# Similarities between Japan and India



## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Japan and India are two of my favorite countries (not that I dont like every other country in the world). So I thought id make a comparison of the two cultures. It is very interesting and cool to note similarities, some direct, and some coincidence.

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*Warrior Class:*

Japan - Samurai

India - Kshatriya


*God of Death:*

Japan - Enma _(direct translation)_

India - Yama _(direct translation)_


*Personification of Death:*

Japan - Shinigami

India - Yamaduta


*Forms of Respect to Elders:*

Japan - bowing before elders

India - touching feet of elders


*Classical Swords:*

Japan - Katana

India - Khanda


*Name of Temple Gateway:*

Japan - Torii _(these two seem too similar to be coincidence, could anyone confirm?)_

India - Torana _(these two seem too similar to be coincidence, could anyone confirm?)_


*Native Beliefs:*

Japan - Shinto/Buddhist philosophy

India - Vedic/Buddhist philosophy


*Similar Philosophy:*

Japan - Bushido

India - Dharma


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

My Lord Vaastu...we think alike! Japan and India are two of my favourite countries also! I had also thought there were many similarities, ranging from cuisine to languages - great work!


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Now if only India made its own anime and manga


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

I've got some others

This one isnt a very nice one:

*Voluntary Suicide* - at the death of a loved one / dear one

India: Sati
Japan: Oibara 

*Classical music*

India: Carnatic music - Mrdingam and Veena used widely
Japan: Gagaku music - Taiko (and recently, wadaiko) and Shamisen used widely

*Indigenous religion*

India: Hindu pantheon of gods symbollic of many elements of the earth. eg. Agni - god of fire and the sun
Japan: Shinto spirits symbollic of elements of earth. eg. Amateratsu - god of the sun


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

There were also other forms of voluntary suicide which were considered honourable. The two main methods used in ancient India were:

- self-immolation (used as a form of protest, or philosophical austerity, or such as in sati and jauhar, etc)

- self-starvation (chosen because it gave people time to re-evalutate their choice, such as in sallekhana, etc)

And yeh, both traditional philosophical systems and gods, seem to have a connection to nature, and I love both country's classical music


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

VaastuShastra said:


> There were also other forms of voluntary suicide which were considered honourable. The two main methods used in ancient India were:
> 
> - self-immolation (used as a form of protest, or philosophical austerity, or such as in sati and jauhar, etc)
> 
> ...


Yeah. The rituals of the *kshatriyas* were very similar to the rituals of the samurai - both were warrior societies choosing "death over dishonour." The *Rajputs* practiced *Jauhar* (an explanation for those who dont know). In situations where the Rajputs were besieged, and victory was impossible, the men would ride out in a suicide charge, while the women would burn themselves to death to avoid molestation by the capturers.


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## Sen (Nov 13, 2004)

this comparison is far strectched......amd some are just false.


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

VaastuShastra said:


> And yeh, both traditional philosophical systems and gods, seem to have a connection to nature, and I love both country's classical music


Classical music of India I love. I have heard more of Hindustani, and I play the tabla, but I love Carnatic music as well - distinct Asian sound - similar to Hindustani but has its own flavour


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

Sen said:


> this comparison is far strectched......amd some are just false.


Oh really? Which ones?


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Sen, I dont mean to say they have common origin - im just comparing the similarities between cultures - I meant no offense. I think its cool that Asia shares a lot in common.


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## Sen (Nov 13, 2004)

VaastuShastra said:


> Sen, I dont mean to say they have common origin - im just comparing the similarities between cultures - I meant no offense. I think its cool that Asia shares a lot in common.


but don't you think some of the concepts you mentioned are present in many cultures, in fact MOST cultures? (like the God of Death, warrior class etc...)


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## Sen (Nov 13, 2004)

the Nigel Effect said:


> Oh really? Which ones?


Bushido and Dharma, how are they similar?


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## Sen (Nov 13, 2004)

the Nigel Effect said:


> Yeah. The rituals of the *kshatriyas* were very similar to the rituals of the samurai - both were warrior societies choosing "death over dishonour." The *Rajputs* practiced *Jauhar* (an explanation for those who dont know). In situations where the Rajputs were besieged, and victory was impossible, the men would ride out in a suicide charge, while the women would burn themselves to death to avoid molestation by the capturers.


Honour over death is valued by ALL warrior class, including the ones in feudal Europe.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Sen said:


> but don't you think some of the concepts you mentioned are present in many cultures, in fact MOST cultures? (like the God of Death, warrior class etc...)


But Enma is a direct translation of Yama - which is why I mentioned it.

Its not that they are both death gods, its that they are the same death god.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yama

Yama (Sanskrit: यम), also known as:

- Yamarāja (यमराज) in India

- Yanluowang (閻羅王) in China

- Enma Dai-Ō (閻魔大王) in Japan

The name Yanluo is a shortened Chinese transliteration of the Sanskrit term Yama Rājā, or "King Yama". Enma Dai-Ō is a further transliteration, meaning "Great King Yama", where Enma means Yama, Enma-Ō means Yama Rājā and Enma Dai-Ō would be equivalent to Yama Mahārāja. This means Naraka, Di Yu and Jigoku (Indian, Chinese and Japanese underworld) share some common mythology, and also, many other gods have transferred across borders, like Garuda, Shiva, Hanuman, etc, which are part of the Four Heavenly Kings and Seven Gods of Fortune.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Im not trying to be nationalistic or anything - I despise nationalism, so dont think that im trying to claim India is some fountain of world culture or anything - I know that all cultures have an effect on all other cultures - its just that Japan and India are two of my favorites, which is why I wanted to compare them.


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

Sen said:


> Bushido and Dharma, how are they similar?


Both Bushido and Dharma are codes of conduct - ways of life. The difference is that one applies solely to the warrior class.

Dharma, however, can be applied to the warrior class - the kshatriyas used the concept widely - and the concept of Dharma in war is relative to both Bushido and European chivalry.


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

Sen said:


> Honour over death is valued by ALL warrior class, including the ones in feudal Europe.


Ok, but this topic is not comparing India/ Japan to feudal Europe, is it?


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

the Nigel Effect said:


> I've got some others
> 
> This one isnt a very nice one:
> 
> ...


Goddess* of the sun


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

Sen said:


> this comparison is far strectched......amd some are just false.


Yes alot if not most are far stretched and can be compared to any other society.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Maki chan - do you know where the name 'torii' came from?


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

Here is an example of japanese theatre known as Noh, it is considered the oldest form of theatre in the world.




Here is japanese classical music known as 'sankyoku'





Can someone post indian classical music and classical theatre so i can see the similarities, if there are any?


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

There are similarities - but I dont think there is a direct realtionship 

Here is an example of Kathakali:


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

VaastuShastra said:


> Maki chan - do you know where the name 'torii' came from?


"The origin of the word "torii" is not known. One theory is that it was designed for birds to rest, as hinted by the kanji (鳥 tori: bird; 居 i: place). This is because in Shintoism, birds are considered messengers of the gods. A second theory is that it is derived from the term tori-iru (取り入る: pass through and enter)."

Also i do not see how that relates i am just saying many of the comparisons are far stretched such as the death in person or whatever
shinigami etc that can be compared to the grim reaper in europe and who knows what else.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Maki chan - I know that Shinigami can be compared to grim reaper and stuff, but I was only comparing Japan and India in this case, otherwise I would have noted that too


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

^^ lol oops . Anyways since you are interested in japanese culture here is a japanese folk song known as 'sakura sakura' it is a couple hundred years old almost all japanese know and love this song.




Here is the song with more 'traditional' instruments in this case with a japanese flute




I love traditional music! feel free to post some traditional indian songs since i would be interested in hear them .


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

^^
Very nice 

I also like noh theatre - I love the masks/makeup which noh actors wear.

Akira Kurosawa being my favorite director, used noh for inspiration I think.


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

India has too many types of theatre to name... but I wiki'd for a picture and the first one I can find is one from Yakshagana - 










And here is an example of Carnatic music:

Composed by the great Lalgudi Jayavarman






and an example of Hindustani classical - the other branch of Indian classical

Here is the great Shivkumar Sharma with his son Rahul Sharma on the santoor, accompanied by Ustad Zakir Hussain on the tabla.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

This song *Vande Mataram* isnt very old, but is known by all Indians:


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

Did the youtube videos work?


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

No, I cant see them - to post youtube, just take the code from the end of the link, and place [..youtube..] and [../youtube..] before and after (without dots of course).

Here is the Yakshagana theatre you mentioned:






And also, Indian martial art of Kalaripayattu:


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

^^ no..not for me hey after listening to those songs, one of the instruments in this japanese song kind of sounds like the first song vaastu posted have a listen  At around "3:28" Do they sound alike or am i crazy?




