# PARIS | RER & Suburban Rail



## mr_storms

wow, nice stations


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## Breakwood

Nice, pictures Metro. I took the RER quite a bit when I was in Paris in March, but I only ever took the A line from Nanterre-ville (my hotel) into downtown. I also took alot of trips on the Metro, what an experience.


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## Falubaz

the new stations on the E line [inside the city: Hausmann st. Lazare and Magenta-Gare du Nord) are really huge, but the sings showing where to go are sometimes confusing and not god enough lighted. neverthenless i like that E-line for two reasons: the stations are wide, not as narrow as some metro stations and one can get very fast from St. Lazare to G.d.Nord, which would takemuch longer by metro (M3 or M9 and then changing for M4)
does anyone know if they will extend the E from St. Lazare westbound???


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## Metropolitan

Falubaz said:


> the new stations on the E line [inside the city: Hausmann st. Lazare and Magenta-Gare du Nord) are really huge, but the sings showing where to go are sometimes confusing and not god enough lighted. neverthenless i like that E-line for two reasons: the stations are wide, not as narrow as some metro stations and one can get very fast from St. Lazare to G.d.Nord, which would takemuch longer by metro (M3 or M9 and then changing for M4)
> does anyone know if they will extend the E from St. Lazare westbound???


It is proposed to extend the line in direction of La Defense business district.


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## Falubaz

and when will it be built?


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## manileño

Metropolitan said:


>


j'aime bcp ces trains.


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## Metropolitan

Falubaz said:


> and when will it be built?


It is only a proposal for now and as such, there's no calendar planned yet, but most likely between 2010 and 2015.


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## Minato ku

* MS 61 renovated* RER A

*old MS 61*









*MS 61 renovated*


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## Metropolitan

Thanks for those pics Minato Ku. Actually I like the new painting. 





Here's a picture of the RER B taken in the latest days by St!ckyesman :


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## juanico

Le MS61 rénové c'est le chassis original avec une carrosserie neuve ?

beau boulot si c'est le cas.


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## eklips

I love stickyesman's pick, as I am very familiar with the rer B, this really shows how it is on the bad crowded days, with everybody sufocating inside and waiting for empty seats


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## Jayayess1190

nice pictures


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## empersouf

So many people taking the subway:drool:


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## Metropolitan

Soufian said:


> So many people taking the subway:drool:


It proves how inadapted is the subway network in Paris. 2 million people have 16 lines. And the other 8 million people have 5 lines...


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## Falubaz

Metropolitan said:


> It proves how inadapted is the subway network in Paris. 2 million people have 16 lines. And the other 8 million people have 5 lines...


that is not quite true
the metro and RER lines have different length, so they cannot be compared by their number 
besides RER lines have many branches
RER A 3 branches on the west and 2 on the east
RER B 2 north / 2 south
RER C 4 west / 4 south-east
RER D 1 north / 3 south
RER E 1 west / 2 east 
so in the reality there are much more RER lines


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## edubejar

The extensiveness and crowds in the Paris RER and metro for that matter are truly "urban." Paris mass-transit is so huge and impressive. Perhaps only Tokyo, NYC and London can rival it. I've been on the RER several times. Nothing beats arriving in Paris by train from some other French or European city at 8am. The intercity train would converge and pass near or adjacent to RER trains, especially at rail yards as you approach a train station. You'll see the double-decker RERs full, bringing people from suburbs all around Paris--people with their newspaper or ipods. It's quite impressive, especially for someone who is visiting from a country with little or almost no-rail.


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## Metropolitan

Falubaz said:


> that is not quite true
> the metro and RER lines have different length, so they cannot be compared by their number
> besides RER lines have many branches
> RER A 3 branches on the west and 2 on the east
> RER B 2 north / 2 south
> RER C 4 west / 4 south-east
> RER D 1 north / 3 south
> RER E 1 west / 2 east
> so in the reality there are much more RER lines


Of course the RER lines are more extended, that's rather obvious otherwise it wouldn't serve the suburbs. Most of the branches you've talked about are divided really far actually. The line C for instance is divided in 2 branches in the south at a level which is outside Paris metropolitan area. Indeed, in the south, lines C and D are serving the countryside (something by the way I still fail to understand).

The problem remains the same. 5 lines are really few for the area we're talking about. You should realize that where there is the RER in Paris, there would be the tube in London. That means a dozen of lines instead of 5.

If the 5 lines are so overcrowded, it's exactly because of that reason. And the fact it's divided in many branches just increase the issue in the central portion. It doesn't solve it.


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## Falubaz

Metropolitan, u may be right, so why paris and ile-de-france doesn't extend the RER system??? they should built new lines (just like the new E line) or the once in the past proposed line between st. lazare and montparnasse. for the E i think has already been done the worst part (in the city) so why do they wait to extend it via la defense?? i cannot get it.


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## glickel

One thing that needs to be pointed out is that the none of suburban tracks of the RER are new. Before the RER, there was still a massive suburban network in Paris, but they all ended at the six major stations. The genoius of the RER was to put the stations underground and put the trains through the city. 

There are still suburban lines that have not been upgrade to RER status. I have family who live in the northeastern suburb of Paris. Until recently, I had to take the metro to Gare de l'est and go above ground to get a train to the 'burbs. Since they built the E line, I have at least one more option. But the RER E uses the same tracks and stations once above ground.

Point of this ranting is that there is more train access to the suburbs that just the RER.


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## juanico

glickel said:


> One thing that needs to be pointed out is that the *none of suburban tracks of the RER are new*. Before the RER, there was still a massive suburban network in Paris, but they all ended at the six major stations. The genoius of the RER was to put the stations underground and put the trains through the city.
> 
> There are still suburban lines that have not been upgrade to RER status. I have family who live in the northeastern suburb of Paris. Until recently, I had to take the metro to Gare de l'est and go above ground to get a train to the 'burbs. Since they built the E line, I have at least one more option. But the RER E uses the same tracks and stations once above ground.
> 
> Point of this ranting is that there is more train access to the suburbs that just the RER.


No no sir, all the RATP part of the network (e.g. half of the A line, and half of the B line) was totally new and built between the mid-70's and early 90's.

You are right on the fact that the SNCF part (half of the 2 above mentioned lines, plus C, D, E lines) were created above ancient suburban lines (as you said about the new E line which replaces the old 'Eastern line') and that many suburban lines still link Paris and its suburbs.


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## edubejar

Ya, some suburban trains that are not called or "look" RER serve some of the gaps not served by the RER. If I recall correctly, they leave from the St. Lazare and Montparnasse train stations. The ones I recall were very old and ugly and grey...they don't have the red, white and blue of many of the RERs. 

I love the look of the new double-decker RERs that have the leaf as part of their logo.

On another note, two trams provide mass transit in some northern and also some southern and eastern suburbs. I've only taken the T2 once, though.


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## Metropolitan

edubejar said:


> Ya, some suburban trains that are not called or "look" RER serve some of the gaps not served by the RER. If I recall correctly, they leave from the St. Lazare and Montparnasse train stations.


Not only Montparnasse and St. Lazare, but all the 6 main railroad stations of Paris. There are still suburban trains living from Gare de l'Est, Gare du Nord, Gare de Lyon and Gare d'Austerlitz. The suburban trains represent 2,000 km of lines in Ile-de-France region. The RER network, which is a different network, consists of 500 km of lines.

Juanico is right in his description of the network. Under the acronym of RER, there is actually two different philosophies of lines.

Lines A and B have been devellopped by the RATP (operating Paris metro), they have been totally thought in the 60's and 70's. On the line B for instance, it's only the Southern section of the line (untill Luxembourg), which is older. The whole Northern part of the line (from Luxembourg to Charles de Gaulle Airport and Mitry-Claye) has been built during the 70's and the 80's.

On the other side, lines C, D and E, develloped by the SNCF (operating suburban trains) are just about old suburban rail lines which have been connected from one another.

The difference between both networks is really massive. Lines A and B work a lot better than lines C, D and E.








The red, white and blue trains belong to the RATP (lines A and B). That's why you can't find them on SNCF suburban lines.

However, the double decker trains operating on lines C and D are exactly the same trains are those which were operated on the old suburban tracks which existed before they've been "changed" into RER lines.








Those new double-decker RERs you're talking about are operated on lines A and E. They've been elaborated together by the RATP and the SNCF. The name of those cars however is an RATP name, they are called MI 2N (and not Z something like SNCF trains). They are interesting as despite being double-deckers, they have three doors on each cars (instead of only one at each extremity of cars).

However, the MI 2N cars operated on RER A don't have the leaf on them. If that's the case, it's because those trains belong to the RATP. Indeed, that leaf is actually the new symbol of the SNCF network in Ile-de-France (known as "Transilien"). It's an attempt of the SNCF to increase the reputation of its suburban trains in grouping them together with its RER lines. However, the only effect that grouping has had is actually to increase the contrast of quality between the RATP network (which globally works well), and the SNCF network (which is awful and haven't been re-thought since ages).



> On another note, two trams provide mass transit in some northern and also some southern and eastern suburbs. I've only taken the T2 once, though.


Yeah, the T2 line is actually not really a light rail line as it's operated on heavy rails between La Défense and Issy. That's because the T2 line actually use for the larger part a former rail network. There are projects about extedning the T2 line northbound, using light rail track, which will make of it a real tramway line. Those lines of tramways belong by the way to the RATP.

However, the RATP has proposed another project, which is about creating a new metro circle line, fully underground, in the narrowing suburbs of Paris (having a population density superior of 15,000/km²). That project has not been accepted yet, because the Ile-de-France region found it too expensive. Here is a map of the project :










If it was only about me, I would incorporate the T2 line to make the circle complete. However, we can also think about extending the line in the west using new underground tracks which would be parallel to the actual T2 line. Anyway, no matter what would be decided (or not decided) there is a lot to do !


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## [email protected]

Metropolitan said:


> Lines A and B have been devellopped by the RATP (operating Paris metro), they have been totally thought in the 60's and 70's. On the line B for instance, it's only the Southern section of the line (untill Luxembourg), which is older. The whole Northern part of the line (from Luxembourg to Charles de Gaulle Airport and Mitry-Claye) has been built during the 70's and the 80's.


... not fully built ("by" the SNCF), partly connected !
Moreover, from Nanterre-Universite to Cergy and Poissy (western part), le line A is operated by the SNCF.




Metropolitan said:


> The ones I recall were very old and ugly and grey...they don't have the red, white and blue of many of the RERs.
> 
> 
> 
> The red, white and blue trains belong to the RATP (lines A and B). That's why you can't find them on SNCF suburban lines.
Click to expand...

?????? What do you say !? Have you ever taken a suburban train ? 
The blue/white/red is only the livery "Ile de France" and you can find these kind of colours all over the SNCF suburban lines.

A Z6400 on St Lazare network (this suburban train is not blue/white/red ?) :









2 VB2N, a Z8800 and a Z20500 in Gare de l'Est :









A VB2N on Montparnasse network :












Metropolitan said:


> I love the look of the new double-decker RERs that have the leaf as part of their logo.
> 
> 
> 
> Those new double-decker RERs you're talking about are operated on lines A and E. They've been elaborated together by the RATP and the SNCF. The name of those cars however is an RATP name, they are called MI 2N (and not Z something like SNCF trains). They are interesting as despite being double-deckers, they have three doors on each cars (instead of only one at each extremity of cars).
Click to expand...

At the SNCF :
MI2N are called Z22500, the project name was "MI2N Alteo" for the RATP and "MI2N Eole" for the SNCF.
MI79 (RER B) are called Z8100.
MI84 (RER A) are called Z8400.




Metropolitan said:


> However, the MI 2N cars operated on RER A don't have the leaf on them. If that's the case, it's because those trains belong to the RATP. Indeed, that leaf is actually the new symbol of the SNCF network in Ile-de-France (known as "Transilien"). It's an attempt of the SNCF to increase the reputation of its suburban trains in grouping them together with its RER lines. However, the only effect that grouping has had is actually to increase the contrast of quality between the RATP network (which globally works well), and the SNCF network (which is awful and haven't been re-thought since ages).


Are you working for the RATP 

This train was delivered in october 2002 and was meant for the RER C :


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## Metropolitan

[email protected] said:


> ... not fully built ("by" the SNCF), partly connected !
> Moreover, from Nanterre-Universite to Cergy and Poissy (western part), le line A is operated by the SNCF.


Of course the lines A and B have been _later_ extended to SNCF sections, but it was initially a fully RATP project. In 1977, when the RER has been inaugurated, it was operated strictly by the RATP, and it's been a tremendous success.

In 1979, when the SNCF did its odd job in creating the RER C. The least we can say is that it's been less fervently welcomed.



> ?????? What do you say !? Have you ever taken a suburban train ?
> The blue/white/red is only the livery "Ile de France" and you can find these kind of colours all over the SNCF suburban lines.


I believe Edubejar had more in mind the RERs from lines A and B, which are predominantly red and blue :










That's what I call an RER !



> At the SNCF :
> MI2N are called Z22500, the project name was "MI2N Alteo" for the RATP and "MI2N Eole" for the SNCF.
> MI79 (RER B) are called Z8100.
> MI84 (RER A) are called Z8400.


You've just confessed it by yourself, the project name of the MI2N for the SNCF was the RATP name...



> Are you working for the RATP


No, I don't work for the RATP. Are you working for the SNCF ? 

Anyway, let me tell you that the SNCF does a pathetic job in Ile-de-France. That's not really their fault as the whole structures in Paris are thought as if the city ended at the périphérique. Hence it's natural the network is crap when in a 100% urban environment such as the "Petite Couronne" (departments surrounding the city of Paris), the network is operated as if it was still suburban. However, the SNCF, has never realized there was a problem or if they did have done nothing to solve it. I won't say that it's because of the workers of the SNCF being always on strike as that's also the case on the RATP, but despite this, the RATP network is still a lot more efficient.


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## Minato ku

Two pictures of my favorite RER trains


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## p5archit

Got to love the RER!! I am always in awe when confronted by Paris transit network-not to mention envious. Its amazing how well integrated the RER and Metro systems are, especially considering the density and the lack of space. All I can say is transit at its finest..

p5


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## Minato ku

Rush hours in the


































RER B at Saint Michel Notre Dame





RER B two MI 79





RER C





RER E


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## STEFER

*The First Years of the Parisien R.E.R. (1967- 1987)*

I' m very happy to opening this thread about the first years of the parisien metro regional service named RER (Reseau Express Regional).

In My opinion I Think the RER is the Best Subway Service in the World . Please May SomeOne has some Images about RER with the MS 61 car (whith the first vernissage) during the firsts years ? Thank you just for now !


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## Trainman Dave

STEFER said:


> I' m very happy to opening this thread about the first years of the parisien metro regional service named RER (Reseau Express Regional).
> 
> In My opinion I Think the RER is the Best Subway Service in the World . Please May SomeOne has some Images about RER with the MS 61 car (whith the first vernissage) during the firsts years ? Thank you just for now !


RER is not a "Subway Service" only a small percentage of its routes (Anyone know the actial %) run in tunnels under the center of Paris. Most its routes were the commuter railways which had served Paris since the 1840's.


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## Alargule

STEFER said:


> I' m very happy to opening this thread about the first years of the parisien metro regional service named RER (Reseau Express Regional).


You're welcome. Usually though, after this 'I'm very happy to open...'-sentence, we get somewhat of a detailed story - in this case about the aforementioned first twenty years of RER service.
That's what I thought to find here when I opened this thread - a bit disappointed that it isn't there...


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## sarflonlad

I think the RER is an excellent model public transport should follow. Subways should be restricted to city centres and RER for suburban traffic.

Shame there wasn't more in this opening thread. RER really is something for Parisians to boast about.


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## Trainman Dave

1837	opened the Lazare - LePecq in August and extended to St Germain-en-Laye in 1847
~ opened Le Gare de Saint Lazare in 1843
~ electrified on third rail for ‘rames’ standard in 1927
~ reconstruction and electrification @ 25kVac began in the late 1960’s 
1840	opened the Austerlitz -Juvisy line and Compagnie Paris-Orleans extended services for 50 years
~ electification began with the extention to Quai d’Orsay in 1900
~ electrification by thrid rail spread until 1921
~ Compagnie Paris-Orleans converted thrid rail to 1500Vdc
~ a low-level station at Austerlitz with dive-unders was built in 1969 as precursor to RER-C
1846	Compagnie de Sceaux opened the Ligne de Sceaux from Denfert - Bourg-le-Reine and Sceaux
~ extended the Ligne de Sceaux to St Remy-les-Chevreuse in 1867
~ electrified on third rail for ‘rames’ standard in 1937
1949	Chemin de Fer de l’Etat opened the line form Paris - Melun on August 12
~ electrified @ 1500Vdc in 1950
~ suburban service diverted to Gare de Lyon low-level station in 1980
1954	Pont Cardinet <> Porte d’Auteuil line opened on May 2
- a branch across the Seine towards Invalides was added in 1900’s
- electrified with 3rd rail in January 1925 but never converted to 25kVac creating an isolated shuttle
1859	Compagnie du Nord opened the main line to Creil, Amiens, Lille and Brussels
~ electrified @ 25kVac in 1958
~ Orry-La-Ville service diverted to Nord low-level station in 1982
1859	Compagnie de l’Est opened the Bastille - La Varenne line
~ extended the Bastille line to Boissy Saint Leger in 874
1878	Invalides station opened on an extention of the Petit Ceinure to serve the exposition
~ electrified on third rail for ‘rames’ standard in 1901 from Invalides to Versaile Rive Gauche
~ reconstruction and electrification @ 1500Vdc was completed May 27 1979
1969	closed the Bastile station in december when the Boissy Saint Leger line was diverted to Nation
~ reconstruction and electrification @ 1500Vdc began in 1960
~ became a branch of RER-A in 1977
1972	opened the 1st RER line (A) from Auber to St Germain-en-Laye in October
1977	connected the RER-A from Auber to Gare de Lyon, Nation & Noisey-le-Grand in December
~ central section was seriously strained with too much trafic in 1970’s & 1980’s
1977	opened the RER-B line extending the Ligne de Sceaux to Chalet-les-Halles
~ Orly-Rail, Austerlitz - Pont de Rungis and busses ot airport, launched May 28, 1972
1979	opened the RER-C line connecting the Austerlitz suburban lines along the Seine to Versailles
~ require a 841m connection from Quai d’Orsay to Invalides
1980	extended the RER-C from Viroflay to St Quentin-en-Yvelines in June
1980	extended the RER-A from Noisey-le-Grand to Torcy in December
1981	extended the RER-B line from Chalet-les-Halles to Gare du Nord
1983	extended the RER-B line from Gare du Nord to CDG Roissey
~ service from Gare du Nord began in 1976
1983	opened the RER-B branch from Aulnay-Sous-Bois to Mitry-Mory
1988	connected the RER-A branch from Nanterre Universite to Poissy and Cergy-le-Haut in July
~ service from St. Lazar on these lines 1979
1988	opened the RER-C VMI branch to Argenteuil and Montigny-Beauchamp in September
~ crosses the Seine on the 1900’s PC railway bridge, closed 1937 and rebuilt
- Porte d’Auteuil line closed in January 1985 for inclusion in RER-C
1988	finally opened the Saint Michel station connecting RER-B & RER-C in September
1995	opened the RER-D line connecting the PLM suburban lines to Gare de Nord & St Denis/Orry-la-Ville
~ Orry-la-Ville services extended to Chatelet in 1987
1992	extended the RER-A from Torcy to MLV Chessy
1993?	opened the Orlyval automatic metro from Athony station on RER-B
1994	extended the RER-B line from CDG Roissey to CDG TGV station
1999	opened the RER-E in the EOLE tunnel, Haussmann <>Chelles-Gourney/Villiers-sur Marne
1999	SNCF has branded it’s Isle de France suburban and regional activities as Transilien SNCF
2000	extended the RER-C from Montigny-Beauchamp to Pontoise
~ including a new 6-track bridge at Pontoise
2004?	re-opened the Grand Ceinture, St Germain<>Noisy-le-Roi connecting to the St Nom-la-Berteche line
- freight services are opposed by affluent areas
201??	extended the RER-E in a tunnel from Haussman to Pont Cardinet on to St. Nom-le-Bretchere
~ Pont Cardinet is 2km NE.of St. Lazare
2008	extended the RER-E, Villiers-sur Marne <> Tournan @ Gretz-Armianvilliers
2011	renovated RER-B to CdeG and created traffic separation for airport trains to increase reliability
2012?	inaugurated “CDG-express” using the RER-B fast lines and a new line parallel to LGV jonction
~ using the space at Gare-de l’Est vacated by the suburban trains now using RER-E
- replaces the original plan on a dedicated line from Noisy-le-Sec <> Roissy-CDG IAP
~ in a tunnel, Noisy-le-Sec <> Aulnay-sous-Bois, two new tracks parallel to RER-B
~ use a new track beside the LGV-jonction to a shuttle terminal at Roissy-CDG TGV station
- the 1st French railway to be tendered as a Build, Operate and Maintain private operation in 2006
2016?	re-opened the Grand Ceinture, Sartrouville < Epinay> Noisy-le-Sec for tangential services
~ lay two new tracks beside the Grande Ceinture freight ring line over the 28 km
~ public consultation in 2007 with DPU expected in 2008
- opened Epinay-sur-Seine <>Le Bourget by 2014
202??	re-opened and electrified the western Grand Ceinture, Acheres <> Versailles
- for Pontoise <> Melun tangential services via Versaille, Massy, Evry & Corbeil-Essones

I hope this is helpfull.
Dates with question marks are only approximate!
I would welcome more detailed information and correction of my mistakes.

Much of this information was gleaned from an story in Todays Railway augmented by notes which I have been keeping for many years.


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## Minato ku

Trainman Dave said:


> 201??	extended the RER-E in a tunnel from Haussman to Pont Cardinet on to St. Nom-le-Bretchere
> ~ Pont Cardinet is 2km NE.of St. Lazare
> .


That's wrong

The RER E will be extended at la Defense by a tunnel with a stop at Porte Maillot. 
It will never serve the station Pont Cardinet. hno: 












Trainman Dave said:


> 1988	Opened the RER-C VMI branch *to Argenteuil* and Montigny-Beauchamp in September.


2006 The branch from Ermont to Argenteuil is separated from the RER C and integrated into the new suburban line Saint Lazare - Argenteuil - Ermont-Eaubonne


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## Minato ku

After the extention at La Defense, the







will take the Sncf branchs of the







. 







will become a RATP line only

2007









In 202?


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## Trainman Dave

minato ku said:


> That's wrong
> 
> The RER E will be extended at la Defense by a tunnel with a stop at Porte Maillot.
> It will never serve the station Pont Cardinet. hno:
> 
> 2006 The branch from Ermont to Argenteuil is separated from the RER C and integrated into the new suburban line Saint Lazare - Argenteuil - Ermont-Eaubonne


Thank you for the corrections


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## Minato ku

*Z 23* 1937 Sceau line (This ligne became in 1977







) refurbished version _Retired in the 80's_










*MS 61* 1967 second vernissage (I didn't found picture with the first)
























*MS 61 refurbished* 2005


















*MI 79* 1980







(The first trains are under in refurbished)









*MI 84* 1984


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## LosAngelesMetroBoy

and in the same breath you will call trains in american subways and light rail ugly, thats a bit hyprotritcal (i never did well in spelling).

although i do have to say its one of the best systems ever


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## SkyLerm

Thanks minato for that beautiful pics


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## [email protected]

minato ku said:


> That's wrong
> 
> The RER E will be extended at la Defense by a tunnel with a stop at Porte Maillot.
> It will never serve the station Pont Cardinet. hno:
> 
> After the extention at La Defense, the
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> will take the Sncf branchs of the
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> will become a RATP line only


*You* are wrong !!! :bash: 

This extension is only a project supported by the "EPAD" ("promoter" of La Defense district)... hno:

The RER E should go in Versailles-RD, St Nom la Bretèche *and* Mantes la Jolie via La Défense (that's new since 11/2006)...

What it is written in the SDRIF (http://www.sdrif.com/IMG/pdf/SDRIF_Web-2.pdf)


> ...Le deuxième concerne le RER E, avec d'une part la création d'un débouché à l'ouest, dans l'objectif d'augmenter ses capacités, d'améliorer la desserte du Nord-Ouest parisien, de La Défense et de la Seine Aval jusqu'au Mantois, et de *dégager des capacités pour la desserte de Cergy-Pontoise*, et d'autre part son prolongement jusqu à Meaux...


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## [email protected]

RER A in 1970
















http://www.amtuir.org/


MS61 C,D or E (?) series:


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## Frog

I like those old trains, they have a classic look to them. I recently went on RER with some friends and they were amazed as they'd never seen such things as a double decker train :lol:


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## Augusto

Trainman Dave said:


> 201??	extended the RER-E in a tunnel from Haussman to Pont Cardinet on to St. Nom-le-Bretchere
> ~ Pont Cardinet is 2km NE.of St. Lazare
> 2008	extended the RER-E, Villiers-sur Marne <> Tournan @ Gretz-Armianvilliers
> 2011	renovated RER-B to CdeG and created traffic separation for airport trains to increase reliability
> 2012?	inaugurated “CDG-express” using the RER-B fast lines and a new line parallel to LGV jonction
> ~ using the space at Gare-de l’Est vacated by the suburban trains now using RER-E
> - replaces the original plan on a dedicated line from Noisy-le-Sec <> Roissy-CDG IAP
> ~ in a tunnel, Noisy-le-Sec <> Aulnay-sous-Bois, two new tracks parallel to RER-B
> ~ use a new track beside the LGV-jonction to a shuttle terminal at Roissy-CDG TGV station
> - the 1st French railway to be tendered as a Build, Operate and Maintain private operation in 2006
> 2016?	re-opened the Grand Ceinture, Sartrouville < Epinay> Noisy-le-Sec for tangential services
> ~ lay two new tracks beside the Grande Ceinture freight ring line over the 28 km
> ~ public consultation in 2007 with DPU expected in 2008
> - opened Epinay-sur-Seine <>Le Bourget by 2014
> 202??	re-opened and electrified the western Grand Ceinture, Acheres <> Versailles
> - for Pontoise <> Melun tangential services via Versaille, Massy, Evry & Corbeil-Essones
> 
> I hope this is helpfull.
> Dates with question marks are only approximate!
> I would welcome more detailed information and correction of my mistakes.
> 
> Much of this information was gleaned from an story in Todays Railway augmented by notes which I have been keeping for many years.



The RER C will also be extended westbound from St Quentin to La Verrière or Coignières.


----------



## Minato ku

[email protected] said:


> *You* are wrong !!! :bash:
> 
> This extension is only a project supported by the "EPAD" ("promoter" of La Defense district)... hno:
> 
> The RER E should go in Versailles-RD, St Nom la Bretèche *and* Mantes la Jolie via La Défense (that's new since 11/2006)...
> 
> What it is written in the SDRIF (http://www.sdrif.com/IMG/pdf/SDRIF_Web-2.pdf)


But this SDRIF schema p 119 show an other thing. _I don't understand_ hno:


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## Alargule

^^ What's with this 'prolongement RER' between - as it seems - Chatelet and Gare du Nord? There already IS a RER connection between those two stations, isn't there? Or are they planning another parallel tunnel?


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## Minato ku

An parallel tunnel for the line D, because actually the line B and D run in the same track between Chatelet and Gare du Nord and this section is overcrowed.

For information : "Arc Express" or "Metropherique" is a subway ring in inner suburbs.


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## primastro

STEFER said:


> In My opinion I Think the RER is the Best Subway Service in the World.


Well, the network extension is impressive, but the tunnels under central paris are too crowded in peak hours, especially Auber-Châtelet Les Halles (line A) and Châtelet Les Halles-Saint Michel-Notre Dame (line B). I think that the best solution are new lines that avoid central Paris, the network design is too centralised, as everything in France!


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## [email protected]

minato ku said:


> But this SDRIF schema p 119 show an other thing. _I don't understand_ hno:


The only thing this map shows is the RER E has to be extended from St Lazare to La Défense, but it doesn't say if a new tunnel will be built or if the "old tracks" will be used. 

With quite the same need (connect La Defense to eastern Paris urban area via St Lazare), firstly one solution is much more cheaper than the other, I think you know which one... 
Secondly, it depends if you want to create a new "vacuum cleaner" between the Est part of Paris and its CBD (like the RER A) of if you consider the 300.000 inhab. (same for the working population) of districts or cities like "new" Batignolles, Clichy, Levallois, Asnieres, Courbevoie need to be connect to the Est, as well...


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## Minato ku

We need not take the old track of Saint Lazare but renovated the system.
St Lazare is good but the RER E will create a lot of probleme with other lines Saint Lazare system. 

Batignole will be conected by the ligne 13bis at Saint Lazare.
and the Metropherique or Arc Express will be have the role to link Levallois Clichy at la Defense and Issy (I hope that Metropherique will be subway or RER owned by the RATP)

If RER E tack the track of Saint Lazare it will horrible, like RER B northern part, RER C and RER D Those RER are not very inefecient. (Delay du at other suburban trains, bad comunication very cheap renovated stations and maybe without elevators and without Contactless card borns.) hno: 

When I compare RER RATP with metro frequency, good information and RER SNCF with bad frequency and bad information. If you take the RER E at Magenta, it is indicated "quai 1, 2" and "quai 3, 4" but not "direction St Lazare" or "direction Chelles Gournay - Tournan" hno:


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## Good

I am much more in favour of a new tunnel between Saint-Lazare and La Défense. It is much more expensive than taking the suburban tracks leaving Saint-Lazare train station, but it will really increase the transportation capacity to La Défense. The more transportation means and capacity towards the business center, the better.


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## [email protected]

minato ku said:


> Batignole will be conected by the ligne 13bis at Saint Lazare.


How do you know that ? Another subway tunnel will be dug close to the present Ligne 13 ? It's only speculation ... 




minato ku said:


> If RER E tack the track of Saint Lazare it will horrible, like RER B northern part, RER C and RER D Those RER are not very inefecient. (Delay du at other suburban trains, bad comunication very cheap renovated stations and maybe without elevators and without Contactless card borns.) hno:


The "Groupe II" (or







to Versailles RD, St Nom) in St Lazare is quite efficient, its regularity rate is as good as the rate of the RER A or RER E. The "Groupe V" (or







to Mantes via Poissy) has an average regularity rate...
If they need it, almost all railway stations have elevators...
If you pay for it, you will have it...




minato ku said:


> When I compare RER RATP with metro frequency, good information and RER SNCF with bad frequency and bad information. If you take the RER E at Magenta, it is indicated "quai 1, 2" and "quai 3, 4" but not "direction St Lazare" or "direction Chelles Gournay - Tournan" hno:


You're right the life is always white or black... hno:


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## Minato ku

[email protected] said:


> How do you know that ? Another subway tunnel will be dug close to the present Ligne 13 ? It's only speculation ...


This project is real but not official for a line 13bis with the Genevillier branch . 



[email protected] said:


> The "Groupe II" (or
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> to Versailles RD, St Nom) in St Lazare is quite efficient, its regularity rate is as good as the rate of the RER A or RER E. The "Groupe V" (or
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> to Mantes via Poissy) has an average regularity rate...
> If they need it, almost all railway stations have elevators...
> If you pay for it, you will have it...


Actually you are right but I don't want the faboulous Saint Lazare system in the RER E. hno: 



[email protected] said:


> You're right the life is always white or black... hno:


^^ Yes, I affirm that SNCF don't know how manage the urban trains when I see the RER C, RER D, RER E and RER B northbound.


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## Minato ku

*Welcome in the thread about the suburban rail network of Paris (RER and Transilien).
*
Paris has one of the largest suburban train network in Europe and in the world.
The network is 1,500km long and has 448 stations.
It is made of RER lines running underground in Central Paris and other suburban trains serving the surface platform of the main railway terminals.
There are 5 RER line and 8 suburban lines/networks based on the terminal stations.


















Gare de Nord: H, K
Gare Saint Lazare: J, L
Gare Montparnasse: N
Gare de l'Est: P
Gare de Lyon: R
La Défense: U, The U line is the only Transilien that don't serve any station in Central Paris.

The suburban network is operated by two compagnies SNCF and RATP, the RATP operated most of the RER A (Poissy/Cergy branches excluded) and the central and southern part of the RER B.
The SNCF operate the rest of the network.

In 2011, Paris suburban rail network carried 1.167 billion passengers making it the busiest in Europe.

Schematic map








http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Carte_Transilien_RER_sch%C3%A9matique.svg


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## Minato ku

Picture taken by me









1. Laplace station








2.








3.








4.


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## iampuking

Does the RER have any express services once in the suburbs?


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## Minato ku

*Older rolling stocks*



[email protected] said:


> The "automotrices Z" are olders than the MS 61...
> These cars were built between 1939 and 1961 and were used firstly on the "ligne de Sceaux" and then for RER B services from 1970 to 1987. The MS61 have started to run on the "ligne de Sceaux" in 1967 (http://www.navily.net/matosrer.php)
> 
> In Denfert-Rochereau station (RER B). Pictures taken in 1991 during an exhibition.
> First livery:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RER livery:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1977 in Denfert-Rochereau:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1985:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.metro-pole.net/



RER A in 1970, at this time this part of the RER A was called St Germain line.











It was only called RER on December 9, 1977 with the joining of the Nation-Boissy (Vincenne line) and Auber-Saint-Germain-en-Laye (St Germain line) segments as the eastern and western halves of the RER Line A at the just-completed hub station of Châtelet - Les Halles in the heart of Paris. The southern Ligne de Sceaux was simultaneously extended from its terminus at Luxembourg to meet Line A at Châtelet – Les Halles, becoming the new Line B. The system of line letters was introduced to the public on this occasion, though it had been used internally at RATP and SNCF for some time already


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## Minato ku

iampuking said:


> Does the RER have any express services once in the suburbs?


Yes it has. :yes:


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## iampuking

Minato ku said:


> Yes it has. :yes:


Which lines, or all?


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## macpolo

ive spend one year in it

last year i live in orsay ville and study in nanterre universite,so......


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## Minato ku

iampuking said:


> Which lines, or all?


Maybe all, I am not sure for the RER A, but I know that the RER B, C, D and E have express services.


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## Minato ku

After I red some information, yes the RER A have express service.
_____________________________________________________________



























RER A is Europe's busiest line with over 1,000,000 passenger/day. Line A is formed from the connection across Paris of the Saint-Germain-en-Laye-Nanterre line in the west to the Vincennes — Boissy-St-Léger line in the east. Two branches were added in the West, to Poissy and the 'ville nouvelle' of Cergy, and another in the East, to the ville nouvelle of Marne-la-Vallée. The two latest extensions of the line were to Cergy-Le Haut and Disneyland Resort Paris.

Line A has been a runaway success since its inauguration and has now over 60,000 passenger per hours in rush hours
Ever-increasing traffic volume and the need to ward off imminent saturation have been major factors in RATP and SNCF's planning since the inauguration of the Line A. At least five major capital investment decisions can be directly traced back to this issue:


In the early 1980s RATP contracted German conglomerate Siemens to develop a dynamic traffic control system that would remove the capacity constraints caused by conventional block traffic management. This system, called SACEM (Système d'aide à la conduite, à l'exploitation et à la maintenance), remains today one of the world's most advanced traffic control systems and enables extremely short spacing (under 90 seconds in stations, under 2 minutes in tunnels) between trains during rush hour. (Parisians have become used to the sight of a train pulling into a station as the one before it is just clearing the platform.) 
Around the same time, RATP had to order a significant number of additional MI79/MI84 trains to remedy premature wear and tear on its existing MS61 rolling stock caused by over-utilization of Line A. 
Later in the 1980s, the need to relieve congestion on the central segment of Line A was a key factor in selecting the route of the new, fully automated Line 14 (also known as METEOR) of the Métro. 
The same need governed the choice of the route of RER Line E in the early 1990s and is a factor in current plans for that line's westward or south-westward extension. 
An entirely new class of double-decker trains (MI 2N series) entered service in 1998, in part a product of RATP's belief that no further infrastructure improvement (short of an extremely expensive track quadrupling) would relieve congestion on Line A.
One simple (if partial) solution to the congestion problem that has never been implemented is a change in the seating configuration inside the trains themselves. The RER is unusual among high-capacity urban train networks in its attachment to "transversal" (front and back facing) seating. A change to "longitudinal" (sideways window-lining) seating typically reduces the number of seats by 10% but increases standing room by 30%. The result is increased capacity and a less cramped ride for those without seats.









Picture of Metropole


I really like the RER A rollling stocks.

*MS 61*. 

















*MS 61 Refurbished* 









*MI 84* 









*MI2N* 









Pictures of Wikipedia


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## Minato ku

Video; mostly in the RER A, a part in the RER B and a very small part in the RER D






*RER B*

Saint Michel Notre Dame





Denfert Richereau





Cite universitaire


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## Manuel

@Minato
Are crowds regulated on the RER (and on the metro system). I mean when it gets seriously overcrowded, have the authorities introduce a system to control crowds (like porticos, red lights, or man stopping the crowds).
In normal times I mean, not during strikes.

I was quite surprised to see people surprised when guards forbid them to get on the platforms when it got extremely busy... Are parisian not accustomed to crowd control during normal times?


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## eklips

Manuel, personnaly I have never seen anything like this, when the RER is very crowded you either push your way through or just wait for the next one.

macpolo, why are you bringing politics into this?


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## Minato ku

I ever heard of pusher in the RER A.

It was 63,000 passengers per hour in one way on the RER A in Rush Hour in 2004. The ridership of the RER A has increased since.


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## [email protected]

Manuel said:


> @Minato
> Are crowds regulated on the RER (and on the metro system). I mean when it gets seriously overcrowded, have the authorities introduce a system to control crowds (like porticos, red lights, or man stopping the crowds).
> In normal times I mean, not during strikes.
> 
> I was quite surprised to see people surprised when guards forbid them to get on the platforms when it got extremely busy... Are parisian not accustomed to crowd control during normal times?


Porticos have been put in place in 1921 in the corridors of the metro.
I remenber when I was young (20 years ago), in the corridors of St Lazare (L13) there were 2 lanes (separated by a barrier) for the 2 directions (St Denis or Asnières) and 2 porticos that were opened alternatively.

It was like this, I think there are still here in some stations but they should not work anymore...

















In 1947:


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## Metropolitan

These porticos were strongly despised by the population. Indeed, they were closing access to platforms at the arrival of trains, before they were stopped. Thus, they were felt by passengers as a useless feature which was only there to annoy them.

According to the RATP, these porticos were supposed to make trains stopping time in station shorter considering that it would cut a continuous flow of passengers. One must remember that at the time the system was saturated. Indeed, even if the annual ridership was far lower than today, trains needed more time to accelerate and slow down, doors weren't fully automatic and there wasn't screens for drivers to help them figuring out the good moment to close the doors. As a result, there were agents in each train who went on the platform at each station to get a quick glance on it and make a sign to the driver once it was ok. Well, all this to say that at the time, there were generally only a train every 4 or 5 minutes depending on lines during rush hours. That's about twice less as nowadays.

Anyway, when the MP59 and the MF67 rolling stocks replaced the old sprague trains, train frequency could significantly increase. As a result, the old procedure of porticos became indeed something having no other purpose than to annoy people. And these porticos first stopped being used, and now are even totally dismantled.


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## Manuel

Merci!


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## Minato ku

*RER C*










The line runs from Pontoise (C1), Versailles – Rive Gauche (C5) and Saint-Quentin-en-Yvelines (C7) to Massy-Palaiseau (C2), Dourdan-la-Forêt (C4), Saint-Martin d'Étampes (C6) and Versailles – Chantiers (C8)

First inauguration : 1979 
Length : 185.6 km (115.3 miles) 
Number of stops : 84 
Line C was created in 1979 by connecting the Gare d'Orsay railway terminus (now Musée d'Orsay) with the Invalides terminus of the Rive Gauche line to Versailles, along the banks of the Seine. In 1988 the Argenteuil branch opened, using most of the infrastructure of the old SNCF Auteuil line and connecting to the line's main trunk at Champ de Mars-Tour Eiffel via a curved bridge (the only one in Paris) over the Seine river.

500,000 passengers use this line everyday.


Rolling stocks
Z 5600









Z 20500 









I don't know what problem have the SNCF with the RER, but this line has to many branch and is to cheaply build to be really efficient. hno:
It is not really a RER line for me.


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## [email protected]

Minato ku said:


> I don't know what problem have the SNCF with the RER, but this line has to many branch and is to cheaply build to be really efficient.
> It is not really a RER line for me.


Are you sure that everbody is aware about this ? hno:
Please say it one more time...:bash:

Oups, you have have forgotten to bash the RER D ! :lol:


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## Minato ku

Don't worry I will. 
I am not the only who bash the RER C and D : geoking66, metrpolitan...


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## Good

You know Minato, I used to bash a lot the RER C and D, especially because I find these lines amazingly confusing as soon as you have to use one of the many branches, and also because their frequency is not always very satisfying. 
Now I am not a regular user of these lines since I live and work in central Paris, where only the lines A and B are really useful for a "stricto sensu" Parisian. And since then, I have met a lot of people commuting on these lines, who told me they were actually more satisfied with their commuting on the RER C and D than the RER B for instance. A lot of people in my office live in the south western suburbs (Versailles, Plaisir, etc.) and are quite happy with the RER C, as long as they know the trains schedule: they always get a seat, it's on time, safe and relatively clean...


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## Minato ku

Of course the RER C is quite confortable and less crowded than the RER B, but the frequency outside the central section is very low.
It is like seing that you prefer the line 10 at the line 1 of Paris Metro.
But in reality wich is better the line 1 or the line 10 ?

The SNCF section of the RER B is not great, always a problem with the SNCF RER. 
the RATP section is very good, but it is affected by the problem of the SNCF section. hno:


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## [email protected]

Minato ku said:


> The SNCF section of the RER B is not great, always a problem with the SNCF RER.
> the RATP section is very good, but it is affected by the problem of the SNCF section. hno:


It's a little bit a manichean vision !? :shocked:


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## Minato ku

Not really it is the case in the RER B. (A big difference beteween the north and the southern part)

The RER C working well but it has too many branchs, train not adapted (Only two doors per cars :weird and low platform. 
I see that the RATP do a very well jobs in high capacity urbain trains and the SNCF do not.
Why ? 

I have proof, The 5 busiest line in Paris region are all RATP or partially : RER A (busiest section RATP), RER B (busiest section RATP), line 1, line 4, line 13 The RER D and C wich are over the hundred kilometers are after these.
Why ?
Because their trains are not adapted, the frequecies (outside central section) are too low.

Imagine the RER A or B with these train, only two doors per cars and not adapted at crowd.









Of course the metro and RER A or B rolling stocks lack of longitudinal seat wich affecting the train capacity but it is a way better than the rolling stocks of the RER C and D.

I must admit that it is better with the RER E.


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## Minato ku

Picture of the strike by Metropole

*Gare de Lyon*







Like the average rush hour but with a lower frequency (30 minutes instead of 90 second)
































*Magenta*







I should said that I have never see crowd in this line, it have capacity of 80,000 travellers per hour for each direction but have only 200,000 passengers per day.









Anyway the strike is over.


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## Minato ku

The worst RER line, with low frequency, delays and a murder the last week. 

The RER D is one of the five lines in the RER Rapid transit system serving Paris.

The line officially runs from Orry-la-Ville - Coye (D1) to Melun (D2) and Malesherbes (D4). In reality, some trains continue to Creil except during rush hours, and the link between Juvisy-sur-Orge and Melun via Corbeil-Essonnes is operated by RER D

First inauguration : September 27, 1987 
Length : 160.0 km (99.4 miles) 
Number of stops : 59 (including Corbeil-Essonnes Melun branch, Chantilly and Creil) 
Line D links the Gare du Nord with the Gare de Lyon via Châtelet - Les-Halles. The section north of the Gare du Nord opened in the late 1980s; a dedicated tunnel opened in 1995 to connect it to the SNCF network south of the Gare de Lyon, part of which was transferred to the RER.

500,000 passengers use this line everday.










Rolling stock 
Z20500 at Malesherbes (southern terminal station)









Evry-Courcouronnes


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## Minato ku

It is 30th years of the RER network.

For this anniversary some picture of the successful RER A.




























Maybe too successful for users in rush hour.


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## Minato ku

The RER E is one of the five lines in the RER Rapid transit system serving Paris, France.

The line runs from Haussmann St-Lazare (E1) to Chelles Gournay (E2) and Tournan (E4)

First inauguration : 1999 
Length : 52.3 km (32.5 miles) 
Number of stops : 21 

Line E runs from Haussmann - St-Lazare via Magenta (serving Gare de l'Est and Gare du Nord) to the north-eastern suburbs. It was originally referred to as the EOLE, or Est Ouest Ligne Express.

200,000 passengers per day.










MI2N EOLE


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## [email protected]

Minato ku said:


> ... Magenta (serving *Gare de l'Est* and Gare du Nord)


Not yet 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magenta_(Paris_RER)
http://www.mairie10.paris.fr/mairie10/jsp/site/Portal.jsp?page_id=160


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## ChaseCarver

Will there be a 'tunnel' between Magenta and Chateau-Landon ???


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## Minato ku

Yes, the tunnel between Magneta and Chateau-Landon should be opened in 2012.

A little ride in RER E central station

Magenta _Gare du Nord_































































RER E In direction of Haussman Saint Lazare.


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## Minato ku

*Haussmann Saint Lazare*


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## iampuking

I love the giant RER stations, I hope when Crossrail is built, they are to a similar standard, but it seems unlikely...

Was Auber on RER A originally like the RER E stations with a high curved ceiling, but they decided to cover it up to place back-lit advertisements there instead?


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## coth

Metropolitan said:


> Actually, this would deserve to be double checked.
> 
> We have only old and partial data for the RER A. The 273 million annual trafic figure in 2004 excludes the SNCF sections of the line (branches to Cergy and Poissy). Furthermore, traffic has massively increased on the RER in the recent years (mainly due to Deloanöe's policy to limit automobile traffic). Finally, datas for the Moscow metro are about daily ridership whereas those of RER are about annual ridership, and the conversion between both figures isn't that easy.
> 
> Well, all this to say that Moscow's purple line may be busier than the RER A, but this is really not sure.


still, stats for moscow. daily ridership on 27 december 2006.

http://www.mosmetro.ru/files/490452881469473dab5b7d/2006en-1.pdf
http://www.mosmetro.ru/files/16885365674694732bcfeef/2006en-2.pdf


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## Minato ku

iampuking said:


> I love the giant RER stations, I hope when Crossrail is built, they are to a similar standard, but it seems unlikely...
> 
> Was Auber on RER A originally like the RER E stations with a high curved ceiling, but they decided to cover it up to place back-lit advertisements there instead?



This is that's we call cathedral station. These are great but truly expensive
For the RER A the cost of Charles de Gaulle Etoile, Auber and Nation station was about €3 billion. 
These three station was more expensive than the whole Victoria line built at the same time. :nuts:











I have a book with plan of huge RER stations I will post them later. kay:


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## Minato ku

*Auber* 


 
Click to enlarge


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## Minato ku

Chatelet les Halles station by metropolitan



Metropolitan said:


> Here is a map of Châtelet les Halles as it was in the early 80's :
> 
> 
> Click to enlarge
> 
> This map is taken from an 80's version of the Larousse encyclopedia. As you can see, RER D and Metro line 14 weren't built yet. Furthermore, Gare du Nord remains RER B terminus since the line hasn't yet been extended northbound.
> 
> Actually, RER D tunnels are still called in this map "SNCF" with white tunnels. It was then only a project, but the station in itself was already built to host it. On the other side, the Paris metro line 14 wasn't even planned yet. The station is currently built right below the metro line 1 station, and its tunnel gets below line 11 and then is built between line 7 and RER A tunnels at the bottom left of the picture.
> 
> There's also a motor vehicles tunnel which isn't visible on the main map but which is shown on the upper left scheme right beside Les Halles line 4 station. That tunnel is great as there's a lot of turns and entries and exits making of it a real maze where it is easy to get lost. :nuts:
> 
> Anyway, when I'm there, I have the feeling that Paris is a living body and that this Châtelet-les Halles station is its heart. The metro and RER tunnels are its arteries, trains are its blood, and Parisians are its red blood cells. While waiting the subway coming, if I focus, I can even hear the heart beating... though in most of case these are generally musicians playing in the metro that I hear from far away.


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## iampuking

Minato ku said:


> These three station was more expensive than the whole Victoria line built at the same time. :nuts:


I bet it paid off though, the Victoria line has overcrowding at Victoria station in the peaks, its so bad that they have to shut the platforms regularly because they were built too narrow. RER probably has no kind of problems because the planners thought ahead...

Great diagrams by the way! Do you know why RER lines were constructed with both tracks in one large tunnel and side platforms instead of two single bore tunnels with an island platform?

Also, regarding that diagram of Chatelet, were the RER A platforms built before the RER B and cross-platform interchange built later?


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## Minato ku

It is french style, in France we prefer the side platforms instead of the island platform. 
That's why there is few island plaforms in France.

In the central Paris RER only Saint Michel Notre Dame station have two single bore tunnels with an island platform. It was opened in 1988 and it is the only tube style station in Paris.

Actually the RER A and B opened at the same time in Chatelet les Halles. (1977)
Even if most stations was opened before 1977, it is only with the opening of Chatelet les Halles that the name RER was created.
Before the RER A was the Saint Germain (western bound) and Vincenne (easter bound) and the RER B (southern bound) was called Sceaux line.

EDIT : I have forgotten one station with two single bore tunnels with an island platform : Gare de Lyon.
It is also the the case of Chatelet les Halles for the RER A and B.


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## iampuking

Thanks for your information, do you know if the RER is deep level or shallow.

Sorry, but I don't really understand your final paragraph..


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## ddes

The RER is simply amazing, really unlike I've ever seen or heard about (except the Crossrail, which is a far long way off)...

Is it adviceable if a tourist like me uses the RER rather than the Metro?


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## Svartmetall

As someone who was a tourist I found myself using the metro mainly in the inner city, I only touched RER A briefly but the other lines I left alone for regular touring.

For access to the airport (CDG) I used RER B and so that is the most likely route into the city for you, but I reckon you'll spend most of your time on the metro like I did.

With relation to your comment about uniqueness: the RER on the whole is like the German S-bahn systems in Berlin and Hamburg though on a much more intense scale on the whole, so if you've used those before, you'll know what the system is like.


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## brisbanite

When I was in Paris I did mainly use the metro to get around the city and its sights but did use the RER to get out into the suburbs as I like to see a city's surrounds not just the CBD. The RER is again the best way to get to and from the airport, I wouldn't trust the traffic on the roads. Great spot to do a bit of trainspotting is just north of Gare De Nord, sat there for a while and was amazed at how many varieties and number of trains that went past, but had to get back to the laundromat.


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## Minato ku

The problem of the RER, it is not very usefull for tourist because it don't serve (exept the RER C) the tourist places 
So if you want only see the touristy romantic, Paris RER is not the best system. If you want see Paris the real city the RER is prefect.

Some pictures of the RER.


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## ddes

Haha. Thanks for the advice...

Maybe when I visit Paris sometime later this year, I'll just take the RER for the sake of taking the RER...


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## edubejar

Here's an excuse to use the RER in a touristy way, rather than just taking it to see the "real Paris" of the locals in case you are only visiting for 5 days or less:

Take *RER A* to Saint-Germain-en-Laye and visit
1) Château de Saint-Germain-en-Laye: This French royal palace is on the west end of RER A, on the A1 branch (many RER lines branch off). According to Wikipedia, the chateau houses today the Musée d'Archéologie Nationale (which I've visted) and I found the artifacts dating from Paleolithic to Merovingian times amazing. The chateau was first built in 1112, expanded by Saint Louis in the 1230s, of which the Gothic chapel remains, burned in 1346 by Edward of Woodstock, Prince of Wales, aka the Black Prince (a lot of history there for tourists)  , and rebuilt by King Charles V in the 1360s on the old foundations. The current chateau was reconstructed by François I in 1539 and expanded several times, and it saw Louis XIV be born. Anyway, you can stroll through this bourgeois suburban town and get an amazing view of Paris and La Défense from afar because of a huge open park-like field that is quite high. 

2) Mane-la-Vallée station inside Disneyland Paris on the east end of RER A, on the A4 branch. 

3) As an alternative heading eastbound, you can take the RER A to either Fontenay-sous-Bois or Nogent-sur-Marne on the A2 branch and spend some time visiting the 2-block-wide strip of mansions or big detached houses that sorround the huge park Bois de Vincennes (Vincennes Woods). This is also an excuse to cross the park on a beautiful day until arriving at the Paris end in addition to seeing some detached mansions near Paris-proper.

Take *RER B* to and from CDG Airport Terminals 1 or 2 north of Paris or Antony station for connection on the Orlyval to Orly Airport south of Paris if you'll be flying from/to those airports. In addition, you can use it for:

1) Stade de France although you may want to take the métro there instead

2) Parc de Sceaux to see the beautiful park laid out by the famous landscape architect André Le Nôtre and the Château de Sceaux. You can also visit the wealthy suburban town of Sceaux and its many beautiful mansions and large detached houses surrounding the park, as well as Sceaux's old center.

Take *RER C* to Versailles - Rive Gauche (C5) or Versailles - Chantiers (C7 if you don't mind a longer walk to the palace) to visit Chateau de Versailles

Take *RER D* to Melun at the south-end of branch D2 which is a very long ride. You can visit this far-distant suburb that almost detached from the rest of the continuous suburbs that it's like a provincial town. Plus it's only about 3.7 linear miles from the Château de Vaux-le-Vicomte, where NBA star Tony Parker of the San Antonio spurs got married recently. It's gardens were also designed by the famous André le Nôtre.

*RER E* doesn't go anywhere of interest to tourists that I know of but I like the double-decker trains and some of the stations on that line like Haussman St-Lazare and Magenta inside Paris. If I wanted to head out of Paris-proper on this line I would go to one of the last two stations on the E4 branch end which ends with Chelles-Gournay station. Those last 2 stations are right on typical middle-class detached-house neighborhoods of Greater Paris and you can visit for a bit before heading back to the station.


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## Good

^^ Very good advice about placesof interest in Greater Paris.
In my opinion, you could also take the RER to visit the following sites:
- The castle of Maisons-Laffite, one of the most beautiful French baroque château, on the RER A
- Le Vésinet, a garden-city purposely built for the happy few in the 19th century, dotted with beautiful mansions designed in an eclectif style typical of that time, around artificial lakes, rivers and parks, on the RER A
- Vincennes, with an impressive medieval castle and the tallest medieval dongeon in Europe (RER A, but also Metro line 1)


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## Minato ku

MI84 at Neuilly Plaisance station (RER A)
I don't know why but I love this picture.









metropole


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## _Night City Dream_

Can anyone tell me what are the trains' lengths on each line? What is also about trains' width and passenger capacity?
What area is covered and served by RER? In Sq km.


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## [email protected]

You will find everything on the French section of Wikipedia...

RER A:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_A_du_RER_d'Île-de-France

RER B:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_B_du_RER_d'Île-de-France

RER C:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_C_du_RER_d'Île-de-France

RER D:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_D_du_RER_d'Île-de-France

RER E:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_E_du_RER_d'Île-de-France

MS61:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_61

MI79 or Z8100:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/MI_79

MI84 or Z8400:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/MI_84

MI2N RATP or Z1500:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altéo

MI2N SNCF or Z22500:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_22500

Z5600:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_5600

Z8800:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_8800

Z20500:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_20500

Z20900:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_20900

Z5300:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_5300


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## _Night City Dream_

Merci beaucoup!


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## Minato ku

metropole


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## Minato ku

Driver





Driver view


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## Minato ku

Gentilly station









The next train in this platform is express, it don't make stop at this station

















The express train








The next train is in three minutes








Two minutes after the depart of the first train a second train in the other platform.








My train.


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## Minato ku

Val d'Europe station














































Gare du Nord


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## Minato ku

Inside a refurbished MS 61. See this post








Picture by bnmaddict


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## Minato ku

Pictures by Fito.



Fitó...!!! said:


> *Des Photos
> 
> Poissy A5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Versailles - Rive Gauche C5
> Chateau de Versailles
> 
> Double-decker RER rolling stock
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


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## iampuking

Are there any plans to refurbish the stations on the RER? I mentioned it in the other thread, but they're really ugly!


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## Minato ku

Surely but I don't have any info about it.


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## Smarty

Does anyone know where the RER line E is going to be extended to ?


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## Minato ku

It should extented to La Defense, Nanterre folie in a new tunnel and to Mantes La Jolie with old tracks.


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## Smarty

Minato ku said:


> It should extented to La Defense, Nanterre folie in a new tunnel and to Mantes La Jolie with old tracks.


Thanks


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## Minato ku

MI2N








Metro-pole


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## Fitó...!!!

Minato ku said:


> Pictures by Fito.


Ok, now that i'm in the right thread i'll post the other pics, thanks! kay:


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## Minato ku

in Issy Val de Seine


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## Cosmin

The RER is a fantastic system, it fascinates me, as does the whole Paris-IDF mass transit system.

As a tourist I only got the chance to use RER A to Maisons Laffitte and RER B to CDG, but I might come back this summer and I've identified some interesting places worth a visit on other RER line (thanks for those tips in the previous posts, btw) so I'll surely use the RER more than I did in my previous visit. And of course I'll extensively visit Paris itself mainly using the metro and the buses. I don't know why they say buses are not practical for tourists... they were practical enough for me.

Can you post a timeline of future RER extensions or tell me where can I find one?

Merci!:cheers:


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## Songoten2554

wow the RER seems very great at what it does i hope more cities will take inspiration from this.

United States please take note of the RER please.


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## Svartmetall

Songoten2554 said:


> wow the RER seems very great at what it does i hope more cities will take inspiration from this.
> 
> United States please take note of the RER please.


RER = German S-bahn. Similar principle, other cities have taken inspiration from this OR already had a system a lot like the RER in place.


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## ddes

I guess the fascination for the RER comes from the fact that the distinction is very clear; it's sort of an express metro cum commuter rail; which in a way, is a commuter's wet dream come true...

And also thanks to ppl like Minato Ku and others for showing us Paris' rail infrastructure so frequently...

I'm sure the other systems that comes close, the German S-Bahn will receive more attention if our German pals started a thread and introduce us to it...


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## Songoten2554

exactly also i think the BART Metro in SF is also like the RER.

also London is joining too with the Crossrail project as well and they have the FCC as well (First Capital Connect)

also if anyone is out there can anybody put more pictures of it i mean stations like La Defense and also the world's largest underground station or something like that?


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## Cosmin

- a bit more artistic photos

*Trains at Rueil-Malmaison station on RER A1*









*Waiting for the train late at night - RER A4*









*Through the haze near La Défense*









*La Défense station*


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## Augusto

ddes said:


> I guess the fascination for the RER comes from the fact that the distinction is very clear; it's sort of an express metro cum commuter rail; which in a way, is a commuter's wet dream come true...


Hopefully one day you'll do the same with the KTM to JB


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## Minato ku

Thanks for the picture


*AUBER*









 
Click to enlarge


Located in the heart of Paris CBD, linked at 9 subway line, one other RER line and a suburbain rail station.
Auber is really crowded during the rush hour the week day but can be really empty the week end, especially the sunday.

*Haussmann-Saint Lazare Havre-Caumartin Auber Opera*










































Auber is just a part of this huge underground complex with two huge RER station (Auber and Haussman Saint Lazare).
One subway ticket is enouth to visit the whole complex. :yes: but it is really big.
Myself I don't know completly this maze of tunnel. :nuts:

Picture by Thierry Lothon 


















Picture by bladsurb 









Pictures by TV Boy


















Picture by Éole









Picture by spanaut 









Picture by Brunoboris


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## Songoten2554

WOW Holy Shinkies !!!!! (Tommy Boy Quote) Aubur is huge oh man what a Cavern wow a huge station yeah i could get lost there too bad i am not in paris or something.


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## Cosmin

*Musée d'Orsay*

























...and at the surface, the museum itself!


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## Songoten2554

wow now i can look at that station look similar to a NYC Subway station and when you go up its a museum wow very well done.

i remember the NYC Subway system in that there is a station underground and to the left of the station is the entrance of the museum underground.

its the museum of the national History in New York City but this is like it too what a wonderful station too bad i won't be able to live in Paris or europe for that matter.


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## Metropolitan

Songoten2554 said:


> wow now i can look at that station look similar to a NYC Subway station and when you go up its a museum wow very well done.
> 
> i remember the NYC Subway system in that there is a station underground and to the left of the station is the entrance of the museum underground.
> 
> its the museum of the national History in New York City but this is like it too what a wonderful station too bad i won't be able to live in Paris or europe for that matter.


The museum was initially a railway station known as "Gare d'Orsay". When the RER C has been created, the rail tracks became used strictly for RER services, the rail station on surface lost its purpose and has been replaced by a museum dedicated to impressionism, the Musée d'Orsay (actually the largest collection of impressionist paintings worldwide). That collection was initially at the Louvre, which is just in front on the other bank of the Seine.

However, there's also a direct entry to the Louvre museum from "Palais Royal - Musée du Louvre" metro station. When they've built the Pyramid, they've actually dug the entrance of the museum to make it larger. In digging it, they've decided to expand it with a small shopping center, the "Caroussel du Louvre" which is directly linked to the metro.


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## Minato ku




----------



## Songoten2554

what does Sortie means i keep seeing it on metro's and RER stations?

was that station and RER station originally or was that Station part of the Railway station of the national Railway system of Paris?


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## Cosmin

_Sortie_ means _exit_. _Sortie de secours_ means _emergency exit_.

What station are you referring to? Musée d'Orsay or the last station posted by Minato?


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## Songoten2554

the last station posted by minato


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## Cosmin

Well, AFAIK, the biggest part of the system was built specifically for the RER in the '60s and '70s, so it wasn't a case of converting existing tracks and station to be used by the RER, but of actually building an entirely new system all together.

Maybe *Minato* can confirm this.


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## Metropolitan

Songoten2554 said:


> what does Sortie means i keep seeing it on metro's and RER stations?
> 
> was that station and RER station originally or was that Station part of the Railway station of the national Railway system of Paris?


Minato's home station, Gentilly (RER B) has been inaugurated in 1846. It's been renovated in the 70's when the line has been extended northbound to become the RER B. This explains its 1970's feel.

One of the most beautiful station on the line is Luxembourg, which has been inaugurated in 1895. It used to be the terminus of the "ligne de Sceaux" (Sceaux line) untill the line had been extended to Châtelet in 1977 and became the RER B.


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## Songoten2554

what picture is that station

do you know minato?


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## Minato ku

The station posted by Metroplitan is the station Luxembourg.
In fact I posted to station Gentilly in the two first pictures and Laplace in the last



Cosmin said:


> Well, AFAIK, the biggest part of the system was built specifically for the RER in the '60s and '70s, so it wasn't a case of converting existing tracks and station to be used by the RER, but of actually building an entirely new system all together.
> 
> Maybe *Minato* can confirm this.


Unfortunely no, the biggest part of the system was build before and converted for the RER.

Thses station posted in my picture was before a part of the Sceaux line, already exploited by the CMP (Metropolian compagny of Paris, the ex compagny of Paris metro) and the RATP since 1946. 
So before the line de Sceaux was already like a RER, when this line was extented to Luxemburg at Chatelet les Halles it become the RER B.

The line A was in the West the line Saint Germain (the oldest passengers train line in France, with this terminus in Saint Lazare station), it was entierelly upgrated in the end of the 1960's this route was modified and extented at La La Defense and Auber.
At the East it was the Vincennes line with its terminal station at Bastille (the station was destroyed in the 1980's for build a new Opera and the elevated tracks inside inner Paris are used as the park). The line entierly upgrated in the end of the 1960's (before steam train run on it) the route was modified and extended at Nation.

In 1970 the RER A was two line separated, these lines become the RER A when the two lines was extended to Chatelet les Halles in 1977.
After a new branch openend in the east wich was entierly new.

The RER C is an exception because unlike the other RER line its underground section is old, it was build in 1900. (expected the part between Musee d'Orsay and Invalide), so for maintance it close every summer.


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## Cosmin

^^I see. Well, sorry for my mistake.


----------



## Metropolitan

Cosmin said:


> Well, AFAIK, the biggest part of the system was built specifically for the RER in the '60s and '70s, so it wasn't a case of converting existing tracks and station to be used by the RER, but of actually building an entirely new system all together.


Actually, you're not totally wrong. 
Indeed, Minato Ku is right, the suburban parts of the network have been built mostly during the 19th century and already existed. However, the core of the
network in Central Paris, where RER lines are connected to one another and to metro lines, have been built since the mid 1960's. As such, yes, the RER system
as an interconnected network is new, however, it uses older infrastructures, especially in the suburbs.

Here, you can see the history of the rail tracks used nowadays by the RER B.


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## Cosmin

Very interesting diagram for RER B. Are there similar diagrams for the other lines? RER E would be interesting... how much of it is actually new?
Thanks.:cheers:


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## Hugues75

Cosmin said:


> Very interesting diagram for RER B. Are there similar diagrams for the other lines? RER E would be interesting... how much of it is actually new?
> Thanks.:cheers:


Only the part between Magenta & Haussmann-Saint-Lazare (in fact, the suburban part of the line in Paris), opened in 1999. All the rest was part of the eastern suburban network (it started from Paris - Gare de l'est).


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## Metropolitan

Hugues75 said:


> Only the part between Magenta & Haussmann-Saint-Lazare (in fact, the suburban part of the line in Paris), opened in 1999.


You meant the _underground_ part of the line in Paris. Right?


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## X38

Yeah, Grande Arche station is great. I've got 1 picture of that over here.


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## Augusto

X38 said:


> I was in Paris on 23-25 april 2008, and I was fascinated by the metro and RER!
> I took the RER from Versailles-Chantiers to La Défense. (i had visited the castle of Versailles)
> Versailles-Chantiers is awful by the way...


From La Defense you should have taken a Versailles Rive Droite bound train instead of Chantiers. It would have been nicer to go the palace. 
The Chantiers station is not that uggly in my opinion.Very typical from the 40' when a lot of stations had to be rebuilt in Normandie and western suburbs after the britons and americans bombed them. It's the same design than Pont Cardinet in Paris and other stations in Normandie. With some refurbishing it could be nice.


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## X38

No, we went by bus that dropped us at the palace en drove to our hotel (cheap campanile-Bagnolet, close to station Gallieni). It was +/- 15 minutes walking to the station. But we had no choise, teachers... (I remember suddenly it was RER C)

We also used the RER to go to the Jardin du Luxembourg (very nice park by the way, and I have a stunning story about a _clochard_.


----------



## jarbury

My general impression of the RER was that it felt a bit more "run-down" than the metro. The trains were tagged more, the stations seemed gloomier and so forth, but then again it was just RER C out to Versailles, rather than the A and B lines which are apparently much more modern and well looked after.

I guess RATP does a better job than SNCF?


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## Svartmetall

jarbury said:


> My general impression of the RER was that it felt a bit more "run-down" than the metro. The trains were tagged more, the stations seemed gloomier and so forth, but then again it was just RER C out to Versailles, rather than the A and B lines which are apparently much more modern and well looked after.
> 
> I guess RATP does a better job than SNCF?


I used the RER A and B when I was in Paris and I was definitely impressed. The frequencies were almost as high as the metro and the trains were clean enough.


