# Where to live / Where not to live in ...



## musiccity (Jan 5, 2011)

^^

Most of the inner-city neighborhoods around downtown Nashville are the most dangerous and there are usually several shootings a night. Car Jackings, Muggings at gun point, and Armed Robberies are common.

The nicest parts of Nashville are West End, Green Hills, Forest Hills, and Belle Meade and they are located in South Central and South East Nashville.


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## xrtn2 (Jan 12, 2011)

No-go-areas in Governador Valadares Brazil

Population 265,000


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

musiccity said:


> ^^
> 
> Most of the inner-city neighborhoods around downtown Nashville are the most dangerous and there are usually several shootings a night. Car Jackings, Muggings at gun point, and Armed Robberies are common.


If this is common in many US cities, then probably ANY european city is a safe haven in comparison!


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## musiccity (Jan 5, 2011)

DiggerD21 said:


> If this is common in many US cities, then probably ANY european city is a safe haven in comparison!


Yeah, but thats only in the bad areas, the good areas are as safe as Europe.


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

The thing is: I don't know any bad area in europe which could compare with your description of a bad area.


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## musiccity (Jan 5, 2011)

DiggerD21 said:


> The thing is: I don't know any bad area in europe which could compare with your description of a bad area.


No where? Really? Well now my city sounds bad 


But that's what I see on the news, and I also check the crime map regularly to see what crime has been committed around my area.


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## Aaronj09 (Jan 7, 2009)

I did a similar map to yours (for Leeds)

Blue = very nice area
Green = nice area
Orange = bad area
Red = no-go area

And like yours, the areas that are not shaded are areas that are okay to live in but aren't very bad or good, just normal.










In general, avoid areas south of the river and the inner-city. Areas in the north and west of the city are generally more affluent and nicer to live in.


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## Ji-Ja-Jot (Jan 8, 2009)

I am happy to see so many people join. Thank you verry much 



musiccity said:


> No where? Really? Well now my city sounds bad


No. Your city sounds American 
There cannot be so many shootings in a German city, because Gangsters and Pseudo Gangsters cannot get a gun so easy. So in Hamburg stabbing is more common than shootings. And stabbing as "close combat" needs more "braveness". So there is less crime, because Pseudo Gangsters in Hamburg only talk about how tough they are, but often it is just hot air.


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## city_thing (May 25, 2006)

musiccity said:


> The areas within the red circles are no-go zones around Nashville, every where else is fine.


So basically _all_ of inner city Nashville is off limits?


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## erbse (Nov 8, 2006)

JiJa: Regarding your first post - it should be "America" all over, danke.


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## nicdel (May 13, 2011)

Berlin. (Layout looks kind of shitty, I know, sorry )











Green areas:

*City-West*: Former City centre of West Berlin; includes the famous boulevard and shopping street "Kurfürstendamm". 
Recently, the are has seen a significant boom and has become popular for (affluent) people to move in. 










Prenzlauer Berg: THE place to be at the moment for hip, "artsy-fartsy" Yuppies and young academic families. 
Expensive apartments and flats. Has seen high gentrification over the last decades. Very safe and livable


















*Friedrichshain*: The place to be for young, cool party people. Similar to Prenzlauer Berg, but with a higher percentage of singles.
A significant proportion of Berlin's famous Minimal clubs is located in the borough. Trendy and safe.











*Kreuzberg* (good parts of the borough):
It is one of the most famous and popular districts of Berlin, with many alternative pubs and bars.
Many inhabitants are left-wing oriented or green. Hence, it is definitely not a place for rich, conservative or "posh" people.
In Addition, the borough is supposed to have one of the largest Turkish and Kurdish diaspora communities out of Turkey.
However, thats an old stereotype and many Turks have moved out to other parts of Berlin, because of gentrification. 
The parts with a high concentration of Turks are the most "dangerous", btw. 


















*Southwestern Berlin *(Steglitz, Zehlendorf, Wilmersdorf):
residential and high quality of life. A lot of old people and families;
therefore its not recommendable for young people and students. 
No decent bars or clubs at all. However, it is very green, wealthy and extraordinarily safe. 

