reconstruction and modernization of the Subotica-Szeged railway *
> 
> The Ministry of Construction, Transport and Infrastructure has announced a public call for the selection of a strategic partner for the implementation of the Subotica - Horgos - Hungarian border (Szeged) Railway Reconstruction and Modernization Project.
> 
> The selected partner should complete the work within 14 months from the date of introduction to the job, as well as use at least 50% of domestic material, hire domestic labor, subcontractors etc.
> 
> *The deadline for submitting applications is May 6, and their opening will be held on May 7.* The applicant may be a domestic or foreign legal entity, or a consortium of domestic or foreign legal entities.


----------



## Arnorian

The Wild Boy said:


> Regarding the Belgrade - Nis railway, i have some questions:
> Which route will they chouse / have chosen?
> View attachment 1343195
> 
> On the map, it can be seen clearly, 2 separate railway lines towards belgrade.
> The 2nd one (as marked) goes to a more flatter land, connects 2 bigger cities , but the 1st one goes through a more harder land (hills, some mountains???), but connects multiple smaller cities.
> 
> If you ask me, I'd go with the 1st one as it will be more scenic, it will involve more work, but then again it also goes directly to the Knezevac and Rakovica railway station which provides a more direct access to Belgrade.


So far the official variant for doubling is the southern rout from Resnik to Ralja, then a tunnel to Mali Požarevac, then the northern route to Velika Plana. It's still not completely certain. Northern route is cheaper for sure, but there are plans for doubling the tracks to Mladenovac for need of Belgrade's suburban trains. The tracks would need to be relocated through the town of Palanka (where I live), as the doubling and the deleveling is not possible on the current route.

Likely variant:


----------



## Dikan011

Tuesday, 20.04.2021.|



> *RZD International Completes Construction of Rail Viaduct and Cortanovci Tunnel*
> 
> The Russian company RZD International has announced that it has completed the construction of the longest rail viaduct in Serbia on the navigable section of the Danube and the first tunnel without a canopy, Cortanovci, more than half a year before the planned deadlines.
> 
> As emphasized, these structures will become a part of the first high-speed railway Stara Pazova-Novi Sad, on the railway from Belgrade to Budapest.
> 
> In April, both facilities successfully passed the inspection of the Ministry of Construction, Transport and Infrastructure for harmonization with the project design.
> 
> Before the facilities are put into operation, which is planned for the end of 2021, works on the installation of the contact network, the upper track assembly, and tests are to be carried out in the autumn, before the commissioning.
> 
> The works on the construction of the viaduct, they remind, began on November 1, 2017, and were completed six months before the planned deadlines. Its length reaches three kilometers and certain pylons are 26 meters tall, comparable to an eight-story building.
> 
> The viaduct is located at the exit from the Cortanovci tunnel ahead of Sremski Karlovci and stretches along the navigable section of the Danube. A part of the structure is located on an incline, which is why, in order to secure the structure during its construction and exploitation, 20 anti-landslide protective structures were built.
> 
> The Cortanovci tunnel consists of two parallel tubes of a total length of 2.2 kilometers. The works on its construction were carried out without a break from September 2017 and were completed seven months before the agreed deadlines.
> 
> The actual construction of the tunnel took three years. The boring was carried out simultaneously at the four points of the two tubes at the north and the south portals, and the laying down of the upper assembly of the tracks is currently being carried out in the tunnel.
> 
> Advanced Russian and international technologies were used during the construction, which had been tested, among other occasions, during the construction of the Olympic facilities in Sochi, the press release emphasizes.
> 
> The supervisory organs, accredited labs and independent consultants constantly controlled the quality during the works on many levels, and the deadline for the safe use of the facilities, set by the project, as emphasized, will be at least 100 years.
> 
> RZD International says that they are continuing the works on the construction and reconstruction of the railway on the section Stara Pazova-Novi Sad, on the Belgrade-Budapest railway, Pan-European Corridor H.
> 
> After all the works defined by the project are finished, passenger trains will be able to travel at 200 km/h on that section, whereas the maximum speed for freight trains will be 130 km/h.


----------



## The Wild Boy

Amazing news! 

Hopefully they plant some trees / grass under the viaducts, because right now with that dirt it doesn't look good.


----------



## Dikan011

New tunnel & viaduct...


----------



## Dikan011

Interesting news today, still very few details, looks like EU has taken notice of increased Russian & Chinese participation in Serbia's infrastructure projects and has now decided to open its own wallet and will cover 35-50% of the cost of Belgrade-Nis(-Thessaloniki) high speed railway line.

Entire project is estimated at somewhere close to ~2 billon EUR, so EU share of it could be as much as 700 million euros.

Parts of the line will be upgraded for 200 km/h speeds, while others will be optimized for 160 km/h.


----------



## smokiboy

I would like to see projected speeds of 180km for the Beograd - Niš section, and 160km for the other two sections. I know that would require more expensive reconstruction, but if that cost is amortized over the next 50 or so years, the benefit to cost ratio becomes apparent.


----------



## The Wild Boy

In the meantime, i also wrote about the situation of our railways in my country. Explained pretty well how vital and of big importance is the connection with fast railway to both Greece and Serbia. 

All i can say is just Bravo Serbia! Huge support for this planned railway infrastructure from your neighbors! ❤


----------



## The Wild Boy

Now i understand why Belgrade needs quadrupling of the railway tracks in the city:




Sweden has had this same problem between Malmo and Lund. Fast trains have to slow down behind commuter railway, and because of this trains don't arrive on time, and sometimes they have to terminate to Malmo, and can't reach Copenhagen on time. 

I'm glad that Serbia understood that, and that it's of a big importance and not something to play around with.


----------



## Arnorian

You mean doubling, from two to four. A good thing is that is can be done in phases. The easiest part is Batajnica-Zemun, where there are no significant obstacles. Next is Zemun-New Belgrade, where a new tunnel is needed. The hardest and costliest part is New Belgrade-Belgrade Center, where a second bridge over the Sava is needed. But even the first phase can help with the increase in traffic brought on by urban (S-Bahn) trains. But I don't thing the doubling will be urgent. When the reconstruction is finished and a new signaling system is implemented, there should be enough room for the one line of urban trains.


----------



## Arnorian

Works on the New Belgrade station. Picture source.


----------



## The Wild Boy

Has this Boulevard near New Belgrade railway station been finished? Is there a railway underpass planned there? 

Here's the location:








44°48'41.8"N 20°24'27.7"E · New Belgrade, Belgrade, Serbia


New Belgrade, Belgrade, Serbia




maps.app.goo.gl


----------



## Arnorian

The Wild Boy said:


> Has this Boulevard near New Belgrade railway station been finished? Is there a railway underpass planned there?
> 
> Here's the location:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 44°48'41.8"N 20°24'27.7"E · New Belgrade, Belgrade, Serbia
> 
> 
> New Belgrade, Belgrade, Serbia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> maps.app.goo.gl


No. There were two tenders, I think, but no interested companies.


----------



## Dikan011

Majority of Belgrade-Nis railway will be for speeds of 200 kph:



> Monday, May 10, 2021 |
> 
> *Brnabic: About 56% of the Belgrade-Nish railway will be at a speed of 200 km per hour *
> 
> The agreement that Serbia will sign with its partners in the EU for the complete modernization of the Belgrade-Nish railway, envisages that 56% of the railway will be at speeds of 200 kilometers per hour, said Prime Minister Ana Brnabic. - An assessment of how much it will cost us to continue the railway from Nis to Presevo will follow - said Brnabic, answering journalists' questions after signing the Loan for the project of modernization of the railway sector in Serbia using a multi-phase program approach, with the French Development Agency and the World Bank. The Prime Minister said that the goal is to modernize the railway sector in Serbia, with the help of digitalization to increase its efficiency, management of railway assets and more. She mentioned that the railway is the best type of transport when it comes to the impact on the environment. - We are also working on the project of modernization of the Nis-Dimitrovgrad railway, where the works should start by the end of this year. It is all part of the overall green agenda - said Brnabić.


----------



## The Wild Boy

Dikan011 said:


> Majority of Belgrade-Nis railway will be for speeds of 200 kph:


Of course, if they reduce the amount of stations the train has to stop to then that will reduce the travel time even more. 

Even if you have a 300km/h train, with stations stop every 15 - 20 minutes, each waiting time at a station from 5 to 10 minutes, it's just going to be pointless and travel time won't be reduced that much. 

But if the fast train stops at few stations on the route, then yes the travel time will be reduced significantly. 

Stopping at stations every 30 minutes, and with each stop lasting about 5 minutes will have a big impact. 

Of course people will have to get used to go on time on the stations, because the fast trains will have to be on time, with minor delays and they won't need to wait more. Almost like in Japan, almost. 

I can only forsee now the major impact this fast railway from Novi Sad to Nis through Belgrade that it's going to make. 

