# ITALY - Stadium and Arena Development News



## JimB

cellete said:


> I think Juve is right doing that; the atmosphere in Delle Alpi is cold even in some matches in Champions.


I don't think Juve are doing the right thing at all.

Without doubt, they cannot stay at stadio delle alpi as things stand. A club like Juve should be getting more than the pitiful average 25,000 attendance they have at the moment (they are supposed to be the best supported club in Italy, after all, and a smaller club like Manchester City had significantly higher gates than that, even when in English football's third division a few years ago). But the option Juve have chosen - to build a reduced capacity stadium within the current stadium - is stupid beyond belief.

One of the main objections to stadio delle alpi is its location. If they go ahead with current plans, nothing will have been done to address that particular objection. Furthermore, if Juve had decided instead to build a new 60,000+ stadium more centrally, I'm sure that they could sell out as often as not - meaning far more revenue generating potential. What with their sizeable turnover, the Agnelli millions and almost certain financial assistance from local government, it's not as if they would lack the funds for such a project.


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## MoreOrLess

I'd guess someone is probabley covering themselves politcally with the delle alpi renovation, its less of an admission of a mistake with the original devolpment than if the club had totally moved out. Maybe the club is getting additional assistance with it in return?

Juve havent ever been the best supported club in italy though, tradisionally their behind both Milan and Rome clubs and Napoli. They've only averaged over 50,000 a season once in their history and are normally closer to 35-40,000.


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## JimB

MoreOrLess said:
 

> Juve havent ever been the best supported club in italy though, tradisionally their behind both Milan and Rome clubs and Napoli. They've only averaged over 50,000 a season once in their history and are normally closer to 35-40,000.


In terms of attendances, they're not the best supported club but, in terms of numbers of supporters in Italy, they are the best supported club - the Man Utd of Italy, with fans all over the country. Not surprising given that, domestically, they are the most successful club.

I'd agree, incidentally, that the decision to go ahead with this awful compromise at stadio delle alpi is little more than a face saving exercise.


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## dreaad

the Delle Alpi stadium will be partially rebuild without the athletics track and the view will be as good as the english stadium (even else the worst is the rome stadium for the view). 
Works will start after finishing the current league.

the capacity will be dropped to about 41.000 people but the design is fantastic.

some renderings:
















now the best stadium in italy is san siro (i love it!!)


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## adidas

Nice renderings


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## Giorgio

WOW That design is Awesome!! Go italy!


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## MoreOrLess

JimB said:


> In terms of attendances, they're not the best supported club but, in terms of numbers of supporters in Italy, they are the best supported club - the Man Utd of Italy, with fans all over the country. Not surprising given that, domestically, they are the most successful club.
> 
> I'd agree, incidentally, that the decision to go ahead with this awful compromise at stadio delle alpi is little more than a face saving exercise.


Man Utd have had the best attendaces in England pretty much every season for the last 35 years though, Juve have never been anywhere near that so I don't see how they can claim to be the best supported team(most liked maybe).

If someone elses face is being saved then as I said I wouldnt be supprized if Juve have been given some financial incentive to stay and redevolp rather than move so it maybe worth their while.


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## Carletto

Juventus has one of the worst attendances in Italy, expecially if you take a look at the season tickets. It's true it has more fans throughout the country, but has not so many in its hometown, Turin, where the other team (Torino Calcio) has by far more supporters, even if they are doing very badly since many years. Juve has many supporters from Southern Italy, many of them work for FIAT in Turin and in other towns as well. So a 40k stadium is more than enough for the black-white team.

Talking about AC Milan the situation is much different, they have supporters and San Siro is often full or almost full, the problem is that you need binoculars to see the players from the cheapest places of the stadium. They said that Schalke 04 stadium in Gelsenkirchen is the best one and they would like to have something similar; and they are right, the German stadium is fantastic, much better than any other stadium in Italy. But the big problem here is that the stadium usually are owned by the city government, and not by the team. And they can use it just for the football matches, no other things. While a private owned stadium by only 1 team could be used for many other purpouses, like in the UK or in Germany. The other big problem is that attendance is getting lower and lower, that's due to high prices (few chaep seats), a lot of football on TV for much less, boring matches (only the usual 3 teams can fight for the "scudetto"), violence, corruption and so on... people are tired, even if we all like football.


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## JimB

Carletto said:


> It's true it has more fans throughout the country, but has not so many in its hometown, Turin.


Thanks for confirming what I thought.



> They said that Schalke 04 stadium in Gelsenkirchen is the best one and they would like to have something similar; and they are right, the German stadium is fantastic, much better than any other stadium in Italy.


It's a good stadium and the Schalke fans are very passionate but (having admittedly only ever seen it on TV and in pictures), the stadium seems a bit soulless and lacking in character.



> The other big problem is that attendance is getting lower and lower, that's due to high prices (few chaep seats), a lot of football on TV for much less.


I'm not sure that the price of tickets is the big problem. The majority of tickets for Serie A games are much cheaper than for games in the English Premiership. Only the most expensive tickets are on a par with similar tickets in England. However, I think you're right to say that TV exposure is a major problem. Isn't every game for every club now televised live?


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## gruber

Galliani is a stupid asshole.

all that interview about San Siro is pure propaganda.
Milan and Inter want buy San Siro stadium by the municiaplity of Milano that is the owner of the field from the 40's.
San Siro is a perfect stadium to watch football match, without trak field, with 85.700 all seat places, skybox and an excellent view also on the third level at more than 50 meters over the ground.
The Municipality have a estimate of the price from Merryl Linch and others that is around 100 Millions of Euro.
the 2 teams want pay less than an half part.

so that asshole of Galliani that is at the same time President of Milan and President of the Lega Serie A (we like that conflictual positions...Berlusconi...) spoke bad about all the stadiums to have a better price for S.Siro.

1 months ago also the President of Inter, Massimo Moratti, wrote to newspapars that Inter want a new stadium, perhaps outside Milano.
a double offensive against the Municipality: dont' buy S.Siro and built the new stadium outside the borderline of Milano, in the Metro Area (the Municipality will lost an enormous amount in taxes).

so...now is the moment of Galliani, on the next week of Moratti...

the important thing is that the 2 wankers talks, and the Municipality ...works to change in better the stadium.

btw.
about the Race Track.
only 2 stadium for Italia 1990 were built with the trakcs: Bari and Torino.
all the rest have the race track also before the renovation of the 90.


stadiums are empty (not all...S.Siro is full all the season, normlly) cause there are matches on tv at 4 Euro.
'cause stadiums are full of stupid idiots (the Ultras fans), and also cause some, few, stadiums are very worst to see football (Torino, Napoli, Roma, Bari).

another big problems of Italian Serie A, is that teams of some big cities are in 2° or 3° division..or less!
Torino (1.7 M in Metro Area) = SERIE B
Genoa (1 M) = SERIE C1
Napoli (4 M) = SERIE C1
Catania (1 M) = SERIE B
Bari (0.8 M) = SERIE B
Taranto (0.4) = serie????????????
and the same thing with cities with 300.000 or more as Trieste, Brescia, Bergamo...


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## Falcon83

^^^yes, there's SKY calcio, and you can see the matches on the internet with rossoalice for few euros.


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## ManchesterISwonderful

MoreOrLess said:


> Man Utd have had the best attendaces in England pretty much every season for the last 35 years though, Juve have never been anywhere near that so I don't see how they can claim to be the best supported team(most liked maybe).
> 
> If someone elses face is being saved then as I said I wouldnt be supprized if Juve have been given some financial incentive to stay and redevolp rather than move so it maybe worth their while.



In fact best for the last 50 years, give or take three or four seasons. I would say since Busby took over. But we had our biggest attendances just after the war, a few over 80,000.

As for Juve. They've got a huge fanbase, but from what I've heard they're spread out all over the country.


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## gruber

Juve have the most part of its fans in the South Italy, where apart Napoli, there were never good teams in the past 100 years.
In the city of Torino the fans of the Toro as probably more numerous than the ones of Juve, and in the Region of Torino, the Piedmont, the fans of Torino are highest than the one of Juve.
Another big number of Juve Fan are located in the Milano Metro Area, specially in the northern region called Brianza (around Monza) where the most part of population is Juve supporters.

some years ago Juve played some home matches of UEFA cup (Semifinal, Final and maybe also the QF) at San Siro! and they had an attendance of 80.000 people.

when there were troubles in Juve stadium, and the field were closed for 1 or more games, Juve normally played in South Italy and not close to Torino.
they have more supporter outside thery home ground.

the last official census of football fans in Italy


2001

Juventus 11.040.000 37% 
Inter 6.728.000 23% 
Milan 5.818.000 20% 
Roma 2.886.000 10% 
Lazio 2.070.000 7% 

Fonte: AC Nielsen, Marzo 2001 

1999 
%
Juventus 32 
Milan 16 
Inter 15 
Napoli 7 
Roma 5 
Lazio 4 
Fiorentina 4 
Torino 2 
Bologna 2 
Sampdoria 1 
Cagliari 1 
other taems 11 

Fonte: Indagine Doxa 1999 

and this is a European statistical research.
Juventus win cause in Europe there are millions of south italian emigrates, and south Italians are all fan of Juventus or Napoli.


Juventus 
Fans in Italy 11.040.000
Fans in Europe 7.138.100 
Total 18.178.100

Real Madrid 
5.206.000 
9.875.000 
15.081.000 

Manchester Utd. 
4.366.000 
9.051.000 
13.417.000 

Barcellona 
4.836.000 
6.993.000 
10.829.300 

Milan 
4.572.000 
4.560.000 
9.132.500 

Fonte: Sport+Markt 2003


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## MoreOrLess

Depends what you class as "fans/supporters" I spose is it those who claim to like/follow a team or those that go to the actual games? since where talking about the size of the stadium I think the latter is the more relevant number, so short of moving to that regoin of Milan or southern Italy I don't see Juve filling a 60,000 seat stadium often.

As for the San Siro I think you just have to accept that in an all seater stadium that size the seats at the very back are not going to have an amazing view, the AufSchalke Arena in comparason has over 30,000 fewer seats.


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## gruber

are all simple questions: "which team do you like?"
it's the ipotetical number of fans.
not the ones that go to see the matches at stadium!

about stadium.
the difference with normal English stadium is that in Italy we dont' have single gigantic stands.
but more levels. one over the others.
so in San Siro the view from the second level is PERFECT, and the view from the Third Level is identical of the last seats of Anfield on the top of the stands!
the Third Level of San Siro is veru close to the vertical limit, and there is abetter view there than in ALL the stadiums with race tracks and also in some single gigantic stands as in Usa and England.
The old Webley was terrible to see a football match, as the Coliseum in LA is far away from the ground! the single stand is the problem!


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## andysimo123

In most cases a fan is classed as a member of the club. Not always through. I know that alot of fan figures in the English leagues go of the number of members.


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## JimB

ManchesterISwonderful said:


> In fact best for the last 50 years, give or take three or four seasons. I would say since Busby took over.


Not actually true. Moreorless was right.

Between 1955 and 1972, Tottenham, Everton and Liverpool (three times each) and Chelsea (once) all topped the league average attendance for the season. And in a fair number of those seasons Utd finished 3rd, 4th, 5th and even 7th in the list. So although, in that period, Man Utd topped the averages seven times, it wasn't until 33 years ago that they became consistently the best supported team.


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## gruber

i read that the Man Utd became the most supported team of England also for the tragedy of Munchen.
The same happened in Italy in the 50's for the Torino when the plane crashed on the Superga Church on the 1949, and many young people becam fan of Torino.

but after 15 years, more or less, it's ended. and today is the 8th or 9th team in Italy as number of fan.

how Man Utd have so many fans, also in the 70's and 80's when it won nothing?!


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## JimB

gruber said:


> Juventus
> Fans in Italy 11.040.000
> Fans in Europe 7.138.100
> Total 18.178.100
> 
> Real Madrid
> 5.206.000
> 9.875.000
> 15.081.000
> 
> Manchester Utd.
> 4.366.000
> 9.051.000
> 13.417.000
> 
> Barcellona
> 4.836.000
> 6.993.000
> 10.829.300
> 
> Milan
> 4.572.000
> 4.560.000
> 9.132.500
> 
> Fonte: Sport+Markt 2003


Even if accurate, it's a fairly meaningless statistic since that sort of "support" only matters if they actually contribute to the club in some way. Man Utd and Real Madrid (who both have much greater far eastern support than Juve and, in the case of Madrid, much greater support in South America) seem to be the only clubs in that list who can translate this sort of support significantly into commercial gain.

Besides, such statistics are notoriously fickle. They are calculated from a small sample of surveyed fans. I saw a report recently which said that Chelsea's support in Europe had grown by something like four million in Europe over the past twelve months and that Man Utd's had collapsed by two or three million. That tells me that either these so called supporters were not worth having in the first place (they'll jump from team to team, depending on who's doing well) or that the statisticians were working with very poor data. Either way, their findings are not to be trusted by football clubs as a true indicator of support.


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## JimB

gruber said:


> i read that the Man Utd became the most supported team of England also for the tragedy of Munchen.
> The same happened in Italy in the 50's for the Torino when the plane crashed on the Superga Church on the 1949, and many young people becam fan of Torino.
> 
> but after 15 years, more or less, it's ended. and today is the 8th or 9th team in Italy as number of fan.
> 
> how Man Utd have so many fans, also in the 70's and 80's when it won nothing?!


They won a lot of support because of the Busby babes and then, of course, because of the tragic plane crash. But the support grew because of the next great team that Busby put together - particularly George Best, Bobby Charlton and Dennis Law. Then, of course, they became the first English club to win the European Cup. Even in their wilderness years in the 70's and 80's, they still won the FA Cup often enough to carry on attracting fans.


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## Martuh

ravanellidiciamo said:


> the capacity is only 27.000 (35.000 for the Olympics....)
> 
> The Stadium is the old one in Turin, renewed (it was the one used for the football matches od Juventus FC and Torino Calcio, before the construction of the "Italia '90" Delle Alpi stadium).
> 
> The old version of this stadium had only two rings and a small covering for the spectators. it was built by Mussolini for the first Univerisiad ever, in 1930. Its first name was "Stadio Mussolini", after WWII renamed "Stadio Comunale" (Municipal Stadium).
> 
> Actually Torino Calcio will play there from the next season, and Juventus FC will renew the Delle Alpi stadium.... "one stadium for each football team"... like in England.


I thought Torino bankrupted?


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## cianobuckley

as a matter of curiousity who has the larger average home attendances, inter or milan?


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## MoreOrLess

64k last season for Milan and 59k for Inter although the derby is normally near full.


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## ravanellidiciamo

Martuh said:


> I thought Torino bankrupted?


yes...


but thanxs to "strange" italian laws it had the possibility to restart from the "Serie B".

Torino has not anymore the property of the "olympic Stadium", but at 99% the Olympic stadium (with a new name) will be the home of Torino.

only for the next season (and maybe already at the end of this one) Juventus and Torino will play togheter in the olympic stadium, while Juventus will restructure the Delle Alpi to make it its new home.


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## Kai Tak

ravanellidiciamo said:


> ...it was built by Mussolini...


Mussolini for the Olympics, then we get Hitler's Olympiastadion for the World Cup! Seems we're hitting all the high notes this year in Europe.


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## SkyLerm

I think it would be a pity that both teams leave this amazing stadium, one of my favourites and 2nd largest football stadium in Europe at the moment.


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## ravanellidiciamo

Kai Tak said:


> Mussolini for the Olympics, then we get Hitler's Olympiastadion for the World Cup! Seems we're hitting all the high notes this year in Europe.












look at that....

that's the Florence stadium also built by Mussolini in 30s (and renewed for Italia '90).

Its form recall a "D" that stands for "Duce".... (Mussolini "nickname".. or "title" )



this word inspired Hitler's "Fuhrer" (both words mean kinda "leader", or "guide").


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## Rhoy

*Torino 2006 Venues, the Olympics are coming!*

Now that all venues are ready to host the XX Winter Olympic Games I want to offer you some pics..
I hope you will appreciate it..  

starting with *Torino*..


*Palavela*, Figure Skating and Short Track Speed Skating
Capacity: 8000/10,000 seats


















































































the *Oval Lingotto*, Speed Skating
Capacity: 8000 seats


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## Rhoy

the *Olympic Stadium*, Ceremonies and the *PalaIsozaki*, Hockey


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## Sonic from Padova

*Palahockey Torino 2006*

Palahockey Torino 2006

The new building was in fact designed by Arata Isozaki with Giuseppe Amaro and Marco Brizio who took great care to ensure that it would be usable after the Olympics have ended, giving rise to an "event factory", versatile and flexible because of its moveable floors and stands, thus permitting the interior layout to be modified and making the hockey stadium suitable for concerts, conventions and shows too.
The building is on 4 levels: a basement at 7,50 metres below ground, with a competition rink and service facilities, an intermediate level at 3.75 metres below ground for the Olympic family, the media and the sports federations; ground level, used for the entrances and for easy access to the stands; and a floor at 6 metres above ground which serves as a perimeter gallery for circulation containing refreshment facilities.
The hockey rink has been placed at 7.50 metres below ground to reduce the height of the building and the stands are also partially below ground: an idea that has also avoided the need for long emergency stairs, turning them into brief exit routes to the exterior.
When the public enters the complex they arrive at a point halfway up the stands, from which they either go up or down to reach their seats.
On the exterior the Palahockey looks like a large rectangular stainless steel box, suspended over a cement and glass base. The panels, with an matt bubble finish, give the building a dynamic and "vibrating" appearance, as well as reflecting the surroundings and creating light effects. The staggered and irregular arrangement of the panels also increases this illusion of "movement".
Inside, on the contrary, there are perforated and sound absorbent aluminium panels to reduce the level of sound. Ceilings too are in matt-finish stainless steel, to create continuity with the facade, thus confirming the idea of a steel box inside too.
At ground level, on the contrary, the facades on the longer sides are in glass and can be opened, thus creating continuity with the park and the square outside.

The other sides are faced with lightweight cement panels. The exterior paving is in Luserna stone bordering large areas of concrete and grey stone chips.
The same stone is used to face the underground airshaft and for the curbs around the lamps with three rotating projectors used to light up the façade of the building. The construction of this new complex is part of a broader scheme to redefine the area, where the existing structures were designed for the Football World Cup in 1934.
Indeed, this is where the municipal stadium is, as well as the "Maratona" Tower and the Piazza d'Armi park. This new project aims to define a scenario in which existing facilities are refurbished and integrated by new buildings.

Some pics of this fantastic palahockey built for Turin 2006 Winter games!


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## Isaac Newell

Is that steel roof on the stadio Communale permanent ?


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## Tosco

Who's the architect?


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## Melchisedeck

Tosco said:


> Who's the architect?


Perhaps Arata Isozaki !


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## CAESARS-PALACe

*ROME : Aquatic Stadium by Calatrava*

Rome was chosen to host the 2009 World Swimming Championships. For this event new infrastructure will be built, the main project is Santiago Calatrava's "City of Sport" with the aquatic stadium. A few weeks ago there was a presentation of the first model of the project (a massing model).Some pictures (quality of the pics is not great unfortunaly :sleepy: ). I will update this thread when there is a better model and renderings  .


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## Giorgio

Calatrava indeed.


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## ravanellidiciamo

*Delle Alpi Stadium, Turin (Italy)*

a weird and fresh pic of the Juventus' home.


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## Kampflamm

When are they gonna start the remodeling of the place?


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## highburysouljah

people dont like it but when its full the atmosphere is amazing its like a colousium


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## ravanellidiciamo

Kampflamm said:


> When are they gonna start the remodeling of the place?


at the end of the season, probably after the end of Torino FC Serie B's playoff.

Next year Juventus and Torino will play in the brand-new Olympic Stadium, during the renewal of Delle Alpi.

Then Torino will rest at the Olympic Stadium, which probably will be renamed "Grande Torino" stadium in memory of the legendary team of the 40s.

Juventus will play in the renewed Delle Alpi which will be renamed with a name of a sponsor... it seems that it will be Siemens so --> Siemens Arena.


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## ravanellidiciamo

highburysouljah said:


> people dont like it but when its full the atmosphere is amazing its like a colousium


u right yo...

sadly the new arena will have a capacity of 33.000 seats only, but it will be finally a soccer stadium and not an Olympic Stadium...


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## Kampflamm

highburysouljah said:


> people dont like it but when its full the atmosphere is amazing its like a colousium


Yeah but how often has that been the case over the past few seasons?


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## highburysouljah

true the juve fans hate it that why they stopped coming as protest. i think the problem is the location of it.


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## Kampflamm

ravanellidiciamo said:


> u right yo...
> 
> sadly the new arena will have a capacity of 33.000 seats only, but it will be finally a soccer stadium and not an Olympic Stadium...


Only 33,000 seats? I thought it would have at least 40,000. It's kind of sad that the most successful team in Italian football will get such a small stadium. Could it even be part of any future EC or WC bids?


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## Drogba

Where is the stadium?


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## CAESARS-PALACe

^^


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## BobDaBuilder

Isn't the main reason the people of Turin do not go to Dell Alpi because of its location and not just the dimensions of the current stadium.

Supposedly the old Stadio Communale, now called the Winter Olympics stadium, used to be the home ground of Juventus up until the 1990 World Cup and they used to get 60,000 a game there largely due to its central location in Turin.


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## Durbsboi

The Juve fans are mad, that stadium flippin amazing, cant believe they want another one!


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## gruber

Juve match tickets are very expansive respect all the other Italian teams.
a part of that the large part of Juve fans aren't in Torino or in Piedmont, but in the whole Italy.
for the large part in South Italy and for another big part in the northern part of Milan Metro Area.
when in the past Juve played some matches of Uefa Cup in San Siro (Milan's stadium) there were the sold out everytime (85.000 people).

so, i think that a 33.000 stadium for Juve is good, cause the average of an entire championship in the home matche is ...lowest than than capacity!
i think that are many years that Juve don't have a sold out at home, so the new stadium should be small only for 1 or 2 matches in an entire championship and cups.

@Durbsboi.
the Delle Alpi, actually stadium of Juve is really beautiful as architecture, but is terrifiant to see a footbal match.
really terrifiant.


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## ravanellidiciamo

gruber said:


> @Durbsboi.
> the Delle Alpi, actually stadium of Juve is really beautiful as architecture, but is terrifiant to see a footbal match.
> really terrifiant.


fortunately... they will keep the external architecture... because of a deal with the Turin Municipality.

that's why the capacity could not be more of 33.000, caused by the limited space for the new, internal cover for the seats.

anyway only in Italy could happen that a new Stadium is being built in another stadium built only 15 years ago. ridicolous...


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## gruber

ravanellidiciamo said:


> anyway only in Italy could happen that a new Stadium is being built in another stadium built only 15 years ago. ridicolous...


i'm not sure...there are dozens of stadiums around the world that have doubled the cost during the works.

the new Wembley is a funny joke! it should be ended 1 months ago...but no one know when it will be finished.
the FA Cup final will be played also that year in Cardiff, and the big company that is building the new Wembley is really close to the financial crack.

the wonderful Montreal Olympic stadium was a tragedy...it was built for the 1976 games and the people of Montreal is STILL paying for!
it was the first stadium in the world with a removable roof. unfortunally it was opened 1 time. not more.
the day that workers ended they opened the roof.
today is still opened....

in California, at San Francisco - Berkeley there is a University stadium that is exactley built over one of the most bigger Faults of North America. that big stadium is every year a little big larger...and i don't think that it's one of the most confortable and safe place...in California!

the newst roof of an important German stadium built for the 2006 WC, have big problems with the rain....that filtred as a FALL in the field ground from some holes!

...


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## Martuh

highburysouljah said:


> people dont like it but when its full the atmosphere is amazing its like a colousium


its never full so theres never an amazing atmosphere.


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## gruber

Martuh said:


> its never full so theres never an amazing atmosphere.


correct.
and more, there is the atlethic field that separates people from the ground.
if you want to see something similar to a coliseum in Italy there are only 2 stadiums, San Siro in Milano and Marassi in Genoa, both built ONLY for football, without atlethic field and built with a "vertical" shape, and not, as in Usa as big cup.


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## BobDaBuilder

If they sell out every time they play home games in San Siro, why don't they relocate there? They would make a fortune in comparison to staying put in Turin.


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## gruber

cause in Italy, and also in all the rest of Europe we don't use the relocation for Sports Clubs.
it never happened in Football, and only few times in the last decades for Volleyball, Basketball and Ice Hockey.
but NEVER in football.

can you imagine the L.A. Lakers that next year will play in New York???

or the Manchester Utd that will play in London????


mmhhh...

top teams in Italian Football take money not from stadiums but from TV and sponsor.
so, can have also small stadium and few people.


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## BobDaBuilder

The LA Lakers were originally from Minneapolis, therefore "The Lakers", not too many lakes around LA.

Most of Man U's support comes from London.

Anyhow, I understand your point. 'Tradition'. Mind you I recall Juventus flirting with the idea by playing the odd match up there a few years ago. Are you telling me the boss of Juventus didn't consider the idea?


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## Forza Raalte

Moving a team to another city just isn't something for Europeans. The real supporters hate other cities because of their football clubs. If Ajax was moved to Rotterdam, man I couldn't imagine what would happen. People will come with spears, molotov-cocktails and stuff and their will be riots all across the city! (not really but to show you how bad it is )


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## BobDaBuilder

^^^^^^^^

Yes, I have been to Italy a number of times and seen it for myself.


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## Falcon83

10-15 years ago there were some rumors saying that Juventus was moving from Turin to Palermo, but it never happened.


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## Its AlL gUUd

Ajax and Rotterdam = Holland


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## gruber

BobDaBuilder said:


> The LA Lakers were originally from Minneapolis, therefore "The Lakers", not too many lakes around LA.
> 
> Most of Man U's support comes from London.
> 
> Anyhow, I understand your point. 'Tradition'. Mind you I recall Juventus flirting with the idea by playing the odd match up there a few years ago. Are you telling me the boss of Juventus didn't consider the idea?



the Lakers were moved from Minneapolis to LA in the beginnings of the 50's, when NBA in Usa has an average of public as the Alpins Ski in Sudan and there were matches on TVs.
the same thing happened with the Dodgers in the MLB.
today isn't impossible that a big team moves from Ny to LA.
in Usa happened, but with the low level teams, and for a different "conception" of sports. more commercial and less linked with the tradition.
in Europe a team is very often an expression of the city.
Barcelona FC is the Spriti of Catalan people.
Roma AC is more than a footbal club for the people of the Italian capital.
the same thing for the Napoli, that today is in the 3th series and sometimes have 70.000 people at stadium!

Juventus is a little bit different. it was settled in a city that is not famous to have great passions. people of Torino is know in Italy to be not very passionate. a little bit..."british".
then, from the 20's the owners are the Agnelli family, a dynasty that controlled the FIAT, that for many decades had in Torino more than 100.000 people that worked for them.
so it wasn't easy that the workers of Fiat should also Juve Fans!
Juve have the most part of fans in South Italy, cause, except Napoli, in all that part of the country there were NEVER good football team.
the fews that played in the top series were everytime relegated or bad loosers.
so, people, became Juve fan, cause Juve won!
the other big area of Juve supporter is the north Milan, cause the 2 main team of the Metro Area are both settled in Milano, and a larga, large part of people that live in the Metro Area have a big rivality with the "capital" of the region. so, they are for a large part Juve fans.

the boss' of Juve talked about a transfer of Juve in the North Milan Metro Area (close to Monza) only for 1 reason:
they want have a good price from the City Council of Torino for the new stadium!

and they had that.
so now, they'll can built a stadium, small, but with shops, restaurants, bars, museum and many other.


----------



## bigbossman

bumdingo said:


> Most Italian stadiums are tired and in need of major overhauls. The reason they don't is because Serie A is 2nd rate league with no fan interest


lol what a comment, around 20 years ago they were averaging 40,000 in the same terrible stadiums, television is the problem, they haven't had the churn the premier league has had, new fans replacing old. New stadiums might help this!


----------



## piraB4L

Is what it there a plans of building to make a basket arèna bugger some years?


----------



## Metal

Lol, this is the only thread about development news with no pics, renderings and no news! Rofl!


----------



## Federicoft

bumdingo said:


> Most Italian stadiums are tired and in need of major overhauls. The reason they don't is because Serie A is 2nd rate league with no fan interest


Lol, you have no clue.
The real reason is stadiums are public owned so no club puts money into them. Hopefully things are changing though, and in the next few years we'll see private stadiums in this country as well (Inter FC, Roma, Juventus, Sampdoria etc.).


----------



## Carrerra

Metal said:


> Lol, this is the only thread about development news with no pics, renderings and no news! Rofl!


:lol::lol::lol:hno:hno:hno:


----------



## TohrAlkimista

Fiorentina's owner, Della Valle, just presented to the press the new project for a huge entertainment park, in which there will be the new stadium of Fiorentina too.

The project has a lot of chances to be built.

At the moment, they're finding a good location for the complex, in the suburbs of Florence.

Here some renderings:


----------



## www.sercan.de

looks like ~30,000-35,000


----------



## TohrAlkimista

46.000 seats.


----------



## mihai_alex

Is it just me,but does this look horrid?
It's just like a 2 year old came up with it.


----------



## TohrAlkimista

It is very cool. It's a huge glass-cover, like a giant cloud.

The project is designed by Fuksas.

His works with glass are usually amazing.

Then the complex is very interesting with some museums, theme parks etc etc...


----------



## berkshire royal

That is awful I really don't like it. Is it just me or is every new stadium proposal in Europe getting more and more over the top in terms of exterior design, I think someone needs to tell the architects that they are designing a sports arena not an art museum. It's like it's a competition for making the most over the top exterior, it started with the Allianz Arena and ever since then we have been seeing more and more stadiums coming up with a wacko design, don't get me wrong most look alright it's just getting a bit ridiculous now that every new stadium is having an exterior like this and it's even more disappointing when you see the interior where it tends to look like they have copied 15 designs before hand and have put little or no effort into it. 
I think Fiorentina should be ambitious and go for a 50,000 capacity, after all they got an average attendance of 30,000+ last season and in a new stadium attendances would go up by at least 10,000 possibly 15,000, this would allow greater revenue.


----------



## www.sercan.de

Thats one of the reason why i like the new GS more.
For me stadiums is "playing field surrouned by stands".
So the stands are IMO much more important. Actually they are the place od the "user". The fans etc.

Nearly every new project just show the outside. Sometimes you do not have 1-2 interior pics.


----------



## kanye

*Inter to leave San Siro as Moratti orders new stadium*

MILAN, 15 October 2008 - Massimo Moratti is no doubt going to be the brains behind Inter's big move. Approval of his plans for the club's very own stadium is just around the corner. After careful examination and meticulous planning, the financial backing should confirmed by the end of the year, even by early December. Then, all going well, the Nerazzurri will be pensioning off San Siro from the 2012-2013 season.

MODELS - The exact location of the new stadium is a secret Moratti is very carefully guarding, even though fingers are already pointing at the *Rho-Pero area*, very close to the motorway and with good underground connections (red line). This is where the Olympic stadium would have been erected if Milan had won its bid for the 2000 Olympics. Moratti doesn't want to build a white elephant and the fact that Milan has been named as the Expo 2015 location will help him considerably in this regard, whatever the site finally picked. The plan at Inter headquarters is to build a *60,000 seater* stadium along the lines of *Ajax's ground (Amsterdam Arena, UEFA 5-star with seating for more than 50,000) and Bayern Munich's (Allianz Arena, 5-star plus with seating for almost 70,000 spectators).* More specifically, the model Massimo Moratti's men seem to be more taken with is the Bavarian team's home ground: a multi-functional complex with restaurants (from upmarket establishments to self service eateries and traditional pubs), a shopping gallery and even a day-care centre to "park" children not that interested in the match. There are three main areas (entry depending on the ticket purchased): private business stands, VIP area and stands for the crowds.

http://english.gazzetta.it/Football/Primo_Piano/2008/10/15/sansiro.shtml


----------



## Archibald Leitch

I didn't know an English version of Gazzetta was available. Great stuff.


----------



## lpioe

I read in quite a few newspapers this week that not only Lazio but also Roma is planning a new stadium. Anyone has more infos about it?


----------



## www.sercan.de

What would happen to Olimpico?


----------



## PaulFCB

They would leave it 100% for the National Team and Cup Final taking the example of Wembley from England.


----------



## lpioe

Yeah, + concerts etc.

The source of all the news was corriere dello sport, but I can't find anything about it on their website, nor on the Roma website...
All I remember was that it will be on the outskirts of the city and it will be named after a former Roma player, so no sponser name.


----------



## Carrerra

Speaking of tear gas, many South Korean people including myself who had been students at universities in the 80s had a kind of nostalia for that. At that time, anti-government demonstrations by students happened in nearly all universities of South Korea every day. And the result? Yes, no demonstrations ever ended up with no tear bombs by the police.

Tear gases were everwhere inside the campus after a demonstration and they were immediately replaced by anothere gases because another demonstration followed right the next day. Conclusion : You could smell tear gases in university campuses all year long in the 80s! Hahaha...


----------



## (fabrizio)

Carrerra said:


> Speaking of tear gas, many South Korean people including myself who had been students at universities in the 80s had a kind of nostalia for that. At that time, anti-government demonstrations by students happened in nearly all universities of South Korea every day. And the result? Yes, no demonstrations ever ended up with no tear bombs by the police.
> 
> Tear gases were everwhere inside the campus after a demonstration and they were immediately replaced by anothere gases because another demonstration followed right the next day. Conclusion : You could smell tear gases in university campuses all year long in the 80s! Hahaha...


I admit my ignorance about unrest in South Korea, so I don't know the purposes you were demonstrating for, but I suppose it was for noble ideas. Breathing tear gases 'cause a bunch of idiots want to punch up each other just because they support two different teams of running men in underwear is quite an irritating thing, for me.


----------



## Mr.Underground

BobDaBuilder said:


> # Car industry would be salvaged because the Italian style of driving involves a lot of accidents, relying on more car production! Motor-bike riders who bravely go without helmets, die off eventually solving the problem with over population.


You make me laugh. :lol: :lol:


----------



## Nick Kaufman

BobDaBuilder said:


> Northern Europeans need to relax more. They are too uptight. The Italian way of life needs to be more widespread because the Anglo/Germanic system obviously is flawed badly. Just look at the world's situation today.
> 
> # Banking would not have been a problem, because everyone would have spent everything in the first place and not been concerned with borrowing money for houses because they still live at home with mum and dad. Just build another floor on the existing family home.
> 
> 
> Italians have the answer for all!


It's funny cause it's true!


----------



## bigbossman

any new italian stadiums on the horizon?


----------



## dacrio

bigbossman said:


> any new italian stadiums on the horizon?



in florence.

60.000 

http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/SerieA/Squadre/Fiorentina/Primo_Piano/2008/09/19/stadio.shtml
http://www.ansa.it/site/notizie/awnplus/calcio/news/2009-03-05_105340023.html


----------



## bigbossman

^^ but is it actually going ahead. From what i gather it's announced.

And one stadium other than juve is a disgrace! everyone is moving away from italy because they are letting the television ruin the game!!


----------



## Carrerra

Google translates the article dated Mar 5, 2009 like this. 

Il nuovo stadio della Fiorentina potrebbe avere una capienza di 60 mila posti

=> The new stadium of Fiorentina could have a capacity of 60 thousand jobs

*60 thousand jobs?????*


----------



## bigbossman

i found a forum, which spoke about it, and it translated it as fans. It was a juventus forum where they were complaining that 40,000 is too small, and that it should be 50,000. SOme were saying Juventus should move to bologna or the south and they'd fll 80,000 every week. I find it hard to believe that it's that hard to get to Turin from the south, if they had TV rules like we did in the UK then they'd fil the stadium because they wouldn't have the choice of watching in a bar!!


----------



## Mr.Underground

bigbossman said:


> any new italian stadiums on the horizon?


Turin is the only U/C

Then many ideas, many words but no facts.

Palermo, Cagliari, Firenze, Milan (Inter stadium), Genova (Sampdoria stadium)...ideas and words, no real facts.


----------



## Mr.Underground

Carrerra said:


> Google translates the article dated Mar 5, 2009 like this.
> 
> Il nuovo stadio della Fiorentina potrebbe avere una capienza di 60 mila posti
> 
> => The new stadium of Fiorentina could have a capacity of 60 thousand jobs
> 
> *60 thousand jobs?????*


New stadium of Fiorentina is stopped until to next election next june.

There is a problem in the location (Castello) where the stadium was thought in project phase.


----------



## bigbossman

Mr.Underground said:


> Turin is the only U/C
> 
> Then many ideas, many words but no facts.
> 
> Palermo, Cagliari, Firenze, Milan (Inter stadium), Genova (Sampdoria stadium)...ideas and words, no real facts.


UEFA should force them, the champions league wouldn't miss italian clubs just like the european cup didn't miss english clubs. If you don't sort out your stadiums then no europe!!


Ideas are what is keeping pompey from capitalising, ideas need to be put in practice ASAP!


----------



## www.sercan.de

Problem is that the clubs do not own the stadiums.


----------



## bigbossman

^^ thats not a problem. If the clubs were really serious that wouldn't stop them. The clubs are money making something for nothing enterprises and that is wrong on so many levels!


----------



## Mr.Underground

bigbossman said:


> ^^ thats not a problem. If the clubs were really serious that wouldn't stop them. The clubs are money making something for nothing enterprises and that is wrong on so many levels!


Infact, you 're right.

The italian problem is that football societies aren't owner of their stadium is a problem if they want to renew the existent stadium, infact teams doesn't want to renew an old stadium, which the owner is the municipalit and where they pay a big rent.

But they have a lot of money, so they can built a new one, without problem.

Ok?


----------



## bigbossman

Mr.Underground said:


> Infact, you 're right.
> 
> The italian problem is that football societies aren't owner of their stadium is a problem if they want to renew the existent stadium, infact teams doesn't want to renew an old stadium, which the owner is the municipalit and where they pay a big rent.
> 
> But they have a lot of money, so they can built a new one, without problem.
> 
> Ok?


so all we have to do is force them to spend the money then, simple!


----------



## Cracovia

How about some pics from Turin


----------



## bigbossman

^^ in the juventus thread

what i think is that stadium might be the catalyst, similar to how middlesbroughs stadium was the catalyst in england. Until then Derby, sunderland etc were just going to refurbish, but when they saw the financial success...

Hopefully though clubs wont build stadiums too small for themselves if they ever do. 30,000 for palermo?? in a city of 1 million is a joke!


----------



## berkshire royal

^^
Having been to Sicily and to Palermo I can tell you that Palermo are huge. They are the Italian version of Newcastle, I was there shortly after they we're promoted and the whole city was painted Pink. Everywhere you went there were banners, flags, adverts, replica and fake shirts. That whole city and most of Sicily we're Palermo supporters, I have been all around Italy and not one team captured a cities undivided attention like Palermo. If they had a decent stadium and fans had a proper tradition of attending games I have no doubt they would be capable of getting 50,000+ on a regular basis regardless of how well they we're doing (well as long as they we're in Seria A). If I was a billionaire (I know pure fantasy) Palermo would be high up on my list of teams to buy because they have huge potential.


----------



## bigbossman

^^ Although i don't doubt Palermo's fanbase, i still will say that until Italy sorts out the television situation it won't happen. 

Why go to watch Palermo vs crap team live when it is on telly for the same price, and you don't have to leave your home. That is the mentality at the moment. Stadium and TV are interchangeable, or so i have read.

Also did you go to Naples??


----------



## Mr.Underground

bigbossman said:


> so all we have to do is force them to spend the money then, simple!


I agree with you.


----------



## Mr.Underground

berkshire royal said:


> ^^
> Having been to Sicily and to Palermo I can tell you that Palermo are huge. They are the Italian version of Newcastle, I was there shortly after they we're promoted and the whole city was painted Pink. Everywhere you went there were banners, flags, adverts, replica and fake shirts. That whole city and most of Sicily we're Palermo supporters, I have been all around Italy and not one team captured a cities undivided attention like Palermo. If they had a decent stadium and fans had a proper tradition of attending games I have no doubt they would be capable of getting 50,000+ on a regular basis regardless of how well they we're doing (well as long as they we're in Seria A). If I was a billionaire (I know pure fantasy) Palermo would be high up on my list of teams to buy because they have huge potential.


Yes, fan of Palermo are famouse for their passion...they 're medditerranian :lol:
But your vision of Palermo and its supporter is correct. Yes, but Zamparini, owner of Palermo, is thinking to realize a stadium not biggest than Renzo Barbera, but with 30.000 seats


----------



## BobDaBuilder

The reality in Italy and the rest of the world is that matchday attendances will only get smaller as people can dial up any match on pay-per-view or through the internet.

The days of building 60k stadia are finished.

Really is it that bad a thing? You might not get 50 or 60k there on matchdays, but you get 20 or 30 million watching matches live worldwide, particularly in Italy. I watch Italian matches late on Sunday nights over the internet as I doze off to sleep in my bed on a laptop.

It is nice to attend the stadium, but TV is getting to the point where I think it is almost better. Especially with HD widescreen.

The stadium experience is expensive(how much does is cost for a glass of beer for instance?), time consuming and when your team is being beaten a thoroughly painful time. The big thing too is you are far more informed and knowledgable on the game for watching it on the box. You get this myopic view when you attend games blinded by your one-eyed-ness for your own team. 

It opens your eyes. And another thing, the FIFA rule on no tv replays in stadiums is ridiculous. That needs to be changed. As a far you pay good money to go and you don't see all the angles.


----------



## www.sercan.de

Some years ago Adriano Galliani said "here in Schalke they sell 30,000 l / match. At the San Siro you can't get a glas of water"


----------



## BobDaBuilder

^^^^^^^^^^

I remember placing a newspaper on my seat at San Siro because the seats were disgustingly filthy. Don't think they ever clean the place.

They need to have guys walking around the crowd with 'kegs on legs' selling beer and food. They are losing a lot of income.

They should get an outsider from Australia or America to become the club's GM to teach the Italians, how to do it better!


----------



## bigbossman

BobDaBuilder said:


> The reality in Italy and the rest of the world is that matchday attendances will only get smaller as people can dial up any match on pay-per-view or through the internet.


Thats why in England we ban the televising of saturday games, so people go to matches



> The days of building 60k stadia are finished.


In your world maybe, but everywhere else they are still being built.



> Really is it that bad a thing?


Yes 



> You might not get 50 or 60k there on matchdays, but you get 20 or 30 million watching matches live worldwide, particularly in Italy.


Yeah but that's not what the game is about.



> I watch Italian matches late on Sunday nights over the internet as I doze off to sleep in my bed on a laptop.


Thats you in oz, 1000s of miles away from the action



> It is nice to attend the stadium, but TV is getting to the point where I think it is almost better. Especially with HD widescreen.


WTF, are you serious. Nothing will ever beat going to a game. The experience is unrivalled. Watching it on telly is for neutrals, people who can't get to the game and people with no real passion. It is no coincidence that for big games and big teams there are waiting lists of 10s of 1000s because every football fan realises that live is the shit, not televised, even with HD no one would swap that for live football. 



> The stadium experience is expensive(how much does is cost for a glass of beer for instance?),


That's a problem of the modern game which needs to be addressed, but since when has expense been a major factor.



> time consuming and when your team is being beaten a thoroughly painful time.


real fans stick it out and make time, everything you are coming up with sounds like excuses for yourself.



> The big thing too is you are far more informed and knowledgable on the game for watching it on the box. You get this myopic view when you attend games blinded by your one-eyed-ness for your own team.


and there is nothing at all wrong with that. You watch your local team live, then when they aren't playing or are away you can watch other teams on telly or watch the highlights later that evening. 



> It opens your eyes. And another thing, the FIFA rule on no tv replays in stadiums is ridiculous. That needs to be changed. As a far you pay good money to go and you don't see all the angles.


Who cares if you don't see replays live in the stadium, are you sure you're a football fan??


----------



## bigbossman

BobDaBuilder said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> I remember placing a newspaper on my seat at San Siro because the seats were disgustingly filthy. Don't think they ever clean the place.
> 
> They need to have guys walking around the crowd with 'kegs on legs' selling beer and food. They are losing a lot of income.
> 
> They should get an outsider from Australia or America to become the club's GM to teach the Italians, how to do it better!


Football doesn't need to shift that far to attract the weaker willed person to the stadium. Germany and England have proved this.


----------



## BobDaBuilder

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You can get away with selling shit product and disenfranchise people in places like England and Germany because they have MASSIVE populations crammed into small areas. So there are lines of suckers to follow the current pissed off ones.

In sparsely populated countries you have to supply a great experience and real value or people won't be back. I wouldn't pay 50 quid a throw to regularly attend EPL matches for instance. You'd have to be a real thickie to pay that. They will get a big backlash sooner or later. Particularly for leagues that are non-contests with the results practically predetermined.