Steglitz:









Zehlendorf:









Wilmersdorf:









Red Areas:

*Neukölln*: Probably the most infamous and notorious borough of Germany regarding its problems with Middle Eastern immigrants and crime.
It is the most "crime-ridden" area of Berlin and has a high unemployment rate. 
A borough, where (white-) Germans make up less than 40% of the population,
and (white-) German children are practically non-existent in the schools and kindergardens... 
However, in its northernmost parts it becomes gentrificated and artsy, which means that the borough isn't as bad as its reputation. 


















*Wedding, Gesundbrunnen*: similar to Neukölln, but even more run-down. 
The area around Leopoldplatz is the hotspot of drug trafficking and can be dangerous at night. Anyways, there are some decent neighborhoods too, so its not a no-go area at all. 










*Marzahn, Hellersdorf*: a borough with many "Plattenbauten" and Commieblocks (social housings). 
A very depressing area in some parts with non existent nightlife and cultural attractions.
A lot of Neo-Nazis and lower-class Germans. 
Large communities of Russians, Kazakhs and Vietnamese people, who mostly live in the Commieblocks in the Eastern part of the borough. 
Kind of dangerous place for African or Turkish/Middle Eastern people due to brainless Neo-nazis.
Not as diverse and multicultural as West-Berlin areas. Stereotypical "Eastern German" district.


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

All of this is highly subjective, as it depends a great deal not only on the profile of the potential traveler/foreigner, but on who issues the *warnings* as well.


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## erbse (Nov 8, 2006)

Nicdel: You're completely exaggerating concerning Marzahn-Hellersdorf, mate. :| Loads of young people, students etc. flock in there as well, and the stereotype of Neo-Nazi East Germans is just completely... Worn out. *Check this article for instance*. _(Google translated)_


But I agree about the rest, that sums it up pretty well. There are rather few crime-ridden areas left in Berlin, it's becoming safer as we speak.


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## musiccity (Jan 5, 2011)

city_thing said:


> So basically _all_ of inner city Nashville is off limits?


1) I know my city 

2) I'm doing this based off European standards not American. Some of those areas aren't too bad for American standards but for European standards they're pretty bad.

3) Inner City areas are totally different in America than in Australia. Inner City areas in America are usually the poorest and most dangerous areas of the city. The only other country I know of that has this similar urban trend is South Africa.


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## Jayplay (Dec 8, 2007)

I think this is a great thread! But I do think we should have like a standard format for describing the cities? So they are quickly comparable and everyone gets a good image of it? Or is this too much work maybe? Don't know how long the first person worked on describing Hamburg..


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## the spliff fairy (Oct 21, 2002)

El_Greco said:


> I was there just yesterday and its still as horrible as ever - chavs, gangsta wannabes, junkies, general weirdos, dereliction and large police presence. Sure theyve got DLR and the new Arsenal development but its hardly a nice area. I think the yuppies that will be moving there are fooling themselves and Woolwich will just stay its good old self, a bit like Deptford of the The Tower fame.


yes, that's Deptford, and we're talking Woolwich. And I actually lived there, on the estates - tell me, did you actually see any crime?


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## DiggerD21 (Apr 22, 2004)

To give some stats for better comparison, here are some stats for some of the areas marked in red in Ji-Jas Hamburg map. The data is from 2010 tough

*Total criminal cases in Hamburg 2010: 224,775 (129 per 1,000 inhabitants)*
_Total criminal cases per 1,000 inhabitants in whole year of 2010_
St.Pauli: 735
Veddel: 201
Billstedt: 132
Wilhelmsburg: 121
Steilshoop: 109
Neugraben: 94
Allermöhe: 92
Heimfeld: 92

Worst district: Hamburg-Altstadt (city centre, shopping and tourist area): 4185
Best district: Altengamme: 19


*Total registered theft cases in Hamburg 2010: 102955 (59 per 1,000 inhabitants)*
_Registered theft cases per 1,000 inhabitants in whole year of 2010_
St.Pauli: 316 (note: This is the nightlife area. I can imagine lots of it is related to stealing unattended wardrobe etc.)
Veddel: 73
Billstedt: 59
Wilhelmsburg: 49
Steilshoop: 44
Neugraben: 43
Allermöhe: 42
Heimfeld: 41

