# THE BELGIAN DREAM



## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

The Belgian dream is just like the Armerican one. Living in a nice, freestanding home with a garden. Dispite all the effort of cities to attract people to the city center, people still want to build a house in the suburbs.

I found some pleasing examples of the Belgian dream on Bingmaps.


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## pesto (Jun 29, 2009)

Interesting. Some of the ones with red roofs remind me of Southern California (minus the swimming pools). Of course, they are not Spanish style but that's hard to see from the air.

The darker roofs look more East Coast.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^ older houses are ofthen with red roof and newer with dark roofs. But it's no guarantee because a lot of new houses are also build with red rooftiles...

Some of them are probably spanish style but most of the red tile houses are in a style that's typical Belgian.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

"Belgians think small, but they are masters at it. The Belgian Dream consists of earning enough to own a free-standing house with a garden, not bought from a previous owner, but preferably built exactly according to personal wishes [4]. This house should also not be further away than 10 kilometers from where your parents live. In contrast to the well-known American Dream, this Dream can be attained by very many people before their 40th birthday. In this process, building regulations are only meant to be ignored. As a matter of fact, all Belgians routinely break the law, if they can do so without harming anyone personally: "arranging things" is their speciality. More visibly, not even the most cautious and law-abiding Belgian pedestrian will wait for a stop-sign if no cars happen to be coming past, as anyone can see that this is simply stupid. "


From : http://www.galactic-guide.com/articles/8R94.html


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## MarkusErikssen (Oct 4, 2005)

Looks great!  Green areas.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

delete


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

Well, that dream seems to be pretty similar to the general idea of what Austrians think a successful live should include. The own built house is a fix starter. I guess, I simply don't feel that ambition at all yet. Maybe I never will. 

In my opinion its good that the decline of the cities was reversed lately and they start growing again, not just their suburbs. But thats another story.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^ My parents are living it for the moment. We first lived in a rowhome in the city center. Today we live in an suburban village not far from that very same city...


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## Chrissib (Feb 9, 2008)

joshsam, do you know what the share of Belgians is that live in single-family-houses? I just started to wonder how high this percentage would be in different parts of the world. In Germany it's roughly 35%


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## Tchek (Oct 8, 2010)

The Belgian dream is indeed very similar to the American dream. To me, it is a petit-bourgeois ideal.

I really dislike it actually... living in a semi-urban environment is my nightmare. Basically it has neither the social and cultural atmsophere of the city, nor the nature of the countryside, add to this the sense of comformity and the close-mindedness of the people living is such place and you got the cocktail.

Not my ideal at all.


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## .for.ce.br (Sep 1, 2010)

Houses are so difficult to cleaning up, apartments are much more practical...

The Brazilian dream, at least in the biggest cities, is living in a nice apartment at the 27th floor, preferably at the beachfront (if it's a coastal city)...


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Chrissib said:


> joshsam, do you know what the share of Belgians is that live in single-family-houses? I just started to wonder how high this percentage would be in different parts of the world. In Germany it's roughly 35%


I tried to find something on the internet but I could'nt find anything. I bet there are more single famely houses in Belgium in percentage than in Germany. But Germany has probably, in percentage, more freestanding single-family-homes.

A lot of single-family-homes in Belgium are rowhouses. Untill the 60ties large zones of rowhousing grew nearby bigger cities housing the middle class of Belgium. From street level they give a very urban feeling with little green in the streets, but every house has it's own (small) garden. Afther the 60ties people became wealtier and started to leave the city for countryside...

This is what i'm talking about:
Tipical Belgian 60ties development.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

.for.ce.br said:


> Houses are so difficult to cleaning up, apartments are much more practical...
> 
> The Brazilian dream, at least in the biggest cities, is living in a nice apartment at the 27th floor, preferably at the beachfront (if it's a coastal city)...


I'm sorry to say but Brazil cities have a lot of single family rowhomes...


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## .for.ce.br (Sep 1, 2010)

joshsam said:


> I'm sorry to say but Brazil cities have a lot of single family rowhomes...


I know it.

I'm just saying the *dream* of the average Brazilian (at least in the biggest cities) is a nice apartment of 180 sq. mts. in one of the floors above the 20th in a residential condo... That's where most people go live when they earn enough money.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

I found these stats on the eurostat website, Belgium has far more detached housing than Germany but not as much as Scandinavia or the Balkans. Here in the UK we are more like Belgium, not many apartments but lots of our houses are rowhomes or semi-detached.










Here though it is not so common to build your own home, large property development companies tend to buy up all the farmland surrounding towns and cities so when it comes to be developed they build the houses in a planned block and then sell them.

There are regional variations though, I read somewhere that 50% of the detached homes built in Wales are self-built compared to only 10-15% in the whole of the UK.

There are more good stats on European housing on the eurostat website.

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/Housing_statistics


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## FabricioBSB (Nov 12, 2009)

.for.ce.br said:


> Houses are so difficult to cleaning up, apartments are much more practical...
> 
> The Brazilian dream, at least in the biggest cities, is living in a nice apartment at the 27th floor, preferably at the beachfront (if it's a coastal city)...


The brazilian middle class live in apartaments not because they dream about living in an apartament, but if people want to live in the best or most central residential areas of the cities, where they can't afford a house, their option is living in an appartament. And still lots of people from all classes live in houses in Brazilian larger cities.


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## Tomb Raider (Mar 21, 2009)

Great, thanks for sharing


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

.for.ce.br said:


> I know it.
> 
> I'm just saying the *dream* of the average Brazilian (at least in the biggest cities) is a nice apartment of 180 sq. mts. in one of the floors above the 20th in a residential condo... That's where most people go live when they earn enough money.


It's funny how societies can be so different, in the minds of most British people living on the 20th floor would probably be associated with the worst social housing projects, drugs, inner-city violence etc.

There are exceptions of course with desirable city apartments for young, single professionals but 95% of families with children would never choose an apartment if they had the money; private outdoor space and a separate entrance are much more sought after.


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## Luli Pop (Jun 14, 2010)

FabricioBSB said:


> The brazilian middle class live in apartaments not because they dream about living in an apartament, but if people want to live in the best or most central residential areas of the cities, where they can't afford a house, their option is living in an appartament. And still lots of people from all classes live in houses in Brazilian larger cities.


^^

they prefer appartements because it's safer.


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## .for.ce.br (Sep 1, 2010)

FabricioBSB said:


> The brazilian middle class live in apartaments not because they dream about living in an apartament, but if people want to live in the best or most central residential areas of the cities, where they can't afford a house, their option is living in an appartament. And still lots of people from all classes live in houses in Brazilian larger cities.


It depends on the city, it depends on the person... I know people here in Fortaleza who can afford a big house in a rich suburb, but prefer to live in an apartment of 300 or 400 sq. mts. in a luxury condo at Beira-Mar avenue with open view to the ocean...