It isn't about the fan in Europe, trust me on that. I have seen it from both sides of the world. It is too elitist over there. But I suppose you must get used to that in all walks of life. The way it is for the serfdom.


----------



## bigbossman

BobDaBuilder said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> You can get away with selling shit product and disenfranchise people in places like England and Germany because they have MASSIVE populations crammed into small areas. So there are lines of suckers to follow the current pissed off ones.


Italy isn't a sparsely populated country though, Italy has just saccumbed to TV more than anywhere else. 



> In sparsely populated countries you have to supply a great experience and real value or people won't be back. I wouldn't pay 50 quid a throw to regularly attend EPL matches for instance. You'd have to be a real thickie to pay that. They will get a big backlash sooner or later. Particularly for leagues that are non-contests with the results practically predetermined.


It's what i steadily maintain, the football fan isn't about entertainment, they are about competitiveness. No one wants to see the best team in the world shit on a league. They want to see a load of good teams, giving each other good close games every week. 

The backlash will come not for a while though... the only way to prevent is to bring back terracing but the powers that be wont listen. 



> It isn't about the fan in Europe, trust me on that. I have seen it from both sides of the world. It is too elitist over there. But I suppose you must get used to that in all walks of life. The way it is for the serfdom.


Yeah, the working man is out of touch with the game they built. And it's a working man they can thank for it jean-marc bosman. He's created this game, him, Murdoch and berlusconi!


----------



## BobDaBuilder

The Italian mentality and priorities are different to the British/German. They watch the matches on tv and stay and make love to their British or German mistresses whose boyfriends are at a football match! But they keep an eye on the television showing the football of course, so they know when they need to make their escape.

This is the Italian way!

p.s. to keep it topical, well done Inter to maintain it's 7 point gap on Juventus. After winning the 17th championship this season it is on course at the end of the 2011/12 season that Inter will achieve a second star on the shirt. Maybe at the end of the next decade will it surpass Juventus with 3 stars.


----------



## likasz

I want to ask you about Palasport Olimpico capacity.According to wikipedia its capacity is 12,350 seats (for ice hockey I guess), but according to Eurocup F8 site - http://www.eurocupbasketball.com/item/45930 - its basketball capacity is only 6880 seats.Which statement is true?


----------



## dreaad

^^ the first is the maximum. but it depends on the specific event (e.g concerts or sport events). the available seats can be changed


----------



## likasz

^^But I've found other wiki's article
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_hockey_at_the_2006_Winter_Olympics_match_stats_(men) - where you can find that the biggest attendance at Winter Olympic Games 2006 was more than 9000 so basketball capacity should be atleast 9000!

PS.I know that wiki is not a good source (if it is a source) but I've confirmed this numbers at other websites like this http://www.boston.com/sports/other_sports/olympics/articles/2006/02/27/swedes_set_standard/


----------



## Axelferis

BobDaBuilder said:


> The Italian mentality and priorities are different to the British/German. They watch the matches on tv and stay and make love to their British or German mistresses whose boyfriends are at a football match! But they keep an eye on the television showing the football of course, so they know when they need to make their escape.
> 
> This is the Italian way!
> 
> p.s. to keep it topical, well done Inter to maintain it's 7 point gap on Juventus. After winning the 17th championship this season it is on course at the end of the 2011/12 season that Inter will achieve a second star on the shirt. Maybe at the end of the next decade will it surpass Juventus with 3 stars.


 what th f*** ??!!!


----------



## bumdingo

BobDaBuilder said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> 
> 
> They need to have guys walking around the crowd with 'kegs on legs' selling beer and food. They are losing a lot of income.
> 
> Italian's can't handle their beer


----------



## BobDaBuilder

If they don't serve beer, I guess they can save the need of having toilets.


----------



## bigbossman

^^ i disagree with that

Fiorentina, verona, bologna and cagliari aren't. They were being filled as recently as 10 years ago.

Milan have filled the san siro week in week out before, and inter have come close, Roma when they won the scudetto averaged 67,000 but for there final game it said the crowd was 60,000 when it clearly wasn't as the stadium was rammed and fans were spilling onto the pitch.

Like i said it's television, having all games available live kills the need to go to matches at the stadium especially ones not against marquee opposition.


----------



## bigbossman

?? i don't get your point, you changed the subject...


----------



## Duck Manson

parcdesprinces said:


> OK, but take a look at the average attendances of serie A for 2008/2009 :Anyway it's not only due to live games on TV (I saw audiences and they aren't so big). The main reasons, IMO, are the very dilapidated state of stadiums and security troubles, that's why people (especially families) stay at home.


It was pretty much the same stadia 15 years ago. A little wear and tear isn't gonna stop someone from going to the game. But when you have a stressless, 50 inch tv and cold beer two feet from you it's not easy to get sold on going to games any more.


----------



## parcdesprinces

Duck Manson said:


> A little wear and tear isn't gonna stop someone from going to the game.


I'm not so sure !

For many stadiums in Italy it's more than "a little wear and tear", this is the same problem with the Stade Vélodrome in Marseille (rebuilt in 1998) and most of stadiums in Italy have useless athletics tracks. 

hno:










Stadio San Paolo









Stadio Sant'Elia









Siena









Catania









Palermo









Even Stadio San Filippo, which is new, looks old...


----------



## Axelferis

after pics shown here i realize how SAD are italian stadiums... 
something must be done for it..


----------



## salaverryo

Stadio Sant'Elia has got an inner stadium built inside the outer stadium! Shows how stupid & useless athletic tracks are in soccer stadiums. And if I'm not mistaken this stadium was built for Italia '90. What a waste!


----------



## weird

Livno80101 said:


> i dont like this at all, in basketball arena court is too far away from stands, and roof is too high, if there is video-cube, it will look bad


Yep, if they want to install a cube-screen would look ugly. But, the stands don't look bad, because they can fulfill the gap with vip seats, the benches, etc.

The design is good imho.


----------



## RealVooDoo

Ni3lS said:


> Innovative design. What's the tower like in the whole plan? What use, residential?


As far as I know university office



Fizmo1337 said:


> expensive for what it actually is, a basketballfield (can probably be changed to *badminton* or whatever)


is that a sport? :lol:


----------



## Maxximus

Ni3lS said:


> Innovative design. What's the tower like in the whole plan? What use, residential?


The City of Sport belongs to the University of Rome, the tower will be the location of the university rector, while the buildings around the park, are the residences for students or athletes.

Circus Maximum of Ancient Rome


----------



## radioheader

This project looks like the 'Esplanada dos Ministérios' in Brasilia... :lol:


----------



## piraB4L

Beautiful !!

How much will be the capacity of the arena for basketball ?


----------



## RealVooDoo

^^
Should be 15.000 seats


----------



## lukaszek89

Bologna is propably the only city where basketball is more popular than football...


----------



## Mr.Underground

lukaszek89 said:


> Bologna is propably the only city where basketball is more popular than football...


Maybe Siena, Pesaro and Treviso too.


----------



## John Rambo

Will it be use by Virtus, Fortitudo, or both teams?


----------



## Jim856796

That's great, kid. A city park right on top of a indoor arena, very compelling. If you were to see something like that on Google Earth, you can't even tell it is really a sports arena.


----------



## Fab87

John Rambo said:


> Will it be use by Virtus, Fortitudo, or both teams?


Fortitudo...they really need to replace the old "Paladozza", a small and ugly Arena...
Virtus plays at "Futurshow station" (capacity: currently 8k, will be expanded to 11k soon):


----------



## Jasonjas

The "Parco Delle Stelle" (park of the Stars) is a plan that difficultly will be completed.

The Owner of Fortitudo Basketball launched that plan almost 2 years ago, and the only thing that up to now has shown is these designs and a stupid advertising campaign, no projects, no permissions, only words to mask a difficult financial situation and the team's very bad results (degraded in italian 2nd league altough great ambitions).

Otherwise Bologna don't need another arena, because the city has already an important, beautiful, modern and efficient arena (Futurshow station), that will be soon expanded (from 8000 to 11000 seats), with large possibilities and spaces to expand it again, and because the public of Fortitudo difficultly catches up 5000 spectators, so another big arena with 15.000 seats is considered useless because Bologna is a big town but not so big as the major european cities, and it's true that here in my city basket is more considered that football (also this then is not thus true, basket capture many spectators but however much less of soccer) but it's impossible to fill up two great arenas!

Greetings from Bologna

Really sorry for my english... I like this forum because i like so much stadiums and arenas, I'll try to improve to participate!



Fab87 said:


> Fortitudo...they really need to replace the old "Paladozza", a small and *ugly* Arena...


Sorry, but that's not true: the exterior of Paladozza is ugly, but inside, Paladozza is Fantastic, with a superb acustic; it's really a little jewel.

Fortitudo and Virtus (because Paladozza once was Virtus home) fans really love it.


----------



## Fab87

I was talkin' about the exterior, inside it's not bad, you're right...I wouldn't say fantastic, but not bad at all, if compared with the average italian arenas..."Historic" place, anyway!


----------



## Maxximus

*TURIN - Palanuoto (Isozaki)*

Designer: Arata Isozaki
Status: under construction
End of activities: 2009 










The structure is part of a large area dedicated to sport, in the renewed framework for military training: the Palasport Olimpico (two steps), the Olympic Stadium and the newly renovated pool "Stadium."


Torino will return soon to have a place to practice swimming and water polo at the highest level. A structure suitable for hosting of international events.
The pool is located near the Olympic stadium, which Arup has Archa designed by Arata Isozaki.

Deleted the old "Olympic" to make room for PalaOlimpico, will be the area upon which stood the football-Combi-Callegaris Brand to host the future Palace of swimming.

The building comprises two 50 m pools: an Olympic size with seating for 1200 spectators seats, one for training and a basement car park on two levels with 210 parking spaces.

The building is on via Philadelphia as a simple volume clad in stainless steel panels and a huge glass wall 6 meters high and protected by a roof.
The coverage area of approximately 3300 sqm with dimensions of 64.80 m in width and 50 m in depth, is composed of a single frame and steel mesh surface with slabs shaped modular aluminum properly insulated.
The new PalaNuoto will be characterized by advanced techniques, and the choice to break with the traditional format of pool place closed to the outside, through the use of large areas of external glazing. The single-sided via Philadelphia to measure over 380 square meters in total, continues to a height of 5.5 meters.
The building has a cover with a bump of 16, but North, with steel structure and facade structural glass rod. The pools have a system for ozone treatment which allows an effective antibacterial treatment.











*STATUS*


----------



## Maxximus

*Formula 1 - Gran Premio di Roma*















British blow as Bernie Ecclestone eyes Rome
Caroline Reid and Christian Sylt
02.06.09

A Formula One race through the streets of Rome has come a step closer to reality, increasing fears that it could shunt the stricken British Grand Prix off the sport's calendar.

The possibility of an F1 race in the Italian capital has been speculated about for months with feasibility studies believed to have been carried out. Giving weight to this speculation, Standard Sport has learned that F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone has applied for a pan-European trademark for the title 'Formula 1 Gran Premio di Roma'.

It is the first time since the 1980s the name of a city has been included in the title of a Grand Prix and the Rome race will accompany the Italian Grand Prix in Monza on F1's calendar. The trademark application was filed last month and is a crucial step in staging the event.

It is believed that the race will be run on a 4.6-kilometre circuit through the streets of the financial district south-west of the ancient heart of Rome. The area is ideal to host a Grand Prix as its streets were widened to accommodate heavy traffic in the 1940s.

Holding an F1 race in Rome was the dream of the late Enzo Ferrari, founder of the eponymous car company and the inaugural Rome race is expected to be held in 2011, 23 years after his death. Its inclusion in F1 increases the likelihood Britain will lose its Grand Prix.

The race in this country is due to move from Silverstone to Donington next year but this is now in question after a key financial backer reportedly pulled out of the project leaving a hole in its £100million budget.


----------



## northern italian

Some updates about new italian basketball arenas

Biella Arena (6,000 s)
Biella






Futurshow Station 
Bologna
The Malaguti Arena of Bologna is under renovation works; the capacity should boost up from 8.600 to 10-11.000 























































Actual


----------



## likasz

Guys, maybe so pics from the CL final match at Stadio Olimpico.


----------



## Andrew_za

That does not look good


----------



## northern italian

Andrew_za said:


> That does not look good


What ?


----------



## northern italian

New 7.300 seats arena for Cantù (north of Milan)

http://europaconcorsi.com/projects/92361-Nuovo-Palazzetto-dello-Sport-a-Cant-/images

Approved and ready for 2010


----------



## girgenti

Capital78 said:


> Very poor in comparison with Turkey!


From the stadia point of view maybe.

But from the infrastructure/accomodation point of view it's the opposite situation.

Also you need to consider the unique athmosphere that a tournment in Italy can have.

Italians love football, history says we have the second best team in the world (4 world cup) and the best in europe.

Recently we showed the world we are able to manage big events both during the Pope's dead (when millions of people came to Rome from all over the world and in a few days) and during the Turin winter olympic games.

Our health system is the second best in the world (after France 0_o) and the civil defence (despite newspapers say during those days) is the best in the world (when there was the tsunami in the south east of Asia first planes with help arrive from Italy, sent by Protezione Civile).

We are currently undertaking a leading role in keeping peace and order all around the world (not just inside our country), for example in the Balcanian area and in Lebano.

Is Turkey able to offer the same organization?

I wonder if uefa wants to take the risk after euro 2012.

This competition is not just about stadia, there is a lot of work to do behind the game.

We are able to do it, France is too, but we can do it with passion.

If you have a look on facebook, there are some group created by people who still remember the 1990 world cup and its athmosphere.

I have a positive feeling, we can bring back a Big tournment in Italy!


----------



## Sagaris

Bad selection of stadiums. No way around that. 

I'm really glad about the metro expansion in Roma (especially the B1 to Viale Libia), but that really doesn't boost this bid.


----------



## NemanjaR.

Does anyone have pictures of new Roma stadium Franco Sensi?
And Inter new stadium.

Sorry, I have not reviewed all, my computer is slow lately.


----------



## makkillottu

www.sercan.de said:


> what does karalis mean?
> sounds greek


Karalis is the ancient name of Cagliari. 

(euro 2016 version of the project, with minor changes to the original)









(original project)


----------



## Andre_idol

I think you can find renders of Roma´s stadium in the porposed stadiums section 
About Inter...don´t know...never saw any render yet.


----------



## Kuvvaci

I think Italy must bid for a basketball world championship or Eurobasket. Both for rising up the basketball in Italy again and to have new venues wich Italy needs for now.


----------



## www.sercan.de

NemanjaR. said:


> Does anyone have pictures of new Roma stadium Franco Sensi?
> And Inter new stadium.
> 
> Sorry, I have not reviewed all, my computer is slow lately.


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=969334


----------



## 1772

^^ Like it alot!


----------



## Kuvvaci

reminds me of Greek style..


----------



## romano89

new juventus's stadium that will be ready next year


----------



## romano89

edit


----------



## 1772

Juve stadiums is going along fine! 
To bad that it is way outside of town.


----------



## Kuvvaci

wonderful video of Juve's stadium. It is reaslly wonderful. Capacity could be more, but they saved place for the louges more.


----------



## NemanjaR.

^^ Thanks.


----------



## groby46

Stadio San Paolo ( 60.240 ----> 63.250 )

The project

http://www.manicaarchitecture.com/manicanews/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/2016-Italy-Article.pdf


----------



## fizicki neradnik

If I had to pick between Italy and Turkey i would pick Italy also. Security and Transportation systems are a lot better in Italy, but expected larger stadiums. Italian league is in top 5 in Europe, there shouldn't be any stadium with only 30 000 seats.


----------



## Zorba

No Genoa in the bid? Why not?

btw, nice stadium for Napoli. Very nice design...


----------



## eagle in sky

The stadium's capacities are lower than France and our.
Why Italy prefer to renovating the old stadiums instead of building new stadiums(Germany) ?
Artemio Franchi,Tardini have expired especially.


----------



## dacrio

eagle in sky said:


> The stadium's capacities are lower than France and our.
> Why Italy prefer to renovating the old stadiums instead of building new stadiums(Germany) ?
> Artemio Franchi,Tardini have expired especially.


because there are no reasons to waste money...


----------



## rtbedm

France is going to win this one. After the issues with Ukraine/Poland im sure they want to be in a country that has the infrastructure and venues in place.

Italy has the infrastructure - however they have an inept and corrupt leader in berlusconni - why any event would be awarded to a country with a clown for a leader is beyond me.


----------



## HenMDev

nice.


----------



## kriziami

Verona’s stadium goes photovoltaic!!! the dome of Verona’s Bentegodi Stadium has become the largest photovoltaic sports complex roof in Italy, and one of the largest in Europe.

what do you think about?

LivegreenBlog


----------



## Hansadyret

rtbedm said:


> why should i be banned. i'm speaking my mind, not calling anyone names or being rude.
> 
> Italy has a sexist, corrupt criminal for a leader. Anyone who doesnt see that must be blind. I only need to go through any news site and post link after link of stories about this moron to prove my point.


:lol:

I like Berlusconi a little bit. He's so "politically incorrect" and leftist media across Europe will take any chance to blast him. And he owns one of the biggest and best football clubs in the world.


----------



## Mo Rush

On topic please.

Thanks.


----------



## fizicki neradnik

Napoli stadium looks great from the inside, the best one presented. Why is Juventus new stadium has such low cap. considering their importance in Serie A and CL?


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

fizicki neradnik said:


> Napoli stadium looks great from the inside, the best one presented. Why is Juventus new stadium has such low cap. considering their importance in Serie A and CL?


Because they don't need bigger one? Their attendance is very low.


----------



## fizicki neradnik

^^ Thank you Captain Obvious! Stadium is not build for the next 5 or 10 year but for much longer time period. If Barcelona is planing to expand Camp Nou o 110 000, and other mayor European clubs are planing stadiums for 80 000, shouldn't Juventus have at least 60 000 cap?


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

fizicki neradnik said:


> ^^ Thank you Captain Obvious! Stadium is not build for the next 5 or 10 year but for much longer time period. If Barcelona is planing to expand Camp Nou o 110 000, and other mayor European clubs are planing stadiums for 80 000, shouldn't Juventus have at least 60 000 cap?


Because they already had a 60k stadium? Why on earth would they build one again when they will never fill it? Club exist for 113 years and trust me that they won't suddenly gain some new fans over night...


----------



## Jim856796

romano89 said:


>


The original intended project for the final expansion of the San Siro stadium is for 15 entrance towers around the stadium, and the 3rd tier is extended to the east. We are not going to lose a single entrance tower to a worthless deviation from its intended design. It was left unfinished because of that white elephant Hippodrome to the east. Also, i need to know what the Italian text says when it is translated to English.


----------



## se12

cool stadium.


----------



## groby46

Juventus will not make a 60.000 k stadium because it has always had an average audience of less than 50,000 k


----------



## Jim856796

^^So no UEFA Elite Stadium for Torino, Juventus will have a Category 4 Stadium without ever expanding to exactly 50K?


----------



## www.sercan.de

Elite stadiums just need at least 30k


----------



## se12

1772 said:


> ^^ Like it alot!


The stadium is nice, Yes.


----------



## Jim856796

Delete regrettable post.


----------



## parcdesprinces

^^ :nono: :nono:

According to the *"UEFA Stadium Infrastructure Regulations"* :









In addition of that, still in terms of capacity, a stadium must have (net cap.) : 
50,000 seats minimum for the Europa League final and a minimum of 60,000 seats for the Champions League final (but preferably at least 70,000 seats).


And about the UEFA Euro, here are the requirements in terms of capacity (extracted from the *"UEFA European Championship, Tournament Requirements"*) :


----------



## A-Homes

www.sercan.de said:


> Elite stadiums just need at least 30k


Is it necessary . . . ?


----------



## pawel19-87

*TRIESTE - Stadio Nereo Rocco (32,454)*









*U.S. Triestina Calcio*



















http://www.flickr.com/photos/ste2479/3611833103/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/ste2479/3611817183/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3522034938/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/ste2479/3611857181/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/ste2479/3611760053/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3522033658/









http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3522036360/


----------



## crazyalex

Nice stadium kay:


----------



## www.sercan.de

mini san siro


----------



## mlm

I've loved this stadium since the first time I saw it some years ago. Thanks for posting. kay:

It would be even better with new seats, something a bit more colorfull maybe.


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

-----


----------



## northern italian

List of italian basketball teams in A1 league, with the actual and the new arenas

*Montepaschi Siena* - Palasport Mens Sana 6.000 (new arena 11.000, approved)
*Armani Milan* - Mediolanum Forum 11.200
*Pepsi Caserta* - PalaMaggiò 6.387 
*NGC Cantù* - Palasport Pianella 3.910 (new Cantù Arena 7.000 u/c)
*Virtus Bologna* - Futurshow Station 8.600 (increase to 10.500 u/c)
*Lottomatica Rome* - Lottomatica Arena 10.500 
*Sigma Montegranaro* - PalaSavelli 3.800 
*Lauretana Biella* - Biella Forum 5.007 
*Benetton Treviso* - PalaVerde 5.154
*Air Avellino* - PalaDelMauro 5.100 
*Scavolini Pesaro* - Adriatic Arena 10.323 
*Banca Tercas Teramo* - PalaScapriano 3.500
*Cimberio Varese* - Whirlpool Arena 5.300 
*Vanoli Cremona* - PalaRadi 3.527 
*Enel Brindisi* - PalaPentassuglia 3.500 (new arena 5.000 approved)
New team from Lega2 (the Final serie is still running)


----------



## northern italian

The Tor Vergata arena of Rome (u/c)


----------



## DimitriB

Any news of thenew olympic swimming pool in Turin?


----------



## Vagrant

Nice.


----------



## Mr.Underground

New stadium of Cagliari, Sardinia (23,600)




























The works should start at the beginning of next year and has to finish 1 year later. 
The location of new stadium will be 300 m. from the runway of Cagliari airport (Elmas=


----------



## Luis87

romano89 said:


> new juventus's stadium that will be ready next year


How is it going actually?


----------



## Mr.Underground

^^


----------



## Andre_idol

Are there some new renders for Cagliari stadium? Looks good!


----------



## Mr.Underground

Andre_idol said:


> Are there some new renders for Cagliari stadium? Looks good!


It has 2 problems.

1. The capacity (23600)
2. The location, 300 m from the runway of airport. 

There is a big discuss on italian thread abuot these points.


----------



## MS20

Mr.Underground said:


> It has 2 problems.
> 
> 1. The capacity (23600)
> 2. The location, 300 m from the runway of airport.
> 
> There is a big discuss on italian thread abuot these points.


What's the issue? Too big or too small? I just had a look at their average attendance, and 23,000 seems fine; its higher than what they've averaged in the past 5 years, but it allows enough space for growth in attendances.


----------



## Mr.Underground

MS20 said:


> What's the issue? Too big or too small? I just had a look at their average attendance, and 23,000 seems fine; its higher than what they've averaged in the past 5 years, but it allows enough space for growth in attendances.


It's too small. Cagliari will be cut off in case of Euro or WC, for this reason in Cagliari asked 30.000.

In Mainz are realizing a stadium with 33,500 seats, in Cluj 30,500, in Lvov 33,500, in Grozny 30,000 and go on.

For a big event UEFA ask you a stadium of 30,000.


----------



## Scba

I heard about a baseball stadium being built in Rome. Any details on it?


----------



## DimitriB

Any news of the new olympic swimming pool in Turin?


----------



## Anubis2051

*Rome Baseball Stadium*

I've read a few articles about a new baseball stadium in Rome (Italy, not the home of the Braves farm team). Has anyone seen the renders of this?

http://baseballdeworld.com/2010/02/22/rome-plans-new-baseball-stadium/
http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/sports/rome-mayor-plans-baseball-stadium/360115


----------



## sweet-d

Haven't heard of it but if it's for the Olympics why would they need a baseball stadium baseball is no longer in the Olympics. But any way it could be a good plan.


----------



## ElvisBC

it would be as logical as building flying hill in the middle of sahara


----------



## VPSI

*CAGLIARI - Karalis Arena (23,000)*









*Cagliari Calcio*

1x Campionato di Serie A: 1970

1x Coppa Italia di Serie C/Lega Pro: 1989

http://www.cagliaricalcio.net/home.html

http://it-it.facebook.com/pages/Kar...ena-Cagliari-Calcio/109592549063584?sk=photos


----------



## KingmanIII

nice to see at least some of these Italian clubs doing something about their stadia


----------



## Arthur Dias

*The Arena*







​


----------



## michał_

What the hell happened to this vision?










It looked a lot better...


----------



## KingmanIII

michał_;82308550 said:


> What the hell happened to this vision?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looked a lot better...


----------



## MS20

^Lol well put. 

Make it out of cardboard boxes, anything is better than whats there. Really good to see a wave of new proposals in Italy...Juve may have actually started a movement.


----------



## Fenerbahce Sk

beautiful but low-capacity stadium


----------



## DimitriB

Now Juventus has there own stadium, other Italian teams are planning or thinking of building there own stadium :

Roma - Palermo - Calgiari

Are there any other teams that plans to build there own stadium?


----------



## kerouac1848

I think Udinese and Napoli have plans. 

There is always talk about Inter but nothing concrete seems to come out.


----------



## DimitriB

What about Lazio's Stade delle Aquile ?


----------



## Axelferis

a promise...just a promise


----------



## RMB2007

Udinese's plan, I think:


----------



## SoroushPersepolisi

kerouac1848 said:


> I think Udinese and Napoli have plans.
> 
> There is always talk about Inter but nothing concrete seems to come out.


i hope inter stays in san siro


----------



## DimitriB

Who stay at San Siro, I think depends of the question :

- which team has the money to build a new stadium or buy San Siro
- which team necessarily need a new stadium (maybe both)
?
That's my idea, but I can be wrong or...

For the rest of Italy, I hope teams build there own stadiums or buy the stadium they play now and renovate.
Italy need this for there own future !


----------



## MS20

Inter could have built a stadium 3 times over with the amount of money they throw on transfers and wages. They are not a club that is run prudently. And both Inter and AC need new stadiums so they can have autonomy in how its run, and drastically increase matchday revenue. Not to mention, the San Siro is far too big for these clubs. Its not the 1970's anymore. 50-60,000 is adequate. 

No serious world power in football should be renting anymore. It's time for the big clubs in Italy to modernize.


----------



## SoroushPersepolisi

are most stadiums in italy state owned?


----------



## carnifex2005

SoroushPersepolisi said:


> are most stadiums in italy state owned?


Almost all of them are. Mostly because of World Cup '90. For Italy to become a top three league again, the clubs will have to build and operate their own stadiums.


----------



## MS20

SoroushPersepolisi said:


> are most stadiums in italy state owned?


Yep. Outside of Juve now, all of them are I think. Clubs have no incentive to contribute to improve stadia as long as they don't own the stadium. And councils sure as hell won't care about refurbishing. That's why infrastructure is in such a sorry state in Italy.


----------



## kerouac1848

> Inter could have built a stadium 3 times over with the amount of money they throw on transfers and wages. They are not a club that is run prudently. And both Inter and AC need new stadiums so they can have autonomy in how its run, and drastically increase matchday revenue. Not to mention, the San Siro is far too big for these clubs. Its not the 1970's anymore. 50-60,000 is adequate.


Both Milan and Inter have averaged over 60k more than once in the past 10 years, and Inter were pushing 70k just 12 years ago. Crowds were on a general decline until about 2006; there has been a modest up swing since so we could be witnessing a new trend.

That being said I agree, a 55-60k ground is fine for the immediate period, but they should make potential expansion easy like Juve have. The San Siro could be reduced just by an internal renovation giving larger Wembley-sized seats as they still have those crappy ones (despite getting a larger lower tier the Maracana isn't having its capacity increased, in fact I think it is losing between 1-3k seats)


----------



## SoroushPersepolisi

carnifex2005 said:


> Almost all of them are. Mostly because of World Cup '90. For Italy to become a top three league again, the clubs will have to build and operate their own stadiums.





MS20 said:


> Yep. Outside of Juve now, all of them are I think. Clubs have no incentive to contribute to improve stadia as long as they don't own the stadium. And councils sure as hell won't care about refurbishing. That's why infrastructure is in such a sorry state in Italy.


i knew many were state owned but not that many

we have the same crap in iran, and aside that, most of our clubs are owned by the regime! :bash:


----------



## repin

*Torino , Juventus Arena*


----------



## RMB2007

First time I've seen this concept:


----------



## Axelferis

bad concept not covering everybody :lol:


----------



## MS20

kerouac1848 said:


> Both Milan and Inter have averaged over 60k more than once in the past 10 years, and Inter were pushing 70k just 12 years ago. Crowds were on a general decline until about 2006; there has been a modest up swing since so we could be witnessing a new trend.
> 
> That being said I agree, a 55-60k ground is fine for the immediate period, but they should make potential expansion easy like Juve have. The San Siro could be reduced just by an internal renovation giving larger Wembley-sized seats as they still have those crappy ones (despite getting a larger lower tier the Maracana isn't having its capacity increased, in fact I think it is losing between 1-3k seats)


Yeah that would be ideal. My only concern with 60k stadia for the massive European clubs would be ***** envy when they compare with others have. But as you say, leaving the option of expansion would put a rest to clubs like Inter overestimating the size of the any new stadium. 

Ever increasingly I become attracted to the idea that clubs should build stadiums that suffocate their supporter base, creating an environment where attendance is paramount and season ticket waiting lists (however esoteric and useless a measure) skyrocket. It goes against everything that supporting is for, but I think it has beneficial side effects. 

The most important sight for a football league is a full stadium I think. Doesn't matter if its 90,000 or 12,000, a full stadium impresses upon you the idea that what is happening is relevant. And there's no better way to sell a league than that - not even better quality on the pitch.


----------



## adeaide

*Juventus Arena*

































if you want to see more stadia pictures , Please visit below URL.



http://cafe.daum.net/stade/Italy_future


http://cafe.daum.net/stade/Italy


----------



## Axelferis

the zone surrounding is truly big! do they plan to build hotels & offices?


----------



## makkillottu

Mr.Underground said:


> It's too small. Cagliari will be cut off in case of Euro or WC, for this reason in Cagliari asked 30.000.
> 
> In Mainz are realizing a stadium with 33,500 seats, in Cluj 30,500, in Lvov 33,500, in Grozny 30,000 and go on.
> 
> For a big event UEFA ask you a stadium of 30,000.


That's not true. Cagliari wont be cut off in case of Euro or WC, because in 2 months of work will have a 30.000-seats stadium. It's a modular steel project *(already U/C in Rome)*.


----------



## adeaide

*inside*


----------



## adeaide

*Aerial View*


----------



## Habsman

very interesting


----------



## www.sercan.de

Canceled?


----------



## Neda Say

I like this green design inside and out! Hope they build it!


----------



## Axelferis

www.sercan.de said:


> Canceled?


i think it will! Italy economic restrictions context should down this one


----------



## FiveYears

It became Serie A stadium , again kay:


----------



## Messi98500

Nice stadium, when are caglari getting a new stadium? Nice to see the happy juve fans celebrating on it


----------



## undertaker89

Beautiful stadium, i hope it will be modernised soon.


----------



## FiveYears

I don`t think so, Triestina is quite bad lately...


----------



## Jericho-79

That is one unique-looking roof over the stands.


----------



## RMB2007

Talk regarding a new stadium for Inter:



> For inspiration of possible stadium designs the club is looking to London, more precisely the Emirates Stadium. According to newspaper Corriere dello Sport, Inter’s new stadium will have a similar look and feel as well as the same capacity of 60,000 seats.


http://www.stadiumguide.com/inter-almost-ready-to-present-new-stadium-plans/


----------



## PugliaBianconera

*CAGLIARI (Quartu Sant'Elena) - IS Arenas (16,500)*










1 Champion 
1970



















Render Unofficial:

































Old Project (Karalis Arena):









Italian Thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=567027

July 6th 2012:

















July 8th:


----------



## PugliaBianconera

July 9th:

















July 10th:









July 11th:


























July 12th:


----------



## PugliaBianconera

July 13th:


















July 15th:


----------



## Axelferis

where are the money for all those stadiums?

Lazion,Bergamo,genoa etc...? :dunno:


----------



## Fabri88

Considering the average attendance of 25.000 in Serie A I think that the AFAS Stadium of Alkmaar (17.000) can perfectly fit the needs of every "provincial" team!

That stadium costed only 38.000.000 €!


----------



## alwn

money falling from the tree :eat:


----------



## Beppe86

New Stadio Friuli, Udine

http://udinesecalcio.portals.twww.tv/video/39ecc8caa1971131ad936263d0b0e8e8.html


----------



## Fabri88

alwn said:


> money falling from the tree :eat:


They are not money falling from the tree if you open up some bars, restaurants, merchandising stores and any other kind of commercial activity.

Then the stadium can also host events and obviously someone has to pay for the rent.

Why use a stadium only once every other week? Let's use it all week long!


----------



## RMB2007

Inter Milan new stadium update:



> BREAKING NEWS: Plan To Build 66-Thousand-Seat Stadium Continues Forward, Will Cost 550 Million
> 
> On January 4, 2013 by Michael at 9:52 am
> 
> Breaking news regarding the new stadium of Inter has arrived. Massimo Moratti was in fact in Lugano, Switzerland earlier in November at the headquarters of Mabetex Group, a civil and industrial construction company owned by former President of Republic of Kosovo and now current first prime minister Behgjet Pacolli.
> 
> Confirmation of this visit can be seen on Mabetex Group’s official website where there are a lot of photos of this visit. Massimo Moratti late last year met with Afrim Pacolli, brother of the owner and here are his words about the visit:
> 
> “Massimo Moratti was with us to verify the function of our company and to also make first evaluation to create a new stadium. These are just preliminary talks and no project is under implementation. We have created bigger projects than the (current) stadium of Inter so this would not be one of our biggest projects but it is still a great opportunity.”
> 
> In short, confirmed the intention of Massimo Moratti to give Inter a new stadium of its own and considering many obstacles to find agreement with the Chinese, Moratti is just evaluating other alternatives.
> 
> There are no official dates on the approval of the project, however, Mabetex admits the hope of winning the contract. “Inter are working with this intention. My brother Behgjet, then, has a cordial relationship with Moratti and this is certainly an indication showing the group’s interest for this project,” concluded Afrim Pacolli.
> 
> Details of this project have been discussed however with the Albanian press revealing important and precise details.
> 
> *“The cost would be as much as 550 million euros as discussed by all parties involved. For the stadium? 66 thousand seats with two possible models linked to the Allianz Arena and the Emirates Stadium.”*


http://fedenerazzurra.com/2013/01/0...dium-continues-forward-will-cost-550-million/


----------



## MS20

Since I'm a fan of both Allianz and Emirates, that sounds great. 66,000 is an interesting figure. I'd still prefer to see it scaled down to 60k.


----------



## Axelferis

again where comes the money?

moratti searchs for partners.


----------



## Zouma

Axelferis said:


> again where comes the money?
> 
> moratti searchs for partners.


He was meant to be selling a percentage of the club to a Chinese railway company to raise some capital to help with the construction. Then you have various things like naming rights etc or the club could take out loans the same way Arsenal did with the Emerates. The main obstacle isn't the cost but the local authority giving them permission to build the new stadium which would naturally deny them a great revenue stream where Inter pay a fortune to rent an outdated stadium that the council spend little to maintain.


----------



## Axelferis

and what about to renovate san siro?


----------



## carnifex2005

Axelferis said:


> and what about to renovate san siro?


Why would they renovate a stadium they don't own? The city doesn't want to do it, that's why they are looking for a new stadium.


----------



## hatunash

The city will allegedly renovate the stadium in 2014 for the cl final,but Inter doesn't have to do anything with that. San Siro should be bought by Milan after Inter moves away.
That's an unofficial deal.


----------



## LucianPopa1000

How big will be Inter's new stadium?When it will be built obviously


----------



## RMB2007

^^ From the various articles I've read, it'll be between 60,000-66,000.


----------



## gincan

hatunash said:


> The city will allegedly renovate the stadium in 2014 for the cl final,but Inter doesn't have to do anything with that. San Siro should be bought by Milan after Inter moves away.
> That's an unofficial deal.


It is more like catching up with delayed running maintenance than a proper renovation, Milano will at most spend a few millions on new paint and covering up cracks in the walls. A proper renovation of San Siro would cost 200 to 300 million euros.


----------



## GreenHornet553

Can someone please explain to me why football teams like SS Lazio, Inter Milan, AS Roma, AC Milan, Palermo, and Udinese have to fight to get new stadiums while teams like Juventus, Bayern Munich, Galatasaray, and Arsenal were all able to get new stadiums with little to no hassle?


----------



## Axelferis

money! it's just question of money!

With Monti's restrictions it's just the problem of money.

Without euro2016 , france wouldn't build all those stadiums.It lacks a major competition to organize on alarge scale the renovation italia's stadiums


----------



## GreenHornet553

Axelferis said:


> money! it's just question of money!
> 
> With Monti's restrictions it's just the problem of money.
> 
> Without euro2016 , france wouldn't build all those stadiums.It lacks a major competition to organize on alarge scale the renovation italia's stadiums


But I would think a team like Lazio, Inter Milan, AC Milan, or AS Roma would have at least enough money to cover a good chunk of the cost that goes into funding a new stadium considering how successful these clubs are. Especially Inter Milan and AC Milan. Is it that the Italian government expects the team to pay the full price? Is it that the government doesn't have enough money to cover the rest of the price? Or is it because the teams have a lot of their financial resources invested into the players on their team?


----------



## RMB2007

^^ The current laws make it extremely hard for clubs to build their own stadiums. There's a law that was put together years ago in order to help clubs move forward and build their own stadiums, but it's still struggling to be passed. Basically, Italian bureaucracy at its finest.

http://forzaitalianfootball.com/2012/12/highly-anticipated-stadium-law-under-threat/


----------



## GreenHornet553

RMB2007 said:


> ^^ The current laws make it extremely hard for clubs to build their own stadiums. There's a law that was put together years ago in order to help clubs move forward and build their own stadiums, but it's still struggling to be passed. Basically, Italian bureaucracy at its finest.
> 
> http://forzaitalianfootball.com/2012/12/highly-anticipated-stadium-law-under-threat/


That's a shame.  Of all the ways you can screw someone over, bureaucratic red tape restrictions is the worst.


----------



## italiano_pellicano

renders of the new stadium of AS ROMA ?


----------



## RMB2007

> Fiorentina Agree Deal For New Stadium
> 
> *Fiorentina have clinched an agreement with Florence City Council to build a new stadium for the club in the Mercafir area of the city.*
> 
> The club have been trying to agree such a deal for over two years and have finally secured the relevant permission to go ahead with the project.
> 
> The Viola will own their own stadium and the adjoining citadel will also be under the ownership of the club and the business model is said to be along the lines of the Juventus Stadium.
> 
> *A price of €150 is being touted for the building of their new home and a non-Italian partnership will pay part of that cost.*
> 
> There will be many commercial facilities on site as well as a hotel, offices, houses and neighbourhood shops.
> 
> The City of Florence and the club will work closely in conjunction with each other for the duration of the project.
> 
> Fiorentina have played at their current home, the Artemio Franchi, since 1931.


http://forzaitalianfootball.com/2013/01/fiorentina-agree-deal-for-new-stadium/


----------



## MS20

Great news. Capacity? Shouldn't be any more than 35,000 I feel.


----------



## GreenHornet553

MS20 said:


> Great news. Capacity? Shouldn't be any more than 35,000 I feel.


Which stadium?


----------



## MS20

GreenHornet553 said:


> Which stadium?


Fiorentina.


----------



## Axelferis

lot of projects...

Like palermo stadium and we know what is the reality today :|


----------



## GreenHornet553

Axelferis said:


> lot of projects...
> 
> Like palermo stadium and we know what is the reality today :|


Don't be such a negative nancy, Axelferis. Anything can happen.


----------



## RMB2007

^^ Indeed. Given the nightmare that clubs have in Italy in gettin' their own stadiums, it's certainly a major plus to hear about the local council allowing the club to move forward and build their own stadium. Still a long way to go, but it's certainly a good start.


----------



## Axelferis

even if the law is voted where is money?

It is the same everywhere. i think in 10 years all the serie a will get their own grounds


----------



## Fizmo1337

RMB2007 said:


> http://forzaitalianfootball.com/2013/01/fiorentina-agree-deal-for-new-stadium/





> A price of €150 is being touted for the building of their new home and a non-Italian partnership will pay part of that cost.


Only 150 euro? Even I can pay that!


----------



## Zouma

Axelferis said:


> even if the law is voted where is money?
> 
> It is the same everywhere. i think in* 10 years* all the serie a will get their own grounds


Way too optimistic I'm afraid. It look Juve the best part of a decade to buy the Delle Alphi site and get their plans for the new stadium approved. 

Things are certainly heading in the right direction with Juve showing it's possible for clubs to own their grounds, Udinese starting work on developing their one, Cagliari moving out and Fiorentina and Roma's plans being approved, but it'll probably be nearer 20 years before the majority of Serie A sides are playing in their own stadia.


----------



## Zouma

GreenHornet553 said:


> But I would think a team like Lazio, Inter Milan, AC Milan, or AS Roma would have at least enough money to cover a good chunk of the cost that goes into funding a new stadium considering how successful these clubs are. Especially Inter Milan and AC Milan. Is it that the Italian government expects the team to pay the full price? Is it that the government doesn't have enough money to cover the rest of the price? Or is it because the teams have a lot of their financial resources invested into the players on their team?


The government, either central or local won't pay a cent towards new grounds. The current situation means they receive millions of euros a year from the clubs renting outdated stadia from them. As a bonus, any improvements to the grounds are often paid for by the clubs, an exceptions to this being the Olimipico being updated for the 2009 CL final.

As RMB2007 mentioned the stadia law is being postponed till it expires because the local authorities are skint and don't want to loose a valuable revenue stream.

As for the teams, their skint as well. Inter and Milan are still operating at crippling losses year on year, hence Milan's firesale in the summer and Inter flogging all their high earning treble winners and the whole Sneijder contract situation. Neither Berlusconi or Moratti appears to have anything like the capital required to finance a new stadium and unlike Arsenal, they don't have an old one to sell off. Both seem to be partly funding their stadium plans with money from China.

I'm not sure about Roma but Lazio don't have the money either. Lotito has a site but because of a flooding risk he's not been able to get permission to build anything there. Recently he's been spending millions buying up Lazio's media archive and the old Cirio building, though he looks to be trying to flip that for a profit.


----------



## GreenHornet553

Zouma said:


> The government, either central or local won't pay a cent towards new grounds. The current situation means they receive millions of euros a year from the clubs renting outdated stadia from them. As a bonus, any improvements to the grounds are often paid for by the clubs, an exceptions to this being the Olimipico being updated for the 2009 CL final.
> 
> As RMB2007 mentioned the stadia law is being postponed till it expires because the local authorities are skint and don't want to loose a valuable revenue stream.
> 
> As for the teams, their skint as well. Inter and Milan are still operating at crippling losses year on year, hence Milan's firesale in the summer and Inter flogging all their high earning treble winners and the whole Sneijder contract situation. Neither Berlusconi or Moratti appears to have anything like the capital required to finance a new stadium and unlike Arsenal, they don't have an old one to sell off. Both seem to be partly funding their stadium plans with money from China.
> 
> I'm not sure about Roma but Lazio don't have the money either. Lotito has a site but because of a flooding risk he's not been able to get permission to build anything there. Recently he's been spending millions buying up Lazio's media archive and the old Cirio building, though he looks to be trying to flip that for a profit.


So to sum it all up, governments own the stadiums and the clubs don't have enough money to either renovate the ground or to build a new one. Well that blows.


----------



## GreenHornet553

@RMB2007

How can it only cost 150 euros to build a new stadium for Fiorentina?


----------



## Fizmo1337

GreenHornet553 said:


> So to sum it all up, governments own the stadiums and the clubs don't have enough money to either renovate the ground or to build a new one. Well that blows.


The problem in football is that almost all of the money generated by the clubs go to buying players and giving hem higher salaries in order to keep them or to get other top players playing for them.


----------



## MS20

GreenHornet553 said:


> @RMB2007
> 
> How can it only cost 150 euros to build a new stadium for Fiorentina?


150 million. Even if he forgot to write the "m", does it really need to be pointed out?


----------



## Zouma

Fizmo1337 said:


> The problem in football is that almost all of the money generated by the clubs go to buying players and giving hem higher salaries in order to keep them or to get other top players playing for them.


Pretty much, the big clubs still have huge debts to service from the glory days of the 90's and early 00's and they have to try and keep up with clubs from England, Spain and Germany on the pitch. The crumbling stadia don't bring in a lot of money and with every Serie A game available on tv most fans don't bother turning up every fortnight so their pretty reliant on tv income. So as you said, there's little left over for stadium development and they can't even follow Arsenal's model as they don't have an old ground on valuable land to sell.