Worst district: Hamburg-Altstadt (city centre): 2843
Best districts: Altengamme and Spadenland (basically two villages within the municipaluty: 6


*Total violence cases in Hamburg 2010: 8608 (5 per 1,000 inhabitants)*
_Registered violence cases per 1,000 inhabitants in whole year of 2010 (includes murder, rape, violent robbery, bodily harm, extreme sexual harassment, taking hostages, brawls..._
St.Pauli: 65
Veddel: 10
Billstedt:7
Wilhelmsburg: 6
Steilshoop: 6
Neugraben: 4
Allermöhe: 4
Heimfeld: 4

Worst district: Hamburg-Altstadt: 84 (there are two port-districts with much higher values, but in those almost nobody lives, so I don't count them)
Best district: Altengamme: 0


Source (in German)


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## Mr. Uncut (Jan 13, 2008)

^^ per year? im pretty sure that some areas of southern and south-eastern Dallas are able to reach that levels in a month or in even a shorter period! hno:


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## Manila-X (Jul 28, 2005)

*Manila*

Where to live.

The Makati area is the best option on where to live since Metro Manila's primary CBD is located here. But due to distance, real estate is very high and it is more expensive in areas near The CBD.










Other areas such as most parts of Quezon City, San Juan, Ortigas Area and Southern Metro Manila are also ideal places.










The northwestern part of Metro Manila including Tondo and The CAMANAVA area are definitely areas that should be avoided due to lower quality of life, high crime, pollution due to heavy industries, etc.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

musiccity said:


> 1) I know my city
> 
> 2) I'm doing this based off European standards not American. Some of those areas aren't too bad for American standards but for European standards they're pretty bad.
> 
> 3) Inner City areas are totally different in America than in Australia. *Inner City areas in America are usually the poorest and most dangerous areas of the city. The only other country I know of that has this similar urban trend is South Africa.*


Poor Area's with most crime in Belgian cities are ofthen the innercity districs close the wealthy city center... Ofcourse there are no real no-go area's execept for maybe the first one I wouldn't go wandering in if you aren't North African or Arabic looking.

1)









Trash on the streets:
http://g.co/maps/vdrgk


2)The redlight
http://g.co/maps/pw44d

3)

http://g.co/maps/mddg8
http://g.co/maps/rrgrz

4)

http://g.co/maps/e2rr7
http://g.co/maps/cdgeq


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

There are parts with high crime, but its usually amongst the people that live there, gangs fighting each other, drug trade etc. 

Unless you really stand out as a robbery target, (reading a map, looking lost, wearing an I love London tourist baseball cap etc  ) you would be very unlucky to attract trouble I think, even in the worst areas....


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## Ji-Ja-Jot (Jan 8, 2009)

musiccity said:


> Well I wasn't really thinking about the US when I made that post. It would be interesting to place the pampered "wannabe" gangsters you all are describing to me in Gugulethu in Cape Town and see how they fair.
> 
> When you visit and witness the problems of a Third World country, you really do find these problems back at home menial and trivial.


that's my oppinion, too. I really want to see Hamburger Wannabee-gangsters in a real Ghetto outside Germany, so they learn the hard way, how fucking lucky they are, to be allowed to live in Germany.
typical Hamburger "Youth-Gangsters" triying to rap how tough they are and how hard their life is: Note. The rapper Nate57 is even one of the *better* and *most authentic* rappers in Hamburg. Grown up in Karoviertel. what he claims it would be one of Hamburgs worst areas (I marked it blue for one of Hamburgs best areas. It was real poor and bad 20 Years ago but since the 90ies the Karoviertel is another proof, that *gentrification rocks*!)




Now imagine thoose guys in Johannisburg :lol:


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## Aaronj09 (Jan 7, 2009)

It's similar here too, a bunch of wannabe gangsters who like to shout abuse but once you go up to them they run away, and they are very weak on their own.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

wannebe gangsters can become real gangsters. Just look at the video's I posted of Brussels and think of that scum in the banlieus of french cities... They are not that harmless, they teach little kids bad things and when those kids grow up...