Personally, I live in an apartment (a small one), and I prefer it. I don't like the sensation that people walking in the street can hear what I'm talking inside my home... From the 4th floor and above, only flying people can hear what I'm talking, from outside the window, and flying people doesn't exist!


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## RawLee (Jul 9, 2007)

Jonesy55 said:


> I found these stats on the eurostat website, Belgium has far more detached housing than Germany but not as much as Scandinavia or the Balkans. Here in the UK we are more like Belgium, not many apartments but lots of our houses are rowhomes or semi-detached.
> 
> 
> 
> ...












We are one of the most suburban?:shocked:


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

^^ That surprised me a bit but I've just had a look at a random Hungarian town (Kaposvár) on Google maps and there does seem to be a lot of detached suburban housing.

Some of it looks very much like Belgian style roadside strip development.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

Pecs looks super-suburban, what's going on in the large area to the north-west of the city centre? It looks like completely random sprawl!

Is this a deep Magyar longing to be living as nomads back on the steppes? :lol:


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## nordisk celt83 (Dec 2, 2008)

^^
Remember some countries are more rural than others too... So, somewhere like Slovenia and other Balkan countries are largely rural in population. Therefore they're over-represented in terms of detached homes while the urban environment is in relaity dominated by aprtment living.

Also, have to question some of the findings. I can believe Ireland has the lowest number of people living in apartments alright, but the semi-detached/row housing is way over-represented.


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## nordisk celt83 (Dec 2, 2008)

Unless, the survey is purely urban in nature... Then, I stand to be corrected.
It's just the Ireland figure that seems a bit distorted to me, but the Norway one makes sense!!!


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## GENIUS LOCI (Nov 18, 2004)

RawLee said:


> We are one of the most suburban?:shocked:


I'm surprised that Germany got more flats than Italy (the same level, anyway) as normally German cities appear way more suburban than Italian ones (it is difficult to do a generalization though)
Maybe this is due to the large use of flats for 'social housing' in Eastern Germany during the comunism

Even the data of France and Portugal are 'unespected'


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

*Along with the detached houses, stripmalls and malls are common in Belgium:*


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

nordisk celt83 said:


> ^^
> Remember some countries are more rural than others too... So, somewhere like Slovenia and other Balkan countries are largely rural in population. Therefore they're over-represented in terms of detached homes while the urban environment is in relaity dominated by aprtment living.
> 
> Also, have to question some of the findings. I can believe Ireland has the lowest number of people living in apartments alright, but the semi-detached/row housing is way over-represented.


You will find plenty of houses in the suburbs of Ljubljana, even quite close to the centre. But yes, the more rural countries will tend to have more detached houses.

Regarding Ireland, I've only been to Dublin but the suburbs seemed to be full of semi-detached houses, even more than here in the UK. :dunno:


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## Chrissib (Feb 9, 2008)

GENIUS LOCI said:


> I'm surprised that Germany got more flats than Italy (the same level, anyway) as normally German cities appear way more suburban than Italian ones (it is difficult to do a generalization though)
> Maybe this is due to the large use of flats for 'social housing' in Eastern Germany during the comunism
> 
> Even the data of France and Portugal are 'unespected'


There is a different explanation for Germany. Many people live in buildings with 3 flats stacked, from outside it often looks like a big single-family house. It's true that in eastern Germany the share of flats is higher than in the west, but even in the west it's over 50%.


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## Rietveld (Mar 4, 2007)

RawLee said:


>


These data are incorrect for the Netherlands. About half of all homes in the Netherlands consist of terraced houses. A terraced house isn't the same as a semi-detached house.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

^^ Also in the UK about 25% of homes are terraced houses but in this graph they have lumped them together with semi-detached in one category. It would be good to see them separately, as you say they are not the same.


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## niterider (Nov 3, 2009)

Jonesy55 said:


> You will find plenty of houses in the suburbs of Ljubljana, even quite close to the centre. But yes, the more rural countries will tend to have more detached houses.
> 
> Regarding Ireland, I've only been to Dublin but the suburbs seemed to be full of semi-detached houses, even more than here in the UK. :dunno:


Yes Dublin is surprisingly sprawled and even then is the most similar city in the ROI to UK cities of the same size. The rest of the country is even more suburban and low-density in nature. But it has the luxury of a low population relative to available land and other factors such as a lack of urban tradition, low population, and no post-war rebuilding of urban areas.


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## tk780 (Jun 21, 2007)

GENIUS LOCI said:


> I'm surprised that Germany got more flats than Italy (the same level, anyway) as normally German cities appear way more suburban than Italian ones (it is difficult to do a generalization though)
> Maybe this is due to the large use of flats for 'social housing' in Eastern Germany during the comunism
> 
> Even the data of France and Portugal are 'unespected'


As a comparison between Portugal and Sweden shows, the number of people living in detached houses only tells you so much about how dense or suburban a country's cities are. 

Indeed, German cities are among the least dense and physically largest in Europe despite a comparatively low share of the population living in detached houses. 

I suppose part of the reason is that, as Chrissib said, German apartment buildings often look like oversized single-family homes and house relatively few people on average. German households are on average quite small and living space per person is relatively high. Also, it wouldn't surprise me if the number of people in households living in detached houses was actually below the national average, which means that there might be more detached houses in relation to the total number of residential buildings than the graph suggests.


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## nordisk celt83 (Dec 2, 2008)

Jonesy55 said:


> You will find plenty of houses in the suburbs of Ljubljana, even quite close to the centre. But yes, the more rural countries will tend to have more detached houses.
> 
> Regarding Ireland, I've only been to Dublin but the suburbs seemed to be full of semi-detached houses, even more than here in the UK. :dunno:


Yeah, Dublin is a semi-d mecca in Irish terms... Don't actually live in Dublin myself anymore; live in a commuter town just outside it, Enniskerry. The rest of the country is typified by poor planning and a proponerance of one-off houses, which ruin the landscape.
I had a quick search on google, and the facts for Ireland are from 1992-2005 as there's no data on older housing stock, so that explains things the extent of semi's, which are more common nowadays.
Also, had a quick look on the main property websites and it would put figures at 60-70% detached; 15-20% semi-detached 10% terraced and 5% apartments. (35% of ireland's pop is rural)

Norway, def has the highest number of detached family residences I would have thought. Olso is very sprawling, but seems to function well enough.


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## Dahlis (Aug 29, 2008)

Damn areas like that look really boring when the ground is completely flat.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Dahlis said:


> Damn areas like that look really boring when the ground is completely flat.


as boring as hilly suburbs I guess...


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## Dahlis (Aug 29, 2008)

joshsam said:


> as boring as hilly suburbs I guess...