 This song is cool its like old meets new(in this case western style music)


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

Thanks Vaastu. Music sounds great guys! Japanese culture is very interesting, I find Japan an interesting nation, along with India.

PS - Videos are up now!


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Great song - I like it!

Here is more modern Indian music


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

I also love Japanese art:










And am a big fan of manga and anime of course 

Similar to Indian art:










--

BTW, Maki chan - the instrument in your last song is one of my favorites!

I agree it is very much like the Indian Veena in its sound 

It is also very much like this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VldKoqgDvoI

Which Nigel posted


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

^^ :lol:!!!(at the rock song)
So does that instrument sound alike? In the video i posted..."At around "3:28" Do they sound alike or am i crazy?"


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Maki-chan said:


> ^^ :lol:!!!(at the rock song)
> So does that instrument sound alike? In the video i posted..."At around "3:28" Do they sound alike or am i crazy?"


I think so too - they are very similar built from the look of it - with a large resonance chamber


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

Here is a traditional japanese festival notice that when the girl sings she sings really similar to how the chinese sing


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

Here is traditional japanese court music and dance, this type of music(gagaku) and dance has been unchanged for hundreds of years  So this is the same as what they did hundreds of years ago no different.





When i was a little girl i remember my mom took me to watch one of these i was scared lol.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

I like that kind of singing - here is some female singing on an Indian song:






Nina Virdee:


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Also see Anoushka Shankar, daughter of famous Indian classical player, Ravi Shankar:


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

^^ cool, except the chinese hanfu looks nothing(well it does, comparable to any other asian dress) like a kimono though i am sure the kimono came from it or was influenced by it but they dont look alike that much anymore.


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

Also dont you think that is kind of stretched to say "chinese started making sushi", while yes they were making something similar to Sushi and made the 'foundation' for sushi it is *not* sushi.

"The basic idea behind the preparation of sushi, a well-known Japanese dish, is the practice of preserving fish with salt and fermenting with rice, a process that has been traced back to Southeast Asia where fish and rice fermentation dishes still exist today. The oldest form of sushi in Japan, Narezushi resembles this dish very closely. In Japan, Narezushi evolved into Oshizushi and ultimately Edomae Nigirizushi which the world knows today as *"sushi" and has little resemblance to this original Southeast Asian food*.

*Today's dish internationally known as "sushi" (nigirizushi; Kantō variety) is a fast food invented by Hanaya Yohei (華屋与兵衛; 1799 - 1858) at the end of Edo period in today's Tokyo (Edo)*. People in Tokyo were living in haste even over one hundred years ago. The nigirizushi invented by Hanaya was not fermented and could be eaten by hands (or using a bamboo toothpick). It was an early form of fast food that could be eaten at a road side or in a theater.

*Modern Japanese sushi has little resemblance to the traditional fermented rice dish. When the fermented fish was taken out of the rice, only the fish was consumed and the rice was discarded*. The strong-tasting narezushi made near Lake Biwa resembles the traditional fermented dish."


There is * no * denying the great cultural exchange between Tang china and japan, and the chinese influenced basically everything on japanese culture. But japanese culture is much more than just a 'tang' copy, it is unique and has its own character and its own native history too.


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## duskdawn (May 13, 2006)

Maki-chan said:


> There is * no * denying the great cultural exchange between Tang china and japan, and the chinese influenced basically everything on japanese culture. But japanese culture is much more than just a 'tang' copy, it is unique and has its own character and its own native history too.


No way to deny what you said Maki, I posted this simply because some people are not familiar with our culture especially about the "self shamefulness value" and "sitting on the ground" etc. I have no intention to flood this friendly thread between India and Japan.  I'm not here to claim how China is more similar to Japan etc. I was just replying towards several previous points.

About the Hanfu and Kimono, these are the basic differences:
1. Kimono's sleeves are straight compared to Hanfu
2. The Quju part (I don't know what you call in Kimono) is totally different, Hanfu is more flexible while Kimono is tight.

Hanfu (Left) and Kimono (Right)










And comparing China, Japan and Korea










Forgive me, I love those East Asian costumes.


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

^^ me to


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Although Indian clothing changed a lot with the influence of Middle Eastern and British invaders (similar to Manchu period in China), I guess it bears some similarities:





































I prefer modern fashion to traditional clothing worldwide really. In less conservative times, Indian fashion tended to be more revealing, because a tropical climate dictates less clothing - a princess or courtesan might have worn something like this:


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

^^ hmm not really because they all show to much skin, like notice all the asian ones the arms are covered etc.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Thats true - I guess Indian sari most resembles the Greek/Roman clothing - but they use similar materials, dyes, patterns, etc


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

Maki-chan said:


> ^^ hmm not really because they all show to much skin, like notice all the asian ones the arms are covered etc.


Well most saris would not look like that - those are stylized modern ones. Most would be far more modest, and show far less skin than those. But still it is unique to its own, not much like other Asian clothes. But the arms are normally covereed.


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## Sen (Nov 13, 2004)

@duskdawn. I think Chinese stopped sitting on the ground after Jin Dynasty (两晋十六国），approx 4th century AD. It is a result of Barbarian invasion of China (五胡乱华），the reason is that they ride horses often so sitting on the ground is painful for them, and thus when they ruled China the whole custom changed, correct me if I am wrong.


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## duskdawn (May 13, 2006)

^^You are partly right. Chair (胡床) was first seen in China in Han dynasty and largely seen in 五胡乱华, but the word 椅子 and it's universal use in daily lives was until late Tang and following Song dynasty.
http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/5003435.html


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

Sitting on the ground is just...natural


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## duskdawn (May 13, 2006)

the Nigel Effect said:


> Sitting on the ground is just...natural


But sitting on the floor are also different between China/Japan/Korea and India. Correct me if I'm wrong.

East Asian "Kneel sitting" / 跪坐










Indian 盘坐


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

^^ yeah :lol: My brother always tells me and my mom we will break our feet because of how we sit.


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## Jai (Jan 5, 2003)

duskdawn said:


> Indian 盘坐


尽管印度人吃反时盘坐吃，这么不真是＇印式＇的坐嘛









^^ 但因荷华的瑜伽位置是最辨认的印度教的瑜伽位置好像竟被等同＇印式＇的坐把?

Because the "Lotus Position" is the most widely recognized Hindu Yogic position, it seems to have been associated with India, though its not necessarily the usual "Indian way" of sitting. 

I remember as a kid when the elementry school teacher told us to sit "Indian style", me and my best friend at the time who was Potawatomi used to have very heated arguments over which Indians she was actually talking about. I guess it applies equally though


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## _00_deathscar (Mar 16, 2005)

It's the "tradtional" way though, so to speak.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

duskdawn said:


> But sitting on the floor are also different between China/Japan/Korea and India. Correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> East Asian "Kneel sitting" / 跪坐
> 
> ...


Actually both of those ways of sitting are in India.

Kneel sitting = *vajrasana*

Second one = *padmasana*

So it just seems to be a matter of preferance.










*Vajrasana* = diamond/thunderbolt pose










*Padmasana* = lotus pose

In China and Japan some monks use the lotus pose, and in India, people who practice yoga use either pose - so there is no difference between India/Japan/China/Korea.


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

^^ interesting!, I think india influenced alot of chinese things(but CHina has changed alot since the past with the numerous invasions etc) and in turn china influenced japan alot.


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## _00_deathscar (Mar 16, 2005)

Ah, you learn something new every day.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Both poses are designed so that the spine is straight during meditation - because a non-straight spine is said to inhibit meditation. 

During meditation, the body has to remain upright even if the person has no control over their muscles, which both poses accomplish. 

In comparison, laying down to create a straight spine, one might fall asleep.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Also, its worth mentioning that the pagoda/stupa used in many places in the east, is derived from the stupas of the ancient Buddhists, such as this one at Sanchi:










Like this stupa in Japan:


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

^^ ooooh never knew that.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Maki-chan said:


> ^^ ooooh never knew that.


The modern 'pagoda' in East Asia, 'pagoda' in South East Asia, and 'pagoda' in India, descend from this early stupa, which was a monument designed to house the relics of the Buddha.

So really, all of the East's religious buildings (South Asia, East Asia and South East Asia) have a common ancestor  

That means Hindu temples (like Angkor Watt) and Buddhist pagodas (like Borobodur), come from the same principle (although of course, the designs have varied a lot since then).


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## _00_deathscar (Mar 16, 2005)

Aren't some Hindu temples over three thousand years old though?


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Yeh some are very old, but the style of them changed after the invention of the stupa. This is why I thought the words *'torana'* and *'torii'* might be related - because they both refer to temple gates that stand before these sort of buildings 

Here is a Hindu temple from Bali, Indonesia:










And a Hindu temple from elsewhere in Indonesia:










Both of the types of spires are derived from the Buddhist stupa.