They should also consider testing trials of speeds more than 200 km/h, to actually see if they can set a record. Serbia could very well set a record here in Eastern Europe for the fastest speeds ever achieved and put other countries to shame. 

And, are there plans for ETCS on the fast railway from Novi Sad all the way to Niš? That system would sure help and increase the safety when going at such 200 km/h speeds.


----------



## Theijs

I wonder if railway transport between Nis - Dimitrovgrad will be completely blocked during the modernisation works which start at the end of 2021. Who knows how long the works will last?

It’s a pity no railway bypass to Bulgaria like Negotin - Vidin has first been constructed (as there exists already Subotica - Horgos - Szeged as bypass toward Hungary during the modernisation works Novi Sad - Subotica - Kelebia).


----------



## Dikan011

Current phase of construction on Belgrade's massive new railway station nearing completion....it's starting to remind me of Berlin's, but bigger:


----------



## nsnikolov

The Wild Boy said:


> They should also consider testing trials of speeds more than 200 km/h, to actually see if they can set a record. Serbia could very well set a record here in Eastern Europe for the fastest speeds ever achieved and put other countries to shame.
> 
> And, are there plans for ETCS on the fast railway from Novi Sad all the way to Niš? That system would sure help and increase the safety when going at such 200 km/h speeds.


As far as I know Belgrade-Budapest is planed to be with ETCS level 2, so probably Belgade - Niš will be the same.
I think in other countries they also have some speed records. In Bulgaria for example a speed of 226 km/h was reached during tests, in Greece it was something similar.


----------



## Le Clerk

Аполон said:


> Subotica - Horgoš - Röszke - Szeged(Vmax 120km/h) railway section isn't a part of Belgrade - Budapest railway. It will be an alternate route during the reconstruction of the railway in Hungary.
> 
> View attachment 1907351


Ok then.
And so Belgrade-Budapest will be built for speeds of 160 km/h?


----------



## Baron Hirsch

Аполон said:


> Subotica - Horgoš - Röszke - Szeged(Vmax 120km/h) railway section isn't a part of Belgrade - Budapest railway. It will be an alternate route during the reconstruction of the railway in Hungary.


If I may add a question: Subotica-Novi Sad will also still be u/c for some time still. Do you know if there will somehow be through traffic to Belgrade in this time? Or will Budapest-Szeged-Subotica-Beograd only be a possibility once the works in Vojvodina are finished?


----------



## Аполон

Le Clerk said:


> Ok then.
> And so Belgrade-Budapest will be built for speeds of 160 km/h?


Belgrade - border with Hungary up to 200km/h

This is the first section(Belgrade - Novi Sad), it will be open in 2022 (february)









Budapest - border with Serbia will be 160km/h


----------



## Аполон

Baron Hirsch said:


> If I may add a question: Subotica-Novi Sad will also still be u/c for some time still. Do you know if there will somehow be through traffic to Belgrade in this time? Or will Budapest-Szeged-Subotica-Beograd only be a possibility once the works in Vojvodina are finished?


There is Subotica - Sombor - Bogojevo - Odžaci - Novi Sad railway (Vmax 80km/h, non electrified), this route will be the alternate route in Serbia










Subotica - Sombor - Bogojevo


----------



## Dikan011

Good news comes to us from Montenegro today, tender offer has been issued for complete overhaul & reconstruction of the Bijelo Polje station - which should bring about joint Serbia/Montenegro customs/passport check, shortening the Belgrade-Bar rail journey by as much as half an hour.


----------



## Dikan011

Reconstruction of Zemun station nearly complete:


----------



## Ady

Dikan011 said:


> Reconstruction of Zemun station nearly complete:


Chinese warning signs 😂


----------



## Ady

Аполон said:


> It will be an alternate route during the reconstruction of the railway in Hungary.


That and regional passenger traffic Szeged-Subotica (with possible extensions in either direction) will be restarted, which was halted in 2015 due to the migration crisis. 

I personally would love to see a (at least 2-hourly) Zombor-Subotica-Szeged-Békéscsaba-Oradea Euregio train


----------



## Busnotturno95

Just red this whole topic, and all I can say is: WOW. Railways in this country seem to have a bright future ahead.

How much will be the travel time after the line will be operational?

Also, can you remind me who built what? I've read that both China and Russia were involved.


----------



## Аполон

Busnotturno95 said:


> Just red this whole topic, and all I can say is: WOW. Railways in this country seem to have a bright future ahead.
> 
> How much will be the travel time after the line will be operational?


The travel time between Belgrade and Budapest will be decreased from 8h30m to 3h:30m - 4h 




Busnotturno95 said:


> Also, can you remind me who built what? I've read that both China and Russia were involved.


In Serbia
*Belgrade - Stara Pazova *(34.5 km)u/c - China Communications Construction Company/China Railway International 
*Stara Pazova - Novi Sad *(40.4 km)u/c - RZD International(Russian Railways) 
*Novi Sad - Subotica* (108 km) - China Communications Construction Company/China Railway International


----------



## Arnorian

Ady said:


> Chinese warning signs 😂


Not a warning sign, it says "entrance".


----------



## Dikan011

New Belgrade railway station ... kind of lacklustre, considering it's importance.


----------



## The Wild Boy

Dikan011 said:


> New Belgrade railway station ... kind of lacklustre, considering it's importance.


It's going to get more usage when they finish the new bus station, fast railway to Novi Sad, and if the metro connects to it. 
Of course they have to renovate the part under the railway station, i assume they will do that afterwards. That is also in a bad condition, otherwise i like how they renovated the top part of the railway station. Maybe they could've extended those roofs, given that the platforms are far longer.

I see most of the residential buildings are not that close to it, so having a good pedestrian / bike connection to it would also matter. I assume there's a bus / tramway stop, given that the tramway runs underneath the station and they are building the new bus station near that railway station.

Public transport matters a lot to Belgrade, road authorities better get their job seriously about finishing the Belgrade metro as soon as possible, and getting rid of those useless stops that will serve the rich oligarchs, and they should connect the new railway station and clinic center instead...


----------



## Аполон

New Belgrade railway station 

Before









After


----------



## Ady

That non-passenger platform in the middle seems to be quite a waste of space.


----------



## Arnorian

Ady said:


> That non-passenger platform in the middle seems to be quite a waste of space.


I never understood why they made them. They could've fit two more tracks without them.

New Belgrade station will need to be expanded in the future. The plan is to add two more tracks between it and Batajnica in the middle-run (magenta), and also to Belgrade Center in the long run (green). A station with only five tracks is too small to accommodate four tracks coming into it. Adding one track is a minimum, so the outer two tracks can serve S-bahn, and the inner four other traffic.


----------



## Ady

I assume they're for serving long-distance trains, but for that purpose 1 meter is more than enough.


----------



## kokomo

*Belgrade Topcider*
Is it still operational? I saw a video not long ago and it looked really ugly and outdated


----------



## Dikan011

Some would say it's got character. 😂


----------



## kokomo

It looks like a third world country station, and believe me I've got experience on those


----------



## Ady

kokomo said:


> It looks like a third world country station, and believe me I've got experience on those


No worries, this is Rákosrendező station, 500 meters from the centrally located City Park and the first station after the Nyugati terminus on the Budapest - Bratislava - Prague - Berlin line...


----------



## kokomo

But clearly it is not operational anymore, correct?🤔


----------



## Ady

kokomo said:


> But clearly it is not operational anymore, correct?🤔


It is... check the departure board on Google maps.


----------



## Baron Hirsch

Topčider is very stylish. A station in the middle of a huge park. When you arrive from the south, you have the impression you never entered a city. With a little refurbishing, it would be great. Especially more facilities such as buffets and shops should be added or revived. Also, the tram lines which were not running when last I was in Topčider should of course reconnect the station to the city.

In Hungary, Budapest Ferencváros surprised me. I once had to change there between two trains where the connection in Keleti would have been to tight. It seems basically like a huge freight yard where surprisingly, there are some passengers hanging around somewhere waiting for trains.

Oh, and just to show I do not just point fingers far from home, you should see Essen Hbf or Dortmund if you want to see a relatively rich country maintaining ugly stations in its major cities...


----------



## Ady

Baron Hirsch said:


> Topčider is very stylish. A station in the middle of a huge park. When you arrive from the south, you have the impression you never entered a city. With a little refurbishing, it would be great. Especially more facilities such as buffets and shops should be added or revived. Also, the tram lines which were not running when last I was in Topčider should of course reconnect the station to the city.
> 
> In Hungary, Budapest Ferencváros surprised me. I once had to change there between two trains where the connection in Keleti would have been to tight. It seems basically like a huge freight yard where surprisingly, there are some passengers hanging around somewhere waiting for trains.
> 
> Oh, and just to show I do not just point fingers far from home, you should see Essen Hbf or Dortmund if you want to see a relatively rich country maintaining ugly stations in its major cities...


