# What is the truth about Dubai?



## deambulante (Apr 4, 2006)

I have never heard so much hype about a city in my life. Every forum I go to, and not just at SkyscraperCity, there's some new thread about some mega project in Dubai. Nothing wrong with that, but I've always wondered if there just a bit too much megaphoning going on.

And then a friend of mine says that a lot of the buildings in Dubai are actually vacant. They were built, and now they sit there.

Can someone tell me if he was lying or is that a correct statement? If so, have developers in Dubai gone insane?

I really need some first-hand accounts on what is the truth about this.


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## crazyeight (Dec 18, 2004)

Your friend has got his facts wrong. There is more demand than supply. All the hype about Dubai is due to it's location and out of this world projects. Other than that, it's just a normal city that is going through a construction boom and in the near future all the controversy will decrease as its construction boom comes to an end.


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## Bertez (Jul 9, 2005)

If they can fill them up, then there is no problem of building as many towers as you want


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## malec (Apr 17, 2005)

The answer can be found here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=300575&page=1


Of course, the city is not without its bad (although improving) aspects either:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=330106&page=1


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## oskarj (Mar 15, 2006)

crazyeight said:


> Your friend has got his facts wrong. There is more demand than supply. All the hype about Dubai is due to it's location and out of this world projects. Other than that, it's just a normal city that is going through a construction boom and in the near future all the controversy will decrease as its construction boom comes to an end.


Could you give me a source that back up your statement because i find it very hard to believe that theres a higher demand then supply in a small city like Dubai.


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## VanSeaPor (Mar 12, 2005)

If you ask me, Dubai is to the people of today as what New York was to the people of the Industrial Revolution and early 20th Century. A booming dream city.


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## KB (Feb 22, 2006)

oskarj said:


> Could you give me a source that back up your statement because i find it very hard to believe that theres a higher demand then supply in a small city like Dubai.


The simplest proof is a logical one... If your previous buildings are still lying vacant, why would you go on building new ones. And seeing the pace at which new projects are being announced every now and then, i would definitely believe that statement. 

Even if we were to believe the builder of the tallest building is just doing it for fame, what about the dozens of other tower construction going on that are medium height skyscrapers.


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## Bertez (Jul 9, 2005)

I have a question....what is the main source(s) of the boom, and what is Dubai's economy based on?? Thanks in advanced


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

deambulante said:


> I have never heard so much hype about a city in my life. Every forum I go to, and not just at SkyscraperCity, there's some new thread about some mega project in Dubai. Nothing wrong with that, but I've always wondered if there just a bit too much megaphoning going on.
> 
> And then a friend of mine says that a lot of the buildings in Dubai are actually vacant. They were built, and now they sit there.
> 
> ...


If you really want a first-hand account, then you have to book your plane ticket and go (come) see it for your self. All the other talk is useless and serves no purpose.


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

oskarj said:


> Could you give me a source that back up your statement because i find it very hard to believe that theres a higher demand then supply in a small city like Dubai.


just look at the inflation


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

deambulante said:


> I
> And then a friend of mine says that a lot of the buildings in Dubai are actually vacant. They were built, and now they sit there.


nah, only a few projects have been completed. a lot arent even u/c


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## cHemon (Mar 23, 2004)

What is the fresh water source in Dubai?

:?


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## Æsahættr (Jul 9, 2004)

Desalinization


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## cHemon (Mar 23, 2004)

How many of them will be sufficient for all those people, trees, green lawn??


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

no idea. but water shortages are one of the more serious long-term issues facing the region


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## FM 2258 (Jan 24, 2004)

luv2bebrown said:


> no idea. but water shortages are one of the more serious long-term issues facing the region



I was wondering about their water supply as well. I know that there is something called Dubai Creek but I'm not too sure how much water it produces. On another note, how does Dubai produce it's electricity? It's not like there is ample terrain to build a dam for renewable energy. 

All questions aside, I'm glad to see Dubai grow like it is but I still want to quench my thirst for knowledge on how a desert/gulf city survives and thrives.


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## SUNNI (Sep 20, 2002)

The basic principle to Dubai is that if they build, people will come. Ofcourse we will have to wait and see if thatll happen. But the location is very good, it can potentially become the center of trade between east asia and Europe.


