# Cars you want to see (more of) in your country.



## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

zaphod said:


> ^You'd think with all the small farms, large pickups would be sold in the Netherlands.
> .


They are a rare sight. Small trucks (6-ton) are common though. But for all purposes they are commercial vehicles, not big private "cars".


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

Opels and Citroens. The VW Scirocco. Utes. Australian cars. The Toyota Hilux (the Tacoma wasn't what Top Gear tried so hard to destroy.) More cheap compact pickups and more body-on-frame truck-like SUVs. More part-time 4WD instead of AWD.

More rear wheel drive. More diesel. And most importantly, more station wagons. Preferably, all these last three in the same car.


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## xrtn2 (Jan 12, 2011)

All american cars :cheers::cheers:


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## Dahlis (Aug 29, 2008)

For sweden i would like to see more proper luxury cars (Rolls, Bentley etc.).And less japanese economy cars.


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## Mr_Dru (Dec 15, 2008)

I want to see more electric cars no Mather which brand.


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## Chilio (May 1, 2009)

I want to see more and more campers...

















...so the market gets oversaturated with them and they become really cheaper


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

Dahlis said:


> For sweden i would like to see more proper luxury cars (Rolls, Bentley etc.).And less japanese economy cars.


Part of what makes them luxury cars is that they're very rare, so the things they offer are actually luxurious. Far as I'm concerned, the only luxury cars (if you could call them that, being a cheap five-digit econobox) that interests me are the Mercedes E-class wagon and the Audi A7, because they aren't sedans.

For that matter, and more relevant to the thread, I'd like to see a lot more non-sedan cars because I genuinely do not understand the purpose of a sedan: What does a sedan do better than a wagon? What's it good for?


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## Dahlis (Aug 29, 2008)

nerdly_dood said:


> Part of what makes them luxury cars is that they're very rare, so the things they offer are actually luxurious. Far as I'm concerned, the only luxury cars (if you could call them that, being a cheap five-digit econobox) that interests me are the Mercedes E-class wagon and the Audi A7, because they aren't sedans.
> 
> For that matter, and more relevant to the thread, I'd like to see a lot more non-sedan cars because I genuinely do not understand the purpose of a sedan: What does a sedan do better than a wagon? What's it good for?


Mercedes E klasse is not a luxury car, we have plenty of them they are what you might consider "normal cars" used as taxis etc. I wouldent consider any Audi a luxury car an executive car perhaps but luxury is something else.

Sedans are better than wagons because they are more comfortable mainly insulation wise.


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## shree711 (Dec 12, 2011)

Dahlis said:


> Mercedes E klasse is not a luxury car, we have plenty of them they are what you might consider "normal cars" used as taxis etc. I wouldent consider any Audi a luxury car an executive car perhaps but luxury is something else.
> 
> Sedans are better than wagons because they are more comfortable mainly insulation wise.


That's just a German (and to some extent European perspective). Also in Hong Kong. I think that they are still considered luxury cars in most places.


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

Dahlis said:


> Mercedes E klasse is not a luxury car, we have plenty of them they are what you might consider "normal cars" used as taxis etc. I wouldent consider any Audi a luxury car an executive car perhaps but luxury is something else.
> 
> Sedans are better than wagons because they are more comfortable mainly insulation wise.


What are their retail prices, and how do they compare to, say, the Opel Insignia? In the United States, the E-class starts at a minimum $51,000 MSRP (Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price, which is usually about 5% higher than the actual negotiated sale price for most cars). The MB S-class starts at $92,350. The Audi A7 starts at $60,100; The Cadillac XTS starts at a minimum MSRP of $44,075; the Buick Lacrosse, a midsize sedan sold as a luxury car, and a good one at that, starts at a minimum $31,660 MSRP. The Volkswagen Passat, a modest midsize sedan, starts at $20,845; the Ford Focus starts at $16,200, and the Chevrolet Spark starts at $12,245. Judging by those numbers, I'd say the E-class is most certainly a luxury car.

Here's a meter I use to judge what a luxury car is or isn't: Is the E-class available without leather seats, i.e. cloth or cheap vinyl? No American with any sense of dignity would be caught dead in a Mercedes with cloth seats.

Also, my impression is that the VW Golf isn't thought of as a modest, cheap little hatchback in Europe, as it is in the US. Its prices in the US are minimum $17,995 for the base 2.5-liter 5-cylinder; $23,995 for the sporty GTI; $24,235 for the fuel-efficient 2.0-liter TDI diesel; and $33,990 for the red-hot Golf R.

Also I'm actually looking for an answer here - and don't give me any of that baloney about sound insulation, new cars are plenty quiet enough for anyone.


nerdly_dood said:


> For that matter, and more relevant to the thread, I'd like to see a lot more non-sedan cars because I genuinely do not understand the purpose of a sedan: What does a sedan do better than a wagon? What's it good for?