Ferencváros basically IS a huge freight yard the size of a borough with a small passenger station attached, in the middle of nowhere (from a public transport point of view):

Google Maps

The good news is that they started to overhaul the whole line completely, doublng from 2 to 4 through tracks and the current station will be replaced with 2 new ones where the railroad crosses metro M3 and (future) M5.


----------



## Qtya

Pix form the u/c Subotica-Horgoš line (Palić), while no work has been done on the Hungarian side so far...









A régi síneknek már nyoma sincs Palicsnál


Rohamtempóban zajlik a (Szeged–)Röszke–Szabadka vasútvonal szerbiai szakaszának átépítése.




iho.hu


----------



## darkangel89

Intermodal terminal construction update. 
Price tag: 15.5 million Euro (13.8 million EU grant/ rest from government budget)
Contractor: STRABAG
Deadline: 18 months (should be Q1 2022, but more realisticly H1)
Capacity: 80.000 TEU (curently in Serbia only 10.000 TEU)
Location: near Batajnica interchange


----------



## Theijs

Stadler double deck EMUs for Serbia








View attachment 2030328

Source: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=6247922095248126&id=483957358311324&ref=group_browse


----------



## The Wild Boy

Not gonna lie, I'm not a huge fan of that design, just like everyone else from the Serbian forums.

The railway station Prokop will be very useless if they don't reroute the metro though it. That's literally the only solution so the station becomes a big hub, otherwise it will be very useless with only 1 bus line, and roads surrounding it... They have to think about getting people quicker to and from the station with the rest of the city. I understand that people could change from the fast railway to the commuter BG Voz but that won't be it, compared to having it connected directly with the metro. Why are the officials quiet about this? Aaah i know why, it matters to them more to connect the luxury residential buildings where their people and the rich oligarchs will live, but neighborhoods with 70,000 people and crucial objects like Belgrade's new main railway station and the Clinic center.

A big mistake was made from getting rid of the old main railway station that was actually in the center and had a better connection.

Now this new main railway station that has a potential isn't getting a good connection with other public transport services...

Good job, and may the people vote these politicians again!

And we'd be happy if trains on the Belgrade - Novi Sad fast railway manage to reach 160 km/h. They could've done a much better job, but who asks the people..


----------



## Аполон

First Stadler KISS for "SrbijaVoz A.D."


railpictures.net/Georg Trüb


Vmax 200km/h
capacity: 316 
first train will arrive until 31.10.2021.


----------



## The Wild Boy

Great news!

When is it arriving in Belgrade? Will it get stored in the new depot? The new depot is still under construction as far as i know. I also heard that Stadler wanted to open a factory in Serbia, so I'm assuming future trains will be made in Serbia. That would be really good.

The design is bad, we all know that. It was definitely done by an amateur and i can think of millions of better designs. But compared to the renders this isn't that bad, and i can certainly think of worse train designs that exist irl.

Now let's hope that they actually run these trains at 200 km/h and that the politicians keep up to their words. For that DuleVoz shall tell us, once they open the line. I assume in a true Balkan way there will be a ceremony, government officials, and they will tell the people how they have transformed the entire rail system in Serbia...

When are test trials scheduled to Begin? And what max speed will freight trains run at?

Edit:
The link you sent is broken (it doesn't open it to me), but i managed to find them on the website. 



https://railpictures.net/photo/781514/







RailPictures.Net » Photo Search Result » Railroad, Train, Railway Photos, Pictures & News


Online railroad photo database, featuring thousands of high-quality photographs of trains, railroads, railroad scenes, and more.



railpictures.net


----------



## Robi_damian

Аполон said:


> First Stadler KISS for "SrbijaVoz A.D."
> 
> 
> railpictures.net/Georg Trüb
> 
> 
> Vmax 200km/h
> capacity: 316
> first train will arrive until 31.10.2021.


My God that is the worst livery I have ever seen in a train.


----------



## Qtya

Pretty lame indeed, but the train is great. Are there any inside pix available?


----------



## Ady

It also misses a few coaches 😂


----------



## Busnotturno95

A curiosity came to mind: is there any modernization planned for the Belgrade - Niš line?


----------



## Аполон

Busnotturno95 said:


> A curiosity came to mind: is there any modernization planned for the Belgrade - Niš line?


Yes, Belgrade - Nis up to 200km/h and Niš - Preševo up to 160km/h

#1265








SERBIA | Railways


No timeline, but a plan was drawn up to revitalize & repurpose the currently dilapidated Novi Sad roundhouse...it will include railway museum, cultural center, restaurants, children's playground, etc. Could you please provide a source?




www.skyscrapercity.com


----------



## Qtya

Ana Brnabic announced that 6 billion EUR will be spent on the railway network of Serbia. I couldn't really make heads-or-tails of the press report. How does this 6 billion sums up?

Belgrade-Kelebia 2 or 2+2?
Belgrad- NIS 1.8 (but by reading the second article from RG, I guess the +2 from above is the Belgrade-Nis)?
And what are the rest?









Serbia to invest €6B in modernization of railways


Railway modernization project to connect Serbia with regional countries as well as EU, says prime minister - Anadolu Agency




www.aa.com.tr













Connecting Europe Express puts spotlight on Western Balkan rail vision


EUROPE: Welcoming the EU's Connecting Europe Express to Beograd Centar on September 13, Serbian Prime Minister Ana Brnabić announced that her country's rail investment programme would be worth up to €6bn and focus on 'reconnecting' the Western Balkan countries' fragmented networks.




www.railwaygazette.com


----------



## darkangel89

Its approximated numbers, but it should be something like this:
Belgrade - Kelebia 2 billion
Belgrade - Nis 1.8 billion
Nis - Dimitrovgrad 270 million
Nis - Presevo (no numbers yet but it should be something like 350-450 million)
Valjevo - Vrbnica 450 million
Subotica - Horgos 90 million

And the rest could be either for traines, coaches etc, or it could be for other projects that are in the pipeline but not immediate priority (Belgrade - Sid; Valjevo - Loznica; electrification of many lines etc).


----------



## The Wild Boy

Nis - Preševo will be a completely new railway line, like how they built the A1 motorway?

There really isn't a lot of space, especially not at the Grdelica Gorge section, where the railway on some sections runs closer to the A1 motorway, so therefore i don't see a possibility for the existing railway to be upgraded. Plus i assume that they did already renovate that railway several years ago, didn't they?

Niš - Dimitrovgrad seems a bit expensive for me, but then again the politicians have to steal some money for themselves, so no big surprise here 

Also what project is Valjevo - Vrbnica? Is it part of a big corridor, or? Will that too be a new railway line?


----------



## Qtya

darkangel89 said:


> Its approximated numbers, but it should be something like this:
> Belgrade - Kelebia 2 billion
> Belgrade - Nis 1.8 billion
> Nis - Dimitrovgrad 270 million
> Nis - Presevo (no numbers yet but it should be something like 350-450 million)
> Valjevo - Vrbnica 450 million
> Subotica - Horgos 90 million
> 
> And the rest could be either for traines, coaches etc, or it could be for other projects that are in the pipeline but not immediate priority (Belgrade - Sid; Valjevo - Loznica; electrification of many lines etc).


Thank you very much darkangel89.


----------



## darkangel89

The Wild Boy said:


> History will repeat itself again.
> First, the Gorbachov (GwR) trains that ended in BG Voz, and now the Russians are back again. I wonder what new trainsets will they offer this time.
> Nonetheless it will be interesting to see how this project will go. Belgrade definitely needs to modernize it's commuter rail, and expand it.


Well, probably not.

It is true that we are interested in Russian, at least Moscow's personal experience in suburban railways, and it is quite possible that RZD will get a part for upgrading the infrastructure, but for them vehicles are out of question.
There is a 95% certain winner in the part of the vehicle fleet, and that is Siemens or more precisely Mireo.


----------



## The Wild Boy

I mean dang, these look good. With Serbian styled colors (not like that amateur color scheme on the 200 km/h Stadler trains) such trainsets would look nice and blend in well.


Although i personally like this train more:








The Ivolga is newer, looks more modern and seems to have plenty of seats and doors(which would come in handy during rush hours).

The Lastochka's seat configuration looks a bit odd to me, Ivolga has a much better seat configuration. But regardless of that, both trains are really good. It's about time to get rid of those aging GwR trains from Soviet Russia.


----------



## The Wild Boy

darkangel89 said:


> Well, probably not.
> 
> It is true that we are interested in Russian, at least Moscow's personal experience in suburban railways, and it is quite possible that RZD will get a part for upgrading the infrastructure, but for them vehicles are out of question.
> There is a 95% certain winner in the part of the vehicle fleet, and that is Siemens or more precisely Mireo.