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

FM 2258 said:


> I was wondering about their water supply as well. I know that there is something called Dubai Creek but I'm not too sure how much water it produces. On another note, how does Dubai produce it's electricity? It's not like there is ample terrain to build a dam for renewable energy.
> 
> All questions aside, I'm glad to see Dubai grow like it is but I still want to quench my thirst for knowledge on how a desert/gulf city survives and thrives.


dubai gets its electricity from oil as far as i know.
dubai creek is just an water inlet. kinda like a river-shaped bay i guess. it has nothin to do with water or energy production.

i know there are plans to build more desalination plants and new buildings are utilizing various green friendly technologies. but overall, Dubai consumes too much, and efforts are being undertaken to reduce its impact on the environment.


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## Mosaic (Feb 18, 2005)

luv2bebrown said:


> no idea. but water shortages are one of the more serious long-term issues facing the region


Is fresh water in Dubai expensive? I guess it is .


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## Mosaic (Feb 18, 2005)

SUNNI said:


> The basic principle to Dubai is that if they build, people will come. Ofcourse we will have to wait and see if thatll happen. But the location is very good, it can potentially become the center of trade between east asia and Europe.


Will this bring a chaotic traffic jam , water shortage and so on.?


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## Mosaic (Feb 18, 2005)

kbboy said:


> The simplest proof is a logical one... If your previous buildings are still lying vacant, why would you go on building new ones. And seeing the pace at which new projects are being announced every now and then, i would definitely believe that statement.
> 
> Even if we were to believe the builder of the tallest building is just doing it for fame, what about the dozens of other tower construction going on that are medium height skyscrapers.


So there is no bubble at all in Dubai's property sector...you mean?


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## polako (Apr 7, 2005)

Dubai is headed for a major economic crash.


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## DonQui (Jan 10, 2005)

^^ What makes you say that? :?

They have a fairly diversified economy, and I am convinced that IF (and ONLY if) social reforms eventually keep up with economic progress (which they invariably do), that Dubai will not "crash."


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## Imperfect Ending (Apr 7, 2003)

Dubai/UAE has to stay in the economy somehow after oil runs out.


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## oskarj (Mar 15, 2006)

once again im waiting for a source dont tell me whats logical it doesnt answer my question.


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## SUNNI (Sep 20, 2002)

Mosaic said:


> Will this bring a chaotic traffic jam , water shortage and so on.?


depends on the demands, also how things turn out and how they structure the massive projects


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## SUNNI (Sep 20, 2002)

Aquamadoor said:


> Dubai/UAE has to stay in the economy somehow after oil runs out.


Yes, thats the reason Dubai is building so much. They are getting ready, because they know the oil will run out someday.

But that said, the oil plays a smaller part of UAE's economy than everyone thinks, so it shouldnt have that much of an impact as to staying in the economy.


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## Imperfect Ending (Apr 7, 2003)

I'm really trying not to argue but :

"The UAE has an open economy with a high per capita income and a sizable annual trade surplus.* Its wealth is based on oil and gas output *(about 30% of GDP), and the fortunes of the economy fluctuate with the prices of those commodities. Since the discovery of oil in the UAE more than 30 years ago, the UAE has undergone a profound transformation from an impoverished region of small desert principalities to a modern state with a high standard of living. At present levels of production, oil and gas reserves should last for more than 100 years. The government has increased spending on job creation and infrastructure expansion and is opening up its utilities to greater private sector involvement. Higher oil revenue, strong liquidity, and cheap credit in 2005 led to a surge in asset prices (shares and real estate) and consumer inflation. Any sharp correction to the UAE's equity markets could damage investor and consumer sentiment and affect bank asset quality. In April 2004, the UAE signed a Trade and Investment Framework Agreement (TIFA) with Washington and in November 2004 agreed to undertake negotiations toward a Free Trade Agreement (FTA) with the US. "

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ae.html


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## Mosaic (Feb 18, 2005)

SUNNI said:


> depends on the demands, also how things turn out and how they structure the massive projects


as we can see there are all of buildings and buildings not many wide road or mass transit system, I don't see that they are going to build underground train, expressway, tollway or something except skyscrapers and regular roads.


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## samsonyuen (Sep 23, 2003)

Oil is the main source of income, hence the diversification into tourism industries (resorts, airlines) and becoming the economic hub of the Middle East region, because they are smart to realize that oil will run out eventually.


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## Dubai-Lover (Jul 4, 2004)

to clarify something regarding the occupancy of new buildings
let's take an example, falcon tower

this tower has just opened when i was there to take photos, mid february
there is no access road for the tower, the infrastructure is not existing!

yet, the tower is fully booked and occupied and i found tons of cars
falcon tower is next to the hypergigantic construction sites of business bay and the burj dubai complex, one of the world's largest construction sites, in fact, whole city districts are under c here!!

this is the driveway to the tower, still being used to serve major construction sites









the area around the tower was full of cars, as well as between the tower and the car park building










and now this, in the tower's car park i found this:

ferrari 360 modena









bentley continental









maserati coupe











any questions???