----------



## Axelferis

one problem is that italians club want to follow emirates example but emirates has cost 600 million € !
How can lazio,inter,milan can afford such expenses when you know that they are emptying all the big wages of their teams.

Galliani said that the _"time when better fuoriclasse were playing in serie A with big transferts money transactions is over"_

I seriously doubt that even 3 new stadiums will be built in the next 6 years :|

people should understand that monti 's restrictions cause a lower demand in economy.

Euro is not saved forever and situation like Nou mestalla in valencia spain could appear in italy if things go too quickly.


----------



## robbery4774

Many projects seems to start in italy. But i don't trust most of them... 

Galliani has a big mouth, in fact he was part of the spending cray policies in the past.
Last season Milan had on of the highest wage cost of all football clubs, although most of the Milan were average (in comparison to former Milan squads)

The quote from Galiani from Axelferis makes me laugh. Galiani again is wrong. Bundesliga overtook Seria A, because Bundesliga clubs operated economically without making debts. So most of the Seria A clubs were greedy, megalomaniac and payed legs instead of investing in "stone" 
And many stadiums in 1. and 2. Bundesliga were build before or after worldcup without any WC-game. Most of the clubs, who got stadiums for the WC would have built anyway, because there was a real demand for it besides that Leipzig stadium.

So it is good to see Seria A club changed their mentality, stopped overpay player and invest in infrastructure. So I'm sure Seria A will stay in front ligue 1. Yes they get new stadiums, but french hardly have that passion for footie like the italien and ligue 1 is simply crap besides PSG in these days


----------



## GreenHornet553

MS20 said:


> 150 million. Even if he forgot to write the "m", does it really need to be pointed out?


:lol: my bad. I read that wrong.


----------



## IThomas

ChristianPaper said:


> MILAN, NEW STADIUM: as announced yesterday, Milan have made ​​an official offer for the purchase of the land area EXPO to build a modern stadium property. The offer is € 300 million, according to the first rumors of the capacity will be 55,000 up to 60,000 people in the first case in more than 5000 places dell'Anfield Road (Liverpool) and 5000 fewer seats dell'Etihad Stadium (Manchester City ) and Emirates Stadium (Arsenal). Just at the Emirates Stadium should inspire the inside of the stadium, divided into 3 rings with 1 very close to the field in the English style.


Italian press speak of 60,000 sets, on an area of 120,000 sqm. A temple of sports and entertainment. True project is under design. And in every case (maybe) it will be similar to Allianz arena in Munich, according rumors of last weeks.



ChristianPaper said:


> Near the stadium would be built also the restaurants, the Museum of Milan and several stores.


Museum, official store and restaurant will be inaugurate already in May


----------



## RMB2007

> *Serie A - Catania buy land for new ground
> 
> Catania have reported that president Antonino Pulvirenti has closed a deal to buy a plot of land specifically for the development of a new stadium.
> *
> “The President of Catania Calcio Antonino Pulvirenti has this morning signed at a notary office in Catania the deed for the purchase of the land on which will be the new stadium for Calcio Catania,” read the club’s statement released on Thursday.
> 
> “The site, approximately 50 acres, is located in the Catania district of Jungetto, on the western outskirts of the city.
> 
> “The club has already commissioned studio engineer Emanuele Stancanelli to prepare a final project to be submitted to the municipality of Catania by December 31, 2014, in full compliance with the provisions of the law regarding stadium regulations.”


https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...poCICA&usg=AFQjCNHN9kdJPXgaJs5gkZzVZgLZdeAPQA

The dump they currently play at:


----------



## IThomas

Some data about AC Milan new stadium

* Stadium could be built in the east area of Expo 2015 site
* According to urban planning rules, max index to build it = about 489,000 sqm. 
* Area of stadium with other mixed use (shopping, entertainment...) = 12 hectares
* Seats = max 60,000 (prevision)
* Total area of thematic park (including the stadium) = 44 hectars

Other areas to replan:
* Perhaps realization of green park
* Perhaps creating more sports facilities
* Maintain some Expo 2015 pavilions and spaces for other activities (surely Italy pavilion, Lake arena, open air theatre, zero pavilion, expo centre, children park, mediterranean hill)











ilsole24ore


----------



## Zouma

RMB2007 said:


> https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...poCICA&usg=AFQjCNHN9kdJPXgaJs5gkZzVZgLZdeAPQA
> 
> The dump they currently play at:


That's a pretty old photo, the sections are a lot more faded these days! The little covered section in the bottom right houses the away fans, in addition to the roof there are fences and nets to ensure nothing and nobody gets in that shouldn't - lovely. 

It'll be interesting to see what they come up with, hopefully they don't get carried away and build a 30k ground Catania will never fill.


----------



## RMB2007

20-22,000 with the ability to easily expand to 30-32,000 something that Catania should be seeking?


----------



## IThomas

About Catania Calcio, here the new football company's sport center village. It's located in Catania metro area, on Etna volcano slopes.






The sport center village host:
- 4 football fields with bleachers (2 with natural grass and 2 with artificial grass) 
- 10 changing rooms (2 for the first team, 7 for youth teams, 1 for referees) 
- Medicine Sports Center 
- Fitness center with locker rooms 
- Spa 
- 2 Swimming pools with locker rooms 
- 3 Gyms (2 for athletes) with locker rooms 
- Catania shop point 
- 2 Meeting rooms 
- 2 Relaxation rooms 
- 3 Study rooms 
- Calcio Catania HQ (management, offices, press and conference room...) 
- Restaurant areas 
- Accommodation and suites for the first and youth teams
- Kitchens, canteens, etc. 
- Underground parking beneath the fields reserved for athletes 
- 10,000 sqm of outdoor car park for public with trees
- 50,000 sqm of green park with life-paths

More info old stadium en - it


----------



## makkillottu

^^

Their sporting center is really awesome! Well done, brilliant job!


----------



## IThomas

*Milan Expo site to become sports center after 2015*

*The governor of Lombardy this week asked the head of the Italian National Olympic Committee (CONI) to propose a special sports enclave for the site of Milan Expo 2015*, (...) "I asked Malagò for a hand. He should tell us what facilities CONI would like to have, and we will then find the resources. For this good project, we will find them," Maroni said. *"I would like for the sports citadel to become not only an Italian point of excellence, but also a European one," Maroni added. Malagò already has in mind a new generation, Olympic-sized swimming pool and an indoor sports arena.* "You don't need a rocket scientist to understand that Milan needs a new generation Olympic swimming pool, which it doesn't have today," Malagò said at the margins of the conference.* "And then a sports palace is also needed," Malagò continued, adding that the arena would help reinforce sports traditions in Milan like ice-skating, and could support efforts like "Armani's adventure in basketball".* Italian fashion designer Giorgio Armani has owned and helmed Milan's Olimpia pro-basketball team since he took control of it in the 2008-2009 period. *Malagò floated the idea of building a multi-sport arena that could host professional soccer matches as well, given interest expressed by one of Milan's two professional football teams, A.C. Milan. Malagò said such a move could also benefit other sports like volleyball and hockey.* (...)


----------



## IThomas

New AS Roma - Colosseum Stadium! more *here*


----------



## Aquilani

@acmilan
Here's an image of how Casa Milan will look like, starting from may 2014. We wait for you!










http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/Serie...bara-berlusconi-sede-stadio-80363324136.shtml


----------



## GunnerJacket

So, to sum up what's happening with major football clubs then:

- Catania is securing land for a new stadium
- Udinese is renovating their ground
- Milan hope to move onto the Expo site
- Roma have announced plans for a new stadium

What else is known for sure (or reasonably assumed)?

If Milan move will Inter renovate the San Siro?


----------



## Pedro EM

Haven't heard anything about Lazio's new ground either and what are clubs like Inter and Fiorentina going to do?


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Napoli have reportedly agreed on a deal with the local authorities but we don't know if it stands and what it consists of.


----------



## Pedro EM

alexandru.mircea said:


> Napoli have reportedly agreed on a deal with the local authorities but we don't know if it stands and what it consists of.


 Well virtually all the venues in Italy at least need renovation they are way out of date.


----------



## IThomas

*AC Milan Seek Foreign Investors*

AC Milan could be open to investors from the Middle East as well as Russia, according to reports in Italy. Rossoneri director Barbara Berlusconi recently admitted that the team, which has previously refused any influx of foreign funds will be looking to find interested parties as they look to revamp the club and proceed forward with plans to construct a new stadium. As per the Corriere della Sera, the bids for between 20 and 30 percent of shares in the club would probably come from Russia and the UAE, both regions where individuals have expressed interest in becoming involved financially.

The newspaper also claims that president Silvio Berlusconi’s impending visit to the UAE in the upcoming week to begin discussions regarding Milan’s sponsorship deal with Fly Emirates could also include meetings with interested parties looking to acquire shares in the club. Additionally, Russia is mentioned as another likely source due to the former Prime Minister’s political connections. Natural gas conglomerate Gazprom is being mooted as a possible financial contributor, as they are also sponsors of several teams including Schalke and Chelsea as well as own Russian Premier League outfit Zenit St. Petersburg.


----------



## IThomas

GunnerJacket said:


> So, to sum up what's happening with major football clubs then:
> 
> - Catania is securing land for a new stadium
> - Udinese is renovating their ground
> - Milan hope to move onto the Expo site
> - Roma have announced plans for a new stadium


You forgot other teams  between them, in a big city, the new stadium of US Palermo. 



GunnerJacket said:


> If Milan move will Inter renovate the San Siro?


Yeah, at least according to rumors. Btw San Siro surely will be new Inter home


----------



## GunnerJacket

IThomas said:


> You forgot other teams  between them, in a big city, the new stadium of US Palermo.


I didn't know of any others, which is why I asked. Thanks for the info about Palermo.


----------



## darrenstrutt

Palermo's new stadium looks pretty decent. 35k capacity.



















http://www.stadiumguide.com/stadiodipalermo/


----------



## IThomas

^^
This is just an old render  If Palermo will build its stadium surely will be something of different

***

A new partner, a new property stadium, and perhaps, the listing in Milan Stock Exchange. AC Milan could soon be the protagonist of a historic breakthrough. Executive Chief Barbara Berlusconi said: "We are considering to sell 20-30% of Milan". Among the candidates, there is definitely 'Fly Emirates', the airline company of Dubai, was the main sponsor of AC Milan with a stake of 12-15 million euros. To become a partner, Berlusconi family needs between 150 and 180 million, a figure that the Arabs would be willing to invest only in relation to the construction of a new stadium. And if they not reach an agreement with 'Fly Emirates', Milan had already prepared the alternative 'Etihad', which these days is defining the entrance into Alitalia.

source


----------



## IThomas

*"Six new stadiums in Serie B League, in the next three years" Abodi said*

Next schedule of Serie B will be compiled in a special way: in addition to the days compilation, the League will also promote a parallel timetable including distances, the boards of the towns, routes of natural beauty and landscape -related events, the typical wine and food, monuments, museums, theaters, accommodation facilities .

"B Italia" is an initiative by President of the League Andrea Abodi , in collaboration with ANCI, presented today in Siena: "Our league is always open workshop because we are on the side of people. We don't want anymore a comparison with other European countries, we want to go back to being what football was, and to offer something extra.

The Serie B League wants to play an active and positive role. Also taking advantage of the new law approved by Parliament, about new stadiums, Abodi claims to have an ambitious agenda: "We aim to build six new stadiums in the next three years, for a total of about 100 thousand people. I hope Siena can be part of it."


----------



## IThomas

NEW AC MILAN HQ

90852759​


----------



## MikkelAndersen

Napoli seems to renovate San Paople rather than building a new stadium. Does anyone know if they will buy the stadium? If they renovate the stadium they should take away 13-14 seats on the top level and replace them with where the running tracks are and lower the playing field with 7-8 meters. The lowest seats should be no more than 10 meters away from the playing field and 1-2 meters above. The seats behind the goal no more than 15 meters away. But even better - build a new 55.000 stadium.


----------



## MikkelAndersen

http://stadiumvibe.com/stadio-san-paolo/stadio-san-paolo-10/


----------



## RMB2007

> *An American consortium are reportedly interested in buying Cagliari and their Italian representative Luca Silvestrone has met with the mayor of the city Massimo Zedda to discuss the construction of a new stadium.*
> 
> The investors wants to build a new arena and a sporting center in Sant’Elia, the area where the Sardinian club currently reside.
> 
> *The US group, whose name has not yet been revealed, will not proceed with the purchase of the club unless their project is approved by the local council, Italian news agency Ansa reports.*
> 
> Cagliari were put up for sale for when Massimo Cellino started his takeover of Leeds United.
> 
> In the past two years, Cagliari have played their home matches in three different stadiums; the Stadio Sant’Elia, Stadio Is Arenas in Quartu, and the Stadio Nereo Rocco in Trieste.
> 
> The new potential buyers want to make sure that the situation is settled before going ahead with further negotiations.


http://forzaitalianfootball.com/201...ants-to-buy-cagliari-and-build-a-new-stadium/


----------



## makkillottu

Further rumours leaked later in the evening here on local media. Seems that the company in charge of project is Rossetti (www.rossetti.com).

The project, which is reportedly of more 200 pages, needs green light for stadium issue before negotiate the takeover from Cellino (with Leeds' takeover done, he'll need more fresh cash in the UK, of course).

Here we got the first 2 new renders:


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Interesting. Would I be an investor (  ), I'd be interested in the potentially available clubs from the largest cities, which I think are Bari, Palermo and Verona (or maybe I'm wrong?).


----------



## RMB2007

Wonder who the American consortium is, 'cause it seems they've been planning this for a fair amount of time. Is the club worth that much?


----------



## makkillottu

RMB2007 said:


> Wonder who the American consortium is, 'cause it seems they've been planning this for a fair amount of time. Is the club worth that much?


Is the only high-level football team in Sardinia island, he doesn't have any debt (furthermore, got one of lowest average wages for players/management, although got more sponsors than various competitors - last one getting on-board is "MSC Cruises"), got already some good players (Ekdal plays usually with Sweden, Astori with Italy, Pinilla with Chile, then many others in U-21 and U-19 national teams) and has still a big potential in sporting and commercial/popularity terms.

Also Training center is team-owned and is fully-equipped. So, definitely has a good value...



alexandru.mircea said:


> Interesting. Would I be an investor (  ), I'd be interested in the potentially available clubs from the largest cities, which I think are Bari, Palermo and Verona (or maybe I'm wrong?).


"Greater Cagliari" is about 500k inhabitants, so is not that small and a very big part of the region supports it. Cagliari has a good "fanbase", after all.

As of Palermo, was linked to a Middle-East fund some years ago, but no deal was found at all. Also the project for their new stadium was stopped.

Now, the only good investment is in Bari, which is under administration and soon there will be an auction from just few millions Euros. Bad thing is debts and a giant Renzo Piano-designed stadium, which absolutely needs demolition and complete rebuilding.


----------



## Guest

alexandru.mircea said:


> Interesting. Would I be an investor (  ), I'd be interested in the potentially available clubs from the largest cities, which I think are Bari, Palermo and Verona (or maybe I'm wrong?).


Agree. Lazio, Fiorentina, Genoa, Sampdoria, Palermo, Catania and to a lesser extent Bari or Bologna seem like better investment options. Of course they may not be for sale. Still, a smaller club may be better suited to make more money, especially if you concentrate on youth and transfer sales of prospects.


----------



## Tony E Architecture

There is some more details about Cagliari here on this link - http://stadiumdb.com/news/2014/04/italy_new_stadium_and_ownership_change_at_cagliari - Source: StadiumDB.com


----------



## IThomas

*AC Milan's new stadium in an historic district*

A 'revolution' in Rossoneri's home about area in which will be built the new stadium. If in an a first moment, the football club wanted to realize it into the Expo area after the world event, now there is a new hypotesis: Baggio, an historic district of Milan. The whole area is owned by the State military property. Used by military troops, but abandoned by some time. Area is near the highways and is well connected thanks to the nearby subway. But to make a difference, than the previous idea, is mainly the cost. 









red line = metro
blue area = new stadium area










goal​


----------



## IThomas

AC Milan new HQ


----------



## Ladiesman020

A lot of stadiums in Italy are multi-purpose but never used for anything other than football, there's also a lot of really poor old stadiums. Frankly Italian football needs a major rebuilding program


----------



## RMB2007

> Torino are the latest Serie A side to have new Stadium plans preliminarily approved by the local council.
> 
> The Granata currently play their home matches at the Stadio Olimpico in Turin, but have been looking to move back to a new development on the site of their old Stadio Filadelfia ground.
> 
> With the relevant documentation signed, building work could be completed by May 2016, though precise details of capacity and other amenities will be officially unveiled on May 4 during the inauguration of the Fondazione Filadelfia during the commemoration of the Superga disaster.
> 
> Preliminary plans are ready and the construction will be run with Piedmont regional council, with Torino president Urbano Cairo bearing some of the cost as well.
> 
> Below are unofficial renderings of what the ‘new’ Stadio Filadelfia could look like.


http://forzaitalianfootball.com/2014/04/torino-could-have-new-stadium-by-2016/


----------



## RFSK

As far as i understand this, it will be used as a 'training Ground'. It was Torinos first stadium and always close to the fans hearts... But yea we are gonna find out in May


----------



## Kerrybai

RFSK said:


> As far as i understand this, it will be used as a 'training Ground'. It was Torinos first stadium and always close to the fans hearts... But yea we are gonna find out in May


Considering Torino average 16k fans that certainly looks too small for a stadium. Training ground makes more sense.


----------



## IThomas

Breaking News

*A new NBA-style arena will be built in Milan*

According to Gazzetta dello Sport, Giorgio Armani has great plans for Milan. The basketball team Olimpia looks to the future. EA7 and the President Proli Livio, want to create a new NBA-style arena of 13,000 seats, which should arise within a shopping center between Segrate and Linate (east of city center). The idea was born already in 2009, when Antonio Percassi, owner of the football team Atalanta, wanted to build the largest shopping center of Europe in the world fashion capital city. Then, in 2012, came into the project the Australian giant Westfield. Now the city of Milan is in step-3: involve at sponsorship level, the Armani group.


----------



## MikkelAndersen

Kerrybai said:


> Considering Torino average 16k fans that certainly looks too small for a stadium. Training ground makes more sense.


I say build two rows of 18 seats meaning 30.000 seats. Torino can easily fill between 20.000 to 25.000 each time.


----------



## franz85

Works for the new Stadio Friuli in Udine have started yesterday!

For photos, see the thread in section "Completed".


----------



## makkillottu

Cagliari stadium updates!

Probably Dan Meis involved: https://twitter.com/Meisarch/status/462387791025164288


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## MikkelAndersen

Any news on Torino's new stadium?


----------



## RMB2007

https://twitter.com/Meisarch


----------



## IThomas

*In 2019 will open AC Milan's new stadium?*

A.C. Milan works hard for the new stadium. CEO Barbara Berlusconi, has set the 2019-2020 season, as deadline for the opening of the new sports facility. As for costs, according to rumors: 300 million euro for the top secret project. Probably stadium will have about 50,0000 seats (expandable). "We are evaluating several areas in Milan, and we have shown interest also for the Expo 2015 site. We are waiting for answers, and we need to understand what are real opportunities. Once decided the place, the construction can be started" she said.​


----------



## IThomas

*Stadiums with over 30,000 seats*

Milan | San Siro / Giuseppe Meazza Stadium | 85,847
Rome | Olympic Stadium | 82,307 
Naples | San Paolo Stadium | 76,824
Bari | San Nicola Stadium | 58,270
Florence | Artemio Franchi Stadium | 47,290
Verona | Marcantonio Bentegodi Stadium | 42,160
Rome | Flaminio Stadium | 42,000 
Udine | Friuli Stadium | 41,652
Turin | Juventus Stadium | 41,000
Messina | San Filippo Stadium | 40,200
Bologna | Renato Dall'Ara Stadium | 39,279
Palermo | La Favorita / Renzo Barbera Stadium | 37,619
Salerno | Arechi Stadium | 37,245
Genoa | Marassi / Luigi Ferrari Stadium | 36,599
Lecce | Via del Mare Stadium | 36,285
Trieste | Rocco Nereo Stadium | 32,454
Padua | Euganeo Stadium | 32,420

List not include proposed stadiums


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## IThomas

News
The Executive Lounge of the 'Tribuna Arancio' can be considered another important step of the huge renovation program that Inter and Milan and the Municipality of Milan are carrying out to transform San Siro in a modern and multifunctional stadium. On the ground floor a glass wall allows spectators to enjoy the view of tha match and the stadium from a very comfortable and safety location. The open space layout of this lounge creates a very flexible space that is able to host various type of events and fulfil different kind of needs. On the match-day infact the executive becomes a huge hospitality for the spectators of the main grand stand providing a wide selection of food and beverage. During the rest of the week on the no-match days the lounge can host different kind of events from conventions, product exhibitions, press conferences and gala dinners. A group of lifts and escalators bring the people to the first floor where is located the restaurant with a spectacular glass box overlooking the pitch.


----------



## IThomas

*AC Milan new stadium: construction works in 2016, at the Expo site.*








According to a 'TuttoSport' report, AC Milan decided the area where will be built its new stadium: the Expo 2015 site (north-west Milan). In next weeks, Arexpo (the company that owns the land on which will be hosted the World Exposition), is expected to open the sale of individual lots, abandoning the original plan to sell the entire block area. The total costs of the new sport facility will amount to around 250 million euro (maybe 300). Construction works will begin before the first half of 2016. In the stadium will be possible to realize non-football events. The investment would bring in new sponsors, and participate to the construction, in exchange of "naming rights".​


----------



## IThomas

*Milan Expo looks to post-fair future*
A tender will be approved Friday to find a developer for the Milan Expo 2015 site after the close of the food-themed world fair, which runs May 1 - October 31 2015. Milan Expo 2015 is focused on food security, sustainable practices, nutrition - and dishing out the best of global culinary cultures. Organizers hope to attract 20 million visitors, so the 100-hectare site is being endowed with infrastructure to accommodate large flows of people. Local government is keen on a sports-oriented redevelopment of the site after Expo's conclusion. The company controlled by local government that owns the site, Arexpo, welcomed Serie A soccer team AC Milan's expression of interest in March to build a new stadium there. Milan currently pay the local council to use the San Siro Stadium, which they share with city rivals Inter, on match days. Lombardy Governor Roberto Maroni said in March he was also in talks with the Italian National Olympic Committee (CONI) to propose a special sports enclave for the site.

Publication of the call for bids is expected by the end of July or the beginning of August. The maximum bid expected for the site near Milan's massive Rho Pero exhibition centre is 330 million euros. ''Beyond this figure would have been unthinkable for the market,'' said Luciano Pilotti, chairman of Arexpo. Areaxpo is jointly controlled by the city of Milan, the region of Lombardy, with a 34.67% share each, and by the Fondazione Fiera di Milano - owner of Milan's exhibition centre - which has a 27.66% stake. The province of Milan owns 2%, and the city of Rho holds 1%. Pilotti said the necessary documents for the tender are ready and just awaiting a decision on the minimum bid. ''It shouldn't be very far off from the one indicated on our feasibility study,'' said Pilotti - or 313 million euros. ''(Bids) could go up to 320-330 million euros, but not over that because it would become unthinkable for the market''. Pilotti called the proposal to build a new soccer stadium for the Milan's Serie A team AC Milan ''an interesting and important hypothesis for the development of the area''.

AC Milan was the only entity to meet the Arexpo's requirements in an expression of interest for a March 2014 deadline. ''AC Milan S.p.A. has expressed an interest in the construction of a European model football stadium, with a capacity for 60,000 spectators,'' said Arexpo Managing Director Cecilia Felicetti at the time. ''We hope that the company confirms its interest,'' said Pilotti. The governor of Lombardy in March asked CONI President Giovanni Malago' to come up with a proposal for a 'sports citadel' after the world fair is dismantled. ''Today marks the first step for the post-Expo future,'' said Maroni at a conference on sports initiatives to support Milan Expo 2015 in March. Work on the future development must begin by June 30, 2016.


----------



## 1772

Italy should aim for the World Cup in 2026. It's time for Calcio to show what it can do!


----------



## ReNaHtEiM

No way Italy gets a World Cup before England and Spain.
They should bid for Euro 2024.


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## GunnerJacket

1772 said:


> Italy should aim for the World Cup in 2026. It's time for Calcio to show what it can do!


I thought they did that this year?















:banana:


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## 1772

GunnerJacket said:


> I thought they did that this year?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :banana:


ha ha ha ha


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## IThomas

ReNaHtEiM said:


> No way Italy gets a World Cup before England and Spain.
> They should bid for Euro 2024.


I not think that Italy will bid for Euro 2024, due to Olympics Games: Rome can be a candidate city. I think that we should to renovate and build new stadiums before to do that. Juventus Stadium has been inaugurated in 2011, and after new project about AS Rome stadium, eyes are focused on Milan now. 

Rossoneri will build their own multifunctional stadium. While a week ago, if I not remember wrong, I listened that probably Inter will redevelop San Siro stadium, but they not exclude the possibility to construct a new home. It depends by the costs and other factors. 

Meanwhile here a pic about new AC Milan t-shirt.


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## ReNaHtEiM

nice jersey, is it a retro logo?


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## IThomas

Some fans are 'against' Barbara Berlusconi's choice to adopt this 2nd (I think) new logo.










For comparision here what Juventus did with its logo some years ago

before









after


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## RMB2007

Any update in regards to the indoor arena and aquatics centre (designed by Calatrava) that they were building in Rome?


----------



## IThomas

Unfortunately bureaucracy (as well as strict laws and other judicial stuff), organizations and protests against the construction of large-scale project, block Italy. However, Renzi government is trying to do something even in this direction. And about that, the National President of the Architects said that Italy needs a 'revolution': we must go back to talking about great architecture and infrastructures. Create a sort of Marshall Plan to rehabilitate, improve and build new things in our cities. But to do that some renovation about directors or laws should be implemented. 

Rome is an example of how is "difficult" manage things. The capital city has several problems in terms of construction: see the continued delays of the new subway line, due to the discovery of new archaeological sites. However good speeches are to be reported as the restoration of the Colosseum (25 million euro - all private founds from Mr. Della Valle, the owner of fashion brand Tod's), or Roman Forums reorganization, to create 'the largest archaeological walk in the world, through the history'. Not to mention the new skyscrapers designed by Libeskind, and that will be built near the new stadium. For the business park there are great expectations. There are also a number of other major projects as the improvement of urban planning, the new Science City near the MAXXI Museum designed by Hadid, or the completion of the new biggest Convention Centre at the EUR district, designed by Fuksas. 

As for your question, there were serious problems: I think they're looking for investors, but I'm not sure. In meantime I can to say that a good news arriving from Turin: the city will have its sports citadel near Juventus stadium. Something like that maybe will be possible even in Milan inside the Expo 2015 site, at the end of the world event. Then 2014 is a sort of "transition year". Ten cities will enlarge their boundaries, local governments (like London or other realities) will have more decisional powers (investments, economics, infrastructures and so on...). This change come after the elimination of the provinces. We'll see.


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## RMB2007

^^ Hopefully it can be completed, 'cause it's a real shame to see it like this:



Paxromana said:


> Dal forum di Aviazionecivile.it. Postato da Flappo


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=94599465&postcount=1864


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## RMB2007

If completed:


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## ReNaHtEiM

I didn't know about that.
So is it likely that if a Rome Olympic bid succeeds we will get a new Olympic park and not a refurbished/expanded Foro Italico?


----------



## ReNaHtEiM

IThomas said:


> Some fans are 'against' Barbara Berlusconi's choice to adopt this 2nd (I think) new logo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For comparision here what Juventus did with its logo some years ago
> 
> before
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> after


If it's new it is terrible. It has nothing in common with the old logo.

When a club updates it's logo it should be an evolution not a revolution.

Just some examples of the recent years who did it right.

Roma









Chelsea









PSG


----------



## carnifex2005

I saw this post on Reddit. This is the AC Milan team from 2005...










And now a Serie A All-Star team wouldn't be able to compete with that starting 11 from AC Milan. The fall of the Serie A has been pretty fast. They need new stadia across the board pretty soon or they may become irrelevant for a very long time.


----------



## RMB2007

Please keep all posts related to Roma's new stadium in the link below. Thanks.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=969334


----------



## GunnerJacket

carnifex2005 said:


> The fall of the Serie A has been pretty fast. They need new stadia across the board pretty soon or they may become irrelevant for a very long time.


You say that likes it's a bad thing. 







Seriously, though, you're correct. I'm hoping the project in Udine will help spur other smaller clubs to do similar efforts, as I'd love to see a Serie A with other brands outside Milan and Rome doing well on the pitch and at the gate.


----------



## MikkelAndersen

GunnerJacket said:


> You say that likes it's a bad thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, though, you're correct. I'm hoping the project in Udine will help spur other smaller clubs to do similar efforts, as I'd love to see a Serie A with other brands outside Milan and Rome doing well on the pitch and at the gate.


 In 2020 Serie A will be back. 4-5 new stadiums and one or two new nouveau riche owners. Follow the example set by Juventus. They now earn 40 mill more per year. That is the difference between keeping and selling Vidal. Juventus constantly sell out in their 41.000 stadium. If Milan and Inter both had 50.000 stadiums I bet their average 40.000 in a 80.000 stadium would be a sell out instead. Same goes for Roma and probably Napoli. Lazio and Fiorentina should imitate 41.000 Juventus Stadium. The rest Udinese's new 29.000 stadium or even 20.000 just to create a full intimidating stadium atmosphere and sell another 20 per cent tickets.


----------



## 1772

IThomas said:


> *AC Milan new stadium: project is closer*
> 
> Stadium, stadium, stadium... Italians are chatting a lot during these weeks. President of Regione Lombardia Roberto Maroni, and deputy of Milan City Council Ada Lucia De Cesaris, are more cautious. The Governor, about the submission of the tender for the sale of land, points out: "Can participate even temporary groups of enterprises". AC Milan have had already submitted its interest for the construction of a stadium in a part of Expo 2015 area. The choice of Arexpo, in agreement with the Region and the City, is to sell the whole area after the Expo in one unity. On +1 mln sqm, the space for the new stadium is about 120,000 sqm. AC Milan could join in a temporary groups of companies, to exploit the land to build the stadium.
> 
> President of Regione Lombardia, has spoken about an "Olympic stadium inside a theme park". The choice of an olympic stadium, can be a heritage for the City of Milan, in the case of a possible assignment of Olympic Games in the future. Mr Maroni, at the end of the presentation, showed to reporters the masterplan: but there was just the silhouette of a stadium. In the documentation attached: "a multifuncional stadium based on european standards and on new technologies". Are indicated three stadiums to taken as example: Allianz Arena in Munich, Emitates Stadium in London, Juventus Stadium in Turin. While 44 hectars of the whole Expo area will be destinated to green spaces.


Sounds interesting. If they have moveable sections like Stade De France; then they could have an olympic stadium which is also AC Milans stadium. 



RMB2007 said:


> Still can't see Inter or Lazio getting new stadiums by then, but Roma, AC Milan and Napoli are more likely. No idea what the latest is in regards to Fiorentina. It's getting there, however, Italy still needs a major kick up the backside when it comes to stadium developments.


Yes, let's just hope they aren't booring modenr design stadiums out in the suburbs.


----------



## MikkelAndersen

1772 said:


> Sounds interesting. If they have moveable sections like Stade De France; then they could have an olympic stadium which is also AC Milans stadium.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, let's just hope they aren't booring modenr design stadiums out in the suburbs.


 Milan don't need another Stade de France but a smaller version of Allianz Arena with 50.000 to 55.000 seats.


----------



## Bossman1

MikkelAndersen said:


> In 2020 Serie A will be back. 4-5 new stadiums and one or two new nouveau riche owners. Follow the example set by Juventus. They now earn 40 mill more per year. That is the difference between keeping and selling Vidal. Juventus constantly sell out in their 41.000 stadium. If *Milan and Inter both had 50.000 stadiums I bet their average 40.000 in a 80.000 stadium would be a sell out instead*. Same goes for Roma and probably Napoli. Lazio and Fiorentina should imitate 41.000 Juventus Stadium. The rest Udinese's new 29.000 stadium or even 20.000 just to create a full intimidating stadium atmosphere and sell another 20 per cent tickets.


Is that really the problem?
I mean Real and Barcelona play in stadiums with more than 80,000 capacity and sell out. Maybe for Inter, but I don't think that's the case for AC. AC is a storied club rich in history and championships. They should have no issue consistently playing in front of 70000+ and more than 80 alot of times. I think its more to do with lack of investment in existing stadiums and keeping modernizing them, hooligan issue in Italian football, and lack of vision of the owners to market their league to keep and attract talent.

I find it utterly amazing that a 1 first world country both in soccer and economics has built only 1 new modern 4/5 star soccer stadium (juve's) in top flight in the past quarter century in an era where new stadiums are opening up everywhere every year.


----------



## GunnerJacket

Bossman1 said:


> Is that really the problem?
> I mean Real and Barcelona play in stadiums with more than 80,000 capacity and sell out. Maybe for Inter, but I don't think that's the case for AC. AC is a storied club rich in history and championships. They should have no issue consistently playing in front of 70000+ and more than 80 alot of times.


Point of order. Since 2010 Real Madrid has averaged between 69k and 74k in their 80k seat venue. Barcelona has averaged between 71k-79k in that same time frame. And in many of those cases it's believed the figure is the infamous "tickets sold" variant of attendance, as opposed to pure butts in the seats.

Bottom line, those clubs aren't selling out on a regular basis.


----------



## IThomas

1772 said:


> Sounds interesting. If they have moveable sections like Stade De France; then they could have an olympic stadium which is also AC Milans stadium.


We'll see. They want a 'diversified' area. Not only new stadium. Expo site can't become a desolated area: goal is create a new vibrant visitable center. Among proposals there was a sort of "Silicon Valley" but in a different key. Maybe a technological park. 

Btw at the end of the event, on the whole area will remain just few buildings, such as the Italian pavilion (which could become the new RAI HQ - the Italian public television - or a cultural place), the open air theater, the pavilion zero, the lake arena and technological "tree of life" (I think), along with other buildings and infrastructures. Other national pavilions will be removed. Some may be relocated in other areas of Milan, while others will return back to their countries of origin. 

About new sports plant, it should have other areas: museum, shops, and so on. And host not only sports events, but also entertainment (live music & co).



MikkelAndersen said:


> Milan don't need another Stade de France but a smaller version of Allianz Arena with 50.000 to 55.000 seats.



Today our Regional Councillor, Antonio Rossi (yah, the canoeist), said he would like in Milan a sort London Wembley 



Bossman1 said:


> Is that really the problem?
> I mean Real and Barcelona play in stadiums with more than 80,000 capacity and sell out. Maybe for Inter, but I don't think that's the case for AC. AC is a storied club rich in history and championships. They should have no issue consistently playing in front of 70000+ and more than 80 alot of times. I think its more to do with lack of investment in existing stadiums and keeping modernizing them, hooligan issue in Italian football, and lack of vision of the owners to market their league to keep and attract talent.
> 
> I find it utterly amazing that a 1 first world country both in soccer and economics has built only 1 new modern 4/5 star soccer stadium (juve's) in top flight in the past quarter century in an era where new stadiums are opening up everywhere every year.


I think AC Milan will build its new stadium together a foreign partner. For sure. To me, Berlusconi family will have an agreement with Emirates or Gazprom. While for Inter, they will give "a new life" to San Siro.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Bossman1 said:


> Is that really the problem?
> I mean Real and Barcelona play in stadiums with more than 80,000 capacity and sell out. Maybe for Inter, but I don't think that's the case for AC. AC is a storied club rich in history and championships. They should have no issue consistently playing in front of 70000+ and more than 80 alot of times. I think its more to do with lack of investment in existing stadiums and keeping modernizing them, hooligan issue in Italian football, and lack of vision of the owners to market their league to keep and attract talent.
> 
> I find it utterly amazing that a 1 first world country both in soccer and economics has built only 1 new modern 4/5 star soccer stadium (juve's) in top flight in the past quarter century in an era where new stadiums are opening up everywhere every year.


Stadiums have been built or redeveloped for the 1990 World Cup, which is still fairly recent. It is normal that there is not much new stadium investment in those cities for the next 25 years; Germany won't replace the 2006 WC stadiums either, by 2030. The problem, rather than investment in stadiums not happening since 1990, is that the 1990 stadium investment was so awfully done, resulting in outdated stadiums in less than a decade since the investment. 
My problem with Italy is not that authorities (national or local) have refrained from reinvesting so soon but, upon realizing the failure of 1990's legacy, that they tried to stop and slow down indefinitely any progress in making legislation any easier for clubs to build their own stadiums (basically because they would have then lost the tenants for their outdated stadiums). 
BTW watch a few AC Milan matches this season and you'll understand why only the hardcore fans (around 30-40k) still come to the stadium to watch them.


----------



## Kerrybai

GunnerJacket said:


> Point of order. Since 2010 Real Madrid has averaged between 69k and 74k in their 80k seat venue. Barcelona has averaged between 71k-79k in that same time frame. And in many of those cases it's believed the figure is the infamous "tickets sold" variant of attendance, as opposed to pure butts in the seats.
> 
> Bottom line, those clubs aren't selling out on a regular basis.


No it must be butts on seats. Barcelona has 86k season ticket holders so an attendance of 70k has to be tickets sold. Season ticket holders pick and choose which games to attend and even sell their tickets to the games they don't attend.


----------



## Bossman1

GunnerJacket said:


> Point of order. Since 2010 Real Madrid has averaged between 69k and 74k in their 80k seat venue. Barcelona has averaged between 71k-79k in that same time frame. And in many of those cases it's believed the figure is the infamous "tickets sold" variant of attendance, as opposed to pure butts in the seats.
> 
> Bottom line, those clubs aren't selling out on a regular basis.


Point taken, but the teams are still selling vast amount of tickets. Why else are both grounds looking to expand.
My point about AC is that going from 85K to 50K stadium will not alter their fortunes, and its to drastic of a reduction. Tapping out at 70K is enough of a reduction. This is a storied club at the end of the day.


----------



## Bossman1

alexandru.mircea said:


> BTW watch a few AC Milan matches this season and you'll understand why only the hardcore fans (around 30-40k) still come to the stadium to watch them.


Can't. Not on regular cable in my neck of the woods for a few years now.
Another reason for the demise of Serie A. They have no footprint on TV anymore in the NA market. Before kids bought AC and Juve shirts and caps galore. Not being on TV makes only hardcore fans know they even exist.


----------



## SpicyMcHaggis

Bossman1 said:


> Is that really the problem?
> I mean Real and Barcelona play in stadiums with more than 80,000 capacity and sell out. Maybe for Inter, but I don't think that's the case for AC. AC is a storied club rich in history and championships. They should have no issue consistently playing in front of 70000+ and more than 80 alot of times.


LOL what? 

Inter are hopelessly bad and they have been outdrawing Milan... well... since forever. Your theory would be nice if there wasn't for more black and blue match attending fans. Quite a lot more actually. Almost 10k in past seasons. 

Inter has been topping the Serie A attendance charts for quite a while now and if some club has the potential to fill the 70k venue on regular basis its them.

Both clubs need their own grounds.... or a shared modern ground which they actually own.


----------



## IThomas

*NEWS *
San Siro stadium in Milan, could host final match of the Champions League, in May 2016. 
On 18 September in Geneva, UEFA Executive Committee led by Michel Platini, will evaluate the bid to make the final decision.

source


----------



## GunnerJacket

alexandru.mircea said:


> Stadiums have been built or redeveloped for the 1990 World Cup, which is still fairly recent. It is normal that there is not much new stadium investment in those cities for the next 25 years...


The problem is that the nature of viewing live sports has dramatically altered since then, and the demands of stadium environments is completely different. The venues for 1990 were fine for an audience expecting athletic venues, expecting limited concession space and not looking for Wi-Fi hook ups or premium seating. It was all about clean lines and maximizing audience potential. The modern business aspects now demand maximizing the revenue potential on a per-seat basis, meaning the need for all sorts of amenities, suites and different conditions that endear fans to pay out more and to create a setting that can compete with home theater televisions.



Bossman1 said:


> Point taken, but the teams are still selling vast amount of tickets. Why else are both grounds looking to expand.


See my point above. 86k fans in general seating is great. 50k fans in more expensive seating can be more profitable. Both? Even better.



> My point about AC is that going from 85K to 50K stadium will not alter their fortunes, and its to drastic of a reduction. Tapping out at 70K is enough of a reduction. This is a storied club at the end of the day.


If they're able to draw and fill that from day one then by all means that's what they should build. However, they could also start smaller and leave room for expansion so that they ensure they don't overbuild. If they end up some 10-15k seats only used for 3-5 times per season, they'll have to ask if that added construction expense is worth the cost. 

Construction is expensive and sometimes even having a business model that justifies X number of patrons doesn't mean that figure will produce the biggest profit margin or that the club has the resources to make that large a one-time investment. So I'm not saying "No," merely pointing out that the business of sports today isn't oriented around simply getting the most butts in the seats. It's about making the most profit margin per-seat, and sometimes that's achieved at a lower capacity.


----------



## IThomas

*AC Milan-FC Inter meeting in early September*

On these days, AC Milan is working to strengthen its team but not only. After the inauguration of new HQ in Portello, the Rossoneri are ready to leave San Siro, to move into a new sports facility owned by the club, and for that reason Barbara Berlusconi, will meet General Manager of FC Inter Marco Fassone, as reported by La Gazzetta dello Sport. Barbara Berlusconi and her team are working on the project: construction is expected to begin in autumn 2015, and FC Inter wants to know real intentions of the "brothers"​​. 

The two teams, at the moment, are playing into the municipal plant. If AC Milan, as planned, will leave San Siro, FC Inter could reorganize the stadium, in a different way. FC Inter President Erick Tohir want have a confirm about San Siro. The modernization, however, must be authorized by the City of Milan. For this reason, it isn't excluded that FC Inter can convince AC Milan to continue to "living together" in the new sports facility. These are some of the keypoints they should treat during the meeting in early September 2014.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

GunnerJacket said:


> The problem is that the nature of viewing live sports has dramatically altered since then, and the demands of stadium environments is completely different. The venues for 1990 were fine for an audience expecting athletic venues, expecting limited concession space and not looking for Wi-Fi hook ups or premium seating. It was all about clean lines and maximizing audience potential. The modern business aspects now demand maximizing the revenue potential on a per-seat basis, meaning the need for all sorts of amenities, suites and different conditions that endear fans to pay out more and to create a setting that can compete with home theater televisions.


Not happy to confess the fact that most of the above is going over my head , but, if I get it right, I disagree about the 1990 WC stadiums being alright for their time. The 1982 WC stadiums in Spain had already pointed in the right direction already, with features such as rectangular lines, stands close to the pitch, steep angles etc. All those stadiums are still viable today and most of them only need upgrades instead of starting from scratch. On the other hand, the 1990 stadiums featuring tracks were failures with their own fans very early, especially the Delle Alpi.


----------



## GunnerJacket

alexandru.mircea said:


> The 1982 WC stadiums in Spain had already pointed in the right direction already, with features such as rectangular lines, stands close to the pitch, steep angles etc. All those stadiums are still viable today and most of them only need upgrades instead of starting from scratch. On the other hand, the 1990 stadiums featuring tracks were failures with their own fans very early, especially the Delle Alpi.


The athletic stadiums were certainly not ideal but at the time Italy had proven they weren't exactly a hindrance, either. Serie A was the wealthiest league after WC'90. Attendances were very strong and even gate revenues were quite high, so _at the time _no one was staying away because of the stadiums. We can look back now and understand the shortcomings but given the history and situations of that day few could've found fault with the direction Italy chose. Especially considering the nature of stadium ownership terms in Italy.


----------



## IThomas

*San Siro to become FC Inter new home* 

"Differently from Inter, AC Milan will have its property stadium soon". The confirmation comes directly from FC Inter President Erick Thohir. "For the moment, it's better to work for a redevelopment of San Siro, which will be ours, when Rossoneri will transfer to its new home".

"We are still in a phase of the study - said the Indonesian tycoon - and we have to figure out if construct our new stadium in next years. Unfortunately Italian municipalities and regions are not able to put public money for clubs of 'private owners'. I think Italy should follow US, where clubs have the full support of the local communities. But something is changing, because it seems Italian government want to speed up permits, to make easy laws and cut bureaucracy" says Thohir.

"A football team is the pride for a city, a region, a country. Now, Italian government is beginning to support projects for great stadiums. We have obtained a loan for Meazza - he concluded - that we will use to modernize the stadium and its facilities".


----------



## MikkelAndersen

MikkelAndersen said:


> I hope Roma get to build their new stadium next summer and Napoli, Inter and Milan follow their example with same size stadiums. 52.500.


To:RMB2007. Why can't I add a link to the construction of Roma stadium without you deleting it?
Last time I added some text you asked for a source!?!


