# Ukraine: everything together



## Metsada (Oct 22, 2006)

wilczur257 said:


> You don't understand, Poles always was there but this is polish city becouse polish built this city and Lviv was polish city over 600 years, don't corpore this to Alexandria, New York or Hong Kong:weird: if you don't know history don't rule


So when is Poland going to annex "their" city?


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## Blok (Jul 10, 2006)

summer is good time for invasion...


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## Europa. (Jan 14, 2007)

WOW ukraine is much better then i had thought.. they have made a big progress... Kyiv looks good.. a few more years and it should be able to go to the EU...


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## wilczur257 (Dec 28, 2006)

> So when is Poland going to annex "their" city?


:weird: :weird: :weird: when i write your posts.....no comment :lol: :lol:


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## XCRunner (Nov 19, 2005)

Marek.kvackaj said:


> *NICE
> *


This shot took my breath away... I really want to visit Kiev, maybe Donetsk and Crimea too if I ever have the money.


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## sadiM (Mar 14, 2007)

Metsada said:


> So when is Poland going to annex "their" city?


I hope soon


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## Blok (Jul 10, 2006)

Dnipropetrovsk looks nice we should annex it too...


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

XCRunner said:


> This shot took my breath away... I really want to visit Kiev, maybe Donetsk and Crimea too if I ever have the money.


Donetsk isn't a tourist hot spot, it's an industrial city. For sightseeing, in terms of architecture, restaurants, entertainment etc. visit Kyiv, Odesa, Lviv and Crimean republic.


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## Purple Dreams (Jan 31, 2007)

What city is the very first picture you posted? It looks surreal (and beautiful)
I hope to visit Ukraine one day. I've always wanted to.


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

It's Kyiv (Kiev), the capital of Ukraine.


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## Purple Dreams (Jan 31, 2007)

^^ thanks; and I don't know if this is the right place to ask but what's the language situation like in Ukraine now (the use of Russian & Ukrainian)


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

Purple Dreams said:


> ^^ thanks; and I don't know if this is the right place to ask but what's the language situation like in Ukraine now (the use of Russian & Ukrainian)


Everyone (80%+) know both. Society is entirely bilingual. There are exceptions of course.


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## zzibit (Apr 17, 2006)

the first picture is straight out of a fairy tale, breathtaking


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## Sergei (May 20, 2004)

zzibit said:


> the first picture is straight out of a fairy tale, breathtaking


Indeed. Disneyland. :colgate:


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## Purple Dreams (Jan 31, 2007)

Dr.Mesofius said:


> Everyone (80%+) know both. Society is entirely bilingual. There are exceptions of course.


thanks


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## TohrAlkimista (Dec 18, 2006)

Dr.Mesofius said:


> Everyone (80%+) know both. Society is entirely bilingual. There are exceptions of course.


but do you understand russian or you have to learn it? I mean the difference between the languages is like the italian and spanish or something like 2 different dialetcs?


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## Purple Dreams (Jan 31, 2007)

And also in what language is used in everyday life like at work?


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

TohrAlkimista said:


> but do you understand russian or you have to learn it? I mean the difference between the languages is like the italian and spanish or something like 2 different dialetcs?


Of course you have to learn it. It's similar to similarities of Italian and Spanish, yes. Everyone learns both languages in school, the difference is that there are schools that conduct all classes in ukrainian but have russian language and russian literature separately and the other way around, with all classes in russian, with ukrainian language and literature classes conducted separately.


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

Purple Dreams said:


> And also in what language is used in everyday life like at work?


Depends on different factors. If it's a state job, then you have to use ukrainian, because it's the only state language. Other than that, it depends on a region, with eastern and southern regions mainly using russian, central and northern mixed, and western using ukrainian.

I'm from northern/central part and have used both interchangeably. However, russian was my first language, I prefer to use ukrainian now.


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

Kyiv streets


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## wilczur257 (Dec 28, 2006)

OMG !! yes, Lviv was established by ukrainian king but his splendour and the biggest development are merit of Poles it is so hard to understatd ?? Maybe you are envious about that Poland has so rich history and culture and you Ukrainians must derive of this, or maybe it irritates you that half of ukrainian historical monument are at western Ukraine and were built by Poles, or maybe simply you don't like Poles becouse Ukrainians were not able to created own country and across all history Ukraine was just part of Poland ??


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## BOSS (Apr 13, 2007)

seriously, how are Poles Slavic?


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## vishna (Jun 30, 2005)

wilczur257 said:


> ... or maybe simply you don't like Poles becouse Ukrainians were not able to created own country and across all history Ukraine was just part of Poland ??