Yes Siemens is also a good option. Serbia already has several Siemens trains they use for cargo and they are good. It all depends on what kind of deal the politicians will make. Either ways Siemens and RZD both produce great trains so i can't complain with either. I don't know who Mireo is. Is it a company owned by Siemens that produces trains for them?


----------



## darkangel89

The thing is that Siemens has a factory in Kragujevac at which manufactures and assembles trams (Avenio) and partially commuters and regional trains (Mireo and Desiro). Lastochka is also known as Desiro RUS because it's Desiro with specific russian requests applied and Mireo is lightweight Desiro successor which is partially manufactured in Kragujevac.
Knowing this, what do you think which models are going to be next tram and commuter in Belgrade (and both categories are long overdue for replacements)? 

As this alone is not too obvious, Vucic visited that factory in July and director in front of all the cameras told him that manufactoring and assembling of Mireo in Kragujevac is possible and even desirable but it is also needed to be "pushed" from serbian side (i believe you understand how to "push").

P.S. After that sham with von der Leyen the other day when they start modernising part of Nis - Presevo line for speeds up to 120 km/h and show video of Beograd - Nis with speeds up to 200 km/h, i believe that mentioned speed of up to 160 km/h on that line is just a nice dreams because it will remain 120 km/h.


----------



## Theijs

darkangel89 said:


> After that sham with von der Leyen the other day when they start modernising part of Nis - Presevo line for speeds up to 120 km/h and show video of Beograd - Nis with speeds up to 200 km/h, i believe that mentioned speed of up to 160 km/h on that line is just a nice dreams because it will remain 120 km/h.


What are you trying to say?
• Beograd - Nis max 160 km/h (tilting trains 200 km/h)?
• Nis - Presevo max 120 km/h?


----------



## darkangel89

No, until few days ago there was a plan (according to our politicians) to build Belgrade - Nis line with speeds up to 200 km/h (which is still on track) and Nis - Presevo line for speeds up to 160 km/h.

But then they just used old plans for modernization of Nis - Brestovac (first section of Nis - Presevo, and one of the few sections that wasn't modernized by RZD a couple years ago on that line), so no realignment for 160 km/h as was promised.
Sham part beside speed is that they used promo video of Beograd - Nis line to show von der Leyen what is she attending (she was at the starting construction ceremony), which is a different line. Video is in qouted post



Аполон said:


>


----------



## The Wild Boy

Well of course it's expected that politicians will give bald promises, and hope that some 🐑 will believe in what they are saying and vote for them next time. It's all the same story across the Balkans and parts of Europe. 

This is why i say, I'll believe it when i see Dulevoz film a video. _Only then can we see the real speeds politicians would not want you to see. _

With a little bit of research, everything comes on top 😉

After all Belgrade - Niš will be just several realignments to match up those faster speeds, we'd be lucky if they make it acess controlled, grade separated(properly isolated with fences, overpasses instead of at - grade rail crossings) like what they are doing on Belgrade - Novi Sad railway line. 

I did not get my hopes high for the Niš - Preševo railway line either. I knew that they wouldn't do something special there, plus the terrain on certain sections is hard, so doing an actual 160 km/h railway line is well not going to happen. 
Remember it took them years to finish A1 though Grdelica Gorge, and don't let me remind you of how many politicians and governments gave empty promises (just like what they are doing with Belgrade Bypass, A2 motorway, etc...) about finishing that section. 

So yeah, obviously as someone living in the cursed Balkans i have gotten used to and accustomed to this whole situation, and i never get my hopes high. (Just like how i have lost any hope in Macedonian Railways). 

So yeah, Serbs don't expect anything special from our side as well, and infact don't expect anything new in the next 10 - 20 years. We're already struggling with finishing a railway link on corridor 8 that we have been struggling to build for more than 25 years, let alone modernizing our main corridor 10, or even worse building a faster railway connection.


----------



## Dikan011

Something that makes me happy...record passenger numbers on Belgrade-Bar railway this summer. Numbers would probably be even greater if the state of this railway would correspond to the century we live in 

Russia's RZD is currently preparing the project for the complete overhaul of Valjevo-MNE border section.


----------



## Dikan011

Good, they didn't forget the most important thing...fast wi-fi.



> *Belgrade-Novi Sad High-Speed Railway to Have Fast Internet – Negotiations with Telekom in Progress*
> 
> We are negotiating with Telekom about having the railway between Belgrade and Novi Sad covered by wireless internet, which will also be done in other parts of the railways later on, announced the minister of construction, transport and infrastructure of Serbia, Tomislav Momirovic.
> 
> He said on TV Tanjug that, in September alone, over EUR 300 million was invested in highways, fast railways, water and air transport infrastructure.


----------



## CornelM

Freight & Passenger Trains shot in Serbia


----------



## Dikan011

Work on Novi Sad railway station:


----------



## Dikan011

In the next few years, Serbia will spend between 15-20 billion euros on upgrading its rail infrastructure...but until we change people's mentality, what's the point?


----------



## Dikan011

Chinese, Hungarian and Serbian officials today kick-started work on the Hungarian part of the Belgrade-Budapest railway:


----------



## Dikan011

Cool news, after Siemens, Czech giant Skoda will now locate a rail production plant in Kragujevac. Initially, just for new trams, but production could expand.



> *Skoda to Start Producing Trams in Kragujevac by End-Year*
> 
> The vice-president of Skoda, Zdenek Majer, announced yesterday that the company had made the decision to start building trams in Kragujevac by the end of 2021.
> 
> He said this at a meeting with the deputy mayor of Belgrade, Goran Vesic, who, at the invitation of Czech companies, has presented, in Prague, the possibilities of investments in Belgrade, Beoinfo reports.
> 
> Vesic notified the Czech hosts that the City of Belgrade “will buy 80 new trolleys and 120 trams in the next five years, so, along with the purchase of 500 natural gas buses, the first hundred of which are already being procured, this will mean the full replacement of the rolling stock of the public transport company”.
> 
> He invited Skoda to take part in the tenders that the city is to open in the upcoming months.
> 
> Vesic also visited the company EP Holding, which is interested in investing in the energy sector in Belgrade, heating plants and new facilities for the production of heating and electrical energy. EP Holding is one of the biggest European companies in this field.
> 
> At the meeting with Czech companies interested in investing in Belgrade, Vesic said that, up till then, the biggest Czech investments were made in construction and real estate.
> 
> – We are grateful to Czech companies which invest in our city, making the city better through their investments. We also invite other Czech companies from other fields to invest in Belgrade – Vesic said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.ekapija.com/en/news/3446466/skoda-to-start-producing-trams-in-kragujevac-by-end-year


----------



## Dikan011

Sremski Karlovci station:


----------



## Qtya

"From Subotica to Szeged in 35 minutes." 

Foundation stone of the already u/c project has been layed. 




__ https://www.facebook.com/orbanviktor/posts/418715362959401






__ https://www.facebook.com/vucicaleksandar/posts/4621012834608106



Hopefully this means works have finally started on the Hu side too, as I've seen no movement on Sunday morning.



















Northward...










To the south...


----------



## Qtya

A pretty good summery on the Serbian rail projects, put into geopolitical context, sadly only in Hungarian:




__ https://www.facebook.com/560525343980775/posts/5043550329011565



Some facts and figures seem quite familiar to the information posted here.


----------



## Dikan011

Serbia's president Vucic heading to Moscow next month, to meet Putin. Among other things, with the visit obviously primarily concentrated on gas price negotiations, there are now rumors a 1,3 billion euro deal concerning upgrade & development of Belgrade's suburban railway system will be signed.


----------



## Dikan011




----------



## Dikan011

First of the new 200kph-capable trainsets should arrive next month.

Also next month, tender offers should be opened for an additional 18 EMU trainsets for regional services.


----------



## Arnorian




----------



## The Wild Boy

Is it coming by train in Serbia, or by truck?


----------



## Arnorian

The Wild Boy said:


> Is it coming by train in Serbia, or by truck?


See the picture above.


----------



## Dikan011

Photos of new train's interior:


----------



## The Wild Boy

It looks really nice, but good luck if anyone rides on it.

That moment when your new main railway station is not going to be connected with an almost 6 billion EUR planned metro in Belgrade (that is literally a joke), but the same metro will go and serve the luxurious buildings where the rich people, oligarchs and government officials / politicians will live.

But the rich people love to drive in their Luxurious cars, do you think any of them will take the metro? 🤔

Anyways, as to not go any off-topic, I'll talk more about the Belgrade Metro in the other thread, but all I'm going to say is that the current plan is a joke, and avoiding to connect your new main railway station, that already is poorly connected, and in "the middle of nowhere" will be a very BIG mistake, especially when the same government (political coalition) is investing heavy into railways.
They did a big mistake by getting rid of the old main railway station, that was on a really good location.

But i guess big building blocks for the oligarchs, the rich, and the politicians matter more than how the ordinary citizen will travel to and from Belgrade's new main railway station, to use a good, eco friendly, fast alternative to car traffic & avoid traffic jams. The metro will cause more problems than solve existing.