Although the latter style is more common to South East Asia and South Asia - while the former style is more common to South East Asia and East Asia


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

Torii comes from different meaning though.


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## Jai (Jan 5, 2003)

VaastuShastra said:


> Also, its worth mentioning that the pagoda/stupa used in many places in the east, is derived from the stupas of the ancient Buddhists, such as this one at Sanchi:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not only Buddhist religious Stupa architecture, but the tower-Pagoda architecture that most people commonly assocate with East Asian architecture has its origins in India, namely the "Hima Sikhara" or "Himalayan Peak" or "Snow Tower" architecture that is associated with Hindu hill-style architecture in northern India.

The spread of Buddhism from India saw the spread of this architecture into Tibet, Central Asia and Mongolia, where it was transmuted to China and eventually Korea and Japan.


Legend has that the ultimate origins of the tower-Pagoda style can be traced back to a single temple, the *Baijnath Temple* in Himachal Pradesh. Dedicated to Shiva, it one of the most sacred and until very recently one of the hardest to reach places of pilgrimage in India.

While the current temple is in the Shikhara style, it was built in the 1100s on top of an even older temple that dates back possibly one and a half to two thousand years earlier. This original Baijnath Shiva temple, the ultimate source of tower-Pagoda architecture, was said to embody the essence of the mountain shape in a stepped pattern. The sacred shape of the mountain, which all Hindu temples emulate, symbolizes spiritual advancement to utlimate enlightenment.










Both the original Baijnath temple, which exists in a sort of collective civilizational architectural memory, as well as the current Shikhara style temple that took its place has had a great impact on the spread of hill style architecture as more and more temples started to emulate this style.

As the (original) Baijnath temple grew in importance 2000+ years ago, more and more temples in the region started emulating it. As massive blocks of stone are harder and more expensive to work with in the hills, this hill archictecture branched off into woodwork with carvings done of wood of what you'd usually find in stone in other Hindu temples in India. These temples had unique roofs designed to protect from both snow and rain the delicate woodwork and carvings underneath. 

As wood carvings and style became increasingly popular and eventually became a school of Hindu temple architecture in its own right some 1000 years ago. Some examples from mainland India:

*Shree Bhima Kali Ji Temple*, Sarahan Bushahr, which is dedicated to the mother goddess Bhimakali (Devi):




























Another example is the *Nyatapola Temple Siddhi Laxmi Temple* in modern day Nepal:




























Or the *Hidimba Devi Temple* at Manali, built over an ancient cave temple dating back thousands of years:



























Or a small, but beautiful temple that my father once visited (and I hope to visit someday), the *Prashar Temple *at Pandoh:









--------==--=--==-------



VaastuShastra said:


> And a Hindu temple from elsewhere in Indonesia:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Prambanan temple, which incidently is the largest Hindu temple outside of India, really can't be traced back to the Stupa, per se, but architecturally can purely be traced back Oriya Hindu temple architecture. This Oriya-derivative architectural form was the one that actually influenced Hindu and Buddhist temples in SE Asia and not vice versa, which _in turn_ re-influenced Bengali and Assamese Hindu temple architecture in India after the decline of Buddhism there.

Indeed, most of SE Asian temple architecture is dervied from East Coast Indian architecture. Whereas Balinese and Island Hindu architecture is derived from a fusion of indigenous, Tamil and tower-Pagoda styles.


Interesting thread BTW, learned a lot. Thanks to all for participating.

Cheers,
Jai


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## Purple Dreams (Jan 31, 2007)

VaastuShastra said:


> Although Indian clothing changed a lot with the influence of Middle Eastern and British invaders (similar to Manchu period in China), I guess it bears some similarities:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Indian clothes are gorgeous. I have some.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Thanks for the info Jai! 

I had been told that the stepped pagoda style had come from India, but I didnt know how accurate that assesment was, because I thought the source probably just meant that it descended from the stupa. 

Those temples are wonderfull by the way - I wish they were better looked after - most of them ive not seen in detail before now. And I wish more were built in that style across India today.

P.S. I always thought Angkor Watt was the largest temple outside India - at least in area?


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## Sen (Nov 13, 2004)

I heard the earliest pagoda is used to store the bones of Buddha? I am pretty sure the concept of pagoda comes from India, before the introduction of Buddhism Chinese didn't build any pagodas, up until today most pagoda have a chamber used to store the bones of Buddha or some famous monks who achieved nirvana.

sorry I dont mean bones, I meant she li zi, um...stones?


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Yeh - Buddha relics - they were stored in under the earliest pagodas - or stupas - and that tradition seems to have continued into modern pagodas.


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## duskdawn (May 13, 2006)

^^ I used to talk about Shelizi (Buddha relics) with one of my indian colleagues, he never heard about that and laughed at me making up strange things. lol


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Sounds like that person dosent follow history


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## kenny_in_blue (Jul 3, 2006)

:lol: shame on you Maki Chan! You had this huge argument with me over the whole China-Japan issue and now you all of the sudden agree faced with this massive arguments?  Shame on you! :yes:


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

^^
Chill out man


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

kenny_in_blue said:


> :lol: shame on you Maki Chan! You had this huge argument with me over the whole China-Japan issue and now you all of the sudden agree faced with this massive arguments?  Shame on you! :yes:


.....Dont you remember i put "(japan got alot of things from china such as kanji, buddhism etc), i did not deny japan-chinese relations i was just pointing out to you the *unique* things of japan such as shinto hiragana etc, Dont start this again hno:.


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## kenny_in_blue (Jul 3, 2006)

VaastuShastra said:


> ^^
> Chill out man


I think i will  its just funny because she was so over confident she was right just a couple of day ago. :lol:


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

^^ ? i was right a couple of days ago, i dont see anything i said wrong. The food is different,the religion,the language is different whats wrong with that? That is what i said. 
Me:
"There is no denying the great cultural exchange between Tang china and japan, and the chinese influenced basically everything on japanese culture. But japanese culture is much more than just a 'tang' copy, it is unique and has its own character and its own native history too."


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## kenny_in_blue (Jul 3, 2006)

Maki-chan said:


> ^^ ? i was right a couple of days ago, i dont see anything i said wrong. The food is different,the religion,the language is different whats wrong with that? That is what i said.


You didnt say it like that :lol: food is different? I think someone just pointed out that sushi derived from China and your diets are still pretty much the same. I mean wheres the huge difference between a middle class Japanese diet and a middle class Chinese diet? The religion derived from China and India aswell, i dont think i ever claimed Japan and China being simililiar linguisticly. I think you should just confess you where way over your head before id really like that.


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

^^ Um shinto is a native japanese religion(in other words shintoism does not come from china/india), i guess you didnt learn anything from what i told you... Chinese food is very different than japanese food, the chinese would even agree with that.
Didnt you read my post about the Sushi on this thread.

"Also dont you think that is kind of stretched to say "chinese started making sushi", while yes they were making something similar to Sushi and made the 'foundation' for sushi it is *not* sushi.

"The basic idea behind the preparation of sushi, a well-known Japanese dish, is the practice of preserving fish with salt and fermenting with rice, a process that has been traced back to Southeast Asia where fish and rice fermentation dishes still exist today. The oldest form of sushi in Japan, Narezushi resembles this dish very closely. In Japan, Narezushi evolved into Oshizushi and ultimately Edomae Nigirizushi which the world knows today as *"sushi" and has little resemblance to this original Southeast Asian food*.

*Today's dish internationally known as "sushi" (nigirizushi; Kantō variety) is a fast food invented by Hanaya Yohei (華屋与兵衛; 1799 - 1858) at the end of Edo period in today's Tokyo (Edo)*. People in Tokyo were living in haste even over one hundred years ago. The nigirizushi invented by Hanaya was not fermented and could be eaten by hands (or using a bamboo toothpick). It was an early form of fast food that could be eaten at a road side or in a theater.

*Modern Japanese sushi has little resemblance to the traditional fermented rice dish. When the fermented fish was taken out of the rice, only the fish was consumed and the rice was discarded*. The strong-tasting narezushi made near Lake Biwa resembles the traditional fermented dish."
Please dont derail this thread.


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

And here are * direct* quotes from our 'argument' 
"All asians do use similar food such as rice etc"
"Karma is a darmic religion thing so the buddhist aspect yes"
"japan got alot of things from ancient china such as kanji writing etc "
Like i said i was just pointing out to you the unique things of japan not denying anything, like i said those are DIRECT quotes from the other thread that i said before anyone else came.