----------



## RMB2007

^^



RMB2007 said:


> Please keep all posts related to Roma's new stadium in the link below. Thanks.
> 
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=969334


----------



## MikkelAndersen

RMB2007 said:


> ^^


Okay.


----------



## IThomas

*San Siro redevelopment works*










On this Sunday, during the special derby between AC Milan and FC Inter, Barbara Berlusconi and Erick Thohir will have a meeting to speak about San Siro: according to agreements, it will be the sports facility of both football teams until 2020. 

So Rossoneri and Nerazzurri have to study a new restructuring plan for the stadium, in occasion of the final match of the 2016 Champions League. It is needed an investment of 22 million euro to improve San Siro. The third ring will be revolutionized: a new service sector with bars, restaurants and shops. The capacity will be reduced from the current 80,000 to about 68,000 seats.​


----------



## RFSK

So if i am reading correct, the CL Final will have a 68000 capacity, or will it be afterward?


----------



## carnifex2005

Seems obvious that 1) both AC and Inter don't have enough money to build their own stadium or 2) the bureaucracy is far too difficult to build one in the locations they want. Staying at the San Siro any further amount of time will only be detrimental to both clubs. They better act soon or Juve and Roma will dominate both of them for the next decade in Serie A.


----------



## MikkelAndersen

carnifex2005 said:


> Seems obvious that 1) both AC and Inter don't have enough money to build their own stadium or 2) the bureaucracy is far too difficult to build one in the locations they want. Staying at the San Siro any further amount of time will only be detrimental to both clubs. They better act soon or Juve and Roma will dominate both of them for the next decade in Serie A.


The next ten years Juventus will win 7, Roma 2 and then Inter, Napoli or Milan once. Roma will benefit with their new stadium in a couple of years. Juventus went from from 10 mill revenue to 50 and now have a 12th man in their stadium. Says it all. Juventus sell out in their 41.000 stadium each time. The other four clubs need 50.000 stadiums they can sell out ASAP instead of less than half full 80.000 stadiums (with running tracks).


----------



## IThomas

RFSK said:


> So if i am reading correct, the CL Final will have a 68000 capacity, or will it be afterward?


Probably 68,000 seats, but I'm not sure.



carnifex2005 said:


> Seems obvious that 1) both AC and Inter don't have enough money to build their own stadium or 2) the bureaucracy is far too difficult to build one in the locations they want. Staying at the San Siro any further amount of time will only be detrimental to both clubs. They better act soon or Juve and Roma will dominate both of them for the next decade in Serie A.


No dude, AC Milan will build its new property stadium, and for this reason in these months Barbara Berlusconi is working hard to find a good solution. FC Inter said they have not same idea for the moment, probably they will make of San Siro their own home.

Owners of Expo 2015 site said they don't want divide the area (1.1 million sqm) in small parts, but it will be sold for the minimum price of 350 million euro. Surely if area remains unsold, they will change the plans. 

Lady B said 350 million euro are a lot of money, because AC Milan has to incur construction costs.
Land area + new stadium + other costs = about 700 million euro.

Here an old proposed masterplan idea (Expo 2015 site)









In last weeks, Barbara Berlusconi has called Mr.Catella (president of Hines Italia - the developer of new skyscrapers+urban park+etc... in Porta Nuova, Milan) to speak about a possible agreement to build the new stadium.

About San Siro, they renovate it because both are householders. San Siro needed a redevelopment by some time, and the final of Champions League 2016 is a good occasion to do it.


----------



## RMB2007

Is the local municipality putting any money towards the San Siro renovation for the 2016 Champions League final?


----------



## IThomas

No, local laws don't allow this.


----------



## MikkelAndersen

IThomas said:


> No, local laws don't allow this.


So why would the two clubs do so if they consider leaving?
Are they removing the third tier?


----------



## RMB2007

> *Emirates sponsor new Milan ground?*
> 
> *Milan sponsor Fly Emirates could help the club with construction of a new stadium, Barbara Berlusconi has indicated.*
> 
> The Rossoneri today confirmed that they have extended a sponsorship deal with the airline until 2020, with some reports claiming that the deal could be worth as much as €90m.
> 
> The Diavolo have been looking at following in the footsteps of Juventus, by building and owning their own stadium, and joint-CEO Berlusconi confirmed that Emirates - who have the naming right’s on English Premier League club Arsenal’s stadium - could help with the plans.
> 
> “For a club like Milan, stadium ownership is essential,” Berlusconi told reporters in a Press conference to announce the new sponsorship deal.
> 
> “San Siro is wonderful, but football is constantly evolving, and our goal is to one day own our own stadium.
> 
> “In Italy, however, it’s not easy, it’s still requires a lot of work.
> 
> “We are evaluating different locations, we want to continue this project and involve Emirates in the new plans.
> 
> “It would be nice to work together on a new stadium.”
> 
> Speaking at the same Press conference, Emirates Airlines CEO Tim Clark indicated that the company could be open to such a deal.
> 
> “Anything is possible,” Clark mused.
> 
> “The deal with Arsenal for their new stadium was very important for us.
> 
> “I think we’ll talk with the club and see whether there’s a chance we could bid for the contract [for the naming rights].
> 
> “It’s a topic that we’ll discuss in the future.”


www.football-italia.net/59405/emirates-sponsor-new-milan-ground


----------



## makkillottu

On SkySport24 HD they released some data about sponsorship too. From actual 12m jersey sponsorship, it's growed to 20m per season, 5 years deal. They also confirmed that Emirates eventually will "bid" to give naming rights to the new stadium.


----------



## marinski

any pics from Udinese stadium?


----------



## RMB2007

marinski said:


> any pics from Udinese stadium?


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1141573&page=17


----------



## MikkelAndersen

With new oil-money from the Emirates Milan have a chance to create a new stadium within 4-5 years, if the incompetent politicians allow it. Not only Milan but the whole of Italy need this. Then Inter could buy San Siro, tear down the third tier and put on a new roof. Both teams would benefit greatly from sold out 55.000 stadiums.

http://www.football-italia.net/59405/emirates-sponsor-new-milan-ground

http://www.espnfc.com/italian-serie...footballs-top-table-in-serie-a-by-simon-kuper


----------



## MikkelAndersen

Those that have visited the San Siro will know just how special the iconic stadium is in its own right. Having evolved over the years to satisfy new requirements, it is still undoubtedly one of the greatest of its kind across the globe.

Part of its magic and appeal can certainly still be appreciated on screens around the world, but ultimately Milan have to put sentiment to the side and move with the times which unfortunately means potentially vacating their current home.

The discussion over a new stadium has been on-going for years, but with the problematic regulations and laws in Italy it has been a frustrating process for many clubs. Nevertheless, Juventus have proven that the barriers can be broken down and others are following suit. Following Monday's press conference, it appears as though the Rossoneri's sponsorship deal with Emirates could hold the key.

Milan joint-CEO Barbara Berlusconi confirmed the extension of their agreement on Monday and although it was announced that the deal will run through to 2020, numbers were not disclosed. As ever, that didn't prevent speculation in the media with suggestions that it could be worth up to 20 million euros per year.

From a sporting perspective, that could result in increased investment in the playing squad, but looking at the bigger picture it will also help continue to build Milan as a brand and ensure that the financial state of the club is secure.

However, perhaps the most intriguing aspect of the deal was later revealed by Berlusconi to reporters. She re-emphasised the importance of stadium ownership in modern day football as the game continues to evolve, and Emirates CEO Tim Clark appeared open to discussing the topic further with a view of playing a role in that vision.

Naturally, it would involve bidding for the contract for the naming rights of the arena, but if the financial backing is there then it would ultimately make the process easier for Milan.

According to reports, Berlusconi has previously proposed the idea of developing a new 50,000-seat stadium next to Casa Milan, but inevitably there are various obstacles to overcome involving the council who already play a detrimental role in the lack of income Italian clubs receive.

Nevertheless, it is encouraging to see that Berlusconi has the vision and enthusiasm to make such proposals and she is determined to see it come to fruition. Having spent years studying the business aspects of the club, she is fully aware of the benefits that would come with owning a stadium and it is rightfully considered a priority for her.

Given the amount of red tape and unsuccessful proposals over the years, Italian clubs had arguably accepted their fate that they would continue to fall behind without their own stadia. It will still take years before things change for Milan, but it is reassuring to know that the club has someone prepared to continually bang at the door and push forward with plans until that particular dream becomes a reality.

http://www.espnfc.com/club/ac-milan...w-stadium-plan-vital-part-of-ac-milans-future


----------



## MikkelAndersen

Restructuring work on the Giuseppe Meazza Stadium, San Siro, will bring seating closer to the players and come at a cost of €8.7m.

Plans for San Siro's renovation were originally proposed in August as part of Milan and Inter's successful bid to host the 2016 Champions League Final.

The Gazzetta dello Sport today report that these proposals have had the go-ahead from the Milan municipality and will see an investment of €8.7m to restructure the internal facilities of the stadium.

The main features introduced include a shortening of the gap between the seating and the pitch, with current barriers torn down, and an integration of the players' benches with the spectator standings.

The new seating would rise alongside with the team benches, allowing for a proximity between players and supporters previously unprecedented at San Siro and that is comparable to the set-up at Juventus Stadium.

The renovation plan also includes four new sky lounges, a new museum, and the refurbishment of the restrooms. The new San Siro will be completed before the end of 2015.

This move is likely to be the last joint investment by Milan and Inter, as the Rossoneri will be working towards a property stadium from 2016.

http://www.football-italia.net/59570/san-siro-improve-fan-proximity


----------



## MikkelAndersen

Inter President Erick Thohir says Serie A must regain its ‘competitive edge’, while he discusses prospects of a new stadium.

Thohir purchased the majority share of Inter in late 2013 and has since been pursuing a new outlook for his team.

In an interview with ESPN Deportes, the Indonesian has claimed that a process of renewal is necessary not just for Inter but for Serie A as a whole, which he sees as having been resting on its laurels for too long.

“When you're at the top as number one - I mean in the League, as a business, or even just ourselves as human beings - you feel overly comfortable and you lose your competitive edge,” Thohir explained.

“If you look at Serie A from the previous years, it had the best clubs in the world, they could spend on the best players who would then join the League.

“But at the same time the clubs lacked a base that was solid and strong.”

Thohir discussed extensively the issue of a new stadium, admitting the question is crucial for his team to stay competitive.

“Juventus already have their stadium, Roma are building one of their own. Ourselves, and Milan, we must make a decision.

“But there is a reality we can't avoid - we have San Siro, that has a great history but sits in the city centre.

“So I have to understand whether we are going to renew our stadium or build a new one.

“If Milan choose to change, then of course we'd stay in San Siro.”

Thohir then turned from the matter of the stadium to more general, global issues.

“The current situation requires us to improve together, not just here at Inter, but all the clubs, the whole League.

“As globalisation rolls in we must change our mentality and vision.

“We must become competitive again, many things have to change, but the most important thing is that the Serie A fans regain their trust, because they aren't just in Italy but everywhere in the world.

“You look at matches on TV and half the places are empty. That's not right.”

Thohir, himself a media mogul, believes that technology has a significant role in improving the football experience.

“Many stadiums in other countries have wi-fi,” he said. “They are digital and people can get connected.

“There are better seats, family standings, protected areas in case something happens, because fans are fans.

“There are the more fanatic supporters, but also supporters who go watch the game with their families and just want to have fun.

“We must look out for everyone's interest.”
http://www.football-italia.net/59569/thohir-‘change-mentality-and-vision’

BUT IF MILAN CHANGE STADIUM INTER MUST BUY SAN SIRO - NOT RENTING IT. I am pretty sure the Milan town government will have no other option if Inter threatens to leave too.


----------



## GreenHornet553

Why is it so hard to get a stadium built in Italy? What is the need for all the bureaucratic red tape when it comes to construction?


----------



## RMB2007

2015 will certainly be interesting for AC Milan's new stadium:



> *Barbara Berlusconi announced Milan hope to have their new stadium completed by 2020, as plans are almost complete.
> 
> “The work on the stadium continues and the plastic model is almost ready,” CEO Berlusconi told reporters at the club’s Sponsor Day.
> 
> “We are awaiting a response in the first six months of 2015. The idea is to complete the stadium by 2020.* This is my dream for the Rossoneri fans.”
> 
> The area of the city this new stadium will be built in has not formally been chosen, but is believed to be near the new Casa Milan headquarters.
> 
> “Right now we are evaluating the area that will be fully functional for the needs of a club like ours. Even my father, who is very fond of San Siro, is enthusiastic about the project.
> 
> *“There are no financial problems with the stadium, as there are many companies interested in this project.*
> 
> “Milan Lab will be restructured and in April-May we will begin a commercial project regarding Milan Lab.”


www.football-italia.net/59602/new-milan-stadium-2020


----------



## NOMAD€

GreenHornet553 said:


> Why is it so hard to get a stadium built in Italy? What is the need for all the bureaucratic red tape when it comes to construction?


Maybe bribes, corruption..


----------



## gazzaa2

The only way you'll get new stadiums in Italy is if they get a World Cup or a Euros. Like in 90 that forces new stadiums to be built, but Italia 90 left a poor legacy for stadiums. The one stadium change since was Juve ripping up the Della Alpi.


----------



## MikkelAndersen

gazzaa2 said:


> The only way you'll get new stadiums in Italy is if they get a World Cup or a Euros. Like in 90 that forces new stadiums to be built, but Italia 90 left a poor legacy for stadiums. The one stadium change since was Juve ripping up the Della Alpi.


And soon to come Udinese. I believe Italy in five years will have 3-4 new modern stadiums.


----------



## RMB2007

Concept:
























Someone on Facebook said it was by a company vying to design the new AC Milan stadium, but their above concept failed to make the final selection process.


----------



## MikkelAndersen

Just build a small version of Alianz Arena with three tiers and 20 seats for each tier. With 2,40 meters VIP glass Windows between them and a shell like e.g. Juventus Stadium. The old proposal for the "new AS Roma" stadium would have been perfect for Milan. It was called Stadio Franco Sensi and could host 55.000.

http://www.info-stades.fr/projet/50/as-roma-stadio-franco-sensi


----------



## carnifex2005

RMB2007 said:


> Someone on Facebook said it was by a company vying to design the new AC Milan stadium, but their above concept failed to make the final selection process.


I can see why it failed to make it. It's ugly as sin. Also terribly impractical.


----------



## Gadiri

DGT architects - Velodrome Maspes Vigorelli - Milan, Italy


http://www.cmalheiros.com/


----------



## RMB2007

https://twitter.com/Milanello


----------



## RMB2007

I know recent times have been difficult for them, but 42,000 certainly seems small. Hopefully it can be easily expanded if required:



> AC Milan have outlined plans for a new all-seater venue that could be named the Emirates and be partly funded by the Serie A club's sponsors of the same name, reports said Thursday.
> 
> The proposals, according to Gazzetta dello Sport, would see the club move away from the San Siro ground they share with Inter to a site adjacent to the club's recently-built 'Casa Milan' headquarters in the neighborhood of Fiera, known for hosting some of Europe's biggest trade fairs.
> 
> If sanctioned by the Fiera Foundation -- the company which manages business proposals in the area -- work on the 42,000-capacity venue could start in 2016 and be completed by 2020.


https://sg.sports.yahoo.com/news/milan-outline-emirates-stadium-plans-report-133304713--sow.html


----------



## Picotto

As a Milan fan I just can say stupid and ridiculous but they are probably targeting serie B becuse with this politics Milan will end up playing there.


----------



## MikkelAndersen

AC Milan could be playing in a new 42,000-seater stadium by 2020 after plans to leave the San Siro reportedly moved a step closer to becoming reality.

La Gazzetta dello Sport said former trade fair grounds had been identified as a suitable site and an offer made to the current owners, Fondazione Fiera Milano, with a favourable response expected.

Fondazione Fiera Milano will announce the identity of their preferred bidder on Jan. 15 and, should all go according to plan for the club, work could begin in 2016 with the new ground -- less than a mile from their current one -- completed by 2020.

The project has been made possible by Milan's recently-agreed sponsorship agreement with Emirates, who could secure naming rights for the new venue.

AC Milan could be leaving the San Siro for a new stadium.
The current plans are for a 42,000-seat ground with the fans closer to the pitch than at the San Siro, partially modelled on the successful Juventus Stadium, which was completed in 2011.

Local construction rules mean the stadium will have to be sunk 15 metres into the ground to ensure its height does not exceed that of the surrounding tower blocks, which include Milan's new club headquarters.

Both Milan and Inter have expressed an interest in leaving the San Siro, where both are tenants, because they feel it has become unsuited to contemporary requirements.

If Milan's move goes ahead, Inter could buy and remodel the San Siro, which will stage the 2016 Champions League final.

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/italian-ser...ome-take-step-forward-as-bid-for-site-tabled?

MILAN SHOULD GO FOR A 50.000 SEATER STADIUM INSTEAD.Their average now is around 40.000 in an old stadium. 35.000 for "small" matches and sold out for minimum 1/2 of the matches. Remember Juve constantly sell out in their 41.254 stadium. If they had the chance they would probably had built a 45.000 to 48.000 stadium.


----------



## RMB2007

AC Milan's new stadium can have its own thread now, so please post any future info in the thread below:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1784424


----------



## MikkelAndersen

As Milan are building a new complex away from San Siro, Inter are reportedly due to follow suit.

The Rossoneri have already opened Casa Milan, their new club headquarters, and are developing plans for a stadium.

According to Tuttosport, Inter patron Erick Thohir has also set his sights on a new development in the old Ippodromo – the race track for horses that closed down recently.

It is close to San Siro and could host the club headquarters, training grounds and commercial areas.

Meanwhile, there are also plans to reduce the capacity of the Stadio Giuseppe Meazza to 56,000 by transforming the third tier into shopping centres.

The stadium will host the 2016 Champions League Final.

http://www.football-italia.net/59953/inter-discuss-new-infrastructure

Could be an idea. But don't build a HUGE shopping complex on top of the third tier. Not bigger than 3 meters. And bring the seats closer to the pitch like Juventus Stadium.
Inter, Roma, Napoli and Milan need 50.000-55.000 stadiums while Fiorentina and Lazio should go for 41.000 like in Turin.
The rest of the clubs should go for 20.000 to 30.000 stadiums and fill them.

This season so far:

1 AC Milan AC Milan 333.274 7 47.611 
2 AS Roma AS Roma 317.263 8 39.658 
3 Juventus Juventus 230.233 6 38.372 
4 Lazio Roma Lazio Roma 207.351 6 34.559 
5 Inter Inter 233.618 7 33.374 
6 ACF Fiorentina ACF Fiorentina 224.466 7 32.067 
7 SSC Napoli SSC Napoli 209.048 7 29.864 
8 Genoa CFC Genoa CFC 154.513 7 22.073 
9 Sampdoria Sampdoria 153.839 7 21.977 
10 Hellas Verona Hellas Verona 138.000 7 19.714 
11 Atalanta Atalanta 121.724 7 17.389 
12 AC Cesena AC Cesena 118.568 7 16.938 
13 Torino FC Torino FC 133.788 8 16.724 
14 US Palermo US Palermo 111.033 7 15.862 
15 Sassuolo Calcio Sassuolo Calcio 97.367 7 13.910 
16 Parma FC Parma FC 85.074 7 12.153 
17 Cagliari Calcio Cagliari Calcio 72.926 7 10.418 
18 Empoli FC Empoli FC 69.151 7 9.879 
19 Chievo Verona Chievo Verona 67.000 7 9.571 
20 Udinese Calcio Udinese Calcio 63.973 7 9.139 



overall

3.142.209

140

22.444


----------



## MikkelAndersen

http://www.sempreinter.com/2014/12/13/ac-milan-moved-ahead-of-us/

Hope both Inter and Milan have new stadiums in 2020.


----------



## MikkelAndersen

http://www.calcioefinanza.it/2014/1...rsenal-emirates-stadium-stadio-milan/?lang=en

Milan need a 52.000 stadium - not 42.000.


----------



## IThomas

New ACF Fiorentina stadium thread


----------



## MikkelAndersen

Fiorentina owner Andrea Della Valle says the Viola are ‘almost on the home straight’ with plans for a new stadium.

The Tuscan club are looking to develop a new 40,000-seater stadium in the city’s Mercafir area, at a cost of over €300m.

“We’re almost on the home straight,” Della Valle assured Viola Channel.

“It will take several months, but the stadium is a key step for us.

“When you see English stadiums it motivates you to pursue projects like this, because we’re still a long way behind countries like England and Germany.

“In Italy, Juventus started the process, we’re next and then I think it will be Roma’s turn.

“I hope it’s the first step in a new journey together.”

The Viola patron also discussed the club’s Europa League campaign, which will see them face English Premier League side Tottenham Hotspur in February.

“Tottenham are a team with great tradition, as are Fiorentina.

“We accept our fate, we’ll go to London to play football because we’re not afraid of anyone.

“We have a lot of respect for them, but Fiorentina love to play these types of teams, to play football and to compete.

“It will definitely be an exciting challenge.”

http://www.football-italia.net/60123/fiorentina-close-new-stadium


----------



## MikkelAndersen

Inter President Erick Thohir says the Nerazzurri are ‘working hard’ toward a new stadium.

Milan are set to leave San Siro, which is currently shared between the two clubs, but Inter’s priority is to remain in the iconic stadium, albeit with significant upgrades.

Speaking as he unveiled a new stadium for DC United, the MLS side which Thohir also owns, Inter’s President assured that a new stadium for the Beneamata is in the works.

“The approval of our new stadium bill is the culmination of a huge amount of effort, which always pays off in life and in football,” the club’s Twitter page quotes Thohir as saying.

“A new home for DC United is a victory for the club, for the city and for soccer.

“A stadium is the fans' home, a magical place that must be totally engaging and open to modern technology.

"The same goes for Inter and that's why the club is working, and will keep on working hard in order to reach that objective.”

http://www.football-italia.net/60197/inter-‘working-hard’-new-stadium

Thought Inter were staying in San Siro, removing he third tier and putting a new roof on top of it.


----------



## RMB2007

MikkelAndersen said:


> Thought Inter were staying in San Siro, removing he third tier and putting a new roof on top of it.


I added this article to the San Siro thread which says staying at the San Siro is still Inter's first option:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=119998424&postcount=781

I certainly think the San Siro could be redeveloped into a more compact stadium that provides the likes of Inter a very good source of matchday and non-matchday income. However, I guess that all depends on AC Milan's new stadium becoming a reality, and what deal Inter could then do the the local municipality.


----------



## MikkelAndersen

In the case of Bologna lower the pitch 2-3 meters and add 6-8 new seats where the running tracks are. Tear down the curves behind the goals and build new ones connected to the two existing ones and put on a new roof. Voila - a new 35.000 stadium and 20.000-25.000 people will come on each match day. In Bologna close to half a million people live with the suburbs.


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## MikkelAndersen

For those seeking to turn around a club’s finances, one of the most important tasks is to boost match-day takings, which account for 11% of total revenues in Serie A, compared with 23% in both the English Premier League and the German Bundesliga. That means improving the match-day experience. However, few Italian clubs own the stadiums they play in, and unlike in Britain and Germany, where official encouragement and incentives have led to stadiums being upgraded, Italian ones largely remain in a poor state.

There is plenty of money coming in from television: the amount that broadcasters pay to show Italian football matches is second only to that in England. However, Italian clubs are missing a few other tricks. For instance, they do not get much from renting out VIP boxes at their grounds on match days: Italian businesspeople tend to take clients to dinner or the opera; and to persuade them to start bringing them to football matches, the facilities at grounds would need to be improved. Also, unlike England’s top clubs, Italian ones have not been good at conning their fans into buying overpriced team strips.

But the tide could turn soon. Italy’s top performer is Juventus, owned by the Agnelli family, whose forebears founded Fiat. The Turin-based club opened a new, 41,000-capacity stadium in 2011; it has since more than trebled its match-day 
More than just trophy assets

The country’s largest clubs are belatedly becoming more businesslike

FOR all their fans’ passion, Italian football clubs struggle to make profits. In the 1990s Italy’s Serie A was the most glamorous and high-profile of Europe’s five main football leagues; it has since fallen, in revenue terms, from second to fourth place. In this year’s Football Money League, published on January 22nd by Deloitte, a consulting firm, three of the four Italian clubs in the worldwide top 20 dropped at least one position. However, there are signs of a turnaround in the clubs’ fortunes.

Italy’s league fell behind its peers partly because of the complacency of clubs’ owners. Tycoons treated them as trophy assets more than businesses. The clubs suffered chronic losses and corruption scandals, and their stadiums were left to decay. But Italy’s sustained economic downturn and the introduction by UEFA, European football’s governing body, of rules to stop clubs habitually spending more than they earn, have been among the main reasons why a number of clubs have changed hands. Foreign investors are trickling in.
revenues. Two other teams, Sassuolo and Udinese, have since embarked on revamping their stadiums, and AS Roma plans to build itself a new home on the outskirts of the eternal city.

Efforts are being made to earn more from foreign sources. Over the past five years the Supercoppa, the opening match of the season, has been played three times in China and once in Qatar. AS Roma, bought by a group of American investors in 2011, has since struck a ten-year kit-sponsorship deal with Nike. In 2013 Erick Thohir, an Indonesian businessman, acquired 70% of Inter Milan, bringing in a clutch of foreign executives to boost the brand globally: of Inter’s 280m fans, 60% live in Asia, including 18m in Indonesia.

Harry Philp of Portland Advisers, a consulting firm which advises on sports infrastructure, predicts that more Italian football teams could soon be welcoming foreign investors. Their expertise in running a profitable business will be as welcome as their money.


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## 1772

^^ And here is the Economist article where that text is from.  

http://www.economist.com/news/busin...-more-just-trophy-assets?fsrc=scn/tw/te/ed/pe


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## Fior

Exciting news. I agree that Udinese stadium will get at least 20,000 per game. I will go more often once its complete. 

I've been to both Rome and Napoli stadiums as well more than once and even though there is a distance from the pitch, the atmosphere is awesome. These clubs deserve new facilities.


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## IThomas

*AC Milan unveil stadium plans*


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## Picotto

48 000 capacity is better then previos 42 000 plan but my opinion it is still too small for club like Milan. Hope there will be possibility to enlarge the venue to some 55-60k.


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## IThomas

They will find another place to build new stadium. More space = more capacity.


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## mrizzo

I agree with Mikkel here, about Bolonga. They should lower the field and replace each curva. For a relatively small amount of money, they could have an ideal stadium. That would have a huge impact on the squad.


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## 1772

^^ Agreed, the classical stadiums should be renovated, not abandoned.


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## IThomas

"I'll find a foreign entrepreneur to support US Palermo" declared the owner of rosanero football club, Maurizio Zamparini, intervened in an interview with Sky Sport. He said that in last days, his Russian partners are doing important business around Italy. Probably they could be interested to build a new property stadium in the Sicily's capital city.

link


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## IThomas

After the AC Milan announcements, seems that FC Inter should be ready to buy San Siro. Thanks to great redevelopment plan, the historic stadium will change its face, becoming the Black & Blues's new home. Capacity will be reduced to 56,000/60,000.


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## IThomas

*PARMA CHOC*

Oilman Rezart Taci has sold Serie A fotball club Parma after less than two months to a northern Italian group with interests in Russia, sources said Friday. Some rumors have cited also Barilla group.

An opportunity to build a new property stadium?


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## Picotto

IThomas said:


> *PARMA CHOC*
> 
> Oilman Rezart Taci has sold Serie A fotball club Parma after less than two months to a northern Italian group with interests in Russia, sources said Friday. Some rumors have cited also Barilla group.
> 
> An opportunity to build a new property stadium?


Or they could buy and redevelop their current stadium. Tardini stadium has a potential.


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## IThomas

Updates Friuli stadium



RobiBN said:


>





franz85 said:


>


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## smolki

How redevelopment of Naples stadium will look like?


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## parcdesprinces

smolki said:


> How redevelopment of Naples stadium will look like?


I don't know if they changed their plans since then, but here was the project of a refurbished San Paolo proposed within the Italy's Euro 2016 bid (63,250 seats | 82 skyboxes):


It was/is a nice proposal IMO.




























*ManicaArchitecture.com*


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## loslurpsullasinistra

dream on


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## MikkelAndersen

IThomas said:


> After the AC Milan announcements, seems that FC Inter should be ready to buy San Siro. Thanks to great redevelopment plan, the historic stadium will change its face, becoming the Black & Blues's new home. Capacity will be reduced to 56,000/60,000.


Any links for Inter and San Siro?
A two tier stadium with seats closer to the field and a new roof would be lovely. The stadium deserves to live on.
Furthermore 55.000 seems perfect.
I like the inside of the new Milan stadium, but the outside seems like Greenpeace and some bank investors designed it. 
Too bad it does not have a 55.000 capacity. 
Juventus Stadium is perfect from the inside and outside. Only the cables in the four corners inside the stadium are a minor negative detail.


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## MikkelAndersen

parcdesprinces said:


> I don't know if they changed their plans since then, but here was the project of a refurbished San Paolo proposed within the Italy's Euro 2016 bid (63,250 seats | 82 skyboxes):
> 
> 
> It was/is a nice proposal IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ManicaArchitecture.com*


The design for the new Napoli stadium looks alright. Though a new 50.000 stadium with two tiers of 28 seats would have been just perfect. I doubt they can fill a 60.000 stadium each week. Better 45.000-48.000 people in a 50.000 stadium. Their average right now is 40.000, though I know it is in an old stadium with a poor view. And sometimes in Europe League it is much less. A stadium needs to be 70-80 percent full to have a wow factor/ 12th man.


----------



## IThomas

MikkelAndersen said:


> Any links for Inter and San Siro?
> A two tier stadium with seats closer to the field and a new roof would be lovely. The stadium deserves to live on.
> Furthermore 55.000 seems perfect.
> I like the inside of the new Milan stadium, but the outside seems like Greenpeace and some bank investors designed it.
> Too bad it does not have a 55.000 capacity.
> Juventus Stadium is perfect from the inside and outside. Only the cables in the four corners inside the stadium are a minor negative detail.


Yeah, Sports Councilor of Milan City Council, and FC Inter have had a meeting to discuss about San Siro and burocratic stuff. Black and Blues are considering if buy and redevelop whole stadium is more convenient than build a new one. 

About AC Milan, we'll have more info in next weeks. Again, I want underline that new property stadium at Portello is just a proposal. Without approbation they can't build it.


----------



## MikkelAndersen

I agree with most of your points, but believe you are too pessimistic. You talk about it being too late. It is never too late. 
You mention Juve won't benefit more from their new stadium. Not true. They build a lot around their stadium to gain more money.
http://www.espnfc.com/juventus/story/1551544/juventus-set-to-build-new-training-complex
You claim other teams don't have the need for Pogba or Vidal?
How do you know that?
I believe most teams would love them.
You say the top CL teams in Italy have to compete against midtable team from EPL. Yes, but they don't play CL. 
Italy also offer a beautiful country with lots of nice places and sunny weather. I believe a lot of South Americans value that.
See how many Argentine striker who currently play in Serie A.
Yes, EPL might pay 50 mill for a top player and Serie A can only afford 30 mill.
But I believe that e.g Mandzukic is as good as e.g. Costa who was more expensive, so it's about good trading and A Madrid did so.
Finally, if Serie A get new stadiums they can fill and new owners, I bet the TV revenue will grow a lot - maybe not like in EPL, but less can be alright too.


----------



## IThomas

Friuli Stadium




































tommy92tc


----------



## MikkelAndersen

With AC Milan planning to build their own stadium, Inter are looking into outright owning and renovating the Stadio Giuseppe Meazza.
Last week AC Milan announced that they had bid for land about 2 miles away from the San Siro (in the Portello district) in order to build their own 48,000 capacity stadium. If all goes according to plan the stadium will be ready for the 2018-2019 Serie A season.

If their bid is successful, it raises the question of what will happen to the San Siro. Inter Milan and AC Milan have shared the 80,000 capacity stadium since 1947, and the historic ground has been home to many memorable games for both teams (including the iconic Derby della Madonnina between the two sides), World Cup matches, and European Cup/Champions League Finals (with the stadium slated to host the 2015-2016 final).

This classic stadium is not without its faults though. Neither club can pull in the amount of fans able to fill the massive stadium (Inter averages around 46,611 attendance and AC 43,696). The stadium is old and in need of major renovations if it wants to continue to be considered one of the elite venues in Europe. The thing that has prevented any work from being done on the stadium is the fact that neither club actually owns the San Siro, the Milan City Council does. Both clubs pay an annual rent of 4.1 million euros for use of the arena, but more importantly, any major redevelopment work must be agreed upon (and financed) by all three parties. This has led to only minimal work being carried out since 1987, in preparation for the 1990 World Cup.

Even before the arrival of president Erick Thohir, Inter had been weighing the options between building a new stadium for itself or buying the San Siro from the Council. Now that AC has pushed forward with moving out in favor of their own new stadium, Inter are now presented with the opportunity to keep the San Siro but make it better, and more importantly make it their own. Chief Executive Michael Bolingbroke met with members of the Milan City Council to open discussions over future plans for the stadium.

The current plans look like the two clubs will continue to share the stadium and pay rent until 2018. At that time, AC will move out and the Inter will either buy the stadium or renegotiate its rent as the sole user of the venue (obviously Inter would prefer to own the stadium on its own). In terms of renovations, Thohir plans to reduce the stadium's capacity from 80,000 to 56,000 (which would still make it the largest stadium in Italy) while also redesigning the Gallery, benches, bathrooms, restaurants, and metro stop nearby the arena.

Just as AC's plans are still questionable, even if they do go through, Inter are not guaranteed an easy route to owning the Giuseppe Meazza. Negotiations with the Milan City Council will probably take a bit of time; with them losing one of their tenants in AC, the Council will be looking to keep one of their sources of revenue, if not to make the best deal possible for themselves when selling to Inter.

Regardless of the potential negotiation issues, this is a promising step for the club. Thohir has been talking about turning Inter into both more of a international business and a top club in Europe again, and owning/renovating the San Siro will be a major help for both of these goals. The renovated stadium will bring in greater appeal for sponsorship deals and co-ventures with other organizations both in Italy and throughout the world. It will also bring more fans to the San Siro, highlighted in the increase in average fans when Juventus got their own stadium back in 2011 (plus the fact that Inter will no longer be paying rent to the Milan City Council will allow them to further increase their revenue). Both Inter and AC Milan stand to benefit from these moves, so the sooner plans can be finalized and actual work gets underway, the better.

I hope Italy's four best teams will have 41.500 - 56.000 new stadiums before 2018 or 2019. 
Juventus 41.500, Milan 48.000, Roma 52.500 and hopefully Inter 56.000. Not 80.000
Will be good when competing in CL with full modern stadiums.

Hopefully Lazio, Napoli and Fiorentina build 42.000-50.000 stadiums too.
60.000-80.000 is too much in Italy.

http://inter.theoffside.com/2015/2/...-out-renovate-san-siro-stadio-giuseppe-meazza


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## Guest

San Siro renovated from 80,000 to 56,000? I like the idea, how exactly would it work?


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## MikkelAndersen

5portsF4n said:


> San Siro renovated from 80,000 to 56,000? I like the idea, how exactly would it work?


By tearing down the third tier, putting on a new roof and adding a few extra seats in the first rows to get the fans a bit closer to the pitch.


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## 1886

why they do not build a new first Tier ? this is the oldest stand in the Stadium. have they checked the security of this stand ? collapse hazard and so hno:


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## carnifex2005

IThomas said:


> *PARMA CHOC*
> 
> Oilman Rezart Taci has sold Serie A fotball club Parma after less than two months to a northern Italian group with interests in Russia, sources said Friday. Some rumors have cited also Barilla group.
> 
> An opportunity to build a new property stadium?


Or not...

_Parma’s crisis plunges the Serie A schedule into chaos, as Udinese confirm that Sunday’s game at Tardini is off.

The Ducali are in chaos as the new ownership led by Giampietro Manenti are attempting to stave off bankruptcy, but have not met deadlines for payments yet.

Coach Roberto Donadoni cancelled today's training session, and now Udinese sporting director Cristiano Giaretta confirms that the game is cancelled._

http://www.football-italia.net/62879/udinese-parma-game


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## GunnerJacket

In case the owners fail to step up could Serie A/Italian Football administer the club for at least the remainder of the season?


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## GunnerJacket

MikkelAndersen said:


> By tearing down the third tier, putting on a new roof and adding a few extra seats in the first rows to get the fans a bit closer to the pitch.


This was my instinctive thought as well, especially since the connections between the structures are limited. However, after thinking about it that may be a difficult demolition job, one that could risk damage to the remaining stadium. Especially since you'd likely retain the roof, there could be another option. Thus...



1886 said:


> why they do not build a new first Tier ? this is the oldest stand in the Stadium. have they checked the security of this stand ? collapse hazard and so hno:


My current favorite concept would be to indeed redo the first tier, including premium suites on at least 3 sides and possibly overloading one side. I would then redo the seating on tiers 2 and 3 to feature possibly wider seats and wider stairs, which would reduce capacity but not require extensive structural work. They could also revisit the lower half of the second tier, in whole or in part, for a possible makeover into more exclusive seating. 

This may not yield the level of panache as a new stadium but would arguably be the cheapest renovation with real results, I feel.


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## IThomas

News about new *US Palermo stadium*


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## iurruti24

Nice design!


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## 1772

All 5 italian teams won and advanced in the Europa League. Juventus is leading in their game against Dortmund. 

In this years ranking; Serie A is second only to La Liga. 


Did someone say italian football is dead?
Forza Calcio, Forza Italia!


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## FredPerry

1772 said:


> All 5 italian teams won and advanced in the Europa League. Juventus is leading in their game against Dortmund.
> 
> In this years ranking; Serie A is second only to La Liga.
> 
> 
> Did someone say italian football is dead?
> Forza Calcio, Forza Italia!


That's because a lot of Croatian players arrived to Italy this year.


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## IThomas

1772 said:


> Forza Italia!


:lol:


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## 1772

IThomas said:


> :lol:


That just makes it better. 

Forza Berlu! Merda communista!


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## MikkelAndersen

http://playingfor90.com/2015/02/27/renaissance-serie/

The future of Serie A might be bright - in 5 years.
That is, if the clubs are allowed to build stadiums.


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## MikkelAndersen

http://forzaitalianfootball.com/2015/02/fiorentina-stadium-process-nearing-completion/
Fiorentina and the city council look set to enter final negotiations over the construction of a new stadium.

Negotiations between the club and the city have been ongoing since 2012 as La Violla are looking to develop a new 40,000-seater stadium in the city’s Mercafir area, at a cost of over €300m.

As reported by La Nazione, the Tuscan club was told on Friday they met the requirements imposed by the city for the construction of the new stadium, with related commercial shops and hotels in Mercafir, north of the city.

Now Fiorentina will have time to present the final project that will also include the resettlement of Florence’s largest fruit and vegetable market currently present in Mercafir.

I HOPE FIORENTINA BEGIN CONSTRUCTING IN 2015 AND THE PRESENTED DRAWINGS LOOKED PERFECT.
NO MORE ITALIAN BUREAUCRACY.


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## IThomas




----------



## MikkelAndersen

IThomas said:


>


Nice map, but you mean Fiorentina 40.000 right?

I do hope the big cities build 35.000 to 55.000 stadiums before 2020. 

Napoli should abandon their old stadium and build a new 50.000 without running tracks.


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## endrity

MikkelAndersen said:


> Nice map, but you mean Fiorentina 40.000 right?
> 
> I do hope the big cities build 35.000 to 55.000 stadiums before 2020.
> 
> Napoli should abandon their old stadium and build a new 50.000 without running tracks.


Napoli wants to dig underneath the current stadium and remove the track anyways.


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## interestinglyenough

IThomas said:


> Redevelopment work at Vigorelli stadium begin in fall 2015. The historic sports facility will be another great addition near the new upcoming CityLife district



Is American football popular in Italy? That's so weird.


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## Ugo Fantozzi

interestinglyenough said:


> Is American football popular in Italy? That's so weird.


 no,absolutely.


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## IThomas

*The Renaissance of Serie A*

Just like Michelangelo and Da Vinci during Italy’s “rinascita” or the “rebirth”, Serie A has found it’s Renaissance. This is not the 14th Century A.D. Renaissance, but the 21st Century edition. Everybody has been finding ways to count out Serie A as a top league, because at one point Serie A was truly the envy of Europe where all the talent had to play. Sure, UEFA runs its five year coefficient ranking system and that saw the Bundesliga climb to the third ranked league. This resulted in Serie A’s 4th Champions League place being surrendered to Germany. This began back in 2012-2013 and frankly was always a bit controversial.

Let’s conduct a quick questionnaire to see where you stand before continuing to read this article.

- Do you believe the Bundesliga is a top three league in the world?
- Should Europa League wins and draws be equal to a Champions League wins and draw?
- Would a Borussia Monchengladbach (some can’t even pronounce it) ever have the funds to compete with Bayern Munich?
- Fair to give Borussia Monchengladbach a chance to win a Champions League crown?
- Which league has the best chance of seeing a parity of winners: Bundesliga or Serie A?

*I do not mean to pick on Borussia Monchengladbach, but they are battling at the top and so they are relevant.*

Yes, at the moment Juventus and Bayern Munich are both dominating Serie A and the Bundesliga respectively. But who has a more direct threat to see their seat at the top of the ‘Iron Throne’ threatened (couldn’t resist a Game of Thrones reference)? If you answered Juventus, then you are correct. This is not a knock on the all-time Serie A Champions and current three-time defending champions, but a compliment. Bayern Munich has found themselves in such a steady and stable financial situation that it is very unlikely they will ever need to relinquish their grip at the top. Juventus, although they have been steady financially, have also the threat of ambitious Serie A clubs making changes and drastic ones.

Serie A receives most of its criticism regarding the ancient infrastructure around the league. It is no wonder that Juventus have taken control of the league since financing their own stadium and training grounds. But just like the Renaissance saw Italy come out of the Dark Ages filled with riches of art, science, philosophy, literature, and culture so too does Serie A.

By the 2020 European Championships there will be new stadiums all throughout Italy. Teams such as: Roma, Milan, Fiorentina, Sampdoria, and Napoli will have new stadiums and training grounds. While Sassuolo already owns its Mapei Stadium. Udinese is almost done renovating their Stadio Friuli to give it a more modern feel. Cagliari has constructed a new stadium, but is waiting for the safety permits to be allowed access hopefully by next season. Inter Milan are also making it no secret they want a stadium project of their own to compete with their inner-city rivals on the quest to bridge the gap with Juventus.

Having all these stadiums will see Italy hosting more major tournaments. Stadiums will become safer for families and traveling fans to attend. Players will have English stadium atmospheres, which will translate into a better feel for the game and television product. All these privately funded stadiums will lead to increased revenues and spending for Serie A teams and when that occurs it won’t be long until all the top talent of the world chooses to go to a country with better weather than that of England or Germany. These players live certain lifestyles and most South American players have an easier time assimilating into countries that remind them of back home.

Serie A now has the most representatives in Europe still competing on Europe’s two biggest stages with six teams. It was just another blessing having Roma fall short in the Group of Death to land in the Europa League, which is a tournament they can realistically win and boost Italy’s continued rising coefficient. Germany has four teams remaining with two teams currently having their backs against the wall, Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund. Could the typical European league shift in power be taking place again? Certainly, and it’s happening right before our eyes, but don’t be surprised. This is a very normal occurrence. In fact, it is a return to the balance of powers.

All five Europa League contenders are more than capable of making a push to win the championship. All the remaining clubs have made it very clear that they will be focusing on competing both domestically and the Europa League in years past they would have scoffed at the thought of sacrificing their position in Serie A. Juventus in the mean time will look to put Borussia Dortmund to the sword and knock the Germans down even further than their Bundesliga position except in this case it will be at the expense of their morale. Heck, that might be the worst thing for a group of professional athletes to lose.

Here is the UEFA 2014-2015 Coefficient Rankings:

Spain - 14,642
Italy - 13,833
Germany - 13,571
England - 12,857
France - 10,250

Sorry for picking on you Bundesliga, but maybe I should have shifted my attention towards the Premier League. That day will come, but it is not today. Serie A must continue to focus on the Europa League because it was the very league that the Bundesliga used to capture the coveted fourth Champions League position and why not retaliate with some irony?

Majority of the highly coveted young talents in Europe are plying their trades in Italy right now. Paul Pogba, Mauro Icardi, Mateo Kovacic, Paulo Dybala, Lorenzo Insigne and Alvaro Morata are just part of a small list of the many talented youngester in Serie A. The top teams in the league today have focused on nurturing their youth and it is paying off immensely.

Let this be a lesson to the doubters that Serie A has always been capable of competing in Europe, but needed to find its humility again. It is no coincidence that some of the most coveted managers in the world are Italian. The remaining teams in Europe have taken their time to rebuild their teams and they have all been helped by the tv deals signed by Serie A the past few seasons. Additionally, there has been a boost in sponsorships and youth level focus. The night is always darkest before the dawn and six years of darkness was long enough for this proud league.