I just hope the people wake up, and fight for more transparency and do not allow such a mess to happen. Metro should go to important places, where it will connect most of the population, not in empty fields...

Maybe one day when i come to Belgrade i could take a ride on this train and see Novi Sad as well. It will be a nice ride on this train and I'm eagerly waiting for the construction of the fast & new and improved railway line to my country. Maybe that will wake up our politicians here and make them realize they need to do something with our railway - in - decay.

The new Stadler trains look nice, but only from the inside. 

I guess next time don't let some inexperienced children to draw you a paint scheme, that looks awful. I'm assuming it can be changed in the future. 
They did actually let people choose the paint job of the Belgrade Metro, but never let people choose the paint job of a train that will run on one of the most important rail corridors... 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Baron Hirsch

To my knowledge, the Macedonian government has dedicated itself to upgrading Kumanovo-Skopje as part of the corridor 8 agreement with Bulgaria and Albania. That leaves most of the country unaccounted for, but at least an incoming train from Serbia would then make it into Skopje in no time. Off topic, sorry.


----------



## Theijs

The current NMK government doesn’t see the importance, nor wants to pay for rail connection. They turned down offers from Germans and Dutch ministers to help with upgrading incl. funding. There it (unfortunately) stops.


----------



## Dikan011




----------



## The Wild Boy

Already begun testing? 

Nice. 

I can't wait till they test it at full speed!


----------



## Дisiдent

The Wild Boy said:


> It looks really nice, but good luck if anyone rides on it.
> 
> That moment when your new main railway station is not going to be connected with an almost 6 billion EUR planned metro in Belgrade (that is literally a joke), but the same metro will go and serve the luxurious buildings where the rich people, oligarchs and government officials / politicians will live.
> 
> But the rich people love to drive in their Luxurious cars, do you think any of them will take the metro? 🤔
> 
> Anyways, as to not go any off-topic, I'll talk more about the Belgrade Metro in the other thread, but all I'm going to say is that the current plan is a joke, and avoiding to connect your new main railway station, that already is poorly connected, and in "the middle of nowhere" will be a very BIG mistake, especially when the same government (political coalition) is investing heavy into railways.
> They did a big mistake by getting rid of the old main railway station, that was on a really good location.
> 
> But i guess big building blocks for the oligarchs, the rich, and the politicians matter more than how the ordinary citizen will travel to and from Belgrade's new main railway station, to use a good, eco friendly, fast alternative to car traffic & avoid traffic jams. The metro will cause more problems than solve existing.
> 
> I just hope the people wake up, and fight for more transparency and do not allow such a mess to happen. Metro should go to important places, where it will connect most of the population, not in empty fields...
> 
> Maybe one day when i come to Belgrade i could take a ride on this train and see Novi Sad as well. It will be a nice ride on this train and I'm eagerly waiting for the construction of the fast & new and improved railway line to my country. Maybe that will wake up our politicians here and make them realize they need to do something with our railway - in - decay.
> 
> The new Stadler trains look nice, but only from the inside.
> 
> I guess next time don't let some inexperienced children to draw you a paint scheme, that looks awful. I'm assuming it can be changed in the future.
> They did actually let people choose the paint job of the Belgrade Metro, but never let people choose the paint job of a train that will run on one of the most important rail corridors... 🤷‍♂️


6 billion is the estimated price for 3 lines (about 60km of tracks and 60 stations). If you are talking about 3 lines then it is wrong to say that it wont connect new railway station because it will (third line).


----------



## Дisiдent




----------



## nh1la

Theijs said:


> The current NMK government doesn’t see the importance, nor wants to pay for rail connection. *They turned down offers from Germans and Dutch ministers to help with upgrading incl. funding.* There it (unfortunately) stops.


???

Can you please share some info about these offers?


----------



## Theijs

What I understood is that the NMK government has the opinion that 
A) it are not the MK citizens that profit from this investment. 
B) the offered interest rate for the loan was too high. 
C) if D and NL have the opinion that upgrade of the corridor is of importance to them, they should pay and implement the upgrade themselves and hand it over to the NMK authorities.


----------



## Dikan011

Seems to me like STADLER will pick up the additional 18 trainset order for regional trains....back-room deal, don't particularly like it. ☕


----------



## Baron Hirsch

I have some questions about the more immediate future in Belgrade. 
From the looks of it, the new suburban rail stations built by Chinese companies seem finished. However, there still seems to be little urban rail (BeoVoz?) traffic. Is there still only a single track for all traffic on the main line Rakovica-Beograd Centar-Novi Beograd-Zemun? If so, when will this end? Will urban rail (BeoVoz?) have completely dedicated lines or will regional, long distance, and freight trains still mix with them? Will BeoVoz then have attractive, frequent departures or will one have to study the schedule closely before using them?
The reason I am asking is that I was on the Optima Express, a car train from Edirne to Villach, and we were stalled in Belgrade for 2 1/2 hours on the pretext that there was no available slot for our train that would not interfere with BeoVoz's schedule.


----------



## Busnotturno95

Dikan011 said:


> Photos of new train's interior:


Ex-WestBahn, I see.


----------



## Dikan011

Of course not, brand new stock.


----------



## Arnorian

Baron Hirsch said:


> I have some questions about the more immediate future in Belgrade.
> From the looks of it, the new suburban rail stations built by Chinese companies seem finished. However, there still seems to be little urban rail (BeoVoz?) traffic. Is there still only a single track for all traffic on the main line Rakovica-Beograd Centar-Novi Beograd-Zemun? If so, when will this end? Will urban rail (BeoVoz?) have completely dedicated lines or will regional, long distance, and freight trains still mix with them? Will BeoVoz then have attractive, frequent departures or will one have to study the schedule closely before using them?
> The reason I am asking is that I was on the Optima Express, a car train from Edirne to Villach, and we were stalled in Belgrade for 2 1/2 hours on the pretext that there was no available slot for our train that would not interfere with BeoVoz's schedule.


Single track? No, there are two tracks on Batajnica-Zemun- New Belgrade-Belgrade Center-Rakovica-Resnik, for decades now. For now these two track will be shared. Suburban rail has two lines, I think the frequency after the works on the railway are done has not been published yet. It used to be 15 minutes on the first line in rush-hour, and 30 minutes outside rush-hour. The pretext you were told was just that. There should be no freight traffic inside the city center once the eastern part of the freight bypass is finished, but that is at least six years away.

There is a plan to build two more tracks (four in total) between Batajnica and New Belgrade as a first stage, and later between New Belgrade and Belgrade Center too. This final section is the most problematic, as it will require the bridge below getting a twin. These would be dedicated to suburban rail. No timeframe is known yet.


----------



## Дisiдent

BG:Voz has priority over other trains.


----------



## Theijs

An article about the contract between the Hungarian government and Chinese authorities for the upgrade of line 150 between Budapest and Kelebija. If I understand the article correctly, the price offered by the Chinese authorities is 4 times more than the market price. Tajni ugovori na pruzi Beograd-Budimpešta | GradSubotica


----------



## Qtya

Its totally false. I’ve previously posted an article here on rail projects of the Western-Balkan countries. It lists several projects with references incl. the Hungarian section of the Budapest-Belgrade railway line. 1,7 billion is not really extraordinary.

You can break it down to kms.









Harc a puskaporos hordóért, avagy országainkat a vasútért


Különös verseny a Balkánon Kína és az EU között.




index.hu


----------



## Qtya

Stadler delivers 200 km/h Kiss to Serbia


SERBIA: President Aleksandar Vučić has attended the handover of the first of three 200 km/h Stadler Kiss double-deck electric multiple-units to national passenger operator Srbija Voz. The Ministry of Construction, Transport & Infrastructure called tenders for the EMUs on February 9 ...




www.railwaygazette.com


----------



## Baron Hirsch

Arnorian said:


> Single track? No, there are two tracks on Batajnica-Zemun- New Belgrade-Belgrade Center-Rakovica-Resnik, for decades now. For now these two track will be shared. Suburban rail has two lines, I think the frequency after the works on the railway are done has not been published yet. It used to be 15 minutes on the first line in rush-hour, and 30 minutes outside rush-hour. The pretext you were told was just that. There should be no freight traffic inside the city center once the eastern part of the freight bypass is finished, but that is at least six years away.
> 
> There is a plan to build two more tracks (four in total) between Batajnica and New Belgrade as a first stage, and later between New Belgrade and Belgrade Center too. This final section is the most problematic, as it will require the bridge below getting a twin. These would be dedicated to suburban rail. No timeframe is known yet.


Thanks, Arnorian, and also Dissident,
with single track I was of course only referring to the situation during construction. Even if only one track is usable for the moment and BeoVoz is a holy cow not to be disturbed, I agree that with the rather meager traffic by the latter, it was some pretext to show a private railway company (Optima) it is not wanted by stalling it 2 1/2 hours. I hope the future of Serbian Railways will be brighter.