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## iampuking

The frequency and efficiency is good, but the appearance isn't. The stations could be beautiful but instead look like car parks, and the trains have big sliding doors reminding me of some spooky industrial garriage. The interior of the trains is gloomy, and I don't really like double-decker trains...


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## Augusto

jarbury said:


> My general impression of the RER was that it felt a bit more "run-down" than the metro. The trains were tagged more, the stations seemed gloomier and so forth, but then again it was just RER C out to Versailles, rather than the A and B lines which are apparently much more modern and well looked after.
> 
> I guess RATP does a better job than SNCF?


Well, that's a long story. Excepted between Saint Lazare and Versailles Rive Droite/Saint Nom la Breteche where the Sncf service (rolling stock, frequencies, reliability) is very good, Ratp definitly does a better job. 
The point is that Ratp showpieces are the RER and line 14 and 1 while Sncf's pride is the TGV. Question of priority..


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## arctic_carlos

Last month I took the RER from Marne-la-Vallée to Paris - Gare-de-Lyon. I really like this system. What I liked the most was the speed and the acceleration of the trains. I couldn't believe these trains could brake so fast! They're doubled decked, and here, in Barcelona our double decked trains take a long time to brake, which makes journeys longer...

But probably I have this good impression of RER network because I just took A line, not C or D, I don't know.

I didn't like one thing, tickets machine didn't accept notes nor our spanish credit cards, and it was quite difficult for us to find coins to pay for 3 tickets (I guess 15 € or so).


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## edubejar

arctic_carlos said:


> Last month I took the RER from Marne-la-Vallée to Paris - Gare-de-Lyon. I really like this system. What I liked the most was the speed and the acceleration of the trains. I couldn't believe these trains could brake so fast! They're doubled decked, and here, in Barcelona our double decked trains take a long time to brake, which makes journeys longer...
> 
> But probably I have this good impression of RER network because I just took A line, not C or D, I don't know.
> 
> I didn't like one thing, tickets machine didn't accept notes nor our spanish credit cards, and it was quite difficult for us to find coins to pay for 3 tickets (I guess 15 € or so).


I was so frustrated with this, myself. My friends and I were running late getting to CDG Airport and at a station the automatic ticket machines would not take bills like you say and it would not take our American credit cards. And now the RATP has decided (it seemed so in several stations) to stop their window (taquilla/guichet) service, so it's only you and the machine and of course only the machine can win. Luckily we managed to find a taxi, which was and is always another problem in Paris. By the way, this was in Hotel de Ville metro station, which is a popular station on Line 1. Perhaps an RER station would have had window service but we didn't want to buy a single metro ticket in Hotel de Ville, then have to buy an RER ticket to the airport when transfering at Chatelet-les-Halles.


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## Minato ku

The RER A is very good if you travel on it outside the rush hour.

In few years due at the large growth of the traffic the RER A passed from the best to the second worst RER line to travel. :nuts:

It is not that the RER A is bad. This line was so good that it is victim of its succes.

The sole Gare de Lyon RER A station carrying 197,000 passengers per day.
I speak of the average 365 days, so imagine for the average working days. :nuts:


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## X38

edubejar said:


> I was so frustrated with this, myself. My friends and I were running late getting to CDG Airport and at a station the automatic ticket machines would not take bills like you say and it would not take our American credit cards. And now the RATP has decided (it seemed so in several stations) to stop their window (taquilla/guichet) service, so it's only you and the machine and of course only the machine can win. Luckily we managed to find a taxi, which was and is always another problem in Paris. By the way, this was in Hotel de Ville metro station, which is a popular station on Line 1. Perhaps an RER station would have had window service but we didn't want to buy a single metro ticket in Hotel de Ville, then have to buy an RER ticket to the airport when transfering at Chatelet-les-Halles.


(Nearly) all the stations a saw had a guichet... Even Gallieni. The teachers always went to the guichet and not to the automat...
At the window, there was always a huge "traffic jam" and NOBODY at the automats. Parisiens afrais of automats:tongue3:?


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## Minato ku

In fact in many station guichet just serve to information, they don't sell ticket anymore.

Galleni is a major bus and national international coach station.


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## X38

^^Yes, indeed. During my trip, we sleeped in the Campanile hotel, VERY close to station Gallieni. You could walk straight from the hotel door to the metro station:nuts:.


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## edubejar

X38 said:


> (Nearly) all the stations a saw had a guichet... Even Gallieni. The teachers always went to the guichet and not to the automat...
> At the window, there was always a huge "traffic jam" and NOBODY at the automats. Parisiens afrais of automats:tongue3:?


Actually, it's usually the tourists/visitors who are afraid of the machines for fear of not understanding them...or not getting what they need from them (which is not far from the truth, apparantly, unless you have coins or credit card that may or may not be accepted). I've noticed even in NYC people preferring to queue at a window then using the machines.


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## Minato ku

*Denfer-Rochereau *


----------



## Minato ku

Saint Michel Notre Dame.


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## X38

edubejar said:


> Actually, it's usually the tourists/visitors who are afraid of the machines for fear of not understanding them...or not getting what they need from them (which is not far from the truth, apparantly, unless you have coins or credit card that may or may not be accepted). I've noticed even in NYC people preferring to queue at a window then using the machines.


Ow, I'm sorry. Thack you for the correction.


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## jarbury

edubejar said:


> Actually, it's usually the tourists/visitors who are afraid of the machines for fear of not understanding them...or not getting what they need from them (which is not far from the truth, apparantly, unless you have coins or credit card that may or may not be accepted). I've noticed even in NYC people preferring to queue at a window then using the machines.


The machines are confusing and do weird stuff. When I was in Paris I bought a weekly pass on a Thursday, only to find that it wasn't valid until the next bloody Monday (the day before I was leaving). Talk about infuriating (and 15 Euros x 2 people down the drain.)


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## Minato ku

*Gare du Nord*



































Local RER B for CDG airport.


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## Minato ku

Due at an assault
of a conductor at Rueil-Malmaison, the traffic on the RER A is shut down. hno:
Result the whole Parisian transportation network is disrupted.

And even worse due to a technical probelm (suspicious smoke), traffic is stopped on the line 14.
So in the busiest section of Paris (Gare de Lyon - Chatelet) only 2 lines out 4 run. The overcrowded metro line 1 and RER D. :nuts: 

Morning rush hour.


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## ajw373

serdar samanlı;27641082 said:


> Is RER metro or suburban rail?


It is full sized heavy rail that comes from the suburbs through the centre of the city, so I wouldn't call it metro as such.


----------



## [email protected]

paF4uko said:


> ^^ I really hope they keep those clean...


Unfortunately it will be as dirty as the older ones in several years, as always hno:. Are they going to change the outside or is it only an inside-renovation?

RER lines C, D and E are definately not metro since they have termini in the country and have only one train every half hour on some branchs; but lines A and B have very high frequencies : in Paris you can see both the train that leaves and the train that enters the station during rush hours. So it is very near from a metro service.


----------



## serdar samanlı1

ajw373 said:


> It is full sized heavy rail that comes from the suburbs through the centre of the city, so I wouldn't call it metro as such.


But it is not suburban rail either. Paris suburb network is Transilien


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Then how do you make difference between such notions as suburban rail network and that presented by RER?


----------



## [email protected]

^^ Have you checked the 1st post of this thread ? May be there is a beginning of the answer you are expecting...


----------



## lightrail

ajw373 said:


> It is full sized heavy rail that comes from the suburbs through the centre of the city, so I wouldn't call it metro as such.


How is that different from the London Underground - Metropolitan Line?


----------



## jarbury

Oh gosh not this debate again! The RER is definitely a metro/heavy rail..... in the same grey area as the far northwest reaches of the Metropolitan line also are. Rail systems don't fit neatly into little boxes of "light rail", "metro", "heavy rail" and so on. There are many systems that are a mixture of types.


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## Svartmetall

jarbury said:


> Oh gosh not this debate again! The RER is definitely a metro/heavy rail..... in the same grey area as the far northwest reaches of the Metropolitan line also are. Rail systems don't fit neatly into little boxes of "light rail", "metro", "heavy rail" and so on. There are many systems that are a mixture of types.


I'm going to make a box and label it "SPECIALMETROURBANRAILTRAINS" and dump every system in there just to melt the brains of OCD people who insist that everything must be in a box.


Mind you, I quite like boxes, you can make a fort out of them.


----------



## ajw373

lightrail said:


> How is that different from the London Underground - Metropolitan Line?


I would hardly call the London Metropolitan line full sized heavy rail. Sure their trains are larger than tube stock, but they are still no full sized heavy rail.



jarbury said:


> Oh gosh not this debate again! The RER is definitely a metro/heavy rail..... in the same grey area as the far northwest reaches of the Metropolitan line also are. Rail systems don't fit neatly into little boxes of "light rail", "metro", "heavy rail" and so on. There are many systems that are a mixture of types.


Quite true indeed. That is why when I answered the question I made the point it was full sized heavy rail. It is not a true metro it is not true suburban, it is somewhere in between.


----------



## ajw373

serdar samanlı;27667882 said:


> But it is not suburban rail either. Paris suburb network is Transilien


That is a issue of branding, not function. Ineed the trains on the Transilien and RER are pretty much the same size and if I am not mistaken in some cases the exact same model, design etc.


----------



## Cosmin

RER or Réseau Express Régional (Regional Express Network) is a kind of mixture between heavy rail and metro. You can view it as something similar to express trains of the NY subway within Paris proper and suburban trains outside Paris proper. I like to think of the RER as being... RER.:lol:

I even refer to other systems as being RER-like.


----------



## sotonsi

ajw373 said:


> I would hardly call the London Metropolitan line full sized heavy rail. Sure their trains are larger than tube stock, but they are still no full sized heavy rail.


Then there's no full-sized heavy rail in the UK. The A stock that currently runs on the Metropolitan line is the largest train, in both height and width, that runs in the UK.

C and D stock, on the other SSLs, are a little bit smaller than the standard train in the UK, but A stock is bigger than even the special wide trains that run regional services on the large gauged GWML and Chiltern Main Line.


----------



## Minato ku

Nogent sur Marne viaduc

















Picture by Ackteon


----------



## ajw373

sotonsi said:


> Then there's no full-sized heavy rail in the UK. The A stock that currently runs on the Metropolitan line is the largest train, in both height and width, that runs in the UK.
> 
> C and D stock, on the other SSLs, are a little bit smaller than the standard train in the UK, but A stock is bigger than even the special wide trains that run regional services on the large gauged GWML and Chiltern Main Line.


They still are not anything like an RER train and if the metropolitan lines trains are the largest in the UK then no wonder their are capacity problems all over the place. Indeed the closest thing to RER in the London would be Thameslink or the planned Crossrail service.

Actually thinking about the whole debate, RER is really just the extension of suburban lines that previously terminated at stations on the edge of the city through the city. Hence the RER is part of the suburban network but with different branding and in the case of some lines a different operator compared to non RER services.


----------



## sotonsi

Thameslink goes 100km each way out of London, and is planned to go far more - RER definitely doesn't get that far out of Paris - it gets about the distances that the ends of the tube reach.

RER was about linking suburban lines together? The Central line does that, just with tube trains - north of Stratford and east of White City all used to be NR lines that were either 4-tracked and more stations added or taken over suburban lines. The District line linked with the SW lines via Shepherd Bush to Richmond, Ealing and Hounslow East (plus a SW line from Putney to Wimbledon) with the LTS line out of Fenchurch Street (which was 4-tracked and more stations added). Southend-Windsor (via Ealing) trains used to run! It was a metro line that took over several mainline routes, working in an RER type way.

The Met line took all sorts of trains from suburban routes from Paddington, St Pancras and Kings Cross to Farringdon when it first opened - working just like RER E. Later it became just GW suburban trains going to Liverpool Street and further round.

They don't fit in a nice neat pocket - the London Underground is a Metro and RER Hybrid, with some suburban rail in the form of the Met Main line terminating at Baker Street in the off-peak (with some trains from all three routes terminating and going through in the peaks).

Crossrail is to a Londoner's eye just a mainline sized tube tunnel (which sound impressive, despite the fact that the Met line can carry mainline sized trains very easily), that just happens to share tracks with mainline trains in the west (the Met also does this north of Harrow, the District line does this on the Richmond branch, and occasionally the Wimbledon branch), and go out a bit further than normal (Maidenhead is no further out than Aylesbury, where the Met used to serve).

Crowding issues come from seating arrangements (too many seats in the wrong places), frequency (not enough trains per hour) and length (trains not long enough), not width (all it would do is increase comfort) and definitely not height (double deckers would mean that the train takes longer and wouldn't be as frequent, due to long boarding times and safety rules about station crowding - we've tried them and they don't work with the short-dwell time model of the UK rail network). The trains I've been on in Europe all felt about the same size as A stock, and other trains aren't that much narrower, and the height doesn't really matter too much, as A stock has a load of dead space up above.

To say that the Met is like an RER is correct - not entirely correct, but more correct than saying it isn't. Of course, you can't pigeon hole it. It is at once a suburban rail line, an RER and a metro. Likewise the District line and Crossrail are at once RERs and metros.


----------



## ajw373

sotonsi said:


> Thameslink goes 100km each way out of London, and is planned to go far more - RER definitely doesn't get that far out of Paris - it gets about the distances that the ends of the tube reach.


What does this distance of the line have to do with anything? What makes the RER the RER is what it does in the central zone. That is providing a high capacity, high frequency path for suburban trains to go through the city so the passengers don't have to change to the metro. The only line in London at present that does that is Thameslink, and in the future cross rail.



sotonsi said:


> RER was about linking suburban lines together? The Central line does that, just with tube trains - north of Stratford and east of White City all used to be NR lines that were either 4-tracked and more stations added or taken over suburban lines. The District line linked with the SW lines via Shepherd Bush to Richmond, Ealing and Hounslow East (plus a SW line from Putney to Wimbledon) with the LTS line out of Fenchurch Street (which was 4-tracked and more stations added). Southend-Windsor (via Ealing) trains used to run! It was a metro line that took over several mainline routes, working in an RER type way.


They are hardly the same. Besides all these lines have a Paris metro equivilent for better comparision.



sotonsi said:


> They don't fit in a nice neat pocket - the London Underground is a Metro and RER Hybrid, with some suburban rail in the form of the Met Main line terminating at Baker Street in the off-peak (with some trains from all three routes terminating and going through in the peaks).


Yeah they don't fit, but frankly there is nothing RER like in the London underground system. Mainline yes.



sotonsi said:


> Crossrail is to a Londoner's eye just a mainline sized tube tunnel (which sound impressive, despite the fact that the Met line can carry mainline sized trains very easily), ...


And what exactly do you think the RER tunnels under Paris are? And as I have said the Met line is no comparision, the Thamslink yes, but where does the Met line go? Yep around one corner of the city, not through or across it like the RER.



sotonsi said:


> To say that the Met is like an RER is correct - not entirely correct, but more correct than saying it isn't. Of course, you can't pigeon hole it. It is at once a suburban rail line, an RER and a metro. Likewise the District line and Crossrail are at once RERs and metros.


The Met line is not an RER. It doesn't cross the city and was not built to relieve over crowding and cut-down the need to interchange on the underground network. Indeed the Met was the first underground so the MO is totaly different. I could almost agree with the district line though, but only if it were running some decent sized trains like Paris does on it.

As I keep saying RER in London the best comparision is Thameslink or Crossrail or any other system that links London's major rail terminals. How about a Victoria to Liverpool Street line? Now before you say anything about RER line E ending in a terminus, just remember the grand plan is to make that a through route too.


----------



## Stuu

ajw373 said:


> They are hardly the same. Besides all these lines have a Paris metro equivilent for better comparision.


Sorry to develop this argument and take this thread further off topic, but why are they hardly the same? The major extensions to the Central Line and Northern Lines after WWII were taking over suburban lines so that commuters don't have to change onto the metro to reach their destination, exactly as the RER is

To the best of my knowledge no lines of the Paris Metro have done anything similar, and the Underground goes far further into the suburbs than the Paris Metro. See http://www.fakeisthenewreal.org/subway/ for a same scale comparison

And also about big trains, you would be right talking about total train length, but a Metropolitan line A Stock train is a massive 40mm wider than the MS61 trains on Ligne A of the RER (couldn't find width for other RER trains). They are 0.5 metres lower though, which makes all the difference I guess

The RER lines do obviously have significantly higher capacity than any of the London Underground lines, but at the same time most Underground lines have higher capacities and travel at higher average speeds than the Paris Metro, hence the more urgent need for extra capacity in Paris. So as Sotonsi says, the Underground fits very much between the Metro and the RER

Now back to the RER!


----------



## sotonsi

ajw373 said:


> What does this distance of the line have to do with anything? What makes the RER the RER is what it does in the central zone. That is providing a high capacity, high frequency path for suburban trains to go through the city so the passengers don't have to change to the metro. The only line in London at present that does that is Thameslink, and in the future cross rail.


You think Thameslink offers a high frequency, high capacity route? You ever ridden it through the centre? It takes longer than the Northern line to do London Bridge-Kings Cross (and doesn't do that in peaks). At the moment it runs at a peak of 12tph, with 8-car trains. It's slow, low frequency. Stations occur in the central section in the City of London proper at distances of 200m between them - many tube lines have greater spacing than that. It doesn't fit your definition. I'm going to say that it's not an RER, but and RER with regional services as well.

the Met line is a better example, though of course only one sided. It has, at peak times, about 17tph of 8-car trains. It does stop often, however it was designed from the start so that suburban passengers wouldn't have to change to buses (no metro in those days). of course, that only works if you work on the line, as it does in Paris.


> And what exactly do you think the RER tunnels under Paris are?


exactly that - I'm not saying it's not RER, just that a Londoner can easily consider it an overblown tube line that happens to go a bit far out west.


> And as I have said the Met line is no comparision, the Thamslink yes, but where does the Met line go? Yep around one corner of the city, not through or across it like the RER.


other than the fact that there were plans to take it further, like RER, E and the other fact that the Met goes to Barking, just that the Hammersmith-Barking trains are branded as a different line. If you won't take the Met as it ends at Aldgate, how about the District? It goes right across the City, acting as suburban rail on the edges and metro in the centre. Ditto the Central line.


> The Met line is not an RER. It doesn't cross the city


nor does RER E - you say there's plans, there were plans for the Met.


> and was not built to relieve over crowding


yes it was - those buses (horse drawn) on the New Road were awful.


> and cut-down the need to interchange on the underground network.


because we didn't have one at the time - just because we built our RER first! However it was to stop the need to change to buses.


> Indeed the Met was the first underground so the MO is totaly different.


why - it works today like an RER that doesn't get across the City (though plans are possible for Barking). OK, it also functions like a Metro in the inner areas, but I never said it didn't.


> I could almost agree with the district line though, but only if it were running some decent sized trains like Paris does on it.


District line trains are practically UK mainline sized.


> As I keep saying RER in London the best comparision is Thameslink or Crossrail or any other system that links London's major rail terminals.


another system to link London's major rail terminals? Like the one that links Paddington, Euston, Kings Cross, St Pancras and Liverpool Street? With links to the GWML, GCML, GN, Midland and GE (sadly no link at Euston due to infighting) - it's called the Met, though those connections have been removed, as serving the stations were good enough for the GE and GW, and the GN and Midland built their own tracks alongside. As the original, GW ones, were so busy.


> How about a Victoria to Liverpool Street line?


it's called the Circle - you can go either way! . Crossrail removes the case for it as it was an alternative to a two line approach - it was an option. From the GEML into a tunnel going Liverpool Street, Farringdon, Tottenham Court Road, Piccadilly Circus, Victoria, Clapham Junction and then onto the SWML.


> Now before you say anything about RER line E ending in a terminus, just remember the grand plan is to make that a through route too.


there were plans up till last year to have the Met-that-is-still-called-Met reach Barking, swapping it with the rebranded-former-Met-of-the-H&C line. Canary Wharf as an extension of the Met came up a few years ago. But if the requirement is both sides, then the Central and District both fit the bill on that.

I'm not saying the Met, nor the District, is RER, I'm saying that there are bucket-loads of similarities there. I'm also saying that Crossrail and Thameslink aren't RER, but have similarities. Thameslink has regional, as well as suburban services, and Crossrail is basically a tube line east of Paddington that just happens to run bigger trains.

I agree with Stuu that the Tube is halfway between the Metro and RER - I also agree we should return to the RER. I think this came from a post saying that ignorantly said that the Met line's trains aren't heavy rail (3+2 face to face seating in/against direction of travel, rather than sideways, plus the size being bigger than other trains in the UK).


----------



## edubejar

The London Tube and the Paris Metro function a bit differently in the sense that the London Tube reaches out much farther than the Paris Metro. In Paris, the RER was put in place to provide service to the suburban communities not reached by the Paris Metro. A big reason why the Paris Metro stops very short of the London Tube is because the City of Paris is much smaller in area than the many boroughs making up Greater London, which is often simply called London. 

Paris on the other hand, has a clearly defined boundary (City of Paris) where the Metro was encouraged by some to stop (some go out a bit beyond), despite the fact there were already many adjacent municipalities surrounding the City of Paris. It wasn't until more than half a century later that the RER system was introduced, some parts running on existing regional rail lines, to "make-up" for the small coverage of the Paris Metro with respect to its ever-growing suburban communities which grew out and together more and more every decade, particularly in the Industrial Age, then again in the 60s, 70s and 80s with mass-immigration (as London experienced herself). To make-up even more for the lack of coverage, the system was designed to pass through Paris, not only providing service into Paris, but also through Paris (suburb to suburb), thus increasing for the RER connections with Metro lines. This, however, was in addition to the Suburban Trains (Transilien) which only arrive and depart from Intercity Train Stations but also provide suburban service. As such, the Transilien are true suburban trains, like those found in other cities, while the RER is a hybrid that is part Metro, part Suburban/Commuter train. It's not completely one or the other...it's a combination of both. Therefore it cannot be compared to other networks in the world in an apples-to-apples approach because it's quite unique, even if other cities come close to it (e.g. Madrid's Cercanías), but even then...


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## Minato ku

Laplace


----------



## Augusto

disturbman said:


> True, I've totally forgotten about RER C stations, it kind of feel like they will never change.
> 
> @serdar : As far as I know we just call them RER like we say metro for the metro. The feeling, for me, being that the "trains de banlieue" are much more the Transilien trains, the ones that finishe in the big overground terminus stations. But I say that because I never used them, as a matter of fact I'm just used to the RER A and B, the most effective suburbian lines in Paris. So, maybe, my judgement is impaired. I also think that, in the collective mind, the "train de banlieue" refers more to an uneficient old and low trains.
> 
> Like this one :


In fact a line can be uneficient or very reliable regardless the fact that it is RER or "Train de banlieue". And in the collective mind the RER C and D always refer to a late arrival at work 
For example the southern lines of the Saint Lazare network are very reliable although not being part of the RER network. 
btw the train on your post is on line N, where the service is actually quite good and fast, with one train every 15/30 min untill 1am. The rolling stock is indeed outdated but will be withdrawn within 2-3 years.


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## Minato ku

Augusto said:


> And in the collective mind the RER C and D always refer to a late arrival at work


With the overcrowding, it is also the case on the RER A. 
Sometimes on rush hours it is faster to take the metro line 1 but most commuters don't live in the inner city or inner most suburbs (area served by the metro).


----------



## jarbury

juanico said:


> It was more likely Saint-Michel station, because the RER C doesn't serve Chatelet.


Ah yes that was the one. I remember it was interesting how the trains showed their destinations... we had to keep a close eye out for "VICK" I think.


----------



## Minato ku

^^ This is the only one that I know.
RER C "VICK" deserve Issy Val de Seine, where is the western bound terminal of my bus line.


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## Minato ku

Torcy


----------



## serdar samanlı1

Nice station!


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## Minato ku

Saint-Maur Creteil


----------



## yippee

oh,the cardoors are so wide,I love it!


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## hoosier

Any expansion plans for RER?


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## Minato ku

^^ RER E to Mantes la Jolie via La Defense.


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## hoosier

Minato ku said:


> ^^ RER E to Mantes la Jolie via La Defense.


New track construction or just extension of service on existing track?


----------



## Minato ku

hoosier said:


> New track construction or just extension of service on existing track?


If everything doing well, new underground track from Haussmann Saint Lazare to Nanterre (just after la Defense) and extension of service on existing track to Mantes La Jolie.

It could aslo use the Saint Lazare old track between Haussamnn and La Defense but this project is bad, it would not increase the transportation capacity of La Defense.


----------



## jarbury

Are there any significant projects to increase the service to La Defense? Judging by how crowded Metro 1 and RER A lines are, this seems to be one of the most essential transport projects for Paris?

Also, what's the timeline for the RER E extension?


----------



## disturbman

jarbury said:


> Are there any significant projects to increase the service to La Defense? Judging by how crowded Metro 1 and RER A lines are, this seems to be one of the most essential transport projects for Paris?


There is mainly two project for this area :
- One is, as mentioned earlier, the extension of RER E from Saint Lazarre to La Défense. If at first the project was believed to re-use the old tracks of Saint Lazarre it is now allmost sure that a new tunnel linking directly Saint Lazarre to La Défense is going to be build. Surveys having shown that cost were the same in both cases, only the impact on RER A was different. At the advantage of the direct solution. For the moment compeltion is forcast to take place between 2015 and 2020. Personnaly I don't think it will be ready before 2019, 10 years seems an awfully short time to complete a project this big.
- The second one consist in building a new metro ring (called "metrophérique or "Arc Express") that would be fully automated. He will run only in the inner suburbs and linked all metro lines together in a 60km long ring. The La Défense/Saint denis arc is just one of the projected four and should be prioritize over Saint-Denis/Val de Fontenay (North to East) and La Défense/Arcueil-Cachan (West to South). But, as for the moment, studies are in progress. We don't know when construction will start and how much it will cost. We don't even know for sure whereto and wherefrom it will go and even if it will be a fully automated metro or just a new RER. There is big arguments right now between the Region, Mayors and the RATP about this.

So indeed, he project for La Défense are big, essentials ones but they are not the only one. The situation is dire in lot places.
- The M13 is totaly over-crowded and no politics seems to really care. Every tw years they find new ideas and fund new studies about what should be done there.
- But right now, I really think that people just want the "Metrophérique", it is really seen as the priority. And it's to understand, there is no metro line in the suburbs al though they are as dense as Paris center. The need and the demand there is very high.
- There is also the "Tangentielle" projects that are of big importance. It's a tram like (but more like the T2 and T4) ring project. The first part will see construction begin next year and be complete in 2016. The thing is, the Region, that decided which project will be done, is really thrilled by these project. They will maybe go quicker as "Metrophérique" that she sees as too expensive.

In any case, the coming years will see some bitching and action.


----------



## Augusto

Considering the price of the tunnel the RER E is likely to arrive at la Défense from the west first! 
There is a project to connect a new station built in la Défense to the heavily populated Seine valley (Le Havre, Rouen, Mantes). From this station there will be suburban trains to Mantes and intercity ("Trains Corail") to le Havre and Rouen in Normandy. On a second phase, when the tunnel will be completed, the new station and the suburban line to Mantes would be integrated to the RER E. 
This project would not solve the overcrowding on the RER A but it would ease the access to la Défense from the western suburbs and from Normandy. Most of those commuters actually have to change in Saint-Lazare to go la Défense by using the RER A.


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## disturbman

I thought that most surely this new station will just be in fact the Nanterre - La Folie station. Don't need to build a whole underground railway station (that's a lot of money), just to connect it to la Défense with métro and/or RER.

Yeah it will not be cheap (1,4B€) but this tunnel is very needed if La Défense is going to grow more. Hopefully the EPAD will participate a little bit to ease the cost for the community.


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## edubejar

^^ I hope they do something indeed because M1, M13 and the RER A and B are unbearably packed practically all of the time. And what is unbelievable about the M13 is that it is still packed beyond Place de Clichy going northbound. A lot of its riders seem to be going to Asnières-Gennevilliers at the end or just before the end or something!


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## Minato ku

Antony








With snow, not really visible but see the white between the track.


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## disturbman

You can also feel the snow in the whiteness of the air.


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## hoosier

I like the idea of a metro loop line. It is sad that the heavily populated Seine valley is not better connected via rail. I would think that Paris-Rouen-Le Havre corridor would be serviced by high speed rail already.


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## edubejar

hoosier said:


> I like the idea of a metro loop line. It is sad that the heavily populated Seine valley is not better connected via rail. I would think that Paris-Rouen-Le Havre corridor would be serviced by high speed rail already.


Isn't Rouen too close to be connected by high-speed rail? Lille is more than 2x the distance than Rouen and that is the shortest distance you can take a TGV from Paris (1hr journey). Meanwhile, Le Havre and nearby region is not very populated. Unless by high-speed you mean something faster than currently available but not a TGV train...just a faster Corail.


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## Minato ku

No it is not too close, Aix en Provence - Marseille (20km) is possible in TGV.
These are in the same urban area.

Normandie has about 3.5 million inhabitants
Rouen : 530,000 inh
Caen : 370,000 inh
Le Havre : 300,000
I think that it is enouth populated to build a TGV.
There is a quite large commute to Paris from this area, I think that this line would be successfull.


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## juanico

edubejar said:


> Isn't Rouen too close to be connected by high-speed rail? Lille is more than 2x the distance than Rouen and that is the shortest distance you can take a TGV from Paris (1hr journey).


And what about Reims? (120 km from Paris)

A HSR line between Paris and the Normandie was planned and the principle was even officially approved by the State in April 1992 under the name "LGV Normandie" but further studies have showed that it would have been the less profitable high-speed line in the country: location of Normandie would have made the line end in cul-de-sac, and the gain of time would not have been much significant for the cities concerned, so was (definitly) abandoned.

For a while a TGV service linked Cherbourg and CDG airport but the attendance didn't meet the expectations so the service was called off.

Answers that as well:



Minato ku said:


> I think that it is enouth populated to build a TGV.
> There is a quite large commute to Paris from this area, I think that this line would be successfull.


----------



## serdar samanlı1

[email protected] said:


> Perhaps I am the only one here but I quite like Z5300. But if I had to use it everyday I wouldn't think the same. They are dirtier than the other rolling stock because in maintenance workshops they are the last to be done, and SNCF workers often don't have the time to look after.


Are Z5300 built by Altstom?


----------



## [email protected]

No, according to Wikipedia this train has been built by:Carel et Fouché, MTE Fives-Lille and Oerlikon.


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## Minato ku

MI2N







during the second week of january.









Metropole


----------



## staff

^^
Wow, snow.


----------



## hoosier

I hate the emphasis on TGV lines being profitable. Are highways held to the same ridiculous standard?

Transportation should be a public service and funded with tax dollars without expectations of profitability.


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## juanico

AFAIK, highways are also meant to be profitable, at least here where bar a few stretches all highways are toll roads.


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## serdar samanlı1

Minato ku said:


> MI2N
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> during the second week of january.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Metropole


Nice photo. Un train sous la neige


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## serdar samanlı1

hoosier said:


> I like the idea of a metro loop line. It is sad that the heavily populated Seine valley is not better connected via rail. I would think that Paris-Rouen-Le Havre corridor would be serviced by high speed rail already.


I think there should be a metro or RER loop line to connect rail termini of Paris just like London's Circle Line


----------



## Metropolitan

serdar samanlı;31066188 said:


> I think there should be a metro or RER loop line to connect rail termini of Paris just like London's Circle Line


There's no need for that as major Paris rail termini are already well-connected between one another via metro or RER.

An extra loop line could only be slower than the RER E connecting Saint-Lazare to Gare du Nord, the RER A connecting Saint-Lazare to Gare de lyon, the metro line 13 connecting Montparnasse to Saint-Lazare, the RER D connecting Gare de Lyon to Gare du Nord, etc... As a matter of fact, a better investment in that field would probably be a new RER line "F" connecting Montparnasse to Gare du Nord via Saint-Michel, Châtelet and République, but that's not even studied yet so don't count on it !

Anyway, the planned loop line connecting all business districts of Paris inner suburbs is clearly the priority. This is what is the most needed by far.


----------



## Minato ku

Rush hours in the

















Picture by FrancoisMalan


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## VegaM

Metropolitan said:


> There's no need for that as major Paris rail termini are already well-connected between one another via metro or RER.
> 
> An extra loop line could only be slower than the RER E connecting Saint-Lazare to Gare du Nord, the RER A connecting Saint-Lazare to Gare de lyon, the metro line 13 connecting Montparnasse to Saint-Lazare, the RER D connecting Gare de Lyon to Gare du Nord, etc... As a matter of fact, a better investment in that field would probably be *a new RER line "F" connecting Montparnasse to Gare du Nord via Saint-Michel, Châtelet *and République, but that's not even studied yet so don't count on it !
> 
> Anyway, the planned loop line connecting all business districts of Paris inner suburbs is clearly the priority. This is what is the most needed by far.


First they should built two separate tunnels for the RER B and RER D between Chatelet Les Halles and Gare du Nord,... it seems quite uncertain to built a third RER in this axis (the most frequented in the world) hno:


----------



## Metropolitan

VegaM said:


> First they should built two separate tunnels for the RER B and RER D between Chatelet Les Halles and Gare du Nord,... it seems quite uncertain to built a third RER in this axis (the most frequented in the world) hno:


Yes of course.

I haven't been clear enough. This "RER line F" getting from Montparnasse to Gare du Nord via Saint-Michel, Châtelet and République only exists in my own imagination. No one talks about building it. Of course, creating a specific tunnel for RER line D between Gare du Nord and Châtelet is the real emergency.

My point was simply to say that the said RER line would be more useful than a metro loop between Paris major train stations. Not that it was a priority or anything.


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## Minato ku

Good news. 
It is official, the extention of the RER E will be an underground tunnel between Saint Lazare and Nanterre (near la Defense), after this line will use existing track to Mantes la Jolie.

There is three new underground stations planned.
*Porte Maillot* 
Under the roundabound of Porte Maillot this station, connection with the metro line 1 and RER C

*La Defense* 
Under the CNIT, connection with the RER A, metro line 1, suburban trains and light rail T2.

*Nanterre-la Folie*
Located in an area under in development.


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## jarbury

That's great news. Should take a lot of pressure off RER A and Metro 1 I guess?

When's construction meant to start/finish?


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## Minato ku

Maybe for few years years (one decade) after I sure that these three lines will be overcrowded.
Exactly like the RER A, RER D, metro line 1 and 14 are overcrowded between Gare de Lyon and Chatelet les Halles.

This video of 1990 is interresting, according it, the the overcrowd of the RER A will be solved by 1995 with the RER D and line 14. :lol:


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## Hugues75

Minato ku said:


> *Porte Maillot*
> Under the roundabound of Porte Maillot this station, connection with the metro line 1 and RER C


I find this one interesting, but there is a desapointment : there will be no connection between RER E and métro lines M2 & M6 (Well, in fact, M2 has a connection, but in the eastern Paris, and this one is absolutely not easy : there is a 300 m tunnel between Magenta and La Chapelle).


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## Minato ku

I prefer Porte Maillot, it will have a connection with the RER C. The RER C is the last connected RER line, it only have connection with the the RER B (Saint Michel Notre Dame in the center) and RER D (Juivisy in southeaster outer suburbs).

Charles de Gaulle Etoile has already the RER A, if people want to go here from the RER E they can change at Haussmann Saint Lazare.


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## Svartmetall

RATP controls most of the public transport in Paris I believe, however, Transilien and parts of RER A and B and all of C, D and E are SNCF.


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## city_thing

^^ Are the two companies both part of the Government, or are they privately run?

It reminds me of Melbourne in the 90's, when the train system was run by two private companies in order to introduce competition to the market. Is that why RAPT and SNCF are both controlling what is really the same thing?


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## thib8500

RATP and SNCF are both public firms. SNCF controls trains in France and RATP controls urban transports in Paris. But these two companies are not the ones which decide to construct new lines and own them (STIF in Ile de France région, SYTRAL in Lyon, RTM in Marseille, Tisseo in Toulouse, etc.), they just operate network.

RER are trains, but since RER A and B are more metro than trains, RATP can have control on them.


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## Hugues75

city_thing said:


> Can someone please explain the administration structure of public transport in Paris to me? Is RAPT (?) the highest transport authority, or is it SNCF? Do Transilien, Metro and RER all come under the control of RAPT?
> 
> Transport in Paris seems to have a lot of governing bodies.


Well :

- the STIF (Syndicat des Transport d'Ile-de-France) is the administration structure of public transport in all the region around Paris. Since july, 1st, 2005, the french state is no longer part of it.

- the two most famous firms are SNCF and RATP (RATP is a special firm for Paris and around), but there are also some others, most unknown like OPTILE.

- Transilien and most part of RER (north-west of RER A, north of RER B, and all RER C, D & E) and one tramway (T4) are SNCF, while all métro, bus, a part of RER and most tramways are RATP.


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## caserass

Minato ku said:


> *Paris announces MI09 double-deck EMU order*
> 09 Apr 2009
> Railway Gazette
> 
> FRANCE: Paris transport operator RATP announced on April 8 that it is to place a €917m order for 60 MI09 five-car double-deck EMUs with a consortium of Alstom and Bombardier. The EMUs will replace MI84 single-deck rolling stock on RER Line A, and there is an option for a further 115 units.
> 
> Alstom's share of the work is worth €640m, and includes the electrical equipment, bogies and end cars. Bombardier will produce the intermediate vehicles. The first trainset is scheduled to be delivered in December, and will enter service during 2011.
> 
> The design is based on the MI2N units supplied by the same consortium in the 1990s, but with a 'very contemporary' front end. The emphasis is on capacity and rapid passenger flows, with each car having three doors per side. The trains will be fitted with CCTV, and LCD passenger information screens.
> 
> The units will work in pairs as 10-car trains, the top speed will be 120 km/h, and the acceleration and braking performance will allow service frequencies to be increased.
> 
> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news_view/article/2009/04/9519/paris_announces_mi09_double_deck_emu_order.html



I have a question for you, could you tell me what's the difference between RER and Transilien ? and why the transilien is never considered as a CT ?


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## rheintram

caserass said:


> I have a question for you, could you tell me what's the difference between RER and Transilien ? and why the transilien is never considered as a CT ?


RER is so to say a part of Transilien and they share a common numbering (letter) scheme. However, in contrast to the common Translien lines, RER lines cross the inner city.


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## Allen2

I really like that pic of the station. What's the length of platform?


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## dale88

The platform is about 210 metres long i think, just enough for an 8 car train.


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## Minato ku

^^ 225m.

Les Boullereaux Champigny


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## Minato ku

Bibliotheque Francois Mitterand


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## Hugues75

This station is really new : opened in 1998 for line M14, and 2000 for RER C (the pictures you can see here).

Before 2000, the station was called "Boulevard Massena", just for RER C, 200 m further.


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## Yappofloyd

Good news.



> *RFF initiates Paris RER Line D upgrade 10 July 2009 Railway Gazette Int.*
> 
> FRANCE: The board of Réseau Ferré de France approved a €115m investment package to start the modernisation of Paris RER Line D on July 9.
> 
> Linking Orry-la-Ville, Melun, and Malesherbes with a total route length of 160 km, Line D is currently being used by 550 000 passengers/day, which is around 20% of all traffic handled by SNCF’s Transilien business unit. Line D is the worst-performing RER route in terms of delays exceeding 5 min, which affected almost 20% of trains in 2008. Of these 2·7% were attributed to infrastructure problems.
> 
> The objective of the first phase of the modernisation is to increase train frequency on the northern section from the current 8 trains/h to 12 trains/h by December 2013, with the introduction of regular-interval timetables, and to improve on-time performance to 90%. Implementation will cost €120m, with the majority of the funding to be provided by RFF.
> 
> The programme includes improvements to signalling on the busiest section between Villeneuve-St-Georges and Villiers-le-Bel, as well as upgrading of power supplies and changes to remove operational conflicts at Corbeil. Recovery margins in the terminal layover times at Goussainville will be increased to improve reliability. A new station will be opened at Pompadour in December 2013.
> 
> Under a separate project, RFF will work towards the centralisation of operational control of the tracks used by Line D, which are currently managed from 17 different locations. This will improve traffic management and operational efficiency.
> 
> At the same meeting, the RFF board also authorised its President Hubert du Mesnil to sign a partnership agreement with STIF covering the period 2009 – 2012. The two organisations will co-operate to improve the co-ordination of infrastructure maintenance and upgrading activities and increase availability.


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## brisavoine

iampuking said:


> Personally, I think it's a typical French thing, they see transverse seating as "their thing", just like side platforms and feel the need to keep it no matter how stupid or illogical it is. Correct me if i'm wrong.


Personally I think it's just a stupid Socialist thing (people facing each other will talk to each other and all that crap; don't forget that transverse seating in the Paris Métro was adopted at the time of the Popular Front in the 1930s). In reality it is extremely incomfortable because you have to ask people to move their knees so you can sit on the two spots next to the window (which is why these seats next to the windows are often empty, even when the metro is crowded, because many people feel too embarassed to "disturb" the people already sitted on the aisle side), and people don't even talk with each other (in fact they try to avoid the eyes of the person sitting in front of them), not to mention that there is not enough space for the knees. To me it reeks of Socialist ideology from policy makers who probably never use public transportation themselves.


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## Substructure

^^ Now that's a good point Brisavoine, never thought about that before.
How about side platforms though? Socialist thinking?


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## Minato ku

Good news for the RER D but it is far to be enouth, they should build a second tunnel between Chatelet les Halles and Gare du Nord, because actually the RER B and D share track in this section.

Other good new the heavy renovation of Chatelet les Halles.

Today









After 2015









A new big acces in Place Margerite de Navarre.



















http://www.cabougedanslestransports.com/media/pdf/presentation-Chatelet-les-Halles-25-05-09.pdf


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## Minato ku

In Rueil Malmaison platform in direction of Boissy (via La Defense and inner Paris)









MI84









MS61









Inside a MI84 because the MS61 had a mechanical problem.









A MS61 going to Saint Germain en Laye arriving in the oposite platforms


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## brisavoine

Substructure said:


> How about side platforms though? Socialist thinking?


I don't understand what people here mean by "side platform". Aren't platforms always on the side? I've never seen a train being unloaded by the roof or by the floor so far. Lol.


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## brisavoine

Minato ku said:


> they shgould build a second tunnel between Chatelet les Halles and Gare du Nord, because actually the RER B and D share track in this section.


Minato Ku mayor of Greater Paris! :rock:


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## ajw373

brisavoine said:


> I don't understand what people here mean by "side platform". Aren't platforms always on the side? I've never seen a train being unloaded by the roof or by the floor so far. Lol.


They mean the platforms (on a 2 or more track line) are located on the outside of the tracks. By comparision an island platform would have the platform located between the 2 tracks.


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## Substructure

brisavoine said:


> I don't understand what people here mean by "side platform". Aren't platforms always on the side? I've never seen a train being unloaded by the roof or by the floor so far. Lol.


That compares with Island platforms, used about everywhere else but France except on line 14, Gare de Lyon station :










Is it specific to our "gestion de flux" ?


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## brisavoine

And what's the advantage of an island platform? I fail to see it.

There are by the way several island platforms in the Paris metro, not just on line 14. I prefer them for esthetic reasons, but in terms of logisitics I fail to see the advantage.


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## Substructure

Wikipedia said:


> Island platforms are popular in the modern railway world for several reasons. Besides their lower construction cost, island platforms also allow facilities such as escalators, elevators, shops, toilets and waiting rooms to be shared between both tracks rather than being duplicated or present only on one side.
> As commuters make up a large number of railway passengers, this tends to mean that most people are using trains in one direction in the morning and most of them are using trains in the other direction in the evening. With two side platforms, this means that one platform is crowded while the other is deserted. An island platform prevents this as the same large platform is used for trains in both ways.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_platform

- Higher utilization efficiency
- Easier to navigate through (only one platform)
- Takes up less space
- Lower construction cost
- Accessibility


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## brisavoine

Yes, but in Paris people use both directions of the metro lines all the time, it's not one-way commute as in American cities, so both platforms are equally used all the time. Also, having island plaftorms means you need either two tunnels or a larger tunnel between stations, which cancels out the financial benefit of sharing escalators.


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## Substructure

brisavoine said:


> Yes, but in Paris people use both directions of the metro lines all the time, it's not one-way commute as in American cities, so both platforms are equally used all the time. *Also, having island plaftorms means you need either two tunnels or a larger tunnel between stations*, which cancels out the financial benefit of sharing escalators.


The tunnel also has to be made larger to accommodate the side platforms.
Still, I wish I knew the reason why planners built side platforms on some stations, and island on others. If there is public transport expert among us...


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## Minato ku

For Gare de Lyon (M14) the answer is easy, there were not enouth space to build side platforms.

A station with side platform like Auber (RER A) allow a higher flow that a station with island platform like Gare de Lyon (RER A) because it offert more escalators or stairs by direction while the island platform the passenger of both directions share the same stair and escalator.

Anyway side platform can be a way more expensive in deep level but as most of Paris metro (I don't speak of the RER) was build on cut and cover the price of construction between island or side platform was the same.
On the oposite London Tube was build deeper, this detail was important.
We clearly see this difference on daily basic while the underground Tube section have island platform, Sub surface and overground part use side platforms.

The RER A was build to be a larger version of Paris metro on deep level, having side platform in the deep level increased a lot the cost of this line.
Funny the only central stations with island platform on the RER A where build on cut and cover (La Defense, Chatelet les Halles and Gare de Lyon).


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## ajw373

Substructure said:


> The tunnel also has to be made larger to accommodate the side platforms.
> Still, I wish I knew the reason why planners built side platforms on some stations, and island on others. If there is public transport expert among us...


Geography is the main reason, followed by the preference of the engineer at the time.


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## paF4uko

Substructure said:


> That compares with Island platforms, used about everywhere else but France except on line 14, Gare de Lyon station :


As I see you're from Rhône-Alpes, a good example for island platform is Lyon's métro D @ Bellecour.
And there are other examples of island platforms in Paris itself: M1 @ Esplanade de la Défense, M1 @ Grande Arche de la Défense could be considered an island platform too, and I'm sure there are many others as well...


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## Minato ku

For la Defense as Gare de Lyon (in Paris), it was a lack of space, the metro in La Defense is build between two motorway tunnels.


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## JustinB

I like side platforms only for the reason to take photographs of trains. From a operation perspective, island platforms make more sense then side platforms.


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## Brice

brisavoine said:


> Personally I think it's just a stupid Socialist thing (people facing each other will talk to each other and all that crap; don't forget that transverse seating in the Paris Métro was adopted at the time of the Popular Front in the 1930s). In reality it is extremely incomfortable because you have to ask people to move their knees so you can sit on the two spots next to the window (which is why these seats next to the windows are often empty, even when the metro is crowded, because many people feel too embarassed to "disturb" the people already sitted on the aisle side), and people don't even talk with each other (in fact they try to avoid the eyes of the person sitting in front of them), not to mention that there is not enough space for the knees. To me it reeks of Socialist ideology from policy makers who probably never use public transportation themselves.



I think it's a socialist ideology too. That's why there's no transverse seating in the NYC subway. Public transit is too often seen as a socialist thing in the US. That's one of the reasons that makes NY transit sytem is so austere and inhuman.


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## hoosier

brisavoine said:


> Personally I think it's just a stupid Socialist thing (people facing each other will talk to each other and all that crap; To me it reeks of Socialist ideology from policy makers who probably never use public transportation themselves.


Oh give it a rest. God forbid people LOOK at each other on a train. Those fucking Commies, always trying to improve society with their crazy ideas of equality and collective responsibility. A TRUE man tells other people to **** OFF.hno:


----------



## JustinB

hoosier said:


> Oh give it a rest. God forbid people LOOK at each other on a train. Those fucking Commies, always trying to improve society with their crazy ideas of equality and collective responsibility. A TRUE man tells other people to **** OFF.hno:


Goes to show just how far the radical right wing crazies have gone with villifying the concept of socialism. When you equate seating arrangements, and station with ideology, you know there is a problem.

Communism is extreme socialism. You'd be hard-pressed to find someone who wants the government to make shoes for them.


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## Minato ku

Big news for the SNCF RER (lines C, D and E).
The SNCF could install ATO in these lines. The RER E should be the first line with ATO for the opening of the western extention in 2017.
The train will not be driverless, the driver will be here security (opening and closing doors, pushing a star button...) like in the Victoria or Central line in London and most of Paris metro lines.
It will allow better frequencies and less delay, the main problem of SNCF RER.

Here an acticle in french.



> *La compagnie ferroviaire et RFF ont lancé des études pour automatiser les RER les plus fréquentés (les lignes E, puis C et D) d’ici à dix ans. Le débit de ces lignes proches de la congestion pourrait être doublé.*
> 
> Des trains automatisés où les conducteurs ne seraient plus là que pour ouvrir et fermer les portes. C’est une des solutions sur lesquelles travaille la SNCF pour soulager ses lignes de RER en Ile-de-France, au bord de la saturation. La compagnie ferroviaire et Réseau Ferré de France (RFF), le propriétaire des rails français, ont en effet annoncé hier le lancement d’études « d’un nouveau système de gestion des circulations des trains », dont les conclusions devraient être rendues à la fin de l’année. En clair, il s’agirait d’équiper les trains de manière que leur circulation soit réalisée et gérée par un système d’aide automatique.
> 
> Cette solution a un gros avantage : elle permet d’augmenter le débit sur une ligne en toute sécurité. « Actuellement, nous sommes s u r u n e moyenne d’environ 20 trains par heure. Demain, avec ce système, ce sont près de 40 trains par heure et par sens qui pourraient circuler, soit une rame toutes les 90 secondes », explique Jean-Pierre Farandou, le directeur général en charge de la branche proximités à la SNCF. *La vitesse moyenne pourrait également être sensiblement améliorée ; à Paris, il serait possible de monter à 120 km/h, alors qu’on est plus proche des 80 à 100 km/ h actuellement.* Le coût d’un tel dispositif ? Sans doute « plusieurs dizaines de millions d’euros », selon le dirigeant, dont une partie devrait être prise en charge par RFF.
> 
> La SNCF songe à l’automatisation pour ses lignes les plus denses, particulièrement à Paris intra-muros. *« Notre souhait est de pouvoir déployer ce système à l’occasion de l’allongement du RER E vers l’ouest, à l’horizon 2017 »*, avance Jean Pierre Farandou. Ce projet, prévu dans le cadre du Grand Paris, doit étendre Eole vers la Défense et Mantes-la-Jolie. Mais d’autres lignes de RER (le C et le D) – où aucune voie ne peut logiquement être ajoutée – sont également concernées par le projet, sans doute d’ici à 2020. « Ce sont là où les circulations connaissent les congestions les plus importantes, du fait de tunnels [comme celui entre Gare du Nord et Châtelet, NDLR] qui constituent des goulets d’étranglement » , ajoute le dirigeant. Récemment, la SNCF a ainsi dû faire passer le nombre de RER D passant dans ce tunnel de 12 à 8 toutes les heures, afin de se donner un peu d’air pour l’exploitation et réduire les retards.
> 
> *Le point noir de la régularité*
> 
> La régularité est justement le gros point noir du réseau Transilien en Ile-de-France, avec un taux tombé de 90,5 % en 2007 à 88,3 % en 2008. Avec l’automatisation, la SNCF joue sur un levier de long terme, utile tant les trafics sont encore appelés à croître. A moyen terme, la SNCF compte sur ses nouvelles rames Francilien – qui commenceront à circuler à la fin de l’année –, puis sur la rénovation partielle des voies (d’ici à 2014) pour améliorer la situation. Mais pas de miracles immédiats à attendre : l’objectif est de revenir en 2009 à une régularité de 90 % à 91 %, bien en dessous des 93 % à 94 % prévus dans le contrat passé avec la région Ile-de-France.


Source: Les Echos


----------



## aquablue

The Trains on the RER are rather old and dated, no? Several of them have horrible noisy breaks such as the MI 2N. It seems that this should be addressed. Also, are there any plans for replacement trains and new stock?


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## Minato ku

Val de Fontenay


----------



## juanico

In this kind of case, all that comes to mind is: "ugly as f***!"


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## L2

I'd like to thank the people at SNCF for going on strike during Tuesday when I needed to catch RER B to CDG-Airport. Thankfully there was a limited service operating, but had I not known the suburb the airport is in is called 'Roissy' I would not have found it, most tourists wouldn't hno:

Otherwise the systems seems fairly efficient, but Paris seems to pretend it's suburbs beyond the metro boundary do not exist. I've seen a Lonely Planet guidebook with a map of 'Greater Paris' that doesn't even cover all of the metro length.

I also recommend riding the line A to Boissy St-Leger for any tourists, I had a nice & cheap cherry tart from a bakery near the station there :lol:. For some reason the train I got there was a different model to every other one on the line.


----------



## Minato ku

L2 said:


> I'd like to thank the people at SNCF for going on strike during Tuesday when I needed to catch RER B to CDG-Airport. Thankfully there was a limited service operating, but had I not known the suburb the airport is in is called 'Roissy' I would not have found it, most tourists wouldn't hno:


RER B is operated by two compaginies, RATP and SNCF.
The RATP southern part to Gare Nord
The SNCF nothern part from Gare du Nord

When there is strike the part of the two RER B are separated.
The RER B RATP still use the underground platform but the RER B SNCF depart form the overground suburban platform



> Otherwise the systems seems fairly efficient, but Paris seems to pretend it's suburbs beyond the metro boundary do not exist. I've seen a Lonely Planet guidebook with a map of 'Greater Paris' that doesn't even cover all of the metro length.


Yes and no, the city council used to pretend it but it not really anymore the case.
By exemple that's why there is fewer circulation modification because in most cars in the center come from the suburbs that are badly deserved and that velib come in innermost suburbs.
Many people want a Greater Paris, a city that include the center and many of the suburbs.

Anyway never completly trust what you see in tourist guides. I love affirmation Paris is not sprawled city it only cover 105 km². :lol:
But usuallly when we speak of sprawl we include the suburbs and with the suburbs, Paris is over 2,000 km². 

In my opinion the best english guide about Paris that I read was the Time Out.



> I also recommend riding the line A to Boissy St-Leger for any tourists, I had a nice & cheap cherry tart from a bakery near the station there :lol:. For some reason the train I got there was a different model to every other one on the line.


The branchs St Germain and Boissy Saint Leger use the MS61 stock while the Poissy Cergy and Marne La Vallee branchs use the MI84 and Mi2N stocks.


----------



## hans280

L2 said:


> I'd like to thank the people at SNCF for going on strike during Tuesday when I needed to catch RER B to CDG-Airport.


Strikes are a big problem, I agree. The irony of this is, it's not because the trade unions are strong, but on the contrary because they're so ****ing weak. SNCF has about 7 unions, and each of them organise only a few percent of the staff. In a country like Germany or Sweden a strong central union would sit down with the employeers and drive a hard bargain. In Paris, they go on strike 10 times per year "Pour Se Faire Entendre". 



L2 said:


> Thankfully there was a limited service operating, but had I not known the suburb the airport is in is called 'Roissy' I would not have found it, most tourists wouldn't.


Come on, you're just criticising anything you can find to criticise! hno: If you'd been to Copenhagen you'd complain that nobody told you the airport is in Kastrup. In the Netherlands, how could anybody expect visiting Aussies to know the airport is called Schiphol...? There are some of us who know that Logan Airport is in Boston, and O'hare is in Chicago... before going abroad. 



L2 said:


> Otherwise the systems seems fairly efficient, but Paris seems to pretend it's suburbs beyond the metro boundary do not exist. I've seen a Lonely Planet guidebook with a map of 'Greater Paris' that doesn't even cover all of the metro length.


This is about to change: the new(ish) president has grand plans for knitting, so far northwestern and northern, suburbs into the urban fabric. Over the next decade apparently we'll see a new driverless metro, a coupld of metro prolongations and 3 tramway lines to further this objective. - Together with a great deal of urban redevelopment in Saint Denis (this has started already) and a significant expansion of the business district La Defense.


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## Augusto

hans280 said:


> Come on, you're just criticising anything you can find to criticise! hno: If you'd been to Copenhagen you'd complain that nobody told you the airport is in Kastrup. In the Netherlands, how could anybody expect visiting Aussies to know the airport is called Schiphol...? There are some of us who know that Logan Airport is in Boston, and O'hare is in Chicago... before going abroad.


Sorry hans280 but those names you are refering to are the airports names: O'hare and Schiphol are the official names just like Charles de Gaulle. And I'm sure that L2 knows the name "Charles de Gaulle". 
Nevertheless "Roissy", which is widely used by French people, is not known abroad. And if the Paris transport staff use this name instead of CDG like they usually do in their annoucements it will not be obvious for a foreigner where the train is heading to.


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## Substructure

Abhishek901 said:


> Why there is a problem of air quality when all the trains are electric ?


No I meant the braking dust, everytime a train brakes it creates particles that make the air so thick deep in the RER tunnels. Same problem in the London tube by the way.

Regenerative braking is a way to limit this braking dust and keep the air cleaner.


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## Abhishek901

I thought the trains use electromagnetic braking, where current is passed through the axles and it slows down the axle through electromagnetic forces. In this case there is no physical force/friction applied for braking.


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## ajw373

Abhishek901 said:


> I thought the trains use electromagnetic braking, where current is passed through the axles and it slows down the axle through electromagnetic forces. In this case there is no physical force/friction applied for braking.


Not quite.

When you remove power from an electric motor it becomes a generator (provide of course the motor is turning) of electricity rather than a user of electricity. There are two things you can do with this electricity. You can either feed the power generated into resistors to burn the energy off or feed the power back into the power line. Both methods help slow the train down as a load is being placed on the motor, which makes it harder to turn, thus slowing the train. I guess you could loosely call that electromagnetic braking.

However it is not a replacement for physical brakes, it is simple used in conjunction with physical brakes.


----------



## Minato ku

The new livery of the refurbished MI79


























Metropole

uke: Ugly I hope they will change it.


----------



## Abhishek901

That grey colour is okay but 2 different colours for doors !! hno:


----------



## Hugues75

Abhishek901 said:


> That grey colour is okay but 2 different colours for doors !! hno:


In fact, it's because RER B is both RATP & SNCF. So the idea was to use the colors of the both companies... But not really a good idea !


----------



## Abhishek901

Hugues75 said:


> In fact, it's because RER B is both RATP & SNCF. So the idea was to use the colors of the both companies... But not really a good idea !


If that was the idea, then they could have used red colour on the doors and have a turquoise strip on the side of the train. What was the need for this brotherly show-off on the doors :laugh:


----------



## Minato ku

^^ The NAT (new suburban train) livery changed a few days before its first commercial use.
We can hope a bit as the refurbished MI79 will not run before july.


----------



## Abhishek901

Minato ku said:


> ^^ The NAT (new suburban train) livery changed a few days before its first commercial use.
> We can hope a bit as the refurbished MI79 will not run before july.


Is that Transilien ? Looks great but could have done away with multi-coloured seats.


----------



## Minato ku

Avenue Henri Martin



















Gennevilliers


----------



## MrNogatco

Brice said:


> I think it's a socialist ideology too. That's why there's no transverse seating in the NYC subway. Public transit is too often seen as a socialist thing in the US. That's one of the reasons that makes NY transit sytem is so austere and inhuman.


You, my friend are a moron. Isn't the LIRR, Metronorth, PATH etc. all run by PRIVATE for-profit companies? As for austere and inhuman, the average suburban North American shopping mall fits that description nicely...and they're not exactly bastions of socialism. lol hno:

Back in the 70s and 80s the leftists were accused of being overly ideological, but today it is nutty right-wingers who are über ideological. Many are so deluded they consider everything that isn't working in the service of hardcore capitalism as "socialist" or "communist". Give your collective  heads a shake. :weird:

/rant

We now return you to the topic at hand, the Paris RER system.


----------



## Gag Halfrunt

MrNogatco said:


> You, my friend are a moron. Isn't the LIRR, Metronorth, PATH etc. all run by PRIVATE for-profit companies? As for austere and inhuman, the average suburban North American shopping mall fits that description nicely...and they're not exactly bastions of socialism. lol hno:


Those lines were built by private railroads, but they are now operated by state agencies. By the end of the 1970s, private railroads in the US had abandoned their passenger services or handed them over to Amtrak or local public operators.


----------



## parcdesprinces

Gag Halfrunt said:


> Those lines were built by private railroads, but they are now operated by state agencies.


Same for the Paris Métro BTW !


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Yeah, there were 2 private companies building and operating the metro back then. One failed...


----------



## parcdesprinces

HARTride 2012 said:


> One failed...


Indeed, but the most beautiful stations are the ones built by this company imho (Compagnie Nord-Sud) !


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
And those stations would be?


----------



## parcdesprinces

HARTride 2012 said:


> And those stations would be?


- The whole current line 12/Nord-Sud: Line A
- The whole former line 13/Nord-Sud: Line B (current line 13, north from St-Lazare)
- The whole former line 14/Nord-Sud: Line C (current line 13, south from Montparnasse)












*Some details of the Nord-Sud Stations :*

































Source: pagesperso-orange.fr/reseau.nord-sud


----------



## Augusto

The stations on actual lines 12 and 13 that were already there in the 30th.. 
That excludes the central part of line 13, finished in the 70th, and most of the stations outside the Périphérique (ring road). 
Those lines used to be called A and B, then 12, 13 and 14, and now 12 and 13, after 13 and 14 merged in the 70th. 

Please note that the stations under refurbishment on those two lines are given a "Nord-Sud" style, wether they were originally Nord-Sud or CMP..


----------



## parcdesprinces

I forgot to mention the fact that "Nord-Sud" stations with green faience are interchange stations (or "Terminus"), the brown ones being used in normal stations !


----------



## Hugues75

The line C was just a project of the Nord-Sud Company, but was built by the CMP with the number 14.


----------



## edubejar

manrush said:


> Thank you for clearing up my confusion.


No problem, but I don't intend to be the legitimate person to reply to that. I'm sure someone else can give a better reason. That was just me thinking aloud, actually


----------



## dale88

manrush said:


> So, lines A, B and possibly E are more MRT-like.
> 
> I wonder why lines C and D have not become part of Transilien, as they are basically suburban lines.


Another reason why both lines are not qualified as Transilien is maybe because the SNCF saw the success of the RER lines run by the RATP and as a result decided to use the RER name to attract people to use these 2 lines. 

Something identical can be seen with tram lines when the RATP opened the T2 line which is a suburban train line converted into a tram line because the level of ridership did not justify the use of trains. 
When the SNCF saw the success of the line, they decided that future train lines that are projected to be converted into tram lines will be run by the SNCF.


----------



## ajw373

manrush said:


> I wonder why lines C and D have not become part of Transilien, as they are basically suburban lines.


I caught RER C to Versailles the other day and the platforms of the stations clearly had Transilien branding as well as some trains.

As I understand it the brand Transilien is applied to all railways lines, suburban and RER operated by SNCF in the greater Paris region. Indeed the suburban lines now use and advertise line letters just like RER, so the distinction between the two seems to be bluring quite a lot.


----------



## lucaf1

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gare_de_Montigny_-_Beauchamp_08.jpg


----------



## Minato ku

This is true.
All the suburban lines of the SNCF (including RER) are Transilien but in the common usage it only refers to non RER suburban lines.


----------



## Augusto

Minato ku said:


> This is true.
> All the suburban lines of the SNCF (including RER) are Transilien but in the common usage it only refers to non RER suburban lines.


Well, I would say that in the common usage Transilien doesn't refer to many things. For the average Parisian what is not a RER is simply a "train de banlieue" (outskirt train). This is also the way they are refered to by the displays in the main rail stations and the Métro rather than "Transilien".


----------



## Minato ku

Auber


----------



## Monologo

realmente me encanta el sistema de transporte francés, el RER es un ejemplo de un buen sistema ferroviario.

embrassades de Santiago du Chili


----------



## CNGL

I want to see the future map I saw years ago made reality. Especially I want to get rid of that tunnel of the







* and bring back the old plans...

*If they didn't already got rid of it due to crisis.


----------



## Minato ku

CNGL said:


> I want to see the future map I saw years ago made reality. Especially I want to get rid of that tunnel of the
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * and bring back the old plans...


It would be bad.
The actual plan is better, building a tunnel between Haussmann Saint Lazare and Nanterre la Folie and continue overground via new and older track.
The old plan planned to use the already overcrowded Saint Lazare tracks

With the RER E in tunnel the tracks of Saint Lazare would have less train, allowing an increase of other services.



> *If they didn't already got rid of it due to crisis.


It is unlikely, in the three routes proposed all are a tunnel between Haussmann Saint Lazare and la Defense/Nanterre la Folie.


----------



## CNGL

^^ Mantes la Jolie?


----------



## Minato ku

Minato ku said:


> It is unlikely, in the three routes proposed all are a tunnel between Haussmann Saint Lazare and la Defense/Nanterre la Folie.





CNGL said:


> ^^ Mantes la Jolie?


No, I mean Nanterre la Folie.
Nanterre la Folie is a freight railway station near la Défense.
It is where will emerge the RER E tunnel.


----------



## Minato ku

Minato ku said:


> The new livery of the refurbished MI79
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Metropole
> 
> uke: Ugly I hope they will change it.


Hopefully they heard our complain about the livery.
The new version is better.


















Metropole


----------



## juanico

^^ Indeed. I like it how it is.


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
I will second that


----------



## Minato ku

Minato ku said:


> Nanterre la Folie is a freight railway station near la Défense.
> It is where will emerge the RER E tunnel.


We don't see it the sattelite view that I posted, Nanterre la Folie is close to Nanterre Préfecture RER A station.
These two stations will be connected in 2020.


Nanterre Préfecture


----------



## Minato ku

Nanterre Préfecture station is currently under renovation to be more accessible.
Three new entrances are being build.

A schematic draw of Nanterre Préfecture in 2012


click to see a bigger version


----------



## Minato ku

Video showing the Inclined Elevators in two RER station.
The elevators are not particulary interesting but the huge space of the stations is.

Nation














Charles de Gaulle Etoile


----------



## dl3000

^ Ha, like a funicular. Cool.


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
:lol:


----------



## manrush

Have there been any updates on the MI-09 or the refurbished MI-79 trains?


----------



## Alargule

parcdesprinces said:


> BTW, the most part of this section (opened as RER C in the late 80s) is a part of the former "Ligne d'Auteuil" (Gare d'Auteuil-Boulogne <-> Gare de Pont Cardinet).
> The ligne d'Auteuil was the last part of the Petite Ceinture still open till the mid 80s... I took that line several times when I was a child and I remember it very well because it looked like the old small railways between small villages in the countryside, and that was quite fun (tiny trains, tiny stations etc) !


Very interesting post, parcdesprinces! What occurred to me is that the stations that were reopened as part of Ligne C all have been covered, whereas they were in an open cut before the reconstruction took place.


----------



## Minato ku

^^ Don't forget that this part run in a very weathy part of Paris.
The local residents can be very annoying about noise requirements.

This has delayed the construction of this branch (called VMI, Montmorency valley - Invalides) and this has considerably reduced its speeds (40 km/h instead of 80 km/h in the underground part.

Because this line is a branch of the RER C, it has very low frequencies (4 tph in off peak) so it is not very attractive. 
The inner Paris stations with no metro transfers are among the last used of this branch.

There are projects to improve the frequencies and speed of this line.
According me, the best would be to separate the VMI of the RER C and to close some inner Paris stations.



manrush said:


> Have there been any updates on the MI-09 or the refurbished MI-79 trains?