At least a hill would ad something to the monotone enviroment.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Dahlis said:


> At least a hill would ad something to the monotone enviroment.


Point, but it's not like Belgium is the USA two


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## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

Jonesy55 said:


> It's funny how societies can be so different, in the minds of most British people living on the 20th floor would probably be associated with the worst social housing projects, drugs, inner-city violence etc.
> 
> )


Interesting, thats the same in Germany. Only very recently there are luxury condos on the market. But most rich people (upper middle class, ecucational elite etc) still prefer their bourgeois inner city apartmentt in a historical low rise building. Highrise apartments were not really considered prestigous. But that might change now slowly with new prime developments.


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## .for.ce.br (Sep 1, 2010)

goschio said:


> Highrise apartments were not really considered prestigous.


It's so strange to a Brazilian to hear it! Highrise apartments are very prestigous here at least since the 80's, when the upper middle class condos with 14 floors and above started to spread all over the biggest cities.


Typical Brazilian residential highrise:


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## niterider (Nov 3, 2009)

Yes I've visited the Leidsche Rijn Vinex and I thought it was very impressive. I take your point on the different pressure to efficiently utilise agricultural land in the Netherlands.

With regard to cul-de-sacs I don't mean them _per se_ but rather the type found in North America where they are so far apart that there is 'wilderness' in between them. Of course some people like this and there is abundand land to allow for it in some parts of the world but there's a differnece between 'comfortable' suburban space and almost rural -like patterns which still demand urban service provision. 

I do agree that self-build should be made easier though - people take more pride in their own home if they build it themselves and as long as design regulations etc are adhered to, it can result in a much more diverse and organic built environment than bland mass-produced housing stock.


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## Maria Theresa (Jul 1, 2005)

Interesting to notice that the houses in Belgium are quite small. See the difference between my former neighbourhood in Sao Paulo and the ones in Belgium:

Sao Paulo



















Belgium


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^Uhum the houses I posted are middle class. I can post much much bigger houses if you want....

You don't have to post upper class houses from Brazil and compaire em with Belgian middle class, that's just stupid. Post middle class Brazilian housing to compaire...
And yes Belgian houses might be smaller because it like 10x more expensive to build here than in Brazil....
That said I doubt that middle class housing in Brazil looks that good as the Belgian one...
Feel free to prove me wrong


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

Lol @ those 'typical Brazilian homes'


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

To compaire with your Brazilian upper class housing:
Belgian upper class housing:


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## Maria Theresa (Jul 1, 2005)

joshsam said:


> To compaire with your Brazilian upper class housing:
> Belgian upper class housing:


Nice views of Belgium. Where are those?

Some upper class housing in Rio:

Next to the beach:



















Next to golf estates:










In the middle of the tropical rain forest:


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Maria Theresa said:


> Nice views of Belgium. Where are those?


These in particular are in the forests surrounding the city of Antwerp...
But to go back in to the middle class, what did you wanna proof showing Brazilian upper class next to Belgian middle class? Ofcourse the houses are bigger...

This is Brazilian middle class:


















http://img1.photographersdirect.com/img/2293/wm/pd1950933.jpg

That's something differend than you posted...


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## Maria Theresa (Jul 1, 2005)

joshsam said:


> These in particular are in the forests surrounding the city of Antwerp...
> But to go back in to the middle class, what did you wanna proof showing Brazilian upper class next to Belgian middle class? Ofcourse the houses are bigger...
> 
> This is Brazilian middle class:
> ...


No, those pics you posted are of housing projetcs built by the government of Lula for the lower classes, called "Minha casa, Minha vida" , something like "My house, My life".

They can be for lower middle class as well.


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## Maria Theresa (Jul 1, 2005)

joshsam said:


> ^^Uhum the houses I posted are middle class. I can post much much bigger houses if you want....
> 
> You don't have to post upper class houses from Brazil and compaire em with Belgian middle class, that's just stupid. Post middle class Brazilian housing to compaire...
> And yes Belgian houses might be smaller because it like 10x more expensive to build here than in Brazil....
> ...


Some middle class housing in Curitiba:

Pics by forumer ABNeto. Link: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1208083&page=4





































They look pretty decent to me.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^ They look ok 

Well the housing projects are way better than favella's....


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## Sniper (Jan 28, 2003)

joshsam said:


> ^^ They look ok
> 
> Well the housing projects are way better than favella's....


Less than 10% of brazilians live in favelas, and they don't represent the typical middle-class.

About the Brazilian Dream, living in a well-located apartment is not a trend today among upper classes. People just want to live the American Dream too. Today, I believe that new suburban projects compete equally to new high-rise projects. Basically, the increase of car use and the deterioration of the cities' central districts might expel people from the dense parts of the biggest cities. Furthermore, the cities are not growing as fast as they grew in the 80's, when high-rises were a need. The cities couldn't be expanded horizontally, because neither public transport nor individual transport (and including the related infrastructure) were avaliable.

_"A brazilian lives in an apartament because it's safer". _This idea is outdated. Today, suburban condos are as safe as high-rises, because they usually are closed and protected by security personnel, cameras, etc. And if they're not closed to external access, all this stuff is set individually. IMO security is the difference between the American (Belgian) Dream and these new "planned neighborhoods" to upper mid-class brazilian citzens. And that's sad, they're even more closed to the external world and away from the city than the american and belgian counterparts.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^ I read somewhere favella population today is about 26%, coming from over 30% before 2000....

BTW: 97% of Rio’s favelas houses have TV, 94% have refrigerator, 59% DVD player, 55% mobile phone, 48% washing machine and 12% have a computer, not bad for a favella...

But this is all off topic...


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## Maria Theresa (Jul 1, 2005)

joshsam said:


> ^^ I read somewhere favella population today is about 26%, coming from over 30% before 2000....
> 
> BTW: 97% of Rio’s favelas houses have TV, 94% have refrigerator, 59% DVD player, 55% mobile phone, 48% washing machine and 12% have a computer, not bad for a favella...
> 
> But this is all off topic...


 Funny to see that europeans always imagine Brazil being much worse than it actually is.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

We don't....
You Brazilians see it better....


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## Maria Theresa (Jul 1, 2005)

joshsam said:


> We don't....
> You Brazilians see it better....


Do we?

Because what I see here is this:

(pictures by forumer Marcio Machado, link http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=992747&highlight=rio)














































Wouldn´t change those suburbs above, in Rio, for any of those in Belgium, including the upper class ones.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Stop spamming this tread with stupid pictures of Brazilians villa's while you know as good as I do that the majority of Brazil people still live in shit tiny houses that are build without a proper sewer and don't have a garden exept for the half-paved street in front of it.
5% of the total area of Brazil cities look like the pictures you post! Do you think I'm stupid?