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## Kerrybai

^ The Germans won't be losing there 4th spot any time soon. The only hope for Italy is to take Englands.

http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/index.html

As you can see on that link back in 10/11 England had 18.3 to italy's 11.5

However next season 10/11 will be dropped so the gap will be much closer. Italy needs to outdo England again Next season and then they might take that spot.


----------



## MikkelAndersen

Kerrybai said:


> ^ The Germans won't be losing there 4th spot any time soon. The only hope for Italy is to take Englands.
> 
> http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/index.html
> 
> As you can see on that link back in 10/11 England had 18.3 to italy's 11.5
> 
> However next season 10/11 will be dropped so the gap will be much closer. Italy needs to outdo England again Next season and then they might take that spot.



There is no hope to regain the 4th lost CL spot anytime soon. Forget about it, though try to collect coefficient points in both EL and CL, and start focusing on new stadiums. They might earn you another 20-35 mill depending on the size of the stadium. That goes a long way to claim a larger revenue and thereby being able to compete in europe and who knows win competitions. My guess is that we have a winner of both EL and CL from Italy before 2024 if they manage to construct 5-6 new stadiums before 2020. Italian clubs must fill their stadiums at least 80 per cent. So if you have a 28.000 average - build a 35.000 seater stadium. Or build what you expect to be the average and add 20 per cent more. I know Roma, with a better stadium without running tracks, will increase their attendance. No more 60.000 plus stadiums in Italy. 20.000-55.000.


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## HB07

What if Juventus win the CL this year ?


----------



## GreenHornet553

HB07 said:


> What if Juventus win the CL this year ?


If Juve wins it will mark the first big step of Serie A's return as being among the top 3 elite leagues in Europe, in my opinion.

Hopefully one big positive result that can come out of Juventus winning is that teams in Serie A can start to keep a hold of their young big name stars like Pogba, Icardi, Morata, Kovacic, Dybala, and Pjanic within the league.


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## alexandru.mircea

Juventus in the semifinals would already be a massive achievement for Serie A, especially if coupled with similar achievements by Fiorentina and Napoli in Liga Europa, and in general for clubs with sustainable growth policies.


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## GreenHornet553

@alexandru.mircea Oh yeah, I forgot about Fiorentina and Napoli's success in the Europa League. It's a shame that Torino, Inter, & Roma (my favorite team in Serie A) didn't get better draws. Still, Italy's Serie A has had an amazing showing in the Europa League and Champions League this year. And it comes, ironically, when the teams in the English Premier League have had of the worst campaigns in the European Club tournaments in a rather long while; since no English team made it past the Round of 16 in the Champions League, and no English team made it past the round of 16 in the Europa League.


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## Kerrybai

MikkelAndersen said:


> There is no hope to regain the 4th lost CL spot anytime soon. Forget about it, though try to collect coefficient points in both EL and CL, and start focusing on new stadiums. They might earn you another 20-35 mill depending on the size of the stadium. That goes a long way to claim a larger revenue and thereby being able to compete in europe and who knows win competitions. My guess is that we have a winner of both EL and CL from Italy before 2024 if they manage to construct 5-6 new stadiums before 2020. Italian clubs must fill their stadiums at least 80 per cent. So if you have a 28.000 average - build a 35.000 seater stadium. Or build what you expect to be the average and add 20 per cent more. I know Roma, with a better stadium without running tracks, will increase their attendance. No more 60.000 plus stadiums in Italy. 20.000-55.000.


I don't understand, did you actually look at the link I gave you?

If Juve can make it far and an Italian team does well in the EL then Italy an get a lot of coefficient points this season while the 10/11 season gets relegated. 

Then Italy needs to just outdo England again next season and boom Italy takes Englands 4th spot. This is just simple mathematics.

Right now going into nest season England has 62.034 and Italy has 56.105

Italy will get more points this season as they have 3 teams left and Juve in particular will definitely win more games, Italy goes into next season on 59 points....then next season we lose the 11/12 season which England leads 15.250 to 11.357. So If England does badly again and Italy can do well then they take that 4th spot.


----------



## carnifex2005

Kerrybai said:


> I don't understand, did you actually look at the link I gave you?
> 
> If Juve can make it far and an Italian team does well in the EL then Italy an get a lot of coefficient points this season while the 10/11 season gets relegated.
> 
> Then Italy needs to just outdo England again next season and boom Italy takes Englands 4th spot. This is just simple mathematics.
> 
> Right now going into nest season England has 62.034 and Italy has 56.105
> 
> Italy will get more points this season as they have 3 teams left and Juve in particular will definitely win more games, Italy goes into next season on 59 points....then next season we lose the 11/12 season which England leads 15.250 to 11.357. So If England does badly again and Italy can do well then they take that 4th spot.


You're being extremely optimistic. The math says that the earliest Italy can pass England is the 2017/18 season and that is only if Italy continues to have these great seasons and England continues to have bad seasons like this year.


----------



## GreenHornet553

Kerrybai said:


> I don't understand, did you actually look at the link I gave you?
> 
> If Juve can make it far and an Italian team does well in the EL then Italy an get a lot of coefficient points this season while the 10/11 season gets relegated.
> 
> Then Italy needs to just outdo England again next season and boom Italy takes Englands 4th spot. This is just simple mathematics.
> 
> Right now going into nest season England has 62.034 and Italy has 56.105
> 
> Italy will get more points this season as they have 3 teams left and Juve in particular will definitely win more games, Italy goes into next season on 59 points....then next season we lose the 11/12 season which England leads 15.250 to 11.357. So If England does badly again and Italy can do well then they take that 4th spot.


This. The Barclay's Premier League can't afford (literally and figuratively) to have a poor campaign next year in European Club tournaments. The way Chelsea, Arsenal, Manchester City, and Liverpool performed in the Champions League (as well as how Liverpool (again), Everton, Tottenham, and Hull City performed in the Europa League) was abysmal; and if that kind of turn out (or worse) were to happen again next year, that would hurt the BPL tremendously. Not to mention the possibility of some elite talents that are in the league jumping ship and going over to teams that are in Serie A, La Liga, or the Bundesliga.

Hopefully the teams that enter the European Club next year from the BPL (which, from the way things look in the standings right now will be Chelsea, Man City, Arsenal, Man United, Liverpool, Southampton, and Tottenham) will do much better.


----------



## gazzaa2

Most Premier League clubs can easily afford most players in Serie A and increase their wages. 

Serie A will only get EPL rejects like Gervinho and Salah.

As a result Serie A won't be able to out perform EPL clubs in Europe over any real timeframe. One season is no measure.

Only one Italian club made the CL knockouts (3 EPL did) and it's only Juve who are particularly strong in Italy at the moment on the pitch and competitive off it.


----------



## Kerrybai

carnifex2005 said:


> You're being extremely optimistic. The math says that the earliest Italy can pass England is the 2017/18 season and that is only if Italy continues to have these great seasons and England continues to have bad seasons like this year.


Extremely ? No. Optimistic, yes. All Italy needs is one more big season next year and they can pass England. If Juve can go far and they win the Europa league it will make it very possible.


----------



## therock11

I think italians will overtake the germans not the english clubs. I know you are right that for the moment england is 4th (and starting from next season in the overall table 3rd placed). If you look at this seasons table in bundesliga, except bayern all the other teams are mid table trams that got lucky this year. Next season they will be seeded in pot 3 or 4 wich means they will have a hard job to pass the group stage. Also german clubs dont win much points in the europa league wich in the first place got them their third spot.
Meanwhile if the italian clubs want to keep pace with german spanish and english clubs, they need to act quickly on their third revenue stream the matchday revenues. They need modern stadiums 5 or 6 of them. If not this years succes will fade in 5 years.


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## Andy-i

One thing to bear in mind when discussing CL places for counties, is that the places for next years CL are based on the final rankings of the year before.

So, if Italy were to overtake Germany or England at the end of 2017/18 lets say, they will get the 4th spot for the 2019/20 CL.


----------



## RFSK

gazzaa2 said:


> Most Premier League clubs can easily afford most players in Serie A and increase their wages. Serie A will only get EPL rejects like Gervinho and Salah. As a result Serie A won't be able to out perform EPL clubs in Europe over any real timeframe. One season is no measure. Only one Italian club made the CL knockouts (3 EPL did) and it's only Juve who are particularly strong in Italy at the moment on the pitch and competitive off it.


You forgot to mention rejects like Pogba,Tevez, de Guzman, de jong and Evra to...


----------



## gazzaa2

therock11 said:


> I think italians will overtake the germans not the english clubs. I know you are right that for the moment england is 4th (and starting from next season in the overall table 3rd placed). If you look at this seasons table in bundesliga, except bayern all the other teams are mid table trams that got lucky this year. Next season they will be seeded in pot 3 or 4 wich means they will have a hard job to pass the group stage. Also german clubs dont win much points in the europa league wich in the first place got them their third spot.
> Meanwhile if the italian clubs want to keep pace with german spanish and english clubs, they need to act quickly on their third revenue stream the matchday revenues. They need modern stadiums 5 or 6 of them. If not this years succes will fade in 5 years.


4 German clubs made the CL knockouts this year compared to only Juventus in Italy. 

Leverkusen are an improving side who were unlucky against Atletico. Schalke have a lot of good young players and won at Madrid. They'll be competitive in the Europa next season if they miss out on CL. Dortmund too if they can get a Europa place via league or more realistically winning the cup. Bayern are Bayern. Wolfsburg are going well in Europa as well and will be a threat in the CL next season if they can keep their players and buy well. 

I like Serie A but it's been left behind.




RFSK said:


> You forgot to mention rejects like Pogba,Tevez, de Guzman, de jong and Evra to...


The useful ones there picked up by Juventus who as I said are the only club in Italy in a competitive position at the moment on and off the pitch.


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## MikkelAndersen

gazzaa2 said:


> 4 German clubs made the CL knockouts this year compared to only Juventus in Italy.
> 
> 
> But soon Roma with their new stadium will be a force too. Maybe Milan with new owners and a stadium too.


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## GunnerJacket

Methinks we're straying off topic.


----------



## RMB2007

*Empoli*






























> "Today we present our idea of redevelopment of the Stadio Castellani: we have the will and the strength to do this, because we believe it is an opportunity for l'Empoli, for Empoli and a bit 'for all." The administrator delegate blue Francesco Ghelfi spoke today at a press conference to present the project to rebuild the stadium Carlo Castellani "We think it is a great opportunity - continued Ghlefi - useful and functional in the respect of everyone and everything. This restructuring would expect removal of existing curves, replacing them with two new structures attached to the field, creating in the belly of the curves of the spaces and office complexes. In addition, the project carried out by the Clean, it calls for the renovation of the grandstand, which will also see the creation of sky boxes, new seats and other files closer to the field that would replace the field box. Finally, everything will be surrounded by a ring honeycomb polycarbonate that recalls the most famous stages. *The capacity will be similar to the present, with about 17,500 seats, all covered, which could reach 20,000, if in the future new instructions arrive from the League.* The project does not track d'atletica but l'Empoli has labored to allocate an important contribution to moving in this town's other area. At the economic level the intervention involves a commitment d'euro from 10 million to 11 million, which could reach thanks to the rental of commercial areas that should be born and that would also create many new jobs. We are well underway with two partners who were more than willing to invest. " "I think it is an opportunity for the city and for the citizens as well as a way to enhance this area - he said the marketing manager Rebecca Courses - It will also be one stage with zero impact: Enegan, which will provide the solar panels that will be placed above the cover to feed the stadium, would acquire the name of the stadium, although Carlo Castellani will still remain also in the new denomination. "As for the timing - he concluded Ghelfi - follow what has been done by Udinese in the league last year. For our part, we would be ready to go again next spring and plan to complete the work in a matter of de championships. I also want to emphasize that this project will not go speculating of nothing: our only goal is to gain a technical advantage, building a stadium which brings the public and that can make you feel more heat to the players and year-end carry some important point. "


www.empolicalcio.net/L-Empoli-ha-presentato-il-progetto-per-il-nuovo-stadio.htm

More renders in the link below:

www.italianfootballdaily.com/empoli-presents-their-new-stadium-project/


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## IThomas

Pala AJ - A new arena for EA7 Emporio Armani Milano

The basketball arena will open in February 2016.


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## IThomas

RMB2007 said:


>


This is a good addition for the metro area of Florence


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## IThomas

*Ascoli Piceno presents Picchio Arena*

The City Council of Ascoli Piceno (a town of about 50,000 people, in Marche region, central Italy) has presented a new project to redevelop the city' sports facility. In order to become the new property stadium of the FC Ascoli Picchio - that currently play in Serie B League - the old Stadio Del Duca will see a massive redevelopment. A new tribune, roof and architectural elements will be added to the stadium. Also new services for families are planned: stores, restaurants and gyms. When works are completed the stadium will be renominated in Picchio Arena.

Capacity 15,000-18,000 seats
Works are expected to start at the end of this month-early September

first rendering




































http://www.corriereadriatico.it/ASC...ori_bellini_trubuna_est/notizie/1514584.shtml
http://www.jant.it/index.php/art-sp...a-picchio-arena-bellini-giornata-storica.html
http://www.picenotime.it/articoli/8759.html


----------



## G. Manetta Marquezin

IThomas said:


> *[URL="http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/28/c_134453001.htm"]Italian Serie A, goal--line technology, hymn unveiled at Milan Expo*[/URL]
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A new hymn that will be played in stadiums before all matches of Serie A was also unveiled. The new hymn, named "O Generosa!", was written by Italian musician Giovanni Allevi and celebrates the noble and pure strength that sporting champions must possess.
> 
> "The hymn is very close to the XVI century Italian madrigal, but then at some point it has a fully contemporary rhythm, while technically it is a polyphonic composition for four voices and orchestra, singing in Latin and in English". "I was stupefied by the idea of making many different worlds join together in this piece," he said.


OMG. This is fuc.king awful!!!

40 seconds of a song sung in english... for the ITALIAN championship.

of course, nobody liked this piece of shet:

http://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2015/07/27/serie-a-ecco-linno-di-giovanni-allevi-o-generosa-una-scelta-che-fa-discutere/1909790/


----------



## IThomas

*Cagliari Calcio plans new stadium*

"In November, the project for the new Cagliari Calcio stadium will be presented to the City Council" said Stefano Signorelli. "We do not know if the new stadium will be completed within the centenary of 2020, but we will try to achieve our goals". Signorelli added that new stadium (20,000-25,000 seats) will definitely be in English style. The sports facility will provide for spaces dedicated to music as well as restaurants opened all over the year. Investment plan: 50 million euro (hypothesis).

***

Cagliari Calcio is based in Cagliari (+420k people in its metro area; capital city of Sardinia region). Cagliari Calcio will play in Serie B in 2015–16 after relegation from Serie A.


----------



## HB07

IThomas said:


> Cagliari Calcio plans new stadium "In November, the project for the new Cagliari Calcio stadium will be presented to the City Council" said Stefano Signorelli. "We do not know if the new stadium will be completed within the centenary of 2020, but we will try to achieve our goals". Signorelli added that new stadium (20,000-25,000 seats) will definitely be in English style. The sports facility will provide for spaces dedicated to music as well as restaurants opened all over the year. Investment plan: 50 million euro (hypothesis). *** Cagliari Calcio is based in Cagliari (+420k people in its metro area; capital city of Sardinia region). Cagliari Calcio will play in Serie B in 2015–16 after relegation from Serie A.


Very good news. Gagliri has one if the uglyiest stadium in Serie A, with an URSS 70's style :nuts:


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## FiveYears

HB07 said:


> Very good news. Gagliri has one if the uglyiest stadium in Serie A, with an URSS 70's style :nuts:


You think serie B?


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## HB07

FiveYears said:


> You think serie B?


Gagliari is now in Serie B ?

Seems that i missed Serie A for a long time


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## IThomas

*A new stadium for Brescia?*

The daily Brescia Oggi reported that Mayor of Brescia, Emilio Del Bono, said within spring 2016 should be completed the public tender to sell the area of old city stadium to private investors. The idea is to design a stadium not only for football matches but also for music shows. 

There will be up to 20,000 covered seats and an area of sales related to the brand of Brescia Calcio. A swimming pool and bowling area should be built near the stadium, while Castelli park will be enlarged. It will be a kind of sports village with underground stations and parking lots. 

***
Brescia Calcio is based in the city of Brescia (+670,000 people in its urban area - 1.5 in its metro area). The team plays in Serie B League.


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## Picotto

I think Brescia is in third league now.


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## IThomas

Lega Calcio has decided that Brescia replace Parma in Serie B, because Parma declared bankruptcy in May 2015. In meantime, Parma has been acquired by a new society composed by local businessman (pasta magnate Barilla is among them), and start again from Serie D.


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## alexandru.mircea

IThomas said:


> Brescia Calcio is based in the city of Brescia (+670,000 people in its urban area - 1.5 in its metro area).


Wow, I never knew Brescia was so big a city. Because the football club never did much, I thought the city was of a size similar to that of cities with similarly small clubs, like Reggio Emilia (home of Regianna), Cremona (home of Cremonese), Piacenza or Vicenza. It is a surprise to learn now, from Wikipedia, how important the city is and how many important companies reside there. The football club has certainly been underachieving then!

Also, good to know about Parma. I'm a regular buyer of Barilla pasta but now I'll have the feeling that with each pack of pasta we buy, we help Parma the club! :lol:


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## MikkelAndersen

http://www.football-italia.net/71747/video-revamped-bologna-stadium

Bologna need to tear down the stands behind the goals, lower the pitch 3 metres and bring the seats on the two main stands 7-8 metres closer to the pitch. Build new stands just behind the goals and create a new 30.000 capacity stadium.


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## IThomas

Updates Pala AJ - Emporio Armani Milano basketball arena


----------



## gazzaa2

How come they can get basketball stadiums built in Italy but sorting out the infrastructure of the national sport is harder than pulling teeth?


----------



## Ugo Fantozzi

gazzaa2 said:


> How come they can get basketball stadiums built in Italy but sorting out the infrastructure of the national sport is harder than pulling teeth?


1) Money
2) Bureaucracy
3) Rampant overdevelopment


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## IThomas

*Italy will bid to host the 2023 Rugby World Cup*

Italy announce bid to host Rugby World Cup 2023. Italy has never hosted the RWC. The Italians face competition from Ireland, France and South Africa which have already hosted the event. The United States are also expected to bid.

Italian Rugby Federation (FIR) president Alfredo Gavazzi said: "I am sure that today Italian rugby has everything you need to organise a memorable Rugby World Cup and that whole movement, in the next two years, will work to ensure that this dream can become a reality."

England hosts this year's edition, which runs from 18 September to 31 October, with Japan staging it in 2019.

***
My proposed cities


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## Hamzawi

I think this would be a very good chance to improve the extremely-miserable current state of stadiums in Italy






IThomas said:


> *Italy will bid to host the 2023 Rugby World Cup*
> 
> Italy announce bid to host Rugby World Cup 2023. Italy has never hosted the RWC. The Italians face competition from Ireland, France and South Africa which have already hosted the event. The United States are also expected to bid.
> 
> Italian Rugby Federation (FIR) president Alfredo Gavazzi said: "I am sure that today Italian rugby has everything you need to organise a memorable Rugby World Cup and that whole movement, in the next two years, will work to ensure that this dream can become a reality."
> 
> England hosts this year's edition, which runs from 18 September to 31 October, with Japan staging it in 2019.
> 
> ***
> My proposed cities


----------



## Paolo98.To

IThomas said:


> My proposed cities


Do you know how many cities (and stadiums) they need for a Rugby World Cup...??


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## Paolo98.To

Ok... these are the venues for the 2015 World Cup...



They need a lot of stadiums! Really impressive...! :shocked:


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## IThomas

Paolo98.To said:


> Do you know how many cities (and stadiums) they need for a Rugby World Cup...??


RWC France 2007: 12 cities (12 stadiums)
RWC New Zealand 2011: 12 cities (12 stadiums)
RWC England 2015: 11 cities (13 stadiums)
RWC Japan 2019: 12 cities (12 stadiums)

:cheers:


----------



## Paolo98.To

IThomas said:


> RWC France 2007: 12 cities (12 stadiums)
> RWC New Zealand 2011: 12 cities (12 stadiums)
> RWC England 2015: 11 cities (13 stadiums)
> RWC Japan 2019: 12 cities (12 stadiums)
> 
> :cheers:


VERY interesting Thomas! :cheers: 

These are my proposed cities and venues (in red on the map):



1)Roma (population- 2 866 823)
-"Olympic Stadium" (capacity 72.698)
-"Flaminio Stadium" (capacity 24.973)

Roma would be the only city to have more than one stadium;
I think that such an extraordinary event as the Rugby World Cup, would be a great opportunity to renovate the "Flaminio Stadium" and, maybe, to upgrade the capacity to 30.000 seats; after the great event, it would become the official stadium of the Italian Rugby Federation, as it was until 2011.
However, the main stadium of Rome would, obviously, be the "Olympic Stadium", which already hosted many important matches of rugby.

2)Milano (pop- 1 339 975)
-"Giuseppe Meazza Stadium" (capacity 81 277)

3)Napoli (pop- 977 136)
-"San Paolo Stadium" (capacity 76 824)

4)Torino (pop- 895 765)
-"Olympic Stadium" (capacity 28.140)
or
-"Juventus Stadium" (capacity 41.254)

Obviously, the Juventus Stadium would be a very beautiful "host stadium", because of the capacity and because it is a very modern sport facility, but I personally think that also the Olympic Stadium would be a quite interesting venue for a sport like rugby, maybe more than the "Juventus Stadium" itself.
Despite the limited capacity, the Olympic Stadium hosted the rugby "Test Match: Italy-Scotland" just a few weeks ago, and it has proven to be a very interesting facility for this kind of sport. However, I think that the capacity of the Stadium would need to be upgrade for an event like the World Cup (from 28.000 to 30.000 or 35.000 seats, I believe), and this is why the "Juventus Stadium" would be probably choose for an Italian bid...

5)Palermo (pop- 677 143)
-"Renzo Barbera Stadium" (capacity 36 349)

6)Genova (pop- 590.727)
-"Luigi Ferraris Stadium" (capacity 36.703)

7)Bologna (pop- 386 419)
-"Renato Dall'Ara Stadium" (capacity 38 279)

8)Firenze (pop- 381.037)
-"Artemio Franchi Stadium" (capacity 43 234)

9)Bari (pop- 327 013)
-"San Nicola Stadium" (capacity 58.248)

10)Verona (pop- 259 871)
-"Marcantonio Bentegodi Stadium" (capacity 39 211)

11)Cagliari (pop- 154 478)
-New Stadium, maybe the new stadium of the "Cagliari Calcio"

In addition to these stadiums, I selected other 3 possible venues (in green on the map), if there would be some problems with the other stadiums (especially for Cagliari...):

1)Catania (pop- 315 410)
-"Angelo Massimino Stadium" (capacity 23 200)

2)Pescara (pop- 121.366)
-"Adriatic Stadium" (capacity 20.681)

3)Udine (pop- 99 473)
-"Friuli Stadium" (capacity 25.144); a new stadium under construction

However, if Italy will host the Rugby World Cup, I hope that for 2023 some stadiums will be renovated or rebuilt (especially in Napoli, Palermo and Cagliari...), so that there could be more modern facilities...


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## IThomas

edit


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## IThomas

edit


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## IThomas

*Avellino Arena*

It's done. After Ascoli Picchio and Pescara Calcio, another Serie B football club will have a new property stadium. 










US Avellino has signed an agreement with President Andrea Abodi, to redevelop completely the old ground.










Not only a 21,000 seats stadium. New training camps with a large sports area, but also new infrastructures, services, stores and a hotel are planned.









The real project should be presented soon.

http://www.irpinianews.it/avellino-calcio-stadio-abodi-taccone/
http://www.corrieredellosport.it/ne...868218/avellino_intesa_per_il_nuovo_partenio/


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## gazzaa2

What Udinese have done seems to be having a knock on effect on the smaller clubs choosing to modernise their decrepit old stadiums. 

Clubs trying to emulate Juventus with a larger build are locked in red tape for now.


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## hittentot

Is the home of Udinese ready now?


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## IThomas

^^
The stadium is opened, but it will be completed in January 2016.



gazzaa2 said:


> What Udinese have done seems to be having a knock on effect on the smaller clubs choosing to modernise their decrepit old stadiums.
> 
> Clubs trying to emulate Juventus with a larger build are locked in red tape for now.


No mate, Udinese has nothing to do with Serie B. The story is different. The President of Lega Serie B, Mr Abodi, had already created a special plan called "B Futura": it is set to revolutionise the league system, to push and drive the modernisation and development/construction of stadia and training centres in Italy. Another purpose is increase the number of fans and improving the spectator experience of the stadia.


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## IThomas

MILAN
Updates *Pala AJ - Armani Olimpia Milano (Basketball Arena)* :cheers:









the.fasg


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## IThomas

AC Milan meets "tifosi" at Casa Milan (Portello district, Milan) :cheers:


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## IThomas

MILAN
Pala AJ (Basketball Arena)


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## IThomas

*Joe Tacopina promises new stadium for the 'lagoon city'*

FC Venezia new era began this morning in the Music Room of Ca' Sagredo, a patrician palace built in XIV century. The football team has a new owner, Joe Tacopina.

Mr Tacopina has in mind a project that involves the team and sports facilities. First the need to build a new stadium to replace the old Penzo, located on the St. Helena island. "With pride and humility I embarked on the adventure of representing Venice, the club that belongs to an unique city in the world. We want to work to return in Serie A. We want to make the Venetians proud to be FC Venezia supporters".

Meanwhile, the team (which plays in Serie D) already flies high: FC Venezia has won all the first six matches with 18 goals scored.

http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/09-10...-obiettivo-tornare-serie-a-130436539670.shtml
http://www.veneziatoday.it/cronaca/...l-venezia-in-serie-a-poi-il-nuovo-stadio.html


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## alexandru.mircea

^finally


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## IThomas

IThomas said:


> *Joe Tacopina promises new stadium for the 'lagoon city'*


Tacopina plans for a new 28/30k seat stadium + shopping center + hotel, on the mainland near the Marco Polo international airport.


----------



## IThomas

According to the latest rumors by the Italian financial daily Il Sole 24 Ore, Pablo Dana is landed in Italy with the aim to explore business opportunities in Serie A. The Dubai manager, thanks to the help of Fabio Cannavaro, his partner in GLS (the League that organizes games between football legends in Asia), would like to bring Asian and Middle Eastern investors in Italian football teams: Genoa and Napoli are the first societies taken in consideration.


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## likasz

What will be the capacity of PalaLido?


----------



## Ugo Fantozzi

likasz said:


> What will be the capacity of PalaLido?


 5400


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## IThomas

*New arena for Cantù basketball team*

The Russian revolution began a year ago when Dmitry Gerasimenko reached his family in Lugano. He went to see his son Egor (age 13) play in the youth team of Cantù (Milan metro area): the boy wears the jersey of a club that has produced a dynasty of basketball champions.

Dmitry is proud of the progress of his little boy, but sitting on the seats of the old Pianella Cucciago, the Russian tycoon looked at the club banners hanging from the ceiling. But how it is possible that Cantù is not anymore in the basketball elite? How can a club like this play in this old arena? "Oh no" says Dmitry "My son must to play in a new arena" said to his Italian friends. Gerasimenko family is thinking to build a 5,500/6,000 seats arena, with restaurants, stores, Spa areas, and the basketball museum.


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## IThomas

Updates PalaLido / PalaAJ (basketball arena)









https://www.flickr.com/photos/obliot/22475763659/


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## IThomas

*New Cagliari Calcio stadium*

Cagliari Calcio is based in Cagliari (+420k people in its metro area; capital city of Sardinia region). Cagliari Calcio play in Serie B in 2015–16 season after relegation from Serie A.

The old fatiscent Stadio Sant'Elia, once hosting several matches at the 1990 World Cup, doesn't offer sufficient requirements today. 









* The old Stadio Sant'Elia (pic above) is scheduled to be demolished in June 2017
* The new property stadium (21,000 > 25,000 seats) should be completed in 2019
* The Cagliari Calcio Village will include a sports hall + football fields for training + food areas + stores + museum
* Investment plan: 55 million euros


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## Big Boss

makkillottu said:


> I'm from Cagliari and the story is quite long. After 1990 FIFA WC, without any maintenaince from the club and being few hundred meters away from the sea, salt quickly damaged heavily the whole structure. In order to keep playing the matches in town, they decided to built a stadium-in-stadium in 2002.
> In 2012 "Cagliari Calcio" decided to move its steel structures to Quartu Sant'Elena (suburban area of Cagliari), where the Is Arenas stadium was born after a couple of months, before a long legal battle closed it and forced the club to move the whole thing back to Cagliari.
> After all that (and Massimo Cellino sold the club, before buying FA's Championship-side Leeds United), the new-and-more-professional owners decided to rebuilt it inside, demolishing the concrete stands above the temporary safety exits (due to a measure imposed by the local council) and starting the project of the new stadium.
> 
> Meanwhile, the new owners started to invest also in town in renovating the brand ident and its official stores (only the 2-floors Cagliari 1920 Store located in Yenne Square costed around 500.000 euros) as well.


Thank you for sharing the stadium history, it's really very interesting, and the new looks great!


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## makkillottu

Finally new renders about new Cagliari Calcio stadium!


free image hosting


hostare immagini


image share


hosting immagini


image hosting


----------



## IThomas




----------



## Ranma Saotome

That's an excellent design!


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## Ranma Saotome

Picotto said:


> Capacity?


21,000 spectators, cost at 55 million euro (source).


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## Ranma Saotome

More images:














































https://vk.com/worldstadiums


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## MikkelAndersen

Beautiful stadium, though the VIP area is a bit heavy. Would have liked a few more rows of seats before the glass facades. Nevermind, the capacity is excellent. The bottom Serie a clubs with less than 200.000 should go for 18.000-22.000 seater stadiums =) When will they begin constructing the stadium?


----------



## IThomas

^^
read first post of this page


----------



## BenC32

Please don't take offence, but it almost looks like a British stadium. It's a great design.


----------



## makkillottu

^^

In order to better understand the sections of the stadium, here's all translations:

LOUNGE CON VISTA MARE & VISTA CAMPO = Lounge area with both sea and pitch view
VIALE CAMPIONI = Red and Blue avenue
FORESTERIA = Guest house
CHIOSCHI E BAGNI = Food&Drink area and toilets
TORNELLI = Entrance
PODIO = Podium
SPOGLIATOI SQUADRE = Teams' lockerrooms
CENTRO CONVEGNI = Conference center
SPOGLIATOI PUBBLICI = Public lockerroom (available for citizens out for jogging, etc.)

I think it's enough


----------



## makkillottu

BenC32 said:


> Please don't take offence, but it almost looks like a British stadium. It's a great design.


Thank you. Actually the project was developed with British companies as well, such as The Stadium Consultancy, Repucom, Larry Smith, Mcdermott Will&Emery, etc.


----------



## IThomas

*11 football venues across Italy chosen for Rome 2024 Olympic bid*

see more > http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=129533114&postcount=37


----------



## 12decendants

Does anybody know what is the hold-up on the Stadio della Roma project?

It's nice to see that Cagliari is finally doing something to create something to replace the horrible Stadio Sant'Elia, but what I don't understand is why the capacity is only 21,000. Cagliari should be aiming for something higher, like 25-30,000 like Udinese.


----------



## MikkelAndersen

12decendants said:


> Does anybody know what is the hold-up on the Stadio della Roma project?
> 
> It's nice to see that Cagliari is finally doing something to create something to replace the horrible Stadio Sant'Elia, but what I don't understand is why the capacity is only 21,000. Cagliari should be aiming for something higher, like 25-30,000 like Udinese.


I believe 21.000 in Udine, 177.000 inhabitants, would have been fine too. Better an almost full stadium than 30-40 per cent of the seats free. Only 166.000 live in Cagliari - so filling a 30.000 stadium might be difficult. Cities with less than 200.000 inhabitants should aim for 20.000 stadiums.


----------



## Plevc

MikkelAndersen said:


> I believe 21.000 in Udine, 177.000 inhabitants, would have been fine too. Better an almost full stadium than 30-40 per cent of the seats free. Only 166.000 live in Cagliari - so filling a 30.000 stadium might be difficult. Cities with less than 200.000 inhabitants should aim for 20.000 stadiums.


I really find it amousing, when there are people suggesting that Cagliari should aim for a 30k stadium, whereas in another thread there are some claiming Milan should build no more than a 35k stadium...

Anyway, I'm delighted that Caliari is doing somethng to sort the stadium situation out. The present situation is already taking too long.


----------



## gazzaa2

12decendants said:


> *Does anybody know what is the hold-up on the Stadio della Roma project*?
> 
> It's nice to see that Cagliari is finally doing something to create something to replace the horrible Stadio Sant'Elia, but what I don't understand is why the capacity is only 21,000. Cagliari should be aiming for something higher, like 25-30,000 like Udinese.


Italian bureaucracy. Time will tell how long it takes and if and when it's built. There hasn't been any new builds in Italy since Italia 90. Juventus Arena e exception but that was still on the site of the previous ground and took years and years to finally get built.


----------



## IThomas

In this case, the masterplan (309 acres) includes not only the stadium, but other buildings, infrastructures, green areas, etc. Why a long time? Different government bodies, with different political ideas, have to give the green light for the construction... but before to do it, they ask different variations on the project. There are problems linked to the strict urban planning rules or for other reasons (like when cultural heritage 'agencies' have to give their own responses on the proposed project). Another important keypoint to consider are the delays for the delivery of the construction documents.


----------



## makkillottu

On the Media was not reported, but Cagliari Calcio had many informal meetings to work together Region and Municipal authorities on the project (a lot of fine-tuning stuff) ALREADY BEFORE officially presenting the first project, in order to have a better "bureaucracy" and get earlier the green light to demolition/construction. All the authorisations process should be therefore easier, as much work has been already done.


----------



## 12decendants

gazzaa2 said:


> Italian bureaucracy. Time will tell how long it takes and if and when it's built. There hasn't been any new builds in Italy since Italia 90. Juventus Arena e exception but that was still on the site of the previous ground and took years and years to finally get built.


PATHETIC. I am hoping that James Palotta doesn't get irritated by the Italian bureaucracy that he abandons this plan. With that said, 2017 is looking really bright for Serie A with potentially 4 Champions League places and 4 new stadiums..AS Roma, Bologna, Atalanta, and Frosinone.

That Italia 90 really sets Italy back for decades. We're just starting to recover from that almost 25 years later and I don't know when we're gonna arrive at the day when we finally finish with remodeling or undoing the mistakes we made with the stadiums. Only Olimpico, San Siro, and Marassi were acceptable and since then only Dell'Alpi and Friuli were made brand new.

I still got two questions. What are the changes being made in San Siro for the Champions League final next year other than the new rows they installed during the summer?

And what is the latest news coming from Florence with their new stadium plans??


----------



## IThomas

US Avellino is expected to present project of new stadium in next 2 weeks. 
The football team, located in the city of Avellino (Naples metro area), play in Serie B league at moment.


----------



## Ugo Fantozzi

IThomas said:


> (Naples metro area)


but it's very far to Naples


----------



## IThomas

Ugo Fantozzi said:


> but it's very far to Naples


for international standards it isn't


----------



## IThomas

*A new stadium for FC Casertana?*

Democratic Party's candidate mayor, Andrea Boccagna, has proposed a project.

Caserta is a city with 76,000 inhabitants, not so far from Naples.
The Royal Palace of Caserta with its gardens 





If elected as new mayor of Caserta, he intends to build a 13,000 seats stadium, following the model of Brita Arena (in Germany). 

The new stadium is expected to become the new home of FC Casertana, the local football team that currently plays in Lega Pro (the league behind Serie A and Serie B). In addition, he proposed a new village with services, stores and more. The project should be realised on a 100,000 sqm area. 

The Credito Sportivo Italiano (Italian Credit for Sports) could help the city to finance the project.


----------



## IThomas

*New Pavia stadium designed by university students*










A team of twenty students involved in an Italian-Chinese exchange program, attending the Faculty of Civil Engineering and Architecture, will present six proposals for the new Pavia stadium.

City Council of Pavia (a town of 72,000 inhabitants, not so far from Milan) and Pavia Calcio (the local football team that currently plays in Lega Pro) will decide the winner project.

"The project involves the total transformation of the Stadio Fortunati, and it will have a capacity of 20,000 seats" said the general manager of Pavia Calcio, Nicola Bignotti. "Also we want a new hotel with restaurants next to the stadium, as well as gyms, cinema, services and stores related to sports" he added.


----------



## Henk1970

What's happening at the stadium of Ascoli? I noticed that the opposite Main Stand is demolished?


----------



## IThomas

^^
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=126303563&postcount=1224


----------



## IThomas

*AS Livorno Calcio: new proposed stadium*


----------



## IThomas

*Naples to host 2019 Summer Universiade*

After Brasilia (Brazil) pulled out of hosting the 2019 Summer Universiade (World University Games) due to not being able to meet financial commitments, the bidding process for the international event was re-opened last year. 

Today, the city of Naples has been selected as the hosting city. Naples is home to the University of Naples Federico II, one of the oldest institutions in continuous operation, having been founded in 1224.

Italy has significant experience with the event, having hosted four previous Summer Universiades in 1959, 1970, 1975 and most recently in 1997. The nation also hosted 6 Winter Universiades in the years 1966, 1975, 1985, 2003, 2007 and 2013. 

http://napoli.repubblica.it/cronaca...assegnate_a_napoli_e_alla_campania-134834138/
http://napoli.fanpage.it/napoli-vince-ospitera-le-universiadi-2019/


----------



## IThomas

edit


----------



## IThomas

*A new sports village in Salerno*








The project of a new sports village was presented 2 days ago in Salerno (a city not so far from Naples, near the Amalfi Coast). 
With a private investment of 40 million euro, the sports village will be built in front of the Marina degli Arechi (the touristic port of Salerno) and not so far from Stadio degli Arechi.








​
The project provides for the construction of:
* sports hall 
* indoor swimming pool
* 2 basketball fields
* 1 tennis court
* beach arena for volley and soccer (7,800 sqm)
* canoeing center on the beach
* gyms
* room for "sports medicine" (150 sqm)
* room for the "games of the brain" (300 sqm)
* sports club (2,400 smq)
* wellness center (2,000 sqm)
* physiotherapy center (3,000 sqm)
* restaurant (500 sqm)
* stores (6,000 sqm)
* offices (500 sqm)
* guesthouse (28 rooms)
* conference room for the Italian Olympic Committee and local sports clubs (700 sqm)
* press center (270 sqm)
* fair / exhibition area (15,700 sqm)
* parking (20,000 sqm)

Construction work begin this year.








source: comune di salerno


----------



## IThomas

*Rome to host EuroGames 2019*










While Rome is bidding to host the 2024 Olympics, the Eternal City has been awarded as hosting city of EuroGames 2019, the sports event created by the LGBT community, under license from the European Gay and Lesbian Sports Federation. Organizers expect the arrival of more than 5,000 athletes from around the world.


----------



## CB31

^^

Well I think that first Italy should start having better laws in favour of the LGTB community....


----------



## IThomas

*2019 Summer Universiade*
Naples


----------



## IThomas

*Atalanta may become Italy's new club to play in its own stadium*

Atalanta could be the next Italian football club to own its own stadium. In fact, the Bergamo stadium is up for sale. And the team based in Lombardy Region is interested in buying the facility. The city council decided to launch the sale of the Atleti Azzurri d'Italia stadium.

"We are convinced that a new stadium is not an option, and are focused on the development and requalification of the current facility" said Gori, mayor of Bergamo. "We want a high quality stadium, that will benefit the city as well as the club itself". By next fall, the tender for the stadium's sale should be ready. An expert will establish a value of the facility. The task was entrusted to the Milan -based Avalon, a company specialized in the services of the real estate and construction sectors. 

In addition to owning the Bergamo-based club, Antonio Percassi, the former Atalanta player turned businessman, through the Odissea Srl holding company, owns a group of companies that between real estate, outlets and the cosmetic company, Kiko. And a few months ago he said that he was ready to invest "between €25 and €30 million" of the stadium. "We are waiting for the tender sale or alternatively, we are interested in a licensing" explained Percassi. 

The Atalanta owner carried out a first renovation in the central grandstands setting up seats closer to the field and boxes with views from above, called pitch view and sky box. The cost of these first renovations was €5.5 million. The Bergamo stadium was built in 1928, the various developments have eliminated the running track, it has a capacity of 25,000, and it hosts the matches of Atalanta FC, which is fifteenth in Serie A, and UC Albinoleffe, currently playing in Lega Pro.


----------



## gazzaa2

Their stadium is horrible. It needs extensive renovation.


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## IThomas

"When I see football societies still continuing to construct stadiums with 60,000 seats, I laugh. I'd like to build super-equipped stadiums with 15,000 seats, a sort of modern luxury theatres for football" said SSC Napoli President, Aurelio De Laurentiis, in an interview with Corriere dello Sport, during a meeting with Lega Calcio in Milan. "People must pay a lot money to attend a football match: it should be celebrated as a great event. I'd like to revolutionize everything, bringing great changes in our championships" he added.


----------



## MikkelAndersen

IThomas said:


> "When I see football societies still continuing to construct stadiums with 60,000 seats, I laugh. I'd like to build super-equipped stadiums with 15,000 seats, a sort of modern luxury theatres for football" said SSC Napoli President, Aurelio De Laurentiis, in an interview with Corriere dello Sport, during a meeting with Lega Calcio in Milan. "People must pay a lot money to attend a football match: it should be celebrated as a great event. I'd like to revolutionize everything, bringing great changes in our championships" he added.


Aurelio De Laurentiis is crazy. Napoli need a modern 50.000 seater stadium they can fill each time. The average tifosi in Napoli can't afford to pay no more than 15-20 euros for a ticket.


----------



## carnifex2005

He's right though. Gone are the days when 20 euro seats can pay off the cost of a stadium. Smaller stadiums that can cater to people who can spend far more per visit is what works these days.


----------



## gazzaa2

IThomas said:


> "*When I see football societies still continuing to construct stadiums with 60,000 seats, I laugh*. I'd like to build super-equipped stadiums with 15,000 seats, a sort of modern luxury theatres for football" said SSC Napoli President, Aurelio De Laurentiis, in an interview with Corriere dello Sport, during a meeting with Lega Calcio in Milan. "People must pay a lot money to attend a football match: it should be celebrated as a great event. I'd like to revolutionize everything, bringing great changes in our championships" he added.


The Emirates probably generates more money for Arsenal than most of the stadiums in Serie A put together.

Italian football is so backwards on this issue.


----------



## RMB2007

Just a quick reminder that this thread is for stadiums and arenas in Italy that don't have a thread of their own. Thanks.


----------



## IThomas

*FC Inter close to China?*

Some months ago, FC Inter President Eric Thohir, appointed Goldman Sachs to find a new partner. In early 2016, the Indonesian tycoon met Zhang Jindong, owner of Suning Commerce Group: the Chinese billionaire expressed the will to buy 20-25% shares of FC Inter. 

Another offer came from Wang Jing, a 44-years-old billionaire, President and CEO of Xinwei Group, a telecommunications company. Mr. Jing is even well known in China Railway Construction: the same society that in 2013 was interested in buy shares of the Milanese team. However, Mr Jing would like to build a new property stadium for the Neroazzurri. 

According to other rumors, Mr. Tronchetti (Pirelli CEO) is inviting ChemChina to join the team.

http://www.corrieredellosport.it/ne...a_con_zhang_l_internazionale_parlera_cinese_/


----------



## MikkelAndersen

> Torino and their business partners will hold a Press conference tomorrow to present the new Stadio Filadelfia.


http://www.football-italia.net/82619/torino-present-stadium-tomorrow


----------



## IThomas

Frosinone is proud of its stadium (16,000 seats). "This year, revenues amounted to 27 million euro" said Mr Stirpe, President of Frosinone Calcio, "but there is no future without a sports plant. For this reason we are investing in a new property stadium" he added.



















http://www.mediagol.it/frosinone/pr...vo-stadio-senza-infrastrutture-non-ce-futuro/


----------



## Confusius

How big capacity do Torino need?


----------



## MikkelAndersen

Confusius said:


> How big capacity do Torino need?


I guess 25.000 will be sufficient. They have an average just under 19.000. 
http://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/ita-serie-a-2015-2016/1/
Or they could go a bit bigger and build a two tier stadium with 18 seats on both levels and aim at 30.000.
At bit like Wolfsburg.
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net...ium_001.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130530170417
I guess a new stadium like that would attract 20.000-25.000 people.


----------



## Picotto

Filadelfia stadium if constructed will not be new home ground of Torino. It will be their training ground and probably only youth team will play there.