This is also a direct quote but from this thread.
"There is no denying the great cultural exchange between Tang china and japan, and the chinese influenced basically everything on japanese culture. But japanese culture is much more than just a 'tang' copy, it is unique and has its own character and its own native history too."


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## kenny_in_blue (Jul 3, 2006)

Maki-chan said:


> Chinese food is very different than japanese food, the chinese would even agree with that.


Maybe so, your diet is quite similiar however.



Maki-chan said:


> *Modern Japanese sushi has little resemblance to the traditional fermented rice dish. When the fermented fish was taken out of the rice, only the fish was consumed and the rice was discarded*. The strong-tasting narezushi made near Lake Biwa resembles the traditional fermented dish."
> Please dont derail this thread.


So just because the Chinese didnt eat the rice but discarded it that makes sushi completely Japanese?



Maki-chan said:


> ^^ Um shinto is a native japanese religion(in other words shintoism does not come from china/india), i guess you didnt learn anything from what i told you...


Right, this is from wikipedia by the way.



> A number of theories exist about the ancestors of today's Japanese people. Most scholars agree that there was at least one migration from East Asia and perhaps another from Central Asia to the ancient Japanese Archipelago, though there is no consensus as to where Shinto first developed. Some of them claim that it has always existed in Japan, back into the mists of the Jōmon period. Others maintain that it came about in the Yayoi period (c.300 BC–c.250 AD) as a cultural product of immigrants from Korea and/or China through the Korean Peninsula, who brought agricultural rites and shamanic ceremonies from the continent, which took on Japanese forms in the new environment. Some modern scholars claim that "Shinto," as it is presently understood, did not exist in this age at all and should be more properly referred to as "kami worship".


This is just the beginning of the article if you read the whole article you would find out that Shinto have borrowed much of its rituals from Taoism.

I wont derail this thread any longer, i think you realise your a bit wrong but theres no point ruining this thread because your stubborn.


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

kenny_in_blue said:


> Maybe so, your diet is quite similiar however.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is it your goal to derail this thread?..........hno: 

"So just because the Chinese didnt eat the rice but discarded it that makes sushi completely Japanese?"

Europeans salted their fish to keep it from spoling just like the chinese did, the chinese only ate the fish and discarded the rice, europeans also ate only the fish, *does that make the fermentated fish the europeans ate sushi?* Come on..sushi is different. Just like i said "while yes they were making something similar to Sushi and made the 'foundation' for sushi it is not sushi."

SHinto:
Shinto has been called *"the religion of Japan"*, and the customs and values of Shinto are inseparable from those of Japanese culture *prior(before)* to the influx of Chinese religious ideas that occurred in the mid 4th century.Many famously *Japanese practices have origins either directly or indirectly rooted in Shinto. For example, it is clear that the Shinto ideal of harmony with nature underlies such typically Japanese arts as flower-arranging (ikebana), traditional Japanese architecture, and garden design*(not China). A more explicit link to Shinto is seen in sumo wrestling, where, even in the modern version of the sport, many Shinto-inspired ceremonies must be performed before a bout, such as purifying the wrestling arena by sprinkling it with salt. *The Japanese emphasis on proper greetings and respectful phrasings can be seen as a continuation of the ancient Shinto belief in kotodama (words with a magical effect on the world). Many Japanese cultural customs, like using wooden chopsticks and removing shoes before entering a building, have their origin in Shinto beliefs and practices*. Also, a number of other Japanese religions, including Tenrikyo, have originated from or been influenced by Shinto. Tenrikyo is a religion of Shinto origin with some Buddhist influence.


"i think you realise your a bit wrong "
Where exactly? On what?

"And here are *direct* quotes from our 'argument' 
"*All asians do use similar food such as rice etc*"
"*Karma is a darmic religion thing so the buddhist aspect yes*"
"*japan got alot of things from ancient china such as kanji writing etc* "
Like i said i was just pointing out to you the unique things of japan not denying anything, like i said those are DIRECT quotes from the other thread that i said *before* anyone else came.

This is also a direct quote but from this thread.
"There is no denying the great cultural exchange between Tang china and japan, and the chinese influenced basically everything on japanese culture. But japanese culture is much more than just a 'tang' copy, it is unique and has its own character and its own native history too.""


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## kenny_in_blue (Jul 3, 2006)

I wont reply since it would upset some other forumers, its not very respectfull. Look at it this way your arguing over small details im just saying that Japan have been influenced by China religiously and culturally its not like your denying it either. I dont think salting herring (a fish) is the same as the pre sushi the chinese did, im not saying the Chinese did sushi either. just that it doesnt make sushi completely Japanese. See now i replyed anyways hno: anyways theres a plenty of decent arguments against you its not like im alone with this view.


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

^^ I also said japan has been influenced by china
"And here are *direct* quotes from our 'argument' 
"*All asians do use similar food such as rice etc*"
"*Karma is a darmic religion thing so the buddhist aspect yes*"
"*japan got alot of things from ancient china such as kanji writing etc* "
Like i said i was just pointing out to you the unique things of japan not denying anything, like i said those are DIRECT quotes from the other thread that i said *before* anyone else came.

This is also a direct quote but from this thread.
"*There is no denying the great cultural exchange between Tang china and japan, and the chinese influenced basically everything on japanese culture. But japanese culture is much more than just a 'tang' copy, it is unique and has its own character and its own native history too.*""

So why did you start this argument?

"just that it doesnt make sushi completely Japanese."
Yes it does no other country has sushi, does that make swedish not completey swedish since its a germanic language?
I guess all foods around the world cant be claimed by anyone then according to your logic. Sushi *is* japanese and to argue against that doesnt make any sense.


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## kenny_in_blue (Jul 3, 2006)

Maki-chan said:


> "just that it doesnt make sushi completely Japanese."
> Yes it does no other country has sushi, does that make swedish not completey swedish since its a germanic language?
> I guess all foods around the world cant be claimed by anyone then according to your logic. Sushi *is* japanese and to argue against that doesnt make any sense.


Eh i dont think you can compare a language with a dish, thats just silly! Germanic? There no such thing as an Germanic language you probably think Germans speak Germanic or something! :nuts when it comes to sushi im more thinking of the preperation of the fish which was used by the Chinese before the Japanese i didnt mean that sushi is Chinese obviously. I have to go now, i think that this would be a appropiate time to end this discussion and let you and the rest of the guys go back to the discussion sorry for derailing this thread btw.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

kenny, please stop using this thread for flaming. 

Create another one for that if you must.

P.S. Germanic is the family of languages spoken in northern Europe - she obiously knows more than you.


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

"Eh i dont think you can compare a language with a dish, thats just silly! Germanic? There no such thing as an Germanic language you probably think Germans speak Germanic or something!"

English is a germanic language, german is a germanic language, norwegian is a germanic langauge etc i dont know what you are getting at there? DO i think germans speak 'germanic'? No i think they speak german, a germanic language.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Back on topic:

I dont know much about the history of lingual interaction between the two countries, but it seems Sanskrit is still studied in some Buddhist places in Japan, and may have had some sort of effect on Japanese language:

http://eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/cu...Search_SearchType_0=eric_accno&accno=ED043872



> _'The Influence of Sanskrit on the Japanese Sound Systems' by James H Buck_
> 
> The Japanese syllabary of today would probably not exist in its present arrangement had it not been for Sanskrit studies in Japan. Scholars of ancient Japan extracted from the Devanagari those sounds which corresponded to sounds in Japanese and arranged the Japanese syllabary in the devanagari order. First appearing in a document dated 1204, this arrangement has been fixed since the 17th century. This arrangement was most convenient for the study of Sanskrit and was later applied by scholars of the history of the Japanese language. It was a convenient means to order information and perhaps, even, its early use has a parallel in the earliest English dictionaries which were arranged according to our present alphabet, but whose major purpose was the study of a foreign language. For the English, it was Latin; for the Japanese, it was Sanskrit.


Cool - I wish Japanese was tought in Indian schools, so people could watch films, watch anime, read books and read manga 



> The cultivation of cotton in Japan is traced to an Indian who had drifted to the shore of Aichi Prefecture in 799. To commemorate the event, the Japanese named the village where the shipwrecked Indian had landed Tenjiku; Tenjiku was the Japanese name for India.
> 
> ...
> 
> The Japanese adventurer Tenjiku "Indie" Tokubei is related to have travelled to Siam as well as India onboard a Red Seal ship with Jan Joosten. Upon his return to Japan, Tokubei wrote an essay titled "Tenjiku Tōkai Monogatari" (Relations of travels to India) on his adventures in foreign countries, which became very popular in Japan. He is sometimes referred to as the Marco Polo of Japan.


Apparently, some Japanese people used to study at the Nalanda Buddhist university in India, before it was destroyed by the forces of central asian invaders.