Go on and and believe anything you want about your country and please stop spamming a tread that goes about "the Belgian Dream" and not "Villa's in Brazil"


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## GENIUS LOCI (Nov 18, 2004)

Can I suggest to open an 'own thread' with Brazilian hosing as topic?

Here we are OT


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## Yuri S Andrade (Sep 29, 2008)

joshsam said:


> ^^ I read somewhere favella population today is about 26%, coming from over 30% before 2000....
> 
> BTW: 97% of Rio’s favelas houses have TV, 94% have refrigerator, 59% DVD player, 55% mobile phone, 48% washing machine and 12% have a computer, not bad for a favella...
> 
> But this is all off topic...


That's the Rio's figures. In São Paulo metro area, it's lower than 10%. The mid-sized cities (500k - 1 million) of São Paulo state and southern Brazil states, there are no favelas at all.




joshsam said:


> Stop spamming this tread with stupid pictures of Brazilians villa's while you know as good as I do that the majority of Brazil people still live in shit tiny houses that are build without a proper sewer and don't have a garden exept for the half-paved street in front of it.
> 5% of the total area of Brazil cities look like the pictures you post! Do you think I'm stupid?
> 
> Go on and and believe anything you want about your country and please stop spamming a tread that goes about "the Belgian Dream" and not "Villa's in Brazil"


Well, I must say Maria Theresa behaviour is quite bizarre to say the least. 

But, calm down: majority of Brazil people do NOT live in shit tiny houses. Proper sewer? In my state (11 million people), for example, virtually 100% of the houses get sewer.

This kind of generalization, is fool as to suggest all Belgians live in houses like the Brugge old district ones. We are part of this huge urbanism forum, so I think it's a nice idea to abandon these misconceptions. Brazil is not this fantasy place created by Mary T, but it's not this hell painted by you.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^ In Londrina there aren't any favella's indeed, but vast majority of the houses do look tiny, from air and from pictures taken on the street, they have 50% of time no garden are build super close together (even your Londrina) Exept for the small area's where houses are suddenly big and have a swimming pool.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

Maria Theresa said:


> Do we?
> 
> Because what I see here is this:


:lol: I think you just proved Josham's point for him, if those images are all that you see, then you certainly do have a very blinkered view and you do see Brazil in a way that is not realistic.

Brazil is a great country, why try to ruin its reputation by seeming to confirm the predjudices held by the rest of the world about the upper class elites there being Marie Antoinette wannabes detached from reality?


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## The Cake On BBQ (May 10, 2010)

Can we have some more Belgian suburban house pics taken from street level? I like Belgian suburban architecture


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## Yuri S Andrade (Sep 29, 2008)

joshsam said:


> ^^ In Londrina there aren't any favella's indeed, but vast majority of the houses do look tiny, from air and from pictures taken on the street, they have 50% of time no garden are build super close together (even your Londrina) Exept for the small area's where houses are suddenly big and have a swimming pool.


The vast majority of the houses are not tiny. At least not tiny as the European counterparts. And even European suburbs don't get so much space, the American ones are at least 4 times bigger. That's only a matter of urban development, and not wealthy or poverty.

There are huge sections of the city (the whole west, after the buildings; south the other side of the lakes; east on the way between Downtown and airport) where almost half of the houses get swimming pool (and Londrina isn't a hot city for Brazilian standards; we get a long and relatively cold winter). And the lower-classes part (the whole north, the other sections of east, the west near the border with Cambé looks decent to me. Look around on GE, Aug 2006, without clouds.

About the vertical areas, it's all middle class and upper-middle class. Here, we don't have vertical slums like Chicago or Paris ones.

I know Brazil has huge regional disparities, and the South reality is not the same as Northeast. Even though Brazil is not Mary T's paradise but it's not the Rio's bad cliche. I think we are mature enough to acknowledge this.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

The Cake On BBQ said:


> Can we have some more Belgian suburban house pics taken from street level? I like Belgian suburban architecture


It's quite hard because there is no street level in Belgium yet. I made some pictures of my neighbourhood several months ago I'll post em here..
If I have time tomorow I shall make some more of other neighbourhoods too...


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

*I was biking and it was raining so excuse me for the poor quality *


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^ The house in the fourth pic is where I live. A middle class home build in 1998.


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## Yuri S Andrade (Sep 29, 2008)

^^
You get a quite green frontyard, but your neighbours on the first 3 pictures, don't. What are this stones on the sidewalk all about?

Nice pics!


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Yuri S Andrade said:


> ^^
> You get a quite green frontyard, but your neighbours on the first 3 pictures, don't. What are this stones on the sidewalk all about?
> 
> Nice pics!


It's not comon in Belgium that the community provides sidewalks in suburbs, they won't be used anyway...But still the first two meters is property of the community. That's why people trow grind on them because when something needs to be fixed on the water or gas or sewage...your front yard is all messed up...

It also not common in Belgium to make you're front yard look good. It was a very dry period before the pictures where taken and people are lasy so don't feel like watering their grass . But our front yard got replanted in spring


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## Mike____ (Mar 15, 2009)

nice pictures joshsam!


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

thx mike


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## kostya (Apr 13, 2004)

Interesting. Never thought that people in Belgium like that kind of housing so much  . I guess, if not too spread, it's ok to live in suburbia :dunno:


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^ Well de difference is that suburbia in Belgium around cities are grown around small villages and then got conurbated with the City. So they all have their own small center with little shops and cafés and so on...
You could compare it to the suburbs in England only that ours are not planned that well


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

For those who are intrested. I study geography and our course of Belgian city geography explains it like this:

(The black lines are main roads)

In the middleages towns and cities grew bigger. Most of the time there was one bigger city where a lot of smaller villages and towns depended on. (= red)










Then , untill in almost half of the 20th century, the cities and towns gradually expanded. (=blue)










In the second half of the 20th century( afther WWII) cities began to exapand more rappidly and people became much wealtier and suburbs began to form untill now. (=green)










What's left is a conurbation of several towns, villages and cities. That's also why you can still find open area's close to city centers...Something that is absolutely not in the case in the USA or anywhere else (correct me if I am wrong) than Europe for that matter...


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## The Cake On BBQ (May 10, 2010)

Awesome houses, thanks :cheers:


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## JPBrazil (Mar 12, 2007)

Jesus, I hate attention whores...


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## Chrissib (Feb 9, 2008)

joshsam said:


> What's left is a conurbation of several towns, villages and cities. That's also why you can still find open area's close to city centers...Something that is absolutely not in the case in the USA or anywhere else (correct me if I am wrong) than Europe for that matter...


In Germany there also was near to no planning in metropolitan areas. Suburbs grew very chaotic in Germany, maybe not as chaotic as in belgium, but if you compare them to France or Spain, you got a very mess.