----------



## The Wild Boy

Now i can't wait to see videos of that beast 

Hoping Dulevoz would make something soon.


----------



## Dikan011

Planned new look of the reconstructed Novi Sad railway station:


----------



## Dikan011

Something interesting - ongoing redevelopment Belgrade's now defunct, old main railway station & railyards...








At night:


----------



## Dikan011

Hahaha they've started using the new KISS train as a prop. 🤣 

Contract for free high-speed WiFi on the new Belgrade-Novi Sad-Subotica high speed line signed with Serbia's Telekom:


----------



## The Wild Boy

Serbia Pays Price of Delays, Errors and Costly Cars in Rail Upgrade


Delays and design errors have cost Serbia tens of millions of dollars in the process of upgrading the rail connection between Belgrade to Budapest, BIRN can reveal.




balkaninsight.com


----------



## Dikan011

International contest to chose the future design Belgrade's old roundhouse, part of the currently ongoing railyards redevelopment (Belgrade on Water project) ...

First prize:



















Second prize:





























Source:






WEB izložba - Konkurs Ložionica







www.konkurs-lozionica.rs


----------



## Dikan011

*Tender for Reconstruction of Novi Sad-Vrbas Section Within Construction of Fast Railway to Kelebija Opens*



> The company China Civil Engineering Construction Corporation has opened the tender for the execution of works on the reconstruction and modernization of the Novi Sad-Vrbas railway within the Novi Sad-Subotica-Kelebija section on the future fast railway Belgrade-Budapest.
> 
> The invitation, according to the tendering documentation, pertains to companies from Serbia and other European countries.
> 
> Bids may be submitted by December 3, and the details can be found HERE.
> 
> As announced earlier this year, the route of the Novi Sad-Kelebija railway will pass through the municipality of Vrbas at a length of 20 kilometers, and those will be the major works on this section of the fast railway to Hungary, where nine railway stations and the rail hubs Novi Sad, Vrbas and Subotica will be reconstructed. Three new railway stations, in Rumenka, Vrbas and Lovcenac, will be built as well, and a new viaduct, of 1.6 kilometers, will be built in Vrbas.


----------



## keber

Is Chinese company now the owner of that railway? Or why is a Chinese company announcing a tender for a renovation of Serbian railway?


----------



## darkangel89

No, this is a tender for subcontract companies on this first section of Novi Sad - Kelebija railway and that's why Chinese company is announcing it.

Also today is a foundation stone ceremony for Novi Sad - Kelebija railway even though works are already underway in Novi Sad station which is in that railway (atleast part of the station must be finished before march because of restarting Beograd - Novi Sad service)


----------



## Qtya

__ https://www.facebook.com/100057788781980/posts/323405842929039


----------



## thebeatlesalways123

finally asian country build europe, estern


----------



## eu01

thebeatlesalways123 said:


> finally asian country build europe, estern


Getting trapped with debts is not necessarily the best solution for these countries. And in the long run not good for the world trade either.


----------



## Дisiдent

eu01 said:


> Getting trapped with debts is not necessarily the best solution for these countries. And in the long run not good for the world trade either.


It is very good for both the world and for those countries to have a modern infrastructure.


----------



## Dikan011

Work on first section of Belgrade-Nis high speed railway, a 2 billion EUR project, getting ready to begin.
I believe they said about 55% of the entire route will be optimized for 200kph speeds.




> *Construction of the fast railway Belgrade-Nish - Section Stalac-Junis two-track *
> 
> By the end of the year, the contractor will select a contractor for the reconstruction of the railway from Stalac to Junis. This will officially start the renovation of the railway route from Belgrade to Nis. The railway from Stalac to Junis is the only one-track, on the entire route from Belgrade to Nis. That is why a 17-kilometer-long two-track route and a 3.2-kilometer tunnel will be built.
> 
> This will allow speeds of up to 160 kilometers per hour. - It is really a very complex facility, the most complex facility on this section of the railway, and we practically started from what is the most difficult to do - says Nenad Stanisavljević, PR of the Railway Infrastructure. In the former Yugoslavia, Stalac was recognizable by the railway station. And now half of the railway transport passes through Serbia. - It is planned that as much as 40% of this section consists of bridges and tunnels.
> 
> According to the announcements, six tunnels and five bridges will be built here. For the underdeveloped municipality of Ćićevac, where the railway will be built, this will mean a lot. - We expect even faster transport of goods and services and people, and we also expect the arrival of some new investments, considering that this industrial track can also be activated in our country - says Mirjana Krkić, president of the municipality of Ćićevac. -
> 
> Apart from connecting important cities, it also connects the hinterland of those cities, with interesting tourist attractions, so that it will reach those destinations faster and more comfortably - says prof. Dr. Boban Stojanović from the Faculty of Economics in Niš. The first phase of works is financed by the state with 40m EUR. - Corridor 10, both passenger and railway, is the most important corridor in the entire Balkans, it connects the Middle East with Central and Western Europe.
> 
> We have to provide a better quality of these lines - says Tomislav Momirović, Minister of Construction, Transport and Infrastructure. This railway was last reconstructed in 1967. The works are expected to start in the spring, and the deadline for completion is 30 months.


----------



## Qtya

Track laying on the Subotica/Szabadka - Horgos line:




__ https://www.facebook.com/145626675507068/posts/4421713454565014


----------



## nsnikolov

Does anyone know if the reconstruction of Dimitrovdgrad - Nis will start anytime soon? Are there any news about this topic?


----------



## darkangel89

Last info is "starting in spring 2022", if you believe politicians (video is in serbian, but i think you can understand)





TANJUG | Ministar transporta Bugarske Hristo Aleksijev







www.tanjug.rs


----------



## The Wild Boy

Last time it was meant for the fast railway between Belgrade and Novi Sad to be already finished some several years ago. But that never happened obviously. I have read that there were many delays, penalties, and even issues especially with one of the viaducts. Is that really true? They surely can't open a fast railway and run trains on it if what you have built isn't structurally capable to handle the load it is meant to receive??

Will someone be responsible for those issues and the delays created? 


I guess we won't be seeing the Belgrade - Niš fast railway finished by 2030, if we're lucky. 

They will get away with some minor renovations of the railway on the remaining sections from Niš to the border with my country and then call it a day. 

I wouldn't be surprised if in 2030 they come out and say, hey people we have built you a high speed railway line, the first in this region. 

I really hope everyone understands that this isn't 1% of what a high speed railway line is. 

We've yet to see the trials with the new trainsets they are ordering. 

Oh and let's not even talk about Belgrade's station that is poorly connected and that could take some 10 more years to be finished. I have also heard that they want to build some new towers near that station, and it's said that there is a landslide there that could collapse at any time if anything more gets built onto it.


----------



## Theijs

I think we all know that there is no chance to make from Nis to Dimitrovgrad a high speed railway line. It’s simply a too curvy canyon. Simply don’t believe the dust in the eyes from politicians without knowledge.
If I recall well, there has been posted earlier a map with Vmax 120 or 140 km/h.


----------



## The Wild Boy

Theijs said:


> I think we all know that there is no chance to make from Nis to Dimitrovgrad a high speed railway line. It’s simply a too curvy canyon. Simply don’t believe the dust in the eyes from politicians without knowledge.
> If I recall well, there has been posted earlier a map with Vmax 120 or 140 km/h.


Niš - Dimitrovgrad - 120 km/h vmax
Niš - Presevo - 140 km/h vmax
Niš - Belgrade 160 km/h vmax
Belgrade - Novi Sad 200 km/h vmax
Novi Sad - Subotica 160 km/h vmax??
Subotica - Kelebia 160 km/h vmax??

2030??


----------



## nsnikolov

Yes, Nis-Dimitrovgrad is supposed to be for 120 km/h but even with such speed limit it will be 3 times faster than now.


----------



## CornelM




----------



## Dikan011

Work on Belgrade railway station....still a few years left before completion.


----------



## Dikan011

Another delay on Nis-Dimitrovgrad railway...



> *Tender for Reconstruction of Nis-Dimitrovgrad Railway Extended – Daughter Company of Deutsche Bahn to Provide Technical Help in Execution of Works*
> 
> 
> The tender for the reconstruction of the Nis-Dimitrovgrad railway, more precisely, the Prosek (Sicevo)-Dimitrovgrad section, of 82 km, published in late September, has now been extended until February 3.
> 
> The initial deadline for expressing an interest in the reconstruction of the only part of Corridor X that is not electrified was December 21. The overhaul of this railway has been announced for decades.
> 
> In May, the president of Serbia, Aleksandar Vucic, announced, on the occasion of his meeting with the president of Bulgaria, Rumen Radev, that the works on the full reconstruction of the Nis-Dimitrovgrad railway would begin in early 2022 and that nearly EUR 270 million would be set aside for that investment.
> 
> The funds for the financing of the project come from a loan of the European Investment Bank (EUR 134 million), grants from the Western Balkans Investment Fund – WBIF (EUR 73.04 million), and the remaining EUR 61.24 million is to be set aside from the budget of Serbia.
> 
> The job of technical assistance with the future works on the railway, worth EUR 4.14 million, at the tender published by the Serbian Railways Infrastructure, also financed by the European Investment Bank, was won by a daughter company of Deutsche Bahn, the German company DB Engineering&Consulting GmbH.