They were unable to create their own county because of us, because we invaded their lands, Ukrainians loved freedom above all and Poles made them work as peasants - Bohdan Chmielnicki you remember? :bash: 

@BOSS: just don't pay attention to morons who by definition are stupid. Poles are Slavic because make good vodka


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## Askold (Mar 10, 2006)

Vishna:



> There are some many factors that should be taken under consideration so that it is almost impossible to say something wise. Shame on Poles they don't see that Lviv was common city of Ukrainians and Poles once.


- Very well said and am happy to see that the relations between our countries keep improving. And I'll ignore the loosers :cheers:


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## wilczur257 (Dec 28, 2006)

Yes I know who was Bohdan Zenobi Chmielnicki, but I want to see that Poles across 123 years of annexations organized more uprisings than Ukrainians organized across all polish "occupation", Poles can liberated from three strong country so why Ukrainians can't liberated from weakened by incessant wars Poland ? Beyond Chmielnicki's rebelion was cause of personal reason, moreover all rebelins didn't conducted to independence of Ukraine but to increased laws of ukrainian peasans who were exploited by polish nobility.


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## vishna (Jun 30, 2005)

Even though it could have been personal it doesn't change the fact that Chmielnicki is Ukrainian national hero, he gave Ukraine sth, so called Polish nobility wanted to take away - concept of freedom. Maybe it took Ukraine a bit longer to develop national consciousness (hence less uprisings) but hey, it does not mean we can compare which country is more brave as such a comparison is pointless and stupid.

Btw Poles are just insane if it comes to number of uprisings so no country is match for us in this field ;P It is sad however that most of these uprisings are unsuccessful and across the centuries they brought much pain and blood to our country.

I haven't been yet to Ukraine but I already love it :nuts: and this thread is about Ukraine not about Poland so please I want more photos


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## Indyk (Feb 18, 2006)

Dr.Mesofius said:


> What are you talking about "inpolite"?
> 
> *English name of the city is Lviv*
> Ukrainian name is ?????
> ...


Well for some reason you mentioned Austro-Hungarian times and forgot far more important Polish times and name of the city.
I'm sensitive about that because there's plenty of Ukrainian publications that look like this:
1256 - founding of Lviv
xxxx - this & that happens
xxxx- this & that building is erected
1772 - Austro-Hungarian ocupation

see what's missing? -I don't have any knowledge on the matter so I guess those magnificent buildings of Lviv were build by Ukrainians and the CE look of the city is caused by of A-H ocupation.


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## Indyk (Feb 18, 2006)

Askold said:


> wilczur257
> 
> - Wow, now there's a close minded idiot :nuts: Like someone pointed out the city was built by Ukrainian king, during the Polish period it was settled by GERMAN colonists and under the Austrian rule is when the city got that austrian feel to it, so to say that its only polish or is example of purely Polish architecture is very rude and derogatory.


Let me set this straight cause you're lost in the facts.
The city as we see it wasn't built by Ukrainian king, it was founded by him and it was a bunch of wooden structures which we call gród in Polish.
The German colonists were hired to design the city like in any other Polish city - they were simply the best (interesting history of words: rathaus -> ratusz -> ratusza; ring -> rynek -> rynok) for the same reason we hired Italians to design our buildings in reneisance era.
And those Germans designed a city (it was granted city rights) to be built on what was remaining of that Ukrainian town. The newly constructed city was inhabited by Poles, Germans, Jews mostly.


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## Indyk (Feb 18, 2006)

Askold said:


> Bah, just some primitive nationalistic jibrish./QUOTE]
> 
> I'm hardly a nationalists I'm not proud of being Polish.
> I hate nationalisms and that's why I'm posting here.
> ...


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## Indyk (Feb 18, 2006)

vishna said:


> For instance, Ukraine was always called Ukraine


Wasn't it called Ru? and inhabitants Rusins?
Poles didn't differentiate eastern slavs for a long time.


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## Indyk (Feb 18, 2006)

vishna said:


> They were unable to create their own county because of us, because we invaded their lands, Ukrainians loved freedom above all and Poles made them work as peasants


Let's donate them some Polish history as recompensation!!:banana:


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## Indyk (Feb 18, 2006)

wilczur257 said:


> Yes I know who was Bohdan Zenobi Chmielnicki, but I want to see that Poles across 123 years of annexations organized more uprisings than Ukrainians organized across all polish "occupation", Poles can liberated from three strong country so why Ukrainians can't liberated from weakened by incessant wars Poland ?


And how that makes Poles any better then Ukrainians?
:nuts: 

wilczur do you think that Poles as a nation are in any way better then Ukrainias?


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## wilczur257 (Dec 28, 2006)

No I don't thing that Poles are better than Ukrainians. I just prove that Poland isn't big enemy of ukrainian independence becouse Ukrainians realy never tryed to get this independence and when today Ukrainians say about polish "occupation" it isn't truth. Besides Ukrainian nation (natinaly awareness) shaped in XVII/XVIII century, prior ,,natinaly uprising" was just peasant rebelion, besides yet before II world war Ukrainians lived in Lviv was named and they nemed oneself as Ruses or Poles with rusish orgin. That's all.