No, unfortunately.

______________________________________________________

Nanterre Université station








By 2014 the station will be completly rebuilt.


















Nanterre Université was build in 1972 as a temporary station before the construction of a new underground station, cancelled later.
So the temporary station is still here. :lol:


----------



## JustinB

Minato,

Can you recommend good books that cover the construction, and development of the RER system?


----------



## Minato ku

^^ In english I coudn't recommend any books.
In french, "La Saga du RER" of Christian Gerondeau was quite good.

_______________________________________

Boissy Saint Leger


----------



## ajw373

JustinB said:


> Minato,
> 
> Can you recommend good books that cover the construction, and development of the RER system?


There is an English language book called the "RER Handbook". Bit old not but covers exactly what you want. There are also similar books for the Metro and TGV.


----------



## parcdesprinces

Alargule said:


> Very interesting post, parcdesprinces! What occurred to me is that the stations that were reopened as part of Ligne C all have been covered, whereas they were in an open cut before the reconstruction took place.


Thanks !

You're right about covered stations, except for Avenue Henri Martin (covered in the early 70s: almost 20 years before the RER).
BTW, if you look at a map of Paris, you can see that the Haussmannian boulevards folow these (former) "open-cut" railways=The well-known urban planning of Paris !

--------------------




Minato ku said:


> Don't forget that this part run in a very weathy part of Paris.
> The local residents can be very annoying about noise requirements.
> 
> This has delayed the construction of this branch (called VMI, Montmorency valley - Invalides) and this has considerably reduced its speeds (40 km/h instead of 80 km/h in the underground part.


I agree about delays and additional cost for this part of RER C, but, you're a bit unfair, 'cause as far I know, all the open-air stations, built below ground level in Paris-centre, were covered when it was possible/needed/asked by the neighbors (whatever the district, wealthy or not, "annoying residents" or not): Boulainvilliers, Champs de Mars, Alma, Invalides, Pte de Clichy, St-Ouen, Bd. Victor, Bibliothèque/Bd. Masséna...

As a matter of fact, all RER C stations of inner-Paris are covered.....except Javel. (+ Kennedy-Radio France station, which is partially covered despite it is above ground level) !


----------



## Minato ku

^^ Ok I admit that I am a bit unfair in this case.
________________________________________

Le Raincy - Villemomble - Montfermeil


----------



## Minato ku

Maison-Alfort Alforville


----------



## Minato ku

Evry Courcouronnes


----------



## Minato ku

Cergy - Le Haut


----------



## Minato ku

La Courneuve Aubervilliers 
The station is next to the A86 highway

Here the work for the







extention, here there will not have a metro station but the end of the tunnel.
Anyway don't worry a later extension is planned to this station and even further.













































The train was really overcrowded.
The service during this strike is quite good but the train before was canceled for technical problem and this train was 15 minute late due at the high number of passengers.

Gare du Nord surface platform
The RER B is divided in two during strike, the southern RER section terminate on undergound platform and the northern SNCF section on surface platforms.


----------



## Bogdy

Old RER in Romania
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5uj7qoqvmk


----------



## Alargule

What's that contraption to the right supposed to be? Is that the highway?


----------



## Minato ku

Yes it is the highway but it has walls and roof. More and more urban freeways are covered.


----------



## Abhishek901

Minato ku said:


> Yes it is the highway but it has walls and roof. More and more urban freeways are covered.


Why are they covered ?


----------



## nanar

To limit the noise level for people living around ...


----------



## HARTride 2012

It must be expensive to build those walls. They're HUGE


----------



## Augusto

Much cheaper than in the rich areas though: in the very affluent western suburb this highway (Paris second ring road or A86) is totaly underground, between Rueil and Versailles.


----------



## Minato ku

Between Gentilly and Laplace above a street and the A6a motorway


----------



## Balkanada

How much do fares cost on the RER?


----------



## NvkR

Unlike the metro, on the RER the cost of a journey depends on the zones through which you travel. A ride within the city of Paris and it's close suburbs (zone 1 and 2) will cost you the same price as the metro: 1,70e no matter the length of the journey. There are 6 zones in the Ile-de-France region (used to be 8, but zones 7 and 8 are now considered as zone 6). The fares go from 1,70e to approx 15e, this last fare being the longest journey troughout the region.










Note that some metro lines go beyond zone 2. For example La Defense metro stop is geographically in zone 3, but all metro stops have a zone 1 and 2 fare. On the other side, the RER stop is in zone 3 geographically and fare wise. So it will cost you more to use the RER to go there.


----------



## Balkanada

^^ Not bad, are there monthly passes though?


----------



## NvkR

Yeah, here are the monthly pass prices that can be found on the RATP website:

zones 1 - 2 : 60e40 
zones 1 - 3 : 78e20 
zones 1 - 4 : 95e50 
zones 1 - 5 : 109e90 
zones 1 - 6 : 123e60 

zones 2 - 3 : 57e30 
zones 2 - 4 : 72e50 
zones 2 - 5 : 86e30 
zones 2 - 6 : 97e70 

zones 3 - 4 : 55e90 
zones 3 - 5 : 69e00 
zones 3 - 6 : 79e60 

zones 4 - 5 : 55e70 
zones 4 - 6 : 62e40 
zones 5 - 6 : 54e90


----------



## HARTride 2012

NvkR said:


> Unlike the metro, on the RER the cost of a journey depends on the zones through which you travel. A ride within the city of Paris and it's close suburbs (zone 1 and 2) will cost you the same price as the metro: 1,70e no matter the length of the journey. There are 6 zones in the Ile-de-France region (used to be 8, but zones 7 and 8 are now considered as zone 6). The fares go from 1,70e to approx 15e, this last fare being the longest journey troughout the region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note that some metro lines go beyond zone 2. For example La Defense metro stop is geographically in zone 3, but all metro stops have a zone 1 and 2 fare. On the other side, the RER stop is in zone 3 geographically and fare wise. So it will cost you more to use the RER to go there.


What are the other lines pictured in this illustration? It looks confusing.


----------



## NvkR

^^
The other lines are the Transilien lines (H,J,K,L,N,P,R,U).
They are exactly like RER lines except that they are fully operated by SNCF and they all end up in terminal stations instead of passing through Paris like the RER lines. There is a thread dedicated to the transilien lines in the "railways" section of SSC. Weird, because to me they are just like RER lines.


----------



## Minato ku

NvkR said:


> The other lines are the Transilien lines (H,J,K,L,N,P,R,U).


I would use the name "network" instead of "line".



NvkR said:


> They are exactly like RER lines except that they are fully operated by SNCF and they all end up in terminal stations instead of passing through Paris like the RER lines. There is a thread dedicated to the transilien lines in the "railways" section of SSC. Weird, because to me they are just like RER lines.


There are still some big difference depending the line, I admit that the RER C and D are very similar with some Transilien service but RATP RER (line A and B) is nothing like that.


----------



## caserass

Minato ku said:


> There are still some big difference depending the line, I admit that the RER C and D are very similar with some Transilien service but RATP RER (line A and B) is nothing like that.


Why ? I don't understand what you mean here....

Actually, to me, the transilien is like the RER and a lot of people uses it like that too ? so why it is so different to you ? 

I already asekd but what the transilien is in another topic, both should be together, don't you think ?


----------



## aliesperet

^^^^
I think what Minato Ku means is that RER A and B work like a metro-system, and the others work like suburbian rail.


----------



## Minato ku

^^ That's right.



caserass said:


> I already asekd but what the transilien is in another topic, both should be together, don't you think ?


Actually, I created the "Paris suburban system" thread before the "Paris RER".
Until the creation of this RER thread, both system (RER and non RER commuter train) were on Paris suburban rail.

Both threads are too big to allow any merge but the "Railway" subforum is maybe a bad place for the "Paris suburban system" topic.
If somebody want it, I could ask a moderator to move the "Paris suburban system" thread inside the "Subways and Urban Transport" subforum.

________________________________________________________








Châtelet les Halles


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
I spy the old RATP logo on that train


----------



## Minato ku

HARTride 2012 said:


> ^^
> I spy the old RATP logo on that train


The MI79 was produced between 1980 and 1983 at the time the RATP still had its old logo.
The lively of train didn't change since then.


----------



## Minato ku

The first MI79 refurbished run today.


----------



## aliesperet

Still don't like it that much. But is it just me or is the black re-done? The black on page 30 looks like grey. this looks better!


----------



## manrush

They should have at least put some longitudinal seating in. Maybe an arrangement more similar to the Metropolitan Line's S stock.


----------



## HARTride 2012

Overall, the refurbishment is pretty good


----------



## Minato ku

aliesperet said:


> Still don't like it that much. But is it just me or is the black re-done? The black on page 30 looks like grey. this looks better!


The brightness and the quality of a picture can easily turn black to gray.



manrush said:


> They should have at least put some longitudinal seating in. Maybe an arrangement more similar to the Metropolitan Line's S stock.


I agree.


----------



## NvkR

Minato ku said:


> The first MI79 refurbished run today.


WOW!! It looks nice afterall! I really like the colors of the exterior of the trains. The interior is too flashy... But when you compare it with the old interior it is clear that this is way better.


----------



## Davodavo

NvkR said:


> WOW!! It looks nice afterall! I really like the colors of the exterior of the trains. The interior is too flashy... But when you compare it with the old interior it is clear that this is way better.


Yeah, there is a huge difference!!


----------



## Axelferis

great i used this line when go to my girlfriend family i hope to take it next christmas

cool


----------



## aliesperet

Looks _amazin'!_.

Do you know where it comes from? I couldn't find any pictures of them yet.


----------



## Minato ku

^^ This picture was inside a PDF published by the STIF and the RATP.

Other pictures.







































































http://www.defense-92.com/lesnewsdeladefense.html


----------



## manrush

Those trains look very nice.

It's also good to see them having more standing room.


----------



## juanico

I just love the livery :cheers:

Seems that they went with the previous MI2N trains inside arrangement though.


----------



## HARTride 2012

Neat trains.


----------



## [email protected]

Refurbished MI79s look good but they completely mess up the coloring scheme. First line D, now line B...it's becoming a huge mess.


----------



## Luli Pop

best commuter rolling stock ever!

MI09 is exactly what Buenos Aires desperatly needs for its overcrowed lines.


----------



## Minato ku

I found an old article of Popular Science (August 1972) relating the construction of Auber station.
http://books.google.com/books?id=DcnNNf0w8uAC&pg=PA61&lpg=PA61&dq=Popular+science+1972+Paris+metro&source=bl&ots=5lz3UzgAXa&sig=HM_rEVFULuNP0MCRfxtOa_e1Zqs&hl=en&ei=ZhpXTaisKsWwhAfl9KGnDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false


----------



## manrush

Is it feasible to upgrade the RER C and RER D to the same standards as lines A and B?


----------



## NvkR

^ Feasible, but very expensive! RER C represents 185 km of tracks and RER D 197km!! :nuts: RER B and A represent 80km and 104km respectively and have twice the number of passengers than lines C and D. I think this is the reason why the Region doesnt consider the upgrade of these lines as a priority.



Minato ku said:


>


Good trains but ...they never get the seats right! :lol:


----------



## Minato ku

^^There is some upgrade ongoing on the RER C and D.

By exemple for the RER C the region will invest over €440 million.
-Renovation of the rolling stock
-Increase of the frequencies
-Increase of the speed in inner Paris
-Construction of new tracks between Juvisy and inner Paris.
etc...
RER C will lose the branch Massy - Palaiseau - Épinay-sur-Orge.


----------



## NvkR

^ IMO, the big problem with the RER C is that the line has too many branches. Sometimes you have to wait a long time for the train that will take you to the branch you want! Increasing Frequencies won't arrange that problem. 
They should double the tracks in central Paris and make two seperate lines.


----------



## Minato ku

^^ I heard that some mission of the RER C could be separated of the line and transfered to the surface platforms of Austerlitz terminal.


----------



## HARTride 2012

Minato ku said:


> ^^There is some upgrade ongoing on the RER C and D.
> 
> By exemple for the RER C the region will invest over €440 million.
> -Renovation of the rolling stock
> -Increase of the frequencies
> -Increase of the speed in inner Paris
> -Construction of new tracks between Juvisy and inner Paris.
> etc...
> RER C will lose the branch Massy - Palaiseau - Épinay-sur-Orge.


Why is this line losing this branch?

& any specific info about the rolling stock refurb?


----------



## Minato ku

^^ This branch will become a part of Evry -Massy Tram Train 
There is nothing spectacular about the the renovation of the rolling stock.


----------



## aliesperet

If you want to know more about the rolling stock, i found a .PDF file on which you can see what rolling stock will be on what line by 2016, may be interresting.


----------



## HARTride 2012

Minato ku said:


> ^^ This branch will become a part of Evry -Massy Tram Train
> There is nothing spectacular about the the renovation of the rolling stock.


But what exactly are they doing? Just updating the interiors a bit? I know a lot of the SNCF double decker trains have been repainted in their newer livery.


----------



## NvkR

^ Updating the interior with new colored seats, better lighting, better design, flat screens, lit up maps and voice that indicates the stations for better information and yeah... a repainted exterior.


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Sounds great!


----------



## Minato ku

Les Ardoines


----------



## boczek

^^it's very nice indeed but the video shoud have been made during the rush hour. it would be much cooler then.


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Ditto


----------



## HARTride 2012

Minato ku said:


> This whole page seems to be dedicated to the RER C, so...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neuilly - Porte Maillot


I did not say anything about this station before. But it looks utterly horrendous (like the rest of the core RER C stations). Judging by the brick wall in the second to last photo, was this one of the stations that used to be "outdoor" but then was covered over later?


----------



## parcdesprinces

HARTride 2012 said:


> Judging by the brick wall in the second to last photo, was this one of the stations that used to be "outdoor" but then was covered over later?



Here is your answer :




parcdesprinces said:


> BTW, the most part of this section (opened as RER C in the late 80s) is a part of the former "Ligne d'Auteuil" (Gare d'Auteuil-Boulogne <-> Gare de Pont Cardinet).
> The ligne d'Auteuil was the last part of the Petite Ceinture still open till the mid 80s... I took that line several times when I was a child and I remember it very well because it looked like the old small railways between small villages in the countryside, and that was quite fun (tiny trains, tiny stations etc) !
> 
> 
> 
> *Ligne d'Auteuil (1854-1985)*
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> 
> Here are the two closed stations of the former Ligne d'Auteuil:
> 
> *Auteuil-Boulogne* (1854-1985)
> Early 80s
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> petiteceinture.org
> 
> Nowadays
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> ..
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> flickr
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> ---------------------------------------------------
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> 
> *Passy-La Muette* (1854-1985)
> Early 80s
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> petiteceinture.org
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> Nowadays
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> flickr
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> Early 80s (between Passy-La Muette station and Avenue Henri Martin station)
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> wiki
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> Nowadays
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> flickr
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> 
> ---------------------------------------------------
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> 
> Here are the four stations of the former Ligne d'Auteuil closed in 1985 and reopened as RER C stations in 1988:
> 
> *Avenue Henri Martin* (1854-1985, reopened in 1988)
> 
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> Nowadays
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> ---------------------------------------------------
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> *Avenue Foch* (1854-1985, reopened in 1988)
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> Early 80s
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> wiki
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> Nowadays
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> flickr
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> ---------------------------------------------------
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> *Neuilly-Porte Maillot* (1854-1985, reopened in 1988)
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> Early 80s
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> wiki
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> Nowadays
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> flickr
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> ---------------------------------------------------
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> *Pereire-Levallois* (1854-1985, reopened in 1988)
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> Early 80s
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> Nowadays
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> flickr
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> flickr
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> ---------------------------------------------------
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> 
> The section between Pereire and Pont Cardinet was closed in 1996.
> From 1988 till 1996 there were shuttles between these two stations in order to make the junction from the RER C at Pereire with the suburban trains of the St-Lazare lines at Pont Cardinet.
> BTW, originally, the Ligne d'Auteuil ended at St-Lazare (from 1854 to 1922).
> 
> *Pont Cardinet* (1854-1996 for this part of the station, the other part of the station is still in use)
> 
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> Early 80s
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> petiteceinture.org
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> Mid 90s (Pont Cardinet <-> Pereire shuttle at Pont Cardinet station)
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> petiteceinture.org
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> petiteceinture.org
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> Nowadays
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> Part still in use
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> flickr


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## Larmey

^^ Fascinating history! I was unaware of this historical gem.


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## mcarling

manrush said:


> At the very least, they could get rid of that whole 'changing of driver' business when the train comes to the border between the RATP and SNCF jurisdictions.


When will they switch to automated driverless trains?


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## manrush

mcarling said:


> When will they switch to automated driverless trains?


The RER doesn't have signaling conducive to driverless operation.


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## Minato ku

There are serious discussion about the installation of ATO on the central section of the RER A.
SNCF also want to instal ATO on busy track section.

The current insfrasctruture of the RER wouldn't allow driverless train but it is possible to have automatic drive with a cab operator like what exist on most metro line.


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## HARTride 2012

Minato ku said:


> There are serious discussion about the installation of ATO on the central section of the RER A.
> SNCF also want to instal ATO on busy track section.
> 
> The current insfrasctruture of the RER wouldn't allow driverless train but it is possible to have automatic drive with a cab operator like what exist on most metro line.


That would be good. Although it would probably be pretty expensive to do this conversion.



parcdesprinces said:


> Here is your answer :


Thank you sir. I thought this was the case, just needed confirmation lol.


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## manrush

Minato ku said:


> There are serious discussion about the installation of ATO on the central section of the RER A.
> SNCF also want to instal ATO on busy track section.
> 
> The current insfrasctruture of the RER wouldn't allow driverless train but it is possible to have automatic drive with a cab operator like what exist on most metro line.


Interesting.

In the legal sense, is the RER counted as an urban railway or as a mainline railway?


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## Minato ku

I don't think that these terms exist in France in legal sense like in USA.


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## ajw373

manrush said:


> Interesting.
> 
> In the legal sense, is the RER counted as an urban railway or as a mainline railway?


Don't take this as a personal attack, but may I ask why Americans are so obsessed with pidgeon holing everything with hard and fast definitions? Is there something with the way transit is run or funded in America that is so dependent upon a systems being specifically classified? 

Your question above is one such example and reading through these threads there is debate after debate on what systems are (take the debates about what is or isn't light rail, or metro etc), when at the end of the day in most countries a label is just that a label. What a system is and does more or less speaks for itself.


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## FDW

ajw373 said:


> Is there something with the way transit is run or funded in America that is so dependent upon a systems being specifically classified?


Pretty much, yeah. There's a reason why America hasn't built or is planning a new Heavy Rail system (in a city without an existing system) in the Lower 48 states since Los Angeles's system opened in 1993. It's also why our new Light Rail lines tend to be commuter oriented and lack subway sections where they could use them.


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## manrush

ajw373 said:


> Don't take this as a personal attack, but may I ask *why Americans are so obsessed with pidgeon holing everything with hard and fast definitions? Is there something with the way transit is run or funded in America that is so dependent upon a systems being specifically classified?*
> 
> Your question above is one such example and reading through these threads there is debate after debate on what systems are (take the debates about what is or isn't light rail, or metro etc), when at the end of the day in most countries a label is just that a label. What a system is and does more or less speaks for itself.


Yeah, unfortunately. It also depends on what's politically and finacially feasible.

Also, some of the regulations in the US require that there be rigid classifications among systems.


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## LtBk

Aside from NYC, DC, and LA, I don't know any US city that is expanding their metro systems.


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## MarcVD

manrush said:


> Interesting.
> 
> In the legal sense, is the RER counted as an urban railway or as a mainline railway?


Not an easy answer. The RATP is funded by the Paris urban community,
so the RATP part of the RER is definitely urban rail. But RER also operates
on SNCF lines, some of which having a pure urban rail status too (like the
intra-muros section of RER C, or the Magenta-Haussman part of the RER E),
and some others used for RER, for long distance passenger traffic, and even
for freight. Operations-wise, all RER lines and all "Transilien" lines are funded
locally, not by the state. For the infrastructure, there is probably a large
grey area between the two.


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## Attus

manrush said:


> Interesting.
> In the legal sense, is the RER counted as an urban railway or as a mainline railway?


In Europe several types of railbound transit are not so strictly separated legally like in the US. And things work more and more so that these differences between rail types will disappear. A good example for it is RER itself. While inner city sections (especially RER A) work like a subway, a great part of RER network (basically surface sections) are totally bound to main lines and use the same infrastructure, sometimes even the very same tracks, together with regional railways or even freight.


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## FDW

LtBk said:


> Aside from NYC, DC, and LA, I don't know any US city that is expanding their metro systems.


BART in the San Francisco Bay Area has an extension under construction.


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## LtBk

I forget about BART.


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## FDW

LtBk said:


> I forget about BART.


A lot of people do, despite it's influence on modern metro systems.


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## HARTride 2012

I've never rode BART, but seen the system in photos and movies lol.


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## LtBk

FDW said:


> A lot of people do, despite it's influence on modern metro systems.


I was actually referring to group of cities that were expanding their heavy rail systems. I forget about BART's expansion through San Francisco.


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## FDW

LtBk said:


> I was actually referring to group of cities that were expanding their heavy rail systems. I forget about BART's expansion through San Francisco.


It is expanding it's heavy rail system, the first phase of the San Jose extension is under construction right now and funding for the second phase has been lined up.


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## Minato ku




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## manrush

I wonder why RER E is operated by SNCF rather than RATP.


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## LtBk

How good is RER E and Transilien?


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## Minato ku

manrush said:


> I wonder why RER E is operated by SNCF rather than RATP.


Because the RER E is a project of the SNCF and it use the RFF track.

In the end of the 1980's, the RER A had some overcrowding issues, two projects were proposed to ease the RER A.
-the RATP with a metro line between Genevilliers and Maison Blanche called Meteor
-the SNCF with a RER line called Eole (a tunnel between Saint Lazare and Gare du Nord/Est).

[dailymotion]xfdil6_paris-transports-parisiens-projet-meteor_news[/dailymotion]


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## manrush

Are there still plans to construct an F line?


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## Minato ku

^^ No absolutely nothing. 
Excepted the extension of the RER E, the only RER project that we have is a new tunnel between Gare du Nord and Chatelet les Halles.


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## arnau_Vic

:cheers:


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## manrush

Minato ku said:


> ^^ No absolutely nothing.
> Excepted the extension of the RER E, the only RER project that we have is a new tunnel between Gare du Nord and Chatelet les Halles.


Hopefully, the extensions bring Line E to the same standards as Line A and Line B.


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## edubejar

One thing I have learned from using mass transit in multiple cities and urban areas, as well as reading-up on the details of different systems is that classification is very difficult. One cannot really create categories and attempt to put systems like the RER, BART, etc. into any given category. The RER is very unique in my opinion as is any other system like the BART. On top of that, the RER seems to be managed by 2 different authorities so that complicates its classification even further. Instead, it's more imporant to know what a system does, and the RER -is- and allows you -to-

- Travel between 2 points within Paris with few stops (similar to Express service vs Local). 

- Travel to and from the City and suburban communities

- Stations are usually underground inside Paris, surface/elevated outside

- Some lines have high frequency service like the Metro (RER A and B), while others are more like a true suburban train in which you may want to know the timetable in advance, unless you want to wait a long time (mainly the RER C...the RER D and E seem more frequent than the RER C but I could be wrong). The A and B are very frequent unless it's very late at night, when the RER in general becomes less frequent. But the RER A and B is so frequent nobody looks at the time tables during the day because it's like Metro service)

- Several RER stations inside Paris have direct underground transfer to Metro service just like transferring from Metro to Metro--some have long, underground corridors. However, regardless of this, you need a different ticket for the RER (the RER is zone-based) unless you plan to travel completely within Zone 1 (City of Paris).

- In a few places inside Paris, the RER is the only station in the immediate vicinity so it is used like the local Metro station by some. This is not unreasonable because all 5 RER lines have inside the City a minimum of 2 connector stations (with the Metro and/or other RER line, this on top of surface connections with the Bus), and every RER line has a minimum of 2 hub stations, where more options are available.


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## manrush

^^
Yeah, that's what I found a bit perplexing. That one can't use the same ticket for the RER and Metro.

I wonder if there will ever be plans to integrate ticketing for all the transportation systems in Ile-de-France, akin to Verkehrsverbund Berlin-Brandenburg.


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## Minato ku

^^ You can use the same ticket for the RER and the metro.


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## manrush

Minato ku said:


> ^^ You can use the same ticket for the RER and the metro.


Oh, my bad.


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## Minato ku

The standart ticket is called Ticket T










Ticket T allows.
-The use of the metro
-The use of the RER within the zone 1
-The use of the bus and tramway
-The interchange between the metro and RER
-The interchange between several bus line within a time limit of 90 minutes
-The interchange between between the bus and the tramway within a time limit of 90 minutes.

But you cannot use the same ticket for a transfer between the bus or tramway and the metro or RER.


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## DCOBRA-K

WOW, THAT TICKET HAS MANY POSSIBILITIES TO USE. 

GREETINGS.


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## HARTride 2012

I loved the RER B video with the refurbished stock in action. Real nice


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## ajw373

Minato ku said:


> ^^ You can use the same ticket for the RER and the metro.


Whilst of course you are technically 100% right, it is not like you can get a standard metro ticket and ride the RER to where ever you like. With a metro ticket you can only do zone 1 on the RER.


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## edubejar

^^ Yes, for the RER, you can only use the Ticket T (standard ticket) in Zone 1 (aka _dans Paris_ or Inside Paris). But technically, that is not any different (or is it?) than in London, Berlin, Madrid, etc. where the underground/metro is zone-based as well. In London, you need to have the right ticket for the right zone. In that sense, it is not any different in Paris. Consider the Paris standard ticket (Ticket T) as being a Zone 1 ticket plus an added bonus: you can ride the Metro as far as it goes (usually does not go beyond Zone 2) because the Zone 1 restriction does not apply to the Metro, but it does for the RER. 

So the Ticket T is at a minimum comparable to traveling in London with the Travelcard Zone 1 or a comparable ticket:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelcard_Zone_1

In fact, according to Wiki, London Fare zone 1 is described as:

The zone contains all of the central London districts, most of the major tourist attractions, major rail terminals, the whole of the City of London and the West End. It is about 6 miles (9.7 km) from west to east and 4 miles (6.4 km) from north to south. 

The City of Paris is roughly an oval between 5.5 and 6 miles across so it sounds even similar in geographic coverage to London's Zone 1.


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## trainrover

I agree -- were the line autonomous, then the qualifier would lie in how many passengers be left behind on the platform


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## Minato ku

yabbes said:


> I want to ask if anybody has any Info on the new RER Station at Nanterre Université. I was studying there in 2009/2010, when I left it was still ongoing, I am wondering how it looks today I remember the posters there it looked very futuristic (the plans)
> And now I have seen here in this thread the new photos from Nanterre Préfecture and it looks really nice !
> So I was wondering Thanks!!


It is still the beginning of the construction, so there is almost nothing to see.
The new station should be completed by 2014.








Nanterre Université.

















Here we see a MI84 of the Cergy /Poissy branchs passing above Nanterre Université.
Trains in this direction pass just next to this station but don't serve it.


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## mcarling

yabbes said:


> I want to ask if anybody has any Info on the new RER Station at Nanterre Université.


Is the new station related to the extension of RER E?


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## Minato ku

No, the RER E will not serve this station.
But a large part of Nanterre, where Nanterre Université and Nanterre La folie (RER E station) are located, will be redeveloped.
It is several million m² of new housing and offices space planned.

The actual station is old and don't fit for purpose and projected growth.



Minato ku said:


> Nanterre Université station
> 
> 
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> 
> By 2014 the station will be completly rebuilt.
> 
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> 
> Nanterre Université was build in 1972 as a temporary station before the construction of a new underground station, cancelled later.
> So the temporary station is still here. :lol:


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## mcarling

Minato ku said:


> No, the RER E will not serve this station.
> But a large part of Nanterre, where Nanterre Université and Nanterre La folie (RER E station) are located, will be redeveloped.


Which will be the other new stations for the extension of RER E? Am I correct in understanding that the RER E will take over one of the three western branches that currently belongs to RER A?


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## Hugues75

In fact, no ; the RER E will have as traject :

Haussmann-Saint-Lazare (current terminus, connexions : transilien, RER A, M3, M9, M12, M13, M14)
Porte Maillot (connexions with RER C & M1)
La Défense (many connexions : transilien, RER A, M1, T2)
Nanterre-La Folie
Poissy -> Mantes-la-Jolie

The Poissy branch will remain to RER A...

See a picture there :
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Carte_rer_e_ouest.png


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## mcarling

Hugues75 said:


> In fact, no ; the RER E will have as trajectory....


I see. Thank you.

I would like to see the RER A split into two lines with a new cross-Paris underground section interconnecting at Place d'Italie, Denfert-Rochereau, Duroc, and Champ de Mars. I envision the new line taking one of the branch lines from RER A at each end.


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## Minato ku

Massy Palaiseau.
They still haven't opened the new link between the two lines and the old one is in bad shape.


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## HARTride 2012

Minato ku said:


> Massy Palaiseau.
> They still haven't opened the new link between the two lines and the old one is in bad shape.


Why the delay?


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## 437.001

HARTride 2012 said:


> Very crowded......


I´ve seen worse than that.
Gare du Nord M4, for instance.


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## HARTride 2012

^^
I'm sure there are worse instances. Like M13 @ St Lazarre.


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## trainrover

Minato ku said:


> still haven't opened the new link between the two lines and the old one is in bad shape


Wanna bet you'll be writing what you've written about the old one about the new one in just one half of the old one's lifetime, only there'll be no replacement to write about?!?


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## ko7

HARTride 2012 said:


> Why the delay?


I was told (without any reliable source) that there was some misconceptions in the new link. They want to find some solution that avoid destructing it or doing some heavy work over the tracks...
If somebody have more info, I'm also interested.


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## Axelferis

Clery said:


> Gare du Nord is a rather big station and it's generally dirty (as is Paris in general).
> 
> 1/ The old surface station is dedicated to high speed service... it's not that clean but has some old stone charm.
> 2/ Then there's a new glass extension which is not that well integrated but is quite clean.
> 3/ Then there's the underground RER B and D station which is very dirty and unsafe (drug dealers/gangs spending their day there).
> 4/ Eventually, there's the underground RER E station which is very clean, well litten, and pretty.
> 
> Overall, Gare du Nord is maybe the most impressive train station in Paris, but it clearly needs a refurbishment. Nearby Gare de l'Est station has been refurbished recently and it's far better now than before.


Where are you from? paris? where did you lived before?

The only thing i recognize is the dealers and all those gangs which create a worry atmosphere hno:

But to say paris is dirty is ridiculous! some parts could be dirty but some others very clean.

You have the same in london when you are around waterloo station which surrounds are awful !

You know big cities like that have dirty parts. London or paris have no equivalent in Europe.

it's so easy to criticize


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## preservarbuenosaires

I love Paris but I have to coincide with this guy.

Let's say it's not dirty as Napoli but certainly it's not clean as Madrid or some central Europe cities. 
I'm sure it's not a matter of size.

When in Paris I always prefer riding clean buses rather than dirty metro.
I must recognize it's mostly a materials matter. Most sidewalks and metro "quais" of Paris are build with asphalt and it's impossible to keep it clean.

Many Parisians act like they don't like the city and even pee on metro stations (I've seen it at least 15 times).

Even though, it's the best city in the world.


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## Minato ku

Nanterre-Ville


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## CoralCersei

preservarbuenosaires said:


> even pee on metro stations (I've seen it at least 15 times).


Those are homeless people not regular folks.


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## HARTride 2012

^^
I was thinking the same thing...


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## Minato ku

New branch between Villiers le Bel and Parc des Exposition, this branch is also called Barreau de Gonesse.
According the planning work should begin in 2017 for an opening in 2020.

This link between the RER D and B is made to ease the access to CDG airport and other industrial hubs of northestern outer suburbs by public transport for the people living in the northern outer suburbs.
This branch is 11.4 km, the trip will be 10 minute long instead of 35 by bus. It will be served by a train every 15 minutes.

A new station will open at Gonesse in an area where some urban development are planned.



































Blue circle: Main existing areas of economic activity.
Orange circle : Main areas of economic activity in project.
The yellow zones are the possible route for a new high speed train link to CDG airport.


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## juanico

Good news since the rail solution was so far out of agenda, a BRT line being encouraged instead.


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## Nouvellecosse

What is the purpose of the other suburban trains in a city which also has the RER? Do the other trains serve more distant areas? Or perhaps a more comfortable, premium service?


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## Minato ku

^^ The RER is a system a five big lines, it doesn't cover the whole suburban railway network of Paris.
The other suburban trains are very diverse, it depend of the line.
Some like the







and







serve more distant area while the RER serve the closest area.
Some other serve the inner and outer suburbs with medium and high frequencies like the RER







,







and











HARTride 2012 said:


> Are those last trains slated for retirement soon? They look utterly old.


In 2016, all the RIB-RIO rolling stock on the J network should be replaced by the Z50000.
http://www.stif.info/IMG/pdf/MRbd-2010.pdf


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## Minato ku

The suburban rolling stock by 2016 (RER and Transilien suburban train).

Scroll >>>>>


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## HARTride 2012

^^
Neat diagram!


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## Minato ku

The STIF (the transport authority of the Paris region) launch studies about the construction of a new tunnel between Chatelet les halles and Gare du Nord.



> *Launching studies for the doubling of the Châtelet - Gare du Nord tunnel.*
> 
> STIF Board approves funding for exploratory studies and feasibility of doubling the tunnel between Châtelet and Gare du Nord for €1.3 million.
> The studies will be carried out by Réseau Ferré de France (RFF) and fully funded by STIF.
> By doubling the capacity of the tunnel, the 1.2 million passengers daily of the RER B and D that pass each day through this tunnel could see their conditions of transport greatly improved.


http://www.stif.info/IMG/pdf/STIF_-_Doublement_du_tunnel_Chatelet_-_Gare_du_Nord.pdf


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## HARTride 2012

^^
Makes tons of sense. Hopefully, it will become reality.


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## Hugues75

We all hope so ! Today, there are only 8 trains per hour on RER D, because of this common tunnel...


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## Minato ku

*The construction of Rosa Park station began.*
This new station located between Magenta and Pantin at the limit of the 18th and 19th arrondissements. It will open by the end of 2015.
68,500 passengers daily are planned.



























Picture by Geralix, wikipedia

The whole area around this new station is in redevelopment.
1.1 million m² will be built.
-411,000 m² of housing (50% social housing), about 10,000 inhabitants
-297,000 m² of offices, 15,000 employments
-230 000 m² of commercial space, 8,500 employments 
-103,000 m² of public facilities, 1,500 employments


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## Terbaddo

dale88 said:


> SNCF's stations mostly have low platforms, still there are some exceptions such as CDG 2 Airport station on the B line which has high platforms.


Not necessarily. Some RER C stations like Saint Michel have low platforms, but that's all.


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## Minato ku

Rueil-Malmaison









Rueil-Malmaison train garage


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## Minato ku

> *Ikea Builds, Furnishes Tiny Apartments in Paris Metro People living in the homes for a week*
> By David Kiefaber January 13 2012
> 
> To demonstrate how well it can furnish even the smallest space, Ikea built a couple of tiny apartments in a Paris metro station for five volunteers to live in for a week. This way, the public can bear witness to how effective Ikea's storage gear is, without the inherent fakery of a traditional ad campaign. Well, almost. After all, Ikea did build all the furniture before the volunteers moved in, which was a smart idea. Seeing angry people cursing and throwing things in frustration is common on American public transportation, but I'm not sure Paris could handle it.


http://www.adweek.com/adfreak/ikea-builds-furnishes-tiny-apartments-paris-metro-137517






PS : 581 sq ft, it is not what I would call tiny by Parisian standar, I believe that most appartement inside the city limits are smaller.

The author is clueless to what can happen in Paris RER and metro.
Except New York subway, has anybody seen a network more crazy than Paris metro/RER ?


----------



## Minato ku

Nanterre Université
A MS61 and Z6400 arriving and leaving at the same time


----------



## hkskyline

Is _vol de cable_ a common problem on the RER?


----------



## Minato ku

^^ Unfortunately, yes.


----------



## Abhishek901

hkskyline said:


> Is _vol de cable_ a common problem on the RER?


What does that mean?


----------



## Clery

Minato ku said:


> http://www.adweek.com/adfreak/ikea-builds-furnishes-tiny-apartments-paris-metro-137517
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS : 581 sq ft, it is what I would call tiny by Parisian standar, I believe that most appartement inside the city limits are smaller.


Several months ago, I remember Ikea actually replaced the normal plastic seats of the Paris metro with comfortable Ikea sofas.

That was a great concept as an advertisement.



Minato ku said:


> The author is clueless to what can happen in Paris RER and metro.
> Except New York subway, has anybody seen a network more crazy than Paris metro/RER ?


What do you mean?


----------



## Clery

Abhishek901 said:


> hkskyline said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is _vol de cable_ a common problem on the RER? What does that mean?
Click to expand...

He's talking about copper wires robbery. And indeed, the Paris RER is often victim of people stealing overhead lines in order to sell back their copper.


----------



## HARTride 2012

Clery said:


> He's talking about copper wires robbery. And indeed, the Paris RER is often victim of people stealing overhead lines in order to sell back their copper.


Wow! I did not know copper theft has become so desperate and widespread. This is sad indeed.


----------



## Augusto

HARTride 2012 said:


> Wow! I did not know copper theft has become so desperate and widespread. This is sad indeed.


same reason for the darkness of some of our main urban freeways at night.


----------



## Minato ku

Pantin
I had to wait twelve minutes at Pantin station. #*#*ing express train that doesn't stop at every station. 








This station is very spartan and undersized for the traffic. 








The line is along Gare de l'Est main line tracks

















Train bound to Villiers sur Marne








Express train from Tournan bound to central Paris








Train bound to Bondy


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Wow! So some trains are not so reliable on the E?


----------



## Minato ku

Why do you say that ? 
The schedule was normal, I just missed a train and I had to wait twelve minutes for an other because the next train for Central Paris don't stop at Pantin.


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Oh I see. I must have misinterpreted the sentence.


----------



## trainrover

I found this interesting, considering Montreal's metro's struggling with elevator installations:






(*Only* one passenger had been filmed taking that exit :uh


----------



## Minato ku

^^ These lifts are not really widely used expect for people who really need it.
It is faster to walk on escalator.
The only RER station with a wide use of lift is Auber, the station has many large lifts.












trainrover said:


> I found this interesting, considering Montreal's metro's struggling with elevator installations:


A big space is required for such lifts, central stations of the RER A are truly huge.


----------



## trainrover

Ah right, you're reminding me of that bank of lifts. What fraction/percentage of metro and RER stations there are equipped with inclined (and regular?) lifts?


----------



## Clery

Now that's what I call a short waiting time between 2 trains.
















Charles de Gaulle - Etoile


----------



## Terbaddo

"Vol de cable" is cable theft ^^


----------



## trainrover

True, although not necessarily so when presented dynamic signage clearly speculates its *suspicion* (coupled to its own crummy grammar)


----------



## Minato ku

^^ French people (including me) completely suck at spelling and grammar, it is quite usual to see misspelling and grammatical errors on information screens. 








La Défense


----------



## Winged Robot

^^ Those platforms are huge! Looks like you can fit a tennis court down there with room to spare (if it wasn't for the columns of course).


----------



## Northridge

Indeed they are huge, but ironically they can't handle the rush very well.


----------



## Minato ku

^^ The problem is not the platform but the trains.
Platforms are great, there are many exits, so the passengers are fairly well distributed along the platform.

Huge is the best word to describe the central stations of the RER A.
I often see the expression "underground cathedral" to describe them.
_____________________________________________________________








Charles de Gaulle Etoile


----------



## trainrover

I seem to remember it taking for ever walking the full length of an A-line platform at Auber, changing from one metro line at Opéra to another one at Havre Caumartin ... I'd have taken the street above instead had I known the transfer alone took that long


----------



## iampuking

The RER station sure are big, it's such a shame that they're so badly decorated though. They could become really beautiful with something better.


----------



## Northridge

^^Magenta is a good example of a nicely designed station on the system. But IMO I think many stations now a day is a bit too fancy. I rather prefer a clean station with a timeless design. Look at the Russian metro. They know how too build it timeless.


----------



## Northridge

Minato ku said:


> ^^ The problem is not the platform but the trains.
> Platforms are great, there are many exits, so the passengers are fairly well distributed along the platform.


I agree. What i was trying to say is that even though they are very huge, they are not huge enough.
Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
But Minato is right. The single-deck trains are very problematic, even though the stations are pretty large. With the MI 09 going into service, there will be many less single deck trains on the Line A.


----------



## Minato ku

Pont de l'Alma


----------



## Minato ku

Saint-Michel Notre-Dame


----------



## HARTride 2012

Minato ku said:


> The departure of the RER E at Haussmann Saint Lazare station are now indicated on the hall of Saint Lazare railway terminal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No need to rush anymore.
> Rectification: more than 3 minutes are required to do the transfer between Saint Lazare and Haussmann Saint Lazare platforms, so you need to rush. :lol:


MY TRAIN LEAVES IN 3 MINUTES! RUN! :runaway:


----------



## IanCleverly

During this video (taken from a Transillien train), you'll see quite a bit of construction going on with the planned Tangentielle Nord






(This is the nearest thread linking Regional trains, with Paris' suburban network)


----------



## Minato ku

Maybe we could add the non-RER suburban lines in this thread.
About the Tangentielle Nord, I don't know where to put it.
In suburban trains or in tram as it will use Tram-Train rolling stock ?
No T number are planned for this line.


----------



## trainrover

Although subway, London's station-closure policy's probably more solid than Montreal's:


andysimo123 said:


> Some of Londons busiest stations have safety issues of capacity. Stations can very easily be full in minutes and closed for short periods of time. The main reason why are closed is because someone could be forced on to the tracks.


----------



## Minato ku

Aulnay-sous-Bois
They increased the height of the platforms to ease the flow of passengers and to be step free.
This is part of the major renovation of the northern RER B, called RER B+ Nord.
The northern section of the RER B was known for its low platform heights.




























This is how was the station in September 2010.


Minato ku said:


>


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
I can definitely see the differences. Great improvement!


----------



## Minato ku

Châtelet-les-Halles
I met a MI09


----------



## Minato ku

Châtelet-les-Halles 
Eastbound platform screen. High frequency ?








Train à quai = train at the platform
Train à l'approche = train approaching


----------



## Svartmetall

Minato ku said:


> Maybe we could add the non-RER suburban lines in this thread.
> About the Tangentielle Nord, I don't know where to put it.
> In suburban trains or in tram as it will use Tram-Train rolling stock ?
> No T number are planned for this line.


Changed the name of the thread for you. 

Perhaps we can merge the trams with the metro thread as the trams are for shorter distances like the metro, right?


----------



## Minato ku

No, keep the trams with bus as it is now.
RATP sees the tram like heavy bus line, it is possible to do a transfer between bus and tram with a same ticket but it is not possible to do a transfer between bus or tram with metro.


----------



## Svartmetall

Minato ku said:


> No, keep the tram with bus as it is now.
> RATP sees the tram like heavy bus line, it is possible to do a transfer between bus and tram with a same ticket but it is not possible to do a transfer between bus or tram with metro.


Okay, will do. As for the tram-train, you can classify it as you see fit. I'd probably put it in here as a "suburban railway" from the sound of it though.

Great work with all these Parisian threads though, Minato!


----------



## Minato ku

Saint Lazare mostly a commuter rail terminal, so it has its place in this thread.


> *SNCF inaugurates rebuilt Paris St Lazare station*
> 21 March 2012
> 
> GUILLAUME Pepy, president of French National Railways (SNCF), today marked the completion of 10 years of work when he inaugurated the rebuilt St Lazare station in Paris. With 1600 trains and 450,000 passengers a day, St Lazare is the second busiest station in France.
> The Euros 250m scheme was a public-private partnership between SNCF, which invested Euros 90m, and Klépierre which provided the remaining Euros 160m. Spie Batignolles was the main contractor for the work.
> 
> The project involved excavating 20m below the station, which continued to function throughout the work, to create three new levels beneath the existing two subterranean levels. One of the new levels provides a new interchange with the five metro lines and RER Line E which serve St Lazare. The other two are for car parking. The station also features a 200m-long glass-covered passenger circulation area. Below this there are two levels with 80 shops and restaurants.
> 
> St Lazare has been equipped with 300 passenger-information screens, and 21 escalators and lifts.


http://www.railjournal.com/newsflash/sncf-inaugurates-rebuilt-paris-st-lazare-station-1551.html









Link to the RER E


























































































Before the station was more like a maze of dark corridors instead of a big and bright station passenger hall.
In 2008


----------



## trainrover

St-Lazare becoming English hno:


----------



## Sacré Coeur

^^ What do you mean by "english"? :dunno:


----------



## trainrover

Glaring, mean signage ... I guess Montreal must be the only French cosmopolis that's fussing about incursion in English.


----------



## Minato ku

^^ The signage is in French, English and Spanish like in many public space.
It was already the case before the renovation.
I don't get the fuss about it ? :dunno:


----------



## flierfy

Minato ku said:


> ^^ The signage is in French, English and Spanish like in many public space.
> It was already the case before the renovation.
> I don't get the fuss about it ? :dunno:


But why Spanish?


----------



## Minato ku

^^ Because there is always at least a third language.
Spanish, German or Italian.

A other picture of Saint Lazare, this time in weekday.
For those who don't know, Saint Lazare is the oldest train station in Paris.
It is also the second busiest train station in Paris and France and in Europe with 450,000 passengers per day.
The traffic increased by 40% this last decade.


----------



## trainrover

Compared to the public signage there, the commercial signs are outsized.


----------



## Minato ku

^^ Klépierre (commercial real estate company) invested 1.8 time more than the SNCF. 








Châtelet-les-Halles 
MI84 of the RER A on the right.








Refurbished MI79 of the RER B arriving








Doors of the MI79 opened and doors of the MI84 closed








Refurbished MI79


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Such a lovely station. 

Imagine having a connection here to the Metro Line 15 within 30 years......should the two "bis" lines be merged.


----------



## Nouvellecosse

Minato ku said:


> Gare du Nord


What model is this?


----------



## Minato ku

Z50000 also called NAT or Francillien.
This rolling stock is replacing Z5300 and Z6100, the awfull grey old trains.

The most unusual thing of this train is its colorfull interior.


----------



## Nouvellecosse

Good train! Are you happy with them?


----------



## HARTride 2012

Minato ku said:


> Bound to Montparnasse and coming from Rambouillet.


How old are these trains? They definitely seem to be at the end of their useful lives.


----------



## Minato ku

I took one this Thursday, it was horrible.
The Z5300 where built between 1965 and 1975.
Many have already been withdrawn but still many are still in service, it is the newest that were taken out of the service first (since 2003). :nuts:

Those on Montparnasse network were built between 1965 and 1972.
According what say Wikipedia, the train will began to be withdrawn in N network by April 2012.

So they are effectively at the end of their life.

The current oldest still in service is the number 03 (Z5303), the two first were withdrawn in 1993 and 2011.
Why 1993 for the Z5301 ? Because this is one of the trains involved in the crash of 1988 at the Gare de Lyon.



Nouvellecosse said:


> Good train! Are you happy with them?


Honestly, I don't know, I almost never use the northern suburban network.
I been in these train only three time.


----------



## Minato ku

Melun

































From Gare de Lyon bound to Montargie















arriving at Melun, its last stop

















RER D train















Melun to Montereaux line


----------



## Augusto

Minato ku said:


> A TER (I don't know of what Region) bound to Montparnasse, also notice the blue double decker RER C on the other platform.


It's not a TER. That's an "Intercités" train coming from Granville heading to Paris-Pasteur. It's written "Train Corail" on its side even if, of course, the rolling stock is not Corail. 
This 3 carriages railcar X72000 is one the first "modern" railcars ordered by SNCF at the end of the 90'. This rolling appears to be extremely unreliable and uncomfortable compared to the old rolling stock from the 60' it has replaced.


----------



## Minato ku

Weird screen in Saint Lazare.


----------



## Nouvellecosse

I like it!


----------



## Ledindondelafarce

^^ It's pretty useless when you're trying to know fast where your train is, but it's great for those not feeling confident about which train they have to take.


----------



## Minato ku

Tracks of the RER C inside Gare d'Austerlitz from metro line 5 platform









In the post 999, I wrote about the renovation of Austerlitz station.
The picture shows how big and complicated will be the renovation.
This area will be reclaimed for the passengers.


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
I'm guessing the area was a lot more desolate before renovation began?


----------



## Minato ku

^^ Well the renovation just started by the demolition of the "Buffet de la Gare" building.
Nothing have been done here.









In this render, we see the bridge of the line 5 inside the station. 
I wonder how they will do with the RER C tracks.


----------



## Minato ku

La Défense


----------



## yabbes

Please Minato, do you have information on the construction progress of the new station at Nanterre Université ??? is it finished ? Are there pictures somewhere ??


----------



## Minato ku

^^ I posted pics in the previous page.
Nanterre Université is far to be finished, we are still at the beginning of the work.
The new station will open by 2014.
Excepted a new exit on the back of the station and a a concrete slab above (where will stand the new station building) there is still nothing to see.



Minato ku said:


> Nanterre Université


A render of the new station.


----------



## Minato ku

Gare de l'Est


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
I believe you mentioned somewhere that Gare de l'est lost some of its surface rail traffic over the years. How many lines depart from Gare de l'est?


----------



## Minato ku

^^ Because of the RER E, most of suburban traffic of Gare de l'Est was transfered to Magenta and Haussmann Saint Lazare.
Now Gare de l'Est, only serve the outer suburbs.

The P network








-252 km
-32 stations
-5 routes 
-83,000 passengers per day


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
I see.

I would guess that traffic at St. Lazare will further increase should the RER E be extended to La Defense?


----------



## Ledindondelafarce

Traffic at the overground station will probably decrease, as passengers coming from the "Mantes par Poissy" line will go through the underground station, and as people now using transilien L to go to La Défense will find RER E faster and running more often. Moreover, people coming from "Mantes par Poissy" line will have two new very convenient connections at La Défense and Porte Maillot, fewer will go all the way to St Lazare.


----------



## Minato ku

^^ But in my opinion, the traffic from other lines will increase, so Saint Lazare will not be less busy than today with the RER E.

______________________________________________








Denfert-Rochereau


----------



## HARTride 2012

Question,

When I was doing a search on Youtube for videos of the RER, I stumbled upon this video of a locomotive in the corridor "Petite Ceinture". What was the purpose of this rail line, and why was it abandoned?


----------



## Minato ku

The "petite Ceinture "inner belt" is a circle railway line around inner Paris, it opened between 1852 and 1869.
With the metro, this line became less and less popular and it was closed to passengers traffic in 1934.
Its track were still in use for freight train until the early 1990's.

One section of the line remain open in the west of inner Paris between between Porte de Saint Ouen and Avenue Henri Martin as part of the RER C.


----------



## ko7

Thx for the vid.

Minato Ku beats me. But here is a bit more of history

There is mainly 3 parts of "petite ceinture" (inner belt). First you have the "ligne d'Auteuil" which was build around 1850 for passenger. This line went from Saint Lazare station to the city of Auteuil.
The "rive droite" part (Right Bank) was build for freight and military reasons. It connects the major terminals of the rail companies in Paris: Saint Lazare network (Batignolles freight yard), Gare du nord (la chapelle) and gare de l'est, then gare de Lyon (Bercy) and gare d'Austerlitz (Ivry freight yard). Moreover it was inside the fortification of Paris. This part was financed by the state.
The last part is the "rive gauche" part (left bank). It completes the loop and connects also the Montparnasse network (not really used for freight since the ouest company used the batignolles freight yard). This part was build in 1870.

Around 1900 Paris build its metro network. With faster lines, going to more central area, the ridership on the ceinture line decreased. The line closed to passenger traffic around 1934 and for freight used in 1990.
Still, a part of Auteuil line is used by rer C (along with the champ de mars link). You still had a bus ("PC bus" was its name) that goes along the same road. Around 2000 there was plan to reactivate the left bank part but the city of Paris opted for a tramway instead. 

The platform is still mostly intact. But with the "tramway des maréchaux" that is now being build, I don't believe that it will be reused. Instead I think that they will convert it to a pedestrian/bike path.


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Interesting, thanks for the info!


----------



## dale88

HARTride 2012 said:


> ^^
> I believe you mentioned somewhere that Gare de l'est lost some of its surface rail traffic over the years. How many lines depart from Gare de l'est?


Well actually Gare de l'est actually saw an increase in traffic because of the opening of the LGV Est:

-TGVs go to Strasbourg, Metz, Nancy, Reims, Colmar, Mulhouse from Gare de l'est for domestic services.

-TGVs go to Stuttgart and Munich/München in Germany and sometimes Frankfurt when there is a problem ICE 3 trains from the Deutsch Bahn (German National Railway Company).

ICE3 trains from the DB are used on Paris Est-Frankfurt services.

And about other lines you have as minato Ku said, trains from the Transilien P lines, you have some domestic long distance trains (Corail Intercités/ TER=Train Express Regional) going to France's eastern regions.
there is also 2 Night Trains with Sleeping cars departing Gare de l'est too: 

-One train is run by the german rail company under the CityNightLine brand (the brand for night trains services of the Deutsch Bahn) with German sleeping cars, going to Berlin/Hamburg/Munchen and Innsbruck in Austria. 

-the other one is the Night train for Moscow with Russian sleeping cars. 

dale88


----------



## ko7

On the other hand gare de l'est lost some trains due to the opening of the lgv Rhin-Rhone. Tgv for Belford/Mulhouse now depart at gare de lyon...


----------



## Minato ku

dale88 said:


> Well actually Gare de l'est actually saw an increase in traffic because of the opening of the LGV Est:


An increase of traffic compared to the mid 2000's but the ridership is still lower than what it was before 1999.
The LGV Est is not enough to compensate the loss of most of the suburban traffic.


----------



## Minato ku

MI84
Interlaken is a small town in Switzerland.
I don't know why there is the coat of arms of Interlaken on this MI84.


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Odd


----------



## Minato ku

La Défense 
MI09








MS61 waiting in tunnel the departure of the MI09


----------



## Nouvellecosse

Wow, that sure looks shiny!


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Wait till the grime starts to settle in though....... :/


----------



## Harrys

*Le RER C s'habille en Versailles*

Depuis ce matin, Versailles est, en quelque sorte, monté à bord du RER C.

Les voyageurs dont de nombreux touristes auront désormais au-dessus de leur tête une reproduction du plafond de la Galerie des Glaces, une treille bucolique, et d'autres lieux emblématiques ou plus intimes du monument. Les six voitures de la rame ont été parées de décors versaillais par pelliculage, comme on colle souvent désormais de la publicité sur des bus..

D'ici la fin de l'année, quatre rames desservant le château seront redécorées dans le même esprit. Cette décoration est conçue pour une durée de deux ans.

Pour fêter ce partenariat inédit entre la SNCF et le château de Versailles, un voyage inaugural de ce premier train "Versailles" etait organisé ce mercredi matin 16 mai entre la gare Bibliothèque nationale François Mitterrand et celle de Versailles-Rive-Gauche.
Catherine Pégard, présidente de l'établissement public du château de Versailles, Guillaume Pepy, président de la SNCF, Jean-Paul Huchon, président de la région Ile-de-France sont montés à bord du train.



















http://paris-ile-de-france.france3....e-rer-c-s-habille-en-versailles-73934498.html


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Anyone want to take a guess as to how long these murals will remain intact before they are vandalized?


----------



## Minato ku

Drancy


----------



## Minato ku

Bibliothèque François Mitterrand


----------



## Ledindondelafarce

Does anybody know if issues on Francilien have been fixed ? We don't hear much about it anymore.


----------



## Minato ku

Usually new rolling stock have always probl at the beginning.
It was also the case of the MF01 for the Paris metro.
As the end of April 2012, there were are 44 Z50000.

___________________________________








La Défense


















Cab ride between Saint Lazare and La Défense


----------



## Bogdy

*Magenta*






Magenta's lobby is really amazing.


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
I love the Magenta station. I use it as a model for some of my fictional subway stations.


----------



## Bogdy

@HARTride

If the Magenta station had had that glass floor from 0.46s on a wide part from the lobby's floor the station would be more fictional  Anyway it is one of the most fictional stations. It's enough


----------



## Minato ku

Val de Fontenay.





In this video, we can see MI79, MI09 and Z 22500 (MI2N Éole).


----------



## Minato ku

Gare du Nord.
Strike on the RER B, the interconnection between the RATP and SNCF is suspended.
The northern part (SNCF: Gare du Nord - CDG airport/Mitry Claye) depart from the surface suburban platform. We can see a Z50000 next to a MI79

















Gare du Nord, last stop. To go further in the south, passengers should take the RATP RER B on the underground platforms (the usual platforms of the RER B when service is normal).


----------



## Minato ku

Choisy le Roi


----------



## Minato ku

Extension, schematic drawing of the the three new stations.

Porte Maillot









La Défense









Nanterre la Folie


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Sounds like a good plan.


----------



## Minato ku

Minato ku said:


> MI84
> Interlaken is a small town in Switzerland.
> I don't know why there is the coat of arms of Interlaken on this MI84.


I have the answer of this mystery thanks to NicolasG, a member of Symbioz forum.
In August 1988, this MI84 was sent to Interlaken, to be a representative of the french railway industries for the 75th Anniversary of the Bern-Lötschberg-Simplon railway.


----------



## Ledindondelafarce

According to a recent RATP study, more than 96% of RER A passengers are satisfied or very satisfied with new MI09 rolling stock. 95% even seem to be satisfied with the new STIF/RATP-grey/blue design and the Darth Vader-shaped face.

http://www.ratp.fr/fr/upload/docs/application/pdf/2012-06/cp-ca-ratp-29-juin-2012.pdf


----------



## Minato ku

Pereire Levallois








Track going to Pont Cardinet and Saint Lazare, not anymore on use.
Before 1985, it was used by the Auteuil line (Saint Lazare - Auteuil) and between 1988 and 1996 by a shuttle line between Pereire Levallois and Pont Cardinet.


----------



## Minato ku

Val d'Europe


----------



## manrush

They look pretty cool amongst the old stations.


----------



## Minato ku

^^ The station opened in 2001, it is not what I would call old.


----------



## HARTride 2012

Neat video find of the "visionary" RER system.

For some reason, the video is called "Paris Metro" even though it is depicting the RER and not the Metro.






*Note: When I say "visionary", I am referring to the conceptual plan to expand that RER, which will not be happening (with the exception of the E extension through La Defense).


----------



## Minato ku

Wuppeltje said:


> Thanks!
> Well how about the RER? If we are talking about buildings?


The Halles of Paris were demolished.
The Transatlantique HQ in Opera district was demolished to built the Auber RER station.


















During the construction of the RER E, 98 buildings were damaged.


----------



## IGH

Regarding what has been demolished because of the building of RER, an indirect demolition is also the Bastille Station, that used to be the terminus of the Vincennes Surburban railways before the line was integrated to RER A (current branch from Vincennes to Boissy St Leger).

Here is a link of a picture of the former Bastille Station (where is now located the Opera Bastille) : http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=370602419650721&set=a.370602379650725.86806.369320076445622&type=3&theater


----------



## Minato ku

But unlike Les Halles, the RER A could be built without demolishing Bastille station.
Infact the station was still here in mid 1980's. It was demolished because it was useless.
Without the demolition of Les Halles, the construction of Chatelet les Halles would have been more complicated or even impossible.

______________________________________








Port-Royal


----------



## Axelferis

RER B refurbished cars between le blanc mesnil & châtelet

i love it i used it last month when i worked in paris:


----------



## Minato ku

Drancy
The station has been recently renovated.


----------



## Minato ku

Trains between Saint-Nom-la-Bretèche and L'Étang-la-Ville stations in Marly forest.




Two Z6400 near la Defense


----------



## Minato ku

Épinay Villetaneuse


----------



## Minato ku

*Tangentielle Nord line*









-Phase 1: Épinay - Le Bourget.
11 km 
7 stations
Opening in 2014
-Phase 2: West Sartrouville - Epinay and East Le Bourget - Noisy le Sec
17 km
7 other stations
Start of the work in the end of the 2013
Opening by 2018

www.tangentiellenord.f

Work at Épinay Villetaneuse.


----------



## Attus

^^ Will this line be signed as RER? Or the trade mark RER is reserved for trains that cross the city?


----------



## Sacré Coeur

This line won't be part of the RER network. But I am not sure it will be called "Tangentielle Nord" though when it is in service.

Minato, do you how this line will be called once it is in service?


----------



## Nephasto

But the trains will come from the RER E branches and go to the RER A branches?
Or is it going to be completelly separated from the current RER network?


----------



## dale88

The trains will be separated from the current RER network and they are no through running from/to the rer A and E lines. 

It is simply a new line. 

As for the A and E lines, the plan is to link the A and E lines west of Saint Lazare train station, in the western suburbs.


----------



## Minato ku

Sacré Coeur said:


> This line won't be part of the RER network. But I am not sure it will be called "Tangentielle Nord" though when it is in service.
> Minato, do you how this line will be called once it is in service?


Absolutly no idea.


dale88 said:


> The trains will be separated from the current RER network and they are no through running from/to the rer A and E lines.


Hopefully this line will use a light rolling stock while the RER A and E use heavy double decker trains.
This is simply not compatible.

A google map view of Épinay-Villetaneuse.
This station will provide a transfer between the Transilien H and the Tangentielle Nord (in blue in the map).
There will be a train every 5 minutes in Tangentielle Nord and the Transilien H has a trains every 3 minutes to Gare du Nord in rush hours.












dale88 said:


> As for the A and E lines, the plan is to link the A and E lines west of Saint Lazare train station, in the western suburbs.


Between Nanterre and Poissy but the RER A and RER E will not use the same tracks.


----------



## Minato ku

Various pics of the MI09


----------



## Minato ku

Rosa Parks
A new station located in the northeastern side of the inner city, it should open in december 2015.


----------



## FabriFlorence

^^ Where will be located Rosa Parks station exactly? Are there connections with metro stations?


----------



## Minato ku

It is near Porte d'Aubervilliers at the limit of the 18/19th arrondissements and not far of Aubervilliers.
https://maps.google.fr/maps?saddr=Rue+de+Crim%C3%A9e&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=48.89164,2.386394&spn=0.024125,0.066047&sll=48.891979,2.380257&sspn=0.048249,0.132093&geocode=FU4V6gIdCjEkAA&t=h&mra=mr&z=15
There is no metro station here, the closest metro station is Crimée on line 7 600m from here.
Anyway the T3b tram line will have a station here (opening in December 2012).

The former industrial district in the northern side of the station is under in redevelopment.
Million m² of housing, office, commercial space are in construction or planned near to this station.
68,000 passengers per day are planned in this new station.








Rosa Park station is the big red dot in this picture)

A bigger render of Rosa park station on line E.


----------



## Minato ku

Juvisy
A major station of the southeastern outer suburb.








Line C platforms


























Line D platforms



































Z2N of the line D to Central Paris








There is also some Z 5300 on the RER D doing some suburb to outer suburbs service.
These trains are about to be withdrawn.


----------



## IanCleverly

Train ride between Paris-Montparnasse and Rambouillet on Line 'N' of the Transilien network







I could watch rides like these all day.


----------



## Minato ku

New livery of the Z2N


----------



## dale88

Got to say that the new paint scheme "carmillon" doesn't suit the Z20500, especially with more Grey colour because the STIF required it....

The old classic RER livery (Red-White and blue) was the best I think.


----------



## HARTride 2012

I actually love the new livery. Yes, there is a bit too much gray, but I am no longer surprised if a renovated train has gray on it.


----------



## Minato ku

^^ I quite agree with dale88, the new SNCF lively don't fit with the Z2N.
_____________________________________________








Bourg-la-Reine


----------



## HARTride 2012

The livery could be much worse though....


----------



## Nephasto

Minato ku said:


> New livery of the Z2N


I noticed in second 0:47 that there is a sign not to use the bathroom when the train is stoped at stations.
Do this trains still have those old toilets that are just a hole to the rail line?


----------



## LICA-98




----------



## Minato ku

Nephasto said:


> I noticed in second 0:47 that there is a sign not to use the bathroom when the train is stoped at stations.
> Do this trains still have those old toilets that are just a hole to the rail line?


I don't know, I have never used the toilet on suburban train.

________________________________________








Pont Cardinet


















Pont Cardinet traffic timelapse x25


----------



## Minato ku

Châtelet-Les-Halles
MI79 of the RER B southbound








RER D northbound, RER B northbound and RER A westbound platforms








Z2N of the RER D, some RER D comming from or going the south service have Châtelet-les-Halles as terminal station because of the congestion on the tunnel between Châtelet and Gare du Nord. The line B and D use the smae track on this tunnel, a new one is planned.

















MI79 of the RER B northbound arriving...








...the second part of train is refurbished.








MI79 (RER B) southbound and MI09 (RER A) eastbound leaving the station


----------



## AndreiB

How are the rehabilitation works of the RER B going? Are the non stop CDG-Gare du Nord trains still in operation during the duration of the works?


----------



## Minato ku

It depends the moment of the work. For the moment, the traffic is normal with express and local services.
During the last August, every trains stopped at every stations.

Anyway by September 2013, the non stop services to CDG will be suppressed.
This is one of the major points of the renovation of the northern RER B. 
In the future every train will stop at every station in northern suburb to increase the frequencies.

The traffic of the RER B increased by 30% the last decade and the current traffic configuration is no longer possible.
Most of the time we have empty non trains to CDG airport and crowded local trains.


----------



## AndreiB

I'm sorry to hear that. I realise the vast majority of traffic is not CDG related but the northern stretch of the RER B feels extremely unsafe at night. (which is when I arrive in Paris most often). Express trains were a great way of mitigating that perceived risk. I hope Ratp takes steps to mitigate that in the later hours of the night. Surely transport police patrolling certain trains on parts of the line can't be that expensive in the grand scheme of things.

Would a CDG-La Defense direct non stop train work in your opinion?


----------



## Minato ku

The northern side of the RER B is operated by the SNCF.

The CDG Express is in planned to remplace the express service of the RER B.
It will be more costly and will terminate in a central terminal instead of taking the track of the RER B in Central Paris.
The bad thing is that it will not open before 2017.












AndreiB said:


> Would a CDG-La Defense direct non stop train work in your opinion?


In my opinion, it would be more costly to built than useful. We would have to build new track in a densely built area for not many passengers.
The center of Paris still a much important business place than La Defense.
Central Paris has an easy link to the whole metropolitan area while La Defense is more west based.
So, I don't believe that a direct link between CDG and la Defense would be successful.

There is a line in project between la Defense and CDG but is not an express aiport line.
It is an heavy metro line with a dozen of stop between la Defense and CDG and it will make a sort of ring around inner Paris.









It is not a real circular line, it will work like the Oedo line in Tokyo between CDG (Mesnil-Amelot) and Le Bourget passing by La Defense, Villejuif...etc the line will serve two time Le Bourget.


----------



## AndreiB

A dedicated service would work. I presume it would be similar to the Heathrow Express which is a very nice service in my opinion. How come they chose Gare de l'Est instead of Gare du Nord? Is it because of a lack of capacity at Nord?