Here is a 17th century Japanese map of the region, used by Tenjiku:










The ruins of Nalanda, destroyed around the medieval era, resulting in the decline of Buddhism in India:












> Founded in 427 A.D. by Buddhist monks at the time of Kumaragupta I (415-455 A.D.), Nalanda was an extraordinary centre of learning for seven centuries. The name probably comes from a combination of nalam (lotus, the symbol of knowledge) and da, meaning "to give", so Nalanda means "Giver of Knowledge". And that is exactly what the university did, attracting prize students from all over India, as well as from China, Indonesia, Japan, Korea, Persia, Sri Lanka, Tibet and Turkey. At its peak, Nalanda played host to more than 10,000 students — not just Buddhists, but of various religious traditions — and its education, provided in its heyday by 2,000 world-renowned professors, was completely free.
> 
> ...
> 
> The accounts of foreign travellers portray a university throbbing with intellectual excitement, a centre of learning devoted not only to the study of Buddhist texts but of Hindu philosophy, the Vedas, and theology in general; logic, grammar and linguistics; the practice of medicine and the study of other sciences, notably mathematics and astronomy; and more down-to-earth subjects like politics, the art of war and even handicrafts. Contemporary visitors speak of a system of education that went well beyond the oral recitation and rote-learning normally practised in monasteries. Nalanda's teachers practised a variety of instructional methods: exposition was followed by debate and discussion, lectures featured lengthy question-and-answer sessions, and ideas were illuminated by extensive resort to parables and stories. Admission required a strict oral examination; literally so, since strangers were not permitted to enter unless they could satisfactorily answer a number of questions from the gatekeeper testifying to their basic level of educational attainment.


In modern times, a coalition of countries led by India, Japan and Singapore, will attempt to re-build and re-open Nalanda university.

This sort of co-operation is not unique - Japan has helped Indian charities and even made an anime from the famous Ramayana epic, to celebrate diplomatic relations in 1992:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0259534/


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

kenny_in_blue said:


> Germanic? There no such thing as an Germanic language you probably think Germans speak Germanic or something!


Please stop ruining this thread - also, I would say Maki knows more than you on this issue, as her statements have been more informed to date. 

Also, the Germanic languages are a family of languages descended from those spoken by the Germanic people - and these include English, German, and some Scandinavian languages. Seriously, I understood when you were ignorant towards Asian countries - but now you dont even know your own language family! (You are a Swede, right?)

Anyway, make some positive contributions.


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

VaastuShastra said:


> Back on topic:
> 
> I dont know much about the history of lingual interaction between the two countries, but it seems Sanskrit is still studied in some Buddhist places in Japan, and may have had some sort of effect on Japanese language:
> 
> http://eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/cu...Search_SearchType_0=eric_accno&accno=ED043872


Yeah...apparently the pronunciations of Japanese are quite similar to those of many Indian languages, particularly Hindi. Not saying there is a similarity in the languages, since there isnt really. But pronunciations are similar in both.


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

^^ Hindi is derived from sanskrit right? Isnt sanskrit an indo-european language? So is hindi an indo european language along with spanish etc?

What about indian food?


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

Maki-chan said:


> ^^ Hindi is derived from sanskrit right? Isnt sanskrit an indo-european language? So is hindi an indo european language along with spanish etc?
> 
> What about indian food?


Hindi IS an Indo European language, but it does not have much in common with any European language, or any other language for that matter. It is its own branch - the Indo-Aryan branch of language - and is closest to other Devanagari script Indian languages like Marathi or Gujarati. But the pronounciation is similar to Japanese for some reason . 

Indian food...well there are LOTS of types of Indian food, and all are great! Wiki if you want to find out more...Im tired:lol:


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## JD (Apr 15, 2006)

the Nigel Effect said:


> Indian food...well there are LOTS of types of Indian food, and all are great! Wiki if you want to find out more...Im tired:lol:


and I am hungry. Could eat some kerela paratha and aloo gobhi:cheers:


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

tytler said:


> and I am hungry. Could eat some kerela paratha and aloo gobhi:cheers:


So could I!


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

Sadly i've never had indian food in my life hno:. Do you guys use rice alot like in japan?


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## JD (Apr 15, 2006)

Maki-chan said:


> Sadly i've never had indian food in my life hno:. Do you guys use rice alot like in japan?


depends on which part of India you are from. Majority eats mix of both (inclination towards wheat).


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

Maki-chan said:


> Sadly i've never had indian food in my life hno:. Do you guys use rice alot like in japan?


Yeah. However it is also eaten with wheat breads like roti, naan etc. especially in the North and in the south it is eaten with rice based foods like idli. What is dosa made of? I never have known!


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## JD (Apr 15, 2006)

the Nigel Effect said:


> Yeah. However it is also eaten with wheat breads like roti, naan etc. especially in the North and in the south it is eaten with rice based foods like idli. What is dosa made of? I never have known!


lentils I guess.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Maki-chan said:


> Sadly i've never had indian food in my life hno:. Do you guys use rice alot like in japan?


Yeh - a lot of our food contains rice (basmati rice is my favorite)...

But also, sometimes Indian types of bread.

Or both 

My favorite Indian food (tandoori chicken):










My second favorite Indian food (lamb biryani):










My third favorite Indian food (chikken tikka masala):










My fourth favorite Indian food (saaru):


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

^^ The last one kind of looks like a japanese soup,but the rice you guys use is different, we use white rice(japonica).


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

Double post.. 
Actually i have a question excuse me for my ignorance on India but i thought you guys dont eat meat??


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

My favorite Japanese foods are ramen, onigiri, and also the type of omlette which is cooked on a hot plate. 

BTW, it seems one dish that is popular in Japan is Indian in origin:

_Introduced from UK in the late 19th century, "curry rice" (karē raisu カレーライス) is now one of the most popular dishes in Japan. It is not as spicy as its Indian counterpart._]


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Maki-chan said:


> ^^ The last one kind of looks like a japanese soup,but the rice you guys use is different, we use white rice(japonica).


Basmati rice is originally white, but colour is sometimes added using spices such as tumiric, chilli power, and saffron  Also there are other types of rice.

Here is an example of white basmati:


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

^^ Oh yeah i forgot about that curry rice, that is actually one of my favorites . My mom cooks that all the time( i know how to make it too  but i like my kind of more 'spicy').


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## JD (Apr 15, 2006)

Maki-chan said:


> ^^ The last one kind of looks like a japanese soup,but the rice you guys use is different, we use white rice(japonica).


that is white rice, just "spiced" and not just boiled.


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## JD (Apr 15, 2006)

VaastuShastra said:


> My favorite Japanese foods are ramen, onigiri, and also the type of omlette which is cooked on a hot plate.
> 
> BTW, it seems one dish that is popular in Japan is Indian in origin:
> 
> _Introduced from UK in the late 19th century, "curry rice" (karē raisu カレーライス) is now one of the most popular dishes in Japan. It is not as spicy as its Indian counterpart._]


curry rice?


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Maki-chan said:


> Double post..
> Actually i have a question excuse me for my ignorance on India but i thought you guys dont eat meat??


Some people dont, if they are religious, but others do - because cows are venerated by some Hindus, beef is not eaten very often in India - usually lamb or chicken are eaten. But there are many vegetarians in India - the cook the same sort of food, but leave out the meat.


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

VaastuShastra said:


> My favorite Japanese foods are ramen, onigiri, and also the type of omlette which is cooked on a hot plate.
> 
> BTW, it seems one dish that is popular in Japan is Indian in origin:
> 
> _Introduced from UK in the late 19th century, "curry rice" (karē raisu カレーライス) is now one of the most popular dishes in Japan. It is not as spicy as its Indian counterpart._]


*type of omlette which is cooked on a hot plate*. 
What is that?? 

Do you know gyoza?


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## JD (Apr 15, 2006)

VaastuShastra said:


> Yeh - a lot of our food contains rice (basmati rice is my favorite)...
> 
> But also, sometimes Indian types of bread.
> 
> ...




chikken tikka masala isn't Indian (british really) and not that good.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

tytler said:


> curry rice?


This is the only good picture I could find:










Looks like a standard Indian curry.


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

tytler said:


> curry rice?


Yes it came from India and in japan we have curry rice, curry noodles, and curry bread. When i make it or my mom we use onions carrots and potatoes(and of course curry 'sauce') and the meat we use is beef and you eat it in a large bowl, the rice we use is the white 'japonica' rice or the 'sticky' japanese rice. I put the curry over the rice though, most japanese just put them side by side.I dont know how they make it in India though.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Maki-chan said:


> *type of omlette which is cooked on a hot plate*.
> What is that??
> 
> Do you know gyoza?


Im not sure what the name of that omlette is....