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## dlbritnot (Apr 8, 2006)

Americans aren't the only ones raping the earth.


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## Chrissib (Feb 9, 2008)

dlbritnot said:


> Americans aren't the only ones raping the earth.


Who said that you rape the earth?:lol:


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## Dahlis (Aug 29, 2008)

joshsam said:


> *I was biking and it was raining so excuse me for the poor quality *


Those houses look nice, or at least they would if they didnt all look the same. How about some colour belgium? Maybe some wood or plaster? Why all brick?


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## Vovin (Jan 18, 2006)

This style of housing is prevalent in all of Belgium or just in Flanders?


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## gonzo (Jul 30, 2006)

I believe Belgium is among the most densely populated countries in the world, so this kind of development strikes me as a bit irresponsible.


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## Wimpie (Sep 20, 2010)

Indeed, it looks very American. Even from on the ground.


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

It's looks American somewhat, but more urban/dense.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

It looks pretty American (suburban), that means apart from the skyline it looks like a terrible place. One that no one would stay any second longer than he has to.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^Dude it's Antwerp. It has a great dense historical city center full of great architecture. Just check this thread: 
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=756508&page=18

Vienna must be horrible place to with it's outspread suburbs then


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## Mike____ (Mar 15, 2009)

Slartibartfas said:


> It looks pretty American (suburban), that means apart from the skyline it looks like a terrible place. One that no one would stay any second longer than he has to.


ignorance..


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## De Klauw (Apr 20, 2006)

I can understand why. There nothing pretty on a highway full of shops. Boom (the place name) IS ugly.


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

Slartibartfas said:


> It looks pretty American (suburban), that means apart from the skyline it looks like a terrible place. One that no one would stay any second longer than he has to.


Look on Bing maps. The area along A12 motorway near Antwerp is more urban than the pictures depict except for industrial areas.


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## taboe (Jan 30, 2007)

Slartibartfas said:


> It looks pretty American (suburban), that means apart from the skyline it looks like a terrible place. One that no one would stay any second longer than he has to.


But strangely enough, Antwerp gets 1.5 million overnight visitors a year... They must all be Americans!


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## Wapper (Feb 24, 2011)

joshsam said:


> ^^Dude it's Antwerp. It has a great dense historical city center full of great architecture. Just check this thread:
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=756508&page=18
> 
> Vienna must be horrible place to with it's outspread suburbs then


Well, the Vienna suburbs do not resemble the a12 area in any way. I think they do indeed look a lot better. 
But it's just not comparable. Vienna is more the classic example of a city that has grown from the centre and has expanded outwards. Antwerp has of course evolved in a similar way, but in addition it has also seen growth from the outside. The surrounding villages and towns have grown a great deal and have merged. The result is that these areas feel very urban, but do not completely really seem to belong to the city.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

joshsam said:


> ^^Dude it's Antwerp. It has a great dense historical city center full of great architecture. Just check this thread:
> http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=756508&page=18
> 
> Vienna must be horrible place to with it's outspread suburbs then


I was not talking about the centre which looks great from what I've seen. I commented specifically on that area you can see in the picture above in the forefront.

Vienna has suburbs, but I can't see how it should have a lot of them, especially for its size. Major suburban areas are mostly limited to the south of Vienna. Of course "Transdanubia" which is still part of Vienna looks partially suburban as well and has not so nice corners as well.


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## Amanda Griffin (Jun 21, 2011)

wow look at all that greenery!!!


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## Wimpie (Sep 20, 2010)

Some pictures, taken on the 10th of October 2010


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^Nice pics! Didn't notice them!


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## Seabiscuit (Mar 18, 2006)

I really do want to go to Belgium someday. Ya know, I was very close of visiting there last year. The closest place to Belgium was when I stopped by at Rosendaal, NL for a few minutes. Yeah, I was minutes away from Belgium. Oh well.  

Anyways, the houses looks really nice! When I looked at the pictures, the neighboorhoods resembles more like the ones in Canada and perhaps, the east coast here in the US. How much are those homes worth over there? It seems like that there's a real estate boom there; that's a good thing


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^Houses in those pictures probably are between €200.000 and €300.000. That what and average Belgian can pay for. The older houses you (rowhomes and such) probably have a bigger difference in price according to how well they have been maintained and have been modernised over the years...

I would'nt call it a real estate boom. It's just normal progress of building new homes and streets like everywhere... Belgium still builds new suburban area's USA style unlike many other EU countries.


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## Seabiscuit (Mar 18, 2006)

joshsam said:


> ^^Houses in those pictures probably are between €200.000 and €300.000. That what and average Belgian can pay for. The older houses you (rowhomes and such) probably have a bigger difference in price according to how well they have been maintained and have been modernised over the years...
> 
> I would'nt call it a real estate boom. It's just normal progress of building new homes and streets like everywhere... Belgium still builds new suburban area's USA style unlike many other EU countries.


Thanks for the info, dude! Yeah, the prices/valuations are quite what I am expecting in these Belgian homes. Say what about condos and lofts? Are they any comparable in price? 

I'm curious, are interest rates for mortgages comparable to our interest rates (for 15 years & 30 years mortgages) here in the US? How does it work over there, if you want to get a home? I was told that Europeans (in general) tends to rent a place vs. owning one (which is kinda of a big deal here....well, not so much as it was before the real estate boom). But anyways, it's quite interesting that a European nation like Belgium can build American suburban-style homes at a large scale, like what you just described to me. By the way, can you find these type of homes at or near a beach in Belgium? Thanks again for the insightful info!


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## Thermo (Oct 25, 2005)

Seabiscuit said:


> By the way, can you find these type of homes at or near a beach in Belgium? Thanks again for the insightful info!


You can see some examples of housing nearby/on the Belgian coast in this thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1200625

Near the beach you can easily find these types of homes, but on the beach it's (unfortunately) mostly apartment buildings.


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## Seabiscuit (Mar 18, 2006)

Thermo said:


> You can see some examples of housing nearby/on the Belgian coast in this thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1200625
> 
> Near the beach you can easily find these types of homes, but on the beach it's (unfortunately) mostly apartment buildings.


Thanks Thermo! The pictures were amazing! I love the beach!  I never knew that coastal cities in Belgium can be so beautiful! I hate to say this, part of me wished that I didn't go to the Netherlands. I deeply regretted not going to Belgium last year. Oh well.  At any rate, I'll definitely put Belgium on my next travel itinerary.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^Just make sure you don't only stay in Brussels because Brussels does not represent Belgium


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## eland (Aug 29, 2009)

For the people who wonder how the houses in these 'American' streets or verkavelingen look like.
I made a tour through my village and I made some pictures of (remarkable) houses.

















Two houses from the 50's- 60's.









A more modern style.
