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## vishna (Jun 30, 2005)

Let's assume for a moment you live in Wroclaw, then a German comes to visit you and says all over the place: "this city was German", "this was built by Henrich von Somebody" and "this university was our culture center". how would you feel? It is just a matter of politeness. So isn't it nicer if a German comes to Wrocław and says it is a Polish city - then you can reply sth like, "stop kidding, Breslau was yours, Heil Erika Steinbach, let's go drink some beer"

Soon it will be no problem to buy a home in Lviv if Ukraine is in EU and i think in 10/20 years national borders will be just some funny shapes on the map.


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## wilczur257 (Dec 28, 2006)

I want just that as some Ukrainians from this forum acceps historic truth that historical Lviv is polish city, identically like Poles accept that Wroclaw or Szzecin was germans. It is so complex ??


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## Indyk (Feb 18, 2006)

vishna said:


> Let's assume for a moment you live in Wroclaw, then a German comes to visit you and says all over the place: "this city was German", "this was built by Henrich von Somebody" and "this university was our culture center". how would you feel? It is just a matter of politeness. So isn't it nicer if a German comes to Wroc?aw and says it is a Polish city - then you can reply sth like, "stop kidding, Breslau was yours, Heil Erika Steinbach, let's go drink some beer"
> 
> Soon it will be no problem to buy a home in Lviv if Ukraine is in EU and i think in 10/20 years national borders will be just some funny shapes on the map.


I was born and raised in a city that belonged to Germany for some time (1526 - 1742 Habsburgs 1742 - 1945 Prussia/Germany + many German imigrants before that) and have no problem with accepting it's non Polish heritage. I know what was built by whom and I'm always willing to learn more. Tell me how many Poles on this forum call their city Breslau and praise the German heritage of the city?

We should build solid Polish-Ukrainian relations but on healthy ground, do you want it to be like with Russians? - There will be agreement if Poles will agree that there was no Katyn nor Ribbentrop-Molotov pact etc.


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## vishna (Jun 30, 2005)

Indyk said:


> We should build solid Polish-Ukrainian relations but on healthy ground, do you want it to be like with Russians? - There will be agreement if Poles will agree that there was no Katyn nor Ribbentrop-Molotov pact etc.


Well of course not, but I don't see point in comparison between Katyn and Lwow. Russians are being taught alternative version of history, they live in parallel universe with their heroic Red Army and what is more you just cannot blame them for a propaganda they eat - from their point of view whole world is against them. Btw Boris Yelcin admitted Katyn was done by Stalin's order and gave polish gov the proof, apologized. The problem is most of Russians see themselves as fighters against Nazis and they even don't know for what and why they should apologize as they are winners of that war.

Anyway it is obvious that Lviv was mostly Polish city for a long time but repeating it all over again does not make Lviv any more Polish. 

Jews also had a great, if not greater ;p impact on Polish cities and what do we know about them - nothing. Do we see any Jews here claiming that for example Lodz is a Jewish city? - No. How come?

In my opinion Ukrainians have to come to certain conclusions on their own, forcing them to our point of view is just not appropriate. Deep in our hearts Lviv, Vilinus are Polish cities but can you force someone to understand your feelings? It is just not so simple. You can always lay down all the facts saying the city of Lviv was Polish but you should do it only if the other side wants to listen, otherwise it just does not make any sense. I believe each side has to be patient and then after some time we can find mutual understanding, even with Russians.

Well after reading this post once again I just came to conclusion that sooner or later I will become public enemy of Poland, Ukraine and Russia. Mostly because of my personal interpretation of history hno: As time passes everybody idealizes about his own history, Poles, Ukrainians even Germans, the truth becomes harder and harder to study and understand. What was once a truth becomes a legend, legend becomes a myth, a myth becomes the Lord of the Rings 

Need some fresh air for this thread. More photos, s'il vous plait


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## Indyk (Feb 18, 2006)

vishna said:


> Jews also had a great, if not greater ;p impact on Polish cities and what do we know about them - nothing. Do we see any Jews here claiming that for example Lodz is a Jewish city? - No. How come?


Lodz is the only Polish big city Jews had a major impact on. Besides you are aware that being a Jew doesn't mean you are not Polish right?


vishna said:


> In my opinion Ukrainians have to come to certain conclusions on their own, forcing them to our point of view is just not appropriate. Deep in our hearts Lviv, Vilinus are Polish cities but can you force someone to understand your feelings? It is just not so simple. You can always lay down all the facts saying the city of Lviv was Polish but you should do it only if the other side wants to listen, otherwise it just does not make any sense. I believe each side has to be patient and then after some time we can find mutual understanding, even with Russians.