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## SUNNI (Sep 20, 2002)

how come dubai only has shitty cars?


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## Imperfect Ending (Apr 7, 2003)

hahahaha 


(yes I must waste a post for that.)


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## OshHisham (Nov 14, 2005)

some say that half of Dubaian are immigrants.....and most of the immigrants are illegal...it that true.


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## D'Transporter (Dec 23, 2005)

Dubai greatly depends on oil and gas, what happens when it runs out in a couple of hundred years?? Dubai is going to go down faster than it went up.


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## Xusein (Sep 27, 2005)

Only about 6 percent of Dubai's economy is tied to oil, so take that out of the picture...


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## oskarj (Mar 15, 2006)

rotten is right according to wikipedia oil only stands for 6 %, the main gdp comes from something called "Jebel Ali Free Zone".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai


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## Kngkyle (Feb 7, 2006)

oshkoshbgood said:


> some say that half of Dubaian are immigrants.....and most of the immigrants are illegal...it that true.


There are a lot of immigrants, but i don't think they are illegal. Like 99% of them are the ones who are actually building Dubai. The construction companies hire hundreds of thousands of workers from india and pakistan. They work for dirt cheap... but lately they have been rioting because of poor living conditions. There are some other threads around here about that.


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## KB (Feb 22, 2006)

D'Transporter said:


> Dubai greatly depends on oil and gas, what happens when it runs out in a couple of hundred years?? Dubai is going to go down faster than it went up.


Actually dubai's oil and gas will run out within 10 yrs at max. Dubai is here to stay with or without oil. Consider the following facts:

1. Oil and Gas actually accounts for only 6-10% GDP.
2.Dubai has thriving manufacturing, finance, information technology and tourism sectors and is home to numerous multinational companies such as AT&T, General Motors, Heinz, IBM, Shell, and Sony.
3.financial services industry grew by a remarkable 12 percent per annum during the 1990s and this trend seems set to continue.
4.The tourist industry is the fastest growing sector within Dubai's economy. Expected tourist inflow is 10million a yr by 2010(country's pop is <1 million)
5.Dubai Intl airport is expected to host 30million passengers a yr in 2010.
6.The dubai port authority(DPA) was recently awarded the 'Best Seaport in the Middle East' award for the *9th* consecutive year, at the Asian Freight & Supply Chain Industry Awards. 
7.The trade sector is the biggest employer, accounting for 25 per cent of employment, followed by manufacturing, construction and services. Government services were responsible for employing 9 percent of the workforce. 
8.Dubai international airport is second only to Tokyo in the number of daily transit passengers it handles and second only to Seattle as a sea-air hub. Its harbor is the most important port in the Middle East and is ranked among the world's top 15 in terms of container throughput.
9.Dubai's economy is estimated to be growing at closer to 10% per year. 

and the list goes on......... :cheers: 


Source:
http://www.usatoday.com/marketplace/ibi/dubai.htm
http://www.lowtax.net/lowtax/html/dubai/jdbcfir.html


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## VanSeaPor (Mar 12, 2005)

Oil only accounts for a small percentage of GDP as numerous people have said, the city should come out ok when oil runs out.

I would suggest a new monorail or even subway be built in Dubai sometime in the next ten years. The city should also claim the world's largest solar power plant.


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## KB (Feb 22, 2006)

Aquamadoor said:


> I'm really trying not to argue but :
> 
> "The UAE has an open economy with a high per capita income and a sizable annual trade surplus.* Its wealth is based on oil and gas output *(about 30% of GDP), and the fortunes of the economy fluctuate with the prices of those commodities. Since the discovery of oil in the UAE more than 30 years ago, the UAE has undergone a profound transformation from an impoverished region of small desert principalities to a modern state with a high standard of living. At present levels of production, oil and gas reserves should last for more than 100 years. The government has increased spending on job creation and infrastructure expansion and is opening up its utilities to greater private sector involvement. Higher oil revenue, strong liquidity, and cheap credit in 2005 led to a surge in asset prices (shares and real estate) and consumer inflation. Any sharp correction to the UAE's equity markets could damage investor and consumer sentiment and affect bank asset quality. In April 2004, the UAE signed a Trade and Investment Framework Agreement (TIFA) with Washington and in November 2004 agreed to undertake negotiations toward a Free Trade Agreement (FTA) with the US. "
> 
> http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ae.html


You are confusing dubai with the whole of UAE. Abu dhabi generates 80-85% of that oil, and which will last for maybe upto a hundred yr at current rate of expoitation. Dubai and sharjah, together contribute the major part of the remaining 15% of oil and gas, with dubai's resources estimated to be exhauted in just 10 yrs.