Edit: I must say that that vid from hamburg looks like a bunch of pussies compaired to what I see overhere.


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## Svartmetall (Aug 5, 2007)

Jonesy55 said:


> Really? Obviously there are areas which are not so great but I can't think of anywhere in any UK town or city that I know of which is bad enough to be considered a 'no-go' area for a regular citizen minding his own business. :dunno:


Parts of Northampton are rife with bored Chav gangs that love to harass people going about their business, whether threatening them if they don't give them money or just verbal abuse, it really does make it unpleasant - and this is in the town centre. In some suburbs (Bellinge or around Limehurst Square for example), like I said, ambulances refuse to go there due to bashings on false call outs. 

It's mindless thuggery that makes it "dangerous" for the average person in towns like Northampton.


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## Aaronj09 (Jan 7, 2009)

That's shocking. I walk through one of the most deprived areas of Leeds at night frequently but I've honestly never encountered trouble or felt scared or intimidated. Probably just luck though, but Northampton sounds seriously dodgy - kinda like it's opposite (Southampton)


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

Svartmetall said:


> Parts of Northampton are rife with bored Chav gangs that love to harass people going about their business, whether threatening them if they don't give them money or just verbal abuse, it really does make it unpleasant - and this is in the town centre. In some suburbs (Bellinge or around Limehurst Square for example), like I said, ambulances refuse to go there due to bashings on false call outs.
> 
> It's mindless thuggery that makes it "dangerous" for the average person in towns like Northampton.


Hmm, that does sound bad. I've never been to Northampton but i never imagined it to be a terrible place...


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## eklips (Mar 29, 2005)

Singidunum said:


> So strange. Especially considering it's the EU capital and a city visited by many tourists. Does this mean a tourist could get into a lot of trouble for going into those areas?
> 
> There is no such thing as a no-go area in Belgrade. I guess it's the relic of communism, the whole city is pretty much equal.


Honestly I see a lot of exageration in all of this. For example in the case of France the idea that there are areas where "the police doesn't go" is a complete lie. But it is so often repeated that people end believing it is true. 

One thing that is true though is that the police has a very bad reputation in some areas, mainly due to the fact that it has a history of acting very violently and for comitting unpunished (or barely) racist crimes. So when the police patrols these areas they will not be greeted with flowers, but there is no neighborhood here where the police "doesn't enter". I don't know much about Germany or Belgium, but I'm pretty sure it must be the same thing.


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## Ji-Ja-Jot (Jan 8, 2009)

there is no area in germany the police doesn't go. The type of people who claim that is shown in the wonderfull video i posted.


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

eklips said:


> Honestly I see a lot of exageration in all of this. For example in the case of France the idea that there are areas where "the police doesn't go" is a complete lie. But it is so often repeated that people end believing it is true.
> 
> One thing that is true though is that the police has a very bad reputation in some areas, mainly due to the fact that it has a history of acting very violently and for comitting unpunished (or barely) racist crimes. So when the police patrols these areas they will not be greeted with flowers, but there is no neighborhood here where the police "doesn't enter". I don't know much about Germany or Belgium, but I'm pretty sure it must be the same thing.


Have you watched some of the vids I posted about Brussels, some are in french...So easy to understand for you. It's not that they not enter...but are afraid to enter none the less... Also everyone in those districts is treadted with kid gloves in order not to disturb them :bash: Scum like those belong in prisons and nowhere else.


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## Orionol (Feb 13, 2009)

:lol:Hahahaha, you guys should see how the wannabee gangsters are here in Helsingborg. They try to be like Tony Montana or 2Pac, but everytime they do something wrong, an angry old swedish man yells at them, and then they run as pus*ys (afraid as hell), but they do this mostly to impress fjortisar(fjortisar is a swedish word for young girls that wears to much makeup and thinks that they are adult:nuts. Wannabe gangsters are a big joke here in Helsingborg, yet still they think that they are something big and cool. :bash:

Like Ji-Ja-Jot said, I would also really like to see them in real thug-city (Harlem etc.). They wouldnt even last for a day.:lol:


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## Ji-Ja-Jot (Jan 8, 2009)

i don't want to show only bad parts. Here one great stuff. During winter the Alster lake in the city of Hamburg is frozen and you have maybe one of the largest inner city open air iceskating aera in the world. Its always absolutly breathtaking to cross the lake from one side to the other by feet. It is the big lake in the center of the map I posted in my second comment here, with mostly blue-areas around it.
















from above it looks like ants on a frozen lake


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## fbeavis (Feb 8, 2012)

The talk of hoods in European cities makes me laugh. There's nothing like this (for example) in Western Euorpe:


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## Occit (Jul 24, 2005)

*CARACAS*

Where to live: Green one districts, where not to live: the rest:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## Spookvlieger (Jul 10, 2009)

fbeavis said:


> The talk of hoods in European cities makes me laugh. There's nothing like this (for example) in Western Euorpe:


How is decay a ghetto? It's Detroit duh and yes we have decaying cities in Europe that went down with together with the steel industry.


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## aaabbbccc (Mar 8, 2009)

Casablanca Morocco very simple west side good east side bad


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## Copperknickers (May 15, 2011)

Jonesy55 said:


> Really? Obviously there are areas which are not so great but I can't think of anywhere in any UK town or city that I know of which is bad enough to be considered a 'no-go' area for a regular citizen minding his own business. :dunno:


You've obviously never been to Glasgow. Certainly for a young male, you would be in serious risk of being violently attacked if you went through a gang area at the weekend in the dark. Obviously there are a lot of precautions you can take, but in the worst case scenario, say a South Asian, rich, unfit male at 1.00 in the morning in the centre of a major suburb, you are pretty much guaranteed to get some kind of harassment, and 1 time out of 10 you risk being attacked. Having said this, I know of Brazilians who have come to the UK and have not ventured outdoors once because they are afraid they will be kidnapped if they go out after dark without a bodyguard. It's not quite that bad. Glasgow is actually more violent than some developing world cities such as Cape Town and Detroit.


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## Jonesy55 (Jul 30, 2004)

I have been to Glasgow but admittedly I don't know it well. I have spent considerable time in some of the worst areas of greater Manchester, Merseyside, Birmingham and London and I never found anywhere bad enough to be considered 'no-go'

If the worst parts of Glasgow are a lot worse than these places then maybe you are right.


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## Slartibartfas (Aug 15, 2006)

I don't think there are any no-go areas in Vienna. But there are definitely better and worse areas. This map of the unemployment 
rate in different neighbourhoods gives a rough idea of the better locations and the not so good ones (yellow to red: good):










It is not giving the whole picture however. The Guertel area which features badl there is a night life hot spot and in the cheaper old 
buildings quite a few students can be found. The 16th district an the 2nd district are up and coming but still have some gritty looking
corners, but then you find trendy shops or bars that don't quite fit to a desperate place. Pretty much all inner districts are 
expensive but worth it, especially the 7th and the 6th. 

If you want to see workers and immigrant districts your best choice is the pedestrian zone Favoritenstraße in the 10th district. 
Its a well functioning shopping street, but specialized on the discount chains mixed with the ever present big chains. If you hear of 
stabbings, its happening there  But don't worry, these are normally conflicts among locals late at night after too many beer 
usually. I have never witnessed something like that. 

Less exciting but definitely as proletarian is the 11th district. Have a walk along Simmeringer Hauptstraße to get a feeling for what 
I mean. Its on the way to the vast central cemetery so actually quite some tourists are passing through, below street level however 
in the subway.


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## Eduardo L. Ramirez (Jul 24, 2008)

Ji-Ja-Jot said:


>



Here are some native OGs from St. Ingbert (Mitte)


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## Mr. B (Feb 24, 2007)

Copperknickers said:


> You've obviously never been to Glasgow. Certainly for a young male, you would be in serious risk of being violently attacked if you went through a gang area at the weekend in the dark. Obviously there are a lot of precautions you can take, but in the worst case scenario, say a South Asian, rich, unfit male at 1.00 in the morning in the centre of a major suburb, you are pretty much guaranteed to get some kind of harassment, and 1 time out of 10 you risk being attacked. Having said this, I know of Brazilians who have come to the UK and have not ventured outdoors once because they are afraid they will be kidnapped if they go out after dark without a bodyguard. It's not quite that bad. Glasgow is actually more violent than some developing world cities such as Cape Town and Detroit.