I know gyoza, and eat them sometimes, but im not a big fan


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## JD (Apr 15, 2006)

VaastuShastra said:


> This is the only good picture I could find:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


but it's only served with rice hence the name curry rice? what it's made up of?


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## JD (Apr 15, 2006)

Maki-chan said:


> Double post..
> Actually i have a question excuse me for my ignorance on India but i thought you guys dont eat meat??


Nope we don't. We just eat turkey


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Maki-chan said:


> Yes it came from India and in japan we have curry rice, curry noodles, and curry bread. When i make it or my mom we use onions carrots and potatoes(and of course curry 'sauce') and the meat we use is beef and you eat it in a large bowl. I dont know how they make it in India though.


It would probably be pretty similar, but not many people would use beef. In the UK, Indian food is mainstream, but beef is one of Britain's favorite meats, so you can find beef curry there


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

tytler said:


> but it's only served with rice hence the name curry rice? what it's made up of?


"Yes it came from India and in japan we have curry rice, curry noodles, and curry bread. *When i make it or my mom we use onions carrots and potatoes(and of course curry 'sauce') and the meat we use is beef and you eat it in a large bowl, the rice we use is the white 'japonica' rice or the 'sticky' japanese rice*. I put the curry over the rice though, most japanese just put them side by side.I dont know how they make it in India though."

Well i think the best thing japan and india have in common is curry because japanese(i especially) LOVE curry rice  I eat it like 3 times or more a week.


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## JD (Apr 15, 2006)

VaastuShastra said:


> It would probably be pretty similar, but not many people would use beef. In the UK, Indian food is mainstream, but beef is one of Britain's favorite meats, so you can find beef curry there


How does beef curry taste like? I have only eaten keema.


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

Maki-chan said:


> ^^ The last one kind of looks like a japanese soup,but the rice you guys use is different, we use white rice(japonica).


We use white rice too (Basmati, usually). Except in biryani we use brown rice I think.

Normally the rice is like this, here served with chicken curry


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## JD (Apr 15, 2006)

Maki-chan said:


> "Yes it came from India and in japan we have curry rice, curry noodles, and curry bread. *When i make it or my mom we use onions carrots and potatoes(and of course curry 'sauce') and the meat we use is beef and you eat it in a large bowl, the rice we use is the white 'japonica' rice or the 'sticky' japanese rice*. I put the curry over the rice though, most japanese just put them side by side.I dont know how they make it in India though."


curry is a generic word so I am not sure what would fit here. One possibility might be onion, carrot and potato (though we won't add carrot in meat curry). And you can serve any way possible, rice on a plate with curry in a bowl or curry over the rice.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

tytler said:


> How does beef curry taste like? I have only eaten keema.


Its not that different from lamb curry, but the beef has a different texture - its tougher - which is why I dont like beef very much. Also, in the UK, there is a curry which is basically a combination of saaru/rasam and grounded beef.


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## JD (Apr 15, 2006)

the Nigel Effect said:


> We use white rice too (Basmati, usually). Except in biryani we use brown rice I think.
> 
> Normally the rice is like this, here served with chicken curry


I don't think Indians use brown rice. Does it even exist in India? It's white rice everywhere (pardon my ignorance:cheers: ).

P.S: Basmati is used for biryani or pulao. It's not regular rice.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

the Nigel Effect said:


> We use white rice too (Basmati, usually). Except in biryani we use brown rice I think.
> 
> Normally the rice is like this, here served with chicken curry


Actually, I tend to use basmati in biryani - the coriander gives it a really green colour - then I mix yoghurt in (I know that isnt proper, but I like to do it)


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## JD (Apr 15, 2006)

VaastuShastra said:


> Its not that different from lamb curry, but the beef has a different texture - its tougher - which is why I dont like beef very much. Also, in the UK, there is a curry which is basically a combination of saaru/rasam and grounded beef.


figures. I don't much like beef anywhere.


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## JD (Apr 15, 2006)

VaastuShastra said:


> Actually, I tend to use basmati in biryani - the coriander gives it a really green colour - then I mix yoghurt in (I know that isnt proper, but I like to do it)


Aren't you suppose to marinate the meat/vegetable with curd? You use curd again? Also, basmati is not used regularly.


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

VaastuShastra said:


> Actually, I tend to use basmati in biryani - the coriander gives it a really green colour - then I mix yoghurt in (I know that isnt proper, but I like to do it)


I mix the dhai in after the biryani is served. I cant eat biryani without dhai!


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## JD (Apr 15, 2006)

the Nigel Effect said:


> I mix the dhai in after the biryani is served. I cant eat biryani without dhai!


you mean the raita?


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

tytler said:


> figures. I don't much like beef anywhere.


I only like it in burgers really - not a very nice meat in my opinion - I didnt eat it for most of my life - but I eat it sometimes if im with friends or something.


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

Do you guys use soy sauce?
My favorite food though of all time is sushi tempura!! I like salmon,cream cheese and avocado sushi tempura its the best!! You guys know what tempura is right?


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

tytler said:


> you mean the raita?


raita sometimes, if its there (usually is) if it isnt, I just use curd, especially with spicy biryani. I mix alot of curd with rice


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## JD (Apr 15, 2006)

VaastuShastra said:


> I only like it in burgers really - not a very nice meat in my opinion - I didnt eat it for most of my life - but I eat it sometimes if im with friends or something.


a cheaper alternative for chicken/turkey. I guess it has do with habit of only eating chicken/lamb in India.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

tytler said:


> Aren't you suppose to marinate the meat/vegetable with curd? You use curd again? Also, basmati is not used regularly.


Im not sure - the way I cook it is to place all the vegetables and spices in water, so that its like a stew - then add the rice and meat to the stew - the end product is basically tastey green rice, plus soft brown lamb. (I leave out things like tomatoes and other vegetables, because I dont like them). I dont cook it 'by the book', but I think thats how real lamb biryani is also cooked.


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

Maki-chan said:


> Do you guys use soy sauce?
> My favorite food though of all time is sushi tempura!! I like salmon,cream cheese and avocado sushi tempura its the best!! You guys know what tempura is right?


Of course! I eat Japanese food all the time, its one of my favourites - I like gyoza more though especially beef yaki gyoza. And no, we dont use soy sauce - unless we are eating soup - but its not something native to India, its used mainly in Indian Chinese cooking.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

the Nigel Effect said:


> I mix the dhai in after the biryani is served. I cant eat biryani without dhai!


Exactly!


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Maki-chan said:


> Do you guys use soy sauce?
> My favorite food though of all time is sushi tempura!! I like salmon,cream cheese and avocado sushi tempura its the best!! You guys know what tempura is right?


Its not a traditional part of Indian cuisine, but I use it a lot - especially on watery dishes.


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## JD (Apr 15, 2006)

Maki-chan said:


> Do you guys use soy sauce?
> My favorite food though of all time is sushi tempura!! I like salmon,cream cheese and avocado sushi tempura its the best!! You guys know what tempura is right?


soy sauce...not sure...I guess no.

Not a fan of sushi (sea food in general) so I really can't say.


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

tytler said:


> soy sauce...not sure...I guess no.
> 
> Not a fan of sushi (sea food in general) so I really can't say.


Tempura isnt always seafood


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

I love raita - I sometimes will just mix plain curry sauce with raita and eat it with a naan, or some rice.

And I think this is the best combination ever: Pilau rice, mixed with raita, with two pieces of tandoori, some tandorri juice dripped onto the rice/raita, and a keema naan. There is simply no better combination in my opinion lol.


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

the Nigel Effect said:


> Of course! I eat Japanese food all the time, its one of my favourites - I like gyoza more though especially beef yaki gyoza. And no, we dont use soy sauce - unless we are eating soup - but its not something native to India, its used mainly in Indian Chinese cooking.


I like gyoza more then normal sushi but sushi tempura>gyoza any day(actually the only sushi i eat is the one i told you the salmon,creamcheese,avocado one).


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## JD (Apr 15, 2006)

the Nigel Effect said:


> Tempura isnt always seafood


I know. essentially deep fried "stuff"..


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

tytler said:


> soy sauce...not sure...I guess no.
> 
> Not a fan of sushi (sea food in general) so I really can't say.


Yeh - although its used a lot, and my father cooks fish a lot, I dont like seafood myself - ive always prefered land meat.


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## _00_deathscar (Mar 16, 2005)

VaastuShastra said:


> BTW, the biryani I mentioned, still kinda looks like this, except a bit greener:


Yes, that'll be the mould settling in....


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## Paddington (Mar 30, 2006)

That's some of the worst looking biryani I've ever seen. oke: 

I don't think India and Japan have much in common, except whatever was exported with Buddhism. 