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## KB (Feb 22, 2006)

VanSeaPor said:


> The city should also claim the world's largest solar power plant.


Is that a upcoming project or part of your suggestion? :? 
with dubai, anything can be expected!


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## polako (Apr 7, 2005)

DonQui said:


> ^^ What makes you say that? :?
> 
> They have a fairly diversified economy, and I am convinced that IF (and ONLY if) social reforms eventually keep up with economic progress (which they invariably do), that Dubai will not "crash."


Economics. The longer an economy grows without a correction the worst the recession that will follow. Every economy goes through cycles :









All I'm saying is that every booming economy always goes into a major recession and the recovery is hard. It's a fact.


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

oskarj said:


> once again im waiting for a source dont tell me whats logical it doesnt answer my question.


google.com


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

polako said:


> Economics. The longer an economy grows without a correction the worst the recession that will follow. Every economy goes through cycles :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


in the 40 years since oil was discovered and development began, there has never been a crash or recession in dubai. what is the reason for that?


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## polako (Apr 7, 2005)

luv2bebrown said:


> in the 40 years since oil was discovered and development began, there has never been a crash or recession in dubai. what is the reason for that?


If what you said is true then that means Dubai only has seasonal(monthly) corrections. It has an extremely shock absorbent economy probably because it is in the Middle East.


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## VanSeaPor (Mar 12, 2005)

kbboy said:


> Is that a upcoming project or part of your suggestion? :?
> with dubai, anything can be expected!


Part of my suggestion.


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## bustero (Dec 20, 2004)

In a much hyped place, the truth is most probably somewhere in the middle. It's a fact that There is a great big building boom going on for sure, whether demand will meet suplly and whether all the proposals will get built remains to be seen. At this point very difficult to get good facts and statistics on the actual amount of sq.m. to be delivered over the next 5 years on and match them up with actual occupancy. What you have is a lot of anecdotal evidence of people actually living in this units. As a real estate person I need to see the claims of fundamental demand driven by some numbers such as permanent residencies permits given or increase in birth rate. So far I've not seen this. It's easy to get caught up with the hype of this being the next New York as claimed by some or the center of mid east, and maybe it will be though I would not put any money on it. I think this place is already wildly succesfull though, within my lifetime I've seen it grow from nothing to at least a pretender as a world city if not more. I actually think though that this place is a huge property bubble if all those projects get off the ground even to financial closing, but will still be succesfull in the long run but probably not as what many people who hype the place make it to be. Maybe some sort of Las Vegas of the Region. It's also critical to see what the effect of teh 787 and point to point travel will turn out versus Dubai's bet of hub and spoke. Even so at the very least it will be on the tourism map for some time to come.


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

polako said:


> If what you said is true then that means Dubai only has seasonal(monthly) corrections. It has an extremely shock absorbent economy probably because it is in the Middle East.


so im guessing thats a good thing?


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## Mosaic (Feb 18, 2005)

Aquamadoor said:


> I'm really trying not to argue but :
> 
> "The UAE has an open economy with a high per capita income and a sizable annual trade surplus.* Its wealth is based on oil and gas output *(about 30% of GDP), and the fortunes of the economy fluctuate with the prices of those commodities. Since the discovery of oil in the UAE more than 30 years ago, the UAE has undergone a profound transformation from an impoverished region of small desert principalities to a modern state with a high standard of living. At present levels of production, oil and gas reserves should last for more than 100 years. The government has increased spending on job creation and infrastructure expansion and is opening up its utilities to greater private sector involvement. Higher oil revenue, strong liquidity, and cheap credit in 2005 led to a surge in asset prices (shares and real estate) and consumer inflation. Any sharp correction to the UAE's equity markets could damage investor and consumer sentiment and affect bank asset quality. In April 2004, the UAE signed a Trade and Investment Framework Agreement (TIFA) with Washington and in November 2004 agreed to undertake negotiations toward a Free Trade Agreement (FTA) with the US. "
> 
> http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ae.html


That's sensible enough, I quite agree with that.


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## KB (Feb 22, 2006)

Mosaic said:


> That's sensible enough, I quite agree with that.


Did you read post 39 and 41? dont confuse dubai's economy with the whole of UAE's oil wealth.


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## Mosaic (Feb 18, 2005)

kbboy said:


> Did you read post 39 and 41? dont confuse dubai's economy with the whole of UAE's oil wealth.