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## Halfpipesaur (Nov 17, 2010)

nerdly_dood said:


> Also, my impression is that the VW Golf isn't thought of as a modest, cheap little hatchback in Europe, as it is in the US. Its prices in the US are minimum $17,995 for the base 2.5-liter 5-cylinder; $23,995 for the sporty GTI; $24,235 for the fuel-efficient 2.0-liter TDI diesel; and $33,990 for the red-hot Golf R.


I like the fact that base Golf in Europe has engine half the size of US one (1.2) and 2.5 isn't even sold (2.0 is the biggest):nuts:

I would split cars into categories like that:
-Budget: Dacia, (formerly) Skoda, EU Chevrolet e.t.c
-Standard: VW, Opel, Ford, Honda...
-Premium: Mercedes, Audi, Volvo, Lexus...
-Luxury: everything that's hand made and costs hundreds thousands somethings


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## shree711 (Dec 12, 2011)

Halfpipesaur said:


> I like the fact that base Golf in Europe has engine half the size of US one (1.2) and 2.5 isn't even sold (2.0 is the biggest):nuts:
> 
> I would split cars into categories like that:
> -Budget: Dacia, (formerly) Skoda, EU Chevrolet e.t.c
> ...


Skoda and Dacia are not on the same level of being budget. Skoda has good cars such as the Superb.


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

Halfpipesaur said:


> I like the fact that base Golf in Europe has engine half the size of US one (1.2) and 2.5 isn't even sold (2.0 is the biggest):nuts:
> 
> I would split cars into categories like that:
> -Budget: Dacia, (formerly) Skoda, EU Chevrolet e.t.c
> ...


In that case, your category of Premium is roughly analogous to my version of Luxury, and for stuff like Bentleys and Rolls-Royces, they'd be categorized as "Damn, you rich ain't ya". 

We don't really have much distinction between your Budget and Standard categories - pretty much the only brand that I'd call a budget brand here is Suzuki, but that's only because its cars are all less than midsize; for each of their respective categories, their vehicles are just as well-equipped as one from another manufacturer, and similarly priced. The closest things in recent memory we've had that were meant as a budget brand were Geo, Saturn and Plymouth, but they have all been discontinued. Kia and Hyundai also used to be budget brands, but they've since vastly improved their vehicles (and increased their prices) so they now compete well with the likes of Ford and Toyota. So I guess the Budget and Standard categories are combined for us, and are comprised of... (gasp)

Chevrolet, Chrysler*, Dodge, Fiat, Ford, GMC, Honda, Hyundai, Jeep, Kia, Mazda, Mini*, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Ram, Scion, Smart, Subaru, Suzuki, Toyota, and Volkswagen.

* Chrysler and Mini are brands that are either making a very poor effort at being higher-end brands, or are... well that's about it really, their cars are just as (not) well-equipped as most other cars the same size, and they're not even priced significantly higher. I was amazed to find that the low- and mid-range Chrysler 200 trim levels don't even include leather seats. I'm guessing the new deal with Fiat will see Chrysler moved upmarket to compete with the likes of Buick and Lincoln.


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## kiteni (Oct 17, 2012)

in peru, I would like to see.

more electric cars
pagani zonda


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## Dahlis (Aug 29, 2008)

nerdly_dood said:


> What are their retail prices, and how do they compare to, say, the Opel Insignia?


Its not just about the price, its about the image and heritage of the brand. I dont think its possible to start a new luxury brand for example, Daimler failed with the Maybachs and that brand had a history.


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

Halfpipesaur said:


> I like the fact that base Golf in Europe has engine half the size of US one (1.2) and 2.5 isn't even sold (2.0 is the biggest):nuts:


Now that I think of it... I'm guessing that 2.0 you mention is a two-liter, naturally-aspirated four-cylinder, producing 115 horsepower? That's the base engine for our Jetta sedan, and let me give you a little quote from the Edmunds review on the Jetta:



> *Pros*
> 
> Spacious interior and trunk; smooth ride quality; fuel-efficient diesel TDI model.
> 
> ...


In other words, your top-level engine is our smallest and weakest.  The others available here are, in increasing order of cost for the lowest trim with each engine, 2.5-liter 5-cylinder, 170 hp; 2.0-liter turbo diesel, 140 hp (but with tons of torque and great fuel economy); 2.0-liter turbo gasoline, 200 hp.


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## Dahlis (Aug 29, 2008)

^^
The key in that quote is "automatic". You just shouldnt put automatics in small cars.


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

Dahlis said:


> ^^
> The key in that quote is "automatic". You just shouldnt put automatics in small cars.


You can't sell a car in the States without offering an automatic. Observe the punctuation in the original article - based on that and the "Driving Impressions" section at the end, I'm pretty sure it's just the engine they're talking about, regardless of the transmission.