Indian food and Japanese food are about as different as two cuisines get. When I go to a Japanese restraunt, the stuff there just seems alien to me. It's low on spices, heavy on fish. Very different from Western food, but also equally different from Indian food. I've never developed a taste for it.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

^^
Low on spices, heavy on fish? I can think of a ton of Indian food like that.


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

Me too.^^


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

Paddington said:


> That's some of the worst looking biryani I've ever seen. oke:
> 
> I don't think India and Japan have much in common, except whatever was exported with Buddhism.
> 
> Indian food and Japanese food are about as different as two cuisines get. When I go to a Japanese restraunt, the stuff there just seems alien to me. It's low on spices, heavy on fish. Very different from Western food, but also equally different from Indian food. I've never developed a taste for it.


The japanese restaurant you go to sucks then:lol:


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## _00_deathscar (Mar 16, 2005)

Honestly can't think of many similarities between Japanese and Indian food...


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## Hanshin-Tigress (Apr 10, 2007)

^^ other than curry neither can i


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## _00_deathscar (Mar 16, 2005)

The curry itself isn't very similar either...


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## F-ian (Oct 29, 2005)

I see no Similarites... you guys are trying too hard.... this is like trying to find Similarities between Mongolia and Australia


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## JD (Apr 15, 2006)

Farean said:


> I see no Similarites... you guys are trying too hard.... this is like trying to find Similarities between Mongolia and Australia


it's all about having too much spare time..


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## Mahratta (Feb 18, 2007)

Farean said:


> I see no Similarites... you guys are trying too hard.... this is like trying to find Similarities between Mongolia and Australia


Not really...


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## Sen (Nov 13, 2004)

gladisimo said:


> ^^ My japanese friends commonly eat just plain rice for their lunch, and have a little packet of seasoning that they put in the rice.
> 
> Sushi is more of a treat for them, probably because it takes time to make...
> 
> (this is in Cali)


plain rice everyday? are you serious? wow I wouldn't want to eat plain rice everyday. What seasoning are you talking about? When I am really lazy I just eat white rice and pour soy sauce all over it, and add Laoganma sauce to it, it tastes all right but is not nutritious at all.

so Japanese eat Jiaozi too? that's unknown to me.


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## big-dog (Mar 11, 2007)

^^ I like Laoganma too, now it's everywhere from US to Singapore.

Sushi and Hibachi are my favorite Japanese food. I love both Indian and Japanese food but I have to say they are very very different.


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## Marathaman (Jul 24, 2007)

There aren't that many similarities. The only similarities are due to Buddhist influence, but the Buddhism that reached Japan made its way through Central Asia and China, and had transformed considerably on the way.


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## bobbycuzin (May 30, 2007)

new thread...similarities between india and antarctica


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## Pivra (Nov 20, 2007)

haha, Indian guys should do Syam Pradesh - Bharat Pradesh similarities then hahaha we can get thousands (i literally mean it) of words and everything else hahaha


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## Fox-Tale (Apr 15, 2007)

The only similarity would be both countries love curry rice!


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## Marathaman (Jul 24, 2007)

Pivra said:


> haha, Indian guys should do Syam Pradesh - Bharat Pradesh similarities then hahaha we can get thousands (i literally mean it) of words and everything else hahaha


:cheers:


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## Marathaman (Jul 24, 2007)

Fox-Tale said:


> The only similarity would be both countries love curry rice!


Dunno if curry rice came with Buddhism :lol:


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## Pivra (Nov 20, 2007)

Marathaman said:


> Dunno if curry rice came with Buddhism :lol:


I think curry came to Japan with the British I read it somewhere before going to a Japanese restaurant lol. Its so good tho, if you have a chance try Japanese curry.


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## Mojojojo. (Nov 22, 2006)

bobbycuzin said:


> new thread...similarities between india and antarctica


:lol:


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## Marathaman (Jul 24, 2007)

Pivra said:


> I think curry came to Japan with the British I read it somewhere before going to a Japanese restaurant lol. Its so good tho, if you have a chance try Japanese curry.


Aha! So the curry-loving Brits brought it with them eh?


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## Fox-Tale (Apr 15, 2007)

Pivra said:


> I think curry came to Japan with the British I read it somewhere before going to a Japanese restaurant lol. Its so good tho, if you have a chance try Japanese curry.


Be careful, some Japanese curry contains beef in it!
There are chicken curry and pork curry as well.

I once went to an Indian restaurant operated by Indian staff at The 2005 World Expo, Aichi, Japan.

The menu had "authentic beef curry from India"...:nuts:

Do some people eat beef even in India??


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## Pivra (Nov 20, 2007)

Fox-Tale said:


> Be careful, some Japanese curry contains beef in it!
> There are chicken curry and pork curry as well.
> 
> I once went to an Indian restaurant operated by Indian staff at The 2005 World Expo, Aichi, Japan.
> ...


I dont eat beef but I had the breaded fried pork here in Thailand with curry at a Japanese restaurant.


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## Marathaman (Jul 24, 2007)

^Dunno, Indian-Muslims eat both beef and curry, so the logical conclusion is that they eat beef-curry lol.


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## Fox-Tale (Apr 15, 2007)

^^ I see!
By the way, many Indian travellers to Japan seem to be vegetarians.
I once went to an all-vegetarian Indian curry restaurant in Tokyo,
and their curry was delicious with lots of spices. Didn't even notice they were meat-free.


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## Marathaman (Jul 24, 2007)

^Yeah, Indian veg cuisine is really great. I guess that's why many of us don't mind not eating any meat lol.


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## Fox-Tale (Apr 15, 2007)

^^cool.
Japan also has all-vegetarian meals called "shōjin ryōri" ("devotion cuisine").
But only Buddhist monks and nuns eat them every day.
Ordinary people need to go to specialty restaurants to eat them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_cuisine


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## Marathaman (Jul 24, 2007)

Fox-Tale said:


> ^^cool.
> Japan also has all-vegetarian meals called "shōjin ryōri" ("devotion cuisine").
> But only Buddhist monks and nuns eat them on a daily basis.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_cuisine


Same in India, the priestly class (Brahmins) are vegetarian. People who follow Jain religion are also vegetarians. 
Many highly orthodox families have strict dietary rules, which ensure that no living beings are harmed during the process of making the food.

Many non-brahmin families also don't eat meat for religious reasons. Depending on which survey your refer to, between 30-50% of Indians are vegetarian.


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## Fox-Tale (Apr 15, 2007)

^^ What a high percentage of vegetarians..!! I personally think it's eco-friendly to be vegetarians, especially considering the huge population of India.


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## Pivra (Nov 20, 2007)

Fox-Tale said:


> ^^ What a high percentage of vegetarians..!! I personally think it's eco-friendly to be vegetarians, especially considering the huge population of India.


and I think the world is now seeing that consuming beef also causes environmental issues. hno:


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## Marathaman (Jul 24, 2007)

Fox-Tale said:


> ^^ What a high percentage of vegetarians..!! I personally think it's eco-friendly to be vegetarians, especially considering the huge population of India.


I guess India was always the land of plenty, so people didn't see the need to hunt animals for food, and they could afford such luxuries like keeping their conscience clean. :lol:


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## Mekky II (Oct 29, 2003)

My little touch about european and indian friendship creating wonders : 

"Greco-Buddhism, sometimes spelt Graeco-Buddhism, refers to the cultural syncretism between Hellenistic culture and Buddhism, which developed between the 4th century BCE and the 5th century CE in the area covered by modern Afghanistan, Pakistan and north-western border regions of modern India namely western portions of Jammu and Kashmir. It was a cultural consequence of a long chain of interactions begun by Greek forays into India from the time of Alexander the Great, carried further by the establishment of Indo-Greek rule in the area for some centuries, and extended during flourishing of the Hellenized empire of the Kushans. Greco-Buddhism influenced the artistic, and perhaps the spiritual framework, developments of Buddhism, particularly Mahayana Buddhism, founded in India, which represents one of the two main branches of Buddhism.The Buddhist religious system was then adopted in Central and Northeastern Asia, from the 1st century CE, ultimately spreading to China, Korea and Japan."

Cheers to both indians and japaneses


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## Fox-Tale (Apr 15, 2007)

^^ Buddhism is still alive in Japan. Japan is now the nation of largest Buddist population..

I think India has changed too much in the course of history, while Japan still retains the same old tradition that came from India via China/Korea...


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## Marathaman (Jul 24, 2007)

Fox-Tale said:


> ^^ Buddhism is still alive in Japan. Japan is now the nation of largest Buddist population..
> 
> I think India has changed too much in the course of history, while Japan still retains the same old tradition that came from India via China/Korea...


Buddhism has incorporated itself into Hinduism. A lot of Buddhist ethics were absorbed into Hinduism when organized Buddhism declined during the medieval period, due to several factors including lack of patronage from rulers and invasions from outside the subcontinent. 