----------



## Dikan011

It's been announced that Stadler just won the procurment tender for Serbian Railways, they will now supply 18 new EMU trainsets. More details soon.


----------



## Theijs

Was this a tender for regional services, like the Flirts already in service, or for long distance EMU’s, with intercity comfort?


----------



## Dikan011

Regional services, same as the Flirts already in service.






View Notice | ECEPP







ecepp.ebrd.com


----------



## Dikan011

Large contract, valued at over 1,3 billion EUR, could be signed soon with Russian state-railway firm RZD & Sinara, concerning development of Belgrade's commuter railway and purchase of up to 46 Lastochka trainsets:









«Синара» представила проект пригородных электричек для Белграда на 1,2 млрд евро


Это может стать самым крупным инфраструктурным контрактом России в Сербии




www.vedomosti.ru







Our beloved "Gorbachov's" are on the way out.... 😢











Lastochka - ours will be blue:


----------



## Dikan011

Testing phase has begun on the new high-speed line linking Belgrade & Novi Sad (and by 2025, Subotica & Budapest) , so we should be seeing more such videos ahead of the planned March opening for revenue service:


----------



## Dikan011

Subotica-Szeged railway upgrade...


----------



## Qtya

Dikan011 said:


> Large contract, valued at over 1,3 billion EUR, could be signed soon with Russian state-railway firm RZD & Sinara, concerning development of Belgrade's commuter railway and purchase of up to 46 Lastochka trainsets:
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> «Синара» представила проект пригородных электричек для Белграда на 1,2 млрд евро
> 
> 
> Это может стать самым крупным инфраструктурным контрактом России в Сербии
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.vedomosti.ru
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> 
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> 
> 
> Our beloved "Gorbachov's" are on the way out.... 😢
> 
> 
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> Lastochka - ours will be blue:


Any news update regarding this offer?


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## Robertkc

Dikan011 said:


> Testing phase has begun on the new high-speed line linking Belgrade & Novi Sad (and by 2025, Subotica & Budapest) , so we should be seeing more such videos ahead of the planned March opening for revenue service:


It's looking like the March 1 opening will be from Belgrade (Prokop) to Petrovaradin, not all the way to Novi Sad station itself.


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## Dikan011

Qtya said:


> Any news update regarding this offer?


I'm anxiously waiting to hear something. Seems there's some delay in signing the contract, they previously said it could be signed by year-end 2021. But now is the time of holidays in both Serbia & Russia, so maybe after Serbian (Orthodox) New Year.










Srpsko-ruski sporazum o modernizaciji BG voza do kraja godine






rtv.rs


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## Dikan011

Taurus locos arrived for the testing phase of the Belgrade-Novi Sad railway...

DB Systemtechnik (DBST) was contracted for additional tests.


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## The Wild Boy

When are they going to install ETCS? Or is that already finished? How are they going to run at 200 km/h if they don't install ETCS? I'm assuming that ETCS is a must for speeds over 160 km/h.


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## dyonisien

The Wild Boy said:


> [...] I'm assuming that ETCS is a must for speeds over 160 km/h.


Now-days a bureaucratic/administrative must most probably.
Technically, speeds in the range of 200, 220, 230 km/h were practiced from the late 1960s on without that "must" in the UK, in France, in Italy, in Germany, in Belgium and in Spain (at least). Many signaling systems were perfectly able to cope with those speeds.


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## Dikan011

They've started hyping up the new Belgrade-Novi Sad service, expected to begin in March...so little bit about the new Kiss 200 trains...they're saying there will be "stewardesses' on board:


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## Josp64

Quite the same interior than the Westbahn trains....


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## Qtya

Serbian operator orders Stadler trainsets


SERBIA: Stadler Polska has beaten Alstom and Hitachi Rail to win a €112·3m contract to supply 18 four-car trainsets to national passenger operator Srbija Voz. The order is being financed by the state budget and a €100m loan from the European Bank for Reconstruction & Development. ...




www.railwaygazette.com


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## Singidunum

Test run between Belgrade and Novi Sad for 200kmh speeds









Udruženje ljubitelja železnice | 👏


👏




www.facebook.com


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## The Wild Boy

Did Serbia actually break the speed record for the fastest train in the Balkans? Or has any other country tested trains over 200 km/h? Maybe Romania or Croatia? I think Croatia had set some kind of record before.

Fastest train in Romania goes 160 km/h, i don't know if they did any speed tests.
In Bulgaria it's 150 km/h if i recall.

Edit: If i recall Greece ran tests with speeds over 200 km/h, right? They do after all plan to run that Pendolino train they have at 250 km/h on some stretches between Thessaloniki and Athens, right? 

Can Serbia actually run the test train over 200 km/h? Are they authorized to do so? I know when they were testing in Poland, they went over the 250 km/h limit and set a new record.


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## Theijs

Bulgaria performed on 16 May 2016 a test on the renewed track between Liubimets and Svilengrad. OBB Taurus 1116 257 set a speed record of 227 km/h - for first time in Bulgaria.
Taurus (1116 257) with special train and Highspeed tests in Bulgaria - YouTube


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## Ghostpoet

The Wild Boy said:


> Did Serbia actually break the speed record for the fastest train in the Balkans? Or has any other country tested trains over 200 km/h? Maybe Romania or Croatia? I think Croatia had set some kind of record before.
> 
> Fastest train in Romania goes 160 km/h, i don't know if they did any speed tests.
> In Bulgaria it's 150 km/h if i recall.
> 
> Edit: If i recall Greece ran tests with speeds over 200 km/h, right? They do after all plan to run that Pendolino train they have at 250 km/h on some stretches between Thessaloniki and Athens, right?
> 
> Can Serbia actually run the test train over 200 km/h? Are they authorized to do so? I know when they were testing in Poland, they went over the 250 km/h limit and set a new record.


Vmax in the revenue traffic in ex-Yu was 160 km/h in Croatia. When in 2000 SŽ purchased Pendolino trains the 160 km/h was introduced in Slovenia also.
Absolute speed record in Croatia was 185 km/h (tests of the JZ 442/HZ 1142 locomotive in early 1980s) and in Slovenia 210 km/h (tests of Pendolino train in late 1990s). 

Ghostpoet


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## DG89

The Wild Boy said:


> Did Serbia actually break the speed record for the fastest train in the Balkans? Or has any other country tested trains over 200 km/h? Maybe Romania or Croatia? I think Croatia had set some kind of record before.
> 
> Fastest train in Romania goes 160 km/h, i don't know if they did any speed tests.
> In Bulgaria it's 150 km/h if i recall.
> 
> Edit: If i recall Greece ran tests with speeds over 200 km/h, right? They do after all plan to run that Pendolino train they have at 250 km/h on some stretches between Thessaloniki and Athens, right?
> 
> Can Serbia actually run the test train over 200 km/h? Are they authorized to do so? I know when they were testing in Poland, they went over the 250 km/h limit and set a new record.


For Greece, officially and recorded, it was 213km/h with the ETR 485 between Katerini and Thessaloniki section in 2018.
ETR 485 Run Test
Also, many years ago tests with speeds over 250km/h have been carried out on the line before and after the Tempi Valley tunnels


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## nsnikolov

In Bulgaria a speed of 226 km/h was reached on the new line Septemvri - Plovdiv in 2016


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## The Wild Boy

So it is Greece that holds the record for the fastest speed achieved in the Balkans. 

This should be well aware off, since the Serbian president said that they broke a new speed record. They can only break Greece's speed record if they too go over 250 km/h, but will that happen? 

A lot of politicians and authorities like to claim they are the number 1 and that they did it first. Our previous mayor claimed that Skopje would get the first bus rapid transit system in the region, he clearly forgot about the one in Istanbul... 

I'm pretty sure there have been many cases where politicians have said things that weren't true. 


Oh and, i heard that the ticket for the new train from Belgrade to Novi Sad will be 50 EUR. For Balkan Standards that's quite a lot and i don't see how it could attract people to take the train. Let's not forget that the Belgrade's main railway station is hardly accessible, it won't have a connection with the metro - to - nowhere, not at least in the next 20 years... And they can promote as much as they want train travel, but no one will change to taking the train instead of driving if they keep it like this... We don't need stewardesses in the trains too, just let me enjoy the damn ride on peace. I should pay, take a quick and affordable ride, get out of the station, go to the destination and do my job, simple as that. Things do not need to be over complicated. While yes i understand this is Serbia's first such of a kind railway line, they don't have to make such a big PR out of this... As i say functionality > looks.