----------



## Minato ku

^^ Exactly, Gare de l'Est still has plenty of capacity since its lost much its suburban traffic to the RER E.
Gare du Nord and Gare de l'Est will be connected with a pedestrian tunnel, especially Gare de l'Est with the RER E station Magenta.
The RER E provides a link to the CBD (Haussmann Saint Lazare) and will serve La Défense by 2020.


----------



## Minato ku

Boulainvilliers


----------



## parcdesprinces

Minato ku said:


> Bou*l*ainvilliers


Fixed! 

BTW, I remember (as if it was yesterday) when this station was 'abandoned' and of course open air/uncovered. :yes:


----------



## Bogdy

and why was abandoned? or it was there from the beginning? Boulainvilliers was opened in 1988, while the line was there from 1900.


----------



## Minato ku

I do not know why and when the station was closed, I believe it was because of the insufficient traffic.

This station reopened in 1988 as part of the VMI project of the RER C.
(VMI) Vallée de Montmorency - Invalides line.
This line was created by merging and modernizing old lines to link the northwestern suburbs to Central Paris.

Some picture of Boulainvilliers before the reopening
1984








Picture by Smiley.toerist

1986 during the work.








Picture by Smiley.toerist


----------



## Bogdy

Thank you for sharing this pics. Actually the entire RER section between Boulainvilliers and Pont Cardinet, was built on the former Vallée de Montmorency - Invalides railway. They just covered the trenches, hence the wide streets above RER.
Here is the the path of RER between Boulainvilliers and Pont Cardinet.
https://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&so...189&vpsrc=0&t=h&hl=en&mra=ls&via=1,2,3&num=10


----------



## Minato ku

^^ The VMI (Vallée de Montmorency - Invalides) did not exist before its opening in 1988. It was planned in the 1970's.
This line is the merging of the several part of old lines.
Most notably
-Auteuil line (Petite Ceinture): between Avenue Henri Martin and Pereire Levallois)
-Petite Ceinture: between Pereire Levallois and Porte de Clichy (Porte de Clichy is build on new infrastructure and not on the former PC).
-Docks line or La Plaine - Ermont-Eaubonne line: between Saint Ouen and Ermont Eaubonne (Saint Ouen is also build on new infrastructure).

Boulainvilliers station opened in 1900 with a railway link between the Auteuil line and Invalides line called "raccordement de Boulainvilliers" to serve the Exposition Universelle of 1900.
This railway was closed in 1937 and it reopened in 1988 with the RER C.



Bogdy said:


> Here is the the path of RER between Boulainvilliers and Pont Cardinet.
> https://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&so...189&vpsrc=0&t=h&hl=en&mra=ls&via=1,2,3&num=10


This is not the path of RER, it is more like the former Auteuil line.
The RER don't serve Pont Cardinet. The track between Pont Cardinet and Pereire Levallois is not in use since 1996 when the railway shuttle between both stations closed.


----------



## Minato ku

Bécon-les-Bruyères


----------



## Minato ku

Ermont-Eaubonne
Ermont-Eaubonne is major commuter station in the northwestern outer suburbs.
The station provides an interchange between.
-RER C, VMI branch
-Transilien H, Gare du Nord - Persan-Beaumont
-Transilien H, Gare du Nord - Pontoise
-Transilien J, Saint-Lazare - Ermont-Eaubonne

















Platforms of the Transilien J to Saint-Lazare terminal with a VB2N stock.
Ermont-Eaubonne is the last station of the line Saint-Lazare - Ermont-Eaubonne. This line was created in 2006 to suppress the branch to Argenteuil of the RER C








I am standing on the RER C (northbound) platform, a Z 50000 of the Transilien H is visible.


























A Z2N of the RER C bound to Pontoise arriving








Two RER C train








A Z 6100 of the Transilien H leaving the station to the north and a RIB bound to Gare du Nord.








RIB and Z2N are leaving the station








Z 6100 and Z 50000

















Z 50000 and Z2N arriving at the same time








..but the Z 500000 left the station first. For an obvious reason the RER C and Transilien H (to Pontoise) share track north of Ermont-Eaubonne.


----------



## Minato ku

Nation
MI84








MI2N








MI2N and MI09








Two MI09








MS61


----------



## Minato ku

Magenta


----------



## Minato ku

JloKyM said:


> Honestly I don't care about the old Z5300 because I rarely use them. But that's not the case with the V2BN and it's cool they have been refurbished in the 2000s, but honestly they suck now. As for the air conditioner... well it depends. In the last couple of days I'm not the only one to suffer from the heat in the train. That's why I asked whether news train sets are expected. :cheers:


Speaking of the Transilien N, with the summer timetable it seems that there is no Z 5300 in operation.
All the services seem to be done by VB 2N.








Paris Montparnasse








The VB 2N with a C(number) are from Transilien H to replace the old Z 5300.
Those cars are pulled or pushed by BB 7600 electric locomotives.

















The VB 2N with a 7(letter) are pulled or pushed by BB 27300 electric locomotives.


----------



## city_thing

Those last two stations are really fantastic. I love the polished concrete in the last one.

Tres magnifique!


----------



## Minato ku

Invalides
Three liveries next to each others.

Red and Blue, Blue Transilien and STIF/Carmillon SNCF.








Blue Transilien and STIF/Carmillon SNCF








The new STIF/Carmillon SNCF livery (same as the Z 50000)


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Neat!


----------



## Minato ku

Minato ku said:


> Speaking of the Transilien N, with the summer timetable it seems that there is no Z 5300 in operation.
> All the services seem to be done by VB 2N.


Rectification, I saw a Z 5300 today.


----------



## Augusto

Too bad if this line become 100% double decked. 
The 4 carriages single decked Z5300 are much safer than the VB2N for the late evening services. 
This network miss single decked modern short trains to replace the Z5300 for the off-peak services. Those trains could be used for the Sèvres-Montparnasse shuttles during the peak hours or on other less used peak services.


----------



## _Night City Dream_

What do you mean by "much safer"?


----------



## Silly_Walks

_Night City Dream_ said:


> What do you mean by "much safer"?


I guess he's talking about social safety.

Certain single deck trains are made so you can look from one end of the train all the way to the other. Not a lot of places to do illicit things.


----------



## Augusto

Yes. Passengers are safer when they all are in the same 2 carriages. It's why, on some trains of the line U, 2 carriages on 4 are locked for the last services. 
It's also much easier for the security staff to monitor those trains. 
Considering the security issues that we have in France those days and the lack of staff in the stationand trains it would be totaly stupid to use 7 or 8 carriages double decked trains at night in those kind of suburbs.


----------



## Ledindondelafarce

These carriages are closed so passengers can *feel* safer. Barely nothing ever happens in suburban trains.


----------



## Minato ku

N network mostly serves wealthy and upper middle class suburbs, it is not the RER D.
You can feel unsafe when you are alone in the train but it is the same as everywhere.


----------



## Minato ku

Z 22500 (MI2N Eole) and Z 50000 at Gare de l'Est








Z 20500 and Z 50000.








We can notice how big is the Z 50000.


----------



## Augusto

Minato ku said:


> N network mostly serves wealthy and upper middle class suburbs, it is not the RER D.
> You can feel unsafe when you are alone in the train but it is the same as everywhere.


N network indeed serves wealthy suburbs but also some rough areas just like the very poor housing projects put in the middle of nowhere of Coignières, Bois de l'Etang (la Verrière) and les Merisiers (Trappes). And, for having used the last trains of this line many times I can tell you that it's not a relaxing experience. I'm not paranoid and I don't like to focus on crime but it's a fact that violence does take place on those trains. 
http://m.mytf1news.fr/app.php/article/4718930


----------



## Minato ku

Massy-Palaiseau








Catenary observation car made with a car of MS61.


----------



## Minato ku

Pontoise
This train station is located in the northwestern outer suburb of Pontoise at 30km of Central Paris.

On the left a Z 20500 of the RER C and on the right a Z 50000 of the Transilien H








On the left a Z 20500 of the RER C and on the right a V2BN of the Transilien J

















Train leaving the station bound to Gare du Nord 








Toward the six tracks railway bridge above the Oise river built in 1999


















The station is also served by RIB of the Transilien J and Transilien H (for the line between Pontoise and Creil, The station is also served by RIB of the Transilien J and Transilien H (for the line between Pontoise and Creil, it is the only service of the H that doesn't go at gare du Nord).


----------



## Abbendymion

Minato ku said:


> Massy-Palaiseau


Are the RER C tracks so far from this for not to be included in the same station?


----------



## 437.001

Abbendymion said:


> Are the RER C tracks so far from this for not to be included in the same station?


I don´t think so, I´d say it´s more a matter of lack of space.


----------



## Minato ku

Abbendymion said:


> Are the RER C tracks so far from this for not to be included in the same station?


Massy Palaiseau is made of two stations (three if we count the underground TGV station),
the RER B of the RATP and the RER C of the SNCF.
There is over 100m between the two stations but both are linked by a skywalk building.

Between the two stations, there are the maintenance facilities of the RER B and a freight yard of the SNCF.










Infact as you see in the previous picture there is a cross platform interchange at Massy - Verrieres station between the RER B and the branch Massy Palaiseau by Pont de Rungis - Aéroport d'Orly of the RER C but the frequency of the RER C here is very low (2tph). 
Most of the trains of this branch terminate at Pont de Rungis - Aéroport d'Orly and don't reach Massy.

A map of the RER C to understand better. (RER C = :nuts


----------



## Minato ku

Saint-Cloud
The station is also served by the Transilien U, La Défense - La Verrière.




































There is a very nice view over Paris from footbridge
over the platforms.
Saint-Cloud is located on a hill


----------



## Minato ku

Cergy-Saint-Christophe








I didn't have the time to wait for a RER A train, so you will only see Z 6400 of the L.


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Neat station!


----------



## Minato ku

Pierrefitte - Stains

North branch of the RER D along the main track of Gare du Nord.


























A Thalys high speed train


----------



## Minato ku

Cergy-Préfecture


----------



## desi1

Some very very interesting pictures Minato!
As usual you don't disappoint. kay:


----------



## Minato ku

Avenue Foch

A station of the former Auteuil line now part of the VMI branch of the RER C.
Formerly in trench, it has been covered during the construction work for VMI (Vallée de Montmorency - Invalides) branch in the 1980's.


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Not a bad station


----------



## caiocco

I'm always impressed with RER, it's a really interesting rapid transit system. Very nice photos, indeed.


----------



## Minato ku

Pont Cardinet

A very frustrating station, you see a LOT of trains but only a small minority stop here.


----------



## VincentB_

Abbendymion said:


> Are the RER C tracks so far from this for not to be included in the same station?


Well in fact it's a matter of history - and it's a bit complicated.

The RER B station was part of the former "ligne de sceaux" (now the southern branch of the RER B) and built by the Paris-Orléans Railway : it used a broad gauge sytem until the end of the 19th century.

The RER C station was part of the "Grande ceinture" line (a circular line) and was built with the standard gauge.

Then there was two operators. Each has his own tracks and installations... and this situation has not really changed since.

There was a project to replace those installations and to built a large single station in the beginning of the 20th century, it was never done because of WW I.


----------



## OzFrog

Just curious to know if there are any photos out there of RER lines/stations under construction, particularly some of the A and B lines being built... Would be fascinating to check out the original Chatelet Les Halles project!


----------



## desi1

^^^^

Does being french help with aussie women? just curious


----------



## VincentB_

OzFrog said:


> Just curious to know if there are any photos out there of RER lines/stations under construction, particularly some of the A and B lines being built... Would be fascinating to check out the original Chatelet Les Halles project!


For the construction of the RER B, only a (relatively !) short central section was needed ; only one new station was built : Saint Michel, located under the station of the line C that bears the same name, and this station is relatively small and narrow.

But the RER A... it was really impressive ; many totally new stations were built and they were (are !) huge. I remember very well, when i was a kid, the size of the hole near Châtelet !

I have a lot of pictures in my books, taken during the works, but my scanner is down... However, I found this with Google :

http://www.paristribune.info/Dernie...ur-le-pole-RER-Chatelet-Les-Halles_a2589.html

The church on the the left is Saint Eustache. Not very well known by the foreigners but it's one of the most beautiful monuments in Paris. It was very hard to see the church from this angle before the construction of the station because of the height of the buildings that stood here before.


----------



## Minato ku

VincentB_ said:


> For the construction of the RER B, only a (relatively !) short central section was needed ; only one new station was built : Saint Michel, located under the station of the line C that bears the same name, and this station is relatively small and narrow.


I add that Saint-Michel Notre-Dame station of the RER B opened ten years (1988) after the extension of the Sceaux line to Chatelet-les-Halles, extension that was the birth of the RER B in november 1977. 
Back then the old Z 23000 of the Sceaux line (used for the RER B until 1987) could not climb the slope to Chatelet if they stopped at Saint-Michel Notre-Dame. It was decided to open the station latter after the withdrawal of this stock.

For the RER B there is also Gare du Nord which opened in 1981 and 1982.









Picture by Smiley.toerist


----------



## VincentB_

Minato ku said:


> For the RER B there is also Gare du Nord which opened in 1981 and 1982.


You're right, i forgot this one 

Another major (and costly) task was the complete rebuilding of the former terminus of the ligne de Sceaux (Luxembourg) ; it was decided in the first stage of the project to close this station because it was considered too close from the river Seine : by boring a tunnel from the existing station, the inclination of the tunnel would have been excessive. Due to protests from people living in the area, the idea was dropped, however.


----------



## OzFrog

VincentB_ said:


> I have a lot of pictures in my books, taken during the works, but my scanner is down... However, I found this with Google :
> 
> http://www.paristribune.info/Dernie...ur-le-pole-RER-Chatelet-Les-Halles_a2589.html
> 
> The church on the the left is Saint Eustache. Not very well known by the foreigners but it's one of the most beautiful monuments in Paris. It was very hard to see the church from this angle before the construction of the station because of the height of the buildings that stood here before.


Oh. My. God....

I knew Chatelet was a massive project, but F**K! That is insane!

Thank you for finding that pic for us! That's the kind of photo I'm looking for.

I'd also be intrigued for any photos showing RER construction around La Defense.


----------



## Minato ku

The construction of la Défense RER station in 1966.









Picture from the site vision80ch13.org


----------



## VincentB_

Here's another picture from Châtelet (my scanner is working again - found a power supply at the local dump :smug :
http://imageshack.com/a/img191/8229/ny7s.jpg
(source : RATP)


----------



## Minato ku

Houilles - Carrières-sur-Seine

Nonstop V2BN of the J.








MI09 RER A.


----------



## OzFrog

Minato ku said:


> The construction of la Défense RER station in 1966.
> 
> 
> Picture from the site vision80ch13.org


That is impressive. Thanks Minato! Question - is that the view looking north?


----------



## OzFrog

VincentB_ said:


> Here's another picture from Châtelet (my scanner is working again - found a power supply at the local dump :smug :
> http://imageshack.com/a/img191/8229/ny7s.jpg
> (source : RATP)


I *love* the engineering involved with keeping the footpaths operational around that site! That must have cost a fortune.

Whereabouts on the site would that particular part be locaed?


----------



## Minato ku

Rosny-Bois-Perrier
In the future, this station will become a big interchange with the extension of metro line 11 and the new metro line 15.


----------



## 437.001

Minato ku said:


> *Nanterre Université*
> Construction works, Z 50000, Z 6400 and MS 61.


What exactly are they doing at Nanterre-Université, new platforms for the Cergy and Poissy branches? :?


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Yes, new platforms, new passenger hall, etc.


----------



## Minato ku

A new passengers hall above the platforms with a new plaza and streets.
The whole area around the station is under in redevelopment.
The station was built over 40 years ago to be provisional and was undersized for the current and increasing traffic.


----------



## Pierre50

Another objective of the renovation / construction of this station is to link both RER and Suburban lins with the neighboring university which is also growing very quickly.
The present transfer from Line L from Paris St Lazare (where the new Francilien Z 50000 are now visible) to RER A line and vice versa is also a head ache. The new construction will also resolve this issue. 
More information visible on various web sites in French.


----------



## Minato ku

Avenue du Président Kennedy - Maison de Radio France

Like Passy on metro line 6 (also in the same area), the station is underground and above the ground.


----------



## gambarini

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xz...la-vallee-chessy-sur-la-ligne-a-du-rer_webcam

even on dailymotion there are some good videos...

MI09 departure from Marnee La Vallee.

edit
oops
the same on youtbe


----------



## HARTride 2012

May someone please clarify what I'm seeing on Symbioz? There is now a mention that the plan to bring some MI 84 to the south has been scrapped?


----------



## Minato ku

I don't know but I am not surprised if it is true, from the beginning we knew that it would be very dificult to do.


----------



## 437.001

Minato ku said:


> I don't know but I am not surprised if it is true, from the beginning we knew that it would be very dificult to do.


Why would it be difficult? :?


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## HARTride 2012

^^
The plan was to bring some MI *84* to a southern portion and a northern portion of the RER Line D, which is operated by SNCF. The MI _*84*_ is operated by the RATP. That along brought along interoperability concerns.


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## 437.001

MI 84, I guess... :?


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## HARTride 2012

Whoops! I did mean to say MI 84, great catch! Thanks!


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## chornedsnorkack

Harrys said:


> *Le RER C s'habille en Versailles*
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
> http://paris-ile-de-france.france3....e-rer-c-s-habille-en-versailles-73934498.html


Look at the contrast between the seats painted on the walls, and the seats actually installed.

Has France ever had a real royal train?


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## Minato ku

This filming is temporary before the refurbishment.
The seat are the average seat on unrefurbished Z 8800, they didn't change those.

I don't know if France had a royal train, the monarchy ended at the start of the large scale train development.


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## chornedsnorkack

Minato ku said:


> I don't know if France had a royal train, the monarchy ended at the start of the large scale train development.


First RER line, Paris-St. Germain-Le Pecq was opened in 1837. The two lines Paris-Versailles were opened 1839 and 1840.
So did Louis-Philippe get a royal train before 1848?
(And how about Imperial train? Monarchy lasted till 1870.)


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## VincentB_

There was no royal Train in France. However, there was an _imperial_ train, built for Napoléon III. One of the cars still exists today :

http://www.citedutrain.com/fr/collections/voiture-salon-aides-camp-ndeg6-train-imperial

And between 1913 and the eighties, there was a special presidential car that could be added to a train (if you want to read a funny story about a french President in a train : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Deschanel - you can use Google translate).

About the decision to use some Mi 84 between Juvisy et Melun , no date has been given and it would be only temporary. But as it would be a simple shuttle service, then i think it's possible.


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## chornedsnorkack

Ah, so Louis-Philippe did not bother getting his own train...

What do the original cars of RER C look like? The ones that did not burn with Dumont d´Urville?


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## Minato ku

Almost the same same.









Picture by Eole99, Wikipedia


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## VincentB_

Back from Paris...

Castle of Saint Germain en Laye (end of a 6 hours hike between Maisons- Laffitte and St Germain) :

Uploaded with ImageShack.com

For those who think that such a picture has nothing to do here... they're wrong :lol: . If fact, we are standing just above the RER A station. 

When the Line from Paris to Saint Germain was built in the 19th century, a part of the gardens of the castle were destroyed. When the line was modernized and incorporated in the RER, the trench was covered and the gardens were restored to their original state.

The entry of the (now underground) station is on our right :
Uploaded with ImageShack.com

On the left, the beginning of the tunnel :
Uploaded with ImageShack.com

The station itself :
Uploaded with ImageShack.com

One of the main characteristics of St Germain is that it's located on top of a hill. In the park, a 2km long promenade was built, which offers a wonderful view to Paris (Paris is on the right) :
Uploaded with ImageShack.com

But i think you will be more interested by a view to the bridge of St Germain ! This one was taken from the promenade :
Uploaded with ImageShack.com


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## gambarini

great video aboUT THE Z5000


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## HARTride 2012

From Symbioz.







hno:


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## Minato ku

It was Monday at Robinson station.
Probably arson.


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## HARTride 2012

^^
Oh my! Who'd want to set fire to a commuter train?


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## Minato ku

^^ There is a suspicion on a group of thugs seen in the station at the same time but nothing is sure, even the criminal nature of fire is unsure for the moment.
__________________________















Viroflay-Rive-Gauche

Z 5600 (put in service in 1984) of the RER C with the new SNCF livery.

















VB2N of the Transilien N

















Non stopping VB2N of the Transilien N bound to Montparnasse.








Z 20500 (put in service in 1989) of the RER C in the front








Behind a Z 8800 (put in service in 1987)








Intercity train passing thru the station bound to Montparnasse.

















VB2N of the Transilien N


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## gambarini

Photos from ateliers des Ardoines du

















http://www.gauthiernicolas.fr/?p=2788


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## HARTride 2012

^^
Neat!


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## 437.001

HARTride 2012 said:


> ^^
> Oh my! Who'd want to set fire to a commuter train?


Idiots. I´ve seen that too in the Barcelona commuter trains (and I was on the train). 
They did it just for the fun and the hee-hee-hee. And they weren´t caught. :no:


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## Jim856796

Can anyone estimate how deep an RER station within Paris proper is compared to a Paris Metro Station?


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## Canadian Lover

Thanks for photos. I am flying to Amsterdam in a few days with a day trip to Paris. There I will get my own photos. It will be the largest metro network I have ever ridden on and I have been a metro fan all my life. I am going to have an awesome trip.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Minato ku

Jim856796 said:


> Can anyone estimate how deep an RER station within Paris proper is compared to a Paris Metro Station?


This is a hard question because underground RER stations are in many different levels.
RER A and RER E Central Paris underground stations are deep, RER C underground station are close the the ground.
RER D underground stations are less deep than most of the RER A stations (expect at Chatelet were every RER lines are in the same level) but deeper than the stations of the line C.
RER B is a mixed case. 

:nuts:

The oldest underground RER station was built in 1895 and the newest in 1999.


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## chornedsnorkack

Minato ku said:


> Exactly like the second class.


Well, the 1837 first class interiors were certainly different from 1837 second class.
When did RER last have first class with actually different interior than second class?


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## Minato ku

Before the second world war, there were a big difference of comfort between first and second class.
After the second world war, for the RATP network the sole difference was the color of the seats and I think that this difference of seat color has disappeared during the 1980's.
For the SNCF network, I don't know, I don't think there were a difference.


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## Minato ku

Cab ride: Mitry-Claye to Robinson


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## MissonaryWF

Has Semi-Express service in RER-B northern section disappeared?
I remember there were a couple of the services in the section, 
but as I look up the timetable I noticed there are only two remained - 
local and direct express to CDG. And does anyone remember the stopping pattern of them?


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## HARTride 2012

I believe Minato mentioned in an earlier post that all RER B trains in the north run only local now.


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## Minato ku

MissonaryWF said:


> Has Semi-Express service in RER-B northern section disappeared?
> I remember there were a couple of the services in the section,


Yes the semi-express service in northern RER B have been suppressed.

The pattern of the northern line B has been simplified a lot.
In off peak, there are local (all stops) and CDG express services.
In rush hours, all trains are local.


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## Sacré Coeur

During the week days, the RER B express trains from Gare du Nord to CDG airport are from 9:57 to 16:39 and from 20:42 to 22:42, every 15 minutes.


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## dimlys1994

Minato, next week Creteil-Pompadour RER station will open the doors. How it will improve the local lives? Not counting interchange with TVM bus


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## VincentB_

Minato ku said:


> Before the second world war, there were a big difference of comfort between first and second class.
> After the second world war, for the RATP network the sole difference was the color of the seats and I think that this difference of seat color has disappeared during the 1980's.
> *For the SNCF network, I don't know, I don't think there were a difference.*


The seats in most of the SNCF trainsets were wider in first class (like in the intercity trains). Because of this, first class cars were four-abreast seating, and second class cars were five-abreast (as an exemple, here are plans of a Z6400 and a two level trailer) :


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## gambarini

MS61







Chatou Croissy


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## chornedsnorkack

VincentB_ said:


> The seats in most of the SNCF trainsets were wider in first class (like in the intercity trains). Because of this, first class cars were four-abreast seating, and second class cars were five-abreast (as an exemple, here are plans of a Z6400 and a two level trailer) :


How long did first class with 4 abreast seating against 5 abreast in second class run on Transilien lines?


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## Minato ku

I think this configuration still exists in old unrefurbished trains.


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## Minato ku

> *Ile-de-France to fund Transilien train order*
> Thursday, 12 December 2013 09:28
> 
> THE BOARD of Ile-de-France transport authority Stif has voted to fund the acquisition of 91 new Bombardier trains for the Paris area Transilien suburban network as part of its €787m 2014 budget, which was announced on December 11.
> 
> Stif plans to order 43 class Z 50000 Francilien single-deck emus, exercising an option from the original contract for 172 trains signed with Bombardier in 2006, and these will be supplied as two batches of 112m and 94m-long trains. The longer trains will be deployed on Line H from Creil to Pontoise (six units) and Line K from Paris to Crépy (18 units) by December 2016, while the shorter trains will be introduced by December 2017 on Line L services from Paris St Lazare to Versailles-Rive-Droit.
> 
> The 112m-long trains will seat 470 passengers, while the 94m-long sets will seat 380.
> 
> The remaining 48 trains will be Régio 2N double-deck emus, which will enter service on Line R from Paris Gare du Lyon to Melun by December 2018. These 110m-long trains will be a development of the class Z 55500 currently being delivered to French National Railways (SNCF) and each set will seat up to 600 passengers.
> 
> The total value of the contract will be around €900m, with the cost of the order split equally between SNCF and Stif.


http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/rolling-stock/ile-de-france-to-fund-transilien-train-order.html


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## HARTride 2012

Interesting find today. The Chicago Transit Authority (CTA) recently completed a reconstruction project along the southernmost portion of its Red Line "El" (metro). They posted a comparison chart of how their reconstructed Red Line segment shapes up against other systems with similar lines/segments.

The CTA compared its Red Line south segment to segments of the Washington DC Metro, Los Angeles Metro, NYC Subway (Line 2), a segment of the London Overground, *and a segment of the RER B*.

http://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/misc_images/rlsc.html


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## dimlys1994

Hi guys, today is the opening of new RER station Cteteil-Pompadour with existing interchange with TVM and 393 BRT lines. Congratulations to all citizens of Ile-de-France!


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## Minato ku

Créteil-Pompadour
The station is pretty simple, a simple evelated box with an island platform.

The TVM and 393 bus stop


























The footbridge connecting the RER station with bus stop


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## dimlys1994

^^Really simple station, but bridge is so thin that it looks like sceleton


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## gambarini

Créteil-Pompadour First Day


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## chornedsnorkack

Minato ku said:


> http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/rolling-stock/ile-de-france-to-fund-transilien-train-order.html


Shall any new Transilien trains have first class seats?


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## HARTride 2012

Highly doubt it, as the split classes on trains are long gone.


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## HARTride 2012

Saw on a posting on Symbioz that the countdown clocks have changed. On LCD displays, the exact time of arrival is no longer displayed. Rather, a minute countdown clock (like the Paris Metro) is displayed for each departure.

http://www.symbioz.net/forum/ouragan/messages.php?topic=5811


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## Minato ku

^^ It was already the case in Gare du Nord RER station.


chornedsnorkack said:


> Shall any new Transilien trains have first class seats?


No.


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## gambarini

Cabride on MI2N from La Defense to Nation


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## Minato ku

Issy - Val de Seine.
Renovation of the entrance building


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## dimlys1994

Today:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...e-bolts-to-blame-for-bretigny-derailment.html
> 
> *Loose bolts to blame for Brétigny derailment*
> 10 Jan 2014
> 
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> FRANCE: On January 10 land transport accident investigation bureau BEA-TT published its interim report on the derailment which had taken place on July 12 2013 at Brétigny-sur-Orge. The last four cars of an SNCF Paris - Limoges inter-city service had left the track when entering the station from the north, killing seven people and injuring a further 32.
> 
> BEA-TT says that the derailment was caused by a fishplate obstructing the flangeway of an oblique crossing forming part of a double slip. Under the weight of the train travelling at 137 km/h, the fishplate had pivoted around the first of four bolts meant to hold it in place, the three others having come loose.
> 
> The most likely cause of the bolts coming loose, says BEA-TT, were stresses caused by cracking in the cast steel crossing. This had caused the head of the third bolt to break off and the others to fail, one becoming unscrewed and the heads of the other two also sheering off.
> 
> BEA-TT makes three recommendations to SNCF which undertakes maintenance on behalf of infrastructure manager RFF. The first is that overall expertise in bolted track joints should be improved, including technical specifications and the quality of components, and that specifications for tightening bolts should be observed during installation and maintenance.
> 
> Secondly, regulations specifying measures to be taken when defects are detected should be clarified and reinforced, setting out the maximum timescale allowed for repairs to be undertaken. The final recommendation says that switches and crossings requiring a higher level of maintenance or early renewal should be identified, and that such requirements are considered in 'reliable and auditable' manner when managing maintenance activities.
> 
> In a joint statement, SNCF and RFF said that the recommendations of the report would be fully implemented, without waiting for the ongoing judicial investigation into the Brétigny accident to reach its conclusion. The recommendations would enable the safety of the railway system to be improved, they said.


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## Pierre50

Full report from BEA TT availalble in FRench here:
http://www.bea-tt.equipement.gouv.fr/bretigny-sur-orge-r198.html

Interesting and very complex analysis of loose bolts creating such a tragedy. 
Progress will come from this accident where unfortunately 7 people loose their lives.


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## Minato ku

A good news, the idea to close a line during several months instead of only during the night and weekend to increase the speed of the renovation is more and more popular.
In the past the STIF (transport organisation authority of Paris region) refused to allow long closure despite the numerous requests of the SNCF and RFF.



> *Jean-Paul Huchon agree to stop the traffic of some suburban lines in order to accelerate the renovation.*
> *Jean-Paul Huchon, President of the Ile-de-France region and of the regional transport union, said he was "ready", Thursday, January 9, 2014, to authorize the full stop of traffic of some commuter trains to accelerate the renovation of lines.*
> 
> "I'm ready, where necessary, to allow the interruption of traffic for the work of improvement be accelerated and completed, "said in his vows Huchon, president of the Syndicat des transports d'Ile-de-France (STIF), transit authority in the region.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Executive Director of SNCF Transilien Bénédicte Tilloy, also defended the "break" in the manner of conducting the work in the Île-de-France, asking to "stop doing work with a spoon," given the magnitude of sites.
> The idea to completely stop a line to achieve faster work rather than perform night and weekend, had already been advanced to the Stif, at a hearing in November 2013 pf Mr Pepy, Ms. Tilloy and Jacques Rapoport, President of RFF (infrastructure manager).


http://www.lagazettedescommunes.com/215140/jean-paul-huchon-daccord-pour-stopper-le-trafic-de-certaines-lignes-de-banlieue-afin-den-accelerer-la-renovation/?utm_source=quotidien&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=10-01-2014-quotidien


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## HARTride 2012

^^
That's good. The Chicago CTA just did this type of closure with its Red Line South (metro), closing the entire segment for five months, instead of spreading the work out across four years as night/weekend only work. Doing a complete closure for those five months have done wonders for this rail line and I strongly think it's the best option to rehab and reconstruct many of Paris' aging rail lines. In many cases, there is also a cost savings to doing the work all at once during a complete closure, instead of spreading the work out longer with night/weekend only work.

With this said, they'd better have some good bus bridge service in place during these closures. The CTA did pretty well with implementing additional bus services during the closure of the Red Line South.


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## Arnorian

An excellent Île-de-France regional transit map:




























Source: Official STIF vianavigo site — PDF download

via http://transitmaps.tumblr.com/


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## HARTride 2012

^^
Wow! Very well made!


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## Minato ku

I don't like this map. 
Especially because of it has some bus lines included, this is very messy.
RATP map is much better.

I noticed an error just here, the J doesn't stop at Nanterre Université, it doesn't pass by Nanterre Université.








This is how it is in reality, the J uses a bridge located before Nanterre Université station.


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## dimlys1994

Published today on Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...lle-airport-rail-link-project-relaunched.html
> 
> *Charles-de-Gaulle Airport rail link project relaunched*
> 24 Jan 2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FRANCE: A dedicated airport rail link between Paris Est and Charles-de-Gaulle Airport could begin operating in 2023 under a €1·7bn-€1·9bn project announced by Transport Minister Frédéric Cuvillier on January 23.
> 
> Speaking at an event in the airport's Terminal 3 organised by Aéroports de Paris, the minister said the project would be led by a 50:50 joint venture which was founded last year by ADP and infrastructure manager RFF. Previous abortive attempts to develop the CDG Express had been led by private sector promoters or envisaged some form of PPP.
> 
> At present the airport is linked to the centre of Paris by a branch of RER Line B, which offers 28 through trains each way per day and a 15 min headway at peak times. Journey time is around 35 min. It is also served by inter-regional TGVs using LGV Interconnexion to bypass the capital. With ADP projecting that traffic through the airport will double from the current 60 million passengers/year over the next decade, another rail link is seen as essential.
> 
> The latest proposal envisages the same 40 km route which was awarded a Declaration of Public Utility in 2008. This would use 32 km of existing tracks and 8 km of new construction. The CDG Express trains would start from Paris Est, and pass through a short tunnelled connection to join the route out of Paris Nord, where they would share the long-distance tracks paralleling RER Line B. A new branch would diverge at Mitry-Mory and run north into the airport alongside the LGV.
> 
> At this stage the government has not decided on an operator for the service, although the ministry says it is not strongly minded to call competitive tenders unless required to do so under European legislation. At present SNCF has exclusive operating rights to run domestic passenger services on the national network, but RATP President Pierre Mongin has proposed that the urban and national operators should form another 50:50 joint venture.
> 
> CDG Express would offer a train every 15 min between 05.00 and midnight, with a journey time of 20 min. A fare of €24 is envisaged, which would be more the €9·75 RER fare but competitive with the average taxi fare of €60. To help recoup the capital cost of the project, Cuvillier envisages that the scheme could be partially funded by a tax on airline tickets.


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## urix99

paris superb transportion, i was warching @national geographic channel mega structure.


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## Stravinsky

I guess that map easily puts to shame every other (non-Asian) city on Earth. good! :lol:


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## Antje

Hi,

I'm in Paris on Wednesday/Thursday, so what part of Line A can I find the MS61 trains?


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## dale88

You will find Ms61 trains on the Saint Germain en Laye to Boissy Saint Léger branches.


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## Minato ku

*La Défense*.
Map, layout and rendering
The new RER station will be built under the CNIT building. 








View of the whole station of La Defense.
RER A platforms, RER E platforms (Gare Eole), suburban rail and T2 platforms (Quais du Transilien et T2) and the metro line 1 platforms (under Coeur transport).













































http://www.agenceduthilleul.fr/portfolio/projets-agence-duthilleul/gare-rer-e-du-cnit-la-defense/


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## dimlys1994

Minato ku said:


> *La Défense*.
> Map, layout and rendering
> The new RER station will be built under the CNIT building.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View of the whole station of La Defense.
> RER A platforms, RER E platforms (Gare Eole), suburban rail and T2 platforms (Quais du Transilien et T2) and the metro line 1 platforms (under Coeur transport).
> 
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> http://www.agenceduthilleul.fr/portfolio/projets-agence-duthilleul/gare-rer-e-du-cnit-la-defense/


Really marelous and beautiful. And looking to the plans there would be inclined lifts. In fact, did anyone know, how many RER and metro stations in Paris with these lifts?


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## HARTride 2012

^^
Beautiful renderings!


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## Antje

Auber

RER MS 61 M15153 at Auber by κύριαsity, on Flickr

Got the first ride on MS 61 M.15153, the Parisian equivalent of the recently withdrawn A Stock in London.


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## Minato ku

Antje said:


> Auber
> 
> RER MS 61 M15153 at Auber by κύριαsity, on Flickr
> 
> Got the first ride on MS 61 M.15153, the Parisian equivalent of the recently withdrawn A Stock in London.


Thank you for the picture.
The withdrawal of the MS 61 stock has begun.
Sad news for many fan.



dimlys1994 said:


> Really marelous and beautiful. And looking to the plans there would be inclined lifts. In fact, did anyone know, how many RER and metro stations in Paris with these lifts?


There are inclined lift at Nation, Châtelet les Halles, Charles de Gaulle Etoile on the RER A, at Saint-Lazare for the metro.





Except for Saint-Lazare, those were built in place of escalators or stairs.


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## Augusto

Minato ku said:


> Thank you for the picture.
> The withdrawal of the MS 61 stock has begun.
> Sad news for many fans


Very sad indeed. 
But afaik some of them will stay until 2017 won't they?


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## Minato ku

*Denfert-Rochereau*
A new terminal platform is under in construction.
This is the enlargement of the unusued platform 3, it was used as garage.

In case of disrupted traffic in the central section, some trains from the south will terminate here.
Denfert Rochereau provides a connection with two metro lines, this is better than nothing for the southern suburban commuters.









http://scope.ratp.fr/travaux-sur-le-quai-n-3-a-denfert-rochereau-ligne-b/


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## Antje

None of my photography in the last six years are as insanely crazy as these videos about the RER:











:wtf:


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## Minato ku

Absolutely wonderful.
You can feel Akihabara and the Otaku subculture in those videos.


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## Minato ku

Clichy - Levallois
The station building has been nicely renovated...








...but not the platforms.
Z 50000 leaving the station and Z 6400 passing through it.

















An other non stop Z 6400


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## Minato ku

A little race between a Z 6400 and a Z 50000.
Start of the race: Bécon-les-Bruyères.


























End of the race: Asnières-sur-Seine
After Asnières-sur-Seine the Z 6400 goes non stop to Saint Lazare while the Z 50000 stops at every stations.


















Both trains are inner suburbs services.
The Z 6400 was a service between Saint-Cloud and Lazare, it serves every stops between Saint-Cloud and Bécon-les-Bruyères, in rush hours some trains also stops at Asnières-sur-Seine.
The Z 50000 was a service between Nanterre-Université and Saint-Lazare, it serves every stops.


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## mrmoopt

The step up on the train is massive (on the left hand side)


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## ajw373

cal_t said:


> The step up on the train is massive (on the left hand side)


Paris has a mix of high and low platforms, hence the difference.


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## VincentB_

Thanks 

And now, the end...

_Bercy_, view from the Pont National :




The location of the former _Bercy_ passenger station, of which nothing remains now :


Boulevard Poniatowski, we are above the tracks that leads to the _Gare de Lyon_ :


The workshop for the TGVs sud-est :


We are now approaching the Porte de Charenton ; before us : the bridge of the Rue de Charenton :


A quick look behind us :


View from the bridge of the Rue de Charenton (look to the bridge of the rue des Meuniers) ; suddenly, i saw something on the left....


...a MappyCar ! Mappy is a french website which provides a service similar to Goggle map that offers a good alternative to streetview :


From the bridge of the rue des Meuniers, _Gare de la rue Claude-Decaen_ :


After a seven hours trip, I decided it was time to rest...




And now, back to the hotel !


:wave:

The _petite ceinture_ is a subject of debates in Paris for decades. In fact nobody really knows what to do with it... It was closed to passenger service in 1934. It was never popular. The metro was much more used.


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## MrAronymous

New RER A entrance will be built at Marne-la-Vallée - Chessy

This is the current situation at Disneyland Paris. Disneyland acquired land between Disney Village, Disneyland Park and Walt Studios Park and installed fences and gates since there have been security checks for a while now and so the guests only have to go through security once and not twice, when hopping from park to park for example. (And also they want to get rid of the Africans selling shit on little cloths).









So to avoid having to go trough Disney security RER travellers will soon have an additional exit. Entrance will be across the Gaumont cinema on the green patch of grass.
















Source: InsideDLParis twitter


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## Minato ku

*Porte Maillot*
Map, layout and rendering
The station will be built in under the big traffic circle of Porte Maillot








Underground infrastructures, the new RER E station is in green.
It be built between a big underground car car and the metro station of the line 1
There are also the RER C and a road street on the extremities








The space is limited underground, so the station will be vertical 


























A large skylight


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## Minato ku

*Rosa Parks*
Opening December 15, 2015

A complicated construction works, the station is built on the busy Gare de l'Est tracks, everythting need to be done without interrupting the railway traffic.
Especially the substructures are built under the big railway backfill.

In my opinion the big green space will not stay empty for long.


























http://www.lemoniteur.fr/147-transport-et-infrastructures/article/actualite/23890688-un-remblai-ferroviaire-converti-en-gare-rer?23890710=23764863#23890710

A 3D Google Earth view of the station location.
The area is being redeveloped


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## Minato ku

*Charles de Gaulle – Étoile*
New screens


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## VincentB_

RER C (VMI section)

Porte de Clichy 3 weeks ago :


The walls are covered with corrugated steel :


----------



## Minato ku

*Charles de Gaulle – Étoile*
Modernization of the Champs-Elysées ticket hall


























I have seen this only today, a week before this hall had its original 1970's cladding.


----------



## VincentB_

Minato ku said:


> *Charles de Gaulle – Étoile*
> Modernization of the Champs-Elysées ticket hall
> 
> [...]
> 
> I have seen this only today, a week before this hall had its original 1970's cladding.


Wow ! That's a good news ! I hope they won't stop, many parts of the RER A are in a very bad shape and most of all, extraordinary dirty... 


Here are some other pics i did shoot some weeks ago in Versailles. Versailles is located west from Paris.

Of course it's most of all known for its castle built by Louis XIV. But the city itself is very beautiful, and is the home of many businesses.

There's no less than 3 main railway stations in Versailles (and two smaller ones, Montreuil and Porchefontaine) :
- Versailles Rive-Gauche, last station of one of the branches of the RER C ;
- Versailles Chantiers (RER C, Transilien U (La Défense) and N (Montparnasse), and Intercity trains from Chartres), a very important station formerly owned by the Chemins de Fer de l'Etat ; it was rebuilt in its current form in the thirties and re-opened in 1937 when the Line from Paris to Chartres was electrified, just before the creation of the SNCF ; this station will be totally refurbished soon... I hope that the main building, that is considered as a major architectural achievement of this period, will be preserved...
- Versailles Rive Droite (Transilien L (St Lazare)).

This third station is probably the less known from tourists, because the two others are supposed to be the most close to the castle...

... but in fact that's not totally true ! Remember that the castle and its park are absolutely huge. Chantiers and Rive Gauche are the most close to the castle main entry, indeed. But Rive droite is the most close to Trianon...

Some pictures of Versailles Rive Droite, after a trip in the Village of the Queen near Trianon.

The building seen from the street :


The platforms :


A Z6400 arrives in the station :


The line from Versailles to St Lazare is the home of the Z6400. Despite their age (they were introduced in 1976), they are very comfortable. They were the last french suburban trains made of stainless steel and the most well designed. One of their main characteristic is the sound of the warning signal just before the closing of the doors, very different from those of the other trains (this vid is not from me !) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLANvcDubP4


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## Minato ku

The Z6400 are also among my favorite Transilien train, my favorite are obviously the Z50000.
Note that the Z50000 have began their service on the Transilien J, Saint-Lazare - Ermont-Eaubonne line.



VincentB_ said:


> Wow ! That's a good news ! I hope they won't stop, many parts of the RER A are in a very bad shape and most of all, extraordinary dirty...


It won't, Chatelet-les-Halles is under heavy renovation works.








*Charles de Gaulle – Étoile*
In my previous post, the screen in the middle was not yet active


















They removed the old screens of the platform
Before








Now


----------



## Alargule

Wow, that's a big difference! Those old monitors were from the age of MiniTel, I suppose? :lol:


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## Minato ku

Those old monitors began to be installed in 1992.


----------



## Minato ku

> *Auber, why are you so dirty?*
> 2014/04/02 Fabrice Pouliquen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What disease has the Auber station? In the 9th arrondissement, the RER A station displays a bad face to the 250,000 passengers who use it every day to get to Opera, the Grands Boulevards stores or one of the many connections it provides.
> 
> *Infiltration problem*
> 
> Brown streaks flowing along the walls and form an unsavory foam in some places. Sometimes it's even on the ceiling that foam appears, forming "stalactites" above travelers.
> A seal is placed on the ground to collect water dripping from the ceiling in the central hall of the station. "The technique is frequently" say the sellers of the station. This is not the only example of tinkering at Auber. Cables also hang from the ceiling and Karima, a saleswoman in a perfumery face access to the RER A, shows a piece of cardboard covering a hole in the wall in front of his shop.
> 
> This decay is partly due to water infiltration, a disease that affects 20% of metro and RER. "Auber station, very close to the water reservoir beneath the Opera, is particularly affected, said Jean-Christophe Archambaud responsible for policy cleaning RATP. The water then flows along the walls causing a lot of limestone crystallizes and dry. "So this brown stuff!
> 
> *An elevator that smells like urine*
> 
> But in Auber, dirt is not limited to these infiltrations. Cleaning is also weak. Gobitz Bernard, vice-president of the Association of transport users (AUT) Île-de-France, even took pictures to alert the STIF (Syndicat des transports d'Île-de-France). "The advertising support along the escalators between line 8 and RER station hall were covered with cups, cans and several inches of dust."
> 
> Rubbish have since disappeared. However, what does not disappear is the strong smell of urine in the elevator making the connection between the concourse and line 3. "It's a shame, say Florence, a passenger. I take the elevator for five years and this odor is still present. You have to pinch the nose during the ride. It is very painful. "
> 
> *"Efforts are being made"*
> 
> RATP says "is aware" of these problems. At Auber as elsewhere. "Major efforts are being made since 2006 to fight against these infiltrations, says Jean-Christophe Archambaud. Forty million will still be invested between 2014 and 2015 to seal 50 stations. "Auber station benefits. New siding, more waterproof, is being installed on the ceiling, along the corridors leading line 9 docks RER.
> 
> Driven by STIF, which strengthened its criteria for assessing the state of the network, the RATP has also deployed a new market for cleaning the subway early October. On paper, this translates to more operators in charge of cleanliness in stations, bins emptied more often or the general cleaning every month of the busiest stations. "Whose Auber", says Jean-Christophe Archambaud. "These deep cleanings are an opportunity to strip surfaces with which travelers are in contact and waxing floors docks."
> 
> But Auber obviously need more. However, the RATP has been conducting operations since late 2012 "Coups de propre" in some of the busiest stations on the network. "In that context, we are updating the painting, we repair the tiles, we install LED lighting ..." explains Jean-Christophe Archambaud. Madeleine station was right there in late December and the Charles de Gaulle station right now. "And Auber? Not on schedule yet. However, the station hosts many tourists come to do their shopping in nearby stores.
> As a first image of Paris, you can find much better.


http://www.20minutes.fr/paris/1340897-station-rer-auber-pourquoi-es-tu-si-sale


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## Minato ku

Saint-Lazare
Z 50000 on J network.

Train bound to Ermont-Eaubonnes


























Train bound to Pontoise


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## Minato ku

Cab Ride: Paris Est - Meaux


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## 437.001

Transilien P Paris Est-Esbly-Meaux-La Ferté Milon and the branch Esbly-Crécy la Chapelle are the only RER and Transilien lines that I´ve used when I´ve been on holiday.


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## Antje

MS 61 again!

RER MS 61 M.15153 Interior by me, on Flickr


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## Minato ku

Châtelet - Les Halles
A new inclined lift


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## Svartmetall

^^ We have those a lot on the Stockholm tunnelbana. They're so darn slow here, though. Much prefer normal, vertical elevators myself.


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## MissonaryWF

I came across graphs about 4 letter codes and stopping pattern of RER-A/B. Great effort!

http://studniufka.piwko.pl/rera.pdf 
http://studniufka.piwko.pl/rerb.pdf


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## iranair777

Hello! 
I'm visiting Paris this June and was wondering what ticketing system you have? we will be three students who would like the lowest fare staying for 4 days. Is there a oyster like system as in London? We have Interrail tickets, can they be used for discounted travel? We will mainly be travelling in the centre of Paris and a one day trip to the palace of Versailles. I've checked the local travel companies website but it's confusing me!


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## alexandru.mircea

The ideal solution for you is the "Paris Visite" ticket. You can buy it at any ticket vending machine. You'll probably need the one for 5 days, which costs 34.7 euro for the zones 1 to 3 and can be used on metro, bus, tram or RER. It will cover you completely and will be great value for money if you move around a bit instead of just hanging in the city centre by foot. If you're on a budget, you can also take the 3 day ticket at 24.1 euro. 

http://www.ratp.fr/en/ratp/r_61654/parisvisite/

For Versailles the best option is to buy sepparate tickets when you go.


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## HARTride 2012

^^
Same here. The Paris Visite is your best bet. I used it when I visited Paris back in 2009.


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## Ledindondelafarce

It depends a lot on where you might want to go and how often. Your interrail pass won't be very useful to travel around Paris.
Also Paris visit is one of the most expensive way of taking public transit in Paris

If you stay during a whole week (like from Wednesday to Sunday, not from Friday to Monday) you might consider buying a Navigo semaine . It's 20,40€ for zones 1-2, 26,40€ for zones 1-3 and 32€ for zones 1-4. It gives you unlimited transit (bus, tram, RER, metro) within these zones for one calendar week. You'd also need to buy "Navigo découverte" at a ticket office for 5€. The choice of zones depends on where you want to go : zones 1-2 cover most of touristic Paris and you can use every Metro line (lines refered as M1, M2, etc...). However La Défense is in zone 3 ( But reachable with a zone 1-2 navigo through the Metro ), Versailles in zone 4, Roissy airport in zone 5. You can still buy "complément de parcours" ( at ticket vending machines), instead of paying a full central Paris - Versailles ticket once you bought your navigo zones 1-2, you only pay what's left to travel from the last RER C station reachable with your pass to Versailles. IMO a navigo 1-2 + compléments de parcours when you want to go farther is the cheapest and best solution, yet a bit more complicated as you need to find an open ticket office - but if you come in through one of the main train station this shouldn't be too hard.

If you're not planning on using a lot the métro (most distances in Paris are walkable, most metro stations are only separated by 500m), you can buy 10 metro tickets for 13,70€. One ticket gives you access to either metro or bus and tram for one hour. You'll need to buy a special ticket to travel farther ( RER and Transilien lines, the ones you'll use to go to Versailles have special origin-destination tickets that you can find easily in every ticket vending machine or office).

However if what you want is simplicity and 10€ don't matter to you, buy Paris-visit tickets.
Hope you have a good time in Paris !


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## alexandru.mircea

^ buying the Navigo card for one week is a bit complicated though for foreign tourists, which is why I don't really recommend it just to save a few euros. You need to buy something from an office, then go to the ticket machine to charge the one week fare, then go back to the office. This might also test your French  (many employees know English but not all). You also need an ID photo of the right size, if yours doesn't fit you'll have to look for a French-only speaking machine to get yourself a photo.


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## Minato ku

Navigo Decouverte card can be purchased in any ticket counter, the agents can charge the card. 
As long the station has a ticket counter (not just an information counter), this is pretty easy and fast. 
You just need to have a small photo ID that you will put on the card.


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## VincentB_

I strongly agree with Minato Ku.

I found a website in english :

http://www.transilien.com/?siteLanguage=en

Speaking about tickets and fares... Here are some items : on the right, my last carte Orange (the pass that predated the Navigo) ; in the middle, my first carte orange (1982 or 1983 i think) ; and on the left... a first class ticket ! The subway in Paris was the only one to have two classes (I recently found this one in an old book inherited from my grand parents, it was probably used as a bookmark...) :





@Minato ku : if you're interested, i saw something astonishing (IMO) on the RER C when i was in Paris three weeks ago.

Sorry i tried to shoot pictures but their quality is too bad...

On all LCD screens on this line, there was a gross mistake in the name of the station "Champ de Mars - Tour Eiffel" : the programmer wrote "tour Effeil" instead of "tour Eiffel" !

I reported this to an employee but it seems that it was not really concerned...


----------



## Robi_damian

Minato ku said:


> http://www.20minutes.fr/paris/1340897-station-rer-auber-pourquoi-es-tu-si-sale


Cleanliness and perception of safety is a huge issue on both the Metro and RER IMO. There are some dodgy stations in London too, but their number pales compared with the ones in Paris. While not as bad as Rome or Brussels, things like the omnipresent urine smell should be tackled with tough action...


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## Augusto

VincentB_ said:


> The subway in Paris was the only one to have two classes


Was it? Even in the early days of the Tube? 
Now the Arabs have restored the first class. In Dubei's metro the Emiratis don't have to travel with all the workers coming from the Indian sub continent (which would be a nightmare for them..). 
It will be the same in Saudi Arabia.


----------



## Stravinsky

Robi_damian said:


> Cleanliness and perception of safety is a huge issue on both the Metro and RER IMO. There are some dodgy stations in London too, but their number pales compared with the ones in Paris. While not as bad as Rome or Brussels, things like the omnipresent urine smell should be tackled with tough action...


It's the overall upkeep of the stations that needs to be taken more seriously in consideration.

As fot the perception of safety, I've never felt threatened, as the Métro is quite crowded.


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## Robi_damian

Stravinsky said:


> As fot the perception of safety, I've never felt threatened, as the Métro is quite crowded.


At night it feels dodgy. In London, staff are very often present at platform level, but in Paris this is not as much the case. Anyway, that is only at very late hours in very remote stations...


----------



## Robi_damian

Augusto said:


> Was it? Even in the early days of the Tube?
> Now the Arabs have restored the first class. In Dubei's metro the Emiratis don't have to travel with all the workers coming from the Indian sub continent (which would be a nightmare for them..).
> It will be the same in Saudi Arabia.


London had them too in the early days. But do note that the London underground started functionally as a mainline railway in all conceptual aspects...


----------



## Stravinsky

Robi_damian said:


> At night it feels dodgy. In London, staff are very often present at platform level, but in Paris this is not as much the case. Anyway, that is only at very late hours in very remote stations...


True. But it's also quite hard to be alone in a station or on a train in (central) Paris.


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## VincentB_

RER C

The banks of the river Seine are probably my favorite place in Paris. 

As the central section of the RER C is very close to the river, you can access some stations directly from there.

Here is an access to the station Saint Michel :








The stairs on the left leads directly to the platform.


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## gambarini

Chatelet - Les Halles


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## Minato ku

^^ The video only shows the RER A.








Auber
Renovation works


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
I hope the station will look much better when its done.


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## gambarini

Sucy-Bonneuil


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## Minato ku

Fontainebleau-Forêt

This station is not really a station, it doesn't appear on map.
This stop located inside the forest of Fontainebleau is served by few trains during the week-ends and holiday.
Other particularly, the stop is for exit only and it is served only by southbound trains (coming from Paris).


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## HARTride 2012

^^
Doesn't look safe to get off at during night time. Does one have to take a hike to return to a nearby street?


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## alexandru.mircea

^ There is no night service though. 

Basically this stop is meant for weekend walkers, who get dropped by the train in the middle of the forest by noon the latest, walk through the forest ending up in Fontainebleau where they pick the train back to Paris from the proper Fontainebleau-Avon station. A very pleasant experience.


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## Minato ku

Gare du Nord
Strike on the SNCF network

The RER B is operated by two companies, the RATP and the SNCF, during strike the line is cut in two.
The northern RER B (SNCF) are arriving and departing from the surface suburban platforms at Gare du Nord.

















































































The southern RER B (operated by the RATP) are arriving and departing from the underground platforms.

















Note that there is no strike in the RATP network, lines are normally operated even if the strike on the northern RER B disrupts the operation on the southern section.


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## HARTride 2012

^^
Which sections of the RER A & B are controlled by SNCF? RATP?


----------



## Minato ku

Dark colors: RATP
Light colors: SNCF


----------



## Woonsocket54

Minato ku said:


>


Spellcheck on strike.


----------



## MrAronymous

Woonsocket54 said:


> Spellcheck on strike.


Aw come on it's kinda cute. At least they tried.


----------



## Nouvellecosse

They should have a comma after strike, but I honestly can't see any spelling error. :hmm:

-edit- oh, platform! lol I totally missed that. :tongue2:


----------



## trainrover

Minato ku said:


> Fontainebleau-Forêt
> 
> This station is not really a station, it doesn't appear on map.
> This stop located inside the forest of Fontainebleau is served by few trains during the week-ends and holiday.
> Other particularly, the stop is for exit only and it is served only by southbound trains (coming from Paris).
> 
> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHVGMW2smjE">YouTube Link</a>


Weird that stinky urban posers haven't brought halts back to trendiness, eh?


----------



## MrAronymous

Nouvellecosse said:


> They should have a comma after strike, but I honestly can't see any spelling error. :hmm:
> 
> -edit- oh, platform! lol I totally missed that. :tongue2:


_the_ is unneccessary
are leaving _from _
_platform_
_every_


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## Stravinsky

^^ Appreciate the effort.


----------



## Woonsocket54

At least whoever defaced that sign spelled "**** you" correctly.


----------



## dimlys1994

While we waiting for another pack of photos, let's see on Chatelet - Les Halle from side of history. This song is performed by Florent Pagny, and it's very good chanson, capturing the moments at this ugly station:


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## Minato ku

dimlys1994 said:


> While we waiting for another pack of photos, let's see on Chatelet - Les Halle from side of history. This song is performed by Florent Pagny, and it's very good chanson, capturing the moments at this ugly station:
> ...


It is in the metro and I don't that it was filmed at Châtelet.
Usually, they shoot movies in Porte des Lilas, we have specific platforms for filmings.
______________________________________








After Charles de Gaulle Etoile, Denfert Rochereau is the second station in Central Paris with IMAGE screens on the platforms.


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## dimlys1994

Minato ku said:


> It is in the metro and I don't that it was filmed at Châtelet.
> Usually, they shoot movies in Porte des Lilas, we have specific platforms for filmings.


Porte des Lilas is Aldwych of Paris Metro for film crews? I didn't knew that!


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## Minato ku

There are unused platforms and tracks at Porte des Lilas


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## Stravinsky

Minato ku said:


> After Charles de Gaulle Etoile, Denfert Rochereau is the second station in Central Paris with IMAGE screens on the platforms.


Used to live nearby. :lovethem:


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## VincentB_

Minato ku said:


> There are unused platforms and tracks at Porte des Lilas


There's a webpage about this station on Wikipedia, with a list of some of the movies filmed there :

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porte_des_Lilas_(métro_de_Paris)#Porte_des_Lilas_-_Cin.C3.A9ma

Some well-known movies were shooted on other locations (that means, in "real" stations), however, like Luc Besson's "Subway". Another example is The french filmmaker Bertrand Tavernier who refused to use what he considered as a "fake station" and who insisted on filming in the real "Filles du Calvaire" station, during the night, when the trafic was interrupted.


Edit : I found good pictures of some of the ghost stations of the metro, all of these pics were unknown to me :
http://fluctuat.premiere.fr/Diaporamas/Les-stations-fantomes-du-metro-parisien-3162398


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## Minato ku

Colombes


----------



## Minato ku

*La Défense*
A large screen will be installated inside the hall of La Défense transit hub.









http://www.defense-92.fr/transports/media-transports-commence-installer-nouvel-ecran-publicitaire-geant










A 700m² Marks and Spencer food store opened last week.


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## Minato ku

Nanterre-La Folie


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## dimlys1994

Minato ku said:


> Nanterre-La Folie


Is it planned to be overground? I thought it would underground


----------



## 437.001

^^
I thought the RIOs had been withdrawn from service...


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## Minato ku

There are still some RIB in service on transilien H (Pontoise - Creil line), transilien K, transilien J and transilien P (rush hour).
Here, the branch Saint-Lazare to Earmont-Eaubonne is served by RIB, VB2N and Z 50000.

The information on the post #1533 about the arrival of Z 50000 by December 2016 on the Pontoise to Creil line and Transilien K, this is the replacement of RIB/RIO.


----------



## Falubaz




----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Great photos!

Unfortunately, interior door is vandalized...


----------



## donquichotedelmedina

*Orsay station*










*Parc de Sceaux Station*







[


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## HARTride 2012

^^
Great photos!

Minato, any word on how the MI 79 refurbishment is going? I assume its still a snail's pace.


----------



## 437.001

donquichotedelmedina said:


> *Orsay station*





donquichotedelmedina said:


> *Orsay station*


Not Orsay, but *La Croix-de-Berny station*. You can clearly read it on the pannels.


----------



## Minato ku

HARTride 2012 said:


> Minato, any word on how the MI 79 refurbishment is going? I assume its still a snail's pace.


Slow, At most half of the stock is refurbished, I think that it is even less.


----------



## Minato ku

Clamart
This station will have a transfer with the new metro line 15.

Trains serving the outer tracks are not stopping.












































Montparnasse suburban traffic is full of VB2N.


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## donquichotedelmedina

*Cergy - Marne-la-Vallée *
_Automotrice Z 1649/50_ 
























* Poissy - Marne-la-Vallée*
_Automotrice Z 1533/34_


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## HARTride 2012

^^
So in reality, the body style of the MI2N and MI09 are very similar.


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## Zack Fair

^^ Except for the front end, they look the same type, actually.


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## Minato ku

Because they are, MI09 is the second generation of the MI2N.
MI09 is a MI2N (MI2N = Matériel d'interconnexion à 2 niveaux or double-decker rolling stock for interconnection _interconnection because using both RATP and SNCF networks_).


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## Zack Fair

^^ Thanks for the explanation!


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## HARTride 2012

Thanks Minato!

I hope that one day, all of the RER A will have double-decker trains.


----------



## Ledindondelafarce

HARTride 2012 said:


> Thanks Minato!
> 
> I hope that one day, all of the RER A will have double-decker trains.


^^ This is going to happen soon. All of the MI84 trains should have been removed by now, and MS61 trains are slowly being remplaced by MI09 trains. All of them. It should be 100% double-decker by 2017.


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## Minato ku

Vanves - Malakoff
The station is just after Montparnasse on N suburban network.
Before 1986 there were a station between Montparnasse and Vanves Malakoff, the station Ouest-Ceinture, located in the 14th arrondissement at Porte de Vanves.
In 1986 with the work of Atlantique high speed line, tracks around the station were modified which led to the closure of Ouest-Ceinture.

The actual station building opened in 1934








The inner tracks are used by local services and outer tracks by express services, TER (Regional trains from other regions) and intercity trains.


























TER Centre


----------



## Augusto

And long after 1986 I remember that some Rambouillet bound trains continued to stop at Ouest-Ceinture for the sncf staff only even if there were not platforms anymore. It was officially forbiden to get off but it was, of course, possible to open the doors as the rolling stock was either the RIB or the Z5100.. I remember the announcement "arrêt de service".


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## Minato ku

I discovered this former station of Ouest-Ceinture about 10 years ago when I did the whole coulé verte (Porte de Vanves to Massy Palaiseau) with my father.
I noticed a station building with 70's SNCF signs.
I didn't know that there were a station after Montparnasse in inner Paris.

When you learn the railway history of Paris, you discover that many stations have disappeared.
There were transfer station between the Petite Ceinture (old inner railway belt) and the track leaving the major terminal.

The new station at Rosa Parks on the RER E can be seen as the revival of the former Est Ceinture station.


----------



## Krim

Minato ku said:


> Boissy St Léger branch does not serve Val de Fontenay.
> I don't believe that people living closer to RER A will use the RER E, from the east the RER A reaches faster Central Paris and La Défense than the RER E.
> 
> I think that people using the RER E will be the people leaving closer to RER E and people coming from the northern suburbs.
> People coming for the north, by example northern RER B and B will a transfer at Magenta.
> 
> People coming for the south, southern RER B and D will continue to use the RER A.
> There is a direct cross platform as Chatelet-Les-Halles between the northbound RER B and the westbound RER A (and the eastbound RER A and southbound RER B, this is pratical for people living in the south and working in the west) and the transfer between the RER D and RER A at Gare de Lyon is short (more people transfer there rather than Chatelet-Les-Halles between, both line).
> 
> ___________________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Versailles-Chantiers
> The station is aptly named with the ongoing renovation work and the construction work of a new passenger building have begun. (Chantier means a construction site in French)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Render of the second passengers building


cette gare que j'emprunte quasi quotidiennement n'a jamais aussi bien porté son nom:lol:


----------



## 00Zy99

Krim said:


> cette gare que j'emprunte quasi quotidiennement n'a jamais aussi bien porté son nom:lol:


This is the English forum.

Please respond in English, if possible.

hno:


----------



## Thorum

^^ He/she said that the station never carried its name that well.
Its name (Versailles-Chantiers) meaning Versailles-ConstructionSite


Google translate is not THAT difficult to find, is it? Try this link: https://translate.google.be/#fr/en/chantier


----------



## Svartmetall

A short walkthrough of my least favourite station on the RER network in the centre of Paris - Auber. 






RER A between Auber and Chatelet including a transfer between RER A and RER D at Chatelet.






Platform views at Chatelet Les Halles from the RER D platforms. 






Gare de Lyon transfer from RER D to Metro Line 14. 






La Défense RER A station to the main building.


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## Minato ku

Nice videos.
_______________________________________








La Varenne - Chennevières	
This station serves as an intermediate terminus during peak hours.


----------



## donquichotedelmedina

Train 27C in Ivry-sur-Seine.
It was the first to be painted with the new livery "carmillon".









Sainte Geneviève des Bois
STIF "Carmillon" livery


----------



## donquichotedelmedina

*Versailles-Château Rive-Gauche Station*


----------



## Minato ku

This is *Ouest Ceinture station*
See posts #1586, #1586 and #1587 this station was in operation on Montparnasse suburban network (Transilien N) until 1986.
The building will be converted into office or retail space.

The station is called Ouest Ceinture,
Ouest because the train form Montparnasse serves the west (ouest = west in French) 
Ceinture because this station is also on the Petite Ceinture (inner railway belt).


----------



## 437.001

^^
The highrise in hindsight is the Tour Montparnasse, next to Montparnasse station.

Btw, does any Transilien arrive/depart from Vaugirard? 
And is Vaugirard considered a different station from Montparnasse in the same way as Bercy is considered a different station from Gare de Lyon?


----------



## Minato ku

Vaugirard is considered to be part of Gare Montparnasse. 
This is the hall 3 of Montparnasse.
It is connected to the other halls unlike Bercy station which is seperated of Gare de Lyon.

No Transilien service departs of Vaugirard, this hall is served by TER trains.


----------



## donquichotedelmedina

Torcy station


----------



## Sacré Coeur

Ledindondelafarce said:


> All of the MI84 trains should have been removed by now.


There are still some MI84 trains left on RER A line. Sadly


----------



## Minato ku

Even worse, I think I see more MI 84 than MS 61 when I take the RER A. hno:


----------



## Minato ku

Nanterre-Université



























MI 09 arriving at Nanterre Université seen from a Z 6400 of Transilien L.


----------



## VincentB_

Now, back to the countryside :lol:

Fontainebleau (Transilien R) :





Pics taken in july at the end of a hike in the forest between the stations Bois-le-Roi and Fontainebleau.


----------



## Svartmetall

A few videos of things not so often featured here. 

Firstly, some tours of Saint-Lazare station (Europe's second busiest by some measures). 

Saint-Lazare exterior 2014 08 12.








The suburban lines, TER and intercity - 2014 08 12. 








Transfer from the Station to the Metro - 2014 08 12.


----------



## Svartmetall

Two rather lesser seen videos - firstly at Saint-Cloud station at platform level.







Next - a long ride on the upper deck of a Transilien line U from Saint-Cloud all the way to La Défense.