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## Dahlis (Aug 29, 2008)

nerdly_dood said:


> You can't sell a car in the States without offering an automatic. Observe the punctuation in the original article - based on that and the "Driving Impressions" section at the end, I'm pretty sure it's just the engine they're talking about, regardless of the transmission.


It might be so, still automatics are for big barges not small sedans. You americans just need to learn how to drive.

Some european countries have car tax based on engine size my country (Sweden) does not. Thats the main reason for all these small engines.


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## Halfpipesaur (Nov 17, 2010)

Actually most powerful is Golf R (2 litre, turbo 270 HP). 115 HP would be a 1.4 TSI (they like to put turbochargers in everything lately). 

I guess that Jetta had a classic hydro-kinetic transmission. VW made a double-clutch automatic 'DSG' gearbox that is faster and more fuel efficient than traditional manual transmission. It is suitable for even the smallest cars.


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## Talbot (Jul 13, 2004)

I am most excited for the return of Alfa Romeo to the U.S.


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

Dahlis said:


> It might be so, still automatics are for big barges not small sedans. You americans just need to learn how to drive.


Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of manuals - I'm pretty much exlusively considering cars with manual transmissions; it's the only part of the new Fusion that redeems its lack of a wagon or hatch - but the American tendency is to drive like every car is a big barge, hence the necessity for transmissions that do all the fun stuff for you. 

Oh yeah and I'm definitely looking forward to Alfa Romeo.


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## Losbp (Nov 20, 2012)

I'd like to see more European cars here in Indonesia like Skoda and Lada. Japanese cars are now overwhelming my country right now


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## karticcc (Dec 4, 2012)

Chevrolet is my favorite car. see this.










camp wild dhauj


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## Britmex (Dec 16, 2011)

eusimcity4 said:


> In the USA, I would like to see...
> 
> 
> French cars
> ...



Hello!

Interesting thread.

I have your very same taste regarding cars.

If you want to find European cars in North America, you should visit Mexico, specially central and western states. Here we have French, Italian, German and British cars. Also you may find Brazilian small cars with European style.

Volkswagen is the third selling brand here and actually most of the Mexican lineup is not available in the US: the Brazilian made Gol, Polo, and the IV Jetta, known in Europe as Bora. Also some vans and trucks are sold here; Transporter, Eurovan, Crafter, Worker and the heavy Constellation. The remaining lineup is the same as the US, including the Golf.

FIAT sells here the 500 (locally made and exported to the US) together with the Palio Adventure, the Grande Punto and the Strada light truck. Other FIATs sold in the past include the Albea, Linea, Stilo and Bravo. The Ducato vans are manufactured and sold here too.

Alfa Romeo has a single dealership (with plans to expand) in Mexico City but they have been selling the Mito, Giulietta and 159 for less than a year. Alfas were sold by several importers since 2002. There is Brera near my home, which is a very rare car here.

Peugeot has been selling cars since 1997 and 206, 307, 207 and 308 are widely seen, specially in big cities where dealerships can be found. The French maker had a slump in sales due to poor reliability in the mid 2000´s but they are making a comeback. Most of the current lineup is the same as in France and include the new 508 saloon. The new 301 compact starts selling in one month. Commercial vehicles include the Partner, Expert and the bigger Boxer, here renamed Manager. 

Renault has an important share in Mexico among the small brands (they have the 8th place among almost 40 other) and its lineup include the small Sandero, better known as Dacia in Europe, the Fluence saloon and the big Safrane (Latitude in Europe). Renault sells also the Duster and Koleos crossovers as well as the Kangoo and Traffic vans. Past generation Clios, Meganes and Scenic are widely seen.

US manufacturers, GM and Ford have been importing or building European models since the late 90´s.

Ford: The 3rd generation Fiesta was introduced in 1998 and was a hit. Then came the next generation and it is still made locally as a low cost car, now renamed Ikon. Ford also sold the 2nd generation Mondeo and was a big hit. I had one of those and I really miss it..... The Focus was introduced in 1998 and has been a big seller since. The European Focus was introduced in 2006 and sold very well until its new global replacemente came in 2012. The superb ST was a big seller here and even some special edition RS were imported.
The current Fiesta is manfactured in Mexico and exported to the US.


General Motors imported the 2nd gen Opel Corsa in 1994 from Spain and renamed it simply Chevy, including the Chevrolet badges. The car was an instant hit and was revamped many times until its demise in 2011. It was Mexico´s most sold car for several years, and still much appreciated. GM also sold with much success the 2nd and 3rd generation Opel Astra and the Vectra. Meriva and Zafira minivans were also imported, together with the 3rd generation Opel Corsa (which had a curious Vauxhall grille).
Sadly, GM killed its European lineup and replaced it with the lackluster Korean, so called "GM Europe" models. 