The two houses above are more classical, a bit cottage-like.









This are two houses in pastorie-style.








A view at the street.
























Two houses in Spanish style.









A house that seems a little bit Californian to me.









This is an example of an old farm, wich was restored during the first half of the 20th century. These houses are becoming more and more rare.









A house from the 60's.








A neighbourhood from the 60's- 70's I believe.

























Three fermette houses with,especially the second some renaissance elements like the trap-gevels.

































This house always seemed a little Suisse to me. 

















A house build like a traditional farm in Flanders.
















A house completely covered with wooden plates.


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## goschio (Dec 2, 2002)

^
The houses look very european. Probably the stuff you see everywhere in suburban north-western Europe.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^The difference is that in Belgium it's still pretty easy to build such homes, and one can achieve it pretty early in life with a middle class income.


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## GZT (May 17, 2010)

>


This one looks great, I want one!


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## snowland (Aug 20, 2011)

Beautiful houses. Loved it.

Wanna live here:










In Argentina, we have a lot of those suburbs, specially the new countries, but obviously we don't have this urbanism. And this architecture is very belgian and dutch as I can see.

PD:









Specially this one remided me a lot of northern Spain.


AWESOME! Belgium is such a great country.


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## eland (Aug 29, 2009)

snowland said:


> In Argentina, we have a lot of those suburbs, specially the new countries, but obviously we don't have this urbanism. And this architecture is very belgian and dutch as I can see.


Argentina has a lot of people who originate from western european countries. I've seen pictures of German and Welsh like villages in Argentina.
Or those very common? And if not with what country can you compare an Argentinean village or city?


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## snowland (Aug 20, 2011)

Yup, we got massive welsh inmigration to Chubut and northern-eastern european to Misiones, Corrientes, Santa Fe and Entre Ríos provinces. We also have a lot of german villages specially in Central Argentina. But our biggest influence is italian, then spanish and then french. Otherwise I didn´t mention that. I compared this with the lately suburbs, sprawls or not - even in Ushuaia we have. Some could be in North America or Europe. I can show you photos later if you want. Hope it got clear. Greets.


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## eland (Aug 29, 2009)

snowland said:


> Yup, we got massive welsh inmigration to Chubut and northern-eastern european to Misiones, Corrientes, Santa Fe and Entre Ríos provinces. We also have a lot of german villages specially in Central Argentina. But our biggest influence is italian, then spanish and then french. Otherwise I didn´t mention that. I compared this with the lately suburbs, sprawls or not - even in Ushuaia we have. Some could be in North America or Europe. I can show you photos later if you want. Hope it got clear. Greets.


That would be great, I always had a special interest in Argentina and it's European influences.
But maybe there should be a new thread for it.


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## rd77 (Nov 23, 2007)

For Dutch people, Belgium is a fascinating country. The Netherlands is TOO regulated, leading to an endless amount of rowhouses and "Vinex" suburbs (ghetto's of the future), while Belgium is on the other end of the spectrum.
I do agree that some of the urban parts of Flanders (surrounding the motorways especially) are about the closest you can get to a USA-style urban landscape in Europe. 

Regarding the housing: my follow Dutchmen will usually criticize the styling of Belgian houses (tacky, ugly, blablah) and then grudgingly admit that they would prefer a Belgian house over their own crappy Vinex neighbourhood ;-)


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

rd77 said:


> For Dutch people, Belgium is a fascinating country. The Netherlands is TOO regulated, leading to an endless amount of rowhouses and "Vinex" suburbs (ghetto's of the future), while Belgium is on the other end of the spectrum.


The Vinex are not in their way to become ghetto's at all. Areas built in the 1970s with many high-rises area, if they aren't already. Maybe a couple Vinex are problematic due to the population they attract, but overall a Vinex will have above-average income, above-average Dutch-nationality holders, above-average education (the difference is as high as 2,7 extra education years in average), much higher share of family with minor children and lower share of unable to speak Dutch/Dutch as a second language households than the country as a whole. Or as least this is why I heard on a seminary on real estate economics last May here in Tilburg.



> Regarding the housing: my follow Dutchmen will usually criticize the styling of Belgian houses (tacky, ugly, blablah) and then grudgingly admit that they would prefer a Belgian house over their own crappy Vinex neighbourhood ;-)


The problem with the Netherlands is the lack of areas for self-building, e.g., plots of empty land where you can have relatively freedom to build. The second problem, but one much more hard to overcome even if you have money to buy/build, is the almost impossibility to build "in the wild", e.g., in agricultural land. The legal process for a farm property to be dismembered and divided in a handful of semi-rural estates, something common in Belgium, is insurmountable in Netherlands and requires a formal zoning modification that in turn requires dozens of meetings, council hearing etc.


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## rd77 (Nov 23, 2007)

Suburbanist said:


> The Vinex are not in their way to become ghetto's at all. Areas built in the 1970s with many high-rises area, if they aren't already. Maybe a couple Vinex are problematic due to the population they attract, but overall a Vinex will have above-average income, above-average Dutch-nationality holders, above-average education (the difference is as high as 2,7 extra education years in average), much higher share of family with minor children and lower share of unable to speak Dutch/Dutch as a second language households than the country as a whole. Or as least this is why I heard on a seminary on real estate economics last May here in Tilburg.
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with the Netherlands is the lack of areas for self-building, e.g., plots of empty land where you can have relatively freedom to build. The second problem, but one much more hard to overcome even if you have money to buy/build, is the almost impossibility to build "in the wild", e.g., in agricultural land. The legal process for a farm property to be dismembered and divided in a handful of semi-rural estates, something common in Belgium, is insurmountable in Netherlands and requires a formal zoning modification that in turn requires dozens of meetings, council hearing etc.


I do agree that definitely not all Vinex areas are doomed. I was thinking of parts of Ypenburg (near The Hague) and Leidsche Rijn (near Utrecht). Problem here is the population make-up indeed. Ypenburg contains lots of white trash from the old deprived city areas of The Hague, and it has a lot of bored youngsters all growing up at the same time, so you will see a lot of youth loitering already.

The problems in some parts of Leidsche Rijn are similar, but are worsened by forced mixing of council housing and private housing. You get things like a double-income gay couple being so harassed by unemployed Moroccan youths from across the street that the former are forced to leave, for their own safety. That kind of thing.

Regarding the space issue: I do realise that. It's just a pity sometimes. I was surprised to find out that the population densities of the Netherlands and Belgium aren't that far apart actually:

NL: 401.4/km2
BE: 355.1/km2

Source: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijst_van_landen_naar_bevolkingsdichtheid


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^The population density in Flanders alone is 462/km2.(and I bet if you guys left friesland out your numbers they would be even higher) Still nearly half of the homes there are build like showed in these pictures. I made some new pictures today,I will post them within an hour or so.