----------



## Minato ku

Massy - Palaiseau


----------



## Svartmetall

Oh, and a bonus video after last night - Auber dense running of trains. Was particularly busy!


----------



## HARTride 2012

Minato ku said:


> Massy - Palaiseau


Great photos! I see a relatively new passenger hall.


----------



## Minato ku

Enghien-les-Bains
Platform heights have been increased, new lifts will be built.


----------



## Minato ku

Argenteuil


----------



## HARTride 2012

So tons of money was spent to refurbish the MS 61 in the early 2000s. Only to have them scrapped ten years later. Such a shame, though I understand the asbestos problems.

Watch the MI 79 suffer the same fate in 2025.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Does anyone know if there's a map somewhere of all the TER lines that serve Paris? Or at least one online place that centralizes them all even without a map. Thanks!


----------



## dimlys1994

alexandru.mircea said:


> Does anyone know if there's a map somewhere of all the TER lines that serve Paris? Or at least one online place that centralizes them all even without a map. Thanks!


Is this map suitable for you? Actually TER as name is not used in Paris and Ile de France - only called Transillien:
https://www.transilien.com/contents/fr/Docs---PDF/Plans/Carte fusion_03_2014.pdf


----------



## alexandru.mircea

^thanks, but I was thinking of the TERs coming from the neighbouring regions (Burgundy, Picardy, Normandy etc).


----------



## dimlys1994

alexandru.mircea said:


> ^thanks, but I was thinking of the TERs coming from the neighbouring regions (Burgundy, Picardy, Normandy etc).


Maybe this - TER Picardie:










TER Haute-Normandie:










TER Centre:










TER Bourgogne:










TER Champagne-Ardenne:










These are from all regions, surrounded Ile-de-France, all taken from Wikipedia, for other TER services you can visit: www.ter.sncf.com


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Thanks!


----------



## Svartmetall

HARTride 2012 said:


> So tons of money was spent to refurbish the MS 61 in the early 2000s. Only to have them scrapped ten years later. Such a shame, though I understand the asbestos problems.
> 
> Watch the MI 79 suffer the same fate in 2025.


Ten years is fine if you ask me for a refurb to last. That's 1/3 of the lifetime of your average heavy use train. Do you think 10 years post refurb is unreasonable?


----------



## alexandru.mircea

The TER Centre section on the SNCF website has exactly what I'm looking for: http://cdn.ter.sncf.com/medias/PDF/centre/TER-CarteReseau-A4-2014_tcm56-13049_tcm56-27689.pdf All the TER lines that go to Paris can be seen on their map, with all stations they serve _within_ IDF specified.

High Normandy and Picardy also have their detailed TER maps in pdf format but the TER lines going to Paris are only vaguely indicated as a general direction once they leave the region, you can't know what stations they have within IDF:
High Normandy: http://cdn.ter.sncf.com/medias/PDF/haute_normandie/carte réseau TER HN_tcm59-14672_tcm59-14671.pdf
Picardy: http://cdn.ter.sncf.com/medias/PDF/picardie/TERPICA-FEV-2014_tcm68-20911_tcm68-27902.pdf

Champagne and Burgundy don't have any map at all, they should be ashamed of themselves. :lol:


EDIT: although based on this none of the TER lines from Centre actually reach Paris, they only go into IDF up until Etampes, Dourdan, Rambouillet or Versailles (where you have to change with Transiliens or RERs to reach Paris): http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/TER_Centre,_carte_du_réseau.png


----------



## Minato ku

No, there are TER Centre serving Paris.
Paris Montparnasse - Chartres is one of the busiest TER line.


----------



## Minato ku

The redevelopment of the station of La Croix de Berny

1- Creation of a new main access
2- Expansion of the historic access
3- Creating an underpass under the track linking to the new main access
4- Partial expansion of the platform
5- Renovation of all station areas

















Completion in 2019


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Neat!


----------



## Minato ku

Bécon-les-Bruyères
Renovation of the station
The current main building (Asniere-sur-Seine) will be renovated and enlarged








New building will be built in the south side (Courbevoie) of the station








A new footbridge will be built


----------



## HARTride 2012

Neat!


----------



## Ledindondelafarce

Last Wednesday, the STIF has voted the financing of studies to automatize the central trunk of the RER A (78 million €), and the financing of further studies to expand the RER E farther west (119 million €), in order to allow the beginning of the construction of the project. It surely is a small step but it shows the project is still on its way and the STIF believes it will eventually be financed.Link


----------



## Blackraven

How's progress on CDG Express?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDG_Express


----------



## Ledindondelafarce

Blackraven said:


> How's progress on CDG Express?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDG_Express


^^ Slowly getting ahead. The push for it is stronger as never, in early November the prime minister named someone to carry the project. Openning date is still planned in 2023.


----------



## Kane_84

*Luxembourg*


----------



## Minato ku

Regio 2N trains for Transilien R.



> *Bombardier Wins Order from STIF*
> Posted 29 December 2014 by NNL Staff
> 
> Bombardier Transportation won an order to supply 42 Regio 2N train sets to the Syndicat des Transports d’Ile-de-France (STIF) and SNCF. This order for 42 double-deck trains is an additional order in the framework of an ongoing contract signed in 2010 and is valued at approximately 397 million euro ($484 million US). Delivery of the new trains will start from September 2017 and the trains will operate on Line R of the Parisian suburban network.
> The STIF and SNCF selected the long eight-car suburban Regio 2N version from the BOMBARDIER OMNEO platform of extra-wide double-deck electrical multiple units (EMU).
> 
> The 110m-trains will have five seats in each row, two seats on one side of the corridor and three seats on the other, in order to offer more seating capacity compared to conventional double-deck trains. The Regio 2N trains are designed to operate with three units coupled together, enabling it to transport a total of 3,120 passengers of which 1,746 passengers can travel seated.


http://www.netnewsledger.com/2014/12/29/bombardier-wins-order-from-stif/


----------



## JloKyM

Versailles Chantier Train Station + a TGV bonus


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
Cool!


----------



## Minato ku

Good news.

The construction of the tunnel connecting Haussmann Saint-Lazare to the Defense for the RER E will start in September 2015.
The extention of the RER E to Nanterre La Folie will open by 2020 and the section to Mantes la Jolie by 2022.

https://www.lejournaldugrandparis.fr/chantier-eole-le-rer-e-sagrandit/


----------



## Kane_84

*Neuilly - Porte Maillot*


----------



## Minato ku

Nanterre-Université
The widening of the RER A platform seems well underway. The westbound track is installed.


----------



## Minato ku

*Strike on the RER A after the assault of a driver*



> PARIS - Over a million Parisians faced commuter hell on Thursday when drivers on one of Europe's busiest train lines went on strike after a passenger assaulted one of their colleagues.
> 
> There were chaotic scenes at stations across the capital after the RER A line -- which cuts across the city and carries 1.2 million people a day -- was totally stopped.
> 
> The strike began the night before when a passenger in Torcy, east of Paris, got his hand stuck in the closing doors and then head-butted the driver when he came to deal with the situation.
> ...


http://www.interaksyon.com/article/104046/a-million-parisians-in-commuter-hell-as-attack-sparks-rail-strike

Chatelet-les-Halles









Saint-Lazare

















http://www.leparisien.fr/transports/en-images-jeudi-noir-dans-les-transports-franciliens-29-01-2015-4489049.php


----------



## Minato ku

Chatelet-les-Halles, moving walkways.





Vincennes station entrances closed


----------



## 437.001

^^
Looks a bit like Sâo Paulo.

Hopefully the RER E extension will come soon and make these problems less grave.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

^luckily though this was a one-off (a strike)


----------



## Minato ku

Gare de l'Est


----------



## 00Zy99

Nice lighting. I like how it creates the impression of a series of mechanical ribs down the platform.


----------



## Minato ku

Nogent-sur-Marne


----------



## HARTride 2012

Neat photos!


----------



## Minato ku

Aulnay-sous-Bois
Renovation of the station

















http://www.rerb-leblog.fr/la-gare-daulnay-sous-bois-se-modernise/


----------



## Kane_84

*Port-Royal

*


----------



## CB31

*The Alstom-Bombardier consortium will supply 10 additional trains for the RER A line in Paris*









©ALSTOM Transport / TOMA – C. Sasso



> 12/02/2015
> 
> STIF[1] has ordered a further ten MI09 double-deck trains from the Alstom-Bombardier consortium. The total amount of the contract is €150 million, including €95 million for Alstom. This order relates to a purchase option on a contract awarded to the Alstom-Bombardier consortium in 2009. The new trains - which will be delivered during 2017 - will operate on the RER[2] line A, which carries 1.2 million passengers per day, making it the busiest regional line in Europe. The new order aims at strengthening the line's performance by increasing trains capacity and frequencies. It goes along operations that are related to a performance master plan being conducted on the line.
> 
> edit: please no reposting of full articles, only one paragraph and a link, thanks.


http://www.alstom.com/press-centre/2015/2/the-alstom-bombardier-consortium-will-supply-10-additional-trains-for-the-rer-a-line-in-paris/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=1909141423737060015&utm_roi=BringrImpact


----------



## subbotazh

Now in a RER-A used only double-deck trains?


----------



## Iron_

^^
Not yet. In 2017 yes.


----------



## Nouvellecosse

Are any of the metro lines as busy as RER A?


----------



## Svartmetall

^^ Define "busy"? Do you mean people per length of track? Passengers per station? Total use?


----------



## Nouvellecosse

Average number of passenger journeys per weekday.


----------



## 437.001

Nouvellecosse said:


> Average number of passenger journeys per weekday.


That, plus average passengers per square metre on board during the morning rush.


----------



## Svartmetall

Nouvellecosse said:


> Average number of passenger journeys per weekday.


That doesn't tell you how busy it is. The RER A is much longer than most metro lines, so of course there is a greater chance there are a higher number of people taking the RER compared to the metro simply due to its greater reach. 

Line M1 is the busiest metro line at 207 million people per year (2010). RER A has 309.36 million people per year. RER A carries more people.

M1 is 16.6km long whereas RER A is 109km long. There are 12.47 million people carried per km on M1 compared to 2.84 million people per km on RER A. Therefore I would conclude M1 is busier, but RER A carries more people. Very simplistic of course as I cannot be bothered to do more calculations than that (given carriage sizes vary between RER A and M1 too as RER A trains are much longer than M1, but M1 is more frequent as well than RER A), but it gives an idea that a number might not tell the full story.


----------



## Nouvellecosse

I appreciate the information, but your response can be compared to someone asking whether Sweden or Denmark is more populated, and you going into detail explaining that while Sweden has a higher total population, Denmark has a much higher population density, so therefore Denmark is actually more populated and then posting a breakdown of the population and density statistics. If the person is only wondering about the total quantity, then the density is a separate issue.

Besides, I don't agree with the premise that a line is "busier" based solely on the number of riders per route km. On a long suburban line, most people are traveling much further and therefore are staying on the train for a much greater distance. So the urban line may not actually be carrying a greater number of people at any given moment. In fact the opposite may be true given how much larger the RER trains are compared to metro trains. The urban line may just be exchanging riders much more frequently due to people constantly getting on an off and each person being counted as a separate trip despite the shortness of the trip, while on the suburban line each person is only counted once but traveling a long distance.

But most accurate measure to determine that "busyness" of a line would be the total number of passenger kms worth of transportation it provides over a given period. As an example, if a 20 km line transported 5 people across 4km each with person "A" getting on and riding for 4km and getting off, then person "B" getting on for 4km and so on, that would equate to the same number of passenger kms as if it transported one person the whole 20km but in the first scenario the line would have ridership 5X higher than in the second despite the train not actually being any fuller and never carrying any more than one passenger . 

But that's hard to determine unless you know not only the length of the line and the number of trips it provides but also the average distance of each trip which a lot of agencies don't seem to report.


----------



## Svartmetall

Again, passenger kms skews towards a long line, obviously a longer line will have a higher amount of passenger kms too. It would take 10 people riding a 10km line to equal one person riding a 100km line. Obviously the fuller train on the shorter line will feel "busier" than the longer, comparatively empty train. That's why I said it's rather simplistic in general to do what I did, but it does give an impression that ridership alone is not enough to determine "busyness". If you just asked for the line with the highest ridership, then no, nothing can match the RER A in Paris. But you didn't, you asked for the busiest line and that gives you a much more complex answer.


----------



## subbotazh

how many percent now double-deck to a simple trains in RER A? In all RER system? Not so correct of course


----------



## Minato ku

Avoid to take the annual ridership of Paris's railway lines that you find on Wikipedia, those datas exclude passengers coming from other lines of the same network.


subbotazh said:


> how many percent now double-deck to a simple trains in RER A? In all RER system? Not so correct of course


Unfortunately, I don't have details of the trains currently in service on the RER A. I can say that double decker train are the majority of train on the RER A.
In the whole RER network double decker are the majority, only RER A and B have single level trains.


----------



## Iron_

Today there are 85/140 MI 09 double-deck trains in service.


----------



## Nouvellecosse

Svartmetall said:


> Again, passenger kms skews towards a long line, obviously a longer line will have a higher amount of passenger kms too. It would take 10 people riding a 10km line to equal one person riding a 100km line. Obviously the fuller train on the shorter line will feel "busier" than the longer, comparatively empty train. That's why I said it's rather simplistic in general to do what I did, but it does give an impression that ridership alone is not enough to determine "busyness". If you just asked for the line with the highest ridership, then no, nothing can match the RER A in Paris. But you didn't, you asked for the busiest line and that gives you a much more complex answer.


It sounds to me like what you're referring to is crowdedness rather than busyness. Of course both terms are subjective and based on how people perceive something rather than an actual statistic. But I disagree that a line that is longer and therefore has it's activity spread over a larger service area is less "busy" than one with the activity more condensed. It may (or may not) be less crowded, but I still feel that "busy" best signifies the total amount how much service it provides rather than how condensed the service area is.


----------



## Minato ku

Montigny - Beauchamp
Z 50000 have retractable step for low platform like here


----------



## Minato ku

The news about the MI09 was posted above but the STIF also ordered Z 50000 for the Transilien L.


> *Stif approves €1.5bn investment in 101 new trains for Paris*
> Written by Keith Barrow Thursday, February 12, 2015
> ...
> Finally, Stif will place a €177.6m order with Bombardier for 19 additional class Z 50000 Francilien EMUs for suburban Line L, which runs west from Paris Saint-Lazare and carries around 312,000 passengers per day. The single-deck trains will be delivered in 2017 and will replace Z6400 EMUs dating from the 1970s.


http://www.railjournal.com/index.php/rolling-stock/stif-approves-%E2%82%AC15bn-investment-in-new-trains-for-paris.html?channel=529


----------



## Minato ku

*Western extension*
Extension to Nanterre - la Folie: 2020
Extension to Mantes-la-Jolie: 2022
-Initial work will begin in October and the first tunnel boring machine will be activated in 2017.
Drilling of the tunnel will last one and half years.
-A new rolling stock will be ordered for the RER E. Three candidates are running for the new stock: Alstom/Bombardier, CAF and Siemens.
-This line will have a new operating system called NExTEO, it will reduce the headway to 108 seconds between trains.
-For easing of operation and to reduce the consequences of an incident on the entire line, trains from the east will terminate at Nanterre-la-Folie and trains from Mantes will terminate at Rosa Parks. The station Rosa Parks will open in December 2015.

Scroll >>>








http://www.usinenouvelle.com/editorial/le-rer-e-a-la-conquete-de-l-ouest-du-grand-paris.N315236


----------



## 437.001

^^
Still no news about that idea of an extension of RER E services to Meaux taking over Transilien P?


----------



## Minato ku

^^ In my opinion, it is better to keep this service to the Transilien P. 
I think that in the future the RER C and D may lose some services in favor of more express services to the terminal stations.
Transilien R for Gare de Lyon and maybe a new Transilien network for Gare d'Austerlitz.
The RER C has already lost its branch to Argenteuil which was transferred to the Transilien J.

______________________________________








Meaux








Z 50000 are for the "local service" between Gare de l'Est and Meaux. 
It serves every stations between Chelles and Meaux, stations located before Chelles are served by the RER E.








Z 20500 from Gare de l'Est heading towards Château-Thierry


























B 82500 from Gare de l'Est heading towards La Ferté-Milon








Inside a Z 50000 leaving Meaux for Gare de l'Est


----------



## 437.001

Minato ku said:


> ^^ In my opinion, it is better to keep this service to the Transilien P.
> 
> Z 50000 are for the "local service" between Gare de l'Est and Meaux.
> It serves every stations between Chelles and Meaux, stations located before Chelles are served by the RER E.


These are not so much "local". I mean, from Gare de l'Est they call only at Chelles-Gournay, Vaires-Torcy, Lagny-Thorigny, and Esbly before reaching Meaux.

Btw, how many kilometres are there between Gare de l'Est and Château-Thierry? And between Gare de l'Est and Meaux?



Minato ku said:


> Z 20500 from Gare de l'Est heading towards Château-Thierry


I used this rolling stock on a service to Meaux, they ressemble a lot Renfe class 450 EMUs. Class Z 20500 must be the original ones.

I also used a BB67X00+RIB on a La Ferté Milon-Gare de l'Est service.



Minato ku said:


> B 82500 from Gare de l'Est heading towards La Ferté-Milon


I used this between Meaux and La Ferté Milon.


----------



## Minato ku

By local, I meant, the service between Gare de l'Est and Meaux with the highest number of stops.
Meaux is at 44 km of Gare de l'Est
Château-Thierry is at 94 km of Gare de l'Est

Z 20500 has been produced between 1988 and 1998, it is in service in the RER C, RER D, Transilien P and R.
_______________________________________________






















Versailles-Chantiers
Renovation and construction of a new hall.


----------



## Nexis

Why are the platforms so low at some stations?


----------



## Minato ku

Well, Paris suburban railway network is mix of several networks with several height of platform.
Some are hight, others are low, there are been some heightening works in many station but there are still a lot of stations with low platforms.
I don't know if they will increase the height of the platforms at Versailles Chantier. I hope they will do.
_______________________________________








Chaville-Rive-Gauche
I took these pictures in September, it was the end of the heightening work for the patform of this station


----------



## ssiguy2

If you are going from A to B and you can either take the Metro or RER, do you pay more for the RER?


----------



## Sacré Coeur

No, if you stay inside the city of Paris boundaries, the fare is the same. But if you travel in the suburbs, the RER fare will be more expensive. For instance, if you go to La Defense, you can either take the line 1 or RER A but RER will be more expensive.


----------



## VincentB_

Sacré Coeur said:


> No, if you stay inside the city of Paris boundaries, the fare is the same. But if you travel in the suburbs, the RER fare will be more expensive. *For instance, if you go to La Defense, you can either take the line 1 or RER A but RER will be more expensive.*


Well... You're right but this case is absolutely unique !

Apart from this case, if you are going from a station A to a station B, if you have a choice between the RER and the metro, the fare will be identical (in fact you use the same ticket).


----------



## Minato ku

Bécon-les-Bruyères
Construction of the new footbridge.
The construction is underway above the platforms of the Group III (Saint-Lazare - Nanterre-Université/Cergy - Le Haut).

















The footbridge will continue to reach the platforms of the Group II (Saint-Lazare - Saint-Cloud/Versailles-Rive-Droite/Saint-Nom-la-Bretèche).


----------



## Sacré Coeur

^^ You can also see a brand new development (ZAC des Bruyères in Bois Colombes, 250000 m² of housing, offices, shops, public facilities) behind the station. Bécon-les-Bruyères and Bois-Colombes stations are going to be even more important in a very near future thanks to the connection with the line 15 of the Grand Paris Express.

Bécon-les-Bruyères between 2001 and 2013


----------



## Minato ku

Nanterre-Université
New station building under in construction












































Enlargement of RER A westbound platform and the provisional RER A westbound platform.


----------



## Minato ku

Gare de l'Est
Because of work in the tunnel section, the RER E services terminate at Gare de l'Est during this weekend.


----------



## HARTride 2012

Does that happen often?


----------



## Minato ku

No. It is not common but it can happen in case of work in the underground tunnel, strike or other difficulties.
___________________________

A great video by ErebosSan








Central Paris stations


----------



## HARTride 2012

Per Symbioz, it looks like the MI 84 railcars are to be renovated? Minato can you confirm please?


----------



## Minato ku

I confirm.


----------



## Minato ku

I must say that I am rather against this move.
I think that this is not sustainable in the long term.



> *Broadening the city through a universal fare card*
> Yonah Freemark March 30th, 2015
> 
> *» The Paris region plans a single monthly fare for transit access, eliminating zones for pass holders, with the dual goals of encouraging more transit use and social integration.*
> 
> What if it were possible to travel as much as you’d like by train or bus within Connecticut, from Stamford to New Haven, Hartford, New London, Waterbury, Danbury, Putnam, and hundreds of other towns, and then to travel within them, all on one transit fare card at the monthly price of just $76?
> 
> That’s what, in essence, will occur beginning in September in Île-de-France, the region that surrounds and includes Paris and which is practically the physical size of Connecticut—albeit far more populous and benefiting from a far more extensive transit system.
> 
> The plan is to eliminate the current five-zone transit fare system for people holding weekly or monthly passes and replace them with a universal, unlimited fare. The universal card will apply to virtually all transit services within Île-de-France, which is the most populous region in France, with 12 million inhabitants spread over 4,638 square miles (for comparison, the city of Paris proper has 2.3 million residents in 41 square miles, and New York City, which has a universal fare card for Subways and buses, is 305 square miles). The map below compares the shape and scale of Île-de-France with the New York region. Imagine a single monthly fare card for all transit service in that area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2015/03/30/broadening-the-city-through-a-universal-fare-card/#comments


----------



## HARTride 2012

My transit district is planning, with state funding approval, to begin rolling out a regional, unified, farecard system with seven different transit districts over the course of the next five years. It will be very similar to the system in NY, and I am greatly in favor of such systems, as they eliminate the hassle of having to buy separate fare cards for each system and in some cases, deal with complex and distinctively different fare structures. I also like having one uniform fare structure because it allows for better implementation of upgrades and improvements, such as smartphone payment capabilities.

Minato, may I ask why, in further detail, why you believe these types of fare systems aren't sustainable?


----------



## Nexis

You would need 2 zones to cover the NYC region...but I could see it working...just a little to well... I don't think our transit system could handle the hundreds of thousands who would abandon their cars for transit at least for Regional. Urban Buses are a steal , but suffer from overcrowding... The Solution is building out a network of Tram lines in Urban Jersey , Urban Connecticut and along certain congested corridors... Also shouldn't that post be in the NYC Commuter rail thread?


----------



## HARTride 2012

^^
While the article references NY, it is about Paris.


----------



## Minato ku

HARTride 2012 said:


> Minato, may I ask why, in further detail, why you believe these types of fare systems aren't sustainable?


Because the area covered by the single fare is far too big (note that this single fare will be only for subscriptions).
A single fare could cover a large part of cost if we take small area, for a much bigger area it will be no longer sufficient.

Even if this increases the number of people using the public transportation (I don't think that it will make a big change for Paris), bigger is the area, bigger is the number of structures to maintain and lower is the density of people.

We could face a lack of fund to maintain infrastructure in a more or less near future.
It's not a good calculation. It's mostly a electioneering idea to keep the region in the next regional elections.
(Elections which come by a pure coincidence at roughly the same time as the establishment of the single fare structure for the subscriptions).


----------



## donquichotedelmedina

*Transilien*
*Line Gare de l'Est- Provins*







*Line Gare de l'Est- Couloumiers*



*Gare de l'Est*


----------



## Kane_84

*Stade de France - Saint-Denis*


----------



## Minato ku

Versailles-Chantiers


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## _Night City Dream_

Minato, how long are the trains on each RER line? How many cars per train? Thanks.


----------



## Minato ku

It is very complicated, expecially for the RER C and D, so I give you only the RER A, B and E.
Trains are most operated with serveral unit. The number of cars can change depending the distination on the RER C and D.

RER A
MS 61: 3x3 cars 225m
MI 84: 2x4 cars 210m
MI2N/MI09: 2x5 cars 225m

RER B
MI 79/MI 84: 2x4 cars 210m

RER E
MI2N: 2x5 cars 225m

Note that the RER A and B have shorter trains late in the night and in weekends and the RER E has some shorter trains outside rush hours.


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## VincentB_

I was in Paris for a few days last week (to apply for a job).

Here's a panorama showing the Eiffel tower, the _Champ de mars_ RER C station, and the Bir Hakeim bridge with the _Bir Hakeim_ metro station (line 6) in the background :



The bridge links two stations : _Bir Hakeim_...





... and _Passy_ :





The bridge was formerly called Passy bridge :



Pics taken last saturday, three days ago.


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## Svartmetall

Minato ku said:


> Versailles-Chantiers


When I was in Paris last, it was clear they were heavily renovating this station. It'll be a great terminal when finished - thanks for the video! Good to see the long-term plan.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Railway Gazette:



> https://www.railwaygazette.com/uploads/pics/tn_fr-sncf-francilien-interior-bombardier_01.jpg
> 
> *SNCF orders 19 more Francilien EMUs*
> 06 May 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FRANCE: SNCF has exercised a €127m option for a further 19 Francilien electric multiple-units, Bombardier announced on May 6. The order is to be financed Ile-de-France transport authority STIF.
> 
> The Francilien single-deck eight-car commuter EMUs have a capacity of 1 000 passengers, with wide gangways and doors to facilitate passenger flow. The latest batch is scheduled for delivery between the end of 2016 and mid-2017, and will be used on Transilien Line L on the Versailles Rive Droite branch
> 
> ...


----------



## VincentB_

Back at home - with some pictures.

And now for some abandoned stations 

_Pont Cardinet_ is still in operation (line L) ; but this platform of the station is unused since 1985 : it was part of the former _ligne d'Auteuil_ (between _Boulogne-Auteuil_ and _Saint Lazare)_, now closed :





_Boulogne-Auteuil_ :



The tracks were removed a few years ago to make room for new buildings ; construction is currently on the way :



In front of the station, the old maps and information panels still stands...



...in their 1985 state ! That means, no RER E, no line 14, no Transilien...



The ground floor, now a restaurant :



And a few meters from there, one of the entrance of the metro station (_Porte d'Auteuil_, line 10) :


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## parcdesprinces

VincentB_ said:


> _Pont Cardinet_ is still in operation (line L) ; *but this platform of the station is unused since 1985 *


It is closed only since 1996 actually , because from 1985 to 1996 a shuttle service existed between this station and Pereire-Levallois station (in order to create a connection between the St-Lazare suburban lines at Pont Cardinet and the RER C at Pereire).

Here are two pics taken at Pont Cardinet the last day of service of this shuttle in 96:



parcdesprinces said:


> Mid 90s (Pont Cardinet <-> Pereire shuttle at Pont Cardinet station)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> petiteceinture.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> petiteceinture.org


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## Minato ku

VincentB_ said:


> ...in their 1985 state ! That means, no RER E, no line 14, no Transilien...


As Parcdesprinces said the platform ended service in 1996 with the end of the railway shuttle linking Pont Cardinet with Pereire (RER C). This service is now operated with buses.

The map is from the mid 90's, there is the line 1 to La Défense, this extension opened in 1992.
The RER D is going to the southeast, this only happened in 1995 with the opening of the tunnel between Chatelet-les-Halles and Gare de Lyon.


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## VincentB_

Yes, you are right (both of you), I made a confusion : the line was temporary closed in 1985 (during the works on the VMI) but reopened later.

The southern section of the line was definitely closed in 1993, the northern section in 1996.

I remember very well the shuttle between _Pereire_ and _Pont Cardinet_ ; it was really a joke : trains were so scarce that a pedestrian was faster than the trains hno: ; quite nobody really did use them.


Edit : near _Pont Cardinet_ (the station is in the background) :



This place, now _Martin Luther king park_, was formerly the _Batignolles freight station_, where arrived a great part of the food for the central market of Paris (_Les Halles_).

The tracks between _Pont Cardinet_ and _Saint Lazare_ are ont he right, behind the wall.

Many remnants of the freight station can be seen in the park, especially old tracks.


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## skyshakernowlive

I love how Paris has double decker RER trains!


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## Minato ku

Two videos of the Saint-Germain branch of the RER A with MS61.
This will soon be history.

Nanterre Préfecture





Rueil Malmaison


----------



## donquichotedelmedina

*





















Tournan en Brie












B 82500 passing through Nogent le Perreux station







*


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## 00Zy99

Why will those RER A pictures no longer be possible?

Rolling stock replacement?

Reassignment of route?


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## Antje

The MS 61 is being withdrawn from service by somewhere about 2017.


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## HARTride 2012

MI 09s replacing them?


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## Minato ku

HARTride 2012 said:


> MI 09s replacing them?


Yes.


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## Minato ku

Nanterre-Université
The widening of the island platform of the RER A is completed.
The westbound side of the platform has reopened.


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## HARTride 2012

^^
Looking good


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## Minato ku

SNCF Transilien driver of line B


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## dimlys1994

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...view/ato-to-boost-capacity-on-rer-line-a.html
> 
> *ATO to boost capacity on Paris RER Line A*
> 10 Jun 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FRANCE: Alstom Transport has been selected to develop and install automatic train operation on Paris RER Line A under a €20m contract awarded by city transport operator RATP, the Ile-de-France region and transport authority STIF.
> 
> The introduction of attended ATO that meets Grade of Automation 2 is expected to improve performance and boost capacity on Line A, which is currently carrying around 1·2 million passengers/day. It will allow headways to be reduced and service frequencies increased, while reducing the journey time through the central core between Vincennes and La Défense by about 2 min
> 
> ...


----------



## donquichotedelmedina

*PROYECT: "GRAND PÔLE INTERMODAL JUVISY 2020"*


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## Minato ku

Good, Juvisy need big improvement but I would have liked something more ambitious.


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## VincentB_

Pereire-Levallois (RER C, VMI branch) :



On the left, the tunnel to St Ouen ; on the right, the former line to Pont Cardinet, now permanently closed : 





We can clearly see that the tracks were formerly in a trench that was later covered.


I will probably live in Levallois for 6 months (maybe more), relatively close to this station.


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## Minato ku

I have seen some information about the withdrawal of the MS 61 and MI 84 of the RER A.
The last MS 61 should be removedat the end of 2016 and the last MI84 in mid 2017.

It confirms what we see on the ground, the withdrawal of the MS 61 is faster than the withdrawal of the MI 84.


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## VincentB_

I love abandoned stations 

Here's another one : _Gare de Reuilly_ (48.840357, 2.392440). Renovated, it's now an administrative building.



It was located on the now closed Bastille line, that ran from the Bastille railway station (destroyed in 1984 ; the _Opéra Bastille_ was build on the same location ; both buildings have similarities : the station was not really beautiful, and the Opera is one of the ugliest buildings in Paris hno and was replaced by the central section of the RER A.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...-remodelling-plans-announced.html?channel=524
> 
> *Paris Gare du Nord remodelling plans announced*
> Thursday, June 25, 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Artist's impression of the redesigned RER Line B platforms at Gare du Nord_
> 
> _SNCF CEO Mr Guillaume Pepy and the mayor of Paris Ms Anne Hidalgo presented plans on June 24 to expand capacity at Gare du Nord, Paris' busiest station which is used by up to 800,000 passengers per day_
> 
> The first phase includes restoration of the existing buildings dating back to the 1860s and significant expansion of the space available for Eurostar services to London, with new mezzanine waiting areas envisaged above the tracks and a new business class lounge in space formerly used as a hotel. This phase also includes the refurbishment of the underground four-track RER station serving lines B and D, which is used by 80% of Gare du Nord passengers.
> 
> The first phase should be completed by 2018 as part of improvements totalling €500m being undertaken by SNCF at other major Paris stations
> 
> ...


----------



## Minato ku

Gare Saint Lazare
There is nothing unusal about the pictures, it is just the average evening rush.


----------



## 00Zy99

When the E extension opens, Montparnasse will be the only terminus without a RER connection, correct?


----------



## Minato ku

No, there is also Gare de l'Est (well even if Magenta/Gare du Nord is close), it is not directly connected to the RER. :angel:
For the moment the underground connection between Magenta/Gare du Nord and Gare de l'Est is in standby.
Maybe with the CDG Express and for Olympic game 2024 and Expo 2025, they will decide to build this connection.

I also forgot the small Paris Bercy terminal


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## alexandru.mircea

Minato ku said:


> Gare Saint Lazare
> There is nothing unusal about the pictures, it is just the average evening rush.


It's probably a day with a lot of delays, cancelled trains etc. Because I use it a lot now, I have traffic notifications for lines J and L, and there are days with LOADS of problems. Otherwise it can be much less crowded even at rush hour.


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## Minato ku

It was today.
There were no major disruption at this time, I think that it is just that there are several trains that will leave this part of the station at the same time. 
Trains are not announced yet when they will be announced all these people will join their trains.

The number of people here can quickly fluctuate.


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## Minato ku

The western side of the RER A during this summer (end of July and August).
Closure of the line between Auber and La Défense, no RER A service to Poissy and closure of Cergy Prefecture station.










The L services terminating at Maisons Laffitte will be extended to Poissy during this time.


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## Clery

Oh boy, I can't imagine the consequences on trafic accross the network.


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## Minato ku

Parc des Expositions
For the big Japan Expo convention, they put a signage similar to those on Japanese train stations.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

I wonder, why do temperatures approaching 30 degrees celsius make it so hard for SNCF to run trains in the IdF? I mean, it's the same SNCF that successfully runs trains in the south of France, where 30 degrees is the normal average high in summer. 

Can't say I'm a heavy user of suburban rail so it was this time that I first noticed the existence of trains without ventilation, nevermind air conditioning (on lines B and E). Conditions close to fainting from the greenhouse effect.


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## Minato ku

Nanterre-Université
Track of the provisional platform has been removed.


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## 00Zy99

Images broken.

Is that me or the site?


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## Nexis

The Images are fine , hit refresh a few times...


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## Minato ku

michal.j said:


> I noticed that RER C is closed on this part every year, could you tell me why?


The famous "travaux Castor".
This section of the RER closes every summer to renovate the tunnel, this tunnel is old and next to the Seine river.

These works are underway every summer since 1996 and it is far from finished.

This year, the section closed is bigger than usually.
Usually it was only the section between Gare d'Austerlitz and Invalides that the line was closed.
During this summer 2015, it will be between Gare d'Austerlitz and Javel/Avenue Henri Martin.










Some videos about the "travaux Castor".


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## Minato ku

They updated the map
The closures on the line A are clearly visible.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Pics from a site visit at Invalides station of RER C on July 22:









































































http://www.sncf.com/fr/FilInfo/Presse/Travaux-Castor-RERC-012698

The renovations project has its own website too: http://www.travaux-castor.fr/


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## VincentB_

Other pics of the renovation works in the central section of the RER C.


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## Antje

Saint-Maur – Créteil

RER MS 61 M.15238 at Saint-Maur – Créteil by Antje, on Flickr

On the western end…

Butterfly on MS 61 by Antje, on Flickr


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## DingeZ

Just three days ago I was in Paris and what struck me was the difference in commutation of different RER lines. The closure at line A was excellently communicated. There were posters at almost every station, often in trains and there were frequently announcements in up to five languages. On the other hand the closure of line C was nowhere to be seen. Only at the closed stations the line was taped off. Even at the entrances of the closed stations there was barely any information, just fences that blocked the entrances.


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## Nexis

*Voyage en cabine de Château-Thierry à PARIS EST*


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## hans280

I arrived to CDG Airport yesterday morning with some Swedish friends and persuaded them (it was rush hour) that the fastest option would be to take RER B to central Paris. Once arrived on the patfirm I noticed that the first two trains to depart were "omnibus" (stop everywhere), so I told them that there's plenty of non-stop trains to Gare du Nord - So let's wait a bit. But... The next two trains were also omnibus, which made me - and, frankly, the SNCF - a laughing stock among the visitors. Have the direct trains to/from CDG been dropped? Or are they suspended during rush hours? Does anyone know more?


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## Minato ku

All RER B trains are local during rush hours.


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## hans280

^^ Thanks. Yeah, I figured as much. It must be pretty recent, though? The time tables hanging as paper posters in most RER stations still announce a number of non-stop trains between 7.30 and 9.00. The electronic screens contradict them. The screens are correct.


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## Minato ku

Gare de Lyon
The platforms of the RER D at Gare de Lyon will have a little refresh.









http://www.leparisien.fr/paris-75/paris-75005/rer-la-gare-de-lyon-dit-adieu-a-l-orange-des-annees-1980-22-10-2015-5210435.php


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## VincentB_

@hans280 : There are no slots available for direct trains during rush hours. Don't forget that this line is totally overcrowded.

In fact, theses trains are most of the time empty... and are very unpopular here.

And yes, the posters are very often outdated :lol:

Speaking about the line B : the southern part was exploited by the CMP. The rolling stock was very fast and reliable. Here's a restored "Z" train :











"spitting is forbidden"




First class seats :



https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_23000


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## VincentB_

Viaduc du quai de Javel (RER C) :



This bridge is located between the stations _Javel_ and _Garigliano_. On the right, André Citroën park, recently built on the location of the former Citröën plant.


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## Minato ku

Gare du Nord RER
New information screens


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## VincentB_

_Gare d'Orsay_ (RER C) :


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## Nexis

Whats the combined ridership of the RER and Suburban Rail network?


----------



## Nouvellecosse

I've always wondered that as well, but it seems that the RER ridership figures are separated between the RATP and SNCF services.


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## mcarling

Minato ku said:


> They envision the opening of the tunnel for 2012.


2012 seems optimistic. Is that a typo? Maybe 2021?


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## dimlys1994

Today is opening of new Rosa Parks station:


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## Minato ku

mcarling said:


> 2012 seems optimistic. Is that a typo? Maybe 2021?


Yes, 2021.


Nexis said:


> Whats the combined ridership of the RER and Suburban Rail network?


1.2 billion passengers. 
________________________________








Rosa Parks
This station is made of a simple island platform and passengers space under the tracks.



























Tram T3b






























































A good station for trainspotting, all the traffic of Gare de l'Est pass there.



























Because of the lack of trains for the RER E, a new local service between Gare de l'Est and Villiers sur Marne will be created using five Z 50000 trains.


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## Nouvellecosse

Minato ku said:


> Yes, 2021.
> 
> 1.2 billion passengers.


What is it in terms of average weekday ridership? Around 3.5 million?


----------



## Minato ku

^^ More like 4/4.5 million passengers in average weekday.


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## Nouvellecosse

That's more than most metro systems let alone suburban!


----------



## _Night City Dream_

Do they intend to order modern trains for RER lines?


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## StanaKatic

Minato ku said:


> Because of the lack of trains for the RER E, a new local service between Gare de l'Est and Villiers sur Marne will be created using five Z 50000 trains.


Do you have more info about these trains (schedule or stations served) ?
When will it begin ?

I used to take the Chelles - Paris-Est service that ran twice in the morning but since yesterday, it's been replaced with normal RER E to Haussmann.


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## Minato ku

It seems that my informations were wrong.
SNCF effectively added five Z 50000 to Villiers but those trains follow the usual RER E route in Central Paris.
Haussmann Saint-Lazare to Villiers-sur-Marne.



_Night City Dream_ said:


> Do they intend to order modern trains for RER lines?


Current trains on RER E are from the late 90's, they are not old. The RER E suffers of a lack of rolling stock since the extension to Tournan in 2003. They did not order enough trains at the beginning.
RER E will change its rolling stock for the extension to Mantes la Jolie but we don't know how will be this new rolling stock.


----------



## Minato ku

437.001 said:


> Do you mean platform height? :hmm:


I mean timetables.

Even if it is true that infrastructure are different from one part to another but we can create trains that are compatible with both.
Southeast network and North network have different current systems.
The RER D needs to change three time of current systems.
Southeast network, RATP network and Northern network. None use the same standard. 
Even if not operated by the RATP the RER D uses the RATP infrastructure (Chatelet les Halles and the tunnel between Chatelet les Halles and Gare du Nord).

Why are infrastructures different even inside the SNCF? Because before the nationalization in the mid 1930s, the railway network was divided in sereval private companies.



437.001 said:


> Do you think that they're really that many?
> 
> I mean, Crossrail 2 in London will be just about as complicated as RER C or RER D. :sly:


Crossrail 2 project is crazy, too much branch in the south.


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## 437.001

Minato ku said:


> I mean timetables.


:sly: Does RER work with a timetable? :uh:



Minato ku said:


> Even if it is true that infrastructure are different from one part to another but we can create trains that are compatible with both.
> Southeast network and North network have different current systems.
> The RER D needs to change three time of current systems.
> Southeast network, RATP network and Northern network. None use the same standard.
> Even if not operated by the RATP the RER D uses the RATP infrastructure (Chatelet les Halles and the tunnel between Chatelet les Halles and Gare du Nord).
> 
> Why are infrastructures different even inside the SNCF? Because before the nationalization in the mid 1930s, the railway network was divided in sereval private companies.


Je sais, ça se passe aussi en Angleterre et en Espagne.  But I thought you meant other things, like platform height, or signalling, etc.

I don't see that as a big handicap, though.



Minato ku said:


> Crossrail 2 project is crazy, too much branch in the south.


Kind of, yes. But looks like they can manage it.


----------



## Minato ku

437.001 said:


> :sly: Does RER work with a timetable? :uh


Trains work with timetable, even subway.


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## 437.001

Minato ku said:


> Trains work with timetable, even subway.


I mean outwards. I thought they worked by frequency.


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## alexandru.mircea

Apparently, a campaign of 150 minor interventions has happened on the stations of line L just recently, small stuff like cleanings, new signaling, painting, new furniture, screens etc, that have quite a positive impact IMO. A full summary can be found in the link bellow, from which I'm going to post the photos regarding the impovements at Pont Cardinet because they're the only "before and after" type of pics:

http://malignel.transilien.com/2016/02/10/operation-nettete-vos-gares









>

















>

















>

















>

















>









OK these last few aren't that minor an intervention, I could see passing through the station that there were working sites there for months. But the rest are mainly minor interventions.


----------



## vincent1746

Renovation and extension of Versailles Chantiers Station, 2nd largest outside Paris stations and after La Défense station 13/02/2016 :








































































































































Avec la webcam ce 15 février :










Plus de photos : https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/


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## 00Zy99

I notice that there are suburban services that are operated both by EMU and by locomotive. Are there any locomotive-operated RER services? If not, do locomotive-hauled excursion trains ever use RER tracks (through the center)?


----------



## 437.001

00Zy99 said:


> I notice that there are suburban services that are operated both by EMU and by locomotive. Are there any locomotive-operated RER services?


No. Only Transilien services.



00Zy99 said:


> If not, do locomotive-hauled excursion trains ever use RER tracks (through the center)?


I don't think they do on RER A or RER B, as RATP is involved. 

As for RER C, RER D, and RER E, some of the outer branches of these lines have shared tracks with some Transilien lines in which push-pull trainsets are used as well as EMU's.


----------



## 00Zy99

437.001 said:


> I don't think they do on RER A or RER B, as RATP is involved.
> 
> As for RER C, RER D, and RER E, some of the outer branches of these lines have shared tracks with some Transilien lines in which push-pull trainsets are used as well as EMU's.



Okay. But have they ever run locomotive-hauled excursion trains on the central sections of C or D? E is probably out of the question until the extension opens and enables through running. :wink:


----------



## Minato ku

RER central sections have always been operated by EMU.

Note that part of the RER B and C central sections existed prior the RER and are over 115 years old. The oldest underground rail station in Paris is Luxembourg, it opened five year prior to the metro.
These parts were used by locomotive train in the past when those section were not part of the RER.
Sceaux line (now southern part of the RER B) was electrified in the 1930s when this line was transfered to the metro company (CMP).
Invalides to Versailles line (now southeastern part of the RER C) and Orsay to Gare d'Austerlitz section both opened in 1900 and with third rail electric traction.
The RER C was born in 1979 with the opening of the tunnel between Gare d'Orsay and Invalides.


----------



## VincentB_

00Zy99 said:


> I notice that there are suburban services that are operated both by EMU and by locomotive. Are there any locomotive-operated RER services? If not, *do locomotive-hauled excursion trains ever use RER tracks (through the center)?*


That did happen sometimes on the RER A :

http://www.copef.org/styled-12/styled-16/photos-3/files/page4-1004-full.html

http://www.copef.org/styled-12/styled-16/photos-3/files/page4-1005-full.html

I have a pic of BB 9200 at Nation but i'm unable to find it, it's lost somewhere in one of my books


----------



## 437.001

^^
 WOW. I want to see that pic of that Jacquemin. Please find it!


----------



## Minato ku

It was exceptional run for special events, not a regular service.
Similar trip have been made in the RER C.
______________________________

*Big news!!
Last service of the MS61 will be Saturday, April 9.*
This is it, the end of the MS61 after 49 years of service.


----------



## 00Zy99

Minato ku said:


> It was *exceptional run for special events*, not a regular service.
> Similar trip have been made in the RER C.


That is what I was asking about. 



> *Big news!!
> Last service of the MS61 will be Saturday, April 9.*
> This is it, the end of the MS61 after 49 years of service.


Its the end of an era.


----------



## Antje

I plan to visit Paris to bid farewell to the MS61 before 9 April (28-31 March?) and record (as clean as possible) sounds for prosperity, as my disability means I may not be able to cope with the crowd on the final day.

Due to the security situation I have written directly to RATP so that they can arrange for my plan smoothly.


----------



## Antje

Another question, what was the original source of the "Big News" about the MS 61 if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## Minato ku

In Symbioz (a french forum about parisian public transportation) sombody wrote to the RATP and he received this reponse.



> Bonjour,
> 
> Votre courriel a retenu toute mon attention.
> 
> Je vous prie tout d'abord de bien vouloir accepter mes excuses pour le délai apporté à vous répondre.
> 
> Compte tenu du contexte actuel, plan Vigipirate renforcé, il nous semble difficile de pouvoir organiser un événement de grande ampleur autour du dernier voyage du MS61.
> 
> Toutefois, nous sommes conscients du fort attachement de certains de nos agents et des passionnés du matériel roulant.
> 
> Le samedi 9 avril 2016, le dernier MS61 fera bien son dernier voyage sur la A, ce qui correspond à la fin de la circulation de ce matériel. C'est pourquoi, durant les 15 jours précédents, une campagne sur les médias digitaux avec des photos d’époque, des histoires, anecdotes, des chiffres, le nouveau matériel qui remplace les anciens trains du RER sera mise en place. De plus, le jour même, une opération de presse sera réalisée en exclusivité, les conditions d'organisation n'étant pas encore fixées.
> 
> 
> 
> J'espère avoir pu répondre à vos attentes et vous prie d'agréer, Monsieur, mes salutations distinguées.
> 
> Cordialement,
> 
> 
> Conseiller Clientèle RATP


http://symbioz.net/forum/ouragan/messages.php?topic=5582&page=28

So the date comes from the RATP.
Because of the terror threat, they will not organise a big celebration but they will anyway put informations about MS61 and MI09 on screens.

Some people think (because rumors said that the last service will be on March 31) that the last service during the week will be on the end of March but MS61's final service will be on April 9.


----------



## Antje

According to my current search of the topic, it seems that there could be a gap between the last day of normal service 31 March and the special farewell 9 April. I am going to Paris early to avoid the crowds.


----------



## Minato ku

B 82500 run on long distance Paris-Est – Provins/La Ferté-Milon services.
These are dual-mode trains, they can be powered by diesel or overhead electrification.





Video by ErebosSan


----------



## alexandru.mircea

^isn't it going a bit slow?


----------



## Antje

Source: https://minoa.li/2016/03/ms61-logo/ (my website for sake of transparency)










If there was to be a special logo to mark the end of the MS 61, then I have one.


----------



## Antje

Saint-Maur – Créteil

RER MS 61 M.15090 at Saint-Maur – Créteil by me, on Flickr


----------



## gjergjkastrioti

Minato ku said:


> I think that only one MS61 will operate but I don't have any other information, unfortunately.
> 
> _____________________________________
> 
> Châtelet-les-Halles
> New corridor just opened.
> 
> As you may notice, finishing work is not complete.
> New shops will open there.


Isn't finished yet Chatelet Les Halles Station ??? OMG !


----------



## Antje

Chatelet Les Halles is a very busy station. This is why they just cannot close it down like what is happening to Holland Park tube station in London at present.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

^according to Wikipedia at least, it is the largest underground station in the world...


----------



## sotonsi

Antje said:


> Chatelet Les Halles is a very busy station. This is why they just cannot close it down like what is happening to Holland Park tube station in London at present.


London tube stations that are much busier than Holland Park have had lengthy closures for major upgrades.

That said they tend to close parts fully while leaving other stuff open - Tottenham Court Road was recently Central Line only, then Northern Line only, for a few months each. Bank Northern Line will be northbound-only for at least 18 months (IIRC) while they build a new southbound platform to enhance station capacity. Embankment closed both the Northern and Bakerloo line at the same time, but that's about it.


alexandru.mircea said:


> ^according to Wikipedia at least, it is the largest underground station in the world...


So lots of space to play with and keep disruption to a minimum, as they seem to be doing. (see also the massive upgrade of Kings Cross St Pancras in London).


----------



## alexandru.mircea

sotonsi said:


> So lots of space to play with


Never my impression tbh. It's been pretty painful there during the process, I've avoided it as much as I could.


----------



## Minato ku

Some video of the MS61


----------



## dimlys1994

From Railway Gazette:



> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/.../view/paris-suburban-fleet-to-be-renewed.html
> 
> *Paris suburban fleet to be renewed*
> 01 Apr 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FRANCE: Ile-de-France transport authority STIF has asked SNCF and RATP to prepare technical and financial plans, including timescales, for a wholescale renewal of the Paris suburban and RER fleet which could see 700 trainsets replaced or refurbished by 2021 at a cost of €8∙5bn.
> 
> At its meeting on March 30, the STIF board agreed to proceed with a line-by-line analysis with a view to replacing or refurbishing the existing fleet of 1 200 trainsets. STIF notes that the average age of rolling stock on the Ile-de-France network is over 20 years, with more than 200 trainsets being over 30 years old, and that most trains are ‘antiquated’ and ‘unwelcoming’, lacking wi-fi and in most cases in-car CCTV
> 
> ...


----------



## Minato ku

Châtelet-les-Halles

Renovation work of the moving walkway corridor between the RER and metro lines 1, 7 and 11.


----------



## class387

Any news on whether the MS61s are still running?


----------



## Minato ku

^^ According to several people, MS61 are still running.
MS61 have been seen in service, yesterday.


----------



## Antje

That train is like the A Stock on the Underground: it never gives up.


----------



## 00Zy99

Antje said:


> That train is like the A Stock on the Underground: it never gives up.


Or the R32 on the NYC subway. Or, well, just about anything by Budd, really.


----------



## Iron_

Minato ku said:


> Châtelet-les-Halles
> 
> Renovation work of the moving walkway corridor between the RER and metro lines 1, 7 and 11.


will the moving walkway be changed ?


----------



## Minato ku

I don't think so because the moving walkways have already been modernised. 
It is not visible externally and those are currently quite dirty because of the work.


----------



## Minato ku

*We have date for the last service of the MS61 !!!*

April 16, 2016
14:30 at La Defense (platform 1)
Train bound for Boissy.


----------



## class387

Are services running through to that day? And if yes, is it that service every day until then?


----------



## alexandru.mircea

New pics from Versailles Chantiers:
































































https://twitter.com/Versailles


----------



## Minato ku

Minato ku said:


> *We have date for the last service of the MS61 !!!*
> 
> April 16, 2016
> 14:30 at La Defense (platform 1)
> Train bound for Boissy.





class387 said:


> Are services running through to that day? And if yes, is it that service every day until then?


I don't know, I can just say that MS 61 has been spotted every day since March 31.


----------



## STEFER

Today (from Italy) I Read the horrible New. 
I'm a Fan about MS 61 Stock , especially the first Years with With and Blue Livery . I Was suggested by this Kind of Metro System called RER and this Train so Speed and Multi-funtionally , From the deepest tube Station under 3 Metro Traditional Lines (see Auber Opera) To Open Countries. A Wonderful Metro Car For Everybody, Everywhere. 

Will Miss You To Me so much , MS 61 .

I Travelled many Days confortable during my Paris Vacation . 
I Hope The RATP Will Preserve some Car , maybe with the Historical White/blue Livery , MS 61 has contributed much to the success of the RER .


----------



## Noodles7

An MS61 train being removed by truck:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2cyctqN2n8

ALso this is the final journey of the MS61:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGUt0FXkdes

Both clips are by TGVLyria on youtube


----------



## Minato ku

*La Défense*
They changed the lighting. 
The station hall is now much brighter.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

^ Looks better. Will probably have to visit tomorrow...

The company that has been changing stations to LED lights for RATP throughout the network is Romanian


----------



## 00Zy99

Wow!

An original RER core station that is actually well-lit! Amazing!


----------



## Minato ku

Melun
The end stop for the RER D and the first station of the Transilien R after Gare de Lyon


















Old Z 5300 and two level Z2N
Z 5300 run on Melun - Montereau service of the R and Juvisy - Melun service of the RER D. Both are services that don't go to Central Paris.
Z 5300 is the oldest suburban stock in service. The oldest was built in 1965 and the most recent in 1974. Those still in service are mostly from the end of the 1960s. They are being withdrawn and remplaced by Z2N.



































Transilien R to Gare de Lyon


----------



## 00Zy99

Minato, all of your images are broken.


----------



## Minato ku

Ivry-sur-Seine
It is a rather minor station, most RER C's trains skip this stop.


























A train race, trains were running at exactly the same speed.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Does anyone have he full list of the 110 of stations that will be introducing free Wifi? I keep reading about it but without the actual stations.


----------



## Minato ku

I don't find any list. 
________________________________

Video of how will be constructed Porte Maillot RER E station.
https://vimeo.com/164059244


----------



## Minato ku

The platform where I'm standing








U leaving the station








On the left, you can see a T2.








L train on the left and U train on the center.








La Défense is the last stop of the U service, the U links la Defense to Saint Quentin en Yvelines.








L train to Saint-Lazare


----------



## WilliamTR

Are these sblack signs usual on transilien lines ? I think it is the first time I see one.


----------



## 437.001

Minato ku said:


> Ivry-sur-Seine
> It is a rather minor station, most RER C's trains skip this stop.


:uh: Really? I wouldn't have guessed, being so close to Paris...

How many trains per hour does Ivry get in the morning rush and off-peak, and which are their destinations?


----------



## Minato ku

6 tph in rush hours and 4 tph off peak.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

437.001 said:


> :uh: Really? I wouldn't have guessed, being so close to Paris...


Well exactly, they're well connected there already. Only 10 minutes (on foot) away from that station there's also the metro station on the line 7. Also, a characteristic of suburbs right next to Paris is that they're well served by suburban buses, with several lines who start from the same place and share the first few kilometres until they split and go each on its own way.


----------



## VincentB_

STEFER said:


> Today (from Italy) I Read the horrible New.
> I'm a Fan about MS 61 Stock , especially the first Years with With and Blue Livery . I Was suggested by this Kind of Metro System called RER and this Train so Speed and Multi-funtionally , From the deepest tube Station under 3 Metro Traditional Lines (see Auber Opera) To Open Countries. A Wonderful Metro Car For Everybody, Everywhere.
> 
> Will Miss You To Me so much , MS 61 .
> 
> I Travelled many Days confortable during my Paris Vacation .
> I Hope The RATP Will Preserve some Car , maybe with the Historical White/blue Livery , MS 61 has contributed much to the success of the RER .


Yes, one train has been preserved in its original form (thats mean, no facelift). You can see it on the left (sorry, it was not possible to take good pictures).


----------



## sergiogiorgini

Has anyone ever come across a map or diagram of the Auber/St Lazare/Opéra complex? It's funny; Châtelet has been mapped out quite a bit, but I can't find anything on the layout of this possibly even more impressive complex.


----------



## Minato ku

There is a map of the whole complex at Auber but it is not accessible to the passengers. 
One can only see it from a distance.


----------



## OzFrog

Minato ku said:


> There is a map of the whole complex at Auber but it is not accessible to the passengers.
> One can only see it from a distance.


When I was in Paris last year, I made it a point to walk the entire length of the Havre Caumartin-Auber-Opera-Haussmann St Lazare complex. Each station is massive in its own right, but the three combined together are crazy. 

In saying that, the way out from Haussmann to Havre Caumartin is not entirely obvious, and I only found the way out after many circuits around Haussmann. So for me it was an achievement! :banana:


----------



## jack_bauer

Hi Guys. May I ask how long is underground network of RER under Paris?


----------



## Sacré Coeur

76.5 km according to Wikipedia which surprises me because I thought it was much smaller (around 40 km at first thought)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Réseau_Express_Régional


----------



## gt670dn

sergiogiorgini said:


> Has anyone ever come across a map or diagram of the Auber/St Lazare/Opéra complex? It's funny; Châtelet has been mapped out quite a bit, but I can't find anything on the layout of this possibly even more impressive complex.


I only found this


----------



## jack_bauer

Sacré Coeur said:


> 76.5 km according to Wikipedia which surprises me because I thought it was much smaller (around 40 km at first thought)
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Réseau_Express_Régional


Maybe they consider this 76,5 km as a single track lenght?


----------



## sergiogiorgini

gt670dn said:


> I only found this


It hardly helps, does it! It really is dizzying.

Together with the Bank/Monument complex in London, this is the only station where I find it's better to head to the surface and then back down again than to find your connecting train underground.


----------



## VincentB_

sergiogiorgini said:


> Has anyone ever come across a map or diagram of the Auber/St Lazare/Opéra complex? It's funny; Châtelet has been mapped out quite a bit, but I can't find anything on the layout of this possibly even more impressive complex.


----------



## ed24

RER C closed from Javel to Austerlitz starting from 4pm local due to floods - St Michel and Invalides already closed


----------



## LeGrandParis

We were waiting for it :bash:
Damn, hope the overflow won't be too much, and they can fix the casualties quickly. Too many people depends on this very line to move in the metropolis.
Also, it is to be one of the major line of Eurocup, for it will pass near many fanzones.


----------



## Neric007

They say water level is gonna be very slow to go down so I'm afraid it's gonna take time before Line C reopens.


----------



## Bren

RER E extension


----------



## Minato ku

Neric007 said:


> They say water level is gonna be very slow to go down so I'm afraid it's gonna take time before Line C reopens.


RER C central section reopened last Friday.


----------



## Minato ku

Preparatory work under Boulevard Haussmann for the RER E western extension.


----------



## 00Zy99

Are there any plans to separate B and D?

What about a RER Line F? Has anybody conceived any possible corridors for such a line?


----------



## Minato ku

There are some plans to built a new tunnel for the RER D but not on short or medium term period.
I don't think that there will be a RER F.


----------



## Bbox77

The last study showed that the construction is not planned as of today : 

The construction would require a 9-12 month interruption for both RER B & D between Gare du Nord and Gare De lyon during a hypothetical construction. It also mean less train during that period. 

The construction work would be very complex due to the busy underground around Châtelet.

Is has been said that the future lines would be enough to decrease the number of passenger transiting via both of those lines, also by adding a CBTC system to the central part of the RER B.


----------



## VincentB_

Minato ku said:


> There are some plans to built a new tunnel for the RER D but not on short or medium term period.
> I don't think that there will be a RER F.


The RER F would have been a line between Montpanasse and Saint Lazare.

It was briefly mentionned in early stages in the 60s but it was too costly. The Line 13 of the metro was built instead (the line 13 is the result of the fusion of two lines formerly numbered 13 and 14 that were reunited in the 70s and follow the same path). The line F will probably not be built but this projet resurfaced periodically.

However, it would be a good thing 'cause the line 13 is totally overcrowded (to go from Saint Lazare to Montarnasse with luggages can be epic) and because the access to Montparnasse railway station from the subway is really laborious (the subway stations are in fact very far away from the railway station and people have to walk for a long time in an undergroud maze full of stairs with their bags...).


---------------

Former _La Muette_ railway station, now closed ; croatian supporters in the front :











It's now a restaurant. It's on a closed section of the _Petite Ceinture_ and is very close to Boulainvilliers RER station :


----------



## Minato ku

They are beginning to replace the tickets gates liking to Châtelet metro station at Châtelet-les-Halles.


----------



## 00Zy99

I am strongly reminded of the webcomic Megatokyo and its Ph34rb0ts.


----------



## Minato ku

Maisons-Alfort - Alfortville
Platforms have been heightened and new entrance is being built.


----------



## 00Zy99

They're finally making an attempt to standardize platforms nation-wide, correct?


----------



## alexandru.mircea

I tried to use the wi-fi they keep banging on about in my station, it doesn't work.  It connects but then nothing happens. 

Also a question: are the guys in "SNCF Securité" gendarmes allocated to the SNCF, or are they hired directly by the SNCF? Or maybe a private security force contracted by the SNCF? Cheers


----------



## Minato ku

They are directly hired by the SNCF.
They have limited police power just like the Municipal police force, they can carry gun. Their field of action is limited to the SNCF network.
The RATP network has the same with RATP securité.

About Wifi, you should look if it does not require to create a login.
That's my case.



00Zy99 said:


> They're finally making an attempt to standardize platforms nation-wide, correct?


900mm for the Parisian suburban network (Transilien) but it will take a lot of time before all the stations will be up to this standard.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Rail Journal:



> http://www.railjournal.com/index.ph...-modernisation-plan-approved.html?channel=537
> 
> *Paris suburban rail modernisation approved*
> Monday, July 11, 2016
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _THE board of Île-de-France transport authority Stif has approved a €2.1bn 15-year plan for the modernisation of the group of Transilien suburban lines east of Paris together with improvements to the eastern section of RER Line E_
> 
> The plan proposes a number of short, medium and long-term measures to cope with rising passenger numbers, which increased by 3.8% per year between 2010 and 2015 on Transilien Line P services from Paris Est and 2.4% per year between 2008 and 2012 on RER Line E
> 
> ...


----------



## Minato ku

Saint-Michel - Notre-Dame


----------



## FabriFlorence

I've a question. I don't understand why the RER A cross Porte Maillot without stops.

IMO it's illogical because lacks a direct link between RER A and C lines and to change these lines you have to use the metro, that is not comfortable at all (especially with luggages during the rush hours).


----------



## Minato ku

When the section between La Defense and Charles de Gaulle Etoile opened in 1971, Neuilly Porte Maillot was a station of the Auteuil line, a small line with a low ridership.
RER C didn't exist back then and Neuilly Porte Maillot station only became part of the RER C when the VMI branch opened in 1988.

In the 1960s when the RER A was planned, Porte Maillot was not a big hub like today.


----------



## FabriFlorence

^^ I understand, but when the the Auteuil line became part of the RER C, the RATP could add one station in Neuilly Porte Maillot for RER A to create a link. They did it for RER B when in 1988 was added the Saint-Michel station to connect RER B and C lines.


----------



## Minato ku

The space for Saint-Michel Notre-Dame was already built. 
The station only opened in 1988 because the older trains were not powerful enough to climb the slope after a stop there. 
Old Z 23000 were retired in 1987.

At Porte Maillot, work would have been to complicated for a station with a moderate ridership.


----------



## Minato ku

Pierrefitte - Stains
Construction of new platforms.
To allow transfer with the Tangentielle Nord or Tram Express line 11, platforms of Pierrefitte - Stains will be moved south.
The two side platforms will be replaced by an island platform

Current platforms








New platform under construction


----------



## Minato ku

Châtelet - Les Halles
Renovation work is far from finished but we see some changes

New ticket gates, in the hall linking to Chatelet metro station, are in operation.

















Old ticket gates are being removed








New signages

















New tiles in the platform hall


----------



## Minato ku

Preliminary work near La Defense for the western extension

Drilling for pumping groundwater


----------



## Nexis

A RER video from Timosha21


*RER Trains in Paris, France*


----------



## Minato ku

*This is it!* The central section of the RER A (La Defense - Nation) is closed for one month.

Chatelet-les-Halles

Access to the platform of the line A are blocked.








Work train parked on westbound line A platform


----------



## gt670dn

How much of the stations is locked down/inaccessible, due to the construction? I hope Auber is still open for transfering.


----------



## Minato ku

^^ Just the platforms of RER A at Châtelet les Halles.
Auber is still open for transferring.

___________________________________








Gare du Nord

Gare du Nord by Minato ku, sur Flickr


----------



## Minato ku

Around Rosa Park station.

Enlargement work of Rue d'Aubervilliers under the tracks









Tram T3b and Petite Ceinture tracks


----------



## VincentB_

Minato ku said:


> Around Rosa Park station.
> 
> [...]


I had the same idea :lol:

(warning 56k !)


----------



## 00Zy99

What is so particularly costly about Saint Lazaire-Montparnasse for a new RER line?


----------



## VincentB_

00Zy99 said:


> What is so particularly costly about Saint Lazaire-Montparnasse for a new RER line?


The cost of a RER line under Paris is horrendous. Such a line connects two suburban networks ; then the tunnel has to make use of the UIC loading gauge ; that means, more or less 8,70 m wide. The composition of the soil does not help.

We already have to pay for the Grand Paris Express and the extension of the RER E, and other cities in France have needs ; taxpayers have their limits. 

-----------------

_Porte Maillot_ (RER C) :



On the left, the Palais des congrès, probably the ugliest building in Paris. In the background, the Hyatt hotel (a close second).


----------



## 00Zy99

So, just general "big project in Paris" costs, then? No particular engineering challenges on that exact route?

...and the Pompidou is third?


----------



## Minato ku

00Zy99 said:


> So, just general "big project in Paris" costs, then? No particular engineering challenges on that exact route?


We don't really know because no major planning has been ever made.

This line would have to pass under several large underground hubs, under 11 to 12 underground lines and several times under line 13.
It would have to pass under the Seine river, many underground structures (car parks, sewers, pipes, underground cooling network, underground river...) the area around Saint-Lazare is particuliary crowded. 
There are groundwater and many other difficulties about Paris' soil. The protection of protection of major buildings in the surface, digging with TBM can damage buildings.

I think there would be engineering challenges to built this line.
Simple cut and cover work is not possible in Central Paris.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

alserrod said:


> Rapt webpage runs perfect for me, allowing to have a great deal of information, even journey times (incluiding shuttles and so on) except..... Ile de France point to point fares!!!! It doesn't run at all


Indeed, there does seem to be some sort of bug related to station names. I kept trying until I got the information. So, one full price ticket from Paris to Marne-la-Vallée-Chessy is 7.6 euro and if you buy 10 it costs 60.8 euro instead of 76. So if you buy two "packs" of 10 (121.6 euro) instead of 18 single tickets (136.8 euro) you save 15.2 euro.

If you buy 6 reduced price tickets the total is 3.8 x 6 = 22.8 euro. The "pack" of 10 would cost 30.4 euro. So in this case it is better to buy the individual tickets.


----------



## alserrod

thank you very much for info. So, 2 "10 carnet" for adults and 6 single tickets for children then.


More questions:
Departing from Paris, should I start on a metro station, what should I ask for a shuttle to RER in the price (I do not know what to do... 300m to nearest metro station and 1 km to RER station on foot)

Departing TO Paris, is it enough to use a "zone 1-5" ticket and use it until metro station?


----------



## alexandru.mircea

The use of the metro inside Paris is included in the price of the RER ticket from Paris to Marne-la-Valée. So the best option is to take the metro to the RER station, with the same ticket. You descend to the nearest metro station and there you can buy the ticket for Marne-la-Valée (either at a ticket office or an automatic machine, for which you need a bank card). 