Feelings are not something I care about when talking about facts. Deep in my heart Lviv and Vilnius are not Polish cities, have you checked the map lately and the ethnic structure of them? But denying the huge historical Polish impact on them is a lie as simple as that.


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## vishna (Jun 30, 2005)

Indyk said:


> Lodz is the only Polish big city Jews had a major impact on. Besides you are aware that being a Jew doesn't mean you are not Polish right?
> 
> 
> Feelings are not something I care about when talking about facts. Deep in my heart Lviv and Vilnius are not Polish cities, have you checked the map lately and the ethnic structure of them? But denying the huge historical Polish impact on them is a lie as simple as that.


Perhaps I've said too much, perhaps you misunderstood what I meant  I have been to Vilnius last summer and I regretted that this city was no longer Polish - perfect atmosphere, beautiful architecture and so on. But I did not want this city to be Polish back again, if you see what I mean. It is just matter of appreciation of our history by other countries which is very difficult to achieve. Facts are not everything and in spite of 60 years passed I believe that emotions still play here important role in my opinion when talking about roots of a certain city.

From what I have seen Lithuanians were aware of the fact Vilnius was a Polish city, nonetheless I have seen some stupid Polish group of idiots screaming "Wilno nasze! (_pol. Vilnius is ours!_)". I have had talk in a trambus with a drunk Lithuanian nationalist hating Poland equally as USSR and he was talking in Polish to me asking whether Vilnius is Polish  Finally a friend of mine, Russian-Lithuanian student of VGTU, gave me a trip, showing all Polish places in Vilnius - and I even did not ask him for this - he was the first to say that Vilnius was a Polish city, I just replied that Lithuanians had taken care of Vilnius in the best possible way which is actually true when you see all those renovations.

All in all, I do not require any Ukrainian to say to me that Lviv was Polish, I simply know this. Of course it would be nice if a Ukrainian thinks the same but we must know the limits, every action has a reaction, the more you want Ukrainians to admit Lviv was Polish the more they will deny it - what will you do with your facts then?


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## kelvinyang (Jun 30, 2006)

It appears that Ukraine is the largest Europian country in terms of land. It was defeated by Mongol in 13th century. It is still a myth to me why Mongol was so powerful in 13th century.


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

Klausenburg said:


> Very nice pics! Do smb have pics of Чернівці / Cerniviţi?









































Klausenburg said:


> And also I would be interested in pics of Transcarpatia. In Ukraine are mototways like in Western Europe? I hope smb will post the pics I want to see. Thanks!


No, most roads are terrible in comparison to western European motorways. The new highways are alright:










Motorway near Kyiv









Kyiv-Odesa


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

Kyiv highway









Cathedrals, Churches













































Traditional ukrainian orthodox church


















Ukrainian village in the west near Slovakia









Catholic church


















Ukrainian mormon Church in Vinnytsa









Another traditional ukrainian Orthodox Church









all from Urban Ukraine (section at Euroscrapers)


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

Kyiv, by ahsm (Urban Ukraine)


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

Mix of different cities in different regions. In Ukraine different regions despite being distinctly ukrainian are also reminiscent of their past in that they developed separately for centuries.

This is a medium sized city in central Ukraine, Kryvyi Rih. Source: Askolk (Urban Ukraine). It was settled in 17 century, so it's relatively modern. As everywhere, much of the official/public architecture is a Greco-Roman revival of 19th and 20th centuries but also other European styles.














































Must be the largest McDonalds I've ever seen


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

Kramatorsk. The very far east of Ukraine. When you think of the most heavily influenced parts of Ukraine by the soviet union and Russia in general, the most russian speaking, commieblockish cities relatively recently founded cities, this is it. 

City population 173,000 
Founded 1868
City status since 1932

Park for children






























































































































An old private observatory









Most pics by Artemka (moderator at Urban Ukraine who lives in Kramatorsk) and some from wikipedia and www.kramatorsk.info


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## ovem (Mar 25, 2007)

more than beautiful => perfect


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## VelesHomais (Sep 1, 2004)

Kharkiv. New residential developments, picture by Aleg









Random, by Askold (Urban Ukraine)



































































































By Pessimista at photoclub.com.ua









Ukrainian girl  photoclub.com.ua









Palace, palm trees in southern Ukraine (Mediterranean climate) photoclub.com.ua


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## philadweller (Oct 30, 2003)

Very charming.


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## Mykhaylo (Apr 24, 2008)

Burislav, жжешь однако! kay:
xачу домой!!! ыыыы


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## christos-greece (Feb 19, 2008)

Interesting pics :cheers: The cities are great! :banana:


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