Yes,sir. I am confused too. Alright, I will leave this issue on this post then.


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## oskarj (Mar 15, 2006)

VanSeaPor said:


> Oil only accounts for a small percentage of GDP as numerous people have said, the city should come out ok when oil runs out.
> 
> I would suggest a new monorail or even subway be built in Dubai sometime in the next ten years. The city should also claim the world's largest solar power plant.


its probably difficult to build a subway on dessert sand


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## AG (Sep 12, 2002)

oskarj said:


> its probably difficult to build a subway on dessert sand


I'm sure there's solid rock, or at least some kind of ground that is solid enough to support tunnels not far under Dubai.


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## dubaiflo (Jan 3, 2005)

oskarj said:


> its probably difficult to build a subway on dessert sand



http://www.rta.ae/

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=97253

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=280376


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## Nightsky (Sep 16, 2002)

Dubai had 872 700 inhabitants in the city and 1 455 400 inh. in 2002 so why do you call it a small city?
Source: http://www.worldcityphotos.org/topcities/largest-1to4518.txt 

1 182 439 inh. in 2006 according to http://www.world-gazetteer.com/wg.php?x=1145366716&men=gcis&lng=en&dat=32&srt=npan&col=aohdq&geo=-12 (don't know if it is city or metro)
But in 1990 it just had 265 000 inhabitants, just like my city, unbelivable!


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## polako (Apr 7, 2005)

Nightsky said:


> Dubai had 872 700 inhabitants in the city and 1 455 400 inh. in 2002 so why do you call it a small city?
> Source: http://www.worldcityphotos.org/topcities/largest-1to4518.txt
> 
> 1 182 439 inh. in 2006 according to http://www.world-gazetteer.com/wg.php?x=1145366716&men=gcis&lng=en&dat=32&srt=npan&col=aohdq&geo=-12 (don't know if it is city or metro)
> But in 1990 it just had 265 000 inhabitants, just like my city, unbelivable!


You have your stats wrong. That 265,000 figure is from 1980 not 1990. In 2000 the urbanized area had 893,000 people and in 2005 it had 1,026,000. There are plenty of cities in the US that have been growing faster than that.


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## DUBAI (Aug 24, 2004)

polako, you have your figures completly wrong. the 2005 figures from the census have not been released yet.
the last estimate from 2000-02 thought that dubai had 1.2 million people.


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## dubaiflo (Jan 3, 2005)

the new census which is to be released this month is expected to be in the 1.5m - 1.7m range, and Dubai is expected to have over 3m inhabitants in 2015.


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

Nightsky said:


> Dubai had 872 700 inhabitants in the city and 1 455 400 inh. in 2002 so why do you call it a small city?
> QUOTE]
> 
> by world standards, 1.4 million really isnt that big.
> also, when lookin at the Dubai-sharjah metro of around 2.2 million, it would not be fair to call dubai a large city.


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

DUBAI said:


> polako, you have your figures completly wrong. the 2005 figures from the census have not been released yet.
> the last estimate from 2000-02 thought that dubai had 1.2 million people.


yes i have seen government estimates/statistics detailing a 1.4 mil population if i not mistaken.

anyway, the census results will be out in a few days.


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## nefise (Apr 16, 2006)

*dubai*

i see Dubai street scenes but last week my counselor from university went to Dubai for something like 'Dubai's planning decision'.. sth like that i don't care sorry for the topic..scenes.. it's not all about dubai you know.. the streets are generally empty becouse of hot air.. but i'm so sure of that in Dubai there is a very different strategy about those buildings.. my counselor asks ...think about it if a citizen can not own any plot of land why they are so interested about those vacant buildings?? they are rich, why do they needed big emty buildings? 

(do you know something about emir?)
Emir is the owner of possession.. ıt means all of the plot of land:> 

this time i dont care but it seems like they know what to do when their origin sector recent.. may they will be ready with a completed substructure.. cos money is important.. i think it calls 'to act wisely'.
may my knowledge is not true.. but it's what i know about..


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## VanSeaPor (Mar 12, 2005)

oskarj said:


> its probably difficult to build a subway on dessert sand


True, but hey it's Dubai.


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## KB (Feb 22, 2006)

^^ yep! i wont be surprised if they decide to make ( or replace ) it with artificial sand just to make a subway work! :runaway:


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## oskarj (Mar 15, 2006)

That would be very expensive


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

Come guys, the METRO system, consisiting initially of two lines to be compleated by 20010, has already started. Out of a total of 70 - 80 km of trucks, only 10 kn will be undergroung, while the rest will be on a elevated viaduct track. 