Nissan, although a Japanese manufacturer, sold the Micra and Almera, both imported from Europe with great success. Its replacements nowadays are the sweet March and the disastrously styled Versa. 

Toyota imported the 1st gen Yaris from France and then decided to sell the 2nd gen Yaris in North America. Mexican versions (except for the horrible styled 4dr) are identical to its European brethren. The current Yaris has been selling slowly due to heavy competition from the Spanish made SEAT Ibiza.

VAG group SEAT has been very popular in Mexico since the Ibiza was imported in 2001. The current Ibiza has been selling very well. SEAT brought the rest of its European lineup (except the Arosa) including the weirdly styled 2nd gen Toledo. 

German premium brands sell the same lineup as in the US except for these models:

AUDI: A1. The 1st and 2nd gen A3 were not sold in the US too, but were very popular here.

BMW: 1 series hatchbacks. Also, in the late 90´s and early 2000´s the European M3 was sold here too.

Mercedes: The A Class mini was sold here and later replaced by the bigger and more expensive B Class. The new A Class has been introduced recently.
Also, the Vito, Viano and Sprinter vans are sold.

Compacts and superminis are quite popular here, specially in big cities.

Defunct brands SAAB and MG/Rover sold cars here too.


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

Dahlis said:


> Mercedes E klasse is not a luxury car, we have plenty of them they are what you might consider "normal cars" used as taxis etc. I wouldent consider any Audi a luxury car an executive car perhaps but luxury is something else.
> 
> Sedans are better than wagons because they are more comfortable mainly insulation wise.


The lowest trim level of the E-class that we get in the States is the E350 sedan, coupe, wagon or convertible, up to the E550 sedan, coupe or convertible, and the E63 AMG sedan. But in this UK-edition Top Gear magazine I've got, you supposedly get the E200, 220 and 250 in Britain, and I'd assume in mainland Europe as well... I'd guess those are roughly equivalent to a normal American full-size car in terms of amenities, which, while they are well-equipped, don't necessarily qualify as luxury cars. So I can see why you don't think of Mercedes as strictly a luxury brand.

The UK-spec CLS is sold as the CLS250, CLS350 and CLS63, but in the States it's the CLS550 and CLS63. Similarly, the lowest C-class we get is the C250 (although there are a handful of older C230 hatchbacks around, those sold very poorly) but in Britain they get the C180 in addition to our trim levels. And Britain gets the ML250 and 350, while we get the ML350, ML550 and ML63; they get the G350 and G63, we get the G550 and G63. And the CL-class is sold in Britain as the CL500, CL63, and CL65, and in the States as the CL550 and CL600, plus the two AMG variants. Plus the A- and B-class, which we don't get here at all, and the trim levels for the S-class are the same.


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## Torch (Mar 22, 2005)

I do not understand why Ford never sold this in Europe:








Ford Mustang

Instead they developed a car just for the european market:








Ford Capri - (this is the first and nicest looking model)

C'mon Ford, the Mustang was legend and a huge success since the release of the first generation! And why is Ford still refuses to sell them in Europe?! The car has a huge name and history, an thus evokes emotion, which is a very important factor for a sports car!


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

Who says they refuse?


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## Torch (Mar 22, 2005)

^^Wow didn't know that! You can still question what took them so long, but better late than never!


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## nerdly_dood (Mar 23, 2007)

Now granted, the last time Ford sold a four-cylinder Mustang, it was an utter abomination. That wasn't as much a Ford problem as it was a horrific decade in engine design, with the OPEC oil embargo making all sorts of panic about fuel economy before there was any sort of decent technology to actually put to good use, so small engines became more popular. Even worse were new federal regulations on emissions, which made it much harder to get any decent power out of even large V8s. Those combined to make cars from the 70s extremely weak.

As an example, the base engine in the 1970 Corvette produced 300 horsepower - quite a lot, even by today's standards - with an available upmarket engine producing 390 HP. But by 1975, the base engine only produced 165 horsepower, which in today's terms, is about as powerful as a boring base-engine midsize sedan, with upmarket engines (either V6's or turbo-fours) producing around 250. The 2012 Corvette produces anywhere from 430 to 638 horsepower.

Similarly, the base engine in the 1970 Chevrolet Vega produced 90 horsepower, which by today's standards is very low, but not unheard of - modern European engines are often even weaker. But the '75 Chevette, which replaced the Vega, had a base engine producing only 50 horsepower. I grew up in my mom's 1986 Chevette, which, Wikipedia having failed me, my Google-fu indicates produced 70 horsepower. By comparison, Chevrolet's current subcompact, the Sonic, produces (with either the base or upmarket engine) 138 horsepower.


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## LtBk (Jul 27, 2004)

Cars I want to see:
Alfa Roma
Peugeot
Renault
Citroen 
Skoda
Seat


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