What on earth are you on about?! I've lived in Glasgow for years and never been harassed never mind attacked. I have friends who are Asian and have never had anything bad happen to them. There is a reputation from previous decades, but that is a seriously outdated mindset you have taken up. Have you even been to Glasgow? Obviously not, otherwise you would see that the situation you have described is nonsense!


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## BringMe (May 7, 2011)

This thread reminds me this video!


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## Ji-Ja-Jot (Jan 8, 2009)

wasn't there a documentary:
MacIntyre Undercover in Brixton?

(BTW: I pimped the startcomment a bit)


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## qwert0 (Feb 20, 2012)

I wouldn't recommend living in most of inner south east London (let's say from London Bridge to Woolwich, and including areas such as Peckham, Lewisham, etc. further south), either. Many of these areas are very rough by Western standards.


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## Rev Stickleback (Jun 23, 2009)

fbeavis said:


> The talk of hoods in European cities makes me laugh. There's nothing like this (for example) in Western Euorpe:


the tragic thing there is that you can tell it's not just a collection of shots of boarded-up low-cost high-rise blocks. Many of those buildings were clearly once affluent places, with some quite grand buildings now derelict.


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## Ji-Ja-Jot (Jan 8, 2009)

Some new crime numbers for Hamburgs unlivable quarter St.Pauli. Crime overall rised 2011 7%









translation:
1. Murder (19)
2. aggravated assult (1142)
3. bodily harm (2192)
4. theft out of cars (540)
5. car theft (37)
6. other theft (7078)
7. housebraking (75)
8 robbery (348)
9 damage to property (884)
10 Drugs (780)

St. Pauli has 28.000 inhabitants.


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

19 murders for 28.000 inhabitants? That is like 68 per 100.000 inhabitants! Venezuela-level.

Why don't they dismantle the place or adopt a zero-tolerance policy?


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## musiccity (Jan 5, 2011)

Honestly, you Europeans need to realize how fortunate you are to live where you are living instead of trying to make your cities sound as bad as possible. It sometimes seems to me that some SSC users think a low crime rate = boring and try to make their cities out as bad as they possibly can. It's almost humorous and also naive. If you lived in a city like Johannesburg or Detroit you would be singing a completely different tune.

As I said earlier in this thread, I would like to see someone from Glasgow or Hamburg move to Soweto or Caracas and see what real crime is and how they fare.


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## Letniczka (Feb 4, 2007)

@musiccity

Disagree. Everything is relative, also style of life, hence there is no "international standard", and only my local one. If you're poor a loss of $10 will make you cry, if rich, you'll laugh if you lose $1,000,000 on stock market. Chinese are more happy than Japanese are, though the former earn less than 10 p.c. islanders' money.


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## Suburbanist (Dec 25, 2009)

musiccity said:


> Honestly, you Europeans need to realize how fortunate you are to live where you are living instead of trying to make your cities sound as bad as possible. It sometimes seems to me that some SSC users think a low crime rate = boring and try to make their cities out as bad as they possibly can. It's almost humorous and also naive. If you lived in a city like Johannesburg or Detroit you would be singing a completely different tune.
> 
> As I said earlier in this thread, I would like to see someone from Glasgow or Hamburg move to Soweto or Caracas and see what real crime is and how they fare.


That rogue militias rape people by the thousands, daily, in Eastern DRC doesn't make it right to pickpocket my wallet or break into my car in Trømso, Norway.

This being said, there are indeed a part of SSC (and the demographic it represents in the society) that romanticize Third World aspects of life like street crime, extensive prostitution, gangs, overall disrespect for laws and regulations because they had never been in a position to deal with all their negative impact.