Link to SSC threads about the METRO were already posted on post no. 55.


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## Architorture (Sep 22, 2004)

being 'occupied' and having 'tenants' are 2 entirely different things... the spaces in dubai most certainly have tenants, but not nearly all of the spaces are occupied... in many cases its a form of realestate speculation on the part of the developer and the tenant... the developer builds the building often times with a full list of tenants... those tenants though often times are sitting on their agreements waiting for the time and place when they will be able to turn them over to some other tenant and make a profit for themselves...

then you have the out of control health care industry that is growing around dubai for which i can find no explanation... for the population of the city there really should not be a demand for several hospital projects of or approaching 1 million square feet...

within the next 3 years havard dubai is going to open a 1 million square foot general hospital...for who?


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

^^ Dubai's leaders want to make Dubai a hub for alot of things, and they have achieved alot on that regards.

Dubai's progress it's not about serving the day to day needs of the local population at all, rather puting Dubai on the map by making it the hub of Middle East and beyond, attracting as a result business, investments and tourism.

Another thing; there is a missconception especially among North Americans, that Dubai just imports cheap labourt force to serve the local population. That is not totally correct. The foregners in Dubai that makes 85% of the population, are not all un-educated, un-skilled, servant people. There are tens of thousands of foreign expat owned businesses in the city and in the Free (Economic) Zones, with the laters operating almost exclusively internationally. There are thousands of millioners and multi-millioners among the foreigners and most of them are from the same countries as those poor unskilled workers, many here like to talk about.

Dubai is the "Beverly Hills" and "Malibu" of India's elite and "America" of the middle and low class.

BTW, the US Navy's newest, biggest and more powerfull Aircarrier, the Ronald Reagan, is currently docked in Dubai's port of Jebel Ali, the home port of DP World, so much talked about lately in US media and Capital Hill.


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## Blackraven (Jan 19, 2006)

AltinD said:


> Come guys, the METRO system, consisiting initially of two lines to be compleated by 20010, has already started. Out of a total of 70 - 80 km of trucks, only 10 kn will be undergroung, while the rest will be on a elevated viaduct track.
> 
> Link to SSC threads about the METRO were already posted on post no. 55.


Yup, this was very true and I can confirm this.

They will be using the latest trains from Japan (#1 train makers in the world) and they will employ things that you expect in Modern train stations such as:

1) PSDs (prevents stupid/crazy people from jumping of the tracks; already implemented in Hong Kong, Singapore & more than 90% of Japan)
2) Widescreen TVs which either this display info, advertisments, announcements, etc. These will either use the latest Plasma screens or LCD monitors (or even better, OLED or SED displays )
3) Tap card. You just tap your card in the reader and then you can enter. No need to insert coins or even magnetic cards. Cellular/Mobile phones may be used as mode of payment (perhaps in about 5-10 years after)
4) Security cameras all over the place.
5) Super-efficient Air-conditioning in all train stations and inside the trains.
6) Provides connection to the Airport. (Like in HK, SG and Japan)

and the list goes on...


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## Architorture (Sep 22, 2004)

AltinD said:


> ^^ Dubai's leaders want to make Dubai a hub for alot of things, and they have achieved alot on that regards.
> 
> Dubai's progress it's not about serving the day to day needs of the local population at all, rather puting Dubai on the map by making it the hub of Middle East and beyond, attracting as a result business, investments and tourism.
> 
> ...


i'm aware of this... but it still doesn't rectify the whole general hospital situation... it would be one thing if all of these were specialty hospitals or something but they are general hospitals...no different from one you would find anywhere else...the success of most healthcare facilities is largely based on the populations it serves... without a significant need for the services provided there is going to be a few 1 million square foot facilities desperately looking for patients...

as for the cheap labor thing... i'll just say that i'm aware that not only are the lowest paying jobs held by foreign labor but also many of the desk jobs you will find in offices are as well... the dubai office of my firm is predominately staffed by indian architects


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

^^ I'm trying to point out that foreigners don't just work for the locals. A big chunk of them work for themselves, benefiting from the tax-free status and the other benefits Dubai has to offer.

I'm not a local Emirati and I don't work for one. I came here when the company I'm working with, decided to move part of the operation in Dubai, even that our business has almost ZERO activity/turnover in Dubai itself.

As for the Hospitals, you have no idea how many people get cured abroad in foregn countries. You're wrong to asume that any country (apart a handfull of them) can provide all the needed medical services.