----------



## IThomas

*Crotone plans new property stadium*

Crotone Calcio is just a little football team from Calabria region (south Italy), but aims to be promoted in Serie A for the first time in its history. Today, President of Crotone Calcio, Raffaelle Vrenna, Crotone Calcio CEO Gianni Vrenna, and the Vicepresident Salvatore Gualtieri presented new plans of the society.

The goal is to own a property stadium with a capacity of 18,000 seats. "It will be an arena inspired to our history" said Mr Vrenna. "Also we want to redevelop the nearest Pignera Park and build a new sports centre for our team" he added. 






http://www.strettoweb.com/2016/04/s...a-unarena-greca-con-18-000-spettatori/396214/
http://www.ilcirotano.it/2016/04/11...-con-capienza-18-000-spettatori-fra-tre-anni/


----------



## IThomas

*President of Pordenone Calcio: "A new stadium for our team"*

Mauro Lovisa, President of Pordenone Calcio, said he hopes that his team is promoted to Serie B. When press asked him what he think about the possibility to build a new stadium, he replied "It's one of the goals to achieve. A new property stadium is important for us: we will construct it for sure".

Mr Lovisa wants not only a stadium, but a sports plant able to host other sports and cultural events. The new stadium (20,000 seats) should be built with a private investment, near the Interporto Logic Centre.

Pordenone Calcio currently plays in Lega Pro (3rd football division behind Serie A and Serie B), the team is based in the city of Pordenone (north-east Italy).

http://messaggeroveneto.gelocal.it/...04/12/news/un-arena-all-interporto-1.13283749


----------



## MikkelAndersen

http://gazzettaworld.gazzetta.it/news/serie-a/inter/suning-expand-empire/

This could lead to Inter leaving San Siro and build their own 60.000 stadium. With Milan stock in a too big 81.000 stadium they can only fill half.


----------



## MikkelAndersen

MikkelAndersen said:


> http://gazzettaworld.gazzetta.it/news/serie-a/inter/suning-expand-empire/
> 
> This could lead to Inter leaving San Siro and build their own 60.000 stadium. With Milan stock in a too big 81.000 stadium they can only fill half.


^^

http://www.calciomercato.com/en/news/berlusconi-negotiating-ac-milan-sale-558927


----------



## IThomas

His family (I mean his daughter Marina, President of Fininvest) would like to sell the team. We'll see if Silvio accept.
However, it would be great if new owners present a project for a new stadium.


----------



## MikkelAndersen

http://www.football-italia.net/82792/new-group-milan-investors


----------



## IThomas

^^
Financial daily Il Sole 24 Ore reported that an Italo-American advisor, former banker in Lehman Brothers, Salvatore Galatioto, is helping a Chinese investor (whose name is unknown at moment) to buy AC Milan.

Galatioto Sports Partners is discussing with Fininvest (Berlusconi's holding). The offer amounts to €650/700 mln for the 100% shares of the Milanese team. The new investor wants to become the sole owner, with Silvio Berlusconi as honorary President.

Galatioto Sports Partners is well known in the United States for its successful results: the selling of American sports clubs like Chicago Cubs (USD845 mln), Charlotte Bobcats (USD275 mln), Golden State Warriors (USD450 mln).


----------



## IThomas

*Chinese group wants to seal AC Milan takeover by June*
*Bloomberg*

The Chinese investor group pursuing a takeover of the AC Milan soccer club, which is controlled by former Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, is targeting a deal by June, people with knowledge of the matter said. 

The consortium, whose investors have a background in renewable energy and media, has agreed on most key terms and is seeking a deal in time for the summer transfer season, the people said, asking not to be identified because the talks are confidential. Berlusconi’s Fininvest SpA and the Chinese group have already discussed plans to strengthen the squad, and the initial investment would be used to make the team more competitive rather than pay down debt, one of the people said.

Berlusconi, who has owned Milan for 30 years, is seeking a buyer at a low point in the club’s history. Once considered soccer royalty, the team is languishing in sixth place in the Italian league and fired its manager on Tuesday (...) The Chinese consortium is targeting at least a 50 percent stake, which could rise to about 70 percent, one of the people said. The investors are now conducting due diligence on AC Milan’s debt as well as player contracts, another person said. (...)


----------



## MikkelAndersen

http://www.blackwhitereadallover.co...utiful-swan-that-turned-into-an-ugly-duckling

New 20.000-50.000 stadiums are needed among other things. Juventus cannot drag Serie A back to the glorious past all by herself =(


----------



## MikkelAndersen

https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/4fd2il/the_status_of_stadiums_in_italy_pt2/

An update on the stadium situation in Italy.


----------



## IThomas

^^
Some corrections are needed



> Inter and Milan: Both will stay in San Siro. *Milan plans for a stadium in Milan's city center got cancelled after the citizens of that area protested saying that they don't want a stadium so close to their homes.* They plan to buy San Siro and completely renovate it 50% each, which in my opinion is the right choice since San Siro is such an historic stadium.


Wrong. AC Milan proposed stadium was canceled because the Rossoneri have not found an agreement with (Fiera di Milano) the owner of Portello area.



> Roma: The Giallorossi are still working on their 52.000 seated stadium. *Construction got delayed because they had problems with the city council*, it's expected to be ready in 2019 by the way.


No. the US company which is working on the project has still to send documents to Lazio Region.



> Fiorentina : La Viola plans to move out of Stadio Artemio Franchi before 2020. *They have reached an agreement with Florence City council to build a new 40.000 stadium just outside the city* (Similar to where the Allianz Arena is in Munich). It will look like Bourdeux *new stadium more or less and will cost 400M.*


That figure is not the cost of new stadium... but of the entire "Fiorentina village". Financial plan was around 320 million euro.
The new village will be located between the city and Florence airport.



> Bologna: Bologna is about to buy Stadio Renato Dall'Ara to renovate it and transform it *into this beauty*. Works will begin probably next summer and it is expected to be over in 2018.


Renders of that link are old. 



> Frosinone: They are currently building their own, small stadium. *It will be a 10.000 seater* and it will be ready in August of this year, this is how it will look like. As i said it's very small but fair for a city of 30.000 like Frosinone. Hope they stay up.


The stadium capacity is 16,000 seats. Frosinone is not a city of 30,000 inhabitants.


----------



## MikkelAndersen

Thanks =) ^^


----------



## IThomas

>>>


----------



## IThomas

*Pescara plans new stadium*

"In previous months, we have pushed for the redevelopment of old Stadio Adriatico, but the Superintendence for Cultural Heritage has put some constraints on the stadium. So we had to abandon such idea and we chose to start another project: the construction of a new stadium within a larger plan that involves the creation of a sports village" said Pescara Mayor. "A new stadium in line with UEFA standards, and with no athletic track" he added.

"We have followed a path to redevelop the old city stadium, but we have realized that there are some problems for the realization of that project. So it came out of the idea to build a new stadium. Pescara Calcio (the local football team) and the University agreed with our proposal. However, this would allow the old Stadio Adriatico to be used for other purposes" said the Councilor for Public Works.










The new stadium should be built between the beach and the Appennines, along the Pescara Sud bypass, linked with the national highway and the railway network.



















http://www.calcioefinanza.it/2017/06/12/nuovo-stadio-pescara-2/
http://www.ilpescara.it/cronaca/cittadella-dello-sport-nuovo-stadio-pescara.html



















To note: Pescara is a city of 120k people (450k metro area), in Abruzzo region.


----------



## endrity

I hate that they don't privatize the old athletics stadiums and simply let the team redevelop them. They have all the space needed and are well positioned close to city centers, why is there a need to move the team far away.


----------



## IThomas

^^
They have done it in Bergamo: the city council realized an auction. And Atalanta won.
In places like Cagliari and Empoli, new stadia will replace old ones. While in Bologna and Bari, old stadia are expected to be refurbished.


----------



## 1772

MikkelAndersen said:


> Still the atmosphere in Juventus Stadium beats any stadium in England any day:banana:.
> It's not about 40.000 or 60.000 in average, but full stadiums, architecture and atmosphere.
> Tickets today counts for less and less compared to sponsors, CL participation, TV-money and merchandises.
> 
> http://ir.manutd.com/~/media/Images.../business-model-new-oct.png?h=457&la=en&w=790
> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WPpv8ozM52Q/VqNjTb-iNSI/AAAAAAAAZV8/10mJMLbYPIQ/s1600/1.jpg
> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-tas_P_SjZwI/Vq5IjcyR8-I/AAAAAAAAKkA/nmWk64auIwo/s1600/7+Revenue+Type.jpg


Indeed. Why is 80 000 silent tourists at Old Trafford better than 40 000 screaming fans at Juventus Stadium?


----------



## FiveYears

In Italy some good stadium progresses are happening kay:


----------



## IThomas

*Updates Benito Stirpe Stadium*
The new stadium of small football team from Frosinone, a town of 46k inhabitants located about 75 km south-east of Rome.


----------



## endrity

Don't tell me those gaps will remain open?


----------



## IThomas

^^



























I don't like the solution they adopted. 
Anyway, if the stadium should get an upgrade/expansion in the future, I think they will remove the three similar stands.


----------



## IThomas

*Stadio Flaminio won "Keeping It Modern" Getty Foundation's contest. *



> Designed for the 1960 Olympic Games in Rome, the Stadio Flaminio is one of Pier Luigi Nervi's most celebrated buildings. Nervi was a prolific architect and engineer, who explored the boundaries of reinforced concrete with daring technological innovations and expressive concepts. By creating an arena that could hold 45,000 people, Nervi succeeded in a structural engineering feat for the time—transforming concrete into gravity-defying forms.
> 
> Stadio Flaminio is one of many arenas and sports buildings designed by Nervi and reflects his numerous years of experience. With the stadium fully executed by the Nervi family's architectural firm and designed in partnership with his son Antonio, Nervi had unique freedom to implement some of the structural engineering innovations in reinforced concrete and ferro- (or thin-) shell cement that he had been developing for decades. Although originally designed to host soccer matches, the venue has been used for other activities throughout the years, including rugby games and concerts. In 2011, despite its architectural and historic importance, the stadium was decommissioned due to declining use.
> 
> The Municipality of Rome recognizes the importance of the venue and will develop a conservation plan to guide the stadium's restoration and revitalization. The plan will include analysis of the building's architecturally significant elements, investigation of its structural stability, and scientific research of materials. The conservation plan for Stadio Flaminio sends a strong signal of the city's support for modern architecture and is a positive step in the long-term stewardship of Nervi's large body of work.
> 
> Grant support: €161,000


http://www.forzaroma.info/rassegna-...io-flaminio-assegnato-il-bando/?refresh_ce-cp
http://getty.edu/foundation/initiatives/current/keeping_it_modern/grants_awarded_2017.html


----------



## IThomas

*CONI will open Olympic campus in Milan*

CONI, the Italian National Olympic Committee, is considering to turn Saini sports centre into an Olympic campus similar to the one in Rome, where to train athletes. The idea was discussed by CONI President Giovanni Malagò, Milan Mayor Giuseppe Sala and Lombardia Governor Roberto Maroni. "I am very pleased that CONI choosen Milan and has a presence here" said the Mayor. "Our first goal is to make a technical assessment. We will do it in these weeks, with a project" he added.

Opened in 1975, Saini spans over a surface of 160,000 sqm. At moment, the centre is able to host different disciplines: Athletics, Gymnastics, Football, American Football, Rugby, Basketball, Volleyball, Beach Volleyball, Tennis, Baseball, Lawn Hockey, Softball, Archery, Rollerblade, Swimming, Water Sports Soccer, Cross-country Skiing, Diving, Martial Arts, Fencing.

http://milano.repubblica.it/cronaca...scalo_centro_preparazione_olimpico-172106016/
http://www.affaritaliani.it/milano/sport_milano/il-saini-un-oasi-polisportiva-a-milano-488343.html


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## Gadiri




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## IThomas

*Brescia Calcio looks at future*

Massimo Cellino, entrepreneur and former owner of Cagliari Calcio and Leeds United, bought Brescia Calcio (the Serie B football team based in the city of Brescia). The agreement also includes the continuation of the project for a new stadium in the area of old Stadio Mario Rigamonti. "Without an adeguate sports plant, there is no business in modern football" Cellino said.

There is already a discussion about a new covered stadium with sky boxes and VIP areas, as well as new areas around the stadium and pedestrian paths linked with Castelli Park and nearest subway station; and car parkings. Official Brescia Calcio Store and Museum, food and retail areas, medical centre and services should find new home within a building to be built near the stadium. The planned investment amounts to 26 million euros.

http://www.giornaledibrescia.it/bre...progetto-i-dettagli-oggi-in-edicola-1.3194396
http://brescia.corriere.it/notizie/...ti-8c854e2a-79a9-11e7-9488-fb4c3ebc9cd4.shtml
http://www.tuttosport.com/news/calc...alla_sua_offerta_per_il_brescia/?cookieAccept


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## MikkelAndersen

http://www.football-italia.net/107362/serie-a’s-stadium-issues

Serie A’s stadium issues
By Football Italia staff

It was officially confirmed today that Atalanta now own their stadium, and are free to redevelop it, but historically that hasn’t been easy in Italy.

Most grounds in Serie A are owned by local councils rather than the clubs, with many built or redeveloped to host the World Cup in 1990.

After 27 years, many of these arenas are in dire need of modernisation, but clubs have struggled to get projects off the ground.

Turin’s Stadio delle Alpi was built specially for Italia 90, and was initially shared by both Juventus and Torino.

However, a running track around the outside meant the top tribunes were far too far away from the pitch and the wind swirled around the concrete bowl.

Unhappy with the situation, Juve bought the ground from the Turin council in 2003, and finally opened the Juventus Stadium in 2011.



Sassuolo also own their Mapei Stadium, controversially buying the stadium which had traditionally belonged to Reggiana, but taken over by the city after their bankruptcy and refounding.

Udinese took over a 99-year lease of the Stadio Friuli in 2012, and officially opened the redeveloped Dacia Arena in January 2015.

Other clubs have found things even more difficult than Juve did though, with Roma currently battling red tape and political resistance as they look to build an arena of their own.

The Giallorossi aim to build the Stadio della Roma in the Tor di Valle area of the city, with the project launched by American owner James Pallotta after his takeover in 2011.

Several dates were given for breaking ground, but after an initial plan was rejected, and while changes were made and the plans resubmitted, it’s far from clear that the new plans will be approved.

Fiorentina have also submitted plans for a new ground, having first unveiled the project in 2014, but so far there has been precious little progress.

Milan won the right to build a new arena in the Portello area of the city, with the idea that Inter would then take ownership of San Siro.

The Rossoneri soon got into a dispute with Fondazione Fiera, the owners of the land, and then-President Silvio Berlusconi scrapped the idea.

Both Milan clubs are now owned by Chinese investors, who have recognised the need for a solution, but no further plans have been made, save renovations on San Siro for the 2016 Champions League final.



Napoli have fared no better, with President Aurelio De Laurentiis describing the San Paolo as “an absolute toilet”.

The Partenopei patron wants a new 20,000-seater San Paolo which would be “like a theatre”.

However, the city council believe the €20m being offered to buy the existing stadium is not enough, with De Laurentiis declaring “they should give it to me for free, instead they make me pay stratospheric rent”.

Palermo and Cagliari are among the other clubs hoping to construct new stadiums, but Italian red tape has made it supremely difficult for the clubs to modernise their grounds.


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## IThomas

^^
Just a few clarifications.

*AC Fiorentina*
Fiorentina submitted the new project (the one we can see on the official thread) just a few months ago. Meanwhile, club's owners have still to find financial resources. 

*AC Milan ----- FC Inter*
In 2015, Milan won a tender for the refurbishment of Portello area. Former AC Milan CEO, Barbara Berlusconi, presented the project for a new stadium. See video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7VAdSpBnLg.

Former AC Milan President, Silvio Berlusconi, rejected the idea to build it because he was ready to sold the club. Nowadays, Fondazione Fiera -the owners of the land at Portello- are looking for new investors to redevelop the area: there are no more chances to see this particular project built. "Thank God" I would add. AC Milan, however, is in new hands. AC Milan CEO, Marco Fassone, said that property stadium is among top priorities of new owners.

FC Inter said they would like to remain at San Siro and refurbish it. But they have to found an agreement with AC Milan and City of Milan.

So we have just to understand who will leave San Siro for real, because the other option is that AC Milan refurbish it while FC Inter build a new stadium elsewhere.

*AS Roma*
Give a look to official thread http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=969334&page=45

*SSC Napoli*
SSC Napoli President, Aurelio De Laurentiis, knows he will never get Stadio San Paolo for free. Anyway, he can build a new stadium elsewhere. He talked about this "stadium-theater" with 20,000 seats, but no project has been submitted to local authorities so far. So just talk.

*Cagliari Calcio*
Cagliari Calcio already submitted the project of its new stadium and local authorities approved it. In the meantime, they have almost completed the temporary stadium in the parking lots. They use it until that new property stadium is completed. See more here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1894188


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## MikkelAndersen

*SSC Napoli*
SSC Napoli President, Aurelio De Laurentiis, knows he will never get Stadio San Paolo for free. Anyway, he can build a new stadium elsewhere. He talked about this "stadium-theater" with 20,000 seats, but no project has been submitted to local authorities so far. So just talk.

______

Why on earth will Napoli build a 20.000 seater stadium? They should build a 45.000-50.000 seater arena which they can easily sell out.


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## IThomas

Because De Laurentiis is stupid. 
He has money to build a new 50,000 seats stadium. If only...


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## IThomas

*Updates Stadio Vigorito*
Works carried out at Stadio Vigorito (built in 1970s). It is located in Benevento (a town of 60,000 inh).

* Build a new road towards Stadio Vigorito to serve local fans in two sectors of the stadium "Curva Sud" and "Distinti".
* Create new accesses with the installation of turnstiles.
* Improve lighting system.
* Refurbish the "Curva" and "Tribuna" sectors, installation of new chairs, elimination of the barriers.
* Refurbish the Conference Room, Doping Room, Dressing Rooms, Gos Room, etc.
* Construct new SKY TV station and a press room for journalists and photographers.
* Refurbish the turf with a new drainage system.

IMHO, this two-tier stadium has a potential. They might add a roof, a skin on the outside, and implement other works.


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## IThomas

*Updates PalaLido Arena (Milan)*
New indoor area will host volley, basket (small sports clubs), tennis and other minor sports, as well as music concerts.
Capacity: 5,500 seats.








































































link


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## IThomas

*Updates Stadio Enzo Scida*
Works carried out at Stadio Enzo Scida: New stand + roof.
It is located in Crotone (a town of 63,000 inh). The small club adopted a solution similar to Stadio Benito Stirpe (Frosinone FC).


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## OnwardsAndUpwards

Are Bari likely to move to a new stadium? The San Nicola is a wonderful and iconic design. The athletics track and large capacity must make it a less than ideal venue. Bari could surely do much better in a stadium more suited to their needs.


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## IThomas

OnwardsAndUpwards said:


> Are Bari likely to move to a new stadium? The San Nicola is a wonderful and iconic design. The athletics track and large capacity must make it a less than ideal venue. Bari could surely do much better in a stadium more suited to their needs.



I knew that Bari FC drew up a plan to refurbish San Nicola. 
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=140382305&postcount=55
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=140408538&postcount=59

However, I think that another good option would be Stadio della Vittoria (unlike San Nicola, it is close to the city center). 
It was built in 1930s but with a smart redevelopment plan, it may become a beautiful covered stadium with services.


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## IThomas

*MILAN | Stadio Brianteo - Monza Stadium (22,000)*










Stadio Brianteo >>> *Monza Stadium*​
Stadio Brianteo is an old stadium built in 1980s in the municipality of Monza, north Milan (Italy). It is currently used mostly for football matches and is the home ground of SS Monza 1912, the local football team currently playing in Lega Pro (3rd professional football league behind Serie A and Serie B).​


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## IThomas

> The new "Monza Stadium" is expected to be built over the Stadio Brianteo, with a massive plan that will transform everything into a modern multifunctional sports facility that can be used every day of the week with shops, gyms, restaurants, services and more. The new stadium will have a capacity of 22,000 seats at least.
> 
> So far, the Brianteo has been for the municipality only a waste of money, but now the Council would like to leave the keys in other hands. The local football team was recently bought by Colombo family and it seems ready to invest. "The tender will be published in September, and we are very confident. We have already met the owners of SS Monza, they have shown interest for Stadio Brianteo and think about a project" said Sports Councillor, Andrea Arbizzoni.


http://www.ilgiorno.it/monza-brianz...ibune-concessione-calcio-ristoranti-1.3350520


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## Aztex82

That is a cool grandstand. When was it built?


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## Florio

The stadium was completed in 1988


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## alexandru.mircea

I was curious to see how *Benevento*'s stadiums looks like... Turns out it looks much better than I was fearing. However there are three different capacity figures on the English Wikipedia.


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## Bobby3

IThomas said:


> I knew that Bari FC drew up a plan to refurbish San Nicola.
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=140382305&postcount=55
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=140408538&postcount=59
> 
> However, I think that another good option would be Stadio della Vittoria (unlike San Nicola, it is close to the city center).
> It was built in 1930s but with a smart redevelopment plan, it may become a beautiful covered stadium with services.


I agree, that stadium has beautiful bones.


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## IThomas

Frosinone Football Club announced that new Benito Stirpe Stadium will be inaugurated on September 28, 2017 -- 5 PM :cheers:



















pics by Enrico Renzi


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## gazzaa2

Atalanta having to play games in Europe out of Bergamo due to the state of the ground is damning on Serie A.


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## IThomas

^^
There is a new plan for their stadium.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1911927


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## IThomas

We have further news about new Cosenza Stadium (city: Cosenza; region: Calabria, southern Italy). :cheers:



> *Cosenza: Stadium & Village, €37 million investment*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The project requires an investment of 37 million euros. In detail, the new covered stadium (16,000 seats) will have a cost of around 27.5 million, while 9.5 million will be allocated for the so-called "village". The figures are the result of a pre-feasibility study which will be presented on Tuesday in Rome. Nielsen Sports and Savills Larry Smith have helped the local team to conceive the financial plan: analysts underlined how the future revenues can support the plan.
> 
> The project can be realized in three years. Cosenza's new stadium also satisfy the requirements to host UEFA Euro 4 matches. The "modular" stadium can be easily expanded with the addition of a further ring in the case of attendance increase. The fans' square can be used as an open-air auditorium for events open to the city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To the north of the new stadium there will be the "village" with sports facilities, retail areas, a panoramic restaurant, multiplex cinema, services, sports medical center.
> 
> http://www.quotidianodelsud.it/cala...-impianto-16mila-posti-aree-commerciali-tutta


Area:









Old stadium:


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## IThomas

All about Pisa's new stadium >>> see thread http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=2027312
:cheers:


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## IThomas

Fresh updates from Pescara http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=2031965
:banana:


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## OnwardsAndUpwards

Seems like Italian football is going through a big modernisation period. Good to see.


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## IThomas

*Frosinone Calcio inaugurated Stadio Benito Stirpe.*






President of Frosinone Calcio said he was really excited for having realized this project in a year thanks the support of local authorities. 
"There are still some little things to improve, but I am really pleased. Finally, our fans have a new home" he said.

Giovanni Malagò, President of Italian National Olympic Committee, invited football teams trought Italy to do the same. 
"In the past few years, many presidents have preferred to invest money in transfermarkt rather than building a new stadium" Malagò said.
"A good president should not only think about sports results, he must be an entrepreneur with a future vision for his team. 
When there is the will to change, there are no obstacles".


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## rasaerba

Prato (PO) - Stadio Comunale di Via Firenze "LungoBisenzio"
If interested... work in progress at my home stadium (local club will play until next march in Pontedera, due to move the pitch 15 metres in front of Main Covered Stand and.. to wait that grass born!)

From my website... www.soloprato.com ... you can see the demolition of 3 stands in the rail area of the stadium, the built of a end stand for first time in the history of our stadium, and the new away stand.

The only stand that remain the same it's the Main Covered Stand, that hold about 600.
http://www.soloprato.com/storia_stadio.htm with history

http://www.soloprato.com/stadiolungobisenzioprato.htm some interested photos

http://www.soloprato.com/curvaferroviapratomatteoventisette.htm the new end stand, that hold 1636.

http://www.soloprato.com/settoreospitistadio.htm the away stand, 847.

http://www.soloprato.com/demolizionemaratona.htm 1st demolished stand, called MARATONA

http://www.soloprato.com/demolizionecurva.htm 2nd demolished stand, called CURVA FERROVIA

http://www.soloprato.com/demolizionedistinti.htm 3rd demolished stand, called DISTINTI. Now to leave only the asbestos cover


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## Axelferis

who are those rappers chanting?


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## makkillottu

^^

Recent winners of Italian X Factor...


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## IThomas

*Ferrara and Cannavaro invest in Naples*










Former football players, Ciro Ferrara and Fabio Cannavaro, invest in the city of Naples. Inaugurated in 1929, the old Stadio Collana (12,000 seats) will get a 7 million euro restyling. Works will last 18 months. Nike was chosen as the main sponsorship.










Ferrara and Cannavaro presented the project this morning, saying that with this investment they hope to give back the sports plant to the young football lovers living in this area of the city. They also reiterated the idea to create an academy.













































http://www.diariopartenopeo.it/team...progetto-presentato-dalla-giano/#.WdQNtGjWzIU


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## MikkelAndersen

https://www.thesportsman.com/articles/frosinone-ahead-of-italys-giants-with-creation-of-new-stadium

Frosinone Ahead Of Italy's Giants With Creation Of New Stadium

It would be easy to overlook a small Italian side named Frosinone. Located in the Lazio region, just 47 miles south-east of Rome, the Canarini (Canaries) have enjoyed just one season in Serie A throughout their entire history. Perhaps their most famous moment during the 2015/16 campaign was when – after having lost all four of their opening fixtures – Leonardo Blanchard scored a last minute header to earn them a shock 1-1 draw at Juventus stadium.

To put that result into context, Juventus have won every league game at home since then except for one match versus Torino in May 2017, when the derby visitors also came away with a 1-1 draw. The minnows, therefore, did what the likes of Milan, Inter, Roma and Napoli could not and they have again repeated that feat with the opening of their new stadium at the end of September.

With Italian Minister of Sport Luca Lotti present, Frosinone inaugurated their new, club-owned Stadio Benito Stirpe, and it truly was something for them to be proud of. The Serie B side are now one of an exclusive group of four clubs on the peninsula – along with Juventus, Sassuolo and Udinese – to own the rights to their own stadium, with the rest rented from the council.

This means that even the likes of Milan and Inter pay rent to the city for use of the mammoth San Siro, and miss out on the wealth of profits available. To highlight this, the Deloitte Football Money League report for 2017 reveals that three out of four Italian clubs are in the bottom quartile of the featured top 20 clubs for matchday revenue. The only one that isn’t? Juventus.

Whilst the club-owned Allianz stadium saw Juve earn €43.7 million in matchday profits during 2016, whilst at the much higher capacity San Siro, Milan and Inter recouped just €25.9 million and €25.7 million respectively. Deloitte predicts that pair will drop out of the top 20 altogether in 2018 with the new Premier League TV broadcast deals in place. That is surely not good news for Italian football, especially with the cross-city rivals both looking to re-establish themselves on the European stage.

But back to Frosinone. The failings of big clubs in Italy and the recent success of Juventus only serve to highlight just how forward-thinking this Serie B side are. Having made the leap to build their own 16,000 seater home at a cost of €20 million, they are now free from the constraints of local government bureaucracy and eventual profit levels will be uncapped.

The Benito Stirpe – named after the father of Frosinone president Maurizio and built in just 15 months – is equipped with 16 boxes plus nine Sky boxes, modern hospitality and press areas, a restaurant, two bars, a merchandising area and a commercial centre. All of these additions allow the club to maximise their revenue, but perhaps most important of all is the fact that the stadium already meets UEFA regulations.

We have seen already this year that small clubs such as Atalanta have fallen foul of this, as after defying all the odds to reach European competition, the Bergamo-based outfit have been forced to play their Europa League home matches 120 miles away in the Mapei stadium belonging to Sassuolo. Atalanta too, have just purchased the rights to their stadium but the development will take several years to complete.

"This stadium is a jewel, it should be taken and copied throughout Italy, except for the big cities,” sports minister Lotta told the press at the inauguration. “This is the reference model in Spain, Portugal, France, Germany and England. If many presidents have not thought about doing what Stirpe did, it's because they preferred to invest in nineteen new players when there was money available instead of thinking about a new home."

Frosinone are currently joint top in the Serie B standings, but the prospect of Europe is still a long way off for them. Still, it is this kind of forward thinking that could see them overtake many others around them, and puts this small club in the modern era when so many of Italy’s giants are lagging behind.

___________

If Frosinone can construct a 16.000 seater stadium for 20 mill. I don't get why the likes of Napoli, Fiorentina, Lazio etc cannot construct a 35.000-50.000 seater stadium for 80-100 mill? Not to mention the Milan clubs (and Roma). Juve paid 120 mill for their 41.500 seater stadium with naming rights worth more than half of it.


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## MikkelAndersen

https://www.thestadiumbusiness.com/...ill-present-stadium-opportunity-italy-malago/

Giovanni Malagò, president of the Italian National Olympic Committee (CONI), has said that hosting football’s UEFA European Championships in 2028 would provide a boost to stadium development in the country.

Italy is considering submitting a bid for the event, which would be the first major national team tournament to be staged in the country since the 1990 FIFA World Cup.

Euro 2028 is the next edition of the tournament available to bid for after Germany 

was last month awarded hosting rights for the 2024 tournament. France hosted the most recent edition in 2016, while the 2020 tournament will be held at stadia across Europe – including Rome’s Stadio Olimpico (pictured) – to mark its 60th anniversary.

Italy submitted a bid to host Euro 2012 but ultimately lost out to a joint proposal from Poland and Ukraine. Italy has hosted the European Championships twice before, in 1968 and 1980.

Malagò said, according to Italian news agency Ansa: “Italy’s bid to host the 2028 European Championships is the objective with a capital O … It is the only chance with the World Cup and the Olympics to have an acceleration … concerning the issue of the stadiums.”

The Stadio Olimpico will host three group-stage matches and a quarter-final during Euro 2020.

_________

Italy need one 60.000 stadium, two 50.000 seater stadiums, three 40.000 seater stadium and four 30.000 seater stadium to host the tournament.
With San Siro 80.000 and Allianz Arena 41.507 there we got two modern stadiums.
If Roma and Napoli build 50.000 seater stadiums, Fiorentina and Lazio build 40.000 seater stadium - we just need four 30.000 stadiums. Cities like e.g. Palermo, Genoa, Bologna should be able to construct 30.000 seater stadiums.
(Perhaps one of the Milan clubs could leave San Siro and build their own 60.000 seater stadium)


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## MikkelAndersen

https://www.besoccer.com/new/serie-a-is-behind-in-terms-of-stadiums-not-technically-ancelotti-527421

Carlo Ancelotti has slammed the state of infrastructure in Italian football, calling stadiums "unsuitable" and inferior compared to those in the rest of Europe's top leagues.

The Napoli manager was asked about the state of the Stadio San Paolo, his side's home ground, on Friday.

Large sections of the stadium are currently closed due to being unsafe structurally, and it has been open for 70 years.

"“Italy is behind in terms of structures, not technically," Ancelotti confirmed.

“We don’t have any huge talents, but I don’t think we have a technical problem, we have good players like [Lorenzo] Insigne, [Nicolò] Barella, and [Federico] Bernardeschi, and others just below that like [Alex] Meret who is a goalkeeper with a great future.

“We are behind in terms of stadiums, people don’t go to the stadium. In Europe it’s different, people go to the stadium and spend time there.

"There are restaurants and attractions and you can spend a day with your family.”

Ancelotti was also asked about the atmosphere between clubs in Italy.

"In Italy rivalry has been transformed into insults and rudeness. Nowadays we’re the only country, there’s a huge rivalry between Real Madrid and Barcelona but they never cross the line.

"In Italy we always do. We should lower the tone and make stadiums suitable for families.”


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## Guest

> "In Italy rivalry has been transformed into insults and rudeness. Nowadays we’re the only country, there’s a huge rivalry between Real Madrid and Barcelona but they never cross the line.


Lol yeah right...


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## MikkelAndersen

https://www.football-italia.net/135191/infantino-italy-behind-gabon-stadiums

FIFA President Gianni Infantino warns “Italy are today behind Gabon when it comes to stadiums. It’s incredible that only Udinese and Juventus own their arenas.”

Infantino spoke to Rai Sport about the problems affecting Italian football and gave a damning indictment.

“The situation with stadiums in Italy goes beyond all logic. This is a country that has incredible passion and culture for football. Yet today Italy are behind Gabon, who organised the most recent Africa Cup of Nations, when it comes to stadiums.

“It’s incredible to see that only Udinese and Juventus own their arenas. A stadium is not just an expense, but above all an investment.”

This is not through want of trying, as Roma have been fighting for years to get permission for their Stadio Della Roma project, continually pushed back by the local authorities.

Napoli, Lazio and Fiorentina are also among the clubs who have seen their projects caught up in red tape for years, even decades.

__________

Unfortunately the politicians in Italy are incompetent, greedy and quite often corrupt. They don't want new stadiums. Better become a Mickey Mouse league with no money than giving up rent for outdated stadiums. What a farce.


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## Pierpo

MikkelAndersen said:


> https://www.football-italia.net/135191/infantino-italy-behind-gabon-stadiums
> __________
> 
> Unfortunately the politicians in Italy are incompetent, greedy and quite often corrupt. They don't want new stadiums. Better become a Mickey Mouse league with no money than giving up rent for outdated stadiums. What a farce.


I definitely don't want to praise italian politicians, but your definition sticks perfectly to FIFA/UEFA and all other continental football federations and I am talking about facts proven in many circustamces.

Moreover Infantino, from his point of view, may well deem Italy behind Gabon regarding stadiums.
Luckily enough no italian would switch nationalities with Gabon just because of that.
Let's say that, with all the due respect of Infantino, priorities in governing a 60 million persons modern country may differ from building stadiums.
I am not saying we are doing well at it, especially now, but still building new stadium privately owned won't get us anyhow better.

Anyway what infantino states is fake by any point of view.
Gabon hosted the 2017 African Cup of Nations in 4 stadiums; one of 40.000 capacity the other three ranging from 20.000 to 26.000.
Only 2 of them were built for the Cup and 3 of them have athletic tracks around the pitch.
I wonder which Gabon team may sustain those capacities with the domestic championship (Gabon has 1.9 million population and many of them are poor).
In Italy only in Serie A we have 3 top class stadiums like Olimpico, San Siro and Juventus Stadium.
Then above the highest capacity stadium in Gabon we have at least 10 stadiums.
If we are considering the 20.000 seats of the 4 new stadiums of Gabon, we have 36 stadiums in italy. Most of them, even if older than Gabon ones, are much better.
You can easily check here; https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadi_italiani_per_capienza

I refrain to say that Infantino probably confused private owned stadiums with state/municipality stadiums, because all Gabon stadiums are owned by the State.
He is also wrong because Frosinone and Sassuolo, both Serie A teams, own their stadium. So not only Juventus and Udinese.

Talking seriously there are many technical reasons behind the current italian situation.
First of all there's no real will from club to invest in a stadium.
Those that really wanted to, they did it or are about to do.
Bologna, Fiorentina, Cagliari, Venezia, Atalanta Bergamo when they finally and seriously decided, are about to build their own stadium.
The only exception is Roma, but this has more to do with political parties and eventually it seems they have received their approval.

On the other hand, stadium are own by municipality and most clubs are ok with that.
This gives a steadily income to local municipalities while clubs are de facto owners.
There could be some conflict on particular issues, but once again if a club is decided and seriously interested they'll find a way to build a stadium.

Even in Italy, even if we are not Gabon...


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## makkillottu

^^

Completely agree.

In the last 5 years we've seen some movement and progress in Italy, that's a proof that - even if slowly - situation is evolving better and better.

Frosinone, SPAL, Sassuolo, Juventus and Udinese did an excellent job with their operations, it's wonderful to see the international feed on Greek TV!
Bergamo is working hard to start demolitions in Spring, but also Roma seems in final negotiations for getting its green light to start the "Stadio della Roma" construction.
Even Cagliari did an overall good job with its temporary Sardegna Arena (and what a temporary)! Except the scaffolds in the cheap stands and ends, I went for Cagliari-Chievo during my last holidays in Sardinia and visited the Main Stand's museum and lounge... it's actually what you can find in an average UK stadium, so not that bad until the new stadium will be built.

The Government needs to look to more complex situations than the Italian football, but have to say that Football too is not standing. Something's moving on out there...


----------



## Florio

Apart this, in Italy there are some stadiums that are not perfect for football, but are good stadiums, like Artemio Franchi (Florence), Olympic stadium of Turin or others. Or good stadiums wich are public like Marassi (Genoa) or La Favorita (Palermo).


----------



## petschovschi

Pierpo said:


> In Italy only in Serie A we have 3 top class stadiums like Olimpico, San Siro and Juventus Stadium


I agree that you can't compare Italy with Gabon.
On the other hand, I have to say that San Siro is far away to be a top class stadium. Yes, it's a high capacity stadium but no way a top class stadium. That stadium needs to be refurbished.
More or less, I can say the same thing about Olimpico (athletic track, ~ 70.000 seats without a metro station in proximity).

One shouldn't compare Italy with Gabon. Italy should be compared with England, Germany, France, Spain, etc.


----------



## makkillottu

petschovschi said:


> On the other hand, I have to say that San Siro is far away to be a top class stadium. Yes, it's a high capacity stadium but no way a top class stadium. That stadium needs to be refurbished.


Maybe visually it might not be fantastic, but it's a top class stadium. It's a UEFA stadium Category 4.


----------



## Pierpo

petschovschi said:


> I agree that you can't compare Italy with Gabon.
> On the other hand, I have to say that San Siro is far away to be a top class stadium. Yes, it's a high capacity stadium but no way a top class stadium. That stadium needs to be refurbished.
> More or less, I can say the same thing about Olimpico (athletic track, ~ 70.000 seats without a metro station in proximity).
> 
> One shouldn't compare Italy with Gabon. Italy should be compared with England, Germany, France, Spain, etc.



Oh please!
I am simply fed up with all the misinformation and complaining on Italy.
This is not only limited to football stadiums, but also regarding economy and many other KPIs.


Now even FIFA President feels entitled to compare Italy to Gabon in a press conference held in Italy while nobody in the room asks for clarification, at least for avoiding to say that this comparison is completely false!
Both your statements "San Siro is far away to be a top class stadium. Yes, it's a high capacity stadium but no way a top class stadium." and " the same thing about Olimpico (athletic track, ~ 70.000 seats without a metro station in proximity)." are FALSE!


Based on the facts, they both hosted major UEFA events, and based on the UEFA rating in which they both have received maximun ranking.
While the official list is kept secret, here is the most recent list available.

http://stadiumdb.com/lists/uefa-5-star-stadiums


Should we compare to other european countries?
Well, Italy has got at least 2 (San Siro and Olimpico).


According to those criteria like 60.000+ seats, International airport and hotel facilities and so on;
- Spain has 3; 2 in Madrid (one brand new) other in Barcelona.
- England has 4; Olympic, Wembley, Arsenal (just for a few seats) and Old Trafford Manchester.
- Germany has 2; Olympiastadium in Berlin (hardly used at top capacity) and Allianz Munich. Dortmund, Stuttgart and Shalke do not qualify for airports and hospitality.
- France 1, Stade de France, maybe 2 with new Velodrome but not sure about facility in Marseille.


We can say that Italy has got a stadium problem in the middle and lower tier teams for various reasons I am happy to discuss seriously.


But we cannot say San Siro and Olimpico are not top class stadiums.
Fair play please!


----------



## petschovschi

^^

According to UEFA guideline regarding stadiums, it doesn't exist anymore a classification with stars. We don't have 5 stars stadiums. You should know that. Actual classification of stadiums is based on categories, from 1 to 4.
https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFile...ium&Security/01/48/48/85/1484885_DOWNLOAD.pdf

Otherwise, please tell me, did you ever attend a game on Wembley, Stade de France or Krestovsky ? Only after that you can talk about "top-class" stadiums.

Btw, about San Siro I remember the dirty walls and the smell of ... . Also, the seat size is reduced comparing with other stadiums (same fot the quality of the seats). High capacity doesn't mean, automatically, a top class stadium. Yes, San Siro is a legend, no doubt about that, but it's an old stadium and should be seriously refurbished


----------



## Pierpo

^^


I perfectly know that, I just didn't want to put all that dossier on the table.


Anyway you look at that, actually San Siro and Olimpico are 4 star stadiums too!
Even according to the newest standards.
That's a fact!
That's is what we are discussing here.



Olimpico was recently refurbished, and San Siro has one of best pitch views in the world and is about to implement new upgrades.


Said that, you can have a personal opinion on San Siro, as well as other matters.
The top ranking of the European football governing body still remains.


By the way, I have been traveling a lot in stadiums, and this is my PERSONAL judgement in the top notch ones I have visited.


San Siro, is like a living room, you have a wonderful pitch view from almost any seat (some issue on some third level seats).
Its shape is also iconic and world recognizible.


Olimpico Rome, is a masterpiece of architecture.
Seems like a modern day coliseum.
Unfortunately the tracks around the pitch and the slow degrading stands make the view difficult for football, almost impossible for rugby.
It has also some problem with the sun directly in your eyes in certain times if you are in Tevere Main Stand.



I have been in Stade de France 3 times, the pitch view is good only in selected and expensive seats.


Regarding smells, I hope you'll never go anywhere near the toilets in Wembley. It is a quite dangerous practice too, as it seems that pushing ritmically the crowd in the stadium aisles is kind of funny in british stadiums.


Santiago Bernabeu is definitely intimate, despite huge. One of my best experience so far.


I would never exchange San Siro or Olimpico with Camp Nou, maybe I was unlucky it was a rainy day but a top class stadium should be 100% covered for me.


I have been in Velodrome before the revamping and it has been a tragedy.
32 degrees on cemented seats...


Never been in Krestovsky yet, but hey, it costed 700 millions €! 

No return on investment for that, it's just a showcase of Russia opulence.
They could also put platinum armchairs in it. That doesn't set a standard for modern and sustainable stadiums.


Olympiastadium in Berlin is not so good for the view but the stadium itself is very beautiful.


----------



## petschovschi

https://www.calcioefinanza.it/2019/03/04/nuovo-stadio-san-siro-progetto-milan-inter/

It seems that both Milan and Inter want a new stadium (~60.000). Naming rights should be ~25 mil/y (not San Siro anymore). Actual stadium will be demolished.


----------



## ElvisBC

petschovschi said:


> ^^
> 
> According to UEFA guideline regarding stadiums, it doesn't exist anymore a classification with stars. We don't have 5 stars stadiums. You should know that. Actual classification of stadiums is based on categories, from 1 to 4.
> https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFile...ium&Security/01/48/48/85/1484885_DOWNLOAD.pdf
> 
> Otherwise, please tell me, did you ever attend a game on Wembley, Stade de France or Krestovsky ? Only after that you can talk about "top-class" stadiums.
> 
> Btw, about San Siro I remember the dirty walls and the smell of ... . Also, the seat size is reduced comparing with other stadiums (same fot the quality of the seats). High capacity doesn't mean, automatically, a top class stadium. Yes, San Siro is a legend, no doubt about that, but it's an old stadium and should be seriously refurbished





Pierpo said:


> ^^
> 
> 
> I perfectly know that, I just didn't want to put all that dossier on the table.
> 
> 
> Anyway you look at that, actually San Siro and Olimpico are 4 star stadiums too!
> Even according to the newest standards.
> That's a fact!
> That's is what we are discussing here.
> 
> 
> 
> Olimpico was recently refurbished, and San Siro has one of best pitch views in the world and is about to implement new upgrades.
> 
> 
> Said that, you can have a personal opinion on San Siro, as well as other matters.
> The top ranking of the European football governing body still remains.
> 
> 
> By the way, I have been traveling a lot in stadiums, and this is my PERSONAL judgement in the top notch ones I have visited.
> 
> 
> San Siro, is like a living room, you have a wonderful pitch view from almost any seat (some issue on some third level seats).
> Its shape is also iconic and world recognizible.
> 
> 
> Olimpico Rome, is a masterpiece of architecture.
> Seems like a modern day coliseum.
> Unfortunately the tracks around the pitch and the slow degrading stands make the view difficult for football, almost impossible for rugby.
> It has also some problem with the sun directly in your eyes in certain times if you are in Tevere Main Stand.
> 
> 
> 
> I have been in Stade de France 3 times, the pitch view is good only in selected and expensive seats.
> 
> 
> Regarding smells, I hope you'll never go anywhere near the toilets in Wembley. It is a quite dangerous practice too, as it seems that pushing ritmically the crowd in the stadium aisles is kind of funny in british stadiums.
> 
> 
> Santiago Bernabeu is definitely intimate, despite huge. One of my best experience so far.
> 
> 
> I would never exchange San Siro or Olimpico with Camp Nou, maybe I was unlucky it was a rainy day but a top class stadium should be 100% covered for me.
> 
> 
> I have been in Velodrome before the revamping and it has been a tragedy.
> 32 degrees on cemented seats...
> 
> 
> Never been in Krestovsky yet, but hey, it costed 700 millions €!
> 
> No return on investment for that, it's just a showcase of Russia opulence.
> They could also put platinum armchairs in it. That doesn't set a standard for modern and sustainable stadiums.
> 
> 
> Olympiastadium in Berlin is not so good for the view but the stadium itself is very beautiful.


both legit views. 

some stadiums definitely need an overhaul, camp nou is the best example. san siro offers one of the best viewing experiences in the world and is recognizable from the space, but it is old and it definitely needs some sensitive touch. but for gods sake not as a new built house. (IMHO) demolition of old wembley was a crime, same as maracana rebuild. doing simmilar thing to san siro would be crime as well. 

bernabeu has the best possible viewing experience, unmatched in the world, but I am sure it could get serious upgrade by adding whatever is missing (outside of the stands) compared to the newest arenas of the world, such as zenith stadium mentioned here or modern US stadiums. 

best example of great reconstruction is luzhniki, very smart people did that. now it offers perfect viewing experience as well as everythig else needed and not needed in a modern stadium. I am sure san siro might offer the same if done correctly!