In my new pictures you will see new development that resembles the Dutch vinex suburbs, because also in Flanders there are more an more rules for what and where to be build and prices are climbing higher so there are an increasing number of people that can not afford the type of housing showed here before.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

In the meanwhile I want to show something else in Belgium
I recently made some pictures of housing projects during the 60ties-80ties when there was a population boom and lot's of people needed payable homes very vast. That resulted in lots of social housing in those days and here are some pics of how those housing project look like today.

You will now understand why people in Belgium think vinex resembles social housing projects.
It's true that in Belgium if you come across this type of housing, the people living inside them are upper lower class and lower middle class. The porest people generally live inside city centers.


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## Pablo Diablo (Nov 21, 2009)

joshsam said:


> ^^The population density in Flanders alone is 462/km2.(and I bet if you guys left friesland out your numbers they would be even higher) Still nearly half of the homes there are build like showed in these pictures.* I made some new pictures today,I will post them within an hour or so.*
> 
> In my new pictures you will see new development that resembles the Dutch vinex suburbs, because also in Flanders there are more an more rules for what and where to be build and prices are climbing higher so there are an increasing number of people that can not afford the type of housing showed here before.


Thanks - I'm really enjoying these photos 

I visited Brussels a few weeks ago. On the train ride in (from NL), you can clearly see these types of houses all over Flanders. They look great.

In the UK, we have a similar situation to the Netherlands - it's very difficult to just buy a plot of land and build a house. First, it's very difficult to actually find a decent sized plot for sale and then you have to spend months (sometimes years) getting permission from the authorities to build (a lot of bureaucracy, endless council meetings etc). Most modern houses here tend to be built by a private development company buying a big plot of land and building a self-contained estate (usually one road in and then lots of cul-de-sac roads branching off). The houses are almost always tiny and very close together and they all tend to look the same.
I would never live in a modern British house hno:


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^But i've seen many pics showing great Uk suburbs to, but maybe those are only for the rich? Well Belgium is changing it's type of housing to because building grounds are becoming scarce. I think within 10-20 years from now, Belgium will be building the same kind of suburbs like UK or The Netherlands. That is if the population keeps growing ofcourse...


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Like I said in my previous post, Belgium is also changing the way it builds new developments. There are still lots of new individual homes being build but because of rising prices homes like these are getting build more and more frequent. I can't say I don't like them but I wouldn't want to live in them. They are very small compaired to what I am used to but they are still larger then the Ducth ones...


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

The typical Belgian homes:
















































New individual homes being build:


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Lets go on with the next pics:


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)




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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)




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## Pablo Diablo (Nov 21, 2009)

joshsam said:


> ^^But i've seen many pics showing great Uk suburbs to, but maybe those are only for the rich? Well Belgium is changing it's type of housing to because building grounds are becoming scarce. I think within 10-20 years from now, Belgium will be building the same kind of suburbs like UK or The Netherlands. That is if the population keeps growing ofcourse...


An example of a standard modern British development in Liverpool would be the Fir Tree estate. http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll=53.450724,-2.882495&spn=0.007296,0.027466&z=16&vpsrc=6

All the houses are built on the "branch" roads. This results in very poor connectivity. The entire estate feels like a self-contained village that's isolated from the rest of the city. The houses themselves are actually not bad, they were built in the 1980s and it'd cost around around £175,000 (€200,000) for a 4 bedroom house. But I think they're too small and cramped - British houses are among the smallest in Europe.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^I also hate the cul de sac thing, but what can I way, The belgium way isn't much better. Houses are everywhere and small cul-de-sac like developments(we call them verkavelingen) of 5-10 streets big are scattered throughout the landscape and between those endless lines of ribbon development.


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

^^ When calculating the population density of Netherlands, one have to account to the fact 23% of what is usually counted as "surface" are actually bodies of water. But, again, one can always trickle down stats, so better to compare country-to-country densities.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^That's indeed a lot more than Belgium (6.4%)


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

joshsam said:


> ^^I also hate the cul de sac thing, but what can I way, The belgium way isn't much better. Houses are everywhere and small cul-de-sac like developments(we call them verkavelingen) of 5-10 streets big are scattered throughout the landscape and between those endless lines of ribbon development.


Cul-de-sac has its advantages and disadvantages. You can avoid their major downside - lack of pedestrian connectivity - by having pedestrians passages that link them with other streets but do not allow any vehicle traffic of any kind (bicycles forbidden as well).


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^Just walkways straight across them? I think most of them have that no?

I'm a fan of subruban living in many ways, but not of the cul-de-sac type, because they are most of the time badly connected with public transportation.


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## snowland (Aug 20, 2011)

eland said:


> That would be great, I always had a special interest in Argentina and it's European influences.
> But maybe there should be a new thread for it.


I'm thinking on doing that. I'm glad you like our country. 

Best regards.
PD: Here we have some countries - kind of gate condominium - that are in the cul-de-sac type. For an example, Hudson, in the Greater Buenos Aires.

Want more photos!


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Going to revive this thread soon with new pics of Belgian middle class homes 

With might be intereasting:

near moscow they are gonna build 'Belgia'. It should become a replica of the typical Belgian styled suburban village.









http://www.thingsmagazine.net/blogimages/belgia.jpg

Here is the site and you can look at the differend types of freestanding homes. I must say they look very tacky though hno:

http://www.belgia.ru/


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Today I needed to use public transport because my car broke down and needed repair. So i had to walk around a mile to get from my current working place to the busstop. The pictures are take in a tipical Belgian suburban 'roadvillage' along a tertiary road that connects it to the city center of Sint-Truiden.

The quality is bad because I used my cellphone.....



Editing....

Ok srr folks photobucket is giving me problems. I rotated all the immages en resized them but photobucket doesn't seem to save the stats so maybe I'll try again within an hour....


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Problem still remains...stupid photobucket...


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## musiccity (Jan 5, 2011)

Belgium is so cute 


Cool thread kay:


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## Madelinemars (Nov 18, 2011)

wow.. it is totally my dream house, the construction plan is very well, green around the house..


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

The problem got solved:

Here are the pics:










3 new houses in one block. Due to rising prices you will see this type of standard housing more and more...










Pre-war suburban home:









































































This home probably dates back from the 60ties:


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

New semi-detached homes being build. notes how they differend in height. Tt tells you they have two differend owners and are build individual.










These homes must be 40-50 years old I think:


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

This house probably more upperclass then middle...









more middle class homes:


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Next I walked closer towards the city center of Sint-Truiden. I'm still some 3-4 miles from it but these homes are also middleclass and some lower middle class. You'll notice to lower middle class when the houses aren't kept very well. These homes dates back from the 50ties and 60ties I think.
































































The tertiary road I was walking on between the suburban road village and the city center:










The busstop I was walking to:










Map showing the differend buslines departing from the city center.