You will easily find people of a certain age who'll say that East London was better in the 1980s because you had to be "street smart" to go there and "rich kids" didn't venture in the area. Likewise, there are some people moaning that Times Square is "a big Disneyland tourist trap", bitching all over the "bland chain stores" that took over the place and trying to pretend the epidemic of crimes and drugs over there in the 1980s and 1990s was good because it kept the place "rough" and with "character". A forumer once wrote (in 2010, don't remember the topic) that it would be better to have more muggings and some robberies there if that drove out all the "obnoxious tourists" from Times Square so that they could "reclaim the area for people who just don't fit in the overall oppressive ways of a consumerism-dominated society". I was shocked.


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## Ji-Ja-Jot (Jan 8, 2009)

Suburbanist said:


> 19 murders for 28.000 inhabitants? That is like 68 per 100.000 inhabitants! Venezuela-level.
> 
> Why don't they dismantle the place or adopt a zero-tolerance policy?


Its not so easy to "dismantle".
the murder-rate is high there, because in St.Pauli is the Reeperbahn, a red light, tourist and party hot-spot. Who controls this area gets rich. During the 90ies after the collaps of the iron curtain the quarter was invaded by Albanian mafia, which pulled back the turkish mafia. After that large parts of ther quarter belonged to guy called "Albaner-Willi". After he was cought and got shot to death during a stay in Ablania, the Albanians lost much influence in the quarter. Other main players like "Negerkalle"(_******-kalle_) have ben shot, too by someone. Field was open for the next idiots to go in. Today most of the quarter is controled by Hells Angels. This may be over in some years, cause Russian Mafia is highly interested in the redlight szene.

There will be always murder there, not because the quarter is a gettho, it's because a fight for money and control and additionally drunk people stab each other.

But gentrification sets in. In 10-15 Years it will be perhaps on of Hamburgs nicest quarters.


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## ZevenZonden (Oct 5, 2010)

fbeavis said:


> The talk of hoods in European cities makes me laugh. There's nothing like this (for example) in Western Euorpe:


Close....

Brussels, Belgium





Naples, Italy





And you haven't seen parts of Eastern Europe, or the Banlieues outside of French cities like Paris, Charleroi in Belgium, etc.


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## DanielFigFoz (Mar 10, 2007)

Unless you're a member of a gang I can't really think of any no-go areas in London, sure some areas are worse than others but as long as I was minding my own business I wouldn't really be worried anywhere in London, except maybe for in alleyways in some places


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## henrique42 (Dec 5, 2011)

''@musiccity

Disagree. Everything is relative, also style of life, hence there is no "international standard", and only my local one. 

-----------
So if you can't buy your steak, or your wallet is stolen, you feel as bad as an hungry african, whose village is burned down?
what a bullshit nonsense

(BTW just like that ''Ghetto'' in Brussels....the only thing that reminds a ghetto are some black guys, I suppose you all deserve a trip to some parts of the world to loose some of that narrow minded, bourgeois, limited thinking)


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## bayviews (Mar 3, 2006)

the spliff fairy said:


> Hey, Woolwich has changed alot- I lived there for 3 years until last year. It's almost eerily quiet now even on the estates, basically what was for decades a working class White (only) district has been recently inundated with middle class African immigrants. Crime has evaporated, schools have shot up the rankings and a whole bevy of community centres and churches have set up shop. I never saw trouble there.


Very good points & worth repeating! This is the type of urban immigrant transformation that puts the traditional stereotypes to shame!


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## jonjrs (May 11, 2010)

Romanticizing crime and violence is ridiculous. It hinders progress for inner city neighborhoods that desperately need help to get back on their feet. I've lived in the Caribbean and in the US of A and having to deal with some jerk that's trying to start a fight or rob you or perhaps kill you is not fun at all. What NYC did when Giuliani was around was overall good for the city. I go around the different boroughs at any time of day or night with no problems whatsoever. If they want drama in Midtown, go to the housing projects in Chelsea or go down to the Lower East Side, they'll change their minds right away. After traveling around Europe a bit, the only place that I felt some sort of trouble was in Amsterdam, which was limited to a bunch of young adults who were looking to start trouble. Ah, Paris as well in the area near the Moulin Rouge, but it was a bunch of young adults with energy and nothing to do. Besides that, Europe is safe in my eyes.


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