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## Architorture (Sep 22, 2004)

most people go abroad for specialty care... most of these facilities are not specialty care facilities... yes some of the projects do house specialty clinics for particular doctors and such... but these mega hospital facilities are no different from other general hospitals all over the world aside from their size and location.... that is the point i am making...

you don't have to defend every piece of development that is going on in dubai... not all of it is 'right' per se

as for the foreign worker point.. .i'm agreeing with you... there is plenty of americans from my firm in dubai right now enjoying their tax free status as the rest of us here in the states just finished turning in our tax forms... and along side them in the office are many indians and others of asian and middle eastern decent working for an american company that is in dubai....

i will say though, even these people are often subject to less pleasing work conditions than will be found in the US.... for example about 14 people in the dubai office work in a space that 4 people work in here in the US... and they are perfectly happy doing it... but its just an example


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## LordMandeep (Apr 10, 2006)

well dubai will grow massive because almost all of the middle east biz goes on from there. Imagined if New York was the only massive city in America, how huge would it be??

If Toronto was the only big city in Canada.
If Mumbai the only big city in India.


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## conquest (Jul 27, 2005)

^^ what about abu dhabi???


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## dubaiflo (Jan 3, 2005)

^^ correct Dubai is NOT the only place in the middle east.

there are cities like Manama, Doha, Kuwait City and of course Abu Dhabi, who have smilar growth rates, but not at such a massive scale.


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## bustero (Dec 20, 2004)

^^This is actually an interesting phenomenom in that Bahrain, Abu Dhabi et al have seen Dubai's success and how it has overtaken them, this competition is now going to be interesting to see, Emirates, well we've got Etihad, Gulf Air, Qatar to hub and spoke as well. The competition for tourism, money center, medical tourism et al is going to be interesting. I don't think the growth expectation for tourism is going to be met in Dubai only because the other Emirate countries will try grab hold of it. So instead of hubbing through Dubai when Emirates was king, Abu Dhabi , Bahrain and all the other hub pretenders are going after the same great service, new planes, cheap fares as long as you hub through us strategy. Interesting to see how it plays out.

Architorture's General Hospital querry is only part of the picture, there's tons of projects indicating overbuilding or at least building in anticipation of a huge population influx so I also am curious to note out of the 1.2 (give or take 300t) population that is supposed to be Dubai, how many are actually construction workers, should there be a bubble then I don't know how long these people can stay there. I seem to have read something about rioting and having around 700,000 construction guest type workers, so if the job is done I don't think this is a permanent but a transient population. My own secretary took a job there with her husband for 40% increase to US$500 a month and her contract is only year to year with a buyout if not served. So if there is a little downturn whether it's the price of oil or war or whatever, am really curious if this is a real permanent population ( also considering that only what 200000 are citizens and the rest are residents with no hope of getting citizenship).


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

^ a recent gulfnews poll indicated that out of all the respondents, around 35% viewed Dubai as their home, while 65% viewed it as just a place to make money.


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

All resident visas in Dubai are for THREE years and work contracts are for no less then 2 years.


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## Sean in New Orleans (Apr 7, 2005)

Beautiful Dubai...isn't it awesome what American dollars can build?!


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

huh?^


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## Principes (Jan 24, 2005)

Dubai 4tw!

P.


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## bustero (Dec 20, 2004)

luv2bebrown said:


> ^ a recent gulfnews poll indicated that out of all the respondents, around 35% viewed Dubai as their home, while 65% viewed it as just a place to make money.


interesting


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## dubaiflo (Jan 3, 2005)

Sean in New Orleans said:


> Beautiful Dubai...isn't it awesome what American dollars can build?!



american dollars? :hahaha:


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## KB (Feb 22, 2006)

Sean in New Orleans said:


> Beautiful Dubai...isn't it awesome what American dollars can build?!


american dollars? :weirdo: 

:lol:
Is that a (unimaginable) typo?


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## Architorture (Sep 22, 2004)

well of course he could mean that the wealth of dubai is due to the expenditure of american dollars on oil.... thus american dollars are contributing to the success of dubai...

and to expand upon that...OPEC...and nearly all other oil producers...only accept american currency for payment for oil... so once again it would be amazing what american dollars can do....


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## luv2bebrown (Nov 4, 2004)

Quote:
Originally Posted by luv2bebrown
^ a recent gulfnews poll indicated that out of all the respondents, around 35% viewed Dubai as their home, while 65% viewed it as just a place to make money. 




bustero said:


> interesting


my guess is that the 35% is made up mainly of the dubai residents who have been living there for many years. the 65% are the new immigrants. it will be interesting to see in 10-15 years whether those new immigrants begin to view Dubai as their home


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## Kngkyle (Feb 7, 2006)

I think Dubai will be a great place when/if all these massive construction sites are finished. Until then, i woulden't want to be anywhere near that city.