Even during the Buddhist period, people were Buddhists and worshipped Hindu gods at the same time. A lot of temples from that era are Hindu-Buddhist-Jain mixed ones.

On the other hand, Hinduism, whose teachings were passed down by family traditions and not via large, expensive institutions and universities, managed to survive, while Buddhism died with the death of the Viharas.


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## Mekky II (Oct 29, 2003)

Fox-Tale said:


> ^^ Buddhism is still alive in Japan. Japan is now the nation of largest Buddist population..
> 
> I think India has changed too much in the course of history, while Japan still retains the same old tradition that came from India via China/Korea...


I would not use the term "changed" talking about India, i would better say they "absorbed" ... to know if it's "too much" or not, it's something i can't answer : 1,2 billions people with so much ethnicities, cultures, languages and so on, you need to dedicated whole your life to study every corners of India to answer this question i think..., if you are not yourself absorbed by India before to be able to answer :lol: 

But look hinduism, it's the oldest religion with tons of gods and i know some greek gods were "absorbed" inside the indian pantheon of gods without foundamentally change hinduism...... :nuts: so, here i can say it was not "too much", in fact to be able to overpass an indian culture, and dramatically "change" it definitely, and so make it completely different from the beginning stage, you need to come from another planet... :lol:


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Fox-Tale said:


> ^^ Buddhism is still alive in Japan. Japan is now the nation of largest Buddist population..
> 
> I think India has changed too much in the course of history, while Japan still retains the same old tradition that came from India via China/Korea...


Hinduism kinda serves the same role as Shintoism in Japan.

I.E. local deities, village shrines, nature spirits, etc, are all present.

A tree-shrine in India:



Very similar to Shinto practice, I think. Also, the way water is used to symbolically wash away impurity in Shinto, Hindus do the same with sacred rivers. Japan and India, are two examples of countries where the ancient nature-worship survives - whereas in Europe, it died out.

Its also one of the reasons I love Japan and India - they are so different from the UK, where I live 

The Buddhist sangha is not as big in India, but the concept of dhyana (zen), has influenced many Indians:

_*"Dhyāna"* in Sanskrit (Devanagari: ध्यान) or *"Jhāna"* in Pāli generally refers to either meditation or meditative states. Equivalent terms are *"Chán"* in modern Chinese, *"Zen"* in Japanese, *"Seon"* in Korean, *"Thien"* in Vietnamese, and *"Samten"* in Tibetan._

And although the Hindus do not practice meditation in order to attain 'mindfulness', or come closer to 'Buddha nature', the postures used, remain the same for example:

1).









2).  

1). Kneel sitting = *vajrasana* (lightning posture) 

2). Crossed legs = *padmasana* (lotus posture)

Both Japan and India, are of course, very different from one another - they have very different histories - but by chance, they also happen to share a lot in common. I wish that India would make manga and anime like Japan - because India's mythological stories and history, would fit quite well into manga and anime.

I also wish that there was a revival of Buddhist philosophy in India.

Also, I found out that some experts in Japan, still speak Sanskrit, and write in the 'Bonji' script, which was called the 'Siddham' script in India:



















Thats so cool!


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

My favorite cinema in the world, is that of Japan. 

I'm especially a fan of directors Kenji Mizoguchi and Akira Kurosawa.

Also I watch a lot of anime, and read a lot of manga.

So I thought I would mention, that there have been some Japan-India co-productions:

*Valley of Flowers (2006):*










A film set in India and Japan, spoken in Hindi and Japanese. 

*Ramayana: The Legend of Prince Rama (1992):*










An anime adaptation of the Ramayana epic poem of India.



Fox-Tale said:


> Be careful, some Japanese curry contains beef in it!
> There are chicken curry and pork curry as well.
> 
> I once went to an Indian restaurant operated by Indian staff at The 2005 World Expo, Aichi, Japan.
> ...


Yes - some people do. 

Warriors traditionally ate any type of meat, because they needed it for muscles.

They also wore leather.

But today, 20-40% of India is vegetarian - 70% of the world's vegetarians live in India.

Beef curry is a British favorite


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## Mekky II (Oct 29, 2003)

VaastuShastra said:


> Very similar to Shinto practice, I think. Also, the way water is used to symbolically wash away impurity in Shinto, Hindus do the same with sacred rivers. Japan and India, are two examples of countries where the ancient nature-worship survives - whereas in Europe, it died out.


I am not so sure of this... christian babies are baptized with "sacred" water, ortodox or some protestant churches do put whole the body inside water, something that assurely came from Zoroastrianism (given to jews during their babylonian exil), Zoroastrianism himself derivated from Hinduism but there was an enormous change : polytheism to monotheism.

Outside this, today the fastest growing religion in Europe is buddhism, but we assurely see it more as a philosophy that a religious practice


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## Marathaman (Jul 24, 2007)

^That's not entirely true. Zoroastrianism and Hinduism perhaps share a common past, but neither was derived from the other in any way.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

NihonKitty said:


> And europeans have arcs..there is essentially no similarities between india and japan other than buddhism. Buddhism has had a big impact on japanese culture; but today 60-80% of japanese are atheist/agnostic and do not practice religion. Japanese today know nothing about buddhism other than going to some ceremonies and cultural festivals. Japanese are buddhist-shinto only in name and by culture. The only similarity i see in food is curry rice, which came to japan via england but it is indian..
> 
> I think the only countries similar to japan culturaly are korea,taiwan; and for modern countries the scandinavian ones (clean, modern, atheist and safe).


Well, the wheel turns - once upon a time, India was rich, and Scandanavia was poor. One day, maybe India will be clean, safe, modern and atheistic. I don't think many Hindus are perticularily religious - they just attend shrines for the sake of tradition.


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## Marathaman (Jul 24, 2007)

VaastuShastra said:


> Well, the wheel turns - once upon a time, India was rich, and Scandanavia was poor. One day, maybe India will be clean, safe, modern and atheistic. I don't think many Hindus are perticularily religious - they just attend shrines for the sake of tradition.


India is an extremely religious country.


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## ukiyo (Aug 5, 2008)

VaastuShastra said:


> Well, the wheel turns - once upon a time, India was rich, and Scandanavia was poor. One day, maybe India will be clean, safe, modern and atheistic. I don't think many Hindus are perticularily religious - they just attend shrines for the sake of tradition.


If India with 1. whatever billion can make a society like japan and scandinavia than yeah i will say it is also similar. USA is richer than scandinavia and japan but i don't really see any similarities in their society at all. Scandinavia is basically the japan of europe. No other western countries even if they are richer are similar to japan in any way, except scandinavian countries. But that is just my opinion; it's not a fact. When it comes to culture which this thread is about, Japan is only similar to, ancient china (and present day taiwan), and korea.


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## Marathaman (Jul 24, 2007)

NihonKitty said:


> Taiwan IS china. But i dont think PRC because after the communist cultural revolution chinese culture changed completely..so korea,taiwan,hong kong.


I see. 




> There is no reason there should be a thread for this..India and Europe share much more, unless you want to make a thread for everysingle country and their similarities in the world..


I'll agree with that. India probably has a lot of similarities with Europe - starting with English of course. 

Not to mention Iran, Arabia and Turkey. A huge amount of influence came from there.

But as far as (hindu/buddhist) culture is concerned, India shares a LOT of similarities with Thailand, Burma, Cambodia and parts of Indonesia. Maybe it'll be better to discuss those.

As far as India-Japan similarities are concerned, I cannot think of any two countries which are more dissimilar. Sorry Vaastu.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

NihonKitty said:


> There is no reason there should be a thread for this..India and Europe share much more, unless you want to make a thread for everysingle country and their similarities in the world..
> 
> As a japanese, and basically all japanese will agree - besides buddhism India and Japan are not similar *at all*.


My attempt to promote commonality, seems to have offended you. If the thread disgusts you so much, then you have my full suppost in closing it - please contact a moderator, and do so. 

I see no harm in comparisons, but if it is going to lead to nationalism, then I rather see the thread shut right now. 

I am well aware of India's many problems - the government is rife with curruption - the population is ignorant - the cities are dirty. But I find it sad that you reacted in this way - it was just a bit of fun.


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## VaastuShastra (Jun 20, 2005)

Pivra said:


> haha, Indian guys should do Syam Pradesh - Bharat Pradesh similarities then hahaha we can get thousands (i literally mean it) of words and everything else hahaha





Marathaman said:


> But as far as (hindu/buddhist) culture is concerned, India shares a LOT of similarities with Thailand, Burma, Cambodia and parts of Indonesia. Maybe it'll be better to discuss those.


Please create such a thread, I would find it most interesting.


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