When coming back from Disney, you can do the same in reverse, you can change fom RER to metro with the same ticket.


----------



## alserrod

And I guess I have to point RER tickets or so in machines, not only metro to be wrong.

I really do not know what to do... 300m to a station plus one metro journey and RER or 1 km to a direct RER station. Maybe depending of how tired I will be


----------



## Resss

I think you're asking yourself too many questions. ^^

As alexandru and I said, metro is included in your RER ticket if you start or end your trip in Paris. Knowing that, it's your choice to use the métro or to walk to the RER station.

Between metro and RER you'll come across machines with barriers to control your ticket, you can't miss these machines. So just keep your ticket until your final destination : at Marne-la-Vallée you'll also need your ticket to exit the station.


----------



## VincentB_

Still searching for pics of classic trains on the central section of the RER A....  

I found both of these recently.

A CC 40100 at _Gare de Lyon_ in 1977 or 1978 (Source : _Chemins de Fer_) :



Two TGVs PSE at _Chatelet_ in 1986 (Source : _La Vie du Rail_) :


----------



## alserrod

alexandru.mircea said:


> Indeed, there does seem to be some sort of bug related to station names. I kept trying until I got the information. So, one full price ticket from Paris to Marne-la-Vallée-Chessy is 7.6 euro and if you buy 10 it costs 60.8 euro instead of 76. So if you buy two "packs" of 10 (121.6 euro) instead of 18 single tickets (136.8 euro) you save 15.2 euro.
> 
> If you buy 6 reduced price tickets the total is 3.8 x 6 = 22.8 euro. The "pack" of 10 would cost 30.4 euro. So in this case it is better to buy the individual tickets.


Got it.

Finally... 2 10 packs for adult plus 4 children single tickets (last two adult tickets were used for child......)


Easy to buy with the exemption that from Ile de France to Paris I was looking for station name in a wrong screen in the machine instead of Paris.


----------



## STEFER

VincentB_ said:


> Still searching for pics of classic trains on the central section of the RER A....
> 
> I found both of these recently.
> 
> A CC 40100 at _Gare de Lyon_ in 1977 or 1978 (Source : _Chemins de Fer_) :
> 
> 
> 
> Two TGVs PSE at _Chatelet_ in 1986 (Source : _La Vie du Rail_) :


:nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts:
WONDERFUL !!! TGV in Service Terminus within The RER at CHATELET LES HALLES (At That Time, The Greatest Metro Station in The World) !!! 
WHY This Idea Doesn't Go On ? 
I Imagine a TGV Service for Examble Between Rome Termini Central Zone and Paris Chatelet Les Halles Directly .. Woooww !!! :nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts:


----------



## 00Zy99

STEFER said:


> WONDERFUL !!! TGV in Service Terminus within The RER at CHATELET LES HALLES (At That Time, The Greatest Metro Station in The World) !!!
> WHY This Idea Doesn't Go On ?
> I Imagine a TGV Service for Examble Between Rome Termini Central Zone and Paris Chatelet Les Halles Directly .. Woooww !!!


The RER A traffic is too heavy to fit in any additional services of different types.

PS-please cut back on the smilies. It is rather distracting, and it makes me dizzy.


----------



## dougdoug

Line E extension and new station










with a Hangar acoustic for the tunnel boring machine and extraction


----------



## dougdoug

Big New exit Margueritte de Navarre for metro and rer (Les Halles, central) will open probably next week


----------



## alexandru.mircea

I was wondering, are there any customer satisfaction surveys where one can see the users' attitudes towards the lines run by SNCF and those run by RATP? From my experience I would suspect that SNCF is the better provider but I'd rather have a better perspective.


----------



## mrsmartman

dougdoug said:


> Line E extension and new station


Will 2 platforms be sufficient for the station?


----------



## Minato ku

Normally it should be sufficient but only the future could answer.
Anyway RER E will follow the route of the RER A and new subway line will also be added at la Defense.
The transit capacity at la Defense will significally increase.


----------



## sergiogiorgini

alexandru.mircea said:


> I was wondering, are there any customer satisfaction surveys where one can see the users' attitudes towards the lines run by SNCF and those run by RATP? From my experience I would suspect that SNCF is the better provider but I'd rather have a better perspective.


I think any Parisian will tell you the RATP lines are superior. The SNCF's lines include the "Trash RER" D and the slow, antiquated line that's only popular with tourists heading for Versailles: RER C.


----------



## LTA1992

sergiogiorgini said:


> I think any Parisian will tell you the RATP lines are superior. The SNCF's lines include the "Trash RER" D and the slow, antiquated line that's only popular with tourists heading for Versailles: RER C.


I only got to ride RER routes A, B, and C and I can definitely say A and B are superior to C. Never got to ride routes D and E so that irks me.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

sergiogiorgini said:


> I think any Parisian will tell you the RATP lines are superior. The SNCF's lines include the "Trash RER" D and the slow, antiquated line that's only popular with tourists heading for Versailles: RER C.



Actually, I follow closely the accounts of a few user associations from the Western side of the network and I can say that while they hate both of them, they certainly hate RATP more than SNCF, because of how the RATP section of RER A is run. It helps that line L, which was having the worst timetable reliability in the entire network, has been visibly improving since 2016. Overall, I can say that I seem to be very lucky for living near my branch of line J instead of living near the RER A and having to rely on it. 

But this only covers the Western side of the network and I am also interested in more than just train timetable reliability and saturation issues, I am also keen on, for example, the upkeep of stations (reliability and intervention times for elevators, escalators, screens, ticket machines), accessibility, cleanliness, availability of staff, security... Also I would prefer to disregard the aspects that do not fall in the responsability of the operators but in that of the authorities (STIF), like general planning, infrastructure works or the aquisition of new trains (or rennovation of old ones). 

This all is interesting not only because I'd like to ground my own perceptions in a wider perspective, but because these two will compete for the right to run Grand Paris Express, which is a huge deal.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

This has probably been posted before, but I just found it for the first time: the live map of each SNCF train: http://www.sncf.com/fr/geolocalisation?data-map-livemap-infotexts=CT|TRANSILIEN 

Fascinating.


----------



## Suburbanist

Are there plans to build physically integrated connections between RER C Avenue Foch and M2 Porte Dauphine; between RER C Musée d'Osray and M12 Solferino; and between RER C Javel and M10 Andrè Citroën?


----------



## VincentB_

Suburbanist said:


> Are there plans to build physically integrated connections between RER C Avenue Foch and M2 Porte Dauphine; between RER C Musée d'Osray and M12 Solferino; and between RER C Javel and M10 Andrè Citroën?


No. And that would not really make sense :

- _Foch_ and _Javel_ are very close from the métro stations entrances ; such a link would be useless, i think ; and there's no space available underground between _Foch_ and _Porte Dauphine_ (an undergroud footpath would have to be deep underground to cross the tracks of the RER) ; 

- the distance between _Musée d'Orsay_ and _Solférino_ is far too important (but a better signage would be useful, especially for foreigners ! Many tourists get lost between the two stations...) 


The real "missing link" is between _Austerlitz_ and _Gare de Lyon_ ; but an underground footpath is not an option : the distance is too important and such a tunnel - under the river Seine - would be very costly ; there's a project for a gondola lift ; and automatic shuttles were tested a few weeks ago : 

http://france3-regions.francetvinfo...ffeur-entre-austerlitz-gare-lyon-1181797.html


----------



## 00Zy99

What do you mean by "the distance is too important" between Orsay and Solferino? Do you mean that it is too far?


----------



## VincentB_

00Zy99 said:


> What do you mean by "the distance is too important" between Orsay and Solferino? Do you mean that it is too far?


Yes, you have to walk 5/10 minutes.


----------



## FabriFlorence

VincentB_ said:


> No. And that would not really make sense :
> 
> The real "missing link" is between _Austerlitz_ and _Gare de Lyon_ ; but an underground footpath is not an option : the distance is too important and such a tunnel - under the river Seine - would be very costly ; there's a project for a gondola lift ; and automatic shuttles were tested a few weeks ago :
> 
> http://france3-regions.francetvinfo...ffeur-entre-austerlitz-gare-lyon-1181797.html


An extension of line 10 till Gare de Lyon (may be with an elevated viaduct over the Seine) is not a viable option?


----------



## Estourbi

An extension of line 10 is already planned (around 2027.) It is to follow the river, service the new ZAC Rive Gauche "quartier" (Chevaleret and Bibliothèque François Mitterand stations) and then the suburban city of Ivry-sur-Seine (Bruneseau-Massèna and Ivry-Gambetta stations.)










Besides crossing the river for that line would be an engineering nightmare. If it were to go underground, it would have to make a U turn underneath the river while dodging the many underground infrastructures in the vicinity (including RER C and D, line 1, line 14 and old unused metro tracks called: Voie des Finances.)
As for going overground, it would be just as difficult and would entail destroying buildings that are either brand new or still under construction hno:


----------



## Neric007

Extending line 10 towards Gare de Lyon doesn't really make sense indeed. The driverless shuttle is the way to go I think, but it's a shame they didn't think about it while redesigning the public space in front of Austerlitz. Had they made a slope coming from the bridge, a shuttle could have easily started from the entrance of Austerlitz and go straight towards Gare de Lyon.


----------



## Minato ku

New automatic operation on the central section of the RER A.













> *ATO goes live on Paris RER Line A*
> 10 May 2017
> 
> FRANCE: The first trainset fitted with automatic train operation equipment started running on part of Paris RER Line A on April 27. The MI09 electric multiple-unit has been running under automatic operation between Nanterre-Préfecture, Val-de-Fontenay and Fontenay-sous-Bois.
> 
> In January 2015 RATP, STIF and the Ile-de-France region selected Alstom to supply ATO equipment under a €20m contract in what the supplier says is the first application of the technology to a heavy rail line. Alstom’s Saint-Ouen and Villeurbanne sites are involved in the work.
> 
> ATO that meets Grade of Automation 2 — attended automatic operation with a driver present — will be installed on the Line A fleet of 183 MI2N and MI09 EMUs by November 2018. This will be overlaid on the existing SACEM, which monitors train speed and headways and provides a form of quasi moving block with ‘distance-to-go’ cab signalling overlaid on the lineside fixed blocks. Retrofitting the trains with ATO is intended to reduce the variability in performance associated with manual driving.
> 
> Line A currently carries 1·2 million passengers a day. The new signalling will allow commercial speeds to increase by 5 km/h, which is expected to offer savings of around 2 min on the average journey between Vincennes and La Défense. Headways will also be shortened.


http://www.metro-report.com/news/single-view/view/ato-goes-live-on-paris-rer-line-a.html


----------



## 00Zy99

At this point, I would consider quad-tracking RER A to be a viable option.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Catastrophic month of March for RER B in terms of punctuality:










The green line is the 2017 average so far.

The CEOs of both RATP and SNCF have both been summoned to the authorities for explanations.

https://twitter.com/Asso_usagersidf/status/864506000908443648


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Temporary bar on top of the Gare de l'Est:





































https://twitter.com/MathiasVicherat/status/870324783178821635


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Nice, the STIF wants to start an electric bike sharing system to complement public transport. The project will be analysed this June in the next STIF meeting. The system will be centred around bike parkings built next to railway stations. 

http://france3-regions.francetvinfo...-longue-duree-bientot-ile-france-1263781.html


----------



## dimlys1994

From The Local

https://www.thelocal.fr/20170612/paris-commuter-trains-to-no-longer-called-rer

*Paris commuter service to change name from 'RER' to... 'train'*
12 June 2017, 16:34










_Commuters in Paris will soon never have to catch another "RER" train again in their lives, with transport chiefs to get rid of the name, that has become synonymous with delays, breakdowns and strikes_

Transport unions in the greater Paris region of Ile-de-France are planning to scrap the name "RER" from the city's commuter train service.

The current RER services link Paris to its suburbs via various lines: RER A, RER B, RER C, RER D and RER E

...


----------



## Antje

Stif has been running their own set of Metro+Train icons for quite a while. I think that might be what will replace them.


----------



## Neric007

The Stif actually contradicted this piece of news.

Although they admit they've been working on a potential way of rationalizing the different names used for the different types of transportation, it's only been a study so far and nothing is enacted, especially when it comes to the RER.


----------



## sergiogiorgini

^^ Source? Because they seem to be implementing this new identity. It was on Tram 11 as well.

The implementation for such an expansive system will be an enormous feat though; consider the fact that there is still early-'90s-style signage around (with all-capital letters). Will they manage to update all signage in the Île-de-France in such a short time? Will the RATP keep its own style signage or will the SNCF and RATP finally use the same signs? It should be interesting for sure.

Good luck changing this, for example...


----------



## Neric007

I'm talking about replacing the name RER by simply "Train".

http://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-finance/services/transport-logistique/transports-pas-question-pour-le-moment-de-changer-l-appellation-rer-en-ile-de-france-737414.html

As far as signage is concerned, here again, nothing is really sure about what will be done, how, and when.


----------



## dimlys1994




----------



## Woonsocket54

They should just rename RER as TGV, considering that TGV is being renamed ennui.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

The EU has approved a financing of 1.3bn euro for the Charles de Gaulle Express. 

http://bfmbusiness.bfmtv.com/entrep...-l-ue-valide-l-aide-de-la-france-1195037.html


----------



## dougdoug

Line E, West extension with 3 new stations,here Cnit station under construction















and more information with nice pictures:

http://www.rer-eole.fr/

http://www.rer-eole.fr/app/uploads/2017/06/20170620-Comité-de-suivi-de-chantier-EPADESA.pdf


----------



## dougdoug

extension line E


----------



## sergiogiorgini

Yes I just explained that.


----------



## VincentB_

ssiguy2 said:


> Without going back and reading 100 pages, what exactly is the difference between RER and suburban rail? Is suburban rail what people in NA would call commuter rail that runs primarily or only in rush hour? In NA a RER-type system IS suburban rail.


There's no real difference. What defines RER is the fact that the lines runs through the city and are part of the urban network, thats's all.

Apart from that, RER and Transilien uses quite the same rolling stock, sometimes share the same tracks, and both of them runs all day long. In some cases you even have a choice ; as an exemple, you have access to the castle in Versailles with the RER C, the Transilien U (from La Defense) or the Transilien N (from Montparnasse), or even the transilien L (from Saint Lazare). 

All RER lines are former suburban lines.

______________________________

Dourdan (RER C) :



Nightfall after à 20 km hike :


----------



## ssiguy2

Is the RER completely grade separated? If so, why isn't it just called "Metro"?


----------



## FabriFlorence

ssiguy2 said:


> Is the RER completely grade separated? If so, why isn't it just called "Metro"?


Because it isn't a metro. Also the Berlin S-Bahn is completely grade separated from the national railway network and offers a metro-like service. But it's not called Metro.

Anyway, I think that in the RER only A and B lines are completely grade separated from the national railway network. Lines C, D and E aren't.


----------



## Sacré Coeur

Actually, only the RATP network (western part of RER A and southern part of RER B) is grade separated. No other train services use these tracks. The other lines are operated by SNCF and use the RFN (Réseau Ferré National) tracks which are shared with other Transilien lines, national lines and freight.


----------



## FabriFlorence

sergiogiorgini said:


> It is suburban rail, but Paris has two types of suburban rail. The Transilien network is the "old" network that terminates at the major railway stations around the city (forcing most to change to Métro or RER there); the RER is a network of lines that dive underneath the city, connecting suburbs on either end. There are plans to rebrand both as simply "trains", but I doubt that'll happen any time soon. The distinction is useful.


IMO is more efficient the german S-Bahn system (specially
in Berlin, Hamburg and Munich) where all the suburban rail lines cross the city on underground (or overground) without ending at the major railway stations. 

I've never understood why the Transilien lines are not converted into RER lines. It would be enough join the Transilien and RER line and convey the Transilien trains in the existing RER tunnels.


----------



## sergiogiorgini

^^ You are gravely underestimating passenger demand in Paris. The central sections of the RER are either very near capacity or, in the case of line A, over it. There's no way they could handle the entire Transilien network on top of that.

The only way to do that is with more tunnels, as they are doing now with the line E extension. Which is costly, difficult, time-consuming...

There is also the fact that German cities are smaller, and were smaller in the 19th Century, enabling them to build lines along the built-up areas that were still within walking distance to the historic cores. Paris and London had to do with terminus stations which bored as far into the cities as possible.


----------



## Attus

FabriFlorence said:


> It would be enough join the Transilien and RER line and convey the Transilien trains in the existing RER tunnels.


Sorry, but I think (no, actually I'm sure) you have no idea what you talk about.


----------



## SSCreader

FabriFlorence said:


> I've never understood why the Transilien lines are not converted into RER lines. It would be enough join the Transilien and RER line and convey the Transilien trains in the existing RER tunnels.


The current works include the conversion of some transilien lines to RER, as the extension of the E line will take over the route of some of the J transiliens.

In the original plan, the D line was supposed to take over some of the North and South-East suburban lines, share the A tunnel between Gare de Lyon and Les Halles, and then the B tunnel to Gare du Nord. In the end, only the B tunnel is shared, and this is the weakest point of the network, transmitting any problem on one line along both RER lines. To improve on the current situation, there is a project to rework the signalling to support 40 trains per hour per direction in the tunnel.


----------



## ssiguy2

When I say grade separated I don't mean with other trains but rather from all road and pedestrian interaction.


----------



## 437.001

ssiguy2 said:


> When I say grade separated I don't mean with other trains but rather from all road and pedestrian interaction.


Overall yes, there are no level crossings (as we call them in Europe), but I think there's still some sparse ones left here and there.

St Germain en Laye GC Transilien, I think... and some other I'm forgetting.

The La Ferté-Milon branch, I'd say. At least La Ferté-Milon station doesn't have an underpass or overpass, passengers have to cross the tracks.

Correct me what I may have missed.


----------



## chakde_india

SSCreader said:


> The floor height for the doors on MI09 trains is 1200mm, and the platforms on line A are at around 1100mm. It is the same platform height on the south of the B line.
> 
> For everything else, there is no clean answer. You have three generic types: low, middle and high platform. Low usually means 550m, but you have some curved stations at 320mm. Middle is 760mm, high is 920mm. Each line uses trains that are adapted to the existing mix of platforms.


Thanks a ton SSCreader !


----------



## arctic_carlos

ssiguy2 said:


> When I say grade separated I don't mean with other trains but rather from all road and pedestrian interaction.


But if we only apply this criterion, hundreds of km of rail lines across Europe, especially close to large cities like Berlin, London, Paris or Madrid, should be classified as "metro" even though other factors, like the above mentioned, make them incompatible with usual metro standards (namely sharing tracks with freight and long-distance trains, or having branches at each end where there's only a train every 20 minutes).


----------



## VincentB_

The parisian network is a patchwork of different styles.

_Saint Lazare_, the junction between the recent entrance to the RER E station and the old metro footpath :


----------



## alexandru.mircea

RER E coach with an African art visual theme:










https://twitter.com/Lepicard1986/status/908371784847826944


----------



## parcdesprinces

^^what was the purpose? An expo at Orsay Museum or something? :dunno:


----------



## SSCreader

An article in french about this.

This train on RER line E has been decorated this way in cooperation with the Musée du quai Branly - Jacques Chirac, to present a part of teh museum's collection. It is the fifth suburban train thus decorated, with different themes for each train (Versailles on RER C, Impressionistes on Transilien J, Cinema on RER D, and Rambouillet's palace & forest on Transilien N).

According to the article, passengers like those decorations, and there are fewer graffiti to clean on decorated trains.

Decorated trains are a side effect of the anti-graffiti methods used in Paris. Vinyl adhesives with solid colors cover walls and ceilings inside recent trains. They are easy to clean, and easy to replace if cleanup is impossible. By printing a pattern on those adhesives, you can apply this type of decoration, and it probably does not cost much more than the standard cleanup process.


----------



## parcdesprinces

^^ Thanks for the answer & the article!
(Oh and BTW when I wrote _Orsay Museum_ I had Quai Branly one in mind actually. My bad :wallbash


----------



## MK Tom

Sacré Coeur said:


> Actually, only the RATP network (western part of RER A and southern part of RER B) is grade separated. No other train services use these tracks. The other lines are operated by SNCF and use the RFN (Réseau Ferré National) tracks which are shared with other Transilien lines, national lines and freight.


No other services use the western part of RER A? There are Transilien services to Cergy during the peaks...


----------



## MK Tom

arctic_carlos said:


> But if we only apply this criterion, hundreds of km of rail lines across Europe, especially close to large cities like Berlin, London, Paris or Madrid, should be classified as "metro" even though other factors, like the above mentioned, make them incompatible with usual metro standards (namely sharing tracks with freight and long-distance trains, or having branches at each end where there's only a train every 20 minutes).


Those definitions are of limited helpfulness too though - parts of the London Underground share tracks with long distance national rail and freight services too for example. Ultimately definitions blur at the boundaries, and the RER is one example of that. I would class it as a hybrid between suburban rail and metro - and I'd class Thameslink and Crossrail in London to be the same. In fact I see each of those as a London version of the RER.


----------



## MK Tom

During my visit to Paris this weekend I had cause to use RER-A several times as my girlfriend's family lives near Cergy. I was quite astonished by the low frequency of the trains, leading to heavy overcrowding like this scene I saw at Nanterre:









(full photo gallery from the trip here: https://mkttransportphoto.smugmug.com/2017/September-2017/Paris-21-24-September-2017 )

At one point homing back to Cergy on the Saturday evening there was only one train in half an hour going that way. I've been to Paris before so I'm familiar with what transport there is like, but the level of overcrowding on RER-A really astonished me.


----------



## parcdesprinces

^^ Tss...suburban people/_banleusards_... hno: 
(Cergy (?), does this town even exist, I'm sure you just invented it!)


:troll:


(just teasing, sorry :runaway


----------



## sotonsi

MK Tom said:


> Those definitions are of limited helpfulness too though - parts of the London Underground share tracks with long distance national rail and freight services too for example. Ultimately definitions blur at the boundaries, and the RER is one example of that. I would class it as a hybrid between suburban rail and metro - and I'd class Thameslink and Crossrail in London to be the same. In fact I see each of those as a London version of the RER.


London is where all French (or German) neat categories come to die. Don't try and fit London's network into those categories, nor other cities into London's nebulous categories - it just doesn't work. 


MK Tom said:


> During my visit to Paris this weekend I had cause to use RER-A several times as my girlfriend's family lives near Cergy. I was quite astonished by the low frequency of the trains, leading to heavy overcrowding like this scene I saw at Nanterre


Double-decker trains suffer from the problems that the old A stock had in London (ditto many mainline trains serving metro/suburban routes in London) - designed for high seating capacity, but isn't easy to walk through and doesn't have high standing capacity and thus lower capacity (obviously the second deck reduces this problem, while making other issues worse) and longer dwell times.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Yeah the service offered to commuters on the Western branches of A and L (in particular for locations further away such as Poissy or Cergy) is quite behind what it should be in terms of frequency, capacity, quality of rolling stock and reliability of time tables. The driver exchange at Nanterre on the RER is also making people mad. The only good news recently for this side of the network is the introduction of Z50000s (to replace completely the old rolling stock) on the Saint-Nom branch of line L. The Versailles branch of L is next if I remember correctly. 

That said, for coming home to Cergy from Paris there is also the option of taking line L from Auber. That branch also has a one train per thirty minutes frequency on a Saturday night. There is also a L line train connecting Cergy to Houilles, but that one is more useful when coming from Cergy to Paris.


----------



## Attus

Hello, do you agree, that it is RER A, station Charles de Gaulle - Étoile, in the early 80's?


----------



## parcdesprinces

^^ Yep, it is! (and indeed, seems to be taken in the 80s)


----------



## alexandru.mircea

New train liveries:





































https://twitter.com/switchi93/status/919520008019042304


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Recent pics from the works at the viaduct in Marly-le-Roi:














































https://twitter.com/Patrick_Jeantet


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Pic of the Bécon-les-Bruyères station at night, seen from the new pedestrian overpass (Courbevoie end):










The overpass is now the only way to get from one side of the station to the other, as the subterranean path has been closed on the Asnières side for the rennovation of the buildings, entrances etc and the building of the new pavillion, which are now supposed to be completed by next June (initial date was this November). 

The overpass looks really beautiful at night, now, without all the fences around the elevators, I need to get around to shoot my own pics.


----------



## sergiogiorgini

^^ So the Île-de-France Mobilités changes are happening. I suppose this means the RER name will disappear after all.

http://www.ville-rail-transports.com/politique/ile-de-france-mobilites-va-safficher-en-bleu/


----------



## Heavyduty

Great updates on Paris RER trains


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Here is a very suggestive annimated video that shows what's happening with the viaduct in Marly-le-Roi:






The animation is easy to understand even if the narration is in French. The actual operation is even more complex than I had thought!

And some more pics:





































https://twitter.com/GroupeSNCF/status/919909755539329024


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Coming back to the poor service on the Western branches dedicated to Cergy, Poissy etc. as discussed on the previous page, there are good news! First is that on December 1st, a new improved timetable for both Line A and L will become operational. Overnight testing of the new frequencies have been done during the Nuit Blanche.

Secondly, the Cergy station will be expanded with a new (and fourth) track that will be completed in about a year, and will help a huge lot to prevent delays and to potentially further increase the frequencies. This video shows how the management of the trains will improve: https://malignel.transilien.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/171002_RATP_NouvelleVoie.mp4?_=1

Detailed source article in French: https://malignel.transilien.com/2017/10/04/va-changer-4eme-voie-de-cergy/


----------



## alexandru.mircea

And a nice historical pic:



> Petite Ceinture ferroviaire , La rue des Orteaux , Paris 1956


https://twitter.com/alcarbon68/status/915332566630137857


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Train delays in the entire network (both RATP and SNCF):










https://twitter.com/transportshaker/status/922358634851590144

Full colour segments represent january to june 2017 while the pointed segments just bellow represent the same period, but in 2016.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

GRRRRRRR










https://twitter.com/GhCollinet/status/921372707614322689


----------



## alexandru.mircea

The new Regio 2N trains for Line R:























































https://maligner.transilien.com/2017/10/23/regio-2n-nouveau-train/

42 trains have been bought, costing the region an amount of 589M euro. The first five of these news trains have been allocated for line R to start in December. 

Some of the equipments:

- air conditioning
- floor heating
- electrical outlets 
- antigraphitti surfaces 
- 25 video cameras per train etc


----------



## alexandru.mircea

The *Poissy* station, branded to show the richness of its heritage:



















https://twitter.com/MichaelLeguebe/status/920957292543139841




























https://twitter.com/Actu_Transilien/status/921031093809221632


----------



## Minato ku

Work on RER E extension caused a break in a water pipe. This flooded the RER A tunnel under Porte Maillot.
Traffic is suspended on RER A between Auber and La Défense.

https://twitter.com/laurentgallois/status/925035069185712128


----------



## alexandru.mircea

This is a bit wow:



> RER - Station Châtelet les Halles - Sculptures: IIlio Signori - Bas relief: Trémois
> Cartes Postale


https://twitter.com/WaldoKanto/status/921686755845296128

The architectural choices from back then make sense when seeing such pics, it looked good. The level of neglect / indifference for the station to reach the state in which it is now in not even a handful of decades must have been really high.


----------



## VincentB_

_Bellevue_ (Transilien N) :


----------



## alexandru.mircea

Line L: the *Bécon-les-Bruyères* station on the Asnières side has been ready like this for a few months now, with only the furbishing at the inside to be done. It is the re-doing of the public square in front of it that's been delayed (was initially planned to be finished in June). It will look fantastic nevertheless. 


IMG_20181006_193435 by Alexandru Mircea, on Flickr


IMG_20181006_193445 by Alexandru Mircea, on Flickr


IMG_20181001_162304 by Alexandru Mircea, on Flickr


----------



## VincentB_

Coverage over the tracks between _BFM_ and former _Masséna_ stations (RER C).

When I was young, this part of the line was completely overgound !


----------



## VincentB_

_Montgeron - Crosne _(RER D), a typical PLM-style station :


----------



## Minato ku

Tunnel between Gare de l'Est and Gare du Nord/Magenta


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1049616160696795136


----------



## 437.001

VincentB_ said:


> _Montgeron - Crosne _(RER D), a typical PLM-style station


I've passed through this one on a TER train to Auxerre.

In fact, Paris-Auxerre is almost like the Transilien. I think there are some services to Laroche-Migennes which are Transilien?


----------



## alexandru.mircea

^ I think the Laroche-Migennes one is a TER on which the Navigo pass is valid from Paris to Fontainebleau and back, as this distance lies inside the regional border. I used to take it when I was living in Fontanebleau, it was very cosy and comfy.


----------



## bat753

New design for the transport tickets (spring 2019); then, they will be progressively deleted.










New design for the transport card, named Navigo (spring 2019): the blue card will be the new one.


----------



## Minato ku

Renovation of the train shed of Saint Lazare.


----------



## Sacré Coeur

Finally!!! It was a real shame to leave the shed in this miserable state for so long. I hope SNCF Réseau will plan regular maintenance to keep it in good condition over the next 50 years.


----------



## AntonRG

Sacré Coeur said:


> Finally!!! It was a real shame to leave the shed in this miserable state for so long. I hope SNCF Réseau will plan regular maintenance to keep it in good condition over the next 50 years.


It would be great to see the old main Hall 1 at Gare de Lyon have the same facelift.


----------



## alexandru.mircea

The rennovation of the Pantin station (line E) is very advanced, with only one wing still in the works. The new bridge over the quais is operational. Eveyrthing looks very, very good. 


IMG_20180928_110557 by Alexandru Mircea, on Flickr


IMG_20180928_110622 by Alexandru Mircea, on Flickr


IMG_20180928_110843 by Alexandru Mircea, on Flickr


IMG_20180928_110851 by Alexandru Mircea, on Flickr


IMG_20180928_110857 by Alexandru Mircea, on Flickr


IMG_20180928_110744 by Alexandru Mircea, on Flickr


IMG_20180928_110729 by Alexandru Mircea, on Flickr


IMG_20180928_111101 by Alexandru Mircea, on Flickr


IMG_20180928_111008 by Alexandru Mircea, on Flickr


IMG_20180928_110957 by Alexandru Mircea, on Flickr


IMG_20180928_111057 by Alexandru Mircea, on Flickr


----------



## Clery

Sacré Coeur said:


> Finally!!! It was a real shame to leave the shed in this miserable state for so long. I hope SNCF Réseau will plan regular maintenance to keep it in good condition over the next 50 years.


It's good to see you again hanging over here.


----------



## dimlys1994

From Metro Report

https://www.metro-report.com/news/n...d-to-start-on-paris-rer-line-e-extension.html

*Tunnelling poised to start on Paris RER Line E extension*
07 Dec 2018










FRANCE: Construction of the main tunnel of the RER Line E extension between Courbevoie and Haussmann-Saint Lazare to the west of Paris will commence during the first quarter of 2019. This follows a traditional ceremony held at Courbevoie on November 28 to name the tunnel boring machine Virginie. Present at the event were Transport Minister Elisabeth Borne, President of the Île-de-France Region Valérie Pécresse and President & Director-General of SNCF Réseau Patrick Jeantet.

With a diameter of 11 m and a weight of 1 800 tonnes, Virginie is France’s largest TBM. Built in Germany by Herrenknecht, it will work at depths of 30 m to 40 m, progressing at an average rate of 15 m a day

...


----------



## DiogoBaptista

*Plaisir - Grignon*

Transilien BB827301 à Plaisir Grignon le 15.12.2018 by Torsten Giesen, no Flickr


----------



## Antje

Question: Has anyone got a map of how the SNCF suburban rail services used to look like back in 1952?

I am thinking about the historical map for UrbanRail.net but I can only proceed properly if I get a reasonable idea of the state of SNCF suburban rail services in 1952. I know there was no RER back then, but I am concerned about missing certain lines and stations that may have been open back then but not now, or the other way round.


----------



## DiogoBaptista

*Arcueil - Cachan*

D850_DSC_4617_20190203_144_DxO by Torsten Giesen, no Flickr


----------



## DiogoBaptista

*Pont ferroviaire d'Asnières*

D850_DSC_5468_20190215_170_DxO by Torsten Giesen, no Flickr


----------



## MF-01

Nice shots DiogoBaptista. Weird that the BB27301 had both pantographs up it wasn't a cold day at that time


----------



## Minato ku

Vincennes
Renovation


----------



## Sacré Coeur

The only good thing about this refurbishment is the tiles on the floor of the platforms. At last!! But why has it to be so dark? The whole station still looks very dark


----------



## Minato ku

Construction of the new RER NG stock for the RER D and E.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1097794999884881920


----------



## The Polwoman

Sacré Coeur said:


> The only good thing about this refurbishment is the tiles on the floor of the platforms. At last!! But why has it to be so dark? The whole station still looks very dark



It seems some kind of fashion to retain bad elements from postwar designs. Looking at the older metro stations of Amsterdam, these pictures look awfully similar. It's clean and neat but far from beautiful.


----------



## Neric007

I think these refurbishments look pretty good. And I like the dark tiles. It's somewhat classy.


----------



## Alargule

I attended the Transit mapping symposium in Paris last week. Took the opportunity to take some RER-photos at Chatelet-Les Halles. And - as the symposium primarily concerned maps and wayfinding - that's also the theme of these photos.


----------



## Svartmetall

I really have to go back to Paris. Would be great to see it again and get an update with all the changes happening there. Few cities in the developed world have such a pace of infrastructure renewal.


----------



## Minato ku

The transfer corridors between Opera and Auber will close for two years from next week.


Auber correspondance by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Auber correspondance by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Auber correspondance by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Auber correspondance by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Auber correspondance by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Auber correspondance by Minato ku, sur Flickr


----------



## Svartmetall

^^ That is definitely a much needed upgrade. Auber was one of the worst stations to me in Paris, and all the improvements made so far are great.


----------



## Minato ku

Z 6400 vs Z 50000
Dwell time


----------



## Minato ku

A TV report about Auber in February 1972 (not 1974, contrary to what is written in the video title), just few month after its opening.






The station was viewed as futurist but quite empty with few passengers. 24,000 per day. (compared with 180,000 today).
At the time, the line serving Auber was limited from La Défense to Auber and had only three stations.

The extention to the western suburbs with the Saint-Germain branch only occured in October 1972. 
It's not until December 1977 that the line was extended eastwise with the opening of Chatelet-les-Halles and Gare de Lyon and the junction with the Eastern part Nation to Boissy and the opening of Marne la Vallée branch.


----------



## Stuu

^^

It's a shame the dome shaped shops in the main hall didn't last, they are great. It must have been amazing when it opened, it's still a huge space compared to most underground stations


----------



## MedC

Stuu said:


> ^^
> 
> It's a shame the dome shaped shops in the main hall didn't last, they are great. It must have been amazing when it opened, it's still a huge space compared to most underground stations


The station as a whole did not age very well and, to be honest, still feels empty when taken outside of rush hours but hey, you can succeed every time.


----------



## milo92

:hi:

Le chantier du prolongement du RER E au niveau de la porte Maillot avance: une magnifique Potain MD 365 a été montée (avec ascenseur inclus dans le mat ce qui est rare pour Potain)


----------



## Minato ku

The tunnel of the RER E in Central Paris is closed for work during this summer. 
Among other works, they are retrofitting the platforms for the new rolling stock.
So the inner suburban services are back to Gare de l'Est, like before July 1999.

While it's not the first time that RER E service are redirected to Gare de l'Est, it's the first time that they are so organised. They have put signages and reserved platforms for the RER E services.


RER E, Paris Est by Minato ku, sur Flickr


RER E, Gare de l4est by Minato ku, sur Flickr


RER E, Paris Est by Minato ku, sur Flickr


RER E, Paris Est by Minato ku, sur Flickr


RER E, Paris Est by Minato ku, sur Flickr


RER E, Paris Est by Minato ku, sur Flickr


RER E, Paris Est by Minato ku, sur Flickr


----------



## Minato ku

Vincennes
The renovation of the station main entrance building is almost over.


Vincennes RER by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Vincennes RER by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Vincennes RER by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Vincennes RER by Minato ku, sur Flickr

There are still plenty to do in the station, the platforms and the widening of secondary access.


----------



## 437.001

Minato ku said:


> The tunnel of the RER E in Central Paris is closed for work during this summer.
> Among other works, they are retrofitting the platforms for the new rolling stock.


Does it have a different platform height? :sly:


----------



## TER200

437.001 said:


> Does it have a different platform height? :sly:


The MI2N trains, similar to those of the RER A, have an access height of 1200 mm so the 2 new stations in the dedicated Eole tunnel were built with this platform height. It is however not possible to raise the height in the other stations because they share tracks with other trains and this would pose loading gauge problems, so all RER E stations but those 2 have the "standard high platforms" at 920 mm.
As the issue on the western extension will be the same, and new "RER NG" trains are common with the RER D with a platform height of 920 mm, Magenta and Haussmann-Saint-Lazare will be adapted at 920 mm as well :bash: .

It can now be considered as a mistake to have chosen 1200 mm in the first place, but in the 1980s SNCF decided to adapt the only double-deck rolling stock fit for the RER (with many doors for short dwell times) at the time, the MI2N that RATP was designing for the line A.


PS : I think they will just raise the tracks, this is easier than lowering the vast platforms.


----------



## Minato ku

They are indeed raising the tracks rather than lowering the height of the platforms.


----------



## sergiogiorgini

Whatever happened to the plans to change the signage and nomenclature of the Paris system? RER would become "train", the round bullets would go square, etc. Has it sort of quietly died?


----------



## Minato ku

sergiogiorgini said:


> Whatever happened to the plans to change the signage and nomenclature of the Paris system? RER would become "train", the round bullets would go square, etc. Has it sort of quietly died?


There is still the idea to change the signage and nomenclature.
In the office of Ile de France mobilités, this idea is not dead.


----------



## Iron_

D K said:


> Why adopting a squared shape for RER and Transilien?
> Seems like RATP loves to waste money in irrelevant fancy projects...signs, designs, redesigns, stickers, signs,...They rather improve the service and increase the frequencies in some lines


Transilien were already squared, so RER is assimilating to this lines instead of being called 'train'.


----------



## sergiogiorgini

Not unimportantly, the Parisine font has survived. Good.


----------



## 437.001

Hi, any news about RER E extension from Haussmann-St Lazare to Nanterre La Folie?


----------



## Axelferis

*RER B refurbishment:*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1168900261672366081
*RER A refurbisment:*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1168520414261403648


----------



## suburbicide

*Was the choice of double decker trains on RER A a mistake?*

I came across this 2018 blog post which tries to make the case that the RER A would be better suited for single level trains rather than the double decker MI 09. 

https://pedestrianobservations.com/2018/01/04/dont-run-bilevels/

Allegedly, since the introduction of these trains, they’ve had to reduce the frequency from 30 tph to 24 tph, due to longer dwell times.

Double deckers have longer dwell times due to the larger number of passengers they carry, and the fact that interior stairs obstruct the passenger flow inside the train.

The blogger further argues that the cost of these purpose-built trains is exceedingly high, and few if any comparable urban/suburban train lines in Europe and Asia use double deckers.

Any thoughts on this? Surely single level trains would have to have fewer seats and more standing passengers, to match the hourly capacity of the current trains.


----------



## SantiagoBraun

Was in Paris recently and really enjoyed the mass transit experience.


----------



## Nouvellecosse

suburbicide said:


> I came across this 2018 blog post which tries to make the case that the RER A would be better suited for single level trains rather than the double decker MI 09.
> 
> https://pedestrianobservations.com/2018/01/04/dont-run-bilevels/
> 
> Allegedly, since the introduction of these trains, they’ve had to reduce the frequency from 30 tph to 24 tph, due to longer dwell times.
> 
> Double deckers have longer dwell times due to the larger number of passengers they carry, and the fact that interior stairs obstruct the passenger flow inside the train.
> 
> The blogger further argues that the cost of these purpose-built trains is exceedingly high, and few if any comparable urban/suburban train lines in Europe and Asia use double deckers.
> 
> Any thoughts on this? Surely single level trains would have to have fewer seats and more standing passengers, to match the hourly capacity of the current trains.


In that same post, there were a couple of responses that effectively counter this. The RER services are mainly suburban services (as opposed to an urban system such as the metro) and therefore it cover long distances and extended travel times. That type of system needs to be able to provide significant seating to allow people to make these long trips in reasonable comfort. So matching the hourly capacity of the current trains using fewer sets isn't the goal. The goal is the match the capacity of the previous single-level trains while adding significantly more seats. 

Paris is in a unique situation in that it's a 12+ million mega city area whose metro lines are fairly light capacity (only 75-90m trains) with frequent stops that make it impractical to extend further into the suburbs, so suburban rail has to carry a greater load. But that doesn't change the fact that it's suburban rail and therefore can't (well, shouldn't) force large numbers of passengers to stand as if it was a regular metro. The three door bi-levels seems to be a decent work around even if it was expensive. I suspect that the main reason for the extra cost is that the three door bi-level trains is a new product specifically designed for Paris and not yet used elsewhere. But that's just a part of being unique.


----------



## historyworks

That 2018 blog discussion is very interesting and wide-ranging, including discussion of buses. Thank you suburbicide for posting the link.

Similar double deck trains with three doors per carriage were designed for Melbourne (Australia) in the 1990s but they were not built because of concerns about dwell times. In Sydney the two-door double deckers definitely have major issues with dwells and internal movement of passengers and it's difficult to fill a train to capacity because people don't want to move away from the doorways because they're worried they can't get out through the crowd when their stop comes. They are also slow performers, with the result that they have to semi-express on long suburban journeys in order to maintain reasonable journey times. This is of course very inconvenient for people who want to use stations that are bypassed and they have a much slower journey on all-stops trains.

The long-term solution is now the new metro which is a rapid transit system very much like the Perth (Australia) system and has more in common with an S Bahn than a metro. It is very frequent with high capacity (less seats, but on a seats per hour calculation doesn't compare so unfavourably with the double deckers), stops at all stations and, most signficantly has a very fast journey time (high average speed) which is something much appreciated in typical sprawling Australian cities. By the time you get past 30-40 kms, the metro is up to 10-15 minutes faster than an equivalent double deck journey with the same number of stops and even faster than double deck journeys that skip stops. The Perth system has a similar performance lead. For many - I would say most - commuters, the advantages of stopping at all stations and the quicker journey outweigh the inconvenience of perhaps having to stand for part of a journey.

The story of Paris RER A has been followed closely in Australian transport circles, particularly in Sydney, because it suggests better possibilities for double deckers. But when it was learned that that RER was managing more like 24 trains per hour rather than 30 trains per hour hoped for in Australia, the single deck metro/S Bahn type of solution came more into favour and it has been very popular with commuters. For example, the Mandurah line in Perth is 70 km long (10 stops), the trains are single deck with longitudinal seats and more standing capacity than sitting, but the journey takes only 50 minutes for this distance. That has proved to be an overwhelming winner for commuters.

Edit:
Out of curiousity, I note that RER A is 108 km long with 46 stations. The north-south line in Perth (Mandurah-Butler, similarly passing through the city centre in the middle) is 110 km with 23 stations. The whole journey takes 1.5 hours. What is the end to end journey time of Line A and does it stop at all stations?

(Of course, it should be noted when comparing patronage with Australia it is like between a giant and a midget! The patronage of Line A is about 273 million p.a. compared with about 37 million on the Perth north-south line. Perth is a city of only 2 million, most of whom drive their cars, an Australia-wide problem. This is why fast rail journeys are important in Australia, so that they can compete with car journeys.)


----------



## TER200

historyworks said:


> Edit:
> Out of curiousity, I note that RER A is 108 km long with 46 stations. The north-south line in Perth (Mandurah-Butler, similarly passing through the city centre in the middle) is 110 km with 23 stations. The whole journey takes 1.5 hours. What is the end to end journey time of Line A and does it stop at all stations?


First of all, no train can serve the whole 46 stations because they are on different branches.
Here are complete timetables :
https://www.ratp.fr/sites/default/f...iche-horaire_rer_ligne-a-aller.1567583621.pdf
https://www.ratp.fr/sites/default/f...che-horaire_rer_ligne-a-retour.1567583621.pdf

In rush hours, a whole Boissy -> Cergy trip serving all 26 stations on 63 km encountered takes 1h20, while 23-stops Marne-la-Vallée -> St Germain (skipping 3 stops, the Marne-la-Vallée branch being the only one with such pattern for headway reasons*) for 58,6 km takes 1h11.


* In rush hours, 3 out of 5 trains use the Marne-la-Vallée branch, which means two of them have to follow at less-than-2'30" intervall (the frequency in the morning rush hour is 25,5 tph), and this is not permitted by the signalling further than Val-de-Fontenay. Hence the skipping of Neuyilly-Plaisance (and then of other stations to balance loads between trains and, of course, slightly reduce travel time on this long branch).
In all other cases, all trains serve all stations


----------



## urbanflight

Iron_ said:


> The new nomenclature for the Paris transport systems has been approved by IDFM :
> 
> 'RER' has survived !





Bren said:


> Disappointment.


I agree. It'd have simplified a lot replacing 'RER' and leaving only one naming for all the suburban train lines in IdF.


----------



## Antje

In my opinion, the case for using double decker trains on urban rail lines has diminished with the growing appeal of open gangways.*

Both the MS61 and MI84 (if I remember correctly, as far as the RER A is concerned) did not have open gangways, and that meant that one carriage could be packed, while another had spare seats.

I think the MI2N and MI09 do not have open gangways as well.

* Gangways with fire doors, like those on the Tokyo Metro trains, are acceptable: the important thing is that passengers can easily move between carriages.


----------



## TER200

Antje said:


> I think the MI2N and MI09 do not have open gangways as well.


True. 
They will first appear on the RER network with RER-NG trains for lines D and E.


----------



## ZeusUpsistos

The new RER will have them though.


----------



## DiogoBaptista

*Haussmann - Saint-Lazare*

Paris_Magenta_LigneRER-E_SNCF_Z23000_20190929_035_DxO by Torsten Giesen, no Flickr


----------



## suburbicide

Delete


----------



## Attus

What is the train of the highest capacity wich is in daily service in RER (or Transilien) network? For example as far as I know MI09 is around 110m and two units may be coupled so that you have a train of around 220m of length, double decker. Is it (or Z22500, having the same size) the largest possible train in the network?


----------



## TER200

Attus said:


> What is the train of the highest capacity wich is in daily service in RER (or Transilien) network? For example as far as I know MI09 is around 110m and two units may be coupled so that you have a train of around 220m of length, double decker. Is it (or Z22500, having the same size) the largest possible train in the network?


On line D, trains are 130m long, so double units are ten-car 260m trains. However they have a lot of seats (1400 to 1600 in total) and not so much standing capacity. The total capacity is thus about 2500, slightly less than a 225m-long MI2N or MI09 train (2600).
However, the RER-NG for line D will have less seats (1200 on a double unit) and much more standing room for theoretic total above 3600 people (an excessive figure that has been calculated with 6 people per m² in some areas).


----------



## Attus

^^ I see, thank you!


----------



## VincentB_

_Edited :_ RER C, _Viroflay RG_ :


----------



## Flo Flo

^^

This is not Le parc de Saint-Maur. This is RER C or RER D, mostly likely somewhere in the southern suburbs.


----------



## VincentB_

Flo Flo said:


> ^^
> 
> This is not Le parc de Saint-Maur. This is RER C or RER D, mostly likely somewhere in the southern suburbs.


Oups !

I'm sorry !!

You're right, i made a mistake... those pics were taken in _Viroflay RG_ (RER C)...


Here comes the pics of _Le parc de Saint-Maur_ (RER A) :


----------



## VincentB_

RER C,_ Alma._ 

The station reopened a few days ago ; it was closed fort two years. It's now accessible to disabled people and was very well refurbished - i think.

Sadly, access from the surface is currently very difficult because of works on the surface.


----------



## 437.001

^^
Does it get flooded often when the Seine goes angry?


----------



## bat753

depends what "often" means ^^


----------



## ZeusUpsistos

New renders of the *Nanterre-La Folie* station, which will open in 2022 as the western terminus of the line :






























https://explorations-architecture.com/fr/gare-eole-et-franchissements/


----------



## CabRide

*Cab view of RER B on the Paris Suburb (Massy Palaiseau / Gare du Nord)*


----------



## VincentB_

_Etoile_, last monday.


----------



## 437.001

^^
There are plenty of stations, both on surface and underground, in which the birds seem to want to live. Go figure...


----------



## 437.001

ZeusUpsistos said:


> New renders of the *Nanterre-La Folie* station, which will open in 2022 as the western terminus of the line :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://explorations-architecture.com/fr/gare-eole-et-franchissements/


Why is there a freight train?
Isn't Nanterre-La Folie supposed to stop being a freight yard?


----------



## ZeusUpsistos

^^ Like someone said on the french forum, to bring some color in this grey environment ! But more seriously, I'm not sure, they might keep some freight activity.










Photos of November at the *Porte Maillot* :
















































https://www.rer-eole.fr/actualite/retour-en-images-sur-les-travaux-de-la-porte-maillot-novembre-2019/


----------



## BillyF




----------



## BillyF




----------



## BillyF

It's on line A of the RER in Paris at Le Parc de Saint Maur station. For the 50th anniversary of the line Nation-Boissy, they decided to use a steam locomotive in October.


----------



## Clery

BillyF said:


> It's on line A of the RER in Paris at Le Parc de Saint Maur station. For the 50th anniversary of the line Nation-Boissy, they decided to use a steam locomotive in October.


Just to clarify, the line to Boissy used to be called "Ligne de Vincennes", it was connecting Bastille rail station to Boissy-Saint-Léger. It was the most outdated line on the suburban network, the very last one to still use steam locomotives back in 1969. The one we actually see on your video.

In 1969, the line was diverted from Vincennes to Nation metro station through a brand new tunnel. The rest of the line was electrified and heavily modernized in order to increase significantly speed and frequency. The first line as well on which will be introduced magnetic tickets. The new line will be baptized "Métro express régional" and was planned as the Eastern section of what will ultimately become the RER.

The Bastille rail station no longer exists. It's been replaced by an Opera House.

There's a great video showing the inauguration of the métro express régional. Sorry it's in French. If you can't understand it, you can skip the first minute to see how looked the old service.


----------



## CabRide

Time-lapse of cab view of RER A on the Paris Suburb (La Défense / Vincennes)






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qcEVUT1izs


----------



## BillyF




----------



## trelka

437.001 said:


> Why is there a freight train?
> Isn't Nanterre-La Folie supposed to stop being a freight yard?


The two tracks on the North side of the station will be kept for Fret activity only. In total, there's 6 tracks for the RER E and 2 tracks for Fret. Btw if you look closer, at the bottom of the stairs on the left side of the pic, you can see a fence on the edge of the platform that indicates that this side of the platform will not be used to board a train.


----------



## Axelferis

*Châtelet RER B:* (with my phone)
























​


----------



## Axelferis

*RER B Gare du Nord:* (with my phone)










​


----------



## milo92

:hi:
Une deuxième grue à été montée sur le chantier de la porte Maillot, une belle Potain MDT série 300


----------



## Minato ku

*Nanterre Université*


----------



## Minato ku

*Gare de l'Est*

During the summer, the central section of the RER E is closed for works.
The RER E trains are diverted at the Gare de l'Est.

Gare de Est by Minato ku, sur Flickr
Unfortunately the platforms of the Gare de l'Est are too low for Z 22500.

Gare de l&#x27;Est, RER E by Minato ku, sur Flickr
It can get very crowded in case of disruption.

Gare de l&#x27;Est, RER E by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Gare de l&#x27;Est, RER E by Minato ku, sur Flickr


----------



## Minato ku

*Nation*
Opened in December 1969, it's the oldest Central Paris station on the RER A, as many other stations of the line, it's currently under renovation work (only the beginning here).

Could anything look more end of the 60s, early 70s than these colors ?

Nation, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr

Nation, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr

Nation, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr

Nation, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr

Nation, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr
It's been a while that I had not set a foot on platforms of the RER A at Nation.

Nation, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr
They removed the former seats. 😢
These facades seem to me to be temporary but I don't think they will will put back the former original seat design.

Nation, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr

Nation, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr

Nation, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr

Nation, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr
The old panels are no longer working (note the train here is serving the stations on this panel, the Saint Germain branch).

Nation, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr
Screens have replaced the old panels for indicating the stations served.

Nation, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr
I have read that catenaries at Nation were specially designed.

Nation, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr
The very wide eastbound platform.
When it opened in 1969. Nation was the western end of the eastern part of the line.
The western part of the RER A (opened in January 1970 _first between La Défense and Charles de Gaulle - Etoile_) and the eastern part only joined in december 1977 with the opening of Gare de Lyon and Chatelet les Halles.

Nation, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr


----------



## Iron_

Indeed the former and famous seats will not be back.

















It seems that only the platforms are concerned with this refurbishment and unfortunately not the ticket hall.


----------



## ed24

There seems to be a lot of refurbishment projects underway - were these all long term planned projects or have they been fast-tracked as an economic stimulus?


----------



## Iron_

These are planned for long time ago.
Auber, Nation and CDG-Étoile on RER A notably.
But many other stations are under refurbishment/improvement since several months/years mostly to guarantee the accessibility of the disabled: Vincennes, Nanterre-Ville, Torcy, Cergy-Préfecture on RER A, Robinson, Croix de Berny on RER B, Ivry, Saint Ouen, Juvisy on RER C, Saint-Denis on RER D... and other stations in connection with new lines will be totally transformed soon : Noisy-Champs, Val-de-Fontenay, Issy, les Ardoines, Noisy-le-Sec, etc.
Moreover there are currently full of renovation works on the RER and metro lines :

RER A : every summer since 2015 and until 2021, the central section is affected by works on the tracks
RER C : every summer since 1998, the tunnel section is closed for heavy works of modernization of the tracks and stations
RER E : works on the tunnel section anticipating the west extension of the line
Line 4 : works of automation of the line since 2017
Line 6 : works on the aerial section since 2019 until 2021
+ works of extensions of lines 4, 11, 12, 14, E + works of layout on several stations with new accesses, etc.


----------



## ZeusUpsistos

*Gare de Nanterre-La Folie*
































Arthur Weidmann


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## Minato ku

*Gare de Lyon*
During the summer 2020, the southbound platforms have being heightened. The heightening of northbound platforms will be done next year.

Northbound platforms

Gare de Lyon, RER D by Minato ku, sur Flickr
Here you can see the step

Gare de Lyon, RER D by Minato ku, sur Flickr

Southbound platforms (heightened)

Gare de Lyon, RER D by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Gare de Lyon, RER D by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Gare de Lyon, RER D by Minato ku, sur Flickr
Upward for exit and transfer with the metro and main lines terminal

Gare de Lyon, RER D by Minato ku, sur Flickr
Downward for transfer with the RER A

Gare de Lyon, RER D by Minato ku, sur Flickr
Work still in progress

Gare de Lyon, RER D by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Gare de Lyon, RER D by Minato ku, sur Flickr

Southbound/Northbound

Gare de Lyon, RER D by Minato ku, sur Flickr

In December 2018, the line was simplified in the south. There are only two branches that go to the center of Paris.
Melun and Corbeille-Essonne by Evry Courcouronne. For Malesherbes, passengers have to change trains at Juvisy.










You will also note that the frequencies are higher to the south, because of the lack of capacity in central Paris (the RER D uses the tracks of the RER B between Chatelet-les-Halles and Gare du Nord, there are trains from the south that terminate at Gare de Lyon.


----------



## Stuu

What is the latest news on the plan to build an extra tunnel between Chatelet and Gare de Nord? There was a plan to go via Republique at one point


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## 437.001

Stuu said:


> What is the latest news on the plan to build an extra tunnel between Chatelet and Gare de Nord? There was a plan to go via Republique at one point


Minato_ku will correct me, but the last I seem to remember was that they'd finally build the extra tunnels between Châtelet and Gare du Nord.
That would be ratherquite expensive, but it's not a very long stretch, and they'd improve the reliability of RER B and RER D in one go, which is just as badly needed as the western extension of RER E to Porte Maillot, La Défense and Nanterre.

Today I've been looking at the routes of both RER A and RER E, and it's striking how both serve many of the same stations or towns, each on its own route: Noisy-le-Grand, Champigny, Nogent-sur-Marne, Fontenay-sous-Bois, La Défense (Courbevoie/Puteaux), Nanterre, Houilles, Poissy. And Paris, of course.
And even Torcy, to a lesser degree, as it's just one station away from Chelles-Gounay on Transilien P (but there were talks of extending RER E to Meaux -nothing serious for now).
The demand on the east-west axis must be enormous for it to require two RER lines.


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## Minato ku

Unfortunately, any tunnel idea for the RER D have been abandonned. It's not only an issue of cost but also an issue of feasibility.
A new Chatelet-les-Halles to Gare du Nord tunnel would request the closure of the RER A between Chatelet and Auber and the closure of the B/D between Chatelet and Gare du Nord, two of Europe busiest transit corridors.

To avoid closure, the idea would be to create two new station at Gare du Nord and Chatelet but the underground are already very crowded there. 
Same for an underground station under Republique, it would require as well a new underground station at Gare du Nord to avoid the closure of the RER B between Gare du Nord and Chatelet.

The current idea is a new signaling with automation (Nexteo) to increase the number of train in the shared tunnel. Unfortunately due to a shortage of enginners, some conflits between the SNCF and RATP and the COVID, there are some delays.


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## ZeusUpsistos

Progress of the track laying after Nanterre-La Folie station.
















































Arthur Weidmann


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## 437.001

🔼 🔼 🔼
ZeusUpsistos, were these photos taken looking towards Houilles/Poissy/Mantes-la-Jolie, or towards La Défense/Paris/Chelles-Gournay/Tournan?


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## ZeusUpsistos

Houilles/Poissy/Mantes-la-Jolie ! On the other side you would see the skyscrapers of La Défense.


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## SSCreader

The interior design for the upcoming RER NG trains (that will be introduced on line D) has been presented.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1306877613034569729


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## ZeusUpsistos

And the photos :
























































Source


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## stockholm79

That glossy paint makes it look cheap and doesn't look harmonical with all the reflections.
Too bad for an otherwise good train.


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## FabriFlorence

New RER trains are absolutely amazing!


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## cristof

What’s the purpose of the changing led inside ? 
is it a calming purpose during rush hour ?


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## Neric007

It's just an aesthetic feature I think. The same thing can be seen on the new Transilien Z 50000. Interior designs are very similar actually.


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## 437.001

*RER E/Transilien*

I have a question.
Looking at Google Maps, I've spotted that there's a connection between Nanterre-La Folie and La Garenne-Colombes.
So, technically, a train could depart from Paris-St Lazare and reach Nanterre-La Folie.
Would it make any sense to open it for passengers?


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## Neric007

When RER E west extension is completed, it will connect Haussmann-Saint-Lazare to Nanterre-La-Folie (stopping at Porte Maillot and La Défense on the way).


----------



## Clery

cristof said:


> What’s the purpose of the changing led inside ?
> is it a calming purpose during rush hour ?





Neric007 said:


> It's just an aesthetic feature I think. The same thing can be seen on the new Transilien Z 50000. Interior designs are very similar actually.


Blue lighting has been scientifically proven as having a soothing effect:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5648169/

I remember having watched a video where it was explained that it was already used with that purpose in airplanes.


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## Neric007

Maybe but here it seems to be changing colors.


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## 437.001

Neric007 said:


> When RER E west extension is completed, it will connect Haussmann-Saint-Lazare to Nanterre-La-Folie (stopping at Porte Maillot and La Défense on the way).


Yeah, I already knew this.
But still, would it make any sense to connect Nanterre-La Folie to La Garenne-Colombes (and on to Paris-St Lazare) on a regular service?
Like, any Transilien L new branch or something?
Or will that be left just as a technical connection, much like the part of the old Grésillons line between Les Grésillons and Paris-Gare du Nord?


----------



## Neric007

Oh ok, sorry.

Well I don't know but I doubt it since Transilien L and Rer E will have a connection at La Defense technically, and I assume the majority of people using Line L only need to stop at la Defense. Besides a branch of the L also goes to Nanterre-Université from Bécon-Les Bruyères. I don't see how that extra-branch could be useful but that's just my opinion


----------



## Clery

Neric007 said:


> Oh ok, sorry.
> 
> Well I don't know but I doubt it since Transilien L and Rer E will have a connection at La Defense technically, and I assume the majority of people using Line L only need to stop at la Defense. Besides a branch of the L also goes to Nanterre-Université from Bécon-Les Bruyères. I don't see how that extra-branch could be useful but that's just my opinion


There's also metro line 15 which by 2030 should connect Nanterre La Folie to Colombes in the North and to Saint-Cloud in the South. So indeed Nanterre - La Folie should end up being well-connected to the sectors served by Transilien L.


----------



## SSCreader

437.001 said:


> Yeah, I already knew this.
> But still, would it make any sense to connect Nanterre-La Folie to La Garenne-Colombes (and on to Paris-St Lazare) on a regular service?
> Like, any Transilien L new branch or something?
> Or will that be left just as a technical connection, much like the part of the old Grésillons line between Les Grésillons and Paris-Gare du Nord?


There are already many trains on the Colombes-Paris section, with suburban groups 3 & 5 from Saint-Lazare and Normandie trains (26 trains/hour, to be reversed with cumbersome SNCF procedures at Saint-Lazare), which means there is little room for additional trains on rush hour on this section.

But I believe that there will be a rail yard and mainenance shop located on the connection, as there was one before construction started. As both RER E and Transilien L will be using Z50000 trains (but of different length), it does make sense to allow access from both ends.


----------



## 437.001

SSCreader said:


> *There are already many trains on the Colombes-Paris section, with suburban groups 3 & 5 from Saint-Lazare and Normandie trains (26 trains/hour, to be reversed with cumbersome SNCF procedures at Saint-Lazare), which means there is little room for additional trains on rush hour on this section.*
> 
> But I believe that there will be a rail yard and maintenance shop located on the connection, as there was one before construction started. As both RER E and Transilien L will be using Z50000 trains (but of different length), it does make sense to allow access from both ends.


However, once the RER E is connected to Houilles and extended to Mantes, many of the current Transilien L trains between La Garenne and Paris will be turned into RER E trains and will run from Houilles straight into Nanterre-La Folie and on to La Défense, Porte Maillot, Haussmann and etc, so some slots will be left empty I suppose...

But like Clery says, if metro line 15 (and tram T3?) are meant to reach Nanterre sooner or later, it's less of a need I guess...


----------



## Minato ku

RER E will replace the J service between Saint-Lazare and Mantes la Jolie by Poissy. There will be no change on L trains.


----------



## sergiogiorgini

Wouldn't it make sense to stop the RER A service to Poissy as well? It would simplify the A to two branches in the west/two branches in the east.


----------



## SebParis

sergiogiorgini said:


> Wouldn't it make sense to stop the RER A service to Poissy as well? It would simplify the A to two branches in the west/two branches in the east.


Yes, but the currently planned service for RER E west of Nanterre is only 6 trains per hour. So it would cut the current service (RER A + Transilien J) by about half. So either they run more RER E till Poissy or changing the Transilien L from Cergy to Poissy and run all the RER A to Cergy, which would already improve the current interlining and balance the capacity better, as there is much more demand on the Cergy branch than on the Poissy branch.


----------



## 437.001

sergiogiorgini said:


> Wouldn't it make sense to stop the RER A service to Poissy as well? It would simplify the A to two branches in the west/two branches in the east.





SebParis said:


> Yes, but the currently planned service for RER E west of Nanterre is only 6 trains per hour. So it would cut the current service (RER A + Transilien J) by about half.


There's also the stopping patterns at the stations between Nanterre and Achères (both excluded).
Which is probably the most congested section of the Normandy main line, with all the TER and Intercités trains to Normandy, RER A, and Transilien J (which will become RER E), and also Transilien L. Not sure whether there's freight between Nanterre and Mantes or not.

RER A to Poissy/Cergy call at Houilles, Sartrouville, and Maisons-Laffitte.
RER E will call only at Houilles. I don't know whether this is permanent or not.

I'm not certain that the passengers of RER A using the Poissy branch would easily accept to be switched to RER E, because if on one hand they'd run through a (probably) less congested line than RER A in terms of patronage, on the other they'd lose direct access to Charles de Gaulle-Étoile (although Neuilly-Porte Maillot is nearby), and also to Châtelet, Gare de Lyon, and at least in the beginning, Val de Fontenay.



sergiogiorgini said:


> So either they run more RER E till Poissy or changing the Transilien L from Cergy to Poissy and run all the RER A to Cergy, which would already improve the current interlining and balance the capacity better, as there is much more demand on the Cergy branch than on the Poissy branch.


Hence maybe some new Transilien L service to Nanterre-La Folie in replacement of a few of the former Transilien J, perhaps?
Or the current Transilien L service to Nanterre-Université and Cergy will do?


----------



## TER200

SebParis said:


> So either they run more RER E till Poissy


Which is not possible as long as there is no new line to separate long-distance trains to Normandy from RER E...


437.001 said:


> RER E will call only at Houilles. I don't know whether this is permanent or not.


And only some trains (2 tph I think), for the same capacity reason.



437.001 said:


> if on one hand they'd run through a (probably) less congested line than RER A in terms of patronage


Eastwards, it's probably more comfortable to board the A train at its departure station than the E already full from all the previous stops. Westwards, the Poissy branch still has the least full trains of the A line...


----------



## TER200

SSCreader said:


> both RER E and Transilien L will be using Z50000 trains


No, the Z50000 temporarily on RER E will be removed from it as soon as possible when enough RER NG are available, possibly even before the opening of Nanterre-La Folie.


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## 437.001

TER200 said:


> No, the Z50000 temporarily on RER E will be removed from it as soon as possible *when enough RER NG are available*, possibly even before the opening of Nanterre-La Folie.


I've had a look at them, and also at Regio 2N.

I've done this because I've read a French article about RER B, and how it is closing the gap in patronage that it used to have with RER A.
RER B seems to be booming with passengers, and it has, together with RER C (Z 5600 and Z 8800), some of the oldest rolling stock these days (RER B now has only MI 79 and MI 84), which is particularly ill-adapted to the southern side of the line (Châtelet to St Rémy-lès-Chevreuse and Robinson), as that part has many stations in narrow bends, which creates rather big gaps between train and platform when calling at stations.

Regio 2N look like they could run on RER B to take advantage of this.

Besides, if this increase in passengers (pre-corona, I suppose) keeps on happening once this pandemic is over, then the situation on RER B risks turning into a nightmare worse than RER D on a bad day, as precisely because of RER D, capacity between Chatelet and Gare du Nord is very restrained.

If only they'd manage to finally build a second tunnel between Chatelet and Gare du Nord and separate RER B from RER D:..

After all, now there is the certainty that that would happen only after RER E is extended to Nanterre, so there would be a slight relief in passenger numbers between Gare du Nord and Chatelet anyway.


----------



## TER200

437.001 said:


> Regio 2N look like they could run on RER B to take advantage of this.


Never, ever, at all. Too few doors, designed for low platforms, and thus too convoluted general layout. It's barely good for long suburban lines like line R. On a very urban, metro-like lines station dwell times would get horrendous (like they are one line C with a much lower patronage).