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## dubaiflo (Jan 3, 2005)

lol there are finished parts in Dubai as well, and as long as u don't have to drive 50km to your workplace there is no real problem in living there.


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

^^ Flo, I've been driving 40 km to & from my working place for 6 years and I've never considered that on the problematic part of living in Dubai.

On contrary I would be mad if I had to work in a place just 3 - 4 km from my home (i.e. Deira), where I'd need more then 1 hour to reach to in rush hour. It is devastating seeing in your car's data-screen an average commuting speed of 3 km/h :bash:


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## ardecila (Jul 7, 2005)

It's even more devastating having cars without data screens.

Lucky rich people....


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## dubaiflo (Jan 3, 2005)

^^ 

well altin you said it yourself, u better stay in the office for 1 more hour so you can escape rush hour.


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## AG (Sep 12, 2002)

I'm completely baffled by the number of people who say the following or similar:

"Dubai's growth will grind to a halt when the oil runs out".

Classic example:



ChicagoSkyline said:


> Need we say more,lol. Chicago will continue to be the tallest city in NA and even the world in the future, if Dubai suddenly run out of oil!


What I'd like to ask the people who think the above is, why do you think Dubai is suddenly turning to tourism and other business in the first place? Question was answered already in the quote.


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## rantanamo (Sep 12, 2002)

how fast is the population of Dubai growing? It must be incredible


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## KB (Feb 22, 2006)

How many chinese are there in dubai?? For the moment i think it's the pakistanis and indians that make up the larger portion of the population.

rantanamo: you could easily calculated that; as follows

population growth rate in dubai= (# of indians,pakistanis,bangladeshis,filipinos) * the average no of children in these respective countries) + (number of illegal human traficking groups * average size of the ship they use *12 ) + a dozen children per shiekh and half a dozen for other arabs.

that would give you a good estimate within acceptable error limit.

:jk:

The official site,www.uaeinteract.com, puts it at around 8.8 for the whole of UAE between 1996 and 2003; From that figure , i would put dubai's growth rate at around 10%(approx).

Also noteworthy is the fact that ,UAE's population has quadrapled from 1980 to now ie from 1 million to 4 million+.


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## AltinD (Jul 15, 2004)

There are tens of thousands of Chinese in Dubai and even the Goverment is encuragging the increase in numbers, hoping to attract thousands of small and middle sized Chinese busineses. They are even seeing this as an effort to somehow balance the hugely predominance of the South Asian population in the city.

The first thing that a Dubai resident will say when China is mention, would be Massagge Parlours and sluts which is unfair, but what I've noticed lately is that more and more Chinese are working for the shipping lines and the freight forwarders.


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## bustero (Dec 20, 2004)

luv2bebrown said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by luv2bebrown
> ^ a recent gulfnews poll indicated that out of all the respondents, around 35% viewed Dubai as their home, while 65% viewed it as just a place to make money.
> 
> my guess is that the 35% is made up mainly of the dubai residents who have been living there for many years. the 65% are the new immigrants. it will be interesting to see in 10-15 years whether those new immigrants begin to view Dubai as their home


This is key to the ultimate establishment of Dubai as a major city. Just as populations can go up quickly in a boom town it can just as easily disappear. It would be extremely revealing if the sample size did not include construction workers , specially ones from developing nations, for that would lower the number of residents who will make up the ultimate permanent population lower. This would seem to be a key challenge for the government , how to attract and keep the population level they seek. Specially when you consider that for the moment the country does not seem to be open to citizenship. I think interesting times lie ahead for Dubai.


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## zee (Nov 30, 2005)

rantanamo said:


> how fast is the population of Dubai growing? It must be incredible


i dont kno the exact figures but it will increase by millions within the nest few year


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## Dubai_Boy (May 21, 2003)

luv2bebrown said:


> huh?^


Dont mind him =) he is one of those loud, rude americans that go around the world telling people how great america is =)


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## Sahil12345 (Apr 2, 2006)

Truth about Dubai...? What is the truth about any city? Of course no city is free from its faults, and every city has its glamour. I have not gone to Dubai, but my uncle who lives there says its gonna, "be greater then NYC!!!" loll, Im not sure about that comment but I cannot wait to visit Dubai


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## VanSeaPor (Mar 12, 2005)

Kngkyle said:


> I think Dubai will be a great place when/if all these massive construction sites are finished. Until then, i woulden't want to be anywhere near that city.


I would do the same, if Dubai actually stops building better and better things.


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