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## SuCumaethor

The Wild Boy said:


> Oh and, i heard that the ticket for the new train from Belgrade to Novi Sad will be 50 EUR.


As far as I heard price is not set yet. But everybody is reporting/promising that it will be no more then 1000 din (8.5 EUR).
danar.rs
Just for reference on same line NS-BG bus fares go from 650 din (5.5 euros) to 850 din (7.2 euros) and it takes little less then 1 hour.


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## nsnikolov

SuCumaethor said:


> As far as I heard price is not set yet. But everybody is reporting/promising that it will be no more then 1000 din (8.5 EUR).
> danar.rs
> Just for reference on same line NS-BG bus fares go from 650 din (5.5 euros) to 850 din (7.2 euros) and it takes little less then 1 hour.


Of course it's not 50€, with 50€ you can travel from Belgrade to München. Тhe special offer Belgrade - Budapest used to cost 15€ , so 1000 din for BG-NS is reasonable.


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## nsnikolov

*In the next two years, "Serbian Railway Infrastructure" will dismantle and remove about 435 km of old railways in Serbia, on which railway traffic has not taken place for decades.*

„Инфраструктура железнице Србије“ у наредне две године демонтираће и уклонити око 435 км старих пруга у Србији, на којима се железнички саобраћај деценијама не одвија


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## TomicasAliExpressa

So, to recap the record speed in SE Europe:
1. Bulgaria - 227 km/h | Romania - 227mh/h
2. Turkey(West of Bosporus part) - 220km/h
2. Greece - 213 km/h
3. Slovenia - 210 km/h
4. Serbia - 201.5 km/h
5. Croatia** - 183.7 km/h

** During test of prototype, Vmax in Croatia is 160km/h


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## Baron Hirsch

If you include all of Turkey as SE Europe, you have operational speeds there of 250 kmh on the HSR to Ankara and Konya (which means a max of 275 kmh during testing). If you only include Turkey west of the Bosporus, a new 200 kmh line (ca. 220 kmh in tests) Istanbu-Edirne is due to open by 2024.


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## Singidunum

TomicasAliExpressa said:


> So, to recap the record speed in SE Europe:
> 1. Bulgaria - 227 km/h
> 2. Greece - 213 km/h
> 3. Slovenia - 210 km/h
> 4. Croatia* - 183.7 km/h
> 5. Serbia** - 181 km/h
> 
> * During test of prototype, Vmax in Croatia is 160km/h
> ** Testing is still in progress and I will edit this post once it finishes


201.5 kmh for Serbia









NOVI REKORD NA SRPSKOJ PRUZI: Voz dostigao brzinu od 201,5 km na sat


VOZ sa mernim kolima Nemačkih železnica za testiranje brze pruge od Beograda do Novog Sada, dostigao je brzinu od 201,5 kilometara na sat, rečeno je Tanjugu u Infrastrukturi železnice Srbije.




www.novosti.rs


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## The Wild Boy

TomicasAliExpressa said:


> So, to recap the record speed in SE Europe:
> 1. Bulgaria - 227 km/h
> 2. Greece - 213 km/h
> 3. Slovenia - 210 km/h
> 4. Croatia* - 183.7 km/h
> 5. Serbia** - 181 km/h
> 
> * During test of prototype, Vmax in Croatia is 160km/h
> ** Testing is still in progress and I will edit this post once it finishes


Wait, didn't Greece go over 213km/h? I think there was a run they did over 213 km/h, someone had a video posted of it on this forum, but i can't seem to find it.

And what about Romania? Have they gone over 160 km/h in tests?


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## Theijs

The Wild Boy said:


> What about Romania?


CFR Class 42 holds the speed record in Romania (227 km/h in 1997, on Florești Prahova - Buda line).

Source: Electroputere LE5100 - Wikipedia


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## Balkanmiddleeastern

You forgot Turkey...


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## The Wild Boy

Balkanmiddleeastern said:


> You forgot Turkey...


But Turkey has 2 parts. Obviously if we include the entire Turkey, they would easily win because they have ICE trains running on a high speed railway line capable of 300 km/h speeds. 

I don't know what's the situation on the European side tho, since i know that Turkey had plans to build a "high speed" railway line to Bulgaria. I think they are already building it, but is that 300 km/h too? 
Is there a thread for that new railway line towards Bulgaria? I can't seem to find it on the forum.


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## Baron Hirsch

The line from Istanbul to Edirne and the Bulgarian border is partially u/c. The section which is being financed by an EU loan from the border until Cerkezköy, approximately 2/3 of the way, has reached 50 % completion and is due to finish by 2024. Unfortunately, the middle section Cerkezköy to the Istanbul suburbs is not yet u/c, as this part must be financed by the Turkish state directly or per private credit. However, the start could be close, if the financial crisis does not get worse. 
The line was initially designed for 250 kmh, but the EU creditors opposed this. It was then redesigned for 200 kmh and mixed passenger and freight services and found approval. 
You are right that we have neglected to update the Turkish Railways thread with this and other developments, maybe in the near future I will try to put some more detailed information there.


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## Theijs

Photos of the modernisation of Subotica - Horgos - Szeged:








Udruženje ljubitelja železnice | Železnička stanica na Paliću takođe dobija svoj sjaj


Železnička stanica na Paliću takođe dobija svoj sjaj. Radovi na uređenju stanične zgrade su velikoj meri završeni. U toku su radovi na postavci koloseka,kao i skretnica. Do granice sa Mađarskom,...




www.facebook.com


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## Аполон




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## Robertkc

Interesting article from Emerging Europe on the state of railways in the Western Balkans. Didn't realise Albania had completely ceased all passenger train ops! 
Getting trains in the Western Balkans back on track


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## Robertkc

Theijs said:


> Photos of the modernisation of Subotica - Horgos - Szeged:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Udruženje ljubitelja železnice | Železnička stanica na Paliću takođe dobija svoj sjaj
> 
> 
> Železnička stanica na Paliću takođe dobija svoj sjaj. Radovi na uređenju stanične zgrade su velikoj meri završeni. U toku su radovi na postavci koloseka,kao i skretnica. Do granice sa Mađarskom,...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.facebook.com


How is this route going to work in practice vis-a-vis border checks?


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## Theijs

First work train on renewed stretch Subutica - Horgos.








Photo posted by Goran C on Facebook.


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## fajfer2003

Is it connected on the Hungarian side?


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## Theijs

On the Hungarian side modernisation works to Szeged are taking me place as well, but they started later than the works in Serbia.


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## Qtya

You can find some more-or-less pix of the works going on the Hungarian side, here: [Szeged] Térségi közösségi közlekedés | Regional public...


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## Дisiдent

🍻 🍻 🍻 

*Vucic, Orban on first high-speed train ride from Belgrade to Novi Sad*

*The Belgrade-Novi Sad railway, within the Belgrade-Budapest international railway, officially started operating on Saturday. The ride on the first high-speed train on that route included Serbian President Aleksandar Vucic, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban and members of the Serbian government.*

The train arrived in Novi Sad just before 12 o’clock, in about 35 minutes.

“This will further bring the Serbians and Hungarians closer, Budapest will be only two, two and a half hours away from us,“ said Vucic, assessing the moment as historic.

Prime Minister Ana Brnabic said she was too happy about this, adding this only shows how different Serbia is today.

“I can only imagine how much it will affect the quality of life, when a student from Belgrade is able to travel to Novi Sad for classes. This is new Serbia,” she stressed.

Hungary's Orban noted that the two countries and two capital cities are being connected today and that the life was made easier for the Serbians and the Hungarians. HE also said that the friendship between the two nations has never been closer than it is today.


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## thebeatlesalways123

is this made in china ?


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## nsnikolov

thebeatlesalways123 said:


> is this made in china ?


The train is Swiss Stadler KISS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadler_KISS


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## Дisiдent




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## Qtya

__ https://www.facebook.com/92649604427/posts/10161588729749428


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## EAUSERB




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## Arnorian

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1521785702664523778


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## keber

A fence between tracks would prevent most crossings of people on stations.


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## AndreiB

Lol, what idiots. Still - behaviour is very hard to shift. Fencing solves 90% of the problem.


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## The Wild Boy

Even if you were to erect a 20m tall fence, it still wouldn't change a thing if the people are idiots. 

Increase the fines for illegally crossing the fast railway and just force people to adjust to a normal behavior.


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## keber

Fence solves most illegal crossings, fines don't do that. Do you expect that police will control every possible station and crossings?
Even one meter high fence does wonders.


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## OnRail123

Low platforms just seem ever so inviting. Dare anyone to try with high platforms.


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