RER B needs many doors, short cars as you said due to curved platforms... The real problem is :

Either single deck (basically like a Z50000 with more doors, or a wide metro like the Grand Paris Express trains) but you don't get enough capacity, especially seated (the authorities require for the new MI NG 20 to 30 more capacity, both in seated and total).
Or double deck, but it's very difficult to put enough doors then (the exchange rate has to be about the same as currently), given that you can't use long, 3-door cars like on RER A due again to the curved platforms.

It's not completely unlikely we'll have trains with some double-deck cars for seating capacity (17 or 18 m long with 2 big doors, like the ones on the RER NG) and some single-deck cars.


----------



## 437.001

TER200 said:


> Never, ever, at all. Too few doors, designed for low platforms, and thus too convoluted general layout. It's barely good for long suburban lines like line R. On a very urban, metro-like lines station dwell times would get horrendous (like they are one line C with a much lower patronage).


I didn't explain myself well.
I wasn't meaning Regio 2N is literally the thing as it is now, but with some adaptations...
What I do like of Regio 2N is that short car with two doors and nothing else (at least from the outside, I haven't used them, but if there's only doors, it looks practical).
I find that would work well on lines with many stations on a bend, like RER B.
Of course, you'd have to add all of the other considerations (platform height, seat number and distribution, etc).



TER200 said:


> RER B needs many doors, short cars as you said due to curved platforms... The real problem is :
> 
> -Either single deck (basically like a Z50000 with more doors, or a wide metro like the Grand Paris Express trains) but you don't get enough capacity, especially seated (the authorities require for the new MI NG 20 to 30 more capacity, both in seated and total).
> 
> -Or double deck, but it's very difficult to put enough doors then (the exchange rate has to be about the same as currently), given that you can't use long, 3-door cars like on RER A due again to the curved platforms.


Can't they build short, double-decker cars?
I mean, long like one MI2N Altéo double-decker compartment and one door, and then a car with two doors like the Régio 2N, with maybe the odd seat (or... how do you say in English "estrapontin"? then maybe a few of those, whatever they're called in English)... and so on until you get a long train.



TER200 said:


> It's not completely unlikely we'll have trains with some double-deck cars for seating capacity (17 or 18 m long with 2 big doors, like the ones on the RER NG) and some single-deck cars.


The last Renfe tender for Cercanías trains for both Madrid and Barcelona goes in that direction as well.
On certain stations in Madrid (Méndez Álvaro, Ramón y Cajal, Cercedilla, and a few others), and in Barcelona (St Andreu Comtal, Pl Catalunya, Sitges, Cardedeu, Viladecavalls, and a few others), this model would work wonders.
Some will be 200m long, not divisible (we'll see how that works on weekends...).


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## TER200

437.001 said:


> I didn't explain myself well.
> I wasn't meaning Regio 2N is literally the thing as it is now, but with some adaptations...
> What I do like of Regio 2N is that short car with two doors and nothing else (at least from the outside, I haven't used them, but if there's only doors, it looks practical).
> I find that would work well on lines with many stations on a bend, like RER B.
> Of course, you'd have to add all of the other considerations (platform height, seat number and distribution, etc).


So basically like a Francilien with 2 doors per car, no ?
What I mean is that on RER B you need doors on every car, like one every 6 to 8 meters on average for the whole train. The Regio2N concept means alternating door-cars and seating-cars, so it has 2 doors per car pair, or on average one door for about 13 m of train.




437.001 said:


> Can't they build short, double-decker cars?
> I mean, long like *one MI2N Altéo double-decker compartment and one door*, and then a car with two doors, and so on.


So a mini-car with only one door (and a bogie beneath it) ? On the other hand it lies on the next car which has 2 doors (and two bogies) ? Well, maybe, but having to fit the stairs before the articulation mean space would be lost (compared to the MI2N diagram).


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## 437.001

TER200 said:


> So basically like a Francilien with 2 doors per car, no ?


Somewhere between the Francilien, a Citadis tramway, and with certain double-decker cars, or as many as you could fit in.



TER200 said:


> What I mean is that on RER B you need doors on every car, like one every 6 to 8 meters on average for the whole train. The Regio2N concept means alternating door-cars and seating-cars, so it has 2 doors per car pair, or on average one door for about 13 m of train.


Yeah. But what I like of the Regio2N are those small cars only with doors (at least from outside, they don't even have windows, so I suppose they might not have any seating).



TER200 said:


> So a mini-car with only one door (and a bogie beneath it) ?
> On the other hand it lies on the next car which has 2 doors (and two bogies) ?


Essentially what I mean is a train with a bogie structure of a TGV or a Citadis tramway.

Or a Francilien, yeah. A train like Francilien, but adapted for high platforms would be quite good for RER B... with thee problem that I'm not sure it could withstand an increase of passengers getting to RER A numbers, because unlike on RER A, the interval between trains on RER B can't be increased because of RER D.
So you'd need to cram together some double-decker cars to make up for the lack of trains somehow.

The RER B/RER D coexistence between Chatelet and Gare du Nord is going to end with an expensive tunnel just for RER D. In the end, there's not going to be any other choice.
They should have built it in the first place, together with Chatelet to Gare de Lyon, it would have been cheaper.



TER200 said:


> Well, maybe, but having to fit the stairs before the articulation mean space would be lost (compared to the MI2N diagram).


Yeah, but if you alternate that with single-decker cars, you make up for the loss of space, or at least that's the first impression I get.
Do you get what I mean?


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## TER200

437.001 said:


> Yeah. But what I like of the Regio2N are those small cars only with doors (at least from outside, they don't even have windows, so I suppose they might not have any seating).


Usually 16 seats on the ends (above the bogies) + in the middle a WC, bike zone, PRM zone (in the case without WC) or 4 more seats on each side. They are 10m long, much more than the length of two 1,60 m doors.



437.001 said:


> Essentially what I mean is a train with a bogie structure of a TGV or a Citadis tramway.


The first one means you have to provide space under each car end for half a bogie. A wide door (2m) takes almost as much space as a complete bogie. That's why I thought about "half-cars", more Talgo-style (or like the Citadis Dualis) : one end for a full door and bogie, the other without. Basically, I push the articulation on one side to fit a wide door.


I'm not sure those "baroque" architectures (with some cars resting only on their neighbor) is good for a full-size train. AFAIK, it has only been used on tram-trains (light and quite slow), Talgos and the Copenhagen S-Tog (also light but on single axles, not bogies) and the weird Integral DMUs (also quite light but faster), the last of those seem quite short-lived compared to traditional suburban stick (probably due to light construction, or technical problems). Maybe for high loads as encountered on RER B, this would cause dynamic problems.

But all in all : If designing a single-deck train is quite easy, a double-decker with many doors requires a lot of creativity. I'm really curious to see what comes out of this (although we usually don't see the losing proposals).


----------



## Axelferis

cristof said:


> What’s the purpose of the changing led inside ?
> is it a calming purpose during rush hour ?


You have LED in planes like 787 or cars like AUDI and others.
Same for TV or PC. Luminotherapy has evidences of efficiency on people mood.


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## 437.001

Hi. I have a question.

Does anyone here know what is the platform length (longitude) at the following stations?

1) Châtelet-Les Halles (each platform)
2) Haussmann-St Lazare
3) St Michel-Nôtre Dame (RER C only)
4) Villeneuve-St Georges
5) Bibliothèque François Mitterrand


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## ZeusUpsistos

RER D platforms at Châtelet-Les Halles are 320 m long while the two others on RER A and B are 225 m long.
Haussmann-St Lazare has 255 m long platforms.
Villeneuve-St Georges on RER D has 320 m long platforms.
I don't know for the ones on RER C !


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## Minato ku

There were at some moment talks to stop some non-RER trains at Bibliothèque François Mitterrand, so this platform could be quite long.
Anyway there are enough space to lengthen them.

Speaking of the RER C and Bibliothèque François Mitterrand, I like those panels in the southbound platforms where they put the trains code names serving the different stations.









At Porte de Clichy, another kind of panel.
It makes easier to understand that if one want to go to Versailles Castle from there, they need to change to trains.
A lot of times I have seen tourists waiting for trains to Versailles Castle on RER C northern branch (especially at Porte Maillot that provides a transfer with metro line 1).


----------



## Iron_

Un panneau tout neuf sans faire apparaître les nouvelles correspondances M14 et T9, c'est ce qui s'appelle de l'anticipation...


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## Minato ku

The SNCF couldn't care less of what happens in the RATP network. 😅
*_*

I went to Bibliothèque Francois Mitterrand and the platforms are not much longer than the trains. I would say about 220m, maybe a bit less.


Bibliotheque Francois Mitterrand, RER C by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Bibliotheque Francois Mitterrand, RER C by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Bibliotheque Francois Mitterrand, RER C by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Bibliotheque Francois Mitterrand, RER C by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Bibliotheque Francois Mitterrand, RER C by Minato ku, sur Flickr

They greatly improved signage on the RER C. Before in this station with 6 tracks, it was difficult to know where to go for the unaccustomed.
West and northbound platform A-D (blue)
The middle C-D platforms are rarely used. 
Southbound platforms E-F (red)

Bibliotheque Francois Mitterrand, RER C by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Bibliotheque Francois Mitterrand, RER C by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Bibliotheque Francois Mitterrand, RER C by Minato ku, sur Flickr


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## sergiogiorgini

I see SNCF has really embraced the new IDFM symbols, and they are much clearer than the old ones on the dark blue backgrounds SNCF uses for their signage.

It's a bit odd how this could happen while RATP still isn't using the new symbols. I don't know if a tourist would immediately understand that these are the same line:















Also because SNCF has a new habit of omitting the "RER" symbol before the letter.


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## ZeusUpsistos

That makes me wonder, why has this station been conceived with 6 tracks and 3 platforms ? Is it only to serve as back-up for the Gare d'Austerlitz ?


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## naruciakk

sergiogiorgini said:


> I see SNCF has really embraced the new IDFM symbols, and they are much clearer than the old ones on the dark blue backgrounds SNCF uses for their signage.


Speaking of that.
Does anyone have maybe a PDF with IDFM visual identification, with all their signage described and shown etc.? I can't really find it and I assume that such exists.


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## sergiogiorgini

naruciakk said:


> Speaking of that.
> Does anyone have maybe a PDF with IDFM visual identification, with all their signage described and shown etc.? I can't really find it and I assume that such exists.


Chartes & Prescriptions — Open Data Île-de-France Mobilités Scroll down.


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## naruciakk

Thank you, that is precisely what've been looking for. I had no idea that this is how it is called in French


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## Minato ku

Then I went to Saint-Michel Notre-Dame on RER C.

The platforms are bit longer than the trains.

Saint-Michel Notre-Dame, RER C by Minato ku, sur Flickr
Look at the gap, unfortunately, platforms can't be heightened or the trains wouldn't pass. 

Saint-Michel Notre-Dame, RER C by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Saint-Michel Notre-Dame, RER C by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Saint-Michel Notre-Dame, RER C by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Saint-Michel Notre-Dame, RER C by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Saint-Michel Notre-Dame, RER C by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Saint-Michel Notre-Dame, RER C by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Saint-Michel Notre-Dame, RER C by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Saint-Michel Notre-Dame, RER C by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Saint-Michel Notre-Dame, RER C by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Saint-Michel Notre-Dame, RER C by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Saint-Michel Notre-Dame, RER C by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Saint-Michel Notre-Dame, RER C by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Saint-Michel Notre-Dame, RER C by Minato ku, sur Flickr
Refurbished Z2N with IDFM blue livery

Saint-Michel Notre-Dame, RER C by Minato ku, sur Flickr


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## TER200

ZeusUpsistos said:


> That makes me wonder, why has this station been conceived with 6 tracks and 3 platforms ? Is it only to serve as back-up for the Gare d'Austerlitz ?


Those are the "fast" tracks, maybe it was to allow a stop here for suburban trains to/from Austelitz surface station (a possibility now considered to simplify the RER C, bu "cutting" the Dourdan and Etampes branches and turning them in a radial Transilien from Austerlitz terminus with a stop in BFM).


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## 437.001

Minato ku said:


> Look at the gap, unfortunately, platforms can't be heightened or the trains wouldn't pass.
> 
> Saint-Michel Notre-Dame, RER C by Minato ku, sur Flickr


In this case, wouldn't it be advisable to make the gap between train and platform slightly wider to be able to heighten the platforms?

I don't think that would be any worse than what they have now.

All in all, it's a station in a bend, but it doesn't seem worse than Plaça Catalunya in Barcelona, which also has s-bend platforms, and there the platforms were heightened without a problem... same for Estación de Francia, which is in a VERY narrow bend. Both have 68cm high platforms now, making access between train and platform easier, even though the gap is unsolvable. There are also stations on FGC which are "step-free-but-not-gap-free" between train and platform although the station is on a narrow bend (dunno, say, Sant Gervasi or La Floresta).

I think a "mind the gap" is always better than a "mind the gap AND the steps".


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## Stuu

437.001 said:


> In this case, wouldn't it be advisable to make the gap between train and platform slightly wider to be able to heighten the platforms?


Better would be raising the platforms and having gap fillers. RER C only runs at the speed of a dying tortoise in the centre so it's not going to slow things down


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## Arnorian

TER200 said:


> Those are the "fast" tracks, maybe it was to allow a stop here for suburban trains to/from Austelitz surface station (a possibility now considered to simplify the RER C, bu "cutting" the Dourdan and Etampes branches and turning them in a radial Transilien from Austerlitz terminus with a stop in BFM).


This would leave RER C with only one southern branch (to Massy-Palaiseau), considering that Savigny-sur-Orge - Versailles Chantiers will be converted to a part of tram express 12. Did I get this right?


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## 437.001

Arnorian said:


> This would leave RER C with only one southern branch (to Massy-Palaiseau), considering that Savigny-sur-Orge - Versailles Chantiers will be converted to a part of tram express 12. Did I get this right?


If the current "outer belt-faster" RER C services to Dourdan and St-Martin-d'Étampes are "demoted" back to Transilien (that is, finishing at the Paris-Austerlitz surface platforms - those are long routes anyway), and the "outer" Versailles via Savigny and Massy-Palaiseau branch is turned into a tram-train, then the only "southeastern" branches on RER C would be the ones to Massy-Palaiseau via Rungis, and then those on the POLT main line, with some trains terminating at Juvisy, and others at Brétigny.

This would be done to mirror the other end of RER C, with just three branches (Versailles Rive Gauche, St-Quentin-en-Yvelines, and Pontoise via Porte Maillot), which are in fact basically two (Pontoise via Porte Maillot, and the two Versailles routes via Issy, the one to Versailles-Rive Gauche, and the one to St-Quentin-en-Yvelines via Versailles-Chantiers).

I'm not sure whether it's related or not, but heavy works are planned at Brétigny station, I think it was a flyover for the RER C/Transilien trains bound for Dourdan and TER for Châteaudun/Vendôme (and still Tours via Châteaudun?).


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## Minato ku

RER NG


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## Axelferis




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## 437.001

🔼 🔼 🔼
Is there any difference between an MI79 and an MI84 from the outside (I don't mean the livery, but things like windows, doors, etc)?
And inside (seats, etc)?
Can an MI79 be coupled to an MI84?


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## TER200

437.001 said:


> 🔼 🔼 🔼
> Is there any difference between an MI79 and an MI84 from the outside (I don't mean the livery, but things like windows, doors, etc)?
> And inside (seats, etc)?
> Can an MI79 be coupled to an MI84?


1) Ehm... the number on each car 🤓
2) Before renovation, yes, they had different seats (and the 84 also had less seats to get more capacity on RER A).
3) Yes. I think in fact they even ran hybrid trains : Each half of a MI84 rearranged with half of a MI79, then coupled so it had a MI79 cab on each end.


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## Antje

The MI 84 will eventually be distinguishable by not having interactive line maps or luggage racks. The project is to really to liven up the interior while they develop new trains for the RER B, like what they did to the MS 61. Last time I rode on a MI 84 back in 2016, the blue interior walls did not age well.

Source: File:Intérieur MI84 (ZBD8374) par Cramos.JPG - Wikimedia Commons


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## 437.001

TER200 said:


> 3) Yes. I think in fact they even ran hybrid trains : Each half of a MI84 rearranged with half of a MI79, then coupled so it had a MI79 cab on each end.


Why did they do that?


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## TER200

If I remember correctly it was because some system (KCVP probably, which is only used on line B) was not installed immediately in the MI84s when they were transferred from line A.


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## Attus

Considering that it's about RATP I suppose the codes MI79 and MI84 have the same logic like for metro trains, though I have no idea what is I (upper i, the one after M) for.


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## 437.001

Attus said:


> Considering that it's about RATP I suppose the codes MI79 and MI84 have the same logic like for metro trains, though I have no idea what is I (upper i, the one after M) for.


*MI = "matériel d'interconnexion"* (MI79, MI84, MI2N, MI09...).
This means "train that is capable of running on both Sncf and Ratp RER lines".

As opposed to...

*MS = "matériel suburbain"* (MS61). MS61 were able to operate only on Ratp lines.
That is, they could run on the RER A St-Germain-en-Laye branch, but NOT on the Poissy or Cergy branches, while at the other end they could run on both Marne-la-Vallée or Boissy-St-Léger RER A branches.


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## sergiogiorgini

So what are they working towards exactly in terms of platform heights? As we know it's a historical mess, and on the previous page we see the Gare de Lyon platforms being heightened for the RER D. They should also have finished heightening the tracks (thereby lowering the platforms so to speak) at Magenta and Haussmann-St Lazare for RER E by now.

But so for the RER E and D it seems they are working towards a standard of 92cm platforms, also with regards to the new NG stock. The RATP parts of the network (most of RER A and RER B south) are 115cm. But the RATP and SNCF lines still overlap...


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## TER200

sergiogiorgini said:


> The RATP parts of the network (most of RER A and RER B south) are 115cm. But the RATP and SNCF lines still overlap...


Yes, I think in some SNCF stations of those lines the platforms have been rebuilt at 92 cm, with a part at 115 cm for accessibility. There may be some loading gauge issue which prevents 115 cm platforms on some tracks (maybe only in curves ?).

The real mess is RER C, with some of the largest stations having very low platforms (about 38 cm in Saint-Michel-Notre Dame and Versailles Chantiers) and some high platforms (92 cm in Bibliothèque-François Mitterrand). It does not seem decided yet if the future trains will have low (55cm) or high (92cm) access...


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## ZeusUpsistos

*La Défense

















Haussmann - Saint-Lazare *

Photo from this summer :
*







*
Travaux | EOLE - RER E


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## 437.001

TER200 said:


> Yes, I think in some SNCF stations of those lines the platforms have been rebuilt at 92 cm, with a part at 115 cm for accessibility. There may be some loading gauge issue which prevents 115 cm platforms on some tracks (maybe only in curves ?).
> 
> The real mess is RER C, with some of the largest stations having *very low platforms (about* *38 cm in Saint-Michel-Notre Dame and Versailles Chantiers*) and some high platforms (92 cm in Bibliothèque-François Mitterrand). It does not seem decided yet if the future trains will have low (55cm) or high (92cm) access...


I seem to remember that at Versailles-Chantiers they had heightened the platforms.
At least, some of them. Minato_ku, do you remember?
It is true that before it was an absolute mess, you can't have the main Versailles station like that, before doing it it certainly was horrible.

As for St Michel-Notre Dame (RER C), that is another mess.
The station would probably get more passengers.
I think that heightening the platforms is possible, despite it being in an S-bend.



ZeusUpsistos said:


> *La Défense
> 
> View attachment 629148
> *
> 
> Travaux | EOLE - RER E


Am I wrong if I say that this pic above shows the length of La Défense station, and that a track will be to the right of the right-side columns, and the other track will be to the left of the left-side columns?


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## stockholm79

What are they digging?
And why have they built that basement and then buried it in sand?


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## AAlphand

stockholm79 said:


> What are they digging?
> And why have they built that basement and then buried it in sand?


They are digging the new La Défense train E station. The station is under another building : they started with the pillars and the ceiling, which support the existing building, and will only build the floor of the new station at the end.


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## 437.001

I have a question about *Transilien P*.

Trains from Paris-Gare de l'Est to Meaux all call at Chelles-Gournay, and then they call at all stations from Chelles-Gournay to Meaux.
Trains from Paris-Gare de l'Est to La Ferté-Milon all call at Chelles-Gournay off-peak and then all stations to La Ferté-Milon (and during peak hours they are non-stop between Paris and Meaux).
Trains from Paris-Gare de l'Est to Château-Thierry are all non-stop between Paris and Meaux.

So, even if a train doesn't call at Chelles-Gournay (and none call at Noisy-le-Sec), you can change trains at Meaux and/or Trilport and/or Esbly, depending on where you go.

For instance, you can easily change trains if you go from Château-Thierry to La Ferté-Milon or
Crécy-la-Chapelle by doing so at Trilport or Meaux (or even Esbly, depending on the case).
Or if you go from Château-Thierry or La Ferté-Milon to an intermediate RER E station (say, Gagny, for instance). You change at Chelles-Gournay, or at Meaux and then Chelles-Gournay.
It's all okay, or at least, okayish.

*But on the other hand...*

Trains from Paris-Gare de l'Est to Coulommiers are all non-stop between Paris and Tournan.
Trains from Paris-Gare de l'Est to Provins are all non-stop-stop between Paris and Verneuil-L'Étang.

I'll pass from the fact that you cannot change at Noisy-le-Sec for a Meaux-Provins kind of trip.
Or a Bondy-Provins kind of trip.
And also from the fact that changing from Magenta to Gare de l'Est is not very easy.
But... what if you want to go from Coulommiers to Provins by train (or Coulommiers-Troyes, say)?
Do you really have to go to Paris-Gare de l'Est? If yes, I find this a big nonsense.
I understand TER Paris-Troyes not calling at Gretz-Armainvilliers... but they call at Longueville after all.

*So... why Transilien P trains don't call at Gretz-Armainvilliers at all, then?
Is there a logical explanation?

I've looked at all the other Transilien lines, and this doesn't happen.

Let's see:

1) Transilien H (Paris-Gare du Nord to Luzarches, Persan-Beaumont, Valmondois, and Pontoise, and Pontoise to Creil via Valmondois and Persan-Beaumont).*
Trains call at:
-St-Denis (change for RER D)
-Ermont - Eaubonne (change for RER C and Transilien J)
-Cernay (change for RER C)
-Franconville - Le Plessis-Bouchard (change for RER C)
-Montigny - Beauchamp (change for RER C)
-Pierrelaye (change for RER C)
-St-Ouen-l'Aumône - Liesse (change for RER C)
-St-Ouen-l'Aumône (change for RER C)
-Pontoise (change for RER C and Transilien J).

*2) Transilien J (Paris-St Lazare to Ermont-Eaubonne, Gisors, Mantes-la-Jolie via Conflans, and Mantes-la-Jolie/Vernon via Poissy).*
Trains call at:
-Asnières-sur-Seine (change for Transilien L)
-Ermont - Eaubonne (change for RER C and Transilien H)
-Conflans - Fin-d'Oise (change for RER A and Transilien L)
-Pontoise (change for RER C and Transilien H)
-Houilles - Carrières-sur-Seine (change for RER A and Transilien L)
-Poissy (change for RER A)
-Épône - Mézières (change for Transilien N)
-Mantes-la-Jolie (change for Transilien N)

*3) Transilien K (Paris-Gare du Nord to Crépy-en-Valois).*
Trains call at:
-Aulnay-sous-Bois (change for RER B)
-Mitry - Claye (change for RER B)

*4) Transilien L (Paris-St Lazare to Cergy-le-Haut, St Nom-la-Bretèche, and Versailles-Rive Droite).*
Trains call at:
-Asnières-sur-Seine (change for Transilien J)
-Nanterre - Université (change for RER A)
-Houilles - Carrières-sur-Seine (change for RER A and Transilien J)
-Sartrouville (change for RER A)
-Maisons-Laffitte (change for RER A)
-Achères - Ville (change for RER A)
-Conflans - Fin d'Oise (change for RER A and Transilien J)
-Neuville - Université (change for RER A)
-Cergy - Préfecture (change for RER A)
-Cergy - St Christophe (change for RER A)
-Cergy-le-Haut (change for RER A)
-La Défense (change for RER A and Transilien U)
-Puteaux (change for Transilien U)
-Suresnes - Mont-Valérien (change for Transilien U)
-St-Cloud (change for Transilien U)
-Sèvres - Ville-d'Avray (change for Transilien U)
-Chaville - Rive Droite (change for Transilien U)

*5) Transilien N (Paris-Montparnasse to Mantes-la-Jolie, Dreux, and Rambouillet).*
Trains call at:
-Viroflay - Rive Gauche (change for RER C)
-Versailles - Chantiers (change for Transilien U and RER C)
-St-Cyr (change for Transilien U and RER C)
-Épône - Mézières (change for Transilien J)
-Mantes-la-Jolie (change for Transilien J)
-St-Quentin-en-Yvelines (change for Transilien U and RER C)
-Trappes (change for Transilien U)
-La Verrière (change for Transilien U)

*6) Transilien R (Paris-Gare de Lyon to Montargis, Montereau via Fontainebleau, or Montereau via Héricy).*
All trains call at:
-Melun (change for RER D)

*7) Transilien U (La Défense to La Verrière via St Cloud).*
Trains call at:
-La Défense (change for RER A and Transilien L)
-Puteaux (change for Transilien L)
-Suresnes - Mont-Valérien (change for Transilien L)
-St-Cloud (change for Transilien L)
-Sèvres - Ville-d'Avray (change for Transilien L)
-Chaville - Rive Droite (change for Transilien L)
-Versailles - Chantiers (change for RER C and Transilien N)
-St-Cyr (change for RER C and Transilien N)
-St-Quentin-en-Yvelines (change for RER C and Transilien N)
-Trappes (change for Transilien N)
-La Verrière (change for Transilien N).

*I'm not aware of stopping patterns, but there's always a way around non-stopping trains in all cases except for on the southern branch of Transilien P at Gretz-Armainvilliers. 

The same could be said (to a lesser degree) about Transilien P stopping patterns at two more stations, Chelles-Gournay, and Noisy-le-Sec.*


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## ZeusUpsistos

437.001 said:


> Am I wrong if I say that this pic above shows the length of La Défense station, and that a track will be to the right of the right-side columns, and the other track will be to the left of the left-side columns?


You are not wrong. In fact, you are right !



















stockholm79 said:


> What are they digging?
> And why have they built that basement and then buried it in sand?


This is actually quite a complex operation. As AAlphand said, the station is located right beneath the CNIT and they had to replace the foundations of the building to create the new station, which is now supporting the new foundations. These two videos (which are in french but are easy to understand) shows you the entire process :











The cross sectional plane of the station :











437.001 said:


> *So... why Transilien P trains don't call at Gretz-Armainvilliers at all, then?
> Is there a logical explanation?*


I don't really know about the current situation but what I do know is that Line P trains will stop at the new station Bry - Villiers - Champigny in 2026 which will be located between Boullereaux-Champigny and Villiers-sur-Marne - Le Plessis-Trévise.


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## 437.001

ZeusUpsistos said:


> This is actually quite a complex operation. As AAlphand said, the station is located right beneath the CNIT and they had to replace the foundations of the building to create the new station, which is now supporting the new foundations. These two videos (which are in french but are easy to understand) shows you the entire process


Instructive, and rather impressive. 
The new La Défense RER E station looks like an underground cathedral.
It will be bigger than the RER A and Transilien stations, in terms of space at the platforms, won't it?
Or at least, that's the impression I get by looking at the pics and renders.



ZeusUpsistos said:


> I don't really know about the current situation but what I do know is that Line P trains will stop at the new station Bry - Villiers - Champigny in 2026 which will be located between Boullereaux-Champigny and Villiers-sur-Marne - Le Plessis-Trévise.


At least that will be something.
However, I find Transilien P trains not calling at Gretz-Armainvilliers a total nonsense.
I understand that part of this (not calling at Noisy-le-Sec, not calling at Val de Fontenay) are constraints of the exploitation on this line because of the Nogent viaduct, but still, the Gretz-Armainvilliers part... ..._really_?


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## technikLEO

437.001 said:


> Instructive, and rather impressive.
> The new La Défense RER E station looks like an underground cathedral.
> It will be bigger than the RER A and Transilien stations, in terms of space at the platforms, won't it?
> Or at least, that's the impression I get by looking at the pics and renders.
> 
> 
> 
> At least that will be something.
> However, I find Transilien P trains not calling at Gretz-Armainvilliers a total nonsense.
> I understand that part of this (not calling at Noisy-le-Sec, not calling at Val de Fontenay) are constraints of the exploitation on this line because of the Nogent viaduct, but still, the Gretz-Armainvilliers part... ..._really_?


I think it may be liked to the fact that part of Transilien P is not electrified,so the trains are AGC with access 55 cms above the rails while the RER E have trains with access 115 cms above the rail (and 92 cms in the very near future). Or maybe it's just a choice of schedules.
I looked on Wikipedia and I noticed that before 2009, trains were stopping at Gretz but at the time,trains were reorganized to offer more directs trains to Paris. I think that when the electrification will be finished around 2022(work has begin around 2-3 years ago despite being planned since literally decades ), where will be new schedules including a stop at Gretz.
It's also evisionned to stop line P trains to Val de Fontenay since they will now be operated with a Francilien rolling stock with access 92 cms above the rail, allowing for a stop at what will be in the future an interchange not only with the RER A,but also T1,Subway 1 and 15.

Also, a fact about the La Défense station: the undergrouds of La Défense are now so complicated that the subway Line 15 will not have a La Défense station directly next to the existing stations. If we built it in the center,using an existing abandonned "box" designed to support a line 1 extension extension in the 1960's not used by the existing line 1 extension ,the time to build this station without massively stopping the Quatre Temps mall will be so long that it will open in 2040!
So it was moved around a year ago around the Rose de Cherbourg interchange.


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## Majo1972

They’re French style is everything.


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## Axelferis

stockholm79 said:


> What are they digging?
> And why have they built that basement and then buried it in sand?



just in completion :


















La Défense - RER E : une gare cathédrale creusée sous le Cnit | La Gazette de la Défense


Le chantier est titanesque, consistant à creuser sous l’édifice emblématique de la Défense une gare de 23 m de hauteur sous plafond… et ce à plusieurs dizaines de mètres de profondeur, sous les cinq niveaux de parking du Cnit.




lagazette-ladefense.fr


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## TER200

437.001 said:


> Instructive, and rather impressive.
> The new La Défense RER E station looks like an underground cathedral.
> It will be bigger than the RER A and Transilien stations, in terms of space at the platforms, won't it?
> Or at least, that's the impression I get by looking at the pics and renders.


Dunno, but remember it will have only one island platform for both directions, while the RER A station has 2 platforms and 4 tracks (trains in peak hours often alternate between the 2 tracks because of the gigantic number of people coming on or off there).


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## ZeusUpsistos

*La Défense Station























*
Actualités des travaux en gare de La Défense | EOLE - RER E


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## 437.001

*RER E

Nanterre-La Folie station (under construction)*

A very good update.
Posted by @Flo Flo on the French forum 6 days ago.



Flo Flo said:


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## 437.001

*Transilien P*

A question.
Any news regarding the electrification of Gretz-Longueville-Provins (& Longueville-Troyes)?


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## Aim9X

Design reveal of the new MING train for RER B:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1398348984234790919
Does anyone know the industrial workshare between CAF and Bombardier (now Alstom) for the design and production of this train?


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## TokyoImperialPalace

^ Is there a particular reason why the train carriages alternate between double deck and single deck, rather than just having continuous double deck throughout?


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## sergiogiorgini

I believe it's to have an optimal balance between accessible/step-free areas which also offer more standing room for shorter journeys, and areas with more seating for longer journeys. On the RER B specifically there's also the issue of airport passengers and their luggage.


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## Pierre50

Answer to your question is the French way of "Making things simple" (when we can make them complex ....!!)
This is already the situation on Regio 2N trains, manufactured by Bombardier (now Alstom). I understand this alternate is to make room for equipments on the roofs of single deck carriages as well as provide different spaces for short, medium and long distances customers.


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## stockholm79

It's not only the French who have this solution.
The RRX in Germany also uses it.








Fahrzeug


Mehr Platz, mehr Komfort, mehr RRX – Alle Vorteile des RRX übersichtlich erklärt in unserem Modell.




www.rrx.de


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## Attus

stockholm79 said:


> It's not only the French who have this solution.
> The RRX in Germany also uses it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fahrzeug
> 
> 
> Mehr Platz, mehr Komfort, mehr RRX – Alle Vorteile des RRX übersichtlich erklärt in unserem Modell.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rrx.de


It's Sienes Desiro HC: You can see it in other German networks, too:

462.0DB (462 015 A W)
Joachim Lutz, CC BY-SA 4.0 <Creative Commons — Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International — CC BY-SA 4.0>, via Wikimedia Commons


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## Pierre50

The main reason is then most probably the necessity to find room for various equipements


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## SebParis

Pierre50 said:


> The main reason is then most probably the necessity to find room for various equipements


There are enough only double deck EMUs that shouldn't be the reason. From my understanding it is mainly to create accessible space for wheelchairs and bikes.


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## TER200

Pierre50 said:


> This is already the situation on Regio 2N trains


Not really.
The concept of the Regio2N is to separate the doors (in low-floor cars) from the seats (in longer double-deck cars).
On the RER, there are too many stops with too many people getting on and off, so this design can not work. There has to be much more doors for better access ; and also the platforms are high so the doors can be placed above the bogies.


SebParis said:


> There are enough only double deck EMUs that shouldn't be the reason


And in most cases there eire technical closets inside which reduce the floor space.


SebParis said:


> From my understanding it is mainly to create accessible space for wheelchairs and bikes.


For wheelchairs yes, but bikes are not welcomed on the RER.
It also provides more accessible standing room.


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## Minato ku

For the first time I went on the third platform at Denfert-Rochereau on the RER B.

This third platform was built to allow trains from the south to terminate at Denfert Rochereau (allowing transfer to the metro for people coming from the southern suburbs) in case of disruption.

RER B, Denfert-Rochereau by Minato ku, sur Flickr


RER B, Denfert-Rochereau by Minato ku, sur Flickr


RER B, Denfert-Rochereau by Minato ku, sur Flickr


RER B, Denfert-Rochereau by Minato ku, sur Flickr
It's not directly connected to the rest of the station. Passengers have to exit and re-enter the station.

RER B, Denfert-Rochereau by Minato ku, sur Flickr
You can see the third platform on the left.

RER B, Denfert-Rochereau by Minato ku, sur Flickr

While this platform was built just a few years ago, there used to be an old island platform with two tracks there but it was too small for the long train of the RER B and thus only served to park trains.


----------



## Estourbi

A video about the future RER E station Nanterre - La Folie near La Défense.






Construction of a third track between Epône-Mézières and Mantes in preparation of RER E line's extension beyond Poissy to Mantes-la-Jolie. That way, regional trains going from Normandy to Saint-Lazare station won't disrupt RER service.


----------



## Stuu

Why not just build 4 tracks? There looks to be space all the way


----------



## Estourbi

I'm not sure, I couldn't find a definite answer online.
Hopefully, somebody else can answer that question, but in the meanwhile I can only offer a few hypotheses:


*There's actually not enough room*: the section featured in the video is mostly shot next to the Seine River where they had to actually gain land on the river to build, they may be able to gain some more but the option doesn't actually exist on the few kilometers that are away from the river.
*The extra room we see is reserved for other uses: *there was a towpath next to the tracks and they rebuilt it. Of course, it is not used to tow boats anymore but as a promenade/bicycle path. You may argue that there's room for a fourth track and a towpath.
Down in the comments there's mention of the Ligne Nouvelle Paris-Normandie, an ongoing railway project which aims at improving service and travel time between Normandy and Paris. So they may have built the necessary path for a future fourth track but are waiting for the project to be further along and the finances secure to actually lay down the tracks. I still don't know however where that fourth track is supposed to go once the line strays away from the river into land. It all depends how much you trust Youtube comments I suppose.


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## Stuu

The segment along the Seine clearly is wide enough for four tracks, the electrification masts are far wider apart than needed for three tracks - the construction vehicles fit between the new track and the masts which must be similar width to a train. The new bridges in the town do only look wide enough for one track though*, *so will need to be redone if a fourth track is ever added


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## nanar

This is a recurring problem with regard to public infrastructure and equipment in France.
We "optimize" to keep costs as low as possible and, after, saturation occurs faster than expected.
But at the same time we are launching reckless and extremely expensive operations like Grand Paris express project, for which no one knows if we will do it entirely as initially imagined, and how much it will cost in the end.


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## TokyoImperialPalace

^ Grand Paris Express is the type of action needed in most cities of the Anglophone world. I wouldn't call it reckless.


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## nanar

I mean that embarking on the construction of 200 km of fully underground metro, with only 70 stations, some located more than 50 meters deep, IS NOT NECESSARILY THE BEST WAY to invest 22 billion euros (expected cost initially), recently revalued at 38 billion, and final cost including loan annuities that risk exceeding 75 billion euros.

At the same time, existing infrastructure is poorly maintained and deteriorating, there are too few trains to meet traffic demand, and travel conditions are difficult.

But seeing this for example I can understand what you say about needs for public transport in "most cities in Anglophone world"  Google Maps


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## hans280

nanar said:


> I mean that embarking on the construction of 200 km of fully underground metro, with only 70 stations, some located more than 50 meters deep, IS NOT NECESSARILY THE BEST WAY to invest 22 billion euros (expected cost initially), recently revalued at 38 billion, and final cost including loan annuities that risk exceeding 75 billion euros.
> 
> At the same time, existing infrastructure is poorly maintained and deteriorating, there are too few trains to meet traffic demand, and travel conditions are difficult.


This is a problem in many countries - and perhaps especially those with a very centralised exercise of state power. Money is plentiful for new investment projects, on account that they provide politicians with high-level visibility (as well as the leverage that follows from underwriting large public procurement contracts). Conversely the "unglamorous" repairs and maintenance of existing infrastructure is often starved of funds. For example, Paris's RER system fell into disrepair because the available funds were funneled into expanding the TGV network.


----------



## Clery

nanar said:


> I mean that embarking on the construction of 200 km of fully underground metro, with only 70 stations, some located more than 50 meters deep, IS NOT NECESSARILY THE BEST WAY to invest 22 billion euros (expected cost initially), recently revalued at 38 billion, and final cost including loan annuities that risk exceeding 75 billion euros.


22 billion euros is actually the cost of Crossrail in London, with only 21 km of tunnel and 8 underground stations. At 38 billion euros, the cost per km of Grand Paris Express is 5 times cheaper. And the same can be said when comparing with Ontario Line in Toronto or Sydney metro.

But beyond the mere question of public transit, let's not forget that Grand Paris Express is before everything an urbanism project, with over 50 districts entirely built or rebuilt around every new stations. This is a much needed investment which will totally change the shape of most Paris inner suburbs.

It's true that SNCF had historically a poor interest for its Paris suburban rail network considering that it represents a lot of cost for very small benefits for the company, but this is an entirely different problem and the comparison is hardly relevant.


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## 437.001

Stuu said:


> Why not just build 4 tracks? There looks to be space all the way


I'm not so sure about that.

In part of the section between Épône-Mézières and Mantes-Station there are three tracks and room for a fourth one, but the section along the Seine leaves me quite in doubt about the fourth track.



Estourbi said:


> I'm not sure, I couldn't find a definite answer online.


I think that there are several factors.

There is physical space for four tracks between Épône-Mézières and Mantes-Station, and they would be rather welcome, the only thing is that I'm not sure it would be given green light for environmental and bureaucratic reasons.

If you look at the video of the works between Épône-Mëzières and Mantes-Station, the new track has a disproportionately wide trackbed in comparison with the original two tracks. I guess this might be (and please correct me if I'm wrong) because of some EU (or UIC, dunno) regulation that says there should be an extra clearance for new tracks. While in most cases such a regulation would be perfectly fine, in this particular case it is counterproductive, and this maybe also is the case of other commuter rail extensions and upgrades, where there usually isn't a lot of room and that extra room really is needed to cram in as many tracks as possible.

Besides...

Mantes-la-Jolie station is the terminus of the following Transilien services:
a) Transilien J services from Paris St-Lazare to Mantes-la-Jolie via Poissy along the left bank of the Seine ("rive gauche"), the ones which will be replaced by the RER E.
b) Transilien J services from Paris St-Lazare to Mantes-la-Jolie via Conflans along the right bank of the Seine ("rive droite").
c) and also, and crucially, the Transilien N services from Paris Montparnasse to Mantes-la-Jolie via Versailles-Chantiers and Plaisir-Grignon.
Besides, Mantes-la-Jolie station is the junction of the two Normandy main lines, the one to Rouen, Dieppe and Le Havre, and tne one to Évreux, Trouville-Deauville, Caen, St-Lô, and Cherbourg.
Which, all put together, adds a lot of tension to the points at the Paris end of the Mantes-la-Jolie station.
The whole section between Mantes-la-Jolie station and Épône-Mézières station is a bottleneck.

There are six tracks on most of the section between Mantes-la-Jolie and Mantes-Station, but Mantes-Station has only five tracks (and it is impossible to enlarge unless you'd spend an irrationally large sum of money, as it is in a cutting in the middle of the town).

Right after Mantes-Station the two tracks of the Rive Droite line via Conflans diverge, and and then there are two tracks for most of the section between Mantes-Station and Epône-Mézières, a large part of which runs strictly along the Seine, and between the Seine and a mountainside (and a road).

At one point, the two tracks become three (and this section could well have a fourth track in the future, because there is room), and then, Épône-Mézières station has four tracks.

After Épône-Mézières station, the line to Plaisir-Grignon, Versailles, and Paris Montparnasse diverges to the south through a flying junction, and the main bottleneck disappears, as the line continues to Aubergenville-Élisabethville as a three-track line (although a fourth unused track runs alongside it for most of the way between Épône and Aubergenville).

Then there's the rest of the Normandy main line down to Paris St Lazare.

Judge by yourself, this is a cab ride on a Transilien J (to be replaced by the RER E) from Mantes-la-Jolie to Paris St-Lazare (Mantes-la-Jolie maintenance yard is 00:00:00, Mantes-la-Jolie station is 00:02:06, Mantes-Station station is 00:05:09, Épône-Mézières station is 00:11:40, Aubergenville-Élisabethville station is 00:15:09).


----------



## Stuu

437.001 said:


> I'm not so sure about that.


I would be amazed if there wasn't room for another track here, where the excavator and the van are. Why would they have made the electrification structures so much wider if they weren't planning on another track?


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## TER200

This portion should be four-tracked later : the first phase of the project LNPN consists in a new line between Nanterre and Epône, and then following the existing line between Epône and Mantes with 2 dedicated tracks (the other 2 being for the suburban trains).


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## 437.001

*Transilien H*

I have a question.
Have there been talks of a diveunder at *Monsoult-Maffliers station*, to eliminate crossovers at the north end of that station between the trains from Persan-Beaumont (Transilien H) and Beauvais (TER) on one hand, and the trains to Luzarches (Transilien H) on the other?
There seems to be room for a diveunder...


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## ZeusUpsistos

I don't think there are any plans but considering there is only 1 train per hour (2 on rush hours) on each branch on line H, it does seem unnecessary.


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## 437.001

ZeusUpsistos said:


> I don't think there are any plans but considering there is only 1 train per hour (2 on rush hours) on each branch on line H, it does seem unnecessary.


Ok. I thought it was busier.


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## Minato ku

Charles de Gaulle - Etoile.
The corridor linking the westbound partform of the RER A to the Avenue des Champs Elysées/Avenue de Friedland ticket hall was closed for renovation, it has reopened.


Charles de Gaulle Etoile, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Charles de Gaulle Etoile, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Charles de Gaulle Etoile, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Charles de Gaulle Etoile, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Charles de Gaulle Etoile, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Charles de Gaulle Etoile, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr


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## sergiogiorgini

Can anyone expain to me why the RER A stations only serviced by this line still do not have platforms level with the train floors? I understand that the platform height situation is complicated wherever SNCF and RATP meet, wherever rolling stock is mixed and and on the heritage network, but none of these issues apply on a station like Auber or Nation.


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## ZeusUpsistos

*Porte Maillot*

















































Les travaux de la porte Maillot en images | EOLE - RER E


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## Minato ku

Paris, the summer and its usual work.
This year, well there are work everywere. Not a single RER without any closure.

The less affected is the RER D.
















*Gare de Lyon*

The two northbound platforms (platforms 2 and 4) are closed for heightening the platforms to provide a gap free access with the new Z 58500 stock.
All the northbound traffic have been transfered to one of the southbound platform (platform 3). Heighteneing work was done last year for this section.
_SNCF doesn't put platform numbers in numerical order but put them by even and uneven numbers together. So platform 1 is next to platform 3 and platform 2 is next to platform 4._

Gare de Lyon, RER D travaux by Minato ku, sur Flickr
Good point for the signage that was perfectly updated. It doesn't even look like provisional signs.
Visitors will not be lost.

Gare de Lyon, RER D travaux by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Gare de Lyon, RER D travaux by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Gare de Lyon, RER D travaux by Minato ku, sur Flickr
The bad point is the service.
A combination of lower frequencies and a disruption. It means that trains were very crowded during this evening rush hours.

Gare de Lyon, RER D by Minato ku, sur Flickr

Northbound train on a platform normally used for southbound.
Spaces between the southbound platforms and northbound platforms are covered to prevent construction dust from fulling the spaces in service.

Gare de Lyon, RER D by Minato ku, sur Flickr


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## Minato ku

The worst afftected RER line by the closure is the RER C.
All the western part of the RER C is closed until August 21. It's the first time they went that far.

Unusual, the section between Saint-Michel Notre Dame and Musée d'Orsay remains open this time (it was closed every summers since 1996). It proves that those former works were effective ! 😆


RER C, fermeture été 2021 by Minato ku, sur Flickr


RER C, fermeture été 2021 by Minato ku, sur Flickr

Unless you are crazy or you have a lot of time, do not try to reach Versailles from Central Paris by the RER C. It's still possible with the branch to Versailles Chantiers by Juvisy and Massy Palaiseau but it's a long detour.
Announcements direct people to the Transilien N from Montparnasse terminal.


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## sergiogiorgini

I've taken the RER C sporadically over the past year and I've regretted it every single time. I knew about the annual summer works and that the line has a reputation for being slow but it boggles the mind how long it can take to reach Central Paris and how few trains actually behave like an RER line and pass through the city. For pretty much every RER C trajectory you're better off taking two/three other lines. And I still don't really understand how it has to be this bad.


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## John.S

On a vu ça?






J'aime bien le troisième dessin du visage.


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## Minato ku

*Val de Fontenay*

You may wonder why or since when Transilien P is serving Val de Fontenay. 
Usually, Val de Fontenay is only served by RER (lower level : RER A and upper level RER E) but due to the closure of the Central Paris tunnel for work, of the RER E, trains are redirected to Gare de l'Est. It means lower frequencies for the RER E.

Because of this, during the closure, the Transilien P services to or from Coulommiers stop at Val de Fontenay station.

We begin with two RER E arriving at the same time.
Right : Z50000 from Villiers sur Marne, this train serves every stations to Gare de l'Est

Val de Fontenay, RER E by Minato ku, sur Flickr
Left : Z 22500 or MI2N Eole from Tournan, this train is express and only serves Rosa Parks and Gare de l'Est stations. 

Val de Fontenay, RER E by Minato ku, sur Flickr
It's pretty clever, passengers can switch between express and local services _(this is not unique and is pretty common elsewhere as well)_. This service pattern is usual and has nothing to do with service changes due to the closure of Central Paris tunnel. It's also the same of the opposite direction. 

Val de Fontenay, RER E by Minato ku, sur Flickr
After the departure of the MI2N, a B 82500 of Transilien P service to Provin passing through the station but it doesn't stop. B 82500 are electro-diesel multiple unit trains.

Val de Fontenay, B 82500 by Minato ku, sur Flickr

Here the unusual thing : a Z 50000 of Transilien P from Coulommiers stopping at Val de Fontenay. It's a direct service no stop until Gare de l'Est. Usually those trains don't stop between Tournan and Gare de l'Est.
It arrived just a few minute after the departure of the RER E express service from Tournan but it arrived sooner at Gare de l'Est. The overtaking was done at Rosa Parks. 

Val de Fontenay, Transilien P by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Transilien P, Val de Fontenay by Minato ku, sur Flickr

So until August 28, Val de Fontenay is also a Transilien P station for the Paris Est to Coulommiers services.


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## 437.001

Minato ku said:


> After the departure of the MI2N, a B 82500 of Transilien P service to Provin passing through the station but it doesn't stop. B 82500 are electro-diesel multiple unit trains.


How's the electrification between Gretz and Troyes, and between Longueville and Provins?
Is it advancing?


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## Minato ku

It should be completed next year.

In May 2022, B 82500 will run in fully electric mode on Paris - Provins and then by the end of July 2022, Z 50000 will be put in service for this route.

_Updated informations on the comment section._
Votre ligne s'électrifie ⚡


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## alexandru.mircea

sergiogiorgini said:


> I've taken the RER C sporadically over the past year and I've regretted it every single time. I knew about the annual summer works and that the line has a reputation for being slow but it boggles the mind how long it can take to reach Central Paris and how few trains actually behave like an RER line and pass through the city. For pretty much every RER C trajectory you're better off taking two/three other lines. And I still don't really understand how it has to be this bad.


I take line C regularly for South-Eastern destinations (Ivry, Vitry, Juvisy, Brétigny etc) and I enjoy it, it works very well. And there are some absolute gems on that line, like the Chamarande domain. There are some lovely medieval towns towards the ends of these SE branches on line C that I want to visit someday, like Dourdan, Etampes or Arpajon. As for the Western destinations that are slow to reach from central Paris, like Pontoise or Versailles, thankfuly they are served by other lines as well, so I never take the C that way.


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## SebParis

Starting next year the maximum price for a single trip in Ile-de-France will be 5 Euros (airport trips are excluded). Right now the most costly trips are about 9 Euros.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1437805207455510536


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## BillyF

Discover the renovated railway station of Nogent sur Marne, on the RER A :


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## 437.001

*RER E*

A short video about the works at *La Défense* station, nicknamed "the cathedral".


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## ZeusUpsistos

The chosen design for the MI20.


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## SebParis

To add:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441363561347891209
Buying standard trains for RER B and D would have allowed to build a new tunnel, so one would have enough capacity to not need expensive bilevel trains.


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## Pierre50

Can someone give different sources to justify the ""twice the normal European average"" ? Of course these sources have to be for bi level trains.
That will provide an interesting comparison of trains in different European countries.


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## Aim9X

SebParis said:


> To add:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441363561347891209
> Buying standard trains for RER B and D would have allowed to build a new tunnel, so one would have enough capacity to not need expensive bilevel trains.


Due to the design of some stations on line B, I'm not sure if the RER NG could serve on RER B anyway.


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## Stuu

The last big order in the UK for similar trains works out to about £66,000 per m of train car, which is about €80k/m. Which is exactly half. But there will be specific technical characteristics for Line B, and more importantly, does the cost for these trains include 20 years of maintenance or anything like that? It's usually nothing like as simple as comparing the costs per m of car


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## SebParis

Pierre50 said:


> Can someone give different sources to justify the ""twice the normal European average"" ? Of course these sources have to be for bi level trains.
> That will provide an interesting comparison of trains in different European countries.


They expanded with lots of sources for European train orders.



Aim9X said:


> Due to the design of some stations on line B, I'm not sure if the RER NG could serve on RER B anyway.


From my understanding it's mostly the Robinson branch. So making it a shuttle and buying a small train with could run with higher frequency would benefit everyone.



Stuu said:


> The last big order in the UK for similar trains works out to about £66,000 per m of train car, which is about €80k/m. Which is exactly half. But there will be specific technical characteristics for Line B, and more importantly, does the cost for these trains include 20 years of maintenance or anything like that? It's usually nothing like as simple as comparing the costs per m of car


I didn't read anything about maintenance for this order. Maintenance is done by SNCF and RATP.


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## Stuu

SebParis said:


> I didn't read anything about maintenance for this order. Maintenance is done by SNCF and RATP.


Ok.. the links from the tweet talk about a programme of changes along line b, and a new maintenance depot etc, perhaps those are included in the headline figure? Politicians all love big numbers... Alstom's press release doesn't mention the contract value either.

Anyway, whatever the reason, cost per m is a poor metric to use to compare


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## SebParis

Forgot to add the blogpost Paris, World Capital of Expensive Regional Trains



Stuu said:


> Anyway, whatever the reason, cost per m is a poor metric to use to compare


Any better idea? It's not perfect, but can give you a rough estimate if it's cheap, normal priced or expensive.


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## TER200

SebParis said:


> Forgot to add the blogpost Paris, World Capital of Expensive Regional Trains


The author fails to understand than a "vanilla" double-decker designed for regional or intercity use would be the worst possible rolling stock for a RER. Just look at the Z2Ns currently used on lines C and D.

Of the examples cited, only the new X'trapolis for Cercanias gets close to the requirements in number of doors (12 on a 100 m train, the MI20 has 14 and wider) and falls short of the requirements in capacity (both total and seated) (which is partially due to the low-floor maybe) ; it is also signficantly less powerful and slower accelerating than the current MI79.


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## Pierre50

Stuu said:


> The last big order in the UK for similar trains works out to about £66,000 per m of train car, which is about €80k/m. Which is exactly half. But there will be specific technical characteristics for Line B, and more importantly, does the cost for these trains include 20 years of maintenance or anything like that? It's usually nothing like as simple as comparing the costs per m of car


OK. 
Although the cost / m is not ideal and doesn't reflect the elements of the contract, the 66 k£ you are talking about are for bi level trains ? Which trains are you réflecting to ? Elisabeth Line ?

Another possible metric could be cost (or price ??) / elementary capacity (whatever standing or seated), knowing that the peak hours capacity is not measured the same way in different countries.


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## Pierre50

It is totally true to say that decision makers in France LOVE to have "their own trains / trams / bus / métro trains". So for a standard designby an industrial compagny you can have severe variations. We have in France an excellent example with the Citadis Tramway, very much delivered in many networks, no one being identical to another one. I'm not talking of differences like widts (which can be discussed for brand new networks).If we look to buses it is absolutely money wasting to imagine such luxurious decorations or appendices, to be sure that "my bus will be higher standard than my colleague's one".

Regarding RER trains in Ile de France, why was it necessary to design new trains RER NG (RER E) or MI 20 (RER B), knowing that the design of MI 09 was not so old, and series could have been much longer to ensure a mastered price, hence coming to a much lower price / m ?

I agree totally to the comment made about Regio 2N, designed for regional services, but not adapted to severe services like RER D or suburban trains in Ile de France


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## TER200

Pierre50 said:


> Regarding RER trains in Ile de France, why was it necessary to design new trains RER NG (RER E) or MI 20 (RER B), knowing that the design of MI 09 was not so old


Mostly :

adequacy to a lower access height (92 cm instead of 120) for lines D and E, which means smaller wheels, which in turn need lighter and thus shorter cars, also a version 130 m long was wanted.
adequacy to a shorter train (10 m instead of 112,5) for RER B, and also some platforms in curves which can't be properly served by a car that has a door in the middle.

Designing a double-deck train is a very complex compromise between issues that are mostly irrelevant on a single-deck train. That's why we have so many different double-decker architectures.


----------



## Stuu

Pierre50 said:


> OK.
> Although the cost / m is not ideal and doesn't reflect the elements of the contract, the 66 k£ you are talking about are for bi level trains ? Which trains are you réflecting to ? Elisabeth Line ?
> 
> Another possible metric could be cost (or price ??) / elementary capacity (whatever standing or seated), knowing that the peak hours capacity is not measured the same way in different countries.


I was using the Class 701 trains for South West Trains as the comparison, they are an updated version of the Elizabeth line trains. They are all single deck, 5 and 10 car units (100 and 200m long)

Cost per passenger km per year might be better, I'm not really sure. But simply comparing costs per m takes no account of the expensive parts which are the traction motors/electric controls, and the signalling system. A train designed for the intense service on RER B is going to be more complicated, more powerful, more reliable and therefore more expensive than a regional train

I'm not sure the bespoke designs which France goes for actually adds much, as I just said it is the technology which costs the money. There is obviously some cost to doing things differently but trains/trams are built much more by hand than cars for example, so it's not as big a deal to change the outward appearance


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## TER200

SebParis said:


> I didn't read anything about maintenance for this order. Maintenance is done by SNCF and RATP.


True, however the announced price tag may include spare parts ?


----------



## ZeusUpsistos

*Saint-Michel - Notre-Dame*

Renovation project of the centenary station.


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## Neric007

This looks very good considering the existing space and constraints. Definitely a huge improvement !


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## GGuerra

About the same subject.
Réhabilitation - Et la lumière fusera (lemoniteur.fr)
To be done in 2022-2023.
We'll see...



ZeusUpsistos said:


> *Saint-Michel - Notre-Dame*
> 
> Renovation project of the centenary station.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2216264
> 
> View attachment 2216265
> 
> View attachment 2216266
> 
> View attachment 2216268





ZeusUpsistos said:


> *Saint-Michel - Notre-Dame*
> 
> Renovation project of the centenary station.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2216264
> 
> View attachment 2216265
> 
> View attachment 2216266
> 
> View attachment 2216268


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## ZeusUpsistos

No RER NG before summer 2023. The cause of that would be the new signalling system Nexteo.






The new RER D and E will arrive two years late







remonews.com


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## SebParis

RER E's connection at La Defense are slowly being built:


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## Minato ku

*Auber*

For the 50th anniversary of the station, it opened on 23 November 1971. A view of the progress of the renovation work.

From Rue Auber/Boulevard Haussmann entrance in the middle of the station

Auber, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Auber, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr
Construction of new shops.
Note that's just half of the station hall, the other half is behind us.

Auber, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Auber, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr
Find the error. Answer: it's the name of the RER E station. It's written "Havre - Caumartin" instead of "Haussmann Saint-Lazare".

Auber, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr
Platforms under the hall. Auber is a giant underground vault with ticket halls, hall and platforms being superposed

Auber, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Auber, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr
New signages highlight the possible transfer to Gare Saint-Lazare, what wasn't visible before.

Auber, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Auber, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr
Instead of tiles, they opted for cladding panels.

Auber, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr


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## gt670dn

I wonder why the Metro 12 is not shown on the sign, but Saint-Lazare station is there, which is a longer walk from Auber.


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## evanzai

> Find the error.


Lines 12, 13, 14, J, L at Saint-Lazare are missing ! (but a 11-line interchange may be scary)


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## Minato ku

They didn't indicate the lines at Saint-Lazare, just the station.

At Haussmann-Saint-Lazare on the RER E, they put literally everything. 
_Both pannels are near to each other but they lead to different part._

Haussmann Saint-Lazare correspondances by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Haussmann Saint-Lazare correspondances by Minato ku, sur Flickr

It's a rather long transfer from this corridor to lines 7 and 8, you have to cross all the length of Haussmann Saint-Lazare, then a bit of Havre-Caumartin, all the length of Auber and many corridors at Opera.
Not to forget three ticket gates to pass thru. 😄


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## gt670dn

Next time in Paris I have to check if it would be faster to take line 3 from Havre-Caumartin one stop to Opera. But if I remember correctly that is also a bit complicated because there is no direct way up from the upper Auber corridor to eastbound line 3.


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## fabricofparis

Take line 3 from Havre-Caumartin, or Saint-Lazare? Saint-Lazare would be two stops to Opéra, but presumably it's nearer from the corridor @Minato ku posted? The signs there only point to Saint-Lazare for the 3...


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## gt670dn

I meant the 3 from Havre-Caumartin, walking along the entire platform of line 13 at Saint-Lazare to reach the 3 there can't possibly be faster than walking from Haussmann to Opera.


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## fabricofparis

gt670dn said:


> I meant the 3 from Havre-Caumartin, walking along the entire platform of line 13 at Saint-Lazare to reach the 3 there can't possibly be faster than walking from Haussmann to Opera.


Now you say that, I remember something. I used to work right next to an exit of Haussmann - Saint-Lazare, and I normally walked on the street to Havre-Caumartin to take the 3 home. But one day it was raining heavily so I decided to go underground at Haussmann, still planning to take the 3 at Havre-Caumartin. Of course, I followed the signs for line 3, and ended up going all the way to the Saint-Lazare platforms. It was indeed a long walk! I wonder why they signpost Saint-Lazare for the 3 and not Havre-Caumartin...


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## Stuu

I spent a while working in Paris, my employer put me up in a hotel near Opéra and I was working near Malesherbes on line 3. One day when I was a bit bored I decided to go in through the entrance at Opéra and catch the 3 from St Lazare. A very long way indeed, and not even the longest possible transfer (Saint-Augustine is even further I think)


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## Hourdel

There is a video about this complex :




It's in French but you can put english subtitles.


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## ZeusUpsistos

Minato ku said:


> Auber, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr


A render for those wondering how it look eventually, the new ceilings are still missing.


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## stockholm79

Looks like a brothel with the reflective red ceiling. 
Well, at least how I imagine one


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## Minato ku

Red as it was.
Auber in December 2012, before the renovation.

Auber, RER A by Minato ku, sur Flickr


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## 437.001

*RER E*

A video of the works for the *3rd track between Épône-Mézières and Mantes-Station*, for the extension of the RER E from Haussmann-St Lazare to Mantes-la-Jolie.


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## Hourdel

*Porte Maillot*
Some pictures of the work this autumn.

Above the platforms and tracks level :

















Hall between RER C and RER E stations :
















To the tunnel :
























https://www.rer-eole.fr/actualite/travaux-porte-maillot-de-cet-automne/


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## 437.001

*RER E*

A new video. 😶


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## BillyF

MI09 on the RER A in Cergy Préfecture station


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## 437.001

A few thoughts... 

*RER E*

For what I read, the RER E will be the most interconnected commuter rail line in Paris.

Even though this line won't be as straight as the RER A between Les Ivrys - Noisy-le-Grand in the east, and Poissy in the west, it will still offer more interchanges, while covering significant areas already covered by the RER A, and a couple places in central Paris that the RER A does not (while offering new connections to RER/Transilien lines precisely in those places).
Isn't there a risk of instant severe overcrowding? What do you think? 

=================================================================

*RER D, future RER F (& the problem of Châtelet-Gare du Nord)*

I've had a thought about the problem of the Châtelet-Gare du Nord tunnel.
It would be very expensive to solve, but... what... if... 
😶
 ...RER D split?:

a) New tunnel between somewhere east of Châtelet towards Saint-Lazare, to connect there with some Transilien line, probably Transilien J (I guess the Ermont - Eaubonne and the Pontoise/Boissy-L'Aillerie branches are the ones which look best). East of Châtelet as usual (Melun, Corbeil, etc). The problem would be where else would you cram in even more underground platforms in the Saint-Lazare area.

b) New tunnel between somewhere north of Gare du Nord and Montparnasse, with intermediate station at Auber (if they can cram it in somewhere in the area, which won't be easy) and Musée d'Orsay (for RER C). At Montparnasse it should take over the Transilien N services to Sèvres-Rive Gauche, Plaisir-Grignon and probably Rambouillet. North of Gare du Nord as usual (Goussainville, Orry, Creil, etc), or perhaps with the addition of a Transilien H branch (Pontoise?), and/or the reopening for passengers of the line between Gare du Nord and Les Grésillons via Garibaldi (and then services to... Gennevilliers?).

The usual narrative about a sixth RER line (RER F) would be a Saint-Lazare to Montparnasse connection, but even though it would solve many things, the problem would also be the connection of two of the not most used Transiliens.
Hence my idea of an RER D split with new tunnels (while Transilien L is almost untouchable as it already is at capacity and there's also the issue of its coexistence with Transilien U).

Any thoughts? (I mean, aside of it being really very expensive)


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## TER200

437.001 said:


> Isn't there a risk of instant severe overcrowding? What do you think?


They built RER A to relieve overcrowding on M1. Then they built M14, RER D and RER E to relieve the severe overcrowding on RER A. M14 is already crowded, RER D too... and you suggest RER E may also be overcrowded ? Strange idea 

The patronage projection for RER E after the extension is about 615 000 travellers per day, but since those projections often under-estimate the reality...




437.001 said:


> Any thoughts? (I mean, aside of it being really very expensive)


I don't know if it would serve the demand better than the old scheme for RER F. 
Anyway it would require to build 2 new stations near Châtelet and Gare du Nord (plus Saint-Lazare/Auber and Montparnasse and maybe others in-between), and also lots of work on the existing lines : 

platform lengthening on the north-west part (from 190 to 260 m), here the train length is currently limited by the Saint-Lazare station.
platform heightening on the south-west part, which in turn mean complete segregation between the RER and medium-distance (regional) services. Also line N is too long and has too many branches for a RER service (with some tracks shared with lines C and U in the Porchefontaine noodle plate).


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## 437.001

TER200 said:


> They built RER A to relieve overcrowding on M1. Then they built M14, RER D and RER E to relieve the severe overcrowding on RER A. M14 is already crowded, RER D too... and you suggest RER E may also be overcrowded ? Strange idea
> The patronage projection for RER E after the extension is about 615 000 travellers per day, but since those projections often under-estimate the reality...


Yeah, that's what I suspect.
But being more precise, I think there are a few potential points of conflict.

A) Val de Fontenay. The RER E platforms there, while not particularly narrow, aren't the largest either, and that station is also becoming a hub, and not just for interchanges. With the arrival of metro line 1 and tram T1, things will only worsen.

B) Chelles - Gournay. A lot of people will change there to/from the Transilien P, and in the future also the metro line 16. Is that station prepared to handle big amounts of people? 

C) Magenta. How easy is the interchange between Magenta and Gare du Nord (aka RER E to/from RER B/RER D)? Magenta and Gare de l'Est is crap, this we already know.

D) Porte Maillot RER C. Luckily the RER C platforms are rather wide there, but... do you think they will be able to cope durink the peak hours? That will be a rather fast access from both eastern and western Île-de-France to the area of Porte de Clichy and Batignolles, which is developing rather fast, for what I read. Not to talk about people coming all the way from Gennevilliers, Ermont, Pontoise, etc, and changing at Porte Maillot. What I'm not certain about is the effect RER E will have on stations such as Boulainvilliers and etc, which seem pretty quiet nowadays.

E) Houilles - Carrières-sur-Seine. Many people will change there to avoid Nanterre and La Défense. And that station has not very wide platforms.

F) The critical section between Poissy and Vernouillet - Verneuil, which is impossible to four-track, and contains the Villennes-sur-Seine level crossing, which is nearly impossible to eliminate. Thankfully most RER E trains will stop at Nanterre, but any incident down the Seine between those two stations might bug a lot of people's journeys.

G) Mantes-Station. That station has rather narrow platforms. It won't be the busiest, but it will become busier than it is now.



TER200 said:


> I don't know if it would serve the demand better than the old scheme for RER F.
> Anyway it would require to build 2 new stations near Châtelet and Gare du Nord (plus Saint-Lazare/Auber and Montparnasse and maybe others in-between),


For the north-south route I'd say Musée d'Orsay.



TER200 said:


> and also lots of work on the existing lines :
> 
> platform lengthening on the north-west part (from 190 to 260 m), here the train length is currently limited by the Saint-Lazare station.
> platform heightening on the south-west part, which in turn mean complete segregation between the RER and medium-distance (regional) services. Also line N is too long and has too many branches for a RER service (with some tracks shared with lines C and U in the Porchefontaine noodle plate).