----------



## gincan

Pierpo said:


> building new stadium privately owned won't get us anyhow better.


Since building the new stadium, Juventus has dominated Serie A like no club in the history of the championship. There is a clear correlation between Juventus owning their stadium and the financials of the club improving to the point of totally destroying the competitive nature of serie A.

It is not at all unresonable to think that unless other clubs can build their own stadiums to improve their financial results, Juventus will win Serie A for the next 20-30 years straight as a result of their total financial domination of Italian club football.

Clubs like AC Milan and Internazionale loose every year well over 100 million euros by not owning their stadium, that is a huge competitive disadvantage and the main reason neither of them has been able to compete for the top players on the transfer market since at least 15 years back.


----------



## Pierpo

gincan said:


> Since building the new stadium, Juventus has dominated Serie A like no club in the history of the championship. There is a clear correlation between Juventus owning their stadium and the financials of the club improving to the point of totally destroying the competitive nature of serie A.
> 
> It is not at all unresonable to think that unless other clubs can build their own stadiums to improve their financial results, Juventus will win Serie A for the next 20-30 years straight as a result of their total financial domination of Italian club football.
> 
> Clubs like AC Milan and Internazionale loose every year well over 100 million euros by not owning their stadium, that is a huge competitive disadvantage and the main reason neither of them has been able to compete for the top players on the transfer market since at least 15 years back.



I was referring to italian population, in comparison with Gabon.
Privately owned stadium can do the difference for clubs.


There another thread in SSC in which I have highlighted that building a new stadium should be approached wisely regarding budget, capacity and iconicity.


I put some example, Arsenal has skyrocketed its matchday revenues but it didn't win a single trophy for a decade right after building its new Emirates Stadium.
Before the new stadium it was a dominant and winning powerhouse in the Premier League.

Stadium costs simply have reduded its competitiveness in the short-mid period.


Same thing is happening now with Tottenham, still they don't know when they'll play in their new home.
London Stadium for West Ham is a cost nightmare and so on.


Juventus Stadium is only 41.000 capacity and was considered a huge investment at that time.



A low to mid tier stadium can be built ranging from 40 to 120 millions €.
Atalanta, Cagliari, Frosinone and other clubs have spent around that amount.

A top club stadium cost is around 300 million €, As Roma is about that budget.
This is the limit for potential and safe Return On Investment.


Above that threshold you climb up the way for iconic stadium like Zenith, Wanda Metropolitano.
Camp Nou and Santiago Bernabeu revamping are about that scale.


In Italy I don't think that any single team could afford that.
That is why Milan and Inter are coupling to build a stadium together.


----------



## gincan

Pierpo said:


> There another thread in SSC in which I have highlighted that building a new stadium should be approached wisely regarding budget, capacity and iconicity.
> 
> I put some example, Arsenal has skyrocketed its matchday revenues but it didn't win a single trophy for a decade right after building its new Emirates Stadium.


This is an owner cuestion and has nothing to do with having a new stadium, for the first 10 years after building Emirates, the owners choose to pocket the money rather than investing in the team, comparing revenue to player signings, Arsenal was rock bottom in the Premier League for years.

The fact that Inter and AC Milan both have less than 1/4 the matchday revenue of Real Madrid or FC Barcelona despite having a similar sized stadium, really says everything, both these clubs have in the past had seasonal average attendances comparable to and even higher than Real Madrid and FC Barcelona. The pathetic commercial revenue both italian clubs generate compared to the two spanish clubs is also directly tied to stadium ownership to a large degree. Inter generate less than 1/3 the commercial revenue that FC Barcelona generate, AC Milan is even worse.

In 1990s i remember Inter and AC Milan outspending clubs like Real Madrid or FC Barcelona in the transfer market when the Italian league had a much better TV deal. They used to be in the top 5 of the money league, now both are falling outside of the top 20 clubs in Europe.

The fact of the matter is that Italian clubs all are desperate to build and own their stadiums, but because of Italian bureaucracy and corruption, it is practically impossible and every year the comunale stadiums are getting older and older and more and more outdated.


----------



## Pierpo

^^


I think most of your points are reasonable but I think that the decline of italian Serie A and its clubs has been more due to bad management than "bureaucracy and corruption".


Let's talk frankly why the italian stadium situation is the way it is now.



The most recent general upgrades for the stadiums has been for the 1990 World Cup that unfortunately and incidentally has been the last of the older generations of stadiums (big capacity, seats very close one to another, low level services and catering). 

Stade de France for instance was built only 6 years later with a total different approach.


Many stadiums in Italy, for bizzarre regulations, needed to have athletic tracks on site in order to get CONI (Italian Olympic Committee) funding.
So Delle Alpi Turin (now Juventus Stadium), Bentegodi Verona, San Nicola Bari, Dall'Ara Bologna, Franchi Firenze, Friuli Udine, San Paolo Napoli and so on, had to keep the existing track or to be built with that.
Stadio Olimpico Rome was probably the only one to justify the track, as venue for Golden Gala and athletic races.


For the '90 and early 2000 italian Serie A was still competitive for TV rights especially because new media and international TV rights were not so dominant.
The italian clubs relied a lot on those TV rights and underestimated the potentialities of other source of revenue like owned stadiums.
In commercial revenue, the traditional and only source of business has been shirt sponsorship and the pocket money of the team's owner.
For instance counterfeit shirts and gadget were widely present even at the front door of the stadium and only in recent years have been fought.


Until 2011 almost any stadium in Italy was privately owned but the clubs were paying a very little fee for being de facto owner.
They didn't have any interest in investing in new facility, they were not the owners and they were receiving lots of money from TV. Municipalities on the other side were just happy of the steadily income from an infrastructure no other team could mantain.



Then around 2005-2006 the perfect storm arrives.
New media and foreign TV rights explode and therefore new source of revenues come to british and spanish clubs, favourited from their languages and cultural connections in USA, Northern Europe, South America and Asia.
Juventus is relegated, many clubs fined.
Many team owners struggled to cope with the more globalised world in football and things were not as easy as in the past.
Milan, Inter, Roma and many other minor teams changed ownership and that stopped any serious expansion plan for a while.

This was the real year 0 of the italian football.


From then on, things are finally blooming.
Juventus, Sassuolo, Frosinone and Udinese own their stadium.
In 5 years time there will be Cagliari, Atalanta, Venezia for sure.
With a certain grade of safety then there will be Milan and Inter together, Fiorentina, Roma and Empoli.


This means that no bureaucracy or corruption prevented italian clubs from having their own stadiums.
It was just convenience and short sighted management that in many cases is now overtaken.


----------



## IThomas

^^
Good post, Pierpo. You forgot Bologna


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## IThomas

*The mayor of Pordenone hopes to see privates investing in a new stadium for his town, home of the Pordenone Calcio*, and whose main rivals in Friuli Venezia Giulia region are US Triestina (Stadio Nereo Rocco) and Udinese Calcio (that recently completed its Friuli Stadium/Dacia Arena). 

In an interview with Pordenone Oggi newspaper, the Mayor said: "We need to lay the foundations to foster the construction of a new stadium in Pordenone. An entrepreneurial project carried out with private funds, to which the Municipality will guarantee the necessary infrastructures". 

"In agreement with the President of Pordenone Calcio, we decided to start the negotiations once we are sure that the club is promoted into the Serie B (Italy's second-highest football division), but the road seems to be that". "It doesn't matter if the Black&Greens will play in Udine, pro tempore, even for a couple of football seasons. The most important thing is that they will have their new stadium at end".

https://www.tuttomercatoweb.com/ser...avorire-la-nascita-di-un-nuovo-stadio-1224672


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## MikkelAndersen

I agree with Gincan.


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## IThomas

*Perugia: Stadio Renato Curi could get a makeover*

Stadio Renato Curi, located in the city of Perugia (Umbria region, central Italy), was opened in 1975. The current stadium capacity amounts to 23,625 seats.






Corriere dell'Umbria newspaper has reported that the local football team, A.C. Perugia Calcio, has commissioned a refurbishment project to Mapa Architetti Associati. The Mayor of Perugia is trying, instead, to get 20 million euros from Cassa Depositi e Prestiti (Italy's public investment bank). This seem to be the estimated figure to implement the work. The project, in addition to a total aesthetic change and the addition of a roof, includes spaces and services present in every modern stadium.


----------



## Pierpo

^^
Will it be the end of the infamous girder right in the main stand?
:lol:

http://www.orvietosport.it/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/DSCF2256.jpg


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## Temporarily Exiled

Napoli are a good team, but my is their stadium poor. No wonder English football does better with TV audiences when this is what viewers in other countries see from one of the top teams.


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## Florio

Agree.


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## IThomas

*Updates "PalaLido Arena" (renamed "Allianz Cloud"), Milan
capacity: 5,138*

The new arena will be completed in the next weeks. The first event to being hosted is the FIVB Volleyball Nations League 2019 (in Milan from 21th to 23th June), with matches involving the national teams of Italy, Poland, Argentina and Serbia.

The Municipality of Milan has invested 18 million euros to build the sports venue. German insurance group Allianz, according to a contract signed with the Municipality, is paying 2 million euros to get the sponsorship rights for the next five years. The arena will also be the new home ground of the local team Powervolley Milano (Men's Volleyball League Serie A1).


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## IThomas

edit


----------



## MikkelAndersen

Though I love Italy as a country I am puzzled as to why the politicians are so incompetent and backwards:bash:


----------



## MikkelAndersen

Though I love Italy as a country I am puzzled as to why the politicians are so incompetent and backwards thinking. Here are three stories coming from Italy within 24 hours and at the same time Serie A teams crumble in Europe while other leagues build infrastructure and perform on the field.
____________________

Uva: 'Italy wouldn't get Euro 2028'
By Football Italia staff

UEFA vice-president Michele Uva warns Italy have very little chance of winning the hosting rights to Euro 2028 and must sort out their stadiums.

“The issue of stadiums is a big problem,” Uva told Sportitalia.

“I hear talk of Italy’s candidacy for Euro 2028 hosts as the panacea to all ills, but in order to win the hosting rights, you need to have plans all ready to go.

“There are important stadiums that have been in a gestation period for four or five years and Europe is clearly observing. If they should end up with a competitor for the hosting rights that already have stadiums ready, then evidently that country would have the advantage.

“In my view, at this moment the conditions just aren’t there for Italy to be the candidates for Euro 2028. UEFA see Italy as one of the pillars of the European football system. Serie A is a reference point for its history and current form.

“However, seeing some stadiums half-empty in the last few rounds of the season does not reflect well.”

Most of the arenas in Italy have not been upgraded since they hosted the 1990 World Cup, with clubs including Roma, Napoli and Venezia openly battling the local councils to get new structures built, or at least the current stadiums reworked.

Others have succeeded in striking deals for 99-year leases on the grounds, including Juventus, Udinese, Cagliari and Atalanta.

Italy will host the European Under-21 Championship this summer, with the host venues the Stadio Renato Dall’Ara (Bologna), Mapei Stadium (Sassuolo/Reggio-Emilia), Stadio Dino Manuzzi (Cesena), Stadio Nereo Rocco (Trieste), Dacia Arena (Udine) and San Marino Stadium (San Marino).

_________________

Pallotta: 'Roma must demand stadium'
By Football Italia staff

Roma President James Pallotta called for fans to “demand action” after city officials refused to even meet for the Stadio della Roma project.

This evening, Pallotta posted a message via the official Roma website.

“Stadium Update: Sent senior stadium staff from Boston to Rome hoping to make progress but city officials were too busy to meet.

“Maybe new stadium, big investment & lots of new jobs in Rome is not that important. If fans want a new stadium, they need to demand action.”

It is a real change of tack from Pallotta, who had said at the Sports Decision Makers Summit in Miami only a few days ago that “we hope to have approvals wrapped up by June and then to open the stadium in mid-2022.”

The issue hit another massive obstacle when a corruption scandal involving one of the many people who gave the all-clear to the plans prompted calls to cancel all his votes.

There is growing dissent within the local council about whether helping Roma to build a new stadium is in the public interest at all.

The arena has been planned since the moment he took over the club, but looks no closer to completion, as after several years of debates over the location, cost and requirements of the structure, it could all got back to the drawing board.

____________

Concerns over San Siro safety?
By Football Italia staff

There are concerns over San Siro’s long-term structure after more oscillations and even rubble falling.

According to Gazzetta dello Sport, the top tier wobbled again during Inter’s 1-1 draw with Juventus in the Derby d’Italia on April 27.

The newspaper adds the fire brigade had to intervene after rubble fell, forcing several families to leave the game early.

For now, the stadium would still be considered ‘safe’ and ‘not at risk of collapse’, but it is constantly monitored and has been the subject of a study ‘for over 10 years’.

It comes at a time when Inter and Milan are working on plans to demolish San Siro and replace it with a new, 60,000-seater stadium.

_________

Even Juventus with a brand new stadium is hurt by this because the best players see Serie A as a stepping stone to other leagues. 
Inter and Milan need a new 60.000 seater stadium
Roma and Napoli need a new 45.000-50.000 seater stadium
Lazio and Fiorentina need a new 40.000-45.000 seater stadium.
The stadiums need to be at least 3/4 full.


----------



## IThomas

The case of AS Roma is "exceptional", both for the story itself (including the corruption scandal) and because Rome is not experiencing a "happy" period. As for the other cases, I would not justify the owners of the clubs. The proponent who really has the money to invest and want to build its property stadium can do so. Juventus, Udinese, Frosinone and now Atalanta, have shown that things can be done. Clubs such as Fiorentina hide themselves behind stupid alibis putting their projects in stand-by. Napoli? The owner is an egocentric fool and doesn't want to invest (San Paolo renovation or new stadium? No, in any case). Milan and Inter have still not submitted a premilinary project to the Municipality, but rumors said they will do it in the next weeks (we'll see). Then we have teams such as Venezia, Bologna, Cagliari that have found great collaboration from local administrators. So, in reality it's not a "political" thing for all. The Italian Football Federation should force Serie A clubs to act instead to sleep or just talk.


----------



## Andy380

MikkelAndersen said:


> The issue hit another massive obstacle when a corruption scandal involving one of the many people who gave the all-clear to the plans prompted calls to cancel all his votes.
> 
> There is growing dissent within the local council about whether helping Roma to build a new stadium is in the public interest at all.
> 
> The arena has been planned since the moment he took over the club, but looks no closer to completion, as after several years of debates over the location, cost and requirements of the structure, it could all got back to the drawing board.


Wrong.

Wrong.

Wrong.

Next meeting on Monday to discuss the final agreement proposed by AS Roma that has to be voted with the urban plan variation.


----------



## gazzaa2

Palotta must wish he'd put his money into an English club. How can you get a return on your investment with such backwards attitudes?


----------



## Pierpo

gazzaa2 said:


> Palotta must wish he'd put his money into an English club. How can you get a return on your investment with such backwards attitudes?



It basically depends on the amount of return on the amount of the investment...


As Roma when Pallotta bought it was in precarious conditions financially.
It was de facto owned by banks that no longer wanted it as an asset.


Recent news have stated the Pallotta has invested in As Roma 250 millions € in 8 years, since 2012.
In this estimate the effective amount for As Roma stakes are around 90 - 100 millions, while the remaining has been capital injection into the club finances.
In the meanwhile he has definitely benefited from player trading (Allison, Salah and so on...).
Not to mention, the 90 millions € in Champions League prizes of the last season ended in semi-final.



His long term objective is to sell As Roma brand worldwide and has already started to do so for instance in social media is one of the most active italian football clubs.
The potential to do so, with the "history" of Rome and the epic of its heritage and awareness around the world is undisputable.
In every corner of the world people know or at least have an idea of Rome (talking historically) and what it is.
Bonding that to the As Roma team will be a perfect for storytelling and expanding its brand.


Something similar, in little and with the due differences, has been made by Joe Tacopina, for Venezia Calcio.
Everybody knows the city, millions of tourists passing by and so on.


Similarities with Venezia Calcio and As Roma are also on the will to build owned stadiums to further enhance the brands and customize the spaces.
If, even in longer times than expected, this plan comes to a positive end, the expansion phase of As Roma may finally start.


This is the business part obviously, football part is a different story.
Even the two may be strictly interconnected.


Coming back to the point, with 90 millions, moreover in many instalments, you can't actually buy any Premier League club, even those much less appealing than As Roma in regard of the potentialities and probably weaker in terms of competitiveness overall.


----------



## RMB2007

> Rome’s Stadio Flaminio has been proposed for inclusion in a project designed to revitalise the northern area of the Italian capital.
> 
> The Citta Celeste website said ‘Progetto per la Città’ involves the redevelopment of an area spanning around 136 hectares, with architect Francesco Bellini, director of PEI Engineering, having prepared a proposal that will be sent to the Municipality of Rome.
> 
> Multi-sport organisation Polisportiva SS Lazio would be granted what is claimed will be the world’s largest sports park, with facilities for football, rugby union, hockey, basketball, volleyball and tennis.
> 
> The Flaminio will reportedly be included under the proposal by housing a museum for Polisportiva SS Lazio, as well as the ability to host concerts and other entertainment events. However, Bellini conceded that the Flaminio will not be part of Serie A football club Lazio’s efforts to develop a new stadium.
> 
> Bellini said: “I spoke several times with (Lazio chairman Claudio) Lotito, who was presented with the area, but he always declared that he wanted to build a stadium in another location. This initiative certainly does not take away space from Lazio Calcio, which indeed can only benefit from it.”
> 
> The latest news comes amid continuing uncertainty over the future of the Flaminio. Work commenced on the redevelopment of the facility in October, with the ultimate goal at the time reported to be its return as the home of Italian rugby union.
> 
> The stadium was first opened in 1959 ahead of Rome’s staging of the 1960 summer Olympic Games. It was the home of Italy’s rugby union team for its entry into the Six Nations competition in 2000 through to 2011, when the team moved to play at the Stadio Olimpico.
> 
> The facility has been left derelict for a number of years, but has been lined up for a three-phase renovation project.


https://www.thestadiumbusiness.com/2019/05/15/stadio-flaminio-included-regeneration-plan-rome/


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## IThomas

IThomas said:


> *The mayor of Pordenone hopes to see privates investing in a new stadium for his town, home of the Pordenone Calcio*, and whose main rivals in Friuli Venezia Giulia region are US Triestina (Stadio Nereo Rocco) and Udinese Calcio (that recently completed its Friuli Stadium/Dacia Arena).
> 
> In an interview with Pordenone Oggi newspaper, the Mayor said: "We need to lay the foundations to foster the construction of a new stadium in Pordenone. An entrepreneurial project carried out with private funds, to which the Municipality will guarantee the necessary infrastructures".
> 
> "In agreement with the President of Pordenone Calcio, we decided to start the negotiations once we are sure that the club is promoted into the Serie B (Italy's second-highest football division), but the road seems to be that". "It doesn't matter if the Black&Greens will play in Udine, pro tempore, even for a couple of football seasons. The most important thing is that they will have their new stadium at end".
> 
> https://www.tuttomercatoweb.com/ser...avorire-la-nascita-di-un-nuovo-stadio-1224672


Fresh news from Pordenone...



> Pordenone FC and the Municipality of Pordenone have just set up a Commission whose purpose is to make a rough assessment on where to place the new stadium (including capacity, construction standards, etc), with the costs of the land and of the entire operation.
> 
> A second phase will then follow in order to realize a project and the financial feasibility study. (...)


http://www.ilfriuli.it/articolo/cronaca/pordenone-vuole-il-suo-stadio/2/198468



> (...) It will not be only a stadium, but an authentic small but functional village for the sport, where other clubs or sports associations will have their new home. (...)


https://pianetaserieb.it/news-calci...adio-sara-unautentica-cittadella-dello-sport/


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## MikkelAndersen

If...
Roma get their 52.000 seater stadium done. 
The Milan clubs build a 60.000 seater stadium.
And Juventus have their 41.000 seater stadium-
... Italy lack another seven stadiums to host EURO 2028 
So how about
1 Napoli get a 50.000 seater stadium.
2-3 Lazio and Fiorentina a 42.000 seater stadium.
4-5 Sampdoria or Genoa build a new 35.000 seater stadium and the other club keep their stadium.
6-7?
Maybe Cagliari, Bologna or Palermo could build or renovate a 30.000 seater stadium.
Or Torino could lower their field a couple of meters and add another 4-5 rows of seats adding another 3000 seats to the 28.000 seater stadium and reducing the running tracks a tiny bit.

https://footballtripper.com/stadio-olimpico-torino-fc/

https://www.worldfootball.net/attendance/ita-serie-a-2018-2019/1/

I still prefer the two Milan clubs build their own stadiums though.
This would take Serie A a long way back to the glory days of the 90's.


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## Pierpo

^^

I don't think the current outlook for a potential Euro 2018 italian bid is so bad in terms of stadiums.

If you need 10 stadiums even with planned development you will have:

- Olimpico Rome, top ranking for UEFA standard
- San Siro or its new version
- Roma Stadium
- Juventus Stadium, brand new though only 40.000 seats
- Stadio Ferraris Genova, that is an english stadium in Italy.
- The newest version of Bologna Stadium 
- The new Fiorentina Stadium, Florence
- to put something in the South of Italy, you could restore Palermo Stadium
for less appealing matches (around 25k attendance) you can have:
- Dacia Arena Udine, brand new
- new stadium Cagliari, that can be expanded up to 30.000 seats.
- Stadio Olimpico Torino, pretty new
- Atalanta Stadium, Bergamo (new stadium in 3 years time)

Other possible opportunities, to spread further south the hosts cities may be;
- Messina Stadium that is amazing and passionate (seems argentinian...).
- Napoli Stadium, in case of big renovation that a potential Euro 2028 may spur.
- San Nicola Bari, that needs strong renovations but is an architecture masterpiece.

I personally think that stadiums are not the main reason for a weak italian bid to Euro 2028.


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## IThomas

*Updates Stadio Nereo Rocco* (Triestina FC home ground) - capacity reduced from 26,000 to +21,000 seats.
Installation of new, multi-colored armchairs; renovated field; all the barriers will be removed; a new led wall should be added.




















https://www.archistadia.it/2019/03/trieste-lavori-stadio-nereo-rocco-europei-under-21.html


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## rebelheartous

Too bad they couldn't make it to promotion again...


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## GreenHornet553

I like the seat layout, not gonna lie.


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## eurocup2016

It's like night and day with the new seats. Any other upgrades being done to the stadium.


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## IThomas

*Juventus FC President, Andrea Agnelli, announces construction of new stadium for two teams: Juventus Women and Juventus Under 23.*










"We have big plans for the Juventus Women and the Juventus Under 23 teams, so we're thinking of a new home. A suitable stadium for these realities, located in Vinovo or in Alessandria" said Mr Agnelli. The most credible hypothesis, however, seems to be the site of the former PalaStampa, within the Continassa area, nearby the Juventus/Allianz Stadium and the J Village.

https://www.calcionews24.com/juve-nuovo-stadio-annuncio-agnelli


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## MikkelAndersen

^^
What size?
8.000-10.000?


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## IThomas

Rumors reported "a small stadium with a capacity between 3,500-5,000 seats".
https://www.sportmediaset.mediaset....-per-un-secondo-stadium_1276738-201902a.shtml
https://www.goal.com/it/notizie/juv...ire-secondo-stadium/z0wwrm37d1bq1g8bevajr0olx


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## deeewooh

rebelheartous said:


> Too bad they couldn't make it to promotion again...


they can still make it through play offs


----------



## MikkelAndersen

https://www.webuildvalue.com/en/infrastructures/the-stadiums-of-the-future.html

Italy lags behind
According to the Federazione Italiana Giuoco Calcio (FICG), or Italian football federation, 159 new stadiums have been built in Europe over the past 10 years. The most active countries are Russia, England, France, Spain and Germany, but also Poland and Turkey.
Italy has fallen behind, with only three stadiums built: the Juventus Allianz Stadium, which cost €155 million in 2011; the Dacia Arena in Udine, built with an investment of €30 million; and Frosinone’s Benito Stirpe, a small structure costing €20 million.
The average age of Italy’s football facilities has therefore reached 63 years, and just eight Serie A facilities have fully covered stands.
So, many football clubs want to renovate their facilities. The most important project belongs to AS Roma, one of Rome’s two football teams. The approved plan involves the construction of a new stadium with 53,000 seats (17,000 less than the Olympic stadium, where matches are played today). The new Colosseum-inspired stadium however will be ultra-modern, technological and equipped with typical retail structures found in new stadiums around the world.
In Milan, the plan is to build a new stadium to replace San Siro, inaugurated in 1926 but renovated since then, which would be demolished at the expense of the Milan and Inter football clubs. According to the projects presented, the cost for the new stadium is seen at around €600 million, which is lower than the amount needed to completely renovate San Siro.
In general, the investments would be substantial, but worth it. According to research carried out by the football consultancy firm StageUp, the construction of new stadiums in Italy would guarantee investments of €4 billion over the next 10 years, creating 85,000 jobs and increasing the overall turnover of the Serie A by 25%.

_______________


True words.
The big clubs MUST build 40.000-60.000 seater stadiums to compete in Europe.
Remember in 8-10 years a 300 mill stadiums will more or less be paid for (see the examples of e.g. Bayern & Juventus).


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## IThomas

MikkelAndersen said:


> In Milan, the plan is to build a new stadium to replace San Siro, inaugurated in 1926 but renovated since then, which would be demolished at the expense of the Milan and Inter football clubs. According to the projects presented, the cost for the new stadium is seen at around €600 million, which is lower than the amount needed to completely renovate San Siro.


To be fair, no project has been submitted to the Municipality so far. 
The Mayor, however, has pushed the clubs to present their plans ASAP.


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## IThomas

*Updates PalaLido (renamed "Allianz Cloud"), Milan
capacity: 5,138*




























See more pics https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=159880396&postcount=2295


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## makkillottu

Wondering why wasn't added on Allianz Family of Stadiums yet...


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## RMB2007

*Brescia Calcio*



> New Mario Rigamonti stadium. Renderings of what the new plant will look like.






























https://twitter.com/BresciaOfficial


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## Picotto

So ugly. But that is Italy.


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## IThomas

IThomas said:


> *Derthona Basket presents its new arena*
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> ​
> Derthona Basket, a basketball team based in the town of Tortona - 113km off Turin (Piedmont, North-West Italy), has presented plans for its new arena. Mr Beniamino Gavio, which is the club's owner, will finance the millionaire project.
> 
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> Designed by the architectural firm Barreca & La Varra, the project include a covered arena with 5,000 seats. It would host basket matches and music events. The access into the arena takes place on the ground floor, in direct continuity with the external space. The horizontal paths are developed internally through a continuous loop which overlooks commercial spaces, gym and services. From the ground zero, visitors can reach the stands, as well as the first and the second ring, thanks different vertical connections. The second floor, which houses press and the lounge areas, appears as a "disk" to delimit the external walkway.
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> ​
> A building will house the headquarters of the team, with the sports training centre and meeting rooms of the team. Further multipurpose sports fields will born near the arena. In addition, the pavilions would be dedicated to food and leisure, outdoor areas will host events and shows in the summer.
> 
> 
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> ​
> https://radiogold.it/video/attualita/gruppo-gavio-presenta-cittadella-sport-tortona-145140/
> http://www.askanews.it/economia/201...lla-dello-sport-di-tortona-pn_20180718_00112/
> http://www.lastampa.it/2018/07/18/a...uppo-gavio-xnSEvdxDgulFnwv7y64onM/pagina.html
> http://www.basketinside.com/a2-oves...della-dello-sport-tortona-punta-alla-serie-a/​


*June 28th, 2019 was an important day for the history of Derthona Basket as the "Conferenza dei Servizi" has ended with the favorable conclusion of the bureaucratic and administrative procedure.* The project --that spans over a surface of 68,000 sqm and aims at creating a new sporting-entertainment destination in Tortona-- was submitted to technical offices on July 18th, 2018. The Gavio family, which is the proponent of such project and Derthona Basket owner, has expressed great satisfaction.

https://www.superbasket.it/2019/06/...dello-sport-sta-diventando-sempre-piu-realta/


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## Urmstoniain

RMB2007 said:


> *Brescia Calcio*
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> https://twitter.com/BresciaOfficial



Being referred to as an 'English-style' stadium....

https://www.thestadiumbusiness.com/2019/06/28/brescias-stadium-transformed-english-style-venue/

Any clues why it would be described as such?


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## Temporarily Exiled

Urmstoniain said:


> Being referred to as an 'English-style' stadium....
> 
> https://www.thestadiumbusiness.com/2019/06/28/brescias-stadium-transformed-english-style-venue/
> 
> Any clues why it would be described as such?


Reminded them of West Ham's stadium, presumably: Can't see much of anything from the stands.


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## ElvisBC

Temporarily Exiled said:


> Urmstoniain said:
> 
> 
> 
> Being referred to as an 'English-style' stadium....
> 
> https://www.thestadiumbusiness.com/2019/06/28/brescias-stadium-transformed-english-style-venue/
> 
> Any clues why it would be described as such?
> 
> 
> 
> Reminded them of West Ham's stadium, presumably: Can't see much of anything from the stands.
Click to expand...

nope, old rigamonti stadium had track and field configuration, and "english style venue" just means stadium without athletic track, nothing more and nothing less!


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## Sheppard Fiddler

Urmstoniain said:


> Being referred to as an 'English-style' stadium....
> 
> https://www.thestadiumbusiness.com/2019/06/28/brescias-stadium-transformed-english-style-venue/
> 
> Any clues why it would be described as such?



I think the "english style" that they are referring to is having 4 x distinct, separate stands on each side of the pitch, not a continuous bowl.


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## Florio

No no, believe in me, i'm italian and in Italy some journalists abuse the term "English style". We use this term to indicate a stadium without athletic track and with the stands really near to the fields. For example, for us english style stadiums are Juventus stadium, Dacia Arena and others. No matters about the separate stands.

So IMO, we use this term because ten or twenty years ago the ones who had only stadiums without track and near the field were the english (spain had stadiums like anoeta or balaidos, france had stadiums like old velodrome and old parc des princes, and germany had many stadiums with an athletic track before 2006).


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## Florio

And, this term, used for Brescia, is stupid. There are two temporary stands near to the field and two stands old and far from the field. This isn't what us call "english style stadium".


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## IThomas

*The football club U.S. Lecce presents plan to refurbish Stadio Via del Mare.*
The stadium has a capacity of nearly 34,000 seats and was built in 1966.










List of works to be implemented:
- Extraordinary maintenance work for all the tribunes: north curve; south curve; distinct and east stand.
- Installation of new chairs in all the stands and creation of VIPs and hospitality area.
- Installation of new benches (teams, rescuers, etc).
- Refurbishment of the area for disabled people in order to improve visibility and comfort.
- Installation of new transparent polycarbonate panels around the pitch.
- Technological update of the turnstiles.
- Installation of new lighting and sound systems.
- Adaptation of the stadium to the "VAR technology". Creation of the rooms reserved for VAR Officers / Operators and Lega Calcio delegates.
- Retopping of the athletic track and of all the areas inside the playing enclosure.
- Refurbishment of public toilets, locker rooms, etc.
- Upgrading works and verification activities concerning the safety of the structure and of the plants.
- Extraordinary maintenance of the turf and construction of a new irrigation system.
- Extraordinary maintenance work for the central grandstand shelter, the west area rooms; etc.

The club is also considering a second working phase that should include the construction of a new roof.















http://www.uslecce.it/news/18578817...erenza-del-presidente-saverio-sticchi-damiani​


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## aidan88

IThomas said:


> *The football club U.S. Lecce presents plan to refurbish Stadio Via del Mare.*
> The stadium has a capacity of nearly 34,000 seats and was built in 1966.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> List of works to be implemented:
> - Extraordinary maintenance work for all the tribunes: north curve; south curve; distinct and east stand.
> - Installation of new chairs in all the stands and creation of VIPs and hospitality area.
> - Installation of new benches (teams, rescuers, etc).
> - Refurbishment of the area for disabled people in order to improve visibility and comfort.
> - Installation of new transparent polycarbonate panels around the pitch.
> - Technological update of the turnstiles.
> - Installation of new lighting and sound systems.
> - Adaptation of the stadium to the "VAR technology". Creation of the rooms reserved for VAR Officers / Operators and Lega Calcio delegates.
> - Retopping of the athletic track and of all the areas inside the playing enclosure.
> - Refurbishment of public toilets, locker rooms, etc.
> - Upgrading works and verification activities concerning the safety of the structure and of the plants.
> - Extraordinary maintenance of the turf and construction of a new irrigation system.
> - Extraordinary maintenance work for the central grandstand shelter, the west area rooms; etc.
> 
> The club is also considering a second working phase that should include the construction of a new roof.
> 
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> http://www.uslecce.it/news/18578817...erenza-del-presidente-saverio-sticchi-damiani​


Are they hoping to complete that before the season starts?

Seems like they've wasted a month already (like Brescia did).


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## Florio

MikkelAndersen said:


> Does anyone know which clubs will host the football matches if Italy win the 2028 Eurobid?
> I read that Cagliari is a candidate, but they only have a capacity of 25.000 if the build their new stadium.
> I expect the Milan clubs, Roma, Fiorentina, and Juventus to be candidates, but that's only four stadiums.
> How about Napoli and Lazio?
> I think a stadium need to be at least 30.000 seats and many of them more.
> If the Milan clubs had a 60.000 stadium
> Roma 52.000 stadium
> Juventus 41.000 stadium
> we need Fiorentina to step in with a 41.000 stadium, Napoli, 51.000 stadium, Lazio 41.000 stadium.
> Perhaps Sampdoria and Genoa would be alright too with their stadium?
> Torino could lower their pitch 2 meters and add another 2000-2500 seats to get closer to the pitch and have a 30.500 seater instead of 28.000?
> And how about Bologna reaching 30.000?
> In my dream both AC Milan and inter would have their separate 60.000 seater stadiums.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UEFA Euro 2024 bids - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The required capacities for the ten stadiums are as follows:
> 
> 3 stadia with 50,000 seats (preferably one of which with at least 60,000 seats)
> 3 stadia with 40,000 seats
> 4 stadia with 30,000 seats
> My realistic suggestion:
> Milan/Inter: 61.000
> Napoli: 51.000
> Roma: 52.000
> Juventus: 41.000
> Fiorentina: 41.000
> Lazio 41.000
> Sampdoria/Genoa 36.500 upgrade?
> Palermo 35.500 upgrade
> Bologna 30.500
> Torino 30.500 upgrade by lowering the field 2 meters and adding another 25000 seats.
> It's all big cities that can fill the stadium at least 3/4 after the world tournament.
> Building a 60.000 seater and only needing 30.000 seats after the tournament would be a disaster. They need to be 75 per cent full to have a great atmosphere.


I'm not sure about Italy's bid, but i hope that will be.

I hope Milan's stadium will have at least 65/67k, but we also have Olympic Stadium in Rome, which have 72k. Cagliari Stadium will be expandable so it will be considered for an eventual Euro Cup.


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## Tazvaz

The problem will be reconciling those large capacities required by UEFA with the relatively low attendances outside the Milan clubs.


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## MikkelAndersen

As I already mentioned I believe the Milan clubs will sell out the "future" 61.000 seats each day.
Juventus have good size stadium 41.500
Roma can fill 40.000 + each match in the planned 52.000
If Fiorentina build a 41.000 they would have an attendance of 30.000 +
If Lazio build a 45.000 they would have an attendance of 35.000 +
If Napoli build a 51.000 they would have an attendance of 35.000 +
If Bologna build a 31.000 they would have an attendance of 23.000 +
Torino could lower their field a couple of meters and add another four row of seats adding another 2500 seats to have a 30.000 seater. I would improve the view and in most games they would sell out 23.000 +
You still have Olimpico in Rome.
So, I don't think it's too bad. A stadium need to be at least 3/4 full.
Then you have the two clubs in Genoa and Palermo and we're getting there.

Torino:








Torino, se lo stadio di proprietà fosse l’Olimpico Grande Torino: benefici e limiti


Focus / L'attuale struttura non permetterebbe un'espansione per spazi commerciali, un'area potrebbe essere quella dietro alla biglietteria di piazza d'Armi




www.toronews.net













Torino, Stadio Olimpico: la nuova proposta del Comune


<p style="text-align: justify;"><span style=""><em><strong>Mozione Olimpico / Ecco la nuova proposta del Comune a Cairo: un contratto che permetta al Toro di acquistare lo stadio, scalando al prezzo i soldi che verranno versati per il nuovo...




www.toronews.net





Attendance before Corona:





Serie A 2018/2019 - Attendance


Serie A 2018/2019 » Attendance » Home matches




www.worldfootball.net




A more modern stadium with an improved view would probably increase the attendance with at least 15-20 per cent. I happened to Juventus.

Napoli had a average attendance of 29.000 in a 55.000 seater stadium with a horrible view.
I bet they could sell at least 35.000, and often more, in a modern 51.000 stadium with no running tracks and an almost full house.

It's a similar situation with Lazio and Roma.

Full stadiums with the spectators close to the players look better on TV and the TV rights could be sold for a larger amount of money.

Players would like to play in a modern stadium with a great atmosphere. It would be easier to lure players to Serie A.
Luckily the cities and weather in Italy are often more attractive than elsewhere.


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## Florio

Agree, the first match on Ronaldo in Serie A was in Verona, Stadio Bentegodi... Not the best! Now there are new owners in Italy, so i hope that something will change, and i think that despite the problems a little number of stadiums will be builded. At least Bologna, Cagliari, Milano and i my opinion Rome. And there are four stadiums totally included in a potential bid for the Euro Cup. Now the fact is: when will Italy present that bid?


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## MikkelAndersen

"At least Bologna, Cagliari, Milano and i my opinion Rome".
*___*

Hopefully Fiorentina too.

And then Lazio and Napoli might realize that building a 200-300 mill stadium will be a long term investment that will will be paid for in 8-10 years. And if you want to invest in top 200 players you need the money from your stadium.


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## Florio

Oh i think the same, in facts my comment wasn't about my hope, because in this case i hope for literally every team in Serie A to have its own stadium, but in that moment the ones that i think they will build are Bologna, Cagliari ecc. I don't have so much hope about Lazio and Napoli, but who knows? Maybe tomorrow they will surprise us 😅


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## Axelferis

@MikkelAndersen

A stadium isn't paid within 8-10 years but 20 years.Even emirates Arsenal is not totally paid today wheras is among the more profitable venues.


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## MikkelAndersen

Axelferis said:


> @MikkelAndersen
> 
> A stadium isn't paid within 8-10 years but 20 years.Even emirates Arsenal is not totally paid today wheras is among the more profitable venues.


Both Bayern and Juventus paid for their stadium within less than 10 years.









Bayern pay off stadium debt almost 16 years early


Rummenigge told the club magazine, "In 2005 we borrowed exactly 346 million euros in a 25-year plan, which was meant to last until 2030."



www.espn.co.uk





In Juventus' case it went even quicker. They paid 120 mill for their stadium, had a sponsor paying 75 mill. and the increase in revenue skyrocketed from a mere 15 mill in 2010 to now 60 mill a season ten years after. In season 2011 the revenue had trebled to more than 40 mill.









Juventus' stadium will pay for Cristiano in two years


La Gazzetta dello Sport maintain that the Allianz Stadium generated over 60 million euro in the Portuguese player's first season in Italy with a 40% lift in income.



en.as.com


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## Axelferis

You cannot compare the ridiculous amount of 120 millions for juve stadium and a massive 300 millions € for another less efficient italian club.


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## MikkelAndersen

Axelferis said:


> You cannot compare the ridiculous amount of 120 millions for juve stadium and a massive 300 millions € for another less efficient italian club.


Read this:









Financial muscle for top-flight Milan clubs - Coliseum


San Siro, officially known as Stadio Giuseppe Meazza, is a football stadium in the San Siro district of Milan.




www.coliseum-online.com













Financial masterplan laid out for new Milan stadium


AC Milan and Inter Milan are projecting non-matchday revenues of €124m (£109.1m/$137.1m) per year from the Italian Serie A football...




www.thestadiumbusiness.com





Their income will treble from 34 mill to more than 100 mill. per year. This is 66 mill more per year. It's a 30 year loan, but like Bayern it will be paid for within ten years. Since the outlay is 564 mill with an interest rate of 5 per cent.


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## Axelferis

Ok but i wasn't talking about Milan because their project costs 1 billion € in investments (600 millions€ just for the stadium). 
I don't doubt it will be profitable.


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## MikkelAndersen

Axelferis said:


> Ok but i wasn't talking about Milan because their project costs 1 billion € in investments (600 millions€ just for the stadium).
> I don't doubt it will be profitable.


So, what are you talking about? In this forum we talk about Italian teams investing in modern infrastructure and how they can benefit from it.


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## RMB2007

The Italian Olympic Committee (CONI), Italian Football Federation (FIGC) and Lega Serie A have written a letter to Italian Prime Minister Mario Draghi to address the issues surrounding stadium development in the country.

In December, the three bodies sent a letter to then-Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte, Minister of Economy Roberto Gualtieri, Minister of Sport Vincenzo Spadafora and Minister of Cultural Heritage Dario Franceschini to discuss the “difficult moment” Italian football is facing and the “backwardness” of infrastructure projects within the sport.

The new letter to Draghi invites the Prime Minister to look at the “critical conditions” facing sports venues in Italy. The letter has been signed by CONI president Giovanni Malagò, FIGC president Gabriele Gravina and Lega Serie A president Paolo Dal Pino.

The letter stated: “The sports infrastructures in our country are in decidedly critical conditions and represent, in fact, a brake on the development and growth of the system as a whole. However, what we find even more regrettable, if not harmful, is the continuing insecurity on the procedures in question that conditions and discourages any investment in the sector.”

The original letter pointed out that Italy was behind England, Germany and Spain in a number of areas, including average revenues from fans and the number of new stadiums built in the last 20 years.

The new letter specifically cited Serie A club Fiorentina’s plans for a new stadium. In January, Fiorentina president Rocco Commisso slammed a ruling from Italy’s Ministry of Cultural Heritage and Activities (MiBACT) that stated the Stadio Artemio Franchi (pictured) could not be demolished or undergo a major redevelopment due to its historic status.

The decision marked the latest blow to Fiorentina’s long-held ambitions to either redevelop the Franchi or move to a new stadium in Tuscany. The letter from Lega Serie A, CONI and the FIGC said that projects such as Fiorentina’s “risk being thwarted by the exasperating bureaucracy and the self-defeating obstruction of associations that do not recognise the legitimacy of the procedures established by law”.

The letter added: “It is our intention to involve the Government in a plan for the redevelopment of sports facilities, perhaps even finding specific recognition in the upcoming Recovery Plan, which will allow Italy to get closer to European standards. A new generation of stadiums would, in fact, bring immediate benefits, especially in terms of employment, and would be a great driver for the economy of our country.”









Italian sports bodies reiterate stadium plea to government


The Italian Olympic Committee (CONI), Italian Football Federation (FIGC) and Lega Serie A have written a letter to Italian Prime...




www.thestadiumbusiness.com


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## IThomas

Updates *Chorus Life (Bergamo)*




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=504326457620675


































​


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## Pierpo

Updates - Stadium revamping project unveiling for Parma Calcio:









Il nuovo Tardini al vaglio della politica: pressing su verde e viabilità


Presentato in commissione il progetto di ristrutturazione dello stadio




parma.repubblica.it


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## IThomas

^^
We have a dedicated thread > PARMA - Ennio Tardini Stadium (27,906)


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## Pierpo

IThomas said:


> ^^
> We have a dedicated thread > PARMA - Ennio Tardini Stadium (27,906)


Didn't know! 