Plate showing the differend lines that pass through this village










Frequenty of the buslines. Left column shows the frequenty on normal working days. The middle one of non-school days but still working days. And right is sundays and national holidays.


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## snowland (Aug 20, 2011)

Lovely pics.


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## woutero (Jan 14, 2008)

Google Streetview has launched in Belgium today, so you can all check out the Belgian dream on your own.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

^^yep I noticed. No need for these pics any longer...


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## Manneken3000 (Nov 23, 2011)

In 50 years, the changes look to be only 2 years. Still looks very grey.


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## sebvill (Apr 13, 2005)

I dont like it. Ive pass through Belgium several times (im actually been in Lille for three months now) and it always seems to me as a very boring landscape. If I was Belgian I would live in central Brussels for sure.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Do Belgians not want large front lawns or are lots generally too small to allow it?


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## NoveProspekt (Aug 22, 2012)

isaidso said:


> Do Belgians not want large front lawns or are lots generally too small to allow it?


Front lawns are small/rare. They're almost always at the back of the house. Safer for the kids, too. But it also depends on the area.. rural suburb or right outside a city, etc.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

I've never really seen the point of large front lawns. I'd rather just a small area dividing house from street and shift the extra space to the rear where it will probably get used more.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Jonesy55 said:


> I've never really seen the point of large front lawns. I'd rather just a small area dividing house from street and shift the extra space to the rear where it will probably get used more.


It's mainly for aesthetics, to give people a feeling of living in a park, and so that one doesn't live right next to the road. I suppose lot sizes are small in Europe, so it's not possible to have a big green area on all 4 sides.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

isaidso said:


> It's mainly for aesthetics, to give people a feeling of living in a park, and so that one doesn't live right next to the road. I suppose lot sizes are small in Europe, so it's not possible to have a big green area on all 4 sides.


It depends where you are really, in rural or village settings and many suburbs you often have quite large front lawns here, though on planned suburban developments the sides are usually close to the next property even if the front lawn is quite big. But to me they just seem like an extra chore to mow and maintain for no benefit, people rarely seem to use them for anything, they tend to sit out, play and eat etc at the rear of the house.

Personally I don't mind the front door being close to the sidewalk at all, it makes it easier to bump into people and interact socially with neighbours and people walking past. That's on a fairly quiet residential street of course, being close to the street like that on a busy arterial road with constant traffic wouldn't be pleasant.

The more central and closer to facilities you are of course the smaller plot sizes for a given price tend to be. I'm on a very tight plot with only around 150cm from front door to pavement and a small 12mx5m rear garden, but very easily walkable to shops, restaurants, theatres, rail station etc. If I wanted to move a little bit further out then for a similar price (a bit cheaper in fact) I could have a generic boxy house with lawns on three sides like this one.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-23661267.html

You pay your money you take your choice I guess!


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## NoveProspekt (Aug 22, 2012)

One more.. From Kiewiet to Kuringen Heide, right outside of Hasselt.

And look, some of those houses even have front lawns 






I'll upload some more tomorrow.

Keep in mind that Limburg is the poorest Flemish province and more rural than most. You won't find lots of large & fancy architecture here. Hasselt, the capital and largest city of Limburg, only has around 75,000 souls. We're basically hicks.

@ 1:11 the field to my left is where Pukkelpop is held. One of Belgium's (and Europe's) largest music festivals.


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## NoveProspekt (Aug 22, 2012)

1 more Kiewiet, starting at Pukkelpop:


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Jonesy55 said:


> You pay your money you take your choice I guess!


That pretty much sums it up. I find most people in suburbia here live in complete isolation from other people and many want it like that. The only time they see other people is at work or the mall.


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## isaidso (Mar 21, 2007)

Jonesy55 said:


> You pay your money you take your choice I guess!


That pretty much sums it up. I find most people in suburbia here live in complete isolation from other people and many want it like that. The only time they see other people is at work or the mall. They certainly never walk to the store; it's a lifewstyle that's 100% car dependent.

Some of the newer suburbs make an attempt to encourage pedestrian activity with smaller plots and clusters of shops close by, but I'm not sure if they're successful as I've never seen one in person.


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## BE0GRAD (May 29, 2010)

isaidso said:


> That pretty much sums it up. I find most people in suburbia here live in complete isolation from other people and many want it like that. The only time they see other people is at work or the mall. They certainly never walk to the store; it's a lifewstyle that's 100% car dependent.
> 
> Some of the newer suburbs make an attempt to encourage pedestrian activity with smaller plots and clusters of shops close by, but I'm not sure if they're successful as I've never seen one in person.


In my neighborhood (largest illegal settlement in Europe, some claim  ) ,car activity is very much discouraged by narrow roads and lack of parking space so the only option is going on foot or PT.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

Why illegal?


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## BE0GRAD (May 29, 2010)

Built without permit.


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## NoveProspekt (Aug 22, 2012)

From (a bit of Kuringen to) Stevoort to the outskirts of Hasselt






First you see some lower income housing, then some rural houses (and a bit of boring landscape.. for nice scenery with rolling hills and little castles I have to go Haspengouw in the south of Limburg), and from 4:46 to 5:30 is mostly social housing. After that I'm entering Stevoort town centre and then on to the outskirts of Hasselt, ending at the outer ring road.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

NoveProspekt said:


> 1 more Kiewiet, starting at Pukkelpop:


 Great video's  shows a lot more than pics


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## alexandru.mircea (May 18, 2011)

Nice. Debatable planning, but plenty of delightful suburban architecture. Looks a lot like the Romanian dream, only well done and with much, much better architecture (the Romanian dream is more of a nightmare, heh). Anyway, whenever you run out of land, you can come to France - plenty of land here.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

alexandru.mircea said:


> Nice. Debatable planning, but plenty of delightful suburban architecture. Looks a lot like the Romanian dream, only well done and with much, much better architecture (the Romanian dream is more of a nightmare, heh). Anyway, whenever you run out of land, you can come to France - plenty of land here.


It's the worst planning in Western Europe by far, and the only reason why Belgians still can afford to build these type of houses... Otherwise it would have been much more like The Netherlands considdering our population density.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

Driving in the burbs


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## Godius (Aug 31, 2011)

NoveProspekt said:


> One more.. From Kiewiet to Kuringen Heide, right outside of Hasselt.
> 
> And look, some of those houses even have front lawns
> 
> ...



Total chaos!!!!


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## NoveProspekt (Aug 22, 2012)

Godius said:


> Total chaos!!!!


hoezo?


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## NoveProspekt (Aug 22, 2012)

crappy camera, dirty windshield & low sun, so at times the image quality gets really bad..


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