I'd pick Sèvres-Rive Gauche, Plaisir-Grignon and Rambouillet services. Not Mantes, Montfort, or Dreux.
If you find the Rambouillet thing too long, then Montfort instead.


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## TER200

437.001 said:


> G) Mantes-Station. That station has rather narrow platforms. It won't be the busiest, but it will become busier than it is now.


The trains will be rather empty there, so how likely is is to be a problem (even if the people don't spread and all board in the same part of the train) ?



437.001 said:


> D) Porte Maillot RER C.


The RER C is rather slow and infrequent there... I don't think overcrowding is ever an issue on this line, but maybe.



437.001 said:


> C) Magenta. How easy is the interchange between Magenta and Gare du Nord (aka RER E to/from RER B/RER D)?


Not the shortest... thankfully the station Magenta itself is huge, with 4 tracks and wide platforms... which makes me think of :
H) La Défense
Magenta and Haussmann-Saint-Lazare were future-proofed with 4 tracks for alternate use, allowing higher frequency. But neither Porte-Laillot nor La Défense (nor Rosa Parks) have more than 2 tracks.
The RER A makes use of its 4 tracks in La Défense, where trains alternate in rush hours due to the long dwell times (and even though the other stations of the core section don't have this possibility). It's a bit disappointing that both east-west RER lines will have 1 or 2 four-track station in he core section, but none will be able to make best use of it since most stations have only 2 tracks.


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## SebParis

437.001 said:


> Any thoughts? (I mean, aside of it being really very expensive)


I had a similar idea.
For the Gare du Nord to Montparnasse section:
I would probably put the station at Invalides instead of Musée d'Orsay as it provides also connection to M8 and M13, while it can be built cut and cover.
The other station fits neatly under Boulevard de Capucines between Opera and Madeleine. It provides connection to RER A and M3, M7, M8 and M14 with M12 a bit of a longer walk away.

For the Châtelet to Saint-Lazare section, one could also use the other tracks of the RER E station, so cross platform change would be possible. Else one can cramp it under Saint-Lazare itself.

The real problem is the mess of tunnels north of Châtelet, it is probably possible, but also complicated to let the RER D have their own tunnel. During construction one could cut the RER D, as the RER B could easily have higher frequency and provide easy transfer.

For cost it is not too expensive. For the Châtelet to Saint-Lazare section it is between 4-5km of new tunnels and zero or one new station.
For the Gare du Nord to Montparnasse, it is between 7-8km with 3 new stations.

The tunnel part of the RER E extension was 2,1 billion euros before the latest cost overrun and has 8km of tunnels and 2 stations.

So the whole project is about two EOLE which would cost about 6b Euros (hopefully we figure out how to save some money, but not on quality). This would provide capacity of 2 million RER passengers a day. It would complement the Grand Paris Express well as it provides fast transversal trips in the whole of Grand Paris. I feel like this would 



TER200 said:


> I don't know if it would serve the demand better than the old scheme for RER F.


It would provide connection from the RER D north and south to the business center and more diagonal through running. As well as better connectivity between the RER lines.
Especially it would relieve the RER B as it would have a tunnel on it's own!


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## Hourdel

437.001 said:


> A) Val de Fontenay. The RER E platforms there, while not particularly narrow, aren't the largest either, and that station is also becoming a hub, and not just for interchanges. With the arrival of metro line 1 and tram T1, things will only worsen.


Val de Fontenay will have an important refurbishement in the next years. It won't be complete before RER E extension opens but SNCF will make short term improvements.


> recommendation 3, making the RER E platforms safe: Île-de-France Mobilités will ask SNCF Gares & Connexions to carry out the desaturation and accessibility operation on the RER E at Val de Fontenay as soon as possible and, while waiting for the structural improvements, to implement short-term measures;



















Approbation de la déclaration de projet - Val de Fontenay - Grand Paris des Gares


Suite à l’enquête publique qui s’est tenue du 23 avril au 26 mai 2021, et à l’avis favorable de la commissaire enquêtrice sur le projet rendu fin juillet, le Conseil d’administration d’Île-de-France Mobilités a approuvé le 11 octobre 2021 la … Lire la suite




www.reamenagement-gare-val-de-fontenay.fr







437.001 said:


> C) Magenta. How easy is the interchange between Magenta and Gare du Nord (aka RER E to/from RER B/RER D)? Magenta and Gare de l'Est is crap, this we already know.


The interchange between RER B/D platforms and Magenta is not easy I think, I must try it one day to see how long it is. Between Magenta and Gare de l'Est a tunnel will be built, or is already being built as a part of the works for CDG Express, but it is not easy to have information (the website of this project is no longer up to date since... 2017).


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## SebParis

Hourdel said:


> The interchange between RER B/D platforms and Magenta is not easy I think, I must try it one day to see how long it is. Between Magenta and Gare de l'Est a tunnel will be built, or is already being built as a part of the works for CDG Express, but it is not easy to have information (the website of this project is no longer up to date since... 2017).


Citymapper says it takes 4 minutes for the change from RER E to RER B/D and the corridors are spacious. You can look up the diagrams of in this document page 86 to page 89 https://www.nouvelle-liaison-gare-n...ques_principales_dcop/DOCP-LGNE-STIF-2015.pdf

Currently there are 120k changes between Gare du Nord and Magenta a day.


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## 437.001

TER200 said:


> The trains will be rather empty there, so how likely is is to be a problem (even if the people don't spread and all board in the same part of the train) ?


I know, but there will be more passengers anyway, and that station has non-stop trains.
I probably exaggerated on this, but... 



TER200 said:


> The RER C is rather slow and infrequent there... I don't think overcrowding is ever an issue on this line, but maybe.


Me, I'm rather intrigued about the effect of the interchange between RER C and RER E.



TER200 said:


> Not the shortest... thankfully the station Magenta itself is huge, with 4 tracks and wide platforms...


That yes, but if the transfer to both Gare du Nord and Gare de l'Est is not ideal, hmmm. 



TER200 said:


> which makes me think of :
> H) La Défense
> Magenta and Haussmann-Saint-Lazare were future-proofed with 4 tracks for alternate use, allowing higher frequency. But neither Porte-Maillot nor La Défense (nor Rosa Parks) have more than 2 tracks.





TER200 said:


> The RER A makes use of its 4 tracks in La Défense, where trains alternate in rush hours due to the long dwell times (and even though the other stations of the core section don't have this possibility). It's a bit disappointing that both east-west RER lines will have 1 or 2 four-track station in he core section, but none will be able to make best use of it since most stations have only 2 tracks.


I don't know how much of an issue this will be. It might be one, though, that's clear.
Porte Maillot and Rosa Parks have only two platforms, yes, and La Défense-RER E has only two, too.
But it is also true that the RER A has Val de Fontenay, Vincennes, Nation, Châtelet, Auber, CdG-Étoile with just two, and that's less than what the RER E will have... 

Having just two platforms at La Défense, with the well-known problem of dwell time due to the sheer number of passengers boarding/alighting there, might probably be a bit of an issue, if the increase in passenger numbers on the RER E happens to exceed expectations, which is a likely scenario.

That said, it is also true that the RER E won't have the RER A issue of every train being already crowded when arriving at La Défense from the west, since, at least until the case of RER E taking over an RER A branch happens (which I guess could be the Poissy one, as that would simplify things quite a bit, as the Cergy one is the busiest western RER A branch, and the St-Germain one is unfeasible), as most eastbound RER E trains will arrive at La Défense not full, because many of them will start at Nanterre-La Folie.

That said, I expect every train bound for Les Mureaux or Mantes to be absolutely packed on departure from La Défense, that will probably become a point of conflict, as many people to/from Poissy and Houilles will quit RER A for RER E, in the (vain?) hope of finding seats, or at least some breathing space that's not part of someone else's body. 

Which leads to (again)... capacity on the Normandy main line.
After watching this afternoon and for the umpteenth time a cab ride of a Transilien J between Mantes and St-Lazare via Poissy, I come to the following conclusions:

a) It _*MAY*_ be possible to _*PERHAPS*_ cram in a sixth track between Mantes-la-Jolie and Mantes-Station, but that would involve a massive upgrade of Mantes-Station, and probably also its relocation to the point where the Poissy and Conflans lines diverge.

b) Mantes-Station to Les Mureaux is easily four-trackable... but that would involve big upgrade works at Les Mureaux station, as the platform layout would have to change to leave extra room for the fast tracks.

c) Vernouillet-Verneuil to Poissy might perhaps be three- or even four-trackable between Vernouillet and Médan, and between Poissy and somewhere east of Villennes-sur-Seine.
The Villennes level crossing has to go as soon as possible, if that is feasible.

d) There is room to add two extra tracks between Houilles and the Bezons junction, but that would have to involve a fourth track on the Bezons bridge. I'm not sure whether that can imply any gain in capacity or not. Reliability probably yes, but just a bit.

e) do you think there is room at Houilles station to leave a track-platform layout such as:

*platform-2 RER A tracks-platform-1 RER E track-2 mainline non-platform tracks-1 RER E track-platform*

...?


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## 437.001

SebParis said:


> I had a similar idea.






SebParis said:


> For the Gare du Nord to Montparnasse section:
> I would probably put the station at Invalides instead of Musée d'Orsay as it provides also connection to M8 and M13, while it can be built cut and cover.
> The other station fits neatly under Boulevard de Capucines between Opera and Madeleine. It provides connection to RER A and M3, M7, M8 and M14 with M12 a bit of a longer walk away.


I think I like that. 



SebParis said:


> For the Châtelet to Saint-Lazare section, one could also use the other tracks of the RER E station, so cross platform change would be possible. Else one can cramp it under Saint-Lazare itself.


I don't think it would be a very good idea to mess much with RER E until we get the full picture of the passenger flows once the extension to Mantes is open.



SebParis said:


> The real problem is the mess of tunnels north of Châtelet, it is probably possible, but also complicated to let the RER D have their own tunnel. During construction one could cut the RER D, as the RER B could easily have higher frequency and provide easy transfer.


I actually meant a new Châtelet station exclusive for RER D, somewhere near the current one.
The current RER D platforms could perhaps be re-used for enhancing RER A and RER B capacity.



SebParis said:


> For cost it is not too expensive. For the Châtelet to Saint-Lazare section it is between 4-5km of new tunnels and zero or one new station.
> For the Gare du Nord to Montparnasse, it is between 7-8km with 3 new stations.
> 
> The tunnel part of the RER E extension was 2,1 billion euros before the latest cost overrun and has 8km of tunnels and 2 stations.


Good to know. 



SebParis said:


> So the whole project is about two EOLE which would cost about 6b Euros (hopefully we figure out how to save some money, but not on quality). This would provide capacity of 2 million RER passengers a day. It would complement the Grand Paris Express well as it provides fast transversal trips in the whole of Grand Paris.


I like how it sounds too, as the capacity increase would be massive (and the passenger numbers probably would, too).

That said, my nº1 option is still the Châtelet-Gare du Nord split of RER B and RER D, with a separate tunnel for each line.
That alone would win RER B a ton of capacity, and RER D the possibility of adding not only plenty more trains, but of also taking over a Transilien H branch or two.

That said, the RER D split would make that also possible, although the connection between Gare de Lyon and Gare du Nord would be lost, which I'm not certain it's an ideal scenario, as that's the fastest link between TGV's.



SebParis said:


> I feel like this would


?



SebParis said:


> It would provide connection from the RER D north and south to the business center and more diagonal through running. As well as better connectivity between the RER lines.
> Especially it would relieve the RER B as it would have a tunnel on it's own!


The only downside would be for trips between Gare du Nord and Gare de Lyon, which would involve a change at Châtelet...

That said, ideally, I'd do the split of RER B and RER D, but if that proved to be really too difficult, then... why not redesigning the network to enhance its capacity even more, and using the RER D as a basis?

I've had another idea for RER F, but that would involve some bit of recycling, and it does sound not nearly as sexy as the RER D split into two different lines and plugging one into Montparnasse and the other into St-Lazare, or the RER B/RER D separation between Châtelet and Gare du Nord.

That would be splitting the RER C at Champ-de-Mars, and create a new tunnel from Champ-de-Mars to Montparnasse, to send all the VMI trains down to Versailles on the Transilien N lines.

But you'd have to completely rebuild Champ-de-Mars station, so it sounds not very okay to me, as that would involve yet another RER C long closure.


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## Minato ku

*Saint-Denis*

Among the station that definitely needed improvement. Saint-Denis was with 32 million passengers, the 9th busiest SNCF stations but it only has tiny underground corridors.

This project includes the construction of a third central and wide underground corridor with new station buildings on both sides.
The redevelopement of the surrounding and the improvement of the public spaces around the station.

The bad news, they will move the T1 station further west, increasing the transfer distance between T1 and T8.


















The new wide underground passage has been partially opened.

Gare de Saint-Denis by Minato ku, sur Flickr

A new station building will stand here (2)

Gare de Saint-Denis by Minato ku, sur Flickr










Only partially open, much of its space is still not accessible, new lifts are being built.

Gare de Saint-Denis by Minato ku, sur Flickr

It will also lead to a new entrance at the western side of the station. (5)









The non-RER suburban trains are more and more integrated as part of transportation network.
Before if you were not familiar with the network, you needed a good luck to find any wayfinding sign.

Gare de Saint-Denis by Minato ku, sur Flickr

Platforms have been heightened. 920mm standard for Paris suburban network.
RER D platform.

Gare de Saint-Denis by Minato ku, sur Flickr
View of the rest of station

Gare de Saint-Denis by Minato ku, sur Flickr

Transilien H platforms

Gare de Saint-Denis by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Gare de Saint-Denis by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Gare de Saint-Denis by Minato ku, sur Flickr


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## SebParis

437.001 said:


> Which leads to (again)... capacity on the Normandy main line.
> After watching this afternoon and for the umpteenth time a cab ride of a Transilien J between Mantes and St-Lazare via Poissy, I come to the following conclusions:
> 
> a) It _*MAY*_ be possible to _*PERHAPS*_ cram in a sixth track between Mantes-la-Jolie and Mantes-Station, but that would involve a massive upgrade of Mantes-Station, and probably also its relocation to the point where the Poissy and Conflans lines diverge.
> 
> b) Mantes-Station to Les Mureaux is easily four-trackable... but that would involve big upgrade works at Les Mureaux station, as the platform layout would have to change to leave extra room for the fast tracks.
> 
> c) Vernouillet-Verneuil to Poissy might perhaps be three- or even four-trackable between Vernouillet and Médan, and between Poissy and somewhere east of Villennes-sur-Seine.
> The Villennes level crossing has to go as soon as possible, if that is feasible.
> 
> d) There is room to add two extra tracks between Houilles and the Bezons junction, but that would have to involve a fourth track on the Bezons bridge. I'm not sure whether that can imply any gain in capacity or not. Reliability probably yes, but just a bit.
> 
> e) do you think there is room at Houilles station to leave a track-platform layout such as:
> 
> *platform-2 RER A tracks-platform-1 RER E track-2 mainline non-platform tracks-1 RER E track-platform*
> 
> ...?


The project LNPN, which creates a new high speed line from Paris to Normandy, will add two new tracks starting at La Garenne-Colombes.











This would create a separate fast track for all the trains that don't stop between Mantes and Paris. The currently planned track mostly follows the A14 and A13.

The section between Mézières and Mantes currently gets a third track thanks to the extension RER E. Gladly they already planned the space for the fourth track, which will be added with LNPN. I question though, why they couldn't have added it directly as the incremental cost of only track and catenary shouldn't be too high.


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## SebParis

437.001 said:


> I actually meant a new Châtelet station exclusive for RER D, somewhere near the current one.
> The current RER D platforms could perhaps be re-used for enhancing RER A and RER B capacity.


The problem is there is not much space left around Châtelet, so the cost would be immense. Especially as the RER D have longer trains of all the RER lines.



437.001 said:


> That said, the RER D split would make that also possible, although the connection between Gare de Lyon and Gare du Nord would be lost, which I'm not certain it's an ideal scenario, as that's the fastest link between TGV's.


With the platform level change of RER A and RER B at Châtelet it would still be an easy trip.



437.001 said:


> I've had another idea for RER F, but that would involve some bit of recycling, and it does sound not nearly as sexy as the RER D split into two different lines and plugging one into Montparnasse and the other into St-Lazare, or the RER B/RER D separation between Châtelet and Gare du Nord.
> 
> That would be splitting the RER C at Champ-de-Mars, and create a new tunnel from Champ-de-Mars to Montparnasse, to send all the VMI trains down to Versailles on the Transilien N lines.
> 
> But you'd have to completely rebuild Champ-de-Mars station, so it sounds not very okay to me, as that would involve yet another RER C long closure.


The VMI trains are not well used inside Paris as they are slow and don't go to destination people want to go. Both are actually a problem of all of the RER C. Speeding up the trains should not be too complicated, but the tracks will stay where they are...

Splitting up the RER C reminds me of this proposal: The RER Paris Needs


Fun fact, after the RER F was abandoned due to cost issues, M13 was instead extended to provide some connection to the suburbs for cheap.
Later, I find it is very sad that when the LGV Atlantique was constructed that the track between Paris and Massy was not quad-tracked. Either as an extension of M13 or provision of a future RER F.


----------



## stockholm79

SebParis said:


> The problem is there is not much space left around Châtelet, so the cost would be immense. Especially as the RER D have longer trains of all the RER lines.


You can always build downwards....
Châtelet is already a mega station, this would turn it into a giga station.


----------



## 437.001

SebParis said:


> The project LNPN, which creates a new high speed line from Paris to Normandy, will add two new tracks starting at La Garenne-Colombes.


I see.

However, that doesn't completely solve several issues, such as which trains would use the new line (TGV only? or also TER?), and the fact of its cost, because although it's true that between Mantes and Épône-Mézières there is room for a fourth track, and also between Épône-Mézières and Les Mureaux, and also between Houilles and La Garenne-Colombes (although that would mean modifying the Bezons bridge for a second time), it is no less true that the section between Vernouillet-Verneuil and Poissy really is a bottleneck.

So...  ...perhaps a two-track Villennes-avoiding tunnel between Médan and somewhere between Poissy and Villennes, coupled with a sixth track between Mantes-la-Jolie and Mantes-Station with relocation of Mantes-Station, would solve things at a cheaper cost than a whole new line between La Garenne-Colombes and Mantes (or Épône-Mézières), while increasing capacity on the RER E, and also even on the RER A and Transilien N?


----------



## 437.001

SebParis said:


> The problem is there is not much space left around Châtelet, so the cost would be immense. Especially as the RER D have longer trains of all the RER lines.


It wouldn't be cheap, that's true.
So perhaps running a new RER F line from Montparnasse to Invalides and then St-Lazare (under some of the current surface platforms, a bit like they'll do at Madrid-Atocha but for the RER instead of HSR), then resurfacing at Pont Cardinet or Clichy-Levallois to take over some Transilien J branches (presumably Ermont-Eaubonne and Pontoise/Boissy-l'Aillerie, for extra relief to RER A and RER C), coupled with a split tunnel between Châtelet and Gare du Nord (meaning a significant increase of RER B trains, while RER D could more than double its trains), would improve capacity enough.

With that, Montparnasse would lose some of its closer-range Transiliens (Sèvres-Rive Gauche, Plaisir-Grignon), retaining the farthest (Mantes via Versailles, Monfort, Rambouillet, Dreux) while St-Lazare would retain all of its Transilien L branches, plus the farthest Transilien J destinations (Mantes via Conflans, Gisors).



SebParis said:


> With the platform level change of RER A and RER B at Châtelet it would still be an easy trip.


But not a direct one, and a remarkably uneasy one during the peak hours.



SebParis said:


> The VMI trains are not well used inside Paris as they are slow and don't go to destination people want to go. Both are actually a problem of all of the RER C. Speeding up the trains should not be too complicated, but the tracks will stay where they are...


Regarding the VMI, I'd wait for the arrival of RER E at Porte Maillot, and then observe its results and whether the effect of RER E on the VMI is strong enough or not.
We might get a surprise there, perhaps...

The area between Gennevilliers and Porte de Clichy could perhaps undergo significant redevelopment in the coming years, and that is already happening, in places.
Metro line 14 at Pont Cardinet, Porte de Clichy and St-Ouen, coupled with the GPE at Les Grésillons, the T3b tram, and RER E arriving at Porte Maillot, all combined, might perhaps accelerate that trend...

On the other hand, it is also true that RER C between St-Michel and Issy (on the Versailles branch) and Porte Maillot (on the VMI) is rather slow, but that's also due to the high number of stops, something which also affects the RER B south of St-Michel. Blame it on the age of those lines, I suppose...
That said, if it were me, I'd shut Avenue Foch, Avenue du Président Kennedy, Pont de l'Alma, and probably Pont du Garigliano. Then travel times would improve, I think... at the expense of losing four connections (two to a tramway line, and two to a metro line), plus a non-connected station (Avenue du Président Kennedy).

So perhaps it's better to wait and see what is the effect of RER E on RER C, as this is a new connection within Paris, the last connections between two RER lines being Magenta, and Haussmann, which still haven't reached its full potential.



SebParis said:


> Splitting up the RER C reminds me of this proposal: The RER Paris Needs


The article is well-meant, but I can see some issues in it (Chaville tunnel? Connecting RER A to Puteaux and takeover of Transilien L branches? oops...).



SebParis said:


> Fun fact, after the RER F was abandoned due to cost issues, M13 was instead extended to provide some connection to the suburbs for cheap.


I know...



SebParis said:


> Later, I find it is very sad that when the LGV Atlantique was constructed that the track between Paris and Massy was not quad-tracked. Either as an extension of M13 or provision of a future RER F.


Or even a fast RER/Transilien link to Masy-Palaiseau and then Limours (where the St-Rémy-lès-Chevreuse branch used to finish), and on to Gallardon and Chartres.


----------



## evanzai

437.001 said:


> It wouldn't be cheap, that's true.
> So perhaps running a new RER F line from Montparnasse to Invalides and then St-Lazare (under some of the current surface platforms, a bit like they'll do at Madrid-Atocha but for the RER instead of HSR), then resurfacing at Pont Cardinet or Clichy-Levallois to take over some Transilien J branches (presumably Ermont-Eaubonne and Pontoise/Boissy-l'Aillerie, for extra relief to RER A and RER C), coupled with a split tunnel between Châtelet and Gare du Nord (meaning a significant increase of RER B trains, while RER D could more than double its trains), would improve capacity enough.
> 
> With that, Montparnasse would lose some of its closer-range Transiliens (Sèvres-Rive Gauche, Plaisir-Grignon), retaining the farthest (Mantes via Versailles, Monfort, Rambouillet, Dreux) while St-Lazare would retain all of its Transilien L branches, plus the farthest Transilien J destinations (Mantes via Conflans, Gisors).


But with that route you connect North-West to South-West, Invalides is a station already reachable from North-West (line 13) and south-west (line C) + it's not really a popular destination, and it's not that difficult from South-West to reach St-Lazare (lines L/U + A). 




437.001 said:


> Regarding the VMI, I'd wait for the arrival of RER E at Porte Maillot, and then observe its results and whether the effect of RER E on the VMI is strong enough or not.
> We might get a surprise there, perhaps...


And don't forget future line 15 from Gennevilliers to la Défense, with less stops 




437.001 said:


> On the other hand, it is also true that RER C between St-Michel and Issy (on the Versailles branch) and Porte Maillot (on the VMI) is rather slow, but that's also due to the high number of stops, something which also affects the RER B south of St-Michel. Blame it on the age of those lines, I suppose...
> That said, if it were me, I'd shut Avenue Foch, Avenue du Président Kennedy, Pont de l'Alma, and probably Pont du Garigliano. Then travel times would improve, I think... at the expense of losing four connections (two to a tramway line, and two to a metro line), plus a non-connected station (Avenue du Président Kennedy).


It's also a tough line, steep and curvy, with a 50-60 speed limit. And close also Musée d'Orsay  But all these closings would need something in return (tram stops ?)




437.001 said:


> The article is well-meant, but I can see some issues in it (Chaville tunnel? Connecting RER A to Puteaux and takeover of Transilien L branches? oops...).


Still, having line L-south overtaken by lines A or E would be great. And through very unlikely a viaduct over Chaville valley would be nice looking - maybe some kind of interchange with new stops on the current lines at the Chaville-Sèvres border (where the two line are the closest, around 300 meters) would be more realistic ?



Other option : a 5km high speed tunnel Montparnasse-Gare du Nord for TER (to Chartres, to Creil...) and TGV  

instead of the proposed 10km south interconnexion tunnel through Orly airport, just have all trains stop at Massy that is just 3 line 18 stations away
instead of the LNPN 10km tunnel through Houilles and... the forest of St-Germain, have Normandy trains go to Montparnasse too with a (probably ?) cheaper HSL Mantes-Versailles (which is also line 18 stations away from the airport)
I believe there is some space under Arrivée/Départ avenues at Montparnasse, and below Gare de l'Est tracks to have underground stations built with cut and cover
TER would provide capacity for city dwellers
TGV passengers would mostly alight at Gare du Nord...


----------



## 437.001

This could well end up becoming the chosen route for RER F... the day it gets built, that is.


----------



## 437.001

evanzai said:


> But with that route you connect North-West to South-West, *Invalides is a station already reachable from North-West (line 13)*


...line 13, which is overcrowded...



evanzai said:


> and south-west (line C) + it's not really a popular destination, and *it's not that difficult from South-West to reach St-Lazare (lines L/U + A)*.


Difficult it isn't. But fast it isn't, either.
The fastest line to/from inner Paris to Versailles is the Montparnasse line, without a doubt.

And, once the Mantes via Poissy Transilien J branch taken over by the RER E, the fastest remaining Transilien line in Saint-Lazare are the Argenteuil ones, of which logic asks us to expand RER F to Ermont-Eaubonne and to Pontoise/Boissy-l'Aillerie.

Why? Because in one go, you'd link Boissy-l'Aillerie (RER A at Cergy-Le Haut), Osny (RER A at Cergy-St-Cristophe), Pontoise (RER C at Pontoise + RER A at Cergy-Préfecture), Éragny-Neuville (RER A at Neuville-Université), Conflans-Ste-Honorine (RER A at Conflans-Fin-d'Oise), Argenteuil (one of the largest towns outside Paris), Pont Cardinet (and its surroundings, which are developing rather fast), St-Lazare station (tons of jobs in the area, plus many metro lines, plus RER A and RER E), Invalides (not Châtelet, but still very central station, plus RER C again), Montparnasse (TGV Atlantique, plus metro, Transilien N, and TER to Chartres, Le Mans, Alençon), all the southern suburbs towards Versailles (Meudon, Sèvres, Chaville, etc), on a faster line than the one via Issy, plus Saint-Quentin-en-Yvelines, plus Rambouillet.



evanzai said:


> And don't forget future* line 15 from Gennevilliers to la Défense*, with less stops


From Les Grésillons, not Gennevilliers.

Line 15 will be faster than RER C+RER E, certainly... but first it must open, and that will happen in phases (starting from the south, Noisy-Champs to Pont de Sèvres), so meanwhile, the fastest way will be by combining RER C and RER E with a change at Neuilly-Porte Maillot.

Not to say that people in Gennevilliers do not go only to La Défense, even if lots of jobs are there.
The interchange at Neuilly-Porte Maillot will open a larger number of destinations with a faster travel time for plenty of trips. Say, Gennevilliers to Val de Fontenay with just one interchange at Porte Maillot, for instance.



evanzai said:


> It's also a tough line, steep and curvy, with a 50-60 speed limit.


Which isn't worse than any metro line. except perhaps line 14.
And it isn't much slower than the southern half of the RER B, either.



evanzai said:


> And close also Musée d'Orsay


Ideally, I'd close Avenue Henri-Martin and Musée d'Orsay, but these happen to have more than two platforms, so it might not be such a good idea, particularly not when we do not know the effect of the Porte Maillot connection.



evanzai said:


> But all these closings would need something in return (tram stops ?)


I actually don't think they will close at all.
If anything, first they have to see the effects of the Porte Maillot connection.



evanzai said:


> Still, having line L-south overtaken by lines A or E would be great.


Transilien L is as good as untouchable. It is very difficult to increase capacity on that line, and it would be extremely expensive (and just as much disruptive) to connect it to RER A or RER E.



evanzai said:


> And through very unlikely a viaduct over Chaville valley would be nice looking - maybe some kind of interchange with new stops on the current lines at the Chaville-Sèvres border (where the two line are the closest, around 300 meters) would be more realistic ?


No. And not really necessary when you have the tram connection at Viroflay, and also Transilien U.



evanzai said:


> Other option : a 5km high speed tunnel Montparnasse-Gare du Nord for TER (to Chartres, to Creil...) and TGV


TER? That's utterly unnecessary.
As for TGV, good luck with that.



evanzai said:


> - of the proposed 10km south interconnexion tunnel through Orly airport, just have all trains stop at Massy that is just 3 line 18 stations away


Remember that in Île-de-France, many more people live outside Paris than inside Paris.



evanzai said:


> -instead of the LNPN 10km tunnel through Houilles and... the forest of St-Germain, have Normandy trains go to Montparnasse too with a (probably ?) cheaper HSL Mantes-Versailles (which is also line 18 stations away from the airport)


I actually had thought about this, too.
Could be interesting to study it, although I'm not certain about the outcome.



evanzai said:


> -I believe there is some space under Arrivée/Départ avenues at Montparnasse, and below Gare de l'Est tracks to have underground stations built with cut and cover


It depends on what could happen. If the tunnel is meant to reach St-Lazare via Invalides, it would depend on what's underneath each street.


----------



## BillyF

To illustrate the discussion, here is the video of a suburban train at Pont Cardinet, near Paris Saint-Lazare station.


----------



## SebParis

437.001 said:


> I see.
> 
> However, that doesn't completely solve several issues, such as which trains would use the new line (TGV only? or also TER?), and the fact of its cost, because although it's true that between Mantes and Épône-Mézières there is room for a fourth track, and also between Épône-Mézières and Les Mureaux, and also between Houilles and La Garenne-Colombes (although that would mean modifying the Bezons bridge for a second time), it is no less true that the section between Vernouillet-Verneuil and Poissy really is a bottleneck.
> 
> So...  ...perhaps a two-track Villennes-avoiding tunnel between Médan and somewhere between Poissy and Villennes, coupled with a sixth track between Mantes-la-Jolie and Mantes-Station with relocation of Mantes-Station, would solve things at a cheaper cost than a whole new line between La Garenne-Colombes and Mantes (or Épône-Mézières), while increasing capacity on the RER E, and also even on the RER A and Transilien N?


TGV, IC and TER, all trains that run non-stop from Mantes to Paris. Putting a fifth and sixth track between Houilles and Maisons-Laffitte is either very expensive or impossible. Also you would save less time while increase noise pollution, where lots of people live. So to me starting a La Garenne-Colombes with a direct route makes more sense.
We need an all separate track, so we can improve service for the RER E beyond Nanterre. Possible service offerings:












437.001 said:


> It wouldn't be cheap, that's true.
> So perhaps running a new RER F line from Montparnasse to Invalides and then St-Lazare (under some of the current surface platforms, a bit like they'll do at Madrid-Atocha but for the RER instead of HSR), then resurfacing at Pont Cardinet or Clichy-Levallois to take over some Transilien J branches (presumably Ermont-Eaubonne and Pontoise/Boissy-l'Aillerie, for extra relief to RER A and RER C), coupled with a split tunnel between Châtelet and Gare du Nord (meaning a significant increase of RER B trains, while RER D could more than double its trains), would improve capacity enough.
> 
> With that, Montparnasse would lose some of its closer-range Transiliens (Sèvres-Rive Gauche, Plaisir-Grignon), retaining the farthest (Mantes via Versailles, Monfort, Rambouillet, Dreux) while St-Lazare would retain all of its Transilien L branches, plus the farthest Transilien J destinations (Mantes via Conflans, Gisors).


The problem with a RER F like this, it actually doesn't solve the capacity problem of the M4 (as well as speed). So when we spend so much money to build a new RER trunk and remove the Chatlet-Gare du Nord problem, it should also help the M4.

Between the two options:
1)
RER D: Chatelet - Gare du Nord
RER F: Montparnasse - Saint Lazare
2)
RER D: Chatelet - Saint Lazare
RER F: Montparnasse - Gare du Nord

I would choose the second one.



437.001 said:


> But not a direct one, and a remarkably uneasy one during the peak hours.


With the extension of the RER E and the RER D South going to Saint-Lazare it should be easier.



437.001 said:


> The area between Gennevilliers and Porte de Clichy could perhaps undergo significant redevelopment in the coming years, and that is already happening, in places.
> Metro line 14 at Pont Cardinet, Porte de Clichy and St-Ouen, coupled with the GPE at Les Grésillons, the T3b tram, and RER E arriving at Porte Maillot, all combined, might perhaps accelerate that trend...


There is lots of development already happening there, so the frequency should be improved, but I think most people will change to M14 and M15. There are just basically no jobs around RER C stations, Porte Maillot being a bit of an exception. It just takes a long detour around the city center... hence the name of the line 

Closing some stations might be a good idea, while extending the T3b further.



evanzai said:


> It's also a tough line, steep and curvy, with a 50-60 speed limit. And close also Musée d'Orsay  But all these closings would need something in return (tram stops ?)


I would love to see travel time reduction with a constant speed limit of 80, better performing rolling stock and normal stop times. Anyone can calculate that?
M14 will run into capacity problems soon and part of it is that the whole world changes from RER C to M14 at BNF. Faster travel times in the center would help there.



437.001 said:


> The article is well-meant, but I can see some issues in it (Chaville tunnel? Connecting RER A to Puteaux and takeover of Transilien L branches? oops...).


I like the idea of RER A to L connection as it would provide direct city access to them, but Chaville tunnel is just crazy.



437.001 said:


> Or even a fast RER/Transilien link to Masy-Palaiseau and then Limours (where the St-Rémy-lès-Chevreuse branch used to finish), and on to Gallardon and Chartres.


Sadly there is already now not enough space on the track during peak periods, but then the TGV should also be less peaky...


----------



## 437.001

SebParis said:


> TGV, IC and TER, all trains that run non-stop from Mantes to Paris.


Yes, although TGV don't run via Poissy, but via Massy-Versailles-Plaisir, don't they?



SebParis said:


> Putting a fifth and sixth track between Houilles and Maisons-Laffitte is either very expensive or impossible.


I know.
I was actually talking about extending a bit the RER E tracks between the Bezons bridge and Houilles station, not more.
It's not a lot, but perhaps that would come in handy in certain situations, and I think there is room for that.



SebParis said:


> Also you would save less time while increase noise pollution, where lots of people live. So to me starting a La Garenne-Colombes with a direct route makes more sense.


Yes.



SebParis said:


> We need an all separate track, so we can improve service for the RER E beyond Nanterre. Possible service offerings:
> 
> View attachment 2707636



Yes, that looks interesting.
However, I have a doubt. Does the complete takeover of the RER A Poissy branch mean that RER E would be able to serve Achères-Grand Cormier, Maisons-Laffitte and Sartrouville?
If yes, then that's great news, but is it physically possible now to run Transilien J trains from Houilles to the slow lines at Achères-Grand Cormier without interfering with the RER A Cergy branch?
Also, having no Poissy RER E terminators and having four Les Mureaux isn't a bit of an overload?



SebParis said:


> The problem with a RER F like this, it actually doesn't solve the capacity problem of the M4 (as well as speed).


Not the M4, but would solve the M13, which is no small thing either.



SebParis said:


> So when we spend so much money to build a new RER trunk and remove the Chatelet-Gare du Nord problem, it should also help the M4.


I'm not certain about that being the main focus of the Châtelet/Gare du Nord split.
The main goal of the split should be the improvement on reliability of both RER B and RER D, and a significant increase of the number of trains running between those two stations on each line.
At the peak I think now it's 20 RER B and 12 RER D, so that could be increased to 28 RER B and 28 RER D.
For RER B it is already a significant improvement, and a much welcome increase of capacity.
For RER D that is an entirely different story, as the capacity increase would be so vast that it could perhaps support a branch or even two, probably taken over from Transilien H (say Sarcelles-St Brice, Pontoise via Enghien, or something similar), or even the reopening of the Garibaldi line to Les Grésillons to terminate trains at Gennevilliers or Pontoise via St-Gratien and making RER C trains terminate at Gennevilliers (anyway, the effects of RER E and GPE will be felt first, so they'd probably see how all that turns out and react accordingly).

In that case, then you'd probably need RER F (St Lazare-Austerlitz) and RER G (Gare du Nord-Montparnasse).



SebParis said:


> Between the two options:
> 1)
> RER D: Chatelet - Gare du Nord
> RER F: Montparnasse - Saint Lazare





SebParis said:


> 2)
> RER D: Chatelet - Saint Lazare
> RER F: Montparnasse - Gare du Nord





SebParis said:


> I would choose the second one.




I think I would choose:

*RER D*

a) Corbeil-Evry Courcouronnes-Juvisy-Villeneuve St Georges-Gare de Lyon-Châtelet-Gare du Nord-St Denis-Creil
b) Melun-Combs la Ville-Villeneuve St Georges-Gare de Lyon-Châtelet-Gare du Nord-Garibaldi (reconstructed and reopened)-Les Grésillons-Gennevilliers
I'm not sure about the Malesherbes, Melun via Corbeil and Evry-Centre branches, but that could be worked out, the capacity of Châtelet-Gare de Lyon would increase so much that it would then withstand all those services, and in fact the main RER D bottleneck (although a much smaller one) would then become Corbeil station.

*RER F*
a) Dourdan la Forêt-Dourdan-Brétigny-Juvisy-Choisy-Austerlitz (new platforms)-Luxembourg (new platforms)-Invalides (new platforms)-St Lazare (new platforms)-Asnières-Argenteuil-Ermont Eaubonne
b) Massy Palaiseau-Choisy-Austerlitz (new platforms)-Luxembourg (new platforms)-Invalides (new platforms)-St Lazare (new platforms)-Asnières-Argenteuil-Conflans Ste Honorine-Pontoise-Boissy l'Aillerie

*RER G*
a) Pontoise-Ermont Eaubonne-Enghien-Épinay Villetaneuse-Gare du Nord (new platforms)-Invalides (new platforms)-Montparnasse (new platforms)-Clamart-Sèvres RG-Viroflay RG-Versailles Chantiers-St Cyr-Plaisir Grignon
b) Persan Beaumont-Valmondois-Ermont Eaubonne-Enghien-Gare du Nord (new platforms)-Invalides (new platforms)-Montparnasse (new platforms)-Clamart-Sèvres RG-Viroflay RG-Versailles Chantiers-St Quentin en Yvelines-La Verrière-Rambouillet

Leaving *RER C* like this:

a) St Martin d'Étampes-Étampes-Brétigny-Juvisy-Austerlitz-St Michel-Invalides-Champ de Mars-Issy-Viroflay RG-Porchefontaine-Versailles RG Château
b) Brétigny-Juvisy-Austerlitz-St Michel-Invalides-Champ de Mars-Neuilly Porte Maillot-Les Grésillons-Gennevilliers-Ermont Eaubonne-Pontoise



SebParis said:


> With the extension of the RER E and the RER D South going to Saint-Lazare it should be easier.


Yeah, but it would be a lost direct connection that nowadays does exist, which means that many people use it, not least for interchanges between TGV's. Say, if I'm going from Brussels to Barcelona (because I don't like flying, or for any other reason), and I don't have a direct TGV between those two cities (which there isn't), the main and fastest option now is RER D.
Or if I live in Goussainville but work at Melun.

This is why I think splitting the RER D could be a not so good idea, it would have a massive impact on many people which now use it for their everyday lives.
It could have its benefits, of course.
But I think that, overall, the benefits aren't more than the disruption it would cause.



SebParis said:


> There is lots of development already happening there, so the frequency should be improved, but I think most people will change to M14 and M15.


We will see what happens.
The Porte Maillot interchange will be new, it does not exist now, so we can't discard surprise increases and new flows becoming popular before M15 opens.



SebParis said:


> There are just basically no jobs around RER C stations, Porte Maillot being a bit of an exception.


That's the case now. But things do change.
See the area around Porte de Clichy, St-Ouen, and Les Grésillons on Google Maps.
Give a few extra years, and that could change even more, even before M15 opens.



SebParis said:


> It just takes a long detour around the city center... hence the name of the line


The name also comes from its physical shape (ligne-escargot, ligne-pieuvre). 



SebParis said:


> Closing some stations might be a good idea, while extending the T3b further.


If they closed Avenue Foch and extended T3b to Avenue Henri-Martin that would be a bit better, yes.



SebParis said:


> I would love to see travel time reduction with a constant speed limit of 80, better performing rolling stock and normal stop times. Anyone can calculate that?
> M14 will run into capacity problems soon and part of it is that the whole world changes from RER C to M14 at BNF. Faster travel times in the center would help there.


See my RER F and RER G comments above.



SebParis said:


> I like the idea of RER A to L connection as it would provide direct city access to them


I like that too, the problem is the capacity of the line, which is really very hard to increase dur to the limited number of tracks and passing loops between La Défense and Chaville-RD. And the cost of it all, because how on earth do you link La Défense-RER A to Puteaux? That looks between unfeasible and ultra-expensive.


----------



## 437.001

*RER E*

Not a very interesting video, even less for those who don't understand French, but at least you get to see a few images of the works of the third track *between Épône-Mézières and Mantes-Station*.


----------



## Minato ku

Port Royal station on the RER B is closed from February 28 until August 28.
Refurbishment of platforms for a greater accessibility and construction of a new exit.


Port Royal, RER B by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Port Royal, RER B by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Port Royal, RER B by Minato ku, sur Flickr


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## Hourdel

*La Défense
























































*
Other pictures here : Log into Facebook


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## villadebellis

*RER A...AUBER STATION...
















*


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## Hourdel

*Saint-Michel Notre-Dame*
Natural light can now enter the station (but only in the eastern part for now) :


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## 437.001

*RER E*

Some before/after images of the works of the new flyover at *Bezons*.
This flyover is being built to avoid crossovers between the Normandy main line trains, and the RER E, which will diverge towards Nanterre, La Défense and inner Paris right here.

*Les travaux du Bow-string à Bezons avant après - EOLE - RER E (rer-eole.fr) *


----------



## 437.001

*Rolling stock*

An RER NG in tests in Savoie.
These trains will be for RER D and RER E.
Click to watch: *Les essais du RER NG en Savoie - YouTube*


----------



## Minato ku

I was looking some facts about the RER E stations, I 've discovered that Magenta and Haussmann Saint-Lazare feature a whopping number of 94 escalators (and 2 travelators).
42 at Magenta and 52 at Haussmann Saint-Lazare.
_Just to put in perspective the nine new stations of the Crossrail Elizabeth line only have 81._

It's true that for the massive underground stations of the RER E were built for massive capacity.
Stations with a separation of passenger flows by direction.

Here in Magenta, all those five escalators are going in the same directions and are followed by another set of five in the connecting corridor from the RER E to the RER B/D hall.

Magenta, RER E by Minato ku, sur Flickr
_It's an old picture because they are currently replacing all of them._

In the connecting corridor from the RER E to the metro, they were more conservative, they only built a set of three (all going in the same way obviously).

Magenta, RER E by Minato ku, sur Flickr

The three new stations on extension of the RER E will have 75 escalators, the majority of those will be at La Défense station.


----------



## Clery

Is the opening of the RER E to La Défense still planned for the end of 2022?

Looking at the pictures it seems that a lot of works are still needed...


----------



## Hourdel

Clery said:


> Is the opening of the RER E to La Défense still planned for the end of 2022?
> 
> Looking at the pictures it seems that a lot of works are still needed...


No, due to the first lockdown the opening has been officially postponed to 2023. 


https://www.rer-eole.fr/actualite/covid-19-impacts-de-la-pandemie-securite-sanitaire-et-recalage-du-programme-des-travaux/


But in this recent article, it is said that the opening will take place in early 2024, while the first tests will start in spring 2023 :








Eole : un nouveau pas franchi vers la mise en service du prolongement du RER E à l’ouest


La nouvelle portion entre Saint-Lazare et Nanterre vient d’être terminée. Il ne reste plus qu’à démonter le tunnelier pour démolir les derni




www.leparisien.fr


----------



## villadebellis

*RER E - MAGENTA STATION
























*


----------



## Hourdel

*La Défense



































*








mohamed kernif on LinkedIn: chantier EOLE RER E Gare CNIT bientôt la fin du chantier


chantier EOLE RER E Gare CNIT bientôt la fin du chantier




www.linkedin.com


----------



## BillyF

Intersections of MI09 and MI2N trains in the renovated Auber station, on line A of the Paris RER. The renovation of the station is now complete, with new lighting and new screens for dynamic passenger information.
The video was taken during rush hour, which explains the short interval between each train.


----------



## Hourdel

This renovation seems quite good, even though it took a long, long time. Tiles on the floor, bright walls, good signage, clear and modern screens. But I am a bit disappointed that the ceiling is still black. I find it oppressive. I thought that a red false ceiling should be put at least above the platforms.


----------



## villadebellis

*La Défense (Grande Arche) - RER A








*


----------



## Hourdel

*Porte Maillot*
The excavation of the lower level and the construction of the concrete slab will be completed this summer. The next step will be the construction of the platforms. 






































https://twitter.com/ArmelleLagrange


----------



## metro-world

SebParis said:


> Citymapper says it takes 4 minutes for the change from RER E to RER B/D and the corridors are spacious. You can look up the diagrams of in this document page 86 to page 89 https://www.nouvelle-liaison-gare-n...ques_principales_dcop/DOCP-LGNE-STIF-2015.pdf
> 
> Currently there are 120k changes between Gare du Nord and Magenta a day.


I know about this project, but as I remember, it was cancelled with the station building first - and I am not sure if yet build.
However I am next week in Paris and will go around and look how the situation is now.


----------



## metro-world

437.001 said:


> A few thoughts...
> 
> *RER E*
> 
> For what I read, the RER E will be the most interconnected commuter rail line in Paris.
> 
> Even though this line won't be as straight as the RER A between Les Ivrys - Noisy-le-Grand in the east, and Poissy in the west, it will still offer more interchanges, while covering significant areas already covered by the RER A, and a couple places in central Paris that the RER A does not (while offering new connections to RER/Transilien lines precisely in those places).
> Isn't there a risk of instant severe overcrowding? What do you think?
> 
> =================================================================
> 
> *RER D, future RER F (& the problem of Châtelet-Gare du Nord)*
> 
> I've had a thought about the problem of the Châtelet-Gare du Nord tunnel.
> It would be very expensive to solve, but... what... if...
> 😶
> ...RER D split?:
> 
> a) New tunnel between somewhere east of Châtelet towards Saint-Lazare, to connect there with some Transilien line, probably Transilien J (I guess the Ermont - Eaubonne and the Pontoise/Boissy-L'Aillerie branches are the ones which look best). East of Châtelet as usual (Melun, Corbeil, etc). The problem would be where else would you cram in even more underground platforms in the Saint-Lazare area.
> 
> b) New tunnel between somewhere north of Gare du Nord and Montparnasse, with intermediate station at Auber (if they can cram it in somewhere in the area, which won't be easy) and Musée d'Orsay (for RER C). At Montparnasse it should take over the Transilien N services to Sèvres-Rive Gauche, Plaisir-Grignon and probably Rambouillet. North of Gare du Nord as usual (Goussainville, Orry, Creil, etc), or perhaps with the addition of a Transilien H branch (Pontoise?), and/or the reopening for passengers of the line between Gare du Nord and Les Grésillons via Garibaldi (and then services to... Gennevilliers?).
> 
> The usual narrative about a sixth RER line (RER F) would be a Saint-Lazare to Montparnasse connection, but even though it would solve many things, the problem would also be the connection of two of the not most used Transiliens.
> Hence my idea of an RER D split with new tunnels (while Transilien L is almost untouchable as it already is at capacity and there's also the issue of its coexistence with Transilien U).
> 
> Any thoughts? (I mean, aside of it being really very expensive)


Well I don't see a overcrowding of line E, because the 2 main stations Hausmann and Magenta are of 4 tracks and separate platforms for on and off-traffic. By this it will not get the problems as Line a with passenger flow time at train stopp. On the other side it have a other operationg system - not over their full length - as booth main sections from west and east are overlapping in central only.

I don't see a lind F, because some of teh outer section from west will integrate in line E and the remaining Transilien lines are not planned to convert to RER-Style (for the near future)

for the common used section of line B/D Chatelet - Gare du Nord there will no other chance to build a second tunnel as earlier from Gare de Lyon to Chatelet to separate teh 2 lines.I see this coming during the next 10 years.


----------



## 437.001

metro-world said:


> Well I don't see a overcrowding of line E, because the 2 main stations Hausmann and Magenta are of 4 tracks and separate platforms for on and off-traffic. By this it will not get the problems as Line a with passenger flow time at train stopp. On the other side it have a other operationg system - not over their full length - as booth main sections from west and east are overlapping in central only.


I meant overcrowding on board the trains, not congestion of the line.
That said, La Défense will have a single (but large) island platform, and Neuilly-Porte Maillot will have two tracks and two platforms only, and Rosa Parks has a single island platform too, but hopefully between Magenta, Haussmann-St Lazare and Nanterre-La Folie they will manage to have more fluidity than on the RER A, where between the Fontenay-sous-Bois junction and La Défense there are only two tracks and two platforms per station.



metro-world said:


> I don't see a lind F, because some of teh outer section from west will integrate in line E and the remaining Transilien lines are not planned to convert to RER-Style (for the near future)


Well, I actually meant in the long to very long term...
Between the RER E extension, the new tramway lines, the various metro extensions, and the Grand Paris Express plan, Paris's needs will be reasonably well covered for a long time, I believe.

In anything, the next step after that should be this:



metro-world said:


> for the common used section of line B/D Chatelet - Gare du Nord there will no other chance to build a second tunnel as earlier from *Gare de Lyon* to Chatelet to separate teh 2 lines.I see this coming during the next 10 years.


Did you mean Gare de Lyon or Gare du Nord?


----------



## 437.001

*RER B
Sevran - Beaudottes*

Open since 1976.
Located in the town of Sevran (departement of Seine-Saint Denis - nº93).
Part of the branch from Aulnay-sous-Bois to Roissy-Aéroport Charles de Gaulle-2 TGV.
The station is in a difficult quarter of the Paris suburbs.





Video by *ACC84 Metro y Trenes*


----------



## Hourdel

In this video, white palisades with doors can be seen along the walls, in the middle of each platform.









Behind these palisades, openings are being made in the walls. They will connect the platforms to a corridor being built under the tracks and this corridor will link the RER B station with the Métro Ligne 16 station.


----------



## Minato ku

I don't understand they don't try to clearly brightening Sevran-Beaudotte station, it's a pretty rough area and having a dark station does not improve the feel of insecurity.
It's a shame especially since the station was renovated only a few years ago. It improved the look but it's still too dark.


----------



## Hourdel

Track works. Between Nanterre and Porte Maillot, 99% of the tracks are laid.





































Eiffage Rail on LinkedIn: #EOLE #EiffageRail #ProjetEole


Projet #EOLE – 📢 Les travaux sont en cours sur le tronçon central du prolongement du RER E vers l’ouest entre les gares de La Défense et Porte Maillot...




www.linkedin.com


----------



## 437.001

*RER B
Villepinte
Parc du Sausset*

Open since 1976.
Located in the town of Villepìnte (departement of Seine-Saint Denis - nº93).
Part of the branch from Aulnay-sous-Bois to Roissy-Aéroport Charles de Gaulle-2 TGV.
The station is in the Parc du Sausset, a park located in the boundary between the towns of Villepinte and Aulnay-sous-Bois.





Video by *ACC84 Metro y Trenes*


----------



## Hourdel

*Porte Maillot*
*














*
_Main access
















Steel reinforcement for the concrete invert construction









Cover slab above the Eastern hall









Passageway to the Métro station_​_


https://www.rer-eole.fr/actualite/les-travaux-a-porte-maillot-en-image/


_


----------



## Minato ku

*Créteil Pompadour*

When it opened in December 2013, the station was just a single island platform but this proved to be not enough and the station is prone to overcrowding.
So a second island platform is under construction for the southbound trains.

Créteil Pompadour, RER D by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Créteil Pompadour, RER D by Minato ku, sur Flickr


Créteil Pompadour, RER D by Minato ku, sur Flickr


----------



## 437.001

Minato ku said:


> *Créteil Pompadour*
> When it opened in December 2013, the station was just a single island platform but this proved to be not enough and the station is prone to overcrowding.
> So a second island platform is under construction for the southbound trains.


What a surprise. 😶 
I wasn't aware of this.


----------



## TER200

The goal is mainly to make the RER able to use the three tracks again, a possibility used to ease traffic that was lost when this new station was built on 2 tracks only.


----------



## 437.001

*RER B
Parc des Expositions*

Open since 1976.
Located in the town of Villepìnte (departement of Seine-Saint Denis - nº93).
Part of the branch from Aulnay-sous-Bois to Roissy-Aéroport Charles de Gaulle-2 TGV.
The station is in the Parc des Expositions, the main exhibition centre in the greater Paris area.
Oddly, in the Wikipedia page, I only find pictures of the station that seem to have two platforms and two tracks, but now the station seems to have two platforms and three tracks. Does anybody know when was this third track added, or is it simply that the Wikipedia pictures don't show very well the actual layout of platforms/tracks of the station?





Video by *ACC84 Metro y Trenes*


----------



## TER200

Th third track was added recently, as part of the "RER B+ Nord" project.
For a detailed track map : Carte détaillée du RER d'Ile-de-France


----------



## alserrod

Wow, what a map!!!!


----------



## 437.001

alserrod said:


> Wow, what a map!!!!


What's so special about it?


----------



## alexandru.mircea

^ I don't think I've ever seen a map of regional rail that wasn't stylized


----------



## stockholm79

This is a track map, it is supposed to be somewhat accurate


----------



## ZeusUpsistos

*Nanterre-La Folie







*


































I find the tracks joining and curving into the tunnel extremely satisfying for some reason.
























Arthur Weidmann


----------



## 437.001

ZeusUpsistos said:


> *Nanterre-La Folie*


One question.
When it opens, the tracks to Courbevoie and Puteaux will be reinstated, or will that connection be lost?


----------



## 437.001

In the French forum I read that *RER B* and *RER C* will be closed for more than one month due to the replacement of a rail bridge over both a road and the LGV Atlantique, between Massy-Palaiseau and Massy-Verrières stations.

Will both lines be cut at the same time, or will it be first one, and then the other?

The substitution plan for RER C seems to be easy (rerouting via Savigny-sur-Orge of some trains, and remainder of services cut to Massy-Verrières, Chemin d'Antony, or Pont de Rungis).
But, for RER B... what will they do? Substitution bus between Massy-Palaiseau and Massy-Verrières?


----------



## Hourdel

437.001 said:


> In the French forum I read that *RER B* and *RER C* will be closed for more than one month due to the replacement of a rail bridge over both a road and the LGV Atlantique, between Massy-Palaiseau and Massy-Verrières stations.
> 
> Will both lines be cut at the same time, or will it be first one, and then the other?
> 
> The substitution plan for RER C seems to be easy (rerouting via Savigny-sur-Orge of some trains, and remainder of services cut to Massy-Verrières, Chemin d'Antony, or Pont de Rungis).
> But, for RER B... what will they do? Substitution bus between Massy-Palaiseau and Massy-Verrières?


RER B will be interrupted between Les Baconnets and Massy-Palaiseau from 16 July to 18 August and there will be a substitution bus between these two stations. You can check the dates and locations of the summer works (and works in general) on the RER B blog.
Here is a video explaining how the old bridges will be replaced :


----------



## sergiogiorgini

Why was Magenta (RER E) outfitted with two platforms and four tracks? For Haussmann-St Lazare I could see how it would greatly ease operations during the many years this line has terminated here, but for Magenta it just seems to be a matter of decadence. For a deep-level station on a single line, it's certainly exceptional.


----------



## Stuu

sergiogiorgini said:


> Why was Magenta (RER E) outfitted with two platforms and four tracks? For Haussmann-St Lazare I could see how it would greatly ease operations during the many years this line has terminated here, but for Magenta it just seems to be a matter of decadence. For a deep-level station on a single line, it's certainly exceptional.


It enables there to be much longer dwell times for each train, as each platform can be occupied for twice as long as if there were only a single platform


----------



## sergiogiorgini

Well yes, the more the better, but there's a reason you don't see this with a lot of deep-level stations: it's hugely expensive and complicated. Crossrail or RER A don't have it, and the RER E extension stations won't either. Now if the station was the place where a number of branches came together, or if it were used as a terminus for a number of lines, I could see the justification. But Magenta is just a stop on a line that has two branches on either side.

I suppose it may just have been a matter of "let's not repeat the mistakes we made with the RER A", and a decision that was made during a less stingy era.


----------



## Aim9X

Well Magenta will potentially be the terminus for the train coming from the west (Mantes-la-Jolie) so the four tracks make sense.


----------



## Hourdel

Magenta can serve as a terminus in case of disturbed situation. There are also some shuttles between Magenta and Haussmann Saint-Lazare so Magenta serves as a regular terminus for these trains.


----------



## 437.001

Aim9X said:


> Well Magenta will potentially be the terminus for the train coming from the west (Mantes-la-Jolie) so the four tracks make sense.


That will happen at Rosa Parks, it seems.
But anyway, having Magenta as a back-up is a good thing.



sergiogiorgini said:


> Well yes, the more the better, but there's a reason you don't see this with a lot of deep-level stations: it's hugely expensive and complicated. Crossrail or RER A don't have it, and the RER E extension stations won't either.


I wouldn't complain about having extra capacity, quite the opposite.

In the case of Crossrail/Elizabeth Line, the decision to not build any station with more than two platforms may end up being more expensive over time, as the line is only just starting to increase the number of passengers, as it opened only weeks ago, but the big boom of the connection of the Shenfield, Reading and Heathrow branches hasn't happened yet, so what will happen on a bad day when the line goes at full pelt and overcrowded is still a big question mark.
But what's clear is that the line will be more strained than RER E because of the lack of extra platforms (and a longer tunnel - Paddington to Abbey Wood/Plumstead or Stratford/Pudding Mill Lane is much longer than Magenta/Rosa Parks to Nanterre-La Folie).

As for RER A, it was the first line, and when it goes broke it's hell on earth.
So, what's wrong about not wanting to repeat its (and RER B's) weaknesses on RER E (or for that matter, on RER C and RER D, which also have extra platforms here and there)?



sergiogiorgini said:


> Now if the station was the place where a number of branches came together, or if it were used as a terminus for a number of lines, I could see the justification. But Magenta is just a stop on a line that has two branches on either side.


No one knows what the future will bring.


----------



## Stuu

sergiogiorgini said:


> Well yes, the more the better, but there's a reason you don't see this with a lot of deep-level stations: it's hugely expensive and complicated. Crossrail or RER A don't have it, and the RER E extension stations won't either. Now if the station was the place where a number of branches came together, or if it were used as a terminus for a number of lines, I could see the justification. But Magenta is just a stop on a line that has two branches on either side.
> 
> I suppose it may just have been a matter of "let's not repeat the mistakes we made with the RER A", and a decision that was made during a less stingy era.


Partly that, but also I would have thought it is because of how RER E was built. With just two central stations, they would have known there would be a great deal of interchanging at Magenta so there would have been some justification for it.


----------



## 437.001

Stuu said:


> Partly that, but also I would have thought it is because of how RER E was built. With just two central stations, *they would have known there would be a great deal of interchanging at Magenta so there would have been some justification for it*.


Or, on RER D, Gare de Lyon, which has four platforms, while RER A has only two.
Interestingly, though, the RER D and RER A platforms were built at the same time, but with different purpose.
I'm not certain that when RER A opened, RER D was even a thought.

But RER D also has more than two platforms at Châtelet...


----------



## Stuu

437.001 said:


> Or, on RER D, Gare de Lyon, which has four platforms, while RER A has only two.
> Interestingly, though, the RER D and RER A platforms were built at the same time, but with different purpose.
> I'm not certain that when RER A opened, RER D was even a thought.
> 
> But RER D also has more than two platforms at Châtelet...


It was all planned at the same time - I'm fairly certain Chatelet was built in one go, although maybe the central platforms weren't finished until later. The extra platforms at Gare de Lyon were because new platforms were needed to create space for the TGV, they were used as the suburban terminus for a number of years before the tunnel to Chatelet was built


----------



## sergiogiorgini

But see this is a good example of why I was wondering about this; RER D got four tracks at Gare de Lyon because it was built as a terminus station for suburban trains. Makes sense. In exactly the same space but one floor below, RER A got only two tracks along a very wide island platform. Why? Because it was never meant to be a terminus station for RER A, because normally speaking, this doesn't make sense in this location for such a line. The whole idea of a "metro" line is that trains glide through the central trunk as quickly and consistently as possible.

But then SNCF does this with RER C, too, where many trains terminate at Invalides, Austerlitz and Bibliothèque F.M. It may just be part of the way they operate.



437.001 said:


> I wouldn't complain about having extra capacity, quite the opposite.


I'm not complaining, I agree with you, I'm merely interested in how this decision was made. Governments generally don't spend billions unless there is a very good reason to.



Stuu said:


> Partly that, but also I would have thought it is because of how RER E was built. With just two central stations, they would have known there would be a great deal of interchanging at Magenta so there would have been some justification for it.


That makes sense.


----------



## ZeusUpsistos

437.001 said:


> One question.
> When it opens, the tracks to Courbevoie and Puteaux will be reinstated, or will that connection be lost?


The connection will be retained. It's actually still in use for the heating plant nearby (Enertherm).


----------



## Hourdel

Hourdel said:


> RER B will be interrupted between Les Baconnets and Massy-Palaiseau from 16 July to 18 August and there will be a substitution bus between these two stations. You can check the dates and locations of the summer works (and works in general) on the RER B blog.
> Here is a video explaining how the old bridges will be replaced :


Further north, other big and long works begin this summer. The aim is to create a new track linking the high speed line (HSL) Atlantique to the line between Massy and Les Saules (Massy Valenton line MVL). This line is used by TGVs bypassing Paris from the south, by freight trains and by RER C trains running between Massy and Paris. But as there is only one track linking the HSL Atlantique with the MVL, there are big traffic conflicts (left yellow circle on the picture below), limiting the capacity of the MVL (only two RER C trains per hour) and causing delays.








But the RER B line is very close to the RER C tracks in this area (it passes underneath them), so a flyover will be created under the RER C tracks and the RER B tracks will be translated in order to create space for the new track.




Here are the three main steps of this operation that will end normally in 2028 :








Obviously it would be better to create a new HSL bypassing Paris from the South (like the interconnexion Est) but it is a long term project because it is very expensive and faces strong local opposition.


----------



## TER200

sergiogiorgini said:


> I suppose it may just have been a matter of "let's not repeat the mistakes we made with the RER A", and a decision that was made during a less stingy era.


Basically, yes.

RER E was on the projects pushed by the overcrowding of RER A, so they decided to build it with even more capacity. The two tracks per direction in the stations were supposed to allow up to 40 trains per hour (up from 30 on RER A) with trains stopping alternatively on each side (same sort of thing than the Gare du Nord - Châtelet tunnel, except there's no strict alternation because the two lines have different frequencies).
When the western extension was finally decided, money and/or space was probably more scarce so they went on with only 2 tracks (including in La Défense, were RER A makes good use of its 4 tracks...) and a planned capacity of 28 tph (now we see on RER A that 30 tph doesn't work well with heavy loaded, high-capacity trains).


----------



## Bren

RER C - Saint-Martin d'Etampes.


IMG_20220812_142757 by *Bren*, on Flickr


IMG_20220812_143148 by *Bren*, on Flickr


----------



## Hourdel

*Porte Maillot*
Some photos made this summer :
*
























































*


https://www.rer-eole.fr/actualite/les-travaux-dete-2022-a-porte-maillot-en-image/


----------



## Hourdel

*La Défense

























































*









Photos Grand Paris Express | [RER E, EOLE - La Défense 📌] Gare du CNIT - 19/08/22


[RER E, EOLE - La Défense 📌] Gare du CNIT - 19/08/22 ©️ Interne Chantier ℹ️ Avancement des travaux au mois d'août : La pose des structures principales et des escalators est presque terminée. Les...




www.facebook.com


----------



## ZeusUpsistos

It looks like a mini MAOUDC.








AMANO Jun-ichi, CC BY 3.0, via Wikimedia Commons


----------



## villadebellis

*M6-Saint-Jacques*
Saint-Jacques is a station on Line 6 of the Paris Métro. It serves Place Saint-Jacques in the 14th arrondissement. The Boulevard Saint-Jacques and Rue du Faubourg-Saint-Jacques also intersect the square. It is one of only a few Métro stations that have a combined entrance and ticket hall at street-level. (wikipedia)


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## 437.001

🔼 🔼 🔼
Wrong thread, isn't it?


----------



## Hourdel

A video of the new tunnel from Saint-Lazare to Nanterre with the three new stations : Porte Maillot, La Défense and La Folie.




Some bad recent news also : the opening of the first phase of the extension (to Nanterre) has been postponed to 2024 and of the second phase (to Mantes-la-Jolie) to 2026.


----------



## BillyF

In Châtelet les Halles RER station, a MI84 of the RER B, a MI09 of the RER A and a Z20500 of the RER D. The RER B trains are paired with a renovated and a non-renovated element.
This video was taken from the platform of the RER D train heading to the south of the Ile-de-France region.


----------



## CabRide

Make yourself comfortable in the driver's seat, and board an MI2N then MI09 train on the Paris RER line A, between the RATP stations of Marne-la-Vallée Chessy Parcs Disneyland, and Saint-Germain-en-Laye (via Paris between Nation and Charles de Gaulle - Étoile).


----------



## ZeusUpsistos

"Droneride" between Haussmann-St-Lazare and Nanterre La Folie in the new tunnel.


----------



## Neric007

It's about time ! The present machines are horrible to use (and slow as hell).


----------



## Blackhavvk

ZeusUpsistos said:


> "Droneride" between Haussmann-St-Lazare and Nanterre La Folie in the new tunnel.


What is the diameter of the tunnel? In our city, they also decided to build a railway tunnel in the city center, but the forum is arguing about what diameter will be needed for a double-track tunnel.


----------



## Hourdel

Blackhavvk said:


> What is the diameter of the tunnel? In our city, they also decided to build a railway tunnel in the city center, but the forum is arguing about what diameter will be needed for a double-track tunnel.


The inside diameter of the tunnel is 9m70.


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## JHPart

If you use a modern tunnel boring machine, the diameter is more than 7 meters.


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## BillyF

A renovated Z2N IDFM train is stopping at Paris Gare de Lyon on the RER D suburban line. This RUPO train is bound for Corbeil Essonnes.


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## Hourdel

Retrospective of the works made in 2022 :





And a few recent pictures, one of the new viaduct at Porte de la Chapelle :








Source


And others of the the tunnel (built with the cut-and-cover method) that will link the tracks from Gare de l'Est to this viaduct :































Source


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## ZeusUpsistos

*La Défense*

Construction of the giant station back in 1966.








Source


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## Clery

RMTransit just released a great review about Paris RER. He perfectly nailed the reason why I love so much that network.

He hasn’t mentioned though the regularity issues multiple RER lines suffered of in the past decade. While things seem to go a bit better on lines A and D, there‘s still a lot to be done to improve line B.


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