Thanks!


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## MikkelAndersen

Pierpo said:


> Updates - Stadium revamping project unveiling for Parma Calcio:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Il nuovo Tardini al vaglio della politica: pressing su verde e viabilità
> 
> 
> Presentato in commissione il progetto di ristrutturazione dello stadio
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> parma.repubblica.it
> 
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> View attachment 1326148


The new Parma stadium is an eyesore. The stands are not connected and it looks stupid that the upper tier is much bigger than the lower tier. Just like in Florence. Just build a stadium like Brøndby in Denmark with 28.000 seats. Four connected stands with two tiers consisting of 16-18 seats.









Brøndby - Esbjerg, Superliga, Runde 15 | Optakt og spiltips


Kom helt tæt på Danmarks bedste optakt til kampen mellem Brøndby IF-Silkeborg IF i runde 16 af Superligaens Grundspil ✅Analyse ✅Spiltips ✅Odds ✅100% Gratis



www.betting24.dk


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## slipperydog

The ancient Roman Colosseum is once again going to have a floor thanks to a new, hi-tech project announced by the culture ministry on Sunday.

"It is an extraordinary project," said Culture Minister Dario Franceschini, detailing the plans to create a flexible floor to give tourists a clearer idea of how the arena would have looked when gladiators fought to the death there.

"You will be able to walk on it and go to the centre of the Colosseum, seeing it in the same way as visitors used to up to the end of the 19th century," Franceschini said.

The last floor was removed by archaeologists to get a better glimpse of the labyrinth of rooms and corridors that lay below the arena. It was never fully replaced.

An Italian engineering firm, Milan Ingegneria, won the 18.5 million euro ($22.2 million) contract to design the new flooring and has committed to complete the project by 2023.

The wooden platform will be made up of hundreds of slats that can be rotated to bring natural light into the underground chambers that once used to house the gladiators and animals before their deadly combat.

















Italy unveils new hi-tech floor design for Colosseum area


The ancient Roman Colosseum is once again going to have a floor thanks to a new, hi-tech project announced by the culture ministry on Sunday.




www.reuters.com


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## IThomas

^^
For visitors to Rome, there will be a chance to see the Colosseum as the gladiators once did as they gazed up in bowel-clenching anticipation before engaging in blood-spattered combat in front of the emperor. Rome is to reconstruct the arena of the Colosseum, the vast oval-shaped space where gladiators armed with swords, tridents and nets did battle with each other and wild animals imported from all over the Roman Empire. Tourists will be able to stroll out onto the rebuilt arena and look up at the vast stone tiers of seating that enclose the amphitheatre. The arena will also become a venue for concerts and other events. The project includes retractable segments so that tourists can still view the tunnels where leopards, ostriches and bulls and nervous gladiators awaited their turn to fight.






"We want to put back the arena employing the same principles with which it was first built in ancient times" said Alfonsina Russo, the Colosseum's director. "The reconstruction of the Colosseum'arena is a great idea that will capture the world's imagination", said Dario Franceschini, the culture minister. "It will offer visitors the chance to see not only the subterranean area, as they can today, but to contemplate the beauty of the Colosseum from its very heart".


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## RMB2007

Euganeo Stadium:


















Passione Stadi


Passione Stadi, Бергамо. Отметки "Нравится": 65 578 · Обсуждают: 3 117 · Посетили: 23. PassioneStadi è nata per tutti gli appassionati di stadi del passato, del presente e del futuro.




www.facebook.com


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## RMB2007

^^^












Sito privato


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## IThomas

Updates* Chorus Life (Bergamo)*
The project includes, among other things, a 6,500-seat indoor arena.
See more > link


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## Timkale17

Ciao! I'm doing my Loughborough university dissertation on whether the taxpayer should pay for Everton FC's stadium (given the £1bn economic boost). I've had to change my title to 'The role of the taxpayer in European sport stadia funding'. So, Everton will be my main case study but will use a few more examples from around Europe. 
Which would be best for me to collect data on, Bologna / Cagliari / Fiorentina? Could someone point me in the direction of data/reports/documents on the stadia, please?


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## RMB2007

Municipal Councilor Matteo Senno posted in the evening on his social profile the draft approval of the “Bosco dello sport” project, which should lead to the construction of the new stadium in Tessera with 16 thousand seats and a multipurpose arena with 10 thousand spectators. Tomorrow Mayor Luigi Brugnaro will hold a press conference to illustrate the program









Venezia, approvato il progetto “Bosco dello Sport” per il nuovo stadio a Tessera: sarà la volta buona? | Triveneto Goal


Il Consigliere Comunale Matteo Senno ha postato in serata sul suo profilo social la bozza di approvazione del progetto "Bosco dello sport", che dovrebbe portare alla costruzione del nuovo stadio a Tessera da 16mila posti e di un'arena polifunzionale da 10mila spettatori. Domani il sindaco Luigi...




www.trivenetogoal.it


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## IThomas

After the Municipality of Venice had approved the previously proposed project, the local football club decided to make a turnaround and not invest. Anyway, the development should still be realized but with local/government funds. The project has been renamed and changed.

***
*Bosco dello Sport (Sports Wood), Venice.*

Bosco dello Sport is a 333 million euros project. It comprises a large green and sporting area (arena, stadium, swimming center, etc.) in mainland Venice, nearby the Venezia Marco Polo International Airport, the Highway and the future high-speed rail station.









Venezia, a Tessera il "Bosco dello sport"


E' stata ribattezzata così l'area in cui sorgeranno lo stadio, il palasport e i nuovi impianti sportivi della Città metropolitana. Un progetto all'insegna del verde, in parte finanziabile con i fondi del Pnrr




www.rainews.it















Master plan









Stadium (16,000)


















See more about the Arena (10,000) > THREAD



https://www.veneziatoday.it/foto/cronaca/concept-del-futuro-stadio-del-venezia-con-palasport-e-campus/#concept-del-futuro-stadio-del-venezia-con-palasport-e-campus-3.html



These are the words of Councillor Matteo Senno:

The "Bosco dello sport" (Sports Wood) will be a multifunctional place, active 7 days a week, a metropolitan aggregation center for young people, students, sportsmen and more generally for all citizens who want to pleasantly spend a part of their free time in a metropolitan forest characterized by some excellent structures in which concerts, events can also be organized. The integrated urban plan was sent to Italy's Ministry of Economy.

Realization of a real "urban forest", consisting of 113 hectares of a wooded area within Tessera quadrant.
New football stadium with 16,000 seats.
New multi-use indoor arena with 10,000 seats.
New Indoor Swimming Center with Olympic swimming pool, training pool and diving pool.
Creation of spaces intended for the practice of various sports disciplines including tennis, padel, soccer, beach volleyball, basketball, skate.
Realization of an Education Campus: spaces for training, schools, universities, medical research centers and rehabilitation clinics.
Realization of a Guest Quarters for athletes, students and researchers.
Creation of a square for outdoor events.









Venezia, approvato il progetto “Bosco dello Sport” per il nuovo stadio a Tessera: sarà la volta buona? | Triveneto Goal


Il Consigliere Comunale Matteo Senno ha postato in serata sul suo profilo social la bozza di approvazione del progetto "Bosco dello sport", che dovrebbe portare alla costruzione del nuovo stadio a Tessera da 16mila posti e di un'arena polifunzionale da 10mila spettatori. Domani il sindaco Luigi...




www.trivenetogoal.it


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## alexandru.mircea

IThomas said:


> After the Municipality of Venice had approved the previously proposed project, the local football club decided to make a turnaround and not invest. Anyway, the development should still be realized but with local/government funds. The project has been renamed and changed.
> 
> ***
> *Bosco dello Sport (Sports Wood), Venice.*
> 
> Bosco dello Sport is a 333 million euros project. It comprises a large green and sporting area (arena, stadium, swimming center, etc.) in mainland Venice, nearby the Venezia Marco Polo International Airport, the Highway and the future high-speed rail station.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Venezia, a Tessera il "Bosco dello sport"
> 
> 
> E' stata ribattezzata così l'area in cui sorgeranno lo stadio, il palasport e i nuovi impianti sportivi della Città metropolitana. Un progetto all'insegna del verde, in parte finanziabile con i fondi del Pnrr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rainews.it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Master plan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stadium (16,000)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See more about the Arena (10,000) > THREAD
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.veneziatoday.it/foto/cronaca/concept-del-futuro-stadio-del-venezia-con-palasport-e-campus/#concept-del-futuro-stadio-del-venezia-con-palasport-e-campus-3.html
> 
> 
> 
> These are the words of Councillor Matteo Senno:
> 
> The "Bosco dello sport" (Sports Wood) will be a multifunctional place, active 7 days a week, a metropolitan aggregation center for young people, students, sportsmen and more generally for all citizens who want to pleasantly spend a part of their free time in a metropolitan forest characterized by some excellent structures in which concerts, events can also be organized. The integrated urban plan was sent to Italy's Ministry of Economy.
> 
> Realization of a real "urban forest", consisting of 113 hectares of a wooded area within Tessera quadrant.
> New football stadium with 16,000 seats.
> New multi-use indoor arena with 10,000 seats.
> New Indoor Swimming Center with Olympic swimming pool, training pool and diving pool.
> Creation of spaces intended for the practice of various sports disciplines including tennis, padel, soccer, beach volleyball, basketball, skate.
> Realization of an Education Campus: spaces for training, schools, universities, medical research centers and rehabilitation clinics.
> Realization of a Guest Quarters for athletes, students and researchers.
> Creation of a square for outdoor events.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Venezia, approvato il progetto “Bosco dello Sport” per il nuovo stadio a Tessera: sarà la volta buona? | Triveneto Goal
> 
> 
> Il Consigliere Comunale Matteo Senno ha postato in serata sul suo profilo social la bozza di approvazione del progetto "Bosco dello sport", che dovrebbe portare alla costruzione del nuovo stadio a Tessera da 16mila posti e di un'arena polifunzionale da 10mila spettatori. Domani il sindaco Luigi...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.trivenetogoal.it


What are your personal thoughts on this?


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## IThomas

alexandru.mircea said:


> What are your personal thoughts on this?


The project is still preliminary. But for the arena in the background, it looks like they would make use of Murano glass on the facades (this would give a Venetian touch)... that's my impression, but maybe I am wrong. From a financial point of view, the proposal has been sent to the Economy Ministry, let's what for the answer.


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## Dane1102

The indoor Arena (10k seats) would be the home of Reyes Venezia, an important Basketball Team and I think it’s the right size, the capacity is fair. It would be the largest in the entire North-East of Italy (Venetian Region, Trentino Region, Friuli region, 7-7.5 million inhabitants, three among the richest regions in Italy).

The stadium would be too little, imho. Venezia plays in Serie A, I would go for a 20-25K size stadium.

The other facilities are needed in Venezia, I would be happy if they manage to build them.


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## IThomas

Venezia Football Club said it will remain at the Penzo. But what if they change their mind? It would be better.
As for the capacity, 16,000 seats represented the minimum capacity set by Serie A.
Anyway, I agree, I'd go for a 20,000 stadium in the case of Venice.


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## Dane1102

But what’s the purpose of building a new stadium if it would not be used by the local team of football? Who will use it? it’s planned to be a rugby stadium or what? I can’t understand.

I think Venezia say they want to stay at the Penzo because they don’t want to spend money and they will change their mind as long as the stadium will be built. But in that case, the stadium will be too little. That would be a pity


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## IThomas

Yes, maybe they want the city to built it for them and then they would try to move there once it's completed. This would also explain their U-turn regarding the previous project.


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## žabar92

I really like the uniqueness and eccentric design of the arena and the use of Murano glass, it really pays a nice tribute to Venetian culture.
I like the stadium design too but the colours kind of bother me if I'm being honest.
Eventually Venezia FC will play here, I'm quite sure of that and since their colours are black/green/orange I think the columns would look so much better if they were in that 3 colours.
Regarding capacity I think 16k would be enough for Venezia at this point, right now they average around 6.5k per game at Pier Luigi Penzo and you have to factor in that this is their
first season in Seria A in a long time, which means there was more interest to see the big teams like Juve, Inter, Milan, Napoli again and they still don't average close to 10k.
On the other hand the stadium will be built on the mainland close to Mestre which would bring in new fans and would be far more accessible than their current stadium.
Venezia are also currently 18th which means they could be relegated this season and I just don't see a 20k stadium for a team in Serie B or team which is yo-yoing between Serie A and Serie B.
Of course you built a stadium like that for the next 20, 30, 40 years but I think it would be more reasonable to do a 16k stadium for a start and make it upgradable to 20-25k capacity.
It also suprises me that the commercial side (shopping center) has fallen out of plans and now the plan is to built kind of a "sports mini city", @IThomas do you know what is the reason for this?


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## IThomas

@žabar92

The thing we know so far is that this project would be financed by local/State government bodies, so public funds. The previous project (see here), which had commercial-tertiary spaces (shopping mall in buildings nearby the new stadium), was designed to be a revenue source for the local football club. That project, indeed, had to be financed by the club in collaboration with the Italian Institute for Sports Credit, a public-private bank (80-20%) that grants loans to the projects in which it "believes".

A Councillor for the City of Venice said that the club let them know they were doing a U-turn about that project. This led the Municipality to review everything since it still wanted the city to have new sporting infrastructures and redevelop this area of Mestre, close to national highways, Venezia Marco Polo International Airport, and will soon be served by a dedicated station of the high-speed rail service. The Municipality's new project, among other things, will include new functions like an indoor Olympic swimming pool and a guest house.

Anyway, the design is not definitive and could change. The Metropolitan City of Venice has sent this preliminary plan/dossier to Italy's Economy Ministry and is therefore awaiting a response from Rome.

We'll see if the club will change its mind in the next months, at least for the stadium alone. If this happens, they could still be in time and say to the mayor: we want to participate. Otherwise, they could move from the Penzo to this new stadium and rent it. Or remain at the Penzo.

I want to note that the vast majority of Italian existing stadiums are Municipality-owned. It has been so for decades since they were built with public funds and for being used for various reasons and to be the home of more sports clubs. In the case of football, the local football club, due to the fact that does not own a sports plant, decides to rent a Municipality-owned stadium and pay a fee agreed with the Municipality. For example, Fiorentina pays 1.1 million of euros per year to use the Franchi Stadium, but the club is capable to generate there 8-9 million euros per year. In the case of Florence, this figure will change in the years to come, thanks to the important redevelopment project (see here preliminary design) that is going to be implemented in the Franchi (protected by 'heritage status', a status granted by the Superintendence of Cultural Heritage) and the Campo di Marte area, with also the construction of new commercial-tertiary buildings that will likely be put on sale to privates, so including the club.

Another case that I can cite is that of Milan and Inter. The two Milanese football clubs want to realize their own project on Municipality-owned land, that of San Siro, and also want to demolish the Meazza Stadium (that's Municipality-owned too, and for which the clubs still pay today an annual rent of about 8 million euros in total). But with the final go-ahead to the project (it will change in the final version), the Municipality of Milan will grant the clubs 99-years surface rights, in exchange for the creation of new green-pedestrian areas and public amenities for the community. Obviously, the clubs will also be capable to generate money, increase their revenues, thanks to the presence of commercial-tertiary activities both inside and outside the new stadium, without considering the stadium tickets. The clubs also will split management costs. Then, if you take Juventus, the club already does so in its Juventus Stadium. In Turin, where the new stadium is located, once there was the Municipality-owned Stadio delle Alpi.



>


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## IThomas

*New Ravenna Sports Hall
Ravenna, Emilia-Romagna*

The sports facility will be able to seat 6,000 people for basketball and volleyball events (5,000 in the case of concerts and shows). The Sports Hall was designed to be equipped with a photovoltaic system with an average annual production of 173 thousand kWh; a geothermal field for the production of water hot water; an aeration system capable of exchanging 120 thousand cubic meters of air per hour. Investment of 15.5 million euros; financed by Municipality, Region, local Chamber of Commerce.




























UPDATE








photo credit: mgalbu


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## žabar92

I understand that most clubs in Italy have Muncipality-owned stadiums but that is because of the financial structure of the clubs. In England and many clubs in Germany and Spain have full ownership of their stadiums and they get to keep all the money + they make all the decisions on how the stadium will look and how it will be serviced. Clubs like Juve, Udinese, Sassuolo and Atalanta have all either built their own stadiums or they have bought them from municipalities so I think there is more of a trend on owning your own stadium in Italian football at the moment.

But it's always about the financial capabilities and if you have them you would much rather own your own stadium than rent it from someone else. In the case of Venezia I know they have American owners who like to think a little "out of the box" with their ideas but aren't necessarily super rich to be able to just spend 100-200mil on a new stadium without batting an eyelid. For this reason I think they would rather wait on the city of Mestre to go through on this project and then preferably rent the stadium and maybe even negotiate a right to buy it in the future. Having a shopping center next to it is a good business and I can see why the club thought of that in the original project. If I'm not mistaken Juventus have a shopping center next to their stadium and so do Sassuolo.

Just a few words on the Fiorentina project, I've seen many different designs already but to be honest they all look kind of ridiculous. I know they are keeping the structural part of old stands because it's protected but it doesn't make any sense to built the new stands inside this ring, it just looks super ugly and isn't cohesive. I think Atalanta have done much better with their stadium which also has historically protected stand but they have built a new stand (one is still to come) which connects with the old in a seamless way. The other similar project I prefer much more to Fiorentina's is the one in Bologna (Renato Dall'Ara Stadium). The projects are again very similar but from the plans they have incorporated the old stand much better, put a glass roof and still made sure to keep the tower in the middle of the main stand. The difference with Fiorentina is the owner is actually prepared to invest heavily in the new stadium or completely redevelop the Artemio Franchi and I doubt he is very happy with the plans the municipality have come up with.

Do you think it is possible that Rocco Commisso finds a land to built his own stadium in Florence or will he just cooperate with the authorities to include his ideas and in the end rent it like they do right now?


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## IThomas

> The difference with Fiorentina is the owner is actually prepared to invest heavily in the new stadium or completely redevelop the Artemio Franchi and I doubt he is very happy with the plans the municipality have come up with. Do you think it is possible that Rocco Commisso finds a land to built his own stadium in Florence or will he just cooperate with the authorities to include his ideas and in the end rent it like they do right now?


In reality, Rocco Commisso has already had more options:


2 private-owned sites, in other locations just outside the Municipality of Florence (in the urban area's first belt). The first site was owned by a local wealthy family; the second was put available by a pool of local investors. Anyway, no deal. And I don't know the details because have remained private issues.
1 public-owned area, located between the city center of Florence and the airport, with the railway attached to the site (a good addition since it was possible to think about the creation of a new station serving the new stadium and its village). The Municipality wanted to put such a large site for sale via public auction (legally, the tender must be open to every private subject). The auction base for the purchase of this 14.8 hectares land was set at 22 million euros. (note: the figure was established by a private company that helped the Municipality to make the right estimate of the property at market price). However, Commisso said that such a figure was "TOO HIGH" and that -if it was the case- he would have bought it for 6 million euros AT MOST! So, no deal again.

Then, Commisso went to the Mayor to explain his idea: demolish all the Franchi Stadium (Municipality-owned) and to also give him the surrounding land. The Mayor said him that his idea to demolish it was not a possible path since the Superintendence of Cultural Heritage gave the Franchi the 'heritage status'. (Note: the SCH is an independent body that deals with the protection and the enhancement of buildings and landscapes having cultural status... so the Mayor does not have any power on the issue). The Mayor, however, said to Commisso that a possible path was to try to redevelop the Franchi together, by also giving Fiorentina all the things the club needed. Months ago, Commisso refused this kind of collaboration. If I was him, I would have said to the Mayor: "ok, but I want to be or to have a member of my team in the commission of experts (architects, engineers, restaurateurs) that have the task to pick the winning project of the international competition". He lost that chance.

So, the Mayor -since wants the 'good' of his city and he's himself a Fiorentina fan- went to Rome to convince the Italian government to grant the Franchi some funds for its refurbishment. It was immediately launched a design competition with a series of guidelines set by the SCH. After negotiations, the Mayor has been capable to find 450 million euros... funds mostly coming from the various ministries (Infrastructures and Sustainable Mobility, Cultural Heritage, Interiors). Obviously, that figure is not destined for the renovation of the stadium only, but for the redevelopment of the entire Campo di Marte area, the creation of a new tramway line serving the area, and more. In brief, it will help to give a great upgrade to everything and to give a new face to the neighborhood.

And now we come to the present days. Despite all the things described above, Commisso has another opportunity. He can increase Fiorentina's revenues by buying the commercial-tertiary spaces that will be put available in the Campo di Marte area, without considering the money that will come from a rented renovated stadium (match tickets, museum, etc.). In the case that Commisso thinks the available spaces are not enough, he can always try to buy a nearby site and present a project for the construction of a multi-use building that can host further economic activities. For sure, this is a short-term scenario that can help Fiorentina.

But that's not all, there is still a 'very last chance'. Before everything begins, Commisso could eat his old words, go to the Mayor and tell him: "I want to enter the stadium business now". Therefore he can pursue a path similar to that of his colleague Saputo in Bologna (where the Municipality and the football club will split renovation work costs). Oh, the Mayor has always had a 'welcoming' approach and understands the needs of modern football.

Go elsewhere? It is ok, but compared to the renovated Franchi and Campo di Marte, I think it would take more years to see a different project completed. But as I've said in other threads, each football club is free to do what it wants. There are no laws or constraints that prevent the club from leaving the stadium it rents. It's like when you rent a house from a private and then you decide to do not to renovate the contract because you want to have a much more beautiful, larger house, or simply want to change neighborhood or city.


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## IThomas

IThomas said:


> After the Municipality of Venice had approved the previously proposed project, the local football club decided to make a turnaround and not invest. Anyway, the development should still be realized but with local/government funds. The project has been renamed and changed.
> 
> ***
> *Bosco dello Sport (Sports Wood), Venice.*
> 
> Bosco dello Sport is a 333 million euros project. It comprises a large green and sporting area (arena, stadium, swimming center, etc.) in mainland Venice, nearby the Venezia Marco Polo International Airport, the Highway and the future high-speed rail station.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Venezia, a Tessera il "Bosco dello sport"
> 
> 
> E' stata ribattezzata così l'area in cui sorgeranno lo stadio, il palasport e i nuovi impianti sportivi della Città metropolitana. Un progetto all'insegna del verde, in parte finanziabile con i fondi del Pnrr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rainews.it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Master plan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stadium (16,000)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See more about the Arena (10,000) > THREAD
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.veneziatoday.it/foto/cronaca/concept-del-futuro-stadio-del-venezia-con-palasport-e-campus/#concept-del-futuro-stadio-del-venezia-con-palasport-e-campus-3.html
> 
> 
> 
> These are the words of Councillor Matteo Senno:
> 
> The "Bosco dello sport" (Sports Wood) will be a multifunctional place, active 7 days a week, a metropolitan aggregation center for young people, students, sportsmen and more generally for all citizens who want to pleasantly spend a part of their free time in a metropolitan forest characterized by some excellent structures in which concerts, events can also be organized. The integrated urban plan was sent to Italy's Ministry of Economy.
> 
> Realization of a real "urban forest", consisting of 113 hectares of a wooded area within Tessera quadrant.
> New football stadium with 16,000 seats.
> New multi-use indoor arena with 10,000 seats.
> New Indoor Swimming Center with Olympic swimming pool, training pool and diving pool.
> Creation of spaces intended for the practice of various sports disciplines including tennis, padel, soccer, beach volleyball, basketball, skate.
> Realization of an Education Campus: spaces for training, schools, universities, medical research centers and rehabilitation clinics.
> Realization of a Guest Quarters for athletes, students and researchers.
> Creation of a square for outdoor events.
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> Venezia, approvato il progetto “Bosco dello Sport” per il nuovo stadio a Tessera: sarà la volta buona? | Triveneto Goal
> 
> 
> Il Consigliere Comunale Matteo Senno ha postato in serata sul suo profilo social la bozza di approvazione del progetto "Bosco dello sport", che dovrebbe portare alla costruzione del nuovo stadio a Tessera da 16mila posti e di un'arena polifunzionale da 10mila spettatori. Domani il sindaco Luigi...
> 
> 
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> 
> www.trivenetogoal.it


Venice Mayor on Twitter:



> Bosco dello Sport (Sports Wood) was approved by the City Council! A strategic project, the fulcrum of the metropolitan plan. Stadium, sports hall, sports facilities and 79 new hectares of forested area! Venice will finally have a new epicenter of sport, sociality, inclusion and sustainability!


The project lies in the Municipality of Venice (city proper), east of Mestre. It's 9 km from the famous Saint Mark square as the crow flies. In detail, the project would be realized just in front of the Venezia Marco Polo intercontinental airport (south); and the Dese river (north); not so far from the Venice casino (the new one, not the historical seat). A new rail station should be created to serve the site. The site is also directly served by the national highway Tangenziale di Venezia Mestre. In the transports term, the new sports plants would be located in a better location than the Luigi Penzo stadium (where the Venezia FC plays) which is located on a little island of the lagoon.


























Venice gives green light to ‘Bosco dello Sport’ venture


Venice City Council has approved investment of €283.5m (£237.8m/$306.8m) in a project that will be underpinned by a sports complex...




www.thestadiumbusiness.com


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## IThomas

IThomas said:


> *The new "Pinto" stadium is getting closer and closer to being born. *The Municipality has announced that the final project was approved.
> 
> The post on Facebook - *"The Municipal Council of Caserta has approved the final project of demolition and reconstruction of the Alberto Pinto Stadium ". This provision concludes the bureaucratic process* started with the calling of the Services Conference which, during the sessions, made it possible to obtain the understandings, opinions, concessions, authorizations, licenses, clearances and assents necessary for reach the declaration of public interest and the definitive project proposal. On 26/05/2021 the final report of the preliminary Services Conference had been sent to the Campania Region for publication in the BURC and then published in number 55 of 31/05/2021. Finally, on 23/09/2021, with executive deed no. 1516, the final decision of the decision-making Services Conference was approved.* The total cost of the work amounts to 51,419,936 Euros*".
> 
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> Facebook
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> L'Avellino sogna il nuovo stadio, a Caserta sta per diventare realtà
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> Importanti novità a pochi kilometri di distanza dal capoluogo irpino. Ecco quanto costerà l'impianto
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> www.ottopagine.it
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> Casertana, ecco il nuovo stadio - Il Corriere del Pallone
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> Dopo l'annuncio di ieri sera, avanzato dal sindaco Carlo Marino durante la presentazione ufficiale della Casertana, è arrivato il comunicato ufficiale del
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ilcorrieredelpallone.it


FINALLY!

The public tender for the construction of the new Casertina FC Stadium worth +51 million euros was published.

It should be noted that from the approval of the Italian legislation relating to the construction of sports facilities, aimed at encouraging the construction of new owned stadiums, the Municipality of Caserta is the first city to reach the conclusion of the bureaucratic process up to the announcement and the beginning of the tender for the award and execution of the work that officially starts today.

Therefore, if no one comes to this call for tenders, the work will be entrusted to the person who presented the project, i.e. to the companies formed by the Santa Rita / Aurora Immobiliare consortium (the real estate group that helped Frosinone FC to build the Frosinone stadium), if it will be a more advantageous offer, the tender will be entrusted to the latter and the "presenters" will have an indemnity for the expenses incurred for the presentation of the project (approximately € 1 million).

*The deadline of the call is set for June 9th, a little patience and starting from June 10th we will know who won the tender!

The construction site is scheduled to open in September. The existing Municipal stadium Alberto Pinto will face demolition.

CASERTANA FOOTBALL CLUB STADIUM (12000). 90-years surface rights.















*














Casertana, la lunga attesa è finita: al via la gara per il nuovo stadio Pinto


Il bando per la demolizione e ricostruzione dello stadio Pinto è stato pubblicato all'Albo pretorio del Comune di Caserta. Via alla gara d'appalto da 51 milioni di euro che...




www.ilmattino.it







https://www.casertanews.it/attualita/bando-stadio-casertana.html


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## IThomas

*New Porta Elisa stadium, the preliminary project gets 'public interest' status.*

The City Council of Lucca has unanimously declared the feasibility project submitted by the RTI (composed of Lucchese FC 1905, Aurora Immobiliare and Consorzio Stabile Santa Rita) to be of "public interest". The project involves the construction of a new stadium with 12,000 seats (expandable to 16,000) on the same site of the Municipality-owned Porta Elisa Stadium. The private development of the local football club, which currently plays in the Serie C League and aims at the 90-years surface rights, includes an integrated commercial-tertiary structure, also offering services such as a medical and wellness center with a swimming pool.













































Studi medici, centro bellezza e negozi: ecco cosa andrà dentro il nuovo stadio a Lucca


Si prevede di incassare 5 milioni l’anno dei fondi realizzati nel Porta Elisa: ci sarà un grande magazzino di articoli sportivi




iltirreno.gelocal.it












Nuovo stadio Porta Elisa: cinque livelli con negozi, centri medici, palestre e piscine e anche una foresteria per i calciatori - Luccaindiretta


Primo ok in commissione urbanistica e lavori pubblici. Scontro Barsanti-Martinelli sul tema della media distribuzione nella struttura




www.luccaindiretta.it


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## IThomas

*PalaTerni (Terni, Umbria)*
Capacity | 4,320 (sports events); 5,500 (music events). + 4,000 outdoor.
Design | Team Baldi Margheriti Associati

A new multi-use arena for the city of Terni (107k municipality; 218k province), located in the Umbria region. The public-private partnership development also includes a commercial and food area (Conad, Decathlon, Unieuro, McDonald's, RoadHouse are among the brands that have already shown interest to take spaces). The project's area includes a central square for outdoor events and parking. The project is strongly contextualized in a vast and strategic urban reconstruction operation with connections also with the fluvial park and the banks of the Nera river, already in an advanced stage of redevelopment.


























https://www.ternitoday.it/attualita/pala-terni-catena-ristorazione-progetto-stadio-terni-2021.html





http://www.salcspa.com/tag/palaterni/


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## RMB2007

Padova











__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1533554621750329344


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## RMB2007

Lazio at the Flaminio? Confidential meeting between Lotito and Gualtieri

Lazio also want their own stadium. The romantic Flaminio hypothesis returns but the problems to be solved are not few









La Lazio al Flaminio? Incontro riservato tra Lotito e Gualtieri


Anche la Lazio vuole il proprio stadio. Torna la romantica ipotesi Flaminio ma i problemi da risolvere non sono pochi




www.ilgiornale.it


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## RMB2007

^^^

Claudio Lotito has just over a month to show that he wants to make Flaminio the new Lazio stadium

As reported by Repubblica , the Municipality is in a hurry. Alessandro Onorato , councilor for Sport, Tourism and Major Events of the Gualtieri junta, reiterated this on several occasions: the plant designed by the Nervi, father and son, for the 1960 Olympics cannot remain abandoned to itself for long .









Nuovo stadio Lazio: per il Flaminio c’è una deadline di 45 giorni. I dettagli


Leggi questa notizia su OneFootball.




onefootball.com


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## CWells2000

AS Roma have been interested in this site as well.


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## RMB2007

Roma are no longer interested in the Flaminio.


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## MikkelAndersen

RMB2007 said:


> Roma are no longer interested in the Flaminio.





RMB2007 said:


> Roma are no longer interested in the Flaminio.


Only in Italy you rebuild outdated ruins. Sadly. 
These clubs should build from scratch:
Milan 65.000
Inter 65.000
Roma 52.000
Napoli 45.000
Lazio 45.000
Fiorentina 41.000
Forget about the old stadiums.
Bologna's reconstruction is the only one which looks exciting.
Build like Bayern Munich.


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## IThomas

RMB2007 said:


> ^^^
> 
> Claudio Lotito has just over a month to show that he wants to make Flaminio the new Lazio stadium
> 
> As reported by Repubblica , the Municipality is in a hurry. Alessandro Onorato , councilor for Sport, Tourism and Major Events of the Gualtieri junta, reiterated this on several occasions: the plant designed by the Nervi, father and son, for the 1960 Olympics cannot remain abandoned to itself for long .
> 
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> Nuovo stadio Lazio: per il Flaminio c’è una deadline di 45 giorni. I dettagli
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> 
> Leggi questa notizia su OneFootball.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> onefootball.com


The news was incomplete. Here are more details.

*Future of Flaminio: Lotito seems interested, SS Lazio has 45 days to present a preliminary proposal.*
In the alternative, the Cassa Depositi e Prestiti's plan will go forward.

The President of SS Lazio, Claudio Lotito, has a maximum of 45 days at disposal. Then, if he does not present a preliminary proposal with the Lazio colors at the Campidoglio, the Biancocelesti risk losing forever the possibility of playing at the Flaminio (1960 Olympics Stadium), making it their home. (...) The Municipality of Rome is in a hurry. The Capitoline administration will not wait long before opening the "Conferenza dei Servizi" on another proposal presented by Italy's State lender Cassa Depositi e Prestiti in collaboration with the Italian Institute for Sports Credit and Italian Sports Ministry (...)

Lotito, in a meeting with Mayor Roberto Gualtieri, said that he was interested in the Flaminio. But also not to be ready to make any agreement if, in addition to the stadium, Lazio does not have spaces - look at the site occupied by old military barracks in via Guido Reni - to build commercial and tertiary activities. The Municipality said there is not any closure on that topic, but to start any kind of speech, a preliminary project is needed. (...) In the event that Lotito won't invest, the Municipality will go on with a plan already being studied by the Capitoline technicians, that of the "Città dello Sport", branded Cassa Depositi e Prestiti. (...)












CWells2000 said:


> AS Roma have been interested in this site as well.


AS Roma's new owner Friedkin is working with the Municipality to build a new stadium from the scratch in Pietralata, nearby the Roma Tiburtina Station (city's second busiest rail station). We are waiting to know more.


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## CWells2000

IThomas said:


> The news was incomplete. Here are more details.
> 
> *Future of Flaminio: Lotito seems interested, SS Lazio has 45 days to present a preliminary proposal.*
> In the alternative, the Cassa Depositi e Prestiti's plan will go forward.
> 
> The President of SS Lazio, Claudio Lotito, has a maximum of 45 days at disposal. Then, if he does not present a preliminary proposal with the Lazio colors at the Campidoglio, the Biancocelesti risk losing forever the possibility of playing at the Flaminio (1960 Olympics Stadium), making it their home. (...) The Municipality of Rome is in a hurry. The Capitoline administration will not wait long before opening the "Conferenza dei Servizi" on another proposal presented by Italy's State lender Cassa Depositi e Prestiti in collaboration with the Italian Institute for Sports Credit and Italian Sports Ministry (...)
> 
> Lotito, in a meeting with Mayor Roberto Gualtieri, said that he was interested in the Flaminio. But also not to be ready to make any agreement if, in addition to the stadium, Lazio does not have spaces - look at the site occupied by old military barracks in via Guido Reni - to build commercial and tertiary activities. The Municipality said there is not any closure on that topic, but to start any kind of speech, a preliminary project is needed. (...) In the event that Lotito won't invest, the Municipality will go on with a plan already being studied by the Capitoline technicians, that of the "Città dello Sport", branded Cassa Depositi e Prestiti. (...)
> 
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> AS Roma's new owner Friedkin is working with the Municipality to build a new stadium from the scratch in Pietralata, nearby the Roma Tiburtina Station (city's second busiest rail station). We are waiting to know more.


Right ok.

I wonder what realistically Lazio could do to the Flaminio. I dont think they will be able to demolish it because there is some kind of preservation order if im not mistaken? and no one has used the stadium itself for a few years, so there will be a fair bit of renovation work to complete.

If im thinking realistically, they could build a new roof over the uncovered sections of the stadium and perhaps add VIP areas in the main stand of the Flamino as well as adding new seats and putting in a new pitch as well.

But overall I think a capacity of 30,000 is reasonable for Lazio, given they only average around that amount at the Stadio Olimpico.


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## IThomas

CWells2000 said:


> Right ok.
> 
> I wonder what realistically Lazio could do to the Flaminio. I dont think they will be able to demolish it because there is some kind of preservation order if im not mistaken? and no one has used the stadium itself for a few years, so there will be a fair bit of renovation work to complete.
> 
> If im thinking realistically, they could build a new roof over the uncovered sections of the stadium and perhaps add VIP areas in the main stand of the Flamino as well as adding new seats and putting in a new pitch as well.
> 
> But overall I think a capacity of 30,000 is reasonable for Lazio, given they only average around that amount at the Stadio Olimpico.


If public and private sides will have a deal, SS Lazio can get 99-year surface rights or something similar. But we'll see if Lotito wants to invest for real.

There are no athletics tracks in the Flaminio, and it's a good thing. Well, I think the likely main interventions that they can do are add a new roof (and facades?), and create SkyBox spaces and services/commercial areas below curves and tribunes. The stands - if do not meet current FIFA standards - could be reshaped as it will happen in Florence's Stadio Franchi.



>



This is the Flaminio when used by rugby clubs










For those interested in the Flaminio - here is a 308 pages document:

"Conservation Plan of the Flaminio Stadium", published in 2020 and created under the umbrella of the "Keeping it Modern" initiative by Getty Foundation, in collaboration with the city of Rome and Rome La Sapienza University. The work involved a team of 36 specialists in the drafting of an in-depth historical-critical study of the stadium and its urban context, in the development of an organic database, in the development of digital models, etc.

link >


https://www.getty.edu/foundation/pdfs/kim/univ_roma_stadio_flaminio_cmp.pdf


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## eurocup2016

MikkelAndersen said:


> Only in Italy you rebuild outdated ruins. Sadly.
> These clubs should build from scratch:
> Milan 65.000
> Inter 65.000
> Roma 52.000
> Napoli 45.000
> Lazio 45.000
> Fiorentina 41.000
> Forget about the old stadiums.
> Bologna's reconstruction is the only one which looks exciting.
> Build like Bayern Munich.


I've been saying the same but many disagree that modernizing the current stadiums with restrictions is the way to go. If Lazio needs a 45K stadium I'm sure Napoli can push for something closer to 50K. Bologna's refurb looks promising unlike Atalanta's Gewiss stadium which looks awful.


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## eurocup2016

RMB2007 said:


> Lazio at the Flaminio? Confidential meeting between Lotito and Gualtieri
> 
> Lazio also want their own stadium. The romantic Flaminio hypothesis returns but the problems to be solved are not few
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> La Lazio al Flaminio? Incontro riservato tra Lotito e Gualtieri
> 
> 
> Anche la Lazio vuole il proprio stadio. Torna la romantica ipotesi Flaminio ma i problemi da risolvere non sono pochi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ilgiornale.it


Not a lot of space and heritage protection laws that will limit what can be done. This will go nowhere and Lazio will have to look elsewhere. Only in Italy would they rather let an unused stadium decay than build something new on the same plot of land.


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## IThomas

eurocup2016 said:


> Not a lot of space and heritage protection laws that will limit what can be done. This will go nowhere and Lazio will have to look elsewhere. Only in Italy would they rather let an unused stadium decay than build something new on the same plot of land.


Rome Mayor gave Lotito the "last chance" to take the public-owned Flaminio stadium. He is not obliged to say 'yes'. Last chance because Lazio FC always said to be "interested" in the Flaminio, but without never presenting a real preliminary design proposal, something that would allow to begin a speech between the two sides and find a deal. In the case that Lazio FC says 'no' in the end, another proposal for the Flaminio, financed by Cassa Depositi e Prestiti, Istituto per il Credito Sportivo, Sport e Salute, will go forward. According to La Gazzetta dello Sport newspaper, it would be an 80 million euros plan based on the "conservation plan" realized by a study conducted by Getty Foundation and Rome La Sapienza University.

Anyway, it is interesting to understand if Lotito would present an alternative proposal, should the Flaminio option fail.
On the other hand, you have Dan Friedkin who wants to build the AS Roma stadium from the scratch. He met city officials to find the site.
We will see if Lotito makes fun of Lazio fans once again, just like De Laurentiis does with those of Napoli.


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## RMB2007

Lazio, Lotito: "I will make the new stadium". But the Flaminio only on 3 conditions ...

On the table there is always the Flaminio , on which until 2049 there are the bonds of the Nervi family that make the transformation in the Lazio stadium difficult. In fact, Lotito would accept the idea only under 3 conditions: the capacity must be 35-40 thousand, the stands must be covered and there must be a multi-storey car park with 5 thousand seats.









Lazio, Lotito: "Farò il nuovo stadio". Ma il Flaminio è difficile...


Lazio, il patron ha ripreso in mano il progetto: entro 2 mesi lo consegnerà al Comune di Roma “Farò il nuovo stadio della Lazio. Come ho già ricostruito il centro sportivo di Formello che tutti ci invidiano”. Il virgolettato del patron biancoceleste pubblicato dal Corriere dello Sport fa sognare...




www.sololalazio.it


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## IThomas

So, the article adds ...



> "Within a couple of months Lotito will present the project to the Municipality of Rome: if it is not at the Flaminio, another area will be sought, such as that of the Tiberina, where the President has land owned"


So, in the alternative, will he try again with the Tiberina area? Good luck. The area is at a flooding risk.
It is clear that he will make fun of fans once again. Give a look at the comments below the article. Lazio fans call him "buffoon" lol.


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## Axelferis

RMB2007 said:


> Lazio, Lotito: "I will make the new stadium". But the Flaminio only on 3 conditions ...
> 
> On the table there is always the Flaminio , on which until 2049 there are the bonds of the Nervi family that make the transformation in the Lazio stadium difficult. In fact, Lotito would accept the idea only under 3 conditions: the capacity must be 35-40 thousand, the stands must be covered and there must be a multi-storey car park with 5 thousand seats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Lazio, Lotito: "Farò il nuovo stadio". Ma il Flaminio è difficile...
> 
> 
> Lazio, il patron ha ripreso in mano il progetto: entro 2 mesi lo consegnerà al Comune di Roma “Farò il nuovo stadio della Lazio. Come ho già ricostruito il centro sportivo di Formello che tutti ci invidiano”. Il virgolettato del patron biancoceleste pubblicato dal Corriere dello Sport fa sognare...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sololalazio.it



This Lotito guy just know to talk. His words are not worth to be trusted.

He just want to make lazio supporters dreaming.


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## slipperydog

*Ternana*

The City Council of Terni has approved a new stadium project for Italian Serie B football club Ternana.

The project will see Ternana’s current Stadio Libero Liberati transformed into a new venue with a capacity of 18,037. The project, which Ternana officially presented in February, also includes the construction of a state-of-the-art clinic.

The current stadium has a capacity of 15,000 seats, of which only 5,300 are covered. The new stadium would feature completely covered stands and would also incorporate a new club museum.

The new clinic would provide space for 203 beds, with Ternana president Stefano Bandecchi stating both facilities would be state-of-the-art. Bandecchi has said the stadium will be capable of hosting UEFA Champions League or FIFA World Cup matches in the future.

Ternana has played at the Libero Liberati since the stadium opened in 1969. The new project comes with a total price tag of close to €62.2m (£52.7m/$63.2m).

Project manager Sergio Anibaldi said in February that the contract to begin work on the stadium could be signed in September, with a view to commencing construction in February 2023.

It is hoped the new stadium could be finished by 2025, which would coincide with centenary celebrations for Ternana.









Council approves Ternana stadium project


The City Council of Terni has approved a new stadium project for Italian Serie B football club Ternana. The project...




www.thestadiumbusiness.com


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## IThomas

slipperydog said:


> *Ternana*
> 
> The City Council of Terni has approved a new stadium project for Italian Serie B football club Ternana.
> 
> The project will see Ternana’s current Stadio Libero Liberati transformed into a new venue with a capacity of 18,037. The project, which Ternana officially presented in February, also includes the construction of a state-of-the-art clinic.
> 
> The current stadium has a capacity of 15,000 seats, of which only 5,300 are covered. The new stadium would feature completely covered stands and would also incorporate a new club museum.
> 
> The new clinic would provide space for 203 beds, with Ternana president Stefano Bandecchi stating both facilities would be state-of-the-art. Bandecchi has said the stadium will be capable of hosting UEFA Champions League or FIFA World Cup matches in the future.
> 
> Ternana has played at the Libero Liberati since the stadium opened in 1969. The new project comes with a total price tag of close to €62.2m (£52.7m/$63.2m).
> 
> Project manager Sergio Anibaldi said in February that the contract to begin work on the stadium could be signed in September, with a view to commencing construction in February 2023.
> 
> It is hoped the new stadium could be finished by 2025, which would coincide with centenary celebrations for Ternana.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> Council approves Ternana stadium project
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> 
> The City Council of Terni has approved a new stadium project for Italian Serie B football club Ternana. The project...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thestadiumbusiness.com


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## IThomas

Updates from* Cremona*

The local football club is doing some upgrading works at the *Zini Stadium* (20,641)


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## IThomas

Terni - Ternana FC - New Liberati Stadium (18,500)


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